South Pender Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, May 6, 2022

[0:00:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): Good

[0:00:00] Voice 3: morning,

[0:00:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): everyone. It's really terrific to see so many of you here today.

[0:00:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): And for those of you that don't know me, I'm Peter Luckum. I'm elected on Thetis Island.

[0:00:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I'm chair of Islands Trust Council. And I've been the chair of the South Pender Island.

[0:00:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): I've been chairs of all these islands. And I've been chair of South Pender.

[0:00:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): Some of you will remember me from those days, and it's a real pleasure for me to be here.

[0:00:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): So just in terms of protocol and process, I'm going to start with acknowledging that

[0:00:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): we're here on Coast Salish Territory.

[0:00:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): And where I live on Thetis is in Penelope and L'Aix Territory.

[0:00:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): And here, of course, is WSANAC and the Seyot and many other nations, there's 29 or 30 nations

[0:00:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): that we refer to when we talk about the Coast Salish Sea and the Allens Trust area.

[0:01:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): I just want to make a note that I didn't have any meetings yesterday,

[0:01:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): but yesterday was, of course, missing women and children, and that was a day of mourning.

[0:01:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): I just want to recognize that and respect that.

[0:01:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): many of you might have seen grand dresses hanging in places that you hadn't seen them before and

[0:01:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): it's a solemn very solemn time and a part of the history that we need to remember and be thoughtful

[0:01:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): of as we advance and and change some of our our practices and reflect on on that but indeed every

[0:01:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): day when i wake up on thetis i think about living here and what a rich culturally rich place

[0:01:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): historically rich place this is and there's lots of opportunity to learn

[0:01:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): more about the people that have been here for time immemorial and encourage

[0:01:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): everybody to do so so just want to say you're probably some of you are

[0:02:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): surprised to see me here Laura Patrick has been your chair for the

[0:02:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): for the term from Salt Spring Island and she has resigned for personal reasons

[0:02:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): and that represented a bit of a challenge resigned from the salt from

[0:02:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): himself kind of LTC she's still active trustee and active on other LTC's that

[0:02:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): was a challenging moment to determine that that was something that needed to

[0:02:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): be supported and so we we shuffled the vice chairs in fact people think that

[0:02:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): the chair has a whole bunch of authority and power but one of the very few things

[0:02:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): that I actually have power over is appointing vice chairs to chair LTC's

[0:02:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so to disrupt the organization the least, I appointed myself to be your chair, and Laura Patrick is kindly taking over one of the other LTCs,

[0:02:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): Leski Island, that I was chairing before and is going to be chairing there.

[0:02:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I hope that you find that satisfactory, and the trustees have been informed of this, and there was public notice that went out just the other day.

[0:03:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): and i apologize for the lateness of that um but these are such busy times um with covid and

[0:03:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): everything as well as all the other activities are going on and we ran short of time but the notice

[0:03:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): did go out it was even late by my my standards and so uh again thank you all for being here

[0:03:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): um so i'll just call the meeting to order and certainly i think there's no introductions

[0:03:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): is necessary uh steve wright and cameron thorne both your elected trustees here and of course

[0:03:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): robert kuchima regional planning manager and kim stockdale thank you kim that is your island planner

[0:03:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): here so i want to thank you all um the technology challenges um are one of the things um i'll stop

[0:03:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): talking in a minute and we can get on with the meeting but just to say

[0:03:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): that through the pandemic

[0:03:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): we were thrust into the electronic era to do zoom meetings and now that we're

[0:04:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): back in person I'm pleased to see so many of you wearing masks I don't wear I

[0:04:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): would like to wear a mask but I don't so that you can hear me more clearly but

[0:04:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): we're thrust into the electronic era and now we're coming out of that pandemic

[0:04:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): phase and having to struggle with how we're going to continue to deliver what

[0:04:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): people have come to expect in terms of electronic format meeting as well as in

[0:04:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): in-person meetings and we you know we don't have the budget for a council

[0:04:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): didn't approve budget for it in order to facilitate the technology and the map

[0:04:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): are necessary so that responsibilities fall into the chairs and although I come

[0:04:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): with an IT background one has no control over Wi-Fi and salt towers and all that

[0:04:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): kind of stuff just inadequate I'm sure that you're all familiar with that so

[0:04:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): we're challenged with this we don't have a minute taker here I'm hoping that the

[0:04:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): recording that I'm doing is running and they will be able to transcribe that I

[0:04:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): know that staff will take note of the votes and motions and the important

[0:04:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): factors and comments but not my best situation we have reached out I think to

[0:05:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): staff so maybe in a break we might get ourselves properly connected but at the

[0:05:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): moment we're in this situation here so in terms of the agenda now let's move on

[0:05:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'll just ask if there's any we've got an agenda in front of us and I'll ask if

[0:05:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): Is this any new or other items that need to be removed for any particular reason from the trustees?

[0:05:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): Any new items?

[0:05:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): Not for now.

[0:05:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): And staff, any new items?

[0:05:31] Voice 9: We've received a number of public hearing submissions after the closure yesterday at 4.30,

[0:05:37] Voice 9: so there are a number of piece of correspondence that the LDC has received in the last few hours to do that.

[0:05:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): Right.

[0:05:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): and you know you know the Alan's trust is kind of we try to be as relaxed

[0:05:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): around the legislations and rules as we possibly can by and yet adhere to the

[0:05:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): legislative requirements of them you know the public hearing process is a

[0:06:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): very delicate a legislated moment in the process of creating bylaws and so indeed

[0:06:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): Indeed, 4.30 was the closure of written responses to the local trust committee.

[0:06:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): And anything further needs to come in person to the meeting up until the close of the meeting.

[0:06:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): And then, of course, at that point, we don't receive any new information.

[0:06:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I'll go over that in a bit more detail later on.

[0:06:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): But that said, I would suggest that the trustees, if you haven't, and myself, I haven't because they just came in this morning,

[0:06:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): Let me just take a moment to look at those last couple of pieces of correspondence so

[0:06:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): that the people that are late, how many of us are late for things?

[0:06:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): Me on

[0:06:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): a regular basis.

[0:06:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so let's just take a moment to reflect on those if you don't mind before we go into

[0:06:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): or before we finally come out of the public hearing process so that those voices can be

[0:06:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): heard at this table.

[0:06:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): And if that's all right with you, I would proceed in that fashion.

[0:06:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): Trustees just looking to their nod on that.

[0:07:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): And

[0:07:01] Voice 5: I did read them.

[0:07:01] Voice 5: Yeah.

[0:07:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, great.

[0:07:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): I haven't had a chance because I've been traveling.

[0:07:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah.

[0:07:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah.

[0:07:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): Gotcha.

[0:07:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): All right.

[0:07:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): So then, so there's two, some additional correspondence.

[0:07:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): Is it on 122 or 123 or both?

[0:07:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): Both.

[0:07:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay.

[0:07:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): Very good then.

[0:07:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): So let's just take that into consideration as we move forward.

[0:07:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so if I'm not seeing anything else added to the agenda, in fact, that really is just

[0:07:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): part of the public hearing record and that will become part of the record, I presume,

[0:07:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): zoom uh uh kim once we get into that section so then i'll just take it then the job to be

[0:07:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): the agenda be adopted as presented um so we'll begin with uh trustee reports and uh um

[0:07:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): often the islands go one trustee this time and another trustee next time so i'll let you

[0:07:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): lead as you see fit go

[0:07:51] Voice 17: ahead steve uh well the only thing that's uh that's sort of uh

[0:07:56] Voice 17: come up is I think everybody will agree that certainly since I've moved here a

[0:08:03] Voice 17: number of years ago we've never seen so much development and and building going

[0:08:10] Voice 17: on at the same time I mean it's unprecedented as far as I'm concerned I

[0:08:15] Voice 17: was in the construction industry here for 40 some odd years and it's I've

[0:08:18] Voice 17: never seen it so busy now I have asked I did request staff if we could be

[0:08:24] Voice 17: referred applications that they received prior to approval so we could comment on

[0:08:32] Voice 17: it because we have local trustees have a far better knowledge of the properties

[0:08:37] Voice 17: and the land than staff in Victoria do and one instance is that I got a call

[0:08:45] Voice 17: from a neighbor saying that they were starting to excavate and preparing for

[0:08:50] Voice 17: or blasting of a property that held an eagle's nest on it and of course under the provincial

[0:08:57] Voice 17: government of BC wildlife no one is allowed to disturb any nest particularly when it is active

[0:09:02] Voice 17: of a raptor and I contacted staff and staff was unaware that this nest existed so I got

[0:09:11] Voice 17: David Manning who is the recognized raptor guy on north and south Bender Island has been

[0:09:17] Voice 17: following and studying raptor nests and their locations for over 15 years on the

[0:09:22] Voice 17: islands and he confirmed it was active that there likely was chicks in it and

[0:09:28] Voice 17: so staff contacted the owner and had that work delayed until such a time as

[0:09:35] Voice 17: those eaglets are are healthy enough but again that indicates why I think still

[0:09:44] Voice 17: it's important for trustees to know what applications are coming through the

[0:09:48] Voice 17: trust office and so I'd just like to request that staff take a look at that

[0:09:53] Voice 17: and how that can be done in some efficient manner even if it's for 48

[0:09:57] Voice 17: hours just so that if there is any outstanding issues that trustees

[0:10:00] Voice 17: recognize the staff are unaware of we can respond to accordingly and help you

[0:10:05] Voice 17: with your with your deliberations on whether to proceed on those applications or not i'll keep

[0:10:12] Voice 17: that short thanks

[0:10:13] Voice 5: thank you steve

[0:10:15] Voice 5: nothing nothing from me uh i mean the one thing that i would

[0:10:18] Voice 5: mention is it's an ongoing thing that people know about is just the ongoing work that we've been or

[0:10:23] Voice 5: dialogue that we've been undertaking with the ministry of transportation to try and get uh

[0:10:27] Voice 5: to convey as much information about timelines for uh construction of the dip still don't have a the

[0:10:33] Voice 5: clarity that that we hope for other than being told that things are going to be put out to tender

[0:10:38] Voice 5: fairly soon and that they expect to start construction i think that's somewhat doubtful

[0:10:42] Voice 5: given um some of the conversations that i know going on around design options so

[0:10:46] Voice 5: we'd certainly like to know when when that part of the road is going to be constructed and what

[0:10:50] Voice 5: the plan is but my concern is is that the timelines for starting are probably going to be

[0:10:56] Voice 5: longer than what we think I do understand that they are finally well I

[0:11:04] Voice 5: guess with the rains they of course put the restrictions back onto one car for

[0:11:08] Voice 5: green but the hope is that they can remove that again when the weather dries

[0:11:13] Voice 5: out here because we obviously as we can get into tourism season the the lineups

[0:11:17] Voice 5: are going to be even longer that there was record routinely now 16 plus cars

[0:11:23] Voice 5: waiting there so you know you're looking at a half an hour wait so we're keeping

[0:11:28] Voice 5: on that one as well very

[0:11:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): good I'm so from a chairs report don't have anything

[0:11:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): really significant to add locally but I'm certainly glad to be coming back to

[0:11:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): your island and enjoying your company and the interest in community and you

[0:11:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): know one of the most important things that I think that as a chair and a vice

[0:11:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): chair that you get to do is be involved in communities and learn so much

[0:11:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): and share so much and uh participate in that process so really happy to be here just uh the

[0:12:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): things that you might be interested in um council is coming up again june 21 22 23 that work is

[0:12:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): under preparation the agenda is still very um much in draft um the items that will be of interest to

[0:12:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): you is the phase three of the 2050 uh honest trust policy statement review and that process has come

[0:12:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): to conclusion and that all that data i think it's like 12 or 1500 submissions from people throughout

[0:12:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): the island's trust um we are analyzing the consultant is analyzing that and will be

[0:12:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): bringing that back to us and there'll be some early um sort of reporting at that council meeting

[0:12:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): um also the governance review that was concluded a few months back now that uh unfortunately didn't

[0:12:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): get its full attention at Council in March which was our budget session that

[0:12:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): will be coming back to us in June as well and there'll be a fulsome

[0:12:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): discussion there and I just want to comment as the chair of Trust Council

[0:13:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): that this report has some a number of opportunities for us to realize and look

[0:13:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): at and consider moving forward it's a complex report there's lots of detail to

[0:13:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): be considered there but I just want you to know that we are definitely looking

[0:13:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): at that with open eyes and objectively trying not to be defensive of course

[0:13:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): when you get a report card people are calling it you want to be defensive a

[0:13:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): little bit but we're looking at it very objectively and there's definitely

[0:13:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): opportunities for us to pursue and I can I can tell you that we will be pursuing

[0:13:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): some of those for sure the Anchorage file I know that's a big issue here on

[0:13:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): south pender i met with the port of metro vancouver a couple of weeks ago now fairly high

[0:13:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): level meeting to talk about the engagement that the port has been told by the federal government

[0:13:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): to to undertake with respect to efficiencies um at the port uh and indeed in respect of the impacts

[0:14:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): of vessels anchoring in the salish sea um i'm afraid to say that a lot of the language is about

[0:14:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): efficiencies and economies and benefits to the port, which is certainly important.

[0:14:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I've always said that, of course, the port and the shipping is important to the national interest of the country.

[0:14:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): But I've also said that the sea and the islands within are also important to the nation as well.

[0:14:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): And we need to find a way to balance this in a respectful way.

[0:14:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): So anyway, Claire Frader and I met with them and had quite a long conversation, talking

[0:14:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): about the 20 plus years, 25, 30 years plus.

[0:14:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): Those of you that remember when the gypsum ship used to unload out in Plumper Sound here,

[0:14:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): my father, and those of you that remember my father living on North Pender, he used

[0:14:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): to phone me up and complain about that long before I was a trustee, about how awful it

[0:15:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): was, the plumes of dust that would come over the island.

[0:15:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so, you know, this industrial activity has been going on for so long, so we had an opportunity to reacquaint them with the Penders, Bumper Sound, and of course the interests throughout the Salish Sea now.

[0:15:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): Somebody said to me earlier today that there was three or four freighters out here.

[0:15:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well, in the region surrounding Thetis Island, where I live, we have about ten right now, including container ships, which we were always promised would never be anchored here.

[0:15:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): and I know that you've seen them in plumper sound in the past and it's just

[0:15:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): unacceptable and it needs to be sorted but anyway they I think it was an

[0:15:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): election promise on the part of the federal government some reason that they

[0:15:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): were going to look at this and so they are looking at it but it's going to be a

[0:15:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): little bit of a journey and I'm not sure what the outcomes gonna look like there

[0:15:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's it for me I could go on for ages but I won't so the town hall portion is

[0:15:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): now your opportunity to speak to us about issues often so many people here

[0:16:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): we're not used to seeing so many people in here in the past often we break it up

[0:16:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): into if those folks that want to talk about issues that are on today's agenda

[0:16:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): those issues that are not on today's agenda but are in stream or other issues

[0:16:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): that are within the island's trust jurisdiction we the LTC is more than

[0:16:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): happy to hear from you so maybe just get a show of hands so i can see how many people wish to

[0:16:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): address the local trust committee today of course keep in mind we do have two uh public hearings

[0:16:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): coming up and that's your opportunity to speak to bylaws number 122 and 123 so let's put that focus

[0:16:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): at that time on those topics so i'll just ask if there's anything else here today we do have

[0:16:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): that alr application on today's

[0:16:50] Voice 5: one question chair just for clarification so we would be at the at

[0:16:55] Voice 5: section 5 the town hall and questions which I believe is what you're referring

[0:16:58] Voice 5: to now and then in advance of the public hearings of course we have community

[0:17:03] Voice 5: information meetings preceding that so I guess my point being is we're obviously

[0:17:08] Voice 5: here to listen to people but the bear in mind that the town hall is obviously one

[0:17:13] Voice 5: venue but there's also the second venue to be able to ask questions during the

[0:17:15] Voice 5: community information

[0:17:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): meeting public hearing and I'll go over those but I

[0:17:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): would say reserve your questions and comments about 122 123 for that section because then we'll

[0:17:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): record it separately um but so i'll just ask generally are there any other questions today

[0:17:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): for the ltc so i'm seeing uh two or three hands somebody's pointing somewhere else um but uh this

[0:17:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): gentleman in the front row and i saw you back there thank you go ahead sir your name for the

[0:17:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): John

[0:17:45] Voice 16: Koharchuk, 9925 Southlands Drive. Is there an emergency preparedness plan related to the dip if there was catastrophic failure in the road?

[0:17:56] Voice 17: That's a good question. They've been a little nebulous in any of my questions towards that and they have stated that if there is an emergency and evacuation is required,

[0:18:07] Voice 17: then simply none of the rules that are posted apply and everybody can just get out any which way they can.

[0:18:14] Voice 17: it's not it's not probably the best plan but I guess it's the only one they got

[0:18:19] Voice 17: because we only have the one road and it'll be one lane traffic so as long as

[0:18:24] Voice 17: everybody's got fuel in the tank and they're patient we should be able to

[0:18:27] Voice 17: clear out and as long as the emergency isn't too huge okay

[0:18:33] Voice 5: Cameron

[0:18:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): you want to chime in on anything there

[0:18:37] Voice 5: no I think Steve said it I mean we've asked in

[0:18:42] Voice 5: conversations with with MOT have raised the point about you know just I mean

[0:18:48] Voice 5: there's a couple things is one is why we got to this point I mean they've been

[0:18:51] Voice 5: patching that road for a long long time and and you know it's unfortunately

[0:18:55] Voice 5: coming to a bit of a crisis before people are actually putting things you

[0:18:58] Voice 5: know before they're actually come out with a plan to deal with it you don't

[0:19:02] Voice 5: get a clear answer as to why it was neglected for so long but but clearly we

[0:19:06] Voice 5: have a problem on our hand now so I don't think I have a lot to add on what

[0:19:09] Voice 5: what Steve has said sure

[0:19:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): maybe just from a higher level perspective those of you

[0:19:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): don't know me I'm deputy chief on my fire department on Thetis and and indeed

[0:19:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): those that an incident like that would fall to a provincial emergency plan per

[0:19:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): se or at least action and of course the fire department your local fire

[0:19:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): department South Pender and North Pender would be engaged in

[0:19:34] Voice 3: to

[0:19:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): some extent

[0:19:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): although that's not their role either but law and order always prevails

[0:19:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): common sense prevails so if you're safe and secure where you are often you're

[0:19:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): better sheltering in place and and in fact in that in this in this time now

[0:19:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): where the road is possible make sure you've got good supplies on hand of

[0:19:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): course us Islanders right we all have that but let's just be conscious of

[0:19:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): having those emergency supplies on hand making sure your fuel tank is full and

[0:20:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): and stuff like that and if you're if you're able to shelter in place and you're safe and secure

[0:20:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's a really good place for you to be as opposed to being unsheltered somewhere else and

[0:20:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): needing to get home and make sure you got your meds with you and you know all those natural

[0:20:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): things that we all need so just from a emergency i've been incident command where the roads have

[0:20:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): been cut off and uh you know suit gets put on somewhere and and the fire department goes around

[0:20:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): and does health checks on folks and all that kind of stuff so um but that's a serious consideration

[0:20:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): so um is

[0:20:34] Voice 18: this cat is this thing doing anything yes it's

[0:20:37] Voice 18: recording it's recording now okay yeah

[0:20:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): because we need to record the meeting so that we can provide it to others just looking for

[0:20:42] Voice 18: space for more chairs

[0:20:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): cuddle up everybody okay so i got a question on the back first i

[0:20:49] Voice 7: have a hand

[0:20:50] Voice 7: up first and then i'll go here the emergency uh this is pertaining to the emergency program

[0:20:55] Voice 7: I used to be the director of emergency services, and we all have neighborhood contacts, and

[0:21:03] Voice 7: your neighborhood contact, I don't know if there's maybe three or four.

[0:21:07] Voice 7: Yeah,

[0:21:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): local emergency response neighborhoods, yeah.

[0:21:09] Voice 7: And there's a person in charge there, and they should have meetings with you and go

[0:21:14] Voice 7: over your escape plans.

[0:21:17] Voice 7: I was the neighborhood contact for 82 and Jane is 81 and so we knew where we

[0:21:26] Voice 7: would gather in case there was emergency to get off the island so there's that is

[0:21:32] Voice 7: listed there the fire hall here has emergency provisions to feed 60 and

[0:21:40] Voice 7: they're all dried dry food so it can be as a reception center and look after

[0:21:46] Voice 7: people and direct them. I'm no longer in that, but the person should be taking over, and is, yes, so I hope that helps.

[0:21:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): That's helpful indeed, there's lots of things in place. They're

[0:21:59] Voice 7: not going to be

[0:21:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): high and dry in the 20th century, but common sense and law still prevails.

[0:22:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): Jane, did you have a question?

[0:22:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah,

[0:22:09] Voice 11: I just want to, in terms of looking at the rest of the agenda, just to be clear, so the town hall's questions are, if we have some questions about the proposed changes to our OCP land use by-law, that's probably going to come to the community information section.

[0:22:23] Voice 11: I

[0:22:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): would reserve those for

[0:22:24] Voice 11: then. I'm not going to cut you off if you

[0:22:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): feel it necessary, but I would say

[0:22:28] Voice 11: let's go back to that.

[0:22:29] Voice 11: And so based on that, and also for people who speak at the community information meeting session,

[0:22:35] Voice 11: I think it would be important for them to know if this is how it normally goes,

[0:22:40] Voice 11: that despite what you said at the community information meeting,

[0:22:43] Voice 11: that in terms of public hearing, you need to speak to the public hearing

[0:22:47] Voice 11: to have your views recorded as part of the public hearing.

[0:22:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): I will go over that

[0:22:53] Voice 11: when we get there.

[0:22:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): Just

[0:22:53] Voice 11: to be clear.

[0:22:54] Voice 11: Yeah, and then I'm also a bit concerned because we've got some pretty big changes and topics and you can see this is a pretty

[0:23:01] Voice 11: big turn out

[0:23:01] Voice 11: for this island and

[0:23:03] Voice 11: ten minutes

[0:23:05] Voice 11: for the first community information and

[0:23:09] Voice 11: Fifteen minutes for the second. I mean it does sound and it looks a little unreasonable

[0:23:13] Voice 11: So I'm hoping you have some plan that the meeting can go on until all the questions are answered

[0:23:19] Voice 11: and then based on that you have a full local press committee meeting after this

[0:23:24] Voice 11: so it's such a long agenda and I would have hoped that because we have such

[0:23:29] Voice 11: important proposals before us that we would have had two separate meetings

[0:23:34] Voice 11: so that there would have been time to give thought to this and I always say

[0:23:38] Voice 11: this about the community information meeting, those should be separate

[0:23:42] Voice 11: separate from the public hearing because it gives the impression that you're racing through the

[0:23:49] Voice 11: community information meeting and going right into the public hearing so why do we even say

[0:23:53] Voice 11: anything at the community information meeting because it looks like we're probably going to

[0:23:57] Voice 11: be in court if that's what happens so just to be clear about that and I hope this meeting doesn't

[0:24:03] Voice 11: keep going on if it is a well-being there might be a plan to break it up.

[0:24:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): I expect that given the

[0:24:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): timing we will certainly have a recess in there probably between community

[0:24:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): information meeting and public hearing but I'm not sure where the notion of 10

[0:24:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): minutes has come from because it's actually 30 minutes for each of the

[0:24:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): sessions and 35 minutes and 40 minutes for the public hearing portion so but

[0:24:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): you know that said those are only guidelines and to be quite honest we are

[0:24:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): going to be here for as long as is necessary and or we will recess and

[0:24:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): reconvene another meeting everybody needs to be here just

[0:24:40] Voice 11: to be clear the 10 minutes is on your

[0:24:41] Voice 11: agenda the

[0:24:45] Voice 9: timeline sorry if i made sure the timelines as i mentioned on this year are

[0:24:50] Voice 9: incorrect unfortunately our planning assistant picked off the wrong agenda so the timelines are

[0:24:56] Voice 9: incorrect but the flow of the meeting is correct thank you so

[0:25:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): mine says 30 minutes for the well

[0:25:02] Voice 5: well maybe you've got a different version because mine says 1135 to 1145 so i understand what what

[0:25:07] Voice 5: change well

[0:25:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): there you go it

[0:25:08] Voice 5: would be yeah so

[0:25:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): there's a tip from the chair the electronic

[0:25:12] Voice 5: version appears to be out of date okay

[0:25:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): i always download and re-download the final version before

[0:25:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): i come to the meeting because it does change so so that's a typo so that's great thank you

[0:25:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): I didn't know that I wondered where that was coming from okay so was there other speakers

[0:25:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): that wish to speak to any of the topics other than bylaws 122 123 otherwise we'll just jump

[0:25:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): into that sir

[0:25:43] Voice 19: I'm just wondering if you will address the resignation of chair Patrick I mean

[0:25:51] Voice 19: I mean, it is expressed some concerns about the operation.

