North Pender Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, March 12, 2022

[0:00:15] Trustee Patrick: Good morning. If you're just joining us, I'm going to pause a couple moments while the system gets up and running, and then we'll open the meeting.

[0:00:44] Trustee Patrick: All right, it looks like it's stabilizing. You ready to go there, Trustee McConkie?

[0:00:53] Voice 9: Always ready. Thank you.

[0:00:55] Trustee Patrick: Good morning. I'd like to call this special meeting of the North Pender Island Local Trust Committee to order.

[0:01:01] Trustee Patrick: order. Not only do I always open every meeting by acknowledging how grateful we are to be

[0:01:09] Trustee Patrick: able to meet all across the traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, I also want to

[0:01:15] Trustee Patrick: acknowledge that we must all learn from each other. Chief Bill Williams commonly opens

[0:01:22] Trustee Patrick: many of our public webinars and learning sessions, and his words are deeply meaningful. He thanks

[0:01:29] Trustee Patrick: the creator and acknowledges the sacred relationships with land air water and resources

[0:01:35] Trustee Patrick: he acknowledges that we have people live in harmony with the environment most of all he

[0:01:39] Trustee Patrick: acknowledges that the people who are attending a gathering are should work in a spirit of respect

[0:01:45] Trustee Patrick: and tolerance for each other we have much to learn from his wise words this meeting is being

[0:01:52] Trustee Patrick: live streamed and recorded i'm laura patrick i'm elected on salt spring and chair of this

[0:01:57] Trustee Patrick: local trust committee. Today I'm joined by Trustee Ben McConkie. Trustee Deb Morrison

[0:02:05] Trustee Patrick: is very sad that she is not here today. She fully intended to be here, but due to some

[0:02:12] Trustee Patrick: travel mix-ups, not mix-ups on her part, she is in route traveling back today and will be

[0:02:19] Trustee Patrick: listening to this session as it is being recorded and sends her regrets. Together we make up your

[0:02:26] Trustee Patrick: your local trust committee meeting today is a community information meeting on the topic of

[0:02:30] Trustee Patrick: the land use bylaw review project we always want to hear from you please direct your emails to

[0:02:37] Trustee Patrick: south info at islandstrust.bc.ca and your trustees we're grateful for the ability to have these

[0:02:44] Trustee Patrick: meetings today we may have some technical difficulties we'll work as quickly as we can to

[0:02:47] Trustee Patrick: get over them um this is despite the fact that our several of our employees are coming from their

[0:02:55] Trustee Patrick: their homes. They have a right to a safe and respectful workplace. I'd like to introduce

[0:02:59] Trustee Patrick: who's here today. We have Robin Elchuk is working in the background to administer this meeting.

[0:03:04] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much, Robin, for being here. Jennifer Kachurka is the minute taker. Welcome,

[0:03:11] Trustee Patrick: Jennifer. Kim Stockdale, our island planner. Good morning, Kim. And Robert Kajima, regional

[0:03:16] Trustee Patrick: planning manager. Thank you all for being here on this Saturday. Trustee McConkie, we have an

[0:03:21] Trustee Patrick: agenda before us. Are there any additions or changes that need to be made to the agenda?

[0:03:24] Trustee Patrick: No,

[0:03:25] Trustee McConchie: Chair Patrick. I just had a question about how Trustee Morrison is going to be informed about the contents of the meeting. Is there a recording that she's going to be able to access? Because I know she had indicated that she's very, you know, sad and she's not able to attend today's meeting and she wanted to express that to the community.

[0:03:39] Trustee McConchie: So I'm wondering, is this being recorded for later for her?

[0:03:43] Trustee Patrick: Yes, it is.

[0:03:43] Trustee McConchie: Great. She just wanted to confirm that. Okay, thank you. Then I approve the agenda by, we can approve the agenda by general consent.

[0:03:49] Trustee McConchie: it yes

[0:03:49] Trustee Patrick: we can thank you all right so um there's really only one item on the agenda today and that

[0:03:56] Trustee Patrick: is this community information meeting i'm going to turn the floor over to our planner kim stockdale

[0:04:00] Trustee Patrick: who will give us a brief conversation and then it's your turn to ask questions and we'll be

[0:04:08] Trustee Patrick: trying to answer them so over to you kim thank

[0:04:12] Voice 5: you very much chair patrick and can i confirm

[0:04:15] Voice 5: confirm with everybody that you can see the slides? We

[0:04:19] Trustee Patrick: can also see your next slide so it's

[0:04:21] Trustee Patrick: not doing slide presentation. There we

[0:04:25] Voice 5: go. Okay thank you. So I'm just going to do a quick

[0:04:29] Voice 5: overview of the land use bylaw project. This project started a few years ago and it was based

[0:04:38] Voice 5: on updating the land use bylaw to implement policies in the OCP and there are a number

[0:04:45] Voice 5: of topic areas that this project includes and that's residential floor area, tourist commercial

[0:04:52] Voice 5: which is also known as C2 zoning, some marine shoreline regulation reviews, agricultural

[0:04:58] Voice 5: regulation amendments, industrial regulation amendments and minor and technical amendments.

[0:05:05] Voice 5: So I'm just going to go over some of the highlights of this project. It doesn't include all aspects of

[0:05:10] Voice 5: the project but these are the topics that we've received the most correspondence about and also

[0:05:17] Voice 5: questions um about so in terms of where this project currently um is at um we've had some

[0:05:25] Voice 5: early engagement with first nations we've also had a number of cims to date it has been referred out

[0:05:32] Voice 5: and there is a draft version of the land use bylaw regulations in a um a black line version

[0:05:39] Voice 5: on the project website as well as an accompanying OCP bylaw and the next steps is for the uh the

[0:05:47] Voice 5: LTC to finalize uh and staff to finalize the draft of the land use bylaw over the next few months

[0:05:54] Voice 5: the first item I just want to highlight is that currently um the rural residential zone the LTC

[0:06:04] Voice 5: see is considering to splitting it into two zones first magic lake and trincomalee areas will be

[0:06:11] Voice 5: rezoned to rural residential one and really there's only one major component that will change

[0:06:18] Voice 5: and that is the fact that the ltc is considering establishing a maximum floor area for the rural

[0:06:25] Voice 5: residential one zone so other than its name changing and the potential of adding a maximum

[0:06:31] Voice 5: floor area there are no other amendments proposed for this new rural residential one zone. All other

[0:06:41] Voice 5: properties that won't be zoned rural residential one will be rezoned to rural residential two

[0:06:48] Voice 5: and the two major changes there other than the name is that again the LTC is considering

[0:06:54] Voice 5: establishing a maximum floor area in the rural residential two zone and also adding agriculture

[0:06:59] Voice 5: culture as a primary permitted use. And this is an example of what the LTC is currently considering

[0:07:09] Voice 5: for maximum floor area. No final decisions have been made yet and the LTC is still in discussions

[0:07:18] Voice 5: if these maximums are what they'd like to include in the draft bylaw. And these would be applicable

[0:07:26] Voice 5: to the rural residential one and two zone, the rural zone, the rural comprehensive zones one

[0:07:33] Voice 5: and two, and also the agricultural zone. We've received quite a few comments about property

[0:07:39] Voice 5: owners concerned with legal non-conforming status and what happens if, for example, you have a house

[0:07:48] Voice 5: on a property that's less than one acre and your house is 3,000 square feet. And if this

[0:07:56] Voice 5: these regulations get adopted, the new regulation would be 2,500 square feet. Well, in order to

[0:08:03] Voice 5: address those legal non-conforming concerns of property owners, the LTC is considering adding

[0:08:09] Voice 5: in this clause. And essentially what it would mean is that if you have a house built prior to

[0:08:17] Voice 5: the adoption of the bylaw, you're able to keep that floor area at the time of the adoption of

[0:08:23] Voice 5: the bylaw as long as you don't increase it or put on an extension but if this house if you need to

[0:08:32] Voice 5: do internal renovations or if you have to reconstruct it you're able to do that as long

[0:08:37] Voice 5: as it's not exceeding that floor area at the time of adoption of this bylaw so if you go back to

[0:08:43] Voice 5: this if you have a house that's 3,000 square feet the new maximum is 2,500 square feet you're able

[0:08:51] Voice 5: to retain that 3 000 square feet home you couldn't although put on an addition say an extra 500 square

[0:08:57] Voice 5: feet without going through um the option of a development variance permit um so the ltc is um

[0:09:06] Voice 5: currently the draft bottle does include that clause another item is that currently the land

[0:09:13] Voice 5: use bylaw on bare land where there is no dwelling unit or cottage um the land use bylaw does not

[0:09:20] Voice 5: permit a property owner to put up a accessory building the only stipulation right now in the

[0:09:27] Voice 5: land use bylaws you're able to put up an accessory building but it has to be used as a temporary

[0:09:31] Voice 5: dwelling for you know that doesn't um satisfy most circumstances when somebody buys a land

[0:09:38] Voice 5: on north pender that's bare land sometimes you want to put a small shed or whatnot to hold some

[0:09:45] Voice 5: some of your construction, you know, if you're clearing the land and so forth, it's nice to have

[0:09:51] Voice 5: that one accessory building. So the LTC is considering adding this to the draft land use

[0:09:58] Voice 5: that would allow you to have one accessory building on bare land prior to the construction

[0:10:05] Voice 5: of a dwelling unit. And there are some regulations around this one accessory building. As we know,

[0:10:13] Voice 5: helicopters has certainly been a cause for concern for the community member for the community um of

[0:10:19] Voice 5: north pender and so the ltc is considering adding this amendment to the land use bylaw and that

[0:10:25] Voice 5: would prohibit the use of heliports and helipads other than for emergency evacuation use again as

[0:10:33] Voice 5: a point i want to make aeronautics is federal jurisdiction and so by including this new

[0:10:41] Voice 5: regulation on land use by law by law it still may not be enforceable because it is within federal

[0:10:47] Voice 5: jurisdiction but the ltc is considering adding in this as a prohibited use in every zone there's

[0:10:56] Voice 5: been lots of discussion around commercial two zoning and the mckinnon road properties

[0:11:02] Voice 5: the c2 zoning currently allows 55 commercial guest accommodation units

[0:11:08] Voice 5: on four properties on mckinnon road currently one property owner has come forward and it has

[0:11:15] Voice 5: reduced has agreed to reduce the density on their property there are three other properties that the

[0:11:21] Voice 5: ltc is in discussion with um in terms of potentially registering a section 219 comfort covenant and

[0:11:30] Voice 5: that would restrict any new development beyond the dead densities are currently built on the

[0:11:36] Voice 5: property until such time a water management plan is prepared to ensure that there is a sufficient

[0:11:45] Voice 5: quality and quantity of groundwater and that water management plan would also include

[0:11:53] Voice 5: recommendations to property owners for mitigation. So that's one option the LTC could consider.

[0:12:00] Voice 5: The other option is to just reduce the densities on those properties, and then property owners would have to go through the rezoning process. If they want additional densities, or the LTC also has the option just to retain the densities in the current bylaws it stands.

[0:12:19] Voice 5: And another item that the LTC has included in the draft bylaw is rezoning the majority of water surrounding North Pender from Water 1, and Water 1 currently permits the use of private docks for upland residential use.

[0:12:39] Voice 5: the majority of those that of that water area would be rezoned to water three and water three

[0:12:45] Voice 5: does not permit private docks those areas that currently have a private dock to date or have a

[0:12:52] Voice 5: an existing or in progress private dock license applications application with the province would

[0:12:59] Voice 5: retain the water one zoning so what that means is those property property owners that currently have

[0:13:05] Voice 5: a dock would retain the water one zoning as i mentioned the next steps of the project the ltc

[0:13:14] Voice 5: is still considering amendments to the draft bylaw at the march 24th ltc meeting a rough timeline for

[0:13:21] Voice 5: this project is the ltc will consider first reading potentially sometime this spring in

[0:13:27] Voice 5: hopes we can get formal referrals out to first nations and agencies uh in summer of 2022 and

[0:13:34] Voice 5: potentially a another community information meeting and then public hearing either sometime

[0:13:40] Voice 5: this summer or or later this fall. I'd always also like to say that all this information is available

[0:13:49] Voice 5: on the project website and you can see here that the folders have been changed a bit to help

[0:13:56] Voice 5: make it easier to find any information regarding this this project and if you have any questions

[0:14:02] Voice 5: feel free to email myself or southinfo at islandstrust.bc.ca and thank you so much I will

[0:14:11] Voice 5: give it back to you Chair Patrick.

[0:14:15] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much Kim there is a lot to in here what worked

[0:14:22] Trustee Patrick: really well in our last community information meeting and I'll look to Trustee McConkie was

[0:14:27] Trustee Patrick: that we had like three or four questions from you and then we answered them in batches and that

[0:14:34] Trustee Patrick: seem to to work well are you in agreement there trustee mcconkey saying yes so um what if that

[0:14:40] Trustee Patrick: for you it's your turn to ask us questions or comments so what i'll do is uh listen to a number

[0:14:46] Trustee Patrick: of them we'll we'll pause and then we'll discuss them in a in a group and then carry on um so this

[0:14:53] Trustee Patrick: is and although i do understand that we have some mckinnon road property people um kim that you'd

[0:14:59] Trustee Patrick: like to maybe open the floor on first as they were here. Um, do you see them in the, in the,

[0:15:09] Trustee Patrick: uh, attendee

[0:15:10] Voice 5: list? Bud Kerfoot has just raised his hand. There

[0:15:13] Trustee Patrick: you go. All right. Um, uh, Robin,

[0:15:16] Trustee Patrick: if we could let, uh, open up Bud's mic. Good morning, bud.

[0:15:23] Voice 12: Hello. Can you hear me? Yes.

[0:15:25] Voice 12: Awesome. Uh, right. First, here we go. All right. Um, okay. Um, thanks for the time here. Really

[0:15:33] Voice 12: really appreciate it. I think the first thing we want to start with is just thank Ben and Deb.

[0:15:37] Voice 12: They put in a lot of time coming to our property, taking the time to really actually hear our story

[0:15:42] Voice 12: and understand where we're at. So I think that's the first thing that I personally want to mention.

[0:15:48] Voice 12: Yeah, the second thing is just, you know, we understand this has been a long process,

[0:15:52] Voice 12: but there have been a lot of moving parts that have had changed throughout this process.

[0:15:56] Voice 12: You know, we're trying to understand and understand the best way forward. So again,

[0:16:00] Voice 12: we just wanted to highlight that we haven't even had this uh these properties for a year so again

[0:16:05] Voice 12: there's a lot of learning in this process as we've been going through it and we just want to thank

[0:16:09] Voice 12: you uh for the patience on that um just quickly highlighting on on us again i think it's just

[0:16:14] Voice 12: you know me my fiance um you know we're a family-run business um and our commitment to

[0:16:19] Voice 12: sustainability water conservation is our is a huge priority for us as we move this this property

[0:16:26] Voice 12: forward. We're not a big, we're not a big player. We want a slow and small impact development as we

[0:16:31] Voice 12: go. And I think, yeah, that is a really important piece for us to highlight. And the second piece,

[0:16:36] Voice 12: I know there was a lot of discussion about, you know, what if we sell it? You know, we are here

[0:16:41] Voice 12: for the long run. We are, we, this is our, our dream. This is our dream place to be. We're very

[0:16:47] Voice 12: happy. And this is what we want to do. So, so that's kind of what I want to highlight there.

