Denman Island Local Trust Committee special meeting, July 27, 2022

[0:00:00] Chair Fast (probable): I see that we're live streaming now and welcome everybody to the special meeting, electronic special meeting of the Denman Island Local Trust Committee, where we're going to have a presentation regarding the Denman Island Farming Regulations Review Project.

[0:00:14] Chair Fast (probable): So, I want to begin by acknowledging that we're fortunate to be able to gather today because of an electronic meeting from locations across the traditional territories of the Coast Salish people.

[0:00:25] Chair Fast (probable): people, and in specific for Denman, specifically the unceded traditional territory, the Comox.

[0:00:32] Chair Fast (probable): And I would like to just introduce people here. I'm Sue Ellen Fast, elected on Bowen Island,

[0:00:39] Chair Fast (probable): and I'm a vice chair of the Islands Trust, so I'm chair of the Denman Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:00:45] Chair Fast (probable): Excuse me, and I'm joined today by Denman Island trustees, Trustee Laura Bershaken,

[0:00:51] Chair Fast (probable): and trustee david critchley down there there he is and um i'm together we make up the denman

[0:01:00] Chair Fast (probable): island local trust committee the elected uh trust committee and this meeting is being conducted

[0:01:06] Chair Fast (probable): electronically it's being recorded and it's also being live streamed so you might be watching that

[0:01:10] Chair Fast (probable): way when we get to the question and answer period of the meeting i sure hope we have some people

[0:01:14] Chair Fast (probable): with us and uh from the public although maybe everybody's out farming and um but when we get

[0:01:22] Chair Fast (probable): to that part if you'd like to raise your digital hand you can do this by clicking the hand icon the

[0:01:27] Chair Fast (probable): little yellow hand at the bottom of the screen or if you're joining by phone which i don't see

[0:01:32] Chair Fast (probable): anybody doing that so i'll mention that again later so um we appreciate everybody's understanding

[0:01:37] Chair Fast (probable): and assistance electronic meetings formats can have technical challenges but looks okay so far

[0:01:42] Chair Fast (probable): so wish us luck for those who can't attend today the recording is going to be available

[0:01:47] Chair Fast (probable): available up in a few days so we've got staff members joining us today uh we're let me see the

[0:01:54] Chair Fast (probable): pictures vicky bachman is our minute taker taking the professional minutes of the decisions of the

[0:01:58] Chair Fast (probable): uh and the happenings at this formal meeting and uh we've got uh marlis mccarger is our island

[0:02:05] Chair Fast (probable): planner leading this project i'm marlis and we've got uh also behind the scenes sonja zupanet many

[0:02:11] Chair Fast (probable): people know as uh there she is she's running the electronic meeting for us today thank you for

[0:02:16] Chair Fast (probable): for taking the time to do that, Sonia.

[0:02:18] Chair Fast (probable): And also with us today, we've got Ione Smith

[0:02:21] Chair Fast (probable): and she's from Upland Agricultural Consulting.

[0:02:25] Chair Fast (probable): She's been out on the island talking to people

[0:02:27] Chair Fast (probable): and gathering the input.

[0:02:28] Chair Fast (probable): And Ione will give the presentation this afternoon.

[0:02:31] Chair Fast (probable): So this meeting is an official forum

[0:02:33] Chair Fast (probable): of the local trust committee to make decisions

[0:02:36] Chair Fast (probable): about land use planning matters

[0:02:38] Chair Fast (probable): and discuss relevant business.

[0:02:40] Chair Fast (probable): And I also wanna mention it's a place of employment

[0:02:43] Chair Fast (probable): and staff and consultants and all of us

[0:02:46] Chair Fast (probable): have the right to a safe and respectful workplace and setting for our participatory democracy.

[0:02:55] Chair Fast (probable): And I just want to mention, we've got an object of the Islands Trust is preserving and protecting.

[0:03:01] Chair Fast (probable): And that's what we'll be thinking about today in our decisions. And we've got a guest with us today,

[0:03:07] Chair Fast (probable): brought a killdeer, got nature in the room with us today. And anyway, thank you for helping us

[0:03:13] Chair Fast (probable): hold a good meeting and if you're not here in person I hope you uh get a lot out of the meeting

[0:03:18] Chair Fast (probable): later and meanwhile we're going to go ahead with the recorded part the presentation and the recording

[0:03:24] Chair Fast (probable): uh so um I would like to got an agenda in front of us I'd like to call uh the meeting to order

[0:03:33] Chair Fast (probable): and um so some of these agenda items may switch around a little bit and the timing may not be

[0:03:40] Chair Fast (probable): be perfect but we're planning to go until 4 30 we've got that amount of time uh booked for this

[0:03:44] Chair Fast (probable): project uh for this meeting this afternoon um so i would like to add something to the agenda

[0:03:51] Chair Fast (probable): i know there's an addition and uh david do you want to tell us i thought we could put it under

[0:03:57] Chair Fast (probable): new business go ahead david yes

[0:04:01] Trustee Critchley (probable): thank you so this is a thing that has recently arose

[0:04:04] Trustee Critchley (probable): rose um you might call it shellfish aquaculture committee it's a committee for produced by

[0:04:13] Trustee Critchley (probable): department of fisheries notions okay but

[0:04:17] Trustee Critchley (probable): we have been invited to join very

[0:04:21] Chair Fast (probable): good okay let's add that

[0:04:22] Chair Fast (probable): at number four under new business um and uh dfo shellfish um advisory committee something like

[0:04:32] Chair Fast (probable): like that and then we'll move number five can become adjournment so we'll just keep that till

[0:04:36] Chair Fast (probable): the end and uh so that we don't keep everybody um hovering here and with that addition is there

[0:04:43] Chair Fast (probable): anything else people would like to add go ahead trustee beshaken can't hear you you can't hear

[0:04:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): me can you hear me now no i can okay i just need to lean forward and not lounge around in my chair

[0:04:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um uh i'm curious and i know i i could have caught this when way back when we approved the agenda for

[0:05:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): this and I'm sorry I didn't. Why we don't have any town hall or opportunity for public input

[0:05:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): on the agenda? I actually thought we talked when we were planning this meeting and said that we

[0:05:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): thought it would be a good idea. So is there a specific reason it's

[0:05:19] Chair Fast (probable): not there? I think because

[0:05:20] Chair Fast (probable): it's a special meeting, it's not a regular meeting and because we have that big question and answer

[0:05:25] Chair Fast (probable): session after the presentation. So we were hoping people would join us for that. Is that what you

[0:05:31] Chair Fast (probable): uh think to clark marvis uh

[0:05:35] Planner McCargar (probable): we just um we didn't want to create a town hall as sort of a general

[0:05:39] Planner McCargar (probable): catch-all for input we wanted to keep it specific to this project just because that's what

[0:05:45] Planner McCargar (probable): uh the special meetings about so we did include the question and answer session and um members

[0:05:52] Planner McCargar (probable): of the public are welcome

[0:05:53] Voice 9: to to join but we just didn't call it a town hall okay yeah

[0:06:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): if i could

[0:06:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just like I'm hearing a lot on Denman about people being frustrated and some of it is inevitable

[0:06:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): from the COVID situation of not feeling that there's much interface between the community and

[0:06:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and the local trust committee and and I you know I'd like to see us sort of move in the opposite

[0:06:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): direction and actually try to go a little further than usual to create those opportunities and

[0:06:26] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think if I was a member of the public I'd just see question and answer I wouldn't know

[0:06:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it was for the public but also people there are people who are really interested in this review

[0:06:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and they they might want to provide comment and the thing is when we do question and answer people

[0:06:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): are used to knowing they'll be closed down as would be correct in question answer if they're

[0:06:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): giving a comment so you know i don't i mean it's too late now but i just you know i'll keep an eye

[0:06:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): on it in future and i would just would like to ask all of us to keep in mind that um this you know we

[0:06:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): we call these meetings participatory democracy and, and, um, but the participatory part is very,

[0:07:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it's very truncated and, um, you know, it, it feeds into a lot of frustration, which then makes

[0:07:12] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it harder to work with the community and harder to get good input from the community. Cause they're

[0:07:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): kind of focused on their frustration instead of the meat of what we're making decisions about.

[0:07:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So, um, at this point, um, you know, I don't think we even have anyone here and, um,

[0:07:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): we can continue but in future could i'm just saying could we all keep that in mind yeah

[0:07:34] Chair Fast (probable): i've

[0:07:35] Chair Fast (probable): made a note for the next meeting and uh um adding a town hall to the special meeting i'll note we

[0:07:41] Chair Fast (probable): were on denman island for a uh in-person meeting a week ago and um we didn't have speakers at the

[0:07:48] Chair Fast (probable): town hall then trustee critchley yeah

[0:07:52] Trustee Critchley (probable): thank you uh trustee beshaken uh speaks to a topic that is

[0:07:57] Trustee Critchley (probable): is close to my heart too.

[0:07:58] Trustee Critchley (probable): I'm concerned that we are not having enough public input,

[0:08:03] Trustee Critchley (probable): particularly early on this project,

[0:08:05] Trustee Critchley (probable): which I see as being extremely important

[0:08:08] Trustee Critchley (probable): and could affect the island in many ways, quite deeply.

[0:08:14] Trustee Critchley (probable): So I'm concerned that we haven't had,

[0:08:17] Trustee Critchley (probable): yes, I know we had 160 or 125, whatever it was,

[0:08:22] Trustee Critchley (probable): survey responses, which sounds pretty good,

[0:08:25] Trustee Critchley (probable): but it's still only a small fraction of our population um and i think when it comes to

[0:08:31] Trustee Critchley (probable): thinking about next steps uh we've got to think very carefully about about that and i'll be

[0:08:36] Trustee Critchley (probable): thinking that we should be having uh an in-person uh yes uh public information meeting uh rather

[0:08:47] Trustee Critchley (probable): than just jamming everything together and then you know voting voting on a a new set of bylaws

[0:08:55] Trustee Critchley (probable): i believe

[0:08:56] Chair Fast (probable): that's where i

[0:08:56] Trustee Critchley (probable): see that amend thank

[0:09:00] Chair Fast (probable): you and when we get to that part of the agenda

[0:09:02] Chair Fast (probable): i think that recommendation number six is to schedule a community information meeting

[0:09:08] Chair Fast (probable): uh and public hearing uh but i think um the notice that went out um does say call in users press nine

[0:09:17] Chair Fast (probable): and to raise your hand and six to unmute i think it's it's pretty clear that it's members of the

[0:09:22] Chair Fast (probable): public who do not have internet access may you know so uh hopefully if the notice was looked at

[0:09:29] Chair Fast (probable): that um would be clearer and um but i take your point and i've got that um about next time and uh

[0:09:38] Chair Fast (probable): to be clear that public questions are uh welcome on the agenda on agenda okay um that being said

[0:09:49] Chair Fast (probable): can we approve the agenda with that one addition or are there any other I'm seeing nodding yes

[0:09:57] Chair Fast (probable): okay you happy with that David okay so by consent then all three of us agree that we'll approve the

[0:10:04] Chair Fast (probable): agenda as amended with the addition of the new business item and then thank you for your input

[0:10:11] Chair Fast (probable): and let's get into the Denman Island Farming Regulation Review Project and I'm going to turn

[0:10:18] Chair Fast (probable): turn it over here to our consultant, Ione Smith, Upland Consulting Limited.

[0:10:23] Voice 2: Please go ahead, Ione.

[0:10:24] Voice 2: Thank you very much, Chair Fass. Thanks, everybody, for having me today. I'm going to share my screen

[0:10:29] Voice 2: because I did prepare a presentation. Let me know if you can see it. I'll just put it into

[0:10:35] Voice 2: presenter mode. Is that okay? Can you see that all right? Okay, great. So, as was mentioned,

[0:10:45] Voice 2: We did do quite an extensive amount of engagement previous to the stage, so we are happy to be presenting you our key summary engagement and key directions from what we heard from the community.

[0:10:58] Voice 2: Just a reminder as to what the objectives were.

[0:11:01] Voice 2: The project hopes to enhance and preserve farming activities on the island through updates to the official community plan policies and the land use bylaw regulations.

[0:11:10] Voice 2: And there was a specific focus on three recommendations that came out of the 2011 Dem and Farm Plan.

[0:11:17] Voice 2: Number 11, number 13, and number 14.

[0:11:20] Voice 2: So number 11 was to look at a review for farmworker housing and agritourism accommodation.

[0:11:25] Voice 2: Number 13 was to implement zoning updates through the land use bylaw.

[0:11:29] Voice 2: And number 14 was to amend the official community plan.

[0:11:33] Voice 2: In terms of specific engagement activities, we made presentations to the APC and to yourselves, the LTC,

[0:11:40] Voice 2: The presentations to the APC also included the Growers Association.

[0:11:45] Voice 2: There was a community mail out. We undertook several interviews, a total of eight, most of which were farmers.

[0:11:52] Voice 2: There were over 160 responses to the questionnaire.

[0:11:56] Voice 2: And in April, we came in person for a community information meeting and we had seven individuals attend on that event.

[0:12:05] Voice 2: As I mentioned, the APC meetings also included the Growers and Producers Association.

[0:12:10] Voice 2: we did two of those meetings. We extended interview invitations to seven farmers and

[0:12:17] Voice 2: four accepted, so the remaining interviews were for non-farmers. And over 40% of those who

[0:12:23] Voice 2: responded to the questionnaire indicated that they live in the Agricultural Land Reserve. So

[0:12:28] Voice 2: we did get a fair number of people from the ALR who were responding to the engagement.

[0:12:34] Voice 2: I do want to specifically focus on a few key themes that centered upon the survey and the

[0:12:43] Voice 2: engagement that we did. And the first one is the definitions. So we looked first at the definition

[0:12:49] Voice 2: of agriculture and whether or not people were happy with the status quo or if they would like

[0:12:54] Voice 2: to see it changed. And overwhelmingly, we got feedback that a shorter definition as compared

[0:13:00] Voice 2: compared to the status quo would be preferable.

[0:13:04] Voice 2: And the reasoning, the rationale behind that

[0:13:06] Voice 2: was that it would less likely to need to be updated

[0:13:08] Voice 2: as provincial policies change.

[0:13:10] Voice 2: And so the recommendation there is to change the definition

[0:13:13] Voice 2: by shortening it and aligning it

[0:13:16] Voice 2: so that it's more in line with that of Hornby Island.

[0:13:19] Voice 2: And so the definition would be that agriculture

[0:13:21] Voice 2: means the use of land, buildings, or structures

[0:13:24] Voice 2: for the growing, rearing, harvesting, processing,

[0:13:27] Voice 2: marketing, or production of agricultural plants,

[0:13:29] Voice 2: crops, or livestock. So that was one of our first key findings there. We also looked at the

[0:13:36] Voice 2: definition of intensive agriculture. And in our engagement with stakeholders, we found that this

[0:13:42] Voice 2: one word, the confinement piece, really stuck out to people. And we think that that led to sometimes

[0:13:48] Voice 2: some misinformation or lack of clarity around what the intent is for defining intensive agriculture.

[0:13:55] Voice 2: agriculture because currently it's defined as using structures, buildings or land to confine

[0:14:00] Voice 2: animals. And so we looked at somehow being able to do away with the term of intensive agriculture

[0:14:06] Voice 2: because really it's not in line with the culture of farming on Denman Island or really throughout

[0:14:12] Voice 2: the Islands Trust. So we looked at what confinement actually means. And when we went into the

[0:14:19] Voice 2: Provincial Agricultural Environmental Management Code of Practice, we found the definition is

[0:14:23] Voice 2: is really as simple as having a covered outdoor area other than a grazing area or a seasonal

[0:14:29] Voice 2: feeding area or a temporary holding area. So this could be interpreted as any barn or a pigsty or a

[0:14:35] Voice 2: chicken coop, for example. But the term itself, confinement, was what really struck people. And

[0:14:40] Voice 2: I think the term intensive as well is what really struck people. Now, from a jurisdictional

[0:14:44] Voice 2: perspective, local governments are not able to restrict intensive farming within the ALR,

[0:14:49] Voice 2: but they are able to restrict intensive farming outside of the ALR. Throughout our engagement,

[0:14:57] Voice 2: we found that support for including intensive agriculture and definitions was mixed. Many

[0:15:02] Voice 2: people would prefer not to define it at all. Others would like to see a more tailored approach

[0:15:06] Voice 2: where a certain number of stocking density of animals is allowed in certain areas. So for

[0:15:13] Voice 2: example, smaller properties could only have a certain number of animals, etc. And some local

[0:15:18] Voice 2: governments do that. Salt Spring Island certainly does do that. But most residents in general felt

[0:15:25] Voice 2: like they weren't really terribly concerned that feedlots or high intensity farming would ever come

[0:15:29] Voice 2: to them in any way. And so it seems sort of outside of the realm of what people needed to

[0:15:34] Voice 2: be worried about at the moment. So the other thing to consider is that we looked at, since you're not

[0:15:41] Voice 2: allowed to restrict intensive agriculture in the ALR, we started to look at more how that could be

[0:15:46] Voice 2: restricted outside of the ALR, specifically in R1 and R2 zones. That was within the scope of this

[0:15:52] Voice 2: project. And a lot of people did like to see some restrictions put in place on intensive farming

[0:15:58] Voice 2: in the residential zones. Most would prefer, in fact, some restrictions on the size of the lot

[0:16:04] Voice 2: that could have intensive farming or the total number per parcels. And nearly 40% would still

[0:16:10] Voice 2: like to see intensive agriculture prohibited in residential areas throughout R1 and R2 zones.

[0:16:16] Voice 2: So this indicated to us that there is some interest in putting some parameters around

[0:16:21] Voice 2: what could and couldn't be allowed within those R1 and R2 zones. Just looking at the gray and

[0:16:27] Voice 2: the yellow, so looking at those who were interested in stocking density restrictions in R1 and R2,

[0:16:34] Voice 2: there was a fair proportion, so about a quarter of respondents who were interested in that,

[0:16:39] Voice 2: from a purely logistical operational perspective it's a very difficult thing to do to enforce that

[0:16:45] Voice 2: and so that was something that we did keep in mind when we were putting together the recommendations

[0:16:51] Voice 2: so a couple of options that we looked at was to allow a maximum number so again a stocking density

[0:16:59] Voice 2: and so allowing them on all our one and our two properties to a certain extent but again it's

[0:17:04] Voice 2: difficult to enforce those animal numbers. The other option we looked at is starting to

[0:17:10] Voice 2: look at permitting these uses only on areas that are greater than five acres, only on

[0:17:16] Voice 2: lots that are greater than five acres. The pros there is that it is easier to regulate and enforce,

[0:17:23] Voice 2: but the cons is that there is some R1 and R2 properties that would be affected that are

[0:17:28] Voice 2: smaller than two hectares. So that's to consider. However, most of the R2 sites, sorry, lots are

[0:17:36] Voice 2: greater than two hectares and only 10% of R1 lots are greater than two hectares. So it would mostly

[0:17:42] Voice 2: be affecting the R1 lots. There would be a way to potentially grandfather in existing operations

[0:17:48] Voice 2: if need be. So the overall directions here when considering intensive agriculture is to maintain

[0:17:56] Voice 2: To maintain the current definition of intensive agriculture, it does align with the provincial definitions, and it does actually provide quite a lot of security for folks who are in the ELR who may want to use barns, chicken coops, pigsty, etc.

[0:18:11] Voice 2: But to consider restricting intensive agriculture in the residential areas, particularly on properties that are two properties that are larger than two hectares or five acres in size, and consider allowing a grandfathering and approach of existing structures.

[0:18:25] Voice 2: structures. In terms of implications, so there were no clear implications to changes to the OCP

[0:18:33] Voice 2: that would be required, but for the land use bylaw, there would need to be revisions to some

[0:18:38] Voice 2: of the definitions, particularly of agriculture, removing the definition of a feedlot because it

[0:18:43] Voice 2: would no longer be necessary, and updating the accessory uses for R1 and R2. I'll move on to

[0:18:52] Voice 2: the next theme. Do we want to hold questions to the end, or did you want to ask questions?

