Islands Trust Council community information meeting, March 8, 2022

[0:00:21] Voice 32: Hello Peter and Tahira. Hello.

[0:00:27] Voice 32: We're good to go.

[0:00:33] Trustee Luckham: Okay we're good to go. So thanks everybody. Sorry

[0:00:37] Trustee Luckham: about the delay. We had a bit of a technology issue here but we've recovered from that.

[0:00:44] Trustee Luckham: So anyway welcome everybody. This is the Trust Council Town Hall and Delegations for this

[0:00:51] Trustee Luckham: this quarter's, spring quarter's Trust Council meeting.

[0:00:55] Trustee Luckham: My name is Peter Luckham, elected on Thetis Island,

[0:00:59] Trustee Luckham: which is in Laiac and Penelope territory,

[0:01:02] Trustee Luckham: and very happy to be here today in Nanaimo, in Snuneymo territory,

[0:01:07] Trustee Luckham: and want to acknowledge a couple of things.

[0:01:10] Trustee Luckham: This is International Women's Day, getting a little late in the day here today,

[0:01:15] Trustee Luckham: but want to recognize the women on this council

[0:01:18] Trustee Luckham: and thank you for your work and contribution,

[0:01:20] Trustee Luckham: And, of course, all the women everywhere for their contribution in our society.

[0:01:25] Trustee Luckham: But while I'm recognizing First Nations and the Sunaymo people in this particular area, but all the people, Coast Salish people, want to recognize the women of the Coast Salish communities for all of the support and husbandry.

[0:01:41] Trustee Luckham: That's a weird word.

[0:01:42] Trustee Luckham: But all of that support that they provide to their community and their families and all of us.

[0:01:49] Trustee Luckham: And of course, living here in Coastal territory is an amazing thing, a wonderful place to be.

[0:01:55] Trustee Luckham: And I am so thankful to be here for the rich history and culture that's here for us to access if we just reach out and ask or inquire.

[0:02:05] Trustee Luckham: There's so much to learn, particularly around Aboriginal knowledge and local knowledge here that has been accumulating since for time immemorial.

[0:02:16] Trustee Luckham: So we're grateful to be here.

[0:02:18] Trustee Luckham: this is uh delegations and town halls and uh i just want to quickly go around the room and

[0:02:25] Trustee Luckham: the electronic environment to let everybody know who is here and i started at that side

[0:02:30] Trustee Luckham: of the room earlier so i'm going to start on the left hand side here and i'll discuss trustees to

[0:02:35] Trustee Luckham: just go around the room here and introduce yourselves and i'll start with lee middleton

[0:02:39] Trustee Luckham: down in the corner there thank

[0:02:41] Trustee Middleton: you chair and lee middleton from saturn island canine dodds

[0:02:46] Voice 9: main island uh

[0:02:49] Voice 21: ben mcconkey status or bender

[0:02:52] Voice 7: jane wolverton galliano island yes laura beshaken

[0:03:04] Voice 14: denman island sewell and fast uh nuklelequem or kolakom bowen island dan

[0:03:16] Trustee Rogers: rogers uh keats island

[0:03:17] Trustee Rogers: and outcatsum house sound laura

[0:03:22] Voice 12: patrick salt spring kate louise stamford chaultowich in

[0:03:28] Voice 12: In Alcatsum, Howe Sound.

[0:03:32] Trustee Grove: Peter Grove, Salt Spring.

[0:03:37] Trustee Grove: Steve Wright, South

[0:03:38] Voice 38: Bender, Staeus.

[0:03:40] Voice 38: Keith Leihreit, Gabriel Island.

[0:03:42] Voice 38: It's a name with character.

[0:03:45] Voice 19: Michael Kale, Bowen Island.

[0:03:50] Voice 19: David Marwood, Maine Island.

[0:03:54] Trustee Critchley: David Critchley, Denman Island.

[0:03:56] Trustee Critchley: Kleistai Ich.

[0:04:01] Trustee Luckham: A very good welcome, trustees.

[0:04:03] Trustee Luckham: I just want to give a shout out.

[0:04:04] Trustee Luckham: And if you can give a wave on the virtual world there,

[0:04:07] Trustee Luckham: I recognize Trustee Johnson, Mesquite Island.

[0:04:10] Trustee Luckham: Island, Tim Peterson, also on Leskete, and

[0:04:17] Voice 33: Trustee

[0:04:19] Trustee Luckham: Scott

[0:04:21] Trustee Luckham: Colburn on Gabriola, and Tahira Rockefeller on Galliano,

[0:04:27] Trustee Luckham: and Trustee Deb Morrison on Pender Island.

[0:04:35] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[0:04:35] Trustee Morrison: And just to acknowledge that I live on Stayus

[0:04:39] Trustee Morrison: in Los Angeles Territory.

[0:04:40] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[0:04:42] Trustee Luckham: Brilliant.

[0:04:42] Trustee Luckham: Brilliant. And just to hand on some regrets, trustees that are not here with us this evening

[0:04:48] Trustee Luckham: are Alex Allen from Hornby Island, Grant Scott, also from Hornby Island, and Cameron Thorne from

[0:04:55] Trustee Luckham: South Pender. So if I've missed anybody, apologies for that. So let us begin. We have a number of

[0:05:03] Trustee Luckham: delegates today, starting with Jeffrey Green, and I'll ask that he be promoted. And we are

[0:05:12] Trustee Luckham: 10 minutes for each of the delegates and three minutes maximum for the public comment period.

[0:05:18] Trustee Luckham: And we will just take a show of hands later on when we get that far. But those that have registered

[0:05:23] Trustee Luckham: as delegates, you'll get the first opportunity. And just ask you all to be kind and respectful

[0:05:31] Trustee Luckham: of trust counsel here and our staff, but also your friends and neighbors at home that are

[0:05:37] Trustee Luckham: listening and watching this evening. So Jeffrey Green, sir, over to you.

[0:05:43] Voice 44: Thank you. I seem to be having a little bit of internet trouble. So if I cut out, please,

[0:05:50] Voice 44: maybe just wave and let me know. Yeah, so I'm here today representing approximately 470

[0:05:59] Voice 44: signatories to petition to the trust on the need to modify the draft policy bylaw, which of course,

[0:06:05] Voice 44: we're going to be doing over the next couple of months and throughout the remainder of the

[0:06:09] Voice 44: presentation when i use the term we am referring to those signatories several of the points in our

[0:06:15] Voice 44: presentation are applicable to the upcoming draft budget and we would ask that you consider some of

[0:06:21] Voice 44: these as you deliberate the budget over the next two days and the chair luckman just said in the

[0:06:28] Voice 44: past trustees have reminded us that public input needs to be positive and that residents and the

[0:06:34] Voice 44: trustees need to listen carefully to each other and learn from each other and in that spirit we're

[0:06:41] Voice 44: asking you to listen carefully to our concerns as well as our suggestions and in future public

[0:06:47] Voice 44: forums we would really welcome the opportunity to have respectful in-person dialogue between

[0:06:53] Voice 44: the trustees and the residents as well as an opportunity to speak to improvements and discuss

[0:06:59] Voice 44: discuss changes based on factual information so next slide please um so the petition uh this

[0:07:08] Voice 44: really summarizes how the petition began and grew it started with a review of the draft policy by a

[0:07:15] Voice 44: group of us on North Pender and it grew from there and while our review of the draft policy did

[0:07:23] Voice 44: identify some substantial changes that we'd like to see in terms of additions and bans and

[0:07:30] Voice 44: restrictions. We also recognize that were some very positive changes, most notably the general

[0:07:37] Voice 44: principles relating to reconciliation with Indigenous people, affordable housing and

[0:07:42] Voice 44: climate change. And as of today, we don't have 301 signatories, we have 471. Next slide, please.

[0:07:51] Voice 44: So I'm going to spend most of my time today focusing on the first four points, but these are the eight major points in the petition speaks to.

[0:08:05] Voice 44: Further details and recommendations are provided with the petition as well as an accompanying longer report.

[0:08:12] Voice 44: So the first point I'd like to speak to is it's clear that the trust is seeking to expand its regulatory and geographic scope.

[0:08:22] Voice 44: and it's not to say that we're totally against that but before the trust pursues these

[0:08:29] Voice 44: we want the trust to focus on its core mandate as as per the trust act and do that well and that's

[0:08:36] Voice 44: mainly land use planning development permitting associated by law enforcement cooperation with

[0:08:43] Voice 44: other governments and of course the conservancy and our recommendation is before you proceed with

[0:08:49] Voice 44: changes and legislative authority and scope, you need to really explain and justify this to the

[0:08:56] Voice 44: residents and meaningfully discuss this with us. And as we note later, there can be substantial

[0:09:01] Voice 44: costs associated with these changes, so it's important that you do involve the residents.

[0:09:07] Voice 44: Our second point on the slide is that some of the changes in the trust authority,

[0:09:11] Voice 44: as well as some studies and programs, duplicate that of the federal and provincial governments,

[0:09:18] Voice 44: as well as some Indigenous groups.

[0:09:21] Voice 44: And of concern, not just because of costs and duplication,

[0:09:25] Voice 44: but this adds unnecessarily to an already complex regulatory

[0:09:29] Voice 44: and research regime in the internal ocean of British Columbia.

[0:09:36] Voice 44: And we believe that compared to several provincial and federal agencies,

[0:09:40] Voice 44: this is no insult to the staff, but the Trust simply does not have

[0:09:43] Voice 44: have the expertise to plan and undertake the most most environmental and socio-economic research

[0:09:49] Voice 44: nor do you have internal capacity for independent rigorous peer review of that work and we strongly

[0:09:57] Voice 44: question if all of the past current proposed studies programs and new staff positions were

[0:10:02] Voice 44: or are necessary in the trust fulfilling its mandate namely preserving and protecting the

[0:10:08] Voice 44: ecosystems islands that we cherish and the and as the trust act said it's for the benefits of

[0:10:15] Voice 44: the residents of the trust area and british columbians in general and i think that's a

[0:10:19] Voice 44: really important thing to keep in mind for all of us and on our recommendation on this point

[0:10:24] Voice 44: is that the trust needs to provide a detailed rationale for each study each program and each

[0:10:30] Voice 44: new hiring of staff within the trust particularly where it duplicates that of another government

[0:10:36] Voice 44: And most importantly, the trust needs to assess the effectiveness of these initiatives and performance targets and assessments, which are a typical part of the industry I worked in, with appropriate adjustments, need to be a normal part of your operations.

[0:10:53] Voice 44: So the third point regarding increased costs, all of these changes, be they regulatory authority or studies or programs or new staff, it costs money.

[0:11:04] Voice 44: And these increased costs, even if they're initially covered by grants from other governments, and we've heard the trust say this many times, will still necessitate long-term increases in your budget, as well as the tax levies that are, you know, tax levies on the property owners and businesses on the islands.

[0:11:26] Voice 44: And it's not just your levy.

[0:11:28] Voice 44: As other governments give grants, they increase their taxes as well.

[0:11:32] Voice 44: So our recommendation to you is that the trust needs to consider the probable future costs of each of the proposed changes in the draft policy, as well as the impacts of these changes on future annual budgets and tax levies.

[0:11:48] Voice 44: And that for residents to truly participate in the discussion of the draft policy, we need to understand the cost implications of what you're suggesting.

[0:11:59] Voice 44: It's a very expanding document, and we are quite concerned that this is going to result in heavily increased costs within the trust and then on tax levies.

[0:12:10] Voice 44: Our fourth point is that the object of the Trust Act speaks both to protection and preservation of the environment, but it also speaks to benefits to residents, be they Indigenous or non-Indigenous people.

[0:12:21] Voice 44: And yet, throughout the draft policy bylaw, residents are conspicuously not mentioned, or not mentioned closest to last in a long list of groups in relation to statements of purpose, commitments, directive, and cooperation policies.

[0:12:38] Voice 44: And it's our recommendation to the trust that you need to communicate with and engage Indigenous and non-Indigenous residents in the trust area in a proactive, open and transparent manner throughout the revision of the policy.

[0:12:52] Voice 44: And honestly, some of the, you know, the question and answer period did not lead us into thinking that is the way this is going to go.

[0:13:02] Voice 44: So we really have to open up and have good discussion.

[0:13:06] Voice 44: And resident input really needs to receive equal or even greater weight than non-governmental organizations, many who exist outside the trust area and the general public.

[0:13:20] Voice 44: The last four points in the slide I think are fairly self-explanatory. I'm not going to spend much time on them.

[0:13:25] Voice 44: We want the trust to explain and justify each of the proposed restrictions and bans using credible science.

[0:13:32] Voice 44: And just as a good example, and this came up in the Q&A call last week, is that the trust claims that energy demands and environmental costs justified the proposed ban on desalinization plants and equipment.

[0:13:51] Voice 44: And if you read peer-reviewed current science, neither of these stand up to that science.

[0:13:59] Voice 44: The draft policy also barely mentions forest fire risk and management, even though fire, if it were to occur, is a huge threat to our islands, the ecosystems across our islands and our residents, and the housing infrastructure.

[0:14:15] Voice 44: And this is something that really has to be addressed in the policy.

[0:14:19] Voice 44: The policy also is very inconsistent in how it speaks to specific actions.

[0:14:24] Voice 44: and as an example um there are numerous actions identified in relation to the bylaws that affect

[0:14:33] Voice 44: marine foreshore i

[0:14:34] Trustee Critchley: wouldn't mind i wouldn't mind um

[0:14:38] Voice 44: sorry is my time up uh

[0:14:42] Trustee Luckham: no somebody was

[0:14:44] Trustee Luckham: jumping in there you've got another minute remaining go ahead

[0:14:48] Voice 44: okay but they're because

[0:14:51] Voice 44: conspicuously absent for climate change and housing affordability.

[0:14:55] Voice 44: And lastly, the document needs major improvements in terms of a rigorous edit,

[0:15:00] Voice 44: the addition of a glossary, and consistent use of defined terms.

[0:15:04] Voice 44: So to close, on behalf of nearly 500 signatories to the position,

[0:15:09] Voice 44: we ask the trust and its staff to carefully consider the public input it's received to date,

[0:15:14] Voice 44: including our petition and the company report.

[0:15:17] Voice 44: report. And as importantly, we stress to the trust and its staff that you need to commit to

[0:15:23] Voice 44: making substantial changes to the draft policy bylaw going forward. We ask you to listen carefully

[0:15:30] Voice 44: to us as you ask us to listen to you and learn from upcoming public input and respond to that

[0:15:36] Voice 44: input meaningfully. And please take the time to meaningfully consider and incorporate this public

[0:15:41] Voice 44: input. The proposal to start writing on a draft within a week with stopping the public input

[0:15:48] Voice 44: just seems a bit rushed. Thank you very much.

[0:15:52] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, Mr. Green. I appreciate the

[0:15:55] Trustee Luckham: slideshow and the quality of your presentation and keeping us on time. So thank you very much.

[0:16:01] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to go next to David Dunnison regarding biodiversity status and balancing priorities in

[0:16:07] Trustee Luckham: in the draft new policy statement.

[0:16:10] Trustee Luckham: So David Donison, are you with us?

[0:16:29] Voice 34: Yes, I am.

[0:16:30] Voice 34: And thank you, Chair Luckin.

[0:16:33] Voice 34: Thank you for actually summarizing my presentation nicely.

[0:16:37] Voice 34: And thank you, trustees.

[0:16:39] Voice 34: Today, I'd like to talk with you about biodiversity

[0:16:41] Voice 34: in the Islands Trust Area.

[0:16:45] Voice 34: And are my slides up?

[0:16:48] Voice 34: Yes, they are.

[0:16:49] Voice 34: Here's the first one.

[0:16:50] Voice 34: Next slide, please.

[0:16:51] Voice 34: please. Yeah,

[0:16:58] Trustee Luckham: there you go.

[0:16:58] Voice 34: Perfect. Thank you. Okay. This presentation was stimulated

[0:17:03] Voice 34: up concerns raised by three recent Islands Trust initiatives. The first initiative was

[0:17:08] Voice 34: a draft new policy statement. The second initiative was a talking points for trustees memo on

[0:17:13] Voice 34: that statement that you can see quoted here. And the third initiative was a recent 2022-2023

[0:17:19] Voice 34: budget survey. In the lead-in to question six of that survey, the following statement is made.

[0:17:26] Voice 34: Ecosystems of the island's trust area contain some of the highest levels of biodiversity in

[0:17:30] Voice 34: British Columbia. These three initiatives have extensive implication. The draft new policy could

[0:17:36] Voice 34: guide us for decades, while the budget survey has direct and immediate financial consequence.

[0:17:42] Voice 34: Next slide, please. As I read each of these initiatives, I wondered if these assertions

[0:17:49] Voice 34: of high and exceptional biodiversity were defensible by fact or by theory. Using iNaturalist,

[0:17:56] Voice 34: I have identified and recorded many hundreds of species on Salt Spring and Galliano,

[0:18:01] Voice 34: including a number of first observations of endangered species. But I've been confounded

[0:18:06] Voice 34: by the fact that a number of plants common to the CDF zone are absent or largely absent from

[0:18:11] Voice 34: our islands. These missing plants are not endangered, but they are scarce here as proverbial

[0:18:17] Voice 34: Henstein. Next slide, please. I understand that ecologists regard this 1967 theory as one of the

[0:18:34] Voice 34: most important, if not the foundational law of ecology. Larger landmasses have higher biodiversity

[0:18:39] Voice 34: than smaller landmasses. Islands have lower biodiversity. Next slide, please. This slide

[0:18:50] Voice 34: has been included because of how well this particular diagram communicates this foundational

[0:18:54] Voice 34: law of ecology. And it's notable this particular application, which has very little relation to

[0:19:01] Voice 34: the Islands Trust, but was for microbiota in sheep lungs. And merely, again, to illustrate

[0:19:06] Voice 34: there are few laws of the living world that appear to be as broadly applicable as this one.

[0:19:12] Voice 34: Next slide, please. Nature Conservancy of Canada regards this study as its most ambitious

[0:19:19] Voice 34: conservation assessment to date. And its partner organization, Nature Serve Canada, features this

[0:19:26] Voice 34: this study in their 2021 annual report. On an overall ranking basis, the study determined that

[0:19:32] Voice 34: the Islands Trust ranked 65th out of 77 ecoregions across southern Canada. Next slide, please.

[0:19:41] Voice 34: In this study of national biodiversity, the Islands Trust area, as part of the Georgia-Puget

[0:19:46] Voice 34: Basin ecoregion, ranked 73rd for biodiversity out of 77 ecoregions across southern Canada,

[0:19:53] Voice 34: and ranked ahead of only the cascade ranges for biodiversity among ecoregions that were assessed

[0:19:58] Voice 34: in BC. Next slide, please. We often hear about the CDF zone when discussing the Islands Trust.

[0:20:07] Voice 34: The purpose of this slide is to illustrate the Georgia Puget Basin ecoregion,

[0:20:11] Voice 34: and the trust area is at the very heart of that ecoregion. Mention of this ecoregion is included

[0:20:18] Voice 34: in the current policy statement. It's also included in many management plans for our protected areas

[0:20:23] Voice 34: throughout these islands. But that mention, unfortunately, appears to have been removed

[0:20:28] Voice 34: from the new draft policy statement. This ecoregion is part of the Canadian ecological framework.

[0:20:34] Voice 34: The federal ministry issued a recommendation that Canadian ecoregions be the basis for

[0:20:39] Voice 34: guiding conservation planning across the country by 2020, some two years ago. Notably, that same

[0:20:46] Voice 34: federal ministry is providing over $640,000 in funding to the Islands Trust. If money speaks,

[0:20:53] Voice 34: these are clearly a lot of reasons to listen. Next slide, please. Introduced by Norman Myers

[0:21:00] Voice 34: of Oxford in 1988, Hotspot Strategy is the third piece of foundational research cited in today's

[0:21:05] Voice 34: presentation. Canada and British Columbia have remarkable biodiversity, remarkable for a temperate

[0:21:12] Voice 34: climate. Unremarkable, however, in a global context. There are no biodiversity hotspots in Canada.

[0:21:20] Voice 34: According to data from the UN, in terms of biodiversity, Canada ranks 63rd in the world

[0:21:26] Voice 34: out of 239 countries, just behind Georgia and Mozambique, and just ahead of Kyrgyzstan and

[0:21:31] Voice 34: Bulgaria. Brazil, by contrast, has almost 10 times as many species of vascular plants alone.

[0:21:38] Voice 34: As beautiful as our islands are, we simply don't meet the qualifications for exceptional

[0:21:42] Voice 34: biodiversity. Next slide, please. This biodiversity discussion today is not to suggest that we should

[0:21:50] Voice 34: not worry about our biodiversity or that we should not protect it. The point of this presentation is

[0:21:55] Voice 34: is to consider the problems we actually face

[0:21:57] Voice 34: and what data it is that we are relying upon.

[0:22:00] Voice 34: It's hard to formulate effective policy

[0:22:02] Voice 34: based upon flawed concept or a bad data set.

[0:22:06] Voice 34: Cigarette smoking can kill you.

[0:22:07] Voice 34: That is clearly not the urgent problem

[0:22:09] Voice 34: shown in this picture.

[0:22:11] Voice 34: We have to ask ourselves hard questions

[0:22:13] Voice 34: about the true nature of our needs

[0:22:15] Voice 34: in the honest trust theory

[0:22:16] Voice 34: and not be distracted by unrealistic

[0:22:18] Voice 34: or unsupportable hyperbole.

[0:22:20] Voice 34: Next slide, please.

[0:22:23] Voice 34: Are there concerns about our environment?

[0:22:25] Voice 34: environment? Should we be concerned about our environment? Absolutely. There are reasons

[0:22:30] Voice 34: to be concerned and absolutely we should be concerned about our environment. Next slide

[0:22:34] Voice 34: please. The images here illustrate significant concerns to our environment and to our biodiversity.

[0:22:45] Voice 34: Two of these represent the largest current sources of ongoing environmental damage. And

[0:22:50] Voice 34: the third slide illustrates what may be the single largest risk to our environment within

[0:22:54] Voice 34: than the trust area.

[0:22:55] Voice 34: Now to the Islands Trust credit, two of these issues,

[0:22:58] Voice 34: wildfire risk and abandoned boats,

[0:23:00] Voice 34: have been proposed for adoption

[0:23:01] Voice 34: into the new draft policy statement for the first time.

[0:23:05] Voice 34: Next slide, please.

[0:23:10] Voice 34: Wildfire can rapidly become catastrophic.

[0:23:13] Voice 34: Recently, I attended an informational presentation

[0:23:16] Voice 34: about our environmental concerns on the islands,

[0:23:18] Voice 34: where one of the presenters suggested

[0:23:19] Voice 34: that because we don't get as many lightning strikes

[0:23:21] Voice 34: as they do in the interior of BC,

[0:23:24] Voice 34: sea, that we needn't worry about wildfire on our islands. Now, that is not what Smokey says.

[0:23:30] Voice 34: And there's little evidence, for example, that the Lytton fire was a result of a lightning strike.

[0:23:35] Voice 34: Next slide, please. In 2015, the Times columnist in Victoria published a story

[0:23:43] Voice 34: headlined, Gulf Islands Deer Population at Crisis Level. Yet, unfortunately, we still haven't

[0:23:49] Voice 34: addressed this problem meaningfully some seven years later. Next slide, please. On this slide

[0:23:59] Voice 34: of recommendations, there are three images. These images are all representative of pollution from

[0:24:03] Voice 34: abandoned and derelict vessels. The sailboat keel on the upper left, a tire from one of the sea

[0:24:09] Voice 34: shanties that populate what has received national recognition in the Globe and Mail of Squalor Bay,

[0:24:13] Voice 34: and liquor bottles on the lower left. When it comes to environmental issues on our islands,

[0:24:19] Voice 34: we need to clean this up. Next slide please. In closing, this last slide offers an update

[0:24:28] Voice 34: date to my December presentation, which again, I thank you very much for allowing me to present

[0:24:33] Voice 34: that. I contacted the general email address of the ministry and posed this simple question.

[0:24:39] Voice 34: Does the CDF zone extend into the United States? An ecosystem biologist with the ministry confirmed

[0:24:45] Voice 34: that it does. So thank you again for your time. I look forward to any questions.

[0:24:53] Trustee Luckham: Very good. Thank you very much, sir, for your presentation. Are there any questions for the

[0:24:57] Trustee Luckham: the delegate uh ben mcconnell it's

[0:25:00] Voice 21: a quick question is well sourced a presentation thanks

[0:25:03] Voice 21: for speaking to trust council today uh you're noting the wildfire risks now that counters

[0:25:09] Voice 21: information that i've received from my fire department local fire department and other fire

[0:25:14] Voice 21: services within parks canada i noticed that your source is cbc so i'm curious to know if you have

[0:25:19] Voice 21: any more detailed sources uh that back up your major concerns over wildfire risk it is a concern

[0:25:25] Voice 21: in the Gulf Islands, but not as big a concern as what I'm hearing from fire experts. So I'm

[0:25:31] Voice 21: wondering if you could speak to that.

[0:25:32] Voice 34: Sure. On wildfire, my source was BC

[0:25:35] Voice 34: Wildfire Service. And the average was 40% of wildfires are person caused. I've also spoken

[0:25:42] Voice 34: with Bruce Blackwell of BA Blackwell Associates, who is one of the foremost recognized experts on

[0:25:50] Voice 34: on wildfire. And he advised me it was probably 50-50. But he's the expert. I'm not. And I would

[0:25:56] Voice 34: strongly encourage, I can readily give out his contact information, but I put Bruce ahead of

[0:26:03] Voice 34: anybody I know in terms of an expert.

[0:26:09] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Thank you again, sir. Any other questions?

[0:26:13] Trustee Luckham: No. Okay. Thank you very much. We'll move on to our next delegate. 5.14, Year of the Salish Sea.

[0:26:21] Trustee Luckham: I don't have the name of the presenter in front of me here.

[0:26:26] Trustee Luckham: So can we promote that person?

[0:26:29] Trustee Luckham: Do we know who that is on this participants list?

[0:26:37] Trustee Luckham: Tasha Romien and Simran Serial.

[0:26:43] Trustee Luckham: There you go.

[0:26:44] Trustee Luckham: Welcome to Trust Council.

[0:26:46] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for joining us.

[0:26:48] Voice 45: Hi, welcome.

[0:26:49] Voice 45: Thanks for having us.

[0:26:51] Voice 45: myself and Tasha Romain who's my co-worker will both be presenting to you today so I'll get

[0:26:56] Voice 45: started. Hello everyone it's lovely to meet you this evening my name is Simran Sarai and my

[0:27:01] Voice 45: co-worker Tasha Romain is here we're the co-leads of the year of the Salish Gee initiative we would

[0:27:06] Voice 45: just like to respectfully acknowledge that we are calling in from the unceded and traditional

[0:27:09] Voice 45: territories of the Musqueam Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh nations. Indigenous communities have

[0:27:14] Voice 45: been stewarding the lands and waters that since time immemorial and continue to carry out incredible

[0:27:20] Voice 45: incredible work in stewarding the protection

[0:27:22] Voice 45: of the Salish Sea, its watersheds, and its inhabitants.

[0:27:26] Voice 45: These nations have been warning us of the harmful impacts

[0:27:30] Voice 45: of the extractive industry and continuous expansion

[0:27:32] Voice 45: will and has had on our fragile ecosystems.

[0:27:36] Voice 45: They've also for too long been bearing the responsibility

[0:27:39] Voice 45: of protecting the lands and waters.

[0:27:42] Voice 45: We are continuously learning what it means to live

[0:27:44] Voice 45: on unceded lands, and we encourage everyone to keep this

[0:27:47] Voice 45: at the forefront of our work.

[0:27:49] Voice 45: Next slide, please.

[0:27:55] Voice 45: I'm not sure if it's just on my end, but I can't see the slideshow, so hopefully all of you can see the slideshow.

[0:28:02] Voice 45: In this presentation, I'm just going to be briefly going over what the Year of the Salish Sea is and why we would invite the Islands Trust Council to proclaim the Year of the Salish Sea.

[0:28:12] Voice 45: It'll be happening from June 8, 2022 through to June 7, 2023.

[0:28:21] Voice 45: I'll just speak to the Year of the Salish Sea. I know I feel like there's a couple of issues with the slideshow.

[0:28:26] Voice 45: So the Year of the Salish Sea Initiative is a movement that emerged out of the SFU semester by the Salish Sea Cohort in fall 2021.

[0:28:33] Voice 45: This was a 13-week long program hosted by Simon Fraser University semestered in dialogue in downtown Vancouver.

[0:28:39] Voice 45: It was guided by three instructors and made up of a group of 12 students from a range of academic disciplines,

[0:28:44] Voice 45: all passionate about learning what it means to live in a reciprocal way with the land and sea.

[0:28:49] Voice 45: Over the course of our program, we spoke with over 50 experts who live and work with the Salish Sea.

[0:28:54] Voice 45: In response to the state of our oceans, their ecosystems, extreme weather conditions, and fragmented ocean governance here in BC, we came up with the Year of the Sailor Sheet as one way to bring together the work already being done to address these issues.

[0:29:07] Voice 45: Next slide, please.

[0:29:09] Voice 45: So what can the Year of the Sailor Sheet achieve?

[0:29:12] Voice 45: The Year of the Sailor Sheet is going to be running from World Ocean Day, which is June 8, 2022, through to June 7, 2023.

[0:29:17] Voice 45: 2023, and the movement asked local government to declare the Year of the Salish Sea in their

[0:29:22] Voice 45: region to generate awareness and momentum of ocean stewardship initiatives in their communities.

[0:29:26] Voice 45: The movement also aims to amplify stewardship and conservation efforts and open opportunities

[0:29:31] Voice 45: for dialogue and collaboration between stakeholders. Our goals are to encourage

[0:29:36] Voice 45: collaboration, coordination of these stewardship efforts, generate public awareness and engagement

[0:29:40] Voice 45: by highlighting events and other opportunities for engagement, such as conferences and resources.

[0:29:45] Voice 45: And finally, we hope that declaring the Year of the Salish Sea in municipalities and in

[0:29:50] Voice 45: regions will open up windows to the public and elected officials to create meaningful

[0:29:54] Voice 45: policy changes in regards to the management of our oceans at the municipal, provincial

[0:29:58] Voice 45: and federal levels.

[0:30:00] Voice 45: Next slide, please. I'm going to pass it off to Tasha.

[0:30:06] Voice 1: Thanks so much, Sim. Yeah, so as you can see on the slide, the Year of the Salish Sea has already picked up in the City of Vancouver.

[0:30:12] Voice 1: In January, Vancouver City Council unanimously passed the Year of the Salish Sea motion put forward by Councillor Michael Wiebe,

[0:30:19] Voice 1: which is one reason why now is a really good time to build off this momentum and get on board.

[0:30:24] Voice 1: Next slide, please. I'll briefly go over why we are recommending that Council proclaim June 8, 2022 to June 7, 2023.

[0:30:39] Voice 1: as the Year of the Salish Sea.

[0:30:41] Voice 1: So this proclamation will help the Gulf Islands

[0:30:44] Voice 1: join the momentum that is already picking up

[0:30:46] Voice 1: in the lower mainland,

[0:30:47] Voice 1: creating a stronger and wider reach

[0:30:49] Voice 1: for Salish Sea awareness generally.

[0:30:51] Voice 1: It is also the UN Ocean Decade

[0:30:53] Voice 1: and the UN Decade on Ecosystem Restoration.

[0:30:55] Voice 1: So the Year of the Salish Sea

[0:30:56] Voice 1: lines up well with these ongoing global projects.

[0:30:58] Voice 1: It would also provide governing bodies,

[0:31:00] Voice 1: environmental conservation groups,

[0:31:02] Voice 1: and community members from the Gulf Islands

[0:31:04] Voice 1: with opportunities to amplify their work.

[0:31:06] Voice 1: Councils already doing work

[0:31:07] Voice 1: that would align well with the Year of the Salish Sea

[0:31:10] Voice 1: For example, we would love to work with the Islands Trust to raise awareness for initiatives

[0:31:15] Voice 1: with the various acquisition funds.

[0:31:18] Voice 1: It would also bring awareness to the work of various island conservancy groups who are

[0:31:22] Voice 1: an integral part of the work that the Council does as well.

[0:31:25] Voice 1: For example, Raincoast Conservation's Gulf Islands Forest Project, that I'm sure you're

[0:31:29] Voice 1: all aware of, has been conducting incredible work protecting the forest on the islands

[0:31:33] Voice 1: of the Salish Sea, among other projects.

[0:31:35] Voice 1: Through generating greater public awareness for projects like these, we hope to build

[0:31:38] Voice 1: support for putting pressure on decision makers to prioritize the health of the Salish Sea ecosystem

[0:31:43] Voice 1: and implement policies aligned with conservation organizations recommendations and lastly the year

[0:31:50] Voice 1: of the Salish Sea is an opportunity for council to connect and to connect with local organizations

[0:31:54] Voice 1: as well as Salish Sea stakeholders in the metro Vancouver region in the lower mainland. We know

[0:32:00] Voice 1: how a lot of the goals of local nature conservation and protection groups overlap so another one of

[0:32:05] Voice 1: of our goals is to try and strengthen these efforts by bringing them together. The Year of the

[0:32:09] Voice 1: Salish Sea is a wonderful time to organize a series of dialogues to support collaboration and

[0:32:13] Voice 1: relationship building. We're organizing public events and interdisciplinary events that combine

[0:32:18] Voice 1: science communication with arts and storytelling to build a culture surrounded by awareness of

[0:32:23] Voice 1: the interconnectedness with us and with the ocean. So these are some of the reasons why we think

[0:32:29] Voice 1: proclaiming the Year of the Salish Sea would benefit the council as well as ongoing land and

[0:32:33] Voice 1: and sea stewardship work all over the Sailor Sea region.

[0:32:36] Voice 1: Next slide, please, which is our last slide.

[0:32:39] Voice 1: Yeah, that brings us to the end.

[0:32:41] Voice 1: Thank you for having us again.

[0:32:43] Voice 1: You can visit our website or contact our Gmail

[0:32:46] Voice 1: to set up a conversation about this initiative.

[0:32:53] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you very much for your presentation.

[0:32:56] Trustee Luckham: We've certainly come a long way in the last 20 years,

[0:33:00] Trustee Luckham: I'll say, since nobody understood where the Sailor Sea was

[0:33:04] Trustee Luckham: us to now a point in time where we're celebrating the values that we find here. So I'll ask our

[0:33:09] Trustee Luckham: trustees, are there any questions for the delegates? Down here we

[0:33:15] Trustee Critchley: have David Critchley

[0:33:15] Trustee Critchley: from Denman Island. Yes, thank you for your presentation. Just wondering if you could

[0:33:22] Trustee Critchley: list for me in perhaps order of priorities the main threats to the environment of the Salish Sea

[0:33:30] Trustee Critchley: as you see it um

[0:33:34] Voice 45: so over the course of our semester we met with as we said over 50 experts

[0:33:40] Voice 45: and the salish chief faces a whole host of issues um because of the complex nature of our oceans and

[0:33:48] Voice 45: our ecosystems it's hard to define which is which is the top priority which threat is the top

[0:33:54] Voice 45: priority as we know climate change has devastating impacts on our ecosystems we saw this with the

[0:33:59] Voice 45: the flooding that happened in Amsterdam, we saw this with the heat dome that devastated marine

[0:34:03] Voice 45: life on the shores of the Salish Sea this past summer. Other risks that we have, we have really

[0:34:09] Voice 45: incredible biodiversity in our oceans. We have the Southern Resident Killer Whales, which is,

[0:34:14] Voice 45: you know, our really treasured ecological, culturally, economically important species to

[0:34:19] Voice 45: BC. They're at risk. They only have 74 resident killer whales left. They face immense risk from

[0:34:24] Voice 45: chemical pollutants in the water, a lack of creation of salmon, where salmon populations

[0:34:28] Voice 45: have been on the decline and have been struggling to recover for years now, for decades now, and

[0:34:32] Voice 45: they're still struggling along with our herring populations. Southern resident killer whales also,

[0:34:37] Voice 45: along with other species, face risk from anthropogenic disturbances. So our tankers

[0:34:43] Voice 45: that are coming in, we have a pipeline expansion that's coming in that's going to increase the

[0:34:47] Voice 45: number of tankers and large ships in our water and increases traffic that impacts these whales,

[0:34:52] Voice 45: that not just southern residents, humpback whales, any marine cetaceans. So there's a lot of risks

[0:34:58] Voice 45: out there and there's a lot of threats facing the Salish Sea. Climate change, risk to biodiversity,

[0:35:05] Voice 45: risk from humans, which is whether that's chemical runoff, risk from industry. Myself, I'm not a

[0:35:12] Voice 45: scientist, but we are working with scientists to amplify their work. We have incredible,

[0:35:17] Voice 45: incredible researchers here in bc working from ocean wise rank of conservation um so many

[0:35:24] Voice 45: organizations so many scientists doing the work here on the salish tea and they've been identifying

[0:35:29] Voice 45: these risks to the diversity in the life and the health of the salish tea for decades since

[0:35:34] Voice 45: probably before we were born um and so i think there's a lot of risks and and i don't think

[0:35:40] Voice 45: it's fair to prioritize which risks are most important and most critical when there's so many

[0:35:45] Voice 45: and they're so interdisciplinary and so complex.

[0:35:48] Voice 45: And the way that they intersect with each other

[0:35:50] Voice 45: are compounding impacts.

[0:35:53] Trustee Luckham: Wow.

[0:35:56] Trustee Luckham: I just heard a trustee in the room go, wow.

[0:35:58] Trustee Luckham: So really, thank you very much.

[0:36:02] Trustee Luckham: You guys are so on this.

[0:36:03] Trustee Luckham: It's fantastic.

[0:36:05] Trustee Luckham: Disposition of delegations happens on Thursday

[0:36:08] Trustee Luckham: at a council session.

[0:36:10] Trustee Luckham: So we'll see if we might get a motion to support your work.

[0:36:14] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[0:36:15] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[0:36:16] Trustee Luckham: Thank you both of you for being here and supporting the Sailor Sea.

[0:36:23] Trustee Luckham: Our next delegation at 5.15 is Michael Sketch from North Pender Island, second iteration of trust governance.

[0:36:31] Trustee Luckham: Michael, welcome back to council. And if you take the microphone up there, it's nice to see you in person.

[0:36:54] Voice 35: Is that all right?

[0:37:05] Voice 35: Councillors, a second iteration of trust area governance is overdue.

[0:37:11] Voice 35: I'll call Council's Trust Policy Statement by-law the TPS. Please give authority to the Trust

[0:37:17] Voice 35: Programs Committee to rewrite the TPS, wherein the two-level hierarchical federal governance

[0:37:25] Voice 35: established in the Act is implemented. Failure of the Trust to implement federal governance

[0:37:32] Voice 35: has set aside the check and balance oversight of the local planning service. That's I'll call the

[0:37:39] Voice 35: LPS. Equally serious, fatal flaws in both structure and content of the TPS compromise

[0:37:47] Voice 35: effective implementation of trust area policies. My December delegation gave remedy for federal

[0:37:54] Voice 35: governance this evening for the TPS. The content of Council's 1994 TPS has been amended several

[0:38:04] Voice 35: several times, but a structure remains where trust area policies are delegated to the local

[0:38:12] Voice 35: trust areas for implementation.

