Islands Trust Council regular meeting, October 12, 2022

[0:00:02] Voice 4: or

[0:00:02] Trustee Grove: if you turn your head away from your computer i can't hear you sorry about that um remind me if

[0:00:07] Trustee Grove: that happens again i'll put my earphones in so um this is the last fbc meeting i will be attending

[0:00:15] Trustee Grove: which is a sad thing to say for me anyway um so you have an agenda before you any ads changes

[0:00:22] Trustee Grove: changes, deletes, wish, wants.

[0:00:25] Trustee Grove: Sue Ellen.

[0:00:26] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair.

[0:00:27] Trustee Fast: I'm just wondering if we have a time.

[0:00:31] Trustee Fast: I see public comment period is down there.

[0:00:33] Trustee Fast: And if we have attendees,

[0:00:34] Trustee Fast: is that five minutes or 10 minutes or two minutes?

[0:00:38] Trustee Grove: Per person.

[0:00:41] Trustee Grove: Sorry, five minutes for the person.

[0:00:43] Trustee Grove: For that item.

[0:00:45] Trustee Grove: For that item, it'll be the number

[0:00:47] Voice 4: of public comments

[0:00:49] Trustee Grove: for people who want to comment.

[0:00:51] Trustee Grove: We can't

[0:00:51] Voice 9: hear you, Trustee Grove.

[0:00:53] Voice 9: I guess

[0:00:53] Trustee Grove: I'll have to plug in.

[0:00:54] Trustee Grove: Sorry.

[0:00:56] Trustee Grove: We do not have a schedule.

[0:00:58] Trustee Grove: We've never had an issue.

[0:01:01] Trustee Grove: I don't think we've ever had any public comments, have we?

[0:01:05] Trustee Grove: Do we have

[0:01:06] Voice 13: any members of the public attending?

[0:01:07] Voice 13: I don't see any.

[0:01:08] Trustee Grove: There are none.

[0:01:10] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[0:01:12] Trustee Grove: So thank you very much, Paul.

[0:01:14] Trustee Grove: So that shouldn't be an issue then.

[0:01:18] Trustee Grove: Can

[0:01:19] Voice 1: you pull up the agenda, Nancy?

[0:01:21] Voice 1: We just see your folder.

[0:01:24] Voice 1: oh it says i'm sharing my screen so it looks like it's uh pulling from the wrong screen

[0:01:32] Voice 1: we're just seeing your uh folder so

[0:01:37] Trustee Grove: can everybody hear me now okay

[0:01:40] Voice 4: now okay

[0:01:41] Trustee Grove: so let's uh

[0:01:44] Trustee Grove: move on so but i will uh take it that the agenda is approved thank you now we have a time for

[0:01:50] Trustee Grove: public comments and uh we were just discussing that is there any member of the public there

[0:01:55] Trustee Grove: which is to comment to the FFPC.

[0:01:58] Trustee Grove: It seems there is none.

[0:02:04] Voice 14: There are no members of the public in attendance.

[0:02:08] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[0:02:09] Trustee Grove: And there are no delegations, and there's no correspondence.

[0:02:12] Trustee Grove: Good heavens.

[0:02:12] Trustee Grove: So we have the minutes of our meeting of August 31.

[0:02:18] Trustee Grove: Any comments, changes?

[0:02:21] Trustee Grove: So I'll take it.

[0:02:24] Trustee Grove: We

[0:02:26] Voice 4: can't hear you, Chair.

[0:02:28] Trustee Grove: Well, you should be able to.

[0:02:31] Trustee Grove: This should be working.

[0:02:32] Trustee Grove: anyway um so but thank you for telling me uh so um fbc minutes of october 12th any comments changes

[0:02:42] Trustee Grove: ads deletes hearing none

[0:02:45] Trustee Fast: hang on hang on october 12th is today and um that's interesting

[0:02:50] Voice 4: this is

[0:02:51] Trustee Fast: the idea i think robert will tell us that we're gonna um do an rwm after this meeting when he has

[0:02:59] Trustee Fast: the draft minutes so that by the end of term is that correct robert thank you very much that is

[0:03:04] Voice 14: correct thank you

[0:03:06] Trustee Grove: that makes good sense no resolutions without meeting and there's a

[0:03:12] Trustee Grove: fellow action list at on pages eight to ten julia would you very kindly and by the way welcome back

[0:03:20] Trustee Grove: julia it's good to have you back thank you

[0:03:23] Voice 1: it's good to be back we

[0:03:25] Trustee Grove: have missed you although um

[0:03:26] Trustee Grove: We were well looked after while you were away,

[0:03:29] Voice 1: but

[0:03:30] Trustee Grove: not quite as well as if you were with us.

[0:03:33] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Paul. That is absolutely right. Yeah. So take us through the follow-up action list,

[0:03:41] Trustee Grove: if you would, Julia, please.

[0:03:44] Voice 1: Happy to. I'm pleased to report that every single item on

[0:03:48] Voice 1: the follow-up action list is marked off as completed. That's thanks to the fact that we

[0:03:53] Voice 1: decided not to cancel today's meeting and instead plow ahead with some of the final policy changes.

[0:03:58] Voice 1: There is one item on the list actually still in progress. That's the responsibility area for our

[0:04:03] Voice 1: CAO, Russ Hotson-Piller. It's related to cost recovery options on building permit review.

[0:04:09] Voice 1: So I don't have an update on that project at this juncture. I would look to Director Cermak to see

[0:04:16] Voice 1: if he's got any update that the committee wishes to hear about.

[0:04:23] Voice 16: Please go ahead.

[0:04:24] Voice 16: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have no direct update and I won't speak on behalf of the CAO other than to

[0:04:30] Voice 16: say he has had communications with the various uh regional districts and he hasn't progressed beyond

[0:04:39] Voice 16: finding a suitable solution to present to trust council fbc or any other committee regarding how

[0:04:44] Voice 16: to recover those costs but he is working and having those conversations to my understanding

[0:04:51] Trustee Grove: thank you any other comments julia uh

[0:04:57] Voice 1: nothing else to report on the follow-up action list but

[0:04:59] Voice 1: but I can happily take questions if there are any.

[0:05:02] Trustee Grove: Are there any questions?

[0:05:05] Trustee Grove: I see none.

[0:05:06] Trustee Grove: I see happy, smiley faces, so that's good.

[0:05:10] Voice 4: I don't understand, Peter.

[0:05:14] Voice 4: Can

[0:05:15] Voice 1: you hear your chair?

[0:05:15] Voice 1: Yeah,

[0:05:16] Voice 4: but my mom is screaming at me.

[0:05:20] Voice 1: We've lost your

[0:05:21] Voice 1: audio again, Peter.

[0:05:24] Trustee Grove: I don't understand what's going on, but it's amazing.

[0:05:27] Voice 1: I think you need to speak directly to the computer,

[0:05:30] Voice 1: otherwise it doesn't catch your audio.

[0:05:32] Trustee Rogers: Same

[0:05:33] Trustee Grove: thing happened to me

[0:05:33] Trustee Rogers: this morning, Peter,

[0:05:34] Trustee Grove: as even with a

[0:05:36] Trustee Rogers: headset it wasn't working i

[0:05:37] Trustee Grove: thought the little white thing on the side

[0:05:39] Trustee Grove: of the headset was meant to be a mic it is but and the fact that it's all filled with

[0:05:44] Trustee Grove: chewing gum probably doesn't help anyway i maybe i'll take this headset off altogether

[0:05:50] Trustee Grove: anyway just let me know again if i i if i wander off well um so uh julia

[0:06:04] Trustee Grove: you're wondering already unplug okay can you hear me now yes okay

[0:06:13] Trustee Grove: i will put this to music

[0:06:15] Trustee Grove: um 7.1 julia

[0:06:19] Trustee Grove: but you're

[0:06:22] Trustee Luckham: gonna have to speak directly to the computer hello

[0:06:26] Trustee Grove: computer i'm speaking directly to

[0:06:28] Trustee Grove: you now. Smart enough and pay attention. There's a little hole up there, isn't there? I'm speaking

[0:06:35] Trustee Grove: to the little hole. So we've

[0:06:49] Voice 1: lost your audio again, Peter, but I'm going to make the bold

[0:06:52] Voice 1: assumption that you're moving us to the next agenda item, which is the budget consultation

[0:06:58] Voice 1: and director freighter is going to be walking us through those materials today and nancy we still

[0:07:04] Voice 1: don't see the agenda on your screen so if you can just move the agenda over to your other screen we

[0:07:09] Voice 1: should be able to see it good

[0:07:16] Voice 9: morning financial planning committee this item is on your agenda

[0:07:19] Voice 9: today it's the public consultation materials that we'll use to publicize the opportunity for

[0:07:26] Voice 9: folks to comment on the draft budget what's not here today is the survey we'll bring that back

[0:07:31] Voice 9: to the next meeting of financial planning committee once we have a bit more information

[0:07:34] Voice 9: about the draft budget itself to inform some of the questions and charts and so on.

[0:07:40] Voice 9: So what you have today is the project charter you approved at your last meeting,

[0:07:43] Voice 9: a draft advertising plan, a sample newspaper advertisement, and a draft editorial calendar

[0:07:49] Voice 9: for social media posts. So we're just essentially looking for your feedback around the promotion

[0:07:54] Voice 9: that we do of this engagement opportunity and any thoughts or advice you'd like to give to us

[0:07:59] Voice 9: or the next um fpc i'll leave it at that and happy to take questions there's a mo and i'll just note

[0:08:07] Voice 9: there's a motion at the top of the rfd around endorsing the materials should you be content

[0:08:11] Voice 9: with them

[0:08:13] Trustee Grove: any comments from anybody as to uh tim peterson and then suelen fast no

[0:08:22] Voice 3: yeah thank you um

[0:08:24] Voice 3: So the draft advertising plan on page 14 references on the skeety references are Island Times monthly.

[0:08:35] Voice 3: I just wanted to let the director know that there is another paper, which is more widely read, that has actually shifted management and is now sort of not read by as many people.

[0:08:56] Voice 3: And I'm happy to just go ahead and send you an email with the address of the other paper.

[0:09:01] Voice 9: That'd be fantastic. Thank you. And we'll update all of our engagement bits around that. Thank you.

[0:09:11] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to bring up a couple of ideas.

[0:09:17] Trustee Fast: And this is based on the misunderstandings I'm seeing on Bowen Island and the way I need to keep making the distinction between the different arms of the Islands Trust for Bowen Islanders.

[0:09:34] Trustee Fast: um as you know uh bowen island municipality uh contributes to the biodiversity arm which is the

[0:09:42] Trustee Fast: islands trust conservancy and to the um federation arm which is trust council and to a little bit of

[0:09:49] Trustee Fast: administration that serves everybody but it does not contribute to the biggest part um of the

[0:09:55] Trustee Fast: islands trust which is local planning that some citizens on some islands uh tend to get concerned

[0:10:01] Trustee Fast: concerned about anyway that's I just wanted to flag the more distinctions that you can make

[0:10:07] Trustee Fast: between uh the arms the federation and the uh biodiversity arms islands trust conservancy and

[0:10:17] Trustee Fast: the uh trust council arms the better um there's also confusion among um um report the uh governance

[0:10:28] Trustee Fast: review report. People assume that that's for the whole trust. They don't realize that the

[0:10:33] Trustee Fast: biodiversity arm was specifically included. Those kinds of things will be helped if you can

[0:10:39] Trustee Fast: keep the distinction between those two. Not to belabor that, sorry about that, but it's just

[0:10:46] Trustee Fast: helpful because otherwise people lump the trust together and they assume that all complaints

[0:10:53] Trustee Fast: really that they read online or whatever relate to the same things um if there's a way to uh

[0:11:00] Trustee Fast: include sources of revenue in the um uh survey or budget materials that would be great otherwise

[0:11:08] Trustee Fast: it's all about costs and it never uh of course they ask the question well how many staff do you

[0:11:13] Trustee Fast: have gosh what do they all do and um uh honest questions because they um are confused about the

[0:11:21] Trustee Fast: the work and uh on bowen and um but if the uh provincial funding could be separated out from

[0:11:28] Trustee Fast: the grant funding i think it was lumped in last time and uh cost recovery i think would be good

[0:11:33] Trustee Fast: to list separately um as well and then um whatever we can do about conveying a balance sheet approach

[0:11:42] Trustee Fast: like adding we we only these budgets only show expenses and uh but the values of um the nature

[0:11:51] Trustee Fast: Nature reserves. I don't know how we could value the covenants, but the value of all the donations that go into the Analyst Trust Conservancy, the value of ecosystem services, even if it's ballpark kinds of things regarding fresh, clean, fresh water and the wildlife and that draws tourism.

[0:12:10] Trustee Fast: Charism, the value of the advocacy work, the education work, climate action is starting to be costed out in terms of the costs of not doing it.

[0:12:20] Trustee Fast: Anyway, any of those kinds of things. That's my suggestions. Thank you.

[0:12:24] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[0:12:26] Trustee Grove: Does that make sense?

[0:12:28] Voice 9: Yeah, noted. We'll achieve what we can.

[0:12:31] Trustee Grove: Thank you. And Laura Bushegan.

[0:12:35] Trustee Grove: Yes.

[0:12:38] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you. And this is, I will be brief, but this is also just a sort of a reminder or something to bear in mind that in past years we've seen a lot of different perceptions of what, of the weight that we give public consultation with some people feeling that if, you know, several hundred people answer a certain way,

[0:13:04] Trustee Busheikin: um that then democracy means we have to listen to them or not um and um i think that caused

[0:13:12] Trustee Busheikin: consternation both within trust council and within the public so if somewhere there could be a bit of

[0:13:21] Trustee Busheikin: reminder that we take public consultation uh seriously within a bigger context of considerations

[0:13:29] Trustee Busheikin: considerations, and that there may be some opportunity to discuss that at Council and

[0:13:35] Trustee Busheikin: to get some clarity, I would say even ahead of time, about how much, how we consider the

[0:13:46] Trustee Busheikin: public consultation and just move that understanding forward.

[0:13:52] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[0:13:55] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[0:13:55] Trustee Grove: I've got Trustee Rogers, followed by Trustee Luckham, and then Stanford.

[0:14:02] Trustee Grove: Thanks.

[0:14:02] Trustee Grove: Just quickly,

[0:14:03] Trustee Rogers: on page 16, which is the costing of the advertising, I just was curious as

[0:14:13] Trustee Rogers: to why there was a, as you go down, you see Galliano has a specific charge for the driftwood,

[0:14:21] Trustee Rogers: whereas main and north and south pender do not and my understanding was because i just wondered why

[0:14:27] Trustee Rogers: there was a specific charge for the driftwood for galliano if you know the answer to that

[0:14:32] Trustee Rogers: given that the explanation at the bottom was that the driftwood uh goes out to galliano

[0:14:38] Trustee Rogers: main salt spring saturn and i assumed that the cost would then be included there too

[0:14:43] Trustee Rogers: um you can figure that out for yourself so my second question is is uh you're asking us to

[0:14:49] Trustee Rogers: approve the materials the materials really are just on page 17. it's it's the ad i gather is

[0:14:56] Trustee Rogers: that all we're being asked to approve done then and then the editorial calendar um and will

[0:15:02] Trustee Rogers: somewhere in there be built some at least some basic information about what the once the budget

[0:15:08] Trustee Rogers: is sort of given first looked by trust council uh what the budget actually looks like because

[0:15:14] Trustee Rogers: it doesn't it's not obvious to me where that would be um

[0:15:18] Voice 9: so yeah so a couple questions there yes

[0:15:20] Voice 9: the driftwood does cover all those so as much as it was put in the row for galliano i'll fix that

[0:15:25] Voice 9: for next time that it represents that whole um suite of islands um for the advertising um yes

[0:15:31] Voice 9: we're asking you to sort of endorse the plan this is how we'll spend the budget is in this

[0:15:36] Voice 9: advertising manner um we're intending to do an ad that looks something like the one proposed on page

[0:15:41] Voice 9: 17. um we will be issuing a news release once there is a draft budget approved by council that

[0:15:47] Voice 9: It gives the nuts and bolts of the basic numbers.

[0:15:49] Voice 9: And then the approach that we've taken in recent years,

[0:15:51] Voice 9: which has seen some level of success

[0:15:53] Voice 9: is to include the detail within the survey itself.

[0:15:56] Voice 9: So people read the detail of the survey,

[0:15:58] Voice 9: see it in context of prior years,

[0:16:00] Voice 9: and then are given an opportunity to comment.