[0:18:58] Voice 2: yes we've got questions at the end so please continue okay great so in terms of secondary

[0:19:04] Voice 2: dwellings which was the second theme the just as a reminder the land commission has recently

[0:19:09] Voice 2: changed regulations to allow a small secondary dwelling for every property in the ALR there are

[0:19:14] Voice 2: certain criteria and conditions so for example you can't already have a secondary dwelling

[0:19:18] Voice 2: it has to be 90 meters squared or smaller unless your property is over 40 hectares but there are

[0:19:26] Voice 2: are no restrictions on who can live there and local governments like Islands Trust can place

[0:19:30] Voice 2: additional criteria on those second dwellings. So when we canvassed residents on Denman Island

[0:19:38] Voice 2: most wanted to see this being allowed. There was only a small amount so that's the blue

[0:19:43] Voice 2: in the pie chart there who didn't want secondary dwellings to be permitted at all. The orange so

[0:19:49] Voice 2: nearly half wanted to see in alignment with ALC rules and regulations so in other words no

[0:19:54] Voice 2: additional restrictions. A small amount thought that they should require a temporary use permit

[0:20:00] Voice 2: and then about 40 I think it was 43 percent wanted to see subject to additional restrictions. The

[0:20:08] Voice 2: additional restrictions that most people wanted to see was to ensure that adequate water and septic

[0:20:14] Voice 2: facilities or equivalent septic facilities were available on the property to accommodate the

[0:20:19] Voice 2: secondary dwelling and so for secondary dwellings we have two directions first is to align the

[0:20:27] Voice 2: secondary dwelling allowances to those that are within the agricultural land commission act and

[0:20:31] Voice 2: regulations and secondly to ensure that any new secondary dwellings do provide proof or evidence

[0:20:38] Voice 2: of adequate potable water and septic capacity or equivalent for new builds in terms of implications

[0:20:46] Voice 2: implications there are some implications for both the OCP and the land use bylaw so for the OCP

[0:20:52] Voice 2: there will need to be revisions made to the number type and size of dwellings allowed in the ALR

[0:20:57] Voice 2: we'll need to add some language to align with the ALR regulations and criteria as well as

[0:21:02] Voice 2: including some setbacks for residential uses as per the ministry of agriculture guidelines for

[0:21:08] Voice 2: setbacks and for the land use bylaws to look at removing the need for temporary use permits

[0:21:14] Voice 2: for secondary suites and secondary dwellings if this is the direction that the LTC would like to

[0:21:19] Voice 2: go and to include requirements for adequate water supply and septic or equivalent and also just

[0:21:25] Voice 2: generally to add some language around compliance with ALR regulations since this is an area that

[0:21:29] Voice 2: is mostly outside the jurisdiction of the Islands Trust. Another type of residential development

[0:21:39] Voice 2: that we looked at were agritourism accommodations.

[0:21:43] Voice 2: There was a lot of miscommunication

[0:21:47] Voice 2: and misunderstanding amongst residences generally

[0:21:50] Voice 2: around who can and can't have agritourism accommodations.

[0:21:53] Voice 2: For example, many felt that any farm

[0:21:56] Voice 2: or any property in the ALR

[0:21:58] Voice 2: would be allowed agritourism accommodations.

[0:22:00] Voice 2: So the fact is that if you're in the ALR,

[0:22:04] Voice 2: you still need to have farm tax status

[0:22:06] Voice 2: in order to be able to qualify

[0:22:08] Voice 2: for agritourism accommodations.

[0:22:09] Voice 2: and you have to be doing specific agricultural activities that are on a specific list that the

[0:22:17] Voice 2: ALC provides so it is a lot more restrictive than most people believe there's also currently

[0:22:23] Voice 2: restrictions in place at the local government level and so for agritourism accommodations

[0:22:27] Voice 2: local governments can wholly restrict or prohibit agritourism accommodations or they can make

[0:22:33] Voice 2: restrictions to them um bed and breakfast so that that is um bedrooms in a principal dwelling are

[0:22:40] Voice 2: not the same thing as agritourism accommodations so agritourism accommodations are usually cabins

[0:22:45] Voice 2: or rv sites or campsites and there's a specific number of maximum beds that are allowed which is

[0:22:52] Voice 2: 10 and lot coverage which is five percent so we had to do a little bit of community education

[0:22:59] Voice 2: around this topic. And it was great to see that people were live to the issue and interested in

[0:23:05] Voice 2: learning about the issue. The support was, as you can see from this pie chart, a little all over the

[0:23:09] Voice 2: place. So there was about a quarter or just over a quarter of respondents who wanted the alignment

[0:23:16] Voice 2: to happen with the current ALC rules and regulations of 10 bedrooms or units or tents and

[0:23:22] Voice 2: 5% coverage. The status quo, which is the gray, was the other large piece, which wanted to see

[0:23:29] Voice 2: no no agritourism support whatsoever but then the the middle ground was the orange and the

[0:23:35] Voice 2: yellow so more restrictive approach for example less than 10 units or a more nuanced approach

[0:23:41] Voice 2: so allowing some forms such as tents but not cabins so that was the the feedback that we

[0:23:46] Voice 2: received there so we have three directions when it comes to agritourism accommodations

[0:23:53] Voice 2: accommodations the first one is to align with the ALC act and regulations to ensure that they are

[0:24:01] Voice 2: meeting the requirements at the provincial level that for example it must be connected to a property

[0:24:06] Voice 2: with farm tax status there would be a maximum of 10 beds or tents or five percent lot coverage

[0:24:11] Voice 2: and the accommodation has to be seasonal and short-term only again those are provincial

[0:24:15] Voice 2: requirements a second direction would be to ensure that they all have adequate potable water and

[0:24:21] Voice 2: septic capacity or equivalent so this is just ensuring that this additional type of residential

[0:24:26] Voice 2: structure is in alignment or consistent with others and the third is to keep the the B&B

[0:24:33] Voice 2: policies so bedrooms within principal homes as a separate policy in keeping with the ALC Act and

[0:24:39] Voice 2: regulations there are up to four that are allowed right now Denman Island allows three as a status

[0:24:45] Voice 2: quo so any anything additional would be considered agritourism accommodation and would only be

[0:24:51] Voice 2: allowed on farm tax status sites. B&B does not have to have farm tax status, so that's why it's

[0:24:57] Voice 2: important to differentiate between the two. In terms of implications, so for OCP implications

[0:25:04] Voice 2: under, there are some implications around adding notes about that the accommodation for agritourism

[0:25:11] Voice 2: must be consistent with the ALC Act and regulations, as well as Dem and Island bylaws,

[0:25:16] Voice 2: that there is the status quo there for the maximum of three bedrooms in a principal dwelling,

[0:25:21] Voice 2: but just to ensure that those are clearly separated and including in Section E along

[0:25:28] Voice 2: the lines of the number of beds and lot coverage maximums that the LTC decides upon. In terms of

[0:25:36] Voice 2: the land use by-law, updating some definitions and the tables where the permitted uses are clearly

[0:25:41] Voice 2: laid out and language around adequate water supply and septic. The last topic that we canvassed the

[0:25:49] Voice 2: the community about was around setbacks from watercourses. So over three quarters or over 75%

[0:25:55] Voice 2: of those who responded were open to discussing agricultural setbacks and policies for watercourses

[0:26:01] Voice 2: and were generally supportive. Several wanted to see more information. The farming community was

[0:26:07] Voice 2: slightly apprehensive, particularly around setbacks for passive types of agricultural

[0:26:12] Voice 2: So livestock raising, fencing, crop production, and so on.

[0:26:19] Voice 2: We are recommending that the topic get revisited when the Denman Island Land Use By-law is fully updated and revised along with development permit areas.

[0:26:29] Voice 2: You will see that we provided some initial language around restricting structures in particular agricultural structures

[0:26:36] Voice 2: structures from within a specific setback area for riparian areas, watercourses, and from the sea.

[0:26:43] Voice 2: And this is partly in alignment with two things. One is the provincial agricultural management

[0:26:50] Voice 2: code of practice. And the other is the Islands Trust Policy Statement that came out last year

[0:26:55] Voice 2: that is specifically requesting that new policies provide the most stringent environmental protection

[0:27:02] Voice 2: as possible around agriculture and best practices so we did refer to that document as well when

[0:27:08] Voice 2: coming up with some of the revisions but yeah I'd be interested to hear your feedback on that

[0:27:12] Voice 2: the OCP implications are really none in terms of the land use bylaw implications it's to just do

[0:27:19] Voice 2: some revisions to language around talking about the setbacks from the natural boundaries

[0:27:24] Voice 2: and also specifically replacing feedlock with agriculture more generally

[0:27:29] Voice 2: um at previously there were restrictions on setbacks for feedlots but not not other types

[0:27:35] Voice 2: of agricultural structures so it's just to provide an update there in terms of other housekeeping

[0:27:43] Voice 2: items we did get feedback um that temporary use permits were not desirable particularly by the

[0:27:49] Voice 2: farming community so it might be um useful to find another mechanism in order to allow uh for the

[0:27:56] Voice 2: evidence or proof of adequate water and septic for additional residences to be brought forward if

[0:28:01] Voice 2: we're not using temporary use permits we'll need to figure out a different tool for that also for

[0:28:08] Voice 2: fencing we are recommending to remove fencing height restrictions in the ALR that's a best

[0:28:13] Voice 2: practice and there was concern with the language around panhandle lots where the language was

[0:28:19] Voice 2: shall not so we're recommending that the term shall not just be replaced with will be discouraged

[0:28:26] Voice 2: to allow some flexibility as needed.

[0:28:30] Voice 2: So as next steps, obviously we're looking to you

[0:28:34] Voice 2: for your recommended changes and to receive your feedback.

[0:28:37] Voice 2: And then we will be going to do an external review

[0:28:40] Voice 2: and to make some final revisions at that point.

[0:28:44] Voice 2: And that's it.

[0:28:45] Voice 2: I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.

[0:28:50] Chair Fast (probable): Okay, thank you, Ione.

[0:28:52] Chair Fast (probable): Questions for the consultant.

[0:28:56] Chair Fast (probable): Would

[0:28:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): you like to start off Laura or Shane?

[0:28:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Yeah, and I don't know if, oh, I'll lean forward. I don't know if they're for the consultant or the planner, but we'll see, or both. Yeah, and thanks so much. This is like a huge piece of work. And this stuff is really detailed, and I find even just studying it, the fact that there's an old bylaw from I don't know how many years ago that we're kind of working on top of almost makes it harder, like just in terms of the actual planning language work.

[0:29:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): work. So thank you. So I've got a fair number of questions. And the first, in fact, you just

[0:29:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): touched on, if we are asking for proof, there's various places we ask for proof. And the wording

[0:29:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that I dotted down is proof that adequate water supply and septic or equivalent is available for

[0:29:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): each dwelling. I guess this is for secondary dwellings. For each dwelling unit without

[0:29:49] Trustee Busheikin (probable): without endangering the water supply of adjacent landowners.

[0:29:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): That sounds like a no-brainer.

[0:29:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): That's what we want.

[0:30:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): does that actually mean in practice, how will, what will trigger the need to provide that proof?

[0:30:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I imagine it's a citing and use permit, but what are we asking? Or, cause if, you know,

[0:30:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): if we're asking for like pump tests, that gets quite challenging. Like that's quite a big thing

[0:30:23] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to do um and um yeah and if it's seasonal i mean i i know of people living in seasonal

[0:30:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): uh accommodation and working on farms right now and they have an outhouse and they

[0:30:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): shower in the main house like like and would we be precluding that because that's a totally

[0:30:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): adequate setup that allows some of our farms to keep operating. So yeah, that's like a whole lot

[0:30:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of questions around that. And I'll see who would like to answer.

[0:31:02] Voice 2: I can take a first stab at it and

[0:31:03] Voice 2: then I'll turn it to Marlis. So when I was looking through the existing land use bylaw, it looked

[0:31:09] Voice 2: like that language was already there for certain other types of residential development outside

[0:31:14] Voice 2: the ALR or outside the agriculture zone. So really all I did was copy and paste. So to make sure that

[0:31:20] Voice 2: it was going to be consistent. So my thinking was that there was a mechanism somehow in place to

[0:31:25] Voice 2: capture that for other types of development and other types of zones. And certainly when we toured

[0:31:30] Voice 2: around the island, we did see, you know, lots of rainwater capture, for example, and efforts being

[0:31:36] Voice 2: made certainly to ensure that adequate water supply is being done well on those properties.

[0:31:43] Voice 2: But in terms of a specific mechanism and what level of evidence and what type of evidence is required, somewhat beyond the scope of this project, I think that if there is a tried and tested way that is being done for other zones on Denman, then I would suggest keeping it consistent.

[0:32:01] Voice 2: But I'll turn to Marlis, might have some other ideas to that effect.

[0:32:07] Voice 2: Go ahead, Planner McCarver.

[0:32:08] Chair Fast (probable): Yeah,

[0:32:09] Planner McCargar (probable): so, I mean, it is going to be a little bit tricky layers, sort of multiple layers, I see, you know, for the agritourism, that wouldn't trigger a sighting and use permit necessarily if someone's just building campsites or, you know, depending on the size of a platform they're building or what the nature of the project is, that wouldn't trigger a sighting and use permit.

[0:32:33] Planner McCargar (probable): So we wouldn't really have a mechanism in that case.

[0:32:38] Planner McCargar (probable): They would be required to apply for a water license from the province.

[0:32:44] Planner McCargar (probable): So whether we feel confident that that would be enough to sort of satisfy the requirement for adequate water.

[0:32:56] Planner McCargar (probable): And then I do, I know throughout the bylaw that that wording is used.

[0:33:02] Planner McCargar (probable): So I'm wondering if, Sonia, do you have, if you're listening in, for secondary suites and dwelling units, have we provided this, you know, what's been the status quo in the past?

[0:33:16] Planner McCargar (probable): There is, in one area, it says a written plan for the supply of water is to be provided.

[0:33:26] Voice 5: Yeah, we haven't had a lot of uptake on that or submissions for it.

[0:33:30] Voice 5: So I have to dig through the files to see what's been accepted in the past.

[0:33:36] Voice 5: A professional report is sufficient for the purposes of other applications to verify the quality or quantity of water that's currently being withdrawn from an aquifer for domestic use or for a different type of use and estimates around how much that new use is going to require.

[0:33:57] Voice 5: require. So if somebody signs off saying they verified as of a certain date that the well can

[0:34:03] Voice 5: support that additional use or estimated quantity and that the quality is sufficient. So these are

[0:34:10] Voice 5: the types of things that we can report back to the LTC on in terms of more specific mechanisms

[0:34:15] Voice 5: to ensure a streamlined approach so that there isn't one administrative extra burden for one

[0:34:25] Voice 5: particular use that isn't the same as what's being applied elsewhere on the island we'd like it to be

[0:34:30] Voice 5: relatively streamlined so that all additional intensification of uses are treated the same

[0:34:35] Voice 5: way in terms of what their impact is on septic and water thank you

[0:34:41] Chair Fast (probable): um thank you sonja for popping in

[0:34:43] Chair Fast (probable): i i um if they have to apply can i just follow up a quick follow-up question just for me um if they

[0:34:53] Chair Fast (probable): are needing to apply to the province for a water license uh it's up to the province to decide

[0:34:59] Chair Fast (probable): what they need to submit in their application or is that islands trust or is that from the

[0:35:07] Chair Fast (probable): bylaw that sonja was just talking about no

[0:35:09] Planner McCargar (probable): so that would be um that's provincial provincial

[0:35:12] Planner McCargar (probable): requirements and there's a whole separate um application that that doesn't go through us at

[0:35:18] Planner McCargar (probable): all okay

[0:35:19] Chair Fast (probable): thank you thank you okay uh trustee yeah

[0:35:24] Trustee Critchley (probable): i don't want to jump in um unduly here where

[0:35:28] Trustee Critchley (probable): trustee gushakin has got a lengthy list but it might be useful once we get onto a topic like

[0:35:33] Trustee Critchley (probable): this you know to have a full discussion rather than you go through your whole list and then

[0:35:37] Trustee Critchley (probable): and then i come in we start again um because it does trigger a number of things for example um

[0:35:44] Trustee Critchley (probable): One of the questions I had kind of answered by Planner McCarger, but saying that you didn't think that a siting and use permit would be required for a tenting situation.

[0:35:59] Trustee Critchley (probable): And I was thinking, yes, if it was just going to be tenting on the ground, definitely there's no structure.

[0:36:07] Trustee Critchley (probable): Although a tent itself would be a structure, I suppose, could be a structure.

[0:36:10] Trustee Critchley (probable): but if you do have what seems to be common these days is some sort of a platform for people to you

[0:36:16] Trustee Critchley (probable): know comfortably erect a tent wouldn't that be a structure and wouldn't we wouldn't that then

[0:36:22] Trustee Critchley (probable): trigger uh setback requirements and such like and the reason that i'm asking this or you might

[0:36:28] Trustee Critchley (probable): further want to comment both of you about um setbacks in this situation because right now it's

[0:36:37] Trustee Critchley (probable): novel um and we might think well tenting is pretty innocuous but if you've got 10 campsites

[0:36:47] Trustee Critchley (probable): um what that could be a nuisance to a neighbor potentially so we might want to have some setback

[0:36:54] Trustee Critchley (probable): requirements um put in there anyway i'll just be interested in the professional response to that

[0:36:59] Trustee Critchley (probable): concern how would you address that

[0:37:02] Chair Fast (probable): let's ask ioni first if she's got any comment

[0:37:06] Voice 2: sure so

[0:37:07] Voice 2: So in addition to the number of sites, so say campsites, it's also a 5% lot coverage.

[0:37:14] Voice 2: So they have to be located only on 5% of the lot.

[0:37:19] Voice 2: So they can't be necessarily like spread all around.

[0:37:22] Voice 2: And as local governments, it would be within your jurisdiction to impose setbacks, if you

[0:37:27] Voice 2: like, minimum and maximum.

[0:37:29] Voice 2: You could also, for example, say that platforms are not allowed.

[0:37:33] Voice 2: So it's up to you to decide how you do or do not want to accommodate agritourism accommodations. So there are quite a lot of flexible options within the realm of what it looks like. You could also say that cabins are not allowed, but tents are, or RV sites are not allowed, but tents are.

[0:37:50] Voice 2: So you have a lot of flexibility. This is one of the themes or one of the kind of topics within

[0:37:56] Voice 2: the ALC Act that local governments have full-fledged ability to restrict as much as they

[0:38:02] Voice 2: like. They can't go higher than what the ALC will allow, but they can certainly go tighter in terms

[0:38:08] Voice 2: of restrictions. Thank you. Can

[0:38:12] Trustee Critchley (probable): I just follow up on that? Go ahead. I've got a follow-up question

[0:38:22] Trustee Critchley (probable): This sounds kind of strange to me, how this would be applied in a tenting situation.

[0:38:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): I mean, you've got, let's say, you know, a tent is five feet by 10 feet, okay, it's 50 square feet.

[0:38:37] Trustee Critchley (probable): So there's 10 of them, that's 500 square feet.

[0:38:42] Trustee Critchley (probable): Could they be not scattered all around 10 acres or whatever they have?

