Islands Trust Council regular meeting, August 26, 2022

[0:00:00] Trustee Morrison: August 26, 2002. We want to say good morning to everyone and that we're now broadcasting

[0:00:06] Trustee Morrison: and preparing to start. We're bringing people in today from a number of different areas,

[0:00:13] Trustee Morrison: so we just want to acknowledge that people are in their own homes and hopefully we won't have

[0:00:19] Trustee Morrison: any technical difficulties, but bear with us as we adjust. I'm humbly thankful to live and work

[0:00:26] Trustee Morrison: in the treaty lands and territories and the current territories of the WSANUCH Nation

[0:00:31] Trustee Morrison: and other trustees as you are, if you can introduce yourself in the chat and give any

[0:00:39] Trustee Morrison: acknowledgement that you wish for the space that you are living and working in, that would be

[0:00:43] Trustee Morrison: wonderful. We are also across the Coast Salish territories more broadly, and we want to

[0:00:53] Trustee Morrison: to acknowledge that as members of the Trust Council.

[0:00:58] Trustee Morrison: All right, I'm Deb Morrison.

[0:01:00] Trustee Morrison: I'm chair of the Trust Programs Committee

[0:01:02] Trustee Morrison: and a trustee for North Pender Island.

[0:01:05] Trustee Morrison: We're joined today by members

[0:01:07] Trustee Morrison: of both the Trust Programs Committee and staff.

[0:01:09] Trustee Morrison: And so maybe if we can do a quick verbal run around

[0:01:15] Trustee Morrison: for who is here.

[0:01:17] Trustee Morrison: So I'm gonna start with Trustee Peterson.

[0:01:24] Voice 11: Good morning, Trustee Peterson, Vice Chair of Programs Committee, City of Island, and

[0:01:30] Voice 11: Wake Tech.

[0:01:31] Trustee Morrison: Thank you, Trustee Critchley.

[0:01:39] Trustee Morrison: I think we have a technical challenge with Trustee Critchley.

[0:01:42] Trustee Morrison: If we will come back to him, Trustee McConkie.

[0:01:44] Trustee Morrison: Good

[0:01:47] Trustee McConchie: morning, Chair Morrison.

[0:01:49] Trustee McConchie: I'm up in, I've just had to do my research up in Slammond territory, actually, right

[0:01:53] Trustee McConchie: now near Comox.

[0:01:53] Trustee McConchie: So good morning from there.

[0:01:55] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[0:01:56] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Brent.

[0:01:58] Voice 5: Trustee Paul Brent from Saturna Island, also known as Tech Texan.

[0:02:04] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Langerheist.

[0:02:06] Voice 21: Case Langerheist from Gabriola Island.

[0:02:09] Voice 21: That's the name of the territory.

[0:02:12] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Colburn.

[0:02:13] Trustee Morrison: Name

[0:02:17] Voice 22: of First Nation territory on Gabriola Island.

[0:02:20] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[0:02:20] Trustee Morrison: And your audio is a little bit touchy, too.

[0:02:23] Trustee Morrison: I'm wondering if we might need to drop some video so folks can get good bandwidth.

[0:02:29] Trustee Morrison: We're struggling, I think, on a couple fronts.

[0:02:31] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Wright.

[0:02:34] Voice 23: Yes.

[0:02:35] Voice 23: I'm from the St. Chiltern speaking land of a number of close-fellows nations on South

[0:02:44] Voice 23: Bender Island.

[0:02:45] Voice 23: Bender Island is also known as Speyess.

[0:02:47] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[0:02:48] Trustee Morrison: And Trustee Critchley, we see you're back with us.

[0:02:50] Trustee Morrison: Would you like to introduce?

[0:02:56] Trustee Morrison: I'm having some trouble.

[0:02:58] Trustee Morrison: If maybe one of the staff members can just check in with Trustee Critchley and make sure

[0:03:02] Trustee Morrison: he has the dial in in case he's struggling with that.

[0:03:06] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Luckman, Chair Luckman.

[0:03:09] Trustee Luckham: Good morning. I'm here on Thetis Island in L'Aix and in Penelope Territory. A pleasure to be here and work with you. Thank you.

[0:03:18] Trustee Morrison: All right. Trustee Critchley, I feel like we got to get you in here.

[0:03:22] Trustee Critchley: Thank you. It's good morning. David Critchley, coming to you from Denman Island, known as Klaistaij to the Comox people.

[0:03:30] Trustee Critchley: And I have to say my internet is very unstable today. It keeps dropping me out. So I think I'll probably drop the video and just stay in sound.

[0:03:40] Trustee Morrison: Okay, and Trustee Critchley, if you want to dial in if that might be more stable, that's also an option.

[0:03:46] Trustee Critchley: All

[0:03:47] Trustee Morrison: right, thank you.

[0:03:47] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[0:03:49] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Fenton.

[0:03:51] Voice 24: Good morning.

[0:03:53] Voice 24: I'm from Edith, the traditional territories of Connecticut and the Laiakshan peoples.

[0:03:58] Voice 24: And yeah, thank you and welcome for today's conversations.

[0:04:04] Voice 24: Thanks, Bob.

[0:04:04] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[0:04:06] Trustee Morrison: Claire?

[0:04:09] Voice 17: Good morning, committee.

[0:04:10] Voice 17: It's public.

[0:04:11] Voice 17: It's Claire Frader.

[0:04:12] Voice 17: I'm Director of Trust Area Services coming today from the Lekwungen-speaking People's Territory of the Esquimalt and Songhees First Nations.

[0:04:21] Voice 17: Thank you. Dulani?

[0:04:23] Voice 16: Good morning, everyone. I'm Dulani Hipla, Senior Policy Advisor with Trust Area Services, and I'm tuning in today from the territories of the Tlahoos, Tla'amen, and Homolco Nations.

[0:04:34] Trustee Morrison: Thank you. Stefan?

[0:04:36] Voice 16: Good

[0:04:39] Trustee Morrison: morning,

[0:04:42] Voice 1: everybody. Stefan Surmak, your new Director of Planning Services, and I'm

[0:04:47] Voice 1: coming to you today from the unceded territories of the Coast Salish First Nations.

[0:04:51] Trustee Morrison: Thank you. Welcome. And David.

[0:04:55] Voice 2: Hi, good morning, everybody. My name is David Maller. I am the Director of Legislative Services,

[0:05:04] Voice 2: and I'm just handing off and working with Stefan on transition for local planning services.

[0:05:10] Voice 2: services, and I'm coming to you from the Lekwungen speaking peoples in Victoria, so thank you.

[0:05:18] Trustee Morrison: Thank you and Robert for some reason I can't remember if I got you, did I get you?

[0:05:23] Voice 20: No Robert Barlow, good morning everyone, I'm the legislative services clerk and the recorder

[0:05:30] Voice 20: and zoom host for the meeting today and I'm coming, I'm very grateful to be living and

[0:05:34] Voice 20: working in Lekwungen speaking people's territory.

[0:05:38] Voice 20: Troy.

[0:05:39] Trustee Morrison: Thank you. All right. So today, we're grateful to have these electronic meetings

[0:05:47] Trustee Morrison: because it's reducing our carbon footprint and just allowing us to be coming in from different

[0:05:51] Trustee Morrison: places. As we engage in this work, it's been a lot of work to get to this point. And I really

[0:05:57] Trustee Morrison: appreciate folks making the time for this meeting. If we have any challenges as we go with digital,

[0:06:03] Trustee Morrison: we will work it out um and trustee critically just let us know and and maybe if you can reach

[0:06:09] Trustee Morrison: out to um robert if there's any problems as we go along we want to make sure you're in the

[0:06:14] Trustee Morrison: conversation okay and um so i do ask that everyone mutes their mic you're all pretty good at all this

[0:06:23] Trustee Morrison: but i'll just say it um so mutes your mic to reduce the risk of audio disruptions when you're

[0:06:27] Trustee Morrison: not speaking and that we appreciate any any challenges we might run into this is a place

[0:06:34] Trustee Morrison: of employment and a public gathering so despite that we're working in our homes everyone has the

[0:06:39] Trustee Morrison: right to a safe and respectful workplace so we'll keep to that all right so we have an agenda before

[0:06:45] Trustee Morrison: us are there any changes or amendments to the agenda and i do ask that people use the hand

[0:06:54] Trustee Morrison: non-function I will check in with trustee Fenton and trustee Critchley just due to the like the

[0:06:59] Trustee Morrison: things yeah so uh trustee McConkie just

[0:07:04] Trustee McConchie: a quick question about the correspondence we received

[0:07:06] Trustee McConchie: because I kind of went down a babble of rabbit hole last night uh in case law and I wanted to

[0:07:11] Trustee McConchie: know if there's an opportunity to discuss the correspondence that we received and where we're

[0:07:16] Trustee McConchie: going to do that so

[0:07:17] Trustee Morrison: what I would like to do if it's all right with the committee is I'd like to

[0:07:21] Trustee Morrison: to discuss that correspondence as it relates to item 7.1, because I think it may affect some of

[0:07:28] Trustee Morrison: our recommendations in that space. So if we can bring any relevant correspondence to the trust

[0:07:33] Trustee Morrison: policy statement into the conversation of 7.1, that I think would be the best moment to do that.

[0:07:39] Trustee Morrison: And so maybe we start at the top of 7.1 with some just reflections on the correspondence we've

[0:07:43] Trustee Morrison: gotten to help us think collectively about what we might want to recommend. Is that okay? So we

[0:07:52] Trustee Morrison: don't need to adjust the agenda per se but we'll just make sure that and I've made a note on the

[0:07:56] Trustee Morrison: agenda here for myself that we'll pull in those conversations okay any other amendments or

[0:08:02] Trustee Morrison: questions all right um trustee Fenton are you good yeah

[0:08:15] Voice 4: perfect

[0:08:16] Trustee Morrison: all right so I'm going to go

[0:08:19] Trustee Morrison: ahead and accept the agenda by consensus and I do see that trustee Rogers has come in so I'll come

[0:08:25] Trustee Morrison: back to him in just one second um so we'll accept the agenda by consensus with the understanding

[0:08:31] Trustee Morrison: that correspondence will be under 7.1 that's related to the trust policy statement um all

[0:08:39] Trustee Morrison: right so claire can you also just um check for me that is there any public in the meeting oh you're

[0:08:52] Trustee Morrison: muted no there's no one here at this time okay i apologize i am in the south so i'm going to say

[0:08:58] Trustee Morrison: hun a lot that's i've i've been surrounded by people who say hun so i apologize um trustee

[0:09:06] Trustee Morrison: rogers do you want to go ahead and and welcome in say hello oh

[0:09:10] Voice 15: uh yes good morning i'm sorry i'm

[0:09:12] Voice 15: a few minutes late i'm in the traditional territories of the algonquin people on the

[0:09:16] Voice 15: ottawa river uh welcome thank you all

[0:09:21] Trustee Morrison: right so we have no public so there is no item three on

[0:09:26] Trustee Morrison: the agenda and no delegations um correspondence we have from the wicinich leadership council

[0:09:33] Trustee Morrison: do we want to go ahead and share any thoughts about that anyone want to and claire do you

[0:09:40] Trustee Morrison: want to names anything specific about that correspondence uh no not at this time okay

[0:09:48] Trustee Morrison: um does anybody want to discuss any piece of that correspondence oops sorry uh chair luckham go ahead

[0:10:02] Trustee Morrison: you're muted uh

[0:10:06] Trustee Luckham: thank you for the opportunity chair i thought we might speak about it in during

[0:10:10] Trustee Luckham: the um later session but nonetheless um at this moment i would like to seek the interest in the

[0:10:18] Trustee Luckham: in the um this is a significant piece of correspondence um very appreciative

[0:10:22] Trustee Luckham: of the wasonic uh leadership council taking the opportunity to write to us the staff um

[0:10:29] Trustee Luckham: I'd like to seek interest in the committee and advice from staff about forwarding this

[0:10:38] Trustee Luckham: to Minister Rankin's office, Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation, Indigenous Relations and

[0:10:46] Trustee Luckham: Reconciliation, to seek their advice on pursuing the recommendations that are contained in this

[0:10:53] Trustee Luckham: um letter and

[0:10:57] Trustee Morrison: peter if i can press back just in a clarifying question so in forwarding the letter

[0:11:03] Trustee Morrison: some of the recommendations in this correspondence are things that we might integrate into our own

[0:11:08] Trustee Morrison: work um and then others are pieces that are outside the scope of the islands trust per se

[0:11:15] Trustee Morrison: and so what kind of forward would we ask like would we forward like a cover letter with specific

[0:11:26] Trustee Morrison: pieces and asks for it?

[0:11:29] Trustee Luckham: Sure I think that you nailed it down there quite nicely is that there

[0:11:33] Trustee Luckham: are clearly things that are outside of our ability and the current legislation to incorporate or

[0:11:41] Trustee Luckham: or manage. But I think that myself anyway, I'm in support of many of the recommendations that

[0:11:48] Trustee Luckham: have been included in here and suggestions. And clearly, we would need support and assistance

[0:11:55] Trustee Luckham: from the province, ideally through Minister Rankin's office to consider what those might be

[0:12:02] Trustee Luckham: as time goes on but um uh so indeed we can certainly implement those that um uh we are

[0:12:10] Trustee Luckham: already including in the policy statement but there's a number of other issues that um are

[0:12:15] Trustee Luckham: certainly a road that we need to travel and we need to travel that um with support from the province

[0:12:21] Trustee Luckham: i think okay

[0:12:23] Voice 23: steve yes um i um i i have to agree with uh chair luckman i really appreciate the

[0:12:32] Voice 23: fact that they have taken the time to give us a very detailed feedback on this. I find it quite

[0:12:37] Voice 23: refreshing and welcome. I found that most some a lot of this is fairly localized issues as well as

[0:12:46] Voice 23: broad broader policies for the policy statement but I'm wondering whether this letter could be

[0:12:51] Voice 23: forwarded to the Salt Spring and the Southern Guelph Island Trust Committees because I think

[0:12:56] Voice 23: a lot of this information that they provided are is very valuable to any OCP review that we may

[0:13:02] Voice 23: have locally rather than as a broader policy statement.

[0:13:07] Trustee Morrison: Yeah I was thinking about that too

[0:13:09] Trustee Morrison: as well as municipal affairs. I feel like there's a bunch of people that should be in the loop

[0:13:12] Trustee Morrison: on this and maybe one other clarification and before I call on Claire specifically is

[0:13:19] Trustee Morrison: it would be nice to know how correspondence from other First Nations has been

[0:13:24] Trustee Morrison: um channeled because i i have a small concern about making sure that um how we're treating

[0:13:33] Trustee Morrison: this correspondence is not privileged over however we've treated other correspondence

[0:13:37] Trustee Morrison: from first nations so i just want to think that through um so as not to cause any tensions in

[0:13:44] Trustee Morrison: you know place other places so i'm first going to go to case and then i'll come to claire

[0:13:49] Trustee Morrison: yeah

[0:13:50] Voice 21: thank you i really appreciate this letter as well they make a lot of good point

[0:13:55] Voice 21: The one thing I noticed is one of their past recommendation is they say there's a need for

[0:14:00] Voice 21: accumulative impact studies. And I don't know that our current trust policy statement version

[0:14:06] Voice 21: really addresses that clearly. I think that's something that we should look at as we're

[0:14:11] Voice 21: amending, say, if we do amend the DOC policy on that, you know, the accumulative impacts.

[0:14:17] Voice 21: impacts. Thank

[0:14:20] Voice 17: you. Claire? Thank you, Chair Morrison. So my recommendation would be that

[0:14:26] Voice 17: you request staff to raise the issues in the letter when we're meeting with provincial staff,

[0:14:32] Voice 17: because we have a number of meetings that I'm going to be scheduling coming up. I say that

[0:14:35] Voice 17: for a number of reasons. One is the issue that Trustee Morrison raised, that we don't want to

[0:14:38] Voice 17: privilege one letter over the many that we've received from nations. The other is I expect

[0:14:43] Voice 17: these um with sanitary leadership council and other nations have their own relationships with

[0:14:49] Voice 17: governments we'd want to seek their consent before we share a letter they wrote with us

[0:14:52] Voice 17: um with the province because of course they're undertaking their own meetings with the province

[0:14:56] Voice 17: and are raising issues in their own way um so i wouldn't want to step you know interrupt that with

[0:15:01] Voice 17: by sharing this letter um so my recommendation is that perhaps we can raise the issues that have

[0:15:05] Voice 17: been raised but if you would like to share i would want to go back to them and seek consent

[0:15:10] Voice 17: before we forward it on to the province and perhaps get in the way of a conversation that's

[0:15:13] Voice 17: already underway between them and the province thank

[0:15:16] Trustee Morrison: you claire um so maybe um i could i can

[0:15:23] Trustee Morrison: make a or somebody could make a motion that we um have staff synthesize feedback that is for the

[0:15:32] Trustee Morrison: province and suggest you know suggest this is feedback that we need to um communicate to the

[0:15:38] Trustee Morrison: province in some way and then there's a separate motion i think that is within our purview and not

[0:15:43] Trustee Morrison: outside any kind of privileging issue that would be from Steve, I do think this should go to any

[0:15:50] Trustee Morrison: of the Wasinage Territory LTCs. So the letter should be forwarded out to all the LTCs related

[0:15:56] Trustee Morrison: to that. And I think for our own in North Pender, it could inform our land use conversations.

[0:16:01] Trustee Morrison: So if somebody wants to make such motions, that would be very helpful.

[0:16:15] Voice 3: Go ahead, Steve.

[0:16:16] Voice 3: I'll

[0:16:18] Voice 23: note that the Health Policy Committee forwarded the letter from the WSANIC Leadership

[0:16:24] Voice 23: Council to all local trustees within the WSANIC territory.

[0:16:31] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[0:16:32] Trustee Morrison: Second on that?

[0:16:36] Voice 21: I'll second it.

[0:16:38] Trustee Morrison: Thanks, Kayce.

[0:16:42] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[0:16:43] Trustee Morrison: Any discussion on that motion?

[0:16:46] Trustee Morrison: Ben?

[0:16:47] Trustee Morrison: I

[0:16:48] Trustee McConchie: just have a point of clarification.

[0:16:49] Trustee McConchie: clarification so claire just said she wants to go back to ask the wasanic before we share it and now

[0:16:55] Trustee McConchie: we're saying this motion puts on the table that we're going to share it is that correct that's my

[0:16:59] Trustee McConchie: first question just to clarify so

[0:17:01] Trustee Morrison: the the this motion doesn't share it externally from the

[0:17:05] Trustee Morrison: islands trust it shares it internally in the islands trust so that's not outside that's fine

[0:17:09] Trustee McConchie: i see what you're saying then the other question i had was this i know that the wasanic leadership

[0:17:14] Trustee McConchie: ship were not able to voice their opinion on this so essentially this letter would be the equivalent

[0:17:19] Trustee McConchie: of getting like the staff from the island's trust right to write and then it hasn't been quite signed

[0:17:26] Trustee McConchie: off yet so um i'm just wondering like that the structure of i mean how does how does that work

[0:17:34] Trustee McConchie: essentially um what what uh is that okay if we imagine if we just sent the staff to everybody

[0:17:43] Trustee McConchie: else I mean it didn't the trustees didn't sign off on something does that have any implication or

[0:17:48] Trustee McConchie: or does that make the recommendations any different you know what I'm saying I'm because

[0:17:53] Trustee McConchie: I'm not quite sure no one's in political science taught the how the WSANIC leadership is structured

[0:17:57] Trustee McConchie: right because this is all new stuff so I'm just curious if there's any thoughts Claire

[0:18:03] Voice 17: do you want

[0:18:03] Voice 17: to um so Delaney maybe I could refer to Delaney who's been more I've been away she's been a more

[0:18:09] Voice 17: active conversation yeah

[0:18:11] Voice 16: so it yeah thanks claire it might be a bit helpful to give a bit more

[0:18:16] Voice 16: context to why we received this letter um so basically um in the second phase of early and

[0:18:22] Voice 16: meaningful engagement we received feedback from i think it was seven nations um and all of them

[0:18:29] Voice 16: um submitted their feedback prior to the june trust council meeting was saying it didn't have

[0:18:36] Voice 16: have time to do their detailed review prior to the agenda cutoff deadline. So they said they sent us

[0:18:41] Voice 16: a letter at that time, a high level letter, and said that they would be sending more detailed

[0:18:45] Voice 16: feedback prior to the August 26 TPC meeting. So that's what you see here. It's basically an

[0:18:52] Voice 16: extension of that kind of review process. So for the other letters or feedback that we received,

[0:18:59] Voice 16: what we did was we summarized it in the June Trust Council agenda package, and we posted each

[0:19:05] Voice 16: of the entries to the Islands 2050 website for the trustees to each view there.

[0:19:12] Voice 16: So we could do that with this letter.

[0:19:15] Voice 16: I think the majority of the feedback we received was from the staff level at these nations,

[0:19:22] Voice 16: but WSAN Leadership Council has specifically mentioned in this letter that they would like,

[0:19:27] Voice 16: you know, that they've highlighted that this hasn't passed through their advisory committee

[0:19:31] Voice 16: of the electeds.

[0:19:33] Voice 16: So, so that's, yeah, it's an important factor to consider in terms of sharing it externally, sharing it internally, like posting it to our website or sending it to our trustees. I don't think they would have issue with that.

[0:19:50] Trustee Morrison: Okay. So I think that is something for us to consider that maybe at this point, we, it becomes part of the synthesized conversation and feedback we're getting on the trust statement, not a singled out kind of conversation. Sorry, Ben, go ahead.

[0:20:03] Trustee Morrison: If

[0:20:03] Trustee McConchie: I can just follow up, I just want folks to be really clear that, you know, it's a letter from staff, right, and not the decision makers. And that's all. And I don't necessarily think that the leadership would be opposed to these suggestions. Nonetheless, you know, nonetheless, it's just an important note. Thanks.

[0:20:19] Trustee Morrison: No, that's a good call.

[0:20:21] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Rogers.

[0:20:23] just

[0:20:26] Voice 15: a point of clarification on the motion i think the motion read to forward it to trustees

[0:20:33] Voice 15: um i i don't know if it because that doesn't necessarily end up as a formal letter to local

[0:20:40] Voice 15: trust committees so is the intention that i go to an ltc where it would end up on an agenda

[0:20:46] Voice 15: if it was for it or is it just going to the trustees and i i don't have a position one way

[0:20:51] Voice 15: or another, I just wanted to get some clarity on what the intention of the motion is and whether

[0:20:57] Voice 15: it's just going to be forwarded to trustees or go to an LTC, in which case it would end up on

[0:21:03] Voice 15: an agenda as a public document. Thanks.

[0:21:05] Trustee Morrison: Okay, I'm going to pause us just for one second.

[0:21:07] Trustee Morrison: I really need when we're sharing things just for us to say it once, because it just doubles our

[0:21:13] Trustee Morrison: meeting time. So if we can just like say it once and move on, that would be really helpful.

[0:21:19] Trustee Morrison: for. Steve, did you want to clarify what you were wanting?

[0:21:26] Voice 23: Well, if Trustee Rogers is suggesting a friendly amendment to change the word trustees to LTCs,

[0:21:32] Voice 23: I'm perfectly okay with that.

[0:21:33] Trustee Morrison: Okay. And I don't remember who seconded that.

[0:21:40] Trustee Morrison: Case is a seconder.

[0:21:41] Trustee Morrison: It was Case. Yeah. So if that's okay,

[0:21:43] Trustee Morrison: Case, we'll go ahead and change that.

[0:21:44] Voice 21: Yeah, I'm fine with that. I have one other

[0:21:46] Voice 21: suggestion that we add the word staff after leadership council to clarify I think the

[0:21:53] Voice 21: motion what referenced the leadership council but didn't use the term staff so that should be added

[0:21:59] Voice 21: thank

[0:21:59] Trustee Morrison: you can we get the motion that works for

[0:22:02] Voice 21: me thank

[0:22:10] Trustee Morrison: you thank you very much okay so it was

[0:22:17] Trustee Morrison: moved and seconded that the trust programs committee forward the letter of august 25th

[0:22:21] Trustee Morrison: 2022 from west india leadership council staff to the local trust committees not councils in their

[0:22:28] Trustee Morrison: territory okay so that's appropriate trustee right okay all right so any other uh so any

[0:22:37] Trustee Morrison: other conversation on this motion uh delaney i

[0:22:42] Voice 16: just want to highlight that their letter was

[0:22:43] Voice 16: not dated august 25th i don't know if that's important to the motion

[0:22:47] Trustee Morrison: let's get it the

[0:22:48] Trustee Morrison: the correct date on that.

[0:22:50] Trustee Morrison: It was dated.

[0:22:53] Trustee Morrison: August 4th.

[0:22:55] Trustee Morrison: August 4th, thank you.

[0:22:58] Trustee Morrison: Okay, any other conversation directly on this motion?

[0:23:02] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Acase?

[0:23:05] Trustee Morrison: No, Trustee or Chair Luckham?

[0:23:10] Trustee Morrison: Muted.

[0:23:12] Trustee Luckham: Just as the ex officio, I won't be voting,

[0:23:16] Trustee Luckham: just wanna ask a question.

[0:23:20] Trustee Luckham: The content in this letter is significant

[0:23:25] Trustee Luckham: for us to consider in our First Nations relations throughout the trust area.

[0:23:31] Trustee Luckham: Some of the principles are the same that are articulated by other nations.

[0:23:34] Trustee Luckham: And whether or not do we are we intending to limit it

[0:23:38] Trustee Luckham: to the local trust committees in their territory?

[0:23:41] Trustee Luckham: Because I think this could would also be valuable for all trustees.

[0:23:46] Trustee Luckham: So that's

[0:23:47] Trustee Morrison: what I would say.

[0:23:47] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, what I would suggest is that this is specific for the LTC committee,

[0:23:52] Trustee Morrison: like the LTCs for the work in those territories for what you're suggesting if you can think

[0:23:58] Trustee Morrison: through another motion or how others can think through another motion they would forward it out

[0:24:02] Trustee Morrison: to or forward it up to trust council for inclusion in the September packet that would be the right

[0:24:08] Trustee Morrison: move thank you all right if I can go ahead and take a vote on this motion all those in favor

[0:24:15] Trustee Morrison: if you can raise hands and trustee Luckett if you can lower your hand and thank you very trust

[0:24:26] Trustee Morrison: very much trustee Fenton for finding your helpful little digital hand okay um go ahead and lower

[0:24:32] Trustee Morrison: your hands that was unanimous um all right is does anybody want to go ahead and make a second

[0:24:43] Trustee Morrison: motion related to this correspondence such as forwarding it to trust council we all need to be

[0:24:59] Trustee Morrison: a little more caffeinated this morning trustee right I

[0:25:02] Voice 23: will move that the trust programs committee

[0:25:04] Voice 23: committee forward the letter from the Saanich leadership staff to Trust Council for consideration.

[0:25:12] Trustee Morrison: And my question here is whether it has to go to Executive Committee first or if we just

[0:25:18] Trustee Morrison: forward it directly to Trust Council, if someone can clarify before we get a second on this.

[0:25:23] Trustee Morrison: Tim? No, okay. Trustee Luckham or Claire?

[0:25:33] Voice 16: You can forward it to Trust Council in the

[0:25:39] Voice 16: the resolution it will go via executive committee yeah that's and i would

[0:25:44] Voice 17: i would also add it is

[0:25:45] Voice 17: already posted to the island's 2050 page which we hope trustees are looking at you know in their

[0:25:50] Voice 17: preparation for consideration of policy statements so it is there as well but no harm in forwarding

[0:25:54] Voice 17: it if you wish yeah

[0:25:55] Trustee Morrison: and so the goal would be that it would be included in the september packet i

[0:25:59] Trustee Morrison: think or that it would just be forwarded to trustees i'm not sure what the necessarily

[0:26:04] Trustee Morrison: which direction we want to go so right now this would just be forwarded as an email

[0:26:08] Trustee Morrison: Yeah.

[0:26:10] Voice 3: Okay. Okay. Steve, are we good with that? Yes.

[0:26:18] Voice 3: Okay. Can I get a second on this motion?

[0:26:23] Trustee Morrison: I'm going to go Ben on that one. Okay. Any conversation on this motion? All right. I'm

[0:26:33] Trustee Morrison: going to go ahead and call the vote. All those in favor? Okay. Hands down. That was unanimous.

[0:26:50] Trustee Morrison: Thank you very much. Trustee Colburn. Oh, sorry. Was that just a remnant hand up? Sorry about that.

[0:27:00] Trustee Morrison: okay okay all right so we'll take that into consideration as well um the contents of that

[0:27:09] Trustee Morrison: letter as we're moving into our recommendations um all right i'm having screen up and down issues

[0:27:18] Trustee Morrison: today i

[0:27:21] Voice 3: see what the problem is a

[0:27:29] Trustee Morrison: technical issue on my computer okay um all right so

[0:27:35] Trustee Morrison: So next is delegation correspondence.

[0:27:42] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so we're on 6.1 draft minutes.

[0:27:45] Trustee Morrison: Are there any edits to the draft minutes from July 8th, 2022?

[0:27:50] Trustee Morrison: Tim?

[0:27:57] Voice 14: Yeah, sorry, I

[0:27:59] Voice 12: wasn't quite done with the last item there.

[0:28:02] Voice 12: We didn't ask staff to engage with the province at all.

[0:28:08] Voice 12: And I was going to move that.

[0:28:12] Voice 12: but also I wanted to make the following motion. So I move that RPC request staff to engage with

[0:28:20] Voice 12: the Osanoc Leadership Council to request permission to address this correspondence

[0:28:31] Voice 12: with the province.

[0:28:36] Trustee Morrison: Okay so if we can see that motion on the screen and if we can spell out

[0:28:51] Trustee Morrison: the OSNH Leadership Council. That'd be good. To request permission to address the correspondence

[0:28:58] Trustee Morrison: and maybe the correspondence of August 4th, 2022.

[0:29:03] Voice 9: Sure. Perfect. Yeah.