[0:16:03] Voice 9: So that's the approach we're proposing,

[0:16:04] Voice 9: which is the one we've done in recent years,

[0:16:06] Voice 9: which has generally, I think,

[0:16:08] Voice 9: led to fairly informed results.

[0:16:09] Voice 9: We found that people are sticking with the survey

[0:16:11] Voice 9: despite the fact that it's longer,

[0:16:14] Voice 9: are following it through to completion.

[0:16:15] Trustee Rogers: No, I know

[0:16:16] Trustee Rogers: the detail, but is there not

[0:16:17] Trustee Rogers: even like a pie chart or something simple that says our proposed

[0:16:21] Trustee Rogers: budget is $9 million or whatever it happens to be this year?

[0:16:26] Voice 9: You're thinking like that in the advertising itself or within, we

[0:16:29] Voice 9: could do that also within the news release that we put out.

[0:16:33] Voice 9: Certainly we could provide a graphic if that's the wish of the committee within the advertising.

[0:16:37] Voice 9: But because it's a draft budget, I also caution making it seem to, that's the challenge, right?

[0:16:44] Voice 9: is presenting it as too baked in stone.

[0:16:46] Voice 9: But if that's the wish of the committee to present like a pie chart

[0:16:48] Voice 9: or a graphic about the numbers, we can do that rather than typically

[0:16:52] Voice 9: what we do is just advertise the engagement opportunity itself,

[0:16:56] Voice 9: which is what I would recommend is to put out just the opportunity

[0:16:59] Voice 9: to engage and then have people come

[0:17:01] Voice 4: look for the information.

[0:17:11] Voice 4: Did I answer?

[0:17:12] Trustee Grove: Okay.

[0:17:14] Trustee Grove: Peter Luckham.

[0:17:16] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[0:17:17] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, Chair.

[0:17:19] Trustee Luckham: I just wanted to speak to the charter itself.

[0:17:23] Trustee Luckham: myself and um it may be that i'm not in the right place but i'm not sure where else to make these

[0:17:30] Trustee Luckham: remarks and i might be a little sensitive with respect to uh the email that we received which

[0:17:37] Trustee Luckham: um i've forwarded um to i think yourself there claire um with respect to not having the opportunity

[0:17:46] Trustee Luckham: to have a draft budget earlier on rather than later on, and I certainly understand the reasons

[0:17:53] Trustee Luckham: and the why that this scenario is unfolding as it is. However, in the charter, I just note that

[0:18:00] Trustee Luckham: it never actually references a draft budget until we get to the December 6th meeting, but obviously,

[0:18:09] Trustee Luckham: correct me if I'm wrong, a draft budget needs to be approved by FPC at some point, and the only

[0:18:16] Trustee Luckham: thing in those on the work plan overview is the area that I focused on. It says draft engagement

[0:18:22] Trustee Luckham: materials and engagement a couple of times there on October 12th and October 30th, but at no point

[0:18:28] Trustee Luckham: is there actually a draft budget presented or created by FPC. So just, I think that needs to

[0:18:35] Trustee Luckham: be clear how that particular draft ends up at the trust council table.

[0:18:41] Trustee Luckham: more.

[0:18:44] Voice 9: So I mean I can speak to what I as I understand it right now is that there will be

[0:18:50] Voice 9: a draft budget presented to executive committee and if the FPC in the week prior to trust council

[0:18:55] Voice 9: will have an opportunity to provide recommendations and commentary that will be forwarded to council

[0:19:00] Voice 9: for consideration there'll be a decent amount of time allocated at trust council for the budget

[0:19:05] Voice 9: deliberation and we would then proceed as normal after the December council because we will have

[0:19:12] Voice 9: a draft to then base the engagement materials around we'll return the draft survey to fpc for

[0:19:17] Voice 9: comment um prior to putting it out that's my understanding that perhaps some director mobs

[0:19:22] Voice 9: can correct anything but from our engagement perspective um there's not much changing from

[0:19:28] Voice 9: how we've operated in prior years no

[0:19:30] Trustee Luckham: it's just we've not identified when that event is on the

[0:19:35] Trustee Luckham: project charter okay

[0:19:36] Voice 9: we haven't amended the charter to reflect the new dates yes

[0:19:38] Voice 9: Yes, agreed.

[0:19:39] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[0:19:42] Voice 13: Old Brent.

[0:19:44] Voice 13: Hi, I'd like to know the reasons

[0:19:45] Voice 13: why we don't have a draft budget in front of us.

[0:19:48] Voice 13: You've alluded to the, you know the reasons, Peter,

[0:19:52] Voice 13: and I don't.

[0:19:52] Voice 13: So could you please let me know what the reasons are?

[0:19:56] Voice 13: Thanks.

[0:19:56] Voice 13: Julia, could you let us know?

[0:19:58] Voice 13: Could you bring us up to date?

[0:20:00] Voice 1: Sure, I can provide a summary.

[0:20:02] Voice 1: So past practice in election years

[0:20:05] Voice 1: has been to actually cancel the October FPC meeting.

[0:20:08] Voice 1: There's a recognition that any review of the budget and subsequent changes that are made by staff is not necessarily an efficient use of staff time, because an incoming FPC may not share the same views and give different direction.

[0:20:23] Voice 1: So, this year we moved ahead with the meeting anyway as there was a few policy pieces that made sense for this term FPC to wrap up.

[0:20:31] Voice 1: but we stayed with the historical trend of not bringing a budget forward to create the efficiency

[0:20:37] Voice 1: for staff time and to give the new FPC a chance to share their views right off the bat. The budget

[0:20:44] Voice 1: will be presented or will be prepared in November and we'll be going forward to the new FPC at that

[0:20:50] Voice 1: point before it goes to Trust Council in December.

[0:20:52] Voice 13: So a further question if I may is so I understand

[0:20:56] Voice 13: and EC has made a number of recommendations to the budget.

[0:20:59] Voice 13: Why was that seems to be outside what you just discussed?

[0:21:03] Voice 13: That doesn't seem to make sense.

[0:21:05] Voice 13: You know, we're not looking at it as FPC,

[0:21:07] Voice 13: but EC seems to be making changes

[0:21:10] Voice 13: to the recommendations to the budget.

[0:21:13] Voice 4: No, that's wrong.

[0:21:14] Voice 13: That's not the case.

[0:21:16] Voice 13: Okay, good.

[0:21:17] Trustee Rogers: I just need clarification.

[0:21:18] Trustee Rogers: No, we did what all the committees do,

[0:21:20] Trustee Rogers: which is that we go through and make asks

[0:21:23] Trustee Rogers: asks just like tpc rpc and everybody else has done uh and all the ltcs are doing are making

[0:21:30] Trustee Rogers: asks so we we've addressed our own set of suite of of asks but we haven't addressed the budget as a

[0:21:38] Trustee Rogers: whole thank

[0:21:40] Trustee Grove: you for answering that uh dan um uh peter luckham then sue ellen fast oh

[0:21:45] Trustee Luckham: sorry i just

[0:21:46] Trustee Luckham: haven't dropped my hand but director freighter might want to summarize the entire process of

[0:21:51] Trustee Luckham: of LTC submitting business cases as well as committees?

[0:21:54] Voice 9: Yeah, so all committees that have a work program,

[0:21:58] Voice 9: FPC had projects that needed funding.

[0:22:00] Voice 9: FPC could certainly also bring forward a business case

[0:22:03] Voice 9: for something that was required.

[0:22:05] Voice 9: I don't think there's anything in the hopper this year.

[0:22:07] Voice 9: So all committees bring forward business cases.

[0:22:09] Voice 9: We prepared a briefing in the last few years,

[0:22:12] Voice 9: we've certainly been providing with executive committee

[0:22:14] Voice 9: with more business cases and more rationale.

[0:22:17] Voice 9: Certainly there were things that were in prior years,

[0:22:19] Voice 9: just staff added to the budget

[0:22:21] Voice 9: with no real political scrutiny until it reached FPC.

[0:22:24] Voice 9: The thought was we would want more political direction

[0:22:27] Voice 9: around some of those items

[0:22:27] Voice 9: and have prepared in recent years

[0:22:29] Voice 9: a briefing to FPC around those items

[0:22:31] Voice 9: to get political endorsement of items heading to the budget.

[0:22:35] Voice 9: And certainly that was the rationale

[0:22:37] Voice 9: for EC being provided with the briefing that it was.

[0:22:42] Voice 9: So happy to take any questions around that.

[0:22:44] Voice 9: We have now feedback from all committees

[0:22:46] Voice 9: that are informing the development of the draft budget.

[0:22:50] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Sue Ellen.

[0:22:51] Trustee Grove: Carolyn, and then Kate Louise.

[0:22:54] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[0:22:55] Trustee Fast: This isn't a question for Claire.

[0:22:56] Trustee Fast: It's just to note that I, into the chat,

[0:22:59] Trustee Fast: I put an example of a pie chart that I was looking at

[0:23:02] Trustee Fast: that might be general enough and useful enough

[0:23:06] Trustee Fast: to distinguish between the different parts of the budget,

[0:23:11] Trustee Fast: at least so that Islands Trust Conservancy biodiversity

[0:23:16] Trustee Fast: was more visible,

[0:23:17] Trustee Fast: and that Bowen Island Municipality

[0:23:22] Trustee Fast: would be able to understand the big chunk

[0:23:24] Trustee Fast: that they weren't contributing to.

[0:23:26] Trustee Fast: But I thought it might be helpful to people.

[0:23:28] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[0:23:29] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[0:23:32] Trustee Grove: Kate Louise.

[0:23:34] Trustee Stamford: Just a comment more than anything

[0:23:35] Trustee Stamford: is a reminder to everyone

[0:23:37] Trustee Stamford: that we don't have a communications staff

[0:23:40] Trustee Stamford: and everything that's going to be coming out

[0:23:44] Trustee Stamford: of this very critical communications police

[0:23:46] Trustee Stamford: will be done with the staff we have now um claire julia um and probably a bit of help that they can

[0:23:57] Trustee Stamford: get so if we can just keep this as simple and concise um as possible then we have a better

[0:24:04] Trustee Stamford: chance of getting out on time and have a clear message but it is critically important and i'm

[0:24:10] Trustee Stamford: I'm really shocked that we still don't have

[0:24:14] Trustee Stamford: communication staff to support us in this project.

[0:24:19] Trustee Grove: Thank you for your comments.

[0:24:22] Voice 9: If I might, I'm happy to report

[0:24:23] Voice 9: Vicky Swan is hoping to return to us on October 30th.

[0:24:27] Voice 9: So we're a few weeks away for returning.

[0:24:31] Trustee Grove: Good.

[0:24:33] Trustee Grove: Okay, we have a motion at 7.2,

[0:24:35] Trustee Grove: if somebody would like to make that.

[0:24:45] Trustee Fast: I move that financial planning committee approve the 2023-24 budget consult public

[0:24:52] Trustee Fast: consultation materials as

[0:24:55] Trustee Grove: amended draft

[0:24:56] Trustee Fast: materials as amended thank

[0:24:58] Trustee Grove: you is it seconded by Laura

[0:25:00] Trustee Grove: Bushekin any comments any further discussion on this all those in favor either electronic or

[0:25:12] Trustee Grove: manual thank you contrary hands down first of all lodgers are you contrary no no contrary so that

[0:25:29] Trustee Grove: carries thank you very much thank you let us thank you uh very much there uh let us turn to um 7.3

[0:25:38] Trustee Grove: reserves and surplus julia mobs over

[0:25:43] Voice 1: to me uh okay thanks mr chair so fpc has done a lot of work uh

[0:25:48] Voice 1: this term over the reserves and surplus beginning as far back as April 2020 and continuing all the

[0:25:55] Voice 1: way through to the start of this year in February there were policy amendments that came to financial

[0:25:59] Voice 1: planning committee I believe they were received as a late item and so the committee decided to

[0:26:04] Voice 1: defer that item to a later meeting unfortunately those amendments were not subsequently brought

[0:26:09] Voice 1: back to the committee and so we wanted to bring them back to this final meeting of this FPC so

[0:26:15] Voice 1: that we could make sure any recommendations coming from the significant work that the

[0:26:18] Voice 1: committee has done over the term can be incorporated and sent forward to new council

[0:26:23] Voice 1: for consideration. So I did include a summary timeline of the work that FPC's completed over

[0:26:28] Voice 1: this term in the report and I also attached a couple of the previous reports that FPC reviewed

[0:26:35] Voice 1: just as a memory refresher. Policy amendment review begins on page 23 of the agenda. I'll

[0:26:45] Voice 1: In Section A, we see some additions to the definition section, nothing of great significance,

[0:26:50] Voice 1: just a few additions to help readers understand what accumulated surplus is versus annual surplus.

[0:26:56] Voice 1: There's some revised wording to the General Revenue Surplus Fund, but no change to its actual meaning.

[0:27:01] Voice 1: And of course, we continue to describe what a reserve fund is to help readers in their understanding.

[0:27:07] Voice 1: Section B moves into the policy itself.

[0:27:10] Voice 1: And again, here we mainly see updates to wording for clarity, with the exception of Section 3.4.

[0:27:18] Voice 1: Section 3.4 speaks to the minimum balance to be held in the General Revenue Reserve Fund.

[0:27:23] Voice 1: And of course, Trust Council gave direction for the policy to be amended from 25% of operating expenses down to 20% of operating expenses.

[0:27:30] Voice 1: I did note the policy in this agenda erroneously omits the word operating expenditures.

[0:27:36] Voice 1: So it simply says the minimum balance to be maintained in the General Revenue Surplus Fund is 20% of planned expenditures.

[0:27:45] Voice 1: It should be planned operating expenditures, and so staff will make that amendment.

[0:27:49] Voice 1: I wanted to highlight that error there.

[0:27:53] Voice 1: Section 4, there's a small change to this section on specific reserve funds.

[0:27:58] Voice 1: So the original policy indicated that reserve funds could be created at the recommendation of the CAO.

[0:28:04] Voice 1: The CAO is actually considered the Deputy Treasurer at Islands Trust with my position

[0:28:08] Voice 1: being considered the Treasurer. So it only made sense that either one of us could be the person

[0:28:14] Voice 1: to recommend with FPC approving. So that's just a minor change there. One of the key areas I wanted

[0:28:20] Voice 1: to point out that remains unchanged is backtracking a little bit to section 3.2. And that's the

[0:28:27] Voice 1: section that guides the use of surplus funds at Islands Trust. So currently the policy gives a

[0:28:33] Voice 1: fairly broad range of uses for the Islands Trust surplus. There has historically been some

[0:28:38] Voice 1: conversation around potentially restricting the use of surplus. If that is something that FPC

[0:28:44] Voice 1: wishes to recommend to Council, staff can certainly incorporate language to further restrict

[0:28:48] Voice 1: surplus use. One caution is that if the use of surplus is restricted too much, you could end up

[0:28:55] Voice 1: in a situation where you have a large surplus balance that you're unable to effectively use

[0:29:00] Voice 1: because policy restricts it so if there is going to be further restrictions on

[0:29:05] Voice 1: the use of surplus I'd recommend including language in the policy around

[0:29:08] Voice 1: when it might be appropriate to step outside of of that so there's no other

[0:29:14] Voice 1: significant changes but I'm happy to take questions or comments from the

[0:29:17] Voice 1: committee Peter

[0:29:18] Trustee Grove: Luckum you're muted Peter no

[0:29:24] Trustee Luckham: thank you chair and thank you

[0:29:27] Trustee Luckham: director mobs it's I'll just remark that it's really great to see you back on

[0:29:32] Trustee Luckham: on the screen here and looking after us so incredibly well as you do. This is a good

[0:29:42] Trustee Luckham: piece of work that you've got here. I just have one question around legal, because of this,

[0:29:48] Trustee Luckham: and correct me if I'm wrong, this policy is intended to replace 6.51, is intended to replace

[0:29:54] Trustee Luckham: 6.52 and 6.53, where legal reserves were identified as a separate.

[0:30:00] Trustee Luckham: item. That isn't really raised here. And my assumption is that that's included in

[0:30:07] Trustee Luckham: general revenue surplus. And certainly there's budget allocated for legal work. And previously,

[0:30:16] Trustee Luckham: the surplus was identified to be used for legal. And so I'm just wondering, unless I've missed it,

[0:30:25] Trustee Luckham: where that is captured in this, and what mechanisms are in place to ensure that bylaw enforcement has the opportunity to access these surplus funds when they find that there's more monies required.

[0:30:44] Trustee Luckham: required?