[0:38:49] Trustee Critchley (probable): and I mean I don't

[0:38:50] Trustee Critchley (probable): see 5% as being any kind of real restriction for in most situations I'd be

[0:38:56] Trustee Critchley (probable): surprised if they would yeah

[0:38:59] Voice 2: that's a good question it's also to do with the um accessory

[0:39:02] Voice 2: so so like the washrooms that may need to go with it like any of those structures or any of those

[0:39:08] Voice 2: accessory uses with it and it's the contiguous I believe it's mapped as a contiguous space not just

[0:39:14] Voice 2: dots so so it has to be

[0:39:18] Voice 9: sorry i

[0:39:21] Voice 2: didn't hear the question yeah

[0:39:23] Trustee Critchley (probable): does it have to be contiguous then

[0:39:25] Trustee Critchley (probable): if you're going to have campsites um in an agri-tourism setting on agricultural alr land

[0:39:31] Trustee Critchley (probable): then do they all have to be clustered together is that is that implied or required they do not

[0:39:38] Voice 2: need to be clustered together but when calculating the five percent it's it's calculated not just as

[0:39:44] Voice 2: those specific tent areas but the entire area between them as well so sort of drawing kind of

[0:39:50] Voice 2: an amoeba shape around all the tents and connecting them and as well as the washrooms or groups group

[0:39:57] Voice 2: area for example there haven't been too many examples that have come across the ALC desk that

[0:40:02] Voice 2: I'm aware of so but there are some and so I could certainly send them to you so you can see how it's

[0:40:07] Voice 2: been calculated in the past thank

[0:40:10] Chair Fast (probable): you that answers my question too which was how can tents be spread

[0:40:14] Chair Fast (probable): spread out all around and not yes

[0:40:18] Voice 2: okay that's good and again just to reiterate as local governments

[0:40:22] Voice 2: in this particular topic you could place even further restrictions so you could say all tents

[0:40:26] Voice 2: need to be within so many square meters in a setback area you could even be more restrictive

[0:40:32] Voice 2: if you like thank

[0:40:33] Chair Fast (probable): you anything you want to add to that planner mccarver um

[0:40:39] Planner McCargar (probable): i i don't think so i

[0:40:41] Planner McCargar (probable): I guess, well, I will add, um, so any of like the zoning bylaw would apply to any type of

[0:40:47] Planner McCargar (probable): structures or platforms or, you know, um, a fixed tent, like if they're, they're building

[0:40:53] Planner McCargar (probable): a tenting structure, but if, you know, it's just a, a patch of dirt and someone is bringing

[0:40:59] Planner McCargar (probable): in their own tent, then it's, we're not going to be triggered, you know, citing a use permit

[0:41:05] Planner McCargar (probable): isn't going to be triggered necessarily for that.

[0:41:09] Chair Fast (probable): but but that would be tenting like a camp camp ground it would still be it it would still be

[0:41:17] Chair Fast (probable): um the agritourism use though wouldn't it

[0:41:22] Planner McCargar (probable): it would be yeah it's just they wouldn't be required

[0:41:25] Planner McCargar (probable): to apply for a siting and use permit because they unless they were building you know a washroom to

[0:41:29] Planner McCargar (probable): go with that uh but for just a patch of you know a campsite carved out in a patch of dirt

[0:41:36] Planner McCargar (probable): they wouldn't be required thank

[0:41:38] Chair Fast (probable): you all right okay go

[0:41:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): ahead trustee beshaken yeah i'd like like

[0:41:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i i like the idea of having a sort of thorough conversation about these questions as they come

[0:41:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): up like i'm just thinking um you know if we were to go ahead with allowing this which i'm in favor

[0:41:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to a degree um i would like before we take it to the public to have an answer to this

[0:42:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): difficult question which is if we are requiring this proof of adequate water supply and septic

[0:42:12] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just some sense of what we're requiring and how it would be triggered i understand what tup could

[0:42:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): work well say for cabins but and platforms but not for campsites so then i guess we're just

[0:42:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): leaving it as it's in people's up to their sense of honesty if they're you know a farm has

[0:42:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): agritourism and is going to offer some camping that they would approach the ltc and say i want

[0:42:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to provide my proof of water subject but the next question would be well what do you need from me

[0:42:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and in fact that probably would be an early question if they're looking at their business

[0:42:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): plan like is it going to be thousands of dollars of professional reports and testing and and um

[0:42:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): uh like i just i think we need some kind of uh policy maybe or i'm not even sure what the

[0:43:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): The mechanism is to be clear what we're

[0:43:09] Voice 2: asking for.

[0:43:12] Voice 2: If I could just say one point of consideration is just as a reminder, only lots that are in the ALR and that have farm tax status would even be eligible.

[0:43:21] Voice 2: And right now that's only 38 lots on all of Demmon Island that are in the ALR and have farm tax status.

[0:43:27] Voice 2: and so given that number it would be possible to do a tailored almost nuanced approach as a

[0:43:33] Voice 2: next step of even doing outreach to those landowners and asking them what their interest

[0:43:37] Voice 2: is or you know what their intent is because it's very possible that half of them have no interest

[0:43:42] Voice 2: or intent of doing agritourism accommodation and they also need to be specifically linked to

[0:43:47] Voice 2: certain types of agricultural activity so there's further levels of criteria at the provincial level

[0:43:51] Voice 2: that may you know knock that number 38 down to 22 um so it doesn't have i don't i'm not sure like

[0:43:59] Voice 2: that a policy or something is necessary given the number of lots that would actually qualify at this

[0:44:03] Voice 2: point but that's of course at your discretion it could be just one more layer of engagement

[0:44:08] Voice 2: to take place next before you decide on how to proceed that might provide you quite a lot of

[0:44:13] Voice 2: information with what could be necessary or not necessary thank

[0:44:20] Chair Fast (probable): you i'm going to uh i'm going to

[0:44:22] Chair Fast (probable): go to trustee critchley first i'll come back to laura go ahead trustee critchley thank

[0:44:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): you um this

[0:44:28] Trustee Critchley (probable): raises another one that i had flagged was um the requirement that that i heard uh that it must be

[0:44:37] Trustee Critchley (probable): related to farm activities could you expand on that and how we would how you know how is that

[0:44:45] Trustee Critchley (probable): written down somewhere is there a specific uh um alr policy that then that we must follow

[0:44:53] Trustee Critchley (probable): follow? And if

[0:44:54] Trustee Critchley (probable): so, could we see the wording on that? Or do we need to kind of parallel the wording

[0:44:59] Trustee Critchley (probable): into our bylaws so that we, well, I guess that we could enforce it if need be?

[0:45:07] Voice 2: I can certainly

[0:45:08] Voice 2: bring it up. Just give me one second. It'll just take me a minute to get it up from my laptop.

[0:45:12] Voice 2: But I can certainly share the screen so you can see the wording on that in just a minute.

[0:45:17] Trustee Critchley (probable): Sure. So actually, while you're doing that, I'll just put out my inclinations at the moment.

[0:45:23] Trustee Critchley (probable): I'm concerned about this overall topic because I see it as the potential for fairly radical

[0:45:31] Trustee Critchley (probable): alteration in the way that Demand operates to this point. Yes, there's only 38 farm tax ALR

[0:45:43] Trustee Critchley (probable): properties at the moment, but there are 164 total, which could theoretically obtain that status and

[0:45:50] Trustee Critchley (probable): be eligible for this sort of thing. And if we have 10 tents or cabins per site, that could be a whole

[0:45:59] Trustee Critchley (probable): lot of tourists. And we're certainly not used to that. And we look at Hornby and think, at least I

[0:46:05] Trustee Critchley (probable): think, well, at least Denman isn't Hornby. And I don't want to see it become that way. And I don't

[0:46:13] Trustee Critchley (probable): think most people on Denman want to emulate Hornby. So, you know, I think this is a concern.

[0:46:21] Trustee Critchley (probable): And I will just make another comment while I'm here about this. I already mentioned concern about

[0:46:29] Trustee Critchley (probable): the input of the public. And I've got a little theory that I think that many of the public think,

[0:46:37] Trustee Critchley (probable): oh this is farm stuff and it really doesn't um bother me you know i'm not a farmer i don't

[0:46:45] Trustee Critchley (probable): intend to or you know it's it's not a concern but if you're living next to a farm and all of a sudden

[0:46:51] Trustee Critchley (probable): got 10 campsites that are occupied continuously during the summer period

[0:46:56] Trustee Critchley (probable): then you might be concerned and also if you're one of the parcels next door to one of the 164

[0:47:06] Trustee Critchley (probable): for ALR parcels that could now have a secondary dwelling,

[0:47:12] Trustee Critchley (probable): you know, where that goes and does it go

[0:47:15] Trustee Critchley (probable): on every ALR property?

[0:47:17] Trustee Critchley (probable): You know, we're looking at substantial increases

[0:47:19] Trustee Critchley (probable): to the potentially to the population of Denman

[0:47:23] Trustee Critchley (probable): by fairly few strokes of the pen here.

[0:47:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): And I'm concerned that, you know,

[0:47:28] Trustee Critchley (probable): people aren't really aware of the island wide,

[0:47:32] Trustee Critchley (probable): provide very substantial uh effects that these bylaws may have so anyway okay i was just thank

[0:47:41] Chair Fast (probable): you using that to

[0:47:42] Trustee Critchley (probable): fill in time yeah

[0:47:44] Chair Fast (probable): thank you trustee critchley and before we go to ioni smith

[0:47:47] Chair Fast (probable): um uh planner mccarger you had something yeah

[0:47:51] Planner McCargar (probable): i just wanted to mention so what i only had said

[0:47:55] Planner McCargar (probable): about you know the feedback from a lot of uh the community was that they didn't want to see the

[0:48:00] Planner McCargar (probable): temporary use permits for secondary dwellings or the agritourism. But we, you know, we could

[0:48:08] Planner McCargar (probable): look at another, you know, keeping the temporary use permits, and that would give you

[0:48:15] Planner McCargar (probable): another mechanism for really controlling what type of development is happening.

[0:48:24] Planner McCargar (probable): There's some options within the temporary use permit that we could explore,

[0:48:29] Planner McCargar (probable): But that would give you some assurance of, you know, what's going on and also could help to regulate the water and septic, if that's a concern, and then could always revisit it in three or six years.

[0:48:46] Chair Fast (probable): Right.

[0:48:47] Planner McCargar (probable): Yeah, just that that is an option.

[0:48:50] Chair Fast (probable): Okay.

[0:48:51] Trustee Critchley (probable): Trustee Critchley?

[0:48:53] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yeah, just chiming in on that. Another virtue of that, although it is bureaucratic and involves expense, but it does give us a bit of a handle on the thing for a three-year period.

[0:49:09] Trustee Critchley (probable): and we can see how it goes you know rather than sort of jumping off the high tower here

[0:49:17] Trustee Critchley (probable): we'll just be dipping our toes in the water a bit to see how this how this actually works on

[0:49:25] Trustee Critchley (probable): the ground yeah thank you okay thank you

[0:49:28] Voice 2: back over to you Ione sure so I brought up this is

[0:49:32] Voice 2: the policy that's posted on the ALC website regarding agritourism accommodation and so it

[0:49:37] Voice 2: it specifically outlines the criteria. So first of all, um, as I mentioned, it has to be in the ALR

[0:49:44] Voice 2: and has to be classified as a, as a farm under the assessment act. Um, there is no requirement

[0:49:50] Voice 2: for a fee. So the event doesn't have to be, um, be charged. It could be for free. Um, there can

[0:49:56] Voice 2: no, there cannot be any permanent facilities constructed, or it can't be in connection with

[0:50:01] Voice 2: any permanent facilities, um, or, or anything like that. And it has to fall into one of these

[0:50:06] Voice 2: categories. So this is the important part. So agricultural heritage exhibit, a tour or

[0:50:10] Voice 2: educational activity or demonstration, cart, sleigh or tractor rides, horse related to activities

[0:50:18] Voice 2: or marketing of livestock. For example, if somebody wanted to do an auction or petting

[0:50:24] Voice 2: zoos or trials, dog trials, harvest festivals, corn mazes. So it's specifically things like that.

[0:50:31] Voice 2: it's not just a farm so it's not just you know it's not for woofers working on farms it's not

[0:50:37] Voice 2: just if somebody's got a veggie patch they can't have now 10 campsites it has to be specifically

[0:50:42] Voice 2: a tourist event so one of these in this particular list it has to fit in there so you know

[0:50:50] Voice 2: that also kind of provides a filter if you would of the number of likely applications you might

[0:50:57] Voice 2: get um and then here you have the the five percent of any parcel the 10 sleeping units and so there

[0:51:04] Voice 2: it's defined there and then the seasonal and the short term so one person can't stay for more than

[0:51:11] Voice 2: 30 days that's how it's defined there does that answer your question trustee crishley at all

[0:51:18] Voice 2: uh

[0:51:19] Trustee Critchley (probable): well it i think it answers the question but it sort of begs a lot more and raises concerns

[0:51:25] Trustee Critchley (probable): because of words like, you know, a tour of the agricultural land or an educational activity.

[0:51:34] Trustee Critchley (probable): I mean, those could be very brief and, you know, just I'm just thinking of somebody who essentially wants to run a campground,

[0:51:46] Trustee Critchley (probable): but can then exploit these particular regulations to accomplish that.

[0:51:51] Trustee Critchley (probable): that. And yeah, I'd be quite concerned about that. I mean, how on earth do you enforce that?

[0:52:00] Trustee Critchley (probable): Also, if it's talking about can only be there for 30 days, that's kind of astounding. I would

[0:52:06] Trustee Critchley (probable): have thought, you know, if you're having an educational activity or a tour or something or

[0:52:12] Trustee Critchley (probable): a tractor ride, you're not going to be there for 30 days, surely. But yet, the regulations

[0:52:19] Trustee Critchley (probable): contemplate a stay of up to that length so uh yeah i'm a little concerned really about

[0:52:26] Trustee Critchley (probable): how far this could go okay

[0:52:29] Chair Fast (probable): so can do we want to continue with this agritourism uh discussion and

[0:52:34] Chair Fast (probable): questions or uh shall we laura did you have any uh trustee beshaken did you have questions about

[0:52:41] Chair Fast (probable): the agritourism side of things um just

[0:52:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): a moment i

[0:52:50] Chair Fast (probable): can't hear you very well

[0:52:52] Voice 8: when your head is okay

[0:52:52] Voice 8: Okay.

[0:52:55] Voice 7: I just

[0:53:00] Voice 8: wanted to make sure.

[0:53:01] Voice 8: Yeah.

[0:53:01] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Okay. No, I don't have more questions about agritourism, although I,

[0:53:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I mean, I have, you know, I have my inclinations also,

[0:53:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and I'm thinking that since, you know, it's sort of, do we discuss,

[0:53:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): do we do questions now or, and, and, you know, intentions later,

[0:53:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but just since David did explain his intentions and I think it is helpful to

[0:53:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to sort of know where we're at. So if you'll just give me a minute, I'll give an overview of what

[0:53:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I'm thinking. I am, for me, this was the most sort of complex part in terms of looking at the

[0:53:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): recommendations, engaging what I think we should go ahead with. I'm not maybe exactly on the same

[0:53:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): page as Trustee Critchley, but fairly close. And, you know, and I do know the simplicity of just

[0:53:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): aligning with the ALC. That is the simplest. But I know that only 30% of questionnaire respondents

[0:53:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): actually support the agritourism accommodation regulations that the ALC has. And the other 70%

[0:54:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): wanted, were either no support or more nuanced or more restrictive. So I think that really gives us

[0:54:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): our marching orders. And I think that it's actually very hard to understand. And I know

[0:54:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just from talking to people like they don't understand what agritourism is and that this

[0:54:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): isn't just carte blanche that if you have a farm and have tax status and are in the ALR which

[0:54:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): already many people don't understand like it's oh you have a farm oh you can have cabins you can

[0:54:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): have tents and I know it's our job to educate people and regulate but it's um it's I think

[0:54:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): opening the door for a lot of um like misunderstandings um and um and i agree that

[0:54:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i mean we need an economy and the whole point of this is that farmers especially small farmers

[0:55:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): which is what we have here they really need a second source of income to make it work in most

[0:55:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): cases whether that's a job outside the farm uh inherited money or hopefully maybe something

[0:55:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): something extra they can do on their farm. And I think that's the reason for the agritourism

[0:55:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): potential. And I think we want to focus on that. And I just think 10 cabins really opens the door

[0:55:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to someone who wants to make enough money to get that farm tech status, but really run a little

[0:55:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): mini resort. And I know that that may not happen, but I keep a close eye on Hornby. I have family

[0:55:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): there. I've been going there for years and I was chair of their local trust committee and I have

[0:55:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I've seen major changes and it only takes one facility to, if they are very good at

[0:55:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): marketing, they can market Denman as a big wedding destination, for instance, with 10

[0:55:54] Trustee Busheikin (probable): cottages you can stay in.

[0:55:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And I mean, weddings are great for the economy and I know they happen already, but they're

[0:56:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): at a reasonable scale.

[0:56:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And the big weddings are, they block up the ferry, they use up the water, they're noisy,

[0:56:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): people drive around at night at two in the morning whooping um things like that like and it's ongoing

[0:56:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): like it's not just once in a while and it's it's really um upped the tourism and and then yeah so

[0:56:23] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i am yeah i would be into going ahead i'm a little leery of the temporary use permit just because if

[0:56:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): you're doing like three campsites you're not going to make much money and the tup just makes it

[0:56:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): unviable so i would be interested in limiting it and i like the idea of setbacks um and uh going

[0:56:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): ahead that way um and the only other thing and this is more of a question like i am like with

[0:56:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the tents like if you don't need a temporary use permit essentially there is no way to monitor it

[0:56:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and since it is a new use could we change our temporary use permit policy and include commercial

[0:57:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): commercial tenting associated with agritourism and capture it that way instead of having a whole

[0:57:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): TUP thing because then you've got to get your TUP and your SUP and you know how much do you charge

[0:57:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for a campsite and is it worth it so that is actually a question at the end of my little

[0:57:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): speech.

[0:57:22] Chair Fast (probable): Thank you Trustee Boucher and I agree with you about the scale of an island is different from

[0:57:28] Chair Fast (probable): on the scale of a big farm with hundreds of acres anyway over to uh uh planner mccarver about that

[0:57:36] Chair Fast (probable): last question which

[0:57:39] Planner McCargar (probable): can you repeat were you asking about changing the

[0:57:42] Planner McCargar (probable): sup or yeah

[0:57:43] Trustee Busheikin (probable): like could we change

[0:57:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): our sup requirement so that if someone is going to be creating space on their property and and

[0:57:54] Trustee Busheikin (probable): starting a new use because it is siting and use of commercial camping um associated with

[0:58:01] Trustee Busheikin (probable): agritourism let's be really clear that they would need a siting and use permit for that

[0:58:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just for creating the spaces and hosting it

[0:58:11] Planner McCargar (probable): yeah sonia would that be a possibility would we

[0:58:14] Planner McCargar (probable): just have to amend the um development approval bylaw is it can't hear you

[0:58:25] Voice 5: so there's a citing and use procedure and then we can only ask for certain things with that

[0:58:36] Voice 5: citing and use permit application so we can definitely come back to you in September with

[0:58:41] Voice 5: some suggestions as to the best way to capture not just the use but also any subsequent follow-up

[0:58:50] Voice 5: information that might need to be submitted and which tools and tricks we can use to ensure that

[0:58:56] Voice 5: the information is provided in advance, who would be exempt, at what scale of the land use would it

[0:59:01] Voice 5: be triggered? As you mentioned, if the LTC contemplates three campsites versus the full 10,

[0:59:08] Voice 5: then this might be a mute discussion, right? So at this point, you haven't made those decisions,

[0:59:13] Voice 5: but perhaps in September, you could consider a more comprehensive suite of options to look at

[0:59:20] Voice 5: how the agritourism accommodation could best be addressed with the existing procedures that we

[0:59:26] Voice 5: have and information requests that we typically ask of applicants or owners.