[0:16:52] Voice 12: The next is we've had some time to research the DPA process, which we're happy that exists, you know, being a commercial property, you know, which is great because the trustees do get the opportunity to put their stamp on our development and how we're building, you know, what it looks like and all those things that come with that.

[0:17:09] Voice 12: And so we do want to highlight that that is a really good process that exists currently on any commercial development plan that goes forward.

[0:17:17] Voice 12: The next piece is just the covenant.

[0:17:19] Voice 12: So, this has been, we just got these documents, what the covenant looks like, you know, a couple days ago.

[0:17:25] Voice 12: So, we've had some time to process, but not that much time.

[0:17:29] Voice 12: What we understand right now is there's four bodies that currently touch water.

[0:17:33] Voice 12: The provincial government, I understand that they're still working on their program, but they do require a new license for us.

[0:17:40] Voice 12: If we do want to increase unit, increase usage or units, it has to be approved by the provincial government to be able to expand our development,

[0:17:48] Voice 12: which is um you know i just want to touch that because i think that is a really important piece

[0:17:52] Voice 12: that we we are going to be having to go to provincial government to do any sort of any

[0:17:57] Voice 12: sort of development based on groundwater potential um i think also touching on the covenant is you

[0:18:02] Voice 12: know like you know we the trustees right now ben and deb have been awesome they've been open

[0:18:06] Voice 12: they've been involved in the process um you know we're worried about a little the interpretation

[0:18:11] Voice 12: in the covenant with different trustees opinions will change on how the island should go forward

[0:18:15] Voice 12: again so that that is you know i just we want to bring that forward you know because that is a you

[0:18:20] Voice 12: know and where we're at with understanding the covenant was something that was on the table for

[0:18:24] Voice 12: us and again we wanted to highlight that so yeah those are kind of some of the big points and i we

[0:18:30] Voice 12: did want to talk about going forward and uh ben and and deb and laura this is you know kind of

[0:18:34] Voice 12: what we're thinking as we as we grow and again um so i just wanted to put this forward you know

[0:18:41] Voice 12: after looking through this we know realistically we have two options um and from the beginning we

[0:18:45] Voice 12: wanted a win-win um and that was extremely important to us and you know we gathered that

[0:18:49] Voice 12: was the same from the trustees and we really appreciate that because because you've you've

[0:18:54] Voice 12: worked with us and we do appreciate that um and we wanted to come back to density um density was

[0:18:59] Voice 12: the beginning discussion point and um you have to understand that we have never been through this

[0:19:04] Voice 12: process with the islands trust so we didn't know what a covenant was all of a sudden that was on

[0:19:07] Voice 12: the table um and you know like this is these are huge decisions for us trying to figure out and

[0:19:12] Voice 12: um you know realistically this is this is our life right and we're trying to to navigate this

[0:19:18] Voice 12: the best way possible um but i did want to put forward what we're prepared to to um to do here

[0:19:23] Voice 12: um so we are prepared to put forward a substantial reduction in density that we think will appease

[0:19:29] Voice 12: all sides um and a big point i want to make is prevent a major development company to come in

[0:19:35] Voice 12: they could easily throw money at a water program you know and then you have 26 and 10 units on the

[0:19:42] Voice 12: the property um we're willing to go smaller and still invest in the water management program and

[0:19:47] Voice 12: this is a huge decision for us because we bought this property with 26 units we bought 1333 with 10

[0:19:53] Voice 12: right and then that you know who wouldn't want to hold what they bought at the end of the day right

[0:19:58] Voice 12: and i do want to highlight that but we are willing to reduce some density so i do want to put this

[0:20:02] Voice 12: forward to ben and laura and deb um you know at 1329 26 units are currently on property reducing

[0:20:09] Voice 12: reducing that to 15 at 1333 there's 10 units on the property reducing that to five that total

[0:20:16] Voice 12: would be 16 units removed potential units removed from mckinnon road um to us you know to the

[0:20:22] Voice 12: neighborhood um we feel that is a major win we're happy with that we can work within that no problem

[0:20:29] Voice 12: um and again this in this you know we would like to agree to no covenant um you know we're still

[0:20:36] Voice 12: to be managed by provincial government on our water on our water usage in the process we still

[0:20:41] Voice 12: have to deal with island health we still have to deal with crd um to do it to do anything and we

[0:20:46] Voice 12: still have to go to dpa with the island stress so we feel like there's already you know many many

[0:20:51] Voice 12: things for us to even break ground there um you know so that was what we wanted to put on the

[0:20:56] Voice 12: table um and then i guess if that doesn't isn't accepted i guess you know covenant stays density

[0:21:02] Voice 12: these days with what is currently stated with the trust um so again i know it's a lot to unpack

[0:21:08] Voice 12: there but it's been a lot to unpack for us and like i said i just want to state for me brooke

[0:21:13] Voice 12: and my family leslie you know we are good people we're here to develop that property you know in

[0:21:19] Voice 12: the right way we're not we're not like the fairmont or you know you know a big resort company coming

[0:21:24] Voice 12: in and wrecking the land and over developing it that's not our intention our intention is to do

[0:21:29] Voice 12: it sustainably we're here for the long run um and we care so i'd again uh thank you for your time

[0:21:36] Voice 12: and allowing me allowing us to speak on this major um decision that's being made on our property so

[0:21:41] Voice 12: thank you i

[0:21:42] Trustee Patrick: really appreciate um you being here today um bud and uh sharing um all the work that

[0:21:49] Trustee Patrick: you've been putting and contemplating and joining uh the the local trustees and in um finding a

[0:21:56] Trustee Patrick: solution that works for everyone. And I really appreciate that very much.

[0:21:59] Voice 12: Thank you. It's been a

[0:22:01] Voice 12: lot. So the property has been a lot of work by itself. But now with this on top, it's a lot when

[0:22:06] Voice 12: you're thinking of your future. So again, I thank you for everything.

[0:22:09] Trustee McConchie: Thank you. Yeah. Can I just

[0:22:11] Trustee McConchie: make a quick comment? Yes.

[0:22:13] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, Bud, that's great. Thank you so much for speaking today.

[0:22:17] Trustee McConchie: In particular, it's refreshing to have someone move to the community that's new here, that wants

[0:22:24] Trustee McConchie: wants to work within our democratic processes,

[0:22:26] Trustee McConchie: respect the official community plan,

[0:22:28] Trustee McConchie: and work rather than just force your development

[0:22:32] Trustee McConchie: onto the community.

[0:22:34] Trustee McConchie: I really appreciate hearing your thoughts.

[0:22:36] Trustee McConchie: This sounds like maybe the planners

[0:22:39] Trustee McConchie: and the LTC can go back to discussion now

[0:22:43] Trustee McConchie: based on what you guys have proposed

[0:22:45] Trustee McConchie: and have a discussion amongst ourselves

[0:22:47] Trustee McConchie: and get some further thoughts

[0:22:50] Trustee McConchie: and then maybe perhaps be in touch with you guys

[0:22:52] Trustee McConchie: sooner rather than later maybe in the next couple weeks before the march 24th meeting does that sound

[0:22:56] Trustee McConchie: good staff and

[0:22:58] Voice 12: that sounds great yeah that's that's couldn't ask for a better way to do it so

[0:23:02] Voice 12: okay

[0:23:02] Trustee McConchie: thanks very much bud for coming and speaking uh today thank you

[0:23:05] Trustee Patrick: great um kim is there another

[0:23:08] Trustee Patrick: person from yes

[0:23:10] Voice 5: paula has her hand up that is paula

[0:23:13] Trustee Patrick: all right so robin if we could open paula's

[0:23:16] Trustee Patrick: mike

[0:23:19] Voice 16: hi good morning um nice to meet you all and thanks bud that was that was really insightful

[0:23:25] Voice 16: hearing what your plan is um for us as well it's been you know we've owned the property for less

[0:23:30] Voice 16: than a year so it's been a bit of a whirlwind understanding um what all of this means uh we

[0:23:37] Voice 16: don't have a as solid of a plan as bud does but of course uh we we're we're uh we're moving very

[0:23:42] Voice 16: slow. We also don't want to see these properties develop to their full capacity. That's not how

[0:23:49] Voice 16: we'd ever want to enjoy it. We want to work with the committee as well and perhaps even look towards

[0:23:56] Voice 16: building some sort of legacy project with all of you in case there was anything you want to,

[0:24:01] Voice 16: new technologies that are better for the environment. But we're wanting to move slow,

[0:24:08] Voice 16: So we don't have a lot of plans, but I do like that small reduction in the density.

[0:24:13] Voice 16: I don't foresee, I haven't spoken to my partner, he's away, but I don't foresee that being

[0:24:18] Voice 16: a problem for us either.

[0:24:20] Voice 16: That's something we've both always discussed, that we would never want to see 10 dwellings

[0:24:24] Voice 16: on the property anyway.

[0:24:26] Voice 16: So there's definitely space for it, but it's not how we want to enjoy it.

[0:24:31] Voice 16: And I don't think the community would either.

[0:24:33] Voice 16: That's about all I have to say for now, but hopefully have something more clear for

[0:24:37] Voice 16: for you all for the next meeting any questions for

[0:24:42] Trustee Patrick: me all right thank you paula are there any

[0:24:45] Trustee Patrick: questions for paula no

[0:24:47] Trustee McConchie: it probably just sounds like it'd be really because i know trustee morrison

[0:24:51] Trustee McConchie: has uh invested in wanting to get involved in pilot projects for environmental conservation

[0:24:56] Trustee McConchie: and related to tourism um so i'm curious to know if uh you guys need to get in contact and maybe

[0:25:04] Trustee McConchie: discuss uh uh future plans because that'd

[0:25:07] Voice 16: be amazing yeah

[0:25:09] Trustee McConchie: so but you are but just that what

[0:25:11] Trustee McConchie: yeah i just want to clarify that you are uh open to the idea of a reduction in density on your

[0:25:17] Trustee McConchie: property that's the kind of message yes

[0:25:19] Voice 16: we are the the one and i don't know if this is the right

[0:25:21] Voice 16: place to bring it up but there's no real uh house on the property and that's that's something that's

[0:25:27] Voice 16: important to us to bring a house there because um um our my partner they've retired just this

[0:25:33] Voice 16: year and they're wanting to sort of live more on the property and we will at one point as well so

[0:25:38] Voice 16: that would be the only that's really the the missing piece to us at this point and um and

[0:25:44] Voice 16: then just not reducing the value of the property because that all of our lending and all of our

[0:25:49] Voice 16: reinvesting in in the property is going to come from the value and what the banks have approved

[0:25:53] Voice 16: us for i know that doesn't fall so much on your lap but it it's a it's a major point for us it

[0:25:58] Voice 16: isn't about over developing the property it's just about ensuring that we don't lose the the asset

[0:26:03] Voice 16: at value.

[0:26:06] Trustee Patrick: Thank you. Well, thank you. And more conversations to come. And thank you for sharing

[0:26:10] Trustee Patrick: that today. Kim, was there anyone else for McKinnon Road? That's the main voices. So I

[0:26:17] Trustee Patrick: want to appreciate both of you for being here today and working with the committee to find

[0:26:21] Trustee Patrick: good solutions for the island. So thank you. Okay. With that, then I'm going to open up the

[0:26:27] Trustee Patrick: floors now for general comments. We'll take like two or three at a time and then respond to them.

[0:26:33] Trustee Patrick: so I see the next hand up is Karen Bell good morning

[0:26:40] Trustee Patrick: good morning thank

[0:26:42] Voice 14: you I have three

[0:26:43] Voice 14: points I want to question or get clarification on from what Kim shared with us this morning

[0:26:49] Voice 14: with respect to lot coverage I'm happy to see for under an acre the 2,500 square foot number

[0:26:58] Voice 14: up from some of the other numbers tossed about a little while ago my one question is does that

[0:27:04] Voice 14: pertain to the main dwelling home you know residential home or does that also include

[0:27:12] Voice 14: accessory buildings such as pump houses wood sheds greenhouses and then there would be an add-on

[0:27:21] Voice 14: there was discussion early in the process about impervious surfaces being included and would that

[0:27:29] Voice 14: include impervious surfaces my understanding was we haven't gone that far but just want to be clear

[0:27:35] Voice 14: and what what the discussion is at this point of the ambit of it okay

[0:27:40] Trustee Patrick: we're going to collect um

[0:27:41] Trustee Patrick: karen if you could just give me all your questions and we're going to group them and then take two

[0:27:45] Trustee Patrick: or three and then respond to them if that helps so keep going with

[0:27:48] Trustee Patrick: your questions okay

[0:27:49] Voice 14: on the next

[0:27:50] Voice 14: point about vacant lots and the ability to put an accessory building on before construction

[0:27:55] Voice 14: we have a vacant lot adjacent to us and we'd like to put such a structure on for whether it's tools

[0:28:02] Voice 14: or storage or some small use that's permitted.

[0:28:08] Voice 14: But we don't anticipate or expect to do any construction.

[0:28:11] Voice 14: Is it premised on a plan for construction?

[0:28:14] Voice 14: Because it was not clear from what Kim said.

[0:28:19] Voice 14: Is there any reason why you can't have

[0:28:21] Voice 14: a small accessory building on a vacant lot

[0:28:24] Voice 14: if you're not gonna have construction of another building?

[0:28:27] Voice 14: And then finally, this is really more of a comment

[0:28:30] Voice 14: on the helicopter issue.

[0:28:32] Voice 14: issue. Kim made the point well it really is the jurisdiction of others and so I'm not sure it's

[0:28:38] Voice 14: enforceable. My point would be why the heck would we spend money on something that's not in our

[0:28:43] Voice 14: jurisdiction when we have so many issues to cover and related to that the comment was made there's

[0:28:49] Voice 14: a concern on North Pender about helicopters. I would say as someone who lives up at the north

[0:28:55] Voice 14: end of North Pender and has to deal with 10 helicopters a day flying over for commercial

[0:29:00] Voice 14: use from Vancouver, hospital use, safety and rescue use. I find it bizarre that we're dealing

[0:29:12] Voice 14: with this issue because we've got a whole world of helicopters well beyond our control.

[0:29:16] Voice 14: And secondly, what are the numbers? Because has someone done a poll? I know there's some very

[0:29:23] Voice 14: loud voices, but I don't know that there are many. So I, as a North Penderite, not that I'm a fan of

[0:29:29] Voice 14: helicopters but I'm a person who is looking at that situation as being very unfair at the moment

[0:29:36] Voice 14: and I want to be clear about how are we judging this as an issue you know I like to go by our

[0:29:44] Voice 14: usual rules of majority rule so that was my sort of comment inquiry and those are my points and

[0:29:50] Voice 14: thank you I appreciate the staff taking time on Saturday to educate us.