[0:30:49] Voice 1: Yeah, so I think I'm not aware of the legal policy that this is replacing. Certainly

[0:30:56] Voice 1: in this policy amendment, that wasn't something that was looked at. Perhaps in previous amendments,

[0:31:01] Voice 1: that was something that took place. Right now, our surplus funds can be used to cover

[0:31:06] Voice 1: extraordinary legal costs. So that's section 3.2 of the policy. It still allows for surplus funds

[0:31:12] Voice 1: to be used for significant and or unanticipated general expenditures so unanticipated significant

[0:31:20] Voice 1: legal costs I would argue would fall into that category if there's not sufficient

[0:31:26] Voice 1: budget for such legal costs in the approved budget and an additional draw from surplus is required

[0:31:32] Voice 1: that would follow trust council's budget adjustment policy and that would look at you know

[0:31:39] Voice 1: know the magnitude of the additional funds that are needed could we find additional funding already

[0:31:43] Voice 1: in the budget elsewhere and may require trust council approval depending on the magnitude and

[0:31:48] Voice 1: where the funds are coming from so I think the the opportunity to use surplus funds for

[0:31:54] Voice 1: significant legal costs is still built into the policy.

[0:31:58] Trustee Luckham: Okay so if I might just a follow-up chair

[0:32:00] Trustee Luckham: and so you're concurring then the general revenue surplus includes legal and I guess I just wonder

[0:32:09] Trustee Luckham: whether or not that's clear enough for everybody to understand that that is the case and that that

[0:32:14] Trustee Luckham: is spelled out somewhere else in order to be sure that we're not setting ourselves up in a trap of

[0:32:21] Trustee Luckham: some kind.

[0:32:24] Voice 1: Yeah, we don't have a specific legal reserve fund. So we don't have funds that are

[0:32:29] Voice 1: specifically reserved for legal costs, but our reserve fund could potentially be used for legal

[0:32:35] Voice 1: if needed or sorry our surplus funds okay that's fine

[0:32:40] Voice 1: thank

[0:32:41] Trustee Grove: you julia paul brent then laura patrick

[0:32:44] Trustee Grove: yeah

[0:32:45] Voice 13: the way i look at the way it's currently worded it's you could drive a truck through it

[0:32:50] Voice 13: and so you talk about potential restrictions i know that the cao at one point in time had suggested

[0:32:56] Voice 13: that a good use of surplus funds would be to build our own office building for the

[0:33:01] Voice 13: the for the islands trust and so um i'm just wondering if if we really want to make it that

[0:33:08] Voice 13: broad i mean significant or unanticipated general expenditures certainly covers pretty much

[0:33:14] Voice 13: everything emergent operating issues again covers anything else and one-time or intermittent

[0:33:20] Voice 13: projects um so is a is an office building for the islands trust i considered a one-time project i

[0:33:29] Voice 13: I mean, I'm a little concerned about how broad this is.

[0:33:32] Voice 13: I understand Peter's concerned about legal,

[0:33:35] Voice 13: but it's clearly covered in this

[0:33:36] Voice 13: by just looking at the language.

[0:33:39] Voice 13: Any comment there?

[0:33:42] Voice 1: I do agree with you, it is very broad.

[0:33:45] Voice 1: So this could be interpreted in many ways

[0:33:48] Voice 1: to fund many expenses, I would agree with that.

[0:33:52] Voice 1: That was one of the things that was mentioned

[0:33:54] Voice 1: in one of the historical reports that came before FPC

[0:33:57] Voice 1: is that, you know, currently the surplus fund is used to kind of fund all projects. You know,

[0:34:03] Voice 1: things like strategic plan projects are funded. Are they really considered one-time or intermittent

[0:34:07] Voice 1: given that they're happening every year? And yeah, it is very, very broad. You could certainly

[0:34:13] Voice 1: change the language to restrict it, to protect the surplus fund.

[0:34:18] Voice 13: It is also my understanding from previous FPCs that using a reserve fund for operating issues

[0:34:25] Voice 13: isn't generally considered a best practice is that correct that's

[0:34:29] Voice 1: correct so

[0:34:30] Voice 13: what we're doing

[0:34:31] Voice 13: is we're putting in place a policy that could potentially um almost encourage bad behavior

[0:34:38] Voice 13: potentially i just need some clarity on that so i mean this is

[0:34:43] Voice 13: something i think we should bring up

[0:34:45] Voice 13: to the next um fpc and trust council personally i think that's that's appropriate i

[0:34:53] Voice 1: certainly that

[0:34:54] Voice 1: This outgoing FPC could make recommendations to Trust Council for amendments to this policy, and that could include language to further restrict the use of surplus to protect against those kinds of things.

[0:35:09] Voice 1: Yeah, you know, we could happily take those motions now and work language in to take before next FPC or before Council.

[0:35:14] Voice 1: Okay,

[0:35:16] Voice 13: well, I'm going to move that staff investigate possible language changes to ensure that the use of the general revenue surplus fund does not violate general policies where operating funds are not to be provided by the general surplus fund.

[0:35:39] Voice 13: And don't ever ask me to remember what I just said there, because it won't happen.

[0:35:44] Voice 13: And I'm sure it can be contained elsewhere in a briefer motion, but that is the intent, is that we recommend to a future FPC that this be looked at,

[0:35:59] Voice 13: ensure that there is no potential abuse of the surplus fund for general operating funding.

[0:36:10] Voice 13: Did somebody capture that or?

[0:36:14] Trustee Luckham: Robert Barlow.

[0:36:15] Trustee Luckham: uh

[0:36:16] Voice 14: chair i had difficulties with it um i captured some of it but not all of it what i have is the

[0:36:23] Voice 14: financial planning committee requests staff to investigate possible language changes

[0:36:26] Voice 14: to ensure the policy does not violate general policies so

[0:36:32] Voice 13: general accounting policies

[0:36:34] Voice 13: policies related to use of surplus funds to fund operating and if anyone has any amendments to that

[0:36:49] Voice 13: to make it clearer including director mobs i'd appreciate it i

[0:36:54] Voice 1: would maybe use the word

[0:36:57] Voice 1: best practices that there's no accounting policy specifically that

[0:37:00] Voice 13: would be on this kind of thing

[0:37:01] Voice 13: good amendment and

[0:37:05] Voice 1: it may be helpful to see it on screen as well uh

[0:37:08] Voice 14: yes i'm just trying to put

[0:37:10] Voice 14: it together right now yeah

[0:37:12] Voice 13: sorry about that but it's kind of an emerging issue that

[0:37:15] Trustee Grove: i didn't pick

[0:37:17] Voice 13: up

[0:37:18] Trustee Grove: may i interrupt for just for a second um while that's being put up on the screen wouldn't it be

[0:37:23] Trustee Grove: simpler to say that surplus funds should not be used for operations for operating expenses have

[0:37:39] Trustee Grove: i lost everybody

[0:37:40] Voice 13: i'm thinking ah i mean it's one thing you know we just there are best practices

[0:37:47] Voice 13: There may be situations where it's necessary.

[0:37:52] Voice 13: I don't want to restrict things too much.

[0:37:53] Voice 13: And it's really just a recommendation

[0:37:54] Voice 13: to the next financial planning committee.

[0:37:56] Voice 13: So we just want to ensure that best practices are followed.

[0:38:10] Trustee Grove: It's up on the screen, everybody.

[0:38:24] Trustee Grove: That seems clear to me.

[0:38:26] Trustee Grove: Well,

[0:38:26] Trustee Luckham: you need, there's some wording necessary

[0:38:28] Trustee Luckham: between insure does.

[0:38:31] Trustee Grove: Yeah, it does.

[0:38:37] Trustee Grove: Yeah, it.

[0:38:40] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you.

[0:38:42] Trustee Grove: And related is missed still.

[0:38:46] Trustee Grove: Paul, does that capture your-

[0:38:48] Trustee Grove: To me, yeah.

[0:38:51] Voice 1: I would suggest the removal of the word accounting.

[0:38:54] Trustee Grove: Okay.

[0:38:58] Trustee Grove: You don't need general then.

[0:39:00] Trustee Grove: So it's just post-practices, right?

[0:39:02] Voice 4: Yeah.

[0:39:06] Voice 13: So we should delete general, make it-

[0:39:08] Trustee Grove: Are we all right with that, everybody?

[0:39:15] Voice 13: I am.

[0:39:16] Voice 13: Do we have a seconder?

[0:39:19] Trustee Grove: Dan Rogers is seconding it,

[0:39:21] Trustee Grove: or he's giving me a rude sign.

[0:39:22] Trustee Grove: I'm not sure which.

[0:39:25] Trustee Grove: V for victory.

[0:39:27] Trustee Grove: So any further discussion?

[0:39:31] Trustee Grove: hearing now let's uh speak with your either your yellow hand i'll speak to this sir oh beg your

[0:39:38] Trustee Grove: pardon go ahead that's what

[0:39:39] Trustee Rogers: you're doing i i had a not dissimilar motion to make um i i just think

[0:39:44] Trustee Rogers: this needs some some work and i i hope i know that much of what's going to happen at fpc over

[0:39:50] Trustee Rogers: the next four months is going to be bound up with the budget but this has been a concern of mine

[0:39:57] Trustee Rogers: for quite a while is if there's one thing

[0:40:01] Trustee Rogers: that's not very well understood by trustees,

[0:40:04] Trustee Rogers: including myself, and I include that,

[0:40:06] Trustee Rogers: is how surplus is used.

[0:40:08] Trustee Rogers: And frankly, the various individual surplus funds.

[0:40:11] Trustee Rogers: And it would be great to have some clarity

[0:40:13] Trustee Rogers: around how it's used, et cetera.

[0:40:15] Trustee Rogers: And I have never been of the view

[0:40:17] Trustee Rogers: that we should use the surplus

[0:40:19] Trustee Rogers: for general operating expenses.

[0:40:21] Trustee Rogers: And we've used it a bit as a slush fund

[0:40:24] Trustee Rogers: over the last four or five years.

[0:40:26] Trustee Rogers: And the problem is you embed ongoing expenses into the budget of the Trust Council without considering what the future impacts of that are.

[0:40:34] Trustee Rogers: I totally think the surplus should be available for special projects, for expenses that are important and need to be funded on a one-off basis, but not for general operating.

[0:40:50] Trustee Rogers: So I think this is a good way to look at this.

[0:40:52] Trustee Rogers: And if we can send this back to staff and have them bring some recommendations back to the FPC rather than take it to Trust Council, where there's going to be a whole bunch of new trustees that really don't follow, in many cases will just be coming up to speed on this issue.

[0:41:07] Trustee Rogers: I think it's probably a useful exercise for the FPC and a project for them to take on.

[0:41:13] Trustee Rogers: And I don't know whether it needs to be a project for the next FPC, but I would expect it should be and probably is on the FPC agenda and should stay there.

[0:41:21] Trustee Rogers: there. Thanks. That's my view. Thank you, Dan.

[0:41:25] Trustee Grove: Sue Ellen Fast.

[0:41:27] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair. My suggestion is

[0:41:30] Trustee Fast: just to change the very last word of that motion to the word policies to expenses. Would that make

[0:41:37] Trustee Fast: more sense? I just heard Trustee Rogers say operating operations expenses.

[0:41:42] Trustee Grove: That makes sense

[0:41:43] Trustee Grove: to me. Julia, what do you think? I agree.

[0:41:49] Trustee Grove: Yeah. Let's do that, please.

[0:41:52] Trustee Fast: Thank you. If we can do

[0:41:53] Trustee Fast: that by consent that's great thank you

[0:41:54] Trustee Grove: thank you suelen laura patrick my

[0:41:59] Trustee Patrick: only question question is

[0:42:01] Trustee Patrick: as we go look into this because i've been looking at every municipality that has been doing ocp

[0:42:08] Trustee Patrick: reviews this past term and and how they've been funded because i was particularly interested in

[0:42:15] Trustee Patrick: that and all of them drew from surplus to pay for their ocp amendments because they you know

[0:42:22] Trustee Patrick: These projects are getting more and more sophisticated and expensive.

[0:42:27] Trustee Patrick: And I think that that makes sense to sort of create that surplus to be able to use for these larger OCP reviews as they come in.

[0:42:37] Trustee Patrick: So I just want to make sure that we're capturing those type of, you know, is a large OCP amendment special, but they should be happening regularly every five years or so.

[0:42:50] Trustee Patrick: so I just want to make sure we're catching those because I think we're going to see them become

[0:42:54] Trustee Patrick: far more expensive. I

[0:43:00] Voice 1: can comment on that briefly if you'd like the current motion would not restrict

[0:43:04] Voice 1: the use of surplus for those types of things and section 3.2 the language there would allow for

[0:43:09] Voice 1: that.

[0:43:10] Trustee Grove: Thank you Julia. Laura Bushegan.

[0:43:13] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah I had a my comment is very similar to the last one so

[0:43:17] Trustee Busheikin: I will keep it brief so as not to repeat and I will vote in favor of this because I think the

[0:43:24] Trustee Busheikin: The more clarity we have in our policies, especially around this, the better.

[0:43:29] Trustee Busheikin: But the trust is, and Trust Council has worked mightily to solve the problem that we tend

[0:43:37] Trustee Busheikin: to end up with quite a large surplus every year because, well, it's been analyzed.

[0:43:43] Trustee Busheikin: Staff turnover, unpredictability of projects getting done, vacant staff positions is a

[0:43:50] Trustee Busheikin: a big one um which are all are mostly operating issues and then um you know and then that money

[0:44:01] Trustee Busheikin: gets put in surplus and then there can be a problem funding things like staffing in the future

[0:44:08] Trustee Busheikin: um it you know what i'm talking about so and this problem doesn't seem to be something we can

[0:44:14] Trustee Busheikin: entirely get rid of um it just seems to be built into how we work although we've improved upon it

[0:44:20] Trustee Busheikin: So I just would hope that whatever comes forward does include some flexibility for, yeah, it's not too narrow because a lot of the surplus comes from operational things that can't get done for, you know, reasonable reasons during the fiscal year.

[0:44:43] Trustee Busheikin: and there is some argument to be made that it perhaps not general operating costs but

[0:44:52] Trustee Busheikin: but things like ocp reviews or temporary staff positions that kind of thing needs to be included

[0:45:00] Trustee Busheikin: or we'll just end up with a lot of surplus that we can't use for the things we need to use it for

[0:45:14] Trustee Grove: thank you tim peterson thank

[0:45:19] Voice 3: you chair um yeah i'm in favor of this motion and uh for many reasons

[0:45:24] Voice 3: um that have been mentioned and the specific one that sticks out for me is sort of the last minute

[0:45:31] Voice 3: draw on surplus to to reduce uh tax at budget time so um which i don't i feel is not best practices

[0:45:41] Voice 3: and so I'm just speaking in favor of the motion thank you any

[0:45:47] Trustee Grove: other comments if not I'd like to

[0:45:49] Trustee Grove: move ahead for the vote so all those in favor kindly raise your hands lower your hands any

[0:46:02] Trustee Grove: contrary raise your hands that motion carries thank you very much so having done that we have

[0:46:15] Trustee Grove: a motion at 7.3 if somebody would care to make that motion and it's going to be swell and fast

[0:46:24] Trustee Grove: I think thank

[0:46:26] Trustee Fast: you chair going back to the the full policy I am I'm in favor I think the

[0:46:35] Trustee Fast: changes to the definition section will help new trustees in particular and

[0:46:43] Trustee Fast: probably all of us I think that's really helpful and and it's and it's good to clarify the 25 to

[0:46:51] Trustee Fast: to the 20 thank you staff for bringing this back to us and uh i move that financial planning

[0:46:56] Trustee Fast: committee forward the proposed amendments um as amended to trust council um policy 6.5.1

[0:47:09] Trustee Fast: reserves and surplus to trust council for approval thank

[0:47:13] Trustee Grove: you is there a seconder is that

[0:47:15] Trustee Grove: peter luckham seconding him yes he is indeed any further discussion

[0:47:20] Trustee Fast: one second i just wanted to

[0:47:21] Trustee Fast: make sure the words as amended got in there because we've just amended it by oh

[0:47:26] Voice 5: thank you

[0:47:27] Voice 4: and dan rogers you have

[0:47:34] Trustee Rogers: a comment uh thanks very much um we didn't amend the policy uh all we did

[0:47:39] Trustee Rogers: is send it back to ask for amendments and suggested amendments so it wasn't

[0:47:44] Trustee Rogers: amended and i can't i

[0:47:46] Trustee Rogers: don't i mean we've just sent it back for acts for for further clarification from staff so what are

[0:47:53] Trustee Rogers: we sending to trust council um there i think that it's premature to send it to them until spc's

[0:47:59] Trustee Rogers: had a had a time to to uh consider whatever staff brings to us we'll be taking i mean i agree that

[0:48:05] Trustee Rogers: some of the amendments make some sense um but it seems to me we're not ready to send this to

[0:48:11] Trustee Rogers: to trust council yet unless uh because all of because the whole section around section 3.1

[0:48:18] Trustee Rogers: or 3.2 or whatever it is seems to me to be um in flux because we want to work on it right

[0:48:25] Trustee Rogers: so i

[0:48:27] Trustee Luckham: see that trustee brent has left the room but i think his intention was a future council would

[0:48:32] Trustee Luckham: further review them that was my impression that

[0:48:37] Trustee Fast: wasn't mine but that's okay okay well i moved it

[0:48:41] Trustee Fast: because i thought they were separate but

[0:48:43] Trustee Stamford: um we'd

[0:48:45] Trustee Fast: asked for more work to be done on that one but the

[0:48:48] Trustee Fast: the rest of this could be moved forward.