[0:29:13] Trustee Morrison: Okay. And if we can just

[0:29:14] Trustee Morrison: change to address the correspondence, that would be perfect. Okay. Anything else, Tim,

[0:29:19] Trustee Morrison: does that look okay?

[0:29:22] Voice 11: That looks great. Thank you.

[0:29:23] Trustee Morrison: Okay. Any other suggestions on this, like

[0:29:26] Trustee Morrison: the wording of this to make it right, Claire, Delaney, anything? I think that looks good. Thank

[0:29:32] Trustee Morrison: you. Okay. Do we have a second on this motion? I'm going to say, is that our second trustee,

[0:29:43] Trustee Morrison: right? Yeah. Okay. So a second by trustee, right? All right. Any conversation on this motion,

[0:29:49] Trustee Morrison: trustee Brent? Oh, okay. So it's different hand. Okay. Anybody else for conversation on this motion?

[0:30:01] Trustee Morrison: Trustee McConkie?

[0:30:03] Trustee McConchie: Just a point of clarification, just wondering what does that mean?

[0:30:06] Trustee McConchie: Like, do you guys pick up the phone and you've got somebody on speed dial there, Claire?

[0:30:09] Trustee McConchie: Okay.

[0:30:10] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, that's right.

[0:30:10] Trustee McConchie: Okay, great.

[0:30:11] Trustee McConchie: Awesome.

[0:30:13] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[0:30:14] Trustee Morrison: All right.

[0:30:15] Trustee Morrison: If I can go ahead and have called a vote on this.

[0:30:19] Trustee Morrison: All those in favor?

[0:30:20] Trustee Morrison: All right.

[0:30:26] Trustee Morrison: Hands down, please.

[0:30:27] Trustee Morrison: That passes unanimously.

[0:30:29] Trustee Morrison: Aren't we just all in agreement today?

[0:30:32] Trustee Morrison: And Trustee Brent, I believe you had your hand up.

[0:30:35] Trustee Morrison: did you have something else that you wanted to name that's still inside this correspondence piece

[0:30:40] Trustee Morrison: it

[0:30:41] Voice 5: just didn't go i thought it went down i obviously didn't so i

[0:30:44] Trustee Morrison: just want to check trustee

[0:30:46] Trustee Morrison: rogers did you have one too or no just hand hands up and down issues okay trustee peterson

[0:30:55] Voice 12: yeah so just to clarify with director freighter um so we've now asked for uh staff to to talk to

[0:31:05] Voice 12: the leadership council and then would you like another motion to uh address these issues with

[0:31:11] Voice 12: the province i we don't need to give you a direction certainly

[0:31:17] Voice 17: if you'd like to pass that

[0:31:18] Voice 17: um we don't i mean certainly i think the intent is captured in the prior motion but if you'd like

[0:31:22] Voice 17: to pass one specifically you could oh

[0:31:25] Voice 12: okay fine i just wanted to check in with you i i kind of

[0:31:28] Voice 12: thought it was too but i just okay

[0:31:30] Trustee Morrison: all right anything else on this correspondence i'm gonna

[0:31:39] Trustee Morrison: I'll give you a little more wait time because I was too fast last time.

[0:31:42] Trustee Morrison: We're good?

[0:31:43] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[0:31:44] Trustee Morrison: We're going to go ahead and move on to 6.1.1.

[0:31:52] Trustee Morrison: I don't think we finished there.

[0:31:54] Trustee Morrison: Any edits to the minutes of July 8th?

[0:32:04] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[0:32:05] Trustee Morrison: So seeing no edits, I'm going to go ahead and accept those with consensus.

[0:32:10] Trustee Morrison: census um and that brings us to no resolutions without meeting follow-up action list if we can

[0:32:22] Trustee Morrison: anybody have anything they want to name on the follow-up action list um i had a one quick

[0:32:33] Trustee Morrison: question so this meeting is the last meeting of the trust programs committee for this term

[0:32:38] Trustee Morrison: okay so the follow-up action list we should think about this a little bit in terms of this is what

[0:32:45] Trustee Morrison: what the new term is going to look at, um, uh, going into that. So if we can take just a moment

[0:32:52] Trustee Morrison: and really check it out and we're on page, um, 18. Is that right? Yeah. 18. Would you like me

[0:33:04] Trustee Morrison: to walk you through each one? Yeah, I think actually we should, we should just take this

[0:33:08] Trustee Morrison: moment and be a little bit specific about it. Yeah. Okay.

[0:33:11] Voice 17: So I'll start with number one here.

[0:33:13] Voice 17: Um, so I recommend you keep this one. This is the crown land protocol, which unfortunately has been

[0:33:18] Voice 17: been in the works for over a decade and simply just can't get to the top of the pile. But I

[0:33:23] Voice 17: recommend you keep this. I do feel it's important that we try to get the Crown land agreements

[0:33:28] Voice 17: reconciled into one modern agreement. We do have a good contact at Flenro, but unfortunately,

[0:33:33] Voice 17: we had the policy statement project at our end and they had a restructuring at their end

[0:33:37] Voice 17: that really interrupted the work that we did have underway. So my recommendation would be to

[0:33:42] Voice 17: continue into the new term.

[0:33:45] Trustee Morrison: Okay. Any thoughts or comments on that? I'm going to take no thoughts

[0:33:50] Trustee Morrison: or comments as it stays on the list, just to be clear.

[0:33:55] Voice 17: Okay, perhaps I'll ask if David Marler is

[0:33:58] Voice 17: available to speak to this one, what recommendations he might have, because this really is a, or it

[0:34:03] Voice 17: might be one that you want to provide to RPC instead of Trust Programs Committee, because it

[0:34:07] Voice 17: really speaks to more of a planning matter. Okay, which one are you talking about? Number, the first,

[0:34:15] Voice 17: this one

[0:34:16] Trustee Morrison: here around the MODIS road standards. Okay, David, do you want to add anything?

[0:34:23] Voice 2: Yeah, thank you. I don't have a

[0:34:25] Voice 2: lot to add. It is definitely something that probably should be done with the Director of Local Planning Services and Regional Planning Managers.

[0:34:33] Voice 2: We do have an annual meeting with the staff. We did discuss the idea of doing something around road standards and active transportation through some form of a letter, but not an actual amendment to the agreement,

[0:34:55] Voice 2: simply because both the agreements are signed by the chair of the Islands Trust and also the minister.

[0:35:03] Voice 2: And probably getting the minister to sign something could be problematic.

[0:35:07] Voice 2: But there's things we can do within the agreement that would address some of these issues.

[0:35:12] Voice 2: So it's a long way of saying that at the next meeting, we should definitely have an agenda item,

[0:35:19] Voice 2: and probably a robust ask of the ministry staff

[0:35:23] Voice 2: from planning and Islands Trust staff.

[0:35:27] Trustee Morrison: And so for me, and Stefan,

[0:35:30] Trustee Morrison: I also want to give you an opportunity,

[0:35:31] Trustee Morrison: but I don't want to totally put you on the spot.

[0:35:33] Trustee Morrison: So just know I'm coming to you in a second.

[0:35:36] Trustee Morrison: So I also have a question with relation to this one

[0:35:40] Trustee Morrison: is it seems to me that this falls solidly

[0:35:44] Trustee Morrison: into regional planning or planning more generally.

[0:35:47] Trustee Morrison: And I'm wondering why it's here on our list versus on planning, if somebody can clarify that for me, because I would prefer to, and this is probably also part of our governance review conversation that is going on.

[0:36:02] Trustee Morrison: It's not necessarily good for us to have it in multiple places if it's, you know, it takes up time and resources in different places.

[0:36:08] Trustee Morrison: So if there's a more logical home for it in regional planning, maybe we could ask that this be moved over to regional planning's list.

[0:36:15] Trustee Morrison: Stephanie, do you have comments on that?

[0:36:17] Voice 1: I have many. One, I'll say the Regional Planning Committee's follow-up action list is a behemoth. It's very big and unwieldy, and it's likely to be axed. That's just my two bits.

[0:36:32] Voice 1: But to my understanding of this, this is in relation to agreements, whether they be MOUs, letter of agreements, those kind of things.

[0:36:42] Voice 1: And my understanding was, you know, the executive committee is essentially in charge of agreements.

[0:36:48] Voice 1: And so, you know, why I came here, I can't answer.

[0:36:52] Voice 1: But that was my understanding of it's either executive committee or the chair that or the CAO that signs those types of agreements because it's a provincial, it's a ministry.

[0:37:03] Voice 1: But other than that, you know, road standards, I have been as an RPM at those meetings and they quite often were trying to be bullies in a sense, saying if you open up that agreement, we'll tear it up.

[0:37:13] Voice 1: And so I think that caused us pause.

[0:37:16] Voice 1: But I'm sure Director Marner has more to comment on the historical meetings that we've had.

[0:37:21] Trustee Morrison: And I don't necessarily want to get into all the details here, because I

[0:37:25] Trustee Morrison: don't know that that's a good use of our time and our mandate in this committee.

[0:37:29] Trustee Morrison: But I do want to try and get it to the right space for whoever that is.

[0:37:33] Trustee Morrison: So maybe what it is, is actually pushing it up to the executive at this point.

[0:37:36] Trustee Morrison: I don't know. So thoughts on that would be really helpful to hear from committee members.

[0:37:40] Trustee Morrison: David, do you have something to clarify? I don't want to go into a history lesson on this, just to be clear.

[0:37:44] Trustee Morrison: there. Okay, go for it.

[0:37:45] Voice 2: No, no, just wanted to clarify. I think what I was going to suggest

[0:37:47] Voice 2: is that I agree it shouldn't be the Regional Planning Committee. It's either this committee

[0:37:52] Voice 2: or executive because it's definitely agreements and that's I think falls in this committee and

[0:37:58] Voice 2: executives area. What I was going to say though is I think to do this right, we need to get it

[0:38:04] Voice 2: onto an agenda with staff resources put behind it. I think it's going to take a bit of work

[0:38:10] Voice 2: for us to figure out specifically what is it that we want to ask and maybe even draft it

[0:38:17] Voice 2: so we can take something to the ministry staff and say this is what we'd like to do

[0:38:21] Voice 2: i think just going to the ministry staff and saying we would like to do this but we don't

[0:38:26] Voice 2: have any time to do it they don't have time to do it it's just going to get lost so it needs to be

[0:38:32] Voice 2: given a priority on one of the committees whichever one that's going to be just do right

[0:38:37] Trustee Morrison: I

[0:38:39] Voice 23: move that the Trust Programs Committee remove this item from our list and refer it to the Executive Committee to respond to it.

[0:38:51] Trustee Morrison: Okay, a second from Trustee McConkey.

[0:38:54] Trustee Morrison: Okay, I'm going to put myself on the speaker's list on this one. Does anybody else want to speak to this motion and can we get the motion up on the screen?

[0:39:07] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so while that is getting up I'm going to weigh in a little bit on it.

[0:39:12] Trustee Morrison: so um and actually maybe just re did we get it there trust programs committee move

[0:39:20] Trustee Morrison: um and what are we going to call the item it's item number one on um and we don't have short

[0:39:30] Trustee Morrison: titles on these i'm wondering about actually creating short titles on some of these items so

[0:39:34] Trustee Morrison: they're more referable um so that might be just a good practice across the trust to create short

[0:39:41] Trustee Morrison: short titles for each of the items on the task list, because it's hard to reference them.

[0:39:46] Voice 21: Perhaps just cite the date.

[0:39:49] Trustee Morrison: Yeah. So November 5th, 2020, item number one on our follow-up action report.

[0:40:10] Trustee Morrison: Okay. To the EC. Okay. Does that motion look right to staff or anything to make it the thing

[0:40:17] Trustee Morrison: that we want happen where this item goes to the executive committee okay to the executive

[0:40:25] Trustee Morrison: committee uh and refer it to the executive committee yeah okay all right um so we had a

[0:40:31] Trustee Morrison: second by trustee mcconkey okay so my comment on this one would be that i really think um

[0:40:40] Trustee Morrison: given there's a lot of different moving pieces to changes right now in the trust and how we're

[0:40:45] Trustee Morrison: thinking about like what work different committees do as we are refining the policy statement as

[0:40:49] Trustee Morrison: refining workload. I do think this is a little bit of a task organizing issue that the executive

[0:40:57] Trustee Morrison: committee should look at. It likely could come back down to trust programs committee, but if it

[0:41:02] Trustee Morrison: does, it should come back down with funding to do it if it's important. Otherwise, I kind of feel

[0:41:08] Trustee Morrison: like executives should hold it and figure out where to handle it because we're going to run

[0:41:12] Trustee Morrison: into that. I think with a lot of different things and regional planning sounds like they're hitting

[0:41:16] Trustee Morrison: it to like we were essentially swamped with the trust policy statement work this term and there's

[0:41:21] Trustee Morrison: a number of other things we're not getting to so we just need that to be an executive committee

[0:41:25] Trustee Morrison: management decision about where those things go um and i actually am not convinced that it belongs

[0:41:32] Trustee Morrison: in trust programs committee if it's if we don't have any yeah so i'm just not convinced about it

[0:41:37] Trustee Morrison: we could potentially give advice related to some of the implications for trust policy statement but

[0:41:42] Trustee Morrison: but I don't know that we should be drafting it.

[0:41:43] Trustee Morrison: I'm not sure that's the right role.

[0:41:46] Trustee Morrison: Any other people have, trustees have comments

[0:41:50] Trustee Morrison: or questions, thoughts?

[0:41:56] Trustee Morrison: Case?

[0:41:57] Voice 21: I just should recite something

[0:42:00] Voice 21: about why we're referring it to EEC.

[0:42:03] Voice 21: They may say what?

[0:42:05] Trustee Morrison: No, I don't think we need to in motion,

[0:42:07] Trustee Morrison: but maybe I was wondering if we should put in

[0:42:10] Trustee Morrison: like a little bit more, like maybe in brackets,

[0:42:12] Trustee Morrison: brackets you know mous with like something a little bit textual for the content of the thing

[0:42:20] Trustee Morrison: so in case there's any confusion in notes it's not lost what the content was so it's like

[0:42:25] Trustee Morrison: moti mous just in brackets that's kind of an in-between case if that's okay the saving grace

[0:42:35] Voice 21: is half ec is here anyway i

[0:42:37] Trustee Morrison: know right but we want our documentation to like mimic and has

[0:42:41] Trustee Morrison: some clarity and real meaning to it so okay okay so if that's okay with the mover and seconder the

[0:42:47] Trustee Morrison: adjustment on the motion okay i'm getting me yeah okay um trustee rogers um

[0:42:56] Voice 15: yeah i'll just say of

[0:43:00] Voice 15: course uh we don't have the ec doesn't have any money per se that it controls it works within the

[0:43:09] Voice 15: budget that's set by trust council so what would likely happen is is we'll talk about how whether

[0:43:16] Voice 15: this is and i don't want to second guess what the other three ec members will do we'll say is we'll

[0:43:22] Voice 15: we'll say uh all right if this is a project that they want us to work on the mous with the

[0:43:29] Voice 15: ministry of transportation uh and as stefan said it needs money attached and staffing attached to

[0:43:35] Voice 15: it then we maybe take it to the trust council for an ask for either an amendment to the budget or

[0:43:39] Voice 15: perhaps bring it as a as a anyway i don't want to get too far ahead of myself i'm just sort of

[0:43:45] Voice 15: saying out loud what i think will happen if it comes to the ec so there you go

[0:43:49] Voice 18: probably

[0:43:50] Voice 15: end up

[0:43:51] Voice 15: as a a project or a proposal for the next budget or something or something like that no that sounds

[0:43:58] Trustee Morrison: good and that sounds appropriate to me and not something that we necessarily want to handle here

[0:44:02] Trustee Morrison: or it's not knowing all the moving pieces so um my concern i think with this one is that it sits

[0:44:07] Trustee Morrison: between two committees in some ways and so it seems like it it should be managed a little bit

[0:44:11] Trustee Morrison: higher all right i'm going to go ahead and call the vote on this motion all those in favor okay

[0:44:30] Trustee Morrison: right um so i'm can i have hands down and any opposed okay trustee colburn i didn't register

[0:44:45] Trustee Morrison: your vote did you want to vote on that one no

[0:44:51] Voice 14: thank you okay

[0:44:52] Trustee Morrison: all right so that passes all right

[0:45:04] Trustee Morrison: so the item number two on the follow-up action list for November 5th

[0:45:10] Voice 17: so yeah so this one was

[0:45:13] Voice 17: added really at the request of trustee Peterson asking staff to work with him to refine the

[0:45:20] Voice 17: policy statement amendment policy and I'll let him speak perhaps but just to summarize I think

[0:45:24] Voice 17: the request was that we look at amending this amendment policy such that there was an annual

[0:45:30] Voice 17: review of the policy statement. I think what we've learned this term is that that's not essentially

[0:45:36] Voice 17: doable given the need for First Nation engagement and the timelines that we look at when we are

[0:45:42] Voice 17: undertaking an amendment. I think staff's view is that likely we can probably only get one major

[0:45:47] Voice 17: or amendment done in a year in a term rather than annually but perhaps chair Morrison I can

[0:45:54] Voice 17: recommend you look to trustee Peterson to speak to the

[0:45:56] Trustee Morrison: rationale here and trustee Peterson as you

[0:45:59] Trustee Morrison: talk about this if you can name if you think that this still likely belongs in trust programs

[0:46:05] Trustee Morrison: committee or if if this conversation is like in a different committee so if you can speak to why

[0:46:11] Trustee Morrison: it's here that would be helpful yeah

[0:46:15] Voice 10: thank you chair so

[0:46:17] Voice 12: um i think most of us would recognize

[0:46:19] Voice 12: that the current uh iteration of the trust policy review um due to the lengthy period of time that's

[0:46:27] Voice 12: happened since the last substantive review has resulted in a very large project um very complex

[0:46:36] Voice 12: plaques, a lot of moving parts, a lot to try and communicate and explain. And looking actually at

[0:46:42] Voice 12: the policy, which talks about the policy statement review, we're way behind our timeline. The effort,

[0:46:51] Voice 12: the idea here was to try and avoid Trust Council getting into this big of a problem again with so

[0:47:00] Voice 12: so much of a backlog.

[0:47:03] Voice 12: Again, as Claire mentioned,

[0:47:05] Voice 12: due to First Nations consultation requirements,

[0:47:12] Voice 12: an actual review every year becomes a big problem

[0:47:22] Voice 12: in terms of all that consultation.

[0:47:26] Voice 12: We may want to look at a review,

[0:47:30] Voice 12: be yearly review of topics and a review every term. The intent, though, was to not let

[0:47:38] Voice 12: so much build up again. So I think it's still relevant. You know, my name on there is probably

[0:47:46] Voice 12: less relevant as we're going into election and who knows who will be on this committee next time.

[0:47:52] Voice 12: um but uh i think the issue is still really relevant right

[0:48:00] Trustee Morrison: so um do we need to amend it at

[0:48:03] Trustee Morrison: all for or maybe just ask the staff to sort of write it more generically that it's not just

[0:48:08] Trustee Morrison: trustee peterson but the the policy should be looked at maybe that's a shift

[0:48:12] Voice 12: yeah i think i

[0:48:15] Voice 12: think that's a good idea to remove my name and just give it a rewrite and maybe just uh maybe

[0:48:21] Voice 12: maybe the idea is just to examine the amendment policy,

[0:48:27] Voice 12: you know, looking at the frequency,

[0:48:29] Voice 12: obviously next trust programs committee

[0:48:32] Voice 12: is gonna have to make those determinations

[0:48:34] Voice 12: about what's appropriate.

[0:48:37] Voice 12: You know, I just threw out some ideas there,

[0:48:39] Voice 12: but that doesn't mean that's what they're gonna do.

[0:48:42] Voice 12: So I agree, I think it would be great

[0:48:45] Voice 12: if we could have, do you want a resolution on that Claire?

[0:48:52] Voice 17: i think um i guess i defer to robert i think we can tweak it without a resolution

[0:48:58] Voice 17: but i would defer to robert see if he wants a resolution around just shifting the wording a

[0:49:02] Voice 17: little bit and we'll know we can discuss this further when we get to the recommendations

[0:49:05] Voice 17: around the policy statement as well um i think at this point i'm comfortable proceeding um

[0:49:11] Voice 17: to just tweak it without a resolution but if robert feels one is necessary then we could

[0:49:15] Voice 17: ask for one okay

[0:49:18] Trustee Morrison: hearing nothing let's assume that we'll just go ahead and tweak it robert's

[0:49:21] Trustee Morrison: going not so so if we can just wait i'm just waiting for him to unmute go ahead robert

[0:49:25] Voice 20: uh there is no need for a resolution that we understand the intention of the committee

[0:49:31] Trustee Morrison: thank you all right all right if you could scroll down please

[0:49:38] Trustee Morrison: february 5th

[0:49:38] Voice 17: number one all right uh so this one this one i've lost track of somewhat so

[0:49:45] Voice 17: i'm going to turn to you to um see if there's a committee member that could remember at the

[0:49:49] Voice 17: At last term, there was certainly concern around service integration was a big theme, around how do we ensure that different bodies are working together, regional districts, the trust, other levels of government are working well to ensure that services are delivered in a coordinated manner.

[0:50:06] Voice 17: particularly this was a theme of the salt spring referendum around incorporation was a concern that integration wasn't happening. And there was a request that that we all look at how we can undertake work to do this.

[0:50:22] Voice 17: Subsequently there was the governance review that looked at the trust and how it operates and we have recommendations from that report that are now with the governance committee.

[0:50:31] Voice 17: So you may have been somewhat overtaken by events, but I would look to trustees to guide what they want to have happened with this resolution.

[0:50:37] Voice 17: And if you did want to send it anywhere, it might be best over with the Governance Committee that now exists.

[0:50:43] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, yeah, I think so too. Tim?

[0:50:47] Voice 12: Yeah, so I was going to, we'll just let the discussion happen, but I was also going to suggest this is a prime thing to refer to the Governance Committee.

[0:50:58] Voice 12: so

[0:50:59] Trustee Morrison: if you want to go ahead and put a motion on the table that will it be expedient for us to

[0:51:03] Trustee Morrison: keep moving oh

[0:51:04] Voice 12: okay wonderful so i move that um uh item uh one of uh february 5th 2021 from the

[0:51:17] Voice 12: follow-up action let's be referred to the governance committee okay

[0:51:22] Trustee Morrison: if we can get that

[0:51:23] Trustee Morrison: motion in front of us okay and it'll be item number one yeah um so trust programs committee

[0:51:58] Trustee Morrison: move item number one from the february 5th 2021 of the fuel on the fuel or however you frame that

[0:52:08] Trustee Morrison: yeah um and refer it to the governance community okay um uh tim is that motion accurate for what

[0:52:20] Trustee Morrison: you're intending yeah

[0:52:23] Voice 10: i think that captured thank you

[0:52:25] Trustee Morrison: okay and do we have a second steve are you

[0:52:28] Trustee Morrison: seconding it okay any comments on this motion that haven't been said yet anything that we need to add

[0:52:34] Trustee Morrison: all right i'm going to go ahead and call the vote on this motion all those in favor okay hands down

[0:52:56] Trustee Morrison: down, please. Steve, can I get your hand down to any opposed? Okay, that passes. And now let's go

[0:53:22] Trustee Morrison: down to we're on May 14. Item number one. So this is,

[0:53:33] Voice 17: this is one where I had hoped to have it on

[0:53:36] Voice 17: this agenda. And just apologies, we just haven't had sufficient capacity to do so through the

[0:53:40] Voice 17: summer. But essentially, you had looked, we're looking for criteria to help you assess which

[0:53:47] Voice 17: which Secretariat Services requests you would want to offer support to.

[0:53:53] Voice 17: And so staff is now interpreting this more sort of like an application-driven process,

[0:53:58] Voice 17: which would make it look more like a grant, which essentially we were trying to not,

[0:54:03] Voice 17: it was meant to sort of be a service rather than a grant program.

[0:54:07] Voice 17: So we're sort of wrestling with how would we provide you with criteria

[0:54:11] Voice 17: without sort of making it a more application-driven process.

[0:54:14] Voice 17: So we could anticipate having something for the November meeting.

[0:54:17] Voice 17: the first meeting of the committee or bring it to them in the spring. We also are bringing a grant

[0:54:23] Voice 17: and aid changes to the executive committee for review and in that we're noting that there is

[0:54:30] Voice 17: the possibility because there's been a change to the act around grants in general that there might

[0:54:34] Voice 17: be an opportunity to take a holistic look at secretariat services grants and aid and grants

[0:54:38] Voice 17: in general and perhaps in the new term look at a fresh approach for all three of those topic areas

[0:54:44] Voice 17: is but certainly if you wish to leave this this is work we could do for you in time for the next

[0:54:49] Voice 17: consideration in April.

[0:54:52] Trustee Morrison: And Claire would you need to have an edit to this to include that broader

[0:54:56] Trustee Morrison: conversation what you just named that like the whole granting kind of component might be changing

[0:55:00] Trustee Morrison: so it could sort of shift this a little bit or that would just be included by default? I think

[0:55:05] Voice 17: I think we can proceed on this path until we're asked to take a different path so I think this

[0:55:10] Trustee Morrison: is fine okay any comments or questions about this one i'm trustee right yeah

[0:55:16] Voice 23: i've always i'm

[0:55:18] Voice 23: probably the only one that didn't quite understand all this but i my understanding to uh to create a

[0:55:24] Voice 23: secretariat function was to have somebody in the islands trust staff coordinate other

[0:55:33] Voice 23: agencies with trust business and i completely agree with clara that this has turned into a

[0:55:39] Voice 23: grant application system. I don't see why we are funding business interests. I don't understand why

[0:55:46] Voice 23: we're funding an MLA's office, which has a certain amount of funding available to him. I'm just not

[0:55:55] Voice 23: clear of the real purpose of this. If this is so other people can hold meetings, then I'm not even

[0:56:02] Voice 23: sure if the Allen's Trust has been invited to all these meetings. So I would certainly like to see

[0:56:07] Voice 23: some clarification um on it because i i think the secretary uh is an important function i just don't

[0:56:15] Voice 23: think we're utilizing it properly and i um i'd like some answers on that thing

[0:56:19] Voice 17: okay i'm so happy

[0:56:23] Voice 17: to speak to that so um i think when we originally had the concept of offering the support when our

[0:56:28] Voice 17: attention was to have sort of an administrative position here that could offer that but of course

[0:56:32] Voice 17: we and for within trustee services that would be our program coordinator position

[0:56:35] Voice 17: but really this term policy statement has dominated so much of the term I haven't had the

[0:56:40] Voice 17: staff time to offer and some of the groups we work with have had coordinators in place for a long

[0:56:45] Voice 17: time but simply haven't had the funding to ensure the stability there so with the model we've had

[0:56:50] Voice 17: is issuing contracts based on the preference of the groups that are you know each one has a you

[0:56:55] Voice 17: know their own unique situation is is funding we're contracting those coordinators to islands

[0:57:02] Voice 17: Trust to then offer the service. In some cases, like the Rural Island Economic Partnership,

[0:57:08] Voice 17: we are offering, we have been offering it within the staff. So it's sort of a unique scenario. I

[0:57:13] Voice 17: would suggest, based on the conversation we just had around service integration, I think one of

[0:57:18] Voice 17: the reasons that hasn't been such a theme this term is, in fact, Secretariat Services, because

[0:57:23] Voice 17: those conversations are happening on a routine basis now at a multi-party table on a regular

[0:57:28] Voice 17: basis that we're supporting coordination of, it has really turned down the dial on some of those

[0:57:34] Voice 17: complaints about lack of coordination and lack of conversation amongst different leaders in the

[0:57:38] Voice 17: region. So just from the staff perspective, I have really seen a shift in that. So I think we could,

[0:57:44] Voice 17: I can say I've seen some definite improvements. And I think it really speaks to the cooperation

[0:57:49] Voice 17: mandate that Islands Trust has to offer. But in terms of offering an administrative staff,

[0:57:55] Voice 17: we may be able to do more next term, just depending on what demands are placed on the team.

[0:58:00] Trustee Morrison: yeah so one of the things that this brings to mind for me is this actually feels like it sits

[0:58:06] Trustee Morrison: inside governance too it it feels like it sits into the larger conversation around governance

[0:58:12] Trustee Morrison: and how we're doing that coordination function of governance so i don't know if the i think the

[0:58:18] Trustee Morrison: ask for some criteria around it is actually what's getting that like steve i think that

[0:58:24] Trustee Morrison: addresses your point like if we have some criteria about like it has to be staff time

[0:58:27] Trustee Morrison: versus if it's a contract out or like those types of things but i think that might sit inside the

[0:58:32] Trustee Morrison: governance conversation because i think it's a little bit more about how we're doing that

[0:58:37] Trustee Morrison: coordination function um inside the and outside our interactions so i don't know if anybody else

[0:58:44] Trustee Morrison: agrees with that but it would be i think this may be one of those things to push over to governance

[0:58:49] Trustee Morrison: now that it exists um trustee right uh

[0:58:53] Voice 23: i i kind of agree with you but i'm a little leery about

[0:58:57] Voice 23: sending it out to the governance committee at the moment, because I can see them with a big plate

[0:59:01] Voice 23: chock full of a number of

[0:59:03] Voice 23: important issues to get off the ground. So, I mean, if this is working,

[0:59:09] Voice 23: that's fine. I just didn't understand it, and I'm okay with Clare's explanation.

[0:59:14] Voice 23: It would have been handy to know that this is also open to contractual obligations or

[0:59:20] Voice 23: contractual agreements. I was not aware of that, and it seemed a little spooky to me. So, thanks.

[0:59:27] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Critchley?

[0:59:30] Trustee Critchley: Yes, thank you. I was just going to respond to Trustee Wright, who I perceived as sort of questioning the validity or the benefits from this sort of program.

[0:59:43] Trustee Critchley: And I want to chime in and say how important it is from my perspective.

[0:59:47] Trustee Critchley: I similarly don't think that it's necessary or appropriate to send it to the Governance Committee.

