Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, June 29, 2022

[0:00:04] Trustee Luckham: Okay, I'm going to ignore these messages. So good morning, everyone. Welcome to the

[0:00:10] Trustee Luckham: Bolinas-Winchelsea Islands Local Trust Committee meeting. My name is Peter Luckham. I'm elected

[0:00:17] Trustee Luckham: on Thetis Island. I'm the appointed chair of the Bolinas-Winchelsea Islands. I live here on Thetis

[0:00:26] Trustee Luckham: Island in L'Aix and in Penelope territory, and I'm grateful every day to live here and

[0:00:33] Trustee Luckham: experience the rich natural environment, the Coast Salish history, culture, and advise

[0:00:44] Trustee Luckham: everyone to learn as much as they can about the history of this place.

[0:00:49] Trustee Luckham: I'm joined here today by the vice chair of the executive committee that are also appointed

[0:00:54] Trustee Luckham: as trustees for the Berlin Springs Healthy Islands local trust area and have Trustee Patrick elected

[0:01:02] Trustee Luckham: on Salt Spring Island. Good morning. Trustee Rogers elected on Gambier Keeps Island. Good morning.

[0:01:08] Trustee Luckham: And Trustee Councillor Sue Ellen Fast from Bowen Island. Good morning. Also

[0:01:14] Trustee Luckham: with us today is

[0:01:16] Trustee Luckham: a couple of members of staff. Lori Foster looking after this session. Heather Cowher,

[0:01:23] Trustee Luckham: for our regional planning manager and planner for the Bolinas and Chelsea Islands.

[0:01:27] Trustee Luckham: I think Will Caldingham is in the background as well assisting us and thank you to everybody

[0:01:32] Trustee Luckham: for making this meeting possible.

[0:01:38] Trustee Luckham: So just going through my notes here.

[0:01:41] Trustee Luckham: So this meeting being conducted electronically, certainly historically we've experienced problems

[0:01:46] Trustee Luckham: with the technology, so please bear with us and there is a town hall portion of the meeting

[0:01:52] Trustee Luckham: and if you'd like to speak you will need to raise your hand i think we're doing that because this is

[0:01:58] Trustee Luckham: a webinar yeah i see a nod so thank you and so if there's anybody uh observing um and wishes

[0:02:05] Trustee Luckham: to participate you will need to come in on to a part 10 participant link rather than just viewing

[0:02:13] Trustee Luckham: uh the session on the webinar if you're joining us by telephone uh star nine will help you raise

[0:02:19] Trustee Luckham: raise your hand and star six will help you mute

[0:02:23] Trustee Luckham: and unmute your phone.

[0:02:25] Trustee Luckham: So please do that if possible.

[0:02:28] Trustee Luckham: So appreciate your understanding and your participation.

[0:02:32] Trustee Luckham: And with that, I think I will begin the meeting.

[0:02:39] Trustee Luckham: And so we have an agenda before us,

[0:02:43] Trustee Luckham: surprisingly two pages for a short meeting,

[0:02:46] Trustee Luckham: but I'll ask if there's any additions or deletions from the agenda from anybody please raise your

[0:02:52] Trustee Luckham: digital hand all right not seeing anything then I will then take it that we will adopt the agenda

[0:03:02] Trustee Luckham: as presented by general consent and so I'm now going to go to the town hall section I don't see

[0:03:11] Trustee Luckham: any attendees there I'm just going to pause for a moment in case you did come in on the live

[0:03:16] Trustee Luckham: streaming and want to speak to the ltc today you can find the link on the website just going to

[0:03:26] Trustee Luckham: pause for a moment to allow that opportunity if that's all right vice chairs and we can come back

[0:03:35] Trustee Luckham: if i see somebody pop up in the attendees list i'll look at it mr

[0:03:42] Voice 5: chick can i make a procedural

[0:03:44] Voice 5: procedural comment while we're here?

[0:03:45] Voice 5: Sure.

[0:03:46] Voice 5: We've started to use the phrase public comment period

[0:03:51] Voice 5: in some places,

[0:03:54] Voice 5: which is actually quite controversial on some islands.

[0:03:58] Voice 5: But I wondered if we could do that here,

[0:04:01] Voice 5: just to sort of set a tone.

[0:04:04] Trustee Luckham: Well, certainly we can change the agenda item town hall

[0:04:09] Trustee Luckham: to public comment period,

[0:04:11] Trustee Luckham: if that's what we would like to do.

[0:04:13] Trustee Luckham: indeed that does seem to be a trend this term to do that um who knows what the trend might be next

[0:04:19] Trustee Luckham: term um but um i would just suggest uh that by way of motion or heather does that you want a motion

[0:04:27] Trustee Luckham: to that you just change it

[0:04:28] Voice 2: well we can just change it but i do have a kind of a comment on that

[0:04:33] Voice 4: oh okay um

[0:04:35] Voice 2: yeah i had asked the question of uh robert guajima and david marler about this the

[0:04:42] Voice 2: town hall and what it's supposed to be if it is in fact a public comment period where

[0:04:48] Voice 2: the public just provides their comments on things or if it is a question and answer period where the

[0:04:55] Voice 2: public can ask questions of the ltc and the ltc responds and um the reason i'd asked is because i

[0:05:04] Voice 2: I observed that different chairs appeared to treat that period differently.

[0:05:11] Voice 2: And so David Marler had explained that the reason it's called a town hall

[0:05:18] Voice 2: and the way that it started was, in fact, an opportunity for dialogue,

[0:05:24] Voice 2: that the public was supposed to be able to ask questions and dialogue if they wanted.

[0:05:28] Voice 2: Now, there's a time period associated with it,

[0:05:31] Voice 2: But but there it all kind of started when people would hang around and ask individual trustees after a meeting was already over and get and get answers that may be different than what the entire LTC thinks or members of the LTC.

[0:05:48] Voice 2: So it was originally intended to be a question and answer period.

[0:05:53] Voice 2: And so I just wanted to kind of throw that out there.

[0:05:58] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you for that, Heather.

[0:06:00] Trustee Luckham: Certainly, there's been lots of discussions over the years.

[0:06:03] Trustee Luckham: I think the most evolved conversation actually does exist on Salt Spring Island where I think

[0:06:14] Trustee Luckham: the I'm not sure if we now call a comment period or not actually tell you the truth but indeed

[0:06:18] Trustee Luckham: there was a change as a result of some members of the public wanting to be formally acknowledged

[0:06:28] Trustee Luckham: that they could ask questions and gets answered so indeed we called it town hall and questions

[0:06:32] Trustee Luckham: and answers or something um but also the town hall portion of the salt spring is much more uh

[0:06:40] Trustee Luckham: structured um because often we get many people and so the media the town hall is divided up

[0:06:46] Trustee Luckham: community comment period is divided up into three sections um those members of the public wish to

[0:06:51] Trustee Luckham: speak on items on today's agenda who are not the applicants the applicants get their opportunity

[0:06:56] Trustee Luckham: opportunity, blah, blah. And so application is a proceed process. But anybody that wishes to speak

[0:07:02] Trustee Luckham: to applications on our today's agenda, and then individuals to the public, they want to speak to

[0:07:09] Trustee Luckham: and that's the language I use speak to applications that are in stream that may not be on today's

[0:07:14] Trustee Luckham: agenda. And then the third item with much broader catch all is, does anybody want to speak to the

[0:07:21] Trustee Luckham: the local trust committee about anything within the island's trust

[0:07:25] Trustee Luckham: jurisdiction.

[0:07:26] Trustee Luckham: And we've added that in the jurisdiction because we get people that have

[0:07:30] Trustee Luckham: come in the past that want to go in all kinds of directions and isn't

[0:07:36] Trustee Luckham: necessarily constructive use of the time.

[0:07:40] Trustee Luckham: So, and so that helps,

[0:07:42] Trustee Luckham: but there's certainly lots of room for variation on the theme here.

[0:07:46] Trustee Luckham: I don't see any attendees today and usually it's about local issues.

[0:07:52] Trustee Luckham: but I guess that's a conversation that'll continue on.

[0:07:54] Trustee Luckham: But I think that I'm looking at general consensus on-

[0:07:58] Voice 7: Mr. Chair, I've had

[0:07:59] Trustee Luckham: my hand up.

[0:08:01] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, that's fine.

[0:08:02] Trustee Luckham: General, so I'll just come to you.

[0:08:03] Trustee Luckham: General consensus today,

[0:08:06] Trustee Luckham: do we want to change this from town hall to community,

[0:08:09] Trustee Luckham: to community comment?

[0:08:12] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you.

[0:08:14] Trustee Luckham: And so with that, I'll go to Sue Ellen Fast

[0:08:17] Trustee Luckham: and see if you have a preference one way or the other.

[0:08:20] Trustee Luckham: um

[0:08:21] Voice 7: yeah i just think that we did change it in the um meeting procedure bylaw that we adopted

[0:08:27] Voice 7: in january and i think it's called uh public comments in there and uh because we did have this

[0:08:34] Voice 7: um discussion i believe at uh trust council and um part of the discussion i didn't know about the

[0:08:43] Voice 7: details about uh salt spring and uh so i think i support the idea of calling it public comments

[0:08:49] Voice 7: and uh if we do uh for this local trust committee get a lot of questions we could always add a

[0:08:55] Voice 7: question period to the agenda um that's something we do on bowen we have one a question period

[0:09:02] Voice 7: at the very end of the meeting of the public meeting and um public comments are just i think

[0:09:09] Voice 7: this also fits with what you find at the islands trust new website where it says share your views

[0:09:16] Voice 7: So I think I support changing it to public comments.

