Islands Trust Conservancy Board regular meeting, September 21, 2022

[0:00:33] Voice 6: Hello.

[0:01:15] Voice 6: Guess it's you and me.

[0:01:16] Voice 3: Did you bring the beer?

[0:01:17] Voice 5: So far.

[0:01:19] Voice 5: I was just looking at my cup.

[0:01:21] Voice 5: I don't even have water handy.

[0:01:24] Voice 5: Here we go.

[0:01:29] Voice 5: I can use your office.

[0:01:31] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:02:11] Voice 6: Hello, everybody.

[0:02:22] Voice 5: Director Marler, the meeting is recording and being live streamed.

[0:02:27] Voice 2: All right.

[0:02:28] Voice 2: Thank you.

[0:02:29] Voice 2: Hey.

[0:02:31] Voice 2: Okay, everybody. Yeah, we all, I think we're all here.

[0:02:39] Voice 2: Chair Luckham,

[0:02:40] Voice 6: you could have joined me in the boardroom.

[0:02:41] Voice 6: Okay, just give me a minute to get myself organized.

[0:02:51] Voice 6: He's gone. Maybe he's doing that.

[0:02:56] Voice 6: Maybe. Okay, I'm just going to pull up the, okay.

[0:03:18] Voice 2: Do you want me to share my screen to get us started?

[0:03:21] Voice 2: Just

[0:03:24] Voice 6: going to pull this up here.

[0:03:27] Voice 6: here. Okay. All

[0:03:38] Voice 2: right. I just pulled up the structure of the session here. So we have

[0:03:43] Voice 2: about 40 minutes. So we've got to finish by 4.45. So hoping that you've either got or you've had a

[0:03:51] Voice 2: chance to look at the recommendations from the governance committee. And the idea of this is a

[0:03:58] Voice 2: small table discussion. So I would like you to lead it, not me, on what recommendations do you

[0:04:03] Voice 2: consider achievable for the Allen's Trust and what is not achievable in your view and maybe in terms

[0:04:09] Voice 2: of implementation what further information or studies required for any of those recommendations

[0:04:17] Voice 2: and also be looking for maybe one person to report out and I think it'd be good for an

[0:04:24] Voice 2: elected official to do that so I'll just pass it over to you to start a discussion

[0:04:37] Voice 6: I

[0:04:38] Trustee Stamford: guess we've got to name somebody.

[0:04:42] Trustee Stamford: Laura, you're good at this.

[0:04:45] Trustee Busheikin: Well, probably a recorder and maybe a facilitator, two separate roles.

[0:04:52] Trustee Busheikin: I'm happy to facilitate.

[0:04:54] Voice 2: Okay.

[0:04:55] Voice 2: But I'd just like one of you to lead off the discussion as to what it, you know, maybe

[0:05:01] Voice 2: I could just ask who would like to start, you know.

[0:05:06] Voice 2: well as a

[0:05:07] Trustee Stamford: member as a member of the governance committee do you want me to start i mean we we did

[0:05:13] Trustee Stamford: um i think there's one question that we've got is um the first question is what is your priority

[0:05:20] Trustee Stamford: recommendations for the government's report you wish the committee to focus on so if we start with

[0:05:25] Trustee Stamford: that question if that's okay and then um i'm sure other aspects of these questions will come into

[0:05:32] Trustee Stamford: to that. Trustee Wright, do you want to start with that?

[0:05:40] Voice 3: Well, I think the biggest question is

[0:05:43] Voice 3: whether the structure is sufficient in its conservationist purpose. I'm not absolutely

[0:05:52] Voice 3: sure anymore that the regional district model is working. I think we spend an inordinate amount of

[0:05:57] Voice 3: of time dealing with organizational matters,

[0:06:02] Voice 3: office matters, procedures, policies,

[0:06:05] Voice 3: and processes that don't really in the end

[0:06:10] Voice 3: have as much impact on the mandate,

[0:06:14] Voice 3: fulfilling the mandate as it could.

[0:06:16] Voice 3: So I think there are other models out there that work

[0:06:19] Voice 3: and are working.

[0:06:21] Voice 3: And I think that is a question

[0:06:25] Voice 3: that should be addressed first because if none of this is going to matter if the decision is made to

[0:06:33] Voice 3: to change the structure of the organization so

[0:06:37] Voice 2: if i may just as just to try and get that going

[0:06:41] Voice 2: so when you say regional district model can you just maybe explain what you mean by that

[0:06:47] Voice 2: as opposed to the islands trust act which is different to regional districts

[0:06:51] Voice 2: well

[0:06:52] Voice 3: the provincial government when it after uh created the uh the analyst trust act used the

[0:06:59] Voice 3: regional district model to base its organization on correct and so um that has created um more or

[0:07:08] Voice 3: less a local government type of uh structure of which we are not and i think i think as a public

[0:07:15] Voice 3: trust, most public trusts do not have a local government structure. If we look at other models