[0:38:16] Voice 35: I argue that Council of the day accepted the structure on the unspoken assumption of enhanced

[0:38:22] Voice 35: local autonomy, but that the delegation of policy implementation throws a spanner in

[0:38:30] Voice 35: the intention of the Act.

[0:38:33] Voice 35: On North Pender, I asked the LTC Chair to implement missing trust area policies in a

[0:38:40] Voice 35: current land use by-law review.

[0:38:43] Voice 35: Staff replied that current by-laws are correct because they have been approved by Trust Executive.

[0:38:51] Voice 35: At Trust Council, I asked the Chair as to responsibility for policy implementation.

[0:38:57] Voice 35: The Chair replied that responsibility lies with the LTC.

[0:39:01] Voice 35: taken in isolation both statements are correct council will understand the potential for

[0:39:10] Voice 35: sidestepping trust area policies current draft tps 183 needs in my opinion a rewrite will council

[0:39:22] Voice 35: meaningfully deliberate a rewrite there is a second public consultation process based on

[0:39:29] Voice 35: on and restricted to draft TPS 183 alone.

[0:39:35] Voice 33: From

[0:39:36] Voice 35: the public perspective, correction of TPS structure

[0:39:39] Voice 35: and content faces a logjam.

[0:39:42] Voice 35: A former trustee recalls that earlier trust area policies,

[0:39:47] Voice 35: although not a statutory requirement then,

[0:39:50] Voice 35: was developed by deliberation at the council table.

[0:39:55] Voice 35: There is a difference.

[0:39:56] Voice 35: Trust area policy was developed by deliberation at the Trust Council table.

[0:40:03] Voice 35: Today, the TPS was amended by staff behind closed doors.

[0:40:08] Voice 35: The cost has been 18 months of lost council initiative and a punishing investment of staff resources.

[0:40:21] Trustee Luckham: I'm just going to ask you to be careful about your reference about who is responsible for the work.

[0:40:26] Trustee Luckham: Council is responsible for the work.

[0:40:28] Voice 35: Yes. Thank you.

[0:40:31] Voice 35: The policy component of each directive policy is, oh sorry, correcting the structure of the TPS

[0:40:37] Voice 35: begins with the wording of directive policies. The policy component of each directive policy

[0:40:44] Voice 35: is preceded by a procedural component as follows. Local trust committees shall,

[0:40:51] Voice 35: in their official community plans and regulatory bylaws, address the policy component. Trust area

[0:40:59] Voice 35: Trust area policy implementation is preempted by the procedural preamble.

[0:41:05] Voice 35: Implementation is delegated to the local trust area.

[0:41:09] Voice 35: A question of whether trust body action is contrary to or at variance with a trust policy

[0:41:17] Voice 35: is reduced to the question of whether the policy is addressed in local bylaws.

[0:41:24] Voice 35: Further, the preamble wording begs the question as to whether the policy component

[0:41:29] Voice 35: under the directive policies is binding on the actions of council and its executive committee.

[0:41:36] Voice 35: Once delegated, there is neither certainty of local area implementation, nor does policy give

[0:41:43] Voice 35: recourse for council if directive policies aren't being implemented. Lest council doubt the

[0:41:50] Voice 35: flexibility given by the current and draft TPS, the role of LTCs section in the policy statement

[0:41:57] Voice 35: states that where a directive policy requires a local trust committee to address,

[0:42:03] Voice 35: the official community plan must contain policies that implement.

[0:42:09] Voice 35: And here's the kicker. Or the plan must set out explicitly the reasons and justifications

[0:42:15] Voice 35: for local policies to not do so. A flexibility not intended by the Act.

[0:42:22] Voice 35: Remedy is easy. Delete the procedural component, leaving the policy component alone.

[0:42:27] Voice 35: loan. Then council itself directs adherence to trust area policies, but by each of council,

[0:42:33] Voice 35: executive committee, and the LTCs, as the Act instructs. Correctingly, content of the TPS

[0:42:43] Voice 35: begins with policy which gives certainty to the word environment in the trust object. The province

[0:42:50] Voice 35: adopted the 1974 Act even as examples of the built environment overwhelming the natural environment

[0:42:57] Voice 35: were manifest at issue were freewheeling post-second world war land use changes which

[0:43:05] Voice 35: would transform the predominantly rural built environment to ever more dense urban style

[0:43:12] Voice 35: development in that context the environment to be preserved and protected is the sum of its

[0:43:20] Voice 35: natural environment and predominantly rural built environment parts policy must require that land

[0:43:27] Voice 35: land use changes are addressed by first considering the preservation and protection of the modified

[0:43:34] Voice 35: natural and natural environments.

[0:43:36] Voice 35: Without that certainty, in time, the built environment will fail.

[0:43:42] Voice 35: That's not the only interpretation for the word environment, but Council can take it

[0:43:48] Voice 35: to be a reasonable interpretation.

[0:43:52] Voice 35: Were the province to have intended natural environment, then the trust object would have

[0:43:58] Voice 35: have been so worded.

[0:44:01] Voice 35: Failure to give policy clarity to environment

[0:44:04] Voice 35: and lack of effective trust policy implementation

[0:44:07] Voice 35: are serious criticisms of current and proposed TPSs.

[0:44:12] Voice 35: At issue is the credibility of council leadership

[0:44:15] Voice 35: in carrying out the object of the trust.

[0:44:20] Voice 35: Why weren't the criticisms flagged in 1994?

[0:44:24] Voice 35: At face value, I think the carrot

[0:44:26] Voice 35: for the LCC role of councillors was the appearance

[0:44:31] Voice 35: a stress appearance, of greater local autonomy.

[0:44:35] Voice 35: But in 1994 and today, there was and is potential for conflicting interests

[0:44:42] Voice 35: for the local planning service and councillors with their trust area hat on.

[0:44:48] Voice 35: Unfettered local planning control, free of higher-level policy,

[0:44:54] Voice 35: does recommend flexible trust policy implementation.

[0:44:57] Voice 35: implementation. Delegation of directive policies to the LTCs guarantees that flexibility, but

[0:45:04] Voice 35: there is no such instruction in the Act.

[0:45:08] Voice 35: Consulate, please give direction for the second iteration of trust governance, a TPS rewrite

[0:45:14] Voice 35: and full implementation of federal governance. Both corrections are needed before the potential

[0:45:21] Voice 35: of the Act can be realized. Thank you.

[0:45:24] Voice 35: Yeah,

[0:45:33] Trustee Luckham: sorry about that. Thank you, Michael. Any questions for the delegate? Not seeing any. Thank you for, again, coming to council. Our next speaker is Friends of the Gulf Islands, and I believe that's Jennifer Markison, regarding the trust policy directives. And we'll get you promoted and you'll, oh, there you are in person. Excellent. Thank you.

[0:46:00] Voice 4: I am. And hello to my elected trustees, Jane Wilberton and Tahira and our chair, Dan Rogers.

[0:46:08] Voice 4: Can you hear me?

[0:46:10] Trustee Luckham: Absolutely.

[0:46:12] Voice 4: Thank you. And I would like to wish you all a very happy International Women's Day, as was mentioned earlier.

[0:46:19] Voice 4: As a feminist, I've always felt very honoured to have my birthday fall on this day.

[0:46:24] Voice 4: So I'm also honored to appear before you today as a concerned environmentalist on my 70th birthday.

[0:46:32] Voice 4: So I guess I'm now officially an elder.

[0:46:36] Voice 4: My presentation to you today is on behalf of many Gulf Islands residents who came together recently as friends of the Gulf Islands as signatories of a petition presented to you at the December Trust Council meeting.

[0:46:52] Voice 4: That petition of 500 signatures requested that the trust policy statement make protection of the natural environment and preservation of the rural character of the islands the top priority.

[0:47:08] Voice 4: It also requested that no further rezoning be allowed in areas where overall ecosystem health is threatened or where the quantity or quality of freshwater supplies for already approved development may be adversely affected.

[0:47:31] Voice 4: I hope that we will be presenting another installment of the petition to you soon.

[0:47:37] Voice 4: We are now up to 720 signatures.

[0:47:41] Voice 4: I want to speak to you tonight specifically about freshwater protection.

[0:47:46] Voice 4: It has been stated by William Shulbaugh, the Trust Freshwater Specialist,

[0:47:51] Voice 4: that freshwater is the most precious resource of the Trust area.

[0:47:56] Voice 4: The fact that a hydrogeologist is the Trust's only environmental expert on staff

[0:48:03] Voice 4: also emphasizes the importance of this natural resource.

[0:48:07] Voice 4: However, it is the concern of some trust area residents who have followed their LTC's land use deliberations and decision-making that current trust policy statement directives 4.4.2 and 4.4.3 under freshwater resources do not in reality serve to protect and preserve our freshwater resources.

[0:48:35] Voice 4: resources. Further, our concern is that the proposed revision to the trust policy statement

[0:48:42] Voice 4: as represented in draft bylaw 183, specifically through directive 4.2,

[0:48:51] Voice 4: freshwater stewardship policies will also not serve to protect and preserve our freshwater

[0:48:58] Voice 4: water resources. In the current trust policy statement 4.4.2 states local trust committees

[0:49:07] Voice 4: and island municipalities shall in their official community plans and regulatory bylaws

[0:49:13] Voice 4: address measures that ensure neither the density nor intensity of land use is increased

[0:49:20] Voice 4: in areas which are known to have a problem with the quality or quantity of the supply of fresh

[0:49:27] Voice 4: That water quality is maintained and existing anticipated and seasonal demands for water are considered and allowed for.

[0:49:38] Voice 4: The public believes these directives ensure that one, there is the quantity and quality of fresh water necessary to sustain the proposed scale of a development before an LTC.

[0:49:55] Voice 4: and two, that neighboring wells will not be disadvantaged.

[0:50:01] Voice 4: Yet we consistently observe that when the Trust Policy Statement Directives Checklist

[0:50:06] Voice 4: is presented in a staff report, staff advise that the bylaws being considered

[0:50:13] Voice 4: are not contrary to or at variance with the Islands Trust Policy Statement

[0:50:20] Voice 4: freshwater resources directives, and the LTCs accept the staff recommendations and approve

[0:50:27] Voice 4: the bylaws. In several examples I will cite, there appears to be no evidence in either the

[0:50:34] Voice 4: staff reports or in LTC deliberations or even in the commercial water license approvals by

[0:50:42] Voice 4: Flynnrow that already occurring problems with fresh water, anticipated demands, namely already

[0:50:52] Voice 4: zoned for build-out of the adjacent neighborhoods, or seasonal demands were or will be taken into

[0:51:01] Voice 4: consideration. On Galliano, in the case of a high-density housing rezoning before the LTC,

[0:51:08] Voice 4: many letters were submitted to the LTC and to Flynnrow

[0:51:13] Voice 4: on already occurring water problems of nearby wells.

[0:51:17] Voice 4: The strata adjacent to the land for this proposed multi-unit development

[0:51:22] Voice 4: is only 33% built out, and the surrounding neighborhood is less than 50% built out.

[0:51:30] Voice 4: All are reliant on an aquifer rated as low productivity

[0:51:36] Voice 4: in an area of high risk for saltwater intrusion.

[0:51:41] Voice 4: On Salt Spring Island, Bylaw 461 was passed, allowing full-time occupancy of suites on over 1,500 properties,

[0:51:52] Voice 4: many in an area where water shortages were projected and later confirmed.

[0:51:57] Voice 4: later bylaw 512 was passed rezoning 411 properties to allow full-time occupancy of cottages

[0:52:06] Voice 4: many in the north of the island where many homes already had inadequate groundwater

[0:52:12] Voice 4: in neither case were current water shortages climate change effects or anticipated demand

[0:52:20] Voice 4: man considered in selecting the areas for increased density. On Gabriola, in a rezoning

[0:52:28] Voice 4: for a multi-dwelling complex for 70 people, there is no evidence that in that same area,

[0:52:35] Voice 4: the water demands of an approved 27-lot subdivision were considered. In an area of high density,

[0:52:43] Voice 4: near a school, three malls, two seniors' housing complexes, two medical dental clinics,

[0:52:49] Voice 4: and a neighborhood of approximately 150 wells.

[0:52:54] Voice 4: And there appears to be no evidence that seasonal demands from longer drought periods due to climate change

[0:53:01] Voice 4: and increases in water volume usage that occur at the most water-stressed time of year

[0:53:08] Voice 4: due to part-time residents, visitors, and garden irrigation

[0:53:13] Voice 4: were or will be taken into consideration in LTC land use decision making.

[0:53:21] Voice 4: We know our groundwater in the trust area comes solely from precipitation.

[0:53:27] Voice 4: We also know that precipitation for eight of the last 12 months in 2021 were well below normal.

[0:53:38] Voice 4: And I'm sure we all remember the heat domes.

[0:53:40] Voice 4: This should give us pause.

[0:53:42] Voice 4: The trust policy statement requires that local trust committees and island municipalities shall, in their official community plans and regulatory bylaws, address measures that ensure these directives are observed.

[0:53:58] Voice 4: Cumulative environmental effects of development must be assessed.

[0:54:03] Voice 4: Indeed, that is surely the heart of the Islands Trust Act and object.

[0:54:08] Voice 4: project. Instead, the trust policy directives checklist, when presented to our LTCs, appears

[0:54:16] Voice 4: to be a meaningless document, simply words on paper, not offering any accurate assessment of

[0:54:24] Voice 4: risks to freshwater resources, where there is in fact valuable local knowledge of water problems,

[0:54:32] Voice 4: where it is not evident that anticipated and seasonal demands have been allowed for,

[0:54:37] Voice 4: and where a precautionary approach and a check on development should be recommended.

[0:54:45] Voice 4: The communities who are concerned about the environmental impact of developments

[0:54:49] Voice 4: are being misled and misinformed by this document and process.

[0:54:56] Voice 4: Our requests are as follows.

[0:55:00] Voice 4: One, when it comes to applications for commercial water license,

[0:55:05] Voice 4: We request that the staff ask Flinro to specifically assess the cumulative effects of those licenses, providing clear evidence that any already occurring water problems have been investigated and that build-out is taken into account.

[0:55:23] Voice 4: count. Two, we request that the Trust Council give the issue of freshwater resources their most

[0:55:31] Voice 4: serious consideration and rectify what seems to be a major implementation flaw in the Trust Policy

[0:55:40] Voice 4: Statement, addressing the most basic but critical question, will there be sufficient water for all

[0:55:48] Voice 4: all now and in the future. In closing, I would like to thank all of you for your work. I understand

[0:55:56] Voice 4: that everyone here cares about the trust area. And I very much appreciate the opportunity to

[0:56:02] Voice 4: speak to you in person tonight. Thank you.

[0:56:07] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Jennifer. And thank you for keeping

[0:56:10] Trustee Luckham: your presentation on time. It's great. And we'll move on to the next unless there's any questions.

[0:56:16] Trustee Luckham: questions, sorry. Any questions? Oh, you got off easy. Okay, thank you. And we'll move on to the

[0:56:24] Trustee Luckham: next presenter here. What we've got next is Maya Reid Boland, also regarding water in the trust

[0:56:34] Trustee Luckham: area. So Maya Reid, do we have you on screen here? Hi.

[0:56:54] Trustee Luckham: Hello, Maya. Thank you for joining us again.

[0:56:56] Trustee Luckham: over to you. Sure,

[0:56:58] Voice 13: thanks. So I don't see my slides. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, thank you. So

[0:57:10] Voice 13: slide number two, please. This is a collaboration between Margie Gang, David Payton, and myself.

[0:57:27] Voice 13: Could I have slide number two, please? Thank you. So broadly speaking, thank you for the opportunity to speak.

[0:57:36] Voice 13: I'm Mairead Boland. I'm a resident of Saterna and I'm a retired geologist.

[0:57:42] Voice 13: I worked with subsurface data and models. Overall points.

[0:57:48] Voice 13: Broadly, I'm trying to show that some scientific studies and strategies may be creating an unnecessary expense and tax burden.

[0:57:57] Voice 13: The costs for implementation of recommendations, including regulations, are unclear.

[0:58:05] Voice 13: And I would argue that current land use bylaws and zoning take account of watershed protection.

[0:58:12] Voice 13: And I will highlight specific issues with Saterna water usage estimates, which have a significant impact on the findings.

[0:58:20] Voice 13: Slide number three. So the Southern Gulf Islands Sustainability Strategy Project Charter has a planned budget of 52,000 and planned staff hours of 840.

[0:58:35] Voice 13: How can we know the cost of those staff hours and progress against this plan?

[0:58:41] Voice 13: Slide number four. These are some of the recent reports that I'll talk through as I go through this presentation.

[0:58:55] Voice 13: and slide number five please uh the specific freshwater sustainability strategy which the

[0:59:05] Voice 13: draft was presented in december 2021 this outlines a 10-year program of activities with the cost

[0:59:13] Voice 13: table pointing to a range from 0.5 million dollars to 1.2 million dollars the range of activities

[0:59:20] Voice 13: and partners is breathtaking. Is the Islands Trust duplicating the work and responsibility

[0:59:27] Voice 13: of other levels of government? I personally created an inventory of reports created for

[0:59:34] Voice 13: the Islands Trust and for the province on water in the Gulf Islands, and I wonder if there is

[0:59:41] Voice 13: full coordination of the work being done. For instance, I noticed two reports on

[0:59:47] Voice 13: on Solspring Island, which seemed to overlap

[0:59:49] Voice 13: in timing, content, and intent.

[0:59:53] Voice 13: Slide number seven, please.

[0:59:57] Voice 13: So you can skip this one, please.

[1:00:00] Voice 13: on to the next slide. Thank you. Groundwater regulation. Recently, I listened to a discussion

[1:00:05] Voice 13: at Pender LTC. I questioned the data being used. For instance, 18,000 litres of storage is suggested

[1:00:14] Voice 13: as representing a week's usage for a household. Nanaimo CRD has a very good rainwater collection

[1:00:21] Voice 13: guide where they suggest that a Qualicum three-person household needs 14,500 litres for a

[1:00:29] Voice 13: a month. And they add two and a half thousand for watering a substantial garden, bringing the total

[1:00:36] Voice 13: to 17,000 for a month. The Nanaimo report recognises that people who live with wells and

[1:00:43] Voice 13: water collection are very conservative in their water use and use far less water than urban

[1:00:49] Voice 13: municipal water users. I would merely say that the differences in estimates of use are so extreme

[1:00:56] Voice 13: that they need further investigation. Slide number eight. So there are three GW solution reports

[1:01:06] Voice 13: presented in July 2021 and October 2021. The first two describe data aggregation and model building.

[1:01:16] Voice 13: Note the range of uncertainty in the data used in these two reports needs clarification. I'll focus

[1:01:24] Voice 13: on the third report where water use is estimated for regions in the designated islands including

[1:01:31] Voice 13: Souternet. Slide number nine please. Flawed assumptions on water usage from the GW report

[1:01:41] Voice 13: itself. Actual water use is a major uncertainty and must be estimated using information from proxy

[1:01:49] Voice 13: models. Therefore it's unreliable and community engagement is needed to refine the water use

[1:01:56] Voice 13: estimates. Note proxy data for water use is from Kelowna and Vernon municipal water districts

[1:02:04] Voice 13: which may not be analogous to the Gulf Islands. Slide number 10. Look at the colours on these maps

[1:02:13] Voice 13: at this map. I'd like to draw your attention to the green areas on Saterna Island and if you look

[1:02:21] Voice 13: at the legend you'll notice that that's labeled irrigation. So these park areas are deemed to be

[1:02:30] Voice 13: urban parks and therefore 50 percent irrigated. So from this map you could argue that 50 percent

[1:02:39] Voice 13: of Saturna will be water use estimated as being 50 percent irrigated. This is patently obviously

[1:02:48] Voice 13: obviously flawed in its assumption and next slide please

[1:02:54] Voice 32: so

[1:02:57] Voice 13: water the water availability

[1:02:59] Voice 13: assessment is based on these uh the the land zone usage and there are inaccuracies with the method

[1:03:10] Voice 13: that highly inflate estimates of water abstraction water use assumptions are in line with a metro

[1:03:17] Voice 13: area, irrigated city parks, larger family domestic consumption. Did the report consider septic return

[1:03:26] Voice 13: in its water balance? All of the properties I would argue in the Gulf Islands use septic systems

[1:03:32] Voice 13: so water use is returned to the ground. The method used assumes 50% of park is irrigated,

[1:03:41] Voice 13: I've referred to this already. I don't think that anyone present could agree with this.

[1:03:45] Voice 13: So 45% of Saturna is park, and this assumes that 50% of that will be irrigated.

[1:03:55] Voice 13: Slide number 12. Many people on Saturna may have a well, but use rainwater for domestic supply.

[1:04:04] Voice 13: Most use captured rainwater for gardening.

[1:04:07] Voice 13: and incidentally at East Point 21,800 litres 4,800 gallons of rainwater storage is already

[1:04:17] Voice 13: mandated for new developments or additions. So turn a land use bylaw 119. So I move on to

[1:04:26] Voice 13: slide number 13 please and the results despite the pessimistic assumptions on water use

[1:04:34] Voice 13: The cut-off thresholds of greater than 5% and 10% use of recharge water is set for areas to designate medium and high concern.

[1:04:47] Voice 13: Despite very pessimistic overestimates of water use, four of five regions on Saturna Island fall into the category of least concern, i.e. less than 5% use of the recharge.

[1:05:01] Voice 13: charge. The region of Boot Cove Old Point Farm is deemed of medium concern in a dry year.

[1:05:09] Voice 13: They estimate use for a normal year and a dry year. From the knowledge of the area this ranking

[1:05:16] Voice 13: of medium concern is hard to understand. The east point of Boot Cove is on a lake fed community water

[1:05:23] Voice 13: system so use of water surface water should be considered and is not. The west side of Boot Cove

[1:05:31] Voice 13: is part of Old Point Farm, which has a three wells community water system for 20 houses

[1:05:38] Voice 13: on a land area of 270 acres. Intuitively, it would be one of Saturna's least stressed areas.

[1:05:48] Voice 13: Slide number 14, please. Of 45 SGI regions, in a normal year, 39 regions are classed as least

[1:06:00] Voice 13: concern. In a normal year, therefore, six are classed medium, one is high. What is the justification

[1:06:08] Voice 13: for the five and 10% thresholds for medium and high risk? This is not specifically addressed

[1:06:16] Voice 13: in the report, yet those thresholds are used to flag these yellow and red medium and high risk

[1:06:25] Voice 13: areas. Don't forget that these percentage use of recharged water comes from the water use

[1:06:35] Voice 13: estimates, which have easily been demonstrated to be too high in the case of Saturna.

[1:06:42] Voice 13: Conclusions and recommendations. Slide number 15, please. Even from this pessimistic report,

[1:06:52] Voice 13: there appears little justification for this extensive water regulation program.

[1:06:57] Voice 13: The scale of the water programme and the costs should be carefully examined and measured against the risks described in these reports.

[1:07:09] Voice 13: The Southern Gulf Island water usage data is described by the report's authors as pessimistic.

[1:07:17] Voice 13: Despite this, there are few areas flagged as medium or high concern.

[1:07:22] Voice 13: The usage estimates on Ceterna, refined by local knowledge, are very questionable, and therefore it's imperative that water use estimates be refined for every island before water regulations of any kind are advanced further.

[1:07:42] Voice 13: rather. In closing, I would say I would like to have had more time to review the GW Solutions

[1:07:49] Voice 13: reports, and I would have liked to discuss some of the questions I raise with the authors.

[1:07:55] Voice 13: And I'm happy to share my speaker's notes and my slide pack afterwards,

[1:08:00] Voice 13: and indeed the inventory I created of water reports. Thank you very much.

[1:08:08] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. Your slide deck was included in our package. Thank you very much. Any questions for

[1:08:15] Trustee Luckham: the delegate? No questions here. Thank you for joining us again. Now we're going to go to 9.2.

[1:08:26] Trustee Luckham: This is an opportunity for public comment. I'm going to go to my participants list here online

[1:08:35] Trustee Luckham: line and ask you to raise your digital hand and you can do that at the bottom right center of

[1:08:42] Trustee Luckham: your screen or if you're on a cell phone although i don't see any numbers listed there um i think

[1:08:49] Trustee Luckham: it's uh pound six dot pound nine

[1:08:54] Voice 32: oh

[1:08:55] Trustee Luckham: star nine anyway um if you want to raise your digital hand

[1:09:00] Trustee Luckham: And on your phone, that's the easiest way to do it.

[1:09:03] Trustee Luckham: And so I'll just ask for anybody that wishes to address council today on issues of our jurisdiction or concerns that you have on a federation-wide level.

[1:09:16] Trustee Luckham: Anybody raise their hands?

[1:09:17] Trustee Luckham: I see five hands up.

[1:09:21] Trustee Luckham: And so the first – oh, over there, too.

[1:09:25] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:09:25] Trustee Luckham: So we'll mix it up a little bit.

[1:09:27] Trustee Luckham: we'll get listen to some folks online and we'll also recognize members of our audience thank you

[1:09:32] Trustee Luckham: so um ian pierce i think it is peace in peace first speaker we'll get him promoted

[1:09:40] Trustee Luckham: and uh thank you for joining us today and we allocate three minutes for each speaker

[1:09:45] Trustee Luckham: in the public comment period hello

[1:09:58] Voice 32: ian

[1:10:02] Trustee Luckham: hi

[1:10:04] Voice 17: uh i'm calling in uh on behalf of the gulf islands

[1:10:07] Voice 17: Alliance, a grassroots not-for-profit organization that has members from throughout the trust area

[1:10:17] Voice 17: and our main principle is to support the mandate of preserve and protect of the Ons Trust.

[1:10:25] Voice 17: So mostly what I'm calling in about here is the budget. We'd like to give our full support to

[1:10:31] Voice 17: the budget proposals that specifically aim to preserve the natural ecology of the trust area

[1:10:38] Voice 17: and there are some other areas of the budget that we'd also like to give our full support

[1:10:42] Voice 17: this is all from the proposed 2022-23 budget and it's about six or seven different bullet points

[1:10:51] Voice 17: first off any and all work done by or on behalf of the island's trust conservancy

[1:10:58] Voice 17: next is climate change indicators specific to the trust area project we support budget items

[1:11:05] Voice 17: allocated toward that issue.

[1:11:09] Voice 17: Also full support for groundwater research and mapping

[1:11:12] Voice 17: for the trust area.

[1:11:14] Voice 17: And in addition, heritage preservation,

[1:11:17] Voice 17: support for budget items for heritage preservation,

[1:11:20] Voice 17: overlay mapping and model bylaws project.

[1:11:24] Voice 17: In addition, the Ganges Village Planning Project

[1:11:27] Voice 17: and the Coastal Douglas Fir Protection Project

[1:11:29] Voice 17: for Salt Spring.

[1:11:31] Voice 17: And lastly, on two points here,

[1:11:34] Voice 17: different islands of the gambier lta official community plan update and the hornby island

[1:11:40] Voice 17: official community plan update we have sincerely thank you for your deliberations and

[1:11:47] Voice 17: decisions regarding the upcoming budget and i think i finished early

[1:11:57] Trustee Luckham: very good thank you ian and thank you to the golf and alliance for uh having you come and present

[1:12:03] Trustee Luckham: to us today. I'm going to go to the next speaker. It looks like Malcolm Inglis will get you promoted,

[1:12:10] Trustee Luckham: sir, and await your arrival.

[1:12:16] Voice 28: Hello, can you hear me?

[1:12:18] Trustee Luckham: I can, thank you.

[1:12:20] Voice 28: Well, thank you. I'm Malcolm

[1:12:22] Voice 28: Inglis. I'm the president of the Maine Island Conservancy Society, and the trust council was

[1:12:29] Voice 28: Those are copied on a letter that the Conservancy wrote to three provincial ministries seeking

[1:12:38] Voice 28: urgent action on rampant deer overpopulations on Maine Island.

[1:12:44] Voice 28: And I thank our trustees, Dodds and Maud, for having this letter put on the council

[1:12:56] Voice 28: agenda.

[1:12:57] Voice 28: I'm not going to reiterate the points in the letter, the letter speaks for itself.

[1:13:07] Voice 28: I really wanted to reinforce that any influence that the Trust Council can bring to bear on

[1:13:21] Voice 28: the province to get action on the deer problem would be very grateful for and I would hope it

[1:13:31] Voice 28: would have some effect. It is the province's authority, they have the authority for wildlife

[1:13:41] Voice 28: management and it's really the province's responsibility to deal with deer over

[1:13:49] Voice 28: overpopulations, they created our fellow deer problem.

[1:13:53] Voice 28: What I think in addition to helping us advocate

[1:14:00] Voice 28: with the province, there are some things

[1:14:03] Voice 28: that the Trust Council can do.

[1:14:06] Voice 28: And one is to include the deer damage

[1:14:15] Voice 28: to the environment in the trust policy proposals.

[1:14:22] Voice 28: I was grateful to see other people speaking to that point earlier.

[1:14:29] Voice 25: And another

[1:14:31] Voice 28: is that we have a great deal of new residents in the Gulf Islands,

[1:14:43] Voice 28: as you're probably aware of the results of the recent census on Maine Island,

[1:14:49] Voice 28: where we've got the greatest number of population growth, nearly 38% population growth over the past five years.

[1:15:06] Voice 28: There's a huge, this means that there's a lot of people here now who think that what they see when they arrive here is a normal environment.

[1:15:16] Voice 28: We've lost the, we're losing a large part of our community memory as people move away

[1:15:27] Voice 28: from the island that is replaced by people who take what they arrive, what they see when

[1:15:35] Voice 28: they arrive here as the baseline for a natural environment, which is definitely not true.

[1:15:42] Voice 28: people so many people don't know what uh if

[1:15:46] Trustee Luckham: you don't mind pardon

[1:15:47] Voice 28: me i'll

[1:15:49] Trustee Luckham: just ask you

[1:15:50] Trustee Luckham: if you don't mind you've exceeded your okay

[1:15:53] Voice 28: um if you can uh communicate uh

[1:15:57] Voice 28: uh to uh in your public policy statements uh what a natural environment should be like here

[1:16:05] Voice 28: in the islands and what damage the deer are doing that way.

[1:16:11] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:16:12] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you very much

[1:16:14] Trustee Luckham: and bringing those concerns to our attention

[1:16:17] Trustee Luckham: and indeed thanks to the local trustees

[1:16:19] Trustee Luckham: for encouraging on.

[1:16:20] Trustee Luckham: That's great.

[1:16:22] Trustee Luckham: Next speaker here is Shawna Dahl,

[1:16:25] Trustee Luckham: who I believe is representing the Raincoast group.

[1:16:32] Voice 2: So Shawna Dahl.

[1:16:34] Voice 2: Hi, can you hear me?

[1:16:35] Trustee Luckham: Yes, we can.

[1:16:36] Trustee Luckham: Perfect.

[1:16:38] Voice 2: Hello to everybody. Happy International Wednesday to you all. As Chair Lockham said,

[1:16:45] Voice 2: I am from Raincoast Conservation Foundation and I'm joining today from the territory of the

[1:16:49] Voice 2: Esquimalt and Songhees Nations, but much of my work occurs in the territory of the Phoenix

[1:16:53] Voice 2: Nation. I'm calling to support the delegation made by the co-leads of the Year of the Salish Sea

[1:16:59] Voice 2: Initiative. I urge trustees to join Metro Vancouver in passing a motion to declare June 8,

[1:17:04] Voice 2: 2022 to June 7th, 2023, the year of the Salish Sea. If accompanied by supportive motions such

[1:17:11] Voice 2: as those made by Vancouver City Council, committing to collaborating with local organizations and

[1:17:16] Voice 2: local First Nations, this declaration would support and provide pathways to operationalize

[1:17:21] Voice 2: both Trust Council's Climate Emergency Declaration and Reconciliation Declaration,

[1:17:26] Voice 2: both made in 2019. It's so important to recognize that the rich biodiversity of CDF forests and

[1:17:32] Voice 2: and associated ecosystems was stewarded by First Nations

[1:17:36] Voice 2: since time immemorial, and it's no coincidence

[1:17:38] Voice 2: that aggressive settlement throughout this region

[1:17:40] Voice 2: and indigenous land alienation have resulted

[1:17:42] Voice 2: in a decline of abundance

[1:17:44] Voice 2: that once characterized these places.

[1:17:47] Voice 2: We need to cultivate a culture of conservation

[1:17:49] Voice 2: and foster a strong stewardship ethos

[1:17:51] Voice 2: to protect these places.

[1:17:53] Voice 2: We need to protect nature so it can protect us.

[1:17:56] Voice 2: Thank you all.

[1:17:57] Voice 2: Thank

[1:18:01] Trustee Luckham: you very much, Shauna,

[1:18:02] Trustee Luckham: and I appreciate you joining us here again today.

[1:18:06] Trustee Luckham: Our next speaker is a phone number ending in 2691.

[1:18:12] Trustee Luckham: If you don't mind introducing yourself

[1:18:14] Trustee Luckham: and you will have three minutes also.

[1:18:23] Trustee Luckham: You

[1:18:24] Voice 25: will have

[1:18:27] Trustee Luckham: to hit star six to unmute your phone.

[1:18:33] Trustee Luckham: There you go.

[1:18:34] Voice 46: I am unmuted.

[1:18:35] Voice 46: It's Harleen Holm.

[1:18:38] Voice 46: I'd like to thank the trustees for reading my lengthy submission,

[1:18:42] Voice 46: which is at the very end of that huge agenda package.

[1:18:47] Voice 46: I'd like to address three language kinds of problems

[1:18:52] Voice 46: when watching language not doing the work it should do.

[1:18:57] Voice 46: And so there are three terms, land use planning, environment,

[1:19:03] Voice 46: and fighting climate change.

[1:19:06] Voice 46: So first, land use planning is not synonymous with development.

[1:19:10] Voice 46: For example, land use planning can and should address the size of houses.

[1:19:16] Voice 46: Second, I suggest the Cambridge Dictionary definition of environment,

[1:19:21] Voice 46: which reads the air, water, and land in or on which people, animals, and plants live.

[1:19:29] Voice 46: The word environment is not a generic catch-all, regardless of efforts to stretch the word into a meaningless and sometimes contradictory one-size-fits-all.

[1:19:40] Voice 46: The environment, the air, water, and land, is a reliable benchmark to weigh and limit man-made impacts that degrade the air, water, and land.

[1:19:52] Voice 46: And three, fighting climate change is not something lurking somewhere outside that meeting room.

[1:19:58] Voice 46: fighting climate change needs to occur in this room by trustees recognizing the climate change

[1:20:05] Voice 46: is being driven by human activities what is the trust doing to change human activities at the very

[1:20:13] Voice 46: least and for every island establish caring capacity and limit build out to protect the

[1:20:20] Voice 46: health of the environment as if our lives depended on it which they do thank you people bye now

[1:20:27] Voice 46: okay

[1:20:30] Trustee Luckham: oh thank you very much for calling in um i'm going to keep going on the speakers list here and

[1:20:37] Trustee Luckham: then we'll come to members of the audience here bruce mcconkey who's a past trustee surprised to

[1:20:43] Trustee Luckham: see your name pop up welcome bruce oh

[1:20:46] Voice 20: i'm surprised you're surprised to see my name um

[1:20:48] Voice 20: chair chair luckum um just before you hit the three minute clock i just uh want to uh explain

[1:20:54] Voice 20: explain who I am, and I'd like to greet the trustees that I've worked with over the past

[1:20:59] Voice 20: number of years. I'm Bruce McConkie. I live at 8806 Canal Road, South Pender Island.

[1:21:05] Voice 20: Owned our property here that we're on since 1978, and been a permanent residence here since 2000.

[1:21:12] Voice 20: We moved the day after Trustee McConkie from North Pender graduated from high school,

[1:21:16] Voice 20: nobody tracked us down. I've been a two-term trustee and I also recently have got away from

[1:21:25] Voice 20: the trust to work on the issue of anchorages and freighter anchorages in our southern Gulf Islands

[1:21:30] Voice 20: which is probably the greatest threat to the Islands Trust area right now but primarily I

[1:21:37] Voice 20: believe in the object of the Islands Trust and I want to bring up two points today so hit the clock

[1:21:41] Voice 20: Peter and I'll be very brief

[1:21:43] Trustee Critchley: okay I've started the clock first

[1:21:45] Voice 20: I'm sure you

[1:21:46] Voice 20: have two points first one being governance I read through the governance

[1:21:51] Voice 20: report and basically trustees are addressing you as trustees you need to

[1:21:58] Voice 20: maintain the public trust after reading the report and watching today that

[1:22:04] Voice 20: report is rather scathing and sorely needed the consultant in my opinion was

[1:22:11] Voice 20: as being very nice and very tactful,

[1:22:14] Voice 20: but basically saying, you know, trustees,

[1:22:17] Voice 20: we need to get the act together.

[1:22:19] Voice 20: Young's trust needs to get its act together.

[1:22:21] Voice 20: Chair Luckin, you referred to the mirror.

[1:22:23] Voice 20: No one likes to look in the mirror,

[1:22:25] Voice 20: but the mirror does not lie.

[1:22:28] Voice 20: And there was a motion or actually discussion

[1:22:31] Voice 20: shortly after to create a select committee.

[1:22:36] Voice 20: And I do encourage you to get objective help

[1:22:40] Voice 20: on that committee.

[1:22:41] Voice 20: someone that doesn't like what they see in the mirror

[1:22:44] Voice 20: because it's easy to discount what you see in the mirror.

[1:22:48] Voice 20: So for the Islands Trust to regain this trust

[1:22:52] Voice 20: and the respect of people,

[1:22:54] Voice 20: you need to act on this governance report.

[1:22:57] Voice 20: Second point, budget.

[1:23:00] Voice 20: It's a huge budget of $9 million, but you know what?

[1:23:04] Voice 20: You will pass it as has happened in other years

[1:23:07] Voice 20: based on my experience.

[1:23:08] Voice 20: mainly for the following reasons the agenda provides no time for debate you have a very

[1:23:15] Voice 20: limited amount of time to debate the actual motion despite the enormous amount of input that has come

[1:23:21] Voice 20: in there you're also number two you're going to get pressure from staff there are time constraints

[1:23:27] Voice 20: you have to get this budget in the province requires it and also number three you're

[1:23:33] Voice 20: intimidated and there's so much other work that you're doing right now plus there's a very limited

[1:23:38] Voice 20: understanding of budgets as a whole it's an awful lot of work just to understand it and your staff

[1:23:43] Voice 20: is very professional in putting that together next point there's an election this fall you can pass

[1:23:49] Voice 20: this budget and some of you and half of you probably will walk away and say well we passed it

[1:23:54] Voice 20: and not run again the other ones are faced with dealing with the fallout from that the most

[1:24:00] Voice 20: important one is the fact that there's probably no alternatives you're going to have a short debate

[1:24:06] Voice 20: debate on this, but no one has put together an alternative.

[1:24:09] Voice 20: Do you need another meeting to discuss?

[1:24:11] Voice 20: This is a $9 million budget.

[1:24:13] Voice 20: What are you doing?

[1:24:14] Voice 20: Where can you cut?

[1:24:15] Voice 20: Do you need to cut?

[1:24:16] Voice 20: Or are you just going to go ahead and pass it?

[1:24:18] Voice 20: And so basically I say to you, good luck.

[1:24:20] Voice 20: This is a very difficult decision.

[1:24:21] Voice 20: It's crossroads that you're at.

[1:24:23] Voice 20: And having from that experience and that sort of stuff,

[1:24:27] Voice 20: you got some tough decisions,

[1:24:28] Voice 20: but that's why they pay you the big bucks.