[0:59:53] Trustee Critchley: I think this is a program that belongs here that we would be approving we this.

[1:00:00] Trustee Critchley: committee would be approving applications in the future and yeah it is an applications program in

[1:00:08] Trustee Critchley: a sense I mean people are going to apply for it so I don't have a problem recognizing it in that

[1:00:16] Trustee Critchley: way and naming it as such but it would be useful to have this guidance in sort of a bit of policy

[1:00:24] Trustee Critchley: see I don't think it needs to be very much it might be three or four or five bullet points but

[1:00:32] Trustee Critchley: yeah so I don't think it needs to be a lot and it doesn't need to be there's no urgency about it

[1:00:37] Trustee Critchley: because we've been doing this for several years now successfully I think so it's aspirational in

[1:00:45] Trustee Critchley: nature thank you so

[1:00:47] Trustee Morrison: I'm hearing at the moment no change is needed on this item and we leave it on

[1:00:51] Trustee Morrison: the fuel that's what I'm hearing okay so unless anyone has an alternative understanding of what

[1:00:58] Trustee Morrison: should be done with this item we'll just go ahead and move on to May 13th

[1:01:04] Voice 17: so thank you um so the one

[1:01:07] Voice 17: at the top here is the living in the trust area program I recommend this stay on um essentially

[1:01:13] Voice 17: it will just be a standing item as we currently under your project charter we have three mailings

[1:01:17] Voice 17: and we've just completed one and we would have another one in early spring and

[1:01:22] Trustee Morrison: if you can just

[1:01:22] Trustee Morrison: do an adjustment on this as well just say chair of tpc instead of chair morrison that would be good

[1:01:31] Trustee Morrison: all right any comments or questions on this one oh

[1:01:36] Voice 17: sorry i was speaking to the one that i am i

[1:01:39] Voice 17: wasn't speaking to that one is that one's completed sorry the 13th of may one um one

[1:01:42] Voice 17: is completed i was speaking to number two all right

[1:01:45] Trustee Morrison: number two okay and the others are completed

[1:01:50] Trustee Morrison: so when we have completed items are we leaving them on for a length of time or are we just like

[1:01:56] Trustee Morrison: shall be the completed items be removed for the next committee yes

[1:01:59] Voice 17: so that with that routinely

[1:02:00] Voice 17: we bring them to you to report that they're completed and then they drop off for the next

[1:02:04] Voice 17: iteration of the

[1:02:06] Trustee Morrison: meeting yeah okay

[1:02:10] Trustee Morrison: okay any questions on may 13th item number two

[1:02:18] Trustee Morrison: sorry claire did you want to add one more thing no that's fine okay so i am understanding that

[1:02:29] Trustee Morrison: it would stay on the fuel there's and is there anything now missing on the fuel that should

[1:02:34] Trustee Morrison: should have been there um ben so

[1:02:42] Trustee McConchie: if we're if this is the list of like hey this is stuff we want to

[1:02:45] Trustee McConchie: send to the next count you know committee it shouldn't like it say finish the policy statement

[1:02:50] Trustee McConchie: somewhere like get it done is there any way to indicate that i i don't it's a lot of government

[1:02:59] Trustee McConchie: speak in there and i i don't know just a just a point of clarity because new trustees come in and

[1:03:06] Trustee McConchie: it can be confusing on what the heck this is, and I just want language to be really clear and direct

[1:03:12] Trustee McConchie: that the next folks on this committee really finish the work that we started.

[1:03:18] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, I like that, actually, and so I know that it's on our top priorities document, but there

[1:03:26] Trustee Morrison: may actually literally be a specific task that we want to put on here that also puts it on the fuel,

[1:03:33] Trustee Morrison: Because, you know, we're making recommendations today to trust council about what to do about the trust policy statement. And so the item we might need to add to the fuel is, you know, follow up, you know, this, and we have to generally like do things to staff.

[1:03:54] Trustee Morrison: so maybe the thing we put on is for staff to um create a sort of follow-up um and maybe what it

[1:04:04] Trustee Morrison: is it's uh like uh where's the trust policy statement at briefing for the uh incoming

[1:04:11] Trustee Morrison: trustees i think that might do it if we can come up with whatever language that is would be helpful

[1:04:17] Trustee Morrison: and in the meantime while potentially claire and ben are thinking about that um trustee

[1:04:24] Trustee Morrison: do you want to add thoughts to that?

[1:04:28] Trustee Luckham: Rather than mess this up with my own interpretation

[1:04:32] Trustee Luckham: of follow-up action list I would like to ask the director to explain the purpose of the follow-up

[1:04:38] Trustee Luckham: action list because I think that needs to be clarified.

[1:04:43] Voice 17: Sure I'd be happy to do that. So

[1:04:46] Voice 17: essentially you have a projects list which is on page 44 of your agenda which outlines sort of

[1:04:51] Voice 17: your major projects and the follow-up action list is intended to sort of catch smaller resolutions

[1:04:57] Voice 17: that you have and direction to staff so they're not lost.

[1:05:00] Voice 17: So I would say, given that it's your major project

[1:05:03] Voice 17: and it's at the top of your projects list,

[1:05:05] Voice 17: from the staff perspective,

[1:05:06] Voice 17: we don't need it to be on the follow-up action list

[1:05:09] Voice 17: to provide direction to staff.

[1:05:11] Voice 17: Certainly you can add what you wish to that list,

[1:05:12] Voice 17: but the intent is that it's sort of a record of resolutions

[1:05:15] Voice 17: that need an action of some sort,

[1:05:17] Voice 17: because of course, within projects,

[1:05:19] Voice 17: there could be many, many actions

[1:05:21] Voice 17: that are embedded within a project.

[1:05:23] Voice 17: But if you wanted to capture something

[1:05:24] Voice 17: and communicate it to the next council,

[1:05:26] Voice 17: so you could do that but really that's not the intention of the list but if you wanted to pass

[1:05:32] Voice 17: what I would say if you have direction that you'd like to contemplate around next steps for the

[1:05:36] Voice 17: policy statement perhaps in the next conversation around the policy statement you could contemplate

[1:05:40] Voice 17: that and if you pass a resolution with that direction it would then be added to the fuel

[1:05:43] Voice 17: okay

[1:05:44] Trustee Morrison: that would be helpful so if we can just like tag that for anything at the end of our

[1:05:48] Trustee Morrison: discussion what we might need to be added to the fuel that would be good at the end of 7.1

[1:05:53] Trustee Morrison: i'll put a note on my thing about that um trustee right and trustee luckham i'm assuming you you had

[1:05:59] Trustee Morrison: your say if you want to lower your hand trustee right yeah

[1:06:03] Voice 23: i'm assuming that the attached text

[1:06:06] Voice 23: is the letter from you am i right or am i at the end of the agenda uh

[1:06:13] Trustee Morrison: yeah i have a letter that

[1:06:15] Trustee Morrison: i've drafted that i wanted to throw by folks for potential to go forward to the

[1:06:19] Trustee Morrison: next trust yeah

[1:06:20] Voice 23: that's the one we're talking about do you want a deeper discussion on that text now or wait until

[1:06:25] Voice 23: it

[1:06:25] Trustee Morrison: comes up let's wait until after we've had the conversation on the recommendation i think there's

[1:06:30] Trustee Morrison: a bunch of stuff in there yeah um uh case yeah

[1:06:34] Voice 21: i just wanted to agree with the director freighter

[1:06:36] Voice 21: said i mean the fuel is just a list of motions that have been passed by the committee they could

[1:06:41] Voice 21: be linked to a project or not so i think it's i don't think we need to add something about

[1:06:47] Voice 21: the trust policy statement because that's something given to the trust to the trust

[1:06:51] Voice 21: committee trust programs committee by trust council and ec so okay

[1:06:56] Trustee Morrison: all right so i think

[1:06:59] Trustee Morrison: that finishes review of the fuel and i'm going to ask us to take a five minute break um oh so

[1:07:05] Trustee Morrison: before we do that is there anything else that's not on the fuel that we think we should add right

[1:07:10] Trustee Morrison: now we may add things in our conversation around the trust policy statement but is there anything

[1:07:14] Trustee Morrison: anything that just seems like it got missed. Okay. So I'm going to take that as a no.

[1:07:23] Trustee Morrison: And I would like to take a five-minute break before we move into the next item,

[1:07:28] Trustee Morrison: just to get up and move around and get more coffee. So if we can be back at 9.15, sorry, 10.15.

[1:07:39] Trustee Morrison: Thank

[1:07:39] Voice 3: you. All

[1:12:44] Trustee Morrison: right. So I know that was a very short five minutes, but I think folks will start

[1:12:48] Trustee Morrison: to pop on here. I'm going to need to see your pretty faces just to know that I have quorum

[1:12:52] Trustee Morrison: or maybe a hand up for those of you who are on audio or don't have camera functionality would

[1:13:01] Trustee Morrison: be good just to know that i have quorum okay we're good

[1:13:19] Trustee Morrison: so we'll go ahead and start up the

[1:13:23] Trustee Morrison: conversation all right um before we have the staff introduce the next item so we are on 7.1

[1:13:35] Trustee Morrison: um a couple things we're going to want to talk about the correspondence um at this point too

[1:13:42] Trustee Morrison: from the um municipal affairs so uh we want to bring that into the conversation and i'm so we'll

[1:13:50] Trustee Morrison: have the staff uh introduce things and then maybe we'll have also a conversation about that municipal

[1:13:55] Trustee Morrison: affairs piece and then we should sort of get into the details um so jelani if you want to offer some

[1:14:01] Trustee Morrison: and guidance about which order that might want to be in so that we don't trip over ourselves that

[1:14:06] Trustee Morrison: would be helpful and I also want to set a couple just parameters around what we can and can't

[1:14:11] Trustee Morrison: discuss in the open meeting so Delaney do you have a preference or thoughts about the letter or Claire

[1:14:18] Trustee Morrison: about doing the letter conversation first or the briefing I

[1:14:25] Voice 16: think you could do the letter first as

[1:14:27] Voice 16: correspondence and then just move on to the rfd

[1:14:30] Trustee Morrison: yeah the rfd outlines like nice orderly things

[1:14:33] Trustee Morrison: i think we're going to start diving into conversation once we get into the rfd um

[1:14:38] Trustee Morrison: so the there was a letter okay so first of all just before we get into any conversation on this

[1:14:44] Trustee Morrison: um i do need to remind trustees that if we're going to discuss anything related to legal opinions

[1:14:49] Trustee Morrison: we actually need to be going in camera so um just be really aware of that that if you want to

[1:14:56] Trustee Morrison: to instigate a conversation around legal opinions we should cluster those all into one sort of chunk

[1:15:01] Trustee Morrison: of discussion and we're going to need to move that into a in-camera space we have a motion

[1:15:06] Trustee Morrison: available for us if we need to do that so don't necessarily it's fine if we need to do that

[1:15:11] Trustee Morrison: but um we just don't want to wander in our public meeting into legal discussions that are supposed

[1:15:16] Trustee Morrison: to be held in camera okay um so just be aware of that um and so in terms of the letter the

[1:15:25] Trustee Morrison: the correspondence from the municipal affairs, Delaney, can you just give the context of why

[1:15:30] Trustee Morrison: we have that correspondence? For sure.

[1:15:32] Voice 16: So this is going back some months to February

[1:15:35] Voice 16: when you as a committee were discussing possible next steps for the project and you passed a

[1:15:41] Voice 16: resolution requesting staff to seek provincial staff feedback on required or desired content

[1:15:49] Voice 16: or structure for the policy statement. You had been having a conversation at the time about,

[1:15:54] Voice 16: you know if we are looking at restructuring the document are we allowed to do that are there

[1:15:58] Voice 16: certain kinds of policies that we have to have in there was no clarity from the islands trust

[1:16:03] Voice 16: act itself so we sought feedback from staff at the ministry of municipal affairs they sent us

[1:16:12] Voice 16: an initial correspondence and there was one particular part of that response that we were

[1:16:19] Voice 16: a bit confused about so we sought further clarification just so that we were passing

[1:16:24] Voice 16: on the correct information to the committee. So you'll see in the attachment basically a

[1:16:31] Voice 16: thread of correspondence with the latest correspondence at the beginning

[1:16:35] Voice 16: and the original response at the end. And I don't know if you want me to summarize

[1:16:45] Voice 16: or summarize the correspondence or if you want to just have a discussion at this point.

[1:16:50] Trustee Morrison: Maybe if you can give the sort of elevator speech.

[1:16:53] Trustee Morrison: Sure.

[1:16:53] Voice 16: So essentially, the Islands Trust Act is silent on, you know, specific types of policies that we don't have any particular requirements in terms of the structure or content.

[1:17:08] Voice 16: The Islands Trust Act basically just stipulates that it be a general statement of policies to carry out the object of the trust as specified in Section 3 of the Islands Trust Act.

[1:17:21] Voice 16: And so Municipal Affairs has confirmed that.

[1:17:27] Voice 16: And they also offered some feedback kind of more broadly on the current trajectory of our policy statement review.

[1:17:35] Voice 16: review. So some of their, their own observations, which are helpful in terms of, you know, kind of

[1:17:44] Voice 16: foreseeing what they'll be looking for when we pass the bylaw to the Minister for Adoption.

[1:17:50] Voice 16: I think I'll leave it at that and just happy to answer any questions.

[1:17:56] Trustee Morrison: All right. Does anyone have any questions related to that correspondence?

[1:18:02] Trustee Morrison: Ben? Ben?

[1:18:04] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, just because we've got Trustee Critchley and Trustee Rogers,

[1:18:08] Trustee McConchie: Rogers, I was just curious to know, because I didn't, as a trustee, have a strong understanding

[1:18:11] Trustee McConchie: of this case law that keeps getting referred, that it will affect future discussions in the

[1:18:17] Trustee McConchie: policy statement. It's this Vavilov decision by the Supreme Court of Canada, which basically,

[1:18:24] Trustee McConchie: if my understanding is correct, it discusses the reasonableness or correctness of municipalities

[1:18:31] Trustee McConchie: in dealing with bylaws and how they implement them. So I'm curious to know what my fellow

[1:18:37] Trustee McConchie: like, especially Trustee Rogers, Trustee Crishley, who have legal background. If this is something

[1:18:42] Trustee McConchie: for future trustees to consider in the Trust Programs Committee, how the Vavilov case impacts

[1:18:47] Trustee McConchie: the development of the policy statement? That could be a

[1:18:53] Voice 6: professor question. But I'm curious

[1:18:57] Voice 6: to know, does that make sense?

[1:19:01] Trustee Morrison: I don't

[1:19:02] Voice 6: want to touch that.

[1:19:03] Trustee Morrison: Yeah. So again, just in terms of

[1:19:07] Trustee Morrison: legal opinions and i think this this question's fine but like in terms of legal opinions that

[1:19:12] Trustee Morrison: we don't want to discuss specific legal opinions that we've had inside closed meetings so if we

[1:19:17] Trustee Morrison: can answer this generally

[1:19:18] Trustee McConchie: bill bullhouser sorry like terry morrison there's a publicly as you

[1:19:23] Trustee McConchie: see in in the lining's comment it's a publicly reviewed comments from bill bullhouser bullhouser

[1:19:30] Trustee McConchie: sorry if i'm pronouncing that wrong uh and so it's actually really critical the vavilov case

[1:19:34] Trustee McConchie: has major impacts on how the policy statement should be uh discussed and that wasn't clear to

[1:19:39] Trustee McConchie: me and you can see the this guy ron uh who wrote back from the from the ministry he's like hey yeah

[1:19:44] Trustee McConchie: check out what your legal opinion says and the legal opinion says by the way the vavilov case

[1:19:50] Trustee McConchie: will have major impacts on future bylaws yeah if you're following my train of thought um i'm just

[1:19:54] Trustee McConchie: wondering like the future policy statement needs to be needs to take this into account then therefore

[1:20:00] Trustee McConchie: therefore, can I hear my fellow trustees opinions on how it could be taken into account and then

[1:20:04] Trustee McConchie: from staff? That makes sense.

[1:20:06] Trustee Morrison: And I totally heard you and understood what you said the first time.

[1:20:09] Trustee Morrison: I just want to like in responses when people are responding, just make sure we're sticking to this

[1:20:14] Trustee Morrison: open comment and not veering into any other legal opinions that are closed. So yeah. Case?

[1:20:23] Voice 21: I wasn't going to comment on that, but I can add one statement. The only thing I understand is that

[1:20:28] Voice 21: It's sort of a deference to administrative body decisions where there's, I think, no recourse to accuracy of the decision.

[1:20:39] Voice 21: It's just the reasonableness of the administrative body decision.

[1:20:45] Voice 21: Anyway, that's an aside.

[1:20:46] Voice 21: One of the questions I had was around the word general policies and how you interpret that.

[1:20:51] Voice 21: a general can be broad ranging which may be high level or or or detailed or it could also mean just

[1:21:01] Voice 21: a high level policy i think that's probably open to interpretation the one comment i have about

[1:21:08] Voice 21: the letter is it's it's tends to glow from the ministry it tends to gloss over the role of the

[1:21:15] Voice 21: islands trust it tends to blend it into the local government perspective and i don't

[1:21:21] Voice 21: They only make reference to the trust object in one sentence, but really, it's missing that piece, I think, and the comprehension as to what our purpose is.

[1:21:32] Voice 21: Just my observation.

[1:21:35] Trustee Morrison: Dan, did you want to?

[1:21:40] Voice 15: I'm going to try very, very briefly to address Trustee McConkie's question, because that was effectively my life for 35 years.

[1:21:52] Voice 15: um and um it has to do with what courts look at administrative bodies including municipal bodies

[1:22:00] Voice 15: and all sorts it's what the trustee um langris is right what level of deference they give to

[1:22:06] Voice 15: the decision making of a of a um of a particular administrative body uh and there has been a wide

[1:22:14] Voice 15: ranging discussion for years around whether it's a correctness standard a reasonable patently

[1:22:20] Voice 15: reasonable standard or a reasonableness standard. And now in Faviloff, the courts have basically

[1:22:25] Voice 15: said the standard is reasonableness in all cases. And so they look at how the decision's made and

[1:22:32] Voice 15: what the nature of the decision is. And basically they have given a higher level of deference to

[1:22:38] Voice 15: the administrative bodies. We will get more deference than we might have at some point in

[1:22:43] Voice 15: the past. However, there will be some exceptions and lawyers will find their way through some of

[1:22:49] Voice 15: of those exceptions but um it's it's but that's basically what the vavilov decision says and as

[1:22:55] Voice 15: as as simply as i can put it i think the reality is as long as we our processes are good our

[1:23:02] Voice 15: consideration our public processes are good and our um i'm well thought out and our decisions

[1:23:08] Voice 15: are within the realm of what is considered to be reasonable decisions around all of these things

[1:23:13] Voice 15: we will be granted a great deal of deference and we our decisions will be upheld

[1:23:17] Voice 15: there you go three minutes on administrative law as i understand it and

[1:23:23] Trustee Morrison: i think the challenge that

[1:23:24] Trustee Morrison: i see in some of that is that our processes for um public engagement and review are with

[1:23:35] Trustee Morrison: the constituents largely of the islands trust area but our mandate is also for the province

[1:23:42] Trustee Morrison: of British Columbia. And so that is, I think it's a real challenge for us that other governments

[1:23:48] Trustee Morrison: don't face necessarily, that when we make decisions, we sometimes are making decisions

[1:23:55] Trustee Morrison: as this special government that we are, not just for the current human residents of the trust,

[1:24:01] Trustee Morrison: but also for the non-human residents, for the future residents, for the province of British

[1:24:06] Trustee Morrison: Columbia so we have to really be clear in our decisions that we're doing that like not just

[1:24:12] Trustee Morrison: because when we look at just the feedback from the islands 2050 for instance in the trust policy

[1:24:17] Trustee Morrison: statement we can't just go into counting like who said what we actually have to put that information

[1:24:23] Trustee Morrison: in the context of all the other obligations we have in our decision making so I think that would

[1:24:29] Trustee Morrison: be the one thing that I absolutely

[1:24:30] Voice 15: correct and I think I don't think any court has considered that

[1:24:35] Voice 15: that concept i don't think we need to do we don't need to do an extensive outreach to the whole

[1:24:39] Voice 15: province uh for on everything that we do by any means but we need to take into account all those

[1:24:45] Voice 15: as i've often expressed it in my view is in addition to having our our constituents as our

[1:24:52] Voice 15: as our our body we also have a second constituent which is the which is the island's trust in the

[1:24:58] Voice 15: earth and a third one which is the province and we have to consider them all um so anyway yeah i

[1:25:03] Voice 15: agree with you

[1:25:04] Trustee Morrison: yeah any other comments related to the letter ben yeah yeah

[1:25:14] Voice 6: just just one more this

[1:25:15] Voice 6: is

[1:25:15] Trustee McConchie: so i'm understanding so the conversation so um if we're going to if i'm going to make

[1:25:20] Trustee McConchie: suggestions about the policy statement let's say i suggest something uh let's say let's take docs

[1:25:27] Trustee McConchie: or whatever the issue is um a person could then therefore if we put it in the policy statement

[1:25:32] Trustee McConchie: then argue we were not being reasonable or like say they wanted to challenge the policy statement

[1:25:37] Trustee McConchie: minute later on in court they then argue like actually it's unreasonable if we put a ban on docs

[1:25:43] Trustee McConchie: whereas we argue it's reasonable because of climate change or something you get what i'm

[1:25:49] Trustee McConchie: getting at here like what everything we have to do now has to take into account this since this

[1:25:54] Trustee McConchie: 2019 case which trustee rogers surmised beautifully uh that what we're doing is reasonable or not

[1:26:02] Trustee McConchie: and i'm not like i guess what i'm saying is i'm not super clear on what that means but i guess

[1:26:07] Trustee McConchie: many municipalities aren't as well and they don't know yet because they don't know well

[1:26:11] Voice 15: and

[1:26:11] Trustee McConchie: actually judges and lawyers aren't either so it's really interesting okay cool

[1:26:16] Trustee McConchie: yeah i

[1:26:17] Trustee Morrison: think for ourselves if we're making these decisions and we cannot find a reasoned way to

[1:26:24] Trustee Morrison: express why we're making these decisions then we shouldn't be making them like frankly like so

[1:26:30] Trustee Morrison: So we should be able to clearly articulate why we're including particular things in the

[1:26:37] Trustee Morrison: trust statement and in the trust policy statement.

[1:26:40] Trustee Morrison: And that will help for staff to document that and make sure that we're clear why we're

[1:26:46] Trustee Morrison: making particular decisions, particularly the ones we know are going to be confrontational.

[1:26:50] Trustee Morrison: So, you know, salinization, docs, whatever, those types of things.

[1:26:54] Trustee Morrison: We need to make sure that we are clear on why we're doing it.

[1:26:57] Trustee Morrison: And if we can't do that right now, then maybe it goes on the sort of, you know, future consideration list and it doesn't go in the current round because we just don't want the legal battle right now until we're clear as trustees.

[1:27:09] Trustee Morrison: Because this process is just as much about trustee and staff learning as it is about changing the trust policy statement to update it.

[1:27:17] Trustee Morrison: Like there's a lot of moving pieces and moving components to this whole landscape right now.

[1:27:22] Trustee Morrison: Yeah.

[1:27:23] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Wright.

[1:27:25] Voice 23: uh well this is a this is a good letter i'm happy with it and and what it's saying my only question

[1:27:33] Voice 23: is that is what ben is suggesting and and um where does the precautionary principle come in because

[1:27:39] Voice 23: we've we're trying to uphold a precautionary principle when we make decisions and um is that

[1:27:45] Voice 23: considered uh reasonable in our opinions yeah

[1:27:49] Trustee Morrison: i think that's going to be a question to like for

[1:27:51] Trustee Morrison: a challenge at some point frankly like i think if we if we do decide that we want things in because

[1:27:57] Trustee Morrison: we are looking for this you know our other constituents the province and the future uh or

[1:28:03] Trustee Morrison: the non-human residents of the trust then at that point we put it in and we understand that we could

[1:28:08] Trustee Morrison: be challenged and we have to argue that so um but i don't necessarily think we want to back away from

[1:28:15] Trustee Morrison: some of those things either right so we just have to be able to figure out how to argue that and be

[1:28:19] Trustee Morrison: be reasonable about it trustee brent these

[1:28:23] Voice 5: are definitely challenges because they're gray areas

[1:28:26] Voice 5: and so this is one area where i'm not going to recommend it go to the governance committee but

[1:28:30] Voice 5: it is one of the reasons why i think we have to look at our governance and perhaps you know we

[1:28:35] Voice 5: may have to look at another model where uh in in some aspects the province appoints people to look

[1:28:44] Voice 5: look at representing British Columbians or those things that can't represent themselves like the

[1:28:50] Voice 5: environment because we're really we're in a tough spot here because we're elected right and so

[1:28:55] Voice 5: there's an expectation that we're going to listen to our electorate and I'm not sure that when we

[1:29:01] Voice 5: go out to the electorate we say in our campaigns hey we are going to be looking after everything

[1:29:08] Voice 5: else in the interest of the environment and all British Columbians and you know this is the

[1:29:13] Voice 5: background I have to do so I think you know generally speaking I'll speak for myself I don't

[1:29:19] Voice 5: have the horsepower to do that and I've seen some other trustees I don't think that do either

[1:29:23] Voice 5: honestly so this might be a good governance thing thanks thank

[1:29:29] Trustee Morrison: you yeah that is the dilemma we all

[1:29:30] Trustee Morrison: face because like yeah I agree um all right anything else on the letter and also in this

[1:29:39] Trustee Morrison: or in the communication from the municipal affairs and also in the anything else category

[1:29:46] Trustee Morrison: I'm wondering about what is the process for this type of communication to go forward into the

[1:29:53] Trustee Morrison: package of materials that goes to trust council because I actually feel like this

[1:29:56] Trustee Morrison: communication and this understanding is part of what

[1:30:00] Trustee Morrison: we need to report into trust council about the stance so i don't know how to do that or what the

[1:30:06] Trustee Morrison: what would is that this communication itself or is it the briefing i don't know if claire

[1:30:12] Trustee Morrison: delaney want to weigh in on that at all i'll

[1:30:16] Voice 17: let delaney lead this conversation unless she wants

[1:30:18] Voice 17: to defer to me

[1:30:19] Voice 16: um i think at this point probably just forwarding the correspondence um to um the

[1:30:26] Voice 16: to executive committee to include in the trust council package is probably the best

[1:30:30] Voice 16: way forward if you agree yeah

[1:30:34] Trustee Morrison: um sorry paul is that hand still up or do you want to make a motion

[1:30:38] Trustee Morrison: to that effect or

[1:30:39] Voice 5: i'm trying desperately to get it down i'm sorry okay

[1:30:42] Trustee Morrison: no worries no worries um

[1:30:44] Trustee Morrison: yes so i would like this to to go forward um into the trust council because i feel like these are

[1:30:51] Trustee Morrison: the kind of crux decisions that people need at trust council to be able to understand the terrain

[1:30:56] Trustee Morrison: we're landing on so if there's anyone who would like to go ahead and make a motion to forward

[1:31:01] Trustee Morrison: this to executive for inclusion in the trust council package and if we can get um such a

[1:31:09] Trustee Morrison: motion up on the screen if it comes um sorry tim did you want to do that oh no uh trustee rogers

[1:31:15] Voice 15: i'll move that the um trust programs committee for the correspondence from the provincial

[1:31:23] Voice 15: government dated whatever the date is i've got in front of me i'm sorry i just don't see it

[1:31:27] Voice 16: august 25th

[1:31:28] Voice 15: thanks august 25th uh to the executive committee for conclusion and the september trust

[1:31:34] Voice 15: council package thank

[1:31:37] Trustee Morrison: you and if i can specify from the municipal affairs ministry of municipal

[1:31:41] Trustee Morrison: affairs of the province of british columbia that's fine thanks no that's good yeah and then in the

[1:32:00] Trustee Morrison: province of british columbia i know that's a little long-winded but that's perfect thank you

[1:32:17] Voice 3: thank you all

[1:32:20] Trustee Morrison: right um can i have a second on this motion not sure where i got the second here

[1:32:36] Trustee Morrison: but i'm going to take it from case is that a second from case yeah okay any comments on this

[1:32:41] Trustee Morrison: motion specifically case i

[1:32:45] Voice 21: wanted to clarify that we're sending the correspondence so that include

[1:32:49] Voice 21: the all the correspondence from our staff as well and the the briefing document attached or we just

[1:32:58] Voice 21: sending the the one response just want to clarify that yeah

[1:33:01] Trustee Morrison: thank you for the clarification my

[1:33:03] Trustee Morrison: understanding of the intent would be that the trust programs forward the

[1:33:07] Trustee Morrison: correspondence and the associated briefing to the

[1:33:11] Trustee Morrison: executive committee for inclusion so yeah

[1:33:16] Trustee Morrison: um yeah sorry i think um yeah i think and the associated briefing should go after the

[1:33:25] Trustee Morrison: municipal affairs yeah i think that's where it fits is that okay dan okay all right thanks

[1:33:39] Trustee Morrison: case for catching that um anything else all right i'm going to go ahead and ask for

[1:33:47] Trustee Morrison: the vote on this all who in favor are in favor okay and i can get hands down

[1:34:08] Trustee Morrison: that's unanimous thank you all right so if we can move chair

[1:34:17] Voice 20: if I might would you please

[1:34:20] Voice 20: for the sake of the record just declare that whether it was carried or defeated please

[1:34:27] Voice 20: um

[1:34:28] Trustee Morrison: okay so I it is unanimously carried thank you

[1:34:31] Trustee Morrison: yeah and um okay so let's go over to

[1:34:38] Trustee Morrison: to the briefing itself on the 7.1.

[1:34:43] Trustee Morrison: Dabrani, if you can take us there.

[1:34:46] Trustee Morrison: Sure.

[1:34:48] Trustee Morrison: And just page number, we are on 21, I think it is.