[0:29:56] Trustee Patrick: Thank you Karen and we'll

[0:29:58] Trustee Patrick: We'll respond to your questions.

[0:30:00] Trustee Patrick: questions in just a just a moment so we're going to take take the next uh sandra traitic

[0:30:09] Voice 15: hi there good morning good

[0:30:11] Trustee Patrick: morning can

[0:30:12] Voice 15: you hear me okay yes thanks again for having this meeting

[0:30:17] Voice 15: on a saturday morning um i just have a couple questions and you know my i'm a bit of a one horse

[0:30:23] Voice 15: i have a focus on one issue which is the doc issue and i wanted to thank the trustees for

[0:30:31] Voice 15: agreeing to include the in-stream applications in the maintaining the W-1 zoning. But I'm still,

[0:30:39] Voice 15: I'm not clear, I guess like I'm a bit new to this whole process myself, so I'm not clear what is the

[0:30:46] Voice 15: driver for the change from W-1 to W-3 rezoning and why not considering DPAs. I'm just concerned like

[0:30:57] Voice 15: a one-size-fits-all approach. Not all areas around North Pender are suitable for docks for

[0:31:06] Voice 15: various reasons, whether it's weather conditions, steep shorelines, too deep, eelgrass beds,

[0:31:16] Voice 15: all sorts of things. There's all sorts of reasons why docks couldn't be built in a whole number of

[0:31:20] Voice 15: of places and my other concern is that this process is kind of circumventing the OCP the

[0:31:28] Voice 15: current OCP like Ben just recently said respect the OCP and the current OCP has the one area

[0:31:37] Voice 15: DPA area along the waterfront for the intertidal zones I believe it is where there it talks about

[0:31:46] Voice 15: docks but there's nowhere else in the OCP that even mentions docks or banning docks or

[0:31:51] Voice 15: the need to rezone to prevent new docks. My feeling about the Gulf Islands in general is that

[0:32:02] Voice 15: you know this is a boating paradise and a marine lovers environment and docks are just kind of part

[0:32:08] Voice 15: of that whole environment and docks that are built today are built to a higher standard than

[0:32:20] Voice 15: docks that were built in the past and I know there was concern in the past about derelict or concern

[0:32:26] Voice 15: present but part of that what was driving some of the marine shoreline discussion paper was

[0:32:32] Voice 15: the derelict docks and the maintenance of docks and that sort of thing and I know that the having

[0:32:38] Voice 15: having just gone through the application process we're still in the middle of the application

[0:32:41] Voice 15: process the we're in a special permission area um only i believe it's only hornby denman and

[0:32:52] Voice 15: mesquite in the islands trust that are not in the special permit application area and i've

[0:32:59] Voice 15: heard some of the staff actually say things to the contrary both at the um meeting last week

[0:33:11] Voice 15: or this week i can't remember my dates anymore um the about the policy statement there was talk

[0:33:17] Voice 15: about um that most of the islands in the trust area there's very little requirement to get a

[0:33:24] Voice 15: doc and that's not true and i'm just concerned that um where what's driving this change and um

[0:33:32] Voice 15: and my last one i have a couple of points if you'll bear with me please

[0:33:36] Trustee Patrick: continue i

[0:33:38] Voice 15: um

[0:33:40] Voice 15: listening to the discussions last at the last community information session i was quite taken

[0:33:46] Voice 15: with the fact that um the islands trust sent letters or the trustees requested that the islands

[0:33:53] Voice 15: trust staff send letters to the c2 property owners to get their feedback on the proposed changes to

[0:34:03] Voice 15: the reduction in the number of units that would be allowed on those properties and i'm just wondering

[0:34:10] Voice 15: if we should all you should also be considering sending letters to all of the waterfront property

[0:34:16] Voice 15: owners around pender and and their neighbors and asking the same questions like do you propose

[0:34:22] Voice 15: these sorts of changes and what do you suggest because i'm concerned that there's still probably

[0:34:27] Voice 15: a lot of people out there who aren't even aware that this process is undergoing and how they

[0:34:32] Voice 15: these changes could impact their property values and as karen bell said um i'm sorry not karen bell

[0:34:41] Voice 15: it was one of the other ladies who spoke this morning was talking about the the value of their

[0:34:47] Voice 15: property and they don't want to lose their asset value so I mean people buy waterfront on pender

[0:34:54] Voice 15: people who have bought waterfront on pender up to this time have had that potential option of

[0:35:00] Voice 15: building a dock and that's factored into the asset value and just on a couple other I'll change the

[0:35:10] Voice 15: subject on a couple other issues I was in support of what Karen Bell said about helicopters and

[0:35:16] Voice 15: And I believe there was some talk also about increasing cottage sizes, similar to what South Pender is doing, and I would be in support of that as well.

[0:35:25] Voice 15: That's it. Thanks for listening.

[0:35:28] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much for asking, and we'll get to your comments back there in just a moment.

[0:35:32] Trustee Patrick: So we'll take another person. I think the next one is Jeff Green. Good morning, Jeff.

[0:35:43] Voice 2: Good morning. Can you hear me?

[0:35:44] Trustee Patrick: Yes, we can.

[0:35:45] Trustee Patrick: Great.

[0:35:46] Voice 2: Yeah, I have a similar question to one of the earlier ones just about the speaker talk to total house area as opposed to total footprint on the property.

[0:35:58] Voice 2: So if we can have clarification on that. A couple of questions around that.

[0:36:03] Voice 2: Why is North Pender adopting a different square footage limit and approach than South Pender?

[0:36:09] Voice 2: um it seems to me we're kind of an interlinked community and um i'm curious as to why um south

[0:36:16] Voice 2: pender has gone with a square foot for the house as opposed to all structures um my second point

[0:36:23] Voice 2: and and really the square footage limit doesn't affect me um because i'm in a 47 year old prop

[0:36:32] Voice 2: it's a 14 150 square foot house 600 square foot garage a 90 foot shed and a driveway and walkways

[0:36:41] Voice 2: which most of that was here when we bought and and that's well over the 2500 square foot limit

[0:36:48] Voice 2: for a lot under 0.4 acres and we're one of the smallest houses in the Trincomalee area

[0:36:53] Voice 2: and so I'm really curious and I asked this question last time where did this 2500 total

[0:37:01] Voice 2: square feet for the entire property come from and why are we going to that limit it seems to me

[0:37:08] Voice 2: were being a little draconian i'll just put it that way because um many other people have three

[0:37:15] Voice 2: or four thousand square feet of total coverage on their property um i've also sent an email to deb

[0:37:23] Voice 2: and and ben on this already but um last at the last meeting we spoke about this being

[0:37:29] Voice 2: a primarily uh a policy to increase surface water absorption and groundwater recharge or at least

[0:37:37] Voice 2: maintain it where it is now. And I support that. I'm not against that at all. So I'm mystified why

[0:37:44] Voice 2: a multi-story house, again, doesn't affect me. I'm a single story house. Why are we treating

[0:37:50] Voice 2: multi-story houses as if the three floors all affect permeability? They don't. So a basement,

[0:37:56] Voice 2: a main floor and an upper floor is actually a better structure type than my type of house,

[0:38:02] Voice 2: which happens to be on a slab.

[0:38:05] Voice 2: And my last thing is that I asked last time

[0:38:09] Voice 2: if ground water permeability, or sorry,

[0:38:13] Voice 2: impermeable ground coverings had been defined.

[0:38:16] Voice 2: And I think this is really important

[0:38:17] Voice 2: because without it, you know,

[0:38:20] Voice 2: I'm thinking of putting in a flagstone patio.

[0:38:24] Voice 2: Is that permeable or impermeable?

[0:38:26] Voice 2: So thank you.

[0:38:28] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much, Jeff.

[0:38:32] Trustee Patrick: Trustee McConkie, take one more,

[0:38:33] Trustee Patrick: or is this enough to answer for now

[0:38:35] Trustee McConchie: there's some really smart people there that's a lot of comments

[0:38:38] Trustee McConchie: i'm wondering not overload our planners and get right to karen sandra jeff's questions all right

[0:38:44] Trustee Patrick: we'll pause and uh answer some questions uh kim did you want to take a first go or robert robert

[0:38:52] Trustee Patrick: yes

[0:38:53] Voice 5: yeah no i'm here sorry i was just i was loading up the um the draft bylaw to have in

[0:38:58] Voice 5: front of us while i i answer some of these questions so just bear with me for one moment

[0:39:02] Voice 5: please. Take

[0:39:04] Trustee Patrick: your time and those of you who already asked questions if you could just put

[0:39:12] Trustee Patrick: your hand down if you're if you're if you're done I'd like to try to get through first speakers if

[0:39:17] Trustee Patrick: we can and then return to second speakers.

[0:39:22] Voice 5: So this has come up quite a bit the discussion or

[0:39:27] Voice 5: what's the difference between what we're seeing right now which is it says the floor area of a

[0:39:33] Voice 5: a dwelling versus the total maximum floor area of all dwellings and structures on a property.

[0:39:41] Voice 5: So currently the LTC is still in discussions on if the draft bylaw should include a total

[0:39:49] Voice 5: maximum floor area for all structures and all dwellings on a lot. Currently the draft bylaw

[0:39:57] Voice 5: only includes a maximum floor area regulation new maximum floor area area regulation for a dwelling

[0:40:04] Voice 5: so what we're looking at here is for a property less than one acre less than 0.4 hectares the

[0:40:11] Voice 5: maximum floor area of a dwelling is 2500 square feet so that what that means is your house

[0:40:17] Voice 5: and an attached garage um the maximum floor area for that for that building is 2500 square feet

[0:40:27] Voice 5: it doesn't include detached accessory buildings it does not include detached garages this 2500

[0:40:33] Voice 5: square feet is only the maximum floor area of that dwelling unit and if it has an attached

[0:40:39] Voice 5: garage. In terms of the question around impervious services, the LTC is considering adding a

[0:40:48] Voice 5: definition to the bylaw to add clarity of what would be included in that and not. So look for

[0:40:57] Voice 5: that definition in the staff report coming to the March 24th LTC meeting. And the LTC is including

[0:41:05] Voice 5: including impervious surfaces in the calculation of lot coverage, so that's when impervious surfaces come into play it's when you're looking at a lot coverage, not necessarily maximum floor area.

[0:41:21] Voice 5: There was also a question around vacant lots and having one accessory structure on a vacant lot.

[0:41:29] Voice 5: it's not tied to construction whatsoever so you don't need to have a building permit

[0:41:36] Voice 5: for a dwelling unit for your one accessory building as long as your one accessory building

[0:41:43] Voice 5: is within those regulations that I showed before I think it's a maximum of 100 square feet

[0:41:49] Voice 5: has to be one story and can't be over a 4.6 meters in height I think that was most of the

[0:42:01] Voice 5: questions. One other item was Sandra, she had a question about docs and what's the difference

[0:42:10] Voice 5: between the LTC using a development permit area versus the rezoning application. One of the major

[0:42:18] Voice 5: differences in those two processes is the rezoning application allows a process of public comment

[0:42:27] Voice 5: And there's also a requirement for a public hearing. So there is requirements also for comments to be received from agencies, First Nations, community members. The LCT also has the ability to ask for further information through a rezoning process, whereas the DPA process is quite limited in scope.

[0:42:48] Voice 5: scope. There's no community input. There's no First Nation engagement. And as long as the proposal meets the guidelines, the LTC must approve the DP. I think those are the major points, unless Robert wants to mention anything or if the LTC has any further questions.

[0:43:10] Voice 5: yeah

[0:43:11] Voice 13: um i made a few notes as well kim thanks so maybe i'll probably cover the same things as you

[0:43:16] Voice 13: did but um so one thing for people to keep in mind is the difference between lot coverage and floor

[0:43:21] Voice 13: area so lot coverage as the term suggests is that is the area of the lot that's covered by buildings

[0:43:28] Voice 13: and structures and that would be when you're looking at something in what's called plan view

[0:43:31] Voice 13: which is like looking from above um and versus floor area which is the area of the building and

[0:43:38] Voice 13: in this case the draft bylaws only looking at the area of um the dwelling the principal dwelling

[0:43:45] Voice 13: it's the it's the total area inside the building so you know you could have a three-story building

[0:43:52] Voice 13: and that building's lot coverage is a thousand square feet but if it's three stories that would

[0:43:56] Voice 13: be a three thousand square feet of floor area it's using that example so there's just to distinguish

[0:44:02] Voice 13: between lot coverage and floor and that's why you still see in the in the draft there's a lot

[0:44:06] Voice 13: coverage regulation and then there's floor area regulations um karen asked about the helicopter

[0:44:13] Voice 13: and um why why is the ltc spending money if it's not jurisdiction ltc's already spent money on a

[0:44:20] Voice 13: legal opinion um and i mean adding a adding a prohibition to the bylaw doesn't cost any more

[0:44:26] Voice 13: money um sort of from i guess the one sort of thing we could point to to say why include a

[0:44:33] Voice 13: prohibition is that things could change in the future the courts could have a different

[0:44:38] Voice 13: interpretation of jurisdiction um case law evolves over time and changes um at this point

[0:44:45] Voice 13: the supreme court of canada said no it's federal jurisdiction helicopters um but there was a

[0:44:51] Voice 13: minority um minority opinion expressed by one of the supreme court judges that

[0:44:58] Voice 13: that sort of suggested the local governments

[0:45:01] Voice 13: should have some sort of say in aeronautics.

[0:45:06] Voice 13: And so things could change over time in the future,

[0:45:09] Voice 13: or they could be changed to the federal regulations,

[0:45:13] Voice 13: legislation that does sort of delegate some authority

[0:45:15] Voice 13: or input to local governments.

[0:45:19] Voice 13: Sandra had some comments or questions about the docs.

[0:45:24] Voice 13: Kim answered the one about DPAs.

[0:45:25] Voice 13: The other thing about DPAs is they address, they're really, they can be really good at addressing environmental impacts of docks, you know, getting, getting professional reports, you know, ensuring that they don't have a negative impact on the marine or shoreline ecosystems, but they don't, and they can't address things like the, the visual impact of a dock on, on adjacent neighbors, that sort of, that sort of thing.

[0:45:49] Voice 13: um oh the the provincial um process so um most of the trust area and like you said

[0:46:01] Voice 13: sandra the excluding cornby denman musketeer um are um uh application only area right now

[0:46:11] Voice 13: so basically it means that or an application area means the docks within most of the trust area

[0:46:18] Voice 13: area south of Hornby Denman are required to make an application other parts of the province are

[0:46:23] Voice 13: um are permission areas you can build a dock if it complies with the provincial guidelines

[0:46:32] Voice 13: um yeah I think that's that about covers it

[0:46:40] Trustee McConchie: yeah can

[0:46:42] Voice 13: I make a

[0:46:43] Trustee McConchie: couple comments yeah so that's great

[0:46:45] Trustee McConchie: thanks for asking that or answering the technical questions uh Kim and Robert um the political

[0:46:50] Trustee McConchie: questions because karen and sandra and jeff asked you know each time when referring to their issues

[0:46:56] Trustee McConchie: about what's driving this and so um just i want to talk about quickly a couple issues from so

[0:47:03] Trustee McConchie: you've got so folks know as a trustee where my political leanings are so my political leanings

[0:47:09] Trustee McConchie: like let's talk about this helicopter thing it's because it's become so personalized and it's

[0:47:14] Trustee McConchie: really hurt the community and it's dragged because it's become a personal conversation which is not

[0:47:20] Trustee McConchie: how I look at the view. If I had a paintbrush and I could just help make aeronautics better

[0:47:27] Trustee McConchie: in the Salish Sea here, I would get airplanes to fly on the proper flight plan that they're

[0:47:33] Trustee McConchie: supposed to, which they don't. I would make the helijet companies fly up boundary paths and then

[0:47:39] Trustee McConchie: go down Harrow Strait, but they don't. They cut across the islands, making this really loud sound.