[1:24:30] Voice 20: Thank you.

[1:24:31] Voice 20: well

[1:24:34] Trustee Luckham: thank you very much bruce uh nice to hear your voice and i look forward to seeing you here

[1:24:40] Trustee Luckham: again sometime anyway let's move along on our list i'll go to cynthia is how you listed here today

[1:24:47] Trustee Luckham: and uh you're promoted and i just have to unmute your mic yeah you will need to unmute it you

[1:25:00] Trustee Luckham: unmuted it for a moment there you go

[1:25:01] Voice 10: yeah hello i have a broader question related to the discussion

[1:25:06] Voice 10: earlier with the consultants which has implications on the draft rewrite and understanding of the

[1:25:11] Voice 10: island trust as an agency what procedures exist for the board allowing for education training on

[1:25:19] Voice 10: board governance as trustees are on boarded and what percentage of the islands trust members

[1:25:24] Voice 10: have had education on board governance education slash training on board governance

[1:25:32] Voice 10: and have you taken advantage

[1:25:34] Voice 10: of the provincial offerings

[1:25:36] Voice 10: of trainings of this nature

[1:25:37] Voice 10: by the province? Thank you.

[1:25:43] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Thank you very much,

[1:25:46] Trustee Luckham: Grace.

[1:25:49] Trustee Luckham: We will

[1:25:49] Trustee Luckham: thank you and we'll

[1:25:51] Trustee Luckham: move on to the next speaker.

[1:25:54] Voice 40: Well, there was a question.

[1:25:57] Voice 40: Too quick.

[1:26:01] Trustee Luckham: Did anybody write them down?

[1:26:03] Trustee Luckham: Wonders about

[1:26:03] Trustee Luckham: whether or not we access provincial training.

[1:26:05] Voice 25: Yeah.

[1:26:07] Voice 25: the answer is yes sorry

[1:26:10] Trustee Luckham: about that um the answer to those questions is yes um we we are members

[1:26:15] Trustee Luckham: of the local government uh lgma local government uh

[1:26:19] Voice 32: management

[1:26:21] Trustee Luckham: association and uh indeed that

[1:26:24] Trustee Luckham: training is available and we do the best we can in our orientation session which covers two days

[1:26:30] Trustee Luckham: at the beginning of trust council and there's learning opportunities throughout the

[1:26:34] Trustee Luckham: the term primarily in the beginning of the term we certainly haven't done any refreshes recently

[1:26:38] Trustee Luckham: recently due to COVID, but the answer would be yes.

[1:26:43] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, sorry I missed that.

[1:26:45] Trustee Luckham: Hard to have heard your questions.

[1:26:49] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to go to the next speaker now, David Courtney.

[1:26:55] Voice 36: Hi Peter, can you hear me okay?

[1:26:58] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, your audio is much better, thank you.

[1:27:00] Trustee Luckham: Okay,

[1:27:01] Voice 36: thank you chair for allowing me to speak.

[1:27:05] Voice 36: I guess it's with regards to my letter last night

[1:27:07] Voice 36: on behalf of the patrons of Route 6.

[1:27:09] Voice 36: I think everybody's familiar with the petition that we have that's 2,000 members strong right now.

[1:27:16] Voice 36: I'd just like to read what I've basically given you last night in my letter on behalf of the other individuals.

[1:27:23] Voice 36: Using the agreement between the Ministry of Transportation and Highways and the Islands Trust dated October 1992,

[1:27:29] Voice 36: 1992. Here's the request on behalf of the 2000 petitioners slash residents and rate payers of

[1:27:39] Voice 36: Salt Spring Island and the surrounding communities. The Island Trust Council request Minister Rob

[1:27:47] Voice 36: Fleming of the Transportation and Infrastructure respect the agreement of 1992 and free the

[1:27:54] Voice 36: roadways of Salt Spring Island of ferry traffic gridlock and restore two-way traffic at Vesuvius

[1:28:00] Voice 36: Bay and Fulford Harbor ferry terminals in the name of public safety. The patrons of Route 6

[1:28:07] Voice 36: have suggested the fix for Route 6, which provides immediate relief to ferry traffic gridlock at

[1:28:13] Voice 36: Vesuvius Bay, Crofton, and to a lesser extent, Fulford Harbor ferry terminals, and an extremely

[1:28:19] Voice 36: cost-effective and pragmatic approach using two 40-year-old vessels, which are currently available.

[1:28:26] Voice 36: That's all. I just wanted to table it, Peter. I appreciate the time.

[1:28:31] Trustee Luckham: okay well thank you for uh coming and um and speaking to us today certainly we've received

[1:28:38] Trustee Luckham: uh your emails and your petition and um thank you for that thank you

[1:28:44] Trustee Luckham: i don't see any other

[1:28:46] Trustee Luckham: speakers here today i'll just ask uh if there's another speaker on the line here but otherwise

[1:28:53] Trustee Luckham: i'm going to go to speakers in the room and i think it's just in the eastic um is our first

[1:28:59] Trustee Luckham: speaker in the room. So Jacinthe, over to you.

[1:29:08] Voice 24: Good evening. My delegation was relegated to

[1:29:13] Voice 24: correspondence. So I decided to flesh it out some and relegate it to June. So what I would like to

[1:29:21] Voice 24: talk to you about tonight is the presentation that was given to us or the information that was given

[1:29:29] Voice 24: to us by Marie Antoinette. And I was absolutely thrilled to see that just about all the hands

[1:29:42] Voice 24: went up in interest to sit on this ad hoc interim governance committee.

[1:29:51] Voice 24: I am pleased that devotion did not carry tonight that you are

[1:30:00] Voice 24: going to wait for the terms of reference. I will remind you what she said, because she pretty much

[1:30:07] Voice 24: laid out for all of us who were listening the road ahead. First, decide whether or not you want

[1:30:16] Voice 24: to create a governance committee, not a HADOC, a HUC governance committee. Sorry, the H's in

[1:30:25] Voice 24: In French, it's always a problem.

[1:30:27] Voice 24: She also says, then, decide to appoint or vote for members.

[1:30:33] Voice 24: Decide what you want to do.

[1:30:35] Voice 24: Identify the priorities.

[1:30:36] Voice 24: Trim off the fat, things that you don't really

[1:30:39] Voice 24: have power to deal with, and encumber your actions,

[1:30:46] Voice 24: your way of doing things.

[1:30:51] Voice 24: Mr. Lee Middleton here, he wanted

[1:30:54] Voice 24: to see how to implement the recommendations. Suggestions were made to add two representatives

[1:31:02] Voice 24: from the government of BC into the fray. It's about time that the government realized that

[1:31:09] Voice 24: we are an agency and I was so pleased that finally it was told to us that we're not a

[1:31:16] Voice 24: local government. We shall not act, we are a trust and there is a big difference in this.

[1:31:23] Voice 24: You're not councillors, people.

[1:31:24] Voice 24: You are trustees.

[1:31:28] Voice 24: So I would like to suggest that tomorrow, if you are happy with the terms of references that you're going to be provided, not to create an interim governance committee, to create a governance committee.

[1:31:44] Voice 24: Of course, there's an election in the fall.

[1:31:47] Voice 24: So the term, in effect, will terminate because many members may not run again for trustees, but this would signal, because she also says, you have to figure out how much expertise and what kind of expertise you will need.

[1:32:02] Voice 24: It seems to me that it would signal to her or to those consultants that obviously already have knowledge of us, well, she would be interested if you're creating a governance committee, perhaps, but an ad hoc interim, to me, it's diluting it.

[1:32:22] Voice 24: And then finally, she says, you need to develop the asks to the province.

[1:32:29] Voice 24: What is it that you want the province to help you with and to design it so that it can finally act and you can finally act as what you are, a land trust?

[1:32:43] Voice 24: Thank you.

[1:32:45] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Jacinthe, for the encouragement to move forward on those important issues.

[1:32:50] Trustee Luckham: issues. I'm not seeing any other speakers in the audience and I'm not seeing any other speakers

[1:32:56] Trustee Luckham: online at this time. So I think that will conclude our Trust Council evening session here.

[1:33:02] Trustee Luckham: I want to thank you all trustees for participating in today's session and all the work and members

[1:33:07] Trustee Luckham: of the public watching us today. And we will be reconvening here for our meeting tomorrow morning

[1:33:14] Trustee Luckham: at nine o'clock and we'll be beginning with the executive section of the agenda and

[1:33:26] Trustee Luckham: let everybody know that we'll be moving into trust area services section mid-morning and then

[1:33:34] Trustee Luckham: after the lunch we'll be wrapping up that section and entering into the budget discussion so

[1:33:40] Trustee Luckham: um for us yeah so thank you very much to members of the public and trustees

[1:33:46] Trustee Luckham: and

[1:33:47] Voice 25: can i

[1:33:49] Trustee Luckham: just recess the meeting first trying

[1:33:52] Voice 25: to make sure people run away yeah

[1:33:54] Trustee Luckham: so others ask

[1:33:56] Trustee Luckham: we will recess the meeting and we'll turn off the streaming and the web stuff yes

[1:34:20] Voice 33: so good afternoon

[1:34:26] Trustee Luckham: Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to Trust Council for March the 8th. My name is Peter Luckum, Chair of Islands Trust Council. Today is International Women's Day. I just want to recognize that. I want to thank all the women that are on Trust Council for the work that you do and what you share as women to Trust Council.

[1:34:56] Trustee Luckham: Council. Also at this moment, I want to acknowledge that we're meeting here on Coast Salish Territory.

[1:35:01] Trustee Luckham: I want to acknowledge those women that have embraced and fostered this coast and its families

[1:35:09] Trustee Luckham: and the world in the way that they have. And we find ourselves today here in Nanaimo, it's

[1:35:14] Trustee Luckham: the Nanaimo Territory, and it's an honor every day, a privilege to wake up in this part of

[1:35:21] Trustee Luckham: the world that has such an amazing rich history and culture available for us to investigate and

[1:35:29] Trustee Luckham: i encourage everybody to learn what you can from traditional knowledge it's really sort of a new

[1:35:37] Trustee Luckham: frontier for many of us uh colonialists is the word that i i have to use there but there's

[1:35:46] Trustee Luckham: opportunities for us to learn from traditional knowledge that will open our world and our

[1:35:50] Trustee Luckham: horizons and so uh encourage you all to take advantage of that we were hoping that we might

[1:35:56] Trustee Luckham: have a guest to welcome us here today um that didn't work out um and so this is my humble

[1:36:02] Trustee Luckham: apology and my humble gratitude for living and being here on this coast um i'll just note for

[1:36:11] Trustee Luckham: council's attention before i move to the agenda that there are some new items in an addendum that

[1:36:17] Trustee Luckham: came to you by email for section 17 correspondence otherwise the agenda is as presented um and so i'm

[1:36:27] Trustee Luckham: going to now call the meeting to order and ask is this any additions or deletions from the agenda

[1:36:35] Trustee Luckham: and if you have a digital hand to raise and i'll cover off all this digital raising and

[1:36:41] Trustee Luckham: all that kind of stuff in a moment but i'm not seeing anything and so therefore

[1:36:45] Trustee Luckham: for oh paul brent sorry mr

[1:36:48] Voice 40: over there go ahead paul brent do you have something new to add to

[1:36:51] Voice 40: the agenda i'm just wondering if we would consider reordering

[1:36:55] Voice 41: the agenda and really just to say that

[1:36:59] Voice 41: budget recommendations to council are at 3 15 if they by chance don't finish on

[1:37:06] Voice 41: wednesday could we have them start on thursday

[1:37:09] Voice 40: morning absolutely we wouldn't just flow normally

[1:37:15] Trustee Luckham: into continuing with that but ideally and just a word of caution here is that we really do need to

[1:37:24] Trustee Luckham: end the deliberation on the details of the budget that end up affecting the bottom line

[1:37:28] Trustee Luckham: because staff overnight need to prepare the final result for you for thursday but certainly

[1:37:35] Trustee Luckham: that can continue as necessary thank you all right then thank you um so without seeing any

[1:37:43] Trustee Luckham: other adjustments to the agenda, then I'm going to then take it that we adopt the agenda by

[1:37:49] Trustee Luckham: general consent. So before we lead in to our agenda here, just want to note that, you know,

[1:37:58] Trustee Luckham: this is the ongoing experiment that the Islands Trust has been doing electronic and now hybrid

[1:38:03] Trustee Luckham: meetings. I want to thank all of you that have joined us electronically today. And of course,

[1:38:08] Trustee Luckham: all of you that are in the room here, it's really great to see your sparkling eyes and your and

[1:38:12] Trustee Luckham: and your vibrance as human beings in the room here.

[1:38:16] Trustee Luckham: And as we get into the process of conducting the meeting,

[1:38:19] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to be asking people in the room

[1:38:21] Trustee Luckham: to raise and lower their hands accordingly

[1:38:23] Trustee Luckham: and people on screen to, as best as possible,

[1:38:27] Trustee Luckham: use your digital hands.

[1:38:28] Trustee Luckham: Where that's not possible,

[1:38:30] Trustee Luckham: I'll certainly be trying to watch my screen here

[1:38:33] Trustee Luckham: to see if you physically raised a hand,

[1:38:35] Trustee Luckham: but it is simply easier if you raise your digital hand.

[1:38:39] Trustee Luckham: We'll be conducting voting in that way.

[1:38:41] Trustee Luckham: carmen teal our legislative service manager and secretary of the honest trust is going to assist

[1:38:46] Trustee Luckham: me in counting or actually is going to count the votes rather than me interfering with that to try

[1:38:51] Trustee Luckham: and make that smoother and clearer for everybody and so just that's a heads up on that process

[1:38:58] Trustee Luckham: so with that said um i'll begin um and we're going to get to the governance review in a moment but

[1:39:05] Trustee Luckham: first two items of business are the consent agenda items the november december trust council

[1:39:11] Trustee Luckham: draft minutes and the resolution without meeting report if there's uh no concerns or discussion

[1:39:17] Trustee Luckham: required on either of those two items then we will receive those uh or adopt them and receive them

[1:39:24] Trustee Luckham: for information as indicated on your agenda and so just looking around the room for anybody that

[1:39:29] Trustee Luckham: wishes to speak to either of those and not seeing then we will uh uh uh as indicated adopt the

[1:39:37] Trustee Luckham: minutes and receive for information the resolution without meeting report so this brings us to the

[1:39:43] Trustee Luckham: section for the select committee section and this is the governance review uh session there is an

[1:39:50] Trustee Luckham: outline in your package or how that's going to unfold chair

[1:39:54] Voice 47: excuse me sorry to interrupt and

[1:39:55] Voice 47: could staff knows note that i'm leaving the meeting at this time okay

[1:40:00] Trustee Luckham: thank you scott for

[1:40:01] Trustee Luckham: letting me know that you're there and i apologize to everybody actually and not noting uh those

[1:40:07] Trustee Luckham: folks that are absent or late and indeed Scott Colburn thank you for joining us for the

[1:40:11] Trustee Luckham: introductions and you'll join us later but Laura Beshaken and David Critchley unfortunately

[1:40:18] Trustee Luckham: didn't catch a ferry off of Denman as amazing as the ferry service is there and so they are going

[1:40:24] Trustee Luckham: to be at about an hour late I've encouraged them to join us electronically wanted them to join us

[1:40:29] Trustee Luckham: electronically as a community together if they can also coming late will be Janine Dodds from

[1:40:35] Trustee Luckham: main island uh ben mcconkie won't be joining us until i think that's this evening after six

[1:40:40] Trustee Luckham: o'clock is what i was told and uh uh cameron thorne uh are you online there so then also uh

[1:40:50] Trustee Luckham: absent from the meeting today so just for the record um so let us move on in the agenda here to

[1:41:04] Trustee Luckham: Okay. So I see Deb Morrison's hand up there. And so while I get the page up here,

[1:41:10] Trustee Luckham: Deb Morrison, you have something?

[1:41:12] Trustee Morrison: Yes. I just wondered if we're doing a round of

[1:41:14] Trustee Morrison: introductions of trustees before we start into the select committee or not?

[1:41:20] Trustee Luckham: Normally we would do exactly that, Deb. And I thank you for that. And that's a good way for

[1:41:27] Trustee Luckham: me to actually determine who's in the room and who's not um so let us uh let us start with that

[1:41:33] Trustee Luckham: um without too many introductions i noticed michael kale but that'll give me a chance to get

[1:41:38] Trustee Luckham: up but let's just start with in the room here if you don't mind i'm going to start at the right

[1:41:41] Trustee Luckham: hand side here um with uh and maybe just uh i'm going to turn my mic off and uh and then that'll

[1:41:50] Trustee Luckham: allow you to just and uh and then the camera will switch to you and you could wave when i call your

[1:41:56] Trustee Luckham: name david march from

[1:42:04] Voice 35: main island thank you case

[1:42:11] Voice 38: long arise from gabriela

[1:42:13] Voice 38: steve wright

[1:42:14] Trustee Grove: self bender peter grove salt spring island

[1:42:19] Voice 12: kate louise stanford

[1:42:21] Voice 12: charlton which gambier island laura

[1:42:27] Voice 32: patrick salt spring dan

[1:42:33] Voice 40: rogers i

[1:42:35] Trustee Rogers: just know it takes a second

[1:42:36] Trustee Rogers: and Dan Rogers of Gatsum Keats Island.

[1:42:42] Voice 14: Sue Ellen Fast, and I'm from Nuklelequem,

[1:42:46] Voice 14: also called Polakum, and that's Bowen Island.

[1:42:57] Voice 30: Yeah, Doug Fenton, Thetis,

[1:42:59] Voice 30: and Penelakut and Lioxon Territories.

[1:43:10] Voice 7: Jane Wolverton, Galliano Island, Koselish Lands.

[1:43:15] Voice 41: Paul Brett, Saturna Island, also known as Tektexan.

[1:43:18] Voice 41: Alex

[1:43:21] Voice 16: Allen, Hornby Island, Down City Territory of the Comox First Nations and Salish

[1:43:26] Voice 16: Nations as well, and Grant Scott's hat, because he couldn't be here.

[1:43:31] Voice 16: Thank

[1:43:37] Trustee Middleton: you, Lee Middleton, Saturna Island.

[1:44:04] Voice 40: Trustee Johnson.

[1:44:06] Voice 40: Trustee Johnson, Hockatai, Laskeetee Island.

[1:44:12] Trustee Luckham: Sue, that was a mistake, Deb Morrison.

[1:44:18] Trustee Morrison: Deb Morrison from Steyas, North Pender.

[1:44:20] Trustee Morrison: Today I'm coming in from the traditional territory of the Arapahoe, Woot, Apache, Comancho, Kiowa, Lakota, Pueblo, and Shoshone nations out here in Colorado.

[1:44:31] Trustee Morrison: So thanks so much to everyone for the virtual capacity today.

[1:44:35] Trustee Luckham: Wow. Nice to hear from you. Thank you for that recognition from our friends in the South.

[1:44:41] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Peterson.

[1:44:45] Voice 29: Tim Peterson, Ahuete, Laskete Island.

[1:44:50] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Rockefeller.

[1:44:53] Voice 4: Tahira Rockefeller, Galliano Island.

[1:44:55] Voice 4: i'm

[1:44:59] Trustee Luckham: feeling my list is not quite complete but i think that covers it from here um i just

[1:45:06] Trustee Luckham: want to recognize our guests here while i'm on the screen and then i'm just going to go over to staff

[1:45:10] Trustee Luckham: uh charles kelly with great northern management eric vance also with great northern um and i'm

[1:45:23] Trustee Luckham: seeing a couple of names i don't recognize so i'm not 100 sure about that um but i think charles

[1:45:29] Trustee Luckham: kelly will introduce his members of his team when we get there so i'm just going to go around the

[1:45:33] Trustee Luckham: staff table on that far side i don't know if the camera will pan over there and pick you up or not

[1:45:37] Trustee Luckham: and i actually see two folks over here which i think are from great northern as well

[1:45:41] Trustee Luckham: and so thank you so i'm going

[1:45:43] Trustee Luckham: to start at the far end here uh and just acknowledge mark van

[1:45:48] Trustee Luckham: beeckel who's uh ostensibly looking after our technology really incredibly grateful to all

[1:45:53] Trustee Luckham: the work of you and your team uh julia mobs director of administrative services kate emmings

[1:46:01] Trustee Luckham: uh chair uh i should get your role now are you director now

[1:46:05] Voice 32: manager

[1:46:06] Trustee Luckham: of the allen's trust

[1:46:08] Trustee Luckham: conservancy uh a beacon on the horizon of conservancy in canada uh russ hudson pillar cao

[1:46:16] Trustee Luckham: laurie foster managing our meeting thank you very much for everything carmen teal

[1:46:22] Trustee Luckham: Legislative Service Manager, Secretary of the Alliance Trust.

[1:46:27] Trustee Luckham: Claire Frater, Director of Trust Area Services.

[1:46:30] Trustee Luckham: David Marlin, Director of Local Planning Services.

[1:46:38] Trustee Luckham: Marianne.

[1:46:41] Trustee Luckham: Can I turn that, because we didn't know the management.

[1:46:43] Trustee Luckham: And is it Mr. Vance?

[1:46:46] Trustee Luckham: No.

[1:46:48] Trustee Luckham: I'll let Charles look after that.

[1:46:51] Trustee Luckham: All right, everybody.

[1:46:52] Trustee Luckham: So thank you very much.

[1:46:53] Trustee Luckham: thank you deb morrison for the remembering to introduce everybody um nothing further to say

[1:47:01] Trustee Luckham: from this table the governance review session and um i think i'll just uh i'm looking at lee

[1:47:07] Trustee Luckham: middleton i think i'll just turn it over to uh charles kelly to uh start us off here

[1:47:13] Voice 42: thank you chairman um just a quick note uh to lori there that uh check your email um

[1:47:20] Voice 42: um uh uh sylvan dubois and i sent you his email address so he can come in showed up here as me

[1:47:28] Voice 42: because i sent him the linker anyway uh that aside listen i'd just like to uh uh tell you

[1:47:35] Voice 42: how happy we are to be here after almost 10 months of working on this governance review

[1:47:41] Voice 42: and uh you know we've really had the opportunity to you know to discuss this with every single

[1:47:47] Voice 42: member of the Trust Council in this exercise. There'll be more on that later.

[1:47:54] Voice 42: But let me introduce our team and what the roles that we're going to have here today.

[1:48:00] Voice 42: Number one is I really want to introduce and thank our key government

[1:48:07] Voice 42: expert in Mary Antoinette Plumian and you know she goes by MF and you've all

[1:48:13] Voice 42: spoken to her you know through the exercise of the interviews uh and she'll be the lead spokesperson

[1:48:19] Voice 42: today and and carry the initial presentation as well as uh you know backed up with uh comments

[1:48:27] Voice 42: both um uh jim roach and from eric vance now um mf as you may know is probably one of canada's

[1:48:38] Voice 42: leading experts in governance and uh

[1:48:40] Trustee Luckham: sorry but i wonder if there's anything that can be done about

[1:48:44] Trustee Luckham: your microphone at your end i'm advised because we're getting this nasty bit of feedback in the

[1:48:49] Trustee Luckham: room here that hurts the ears thank

[1:48:51] Voice 32: you does

[1:48:59] Voice 42: that sound better yes it does

[1:49:02] Voice 42: thank you okay sorry about

[1:49:05] Voice 42: that um anyway uh so for the because mf is president of the meeting and she's there with

[1:49:12] Voice 42: with Jim is that MF is, you'll carry the presentation

[1:49:17] Voice 42: and invite the other consultants to come in

[1:49:20] Voice 42: and then she'll act as the moderator

[1:49:21] Voice 42: after we go through this.

[1:49:25] Voice 42: Jim brings special expertise

[1:49:27] Voice 42: in corporate planning and advocacy.

[1:49:29] Voice 42: And Eric is really a true expert in land use planning.

[1:49:35] Voice 42: And we focus here is gonna be on governance,

[1:49:39] Voice 42: but that's a very solid-

[1:49:41] Voice 42: i

[1:49:41] Voice 18: have to interrupt could um sorry for this interruption but could you check your audio

[1:49:46] Voice 18: settings i suspect that your microphone is set to maximum because we haven't been picking up

[1:49:52] Voice 18: this feedback from anybody else okay

[1:49:55] Voice 42: how's that is that better if you

[1:49:58] Voice 18: go into the audio settings

[1:50:00] Voice 18: there is a sensitivity of your microphone so in the

[1:50:03] Voice 18: lower left hand corner there's an up arrow

[1:50:06] Voice 18: over beside your mute button and there's an option for audio settings and you should have a microphone

[1:50:12] Voice 18: and speaker setting and there's a slider bar for each of them and you should be able to adjust the

[1:50:18] Voice 18: sensitivity of your microphone can't

[1:50:35] Voice 32: get to the bottom of this i'm

[1:50:40] Voice 42: only going to have i'm only

[1:50:42] Voice 42: going to have some very brief remarks here so if you can sucker what's going on so

[1:50:57] Trustee Luckham: go ahead uh

[1:50:58] Trustee Luckham: Charles.

[1:51:00] Voice 42: I'll quickly finish this off. We have this one other person who we trust will be joining

[1:51:06] Voice 42: us once Lori sends him the invitation, who was added late, who's a government expert in public

[1:51:14] Voice 42: policy and governance, who had a long career as a major senior public service in the Privy

[1:51:20] Voice 42: Council office. And he's really an expert on public sector law and helped advise us with

[1:51:26] Voice 42: with respect to some of our recommendations.

[1:51:28] Voice 42: But I'll let MF discuss that if there are any questions

[1:51:31] Voice 42: with respect to some of our recommendations there.

[1:51:34] Voice 42: So with that, I'll turn this over to MF

[1:51:36] Voice 42: and just that we've got the pleasure of having a human,

[1:51:39] Voice 42: someone there in person

[1:51:40] Voice 42: and she'll be leading the presentation.

[1:51:42] Voice 42: So I'll see if I can get this mic working in the meantime.

[1:51:46] Voice 42: Thanks so much.

[1:51:47] Voice 42: MF.

[1:51:50] Voice 25: Charles,

[1:52:01] Voice 32: can you turn off your mic?

[1:52:03] Voice 11: Okay.

[1:52:03] Voice 11: Okay, thank you, Charles, and thank you, Mr. Chair.

[1:52:11] Voice 11: We're here to report on the findings

[1:52:14] Voice 11: and we have a presentation that, has it been distributed?

[1:52:18] Voice 11: Yes, Lauren, yes?

[1:52:20] Voice 11: Okay, so everyone has it before them.

[1:52:22] Voice 11: I'm going to speak from that,

[1:52:23] Voice 11: and then we're happy to take whatever questions,

[1:52:26] Voice 11: comments, observations you may have as we get into it.

[1:52:30] Voice 11: This is just to summarize our findings.

[1:52:32] Voice 11: meetings. So, first and foremost, we want to very much thank all of you for the kind of

[1:52:38] Voice 11: cooperation, the participation. We interviewed every single one of the trustees and all senior

[1:52:45] Voice 11: staff. The candor with which you address the kinds of issues and the questions that we put to you

[1:52:51] Voice 11: and any other issues that you will raise during the interviews. Each interview is very different

[1:52:57] Voice 11: because you brought your own personalities

[1:52:59] Voice 11: and your own perspectives to it.

[1:53:01] Voice 11: But it was essential to get to where we're going today

[1:53:05] Voice 11: and where you may take this in future.

[1:53:09] Voice 11: Each of the interviews lasted a minimum of 90 minutes.

[1:53:12] Voice 11: Some went on far longer than that.

[1:53:14] Voice 11: And together with the discussions that we'd had with staff

[1:53:18] Voice 11: over the course of the summer and fall,

[1:53:20] Voice 11: and of course the documentation that they presented to us

[1:53:25] Voice 11: early on in the process,

[1:53:26] Voice 11: And then the very useful interviews we also had with trust staff members, it was well worth this very time consuming effort. And it was very, very labor intensive because the personal engagement with all of you. And you are the ones who shape the findings as I'm going to describe them as we go through.

[1:53:46] Voice 11: I'm moving on to page three of the observations but you've got them before you and I'm assuming

[1:53:53] Voice 11: that people who are joining us virtually have them with them as well so on page three I begin

[1:53:59] Voice 11: the overview of the report and I'm trying to keep sight of you Mr. Chair in case there's something

[1:54:05] Voice 11: you want me to stop at or anything but otherwise I plan to make it through the review with the

[1:54:10] Voice 11: the report with some of my colleagues joining in at the appropriate times. So our findings are

[1:54:15] Voice 11: that there are very fundamental governance issues that need to be addressed in order for Trust

[1:54:21] Voice 11: Council to effectively set direction and provide oversight. Of course, you'll deliberate after

[1:54:27] Voice 11: we're gone as a council on what the report may or what elements of the report you may wish to

[1:54:33] Voice 11: to implement, but some of them do come as a package simply because there are complexities

[1:54:40] Voice 11: inherent with the federated system trust operates under. There are challenges in fulfilling the

[1:54:46] Voice 11: preserve and protect mandate, which you are grappling with on a daily basis. There is a

[1:54:52] Voice 11: need to adapt and respond to dramatic changes in environmental, social, and economic circumstances,

[1:54:57] Voice 11: and to turn this into the most high-performing governance structure that you can bring

[1:55:02] Voice 11: you can bring about. Being more focused on the processes that support dialogue and deliberation

[1:55:10] Voice 11: and outcomes rather than on those that support process. Governance, I think you've heard me say

[1:55:17] Voice 11: in all of the discussions we've had, the issues are systemic and therefore they need to be

[1:55:22] Voice 11: considered in a holistic way. So while at the end of the day you're the masters of your own destiny

[1:55:27] Voice 11: and you may pick and choose, you should be looking at this in a holistic fashion.

[1:55:33] Voice 11: The report does identify areas that need to be addressed.

[1:55:37] Voice 11: It does suggest remedies, but the recommendations are all based on the most important principle

[1:55:43] Voice 11: of governance, that the specific solutions to your own challenges can only be devised

[1:55:48] Voice 11: and implemented by trustees themselves, with staff support, and in some cases for highly

[1:55:53] Voice 11: specialized knowledge outside expertise.

[1:55:56] Voice 11: expertise. In continuing the overview on the next page, page four, the report strongly recommends

[1:56:04] Voice 11: that before you pick up other things, you tackle the fundamental issues of governance

[1:56:10] Voice 11: and then move on to the other areas that you already know need attention. Those can be tackled

[1:56:16] Voice 11: after you've got an effective governance system that you're migrating to, to ensure fundamentally

[1:56:23] Voice 11: the engagement of trustees across the piece, because it's only that way that you can lead

[1:56:29] Voice 11: to sound decision-making and the evaluation of outcomes that you're going to set for yourselves

[1:56:34] Voice 11: for the future. On the next page, I've moved to slide five of the presentation. We identify one

[1:56:42] Voice 11: of the major themes that we heard repeatedly, because we did hear themes, even though each

[1:56:48] Voice 11: each interview was unique. And one of them is the issue of leadership. And there, when I say

[1:56:55] Voice 11: leadership, I'm saying it's a collective. And it requires the active involvement of all trustees,

[1:57:01] Voice 11: not just a few, and not just those who are full time. It's key, because it's a fundamental basis

[1:57:08] Voice 11: on which you build trust with each other. And if that if that's eroded, well, then nothing else

[1:57:13] Voice 11: quite works the way you'd like it to nevertheless there are key positions on council that are very

[1:57:19] Voice 11: important and you spoke to us about this the reform of the process by which individuals are

[1:57:25] Voice 11: selected for these positions should be an early priority the need for thoughtful and informed

[1:57:32] Voice 11: engagement of all trustees in the selection process has been clearly signaled by all of you

[1:57:37] Voice 11: this is crucial to ensure legitimacy and trust as i said earlier and it actually can prevent the

[1:57:43] Voice 11: the development of this in and out faction in councils.

[1:57:47] Voice 11: And quite frankly, the best practices in most areas,

[1:57:51] Voice 11: boards that operate in similar fashions

[1:57:53] Voice 11: is not to have executive committees for that very reason.

[1:57:56] Voice 11: That is the governance best practice.

[1:57:59] Voice 11: You don't have that option

[1:58:00] Voice 11: because the legislative parameters of your structure

[1:58:05] Voice 11: require that the work be conducted in this fashion.

[1:58:10] Voice 11: So I'll just pause there for a sec

[1:58:12] Voice 11: as i move on to page six so on the issue of trust council again it's got to become a deliberative

[1:58:24] Voice 11: body um one way or another using these words and other words um the issues are that the body was

[1:58:32] Voice 11: seen to be too transactional in nature endorsing many of the proposals put before it um sometimes

[1:58:39] Voice 11: with greater understanding sometimes with less and that in becoming a deliberative body you'd be

[1:58:45] Voice 11: far more in the world of of trying to work towards consensus on a whole range of issues

[1:58:51] Voice 11: so that you can come to different accommodations and by the way consensus doesn't mean unanimity

[1:58:58] Voice 11: because nobody's arguing for that um many of you spoke to us about the fact that council is

[1:59:06] Voice 11: unduly encumbered by procedure and not particularly focused on outcomes therefore from the kinds of

[1:59:14] Voice 11: feedback we received from you and from auditing your council meeting since we were given this

[1:59:22] Voice 11: assignment we would say that there are changes required in how agendas are set for meetings

[1:59:27] Voice 11: how the meetings themselves are organized again to be more deliberative and that the briefing

[1:59:34] Voice 11: material be provided in different formats and fashions that make it much more digestible and

[1:59:39] Voice 11: and achievable by you in terms of the decisions that you're being asked to make.

[1:59:45] Voice 11: If I move on to the next page, I'll speak to the committees of council.

[1:59:51] Voice 11: Again, one of the themes.

[1:59:54] Voice 11: Given the very large size of trust council and the relatively infrequent meetings,

[2:00:00] Voice 11: committees have to be the real workhorses of council to build the relationships between you

[2:00:05] Voice 11: to engage all of you in the work of the trust and therefore um that you describe the committees to

[2:00:14] Voice 11: us as the real workhorses of council we also heard from you the committee mandate should be more

[2:00:20] Voice 11: focused that oftentimes because of the nature of so many of the issues you're dealing with that

[2:00:26] Voice 11: they're all coming to a head right now that the numbers of these working committees should be

[2:00:30] Voice 11: increased um the use of subcommittee should be more common to get the work done and that you

[2:00:38] Voice 11: don't feel constrained not to engage outside experts on your committees people who would

[2:00:43] Voice 11: actually sit on the committees uh and who are knowledgeable on some of the issues that you're

[2:00:48] Voice 11: dealing with because at the end of the day the committees advise and it's trust council who

[2:00:53] Voice 11: decides so you need fear of losing control of of what you're working on but you have a broader

[2:00:59] Voice 11: basis for consensus then then there is a view expressed by many that trust council should

[2:01:07] Voice 11: approve all committee appointments and that all trustees need to participate in committees

[2:01:13] Voice 11: and the work of committees because they need to be engaged in the work of of the trust council

[2:01:20] Voice 11: as I said earlier, leadership is seeing something that applies to all members who sit around this

[2:01:24] Voice 11: table. And finally, on the issue of committees, a governance committee is essential to begin the

[2:01:32] Voice 11: process of reform and to work through what may be acceptable or not in this report and how you

[2:01:40] Voice 11: would move forward to the next steps of what you intend to do. So that's the end of committees for

[2:01:47] Voice 11: for now the next page as i move to page eight is the important role of the secretary to council

[2:01:54] Voice 11: the secretary is prescribed by your own legislation as an officer of council and appointed by council

[2:02:02] Voice 11: this officer should support and advise the council in collaboration with the chief administrative

[2:02:08] Voice 11: officer because we want those two roles working together and of course other senior staff of the

[2:02:14] Voice 11: the trust as well through the cao but it should report to trust council through the chair the

[2:02:21] Voice 11: nature of the secretary's duties require some independence from trust staff council should rely

[2:02:27] Voice 11: on the secretary for advice and guidance in the course of its work to ensure the appropriate flow

[2:02:32] Voice 11: of information for decision making to liaise between trustees to ensure trustee compliance

[2:02:38] Voice 11: with proper procedure to coordinate amongst trustees to improve the efficiency of council's

[2:02:44] Voice 11: operations and to help overall to enhance the decision making of council working with the cao

[2:02:50] Voice 11: and senior staff but reporting to council itself the secretary in our judgment needs to be an

[2:02:58] Voice 11: independent source of assistance and advice for all of you sitting at the trust council table

[2:03:03] Voice 11: moving on to page nine on strategic planning i'll turn it over to my colleague mr roach

[2:03:11] Voice 11: good afternoon

[2:03:13] Voice 5: well a corporate or a business plan those are the two most common terms used

[2:03:20] Voice 5: which is a multi-year plan uh reviewed annually and includes both strategic and financial

[2:03:28] Voice 5: components this is probably the most powerful tool that a board or council has by which it

[2:03:36] Voice 5: can set direction and which it can hold management responsible for performance so the financial the

[2:03:46] Voice 5: strategic component sets the direction that has to both have objectives and initiatives

[2:03:54] Voice 5: establishing priorities allocating resources and setting measurable performance targets

[2:04:01] Voice 5: Now, many of these components already exist within the audience trust, but they're not integrated into a single unified process that allows for optimal decision making, taking account of the relative value of various initiatives and reconciling them against scarce resources and outcomes.

[2:04:24] Voice 5: comes. I've seen this at each of the council meetings that I've monitored and I think it's

[2:04:31] Voice 5: important that the sense of fairness and of equity that can result from all things being on the table

[2:04:38] Voice 5: at the same time so that they can be evaluated against one another as well as against the

[2:04:43] Voice 5: absolute targets or measures of resource availability is important. So advocacy then

[2:04:51] Voice 5: then, is part of that plan, but it's really part of a communications and engagement strategy that's

[2:04:57] Voice 5: included in the plan, because advocacy alone doesn't really have a role unless it's tied to

[2:05:05] Voice 5: the objectives of the council itself. It should support them, and it should help achieve them.

[2:05:13] Voice 5: So, in our view, because there's no end to advocacy or communications and engagement,

[2:05:20] Voice 5: engagement you're going to have to set priorities which is the nature of the planning process where

[2:05:25] Voice 5: you make choices and then allocate your resources accordingly but more than that you then decide

[2:05:32] Voice 5: where your advocacy activities are going to be uh focused and largely it seemed to us that they

[2:05:38] Voice 5: should be focused on what could broadly be thought of as stakeholder relations which is to say

[2:05:43] Voice 5: your communications and your engagement with residents of the trust area

[2:05:50] Voice 5: and with the multiple parties within the government of British Columbia

[2:05:55] Voice 5: that have so much interest, influence, and sway over what happens in your area.

[2:06:05] Voice 5: We've seen now just recently the creation of a new ministry

[2:06:09] Voice 5: within the government of British Columbia,

[2:06:11] Voice 5: which is looking after a number of areas that are of direct importance to the trust

[2:06:16] Voice 5: and cultivating relations with all of the people who are involved in those things,

[2:06:20] Voice 5: not to mention the ones with agriculture, with forestry,

[2:06:24] Voice 5: and of course your own municipal department are essential

[2:06:28] Voice 5: so that decisions they make reflect your views and take account of your interests.

[2:06:39] Voice 5: MF?

[2:06:40] Voice 11: Thank you, Jim.