[0:48:53] Trustee Fast: Maybe we need to clarify that.

[0:49:00] Trustee Rogers: Yes, the question is, if we leave it

[0:49:02] Trustee Luckham: for

[0:49:04] Trustee Rogers: the next trust,

[0:49:06] Trustee Rogers: for the next FPC to work on, and as I said,

[0:49:09] Trustee Rogers: I'm quite sure the budget will take up much of the work.

[0:49:13] Trustee Rogers: I guess that leaves the current policy in place

[0:49:16] Trustee Rogers: when the next budget is put in place and it's problematic,

[0:49:20] Trustee Rogers: but maybe maybe director mobs can address that um

[0:49:26] Voice 1: yeah i was just going to say i do think it

[0:49:28] Voice 1: makes sense to complete the amendments before it goes to council if we were to take this policy

[0:49:32] Voice 1: to council now have them approve the amendments and then in the background we've got the new

[0:49:36] Voice 1: financial planning committee looking at revisions to the use of surplus option 3.2 then we've got

[0:49:41] Voice 1: to go back to council again uh it may just be you know make more sense to consolidate those

[0:49:46] Voice 1: those exercises I do believe it's going to be a little while before these

[0:49:52] Voice 1: policies land at the council table anyway you know we've got a pretty full

[0:49:55] Voice 1: docket for November and December Trust Council so financial planning committee

[0:50:00] Voice 1: will have time to take on this additional work before sending this to

[0:50:04] Voice 1: Council so

[0:50:05] Trustee Grove: what do we need to do now then do

[0:50:10] Trustee Fast: I'd be happy to withdraw the

[0:50:12] Trustee Fast: motion but I don't think I can I think we might if it was seconded I think we

[0:50:15] Trustee Fast: we need to vote it down.

[0:50:16] Trustee Fast: Is that true?

[0:50:17] Trustee Grove: Was it seconded?

[0:50:19] Trustee Grove: It was seconded.

[0:50:20] Trustee Grove: Yeah, it was.

[0:50:21] Trustee Grove: So let us vote on that motion.

[0:50:24] Trustee Grove: Those in favor?

[0:50:25] Trustee Grove: Okay.

[0:50:27] Trustee Grove: Those in favor,

[0:50:28] Trustee Grove: raise your electronic hands, please.

[0:50:34] Trustee Grove: Seeing none, those contrary,

[0:50:36] Trustee Grove: raise your electronic hands, please.

[0:50:40] Trustee Grove: So that fails, hands down.

[0:50:46] Trustee Grove: So how do we want to leave this?

[0:50:48] Voice 4: That's it.

[0:50:53] Trustee Grove: Okay. But staff has got some direction there, I guess.

[0:50:57] Voice 1: We do, yeah. There's enough there for us to work with.

[0:50:59] Trustee Grove: Good. Okay. So let us move to 7.4 in that case.

[0:51:03] Trustee Grove: Trust Council Policy 6.3.2 Special Property Tax Requisitions.

[0:51:08] Trustee Grove: A request for decision. Julia Mott.

[0:51:12] Voice 1: Thank you, Chair. Again, this is a policy that Financial Planning Committee has already reviewed.

[0:51:17] Voice 1: there have been a few tweaks made since FPC's review this policy was meant to go to Trust

[0:51:24] Voice 1: Council after FPC reviewed last time didn't make its way there and so we're picking the project up

[0:51:30] Voice 1: again some of the more significant amendments to the policy since FPC saw it last time are in the

[0:51:36] Voice 1: timeline or the checklist that's attached to the policy so that governs the timeline that will

[0:51:42] Voice 1: or guides LTCs in how they go about obtaining special requisition funds. We have Director

[0:51:50] Voice 1: Cermak on the management team now. And of course, he's been very involved for a number of years

[0:51:54] Voice 1: with the Salt Spring Island special tax requisition. So he was able to lend some

[0:51:58] Voice 1: insights into how that timeline works or does not. So we've made some amendments there.

[0:52:04] Voice 1: So I won't walk through the policy amendments again. Again, FPC has already done that,

[0:52:09] Voice 1: but I'll happily receive comments if there are any

[0:52:12] Voice 1: before we move on to the frequently asked questions

[0:52:15] Voice 1: that's new.

[0:52:20] Voice 4: Dan Rogers.

[0:52:25] Voice 4: So

[0:52:26] Trustee Rogers: I'm just going to preface about what I'm going to say

[0:52:29] Trustee Rogers: is I think I'm probably at least at the median

[0:52:32] Trustee Rogers: and above the median of knowledge of our internal policies

[0:52:36] Trustee Rogers: of the trust of trustees.

[0:52:39] Trustee Rogers: And I was surprised to find out that the criteria

[0:52:44] Trustee Rogers: for funding projects in the budget process

[0:52:48] Trustee Rogers: was contained in the special tax requisition policy.

[0:52:52] Trustee Rogers: I cannot for the life of me figure out why it's there,

[0:52:56] Trustee Rogers: why it wouldn't be in a, like the whole of section three

[0:52:59] Trustee Rogers: is why is there a whole criteria?

[0:53:02] Trustee Rogers: And I have to say, I also find it surprising

[0:53:06] Trustee Rogers: that the criteria are so mandatory.

[0:53:10] Trustee Rogers: I would have thought the decision

[0:53:12] Trustee Rogers: as to whether projects were to be funded out of our regular budget would be a political decision

[0:53:18] Trustee Rogers: of the trust council and not bound by strict guidelines that are found in section 3.1

[0:53:25] Trustee Rogers: so I've got a problem with this the way this is designed under section 3 as opposed to a

[0:53:32] Trustee Rogers: separate policy but my major considerate question is I'd like someone to tell me how you get to a

[0:53:40] Trustee Rogers: special tax requisition and how the policy would work because because when i went through this

[0:53:46] Trustee Rogers: process with gabriola last year we came to trust council in december as i understood the policy

[0:53:52] Trustee Rogers: worked uh and said uh we want to fund x which was a fairly large number and i wasn't overly

[0:54:00] Trustee Rogers: surprised that the trust council said no um uh and when we explored going to the special tax

[0:54:07] Trustee Rogers: requisition process we're effectively told by the staff the staff that it would take a year

[0:54:13] Trustee Rogers: and a half to get through the through the bylaw process to try and get the the authority in order

[0:54:21] Trustee Rogers: to put this in ha in place that it could not happen that year so if someone could walk me

[0:54:27] Trustee Rogers: through that timeline and tell me how it is that it can get done in the same fiscal year if you

[0:54:33] Trustee Rogers: you start in July, how you can get to a special tax requisition by April 1st of the following

[0:54:40] Trustee Rogers: year. I would appreciate that because that was not the experience that we had when we went through

[0:54:49] Trustee Rogers: this consideration of this issue with Gabriola. And that's what this seems to anticipate. And if

[0:54:55] Trustee Rogers: it's not real, then I don't think it should be in the policy. So sorry, I don't mean to be

[0:55:00] Trustee Rogers: uh critical but we went through this and it and it was a very unsatisfactory process um because

[0:55:08] Trustee Rogers: there didn't seem to be an answer for us to get to the end of the line so so i can

[0:55:16] Trustee Rogers: i guess i don't

[0:55:17] Voice 1: know if

[0:55:17] Trustee Rogers: i'm asking you or if i'm asking the director of planning services or who i'm asking

[0:55:21] Trustee Rogers: so

[0:55:21] Voice 1: i'll i'll lead off if i may and then i'll pass it over uh to director cermak so i'd like to

[0:55:26] Voice 1: address your first comment around why there's evaluation criteria in section three um regarding

[0:55:31] Voice 1: what projects will be funded under general, the general budget. I don't think it's meant to

[0:55:36] Voice 1: guide what's funded in the general budget so much as it's meant to suggest what types of things are

[0:55:43] Voice 1: not appropriate for a special requisition. So if there is maybe, you know, trust-wide benefit

[0:55:50] Voice 1: or it's a prioritized plan, council should consider first funding those things in the

[0:55:56] Voice 1: general budget as opposed to looking at a special requisition. That's what that section is trying

[0:56:01] Voice 1: trying to get at in my view.

[0:56:03] Voice 1: And then if a project does not fall within those criteria,

[0:56:06] Voice 1: then it's probably more appropriate

[0:56:08] Voice 1: for a special requisition

[0:56:10] Voice 1: if there's not room in the base budget.

[0:56:12] Voice 1: So I don't know if that helps.

[0:56:14] Voice 1: I'm seeing you

[0:56:15] Trustee Rogers: shake your head.

[0:56:16] Trustee Rogers: That's not the

[0:56:16] Trustee Rogers: way it reads to me.

[0:56:17] Voice 1: Okay.

[0:56:18] Trustee Rogers: It reads that

[0:56:19] Trustee Rogers: this is how the budget is prepared

[0:56:20] Trustee Rogers: and it doesn't get in the general budget

[0:56:22] Trustee Rogers: unless it meets some of these criteria.

[0:56:25] Voice 1: Okay, so we should revise the language around that then

[0:56:29] Voice 1: to make it more clear.

[0:56:30] Voice 1: because if it's not clear to the reader, then we've got a problem. So we can happily revise

[0:56:35] Voice 1: that language to make it clearer. To your second point around the timeline, it is intended that a

[0:56:45] Voice 1: project seeking funding would go to December Trust Council if Council deems that there's no room in

[0:56:50] Voice 1: the general budget for funding and the Local Trust Committee wants to pursue a special property tax

[0:56:54] Voice 1: tax requisition. Then the intention is that there'd be a public consultation between the

[0:57:00] Voice 1: December council meeting and the March council meeting. And then council could consider that

[0:57:04] Voice 1: information as part of their decision to approve a special acquisition in March.

[0:57:10] Voice 1: There is a distinction between delegating an authority from council to a local trust committee

[0:57:17] Voice 1: to undertake work versus an authority that a local trust committee already has. So if a project

[0:57:23] Voice 1: falls within the scope of a local trust committee's existing jurisdiction there shouldn't be an issue

[0:57:28] Voice 1: with the timeline the existing timeline if there is an authority outside of their jurisdiction that

[0:57:35] Voice 1: council needs to delegate to them by a bylaw as we've seen with bylaw 154 related to salt spring

[0:57:41] Voice 1: that's where i think the process could take a long time i'm not familiar with the particular

[0:57:44] Voice 1: situation you're talking about so i'll let director sermac speak to that but that would

[0:57:49] Voice 1: be my understanding thank

[0:57:52] Trustee Grove: you uh stefan

[0:57:53] Voice 16: can you comment thank you thank you uh chair grove um

[0:57:57] Voice 16: actually i cannot comment on the specific uh process that trustee rogers refers to

[0:58:03] Voice 16: i was only distantly aware of it in the process but i concur with director mobs and the the way

[0:58:11] Voice 16: this policy reads the way i understand it and the way i try to sort of tweak it a little bit to

[0:58:16] Voice 16: influence that direction was, yeah, if an LTC submits their budget by the December Trust Council

[0:58:25] Voice 16: and it's denied inclusion in the general budget, then they can go the special tax requisition

[0:58:30] Voice 16: route via the process laid out here, which is essentially making sure that there's engagement

[0:58:38] Voice 16: with the community. So that timeline that you discussed has only, in my understanding,

[0:58:44] Voice 16: and then relevant to the deferred authority,

[0:58:46] Voice 16: which was similar to what created SWMP

[0:58:48] Voice 16: on Salt Spring Island.

[0:58:49] Voice 16: And that would take some time

[0:58:51] Voice 16: because that's a bylaw has to be drafted

[0:58:54] Voice 16: and go to a trust council

[0:58:56] Voice 16: and there's much more process to get that bylaw adopted.

[0:58:59] Voice 16: Whereas if you're just working within the given authority

[0:59:02] Voice 16: that the LTC has,

[0:59:04] Voice 16: then the special tax requisition process

[0:59:06] Voice 16: should be able to kick in

[0:59:07] Voice 16: if it's not included in the general budget in December,

[0:59:10] Voice 16: And then you can do the engagement to through the winter with

[0:59:16] Trustee Rogers: with with your leave.

[0:59:18] Trustee Rogers: Mr. Chair, please. If a local trust committee says we want to do an OCP review and we think it's going to cost $80,000.

[0:59:27] Trustee Rogers: And the December Trust Council says, no, we're not going to fund that this year because our piece,

[0:59:34] Trustee Rogers: because the regional planning team is working on two others and we're going to focus on those two.

[0:59:40] Trustee Rogers: If they want to go ahead, they wouldn't need a defeat of third authority. The anticipation would

[0:59:46] Trustee Rogers: be they could get through the process of doing the public consultation and ask for a special tax

[0:59:52] Trustee Rogers: requisition for their island to deal with that by that budget. That's the way this thing would work.

[1:00:03] Voice 4: Maybe

[1:00:04] Voice 16: I'm not fully understanding this. I'm already anticipating answering questions. I'm sorry, but could you maybe repeat the question? Because I'm looking at page 41 and it sort of paints the scenario at the bottom of the page in the second to last box about this sort of, if Trust Council doesn't include the additional operations in the general budget, then the process is laid out for ensuring that you go through the process.

[1:00:28] Trustee Rogers: Right. So my question was, so an LTC has a general authority to do an OCP review.

[1:00:36] Trustee Rogers: The anticipation of this process is they can get through that process for the local special tax requisition related to this by the time the budget's approved in March.

[1:00:46] Voice 16: Correct. Now, the one hiccup having gone through the process as a staff person is staff and or the LTC together should be prepared for that potential outcome.

[1:00:54] Voice 16: outcome. Hopefully there's some signalling where they're not leading up to the December

[1:00:58] Voice 16: Trust Council. They don't want it all to be last minute. And because the hard part will

[1:01:03] Voice 16: be ensuring that that engagement process is activated, that takes a bit of effort and

[1:01:09] Voice 16: having done that several times through the SWPA, setting up the public engagement process

[1:01:15] Voice 16: and what that looks like takes a bit of effort. So that's something else anticipated in this

[1:01:21] Voice 16: policy amendments that I helped create amendments was that for Salt Spring, because they've

[1:01:26] Voice 16: done it for like nine, 10 years now, we sort of defaulted to ensuring that that work, of

[1:01:33] Voice 16: course, it's easy enough to take from the previous work and just amend it, is included

[1:01:37] Voice 16: in the general budget, but making sure that that distinction, like an engagement process,

[1:01:42] Voice 16: that distinction of the SWPA funding, the special tax requisition is distinct and separate,

[1:01:46] Voice 16: but it works in tandem with the general engagement process for the budget.

[1:01:52] Voice 16: That makes sense.

[1:01:53] Voice 16: We tried to create language here that you can either engage your own on island,

[1:01:58] Voice 16: do it your own way, or you can do it in tandem,

[1:02:01] Voice 16: but you still have to make sure it's distinct in tandem.

[1:02:04] Voice 16: Is that clear as mud?

[1:02:05] Voice 16: But yes, the timeline is correct.

[1:02:07] Voice 16: You should be able to do it in this timeline.

[1:02:09] Voice 16: It's going to be really hard because you're going to get squished

[1:02:12] Voice 16: by between December Trust Council and January doing the engagement process.

[1:02:15] Voice 16: So you should be anticipating that and hopefully your staff are ready to do that.

[1:02:21] Voice 16: It's easy for SWPA because they've done it so many years and we can just cut and paste.

[1:02:26] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Stefan. Dan, are you all right with that? Good. Laura Patrick, you're next.

[1:02:39] Trustee Patrick: I swear these policies all kind of come together with where we're going at sort of the local planning services review and clarity there.

