South Pender Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, June 17, 2022

[0:00:05] Trustee Luckham: Live streaming. So we're now live streaming and recording. So good morning, everyone. It is

[0:00:11] Trustee Luckham: 10.01 and this is the South Pender Local Trust Community Information Special Meeting. That is

[0:00:24] Trustee Luckham: a community information meeting regarding Bylaws 122 and 123. We're just awaiting Trustee Thorne

[0:00:30] Trustee Luckham: to join us um he said

[0:00:33] Voice 16: five minutes here

[0:00:35] Trustee Luckham: five minutes five minutes so

[0:00:42] Voice 16: he said go just start

[0:00:43] Voice 16: and he'll uh he'll join us asap and it looks like chair luckham is frozen am i the only one saying

[0:01:00] Voice 16: assume

[0:01:03] Trustee Luckham: that um cameron will be fine with that um so let us uh let us begin so welcome everybody to

[0:01:13] Trustee Luckham: to the special meeting of this South Pender Island

[0:01:16] Trustee Luckham: Local Trust Committee.

[0:01:17] Trustee Luckham: This is an electronic only meeting today.

[0:01:20] Trustee Luckham: And it's ostensibly a community information meeting

[0:01:24] Trustee Luckham: or a public information meeting sometimes called

[0:01:27] Trustee Luckham: regarding proposed bylaws numbers 122 and 123.

[0:01:32] Trustee Luckham: But each of those is in a separate section on our agenda.

[0:01:37] Trustee Luckham: And so just want to acknowledge and recognize

[0:01:41] Trustee Luckham: recognize that it's a beautiful day on the Salish Sea in the Coast Salish Territory,

[0:01:48] Trustee Luckham: and it's an honor and privilege to live and work here. I live on Thetis Island, which is in

[0:01:56] Trustee Luckham: Peneliket and Laiakson Territory, and South Pender, of course, is in the territory of numerous nations

[0:02:04] Trustee Luckham: in the Southern Gulf Islands,

[0:02:08] Trustee Luckham: Seyaut and Lugankan-speaking people predominantly,

[0:02:12] Trustee Luckham: but of course, interests amongst all the nations,

[0:02:16] Trustee Luckham: Lax and Cowichan, everyone.

[0:02:18] Trustee Luckham: South Panda was a real hub of economic

[0:02:21] Trustee Luckham: and cultural exchange since time immemorial.

[0:02:25] Trustee Luckham: And it's important to remember that.

[0:02:27] Trustee Luckham: And there's lots of opportunity for us to learn

[0:02:28] Trustee Luckham: about life on the coast and encourage folks

[0:02:32] Trustee Luckham: folks to take the opportunity to learn about the richness of the culture and history here.

[0:02:41] Trustee Luckham: So I have an agenda before us, and I'll just, I'm assuming that there are no additional items

[0:02:47] Trustee Luckham: to add or remove from the agenda, and that we will just be doing the community information

[0:02:51] Trustee Luckham: meeting today. So with that said, by general consent, I will adopt the agenda. That's all

[0:02:57] Trustee Luckham: All right. Thank you. And now just a couple of opening remarks and perhaps Trustee Wright may also want to make an opening remark.

[0:03:08] Trustee Luckham: The last community information meeting we had on in-person on South Pender, which was really great to be in your community.

[0:03:16] Trustee Luckham: um despite what efforts i have may have attempted to make in in that in that meeting it wasn't

[0:03:28] Trustee Luckham: really a safe place for people to stay and participate and speak and that troubles me

[0:03:36] Trustee Luckham: um but uh it was certainly obvious that some were not interested in that and outside of

[0:03:47] Trustee Luckham: of disrupting the meeting by recessing it

[0:03:51] Trustee Luckham: or something of that nature.

[0:03:53] Trustee Luckham: I did allow quite a lot of freedom associated with speaking.

[0:03:58] Trustee Luckham: And I thank all of those people in the community

[0:04:01] Trustee Luckham: that have written to me and to the LTC,

[0:04:04] Trustee Luckham: expressing their concern that it was,

[0:04:06] Trustee Luckham: it's not just me that thinks this,

[0:04:07] Trustee Luckham: there are a number of people in the community

[0:04:11] Trustee Luckham: that thought that it was unsafe

[0:04:13] Trustee Luckham: and that people spoke disrespectfully

[0:04:15] Trustee Luckham: And even trustees, to some extent, maybe said things that they might have phrased differently.

[0:04:20] Trustee Luckham: And that's fair enough. In the heat of the moment, we're all just human and we respond.

[0:04:25] Trustee Luckham: But I would just ask that everybody that speaks is respectful of everybody that's in this electronic virtual room.

[0:04:32] Trustee Luckham: That's not just the trustees. It's it's the staff which deserve and must have a safe place to work.

[0:04:40] Trustee Luckham: work, but also all of your friends and neighbors that are in your community, that they want to have

[0:04:47] Trustee Luckham: a safe place to participate and speak freely. And I want to provide that opportunity for everybody

[0:04:51] Trustee Luckham: to speak freely today. This electronic format is a little bit more easy to manage because we will

[0:04:59] Trustee Luckham: maintain it. There'll be a speaker's list electronically maintained based upon when you

[0:05:04] Trustee Luckham: raise your hand. And when you finish speaking, I will ask you to lower your hand and we will

[0:05:08] Trustee Luckham: We'll promote individuals one at a time to speak.

[0:05:11] Trustee Luckham: And I'm going to suggest we do two minutes per speaker.

[0:05:17] Trustee Luckham: Now, I actually haven't had, I didn't ask the question of our planning staff here today,

[0:05:21] Trustee Luckham: but we've got two hours and I want to finish at noon.

[0:05:24] Trustee Luckham: I really do want to do that because it's respectful of everybody else's time and expectations

[0:05:28] Trustee Luckham: about time management.

[0:05:30] Trustee Luckham: We've all got other things to do and appreciate that people are here.

[0:05:34] Trustee Luckham: And now I'll just say to Kim, I'm thinking that perhaps you need a half an hour maximum to address the detail that you want to address on each of the bylaws.

[0:05:47] Trustee Luckham: And maybe it might be good for that information to be given one after the other in your opening remarks, I'll call it, your reporting out on these bylaws.

[0:05:57] Trustee Luckham: And then I'm thinking 45 minutes for each of the bylaws for the public to ask questions of clarity, understand the form and character of the, not the form and character, but the intent of the bylaws, and then certainly express concerns that they may have about the bylaws, ideally in the form of questions that we might be able to answer those or address those concerns.

[0:06:22] Trustee Luckham: concerns but certainly um there's some flexibility there and then if we you know the ocp part is

[0:06:29] Trustee Luckham: maybe a little bit shorter conversation than the lub part and so if there was extra time before 12

[0:06:35] Trustee Luckham: o'clock and there was a need to go back to say bylaw 122 the lub for more questions and concerns

[0:06:42] Trustee Luckham: to be expressed then we could go back there and so kim does a half an hour sound like more than

[0:06:46] Trustee Luckham: enough for you oh

[0:06:47] Voice 1: yes i might imagine it would take me no more than 15 minutes to go through

[0:06:52] Voice 1: what uh my presentation and then perhaps if the trustees uh would like to add anything in

[0:06:57] Voice 1: additional uh to that then that allows enough time for them

[0:07:00] Trustee Luckham: okay so then that sounds like there's

[0:07:03] Trustee Luckham: plenty of time there so uh steve does that sound like a reasonable format and method of

[0:07:08] Trustee Luckham: maintaining some process here okay thank you steve um so then i'm going i'm going to begin shortly

[0:07:15] Trustee Luckham: But, Trustee Wright, do you have any opening remarks you'd like to make?

[0:07:21] Voice 16: No, other than expanding on your comments, I do hope that the discussion will be a little more positive and we'll be able to advance the discussion rather than continually repeat hard positions.

[0:07:37] Voice 16: We need to have a discussion.

[0:07:38] Voice 16: That's a two-way street.

[0:07:39] Voice 16: If we are going to be accused of not listening, then hopefully people will listen to everybody and not just one segment of the community.

[0:07:49] Voice 16: If you want to ask a question, please accept our answers.

[0:07:52] Voice 16: And if you don't accept our answers, then let's not get into an argument about it.

[0:07:57] Voice 16: Let's just try and carry the discussion forward because that's the most positive outcome that we could ask for.

[0:08:03] Voice 16: And that's what information is all about.

[0:08:05] Voice 16: out, let's keep the information factual and be able to verify what we say and the comments that

[0:08:13] Voice 16: we want to throw out in the public because we are in a public venue right now. So thank you very

[0:08:17] Voice 16: much, Mr. Chair, appreciate your efforts.

[0:08:20] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. Yeah, so the way I'm going to do this and

[0:08:26] Trustee Luckham: just ask now, so well, actually, no, I'm going to go to the planning staff and the advice that we

[0:08:32] Trustee Luckham: get from the planning staff is professional and well-founded in legislation and uh our statutory

[0:08:39] Trustee Luckham: responsibility certainly um this isn't our first rodeo so to speak we've done quite a bit of this

[0:08:46] Trustee Luckham: um and and what we are articulating with respect to um the the bylaws and how they will work and

[0:08:55] Trustee Luckham: stuff is well founded in both legal advice and legislative procedure so um and you may not like

[0:09:02] Trustee Luckham: it necessarily but that's just the nature of legislation i guess and regulation um so that's

[0:09:08] Trustee Luckham: it i think uh let us uh turn this over oh so let me do some introductions i apologize kim stockdale

[0:09:13] Trustee Luckham: our lead planner um for south pender kim it's really great to work with you and appreciate the

[0:09:19] Trustee Luckham: work you do robert kojima our regional planning manager a veteran of the island's trust um with

[0:09:24] Trustee Luckham: with a substantial amount of experience and background

[0:09:27] Trustee Luckham: in the Southern Gulf Islands

[0:09:29] Trustee Luckham: and appreciate everything that you do.

[0:09:31] Trustee Luckham: Also in the background here,

[0:09:33] Trustee Luckham: we have Carly Bilney is doing our minutes today.

[0:09:37] Trustee Luckham: And I also have Robin Elchuk

[0:09:40] Trustee Luckham: who's managing the Zoom technology.

[0:09:42] Trustee Luckham: So thank you all.

[0:09:43] Trustee Luckham: And Cameron Thorne,

[0:09:45] Trustee Luckham: it'll be a couple more minutes, I'm guessing,

[0:09:47] Trustee Luckham: but he will be joining us shortly.

[0:09:48] Trustee Luckham: And, but in the meantime,

[0:09:50] Trustee Luckham: we are going to proceed out of respect for everybody's time.

[0:09:53] Trustee Luckham: So Kim Stockdale, the floor is yours.

[0:09:55] Voice 1: Thank you, Chair Luckham.

[0:09:57] Voice 1: I'm going to share my screen and I will start with a PowerPoint presentation.

[0:10:07] Voice 1: I do want to take just a few moments to introduce myself to those who I haven't had the opportunity

[0:10:14] Voice 1: to meet, and I did this at the first CIM meeting on June 2nd.

[0:10:19] Voice 1: So I've been working with the Islands Trust for almost 10 years now.

[0:10:23] Voice 1: now. I started as a planner one and moved my way up to a senior planner. I was originally

[0:10:30] Voice 1: assigned to Galliano for many years, the Galliano LTC. And between that time and today, I went

[0:10:37] Voice 1: on a few maternity leaves. And when I came back, I've been assigned to North and South

[0:10:43] Voice 1: Penver. So I've been working with both LTCs for the last year or two, but it's nice to

[0:10:49] Voice 1: to have that mix of not only online meetings,

[0:10:52] Voice 1: but also in-person meetings.

[0:10:54] Voice 1: So hopefully I can meet all of you in person

[0:10:57] Voice 1: at a later date.

[0:10:59] Voice 1: So today we're having a community information meeting

[0:11:01] Voice 1: on two proposed bylaws, 122 and 123.

[0:11:08] Voice 1: And I'm gonna start with proposed bylaw 122.

[0:11:11] Voice 1: This is part of the land use bylaw amendments project

[0:11:16] Voice 1: for South Pender.

[0:11:17] Voice 1: I'm going to go over just a quick timeline for the project, and then I'm going to dive into some of the questions that we've received the most for this project.

[0:11:30] Voice 1: The Land Use By-law Amendments Project was initiated early in 2021, and this project was brought forward by both Trustee Thorne and Trustee Wright to an LTC meeting.

[0:11:45] Voice 1: And this is something that they've been interested in, in pursuing and becoming a project.

[0:11:50] Voice 1: So when the short-term vacation rental project started to wrap up, the LTC moved land use bylaw amendments to their top priority.

[0:12:00] Voice 1: When defining the project charter and defining the project objectives, there were some aspects that the LTC wanted to address.

[0:12:13] Voice 1: And that was reviewing maximum floor area, setback regulations, agricultural regulations in terms of aligning them with the ALC.

[0:12:26] Voice 1: Also addressing shipping containers on South Pender and also other minor technical amendments.

[0:12:33] Voice 1: There was a CIM held by Trustee Thorne and Trustee Wright in, I think it was mid-August of last year.