[0:47:45] Trustee McConchie: But that's the federal government has to get on top of that. That's the Minister of Transportation

[0:47:49] Trustee McConchie: as a liberal. With regards to aeronautics in the Gulf Islands, I mean, there's aerodomes already

[0:47:54] Trustee McConchie: where float planes are allowed to land and there's regulations. I think aeronautics in the

[0:48:00] Trustee McConchie: Gulf Islands should be centralized rather than a piecemeal approach. So we have airplanes flying

[0:48:05] Trustee McConchie: all over the place. It's become kind of a disorganized, chaotic mess. And I think it

[0:48:11] Trustee McConchie: needs to become more centralized and there needs to be more regulations. Considering that aeronautics

[0:48:15] Trustee McConchie: the technology, we can't even anticipate in the future. We should address this. But I agree,

[0:48:22] Trustee McConchie: it's not our jurisdiction. And so this is where I struggle with that issue. And I think we're

[0:48:27] Trustee McConchie: going to talk about this at our next trust committee meeting. With regards to docs, I mean,

[0:48:31] Trustee McConchie: you still can have a doc. You simply have to go through a process of asking the local trust

[0:48:37] Trustee McConchie: trust committee, which I don't see as a bad thing. At the same time, I politically believe that we

[0:48:45] Trustee McConchie: should be encouraging marina usage. The Thieves Bay Marina, for example, for Magic Lake property

[0:48:50] Trustee McConchie: owners is one of the most highly successful community co-op marinas around. I mean,

[0:48:57] Trustee McConchie: so politically, that's where I lean. With regards to market forces and how, if the trust committee

[0:49:05] Trustee McConchie: is going to reduce the value of your property um you know i i think uh that the value of your

[0:49:12] Trustee McConchie: property is increased by the environmental quality of the property and the beauty of the property

[0:49:18] Trustee McConchie: um so you know there's only i it's out of my control as a trustee to to uh determine the

[0:49:27] Trustee McConchie: value of a property that's up to the market forces um but but i am of the political belief

[0:49:33] Trustee McConchie: that the reason why people buy property here is because it's beautiful and we want to keep it

[0:49:36] Trustee McConchie: beautiful. As far as the maximum house size, where did this come from? You know, this is because

[0:49:44] Trustee McConchie: there's currently an inappropriate regulation in place. It's 25% lot coverage on 10 acres. I mean,

[0:49:51] Trustee McConchie: that's not a logical bylaw. So that's why we've put some numbers out there to hear some feedback.

[0:49:58] Trustee McConchie: back. And Jeff, you're absolutely right. Some of these numbers are kind of arbitrary, but based on

[0:50:05] Trustee McConchie: the average size of a Canadian home throughout the country. But yeah, that's what I want to hear

[0:50:11] Trustee McConchie: from folks is comments related to that. You know, that's a good point, Jeff, that I think we need to

[0:50:16] Trustee McConchie: bring back to our LTC on March 24th to discuss further. So I just wanted to mention that just

[0:50:21] Trustee McConchie: from my political leanings when I'm thinking about this particular type of bylaw review.

[0:50:25] Trustee McConchie: So thanks, Chair Patrick.

[0:50:28] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[0:50:29] Trustee Patrick: And I just saw Sandra had raised how do we notify more people about this activity.

[0:50:35] Trustee Patrick: And we don't even have a draft bylaw yet.

[0:50:38] Trustee Patrick: And the LTC will discuss how to make sure the notifications get out there.

[0:50:43] Trustee Patrick: So thank you for your suggestion.

[0:50:46] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[0:50:46] Trustee Patrick: I'm going to take a next group of questions or comments.

[0:50:50] Trustee Patrick: And so I've got Kathy D.

[0:50:55] Trustee Patrick: Good morning, Kathy.

[0:50:57] Trustee Patrick: Hi.

[0:50:57] Voice 4: can you hear me yes oh hi thanks um i have a question and it's regarding again the inside

[0:51:05] Voice 4: house uh floor area i had brought it up before and was wondering if um you had talked about it

[0:51:13] Voice 4: with regards to right now anything um you know five feet and up is considered uh floor area and

[0:51:22] Voice 4: And whereas I believe code is livability is eight feet.

[0:51:26] Voice 4: So if I was to look at my own house and have a basement because of the land, it's sloped.

[0:51:33] Voice 4: So I've got, you know, some five feet, but I've got rocks all covered in cement because you can't walk on the floor.

[0:51:38] Voice 4: And plus, you're not going to be living in five feet, but that could potentially take away from somebody's 25 square feet, let's say, to their basement is unlivable.

[0:51:49] Voice 4: but that's about 800 square feet um so I was uh curious about that the other thing with regards

[0:51:57] Voice 4: to house floor area um is that um you know for me again the the lot uh configuration is I have

[0:52:06] Voice 4: 23 stairs like the back the front together to try to get out of my house because of the

[0:52:12] Voice 4: the lot configuration so if you if you put that into as floor area even though it's uh you know

[0:52:18] Voice 4: my stairs are pervious I don't know if that's a you know a question there but I just wanted to

[0:52:23] Voice 4: bring that up so that's uh what I wanted to ask really it was about that sort of five foot height

[0:52:29] Voice 4: and and over is considered floor area thanks

[0:52:33] Trustee Patrick: thank you very much Kathy well we're going to

[0:52:37] Trustee Patrick: take a number of questions and then we'll group them again so the next speaker is Nathan Nathan

[0:52:42] Trustee Patrick: Nathan Hogue?

[0:52:46] Voice 17: Yeah, hi, Nathan.

[0:52:47] Trustee Patrick: Good morning.

[0:52:48] Voice 17: Hi, hopefully everyone can hear me.

[0:52:49] Voice 17: Yes.

[0:52:50] Voice 17: Question, I guess, to the trustees.

[0:52:54] Voice 17: I sent a letter in that was circulated specifically

[0:52:57] Voice 17: about properties in 1201 Port Washington Road.

[0:53:02] Voice 17: There was a move by the planners

[0:53:05] Voice 17: to consider a technical amendment

[0:53:06] Voice 17: to change the zoning from C1A to RR2.

[0:53:11] Voice 17: I sent a letter in sort of explaining

[0:53:14] Voice 17: what would be the plans for that property.

[0:53:17] Voice 17: Previously, there was a discussion

[0:53:18] Voice 17: and more information was requested.

[0:53:19] Voice 17: So I guess my question is

[0:53:21] Voice 17: what further additional information would be required?

[0:53:25] Voice 17: And I'm here to answer any questions that may come up

[0:53:28] Voice 17: or provide more information as needed.

[0:53:32] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[0:53:32] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Nathan.

[0:53:33] Trustee Patrick: When we get on that conversation,

[0:53:35] Trustee Patrick: we'll lean to you if we need to ask more questions.

[0:53:38] Trustee Patrick: So thank you.

[0:53:40] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[0:53:41] Trustee Patrick: The next person, Mary Beth Rondeau.

[0:53:50] Voice 7: Hi there.

[0:53:50] Voice 7: Hi, Mary.

[0:53:51] Voice 7: Hi. I'm not sure about the internet connection here, but I'll give it a try.

[0:54:09] Trustee Patrick: Mary Beth, it just is

[0:54:10] Voice 7: on the idea of down zoning. Not working. Okay.

[0:54:14] Trustee Patrick: Well, just can you come back?

[0:54:16] Trustee Patrick: No. Can you try it again? Or you want you to come back to you're going to be able to fix something?

[0:54:22] Voice 7: I'm fixing something.

[0:54:23] Trustee Patrick: Okay, we'll come back to you. Thank you, Mary Beth.

[0:54:25] Trustee Patrick: okay um the next diane logan hi diane logan

[0:54:39] Voice 6: here hi diane um a couple of things i guess um

[0:54:44] Voice 6: i really want to say i'm really happy to see the rr1 and rr2 i think that's going to help deal with

[0:54:51] Voice 6: all sorts of things in the future in in a more densely area like mike magic lake and trincomalee

[0:54:58] Voice 6: So I'm really pleased about that.

[0:55:01] Voice 6: I'm wondering why we don't have in our bylaw something that refers to the agencies that are actually overseeing certain things.

[0:55:12] Voice 6: Like we don't really seem to have much that I could see in catchment.

[0:55:17] Voice 6: And maybe I missed out on that.

[0:55:20] Voice 6: I think there might be something in place there, but I didn't see it.

[0:55:24] Voice 6: um the fact that we are talking about groundwater um all the time and um we have so much water and

[0:55:32] Voice 6: it is possible to catch it um i know from family history here water has been held in cisterns in

[0:55:40] Voice 6: the past gravity fed before electricity and it was a you know a completely okay use um so um

[0:55:49] Voice 6: There's already those sorts of things in place with CRD.

[0:55:53] Voice 6: When it comes to docks, we have a property up north and we had a dock put on there.

[0:55:59] Voice 6: You have to deal with the Indigenous people.

[0:56:04] Voice 6: You have to make sure that you can walk under the dock.

[0:56:07] Voice 6: You've got to make sure that there's enough light filtering through.

[0:56:10] Voice 6: You can't go in eelgrass area.

[0:56:12] Voice 6: You already have a long list of stuff.

[0:56:15] Voice 6: you have to carry a million dollars liability on your property and you have to pay taxes on it

[0:56:19] Voice 6: every year so those things are in place for that septic is in place there's so many things that are

[0:56:27] Voice 6: in place already that it would be nice to see a reference to it in in the the bylaws so anybody

[0:56:38] Voice 6: who's looking to build they know they've got to fill fulfill those rules they're going to find

[0:56:42] Voice 6: out when they go to do their permit anyway but but you know sometimes with an existing building

[0:56:47] Voice 6: somebody might do something they shouldn't do and if at least if they're looking at the bylaws they

[0:56:52] Voice 6: know that those rules are there it also helps new trustees coming in knowing where the rules are and

[0:56:57] Voice 6: where to find them and then then any reference to what it is that you're looking for that specific

[0:57:04] Voice 6: to the the authorities that exist with the professionals um that that everybody knows

[0:57:11] Voice 6: where to go and find that and we know why we want it in our bylaw that makes it specific to

[0:57:18] Voice 6: pender island north pender island so that's one thing that that i would like to sort of suggest

[0:57:25] Voice 6: um the the other thing is um in regards to the square footage and this comment came up about

[0:57:32] Voice 6: five feet and up and i'm kind of in support of of the fact that we need to have something that

[0:57:38] Voice 6: recognizes basements we have a foundation that was put in a rock foundation that was built before the

[0:57:45] Voice 6: house that we're on that's over 100 years old and there's no way we're living in that basement

[0:57:50] Voice 6: and in on this property um of course we we would probably be covered where we're covered already

[0:57:57] Voice 6: already, because it's existing. But, you know, there's so many situations I know about on Pender

[0:58:03] Voice 6: where people's basements are not livable. And so needs to be something, some qualification

[0:58:10] Voice 6: in the bylaw that states that the exception would be the area of a basement that's not livable,

[0:58:19] Voice 6: or something that precludes that. Because you can have eight feet in height, but you've got

[0:58:24] Voice 6: a slope underneath you and there's just no way you're going to do anything with it so that's

[0:58:30] Voice 6: that's the other thing i would hope that we could do um and i'm going to bring up a new issue i'm

[0:58:36] Voice 6: kind of wondering about the there's a reference in the meeting minutes about multi-family dwellings

[0:58:44] Voice 6: at the driftwood center and so i'm kind of curious about that as far as where it falls into

[0:58:52] Voice 6: to the rural character um i realize we have uh multi-family um dwellings at plum tree court

[0:59:01] Voice 6: and that would be good if there were more there because there's a long lineup for it but there's

[0:59:07] Voice 6: something that and it's maybe just because i'm old or something but when i think of multi-family

[0:59:13] Voice 6: dwellings i don't think of rural possibly a town but i don't think of rural and i've had a lot of

[0:59:19] Voice 6: experiences in my life living in Kitimat living in Edmonton living in Victoria where when multi-family

[0:59:27] Voice 6: dwellings went in it set a precedent and all of a sudden an area now people are are presenting

[0:59:34] Voice 6: multi-family dwellings and you have more and more of that which I don't know I just have a feeling

[0:59:41] Voice 6: about that and I'm not too sure I'm obviously a majority should should have the say about it

[0:59:47] Voice 6: we obviously need some affordable housing and i guess i've spoken about this before

[0:59:52] Voice 6: and i'm glad to see that people can have suites now but maybe we need to be able to allow people

[0:59:58] Voice 6: to to have

[1:00:00] Voice 6: small housing or something on properties that maybe are subdividable, but people aren't really

[1:00:07] Voice 6: wanting to put something permanent on there. Something that fits in similar to a camp

[1:00:12] Voice 6: situation where there has to be facilities for people in support of their house or proper

[1:00:18] Voice 6: septic and water catchment or groundwater supported. Just some thoughts about that.

[1:00:27] Voice 6: I think that's that's it for me thanks for listening and thank you for all the hard work

[1:00:32] Voice 6: you do I really it's really appreciated all

[1:00:35] Trustee Patrick: right uh thank you um I guess we'll go back to

[1:00:39] Trustee Patrick: Mary Beth and then we'll take a pause and answer those questions so Mary Beth how is your internet

[1:00:44] Trustee Patrick: now okay

[1:00:46] Voice 7: okay oh it's still unstable well we can we can hear you okay um first thing is on the

[1:00:53] Voice 7: the concept of downzoning. With my municipal background, maybe I'm looking at this too

[1:00:59] Voice 7: simplistically, but I understand that you can only downzone if you have the consent of the property

[1:01:05] Voice 7: owner, or if you don't have that consent, that you compensate. And when I say you, I mean us,

[1:01:12] Voice 7: like as the taxpayers of the Islands Trust. So I'm curious about that. So on what basis are

[1:01:19] Voice 7: Are you down zoning if you do not have the consent of the property owner?

[1:01:24] Voice 7: Then I would like to move on just for a sec to talk about to support what was previously said on docs, where the speaker said that there was a great degree of requesting of information from the neighbors of the McKinnon Road people.

[1:01:40] Voice 7: A lot of it appeared to me digging up and engaging and that same amount of digging up and engaging as you entirely change a zone right on top of people who may not be even be aware about going from W-1 to W-3.

[1:01:55] Voice 7: So I would support that.