[2:06:42] Voice 11: Jim next I hope that you're out there Eric I can't see you but if you are Eric will speak to

[2:06:49] Voice 11: the local planning services and if not I'll take it back on because we do have as you've seen in

[2:06:56] Voice 11: the report a significant effort went into the local planning services area but we do stand by

[2:07:01] Voice 11: the view that before implementing those recommendations it's important to first

[2:07:05] Voice 11: address the governance issues and to wait for the completion of the policy statement review process

[2:07:10] Voice 11: Eric, are you out there?

[2:07:12] Voice 37: I am.

[2:07:13] Voice 37: Good afternoon, trust council.

[2:07:16] Voice 37: Can everybody hear me?

[2:07:19] Voice 37: Okay, thank you.

[2:07:20] Voice 37: I'd like to start off by acknowledging that I'm located

[2:07:26] Voice 37: on the, I'm sorry, is there feedback coming?

[2:07:34] Voice 37: Gosh, is anybody else getting feedback or is it just me?

[2:07:38] Trustee Luckham: It's

[2:07:38] Voice 37: just you, we're

[2:07:39] Trustee Luckham: fine here, thank you.

[2:07:40] Voice 37: Okay, all right, I'll try to ignore my own feedback.

[2:07:43] Voice 37: I'd like to start off by acknowledging that I'm

[2:07:46] Voice 37: I'm on the traditional territory of the Quincy people,

[2:07:49] Voice 37: which is Maple Ridge, Pit Meadows and surrounding area.

[2:07:53] Voice 37: So as MF was just saying,

[2:07:55] Voice 37: a number of the recommendations that came out

[2:07:57] Voice 37: of the local planning services review really should wait.

[2:08:02] Voice 37: Some of the other issues are addressed and resolved.

[2:08:06] Voice 37: Some things that are relatively minor

[2:08:08] Voice 37: that could take place sooner

[2:08:10] Voice 37: and shorten up planning reports.

[2:08:13] Voice 37: courts uh nothing unique about that in uh yeah i'm

[2:08:20] Trustee Morrison: sorry eric the feedback is actually very

[2:08:22] Trustee Morrison: difficult to make you understandable for us i'm

[2:08:25] Voice 33: wondering if the trustees

[2:08:26] Trustee Morrison: account in the room can

[2:08:28] Trustee Morrison: be muted thank you we

[2:08:33] Trustee Luckham: are all muted in the room here and um perhaps we'll just see what the tech

[2:08:38] Trustee Luckham: staff have to say yeah

[2:08:40] Voice 37: um does that sound any better now i'm not getting the feedback it was

[2:08:44] Voice 37: was a moment ago was that better okay good well technology anyways um yeah some of the

[2:08:50] Voice 37: recommendations that came out of uh the review certainly should wait till a number of other

[2:08:55] Voice 37: issues are resolved certainly there's some significant uh budget implications uh in some

[2:09:01] Voice 37: of the recommendations particular respect to uh updating consolidating the ocps but there are some

[2:09:07] Voice 37: shorter term things that take place i was just mentioning uh trying to write shorter planning

[2:09:12] Voice 37: planning reports. That's not unique to Islands Trust. I don't know what it is with planners.

[2:09:16] Voice 37: We have a tendency to want to write lengthy reports more so than is necessary. Delegation

[2:09:24] Voice 37: of minor DVPs, that's probably something that could happen fairly quickly, but certainly there's

[2:09:30] Voice 37: some other issues that need to be held off on. And the whole issue of the OCPs, I mean,

[2:09:38] Voice 37: most of them are dated and I get it. It's a challenged update in OCP, a lot of work,

[2:09:47] Voice 37: but it needs to be done. I don't think the consolidation of the OCPs is a particularly

[2:09:52] Voice 37: challenging process. I know there may be some concern that in consolidating, you know, some of

[2:09:58] Voice 37: the islands are going to lose their unique identity. And I don't think that's the case at

[2:10:02] Voice 37: at all. But I mean, it seems to me that what is really needed is a good current understanding

[2:10:10] Voice 37: of what the carrying capacity is of a number of the islands. There's a saying in planning

[2:10:16] Voice 37: circles around forever, you can't plan for the future if you don't know what the present looks

[2:10:21] Voice 37: like. And I know on a number of islands, there's been studies done and there's bits and pieces

[2:10:26] Voice 37: of the present understood, but I don't think in a comprehensive way, there's a good understanding

[2:10:32] Voice 37: what the carrying capacity is of all the islands and in fact in the draft policy statement it

[2:10:38] Voice 37: doesn't use those words but there is a very powerful new policy that's been added in there

[2:10:44] Voice 37: and if i just might i'd like to quote it says local trust committees and island municipalities

[2:10:49] Voice 37: shall in their official community plans and regulatory bylaws ensure that growth and

[2:10:55] Voice 37: development of any scale or for any purpose is compact, energy efficient, sustainable and

[2:11:03] Voice 37: appropriately situated in order to minimize greenhouse gas emissions and safeguard protected

[2:11:09] Voice 37: area networks, freshwater sustainability, a healthy marine environment and Indigenous cultural

[2:11:15] Voice 37: heritage in the trust area. So without using the words carrying capacity, that is what that policy

[2:11:22] Voice 37: is really all about. And it strikes me until the policy statement, either as is or in some

[2:11:27] Voice 37: modified form, is adopted. And if this policy remains in there, there is going to be a lot of

[2:11:34] Voice 37: work required for some of those OCPs to get to those very critical issues that are identified

[2:11:40] Voice 37: in that policy statement. So, you know, I'd suggest that on average, two years to complete an OCP. I

[2:11:46] Voice 37: think in some cases for certain of the islands, it probably could be completed a lot quicker.

[2:11:51] Voice 37: or in other cases it may be a more challenging uh process so clearly obviously uh very significant

[2:11:57] Voice 37: uh budget implications associated with that uh moving on from that uh the uh uh and there is

[2:12:07] Voice 37: there is um the uh one of the trustees sent some questions ahead of time there's one that

[2:12:12] Voice 37: really intrigued me which is okay we get it we can't have a regional growth strategy but

[2:12:18] Voice 37: But, you know, are there elements or things that we could do that would make the policy statement more like an RGS in some form?

[2:12:26] Voice 37: And it strikes me looking at the policy statement, which is really all you have to drive islands wide what's going on.

[2:12:34] Voice 37: What's missing is a spatial element to it. There's no mapping. And if you look at an RGS, normally there would be.

[2:12:40] Voice 37: So it seems to me as part of the policy statement, maybe there could be some mapping done that sort of identifies at a high level what the carrying capacity of each of the islands is, and that then leads into the OCP review.

[2:12:56] Voice 37: So a lot of technical details there, but it's something that certainly needs to be done.

[2:13:02] Voice 37: on something I picked up on as well,

[2:13:06] Voice 37: greater cost recovery for land use applications.

[2:13:09] Voice 37: So I understand it and you've seen the statistics

[2:13:11] Voice 37: in the planning report.

[2:13:13] Voice 37: The number of applications is growing every year.

[2:13:16] Voice 37: Some of them are becoming more complex.

[2:13:19] Voice 37: I think the budgeted application fees collection

[2:13:23] Voice 37: for this fiscal year was just above $100,000.

[2:13:27] Voice 37: That's not very much money for all the work

[2:13:30] Voice 37: that I suspect is going into some of those reviews.

[2:13:33] Voice 37: And I know that that is a subject that is being addressed

[2:13:36] Voice 37: or looked at by staff trying to get a greater cost recovery.

[2:13:41] Voice 37: What the right number is, I don't know,

[2:13:43] Voice 37: but certainly should be more than what it is.

[2:13:45] Voice 37: That concludes my remarks right now.

[2:13:47] Voice 37: I'll turn it back over to MF.

[2:13:51] Voice 11: Thank you, Eric.

[2:13:54] Voice 11: And finally on to the conclusion of this work.

[2:13:58] Voice 11: work so i'm on page 14 of the presentation and this is the last thoughts we want to leave you

[2:14:07] Voice 11: with in terms of the overall approach that we're advocating and it's how you manage this transition

[2:14:13] Voice 11: that you're undergoing because you're undergoing it on many dimensions not just because we're

[2:14:18] Voice 11: commenting on it and move to a more modern approach to governance taking into account

[2:14:24] Voice 11: count the best practices that we can pick up from lots of corridors.

[2:14:27] Voice 11: So the first is one I've already mentioned.

[2:14:29] Voice 11: It's the establishment of a governance committee of trust council to

[2:14:33] Voice 11: consider these recommendations and others that you may have in mind.

[2:14:38] Voice 11: Then to determine which ones you're going to proceed with.

[2:14:41] Voice 11: And then what would that roadmap look like?

[2:14:43] Voice 11: That's kind of crucial because if you don't know where you're going,

[2:14:46] Voice 11: you're likely to get somewhere else.

[2:14:49] Voice 11: We think the secretary to council is a key resource for this committee,

[2:14:53] Voice 11: as well as for Trust Council and for the implementation generally, underscoring the

[2:14:58] Voice 11: need for this position's independence. We also would say that given the cost pressures you're

[2:15:04] Voice 11: under and given the alignment that you may be moving to or the different position you may be

[2:15:11] Voice 11: moving to that will require even greater alignment, that you in the near future launch a management

[2:15:18] Voice 11: review to undertake a view of ensuring that you do align between trust council your new approach

[2:15:25] Voice 11: to governance the role of management in supporting all this we would also say that you need a review

[2:15:32] Voice 11: to identify measures needed to ensure the validity of any cost increases or depending on the decisions

[2:15:40] Voice 11: you make about budgeting in future and i'm looking out because this year's is already set

[2:15:45] Voice 11: how you want to implement recommendations and you want to see if you want to offset

[2:15:50] Voice 11: any of the corresponding costs some of which are inherent but not necessarily to assume that they

[2:15:57] Voice 11: all are leading to greater costs because as far as we're concerned the recommendations we're making

[2:16:02] Voice 11: should be viewed as cost neutral and then finally on the last page we come back again to the view

[2:16:11] Voice 11: that I haven't mentioned yet about the engagement of trustees

[2:16:15] Voice 11: with the provincial government, provincial government influencers,

[2:16:20] Voice 11: provincial government direct decision makers,

[2:16:22] Voice 11: and having a good understanding of how you are also aligning

[2:16:27] Voice 11: to provincial priorities and objectives or trying to alter some of those.

[2:16:32] Voice 11: But it's essential that that dialogue take place in a robust fashion

[2:16:35] Voice 11: with all of Trust Council.

[2:16:37] Voice 11: and and personally we were we were surprised uh the province did not want to engage but they did

[2:16:43] Voice 11: not engage with this review um governance reform isn't going to be the responsibility of one or two

[2:16:51] Voice 11: or even a handful of people on the council it is the responsibility of all trustees

[2:16:58] Voice 11: as is the task of addressing the many challenges that you're confronting for the future

[2:17:02] Voice 11: and this is why we say that engagement is key and we're calling for the full participation

[2:17:09] Voice 11: development of this sense of unity and common purpose amongst trustees and the only way to

[2:17:14] Voice 11: build that is with a much greater sense of engagement on all your parts. I will also

[2:17:20] Voice 11: acknowledge that we've received comments from many of you. We'll see how they come up in the

[2:17:26] Voice 11: questions if not we can always after the fact provide you written answers for those that you

[2:17:32] Voice 11: would require but i'll leave it at that so that you can deliberate and we can listen take notes

[2:17:38] Voice 11: or respond to the questions that you have thank you all

[2:17:47] Trustee Luckham: right so does that charles conclude your

[2:17:50] Trustee Luckham: presentation and we'll go to questions from trustees uh

[2:17:58] Voice 42: yes and uh and i think when we get

[2:18:00] Voice 42: to some of the questions. It might be easier to facilitate the dialogue to have

[2:18:06] Voice 42: MF act as a moderator for this particular special session. Okay,

[2:18:14] Trustee Luckham: thank you. So I'm going to ask

[2:18:17] Trustee Luckham: by way of a show of hands, both in the room and electronically, and I'll try to mix it up between

[2:18:26] Trustee Luckham: folks in the electronic venue and here to ask questions. So let's have a show of hands and

[2:18:34] Trustee Luckham: on the screen, please keep your digital hands up. And I'm just going to make a speaker's list here

[2:18:39] Trustee Luckham: of those in the room. So Michael Kale, Laura Patrick, Kate Louise, Ann, Sue Ellen, Lori,

[2:18:53] Trustee Luckham: Steve, Jane, looks like everybody. Paul. Okay, well, that's a good start. And I see hands up

[2:19:02] Trustee Luckham: on the screen i think i saw trustee johnson's hand up but it disappeared now um um so let us uh

[2:19:10] Trustee Luckham: not seeing anybody's hand up on the screen then i'm going to go to the hands up in the

[2:19:17] Trustee Luckham: room here serves me right for writing fast i think it was michael kale this first uh

[2:19:27] Voice 19: thank you chair

[2:19:28] Voice 19: uh perhaps uh and if i can address this question to yourself uh firstly thank you by the way for

[2:19:35] Voice 19: this incredible report. I can't tell you what a guiding light it's going to be.

[2:19:40] Voice 19: I'm going to ask you about the Office of the Secretary to Trust Council, because it's a

[2:19:46] Voice 19: subject which I, and I think probably many of us, are less familiar. Could you expand on what you

[2:19:53] Voice 19: feel the advantages of this appointment would be for trustees, and maybe give us an idea of what

[2:20:01] Voice 19: What sort of background would this individual come from when they're appointed?

[2:20:09] Voice 11: I'm going to have Jim also help me answer this question because the two of us are proponents of the advice, so I'll let him start.

[2:20:16] Voice 11: Well,

[2:20:19] Voice 5: in terms of background for a secretary to a board, generally, you'll want someone who is part parliamentarian, part process-oriented, and able to have the credibility with the members of the board itself to provide advice and to be confided in.

[2:20:40] Voice 5: I mean, go through the duties of what a secretary generally does.

[2:20:44] Voice 5: It includes providing the board with information that they need in the course of their duties.

[2:20:50] Voice 5: That is to say, to determine with them what an appropriate agenda is, what kind of related documents and information are required,

[2:20:58] Voice 5: what kind of other information that might be requested in order for them to facilitate their discussion and consideration.

[2:21:05] Voice 5: But it's also to assist and advise board members in terms of questions or issues that they're grappling with, and basically to ensure that board members not only comply with procedures that are required of them, but to liaise between the board members so that they connect better.

[2:21:26] Voice 5: And coming back to MF's theme, which is recurrent, recurrent, recurrent, which is that more collaboration and collegiality and consensus building and the role of the secretary in doing this thing.

[2:21:38] Voice 5: Also, if you're coordinating among board members to raise sufficiency about the board's operations and to ensure that decision making is more effective, your role is not one of management.

[2:21:50] Voice 5: Your role is one of the council itself.

[2:21:52] Voice 5: I mean, generally speaking, one of the primary roles, obviously, of the Trust Council is to oversee and to take regard of what management is doing.

[2:22:05] Voice 5: So there's an element of a conflict of interest that exists when you have the secretary of the board, who's the linchpin in terms of advice, also essentially being part of management.

[2:22:16] Voice 5: So the division of them is classic.

[2:22:20] Voice 5: Classic. It exists in many, many organizations, most organizations, certainly crown corporations or private sector and any number of others.

[2:22:29] Voice 5: And it's useful to both management and to the council, I think, because it delineates the roles and makes it clear.

[2:22:36] Voice 5: It doesn't in any way exclude or diminish the role of management, which is to provide the advice and to provide the material and to ensure that the board is informed in a timely way.

[2:22:47] Voice 5: it's informed in a complete way and that it has accurate information that's still the responsibility

[2:22:53] Voice 5: of management but the responsibility of the secretary is to make sure that the board gets

[2:22:58] Voice 5: what it needs so they work together and many of the things that the secretary is responsible for

[2:23:06] Voice 5: are actually just requests to management and good feedback it also i think would be a boon

[2:23:11] Voice 5: to management if i were management i speak not on behalf of anyone else but myself

[2:23:16] Voice 5: So I'd rather be doing, I'd rather be managing my organization rather than be managing the board.

[2:23:23] Voice 5: I don't think that's my job particularly.

[2:23:25] Voice 5: I think someone else should be working with the board.

[2:23:28] Voice 5: So that's partly an answer to one of your questions.

[2:23:32] Voice 5: I'm not sure where you want to go from there, MF.

[2:23:36] Voice 11: I just add to that that COVID is part of the issue that bedevils the whole world right now.

[2:23:45] Voice 11: And by that, I mean that for many of you, we heard a sense of isolation, a sense of not feeling supported.

[2:23:53] Voice 11: And that's not because people aren't supporting you.

[2:23:55] Voice 11: It's because of the nature of the support that board members need, which are different from the information flows to you and the work of your staff who's providing you with issue specific matters that are appropriate in a bureaucratic context.

[2:24:11] Voice 11: It was that sense. And then that's further exacerbated by the fact that your entire world over the last period of time has been virtual. And therefore, there has been that kind of glue missing, which is essential to the good functioning of a group of people that have to come together and come to agreements on how they are going to proceed.

[2:24:33] Voice 11: Those are mediated in some cases. The consensus is forged through having strong, independent opinions that sometimes conflict. But that's all part of the healthy democratic process. And we felt that coming out of COVID, one of the essential ingredients that was required here, yes, it's the role of the chair. Yes, it's the role of the chairs of committees. Yes, it's the role of each and every one of you to step up to the plate.

[2:24:59] Voice 11: But what would facilitate, what would encourage and put on a faster time horizon this ability to be working together as a team?

[2:25:11] Voice 11: And that's a separate role from the team that you have as your bureaucratic team providing you with the good information that they provide you for for decision making on a whole range of fronts.

[2:25:23] Voice 11: um we also thought that there should be a sort of overhaul which a secretary of the board could

[2:25:29] Voice 11: help with in terms of the way information is presented to you for decision making because

[2:25:35] Voice 11: those binders they go on forever um part of that is your own desire to make sure that

[2:25:46] Voice 11: no stone has been left unturned but that's expensive time and money and i'm not sure that

[2:25:53] Voice 11: but oftentimes it would lead to actually better decisions.

[2:25:56] Voice 11: It may actually lead to you not being able to get through all that material

[2:25:59] Voice 11: and understand it all.

[2:26:01] Voice 11: And there's time and money component to that.

[2:26:03] Voice 11: And there's also a component to that, that as a result of that,

[2:26:07] Voice 11: you may be spending time on the wrong things.

[2:26:09] Voice 11: It goes back to the issue of being less deliberative and more transactional.

[2:26:14] Voice 11: So that's how we came to the conclusion of secretary to the board might be

[2:26:20] Voice 11: the best approach to link all these pieces together.

[2:26:22] Voice 11: other i'll

[2:26:23] Voice 5: just add one other thing uh related to the difference between the secretary and the

[2:26:27] Voice 5: let's say the chief administrative officer the secretary doesn't have a point of view

[2:26:31] Voice 5: secretary is there and preoccupied only with ensuring that board members have timely accurate

[2:26:38] Voice 5: and complete information to do what they need to do chief administrative officers must make

[2:26:43] Voice 5: recommendations they have a point of view uh it's not that they don't do what board does so

[2:26:49] Voice 5: So these are different interests, and they should be reflected in different positions.

[2:26:54] Voice 5: And that's why in most organizations, corporate organizations, you see that this difference

[2:27:00] Voice 5: is recognized.

[2:27:04] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[2:27:05] Trustee Luckham: I think that concludes that answer.

[2:27:08] Trustee Luckham: And so I'm going to now go to Laura Patrick, Salt Spring Island, next.

[2:27:15] Voice 15: I want to thank you.

[2:27:16] Voice 15: I'm sure you have a better appreciation of the complexities of this organization and

[2:27:21] Voice 15: some of the significant challenges that we face on some islands like mine on salt spring

[2:27:26] Voice 15: i hope you enjoyed your visit on salt spring and i think you probably got an earful from the people

[2:27:31] Voice 15: that you met with on salt spring i'm sorry i couldn't have met you while you were there and

[2:27:36] Voice 15: given you a tour um you make reference to in the report to previous work in regard to proportional

[2:27:43] Voice 15: representation of trust council understanding that the islands trust act was outside the scope

[2:27:49] Voice 15: Do you feel the issue of representation may be contributing to the lack of consensus around shared vision and strategic direction and a means for getting there?

[2:28:01] Voice 11: We reflected it in terms of an issue in the theme because it was raised by lots of people, right?

[2:28:09] Voice 11: Lots of people.

[2:28:13] Voice 11: Could we say that that more than anything is leading to some of these governance conundrums that we're dealing with?

[2:28:20] Voice 11: I'm not sure.

[2:28:22] Voice 11: But if many of you think it is, then it has to be something that's addressed in the governance review, right?

[2:28:30] Voice 11: So Salt Spring clearly feels it.

[2:28:34] Voice 11: And I think there are a lot of, personally, now I'm speaking, I don't know how my colleagues feel about this.

[2:28:41] Voice 11: There are lots of unanswered questions that still have to be dealt with in terms of the Salt Spring referendum that weren't kind of picked up and nobody ran with that ball, right?

[2:28:51] Voice 11: Right. Because with the with the way the referendum went, those issues come back to this table.

[2:28:59] Voice 11: And therefore, if they're unresolved and continue to be unresolved, at least in terms of the dialogue and how you as a group decide to advance them or park some of them is going to continue to be an issue that festers.

[2:29:11] Voice 11: So that would be my my comment on it again.

[2:29:15] Voice 11: And at this point, it's not my personal views we're reflecting.

[2:29:19] Voice 11: Collecting, it's what are the irritants that lie behind some of your words sometimes as you're dealing as a collective, right?

[2:29:25] Voice 11: Because you're being called upon as a collective to make decisions.

[2:29:30] Voice 11: Does that answer the question from your perspective?

[2:29:36] Voice 11: I think there's a

[2:29:37] Trustee Luckham: follow-up there for clarity.

[2:29:40] Trustee Luckham: Well, I'll just go around and come back to you, if that's all right.

[2:29:45] Trustee Luckham: Kate Louise Stanford.

[2:29:46] Trustee Luckham: I'm

[2:29:48] Voice 12: just wondering, in your experience, have you found a similar structured organization to ours of this size?

[2:30:00] Voice 12: I'd also like to see examples of how this position of secretariat works.

[2:30:05] Voice 12: So I'm still not quite visioning it and how it relates to other local government or special purpose governments.

[2:30:15] Voice 12: So I'm just wondering if you've seen anything that somewhat resembles our organization in terms of structure and size.

[2:30:24] Voice 5: One of the things that accurately representatives of the Islands Trust repeat is that this is a unique form of government.

[2:30:32] Voice 5: And I can quote your chair, I can quote your own documents that say that.

[2:30:36] Voice 5: So, no, I don't have an example of a similar organization because there isn't one that I'm aware of in any event.

[2:30:42] Voice 5: But there are there are any number of organizations of various configurations who use the office of secretary and have it report to the chair.

[2:30:54] Voice 5: That is probably the default position. So we can do a survey of any number of them and see them.

[2:31:03] Voice 5: I think it may be less common in some municipal organizations where the secretary, effectively, the duties of a secretary are combined with that of the chief administrative officer.

[2:31:16] Voice 5: I think that can be the case in some municipal organizations.

[2:31:20] Voice 5: But once you move out of there, not very often.

[2:31:24] Voice 5: Now, it doesn't mean that the same person can't have two jobs, but that is another exercise.

[2:31:30] Voice 5: So what I mean to say is that in some cases, a person as secretary, I'll give you a Crown Corporation that I'm aware of, the secretary reports to the chair, but the secretary is also the general counsel, and as the general counsel, he reports to the CEO.

[2:31:45] Voice 5: So you can see that game going on too.

[2:31:48] Voice 5: And that can work in some cases.

[2:31:49] Voice 5: It's certainly not as clean.

[2:31:52] Voice 11: I was just going to add that again to your uniqueness.

[2:31:54] Voice 11: weakness um you've got one of the most burdensome and heavy governance structures that i've ever

[2:32:03] Voice 11: seen for an organization this size okay so we were told up front the access scope we have made

[2:32:11] Voice 11: recommendations on adding membership which are the only area where we've stepped over the line

[2:32:16] Voice 11: of going into the act but to me they were obvious for other reasons which we can come back to um

[2:32:22] Voice 11: So, if you're dealing with what you're dealing with, if we weren't given the opportunity to reflect or focus on the issue of representation that was raised by your colleague, if we had to assume that the world as we know it, in terms of 26 people at a minimum, fulfilling these roles and functions was a status quo that we were given to deal with and that you're having to deal with,

[2:32:49] Voice 11: what would it take to break the log jam on a series of issues right so where do you see a

[2:32:57] Voice 11: secretary in this kind of mode you do see it in public sector organizations where they function

[2:33:05] Voice 11: kind of on the periphery of government which is kind of what you are for on the periphery

[2:33:13] Voice 11: provincial government you see it in organizations where there's a very high premium on the small

[2:33:20] Voice 11: all the political reality, which you also have, right?

[2:33:25] Voice 11: In terms of the structure of trust council,

[2:33:28] Voice 11: as compared to the structure of the staff that supports you at the

[2:33:33] Voice 11: bureaucratic level.

[2:33:34] Voice 11: And then you have to explore the issues of why are things.

[2:33:39] Voice 25: I'm not going to touch the level from this volume here.

[2:33:42] Voice 25: Yeah.

[2:33:44] Voice 32: We talking right now.

[2:33:49] Voice 32: Was

[2:33:59] Trustee Luckham: that David Beeston chiming in there for some reason?

[2:34:04] Trustee Luckham: was okay so uh sorry for the disruption uh go ahead mf okay

[2:34:10] Voice 11: i i was going to come to the fact

[2:34:12] Voice 11: that if one of the things that ails how things are working right now um are the issue of

[2:34:19] Voice 11: relationships be that because of covid be that because you haven't had the opportunity to see

[2:34:25] Voice 11: each other and engage with each other in a normal fashion which a group of 26 people requires

[2:34:31] Voice 11: because of the interactions you must have on a whole range of issues as you deliberate towards

[2:34:36] Voice 11: a conclusion, then what kind of mechanisms exist out there where we're not breaking completely new

[2:34:45] Voice 11: ground, where we could show you how they work in other environments that are similar, if not

[2:34:50] Voice 11: identical, where this unique issue of the relationship between you should be dealt with,

[2:34:56] Voice 11: Right. So the secretary, the way we struck, we're proposing it is a support to you as trustees, right, to deal with the sense of isolation that many of you have felt, to deal with the sense of connecting you together in a different way, to deal with making sure that information flows to all of you in equal ways, that there's a focal point for you to be able to go and seek advice on those kinds of issues.

[2:35:22] Voice 11: issues. You also have through the CAO and the staff and senior staff focal points for other

[2:35:27] Voice 11: pieces of advice that you will need and information and so on and so forth. But I think in the way

[2:35:33] Voice 11: Jim and I have described it, we've tried to distinguish the difference amongst those roles.

[2:35:38] Voice 11: And you know, the thing about governance is we never get called in to fix a problem at the front

[2:35:49] Voice 11: run end. When everybody has tried everything else, they've done management reviews of the

[2:35:54] Voice 11: Azus, they've done budget exercises, they've done this, they've done that, they've done the other,

[2:35:58] Voice 11: and it's still not working. Oh, then maybe they go, that word governance, what does it mean,

[2:36:04] Voice 11: right? Well, part of this governance stuff is the intangibles of relationships, right? So in

[2:36:10] Voice 11: addition to everything that Jim has said, I would also add that because I think that when we peel

[2:36:16] Voice 11: it all away there's something here that's got to be addressed in terms of relationships okay thank

[2:36:25] Trustee Luckham: you i'm going to uh if that's all right with council i'm going to go to deb morrison online

[2:36:29] Trustee Luckham: there to try and mix it up with electronic participants and in the room participants

[2:36:33] Trustee Luckham: and then i'm going to go to dan rogers and swell and fast thank

[2:36:38] Trustee Morrison: you so um i i noticed in the

[2:36:41] Trustee Morrison: governance report that it that when you talk about the secretary it it says that um that we should

[2:36:49] Trustee Morrison: appoint person. However, it caused me, that section caused me to go back to the act and

[2:36:54] Trustee Morrison: look at the act. And the act actually says that we must appoint a secretary and a treasurer.

[2:37:01] Trustee Morrison: And so I was surprised that you mentioned one, but not the other. And I'm wondering if you can

[2:37:06] Trustee Morrison: comment on, first of all, the sort of like, it's nice to have versus must in the act. And also

[2:37:12] Trustee Morrison: that combination of like the secretary versus trust the, sorry, treasurer.

[2:37:18] Voice 5: Yeah. We didn't

[2:37:19] Voice 5: mean to say that we were inventing a new idea that you must appoint a secretary we meant to

[2:37:23] Voice 5: convey the idea that that secretary should report to trust council through the chair that was the

[2:37:28] Voice 5: the new thing not that there should be a secretary it's clear under i think section 17 of the act

[2:37:34] Voice 5: that uh the the requirement for the appointment of a secretary the distinction between a secretary

[2:37:39] Voice 5: and treasurer i think has to do simply with uh much to do with what mf has just been talking about

[2:37:45] Voice 5: uh the treasurer has a has a role that relates to a financial fiduciary duty it has to do with

[2:37:52] Voice 5: probity of management uh and it's usually occupied by someone who does indeed report

[2:37:58] Voice 5: to the chief administrative officer and as much as that is essentially part a key part of his

[2:38:04] Voice 5: responsibilities and duties so uh the two roles are not the same uh the secretary is focused as

[2:38:10] Voice 5: as IMF says, on the relationships, first of all, of the members of the trustees amongst themselves,

[2:38:17] Voice 5: but also the relationship between the trustees and the management, which is why you typically

[2:38:22] Voice 5: wouldn't have someone from that side in charge of that. Whereas the treasurer is an integral part

[2:38:28] Voice 5: of the management structure of an organization and must report in almost every circumstance I've

[2:38:34] Voice 5: ever seen to the chief administrative officer.

[2:38:36] Trustee Morrison: I guess the question was more about that it

[2:38:40] Trustee Morrison: It literally says in the act that the trust council must appoint the treasurer.

[2:38:44] Trustee Morrison: And so right now, that's not what's happening as far as I understand it anyway.

[2:38:48] Trustee Morrison: So that was an interesting find.

[2:38:51] Trustee Morrison: So thank you.

[2:38:51] Voice 5: I'm not aware of that, but it's in the act.

[2:39:03] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Deb.

[2:39:04] Trustee Luckham: Although there are appointments that do happen when those positions change.

[2:39:09] Trustee Luckham: It's not like we're outside of the scope of the legislative requirement.

[2:39:13] Trustee Luckham: The roles of what the suggestion is here, if I'm not mistaken.

[2:39:18] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to go to Sue Ellen Fastenix.

[2:39:21] Voice 14: Thank you, Chair.

[2:39:23] Voice 14: Thank you for this review.

[2:39:24] Voice 14: I always welcome a review.

[2:39:26] Voice 14: It gives you a chance to strengthen your organization.

[2:39:29] Voice 14: And I'm intrigued by the suggestion that I'm reading,

[2:39:33] Voice 14: which is the idea that we're an agency as opposed to a local government.

[2:39:40] Voice 14: And I'm sorry, I'm trying to look around and missing my microphone.

[2:39:45] Voice 14: phone. I'm seeing on page six, it says the trust status as a special purpose agency of the BC

[2:39:53] Voice 14: government. And when I look for the word democracy, I find on page 18, the democratic selection of

[2:40:00] Voice 14: trustees means that certain areas of expertise and competency will be missing from trust council.

[2:40:06] Voice 14: So more of a bug than a feature. And yet we're used to thinking of ourselves as a local government.

[2:40:11] Voice 14: So if you're suggesting that we become an agency with the skills and competencies and direction that I see more like zero-based budgeting or something that is focused on goals, if you are suggesting we become more of an agency than local government, can you describe how we would get there?

[2:40:36] Voice 14: Because I didn't see that sort of, that was a big gap for me. Thank you.

[2:40:46] Voice 14: Or maybe I'm mistaken.

[2:40:52] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:40:53] Voice 11: I think I've got, I might, can you hear me?

[2:40:55] Voice 11: Yeah.

[2:40:56] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:40:57] Voice 11: You are an agency in legal parlance.

[2:41:03] Voice 11: And you're kind of your second definition because you want to be,

[2:41:13] Voice 11: but there isn't the kind of clarity around that,

[2:41:16] Voice 11: that you'd like there to be.

[2:41:19] Voice 11: Because if you were exactly like everybody else at local government,

[2:41:22] Voice 11: you wouldn't have the act you have.

[2:41:24] Voice 11: right so um i didn't bring my notes with me to parse that the answer for you in terms of the

[2:41:35] Voice 11: various pieces of legislation that sylvan and i reviewed sylvan's a lawyer by training in public

[2:41:40] Voice 11: law um and we did on the issue of um employment relationships for example that russ has also

[2:41:48] Voice 11: raised and other things we did look at a whole bunch of bc acts to see how they were created

[2:41:55] Voice 11: uh and where yours is different because sometimes you can't tell what you are until you compare

[2:42:00] Voice 11: yourself to other things right um so we're not suggesting you become one or the other

[2:42:07] Voice 11: we think that provide you've got lots of scope within your act there's some things that if i

[2:42:14] Voice 11: was queen for a day i would change but there's lots of scope within your act for you to monitor

[2:42:19] Voice 11: to modernize your governance practices. There's lots of scope within your act for you to evolve

[2:42:25] Voice 11: in the way that consensus will allow you to evolve. And there's lots of advice you can seek

[2:42:33] Voice 11: to let you know when you're walking up against one of those things that you'll have to come back to

[2:42:39] Voice 11: do. But you're not exactly like every other local government. You're not. Sorry, I can't. I'm sorry.

[2:42:45] Voice 11: trying to talk into the microphone you understand so you're not exactly the same

[2:42:49] Voice 11: as every other local government that's not the purpose you were created for

[2:42:56] Voice 11: and while you take on some of those responsibilities you don't take them all on

[2:43:00] Voice 11: right and even in your own behaviors the the frequency and the hesitancy with which you use

[2:43:10] Voice 11: your taxing authorities tell you something about how you view yourself you know sometimes

[2:43:16] Voice 11: Sometimes follow the money.

[2:43:17] Voice 11: Sometimes follow, there are lots of other things

[2:43:19] Voice 11: we could follow in terms of how you make decisions

[2:43:22] Voice 11: and the areas in which you choose to make decisions.

[2:43:25] Voice 11: They're not good or bad.

[2:43:26] Voice 11: I'm not trying to assign any value to that.

[2:43:29] Voice 11: I'm just saying that we look for clues

[2:43:33] Voice 11: in the legislation that guides you

[2:43:35] Voice 11: and the policies and procedures that surround you,

[2:43:38] Voice 11: some of which are your own,

[2:43:39] Voice 11: some of which come from the provincial government.

[2:43:42] Voice 11: And then we look at your behaviors, right?

[2:43:44] Voice 11: And again, behaviors, I'm not imputing value to that. I'm just saying what you choose to do, how you choose to do it, the processes by which you engage each other to come to those decisions, how effective and efficient your decision making is.

[2:43:58] Voice 11: and by the way I'm not fussed by the fact that some of your deliberations take a long time

[2:44:04] Voice 11: because some of the issues you're grappling with look at the policy review those are huge issues

[2:44:11] Voice 11: that are going to materially impact on what this organization and what the trust area looks like

[2:44:18] Voice 11: in future so it it's not bothersome that it takes a long time to come to those issues

[2:44:25] Voice 11: How you come at those issues with the least amount of rub, allowing for the greatest amounts of opinions to be expressed, and then the consolidation of how you work towards making decisions, that's kind of the nub of what this is about.

[2:44:41] Voice 11: So I've strayed from your question, but I think you're not fish nor fowl, right?

[2:44:49] Voice 11: Right.

[2:44:57] Voice 5: Oh, I was just going to add and have a comment. Please make it.

[2:45:01] Voice 5: But I was perhaps a little more mundane. But you can sort of tell that you're an agency by a number of other factors.

[2:45:09] Voice 5: I mean, for example, you do report to a minister of the crown. Municipal governments don't do that.

[2:45:16] Voice 5: Agencies do that. There are directive powers in your act which allow the government of British Columbia to either allow things to happen or to instruct other things to happen.

[2:45:27] Voice 5: And these, again, are characteristics, generally speaking, of an entity that the government of British Columbia is intent on keeping a certain amount of control of and its powers derived from it in a more direct way than the municipal governments do.

[2:45:40] Voice 5: So the hints that MF was talking about, about how you determine whether or not you're an agency, they're scattered throughout any number of places.

[2:45:48] Voice 5: But certainly those are distinctive characteristics.

[2:45:55] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. I'm going to go to Laura Beshaken, MNILA.

[2:46:02] Voice 9: hi and thank you on okay good uh thank you ed very thought-provoking um report um i have a

[2:46:10] Voice 9: number of questions um but i'll start with one and leave it up to the chair if he wants to come

[2:46:17] Voice 9: back to me and it is going back i know we've already discussed it a bit this proposed secretary

[2:46:21] Voice 9: position um because it sounds like that's almost the one of the first would be if i understand

[2:46:28] Voice 9: stand correctly the one of the first items of business to carry on with this um and it would be

[2:46:35] Voice 9: um it would be costly because it's a full-time staff position um so we need to understand it

[2:46:41] Voice 9: and we currently have an executive secretary that who works closely especially with executive

[2:46:47] Voice 9: committee and council and but reports to the cao and then we also have a legislative services

[2:46:54] Voice 9: services manager that I think does some of the work, I think is considered to be part of this

[2:47:00] Voice 9: position you're suggesting. So are you thinking that that executive secretary position should be

[2:47:08] Voice 9: restructured and re-envisioned? Or are you thinking that we do need another full-time position?

[2:47:16] Voice 11: Thank you, Laura. First, I'd say that my first recommendation is you need a governance committee

[2:47:21] Voice 11: and I wouldn't start cherry picking other stuff

[2:47:23] Voice 11: until you guys as a group

[2:47:25] Voice 11: consider the full scope of things here.

[2:47:29] Voice 11: Secondly, it is a separate position.

[2:47:31] Voice 11: It reports to the board or to the council.

[2:47:35] Voice 11: It reports through the chair to council.

[2:47:39] Voice 11: So it's not, if we thought it was as simple

[2:47:43] Voice 11: as a cobbling together of what you currently have

[2:47:46] Voice 11: and could that get you to where you're going,

[2:47:49] Voice 11: we didn't think that was it.

[2:47:50] Voice 11: We think it's a materially different position, probably a more senior position, and one that has, Jim put it very nicely, I said small P political, Jim said that they were parliamentary skills, the ability to work with all of you at Trust Council.

[2:48:09] Voice 11: So it's not the same, but Jim may have something further to add.

[2:48:14] Voice 11: Well,

[2:48:15] Voice 5: just how you would organize under the secretary and whether or not you would, how much more effort or resources or dollars would result from this change remains to be seen.

[2:48:27] Voice 5: I mean, typically, this Office of Secretary doesn't have a large establishment underneath it.

[2:48:32] Voice 5: It leans on the administration of the entity itself to provide what's required,

[2:48:40] Voice 5: whether obviously the briefing material to the Trust Council has to come from management.

[2:48:46] Voice 5: The secretary can't write that briefing material.

[2:48:48] Voice 5: It must come from management.