[0:12:40] Voice 1: last fall early fall in September the LTC gave direction to staff to draft a bylaw

[0:12:47] Voice 1: and then first reading was given to bylaw 122 earlier in this year in February so I'm just

[0:12:57] Voice 1: going to jump into some of the aspects that we've received quite a few questions about one of them

[0:13:03] Voice 1: is regarding what's actually included in floor area what's the calculation and there is this

[0:13:10] Voice 1: This definition in the land use bylaw, which is up there on your screen, which means the sum of all horizontal areas of a story in a building measured to the, and it's going to be changed from outer to inner surface of the exterior walls, exclusive of any floor

[0:13:28] Voice 1: area for a cistern and also exclusive of a story which has a having a floor and ceiling which is

[0:13:39] Voice 1: less than 1.5 meters apart so anything like a crawl space where the the floor and the ceiling

[0:13:46] Voice 1: is less than 1.5 meters that will not be included in the calculation of floor area

[0:13:52] Voice 1: and floor area is simply you know when you talk to a friend or you know you're thinking of

[0:13:57] Voice 1: purchasing a house and people ask the question well you know what's the square footage of the

[0:14:01] Voice 1: house well they're really asking the question what's the floor area of the house and so I

[0:14:06] Voice 1: pulled this is just a generic picture of a house from the internet and I thought this would be a

[0:14:11] Voice 1: good example of what would actually be included in in the definition of or a calculation of floor

[0:14:17] Voice 1: area you can see there that there is a fancy carport area and so that area actually wouldn't

[0:14:24] Voice 1: be included in the calculation of floor area because there's no external walls if you go back

[0:14:29] Voice 1: to the definition again we're calculating to the inner surface of the exterior walls

[0:14:35] Voice 1: so in terms of this dwelling unit and the carport there's actually no exterior walls there so that

[0:14:41] Voice 1: wouldn't be included in the calculation of floor area and that's similar to the front veranda there

[0:14:46] Voice 1: that wouldn't be included in the calculation of floor area as well so that's just more of a visual

[0:14:53] Voice 1: representation of what would be included and what wouldn't be or

[0:14:57] Voice 16: the deck or

[0:14:59] Voice 1: the deck yeah

[0:15:00] Voice 1: there you go or the deck the next item is the ltc is proposing to reduce the maximum floor area

[0:15:11] Voice 1: numbers in the land use bylaw um i must make a point of uh the the draft bylaw that was circulated

[0:15:20] Voice 1: at June 2nd's CIM. I made an error so I do want to apologize for that and that was in the first

[0:15:28] Voice 1: column there on your screen. The floor area of a dwelling unit must not exceed its 2,500 square

[0:15:36] Voice 1: feet for a property less than one acre. I believe in the draft bylaw that I circulated on June 2nd

[0:15:44] Voice 1: it was 2750 but it uh the ltc did give first reading to the bylaw and it uh they're proposing

[0:15:51] Voice 1: 2500 square feet so right now the the proposed bylaw that was given first reading these are the

[0:15:59] Voice 1: numbers that the ltc is considering so property is less than one acre uh the maximum floor area

[0:16:06] Voice 1: for a dwelling unit is 2500 for those properties that are between one to two acres it's three

[0:16:12] Voice 1: 3,000 square feet and properties that are greater than two acres would have a maximum floor area of

[0:16:20] Voice 1: 3,500 square feet. The LTC has also added a clause that would address the question regarding well

[0:16:34] Voice 1: what happens if my my house burns down or I need to replace that my dwelling unit do I have to

[0:16:41] Voice 1: abide by these new more restrictive regulations or can i build my house with the exact same floor

[0:16:48] Voice 1: area that it was before and with this clause which is there on your screen it states that yes

[0:16:55] Voice 1: you would be able to replace your dwelling provided the floor area of the replacement

[0:17:01] Voice 1: dwelling unit does not exceed the floor area of the dwelling at the time of bylaw adoption

[0:17:08] Voice 1: option. So if you have a property let's say that's less than one acre and it's 4,000 square feet

[0:17:15] Voice 1: I'm just using guesses here and this bylaw is adopted and the new maximum floor area is 2,500

[0:17:26] Voice 1: square feet then if you had to rebuild your house for whatever reason you would be able to replace

[0:17:32] Voice 1: place your dwelling unit with that 4,000 square floor area. You wouldn't be able to exceed the

[0:17:39] Voice 1: 4,000. We also received the question, well, what happens if my house burns down more than 75%?

[0:17:47] Voice 1: And this 75% comes from the Local Government Act. And that actually only applies to a non-conforming

[0:17:55] Voice 1: use. So the Local Government Act, when outlining non-conformity, it outlines different sections

[0:18:05] Voice 1: in terms of use and siting and size regulations. So the 75% only applies to non-conforming use,

[0:18:14] Voice 1: which we're not dealing with with this land use model. We're dealing with non-conformity in terms

[0:18:19] Voice 1: of siting and size. So Section 529 of the Local Government Act states that a building may be

[0:18:27] Voice 1: maintained, extended, or altered only to the extent the repair, extension, or alteration

[0:18:34] Voice 1: involves no further contravention of the bylaw. So which means you could generally,

[0:18:39] Voice 1: so you could renovate your house as long as you wouldn't further increase the floor area.

[0:18:46] Voice 1: And again, the LTC made the decision that, well, the LTC wanted to go above and beyond what the local government has stipulated. And again, the LTC made the decision that not only can you maintain your existing dwelling unit, but you are permitted that replacement dwelling unit that can be constructed.

[0:19:07] Voice 1: And I just want to take a moment here to just, I believe I'm still sharing my screen. I do want to bring up the Local Government Act and these sections because I know there's quite a bit of confusion around it and I think it's really important just to take this time now, especially since I have the ability to share my screen, to show you the two different sections of the Local Government Act and the non-conforming uses.

[0:19:33] Voice 1: So this is section 528, and you can see at the very top, it's talking about non-conforming uses, authority to continue use. So this is where they have, excuse me, certain conditions pertaining to non-conforming use.

[0:19:50] Voice 1: below that they separate non-conforming structures in terms of restricting on maintenance extension

[0:19:58] Voice 1: and alteration so this is where they get into the sighting and size conditions for

[0:20:04] Voice 1: non-conforming sighting and size so this is where we want to actually refer to for bylaw 122

[0:20:12] Voice 1: in terms of this reference to 75 there may be people out there saying where does that actually

[0:20:19] Voice 1: come from and that's actually from this section here and that's section 532 and it states that

[0:20:26] Voice 1: if a building or other structure of which the use does not conform to the provisions of land use

[0:20:34] Voice 1: bylaw and then da da da da da so again this is where it's talking about the 75 percent but it's

[0:20:41] Voice 1: referring to the use so in terms of again bylaw 122 we're dealing with siting and size regulations

[0:20:48] Voice 1: So we're actually referring to Section 529.

[0:20:52] Voice 1: And I'm going to quickly go over bylaw 122 and just outline some of the specific sections that people may have other questions for.

[0:21:00] Voice 1: So we've added some, let's see if I can make that a little bit larger for those that have maybe have a smaller screen.

[0:21:14] Voice 1: Hopefully that works.

[0:21:15] Voice 1: So at the beginning of bylaw 122, there are some definitions that will be added to the bylaw in terms of agriculture definitions.

[0:21:26] Voice 1: This section here, the maximum flora of a cottage is actually being removed from the definition of a cottage.

[0:21:34] Voice 1: And then the maximum flora of a cottage is actually then put back in the actual zone itself.

[0:21:42] Voice 1: So that's more of a technical change.

[0:21:46] Voice 1: here is where the ltc is considering for floor area measuring uh floor area to the inner side

[0:21:53] Voice 1: of the exterior walls opposed or in contrast to the outer side so that's where the definition of

[0:22:01] Voice 1: floor area and the amendments to that come into play this next section is for in regards to

[0:22:07] Voice 1: the natural the setback to the natural boundary of the sea so the ltc is considering increasing

[0:22:14] Voice 1: increasing the natural setback from the natural boundary of the sea from 7.6 meters to 15 meters

[0:22:20] Voice 1: but the LTC has a clause in there that will allow existing buildings to retain that siting within

[0:22:28] Voice 1: the 7.6 meters. The LTC is considering adding regulations regarding shipping containers and

[0:22:37] Voice 1: those are outlined there. The LTC is also adding further clarity to the rainwater collection

[0:22:44] Voice 1: And again, this is already in the bylaw, but the LTC is just adding additional words and increasing the size limit from 9,000 liters up to 18,000 liters for that.

[0:22:57] Voice 1: Here is where the LTC is proposing the more restrictive floor area regulations and the clause is there as well.

[0:23:06] Voice 1: The maximum floor area of a cottage is then, like I said, being removed from the definition of cottage and being put back into the actual zone itself, wherever cottage is permitted as a primary permitted use.

[0:23:19] Voice 1: The LTC is also proposing the idea of increasing the interior or exterior side lot line from three meters to six meters for dwellings and cottages.

[0:23:31] Voice 1: is and again they're adding that additional clause that states that you're permitted to keep that

[0:23:36] Voice 1: sighting and also if you need to reconstruct reconstruct a dwelling or cottage you may

[0:23:41] Voice 1: do so in the um as long as it's not less than the distance from the side lot line at the time

[0:23:48] Voice 1: of bylaw adoption and the ltc is also adding additional agricultural um uses and also um

[0:24:00] Voice 1: regulating maximum floor area in the agriculture forestry and natural resource zone

[0:24:07] Voice 1: and then these regulations are referring to the um some additional agri-tourist accommodation

[0:24:13] Voice 1: and agra tourism uses so i'm going to leave that there and quickly go back to the powerpoint i

[0:24:19] Voice 1: just have perhaps a few more minutes here um i'm going to quickly go over bylaw a one two three

[0:24:26] Voice 1: and the aspects of bylaw 123 actually pardon me the timeline of 123 is very similar to bylaw 122

[0:24:36] Voice 1: and the timelines are up there on the screen for your review pardon me I'll go back to

[0:24:42] Voice 1: my presentation mode oh dear this was an LTC initiated project early last year a CIM was held

[0:24:55] Voice 1: held in August. The LTC gave direction to staff to draft a bylaw in September of last year.

[0:25:03] Voice 1: That bylaw was originally going to include three aspects, the First Nations introductory statement,

[0:25:09] Voice 1: building design and citing guidelines, and also policies around rights of nature. Rights of nature

[0:25:15] Voice 1: was actually taken out of bylaw 123 and is um starting its own process um as bylaw 126

[0:25:25] Voice 1: first reading was given to bylaw 123 in february of this year and of course we know there's a

[0:25:30] Voice 1: public hearing um that is scheduled for next week in terms of the first nation introductory statement

[0:25:37] Voice 1: this was drafted by the islands trust senior intergovernmental policy advisor and she actually

[0:25:44] Voice 1: she drafted the entire document and then planning staff did a review with her. This was sent out to

[0:25:50] Voice 1: early referral to the WSANIC Leadership Council in November of last year, and no comments were

[0:25:55] Voice 1: received back from the WSANIC Leadership Council regarding the First Nations introductory statement.

[0:26:02] Voice 1: And again, this is strictly an acknowledgement statement at the beginning of the OCP

[0:26:07] Voice 1: for First Nations and it does not actually include specific OCP policies. Staff do know that at a

[0:26:16] Voice 1: later date that the OCP will have to be reviewed in its entirety to update and add new First

[0:26:26] Voice 1: Nations policies but this is simply just an introductory statement to the OCP. And finally

[0:26:33] Voice 1: Secondly, a bylaw number 123 includes these building design and siting guidelines and these were drafted by Trustee Thorne and Trustee Wright, and then reviewed and edited by staff.

[0:26:45] Voice 1: They are included or if bylaw 123 is adopted, they'll be attached to the OCP.

[0:26:53] Voice 1: and these guidelines would act as a reference document to the LTC when reviewing a development

[0:27:01] Voice 1: variance permit but I should state that variance applications they're not required to be consistent

[0:27:07] Voice 1: with these guidelines they just act as a reference document and I know there's been questions about

[0:27:14] Voice 1: well you know are these guidelines enforceable and while an OCP although it is a bylaw it includes

[0:27:21] Voice 1: includes objectives and policies, which can also include guidelines. And when you think of the temporary use permit guidelines that are in the OCP. Again, they're permitted to be in the OCP to address temporary use permits and their guidelines they help guide decision making for the LTC

[0:27:41] Voice 1: and also help staff and community members have outline an expectation of what the LTC is looking

[0:27:48] Voice 1: for, but they're guidelines. So they don't absolutely, they're not enforceable. And that's

[0:27:54] Voice 1: my last point here on the slide. OCPs are not enforceable as it's a policy bylaw. It's not like

[0:28:01] Voice 1: a regulatory bylaw, like a land use bylaw, a land use bylaw that can be enforceable. And finally,

[0:28:10] Voice 1: I just want to mention we have our public hearing next week on June 24th at the Pender Community

[0:28:17] Voice 1: Hall. This location was selected based on availability. We needed a space that would

[0:28:24] Voice 1: provide a large enough space for community members and hopefully adequate wi-fi connections so the

[0:28:30] Voice 1: meeting can be streamed. The meeting starts at 10 a.m but I understand there's also a community

[0:28:37] Voice 1: events that starts around that time so if you are in attendance please arrive early

[0:28:41] Voice 1: so you can have adequate so there's adequate parking in addition any public hearing submissions

[0:28:48] Voice 1: should be emailed to that email address on the screen it's vic ph sub at islandstrust.bc.ca

[0:28:57] Voice 1: and for any other correspondence for projects please send it to south info at islandstrust.bc.ca

[0:29:07] Voice 1: dot ca and when in doubt if you don't know where to send it to please always just cc south info

[0:29:14] Voice 1: at islandstrust.bc.ca and you'll know that staff will receive a copy of it and then staff will

[0:29:19] Voice 1: forward it to the ltc and then do the um proper um posting to the website and so forth so i'm

[0:29:28] Voice 1: going to pause there because i think i've taken up my fair share of time and i will pass it back

[0:29:34] Voice 1: to you, Chair Luckham.

[0:29:37] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, Kim. Very thorough. Appreciate that. And indeed,

[0:29:41] Trustee Luckham: I took up a fair amount of time at the beginning, cut into your time. So you've done very well.

[0:29:45] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. I want to welcome Cameron Thorne. Thank you for joining us. Cameron, you missed

[0:29:52] Trustee Luckham: a bit of a preamble there. I'm just going to keep rolling along here. We did

[0:30:00] Trustee Luckham: come to agreement, Steve and I, that we would provide two minutes for speakers to speak the

[0:30:04] Trustee Luckham: first time. And if there's adequate time, others can, they can speak a second time.

[0:30:11] Trustee Luckham: And that although we've done 122 and 123 together as the presentation, I'm not going to get too bent

[0:30:18] Trustee Luckham: out of shape if people, well, actually, I'm not going to get too bent out of shape with that. But

[0:30:23] Trustee Luckham: I would like to dedicate what I suggested was 45 minutes for bylaw 122, 45 minutes for 123.

[0:30:30] Trustee Luckham: if 123 turns out to be a bit shorter and there's still more questions on 122 then we will go back

[0:30:36] Trustee Luckham: to 122 to entertain those questions i do want to end at 12 o'clock i think we have to respect

[0:30:42] Trustee Luckham: everybody's time and availability today and um and now one more time ask before i ask well you

[0:30:49] Trustee Luckham: can certainly raise your hands if you wish to speak to about our about our 122 and um just ask

[0:30:56] Trustee Luckham: ask for complete respect for everybody in the room, your friends and neighbors that have joined

[0:31:01] Trustee Luckham: us electronically, the trustees, and of course, our staff that have a right to having a safe

[0:31:07] Trustee Luckham: place to work. And so choose your words carefully. And we will stick to two minutes and we'll

[0:31:16] Trustee Luckham: proceed. Now, I do see Trustee Wright's hand up. You're not an attendee, but if you have some

[0:31:22] Trustee Luckham: some additional remarks to make and I want to give Cameron Thorne a moment just if he has

[0:31:26] Trustee Luckham: any introductory remarks because he would have missed that when I opened the meeting. Steve over

[0:31:30] Trustee Luckham: to you.

[0:31:31] Voice 16: Yeah I thank you Kim for that information. I was wondering if that if that PowerPoint would

[0:31:38] Voice 16: be posted on the website because I think it's very complete and accurate and it would be nice for

[0:31:44] Voice 16: it to be available for the public to to see if they need another reminder.

[0:31:50] Voice 1: I'll post it in the

[0:31:51] Voice 1: next five minutes actually and if there's questions on where that's available i can

[0:31:55] Voice 1: quickly share my screen in a few minutes and show where it's actually located on the website

[0:32:00] Voice 1: thanks

[0:32:01] Trustee Luckham: very much uh trustee thorn uh

[0:32:04] Voice 17: thanks chair um well i'm here to listen uh i think we

[0:32:09] Voice 17: had a pretty good conversation uh on uh the first cim there in early june and uh

[0:32:20] Voice 17: really just really here to listen. I don't know if it's the same people or maybe some new people,

[0:32:25] Voice 17: but either way, let's just talk through things. Thanks.