[0:59:31] Chair Fast (probable): Thank you and I'm

[0:59:32] Chair Fast (probable): while you're here Sonia I just want to check in we're at three o'clock looking ahead we've got

[0:59:39] Chair Fast (probable): another hour and a half is this process going to be helpful or do you want me to try and focus it

[0:59:46] Chair Fast (probable): down more to specific questions because we do have recommendations in the whole planners report to

[0:59:51] Chair Fast (probable): come uh yet hearing nobody asking for changes okay then we'll continue as we are go ahead trustee

[1:00:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): shaken thanks um uh i think that we're actually getting into the nitty-gritty of trying to figure

[1:00:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): out what we're going to do here so i i think it's good um so um planners supernets um the i think

[1:00:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that the kind of quandary is that as we understand that for campsites you wouldn't even need a

[1:00:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): sighting and use permit right now so it isn't even a question of what can we ask for in that

[1:00:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): setting use permit but can we actually ask for a setting and use permit before can we require that

[1:00:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for campsites if they don't have a platform so that would be something i'd love to hear about

[1:00:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): in the future okay

[1:00:39] Chair Fast (probable): i think we're gonna have to wait to a future meeting for that but i hear

[1:00:42] Chair Fast (probable): the request has been made yeah or were you looking

[1:00:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for an answer here no no no i think that um i

[1:00:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): think it's something that probably i assume you have to look into okay

[1:00:55] Voice 5: is that true i think it's

[1:00:58] Voice 5: It's worth providing you with some options and a bit of analysis for the pros and cons of the different approaches and possibly just looking at some scenarios around the scale of whatever it is that you might be looking at, whether it's cabins or tents and how those might get triggered and what type of information might be required.

[1:01:16] Voice 5: because you're right it is a verification of the use and the citing of that use on a parcel

[1:01:21] Voice 5: however if it's small footprints multiple small footprints that circumvent the 100 square foot

[1:01:28] Voice 5: sort of exemption then we we're creating a loophole that nobody's going to get caught in

[1:01:35] Voice 5: right if it's just these little platforms that none of them require a citing and use permit

[1:01:39] Voice 5: but generally have to comply with a setback regulation anyway so it's voluntary but we can

[1:01:45] Voice 5: do all that analysis and provide you with some options okay thank you

[1:01:50] Chair Fast (probable): okay shall we move on to

[1:01:53] Chair Fast (probable): a different uh topic here trustee critchley oh go ahead i'm

[1:01:58] Trustee Critchley (probable): still i still want to ride this one a

[1:02:00] Trustee Critchley (probable): little longer okay um i think i think the takeaway uh is thus far though is that uh at least the two

[1:02:07] Trustee Critchley (probable): of us on denman have concerns about uh the wide open um and at best we're looking at some sort

[1:02:15] Trustee Critchley (probable): of restrictions uh one question i had was from and it relates to the tups in the course of the

[1:02:24] Trustee Critchley (probable): presentation i think um i only mentioned that it's not liked by farmers the tup process okay get that

[1:02:32] Trustee Critchley (probable): and but you also said um we could use quote other tools but i didn't hear what those were and so i

[1:02:40] Trustee Critchley (probable): i'd like to know what other tools are available in place of temporary use permit that we might apply

[1:02:46] Voice 2: i was thinking the citing and use permit um that that um planner mccarter spoke of

[1:02:54] Trustee Critchley (probable): okay okay um then if i could just follow on uh looking at other methods of restriction

[1:03:02] Trustee Critchley (probable): I don't have a good handle for one thing on the size of ALR parcels, could you give me any broad brush info on that, like what is the range of size and kind of the average size, median size?

[1:03:22] Voice 2: I'm just going to share my screen one second.

[1:03:24] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yes, thank you.

[1:03:25] Voice 2: We didn't do a very detailed analysis in that respect.

[1:03:28] Voice 2: when we were looking at the the sizes we were looking more at the residential the r1 and r2s

[1:03:34] Voice 2: because we were talking about restricting intensive agriculture to sizes that were smaller

[1:03:38] Voice 2: but as you can see we did look at the average size and we divided it between crown land and

[1:03:44] Voice 2: privately owned so the privately owned alr parcels the average was about 13 hectares

[1:03:49] Voice 2: there were only 12 parcels greater than 40 hectares that are privately owned and are there

[1:03:59] Trustee Critchley (probable): I'm more concerned about the smaller ones because those are the ones that

[1:04:03] Trustee Critchley (probable): might have more neighbor impacts.

[1:04:07] Trustee Critchley (probable): So do you know what the smallest one would be?

[1:04:12] Voice 2: Hold on one second.

[1:04:13] Trustee Critchley (probable): Maybe smaller than five acres, for example.

[1:04:16] Voice 2: I'm going to share. Yeah. I mean, there's, there are,

[1:04:18] Voice 2: there usually are some funny sized things. Hold on one sec.

[1:04:23] Voice 2: So this is the database.

[1:04:30] Voice 8: Oh gosh.

[1:04:30] Voice 8: Gosh, I think we've lost our, oh, we've lost our consultant, has

[1:04:38] Chair Fast (probable): blinked out of the session.

[1:04:41] Chair Fast (probable): So hopefully she'll try and hook back up with us.

[1:04:45] Chair Fast (probable): Sonia, if you could be watching for her in the waiting room.

[1:04:48] Chair Fast (probable): Yeah, thank you.

[1:04:50] Chair Fast (probable): Here she comes.

[1:04:54] Voice 2: Sorry about that.

[1:04:55] Voice 2: I don't, it seemed to kick me off when I was trying to share my screen.

[1:04:58] Voice 2: I'm going to try again.

[1:05:00] Voice 2: Okay.

[1:05:01] Voice 2: Okay, so this is a database that was provided by the Islands Trust staff, which was great.

[1:05:07] Voice 2: And you can see it's fairly extensive. I was able to look at R1 and R2, for example, what was in the ALR.

[1:05:17] Voice 2: So I was able to do a few analyses. I would have to take a minute to kind of get you that number, though, because it provides every single parcel on the island.

[1:05:28] Voice 2: so I need to do some filtering but you're asking specifically about the smallest parcel in the ALR

[1:05:34] Voice 2: is that right yes

[1:05:36] Trustee Critchley (probable): and just generally the smaller ones because I see that on larger ones you're

[1:05:41] Trustee Critchley (probable): going to have the opportunity to you know hide away tents and and not bug the neighbors and that

[1:05:46] Trustee Critchley (probable): that after all is one of the one of the major concerns is creating nuisance for for neighbors

[1:05:52] Trustee Critchley (probable): because this is a new a new use

[1:05:53] Voice 11: okay

[1:06:00] Voice 2: it's

[1:06:01] Trustee Critchley (probable): something we can look at later but i

[1:06:03] Voice 2: mean you can

[1:06:04] Voice 2: see already there's some that are 0.1 hectares like there are a few really small lots i don't

[1:06:09] Voice 2: know where specifically they are and sometimes as you know there could be one owner of several

[1:06:15] Voice 2: small lots right but they just happen to have funny boundaries within them um so it could be

[1:06:21] Voice 2: that one person owns all of these and they're all right next to each other or something like that

[1:06:25] Voice 2: So it's hard to know just by looking at these numbers in a spreadsheet, what that looks like in real life.

[1:06:32] Voice 2: But yes, there are some lots that are less than one hectare in the ALR.

[1:06:36] Trustee Critchley (probable): Okay. So just thinking out loud here, would one of the restrictions that we might look at then be a minimum lot size where we would allow agritourism?

[1:06:47] Trustee Critchley (probable): And, you know, minimum, I'm not, I don't know, five hectares or something like that?

[1:06:52] Trustee Critchley (probable): the

[1:06:53] Voice 2: smallest lot that has farm tax status is 1.1 hectares and then there's one that's 1.5 hectares

[1:07:03] Voice 2: and then the next smallest one is over three hectares in size it

[1:07:08] Planner McCargar (probable): can be really difficult to

[1:07:09] Planner McCargar (probable): get farm tax status on really small lots

[1:07:12] Chair Fast (probable): yes that's correct and can i also say um

[1:07:17] Chair Fast (probable): um that just because we don't have them now they don't have uh farm tax status doesn't mean they

[1:07:26] Chair Fast (probable): won't change and and get it um especially in that if the property changes hands go ahead trustee

[1:07:33] Chair Fast (probable): we're shaking yeah

[1:07:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i mean we can look at that like i do think you know we're really talking

[1:07:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): about a minority a very small group i think even there's the 38 lots that are have tax status and

[1:07:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): in the ALR and like I do talk to farmers because I'm at the farmer's market and I think right now

[1:07:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): a lot of them are not interested in agritourism because they don't have time but I do think we

[1:07:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): need to look ahead and look at potential but I don't know I kind of think having good some

[1:08:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): reasonable setbacks would take care of that because even if it's a you know even a one

[1:08:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): hectare property it partly depends what's around it but if they want to put a campsite maybe for

[1:08:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for a trailer with a hookup right next to their house

[1:08:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and have the agritourism be that they'd sort of be part

[1:08:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of maybe engaging in the farming or our family meals

[1:08:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and farm fresh products and that kind of thing

[1:08:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and be really like connected to the house.

[1:08:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I don't see that as being problematic.

[1:08:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think it's more about setbacks and number of units.

[1:08:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And we could have different numbers of units

[1:08:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): per size of property,

[1:08:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but I would just limit the number of units.

[1:08:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah it just seems once we're getting like it becomes this sort of um very complex thing with

[1:08:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): certain things on lots of a certain size and certain certain things on another lot it's more

[1:08:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of that stuff for people to understand in what is already complex with understanding what is

[1:09:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): agritourism and what is farm tax status and

[1:09:04] Chair Fast (probable): just for me i've got a question by units you mean

[1:09:06] Chair Fast (probable): tents or cabins yeah yeah okay or like a wall tent on a platform like a glamp yurt tent or whatever

[1:09:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): or rv site or

[1:09:18] Chair Fast (probable): an rv site okay thank you um sorry for my question so i'm just trying to follow along

[1:09:22] Chair Fast (probable): the denman situation uh trustee critchley so

[1:09:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): uh another method of restriction uh possibly

[1:09:31] Trustee Critchley (probable): You can tell me if this is, we could vary from the Agricultural Land Commission regulations and limit the length of stay less than the 30 days that they permit?

[1:09:45] Voice 2: Yeah, you could do

[1:09:46] Voice 2: that. I mean, there's enforcement considerations there, but yes, you could definitely do that.

[1:09:52] Trustee Critchley (probable): Right. Okay.

[1:09:57] Chair Fast (probable): Okay. Where are we at with this now? Have we got a different kind of question? People are writing down their notes and thoughts.

[1:10:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah i'm just writing down things that i think like where i think this will go so when we get

[1:10:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to making motions to try okay so i just so everyone knows i'm gonna ask that staff bring

[1:10:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): forward options and analysis for limiting agricultural skills and accommodation like

[1:10:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): scale and impacts and i don't know where it's gonna go but i'll bring that forward okay thank

[1:10:27] Chair Fast (probable): you yeah i think when you say uh rvs and trailers and uh that kind of thing you bring in a whole

[1:10:33] Chair Fast (probable): different fairy connection aspect as well so yeah

[1:10:39] Chair Fast (probable): um something to consider okay and as soon as i've

[1:10:43] Chair Fast (probable): got another question then um can i while you're writing i've got a quick question can can um can

[1:10:50] Chair Fast (probable): you i only can you quickly remind me what a crown alr parcel is is that like grazing or uh use of

[1:10:58] Voice 2: crown land at least yeah so how actually provincially it's interesting about half of the

[1:11:03] Voice 2: agricultural land reserve is crown land still so all that means is that it's owned by the province

[1:11:08] Voice 2: um there are in some circumstances some crown land alr is leased out for rangeland i'm not sure if

[1:11:16] Voice 2: that's the case on demin i i doubt it that's mostly in the interior in the north and kootenays

[1:11:21] Voice 2: um but a lot of crown land alr tends to fall within parkland so provincial parks are often

[1:11:28] Voice 2: and found in crown land alr for example yeah

[1:11:31] Chair Fast (probable): okay so you don't see it as a issue specific to denman

[1:11:35] Chair Fast (probable): or anything that's okay

[1:11:36] Chair Fast (probable): thank you

[1:11:38] Chair Fast (probable): great good i'll just draw a line through that nice and easy

[1:11:41] Chair Fast (probable): trustee critchley um

[1:11:44] Trustee Critchley (probable): on camping uh tent it mentions tents and cabins what about other rvs like uh like

[1:11:51] Trustee Critchley (probable): trailers or fifth wheels i

[1:11:54] Voice 2: can bring back up the the um the policy that's on the alc website if you

[1:12:00] Voice 2: like it describes it there if i can find it i

[1:12:06] Trustee Critchley (probable): mean a trailer could be a cabin on wheels

[1:12:08] Trustee Critchley (probable): i

[1:12:09] Voice 2: mean they do i believe rvs are listed in there um but again that's up to you you can further

[1:12:17] Voice 2: restrict that so okay i'm

[1:12:20] Chair Fast (probable): going to step away from one minute i can hear somebody calling our really

[1:12:23] Chair Fast (probable): old dog one sec all

[1:12:36] Voice 2: good 10 sleeping units in total including bedrooms for tourist accommodation

[1:12:45] Voice 2: a bedroom or other area used for sleeping located in a residence cabin or other structure

[1:12:51] Voice 2: a vehicle trailer tent or other structure located on a campsite field or other area

[1:12:56] Voice 2: okay

[1:12:59] Voice 7: thanks and

[1:13:01] Chair Fast (probable): would we be uh as the local trust committee would be able to

[1:13:04] Chair Fast (probable): place restrictions on what that sleeping unit could be? Yes. Okay. Thank you. So we could say

[1:13:16] Chair Fast (probable): limit B or whatever.

[1:13:20] Voice 2: Vehicles. Yeah. You could say three campsites, you know,

[1:13:24] Voice 2: tents only or something like that. Okay. Thank you. Planner McCarger.

[1:13:30] Planner McCargar (probable): Sonia just sent me a message

[1:13:32] Planner McCargar (probable): saying uh for an example of the gabriola ltc restrictions they chose to do four campsites

[1:13:38] Planner McCargar (probable): only unserviced no hookups for water septic and i believe there's been no uptake on that

[1:13:45] Planner McCargar (probable): but that is an example of of another ltc and what they chose to do was that gabriola

[1:13:52] Planner McCargar (probable): did you say

[1:13:53] Planner McCargar (probable): that was gabriola yeah thank

[1:13:54] Chair Fast (probable): you that helps me um okay thanks okay trustees what would you uh

[1:14:03] Chair Fast (probable): yes good boy um what would you like to uh ask about next is there a different uh topic that

[1:14:11] Chair Fast (probable): we can move to or should we ask for the planner's report maybe we're ready i

[1:14:19] Trustee Critchley (probable): think there's more to

[1:14:20] Trustee Critchley (probable): discuss here okay

[1:14:21] Chair Fast (probable): um

[1:14:23] Trustee Critchley (probable): because

[1:14:26] Voice 8: i don't know about the state of your ferry go ahead yeah i just

[1:14:31] Trustee Critchley (probable): wanted to touch on the uh r1 r2 intensive agriculture restrictions and you put various

[1:14:39] Trustee Critchley (probable): various options there. I think I favored option two for what that's worth.

[1:14:47] Chair Fast (probable): Which page are

[1:14:48] Trustee Critchley (probable): you on, David?

[1:14:51] Trustee Critchley (probable): And actually, I have my own notes. I'm not on the page.

[1:14:53] Chair Fast (probable): Oh, okay. All right. Thank you.

[1:15:02] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yeah, as far

[1:15:02] Trustee Critchley (probable): as keeping the current definition.

[1:15:04] Chair Fast (probable): We've got, I think we've got it up on the screen. Is this the part?

[1:15:09] Voice 2: Yeah, in terms of

[1:15:10] Voice 2: allowing, so the first option was to look at allowing a maximum number of

[1:15:15] Voice 2: livestock or poultry on those in those zones and then the second one is just to simply restrict it

[1:15:21] Voice 2: based on the size of the parcel yeah

[1:15:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): it just seemed to me that option one was was going to

[1:15:30] Trustee Critchley (probable): be impossible okay

[1:15:32] Chair Fast (probable): thank you trustee bushaken i

[1:15:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): have a question about this but i i also

[1:15:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um am much happier with option two and and actually would consider having that be one hectare

[1:15:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um but yeah it's hard to know um i just i know this was something when we just as when we

[1:15:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): were dealing with this project last term it got some concern about people actually have a some

[1:16:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): element of farming on their smaller lots that helps maybe isn't their full income and chickens

[1:16:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): are mentioned but um we could try it at five acres two hectares and see but the one thing my question

[1:16:12] Trustee Busheikin (probable): is, and I think Gabriela last term tried to deal with this. Is there, like looking at the

[1:16:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): definition of intensive agriculture, it says a commercial enterprise. So is that sufficient

[1:16:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to still allow someone who say has an acre or two acres and they've got a flock of chickens and,

[1:16:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And, you know, for part of the year, they have enough eggs to put at the end of their driveway, or they have enough zucchini to put on a table at the end of their driveway, you know, or raspberries or whatever, like that happens a lot.

[1:16:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): on and it's kind of part of our rural character and it's a little bit of income for people

[1:16:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and I think that there would be support for continuing that so will that be still permitted

[1:17:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): if we went ahead with this?

[1:17:09] Voice 2: Yeah definitely so again with regards to the commercial enterprise

[1:17:14] Voice 2: piece you could take that out if you want I mean it really comes down to the confinement right

[1:17:20] Voice 2: part. So intensive agriculture is what differentiates that between non-intensive

[1:17:26] Voice 2: is confinement of poultry, livestock, or fur-wearing animals, or mushrooms for agricultural

[1:17:35] Voice 2: purposes.

[1:17:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So yeah, but no, I like the commercial enterprise. I think that's important. And I think

[1:17:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the confinement, I get it, but it's tricky because we have mink. You do not have

[1:17:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): have any chickens unless you confine them so everyone who has chickens confines them and so

[1:17:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I'm a little concerned about people saying yeah I've got 20-25 chickens they they're confined

[1:18:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for certain months of the year I've got lots of eggs and I put them at the end of my driveway

[1:18:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and um uh so um or i sell them at the market and um that's my concern and i'm hoping that

[1:18:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that wouldn't be considered a commercial enterprise because it's a very occasional

[1:18:26] Trustee Busheikin (probable): kind of it's it's a very minor it's not their business they're not full-time chicken farmers

[1:18:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): so they wouldn't count as a commercial enterprise but maybe that just doesn't work that easily

[1:18:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but i want to allow that type of small scale usage to

[1:18:43] Voice 2: continue it would and and i think what

[1:18:45] Voice 2: you're talking about would only really impact um those uses outside of the alr because the

[1:18:51] Voice 2: intensive agriculture can't be restricted within the alr so no matter what the lot size is even

[1:18:57] Voice 2: if it's a very small operation they're protected within the alr they're they're they can do

[1:19:03] Voice 2: intensive agriculture so they can use confined barns and

[1:19:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): stuff outside the alr it would really

[1:19:11] Voice 2: just be that r1 and r2 zone we did hear during feedback that there might be a few properties in

[1:19:16] Voice 2: the resource zone but we didn't look at that because that was in the scope of this project

[1:19:20] Voice 2: i think there's only a dozen properties within the resource zone anyway um so but that's why we

[1:19:26] Voice 2: started to zero in on r1 and r2 because there's no ability to restrict intensive agriculture

[1:19:31] Voice 2: within the ALR. So we started to look outside. We didn't hear specifically from anyone in these

[1:19:37] Voice 2: zones who stated that they had a farm that they felt would be threatened by this. So that was

[1:19:45] Voice 2: interesting. We did hear that there were concerns that intensive agriculture on these small lots

[1:19:53] Voice 2: would have impacts on neighbors, potentially negative impacts in terms of manure management

[1:19:59] Voice 2: for one so odors and manure management certainly you could do a hybrid approach like you could do

[1:20:08] Voice 2: something that combines option one and two you could say something like intensive agriculture

[1:20:13] Voice 2: is allowed only on properties over one or two hectares and anything below that can only have

[1:20:17] Voice 2: a maximum of 20 chickens or something like that right it just because you could get into this

[1:20:24] Voice 2: this real rabbit hole, though, of trying to make this so tailored to the specific situations.