[0:09:19] Voice 7: Thank you.

[0:09:21] Voice 4: Anybody else?

[0:09:23] Voice 4: Otherwise we'll go ahead again.

[0:09:25] Voice 5: Sure, thanks.

[0:09:28] Voice 5: Thanks to RPM Cower.

[0:09:32] Voice 5: Yes, I agree there is different practices

[0:09:35] Voice 5: and it depends on the nature of the community.

[0:09:39] Voice 5: It is much more an interactive dialogue,

[0:09:44] Voice 5: I'd say on main island for example where people ask questions but that's usually

[0:09:54] Voice 5: because there's like six people there they're there that are ready wine ask

[0:09:59] Voice 5: questions and and they and so becomes that way and it's quite and it's quite

[0:10:07] Voice 5: civil other islands it can be quite confrontational becomes a bit like a

[0:10:14] Voice 5: public hearing uh and if we ended up in a question and answer session it would go on i already do

[0:10:20] Voice 5: at least an hour of town hall every time i do galliano and if we turned it into a q a session

[0:10:29] Voice 5: every time it would be it would take up the whole meeting so it depends um so i personally think

[0:10:36] Voice 5: that sort of public comment period uh with some flexibility around this also is a time if you

[0:10:42] Voice 5: but I think we've started to move towards public and that would make Alison Morris very happy

[0:10:51] Voice 5: because she used to always lobby us to change it to public comment period

[0:10:56] Trustee Luckham: right anyway okay thank

[0:10:59] Trustee Luckham: you Dan so I think that by policy and by general consent we'll assume that's going to become public

[0:11:04] Trustee Luckham: comment but I too am would be concerned about us going too much into questions because of course

[0:11:10] Trustee Luckham: we don't necessarily have researched answers and and that is a cragmire that might be difficult to

[0:11:16] Trustee Luckham: enter into um but i just want to remark um that there's all you know this topic has been debated

[0:11:22] Trustee Luckham: for so many times on so many councils um that um the notion that the town hall is at the beginning

[0:11:30] Trustee Luckham: of the meeting and that was a decision that was made um to support town halls being at the beginning

[0:11:35] Trustee Luckham: and not a town hall at the end

[0:11:37] Trustee Luckham: or a question and answer at the end,

[0:11:39] Trustee Luckham: because of course that begs the opportunity

[0:11:42] Trustee Luckham: for the members of the public to reprimand you

[0:11:45] Trustee Luckham: for the decisions that you made prior in the meeting

[0:11:48] Trustee Luckham: and second guess the decisions that you made in the meeting.

[0:11:52] Trustee Luckham: And I think the idea is to have all the information

[0:11:54] Trustee Luckham: going into the decision-making

[0:11:56] Trustee Luckham: and then whether or not everybody's happy or not

[0:11:58] Trustee Luckham: is another question.

[0:12:00] Trustee Luckham: But the CAO has always suggested

[0:12:03] Trustee Luckham: that another town hall at the end of the meeting is not the best place because um are you going to

[0:12:10] Trustee Luckham: change your mind based upon what you heard in the second town hall um anyway i

[0:12:15] Voice 7: agree mr chair that's

[0:12:17] Voice 7: mostly for the press because we have a um perfect

[0:12:21] Trustee Luckham: okay let us move along if that's all right we have

[0:12:26] Trustee Luckham: minutes from the local trust committee meeting dated march the 16th for adoption are there any

[0:12:29] Trustee Luckham: Any changes in electronic hand would be great

[0:12:31] Trustee Luckham: if you have anything.

[0:12:34] Trustee Luckham: Not seeing any, then I will take it by general consent

[0:12:37] Trustee Luckham: that the minutes of March the 16th

[0:12:39] Trustee Luckham: be adopted as presented.

[0:12:42] Trustee Luckham: We have a section 26 resolution without meeting report

[0:12:46] Trustee Luckham: from the June, dated June the 8th.

[0:12:50] Trustee Luckham: And I'll ask if there's any questions about that,

[0:12:54] Trustee Luckham: but we'll just receive it for information otherwise.

[0:12:56] Trustee Luckham: Not seeing any hands.

[0:12:58] Trustee Luckham: We'll receive that for information.

[0:13:00] Trustee Luckham: A follow-up action list dated June the 8th is here, and I'll ask Region Planning Manager

[0:13:07] Trustee Luckham: Carr if there's anything that she wants to update on that, or we'll just ask if there's

[0:13:12] Trustee Luckham: any questions.

[0:13:13] Trustee Luckham: I'm not seeing

[0:13:17] Trustee Luckham: your hand come up, I assume.

[0:13:19] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I'm going to

[0:13:20] Trustee Luckham: have to change my screen, I don't know why I can't see everybody.

[0:13:24] Trustee Luckham: Let's go gallery.

[0:13:26] Trustee Luckham: There we go, now I've got you all.

[0:13:28] Trustee Luckham: um okay so uh any questions on the follow-up action list from vice chairs or from trustees

[0:13:36] Trustee Luckham: in this case no okay so we received that applications none projects list uh staff report

[0:13:44] Trustee Luckham: i'll just um ask heather if you have any further updates to the staff report

[0:13:49] Trustee Luckham: was that a nod yes no no updates any questions about the uh projects list running late in the

[0:13:57] Trustee Luckham: the term here uh trustee rogers sorry i should have used my electron

[0:14:05] Voice 7: can't hear you dan

[0:14:06] Voice 5: can't

[0:14:07] Voice 5: hear you you can't hear me now i can

[0:14:11] Voice 5: hear you oh it's

[0:14:13] Voice 2: when you're facing the no i've got my i've

[0:14:16] Voice 5: got my fancy

[0:14:17] Voice 2: headphones on i think there was a

[0:14:18] Voice 5: delay in unmuting that's all okay i hope you can

[0:14:21] Voice 5: hear me so

[0:14:23] Voice 4: now we

[0:14:24] Voice 4: don't hear you oh

[0:14:26] Trustee Luckham: some that's off now nothing oh there we go that's better

[0:14:35] Voice 5: um

[0:14:37] Voice 5: okay we're talking about the staff report on page nine

[0:14:40] Trustee Luckham: that's correct

[0:14:41] Voice 5: okay so thank you very much

[0:14:43] Voice 5: for this rpm cower um i thought it was a very interesting read and a good analysis of what

[0:14:49] Voice 5: we're doing and my understanding is that the recommendation is basically that we add the um

[0:14:57] Voice 5: add a to recommend to the next uh committee that there there be a comprehensive ocplub project put

[0:15:04] Voice 5: on the list and that we rationalize some of the other items that are on our project list

[0:15:10] Voice 5: list um that's the way i read

[0:15:12] Voice 1: your meeting and

[0:15:15] Voice 5: laurie's in a meeting um as uh you might want to

[0:15:19] Voice 5: mute yourself laurie uh and uh is that and that you wanted us to rationalize the other items on

[0:15:26] Voice 5: the on the projects list and so i think we have it looked like a decision item to me is that way

[0:15:32] Voice 5: i'm reading it that's

[0:15:33] Voice 2: right okay

[0:15:34] Voice 5: so uh let me just say um i i i don't know quite how to address the

[0:15:39] Voice 5: the issue about you wanted us to remove

[0:15:44] Voice 5: or redefine the first project

[0:15:47] Voice 5: about the coordinating boat tour

[0:15:51] Voice 5: and meetings with the Nanus First Nation, et cetera.

[0:15:56] Voice 5: But I agree with you,

[0:15:59] Voice 5: we need to redefine that project in some way.

[0:16:03] Voice 5: And I really like your suggestion

[0:16:05] Voice 5: that a project to do a comprehensive OCP ELUB project

[0:16:12] Voice 5: in the top priorities list could very much incorporate,

[0:16:18] Voice 5: for example, implementation of the Coastal Douglas firs,

[0:16:22] Voice 5: et cetera, et cetera, items into a thing.

[0:16:25] Voice 5: Because this is an odd committee,

[0:16:30] Voice 5: this local trust committee,

[0:16:32] Voice 5: because it doesn't, I mean,

[0:16:36] Voice 5: We've tried a few times to organize some things to get things done, and we've talked to some of the residents a few times about things we could do, but it doesn't actually feel like, through my four years, that we've actually taken concrete steps going forward.

[0:16:53] Voice 5: forward um so it would be great to have something like an ocplub it does and it could take the whole

[0:16:59] Voice 5: term to do it you know you don't have to move quickly but to have a really good look in the

[0:17:04] Voice 5: context of all the things that we're doing to have a look at what they're doing so thank you

[0:17:08] Voice 5: for those recommendations um I would like to keep some sort of a goal uh for the next um uh local

[0:17:17] Voice 5: trust committee whatever that might look like to actually improve the relationship with the

[0:17:23] Voice 5: and the news first nations in some way i don't know what that might look like

[0:17:27] Voice 5: um but it's a bit a disappointment to me that we never found a way to do that this term um and i

[0:17:35] Voice 5: don't think it's not going to happen now so uh it's uh it's a disappointment to me that we never

[0:17:42] Voice 5: And of course, COVID got in the way in a big way in the middle of this term.

[0:17:46] Voice 5: But it's just a disappointment to me that we never made that happen.

[0:17:49] Voice 5: And I think that would be an important part to do.