[0:25:55] Voice 19: So I'm just wondering, you know,

[0:25:58] Voice 19: we're now faced in a situation where the bylaw 122

[0:26:05] Voice 19: is that was advanced to first reading

[0:26:07] Voice 19: is done so by one trustee here.

[0:26:11] Voice 19: And so I think it's, we need to understand why,

[0:26:16] Voice 19: you know, why we're in this situation

[0:26:20] Voice 19: where you with all due respect are unfamiliar with the issues and are new at it today so you

[0:26:28] Voice 19: can't possibly be expected to know the massed amount of information that's gone on and when

[0:26:36] Voice 19: first reading was taken last in March, trustee Wright was not present so that's why I think it

[0:26:47] Voice 19: needs to be explained a little bit why we can proceed with this so rapidly um

[0:26:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's good it's

[0:26:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): a good question and i want to respect the question but i also want to respect christy patrick vice

[0:27:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): chair patrick and um the explanation for her resignation is um of a personal nature and and

[0:27:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I want to respect that.

[0:27:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): We have attempted in every way possible, myself included, to try to provide for something of a seamless transition.

[0:27:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): But I completely understand what you said there about a single trustee now represents what the decision was that was made earlier.

[0:27:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): However, it is a decision of the body.

[0:27:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): and if trustee Wright wants to address his absence from that meeting and has

[0:27:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): concerns about that I would want to leave that to trustee Wright to express

[0:27:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): certainly it alters and changes the timing and the sense of security of

[0:27:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): feelings that you might have about it but I've got to tell you I spent the

[0:27:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): last ten days not actively the whole time but I have reviewed as much of the

[0:28:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): the materials I humanly possibly could and I've also had conversations with

[0:28:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): trustee Patrick and staff about where we're at and I do have a little

[0:28:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): familiarity with the chair here in the past but I'm certainly not up to date

[0:28:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): with every ounce of it and I will be looking and thinking very carefully

[0:28:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): about the process and in fact you know this is a good opportunity for me to say

[0:28:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): that as the chair of your LTC and absolutely I get the outside chair you

[0:28:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): know I come from another island I certainly am familiar with the island as

[0:28:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): much as I could be being a frequent visitor to the island but in my role as

[0:28:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): chair I look very closely at process and policy and I try to represent all of the

[0:28:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): voices that I possibly can everything that I've heard in correspondence to the

[0:28:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): LTC from an object very objective perspective and so I will be definitely

[0:29:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): thinking about that process and and ensuring that we're being respectful of

[0:29:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): your public input your interest in this and I certainly have the sense that this

[0:29:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): could go slower but all things could often go slower and so we have to look

[0:29:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): look at the process so I appreciate you raising it I think that it's a it's an

[0:29:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): unfortunate circumstance it brings this about but I will do my utmost best to

[0:29:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): serve you as possible as humanly possible as I can and of course it

[0:29:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): requires collaboration from the LTC as well and I have the support from the LTC

[0:29:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): for moving forward and advancing this but I can commit to you I'll be as

[0:29:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): respectful as they can be in the back then just

[0:29:53] Voice 15: wondering why this is clearly

[0:29:58] Voice 15: very sensitive

[0:30:00] Voice 15: issue here why is this bylaw change not put forward to a vote of the people who

[0:30:07] Voice 15: are affected by it why

[0:30:08] Voice 15: can't we in this democratic society vote on something

[0:30:13] Voice 15: like this instead of having a board who doesn't even necessarily live here

[0:30:16] Voice 15: decide on something that's going to affect everybody who does live here two

[0:30:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): of your elected representatives do live here and the chair facilitates the

[0:30:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): meeting and brings policy and legislation i understand that

[0:30:32] Voice 15: sir however i'm not talking

[0:30:34] Voice 15: about the process in that respect i'm talking about an extremely important issue that's going

[0:30:40] Voice 15: to affect everybody's lives here and i think something like this more importantly should

[0:30:47] Voice 15: be brought to a vote instead of arbitrarily decided by people who are not affected by it

[0:30:52] Voice 15: Well,

[0:30:54] Voice 17: I think if I can, if you're going to talk about the democratic process and democracy,

[0:30:59] Voice 17: democracy only ensures that you get to have a say, it doesn't guarantee you get what you

[0:31:02] Voice 17: want in the first place.

[0:31:04] Voice 17: The second thing is that you have voted.

[0:31:06] Voice 17: You voted for two trustees.

[0:31:09] Voice 17: And if you're not happy with the decisions that trustees are making, whether it's trustees

[0:31:14] Voice 17: in Amherst Trust, whether it's your MLAs, whether it's your MPs, it's all the same process.

[0:31:18] Voice 17: I understand that.

[0:31:19] Voice 15: that certain damage that can be done by those people during that one period of time that they're elected before we can...

[0:31:25] Voice 17: Well,

[0:31:26] Voice 15: then you'll have an

[0:31:28] Voice 17: option to make at the next election,

[0:31:33] Voice 17: and you can decide what you want to do with that at that time.

[0:31:36] Voice 17: But this is a process that's the same through all of the nation,

[0:31:39] Voice 17: and I don't think that the democratic process has been reflected through much of the history of Canada is going to change.

[0:31:51] Voice 15: I understand

[0:31:52] Voice 15: that sir, but why don't you consider that this issue that is this important, don't you think it should be brought forward as a vote?

[0:32:02] Voice 15: So,

[0:32:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): I don't want to, you know, it's one of the hard things is restraining debate.

[0:32:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): However, I think we are creatures of the problems and we have inherited and work under the legislation

[0:32:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): that is provided through the Honest Trust Act.

[0:32:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): And the Honest Trust Act does not provide the opportunity for referendum or plebiscite

[0:32:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): or whatever you want to call it the Steve has said the trustees are

[0:32:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): empowered to make these decisions through public consultation so and what

[0:32:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): I want to say what's critically important to me is I'm going to ask you

[0:32:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): to restate that message when we get to the public hearing part so it becomes

[0:32:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): part of that record in the public hearing part because it's it's I don't

[0:32:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): want it to appear that your message is falling on deaf ears because we do hear

[0:33:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): that and from different things around the islands and whether or not there's

[0:33:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): any consideration for amendments to the islands track to facilitate that quite

[0:33:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): honestly I don't know the province would necessarily support it but nonetheless I

[0:33:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): think that that voice needs to be heard and I am hearing it and would ask you

[0:33:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): just to repeat that and get to the public hearing thank you for speaking up

[0:33:21] Voice 1: I get the sense of feelings here that perhaps the people of South Pender do

[0:33:28] Voice 1: not feel like the trustee chairs are listening to what we want to do and what

[0:33:33] Voice 1: we feel we have a right to do with our land yeah well

[0:33:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): let us actually we're

[0:33:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): kind of morphing into the community information public hearing part let's

[0:33:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): move into the community hearing and let's test you know I'm not I'm not

[0:33:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): joking let's test this I'm here to listen that's my commitment to you and I

[0:33:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): can only commit for myself but I certainly believe that the LTC is

[0:33:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): responsible to listen to you so let's jump into this and see how it goes and

[0:34:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): when you get to I got I'll talk introduce public community information

[0:34:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): and public hearing how I see it but I'm also flexible yeah

[0:34:08] Voice 12: just housekeeping you

[0:34:11] Voice 12: said I first of all I think the venue is way too small and I know a few people

[0:34:16] Voice 12: who didn't come today because they didn't want to be in such a small enclosed area and before

[0:34:22] Voice 12: we used to have the meetings in the fire hall the trucks were moved out and we would be in there so

[0:34:27] Voice 12: there would be space and i think that that should have happened today um and the other point is you

[0:34:32] Voice 12: said policy that you rely on so you're a new chair um policy and legislation and but you didn't

[0:34:41] Voice 12: mention what the people present to you is that like the third thing or no you're saying

[0:34:48] Voice 12: you make your vote your vote will be based on policy and legislation because that doesn't include

[0:34:54] Voice 12: what the people are telling you no

[0:34:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): so the other thing that i can say is is that policy and process

[0:35:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): are important um but also i do listen to all the voices in the room those that are here those the

[0:35:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): THE TREES AND THE WILD FLOWERS THAT DON'T HAVE A VOICE, AND I EVEN SO ABSOLUTELY, THAT

[0:35:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): IS THE PART OF MY RESPONSIBILITY THAT I TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY, AND I'VE READ ALL THE MATERIALS,

[0:35:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'VE SEEN ALL THE POINTS, AND I HAVE A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS FOR THE TRUSTEES AS WELL.

[0:35:28] Voice 12: And the third point was this, is when I look at the public hearing, which I got, this is

[0:35:37] Voice 12: what I've got, emailed to me, and what it says with respect to the correspondence, because I sent something in this morning, and what it says, written submissions are welcome up until the conclusion of the public hearing and can be emailed to, and then there's the email address.

[0:35:56] Voice 12: so I sent my correspondence in this morning thinking well this is good

[0:36:00] Voice 12: because it's done

[0:36:01] Voice 12: and so there was no mention so

[0:36:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's

[0:36:08] Voice 12: what I have well

[0:36:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's a great

[0:36:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): caption so we'll have to fix that yeah we

[0:36:13] Voice 17: quite importantly was

[0:36:14] Voice 17: read I

[0:36:14] Voice 17: read your we

[0:36:15] Voice 5: heard your emails

[0:36:16] Voice 17: we found it this

[0:36:17] Voice 17: morning violence we didn't

[0:36:18] Voice 17: pay any attention to the

[0:36:19] Voice 11: that's a

[0:36:28] Voice 17: different subject we'll talk about that

[0:36:29] Voice 17: later

[0:36:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): the thing is we're

[0:36:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): laughing he'll be disciplined until he appears to polish

[0:36:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): and if I would love to get into this but I'm seeing I think did you speak once

[0:36:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): already no I did not just

[0:36:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): asked about the microphone so let's go to you and

[0:36:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): and then I'll come back.

[0:36:48] Voice 13: It's Audrey Green, Pender Island.

[0:36:50] Voice 13: And at the last public meeting,

[0:36:53] Voice 13: I addressed the fact that we're in COVID

[0:36:56] Voice 13: and could we meet in the fire hall with the trucks out

[0:37:00] Voice 13: and Ms. Patrick acknowledged that

[0:37:03] Voice 13: and that is in the minutes that,

[0:37:08] Voice 13: what is it, the Islands Trust minutes.

[0:37:10] Voice 13: Last night, I emailed both trustees to ask them again

[0:37:15] Voice 13: if we could move the fire trucks out.

[0:37:17] Voice 13: I didn't read it. It was late.

[0:37:19] Voice 13: But I'm among the mean compromised.

[0:37:21] Voice 13: I really shouldn't be in here.

[0:37:24] Voice 13: And there are other people, like somebody said,

[0:37:27] Voice 13: was it Shelley said, there were people here

[0:37:29] Voice 13: that wanted to come this morning that would not come to this meeting.

[0:37:33] Voice 13: So I'm going to request again, if this ever happens again,

[0:37:36] Voice 13: and we're in COVID, we have to be further apart with the door open.

[0:37:42] Voice 13: It's ridiculous.

[0:37:43] Voice 5: Let's open

[0:37:43] Voice 5: these doors if people feel strongly about it.

[0:37:45] Voice 5: Let's open the doors.

[0:37:47] Voice 5: That's a

[0:37:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): good suggestion.

[0:37:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well, honest to goodness.

[0:37:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): What is

[0:37:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): that, a Band-Aid?

[0:37:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): Sorry.

[0:37:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): No, bear with me for a moment, okay?

[0:37:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm listening.

[0:38:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I don't disagree with you.

[0:38:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I do agree with you that there's some concerns here,

[0:38:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): the number of people, the space, COVID, all this kind of stuff.

[0:38:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I'm just going to simply ask the question, trustees,

[0:38:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): should we, given that there's other people

[0:38:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): that do want to participate today i want to acknowledge that too um do we want to adjourn

[0:38:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): this meeting and reschedule another meeting in a in a more appropriate place for this

[0:38:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): well

[0:38:30] Voice 17: i i was not present uh at the last uh meeting um

[0:38:39] Voice 13: and so this was a meeting way back

[0:38:41] Voice 13: when laura patrick was here that last meeting yes so um

[0:38:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): i'd like to maintain some order and

[0:38:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): let's keep this who has the floor sorry speaking that's okay yeah

[0:38:52] Voice 17: so the March

[0:38:53] Voice 17: meeting I was not present I could not attend so I did have concerns about by

[0:38:59] Voice 17: law 122 I sent it in a note to staff in the LTC it was acknowledged but it was

[0:39:07] Voice 17: not discussed there's a couple of things that concerns I did have that I didn't

[0:39:12] Voice 17: get a chance to to discuss I'm not concerned particularly about giving

[0:39:18] Voice 17: first reading because that simply acknowledges the fact that there's a

[0:39:22] Voice 17: piece of paper for us to discuss it is does not necessarily mean that it's

[0:39:25] Voice 17: approved in principle or that any decisions have to meet it simply

[0:39:29] Voice 17: recognizes bylaw 122 is up for discussion within the community actually

[0:39:35] Voice 17: no

[0:39:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): Steve I'm gonna just tell it kind of point of order well okay that's all

[0:39:38] Voice 17: right because i had a

[0:39:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): specific question with response to what i heard from members of the

[0:39:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): public and in fact well i

[0:39:45] Voice 17: think there was

[0:39:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): some applause should

[0:39:46] Voice 17: we continue this meeting today

[0:39:49] Voice 17: okay um no you can adjourn it as far as i can say if you want we'll have it we'll have another

[0:39:53] Voice 17: meeting uh call a special meeting within two weeks and we'll have another venue

[0:39:57] Voice 17: and um we'll we'll reconvene and and carry on so

[0:40:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): i i'm sure the staff have their own set of

[0:40:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): dilemmas here to speak to you but I want to hear from Cameron Thorne and then I'm

[0:40:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): going to go to Robert Kujima to ask him about what that potential might look

[0:40:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): like and so I want to respect what I'm hearing here and indeed there's too many

[0:40:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): people in this room. Cameron?

[0:40:21] Voice 5: Well is it possible to move the fire trucks out of

[0:40:24] Voice 5: the out of the two bays and reconvene in there? No. We don't have

[0:40:30] Voice 5: keys for the

[0:40:30] Voice 5: fire truck? It

[0:40:31] Voice 18: involves having the qualifications to do so. Well

[0:40:35] Voice 5: we can call

[0:40:35] Voice 5: Stewart down

[0:40:36] Voice 5: there to to move the trucks I mean should

[0:40:39] Voice 18: happen within an hour or

[0:40:40] Voice 18: two well

[0:40:41] Voice 5: that's fine I'm

[0:40:42] Voice 18: just letting you know the reality I

[0:40:43] Voice 5: mean I think

[0:40:45] Voice 5: there's a lot of people I you know people people have traveled some

[0:40:49] Voice 5: distance to be here I'm you know rather than just okay let's let's let's cancel

[0:40:54] Voice 5: the meeting I I feel like we should make an effort to try and provide the

[0:41:00] Voice 5: certainty that people would expect from us in terms of when a meeting is

[0:41:04] Voice 5: scheduled it immediately held are we in fact not connected to the internet is it

[0:41:09] Voice 5: is it possible for those that want to look at at the meeting remotely that

[0:41:14] Voice 5: they can do so I certainly know that many other municipalities where meetings

[0:41:18] Voice 5: go on on a regular basis those that choose to go to the council chambers go

[0:41:22] Voice 5: and those that choose to watch it remotely do so from a different location

[0:41:26] Voice 5: and so rather we have been unable to

[0:41:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): connect are

[0:41:30] Voice 5: we are we unable to connect

[0:41:31] Voice 5: to the internet at this point in time well

[0:41:34] Voice 4: the uh device device that um the chair is not okay

[0:41:37] Voice 17: well may

[0:41:38] Voice 17: i suggest being recorded but not streamed i suggest we simply um cancel the public hearing

[0:41:43] Voice 17: and we can proceed with the rest of the agenda

[0:41:45] Voice 5: we could certainly do that but what difference does

[0:41:47] Voice 5: that make if people are concerned about about the the proximity of one another whether we're

[0:41:52] Voice 5: talking about

[0:41:53] Voice 17: we'll have to have the public hearing in a different venue well

[0:41:56] Voice 5: yeah but i

[0:41:56] Voice 5: guess what I'm saying is if the crux of the issue is the separation

[0:42:01] Voice 5: between individuals whether we're having a public hearing or whether we're

[0:42:05] Voice 5: talking about any other item we're still in the same physical space I don't see

[0:42:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): how

[0:42:10] Voice 5: that solves a problem.

[0:42:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): Let me bring up two points here and you know I'm

[0:42:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): sorry folks you know this is kind of a dis-administrated decision

[0:42:17] Voice 5: and it's a

[0:42:19] Voice 5: discussion

[0:42:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): amongst the trustees and that's just kind of how it works because

[0:42:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's the democratic process we live in but the assumption I think that Steve

[0:42:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): has put forward here is if we're not doing the public hearing today and for

[0:42:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): either of these or the community information meeting for you this many

[0:42:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): people that are in the room are not necessarily going to hang around for the

[0:42:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): other items on the agenda and so and that would be ostensibly the one

[0:42:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): application that we have for the agricultural lands and agricultural land

[0:42:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): Commission and referrals you've all seen the agenda but obviously not the sense

[0:42:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): of the topic that I think that so many of you are here for so there's that one

[0:42:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): thing but you know something I want to be completely honest with you and I've

[0:43:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): just been in your truck bay here the fire engines and one absolutely those

[0:43:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): machines should only be moved with the permission of the most senior person on

[0:43:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): the fire department that has that responsibility because if there's a

[0:43:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): Because if there's an event that happens, we're all going to be in the way.

[0:43:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): But honestly, there's a ton of hydrocarbons in that room that I don't want to breathe.

[0:43:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): So whether it's COVID or toxic air, I don't want to be breathing the air.

[0:43:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I'm saying that I'm sure there's others of you that would also not be comfortable with that.

[0:43:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): That said, it's very poor practice.

[0:43:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): We could potentially meet outside, but the acoustics are not going to be good, and it's not going to work that well.

[0:43:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): I understand Cameron you I've traveled a long way too and I know that you would

[0:43:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): want to see this advanced because this is also very time-consuming but it's not

[0:43:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): unusual it has happened on other LTC's I remember in Salts when we actually moved

[0:44:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): to two to two or three different venues over a period of a week or ten days when

[0:44:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): more and more people came to the meetings and so I'm I'm offering the

[0:44:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): opportunity for a motion if you want to take this action and Robert obviously

[0:44:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): you would manage it accordingly and to tell me

[0:44:21] Voice 4: what we would have to if you're

[0:44:23] Voice 4: deferring the public hearing and you don't have a time and a place and a date

[0:44:27] Voice 4: that it's going to reconvene we have to put it on your notice out yes be that

[0:44:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): time so that would be there's a period notification period necessary in order

[0:44:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): to facilitate that but we would just deal with that's the rush how long is

[0:44:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): that time

[0:44:41] Voice 4: um the notice has to be about two two week period so it would probably be three

[0:44:48] Voice 4: all

[0:44:48] Voice 3: right

[0:44:50] Voice 17: then i'll move that we defer the public hearing until

[0:44:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): a later date so um let's just be

[0:44:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): clear on the motion on public hearing community information meeting and public hearing i think

[0:45:01] Voice 17: that people want to hang around and carry on with the community information meeting we can do that

[0:45:07] Voice 17: if but I think prior to the next public hearing I think we're gonna have to have

[0:45:13] Voice 17: another public meeting and

[0:45:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): another community information yeah so I don't

[0:45:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): know that it would

[0:45:18] Voice 17: be value in doing easier with the members time okay fair

[0:45:20] Voice 17: enough yep the people are concerned about the

[0:45:23] Voice 17: closed proximity then I think the trust committee can carry on with their

[0:45:26] Voice 17: business I don't think

[0:45:27] Voice 17: anybody here is really interested in the Saturnas or

[0:45:29] Voice 17: main islands for referrals so that should probably clear up yeah I'll move

[0:45:34] Voice 17: to defer the public

[0:45:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): hearing so do i have a secondary for the motion

[0:45:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): both bylaws both

[0:45:43] Voice 3: bylaws yeah

[0:45:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): um what's always good practice to second the motion to get it

[0:45:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): on the table to discuss it and so um i will second it and uh trustee wright do you wish

[0:45:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): to speak to the motion no

[0:45:56] Voice 17: i think if there's a considerable concern in uh in the community and um

[0:46:02] Voice 17: I think we need to listen to it.

[0:46:04] Voice 17: I mean, I don't want to sit here and deny

[0:46:06] Voice 17: that we're not listening to the community

[0:46:07] Voice 17: and deny the community from being heard.

[0:46:11] Voice 17: So if that's my pleasure.

[0:46:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): And, of course, we'll have to find a larger venue.

[0:46:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yes.

[0:46:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): And not, honestly, not the truck.

[0:46:19] Voice 12: Well, in 2017, it was public service.

[0:46:23] Voice 12: Yeah, no, exactly.

[0:46:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): I remember that.

[0:46:25] Voice 17: We can do it.

[0:46:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah.

[0:46:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): We're pretty resourceful.

[0:46:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): Trustee Thorn?

[0:46:30] Voice 5: Well, I just find it is frustrating. I'll be quite honest with you. I think people have made plans to come here based on a posted agenda. I certainly know in terms of, you know, the ability to pivot and find some solution is, you know, I would rather look for a way to, again, find a solution so we can carry on.

[0:46:51] Voice 5: I do know that we had meetings involving North and South Pender residents many of

[0:46:57] Voice 5: you were in attendance at the school outside so I mean I don't think that

[0:47:02] Voice 5: acoustics have to be a barrier to a meeting so I I find that if there really

[0:47:09] Voice 5: was an intent to carry on with the meeting we could carry on outside so

[0:47:14] Voice 5: So, that's my views on things.

[0:47:17] Voice 12: Okay, thank you.

[0:47:18] Voice 5: And

[0:47:18] Voice 12: I think the

[0:47:18] Voice 5: point was there

[0:47:18] Voice 12: are people not here

[0:47:19] Voice 12: that would like to have come here,

[0:47:21] Voice 12: but they didn't want to come knowing

[0:47:23] Voice 12: that the meeting is in this one.

[0:47:24] Voice 12: So, for example, Barb Grimmer told me,

[0:47:26] Voice 12: I'm not going because it's too crowded.

[0:47:28] Voice 12: She has a farm in the valley, her opinion is worthwhile.

[0:47:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): So,

[0:47:32] Voice 12: there may be other people.

[0:47:32] Voice 12: Everybody's opinion is worthwhile, yeah.

[0:47:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): So, I'm gonna just try and contain the date, Pierre.

[0:47:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm in support of the motion.

[0:47:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): Paul's motion.

[0:47:43] Voice 17: there was some

[0:47:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): other thought that I have or bananas really a fruit I didn't I

[0:47:49] Voice 17: didn't want I didn't want

[0:47:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): to come to Pender Island day just to spend an hour

[0:47:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): and go home again that's for sure and oh so the other thing is this is an

[0:47:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): opportunity right because now we're going to reset the clock and there'll be

[0:48:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): more opportunity for people to communicate with us and this is also an

[0:48:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): opportunity for us to show a good faith and let's move on with it so I'm unless

[0:48:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): is for the discussion

[0:48:12] Voice 5: question there is also another item on the agenda unrelated to the

[0:48:16] Voice 5: public hearings which is a subdivision application uh we

[0:48:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): are going to

[0:48:20] Voice 5: do that i'm going to deal with

[0:48:21] Voice 5: that okay because i know the applicant has traveled yeah and

[0:48:24] Voice 5: the intention is to only

[0:48:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): not do community information meeting and public hearing for the other things and we're going to

[0:48:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): continue with the other items of the business and i imagine i'm anticipating that the numbers will

[0:48:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): reduce and that the people remaining in the room will be comfortable with the band-aid solution of

[0:48:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): opening the doors and since that's all right i'm going to call the vote and then we'll recess for

[0:48:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): a moment to allow people to reassemble themselves all those in favor those opposed just these thorn

[0:48:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): recorded as opposed and that carries and so let's just recess for uh 10 minutes and get our act

[0:48:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): together and we'll start again

[0:48:59] Voice 14: now that we're sort of relaxing the whole thing and we're not

[0:49:05] Voice 14: going to be that official. Maybe there's just some questions that people have got.