[1:34:54] Voice 16: Yeah, so page 21 is basically a cover RFD for this committee,

[1:35:02] Voice 16: basically recommending that you forward the attached request for decision,

[1:35:06] Voice 16: which is addressed from the committee to Trust Council,

[1:35:11] Voice 16: that you forward that to Executive Committee for Inclusion

[1:35:13] Voice 16: in the September 2022 Trust Council Agenda Package.

[1:35:18] Voice 16: So I'll just move ahead to that specific RFD

[1:35:22] Voice 16: that is being reviewed today.

[1:35:25] Voice 16: So as you will recall in June,

[1:35:28] Voice 16: Trust Council passed a resolution

[1:35:31] Voice 16: basically requesting Trust Programs Committee

[1:35:33] Voice 16: committee to develop recommendations for next steps for the project and just programs committee

[1:35:38] Voice 16: had a wonderful meeting in person on July 8, where you were able to discuss and develop

[1:35:44] Voice 16: some of those recommendations and we have tried to summarize those as well as sort of

[1:35:54] Voice 16: listing some of the resolutions that were passed by a trust council in June already.

[1:35:59] Voice 16: and we've highlighted them under kind of sort of categories so part one is around structural

[1:36:08] Voice 16: revisions to the document part two is around revisions to existing content so the the existing

[1:36:15] Voice 16: draft policies and part three is on development of additional content mostly related to feedback

[1:36:23] Voice 16: back from First Nations and then there is a section on coordination with referral agency

[1:36:31] Voice 16: partners basically just requesting staff to follow up with some of the ministries and

[1:36:36] Voice 16: organizations that have requested specific amendments and then we've also highlighted

[1:36:42] Voice 16: some next steps in terms of engagement reviews and basically setting up the next council

[1:36:51] Voice 16: to carry on the project.

[1:36:53] Voice 16: So I won't go through all of them here.

[1:36:56] Voice 16: Perhaps I'll just invite questions

[1:36:58] Voice 16: or specific amendments that this committee,

[1:37:01] Voice 16: because of course, this is your RFD to trust council.

[1:37:05] Voice 16: And so we'd be just grateful for any feedback

[1:37:09] Voice 16: on where this may need some revision

[1:37:14] Voice 16: to put it in your own voice.

[1:37:17] Voice 16: So happy to answer any questions

[1:37:19] Voice 16: or take amendments at this time and

[1:37:22] Trustee Morrison: i'd like to do the amendments in sections if i can so

[1:37:26] Trustee Morrison: that we don't have cross conversation on different topics um so maybe from a first perspective um

[1:37:34] Trustee Morrison: the the section so i'm on page 23 um part one structural revisions so the question on the table

[1:37:44] Trustee Morrison: is does this reflect the sort of collective thinking of what we have had over the last

[1:37:50] Trustee Morrison: few months and particularly the last meeting is there any comments or questions that people have

[1:37:55] Trustee Morrison: related to these adjustments uh

[1:38:00] Voice 21: case this is a section 1.3 where it talks about the recommended

[1:38:05] Voice 21: policies can we give some examples of what we intend by that i presume there was i can't recall

[1:38:11] Voice 21: all our conversations in the meeting but it might be

[1:38:14] Voice 21: helpful sure

[1:38:15] Voice 16: thanks case in in the discussion

[1:38:17] Voice 16: on july 8th um we had you had used the words more like suggestions or suggested policies and

[1:38:25] Voice 16: i provided a bit of um in the actual rfd background section a little bit of background here um

[1:38:35] Voice 16: Basically, this is areas where, well, the committee mentioned, members of the committee mentioned that there were some areas where Trust Council can't actually require that certain policies be included in local OCPs or bylaws, but would like to guide local trust committees and other municipalities to conduct their daily decision making in certain ways that are aligned with the trust object.

[1:38:57] Voice 16: And so this is particularly relevant. We had had a bit of a discussion at the last meeting about, for example, this desire to honor DRIPA, the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act, and its requirements for seeking consent from First Nations and engagement.

[1:39:18] Voice 16: And some of those principles, which aren't yet embedded in our governance structures or legislative structures, we actually can't require that a local trust committee seek consent, it would fetter their local decision making authority.

[1:39:34] Voice 16: authority and so but we can encourage that because obviously trust council has made that

[1:39:40] Voice 16: recommend that commitment to reconciliation um and and so it's so it's sort of a it's it's a bit

[1:39:47] Voice 16: akin to the commitments of trust council right now which are non-regulatory um but provide that

[1:39:55] Voice 16: sort of overarching guidance um to to conduct activities aligned with the trust object does

[1:40:01] Voice 16: Does that answer your question?

[1:40:03] Voice 21: Sort of, yeah.

[1:40:04] Voice 21: So it doesn't include where there is actually a power to do something by bylaw, making it a recommendation then.

[1:40:12] Voice 21: If we still choose

[1:40:13] Voice 16: to address the issue.

[1:40:15] Voice 16: Yeah, so it would be a recommendation, yeah.

[1:40:18] Trustee Morrison: But it would help reflect, Case, the overarching, like it would synthesize and put in one place the various, like, you know, climate change motions, reconciliation motions, those principles that are in them.

[1:40:32] Trustee Morrison: It would move them into like a policy statement of what we'd like to see in LTCs, but may not have the authority inside the Trust Act to say that it needs to be.

[1:40:43] Trustee Morrison: And then the directive policies would literally just be those things that we can actually enforce into local trust committees through the letter that we just had from the Municipal Affairs, essentially.

[1:40:56] Trustee Morrison: Those are the things that we have more legal standing, that we can actually have, what was the term, Ben?

[1:41:01] Trustee Morrison: it was the um oh reasonableness so

[1:41:07] Voice 1: that would be

[1:41:08] Trustee Morrison: the reasonableness standard because we actually

[1:41:09] Trustee Morrison: have legal standing to be able to ask for those things um okay trustee right yeah

[1:41:18] Voice 23: this one is a

[1:41:19] Voice 23: little confusing to me because we were concerned about fettering a lntc's decision and yet

[1:41:25] Voice 23: trustees are a member of trust council and generally whether they approve the policy or not

[1:41:31] Voice 23: it is a decision by council to approve this policy so why is it that we are fettering their

[1:41:38] Voice 23: discretion when they have already made a decision and made their case at council and either either

[1:41:42] Voice 23: agreed with it or they didn't agree with it but they have to go along with it because that's

[1:41:46] Voice 23: council's decision they i i i understand there's two types of corporation and and hopefully dan can

[1:41:53] Voice 23: can feather me out on this but my my sense is we are the islands trust is a federation

[1:41:58] Voice 23: and within that federation are local trust committees.

[1:42:02] Voice 23: And I'm not sure why the decision of council

[1:42:06] Voice 23: suddenly becomes untenable for local trustees.

[1:42:10] Voice 23: Particularly, as I said earlier,

[1:42:12] Voice 23: we are trying to operate something

[1:42:14] Voice 23: called the precautionary principle.

[1:42:16] Voice 23: And I'd like to, as an example,

[1:42:19] Voice 23: I know the trust council has removed

[1:42:20] Voice 23: the desalination plants consideration from this.

[1:42:24] Voice 23: And we're also discussing about docks.

[1:42:33] Voice 23: policy statement, then there must have been some reason for doing so. And I'm assuming that that

[1:42:39] Voice 23: reason was for environmental precautionaries.

[1:42:45] Trustee Morrison: Sorry, Steve, we lost

[1:42:46] Trustee Morrison: you a little bit in the

[1:42:48] Trustee Morrison: middle. So we lost a little of your intent.

[1:42:50] Voice 23: Okay. I'm having a TELUS Wi-Fi moment here.

[1:42:56] Voice 23: if if if we're going to have um docks and desalination in the policy statement even

[1:43:02] Voice 23: though we've decided because of the political pressure to remove it if there is evidence that

[1:43:08] Voice 23: they are creating an environmental issue then i don't see why we would remove it if we're going

[1:43:14] Voice 23: to honor a precautionary principle and we also as what the wasanish people have talked about

[1:43:20] Voice 23: is that there is a cumulative effect in operation here.

[1:43:25] Voice 23: So my sense is if we are going to preserve and protect,

[1:43:28] Voice 23: we have to employ the precautionary principle

[1:43:31] Voice 23: and we have to justify the policies that we're putting in.

[1:43:35] Voice 23: And if there is going to be an escape clause,

[1:43:38] Voice 23: then that escape clause should be establishing

[1:43:43] Voice 23: or at least allowing an applicant to apply

[1:43:47] Voice 23: apply and show that they can mitigate those potential environmental problems so i'm i'm a

[1:43:53] Voice 23: little confused because i i go back and forth between trust council saying this is what we

[1:43:58] Voice 23: think we need to do and then trust uh trustees come along in their local trust committees and

[1:44:03] Voice 23: say yeah i think i'll ignore it and that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever thanks

[1:44:07] Voice 23: no it's

[1:44:08] Trustee Morrison: okay i'm gonna actually try to respond first because i think there's a short response

[1:44:13] Trustee Morrison: And then, like, if others want to respond to this, too, I think it's important to do this. So what we consider to be put in the directive versus the recommended policies has to do not with, well, it has to do with what we legally have roots for.

[1:44:32] Trustee Morrison: So from my perspective, Steve, we potentially have some legal grounding to put docs in directive policies if we so choose to do that, okay?

[1:44:42] Trustee Morrison: Because they're about the mandate of preserve and protect the Islands Trust.

[1:44:46] Trustee Morrison: When it comes to things, unfortunately, when it comes to things like enforcing DRIPA obligations, we don't yet actually have that in our legal mandate because of the way the province has structured things.

[1:44:59] Trustee Morrison: so i would love to have that inside the direct directive policies from our perspective for

[1:45:05] Trustee Morrison: reconciliation however legally we could be challenged on that right now so it should be

[1:45:10] Trustee Morrison: in the recommended policies so it's it's a little bit it's not about the intent of what we want to

[1:45:16] Trustee Morrison: do as trust it's literally about the legal sort of division space i think of where we can and where

[1:45:21] Trustee Morrison: we can't and so we'll need to get some legal opinion on that at some point um once those are

[1:45:26] Trustee Morrison: are all fully drafted we have a full like rigorous draft in front of us and maybe we can keep more of

[1:45:31] Trustee Morrison: those in the directive policies if we can so that would be my um interpretation delaney do you want

[1:45:37] Trustee Morrison: to add to that yeah

[1:45:38] Voice 16: i wanted to clarify one thing and maybe david david marler is here he can also

[1:45:44] Voice 16: weigh in and to crack me if needed um so at the moment so basically the function of the policy

[1:45:51] Voice 16: statement is comes out of the islands trust act and there's a section which basically says that

[1:45:57] Voice 16: ocps and regulatory bylaws cannot be approved by executive committee if they're contrary to

[1:46:04] Voice 16: or at variance with the policy statement that's the only sort of check and balance that we have

[1:46:10] Voice 16: in our governance structure at the moment to ensure that the policy statement is implemented

[1:46:15] Voice 16: So directive policies can include any policy that we're basically asking the local trust committee or any municipality to include in their OCPs and bylaws.

[1:46:26] Voice 16: But there's a whole other gamut of daily decision making that happens on specific applications that doesn't come to executive committee for that check and balance.

[1:46:38] Voice 16: And that's where we were seeing envisioning this role of recommended policies as policy guidance. But it's, rightly or wrongly, we have no way of enforcing that. So it's just acknowledging that policy guidance is helpful to, you know, that's the purpose of the policy statement.

[1:46:58] Voice 16: But only OCPs and regulatory bylaws will be checked by executive committee and only when they're being amended. So it's not like retroactive either. It's only as the new development or amendments. That's the constraint we have legislatively.

[1:47:17] Trustee Morrison: And I think the one addition I would make is it does actually seem like, given the correspondence we just received, that we can proactively say that if you didn't include something in that amendment that is in our directive policies, we actually can ask you to include it.

[1:47:35] Trustee Morrison: Sorry, can you say that again?

[1:47:36] Trustee Morrison: So if somebody is going through an OCP review or bylaw review and they didn't include something that we actually have in our directive policies, that we can actually ask them to include it?

[1:47:49] Voice 16: Yes, because it is not contrary to our variance with the policy statement at that juncture.

[1:47:57] Voice 16: The other thing I just want to highlight is that a local trust committee can be more proactive than the policy statement directs.

[1:48:04] Voice 16: so you can still decide at the local trust committee to do you know the engagement to

[1:48:10] Voice 16: conduct your daily decision making in ways that you feel are aligned with the islands trust object

[1:48:15] Voice 16: but we just can't mandate it like require it through any other means than ocps and regulatory

[1:48:22] Voice 16: bylaws that are new or amending in the process of amendment does that make sense trustee right

[1:48:33] Voice 16: yeah

[1:48:33] Voice 23: it seems to neuter uh council it seems to i i'm not sure the the purpose of having a policy

[1:48:42] Voice 23: statement if uh there's there's no ability um to to have it enforced if uh local trust committee

[1:48:49] Voice 23: decides against it

[1:48:50] Trustee Morrison: yeah and i really need to like make sure that we understand what that means

[1:48:55] Trustee Morrison: like the whole arc of the ocps and the bylaws right because the ocps and the bylaws mean that

[1:49:00] Trustee Morrison: if your DPAs are in contravention of something that's in the trust policy statement as they're

[1:49:06] Trustee Morrison: getting recommended then your DPAs actually will be altered to be in compliance with the policy

[1:49:11] Trustee Morrison: statement and those DPAs are what guide your recommendation on different applications right

[1:49:19] Trustee Morrison: or the so so your bylaws are actually very critical to how you're making the daily decisions

[1:49:25] Trustee Morrison: of your approval of different applications

[1:49:27] Trustee Morrison: and how staff are even processing

[1:49:29] Trustee Morrison: some of that work behind the scenes.

[1:49:31] Trustee Morrison: So it is all connected.

[1:49:34] Trustee Morrison: And the trust policy statement

[1:49:35] Trustee Morrison: then does actually give teeth

[1:49:38] Trustee Morrison: into like every LTC

[1:49:39] Trustee Morrison: for what those local bylaws need to look like

[1:49:43] Trustee Morrison: and the applications that sort of,

[1:49:45] Trustee Morrison: the implementation of applications

[1:49:47] Trustee Morrison: that come out of them.

[1:49:48] Trustee Morrison: David, did you want to add something?

[1:49:51] Voice 2: Yes, thank you.

[1:49:53] Voice 2: So yeah, Delaney is correct.

[1:49:54] Voice 2: I got no concerns with that advice, with respect to the policy statement and how it works.

[1:50:01] Voice 2: There's two other pieces I just wanted to flag for you that are outside the policy statement.

[1:50:06] Voice 2: One is that Trust Council does have the ability under Section 11 of the Alliance Trust Act

[1:50:12] Voice 2: to set procedures for local trust committees, and that could include engagement with First

[1:50:20] Voice 2: Nations, for example, so meeting procedure bylaws are examples of that.

[1:50:23] Voice 2: That's never been done, but that's another area outside the policy statement that gives council some control.

[1:50:30] Voice 2: So that's one. The other is that the executive committee is not limited to only considering the policy statement.

[1:50:38] Voice 2: So under the legislation, the executive committee can refuse a bylaw for any reason.

[1:50:44] Voice 2: It's true that they cannot approve a bylaw that's contrary to or at variance with the policy statement.

[1:50:51] Voice 2: But there could be other other reasons why the executive committee feels the bylaws shouldn't go forward.

[1:50:59] Voice 2: An example could be that the trust committee has not followed or has not met the reconciliation,

[1:51:07] Voice 2: you know, done no engagement with First Nations.

[1:51:10] Voice 2: And that actually has happened in the past where bylaws have been sent back and said,

[1:51:15] Voice 2: please do this engagement and come back and tell us what you've done and then we'll consider approval of the bylaw.

[1:51:20] Voice 2: So, there are some mechanisms outside the policy statement that can be used, but the policy statement generally is about the approval or non-approval of local trust committee LCPs and land use bylaws and Bowen Island official community plans.

[1:51:40] Trustee Morrison: Okay, Case.

[1:51:41] Trustee Morrison: yeah

[1:51:42] Voice 21: that is a david's response sort of brought up a question for me is regarding the precautionary

[1:51:48] Voice 21: principle because the draft policy statement applies it to ec to trust council but not to

[1:51:54] Voice 21: local trust committees and so if what he's saying is that it may not be applicable to

[1:52:02] Voice 21: a local trust committee but when ec reviews the information presumably they can then apply the

[1:52:09] Voice 21: precautionary principle is that am i accurate than that so

[1:52:14] Voice 16: i i can maybe speak to that that

[1:52:16] Voice 16: that was actually an error it was it was supposed to be included in the list for local trust

[1:52:22] Voice 16: committees as well it was a late addition in one of the later amendments and we just didn't carry

[1:52:28] Voice 16: it through to the list of directive policies so that would be corrected if um it's desired to

[1:52:34] Voice 16: proceed with that that would be corrected in the next draft okay

[1:52:38] Trustee Morrison: thank you and you have that

[1:52:39] Trustee Morrison: documented for correction there's like things like that are so like the draft that goes forward

[1:52:44] Trustee Morrison: to trust council in september with these other recommendations will have that correction made in

[1:52:50] Trustee Morrison: it there's no draft going to

[1:52:53] Voice 16: trust council in september this is this rfd is basically direct

[1:52:58] Voice 16: requesting staff to do the next draft and that next draft would come to the new trust council

[1:53:04] Voice 16: in early 2023 so and it's likely to change substantially so um but that that like right

[1:53:13] Voice 16: now we have commitments of trust council in every section that won't if you pass the recommendations

[1:53:18] Voice 16: that are included here that won't be the case in the next draft so we didn't think to include like

[1:53:25] Voice 16: every single thing that will change but that would be one that would change okay

[1:53:28] Trustee Morrison: so what basically my

[1:53:29] Trustee Morrison: My question is, you already have direction to make

[1:53:32] Trustee Morrison: sure that that change happens.

[1:53:34] Trustee Morrison: So when a draft is iterated, because I want to make sure the next time a

[1:53:38] Trustee Morrison: draft is, just

[1:53:39] Trustee Morrison: one second, I want to make

[1:53:40] Trustee Morrison: sure that the next time a draft is iterated, all of those changes

[1:53:44] Trustee Morrison: that we've talked about are in the next draft, because it becomes a public-facing document

[1:53:48] Trustee Morrison: and we'll have the same thing happen that we had happen last year, where people start

[1:53:52] Trustee Morrison: to run with that draft, and we just want to make sure that it's in

[1:53:55] Trustee Morrison: a place that's sort

[1:53:56] Trustee Morrison: of solid.

[1:53:57] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[1:53:57] Voice 16: In that case, Chair Morrison, I would recommend maybe we add that as a recommendation

[1:54:02] Voice 16: and into the existing policies section. So I'll go back to, and we can do that when we get to

[1:54:09] Voice 16: that section. But just, yeah, what case just said, just so that it's really clear and documented.

[1:54:16] Voice 16: Yeah. So

[1:54:17] Trustee Morrison: if you can figure out the text for that, we'll add it in as an amendment. Thank you,

[1:54:21] Trustee Morrison: case okay anything else on the structure sections uh

[1:54:30] Voice 3: dan thanks

[1:54:37] Voice 15: um interesting

[1:54:41] Voice 15: conversation because what we're exploring is of course this whole discussion that's i think been

[1:54:46] Voice 15: around the trust since the beginning which is the tension between local autonomy and and the role of

[1:54:51] Voice 15: the trust council but my question is a little more specific i i am i i wondered if delaney

[1:54:58] Voice 15: you could help me just understand 1.1 and 1.2 a little bit better

[1:55:03] Voice 18: um

[1:55:04] Voice 15: could you give me when you

[1:55:06] Voice 15: talk about remove detailed coordination policies from each subsection i understand that you're

[1:55:12] Voice 15: going to remove the coordination policies put them somewhere else i i wondered what you what

[1:55:18] Voice 15: what you view as the distinction between more general coordination principles as opposed to

[1:55:24] Voice 15: detailed coordination policies so that I understand what that was good might look like and I appreciate

[1:55:29] Voice 15: you haven't developed that yet but I'd like to have an idea of what that might look like

[1:55:34] Voice 15: and the same goes for 1.2 which talks about more general principles so could you tell me what your

[1:55:41] Voice 15: thought what you're thinking sure

[1:55:42] Voice 16: I can tell you what I'm thinking now but as you noted like as

[1:55:45] Voice 16: as the writing process unfolds, it'll probably become more clear. But at the moment, so when

[1:55:52] Voice 16: evaluating the policy statement, and partly because we were following the form of the previous policy

[1:55:57] Voice 16: statement, there are policies at very different levels, you could say, like some are very general

[1:56:02] Voice 16: and some are actually quite detailed. And so what we're trying to do is determine the right level

[1:56:09] Voice 16: level for the policy statement like the right um tier of kind of specificity um particularly in

[1:56:17] Voice 16: these kind of overarching guidance type policies like the advocacy policies as you noted in the

[1:56:23] Voice 16: last meeting um it's a part of the act it's a part of our mandate and so we we might want to

[1:56:29] Voice 16: have some overarching principles that identify specific maybe topic areas broadly where we would

[1:56:36] Voice 16: like to coordinate with other government agencies and other partners. But we don't need to get as

[1:56:44] Voice 16: specific as we have in the current policy statement and the draft new policy statement

[1:56:50] Voice 16: under each topic category. So I was imagining that that would be a category of its own, just

[1:56:56] Voice 16: highlighting the mandate for coordination and having some broad principles underneath.

[1:57:01] Voice 16: underneath. Similarly, with the commitments of Trust Council, it would be a little bit like the

[1:57:06] Voice 16: regional governance section is right now, but we would just look at the level of what needs to be

[1:57:15] Voice 16: in there, but taking out those commitment policies in every single topic section, and that will reduce

[1:57:23] Voice 16: a lot of the duplication and and help to shorten the document um so yeah trying to um come find the

[1:57:32] Voice 16: right level of um to fill that you know requirement that it be a statement of general policies

[1:57:38] Voice 16: without being you know with while still being specific enough that it's useful policy guidance

[1:57:44] Voice 16: is what we're aiming for and

[1:57:47] Trustee Morrison: i'll add a little bit to that too so the coordination policies which

[1:57:52] Trustee Morrison: have historically been called the advocacy the language in the act is coordination um and it's

[1:57:57] Trustee Morrison: actually three things i think it's coordination something in learning or education there's

[1:58:02] Trustee Morrison: something in there about that there's like a couple different terms anyway those policies

[1:58:07] Trustee Morrison: are really about how we're working with other governments in and their mandates to fulfill the

[1:58:12] Trustee Morrison: sort of larger goals of preserving and protecting the environment and so um what we don't want to

[1:58:18] Trustee Morrison: to do is we don't want to encode hyper detail into those policies because they're emergent

[1:58:24] Trustee Morrison: and dynamic a little bit inside any given timeline. But there are broad areas like marine

[1:58:30] Trustee Morrison: policies, right? Like a marine issues that are arising or, you know, transportation through the

[1:58:37] Trustee Morrison: trust. Boy, wouldn't I like to coordinate around helicopters, right? So like there are sort of

[1:58:42] Trustee Morrison: broad categories that we need to coordinate around. But the specifics of those will be a

[1:58:48] Trustee Morrison: little bit more time emergent and and um issue emergent and so we don't want to hyper detail

[1:58:53] Trustee Morrison: them into the trust and or into the trust policy statement um and then the other one around

[1:58:58] Trustee Morrison: commitments um there there was a lot of duplication and the idea of naming a section regional

[1:59:05] Trustee Morrison: governance um there was a lot of feedback around that that that was just not really flying so with

[1:59:12] Trustee Morrison: with our constituents the way it was framed and that the material that was in there was really

[1:59:17] Trustee Morrison: about these larger principles of like that we're coordinating across ltcs that we're like thinking

[1:59:22] Trustee Morrison: with first nations that we're like implementing drip in important and meaningful ways like those

[1:59:27] Trustee Morrison: types of big principles um case i

[1:59:31] Voice 21: just wanted to i agree with a lot of what's just been said

[1:59:34] Voice 21: when i look at directives i see that as an expression of a trust council commitment it's

[1:59:39] Voice 21: so we don't really need to repeat a directive as a commitment because it is a trust council

[1:59:46] Voice 21: council commitment. At least that's my perspective.

[1:59:49] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, I agree. I think that's probably true. But

[1:59:51] Trustee Morrison: I think there are some higher level things that we also wanted to name. So like, for instance,

[1:59:55] Trustee Morrison: the motions that got passed, like the reconciliation motion, the climate change motion,

[2:00:00] Trustee Morrison: change motion and there's probably some other pieces i think there's something around housing

[2:00:03] Trustee Morrison: like those types of motions actually need to be captured in in our policy because they are like

[2:00:09] Trustee Morrison: broad scale policy directions that the trust is wanting to go and so capturing those broad things

[2:00:17] Trustee Morrison: and then saying into specific directive policies what those might look like um is kind of the

[2:00:22] Trustee Morrison: tiering that needs to be done yeah

[2:00:24] Voice 21: i agree with that i mean it's at a broad high level just not

[2:00:28] Voice 21: the specificity specificity of a trust local trust committee directive needs to be in the

[2:00:36] Voice 21: commitment yeah

[2:00:37] Trustee Morrison: all right any other clarifications on this structure section or or things that you

[2:00:45] Trustee Morrison: think are missed or need to be changed this is the moment okay i'm going to i don't hear any changes

[2:00:55] Trustee Morrison: that are being made per se i didn't think so we didn't record any changes did we no okay

[2:01:04] Trustee Morrison: Okay. Something for later that we're coming up to. Okay. Oh, the only thing I heard was

[2:01:10] Trustee Morrison: examples. So maybe we should just highlight as we're having this briefing, go forward for the

[2:01:16] Trustee Morrison: trust council, just highlight some examples of what might be recommended policies. And I know

[2:01:22] Trustee Morrison: you said they were somewhere else, but maybe make that a little bit clearer. Okay. So let's move

[2:01:28] Trustee Morrison: down to part two revisions to existing content and so we are on page so i'm on part two two

[2:01:36] Trustee Morrison: which is on page 24 i think anybody want to comment on any of these any changes recommended

[2:01:58] Voice 3: um

[2:01:59] Voice 16: go ahead if you want to yeah i can maybe

[2:02:02] Voice 16: just um walk you through these so the first one

[2:02:06] Voice 16: One is the draft, as you will recall, there was a draft policy prohibiting new private

[2:02:12] Voice 16: docks, and this recommendation here is to refine that policy to prohibit new private

[2:02:22] Voice 16: docks in areas of concern, for example, either prohibiting or limiting new private docks

[2:02:29] Voice 16: in areas that have been identified as culturally significant for First Nations or in locations

[2:02:35] Voice 16: that provide critical habitat for species at risk and or and here's where we get into the

[2:02:40] Voice 16: possibility of requiring cumulative effects assessments prior to approval of applications

[2:02:45] Voice 16: so this is something we can actually include as directive policy and it's just a bit more specific

[2:02:52] Voice 16: get rather than a blanket ban getting at kind of the concerns that trust council might have

[2:03:00] Voice 16: if there are any questions i'll just go through them one by one and then if anyone has any

[2:03:04] Voice 16: any questions um the second one i would say like in the current draft new policy of the new policy

[2:03:11] Voice 16: statement there's not much has changed um but in terms of the agricultural policies but there were

[2:03:18] Voice 16: um some very strong reactions to the the changes that were made and so um we've recommended here

[2:03:26] Voice 16: refining the draft agricultural policies to highlight the value of sustainable agriculture

[2:03:30] Voice 16: culture in the trust area so acknowledging like value of that in terms of food security and so on

[2:03:35] Voice 16: while also suggesting preferred approaches that are aligned with the object of the trust

[2:03:40] Voice 16: and first nations rights and interests and um the specific language is yet to be determined

[2:03:48] Voice 16: but just as an overall direction that's kind of what we're recommending um 2.3 is about um

[2:03:55] Voice 16: um again in the draft in the current draft there is a prohibition of new seawall or hard shoreline

[2:04:03] Voice 16: armoring we've again tried to refine that and at your last meeting um some some tpc members

[2:04:11] Voice 16: suggested like needing to prompt for a variance basically like so that it's not like a permitted

[2:04:17] Voice 16: outright but that there needs to be some sort of check and so the only way that we can do that

[2:04:26] Voice 16: is to stipulate certain requirements for for new seawalls or hard shoreline armoring

[2:04:32] Voice 16: such as setback or height limitations that would then prompt a request an application for a

[2:04:43] Voice 16: a variance if you prohibit it outright there's no possibility to apply for a variance and so there

[2:04:49] Voice 16: has to just be some sort of requirement that would prompt that so that's the way we worded it

[2:04:54] Voice 16: hopefully it's in line with what you were kind of discussing at the last meeting and of course

[2:05:00] Voice 16: there would be a broad encouragement of soft shoreline approaches and then 2.4 is removing

[2:05:09] Voice 16: moving um so we're moving the draft commitment of trust council and the draft coordination policy

[2:05:15] Voice 16: advocating for authority to regulate tree cutting acknowledging that trust council may continue to

[2:05:21] Voice 16: do this work irrespective of its inclusion in the policy statements it's not um it's not asking the

[2:05:27] Voice 16: question of whether or not you should continue that work you spoke at your last meeting about

[2:05:32] Voice 16: whether it should be in the policy statement or not and concluded that it would be better to take

[2:05:36] Voice 16: it out um at this time so that's this section and uh if anyone has any questions i'd be too

[2:05:46] Voice 16: or would like to make any amendments and yeah

[2:05:54] Trustee McConchie: just it's just basically getting rid of all the

[2:05:56] Trustee McConchie: controversial stuff that everyone got worked up about essentially it's removing the that's

[2:06:02] Trustee McConchie: why i interpret this if i'm understanding correctly and the intent from my fellow trustees

[2:06:06] Trustee McConchie: right so

[2:06:07] Trustee Morrison: my interpretation of this the first three is refining it so that we're finding ways to

[2:06:13] Trustee Morrison: actually make it directive but also allow for some of the very specific instances that came up that

[2:06:21] Trustee Morrison: were so like for the hard shoreline it was there was one that was actually protection of a burial

[2:06:27] Trustee Morrison: site that had came up and so they wouldn't be allowed to create a hard barrier to protect that

[2:06:33] Trustee Morrison: burial site because of our own rules so that's like allowing for a pathway to do it still

[2:06:38] Trustee Morrison: requiring basically that people don't do it but but allowing for for these weird little twists

[2:06:45] Trustee Morrison: and so the only one that I think is what you just said Ben is 2.4 so 2.4 is actually like removing

[2:06:54] Trustee Morrison: it and I'm not sure how I feel about that because I but it's one of those power problems that maybe

[2:07:01] Trustee Morrison: maybe it's in the recommended policies right now but we don't have anything we can say about it

[2:07:06] Trustee Morrison: because we don't have that authority at all from the province yet and yet you know galliano is

[2:07:10] Trustee Morrison: trying some options around that so i don't know that 2.4 is still a bit of a struggle for me um

[2:07:17] Trustee Morrison: steve uh

[2:07:22] Voice 23: well i would agree that 2.4 is problematic it's um i think tree cutting is probably

[2:07:29] Voice 23: probably one of the most important policies and actions we can take and I understand that there

[2:07:36] Voice 23: is some ongoing discussions between Ministry of Forests and Trust staff in order to try and

[2:07:43] Voice 23: gain some but perhaps it might take some of the bite out of the BS that's being passed around by

[2:07:49] Voice 23: a number of people throughout the Trust area is that we be a little more specific on the types

[2:07:56] Voice 23: of trees and the conditions under which we would like to control tree cutting

[2:08:01] Voice 23: because we're to have an open policy to say that we are wanting to regulate tree

[2:08:07] Voice 23: cutting only is inviting the discussion about that we are going to stop people

[2:08:13] Voice 23: from cutting down dead trees which is going to result in the burning of their

[2:08:17] Voice 23: house down and we got to get rid of that ridiculous type of conversation going on

[2:08:22] Voice 23: so maybe rather than remove it maybe we should refine it and be a little more

[2:08:26] Voice 23: more specific on exactly what we're looking for.