[0:17:52] Voice 5: We have two major relationships in this area besides the people in the three, I guess, besides the people who live there.

[0:17:59] Voice 5: And that's one with the First Nations, two with the Mount Arrowsmith Biosphere, and three with the regional district.

[0:18:06] Voice 5: and each of those relationships could could utilize a coming together in some way and maybe

[0:18:14] Voice 5: we could put an objective on the to a project to hold a I don't know what I don't want to call it

[0:18:20] Voice 5: a summit meeting but maybe we could put on the as an objective to organize a joint meeting between

[0:18:27] Voice 5: the four and anybody else that I've forgotten groups to sort of talk about developing as we

[0:18:35] Voice 5: move through the ocp and that and that could be a sorry i'm sort of wandering a little bit that

[0:18:39] Voice 5: could be a a strategy under the ocp lub reviews so i i support that and thank you for this i i

[0:18:47] Voice 5: think it was a very good summary in two and a half pages you sort of gave us what some direction for

[0:18:54] Voice 5: us to go forward uh

[0:18:57] Trustee Luckham: i'm not sure whose hand was up first uh trustee patrick or fast that trust

[0:19:03] Trustee Luckham: Let's be fast then, over to you.

[0:19:05] Voice 7: Okay, thank you, Chair.

[0:19:07] Voice 7: I agree with Trustee Rogers.

[0:19:12] Voice 7: Thank you very much for this, Heather,

[0:19:14] Voice 7: Regional Planning Manager Crowley.

[0:19:16] Voice 7: I think this is good because I've been concerned

[0:19:20] Voice 7: that here we've got this magnificent local trust area

[0:19:24] Voice 7: and we have the opportunity to plan ahead

[0:19:29] Voice 7: for whatever changes may be coming down the pike

[0:19:32] Voice 7: And I think this is a really good way to do it, partly because, as well as the reconciliation, we've got First Nations as one of those key collaborators that Trustee Rogers was talking about, the biosphere, the residents, regional district, and the local First Nations.

[0:19:55] Voice 7: And I think the idea of a OCP LUB review with those two big major activities in it is makes it worthwhile for people to get together.

[0:20:07] Voice 7: It's a reason for collaborating.

[0:20:09] Voice 7: And from what I've gathered, many of us, including First Nations, have limited time and resources.

[0:20:20] Voice 7: And to do, to get together for, at the planning portion, rather than the referral portion, I think might be of more interest if they're like other First Nations that I have seen responses from.

[0:20:41] Voice 7: So I just, I'm in support of this. I think it's a, it's a good idea. And I, I like the idea of just sticking with priority number one and leaving the rest of the, and lumping them up into that, the two major ones under those two big activities. I'm looking at page 12. I like that summary and I'm in favor. Thank you.

[0:21:04] Voice 4: Laura Patrick.

[0:21:05] Voice 4: Patrick, I

[0:21:07] Trustee Patrick: would highly recommend that we add a first activity under those two activities.

[0:21:12] Trustee Patrick: And that first activity should be engagement with First Nations and other interest groups, whether it's Mount Aerosmith or who, to scope the OCP review.

[0:21:26] Trustee Patrick: I think we should be we should call that out. I know there aren't very many people that live here.

[0:21:31] Trustee Patrick: i think for us and the executive committee we need to make this particular local trust committee be

[0:21:35] Trustee Patrick: that example of how to do it right and it's my concern is like i said at the project definition

[0:21:43] Trustee Patrick: phase while these two items sound good uh we've already jumped to a conclusion and made a decision

[0:21:48] Trustee Patrick: and so i think we need to always begin with uh while that might be our intended direction that

[0:21:54] Trustee Patrick: we need to start first with first nations and and see maybe there's something else that's a higher

[0:21:58] Trustee Patrick: priority in that area that we're not contemplating so i don't know if i need to amend this i'll look

[0:22:04] Trustee Patrick: to my fellow how we could do that to either add a specific activity um

[0:22:11] Trustee Luckham: maybe i'll just speak up here

[0:22:14] Trustee Luckham: and dan i see your hand up i'll come to you to speak to it a second time just want to add my

[0:22:19] Trustee Luckham: thoughts here um we updated the ocp and the lgbt i think in 2013 and um you know there indeed

[0:22:34] Trustee Luckham: there's like three people who live actively involved in the trust area there may be a few

[0:22:40] Trustee Luckham: more than that and certainly there's very few islands most of them being crowned um and or

[0:22:44] Trustee Luckham: federal being uh the military installation there and uh the zoning on the waters um we did um

[0:22:53] Trustee Luckham: I'm trying to remember now, there was quite a long discussion about agriculture, which

[0:22:57] Trustee Luckham: NANUS got involved in, and we worked with them to change the language that was initially

[0:23:03] Trustee Luckham: intended.

[0:23:07] Trustee Luckham: Quite honestly, I don't know that doing an OCP or an LWB review is necessarily relevant

[0:23:12] Trustee Luckham: at this time, other than perhaps amending the introduction and the acknowledgement of

[0:23:17] Trustee Luckham: First Nations in the area.

[0:23:18] Trustee Luckham: And I'd have to actually read through the document again to be sure whether or not we

[0:23:22] Trustee Luckham: who wanted to do that.

[0:23:23] Trustee Luckham: But certainly over the last two terms,

[0:23:26] Trustee Luckham: we've attempted to engage with the new

[0:23:31] Trustee Luckham: S'Nananas First Nation,

[0:23:32] Trustee Luckham: and that has not been successful.

[0:23:35] Trustee Luckham: And so I don't think we would wanna proceed

[0:23:39] Trustee Luckham: in any direction about any project to tell you the truth

[0:23:43] Trustee Luckham: without actually having had some kind of a conversation

[0:23:46] Trustee Luckham: about what the significance of these islands are

[0:23:48] Trustee Luckham: to the First Nations in the area.

[0:23:50] Trustee Luckham: we did down zone just for uh information we did down zone berlin just went chelsea

[0:23:58] Trustee Luckham: so that it couldn't be subdivided so that if anybody wants to do something over there they're

[0:24:03] Trustee Luckham: going to have to come with us to us and that was the check there and the the individuals that have

[0:24:08] Trustee Luckham: come to uh i'm grateful that they come uh on um on mystery island hoping i've got that name right

[0:24:16] Trustee Luckham: Right. I think that it would raise a level of anxiety amongst those that are residents in the area.

[0:24:26] Trustee Luckham: If we were doing some OCP and LUB, a major project, because what's wrong, what are we trying to fix and why are we doing it would be the question that I would want to know.

[0:24:36] Trustee Luckham: And certainly, it would also maybe perhaps, without doing the advanced work of developing a relationship with the Sononovs nation, even talking about doing an OCP and LUB major project might raise their anxiety on that.

[0:24:53] Trustee Luckham: And I think it would be better to have a conversation and talk about, you know, these are the kinds of things that we could do if there was interest and support for it.

[0:25:01] Trustee Luckham: So I would suggest we be careful. And certainly, I don't have any trouble with the advancing, making recommendations to the incoming LTC. But I would suggest we should leave this for further thought to a future LTC. That's my two cents.

[0:25:21] Trustee Luckham: Not that there isn't things we could do, but I don't know what they would be, because there's not anything happening, and the potential for anything to happen is very small.

[0:25:34] Trustee Luckham: So

[0:25:34] Voice 4: Dan, over to you.

[0:25:40] Voice 5: Yeah, sorry.

[0:25:42] Voice 5: I'm just thinking about what you said, sir, Mr. Chair.

[0:25:48] Voice 5: And as I said in my first comments,

[0:25:53] Voice 5: it does feel a bit pro forma

[0:25:57] Voice 5: when we don't have anything on our agenda to work on.

[0:26:00] Voice 5: And well, is it?

[0:26:05] Voice 5: Then why are we here?

[0:26:08] Voice 5: But I wanted to actually,

[0:26:09] Voice 5: because this is one of those rare meetings when we actually have a little bit of time

[0:26:13] Voice 5: um follow up on vice chair patrick's comments because i she has for or trustee patrick i guess

[0:26:23] Voice 5: in this case for many for many for quite some time been talking about scoping projects and the word

[0:26:29] Voice 5: using the word scope and my um understanding has always been well that's what the that's what the

[0:26:41] Voice 5: the project charter phase is about.

[0:26:46] Voice 5: And because you're defining what the scope

[0:26:48] Voice 5: of the project is in there and what's in and what's out,

[0:26:51] Voice 5: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[0:26:52] Voice 5: And I've been wondering what the frustration

[0:26:54] Voice 5: that she's clearly evidence

[0:26:57] Voice 5: that that works not being done properly.

[0:27:01] Voice 5: And I get that sometimes it may look that way

[0:27:05] Voice 5: and it may in fact be that way,

[0:27:08] Voice 5: But I'm now thinking that by scoping, Trustee Patrick's talking about something entirely different, and I'd like to know what that is, because, as I said, my understanding is that the scoping has always been, well, that's what we do when we set up the project charter and talk about, well, here's what we're going to do, and here's what's not going to do, and here's what we're going to work on, etc.