[0:32:30] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. And Cameron, your audio is terrible. And I've noticed that sometimes that does happen

[0:32:36] Trustee Luckham: if you're on a cell phone with speaker on, but I'm presuming you're not, but the audio has a

[0:32:45] Trustee Luckham: a terrible ring to it. So if there's any way to increase that, that might help. Okay, so let us

[0:32:51] Trustee Luckham: begin. And I'll just remark that indeed, we certainly heard a lot of things at the last CIM.

[0:32:57] Trustee Luckham: And, you know, we don't really necessarily need to hear the same things again. And, but certainly,

[0:33:04] Trustee Luckham: if you need to say something again, then so be it. But please format your concerns and questions

[0:33:13] Trustee Luckham: if you can, not absolutely necessary, but would just like to make an efficient use of all of our

[0:33:19] Trustee Luckham: time. And so I'm just going to call, I'll give you a little bit of advance notice. So I've got

[0:33:24] Trustee Luckham: three speakers presently, Heather Haru, Jane, no last name, and Monica Petrie. So Heather will

[0:33:33] Trustee Luckham: get you promoted to a speaker. And we'll just, I should see that on my screen.

[0:33:51] Trustee Luckham: So Robin, are you able to promote? Oh, there you are. So Heather, you now have the floor.

[0:33:57] Trustee Luckham: And if you unmute your mic, and I will be running a timer. So try to keep manage your time to keep

[0:34:03] Trustee Luckham: within two minutes. And we will come back to people that need to say more after everybody

[0:34:09] Trustee Luckham: spoke a first time. Did we lose Heather? No,

[0:34:14] Voice 5: I'm here. Okay. Is that okay? Or do I don't have to?

[0:34:20] Voice 5: it's asking me to do something with video but it's not allowing me to is that okay

[0:34:26] Voice 5: oh

[0:34:26] Trustee Luckham: that's fine you continue yeah we just wanted to provide the opportunity for people to come

[0:34:30] Trustee Luckham: in wide video if they wanted to because it

[0:34:32] Trustee Luckham: just helps maintain personal

[0:34:34] Voice 5: thank you chair luckham

[0:34:36] Voice 5: and all of the trustees and kim and thanks for your presentation kim um i have two questions i

[0:34:43] Voice 5: I hope that's all right.

[0:34:45] Voice 5: I'm wondering if the trust mandate

[0:34:48] Voice 5: to preserve and protect changed over the course

[0:34:51] Voice 5: of when this all was initiated in 2021.

[0:34:56] Voice 5: And I'm asking that because I can see

[0:34:59] Voice 5: at least three different versions of proposed house sizes.

[0:35:03] Voice 5: And I haven't been able to, I know that you are all busy,

[0:35:08] Voice 5: but the minutes to the May 6th meeting

[0:35:11] Voice 5: have not been posted yet.

[0:35:12] Voice 5: So I can't see what transpired after everybody left the meeting because when that section of it was postponed, and I don't know who was left behind, but all of a sudden there was a further downward spiral to the maximum house sizes without getting a variance permit.

[0:35:34] Voice 5: permit. So I'd like to know why the was there a change in the preserve and protect mandate because

[0:35:42] Voice 5: we are all being we're all informed last week that that's one of the main reasons for all these

[0:35:48] Voice 5: changes. Should I give my second question now as well or? Well

[0:35:54] Trustee Luckham: yeah why don't you do your second

[0:35:55] Trustee Luckham: question and that allows us to move on simply and we'll answer the questions and I'll respond to

[0:36:01] Trustee Luckham: to your first one.

[0:36:02] Voice 5: Sure, sure. This is a sensitive question, and I'm going to preface it by saying

[0:36:08] Voice 5: that I'm in no way opposed to First Nations reconciliation, because we all know they've

[0:36:13] Voice 5: been treated egregiously. But the community is not all privy to meetings that are being held

[0:36:18] Voice 5: with First Nations people, and there are, as far as I know, three levels of First Nations

[0:36:24] Voice 5: leadership the tribal councils the hereditary chiefs and the elders who will be the decision

[0:36:31] Voice 5: makers with possibly more than one nation and three levels of leadership when they're

[0:36:37] Voice 5: I'm not sure how these that new proposed 123 that section of it is going to come into play

[0:36:46] Voice 5: especially with regard to the bullet second bullet point I think it is on page four of bylaw 123

[0:36:53] Voice 5: 23. So I worked in a forestry company, and I'm well aware of the difficulty in getting

[0:37:00] Voice 5: communication with First Nations. So how did this, does this all work? And what are the

[0:37:05] Voice 5: implications? Were there any lawyers consulted for property owners in drafting that? So that's,

[0:37:16] Voice 5: those are my two questions.

[0:37:20] Voice 11: Okay, I'm

[0:37:21] Trustee Luckham: gonna make a stab at the first one and the second one a

[0:37:24] Trustee Luckham: a little bit, but I might defer back to staff for the answer on the second one as well.

[0:37:29] Trustee Luckham: But there have been no changes to the preserve and protect mandate that is respective of

[0:37:36] Trustee Luckham: house size or setbacks other than the discussion here in the OCP and LUB, which are just proposed.

[0:37:46] Trustee Luckham: The only change to the mandate that has actually happened is the inclusion of First Nations

[0:37:51] Trustee Luckham: as one of the agencies that we're obligated to consult with.

[0:37:56] Trustee Luckham: And so no change in the fundamental elements of the Prison and Protect mandate.

[0:38:01] Trustee Luckham: It's always a topic of discussion, but it's still what it is in the legislation.

[0:38:07] Trustee Luckham: With respect to First Nations, it's a fluid and untraveled journey, so to speak,

[0:38:16] Trustee Luckham: Untraveled Road, where we are working extensively with all levels of First Nations, including tribal councils, including elders, including locally elected and in some cases hereditary chiefs.

[0:38:31] Trustee Luckham: We have reached out for engagement to all of the First Nations representation that we're aware of and are collaborating and working with those that are responding to us.

[0:38:45] Trustee Luckham: We have made significant inroads in opening up the door to want to communicate about the policy statement primarily.

[0:38:55] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, we have adopted a declaration associated with DRIPA and murdered and missing Indigenous women.

[0:39:09] Trustee Luckham: And we have an action plan in place, which we are committed to do.

[0:39:15] Trustee Luckham: And certainly there is plenty of legal advice and discussion out there, but I'm going to defer that to the staff, although really most of that work is happening in the 2050 campaign, not specifically to do with individual local trust committees, and is not presently enacted in any way, shape, or form, but is an ongoing conversation.

[0:39:37] Trustee Luckham: Kim, do you wish to make any remark on the second question? And I think I'm correct on the first one.

[0:39:43] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[0:39:44] Voice 1: In terms of the second question, my more technical response is when we do a referral

[0:39:50] Voice 1: to a First Nations, the First Nations have actually given us a referral contact.

[0:39:55] Voice 1: So we send in referrals to that one person and then that one person at the First Nations will

[0:40:01] Voice 1: then give that referral to their decision makers and I can't comment on who that may be. We have a

[0:40:09] Voice 1: a position at the islands trust which is called the senior intergovernmental policy advisor

[0:40:14] Voice 1: and that position actually or that policy advisor helps planning staff with building

[0:40:21] Voice 1: that relationship with with First Nations in terms of the first question they're around

[0:40:27] Voice 1: the May 6 minutes so how minutes actually work in terms of posting to the website minutes

[0:40:34] Voice 1: minutes are draft right now and they're attached to the next agenda which is will be attached to

[0:40:40] Voice 1: the June 24th agenda and when those draft minutes are approved then they get posted to the website

[0:40:45] Voice 1: so I know there is a delay unfortunately with minutes but there is also a recording of the

[0:40:51] Voice 1: meeting which is on the website right now so although the draft minutes aren't available you

[0:40:56] Voice 1: could actually watch the recording of the meeting and then when those minutes actually get adopted

[0:41:01] Voice 14: Kim, I'll just add that in the public hearing binder section on the web page, the draft minutes are available there.

[0:41:09] Voice 14: Great. Thanks, Robert.

[0:41:10] Voice 14: The draft minutes, I'm just looking at it right now, are available from June 2nd and the May meeting as well.

[0:41:19] Voice 14: Draft minutes are there as part of that public hearing binder section.

[0:41:22] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Robert.

[0:41:24] Trustee Luckham: Let's go to the next speaker, Jane.

[0:41:26] Trustee Luckham: Jane, I don't see a last name there. So if you don't mind introducing yourself,

[0:41:31] Trustee Luckham: Jane, and we'll get you promoted. And Heather will get demoted, so to speak.

[0:41:58] Trustee Luckham: There you are, Jane, over to you if you unmute yourself. And if you want to show your video,

[0:42:03] Trustee Luckham: you can certainly try. We were hoping that would work.

[0:42:13] Voice 8: Okay. Am I unmuted? Yep. I'm unmuted?

[0:42:19] Voice 8: yes okay thank you so um i have um three quick questions more more process related and if i

[0:42:25] Voice 8: have time later i'll ask the question on the dialogue but um in terms of uh sending correspondence

[0:42:31] Voice 8: or making comments i take it that anybody who spoke at the community information meetings that

[0:42:37] Voice 8: is not sort of recorded it's so if somebody wanted to say something that they said at that time they

[0:42:43] Voice 8: for the public hearing they'd have to say it again at the public hearing is that correct

[0:42:47] Voice 8: and that's one question and also if somebody sent something in terms of uh where they sent it to i

[0:42:55] Voice 8: didn't realize there was a difference between south info and this vix whatever the two email

[0:43:00] Voice 8: addresses that kim proposed so if something's been sent to the south info would that and it

[0:43:06] Voice 8: relates to the bylaws will it go into the will it go into the public hearing binder okay and then

[0:43:12] Voice 8: And second question is, I know that the bylaws were amended at the May 6th meeting.

[0:43:22] Voice 8: And have those bylaws been referred out again to referral agencies would be the second question.

[0:43:28] Voice 8: And the third question, when there are substantial bylaw changes being proposed, is there any requirement to notify property owners who will be affected?

[0:43:40] Voice 3: That's it. Thank you.

[0:43:46] Voice 1: i'll take that chair luckham if i may take some of the questions

[0:43:49] Voice 1: there um i do want to mention so um

[0:43:52] Voice 1: the community information meeting last oh gosh pardon me it's probably two weeks ago now um

[0:43:59] Voice 1: the minutes from that are just general comments made so if you want your specific comments or

[0:44:05] Voice 1: viewed views recorded um you should do so at the public hearing uh next week or write a letter and

[0:44:14] Voice 1: And email that letter with the title public hearing submission, and you can send it to either the VIC PH sub email address, or you can send it to southinfo at bc.ca.

[0:44:28] Voice 1: The bylaws were not re-referred.

[0:44:33] Voice 1: They were just sent out the once prior to or before May 6.

[0:44:38] Voice 1: and in terms of notifying property owners um no since there's um there's not a requirement

[0:44:46] Voice 1: to notify specific property owners um there would just be a advertisement notice in the newspaper

[0:44:54] Voice 1: okay

[0:44:57] Voice 11: thank you

[0:44:59] Trustee Luckham: um monica petrie is our next speaker so let's get monica promoted and

[0:45:06] Trustee Luckham: remove jane hello

[0:45:27] Voice 4: hello hi this is monica from gallon point road on south pender um i have a

[0:45:36] Voice 4: question for the trustees uh given the climate emergency we are in what are the natural

[0:45:43] Voice 4: consequences of not adopting proposed bylaw 122 any

[0:45:52] Trustee Luckham: comments okay thank you um trustees which

[0:45:56] Trustee Luckham: Which one of you would like to tackle that question?

[0:45:59] Trustee Luckham: I see Steve Wright has stepped up.

[0:46:03] Voice 16: Yeah, I mean, at some point we have to recognize

[0:46:06] Voice 16: that if we're gonna take any action on climate change

[0:46:09] Voice 16: and indeed the declaration on the climate emergency

[0:46:13] Voice 16: that was made and passed by council

[0:46:16] Voice 16: suggests that LTCs do act upon it.

[0:46:21] Voice 16: And if we are going to act upon it,

[0:46:23] Voice 16: then of course it has to be acted upon

[0:46:25] Voice 16: on in a local trust committee area.

[0:46:28] Voice 16: If our communities don't act upon it, then who will?

[0:46:33] Voice 16: And I've had some questions about why are we being first?

[0:46:38] Voice 16: My only answer would be, why wouldn't we want to be first?

[0:46:42] Voice 16: This is not a competition.

[0:46:45] Voice 16: I think if it sends a message that one community

[0:46:48] Voice 16: is prepared to do something concrete

[0:46:51] Voice 16: towards alleviating climate change,

[0:46:54] Voice 16: or at least the adaption to it, then perhaps we should be proud of that and not be nervous about

[0:47:00] Voice 16: it. Hope that answers your question.

[0:47:04] Voice 17: Hi, Monica. Of course, there's so many

[0:47:08] Voice 17: things around climate change. I think some things that we can do are within our powers as trustees

[0:47:16] Voice 17: and through our land use bylaws. Obviously, there's other things that happen through changes

[0:47:20] Voice 17: changes to the building code, and so I'll leave that one for a moment.

[0:47:26] Voice 17: I think, when I think about the concerns around climate change, and I think about the aspirations

[0:47:34] Voice 17: within our OCP, I think that the aspirations or the visions within our OCP are environmentally

[0:47:45] Voice 17: friendly.

[0:47:45] Voice 17: They are not only do they outline a vision for a quality of life and preservation of the rural character, but at the same time, those are virtues that are positively aligned with our concerns around climate change.

[0:48:04] Voice 17: So our bylaws are due to

[0:48:08] Voice 2: the division of the OCP, and I guess in a simultaneous way, our life possibly with concerns from society.

[0:48:16] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, Cameron, your audio has degraded to less than 50%.

[0:48:19] Trustee Luckham: It was about 70% before, and now it's almost unintelligible.

[0:48:28] Maybe

[0:48:31] Trustee Luckham: turn your video off.

[0:48:33] Trustee Luckham: That might help, because it's unintelligible, at least for me.

[0:48:37] Trustee Luckham: Me. Yeah, me too.

[0:48:39] Voice 17: Is this any better?

[0:48:42] Voice 17: Way better.

[0:48:43] Voice 17: Okay. Yeah, it's supposed to be a bad speed. Okay. So I don't know how much you got there. I apologize for the bad audio, but I was briefly just making the point that, you know, Bylaws 122 and 123 are aligned with the vision and goals of our OCP.

[0:49:00] Voice 17: and the visions and goals of our OCP are positively aligned with concerns around climate change.

[0:49:05] Voice 17: So I think that writ large, what we're trying to do with bylaws 112 and 123 are both, again,

[0:49:13] Voice 17: upholding the community values and working towards addressing climate change concerns.

[0:49:22] Voice 17: So I think that's maybe the quickest way to respond.