[0:07:22] Voice 3: such as the Niagara Escarpment, which is also in charge of more or less preserving, protecting that

[0:07:30] Voice 3: environmental and ecological jewel along the Niagara, then I think that model has worked

[0:07:39] Voice 3: worked well for them and I think possibly it should be looked at okay

[0:07:49] Voice 2: anybody else so that's

[0:07:53] Voice 2: on the structure um so this is aimed at the recommendations from the governance committee

[0:07:58] Voice 2: so I'm sure we can tie that back uh trustee right to one of the recommendations on uh on governance

[0:08:06] Voice 2: uh but looking at the governance committee's recommendations and and do you have them in

[0:08:12] Voice 2: front of you because if not i could pull it up and put it up on the screen but if you have them

[0:08:16] Voice 2: in front of you it'd be good for you to just maybe have a quick look

[0:08:19] Voice 3: yeah no i will i'll see if i can

[0:08:22] Voice 3: pull it up yeah they're on page

[0:08:24] Trustee Busheikin: 29 of the report and they're numbered so that does make it fairly

[0:08:30] Trustee Busheikin: easy to talk about them if we can get the report in front of us starting on page 29

[0:08:39] Trustee Busheikin: and i mean i've i've looked at this i've been skimming it with this question in mind for the

[0:08:45] Trustee Busheikin: last two minutes um so i can put out a bit of an answer um the ones that i think are priority but

[0:08:54] Trustee Busheikin: i have a comment on all of them um i think election of trust council leadership is a priority but i

[0:09:02] Trustee Busheikin: I also, I think it's unrealistic to change it dramatically.

[0:09:08] Trustee Busheikin: Like we need an EC.

[0:09:09] Trustee Busheikin: We can't have an interim EC.

[0:09:12] Trustee Busheikin: Like it's, there's way too much work involved in it

[0:09:15] Trustee Busheikin: and we need to get on with it.

[0:09:17] Trustee Busheikin: So, you know, and I assume that EC is looking at that

[0:09:21] Trustee Busheikin: as they look ahead to the new term,

[0:09:23] Trustee Busheikin: but I do think it's important.

[0:09:27] Trustee Busheikin: Priorities six and seven,

[0:09:29] Trustee Busheikin: helping trustees understand their role I think is really important and it was something else

[0:09:38] Trustee Busheikin: it's not mentioned directly but in the report they talked about trustees creating a consensus

[0:09:46] Trustee Busheikin: about their understanding of the mandate and I think that's that has to be part of this and I

[0:09:52] Trustee Busheikin: actually don't think that's realistic either we're not going to have consensus I don't even think

[0:09:56] Trustee Busheikin: we're supposed to have consensus we're supposed to disagree and debate vigorously and represent

[0:10:01] Trustee Busheikin: the many diverse uh opinions and feelings in the trust area and around the trust area but

[0:10:08] Trustee Busheikin: we somehow need to be able to live with that and not just keep coming back and arguing the

[0:10:17] Trustee Busheikin: same points in an abstract way again and again about the mandate that just i find it um sapped

[0:10:26] Trustee Busheikin: a lot of energy wasted a lot of time we will disagree but let's find out where we do agree

[0:10:31] Trustee Busheikin: and let's decide to agree to disagree and get on with the work and argue it point by point like

[0:10:37] Trustee Busheikin: specific to each thing so six and seven i think are really important generally and um there's

[0:10:45] Trustee Busheikin: another one like you think about the first nations representation um i love that idea i

[0:10:57] Trustee Busheikin: I just don't know if anyone is ready for that.

[0:10:59] Trustee Busheikin: Like if BC is ready for that, if the First Nations are ready for that,

[0:11:02] Trustee Busheikin: if we're ready for that, I don't know,

[0:11:05] Trustee Busheikin: but something towards that starting to bring in a closer working

[0:11:10] Trustee Busheikin: relationship and shared management, shared decision-making,

[0:11:15] Trustee Busheikin: which may or may not look like First Nations represents

[0:11:19] Trustee Busheikin: representatives on council.

[0:11:23] Trustee Busheikin: and then the last one I believe that I think is important to look at oh there's two more

[0:11:29] Trustee Busheikin: number 12 communications and engagement function should replace advocacy I would say should be

[0:11:36] Trustee Busheikin: added to advocacy I think that's actually what we already have I maybe it's just not explicit

[0:11:42] Trustee Busheikin: I think that trust programs department or trust area services does advocacy and communications

[0:11:50] Trustee Busheikin: And there is no one in charge of engagement. We don't have an engagement philosopher. We don't have an engagement policy. It happens. So that, again, like not exactly how they say it, but I think this is really important.