[0:27:34] Voice 5: et cetera. And we define it in that context. But I think now that I hear Trustee Patrick talk

[0:27:40] Voice 5: some more, it may be that she's referring to something else that is not what I had her

[0:27:46] Voice 5: scoping to be. And I hope it's okay if I sort of jump ahead of Vice Chair Faston and RPM Cowher

[0:27:54] Voice 5: and ask Trustee Patrick if she could explain that, because maybe I've been misunderstanding

[0:28:01] Voice 5: understanding all these months it's

[0:28:05] Trustee Patrick: work in progress i think as we talk our way out and i

[0:28:09] Trustee Patrick: see how they're laughing this is it this is an opportunity through the there's scoping comes in

[0:28:17] Trustee Patrick: two ways one is we look to staff and say please advise us on what you think we should do and

[0:28:23] Trustee Patrick: that's a fair question but it's a loaded question a lot of times staff are like okay here we go uh

[0:28:28] Trustee Patrick: you know, we'll give you our best advice. And then there's sort of political scoping of where

[0:28:34] Trustee Patrick: are we as the political or elected providing direction and pointing stop into a particular

[0:28:43] Trustee Patrick: area. And I think the project definition phase that I've been pushing is that's where, you know,

[0:28:51] Trustee Patrick: I kind of think of a funnel, you know, you've got all that input of information that's out there.

[0:28:55] Trustee Patrick: And it's the time when if we are going to engage First Nations meaningfully, it's having those conversations early at the political level to understand what is it that they're thinking or where are they're directing so that we can translate that basically to, okay, where's this project going or how do we move forward with this project?

[0:29:20] Trustee Patrick: So it's, you know, it's scoping, I guess you could say, from a political level is sort of the first step I'm really looking at so that we are giving clearer direction to staff before they come back with a project charter or, you know, there may be the first project.

[0:29:40] Trustee Patrick: if they have to have a project charter to support that stage,

[0:29:43] Trustee Patrick: it may be very slim by saying, okay, we're going to do a boat tour.

[0:29:49] Trustee Patrick: You know,

[0:29:50] Trustee Patrick: how are we going to engage with first nations to or the community or Mount

[0:29:55] Trustee Patrick: Aerosmith or whoever the resident, you know,

[0:29:57] Trustee Patrick: how are we intending to do that at that?

[0:30:00] Trustee Patrick: very early phase what's the promise we're making what's the level of engagement that we're

[0:30:05] Trustee Patrick: intending to use and those those questions that are important but it's now allowing that space

[0:30:10] Trustee Patrick: to collect that information to then inform our next step of okay how are we directing this project

[0:30:16] Trustee Patrick: to go to the next step i'm

[0:30:21] Voice 5: sorry i'm still not understanding the difference between that and a

[0:30:23] Voice 5: project charter discussion because that comes from the staff they set out here's what you've said you

[0:30:30] Voice 5: want to do on a broad level here's how we propose you're going to go about it now have a discussion

[0:30:35] Voice 5: about what's in in and out and how this is going to look and et cetera et cetera uh i mean i don't

[0:30:41] Voice 5: know it sounds the same to me and i just don't understand the distinction and except that you

[0:30:46] Voice 5: want to have a more robust discussion around it and i totally understand that and maybe engage

[0:30:52] Voice 5: early with the first nations but it still sounds to me like the same thing and i don't know i get

[0:30:59] Voice 5: maybe i'm just dense this morning

[0:31:00] Trustee Patrick: no it's it's the level of direction and you know it's it's for

[0:31:10] Trustee Patrick: me a lot of it's based on observations i've seen not necessarily in the north because i probably

[0:31:14] Trustee Patrick: i see it more in the south where you know we make it let's let's make the ocp a priority or let you

[0:31:22] Trustee Patrick: you know, we end up giving very minute information, our direction. And the more specific we can be,

[0:31:35] Trustee Patrick: you know, the better able staff are to respond and bring back that next step of, you know,

[0:31:41] Trustee Patrick: so if it's go do a project charter, you've already just told them to go make those decisions as to

[0:31:46] Trustee Patrick: what it is you're wanting to do. So it's spending that time at a political point of really

[0:31:53] Trustee Patrick: doing the work we need to do as trustees to in to be at that political level and have that direction

[0:32:02] Trustee Patrick: be um you know clearer and i think that's when as we move in with first nations reconciliation

[0:32:09] Trustee Patrick: we're allowing you know a lot is happening at the staff to staff level which is great

[0:32:15] Trustee Patrick: um but it's not happening at the political level and i think this this is this this building the

[0:32:20] Trustee Patrick: the relationship at the political level um on which translates to the direction so um i'm going

[0:32:31] Voice 4: to go to uh trustee

[0:32:33] Trustee Luckham: fast and i want to hear from uh regional planners mayor cower and then i want

[0:32:37] Trustee Luckham: to try and help answer that question a little bit as well so well i'm fast sure

[0:32:42] Voice 7: thanks i will

[0:32:43] Voice 7: i just um i remember planning the boat tour and it's not just covid that got in the way there was

[0:32:50] Voice 7: also um boat trouble we got to the point and stormy weather coming and um a boat engine that

[0:32:59] Voice 7: was broken we were so close so i think that would be a good thing to uh use if we wanted to revive

[0:33:06] Voice 7: that or suggest to the next local trust committee that they revive that in order to um uh help us

[0:33:16] Voice 7: scope a project now that it's 10 years past the previous ocp i didn't know about that

[0:33:24] Voice 7: down zoning in the marine side of it and that because i've been looking at the um

[0:33:28] Voice 7: uh looking at page 12 again and thinking that the um non-forest ecosystems would include

[0:33:36] Voice 7: kelp maybe they wouldn't or maybe they maybe that's not what people would assume

[0:33:41] Voice 7: soon um because i think of this local trust area as being mostly marine and uh mostly um

[0:33:51] Voice 7: uh kelp that needs restoration and i thought we had a i think there's a research project going on

[0:33:56] Voice 7: in there somewhere anyway uh vancouver uvic i think well anyway anyway i like the idea of um

[0:34:07] Voice 7: engaging First Nations in the engaging Sonoma's First Nation in the project definition phase

[0:34:13] Voice 7: and then we'd find out whether we had a project or not or whether it was something we could help

[0:34:18] Voice 7: with I like your wording Peter about here's the kind of thing we could do after 10 years of

[0:34:25] Voice 7: since the last OCP update certainly things have changed in terms maybe of the environment but in

[0:34:32] Voice 7: in terms of passing the Declaration of Reconciliation

[0:34:40] Voice 7: that the Alamance Trust has done

[0:34:41] Voice 7: and the Climate Emergency Declaration.

[0:34:44] Voice 7: And both of those with the recent kelp mapping

[0:34:50] Voice 7: and things like eelgrass mapping might help.

[0:34:54] Voice 7: If we could have a boat tour that was also a meeting

[0:34:57] Voice 7: to help us to scope or define a future project

[0:35:02] Voice 7: would be a great idea that we could recommend that's where i'm at currently thank you heather

[0:35:09] Voice 4: carter all

[0:35:10] Voice 2: right so a couple thoughts um one is that you know what i have understood uh trustee

[0:35:18] Voice 2: patrick to sort of mean is that well i mean one of them is is first nations engagement to

[0:35:26] Voice 2: to be checking in with first nations before you even undertake a project to see their level of

[0:35:32] Voice 2: of interest in participating or contributing or, you know,

[0:35:38] Voice 2: so checking in with First Nations first

[0:35:40] Voice 2: before a project charter is undertaken.

[0:35:43] Voice 2: And then I think, and correct me if I'm wrong,

[0:35:47] Voice 2: but to think about the problem that we're trying to solve

[0:35:53] Voice 2: and the deliverable that is most effective

[0:35:58] Voice 2: or desirable to solve that problem.

[0:36:00] Voice 2: You know, a lot of times we get an initiation of a project that is, we're going to do an OCP amendment to do this, but maybe an OCP amendment isn't really the best way to approach it or whatever it is, right?

[0:36:13] Voice 2: So that's how I've understood Trustee Patrick's approach in terms of project charter development.

[0:36:21] Voice 2: And you can let me know if I'm wrong on that.

[0:36:24] Voice 2: The question that that has posed, and I think this is a question for the organization as a whole at the moment, and it has been a question that we've been talking about as we've been talking about LPS renewal, which is, if a First Nation is not interested in being part of a project,

[0:36:42] Voice 2: or if they're sort of opposed to a project being undertaken,

[0:36:48] Voice 2: does that mean that we never update an OCP

[0:36:52] Voice 2: or we don't update an OCP until a First Nation is ready to be part of the project?

[0:36:59] Voice 2: And that's a dilemma since we have some other sorts of mandates

[0:37:05] Voice 2: and best practices regarding all of that.

[0:37:08] Voice 2: that. The LTC's primary job is OCPs and LUBs. I mean, in terms of the legislation, those

[0:37:19] Voice 2: are the documents that are your responsibility. And so it is, I think, an existential question.

[0:37:28] Voice 2: You know, what do we do around that? So just one more comment, and that is that the idea

[0:37:35] Voice 2: about having an OCP LUB on this list, what I came to was, you know, we, LTCs tend not to want to do

[0:37:47] Voice 2: a comprehensive review. You know, we don't get a lot of LTCs saying, yeah, I want to do the whole

[0:37:51] Voice 2: thing. We get LTCs saying, I want to do something about housing, or I want to get, I want to do

[0:37:56] Voice 2: something about forestry. And that is, that is, in my view, the primary reason why we don't do

[0:38:03] Voice 2: comprehensive plans and why our OCPs are so out of date is because we have to wait for an LTC to be

[0:38:09] Voice 2: motivated to do one. So one of the, one of the opportunities we have with the Bolinas-Winchelzi

[0:38:18] Voice 2: is that there, we could actually create a, an OCP and an LUB that are a template for the rest of

[0:38:30] Voice 2: of the trust, if you will,

[0:38:33] Voice 2: something that's best practice,

[0:38:34] Voice 2: something that's developed with climate change,

[0:38:37] Voice 2: for instance, in mind,

[0:38:39] Voice 2: which we still don't really have a good example of

[0:38:43] Voice 2: in Islands Trust because we haven't tackled an OCP

[0:38:46] Voice 2: around climate change.