[1:02:48] Trustee Patrick: I know, for example, with Ganges Village planning, we were talking about the mandate of the Allen's Trust and its completeness, which is about working in cooperation with all the other agencies that touch, you know, touch on Ganges Village.

[1:03:06] Trustee Patrick: village but you know when we were having those conversations I said well that would require that

[1:03:14] Trustee Patrick: we do a special tax requisition and I and I and I don't think to me any OCPs or plans that we're

[1:03:19] Trustee Patrick: working on that require cooperation with other parties that that that's not an automatic creates

[1:03:24] Trustee Patrick: a different project that should just be how we do our business so I just want to warn of that one

[1:03:29] Trustee Patrick: the other piece that's that I know our experience here on Salt Spring has been having to apply the

[1:03:35] Trustee Patrick: a special tax requisition to the entire local trust area when it may only affect one island

[1:03:42] Trustee Patrick: within that area and that you know the others don't feel you know fair that they're having to

[1:03:47] Trustee Patrick: pay a tax requisition for something that they're not getting benefit of and is that something that

[1:03:53] Trustee Patrick: is that within the act or is that another place that we would be able to decouple and you know

[1:03:58] Trustee Patrick: one island from the local trust area uh

[1:04:05] Voice 1: so yeah we've got director marler on the line too but

[1:04:09] Voice 1: that unfortunately is legislated um so that's in the islands trust act it talks about requisitioning

[1:04:14] Voice 1: to an entire local trust area there is no ability for us legislatively to parcel out um specific

[1:04:19] Voice 1: project or properties or specific islands unfortunately so we are bound in that area

[1:04:25] Voice 1: I just wanted to clarify, just related to your previous comment as well, that there is no requirement that any project be funded by a special tax requisition, just by the nature of the project itself.

[1:04:38] Voice 1: Trust Council can make that determination, and they can approve, as they do, local projects be funded from the general budget.

[1:04:46] Voice 1: This policy is intended to guide, you know, when council doesn't want to fund something out of the general budget, because they don't see either trust wide benefit or there just isn't money in the general budget.

[1:04:58] Voice 1: All the scenarios that are listed, I think in section 3.1.

[1:05:02] Voice 1: So, yeah, there is no requirement that a project be funded by a special requisition. And there is also a distinction as we've mentioned before between

[1:05:10] Voice 1: between delegating an authority so you can delegate an authority to a local trust committee

[1:05:15] Voice 1: and still fund whatever project is being undertaken under that authority by with the general budget

[1:05:21] Voice 1: because there's no requirement what we historically have seen is that delegated authorities will tend

[1:05:26] Voice 1: to then have a special requisition attached to them but it's not a requirement and if i've spoken

[1:05:31] Voice 1: incorrectly on anything i would look to director marler to correct me

[1:05:33] Voice 2: i know i totally agree with

[1:05:37] Voice 2: just if i made through the chair for some reason my camera won't turn on so i've just got a blank

[1:05:42] Voice 2: screen that's all right i am available good thank

[1:05:46] Trustee Grove: you any other comments or questions

[1:05:53] Trustee Grove: so we have a motion at 7.4

[1:05:56] Trustee Rogers: well sorry i i guess my question about the way it reads

[1:06:00] Trustee Rogers: does anybody else read 3.1 that way uh the way i do or am i am i alone in reading it as

[1:06:07] Trustee Rogers: as as a restriction on what types of things can be funded out of the general budget as

[1:06:13] Trustee Rogers: opposed to those that have to go to a special tax recognition you're

[1:06:18] Trustee Grove: the lawyer and the wordsmith

[1:06:19] Trustee Grove: the legal wordsmith so i have to pay attention well

[1:06:22] Trustee Rogers: no i i don't that's why there's lawyers

[1:06:26] Trustee Rogers: why there's lots of lawyers because not everybody agrees on what the language means

[1:06:30] Trustee Rogers: but I don't know Julia's got a comment uh

[1:06:35] Voice 1: we may be able to just tweak the the lead-in sentence

[1:06:38] Voice 1: slightly um just you know island's just council will first evaluate and consider maybe not not

[1:06:47] Voice 1: quite capture what you're looking for um if there's suggested language change that would

[1:06:54] Voice 1: make it clearer we would be happy to incorporate do

[1:06:58] Trustee Grove: you have a suggested change Dan Rogers um

[1:07:01] Trustee Rogers: And I'd have to think about it. I read this quite late last night, but I read it again this morning.

[1:07:07] Trustee Rogers: And it sort of applies if you don't hit the criteria, you can't get funded.

[1:07:15] Trustee Rogers: It's as if any of the following criteria, I would probably say something the Honours Trust Council will evaluate and consider the following criteria

[1:07:24] Trustee Rogers: and determining whether or not to fund a project

[1:07:29] Trustee Rogers: out of the general budget

[1:07:31] Trustee Rogers: as opposed to having it sort of read the way it does.

[1:07:36] Trustee Rogers: But I don't have a specific language to work with.

[1:07:44] Trustee Rogers: I can try and draft something,

[1:07:46] Trustee Rogers: but I know you want to send this to the Trust Council.

[1:07:51] Trustee Rogers: That's the plan, isn't it?

[1:07:54] Trustee Fast: I see Laura Bershaken has her hand up.

[1:07:56] Trustee Fast: Oh, I

[1:07:57] Trustee Grove: don't see that. Well,

[1:08:00] Trustee Busheikin: I put my physical hand up.

[1:08:01] Trustee Grove: Uh-huh. Well, I didn't have your

[1:08:03] Trustee Busheikin: picture on the

[1:08:03] Trustee Grove: screen. There you go. Oh, thank you.

[1:08:05] Trustee Grove: Okay.

[1:08:06] Trustee Busheikin: You don't see my picture.

[1:08:07] Trustee Busheikin: I didn't,

[1:08:08] Trustee Grove: but you're there now, all surrounded by yellow.

[1:08:10] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Well, just to try and move this forward, and I'm not a lawyer, but I'm a board person.

[1:08:18] Trustee Busheikin: And if it just, because I get the concern, if it just changed the end, so we go, the Trust Council will evaluate and consider including LTC's local program or service in the Islands Trust general budget based on the following criteria.

[1:08:42] Trustee Busheikin: and that tells you what the criteria are but it to me it's it's a subtle difference but it

[1:08:48] Trustee Busheikin: it doesn't necessarily preclude not like it doesn't i think it's a little less binding

[1:08:58] Trustee Grove: that makes sense to me i have to confess um any other comments dan what do you think of that

[1:09:03] Trustee Grove: that works for me okay could you

[1:09:07] Trustee Rogers: make that following

[1:09:08] Trustee Grove: criteria and the amendment please

[1:09:09] Trustee Grove: please

[1:09:09] Trustee Busheikin: okay so i move that the whatever this is um uh yeah but the the if i just if i scroll up

[1:09:21] Trustee Busheikin: i'm going to lose track like just to the the proposed amendment to the special property tax

[1:09:28] Trustee Busheikin: requisition there's probably some numbers that need to go in there be amended as follows

[1:09:33] Voice 4: okay

[1:09:35] Trustee Busheikin: point two yes six point three point two there it is at the bottom um uh be amended as follows

[1:09:43] Trustee Busheikin: um colon in 3.1 um that the words if any of the following criteria apply be replaced by

[1:10:06] Trustee Busheikin: based on the following criteria.

[1:10:19] Voice 4: Robert, and it's been seconded by Dan Rogers.

[1:10:21] Voice 4: Robert, did you get that?

[1:10:28] Voice 4: Typing madly.

[1:10:30] Voice 14: I believe I will share what I've got here.

[1:10:39] Voice 14: The first part I didn't quite understand.

[1:10:41] Voice 14: The Financial Planning Committee amend TC policy

[1:10:45] Voice 14: and then the part that I didn't quite get,

[1:10:49] Voice 14: something I heard about, something about 6.3.2?

[1:10:52] Voice 14: um

[1:10:53] Trustee Busheikin: yeah just a second so because what we're okay yes that the like i actually don't really know

[1:11:04] Trustee Busheikin: the wording like we're amending proposed amendments i don't know if staff can help me

[1:11:11] Trustee Busheikin: out with this like just to like what like we have a draft with amendments and i want to

[1:11:16] Trustee Busheikin: change that draft so i really am not sure how to

[1:11:21] Voice 1: i've put something in the chat which

[1:11:25] Voice 1: which may or

[1:11:25] Trustee Busheikin: may not be helpful.

[1:11:27] Voice 1: I tend to find instead of replacing words with words,

[1:11:31] Voice 1: it's just to say be amended to read

[1:11:33] Voice 1: and then the full sentence of what you'd like it to be.

[1:11:36] Voice 1: So have

[1:11:37] Voice 5: a look at

[1:11:38] Voice 1: what I've put there.

[1:11:39] Voice 1: And if that's what you're intending,

[1:11:40] Voice 1: then Robert, we can grab it out of the chat

[1:11:42] Voice 1: and put it on the screen.

[1:11:45] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, it's just, I don't know what I'm amending.

[1:11:47] Trustee Busheikin: Like I don't, cause there's a, that's what I don't know.

[1:11:51] Trustee Busheikin: Am I amending the policy

[1:11:53] Trustee Busheikin: or am I amending a proposal for policy?

[1:11:57] Trustee Busheikin: Like I just don't, that's what I'm stuck with.

[1:12:01] Voice 1: I think a motion simply to amend the policy language.

[1:12:05] Voice 1: Okay, fine.

[1:12:06] Trustee Busheikin: So then it's a move to amend policy 6.3.2

[1:12:12] Trustee Busheikin: special property tax requisition.

[1:12:22] Trustee Busheikin: We could stick, okay, so move that financial planning

[1:12:25] Trustee Busheikin: committee amend policy 6.3.2 section 3.1.

[1:12:29] Trustee Busheikin: let's give Robert a chance to okay so if I can work with what's here already

[1:12:38] Trustee Busheikin: it was moved and seconded the financial planning committee amend policy I guess we can't amend it

[1:12:44] Trustee Busheikin: so you see these you know motions on the fly let's see what's in the chat okay I like what's

[1:12:52] Trustee Busheikin: in the chat we move the policy 6.3.2 section 3.1 it's in the chat be amended to read the

[1:13:01] Trustee Busheikin: The Islands Trust Council will evaluate and consider

[1:13:03] Trustee Busheikin: including an LTC's local program or service

[1:13:06] Trustee Busheikin: in the preliminary Islands Trust general budget

[1:13:09] Trustee Busheikin: based on the following criteria.

[1:13:15] Trustee Busheikin: Exactly as in the chat.

[1:13:16] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you so much.

[1:13:18] Trustee Busheikin: I believe it was Director Mox that-

[1:13:20] Trustee Busheikin: It was indeed.

[1:13:21] Trustee Busheikin: Thank you.

[1:13:23] Trustee Busheikin: I

[1:13:24] Trustee Grove: thought I could do it

[1:13:25] Trustee Busheikin: simply, but I couldn't.

[1:13:27] Voice 1: You did raise an excellent point though,

[1:13:30] Voice 1: is that this is a council policy.

[1:13:32] Voice 1: and so the start of that motion should read move that financial planning committee recommend

[1:13:39] Voice 1: that policy three points yeah 6.3.2 okay move that financial

[1:13:44] Trustee Busheikin: planning committee recommend that

[1:13:50] Trustee Grove: excellent well done everybody now that's been moved is it dan rogers did you say a second that

[1:13:57] Trustee Grove: yes you did indeed any further discussion those in favor raise your

[1:14:06] Voice 4: electronic hand please

[1:14:07] Voice 4: your hands those

[1:14:22] Trustee Grove: contrary raise your hands none so that carries thank you so much that was a lot

[1:14:27] Trustee Grove: of work and appreciate everybody's efforts thank you um so we sorry i've gone blank here have we

[1:14:39] Trustee Grove: just forwarded this proposed amendments yes no not yet we still need to forward the proposed

[1:14:47] Trustee Grove: amendments right

[1:14:47] Trustee Rogers: right so we know

[1:14:50] Voice 3: i will move

[1:14:50] Trustee Rogers: that trust council approved the amendments

[1:14:53] Trustee Rogers: to policy 6.3.2.

[1:14:58] Trustee Rogers: What?

[1:15:00] Voice 1: The motion that's in the agenda package

[1:15:03] Voice 1: is actually for Trust Council

[1:15:04] Voice 1: because this work

[1:15:05] Voice 1: was directed to staff

[1:15:07] Voice 1: directly from council.

[1:15:09] Voice 1: You know, staff always think it makes sense

[1:15:10] Voice 1: to bring financial related policies

[1:15:12] Voice 1: to financial planning committee.

[1:15:13] Voice 1: That's why it's here.

[1:15:14] Voice 1: Certainly the committee could craft a motion to.

[1:15:17] Voice 1: So

[1:15:17] Trustee Rogers: we just need to send this to Trust Council.

[1:15:19] Trustee Rogers: Correct.

[1:15:20] Trustee Rogers: So I move that the request for decision

[1:15:23] Trustee Rogers: decision dated December regarding the amendment to policy 6.3.2b forwarded to the Council.

[1:15:32] Trustee Grove: Thank you.

[1:15:33] Trustee Grove: Dan, is there a seconder for that?

[1:15:35] Voice 4: Aye.

[1:15:37] Trustee Grove: Laura Bushekin, thank you.

[1:15:40] Trustee Grove: Any further discussion?

[1:15:43] Trustee Grove: Hearing none, those in favor, raise your electronic hands, please.

[1:15:47] Voice 4: And can we make sure that Robert's got it?

[1:15:50] Voice 4: I heard a sigh.

[1:15:54] Trustee Grove: I thought it was a groan.

[1:15:57] Voice 14: I apologize.

[1:15:58] Voice 14: I apologize.

[1:15:58] Voice 14: I thought it was muted.

[1:16:01] Voice 14: Okay.

[1:16:02] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor, say aye.

[1:16:06] Trustee Grove: We are voting.

[1:16:07] Trustee Grove: Is everyone okay with that?

[1:16:10] Trustee Grove: So let's lower your hands.

[1:16:13] Trustee Grove: Any contrary, please raise your hands.

[1:16:17] Trustee Grove: Seeing none, that carries unanimously.

[1:16:19] Trustee Grove: Thank you very much indeed.

[1:16:22] Trustee Grove: So now at 7.5, a trust policy, 7.2.1, trustee remuneration.

[1:16:28] Trustee Grove: We are getting a briefing from Julia Mods, no doubt.

[1:16:32] Voice 1: Before we go there, Mr. Chair, there is an attachment to 7.4 that's attached

[1:16:38] Voice 1: to the policy.

[1:16:39] Voice 1: It's a new document that our communications team has put together, frequently asked questions on special property tax requisitions.

[1:16:46] Voice 1: So we wanted to give Financial Planning Committee a chance to comment on it, given they've just reviewed the policy.

[1:16:50] Voice 1: So if we can turn it to Director Frater, that would be great.

[1:16:55] Voice 9: Thank you. Yes, this is just here for your feedback as experienced trustees.

[1:16:58] Voice 9: we just appreciate if there's any if you can give it a read and advise us if there's any changes

[1:17:04] Voice 9: the audience is really intended to be trustees it can be made available to the public but primarily

[1:17:09] Voice 9: it's intended to assist trustees in interpreting the policy that you've just reviewed so if you

[1:17:15] Voice 9: have commentary you could please just send comments to me or make them now that would be

[1:17:18] Voice 9: really welcome and then this will be something we'll be providing as part of orientation materials

[1:17:23] Voice 9: to new elected officials.

[1:17:25] Voice 9: Thank you.

[1:17:32] Voice 4: Okay, Laura

[1:17:32] Trustee Grove: Patrick is your hand up.

[1:17:34] Trustee Patrick: I think it's just the make it clear

[1:17:36] Trustee Patrick: that it applies to the entire local trust area.

[1:17:39] Trustee Patrick: I think that the trustees need to know that.

[1:17:45] Trustee Grove: Okay, that makes sense.

[1:17:47] Trustee Grove: And Dan Rogers.

[1:17:49] Trustee Rogers: It's the language that's used here and elsewhere.

[1:17:53] Trustee Rogers: It says beyond the capacity of the base budget.

[1:17:55] Trustee Rogers: I think the reality is that it's not included

[1:18:01] Trustee Rogers: in the approved budget of the trust council as a whole.

[1:18:08] Trustee Rogers: And so I think we need to say that clearly

[1:18:13] Trustee Rogers: because any project could be approved by the trust council.

[1:18:19] Trustee Rogers: So that's the only comment I would make.

[1:18:22] Voice 9: So if I interpret that it's more around

[1:18:25] Voice 9: like noting the discretion that was available to include it

[1:18:28] Voice 9: but it may not have been included something wrong.