[0:49:28] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you, trustees.

[0:49:29] Trustee Luckham: You know, I'm feeling that actually it's certainly admirable that you're wanting to address climate change more broadly.

[0:49:40] Trustee Luckham: But I actually think the question was, is what would the detriments be of not adopting the proposed bylaw?

[0:49:48] Trustee Luckham: And does either of you want to

[0:49:49] Trustee Luckham: speak to that specifically?

[0:49:53] Voice 16: Well, I suppose the straight answer to that would be if we do nothing, then nothing changes.

[0:50:02] Voice 16: I mean, if we don't do something, if we're all going to recognize we have a problem with climate change, we need to adapt to it.

[0:50:07] Voice 16: And there is some data that shows that construction adds to carbon dioxide release.

[0:50:18] Voice 16: it adds to the use larger buildings use to to more energy use the creation of that energy use

[0:50:26] Voice 16: uh or that energy leads to more greenhouse gases leads to more environmental degradation

[0:50:32] Voice 16: then i think it's all tied together so uh the option is to do nothing and carry on uh in what

[0:50:40] Voice 16: can only be described as an end game for for uh for potentially the the human race certainly for

[0:50:48] Voice 16: many species on this planet. And I think I just can't accept doing nothing. So I think anything

[0:50:58] Voice 16: we can do to mitigate and to adapt to climate change, we need to do it. And if that means

[0:51:02] Voice 16: reducing host size, that is something well within our ability. And I think we should take that

[0:51:09] Voice 16: action.

[0:51:12] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you, Steve. I'm going to go to our next speaker, unless Cameron, you have

[0:51:16] Trustee Luckham: anything else to add oh that's fine okay so donna spaulding is our next speaker if you can have

[0:51:23] Trustee Luckham: your promoted and we'll uh thank you good morning donna you should be able to unmute your microphone

[0:51:48] Voice 9: no there's too many controls on this and you'd think after two years i'd be uh better equipped

[0:51:53] Voice 9: to remember where they all are thank you very much thank you very much you're welcome and um

[0:51:59] Voice 9: Thank you both to Trustee Wright and Trustee Thorne for their comments.

[0:52:05] Voice 9: I do have some questions, but they're related to some points,

[0:52:09] Voice 9: and so I hope I can just briefly go through those.

[0:52:14] Voice 9: Trustee Wright, I don't disagree with you with regard to, you know,

[0:52:19] Voice 9: the actions that we can be first on or take or look to.

[0:52:24] Voice 9: My question on this one, though, is, do we actually believe that by changing a house size, we can influence as many things as you have just related to?

[0:52:40] Voice 9: Because, you know, building, there are many new rules in the building code, and because we're building right now, we're well acquainted with a whole bunch of them, including, you know, increases in the need to provide levels of insulation and a whole bunch of other stuff.

[0:53:07] Voice 9: Wow. We changed our house size five years ago, and I don't think that, you know, and I could be entirely wrong, but I don't think that we have seen the house sizes that we changed it to five years ago abuse the sizes in the current bylaw.

[0:53:30] Voice 9: I think what we are seeing is a building code that is changing to require us to be more conscious of our impact on climate change.

[0:53:42] Voice 9: So would it be conceivable that instead of changing the house size to something across the board,

[0:53:54] Voice 9: which, you know, kind of makes, you know, there's some issues with that, I think, around what we are trying to achieve as families, as we try to encourage families to live here, as we have families who are having two and three, three, four generations living in the same home on our island, because that is what is economically feasible.

[0:54:21] Voice 9: going through the process of having to ask for a variance and everything that goes all the

[0:54:30] Voice 9: additional costs that go with that do not address the ability for families to to move that that

[0:54:37] Voice 9: concept forward so that's my first question could we think of some other things instead of just

[0:54:44] Voice 9: unilaterally or kind of without i don't see why 3 500 square feet is better than 4 600 square feet

[0:54:52] Voice 9: or or whatever it was if we can address the issues of climate change in a different fashion

[0:54:59] Voice 9: is it possible to you know think about those things

[0:55:02] Voice 11: okay thank you trustees um

[0:55:07] Voice 17: go ahead stephen i'll have you talk after that well

[0:55:11] Voice 16: i i think um i think don is probably correct

[0:55:14] Voice 16: is anything that we do on south bender going to impact the events around the world highly unlikely

[0:55:21] Voice 16: i don't question that but the fact of the matter is that somebody has to do something and if nobody

[0:55:28] Voice 16: does anything anywhere then nothing gets done again as i said um as far as the um the houses

[0:55:34] Voice 16: i think people have asked us for examples uh we have tried to provide examples and then we're

[0:55:42] Voice 16: we're told that those examples don't apply here.

[0:55:45] Voice 16: We tried to provide data, and again,

[0:55:48] Voice 16: we've been told that the data that we supplied

[0:55:51] Voice 16: does not apply here.

[0:55:53] Voice 16: So the only data that we do have is from BC assessment,

[0:55:58] Voice 16: which was collected by Cameron and I,

[0:56:01] Voice 16: and Cameron collated it, put it all in understandable form,

[0:56:06] Voice 16: and our veritable statistician Gordy Duncan

[0:56:10] Voice 16: Duncan has verified most of those figures.

[0:56:12] Voice 16: And we find that the average house size

[0:56:17] Voice 16: on South Pender Island is far less than any of the figures

[0:56:21] Voice 16: that we are proposing at this time.

[0:56:26] Voice 16: To suggest that it is onerous to go through

[0:56:31] Voice 16: a development variance application,

[0:56:35] Voice 16: simply means that you haven't experienced building

[0:56:40] Voice 16: in any other municipality or township

[0:56:42] Voice 16: because most jurisdictions do have them

[0:56:44] Voice 16: and they have them for very good reason.

[0:56:46] Voice 16: I don't think that the honest trust process

[0:56:50] Voice 16: of variance is any more onerous.

[0:56:52] Voice 16: Certainly it isn't as costly as other jurisdictions

[0:56:56] Voice 16: within our own neighborhood.

[0:56:57] Voice 16: So I don't think it is entirely onerous.

[0:57:03] Voice 16: If there are people that do require in age housing

[0:57:08] Voice 16: housing or intergenerational living those accommodations can be made I don't think

[0:57:15] Voice 16: anybody is going to try and deny those realities as they become probably more prevalent in in this

[0:57:22] Voice 16: community and every other community so I think that that again to say that we're being too

[0:57:30] Voice 16: restrictive I think people should keep in mind that the floor area that we are talking about

[0:57:34] Voice 16: if we go with these uh these figures uh will in the only properties that will be uh directly

[0:57:43] Voice 16: impacted by these numbers is a total of 11 properties i don't think that is too um

[0:57:51] Voice 16: uh too onerous and as i said and as as we uh planner stockdale said that we have made provisions

[0:57:57] Voice 16: so that they will retain their legal status and not be impacted with any implications of

[0:58:01] Voice 16: So, I think we've done what we can we've heard what people have said about their concerns, and we've responded to them. So, hope that answers your question.

[0:58:13] Voice 16: We can talk further if you give me a phone call.

[0:58:16] Voice 9: Thanks, Trustee Wright. I guess that I have

[0:58:20] Voice 9: Oh, sorry.

[0:58:21] Trustee Luckham: Jim and Thorne wanted to say something.

[0:58:25] Voice 17: Although, yeah, thanks, Peter.

[0:58:26] Voice 17: But Donna, I'd be happy to go ahead and

[0:58:31] Voice 17: respond to maybe both of your thoughts after that.

[0:58:35] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[0:58:35] Trustee Luckham: So is this a follow-up question, Donna?

[0:58:37] Voice 9: It is actually a follow-up question.

[0:58:39] Voice 9: And it is with regard to the Bylaw 123 and the proposal for build and design guidelines.

[0:58:48] Voice 9: guidelines. I don't disagree with the idea that this would, you know, these would be relevant to

[0:58:54] Voice 9: our island and would, you know, have a way of sort of keeping the atmosphere that we have, if you

[0:59:04] Voice 9: will. However, I do note that there are already these kinds of guidelines published by the

[0:59:11] Voice 9: Islands Trust. And I wonder why we have to go even further with attaching these to our OCP.

[0:59:21] Voice 9: I hear Planner Stockdale say that they are not an enforceable thing. But again,

[0:59:30] Voice 9: we are just going through the building process. And I note in the guidelines that it says,

[0:59:39] Voice 9: It says, produce a design concept and site plan, which is exactly, we had to produce a site plan, which went to the Islands Trust for approval before we could get our building permit.

[0:59:50] Voice 9: And within this guideline number four, it says, prepare a visual design concept plan building.

[1:00:00] Voice 9: elevation plans and site plan that will achieve the objectives of these guidelines. A site contour

[1:00:06] Voice 9: map may also be beneficial. So, when do these apply and who do they apply to? Do they apply

[1:00:16] Voice 9: to everybody? Is this something that when you apply for a building permit and the building

[1:00:24] Voice 9: department says, well, you have to do all of this stuff before we can give you a building permit?

[1:00:29] Voice 9: Okay,

[1:00:31] Voice 17: can I respond now? Donna, thanks for that. So on this second question about design guidelines, I think the planners made it clear, we've made it clear. First of all, the design guidelines are not embedded within the land use bylaw.

[1:00:50] Voice 17: The proposal is that they would be an exhibit or a schedule to the OCP, which is, you know, a land use pilot is regulatory in nature, and OCP is not.

[1:01:02] Voice 17: I know you say that there's a similar form of guidelines that's a pamphlet somewhere that is printed, and that may well be the case.

[1:01:13] Voice 17: case, the one thing, so maybe backing up a little bit, the design guidelines are, they

[1:01:22] Voice 17: are guidelines that would be used as a reference in those situations where somebody was making

[1:01:28] Voice 17: an application to vary, for a variance relating to their property.

[1:01:36] Voice 17: So if you're seeking a variance, that is the time when you would want to take a look at

[1:01:42] Voice 17: the guidelines as we would expect whatever future lpc is i mean i could see if put yourself in a

[1:01:51] Voice 17: situation where somebody was looking to for a variance to build a much larger house and and

[1:01:56] Voice 17: particularly if there was some some level of of discontent within the surrounding neighborhood

[1:02:02] Voice 17: around what that person was proposing to do and people want to know if proper process was followed

[1:02:08] Voice 17: And so you could imagine yourself in a situation where a decision was made one way or another, and somebody might say, well, what was the basis that the LTC used for either rejecting or supporting the variants?

[1:02:24] Voice 17: And if somebody said, well, there was a pamphlet somewhere that I think you can find in the Islands Trust, and that's what they looked at.

[1:02:31] Voice 17: Or, as is the case now, well, there was no guidelines. So the trustees just, you know, made a call on what they thought was the right judgment. And so I think both of those things are a bit weak in terms of having any sort of robust backbone to how we make decisions.

[1:02:46] Voice 17: decisions. Just like we do with the STVR, there's guidelines that give guidance to what a person

[1:02:55] Voice 17: should take into account when making an application for an STVR. So it's not a whole lot different.

[1:03:01] Voice 17: It just is something that is a concrete reference that somebody can look to

[1:03:07] Voice 17: when making a decision. On the first thing around house size, I think it's always a bit

[1:03:16] Voice 17: dicey to get into conversations around impacts to the environment and the house size because

[1:03:23] Voice 17: I think we all know that you can you can build a larger house that might be net zero

[1:03:29] Voice 17: you know when you're using the right technologies and the right building envelope versus a much

[1:03:36] Voice 17: smaller home that's got you know that maybe is older in nature and doesn't doesn't incorporate

[1:03:42] Voice 17: those same technologies so but i don't think we should pin the decisions about about house

[1:03:47] Voice 17: size strictly on climate change my my point always again going back to my earlier comments

[1:03:52] Voice 17: was always much more rooted in the goals and aspirations of our official community plan and

[1:03:58] Voice 17: really trying to look at a at a at a form that is that is generally uh rural in nature and that

[1:04:08] Voice 17: That while we allow, while we ought to allow for larger homes where it makes sense to set the baseline so much greater than the existing stock of housing and then not expect there to be, people say, we like the character of the island.

[1:04:25] Voice 17: And then we set the baseline so much higher than what the predominant building form is, we logically would expect over time that that would change, especially as property prices go up and more and more money keeps arriving, things would change.

[1:04:42] Voice 17: So I don't think you can just look at it on the basis of climate change.

[1:04:46] Voice 1: Chair Luckham, if I may add a point.

[1:04:48] Trustee Luckham: You know, I do want to try and keep our answers more succinct than they are, because we're really cutting into this opportunity to ask questions. So Kim, over to you. And then I want to go to the next speaker.

[1:05:00] Trustee Luckham: care just

[1:05:01] Voice 1: quickly and donna your question is great it's like well what it what so we have

[1:05:06] Voice 1: these design guidelines and citing guidelines attached to the ocp so what does that mean what

[1:05:11] Voice 1: actually triggers it and i just want to pull up um the proposed bylaw one two three and the trigger

[1:05:19] Voice 1: is this there's a new policy that's going to be actually added to the official community plan

[1:05:24] Voice 1: And it states here that when an LTC considers a DVP application to vary the maximum floor area of dwellings, that the building design and siting guidelines should be incorporated into the building proposal where feasible.

[1:05:43] Voice 1: So that's the trigger of when these guidelines would be applicable, is when the LTC is reviewing DVP applications in terms of increasing the maximum floor area for dwellings.

[1:05:54] Voice 1: and again they should be incorporated they don't have to be but they should be incorporated where

[1:05:59] Voice 1: possible thank

[1:06:01] Voice 9: you um planner stockdale um chair lockham i would i would just beg your

[1:06:05] Voice 9: perseverance for one more question and that is around rainwater no not even rainwater

[1:06:12] Voice 9: fresh water storage when we did this when we did the last review of the bylaw the you know donna

[1:06:19] Trustee Luckham: i'm i'm i'm seeing my speakers list is quite long i want

[1:06:24] Voice 9: to give people

[1:06:24] Trustee Luckham: a chance to speak

[1:06:27] Voice 9: if i could put it out there it was four we changed it to two then it went to nine and

[1:06:32] Voice 9: now we're going to 18. and we have had many conversations about what the purpose of this

[1:06:37] Voice 9: water could be i would i would really you know and i'm happy to to reach out to the trustees

[1:06:43] Voice 9: but i really don't understand why we're doing this or where it came from thank you very much

[1:06:47] Voice 9: thank

[1:06:48] Voice 16: you i'll get back to you on that

[1:06:50] Trustee Luckham: gordy uh let's promote gordy next

[1:07:08] Voice 3: we're getting gordy up and

[1:07:14] Voice 1: we seem to have lost trustee right oh

[1:07:18] Trustee Luckham: if he's in the lost and found

[1:07:22] Trustee Luckham: box ask him if can't forge chargers there let's just keep going with

[1:07:29] Voice 11: gordy you know

[1:07:30] Voice 11: technology is what it is so

[1:07:34] Voice 17: is that a question to me peter

[1:07:35] Voice 11: no here

[1:07:38] Voice 17: i don't mean peter i mean

[1:07:39] Voice 17: I'm sure.