[2:08:28] Voice 23: So

[2:08:32] Voice 16: just one point of clarification.

[2:08:35] Voice 16: The first three on this list are directive policies,

[2:08:39] Voice 16: which we can refine.

[2:08:41] Voice 16: This one was not a directive policy because obviously we're just advocating

[2:08:47] Voice 16: for it. So if we take out, as we've said earlier,

[2:08:50] Voice 16: the specificity of the coordination policies,

[2:08:53] Voice 16: this would naturally be removed.

[2:08:55] Voice 16: moved so to include it would be um not kind of in line with the overall structure of the policy

[2:09:02] Voice 16: statement um but there would be the broad um like the remaining policies around like the protection

[2:09:09] Voice 16: of forest cover and so on like those would still be there and the local trust committees can still

[2:09:15] Voice 16: opt to do this work at the at the local level regardless you know so i would just offer that

[2:09:21] Voice 16: that for feedback but we'll however you'd like to amend this we'll just take your direction

[2:09:27] Voice 16: so

[2:09:28] Trustee Morrison: Delaney just a quick point of clarification so removing this specific piece doesn't remove

[2:09:33] Trustee Morrison: the idea that we are still coordinating with other levels of government around tree or forest

[2:09:41] Trustee Morrison: management practice and efforts that's still in there that's that will still be in there yeah at

[2:09:46] Trustee Morrison: at the broad level yeah okay so that the challenge we're facing here is that we're so many different

[2:09:51] Trustee Morrison: pieces of this policy statement are moving that it does appear when we do this one edit that is

[2:09:57] Trustee Morrison: like removing the entire conversation around tree cutting but it's not it's just putting it into the

[2:10:02] Trustee Morrison: coordination practices and making it part of the strategic planning conversation so that we can

[2:10:07] Trustee Morrison: refine it down to a more specific point that hopefully in the next term we actually have

[2:10:11] Trustee Morrison: those regulatory authorities and we can put it into the trust policy statement in a more specific way

[2:10:16] Trustee Morrison: so um okay there's a lot of hands on this so i'm gonna go and let's yeah okay so tim case claire

[2:10:25] Trustee Morrison: and ben yeah

[2:10:30] Voice 12: so thank you chair um i mean it's my understanding that the request of the province

[2:10:36] Voice 12: is to um grant lt sees some tree cutting regulatory authority and um so i don't see that

[2:10:46] Voice 12: that removing this at this time from the draft

[2:10:50] Voice 12: is gonna change that in any way.

[2:10:53] Voice 12: And I think that sort of speaking

[2:10:59] Voice 12: the way the request the province is speaking to LTCs,

[2:11:04] Voice 12: which again sort of retains the local autonomy question.

[2:11:11] Voice 12: I actually don't think that it's problematic

[2:11:14] Voice 12: to go ahead and remove that section

[2:11:19] Voice 12: from the trust policy statement at this point.

[2:11:22] Voice 12: So I'm just speaking in support.

[2:11:26] Voice 21: Case?

[2:11:28] Voice 21: Yeah, I mean, the bottom line is

[2:11:29] Voice 21: the local trust committee can create a DPA on tree cutting.

[2:11:33] Voice 21: Galliano has an island-wide DPA, such as that.

[2:11:37] Voice 21: It's difficult to enforce, of course.

[2:11:39] Voice 21: And I guess the request of the province

[2:11:41] Voice 21: was to try to get a permit structure in place

[2:11:43] Voice 21: that would be more enforceable so i'm sort of mixed feelings about removing it okay

[2:11:52] Trustee Morrison: um and

[2:11:55] Trustee Morrison: again remember like in this moment these are recommendations we're putting forward to trust

[2:11:59] Trustee Morrison: council so trust council will also have this like i'm sure this one will like instigate a ton of

[2:12:05] Trustee Morrison: conversation at trust council so just be aware of that claire uh

[2:12:11] Voice 17: that was that's related to my

[2:12:12] Voice 17: point and just referencing trustee right wanting to perhaps more have more conversation at trust

[2:12:16] Voice 17: council on this topic. Certainly that can happen irrespective of whether the topic's in the policy

[2:12:21] Voice 17: statement or not. And that may be something you want to recommend is that there be further

[2:12:25] Voice 17: conversation or refinement of the ask or more, you know, it might be a theme of next term that

[2:12:30] Voice 17: there'd be some education about how this tool works. When we produced the fact sheet for Island

[2:12:34] Voice 17: 2050, we highlighted that in fact, there would be local autonomy. So it would be, this would be a

[2:12:40] Voice 17: tool in the, you know, the tool in your toolbox that a local trust committee could choose to use

[2:12:45] Voice 17: or not and if they choose to use it there would be local engagement around how they choose to apply

[2:12:49] Voice 17: that tool so that may be something in terms of your chair letter or future recommendations to

[2:12:54] Voice 17: council that may be something you want to contemplate that be further dialogue on this

[2:12:58] Voice 17: topic in my view you know right now you have a council resolution to proceed so it's a little

[2:13:04] Voice 17: bit immaterial whether the advocacy topics in the policy statement or not and as Delaney mentioned

[2:13:09] Voice 17: it would be somewhat inconsistent with the recommendation we have and the direction you

[2:13:12] Voice 17: have from council to simplify the document to keep it in there ben

[2:13:17] Trustee McConchie: i'm not sure if this is

[2:13:19] Trustee McConchie: helpful but i'm gonna say it anyways if that's okay chair morrison um it's i feel like the we're

[2:13:25] Trustee McConchie: gonna lose the discussion in the community if we keep using words like tree cutting and regulation

[2:13:29] Trustee McConchie: as opposed to words like forestry management plan or you know like on sydney island like i've

[2:13:37] Trustee McConchie: brought up before with this committee they have a fantastic forestry management plan i recommend

[2:13:42] Trustee McConchie: everyone get hip to it and then they have community buy-in because it's considered a plan

[2:13:47] Trustee McConchie: and it's considered a hey this that we're working towards something just the the semantics of it

[2:13:52] Trustee McConchie: right now are we are regulatory tree cutting and these are just hot words that i don't necessarily

[2:13:58] Trustee McConchie: know we'll get community buy-in the way it's currently worded so i don't mean to i i'm i'm

[2:14:04] Trustee McConchie: opposed to using those terms would be my uh position right now and

[2:14:10] Trustee Morrison: i think one of the reasons

[2:14:11] Trustee Morrison: that we came to last meeting for pulling that out is part of that like the tree cutting as language

[2:14:16] Trustee Morrison: we don't want that in the policy statement and then the other issue is that well I think all of

[2:14:22] Trustee Morrison: us are in agreement that we need forest management we need that in the coordination policies more

[2:14:27] Trustee Morrison: generally as forest management coordinating with people who actually have that authority right now

[2:14:32] Trustee Morrison: and like advocating with them from the motion that Claire just mentioned around getting more

[2:14:38] Trustee Morrison: more appropriate local authorities to manage that so yeah so this does that it sounds awful right

[2:14:44] Trustee Morrison: now because it sounds like we don't care about trees and we're pulling it out but that's not the

[2:14:47] Trustee Morrison: what the intent will do what it will do is it'll remove that inflammatory language and it will

[2:14:53] Trustee Morrison: keep it in that general box of coordinating policies of forest management okay uh dan yeah

[2:15:00] Voice 15: and just total agreement just remind you of our conversation that when we had the draft policy

[2:15:07] Voice 15: in front of us in July,

[2:15:09] Voice 15: there are a whole series of policies

[2:15:12] Voice 15: related to forest management

[2:15:14] Voice 15: and that are still there and we're not talking,

[2:15:18] Voice 15: we're just talking about this one little piece

[2:15:20] Voice 15: and I agree with what Trustee McConkie says.

[2:15:24] Trustee Morrison: Delaney.

[2:15:25] Voice 16: Yeah, I just wanted to highlight also

[2:15:27] Voice 16: that at the June Trust Council meeting,

[2:15:30] Voice 16: Trust Council passed this resolution

[2:15:32] Voice 16: requesting staff to provide options

[2:15:34] Voice 16: for draft policy language for the draft policy statement

[2:15:37] Voice 16: to encourage preservation of forest cover in the trust area this will include reference to

[2:15:41] Voice 16: sustainable forest management practices and as we discussed at the july tpc meeting the

[2:15:47] Voice 16: current policy statement already fulfills um fulfills that there are a number of policies

[2:15:52] Voice 16: focused on um forest protection and forest management so that will be maintained in the

[2:15:58] Voice 16: in the next draft going forward and wherever possible we'll try to strengthen that um

[2:16:04] Voice 16: yeah

[2:16:06] Trustee Morrison: so it it and so i think delaney the the thing that we need to name as this brief goes

[2:16:12] Trustee Morrison: forward to trust council is that we actually need to provide a little buffer and like

[2:16:18] Trustee Morrison: um a couple slides maybe even like of like just so you know this is the language that's still in

[2:16:23] Trustee Morrison: there we're moving this piece just because of the language around tree cutting and the the dilemma

[2:16:29] Trustee Morrison: that it brings up in terms of community conversations and work because it's doing the

[2:16:34] Trustee Morrison: intent of what we're all saying here that we have a general coordination policy around tree

[2:16:39] Trustee Morrison: forest management we have some specific policies around forest management and then we are removing

[2:16:45] Trustee Morrison: this one because it's it's shifting the conversation more towards combative kind of

[2:16:50] Trustee Morrison: tree cutting language we don't want that

[2:16:52] Voice 16: and so would you like me to add a background like

[2:16:56] Voice 16: paragraph in the yeah and I

[2:16:58] Trustee Morrison: think and I think like the it might be helpful to include the 2050

[2:17:04] Trustee Morrison: brief that you had like the 2050 community fact sheet that you had on the area as well

[2:17:11] Voice 16: like as an attachment to the RFP okay can

[2:17:17] Voice 17: I just clarify do you want to add the whole attachment

[2:17:19] Voice 17: or simply there's just that whole that fact sheet is general to forestry but within it there's just

[2:17:24] Voice 17: a small section on tree cutting my recommendation

[2:17:26] Voice 17: forestry i want the whole

[2:17:28] Voice 17: forestry thing out of

[2:17:28] Voice 17: you

[2:17:29] Trustee Morrison: yeah i think so because i think the more background that trustees have around the like

[2:17:32] Trustee Morrison: breadth of the the work is better because we're looking at these as isolated little things we're

[2:17:37] Trustee Morrison: pulling in and out and that's really hard to get our head around the whole idea of what we're

[2:17:41] Trustee Morrison: trying to do okay anything else on these do you need any motions related to that or you're good

[2:17:52] Trustee Morrison: um claire do you think we need a motion to add background

[2:17:55] Voice 17: information uh

[2:17:56] Voice 17: so long as we're

[2:17:57] Voice 17: keeping a list our tradition has been you can when you pass the motion to forward this to council you

[2:18:01] Voice 17: can say as amended if you wish to highlight something specifically where you feel like you

[2:18:05] Voice 17: need to be transparent it was direction to staff you can add it but it is sufficient to just forward

[2:18:09] Voice 17: as amended and we'll keep a running list of what that means yeah

[2:18:12] Voice 16: and so from uh what i'm hearing

[2:18:14] Voice 16: there are no specific amendments to these draft resolutions but I'm going to add a paragraph

[2:18:21] Voice 16: of background in terms of the rationale for 2.4 and attach the forest protection or forest

[2:18:31] Voice 16: stewardship fact sheet to the RFD as an attachment. Okay.

[2:18:37] Trustee Morrison: Is there anything else trustees would like

[2:18:39] Trustee Morrison: to recommend right now is that sum it up yeah

[2:18:43] Voice 16: this is i think also the section where we could add in

[2:18:46] Voice 16: that precautionary principle um recommendation so you

[2:18:53] Trustee Morrison: have language for

[2:18:53] Voice 16: that i'm yeah so i'm

[2:18:54] Voice 16: looking at the way it's currently worded as a the the trust council policy combines a few different

[2:19:00] Voice 16: things it says it is trust council's policy that decision making should be guided by the

[2:19:04] Voice 16: the precautionary principle and the best available science

[2:19:08] Voice 16: and indigenous ways of knowing.

[2:19:10] Voice 16: But we could just say include a directive policy.

[2:19:21] Voice 16: Well, it couldn't be a directive policy.

[2:19:23] Voice 16: It would have to be a recommended,

[2:19:25] Voice 16: one of those recommended policies

[2:19:29] Voice 16: or overarching commitment because this isn't,

[2:19:33] Voice 16: this is more a principle.

[2:19:34] Voice 16: possible um so would you like it to be in the more general um commitment section okay so

[2:19:46] Voice 16: so

[2:19:46] Trustee Morrison: pause for one second i think we actually need to ask that of everybody me not even

[2:19:52] Trustee Morrison: that is not

[2:19:53] Trustee Morrison: though so so so the choices we would have would be to put it in the overarching commitments which

[2:19:59] Trustee Morrison: would then help executive committee kind of vet some of those things that are coming in and out

[2:20:04] Trustee Morrison: and actually pinpoint a commitment that is potentially being breached by an OCP or bylaws

[2:20:12] Trustee Morrison: and versus a recommended policy can it be in both places

[2:20:18] Voice 16: it can yeah so it can the way we have it

[2:20:20] Voice 16: the other way we have it in the directive policy right now is that local trust committee then I

[2:20:27] Voice 16: mean municipalities shall in their official community plans and regulatory bylaws we could

[2:20:32] Voice 16: say ground decision making in the precautionary principle right now

[2:20:35] Voice 16: right yeah so do you want it

[2:20:38] Voice 16: in both both as an overarching principle and as a directive policy

[2:20:43] Trustee Morrison: it could just be in direct well

[2:20:46] Trustee Morrison: i think it should be in both because if there's a directive policy there should be some background

[2:20:50] Trustee Morrison: about like in the overarching but others any thoughts on that case do you want to name anything

[2:20:55] Trustee Morrison: into that since you were talking about that earlier yeah

[2:20:58] Voice 21: well my sense is that a directive

[2:21:00] Voice 21: is a trust council commitment anyway what decisions would trust council be making when

[2:21:06] Voice 21: they would be applying that precautionary principle because they don't make decisions

[2:21:10] Voice 21: on land use regulation themselves maybe i got that wrong but

[2:21:15] Voice 16: no so case if i can um through

[2:21:18] Voice 16: the chair the so if we're moving to this new model where there will be overarching principles

[2:21:25] Voice 16: recommended policies that guide daily decision making and then directive policies that pertain

[2:21:30] Voice 16: solely to ocps and bylaws then if it's a directive policy it would be basically asking the um local

[2:21:39] Voice 16: trust committee to include that in their like that commitment to guide decision making by

[2:21:45] Voice 16: rationing your principal but um it could also be now this recommended policy that is more like the

[2:21:52] Voice 16: guidance for daily decision making okay

[2:21:56] Voice 21: high level sort of commitment okay i can i can buy that

[2:22:00] Voice 21: That actually links into another question I've got, which is regarding the removal of a sentence.

[2:22:05] Voice 21: I think it's in the local trust committee section at the beginning.

[2:22:09] Voice 21: It used to say local trust committees are only guided by directives, and that's not in the revised version,

[2:22:19] Voice 21: which sort of lends credence to the idea that other policies that aren't directives also apply to local trust committees.

[2:22:28] Voice 21: and was that the intent okay

[2:22:32] Trustee Morrison: so i'm going to pause this because there's two conversations

[2:22:34] Trustee Morrison: going on and i need us to finish one before we start so um can we finish the conversation around

[2:22:41] Trustee Morrison: where we include the precautionary principle personally i think it actually needs to flow

[2:22:47] Trustee Morrison: through all levels um because it is a recommended thing that we want ltcs to see put into their

[2:22:55] Trustee Morrison: their daily practice of reviewing applications, it is also something that we'd love them to put

[2:23:00] Trustee Morrison: into their bylaws and their OCPs. And it's a very, very high level kind of principle of like how we

[2:23:07] Trustee Morrison: manage that we're not actually trying to develop first and then like get evidence to see if that

[2:23:12] Trustee Morrison: was bad or good. We're actually trying to like get ahead of that. So thoughts, can I, and Delana,

[2:23:20] Trustee Morrison: if I can just like if if can it be in all three I guess is the yes or no question or is it better

[2:23:27] Trustee Morrison: to like because there it serves different purposes in each area so Delaney can you weigh in on that

[2:23:34] Trustee Morrison: can it be um

[2:23:35] Voice 16: it can be in all three I would say um implementing the precautionary principle is a

[2:23:43] Voice 16: whole topic unto itself there are some guidelines by the IUCN the um international union for the

[2:23:50] Voice 16: Conservation and Nature has guidelines which we've previously provided to council but

[2:23:55] Voice 16: it's so it's one of those things that will be difficult to determine if it's being adhered to

[2:24:03] Voice 16: or not but it's helpful as policy guidance and an approach a values-based approach

[2:24:09] Voice 16: so I would say quite honestly it fits best in the overarching guidance if you want to include it

[2:24:19] Voice 16: we definitely can and perhaps the best way to move forward on a particular resolution would be to just

[2:24:25] Voice 16: request staff to consider how the precautionary principle principle could be included at various

[2:24:34] Voice 16: levels of the policy statement and then that gives us some time to kind of like look into the details

[2:24:39] Voice 16: of that yeah okay

[2:24:41] Trustee Morrison: uh

[2:24:44] Voice 12: yeah that's uh Delania said just almost exactly what my thinking was which is

[2:24:50] Voice 12: you know if we're applying the precautionary principle we should be thinking about applying

[2:24:55] Voice 12: it everywhere that it's you know that it that it comes into play so um i support it being

[2:25:01] Voice 12: everywhere that it needs you know can you make a

[2:25:03] Trustee Morrison: motion to that effect tim okay

[2:25:08] Voice 12: so we're looking

[2:25:08] Voice 12: for some staff direction right so um uh just gonna try this on the fly i moved that um rpc request

[2:25:17] Voice 12: us staff to evaluate where inclusion of the precautionary principle is appropriate to

[2:25:34] Voice 12: name in the policy statement draft.

[2:25:37] Voice 8: Does that cover it?

[2:25:41] Voice 3: Okay. And if we can get that up on the screen. And Robert, if you didn't get that,

[2:25:53] Voice 3: just threw it in the chat to you no and i put rbc but i meant tpc and uh and if we can um put the

[2:26:22] Trustee Morrison: trust policy statement draft yeah okay does that reflect your thinking trustee peterson if that's

[2:26:38] Voice 10: uh if that's specific enough for staff then that's certainly good enough for me

[2:26:44] Voice 16: delaney i think so

[2:26:46] Voice 16: So, and we would just add basically like 2.5 and we would, yeah, add it in like that.

[2:26:55] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[2:26:59] Trustee Morrison: So do you need the motion to say that, or are you okay with this motion?

[2:27:03] Voice 16: Well, is it, I'm going to look to Claire for some guidance here.

[2:27:06] Voice 16: It would be nice if we had just a bit of leeway to draft it in the RFD that's in a way that's

[2:27:13] Voice 16: aligned with the rest of the RFD and just have the broad direction here.

[2:27:16] Voice 16: but is that clear do we need it like specific language amendment so

[2:27:22] Voice 17: this this print this is

[2:27:23] Voice 17: sort of direction to staff about the policy statement amendments itself it might be more

[2:27:26] Voice 17: if in fact what you're asking us to do is amend the rfd to council yeah i understand correctly

[2:27:31] Voice 17: so it

[2:27:32] Voice 17: might be um better framed as something along the lines of that stress that trust programs

[2:27:37] Voice 17: committee um request staff to draft a recommendation to trust council regarding inclusion

[2:27:42] Voice 17: of the cautionary principle.

[2:27:45] Voice 17: Something along those lines,

[2:27:46] Voice 17: but it's a bit more a recommendation.

[2:27:48] Voice 17: Yeah, so let's, can you say that language

[2:27:50] Voice 17: one more time for Robert?

[2:27:52] Voice 17: Trust Programs Committee request staff.

[2:27:54] Voice 17: So Robert, you could edit the one

[2:27:55] Voice 17: that's on the screen right now.

[2:27:56] Voice 17: Request staff to draft a recommendation

[2:28:01] Voice 17: to Trust Council regarding inclusion.

[2:28:08] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so inclusion's there now.

[2:28:10] Trustee Morrison: So let's just remove the where.

[2:28:17] Trustee Morrison: in and then I think it could just be

[2:28:19] Trustee Morrison: as simple as in the policy statement draft in the of the

[2:28:23] Trustee Morrison: precautionary principle in the policy statement draft yeah if

[2:28:27] Voice 17: you'd like it to be that general

[2:28:28] Voice 17: if you would like to name the particular you know you could also be explicit regarding you know

[2:28:33] Voice 17: considering what have we got um commitments recommendations directives but I think that

[2:28:41] Voice 17: general is probably final defer to Delaney as to what's most useful to her yeah

[2:28:44] Voice 16: it's this is fine

[2:28:46] Voice 16: I know the intent of the committee so I'll take that going forward.

[2:28:50] Trustee Morrison: So Trustee Peterson are you

[2:28:52] Trustee Morrison: all right with that?

[2:28:55] Voice 8: Yeah that's that's that's perfect. I just wanted to work for staff as well

[2:29:01] Voice 8: as thank you.

[2:29:02] Trustee Morrison: Okay can we get a second on that? Trustee Wright is that a second? Sorry I've got

[2:29:10] Trustee Morrison: people's faces blinking off my screen. Yeah okay so a second by Trustee Wright. Okay any comment

[2:29:15] Trustee Morrison: on this motion okay i'm gonna have a sorry trustee uh chair luckham i

[2:29:26] Trustee Luckham: don't have my hand up okay no

[2:29:28] Trustee Morrison: sorry you just came off mute i guess i heard you so um

[2:29:32] Trustee Luckham: okay um

[2:29:36] Trustee Morrison: and uh um it's funny because of the

[2:29:41] Trustee Morrison: way you're named as ex officio luckham i'm having trouble saying chair luckham every time because

[2:29:45] Trustee Morrison: i'm looking at the ex officio electum so anyway um all right so any other comments on this motion

[2:29:53] Trustee Morrison: all right i'm going to go ahead and ask for the vote all hands up who are in favor

[2:30:08] Voice 3: okay uh hands down any opposed okay that motion carries all

[2:30:25] Trustee Morrison: right um any further conversation on

[2:30:28] Trustee Morrison: the existing so part two to the existing content revision um chair Luckum yeah

[2:30:36] Trustee Luckham: I may be speaking

[2:30:38] Trustee Luckham: out of turn it's just I'm happy about the most recent motion there regarding the um

[2:30:46] Trustee Luckham: the precautionary principle. However, I am also, you know, having been in an envious position of

[2:30:54] Trustee Luckham: having to determine whether or not things are compliant with the policy statement in the past

[2:30:59] Trustee Luckham: on EC, I'm cognizant of what Delaney has suggested, that there are guidelines surrounding

[2:31:06] Trustee Luckham: that decision-making process, because I think it's incredibly important that the criteria be clear

[2:31:12] Trustee Luckham: and that it be applied consistently across all of the work,

[2:31:17] Trustee Luckham: both at the LTC and at the executive committee

[2:31:20] Trustee Luckham: and wonder where and how it is we might provide that opportunity

[2:31:27] Trustee Luckham: in a meaningful way in relation, not necessarily in the policy statement,

[2:31:31] Trustee Luckham: but in relation to the policy statement and reflected in the policy statement

[2:31:35] Trustee Luckham: that there are guidelines.

[2:31:37] Trustee Luckham: Because there's a lot of wide ranging points of view

[2:31:42] Trustee Luckham: on how the policy how the precautionary principle should be applied so

[2:31:47] Trustee Morrison: from that perspective um

[2:31:49] Trustee Morrison: chair locum maybe one of the things that needs to be included as you're thinking about that

[2:31:54] Trustee Morrison: and i think it's covered in the motion that we just made but is there a definition of precautionary

[2:31:59] Trustee Morrison: principle that needs to be added in and referenced to particular standards exactly

[2:32:03] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[2:32:04] Trustee Morrison: okay so i i

[2:32:06] Trustee Morrison: don't think we need a separate motion for that but i think we need to consider that when you're

[2:32:10] Trustee Morrison: making recommendations around how to include the the precautionary principle um uh trustee case

[2:32:16] Trustee Morrison: yeah just uh

[2:32:18] Voice 21: just there's one the question i segued into earlier which was about

[2:32:26] Voice 21: the removal

[2:32:26] Voice 21: of the statement local trust committees are only directed by directives or subject to directives

[2:32:33] Voice 21: that's not in the revised policy statement i'm just not sure given our conversation around the

[2:32:39] Voice 21: relationship between commitments and directives and recommendations whether that should be back

[2:32:44] Voice 21: in or not and why it was removed.

[2:32:48] Trustee Morrison: Devani and can any response can you also address the like

[2:32:52] Trustee Morrison: what is in the policy statement versus in the potential handbook kind of related things because

[2:32:58] Trustee Morrison: some of that may be in the handbook.

[2:33:00] Voice 16: Well I think what case is asking is that can you can you repeat

[2:33:04] Voice 16: that line case that was in the previous policy statement yeah

[2:33:07] Voice 21: it was in the in the description

[2:33:09] Voice 21: of i think local trust committees in one of the earlier parts part two i think it was where it

[2:33:16] Voice 21: said that local trust committees are only to follow are only bound by directives

[2:33:22] Voice 16: as a statement

[2:33:24] Voice 21: and that sentence is gone from the revised policy statement yeah

[2:33:28] Voice 16: and so part of the reason we

[2:33:29] Voice 16: we removed that was because as we were doing that work um seeking the legal opinion and so on

[2:33:36] Voice 16: in that publicly released legal opinion um there there was this advice that trust council is bound

[2:33:44] Voice 16: trust council and local trust committees and like basically trustees are bound to the island's trust

[2:33:49] Voice 16: object whether they're in trust council or at the ltc level and so the guidance and the policy

[2:33:54] Voice 16: statement although it's like as we discussed it's not necessarily enforceable or or um i want to say

[2:34:03] Voice 16: punishable if it's you know unless it's in the ocps or bylaws there's still it still is policy

[2:34:11] Voice 16: guidance and so it still does influence the ltc um and that's why we removed it but perhaps we need

[2:34:19] Voice 16: to put in more clarification on that relationship yeah yeah

[2:34:22] Voice 21: i'm not i'm not arguing to keep it in

[2:34:25] Voice 21: necessarily i just was curious about why it was removed

[2:34:27] Voice 18: you

[2:34:28] Voice 21: know and because the other point for

[2:34:30] Voice 21: me is that you have a policy which says that then you revise the policy which removes it so what are

[2:34:36] Voice 21: the implications behind that presumably it

[2:34:39] Voice 21: means there's a change in policy intended so but i'm not

[2:34:43] Voice 21: opposed to it not i'm fine with it not being there so and

[2:34:48] Trustee Morrison: so my understanding case of removing it is

[2:34:51] Trustee Morrison: is essentially the entire trust policy statement

[2:34:54] Trustee Morrison: is actually applies to all trustees in all their roles.

[2:35:01] Trustee Morrison: The challenge that we have is the directive policies

[2:35:04] Trustee Morrison: are more legally enforceable from a pushback perspective.

[2:35:09] Trustee Morrison: An LCC pushes back against the trust counsel

[2:35:12] Trustee Morrison: or executive related to it.

[2:35:14] Trustee Morrison: Whereas the recommended policies,

[2:35:16] Trustee Morrison: we don't have as much legal footing

[2:35:18] Trustee Morrison: if local government-related concerns are taken into account at the local area.

[2:35:23] Trustee Morrison: So that's just the difference.

[2:35:25] Trustee Morrison: But ethically and legally speaking, local citizens could potentially, you know,

[2:35:30] Trustee Morrison: argue against their LTCs if they're not implementing recommended policies too

[2:35:35] Trustee Morrison: because they are actually, you know, should be implemented.