[0:49:11] Voice 5: Why do we want to be here if everybody felt so strongly that we shouldn't be

[0:49:14] Voice 5: here? To me

[0:49:15] Voice 14: there's an irony

[0:49:16] Voice 5: of us ending the meeting and then sticking

[0:49:18] Voice 5: around to chat. One

[0:49:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): of the things that's critical about our process is

[0:49:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): that those questions that you have are also held in public context so that

[0:49:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): other people can hear your questions and hear our answers because what often what

[0:49:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): happens is a question is asked or a position is made through a type of

[0:49:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): question that implies something that may or may not be true and then maybe the

[0:49:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): applicant or somebody else wants to speak to it or somebody else wants to

[0:49:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): speak to it so it's better to continue to maintain that sacred thing of

[0:49:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): transparency and have all of this happen in a public forum and so we now recessed

[0:49:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): who are no longer in that public forum.

[0:50:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I would be remiss if I started having casual conversations

[0:50:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): with a quorum of the local justice community

[0:50:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): because we do represent a decision-making body.

[0:50:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): So I apologize in many respects,

[0:50:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): but I also want to thank you for raising your concerns

[0:50:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): and let us just recess.

[0:50:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): And those that are

[0:50:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): not comfortable being here,

[0:50:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): we'll ask

[0:50:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): you to move along and we'll

[0:50:25] Voice 18: welcome you back in the future.

[0:50:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yes. That should be extended. It will be. It will be. Absolutely.

[0:50:37] Voice 13: That's automatic. And so it

[0:50:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): will be, you know, basically, let's say, 12 hours before the next meeting.

[0:50:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): So there'll be ample opportunity for more information. So that's why I'm saying this is an opportunity.

[0:50:52] Voice 19: Why can't just a Zoom meeting, like for a public hearing, why can't it be an interactive Zoom, like this only can be watched, but we've also had it remote, why can't that happen?

[0:51:08] Voice 3: We'll consider

[0:51:10] Voice 17: that for sure. We can't find a venue.

[0:51:12] Voice 5: Well, I mean, I think to Gori's

[0:51:14] Voice 4: point, the idea,

[0:51:15] Voice 5: that's why I asked if we were connected to the internet, because again, in other jurisdictions, people, it's

[0:51:21] Voice 6: both, right?

[0:51:23] Voice 6: No, no, no, I agree

[0:51:25] Voice 6: with you. I'm saying that

[0:51:26] Voice 5: would be the solution for those that want to watch it from home can do so, and those that want to be here can do so.

[0:51:33] Voice 5: So, yeah, I think we're saying the same thing.

[0:51:46] Voice 6: Saturday

[0:51:46] Voice 17: afternoon, is that the plan?

[0:51:49] Voice 3: That's the plan.

[0:51:50] Voice 3: Any

[0:51:51] Voice 17: idea of time?

[0:51:52] Voice 17: Four.

[0:51:53] Voice 17: Deal.

[0:51:53] Voice 17: It

[0:51:55] Voice 19: looks a lot calmer in here now.

[0:51:58] Voice 17: Oh, wait until we talk about the subdivision.

[0:52:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): We reduced the tension a lot.

[0:52:03] Voice 19: You didn't have a huge project?

[0:52:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah, that's right.

[0:52:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, so thank you, gentlemen.

[0:52:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thank you members of the public for and thank you staff. Sure. Are you recording again? I am I

[0:52:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): never spot. Okay, so

[0:52:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): They'll edit it later

[0:52:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, so this brings us to page four of the agenda package of minutes adopted local trust committee minutes in March. That's

[0:52:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): Says adopted local trust minutes were they adopted by our WM or they to be here to drop did today? It says four

[0:52:35] Voice 17: Okay

[0:52:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, so that's a

[0:52:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): typo there. So then I'll ask the trustees if there's any amendments to the minutes. No. Thank you very much then. So then we will adopt the minutes as presented. And I thank everybody involved in providing those minutes to us by general consent. Adopted by general consent.

[0:52:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): say. So I'm going to go through the agenda, resolution without meeting, advisory planning

[0:53:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): commission minutes, nothing. I'm going to just say I feel obligated to ask because I understand

[0:53:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): that there's no advisory planning commission at the moment. And even the application that's ahead

[0:53:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): of us here might be something you would have considered forwarding to advisory planning

[0:53:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): commission. And I would think that we should consider appointing a new advisory planning

[0:53:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): commission it's unusual to not have one there are there's at least one other ltc that doesn't have

[0:53:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): one but they also don't have a lot of applications or work at this time and so just take that under

[0:53:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): advisement from the chair thank you um business arising from the minutes the follow-up action list

[0:53:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): is here and i'll just ask it's on page 11. i'll just ask planner stockdale and regional planning

[0:53:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): manager kojima whether or not that is up to date if you have any updates otherwise we'll just go

[0:54:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): to trustees for questions no everything

[0:54:02] Voice 9: is up to date on that list perfect thank you very much

[0:54:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): so trustees any questions on the follow-up action list uh no i think um all right so we'll receive

[0:54:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): that for information then correspondence um of course there's lots of correspondence associated

[0:54:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): with the application that goes on that file um the only other piece is the electoral boundaries

[0:54:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): boundaries Commission it has been brought to our attention that we should

[0:54:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): pay attention to this I don't know how that affects the South Pender but you're

[0:54:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): in the CRD so in all likelihood your boundaries are probably quite clear

[0:54:38] Voice 3: so

[0:54:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'll just receive that information okay all right so applications and referrals

[0:54:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): is our next item on page 14 and this is South Pender agricultural land reserve

[0:54:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): of 2022.1 and south bender agricultural land reserve 2022.2 we

[0:54:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): have a staff report here and

[0:54:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): planner stockdale you're going to introduce this report i will thank you and then for is the

[0:55:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): applicant here excellent good nice to see you thanks for

[0:55:08] Voice 6: coming you've seen a bit

[0:55:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): of an exciting

[0:55:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): meeting i

[0:55:10] Voice 6: i i was staying as far away from that as i thought well

[0:55:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): you're a member of the community too

[0:55:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): and so I usually get a briefing from the staff and then I'll turn to you to ask

[0:55:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): if you concur with the recommendations or any other new information you'd like

[0:55:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): to provide to us and then we'll have a discussion here and there may be

[0:55:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): questions for you or for staff based upon having

[0:55:32] Voice 6: kind of a bit of a

[0:55:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): background and something to say to you if that's right that's fine just keep it

[0:55:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): short and then be okay but we've got extra time now I think so we're all good

[0:55:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): We're

[0:55:42] Voice 9: ahead of the schedule.

[0:55:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): So, Plan of Staff, yeah, over to you.

[0:55:46] Voice 9: Thank you, Chair Luckham.

[0:55:47] Voice 9: This staff report is for the LTC to decide if it wishes to forward a subdivision

[0:55:55] Voice 9: and non-farm use applications to the Agricultural Land Commission

[0:55:59] Voice 9: for consideration with or without additional comments or recommendations for the LTC to consider

[0:56:07] Voice 9: or to request further information from the applicant.

[0:56:11] Voice 9: so the subject property is just over eight hectares in size and the subject post subdivision

[0:56:18] Voice 9: is to create two strata lots and also a remainder uh common property um and that's where the

[0:56:27] Voice 9: majority of the agricultural land is located is in the common property uh parcel uh there are two

[0:56:34] Voice 9: houses and a cottage currently located on the property and those are located in the in the new

[0:56:40] Voice 9: about the proposed straddle lot one and straddle lot two areas so in terms of

[0:56:46] Voice 9: this is a refresher for ALC applications because the LTC hasn't received one in a

[0:56:53] Voice 9: few years so on page 18 of the agenda figure 4 shows the process of an ALC

[0:57:00] Voice 9: application so it outlines some of the options for the LTC to consider which

[0:57:05] Voice 9: which I've already mentioned. One is to deny the application. The second is forward the application

[0:57:10] Voice 9: without comment, or the LTC has the option to forward the application with comments to the LTC.

[0:57:17] Voice 9: And also, ALC, sorry, ALC. Thank you, Robert, for keeping me in line.

[0:57:25] Voice 9: So when considering, when the LTC is considering an application to support or forward it

[0:57:31] Voice 9: to the ALC, the LTC should consider how the proposal would benefit the agricultural viability

[0:57:38] Voice 9: of the farm itself and also the broader agricultural objects. The South Pender Official

[0:57:45] Voice 9: Community Plan does have a policy 3.5.2H that specifically addresses non-farm use,

[0:57:54] Voice 9: and it mentions that the LTC shall not support applications to the ALC for

[0:58:00] Voice 9: non-farm use unless it's demonstrated the proposed use will allow an active

[0:58:05] Voice 9: farm to diversify, the agricultural capability of the land is not impacted

[0:58:10] Voice 9: and the use is consistent with zoning or policies of the OCP. In addition there is

[0:58:17] Voice 9: is also a trust policy statement 4.1.7 that should be considered when reviewing this application

[0:58:25] Voice 9: so the applicant in the proposal itself did not indicate how the applications would outright

[0:58:35] Voice 9: support agricultural in the short or long term and there's also a strata road access that will

[0:58:44] Voice 9: bisect the common property parcel and that's where the agricultural the ALR

[0:58:49] Voice 9: portion is it's actually the current driveway but it will be converted to the

[0:58:54] Voice 9: the strata access and there's also lack of information of how this strata access

[0:58:59] Voice 9: and that that's why there is a non-farm use application for the strata access

[0:59:04] Voice 9: how this would be beneficial to the local farming or provide or improve

[0:59:08] Voice 9: farming capability or production of the subject property so the LTC should

[0:59:13] Voice 9: consider requiring the applicant to provide further information and the applicant is here

[0:59:18] Voice 9: and we've had some discussions and they are aware of the information staff is asking for

[0:59:24] Voice 9: and I believe they have that information to present today. So staff have put forward

[0:59:32] Voice 9: a recommendation that's on page 14 of the agenda and that is to request further information from

[0:59:42] Voice 9: the applicant for both ALR applications and the rationale for this recommendation is the

[0:59:49] Voice 9: applications could be supported by staff as a subdivision application

[0:59:54] Voice 9: the layout retains larger rural residential parcels and actually does not create

[1:00:00] Voice 9: maximum number of ops permitted by zoning and also the non farm use strata

[1:00:04] Voice 9: access will follow the existing driveway and would potentially have minimal

[1:00:08] Voice 9: impacts on agricultural land but again we just need further information from

[1:00:13] Voice 9: that applicant to really support this non farm use application if the LTC

[1:00:18] Voice 9: wants to forward it to the the ALC there are also alternatives for the LTC to

[1:00:24] Voice 9: consider and that starts on page 20 and if the LTC is satisfied satisfied with

[1:00:29] Voice 9: the comments received from the applicant today, the LTC could consider approving the application

[1:00:34] Voice 9: to be forwarded to the ALC with comments or without comments. And again, also the other

[1:00:41] Voice 9: option is to deny the application. Thank you.

[1:00:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): Excellent. Thank you very much for this report.

[1:00:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): So sir, maybe introduce yourself if you don't mind. And you have some remarks you'd like to make.

[1:00:54] Voice 6: Thank you. My name is Taylor Johnson. I represent the clients of the home. I'm happy to say that

[1:00:59] Voice 6: that I've been involved in the limited development

[1:01:02] Voice 6: of that 20-acre parcel,

[1:01:03] Voice 6: so this is an instance property that was originally purchased.

[1:01:06] Voice 6: I wanted to thank you today

[1:01:08] Voice 6: for taking the time to discuss this.

[1:01:10] Voice 6: I know that there's a lot of items on your agenda,

[1:01:12] Voice 6: so I'll try to be brief.

[1:01:14] Voice 6: Although you're considering an application

[1:01:15] Voice 6: for non-farm use exclusion component

[1:01:18] Voice 6: to our larger subdivision application,

[1:01:19] Voice 6: I'd like to start with a high-level look

[1:01:20] Voice 6: at the purpose behind today's discussion

[1:01:22] Voice 6: and better frame the overall context of the request.

[1:01:25] Voice 6: As you may be aware,

[1:01:27] Voice 6: our clients own an almost 20-acre property,

[1:01:29] Voice 6: not too far away from where we're meeting today.

[1:01:31] Voice 6: They were lifelong friends and a little over a decade ago

[1:01:33] Voice 6: were introduced to the property and fell in love with it.

[1:01:35] Voice 6: Although oddly configured with a little under half

[1:01:38] Voice 6: of the property in the agricultural land reserve,

[1:01:41] Voice 6: the land use by-law still allowed for two homes

[1:01:44] Voice 6: and two cottages to be built on the residential portion,

[1:01:47] Voice 6: which suited their needs as a common retreat

[1:01:50] Voice 6: to bring the families together

[1:01:51] Voice 6: when wanting to get out of the city.

[1:01:53] Voice 6: Over five years, they designed, permitted,

[1:01:55] Voice 6: and built these buildings and have used them regularly since.

[1:01:58] Voice 6: Since neither home, and this is particularly important for the topic today, neither home

[1:02:03] Voice 6: was designed with the intent of matching out the available area through the land use bylaw,

[1:02:08] Voice 6: but instead as an architectural expression of waterfront living.

[1:02:11] Voice 6: During their ownership of the property, they've been very good about the upkeep of the land

[1:02:15] Voice 6: and maintenance of the buildings while having a limited impact on those around them.

[1:02:19] Voice 6: There was a point back in 2011, and this is mentioned in the report, that they considered

[1:02:24] Voice 6: considered a more intensive subdivision, at that time four lots plus a common agricultural

[1:02:27] Voice 6: piece to add several more buildings and families into the mix. For several reasons, including

[1:02:32] Voice 6: a requiring dedication and a limited desire of changing the overall feeling of the property,

[1:02:38] Voice 6: this subdivision application was abandoned and the property has maintained the same configuration

[1:02:41] Voice 6: since the time of purchase. With time, it has become apparent that clarifying the ownership

[1:02:46] Voice 6: structure of the property is important. Changes to the family dynamics and pressures of estate

[1:02:50] Voice 6: estate planning as they age,

[1:02:52] Voice 6: necessitate a better delineation between the two.

[1:02:55] Voice 6: That realization is what has brought them back to us

[1:02:58] Voice 6: with the request of exploring a more formal

[1:03:00] Voice 6: and permanent method of clarifying the title of each home.

[1:03:06] Voice 6: As such, we move forward with a very complicated process

[1:03:08] Voice 6: of submitting a subdivision application

[1:03:10] Voice 6: seeking approvals from the various agencies

[1:03:12] Voice 6: that have oversight in the matter.

[1:03:14] Voice 6: It's important to note that the purpose of this subdivision

[1:03:16] Voice 6: is simply to formalize what has already been built

[1:03:19] Voice 6: on the property for the two owners there is no redevelopment or construction activity contemplated

[1:03:24] Voice 6: behind beyond any exploration required to meet all of the conditions set forth in the response

[1:03:30] Voice 6: to our application as the portion of the application we're here to discuss today has to

[1:03:35] Voice 6: deal with the referral to the alc there were several agricultural related questions and

[1:03:40] Voice 6: comments that were generated as part of the staff report for this meeting please consider our

[1:03:44] Voice 6: responses to those questions now we were requested to provide information on the current farm

[1:03:49] Voice 6: activities on the ar alr land to address ocp policy 352h although my clients jointly own swift

[1:03:57] Voice 6: thoroughbreds incorporated which is one of the province's top owners and breeders of racehorses

[1:04:02] Voice 6: there are no current farming activities on the property after building the now existing barn

[1:04:07] Voice 6: and reviewing the quality of the land as mentioned in the report and additional infrastructure

[1:04:12] Voice 6: structure required for having horse and sheep use as the lands were originally intended,

[1:04:16] Voice 6: it was determined the feasibility of partially shifting operations of swift thoroughbreds

[1:04:21] Voice 6: to the island is not practical and would not enhance the broader agricultural objectives

[1:04:25] Voice 6: of the area. The current barn structure is still in place and simply used for storage.

[1:04:30] Voice 6: There is no shift in the intent of the use of this property as part of this application.

[1:04:36] Voice 6: Second question, information on how the agricultural capability of the land will not be impacted

[1:04:40] Voice 6: by the non-farm use, which is dealing with the strata access road. This

[1:04:44] Voice 6: application is simply intended for providing the vision to the existing

[1:04:47] Voice 6: rural portion of the property, allowing our clients to formalize their ownership

[1:04:51] Voice 6: structure and prepare for future estate planning. There's nothing contemplated in

[1:04:55] Voice 6: this application concerning development that would impact the existing condition

[1:04:58] Voice 6: or the use of the property in its entirety or specific to the agricultural

[1:05:02] Voice 6: portion. In addition, limiting further reconfiguration of the property in

[1:05:07] Voice 6: perpetuity is part of our conditions of subdivision as the road we're discussing is existing and

[1:05:13] Voice 6: wouldn't require significant modification to provide the same access as utilized today

[1:05:17] Voice 6: there's no change in the condition of that access that would impact the limited capability of the

[1:05:22] Voice 6: agricultural land lastly how the applications are not a variance with island policy 4.1.7

[1:05:32] Voice 6: given the configuration of the split in the zoning of the property there is no way to access the

[1:05:37] Voice 6: the residential portion of the property without going through the agricultural land.

[1:05:41] Voice 6: The topography of the lot dictated the current road location and design which will be left

[1:05:46] Voice 6: in place as part of this application.

[1:05:48] Voice 6: No negative or, frankly, positive impact will result in the referral of this application

[1:05:53] Voice 6: to the ALC.

[1:05:54] Voice 6: In addition, the requested covenant mentioned previously as well will limit any dwelling

[1:06:00] Voice 6: or cottage on the agricultural portion of the property and would eliminate this conversation

[1:06:05] Voice 6: from happening again in the future I asked you to consider our application

[1:06:09] Voice 6: both on its merit and intent with your support and forwarded to the

[1:06:13] Voice 6: Agricultural Land Commission for their consideration thank you again for your

[1:06:16] Voice 6: time reviewing this matter I look forward to any questions thank

[1:06:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): you so

[1:06:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): trustees would you give any questions for staff or the applicant just

[1:06:28] Voice 5: a couple

[1:06:28] Voice 5: administrative questions with one of these things doesn't come before us in

[1:06:33] Voice 5: my time here so the I guess first off our approval is required for an app

[1:06:42] Voice 5: subdivision subdivision application to be advanced to the LC correct both the

[1:06:46] Voice 4: non farm use and the subdivision application so there's two separate

[1:06:49] Voice 4: applications right

[1:06:50] Voice 4: technically yeah the LTC doesn't advance them to the ALC

[1:06:56] Voice 4: that's it they're done got

[1:06:58] Voice 5: it got it now the interesting thing is again because

[1:07:02] Voice 5: the property's got a split zone on it the again when I read that the ROCP

[1:07:10] Voice 5: policy if we're not making an application correct me if I'm wrong

[1:07:14] Voice 5: we're not making an application to subdivide the ALC portion in and of

[1:07:19] Voice 5: itself like we're on hiding it into smaller pieces but we're simply

[1:07:25] Voice 5: subdividing it off from the residential portion in the same parameters as where

[1:07:30] Voice 5: the split zoning occurs i'm assuming yeah and turning that portion of um agricultural land

[1:07:38] Voice 5: into a piece of common property that's correct okay okay no thank you i just wanted to understand

[1:07:44] Voice 5: sort of the parameters of of of of what's behind this um i don't have any more administrative

[1:07:51] Voice 5: steve i don't know whether you want to speak to any to anything first before

[1:07:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): i sort of

[1:07:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): that this is a recent change in the ALC regulation and that prior applicants had the opportunity

[1:08:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): to advance to the ALC with or without comp.

[1:08:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): Maybe that's not true.

[1:08:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): No.

[1:08:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): We did it before.

[1:08:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): It always came here, but now we have to make comment.

[1:08:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): We weren't obligated to make comment before.

[1:08:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): It's changed.

[1:08:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): to it um i

[1:08:26] Voice 4: think you could you could advance them without comment well

[1:08:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): what is it there's change

[1:08:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): then

[1:08:30] Voice 4: there's some there's some other regulations about house size that have changed as a new

[1:08:34] Voice 4: process for residential it includes the advances there's a new residential uh non-farm use process

[1:08:40] Voice 4: for additional residences anyway

[1:08:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): oh well this is a slightly different process to what i'm familiar

[1:08:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): with so steve do you have some remarks or questions for the applicant well

[1:08:51] Voice 17: i've known that property

[1:08:52] Voice 17: since I got here early 80s and property in my time has never been an active farm

[1:08:57] Voice 17: and the old Campbell ownership who owned all the property along here they ran

[1:09:03] Voice 17: sheep on it and I can't think of a better agricultural use to destroy the

[1:09:09] Voice 17: environment than sheep or goats so I don't think I'm particularly getting hung up on

[1:09:15] Voice 17: trying to maintain an active farm they used to have apple trees on it and I'm

[1:09:20] Voice 17: assuming that the trees are still there and that's good enough agriculture for me um

[1:09:27] Voice 17: there's a there's a couple of things if i i mean i the point that i uh want to support

[1:09:34] Voice 17: wholeheartedly here is that the property has a greater subdivision potential

[1:09:39] Voice 17: than what is being requested and i think that is a huge benefit to the community overall

[1:09:45] Voice 17: so um i and i did speak to taylor on the phone and asked if if they would be

[1:09:51] Voice 17: amenable to having the zoning reflect that no further subdivision of the RR2 could take place with this.

[1:10:01] Voice 17: I think the access has always been there and they have stated that no upgrade of that access will be taken care of on maintenance only.

[1:10:11] Voice 17: So I don't think that is a particular problem with any previous farm use or destruction of the agricultural zone.

[1:10:23] Voice 17: So as far as I'm concerned, if the applicant is prepared to agree to no further subdivision of the RR2 property, then I don't have any other real comments to advance to the ALC.

[1:10:43] Voice 17: see I think this is a I think this is a reasonable and a request and subdivision

[1:10:51] Voice 17: application and I think I think as a result there is some benefit to to the

[1:10:56] Voice 17: community as a whole by reducing overall density so I'm good with it

[1:11:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): so maybe I

[1:11:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): just go to staff to ask about the trustee rights remarks there there is

[1:11:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): already a covenant proposed in place for the agricultural portion of it that's

[1:11:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): That's not for the RR2, but is the RR2 already at the maximum subdivision potential?

[1:11:19] Voice 9: It's not, no.

[1:11:21] Voice 9: But we could, or the applicant could add that restriction to the covenant that's required by the preliminary layover view.

[1:11:29] Voice 9: They could add that into the covenant that will be required for final approval of subdivision.

[1:11:35] Voice 4: That would be a voluntary covenant.

[1:11:38] Voice 4: The covenant that's required in the bylaw is for the common property.

[1:11:43] Voice 9: to

[1:11:43] Voice 4: restrict development on the common property and it's it's um it's required under the land use

[1:11:49] Voice 4: bylaw for that for mainland strata regulations um if the applicant chose to also restrict further

[1:11:56] Voice 4: subdivision in the residential portions yeah we would certainly be happy to add that to the

[1:12:00] Voice 4: covenant

[1:12:01] Voice 5: sure um to the applicant in your comments was what if i heard it right um i think that was

[1:12:11] Voice 5: what was being offered as well as it was a

[1:12:13] Voice 6: request uh that we had during the conversations leading up

[1:12:17] Voice 6: to this and we ran that past our clients they're not interested in further subdivision of the rr

[1:12:22] Voice 6: portion um they're interested in whatever they are zoning allows and so right now one of the

[1:12:29] Voice 6: newly graded parcels would be a house and a cottage there may at some time be a cottage

[1:12:33] Voice 6: proposed for the second parcel but they're both over five acres right

[1:12:37] Voice 5: so if i hear you correctly

[1:12:40] Voice 5: one thing that we could, like, you know, if the zoning allows, so if we proceed with this,

[1:12:48] Voice 5: there would be two separate legal RR parcels. The size of each of those would enable, under

[1:12:54] Voice 5: our land use by-law, would enable both properties to have a cottage in addition to a guest cottage

[1:13:00] Voice 5: and a chicken coop or whatever other density

[1:13:02] Voice 6: they wanted to have, which is fine.