[1:07:40] Voice 17: Yeah, I don't know what happened to my charger,

[1:07:41] Voice 17: but it's permanently gone.

[1:07:45] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, talk to Steve Wright about that.

[1:07:50] Trustee Luckham: Okay, Steve Wright is back with us.

[1:07:52] Trustee Luckham: Are we able to get Gordy up on the screen?

[1:07:55] Trustee Luckham: Otherwise, I'm gonna say, let's go to Christina.

[1:08:05] Trustee Luckham: Is Robin still with us on South Office?

[1:08:09] Trustee Luckham: I'm out here.

[1:08:16] Voice 3: Okay, thank you.

[1:08:23] Trustee Luckham: Gordy, looks like we have you, over to you.

[1:08:27] Voice 15: Okay, am I here now?

[1:08:29] Trustee Luckham: yes you are sir

[1:08:30] Voice 15: okay thank you i i i'm basically going to ask a question straight off the bat

[1:08:36] Voice 15: using this

[1:08:36] Voice 15: scenario and i would like to if possible chair luckham direct it to the staff so

[1:08:43] Voice 15: thank you i

[1:08:43] Voice 15: would like um to present a scenario here where we have a one acre lot with the current

[1:08:50] Voice 15: house max house size at 4 500 square feet uh we're going to have it within that scenario

[1:08:58] Voice 15: we have two homes, one at 2,500 square feet

[1:09:01] Voice 15: and the other at 3,500 square feet.

[1:09:05] Voice 15: And they both conform to the current bylaw.

[1:09:08] Voice 15: So the new bylaw goes into effect, I'm assuming.

[1:09:14] Voice 15: And that would mean that now we have a 3,000 foot

[1:09:18] Voice 15: maximum square or maximum dwelling size.

[1:09:22] Voice 15: eyes uh house a at 2500 is still conforming my question here is house b at 3500 according to

[1:09:35] Voice 15: the legal non-conforming fact would be non-conforming but grandfathered so is that a

[1:09:43] Voice 15: correct interpretation and

[1:09:45] Voice 1: then i have a

[1:09:46] Voice 15: follow-up question to that

[1:09:47] Voice 1: yes your interpretation is

[1:09:49] Voice 1: correct okay

[1:09:50] Voice 15: so now uh in that second scenario we'll just say both these homes wish to make a 400

[1:09:59] Voice 15: square foot addition to their dwelling so my feeling is that home a at 2500 square feet could

[1:10:10] Voice 15: proceed with the building permit and go through the due process of doing what they need to do

[1:10:17] Voice 15: However, House B, at 3,500 square feet, which is now non-conforming, will be required to get a DVP, or a Development Variance Permit, and further, they will be required to prove, according to the legal non-conforming,

[1:10:44] Voice 15: that they will need to prove that they are legal non-conforming is that correct uh

[1:10:52] Voice 1: no they wouldn't

[1:10:53] Voice 1: need to prove their legal non-conforming if they're going through a variance application you

[1:10:58] Voice 1: you would not need to approve that

[1:11:02] Voice 15: so just at the bottom of the fact sheet there it says where i

[1:11:07] Voice 15: a duty to apply for a legal non-conforming and in in that statement it says but if an owner needed

[1:11:17] Voice 15: to repair or maintain or i'm going to assume make an addition uh the owner uh the responsibility of

[1:11:27] Voice 15: the owner to demonstrate that it is legal non-conforming so i'm just a little confused

[1:11:32] Voice 15: on that so just to summarize then DVP is required but they would not need to prove non-conformity

[1:11:43] Voice 15: no

[1:11:44] Voice 1: because if a DVP is required and if it's approved then you'd be permitted to have that

[1:11:50] Voice 1: 3,900 square feet so you wouldn't actually have to go through there would be no legal

[1:11:57] Voice 1: non-conforming in that in that sense okay

[1:12:01] Voice 15: so just to finalize speaker gordy

[1:12:04] Voice 15: sorry i'd

[1:12:07] Trustee Luckham: like to go to

[1:12:08] Trustee Luckham: the next speaker oh

[1:12:10] Voice 15: okay uh and

[1:12:12] Trustee Luckham: you can come back later if you've still got more questions but i

[1:12:15] Trustee Luckham: think the other

[1:12:15] Voice 15: thing is yeah interesting okay

[1:12:19] Trustee Luckham: yeah it's just a matter of how much time we've got

[1:12:24] Trustee Luckham: I just want to remark that maintenance and repair is different than new construction.

[1:12:29] Trustee Luckham: Is that correct, Kim?

[1:12:31] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[1:12:32] Trustee Luckham: And so new construction requires a development variance permit if it's outside the limitations.

[1:12:38] Trustee Luckham: Repair and maintenance is something you just do.

[1:12:41] Voice 15: Didn't ask about construction and repair.

[1:12:45] Trustee Luckham: Kim maybe mentioned that, but that's okay.

[1:12:50] Trustee Luckham: Let us go to the next speaker.

[1:12:51] Trustee Luckham: and I'm going to go to John Kahurchuk, who hasn't spoken a first time. And Heather,

[1:12:57] Trustee Luckham: I see that your hand up is up to speak a second time. I also have two other people that haven't

[1:13:02] Trustee Luckham: spoken a first time. And I want to try to provide the opportunity for everybody to speak.

[1:13:07] Trustee Luckham: And 45 minutes on this bylaw 122 is almost up. But I think what, and I'm assuming the OCP may

[1:13:18] Trustee Luckham: have fewer questions and so I'm going to count on that and suggest I'm going to finish up these

[1:13:24] Trustee Luckham: three additional first speakers and then I'm going to go to bottom 123 and then we'll come back to

[1:13:30] Trustee Luckham: 122 if necessary. So you've promoted a speaker now that person has disappeared off my screen

[1:13:39] Trustee Luckham: it

[1:13:44] Voice 11: was John Kahurchuk.

[1:13:49] Trustee Luckham: Can we promote John? Thank you. Okay, John, you have the floor and

[1:13:57] Trustee Luckham: please keep your question within the two minutes and trustees keep your answers succinct.

[1:14:02] Voice 12: Good morning. An observation and a question. So what's being proposed with regard to the

[1:14:10] Voice 12: reduction of square footage if I let's say for the sake of of the discussion that I'm in an area

[1:14:17] Voice 12: that is now going to be limited to 2,500 square feet and I want to build 3,500 and I make an

[1:14:23] Voice 12: application and I go through the variance process and I'm awarded 3,500 the way I understand it

[1:14:31] Voice 12: technically that would be non-conforming it's not grandfathered and so if you needed to replace that

[1:14:38] Voice 12: what would you how would you replace replace that if you were awarded something if the now

[1:14:44] Voice 12: the new maximum is 2500 and you've been given 3500 10 years later yeah let's

[1:14:50] Trustee Luckham: let staff answer that

[1:14:51] Trustee Luckham: but i do believe that that is then legal when

[1:14:54] Voice 1: a development variance permit is approved um it runs

[1:14:58] Voice 1: with the land so if for some reason your house were to burn down you have you've gone through

[1:15:04] Voice 1: that variance process so you're you're permitted to have a house of 3 500 square feet so essentially

[1:15:11] Voice 12: it becomes the same as those that are grandfathered

[1:15:16] Voice 1: yeah

[1:15:17] Voice 14: yeah

[1:15:18] Voice 12: grandfather's isn't no

[1:15:19] Voice 14: use of the word grandfather is incorrect it's legal the variance makes it legal thank you

[1:15:26] Trustee Luckham: okay okay

[1:15:27] Voice 12: thank you for the question john well there's one follow-up question and that is has

[1:15:32] Voice 12: has consideration been given to setting a minimum

[1:15:36] Voice 12: and a maximum allowable square footage

[1:15:39] Voice 12: that would be contingent on meeting the guidelines

[1:15:42] Voice 12: in one, two, three.

[1:15:43] Voice 12: So a minimum if you don't,

[1:15:45] Voice 12: satisfy those in a maximum if you do.

[1:15:51] Voice 12: You

[1:15:51] Voice 14: can't use guidelines in a regulation.

[1:15:54] Voice 14: It's either a

[1:15:55] Voice 14: regulation or it's not.

[1:15:59] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[1:16:00] Trustee Luckham: So no is the answer to that question.

[1:16:02] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:16:02] Trustee Luckham: you. Okay. Yeah. So Alma is my next speaker here. And then Barbara Johnson will be my last speaker

[1:16:09] Trustee Luckham: in this first go round. And then we're going to go to bylaw 123 to see if anybody wants to speak

[1:16:14] Trustee Luckham: to that one specifically. Alma, the floor is yours.

[1:16:28] Voice 7: Thank you. Hello to everybody this morning.

[1:16:32] Voice 7: And I guess my big question is why? Why are we putting all of us 80% of the population

[1:16:42] Voice 7: through this restriction from bylaw 114

[1:16:47] Voice 7: that worked really well for us.

[1:16:48] Voice 7: And now we're going to 122

[1:16:50] Voice 7: and you're using the visions and the goals of the OCP.

[1:16:55] Voice 7: Well, they were there when we did the other one.

[1:16:57] Voice 7: And you also keep talking about preserve and protect,

[1:17:03] Voice 7: but you forget to add on that preserve and protect

[1:17:06] Voice 7: is also about the people in the community

[1:17:09] Voice 7: and the province of BC.

[1:17:12] Voice 7: And so the people of the community, you're affecting the majority of us with a whole bunch of paperwork and new laws and telling us what to do.

[1:17:23] Voice 7: It's like disrespectful of the people that have bought and are, we're here in a rural area because we honor climate change and because of stewardship.

[1:17:36] Voice 7: And so just my question is why?

[1:17:44] Voice 11: Why trustee, if you want to say anything further on the, why just

[1:17:52] Voice 17: briefly, like, okay, I almost

[1:17:54] Voice 17: camera here.

[1:17:55] Voice 17: Um, the, um, a lot of, a lot of the, the, the correspondence that I've gotten, um, from

[1:18:02] Voice 17: people that are in disagreement with this, say, you know, give us the data to sit, to,

[1:18:07] Voice 17: to, to, to back up why you would, why, why these numbers should be considered.

[1:18:13] Voice 17: and also a lot of the same people say all the numbers are great from the most, I guess, the 2016 land use by-law.

[1:18:22] Voice 17: As I said before, we all, and I was part of it, I'll be the first to say that,

[1:18:25] Voice 17: we all took a stab in the dark trying to come up with house size that we thought would reflect the houses that were on the island

[1:18:35] Voice 17: so as not to put ourselves offside with the built form.

[1:18:40] Voice 17: uh as i said earlier we did a comprehensive review i know bc housing data is not perfect

[1:18:45] Voice 17: for sure it's not that the house size is the interesting thing and gordy's got the same table

[1:18:53] Voice 17: um the the number of houses over 3 500 square feet um are 11 and it could be you know and again

[1:19:04] Voice 17: that data is from 2021 so maybe there's some more houses so maybe it's the numbers are slightly off

[1:19:08] Voice 17: But I think you see a trend. But based on my numbers of 200 houses, 87 of them were less than 1,500 square feet. 72 were less than 2,500 square feet and 30 were at 3,500 square feet or less. There was one between 35 and 4,000 and one between 4,000 and 5,000, one between 5,000 to 6,000 and two over 6,000.

[1:19:33] Voice 17: And so to say that we're affecting 80 percent of all the people with new rules, it's I just don't see mathematically how that makes sense.

[1:19:41] Voice 17: And I guess I would also say I do think that we I would be the first to say that that I think many people, regardless of whether we agree or disagree on this thing,

[1:19:53] Voice 17: I don't think that any of us are reckless about the environment or and that's not what we're trying to call into question.

[1:19:59] Voice 17: We're just trying to make sure that what we all enjoy is not necessarily undermined by people that come in and decide to go in a much different direction with houses that are going to be much, much larger than the predominant form.

[1:20:13] Voice 17: We've seen some examples of that recently on the south end of the island where people are raising great concerns about things that have occurred close to somebody else's property and are having quite a detrimental effect.

[1:20:25] Voice 17: fact. And that's one of the reasons why, for example, we looked at, I thought, a very gentle

[1:20:31] Voice 17: approach to increasing setbacks, especially when you've got a lot of topography. Go talk to David

[1:20:36] Voice 17: and Jennifer and see how they feel about the setbacks as they currently are. So that would

[1:20:40] Voice 17: be my comments.

[1:20:42] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Thank you. I'm going to go to Barbara Johnson now as the next speaker on my

[1:20:47] Trustee Luckham: list. And then I would like to provide opportunity to speak to 123. Barbara Johnson, let's get her

[1:20:55] Trustee Luckham: promoted thank you barbara if you unmute your microphone

[1:21:05] Voice 11: barbara unmute your microphone if

[1:21:08] Voice 11: you're on a phone there you go perfect thank you um

[1:21:12] Voice 6: yeah i'm i'd like to speak to the uh total floor

[1:21:17] Voice 6: area of all buildings um i'm reading the agricultural land commission uh response

[1:21:25] Voice 6: and it seems to be they're they're saying they're okay with and they the chart that's in that i'm

[1:21:33] Voice 6: looking at shows a greater floor area than what i'm seeing in the land use bylaw um from the

[1:21:41] Voice 6: consolidated where where 122 was inserted can anyone speak to that what is what i'm seeing is

[1:21:52] Voice 6: perhaps a need for and also i'm seeing that this uh all floor area of all buildings is the same

[1:22:00] Voice 6: across all zones but agricultural land is quite different because we require buildings for

[1:22:06] Voice 6: equipment and buildings for product that residences don't require and with climate change i'm seeing

[1:22:15] Voice 6: a greater need for shelter for livestock there was just a report yesterday that there were thousands

[1:22:21] Voice 6: of cattle that died in heat wave in the states and although our livestock are able to go into

[1:22:30] Voice 6: the woods for shelter i'm believing i'm seeing a greater need for more covered structures

[1:22:37] Voice 6: and with the bulky products that that we sometimes produce like hay we need larger buildings so

[1:22:47] Voice 6: anyway the the chart i'm looking at on the land commission letter shows greater square footage

[1:22:55] Trustee Luckham: so kim can you address the difference between the land within the agricultural land reserve

[1:23:01] Trustee Luckham: that the alc is referring to yeah

[1:23:04] Voice 1: the agricultural land commission permits dwelling unit sizes of 500

[1:23:09] Voice 1: hundred meter squared and that was what the LTC was was originally proposing but at the May 6th

[1:23:17] Voice 1: meeting the LTC decided to insert that table that restricts total floor area for all buildings and

[1:23:24] Voice 1: structures and establish new maximum floor areas based on on lot size into the agriculture zone

[1:23:31] Voice 1: so that's why there's that a difference when we originally sent out the bylaw to the ALC

[1:23:38] Voice 1: the bylaw was similar to the ALC regulation of 500 meters squared but then the LTC at the last

[1:23:46] Voice 1: meeting decided to further restrict that.

[1:23:49] Voice 6: I'm talking about the total floor area of all buildings

[1:23:52] Voice 6: which would be outbuildings and barns and everything.