[1:18:30] Voice 9: yeah

[1:18:30] Trustee Rogers: i i mean it makes it sounds like it's beyond the capacity like there's a set-based budget that

[1:18:36] Trustee Rogers: we can't do anything about which is wrong uh we could always and we have um from time to time

[1:18:42] Trustee Rogers: that it's so i i get i if even if it said is beyond the capacity of the approved budget would

[1:18:48] Trustee Rogers: be my um my sense of what it should be something like that

[1:18:54] Trustee Fast: third bullet right on page 44 all right

[1:19:00] Trustee Fast: I will take a look. Sorry to be

[1:19:02] Trustee Rogers: nitpicking about so many things.

[1:19:06] Voice 9: That's what I'm looking for. Thank

[1:19:07] Voice 9: you for your comments.

[1:19:09] Trustee Grove: Thanks, Dan. May we move to 7.5, please? And Julia, if you would take us

[1:19:18] Trustee Grove: through that briefing.

[1:19:20] Voice 1: Sure, I'd be happy to. So many moons ago, FPC requested that staff review

[1:19:27] Voice 1: our existing trustee remuneration policy against UBCM guide that had been released. It is a long

[1:19:34] Voice 1: and extensive guide. It is attached to the briefing in the agenda package today. Staff

[1:19:39] Voice 1: have conducted their review and they've conducted it against the nice summary table that's on page

[1:19:46] Voice 1: 96 of the agenda package. So the UBCM report, although long and with some excellent information,

[1:19:52] Voice 1: they do summarize into best practices in a table on page 96. So staff have taken that table and

[1:19:59] Voice 1: the recommended best practices and assess them against the various criteria that we see in the

[1:20:03] Voice 1: trustee remuneration policy. And if there's assessment has been done to either determine

[1:20:11] Voice 1: that trust counsel's policy is considered adequate against the best practices or is an area for

[1:20:17] Voice 1: improvement. So where staff have identified that there is an area for improvement, we've included

[1:20:21] Voice 1: some recommendations for financial planning committee to consider. I believe there's

[1:20:27] Voice 1: recommendations in all areas with the exception of setting remuneration. So I won't go through

[1:20:35] Voice 1: that in detail. There is a lot of information in this briefing, so hopefully committee members

[1:20:40] Voice 1: have read it in detail. But certainly if FPCC's value in making changes to the policy, we would

[1:20:47] Voice 1: receive feedback to actually make those changes to the policy and we'll take it forward to the

[1:20:52] Voice 1: new Trust Council. Of course, it always makes sense to have an outgoing political body make

[1:20:57] Voice 1: recommendations on remuneration changes for an incoming as opposed to an incoming political body

[1:21:02] Voice 1: making changes to their own remuneration. So if there's questions on the report, I'll happily

[1:21:07] Voice 1: field those. The chart for assessment begins on page 47 of the agenda package.

[1:21:23] Trustee Grove: Sorry, Sue Ellen Fast, then Tim Peterson, and then Laura.

[1:21:28] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair. I just looking at number one on page 47. Under the comments and recommendations from staff. It says it refers to in 2010 consultants were hired. And this is about independent advice I just wanted to flag that that comments could include the fact that in the

[1:21:53] Trustee Fast: governance and management review report there is a recommendation to increase current compensation

[1:21:59] Trustee Fast: levels of trustees um so if that was reflected in there that would kind of bring that um

[1:22:07] Trustee Fast: uh up to date because

[1:22:10] Voice 4: council did um receive that report you see what i mean uh

[1:22:19] Voice 1: i i do and if this report travels beyond this committee we can certainly um make that addition

[1:22:25] Voice 1: Okay,

[1:22:26] Trustee Fast: thank you. I just thought that was the most recent one, and it's the one that is in front of the Governance Committee and in front of Trust Council. So, thank you.

[1:22:38] Trustee Grove: Thank you. Laura Boushekin.

[1:22:40] Trustee Grove: Yeah,

[1:22:41] Trustee Busheikin: I have some similar questions. And one is, I believe the recommendation, if there is, there isn't really a recommendation, but I think the idea is to perhaps forward this to Trust Council or to ask staff to bring back draft policy based on this.

[1:23:02] Trustee Busheikin: And, but yeah, I was wondering, where is the role of the governance committee in taking this forward so that, you know, if staff have got, have ideas on that.

[1:23:14] Trustee Busheikin: And then I have another question after that, but that's my first one is, yeah, how would we, how would we move forward to take the, the, the learnings here,

[1:23:26] Trustee Busheikin: specifically those areas where there's an improvement opportunity and and make that

[1:23:32] Trustee Busheikin: manifest would it yeah where would it go and what role would the governance committee play

[1:23:36] Trustee Busheikin: um

[1:23:39] Voice 1: so the table beginning on page 47 uh you'll note that each of the sections has been broken out

[1:23:47] Voice 1: uh they've been grouped uh so the first section on page 47 the title is remuneration reviews

[1:23:53] Voice 1: reviews conducting reviews timing and frequency of reviews so staff have reviewed those kind of

[1:23:59] Voice 1: as a group and then at the top of page 48 you'll see potential recommendation from staff that's

[1:24:07] Voice 1: coming out of a review of those as a group so perhaps the the title comments and recommendations

[1:24:13] Voice 1: in that column is a bit misleading but that's where you'll see some recommendations falling

[1:24:17] Voice 1: out of the assessment where we see improvement opportunities staff would suggest if fpcc's

[1:24:22] Voice 1: value in amending the policy that you put a motion on the table to make policy amendments to that

[1:24:28] Voice 1: effect and then staff will will go away and make those amendments and take them forward to next

[1:24:32] Voice 1: trust council as far as the role that the governance committee can play I think there

[1:24:39] Voice 1: would be a role for them to play here I would look to director Marler who's probably best place to

[1:24:44] Voice 1: speak to that question but certainly this could be something that is reviewed by the governance

[1:24:50] Voice 1: committee before it goes to trust council uh

[1:24:56] Voice 2: did you want to speak to that chair yes

[1:24:59] Trustee Grove: please yeah

[1:25:00] Voice 2: nothing much to add other than uh it probably would be appropriate however the governance

[1:25:05] Voice 2: committee likely won't be established until march given the policy council just adopted

[1:25:11] Voice 2: so it could be some delay if that was the case laura

[1:25:15] Trustee Grove: boucher can your hand is up yeah thanks

[1:25:18] Trustee Busheikin: Thanks for that. I had another question, which is almost answered, but just to make sure I

[1:25:25] Trustee Busheikin: understand properly. I mean, I'm, I think, you know, 2010 is 12 years ago. And much has changed.

[1:25:35] Trustee Busheikin: So if we went with option two on page 48, that would then trigger carrying out a similar review

[1:25:47] Trustee Busheikin: view as the one done in 2010, somewhere towards the end of the next term. Is that correct?

[1:25:56] Voice 1: That is correct. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Our current policy is a bit silent on mandating periodic

[1:26:04] Voice 1: reviews and certainly silent on governing any independent reviews. So yes, that would make

[1:26:12] Voice 1: that change.

[1:26:13] Trustee Grove: Peter Luckin.

[1:26:16] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I sort of have a new sort of thought here that maybe is a bit of

[1:26:24] Trustee Luckham: a surprise and has maybe not been thought about or considered in relation to this trustee

[1:26:30] Trustee Luckham: remuneration policy. It does seem to me, however, that this is the time to raise it at the end of

[1:26:38] Trustee Luckham: a term prior to the beginning of a new term. And it's not specifically to do with trustee

[1:26:43] Trustee Luckham: remuneration, but to do with vice chair remuneration. And it revolves around the

[1:26:51] Trustee Luckham: methodology that was brought forward years ago about the fairness of the remuneration to

[1:26:57] Trustee Luckham: individual trustees based upon populations and folios within local trust committees.

[1:27:04] Trustee Luckham: And that seems to be fine. That is perfectly adequate. What I've noticed, and I'll just

[1:27:12] Trustee Luckham: just let you know that none of the vice chairs have raised this with me. I don't believe anyway.

[1:27:16] Trustee Luckham: Certainly the comments have come up in conversation with others that the vice chairs

[1:27:24] Trustee Luckham: take on the workload of individual local trust committees, which is equivalent to this workload

[1:27:30] Trustee Luckham: that individual trustees undertake other than individual public consultation, but in terms of

[1:27:36] Trustee Luckham: meeting preparation, all that sort of thing. And depending upon the size and population of the

[1:27:41] Trustee Luckham: islands and the frequency of the meetings, that work varies from one LTC to another. And there's

[1:27:48] Trustee Luckham: not, it's been suggested that the level of compensation for the vice chairs is not reflected

[1:27:55] Trustee Luckham: in the role of chairing a LTC that meets monthly versus one that meets quarterly. And I'd just

[1:28:03] Trustee Luckham: like to ask staff whether or not there's been reflection on that in the past and what and what

[1:28:08] Trustee Luckham: the avenue of uh might be to uh suggest that council might want to consider that uh in in the

[1:28:16] Trustee Luckham: future julia

[1:28:24] Trustee Grove: are you able to answer that i

[1:28:25] Voice 1: can try so the trustee remuneration policy does consider

[1:28:30] Voice 1: an increased level of remuneration for the vice chairs um and then a further increased level for

[1:28:35] Voice 1: the chair it is built into the policy and acknowledgement that there is an increased

[1:28:40] Voice 1: workload of course for vice chairs but I understand your question is that there's

[1:28:44] Voice 1: even a disparity between vice chairs depending on what local trust committee they may be chairing

[1:28:48] Voice 1: so there's nothing to consider that in the policy itself typically I believe that's a consideration

[1:28:55] Voice 1: made at the executive committee table when it's being determined which vice chairs will be taking

[1:29:02] Voice 1: on which LTCs, likely the policy is silent because it was anticipated there would be

[1:29:09] Voice 1: consideration of evening the workload during those decisions. If that's not something that

[1:29:14] Voice 1: happens and it needs to be built into policy, we could certainly make that change. I would think

[1:29:19] Voice 1: it is practicable to leave it as such and just assume that there's going to be a consideration

[1:29:25] Voice 1: of workloads when the decision is made of who's chairing which LTC.

[1:29:29] Voice 1: sure

[1:29:30] Trustee Luckham: so that's the key there is that in the appointments of vice chairs that the consideration

[1:29:36] Trustee Luckham: be given to workloads not just geography and um and the like okay well that's adequate that's a

[1:29:44] Trustee Luckham: good answer to the question thank you dan

[1:29:47] Trustee Rogers: rogers thanks i will assure you that there was no

[1:29:52] Trustee Rogers: consideration given about how that would affect our pay when we when we uh when we decide this

[1:29:59] Trustee Rogers: We'll be right back.

[1:30:00] Trustee Rogers: decided how to divvy up the various LTCs. It was sort of an organic process. Anyway,

[1:30:10] Trustee Rogers: my review is about all of this is I think that our process and our automatic adjustments

[1:30:19] Trustee Rogers: on our policy holds up well under scrutiny. I think that the way we sort of the mechanisms

[1:30:29] Trustee Rogers: we use to adjust salaries, et cetera, is indeed a good one.

[1:30:35] Trustee Rogers: And I don't think we need to drill down too deeply on it.

[1:30:40] Trustee Rogers: However, my view is two things.

[1:30:44] Trustee Rogers: One is I think that the baseline numbers are out of whack

[1:30:49] Trustee Rogers: to the kind of work that's expected of trustees.

[1:30:52] Trustee Rogers: And I think the governance review suggests that,

[1:30:55] Trustee Rogers: and that may play out as well with the baselines

[1:30:57] Trustee Rogers: for the for the the vice chairs so i do think that it's time uh and i'm not sure who suggested

[1:31:04] Trustee Rogers: this that a an independent uh review be done of the of the the fundamental baseline of the uh

[1:31:11] Trustee Rogers: of the um organ of the pay scales for the various um uh roles and and in particular because we have

[1:31:20] Trustee Rogers: this sort of complicated pyramid right we get a base for going to trust council and then each

[1:31:25] Trustee Rogers: trust committee gets trustee gets based on their own population and folios for their own area and

[1:31:32] Trustee Rogers: then there's an adjustment uh up for the vice chairs and i just think that sort of the numbers

[1:31:37] Trustee Rogers: that are used to calculate those things need perhaps need to be adjusted because i think the

[1:31:42] Trustee Rogers: work is greater than than is recognized in there so i think it's time for a 2010 type review again

[1:31:49] Trustee Rogers: i also think that review should consider what happens when people don't show up at trust

[1:31:54] Trustee Rogers: Council because that's the baseline number. You don't get your $100 if you don't show up

[1:32:01] Trustee Rogers: at a committee meeting so maybe you shouldn't get part of your baseline number if you don't

[1:32:05] Trustee Rogers: show up at your Trust Council meeting. Anyway, I would suggest that we recommend to the next FPC

[1:32:14] Trustee Rogers: that they recommend the Trust Council that they go ahead and do another independent review of

[1:32:23] Trustee Rogers: the remuneration and that that be the bud that's obviously going to have to be budgeted for because

[1:32:28] Trustee Rogers: but i think our process holds up well um i actually think going through this checklist i i'm

[1:32:34] Trustee Rogers: not was not disturbed by any of the places where we were out of whack with the uvm policy because

[1:32:40] Trustee Rogers: i think we're quite different than most other local governments anyway that's my view and i'll

[1:32:44] Trustee Rogers: hear what others say and i may make a motion about it thank

[1:32:49] Trustee Grove: you dan peter your hand is still up i

[1:32:51] Trustee Grove: I think you left it up before.

[1:32:53] Trustee Grove: Tim Peterson.

[1:32:57] Voice 3: Yeah, I just want to echo Trustee Bishakin's thoughts on,

[1:33:03] Voice 3: I think it would be appropriate if this table,

[1:33:10] Voice 3: if this information is forwarded

[1:33:13] Voice 3: to the Governance Committee when it is in fact reconstituted,

[1:33:20] Voice 3: specifically because it is mentioned in the report.

[1:33:23] Voice 3: so good

[1:33:24] Trustee Grove: thank you

[1:33:26] Voice 3: when it's

[1:33:27] Trustee Grove: appropriate thank you uh sue ellen and then kate louise

[1:33:30] Trustee Grove: thank

[1:33:32] Trustee Fast: you chair i'm just um looking at number 22 which is on page 53 about benefits and um

[1:33:40] Trustee Fast: i uh i think the benefits have changed a little bit this term we we added um another level of uh

[1:33:52] Trustee Fast: family support for different kinds of appointments that wasn't available before I didn't see it

[1:33:58] Trustee Fast: reflected there I wondered if it should be listed secondly under 22 I just wondered if we could

[1:34:06] Trustee Fast: add a note that Bowen municipal trustees participate in the Bowen benefits and not in this

[1:34:18] Trustee Fast: Because some people have asked me, well, they've assumed that we were included in this too, and Bowen municipal trustees are not.

[1:34:28] Trustee Fast: So there might be a note there, or at least for other trustees' interests.

[1:34:35] Trustee Fast: Julia?

[1:34:36] Trustee Fast: uh

[1:34:37] Voice 1: so number 19 uh talks about access to extended benefits and that's where we have a note that uh

[1:34:45] Voice 1: the extended benefits are are not accessible for municipal trustees oh thank you i missed it okay

[1:34:50] Voice 1: thank you um

[1:34:58] Trustee Grove: kate lee stanford sorry thanks

[1:35:01] Trustee Stamford: um i i just know that the timing is a little bit

[1:35:04] Trustee Stamford: awkward on this it really and i understand the reasons why but it would have been much better

[1:35:09] Trustee Stamford: to have this go to the governance committee or some kind of committee earlier in our term because

[1:35:15] Trustee Stamford: generally i've noticed um when policies for increases are considered it's towards the end

[1:35:23] Trustee Stamford: of the term um to give the benefit to the next term of of trustees um i'm not sure how we're

[1:35:33] Trustee Stamford: we're going to manage that coming into the new term,

[1:35:37] Trustee Stamford: but I think this is a good start

[1:35:41] Trustee Stamford: and I hope to see it at the governance committee,

[1:35:44] Trustee Stamford: which I hope to be a part of.

[1:35:45] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[1:35:46] Trustee Grove: Laura Bushekin.

[1:35:49] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, thanks.

[1:35:52] Trustee Busheikin: I think that's a really good point, Kate Louise,

[1:35:56] Trustee Busheikin: and that's why I,

[1:35:57] Trustee Busheikin: and I agree with Trustee Rogers' suggestion

[1:36:00] Trustee Busheikin: and his emphasis that a new external study would be great.