[0:38:48] Voice 2: So Bolinas-Munch-Helsey is the opportunity

[0:38:51] Voice 2: to draft something that is an exemplary OCP

[0:38:56] Voice 2: that could be used as an example and doesn't need,

[0:39:00] Voice 2: the kind of public engagement at the local level that all the other LTCs are going to want.

[0:39:10] Voice 2: It really is sort of a best practice document as opposed to a lot of public engagement. But also,

[0:39:17] Voice 2: it could be our example of how we deal with First Nations. We still haven't really figured that out.

[0:39:24] Voice 2: How do we approach a First Nation and get them involved in projects beforehand?

[0:39:28] Voice 2: him. So, all right. So those are my thoughts.

[0:39:34] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. And hands down, I was going to try

[0:39:40] Trustee Luckham: and assist Laura with the answer to your question, but I see your hand up, so I'll let you go first.

[0:39:46] Trustee Luckham: And then if I feel it's necessity, I'll say a few more things.

[0:39:51] Trustee Patrick: And I really appreciate

[0:39:56] Trustee Patrick: Heather's work on, you know, as we try to move forward on figuring all this out. I mean,

[0:40:01] Trustee Patrick: I mean, this is, like I said, it's a work in progress as we go along.

[0:40:04] Trustee Patrick: And sometimes it is good to have these deeper conversations on a local trust area that we have the time to have these conversations.

[0:40:13] Trustee Patrick: It's a pleasure.

[0:40:16] Trustee Patrick: In some ways, yes, I would agree that when Chelsea Bolleus area is an opportunity.

[0:40:22] Trustee Patrick: but then again it's a it's so unique that it's missing so many of the other challenges that

[0:40:29] Trustee Patrick: we have in other areas on the you know the social realm and the extent of the of the other parties

[0:40:35] Trustee Patrick: that have interest regardless the examples that does lay out is the how do we do the in cooperation

[0:40:42] Trustee Patrick: with peace you know in the beginning who is it is it just first nations is it other parties who

[0:40:48] Trustee Patrick: who needs to be in tune to this we tend to shy away from that and say oh we'll just do things

[0:40:52] Trustee Patrick: within our jurisdiction i hate those words because there's nothing in our jurisdiction

[0:40:57] Trustee Patrick: we are mandated to work in cooperation with others and so that first step is you know are

[0:41:04] Trustee Patrick: the protocol agreements do we have protocol agreements are they up to date uh do they

[0:41:09] Trustee Patrick: cover the you know the route there's a lot of questions that can fall into that period

[0:41:14] Trustee Patrick: and you're right first nations might say well we're opposed to you doing something in this area

[0:41:18] Trustee Patrick: and that's then a political decision to decide how to respect the request that's been put forward

[0:41:22] Trustee Patrick: of course with staff advice as to you know where to go but a political decision would be

[0:41:28] Trustee Patrick: need to be made are we going to not proceed or proceed and that would have to be made so

[0:41:36] Trustee Patrick: I you know like I said I think it's the opportunities to make it an example are

[0:41:42] Trustee Patrick: thoroughly to make it an example that we have done the right thing and demonstrated the in

[0:41:48] Trustee Patrick: in cooperation with aspect of our mandate.

[0:41:53] Trustee Patrick: And that again, is that early step of who do we work with?

[0:42:03] Voice 4: Peter,

[0:42:04] Trustee Patrick: you've had a solution.

[0:42:05] Trustee Luckham: So, well, there are no solutions to this, I think.

[0:42:12] Trustee Luckham: You know, back to the question that Dan had about,

[0:42:17] Trustee Luckham: well, isn't that what the charter does?

[0:42:18] Trustee Luckham: Well, I actually think,

[0:42:20] Trustee Luckham: and I'm not necessarily reflecting Laura Patrick's

[0:42:24] Trustee Luckham: view on this i'm reflecting my own view of which i am very supportive of um the way trustee patrick

[0:42:32] Trustee Luckham: is approaching um this work and um i think that that this this what we're talking about the topic

[0:42:43] Trustee Luckham: is if it's not charter what is it it's the conversation that leads to the charter

[0:42:48] Trustee Luckham: charter that sets up sort of a visionary piece, some principles piece that is sounded or is

[0:42:57] Trustee Luckham: founded rather in not just First Nations conversations that lead up to that, but

[0:43:03] Trustee Luckham: community conversations. And it's not about this is the regulation or we're going to open up the

[0:43:09] Trustee Luckham: OCP and we're going to do X, Y, Z. It's about understanding values in the community held by

[0:43:17] Trustee Luckham: all of the interested parties, including the province of British Columbia and referral

[0:43:22] Trustee Luckham: agencies and others.

[0:43:24] Trustee Luckham: But of course, the mechanisms that we have in place are not necessarily suited to this

[0:43:30] Trustee Luckham: new idea about doing the work that we do in a meaningful way on the land and in the communities

[0:43:39] Trustee Luckham: that um that does indeed preserve delivers on our preserve and protect but also incorporates

[0:43:45] Trustee Luckham: um the wisdom and knowledge um from our communities because of course what always

[0:43:52] Trustee Luckham: happens in these scenarios is you say you're going to do this and let's just take shoreline

[0:43:56] Trustee Luckham: development permit areas for example well why do you need why are you protecting what's what's

[0:44:01] Trustee Luckham: wrong with what's going on like i i can build a house on 10 feet from the waterfront that's

[0:44:06] Trustee Luckham: perfect i don't want to change it and so we need to bring community along to understand the work

[0:44:11] Trustee Luckham: that we're doing in order for it to be successful in my mind so um that so i just think it's the

[0:44:18] Trustee Luckham: conversation that leads up to identifying what work it is that we need to or want to do

[0:44:24] Trustee Luckham: perhaps to solve problems ideally or create solutions for areas where there might be problems

[0:44:29] Trustee Luckham: problems, in advance of there being problems. But that said, there's two things here. I just

[0:44:39] Trustee Luckham: think, I don't think that Bellina-Swin-Chelsea, sorry, Heather, that Bellina-Swin-Chelsea would

[0:44:44] Trustee Luckham: be a good example. Because as Laura has said, it's completely unique. And in fact, I think

[0:44:51] Trustee Luckham: one of the singularly most difficult things that we had when we addressed climate change,

[0:44:55] Trustee Luckham: And we were told by the province to include climate targets in our OCPs.

[0:45:02] Trustee Luckham: Every single small island, small, and Bolinas, Winchelsea is certainly one of them, is what on earth are you talking about?

[0:45:10] Trustee Luckham: We are about as carbon neutral as it gets.

[0:45:13] Trustee Luckham: And we can't get any lower.

[0:45:18] Trustee Luckham: Right?

[0:45:18] Trustee Luckham: It's just not possible.

[0:45:22] Trustee Luckham: So there's an example that you wouldn't solve it.

[0:45:25] Trustee Luckham: and therefore would not be a good template for a future another ltc and then certainly

[0:45:31] Trustee Luckham: we're a land use planner and i totally appreciate that and i really appreciate

[0:45:35] Trustee Luckham: the um the the view that you bring to us heather in that this is our work and we need to do our

[0:45:42] Trustee Luckham: work which is regulation and ocps um however we are also obligated not only through our own

[0:45:50] Trustee Luckham: declaration, but through provincial and federal dictates that we seek out and have opportunities

[0:45:59] Trustee Luckham: for meaningful engagement with First Nations. That's a requirement. And so for me, that

[0:46:05] Trustee Luckham: engagement, meaningful engagement is something that we're not there yet. And we need to continue

[0:46:11] Trustee Luckham: to work on. But in the meantime, certainly day to day, we need to continue the business

[0:46:15] Trustee Luckham: of the local trust committees in order to continue to deliver

[0:46:19] Trustee Luckham: on the Prison and Protect mandate, because if we stop doing everything,

[0:46:22] Trustee Luckham: that would be a different set of problems.

[0:46:24] Trustee Luckham: But in the meantime, I think I am not in favor of identifying

[0:46:28] Trustee Luckham: an OCP as a project, because I know that's going to cause

[0:46:32] Trustee Luckham: a problem for us, because it sounds like, and no disrespect intended,

[0:46:38] Trustee Luckham: it just sounds like an LTC looking for work.

[0:46:44] Trustee Luckham: what's broken what's wrong why do we need to do this uh belenus i honestly believe belenus

[0:46:50] Trustee Luckham: when chelsea island is protected by having down zoned it um and i can't remember the other things

[0:46:56] Trustee Luckham: but i was involved in that ocplub amendment stuff then and i just know that i and i can

[0:47:02] Trustee Luckham: visualize the folks that are there that do live there um so what are you doing this for

[0:47:07] Trustee Luckham: Are we doing something wrong?

[0:47:10] Trustee Luckham: And certainly moving the islets into some greater level of care through marine protected areas would be something that would be useful, but it's not something we can do.

[0:47:19] Trustee Luckham: That's not in our jurisdiction.