[1:23:56] Voice 17: Can you pull that up Kim because I think the

[1:23:58] Voice 17: I know Bart thought that the total buildable area was the same across all building properties and

[1:24:04] Voice 17: And that's not where we're at.

[1:24:07] Voice 17: We are, I believe, greater than 10 acres.

[1:24:12] Voice 17: It's 15,000 square feet of buildable area, Barb.

[1:24:16] Voice 17: But that

[1:24:18] Voice 6: looks the same to the other charts.

[1:24:20] Voice 6: And when I was looking at the land commission's chart, it was 20,000.

[1:24:28] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, what the land commission has is different than the regulatory bylaw, potentially.

[1:24:33] Trustee Luckham: potentially but let's

[1:24:34] Voice 6: let's let's

[1:24:40] Trustee Luckham: have kim address that on the land use bylaw sorry

[1:24:44] Voice 1: barbara i just

[1:24:44] Voice 1: want a clarification where are you reading this um this other information from from the

[1:24:49] Voice 6: correspondence perhaps

[1:24:57] Trustee Luckham: that's a question that we need to respond to uh barb directly outside of

[1:25:02] Trustee Luckham: this meeting if we have to so

[1:25:03] Voice 1: this was of course correspondence okay

[1:25:06] Voice 1: barb we can discuss it at a

[1:25:08] Voice 1: later date okay

[1:25:10] Voice 16: i'm happy to give barb a call and discuss this with her as well

[1:25:14] Trustee Luckham: let's let staff

[1:25:16] Trustee Luckham: address that it's a technical question um and it needs to be an objective answer not that you're

[1:25:22] Trustee Luckham: not objective steve i'm just trying to help you you know believe me um you know at 12 30 i want

[1:25:30] Trustee Luckham: to now actually move into uh bylaw one questions and concerns specifically with bylaw 123. if we

[1:25:38] Trustee Luckham: get through 123 uh before noon then we'll bounce back to 122. so please um if you have questions

[1:25:49] Trustee Luckham: on 123 raise your hand and i'm i'm gonna start off um i'd like to in order to keep this as fair

[1:25:57] Trustee Luckham: as possible. I'd like to provide the opportunity for those that haven't spoken already on anything

[1:26:04] Trustee Luckham: today to speak, and then I'll come back to those others. So I'm seeing on my list, Paul Petrie,

[1:26:12] Trustee Luckham: I'd like to acknowledge you as my first speaker on Bylaw 123. And like I said, we'll come back

[1:26:17] Trustee Luckham: to 122 if we need to.

[1:26:22] Voice 13: Hello, can you hear me?

[1:26:24] Trustee Luckham: Yes, I can, Paul. Thank you. Thank you. Thank

[1:26:26] Voice 13: Thank you, Chair, and, Chair, I just want to say I appreciated your introductory remarks regarding the tone of meetings. I think that was very helpful and much appreciated.

[1:26:36] Voice 13: And also Planner Stockdell, that presentation at the beginning of the meeting with factual background was excellent and it actually answered two of my questions off the top, so

[1:26:47] Voice 13: So I'll leave that behind and I'll speak with by-law 123

[1:26:51] Voice 13: and particularly the provisions in by-law 123

[1:26:56] Voice 13: that relate to First Nations reconciliation.

[1:27:00] Voice 13: The idea of that being an introductory

[1:27:03] Voice 13: for that issue is very important.

[1:27:06] Voice 13: It really does set a tone,

[1:27:08] Voice 13: but what I'd like to just relate quickly to

[1:27:11] Voice 13: is your comment chair about various levels

[1:27:16] Voice 13: of First Nations governing structure, tribal councils,

[1:27:22] Voice 13: and I think Kim raised this as well.

[1:27:25] Voice 13: Tribal councils, First Nations individual local government

[1:27:36] Voice 13: for like the say out and then hereditary chiefs.

[1:27:43] Voice 13: and i just want to say that uh as outlined in robert dill's letter to the trust uh the south

[1:27:50] Voice 13: pender historical society has been relating to the wasanage first nation uh for about six years in a

[1:27:58] Voice 13: fairly effective way at all three levels uh on a community to community basis and i have to say

[1:28:05] Voice 13: that our experience and we're actually working with them right now with the uh catechist uh

[1:28:13] Voice 13: revitalization project that's funded by the real estate council of bc uh it involves active

[1:28:20] Voice 13: involvement of uh both the wasanich leadership council elders and hereditary chiefs and all of

[1:28:31] Voice 13: them uh their participation in this project is very much in line with what those uh changes are

[1:28:39] Voice 13: and i think we all know that the demands on first nations are considerable right now

[1:28:44] Voice 13: and they have to prioritize and prioritize what they respond to and how they engage their elders

[1:28:52] Voice 13: uh and i i the suggestion that um there hasn't been a response from a particular response from

[1:29:00] Voice 13: them uh i think those that work with first nations also recognize that as no objection being put

[1:29:06] Voice 13: forward so i think that's my two minutes but thank you okay

[1:29:10] Trustee Luckham: was there a question in there uh no i

[1:29:13] Voice 13: just wanted to respond to an issue where i thought uh it was left hanging and i thought i might fill

[1:29:19] Voice 13: in that gap

[1:29:20] Trustee Luckham: okay thank you yeah i would say your observations are accurate and we continue to work

[1:29:27] Trustee Luckham: as best we can with all levels and individuals as best we can. I'm going to go to Heather Haru now

[1:29:37] Trustee Luckham: to speak to 123.

[1:29:50] Voice 3: And I see

[1:29:51] Trustee Luckham: you there, Heather, but you need to unmute your microphone. Thank you.

[1:29:54] Voice 5: Okay, sorry. My question was actually, I was on the list to speak again to

[1:30:00] Voice 5: 122 so i don't really have um much more to say about 123 uh paul petrie answered part of that

[1:30:07] Voice 5: okay

[1:30:08] Trustee Luckham: so then i'm going to come back to you and uh when we finished on 123 so alma let's go to alma

[1:30:15] Trustee Luckham: on 123 keep your hand up heather i

[1:30:24] Voice 7: wasn't on a speaker list for 123 only 122 so okay well

[1:30:29] Trustee Luckham: Well,

[1:30:29] Voice 7: that's

[1:30:30] Trustee Luckham: great. We'll come back to you. Jane, you want to speak to 123? And I'll ask Paul to

[1:30:42] Trustee Luckham: lower his hand because I'm presuming you've spoken already. And Jane, you'll need to unmute yourself.

[1:31:00] Trustee Luckham: Okay, Jane, doesn't look like we're getting connected to you. Unmute. Star 16, I think it

[1:31:07] Trustee Luckham: might be or star pound or something on a phone if you're on a phone. All right. I'm going to ask if

[1:31:15] Trustee Luckham: If there's anybody else who wishes to speak to the OCP amendments bylaw 123, otherwise I'm going to come back to Heather.

[1:31:23] Trustee Luckham: Anybody else, please raise your hand now if you want to speak to bylaw number 123.

[1:31:31] Trustee Luckham: Paul Petrie, are you wishing to speak to, well, you already spoke once, but are you wanting to speak a second time to bylaw 123?

[1:31:42] Trustee Luckham: Okay, Paul, you have the floor, microphone, thank you.

[1:31:45] Voice 13: No, I wanted to speak to 122.

[1:31:48] Voice 13: too. Yes.

[1:31:49] Trustee Luckham: Well, it looks like, oh, I see Jane now has two connections to us. So I want to

[1:31:58] Trustee Luckham: provide the opportunity for those who want to speak to 123. So I'm just going to, sorry for the

[1:32:03] Trustee Luckham: confusion here, but Jane on one of those lines, if you can get promoted, and we'll just quickly

[1:32:09] Trustee Luckham: check those. Jane, are you there? Unmute.

[1:32:16] Voice 3: The other one, perhaps. Jane, are you there? We're

[1:32:28] Voice 3: trying

[1:32:29] Trustee Luckham: the other Jane now. Both of you are active. That's good. We've got the technology.

[1:32:35] Trustee Luckham: Jane, over to you. Not working. Okay. I'm going to, out of time, I'm going to just say that there's

[1:32:45] Trustee Luckham: no further questions on 123. If Jane is able to come back on, we'll take your question when we

[1:32:49] Trustee Luckham: can connect with you. But there are a number of questions with respect to bylaw 122, second

[1:32:54] Trustee Luckham: question. So Heather Harao, over to you for a second time.

[1:33:01] Voice 5: Thank you, Chair Lockham. I would

[1:33:03] Voice 5: just like to address, well, Steve Wright sent around a newsletter, we all got in the mail,

[1:33:12] Voice 5: or most of us got in the mail, probably some people didn't because they don't have mailboxes.

[1:33:16] Voice 5: But one of his reasons, Steve, I would address this to you. One of his reasons, one of your

[1:33:24] Voice 5: reasons is um for the um changes is that you don't want to see gentrification and I want to say that

[1:33:32] Voice 5: nobody has put me up to this question at all it's simply my own thoughts on this um you know and I

[1:33:39] Voice 5: don't want to talk about certain lots but I think you know especially which one I look down on and

[1:33:45] Voice 5: And there's a beautiful home and it's completely tastefully constructed.

[1:33:52] Voice 5: Rural character, I don't think can even come into the issue, but it's well above the maximum

[1:34:00] Voice 5: 3,500 square feet that they would have been allowed to build now.

[1:34:06] Voice 5: My question is on gentrification.

[1:34:10] Voice 5: I almost see this as a prejudice against people who have more money coming here and have the means to build something more.

[1:34:20] Voice 5: And I think that most people who would do that would probably be considering rural character as this particular property did.

[1:34:29] Voice 5: I can't imagine under the new guidelines or under the new bylaw that they would be allowed to build because I don't think they would meet your criteria for need in terms of number of people or anything like that.

[1:34:46] Voice 5: So I'm a little bit concerned that you're trying to limit diversity on South Pender Island

[1:34:56] Voice 5: from lower to higher levels of means and again I don't think that would have been able to be built

[1:35:06] Voice 5: but I know from my knowledge of that property that it probably could have been subdivided into

[1:35:11] Voice 5: to many, many lots.

[1:35:13] Voice 5: And had that been developed that way,

[1:35:17] Voice 5: there would have been concrete truck after concrete truck

[1:35:21] Voice 5: after concrete truck,

[1:35:22] Voice 5: and all of the things that could happen.

[1:35:26] Voice 5: But we have reasonable people

[1:35:28] Voice 5: who want to develop larger properties

[1:35:31] Voice 5: and not necessarily go down the road of subdividing.

[1:35:39] Voice 5: So I want to know how gentrification could possibly be viewed as somehow a prejudice. I can't help but think that. That's one question. The other question I have again is that footprint on a lot for house size is not being addressed.

[1:35:59] Voice 5: And I know you could probably look up on the internet, Google it really quickly what would be the difference in environmental impact of, for example, 3,500 square foot house versus a, you know, half of that built on two levels or say 2,000 square feet and lower number on top.

[1:36:21] Voice 5: off um but to me um having built a home on two levels there really wasn't a whole lot more to

[1:36:28] Voice 5: have to do to make you know steve you built the bottom floor of our house um really there's not

[1:36:35] Voice 5: wasn't much in the way of material required and i i spoke at the last meeting and said you know

[1:36:42] Voice 5: we at that time when we planned this nearly 20 years ago considered as much as we could the

[1:36:49] Voice 5: the siding and the you know the windows and how we would get better heat if we did it in better

[1:36:55] Voice 5: light you know we're not certainly don't use as much light as as others would have to in a in a

[1:37:02] Voice 5: different type of house so those are my two questions okay

[1:37:06] Voice 11: uh somebody want to answer

[1:37:09] Voice 11: the gentrification question well

[1:37:13] Voice 16: you know and gentrification is is not a prejudicial statement

[1:37:18] Voice 16: or it's not a discriminatory statement,

[1:37:20] Voice 16: it's simply something that occurs in smaller communities,

[1:37:25] Voice 16: which we can provide examples for where people

[1:37:31] Voice 16: that have been long-term residents

[1:37:33] Voice 16: are forced out of their homes because of rising prices

[1:37:36] Voice 16: and rising costs, either living or housing costs,

[1:37:41] Voice 16: and primarily because of rising houses,

[1:37:47] Voice 16: is uh costs that are coming in by uh people that have uh significantly more money and uh that's

[1:37:55] Voice 16: that's happened in vancouver it's happened in victoria it's happened in cumberland it's

[1:38:00] Voice 16: happened on salt spring uh it's occurring it's not a question of it's a prejudice it's just

[1:38:05] Voice 16: recognition of what's taking place as far as as far as the house you're talking about

[1:38:10] Voice 16: in our neighborhood um i i really don't know where you're getting the impression of uh that

[1:38:18] Voice 16: we have anything uh against or derogatory to say about that property both cameron and i have used

[1:38:24] Voice 16: that particular property as an example of good taste and good design and well cited so any uh

[1:38:34] Voice 16: conclusions that you want to draw that are contrary to that, I can only tell you you're

[1:38:41] Voice 16: wrong on that.

[1:38:41] Voice 5: Okay, can I ask one more question, Steve? Would you have allowed that house to be

[1:38:47] Voice 5: built today under the, when you have to build, you know, would they have been allowed to build

[1:38:55] Voice 5: that house? Because I understand just from what...

[1:38:57] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to go to your question, Heather, because

[1:39:00] Trustee Luckham: I want to give other people the chance to speak as well. What's your answer to the question, Steve?

[1:39:05] Voice 16: Well, it's a hypothetical question, but if someone applied me to build that particular

[1:39:10] Voice 16: house and that particular property and that particular design, I have no objection to it.

[1:39:14] Voice 17: I agree. Let's just be honest. Lee's got one of the nicest

[1:39:18] Voice 17: homes on the island. He's done an incredibly tasteful job.

[1:39:22] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Thank you. Alma, next speaker.

[1:39:25] Trustee Luckham: speaker.

[1:39:32] Voice 7: Sorry, I don't know why my name's come up again. I had only put up one hand last time.

[1:39:38] Trustee Luckham: It's because your hand is up. So you need to lower your hand. And you go right ahead. And I

[1:39:45] Trustee Luckham: see Paul Petrie and Donna Spaulding have your hands up. And Paul, I'm gonna and Gordy has a

[1:39:53] Trustee Luckham: hand up and keeping track of how many times people have spoken, but I'm going to go to Donna Spaulding.

[1:39:57] Trustee Luckham: and then Gordie and then Paul I'll come back to you. Donna you have the floor not hearing you

[1:40:18] Trustee Luckham: and now we've lost you. Gordie you have the floor next over to you microphone on please.

[1:40:29] Voice 15: Okay thank you my question is regarding what Kim addressed earlier with an example of the

[1:40:39] Voice 15: the house that we saw and with respect

[1:40:44] Voice 15: to what's included into floor area.

[1:40:48] Voice 15: And our South Pender by-law has three definitions

[1:40:52] Voice 15: referring to buildings and floor area.