[1:36:06] Trustee Busheikin: And I note that the recommendation

[1:36:11] Trustee Busheikin: for a potential policy amendment

[1:36:14] Trustee Busheikin: is to have that review happen towards the end of term.

[1:36:19] Trustee Busheikin: So then I think the way this would happen

[1:36:23] Trustee Busheikin: is that these are policy amendments,

[1:36:26] Trustee Busheikin: they're putting things in place,

[1:36:27] Trustee Busheikin: they're not changing any remuneration

[1:36:29] Trustee Busheikin: Because I agree that is a complex thing to wrap your head around in the first year of a term when you've just been elected that you're going to vote to give yourself a raise.

[1:36:38] Trustee Busheikin: So it'll be done towards the end of term as long as council adopts these amendments, which I think they're all very well supported and make sense and follow best practices.

[1:36:51] Trustee Busheikin: So I think council would do that.

[1:36:52] Trustee Busheikin: And I do think, you know, part of this is what happens when people are deciding whether to run for office or not, and that's already happened.

[1:37:02] Trustee Busheikin: So if there is a good reason to change trustee remuneration substantially or somewhat, as long as that happens well in advance of the end of term, I think that would be a good direction forward.

[1:37:16] Trustee Busheikin: So I would go with that recommendation on page 48, option 2, as Director Mobb suggested, and I would put that on the floor at some point.

[1:37:28] Trustee Grove: Thank you. So this was a briefing only? Do we have any action that we wish to direct staff to carry out? Are we all

[1:37:40] Trustee Grove: happy to leave it like this?

[1:37:41] Trustee Grove: I'd

[1:37:42] Trustee Rogers: actually like to move that the that FPC recommend to the next financial planning

[1:37:48] Trustee Rogers: committee they consider an independent review of the remuneration policy good

[1:37:55] Trustee Grove: idea that's moved

[1:37:56] Trustee Grove: by trustee Rogers is there a second after that Sue Ellen Fass thank you any further discussion

[1:38:06] Trustee Grove: Laura Boushekin yeah

[1:38:10] Trustee Busheikin: I am I'm a little uneasy with this quite honestly although I very much

[1:38:15] Trustee Busheikin: supportive but i think that it's um it's not good strategy to suggest this at the beginning of the

[1:38:21] Trustee Busheikin: term and if you look at the the staff suggested on page 48 it's um it's that the trustee remuneration

[1:38:29] Trustee Busheikin: remuneration policy be amended to include consideration of an independent remuneration

[1:38:36] Trustee Busheikin: review by either task force or consultants once per trustee term at least one year before the

[1:38:41] Trustee Busheikin: the end of term um which is a little uh it's more indirect but it's actually changing policy so that

[1:38:47] Trustee Busheikin: this then becomes policy um and we could even strengthen it and rather than have consideration

[1:38:53] Trustee Busheikin: but simply to carry out um and then it has to happen um it has to happen down the road and

[1:38:59] Trustee Busheikin: has to happen um uh once per trustee term

[1:39:03] Trustee Grove: julia i'd like to see

[1:39:05] Trustee Grove: julia you had a hand up i did

[1:39:08] Voice 1: Yeah, I just wanted to, I mean, I was going down the path that Trustee Bershaken has just mentioned

[1:39:14] Voice 1: and also want to clarify that any review that happens, even if it's at the start of the term

[1:39:18] Voice 1: or midterm, the best practice recommendation is that any changes to remuneration be implemented

[1:39:23] Voice 1: at the start of the next term so that there isn't that actual or perceived conflict of interest.

[1:39:31] Voice 4: Okay. Anything else? Any other comments?

[1:39:40] Trustee Rogers: so i i'm okay with that well i don't know i i've never been particularly fussed on timing but

[1:39:48] Trustee Rogers: i'm not going to be here and if others believe it should be more along the lines of something

[1:39:53] Trustee Rogers: later in the term that's fine i can i'll vote against my motion if people want to put that

[1:39:58] Trustee Rogers: motion

[1:39:59] Trustee Busheikin: forward if we vote this one down um

[1:40:04] Trustee Grove: so we have a motion was it seconded

[1:40:08] Trustee Fast: Yes, unfortunately, I seconded it. I was

[1:40:10] Trustee Fast: looking at the wrong option too,

[1:40:12] Trustee Fast: so I thought it was different. There's several things called option two.

[1:40:16] Trustee Fast: So I'd be prepared to vote against it as well.

[1:40:20] Trustee Grove: Okay, so I will call the vote in that case. All in favour of this motion, raise your electronic

[1:40:27] Trustee Grove: hands.

[1:40:30] Voice 4: Those against, raise your hands. The motion fails. Thank you.

[1:40:42] Trustee Grove: So the only remaining thing is

[1:40:46] Trustee Busheikin: Yes. Yeah. Hello.

[1:40:49] Trustee Busheikin: So I'd like to put actually probably several motions on the floor. And just

[1:40:54] Trustee Busheikin: before I do that, I want to just check with Director Mobs. It's my understanding that to

[1:41:00] Trustee Busheikin: move anything forward based on this analysis, we should be making all the motions suggested

[1:41:07] Trustee Busheikin: in option two. Is that correct?

[1:41:12] Voice 1: Not, you know, all of them are not necessary. It's

[1:41:14] Voice 1: at the will of the committee which ones they would like to recommend be amended in the policy so this

[1:41:20] Voice 1: is a council policy uh fpc gave staff direction to do a review against best practices not to make

[1:41:26] Voice 1: policy amendments um themselves and so that's why it's being presented to the committee in this

[1:41:30] Voice 1: manner but certainly if this financial planning committee wants to recommend either to a future

[1:41:35] Voice 1: fpc or to council that they include uh or make amendments to the policy based on those

[1:41:41] Voice 1: recommendations then absolutely what you're about to do would make sense okay

[1:41:46] Trustee Busheikin: so could we then could

[1:41:48] Trustee Busheikin: i'm looking again at option two at the top of page 48 um because yes there are various options one

[1:41:55] Trustee Busheikin: and two then would the motion be to ask staff to bring back to fpc an amended policy for

[1:42:06] Trustee Busheikin: consideration would that be a good way forward because it's true we can't really amend the policy

[1:42:13] Trustee Busheikin: Okay, I'm going to do that. So this is the option number two at page 48. So and I hope I can do this

[1:42:19] Trustee Busheikin: smoothly. I move that FPC request staff to bring back an amended trustee remuneration policy.

[1:42:39] Trustee Busheikin: And then the rest of the wording is from that option too. I hope that can help you out, Robert.

[1:42:47] Trustee Busheikin: that includes consideration of an independent remuneration review by either task force or

[1:42:59] Trustee Busheikin: consultant once per trustee term so this is all what's in that option too at least one year before

[1:43:06] Trustee Busheikin: the end of term laura

[1:43:20] Voice 4: your hand is up oh and tim peterson your hand was up okay i was just

[1:43:28] Voice 4: second thing good so we happy with that

[1:43:36] Trustee Grove: um draft up on the board let's

[1:43:39] Trustee Fast: wait until he finishes

[1:43:40] Trustee Fast: pasting in the rest chair

[1:43:44] Voice 14: could you if i could ask um just a clarification where in the agenda

[1:43:49] Voice 14: package i'm pulling out material page

[1:43:51] Trustee Busheikin: 48 uh near the top or i can just read it again so

[1:43:55] Trustee Busheikin: do you want me to read it again more slowly no

[1:43:58] Voice 14: i just need to find it so i can collect it i think

[1:44:01] Voice 14: page

[1:44:01] Trustee Busheikin: 48 option two there it is

[1:44:03] Trustee Busheikin: oh yeah

[1:44:04] Trustee Busheikin: oh i'm pointing at my screen that's not going to help

[1:44:07] Trustee Busheikin: anyone

[1:44:07] Voice 4: if

[1:44:09] Trustee Fast: you just use from the word include consideration of yes

[1:44:13] Voice 4: thank you suelen does that

[1:44:32] Voice 14: look accurate it

[1:44:34] Trustee Busheikin: does but there's two include and it have includes includes so the second include

[1:44:39] Trustee Busheikin: food should be taken out as a pasting a pasting issue

[1:44:43] Voice 4: that looks good all right okay

[1:45:01] Trustee Grove: so i will

[1:45:03] Trustee Grove: call the vote then all those in favor please raise their electronic hands then lower your hands

[1:45:16] Trustee Grove: any contrary raise your hands that's unanimous what a fine way to end the day laura bouchakin

[1:45:25] Trustee Grove: has her hand up

[1:45:26] Trustee Busheikin: it's the day is not over yet and there's i mean if you look through this chart

[1:45:31] Trustee Busheikin: there's numerous areas that are where there is improvement opportunity and I

[1:45:39] Trustee Busheikin: don't see why we should ignore those so I'd actually like to I believe I'm just

[1:45:46] Trustee Busheikin: looking through it again I would like to move that the and I'm gonna say what I'm

[1:45:55] Trustee Busheikin: to do and maybe hear if staff have any or anyone else input that all the um they're not quite

[1:46:02] Trustee Busheikin: recommendations but the option two after every section is the way to move forward on the areas

[1:46:09] Trustee Busheikin: where uh improvement opportunity was identified and since we're asking staff to work on this

[1:46:16] Trustee Busheikin: um and i think we all no one had um no one argued with what was in this magnificent table i'd like

[1:46:24] Trustee Busheikin: like to go ahead and move all of these option twos so the

[1:46:28] Trustee Busheikin: next one so i'm happy to hear from

[1:46:30] Trustee Busheikin: staff or any trustee who doesn't want to do it that way so

[1:46:35] Trustee Fast: robert i think the next one is on

[1:46:37] Trustee Fast: page 52 is that correct no 39 oh

[1:46:41] Voice 3: if i may yeah

[1:46:43] Trustee Fast: go

[1:46:44] Voice 3: ahead uh yeah i just wonder uh i mean we just

[1:46:48] Voice 3: just ask staff to do some work on this.

[1:46:52] Voice 3: And I mean, I would presume that they would look

[1:46:55] Voice 3: at all of those areas.

[1:46:57] Voice 3: And I mean, we did just note that we don't get

[1:47:00] Voice 3: to change policy only to recommend to trust council.

[1:47:03] Voice 3: So this maybe we can hear from staff.

[1:47:05] Voice 3: I would have just assumed they would go through

[1:47:07] Voice 3: all those options in their reporting.

[1:47:11] Voice 4: What

[1:47:11] Trustee Grove: do you say, Julia?

[1:47:15] Voice 1: So if there is additional work that the committee wishes

[1:47:18] Voice 1: for staff to do over this,

[1:47:20] Voice 1: certainly direction to that effect would be welcome. To Trustee Bershaken's point if there's

[1:47:26] Voice 1: no issue with the options that are presented in the table to address improvement opportunities

[1:47:31] Voice 1: a single motion to move that financial planning committee request staff to bring back draft

[1:47:36] Voice 1: policy amendments to address the improvement opportunities identified in this assessment

[1:47:42] Voice 1: would be sufficient and then staff will go away we'll draft policy language to capture

[1:47:48] Voice 1: these improvements and then we'll either take it forward to the next FPC or the next governance committee or to Trust Council or all of those bodies.

[1:48:00] Trustee Busheikin: Sounds perfect. So I could have actually done that rather than the last motion. So I will attempt to make that motion.

[1:48:14] Trustee Busheikin: Sorry, someone else I think had a comment. I saw a hand.

[1:48:18] Trustee Grove: I did not see a hand.

[1:48:20] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. Robert, could I see on the screen the previous motion I made,

[1:48:27] Trustee Busheikin: and that might help me make this motion clearly?

[1:48:34] Trustee Busheikin: Okay. So I'm going to, I mean, I didn't need to make that, but it doesn't matter.

[1:48:39] Trustee Busheikin: Request staff to bring back policy amendments to,

[1:48:49] Trustee Busheikin: I mean, you could just take the beginning of the previous sentence that financial planning committee requests staff to bring back an amended trust remuneration policy that includes consideration of, and then I'll finish it differently.

[1:49:12] Trustee Busheikin: And I don't remember exactly what Director Mobb said, but hopefully what I say will mean the same things.

[1:49:20] Trustee Busheikin: that includes consideration of

[1:49:24] Voice 4: the improvement opportunities identified in

[1:49:52] Voice 4: appendix a appendix a and

[1:49:59] Trustee Busheikin: i think it would be good to have just i don't know to have the whole

[1:50:04] Trustee Busheikin: name of appendix a so it is at the top of of appendix a which is the chart if robert if that

[1:50:12] Trustee Busheikin: That helps your eye can read out the name of Appendix A.

[1:50:15] Trustee Busheikin: It is Appendix A colon assessment of

[1:50:25] Voice 4: UBCM elected official and

[1:50:36] Trustee Busheikin: board remuneration guide and policy 7.2.1 trustee remuneration.

[1:50:56] Voice 4: Just so someone reading the motion knows what we're talking about.

[1:51:02] Voice 4: And I think that I think that works.

[1:51:05] Voice 4: thank you we are we happy and

[1:51:18] Trustee Grove: if so could you have a seconder please

[1:51:19] Trustee Grove: suelen fast is seconding it i

[1:51:27] Voice 4: see or trustee stanford whichever your

[1:51:30] Trustee Grove: finger were up was up

[1:51:31] Trustee Grove: first suelen any further discussion hearing none those in favor please raise your electronic hand

[1:51:45] Trustee Grove: lower

[1:51:50] Voice 4: your hand any

[1:51:53] Trustee Grove: contrary that carries unanimously thank you so much

[1:51:58] Trustee Grove: Thank you very much.

[1:52:01] Trustee Grove: Tim Peterson.

[1:52:04] Voice 3: Yes, thank you, Chair.

[1:52:06] Voice 3: I felt like we kind of whizzed by it

[1:52:08] Voice 3: and I just wanted to have a quick look back

[1:52:15] Voice 3: at the briefing on possible policy changes

[1:52:18] Voice 3: regarding accumulated surplus.

[1:52:20] Voice 3: I was just thinking about,

[1:52:21] Voice 3: maybe staff could help me with this.

[1:52:24] Voice 3: I just think it would be important for the new FPC

[1:52:27] Voice 3: to have that show up for their consideration.

[1:52:33] Voice 3: I think it would be ideal if it showed up after the budget process so after March Trust Council

[1:52:40] Voice 3: but um if that's going to happen as a matter of course

[1:52:42] Voice 4: then I don't we don't need to take any

[1:52:44] Voice 4: action um I can

[1:52:51] Voice 1: comment on

[1:52:51] Voice 4: that if you like yes

[1:52:53] Voice 4: so because

[1:52:54] Voice 1: uh FPC uh made a motion for some

[1:52:58] Voice 1: additional work to be done and then this policy to be brought back to the incoming FPC um I I would

[1:53:04] Voice 1: would bring back some of the historical reports

[1:53:05] Voice 1: just to inform the financial planning committee.

[1:53:07] Voice 1: If you wanted that to happen at a particular time,

[1:53:10] Voice 1: you indicated after budget made sense,

[1:53:13] Voice 1: then it would be good to make that motion.

[1:53:16] Voice 3: Okay, well, I mean, is it real?

[1:53:20] Voice 3: It's especially this,

[1:53:23] Voice 3: but that specific time being after budget is that actually,

[1:53:27] Voice 3: I think you require a motion to specify that,

[1:53:31] Voice 3: or is it just in the matter of course of business

[1:53:33] Voice 3: business likely to not show up before then?

[1:53:37] Voice 1: It may or may not. It may be something that

[1:53:40] Voice 1: will be on the follow-up action list. And if new term FPC sees it there and wants to see it as part

[1:53:45] Voice 1: of the budget process, then we would bring it forward early.

[1:53:48] Voice 3: Okay. I'm just going to leave it

[1:53:50] Voice 3: alone. Thank you. Okay.

[1:53:53] Trustee Grove: Thank you. So can we now move on to 8.1, which is the draft letter for the

[1:54:01] Trustee Grove: the Financial Planning Committee's review. This is to the chair of the next Financial Planning

[1:54:06] Trustee Grove: Committee from myself, and any input, thoughts would be welcome. Peter Luckham has his hands up.