[1:13:05] Voice 5: It's similar

[1:13:05] Voice 6: to what the one property RR was allowed.

[1:13:09] Voice 6: It allowed two houses and two prodigies.

[1:13:10] Voice 5: Correct.

[1:13:11] Voice 6: They're not looking to increase that.

[1:13:12] Voice 6: But

[1:13:12] Voice 5: so, and I wouldn't want to curtail their abilities to add a guest

[1:13:17] Voice 5: prodigy or other such things that they could do.

[1:13:19] Voice 5: But I am interested in the idea that if the applicant was not going to

[1:13:23] Voice 5: undertake further subdivision of the residential properties to add more

[1:13:28] Voice 5: houses on those, I think that would be,

[1:13:31] Voice 5: certainly you can hear what your points were, Steve.

[1:13:34] Voice 5: I think that would be a net benefit to how, you know, to our approach here on preserving the rural character.

[1:13:40] Voice 5: So they

[1:13:41] Voice 6: love the rural character of the area, and they don't want to create more infrastructure draws that you would require in order to carve those properties up, wells.

[1:13:51] Voice 6: I mean, just to split them dealing with VHA and water is enough of a thing.

[1:13:58] Voice 17: Just warning enough.

[1:14:01] Voice 4: So, yeah, thank you.

[1:14:05] Voice 4: Well, maybe I'll just speak, Mike, because it's a bit of a more higher-level comment.

[1:14:09] Voice 4: So just once you create a strata, a bare-land strata, it's very difficult to undo that or

[1:14:14] Voice 4: do further subdivisions within a bare-land strata.

[1:14:16] Voice 4: So they're kind of locking themselves in with this.

[1:14:21] Voice 4: Oh, I see.

[1:14:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): I mean,

[1:14:22] Voice 4: technically, you can dissolve the strata and have a new, old plan of strata

[1:14:25] Voice 4: subdivision, but it's difficult.

[1:14:30] Voice 4: Sorry,

[1:14:31] Voice 6: I missed that thing in my...

[1:14:32] Voice 5: so they're creating

[1:14:32] Voice 6: a bare land strata okay

[1:14:33] Voice 4: okay and once you create the strata got it um to

[1:14:37] Voice 4: dissolve that strata you can't just take one of the strata lots and be something which is

[1:14:40] Voice 4: sorry to

[1:14:41] Voice 6: interject but that's why the discussion came up with us because that was part of our

[1:14:45] Voice 6: our notes in the process and that was one of the things like there was there was four things that

[1:14:49] Voice 6: i wanted i specifically asked them are you sure about this because that's one of the potential

[1:14:54] Voice 6: living factors right and they were they were definitely fine okay

[1:14:57] Voice 5: so maybe i missed that or

[1:14:58] Voice 5: maybe it just escaped me but so we're creating a bear that I'm familiar with

[1:15:03] Voice 5: them I live on one myself so we're creating a bear land strata one

[1:15:07] Voice 6: lot one

[1:15:08] Voice 6: lot common property and the agricultural land course zone is the same boundary as

[1:15:13] Voice 6: it is now the only exception being the what you would call an easement through

[1:15:18] Voice 6: it to get access yeah

[1:15:21] Voice 5: yeah yeah fair enough so yeah

[1:15:24] Voice 4: by way of comparison it

[1:15:25] Voice 4: was it would be if uh you know the strategy that you're in trustee thorne decided oh instead of how

[1:15:31] Voice 4: you know how x minimum are lost we got up there 22 or whatever we wanted 23 yeah the zoning allows it

[1:15:35] Voice 4: yeah the process to do that

[1:15:37] Voice 5: yeah yeah yeah yeah fine fine okay no that's helpful no and i concur

[1:15:43] Voice 5: with trustee wright i'm i mean i think the the pro the property and i've walked it a couple times

[1:15:48] Voice 5: over the last whatever 12 years I mean to me I understand that you know the

[1:15:55] Voice 5: estate planning the desire to to be able to plan for the future I think they've

[1:15:59] Voice 5: been I mean in terms of the development approach it has been taken there I think

[1:16:03] Voice 5: it's been exemplary I think you know it's interesting we've had applicants

[1:16:06] Voice 5: that have come not Apple property owners on the island that have that have

[1:16:09] Voice 5: approached me and talked about you know ideas for development of their property

[1:16:13] Voice 5: I've had more than one person that have referenced as an example of what they find to be inspiring

[1:16:21] Voice 5: is the properties that are, the way these two homes are being situated on that property.

[1:16:26] Voice 5: And I think they've done, again, an exemplary job of designing those properties.

[1:16:30] Voice 5: So I certainly am supportive of the application and I don't need to impose any additional

[1:16:38] Voice 5: constraints or or questions that would have to be forwarded to the ALC this

[1:16:44] Voice 5: might be on it okay

[1:16:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): so back to staff for a minute so it sounds to me like your

[1:16:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): recommendation is an additional covenant is not required however that's what

[1:17:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): Steve has said if you'd like to see that covenant it obviously doesn't hurt and

[1:17:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): it's voluntary doesn't have to have an additional layer because although it

[1:17:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): might be difficult wouldn't be impossible for that to be dissolved and

[1:17:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): resubdivided and but that said the Covenant normally there's a third

[1:17:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): interested party that would be involved in that and this may not is would there

[1:17:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): be there we wouldn't be apart

[1:17:26] Voice 4: just a clue to the restriction in the existing

[1:17:28] Voice 4: covenant that they're required to provide yes for the no restricting use

[1:17:34] Voice 4: use of the common property okay so the decision

[1:17:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): we'd be a party to that company

[1:17:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): so the decision here today isn't contingent on that however we can do

[1:17:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): that and then they would work with you do you need some direction from us to

[1:17:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): say include the South Bender local trust committee as a party in the covenant to

[1:17:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): further the LTC is always

[1:17:59] Voice 4: going to be included in the covenant it would be a

[1:18:03] Voice 4: request to the applicant to agree to restrict and

[1:18:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): should we do that by motion

[1:18:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): yes okay yeah

[1:18:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): so then that's what I'm seeking and it sounds to me like you're

[1:18:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): certainly willing and maybe I'll just speak to the application I'm excited

[1:18:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): about this and that as Steve mentioned right from get-go it's significantly

[1:18:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): less development than what is potentially there it's the preservation

[1:18:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): and protection of those lands despite the marginal agricultural use it's still

[1:18:29] Trustee Luckham (probable): agricultural land and you know agricultural land has its own unique

[1:18:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): measures of preserving and protecting the Gulf Islands in our broad mandate so

[1:18:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): I think this is an exciting proposal and it's the opportunity to to tighten that

[1:18:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): up a little bit is there I definitely welcome that I didn't have some concerns

[1:18:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): about wanting to make sure the road was always maintained with a permeable

[1:18:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): surface you know because you could pave it you could tarmac it that would be a

[1:18:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): a bad idea I'm in support of let's advance this and ask for that covenant

[1:19:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): so I need a motion and is that in an alternative motion here it

[1:19:05] Voice 9: is not yeah

[1:19:07] Voice 4: it's a

[1:19:09] Voice 4: separate motion motion yeah

[1:19:10] Voice 4: so is moving second in the applicant be

[1:19:13] Voice 4: requested to provide a restriction on further subdivision of the rural

[1:19:18] Voice 4: residential lots in the section 219 covenant

[1:19:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'll move that okay so you guys

[1:19:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): obviously got that motion at this point so move do you prepare to second that

[1:19:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): camera yes thank you so trustee Thorne seconded any further discussion all

[1:19:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): those in favor of that additional motion and check that carries unanimously and

[1:19:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): so obviously now there's a final motion to advance this to the ALC with support

[1:19:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): or otherwise asking for more information it sounds like we don't need that more

[1:19:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): information no

[1:19:48] Voice 17: the only question i have is uh whether we uh uh attach comments to it or not

[1:19:53] Voice 17: so as our is our comment is do we need to requi uh include the comments that we support the

[1:20:00] Voice 17: application or do we just for us to have it forwarded without comment so that's under

[1:20:05] Voice 9: alternative on page 20 so you can there's a draft motion there that basically says

[1:20:10] Voice 9: ltc supports the applications and direct staff to forward the application to the alc for further

[1:20:17] Voice 9: a consideration that's alternative one okay and that the ltc has specific comments that you want

[1:20:22] Voice 9: to be included in that referral to the alc but that would be option number two yeah

[1:20:27] Voice 17: no i i i

[1:20:29] Voice 17: don't have any other well you might have you're not

[1:20:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): something i have lots of opportunity to talk

[1:20:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): to the staff at the alc and the chair and stuff and you know they appreciate positive comments

[1:20:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): about in support of it and so you know what you articulated right at the beginning of this

[1:20:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): was that the and I'll just paraphrase the LTC isn't supporting this

[1:20:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): application because it is presenting a lower level of development and is

[1:20:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): protecting the agricultural lands and you know when they read that they go the

[1:21:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): LTC is on board with this one okay yeah I

[1:21:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): think that's a good idea sense yeah I

[1:21:05] Voice 5: think it's a good suggestion you you obviously I guess we'd be recording this

[1:21:13] Voice 5: Kim and Robert so certainly if you wanted to go back in and indicate what

[1:21:17] Voice 5: what the positive comments were.

[1:21:18] Voice 5: You'd have that on tape.

[1:21:20] Voice 5: Well, it was better for it

[1:21:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): to be crafted in a motion.

[1:21:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I think

[1:21:23] Voice 5: Steve is more

[1:21:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): than capable of rendering that.

[1:21:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): Thanks.

[1:21:28] Voice 17: That the South Pinter Island Local Trust Committee supports

[1:21:30] Voice 17: applications SBALR 2021.1 and SBALR 2022.1 area group

[1:21:38] Voice 17: for subdivision and non-farm use within the Agricultural Land

[1:21:42] Voice 17: Reserve and direct staff to forward the application

[1:21:45] Voice 17: application to the Agricultural Land Commission, stating that we support this application because

[1:21:57] Voice 17: it reduces overhaul density and protects the agricultural lands and capability for agriculture.

[1:22:13] Voice 17: Nicely said.

[1:22:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): Well said.

[1:22:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): And I'm just going to ask, you got that?

[1:22:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yep.

[1:22:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): Would you like me to read it back?

[1:22:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): It's not going to take forever.

[1:22:22] Voice 4: I do.

[1:22:26] Voice 4: moved and seconded that the sub-fender on local trust committee supports

[1:22:29] Voice 4: applications for subdivision and non-farm use within the agricultural

[1:22:34] Voice 4: land reserve and direct staff before the application to the Agricultural Land

[1:22:37] Voice 4: Commission for further consideration and to include the following comments the

[1:22:41] Voice 4: LTC so that the LTC supports the application because it reduces overall

[1:22:46] Voice 4: density and protects the agricultural lands and capability for agriculture

[1:22:50] Voice 4: culture.

[1:22:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): Moved and seconded. Trustee Wright moved it. Trustee Thorne seconded it. Any further

[1:22:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): discussion? All those in favor? That carries. I think

[1:23:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): that concludes that. Thank

[1:23:03] Voice 17: you very much

[1:23:04] Voice 17: for coming today and good

[1:23:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): luck with that property and give our thanks to the owners for the fine

[1:23:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): work that they're doing. Absolutely. Well, I'm happy to

[1:23:11] Voice 6: say there will be no changes as a result

[1:23:12] Voice 6: Yeah.

[1:23:15] Voice 6: Awesome.

[1:23:16] Voice 6: Appreciate it.

[1:23:17] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:23:17] Voice 6: Enjoy your weekend.

[1:23:19] Voice 2: Yes, sir.

[1:23:20] Voice 2: Just a point of information.

[1:23:21] Voice 2: Does this application, the representative for the applicants mentioned the dedication

[1:23:31] Voice 2: in 2011.

[1:23:32] Voice 2: Is there a dedication that goes with this subdivision?

[1:23:35] Voice 2: No.

[1:23:35] Voice 5: It's under the four lots.

[1:23:37] Voice 2: Okay.

[1:23:38] Voice 2: Okay.

[1:23:38] Voice 2: Thank you.

[1:23:39] Voice 2: Because, of

[1:23:39] Voice 5: course, I mean, I thought I asked Robert the question myself the other day because I remember we had quite a, back when Buffy was the chair, we had quite a conversation about it.

[1:23:50] Voice 5: And, yeah, I bet at that point there was more lots that were involved.

[1:23:54] Voice 5: Yeah.

[1:23:54] Voice 5: Yeah.

[1:23:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): So is the LTC comfortable continuing at this point?

[1:23:58] Voice 5: Yeah.

[1:23:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): See how far along we get.

[1:23:59] Voice 5: You're better.

[1:23:59] Voice 5: What are we going to talk about now?

[1:24:01] Voice 5: Well, we've

[1:24:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): got three referrals here, which I'm not going to suffer you having to go forward.

[1:24:11] Voice 17: Can you put it

[1:24:11] Voice 17: on a consent agenda?

[1:24:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): The indication to the respective LTC is that our interests are not impacted.

[1:24:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): Correct.

[1:24:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): And so if you feel that our interests are not impacted, I would just look for a motion

[1:24:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): with respect to Cichorne Island Local Trust Committee referral for proposed by

[1:24:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): 133 and 134 and that we do not believe our interests are affected and that's it

[1:24:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): and we'll do that for each of those. So moved. You got that okay over there?

[1:24:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): I do. And so moved and seconded. Seconded by Cameron Thorne. All those in favor?

[1:24:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): That carries. And so Maine Island Local Trust Committee referral proposed by

[1:24:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): 184 and 189. Are your interests affected?

[1:24:54] Voice 17: None. I still move.

[1:24:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): So a little bit more formally because

[1:24:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): we're recording it.

[1:25:00] Voice 17: Okay. Is that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee? I can't find it.

[1:25:09] Voice 17: Indicate the Maine Island.

[1:25:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): Indicate the Maine Island

[1:25:11] Voice 17: bylaws. Our interests are not affected.

[1:25:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): You got that, I'm sure. Yes. Seconded. Cameron Thorne, thank you. All those in favor?

[1:25:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): and carries there's another one

[1:25:24] Voice 5: I guess I'll speak to the story because it's my

[1:25:28] Voice 5: turn that that the LTC make a recommendation that I move the LTC note

[1:25:38] Voice 5: that its interests are not affected with bylaws 186 and 187 of the main

[1:25:45] Voice 5: antelope local trust committee and then we say you know more

[1:25:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): say no further okay

[1:25:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, so moved and seconded, Steve?

[1:25:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yes.

[1:25:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): Seconded by Steve Wright.

[1:25:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): Any discussion?

[1:25:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): All those in favor?

[1:25:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): So that, too, carries unanimously.

[1:26:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): Excellent.

[1:26:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): So we'll continue on here, local trust committee projects.

[1:26:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): This is the South Pender Local Trust Committee Proposed Fees Bylaw 124 for consideration of adoption.

[1:26:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): That's come back from the executive committee, and it's here for you to finally adopt, and then it will be so.

[1:26:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): Staff, any remarks at this point?

[1:26:23] Trustee Luckham (probable): No.

[1:26:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): And did you, I didn't look at the, I didn't actually analyze it.

[1:26:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): Are the fees as prescribed?

[1:26:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): As in the model bylaw that was endorsed by Trust County.

[1:26:35] Voice 4: Well,

[1:26:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): I just want to thank you both very much for supporting that.

[1:26:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): In my mind, this is an important financial piece for the organization.

[1:26:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): So can I get a motion?

[1:26:45] Voice 5: I recommend that the South Island Local Trust Committee Bylaw 124

[1:26:49] Voice 5: foresighted to south pender island local trust committee by fee bylaw 2021 be adopted moved

[1:26:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): second christy great any further discussion others in favor excellent thank you very much

[1:27:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): so 13.2 the land use bylaw amendments project staff report attached kim stockdale over to you

[1:27:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): page 74 of our agenda see

[1:27:21] Voice 17: you david thank

[1:27:23] Voice 9: you chair welcome um this staff report is said to

[1:27:27] Voice 9: provide an update on on file number one two two and also to provide options post public hearing

[1:27:33] Voice 9: but as there was no public

[1:27:35] Voice 9: hearing today i will not discuss that so

[1:27:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): perhaps we should just defer

[1:27:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): this

[1:27:40] Voice 4: report until yeah we

[1:27:42] Voice 9: could unless the ltc has any amendments they wanted to make yeah or

[1:27:45] Voice 4: just even discuss do you want to make amendments yes before proceeding to the next public hearing

[1:27:50] Voice 4: and then a discussion about the logistics of the public hearing yeah

[1:27:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): good idea yeah i do

[1:27:56] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah, you know, this is an ideal moment, but I also want to be cognizant of public trust in that we have said we're not doing this.

[1:28:07] Voice 17: Well, I'd like to just throw them on the table so people understand where we're coming from, and then we'll raise it in a public meeting.

[1:28:14] Voice 17: It seems

[1:28:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): fair, because

[1:28:17] Voice 17: it will help advance it and maybe clear up some uncertainty.

[1:28:20] Voice 17: I think I should give Cam and also staff a heads up on some of the things I'm thinking about.

[1:28:26] Voice 17: go ahead so if I go down to the document to the bylaw let me go through it

[1:28:35] Voice 17: there's two which page oh it's on page 78 okay 2.2 says by removing the words

[1:28:45] Voice 17: of the floor area replacing it with limited floor area I'm just wondering

[1:28:49] Voice 17: why that change is required yeah the

[1:28:53] Voice 17: reason

[1:28:54] Voice 9: why that's changed is because we

[1:28:56] Voice 9: We can't vary a definition, so the maximum floor area is in the definition of cottage,

[1:29:06] Voice 9: so what we had to do was actually pull out that reference and we put it back into the

[1:29:10] Voice 9: section.

[1:29:12] Voice 5: You're talking about cottages?

[1:29:14] Voice 9: Cottages.

[1:29:14] Voice 9: Yeah, that's right.

[1:29:15] Voice 9: I noticed that.

[1:29:16] Voice 9: Yeah.

[1:29:16] Voice 17: Okay.

[1:29:20] Voice 17: Yeah.

[1:29:20] Voice 17: The only reason I thought is because we are talking about maximum floor area, so.

[1:29:27] Voice 17: And then we go down to 2.7, and I'm not sure why we have a larger floor area for agricultural

[1:29:44] Voice 17: land reserve combined floor area than we do in any other zone.

[1:29:52] Voice 9: Would you like me to speak to that?

[1:29:55] Voice 17: Yes, I would.

[1:29:57] Voice 9: that is based on a recommendation from

[1:30:00] Voice 9: the ALC. So the ALC has their home business regulations, and they have a regulation that

[1:30:09] Voice 9: supports home businesses, but it should not exceed 100 square meters. So that is coming

[1:30:16] Voice 9: from the ALC.

[1:30:18] Voice 17: Yeah, and the, I mean, I've got some paperwork

[1:30:22] Voice 17: I'll pass on to you from the ALC, and in my discussions with the guys, they acknowledge

[1:30:30] Voice 17: are they are primarily dealing with properties over 40 hectares which is 100 acres and so and

[1:30:37] Voice 17: i i i think even further on down our list when we'll get to it i think some of the the items

[1:30:43] Voice 17: that are in this proposal with respect to agricultural land they are just way too big

[1:30:50] Voice 17: and out of proportion for the size of the mutual properties we have so um i was a little concerned

[1:30:57] Voice 17: about what we could do and what we were permitted to do under the legislation

[1:31:02] Voice 17: and so I got some specific answers from the ALC and they said that the local

[1:31:11] Voice 17: government can further restrict the size of principal additional residences and

[1:31:20] Voice 17: so I think I'd like to run with that permission because I'd like to I'd like

[1:31:27] Voice 17: to make that 100 square meters uh the same as in our residential zones to 750 square feet

[1:31:48] Voice 17: so that would be for example 750 but whatever it is i can't the same size as a cottage somewhere

[1:31:54] Voice 17: else steve is what you're speaking to well this is combined use of a floor area and we have one

[1:32:02] Voice 17: for home businesses in yeah yeah so I'd like I just like to see that reflected

[1:32:15] Voice 17: in in this in this way in

[1:32:21] Voice 9: section 2.7 of the bylaw mm

[1:32:23] Voice 17: -hmm so the combined

[1:32:27] Voice 17: floria business except bed and breakfast must not exceed 700 square feet except

[1:32:31] Voice 17: with the such-and-such right you see and I'd like to just remove except in a lot

[1:32:37] Voice 17: lot located within the agricultural land reserve I just like to delete it they

[1:32:41] Voice 17: don't care and and I just think it's too much

[1:32:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): staff do you want to just have a

[1:32:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): motion to amend as discussed or do you want the specifics well how many

[1:32:57] Voice 4: amendments are you potentially

[1:32:58] Voice 17: there's a few and I am and I go through them and

[1:33:02] Voice 17: then if Cameron has any objections that he can he can then it may require

[1:33:07] Voice 17: If

[1:33:08] Voice 4: the LTC is in consent, then you can have one motion.

[1:33:11] Voice 17: Yeah, so when he objects, then we can separate it.

[1:33:16] Voice 9: So just to confirm, we're going to put a period after 700 square feet and delete everything after that?

[1:33:23] Voice 17: That's correct.

[1:33:23] Voice 17: Okay, good. Just

[1:33:24] Voice 5: wanted to make sure.

[1:33:24] Voice 5: Does that look okay with you?

[1:33:25] Voice 5: That's for Section 2.7.

[1:33:29] Voice 5: And I guess, and just sort of as a point of order, so these are things, I mean, if I could just take two seconds.

[1:33:37] Voice 5: obviously this this this public hearing community information meeting did not go

[1:33:41] Voice 5: forward you know frankly I think some of the venom in the crowd was over some

[1:33:45] Voice 5: things that we talked about the other day about just about the total floor

[1:33:50] Voice 5: area some of the things that were the things that we might decide to do

[1:33:56] Voice 5: differently here would that then be presented as part of an update that the

[1:34:03] Voice 5: residents would see in advance of the next community

[1:34:07] Voice 17: information meeting yeah

[1:34:09] Voice 17: so

[1:34:09] Voice 4: right there but we could make a series of amendments you have

[1:34:13] Voice 4: to while

[1:34:15] Voice 4: you give it a second rating yeah make a series of amendments give it second

[1:34:20] Voice 4: reading as amended yeah and then proceed to

[1:34:23] Voice 5: the community information

[1:34:24] Voice 4: meeting a

[1:34:25] Voice 4: public hearing right with those amendments now we could actually

[1:34:29] Voice 9: circulate the amended bylaw next week because these are pretty quick changes

[1:34:36] Voice 9: so then the

[1:34:36] Voice 9: community would have lots of time to have that newly

[1:34:38] Voice 9: amended bylaw, would have a month to read over it, I can

[1:34:43] Voice 9: change the amendments to the black line,

[1:34:45] Voice 5: just everybody has

[1:34:46] Voice 9: lots of time to look at it.

[1:34:48] Voice 9: I

[1:34:48] Voice 5: think that might be a good way to go because it does you know

[1:34:53] Voice 5: there

[1:34:53] Voice 9: I think there's a lot

[1:34:54] Voice 5: of and I just just candidly I spoke to a

[1:34:57] Voice 5: couple of folks that were here in the room over the last couple days and they

[1:35:01] Voice 5: had said if we you had got your mind made up you're not listening I said

[1:35:04] Voice 5: absolutely not but we don't we're here to listen that's why I'm talking to you

[1:35:07] Voice 5: now and the LTC takes your view seriously and when it's appropriate we'll

[1:35:12] Voice 5: make changes of things so to me in a sense it would be a way of illustrating

[1:35:15] Voice 5: in a tangible way that we are you know open and and so I think it's a good idea

[1:35:21] Voice 5: so carry on Steve I understand that before

[1:35:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): we get too far along here just so

[1:35:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): we know where we're going um i'm cognitive and this is my role right i'm cognizant of the public

[1:35:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): trust here and you just said well you could give it second reading and you know what i don't think

[1:35:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): i would rescind first reading and redo

[1:35:41] Voice 4: first reading okay so then before making these

[1:35:43] Voice 4: amendments you should rescind first reading and then make a series of technically revisions but

[1:35:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): call

[1:35:50] Voice 4: them amendments to the bylaw and then give it a new first reading yeah

[1:35:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): and that doesn't affect

[1:35:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): our outcome yeah but I think it doesn't create a perception that we advanced

[1:36:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): this after we said yeah

[1:36:01] Voice 5: okay so so can we raise I mean I mean let's let's let's

[1:36:08] Voice 5: hear what Steve's amendments are before I agree to rescind first reading oh yeah

[1:36:11] Voice 5: yeah we're just well so

[1:36:14] Voice 5: far we

[1:36:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): will have to rescind it in order to make that so

[1:36:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah, just

[1:36:19] Voice 17: a second. I'm just getting warmed up.