[0:12:02] Trustee Busheikin: important and then the last one which is quite specific is the trustee compensation I don't think

[0:12:08] Trustee Busheikin: I need to say more about that except I will quickly when I was looking or talking to people

[0:12:13] Trustee Busheikin: in the community for new trustees my goal was to have at least one woman run we don't have any

[0:12:18] Trustee Busheikin: women we have four men and all the women I talked to said there's no way I could do that like I'd

[0:12:24] Trustee Busheikin: have to leave my job and I you know it's I can't afford it and I don't have time and I have kids

[0:12:32] Trustee Busheikin: and you know the men didn't say that none of them say even though not all of them were

[0:12:36] Trustee Busheikin: were you know financially totally stable um so i think for um partly for diversity but also so we

[0:12:44] Trustee Busheikin: take the job seriously and have time to do it though those of us who have to have other jobs

[0:12:48] Trustee Busheikin: is that number 15 about compensation that's my bit chair

[0:13:00] Voice 6: lucker well actually i'm

[0:13:03] Trustee Luckham: trying to find

[0:13:03] Trustee Luckham: my uh marked up copy of that governance report i can't find it okay

[0:13:08] Voice 6: so

[0:13:10] Trustee Stamford: i'll i'll go ahead i

[0:13:12] Trustee Stamford: i just find

[0:13:13] Trustee Stamford: that an

[0:13:14] Trustee Luckham: email that or something david that would be helpful and i would

[0:13:18] Trustee Luckham: just go from

[0:13:18] Trustee Luckham: there i

[0:13:20] Trustee Stamford: just find this that we have been so hampered by um acknowledging the the vagueness

[0:13:29] Trustee Stamford: of our mandate and and and coming to some kind of understanding that that may never be answered

[0:13:37] Trustee Stamford: to a a degree that everyone's comfortable with but that it isn't one thing or it isn't another

[0:13:44] Trustee Stamford: thing but coming together on that to allow us to move forward i think for me is the the first

[0:13:51] Trustee Stamford: priority um whether that's achievable that's that's uh another question um so that was sort

[0:13:59] Trustee Stamford: of the one thing that i was looking at in this that is such an important question because i find

[0:14:06] Trustee Stamford: the the report itself sort of wavers between governance and management and and is missing a few

[0:14:15] Trustee Stamford: parts of those questions so that I found, you know, questions that I had were not answered

[0:14:24] Trustee Stamford: in a way that made sense for me. So I can't really say, okay, out of all this, what is the

[0:14:30] Trustee Stamford: most important? But what I did see, that is the question that we do need to answer ourselves. I

[0:14:37] Trustee Stamford: don't think anyone can answer it for us. And I don't think it's settled. So we do have to get

[0:14:43] Trustee Stamford: through that in some way that provides us clarity and i guess that's where the policy statement

[0:14:48] Trustee Stamford: comes in and settling those questions that way so that was going to be my response to that first

[0:14:56] Trustee Stamford: question so we're on the first question um david critchley thank

[0:15:06] Trustee Critchley: you i came late to the party here

[0:15:07] Trustee Critchley: i have trouble accessing the document just to show you the frustration you know i i finally

[0:15:13] Trustee Critchley: located on the trust website and because i'm using an apple device it wouldn't download

[0:15:21] Trustee Critchley: you know it gave me a bunch of gobbledygook so then i had to go and find it from a different

[0:15:26] Trustee Critchley: source which was uh you know the trust council from uh whenever it was i finally found it

[0:15:33] Trustee Critchley: but uh yeah that's annoying so

[0:15:36] Voice 6: you're talking about yes

[0:15:37] Trustee Critchley: okay

[0:15:40] Voice 6: correct

[0:15:42] Trustee Critchley: um

[0:15:44] Trustee Critchley: So I would agree with your comments about the necessity of getting on the same page.

[0:15:53] Trustee Critchley: I have to say that I was completely taken aback by the discussions that we had on that topic, because in the four years previously, I thought we had a common understanding of what the bloody purpose of this organization is.

[0:16:12] Trustee Critchley: I mean, it's pretty fundamental to me. And I assumed it was axiomatic for everybody who was going to be involved in the trust. But now I see what the division is. Essentially, is it an ecologically focused organization, or is it anthropologically oriented or anthropomorphically oriented?

[0:16:40] Trustee Critchley: You know, is it man-centered, or is it the rest of nature-centered that we're to be looking at? That's the way I see the essential breakdown of this. And I have to say that I'm a bit dismayed by the legal report that we got, the legal opinion, which basically says, well, it's up to trust counsel to kind of, you know, decide what that is.

[0:17:06] Trustee Critchley: And I found that most unhelpful, really, because to me, all the words of the object point to an ecological focus for this organization, that we shouldn't be just an agency that is organizing our environment for maximum benefit for the human beings that occupy the space.

[0:17:32] Trustee Critchley: Anyway, that I see as crucial that we get on the same page on that or try to. Whether we can or not, I am now somewhat pessimistic about the ability to do that.

[0:17:45] Trustee Critchley: So what else did I find particularly important here? I'm looking at what's now called communication.

[0:17:54] Trustee Critchley: communication, they seem to want to avoid the advocacy word. I like advocacy or I like lobbying

[0:18:03] Trustee Critchley: because we have within our legislation the direct obligation to execute the mandate in cooperation

[0:18:12] Trustee Critchley: with others. And I think that, well, I think we've done a lot better in this more recently.