[2:35:39] Voice 21: Yeah, and basically our discussion here is part of the background information

[2:35:43] Voice 21: to our determining whether it's reasonable or not what we're doing.

[2:35:47] Voice 21: and that's right

[2:35:48] Voice 21: that babelov decision so that's why i raised it as well yeah

[2:35:51] Trustee Morrison: absolutely all right

[2:35:54] Trustee Morrison: anything else in the revision section trustee critchley thank

[2:36:03] Trustee Critchley: you so chair lockham raised a

[2:36:06] Trustee Critchley: very significant point for me i think with respect to this precautionary principle

[2:36:13] Trustee Critchley: and particularly as it applies to the decisions of the executive committee

[2:36:17] Trustee Critchley: committee, which is really the ultimate gatekeeper and protector under our system.

[2:36:25] Trustee Critchley: I'm wondering if we need, do we need something in the trust policy statement as to the

[2:36:33] Trustee Critchley: specific guidance dealing with the topic of executive committee and its role in preserve

[2:36:40] Trustee Critchley: and protect mandate and emphasizing the application of a precautionary principle

[2:36:47] Trustee Critchley: when it is reviewing the bylaws of other local trust committees and rezoning and such like.

[2:36:55] Trustee Critchley: Because it seems to me EC has this unique, extremely powerful role, potentially, but it is rarely exercised.

[2:37:04] Trustee Critchley: For example, as far as I know, maybe I'm wrong, but there's only the one Galliano example where EC actually exercised that power.

[2:37:15] Trustee Critchley: So I would be interested. I think this is a very crucial topic to have discussion of the committee on whether we should be looking at a standalone provision dealing with EC's power for these purposes.

[2:37:33] Trustee Critchley: So I just turned over if there's interest in discussing that.

[2:37:37] Trustee Critchley: Yeah,

[2:37:38] Trustee Morrison: so I had a question about this related to what is in this policy and where we actually draw the line around trust policy statement implementation practices, right?

[2:37:52] Trustee Morrison: Right. Because and maybe Delaney or Claire or David, you could clarify this for me.

[2:37:57] Trustee Morrison: But my understanding is that there is policy related to the implementation of trust policy work that's not in the trust policy that is a separate piece of policy.

[2:38:09] Trustee Morrison: And so maybe if I could just have some clarification around that, because that, I think, Trustee Critchley, is very much in the ballpark for next term's governance committee to review, frankly.

[2:38:22] Trustee Morrison: I think that's a governance issue.

[2:38:25] Trustee Morrison: Trustee, or sorry, David, did you want to comment on that?

[2:38:30] Voice 2: Just to confirm, there is a policy under council policies, which is the implementation policy of the Allen's Trust Policy Statement.

[2:38:38] Voice 2: okay

[2:38:41] Trustee Morrison: and that would that is where some of the sort of roles and responsibilities of who does

[2:38:46] Trustee Morrison: what is defined i

[2:38:48] Voice 2: would have to go through it it's a pretty old policy so it was brought in

[2:38:52] Voice 2: after the policy statement was created i could have a

[2:38:55] Voice 2: quick look while you're talking let you

[2:38:56] Voice 2: know later okay

[2:38:58] Trustee Morrison: and i know there has been conversation and feedback from people in the

[2:39:01] Trustee Morrison: community about weaving that into the trust policy statement instead of having this a separate thing

[2:39:06] Trustee Morrison: but i don't know if that's in the purview of this scope of this project right now um delaney

[2:39:13] Voice 16: yes i just flagged that in the structural revisions we did include that as a recommendation

[2:39:18] Voice 16: 1.6 explore updating and integrating both the amendment policy and the implementation policy

[2:39:24] Voice 16: right and also um this notion of a companion handbook and what we're trying to do is fill

[2:39:30] Voice 16: in some of those pieces um in in in those ways i'd also say there is a section in the current

[2:39:37] Voice 16: policy statement and the drafting policy statement which defines executive committee's role

[2:39:42] Voice 16: um and but um to trustee critchley's point it doesn't specifically require executive committee to

[2:39:50] Voice 16: um act in it this is really trust counsel's document this um the policy statement

[2:39:57] Voice 16: And so it doesn't stipulate certain things for executive committee, whether or not we could do that we'd have to look into that.

[2:40:07] Voice 16: But the role of executive committee is already listed there.

[2:40:11] Trustee Morrison: So, so the things that were in the structural section under 1.6 already actually start to take into account what what potential integration that might be.

[2:40:21] Trustee Morrison: and so assumably that would mean that as we start dealing with the implementation of things like the

[2:40:28] Trustee Morrison: precautionary principle there would have to be some guidelines defined that would be part of

[2:40:32] Trustee Morrison: the work that would need to be done okay wow scope creep okay uh dan um

[2:40:41] Voice 15: we've drifted into a

[2:40:43] Voice 15: a very important part of this whole thing and and it goes back to some of the conversation

[2:40:48] Voice 15: we were having earlier today is because of course the implementation policy is the policy whereby

[2:40:54] Voice 15: that is a policy of trust council but it it is a policy under which local trust committees can

[2:41:02] Voice 15: justify why they aren't following a directive policy i mean i'm short forming it it's a little

[2:41:07] Voice 15: more complicated than that but they can how they can justify why they are not going to follow a

[2:41:13] Voice 15: directive policy and want and want to do something different that's that whole conversation about

[2:41:19] Voice 15: about um local autonomy versus uh direct direction from a centralized um body the federation argument

[2:41:27] Voice 15: that everybody should be playing by the same rules but that's the policy so and we haven't

[2:41:32] Voice 15: gotten our scope our scope to amend this policy but and if that policy remains unamended that

[2:41:38] Voice 15: That power for local trust committees will remain, which is why it needs to be part of, or at least an appendix to the trust policy, because very few people understand that this exists.

[2:41:50] Voice 15: But that's how that comes about, how it is that some local trust committees don't implement mandatory policies that are contained in the trust policy statement, in their bylaws, in their amendments.

[2:42:02] Voice 15: The other thing I wanted to say, and it's a slightly separate topic, is I was quite interested in what David Critchley and Chair Luckham had to say, is I'm a little, I'm not nervous, but it would be critically important, in my view, to have a very clear definition as to what the precautionary principle is and how it would be applied in a particular instance.

[2:42:31] Voice 15: instance i would agree the executive committee very very rarely interferes with the decision

[2:42:36] Voice 15: making as long as it's been done properly with the of the local trust committees because they

[2:42:41] Voice 15: are guided by staff and follow the policy trust policy statement for the most part etc and there's

[2:42:46] Voice 15: usually very reasoned uh reasons for why they do what they do but members of the communities often

[2:42:52] Voice 15: use that term precautionary principle as a cudgel and um for almost everything and it can be it can

[2:43:00] Voice 15: be and so having a definition as to how it it meant uh is it would be very helpful if we're

[2:43:07] Voice 15: going to incorporate it in a broad way i'm very actually quite i don't know what nervous is the

[2:43:12] Voice 15: right word but um uh cautious about it becoming a directive policy to include that in addition

[2:43:19] Voice 15: to all the other policies we have because it has such a wide meaning to so many people

[2:43:24] Voice 15: you can make an argument about a precautionary principle about almost anything um

[2:43:30] Voice 15: So, so I think we need to be really careful in defining what it means. So those are what I wanted to say.

[2:43:37] Trustee Morrison: All right. So, and I think that all of the conversation we've had so far basically helps us get to some more detail on that for the next term to consider, because we've talked about pulling in the implementation policies.

[2:43:52] Trustee Morrison: we've talked about um you know offering some suggestions specifically that the next council

[2:43:57] Trustee Morrison: could address precautionary principle or not we're not saying you know include it we're saying what

[2:44:02] Trustee Morrison: would the suggestions be for including it um so um and that would hopefully help flag so maybe

[2:44:08] Trustee Morrison: the direction delaney would just be as with that precautionary principle just to like flag those

[2:44:13] Trustee Morrison: concerns like that you know how much is too much breadth how much is like narrow enough for the

[2:44:20] Trustee Morrison: the actual consistent and fair implementation of that type of language. All right.

[2:44:31] Trustee Morrison: And also thanks for naming the implementation policies again, because I, that 1.6, I saw it

[2:44:38] Trustee Morrison: when we were talking about that. And then like when we get down into this kind of discussion,

[2:44:42] Trustee Morrison: it's important for us to remember that those implementation policies are out there and not

[2:44:47] Trustee Morrison: very well understood. I've read through them and like had a close look at them and they're worth

[2:44:52] Trustee Morrison: things that i was like wow this needs to be more in the main sort of public think of like how because

[2:44:57] Trustee Morrison: those are the questions we get asked like well how are these really reinforced how are they being

[2:45:01] Trustee Morrison: implemented so putting them into the actual policy statement might help resolve some of those

[2:45:05] Trustee Morrison: questions we're getting in community all right anything else on part two two okay first five

[2:45:19] Trustee Morrison: minute break everybody get up and move around a cup of coffee uh sorry fed um i think that's

[2:45:26] Trustee Morrison: Doug is that Doug Fenton Doug did you have a thing you wanted to add nope okay so I'm going

[2:45:40] Trustee Morrison: to go ahead and take a five minute break actually it's going to be more like a seven minute break

[2:45:44] Trustee Morrison: um we'll come back at one at what is it sorry I'm 155 I'm in a different time zone uh what is that

[2:45:52] Trustee Morrison: 11 55 yes okay so um I do also want to acknowledge that we may need lunch so

[2:46:01] Trustee Morrison: So we're getting pretty close to being done.

[2:46:03] Trustee Morrison: So maybe if I can just ask before we take a break at this moment,

[2:46:07] Trustee Morrison: can we take maybe a 15-minute break and then come back?

[2:46:12] Trustee Morrison: Or do people want to just take a quick five-minute break

[2:46:15] Trustee Morrison: and then try to finish this out?

[2:46:17] Trustee Morrison: We're probably another half an hour.

[2:46:19] Trustee Morrison: So five-minute break?

[2:46:21] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[2:46:21] Trustee Morrison: So let's take a five-minute break.

[2:46:24] Trustee Morrison: Come back at 11.55, all right?

[2:46:28] Trustee Morrison: And then we'll go from there.

[2:52:40] Voice 3: All right.

[2:52:41] Voice 3: so

[2:52:43] Trustee Morrison: if folks can indicate that they're here again that would be helpful if I could have a raised

[2:52:49] Trustee Morrison: hand to indicate you're present that would be super helpful not a like physical and waving

[2:52:55] Trustee Morrison: at me but like a digital one that'd be super helpful so just keep your hands up because

[2:53:06] Trustee Morrison: then I can't do a count hands

[2:53:13] Voice 3: up if you're here okay

[2:53:21] Trustee Morrison: we are quorum all right go ahead and put

[2:53:23] Trustee Morrison: your hands down all right so we are on part three page uh 25 i think it is yeah 25 part three on the

[2:53:43] Trustee Morrison: development of additional content are there is there delaney do you want to take just a couple

[2:53:48] Trustee Morrison: minutes and walk us through these and then we can um name if there's any concerns sure

[2:53:54] Voice 16: um so as i

[2:53:56] Voice 16: mentioned, this is largely responding to feedback from First Nations on some further refinements to

[2:54:04] Voice 16: the policy statement that they would like to see. So in 3.1, provide more explanatory context on

[2:54:11] Voice 16: First Nations rights and responsibilities and implications of the Declaration on the Rights

[2:54:18] Voice 16: of Indigenous Peoples Act, DRIPA. And here's where we thought to include some corresponding

[2:54:25] Voice 16: running recommended policies as I discussed earlier

[2:54:28] Voice 16: to guide First Nations engagement and reconciliation work

[2:54:32] Voice 16: at the local level and at the trust level as well.

[2:54:36] Voice 16: 3.2 is adding greater detail

[2:54:39] Voice 16: on First Nations co-governance interests

[2:54:41] Voice 16: and the need for collaborative frameworks to work together

[2:54:45] Voice 16: at all stages of policy development and implementations.

[2:54:48] Voice 16: This has been a big theme of feedback

[2:54:51] Voice 16: and as you can see from the correspondence

[2:54:53] Voice 16: in today's package from WSAH leadership council there is a need for more kind of formalized

[2:55:00] Voice 16: collaborative or protocol agreements to further this work on an ongoing basis

[2:55:08] Voice 16: 3.3 strengthen policy language around first nation's constitutional rights to access

[2:55:14] Voice 16: culturally significant areas and healthy ecosystems for their cultural spiritual and

[2:55:18] Voice 16: economic uses. This is also aligned with DRIFA. 3.4, strengthen policy language around the

[2:55:26] Voice 16: preservation and protection of the coastal marine environment to support First Nations food security

[2:55:31] Voice 16: in Indigenous marine harvesting areas. And 3.5, strengthen policy language around engaging with

[2:55:37] Voice 16: First Nations and cultural monitors to better protect known and unknown cultural heritage sites

[2:55:43] Voice 16: through clearly defined collaborative frameworks. And what I would say is like we're going to try

[2:55:47] Voice 16: to find the right tone for the policy statement that keeps these policies at the general level.

[2:55:53] Voice 16: A lot of this work will happen more through probably strategic plan projects or

[2:56:00] Voice 16: our ongoing reconciliation work at the Trust Council and local levels, but we will try to

[2:56:07] Voice 16: implement some sort of overarching guidance that's appropriate to the policy statement

[2:56:11] Voice 16: on these topics. I'm happy to answer any questions or entertain amendments to this section.

[2:56:21] Trustee Morrison: So I have one clarification on 3.1. So more explanatory context, would that be in the sort

[2:56:28] Trustee Morrison: of guidance, like adjacent document, or would it be in a preamble, or like what is the idea there?

[2:56:37] Trustee Morrison: Yeah,

[2:56:38] Voice 16: I think that's yet a little bit to be determined when once we get the new draft going and I am imagining that a lot of it will be in the companion handbook, but we want to have enough in the policy statement that it's, you know, embedded there.

[2:56:56] Voice 16: there. I think that's what the nations would like, that it's really embedded. So we'll just strike,

[2:57:01] Voice 16: that's what I meant about kind of striking the right tone for the policy statement, and then

[2:57:07] Voice 16: perhaps any additional preamble or explanation can be in the companion handbook.

[2:57:14] Voice 16: Thank you. Dan?

[2:57:18] Voice 15: Thanks. What was noticeable about the Wasanich and other correspondences, the degree to which

[2:57:26] Voice 15: which they indicate, I'm talking about 3.2 now, is the degree to which they continue,

[2:57:32] Voice 15: we're hearing increasingly that they want to be involved in decision making. And I think that's

[2:57:41] Voice 15: really important. And I think it's really important to be in our trust policy. So I'm

[2:57:44] Voice 15: happy to see 3.2. And I wonder about whether it should not only read to work together at all

[2:57:51] Voice 15: stages of policy development implementation but indeed on all this in all decision-making

[2:57:57] Voice 15: local trust committees because it's not just when we are setting policy or even bylaws but when

[2:58:05] Voice 15: we're making important decisions around dps or develop or dvps or or temporary use permits etc

[2:58:13] Voice 15: et cetera, there's often fields like we don't have the policy or the structure to make sure

[2:58:21] Voice 15: we're doing proper engagement on those things and maybe the capacity.

[2:58:24] Voice 15: So and I don't know whether others think that we should be putting this is where it belongs

[2:58:30] Voice 15: in the trust policy statement or if it should be in another kind of a policy and implementation

[2:58:35] Voice 15: process.

[2:58:36] Voice 15: But it strikes me I wouldn't mind seeing some greater detail on how to do it at all stages

[2:58:42] Voice 15: stages of policy development implementation and decision making um I don't I as I said I don't

[2:58:49] Voice 15: know whether others agree with that or not or if that's too if this isn't the right place for that

[2:58:56] Trustee Morrison: trustee right well

[2:59:00] Voice 23: I uh I wholeheartedly agree with trustee Rogers on that point I I think that

[2:59:06] Voice 23: is uh an absolute must I think if we're talking about reconciliation I think we all agree that

[2:59:12] Voice 23: that reconciliation means sharing a political power

[2:59:15] Voice 23: and we have to get them involved in our decision-making

[2:59:19] Voice 23: soon as we possibly can.

[2:59:21] Voice 23: In my discussions with some elders

[2:59:25] Voice 23: and members of the Osanage people,

[2:59:27] Voice 23: they have stated that they are so busy politically

[2:59:32] Voice 23: that they're having difficulty getting involved

[2:59:34] Voice 23: and finding the time to get involved,

[2:59:36] Voice 23: but on a community level,

[2:59:37] Voice 23: they are 100% whole and committed.

[2:59:40] Voice 23: And the more we can get them involved in community and our political decisions, the better off and the further we're going to get in a much faster timeline.

[2:59:55] Voice 23: So I'm not sure if it belongs here, but certainly.

[3:00:00] Voice 23: some commitment from Trust Council to make that happen. I fully agree. Thanks for raising that.

[3:00:08] Trustee Morrison: Do we need a particular motion to gel that, Donnie?

[3:00:11] Voice 16: Yeah, I think what you could suggest is

[3:00:14] Voice 16: adding at the end of 3.2 the words and all decision making.

[3:00:19] Voice 15: I was going to suggest that

[3:00:20] Voice 15: three, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Ms. Mayor, can I make a motion?

[3:00:24] Voice 4: Yeah, go ahead.

[3:00:25] Voice 15: Okay, I move that 3.2 be

[3:00:27] Voice 15: amended um by by uh adding the words and um all decision making okay

[3:00:39] Voice 3: can we see that motion up on

[3:00:40] Voice 3: the screen and

[3:00:58] Trustee Morrison: 3.2 of the um rfp for the trust policy statement and then 3.2 of the trust by

[3:01:25] Trustee Morrison: by adding the words and all decision making um at the end yeah i think that

[3:01:37] Trustee Morrison: by amending 3.2 yeah at

[3:01:40] Trustee Morrison: the end yeah i think that works is that okay dan okay so i got a

[3:01:48] Trustee Morrison: nod from dan on that um yes

[3:01:50] Voice 4: oh

[3:01:52] Trustee Morrison: that's okay um delaney does that work yeah okay can i get a

[3:01:57] Trustee Morrison: seconder on that is that Steve okay I'm gonna take Steve is seconding that is there any um comments

[3:02:06] Trustee Morrison: or or questions or thoughts on this motion uh Trustee Critchley yes

[3:02:15] Trustee Critchley: thank you uh I'm just

[3:02:17] Trustee Critchley: concerned about the broadening of that to this degree um I don't know if it's workable in the

[3:02:27] Trustee Critchley: the current context. I mean, I really don't see at present time a clear mechanism by which we are

[3:02:40] Trustee Critchley: or would be sharing decision-making, generally speaking. So I'm concerned about broadening this

[3:02:50] Trustee Critchley: to that degree at this early stage without really thinking a lot or having a lot of ideas exchanged

[3:02:58] Trustee Critchley: changed about how this could possibly work. And I'm looking at both from my side of the table,

[3:03:08] Trustee Critchley: if you like, and also from what I'm hearing mentioned in this meeting, and also what I've

[3:03:15] Trustee Critchley: heard from local First Nations, that they are stretched to the limits on capacity, and, you

[3:03:22] Trustee Critchley: know, really don't have the ability to engage on what would be subsidiary issues for them at the

[3:03:29] Trustee Critchley: the present time as they try to figure out their their treaties and and get their economic base

[3:03:37] Trustee Critchley: going anyway I think I'm going to vote against the amendment thank you

[3:03:44] Trustee Morrison: thank you any other

[3:03:47] Trustee Morrison: comments or thoughts on this trustee McConkie yeah just a

[3:03:57] Trustee McConchie: question wouldn't this shouldn't

[3:03:59] Trustee McConchie: this but wouldn't this be a requirement to change that I don't just act if we're if we're changing

[3:04:03] Trustee McConchie: changing like wouldn't we need to create a whole new council and government structure in order to

[3:04:07] Trustee McConchie: actually properly implement this or is this strictly aspirational i guess is what chrishley's

[3:04:12] Trustee McConchie: trust trustee chrishley is asking right claire

[3:04:18] Voice 17: um so i can speak to this a little bit so right now

[3:04:22] Voice 17: what you're asking staff to do is prepare recommendations to council for language that

[3:04:27] Voice 17: would be included in the next draft which will still be a draft um right now it reads add greater

[3:04:32] Voice 17: detail of First Nations co-governance interests and the need for collaborative frameworks to

[3:04:38] Voice 17: work together at all stages of policy development and implementation and decision making. So it

[3:04:43] Voice 17: would simply be an expression of Trust Council's perception that there's a need to move in this

[3:04:48] Voice 17: direction. That's what this would achieve right now. We would then draft language and there would

[3:04:53] Voice 17: be an opportunity for this committee, executive committee and council to reflect on, you know,

[3:04:58] Voice 17: have staff correctly express that need, which would then become perhaps, you know, a council

[3:05:02] Voice 17: advocacy position next term, you know, depending on the recommendations of the governance committee

[3:05:07] Voice 17: to move towards, you know, recommended legislative changes. But at this point, it would be somewhat

[3:05:12] Voice 17: aspirational in the expression of your perception of the need.

[3:05:17] Trustee Morrison: And just as a speaker on the topic,

[3:05:20] Trustee Morrison: I would say that I would prefer to have it more expansive from that perspective of an expression

[3:05:27] Trustee Morrison: of the desire of council toward reconciliation understanding that the pathway to this type of

[3:05:35] Trustee Morrison: work is a long pathway and it involves a lot of coordination with different levels of first

[3:05:40] Trustee Morrison: nations governments with other government levels um and so but stating it i think brings us more

[3:05:48] Trustee Morrison: into line with the full extent of reconciliation that we've already named um and and as we

[3:05:58] Trustee Morrison: talk about this i think really focusing our conversation on what we think inside the trust

[3:06:07] Trustee Morrison: policy statement and trying not to put any um sort of not to speak for first nations i guess

[3:06:12] Trustee Morrison: is my cautionary note as we talk about this so uh case yeah

[3:06:17] Voice 21: i was just gonna say i'm okay with

[3:06:19] Voice 21: this motion because it'll first nations themselves will sort of set up parameters as well to the

[3:06:24] Voice 21: agreed they want to be involved and this is really just looking at some potential options so i'm okay

[3:06:31] Voice 21: with the broadness of it at this point in time all

[3:06:35] Trustee Morrison: right so if i can i'd like to call the vote

[3:06:38] Trustee Morrison: on this motion um if i can have digital hands for all those in favor okay hands down all those

[3:06:59] Trustee Morrison: trustee peterson fine thank you and all those opposed okay hands down that motion carries

[3:07:08] Trustee Morrison: all right um thank you very much okay anything else in that section on additional content that

[3:07:24] Trustee Morrison: would need to be addressed uh claire

[3:07:29] Voice 17: i'm just going to note for the committee that staff um

[3:07:32] Voice 17: would like to talk with executive committee at their meeting in september about a potential

[3:07:36] Voice 17: budget adjustment to get some more capacity funding for this project in this fiscal year

[3:07:40] Voice 17: to continue to work with nations on redrafting um particularly around these policies the whole

[3:07:46] Voice 17: document, but particularly around this section. So that's something that we can talk about later

[3:07:50] Voice 17: on the agenda. I just wanted to flag it here as we're lingering on this topic. Thank you.

[3:07:55] Trustee Morrison: Thank you. All right. Let's move into part four, coordination with referral agency partners.

[3:08:02] Trustee Morrison: I really, really want us to try and embody the language of coordination as opposed to advocacy.

[3:08:09] Trustee Morrison: There's just some slight differences in the tone of it because we're not trying to

[3:08:16] Trustee Morrison: get other governments to do something different. We're trying to get them to own up to their own

[3:08:21] Trustee Morrison: responsibilities and coordinate with us on action. So the language here, coordination

[3:08:29] Trustee Morrison: instead of advocacy, is really the language in the act. It's going back to that language in the act.

[3:08:37] Trustee Morrison: All right. So anything inside part four that folks would like to comment on, talk about,

[3:08:44] Trustee Morrison: all make sure that it should be there or shouldn't be there. All right. Bye, Trustee Langerhuis.

[3:08:56] Trustee Morrison: Thank you for being here this morning. All right. Can I just check quorum again? I have

[3:09:06] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Fenton. It's six, right?

[3:09:15] Voice 20: Chair, to answer that question, you would need seven

[3:09:20] Voice 20: individuals to reach quorum.

[3:09:22] Trustee Morrison: Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure I knew the number. So

[3:09:25] Trustee Morrison: So I currently have McConaughey, Critchley, Wright, Coburn, Rogers, Peterson, Morson,

[3:09:33] Trustee Morrison: and Fenton.

[3:09:34] Trustee Morrison: So we're at eight.

[3:09:36] Trustee Morrison: So we're good.

[3:09:36] Trustee Morrison: Thank you.

[3:09:40] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[3:09:42] Trustee Morrison: Thank you all for sticking through a longer conversation.

[3:09:44] Trustee Morrison: This is the culmination of a lot of thinking.

[3:09:47] Trustee Morrison: So thank you for that.

[3:09:47] Trustee Morrison: All right.

[3:09:49] Trustee Morrison: I know schedules are tricky with folks.

[3:09:52] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[3:09:53] Trustee Morrison: So part four, coordination with referral agency partners.

[3:09:55] Trustee Morrison: partners any comments or thoughts in there oh

[3:10:14] Voice 3: do we have a section

[3:10:15] Trustee Morrison: that we are good with okay

[3:10:19] Trustee Morrison: I'm going to keep us moving part five I'm going to go to part five so I'm at the bottom of page 26

[3:10:26] Trustee Morrison: engagement reviews and next steps okay and this is Claire to your point 5.4 also comes into

[3:10:49] Trustee Morrison: um bear the idea that um sorry Delaney did you want to say anything to any of these I think

[3:10:57] Trustee Morrison: they're most of them were relatively self-explanatory in these sections

[3:11:02] Voice 16: yeah i'll just answer questions if anyone has i think they they're reflective of your discussion

[3:11:07] Voice 16: on july 8th and just um um charting you know the steps forward to prepare the next chance council

[3:11:15] Voice 16: for success all

[3:11:17] Trustee Morrison: right uh trustee rogers and then trustee wright sorry

[3:11:24] Voice 15: i was having some trouble

[3:11:26] Voice 15: um just want to be clear i understood what it means by in early 2023 that would be that would

[3:11:33] Voice 15: be march right the march trust council is that what is that is that what you're aiming that's

[3:11:38] Voice 15: what that means

[3:11:38] Voice 16: it's hard for us right now to pinpoint a specific trust council because it's

[3:11:44] Voice 16: going to depend a little bit about on the new trust council and what if they might have different

[3:11:49] Voice 16: direction for us right

[3:11:50] Voice 15: i suppose they could they put a new another a special meeting and if that

[3:11:54] Voice 15: they want yeah

[3:11:55] Voice 16: and also like it's unclear um you know whether like whether tpc would want to review

[3:12:02] Voice 16: it first like those kinds of procedural steps where we haven't yet defined but yeah so we just

[3:12:08] Voice 16: left it a little bit vague but obviously as early as um possible in accordance with the desires of

[3:12:15] Voice 16: the next stress council right but

[3:12:16] Voice 15: not november or the training session in december no

[3:12:20] Voice 16: right

[3:12:21] Voice 15: thank

[3:12:22] Voice 15: Thank you.

[3:12:23] Trustee Morrison: To that point though, Delaney,

[3:12:25] Trustee Morrison: there's budget implications.

[3:12:27] Trustee Morrison: So would the budget cases come forward earlier?

[3:12:31] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, so Claire, do you wanna speak to the budget pieces?

[3:12:34] Voice 17: So yes, and I was, we could talk,

[3:12:37] Voice 17: or Chair, we could talk about this

[3:12:38] Voice 17: when we get to budget section,

[3:12:40] Voice 17: but our intention is to bring a business case

[3:12:42] Voice 17: with options for the policy statement to executive committee

[3:12:47] Voice 17: for their early October meeting,

[3:12:48] Voice 17: which gives us more runway to prepare that

[3:12:50] Voice 17: and do some of the background estimates um but uh yes so that would we would have to prepare a

[3:12:56] Voice 17: business case with options for the budget ahead of the development of the project charter um so yeah

[3:13:02] Voice 17: it's a little bit less than desirable but it's where we're at right now

[3:13:04] Voice 16: and and there's also um

[3:13:07] Voice 16: additional funding for this fiscal year did you want to speak to that so

[3:13:13] Voice 17: i just spoke to that

[3:13:14] Voice 17: earlier um i'm thinking about we have a number of potential budget adjustments that would be

[3:13:18] Voice 17: recommended to executive committee in early september so we as staff are thinking about

[3:13:23] Voice 17: recommending up to 30 000 for continuation of capacity funding with nations um and potential

[3:13:28] Voice 17: some more legal review i that number may be refined over the next uh little while as we look

[3:13:34] Voice 17: at what's remaining in the budget but um so both this fiscal and this fiscal we're intending for

[3:13:38] Voice 17: budget requests okay

[3:13:41] Trustee Morrison: thank you uh trustee right and then trustee fenton uh

[3:13:47] Voice 23: yeah when we're talking

[3:13:50] Voice 23: about engagement we're talking about the public and I understand there's no legislative or

[3:13:58] Voice 23: compulsory legislation that compels us to carry out public engagement other than a public hearing

[3:14:09] Voice 23: and as we've noted from the policy statement so far there has been a lot of negative

[3:14:16] Voice 23: of input from the public and a lot of disenfranchisement a little disagreement and

[3:14:22] Voice 23: some dissatisfaction with the honest trust in general and I'm I'm just wondering how how much

[3:14:29] Voice 23: we are going to how much the honest trust is going to rely on on on the public to determine

[3:14:40] Voice 23: the policies in the direction the honest is going to take and I think this is going to play

[3:14:44] Voice 23: probably a little more uh heavily uh during this election than previous elections there is a uh

[3:14:52] Voice 23: certainly in the southern gulf islands there is a large uh movement um to uh dissolve the

[3:15:01] Voice 23: trust if if if that comes about um and certainly an unhappiness with being told uh what to do on

[3:15:10] Voice 23: on their properties with either mistaken notions

[3:15:14] Voice 23: of private property rights, et cetera, et cetera,

[3:15:17] Voice 23: and constitutional things which are not applicable

[3:15:21] Voice 23: in this country.