[0:47:23] Trustee Luckham: Encouraging transfer of those lands to First Nations would also be something that would be exciting, but it's not something that we do.

[0:47:30] Trustee Luckham: so i uh would think that what we want to do is uh recommend to the incoming uh local trust committee

[0:47:36] Trustee Luckham: that they continue the work of reaching out to this dananas first nation and others

[0:47:41] Trustee Luckham: in order to um understand their values associated with those islands which are spectacular

[0:47:50] Trustee Luckham: um i think that's it what direction does the ltc want to take we have a recommendation which

[0:48:00] Trustee Luckham: which if it includes an OCP, an LUB update,

[0:48:04] Trustee Luckham: I'm not in favor.

[0:48:06] Trustee Luckham: Laura Patrick.

[0:48:07] Trustee Patrick: Well, I'm going to just keep the ball rolling.

[0:48:10] Trustee Patrick: I'm going to make a motion that we amend attachment one.

[0:48:14] Trustee Patrick: I don't know if that's the right reference

[0:48:15] Trustee Patrick: to add a first activity to conduct early engagement

[0:48:22] Trustee Patrick: with First Nations and others.

[0:48:27] Trustee Patrick: I don't know what term to use.

[0:48:30] Trustee Patrick: um other key i don't know i look for collaborators

[0:48:35] Voice 7: potential potential collaborators

[0:48:39] Trustee Patrick: um stakeholders i

[0:48:40] Trustee Patrick: just want to keep it high level but yeah i don't want to say other state because

[0:48:43] Trustee Patrick: first nations aren't

[0:48:44] Voice 7: stakeholders so that's why i'm

[0:48:45] Trustee Patrick: caught in the term so and others i'll leave

[0:48:47] Trustee Patrick: that at the and others um to define the project okay or

[0:49:00] Trustee Patrick: to get input to define the project

[0:49:02] Trustee Patrick: maybe that's the

[0:49:04] Trustee Patrick: word sorry lori i gave you a challenging motion there we'll have to well can

[0:49:08] Trustee Luckham: you now that you've sort of articulated it can you just say it one more time so it's easy for

[0:49:14] Trustee Luckham: lori to capture

[0:49:15] Trustee Patrick: let's see add a first activity um to conduct early engagement with first nations

[0:49:24] Trustee Patrick: and others to gather input on defining the project.

[0:49:34] Trustee Patrick: Something like that.

[0:49:42] Voice 8: On that work project.

[0:49:44] Trustee Patrick: Because the title is Comprehensive OCB-LEV Review.

[0:49:49] Trustee Patrick: So it's the first activity under that.

[0:49:56] Trustee Patrick: Which is

[0:49:56] Voice 2: assuming that you're in favor of there being-

[0:49:59] Voice 2: Correct.

[0:49:59] Trustee Patrick: That would be the next to endorse that,

[0:50:02] Trustee Patrick: but I'm asking that we add a specific activity.

[0:50:05] Trustee Patrick: That early engagement could be boat trips,

[0:50:09] Trustee Patrick: it could be all those things,

[0:50:10] Trustee Patrick: but that's to be defined later.

[0:50:17] Voice 1: So I have that we amend attachment one

[0:50:19] Voice 1: to add a first activity to conduct early engagement

[0:50:23] Voice 1: with others to define the project?

[0:50:25] Trustee Patrick: With First Nations and others,

[0:50:28] Trustee Patrick: specifically say First Nations,

[0:50:37] Trustee Patrick: to provide input to define the project.

[0:50:47] Trustee Patrick: It's messy, but.

[0:50:49] Voice 5: Well, let me just, I'm also conscious of what,

[0:50:53] Voice 5: can i kind of sorry mr chair can i speak yeah

[0:50:56] Trustee Luckham: um sure we'll let lori get that and we'll see what

[0:51:00] Trustee Luckham: that looks like but uh back to you dan well

[0:51:04] Voice 5: i'm conscious of what you said uh chair luckham um

[0:51:11] Voice 5: and i actually think that perhaps the um uh you might be right that but i also think that there

[0:51:25] Voice 5: There might be some things that might be identified.

[0:51:29] Voice 5: I guess what I would do is if we're going to do that is take out the word comprehensive because we don't know yet whether it's going to be comprehensive.

[0:51:36] Voice 5: It might be very targeted and it may not occur at all.

[0:51:42] Voice 5: So what if we renamed the project of a potential OCP LUB review and then we have as an activity what you've just said?

[0:51:54] Voice 5: uh let's talk to all the folks in the region uh particularly the first nations and say

[0:52:00] Voice 5: are there things that you think we should be addressing um like i don't know i'd have to

[0:52:08] Voice 5: go back and look but are we protecting the eelgrass and the bull cap kelp in the way that

[0:52:13] Voice 5: we should be um i don't know maybe we are maybe we're doing all we can do um given we're a land

[0:52:20] Voice 5: use planning organization are we is there coastal douglas further maybe there isn't i i i'm guessing

[0:52:27] Voice 5: there probably is some uh but i don't know but maybe there's other sensitive ecosystems so

[0:52:33] Voice 5: anyway my suggestion would be is that if we're going to take trustee patrick's suggested activity

[0:52:41] Voice 5: that we change the title of the project away from comprehensive and put in the word

[0:52:46] Voice 5: perhaps potential i'd

[0:52:49] Trustee Patrick: be happy to just tack that on to the either to the end after define the

[0:52:54] Trustee Patrick: project and change the title of the project to potential

[0:52:59] Voice 4: ocb land use review then

[0:53:06] Voice 5: then i think

[0:53:07] Voice 5: on that basis i'd probably i'd second your motion if we got a motion that's that's understandable

[0:53:14] Voice 5: understandable does

[0:53:16] Trustee Patrick: that make sense so

[0:53:18] Voice 4: you know the

[0:53:23] Trustee Luckham: presently the wording implies that there

[0:53:27] Trustee Luckham: we've already decided that there's going to be a project and that there's and there's going to be

[0:53:32] Trustee Luckham: potential uh reviews um honestly i want to walk away from that but i'm happy to try and work

[0:53:40] Trustee Luckham: something out that works but i think that it's i think that it should be possible by law amendment

[0:53:46] Trustee Luckham: amendments, and not one or the other, but just possible bylaw amendments, rather than potential,

[0:53:53] Trustee Luckham: because that implies that there will be something. And I don't

[0:53:58] Voice 4: know that that's necessarily the case.

[0:54:08] Trustee Luckham: Not hearing any support for that.

[0:54:09] Voice 5: Well, no, I'm just saying, I just thinking about that,

[0:54:11] Voice 5: I think the word possible and potential sort of mean the same thing in my brain. But there you go.

[0:54:16] Trustee Luckham: They don't to me, but that's and I don't know at all. What does it mean to everybody else?

[0:54:21] Trustee Luckham: if it

[0:54:24] Voice 7: means the same um to the other two trustees i'd be fine with changing it to possible if

[0:54:30] Voice 7: everybody's okay with that um i don't think it really makes a difference and uh if it helps us

[0:54:39] Voice 7: get to some kind of agreement i like i like this approach of um i agree with i like what i'm

[0:54:47] Voice 7: I'm hearing from Chair Luckom and Trustee Rogers about those are my concerns as well.

[0:54:53] Voice 7: I don't know what else we could be doing to preserve and protect the kelp beds and the eelgrass and the different sensitive ecosystems there,

[0:55:08] Voice 7: including coastal Douglas fir and associated ecosystems, those and associated ones.

[0:55:14] Voice 7: ones um i'm not sure that uh whether and how we are preserving and protecting those and whether

[0:55:24] Voice 7: there's something that we could maybe do or advocate for or something uh and so that's partly

[0:55:29] Voice 7: why i think it would be great to talk with the folks that might be closer to it than us and uh

[0:55:34] Voice 7: i like the wording of this um motion so far i almost think that we could just take a amend

[0:55:41] Voice 7: in detachment one and just say that we propose uh to the incoming ltc that they uh conduct a

[0:55:55] Voice 7: first activity so anyway i'm um yeah

[0:56:00] Trustee Luckham: i sort of think that's a good idea sue allen is we don't

[0:56:03] Trustee Luckham: actually have to use the original motion or make the amendment to motion we can just simply make

[0:56:10] Trustee Luckham: our own lotion and i think that's where you were going with that and i was sort of suggesting the

[0:56:15] Trustee Luckham: same thing is that just to recommend to the ltc to work with first nations and others to consider

[0:56:22] Trustee Luckham: possible bylaw amendments um um i just want to note because i was thinking um about the you know

[0:56:33] Trustee Luckham: just to kind of frame this a little bit right in that what are the eel grass and kelp bed potential

[0:56:41] Trustee Luckham: protection that we should be putting in place. Because there's so little or no development,

[0:56:47] Trustee Luckham: shoreline development happening on those islands. There is no development happening on those

[0:56:52] Trustee Luckham: islands that we can regulate or manage or control in any way that is going to improve

[0:57:00] Trustee Luckham: eelgrass beds or kelp. And in fact, kelp grows on rocky substrates out in the ocean,

[0:57:07] Trustee Luckham: uh usually beyond the near shore area um and and i think otters are probably the biggest risk at

[0:57:17] Trustee Luckham: the moment with and fishing industrial fishing um are the biggest risk to kelp but you know kelp is

[0:57:23] Trustee Luckham: actually uh broadcast uh uh uh seeding and they just grow where they the water temperature and

[0:57:31] Trustee Luckham: the nutrients are are suitable and uh you know that's an amazing piece of water out there that

[0:57:40] Trustee Luckham: is probably as fresh and as clean as it gets anywhere because it's in a non-populated area

[0:57:48] Trustee Luckham: and it's got huge flushing but certainly there's mercury and plastic and all these other things but

[0:57:53] Trustee Luckham: can we change that in the island's trust only through advocacy and so it doesn't belong in

[0:57:59] Trustee Luckham: at L.E.B. or OCP, although you might want to put advocacy in an OCP. So I'm just really trying to

[0:58:05] Trustee Luckham: focus on what is it that we can actually do, feet on the ground, that is going to make a difference

[0:58:09] Trustee Luckham: to any of this. And Dan mentioned Coastal Douglas Fir. I think the suggestion was the only island

[0:58:16] Trustee Luckham: that's on is Mystery Island, which is owned, wholly owned by one individual, and they are

[0:58:20] Trustee Luckham: stewards and caretakers there. And anyway, back to you guys. Heather Crowder put her hand up,

[0:58:28] Trustee Luckham: and I'm not sure if yours is still up Sue Ellen.