[0:18:21] Trustee Critchley: I'd say in this term, in comparison to the previous term, I think that Chair Luckham's visit to Ottawa was a good signal.

[0:18:36] Trustee Critchley: I believe in face-to-face.

[0:18:38] Trustee Critchley: I believe in developing actual personal relationships and so forth, rather than just sending off letters.

[0:18:47] Trustee Critchley: So I do think that recommendation number 12 is exceedingly important.

[0:18:53] Trustee Critchley: Um, number 13 on a management review, I think that that is also significant as we strive to become more efficient with tax conscious people breathing down our necks and looking over our shoulders.

[0:19:12] Trustee Critchley: we we have to be as efficient as we can and and uh i don't know enough about that topic to

[0:19:21] Trustee Critchley: to offer any suggestions but i think that's needs more exploration yeah

[0:19:26] Trustee Stamford: i didn't i didn't

[0:19:27] Trustee Stamford: understand that either yeah i didn't know what it meant

[0:19:31] Trustee Critchley: in 14 the reference to the conservancy and the integration of that i i find that the conservancy

[0:19:44] Trustee Critchley: seems to be this sort of stand-alone, stand-apart thing.

[0:19:47] Trustee Critchley: Yes, we get reports of what's going on there and so forth,

[0:19:50] Trustee Critchley: but we don't seem to have a lot of cross-pollination there.

[0:19:56] Trustee Critchley: And using the resources of the biologist-type resources in there.

[0:20:03] Trustee Critchley: And I mentioned in the course of this Trust Council about,

[0:20:06] Trustee Critchley: is there a need for us to get biologist expertise on board?

[0:20:11] Trustee Critchley: But I'm presuming that you've got adequate within the Conservancy. And why couldn't we access that? The question really arising from some concerns that we rely too much on the professional, the third party professional giving us reports, that professional having been hired by an applicant,

[0:20:39] Trustee Critchley: and that we should look upon that with more scrutiny.

[0:20:45] Trustee Critchley: Anyway, those are the things that jump out to me.

[0:20:50] Trustee Busheikin: Chair Locke.

[0:20:52] Trustee Busheikin: Oh, I forgot to mention it.

[0:20:55] Trustee Busheikin: That number 14, the synergies between Conservancy

[0:20:58] Trustee Busheikin: and the rest of the trust, I give that thumbs up.

[0:21:05] Voice 5: So should I continue on?

[0:21:07] Voice 5: So

[0:21:07] Trustee Luckham: I've got my list here.

[0:21:10] Trustee Luckham: And so, you know, I quite honestly,

[0:21:15] Trustee Luckham: don't really have a fully flushed out idea with respect to recommendation number one.

[0:21:21] Trustee Luckham: And certainly, I think there's some consideration in thinking about how we conduct ourselves

[0:21:27] Trustee Luckham: at the outset of council. There are problems, as has been indicated, and I'm just simply too close

[0:21:34] Trustee Luckham: to it to maybe be as objective as I might like to be. With respect to recommendation number two,

[0:21:41] Trustee Luckham: I'm not sure that we need a whole bunch more committees, but I have asked the question of the committees as we went out, and some of you might remember that as we

[0:21:52] Voice 2: were having our

[0:21:52] Trustee Luckham: last meetings, is the makeup, both geography, gender, and otherwise, and numbers of those committees is appropriate or not.

[0:22:05] Trustee Luckham: And I think that certainly we've now struck a new committee, which is the Governance Committee, and I am in support of that, and I think that's a good move.

[0:22:14] Trustee Luckham: One would have to try to understand what areas of focus there might be that are necessary.

[0:22:21] Trustee Luckham: What did happen both on Trust Programs Committee and on Regional Planning Committee this term is that there were spinoff subcommittees that did work and brought that back to the group.

[0:22:31] Trustee Luckham: And I think that's a good model where there's some self-autonomy to how that unfolds.

[0:22:36] Trustee Luckham: I do think sometimes that fewer members might make for better decisions.

[0:22:42] Trustee Luckham: And then, of course, if you've got more committees, then the 26 members of council can be evenly distributed amongst those committees in an appropriate way.

[0:22:54] Trustee Luckham: and then maybe there's some other guidelines there's been lots of criticism about two trustees

[0:23:00] Trustee Luckham: from the same trust area on a committee too many members of executive committee on a thing

[0:23:04] Trustee Luckham: certainly maybe that makeup might be considered a little bit differently and there's also some

[0:23:10] Trustee Luckham: some confusion and question about the the ex officio membership and what's really the

[0:23:18] Trustee Luckham: the merit of that and should that be so they think that maybe there's some structural and

[0:23:22] Trustee Luckham: And how the composition of those members are made up that might be considered.

[0:23:28] Trustee Luckham: But of course, the standard has been is people put their names on a list and say, yeah, I'd like to be on that committee.