[2:48:50] Voice 5: So the secretary's job is to coordinate that.

[2:48:52] Voice 5: logistics related to meetings of the board and there's so many of them uh not just the trust

[2:48:59] Voice 5: council but the ltcs as well uh that can be handled uh there can be an administrative arrangement

[2:49:05] Voice 5: and agreement whereby that's done by existing staff as it is now it's just that there's now

[2:49:09] Voice 5: a secretary who has an over overall um care and supervisory role to uh to play in respect of it

[2:49:18] Voice 5: so it doesn't have to cost a lot more uh there could be savings elsewhere uh someone's doing

[2:49:24] Voice 5: most of this work now so in the end you you try to see how you can even it all out too bad

[2:49:30] Voice 5: everything doesn't add up nicely and easily where add one here and take one away there because it's

[2:49:36] Voice 5: multiple people doing fractions of a job but over time and in place you should be able to

[2:49:43] Voice 5: manage that okay

[2:49:48] Trustee Luckham: thank you same question or i'll come back to you i'll come back to you yeah

[2:49:57] Trustee Luckham: um steve wright you're next on the list uh

[2:50:01] Voice 39: thank you chair um this is sort of an expansion of

[2:50:05] Voice 39: trustee fast questions and what the report did identify was there uh the lack of consensus and

[2:50:11] Voice 39: even misunderstanding on the part of trustees and probably more so within the public and that is on

[2:50:18] Voice 39: on the purpose of the honours trust,

[2:50:20] Voice 39: the role of trustees,

[2:50:25] Voice 39: even to the extent of the wording

[2:50:28] Voice 39: and the definition of our mandate,

[2:50:34] Voice 39: and even the role of council.

[2:50:37] Voice 39: But what it comes down to is that this question

[2:50:39] Voice 39: has come up before in council before,

[2:50:41] Voice 39: and that is we have been calling ourselves

[2:50:45] Voice 39: a local government when in fact,

[2:50:47] Voice 39: we are continuing to statute as a public trust and the two are not the same and you have

[2:50:53] Voice 39: conservancies and you have nature trust organizations that do govern land use within

[2:50:59] Voice 39: their region that does not make them a local government neither does it make the island's

[2:51:04] Voice 39: trust simply because we govern land use a local government and so i'm wondering whether the

[2:51:09] Voice 39: confusion of those two differences and how we define ourselves and how we portray ourselves

[2:51:15] Voice 39: ourselves is part and parcel of the problems that we're experiencing that you have identified

[2:51:19] Voice 39: throughout your report for which i thank you very much for by the way i

[2:51:27] Voice 11: think you summarize it

[2:51:28] Voice 11: pretty succinctly in your commentary and i have to say that when i look at the act uh you clearly

[2:51:35] Voice 11: were not intended to be a local government you're intended to take on some characteristics when it

[2:51:41] Voice 11: came to some aspects of land use planning um you were intended to take on characteristics when it

[2:51:47] Voice 11: it came to uh democratic concepts of election and representation um even if not based on population

[2:51:57] Voice 11: um but that's probably the biggest reason why i just scratched my head at where the province has

[2:52:05] Voice 11: been on all this um your engagement with them our hearing from them as to what their intent was

[2:52:12] Voice 11: And by the way, my own view is that it's a pretty good act that would permit you and allow you to move in many directions with the blessing of the province.

[2:52:25] Voice 11: And that's why you're an agency, not a local government. Right.

[2:52:28] Voice 11: There are directive powers in there. If you were to ask for certain things about moving in these in certain directions.

[2:52:35] Voice 11: but it's not clear that as a group you have consensus around those issues and therefore

[2:52:41] Voice 11: it makes it very hard for anybody looking at you and coming up with recommendations for you to say

[2:52:47] Voice 11: aha here's your path because those are questions that you are going to have to understand

[2:52:55] Voice 11: and come to some kind of view around this table before someone can then tell you the

[2:53:01] Voice 11: modalities of how you organize for A or B or C or D. And then it's a function of there are more

[2:53:09] Voice 11: efficient ways of organizing and there are less efficient ways of organizing, but it all has to

[2:53:16] Voice 11: start with what is it that you want to be when you grow up? What is it that you want to be for

[2:53:22] Voice 11: the next 25 years? When you look out 50 years to this very unique part of Canada, what does it

[2:53:30] Voice 11: represent and continue to represent for you, for the citizens of British Columbia, and as a beacon

[2:53:36] Voice 11: to the world in terms of how you manage a very complex governance model that continues to deal

[2:53:45] Voice 11: with the unique nature and qualities of what you all espouse to. Because the one thing that we did

[2:53:51] Voice 11: pick up in all of the consultations and the interviews that we ran with you is your desire

[2:54:00] Voice 11: to make this work in spite of the situation

[2:54:06] Voice 11: you find yourself in.

[2:54:09] Voice 11: And that's a commitment that you all share.

[2:54:12] Voice 11: And that's kind of the most important thing

[2:54:14] Voice 11: around which you then can build the sense of unity

[2:54:17] Voice 11: and solidarity, even if it's not unanimous or identical.

[2:54:21] Voice 11: There's enough here that you have going for you

[2:54:24] Voice 11: that with the right structures that allow you to talk

[2:54:28] Voice 11: and deliberate will bring you to conclusions

[2:54:30] Voice 11: conclusions that if you don't agree with 100 you can go a long way to seeing your way in it

[2:54:35] Voice 11: because the interviews that we conducted have you all there right none of you addressed that

[2:54:43] Voice 11: issue specifically but you addressed it in every answer you gave us so you're not a local government

[2:54:49] Voice 11: you have some characteristics of a local government and then what's the environmental scan

[2:54:55] Voice 11: Again, part of it is in the policy statement, but you haven't coalesced around it, of how has the world changed and what do you want to be in 50 years?

[2:55:09] Voice 11: And then put your shoulder to the wheel and getting behind what it takes to get there.

[2:55:14] Voice 11: And where you need to act more like a local government, what would you say to the provincial government about what tools you may need to get there?

[2:55:28] Voice 11: Because you have to come to some agreements.

[2:55:30] Voice 11: you have to fashion what some of those options are and then you engage the conversation during

[2:55:37] Voice 11: that time and ultimately with the ministers who have responsibilities for the areas that you want

[2:55:44] Voice 11: to move into and of course that also presumes that you've had those consultations with the

[2:55:48] Voice 11: constituents you represent and there's got to be room for that sliver of your mandate that talks

[2:55:55] Voice 11: about for the citizens of all british columbia thank

[2:56:02] Trustee Luckham: you very much mf um i'm gonna go to uh dan

[2:56:06] Trustee Luckham: rogers and then jane overton thanks

[2:56:13] Trustee Rogers: very much and uh it certainly was uh interesting reading

[2:56:19] Trustee Rogers: um i had a just a flag i i sent a series of questions in prior to them and i don't think

[2:56:27] Trustee Rogers: any of them have really been addressed i'm going to because we're you know we're all trying to get

[2:56:32] Trustee Rogers: our questions and hopefully i can ask two questions um one is uh one is that um you made

[2:56:45] Trustee Rogers: some interesting commentary around the committee structure and i agree with you completely that

[2:56:49] Trustee Rogers: the committee structure can be the can be the workforce of the um uh of the trust and thank

[2:56:56] Trustee Rogers: you for that reflection and for some suggestions around that um i was concerned that however

[2:57:02] Trustee Rogers: However, because your report is public and that there were some factual mistakes in the way you described, for example, the Financial Planning Committee.

[2:57:13] Trustee Rogers: And that concerns me because those are being repeated.

[2:57:16] Trustee Rogers: And I wondered if that my first question is, are those some of those mistakes going or errors or misunderstandings going to be corrected?

[2:57:26] Trustee Rogers: And secondly, my second question is a little broader.

[2:57:30] Trustee Rogers: and I'm sorry, I'm taking the liberties

[2:57:33] Trustee Rogers: because it's a different question,

[2:57:35] Trustee Rogers: is one of the things you said today

[2:57:37] Trustee Rogers: is we should aim for cost neutrality

[2:57:40] Trustee Rogers: of the changes that you propose.

[2:57:44] Trustee Rogers: And I wonder how you envision that

[2:57:47] Trustee Rogers: because I can think of at least four recommendations

[2:57:50] Trustee Rogers: that you make that I might agree with,

[2:57:52] Trustee Rogers: but they all cost money.

[2:57:55] Trustee Rogers: For example, the corporate secretary,

[2:57:56] Trustee Rogers: I think perhaps surprisingly, you recommended that trustees get paid more.

[2:58:06] Trustee Rogers: We, you know, you recommended that we, and we heard today that we should be doing extensive work around what carrying capacity means.

[2:58:19] Trustee Rogers: And I think we were quite rightly flagged that that's a big piece of work that's ahead.

[2:58:25] Trustee Rogers: And there were other recommendations in there, including increasing the number of committees, all of which that have to be staffed, et cetera, et cetera, or resourced, not staffed, but resourced.

[2:58:35] Trustee Rogers: I wondered if you've given any thought to how we could possibly do all of those things and still be cost neutral, particularly given we're having a fairly challenging budget discussion tomorrow, and I think you're aware of that, as to how we get there.

[2:58:54] Trustee Rogers: because I because my immediate reaction to your report was there's some good things in here but

[2:58:59] Trustee Rogers: they're all going to cost a lot of money and we're already getting and I wondered if you had some

[2:59:03] Trustee Rogers: or are you just leaving that to us to figure out thanks those are my two questions for now

[2:59:11] Voice 11: uh thank you Mr. Chair and through you to Dan um so first of all if there are errors in the report

[2:59:19] Voice 11: yes we will correct them uh I'm not sure that some of the things that people have identified

[2:59:23] Voice 11: as errors that we would agree that they're errors but yes if they're errors we should correct them

[2:59:29] Voice 11: so we will make that commitment uh and especially in terms of uh it's circulating publicly for sure

[2:59:36] Voice 11: uh and we'll have to take some care to make sure that if there are errors that they're corrected

[2:59:40] Voice 11: in that way uh secondly um in terms of the things that will cost more money i don't know why

[2:59:49] Voice 11: uh people would assume that things are so perfect that nothing that you're currently

[2:59:54] Voice 11: doing should be examined for why it should be continuing to be being done and that is

[3:00:00] Voice 11: we have said in there because the time was finite for this for this review um the money was even

[3:00:09] Voice 11: more finite than the time because we over committed in terms of the effort that we put into this

[3:00:14] Voice 11: because of the commitment that we heard from all of you in terms of the interviews we conducted

[3:00:20] Voice 11: um we did recommend that a way of addressing this is to launch a management review asap

[3:00:27] Voice 11: that before there are a couple of things you have to do in common while you're having discussions

[3:00:32] Voice 11: about what it is that you want to do from a governance perspective and appropriately costing

[3:00:38] Voice 11: those elements you're also undertaking a management review to see what you might stop doing

[3:00:45] Voice 11: and what you might order in a different fashion than what you have um and i think uh from my

[3:00:53] Voice 11: management perspective and then we did not do a management review because that's not the nature

[3:00:58] Voice 11: of this beast um and that's not the nature of your priority issues in terms of what um what

[3:01:06] Voice 11: you've got to address sooner than later um we didn't do the management review part um so the

[3:01:13] Voice 11: management review part's got to be conducted immediately because we think that there ought

[3:01:17] Voice 11: ought to be savings. And I don't think today's the appropriate time to get into that, nor did

[3:01:24] Voice 11: we examine it in great detail, but I'm happy to pass on to Russ my own personal views on some of

[3:01:32] Voice 11: these things. And I would extend that to any member of the consulting team as well. So I'll

[3:01:39] Voice 11: leave it at that. And Jim would like to add something. Well,

[3:01:41] Voice 5: I don't want to get into a

[3:01:43] Voice 5: but take ms point about if there's errors we'll certainly want to correct them but i would just

[3:01:48] Voice 5: point because you did say that you had provided them in advance and i did look at them um the

[3:01:54] Voice 5: ones that i saw relate to text on pages 17 and 18 of the report and on page 18 of the report

[3:02:01] Voice 5: what seems to be in contention is the statement that the executive committee appoints two other

[3:02:09] Voice 5: members of the financial planning committee points might be the wrong word uh the executive committee

[3:02:16] Voice 5: identifies them nominates them um otherwise suggests to trust council as a whole that they

[3:02:23] Voice 5: should ratify them uh but so that i i take a little bit of exception that this is a

[3:02:29] Voice 5: uh false statement but i certainly will correct the language so that it says exactly what the

[3:02:35] Voice 5: case is the fact remains that these two other positions on financial planning are identified

[3:02:42] Voice 5: and named by the executive committee and subsequently ratified by the trust council

[3:02:46] Voice 5: on page 17 there is i i fought myself for this little loose language up there on the first

[3:02:54] Voice 5: paragraph where it says executive committee members are sit ex officio on all of the committees of

[3:02:58] Voice 5: council well they do except what i meant to say was that executive committee is represented

[3:03:04] Voice 5: Ex Officio and all other committees of council, but not that all executive committee members sit

[3:03:09] Voice 5: on all other committees. So there is a looseness of language there that I would be happy to correct

[3:03:15] Voice 5: and will. So as far as I know, those were the two points that had been raised. And as I said,

[3:03:22] Voice 5: we will correct them accordingly.

[3:03:26] Trustee Rogers: With respect, there are 10 members of the Financial Planning

[3:03:30] Trustee Rogers: Committee, and I've identified them all. And three of them come from the Trust Council generally,

[3:03:35] Trustee Rogers: only is and four come from the executive and three come from the chairs in the various committees

[3:03:39] Trustee Rogers: so i just want to make sure that that's clear we don't that these because the insinuation in the

[3:03:44] Trustee Rogers: report is the executive committee dominates the financial planning committee and it is a minority

[3:03:49] Trustee Rogers: voice on the financial planning committee i just want to make sure that's clear i'm not i'm not

[3:03:53] Trustee Rogers: arguing with it's just that's the way the structure goes i'm

[3:03:57] Voice 5: not arguing either i'll just say that uh

[3:04:00] Voice 5: the point that we were trying to make was that the executive committee either by virtue of its

[3:04:04] Voice 5: sex officio participation on the financial committee or by its nomination of two other

[3:04:09] Voice 5: members of the financial committee uh is deeply involved in six of the 10 members

[3:04:17] Trustee Luckham: okay thank you um obviously there's lots of room for discussion on lots of issues here

[3:04:22] Trustee Luckham: but i've got on my speakers list here uh jane wobleton paul brent alex allen and then i've

[3:04:29] Trustee Luckham: got some second speakers and i might address um the committee myself but a case longer i'm going

[3:04:35] Trustee Luckham: going to insert after Alex Allen. So go ahead, Jane.

[3:04:40] Voice 7: Okay. Thank you for the report. It's always

[3:04:44] Voice 7: helpful to, as people have mentioned, to have an external look at any organization.

[3:04:50] Voice 7: And I appreciate the comments about the effect of COVID on how we have functioned and how

[3:04:58] Voice 7: what our cohesiveness or lack thereof has been. I found that the presentation was actually clearer

[3:05:04] Voice 7: than the report and the report I found was a little bit disjointed um and and there uh there

[3:05:13] Voice 7: were mistakes um for example uh Galliano's uh comprehensive OCP review was 2011 not 1995

[3:05:22] Voice 7: um so those things I hope will be uh corrected um and I also noticed that there are some

[3:05:31] Voice 7: recommendations and i'm wondering if the fact that we already do them if they were simply being

[3:05:37] Voice 7: restated for example uh recommendation seven on page 31 talks about um trustees receiving

[3:05:44] Voice 7: post-election briefings and workshops uh covering both procedural and substantive matters um

[3:05:51] Voice 7: those those are held and um so i wasn't sure if that was just a

[3:05:58] Voice 7: whether you thought they weren't being held or whether they're just there because they should

[3:06:03] Voice 7: be held. So that's one question. The other, because I guess these things, if you're reading

[3:06:13] Voice 7: this report from outside council, then you would be wondering whether or why that isn't being done.

[3:06:19] Voice 7: And also there's a comment on page 44

[3:06:24] Voice 7: about the allocation or assignment of budget

[3:06:28] Voice 7: to the projects where we pass project charters

[3:06:32] Voice 7: for all of our projects,

[3:06:33] Voice 7: which outline the budgets for that.

[3:06:35] Voice 7: So that was another, I'm not sure,

[3:06:42] Voice 7: why that was written as it is.

[3:06:45] Voice 7: I agree that we need a governance committee.

[3:06:47] Voice 7: I think that's a great recommendation

[3:06:50] Voice 7: So those are my comments and questions for now.

[3:06:56] Voice 11: I'll just I'll tackle your first question first and Jim might want to jump in as well.

[3:07:04] Voice 11: Yes, we know they're being done. We know from staff that briefings are conducted and we know from many of you that briefings are conducted and it was a direct question in the questionnaire that you all answered.

[3:07:17] Voice 11: And the reason it's there is because I'm searching for the adjective that I would put in front of it.

[3:07:27] Voice 11: Some of you, but a significant some, don't remember ever having been briefed.

[3:07:34] Voice 11: So, again, we're not assigning blame.

[3:07:39] Voice 11: We're saying that if you were briefed at the start of your term, and the event was so earth shattering and earth shaking that you don't remember it happened,

[3:07:48] Voice 11: happened, maybe we ought to look at how those briefings were conducted. Maybe we ought to look

[3:07:54] Voice 11: at the fashion in which, whether it's COVID, whether it's whatever, the refreshers we need

[3:08:02] Voice 11: to conduct those briefings in such a way that makes this group as optimally functional as it

[3:08:08] Voice 11: can be. So we're not trying to invent issues. What we try to do through those interviews

[3:08:15] Voice 11: was hold up a mirror to what you see when you look at the function of trust council

[3:08:21] Voice 11: and reflected back when we thought that we ran into an issue that was a significant

[3:08:29] Voice 11: my goodness we better put a flag around this because it's impeding the functionality of

[3:08:35] Voice 11: trustees and council as a whole so that's that's how would i would address that answer

[3:08:41] Voice 11: uh if we wanted to say it that way in the recommendations we could say it that way in

[3:08:48] Voice 11: the recommendations but too many people didn't remember those briefings having occurred

[3:08:55] Voice 5: on um i understand there are project charters and the point in the report was not to suggest

[3:09:02] Voice 5: that there weren't the point in the report was to say that as i tried to convey my earlier remarks

[3:09:09] Voice 5: about this to a corporate plan is that these projects uh exist uh in an unassembled uncoordinated

[3:09:18] Voice 5: way with other activities and they should be seen more holistically there are over 100 top priority

[3:09:26] Voice 5: projects right now pending so i don't care really whether they have project charters the fact is is

[3:09:35] Voice 5: that they are not being uh implemented so there needs to be a better process by which projects

[3:09:41] Voice 5: are considered and decisions are taken not just that they're a top priority but that they proceed

[3:09:47] Voice 5: and if they don't proceed they're clearly are not top priority uh but those those projects

[3:09:52] Voice 5: is only one set of them there's another set of projects that exists uh inside uh the trust

[3:09:58] Voice 5: council itself which is what you have sometimes called a strategic plan in which some people

[3:10:04] Voice 5: People have taken umbrage that I suggested that it's not a strategic plan.

[3:10:08] Voice 5: It addresses about 2.5% of your entire annual financial budget.

[3:10:15] Voice 5: So how you could think of it as the strategic plan for Trust Council would be difficult.

[3:10:22] Voice 5: But that particular envelope of projects exists outside of these 100 top priority projects that exist elsewhere.

[3:10:31] Voice 5: And then there are walk-in projects on top of that.

[3:10:33] Voice 5: so the point wasn't that there weren't project charters the point was pull this stuff together

[3:10:39] Voice 5: and look at it collectively and understand uh where you want to put your resources which are

[3:10:44] Voice 5: very scarce okay

[3:10:51] Trustee Luckham: thank you again uh paul brent mr mr

[3:10:55] Voice 42: chair i think eric would like to comment on the

[3:10:58] Voice 42: uh ocp issue um

[3:11:01] Trustee Luckham: is that somebody on uh the line there sorry yeah

[3:11:05] Voice 42: it's charles kelly and and uh

[3:11:07] Voice 42: Eric Vance, our land use planning expert, wants to comment on the OCP issue in Galliano.

[3:11:16] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[3:11:17] Trustee Luckham: So let's go ahead on that, and then we'll come back to Paul Brandt.

[3:11:20] Voice 37: Yeah, thank you for that.

[3:11:23] Voice 37: Just briefly, I'd seen the email on that, and thank you.

[3:11:27] Voice 37: It went back.

[3:11:28] Voice 37: The Galliano OCP, Bylaw 108, was adopted in 1995.

[3:11:35] Voice 37: 1995. And like a lot of the OCPs, they would have been updated piecemeal, you know, certain issues

[3:11:42] Voice 37: from time to time. So I'm not sure what happened there. Because I mean, if there was a comprehensive

[3:11:47] Voice 37: review done in 2011, normally, what would have happened is the existing OCP bylaw would have

[3:11:54] Voice 37: been rescinded, and a new bylaw would have been adopted with a new bylaw number and a new date on

[3:12:01] Voice 37: So, I mean, that remains at least on the surface on the website. It's a 1995 bylaw with some amendments since then, unless perhaps the review was done and it concluded that there didn't need to have to be that many changes made.

[3:12:16] Voice 37: So just stuck with the same bylaw number, more of a technical issue.

[3:12:21] Voice 37: I think the more important point is if there was a bylaw or an update or comprehensive review done in 2011, that's 11 or 12 years ago now.

[3:12:31] Voice 37: So it's certainly due for another one. Thank you.

[3:12:37] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. Let us now go to Paul Brent.

[3:12:42] Voice 41: It was a very complex report, and I thank you for it.

[3:12:48] Voice 41: On the last slide you've got here, engagement by trustees with provincial government influencers and decision makers to ensure alignment with provincial priorities and objectives will also be essential.

[3:13:02] Voice 41: And I heard a couple of things in the presentation. I heard under the response to Trustee Fast's discussions about agency that the ministry wants some form of control of the trust.

[3:13:17] Voice 41: So that's why we have this act. I also heard, I believe, MF say, I scratch my head as to what the province intends. In reading the report, I also heard that the structure that we operate under is burdensome. I read in the report that there's misunderstanding of the object, and that's been going on for decades.

[3:13:41] Voice 41: And so I guess what I'm wondering here is, is where does the province, where is the province in all of this other than absent?

[3:13:52] Voice 41: And wouldn't it to some degree make sense for the trustees, for trust council to approach the province and say, can you help us here?

[3:14:04] Voice 41: The province funds governance and services studies, the ministry does.

[3:14:09] Voice 41: And so why wouldn't they fund a management review or even another governance review?

[3:14:16] Voice 41: Is that not a way forward that minimizes the amount that taxpayers expend?

[3:14:25] Voice 41: I mean, we've already expended $75,000 on this excellent report.

[3:14:29] Voice 41: Thank you.

[3:14:31] Voice 41: But I'm wondering, is there some reality there?

[3:14:35] Voice 41: I know you weren't really looking into the whole issue with the province, but is that a way forward in your view?

[3:14:46] Voice 11: In my humble view, Paul, before you approach the province, you should have a better sense of where you want to go.

[3:14:52] Voice 11: Because just going to the province and saying we can't agree on our future direction and we're not even sure whether it's a bread box or a refrigerator or the size of a shopping mall isn't a way to get the kind of reaction you're hoping from them.

[3:15:16] Voice 11: So I'd say do a little bit of work, decide the issues on which you think you need help, and then hone in on those and then engage the province on those couple of issues that it's going to take to get over your current challenges.

[3:15:35] Voice 11: I don't think you can just go right now and say we need help.

[3:15:41] Voice 11: I think you have to come to some conclusions around this table.

[3:15:45] Voice 11: and maybe it's as simple as saying we're establishing a governance committee it is

[3:15:50] Voice 11: looking into one two three four and um is there any kind of expertise that you can provide us

[3:15:57] Voice 11: um and then of course how you fund that expertise would be a question you might also have for them

[3:16:03] Voice 11: um and and you're off to the races but i think you need to go to them with a little bit more

[3:16:09] Voice 11: more definition around the ground you're trying to bring people closer together on because

[3:16:15] Voice 11: governments don't like the open-ended kind of we have a problem if that's all you can say to them

[3:16:23] Voice 11: they'll call you manana you'll be on a long list to you

[3:16:26] Voice 5: know just to add a little granularity to

[3:16:29] Voice 5: what mf said is that the act really invites you yeah uh to to do this uh whether it's a section

[3:16:37] Voice 5: Section 8 or Section 54, in the one case, allowing you to ask the governing council to issue a directive to you to undertake a certain type of activity or to engage in a certain type of enterprise.

[3:16:52] Voice 5: And section 54, which allows you, again, in this case, the governor and council to instruct the audience trust in respect of their powers and to change their powers.

[3:17:07] Voice 5: So if you were to help the province imagine what those governor and council documents might look like, you might be on to something.

[3:17:18] Voice 5: and

[3:17:19] Voice 11: i think uh again i look to staff on this one but in probing these questions we've never seen

[3:17:25] Voice 11: the um trust council or the honest trust for that matter use those powers you've never asked that

[3:17:32] Voice 11: they be used you've never requested that they be used and you never asked for direction on things

[3:17:37] Voice 11: that you felt were very important to you in terms of the conduct of your business and you should

[3:17:42] Voice 11: probe those because the invitation is there in the legislation and you don't get that kind of

[3:17:48] Voice 11: invitation and normal pieces of legislation so clearly they gave you an overall act which is

[3:17:55] Voice 11: pretty allows you lots of latitude and then they said in case we forgot something and it's essential

[3:18:03] Voice 11: to the conduct of your mandate please come back to us and ask us for you fill in the blank those

[3:18:10] Voice 11: are those are pretty broad powers that have never been used by you not you individually you

[3:18:15] Voice 11: collectively since the islands trust has been around you won't find them in many pieces of

[3:18:21] Voice 11: legislation thank

[3:18:24] Trustee Luckham: you um alex allen you're next hornby allen so

[3:18:32] Voice 16: i'm going to take my mask off

[3:18:33] Voice 16: because i've got allergies and i can't you won't be able to hear me very well um it's kind of

[3:18:37] Voice 16: following up with what trustee brent said yeah it's i find it really frustrating i bring this

[3:18:42] Voice 16: up at every trust council in terms of the lack of funding by the um province we've had the same

[3:18:46] Voice 16: amount of money since day one um and we are a provincial entity you know they're the province's

[3:18:54] Voice 16: legislation overrules basically if i'm not mistaken the local trust act and a community charter

[3:19:02] Voice 16: um so i was going to ask basically what you know you've almost answered it already in terms of what

[3:19:07] Voice 16: you recommend in terms of um approaching the province um it's particularly about the uh

[3:19:13] Voice 16: grant funding. And also, you know, why aren't they at our table? Why aren't they sitting here at

[3:19:20] Voice 16: trust council meetings all the time? And yeah, I just find it very surprising that there's, you

[3:19:25] Voice 16: know, we are kind of abandoned orphan here. And I'd just like to hear what you follow up on Paul's

[3:19:31] Voice 16: question. Thank you.

[3:19:35] Voice 11: Well, as you say, I think, Alex, I answered a part of that question already.

[3:19:40] Voice 11: I would also say none of you have asked me a question about the recommendations where we

[3:19:44] Voice 11: stepped outside the Act, which was to appoint First Nations representatives, which would be

[3:19:48] Voice 11: done by the province. And the other would be to appoint province-wide representatives who are at

[3:19:56] Voice 11: large in terms of representation at this table, so that the province could have some nominees who

[3:20:03] Voice 11: would sit at this table who are not, who don't come to this table in the same way as the rest

[3:20:08] Voice 11: of you come the rest of you come from fair and free elections but that the the province would

[3:20:16] Voice 11: be represented in that fashion and have a look-see as to what's happening and how it's happening at

[3:20:21] Voice 11: this table um and i don't know given the interest that they have shown uh and maybe it's not through

[3:20:29] Voice 11: lack of trying on your part maybe it's not been the most effective way of trying on your part

[3:20:34] Voice 11: I'm not going to make judgments on any of those things either.

[3:20:36] Voice 11: I'm surprised that they would not be interviewed for the purposes of this review.

[3:20:43] Voice 11: And I think that you have to have a way of having a BC-wide representation, because it

[3:20:50] Voice 11: might also help to break the logjam sometimes in the consensus that you might be trying

[3:20:55] Voice 11: to build on various issues, to have someone who has the same interests as you, but doesn't

[3:21:02] Voice 11: see it from the same granular perspective.

[3:21:03] Voice 11: because sometimes you've got to stand go up to say it's a forest and yes there are trees and if

[3:21:09] Voice 11: you look at every single tree sometimes you might forget that there's a forest so we made those

[3:21:14] Voice 11: recommendations for those reasons um and uh and that might be helpful from that perspective as

[3:21:22] Voice 11: well so i would add that to my earlier answer on the province and where they are but again i think

[3:21:27] Voice 11: you have to go with an ask and i it's not clear to me what you think that ask is yet i think part

[3:21:33] Voice 11: part of that ask is about governance. And it is true that the level of their financial commitment

[3:21:41] Voice 11: has not changed over time. As a matter of fact, it's only diminished over time as your budget has

[3:21:46] Voice 11: gone up and what you've been asked to take on has gone up and theirs has remained constant.

[3:21:51] Voice 11: But I think those are all questions that have to be addressed and they have to be addressed with

[3:21:55] Voice 11: the force of the full trust council. But that shopping list should have five or six important

[3:22:00] Voice 11: important things on the agenda, no more than five or six.

[3:22:03] Voice 11: I would go with less and make one of those important things

[3:22:06] Voice 11: that you're engaging with the province in a regular course

[3:22:10] Voice 11: of dialogue, at least on an annual basis with the minister

[3:22:13] Voice 11: and the entire trust council so that you can do agenda

[3:22:18] Voice 11: checks with each other in terms of where this is going

[3:22:21] Voice 11: and where it should be going over the longer term.

[3:22:24] Voice 11: But I fear that you have some homework to do first.

[3:22:31] Trustee Luckham: Thank you again. Case Longerise, Gabriel.

[3:22:38] Voice 38: Thank you for the report. I agree with a lot of it, most of it in fact. Your recommendations

[3:22:45] Voice 38: about provincial representatives and First Nations I concur with. I think that's a good idea.

[3:22:51] Voice 38: In some ways, it's going back to 1974, reintroducing the provincial perspective

[3:22:57] Voice 38: on our operation and not just because we're all elected locally we all tend to look at the local

[3:23:02] Voice 38: residents and the individual islands that we've lost sight of of the province as a whole and of

[3:23:08] Voice 38: course first nations now are a key element as well so i do that my question is around the election of

[3:23:14] Voice 38: the executive you imply in it that we actually have the flexibility to do so and i'm wondering

[3:23:22] Voice 38: if that is because we are a trust but we are a corporation and the act just says we have to

[3:23:28] Voice 38: elect an executive as soon as practicable and practical means possible feasible or doable

[3:23:35] Voice 38: so you see that as us actually having the flexibility to elect an interim executive

[3:23:41] Voice 38: and then the following one within this within the same term i'm

[3:23:48] Voice 11: sorry yes i do believe that you have

[3:23:50] Voice 11: the flexibility i think that you have uh within the scope of the act uh almost exclusive control

[3:23:58] Voice 11: of what i'll call the day-to-day running of your operation to make it effective and if something

[3:24:02] Voice 11: isn't working then you have a duty to pursue fiduciary duty to everybody you serve including

[3:24:08] Voice 11: yourselves to pursue models that are going to make that work better and since virtually

[3:24:14] Voice 11: virtually you know there's a handful of people who did not raise this as a major issue

[3:24:19] Voice 11: issue of trust and relevance, and the way you view each other and how you're going to work

[3:24:23] Voice 11: together, then I would say it's pretty high on the list of areas you should explore for a different

[3:24:29] Voice 11: way of doing it. And there are lots of models in a public sector context, even where elections

[3:24:35] Voice 11: occur. You know, there are famous things called the caretaker convention, where you figure out

[3:24:41] Voice 11: who's allowed to make decisions during an interim period and what decisions they're allowed to make

[3:24:46] Voice 11: and what is out of scope for them to make decisions so for example in federal provincial

[3:24:50] Voice 11: and even municipal elections the moment an election is called it's clear what the rules

[3:24:55] Voice 11: of engagement are so here what you're doing is you're extending a provision that basically says

[3:25:00] Voice 11: for x period of time there's certain decisions that will not be made in the in the course and

[3:25:05] Voice 11: conduct and direction of this organization and they will have to be you know budgetary expenditures

[3:25:11] Voice 11: expenditures over a certain amount major policy directions which are not going to be made during

[3:25:15] Voice 11: those periods of time anyway so instead of exploring why you're in these handcuffs and

[3:25:24] Voice 11: can never get out of them let's explore what the options are to making it work rather than

[3:25:29] Voice 11: what's keeping our feet in concrete and not letting us make progress going forward

[3:25:34] Voice 11: so i think you have that authority yes i

[3:25:36] Voice 5: just add that um clearly there are obligations that

[3:25:40] Voice 5: are imposed on you by by the act one of which is that you must uh elect uh an executive committee

[3:25:46] Voice 5: and you must do so as soon as practicable um the pr one of the principal obligations that you're

[3:25:54] Voice 5: trying to discharge here is to ensure continuity continuity of decision making of stewardship

[3:25:59] Voice 5: and of accountability uh and have governance really uh so there are many ways of ensuring

[3:26:06] Voice 5: continuity other than uh within 24 hours of the of the new council convening electing for four years

[3:26:14] Voice 5: an executive committee uh what all those possibilities are i don't know i i can think

[3:26:21] Voice 5: of three or four but uh someone else could think of three or four more and i think that's the point

[3:26:26] Voice 5: that's the sort of thing that you turn to your advisors uh you might even to your corporate

[3:26:32] Voice 5: Secretary, to say, what are our options here? What could we do? MF has outlined one, which is to

[3:26:40] Voice 5: limit the scope of decision-making. The other is to a caretaker type of executive committee for a

[3:26:45] Voice 5: short period of time, whatever. There's ways of doing it that are legal, and that are more than

[3:26:50] Voice 5: legal, that in a responsible way, allow you to say that you're discharging your duties properly,

[3:26:56] Voice 5: properly but have to decide whether you want to do them did

[3:27:02] Trustee Luckham: you have a follow-up to that question

[3:27:04] Trustee Luckham: yeah yeah

[3:27:06] Voice 38: so thank you for that yeah and so basically then we can explore the possibilities

[3:27:11] Voice 38: through our current structure and failing that then look to the act which through this regulatory

[3:27:16] Voice 38: power to make changes that will facilitate the operation of the trust so there's a backup to

[3:27:23] Voice 38: it out as well i understand and

[3:27:25] Voice 11: that's one of the issues given the fact that there are elections

[3:27:29] Voice 11: looming given the fact that um if this is such an irritant for so many people then i would say

[3:27:36] Voice 11: one of the first things that should be on a governance committee's roster or if you're slow

[3:27:42] Voice 11: in setting up a governance committee certainly your executive committee should be looking at

[3:27:46] Voice 11: this issue because having talked to every single one of them uh they want to be supportive supportive

[3:27:54] Voice 11: of you and they want to be supported by you they want to be trusted by you just like they give you

[3:27:59] Voice 11: trust and they want to be relevant in what they're doing and i don't think that individuals are

[3:28:05] Voice 11: trying to create the in and out concept but that's the way it's played out so we have to be extra

[3:28:11] Voice 11: careful if we're serious about addressing it which you should be given the numbers of people that

[3:28:15] Voice 11: have commented on it to then put something in place that addresses it and it may be that in

[3:28:20] Voice 11: In the first instance, it's a process solution to get you to the dialogue that starts giving

[3:28:25] Voice 11: you the five options.

[3:28:26] Voice 11: And then as a group, you can say, well, we only like one of those or we only like two

[3:28:30] Voice 11: of those.

[3:28:31] Voice 11: So let someone do a little bit of work on how this would work compared to that, right?

[3:28:36] Voice 11: The dialogue.

[3:28:37] Voice 11: I keep coming back to the glue of governance, the relationships.

[3:28:43] Voice 11: And all of you want them.

[3:28:44] Voice 11: All of you want them.

[3:28:46] Voice 11: And you want them to work.

[3:28:47] Voice 11: And in my judgment, you want them to work for all the right reasons.

[3:28:52] Voice 11: I do believe that of you.

[3:28:56] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you, MF.

[3:28:57] Trustee Luckham: Now, Charles, I noticed your hand was up before I turned the mic over to Case Longer.

[3:29:01] Trustee Luckham: Did you want to chime in on the previous topic?

[3:29:05] Voice 42: Two things.

[3:29:06] Voice 42: I just wanted to let people know that Eric Vance has to leave shortly in the next five or ten minutes.

[3:29:14] Voice 42: If somebody had some questions on land use planning before he disappears, it would be a good time to do it now.

[3:29:21] Voice 42: Now, the second thing on the education and the training of the new councillors when they

[3:29:28] Voice 42: get elected, part of what was underlying that was not enough, in our view, looking at how

[3:29:36] Voice 42: you've done this in the past, there was not enough time on an understanding of the operating

[3:29:43] Voice 42: inside of the federated nature.

[3:29:45] Voice 42: It was, you know, less so on what your responsibilities are in terms of your particular islands, but, you know,

[3:29:54] Voice 42: but a much greater emphasis on thinking about the kind of role you're playing inside.

[3:30:00] Voice 42: of the federation so that the federation itself and that whole process has much higher value

[3:30:05] Voice 42: and and people come into it aware of that you know both when they're running and after they're

[3:30:11] Voice 42: elected so that's all i had to say

[3:30:14] Trustee Luckham: thanks okay so thank thank you um on the uh asking uh uh mr vance

[3:30:21] Trustee Luckham: the uh questions there um i'll just lead off actually with a question that i have and then

[3:30:26] Trustee Luckham: Then I'll go to Laura Patrick as a second speaker for a question that she has in the.

[3:30:30] Trustee Luckham: So in the report, there's discussion about the bylaws, model bylaws created and not a lot of enthusiasm around that because of the rate of adoption.

[3:30:42] Trustee Luckham: And absolutely, the rate of adoption is a problem. I would question whether that's a leadership issue rather than a process issue.

[3:30:49] Trustee Luckham: but to set that aside, it's interesting that in the report, you've advised that we reduce the

[3:30:55] Trustee Luckham: number of OCPs to 14, which ostensibly would require us doing some kind of modeling for all

[3:31:02] Trustee Luckham: those OCPs that we might get rid of. But also, it's interesting in the last section on there,

[3:31:07] Trustee Luckham: you mentioned that for development variance permits, we should create a model bylaw.

[3:31:12] Trustee Luckham: And so just wonder how you reconcile that.

[3:31:16] Voice 37: Thank you. Excellent points. I mean,

[3:31:18] Voice 37: I mean, with respect to the minor, I mean, I think the issue is some of these bylaws,

[3:31:25] Voice 37: I'm not sure if there's much canvassing of the trustees to determine whether they're

[3:31:32] Voice 37: going to be interested in them or not before they're done.

[3:31:35] Voice 37: I mean, you know, and yeah, with respect to the delegation for minor DVPs, I think there

[3:31:43] Voice 37: should be a canvassing done.