[3:15:22] Voice 23: But I'm just wondering how much emphasis the Honest Trust

[3:15:27] Voice 23: and Council should be taking with the responses

[3:15:31] Voice 23: that we get from the public,

[3:15:33] Voice 23: particularly when they are extremely negative

[3:15:35] Voice 23: and not supporting or advancing the mandate

[3:15:40] Voice 23: as we would like them to be.

[3:15:43] Voice 23: Going to be big on this island, I can tell you.

[3:15:48] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, so one quick correction there.

[3:15:51] Trustee Morrison: I don't think that we even have to have a public hearing, do we?

[3:15:54] Trustee Morrison: No.

[3:15:55] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[3:15:56] Trustee Morrison: The

[3:15:56] Voice 17: act doesn't require anything.

[3:15:58] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, so for this, we actually,

[3:16:02] Trustee Morrison: and it is something to consider going forward

[3:16:05] Trustee Morrison: in this last phase of the effort,

[3:16:07] Trustee Morrison: is um you know the election being in the middle of this process now essentially is public opinion

[3:16:15] Trustee Morrison: weighing in on um the trust policy statement at this point especially down here um and so

[3:16:22] Trustee Morrison: i think that the council one of the things that we should ask the council to do and i don't know

[3:16:27] Trustee Morrison: if this is needs to be in the recommendation or not but we should actually have a conversation

[3:16:32] Trustee Morrison: of what the public engagement strategy looks like because the public engagement strategy may not be

[3:16:39] Trustee Morrison: the kind of engagement we've had to date it may be trustees like just just the component of training

[3:16:45] Trustee Morrison: trustees to have conversations with their communities and that's it because that we're at

[3:16:51] Trustee Morrison: we're at a pretty late stage this has been like three or four years of work on this at this point

[3:16:56] Trustee Morrison: it's more about a communication pathway related to what is currently in it um trustee fenton

[3:17:10] Voice 24: hi thank you um actually back to um 4.4 if i could just um regarding the actually

[3:17:20] Trustee Morrison: if i can stop you

[3:17:21] Trustee Morrison: on the 4.4 we'll come back to that let's finish our conversation on five and then i'll loop back

[3:17:25] Trustee Morrison: to you for the four yeah

[3:17:27] Voice 24: thank you

[3:17:28] Trustee Morrison: okay um trustee colburn oh sorry trustee coburn no okay okay go

[3:17:44] Voice 22: ahead

[3:17:44] Trustee Morrison: yeah uh

[3:17:45] Voice 22: it would be beneficial for trust council to get some uh community engagement and

[3:17:50] Voice 22: consultation training yeah it's important to distinguish between your email inbox and actual

[3:17:56] Voice 22: data and responses and you're not disenfranchising voices and making broad generalizations

[3:18:04] Voice 22: I find some of the rationale for decision-making to be based on, not on the data, but on broad

[3:18:13] Voice 22: characterization. So I would like to see something in here regarding some up-to-date training for new

[3:18:20] Voice 22: trustees to understand the engagement and the difference between engagement, complication,

[3:18:24] Voice 22: all those pieces, so that they start off from a common ground as opposed to just trust counsel.

[3:18:30] Trustee Morrison: yeah so that's what I'm understanding 5.2 to be and maybe Delaney and Claire do you need more

[3:18:37] Trustee Morrison: clarity to make 5.2 that because it felt like that was expert advice and training for the incoming

[3:18:42] Trustee Morrison: trust council on the theme of public engagement I

[3:18:47] Voice 17: can just say I felt that was sufficient we do

[3:18:49] Voice 17: have existing direction from council as well to undertake training around engagement and and

[3:18:54] Voice 17: simply lack of capacity we haven't been able to procure that for council yet but it's my

[3:18:59] Voice 17: expectation this will be a dominant theme as we head into the new term in terms of trustee

[3:19:04] Voice 17: education and discussion around how the trust undertakes engagement both from a effectiveness

[3:19:09] Voice 17: point of view and an efficiency point of view across the organization yeah

[3:19:14] Voice 16: and following that

[3:19:15] Voice 16: I think as part of 5.4 with the new project charter we'd also prepare sort of options

[3:19:23] Voice 16: various levels of options for possible engagement for the next trust council to determine because

[3:19:29] Voice 16: the new draft won't be ready until 2023 anyway so it will have some time to consider its options

[3:19:37] Trustee Morrison: okay i'm going to so trustee colburn does that do you think there's anything that needs to be

[3:19:43] Trustee Morrison: added to 5.2 to

[3:19:45] Voice 3: strengthen what your point is sorry i don't hear you if you're speaking

[3:20:10] Voice 3: trustee colburn

[3:20:11] Trustee Morrison: sorry i i'm just trying to check if 5.2 covers what you're

[3:20:14] Trustee Morrison: um mentioning or if it needs an addition issues

[3:20:22] Voice 22: with with my microphone can you hear me

[3:20:24] Trustee Morrison: now yeah

[3:20:25] Trustee Morrison: we can hear you now okay

[3:20:26] Voice 22: i i believe that does cover it i i would just make there is a distinction

[3:20:30] Voice 22: between engagement and consultation um just i just that's the point i want to make is to make

[3:20:34] Voice 22: sure that you're covering that off and that it happens early in the term yeah

[3:20:38] Trustee Morrison: i

[3:20:40] Voice 22: i hear staff

[3:20:41] Voice 22: saying that that is the intent but i want to make sure that that that's part of this so

[3:20:46] Trustee Morrison: do we want

[3:20:46] Trustee Morrison: to actually modify that um so that it says that so the modification would be on the theme of public

[3:20:55] Trustee Morrison: engagement and consultation so to add and consultation after engagement and then

[3:21:02] Trustee Morrison: at the very end a comma early in the term sorry yes

[3:21:09] Voice 22: thank you i i would support that

[3:21:11] Trustee Morrison: okay so can

[3:21:13] Trustee Morrison: Can we get a draft motion for that, Robert?

[3:21:17] Trustee Morrison: So it would be something like,

[3:21:20] Trustee Morrison: you need to see the other draft motions,

[3:21:22] Trustee Morrison: but basically to alter the RFP to edit 5.2

[3:21:30] Trustee Morrison: to include the and consultation after the word engagement,

[3:22:17] Trustee Morrison: include consultation after the word engagement

[3:22:21] Trustee Morrison: and at the end of the sentence to add um early in the term okay so just sentence instead of sent

[3:22:42] Trustee Morrison: and then okay so trustee colburn does that work for you yes

[3:22:50] Voice 22: and i'll second that motion thank you

[3:22:51] Voice 22: i

[3:22:52] Trustee Morrison: can't make it so if somebody else can make it

[3:22:54] Voice 22: i'll move motion as presented okay and can

[3:22:57] Trustee Morrison: somebody else second that all right lots of hands up somebody just wave at me all right steve's the

[3:23:06] Trustee Morrison: waiver okay so seconded by trustee wright okay any comment on this motion trustee fenton do you have

[3:23:17] Trustee Morrison: a comment on this motion no

[3:23:23] Voice 24: okay

[3:23:24] Trustee Morrison: okay okay so if i can have all hands down for a second

[3:23:31] Trustee Morrison: all right so the motion is that the trust programs committee amend the trust policy statement rfd

[3:23:37] Trustee Morrison: to edit 5.2 to include and consultation after the word engagement and at the end of the sentence

[3:23:42] Trustee Morrison: to add early in the term all right i'm going to call the vote on that all those in favor

[3:23:48] Trustee Morrison: hands up please okay we're good hands down please that carries all right um so there was a was there

[3:24:03] Trustee Morrison: any other discussion on part five before we go back to part four for a second so ben i just want

[3:24:12] Trustee McConchie: want to make sure that we this that communications is addressed appropriately and just double

[3:24:17] Trustee McConchie: checking uh because i think one of the main reasons the two main reasons why the policy

[3:24:21] Trustee McConchie: statement and during this kind of lost course uh and was delayed was because of the pandemic

[3:24:27] Trustee McConchie: and also just due to our communication strategy which i think requires tremendous uh improvement

[3:24:34] Trustee McConchie: and i think staff have been begging for it privately with me uh and that's where we lost

[3:24:39] Trustee McConchie: the debate um we were out communicated so i'm wondering if part five uh properly addresses

[3:24:45] Trustee McConchie: those concerns delaney

[3:24:51] Trustee Morrison: or claire do you want to uh

[3:24:55] Voice 16: you could add in um a new um resolution that

[3:24:59] Voice 16: trust council requests staff to prepare a communication strategy for the consideration of

[3:25:05] Voice 16: like similar to 5.4 you could add that in well

[3:25:10] Trustee McConchie: can i move that exactly what you just said delaney

[3:25:12] Trustee McConchie: that trust council uh or sorry that uh trust program council uh developed to work with staff

[3:25:18] Trustee McConchie: to develop a communication strategy uh during the engagement process of policy statement sure

[3:25:29] Trustee Morrison: and that motion will sound that that'll be the additional text that we're adding so the motion

[3:25:35] Trustee Morrison: will be um that um trust programs committee direct staff to amend the rfd to include 5.5

[3:25:47] Trustee Morrison: and then like literally like bracket or parentheses 5.5 and then the text for 5.5

[3:25:56] Trustee Morrison: not to amend to include yeah and then uh uh and then everything from there on is in quotes

[3:26:07] Trustee Morrison: 5.5 sorry robert i can put this in the text in the chat too because it's a little bit complicated

[3:26:22] Trustee Morrison: um so the trust programs committee requests staff to amend the rfd to include quote 5.5

[3:26:35] Trustee Morrison: that trust council requests staff to yeah that to prepare a communication strategy

[3:26:49] Trustee Morrison: strategy and then what's the end part uh delaney uh

[3:26:52] Voice 16: for the consideration of the incoming executive

[3:26:55] Voice 16: committee and trust council in early 2023 that's

[3:26:59] Trustee Morrison: perfect thank you and that would be end quote at

[3:27:02] Trustee Morrison: the end of that

[3:27:05] Voice 3: ec and

[3:27:13] Voice 17: my chair i would suggest um just for the clarity of this resolution standing

[3:27:16] Voice 17: alone it could be a policy statement amendment project communication strategies i don't know

[3:27:20] Voice 17: oh yes sorry yeah

[3:27:23] Voice 3: so a policy statement amendment

[3:27:31] Voice 3: okay ben does that look right to you yes thank you

[3:27:48] Trustee Morrison: okay i

[3:27:49] Voice 6: move i so move

[3:27:50] Voice 6: thank

[3:27:51] Trustee Morrison: you any seconder on that i have trustee peterson seconding it okay all right any comment

[3:27:59] Trustee Morrison: on this?

[3:28:02] Trustee McConchie: Just very briefly, just as the mover, I've spoken to staff about this and they've got

[3:28:07] Trustee McConchie: great ideas and I'm really excited to hear what they have to say to the upcoming trustees. Thank

[3:28:12] Trustee McConchie: you.

[3:28:14] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Peterson, did you want to say anything?

[3:28:17] Voice 12: Yeah, thank you. I think it's important

[3:28:21] Voice 12: to find a way to emphasize to trust council that we need to adequately fund our communication

[3:28:29] Voice 12: communication strategy as well and

[3:28:32] Trustee Morrison: we'll talk about that in the budget briefing too I think

[3:28:35] Trustee Morrison: that will probably come up okay I'm going to go ahead and call the vote on this motion all those

[3:28:41] Trustee Morrison: in favor okay hands down and that carries all right so anything else in part five trustee

[3:28:59] Trustee Morrison: Rogers did you ever I know you're taking off here okay your hands are still up there we go

[3:29:04] Trustee Morrison: um okay i know we needed to pop back over to part four for a second um trustee fenton did you have

[3:29:11] Trustee Morrison: something you needed to address in part four yes

[3:29:16] Voice 24: please uh thanks uh 4.4 just getting clarification

[3:29:19] Voice 24: on this is address improvement district recommendations around water um is that

[3:29:27] Voice 24: would that include the province whatever sort of this what's the umbrella of consultation there um

[3:29:37] Trustee Morrison: sorry i'm not i'm sure if i understand your question okay

[3:29:41] Voice 24: 4.4 to find what is

[3:29:45] Voice 24: or address improvement just your recommendations what is

[3:29:50] Voice 24: what are we who is that is that at the province is there a body our district would not offer

[3:30:00] Voice 23: as much um

[3:30:01] Trustee Morrison: usually

[3:30:02] Voice 23: regional districts i believe chair um can we include

[3:30:07] Voice 24: the problem

[3:30:08] Trustee Morrison: yeah so

[3:30:09] Trustee Morrison: yeah

[3:30:10] Voice 24: so

[3:30:12] Trustee Morrison: let's pause for just one second delaney do you have more information on that one

[3:30:15] Trustee Morrison: yeah so

[3:30:16] Voice 16: in so last july uh no two julys in july 2021 we referred the draft bylaw to a number of

[3:30:25] Voice 16: different agencies including improvement districts in across the trust area um and some of them sent

[3:30:32] Voice 16: back feedback those have all but all those responses have been posted to the island's 2050

[3:30:37] Voice 16: project library folders on the website yeah um and so what we would be what this is saying is

[3:30:44] Voice 16: we're looking at their recommendations around these topics and attempting to address them

[3:30:49] Voice 16: in the amendment process as appropriate does that answer your question yeah

[3:30:58] Voice 24: or that's clarity

[3:30:59] Voice 24: to it yes thank you um just wondering if it's a there that's a good feedback but does it give us

[3:31:07] Voice 24: the feedback we might need in respect to the actual subject matter which is water management

[3:31:13] Voice 24: should that be any prevent open to the province or to the provincial bodies or well

[3:31:21] Trustee Morrison: all of our

[3:31:22] Trustee Morrison: okay

[3:31:22] Voice 24: go

[3:31:26] Trustee Morrison: ahead jelani yeah

[3:31:27] Voice 16: so all of our draft policies pertain to um you know the work of the

[3:31:31] Voice 16: the trust. And so where we would certainly look to our senior freshwater specialist for advice

[3:31:38] Voice 16: and where needed, we could reach out to provincial colleagues as well. But I'm imagining that this

[3:31:44] Voice 16: will be quite straightforward in terms of the specific policies that we could include in the

[3:31:48] Voice 16: policy statement. We're not looking at sort of a broad intergovernmental strategy around these

[3:31:54] Voice 16: things inside the policy statement. It's more things that fall within our jurisdiction.

[3:31:58] Voice 16: restriction.

[3:32:00] Trustee Morrison: And so this, to my understanding, this is not saying that we wouldn't normally

[3:32:04] Trustee Morrison: do all the things we would do, like referring out to all the different agencies and getting

[3:32:08] Trustee Morrison: feedback on things as we get the next draft sort of refined. What it's saying is that we already

[3:32:14] Trustee Morrison: did get feedback from improving districts and we need to incorporate that feedback into the next

[3:32:19] Trustee Morrison: round of edit.

[3:32:20] Voice 16: Yeah, basically this, yeah, this, yes. Okay. That clarifies it. This series of

[3:32:25] Voice 16: resolutions is just an intermediary step because you're basically directing staff to spend our time

[3:32:31] Voice 16: working with these colleagues um at these other agencies um but then after first reading um trust

[3:32:39] Voice 16: council can decide who the the document needs to be referred out to again more formal it's not

[3:32:46] Voice 24: restricted it's just it's just actually completing a task it's outstanding

[3:32:50] Voice 3: exactly that's right yeah

[3:32:52] Voice 3: That's right. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you.

[3:32:56] Trustee Morrison: Okay, I'm going to move us along because I really

[3:32:58] Trustee Morrison: don't want to lose quorum and not be able to forward this entire packet that we just spent

[3:33:03] Trustee Morrison: a huge amount of time talking through. So you

[3:33:14] Trustee McConchie: just muted yourself, Chair Morrison, you're muted

[3:33:16] Trustee McConchie: yourself.

[3:33:17] Trustee Morrison: It's nice that I did that and then started talking. That's awesome. Thank you.

[3:33:21] Trustee Morrison: I was very intentional about that, too. Okay, so at this point, I want to make sure that we get

[3:33:30] Trustee Morrison: this past um like forwarded on to executive council before we lose quorum here so um

[3:33:36] Trustee Morrison: is there anything else that we need to look over on this chunk delaney before we make that

[3:33:42] Trustee Morrison: recommendation on forwarding these um to i guess it's to ec or to trust council yeah

[3:33:51] Voice 16: so in the

[3:33:52] Voice 16: cover rfd for tpc we've included this recommended resolution to forward it to executive committee

[3:33:59] Voice 16: for Inclusion in the September 2022 Trust Council Agenda Package. We've gone over all the sections

[3:34:06] Voice 16: of the RFD now, so it's just if you have any other comments of things that are missing,

[3:34:12] Voice 16: otherwise we've addressed everything in the RFD.

[3:34:16] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so before we make the motion to forward

[3:34:18] Trustee Morrison: as amended, so it'll be that motion as

[3:34:21] Voice 4: amended, so

[3:34:22] Trustee Morrison: before we make that motion, is there anything

[3:34:25] Trustee Morrison: Anything else anybody wants to add or comment on in that request for a decision?

[3:34:35] Trustee Morrison: All right.

[3:34:35] Trustee Morrison: Can somebody put that one on the table for me then?

[3:34:37] Trustee Morrison: So it is on page 21.

[3:34:40] Trustee Morrison: And if you can just make sure you add as amended at the end of it.

[3:34:47] Trustee Morrison: Oh, it's now up in front of us.

[3:34:51] Trustee Morrison: I'm going to ask who has not.

[3:34:53] Trustee Morrison: Let's see.

[3:34:55] Trustee Morrison: Can I have a trustee?

[3:34:59] Trustee Morrison: I don't know.

[3:35:00] Trustee Morrison: Sorry, I don't like that.

[3:35:01] Trustee Morrison: You're all flipping around because I'm looking at the screen here.

[3:35:03] Trustee Morrison: here. Trustee Rogers, can you go ahead and make that motion?

[3:35:07] Voice 15: I can. Trustee Peterson had his hand

[3:35:09] Voice 15: up, but I'm happy

[3:35:09] Trustee Morrison: to do it. He can

[3:35:10] Voice 15: second it. I can move that the trust programs committee for

[3:35:15] Voice 15: the attached request for decision as amendment to executive committee for inclusion in September

[3:35:20] Voice 15: 2022 trust council agenda package.

[3:35:23] Trustee Morrison: As amended. Oh, or was it already there? You got it already.

[3:35:28] Trustee Morrison: Look at that. It was already in there. Thank you very much. And Trustee Peterson, you're okay to

[3:35:32] Trustee Morrison: second that okay let me take that hand as a yes okay any comments or questions remaining thoughts

[3:35:42] Trustee Morrison: on this claire did you have something you wanted to add um

[3:35:49] Voice 17: just simply it's good practice to be a

[3:35:50] Voice 17: bit more specific um the attached request for decision it

[3:35:53] Voice 17: would have been beneficial to sort

[3:35:55] Voice 17: of put you know

[3:35:56] Voice 17: regarding the policy statement something like that to specify but we can we can

[3:35:59] Voice 17: live with this but in in general it's good to have when you look at resolutions over the years it's

[3:36:04] Voice 17: it's good to be able to have them stand a bit alone.

[3:36:08] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so that the Trust Programs Committee

[3:36:11] Trustee Morrison: forward the attached draft policy statement, would it be?

[3:36:17] Voice 16: I would say the attached policy statement

[3:36:19] Voice 16: amendment project request for decision.

[3:36:22] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so the attached policy statement

[3:36:24] Trustee Morrison: amendment project request for decision.

[3:36:26] Trustee Morrison: No, not there, perfect.

[3:36:27] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so are we okay with that, Dan and Tim?

[3:36:32] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, okay.

[3:36:34] Trustee Morrison: I think I'll get you all back on my screen

[3:36:36] Trustee Morrison: so I can see everybody nodding.

[3:36:37] Trustee Morrison: all right so um i'm going to go ahead and call for the vote on this um can i have digital hands with

[3:36:45] Trustee Morrison: everyone who is in agreement all right okay hands down that carries unanimously

[3:37:00] Trustee Morrison: all right uh trustee colburn did you oh that's just a delay sorry about that

[3:37:04] Voice 15: thanks delaney

[3:37:06] Voice 15: okay

[3:37:08] Trustee Morrison: and yeah i just want to say a big thank you to like this was a lot of stuff to synthesize from

[3:37:13] Trustee Morrison: from like a very wide ranging conversation last meeting.

[3:37:17] Trustee Morrison: So thank you to staff for doing that.

[3:37:19] Trustee Morrison: And I know you did it among various summer holiday

[3:37:24] Trustee Morrison: obligations and things too.

[3:37:25] Trustee Morrison: So thank you very much for doing that.

[3:37:28] Trustee Morrison: I feel like we're the most difficult project

[3:37:32] Trustee Morrison: trust right now, but all right.

[3:37:35] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so we are down at page 29.

[3:37:44] Trustee Morrison: No, yes, 29.

[3:37:48] Trustee Morrison: trust program committee budget and work program so if I can have Claire I think just give us a

[3:37:56] Trustee Morrison: elevator version of this

[3:37:58] Voice 17: certainly so certain we neglected on your May agenda to ask you what

[3:38:04] Voice 17: business cases you wanted staff to develop so I've gone ahead and preemptively guessed

[3:38:09] Voice 17: what it is you might like to put forward to the next term as recommendations certainly

[3:38:15] Voice 17: Certainly, the committee can recommend anything it might like in terms of whether you want to put forward specific business cases, whether you'd like to advance just simply a placeholder amount of money, or whether you'd like to come up with other program areas like things we haven't addressed this year like indicators or other topic areas, and we could develop business cases for inclusion in the Financial Planning Committee next package.

[3:38:39] Voice 17: so really this is a conversation for the committee what do you want to recommend um be budgeted for

[3:38:45] Voice 17: and how much so as i say i've taken a guess here but this is just simply anticipating what i expect

[3:38:52] Voice 17: you might want to do but there's a whole range of things you might want to recommend be budgeted or

[3:38:57] Voice 17: you might just want to safely take a place older approach and leave it up to the next committee to

[3:39:02] Voice 17: determine um

[3:39:03] Trustee Morrison: claire would we need to given the conversation around communications public

[3:39:07] Trustee Morrison: public engagement, consultation work and training.

[3:39:11] Trustee Morrison: Would that type of training and work with trustees need to be budgeted?

[3:39:17] Voice 17: Certainly it can. It can. It is somewhat budgeted.

[3:39:20] Voice 17: And again, we could get your executive committee members here to speak to it through the orientation that we're planning for trustees in terms of the onboarding of the next trust council.

[3:39:27] Voice 17: So some of that would occur there and be budgeted through sort of the trust council training budget.

[3:39:31] Voice 17: budget. But if you wanted to, but in terms of the next fiscal year, if you had specific training

[3:39:37] Voice 17: you wanted to undertake, we, you might want to make, this year we had a substantial bump in the

[3:39:42] Voice 17: communications budget. You might want to make a recommendation that that be sustained, because

[3:39:47] Voice 17: we're up to 50,000 now, which gives us much more leeway than sort of the previous, I think it was

[3:39:51] Voice 17: around 18 or 20. So yes, but communication requests generally go through the executive

[3:39:57] Voice 17: executive committee in terms of budget requests.

[3:40:00] Voice 17: But this committee could certainly make recommendations.

[3:40:05] Voice 17: Tim.

[3:40:09] Voice 22: Yeah,

[3:40:09] Voice 9: that speaks directly

[3:40:10] Voice 9: to what I was just going to propose,

[3:40:13] Voice 12: which was a motion to have RPC request staff

[3:40:16] Voice 12: develop a business case for communication strategy

[3:40:19] Voice 12: for the policy statement amendment project.

[3:40:25] Trustee Morrison: So Claire, given what you just said,

[3:40:27] Trustee Morrison: should that be proposed that executive committee develop it?

[3:40:31] Trustee Morrison: yes

[3:40:32] Voice 17: I think that would be appropriate or I see Dan's hand up yeah

[3:40:36] Voice 15: I was just going to say um

[3:40:37] Voice 15: I mean you you could make a trust programs committee request for money but generally

[3:40:44] Voice 15: speaking because we're talking about all trustees um and education and and communication strategy

[3:40:50] Voice 15: for all trustees not just the trust programs committee that that would be an executive slash

[3:40:56] Voice 15: slash trust council budget discussion as opposed to a tpc recommendation i would think it would

[3:41:04] Voice 15: come through the executive uh you could ask us to do that i'd ask the executive to do that um

[3:41:10] Voice 15: and and say we would like the executive to develop a budget around an uh whatever the right word is

[3:41:18] Voice 15: enhanced robust uh communication strategy around um the trust policy statement um communication

[3:41:27] Voice 15: and that would be something that would come through the executive i that's the way i would

[3:41:32] Voice 15: see it anyway i see claire nodding i hope you're nodding right claire so

[3:41:37] Trustee Morrison: yeah so if i don't want

[3:41:39] Trustee Morrison: to go ahead cross conversation right now because i really want to keep us moving so sorry i'm going

[3:41:43] Trustee Morrison: And I like be the chair for a second.

[3:41:45] Trustee Morrison: So if I can have the motion space

[3:41:49] Trustee Morrison: for drafting motions up in front of us,

[3:41:51] Trustee Morrison: and if we can, Tim, if I can, with that input,

[3:41:55] Trustee Morrison: if you can give me, or not me, give Robert a text again

[3:41:59] Trustee Morrison: of what you're thinking, given that input.

[3:42:04] Voice 12: Okay, great.

[3:42:05] Voice 12: So I did send him that earlier,

[3:42:08] Voice 11: but I would

[3:42:09] Voice 12: change it now with that input,

[3:42:11] Voice 12: put that trust programs committee request EC,

[3:42:20] Voice 12: I guess they won't develop business case to EC to...

[3:42:28] Voice 12: They

[3:42:29] Trustee Morrison: would develop the business cases

[3:42:32] Trustee Morrison: that to them to direct staff to do it.

[3:42:34] Voice 12: Okay, develop a business case

[3:42:35] Voice 12: for the communication strategy

[3:42:39] Voice 12: for an enhanced communications strategy.

[3:42:44] Trustee Morrison: Okay. And Claire, I see you have your hand up too. Do you want to make some recommendations

[3:42:47] Trustee Morrison: to that language before we

[3:42:49] Voice 17: send it? Yeah. So I would recommend the executive

[3:42:51] Voice 17: committee is going to be, I would expect, forwarding a business case about the project

[3:42:55] Voice 17: in general. So it might be that you want to request that in the requested executive committee

[3:43:01] Voice 17: include funding for an enhanced communication strategy within the business case for 2023-24

[3:43:09] Voice 17: for, for the project, please trust programs committee request executive committee to include

[3:43:18] Voice 17: funding for an enhanced communication strategy.

[3:43:21] Trustee Morrison: Okay. And that's already on the paper

[3:43:23] Voice 14: within,

[3:43:24] Voice 14: within

[3:43:25] Trustee Morrison: strategy,

[3:43:28] Voice 14: within, um, a business,

[3:43:33] Voice 14: the business case.

[3:43:40] Trustee Morrison: Okay. And then just take everything

[3:43:41] Trustee Morrison: from there down to the, the policy statement. Oh no, leave the last bit there. So the,

[3:43:50] Trustee Morrison: So, delete everything after the word.

[3:43:52] Voice 4: For the.

[3:43:54] Trustee Morrison: Okay, I'm going to ask Tim to be the one speaking.

[3:43:56] Trustee Morrison: Tim, can you make sure it's clear?

[3:43:58] Voice 12: Yeah, up to for the policy statement and management project.

[3:44:00] Voice 12: Yeah, that looks good to me.

[3:44:04] Voice 12: Yeah, I think that looks good to me.

[3:44:06] Voice 12: Any other?

[3:44:08] Voice 17: You might wish to add to fiscal year.

[3:44:10] Voice 17: So, in front of business case, you could put 2023-24.

[3:44:15] Voice 10: Okay, perfect.

[3:44:18] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[3:44:18] Trustee Morrison: Any other changes to that, Claire or Tim?

[3:44:25] Trustee Morrison: We're good?

[3:44:26] Trustee Morrison: Okay. So Tim's moving that. Is there a second? So I have Dan seconding that. All right. I'm going

[3:44:37] Trustee Morrison: to go ahead and call the vote on that one. I don't see anybody jumping in with anything else to say

[3:44:42] Trustee Morrison: there. So can we call the vote on that? All those in favor? Okay. Hands down. Thank you. That carries.

[3:45:00] Trustee Morrison: all right so that's one addition that would be in there and then any other sort of thoughts or

[3:45:08] Trustee Morrison: comments or any other business cases people think need to be made otherwise we'll go ahead and make

[3:45:21] Trustee Morrison: the recommendations one and two as amended or actually no so we just need to pass the one

[3:45:26] Trustee Morrison: and the two because you've already just put the forward to the ec for the other one so and

[3:45:34] Trustee Morrison: actually we can make them one at a time so if anybody wants to go ahead and make one or two

[3:45:38] Trustee Morrison: then we can get those out of the way. I'm on page 31. Dan?

[3:45:44] Voice 15: I'll move the Trust Programs

[3:45:46] Voice 15: Committee forward to the Financial Planning Committee for inclusion in the fiscal year

[3:45:52] Voice 15: 2023. This case for $20,000 for stewardship education. Don't we have to ask that you

[3:45:58] Voice 15: develop that first, Claire? I'm just reading off.