[0:23:35] Trustee Luckham: And maybe that happens too quickly because maybe not everybody understands what the committees do before they say, oh, yeah, I want to be in that committee.

[0:23:43] Trustee Luckham: It looks like it's maybe got some money or something.

[0:23:45] Trustee Luckham: And so I think there's some priority with clarifying that, both the mandate and the role and the composition of those committees.

[0:23:54] Trustee Luckham: I spent quite a bit of time on that one.

[0:23:57] Trustee Luckham: And again, I think that a number of the recommendations circle around that.

[0:24:04] Trustee Luckham: And I think, indeed, we've, again, addressed the orientation.

[0:24:09] Trustee Luckham: It almost seems like it's too late for a new council to address those things.

[0:24:13] Trustee Luckham: things. But as time goes by, more energy needs to be put into that. And indeed, I think this

[0:24:19] Trustee Luckham: council needs to maybe also make as a priority is opportunities for ongoing learning, where,

[0:24:27] Trustee Luckham: you know, you sort of want to have a minimum standard where if somebody's doing this work,

[0:24:31] Trustee Luckham: they should at least have taken that webinar, rather than showing up and not knowing some things

[0:24:37] Trustee Luckham: that had been covered in a webinar. And unfortunately, that does happen.

[0:24:43] Trustee Luckham: And so that's kind of covered in a couple of recommendations there.

[0:24:48] Trustee Luckham: I still don't understand the recommendations about the secretary.

[0:24:53] Trustee Luckham: I think those roles are covered.

[0:24:56] Trustee Luckham: And I think there's some reflection on how that should be done.

[0:25:01] Trustee Luckham: And maybe there was just simply a misunderstanding of how it is that it does work.

[0:25:05] Trustee Luckham: And I actually sort of believe that that is reasonably effective in the model that we have.

[0:25:11] Trustee Luckham: Um, you know, somebody else did say, well, what about the First Nations piece? And that is clearly above and beyond our ability to change that. But we can influence that. And indeed, there's a movement afoot, just having returned from UBCM, every UBCM I go to, there's more and more First Nations representation there that are elected members of councils.

[0:25:34] Trustee Luckham: And those elected members of councils come from those nations that have treaties, and it's built into the way the legislation is formulated.

[0:25:45] Trustee Luckham: And those areas that don't have treaty nations, where we have a management role or a relationship around them in some fashion, we don't have that.

[0:25:58] Trustee Luckham: And so how is it the question? The big question is, how can we get nations at the table that aren't part of that cumbersome treaty process exists?

[0:26:07] Trustee Luckham: But I think we need to do work in lobbying the government or working with the government to figure out solutions for that, because we will only be better off for it.

[0:26:20] Trustee Luckham: So I do sort of think that there's a bit of a priority there on that one.

[0:26:24] Trustee Luckham: um the advocacy piece you know the conversation about advocacy and coordination um i think that's

[0:26:32] Trustee Luckham: really critically important to determine where it is that we can put our energies and and get the

[0:26:38] Trustee Luckham: most benefits um and maybe advocacy is a different animal than what we've been using um but that

[0:26:46] Trustee Luckham: that conversation is there. Yeah. And, you know, I think, you know, certainly we can always do

[0:26:58] Trustee Luckham: more with the conservancy and, and, but we each have our discrete roles, it seems. So we, you

[0:27:07] Trustee Luckham: know, I think we just need to continue to build this relationship and make that obvious. Certainly

[0:27:11] Trustee Luckham: Certainly the website changes made it more obvious that we were together rather than separate entities.

[0:27:19] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, the compensation question just remains as an important point.

[0:27:26] Trustee Luckham: All trustees, doesn't matter who you are, you're not compensated adequately for the amount of time you're away from your families and the time you spend on the computer doing work and consulting with your communities.

[0:27:37] Trustee Luckham: so I think that really summarizes my thoughts on the recommendations there are a number of things

[0:27:44] Trustee Luckham: that are not in the report which I think that isn't a question that's on the list so to speak

[0:27:49] Trustee Luckham: it

[0:27:50] Trustee Stamford: is I'm wondering if we can just take turns on this because you've gone through a

[0:27:55] Trustee Stamford: couple of the

[0:27:56] Trustee Stamford: questions great okay so

[0:27:58] Trustee Stamford: we're looking at priorities I mean I I just like to comment that I mean

[0:28:03] Trustee Stamford: mean speaking to a different structure altogether and i'm not sure if this is doable but there has

[0:28:08] Trustee Stamford: been some thought that maybe the conservancy is the umbrella organization and that the trust

[0:28:14] Trustee Stamford: is the planning structure within it so those are just questions i'm not sure if that's doable but

[0:28:22] Trustee Stamford: um part of the reason um that the conservancy sits apart is um it it's structurally very easy

[0:28:32] Trustee Stamford: so a lot of the difficulties that we see in trust council with the size the representation

[0:28:39] Trustee Stamford: um is it doesn't occur at the the conservancy level so it's an easier structure to deal with