[1:01:57] Voice 7: then um you know laura i think uh you mentioned at the last i think it was the budget meeting

[1:02:02] Voice 7: that on south pender there was 100 opposition to the um bylaws um there at a meeting

[1:02:10] Voice 7: and yet they went ahead and went ahead and decided to go to first reading so um this is my policy

[1:02:17] Voice 7: you know municipal background and again concerns about exposing ourselves legally

[1:02:26] Voice 7: that if you do not have majority support or a great deal of support,

[1:02:33] Voice 7: not just why are you doing it, but you don't have support to do it,

[1:02:37] Voice 7: that, you know, recently in Lanceville,

[1:02:40] Voice 7: the community came back and the Supreme Court supported them

[1:02:44] Voice 7: because their opposition was not taken into consideration.

[1:02:49] Voice 7: Now, I know you're thinking about the governance review

[1:02:52] Voice 7: and thinking there's two things going on.

[1:02:54] Voice 7: I'm an agency through the Islands Trust Act.

[1:02:58] Voice 7: But what you're doing in land use bylaw is actually through the Municipal Act and the Local Governments Act.

[1:03:04] Voice 7: And I believe you do need to follow these democratic processes.

[1:03:08] Voice 7: Thank you.

[1:03:10] Trustee Patrick: All right. Thank you, Mary Beth.

[1:03:12] Trustee Patrick: Okay, we're going to pause here and go back and answer some of these questions.

[1:03:16] Trustee Patrick: We'll start the same way. I'll start with staff.

[1:03:18] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Chair Patrick.

[1:03:23] Voice 5: Patrick. So in terms of floor area, the LTC is not considering amendment to change the definition of a story.

[1:03:36] Voice 5: So as it stands now, a story is anything greater than I believe it's 1.5 meters in height.

[1:03:47] Voice 5: Diane mentioned water catchment requirements and that that is going to be a part of the water

[1:03:56] Voice 5: sustainability project so there could be through that project amendments to land use bylaw in terms

[1:04:02] Voice 5: of water catchment regulations. I also heard a question regarding multi-family dwellings at the

[1:04:11] Voice 5: Driftwood Centre and the LTC was considering rezoning the C2 portion of the Driftwood Centre

[1:04:20] Voice 5: to a residential rental zone and this is a recent change to the Local Government Act

[1:04:31] Voice 5: where a local government can create a rental zone but it has to be for multi-family residential

[1:04:41] Voice 5: So what that means is two or more connected units. So that's why the LTC was considering multifamily rental on the Driftwood Centre, but that's still in discussion, and no decision has been made there.

[1:05:01] Voice 5: and in terms of Mary Beth's question about the consent of the property owner

[1:05:06] Voice 5: when down zoning I may actually turn that to Robert if I may he may be able to speak to that

[1:05:14] Voice 5: a little bit more in detail than I can and you're on mute yeah thanks

[1:05:23] Voice 13: yeah I can speak to a couple

[1:05:24] Voice 13: of things with the with the height the questions about height to the comments about height

[1:05:31] Voice 13: The height in this land use by-law and most of the other land use by-laws of 1.5 meters is in that for zoning reasons and usually it's related to the areas of cottages and other things that have been long time floor area limits like commercial guest accommodation units.

[1:05:49] Voice 13: so it's um for allowing only counting those areas um that are um usable or close to usable and sort

[1:06:02] Voice 13: of things think about things like um under the eaves in a cottage something like that

[1:06:06] Voice 13: and then excluding crawl spaces that's very different from the building code requirements

[1:06:11] Voice 13: building code requirements you know have a certain height requirement um for livable spaces for new

[1:06:17] Voice 13: construction and then there's um all sorts of requirements that go along with that so if you

[1:06:23] Voice 13: have a space that's over a certain height under the building code you have to insulate it and

[1:06:27] Voice 13: so on um and if it's below a certain height you may not have to insulate it things like that so

[1:06:31] Voice 13: they're very different kind of regulations and then they serve different purposes um kathy also

[1:06:36] Voice 13: talked about stairs and floor areas this goes back to the comments we had that the last group

[1:06:42] Voice 13: of people is that floor is the inside of the building so if you have exterior stairs they're

[1:06:47] Voice 13: not part of floor if you have a patio or a deck that's not part of floor it's only enclosed

[1:06:52] Voice 13: interior spaces that are counted as floor area um yeah and then the questions from mary beth's

[1:07:02] Voice 13: questions about down zoning i know local governments can clearly down zone they can

[1:07:06] Voice 13: change their bylaw regulations to reduce density in this case to change zoning uh compensation is

[1:07:12] Voice 13: not payable that's right there in the local government act it says right there compensation

[1:07:16] Voice 13: is not payable as a result of a change to a land use bylaw or official community plan

[1:07:26] Voice 13: well established through court cases the local governments can do this of course

[1:07:30] Voice 13: there's lots of litigation around it the only thing a local government can't do is take away

[1:07:34] Voice 13: all economic use of a property through zoning that would be sort of de facto creating like a

[1:07:40] Voice 13: a de facto park and um in that case compensation may be payable um so that covers the technical

[1:07:48] Voice 13: questions thanks

[1:07:52] Trustee McConchie: so much uh chair patrick i'm just wondering to address a couple other comments

[1:07:56] Trustee McConchie: yes that

[1:07:57] Trustee McConchie: are kind of political uh so nathan was on and he was just nathan his proposal uh sorry

[1:08:06] Trustee McConchie: what is being requested is a change in zoning at the port washington general store area

[1:08:11] Trustee McConchie: area from commercial to rural residential. And I have to say, you know, in the OCP, it does say

[1:08:21] Trustee McConchie: all efforts should be made to preserve the Port Washington General Store. It says it right there.

[1:08:26] Trustee McConchie: I can't remember the page number. And unfortunately, that store is no longer with us. So that

[1:08:31] Trustee McConchie: didn't work out. And it doesn't strike me as a particularly burgeoning commercial center for

[1:08:38] Trustee McConchie: or Island economics.

[1:08:40] Trustee McConchie: So I certainly support what Nathan's proposing.

[1:08:45] Trustee McConchie: I do have concerns of course about exactly

[1:08:49] Trustee McConchie: what the borders would be and how that affects parking.

[1:08:52] Trustee McConchie: Cause that is a high traffic zone for schools.

[1:08:55] Trustee McConchie: Also, I would like to know from members of the community

[1:08:58] Trustee McConchie: if there's any opposition to that.

[1:09:00] Trustee McConchie: So I'm not sure exactly how we're going to go about that,

[1:09:03] Trustee McConchie: but it's on the whole,

[1:09:05] Trustee McConchie: Oh, I appreciate Nathan coming to the committee.

[1:09:09] Trustee McConchie: As a response to Diane's comments, I agree, Diane, that most of the folks here that are trying to just do basic stuff, you know, on their property are finding it overly the process to be daunting and finding out information to be challenging just to do it due to the various jurisdictional layers of our island's governance.

[1:09:32] Trustee McConchie: I will say that the Islands Trust planners are your public servants, and they do an excellent job of helping folks navigate the challenges faced by that.

[1:09:45] Trustee McConchie: And if there are concerns over how islanders are getting their information about how to navigate the bureaucracy, I need to hear more of that, more experiences between the CRD and the Islands Trust.

[1:09:56] Trustee McConchie: For example, I do hear from folks that it's very challenging

[1:10:00] Trustee McConchie: to get clarification on what the bylaws state

[1:10:03] Trustee McConchie: between the CRD and the Islands Trust.

[1:10:06] Trustee McConchie: So I hear you, Diane,

[1:10:07] Trustee McConchie: I really appreciate you bringing that up.

[1:10:09] Trustee McConchie: The request was whether or not to put that

[1:10:11] Trustee McConchie: within the bylaw.

[1:10:13] Trustee McConchie: I'm not sure what the answer to that is,

[1:10:15] Trustee McConchie: but I hear your comments.

[1:10:18] Trustee McConchie: And so I just wanted to mention those comments,

[1:10:20] Trustee McConchie: Chair Patrick.

[1:10:21] Trustee McConchie: I'm hoping that we answered the majority

[1:10:25] Trustee McConchie: of the questions there though.

[1:10:27] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, no, I'll follow up on Diane. I mean, these are, every opportunity should be taken by the Islands Trust working in cooperation with all of the organizations that affect, you know, building a home or building something on your property to make sure that the information is available in plain English, easy to understand, and that you can find what you need to know.

[1:10:51] Trustee Patrick: And I think we all need to work better together, because you're right, you're building a project, yet you may need to go through multiple agencies to get that permission to do that.

[1:11:00] Trustee Patrick: And I find most people, the average person doesn't get up in the morning and say, gee, I'm going to break the rule. It's usually because they missed something. They didn't know they had to go ask for that. And so we all should work better together to make that simple and easy for folks to understand.

[1:11:17] Trustee Patrick: so that wouldn't be within the bylaw that's sort of a general uh communications uh that we need to

[1:11:22] Trustee Patrick: have um and i know i'm committed to making sure we do more and better communication in cooperation

[1:11:28] Trustee Patrick: with all of the agencies um mary

[1:11:32] Trustee McConchie: beth oh sorry sorry no i didn't mean to interrupt i thought

[1:11:35] Trustee McConchie: you were moving on go ahead oh

[1:11:36] Trustee Patrick: no i was going to say mary beth was asking about process and um i

[1:11:40] Trustee Patrick: think this local trust committee will take the process very seriously there this is uh we've had

[1:11:44] Trustee Patrick: what did we say six this is our seventh uh community information meeting on this project

[1:11:49] Trustee Patrick: um we will be discussing sort of next steps and where we're going eventually there'll be a public

[1:11:54] Trustee Patrick: hearing and i know the trustees will take this process very seriously and um and we'll want to

[1:12:00] Trustee Patrick: hear from everyone so um that's all i can say and they'll be like making those decisions as we go

[1:12:06] Trustee Patrick: through this process so if i can add one more

[1:12:10] Trustee McConchie: one more comment just on diane i just wanted to reflect

[1:12:13] Trustee McConchie: and appreciate that she is supportive of the change

[1:12:18] Trustee McConchie: in zonings to Magic Lake and Tranquil Mallee.

[1:12:21] Trustee McConchie: These are different, highly densified areas of our islands.

[1:12:26] Trustee McConchie: And I believe that these zoning changes will address

[1:12:30] Trustee McConchie: a lot of the concerns raised

[1:12:32] Trustee McConchie: by the Magic Lake Property Owners Association

[1:12:34] Trustee McConchie: and its recent discussions on incorporation.

[1:12:38] Trustee McConchie: This trust committee is committed

[1:12:40] Trustee McConchie: committed to recognizing that Magic Lake is different,

[1:12:44] Trustee McConchie: Tranquil Mallee is different than other parts of the island

[1:12:48] Trustee McConchie: and that the zoning change will help those areas

[1:12:53] Trustee McConchie: maintain its healthy community vibes,

[1:12:56] Trustee McConchie: as well as giving some special rules

[1:13:00] Trustee McConchie: that reflect the difference

[1:13:03] Trustee McConchie: between the areas of the island.

[1:13:04] Trustee McConchie: So thanks, Diane, for those comments.

[1:13:06] Trustee Patrick: All right, thank you.

[1:13:07] Trustee Patrick: So we're going to go on to the next batch of questions

[1:13:09] Trustee Patrick: and I see we have Anne. Oops, I think. Sorry,

[1:13:19] Trustee Patrick: Anne. Okay, Mick, we're gonna let you. Yes,

[1:13:22] Trustee Patrick: you can proceed and just drop down temporarily. But go ahead,

[1:13:26] Trustee Patrick: Mick, and then we'll go to Anne.

[1:13:27] Voice 1: Sure. Just a few bigger questions around what you're doing. First of all, thank you for doing

[1:13:37] Voice 1: such a very thorough job on this land use by law update and the amount of consultation that's going

[1:13:45] Voice 1: on. It's taking place in the context of the governance report, which presumably is about

[1:13:55] Voice 1: effectiveness and the achievement of objectives of preserve and protect. When you look at the

[1:14:02] Voice 1: bigger set of tools that the trustees have and the trust has it's got three main tools it's got

[1:14:09] Voice 1: a land fund and some covenants that can help achieve the objectives it's what's sometimes

[1:14:17] Voice 1: called advocacy but in the legislation i think it's called cooperation i would i'll speak in a

[1:14:25] Voice 1: minute about collaboration on round tables to on achieving objectives and thirdly it's got the land

[1:14:32] Voice 1: use one well a very large proportion of the time and effort and consultation happens around the

[1:14:40] Voice 1: complex area of of land use and and changes and updating ocps and making sure everything is

[1:14:50] Voice 1: consistent with that so overall I think I'm just going to make a general comment from experience

[1:14:57] Voice 1: working locally in the CRD here in terms of fundraising and achieving environmental objectives

[1:15:05] Voice 1: that it it would be good to look at that the mix of those three tools and

[1:15:14] Voice 1: And particularly not to give up on what's called advocacy, but to actually turn it not into cooperation, but collaboration.

[1:15:24] Voice 1: And to actually set up some roundtables on specific issues where the, because we've got these multiple jurisdictions,

[1:15:33] Voice 1: we need some roundtables where the different levels of government send a rep.

[1:15:39] Voice 1: The community has a chance to attend with the trustees, and we look at the things that are pressing our island.

[1:15:50] Voice 1: Examples such as eroding shorelines a lack of water in some places to do, and any kind of development.

[1:15:59] Voice 1: um the long-standing issue of quote-unquote affordable housing and how you get people to

[1:16:08] Voice 1: donate or buy land because land's the issue and then and labor and charities so i'm just making

[1:16:16] Voice 1: a general point that i respect that you have to go through this and it's probably timely and

[1:16:23] Voice 1: And, you know, in two or three years' time, we'll probably see an OCP update, and it'll take, you know, three years.

[1:16:31] Voice 1: But there are other ways to achieve the objectives.

[1:16:34] Voice 1: And I think as a group overall, the Islands Trust and the individual islands, we actually have to critically look at the modus operandi here and actually put in some measurement.

[1:16:51] Voice 1: it you see it coming up this morning in terms of a lot of these questions multi-jurisdictions

[1:16:59] Voice 1: mission creep is not used but not all that kind of stuff so that's really what i'd like to say

[1:17:06] Voice 1: today that there are really good examples in the crd and the cowichan regional district

[1:17:13] Voice 1: and involving first nations where issues are actually getting dealt with as issues

[1:17:19] Voice 1: issues and not just part of a long convoluted paper intensive expensive process of changing

[1:17:30] Voice 1: whatever regulations are out of date so and I think when you look at the tax increases and the

[1:17:37] Voice 1: overall situation and the trust you really have to look at the effectiveness mix and the bang for

[1:17:43] Voice 1: the buck around those three basic tools you have um so sure i could talk about the individual

[1:17:51] Voice 1: initiatives maybe the province isn't going to allow any more docs after a certain date in this

[1:17:57] Voice 1: area anyway i don't know for sure um but i've heard that so um you know in which case we'll

[1:18:06] Voice 1: spend an awful lot of time talking about that docs that'll be redundant so you know and then

[1:18:12] Voice 1: And it's fine to say, OK, oh, you can go for a rezoning.