[1:20:31] Voice 2: In some respects, it might be easier to just put down a regulation, a restriction, and then anyone

[1:20:37] Voice 2: who doesn't fall within it in needs of variance could potentially apply, right, for some flexibility

[1:20:43] Voice 2: if required, and also to grandfather in those that currently exist.

[1:20:49] Chair Fast (probable): I'm going to just chime in

[1:20:51] Chair Fast (probable): here to say um it seems to me that roosters would be more of an issue than 10 or 20 or 40 chickens

[1:21:00] Chair Fast (probable): because sometimes you have 40 when you've got your old hens and you're bringing in your new chicks

[1:21:05] Chair Fast (probable): and uh or your you know things are reproducing I um uh I wonder you mentioned odor and uh manure

[1:21:19] Chair Fast (probable): newer um noise is another one here is there do you have any comments about was that a factor

[1:21:26] Chair Fast (probable): that you came up you used to get into the option one and option two

[1:21:30] Voice 2: it didn't come up really to be

[1:21:32] Voice 2: honest it's an issue but i know like when i'm thinking about different communities i've worked

[1:21:36] Voice 2: in with urban agricultural planning and policy that rooster restriction definitely comes up

[1:21:41] Voice 2: there tends to be like a bees and chickens kind of policy where you're allowed so many honeybee

[1:21:47] Voice 2: beehives and so many layer chickens on your property if you're in an urban area so that's a

[1:21:52] Voice 2: that's an approach that you could take for r1 in particular where r1 lots tend to be smaller

[1:21:58] Voice 2: thank you that's

[1:22:00] Chair Fast (probable): what i was wondering about okay trustee critchley thank

[1:22:09] Trustee Critchley (probable): you um i don't know

[1:22:11] Trustee Critchley (probable): strictly on the intensive agriculture restrictions but um the the matter of the resource zone

[1:22:18] Trustee Critchley (probable): zone and it not being within the scope of this I know some people have contacted me and said well

[1:22:22] Trustee Critchley (probable): you know why it should be you know we're dealing with agriculture and so forth but it's not clear

[1:22:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): to me what and it's been suggested that it would be followed up in a subsequent project

[1:22:36] Trustee Critchley (probable): which isn't a great comfort because of the length of our projects less than how long it takes to get

[1:22:41] Trustee Critchley (probable): to these things but uh what if what would we be looking at in terms of resource zone and

[1:22:49] Trustee Critchley (probable): agriculture is there any any tweaks that we can do without um you know spending a massive amount

[1:22:56] Trustee Critchley (probable): of time to uh tweak that part of the bylaw for the benefit of agriculture um

[1:23:04] Voice 2: well i'm just i

[1:23:06] Voice 2: was just going back to that spreadsheet and assuming that the spreadsheet is accurate

[1:23:10] Voice 2: there's only um you

[1:23:14] Trustee Critchley (probable): said eight eight parcels yeah

[1:23:16] Voice 2: eight total but i only see one here that's listed

[1:23:20] Voice 2: in the alr and is resource so is it a matter of if did you want to look at all resource slots the

[1:23:28] Voice 2: way we looked at r1 and r2 so like even if they're not in the alr kind of thing that's

[1:23:33] Trustee Critchley (probable): what i was

[1:23:34] Trustee Critchley (probable): was thinking that that seemed to be the uh the thrust of the the complaint as it were yeah all

[1:23:42] Trustee Critchley (probable): right

[1:23:42] Voice 2: it just means looking at the project through a different lens because i think

[1:23:47] Voice 2: resource zone is typically larger lots so the reason we were looking at rural residential is

[1:23:53] Voice 2: because they're typically smaller lots right and so we're trying to figure out if there would be

[1:23:57] Voice 2: a lot of potentially potential neighbor disturbances with intensive agriculture

[1:24:03] Voice 2: on these you can see the smallest one is 2.6 hectares so it's above that two hectare cut off

[1:24:10] Voice 2: anyway for resource and then one of them is really big yeah the rest are all kind of yeah this size

[1:24:19] Voice 2: we

[1:24:20] Trustee Critchley (probable): don't have any restriction on agriculture it would be a permitted activity within the

[1:24:26] Trustee Critchley (probable): resource zone as it stands correct and that's

[1:24:29] Voice 2: correct and that's also something that i wanted

[1:24:31] Voice 2: to bring up in reference to the last comment and question like when i was saying you know you could

[1:24:35] Voice 2: still allow honeybees and and layer chickens like my understanding is that agriculture is still an

[1:24:39] Voice 2: accessory use in r1 and r2 but intensive agriculture isn't so that's really the only distinction so

[1:24:45] Voice 2: people in residential areas can still have a garden and they can still you know have a certain

[1:24:50] Voice 2: amount of of livestock as long as it's not intensive it's that confinement piece again

[1:24:55] Voice 2: that comes up but with respect to the resource question i'm not privy to what those concerns were

[1:25:01] Voice 2: other than that perhaps they felt omitted from the project but if there are specific issues that was

[1:25:07] Voice 2: concerning them i didn't hear that through the survey so okay

[1:25:10] Voice 9: okay

[1:25:14] Chair Fast (probable): great thank you sorry now

[1:25:16] Chair Fast (probable): Now we're all writing notes.

[1:25:17] Chair Fast (probable): Okay, thank you.

[1:25:18] Chair Fast (probable): And that helps.

[1:25:23] Chair Fast (probable): And where do we go from here then?

[1:25:26] Chair Fast (probable): What's the next set of questions?

[1:25:28] Chair Fast (probable): Or do we want to move on to the planner's report and have more discussion through the more specific recommendations that are in Marla's report starting on page 30?

[1:25:45] Trustee Critchley (probable): Well, I'd like to just continue on with these that I've got in front of me.

[1:25:48] Trustee Critchley (probable): The other area that wasn't touched on was on water courses and setbacks from water courses.

[1:25:55] Trustee Critchley (probable): And that was, it surprised me that we haven't proceeded on that because there seemed to be one of the most overwhelming votes of support for doing that.

[1:26:09] Trustee Critchley (probable): either people who were enthusiastic or or needed to learn a bit more but it's a relatively smaller

[1:26:18] Trustee Critchley (probable): proportion that we're not wanting to do that and since we are on a trust island and water courses

[1:26:26] Trustee Critchley (probable): are extremely important from the environmental point of view I would have thought that getting

[1:26:31] Trustee Critchley (probable): to these setbacks would be one of the key things in fact it's mentioned in the list of things that

[1:26:38] Trustee Critchley (probable): we were inquiring about and directing the project too as far as i recall so why aren't we doing that

[1:26:45] Trustee Critchley (probable): and can we do it what you know why is it so difficult to um to grasp that and just go ahead

[1:26:53] Trustee Critchley (probable): with it

[1:26:54] Voice 2: ioni yeah sure so we wanted to provide um a bit of information to the public just to

[1:27:03] Voice 2: canvass them but if you go back to the project charter so the water issues management was

[1:27:10] Voice 2: specifically listed as out of scope as were things like cannabis designation of new dpas etc

[1:27:16] Voice 2: but because it had come up so much in the previous round of engagement we felt it would still be wise

[1:27:22] Voice 2: to at least get a sense of whether or not the issue was still relevant and live and therefore

[1:27:27] Voice 2: four would still need to have a large focus um for next you know stages of the ocp and land use

[1:27:33] Voice 2: bylaw review so we weren't tasked with getting into that level of detail but we did want to make

[1:27:38] Voice 2: sure that it was still a relevant um topic and so we did get confirmation that it was a relevant

[1:27:43] Voice 2: topic um in particular we were curious to know based on the fact that provincially rules had

[1:27:50] Voice 2: recently changed so i mentioned the agricultural environmental management code of practice there's

[1:27:54] Voice 2: quite a lot now of regulatory setbacks that are in place for agriculture but we felt that it would

[1:28:01] Voice 2: be helpful to inform you as decision makers as to whether or not to include it in your next round

[1:28:05] Voice 2: of review for the OCP and land use bylaw and development permit areas too.

[1:28:13] Trustee Critchley (probable): Okay so setback

[1:28:14] Trustee Critchley (probable): from water courses is regarded as being a water issue management then?

[1:28:19] Voice 2: Yeah you'll see that I did

[1:28:20] Voice 2: include like some because it was in the previous OCP and land use bylaw changes for the previous

[1:28:27] Voice 2: consideration of this project around the chickadee lake and other areas i did provide some some

[1:28:33] Voice 2: wordsmithing to take out um in feedlots for example and just replace it with agriculture

[1:28:38] Voice 2: but that's to your discretion um that's page 25

[1:28:41] Voice 2: page 25 of our agenda yeah so that's just trying

[1:28:45] Voice 2: to align again with the provincial rules at this point um but if you feel like that's premature

[1:28:50] Voice 2: then we can just take that out i like those

[1:28:58] Trustee Critchley (probable): premature but i think yeah i

[1:29:02] Chair Fast (probable): was just going

[1:29:03] Chair Fast (probable): going to say i like those suggestions i mean replace feedlot with agriculture for the chickadee

[1:29:08] Chair Fast (probable): and graham lake setbacks it seems practical uh and simple and

[1:29:16] Voice 2: it's typically with buildings and

[1:29:18] Voice 2: structures i do want to make that clear we're not talking about preventing cows from walking around

[1:29:22] Voice 2: it's it's more like if you're putting in a new structure so it could be a manure tank it could

[1:29:28] Voice 2: be a barn it could be an agricultural storage building it's to ensure that those setbacks are

[1:29:33] Voice 2: in place for those structures. Great, thank

[1:29:37] Chair Fast (probable): you. Does that fit what you are thinking of, David Critchley?

[1:29:44] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yeah, I'm fine with the suggested changes, but I'm still uncomfortable with the idea that we have

[1:29:48] Trustee Critchley (probable): kind of blasted past the setbacks from watercourses, which to me seem to be

[1:29:54] Trustee Critchley (probable): of the essence when dealing with agriculture and also with preserve and protect mandates.

[1:30:00] Trustee Critchley (probable): So I'm concerned about putting that off to another day, which, of course, will be another year, maybe another decade.

[1:30:12] Trustee Critchley (probable): Who knows?

[1:30:13] Trustee Critchley (probable): You know, if we have inadequate protections from our water courses because of inadequate setbacks, then I think that's something we should grapple with with priority.

[1:30:26] Chair Fast (probable): Trustee Boucherkin?

[1:30:27] Chair Fast (probable): can

[1:30:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um we have a question for clarification it's kind of important can you speak a little

[1:30:34] Chair Fast (probable): when i

[1:30:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah oh sorry i just the sound of this computer i have to lean into it um uh so when i

[1:30:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): look at the suggested amendment i do see that it has actually increased the setback um from 15 to

[1:30:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): 30 so i was very confused that the the consultant report said let's deal with this in a more like a

[1:30:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): in a different context and yet when i read it it actually has an increase from 15 to 30

[1:31:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for buildings and structures associated with um with agriculture so um

[1:31:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that sounds

[1:31:13] Chair Fast (probable): like a question so

[1:31:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): are we like the suggestion from staff and i guess this is for

[1:31:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for Planner McCarver, are you, am I understanding this right, that the current bylaw we have before

[1:31:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): us does actually increase setbacks? I'm looking

[1:31:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): at page 66, 1.7, part two.

[1:31:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Thank you for the page number.

[1:31:40] Chair Fast (probable): I was going to scroll madly.

[1:31:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): 66? I mean, it's there twice,

[1:31:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Twice, I think, I'm one with track changes, but yes, 66.

[1:31:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): 1.7 part two, the minimum setback from the natural boundary of a streamer like other

[1:31:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): than Chickadee or Graham or wetland is.

[1:31:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And the second bullet is for buildings and structures associated with agriculture.

[1:32:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And I'm pretty sure in the current LUB, it's 15 and we haven't, or there's a suggestion

[1:32:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to increase it to 30.

[1:32:10] Planner McCargar (probable): So the one that you're looking at is the bylaw that was given first reading back in 2018.

[1:32:16] Planner McCargar (probable): And are you asking what the regulations are in the current bylaw?

[1:32:21] Planner McCargar (probable): So that's the bylaw from 2018, given first reading.

[1:32:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Oh, okay.

[1:32:26] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Oh.

[1:32:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Hours preparing for this meeting,

[1:32:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): thinking that was the bylaw we're being asked to consider.

[1:32:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Amazing.

[1:32:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): No, it is.

[1:32:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I will do my best.

[1:32:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So is that not in the current bylaw?

[1:32:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So where is the current bylaw of what we're actually considering today?

[1:32:43] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I

[1:32:44] Voice 2: think you're correct, Trustee Bouchine,

[1:32:46] Voice 2: but i didn't change any of the meters those were already in there from the first reading

[1:32:50] Voice 2: from

[1:32:51] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the first reading but if we're not considering changing it they shouldn't be in there

[1:32:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for what we're considering today unless we want to change it because i don't think they're in our

[1:33:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): current land use bylaw but yeah i

[1:33:06] Voice 2: just now i'm confused about what bylaw is which right no i

[1:33:10] Voice 2: see what you're saying i mean i did go through it and i did note that and i i went and back and

[1:33:16] Voice 2: checked with the agricultural environmental management code of practice so that's what

[1:33:20] Voice 2: this table is here so you can see here that they're suggesting that most agricultural activities if

[1:33:26] Voice 2: it's near a water source does meet 30 meters and if it's other water courses that aren't necessarily

[1:33:31] Voice 2: a drinking water source that it could go down to 15 meters for some but still

[1:33:36] Voice 2: the 30 is there for

[1:33:37] Voice 2: quite a lot so it depends i mean we could put in language just to say that it needs to meet

[1:33:42] Voice 2: this particular provincial um code of practice um like that because the codes of practice can

[1:33:53] Voice 2: change right yeah i mean the local government would be able to be more restrictive so they

[1:33:59] Voice 2: would be able to provide greater setbacks but not not less not smaller setbacks i

[1:34:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): mean we can

[1:34:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i'm just but then we should be really clear when we're putting out material for ourselves or the

[1:34:12] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the public it right now it's very confusing because we actually are proposing to increase

[1:34:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): setbacks but the but it kind of can look like we are saying we're not doing it so let's just

[1:34:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): be clear about what we're doing because the current only has setback it has setbacks for

[1:34:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): intensive agriculture of 30 meters but not for agriculture generally and those are different

[1:34:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): different things. So, um, yeah, I, um, I don't mind, like I, I, in theory, of course, supported,

[1:34:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I'm just worried about really farms that have those wetlands that maybe that's going to close

[1:34:54] Trustee Busheikin (probable): them down. I just remember hearing some real concerns from, from people who are running like

[1:34:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): historic farms on Denman that have some wetlands. So we could put this forward and see, um,

[1:35:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): what people say, but then let's just be clear that we are suggesting a change in setbacks

[1:35:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): because it's right now agriculture to all agriculture.

[1:35:18] Voice 2: So right now, if, if it's kept

[1:35:20] Voice 2: at fifth, so you're saying the current one is 15. The first reading one was moved to 30. If we keep

[1:35:25] Voice 2: it at 15, it will be in violation potentially for some of these things. That's the problem now.

[1:35:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Right. Well then let's keep it at 30 and see what people say. I mean, I'm okay with that. I just,

[1:35:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah but i wanted us to be clear so we shouldn't be saying oh we're not changing any setbacks

[1:35:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): because we actually are so you know we shouldn't be under promising people who are concerned about

[1:35:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the environmental integrity of the wetlands and we shouldn't be over promising farmers

[1:35:53] Voice 2: no that's a that's a good comment so if the objective though was to align with provincial

[1:35:58] Voice 2: like i'm just going back to that um charter like if we were set to align the current lub with

[1:36:04] Voice 2: with provincial rules and regulations,

[1:36:06] Voice 2: then does it make sense to just do,

[1:36:10] Voice 2: as I previously suggested,

[1:36:11] Voice 2: which is just to point to the code of practice

[1:36:13] Voice 2: and say that farms on the island

[1:36:16] Voice 2: aren't expected to meet that?

[1:36:21] Chair Fast (probable): I like that idea

[1:36:22] Chair Fast (probable): because it's an educational kind of approach,

[1:36:25] Chair Fast (probable): but go ahead, Trustee Christian.

[1:36:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): I'm concerned about that point because yeah,

[1:36:31] Trustee Critchley (probable): they can change from underneath us

[1:36:33] Trustee Critchley (probable): and we don't have any control over it.

[1:36:35] Trustee Critchley (probable): That's a little bothersome,

[1:36:36] Trustee Critchley (probable): but also uh i'm always concerned when i hear code of practice does that have any legal consequence

[1:36:42] Trustee Critchley (probable): you know is it is it advisory or is it compulsory it's

[1:36:46] Voice 2: in the regulations under the ministry of

[1:36:49] Voice 2: environment environmental management act it's a new regulation and it replaces the agricultural

[1:36:53] Voice 2: waste control regulation that was in effect until 2019 so it does have yeah yeah and

[1:37:00] Trustee Critchley (probable): could our bylaw

[1:37:03] Trustee Critchley (probable): people enforce it presumably if it's in our bylaw just by reference i

[1:37:10] Voice 2: mean it's it is a provincial

[1:37:12] Voice 2: rule and regulation so i'm not sure what your you know right like roles and responsibilities are to

[1:37:18] Voice 2: that effect um the other thing that informed when i was doing this work was this um policy statement

[1:37:24] Voice 2: the 2021 policy statement so i'm not sure if you're familiar with it for um the islands trust

[1:37:30] Voice 2: but there is a whole section on agricultural land stewardship policies i didn't put in these

[1:37:34] Voice 2: highlights. It was like this when I found it. But there is a part in here about legislation

[1:37:40] Voice 2: guidelines and incentives are established to support local farmers in adopting the highest

[1:37:44] Voice 2: standards of environmental protection of ecosystems, wildlife habitats, etc. So I did

[1:37:50] Voice 2: look to that when I was putting some of this together and hence like taking out, you know,

[1:37:54] Voice 2: feedlots and things like that. There is a lot of direction here around supporting small scale,

[1:37:59] Voice 2: scale regenerative diverse agriculture and protecting the environment um so i think you're

[1:38:04] Voice 2: on solid ground i guess is what i'm saying if you do want to if you do want to submit the 30 meter

[1:38:10] Voice 2: um but a way around it would be just to point to the code of practice i

[1:38:15] Chair Fast (probable): like your point points

[1:38:16] Chair Fast (probable): about the code of practice and i'll just point out that this uh islands trust policy statement

[1:38:21] Chair Fast (probable): is a draft so far

[1:38:23] Chair Fast (probable): and it's in front of trust council but uh point well taken it's great to

[1:38:28] Chair Fast (probable): look at it in this context um okay great and uh i think that's i didn't realize that the code of

[1:38:35] Chair Fast (probable): practice was only 2019 and that it was actually regulations so that's very helpful thank you

[1:38:41] Chair Fast (probable): um okay next questions for the for the planner i think we're getting a sense of how uh people

[1:38:49] Chair Fast (probable): want to go is there yeah i

[1:38:54] Trustee Busheikin (probable): have like a map i

[1:38:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): know i'm sure that the papers are exploding

[1:39:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i've got an ipad i've got notes and i'm like and i'm a brain that's trying to hold it all together

[1:39:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): so just if i can pause for a minute how

[1:39:10] Chair Fast (probable): about we take a five minute break everybody would you like

[1:39:14] Chair Fast (probable): to i don't think i need to no i'm not seeing anybody going being excited about that so let's

[1:39:21] Chair Fast (probable): i'll just skip it that was an offer i

[1:39:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): can't hear you

[1:39:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): laura yep i have a question about death the

[1:39:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): definitions is that okay can we move on from the setbacks at this point okay um so definitions so

[1:39:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i'm looking at for me page 65 of schedule one which i think has the recommended changes in it

[1:39:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um and um uh so

[1:39:54] Voice 7: this is just um oh no

[1:39:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i'm not on that page i'm sorry um well while i'm

[1:40:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): like actually a kind of copy editing or a type thing in 1.3 part one administration definitions

[1:40:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): a point two i think there's words meaning i think it has to say agritourism accommodation

[1:40:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Accommodation means agritourism accommodation as defined by the Agricultural Land Use Regulation.