[1:54:14] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, sorry, Chair. I actually missed an opportunity earlier and would not like to

[1:54:20] Trustee Luckham: miss the opportunity now to just speak about the special property tax requisition. We moved on

[1:54:28] Trustee Luckham: there before i was hit the trigger okay

[1:54:32] Trustee Grove: go ahead all

[1:54:33] Trustee Luckham: right i i just feel inclined that i don't want

[1:54:37] Trustee Luckham: to miss the opportunity that uh trustee patrick has brought up with respect to how the property

[1:54:43] Trustee Luckham: special property tax levy is um is levied against all the property owners within a local trust

[1:54:53] Trustee Luckham: Committee. Because the special property tax requisition, I think, is an inadequately

[1:55:01] Trustee Luckham: utilized tool that's available for LTCs to take on some activities. And I can imagine here on

[1:55:07] Trustee Luckham: Thetis as an example, that if I was to do something here, let's just say with respect to trails on

[1:55:13] Trustee Luckham: Thetis, the folks on Valdez and Reed and Ruxton Island may not feel the same way that they want

[1:55:19] Trustee Luckham: to pay for trails on on uh this island and that's just as an example and it does and certainly i

[1:55:26] Trustee Luckham: understand that the legislation is is set and i certainly understand that the taxation authority

[1:55:32] Trustee Luckham: itself would probably be not happy about having to do yet another um calculation and distribution of

[1:55:40] Trustee Luckham: the tax to uh individual islands rather than just the entire area but i think that it's worthy of us

[1:55:47] Trustee Luckham: considering a future council to investigate what the options are around that so that it might be

[1:55:56] Trustee Luckham: more flexible for even a small island to come forward and say, we want to have a special

[1:56:02] Trustee Luckham: property tax requisition to do X, Y, Z on our island, and we don't expect the whole trust area

[1:56:08] Trustee Luckham: to pay for it. And so I would just like to ask through the chair, the director, what she would

[1:56:16] Trustee Luckham: would suggest there and would that be um uh something that we should pursue is something

[1:56:22] Trustee Luckham: along the lines of that fpc recommend that a future uh uh committee um investigate options for

[1:56:32] Trustee Luckham: um uh not um levying special property tax requisition against all islands in a trust area

[1:56:41] Trustee Luckham: Yeah,

[1:56:46] Voice 1: so that's an interesting question. That would be something that would require a legislative change. And then, as you've alluded to, a subsequent change with the surveyor of taxes, because there would need to be borders drawn sort of within local trust areas to determine who's being taxed for a project and who's not.

[1:57:05] Voice 1: not. So I'm truthfully not even certain of whether or not that would be a possibility.

[1:57:12] Voice 1: It would be something that would require some advocacy work. And I do see Director Freighter's

[1:57:17] Voice 1: turn on her video, which means she probably has something to add. And so I'd welcome her

[1:57:21] Voice 1: comments through the chair, if I may. Please.

[1:57:25] Voice 1: Yes, this would be

[1:57:26] Voice 9: advocacy for legislative change.

[1:57:29] Voice 9: If that is something you wanted to pursue, it could be a recommendation that you make

[1:57:32] Voice 9: to either a future FPC to consider or you could make a resolution to ask executive committee to

[1:57:38] Voice 9: consider taking it on if it was felt that this was a recommended priority of the next term.

[1:57:48] Trustee Luckham: So I am inclined to want to make a motion to ask the future FPC to consider options for

[1:57:55] Trustee Luckham: legislative changes with respect to um uh fair uh application of special property tax requisitions

[1:58:08] Trustee Luckham: within a trust area so

[1:58:11] Trustee Grove: that's a motion duly made is there a seconder tim peterson sorry julia

[1:58:21] Voice 1: friendly amendment maybe to uh not use the word fair maybe to say revised okay

[1:58:27] Trustee Luckham: thank you that

[1:58:27] Trustee Luckham: that

[1:58:27] Voice 1: can be interpreted in different ways by many okay

[1:58:30] Trustee Luckham: thank you so

[1:58:32] Trustee Grove: motion is made and seconded

[1:58:34] Trustee Grove: um can we see that sir robert are

[1:58:48] Voice 4: you there robert barlow yes i

[1:58:50] Voice 14: am yes uh but no i did not get it

[1:58:53] Voice 14: i didn't realize that it was so but i do have a recording of it if um or someone can tell me what

[1:59:00] Voice 14: it is that uh is let

[1:59:03] Trustee Luckham: me let me try this again because i think it's appropriate that the

[1:59:06] Trustee Luckham: the committees see what the motion is.

[1:59:09] Trustee Luckham: So I would move that the financial planning committee

[1:59:14] Trustee Luckham: recommend to the future financial planning committee

[1:59:18] Trustee Luckham: that options regarding legislative change.

[1:59:22] Trustee Luckham: Oh, hold on please.

[1:59:24] Voice 14: Options regarding legislative changes?

[1:59:27] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[1:59:29] Voice 14: Yes.

[1:59:29] Voice 14: To

[1:59:30] Trustee Luckham: support a revised distribution

[1:59:36] Trustee Luckham: of a special property tax,

[1:59:39] Trustee Luckham: requisition in a trust area i'll

[1:59:52] Voice 4: just ask staff if that seems appropriate wording

[2:00:03] Voice 4: Yeah, I think that's fine.

[2:00:06] Trustee Grove: Louise Stamford has her hand up.

[2:00:09] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you.

[2:00:11] Trustee Stamford: I'm just wondering, this is more than just Ireland's trust area

[2:00:15] Trustee Stamford: that has this type of restriction in the policies.

[2:00:19] Trustee Stamford: Is it not the same for regional districts?

[2:00:23] Trustee Stamford: They all have that?

[2:00:29] Trustee Luckham: I'm not aware of that.

[2:00:30] Trustee Luckham: Yeah,

[2:00:32] Trustee Stamford: as far as I understand that, they also can't just do part of an area. They have to do a full area for taxation. So anyway, just something I'm going to look into more.

[2:00:46] Trustee Stamford: are well

[2:00:49] Voice 1: i believe i believe there is some truth um to what trustee stanford is saying there there

[2:00:55] Voice 1: are limitations as to how much you can break it down i i'm uncertain if local governments can get

[2:01:00] Voice 1: down to a neighborhood um or sort of what what the borders are um but there is similar if not

[2:01:07] Voice 1: identical uh restrictions on other regional districts and local governments so

[2:01:12] Trustee Stamford: i guess in

[2:01:12] Trustee Stamford: to comment back it may be in the end that this be looked at as a as a wider advocacy ask um

[2:01:20] Trustee Stamford: for other governments as well uh

[2:01:24] Trustee Luckham: yep i just want to provide that opportunity to address those

[2:01:30] Trustee Luckham: concepts that were raised i think yeah

[2:01:34] Trustee Grove: so we have yes um

[2:01:38] Voice 14: i don't think the motion is complete yet

[2:01:42] Voice 14: what are these options regarding let changes oh

[2:01:51] Trustee Luckham: i see that the staff uh uh advise regarding

[2:01:55] Trustee Luckham: legislative changes options regarding legislation sorry

[2:02:01] Voice 14: could you i'm not sure what you want what

[2:02:04] Voice 14: amendment you want

[2:02:05] Trustee Luckham: i'll read it carefully i think

[2:02:10] Voice 3: you could maybe like be

[2:02:11] Voice 3: explored on the end or

[2:02:12] Voice 3: something thank

[2:02:13] Trustee Luckham: you very much yeah be

[2:02:16] Voice 4: explored does

[2:02:20] Trustee Fast: that capture what you wanted to say which was

[2:02:23] Trustee Fast: one island out of a local trust area

[2:02:25] Voice 4: um that's very

[2:02:28] Voice 4: general what it says there maybe within

[2:02:35] Voice 3: instead of in the local trust area yeah

[2:02:39] Trustee Luckham: that's that would be correct

[2:02:40] Voice 3: within yep

[2:02:44] that

[2:02:45] Voice 4: gets a little closer yeah thank you i should have thought it through earlier

[2:02:56] Trustee Grove: so that motion is made has it been seconded yet tim peterson is seconding it any further

[2:03:03] Trustee Grove: discussion hearing none those in favor please raise your electronic

[2:03:10] Voice 4: hand they lower your hand

[2:03:16] Voice 4: any

[2:03:19] Trustee Grove: contrary please please raise your electronic hand laura boucher and your contrary yeah and

[2:03:26] Trustee Grove: And Peter Luckham, you're contrary?

[2:03:29] Trustee Luckham: No, my hand, sorry, it's supposed to be down.

[2:03:32] Trustee Grove: Okay, so, but Laura, so one against,

[2:03:36] Trustee Grove: otherwise, so the motion carries.

[2:03:38] Trustee Grove: Thank you very much.

[2:03:39] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, counsel or committee.

[2:03:43] Trustee Grove: So can we move on to 8.1 now?

[2:03:46] Voice 5: Yes.

[2:03:47] Trustee Grove: So this is a draft letter,

[2:03:52] Trustee Grove: which staff very kindly put together for me

[2:03:54] Trustee Grove: with some input from myself.

[2:03:56] Trustee Grove: and i'm open to your suggestions as to what would be helpful for the new chair of the new committee

[2:04:03] Trustee Grove: laura bushekin um

[2:04:11] Trustee Busheikin: yeah this isn't about content but i think this would be useful if it could be

[2:04:15] Trustee Busheikin: cc to the whole committee the

[2:04:19] Trustee Grove: existing committee no

[2:04:21] Trustee Busheikin: the future committee ah yes

[2:04:24] Trustee Busheikin: incoming yes and

[2:04:26] Trustee Busheikin: And also, you know, all these chair letters to committees, it would be great if the incoming council members could see them before they, you know, before they choose which committee they want to join.

[2:04:39] Trustee Grove: That's a very good point.

[2:04:40] Trustee Busheikin: Yeah, all of them, because they're helpful in actually telling you what the work really is.

[2:04:48] Trustee Busheikin: I don't think we need a motion, right?

[2:04:50] Trustee Busheikin: I think that staff are hearing that and could make a note, or should we have a motion to that effect?

[2:04:58] Voice 9: no I've just heard it your timing's impeccable thank you I will convey that to the CAO we're

[2:05:03] Voice 9: just trying to sort out it's a

[2:05:05] Trustee Grove: very good idea Sue Ellen Fast thank

[2:05:08] Trustee Fast: you chair it's a good letter I

[2:05:10] Trustee Fast: just have one suggestion and that's to change the word guidance to you as chair to advice

[2:05:17] Trustee Fast: I think people are more likely to take advice than guidance and might make it a little more

[2:05:23] Trustee Fast: palatable and i like it but it's just an idea i

[2:05:28] Trustee Grove: thought you were suggesting it was a not a

[2:05:29] Trustee Grove: gender neutral word i'm

[2:05:36] Voice 4: sure all trustees they all would like it yeah

[2:05:40] Trustee Grove: i was trying to be funny

[2:05:43] Trustee Grove: nobody picked up on it but that's fine thank you peter luckham okay so i think that brings us to

[2:05:50] Trustee Grove: the end of um oh no we have to go back to uh the minutes i

[2:05:55] Voice 1: do have a quick comment uh

[2:05:57] Trustee Grove: trustee

[2:05:58] Voice 1: rogers had to leave but he did leave a note in the chat um he wanted to suggest uh that the chair

[2:06:05] Voice 1: consider including in the letter that an independent member of fpc be added so i just wanted to make

[2:06:11] Voice 1: sure his suggestion was received an

[2:06:14] Trustee Luckham: independent member of fpc be what be

[2:06:18] Voice 1: added um so i believe

[2:06:21] Voice 1: he's suggesting um the inclusion of an fpc member as an as an independent a non-trustee

[2:06:27] Voice 1: I

[2:06:30] Trustee Grove: don't understand that either what is a non-trustee uh

[2:06:37] Voice 1: so somebody who would sit on

[2:06:39] Voice 1: financial planning committee who's not a trustee who could just uh bring perhaps a specific skill

[2:06:44] Voice 1: set or just a level of independence so we do already have an appointed member of the conservancy

[2:06:51] Voice 1: board you know so that's a representative which sometimes is is not a trustee three

[2:06:57] Voice 1: um so that's how i interpret uh his suggestion of course he's not here to speak to it himself

[2:07:05] Trustee Luckham: well that's also a governance review potentials topic of which is complex

[2:07:12] Trustee Grove: anyway let's um thank him for that comment so um we need to return to 6.1.2 which is the minutes

[2:07:18] Trustee Grove: of today's meeting i can't believe we have minutes yeah i

[2:07:28] Voice 4: think it just means that they're

[2:07:30] Trustee Fast: going to come to us with an rwm is

[2:07:33] Trustee Grove: that the plan yes i got the idea that robert was going to flash

[2:07:37] Trustee Grove: something up

[2:07:38] Voice 5: no

[2:07:39] Trustee Grove: okay recommendation

[2:07:40] Trustee Fast: okay

[2:07:41] Trustee Grove: an rwm

[2:07:42] Voice 3: would be good robert is amazing but i think that's

[2:07:44] Voice 3: a little

[2:07:44] Trustee Grove: too

[2:07:45] Voice 3: much i'll

[2:07:47] Trustee Fast: read the motion it's recommended that f um that that fpc uh conduct

[2:07:54] Trustee Fast: I move that FPC conduct an RWM to approve the draft minutes

[2:08:00] Trustee Fast: prior to the end of the current term.

[2:08:03] Trustee Grove: Thank you, Sue Ellen.

[2:08:05] Trustee Grove: Is there a seconder?

[2:08:06] Trustee Grove: Second.

[2:08:07] Trustee Grove: Tim Peterson, and just raise your hands.

[2:08:11] Trustee Grove: If you're in favor, raise your electronic hands, please.

[2:08:18] Trustee Grove: And that is unanimous, I believe.

[2:08:24] Trustee Grove: So we have no closed meeting

[2:08:28] Trustee Grove: unless somebody particularly wanted one.

[2:08:30] Trustee Grove: Peter Luckham has his hand up.

[2:08:33] Trustee Luckham: a leftover sorry okay

[2:08:35] Trustee Grove: um so that is um good heavens the end of a very long um and enjoyable

[2:08:45] Trustee Grove: relationship with this uh committee um thank you all it's been a good four years i think um and uh

[2:08:52] Trustee Grove: for some of us um it's been longer for me it's been 11 years on the financial planning committee

[2:08:57] Trustee Grove: and eight years as the chair and so I just want to thank you all this the committee members this

[2:09:04] Trustee Grove: year but also in particular and most importantly our wonderful staff really really top of the list

[2:09:12] Trustee Grove: is Julia Mobs you have been and continue to be outstanding I've worked with you for eight years

[2:09:18] Trustee Grove: and have enjoyed it enormously and I have to say I will miss you and but also of course thanks to

[2:09:24] Trustee Grove: to Russ and to Stefan and David and Claire and to Nancy.

[2:09:29] Trustee Grove: This, you have-

[2:09:31] Trustee Grove: And Robert.

[2:09:31] Trustee Grove: And Robert, nope, don't forget Robert.

[2:09:34] Trustee Grove: It's been, they are outstanding, each and every one,

[2:09:38] Trustee Grove: and have contributed enormously to our success.

[2:09:43] Trustee Grove: The Financial Planning Committee,

[2:09:45] Trustee Grove: as Chair Luckham has mentioned many times,

[2:09:47] Trustee Grove: is the most important committee of Trust Council.

[2:09:52] Trustee Grove: and without it's money that makes the world go around as we all know very well

[2:09:59] Trustee Grove: and I hope that the next committee and some of you may indeed be on that will be as fruitful

[2:10:07] Trustee Grove: and successful in any event for those of you who are running for re-election good luck to you

[2:10:14] Trustee Grove: and for those who aren't returning a happy life and hopefully I'd like to think somehow we will

[2:10:22] Trustee Grove: all keep in touch best wishes and thank you uh

[2:10:27] Trustee Luckham: chair um might i just say thank uh thank you um

[2:10:33] Trustee Luckham: um but uh uh certainly echo all of the remarks we've made with staff and our colleagues on

[2:10:41] Trustee Luckham: financial planning committee but i want to singularly um thank you chair uh grove for

[2:10:47] Trustee Luckham: excellent chairmanship of the financial planning committee over this last eight years

[2:10:51] Trustee Luckham: you've managed to try to trod a very fine line between uh accounting detail and uh meeting

[2:10:59] Trustee Luckham: chairing and have been very successful in that and i want to give you my heartfelt thanks for

[2:11:05] Trustee Luckham: that work thank you thank you i

[2:11:09] Voice 1: would echo all of that sentiment it's been wonderful to work with

[2:11:12] Voice 1: this financial planning committee um i can only hope to get a committee that size excellent for

[2:11:17] Voice 1: next term

[2:11:17] Trustee Grove: you'll never get one as good as this ever goodbye thank you bye everybody