[1:18:17] Voice 1: What's the average cost of a rezoning?

[1:18:20] Voice 1: How long does it take?

[1:18:22] Voice 1: Would it be simultaneous with going to the province for a permit?

[1:18:29] Voice 1: Or would it be chronological?

[1:18:30] Voice 1: You get your rezoning, then you go for your permit.

[1:18:34] Voice 1: If permits then are allowed, then you find the province will stop giving permits and

[1:18:39] Voice 1: you've been through a rezoning for nothing.

[1:18:41] Voice 1: You see, the devil's in the details. And from the environmental point of view, yeah, the technology is approved around docks, they're not suitable everywhere. And we need to improve the processes on them. And maybe if the province is going to issue more docks, maybe the trust should be working, you know, and trying to get some consultation with Naples as part of their process.

[1:19:04] Voice 1: process so you know we keep taking changes to bylaws as be the kind of be all and end all a

[1:19:12] Voice 1: major focus of what we're doing here but uh that wasn't why the trust was set up nearly 50 years

[1:19:20] Voice 1: ago um just to to spend you know 80 percent or whatever it's time just messing around changing

[1:19:29] Voice 1: changing bylaws and going through theoretical options and all the rest of it so and that's

[1:19:35] Voice 1: why you're getting some of the backlash and frustration and some of the stuff around

[1:19:42] Voice 1: we don't want our taxes to go up so really we'd have to keep thinking about what's the objective

[1:19:48] Voice 1: of the change of the rule how can it be what are the different ways of achieving it

[1:19:54] Voice 1: and before we spend you know so much time on on these long drawn out um processes that take an

[1:20:04] Voice 1: inordinate amount of time with the planning staff you know so anyway some general comments today to

[1:20:11] Voice 1: give the context on what we're dealing with here and we're going to spend an awful lot more time

[1:20:17] Voice 1: before this becomes law and ultimately it's going to go to the municipal affairs minister who's

[1:20:22] Voice 1: either going to approve it or not so I hope those are helpful and I certainly will be inputting some

[1:20:29] Voice 1: ideas to or maybe a bit less for the government's report but you know through the trustees because

[1:20:36] Voice 1: that's still on the table that process hasn't finished yet either it's a very important process

[1:20:42] Voice 1: thank you very much for not so much questions today but maybe one question what is the average

[1:20:49] Voice 1: cost of going from rezoning and how long does it take eg a dock thank you thank

[1:20:56] Trustee Patrick: you mick okay now

[1:20:59] Trustee Patrick: i think it was ann if we could let uh ann hello yeah good morning ann good morning i i lowered

[1:21:17] Voice 3: my hand thinking i was unmuting myself that's

[1:21:20] Trustee Patrick: all right that happens all right

[1:21:21] Voice 3: okay your turn

[1:21:22] Voice 3: okay um so i'm going to echo what many of the people are already saying um about uh the docks

[1:21:30] Voice 3: and the helicopters. Yes, the waterfront owners can still apply, but it does add $4,500 for an

[1:21:39] Voice 3: application, and I actually think that's increasing that fee, and it's often not a pleasant experience

[1:21:45] Voice 3: for the applicants. When a group of residents oppose something outside the island's trust

[1:21:51] Voice 3: jurisdiction, it seems trustees and staff good-heartedly want to help out where they

[1:21:57] Voice 3: they really shouldn't. In regards to banning helicopters, would this include electric hover

[1:22:06] Voice 3: bikes that I see in the future coming? And I'll use an example of when it's a bunch of residents

[1:22:20] Voice 3: oppose something, and this is going to seem, you know, it's a little wackadoodle example,

[1:22:26] Voice 3: example uh and don't uh please don't review this as a complaint against hunting because my husband

[1:22:36] Voice 3: would be choked at me if he knew i was saying that but if a group of residents decide we should ban

[1:22:42] Voice 3: hunting in pender island's downtown core uh would then the trustees and staff good-heartedly

[1:22:50] Voice 3: try to bring a bylaw to prevent it even though it is outside their jurisdiction and i'm just

[1:22:57] Voice 3: saying that because you know it's kind of relevant with what's happened in the last week here on

[1:23:03] Voice 3: pender anyways that's just my two cents thanks all

[1:23:07] Trustee Patrick: right thank you ann for your two cents

[1:23:10] Trustee Patrick: okay i'm not seeing any news other new speakers up so let's work on this group um diane and kathy

[1:23:17] Trustee Patrick: you had your hands up i'm going to just assume if you want to speak again that i'm going to take

[1:23:21] Trustee Patrick: first speakers first at this time so either put your hands down or leave them up and we'll get

[1:23:26] Trustee Patrick: back to you um on a second round of questions shortly okay um i would like to i guess there's

[1:23:33] Trustee Patrick: less questions in this batch but uh is there any that uh staff wish to take on uh

[1:23:38] Voice 5: really that the

[1:23:39] Voice 5: one question i i heard was from mick in regards to a rezoning application the current fee is 4 400

[1:23:45] Voice 5: but the ltc is um going through the process of potentially adopting a new fees bylaw so that that

[1:23:56] Voice 5: that number could increase.

[1:23:58] Voice 5: But currently, the application cost for rezoning is $4,400.

[1:24:04] Voice 5: And that's the only question I saw.

[1:24:08] Trustee McConchie: There are a lot of political questions.

[1:24:11] Trustee McConchie: So if I can add a stab, Mick has a really good point.

[1:24:14] Trustee McConchie: And it's one thing I've learned in the three and a half years of being a trustee,

[1:24:18] Trustee McConchie: is that collaboration between the government agencies needs to be improved tremendously.

[1:24:23] Trustee McConchie: tremendously and uh you know talking to trustees at trust council uh informally you know just

[1:24:29] Trustee McConchie: trying to find out what is the relationship with the islands trust in the province how is our

[1:24:33] Trustee McConchie: relationship with the capital regional district um these are things that need to be improved and i i

[1:24:39] Trustee McConchie: feel that um the executive committee has done a very valiant effort at at working towards

[1:24:44] Trustee McConchie: collaboration uh i noticed that even adam olson or mla is hosting these um southern gulf island

[1:24:51] Trustee McConchie: forum discussions, some outside of his jurisdiction, but nonetheless, there has been an

[1:24:57] Trustee McConchie: improvement in collaboration. But you're right, Mick, it does require more effort and I would

[1:25:05] Trustee McConchie: say streamlining. So looking to other jurisdictions like what Cowichan, you suggested a Cowichan

[1:25:11] Trustee McConchie: regional district is doing, these are all good examples that we can work on moving forward.

[1:25:16] Trustee McConchie: um now with regards to docs i you know i i've looked at this as uh making the the important

[1:25:25] Trustee McConchie: point to make which is that we are simply adopting what self-pender has already in place um and that

[1:25:34] Trustee McConchie: uh i i was as a trustee i feel it's it is important that our islands have bylaws that are

[1:25:42] Trustee McConchie: are equal and not so once you cross the bridge of a man-made canal all of a sudden there's

[1:25:48] Trustee McConchie: different rules it doesn't make much sense so I thought that this was and the South Pender

[1:25:53] Trustee McConchie: experience has been positive from what I've heard but it'd be interesting to see if there's any

[1:25:58] Trustee McConchie: detriment to the lives or the value of the properties on South Pender as a result of

[1:26:04] Trustee McConchie: the bylaw which has I think been in place for like six or seven years. With regards to Anne's

[1:26:09] Trustee McConchie: question about how trustees respond to issues outside of their jurisdiction i mean yeah that's

[1:26:17] Trustee McConchie: that's you know that's a really good point and like we because we're boots on the ground trustees

[1:26:23] Trustee McConchie: and other government officials in different jurisdictions you know they they're not as as

[1:26:29] Trustee McConchie: present here uh because they're busy or i don't know they don't maybe they don't want to be i'm

[1:26:33] Trustee McConchie: not sure if they can speak for themselves but yeah i do get a ton of requests from folks that

[1:26:39] Trustee McConchie: that uh say hey mcconkie can you with your trust committee can you deal with this issue

[1:26:44] Trustee McConchie: and it is a challenge uh it is a challenge to balance you know dealing with housing uh dealing

[1:26:50] Trustee McConchie: with uh issues of freighters uh issues that we don't have specific uh control over in our

[1:26:58] Trustee McConchie: jurisdiction but we do have a say and i i kind of feel like that your analogy sort of encapsulates

[1:27:04] Trustee McConchie: much of the discussion that's been going on on trust council about the role of the islands trust

[1:27:09] Trustee McConchie: So it's a good question. And I don't have an answer for you other than my job as a trustee is to listen. And in this particular circumstance, I have, you know, I have. So to be completely honest on this helicopter issue, it's like I've got 40 emails and letters from people that want to support this idea of banning as a land use regulation, a landing pad.

[1:27:36] Trustee McConchie: right and then I've got a whole I got no emails or letters saying don't do this I just have a

[1:27:45] Trustee McConchie: bunch of Facebook comments right so I and then when I drive down Pirates Road I see a bunch of

[1:27:52] Trustee McConchie: signs I lots of people are really worked up about this issue so yeah I struggle to to find out what

[1:27:59] Trustee McConchie: how to reflect the needs of the community uh but and it is it is a it's a big challenge it's a

[1:28:06] Trustee McConchie: a challenge for future trustees to handle um i want to hear more from folks about this particular

[1:28:12] Trustee McConchie: issue with helicopters but it's important to put it in writing uh in an email or a letter to the

[1:28:17] Trustee McConchie: local trust committee as well as speaking so i just wanted to address some of those political

[1:28:21] Trustee McConchie: concerns chair patrick i i'm not sure i hope i i've kind of gave a given a transparent uh answer

[1:28:29] Trustee McConchie: as possible here no

[1:28:30] Trustee Patrick: that's all right now i'll just follow up uh thank thank you mick um those who

[1:28:35] Trustee Patrick: who hear my political lectures from time to time,

[1:28:37] Trustee Patrick: I always say the three words in cooperation with

[1:28:41] Trustee Patrick: are more important than the preserve and protect

[1:28:46] Trustee Patrick: three words that are in our mandate.

[1:28:48] Trustee Patrick: It is absolutely critical that we must work

[1:28:51] Trustee Patrick: in cooperation with not only other agencies, but people.

[1:28:56] Trustee Patrick: That's what it says in there.

[1:28:59] Trustee Patrick: Roundtables, I'm a huge fan of roundtables.

[1:29:01] Trustee Patrick: There's another thing, if you're looking for ideas

[1:29:03] Trustee Patrick: is to consider, Mick, and your comments that you will be hopefully making, is solution labs are

[1:29:09] Trustee Patrick: another interesting concept of working in community on solving problems. So, yes, we must

[1:29:18] Trustee Patrick: work together and look at these issues from all angles and appreciate that feedback. Okay.

[1:29:27] Trustee Patrick: Okay. So I'm just seeing second hands up now. Are there anyone else that wants to speak for

[1:29:36] Trustee Patrick: a first time? Because I'm happy to give second opportunities. I just want to make sure those

[1:29:40] Trustee Patrick: that are sitting wanting to raise their hand for a first question have that chance. I see

[1:29:46] Trustee Patrick: Dale Henning has raised his hand. Hello, Dale.

[1:29:53] Voice 11: Good morning. Good morning.

[1:29:54] Voice 11: Good evening, I'm Mike O'Connor.

[1:30:00] Voice 11: like to comment, you know, I guess, Ben, you're kind of caught between a bit of a rock and a hard

[1:30:06] Voice 11: place because people often come to you as trustee for the, you know, the Islands Trust and want you

[1:30:12] Voice 11: to get involved. I think it's one of those things where somewhere along the line, you really have to

[1:30:20] Voice 11: turn around and say, no, I'm sorry, this is not a responsibility of the Islands Trust and direct

[1:30:28] Voice 11: people to the proper provincial, federal, or other government agency that it is.

[1:30:36] Voice 11: Because what it's doing, it's taking up a tremendous amount of your time for something

[1:30:41] Voice 11: which you are not responsible for.

[1:30:43] Voice 11: You cannot make rules on.

[1:30:45] Voice 11: You cannot rule on it.

[1:30:47] Voice 11: There's a whole bunch of things you can't do because it's simply out of your control.

[1:30:52] Voice 11: It is handled by a federal agency, especially in relation to the, you know, the helicopter

[1:30:57] Voice 11: landing pad. It's really too bad that this has kind of surfaced on Pender. And I understand that

[1:31:06] Voice 11: the that the owner of the helicopter has realized that he kind of made a mistake from day one by

[1:31:13] Voice 11: not sorry to use Chair Patrick's comments, not discussing and and working something out

[1:31:24] Voice 11: beforehand, that could have solved a lot of problems. But I would just suggest that if

[1:31:30] Voice 11: you know people come to you and you know that it is something that is not the responsibility

[1:31:36] Voice 11: of the Islands Trust is to direct them to the appropriate provincial or federal department.

[1:31:48] Voice 11: and, you know, let's put all your efforts and your time here on the Islands Trust, you know,

[1:31:55] Voice 11: where, you know, you can do some good. Thank you.

[1:32:00] Trustee Patrick: Thank you, Dale. Okay, anyone else that wants to

[1:32:04] Trustee Patrick: speak for a first time? And if you don't want to speak for a second time, like Dale, just put your

[1:32:10] Trustee Patrick: hand down so I don't lose track. Okay, I'm not seeing anyone else raise their hand, so I'm going

[1:32:16] Trustee Patrick: going to go back up to the top of the list there we have diane logan oops diane just disappeared

[1:32:20] Trustee Patrick: diane did you want to speak yep your hands back up so let's let diane logan speak hi diane hi um

[1:32:28] Voice 6: this is a question about um containers um i'm not sure about how the bylaw falls but i'm just

[1:32:37] Voice 6: wondering what what the position of the trust is on having containers to house emergency use um

[1:32:44] Voice 6: um things and um for for emergency preparedness and if there's any kind of um what what the rules

[1:32:52] Voice 6: are in regards to containers your

[1:32:54] Trustee Patrick: shipping containers is what you're referring to right

[1:32:57] Trustee Patrick: yes yeah all right thank you we'll uh gather some questions and come back to that again

[1:33:02] Trustee Patrick: so i have kathy d hi

[1:33:11] Voice 4: can you hear me yes we can okay thanks sorry i'm back to this just uh again

[1:33:17] Voice 4: because I'm a little confused I guess by the answer or I must have missed it or something.

[1:33:21] Voice 4: So is the 1.5 meter height and supposedly let's say unlivable area in a basement or whatever

[1:33:30] Voice 4: still considered part of the 2500 square feet? So thanks that's my question.