[3:31:44] Voice 37: done. I mean, some of the trustees can turn around and say, no, we're not delegating that authority.

[3:31:50] Voice 37: We want to keep it. So if there's no interest in it, then no, it shouldn't be done. On the issue

[3:31:57] Voice 37: of the model bylaws more generally, I mean, you know, this is something that came up from a number

[3:32:03] Voice 37: of the staff. They're putting a lot of time in and then they feel there wasn't take up for whatever

[3:32:07] Voice 37: the reason. Something that one of the trustees had suggested in some of the communication the

[3:32:11] Voice 37: the last week or two might be useful to go back and look at all the model bylaws that have been

[3:32:16] Voice 37: created by staff over the last number of years and then identify how many of them were adopted

[3:32:22] Voice 37: and by which local trust areas just to see what it looks like there's nothing inherently wrong

[3:32:28] Voice 37: with preparing a model bylaw but if I mean either they are valuable and there's some other reason

[3:32:34] Voice 37: why they aren't being taken up or the majority of the trustees are simply saying that this isn't

[3:32:40] Voice 37: not relevant to what we're doing right

[3:32:46] Trustee Luckham: thank you very much and i'll just actually in passing

[3:32:48] Trustee Luckham: before i pass it up to our patrick just thank you for your remarks on the fees bylaw i appreciate

[3:32:52] Trustee Luckham: that so laura to go with you and then i think we'll go to our break at three o'clock and then

[3:32:57] Trustee Luckham: we'll come back at 3 15 and continue this session i

[3:33:00] Voice 15: didn't want to let you let eric vance get away

[3:33:02] Voice 15: um so our our mandate the preserving and protecting it says that we also have to do it in

[3:33:09] Voice 15: in cooperation with the municipalities, regional districts, improvement districts, and so on and

[3:33:14] Voice 15: so forth, our OCPs that we're creating, we're the ones that have been given the authority to create

[3:33:21] Voice 15: the OCPs for our communities. Are we not more just a glorified project manager for getting the OCP

[3:33:29] Voice 15: done to fulfill the needs for the community? Just would like your thoughts on that.

[3:33:35] Voice 37: Oh, gosh, no, I think you're more than just a glorified project manager. I mean, those OCPs are so fundamental to the islands. And I think we, you know, I quoted earlier the one policy out of the draft policy statement. I mean, that's incredibly powerful.

[3:33:55] Voice 37: I mean, this really gets to who are we? What is our capacity to handle more development? You know, what are all the implications? I mean, it's these OCPs, the up, I mean, I would suspect going back some of the OCPs when they were updated, they're based on the existing policy statement.

[3:34:15] Voice 37: okay well whatever uh you know some changes and so on but but the way this draft policy statement

[3:34:21] Voice 37: is set up this is really really um going to put an onus on a number of these islands i mean some

[3:34:31] Voice 37: of them have no more carrying capacity but for those that do to really have a hard look what

[3:34:36] Voice 37: they actually can do and if you follow through on this i think some of these islands are going

[3:34:40] Voice 37: going to have to have a fundamental rethink of how much more population and development and other

[3:34:46] Voice 37: activity they can actually handle um i look for example the salt spring island ocp uh you know i

[3:34:53] Voice 37: mean the information in there is dated but you know it guesstimated uh the capacity the or the

[3:34:59] Voice 37: number of the population of the island under existing zoning could be just over 17 000 so

[3:35:05] Voice 37: that's 6,000 more people in theory than there are on the island now. Can Salt Spring Island handle

[3:35:12] Voice 37: 6,000 more people? Because it's not just that 6,000 more people, those 6,000 more people

[3:35:19] Voice 37: are going to create a demand for more commercial services, which is then going

[3:35:24] Voice 37: to create more

[3:35:24] Voice 37: demands on the system, going to create a demand for public health, create a demand for education,

[3:35:29] Voice 37: create a demand for many things, impacts on infrastructure. Can that island, and I think

[3:35:34] Voice 37: the same applies to a number of the islands. Can it handle that? If it can't, there's going to have

[3:35:39] Voice 37: to be some tough choices made about some fairly fundamental changes in land use policies and land

[3:35:46] Voice 37: use designations on some of the islands.

[3:35:50] Voice 11: Not to mention the service dimension of that. The

[3:35:53] Voice 11: age profile of the population is very different now than it was when you started making some of

[3:35:58] Voice 11: these plans many years ago. The service pressures for education, for seniors and elders care,

[3:36:05] Voice 11: care for home care for all the things that somebody has to worry about may not be you

[3:36:10] Voice 11: but it's out there and until that there's a clear understanding of your set of roles and

[3:36:16] Voice 11: responsibilities and other levels of government's roles and responsibilities those pressures

[3:36:21] Voice 11: continue to be there and they make people keep asking questions about who's in charge and what

[3:36:27] Voice 11: are they doing thank

[3:36:29] Trustee Luckham: you uh lord patrick has a follow-up and then i do want to go to our break

[3:36:32] Trustee Luckham: well

[3:36:33] Voice 15: no it is exactly that but that's the in cooperation with part and my concern my concerns

[3:36:39] Voice 15: are that you know yes it is getting far more important to work with each other because

[3:36:45] Voice 15: we can't just replace the healthy communities that are there they have to be supported

[3:36:52] Voice 15: and created and that's what i'd be looking at from from mr vance is that you know how our ocps

[3:36:58] Voice 15: could be structured to ensure that these islands are you know that they don't just become a

[3:37:03] Voice 15: a playground for the rich, that these communities can be supported.

[3:37:09] Voice 37: Yeah, that's, well, you know, it seems to be a situation in some of the islands,

[3:37:17] Voice 37: and I noted in the report that, as MF just said, aging population, other issues, demand for more housing.

[3:37:26] Voice 37: It's almost like this endless do loop, where the more of it you do, the more strain you're putting on the system.

[3:37:32] Voice 37: And I think there's some fundamental questions that need to be asked about how much more should you actually be doing on some of these islands, even if there is the ability to accommodate more growth, should you be?

[3:37:44] Voice 37: That's not a question I can answer.

[3:37:46] Voice 37: I mean, you know, one of the things I noted is there's a lack of up-to-date information.

[3:37:52] Voice 37: I know there's bits and pieces, but there's not a comprehensive body of current information, statistical and other information in a number of those islands.

[3:38:01] Voice 37: I know there's been some work done on freshwater, for example, but it seems to me before you launch into these OCPs, there needs to be a better baseline of data collection, and then you start the OCP review.

[3:38:19] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you very much, Eric, for your remarks there.

[3:38:24] Trustee Luckham: So I would like to go to a break, 15 minutes, and then we'll come back and we'll continue on with questions.

[3:38:31] Trustee Luckham: But I also want to make sure the council has an opportunity to simply discuss this.

[3:38:35] Trustee Luckham: And I'm going to turn your attention to the briefing attached to this, that there are several, let's say, suggestions or recommendations about any actions we take and what the implications are, budget, legal opinion, et cetera.

[3:38:47] Trustee Luckham: Those projects are already in stream.

[3:38:49] Trustee Luckham: And so over the break, consider these things and consider your remaining questions, and then we can have a discussion about where we're going to go.

[3:38:56] Trustee Luckham: We really do want to end at 5.30 today because we've got town hall at 7, and that gives us a limited amount of time for our dinner break as well.

[3:39:05] Trustee Luckham: So let's have 15 minutes.

[3:39:07] Trustee Luckham: We'll come back at 3.20 and continue on.

[3:39:13] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, everybody.

[3:58:06] Trustee Johnston: Is something interesting happening, or is it just a delay?

[3:58:09] Trustee Johnston: nothing

[3:58:16] Voice 12: interesting happening peter

[3:58:18] Trustee Luckham: okay trustees let us get us back to the table here we're five

[3:58:23] Trustee Luckham: minutes overdue um yeah i'm looking around the room i'm pretty sure i've got a quorum

[3:58:31] Trustee Luckham: and so i'm gonna pick up where we left off

[3:58:35] Voice 33: and

[3:58:37] Trustee Luckham: um i think doug fenton is a new speaker

[3:58:41] Trustee Luckham: and Laura Beshaken as a second speaker.

[3:58:44] Trustee Luckham: And I'll just quickly look around the room

[3:58:45] Trustee Luckham: as Doug Fenton prepares himself.

[3:58:47] Trustee Luckham: If you raise your hands,

[3:58:49] Trustee Luckham: otherwise we'll be going into some discussion.

[3:58:53] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so I see hands.

[3:58:54] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for pointing.

[3:58:56] Trustee Luckham: Hands up, please.

[3:59:03] Voice 30: Thank you.

[3:59:04] Voice 30: I thought the report was actually very enlightening.

[3:59:07] Voice 30: I found the slide presentation today's summary very good.

[3:59:12] Voice 30: It actually helped pull pieces together.

[3:59:14] Voice 30: other that was a little loose and

[3:59:17] Trustee Luckham: can you speak to the microphone and i'll remind everybody to

[3:59:22] Trustee Luckham: speak into the microphone it's helpful thanks

[3:59:24] Voice 30: peter uh so but my question comes back to one

[3:59:28] Voice 30: thing you didn't get asked directly is the notion of the area is the physical environment

[3:59:35] Voice 30: and how and the residents so are we i'm just how the physical environment

[3:59:42] Voice 30: environment human species in isolation of each other or how do other species fit outside of the

[3:59:51] Voice 30: human species fit into this equation. It actually reflects or moves into sort of the BC representative

[3:59:58] Voice 30: as well.

[4:00:00] Voice 30: Is this individual looking at tourism opportunities because I want to come and camp, or is it ecotourism where they're coming down with the fundamental reason to look at biodiversity that still exists within the trust area?

[4:00:14] Voice 30: area. Given the fact of our preserve and protect mandate, does looking at all of this through the

[4:00:26] Voice 30: lens of the triple bottom line or the triple E equation or approach to strategic development

[4:00:33] Voice 30: planning apply to these equations in general? Thank you. Did

[4:00:44] Trustee Luckham: you understand the question over

[4:00:46] Trustee Luckham: there no we

[4:00:47] Voice 11: couldn't hear the beginning of it to to make matters worse so sorry

[4:00:52] Trustee Luckham: a little closer to

[4:00:53] Trustee Luckham: the mic

[4:00:54] Voice 11: that

[4:00:57] Voice 30: that's done so does your physical environment work in isolation um to humans or

[4:01:06] Voice 30: humans and associated species uh could you just explain how they fit together we'll start there

[4:01:15] Voice 30: well

[4:01:17] Voice 11: i don't think i i'm going to explain to experts like you guys how they fit together i

[4:01:23] Voice 11: will say they don't work in isolation right that's part of the uniqueness of the environment

[4:01:27] Voice 11: you're being asked to provide governance over so um what you're looking for and what's at the heart

[4:01:34] Voice 11: of the some of the differences of opinion is the balance between those things because

[4:01:39] Voice 11: your job here providing governance to the whole island stressed area is that search for balance

[4:01:45] Voice 11: but they have to work together and

[4:01:51] Voice 30: in line with that is the so the bc represented personally just

[4:01:55] Voice 30: looking at whoever this individual would be um are they once again looking at the trial and

[4:02:01] Voice 30: stress area as coming down for um recreational activities and it's a great place to come and

[4:02:08] Voice 30: spend a holiday or is it ecotourism where they're actually coming down to look at the gulf islands

[4:02:14] Voice 30: and the biodiversity within the Gulf Islands

[4:02:17] Voice 30: that may not exist elsewhere in BC?

[4:02:20] Voice 30: I

[4:02:21] Voice 11: think it's the second of your list

[4:02:24] Voice 11: because that's what makes this area unique, right?

[4:02:28] Voice 11: And I actually would, if I was queen for a day,

[4:02:31] Voice 11: I'd have more than one BC representative.

[4:02:32] Voice 11: I'd probably have two and select them from different parts

[4:02:36] Voice 11: and different knowledge base that since you're selecting,

[4:02:39] Voice 11: you can pick for types of expertise

[4:02:42] Voice 11: that may not be represented as a result of elections.

[4:02:45] Voice 11: And if that's what's lacking, then if I was advising the government, that's what I'd say.

[4:02:53] Voice 30: This may not have already pretty much answered it in that regard, but is the notion of the triple bottom line or what they call the triple E approach to strategic planning, which is a balanced approach versus an economically driven approach.

[4:03:10] Voice 30: approach so on a balance that looks at ecology um economy and uh the environment are are yeah

[4:03:21] Voice 30: close enough but you know what i'm getting at so that would be applicable on approach

[4:03:26] Voice 11: yes it would and it's the balance between them that is giving you the that's where the rub is

[4:03:30] Voice 11: right yeah okay

[4:03:42] Trustee Luckham: so i've got two other names here david critchley and lee middleton thank

[4:03:50] Trustee Critchley: you i'd

[4:03:51] Trustee Critchley: I'd like to thank you first for the report.

[4:03:53] Trustee Critchley: I very much appreciate all the work that you did.

[4:03:55] Trustee Critchley: And I appreciate the extra effort that you put in, despite our deficiencies in budgeting

[4:04:01] Trustee Critchley: appropriately.

[4:04:04] Trustee Critchley: Well, I think that's very professional of you.

[4:04:09] Trustee Critchley: I wanted to ask, follow up a little bit on this idea of a governance committee.

[4:04:17] Trustee Critchley: And I'm thinking, okay, how will that function?

[4:04:20] Trustee Critchley: I know very little about governance. I've learned more than I ever knew about governance from reading this one document.

[4:04:30] Trustee Critchley: And I'm wondering if from your professional point of view, it would be advisable.

[4:04:36] Trustee Critchley: Well, first of all, would it be necessary or advisable to have a consultant on hand to assist such a committee if it were to be established?

[4:04:50] Trustee Critchley: established because i see this as being rather complex uh waters to be navigating and i think

[4:04:56] Trustee Critchley: i'd like to have a a pilot on board uh to assist and if if you do think so could you give us any

[4:05:05] Trustee Critchley: idea maybe this is unfair right now uh off the top of your head what sort of budgeting should we

[4:05:10] Trustee Critchley: set aside if if that were the case thank you um

[4:05:15] Voice 11: okay let me try this way um first of all you've

[4:05:21] Voice 11: got to agree that you want a governance committee. Second of all, you've got to agree who amongst

[4:05:26] Voice 11: yourselves would sit on the governance committee. And therefore, a quick assessment then of the

[4:05:34] Voice 11: skill sets you have and the expertise you might be missing. Because I'm not prepared to say you

[4:05:39] Voice 11: haven't got some of it here in situ, right? Having said that, then if you're going to get expertise,

[4:05:46] Voice 11: expertise i think you better think of the expertise as the navigation help not the pilots

[4:05:51] Voice 11: you guys are in charge of what happens here and if somebody else dictates what happens here it's

[4:05:57] Voice 11: not going to stick right and this is why um everything that we are saying at the basis of

[4:06:03] Voice 11: our recommendations has to do with dialogue with deliberation and with something that's going to

[4:06:09] Voice 11: to work in your case the reason you probably need some expertise uh off the top of my head

[4:06:15] Voice 11: as one of those type of experts is because your current model is so complicated right it's so

[4:06:23] Voice 11: complicated that i'm not even sure everybody who's here understands it so i'll give you exhibit a

[4:06:30] Voice 11: page 12 of the report and i can't call it up but page 12 of the report has what you represent as

[4:06:38] Voice 11: a federated structure on your own website and inside your own documents um and that's led to

[4:06:46] Voice 11: a lot of the problems you have because each one of those bodies thinks it's operating on its own

[4:06:51] Voice 11: right my take and take it for what it's worth because we didn't want to waste money uh when

[4:06:59] Voice 11: we could be spending it on actually exploring things on graphics top page 13 has my view of

[4:07:07] Voice 11: of how you should be viewing yourself

[4:07:08] Voice 11: and what your legislation actually says, right?

[4:07:11] Voice 11: All of those pieces are components

[4:07:13] Voice 11: of what the Islands Trust is.

[4:07:17] Voice 11: They're not separate groups either in conflict

[4:07:21] Voice 11: or absent from decision-making, right?

[4:07:25] Voice 11: You can go a long way to fix some of your answers

[4:07:29] Voice 11: to the questions that were just raised

[4:07:30] Voice 11: by your last colleague about EEE and that kind of stuff

[4:07:35] Voice 11: by understanding that you've got expertise,

[4:07:37] Voice 11: the conservancy that could color some of your land use planning decisions right but it's not

[4:07:44] Voice 11: managed that way right so you you tell me who's on the committee you identify the priority areas

[4:07:52] Voice 11: that you're prepared to look at from the report you might also have some others by the way that

[4:07:58] Voice 11: we managed to miss we tried to do a pretty thorough job but in case there's some that we missed

[4:08:03] Voice 11: although in your comments to us we haven't got any of those yet and then we can tell you what

[4:08:09] Voice 11: you need in terms of navigation help navigating it right and that's why even in the last days

[4:08:15] Voice 11: Sylvain Dubois who's the last guy on the screen there is a public administration lawyer public

[4:08:23] Voice 11: law expert I spent many years working machinery governance pretty council office advising the

[4:08:29] Voice 11: prime minister on structures of government and how these things work and how legislation interacts

[4:08:34] Voice 11: and what it actually means um we brought him on at the end to make sure that some of the things

[4:08:40] Voice 11: we were advising on you know to me they're a matter of opinion they're not a matter of law

[4:08:44] Voice 11: but i'm happy to go toe-to-toe with any lawyer that differs on that because people like sylvan

[4:08:49] Voice 11: are pretty rare birds in terms of how these uh areas function um and we can go from there right

[4:08:57] Voice 11: So I say, figure out what you want to do, figure it or figure it was on your committee, figure out what you want to do, identify the areas that you would identify as your priorities, maybe have a quick chat with someone, just to say, have we got these because remember I said this is a holistic thing you're engaged in now.

[4:09:18] Voice 11: have you picked the ones that hang together the ones that you have to do immediately that have

[4:09:23] Voice 11: to come as a package and the other ones that you can leave for another time and then figure out

[4:09:27] Voice 11: what expertise you need um and how much expertise you need probably depends on the pace of the

[4:09:35] Voice 11: change you want to drive is this such a fundamental issue that stopping progress on many friends i

[4:09:40] Voice 11: would say yes uh in terms of the trust and the relevance of how you're viewed how you view each

[4:09:46] Voice 11: other and how you're viewed externally and therefore I would I would focus on the issues

[4:09:52] Voice 11: that address that particular set of issues they manifest itself in specific things but what are

[4:10:01] Voice 11: the ones that you would put in there and then tell me what your time frame is and then you can

[4:10:06] Voice 11: figure out what kind of expertise and probably roughly what it would cost you but you're in the

[4:10:13] Voice 11: driver's seat. You're the pilots. Someone else is helping you navigate.

[4:10:20] Trustee Luckham: Lee Middleton, your turn.

[4:10:23] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much. Thank you for the report. I thought we were very lucky when you responded to

[4:10:28] Trustee Middleton: our invitation to bid with all of your collective level of expertise. And I know we have a good

[4:10:35] Trustee Middleton: report because now we're the ones who have to do the work to make it happen. And I think all good

[4:10:40] Trustee Middleton: reports end that way rather than with a very narrow prescription that maybe not everybody

[4:10:46] Trustee Middleton: would buy into and that's and that's to following on to david's point is what is next now obviously

[4:10:53] Trustee Middleton: we've had a culture of decision making around trust council where we've not fully maybe owned

[4:11:00] Trustee Middleton: our decisions or we've not had the feeling of full agency as i think you said in terms of um

[4:11:06] Trustee Middleton: the work that we do and that's led to some frustration and some potentially you could

[4:11:10] Trustee Middleton: but argue bad behavior and erosion of trust.

[4:11:15] Trustee Middleton: And I think what your report is saying is

[4:11:18] Trustee Middleton: we primarily need to develop governance structure

[4:11:21] Trustee Middleton: not to argue our values

[4:11:24] Trustee Middleton: or to have an environmental versus an economic perspective,

[4:11:31] Trustee Middleton: but we need a governance structure

[4:11:32] Trustee Middleton: where we can create a place to talk through those values

[4:11:38] Trustee Middleton: and hopefully arrive at a common policy prescription for how we move forward.

[4:11:45] Trustee Middleton: Now, what I would say is the Governance Committee obviously seems like an excellent idea,

[4:11:49] Trustee Middleton: but I know because there is some of perhaps how the report came about,

[4:11:55] Trustee Middleton: maybe some years of frustration with Trust Council, its decision-making processes,

[4:12:01] Trustee Middleton: processes, just establishing a governance committee, I don't know addresses the necessary

[4:12:07] Trustee Middleton: trust issues that we have to address in order to get beyond what the governance committee is going

[4:12:13] Trustee Middleton: to be a vehicle for a particular viewpoint, or the governance committee is shorthand for defunding

[4:12:17] Trustee Middleton: the trust, or the governance committee is shorthand for, you know, no tree cutting at all,

[4:12:26] Trustee Middleton: And, you know, some of the hot button issues, right? Whereas what the Governance Committee needs to be is a place to build a structure where we can talk about that stuff meaningfully and then move forward with leadership, as I think our consultant pointed out.

[4:12:42] Trustee Middleton: Now, but as David, I'm still a little confused, or I guess have a sense of trepidation about how we create such a committee that can be seen as objectively searching for governance structure that will work for us all, that support all of us in the work we're doing here.

[4:13:03] Trustee Middleton: there needs to be some kind of a sense of objectivity and I'm wondering it's a loaded

[4:13:08] Trustee Middleton: question I apologize but I'm wondering if if there if you could speak to that point about

[4:13:15] Trustee Middleton: how we move forward in a way where we can facilitate dialogue and building trust while

[4:13:20] Trustee Middleton: we're having conversations about governance mechanisms as opposed to sort of environmental

[4:13:24] Trustee Middleton: values or other such things which I think come next thank you

[4:13:30] Voice 11: thank you I could speak to

[4:13:33] Voice 11: it and i i'm trying to search for uh the best way for folks to feel comfortable with the concept um

[4:13:43] Voice 11: and i i look at myself i i rue the day that i ever took a phone call from uh charles kelly

[4:13:55] Voice 11: um because you know once you're in as i said you're in and once we realize how time consuming

[4:14:01] Voice 11: and the kind of effort that we were having to put in,

[4:14:06] Voice 11: we could have given you,

[4:14:08] Voice 11: if we thought you were seriously going to take the consideration,

[4:14:12] Voice 11: terms of reference for governance committee,

[4:14:14] Voice 11: the way a governance committee should be appointed,

[4:14:18] Voice 11: what it should do and what it shouldn't do.

[4:14:21] Voice 11: And then we could even order our recommendations in such a way

[4:14:26] Voice 11: as to tell you what the governance committee should be considering

[4:14:30] Voice 11: in our judgment if trust and relevance is what you're trying

[4:14:33] Voice 11: to rebuild first and foremost, right?

[4:14:35] Voice 11: Those things we could do.

[4:14:37] Voice 11: And we would be doing them instead of you.

[4:14:42] Voice 11: And we could do that relatively quickly,

[4:14:47] Voice 11: like before you leave this meeting over the next few days,

[4:14:54] Voice 11: because that's, I'm talking about one page of considered opinion.

[4:14:57] Voice 11: opinion and um i can't see i see charles on the screen i don't know what he's doing except looking

[4:15:03] Voice 11: at me in further amazement agreeing of course because he knows he's going to write it um and

[4:15:09] Voice 11: uh and return it to you so that you can continue this discussion in uh in a concrete fashion i we

[4:15:17] Voice 11: that much we can do for you i'm not going to make it up i mean i could make it up off the top of my

[4:15:22] Voice 11: head and be pretty close to what i think you need to do but give me a bit to consult with my

[4:15:26] Voice 11: my colleagues and give you a piece of paper and uh you can take it from there um aside from that

[4:15:33] Voice 11: i can't i can't build your trust i can build it in me in the process that i'm suggesting i can't

[4:15:39] Voice 11: build it in you and in each other but if i order the recommendations in there in such a way that

[4:15:44] Voice 11: might do it for you and then it comes from me not from any one of you in particularly and i don't

[4:15:51] Voice 11: know if that helps you're gonna have to tell me if that helps or not aside from that i would repeat

[4:15:57] Voice 11: many of the things i've repeated which you've already heard me say so i don't need to do that

[4:16:07] Trustee Luckham: all right um i'm going to go to laura beshaken as a second speaker and i'm going to go to steve

[4:16:13] Trustee Luckham: wright as a second speaker and uh up on the screen i got peter johnson as a first speaker

[4:16:21] Trustee Luckham: but laura i gave you the floors and then i'll come to peter and then oh and then tim peterson

[4:16:26] Trustee Luckham: as well i see the dueling list kitchens

[4:16:30] Voice 9: thank you and you know i think a lot of the questions

[4:16:33] Voice 9: I originally had to do with implementation, and what I'm hearing is that that really wasn't in your scope, is implementation, and I understand that, but that's what I'm most interested in.

[4:16:48] Voice 9: But I have a broader, perhaps very difficult question, and it has to do with this building towards a more collaborative, consensus-based way of making decisions so that we can own our decisions and feel at least reasonably comfortable when the decision doesn't go our way and not be re-arguing the same things and conniving against each other.

[4:17:17] Voice 9: or not that we would ever do that so that is I think a key goal that I keep reading about and I

[4:17:24] Voice 9: share very strongly in your report and I just wonder what like it's like we want to go about

[4:17:31] Voice 9: doing that you've made suggestions that are structural but in the meantime we have the

[4:17:37] Voice 9: habits we have and we are the people we are we have the relationships we have and so we're

[4:17:42] Voice 9: taking some of the you know our old ways into how we're doing the new thing and also I would say

[4:17:49] Voice 9: we're in a context of our communities and our media that drive people towards divisiveness

[4:17:57] Voice 9: I think you all know what I'm talking about it's it's all around us and like quite honestly like

[4:18:04] Voice 9: I've heard things around the council table and maybe I've said things I certainly aim not to

[4:18:11] Voice 9: that are personal and divisive.

[4:18:14] Voice 9: I've seen arguments come again and again

[4:18:18] Voice 9: to be argued when we've actually made decisions on them.

[4:18:22] Voice 9: We spent days discussing preserve and protect

[4:18:25] Voice 9: and what it means, and we made decisions.

[4:18:27] Voice 9: But for many people, those decisions don't,

[4:18:30] Voice 9: they're not valid.

[4:18:31] Voice 9: So we're kind of, I feel we're stuck in this.

[4:18:33] Voice 9: And to some degree, our voters have elected some of us,

[4:18:38] Voice 9: I think, to be quote unquote scrappy

[4:18:41] Voice 9: or to challenge the trust, trust existence, maybe.

[4:18:45] Voice 9: So given all this, like, because part of me is like, gosh, it's actually more about like,

[4:18:50] Voice 9: we all need to go to like personal development camp first and or nonviolent communication.

[4:18:59] Voice 9: I don't know, but that's not really what we're here to do.

[4:19:02] Voice 9: So it's kind of a broad question.

[4:19:05] Voice 9: do you have any recommendations for how to go forward to fix a problem when we are suffering

[4:19:12] Voice 9: from the problem it

[4:19:15] Voice 11: puts a huge burden on the chair right to call you out and to tell you off

[4:19:20] Voice 11: and to make you go into time out when you behave like you're six years old if that's what you're

[4:19:25] Voice 11: doing um but some of that is behavioral now right and covid has only exacerbated it right so it puts

[4:19:35] Voice 11: great pressure on the chair is that what you want the chair to be doing that's a conversation you

[4:19:40] Voice 11: have to have as a group if that's not what you want the chair to be doing uh who's going to run

[4:19:46] Voice 11: your meetings and who's going to rule you out of order when you're doing something that's

[4:19:50] Voice 11: inappropriate and do it even-handedly and do it across the piece right sometimes that's the role

[4:19:56] Voice 11: that the chair takes on sometimes it's a role that a neutral chair of a meeting takes on allowing the

[4:20:02] Voice 11: a chair to continue to show leadership across a whole range of issues right this is why

[4:20:08] Voice 11: fundamentally we recommended the role of the secretary be a different kind of role than the

[4:20:14] Voice 11: role that is currently being undertaken right you need someone who as a collective you have faith

[4:20:23] Voice 11: and confidence in to play that kind of role call you out quietly behind the scenes keep the dialogue

[4:20:31] Voice 11: going recognize and advise the chair and various committee chairs where more attention is needed

[4:20:39] Voice 11: than less attention where it's a function of relationships or where it's a function of

[4:20:44] Voice 11: knowledge the other thing you could do is you could start by recommitting through this process

[4:20:52] Voice 11: to taking some of that um development i'm not going to call it training because you know we're

[4:21:00] Voice 11: We're all adults and we all kind of have to recommit to what you're trying to do here.

[4:21:06] Voice 11: That focuses not on everything you need to know to run your LTC, but how you function as an effective council.

[4:21:15] Voice 11: What are the qualities and characteristics that you should be demonstrating at meetings?

[4:21:20] Voice 11: What's out of line and what's perfectly fair?

[4:21:24] Voice 11: And how do you go about raising those complicated and difficult decisions in a non-personal way?

[4:21:29] Voice 11: And what role do your facilitators play, whether it's the chair, council, or whether it's others? And I'd also ask the question, in addition to everything I've just said, does senior staff have a role to play in that, right? Because there are limitations on how often you meet and where you meet.

[4:21:50] Voice 11: there are limitations on a whole range of things and some of them have dollar implications and some

[4:21:57] Voice 11: of them you know until you fix the problem i think you've got to find the resources from something

[4:22:03] Voice 11: else i'm always from the something else school i'm not i'm not ever for let's keep increasing

[4:22:08] Voice 11: the cost of this because there are people at the other end of this who are paying for it

[4:22:12] Voice 11: um what else do you or what do you stop doing in order to ensure that the most important thing

[4:22:19] Voice 11: about trust council is working and that's your decision making capability and capacity if you

[4:22:26] Voice 11: don't address those issues the rest of them pale by comparison right and you continue to be

[4:22:32] Voice 11: suboptimal and you continue to eat away at trust and relevance in the communities out there that

[4:22:37] Voice 11: you serve i

[4:22:38] Voice 5: just oh i have one thing that comes back to something that mr middleton said and that

[4:22:43] Voice 5: you uh said as well mary internet leaving aside the policy issues and the policy questions which

[4:22:50] Voice 5: which have been divisive and have polarized people,

[4:22:54] Voice 5: leaving them aside and agreeing on a neutral level

[4:23:00] Voice 5: that there's a need to modernize governance

[4:23:03] Voice 5: and to take this neutral proposition

[4:23:07] Voice 5: and to figure out a way forward in respect of it.

[4:23:13] Voice 5: Is it possible that a group of 26 people could agree

[4:23:18] Voice 5: that there is need to proceed to modernize, to reform, to improve governance, and that they

[4:23:26] Voice 5: might identify amongst themselves a group of an appropriate size, whether that's seven or nine

[4:23:32] Voice 5: or whatever, I don't know, an appropriate size to proceed to examine further the issue,

[4:23:38] Voice 5: always keeping in touch with the whole. And if so, you've made a good start. If not,

[4:23:45] Voice 5: not i wonder whether there's any hope at all because you know you should be able to come to

[4:23:52] Voice 5: grips with that or you may decide as a group that you're fine the way you are basically and if

[4:23:57] Voice 5: there's an issue that comes up from time to time you'll address it in the in the regular course of

[4:24:02] Voice 5: business that would also be a way forward so leave the politics or the policy rather aside and

[4:24:10] Voice 5: And just focus on, do you trust yourselves enough to take a look honestly at governance and using this report as well as other information, advice from staff, advice from other consultants, as you said, or wherever to work out an action plan.

[4:24:29] Voice 11: And the reason I am still here on this is because you all had an opportunity to talk to us individually under the cone of silence.

[4:24:42] Voice 11: you could have chosen that time to say or do anything.

[4:24:49] Voice 11: Not a one of you use that time to slag each other.

[4:24:53] Voice 11: Not a one of you.

[4:24:55] Voice 11: Not a one of you use that time to question other people's motives.

[4:24:59] Voice 11: Some of you, but not a majority of you,

[4:25:02] Voice 11: didn't like the process that got you here.

[4:25:05] Voice 11: But your comments were directed at process.

[4:25:08] Voice 11: They were not directed at each other.

[4:25:11] Voice 11: I take great comfort from that, and so should you.

[4:25:15] Voice 11: You could have said anything.

[4:25:17] Voice 11: These interviews could have gone any way to Sunday. You could have given the mood of the time

[4:25:26] Voice 11: and you didn't. You did not. You focused on the job at hand. You focused on how do we make this

[4:25:35] Voice 11: a more effective organization? How do we, my word is modernize, you could be using a different word,

[4:25:43] Voice 11: how do we modernize the apparatus that isn't able to get us over that finish line on some of these

[4:25:49] Voice 11: these issues. But you all focused on the right things. So I'm going to leave it at that. And

[4:25:54] Voice 11: you should take a lot of comfort in that. That's why I think you can do it.

[4:26:03] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you. So I

[4:26:05] Trustee Luckham: think now I have, I had, I'm going to go to the new speakers. That's right, Steve. I have Peter

[4:26:14] Trustee Luckham: Johnson, Tim Peterson, and then Steve Wright. There's no other new speakers.

[4:26:21] Trustee Johnston: Thank you very

[4:26:22] Trustee Johnston: very much. I want to thank all of you for this report. And I particularly wanted to put my hand

[4:26:30] Trustee Johnston: up to say thank you for your offer of guidance outline for the governance committee. That will

[4:26:38] Trustee Johnston: be very important. I just think that so much can come of this. To me, the main problem is that we

[4:26:46] Trustee Johnston: have not had enough time to, I say, talk to each other, but really listen to each other.

[4:26:52] Trustee Johnston: We've been, to my mind, way too busy dealing with business, and part of that is because it hasn't been comfortable to hang out after meetings, around meetings, before meetings, and talk with each other in small groups.

[4:27:09] Trustee Johnston: But I find this report really clear, and it makes me almost think of standing for re-election, but I'm not going to, so thank you.

[4:27:24] Trustee Luckham: thank you peter tim peterson thank

[4:27:30] Voice 29: you chair and i want to i want to thank um all of the folks that

[4:27:34] Voice 29: worked on this uh report for an excellent and really in-depth and really insightful view of

[4:27:43] Voice 29: of the trust um one of the things that stands out for me that i've heard a lot from you

[4:27:48] Voice 29: is about deliberation and it's been my feeling it was my second term it was my feeling by

[4:27:55] Voice 29: by midway through the first term that, in fact, our trust council structure of attempting to deal with an awful lot of business in a few short days,

[4:28:10] Voice 29: just a few times a year, actually hasn't given us what I feel is ample opportunity for deliberation.

[4:28:20] Voice 29: um and i know i've i've advocated more than once that we either extend the duration of trust

[4:28:28] Voice 29: councils or um you know hasn't got a lot of take up um but that's something that's

[4:28:36] Voice 29: that really resonates for me as um is the time for deliberation and so in that sense

[4:28:44] Voice 30: recommendations

[4:28:45] Voice 29: about um having committees perhaps more committees even and to have them take on

[4:28:52] Voice 29: some of that work in a sense that perhaps it will be awkward or difficult to get all 26 trustees

[4:29:00] Voice 29: to do so and commit more time i think uh i'm certainly leaning towards uh you know endorsement

[4:29:16] Voice 29: of the idea of a governance committee i think there's important recommendations here that

[4:29:20] Voice 29: that i believe um we need to at least explore some more if if uh if not necessarily implement right

[4:29:28] Voice 29: away or unchanged and uh

[4:29:30] Voice 29: given that i would also be one of those uh people who'd be very

[4:29:35] Voice 29: appreciative um if you if you're willing to produce us a draft terms of reference i think

[4:29:43] Voice 29: I think that would be helpful for our discussion

[4:29:46] Voice 29: when we do get to the point of discussing

[4:29:48] Voice 29: whether we're going to proceed

[4:29:50] Voice 29: with the governance committee or not.

[4:29:51] Voice 29: Thank you.

[4:29:55] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Tim.

[4:29:56] Trustee Luckham: Was there a question in there?

[4:30:00] Trustee Luckham: no that's what i thought good try um so uh a question steve right from south pender

[4:30:08] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[4:30:11] Voice 39: we yes am i good um we have discussed uh quite a bit about uh the trustees role

[4:30:18] Voice 39: uh individually as well as collectively in council and uh during that conversation

[4:30:24] Voice 39: conversation, the word structure comes in. And my question is, I've kind of found in my experience

[4:30:31] Voice 39: that any structure kind of works depending on the people that are involved in that structure to make

[4:30:37] Voice 39: it work. So my question would be, do you find that the structure needs any significant change

[4:30:44] Voice 39: or alteration? Or is it simply our participation within that structure that is creating many of

[4:30:51] Voice 39: the issues that we're facing today without hurting anybody's feelings

[4:30:57] Voice 11: i'm not trying to hurt anybody's

[4:30:59] Voice 11: feelings because the structure is is part of the structure which is 26 is visited upon everybody

[4:31:05] Voice 11: and again i'm not making except for the two recommendations of adding bc-wide representation

[4:31:10] Voice 11: and indigenous representation and that those be provincial appointments we haven't gone to

[4:31:15] Voice 11: structure we have talked about committees and there's more experimentations that should go on

[4:31:21] Voice 11: with committees some of them could be regional for example where people have more in common than

[4:31:26] Voice 11: they do and then that all rolls up to um the federated structure so i think um yes you're

[4:31:35] Voice 11: absolutely right even as a governance expert i would say that people of good intent could make

[4:31:40] Voice 11: just about anything work it's more cumbersome you have to do a workaround but whatever okay

[4:31:44] Voice 11: and here it's not that you're not people of good intent it's that you just can't find a way of

[4:31:50] Voice 11: getting together and part of that is covid um so we're going to have to give you some

[4:31:57] Voice 11: process and some a little bit of structure and i think the structure applies to the committees

[4:32:02] Voice 11: so that we if there's clarity around who should be looking at what and then because i think

[4:32:07] Voice 11: governance you can do it as 26 uh i don't think so um i think you need a group of you who spends

[4:32:14] Voice 11: a little bit more time understanding and pre-digesting and then come back to you as a

[4:32:18] Voice 11: group, as the entire group to sort of say, okay, this is what we thought of, this is what we looked

[4:32:23] Voice 11: at, and comes back to you periodically, right? Not just three or four times a year, because if

[4:32:29] Voice 11: you're going to make some of these changes, you want them to start showing appreciable difference

[4:32:35] Voice 11: in the output and performance of the organization relatively quickly. Otherwise, why would any of

[4:32:41] Voice 11: you sign up for them? We don't want the government's recommendations to look like the island time that

[4:32:46] Voice 11: that everything else seems to move at.

[4:32:48] Voice 11: OCPs that take forever, bylaws that take forever,

[4:32:50] Voice 11: projects that take, that span the life of a trustee,

[4:32:54] Voice 11: all that stuff, please.

[4:32:56] Voice 11: Those to me are all indicators

[4:32:58] Voice 11: of something else that's endemic, right?

[4:33:00] Voice 11: So what we want here is something more focused,

[4:33:03] Voice 11: more targeted.

[4:33:04] Voice 11: We're not trying to hurt anybody's feelings.

[4:33:06] Voice 11: We don't want to hurt anybody's feelings

[4:33:08] Voice 11: and neither do you guys.

[4:33:09] Voice 11: Otherwise, you know, it's not going to work.