[1:40:57] Voice 15: And I failed to see how,

[1:41:03] Voice 15: if you took the definition of a building

[1:41:06] Voice 15: uh that that an attached carport wouldn't be uh included now the example kim showed

[1:41:18] Voice 15: did not show partially included enclosed walls where many carports do and uh therefore i think

[1:41:28] Voice 15: would be included or uh it didn't show a fully enclosed garage which also i think would be

[1:41:38] Voice 15: included in the uh accumulation of floor area so if i'm incorrect there i would uh like and then

[1:41:46] Voice 15: just one more thing a dwelling is called a building so if we look at the three definitions

[1:41:53] Voice 15: of floor area building and dwelling as defined in our bylaw i need to understand i still can't

[1:42:02] Voice 15: understand how a fully enclosed garage wouldn't be included or a carport with partial walls which

[1:42:10] Voice 15: there's lots of okay

[1:42:13] Trustee Luckham: kim uh on the carport and also on the uh second question

[1:42:18] Voice 1: so if you were

[1:42:18] Voice 1: to look at this um house right here it's defined as a building right it's defined as a building the

[1:42:25] Voice 1: the car part would be part of the building the veranda or you know this is that's the building

[1:42:30] Voice 1: but when you're talking about floor area right the way to calculate floor areas to the external

[1:42:37] Voice 1: walls so not all parts of a building will be included in the calculation for floor area

[1:42:45] Trustee Luckham: and so specifically about partially enclosed i think that is maybe part of the question there

[1:42:51] Trustee Luckham: that's significant yeah

[1:42:53] Voice 1: and if this so

[1:42:53] Trustee Luckham: if that

[1:42:55] Voice 1: you know that carport area if that had four walls

[1:42:58] Voice 1: and was enclosed and part of you know the living space then yeah that would be included in the

[1:43:03] Voice 1: calculation of floor area so

[1:43:06] Voice 15: so if it was a fully enclosed garage it would be included correct yep

[1:43:10] Voice 1: yep okay

[1:43:11] Voice 15: and if that you're drawing right there say the stone uh pilasters or whatever they are

[1:43:19] Voice 15: uh we had a four foot wall like a half wall and maybe the end had a half wall would that be

[1:43:26] Voice 15: included no yeah and so

[1:43:31] Voice 15: how okay well i won't belabor it but i've just uh wholly or partially

[1:43:37] Voice 15: enclosed walls that it says in our definition so of

[1:43:42] Voice 1: a building how

[1:43:42] Voice 15: do you define that i mean

[1:43:46] Voice 1: under

[1:43:46] Voice 15: the building it says roof under building the building definition roof structure wholly

[1:43:54] Voice 15: or partially enclosed walls yeah

[1:43:57] Voice 16: i think i think we should look at that definition and

[1:43:59] Voice 16: if there's that kind of confusion we need to clarify yeah

[1:44:06] Voice 11: that that's worthy of some

[1:44:09] Voice 11: some consideration i think kim that a partial wall at full height or not full height

[1:44:15] Trustee Luckham: versus a

[1:44:17] Trustee Luckham: partially enclosed as i think expected to be defined would be three walls or maybe two walls

[1:44:26] Trustee Luckham: but clearly one wall attached to the house would be a given and then others so robert

[1:44:32] Trustee Luckham: as kim

[1:44:33] Voice 14: as kim was pointing out using that drawing there's a difference between what's a building

[1:44:36] Voice 14: and what's floor area yeah so that's

[1:44:39] Voice 14: the definition of building yeah can include

[1:44:42] Voice 14: things with partially enclosed walls floor area does not right

[1:44:46] Trustee Luckham: okay so there was a second

[1:44:47] Trustee Luckham: question there that gordy had and i've lost track of that myself well

[1:44:55] Voice 15: um it if you're if it's back

[1:44:59] Voice 15: to me you know the dwelling is also described as a building right

[1:45:06] Voice 11: okay so

[1:45:08] Trustee Luckham: building and dwelling but

[1:45:09] Trustee Luckham: i think kim you just answered that in a kind of roundabout way the

[1:45:16] Voice 11: building is the entire

[1:45:17] Voice 11: a

[1:45:18] Voice 17: building is a larger is i mean i guess if you look at it you know a dwelling or a barn

[1:45:24] Voice 17: or an accessory building are all subsets of uh of the definite of the term building yeah

[1:45:31] Voice 11: Okay. I'm going to go to

[1:45:33] Voice 11: our next speaker,

[1:45:37] Trustee Luckham: which I think is Paul Petrie. And then I see

[1:45:45] Trustee Luckham: Donna's back on there and Heather's back on there, but we've got some time. So let's go to Paul

[1:45:50] Trustee Luckham: and see what he wants to share with us. And then we'll go to the remaining speakers. And Jane is

[1:45:57] Trustee Luckham: is back with us also, maybe we can get her online.

[1:46:00] Trustee Luckham: Paul.

[1:46:01] Voice 13: Thank you, Chair.

[1:46:03] Voice 13: So my question relates to development variance permits.

[1:46:10] Voice 13: Just a little bit of context for my question.

[1:46:13] Voice 13: My sense from reading the 27 letters

[1:46:15] Voice 13: that have been sent in and listening to the comments

[1:46:18] Voice 13: is that there's basically two perspectives.

[1:46:20] Voice 13: One perspective that supports the existing current bylaws

[1:46:25] Voice 13: and and one that supports the proposed changes and the the current bylaws the

[1:46:32] Voice 13: permissible house size ranges from 3,800 square feet which is the equivalent of

[1:46:40] Voice 13: 22 12 by 14 foot rooms and 63,000 square feet which is the equivalent of 35 12 by

[1:46:53] Voice 13: by 14 foot rooms.

[1:46:55] Voice 13: In my view, these are all very large houses.

[1:46:59] Voice 13: The second perspective,

[1:47:01] Voice 13: those that support the proposed bylaws,

[1:47:05] Voice 13: the 2,500 square feet is the equivalent of 14,

[1:47:09] Voice 13: 12 by 14 rooms.

[1:47:12] Voice 13: And 3,500 square feet is the equivalent of 12 by 14 rooms.

[1:47:17] Voice 13: That in my view is also a large home.

[1:47:21] Voice 13: That is, the current proposed bylaws, while there's a reduction, still allows for large homes larger than the average house size currently in the community.

[1:47:37] Voice 13: So my question related to the development permit, and I'm not sure why I'm getting feedback there.

[1:47:45] Voice 13: Yeah,

[1:47:45] Trustee Luckham: you're getting feedback on that for some strange reason.

[1:47:49] Trustee Luckham: I believe it's due to Cameron's

[1:47:50] Voice 1: there we go that should help thank

[1:47:53] Voice 13: you thank you yes it relates to

[1:47:56] Voice 13: the criteria for development variance permits and I appreciated the planner Stockdale's reference

[1:48:04] Voice 13: to the OCP for the siting and design guidelines as a part of the criteria are there any other

[1:48:13] Voice 13: the criteria that would apply for a variance request request and my my concern is for the

[1:48:20] Voice 13: and and trustee right you mentioned this in passing earlier about multi-generational families

[1:48:29] Voice 13: and also for aging in place considerations as part of the criteria for variance permits is that

[1:48:36] Voice 13: something that has been addressed or could be addressed i

[1:48:41] Voice 16: believe it's already addressed in

[1:48:43] Voice 16: in our OCP policy, am I right on that, Kim?

[1:48:48] Voice 1: I don't have that in front of me.

[1:48:50] Voice 1: No, I'm

[1:48:51] Voice 1: not quite sure, I can't confirm that.

[1:48:52] Voice 16: Yeah, I made a note of that

[1:48:55] Voice 16: and I don't see my notes right here,

[1:48:57] Voice 16: but there is a section in the OCP that if it is not clear,

[1:49:03] Voice 16: we'll certainly consider adding to it.

[1:49:07] Voice 16: Thank you very much.

[1:49:08] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. Okay.

[1:49:09] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Paul.

[1:49:11] Trustee Luckham: Let's try and get Jane back in here if we can.

[1:49:14] Trustee Luckham: And we've tried a couple of times with no success.

[1:49:16] Trustee Luckham: Let's hopefully we can hear Jane now.

[1:49:18] Trustee Luckham: Jane, if you unmute, that's good.

[1:49:20] Voice 8: Hey, I think I'm here.

[1:49:21] Voice 8: Sorry, I

[1:49:22] Trustee Luckham: don't know what happened.

[1:49:23] Voice 8: So a couple, hopefully they're quick questions,

[1:49:26] Voice 8: but I wanted to address the clause,

[1:49:31] Voice 8: exemption clause regarding the ability

[1:49:33] Voice 8: to reconstruct a dwelling if it's destroyed or whatever.

[1:49:38] Voice 8: And there is that clause there.

[1:49:40] Voice 8: Would that also include things like attachments,

[1:49:43] Voice 8: attachments like decks and whatever so that I didn't because I don't know if that's clear in

[1:49:46] Voice 8: that exemption the way it's worded that would be one question and then the second question

[1:49:52] Voice 8: is dealing with siting I don't see anything in the proposed bylaws that will allow a dwelling

[1:49:58] Voice 8: to be reconstructed in the same siting with respect to the changes being proposed from

[1:50:04] Voice 8: setbacks to the sea and I haven't heard that addressed at all yet and I'm hoping that there

[1:50:11] Voice 8: there is some consideration being given to that because doubling of the setbacks and in addition

[1:50:16] Voice 8: to the size of the lot and things like covenants and well separation from sewer, I mean, there are

[1:50:23] Voice 8: many situations where a dwelling could not be reconstructed. So I'm hoping that that I didn't

[1:50:30] Voice 8: see that address today at all in your presentation, Kim. So I think that sort of needs to be highlighted

[1:50:37] Voice 8: it as an issue still yes

[1:50:39] Voice 1: thank you jane so um in terms of decks yes those would be permitted as

[1:50:43] Voice 1: um to be able to be rebuilt um if you're if a house was um had to be rebuilt if it was burnt

[1:50:51] Voice 1: down or so forth and in terms of replacement of a dwelling unit um for the natural boundary of the

[1:50:58] Voice 1: sea currently there isn't that addition um there's a clause but it doesn't include replacement the

[1:51:05] Voice 1: LTC is aware of it and it's something that I put in my staff report to be discussed at the June 24th

[1:51:11] Voice 1: meeting so thank you for bringing that that up and it will be discussed next week thank you

[1:51:19] Voice 8: just what I could say one more thing it would have been helpful to have that little presentation

[1:51:24] Voice 8: much earlier on when we started if we would have had some general discussions first because

[1:51:28] Voice 8: it would have cleared up maybe some of the issues I think there still are some but

[1:51:33] Voice 8: But thanks for, at least at this day, bringing that forward.

[1:51:38] Voice 11: Thank you.

[1:51:39] Voice 11: We're learning as we go.

[1:51:43] Voice 11: It's

[1:51:44] Trustee Luckham: hard to gauge the appetite interest, I think.

[1:51:47] Trustee Luckham: So thank you, Jane.

[1:51:48] Trustee Luckham: Heather Harau, you're next on my speaker's list,

[1:51:53] Trustee Luckham: and then Donna Spaulding.

[1:51:58] Voice 5: My question, I don't think my two questions were answered the last time,

[1:52:03] Voice 5: unless I just didn't hear it.

[1:52:06] Voice 5: um so i i didn't hear i don't recall hearing uh any response to when i asked whether footprint

[1:52:14] Voice 5: was considered and um as part of that um can

[1:52:19] Trustee Luckham: you ask the question again then please and let's make

[1:52:22] Trustee Luckham: sure we answer it

[1:52:22] Voice 5: okay um well as part of the may 6th meeting the um sizes went way down after

[1:52:30] Voice 5: After everybody left that meeting, but there again was no consideration for footprint and I know I hear from Paul Petrie with all due respect to him about the number of rooms and how big that house is I think most of us have been in homes that are those sizes or lived in homes of those sizes, and many of us have.

[1:52:54] Voice 5: and I think some of the trustees have homes in the 2500 square foot level or 3500 but

[1:53:03] Voice 5: I just want to know about why footprint is not being considered in in this did did

[1:53:10] Voice 5: did I miss something or was that addressed because we were talking about gentrification as well

[1:53:15] Voice 5: can

[1:53:15] Voice 17: I answer that question um sure sure I mean hi Heather uh you know once upon a time and I

[1:53:24] Voice 17: I think it preceded the 2016 land use bylaw, and Robert will know all things,

[1:53:28] Voice 17: but there once upon a time was also regulations around site coverage in the earlier iterations of the land use bylaw.

[1:53:40] Voice 17: That does not exist in the land use bylaw, the current form, or even with the proposed changes.

[1:53:46] Voice 17: And so some people might, it's really actually more permissive.

[1:53:51] Voice 17: I mean, it's like, rather than stating, I mean, I guess the way it's written right now, if you chose to locate and if you had a house that you could either say was 2,500 square feet, you say, well, I'm going to do two levels at 1,250, or I'm going to do one level at 2,500, you've got the latitude as the property owner to choose the options that work best for you.

[1:54:18] Voice 17: So I don't see, like, are you concerned that there's not site coverage in there, that there should be some coverage?

[1:54:25] Voice 17: I guess maybe I'm not clear what the concern is.

[1:54:29] Voice 5: I suppose what my question is that I think that a home that had a smaller footprint is going to conform more to environmental concerns that are being raised about these, about larger homes.

[1:54:44] Voice 5: I think that, you know, one question that I'm almost afraid to ask or and as part of this, but I was kind of shot down by one of our trustees when I did mention, you know, house value, and with these, these guidelines, anybody who came in to

[1:55:05] Voice 5: to purchase a property would now be, you know, have to go through a lot more approvals than they

[1:55:11] Voice 5: have had to before. And again, I've been told that that's not something I should be thinking about.

[1:55:16] Voice 5: But you know, I may be one of the very few people here who does think about that. And I'm, I'm sorry

[1:55:23] Voice 5: for thinking that way. But, you know, I think it's a consideration that, that needs to be addressed.

[1:55:30] Voice 5: Why shouldn't I be thinking about my lot value? And why shouldn't a new builder be able to come in and be considerate of the environment, build a larger home on a smaller footprint that would satisfy, that should satisfy a lot of these ideas of rural character and environmental concerns and all of the rest of it.

[1:55:55] Voice 5: And within that, within the lot coverage, the, you know, if you had a 4,500 square foot home or whatever, you know, you're, you would have less, less lot coverage. And I think that would be, that would be favorable.

[1:56:14] Voice 5: favorable but this isn't even being brought into this and I and as I said at the last meeting you

[1:56:19] Voice 5: know when I look on the San Juan Islands bylaws they mentioned footprint and and total house size

[1:56:28] Voice 5: and then I don't I didn't look at this part but I'm sure the lot coverage would be you know

[1:56:33] Voice 5: would be according to would would be proportional right whatever so I just I my question's not being

[1:56:42] Voice 5: answered and I don't understand it.

[1:56:44] Voice 3: And the

[1:56:46] Voice 5: value of a property. Why am I having to feel bad about

[1:56:52] Voice 5: thinking about the value of my property for somebody else who might come in, purchase my

[1:56:57] Voice 5: house and maybe not down my house? Why would I think about that?