[1:33:39] Trustee Patrick: Sorry okay thank you Kathy. Thanks. All right and then we have Sandra. Hi

[1:33:50] Voice 15: I just had a question

[1:33:52] Voice 15: about um ben mentioned political concerns how you hear the um about the helicopters you heard

[1:34:00] Voice 15: got 40 letters from those opposed and no letters or emails from those four um i'm just wondering

[1:34:07] Voice 15: has north pender considered doing like picking a list of what all the top concerns are and actually

[1:34:15] Voice 15: doing a poll of constituents to see what the you know because i you know the vocal minority or the

[1:34:23] Voice 15: vocal majority tends to sit somewhere in the middle of things right and you get people who are

[1:34:31] Voice 15: or sorry the non-vocal majority tends not to speak about things and uh so i'm just wondering

[1:34:39] Voice 15: for these types of things and it could be the helicopters it could be the dots it could be the

[1:34:44] Voice 15: um you know any number the floor sizes it could be any like maybe as part of that before you get

[1:34:52] Voice 15: to first reading you take a look at at polling the the people of north pender and seeing where

[1:35:02] Voice 15: they stand on these issues um another thing the round tables i like that idea i know i don't think

[1:35:10] Voice 15: we've done any of that in regards to this round of bylaw reviews i mean i'd be willing

[1:35:16] Voice 15: i would volunteer to be on a round table if you needed some input from somebody with a

[1:35:25] Voice 15: larger rural property on a round table or a waterfront property on a round table

[1:35:32] Voice 15: the the question somebody i think was nick posed earlier about the cost of rezoning his

[1:35:39] Voice 15: second part of his question was the length of the time for rezoning and that wasn't addressed

[1:35:45] Voice 15: and Ben's comment earlier about marinas and wanting people to use marinas

[1:35:54] Voice 15: I mean we have I mean that's our first choice currently because we don't have a dock but we

[1:36:02] Voice 15: will be booted out most likely in the summer so then what do we do with our boat in the summer

[1:36:07] Voice 15: the marinas are full on pender especially in the summertime when there's visiting boats coming

[1:36:11] Voice 15: to use marinas so marinas aren't the unless your plant you're willing to consider expanding

[1:36:20] Voice 15: existing marinas on the islands i don't know that that's really an option a really good option for

[1:36:28] Voice 15: people who you know want to have boats in the gulf islands um that's it thank you thank you

[1:36:35] Trustee Patrick: very much Sandra all right so I'll turn to staff there were a couple of questions there that

[1:36:40] Trustee Patrick: staff could tackle I'm

[1:36:49] Voice 5: here sorry having trouble with my mouse there we go

[1:36:52] Voice 5: I was there frantically trying to get it back on uh to answer the questions about shipping

[1:36:58] Voice 5: containers um the draft land use bylaw added a new regulation um that basically states that

[1:37:06] Voice 5: shipping containers are not permitted on properties less than one acre um for those properties zone

[1:37:13] Voice 5: rural residential one two rural rural comprehensive one and rural comprehensive two

[1:37:21] Voice 5: all other zones um or if you're greater than one acre you are permitted shipping containers

[1:37:27] Voice 5: containers they're considered an accessory structure. In terms of anything less than 1.5

[1:37:36] Voice 5: meters in height that anything less than 1.5 meters in height is not considered a story so it

[1:37:44] Voice 5: would not be in part of the calculation for the maximum floor area. So if you have that small

[1:37:51] Voice 5: space it's not going to be included in the calculation if you have a property less than

[1:37:54] Voice 5: one acre it won't be included in the calculation of the 2500 square feet and in terms of a length

[1:38:01] Voice 5: of a rezoning application I mean I really I can't put maximum because some application takes longer

[1:38:09] Voice 5: than than others but really the quickest application while meeting all the legislative

[1:38:16] Voice 5: requirements the least amount of time is generally about nine months but it could take anywhere

[1:38:22] Voice 5: between nine months to about a year or so if it's quite a quick application there's no community

[1:38:30] Voice 5: opposition and it's in um in compliance with the ocp thank you all

[1:38:40] Trustee Patrick: right uh thank you ben did you

[1:38:42] Trustee Patrick: have anything you wanted to add yeah

[1:38:45] Trustee McConchie: i i what i don't understand just just as far as i didn't

[1:38:48] Trustee McConchie: realize marinas were chock full like i thought browning was expanding it's marina you know like

[1:38:55] Trustee McConchie: the last trust committee uh approved the zoning under diane and derrick i think it was they

[1:39:01] Trustee McConchie: uh approved it's the marina at brown is gonna be huge from what i understand maybe robert you can

[1:39:07] Trustee McConchie: speak to that yeah

[1:39:09] Voice 13: there's a reconfiguration of the docks it's kind of a phase plan it would

[1:39:12] Voice 13: result in more more slips port browning marina i think that's still ongoing though um yeah

[1:39:21] Voice 13: Yeah,

[1:39:22] Trustee McConchie: certainly the Magic Lake property owners. I mean, I know that that particular marina is just open to them, I think, or the cost savings. I'm not sure you can speak. I'm speaking off the cuff, but I do know there's lots of slips there. But, you know, it's a fair point, Sandra. I hear your concern. I just want to let you know, I hear your concerns. I'm going to have to think about a lot of the comments that I've heard today and reflect on them. So I appreciate you bringing them up.

[1:39:47] Trustee McConchie: I

[1:39:48] Voice 13: just had one more thing the OCP does support, and we haven't seen this really at all, is shared docks, like where several property owners can get together and share a single dock.

[1:39:57] Voice 13: And if the bylaw proceeds as proposed and need a rezoning for a dock anyway, a shared dock could then become a more viable option.

[1:40:10] Trustee Patrick: okay there was one specific again i think kathy asked wanted a clear answer is a basement

[1:40:17] Trustee Patrick: included or you know if it's under i guess what in the 2500 square feet so i think she was just

[1:40:22] Voice 13: yes yeah it would be if it's over 1.5 meters and that's the same as it is has been for years for

[1:40:27] Voice 13: cottages and um and commercial like commercial accommodation buildings that are um that have

[1:40:34] Voice 13: a limit on floor area okay

[1:40:39] Trustee Patrick: any other comments then i'm not seeing any hands up is there anyone else

[1:40:44] Trustee Patrick: that have any questions or comments uh while we're waiting for

[1:40:49] Trustee McConchie: while we're waiting for that

[1:40:50] Trustee McConchie: just i'm not even sure if this relates to the land use bylaw review but it's an opportunity

[1:40:55] Trustee McConchie: because robert's on the line here um i've gotten numerous requests over the past couple weeks just

[1:41:01] Trustee McConchie: Just to really clarify about tiny homes, Robert, there's an idea in the community that we can create a density-filled tiny home village, or someone has a property and they want to put a tiny home on it.

[1:41:16] Trustee McConchie: I'm just wondering if you can just speak really clearly about just that issue and where things are right now, just for folks, just mainly because I know the answer.

[1:41:25] Trustee McConchie: It'd be great to just kind of get that quickly in the public record.

[1:41:28] Trustee McConchie: so

[1:41:29] Voice 13: when people talk about tiny homes there's different people have different ideas about

[1:41:31] Voice 13: what that is um but i guess one of the myths will bust is that there's no minimum floor area limit

[1:41:39] Voice 13: in the land use bylaw for homes just you know people can say oh it's too you know i can't build

[1:41:44] Voice 13: under a certain size there's building code limits practical building code limits you have to have

[1:41:49] Voice 13: exits and so on um and separations between different kind of things under the building

[1:41:55] Voice 13: and cope with it um but a tiny home if someone wanted to bring a tiny home say onto a rural

[1:42:00] Voice 13: property they got a house no cottage they bring a tiny home on they put it on a foundation or they

[1:42:05] Voice 13: put it on blocks that under the zoning bylaw that would just be like a cottage if they have

[1:42:10] Voice 13: a vacant property and they want to put a tiny home on it same thing you know put it on a foundation

[1:42:15] Voice 13: or blocks they can get building inspection for that um it would be considered like the dwelling

[1:42:19] Voice 13: on the property um but i think when a lot of people talk about tiny homes they're talking

[1:42:24] Voice 13: about a couple of other things one is mobile tiny homes still on wheels basically so that's kind of

[1:42:29] Voice 13: like an rv and the other is tiny homes in addition like additional tiny homes so they've got allowed

[1:42:36] Voice 13: to have one house on their property it's less than three acres oh i want to bring on a couple tiny

[1:42:40] Voice 13: homes so that's additional density um i mean that's something the local trust committee could

[1:42:45] Voice 13: consider through an application process um or they could look at you know some sort of change to the

[1:42:52] Voice 13: a change to the policies or regulations that might allow a tiny home in addition to the house

[1:42:57] Voice 13: and the cottage say on a larger rural property that

[1:43:00] Trustee McConchie: would be a change

[1:43:01] Voice 13: to the regulations so it's

[1:43:02] Trustee McConchie: interesting so a tiny home as long as it's on wheels is considered an rv can't

[1:43:07] Voice 13: get a building

[1:43:08] Voice 13: can't get a building permit for it and so it's it look kind of looks like an rv it's basically the

[1:43:13] Voice 13: same function as an rv right it's it may be better in terms of its livability because it's constructed

[1:43:19] Voice 13: for a year-round living than an RV, which an RV generally isn't, right?

[1:43:23] Voice 13: You can get factory-constructed tiny homes that are basically certified

[1:43:29] Voice 13: at the factory for health and safety.

[1:43:35] Voice 13: I think it's BC Housing has a really good publication on tiny homes.

[1:43:41] Trustee McConchie: Okay.

[1:43:43] Trustee McConchie: But essentially, it comes down to building code, essentially.

[1:43:47] Voice 13: yeah building code is the is the sort of key key obstacle for a lot of tiny homes that aren't

[1:43:53] Voice 13: factory built so

[1:43:55] Trustee McConchie: if somebody wanted to say a petition or make an advocacy to change or address

[1:43:59] Trustee McConchie: this who who should they contact robert if

[1:44:03] Voice 13: they if the if the issue is the the building code issues

[1:44:06] Voice 13: i mean that's a in british columbia like most provinces we have a it's called the bc building

[1:44:11] Voice 13: code right it's it's so it's it's a province-wide building code it's what's called a universal

[1:44:17] Voice 13: universal building code that applies everywhere in the province um with the regional districts

[1:44:22] Voice 13: and municipalities they administer the building code they set up a building permitting system

[1:44:27] Voice 13: um some don't like some areas don't have building permitting like Hornby Denman and

[1:44:33] Voice 13: musketeer don't have building permitting doesn't mean people aren't expected to adhere to the

[1:44:38] Voice 13: provincial building code so

[1:44:41] Trustee McConchie: Adam Olson is or the MLA is a person I'm just thinking about yeah in

[1:44:46] Voice 13: in terms of lobbying or who to contact yep yeah okay it's a provincial code okay great thanks

[1:44:51] Trustee McConchie: robert

[1:44:52] Trustee Patrick: minister eb yeah

[1:44:54] Trustee McConchie: um

[1:44:56] Trustee Patrick: there is a lot of interest in the tiny homes on wheels is an

[1:44:59] Trustee Patrick: important thing it's i think it's as we look at housing as a ladder it's a step up um it's

[1:45:04] Trustee Patrick: building an asset and uh which is better than than an rv or a trailer of that nature so i think it's

[1:45:10] Trustee Patrick: an important thing that we do need to find a solution to and i know many of the islands are

[1:45:15] Trustee Patrick: are wrestling with this this is something we've got to figure out yeah

[1:45:19] Trustee McConchie: i appreciate that little

[1:45:21] Trustee McConchie: commercial break thank you i can explain to islanders uh better now

[1:45:24] Trustee Patrick: there we go i see kathy

[1:45:27] Trustee Patrick: has raised her hand hello kathy can

[1:45:33] Voice 4: you hear me yes you can hi sorry to belabor this but now uh

[1:45:38] Voice 4: this is just now a sort of a request for uh if trustees could going forward uh discuss this a

[1:45:45] Voice 4: little further about that 1.5 meters and and I mean granted you know I already have my house so

[1:45:52] Voice 4: that will be sort of grandfathered but for other people going forward if I was to look at my house

[1:45:58] Voice 4: with this five feet high and on you know the flooring not flat there's 800 square feet in

[1:46:07] Voice 4: my basement that I can't use I'm six feet tall so of course five feet's not very very good but if

[1:46:14] Voice 4: if my house is 1800, which it is 1800 square feet, if I was building this, I could, somebody

[1:46:19] Voice 4: else would only be able to have 1000 square feet. So that doesn't seem very reasonable. But anyway,

[1:46:27] Voice 4: I'm just saying if you could discuss something like this, this whole basement thing going forward.

[1:46:32] Trustee Patrick: Thanks. Thank you, Kathy. I think we hear you. It's come up and something that we'll need to

[1:46:38] Trustee Patrick: to discuss in our next meeting.

[1:46:44] Trustee Patrick: Okay, anyone else?

[1:46:51] Trustee Patrick: It's not even a sunny day out there.

[1:46:55] Trustee McConchie: I mean, all the comments here are very well thought

[1:46:59] Trustee McConchie: and obviously a general reflection about how smart

[1:47:03] Trustee McConchie: and how engaged our community is on the islands here.

[1:47:07] Trustee McConchie: So I've been extremely impressed by the level of dialogue

[1:47:13] Trustee McConchie: that's been taking place even on these Zoom meetings.

[1:47:16] Trustee McConchie: So I want to thank all everyone here so far. I'm not sure if there's more comments or not, but these are all very important thoughts I've taken notes today and I want to let folks know I'm going to go back and think about it.

[1:47:26] Trustee McConchie: And then I believe a part of the process, Chair Patrick is just so with folks are listening on March 24, we're going to have a local trust business meeting. Is that correct?

[1:47:35] Trustee McConchie: correct and

[1:47:36] Trustee McConchie: they're now just uh from a trustee process perspective maybe you can help me out

[1:47:41] Trustee McConchie: is that an opportunity for trustees to uh propose motions to uh for bylaws to go to first reading

[1:47:49] Trustee McConchie: is that is that a possible process or maybe planner stock till yeah

[1:47:53] Trustee Patrick: the planner stock till

[1:47:54] Trustee Patrick: yeah

[1:47:55] Voice 5: the ltc still has a number of items that need a decision on before moving forward to

[1:48:04] Voice 5: first reading so what we're hoping is the ltc staff's going to bring forward a staff report

[1:48:09] Voice 5: outlining the final items that need a decision by the ltc in hopes that staff can bring forward a

[1:48:16] Voice 5: full draft bylaw to the april meeting that could be considered uh given first reading

[1:48:23] Trustee McConchie: and and also that's great thanks planners doctor and also uh that's going to be basically we're

[1:48:29] Trustee McConchie: We're going to go back to in-person meetings from what I understand.

[1:48:32] Trustee McConchie: Yes.

[1:48:33] Voice 5: The March

[1:48:34] Voice 5: 24th is an in-person meeting.

[1:48:36] Trustee McConchie: Yes.

[1:48:37] Trustee McConchie: This is essentially our last.

[1:48:38] Trustee McConchie: This is the last.

[1:48:39] Trustee McConchie: Virtual.

[1:48:40] Trustee McConchie: Hallelujah.

[1:48:41] Trustee McConchie: I mean, it's great.

[1:48:43] Trustee McConchie: Like, I don't know.