[4:33:10] Voice 11: So process and a little bit about structure

[4:33:15] Voice 11: and you're stuck with the 26 so we might as well make it work but it is more complicated because

[4:33:20] Voice 11: of 26 there's no question so

[4:33:24] Trustee Luckham: lead you have a question

[4:33:25] Voice 11: um

[4:33:27] Trustee Middleton: excuse me thank you chair you have

[4:33:29] Trustee Middleton: a quick question this is in regard some of the mechanics and a team member we haven't heard from

[4:33:35] Trustee Middleton: yet who i know that you asked to review some of the latitude we might have in the in the relevant

[4:33:39] Trustee Middleton: acts that um underscore our work and this is the idea that we have the latitude to have an

[4:33:45] Trustee Middleton: an independent secretary, and that we have the latitude to do some of the things in regards

[4:33:52] Trustee Middleton: election of our own members to an executive and that type of thing. So I just wonder if there's

[4:33:56] Trustee Middleton: any comment or any insights that you might offer or ask Mr. DuBois to speak to.

[4:34:03] Trustee Middleton: Yeah,

[4:34:04] Voice 11: I think Sylvain, if you want to speak to the issue, I'm just going to say before he even

[4:34:07] Voice 11: starts, the issue of secretary is not a legal question. It's your ability to conduct your

[4:34:12] Voice 11: your affairs in such a way that's going to work but i'll leave it to him to throw in any legal

[4:34:16] Voice 11: two cents worth he's got he's also a governance expert as well as a public walks and you have to

[4:34:25] Trustee Luckham: unmute your microphone sir so

[4:34:30] Voice 14: then we yeah we're

[4:34:42] Trustee Luckham: still not we

[4:34:43] Voice 9: still can't hear you

[4:34:44] Trustee Luckham: unmute at the

[4:34:46] Trustee Luckham: bottom lower side of your left hand side of your screen there should be a microphone with a red

[4:34:51] Trustee Luckham: but there you go, you're online now.

[4:34:53] Voice 48: Okay, so I was saying I was already starting to work

[4:34:58] Voice 48: on a governance committee mandate,

[4:35:01] Voice 48: so I missed the question.

[4:35:03] Voice 48: So can you repeat the question for me, please?

[4:35:10] Trustee Luckham: And

[4:35:11] Trustee Middleton: it has to be the same question.

[4:35:12] Trustee Luckham: No, thank you

[4:35:13] Trustee Middleton: very much, I'm happy to.

[4:35:15] Trustee Middleton: I understand that you reviewed

[4:35:17] Trustee Middleton: some of our foundational legislation

[4:35:19] Trustee Middleton: and that your review showed

[4:35:23] Trustee Middleton: showed that we have full latitude to have an independent secretary function to support the work of council,

[4:35:30] Trustee Middleton: as well as to adjust some of the internal governance mechanisms that we currently use in regard to how executives are elected and that type of thing.

[4:35:38] Trustee Middleton: So just if you had any comment on it, any reinforcing comment, I guess I'm looking forward on those topics.

[4:35:46] Trustee Middleton: Well,

[4:35:47] Voice 48: like my review of your legislation and the governing legislation showed to me that there is a broad number of tools that you have at your disposal.

[4:36:04] Voice 48: I think much broader than you have exercised so far, and I think that you have to test the waters and push the envelope as much as you can within your existing legal framework, and there is ample room to do much more than has been done in the past,

[4:36:29] Voice 48: or that I understood has been done in the past.

[4:36:36] Voice 48: For example, I would say that you could have your own classification system,

[4:36:41] Voice 48: totally independent from the public service.

[4:36:44] Voice 48: That's within your legislation.

[4:36:49] Voice 48: You might have a bit of a fight with the Public Service Commission,

[4:36:53] Voice 48: but that's not here nor there.

[4:36:55] Voice 48: I think you have that ability.

[4:36:56] Voice 48: and if you you uh so so because you're an independent employer you're you're you're

[4:37:04] Voice 48: deemed to be certain things but you are not certain things you are not part of the public

[4:37:08] Voice 48: service you're deemed to be uh uh uh and you're to be employee your employees have to be hired

[4:37:18] Voice 48: under the public service uh act but they are it doesn't say that they are public servants

[4:37:25] Voice 48: So it's the process to hire that is imposed on you, but then your classification system, you have a lot of abilities within that framework to do a lot more things that have been done.

[4:37:45] Voice 40: specifically sylvan

[4:37:46] Voice 32: i don't think you heard the last question

[4:37:50] Voice 11: so i was just saying specifically you were also being asked about the issue of secretary and i

[4:37:56] Voice 11: said before you even had a chance to focus that the issue of secretary to the trust council was

[4:38:02] Voice 11: not a legal issue that that

[4:38:03] Voice 11: was the ambit of the council to make its own decisions about how to

[4:38:07] Voice 11: conduct this affairs yeah

[4:38:09] Voice 48: and and indeed and and to give uh to to to redefine what the secretary's

[4:38:18] Voice 48: functions would be like to totally and and make it more a a secretarial support to the council

[4:38:26] Voice 48: as opposed to being a staff member of the organization.

[4:38:37] Voice 48: Much like, say, if I equate that to the federal system,

[4:38:44] Voice 48: to have a cabinet secretariat like we have in the Privy Council office

[4:38:48] Voice 48: to support cabinet committees and cabinet.

[4:38:50] Voice 48: So that's the kind of concept that we would have, that I would have in mind in thinking of a secretary.

[4:39:00] Voice 48: So they define, they help define what's going to be on your agenda and according to the priorities of the council and not see council receiving sundries of items for discussion with a thousand pages, not digested for you, not organized in a way that they are chewable.

[4:39:28] Voice 48: Like this, you're almost in front of an impossible task sometimes, you know, I've seen so many of committees that have no other, almost no other option than to either oppose everything or rubber stamp everything.

[4:39:49] Voice 48: So that's like you have to equip yourself with a secretary that will help you manage the agenda.

[4:40:00] Voice 48: Council should manage the agenda.

[4:40:03] Voice 48: And a secretary to council would help very much so in that capacity.

[4:40:13] Trustee Grove: Okay, thank you.

[4:40:14] Trustee Grove: So now Peter Grove.

[4:40:16] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[4:40:17] Trustee Grove: And first of all, I really appreciate the positive feedback you gave us about the what sounds like united support from the trustees for the trust and what we do.

[4:40:27] Trustee Grove: I have to say that makes me feel good, makes me feel good about my fellow trustees.

[4:40:31] Trustee Grove: And thank you again for that. It seems to me that the main things I'm coming away is that we need to agree between us on the role of the trust.

[4:40:44] Trustee Grove: go back to some fundamentals we need to agree on the roles of the trustees again back to

[4:40:51] Trustee Grove: fundamentals and there i think we have different views on these things we need to improve on our

[4:40:57] Trustee Grove: governance um by uh through the corporate um the governance committee in addition to hiring a

[4:41:04] Trustee Grove: full-time corporate secretary but i want to get back to agreeing on the role of the trust and

[4:41:10] Trustee Grove: Here is my question. It hit me when you said we are an agency rather than a local government.

[4:41:20] Trustee Grove: And I appreciate hearing it from you because you know what you're talking about.

[4:41:24] Trustee Grove: I've heard it from others and I wasn't sure that I really understood that.

[4:41:28] Trustee Grove: But in terms of being an agency and we take on so much, in your view, do we take on too much?

[4:41:35] Trustee Grove: Are we stretching ourselves in terms of the kind of work we do, which is very often quite removed from land use planning, which is our core reason to exist?

[4:41:49] Trustee Grove: So, yeah, are we trying to do too much, be too much when actually we are an agency and not a local government?

[4:41:56] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[4:41:58] Voice 11: I do think you're taking on too much and some of it not successfully, which is frustrating.

[4:42:03] Voice 11: many of you to know oh sorry i do think you're taking on too much and some of it because you're

[4:42:10] Voice 11: so thinly spread unsuccessfully which just further erodes trust and your relevance right

[4:42:16] Voice 11: that's why i coupled what i said with the management review um the management review

[4:42:23] Voice 11: would start to expose how you're allocating your resources what you're allocating your resources to

[4:42:28] Voice 11: and i'm not saying you're doing that now because you're also being asked given where we are in the

[4:42:32] Voice 11: fiscal year to approve a budget right so you're doing a management review to a look to the future

[4:42:37] Voice 11: and a look to what the focus is um so um and the balance of land use planning um

[4:42:51] Voice 11: it's a tool and an instrument it's not the only tool and instrument you've been given

[4:42:56] Voice 11: and an over reliance just on that tool and instrument will also lead you into problems

[4:43:01] Voice 11: so i agree with everything you said in your comment i'm just putting a little footnote there

[4:43:06] Voice 11: that that that requires some more exploration by all of you as a group um and then it also requires

[4:43:13] Voice 11: that you should look into those powers that we talked about earlier that have never been used

[4:43:18] Voice 11: that are in the act those powers of direction so therefore those have to be coupled with you

[4:43:25] Voice 11: having a pretty good idea of where you want to head and then asking the provincial government

[4:43:29] Voice 11: for direction to be able to proceed in those directions so um you are taking on too much

[4:43:35] Voice 11: and some of it not effectively i would agree okay

[4:43:42] Trustee Luckham: thank you um alex allen thank

[4:43:47] Voice 16: you chair um

[4:43:50] Voice 16: excuse me given that this is an election year and um a whole different makeup at this trust council

[4:43:58] Voice 16: and uh it's you know time is just bobbing along really fast i've noticed i'm just wondering

[4:44:03] Voice 16: how you see this playing out you feel like we should just start it right away um um yeah because

[4:44:09] Voice 16: those previous uh studies the 2007 ones you know new action was taken on either them it could be

[4:44:18] Voice 16: just the appetite of the particular council then or whatever but i'm just worried about this

[4:44:21] Voice 16: suddenly falling off the rails but it also is election year so i'm just seeing how you're

[4:44:25] Voice 16: actually visualizing how it's going to play out i

[4:44:31] Voice 11: do um i'm mindful of what you've just said

[4:44:36] Voice 11: and this is what I would say. I'd say that there's some things you can, as good stewards

[4:44:41] Voice 11: of the organization you've been asked to provide direction and oversight over, begin now,

[4:44:48] Voice 11: governance, some of these other aspects that I said we'll order for you. And then I think that's

[4:44:54] Voice 11: important because if you're going into elections, it may have an impact. I mean, some of you have

[4:44:59] Voice 11: joked about whether I'll run again, whether I won't run again. Many of you have joked about

[4:45:03] Voice 11: but I've had enough. You're not really joking. You said those things in greater color to us and

[4:45:08] Voice 11: many of our conversations. So if you're serious as good stewards and wanting to attract a good

[4:45:16] Voice 11: caliber, I'm not being subjective as to what their opinions ought to be when they get here.

[4:45:21] Voice 11: A good caliber of person to replace yourselves, or even if you're running for office, to make

[4:45:29] Voice 11: Make sure that you're attracting the right kind of people who look upon this as a

[4:45:32] Voice 11: deliberative body where they'll make a contribution.

[4:45:36] Voice 11: I think there's some things you have to put in place even before an election.

[4:45:39] Voice 11: And yes, then you have to trust those who come back or those who are elected afresh

[4:45:45] Voice 11: to follow through.

[4:45:46] Voice 11: And in whatever you leave behind, you'll have to leave them with all the argumentation

[4:45:51] Voice 11: as to why it's taking you this time and the kind of deliberation you're going to go

[4:45:56] Voice 11: through to come to this conclusion and why they would be well served to follow through you know

[4:46:02] Voice 11: the letter you will leave in your top drawer desk so that they understand what you've learned in

[4:46:07] Voice 11: your four years or your 20 years or your 15 years about what you need what needs doing here in order

[4:46:14] Voice 11: to make this a successful operation you can wait but i wouldn't advise that because that has an

[4:46:22] Voice 11: impact on the quality of what's going to come in the door i think and by the way it also has an

[4:46:27] Voice 11: an impact on staff who don't have a voice in this conversation, but it has an impact on them.

[4:46:33] Voice 11: The more functional you are, the better they can perform for you. The more functional you are,

[4:46:38] Voice 11: the more direction you can give, the more they'll understand your priorities. Because right now,

[4:46:42] Voice 11: they're trying to boil the ocean for you. And that's not fair either. And that's why you're

[4:46:46] Voice 11: not successful. And that's why you're taking on too much. Because they're actually trying to

[4:46:50] Voice 11: please you by doing everything you're asking them to do. And it can't be done with the resources

[4:46:55] Voice 11: and the issues you have on your agenda.

[4:47:00] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for that, MF.

[4:47:02] Trustee Luckham: And I'll turn to Laura Beshaken,

[4:47:04] Trustee Luckham: and then I think that's pretty much the end of my speakers.

[4:47:06] Trustee Luckham: There's maybe a time for discussion about what we want to do here.

[4:47:10] Trustee Luckham: Laura?

[4:47:11] Voice 9: Thank you.

[4:47:12] Voice 9: Yeah, that was really useful, and this is a follow-up question,

[4:47:15] Voice 9: and I'm wondering if you could get specific.

[4:47:17] Voice 9: You said that the priority in terms of the timing,

[4:47:23] Voice 9: it being an election year,

[4:47:24] Voice 9: would be to put in place the things that we need to attract quality people to stand for election

[4:47:32] Voice 9: and be elected and to come in and have that quality supported. So what do you think those

[4:47:41] Voice 9: priority items are? I assume remuneration is one, but are there others?

[4:47:48] Voice 11: Laura, I would undertake to give you by tomorrow morning, I'll bring it to the chair

[4:47:53] Voice 11: or i'll send it to the chair electronically uh my terms of reference and my list of priorities

[4:47:59] Voice 11: and what i would do that you could turn into a focused discussion uh and then decide what you

[4:48:06] Voice 11: want to do with it so i i can do that for you or if you want me to send it to the chair of the

[4:48:12] Voice 11: select committee however you want me to do it i will i will do it for you but give me till the

[4:48:15] Voice 11: morning so i'm not making it up as i go along here give it i'm

[4:48:22] Trustee Luckham: sorry laura you said something

[4:48:23] Trustee Luckham: Oh, I

[4:48:25] Voice 9: just said, well, thank you. And I think that's a great idea. And I would love it if it could be sent to all of us.

[4:48:31] Voice 11: Right.

[4:48:34] Voice 11: Us, we'll make sure it gets to all of you, I guess.

[4:48:41] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so I do see another question from David Critsley. And I want to make sure we do get all the questions before we move to the next concept. But

[4:48:51] Trustee Critchley: David Critsley.

[4:48:52] Trustee Critchley: Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to take this opportunity to ask experts a view on a question that I find troubling from time to time.

[4:49:04] Trustee Critchley: And it's in focus right now because we're getting a lot of commentary on our budget.

[4:49:10] Trustee Critchley: We, as a matter of course, always put matters out to the public for consultation or surveys, feedback.

[4:49:20] Trustee Critchley: back. But there seems to be a perception among the public that we don't operate in a democratic

[4:49:27] Trustee Critchley: fashion. And I think by that, they mean that we don't follow their wishes. And they perceive

[4:49:38] Trustee Critchley: themselves as being either a majority or a substantial minority that we ought to take

[4:49:43] Trustee Critchley: notice of. And I perceive that in this categorization of us as being an agency,

[4:49:55] Trustee Critchley: a special purpose agency, as opposed to a pure local government, that there's probably a

[4:50:01] Trustee Critchley: distinction in our democratic relationship with the constituents, our residents, and indeed all

[4:50:09] Trustee Critchley: all the people of British Columbia whom we serve.

[4:50:13] Trustee Critchley: We have this higher obligation here,

[4:50:16] Trustee Critchley: a direct mandate to preserve and protect.

[4:50:19] Trustee Critchley: And we are trustees and not elected counselors as such.

[4:50:26] Trustee Critchley: So I see myself perhaps naively

[4:50:29] Trustee Critchley: as not so much being a politician as a trustee.

[4:50:33] Trustee Critchley: And I'd be really interested in your comments

[4:50:35] Trustee Critchley: about the democratic role of council,

[4:50:42] Trustee Critchley: particularly as it may be contrasted

[4:50:45] Trustee Critchley: with a purely political body.

[4:50:48] Trustee Critchley: Thanks.

[4:50:52] Voice 11: It's a long question that I would have loved

[4:50:56] Voice 11: to have engagement with the province,

[4:50:59] Voice 11: so I could, because in some matter,

[4:51:02] Voice 11: one would have to speak with their voice on this issue.

[4:51:05] Voice 11: They did make you democratically elected trustees

[4:51:10] Voice 11: they didn't intend to make you the same as local government but exploring that territory with them

[4:51:20] Voice 11: is kind of essential to figure out i think you're nodding to trustees more than you're

[4:51:26] Voice 11: nodding to local government but that's not the way the majority of council presents themselves

[4:51:36] Voice 11: selves or behaves just does do people see what i mean by that

[4:51:44] Voice 32: i am

[4:51:45] Voice 11: saying that i think in your

[4:51:47] Voice 11: legislation jim sylvan pay attention to what i'm saying in your legislation you're more trustees

[4:51:54] Voice 11: than you are local government the way you present yourself especially at the local level

[4:52:01] Voice 11: you're presenting yourself you may not be using the words but you're presenting yourself like

[4:52:06] Voice 11: like local government. That gets you into problems. The moment you have to leave your

[4:52:11] Voice 11: local government table and come to this table where you're supposed to take off

[4:52:15] Voice 11: only the local hat and add to it the federated hat. So you have a duty to the whole Islands Trust

[4:52:21] Voice 11: area, as well as the local knowledge, which makes you effective at the federated table.

[4:52:28] Voice 11: And many of you are using language and presenting issues in such a way that you are local government

[4:52:35] Voice 11: and you weren't intended to by the trust the items trust act but because relevance is a moving

[4:52:46] Voice 11: target in an elected context and because i don't want to set you up for one form or another

[4:52:52] Voice 11: without dialogue with the province who actually crafted that legislation i think this is one of

[4:52:59] Voice 11: those issues that's got to be on your list for discussion with the province you're not saying

[4:53:04] Voice 11: saying we demand to be trustees or we demand to be local government because the law says you're

[4:53:09] Voice 11: trustees, your acts

[4:53:11] Voice 11: as your trustees. So what does that mean in the areas when you've been

[4:53:15] Voice 11: asked to act a little bit like local government? You need an answer to that question and you need

[4:53:21] Voice 11: an answer to, within a range, on a continuum, what you think the answer to that question is

[4:53:28] Voice 11: for people in your position wearing those dual responsibilities local trust and the islands trust

[4:53:35] Voice 11: and those are the kinds of questions that you should bring to your governance committee

[4:53:41] Voice 11: and that your governance committee should do some work on and bring back to you as a full council

[4:53:47] Voice 11: that's the spirit of the deliberation we're talking about you'll be much better off answering

[4:53:52] Voice 11: those questions than half the stuff on your agendas. Because those are the questions that

[4:53:58] Voice 11: get you into a pickle. And those are the questions that have you ask the question about,

[4:54:05] Voice 11: I really don't feel like an elected politician in the world of this, but you are elected.

[4:54:09] Voice 11: That's the mechanism that was chose to bring you here. So, and you have to, you have to do more

[4:54:15] Voice 11: than pay lip service to those who are electing you. I get that. That's the relevance piece, right?

[4:54:19] Voice 11: Right. So if you're relevant and you're trusted, then people are going to follow you and the people are going to follow you, the people that elect you.

[4:54:28] Voice 11: If they question your relevance and therefore they don't trust what's going on here or don't understand what's going on here, it then erodes trust.

[4:54:38] Voice 11: Right. And then they kind of think you're all over the place and you're not focused and you're not dealing with my issues.

[4:54:44] Voice 11: so it ends up being a vicious cycle and the way that you're trying to deal with it is to do a

[4:54:50] Voice 11: little bit of everything all things to all people which is why you're doing too much of things

[4:54:54] Voice 11: and not focused on the things you ought to be doing so that's my assessment but you're all

[4:55:01] Voice 11: trying right you're all here with the right focus with the right intent with the right

[4:55:08] Voice 11: even those of you that think you have widely differing values they're not that widely

[4:55:13] Voice 11: deadly differing because they would have come out differently in the

[4:55:17] Voice 11: interviews. If they were,

[4:55:19] Voice 11: you would have said different things about each other and about the process.

[4:55:22] Voice 11: And you didn't get every opportunity. You didn't,

[4:55:26] Voice 11: even when I poked you with a sharp stick, you didn't. And I tried,

[4:55:30] Voice 11: I tried to get you to say awful things. It didn't work.

[4:55:35] Voice 11: Even when I was sneaky, it didn't work.

[4:55:38] Trustee Luckham: Well, when you got skin as tough as an alligator,

[4:55:41] Trustee Luckham: you got to really use a sharp stick. I

[4:55:44] Trustee Luckham: tried, you know,

[4:55:47] Trustee Luckham: I certainly want to get to discussion, but I see more hands popping up. Steve has just dropped his hand. And Peter Grove, did you have a tiny little question you want to make? So, Peter Grove,

[4:55:57] Trustee Grove: you're next.

[4:56:00] Trustee Grove: Thank you. But there's a void, which I think we are filling, and that's the problem. And I'm not sure how we don't do that. I mean, for instance, a topic right now, which somehow we seem to have got totally involved with, is the ferry service.

[4:56:12] Trustee Grove: I mean, why are we getting into that debate? That's not our job at all. And that's just an example. But nobody else seems to do so. And then our account constituents seem to put us on the charger and say, go for it, fix it. So I don't know how to answer that.

[4:56:30] Trustee Grove: I

[4:56:32] Voice 11: don't know how to answer it like on any given issue at any given point. I do know that you haven't clearly defined what you're doing. And if there's a vacuum and they can't figure out what you're doing, then they're going to ask you to fill the vacuum. Right. So every time they have a problem, well, we don't know exactly what these guys do, but the Islands Trust should do it. Right. Well, that's not the way things, that's not good governance at any level.

[4:56:56] Voice 11: and part of that is education right so educating people want to run for trust council educating

[4:57:01] Voice 11: the communities at large in a proactive sense not just when an issue comes up and you don't want to

[4:57:06] Voice 11: do it sort of like there ought to be as part of this new approach a whole sort of thrust that

[4:57:12] Voice 11: goes back and re-engages with the community about what you're doing what you're not doing here

[4:57:19] Voice 11: you've chosen to engage with them on the policy statement which raises all those bigger thornier

[4:57:23] Voice 11: issues that actually require trust and that's where this becomes a kind of a vicious circle

[4:57:31] Voice 32: and

[4:57:32] Voice 11: i want you to address that part of it before you keep falling into the same ditch

[4:57:38] Voice 11: okay

[4:57:40] Trustee Luckham: thank you thank you council and um i think i'll just make a a brief closing kind of remark

[4:57:47] Trustee Luckham: and give you the opportunity to exit stage left if you wish but you're certainly welcome to hang

[4:57:51] Trustee Luckham: around for the discussion but i want to thank you for the report i've read it a number of times um

[4:58:02] Trustee Luckham: did

[4:58:02] Voice 25: i say something important anyway

[4:58:05] Trustee Luckham: i want to thank you for that um and certainly i've always

[4:58:10] Trustee Luckham: looked at this body of work and this work as the opportunity and what i have come to i have lots

[4:58:17] Trustee Luckham: of questions and i have some concerns and i don't necessarily agree with everything um however i

[4:58:22] Trustee Luckham: I think that what you've done for us is you put a mirror in front of us from a third party observation of what we are and who we are and how we're doing it.

[4:58:32] Trustee Luckham: And we don't have to agree on the context of it.

[4:58:34] Trustee Luckham: What we're doing, Trust Council, is looking at that mirror at trustees more so than anything else, that leadership.

[4:58:41] Trustee Luckham: And I know you've heard me talk about leadership over the years.

[4:58:45] Trustee Luckham: And so I simply want to thank you for that.

[4:58:48] Trustee Luckham: And I'll just say without criticism, to some extent, it's an academic lens, right?

[4:58:53] Trustee Luckham: An ideal governance model structure.

[4:58:57] Trustee Luckham: There is a political lens, practical lens.

[4:59:01] Trustee Luckham: And somehow together, and I said that in my message to you before we came to council,

[4:59:05] Trustee Luckham: together, we can work to figure out how this works.

[4:59:09] Trustee Luckham: And thank you also for noting that consensus isn't unanimous.

[4:59:15] Trustee Luckham: We need to figure out what we want to do and how we do it.

[4:59:18] Trustee Luckham: So thank you very much. And indeed, give them a warm welcome. Thank you.

[4:59:27] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Charles. And that's Sylvain up on the screen there. Thank you for joining us.

[4:59:37] Trustee Luckham: Oh, you know, I just want to actually say thank you for the reminder about expectations.

[4:59:43] Trustee Luckham: My expectation tomorrow is we have a full agenda.

[4:59:47] Trustee Luckham: We have some business in this context, not the academic context of where we want to go.

[4:59:55] Trustee Luckham: We have business to do tomorrow, and we have budget to do.

[5:00:00] Trustee Luckham: know what our ability to have further discussion on terms of reference is, because I remember the

[5:00:05] Trustee Luckham: last two conversations we've had on terms of reference have been very contentious. So I don't

[5:00:10] Trustee Luckham: want to set unreasonable expectations, but please send it on. There's no harm in that. However, I

[5:00:18] Trustee Luckham: don't know what our capacity to have that discussion tomorrow really is. Perhaps it's

[5:00:25] Trustee Luckham: It's Thursday. But a pattern has always been is there's always an interest in heading home on Thursdays.

[5:00:32] Trustee Luckham: And there's a leadership call to do that. One leads everybody leaving the room

[5:00:36] Trustee Luckham: and the others lead the conversation in the room.

[5:00:40] Trustee Luckham: Be that as it may. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[5:00:46] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. I'm going to start a fresh sheet of paper and see how we want to handle this discussion.

[5:00:59] Trustee Luckham: And I am going to turn your minds back again once more to the briefing that came with this and that you should consider the content in there.

[5:01:07] Trustee Luckham: And Dan Rogers, it looks like you've got your hand up first.

[5:01:09] Trustee Luckham: Anybody else want to put up their hand or follow Dan when he's ready?

[5:01:15] Trustee Rogers: Laura.

[5:01:17] Trustee Luckham: OK, thank you.

[5:01:21] Trustee Rogers: So thank you. I have a suggestion and I want to throw it on the table because I think we need to just answer.

[5:01:34] Trustee Rogers: To an extent, Alex's question, I think we need to do something this term.

[5:01:40] Trustee Rogers: And we need to actually try and create some ground for whoever the next trust council is to take some of these recommendations and move forward with them.

[5:01:49] Trustee Rogers: And there are some things that we might, specific things that we might want to do this term.

[5:01:56] Trustee Rogers: but i'm also mindful that i don't think we should uh leap into any uh long-term action commitments

[5:02:06] Trustee Rogers: without careful consideration of the report um so for example let me just um just say that uh not

[5:02:16] Trustee Rogers: that anybody's i think is going to propose that i think there are some challenging questions that

[5:02:20] Trustee Rogers: arise out of the commentary uh regarding our our employment relationship with a variety of people

[5:02:27] Trustee Rogers: i think those issues need to be addressed with province etc in any case um lori i i i put some

[5:02:34] Trustee Rogers: words together and they're only words of my thoughts and i lori do you have them can you

[5:02:39] Trustee Rogers: put them up on the screen and it's not in the form of a motion yet but it could be

[5:02:47] Trustee Rogers: but these are just my thoughts although it says I move and she took out the context section

[5:02:54] Trustee Rogers: but that's okay and I it's too small for me to read so what I'm thinking in my brain and my

[5:03:02] Trustee Rogers: concept is is that what we need is a small group as a what I'm calling a governance review

[5:03:10] Trustee Rogers: implementation committee, which would be a short-term committee to review the report

[5:03:17] Trustee Rogers: and work with CAO to develop a series of recommendations to the Trust Council

[5:03:25] Trustee Rogers: regarding the various aspects of the recommendations from the governance report,

[5:03:35] Trustee Rogers: including if there's a recommendation, as there's a fairly strong recommendation of what

[5:03:39] Trustee Rogers: an ongoing governance committee might look like the terms of reference of that etc but allow staff

[5:03:47] Trustee Rogers: to have input etc so so it would be a short-term ad hoc governance review implementation committee

[5:03:54] Trustee Rogers: be struck with a mandate to consider and discuss the governance review report and make

[5:04:02] Trustee Rogers: recommendations to trust council on implementation steps including prioritizing

[5:04:09] Trustee Rogers: recommendations both in short long medium and long term and in regards to importance

[5:04:17] Trustee Rogers: and then the committee will be comprised and then i've talked about what the committee might look

[5:04:22] Trustee Rogers: like of five trustees one from the executive four elected in the normal fashion at trust council

[5:04:29] Trustee Rogers: the committee will then choose a chair who's not a member of the executive not the executive and

[5:04:35] Trustee Rogers: that the cao and the executive secretary would be the staff as they were to the select committee

[5:04:41] Trustee Rogers: resource and the committee would report back with its outline and recommendations to the september

[5:04:46] Trustee Rogers: 2022 trust council and i i chose that date only because we're we have a lot on our agenda trust

[5:04:54] Trustee Rogers: at the trust right now particularly with the trust policy statement i considered june um but thought

[5:05:01] Trustee Rogers: that was probably too short a time frame uh to do uh justice to this work to allow a group of five

[5:05:07] Trustee Rogers: people to get together and work through and bring those recommendations but that would still allow

[5:05:11] Trustee Rogers: enough time to do things that would impact the next trust council for example it might bring

[5:05:18] Trustee Rogers: recommendations if those aren't already on the table here um to about how the executive is

[5:05:25] Trustee Rogers: elected for example because that seems to be a point of consideration it would also allow time

[5:05:30] Trustee Rogers: for uh a recommendation regarding the terms of reference of a what i'll call a permanent or an

[5:05:37] Trustee Rogers: ongoing uh governance committee um and there might be some other things that need to be done so i'm

[5:05:43] Trustee Rogers: just going to put that on the table and i thought maybe if it's equated with the chair rather than

[5:05:48] Trustee Rogers: make it a motion at this point put it on as a as a uh an idea a way forward from my view for

[5:05:55] Trustee Rogers: discussion and that we could then if people are supportive of it or some form of it we could make

[5:06:00] Trustee Rogers: it a motion and uh and move it um and and make it the decision of trust council from today and we

[5:06:09] Trustee Rogers: could take the information that we get from the kind offer to give us some proposed terms of

[5:06:15] Trustee Rogers: reference those can be run through the filter of our staff and and how we can what we can resource

[5:06:21] Trustee Rogers: etc and what we think can be done and then that committee that that interim committee can bring

[5:06:26] Trustee Rogers: it back to the trust council so that's my suggestion

[5:06:28] Voice 25: well

[5:06:32] Trustee Rogers: i can make the motion but you

[5:06:34] Trustee Rogers: can either do it that way we can either make a motion and and then debate it but i i sort of

[5:06:41] Trustee Rogers: thought we might talk about it first so

[5:06:44] Trustee Luckham: you know that's one of these interesting things about

[5:06:49] Trustee Luckham: process and leadership and indeed decisions at council are made by motion all right and discussion

[5:06:55] Trustee Luckham: um and so but therefore you know i have a little speakers list going here and laura may have i know

[5:07:02] Trustee Luckham: it's the next one and she may have something to discuss alex may have something to discuss

[5:07:06] Trustee Luckham: and Steve may have something to discuss

[5:07:08] Trustee Luckham: and we don't necessarily advance

[5:07:11] Trustee Luckham: to a decision-making place.

[5:07:13] Trustee Luckham: So without a motion being put on the floor,

[5:07:16] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to go to Laura Bushekin

[5:07:18] Trustee Luckham: and I'll put Paul Brent on the discussion list.

[5:07:21] Voice 32: Thank you.

[5:07:22] Voice 32: And I take your point,

[5:07:23] Voice 32: but is this on?

[5:07:25] Voice 32: Oh, I'm sorry.

[5:07:26] Voice 9: I haven't.

[5:07:26] Voice 9: Oh, okay.

[5:07:28] Voice 9: Yeah, and thank you, Chair Luckham.

[5:07:31] Voice 9: It is good to know where we're going,

[5:07:34] Voice 9: but I'd also think a little bit of open-ended discussion

[5:07:37] Voice 9: has its place too so um i i mean i would be and when i put myself on this business i didn't know

[5:07:44] Voice 9: what was coming up i would be in favor of this um my only sort of hesitation is we did have that

[5:07:53] Voice 9: very um kind offer from the consultant to provide i believe that i was taking notes it was a some

[5:08:01] Voice 9: ideas around terms of reference how and she mentioned how to appoint like how to actually

[5:08:07] Voice 9: create such a committee um and it could be that once we see that in our inboxes we will have a

[5:08:14] Voice 9: new idea of how to go about this and i'm wondering if we do want to delay this we could go and do

[5:08:21] Voice 9: some of the wednesday morning um session right now it's mostly reports and then carve out half

[5:08:29] Voice 9: an hour for tomorrow so that we have the benefit to learn from this one page report that's coming

[5:08:35] Voice 9: before us. That being said, I wouldn't necessarily vote against this because things can be shifted

[5:08:44] Voice 9: and incorporated later. But I do think we need to get some things in place really as soon as

[5:08:53] Voice 9: possible because of the timing of the election.

[5:08:58] Trustee Luckham: You can see that Laura Bershakins is a savvy

[5:09:02] Trustee Luckham: past executive committee member. That's good. I'm going to go to Alex Allen, though.

[5:09:08] Voice 16: Yeah, thank you. I like this idea, Dan. I'm just wondering, in terms of continuity,

[5:09:15] Voice 16: are you just assuming that, or are you preferring to have the same group of people once again on

[5:09:22] Voice 16: this committee or would it be better if we had a different group of people than on this new

[5:09:27] Voice 16: committee because you know with fresh arrives so i just wondered how you were seeing the committee

[5:09:32] Voice 16: membership would be like it

[5:09:33] Trustee Rogers: would be a brand new committee elected here at trust council presumably

[5:09:39] Trustee Rogers: in this in the course of this meeting at some point um so that's my my view and

[5:09:47] Trustee Luckham: i'll just note of course that terms of reference could potentially be developed by the

[5:09:54] Trustee Luckham: committee but there's some complexities around the process and best practice and all that sort of

[5:09:59] Trustee Luckham: stuff but let's go to from alex we're going to go to steve right oh sorry

[5:10:06] Voice 16: is there an amount of

[5:10:08] Voice 16: people in this committee five

[5:10:10] Voice 40: five seconds i suggested five good number steve somebody turn

[5:10:21] Voice 40: their microphone on yeah that's

[5:10:23] Voice 40: that was

[5:10:24] Voice 39: my that was my first question was whether the select

[5:10:27] Voice 39: standing committee would carry on or whether it would be disbanded and and that's been answered

[5:10:33] Voice 39: my second query would be that i think the timeline is too long i don't see any reason

[5:10:40] Voice 39: why it can't be done for next by at least june because we are time short with the with the

[5:10:47] Voice 39: election and i really do believe that if we're going to move on this report then we should show

[5:10:52] Voice 39: show some continuity and show some real determination in moving it forward.

[5:10:56] Voice 39: The second item I'd like to suggest is if we're going to form a committee,

[5:11:03] Voice 39: I know this is going to be the death knell for many trustees,

[5:11:08] Voice 39: but I think we should hire somebody to provide mentorship and some advice to this community on the governance,

[5:11:16] Voice 39: preferably from this consultant group if they're available and they're willing to sit,

[5:11:20] Voice 39: because I think some of these items are far too big

[5:11:24] Voice 39: for anyone sitting at this table.

[5:11:26] Voice 39: And I mean that with all respect.

[5:11:28] Voice 39: I just think it's too much for us to manage

[5:11:30] Voice 39: and I think we need help with it.

[5:11:32] Voice 39: So thank you.

[5:11:34] Voice 39: Thank you.

[5:11:35] Trustee Luckham: So keep that in mind when the budget comes up tomorrow.

[5:11:37] Trustee Luckham: Paul Brent.

[5:11:40] Voice 41: I like five members.

[5:11:42] Voice 41: I think that's really good.

[5:11:42] Voice 41: And thank you for putting together something

[5:11:44] Voice 41: that we can talk about.

[5:11:45] Voice 41: I think it's excellent.

[5:11:46] Voice 41: I also like Laura's idea.

[5:11:48] Voice 41: That's really good.

[5:11:50] Voice 41: A little uncomfortable, honestly,

[5:11:51] Voice 41: with having the CAO and the executive secretary given a

[5:11:56] Voice 14: little

[5:11:58] Voice 41: uncomfortable with having both

[5:11:59] Voice 41: the CAO and executive secretary, and particularly the latter, because coming up with a corporate

[5:12:06] Voice 41: secretary function is one of the serious recommendations. So I'm just wondering if

[5:12:11] Voice 41: there's a little conflict there, just

[5:12:13] Trustee Rogers: a concern. I'll tell you my thinking. I actually dropped it

[5:12:17] Trustee Rogers: without the executive secretary, but I also know that she played a pretty key role for your select

[5:12:22] Trustee Rogers: committee you just don't get minutes without somebody so that's the only reason i was thinking

[5:12:26] Trustee Rogers: but it could be somebody else i suppose um that's all so you could take that i'm not stuck on that

[5:12:31] Trustee Rogers: and

[5:12:33] Trustee Luckham: i'm just going to say out loud here right there's a difference because if we're talking

[5:12:38] Trustee Luckham: about the executive secretary i believe we're talking about laurie the secretary as discussed

[5:12:44] Trustee Luckham: by the governance committee is not laurie that is carmen too so there's a big difference

[5:12:55] Trustee Luckham: it's that's the way it is

[5:12:56] Voice 32: well

[5:13:01] Trustee Luckham: then i need some clarity on that uh cao hudson pillar we all need

[5:13:06] Voice 27: some clarity on that one mr chair so there is quite a bit of thinking there um obviously this

[5:13:13] Voice 27: isn't uh maybe the time for advice um at this point but no there's uh as described there were

[5:13:20] Voice 27: two two roles that aren't necessarily the same role um carmen's role the manager of legislative

[5:13:27] Voice 27: services is a fiduciary role that's not really involved in advice on various political initiatives

[5:13:34] Voice 27: it's um fiduciary because it's um much like the treasurer it's a and all regional districts and

[5:13:42] Voice 27: all municipalities have the same requirement and so it's very legislative role around um agenda

[5:13:47] Voice 27: setting legislative requirements um i think what was contemplated is some assistance and some means

[5:13:53] Voice 27: of providing communication back and forth

[5:13:56] Voice 27: between LTCs, providing advice on getting

[5:14:02] Voice 27: the right information in front of you,

[5:14:03] Voice 27: which might be a different role.

[5:14:04] Voice 27: So any proposed committee would start to dig

[5:14:07] Voice 27: into what is really needed

[5:14:10] Voice 27: and define that job description.

[5:14:12] Voice 40: Right.

[5:14:13] Voice 40: Well, nonetheless, that's a recording role

[5:14:16] Voice 40: that would be in the committee, I'm presuming.

[5:14:18] Voice 40: But anyway.

[5:14:19] Voice 40: The committee is recording.

[5:14:20] Voice 40: Yeah.