[1:40:23] Trustee Busheikin (probable): That's how the definition above works structurally.

[1:40:26] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So maybe someone could take a note of that.

[1:40:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Somebody

[1:40:30] Chair Fast (probable): going to check that.

[1:40:32] Chair Fast (probable): That's between the one I and the two little I's, right?

[1:40:35] Chair Fast (probable): How do you say those little I's?

[1:40:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I, I, I, I, I.

[1:40:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Okay, I agree.

[1:40:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): But no, it's part of I, I.

[1:40:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay okay just i have to find the right note in my notes i will it has to do with the definition

[1:40:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of agriculture we can't hear you um on page 65 yep okay yes so no no well maybe i mean i i need

[1:41:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): like a 15 second break so why don't you guys do something else and i'll find my

[1:41:38] Voice 7: okay i can't find

[1:41:39] Voice 7: find my note. It's very

[1:41:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): annoying. I'll have to find it later. Okay.

[1:41:44] Chair Fast (probable): Just want to point out,

[1:41:45] Chair Fast (probable): we've got about 45 minutes left in the scheduled meeting and we've got that one little topic at

[1:41:50] Chair Fast (probable): the end. If we can get to the big, to all those recommendations.

[1:41:58] Trustee Critchley (probable): Oh, just as a filler, I can

[1:42:00] Trustee Critchley (probable): just point out, by the way, I think in the statistics of the amount, the proportion of

[1:42:07] Trustee Critchley (probable): of ALR lands parcels with farm tax status.

[1:42:11] Trustee Critchley (probable): It said it's 22%, I think it's 23%.

[1:42:15] Voice 10: Okay.

[1:42:16] Trustee Critchley (probable): Let's try to figure out where it came from.

[1:42:19] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yeah, that's it.

[1:42:20] Voice 9: Okay.

[1:42:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Okay, I found the note.

[1:42:26] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I found

[1:42:27] Voice 7: the note, I

[1:42:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): couldn't find it.

[1:42:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): It is on page

[1:42:30] Voice 9: 65. Go ahead,

[1:42:30] Voice 9: which page are you on?

[1:42:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): 65.

[1:42:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Uh-huh.

[1:42:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I'm looking at the definition of agriculture.

[1:42:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): culture. I like this direction, but I have a question. The current definition explicitly

[1:42:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): excludes forest practices, breeding of pets, operating a kennel, or an equestrian stable.

[1:42:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Those are explicitly excluded. If we move to this definition, could those then potentially be

[1:43:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): included you mean you would like to

[1:43:05] Chair Fast (probable): add those in sorry go ahead i'm not sure okay

[1:43:09] Voice 2: let's hear from

[1:43:10] Voice 2: the consultant first go ahead ioni it depends how you want to go like the there are certain

[1:43:15] Voice 2: some of those uses are not allowed in the alr anyway like what i noted is that in the previous

[1:43:20] Voice 2: iteration one of the uses that was permitted in the a zone um was like large scale forestry

[1:43:27] Voice 2: operation mills and things like that and that's actually not an allowable use anymore under the

[1:43:32] Voice 2: ALC so that's why I suggested taking that out so some of those are I think dealt with anyways just

[1:43:37] Voice 2: based on what is allowable uses in the ALR but if there are specific additional restrictions like I

[1:43:43] Voice 2: know kennels I think are allowed to up to a certain size in the ALR so if you're saying that kennels

[1:43:50] Voice 2: are not to be allowed at all on Denman in the ALR then that would need to be added as a restriction

[1:43:54] Voice 2: protection

[1:44:00] Voice 8: but we allow do

[1:44:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): we not allow agriculture in all zones not just in the alr so we do need to

[1:44:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): think about that yes

[1:44:13] Voice 2: but what i'm saying is that most of the a zone is in the alr so yes

[1:44:16] Voice 2: in but

[1:44:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i believe agriculture is is allowed in in in every single zone except maybe resource

[1:44:23] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i believe

[1:44:24] Trustee Busheikin (probable): agriculture is if you look at those tables right it's

[1:44:27] Planner McCargar (probable): it's like every zone yeah as

[1:44:29] Planner McCargar (probable): As an accessory use in residential and many, yes, you're correct, many zones allow agriculture.

[1:44:40] Voice 2: But I wouldn't think by changing this definition that it would explicitly mean that now forestry operations are allowed.

[1:44:47] Voice 2: Like when I looked at those exceptions, I didn't really understand why they were explicitly listed as exceptions anyway.

[1:44:54] Voice 2: way because to me they don't connotate agriculture but okay it's a word it's a worthy discussion to

[1:44:59] Voice 2: have if you have a suggestion i

[1:45:01] Trustee Busheikin (probable): mean there was an issue with someone having a pet breeding operation

[1:45:04] Trustee Busheikin (probable): in a in a residential area that was quite a a messy situation for neighbors and um because it

[1:45:11] Trustee Busheikin (probable): was specifically excluded from agriculture then by law enforcement could move forward

[1:45:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): word um but i don't want to make it wordy and you know and then once you mention one thing then

[1:45:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): do you mention all the things so um and

[1:45:32] Chair Fast (probable): we do from from the participants in the public that

[1:45:36] Chair Fast (probable): they wanted it shorter and concise right this definition is that what we heard from the public

[1:45:43] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yes

[1:45:43] Chair Fast (probable): okay thank you

[1:45:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah okay well i i don't know what to do with that i'm going to think about it

[1:45:49] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay great another question as

[1:45:57] Chair Fast (probable): we droop in the heat i

[1:45:59] Voice 8: wonder

[1:46:06] Chair Fast (probable): if other questions will come up as

[1:46:09] Chair Fast (probable): we go into the um planners report and go start going through the details or if you've got more

[1:46:15] Chair Fast (probable): things on your

[1:46:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): list by all means uh just to clarify like everything i'm talking about is

[1:46:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): based on having studied the planners report and looking at the recommendations there so

[1:46:25] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So yeah, supportive material. And it's so like, it's very much like I'm also responding to the

[1:46:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): report from Ione, definitely, but I'm already well into, you know, what the content of the

[1:46:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): planners report, because it took me down that path.

[1:46:43] Chair Fast (probable): Yes, I

[1:46:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): thought that's what I was supposed

[1:46:45] Chair Fast (probable): to do. I'm just asking, because we're getting moments of silence, whether there would be a

[1:46:50] Chair Fast (probable): different something different to happen in the meeting that would be better but i'm not hearing

[1:46:55] Chair Fast (probable): that instead i'm seeing trustees deep in the studying

[1:46:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah for me it's just really keeping

[1:47:01] Trustee Busheikin (probable): track of my my messy notes and i'm notes on my ipad notes on paper so i have one more question

[1:47:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and i mean and then maybe what we're going to go to we can look at the planner's report but to me

[1:47:12] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that means we're going to start looking at what we want to do um so i have a question if you look

[1:47:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): at page again i'm working with that one um the the not track changes version so on page 70

[1:47:26] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of the lub proposal um and this is noted here in the comment i'm looking at 1.2.3 in the whole

[1:47:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): temporary use permit section uh that since we're not at least thus far talking about requiring a

[1:47:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): temporary use permit for agritourism accommodation and this is the comment says it will need to be

[1:47:49] Trustee Busheikin (probable): moved to another section of the lub that also uh it totally connects to what we already talked

[1:47:54] Trustee Busheikin (probable): about that is we're not requiring tups you know there's all these guidelines how will those

[1:48:01] Trustee Busheikin (probable): guidelines continue to be relevant and where would all this go so and i don't know if anyone

[1:48:09] Trustee Busheikin (probable): can answer that today but that's my question i

[1:48:12] Planner McCargar (probable): don't know if i can fully answer it today but i

[1:48:14] Planner McCargar (probable): have given it a little bit of thought and depending on the direction we go today i would come back at

[1:48:21] Planner McCargar (probable): the next meeting with some suggestions but it would likely have to go into the the zone table

[1:48:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah you know

[1:48:30] Planner McCargar (probable): it wouldn't fit under the tup but how best um we could incorporate that i'd have

[1:48:35] Planner McCargar (probable): to look a little it can be a bit tricky with the zoning tables the laid out the way they are but

[1:48:40] Planner McCargar (probable): we'd have to find the best way to fit it in.

[1:48:43] Planner McCargar (probable): Okay, yeah, that's fair.

[1:48:45] Planner McCargar (probable): That makes sense.

[1:48:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Okay, I don't think

[1:48:49] Chair Fast (probable): I have more questions.

[1:48:52] Chair Fast (probable): Okay, Trustee Critchley has one.

[1:48:54] Chair Fast (probable): Go ahead, Trustee.

[1:48:56] Trustee Critchley (probable): Thank you.

[1:48:57] Trustee Critchley (probable): So in regard to secondary dwellings,

[1:49:01] Trustee Critchley (probable): I'd be interested to know what other islands

[1:49:03] Trustee Critchley (probable): have been doing in terms of whether they're just adopting

[1:49:09] Trustee Critchley (probable): adopting the thing 100% from the ALR point of view, or whether they are adding in other

[1:49:17] Trustee Critchley (probable): restrictions such as minimum lot sizes for that or other forms of restrictions. I mean, I'm

[1:49:25] Trustee Critchley (probable): interested in exploring the possibilities or at least thinking about the restrictions that we

[1:49:31] Trustee Critchley (probable): might put on that instead of just having it across the board.

[1:49:36] Voice 2: So because this is such a new change,

[1:49:38] Voice 2: So the ALC's rules only changed a few months ago on this. And in fact, this only came into force, I believe, in December or comes into force this December. Most of the local governments are still contemplating how they're going to tackle it. And I don't actually know of any that have passed, made a resolution to change anything specifically yet.

[1:49:57] Voice 2: But having done similar work for the Cowichan Valley Regional District, the City of Delta, Regional District of Fraser Fort George, South Kootenay, so Kootenay Boundary, pretty much every community that I'm working in right now are planning to be as lenient as provincially possible with it.

[1:50:20] Voice 10: Okay.

[1:50:21] Voice 10: But if

[1:50:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): there were to be restrictions, I've suggested minimum size since we do have quite a diverse range of sizes in the ALR parcels non-demand.

[1:50:40] Trustee Critchley (probable): But are there other things that come to mind in the way in which we might restrict this?

[1:50:46] Voice 2: well in the past um just as a reminder there was an allowable use that the ALC did allow

[1:50:52] Voice 2: like a mobile home or manufactured home as long as you could prove that it was either

[1:50:56] Voice 2: a direct family member living there or a farm worker so essentially what this does is remove

[1:51:03] Voice 2: the criteria for who can live there and so previously you were allowed even if you had a

[1:51:10] Voice 2: small lot to put that secondary dwelling, as long as it was a certain type of housing. So

[1:51:15] Voice 2: manufactured home or mobile home, as long as it was used for a certain person. So this doesn't

[1:51:19] Voice 2: change the landscape in that regard necessarily, but what it does do is open up that use for all

[1:51:26] Voice 2: ALR lots, not just those who needed the farm work or who had a family member. There are specific

[1:51:32] Voice 2: criteria on the size of that dwelling. So if your lot is under 40 hectares, that dwelling can only

[1:51:38] Voice 2: be 90 square meters um and essentially that is a that's a manufactured home like it was to go

[1:51:45] Voice 2: along that line um yes you could put in extra restrictions what we heard from the community

[1:51:51] Voice 2: is that the only restrictions they were interested in seeing was adequate water and septic or

[1:51:57] Voice 2: equivalent though there wasn't a strong desire to see a lot size restrictions for the secondary

[1:52:03] Voice 2: dwellings in the ALR okay

[1:52:05] Chair Fast (probable): thank you and I see two hands go up I'm going to go to the planner first

[1:52:09] Chair Fast (probable): Laura go ahead uh Marlis yeah

[1:52:12] Planner McCargar (probable): I can just share that um Gabriola chose a two hectare minimum

[1:52:17] Planner McCargar (probable): lot size for secondary dwellings and so they will still have to update the rules but

[1:52:23] Planner McCargar (probable): it's anticipated that they'll keep with the two hectare and it's also consistent with other

[1:52:28] Planner McCargar (probable): uh secondary suite regulations for other zones thank

[1:52:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): you uh trustee bushaken yeah it's a question

[1:52:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just to understand how things you know have been changing um in the past uh when the alr allowed

[1:52:45] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the secondary dwellings for direct family or farm workers uh was that only on farms with tax status

[1:52:57] Voice 2: no okay not for for farm workers yes but i think for family members no i'll go back and double

[1:53:04] Voice 2: check that but i think there was some nuance there but this definitely opens it up so that

[1:53:08] Voice 2: you could be you don't have to have farm tax status anymore right that was my next next question

[1:53:12] Voice 2: okay

[1:53:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um okay um yeah i don't have any questions about it i have some ideas

[1:53:23] Trustee Critchley (probable): trustee chrisley

[1:53:26] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yeah, I know one of the ways this is being welcomed was that it would be a source of affordable housing.

[1:53:35] Trustee Critchley (probable): I'm not that optimistic about that, but I suppose it would be possible that we could put in a requirement

[1:53:46] Trustee Critchley (probable): that um secondary dwellings only be sort of rent restricted uh like apartments in new york city or

[1:53:56] Trustee Critchley (probable): something like that we could put some affordability restrictions there i'm not sure that that will

[1:54:03] Trustee Critchley (probable): probably destroy any incentive for uh private people to to build these things but is it is

[1:54:10] Trustee Critchley (probable): it theoretically possible honestly

[1:54:13] Voice 2: i don't know it's that's not really within the realm of my

[1:54:17] Voice 2: expertise but um maybe planner mccarver has some examples from other communities but i'm not sure

[1:54:22] Voice 2: about rent restrictions in the alr i

[1:54:25] Chair Fast (probable): think you'd have to have a housing agreement wouldn't you

[1:54:27] Chair Fast (probable): to be able to and that would have to have been through some kind of big process yeah i see

[1:54:37] Voice 5: sonja zupanets joined us only to clarify that the secondary dwellings couldn't be subdivided

[1:54:44] Voice 5: off as a separate real estate entity so they really do address the gap in your housing

[1:54:49] Voice 5: spectrum on denman island of very little rental housing and that's a significant it may not be

[1:54:56] Voice 5: what you would consider affordable in terms of rent control but it does potentially address that

[1:55:00] Voice 5: gap currently in your housing spectrum of not having sufficient just rental housing

[1:55:06] Chair Fast (probable): if it wasn't family it would or a farm worker as part of a deal it would be rental only really

[1:55:13] Chair Fast (probable): practically okay any any of

[1:55:15] Voice 5: those secondary dwellings unless the property or the parcel

[1:55:19] Voice 5: was purchased by multiple owners then it's a different story but um you know theoretically

[1:55:24] Voice 5: those are those are rental secondary dwellings adding to that trustee

[1:55:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): was shaken yeah that

[1:55:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): question is one i've been asking since long before i was a trustee even but mainly as a trustee

[1:55:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and um you know given that we've gotten ourselves into a housing crisis all over canada and the

[1:55:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the world, the question is ever more pressing. And I, I, anyone has any control over these things?

[1:55:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I, my understanding is there is no way zoning can require that rent be affordable. It's just

[1:56:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): impossible. And I think, you know, or even that generally that rental housing be used for

[1:56:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): affordable housing only without using housing agreements, which are too cumbersome, unless they

[1:56:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): could be reimagined as something less cumbersome. Anyway, I think it's something that not just us,

[1:56:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but the whole province and country needs to have in place. But I'm not running for

[1:56:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): provincial legislature, so I can't make it happen. But just a question for Marlis or Sonia.

[1:56:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Um, there is now recently a provision that to allow a specific rental type of zoning,

[1:56:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): which then at least would preclude people saying, God, I'd like a nice guest cottage.

[1:56:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): And then all you're doing is driving up the value of property in the ALR, which is actually

[1:56:57] Trustee Busheikin (probable): was explained to me, supposed to be somewhat potentially lowered by the fact that there's

[1:57:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): all these restrictions of it, and you're not helping them with farming, you're not helping

[1:57:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): at the community with housing. So can we specify that these secondary dwellings can be used for

[1:57:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): direct family, farm workers, or rental housing only?

[1:57:24] Voice 2: Ione? I believe there's no reason why you

[1:57:29] Voice 2: couldn't. So you can be more restrictive with that policy, but not less restrictive than what the

[1:57:35] Voice 2: ALC provides. I know that one of the reasons why the province moved this way is because they were

[1:57:41] Voice 2: having trouble with enforcement. So just trying to enforce who's there, who's living there, and

[1:57:47] Voice 2: how do you knock on a door and ask for evidence of who you are and how you're affiliated with

[1:57:53] Voice 2: the landowner was very tricky and basically impossible to do. So it was part acknowledgement

[1:58:00] Voice 2: that that was not working so i guess that would be a question to you is how would that get enforced

[1:58:06] Voice 2: i guess without

[1:58:09] Chair Fast (probable): a housing agreement that came for back every year for renewal

[1:58:13] Voice 2: or i know in whistler

[1:58:15] Voice 2: they have the whistler housing authority right and so that's one example of a model um i haven't i

[1:58:22] Voice 2: don't think i've seen it applied into agricultural land before though i can't think of any examples

[1:58:26] Voice 2: was off the top of my head okay

[1:58:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah it might be worth doing even if it's hard to enforce um

[1:58:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): yeah because i really am concerned about this issue of and i know housing advocates think that

[1:58:43] Trustee Busheikin (probable): allowing secondary dwellings is going to be one of the big answers to affordable housing and maybe

[1:58:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): in the short term but in the long term you are you are potentially just making property more

[1:58:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): more expensive so um are

[1:58:56] Voice 2: you so if it wasn't for rental housing what would it be for for yes

[1:59:02] Voice 2: cottages so short term so couldn't

[1:59:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): you just restrict short-term rental not even for rental

[1:59:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): just to have all your relatives stay at that's not actually currently allowed on denman like you have

[1:59:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to in theory you're supposed to house all your visitors in your house um you're not allowed a

[1:59:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): guest cottage uh it's just been a community value to really um keep a fairly tight control on

[1:59:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): density so it's that it should be used for housing like a seasonal and maybe there's a way to put that

[1:59:34] Trustee Busheikin (probable): in like seasonal housing uh seasonal housing or long-term housing and i know that's very hard to

[1:59:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): enforce but even if it's there and it's not enforceable it's stating a value in it actually

[1:59:49] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Actually, things like, because we can enforce church and vacation rentals, so we can enforce

[1:59:53] Trustee Busheikin (probable): guests, but then maybe that's just, people are just going to rebel against that, because

[1:59:58] Trustee Busheikin (probable): if they've got a cottage and

[1:59:59] Chair Fast (probable): they want to put.