[0:28:49] Trustee Stamford: and and i'm i wouldn't put too much on that it's just it doesn't have the same big mandate

[0:28:57] Trustee Stamford: it it just does what it does and um you know there's always a capacity issue i think there

[0:29:03] Trustee Stamford: there was a time trustee critchley where we did use the expertise of biologists at the conservancy

[0:29:11] Trustee Stamford: but then that pulled them away from the job of the conservancy and muddied the waters a bit

[0:29:16] Trustee Stamford: so if there's more capacity for more expertise at that level then maybe then they could be more

[0:29:23] Trustee Stamford: back to a more referral agency as well for those required reports but then again you know it's that

[0:29:31] Trustee Stamford: capacity each time so we've talked about what is the priorities and then we wanted to get into

[0:29:41] Trustee Stamford: what is achievable and I think trustee Luckin did talk about some more achievable parts of this

[0:29:49] Trustee Stamford: What about other people? What do you think is achievable? Or do you want to go to the unachievable? Is that easier?

[0:29:56] Trustee Stamford: Can I just add a

[0:29:58] Trustee Luckham: touch on the conservancy piece?

[0:30:00] Trustee Luckham: mentioned um because i i have the same inclination let's just say um but what's interesting is i

[0:30:08] Trustee Luckham: think the conservancy is purposefully politically light and that's something we'd have to figure out

[0:30:15] Trustee Luckham: just want to say that

[0:30:16] Voice 6: yeah yeah well i

[0:30:18] Voice 3: think i think that you just raised a point that i've

[0:30:22] Voice 3: raised before is we somehow we have to get the politics out of land use because you know and i

[0:30:28] Voice 3: Now, I know that's a tough one to bite, but frankly, it's what's stymieing us.

[0:30:33] Voice 3: It's what's killing us, because we go to get scientific data, and then we choose what we're prepared to accept or not accept, depending on whether it inconveniences us or impacts our lifestyle.

[0:30:46] Voice 3: And that just shouldn't be a question.

[0:30:49] Voice 3: And I applaud the Conservancy.

[0:30:52] Voice 3: They're the good cop.

[0:30:53] Voice 3: We're the bad cop.

[0:30:54] Voice 3: And they have the expertise and the knowledge.

[0:30:57] Voice 3: and i'm still astounded that the conservancy did not have a greater role in establishing our policy

[0:31:03] Voice 3: statement and i i just don't get it but in any case um i the politics is what's killing us and i

[0:31:11] Voice 3: i fear it's it's going to get worse um i hope not but

[0:31:16] Voice 6: we'll find out so i don't know if one if

[0:31:24] Trustee Stamford: If anyone wants to add into, I think, Peter, you sort of really described the more achievable aspects of the report.

[0:31:37] Trustee Stamford: And I felt the same, pretty much the same way.

[0:31:42] Trustee Stamford: But I also wanted to point out we are doing a lot of this stuff.

[0:31:46] Trustee Stamford: And I think for me, that was one of the frustrations with the way the report was laid out, that it didn't acknowledge how much we are doing.

[0:31:54] Trustee Stamford: of of the recommendations and it may maybe it just wasn't obvious or for some reason they missed that

[0:32:02] Trustee Stamford: but there are so many things that we have been working on considering how how challenging the

[0:32:10] Trustee Stamford: last this term has been we've done a heck of a lot and we are moving in the right direction

[0:32:17] Trustee Stamford: so um i mean i don't know what other people think about that um but i i do i do find there

[0:32:26] Trustee Stamford: was a few things that i did not understand how they were going to be achieved and although i

[0:32:31] Trustee Stamford: agree i i think first nations is and the greater bc representation that they suggested is really

[0:32:39] Trustee Stamford: important um i just we can't do that ourselves that absolutely has to come within um uh provincial

[0:32:48] Trustee Stamford: acknowledgement of possible restructuring in whatever way it can it can happen so those that

[0:32:54] Trustee Stamford: was the big one that I felt was unachievable and I also did not understand the role of the

[0:33:01] Trustee Stamford: secretary because I felt that we have we have that position already so microphone

[0:33:12] Trustee Luckham: David yeah

[0:33:13] Voice 2: I'm just going to time check it's I got about 10 minutes to go I'm going to put

[0:33:17] Voice 2: the questions back

[0:33:17] Voice 2: up on the screen just to help um you to figure out what you'd like to report back to the larger group

[0:33:23] Voice 2: and who's going to do the report back i

[0:33:30] Voice 5: think that's kate stanford because she's done an

[0:33:34] Voice 5: excellent job facilitating here i'm tired of talking okay

[0:33:41] Voice 2: the questions are back up if you

[0:33:43] Voice 2: wanted to just review and uh to see if you want to help kate uh do we use format which we'd like

[0:33:50] Voice 2: report back to the larger group so what you find is not working

[0:33:53] Voice 2: yeah

[0:33:55] Voice 3: what i think could be

[0:33:58] Voice 3: achievable but i'm not sure it ever will be and that is a a firm consensus on on the mandate and

[0:34:04] Voice 3: exactly what we're doing and what we what we're responsible for um and we've had plenty of

[0:34:10] Voice 3: discussions uh in council and uh it goes one way but i'm not sure that that's been a consensus

[0:34:16] Voice 3: The other thing I think that is achievable is to redefine the role of the chair because I have the utmost empathy for Peter and the amount of work that he has to do.