[1:48:44] Trustee McConchie: Maybe it'd be great to hear from folks at future trust meetings, you know, particularly the community information meetings, you know, where we're not making decisions.

[1:48:54] Trustee McConchie: I'd be curious to know if this is a good process.

[1:48:57] Trustee McConchie: I'd be good to hear from folks how they found that virtual Zoom government experience, because I've heard some really random comments about how it's perceived as deceitful.

[1:49:08] Trustee McConchie: But then there's other people that think it's fantastic. So I hope that this has been a useful process for folks in the community.

[1:49:15] Trustee Patrick: Well, you generated a couple of hands to come up. So the first one was Anne.

[1:49:24] Voice 15: Hello, Anne.

[1:49:26] Voice 15: Hi.

[1:49:27] Voice 3: So will you guys be continuing with Zoom?

[1:49:33] Voice 3: and recording the meetings so that if you don't make it,

[1:49:36] Voice 3: you can still watch it.

[1:49:38] Trustee Patrick: Correct. So the, we'll be back at the next meeting.

[1:49:41] Trustee Patrick: We'll be in person. We will be attempting to live stream.

[1:49:45] Trustee Patrick: And I always say attempting,

[1:49:46] Trustee Patrick: because that's the wifi at the moment on the Island and whether or not,

[1:49:51] Trustee Patrick: you know, how predictable it is, but we will be recording.

[1:49:54] Trustee Patrick: We will be attempting to live stream.

[1:49:56] Trustee Patrick: We will not have two way communications.

[1:49:58] Trustee Patrick: So, what's important is, if you can't come to the meeting, please send your questions and comments in advance to the meeting so that we are aware of what you have if you can't participate in the town hall because we do want to hear from you.

[1:50:13] Trustee Patrick: and we do want to make sure that we're considering your thoughts as we make these final you know

[1:50:19] Trustee Patrick: decisions and thoughts about the draft bylaw before we even consider first reading which

[1:50:24] Trustee Patrick: still is a process and there's still change that can occur after first reading as well so

[1:50:30] Trustee Patrick: super thanks thanks i say paula has her hand up hello paula just to take yourself off mute

[1:50:44] Trustee Patrick: there we go sorry

[1:50:46] Voice 16: girl that's right um the zoom meeting's been really helpful i know there's a

[1:50:50] Voice 16: a lot of owners on the island that don't live on island most of the year and like myself are

[1:50:55] Voice 16: dreaming for the retirement and soccer weekends to end but until then um this has been this has

[1:51:02] Voice 16: been really helpful i i'm so sick of zoom as most people are probably so it'll be nice if i can

[1:51:08] Voice 16: attend some live ones um moving forward but i hope you find a way to have a hybrid so because

[1:51:14] Voice 16: sometimes questions don't occur to you ahead of time it's when you listen to the discussion

[1:51:18] Voice 16: and this these last two years hopefully have given an opportunity to learn how to

[1:51:22] Voice 16: sort of hybrid the two together so that you hear from more folks that's

[1:51:28] Trustee Patrick: it no thank you thank you

[1:51:29] Trustee Patrick: very much i know the hybrid meeting model is definitely in our radar and it's uh it's not

[1:51:36] Trustee Patrick: that we don't want to do it it's uh it's just nothing is ever as easy as you think it requires

[1:51:42] Trustee Patrick: that we have the administrative support to make that uh make that work and um but that definitely

[1:51:48] Trustee Patrick: is our overall objective to get to someday is to have a fully hybrid meeting because we know that

[1:51:54] Trustee Patrick: is more um accepted yes thank you thank you thank you

[1:52:02] Trustee Patrick: thank you and i see diane logan has her hand

[1:52:05] Trustee Patrick: up

[1:52:08] Voice 9: hello i

[1:52:09] Voice 6: just want to hi i just want to say i really um enjoy the zoom um certainly the in-person

[1:52:16] Voice 6: meetings are or you know have have their i guess charm i

[1:52:22] Voice 1: don't know if

[1:52:22] Voice 6: that's the right word but

[1:52:23] Voice 6: with the zoom i really find that when you're not having to deal with the heckling that goes on in

[1:52:30] Voice 6: some of those meetings you you're in a quiet space and you can you can keep your head clear

[1:52:36] Voice 6: and and handle your comments a lot easier i think that people that might not otherwise comment

[1:52:43] Voice 6: will comment on a zoom and it it just it's just a nice space to be able to have that opportunity

[1:52:51] Voice 6: when you can't get there because you're well or maybe you've got physical issues there's yeah i

[1:52:56] Voice 6: hope that we can continue with the zoom and i don't know what how how well it works but i know

[1:53:03] Voice 6: that xbox has a thing that will actually focus in on the person who's speaking and pick their

[1:53:11] Voice 6: voice up it's designed to be able to work like that um we've used it with skype with family

[1:53:17] Voice 6: where you can see an entire room and then when someone talks it zooms in on them automatically

[1:53:22] Voice 6: so i think that that would be a good maybe technical component that somebody could add

[1:53:26] Voice 6: to that if you're going to do a combination meeting thank you for all that thank you diane

[1:53:32] Trustee Patrick: for those suggestions and yes we're so we're experimenting and trying all these tools and

[1:53:38] Trustee Patrick: usually ends up being me that has to haul it to the meeting and as long as it's easy to plug in

[1:53:44] Trustee Patrick: and play I'm all for it okay any other comments questions like I said this process still has

[1:53:53] Trustee Patrick: ways to go we do want to hear from you please send your emails if you want to make sure that

[1:53:58] Trustee Patrick: your email is going on the record and will show up please include south info at islandstrust.bc.ca

[1:54:04] Trustee Patrick: in in your uh like copy to file or you can also send it you know to the trustees and they they

[1:54:10] Trustee Patrick: they know to send it on but that way it guarantees that it's going to end up there and uh we do want

[1:54:17] Trustee Patrick: to hear from you your comments your suggestions are all very important we know we all live on

[1:54:22] Trustee Patrick: the islands together and that we all care deeply about uh the islands and um and the community

[1:54:29] Trustee Patrick: and I look forward to working with you

[1:54:33] Trustee Patrick: on moving this project forward.

[1:54:35] Trustee Patrick: And if there are no other questions or comments

[1:54:38] Trustee Patrick: at this time, no, go ahead.

[1:54:41] Trustee McConchie: Just wanted to mention, yeah,

[1:54:43] Trustee McConchie: if something comes up as a result of this meeting,

[1:54:47] Trustee McConchie: March 24th, there's a town hall.

[1:54:49] Trustee McConchie: I'm sure you were going to mention that, Chair Patrick,

[1:54:51] Trustee McConchie: but there is a town hall option

[1:54:53] Trustee McConchie: to come in person to the Anglican Hall

[1:54:56] Trustee McConchie: and uh and have your say the old the old school way uh in person and uh so if even if you didn't

[1:55:03] Trustee McConchie: speak today or have an option to express yourself and you want to give yourself a bit of time to

[1:55:07] Trustee McConchie: think on it uh march 24th is the next uh business meeting where there will be motions and more

[1:55:13] Trustee McConchie: discussion on this what we discussed today

[1:55:15] Trustee Patrick: that's correct man like i said if you can't come please

[1:55:18] Trustee Patrick: get your your your words down in writing and uh and send them to her pick up the old phone and

[1:55:23] Trustee Patrick: call call us as well that works too um and with that if there's no further comments are there any

[1:55:33] Trustee Patrick: from staff i'll just look if there's anything there then i'd really like to appreciate all

[1:55:40] Trustee Patrick: the staff that came out on a saturday to support this meeting and for all of you that came and

[1:55:45] Trustee Patrick: joined us today it was a good conversation good questions and with that i just need a motion to

[1:55:53] Trustee Patrick: to adjourn this community information meeting.

[1:55:55] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, and with appreciation for our planners

[1:55:57] Trustee McConchie: getting through an illness and still showing up today,

[1:56:01] Trustee McConchie: Planner Stockdale, thank you.

[1:56:02] Trustee McConchie: And of course, Barbara Kojima,

[1:56:04] Trustee McConchie: thank you very much for your guys' work

[1:56:06] Trustee McConchie: and attention to this.

[1:56:07] Trustee McConchie: And of course, Chair Patrick for her tireless efforts

[1:56:10] Trustee McConchie: at the Protect and Preserve and Protect mandate.

[1:56:13] Trustee McConchie: I'd like to make a motion to adjourn.

[1:56:15] Trustee Patrick: I'll second that motion in cooperation with you

[1:56:19] Trustee Patrick: and all those in favor and we are adjourned and uh deb uh i'm sure if you just finished

[1:56:27] Trustee Patrick: watching this video when you get back that you saw you received some very rich information in it

[1:56:32] Trustee Patrick: uh so thank you everyone and enjoy the rest of your day thanks

[1:56:37] Voice 9: okay thank you guys

North Pender Special Meeting (CIM) 
Electronic Meeting Minutes 
March 12, 2022 ADOPTED Page 1 of 4 
 
 
North Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date: 
Location: 
March 12, 2022 
Electronic Meeting 
 
Members Present: Laura Patrick, Chair 
 Benjamin McConchie, Trustee 
  
Regrets: 
 
Staff Present: 
Deb Morrison, Trustee 
 
Robert Kojima, Regional Planning Manager 
 Kim Stockdill, Island Planner 
 Jennifer Kucherka, Recorder 
 
Public: 
 
There were approximately 20 attendees in the Zoom webinar 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Patrick called the meeting to order at 10:00 am.  She acknowledged that the meeting was 
being held in traditional territory of the Coast Salish First Nations. 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
By general consent, the agenda was approved as presented. 
3. COMMUNITY INFORMATION MEETING 
3.1 North Pender Island Local Trust Committee’s Land Use Bylaw Review Project.   
Planner, Kim Stockdill, outlined the North Pender Island LTC’s Land Use Bylaw Review 
Project.  Information reviewed in the slide presentation included:   
1. Project Outline Objective  
 To amend various regulations in the Land Use Bylaw to implement policies 
in the Official Community Plan; and to address legislative changes, and to 
make technical and other minor amendments to the LUB.   
2. Project Status   
 Early engagement with First Nations;   
 There has been 6 CIM’s to date regarding this project;   
 Referrals to the Special Agricultural APC;  
 Draft LUB regulations; and 
A D O P T E D 

 
North Pender Special Meeting (CIM) 
Electronic Meeting Minutes 
March 12, 2022 ADOPTED Page 2 of 4 
 
 Draft accompanying OCP bylaw.   
3. Rural Residential 1&2   
 All properties within Magic Lake and the Trincomali areas will be zoned to 
Rural Residential 1 (RR1); 
 All other properties that are zoned RR will be rezoned to a new Rural 
Residential 2 (RR2) zone; and 
 There is no change in density for the Rural Residential zones.  
4. Maximum Floor Area   
 Maximum floor area regulations for the RR1, RR2, R, RC1, RC2, and AG 
zones.   
5. Legal Non-Conforming “Grandfathering”   
 A provision is proposed for non-conforming dwellings.   
6. Accessory Structure on Bare Land   
 Current LUB only permits an accessory building/structure prior to a house or 
cottage built on a property if the accessory building is to be used as a 
temporary dwelling.   
7. Helicopters   
 May 27, 2021 the NP LTC passed the following resolution: that the NPI LTC 
add a prohibition on recreational helicopters as a part of the LUB review;   
 An amendment was added to the Prohibited Uses for heliports and helipad, 
other than for emergency evacuation use.   
 Aeronautics is Federal jurisdiction and therefore may not be enforceable.  
8. MacKinnon Rd Properties   
 Four properties along MacKinnon Road zoned Commercial 2 (Tourist 
Accommodation) – C2;  
 Potential full build out of 55 Commercial Guest Accommodation Units 
(CGAU’s); 
 One of the four property owners agrees to reduce density from 9 CGAU’s to 
3 CGAU’s; and  
 Other two property owners are in discussions with the LTC with the 
possibility to register a S.219 covenant that would restrict any new 
development beyond the densities currently built on the property.   
 
 
 

 
North Pender Special Meeting (CIM) 
Electronic Meeting Minutes 
March 12, 2022 ADOPTED Page 3 of 4 
 
9. Docks   
 Currently the majority of area surrounding North Pender is zoned Water 1 
(W1) which permits the use of private docks for upland residential use, all 
areas with existing docks will retain W1 zoning or with an existing or in-
progress private dock license application with the Province; and   
 All other W1 without docks (other than marinas or federal transport) will be 
rezoned to Water 3 (W3) which does not permit private docks.   
10. Next Steps   
 Staff report to be presented at the LTC meeting on March 24, 2022;   
 Spring 2022; 
 LTC to finalize draft LUB bylaw.   
 Potential for First Reading.   
 Late Spring/Summer 2022; 
 Formal referral to First Nations and agencies.   
 CIM and Public Hearing (late summer or fall)   
Members of the community were invited to ask questions and/or comment; and the 
following discussion points were raised:   
 Two owners on MacKinnon Road are open to reduction of density and 
consideration of sustainability for development of commercial properties on 
MacKinnon Rd; 
 Clarification was provided for accessory buildings on vacant lots; 
 Question regarding any polls been considered/conducted of how many 
helicopters are spotted daily and/or issues related to this on North Pender 
Island; 
 A member of the community questioned the driver for change of private 
dock rezoning and concerns of land value loss; 
 A member of the community asked about multi-level home vs. slab 
construction for maximum floor area; 
 A member of the community encouraged catchment for water in bylaws.  
 Confirmation was provided that unlivable space of less than 1.5M is not to 
be included in the calculated maximum floor area;   
 Lot area vs floor area of a dwelling was clarified; 
 Multi-family dwellings at Driftwood Centre was raised; 
 Average cost of rezoning applications and time frame involved was asked:  
currently the cost for a rezoning application is $4400 and can take 
approximately 9-18 months;   
 A member of the community observed long processes involved for 
regulation changes and supported improvements;  
 Recommendation was made for future round table and hybrid meetings; 
 Question was asked about tiny homes, issues with Building Code were 
discussed and reference to BC Housing document for more information;  

 
North Pender Special Meeting (CIM) 
Electronic Meeting Minutes 
March 12, 2022 ADOPTED Page 4 of 4 
 
 A member of the community encouraged the LTC to continue with Zoom for 
future meetings; 
 A member of the community asked for the rationale for the zoning change 
from W1 to W3 and if the LTC consider a Development Permit Area; 
 Concern raised that it is not a one size fits all approach for rezoning W1 to 
W3 and lack of supporting OCP policies. In addition docks are now built to a 
higher standard and the rezoning process does not address derelict docks 
and maintenance; and  
 Request for all waterfront property owners to be mailed letters notifying 
them of the potential zoning changes. 
Chair Patrick encouraged anyone to send comments/questions in writing if not available 
for in person meetings to ensure it’s on record: southinfo@islandstrust.bc.ca. 
Chair Patrick expressed appreciation to staff and the members of the public who came 
out to support and attend this meeting. 
4. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 11:56 am. 
 
_________________________ 
Laura Patrick, Chair 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
________________________ 
Jennifer Kucherka, Recorder