[2:00:00] Trustee Busheikin (probable): their guests in it it's

[2:00:02] Chair Fast (probable): also taken us a little further away from agriculture i know slow down

[2:00:06] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the

[2:00:06] Chair Fast (probable): project right yeah okay

[2:00:08] Chair Fast (probable): it's four o'clock and uh

[2:00:11] Chair Fast (probable): our meeting goes until uh 4 30 so just

[2:00:13] Chair Fast (probable): flagging that what what would we like to do next shall we go to okay

[2:00:19] Trustee Busheikin (probable): go ahead i'm willing to put

[2:00:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): some motions on the floor okay great because i have

[2:00:26] Chair Fast (probable): one of these starting

[2:00:27] Voice 8: on page 30 is that

[2:00:31] Chair Fast (probable): that the ones you're thinking of let

[2:00:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): me not look at them like there

[2:00:36] Chair Fast (probable): are these you're thinking

[2:00:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): amendments i am thinking i think that this this isn't quite yet where we're ready to go ahead

[2:00:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): with it as i said at the beginning it's there's a lot here and some of it are fairly um concerted

[2:00:51] Trustee Busheikin (probable): changes for denman island so i just i guess i'd like uh information or ideas from ioni and marlis

[2:00:59] Trustee Busheikin (probable): about the process because if we want to do things like change the agritourism

[2:01:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to a much lower number and ask for analysis and suggestions for you know regulating it

[2:01:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that would be part of it um i think there might be um i i'm interested in looking at the

[2:01:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): uh maximum square footage of houses uh in light of having secondary suites and cottages

[2:01:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): um i think those are the main things but my understanding is that can't be kind of done

[2:01:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): quickly that we really need to send this away and have it come back at the next meeting

[2:01:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): like we can't kind of or could we make changes now no i guess we can't i'll just finish my

[2:01:52] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I thought, could we make changes now and then still move it ahead to public information?

[2:01:59] Chair Fast (probable): Well, maybe let's ask Marlis to tell us quickly your report starting on page 30.

[2:02:05] Chair Fast (probable): Can you just tell us? I see that the recommendations include the words as amended.

[2:02:11] Chair Fast (probable): So you've already included some of these changes that Ione's been describing, or maybe you can give us a little quick report.

[2:02:22] Planner McCargar (probable): Sure. So the report, just a small amount of background, the bylaws went forward for first reading in 2018. And I believe at that time, there was community workshops and community information meetings in 2018.

[2:02:37] Planner McCargar (probable): the bylaws that that you that I've included in this package went forward for first reading at

[2:02:44] Planner McCargar (probable): that time and then the project was put on hold and started up again in the fall of 2021

[2:02:52] Planner McCargar (probable): and based on the feedback that we heard from the community meetings with the APC and the

[2:02:59] Planner McCargar (probable): Growers and Producers Alliance these change and interviews and and you know I only went into

[2:03:06] Planner McCargar (probable): to detail there um the proposed amendment so this would be so i was proposing that we do second

[2:03:13] Planner McCargar (probable): reading as amended so the bylaw has been amended from first reading um and those like i said were

[2:03:23] Planner McCargar (probable): the changes that that we've been discussing largely largely today and

[2:03:29] Chair Fast (probable): um is there somewhere

[2:03:31] Chair Fast (probable): where where you list the amendments or they're all already incorporated so

[2:03:35] Planner McCargar (probable): in the um on page 33

[2:03:39] Planner McCargar (probable): oh thank you there's

[2:03:41] Chair Fast (probable): i'm losing my way in here okay

[2:03:43] Planner McCargar (probable): so i have a table in there and those are

[2:03:45] Planner McCargar (probable): the changes to proposed bylaw 228 which is the official community plan and you can see that

[2:03:51] Planner McCargar (probable): one section of the table is the previous language in the draft bylaw and then the amendments

[2:03:56] Planner McCargar (probable): requirements.

[2:03:57] Chair Fast (probable): Right. And I

[2:03:59] Planner McCargar (probable): felt that that was pretty clearly laid out. And when we got to the

[2:04:05] Planner McCargar (probable): proposed bylaw 229, which is the land use bylaw, it was a little bit trickier to include it in a

[2:04:11] Planner McCargar (probable): table like that, which is why I, and maybe that was a little bit confusing, but I included a clean

[2:04:17] Planner McCargar (probable): copy of the proposed changes and then a track change copy so that you could see the changes

[2:04:23] Planner McCargar (probable): that were made from the bylaw from first reading to now okay and

[2:04:27] Planner McCargar (probable): that's that's included in in the

[2:04:29] Planner McCargar (probable): attachment so um that was yeah attachment six and that has all the

[2:04:35] Planner McCargar (probable): changes highlighted in red

[2:04:36] Planner McCargar (probable): thank

[2:04:37] Chair Fast (probable): you and i think that'll help anybody watching the uh recording too but my apologies

[2:04:42] Chair Fast (probable): i got a little muddled up okay that helps a lot thank you and um so what we're looking at is

[2:04:50] Chair Fast (probable): is the what we heard from the community and from the consultant and those recommendations rolled in

[2:04:56] Chair Fast (probable): to the previous first reading from 2018 that's what's in front of us today is an amended version

[2:05:02] Chair Fast (probable): and i think uh trustee bushakin has more amendments to make okay well

[2:05:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): what i think i need to do is ask

[2:05:11] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that a new proposal come forward i don't think that i'm i would do a good job of uh proposing

[2:05:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): proposing like amendments word for word at this point so I know that will slow the process down

[2:05:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but it was I thought of trying to do that but there are just so many moving pieces with this

[2:05:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): and sometimes you have to slow down to do a good job so what I'd like to do before I put something

[2:05:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): on the floor is just I think I just want to make sure I'm asking for the right thing that I would

[2:05:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): ask staff to bring forward a revised I don't even know because there's an amendment to an amending

[2:05:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): bylaws. So revised, could I just say proposed amendments to propose bylaw number 228 and 229

[2:06:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): as follows, and then just say the contents of those. If

[2:06:07] Planner McCargar (probable): you go to page 36, does alternative

[2:06:10] Planner McCargar (probable): number two, is that kind of what you're looking at, what you're asking? Yes.

[2:06:18] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

[2:06:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I would have loved to just move this forward, but I just don't think we're quite ready.

[2:06:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Okay, thank you. I just wanted to check in about that first before we...

[2:06:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I have a number of changes, not very many, but I list them all in a sort of omnibus motion.

[2:06:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I don't think that's useful because I don't know how you and Trustee Critchley will respond to each one.

[2:06:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So I'm going to do it separately. And so, yeah, and I'm not seeing, David, are you ready for me to go ahead with this?

[2:06:58] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yeah, what I'm thinking is, it's, I don't know that you need to be terribly particular.

[2:07:04] Trustee Critchley (probable): But it's kind of a directions to staff with based upon the discussion as much as anything, I think we've kind of given some direction as to which way we're, we're leaning here.

[2:07:16] Trustee Critchley (probable): And I think places of focus are like the, maybe some options on restrictions for the agritourism, you know, and maybe even for the secondary dwelling.

[2:07:32] Trustee Critchley (probable): And apart from that, I don't think I've got too many concerns.

[2:07:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Okay.

[2:07:39] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Okay.

[2:07:40] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So it sounds like.

[2:07:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So, okay.

[2:07:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So let's, well, I do have my thing about the square footage, but let's see how it goes.

[2:07:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So I'm going to move that we request staff. And just before I move it, I am going to be a little more specific because I think for the sake of a constituents who aren't going to listen to this whole meeting necessarily and have all the documents in front of them and may not quite, you know, follow it.

[2:08:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but they wanna see what we decided.

[2:08:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So I'm gonna, I move that the local trust committee

[2:08:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): request staff to prepare revised draft bylaws

[2:08:11] Trustee Busheikin (probable): for consideration of second reading at a subsequent meeting,

[2:08:14] Trustee Busheikin (probable): including the following, colon.

[2:08:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Limiting options for agritourism accommodation

[2:08:30] Voice 8: to

[2:08:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): no more than four tent

[2:08:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): or RV sites and no

[2:08:39] Voice 8: more than one cabin per property and including sufficient setbacks

[2:08:56] Voice 8: for

[2:08:57] Voice 10: those uses and

[2:09:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I don't actually have this written down so I'm trusting Vicky and I'm sorry

[2:09:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Vicky not to have this sent to you but I just didn't know how the conversation would go or

[2:09:18] Trustee Busheikin (probable): where we get to yeah so that's just third point

[2:09:21] Chair Fast (probable): um just got it okay good she's with us i just

[2:09:25] Chair Fast (probable): thought we hadn't seen her for a while i better check thank you yeah

[2:09:28] Chair Fast (probable): um

[2:09:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): also actually that's kind

[2:09:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): of the the main one in fact um but i'm gonna i'm gonna add the others and then we'll see how it

[2:09:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): It goes, I would like to see, so the next bullet, creating regulations to allow seasonal egg sales on

[2:09:54] Voice 8: R1 and R2 lots over one hectare, comma, not in the ALR, comma,

[2:10:24] Voice 8: while prohibiting the keeping of roosters on these lots okay once

[2:10:51] Voice 8: i hear from vicki i'm assuming

[2:10:53] Voice 8: she's catching these keep

[2:10:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): i'm with you here i'm with you okay yeah okay and then finally and this

[2:11:02] Trustee Busheikin (probable): is maybe going to be the controversial one but let's see limiting the maximum size of a principal

[2:11:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): dwelling unit in ALR land to 410 square meters, unless it contains a secondary suite,

[2:11:46] Trustee Busheikin (probable): in

[2:11:50] Voice 7: which case maximum size would be 500 square meters and those

[2:12:05] Voice 8: are my three points

[2:12:07] Voice 8: after all that

[2:12:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): discussion it's not even that much that's

[2:12:10] Chair Fast (probable): great okay did you have uh well

[2:12:13] Chair Fast (probable): shall we go through these three while they're in front of us and then uh see if we've got more to

[2:12:18] Chair Fast (probable): add David or did you have something different go ahead I'll

[2:12:24] Trustee Critchley (probable): second it as is okay

[2:12:27] Chair Fast (probable): so we've got

[2:12:29] Chair Fast (probable): motions we've got a motion to amend with three bullets moved and seconded and then discussion

[2:12:36] Chair Fast (probable): and maybe if Vicky if you're able to put that up that would be terrific on the screen or to put it

[2:12:45] Chair Fast (probable): it in the chat or something or email us because that was quite a bit of work

[2:12:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): go ahead yeah i'll

[2:12:51] Trustee Busheikin (probable): speak to it the first one i think we've discussed in in in some detail i just feel it's good to

[2:12:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): get some numbers out there for now and um i even think just having one cabin it's new for demo we

[2:13:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): don't allow stvrs at all so um i'm happy to just have that um and the um the little excels i know

[2:13:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): know it's a little thing but it's like a chipping away at our rural nature not to still allow that

[2:13:21] Trustee Busheikin (probable): kind of thing um you know it like retired people can have a little flock of chickens and make a

[2:13:27] Trustee Busheikin (probable): little bit of extra money it just is woven into the culture in a really grassroots way

[2:13:31] Trustee Busheikin (probable): so that's why i know it's extra work and it's complicating complicated but um and then the

[2:13:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): third one i just i think that if we're looking at with this whole project increasing impacts

[2:13:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): impacts on the island, like there's no getting around that agritourism, secondary dwellings. And

[2:13:49] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I think when we increase impacts, we need to do it carefully. And we need to decrease impacts or

[2:13:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): limit impacts as we do it, or otherwise, use just goes up and up and up and up. And the 410 square

[2:14:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): meters is I did some research, it's a lot bigger than the average Canadian house, I did research

[2:14:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): average Canadian house, depending on who you listen to, is anywhere from 1,900 to 2,300 square

[2:14:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): foot. So we're still letting people up a pretty hog and big house. Square foot

[2:14:20] Trustee Busheikin (probable): or square meters?

[2:14:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Well, sorry, I think in square meters. So 410 would be the square meters. So it's less than

[2:14:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the ALR size. That is 4,413 square feet. Sorry, I'll try to keep that straight. Which, as I said,

[2:14:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): is almost twice as much or approximately twice as much as the average canadian home today

[2:14:43] Voice 11: and it's

[2:14:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): like eight times as much as the average canadian home in 1950 and i don't know that may not be

[2:14:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): exactly right but um it's okay i think we get the gist okay

[2:14:53] Chair Fast (probable): i'm trying to move us along just to say

[2:14:56] Chair Fast (probable): that

[2:14:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): the allowing more square footage is um for a secondary suite is so not to dissuade people from

[2:15:03] Trustee Busheikin (probable): having secondary suites because that's the lowest impact form of secondary housing is a suite in

[2:15:08] Trustee Busheikin (probable): your house okay it's a

[2:15:10] Trustee Busheikin (probable): great way of intergenerational living so i want to enhance that opportunity

[2:15:16] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay thank

[2:15:17] Chair Fast (probable): you uh thank you and uh trustee critchley did you want to speak yeah

[2:15:23] Trustee Critchley (probable): uh so i'll

[2:15:24] Trustee Critchley (probable): just say that um i think i'll vote in favor of this just to get get things moving along uh i'm

[2:15:30] Trustee Critchley (probable): not sure that i would ultimately i might move amendment but i'd like to hear public reaction

[2:15:35] Trustee Critchley (probable): to this i think as as you said uh getting a number out there in regard to agritourism is a good thing

[2:15:41] Trustee Critchley (probable): uh it's a basis for discussion the egg thing i'm not so sure um i'm not so sure about because

[2:15:50] Trustee Critchley (probable): back in the day that used to be against the rules of the egg marketing board and hence

[2:15:54] Trustee Critchley (probable): illegal from a provincial point of view so i don't know if i was sort of um purporting to

[2:15:59] Trustee Critchley (probable): to make it legal from a bylaw perspective

[2:16:03] Trustee Critchley (probable): runs afoul of a greater law?

[2:16:05] Trustee Critchley (probable): I don't know.

[2:16:06] Trustee Critchley (probable): Maybe staff could look at that.

[2:16:09] Chair Fast (probable): Ione probably knows.

[2:16:12] Chair Fast (probable): I believe you're allowed to keep chickens in the city now

[2:16:14] Chair Fast (probable): and that kind of thing.

[2:16:15] Chair Fast (probable): Go ahead, Iona.

[2:16:17] Trustee Critchley (probable): We're talking about selling eggs, not keeping chickens.

[2:16:21] Voice 2: Yeah.

[2:16:21] Voice 2: Okay, sorry.

[2:16:22] Voice 2: Go ahead, Ione.

[2:16:23] Voice 2: Well, what I'm thinking is more about the definitions,

[2:16:25] Voice 2: going back to the definition.

[2:16:27] Voice 2: So we have the definition for agriculture,

[2:16:28] Voice 2: which is allowed still in those zones and would include selling eggs likely it's just that we're

[2:16:34] Voice 2: not allowing intensive agriculture so it's that confinement again so it's more about

[2:16:39] Voice 2: keeping chickens like in a confined coop like so maybe you want to have more language around like

[2:16:45] Voice 2: how the chickens are being housed rather than the selling of eggs or the number of chickens

[2:16:51] Voice 2: something like that because i think what we're trying to get away from is large barns horses

[2:16:56] Voice 2: even like there's like those would actually fall into you know barns and stables would fall into

[2:17:01] Voice 2: confinement intensive agriculture so it's not so much the use it's about the livestock and how

[2:17:07] Voice 2: they're being uh housed so

[2:17:11] Chair Fast (probable): maybe if you want well and how roosters are being kept if if kept uh

[2:17:23] Chair Fast (probable): well anyway that could come in the in the staff report as a result of this right

[2:17:26] Chair Fast (probable): those kinds of recommendations or did you want to add something laura to that

[2:17:33] Trustee Busheikin (probable): well if staff are okay

[2:17:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): interpreting what the the um the direction to not be too specific like if what's i think you

[2:17:43] Trustee Busheikin (probable): understand what my goal is so if what's better is looking at you know how the the livestock is

[2:17:50] Trustee Busheikin (probable): housed or the type of livestock um just something that would would send the message that people who

[2:17:56] Trustee Busheikin (probable): who have been doing this can keep doing it and it's okay so

[2:17:59] Voice 2: we do have a clause in there that

[2:18:01] Voice 2: everything currently in play would be grandfathered in but

[2:18:05] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay but then i guess even if you're on like

[2:18:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): two hectares in r2 and you're not in the alr and you want to do this like the use can be continued

[2:18:13] Trustee Busheikin (probable): not just grandfathering because i don't think it even works with grandfathering and you have to

[2:18:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): prove grandfathering like it's actually quite a uh uh demanding thing and it has to be continuous

[2:18:23] Trustee Busheikin (probable): use and this is often seasonal use so i actually i just want to know that it's going to be okay

[2:18:30] Trustee Busheikin (probable): how

[2:18:31] Chair Fast (probable): about how about if we add to the end of your second bullet if i have that correctly

[2:18:36] Chair Fast (probable): season leg sales while prohibiting uh keeping roosters comma including how confined

[2:18:45] Chair Fast (probable): would that if that helps would that help staff make a recommendation as to how

[2:18:53] Chair Fast (probable): to get there within this the the big recommendations that you're already making in

[2:18:58] Chair Fast (probable): the definitions i'm not seeing enthusiastic support so i'd withdraw that that's fine

[2:19:06] Chair Fast (probable): you could

[2:19:06] Voice 2: provide a like a maximum footprint for the chicken coop or the chicken run area

[2:19:12] Voice 2: i know that district of squamish does that okay because they have quite a lot of rural

[2:19:17] Voice 2: lots as well um and that's they've they've put some parameters into the height

[2:19:22] Voice 2: and the footprint for the chicken coop okay but

[2:19:32] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay yeah um leave

[2:19:35] Trustee Critchley (probable): it as is and uh let staff

[2:19:37] Trustee Critchley (probable): figure it out yeah

[2:19:38] Trustee Busheikin (probable): okay because then yeah sure yeah that's that's what i would like

[2:19:43] Trustee Busheikin (probable): if there's something

[2:19:44] Trustee Busheikin (probable): that we can do

[2:19:45] Chair Fast (probable): okay and i'll just quickly speak and say uh i'm in favor of

[2:19:49] Chair Fast (probable): these i i um uh including the third one partly because uh richmond is just over there with the

[2:19:57] Chair Fast (probable): monster houses and the um you know enormous dwellings uh that make the property much more

[2:20:08] Chair Fast (probable): uh pricey and all those things and take up a lot of a lot of land okay and uh and the and

[2:20:15] Chair Fast (probable): and options for using the land for farming.

[2:20:19] Chair Fast (probable): So I'm in favor.

[2:20:20] Chair Fast (probable): More discussion?

[2:20:21] Chair Fast (probable): Go ahead, Trustee Critchley.

[2:20:23] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yeah, I hadn't finished and addressed the third point,

[2:20:26] Trustee Critchley (probable): which is the square footage.

[2:20:28] Trustee Critchley (probable): You know, I'm in favor of restricting square footage,

[2:20:31] Trustee Critchley (probable): generally speaking, and across the board in the islands,

[2:20:36] Trustee Critchley (probable): because I think it's the responsible thing to do

[2:20:38] Trustee Critchley (probable): from an environmental point of view.

[2:20:41] Trustee Critchley (probable): But I'm just concerned about doing it as a one-off

[2:20:45] Trustee Critchley (probable): on agricultural land now that's one point um but it won't prevent me from from voting in favor of

[2:20:51] Trustee Critchley (probable): this just to move it along but i i do think that we need to address that on a broader basis and the

[2:20:58] Trustee Critchley (probable): the other thing is uh in regard to that oh your your exception bringing it back up to the alr

[2:21:06] Trustee Critchley (probable): standard was to allow a suite um i can just see you know that's a that's a fudge factor

[2:21:13] Trustee Critchley (probable): factor that invite or a loophole that invites people to crawl through right you know they'll

[2:21:19] Trustee Critchley (probable): just put a uh a toilet or something in the thing and that bedroom becomes a suite you know so

[2:21:26] Trustee Critchley (probable): uh i i don't know that it really adds anything um i'd just be inclined to to have

[2:21:36] Trustee Critchley (probable): four four hundred and ten square meters or whatever your threshold is there that'd be my

[2:21:43] Trustee Critchley (probable): preference but there

[2:21:44] Voice 2: was a question asked um in the survey in the questionnaire and the results

[2:21:49] Voice 2: are on page 45. if you're interested i can i can bring it up it was fairly evenly split um

[2:21:56] Voice 2: so the gray are is the is the number of people who just would like to see the 500 square meter max

[2:22:02] Voice 2: um the blue is to something less than 500 but not specified and the orange is sort of going

[2:22:10] Voice 2: going towards what Trustee Boushikian was saying,

[2:22:12] Voice 2: which is around restricting all,

[2:22:14] Voice 2: cumulatively, the dwellings to 500.