[3:46:01] Voice 17: This is where I got ahead of you and it's

[3:46:04] Voice 17: attached in your package oh

[3:46:05] Voice 15: it is right you're right i'm sorry that's right i i beg your pardon

[3:46:10] Voice 15: i remember now when i read this i'm sorry i'll make that motion the business case for twenty

[3:46:14] Voice 15: thousand dollars for stewardship education okay

[3:46:19] Trustee Morrison: and can i get a second on that i got a lot of

[3:46:24] Trustee Morrison: hands on so tim seconds that okay any conversation on this motion and if i can get the motion well

[3:46:30] Trustee Morrison: Well, the motion's in the packet on page 31.

[3:46:34] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Fenton?

[3:46:42] Voice 24: Trustee Nings.

[3:46:43] Voice 24: Sorry, I blew over my hand.

[3:46:46] Trustee Morrison: Okay, no worries.

[3:46:48] Trustee Morrison: Okay, so any further discussion

[3:46:50] Trustee Morrison: on forwarding that business case to financial planning?

[3:46:58] Trustee Morrison: Okay, go ahead and call the vote.

[3:47:00] Trustee Morrison: All those in favor, hands up.

[3:47:13] Trustee Morrison: All hands down.

[3:47:17] Trustee Morrison: Any opposed?

[3:47:21] Trustee Morrison: Okay, I have Dan and Steve with hands up,

[3:47:25] Trustee Morrison: but I'm thinking that you're in favor as opposed to opposed. Okay. So I got, I got it, Steve. Thank

[3:47:29] Trustee Morrison: you. Okay. That carries. All right. Does somebody want to make the second resolution with respect

[3:47:38] Trustee Morrison: to the secretariat services? Trustee Critchley?

[3:47:45] Trustee Critchley: Thank you. I'll move the trust programs committee

[3:47:47] Trustee Critchley: forward to the financial planning committee for inclusion in the fiscal year 2023-24 budget,

[3:47:53] Trustee Critchley: the business case for 15 000 for secretariat services okay

[3:47:58] Trustee Morrison: do i have a second on that

[3:48:00] Trustee Morrison: okay uh doug is seconding that any conversation about that motion i'm going to go ahead and call

[3:48:18] Trustee Morrison: the motion all those in favor hands up all right thank you very much hands down that carries

[3:48:31] Trustee Morrison: okay are there any other budget requests or recommendations that we want to make ben did

[3:48:37] Trustee Morrison: Did you have something?

[3:48:38] Trustee Morrison: Or is that just a, no, sorry,

[3:48:39] Trustee Morrison: I'm being too quick on the hands up, hands down thing.

[3:48:42] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[3:48:44] Trustee Morrison: All right.

[3:48:46] Trustee Morrison: I think we should do this at trust council one time

[3:48:48] Trustee Morrison: where everybody just has to stand up

[3:48:50] Trustee Morrison: and then you can like you vote by standing up

[3:48:52] Trustee Morrison: because it feels like that sometimes for me.

[3:48:54] Trustee Morrison: It's hands up, hands down.

[3:48:55] Trustee Morrison: All right.

[3:48:57] Trustee Morrison: It was funny in my head.

[3:48:59] Trustee Morrison: All right.

[3:49:01] Trustee Morrison: So Claire, is there anything else that you need

[3:49:03] Trustee Morrison: from us on the budgetary front?

[3:49:05] Voice 17: Nope, just simply contemplation of a committee.

[3:49:07] Voice 17: is this is this what you want to you know is there anything else you wish to budget for

[3:49:11] Voice 17: um to provide space in the you know this would be the first draft of the budget

[3:49:15] Voice 17: um is there any other work you know you had other priorities this term climate indicators

[3:49:20] Voice 17: um you know other projects that you had contemplated um so this would just be the

[3:49:24] Voice 17: moment for you to decide is there anything else you want to recommend that be budgeted

[3:49:28] Voice 17: a bit tricky given you don't know what the next strategic plan will be like

[3:49:32] Voice 17: or is there additional placeholder money you want to put in place it's easier to take things

[3:49:37] Voice 17: out of the budget later than it is to add in at the beginning but it's certainly um yeah just want

[3:49:42] Voice 17: the committee to ponder that and then just be sure where you're at um and then fpc will get

[3:49:47] Voice 17: the recommendations at the first draft in um november so

[3:49:51] Trustee Morrison: placeholder money for the tpc what

[3:49:54] Trustee Morrison: kind of placeholder money has been put in before just like a chunk of money with definition related

[3:49:59] Trustee Morrison: to it

[3:49:59] Voice 17: so in the past um last fiscal we did twenty five thousand dollars but that was that was the

[3:50:04] Voice 17: the whole request, because the committee didn't have continuing programming such as you have now.

[3:50:11] Voice 17: RPC has just requested, I believe it was $100,000 in placeholder money for future work.

[3:50:17] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, I do think we should put in some kind of placeholder money because there's a number of

[3:50:22] Trustee Morrison: other things on our fuel list and our projects list that potentially we'll start to use if we

[3:50:29] Trustee Morrison: can get through a little bit more on the trust policy statement. And there's different, yeah,

[3:50:34] Trustee Morrison: Yeah. So I just, I do think there is potentially some need to put some other money in there.

[3:50:39] Trustee Morrison: How much was the, like the climate indicators thing? What had been the budget for that?

[3:50:44] Trustee Morrison: We were doing a matching was 50,000, wasn't it?

[3:50:48] Trustee Morrison: Lonnie, do you remember?

[3:50:50] Voice 16: Yeah, it was overall 25,000 in the strategic plan. And we used, I think, 5,000 of that for

[3:50:57] Voice 16: the scoping project. So there was 20,000. And I think we've deemed that that's,

[3:51:03] Voice 16: that's highly insufficient for that kind of work um but could receive money for something

[3:51:09] Voice 16: right

[3:51:10] Trustee Morrison: okay dan i

[3:51:19] Voice 15: i actually we have in the past used placeholder money um i think that we i note

[3:51:26] Voice 15: that our um our stewardship education is focused on the living the trust uh aspect but not on

[3:51:33] Voice 15: direct delivery of education programs which were quite successful in our first couple years

[3:51:38] Voice 15: years of this term but we've sort of let them go and i would i would think that perhaps we might

[3:51:46] Voice 15: want to if capacity um um permitting we might want to try and reintroduce some of those so

[3:51:53] Voice 15: it might be a good idea to put some money aside for that as well um so i might move that we

[3:52:00] Voice 15: We asked staff to develop a placeholder business case of $10,000 for direct ecosystem preservation education delivery or something like that.

[3:52:16] Voice 15: I don't know what the right word is for that.

[3:52:18] Voice 15: Deb, you might be able to help me better with that.

[3:52:21] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, I would just think for like, you know, community-based learning efforts in the Territory Area.

[3:52:26] Voice 15: Exactly.

[3:52:28] Voice 15: That's exactly what I was trying to say.

[3:52:30] Voice 15: so but

[3:52:31] Trustee Morrison: i would suggest that if we put it in as placeholder i actually think we should put it in

[3:52:36] Trustee Morrison: as like i i really think just given the way the budgetary processes work i think we should put

[3:52:43] Trustee Morrison: it in as like fifty thousand dollars and like we we we specify four things such as community-based

[3:52:49] Trustee Morrison: we don't limit it to just that but say such as community-based learning and other things deemed

[3:52:55] Trustee Morrison: necessary by the incoming committee sure

[3:53:00] Voice 15: claire i'm not sure where that sits as a motion now but

[3:53:04] Voice 15: can

[3:53:04] Trustee Morrison: i get the emotions up in front of us thank you um claire thoughts on that so

[3:53:10] Voice 17: in your budget

[3:53:11] Voice 17: case on page 33 34 for the stewardship education money i noted that um you know the there is some

[3:53:19] Voice 17: money within the stewardship education monies that's been presented we're not anticipating

[3:53:23] Voice 17: that the living in the trust area mailing would take the entire 20,000 that's been proposed.

[3:53:28] Voice 17: So rather than, because I think what you're talking about is really stewardship education,

[3:53:32] Voice 17: but some clarity would be helpful. What you might want to do is just revisit the motion you just

[3:53:36] Voice 17: passed and direct staff to, in fact, boost the number within this business case and maybe add

[3:53:42] Voice 17: some additional rationale. I think that's what I'm hearing might be your intent. So you might

[3:53:47] Voice 17: want to revisit the motion just passed and, in fact, put the number up if you want to have more

[3:53:51] Voice 17: more resources available. Um, and also I would, we don't know, but I anticipate the real estate

[3:53:57] Voice 17: market might cool a little bit. So we may actually have fewer property sales next fiscal, which might

[3:54:02] Voice 17: then bring down the cost of living in the trust area. It's difficult to budget at this time.

[3:54:07] Trustee Morrison: Frankly, I don't think it would hurt to put a communication out to everyone currently living

[3:54:11] Trustee Morrison: in the trust area.

[3:54:13] Voice 17: And we did estimate that at about $80,000.

[3:54:16] Trustee Morrison: Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So

[3:54:19] Trustee Morrison: So I'm hearing that potentially what we would, the better motion for that type of thing would

[3:54:26] Trustee Morrison: be to amend the, or just to ask for an amendment to increase the value of the business case

[3:54:33] Trustee Morrison: number one or two, sorry, I'm not on that page.

[3:54:38] Trustee Morrison: It's the first one

[3:54:39] Voice 17: in your agenda.

[3:54:40] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[3:54:40] Trustee Morrison: So the business case related to stewardship education from 20,000 to say 50,000 as a placeholder,

[3:54:48] Trustee Morrison: maybe it's not that much.

[3:54:50] Trustee Morrison: from 20,000 to 40,000 or something.

[3:54:53] Trustee Morrison: So think about what that number might be

[3:54:56] Trustee Morrison: and what that motion might be, Claire,

[3:54:57] Trustee Morrison: because I'm going to just go to Steve

[3:54:58] Trustee Morrison: and then I want to come back to what that motion might be.

[3:55:00] Trustee Morrison: Steve?

[3:55:04] Voice 23: Yeah, this is exactly how we get budget creep.

[3:55:07] Voice 23: We keep throwing little projects in

[3:55:09] Voice 23: and then at the end of the year,

[3:55:11] Voice 23: we've got this huge amount of money

[3:55:12] Voice 23: and then we're having to reconsider everything.

[3:55:14] Voice 23: RPC meeting the other day is bouncing figures around.

[3:55:18] Voice 23: We're starting to bounce figures around.

[3:55:20] Voice 23: We have no idea what costs are.

[3:55:22] Voice 23: are not provided with estimates if they are even possible.

[3:55:26] Voice 23: Well, I just want to warn us before you start throwing

[3:55:29] Voice 23: this money in these figures around,

[3:55:31] Voice 23: have some idea what the cumulative effect

[3:55:33] Voice 23: this is going to have on the entire budget,

[3:55:35] Voice 23: because this is one issue that really grates on the public.

[3:55:40] Voice 23: And we don't want to start creating a problem

[3:55:43] Voice 23: for the next council to have to go through

[3:55:44] Voice 23: the budgetary difficulties and the bad publicity

[3:55:48] Voice 23: we got last term.

[3:55:49] Voice 23: so let me just throw that on the table so we can be a little more aware of what we're doing

[3:55:54] Voice 23: and the numbers we're throwing around we don't do this in our personal finances i don't see why we

[3:56:00] Voice 23: should be doing this with the trust finances so

[3:56:03] Trustee Morrison: do you have a like recommended solution of what

[3:56:06] Trustee Morrison: specifically we would do because like it seems to me from what you just said it would be better to

[3:56:12] Trustee Morrison: separate it so that we're not mixing things up as trust counsel they can vote on one thing at a time

[3:56:18] Trustee Morrison: time right so that this stewardship education component is just the living in the trust area

[3:56:23] Trustee Morrison: and potentially there's another stewardship education that's more about webinars or

[3:56:28] Trustee Morrison: communications or community-based learning efforts and that this is and that we need we

[3:56:35] Trustee Morrison: would need a business case on that so whatever the number is that staff come up with based on that so

[3:56:40] Trustee Morrison: we direct staff to come up with a business case on that yeah

[3:56:44] Voice 23: and and and make it realistic I mean

[3:56:48] Voice 23: I'm not sure how these estimates are developed, but I can't even say without insulting any of my

[3:56:57] Voice 23: co-trustees that the Finance Committee likes to get involved with these things, but there's very

[3:57:03] Voice 23: few people that actually have experience in finances. I'm not against any of these programs.

[3:57:10] Voice 23: I'm not against much. I'm just throwing out a precautionary note that this might come back to

[3:57:14] Voice 23: to bite the next trustees and council

[3:57:16] Voice 23: and I don't want to put them in an awkward position.

[3:57:19] Voice 23: That's all.

[3:57:24] Voice 17: Mayor, thoughts on this?

[3:57:26] Voice 17: So if I could make a suggestion,

[3:57:28] Voice 17: if you just want to budget for the living

[3:57:30] Voice 17: and the trust area mailing separately,

[3:57:31] Voice 17: I could recommend around 13 to $15,000

[3:57:35] Voice 17: is what we're using 13,000 this year for that purpose.

[3:57:40] Voice 17: So that would give you sufficient wiggle room there

[3:57:42] Voice 17: to amend the publications or as needed.

[3:57:45] Voice 17: And then you could do a separate business case

[3:57:46] Voice 17: for stewardship education if that's what you wanted and within stewardship education we've

[3:57:51] Voice 17: done webinars have been quite well received with associated you know publications or supports and

[3:57:57] Voice 17: we need to budget within that to compensate honorary act for the speakers any elders that

[3:58:02] Voice 17: might provide a welcome and depending on staff capacity here potentially contract time to assist

[3:58:09] Voice 17: with it also you've done road shows where you've gone to every island and talked about groundwater

[3:58:13] Voice 17: water that was done a few years ago um and that i would have to look back at the budget estimates

[3:58:18] Voice 17: for that but you're certainly talking a lot more money when we're out on the road i'm meeting with

[3:58:22] Voice 17: public that said all of those approaches are well received and there may there's a whole gamut of

[3:58:26] Voice 17: education opportunities that are there um beyond what i've just described that you may wish to

[3:58:31] Voice 17: recommend um so in terms of an estimate really it's it's what the committee deems to be an

[3:58:37] Voice 17: appropriate amount and then staff would develop options within that um but i think you know we

[3:58:43] Voice 17: we could deliver a modest, I was suggesting here, I was estimating you'd spend $5,000 to $7,000 on

[3:58:48] Voice 17: one or two webinars within the current scope of the current business case. But if you're thinking

[3:58:54] Voice 17: you might want to do something more robust than that, then certainly you'd be looking at, you

[3:58:57] Voice 17: know, $20,000 to $30,000 to deliver a whole separate program.

[3:59:06] Trustee Morrison: Okay. So I would need a motion

[3:59:08] Trustee Morrison: from somebody in this space if we want to do either of those. So it sounds like if we want

[3:59:15] Trustee Morrison: to adjust the we could leave it as is and that would cover a couple webinars and the stewardship

[3:59:23] Trustee Morrison: living in the trust things that's what that currently does if we want to separate it so

[3:59:28] Trustee Morrison: it's very clear that one thing is living in the trust we need a motion to edit that down to say

[3:59:33] Trustee Morrison: 15 000 instead of 20 and then if you also want to have a business case for more communications or

[3:59:40] Trustee Morrison: community-based learning, we'd need an amount and a request for the staff to create that business

[3:59:46] Trustee Morrison: case. So what direction would you like, folks? Anybody willing to take one of those things?

[3:59:57] Trustee Morrison: Okay, Dan?

[3:59:58] Voice 15: I'm just going to say I'm

[4:00:00] Voice 15: content to leave it the way it is and let the next trust counsel uh if they want to have a more

[4:00:04] Voice 15: robust education program like i would want to have like i was talking about uh when staff's

[4:00:10] Voice 15: available but perhaps the trust policy statement's gonna take all capacity anyway so uh i'm i'm

[4:00:16] Voice 15: content to leave it the way it is yeah

[4:00:21] Voice 3: this is

[4:00:23] Trustee McConchie: random but uh i agree with what trustee right

[4:00:25] Trustee McConchie: and trustee right as you say but if you know some of our best representatives of living in

[4:00:29] Trustee McConchie: the trust area are trustees and if we paid them appropriately uh you know i would have more time

[4:00:35] Trustee McConchie: to go out and anyways i i'm done

[4:00:39] Trustee Morrison: that's a good soapbox in some ways because it's true or i would

[4:00:43] Trustee Morrison: i would also have more time um all right so i'm not hearing any motions i was being left as is

[4:00:53] Trustee Morrison: okay all right that moves us down to where we are done with budget oh my gosh are we at

[4:01:06] Trustee Morrison: the letter 8.2 okay i hope folks had time to have a look at this it was uh actually really hard to

[4:01:16] Trustee Morrison: write um so and i'm open to everything and anything on you know thoughts about what should

[4:01:25] Trustee Morrison: be included or if there's big pieces missing um if my tone gets too like you know laid back

[4:01:33] Trustee Morrison: it was early in the morning when i wrote it um tim yeah

[4:01:41] Voice 9: thank you chair um the piece that i

[4:01:44] Voice 9: identify as missing from this letter is uh thank you sorry

[4:01:49] Trustee Morrison: you need to speak directly with your

[4:01:51] Trustee Morrison: Mike sorry uh

[4:01:54] Voice 12: the the piece I identify as missing from this letter is First Nations reconciliation

[4:02:00] Voice 12: so I think a paragraph um you know highlighting that you know the emerging nature of the issue

[4:02:10] Voice 12: and the importance of it in the aspects of what the committee does would be good okay

[4:02:16] Trustee Morrison: Okay, I

[4:02:17] Voice 3: will get that in there. It's funny that I missed that. Okay.

[4:02:34] Trustee Morrison: Oh, here we go. Okay, so I'll add that in. And anything else that people can see Steve, you're muted.

[4:02:51] Voice 3: I

[4:02:57] Voice 23: don't want to hurt your feelings on this, Deb, but I found this to be kind of a pretty picture and a revision of history to a certain extent, particularly the last paragraph.

[4:03:10] Voice 23: I don't think that the difficulties we had with the strategic plan was due to a limited amount of budget or staff.

[4:03:23] Voice 23: I think that our budget began in Galliano with $45,000 for three objectives.

[4:03:30] Voice 23: And as you talk about scope creep, that is the fault of council.

[4:03:38] Voice 23: And we totally blew this process, not just council,

[4:03:43] Voice 23: but I think that staff got a little too enthusiastic about it.

[4:03:50] Voice 23: we tried to incorporate far more than we are capable of doing um i don't know what the budget

[4:03:56] Voice 23: is i don't how we can say we did not have sufficient staff resources or budget because

[4:04:00] Voice 23: nobody knows how much we spend including staff time on this project it was just a cock up right

[4:04:06] Voice 23: from day one and um i just to say that uh you know to put it in this purview is is i i just

[4:04:14] Voice 23: I just find it a little disingenuous to to the real history of it and um I I appreciate the

[4:04:22] Voice 23: fact that we want to try and make everything look look like we're doing our job but um uh I think

[4:04:27] Voice 23: we have to take responsibility for when we screw up and I think we screwed up big time sorry about

[4:04:32] Voice 23: that

[4:04:32] Trustee Morrison: no you don't have to be sorry I didn't include that that aspect so I basically had this

[4:04:40] Trustee Morrison: moment of like I wanted to say a lot about how what happened also with trustees and voting

[4:04:47] Trustee Morrison: on the July 8th space but I didn't feel like I can say that as an individual because those are

[4:04:55] Trustee Morrison: my individual feelings about how that is and so I was struggling with what I can say as an individual

[4:05:00] Trustee Morrison: and what I can't so because I do think that the way that we engaged in public engagement and not

[4:05:08] Trustee Morrison: not the staff, the way that the trustees made decisions about how we're going to take input

[4:05:14] Trustee Morrison: from the public was really challenging and problematic. And the way that the, you know,

[4:05:19] Trustee Morrison: that July 8th meeting in particular, the way that we went from a draft out to a public thing that

[4:05:24] Trustee Morrison: got a bunch of engagement, that was really problematic from my point of view. And so,

[4:05:31] Trustee Morrison: but that's my personal opinion. The trust council move was to do that in that moment. So I'm

[4:05:37] Trustee Morrison: struggling with how to name that aspect of the work.

[4:05:41] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, so any guidance as a committee here

[4:05:44] Trustee Morrison: would be really helpful from trustees on how to do that.

[4:05:48] Trustee Morrison: Trustee Critchley.

[4:05:51] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[4:05:51] Trustee Critchley: I'm just gonna take the contrary position

[4:05:54] Trustee Critchley: to my colleague from South Pender to say,

[4:06:00] Trustee Critchley: I would say well done, Trustee Morrison, Chair Morrison.

[4:06:04] Trustee Critchley: I think it's a nice tradition that you're establishing

[4:06:08] Trustee Critchley: in this passing of the baton with a kind of a backgrounder here, and I very much appreciate it.

[4:06:17] Trustee Critchley: Yes, one can always have different choices of words, but I think, too, as a chair in particular,

[4:06:25] Trustee Critchley: you have a particular peculiar responsibility of diplomacy as well, and so while Trustee Wright

[4:06:35] Trustee Critchley: maybe free to excoriate the trust

[4:06:38] Trustee Critchley: that all associated with it.

[4:06:41] Trustee Critchley: And that's all fair ball and we thrive on criticism.

[4:06:45] Trustee Critchley: But I think you being the author of it

[4:06:49] Trustee Critchley: and the purpose of it, I think it's a nice touch

[4:06:54] Trustee Critchley: and I wouldn't change anything about it.

[4:06:56] Trustee Critchley: But that's my thought.

[4:06:58] Trustee Critchley: Thank you.

[4:07:03] Trustee Morrison: Great.

[4:07:04] Trustee Morrison: Ben?

[4:07:06] Trustee McConchie: Yeah, I would say, yeah, it was a great letter.

[4:07:09] Trustee McConchie: thanks for writing it agree with trustee critchley i agree with the sentiments and

[4:07:15] Trustee McConchie: frustrations of steve right we yeah for sure and the politics isn't perfect right it's a

[4:07:19] Trustee McConchie: it's a messy thing that's what i've learned this term um and i the only the main thing i really

[4:07:25] Trustee McConchie: wanted to point out um is that at the beginning of the term i talked about the importance of you

[4:07:31] Trustee McConchie: know meeting online and stuff like that and so now we've had like three years to see what meetings

[4:07:35] Trustee McConchie: online are like and this is very much an ideas committee uh or it has been and and that really

[4:07:41] Trustee McConchie: works well when like we were in Nanaimo or yeah Nanaimo in July and that was one of the best

[4:07:47] Trustee McConchie: meetings I thought I had of the whole term uh because it was kind of run like a seminar uh and

[4:07:54] Trustee McConchie: people were free to kind of throw ideas out there this zoom is is really great for formal

[4:08:00] Trustee McConchie: artificial intelligence like past the procedural da da da da um but for i i would i would just

[4:08:06] Trustee McConchie: if there's a sentence in there where you could say um you know as future chair i found in meeting

[4:08:13] Trustee McConchie: in-person meetings where possible for ideas to be uh just and also mentioned just how challenging

[4:08:18] Trustee McConchie: the pandemic was it it really was challenging i think people are highly traumatized from the past

[4:08:23] Trustee McConchie: a couple years and are still are going to be recovering uh and mentioning that there's a

[4:08:28] Trustee McConchie: there's a chance to do the kumbaya thing uh in person is important it's really important to the

[4:08:33] Trustee McConchie: ideas process so um uh i don't know if you want to add that or not but it might be something

[4:08:39] Trustee Morrison: no that's good i totally don't think i even mentioned the pandemic

[4:08:44] Trustee Morrison: yeah so i'll add something in about that okay

[4:08:47] Trustee McConchie: yeah it was it was a thing it did affect our

[4:08:50] Trustee McConchie: our government for sure yeah okay

[4:08:54] Trustee Morrison: all right and so um claire my understanding is that i could

[4:08:58] Trustee Morrison: can revise this letter and then do I need to just send it out again today to the committee

[4:09:03] Trustee Morrison: or does the committee need to approve it uh

[4:09:06] Voice 17: no this isn't this is fairly new for us no this is

[4:09:09] Voice 17: your letter and I think you're just seeking the input of your colleagues okay and then you can

[4:09:12] Voice 17: provide this letter to us and we'll add it to the next agenda okay

[4:09:16] Trustee Morrison: and so um I'll I'll add those

[4:09:20] Trustee Morrison: things in today after this meeting and then send it on to you I got notes on them okay anything else

[4:09:26] Trustee Morrison: and I actually do think that if this is my letter then I do think that I Steve to your point I think

[4:09:35] Trustee Morrison: that I can add a paragraph in there about my own struggle about whether to say this or not and like

[4:09:39] Trustee Morrison: the tensions that I felt in this space and because personally I actually and I don't know if I

[4:09:45] Trustee Morrison: express this to the committee as a whole but I had a lot of tensions being the chair of this

[4:09:49] Trustee Morrison: committee because I deeply disagreed with some things that trust council did at different points

[4:09:55] Trustee Morrison: but I still had to be the chair of this committee and like, like speak my, speak the, the committee's

[4:10:01] Trustee Morrison: stance on particular things that I didn't necessarily agree with. So that's sometimes

[4:10:06] Trustee Morrison: a hard pill to swallow, like in a, in a chair role. And so I can argue with you here and I can

[4:10:13] Trustee Morrison: argue with trust counsel, but in the moment when I take a decision from one place to another,

[4:10:16] Trustee Morrison: I'm representing you. And so I have to do that appropriately. So I just, but that tension,

[4:10:23] Trustee Morrison: I think is fine to name and so I'll try to do it that way. Steve.

[4:10:29] Voice 23: I certainly appreciate that

[4:10:31] Voice 23: chair and as this is your letter and I think you should feel free to express whatever feelings and

[4:10:36] Voice 23: thoughts you have. This is not a criticism of your ability as a chair. You've done a great job.

[4:10:44] Voice 23: I just I think I think anybody who wants to fulfill your position in the next term

[4:10:49] Voice 23: I would totally appreciate an honest explanation of what you have to go through because it's not

[4:10:57] Voice 23: an easy job. So I totally recommend you.

[4:11:02] Trustee Morrison: That's great. Thank you. And I think the

[4:11:03] Trustee Morrison: other piece that's kind of hidden is the ungodly number of emails that I got as the chair related

[4:11:11] Trustee Morrison: to the trust policy statement and how the draft that was released on July 8th, people mapped it

[4:11:17] Trustee Morrison: to me specifically and so the amount of like tension that that was crazy um so okay okay claire

[4:11:28] Voice 17: thank you so with that input we'll look forward to getting a redraft from the chair

[4:11:34] Voice 17: and then i think we're ready to move along in the agenda down to your next item

[4:11:37] Voice 17: yeah can you name it because i'm gonna make a couple this is your work program so this is the

[4:11:43] Voice 17: document that travels to council and then will be inherited by the next committee um which lists

[4:11:48] Voice 17: your top priorities which right now are the policy statement secretariat and stewardship education

[4:11:53] Voice 17: um i think that's fine to have them in that order you may wish to put stewardship education in the

[4:11:58] Voice 17: second place the secretariat is largely underway for the year but it's a bit immaterial and then

[4:12:04] Voice 17: further down um you've got updating crown land agreements just sitting on your projects report

[4:12:10] Voice 17: awaiting more staff capacity and then this referral from council around the community

[4:12:15] Voice 17: benefit land trust concept, which came out of an affordable housing conversation earlier in the

[4:12:21] Voice 17: term, that this might be a project of TPC to look at whether there is scope within the trust for

[4:12:28] Voice 17: holding land for community benefit. So everything for affordable housing, but also other community

[4:12:33] Voice 17: benefits like recycling centers, or I can't think of another example right now. Community learning

[4:12:38] Trustee Morrison: centers.

[4:12:39] Voice 17: What's that? Community learning centers. Community learning centers, whatever it may be.

[4:12:43] Voice 17: so this project was not touched during the term so you may wish to have it here or report back

[4:12:49] Voice 17: to council on recommendations you have around that okay

[4:12:53] Trustee Morrison: any comments on this one maybe i'll

[4:13:01] Trustee Morrison: just say that the community land trust thing i think it is a really good idea it came out of i

[4:13:06] Trustee Morrison: think a presentation by michael sketch i want to say that there was something around that but it

[4:13:12] Trustee Morrison: It has come up in a number of different places,

[4:13:15] Trustee Morrison: and it could potentially offer a pathway

[4:13:19] Trustee Morrison: that is beneficial for the trust.

[4:13:23] Trustee Morrison: Definitely is worth looking at.

[4:13:25] Trustee Morrison: So leaving it on here, I think is helpful.

[4:13:29] Trustee Morrison: Just imagine the Trust Programs Committee

[4:13:31] Trustee Morrison: that doesn't only work on the Trust Policy Statement.

[4:13:35] Trustee Morrison: All right.

[4:13:36] Trustee Morrison: Any other comments or we're good to Tim?

[4:13:39] Trustee Morrison: Tim? I

[4:13:43] Voice 12: was just going to go ahead and move that, that we forward the work program to Trust Council.

[4:13:51] Trustee Morrison: All right. Can I have a second? Ben seconds that. Any discussion? All right. I'm going to call for

[4:13:59] Trustee Morrison: all those in favor. All right. Hands down. That carries. Okay. Oh my gosh. Are we at the end of

[4:14:14] Trustee Morrison: our agenda next meeting friday november 25th that's the new council okay so friday november

[4:14:23] Trustee Morrison: 25th 2022 um and that's that's it i think we are a call for adjournment make

[4:14:36] Voice 6: a motion to adjourn

[4:14:37] Trustee Morrison: all those in second okay second i'm gonna give that one to dan all those in favor all right

[4:14:44] Trustee Morrison: right thank you all for staying with me and like that was a lot to go through and thank you all

[4:14:49] Trustee Morrison: for your work on this it's been great to work with you thank

[4:14:52] Voice 15: you thank you yeah i'd like to

[4:14:55] Voice 12: i'd like to thank everybody