[1:36:23] Voice 17: Okay, this is a big one because 2.8, this is

[1:36:29] Voice 17: to allow that...

[1:36:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): What page are you on?

[1:36:35] Voice 17: This is 78 still, or 79, sorry.

[1:36:38] Voice 17: 79 2.8 by adding the words or cottage after the words used as a dwelling to subsection 3.1 4.1

[1:36:49] Voice 17: and that is to assist that there's a rainwater catchment system or cisterns for a cottage as

[1:36:55] Voice 17: well I had difficulty supporting the inclusion of a sister with a dwelling on a blanket proposition

[1:37:07] Voice 17: when the previous trust committee brought this in because I felt that

[1:37:12] Voice 17: there are properties that simply don't require it and and those are things that

[1:37:16] Voice 17: an owner can decide if they feel they're short of water they can look after

[1:37:22] Voice 17: themselves and here I certainly think that if we are going we have included it

[1:37:29] Voice 17: as for the principal problem if I think that if I if an owner wants to build a

[1:37:35] Voice 17: cottage then he's he has to take into consideration whether he needs further

[1:37:42] Voice 17: water supplies and I'm I just don't think if I just don't want a cottage

[1:37:47] Voice 17: included I think one catchment at first off you're gonna have one 9,000 ages is

[1:37:52] Voice 17: not sufficient but I'll be that alone if if he is going to build a cottage he can

[1:37:58] Voice 17: decide whether he wants catchment alone I don't think we should require I just

[1:38:01] Voice 17: think it's I just think it's overkill and if he can't if he doesn't have water

[1:38:12] Voice 17: for his cottage and his water to his cottage doesn't get used for it going so

[1:38:15] Voice 17: then but this is the

[1:38:16] Voice 5: interesting thing if I can I say I mean one thing that's

[1:38:20] Voice 5: always confused me on this whole thing and I remember actually you were the

[1:38:24] Voice 5: chair at the time we were meeting it at poets Cove and it was Wendy and Bruce

[1:38:28] Voice 5: and I think Donna and I spoke I think along similar lines my confusion was

[1:38:34] Voice 5: especially we've had all these studies done by our you know groundwater experts

[1:38:38] Voice 5: we talking about the you know they the the groundwater and the the wells you

[1:38:45] Voice 5: know the are running dry so I was always a bit confused as to why we were

[1:38:50] Voice 5: requiring a cistern for rainwater catchment as opposed to a cistern for

[1:38:55] Voice 5: for managing the well water yeah and

[1:38:58] Voice 5: so so

[1:38:59] Voice 4: yeah things have evolved thinking is

[1:39:03] Voice 4: evolved, let's say that. So

[1:39:04] Voice 4: if you're looking at the proposed amendments on North Pender

[1:39:08] Voice 4: and Galliano, they are doing that. They're shifting to 18,000 gallons for cisterns.

[1:39:16] Voice 4: Gallons or litres?

[1:39:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): Litres.

[1:39:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): 18,000 litres.

[1:39:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): 18,000 gallons.

[1:39:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): That's a

[1:39:21] Voice 4: lot of water.

[1:39:21] Voice 4: That's a chunk of water.

[1:39:22] Voice 4: 18,000 litres for cisterns, and then it'd be for fresh water storage.

[1:39:28] Voice 5: Got it.

[1:39:29] Voice 5: Fresh water being?

[1:39:30] Voice 4: Rainwater or groundwater.

[1:39:31] Voice 4: water i

[1:39:32] Voice 17: think i think that's a much better so does fresh water mean that water that you can drink

[1:39:37] Voice 17: doesn't have to be you can treat potable

[1:39:39] Voice 4: water it's a

[1:39:40] Voice 17: different thing yeah you can you can treat

[1:39:42] Voice 17: any water

[1:39:42] Voice 4: so this is creating flexibility okay for allowing property owners to be flexible

[1:39:48] Voice 4: in how they use the cisterns so they could use it um caffeine water off the roof and non-potable

[1:39:57] Voice 4: for non-potable purposes they could use it to store groundwater that's been pumped in the

[1:40:07] Voice 4: wetter parts of the year presumably and then use that to extend their use over the drier months

[1:40:15] Voice 5: so there's flexibility so then and to me that does make more sense to

[1:40:21] Voice 5: rather than saying

[1:40:22] Voice 5: rainwater to say fresh water and i guess the other thing too and i mean i'm looking at cisterns on my

[1:40:26] Voice 5: own property and I would I mean a very small thing I would suggest is oh maybe

[1:40:32] Voice 5: it already says pasta vs because I mean I'm thinking that in under that scenario

[1:40:37] Voice 5: you might have several cisterns collectively equating to 18,000 liters

[1:40:42] Voice 5: and some might be doing rain rain will get you know rain water off your roof

[1:40:47] Voice 5: and some might be doing well water yep

[1:40:49] Voice 4: and then you could have becoming the

[1:40:51] Voice 4: the smallest is like typical size is 3 by 3,000

[1:40:54] Voice 5: yeah yeah so

[1:40:55] Voice 4: you could have

[1:40:56] Voice 4: several different parts of the property so that's the approach that the results

[1:41:01] Voice 4: of the groundwater work that's been done over the last couple of years yeah

[1:41:06] Voice 4: resulting in a series of amendments to know our North Pendergast so I guess the

[1:41:12] Voice 4: question is

[1:41:13] Voice 3: yeah

[1:41:14] Voice 4: do you want to just change the right

[1:41:16] Voice 4: suggests or delete this

[1:41:18] Voice 4: section and from the amending bylaw and potentially look at doing that in a

[1:41:24] Voice 4: series of other amendments in a future amendment but

[1:41:27] Voice 5: could we if we were to if

[1:41:29] Voice 5: we were to rescind first reading and then give it a new first reading could

[1:41:33] Voice 5: we not just like we're doing that other section on home-based businesses could

[1:41:36] Voice 5: we not just remove the word cottage and then change rainwater to freshwater yeah

[1:41:41] Voice 5: yeah

[1:41:42] Voice 17: do you want to increase the amount to 18,000 which would be about four

[1:41:47] Voice 17: 4,000 gallons.

[1:41:48] Voice 17: Yeah,

[1:41:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): see, I was going to say that 9,000 liters actually sounds like a big number, but

[1:41:52] Voice 17: it's not much water.

[1:41:53] Voice 17: No, you go through that in no time.

[1:41:55] Voice 17: Yeah.

[1:41:55] Voice 17: I've got 10,000 gallons that's turned into my house.

[1:41:58] Voice 17: You know, I've got six.

[1:41:58] Voice 17: Yeah.

[1:41:59] Voice 17: Okay.

[1:42:01] Voice 17: That's how I spell security.

[1:42:03] Voice 9: An amendment I

[1:42:04] Voice 9: would make is instead of adding the words or cottage, it should explicitly state excluding a cottage.

[1:42:11] Voice 9: Because that's where it's an

[1:42:14] Voice 9: interpretation issue, right, with the word dwelling.

[1:42:17] Voice 9: So

[1:42:17] Voice 17: we just want to make sure it's

[1:42:18] Voice 9: explicitly clear that the

[1:42:20] Voice 9: cottage wouldn't trigger the

[1:42:21] Voice 9: requirement.

[1:42:22] Voice 17: Okay.

[1:42:22] Voice 17: Okay.

[1:42:23] Voice 17: Do you want that as a separate one?

[1:42:25] Voice 17: Because this is kind of changing the number.

[1:42:27] Voice 17: Do

[1:42:28] Voice 4: you get the

[1:42:28] Voice 17: gist of it?

[1:42:29] Voice 17: We can do it later?

[1:42:29] Voice 4: Yeah.

[1:42:30] Voice 4: I can say, yeah, I can summarize,

[1:42:32] Voice 17: so I'll just write it down here.

[1:42:33] Voice 17: So we would exclude the word cottage and, or rephrase it to say excluding a cottage

[1:42:45] Voice 17: and must um where is it do

[1:42:49] Voice 5: you want me to read it because i've got the red light all good

[1:42:52] Voice 5: yeah so i

[1:42:53] Voice 5: would say that's why i love the black lines it's such a great way

[1:42:56] Voice 5: to see things

[1:42:56] Voice 5: so to my mind then it would read under section 3.4 3.14.1 a building permit shall not be issued

[1:43:04] Voice 5: for a new building to be used as a dwelling excluding a cottage on a lot in the rr1 rr2

[1:43:10] Voice 5: are in three zones unless a building on the lot is equipped with a fresh water catchment system

[1:43:16] Voice 5: and cisterns for the storage of fresh water with a minimum cistern capacity uh of 18 000 liters

[1:43:26] Voice 3: or

[1:43:27] Voice 5: should it say instead of a minimum should it say with minimum cistern capacities

[1:43:31] Voice 5: because it doesn't have to say you know like to so that we're talking plural or can we read that in

[1:43:38] Voice 5: that like you know for the storage of fresh water with a minimum cistern

[1:43:45] Voice 5: capacity is that is that interpreted to mean it can be more than one physical

[1:43:48] Voice 5: system

[1:43:49] Voice 17: I will consider the

[1:43:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): minimum storage minimum storage of yeah it's not

[1:43:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): a single tank yeah I think you'd be

[1:43:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): hard-pressed to find yeah

[1:43:58] Voice 5: yeah yeah

[1:43:59] Voice 5: let's concrete so as you say a minimum storage capacity yeah yeah yeah okay

[1:44:05] Voice 5: okay does that work

[1:44:07] Voice 5: yeah so

[1:44:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): is that like 19,000 one-gallon jugs could be

[1:44:15] Voice 5: I guess if they wanted

[1:44:18] Voice 17: and would they be considered accessory buildings are

[1:44:21] Voice 4: we considering this a motion at this point

[1:44:23] Voice 4: no

[1:44:23] Voice 17: just the wording so

[1:44:24] Voice 4: I'm taking down the wording okay yeah and then um uh if you to

[1:44:30] Voice 4: choose to rescind the first reading yes and

[1:44:32] Voice 4: then I'll want to summarize they'll go through them

[1:44:34] Voice 4: again like a comedy

[1:44:35] Voice 4: motion to man

[1:44:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay yeah okay back to you Steve yeah

[1:44:42] Voice 17: this is

[1:44:43] Voice 17: a biggie okay so we're off section 2.0 yes moving

[1:44:49] Voice 17: next door to 2.9 and the

[1:44:51] Voice 17: table yeah yeah okay so this is a killer first off I think I think camera has

[1:45:01] Voice 17: suggested we move this to five designations which I would agree with

[1:45:09] Voice 17: which for Peter's sake is the way it's currently right now from what it says so

[1:45:14] Voice 17: what I'm suggesting here in line line one of this table where it says less

[1:45:20] Voice 17: than 0.04 equals one hectare I'd like to I'd like the only change in that line

[1:45:28] Voice 17: would be to the floor area of a dwelling may not exceed 2,500 square feet line 2

[1:45:37] Voice 17: would change the total floor area as Cameron is suggested to 8,000 square

[1:45:47] Voice 17: feet everything else stays the same line 3 would change the total floor area to

[1:45:57] Voice 17: to 9,000 square feet.

[1:46:01] Voice 17: So are

[1:46:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): your numbers out of skew here?

[1:46:03] Voice 5: No, so basically, just so,

[1:46:05] Voice 5: can I just take one second

[1:46:06] Voice 5: and explain to Peter

[1:46:07] Voice 5: what's going on here?

[1:46:07] Voice 5: So this is the existing land use by-law right now.

[1:46:12] Voice 5: This is what we gave first reading to,

[1:46:14] Voice 5: and one of the things that has turned out

[1:46:16] Voice 5: to be a bit of a concern is that people said,

[1:46:20] Voice 5: I once upon a time had, I got two and

[1:46:24] Voice 4: a half acres.

[1:46:24] Voice 5: I can build 8,000 square feet of total buildings and I need that for my guest

[1:46:31] Voice 5: cottage or whatever and then when we made when we advanced bylaw 122 we had

[1:46:36] Voice 5: moved it to four categories so now somebody that was a two and a half acre

[1:46:40] Voice 5: property whereas before they could build 8,000 total area under the one to three

[1:46:46] Voice 5: they'd be made these 2000 square feet of buildable so and again this is the way

[1:46:51] Voice 5: it's always been Peter so our thinking here is that we would go stay in blue

[1:46:57] Voice 5: with the five with the five categories the only difference between the green

[1:47:02] Voice 5: and the blue that I proposed is leaving

[1:47:06] Voice 9: that alone for a

[1:47:07] Voice 9: minute the

[1:47:08] Voice 5: only

[1:47:09] Voice 9: change

[1:47:11] Voice 5: between that and that is that 20,000 is a lot of area

[1:47:15] Voice 5: to build so the

[1:47:17] Voice 5: idea is that 20 would go to 15 but the maximum so

[1:47:21] Voice 5: we go back to we stay with five and the total floor is would be the same as they always have

[1:47:24] Voice 5: been with the exception of 20 going to 15. and so what steve steve isn't i believe i think he's

[1:47:31] Voice 5: consistent with what you see there peter but what he said

[1:47:34] Trustee Luckham (probable): that he was on line three and he was

[1:47:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): saying nine thousand square feet so i think he said yeah

[1:47:38] Voice 17: i know that's yeah that's because i

[1:47:40] Voice 17: was going with four instead of five so let me rephrase all of that and

[1:47:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): before you get too far

[1:47:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): on this however this is an amendment to the bylaw and if the existing one already has this table and

[1:47:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): you're only changing line one two three four five to fifteen thousand feet is it necessary

[1:47:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): to

[1:47:57] Voice 17: well i'm gonna change i'm gonna i'm suggesting change the maximum dwelling area as well

[1:48:03] Voice 17: okay so there's more to this than meets yeah so the table listed in green on

[1:48:12] Voice 17: all on line one the only change would be from 2750 to 2500. all right line

[1:48:20] Voice 17: two would be the

[1:48:22] Voice 17: what is written here. Line 3 would be what is written here at $8,000 and $3,500. Line 4 would

[1:48:34] Voice 17: be $9,000, but change that $3,750 to $3,500. And line 5 would be as written here, except change

[1:48:45] Voice 17: the 4,000 to 3,500 so that 3,500 square feet would be the maximum in any acreage

[1:48:52] Voice 17: over four between anything over four acres as well and that would be

[1:48:59] Voice 17: consistent I believe with North Pender Islands changes except in flora area only

[1:49:13] Voice 17: they

[1:49:13] Voice 9: keep making changes to their changes yeah

[1:49:15] Voice 17: but the last one at the last meeting they went

[1:49:19] Voice 17: twenty five three and thirty five hundred all

[1:49:24] Voice 4: right so to summarize replace the table in 2.9

[1:49:30] Voice 4: by the table in the spreadsheet mm-hmm

[1:49:32] Voice 4: okay so let me just put this in here so

[1:50:06] Voice 16: thanks okay so

[1:50:15] Voice 4: So for less than one acre, same as the spreadsheet, it would be $5,000 and $2,500.

[1:50:24] Voice 17: Correct.

[1:50:24] Voice 4: Okay.

[1:50:25] Voice 4: And for one to two, $6,000 and

[1:50:32] Voice 17: $3,000.

[1:50:34] Voice 17: So same.

[1:50:34] Voice 17: Okay.

[1:50:36] Voice 17: Two to four is the same.

[1:50:38] Voice 17: It's the same.

[1:50:39] Voice 17: Okay.

[1:50:39] Voice 17: Five to ten is $9,000 and $3,500.

[1:50:45] Voice 17: And ten plus is $15,000 and $3,500.

[1:50:49] Voice 17: And given what the ALC has informed me of, again, I want that to apply to all zones, not just the rural residential zones.

[1:51:06] Voice 9: So you want what to apply to all zones?

[1:51:08] Voice 17: All these house houses to apply.

[1:51:11] Voice 17: Not

[1:51:12] Voice 9: just the rural residential?

[1:51:13] Voice 17: That's right.

[1:51:14] Voice 17: That's Steve's idea.

[1:51:15] Voice 4: So if

[1:51:16] Voice 17: they want to apply for

[1:51:17] Voice 4: a variance, do that separately to see if the others agree with that.

[1:51:22] Voice 17: Yep.

[1:51:23] Voice 17: yeah see

[1:51:23] Voice 17: if they agree with the

[1:51:24] Voice 4: numbers first for the residential and then discuss extending it wait

[1:51:29] Voice 17: for public feedback yeah if they're gonna let's give them something to out so basically

[1:51:36] Voice 4: for it would be for um for dwellings it would be 30 maximum would be 3500.

[1:51:41] Voice 17: that's correct yeah

[1:51:42] Voice 4: that

[1:51:42] Voice 17: would start the idea the idea that we we had when we first started was that if if we make the

[1:51:49] Voice 17: size is small enough it will encourage people to apply for a variance which opens up a conversation

[1:51:55] Voice 17: within the community so they can have some input on any impacts that the adjacent property owners

[1:52:01] Voice 17: might feel and any questions i've had about given that the national average floor area is for a

[1:52:12] Voice 17: three-bedroom is 2,200 why we would go too much further beyond beyond that when

[1:52:20] Voice 17: our population was it more than 60% or 65 and over or something why does

[1:52:27] Voice 17: anybody need a 4,000 square foot house in these days of climate change other

[1:52:31] Voice 17: stuff so you

[1:52:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): realize of course

[1:52:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): the national average skews numbers

[1:52:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): absolutely significantly towards the lower end of the spectrum mm-hmm yeah

[1:52:41] Voice 16: Yeah.

[1:52:41] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah.

[1:52:43] Voice 17: What other data do I have?

[1:52:45] Voice 17: No, I know.

[1:52:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): I know.

[1:52:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): It's

[1:52:46] Voice 17: a catch-22.

[1:52:49] Voice 17: You start getting into the data, and you start thinking, can I trust any of it that I'm reading?

[1:52:54] Voice 17: We've got to start somewhere, but I still think that 3,500 is ... It's a big house,

[1:52:59] Voice 17: and it's reasonable in a rural character.

[1:53:01] Voice 4: That's a good number.

[1:53:03] Voice 4: Okay.

[1:53:03] Voice 4: There's consensus on that, and then applying it to the zones.

[1:53:07] Voice 9: Agriculture, forest, and natural resource zones.

[1:53:11] Voice 9: There are three other zones that allow dwellings and cottages. Well,

[1:53:15] Voice 9: dwellings, pardon me.

[1:53:16] Voice 17: Yeah. I think it's particularly important to have a natural resource for some peculiar reason.

[1:53:26] Voice 5: OK. So I guess, you know, I mean, the challenge I have, and I totally respect Steve's views,

[1:53:38] Voice 5: and we're good enough friends that we can agree to disagree on some things.

[1:53:43] Voice 5: I have I mean I guess I have taken a different approach looking at larger

[1:53:53] Voice 5: properties larger larger houses can be accommodated I mean I guess it's not the

[1:53:59] Voice 5: time to I don't I'm not comfortable with with 35 for the last two categories but

[1:54:04] Voice 5: But I want to find, we're not ultimately voting on this thing.

[1:54:10] Voice 5: And how do we, what do we do with bylaw 122 if Steve and I have a different view

[1:54:17] Voice 4: on these last two things?

[1:54:19] Voice 4: What I'm suggesting is that, so far there's been three changes that we've

[1:54:25] Voice 4: all concurred with.

[1:54:26] Voice 4: So once we get to the end of the changes, you can have one resolution on the ones you concur with,

[1:54:33] Voice 4: And then you

[1:54:33] Voice 4: can vote separately on the ones where there's no concurrence, like individuals' ones.

[1:54:38] Voice 5: So one way or another, because By-law 122 is currently read, contains items we agree with and an item we don't agree with.

[1:54:51] Voice 5: So we can't kind of halfway rescind By-law 122, our first reading of By-law 122.

[1:54:58] Voice 5: too so we're going to to have a split set of votes on these things here and

[1:55:05] Voice 5: and ultimately it's going to go to the public but depending upon how Peter

[1:55:08] Voice 5: votes it the table could be different than what it is right now on the house

[1:55:13] Voice 5: size

[1:55:13] Voice 17: well

[1:55:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): just for some of the

[1:55:15] Voice 17: other thing and then I have the public

[1:55:17] Voice 17: information me to make a decision

[1:55:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah you know the significant thing here you

[1:55:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): provided me the perfect opportunity I'm probably going to support what the

[1:55:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): amendments whatever they are because what i'm waiting for is what's the public opinion on that

[1:55:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah and then it goes to that and that's applies to all of us is that when we hear from the public

[1:55:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's our opportunity to go that's

[1:55:37] Voice 5: our voice these

[1:55:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): numbers way too well yeah

[1:55:39] Voice 5: yeah yeah yeah

[1:55:40] Voice 5: fair enough and that's totally fine i just wanted to get it just wanted to make sure we were all

[1:55:45] Voice 5: clear on this

[1:55:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): i think what you said earlier in the

[1:55:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): day was that this is a discussion piece and

[1:55:51] Voice 18: get it on

[1:55:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): the table this is what we're talking about and you know and i gotta say this is like

[1:55:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): deja vu because this is exactly what wendy and bruce did yeah yeah

[1:56:01] Voice 17: well my only concern

[1:56:03] Voice 17: it's it's easier to go up it's very difficult to go down so absolutely

[1:56:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): you know i'd rather

[1:56:09] Voice 17: present the option um to have you know and i'm i'm totally fine with it to have people

[1:56:14] Voice 17: apply for a variance

[1:56:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): so you know a further

[1:56:16] Voice 17: discussion could take place

[1:56:18] Voice 17: i'm fine i'm fine and it's consistent with north bender which is also something i wanted

[1:56:29] Voice 5: Okay, so fair enough so so I but can we can I mean just because I'm going to be I'm happy with with this with my vote of 4,000 being voted down if there's an amendment right right now but I would like to have a vote on this

[1:56:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): is a separate vote yeah yeah

[1:56:44] Voice 5: I put rockets around it yeah okay

[1:56:46] Voice 5: where

[1:56:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): do you mean a separate vote at

[1:56:48] Voice 5: a later point no

[1:56:49] Voice 5: no like we're going to have a sin bylaw 122

[1:56:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): and we're going to vote on this.