[2:22:18] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Huh, yeah, I guess I had taken that into account,

[2:22:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): but I had forgotten about that.

[2:22:28] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Well,

[2:22:28] Chair Fast (probable): let's see where it goes.

[2:22:31] Chair Fast (probable): Yeah, okay.

[2:22:32] Chair Fast (probable): Well, I'm hearing that we've got the motion on the floor

[2:22:37] Chair Fast (probable): with the three bullets,

[2:22:39] Chair Fast (probable): and uh any more discussion or do you need do people need to hear the motion again no no okay

[2:22:49] Chair Fast (probable): then i'm going to call the question hearing no more discussion call the question all those in

[2:22:54] Chair Fast (probable): favor aye aye aye three hands went up vicky that passes unanimously uh thank you very much and um

[2:23:06] Chair Fast (probable): And that's to do with both the OCP and the LUB.

[2:23:11] Chair Fast (probable): So I think we're going to leave these other ones for now, right?

[2:23:15] Chair Fast (probable): Because they all depend on what the next step is.

[2:23:19] Chair Fast (probable): Is that correct?

[2:23:22] Chair Fast (probable): I'm seeing General Small nodding.

[2:23:24] Chair Fast (probable): Okay.

[2:23:25] Chair Fast (probable): I'm just making sure that I'm not making errors as we go.

[2:23:30] Chair Fast (probable): That's great.

[2:23:30] Chair Fast (probable): Okay.

[2:23:31] Chair Fast (probable): Thank you.

[2:23:32] Chair Fast (probable): Then does that conclude this?

[2:23:34] Chair Fast (probable): Oh, go ahead, Trustee Beshaken.

[2:23:35] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I've got another one.

[2:23:37] Trustee Busheikin (probable): So LTC, the LTC staff to bring back options and analysis for satisfying requirements around

[2:23:51] Voice 8: septic and water for

[2:23:55] Trustee Busheikin (probable): secondary dwellings and agritourism accommodation.

[2:24:07] Chair Fast (probable): Okay. And I'm assuming that Vicki has that and you seconded it. Thank you very much, Trustee Critchley. And then you want to speak to your motion.

[2:24:22] Chair Fast (probable): I think it's clear.

[2:24:24] Chair Fast (probable): Yeah. Any discussion?

[2:24:27] Voice 8: No.

[2:24:29] Chair Fast (probable): Okay. I think it is clear. Thank you very much for that. Then I'm just going to call the question. All those in favor?

[2:24:36] Chair Fast (probable): Aye.

[2:24:37] Chair Fast (probable): Three hands went up. That passes unanimously. Thank you very much. Very good. Any more?

[2:24:44] Chair Fast (probable): Just

[2:24:47] Trustee Busheikin (probable): a question for staff. I am curious to look at mitigating factors or controlling factors around the agritourism accommodation that we talked about, such as clustering, or this is a word, contiguity, being contiguous, or I guess we talked about setbacks.

[2:25:07] Trustee Busheikin (probable): Was that all implied for staff in the earlier motion, or do we want a new motion asking staff to bring back options and analysis around, like I would say, minimizing impact of agritourism accommodation?

[2:25:26] Planner McCargar (probable): I think it might be good to have the motion, because I felt like the motion originally is just around limiting the number, so it might be

[2:25:34] Planner McCargar (probable): good to offer more direction.

[2:25:35] Planner McCargar (probable): Okay, so

[2:25:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I'm going to try one more motion and then I'll speak to it very briefly because I've spoken to it.

[2:25:41] Trustee Busheikin (probable): I moved that the LTC request staff to bring back options and analysis for minimizing impact of agritourism accommodation.

[2:26:02] Chair Fast (probable): Okay, and do I have a seconder?

[2:26:05] Chair Fast (probable): Thank you.

[2:26:06] Chair Fast (probable): you and sometimes I

[2:26:07] Chair Fast (probable): don't see you nodding and I can hardly hear and I'm because I've got kids on

[2:26:11] Chair Fast (probable): the trampoline out the window that's what's going on for me okay and just

[2:26:15] Trustee Busheikin (probable): to speak to it briefly I

[2:26:17] Trustee Busheikin (probable): think we've covered off a lot of this already in discussion and I know in talking to farmers

[2:26:22] Trustee Busheikin (probable): they've said well the whole thing like what they don't want to see is agricultural land alienated

[2:26:29] Trustee Busheikin (probable): from agriculture by any of this so things like like clustering the agritourism but also having

[2:26:36] Trustee Busheikin (probable): it close to the main building so that it's not clearing and putting a driveway to another site

[2:26:42] Trustee Busheikin (probable): not that that's very cost effective or having it near agricultural buildings those are all just

[2:26:48] Trustee Busheikin (probable): ideas um and then um yeah i think that's that's all that's

[2:26:58] Chair Fast (probable): behind it okay thank you i thought

[2:27:01] Chair Fast (probable): that was an interesting part of the discussion too so i'm glad it's been moved and seconded and

[2:27:05] Chair Fast (probable): i support uh the motion anything any more discussion no

[2:27:10] Voice 8: okay

[2:27:11] Chair Fast (probable): then i'm going to call

[2:27:12] Chair Fast (probable): the question all those in favor one two three hands go up that motion passes unanimously as

[2:27:19] Chair Fast (probable): as well thank you very much laura passed unanimously okay any more it's 4 28 well done

[2:27:30] Chair Fast (probable): okay then i'm going to uh say thank you everybody and i'm going to uh perhaps uh say thanks to our

[2:27:39] Chair Fast (probable): consultants and i only can go we've just got one more little item on here which is the new business

[2:27:43] Chair Fast (probable): about the dfo shellfish advisory committee um and uh david have you sent that to vicky

[2:27:50] Chair Fast (probable): or I'm sure I don't

[2:27:54] Trustee Critchley (probable): have the I didn't have her address or email address right

[2:27:58] Chair Fast (probable): strange

[2:27:58] Trustee Critchley (probable): okay well you can always send

[2:27:59] Chair Fast (probable): it to the our planner Marla's and she will

[2:28:04] Chair Fast (probable): facilitate all

[2:28:05] Trustee Critchley (probable): that I think

[2:28:05] Chair Fast (probable): I

[2:28:08] Trustee Critchley (probable): sent it to oh

[2:28:09] Chair Fast (probable): perfect okay thank you and then so

[2:28:14] Chair Fast (probable): So, would you like to introduce this topic?

[2:28:18] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yes.

[2:28:19] Trustee Critchley (probable): Yeah, so this is a motion in response.

[2:28:22] Trustee Critchley (probable): I

[2:28:22] Voice 8: want to say bye, thank you.

[2:28:23] Voice 8: Bye bye, Iona, thank you very much.

[2:28:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): This is a motion in response to an invitation, unexpected invitation from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to make an application to join their committee, which is called SAMAC,

[2:28:41] Trustee Critchley (probable): or it's the Shellfish Agriculture Management Advisory Committee.

[2:28:46] Trustee Critchley (probable): which i understand meets twice a year spring and fall um we have tried as trust has tried to get

[2:28:56] Trustee Critchley (probable): a seat at the table on this for for years and uh so finally there's some prospect of that happening

[2:29:03] Trustee Critchley (probable): they do have an application form which i have completed but it requires a nominator so uh

[2:29:10] Trustee Critchley (probable): trustee blue chicken would be that person um i can include that into the motion so i'll move that

[2:29:17] Trustee Critchley (probable): that the Denman Islands Local Trust Committee

[2:29:20] Trustee Critchley (probable): nominate trustee David Critchley as a representative

[2:29:23] Trustee Critchley (probable): to sit on the Shellfish Aquaculture Management Advisory

[2:29:28] Trustee Critchley (probable): Committee of Fisheries and Oceans Canada,

[2:29:33] Trustee Critchley (probable): that trustee Laura Bershaken be the alternate representative

[2:29:36] Trustee Critchley (probable): in case of his inability to attend any meeting,

[2:29:41] Trustee Critchley (probable): comma and that trustee beshaken uh sign any nomination forms necessary thank

[2:29:51] Chair Fast (probable): you and do i

[2:29:52] Chair Fast (probable): have a seconder that very good trustee beshaken is uh nomination form okay has seconded thank

[2:30:00] Chair Fast (probable): you and uh i um i did hear about this briefly from uh trustee critchley when he was talking

[2:30:06] Chair Fast (probable): about could it be on the agenda so i'm in support of this and uh of the motion that's moved and

[2:30:11] Chair Fast (probable): seconded do we need any more discussion maybe trustee uh critchley you can tell us is this um

[2:30:17] Chair Fast (probable): uh something that's going to involve a lot of travel for you or um is it a um uh a chore

[2:30:27] Trustee Critchley (probable): well yeah i don't i wouldn't look forward to the meetings i could say i did attend one of

[2:30:32] Trustee Critchley (probable): their meetings some years ago um and yeah it's uh it's an assignment let's say but uh and of

[2:30:40] Trustee Critchley (probable): course we've got elections coming up in october and who knows uh who'll be sitting around the

[2:30:46] Trustee Critchley (probable): table at that point so uh it's a strange timing i don't know whether they will even have a meeting

[2:30:51] Trustee Critchley (probable): before the next election they did extend invitations by the way uh people to put names

[2:30:56] Trustee Critchley (probable): forward uh to uh trustees on luskete island and thetis island uh who i've spoken with and

[2:31:03] Trustee Critchley (probable): obviously there will only be one seat at the table so they have agreed that it should be from here

[2:31:07] Trustee Critchley (probable): the meetings are typically in courtney and that's most convenient too very

[2:31:13] Chair Fast (probable): good okay thank you um

[2:31:14] Chair Fast (probable): Then any more discussion?

[2:31:18] Chair Fast (probable): Okay, all those in favor?

[2:31:21] Chair Fast (probable): One, two,

[2:31:22] Chair Fast (probable): three hands go up.

[2:31:23] Chair Fast (probable): That motion passes.

[2:31:25] Chair Fast (probable): Thank you very much, trustees.

[2:31:27] Chair Fast (probable): That's terrific.

[2:31:29] Chair Fast (probable): And thank you, Marlis.

[2:31:33] Chair Fast (probable): I'm just checking my agenda.

[2:31:34] Chair Fast (probable): Yep, there's nothing else on here.

[2:31:35] Chair Fast (probable): We don't even talk about next meeting,

[2:31:37] Chair Fast (probable): although that'll be in September

[2:31:39] Chair Fast (probable): for our next regular meeting.

[2:31:40] Chair Fast (probable): But this is a special meeting.

[2:31:41] Chair Fast (probable): And I think we've done good work today in the heat.

[2:31:45] Chair Fast (probable): Thank you very much, everybody.

[2:31:46] Chair Fast (probable): everybody, and thank you for the staff behind the scenes too there.

[2:31:50] Chair Fast (probable): Marlis, of course, and Sonia and Vicky.

[2:31:53] Chair Fast (probable): Thanks and have a good summer, everybody, and

[2:31:57] Chair Fast (probable): and look forward to getting together in in September.

[2:32:00] Chair Fast (probable): So bye for now.

[2:32:02] Chair Fast (probable): This meeting is adjourned. Thank you.

ADOPTED 
Denman Island  ADOPTED 1 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 27, 2022 
 
Denman Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
July 27, 2022 
Electronic Meeting 
 
Members Present: Sue Ellen Fast, Chair 
 David Critchley, Local Trustee 
 Laura Busheikin, Local Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Marlis McCargar, Island Planner 
 Sonja Zupanec, Island Planner 
 Vicky Bockman, Recorder 
  
Others Present: Ione Smith, Upland Agricultural Consulting 
 There were no members of the public 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
“Please note, the order of agenda items may be modified during the meeting. Times are provided 
for convenience only and are subject to change.” 
Chair Fast called the meeting to order at 2:00 pm.  She acknowledged that the meeting was 
being held in territory of the Coast Salish First Nations, introduced Trustees, staff and recorder, 
and advised that this special meeting is being live streamed and recorded for posting to the 
Islands Trust website. 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
The following addition to the agenda was presented for consideration: 
4.1  DFO Shellfish Aquaculture Management Advisory Committee 
A Trustee inquired as to the absence of a Town Hall in this meeting and in response, it was 
noted that the Question and Answer session at 3.2 was included to create an opportunity for 
community members to participate in this meeting regarding the Farm Regulations Review 
Project. Trustees recognized the importance of community input on this project and encouraged 
opportunities for engagement. 
By general consent the agenda was approved as amended. 
3. DENMAN ISLAND FARMING REGULATION REVIEW PROJECT 
3.1 Presentation by Ione Smith - Upland Consulting Ltd. 
Ione Smith conducted a presentation on the Denman Island Farm Regulations Review 
Engagement Summary and Key Directions.  The report is available on the Islands Trust 
website for viewing and includes information on: 
 Project objectives – to enhance and preserve farming activities through bylaw 
updates; 

ADOPTED 
Denman Island  ADOPTED 2 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 27, 2022 
 Engagement -  presentations to Advisory Planning Commission, Local Trust 
Committee (LTC), Growers and Producers Alliance; interviews, community mail-out 
Questionnaire, Community Information Meeting; 
 Definition of Agriculture; 
 Definition of Intensive Agriculture;   
 R1/R2 Intensive Agriculture Restrictions;  
 Secondary Dwellings in Agricultural Land Reserve (ALR); 
 Agri-Tourism Accommodations in ALR properties with farm tax status; 
 Setbacks from Watercourses – Water issues are out of scope for this project; 
recommending topic be revisited with future Development Permit Areas updates; 
 Next Steps – Consultant to receive feedback from LTC and community members on 
recommended changes, make final revisions, and present proposed Farm Bylaw to 
LTC.  
3.2 Question and Answer Session 
Trustees presented questions and engaged with Planners and Consultant Ione Smith in 
discussion that included the following: 
 There was community support for additional water/septic or equivalent 
requirements for secondary dwellings on ALR properties and agri-tourism 
accommodations. What mechanism would trigger the need to provide this 
information and what would satisfy the requirements? 
o Staff can report back to the LTC with recommendations for specific mechanisms 
to consider, and to satisfy the condition for adequate water and septic capacity 
in those cases.  
 
 While acknowledging the importance of secondary income for farmers, concern was 
expressed that permitting agri-tourism without adequate regulation might increase 
the number of tourists to an undesirable level and have a negative impact on 
neighbours.  
 What are the setback requirements for agri-tourism platform 
accommodations?  
 How would the 5% lot coverage restriction be calculated and applied for 
tents that could be scattered throughout the property?  
 Can the Agricultural Land Commission (ALC) policy wording that specifically 
outlines the criteria and categories for agri-tourism activities be integrated 
into the bylaws? 
 Can the Siting and Use Permit (SUP) policy be changed to include 
commercial tenting associated with agri-tourism camping? 
 Can the length of stay be limited to less than 30 days? 
o Only farms in the ALR with farm tax status would be eligible to conduct 
permitted agri-tourism activity.  
 
The community survey indicated that the community does not generally support 
Temporary Use Permits (TUPs), however it is an option the LTC can consider to 
control the type of development that is occurring and regulate water and septic 
for agri-tourism accommodation.  
 

ADOPTED 
Denman Island  ADOPTED 3 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 27, 2022 
It is within the jurisdiction of local governments to regulate setbacks, restrict the 
number or type of accommodations, or length of stay as desired; however it 
was advised that length of stay would be difficult to enforce. 
 
Staff can bring options and analysis to the September LTC meeting of how the 
SUP procedure might be changed to capture and follow up on information that 
might need to be submitted for agri-tourism accommodation. 
 
 Support was expressed for permitting intensive agriculture on R1/R2 properties 
more than 2.0 ha (5 acres). The current definition of intensive agriculture includes 
the text: “the use of land, buildings and structures by a commercial enterprise or an 
institution for the confinement of poultry...”.  
 Would this restrict an individual with a flock of chickens on a 1-2 acre 
property from farm gate sale of eggs? Continuation of this type of small 
scale usage was supported. 
 “Confining” chickens is a common practice to protect them from predators; 
would this then be considered commercial?  
o The LTC has the flexibility to remove the word “commercial” from the Intensive 
Agriculture definition; it is the term “confined” that differentiates intensive 
agriculture.  Staff can explore approaches that would continue to permit farm 
gate egg sales on R1/R2 properties. 
 Definition of agri-tourism accommodation in Schedule 1 section 1.3 Part 1 ii should 
be corrected to state “agri-tourism accommodation means agri-tourism 
accommodation as defined by the Agricultural Land Reserve Use Regulation”. 
 If TUPs for agri-tourism accommodation are not required if compliant with the ALR 
regulations and Denman Island bylaws and are removed from Land Use Bylaw (LUB) 
Table 3 1.23 Part 5 Area 3 and Guidelines, where will this information be moved to 
in the LUB? 
o Depending on LTC direction, staff might suggest the information be 
incorporated into the Zone Table and would bring back recommendations at a 
future meeting. 
 Would it be possible to require that secondary dwellings in the ALR be restricted to 
housing for immediate family members, farm workers or rental housing only or 
include affordability restrictions? 
o It is not possible that zoning can require that rent be affordable without using 
housing agreements which are cumbersome.  It might be possible to include 
rental housing as a permitted use, however, it would be difficult to enforce. 
3.3 Staff Report - for decision 
DE-2022-090 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee request staff to prepare revised draft 
bylaws for consideration of second reading at a subsequent meeting including the 
following: 
 Limiting options for agri-tourism accommodation to no more than four tents or RV 
sites and no more than one cabin per property and including sufficient  
setbacks for those uses; 

ADOPTED 
Denman Island  ADOPTED 4 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 27, 2022 
 Creating regulations to allow seasonal egg sales on R1 and R2 lots over 1ha not in 
the Agricultural Land Reserve, while prohibiting the keeping of roosters on these 
lots; 
 Limiting the maximum size of a principal dwelling unit in Agricultural Land Reserve 
land to 410 metres
2
 unless it contains a secondary suite in which case maximum size 
would be 500 metres
2.
 
Trustee Busheikin spoke to the motion, noting that these amendments are put forth after discussion, 
and community input will be heard; the second bullet is directed at maintaining the island’s rural nature; 
and the third bullet addresses increasing impacts on the island while assigning square footage 
requirements that are larger than the average Canadian home. 
Trustee Critchley supports advancement of this amendment and looks forward to community 
engagement on these issues that will inform next steps. 
CARRIED 
DE-2022-091 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee request staff to bring back options and 
analysis for satisfying requirements around septic and water for secondary dwellings 
and agri-tourism accommodations. 
CARRIED 
DE-2022-092 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee request staff to bring back options and 
analysis for minimizing the impact of agri-tourism accommodation. 
 
Trustee Busheikin spoke to the motion. In conversations with farmers, she has heard that they do not 
want farmland to be alienated by agri-tourism; and possible approaches to mitigate impact might 
include clustering, contiguous accommodations, setbacks, or siting near the main dwelling. 
CARRIED 
4. NEW BUSINESS 
4.1 DFO Shellfish Aquaculture Management Advisory Committee 
Trustee Critchley advised that he has received an invitation from Fisheries and Oceans 
Canada to apply to join their committee, Shellfish Aquaculture Management Advisory 
Committee.  
DE-2022-093 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee nominate Trustee David Critchley as a 
representative to sit on the Shellfish Aquaculture Management Advisory Committee of 
Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and that Trustee Laura Busheikin be the alternate 
representative in case of his inability to attend any meeting, and that Trustee Busheikin 
sign any nomination forms necessary. 
CARRIED 

ADOPTED 
Denman Island  ADOPTED 5 
Local Trust Committee Special Meeting Minutes 
July 27, 2022 
5. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 4:34 pm. 
 
 
_________________________ 
Sue Ellen Fast, Chair 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
 
_________________________ 
Vicky Bockman, Recorder