[0:34:29] Voice 3: And I've raised the issue that maybe what we could do is hire a chair for the meetings to take that bit of load right off his back so that he doesn't have to deal so much with council issues.

[0:34:43] Voice 3: issues um i also think that um perhaps he should be relieved of having to chair local trust

[0:34:50] Voice 3: committees because that just adds on to his work um but i i think uh i think at this moment the

[0:34:59] Voice 3: the responsibilities and the workload on the chair um are simply too well i certainly wouldn't want

[0:35:06] Voice 3: want to take it on and i but

[0:35:07] Voice 6: it's so much fun

[0:35:08] Voice 3: yeah i hear you brother what

[0:35:13] Trustee Stamford: about the i one of

[0:35:14] Trustee Stamford: the recommendations of the ideas what's was to um have the chair popularly elected throughout the

[0:35:21] Trustee Stamford: trust area is that a realistic suggestion

[0:35:25] Voice 5: i don't think that's realistic i

[0:35:28] Trustee Busheikin: don't think that's a good

[0:35:29] Trustee Busheikin: idea at all this is too hard for people to know we don't have parties and we shouldn't be in a way

[0:35:35] Trustee Busheikin: It shouldn't be, like the chair does, theoretically, and I think in practice fairly much, the chair has a job to do, but the chair doesn't have extra powers to guide the trust direction and policy.

[0:35:53] Trustee Busheikin: It's a job, like it's a lot of work, you do a lot of coordinating, you chair meetings, but it isn't a political appointment in the way a minister is.

[0:36:04] Trustee Busheikin: And even then, they do what's asked of them. But I also just think it's, people will just go by whatever's posted on Facebook. It just, I don't think it makes sense. And I like that, you know, I know it's an imperfect process, but at least we get to elect our own chair and feel responsible for that.

[0:36:26] Trustee Busheikin: So I don't really think that's a good idea. And I will say also just with the consensus, my mentions the beginning, I don't think consensus is achievable on the mandate. And I really, as I said, I think that's okay. And I think what we need to do is get over the fact that we expect that because it just, I don't know, it's like we just get stuck on that.

[0:36:51] Trustee Busheikin: And it creates just a lot of, yeah, wasted time, I think.

[0:36:57] Trustee Busheikin: You can't force people to think the same.

[0:37:01] Trustee Busheikin: People elect who they elect.

[0:37:03] Trustee Busheikin: And a lot of times it comes down to words.

[0:37:05] Trustee Busheikin: Like, you know, what does it mean to say the environment is the most important thing?

[0:37:12] Trustee Busheikin: Like, to me, if we enshrined that, that would mean we would never allow any human use.

[0:37:19] Trustee Busheikin: Like, that's how I see it.

[0:37:20] Trustee Busheikin: we would all leave because everything we do, every footstep we take is harming the environment.

[0:37:26] Trustee Busheikin: So I just interpret that phrase differently. But would I vote the same as someone who loves that

[0:37:31] Trustee Busheikin: phrase on certain issues? Maybe I would. And it's a bottomless pit of discussion. And it becomes to

[0:37:40] Trustee Busheikin: me very theoretical. And I think that the policy statement is really where that gets defined. So

[0:37:49] Trustee Busheikin: So maybe we need to highlight the policy statement a lot more.

[0:37:52] Trustee Busheikin: And this is somewhere in that document that is about following our own policies and updating

[0:37:59] Trustee Busheikin: our policy statement regularly, which I think we're going to do now.

[0:38:03] Trustee Busheikin: And I think that's been a major, major gap in the past.

[0:38:07] Trustee Busheikin: And maybe as part of what the problem is now is that the policy statement is where the

[0:38:11] Trustee Busheikin: rubber hits the road.

[0:38:12] Trustee Busheikin: It's what does this really mean?

[0:38:14] Trustee Busheikin: It's no longer just words.

[0:38:15] Trustee Busheikin: and we're not going to just argue about ideas

[0:38:18] Trustee Busheikin: that we don't even read words the same way about them.

[0:38:22] Trustee Busheikin: Sorry, that wasn't a sentence, but so, yeah.