[1:56:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): various changes this one will be

[1:56:55] Voice 9: a separate yeah yeah yeah

[1:56:56] Voice 4: i think because you want to vote yeah

[1:56:57] Voice 4: okay

[1:56:58] Voice 9: that's great so maybe even that so

[1:56:59] Voice 4: yeah so the table you want to vote separately separately

[1:57:03] Voice 4: on the table

[1:57:03] Voice 17: okay yeah put everything else together but you're okay with it being in all

[1:57:06] Voice 17: zones yes okay yeah i have whatever the table turns out to be yeah yeah okay um so where are

[1:57:14] Voice 17: we know we go down to page 80 and down to two point one three two point one

[1:57:24] Voice 17: three oh

[1:57:27] Voice 5: five point one five I

[1:57:28] Voice 17: had this marked down but I also noticed that Cam

[1:57:30] Voice 17: raised it about the wording is not less than and so as long if he's got it

[1:57:36] Voice 17: earmarked I don't need to speak to it yeah that is five point yeah

[1:57:42] Voice 5: can I speak

[1:57:43] Voice 5: speak to that for a second so again I'm looking at the red line because it's

[1:57:47] Voice 5: easier to follow so we've got the five point of five point one one clause five

[1:57:56] Voice 5: we just talked about that's the table itself now under five point one clause

[1:58:04] Voice 5: six the only thing that I thought was a little bit inconsistent with the wording

[1:58:09] Voice 5: we've used everywhere else and I don't know if you got your red light in front

[1:58:13] Voice 5: you kim but um it says despite section subsection 5.1 clause 5 on a lot that contains a legal

[1:58:19] Voice 5: dwelling constructed prior to the adoption of this bylaw oh i guess it's kind of saying the same

[1:58:24] Voice 5: other ones it was brackets date of this bylaw so i guess we'll do the same thing there that's just a

[1:58:31] Voice 5: i'm sorry steve i'm not sure the other thing that i thought should be picked up is

[1:58:35] Voice 5: on page 24 of the red line markup clause 9 5.1 clause 9 despite subsection 5 1 8

[1:58:44] Voice 5: the setback for a dwelling lot or cottage shall be 6 meters 20 feet from

[1:58:49] Voice 5: any interior or exterior I think it should say side lot line should it not

[1:58:54] Voice 5: because we because obviously that's different

[1:58:56] Voice 5: okay you're right and then

[1:58:58] Voice 5: that same wording side would be under the next clause 10 so that we're

[1:59:03] Voice 5: clarifying what I'm talking about

[1:59:05] Voice 17: on the fifth

[1:59:05] Voice 5: line yeah where it says you see

[1:59:08] Voice 5: that Kim yeah and then

[1:59:09] Voice 5: and then and then we're both saying the same thing is not

[1:59:12] Voice 5: less than yeah yeah 2

[1:59:16] Voice 17: .12 is there a 2

[1:59:20] Voice 9: .12 and under 2.13 we need to put the word

[1:59:25] Voice 9: sign or side before the words words that excludes colleges

[1:59:35] Voice 5: no cottage is it

[1:59:39] Voice 5: cottage it no the way we follow

[1:59:41] Voice 17: any any well

[1:59:42] Voice 5: yeah any dwelling is something to

[1:59:45] Voice 5: the 20-foot any chicken coop or a garage accessory buildings are 10 foot side

[1:59:49] Voice 5: yard setbacks cottages and houses are 20 foot side

[1:59:52] Voice 5: yard good yeah yeah

[1:59:53] Voice 12: Before, sorry, before the word.

[1:59:54] Voice 5: Then we'd be on that too.

[1:59:55] Voice 5: Yeah.

[1:59:56] Voice 17: Yeah, it was just getting more and more fuzzy.

[2:00:00] Voice 9: I mean, I think it's some side needs to go here. Exterior, side, walkway.

[2:00:05] Voice 5: Yeah. Here, Robert. Can I just wait just a brief moment? See right here, Robert?

[2:00:10] Voice 5: Oh,

[2:00:14] Voice 10: you're looking at...

[2:00:15] Voice 4: I'm looking at the amending, because this is what you're amending, right?

[2:00:17] Voice 10: Yeah.

[2:00:18] Voice 4: So it's 213. So

[2:00:19] Voice 10: you're at the point where you're just, you're at this point here.

[2:00:24] Voice 10: You're dealing with this, right? Yeah.

[2:00:25] Voice 10: Okay, so let's deal with this one first.

[2:00:27] Voice 4: Yeah, I've got that one. You've got one. Yeah, does not exceed. Okay.

[2:00:30] Voice 4: Okay.

[2:00:31] Voice 9: And then by adding the word side, before

[2:00:37] Voice 8: the words, plot line, words, and then brackets

[2:00:43] Voice 8: about plot line. Perfect.

[2:00:51] Voice 3: So technical. Yeah.

[2:00:53] Voice 5: I love these plot lines.

[2:00:54] Voice 3: There's so much to

[2:00:55] Voice 3: be here.

[2:00:55] Voice 5: It's less confusing than the other. Yeah.

[2:00:58] Voice 5: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[2:00:59] Voice 9: Okay. That's great.

[2:01:01] Voice 9: And as well, whenever you need to, it's to Section 2.5.

[2:01:12] Voice 5: Section 2.5 of the Land Use By-law?

[2:01:15] Voice 9: Sorry, the Amending By-law 122.

[2:01:18] Voice 5: And

[2:01:19] Voice 9: that's just by adding back in the words, except offense.

[2:01:24] Voice 2: Oh, right.

[2:01:25] Voice 9: And just

[2:01:25] Voice 9: for clarity, because I know that there's been some concern about that.

[2:01:30] Voice 17: It

[2:01:31] Voice 9: just is reiterating that those structures still are exempt from the setback to the natural.

[2:01:36] Voice 9: well

[2:01:36] Voice 17: it's funny you mention that because one of the things i want to do speaking of that right

[2:01:41] Voice 17: now is i would like to remove the words pump and utility house um in uh from the front setback of

[2:01:49] Voice 17: the proposed 50 feet because i quite frankly um the way the pump utility house is defined

[2:01:58] Voice 17: it's 32 feet this bylaw was written at a time when everybody had to use a jet pump

[2:02:04] Voice 17: for a pump to pull water out of fresh water nobody does that anymore because of freezing

[2:02:10] Voice 17: potential all that stuff everything is submersible pumps so I don't see the need anymore for a pump

[2:02:15] Voice 17: and utility house so I just like to see you know I would actually

[2:02:19] Voice 5: agree with that the only thing

[2:02:21] Voice 5: that I would say is that then we would want to have some you know you know this whole issue about

[2:02:27] Voice 5: legal non-conforming that we have like for somebody that built their house in 1972 and

[2:02:32] Voice 5: they've got a pump house that might be within 50 feet of the of the sea that that we do the same

[2:02:39] Voice 5: language so we we recognize it on the lot at the time of the bylaw so you

[2:02:45] Voice 4: think that would

[2:02:46] Voice 4: be pre-existing non-conforming okay okay for sure for sure but i agree with steve nobody needs a

[2:02:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): pump

[2:02:52] Voice 5: house anymore right it's correct yeah okay

[2:02:56] Voice 5: i agree i agree okay

[2:02:58] Trustee Luckham (probable): two of your pipes for use

[2:03:01] Voice 16: No, but

[2:03:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): everybody's got your

[2:03:03] Voice 5: submersible pump.

[2:03:04] Voice 16: Yeah, I've got a

[2:03:05] Trustee Luckham (probable): submersible pump, and I've got a pump hose.

[2:03:08] Voice 5: For the garden.

[2:03:09] Voice 17: Because

[2:03:09] Voice 10: I've got my pressure tank in there.

[2:03:10] Voice 17: Yeah.

[2:03:12] Voice 10: You also need to exclude it, though.

[2:03:14] Voice 17: You wouldn't put it in

[2:03:15] Voice 17: front of your house on a waterfront property, would you?

[2:03:17] Voice 10: Section.

[2:03:18] Voice 17: That's the point.

[2:03:19] Voice 5: And so what?

[2:03:21] Voice 5: No, mine's up in the woods.

[2:03:22] Voice 5: No, they can't.

[2:03:23] Voice 5: but to be clear on this one because a lot of people um have uh i mean maybe we can talk about

[2:03:30] Voice 5: what the objective is of this because i think most people that are building a new place would

[2:03:35] Voice 5: not put a pump house where it's in the view of the water but your motion would not prevent somebody

[2:03:40] Voice 5: from putting a pump house if they wanted within a side yard or a front yard setback

[2:03:44] Voice 5: it would not okay it's only the just the

[2:03:47] Voice 10: front 50 feet okay okay

[2:03:50] Voice 10: okay i

[2:03:50] Voice 10: wonder if i could just because if we're trying

[2:03:55] Voice 17: to protect so

[2:03:56] Voice 9: i i'm with you i just want

[2:03:57] Voice 9: to make sure we're sure that that's protected i just want to make sure that yeah and by removing

[2:04:02] Voice 9: the words pump utility house from section so

[2:04:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): how are we doing is there more i'm just gonna

[2:04:35] Voice 8: robert's

[2:04:35] Voice 9: just finishing one from section oh right i see actually you know what those

[2:04:55] Voice 9: parentheses there, after house, and you say, by adding...

[2:04:59] Voice 5: You're still able to get back what you just made?

[2:05:00] Voice 9: I don't know what we're doing.

[2:05:02] Voice 4: Because what we can do, like, don't...

[2:05:04] Voice 4: Okay, so this

[2:05:04] Voice 4: is changing the setback.

[2:05:06] Voice 4: Yeah.

[2:05:07] Voice 9: In

[2:05:07] Voice 4: section 3.3.

[2:05:09] Voice 4: It's a

[2:05:09] Voice 9: setback to the natural boundary of the C.

[2:05:11] Voice 9: Right, okay.

[2:05:12] Voice 9: So what they're wanting to do is pump utility house no longer exempt.

[2:05:17] Voice 9: But

[2:05:17] Voice 4: 2.5 adds that already, right?

[2:05:21] Voice 4: We've already done it.

[2:05:22] Voice 4: No,

[2:05:22] Voice 9: but this is their exception clause to all existing

[2:05:27] Voice 9: We still need it. So here I'll show you that

[2:05:29] Voice 5: it could just be big on

[2:05:30] Voice 5: What you what you're trying to do Steve is present somebody from building a brand-new pump house within 50 feet of the ocean

[2:05:39] Voice 5: Yeah,

[2:05:39] Voice 3: so

[2:05:40] Voice 5: I don't know if that makes a difference

[2:05:42] Voice 5: Kim and Robert

[2:05:44] Voice 5: You don't want a new pump hose. Yeah.

[2:05:46] Voice 5: Yeah within 50 feet

[2:05:48] Voice 5: And it's only the it's only the 50-foot setback to the sea not the side yard or front yard setback. Yeah, yeah

[2:05:54] Voice 1: But in

[2:05:54] Voice 1: reality, is anybody drilling a well 50 feet from here?

[2:05:58] Voice 1: I don't think so.

[2:05:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): All the more reason.

[2:06:00] Voice 1: And by reviewing the property.

[2:06:02] Voice 4: That's it.

[2:06:03] Voice 17: Okay, that's easy.

[2:06:05] Voice 17: That's pretty insane.

[2:06:06] Voice 17: It is.

[2:06:07] Voice 17: Because you're going to bring in salt water.

[2:06:09] Voice 17: And one of them has salt filters.

[2:06:11] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah, so they can't

[2:06:12] Voice 17: pump out of that well.

[2:06:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): It's like 100 feet below sea level.

[2:06:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yeah, and they can't pump water out of that well.

[2:06:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): It's illegal.

[2:06:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, is that it?

[2:06:21] Voice 6: It's illegal.

[2:06:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): You are not allowed to pump salt water out of a well. Oh really period well

[2:06:26] Voice 17: strange enough. They pump it into

[2:06:28] Voice 17: Okay, that's all you have so is that did they

[2:06:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): work any more men well? Yeah?

[2:06:33] Trustee Luckham (probable): No, it doesn't matter whether you pump it and put it

[2:06:36] Voice 17: in my knees. It's

[2:06:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): illegal. I know

[2:06:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): Because you're compromising the water table. I know right I know

[2:06:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): They should just run 50-foot hose to the ocean yeah,

[2:06:48] Voice 17: I know I know

[2:06:52] Voice 17: I know it's not

[2:06:54] Voice 3: it's not I

[2:06:55] Voice 17: know anyway now where were we we are on page top of

[2:07:03] Voice 17: page 81 2.18 can we leave this floor area of the cottage the same as

[2:07:14] Voice 17: everywhere else oh you're talking about the difference for agricultural land

[2:07:18] Voice 17: about 750 square feet that's

[2:07:23] Voice 9: where so that this is reflecting you're

[2:07:25] Voice 17: in the agricultural zone now

[2:07:26] Voice 17: but we can we're they don't care so i just like it to be consistent what

[2:07:33] Voice 4: what is the

[2:07:34] Voice 4: 170.

[2:07:35] Voice 5: this is this is 5

[2:07:37] Voice 5: .5 plus 10 is that the one that we're talking about 5

[2:07:40] Voice 9: .59

[2:07:43] Voice 9: nine nine well

[2:07:46] Voice 5: actually there's two right because 5.59 so the way i'm hearing it let's see 5.59

[2:07:54] Voice 5: would be so this one is going to be the same as any other well

[2:07:59] Voice 4: i haven't voted on that yet

[2:08:00] Voice 4: no

[2:08:00] Voice 5: fair enough but i think what steve's talking about is this one here should be

[2:08:04] Voice 5: should replicate the maximum size which i think is 751 or 753 everywhere else 753 753 that's right

[2:08:11] Voice 5: Okay.

[2:08:11] Voice 4: It's actually 510. Yeah. So it's 70 meters in the other zones?

[2:08:19] Voice 5: I believe it's 70.

[2:08:22] Voice 9: Yes, 70. 70 square meters, 753 square feet. That's a

[2:08:26] Voice 5: lot. Okay. Yeah. Now that all the people have left, can we shut the doors? Like is it cold in here? It is cold. Are you getting cold, Steve? Yeah. You're my old Dickensian glove. Do

[2:08:42] Voice 6: we have any beer? No.

[2:08:44] Voice 17: Okay, now down to 2.5.

[2:08:46] Voice 17: 2.20 or 2.20 this again goes to 300 square meters or 32 29 square feet well

[2:08:59] Voice 17: we're not selling cattle and that is once again a floor area for farm retail

[2:09:07] Voice 17: sales is absurd so I mean I'm pretty open to a size but I thought

[2:09:18] Voice 17: But a 600 square foot shed is plenty big enough to farm retail sales for anything that I've ever seen on this island.

[2:09:28] Voice 17: In fact, it's large because most of them just have six by four roadside stands.

[2:09:34] Voice 17: But if a farmer wants to get serious about it, then 600 feet is certainly big enough.

[2:09:41] Voice 5: This is where we're talking about we would allow 3,200 square foot of...

[2:09:45] Voice 5: Yeah, of

[2:09:47] Voice 17: a storefront.

[2:09:48] Voice 17: yeah I mean I think

[2:09:49] Voice 5: it is bigger

[2:09:50] Trustee Luckham (probable): than the house that it is yeah I think it's

[2:09:53] Voice 5: this is

[2:09:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): five point five one one yeah

[2:09:55] Voice 5: it's this one here up here yeah

[2:09:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): so 600

[2:09:59] Voice 9: square feet would be 56 square meters yeah

[2:10:02] Voice 17: does that seem small or too big or

[2:10:05] Voice 17: okay

[2:10:06] Voice 5: 600 square feet for for selling jellies I seem to be those seems it

[2:10:14] Voice 5: It seems pretty, I mean, I sell condos at 459 feet.

[2:10:21] Voice 17: There you go.

[2:10:23] Voice 17: Well, then, what do you think, 200, 300?

[2:10:27] Voice 17: Or just put a figure in and start talking to the...

[2:10:29] Voice 17: To me,

[2:10:30] Voice 5: if you had 500 square feet, it would be quite...

[2:10:36] Voice 5: I mean, a 500-square-foot area is...

[2:10:41] Voice 5: I don't know, maybe it's just a nice round number,

[2:10:43] Voice 5: but it seems to me that you can...

[2:10:45] Voice 5: it was 20 by 25 that's

[2:10:47] Voice 17: yeah that's pretty good

[2:10:48] Voice 5: that's a pretty good size a good size room

[2:10:51] Voice 5: okay okay 200 square feet consensus yeah and you can do that backward math in terms of what that

[2:10:56] Voice 5: works out here 47

[2:10:57] Voice 7: square meters

[2:10:58] Voice 5: oh 47 square meters okay thanks and

[2:11:04] Voice 17: then we drop down to 5.5

[2:11:07] Voice 17: 18. and same thing here 2.21 okay so this says uh accommodation buildings cannot exceed

[2:11:20] Voice 17: exceed 5%. That is huge. That's over 22,000 square feet on a 10-acre lot. And so, I think

[2:11:35] Voice 17: that if you want to use that cottage size of 90 square meters or 1,000 square feet,

[2:11:43] Voice 17: I think that's more applicable than 22,000. It's ridiculous for this. It's so out of

[2:11:53] Voice 17: proportion so

[2:11:54] Voice 9: you would rather see instead of a lot coverage you'd like a maximum floor area

[2:12:01] Voice 5: yeah do we have a good definition for agri-tourism and structures maybe we do

[2:12:07] Voice 5: that's all in the yeah

[2:12:08] Voice 17: we do so

[2:12:09] Voice 4: what was the floor area uh

[2:12:12] Voice 17: well it's uh i i thought um 969

[2:12:15] Voice 17: that 90 square meters would be big enough because if they're operating bed and breakfast and they

[2:12:21] Voice 17: need an extra room they could do a thousand square foot bunkhouse they're sleeping in a

[2:12:25] Voice 17: little cottage i just

[2:12:29] Voice 5: i just don't think

[2:12:30] Voice 17: agri-tourism is going to be a huge

[2:12:33] Voice 17: a huge item on because

[2:12:35] Voice 5: agri-tourism is different than housing for farm workers isn't it yes

[2:12:38] Voice 17: totally yeah yeah

[2:12:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah that's where the farmer run has weddings and exactly yeah

[2:12:44] Voice 17: this this yeah this

[2:12:45] Voice 17: is for guys to come out and do horseback riding and stuff like that which we we just don't have

[2:12:51] Voice 17: You're right. My parents have the same thing. They

[2:12:52] Voice 5: built a big thing for weddings. That's

[2:12:55] Voice 5: what they do.

[2:12:56] Voice 8: They call

[2:12:57] Voice 5: it agitourism.

[2:12:58] Voice 5: It's a total

[2:12:59] Voice 8: floor area.

[2:13:00] Voice 8: I don't know that it's agitourism accommodation.

[2:13:03] Voice 5: Agitourism accommodation?

[2:13:05] Voice 3: Yeah.

[2:13:07] Voice 3: So

[2:13:07] Voice 5: Steve, you're saying that agitourism accommodation, rather than limiting it to a site coverage, should limit to a maximum floor area.

[2:13:16] Voice 4: Consistent with a bed and breakfast.

[2:13:18] Voice 17: Consistent with what?

[2:13:19] Voice 17: bed

[2:13:19] Voice 4: and breakfast is that what you were linking it to well

[2:13:21] Voice 17: if if they're going to have more and they're running a bed and breakfast and they need to expand from that they can go into a cottage they can take it more flexible they

[2:13:29] Voice 4: can build a thousand square foot yeah yeah but

[2:13:33] Voice 17: we don't need a hotel

[2:13:33] Voice 4: yeah okay so 90 square meters yeah okay uh

[2:13:38] Voice 17: and then um page 82 right at 5.5.21

[2:13:44] Voice 17: one ten guests or ten bedrooms again I'd like to see that cut half limited to ten

[2:13:52] Voice 17: guests and five bedrooms that's

[2:13:59] Voice 5: a mini hotel at ten bedrooms yeah well it's one

[2:14:04] Voice 17: floor what there are bigger motels mm

[2:14:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): -hmm yeah this is so the other thing

[2:14:20] Voice 17: that we can I want to add is the definition of height the use of average

[2:14:27] Voice 17: has created a number of problems and run into bylaw infractions that have ended

[2:14:36] Voice 17: up either the Board of variants or ended up with our own bylaw enforcement

[2:14:42] Voice 17: agencies having to determine how how to resolve the issue how to get compliance

[2:14:47] Voice 17: kind of within or without the confines of the bylaw so in order to rectify that I just like

[2:14:57] Voice 17: to get rid of the word average because people start saying okay where's the average we say

[2:15:03] Voice 17: we've got a measure from the mid wall I think it's much easier if we simply define the height

[2:15:08] Voice 17: is the highest point of a structure to the to the natural grade and get rid of the average

[2:15:15] Voice 17: and where we measure it from.

[2:15:18] Voice 17: But where do you measure the natural grade from?

[2:15:20] Voice 17: Any point of the natural grade.

[2:15:22] Voice 17: So if you've got a natural grade, if you've got a sloping slot,

[2:15:26] Voice 17: if your building is anywhere from the highest point down to that natural grade...

[2:15:31] Voice 17: So the lowest point

[2:15:32] Voice 17: of the natural grade to the highest

[2:15:34] Voice 4: point of the building?

[2:15:35] Voice 17: There you go.

[2:15:36] Voice 4: So you're allowing higher buildings?

[2:15:39] Voice 17: Well, we're...

[2:15:40] Voice 17: Lower overall.

[2:15:42] Voice 17: Lower overall.

[2:15:46] Voice 17: Because if it's the lowest point here and the highest point here, what we're getting now is we're getting an average and we're using this and going up to a three-story, but down here it's a four-story.

[2:15:58] Voice 17: But it's a

[2:15:58] Voice 4: two-story at the back.

[2:15:59] Voice 17: Yeah, so what we want to do is reduce that overall height because what they're doing is they're going ahead and building it.

[2:16:06] Voice 17: it and it used to be this way because everybody had gable roofs and no and everybody realized that

[2:16:12] Voice 17: that was for an architectural feature wasn't living space now they've come out and every

[2:16:17] Voice 17: architecture you see is building flat roofs in order to get an extra floor in under the under

[2:16:23] Voice 17: the the height restriction so

[2:16:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): are you talking about steve yeah

[2:16:28] Voice 17: that's right that's the maximum

[2:16:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): them yeah

[2:16:31] Voice 17: and so what I'm trying to do is since since they found the loophole

[2:16:37] Voice 17: in the bylaw I think I think we should close it you

[2:16:41] Voice 5: know if you know it's

[2:16:41] Voice 5: interesting I've seen this too like if you have a high point here like a rock

[2:16:46] Voice 5: protrusion for example and you factor that into the grade it allows everything

[2:16:51] Voice 5: to go higher because it is

[2:16:53] Voice 5: no no but you measure measure adjacent to the up to

[2:16:57] Voice 5: the parameters because I think it's measured from the parameters of the four sides of the building

[2:17:01] Voice 4: right now so these kind of

[2:17:03] Voice 5: things can skew it and I guess those kind of things can skew it so

[2:17:10] Voice 5: in this case the the 30 feet would be from here to here well

[2:17:17] Voice 4: if if we can if we can

[2:17:19] Voice 4: a lot of

[2:17:20] Voice 4: bylaws do is they measure to the midpoint of the roof building popular

[2:17:36] Voice 5: because we don't have

[2:17:44] Voice 5: take a look at that definition because

[2:17:46] Voice 4: there are if the intent is I don't I'm

[2:17:48] Voice 5: not against it yeah

[2:17:49] Voice 4: it's reality

[2:17:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): how much difficulty is there with that my

[2:17:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): impression has always been in those situations it works I well

[2:18:04] Voice 17: we when I

[2:18:05] Voice 17: talked to the building inspector he said unless it's really obvious I don't know

[2:18:09] Voice 17: how to measure it he said because he said

[2:18:12] Voice 4: I know but

[2:18:16] Voice 17: to approve the plan but the plan is on a piece of paper but

[2:18:20] Voice 4: the plan should be

[2:18:21] Voice 4: we end up

[2:18:21] Voice 17: with the lot size you don't know what's coming because when we talk about say natural

[2:18:25] Voice 17: grade we've got an instance where we've got this high little pill box here that was too high it was

[2:18:32] Voice 17: over that and so what did they do they said well okay to comply all you do is burn up so he burned

[2:18:38] Voice 17: up he was allowed to continue but that is not natural he

[2:18:42] Voice 4: should not have been

[2:18:43] Voice 4: allowed to

[2:18:44] Voice 17: be should not have been

[2:18:44] Voice 4: all the way and and the buildings that you

[2:18:47] Voice 4: should not be measuring height he should be having the surveyor come back in the

[2:18:50] Voice 4: forms well

[2:18:50] Voice 17: yeah he does that but I just think if we can if we can get rid of as

[2:18:59] Voice 17: much ambiguity and make it as simple as possible and from everyone I've talked

[2:19:03] Voice 17: to averages creates a problem the

[2:19:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): dilemma you run into is that now when the building inspector comes

[2:19:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): to south pender he has a different parameter to spec than when he's on north pender

[2:19:15] Voice 17: well i know

[2:19:17] Voice 17: it's i mean

[2:19:17] Voice 17: if if if i went out to measure and i just turn around okay this is 30 feet high and

[2:19:23] Voice 17: here's the natural grade i can do it but if i have to go around okay this is this is this high and

[2:19:27] Voice 17: then the average over here and then i have to take in this consideration i just think just get rid of

[2:19:32] Voice 17: the average and measure if the idea is to is the idea was to limit it to a two-story building

[2:19:39] Voice 17: and now we're getting three stories and on like i said if the other thing if if we can

[2:19:45] Voice 17: from a strictly from a um a character perspective our coastlines are usually

[2:19:54] Voice 17: like that and so what's happening is we're getting people come along and build

[2:19:59] Voice 17: like that yeah and so this is fine and height is fine but on this side if we look at the ocean

[2:20:07] Voice 17: and if we are preserving and protecting for the entire province that character of our coastline

[2:20:13] Voice 17: from the viewpoint of the water is extremely important and all we're seeing is these towers

[2:20:19] Voice 17: and that's not what i'd consider to be a real character so i'd like to discourage that as much

[2:20:26] Voice 17: as possible so there's maybe other

[2:20:27] Voice 4: options like having a different like at no at no

[2:20:32] Voice 4: elevation should it exceed

[2:20:33] Voice 5: something you know

[2:20:35] Voice 5: could could we because i i can't even get on

[2:20:38] Voice 5: the internet right now could could we i think we get that i think we get the point yeah could we

[2:20:44] Voice 5: um have it rather than trying to make a decision right now look at some of those things so that we

[2:20:48] Voice 5: yeah

[2:20:49] Voice 3: yeah

[2:20:50] Voice 5: find an example okay

[2:20:51] Voice 17: i'd

[2:20:52] Voice 5: be happy with that yeah

[2:20:53] Voice 17: okay yeah i just want to make sure we

[2:20:55] Voice 17: address yeah thanks um you're done the only other question i have is this we have uh agricultural

[2:21:07] Voice 17: properties uh in varying sizes we've got 15 acres we've got 20 acres we've got uh 50 acres and 35

[2:21:14] Voice 17: they're not shared 39 or something um so i'm okay with with what cameron says i don't want to get

[2:21:23] Voice 17: fixated on the relation of a size of a building to the size of the property I

[2:21:29] Voice 17: think it's an important factor but I don't want to get fixated on because as

[2:21:32] Voice 17: far as the environment is concerned if you're taking a big chunk out of a large

[2:21:36] Voice 17: piece of property you're still damaging as much environment as if you put a

[2:21:39] Voice 17: small one in a small piece of property so if that's why I said I want it to be

[2:21:46] Voice 17: a factor but I don't want to get fixated on on the relationship between size and

[2:21:50] Voice 17: that stuff but given the size of a property if we have a 15 acre property it seems to make sense

[2:21:57] Voice 17: that if we have a 10 acre parcel or we have a larger piece of property that we need to designate

[2:22:04] Voice 17: some split there because if i go if i look at our bylaws as they are written

[2:22:11] Voice 17: we break it up on 10 acres or less or 10 acres above and if I have a 9.8 acre with a site

[2:22:21] Voice 17: coverage of 8% and I have 10 acres of the coverage of 3% I'm looking at 35,000 compared on a on a 9.8

[2:22:31] Voice 17: acre to a 13 5 square foot on a 10 acre parcel and that's just seems that seems a little out

[2:22:41] Voice 17: of proportion that you can have actually have more sight coverage on a smaller lot than you

[2:22:45] Voice 17: would on a bigger lot well

[2:23:06] Voice 5: i guess all i'm saying is let's say this is less than one acre right

[2:23:11] Voice 5: one acre or less and this is um so this is this is 10 acres plus this what was the other category

[2:23:19] Voice 5: is four to ten four to ten i mean you know when you talk about the environment doesn't know the

[2:23:26] Voice 5: difference if you look at at you know like density on square footage yeah 27

[2:23:33] Voice 5: well I'm just thinking about the collective of these you've got five

[2:23:40] Voice 5: acres here hypothetically and you've got this much density on it and and and so

[2:23:45] Voice 5: that's why I felt like a larger house of 4,000 square feet is collectively a lot

[2:23:54] Voice 5: a lot less dense of a footprint on a bigger property

[2:23:58] Voice 5: with a lot more potential for setbacks.