[0:58:31] Voice 2: I think Sue Ellen put our hand up again. Did you

[0:58:33] Voice 2: want to go first? Oh no go ahead. Okay so so kind of where I feel like this is going is is sort of

[0:58:43] Voice 2: back to the idea that what you want to do is First Nations engagement like you want to you want to do

[0:58:48] Voice 2: relationship building with First Nations however that looks and whatever that results in right.

[0:58:55] Voice 2: Right. It's really about the relationship building. And so as the as the person putting together the project lists,

[0:59:04] Voice 2: you know, I've seen this on a number of lists where it's sort of this general category of relationship building,

[0:59:10] Voice 2: which from a project management standpoint is not a project. Right. Because there's no there's no specific event.

[0:59:18] Voice 2: A project has a deliverable, and a deliverable is a thing, a process, or an event.

[0:59:27] Voice 2: And relationship building isn't any of those things.

[0:59:30] Voice 2: It's a principle or an approach.

[0:59:33] Voice 2: And so part of my attempt here with the staff report, and part of the reason that I'm recommending

[0:59:41] Voice 2: understanding categorization of projects is is so that we have some sort of sense from the beginning of putting something on the project list of what the deliverable might be.

[0:59:54] Voice 2: and so yeah that this is what I'm struggling with a little bit

[1:00:00] Voice 2: is that um i i hear that you want to recommend to the new ltc that they focus on an outreach to

[1:00:09] Voice 2: first nations but that isn't a project to put on a project list we need we need something more

[1:00:13] Voice 2: specific than that and i'll say that part of what i've been struggling with about this is that the

[1:00:22] Voice 2: skills involved in relationship building are different than the skills involved in updating

[1:00:28] Voice 2: an OCP. And the staff that you have have a certain skill set. So if you go into a project

[1:00:37] Voice 2: with just this idea that you want to do, you want to do some outreach to the First Nations,

[1:00:42] Voice 2: and maybe you want to have some meetings with them. We really need to know what that all is

[1:00:48] Voice 2: about in order for us to know how to resource that from a staff perspective. You know, who,

[1:00:54] Voice 2: Who, which staff do you want?

[1:00:55] Voice 2: Do you need a consultant?

[1:00:57] Voice 2: Do you need budget for that?

[1:00:59] Voice 2: Those are all the questions that I have, so.

[1:01:05] Trustee Luckham: So, you know, this may be a bit bold and radical for you.

[1:01:09] Trustee Luckham: I don't know, but you know what?

[1:01:13] Trustee Luckham: Let's invite the new council to dinner

[1:01:18] Trustee Luckham: and let's invite the biosphere chair.

[1:01:21] Trustee Luckham: Let's invite the regional director and ourselves

[1:01:24] Trustee Luckham: ourselves and talk about a projects list and they can come or not and if it doesn't happen

[1:01:35] Trustee Luckham: then I would say there is no necessity at this time to talk about a projects list and in fact

[1:01:42] Trustee Luckham: we could invite the single resident of the trust area to that dinner as well and I think that's

[1:01:50] Trustee Luckham: that's as bold as it can get to get their attention you know we're organizing a dinner

[1:01:56] Trustee Luckham: wherever it happens to be um and we're hosting it and we would we want you to join us please

[1:02:03] Trustee Luckham: and let's see where it goes and that i would recommend that to the incoming ltc to make bold

[1:02:09] Trustee Luckham: steps to engage the nanaimo first nation and and maybe the chair just simply needs to make that

[1:02:18] Trustee Luckham: phone call whoever that person is um because i feel guilty about constantly asking staff to do

[1:02:26] Trustee Luckham: that work when it's a political job and so that's what i think bold invite them for dinner let's go

[1:02:36] Trustee Luckham: from there uh

[1:02:42] Voice 4: sue allen um

[1:02:43] Voice 7: thank you chair um first i'm going to go to the question you asked

[1:02:49] Voice 7: uh chair luckham which was how can we what could we do to protect the marine area anyway

[1:02:56] Voice 7: while we're doing i mentioned the word advocacy we we could for example maybe there's going to be

[1:03:03] Voice 7: a kelp growing factory to collect carbon and create um i don't know not factory but i mean

[1:03:11] Voice 7: like a farm and uh or uh other kinds of um uh marine food things like you see around denman

[1:03:22] Voice 7: or other places i don't know but i think we can um work with others cooperate with others

[1:03:28] Voice 7: is is one of the things we do and advocacy and uh i like this idea though that you're suggesting

[1:03:36] Voice 7: interesting um uh and rather than a dinner maybe we could try suggest another boat tour because i

[1:03:44] Voice 7: think that would be excellent for everybody um but maybe the practicalities and the uh risks are

[1:03:52] Voice 7: are too much to want to do that and then the final thing i wanted to say is um um maybe it's worth

[1:04:01] Voice 7: with having a project to get onto the list

[1:04:05] Voice 7: because it might be another 10 years

[1:04:06] Voice 7: before this OCP LUB review could get up

[1:04:13] Voice 7: into the regional planning teams,

[1:04:17] Voice 7: up on the list.

[1:04:20] Voice 7: And that would be 20 years after the 2013 one,

[1:04:23] Voice 7: lots of time.

[1:04:24] Voice 7: So that's my input there.

[1:04:29] Trustee Luckham: Okay, are we any closer to a motion on this business item

[1:04:32] Trustee Luckham: him or do we need to do anything and just let the next ltc figure it out dan rogers um

[1:04:40] Voice 5: i don't know

[1:04:43] Voice 5: if trustee patrick still wants to move her motion but if she would i'd be comfortable with putting

[1:04:47] Voice 5: the word possible in for the word potential um and and uh and move it that way and well i entirely

[1:04:57] Voice 5: entirely agree with um you mr chair about i don't know inviting people over there creating

[1:05:05] Voice 5: relationships i don't that's not a project um that's a that's a uh and i think what we're

[1:05:14] Voice 5: bumping up against a little bit is and this is absolutely no disrespect because my brain works

[1:05:20] Voice 5: exactly the same uh but it's the planner brain you have to have something specific that you're

[1:05:25] Voice 5: aiming towards um and i think this is something and i think there are lots of activities i'd like

[1:05:32] Voice 5: to have something on the projects list that looks like um a uh a an activity that we could or the

[1:05:43] Voice 5: because the only other thing i've been thinking about as i think about this is we could we could

[1:05:47] Voice 5: put the boat tour back on as a as a project i mean although it's more like an activity but

[1:05:54] Voice 5: it's at least an event um so you could do that as as an alternative as a starting place and then

[1:06:01] Voice 5: come back and consider this but i'm quite i'm prepared to second this motion if if trustee

[1:06:07] Voice 5: patrick still wants to make it if the word potential is replaced if possible and

[1:06:11] Trustee Luckham: i'll ask her

[1:06:12] Trustee Luckham: so before we jump to that um it it occurs to me that you know i understand what you're saying

[1:06:23] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, we have to have projects. Well, I guess it begs the question about what the projects are and do we really need any projects. And so, to me, narrowing the focus here in terms of this amendment is where it goes to early engagement with First Nations and others to provide input to possible projects in the local trust area would be as simple as it needs to be.

[1:06:51] Trustee Luckham: um and and and indeed that dinner invite is to talk about projects to determine whether or not

[1:06:59] Trustee Luckham: there's a need for any projects to do something and um and the trouble of course is is that there's

[1:07:07] Trustee Luckham: land use planning projects and there's other projects but obviously we're looking for land

[1:07:11] Trustee Luckham: use planning projects but i would think rather than saying ocpa led review that um uh it might

[1:07:20] Trustee Luckham: just simply be to define possible projects

[1:07:28] Trustee Luckham: that we can work together on.

[1:07:31] Trustee Luckham: But obviously that's going beyond

[1:07:33] Trustee Luckham: what the intent here is, Trustee Patrick.

[1:07:36] Trustee Luckham: And I want to respect your work here

[1:07:39] Trustee Luckham: and we haven't seconded it yet, so it's just a discussion.

[1:07:42] Trustee Luckham: But Trustee, let's go back to Trustee Patrick

[1:07:44] Trustee Luckham: and see after this conversation what you're thinking.

[1:07:48] Trustee Luckham: And Dan, is your hand up?