[0:38:26] Trustee Busheikin: And then just the other not achievable,

[0:38:28] Trustee Busheikin: yeah, I think the secretary piece,

[0:38:31] Trustee Busheikin: like I could see a bigger role

[0:38:33] Trustee Busheikin: for the director of legislative services

[0:38:35] Trustee Busheikin: and just, and more training around Robert's rules

[0:38:38] Trustee Busheikin: and in a way the director of legislative services,

[0:38:42] Trustee Busheikin: I think that is a role to kind of be a bit

[0:38:45] Trustee Busheikin: of the bad cop at the meetings when the chair is being pushed by people around process or even when

[0:38:51] Trustee Busheikin: people are overstepping um like policies but also just basics of um uh proper behavior that that

[0:39:00] Trustee Busheikin: could be something that i they would do it's not fun but someone needs to do that i so i do see

[0:39:06] Trustee Busheikin: that but a whole new position just seems wasteful to me

[0:39:11] Trustee Stamford: yeah david uh critchley any last words

[0:39:15] um

[0:39:17] Trustee Critchley: i would i would concur with the last comment about the utility of the secretary

[0:39:23] Trustee Critchley: secretary position corporate secretary um i never really grasped the utility of that the purpose of

[0:39:32] Trustee Critchley: it why would why establishing that would somehow make us a better organization um so yeah i don't

[0:39:43] Trustee Critchley: see the point of that one i i guess i'm open to being persuaded but so far i haven't grasped it

[0:39:50] Trustee Stamford: yeah i i

[0:39:51] Trustee Stamford: looked at it in terms of efficiency we keep talking about these this vague term

[0:39:56] Trustee Stamford: efficiency and all through this there was additional what i considered inefficiencies

[0:40:03] Trustee Stamford: and so that was one of them but anyway go on yeah

[0:40:11] Trustee Critchley: um the the election of

[0:40:14] Trustee Critchley: of um the executive committee and the chair right off the bat is something that troubled me the

[0:40:20] Trustee Critchley: first meeting that the that i attended as it did dan rogers it's funny i met dan because

[0:40:27] Trustee Critchley: we got together and and we we asked is this really necessary and we looked at the rules and

[0:40:34] Trustee Critchley: the regulation and it seemed that it was now i guess the the way around it is you could make

[0:40:40] Trustee Critchley: there's nothing there saying that it's for a four-year term so you could make the election

[0:40:47] Trustee Critchley: for a shorter period of time but then I don't know that that's practical because people if

[0:40:52] Trustee Critchley: they're putting their names forward they want the certainty of you know I've got this job because

[0:40:58] Trustee Critchley: it means I gotta have to give up other things so I don't want to be looking at giving it up

[0:41:02] Trustee Critchley: you know three months from now or six months from now or whenever so I don't know it comes

[0:41:09] Trustee Critchley: How do you get to know the people better?

[0:41:14] Trustee Critchley: So maybe it's that, you know, there should be, or at least a policy recommendation that people standing for those positions do circulate a sort of resume in advance.

[0:41:29] Trustee Critchley: And maybe we also make available the name, the telephone, the contact information for previous trustees who are no longer going to be

[0:41:43] Trustee Critchley: on council, because they would be a resource to say, well, you know, what do you think of this person?

[0:41:49] Trustee Critchley: Not that necessarily everybody's going to be running will have already served a term, but chances are that most of them will.

[0:41:59] Trustee Critchley: David

[0:42:00] Trustee Stamford: I think we have to leave the um yeah we

[0:42:03] Trustee Stamford: have to jump out now um

[0:42:05] Voice 2: yeah we do so you're okay

[0:42:07] Voice 2: yeah I guess

[0:42:10] Trustee Stamford: no I'm not happy but that's okay um and just really quickly trustee Critchley

[0:42:15] Trustee Stamford: um going to the SCRD um or or sorry any regional district they have exactly the same problem

[0:42:23] Trustee Stamford: that they have to elect um committee chairs and the chair and and everyone is is in the same boat

[0:42:31] Trustee Stamford: with that particular issue so yeah

[0:42:33] Voice 2: i never made through the chair the um uh the legislation

[0:42:39] Voice 2: doesn't explicitly state that um the executive committee is elected for the entire term

[0:42:45] Voice 2: but it is definitely implicitly uh and it's interpreted to be that way uh the way the

[0:42:50] Voice 2: legislation is written so um there isn't an option to do anything on an interim and as you said

[0:42:56] Voice 2: there's a practical consideration there too that's one um i had another point but i think i've lost

[0:43:03] Voice 2: it oh yeah that

[0:43:04] Voice 2: the other point is that we've gone to four-year terms now which i think maybe

[0:43:08] Voice 2: magnifies the situation um and as kate louise said all the regional districts have exactly the same

[0:43:15] Voice 2: process i just

[0:43:17] Voice 2: want to say

[0:43:17] Trustee Luckham: before we jump out that this colonial model of governance

[0:43:22] Trustee Luckham: hampers us internally within the islanders trust and externally with the relationships we want to

[0:43:28] Trustee Luckham: have with others yeah it's a time is our intent let's go back to them okay

[0:43:33] Trustee Luckham: so it's log

[0:43:35] Voice 2: out log

[0:43:36] Voice 2: out of here log back into the original meeting thanks everyone thank you everybody thank you

[0:43:41] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[0:43:42] Voice 2: See you back in the main room.