[2:24:00] Voice 5: That's why I felt like you can't take that number

[2:24:05] Voice 5: and say well this thing is 10 times as small

[2:24:09] Voice 5: so it's 400 square feet because somebody can't live in that.

[2:24:11] Voice 5: So you realize that you can't do a perfect mathematical

[2:24:15] Voice 5: scale between properties and so you're trying to find

[2:24:18] Voice 5: that balance in the middle which is why I felt like

[2:24:20] Voice 5: like, you know, how much mass can be intelligently or thoughtfully placed on a piece of land,

[2:24:30] Voice 5: and so again, that's why I felt smaller properties, and again, to your point about total buildable

[2:24:35] Voice 5: area, you know, a conversation I had with the Greens the other day, they made the point

[2:24:40] Voice 5: about if we kept with the four categories, and they're one to three acres, and they can

[2:24:48] Voice 5: can only build 6,000 square feet of total buildable area,

[2:24:51] Voice 5: but yet a less than one acre can build 5,000.

[2:24:54] Voice 5: They made a good point,

[2:24:55] Voice 1: I got it, right?

[2:24:56] Voice 5: And so it's a delicate thing

[2:25:00] Voice 5: because you're trying not to constrain people too much.

[2:25:06] Voice 5: Is 5,000 too much on less than one acre?

[2:25:09] Voice 5: Not necessarily, depending upon how it's dealt with.

[2:25:12] Voice 5: So I don't wanna start whittling away people's ability

[2:25:14] Voice 5: to have the choice to do different things.

[2:25:17] Voice 5: But I do think, again, we talked about today,

[2:25:19] Voice 5: a 20 000 square feet of buildable area is a pretty big big chunk so that's why i was

[2:25:24] Voice 5: i was comfortable with with 15 and i think this is nine and this is five

[2:25:32] Voice 5: and then there's the other ones in between but again to your point is density of the intensity

[2:25:38] Voice 5: of of development on smaller properties is actually you know a more intensive use than

[2:25:45] Voice 5: than 4,000 on 10 acres plus.

[2:25:48] Voice 5: Which is, but

[2:25:49] Voice 5: we're, yeah,

[2:25:50] Voice 17: we're given this.

[2:25:51] Voice 17: There's not much we can do about the sizes right now.

[2:25:54] Voice 17: So I'm just trying to see how do we preserve and protect

[2:25:56] Voice 17: the environment, the character, and all that stuff

[2:26:00] Voice 17: with what we have, right?

[2:26:02] Voice 17: I'm totally, you're absolutely right here.

[2:26:04] Voice 17: And that's why I say it's an important factor.

[2:26:06] Voice 17: I just said it's not the only factor.

[2:26:08] Voice 17: So that's why I wanted to kick that.

[2:26:11] Voice 17: So none of

[2:26:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): this addresses geography and buildable potential, because that same 4,000 square foot you may only be able to build on a one acre piece of a 10 acre parcel.

[2:26:24] Voice 5: Well, and again, we've talked about this so many times before you were here, Peter. One of the challenges that came

[2:26:29] Voice 17: into more of a point was setbacks.

[2:26:31] Voice 17: Yeah.

[2:26:32] Voice 5: I mean, everything to me, and I know a lot of people who maybe don't get the nuances of this, but there is, I mean, a land use bylaw is a very blunt instrument.

[2:26:44] Voice 5: We don't have we don't have the ability within our

[2:26:48] Voice 5: legislative authority to have

[2:26:50] Voice 5: the ability and we don't have the staff time to sit down and collectively work with people to say like you would do in a

[2:26:55] Voice 5: CD zone to come up with the best way

[2:26:58] Voice 5: of

[2:26:59] Voice 5: Developing a piece of property based on the natural characteristics of that right?

[2:27:03] Voice 5: We can't do it. So we have to have this blunt instrument where we try and figure out what's you know

[2:27:08] Voice 5: What are the baseline appropriate setbacks and house size and so forth?

[2:27:12] Voice 5: forth. Yeah, all of these things crop up, which is why, which is why I think to Steve's point,

[2:27:17] Voice 5: you know, and I'm trying to find that sweet spot between some people that say, don't tell me what

[2:27:22] Voice 5: to do with my property. I, I don't, I want full, I mean, I want like outright approval to do whatever

[2:27:29] Voice 5: I want. And if it pisses off the neighbors, if it's, if it's not properly cited, that's my business,

[2:27:33] Voice 5: my progress. Okay. So I accept there's that argument and then there's the idea about our

[2:27:37] Voice 5: rural character community values so where do we draw that line and so you know i think bringing

[2:27:42] Voice 5: the house sizes down a bit as as as we've done relative to the 2016 bylaw is is appropriate

[2:27:48] Voice 5: and it still gives that person that wants full unimpeded right to do whatever they want to do so

[2:27:55] Voice 5: but then we say if you want to build a bigger house than whatever it turns out to be 3500 or

[2:28:01] Voice 5: 4 000 let's have a conversation let's look at this in a way that we're taking into consideration more

[2:28:07] Voice 5: than just your absolute property rights and how it affects those around you and that's why under

[2:28:13] Voice 5: bylaw 123 steve and i said design guidelines which robert did a great job of helping us and kim

[2:28:20] Voice 5: drafting it's provide some guidance for how things go forward under under a situation where you want

[2:28:26] Voice 5: a bigger house so but a lot of people i think falsely saw that that that their the design

[2:28:34] Voice 5: guidelines would be a requirement for any house which is absolutely not true so that's one of

[2:28:38] Voice 5: the things that i hope people would come to realize through the community information meeting

[2:28:46] Voice 17: um yeah and i i agree that land use um bylaws are a blunt instrument but that's that's all we can

[2:28:53] Voice 17: then again the beauty of that is that we have a variance correct and that allows some softening

[2:29:00] Voice 17: of that right exactly exactly um but in in any case i think i i don't think this is the time

[2:29:08] Voice 17: to start going through the agriculture forestry stuff or the commercial but certainly the lot

[2:29:13] Voice 17: coverage is by percentage if you look at them i don't know where they i don't know where the

[2:29:19] Voice 17: figures came up from um i don't think this is the time to um to start getting into detailed

[2:29:24] Voice 17: amendments um but i think that is something that um i think we need to look at it because some of

[2:29:32] Voice 17: it by going by percentages like eight percent or three percent i think you might have an

[2:29:35] Voice 17: agricultural review on your projects list yeah yeah yeah yeah but even yeah and and also yeah

[2:29:41] Voice 17: we need to do that and also in uh uh forestry so okay so uh that would be it for this okay

[2:29:48] Voice 17: okay

[2:29:48] Voice 4: so um unless did you have any more no

[2:29:51] Voice 5: i think just just the edits that i

[2:29:53] Voice 5: already gave you about things like

[2:29:54] Voice 4: side okay so here's what i suggest um

[2:30:00] Voice 4: FTC wants to rescind first reading, and then consider the amendments that you had consensus on as a single amendment,

[2:30:08] Voice 4: and then if you want to move on to the ones there wasn't consensus on.

[2:30:12] Voice 4: And

[2:30:12] Voice 5: do that as a separate vote?

[2:30:13] Voice 5: Separate vote.

[2:30:14] Voice 5: If I

[2:30:15] Voice 9: may, we would have to re-refer Bible 122 out, so this would delay the process of a public hearing probably for at least,

[2:30:25] Voice 9: we now give about two months for first nations to comment on on bylaws so it couldn't delay

[2:30:32] Voice 9: a public hearing until july

[2:30:35] Voice 10: do

[2:30:36] Voice 17: they the first nations need two months i know they're busy

[2:30:40] Voice 17: and they got other stuff but and i don't say this i just certainly don't mean this in any

[2:30:45] Voice 17: disrespectful way but um i've been i've been told by people from los angeles people that have said

[2:30:53] Voice 17: they are so goddamn busy with stuff because suddenly they have all these

[2:31:00] Voice 17: considerations that they don't have they don't care what's going on they don't

[2:31:05] Voice 17: have half of them don't really want to comment because it doesn't so if if they

[2:31:13] Voice 17: don't mind that period being shortened up can is there any way we can do that

[2:31:18] Voice 17: or request them as if you're not

[2:31:21] Voice 6: trying to respond

[2:31:21] Voice 17: if you're not interested can

[2:31:23] Voice 17: you let us know as soon as possible yep

[2:31:25] Voice 9: yeah i mean and then we

[2:31:26] Voice 17: i don't want to rush them i mean

[2:31:27] Voice 5: i guess the other question i would have is is so bylaw 122 as currently drafted was sent out to

[2:31:35] Voice 5: them

[2:31:35] Voice 3: we gave

[2:31:36] Voice 5: them a certain amount of time did we ever get any comments back no and so i don't see

[2:31:42] Voice 5: like if i think about the the comments that we're looking at today how they the amendments how they

[2:31:48] Voice 5: They differ in a substantive way from what they were already given an opportunity to

[2:31:53] Voice 5: comment on.

[2:31:53] Voice 5: I mean, I find that if anything, it's maybe in some ways even further protecting the rural

[2:32:01] Voice 5: character in some respects.

[2:32:02] Voice 5: The one referral we have to do is to the ALC.

[2:32:06] Voice 4: And

[2:32:07] Voice 9: they usually get 30 days.

[2:32:08] Voice 4: They get 30 days, yeah.

[2:32:09] Voice 9: So the option then is we could potentially, there could be a special meeting or in light

[2:32:15] Voice 9: of the agenda for the 24th and xltc meeting but the only items on the agenda would be these two

[2:32:21] Voice 9: projects so we could i

[2:32:24] Voice 5: just don't want to wait two months and put ourselves in a situation yeah well

[2:32:27] Voice 9: june 24th is a month and

[2:32:29] Voice 4: a half away we don't want to commit to a particular date because we have to

[2:32:33] Voice 4: find a venue right so let's deal with the amendments first and then

[2:32:37] Voice 17: we'll talk about

[2:32:38] Voice 17: And in fact, in all honesty, I think it would be to a huge benefit just in confidence and in trust of the community if we did take the time to ensure that we do have some community information meetings in a better venue, and we're not going to be able to do that within, we could maybe get two in 30 days, but I think it's going to take that long to time.

[2:33:06] Voice 17: and i i think i think we've got to do it in other ways but

[2:33:10] Voice 5: the community information meeting um

[2:33:12] Voice 5: doesn't need like we could we could hold that i mean jane's point was you know we should have them

[2:33:19] Voice 5: on separate dates so if if there's a certain timeline such as referrals of the alc that's

[2:33:26] Voice 5: going to dictate the date that we can hold a public hearing fair enough that that that that

[2:33:31] Voice 5: date will be that date but could we not um prior to that date of the public hearing then hold

[2:33:38] Voice 5: community information meetings oh

[2:33:40] Voice 17: yeah yeah that's what i mean yeah interim yeah so we're not we're

[2:33:44] Voice 17: not we're not going to get a public hearing going before 30 days

[2:33:47] Voice 4: i haven't done any meeting

[2:33:49] Voice 4: amendments yet yeah right so yeah correct

[2:33:51] Voice 17: correct proceed

[2:33:53] Voice 4: to that okay and discuss and

[2:33:55] Voice 5: i guess the

[2:33:55] Voice 5: other thing i'm thinking is um just on you know do we so bylaw 122 does not need to go

[2:34:02] Voice 5: for ministerial approval whereas bylaw 123 does um unless steve has some changes so we gave bylaw

[2:34:12] Voice 5: 123 first reading on on march the 4th whatever day it was um unless there's changes that steve

[2:34:19] Voice 5: wants to make could we not like let's say hypothetically we can

[2:34:23] Voice 5: give a second reading today

[2:34:25] Voice 5: We could, or I guess what I'm thinking is we could, on the date that we're having a community information meeting on By-law 122, could we not have a community information meeting and a public hearing on By-law 123?

[2:34:42] Voice 5: Because that one has a longer timeline for approval because it's got to go to the minister.

[2:34:46] Voice 4: Yeah, potentially, yeah.

[2:34:48] Voice 5: You know what, I'm trying

[2:34:49] Voice 4: to understand just all the constraints here.

[2:34:50] Voice 4: Can the LTC just deal with the amendments?

[2:34:53] Voice 4: Sure, yeah, sure.

[2:34:54] Voice 4: yeah yeah

[2:34:55] Voice 17: okay so I'll move that the South Pender Island Trust Committee

[2:34:59] Voice 17: rescind bylaw for first reading of bylaw 122 so

[2:35:04] Trustee Luckham (probable): moved and seconded

[2:35:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): camera's on seconded any discussion all those in favor that carries okay and then

[2:35:11] Voice 17: okay I move the South Pender Island Trust Committee give first reading to

[2:35:18] Voice 17: First,

[2:35:19] Voice 4: you have to make the amendment.

[2:35:20] Voice 4: Oh,

[2:35:21] Voice 17: that we amend bylaw 122 as discussed.

[2:35:26] Voice 4: Okay.

[2:35:26] Voice 4: And I'll just summarize quickly those changes.

[2:35:29] Voice 4: So the 2.4 in bylaw 122, adding the words, and by removing, or sorry, by removing the words, pump utility house.

[2:35:47] Voice 4: 2.5 adding the words except for a fence stairway wharf and dock ramps and their

[2:35:53] Voice 4: footings after buildings and structures so that doesn't include a pump and

[2:35:57] Voice 4: utility house in the setback from the scene yeah

[2:35:59] Voice 17: they're still allowed no

[2:36:02] Voice 4: they're not allowed in the setback from the scene the

[2:36:04] Voice 17: pump house pump and house

[2:36:05] Voice 17: yeah but everything

[2:36:06] Voice 4: else is good yeah thank you

[2:36:08] Voice 4: 2.7 deleting except for a lot located within the ALR the combined floor area

[2:36:16] Voice 4: must not exceed blah blah blah blah deleting all of that provision 2.8 which

[2:36:23] Voice 4: is rainwater catchment requirements to read a building permit shall not be

[2:36:28] Voice 4: issued for a dwelling excluding a cottage unless the building on the lot

[2:36:33] Voice 4: is equipped with cisterns for freshwater storage with a minimum storage capacity

[2:36:39] Voice 4: of 18,000 metres. 2.12 just adding line for lot line, side lot line. 2.13

[2:36:51] Voice 4: removing the word does not exceed and replacing it with lot not less than and

[2:36:58] Voice 4: adding the word side before lot lines. Is that right? Is it side lot lines? Side, yeah.

[2:37:05] Voice 4: 2.18 change the floor area of a cottage, this is in the agricultural zone, to 70 square

[2:37:10] Voice 4: meters to 20 change the for retail sales floor area change the floor maximum

[2:37:19] Voice 4: floor area 500 square feet 2.21 5.5 18 delete lot covering 5% 5% and replace

[2:37:35] Voice 4: with a floor area of 90 square meters and same 2.21 5.5 21 change to maximum

[2:37:45] Voice 4: the maximum of five guests in five bedrooms ten

[2:37:48] Voice 5: guests ten guests ten guests two

[2:37:50] Voice 4: ten guests

[2:37:51] Voice 4: in five bedrooms no

[2:37:52] Voice 17: you're not keep the ten keep the ten guests ten guests um two and

[2:37:57] Voice 17: five bedrooms and five bedrooms okay you're

[2:38:01] Voice 9: going from that ten bedrooms to five bedrooms

[2:38:03] Voice 9: okay

[2:38:04] Voice 4: that's it yeah okay the

[2:38:05] Voice 9: only thing is you're adding the word side here not that

[2:38:10] Voice 9: yeah okay

[2:38:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): so that's a motion as to amend the bylaw 122 as amended with that descriptor

[2:38:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): David first reading yeah as amended no oh no sorry don't you amend it oh we're amending it yeah

[2:38:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): right so to amend the motion uh that moved and seconded okay and then all those in favor

[2:38:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): all right now we need to do first reading table the table you want that is

[2:38:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): a separate yeah discussion okay so Steve I

[2:38:59] Voice 17: move the bylaw 122 table of 2.9 be

[2:39:05] Voice 17: amended as discussed and

[2:39:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): do you want to characterize that yeah kind of Kojima

[2:39:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah

[2:39:16] Voice 4: by changing the maximum so it would now read section 2.9 now read there be

[2:39:24] Voice 4: five rows less than one

[2:39:27] Voice 4: acre the 5,000 square foot for all buildings 2,500

[2:39:31] Voice 4: maximum for dwellings 1 to 2 acres 6,000 and 3,000 square feet respectively 2 to

[2:39:40] Voice 4: four acres 8,000 and 3,500 square feet respectively four to ten acres 9,000

[2:39:48] Voice 4: square feet and 3,500 respectively and ten plus acres 15,000 and 3,500 that's

[2:39:55] Voice 4: correct right

[2:39:56] Voice 5: point not point of order but just a clarifying question is it

[2:40:03] Voice 5: possible because a number of things have changed since since over the last period

[2:40:08] Voice 5: of time we're down seemingly from four to five categories and and we've got two two separate

[2:40:13] Voice 5: areas two separate numbers for discussion one being the maximum dwelling size and one being

[2:40:18] Voice 5: the total buildable on a property there may subject to well we'll see how the vote goes but

[2:40:24] Voice 5: there may be alignment on the numbers as it relates the total area that you could build on

[2:40:31] Voice 5: each lot and there may be some disagreement onto the maximum house size so is it possible to break

[2:40:36] Voice 5: goes into two votes do

[2:40:39] Voice 17: you have to well

[2:40:40] Voice 5: i guess what i'm saying if i'm just to be frank here

[2:40:43] Voice 5: i agree with the numbers oh

[2:40:45] Voice 17: i see i agree with the numbers of the floor area

[2:40:48] Voice 5: i don't think there's

[2:40:49] Voice 5: any

[2:40:49] Voice 17: difference it's a lot easier just to agree with the floor area then buddy i mean i i think

[2:40:56] Voice 17: the only reason for this motion is because you want to go on record as being opposed

[2:40:59] Voice 5: well i no

[2:41:00] Voice 5: no i mean i really do i mean it's a principal thing i as i try to draw on the

[2:41:04] Voice 5: board i i just

[2:41:05] Voice 5: do believe that um that again as i graphically represented that um a larger property of of more

[2:41:14] Voice 5: than 10 acres but

[2:41:14] Voice 17: can't you make that point at the hearing can i have a community information meeting

[2:41:19] Voice 17: and some because and then if we get this in and like i said i think i think as i said it's easier

[2:41:27] Voice 17: to go up than it is to go down and i'd rather go down and encourage people to make a variance

[2:41:34] Voice 17: to open up the discussion for adjacent property owners and if people say no no

[2:41:39] Voice 17: no no then at the

[2:41:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): end of the

[2:41:41] Voice 17: day make your argument you have the ability to

[2:41:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): make a motion to say

[2:41:44] Trustee Luckham (probable): I want that square footage area up to 4,000 square feet and

[2:41:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): then that would go to a vote and would be defeated or supported you would sure

[2:41:53] Trustee Luckham (probable): I guess when

[2:41:55] Voice 5: I wrote it you're

[2:41:55] Voice 17: already on record at the last meetings of

[2:41:57] Voice 5: supporting your fair except I wanted to also let people know like those that

[2:42:01] Voice 5: were worried that i agree that adding that fifth category adding it

[2:42:05] Voice 5: back in makes sense and giving

[2:42:06] Voice 5: people the the additional area for chicken coops and bars and so forth okay so that's fine it's not

[2:42:13] Trustee Luckham (probable): a

[2:42:13] Voice 5: great way to articulate that outside of speaking to people yeah yeah fair enough okay okay

[2:42:20] Voice 17: so add

[2:42:21] Voice 17: that into the amended motion or do you want to still want a separate one and would just agree

[2:42:25] Voice 17: to that well

[2:42:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): we've already done that so this is

[2:42:27] Voice 17: now a second

[2:42:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): motion all right and so that's moved

[2:42:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): it's been

[2:42:30] Trustee Luckham (probable): seconded and you're clear on what it is the one i read out yeah yeah yeah so then i'll

[2:42:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): call the boat hold some paper that carries so now we want one more oh yeah one more yeah i didn't

[2:42:43] Voice 4: know that uh nope uh the table will be applied to the agriculture forestry and natural resource

[2:42:49] Voice 4: zones correct

[2:42:50] Voice 17: yes i so move

[2:42:51] Voice 5: or second oh

[2:42:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): so what are we so moving there

[2:42:55] Voice 5: well these things that

[2:42:57] Voice 5: were otherwise applicable to the rr zones uh well this so

[2:43:03] Trustee Luckham (probable): the table 5.15 be applied to agricultural

[2:43:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): and commercial agriculture and forestry for forestry and natural okay just for the public's

[2:43:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): benefit that the motion should be yeah you want to read that back yeah thank

[2:43:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): you it's moving seconded

[2:43:27] Voice 4: the bylaw 122 be amended to apply the table not the section in there 5.5.5.1 to the agriculture

[2:43:39] Voice 4: forest and natural resource zones so moved

[2:43:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): and seconded by canada any further discussion

[2:43:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): all those in favor that carries unanimously so is that it for the amendments no

[2:43:52] Voice 17: i moved the

[2:43:53] Voice 17: Did the Sillipender Island Trust Committee request staff to look into examples of restricting height?