[5:14:21] Voice 25: lord we're not talking right secretary yeah which is often called corporate

[5:14:31] Voice 27: yeah yeah some would

[5:14:33] Voice 27: even say that the cao is the is uh has been the corporate secretary in the past um okay trust so

[5:14:39] Voice 27: there's some there's some a bit of complexity but i don't think it's going to be so i stand

[5:14:42] Trustee Luckham: a problem yeah and we'll move along so thank you paul uh do you finished your yeah okay so

[5:14:49] Trustee Luckham: So Laura Patrick, you're next, and then Lee Middleton.

[5:14:53] Voice 15: I absolutely, this, we need a step.

[5:14:57] Voice 15: Well, I really liked the governance committee, and there was a trustee actually who had recommended,

[5:15:02] Voice 15: because right here we're sitting in the city of Nanaimo that has a governance committee,

[5:15:05] Voice 15: and I think I sent the terms of reference to anyone who said, gee, is there a terms of reference I could see?

[5:15:09] Voice 15: Right here in Nanaimo.

[5:15:10] Voice 15: So there are people we can talk to and learn about, you know, the good and the bad and what we could do here.

[5:15:17] Voice 15: And like I said, right here in Nanaimo, we could do a field trip.

[5:15:20] Voice 15: I think this would be a good step is to, you know, to evaluate what we can do, take a look at what needs to be done. I think there could be a goal to try to come back with anything in June that could be possibly ready that may, you know, may help attract or help support anyone who's considering for running as trustee, because that would be true that September would be a little late for influencing those type of things.

[5:15:47] Voice 15: So I think they're trying to do it as quickly as possible. I think from the committee, I would also give some consideration to a geographic representation.

[5:15:57] Voice 15: I think that's important.

[5:16:02] Trustee Luckham: And that would be part of the terms of reference, I guess.

[5:16:05] Trustee Luckham: So I see if you don't mind, Case, I see Peter Johnson's hand is up and I want to make sure I'm getting the online presence here as well as the in person.

[5:16:12] Trustee Luckham: And so I'm going to go to Peter Johnson and I'll come back to Case. Thank you, Case.

[5:16:17] Trustee Johnston: thank you i just wanted to say i would like to see at least an interim report at our june meeting

[5:16:25] Trustee Luckham: yeah okay thank you peter case long rise

[5:16:29] Voice 38: i just wanted to clarify then this committee is going

[5:16:34] Voice 38: to look at the options that are available for a committee that's going to do the further work

[5:16:40] Voice 38: right it's a short-term committee so if it doesn't report in june it would then

[5:16:44] Voice 38: we dissolve itself basically based on whatever the recommendations are it's not the committee

[5:16:49] Voice 38: that's going to carry out the whole process i'm not clear on and because they talked about

[5:16:54] Voice 38: expertise as well and and representation area representation so i just wanted to clarify that

[5:17:00] Voice 38: well

[5:17:01] Trustee Rogers: i can only clarify my intent um my intent is is that this committee would absolutely dissolve

[5:17:07] Trustee Rogers: once it's done its report because presumably if it recommended a new governance committee it would

[5:17:12] Trustee Rogers: would recommend the structure it would recommend how it's created what its terms of reference are

[5:17:18] Trustee Rogers: etc and that would become a separate committee and presumably a an ongoing committee a part of

[5:17:24] Trustee Rogers: our committee structure if that's what it recommend but it wouldn't be just that committee

[5:17:28] Trustee Rogers: there are some other recommendations in the in the report uh vice chair packard's right one of

[5:17:35] Trustee Rogers: them is about training of of our education for potential trustees that want to run for election

[5:17:40] Trustee Rogers: although I will say that's already on our work program at the executive committee.

[5:17:44] Trustee Rogers: The CAO brought that to us a couple of months ago that there were some ideas about that.

[5:17:50] Trustee Rogers: And it also talked about the election of the executive.

[5:17:54] Trustee Rogers: So there's other things in the report that it may make some interim recommendations.

[5:17:58] Trustee Rogers: That's why I said here's they would make recommendations as the short, medium and longer term aspects.

[5:18:05] Trustee Rogers: Because one of the things I understood, and maybe I'm wrong, and this is what this interim committee could do, was she said, you need to do a management review, but that's something you'll do after you get your governance sort of straightened out, whatever that looks like.

[5:18:21] Trustee Rogers: And so that might be a more medium term objective, but delay those 12 or 15 recommendations or whatever there are in some order that you would, and bring them back for implementation. So the idea is, how do we implement this?

[5:18:35] Trustee Rogers: bring it back and then of course it's going to be very important to have staff input as to what's

[5:18:40] Trustee Rogers: possible and what's not possible so that's my thing so the idea would it would dissolve this

[5:18:46] Trustee Rogers: term and would not exist that particular interim ad hoc committee going into the next term

[5:18:55] Trustee Luckham: okay

[5:18:56] Trustee Luckham: thank you dan that's some really great clarity there certainly helps me understand the

[5:19:01] Trustee Luckham: concept here and is everybody else clear on the concept at this juncture yeah okay

[5:19:08] Trustee Luckham: and who is that where's that voice oh sorry yeah deb uh i again back so actually i've got case

[5:19:16] Trustee Luckham: i i offered him the next opportunity but i just wanted to be sure that we're getting closer but

[5:19:22] Trustee Luckham: let's go to case trustee morrison trustee peterson um and just as a footnote you know

[5:19:29] Trustee Luckham: Indeed, as Dan has hinted, the work has already begun to get to the next election and to get to the next council orientation.

[5:19:37] Trustee Luckham: Indeed, there's lots of questions that actually need to be addressed, like right now.

[5:19:43] Trustee Luckham: That work is underway.

[5:19:45] Trustee Luckham: Certainly, we will take everything, as always, we always take everything into account that we learn along the way.

[5:19:52] Trustee Luckham: When you decide whether you're going to take a detour here or there or not, when you're on a road trip, it's the same thing.

[5:19:59] Trustee Luckham: But anyway, that work is underway, so just be conscious of that.

[5:20:02] Trustee Luckham: So Case, Deb Morrison, Trustee Peterson.

[5:20:06] Trustee Luckham: Oh, you already asked the question.

[5:20:08] Trustee Luckham: Oh, that's right, you did.

[5:20:09] Trustee Luckham: Sorry.

[5:20:10] Trustee Luckham: I'm starting to lose it, folks.

[5:20:12] Trustee Luckham: The chair is losing it.

[5:20:14] Trustee Luckham: Deb Morrison, Trustee Peterson.

[5:20:16] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[5:20:18] Trustee Morrison: So a couple quick clarifying questions and maybe just a comment first.

[5:20:23] Trustee Morrison: So I do like the idea of regional representation.

[5:20:25] Trustee Morrison: presentation i do think that um the consultants offered to provide some terms of reference for

[5:20:31] Trustee Morrison: what a committee would look like might allow us to establish a framework for at least the

[5:20:35] Trustee Morrison: interim committee that's um you know based in that kind of governance knowledge so i would

[5:20:40] Trustee Morrison: i would actually want to wait for that if it's possible to have it tomorrow to think about

[5:20:45] Trustee Morrison: that in the context of establishing this this interim committee um because it might provide

[5:20:51] Trustee Morrison: us some guidance so the questions that I have one is just related to is that a timeline that's

[5:21:00] Trustee Morrison: possible to provide some some initial thinking of a very thin like like what's here in front of us

[5:21:05] Trustee Morrison: with with trustee rogers idea that can provide a little bit of a reference for an interim committee

[5:21:10] Trustee Morrison: is that something that's possible before the end of this trust council and then the second question

[5:21:16] Trustee Morrison: I have is related to the comment of the secretary.

[5:21:22] Trustee Morrison: So we are legislatively required to have a secretary

[5:21:26] Trustee Morrison: right now, as it says in section 17 of the act.

[5:21:30] Trustee Morrison: And I would like, not necessarily right now,

[5:21:32] Trustee Morrison: but I would like to know who that was.

[5:21:34] Trustee Morrison: It was an appointment apparently.

[5:21:36] Trustee Morrison: And so I would like to know who occupies that role.

[5:21:40] Trustee Morrison: So if I could know that before the end of trust council,

[5:21:42] Trustee Morrison: that'd be great too.

[5:21:43] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[5:21:45] Trustee Luckham: CAO can you just answer that question it's Carmen Teal yeah thank you trustee Peterson

[5:21:55] Trustee Luckham: sorry

[5:21:57] Trustee Morrison: there was the second question for the consultant I'm

[5:22:02] Trustee Luckham: sorry say that again Deb the

[5:22:03] Trustee Morrison: second question was for the consultant if we can actually have some version of a terms of reference

[5:22:07] Trustee Morrison: that is doable be like that would help us with this well

[5:22:13] Trustee Luckham: I understand they're going to attempt

[5:22:14] Trustee Luckham: to furnish that to us so and they're gone and but that was their commitment when they left the room

[5:22:21] Voice 25: they may not know they're gone

[5:22:23] Trustee Luckham: the

[5:22:24] Voice 25: people on screen may not know the consultants are gone

[5:22:27] Trustee Luckham: oh i'm sorry that's right you may not know yeah the consultants have left the room um as um they

[5:22:33] Trustee Luckham: were invited to do so if they wish but i do believe there was a commitment from them to

[5:22:37] Trustee Luckham: forward us whatever they had on hand not uh yeah and so ideally we might we might see that but um

[5:22:46] Trustee Luckham: I don't it's like one of a bird in hand and however that phrase goes anyway so thank you

[5:22:53] Trustee Luckham: Deb if you're all right I'll go to Tim Peterson yeah

[5:22:59] Voice 29: thank you chair I'm I'm in support of this

[5:23:02] Voice 29: in general terms I think that it's important that we take some action and that we take some action

[5:23:10] Voice 29: now especially with timelines of as many people mentioned the election coming up

[5:23:17] Voice 29: I'm in support of the idea of this being a short-term committee that could recommend

[5:23:22] Voice 29: a longer-term committee.

[5:23:25] Voice 29: I'm in support of some kind of reporting for June,

[5:23:31] Voice 33: and

[5:23:33] Voice 29: I'm in support of representation.

[5:23:39] Voice 29: And my big question would be about resourcing.

[5:23:44] Voice 29: missing and um uh so that's just a consideration that i'm not super clear on at this moment thank

[5:23:52] Voice 29: you and

[5:23:54] Trustee Luckham: just a word of warning that tim every time you turn your head your voice sort of goes off

[5:23:59] Trustee Luckham: into the ether world there um but maybe i'll just ask a question of clarity uh to be sure and perhaps

[5:24:06] Trustee Luckham: i already know the answer but i'll ask the question of dan um and that might help us is what i'm

[5:24:13] Trustee Luckham: hearing is so this is a in not just a short-term ad hoc governance review committee it's an interim

[5:24:22] Trustee Luckham: committee that would then ultimately make some recommendation that there would be a governance

[5:24:29] Trustee Luckham: committee and then the terms of reference that perhaps are being offered would be for the

[5:24:33] Trustee Luckham: long-term governance committee not necessarily the interim process of determining what you're

[5:24:39] Trustee Luckham: going to undertake yeah

[5:24:42] Trustee Rogers: yeah that i mean i think trustee right is correct but i mean having been

[5:24:48] Trustee Rogers: through one committee in my first term where we didn't have a very strong set of terms of

[5:24:55] Trustee Rogers: reference i understand the challenges of going of sort of throwing together an odd hack on odd

[5:25:00] Trustee Rogers: ad hoc committee without a strong set of terms of reference.

[5:25:08] Trustee Rogers: I just, so I guess, but you're right.

[5:25:11] Trustee Rogers: I would imagine that what we would get from the consultants tomorrow

[5:25:19] Trustee Rogers: and then the other research we did, like the NIMO,

[5:25:23] Trustee Rogers: somebody mentioned the NIMO, I don't know who that was.

[5:25:25] Trustee Rogers: And I'm sure there's lots of governance committees around

[5:25:27] Trustee Rogers: about terms of reference that are more developed

[5:25:30] Trustee Rogers: and i'm not being critical of them i think most of the experience from the our consultants is

[5:25:36] Trustee Rogers: federal but from the provincial level of what works might be useful for this committee and that

[5:25:42] Trustee Rogers: i would imagine that work would go into a terms of reference for the longer term committee that

[5:25:48] Trustee Rogers: doesn't mean that the the interim committee might not set out a very short set of its own terms of

[5:25:54] Trustee Rogers: reference about how they're going to what they're expected to deliver i tried to capture that in my

[5:25:59] Trustee Rogers: first paragraph, but I understand that's very simplistic. I have no issues with whoever it is

[5:26:06] Trustee Rogers: that said, I think we've heard regional representation. I'm not sure what that means.

[5:26:11] Trustee Rogers: I guess that means Salt Springs, Southern Gulf Islands, Northern Islands. I don't know what it

[5:26:15] Trustee Rogers: means, actually. But I don't have a concern about that. I just don't know how you do it.

[5:26:22] Trustee Rogers: um so uh how do you divide it up i mean there's four trustees and how sound there's four one two

[5:26:32] Trustee Rogers: three four there's another eight in the north and then there's two on salt spring and ten on

[5:26:37] Trustee Rogers: the southern gulf island so i'm not sure how you divide that all up so

[5:26:42] Trustee Luckham: right um well thank you so

[5:26:46] Trustee Luckham: So just another, you know, thought, okay, because the conversation we've had in the last two hours was, if you're going to do this, what are you not going to do?

[5:26:59] Trustee Luckham: So if this committee is going to meet, what do you not want the CAO to do in order to support this committee?

[5:27:08] Trustee Luckham: So just let's think about that.

[5:27:13] Voice 32: Oh, sorry.

[5:27:16] Trustee Luckham: I apologize.

[5:27:17] Trustee Luckham: I missed your hand up.

[5:27:19] Trustee Luckham: I don't.

[5:27:19] Trustee Luckham: Oh, I did actually have you written down. Somehow I must have overpassed you. Sorry.

[5:27:25] Trustee Luckham: There you go. Over to you, Lee.

[5:27:27] Trustee Middleton: I'm not offended.

[5:27:29] Trustee Middleton: Well,

[5:27:29] Trustee Luckham: you could be offended. That's okay.

[5:27:31] Trustee Middleton: I'm a little offended.

[5:27:34] Trustee Middleton: So I think, Trustee Rogers, it's a good concept. I like it.

[5:27:41] Trustee Middleton: We heard, I think, from our consultant that a good optimal committee size,

[5:27:46] Trustee Middleton: reporting back to a group of this size would be seven to nine people which might address the

[5:27:51] Trustee Middleton: regional representation issue i can speak as the um the chair of the the select committee getting

[5:27:59] Trustee Middleton: everybody together was difficult a number of five i think you would not be always having optimal

[5:28:05] Trustee Middleton: well certainly optimal representation if that's going to be part of the the terms um so i would

[5:28:11] Trustee Middleton: suggest a larger number and i can say that uh our ceo and and um executive secretary ably supported

[5:28:20] Trustee Middleton: the um the select committee and i think would you know do a great job in in supporting this group

[5:28:26] Trustee Middleton: and i think i agree with uh trustee rogers praising that we basically can take on terms

[5:28:32] Trustee Middleton: of reference that will inform what will be written we then recommend the terms of reference for a

[5:28:38] Trustee Middleton: governance committee a permanent governance committee and that his terms there seem

[5:28:42] Trustee Middleton: perfectly adequate i would i would say that obviously there's one item that is like obviously

[5:28:49] Trustee Middleton: there's some confusion around and this is the idea of the secretary to council which is an

[5:28:54] Trustee Middleton: entirely separate function from a staff function it doesn't supersede um but there's some question

[5:28:59] Trustee Middleton: of the legality of that uh role and so there might need to be some kind of uh um budget for

[5:29:08] Trustee Middleton: opinion in that regard we heard from subhan dubai that his opinion is um that absolutely

[5:29:14] Trustee Middleton: there's scope but um i i don't know that's a maybe something for the committee the interim

[5:29:21] Trustee Middleton: committee to discuss as to whether or not they want to go down that road but um but generally

[5:29:25] Trustee Middleton: it sounds like a very practical motion

[5:29:28] Trustee Rogers: so let me can i if i could i'm sorry to interrupt i've been

[5:29:33] Trustee Rogers: been doing a lot of talking here is is um my concept would be the committee might say yeah

[5:29:40] Trustee Rogers: you know what we need a legal opinion on x this recommendation well the only people who can spend

[5:29:47] Trustee Rogers: money are trust council and executive committee those are the only ones that can authorize that

[5:29:52] Trustee Rogers: so you'd you'd make a decision about okay um or the cao i guess in certain circumstances so

[5:29:59] Trustee Rogers: So.

[5:30:00] Trustee Rogers: You would make a decision, we'll ask the executive committee to get an opinion about that.

[5:30:05] Trustee Rogers: Or you'd ask, if you wanted to take it to the trust council, you'd come to the trust council and say, look, we need an opinion about this.

[5:30:11] Trustee Rogers: And let's get them to authorize it.

[5:30:13] Trustee Rogers: Because the committee couldn't do it itself.

[5:30:16] Trustee Rogers: Anyway, and I sort of say, the one thing the CEO is not doing is he's not doing the select committee anymore.

[5:30:23] Trustee Rogers: But anyway, I appreciate that's a bit facetious.

[5:30:26] Trustee Rogers: But I know

[5:30:27] Voice 25: they've got a ton

[5:30:28] Trustee Rogers: of work on their table,

[5:30:29] Voice 25: and that's going to be an issue.

[5:30:30] Trustee Rogers: I appreciate that.

[5:30:39] Trustee Luckham: David Critchley.

[5:30:42] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[5:30:43] Trustee Critchley: Yeah, I support this idea.

[5:30:45] Trustee Critchley: Just commenting on a couple of things that have come up around the table.

[5:30:49] Trustee Critchley: On the size of it, I generally favor smaller committees because they work far more efficiently.

[5:30:56] Trustee Critchley: professionally but i think uh lee makes a good point that you know people aren't always available

[5:31:05] Trustee Critchley: and so the seven to nine that was mentioned by consultants i tend to favor the lower figure

[5:31:12] Trustee Critchley: just for efficiency sake and and for well yeah so i i would say seven rather than five

[5:31:19] Trustee Critchley: as to the idea of uh sort of regional i think that's an excellent idea but i wouldn't want

[5:31:25] Trustee Critchley: want to see it really built baked into the terms of reference or anything but i think it's something

[5:31:29] Trustee Critchley: that should inform our voting um you know when we're we're looking at the candidates and who

[5:31:36] Trustee Critchley: should who should fill this i think it would be a great idea to have regional representation i'm also

[5:31:42] Trustee Critchley: being made aware because of the select committee experience of you know gender participation which

[5:31:48] Trustee Critchley: which I'm usually blind to.

[5:31:53] Trustee Critchley: And I always rationalize it by saying,

[5:31:55] Trustee Critchley: because I don't see gender, you know,

[5:31:57] Trustee Critchley: I just see competent people.

[5:31:59] Trustee Critchley: But anyway, enough said.

[5:32:01] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[5:32:04] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[5:32:06] Trustee Luckham: Tim Peterson had his hand up for a bit here

[5:32:08] Trustee Luckham: and then Laura Beshakian.

[5:32:12] Voice 29: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[5:32:13] Voice 29: I just wanted to note that in the CEO's briefing

[5:32:19] Voice 29: on this suggestion that legal advice be sought to address

[5:32:25] Voice 29: at a minimum the relationship service agency

[5:32:29] Voice 29: and the election process for the executive committee

[5:32:33] Voice 29: and additional appointees to the trust council.

[5:32:35] Voice 29: So that to me suggests that we need to consider

[5:32:41] Voice 29: resourcing an ad hoc committee,

[5:32:43] Voice 29: at least to request that legal,

[5:32:46] Voice 29: those type of legal opinions.

[5:32:47] Voice 29: Yes,

[5:32:51] Voice 40: just

[5:32:54] Voice 9: to try and get this to be implementable, in terms of, I was just thinking about the regional representation, and that could be something that isn't, as Trustee Critchley said, in the terms of reference, but something that we simply agree to aim for.

[5:33:14] Voice 9: But I was just trying to think through how that would look. And if we were to go with seven members and one was from executive committee, then we could have one from Salt Spring, one from Howe Sound, two from the north, two from the south. I'm just trying to look at numbers of trustees. And that might be a roughly representational way of doing it.

[5:33:35] Voice 9: And then with gender, staunch feminist though I am, I wouldn't really want to see a quota.

[5:33:40] Voice 9: I think it's more just something to bear in mind and turn our minds to.

[5:33:47] Voice 9: Thank you.

[5:33:56] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[5:33:58] Trustee Luckham: We're out of the Northern office.

[5:34:00] Trustee Luckham: So let's...

[5:34:02] Trustee Luckham: Dan Rogers.

[5:34:04] Voice 25: Sorry, I don't

[5:34:05] Trustee Luckham: want to knock anybody out.

[5:34:06] Trustee Luckham: No.

[5:34:06] Trustee Luckham: Oh, I see.

[5:34:07] Trustee Luckham: Kate Louise Stanford.

[5:34:09] Trustee Luckham: Sorry, I didn't see her hand go up.

[5:34:11] Trustee Luckham: uh

[5:34:14] Voice 12: just for consideration that also the islands trust conservancy um participation

[5:34:20] Voice 12: given the glowing reviews we got in the report um we may have something to offer

[5:34:32] Trustee Luckham: okay um case longer ice

[5:34:37] Voice 38: yeah i wanted to say that i do support what lee was saying about

[5:34:42] Voice 38: the slightly larger committee because people do miss me people do miss meetings and it's better

[5:34:48] Voice 38: okay

[5:34:51] Voice 32: now

[5:35:04] Trustee Luckham: i see peter johnson's hand up on the on the screen there and you know i'm just going to

[5:35:09] Trustee Luckham: be honest here for a moment i keep hoping we're going to get to a decision i'm going to pass

[5:35:13] Trustee Luckham: to chairing over to Laura Patrick

[5:35:14] Trustee Luckham: and I'm going to lose the room for a minute.

[5:35:16] Trustee Luckham: All

[5:35:21] Trustee Johnston: right, I guess Peter Johnson.

[5:35:24] Trustee Johnston: Thank you.

[5:35:25] Trustee Johnston: I wonder if this is an appropriate time

[5:35:28] Trustee Johnston: to ask for people to indicate

[5:35:29] Trustee Johnston: whether they would be willing

[5:35:31] Trustee Johnston: and like to serve on this committee.

[5:35:37] Voice 15: Well, I guess since I'm the temporary chair here,

[5:35:41] Voice 15: no, I think that, thank you.

[5:35:43] Voice 15: I think that's a good,

[5:35:44] Voice 15: I think this is just what we'd call a straw poll.

[5:35:47] Voice 15: This is not a commitment.

[5:35:49] Voice 15: It would just be raise your hand

[5:35:50] Voice 15: if this was a committee

[5:35:51] Voice 15: that you see yourself working on.

[5:35:54] Voice 15: So you can raise your hands digitally on screen

[5:35:57] Voice 15: or in the room, raise your hands, straw poll.

[5:36:06] Voice 15: Well, it's gonna be a very large committee,

[5:36:10] Voice 15: but that was just a straw poll.

[5:36:13] Voice 15: That's great to see.

[5:36:14] Voice 15: I think as we heard from the consultants,

[5:36:16] Voice 15: there's a great interest in seeing this work through.

[5:36:19] Voice 15: So that's what that showed.

[5:36:21] Voice 15: I see Alex Allen.

[5:36:30] Voice 16: Is this supposed to be the ones that are not

[5:36:32] Voice 16: on the previous committee that should be putting their hands up so i noticed some hands are from

[5:36:36] Voice 16: the committee before it

[5:36:38] Trustee Rogers: it's up to the trust council it was not my intention to exclude the

[5:36:44] Trustee Rogers: previous committee from this it's just it would be a different uh committee that that was not

[5:36:49] Trustee Rogers: my intention to exclude those members because that's what there's eight of you how many were

[5:36:54] Trustee Rogers: there nine anyway it was a large group it would be would take out a third of the trust council

[5:37:02] Trustee Rogers: thought we excluded them it

[5:37:05] Voice 38: was peter and i think eight uh

[5:37:17] Voice 19: dan thank you for putting this up on the

[5:37:19] Voice 19: on the on the screen i i think trying to move this along we have pretty much consensus we kind of

[5:37:25] Voice 19: agree that numbers round about seven this is the format we wish to follow and without doubt whether

[5:37:31] Voice 19: we provide a full or an interim report there's going to be some reporting back in june so so

[5:37:36] Voice 19: So not trying to wordsmith that.

[5:37:39] Voice 19: That's really where we're going.

[5:37:40] Voice 19: So if you like, the motion or the general understanding is on the table.

[5:37:47] Voice 19: So I wonder if we could kind of agree to that.

[5:37:50] Voice 19: Now, that leaves us outstanding who's going to sit on this committee.

[5:37:54] Voice 19: And that is something perhaps we could deliberate or cast ballots over maybe tomorrow, the day after.

[5:38:03] Voice 19: And we could just do it by a ballot process.

[5:38:04] Voice 19: just give people a chance to reflect they have the time whatever else and and because there seems to

[5:38:11] Voice 19: be more than eight people raise their hand so we're not looking at a empty table here so again

[5:38:19] Voice 19: in the spirit of moving as long maybe if we could get your your your whether you would if you care

[5:38:25] Voice 19: to be kind enough to incorporate and put this into a motion we could get that off the table

[5:38:29] Voice 19: leaving us to sort out who's going to sit on this this august group uh and uh and sort of

[5:38:37] Voice 19: with a view to try and uh just move to the next step here so

[5:38:42] Trustee Luckham: thank you michael and thank you for

[5:38:44] Trustee Luckham: advancing the conversation well done dan

[5:38:46] Trustee Rogers: rogers so um thank you uh i'm hearing sort of generic

[5:38:51] Trustee Rogers: support for this concept so that's good um i'm hearing um some views that it should be seven

[5:38:58] Trustee Rogers: instead of five uh i'm sort of a bit ambivalent i tend to prefer smaller groups because i think

[5:39:04] Trustee Rogers: they're more efficient but i hear trustee middleton's concern that people don't can't

[5:39:08] Trustee Rogers: come or can't show and therefore uh good or better have a bigger pool so i'm conscious of that so i'm

[5:39:15] Trustee Rogers: not really stuck on five um i think i should take the words executive secretary out because that's

[5:39:21] Trustee Rogers: really the cio's job to decide who who staffs the committee not mine so i think we should remove that

[5:39:28] Trustee Rogers: words um i intend to not i think it's too complicated to try and build in or bake in

[5:39:35] Trustee Rogers: regional representation but i could be wrong and i'm willing to take you know some direction on

[5:39:42] Trustee Rogers: that but other than that i would sort of i would prepare to move my motion and add the words

[5:39:48] Trustee Rogers: at the end uh proposed sorry the committee will will report back with an interim report in june

[5:39:58] Trustee Rogers: of 2022 and a proposed implementation plan no later than september 2022 trust council why don't

[5:40:06] Voice 40: you make that motion so

[5:40:07] Trustee Rogers: i'll move my eyes are getting bad how old am i getting uh i move that

[5:40:15] Trustee Rogers: that a short-term ad hoc governance review

[5:40:18] Trustee Rogers: implementation committee, that's a mouthful.

[5:40:20] Trustee Rogers: What's the acronym?

[5:40:21] Trustee Rogers: Governance review,

[5:40:23] Trustee Rogers: Greg B struck with a mandate to consider

[5:40:31] Trustee Rogers: and discuss the governance review report

[5:40:34] Trustee Rogers: and make recommendations to trust council

[5:40:37] Trustee Rogers: on implementation steps,

[5:40:40] Trustee Rogers: including prioritizing recommendations,

[5:40:43] Trustee Rogers: both in terms of what is doable in the short, medium, and long term, and in regards to importance.

[5:40:54] Trustee Rogers: And the committee will be composed of seven trustees, including one member of the executive appointed by the executive committee,

[5:41:08] Trustee Rogers: and six members elected from amongst current trustees in the normal fashion of nomination

[5:41:18] Trustee Rogers: and secret ballot. The committee will choose a chair that will not be the executive committee

[5:41:25] Trustee Rogers: representative. The CAO, take out the words, and executive secretary will be, sorry,

[5:41:33] Trustee Rogers: sorry, will be the staff resource

[5:41:37] Trustee Rogers: to the implementation committee.

[5:41:40] Trustee Rogers: The committee will report,

[5:41:42] Trustee Rogers: sorry, will provide an interim report

[5:41:46] Trustee Rogers: to the June 2022 Trust Council

[5:41:51] Trustee Rogers: and provide a proposed implementation plan

[5:41:59] Trustee Rogers: plan no later than the September 2022 trust counts.

[5:42:06] Trustee Luckham: It's a seconded by Jane Wolverton. Thank you.

[5:42:12] Voice 19: Michael Kael.

[5:42:14] Voice 19: Just as a very friendly point, I just wonder,

[5:42:17] Voice 19: would you consider where it says and make recommendations where it says

[5:42:23] Voice 19: prioritizing and recommendations full stop,

[5:42:27] Voice 19: and then just deleting both in terms of what is doable in the short,

[5:42:31] Voice 19: medium and the long terms just prioritize in order of importance so you don't get caught up as what

[5:42:37] Voice 19: is doable in the short medium and long term just just just take those words out so it just reads uh

[5:42:44] Voice 19: uh prioritizing recommendations uh in in with regards or in order of importance just to try

[5:42:53] Voice 19: and simplify the language would would you consider that fine with

[5:42:58] Trustee Rogers: me if everybody that that suits

[5:43:01] Trustee Rogers: seats and needs i was trying to give some context to it and but and before i finished my motion i

[5:43:05] Trustee Rogers: think i'm entirely conscious this is going to put a burden on probably parliament to run the election

[5:43:11] Trustee Rogers: sometime between now and i'm sorry no i'm in between now and thursday we have to elect these

[5:43:19] Trustee Rogers: people to this interim committee and uh so i'm conscious of that so i know that means having

[5:43:28] Trustee Rogers: having some form of a nomination.

[5:43:30] Trustee Rogers: We got to create carve out time for a nomination

[5:43:32] Trustee Rogers: and election, unless we only

[5:43:35] Trustee Rogers: get six people nominated.

[5:43:38] Voice 40: There'll be no debate.

[5:43:38] Voice 40: It would just be nominated.

[5:43:39] Voice 40: Yes.

[5:43:40] Voice 40: The nomination vote.

[5:43:41] Voice 25: Right.

[5:43:42] Trustee Luckham: So I think that's fine.

[5:43:45] Trustee Luckham: So therefore up on the screen, I'll get you in a second.

[5:43:48] Trustee Luckham: Up on the screen is the friendly amended motion,

[5:43:51] Trustee Luckham: not the chair's favorite way of doing things.

[5:43:53] Trustee Luckham: Well, it hasn't been seconded yet.

[5:43:55] Voice 32: No, it was seconded.

[5:43:56] Voice 32: people

[5:43:57] Trustee Luckham: are quite keen to move along and so then that's moved and seconded and so speakers

[5:44:04] Trustee Luckham: on the motion is paul brett would

[5:44:12] Voice 41: uh it be considered that we would also elect rather

[5:44:17] Voice 41: than appoint an appointed executive committee member could we not elect one member from the

[5:44:25] Voice 41: executive committee rather than have an appointment to follow through with the democratic process

[5:44:31] Voice 41: sense i

[5:44:32] Voice 25: sort of assumed we'd choose who would sit on that before about that's my my that's my

[5:44:41] Voice 25: intention okay

[5:44:44] Voice 41: well it's just a thought we have 26 deciding on six and we have four deciding on one

[5:44:50] Voice 41: so right i'm not sure i'm going to vote for this on that basis and

[5:45:02] Trustee Luckham: uh so okay so i'm going to

[5:45:04] Trustee Luckham: continue with the discussion any other questions come up and i'll put myself on the speaker's list

[5:45:08] Trustee Luckham: uh steve wright b middleton uh

[5:45:13] Voice 39: i don't want to be a stick in the mud and i and i i'm going to

[5:45:16] Voice 39: support this motion um in uh principle but i'm just wondering whether we could defer it until

[5:45:21] Voice 39: tomorrow morning i'm

[5:45:23] Trustee Luckham: sorry i can't

[5:45:23] Voice 39: hear you properly i'm just i support this motion in

[5:45:27] Voice 39: principle i'm just wondering we can defer it until tomorrow morning till we hear back from

[5:45:30] Voice 39: the consultants and understand the stuff that they've gotten there's some other considerations

[5:45:35] Voice 39: I think we should talk about before we go forward with this.

[5:45:41] Trustee Luckham: Fair enough.

[5:45:44] Trustee Luckham: Deb.

[5:45:46] Trustee Luckham: Deb Morrison.

[5:45:47] Trustee Luckham: There was somebody else.

[5:45:48] Trustee Luckham: Oh, Lee Middleton, sorry.

[5:45:49] Trustee Luckham: Lee Middleton and Sue Ellen Fast.

[5:45:53] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[5:45:54] Trustee Morrison: I can't remember what the way to phrase this is,

[5:45:58] Trustee Morrison: but I would like to either table or defer this motion

[5:46:01] Trustee Morrison: till tomorrow for the reasons that Steve just named,

[5:46:03] Trustee Morrison: because otherwise I will not support this motion.

[5:46:05] Trustee Morrison: I need to hear what the consultants have to say.

[5:46:11] Trustee Luckham: Okay, well, somebody is free to make a motion.

[5:46:14] Trustee Morrison: I just can't remember what the, is it defer table?

[5:46:17] Trustee Luckham: So it's defer the motion until we receive.

[5:46:22] Trustee Luckham: Okay,

[5:46:22] Trustee Morrison: I move that we defer this motion

[5:46:25] Trustee Morrison: until the receiving the consultant's feedback tomorrow.

[5:46:32] Trustee Luckham: Sure, there's some, if that doesn't show up,

[5:46:34] Trustee Luckham: of course that means it might be deferred forever,

[5:46:36] Trustee Luckham: but let's assume that that's gonna unfold in that way.

[5:46:40] Trustee Luckham: So now I have a motion to defer.

[5:46:42] Trustee Luckham: that's not debatable do i get a second seconded by steve wright so i'm going to call the vote

[5:46:48] Trustee Luckham: on the motion to defer all those in favor any opposed i'm

[5:46:55] Trustee Morrison: sorry no i'm in favor i just can't

[5:46:58] Trustee Morrison: get my hand up fast enough that was too quick okay

[5:47:01] Trustee Luckham: well that's fine i've assumed you were in

[5:47:02] Trustee Luckham: favor so i got uh two opposed i think it is an online i don't see any opposed or two opposed

[5:47:08] Trustee Luckham: post. And so that carries. Oh, three opposed. Sorry. So that carries. So that item is now

[5:47:13] Trustee Luckham: deferred until tomorrow. So at 5.14, I wonder, is there any further business today on this

[5:47:23] Trustee Luckham: governance discussion? I'm inclined to want to consider whether or not there's, out of the CEO's

[5:47:31] Trustee Luckham: briefing there's a there's a necessity for us to seek um advice on um uh the relationship between

[5:47:41] Trustee Luckham: the alice trust and the public service agency and uh the election process of the executive committee

[5:47:46] Trustee Luckham: if we want to advance that enough and cao has something to offer

[5:47:50] Voice 27: um well many of these

[5:47:53] Voice 27: recommendations need some thought and probably some more information behind the recommendation

[5:47:58] Voice 27: and i would thought the interim committee would be the group that's identifying those and asking

[5:48:05] Voice 27: for supplemental information and that's that sort of thing and i think and

[5:48:09] Voice 28: i think you could easily

[5:48:10] Voice 27: say you could give provide a budget legal budget you know right ten thousand dollars or twelve

[5:48:16] Voice 27: thousand dollars or something like that to be used to support their activities

[5:48:22] Voice 25: well

[5:48:24] Voice 27: you do that in the court between now and the end of the determination of the budget

[5:48:28] Voice 27: you could allocate some funds to um determining some of that stuff and use it if needed okay well

[5:48:35] Trustee Luckham: thank you for that that's what i was looking for but it does seem to me that this committee would

[5:48:38] Trustee Luckham: have would want to take on that responsibility to act in that way okay is there any other business

[5:48:45] Trustee Luckham: you'd like to conduct at this time okay so then with i'm just going to have a quick go hands here

[5:48:53] Trustee Luckham: I wasn't expecting to get this far along.

[5:48:57] Trustee Luckham: But we're going to go into our thing this evening.

[5:49:01] Trustee Luckham: We've got consent agenda items.

[5:49:03] Trustee Luckham: Perhaps if it's at your pleasure, we could use up our extra 15 minutes, I suspect, by looking at the consent agenda items,

[5:49:13] Trustee Luckham: which are in front of us at Section 6 and tomorrow's Agenda 4 Executive Committee.

[5:49:19] Trustee Luckham: committee, the executive committee work program, the strategic plan quarterly report, and trust

[5:49:23] Trustee Luckham: council's follow-up action list, it's recommended that they be received for information. Is there

[5:49:30] Trustee Luckham: any concerns about any one of those three items? Then I'm going to take it by general consent that

[5:49:38] Trustee Luckham: those three items be received for information. Now, I don't want to put the CAO under a lot

[5:49:44] Trustee Luckham: of pressure here, but the next item here, which is the chief administrator's officer's report,

[5:49:49] Trustee Luckham: work are you in a position to do that no okay that's fine um we

[5:49:55] Trustee Grove: just

[5:49:58] Trustee Luckham: did 6.1

[5:50:01] Trustee Luckham: yeah so um just quickly looking over things it seems to me there's a couple of decisions

[5:50:10] Trustee Luckham: there's a learning plan uh the consent agenda items for the local planning service i honestly

[5:50:15] Trustee Luckham: think maybe we're getting a little too far ahead of ourselves so i think if there's no further

[5:50:19] Trustee Luckham: the business today we just just best take advantage of the fact that we can uh get an

[5:50:24] Trustee Luckham: extra couple of minutes before we go for dinner

[5:50:25] Voice 32: yeah

[5:50:27] Trustee Luckham: so then i'm going to ask the trust council

[5:50:29] Trustee Luckham: recess oh and let's get some clarity on this evening's public town hall session what is the

[5:50:35] Trustee Luckham: expectation uh to attend electronically um and i'll just turn to laurie on that what's the

[5:50:45] Trustee Luckham: expectation for both dinner and the town hall uh delegation session at seven o'clock sure thank

[5:50:53] Voice 3: you trust council dinner served next door here it starts shortly and uh right now and and um

[5:51:02] Voice 3: with regards to the public comment delegation section we have the delegation starting first

[5:51:08] Voice 3: at seven o'clock and um public may attend here in person we'll have a mic up at the podium or

[5:51:13] Voice 3: and they can also attend electronically as is posted on the website with all that information

[5:51:19] Voice 3: right

[5:51:20] Trustee Luckham: and the expectation is that all trustees will be attending in this space

[5:51:24] Trustee Luckham: for the town hall and delegations

[5:51:26] Voice 3: yes i haven't heard otherwise yes right

[5:51:28] Trustee Luckham: so that was the question

[5:51:29] Trustee Luckham: the

[5:51:29] Voice 3: in-person are in person and i have the seven electronics on the side here okay so let us

[5:51:37] Trustee Luckham: recess and we'll reconvene at seven o'clock for town hall and delegations in town hall

[5:51:43] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, council. Well done. Thank you online.