[1:57:02] Voice 17: Just again, I certainly think

[1:57:05] Voice 17: about lot value. I think we all want to think about lot value. I guess the question becomes

[1:57:11] Voice 17: is whether all of our public policy decisions

[1:57:13] Voice 17: should be made with the objective

[1:57:15] Voice 17: of maximizing lot value.

[1:57:17] Voice 17: I guess it's where you think about it

[1:57:19] Voice 17: in terms of the mix of priorities.

[1:57:22] Voice 17: So it certainly has to be a priority.

[1:57:24] Voice 17: The thing on the idea of going two levels

[1:57:29] Voice 17: rather than one level,

[1:57:30] Voice 17: again, we've got this crude instrument

[1:57:33] Voice 17: called the land use bylaw

[1:57:35] Voice 17: and just setbacks and size and ridge height

[1:57:39] Voice 17: are really the only tools that we have.

[1:57:42] Voice 17: But, you know, in some situations, you're right.

[1:57:45] Voice 17: You go, well, it's better from an environmental point of view

[1:57:48] Voice 17: in terms of less disturbance to the site to go two levels instead of one.

[1:57:54] Voice 17: It's a smaller footprint.

[1:57:57] Voice 17: On another occasion, depending upon where you, you know,

[1:58:01] Voice 17: the topography of your property, again, thinking about that particular property

[1:58:06] Voice 17: on southlands right now you know you've got one existing house that the natural grades of which

[1:58:11] Voice 17: may be oh i don't know 15 feet maybe more than that below the the base elevation of the house

[1:58:18] Voice 17: beside it so if the house beside it was to go two levels that could be a lot more i mean maybe in

[1:58:25] Voice 17: some senses you might say well it's more environmentally friendly but it's also more

[1:58:28] Voice 17: impactful in terms of adjacent houses than if you're going one level uh but going twice the

[1:58:36] Voice 17: the footprint so you know it just gets very difficult to try and have a one-size-fits-all

[1:58:41] Voice 17: solution and and if you did that i think you'd have people complaining that that that was too

[1:58:46] Voice 17: constraining to how they needed to figure out design options based on their property so cameron

[1:58:51] Voice 5: um couldn't that type of lot be addressed you know without having to you know harness us all

[1:59:02] Voice 5: with with this these new guidelines i i know the lot you're talking about i hope to be friendly

[1:59:08] Voice 5: with the people that live there i you know even though many most of us don't like the idea that

[1:59:14] Voice 5: there was blasting that occurred and i'm certainly um you know i hate to see what happened to david

[1:59:20] Voice 5: and jennifer but at the

[1:59:21] Voice 5: same time um we you know we're all being shackled with these with these

[1:59:28] Voice 5: house sizes and I hate to say but I think it is at the whim of the of whoever happened to be the

[1:59:35] Voice 5: trustees at the time because you've given design guidelines but you know we were also told that it

[1:59:44] Voice 5: would that need would have to be proved and well in many cases if there's only a few people in a

[1:59:53] Voice 5: house or whatever. That one, I'm not clear on either. So Heather

[1:59:57] Trustee Luckham: and Cameron, I want to

[2:00:00] Trustee Luckham: wrap this up. I've got one more

[2:00:01] Voice 17: I'd like to hear from Donna Spaulding.

[2:00:04] Voice 17: Heather, as always, I'd be

[2:00:06] Voice 17: more than happy to have a coffee

[2:00:08] Voice 17: or a call or anything, but I

[2:00:10] Voice 17: certainly wouldn't look at things based on need

[2:00:12] Voice 17: or why you've got two people so you only need this much

[2:00:14] Voice 17: area. That's just philosophically not how

[2:00:16] Voice 17: I think. Okay. Thank you.

[2:00:18] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Thank you, Heather. Thank you, Cameron.

[2:00:20] Trustee Luckham: Let's go to Donna Spaulding for the last word

[2:00:22] Trustee Luckham: and we're going to wrap it up.

[2:00:24] Trustee Luckham: Sorry, Jane. I think

[2:00:26] Trustee Luckham: we did hear from

[2:00:28] Trustee Luckham: you already. Donna,

[2:00:30] Voice 3: are you there?

[2:00:45] Voice 11: Yeah, so much for technology, eh? Yeah.

[2:00:51] Voice 11: Okay. If

[2:00:52] Voice 1: I could just

[2:00:54] Voice 1: quickly share my screen, I wouldn't mind just showing the webpage for those who are looking

[2:00:57] Voice 1: for the PowerPoint. It would take just one minute here.

[2:01:00] Trustee Luckham: Sure, and so let's do that, because also

[2:01:03] Trustee Luckham: let's flash up on the screen the email addresses for people to make submissions to, because our

[2:01:09] Trustee Luckham: our next opportunity to have a conversation is going to be public hearing.

[2:01:15] Voice 1: So I'm currently sharing my screen and I will show you where to find this information on the

[2:01:21] Voice 1: South Pender webpage under projects. If you click on that link there, you'll find the shoreline

[2:01:29] Voice 1: review, the land use bylaw amendments and the minor OCP amendments. You'll find the proposed

[2:01:36] Voice 1: proposed bylaws here. Each is a drop-down menu. You'll have find the public hearing binder which

[2:01:42] Voice 1: you can find the May 6 CIM minutes and under other information that's where you can find today's CIM

[2:01:50] Voice 1: PDF and in terms of information for the public hearing it's here and for correspondence when

[2:01:59] Voice 1: When in doubt, send it to southinfo at islandstrust.bc.ca.

[2:02:06] Voice 1: Thank you.

[2:02:09] Trustee Luckham: Okay, very good.

[2:02:10] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, everybody, for keeping this a respectful

[2:02:13] Trustee Luckham: and safe place to have a conversation.

[2:02:15] Trustee Luckham: And we've certainly heard more concerns or ongoing concerns.

[2:02:21] Trustee Luckham: And the public hearing is the next opportunity,

[2:02:24] Trustee Luckham: and that's going to be in the Kennedy Center on the north end there.

[2:02:28] Trustee Luckham: And we look forward to seeing you there.

[2:02:30] Trustee Luckham: Any closing remarks from the trustees?

[2:02:32] Trustee Luckham: Cameron?

[2:02:34] Voice 16: Thanks to staff and to you, Chair.

[2:02:38] Voice 16: Cameron?

[2:02:39] Voice 17: Yeah, I don't want to get to the same thing.

[2:02:41] Voice 17: Yeah, I'll keep it brief.

[2:02:42] Voice 17: Thanks very much, everyone.

[2:02:45] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so thank you to the staff, Kim, Carly, and Robin, as well as Robert Kojima for hosting

[2:02:52] Trustee Luckham: us and helping us today in this meeting.

[2:02:54] Trustee Luckham: And I'm looking forward to public hearing back on your island on next Friday.

[2:02:59] Trustee Luckham: See you then.

[2:03:00] Voice 3: Cheers.

[2:03:07] Voice 3: Thank you, Robin.

North Pender LTC Special Meeting (CIM) 
Special Meeting Minutes  
June 17, 2022 ADOPTED Page 1 of 5 
 
 
South Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date: 
Location: 
June 17, 2022 
Electronic Meeting 
 
Members Present: Peter Luckham, Chair 
 Cameron Thorn, Trustee 
 Steve Wright, Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Robert Kojima, Regional Planning Manager 
 Kim Stockdill, Island Planner 
 
 
Participants: 
Carly Bilney, Recorder 
 
There were approximately 17 members of the public present. 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Luckham called the meeting to order at 10:00 am. He acknowledged that the meeting was 
being held in traditional territory of the Coast Salish First Nations. 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
By general consent the agenda was approved as presented. 
3. BUSINESS ITEMS 
3.1 Community Information Meeting – To discuss the South Pender Island Local Trust 
Committee’s Land Use Bylaw Amendments Project – Proposed Bylaw No. 122. 
Chair Luckham provided opening remarks and introduced the panellists.   
 
Planner Stockdill reviewed proposed Bylaw No. 122 and its objectives to review the 
maximum floor area, setback and agricultural regulations, to address shipping 
containers on South Pender, and to seek other minor technical amendments. 
 
Planner Stockdill reviewed proposed Bylaw No. 123 and noted the Local Trust 
Committee (LTC) gave direction to staff to adopt a bylaw to include a First Nations 
Introductory Statement in the Official Community Plan, as well as building design and 
siting guidelines – the latter two of which would act as a reference document for the 
LTC to help guide decision-making when assessing Development Variance Permit (DVP) 
applications. 
 
A D O P T E D 

  
North Pender LTC Special Meeting (CIM) 
Special Meeting Minutes  
June 17, 2022 ADOPTED Page 2 of 5 
 
Members of the community were invited to comment on proposed Bylaw No. 122 and 
the following questions and comments were raised: (Note: “Q” represents 
questions/comments from members of the public; “A” are answers from the trustees or 
Islands Trust staff). 
Q: Why was there a change to the Trust’s mandate to “preserve and protect” when 
this was initiated? 
 
A: There were no changes to the mandate to preserve and protect respective to 
house sizes and setbacks; the only change to the mandate that occurred is 
the inclusion of First Nations as bodies with which consultation is obligatory.  
 
Q: Who will be the decision-makers when the proposed bylaws come into effect 
given the various levels of leadership among First Nations?  
 
A: The Islands Trust is working extensively with all levels of First Nations, 
including tribal councils, elders and locally elected and hereditary chiefs. The 
Trust is committed to the Reconciliation Action Plan, has reached out to all 
levels of First Nations engagement of which it is aware, and is working 
collaboratively with those that have responded. When a referral is done to a 
First Nation, Staff sends referrals to referral contacts provided by First 
Nations who then give the referral document to decision-makers.  
 
Q: When substantial bylaw changes are proposed, is there a requirement to notify 
property owners that will be affected? 
 
A: There is no requirement to notify specific property owners, but there would 
be advertisement.  
 
Q: Given the climate emergency, what are the natural consequences of not 
adopting proposed Bylaw 122? 
 
A: Anything we can do to mitigate and adapt to climate change needs to be 
done; if we do nothing, then nothing changes. Proposed Bylaws 122 and 123 
are aligned with the goals of the Official Community Plan (OCP) as they 
uphold community values and work towards addressing climate change 
concerns. 
 
Q: Is there an alternative to unilaterally restricting house sizes across the board 
since having to request a variance for a house size that allows multi-
generational families to live together does not encourage families to live on the 
island. 
 
A: The application process for DVPs is not entirely onerous and accommodations 
can be made for inter-generational living. The average house size on South 

  
North Pender LTC Special Meeting (CIM) 
Special Meeting Minutes  
June 17, 2022 ADOPTED Page 3 of 5 
 
Pender Island is far less than the proposed figures, which would only directly 
impact a total of 11 properties.  
 
Q: Since the Islands Trust already provides similar guidelines why do they need to 
also be attached to the OCP?   
 
A: Design guidelines are not embedded within the land use bylaw, but would be 
in the OCP to be used as a reference for someone applying for a variance 
related to their property; the design guidelines would provide concrete 
reference for someone to look to when making a decision. 
 
Q: If a property owner who wants to build a house that exceeds the square footage 
limited by the bylaw is awarded a variance and the house subsequently burns 
down, is the owner restricted to rebuilding a house that is limited to the bylaw 
or does the variance still apply? 
 
A: The owners would be permitted to replace the house that burned down 
including any variance that was granted; a DVP applies to the land and the 
variance makes the larger house size legal. 
 
Q: Why are these restrictions on house sizes being proposed when existing 
restrictions have worked well? 
 
A: The proposed maximum house size was determined by a comprehensive 
review of data from BC Housing that shows 11 houses on South Pender 
Island are over 3,500 square feet. The proposal aims to ensure the current 
status is not undermined by newcomers that try to build houses that are 
much larger than the predominant form. 
 
Q: The floor area of all buildings is the same across zones though agricultural land 
is different because more buildings are required (e.g. shelter for livestock and 
covered structures to house bulky products like hay). 
 
A: The Agricultural Land Commission permits dwelling units to 500m² and the 
LTC decided to further restrict total floor area and maximum floor size to all 
buildings. Staff will follow up to address related technical questions.  
 
3.2 Community Information Meeting – To discuss the Minor Official Community Plan 
Amendments Project – Proposed Bylaw No. 123. 
Members of the community were invited to comment on proposed Bylaw No. 123 and 
the following questions and comments were raised: (Note: “Q” represents 
questions/comments from members of the public; “A” are answers from the trustees or 
Islands Trust staff). 

  
North Pender LTC Special Meeting (CIM) 
Special Meeting Minutes  
June 17, 2022 ADOPTED Page 4 of 5 
 
Q: The provisions in proposed Bylaw No. 123 that relate to First Nations 
reconciliation set a very important tone; the demands on First Nations are 
considerable and they have to prioritize what they respond to and how they 
engage their elders. 
 
A: The Islands Trust continues to work as best it can with all levels of First 
Nations governance and individuals. 
 
Q: Proposing the changes in order to avoid gentrification is a prejudice against 
people who have the means to build something more. 
 
A: Gentrification is not prejudicial or discriminatory, but something that occurs 
in smaller communities and, in this context, it is a recognition of what is 
taking place. People that have been long-term residents are forced out of 
their homes because of rising costs from people coming in with significantly 
more money. 
 
Q: How does the floor area in the proposed bylaws relate to carports or garages 
that have partially enclosed walls? 
 
A: To calculate the floor area is to calculate to the external walls of a building; if 
a carport area had four walls and was enclosed, it would be included in the 
floor area calculation.  
 
Q: Would the exemption clause that relates to rebuilding a dwelling that is 
destroyed include attachments like decks? Could the dwelling be reconstructed 
in the same siting with respect to setbacks from the sea? 
 
A: Decks would be permitted to be rebuilt. There is a clause that relates to 
siting, but it does not include replacement for the setback to the natural 
boundary of the sea; the LTC is aware of this and the matter will be included 
in the staff report for discussion at the June 24 meeting.  
 
Q: Why is a building’s footprint not being considered in the proposed bylaw? The 
impact the proposed bylaw might have on lot values ought to be considered. 
 
A: From an environmental perspective, it is better to build two levels than build 
one within a defined square footage; however, depending on the topography 
of the property, a house that rises two levels may be more impactful to 
adjacent houses. It is difficult to have a ‘one-size fits all’ solution.  
 
Planner Stockdill noted information about the proposed bylaws may be found online at 
https://islandstrust.bc.ca/island-planning/south-pender/projects/ and that written submissions 
may be emailed to vicphsub@islandstrust.bc.ca or southinfo@islandstrust.bc.ca up until the 
conclusion of the Public Hearing.  

  
North Pender LTC Special Meeting (CIM) 
Special Meeting Minutes  
June 17, 2022 ADOPTED Page 5 of 5 
 
 
4. ADJOURNMENT 
 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 12:03 pm. 
 
_________________________ 
Peter Luckham, Chair 
Certified Correct: 
 
________________________ 
Carly Bilney, Recorder