[2:44:06] Trustee Luckham (probable): Maybe we should just, let's deal with them, with the amendments first, and then we'll come to that one.

[2:44:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): Because now we need to provide first reading to bylaw number 122 as amended.

[2:44:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): oh

[2:44:21] Voice 17: the height thing okay yeah it's not the height would be okay it'll be

[2:44:24] Voice 17: amended later all right yeah I'll move first reading yeah

[2:44:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): but I don't want to

[2:44:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): to second it second any further discussion all those in favor okay that

[2:44:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): carries so now you want more research that we'll discuss later yeah okay

[2:44:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): carried

[2:44:51] Voice 4: so the amendment was carried yeah yeah or the first reading was

[2:44:54] Trustee Luckham (probable): carried as amended

[2:44:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): yeah so now Steve has a new motion about building

[2:45:00] Trustee Luckham (probable): Can staff be requested to report back

[2:45:03] Voice 4: with options to address issues with height, natural grade, and flat roof buildings?

[2:45:16] Voice 4: Excellent. How's that?

[2:45:21] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay, so that's moved. You're clear on that? So is that seconded? Cameron's on?

[2:45:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): Yes.

[2:45:27] Trustee Luckham (probable): And any further discussion? All those in favour? Then that too carries.

[2:45:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): well I can't help but wonder and I read this in one of the submissions from the

[2:45:39] Trustee Luckham (probable): public is that and I'm paraphrasing that given that 80% of the properties

[2:45:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): developed on South Pender there's only 20% properties remaining how many of

[2:45:49] Trustee Luckham (probable): those 20% are relevant to that and is it really worth the effort to perhaps

[2:45:55] Trustee Luckham (probable): mystify it further as opposed to dealing with the clarity yeah

[2:46:00] Voice 17: and I think that's

[2:46:02] Voice 17: that's clear but it's kind of like the argument 8% of the houses haven't burned

[2:46:06] Voice 17: down to so do we need a fire department what we're seeing now is that it's not

[2:46:13] Voice 17: just new construction which people are talking about let's apply to everybody

[2:46:16] Voice 17: on the undeveloped lots what we're getting is redevelopment of existing

[2:46:20] Voice 17: lots and so we want and that would be an existing footprint

[2:46:24] Voice 3: you know right the

[2:46:28] Voice 3: existing

[2:46:29] Voice 17: bill if they tear the building down

[2:46:30] Voice 3: they have to comply

[2:46:31] Voice 17: they have to comply with most of

[2:46:33] Voice 3: the houses here

[2:46:34] Voice 17: 60s i don't know who can afford

[2:46:37] Voice 4: to do that well anyway silly

[2:46:41] Voice 17: money we we're going

[2:46:43] Voice 4: to have to leave soon okay for the ferry i was wondering about that yes um it's a little bit

[2:46:48] Voice 4: earlier today than normal being friday um and we've got that to deal with so we had to start

[2:46:55] Voice 4: thinking about packing up um so

[2:46:59] Trustee Luckham (probable): we'll let these guys put stuff away yeah

[2:47:01] Voice 4: yeah yeah we need a

[2:47:02] Voice 4: discussion about the logistics of the public hearing of the public hearing okay but what

[2:47:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): about what's left on

[2:47:08] Voice 4: our agenda here

[2:47:09] Trustee Luckham (probable): we're not going to talk about

[2:47:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): the land use bylaw that's

[2:47:12] Trustee Luckham (probable): what that's that's what we're

[2:47:13] Voice 5: gonna we're not going to talk about any further about but we've

[2:47:16] Voice 5: already dealt we're not talking about the official community plan no no make any amendments that's

[2:47:22] Voice 5: That's what I was saying earlier, Peter, is whether or not we find a way to potentially have the public hearing to break out the timelines between public hearings on 122 and 123, have the public hearing on 123 at the next available opportunity.

[2:47:37] Voice 5: It doesn't need as much time because we didn't make any amendments to it, and it has a longer approval timeline because it's got to go to the minister.

[2:47:44] Voice 5: So try

[2:47:44] Voice 5: and do it at the date that we would have a public information meeting on 122, we'd have the public hearing on 123.

[2:47:51] Voice 5: 23.

[2:47:52] Voice 4: yeah potentially a little people might be confused by that well

[2:47:56] Voice 17: frankly if i if you look

[2:47:57] Voice 17: at the amendments okay so they're to do with policies and they're not mandatory so i don't

[2:48:04] Voice 17: see how people can argue against it unless i mean they're here for information right yeah

[2:48:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): what's our

[2:48:10] Trustee Luckham (probable): drop dead time here what do we have i think 10 after probably okay because a couple

[2:48:16] Trustee Luckham (probable): of things that here that we need to deal with is we need to deal with the draft annual report

[2:48:24] Trustee Luckham (probable): There are Board of Valiants member appointments, and I don't know if there's a necessity to

[2:48:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): act on that right now, but that would be a good thing to have done.

[2:48:32] Voice 17: Yeah, I'd like to, I mean, yeah, I've got some concerns about that for sure.

[2:48:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): So what I'm hearing is we're not going to make any further amendments to the Official

[2:48:40] Trustee Luckham (probable): Committee Plan, and all these other items we'll just be receiving for information.

[2:48:45] Trustee Luckham (probable): So we just need to fast track this.

[2:48:47] Trustee Luckham (probable): okay so

[2:48:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): we've done on we are done on the luv yeah no

[2:48:52] Voice 4: because about the timing of the public

[2:48:54] Voice 4: there's a

[2:48:54] Voice 4: venue and what about uh community information meetings held by zoom perhaps

[2:49:01] Voice 4: as a special meeting one by zoom one in person yeah and is it

[2:49:09] Voice 4: acceptable to schedule the public

[2:49:11] Voice 4: hearing start scheduling the public hearing and try and look for if there's availability

[2:49:15] Voice 4: poets Cove in that big board room there the big meeting room well can you

[2:49:20] Voice 17: confirm that and then we'll base our will base our timing schedule based on

[2:49:24] Voice 17: the availability of that room because we might have to move up to the Anglican

[2:49:28] Voice 17: Church Hall

[2:49:29] Voice 9: where

[2:49:30] Voice 17: is that you mean on north yeah yeah so

[2:49:33] Voice 9: then the motion to

[2:49:34] Voice 9: schedule special meetings for community information meeting and public and

[2:49:38] Trustee Luckham (probable): public here so a lot of these details we can do outside of this group we just

[2:49:42] Trustee Luckham (probable): I just need to tell

[2:49:43] Voice 17: you to schedule.

[2:49:44] Voice 17: Yeah.

[2:49:44] Voice 17: On the motion schedule.

[2:49:45] Voice 17: I move that the South Bender Island Trust Committee request staff to find venues and

[2:49:53] Voice 17: schedule community information meetings and a public hearing on bylaw 122123 at the earliest

[2:50:01] Voice 17: convenience.

[2:50:02] Voice 17: And

[2:50:02] Voice 5: then, of course, the other thing that would be great is for those that don't want

[2:50:08] Voice 5: to be physically present even if we're in a larger room if we can obviously make make uh

[2:50:13] Voice 5: make the meeting yeah

[2:50:15] Trustee Luckham (probable): using using so so yeah first of all zooming

[2:50:18] Trustee Luckham (probable): in first well presumably

[2:50:19] Trustee Luckham (probable): if we're in college

[2:50:20] Voice 4: cove they've got adequate internet access yeah yeah

[2:50:22] Trustee Luckham (probable): we can do that that's

[2:50:23] Voice 4: right it's just we just have to have this so it's someone uh managing that yeah okay okay so

[2:50:29] Voice 4: and separate cim like a cim for one i'm starting one two three now cim and then a later public

[2:50:36] Voice 4: hearing at a different time. Right. Because the

[2:50:40] Voice 17: CIM can happen later. I actually prefer to have them

[2:50:42] Voice 4: together because it just... Well, there always will be one in advance of

[2:50:45] Voice 17: the public hearing. I think we should have another separate one anyway. For each bylaw?

[2:50:49] Voice 17: No, for 1-2-2. 1-2-2. That's what

[2:50:51] Trustee Luckham (probable): I'm saying. Yeah. So for 1-2-2, separate one from 1-2-3 or whatever it is. What other numbers are there?

[2:50:56] Voice 17: No, I mean a separate CIM from

[2:50:59] Voice 17: the public hearing date.

[2:51:01] Trustee Luckham (probable): Okay. Yeah.

[2:51:02] Voice 17: Because we can have that in a couple weeks.

[2:51:04] Voice 5: Yeah, that's true. We can advance that right away.

[2:51:07] Voice 5: and and I guess you'll do a new updated red line of the bylaw to that would be

[2:51:11] Voice 5: helpful yeah and

[2:51:12] Voice 5: I think yeah if we have that you know early it might it might

[2:51:16] Voice 5: clear up a lot of things that people came

[2:51:18] Voice 5: here that they had concerns over so

[2:51:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): is that a motion yeah yeah so moved trustee right trustee Thorne seconded

[2:51:26] Trustee Luckham (probable): all those in favor okay so then that concludes the LUV yeah and we're not

[2:51:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): doing anything further with the OCP at this time no and so I'm gonna say that

[2:51:36] Trustee Luckham (probable): we're going to receive for information items of 14 1 14 2 14 3 14 4 and 14 6

[2:51:48] Trustee Luckham (probable): stress conservancy report the important work that they do on behalf of that

[2:51:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): house trust so the next item here is 15.1 draft annual report wording for

[2:51:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): approval this is the annual report is that are you satisfied with what's

[2:52:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): proposed here and you want to make some amendment it's really this is a simple

[2:52:08] Trustee Luckham (probable): highlights kind of a thing for the annual report okay so then do you need a motion to that no so

[2:52:17] Trustee Luckham (probable): we'll just say that they by general consent the LTC approved the draft annual report wording our

[2:52:25] Trustee Luckham (probable): next meeting regular meeting will be on June the 24th and we look forward to information regarding

[2:52:31] Trustee Luckham (probable): regarding future community information public hearing no town hall at the very moment so I'm

[2:52:37] Trustee Luckham (probable): going to ask for a motion to go in camera and that's on your agenda cover page okay okay so

[2:52:43] Trustee Luckham (probable): moved I don't have the wording from the meeting I'll move that the meeting be close to the public

[2:52:46] Trustee Luckham (probable): in accordance with the community charter part 4 division 3 section 97 section 1 AD the purpose

[2:52:52] Trustee Luckham (probable): of considering adoption of camera meeting minutes dated February 4th appointment of board of variants

[2:52:57] Trustee Luckham (probable): members and the recording staff remain in the meeting so can i ask you a question before you

[2:53:02] Trustee Luckham (probable): do that i'm sure

[2:53:03] Voice 5: so the camera that's been running here does it continue to run you're

[2:53:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): ahead of the

[2:53:07] Trustee Luckham (probable): game so i am now going to stop the recording okay okay and i'm also going to report that we will

[2:53:14] Trustee Luckham (probable): not be reconvening the public meeting and we'll be rising and reporting out from this meeting

[2:53:20] Trustee Luckham (probable): at our next that's how I do it and so I'm to adjourn no I'll move to we're

[2:53:28] Trustee Luckham (probable): just adjourn when we come out of the home

[2:53:30] Voice 1: because we actually come out of it

[2:53:31] Voice 1: and then adjourn but we won't

[2:53:32] Trustee Luckham (probable): be re-recording the rest of the meeting

[2:53:35] Trustee Luckham (probable): that's just for transparency so I'm going to stop the recording

South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting Minutes 
May 6, 2022 ADOPTED Page 1 of 9 
 
 
South Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Regular Meeting 
 
Date: 
Location: 
May 6, 2022 
South Pender Fire Hall 
8961 Gowlland Point Road, South Pender Island, BC 
 
Members Present: Peter Luckham, Chair 
 Steve Wright, Trustee 
 Cameron Thorn, Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Robert Kojima, Regional Planning Manager 
 Kim Stockdill, Island Planner 
 Lauren Edwards, Recorder (by recorded media) 
  
 28 members of the public were in attendance 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Luckham called the meeting to order at 11:05 am.  He introduced himself and explained 
that Chair Patrick has resigned for personal reasons and that he is now chair for South Pender 
Local Trust Committee (LTC).   
He acknowledged that the meeting was being held in traditional territory of the Coast Salish 
First Nations and that May 5, 2022 was a day of recognition and mourning for missing 
indigenous First Nations women and children.  He commented on the culturally rich area in 
which we live and the opportunity to learn its history.   
He apologized for the technical challenges (no internet and live streaming). 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
 Staff reported that there was correspondence received by the Local Trust Committee (LTC) 
in the hours prior to the meeting; and 
 Chair Luckham asked that this additional correspondence which relate to the proposed 
bylaws 122 and 123 be taken into consideration for the purpose of the public hearing 
record.   
By general consent the agenda was approved as presented. 
  
A D O P T E D 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting Minutes 
May 6, 2022 ADOPTED Page 2 of 9 
 
3. TRUSTEE REPORT 
Trustee Wright reported that: 
 There is a good deal of development occurring and that a request was made to staff that 
development applications be referred to trustees for comment prior to approval;    
 He commented on a concern regarding a property scheduled for blast work on which active 
eagle nesting was confirmed.  Staff were informed and contacted the Provincial BC Wildlife 
Branch and the work was temporarily halted for the safety of the hatchlings. 
 
Trustee Thorn reported that: 
 There is ongoing dialogue with the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure (MoTI) for 
information to be conveyed regarding timelines and plans for work on “the dip” and that 
wait times are up to a half hour.   
4. CHAIR'S REPORT 
Chair Luckham reported that: 
 Islands Trust Council is scheduled to meet June 21 to 23.  There will be early reporting on 
the concluded Phase Three of the 2050 Policy Statement Review and the Governance 
Review will also be considered; and    
 Regarding the anchorages issue, he met with the Port of Vancouver for the purpose of 
engagement in response to the federal government’s direction that the Port address 
efficiencies and impacts of vessels anchoring in the Salish Sea.   
5. TOWN HALL AND QUESTIONS 
Members of the public raised the following issues: 
 Emergency preparedness plan as it relates to the issue of “the dip” and bridge was 
discussed.  Discussed the community supports available through the Emergency Program; 
 Request to address Chair Patrick’s resignation, and the ability of Chair Luckham to proceed 
with bylaws.  Chair Luckham addressed the role of the meeting chair and his preparation; 
 It was questioned why the bylaw change was not put forward to a vote of the population 
affected.  Chair Luckham addressed this issue and stated the Islands Trust Act empowers 
trustees to make decisions through public consultation and that voices will be listened to; 
and 
 Discussion occurred that the venue is too small and that some people did not attend due to 
concerns of Covid.  It was commented that the meeting was being recorded, but not 
streamed as there is no internet connectivity.  Discussed options including deferring the 
meeting to a larger venue.   
  

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting Minutes 
May 6, 2022 ADOPTED Page 3 of 9 
 
SP-2022-022 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the Public Hearing for Bylaw Nos. 122 and 123 be delayed to a later date. 
CARRIED  
(1 opposed) 
 
--------------------------------------------------Recessed for 10 minutes-------------------------------------------- 
6. COMMUNITY INFORMATION MEETING 
Deferred. 
7. PUBLIC HEARING  
 Deferred. 
8. MINUTES 
8.1 Adopted Local Trust Committee Minutes Dated March 4, 2022 (for Adoption) 
By general consent the Local Trust Committee meeting minutes of March 4, 2022 were 
adopted as presented. 
8.2 Section 26 Resolutions-without-meeting - None 
8.3 Advisory Planning Commission Minutes – None 
Chair Luckham advised that an Advisory Planning Commission should be appointed.    
9. BUSINESS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES 
9.1 Follow-up Action List Dated April 2022 
Received for information.   
10. DELEGATIONS - None 
11. CORRESPONDENCE 
Correspondence received concerning current applications or projects is posted on the LTC 
webpage. 
11.1 Electoral Boundaries Commission 
March 3, 2022 letter from Justice Nitya Iyer, Commission Chair, to Councillor Sue Ellen 
Fast, Island Municipality of Bowen Island, regarding the province’s current electoral 
district boundaries - received for information. 
  

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting Minutes 
May 6, 2022 ADOPTED Page 4 of 9 
 
12. APPLICATIONS AND REFERRALS 
12.1 SP-ALR-2021.1 and SP-ALR-2022.1 – Staff Report  
Planner Stockdill summarized the application and recommended requesting the 
applicant to provide additional information.   
Applicant, Taylor Johnson, representing the property owners, spoke to the application 
and the property owners’ intention to formalize the subdivision for the two dwellings.  
Specifically, 
 Farm activity:  no current farming activities, considered horse and sheep but not 
feasible; 
 Agricultural capability impact:  nothing contemplated that would impact the 
agricultural portion, road is existing, would not require significant alteration; 
 No means to access residential portion of lot without going through agricultural 
portion; and  
 Covenant will restrict dwellings on agricultural portion. 
Trustee Thorn asked about Agricultural Land Commission (ALC) process and confirmed 
that there would be no subdivision within the ALR portion.  
Trustee Wright commented that the property has never been an active farm.  The 
property has greater subdivision potential than being requested, access has always been 
there, access is maintenance only.  He has no issues advancing to Agricultural Land 
Commission (ALC). 
Chair Luckham asked about adding restrictions in covenant to prevent further 
subdivision.   
RPM Kojima pointed out challenges with re-subdividing a bare land strata.  
SP-2022-023 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the applicant be requested to provide a restriction on further subdivision of the 
Rural Residential lots in the s. 219 covenant.  
CARRIED 
SP-2022-024 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee supports applications  
SP-ALR-2021.1 and SP-ALR-2022.1 (Airey Group) for subdivision and non-farm use within 
the Agricultural Land Reserve and directs staff to forward the application to the 
Agricultural Land Commission for further consideration and to include the following 
comments:  that the Local Trust Committee supports the application because it reduces 
overall density and protects the agricultural lands and capability for agriculture.   
CARRIED 
 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting Minutes 
May 6, 2022 ADOPTED Page 5 of 9 
 
12.2 Saturna Island Local Trust Committee Referral for Proposed Bylaws 133 and 134 (for 
response)  
SP-2022-025 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee indicates that its interests are 
unaffected by the Saturna Island proposed bylaws 133 and 134. 
CARRIED 
12.3 Mayne Island Local Trust Committee Referral for Proposed Bylaws 184 and 189 (for 
response) 
SP-2022-026 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee indicates that its interests are 
unaffected by the Mayne Island proposed bylaws 184 and 189. 
CARRIED 
12.4 Mayne Island Local Trust Committee Referral for Proposed Bylaws 186 and 187 (for 
response)  
SP-2022-027 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee indicates that its interests are 
unaffected by the Mayne Island proposed bylaws 186 and 187. 
CARRIED 
13. LOCAL TRUST COMMITTEE PROJECTS 
13.1 South Pender Island Local Trust Committee Proposed Fees Bylaw No. 124 - 
Consideration of Adoption – Staff Report 
SP-2022-028 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee Bylaw No. 124, cited as “South 
Pender Island Local Trust Committee Fees Bylaw, 2021”, be adopted. 
CARRIED 
13.2 Land Use Bylaw Amendments Project – Staff Report  
 Chair Luckham raised the question of whether to proceed with further work on the 
bylaw; 
 The LTC agreed to proceed with discussing potential amendments;    
 A series of amendments were discussed and formulated for the following items: 
- water catchment requirement and flexibility of cistern use;  
- floor area amendments (residential, cottage, farm retail); 
- maximum house size; 
- side lot line clarity wording; 
- pump/utility house placement in relation to waterfront; 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting Minutes 
May 6, 2022 ADOPTED Page 6 of 9 
 
- lot coverage changed to maximum floor area (Agri-tourism); and 
- limitation of the number of guests and bedrooms. 
 It was discussed and agreed that building height and lot coverage would receive 
further discussion; and  
 Consideration and discussion were given to timelines and public communication. 
SP-2022-029  
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee rescind first reading of bylaw 122. 
CARRIED 
SP-2022-030 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the following amendments, as discussed, be made to Bylaw 122: 
 2.4 by “and by removing the words “pump/utility house“; 
 2.5 adding the words “except for a fence, stairway, wharf and dock ramps or their 
footings” after the “buildings or structures”; 
 section 2.7 by deleting “except for a lot located within the Agricultural Land 
Reserve, the combined floor area must not exceed....”; 
 2.8 (rainwater catchment for cottages):  to read “ a building permit shall not be 
issued for a dwelling, excluding a cottage, unless a building on the lot is equipped 
with cisterns for freshwater storage with a minimum storage capacity of 18,000 
litres”; 
 2.12 – add “side” lot line; 
 2.13 removing the words “does not exceed” and replacing them with “is not less 
than”, and adding the word “side” before the words “lot line”; 
 2.18 change floor area of cottage to 70m
2
; 
 2.20 change retail sales floor area to 500 square feet maximum 47m
2
; 
 2.21 - 5.5(18) by deleting “lot coverage of 5%” and replacing with “floor area of 
90m
2
”; and 
 2.21 – 5.5(21) change to “10 guests and 5 bedrooms”. 
CARRIED 
SP-2022-031 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that Bylaw 122 be amended, as discussed, to read 2.9 floor area table changes: 
Less than 1 acre: 5000 and 2500 
1 – 2 acres:  6000 and 3000 
2-4 acres:  8000 and 3500 
4-10 acres:  9000 and 3500 
10
+
 acres:  15000 and 3500 
CARRIED 
 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting Minutes 
May 6, 2022 ADOPTED Page 7 of 9 
 
SP-2022-032 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that bylaw 122 be amended to apply the table in 5.5(1) to the Agriculture, Forest and Natural 
Resource zones. 
CARRIED 
SP-2022-033 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee proposed Bylaw No. 122, cited as “South 
Pender Island Land Use Bylaw No. 114, 2016, Amendment No. 2, 2021” be given first reading 
as amended. 
CARRIED 
 
SP-2022-034 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
That South Pender Island Local Trust Committee request staff to report back with options to 
address issues with height, natural grade and flat roofed buildings. 
CARRIED 
SP-2022-035 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee request staff to find venues and schedule 
Community Information meetings and a Public Hearing on bylaws 122 and 123. 
CARRIED 
13.3 Minor Official Community Plan Amendments Project – Staff Report 
No discussion occurred. 
14. REPORTS 
14.1 Work Program Reports  
14.1.1 Top Priorities Report Dated April 2022 
Received for information. 
14.1.2 Projects List Report Dated April 2022 
Received for information. 
14.2 Applications Report Dated April 2022  
Received for information. 
14.3 Trustee and Local Expense Report Dated Feb 2022 
Received for information. 
 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting Minutes 
May 6, 2022 ADOPTED Page 8 of 9 
 
14.4 Adopted Policies and Standing Resolutions  
Received for information. 
14.5 Local Trust Committee Webpage 
14.6 Islands Trust Conservancy Report Dated January 2022  
Received for information. 
15. NEW BUSINESS 
15.1 Draft Annual Report Wording - for approval  
By general consent the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee approves the format 
and outline of contents for the 2021/22 Annual Report. 
16. UPCOMING MEETINGS 
16.1 Next Regular Meeting Scheduled for June 24, 2022 at the South Pender Fire Hall, 
Pender Island, BC 
17. TOWN HALL  
18. CLOSED MEETING (Distributed Under Separate Cover) 
18.1 Motion to Close the Meeting 
  SP-2022-036 
  It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the meeting be closed to the public in accordance with the Community Charter, Part 
4, Division 3, s. 90(1) (a)(d) for the purpose of considering: 
 Adoption of In-Camera Meeting Minutes Dated February 4, 2022 
 Appointment of Board of Variance Members 
AND that the recorder and staff attend the meeting.  
CARRIED 
18.2 Recall to Order 
18.3 Rise and Report 
  

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Regular Meeting Minutes 
May 6, 2022 ADOPTED Page 9 of 9 
 
 
19. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 2:05 pm. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
Peter Luckham, Chair 
 
________________________ 
Certified Correct: 
Lauren Edwards, Recorder