[1:07:49] Trustee Luckham: um

[1:07:51] Trustee Patrick: i'm content with proceeding i'm happy to change it to possible uh that to me the two

[1:07:56] Trustee Patrick: words are um identical but that possible is fine um i'm okay with leaving it the way it is as being

[1:08:03] Trustee Patrick: a possible ocp review i think that does give some direction to staff as where this is potentially

[1:08:08] Trustee Patrick: going and then if the the next local trust committee um will it'll be up to them to decide

[1:08:17] Trustee Patrick: what you know what specific activities they want to do to you know to to do this and if you are

[1:08:25] Trustee Patrick: engaging first nations openly meaningfully and well you know the direction could end up being

[1:08:31] Trustee Patrick: some somewhere else and that would be the next direction that would begin this you know the

[1:08:35] Trustee Patrick: project would be you know either redirected or changed if if you know based on what they hear

[1:08:41] Trustee Patrick: here. So I think we're plenty covered. So yes, I'll make this motion as it's written

[1:08:48] Trustee Patrick: up here right now.

[1:08:51] Trustee Luckham: So do I have a seconder for the motion? Dan Rogers. Any further discussion on the motion?

[1:08:58] Trustee Luckham: All right. Not seeing any hands, I'll call for the vote. All those in favor? And electronic

[1:09:03] Trustee Luckham: or digital hands would be fine. And Dan, your hand is up. So that looks like that carries

[1:09:09] Trustee Luckham: unanimously excellent okay is there any further work we need to do on this or do we want to now

[1:09:17] Trustee Luckham: pat we want to now pass that motion that endorses this from the ltc does somebody want to make that

[1:09:24] Trustee Luckham: motion um

[1:09:26] Voice 5: i'll move that the project

[1:09:30] Trustee Patrick: it's on page nine oh

[1:09:32] Voice 5: oh is there actually a motion written

[1:09:35] Voice 5: no there

[1:09:35] Trustee Luckham: is a motion i can pull it up

[1:09:37] Voice 5: sorry there

[1:09:41] Voice 2: it is on the screen uh

[1:09:42] Voice 5: i i move that the executive

[1:09:44] Voice 5: committee acting as local trust uh committee balloonists when chelsea islands endorse

[1:09:50] Voice 5: the top priorities and project list is presented on june 29 2022 as amended for further

[1:10:00] Voice 5: consideration by the incoming local trust committee so

[1:10:05] Trustee Luckham: do i have a seconder i'm gonna

[1:10:08] Trustee Luckham: get my screen back up seconded by uh trustee fast thank you um any further discussion all

[1:10:17] Trustee Luckham: those in favor hands up digital or otherwise and looks to me like that carries

[1:10:24] Voice 4: unanimously also

[1:10:25] Voice 4: though okay anything further on this topic all

[1:10:35] Trustee Luckham: right thank you for that conversation that was

[1:10:37] Trustee Luckham: worthwhile we chewed up all of our uh all of our time that we had dan when you said oh we usually

[1:10:43] Trustee Luckham: have a surplus of time well now we're into a deficit of time so that's okay it was a good

[1:10:47] Trustee Luckham: conversation thank you very much it's a great conversation and hopefully that heather you found

[1:10:52] Trustee Luckham: that more helpful than a hindrance so um thank you for your work you you i i think i've told you i

[1:10:59] Trustee Luckham: I totally appreciate the work that you do

[1:11:01] Trustee Luckham: for the Islands Trust and keep doing it.

[1:11:03] Trustee Luckham: And that's great.

[1:11:06] Trustee Luckham: So I'm gonna move on through the agenda here.

[1:11:11] Trustee Luckham: Local trustee reports sort of in context

[1:11:15] Trustee Luckham: of the Bolinas-Wren-Chelsea Islands.

[1:11:16] Trustee Luckham: Is there anything that you'd like to report, anybody?

[1:11:20] Trustee Luckham: No.

[1:11:21] Trustee Luckham: And the chair's report,

[1:11:23] Trustee Luckham: certainly the only thing I can say is policy statements

[1:11:26] Trustee Luckham: have been the policy statement was amended the draft was amended at the last council

[1:11:31] Trustee Luckham: and that work will continue governance review work continues a committee has been struck

[1:11:38] Trustee Luckham: and they will be meeting a couple times over the summer making recommendations to an incoming

[1:11:42] Trustee Luckham: council I suspect so I don't think I have anything else to add there at the moment

[1:11:49] Trustee Luckham: elections are of course coming up in October and encourage folks to run for trustees

[1:11:55] Trustee Luckham: in areas that you can,

[1:11:59] Trustee Luckham: which is one of the anomalies

[1:12:00] Trustee Luckham: of the Bolinas-Winchelsea Island area.

[1:12:03] Trustee Luckham: So Trust Conservancy Report, May the 24th, 2022.

[1:12:08] Trustee Luckham: Sue Ellen Fast is our representative

[1:12:10] Trustee Luckham: on that on Trust Conservancy.

[1:12:12] Trustee Luckham: Do you want to add anything

[1:12:14] Trustee Luckham: to what's included in the report there,

[1:12:16] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Fast?

[1:12:18] Voice 7: No, I don't have an update.

[1:12:20] Voice 7: We've got a meeting coming up fairly soon.

[1:12:22] Voice 7: That report is pretty up to date.

[1:12:24] Voice 7: right

[1:12:25] Trustee Luckham: and that's a joint meeting is coming up well

[1:12:28] Voice 7: the islands trust conservancy meets in the

[1:12:30] Voice 7: morning and then the joint meeting happens in the afternoon and

[1:12:34] Trustee Luckham: what was the date of that again

[1:12:35] Trustee Luckham: i believe

[1:12:36] Voice 7: it's 13th of july uh yes okay

[1:12:43] Trustee Luckham: and um okay so that would be in person as well so

[1:12:48] Trustee Luckham: Oh, there we go.

[1:12:49] Trustee Luckham: Regional District of NIMO Area E Director

[1:12:53] Trustee Luckham: unable to attend this meeting.

[1:12:56] Trustee Luckham: He sent his regrets and I don't believe

[1:13:00] Trustee Luckham: we have a report from him.

[1:13:01] Trustee Luckham: So I wanna thank the director for being out there.

[1:13:06] Trustee Luckham: Sononas, the First Nation representative report,

[1:13:10] Trustee Luckham: a verbal report.

[1:13:11] Trustee Luckham: Is there something here today, Heather?

[1:13:12] Trustee Luckham: No, don't believe so.

[1:13:14] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so thank you.

[1:13:15] Trustee Luckham: and certainly we continue to be very interested in this not a last First Nation as indicated by

[1:13:24] Trustee Luckham: the conversation earlier no applications I'm just going to go through to the top priorities report

[1:13:30] Trustee Luckham: and the projects list report page 18 and page 19 we've amended the top priorities there

[1:13:37] Trustee Luckham: just now I don't believe there's any further discussion there nope okay so our next meeting

[1:13:44] Trustee Luckham: yet to be determined and that'll be probably be determined in the next meeting schedule for the

[1:13:50] Trustee Luckham: coming term right so is there any further business today well i just want to oh okay go ahead dan

[1:13:58] Voice 5: sorry and this actually doesn't have to do with this bolinas win chelsea section but while i have

[1:14:04] Voice 5: you on a zoom call i wanted to let you know that i'd be getting notifications about a uh a sunken

[1:14:11] Voice 5: tug down uh it's south of salt spring island it's sort of down the inlet there and uh there's lots

[1:14:18] Voice 5: of activity around that so just so you know okay i've

[1:14:22] Voice 5: got you both here i'll send you maybe the

[1:14:24] Voice 5: copy it's not in our local trust area so but it is around so

[1:14:31] Voice 4: indeed and um yeah

[1:14:37] Trustee Luckham: there's also i'll

[1:14:37] Trustee Luckham: just let you know um that there's some activity going on um with fisheries and oceans with respect

[1:14:44] Trustee Luckham: to enforcement on whale watching that I'm aware of

[1:14:47] Trustee Luckham: because some of the service providers there

[1:14:51] Trustee Luckham: are offending the distance regulations

[1:14:58] Trustee Luckham: that are in place, which is 400 meters.

[1:15:01] Trustee Luckham: It's quite a long distance.

[1:15:02] Trustee Luckham: And some of the vessels have been reported

[1:15:05] Trustee Luckham: as being on top of the whales and traveling with them.

[1:15:08] Trustee Luckham: So that's interesting to know as well.

[1:15:10] Trustee Luckham: So thanks, Dan. Thank you, Executive Committee. I want to thank you for your work as little as it might be on this LTC, because this is a really spectacular place. And I'm sorry that we didn't get a boat trip together to go and appreciate that.

[1:15:26] Trustee Luckham: that. And although a boat trip is a great idea, I was going to say that earlier, the logistics

[1:15:32] Trustee Luckham: have just been too difficult. And we want to encourage elders to join us as well. And sometimes

[1:15:40] Trustee Luckham: that is a limitation. We experienced that with our boat trip with Penelope and Liaxon. It's just

[1:15:48] Trustee Luckham: not something that everybody wants to do when you're getting on. Me either. Anyway, so thank

[1:15:54] Trustee Luckham: you everybody uh enjoy the rest of your day so i'll call for adjournment all those in favor

[1:15:59] Trustee Luckham: none opposed that carries enjoy the rest of your day and we'll see you all soon

[1:16:04] Trustee Luckham: all right thanks heather thanks to the staff uh will and lori for your work