Islands Trust Financial Planning Committee regular meeting, January 18, 2023

[0:00:00] Voice 16: Okay, then. Thank you for that. And welcome, everyone, to the Financial Planning Committee meeting of, I've lost track of time. Is it February 17th today? 18th?

[0:00:15] Voice 16: January.

[0:00:17] Voice 16: Right. Okay. There you go. And we're meeting broadly across the trust area and the territories of many Coast Salish nations, and we want to have a moment to respect that.

[0:00:32] Voice 16: in the spirit of reconciliation.

[0:00:34] Voice 16: If any of the trustees would like to put an acknowledgement

[0:00:40] Voice 16: in the chat, that's one of the things that's done

[0:00:42] Voice 16: in some committees in the past.

[0:00:45] Voice 16: And given that we are going to try and give trustee Graham

[0:00:51] Voice 16: an opportunity to join us for the election part,

[0:00:55] Voice 16: I would suggest that we could have a,

[0:00:59] Voice 16: we could start by item 3.1 which is a review of the agenda and who would like to take us there

[0:01:07] Voice 16: is that you julia uh

[0:01:12] Voice 2: so review of the agenda overall is just uh for the committee to have

[0:01:17] Voice 2: a look at see if there's any changes or um amendments to the order of things that the

[0:01:22] Voice 2: committee wishes to make before the meeting uh starts okay

[0:01:26] Voice 16: so we don't have any late items or

[0:01:28] Voice 16: anything like that uh trustee sorry

[0:01:30] Voice 6: tim um may i speak yes

[0:01:37] Voice 16: oh sorry i just called the partner yeah

[0:01:38] Voice 6: no problem and i'd like to add an item to the agenda which is a budget revision proposal and

[0:01:46] Voice 6: i have two items that i can forward to robert that will be of use when we have the discussion around

[0:01:53] Voice 6: it thank you okay

[0:01:58] Voice 16: so that is that's one item or two then is it two items or one it's

[0:02:04] Voice 6: one item but

[0:02:05] Voice 6: i will forward two pieces of electronic paper to robert to to support the discussion at the time

[0:02:15] Voice 6: and

[0:02:17] Voice 16: um so that sorry go ahead cao did you have a comment well

[0:02:22] Voice 12: i think before you amend an agenda

[0:02:24] Voice 12: Sandra, you have to know what the topic would be in general.

[0:02:28] Voice 16: Yeah, I was just going to ask about that and also just a not a stern, but a reminder that it's always best to bring extra items to the agenda, if at all possible, prior to the meeting actually beginning.

[0:02:45] Voice 16: So, Trustee Boland, do you want to let us have a little bit more information, please?

[0:02:49] Voice 16: Sure. The title is

[0:02:50] Voice 6: Budget Revisions, a proposal that I prepared.

[0:02:53] Voice 6: paired with a couple of other people and I did consult some but not everyone um because of the

[0:03:00] Voice 6: nature of this and the constraints around you know our ability to discuss and of course you know the

[0:03:08] Voice 6: changes are relative to the uh draft that came out in the minutes which I think was fairly recent

[0:03:16] Voice 6: So, yeah, so I don't, you know, it's called budget revisions and it's a proposal around some reductions that we could make to achieve less of a tax increase.

[0:03:34] Voice 16: Okay. And I would also just, I'm going to leave it up to the committee as to whether we want to include this.

[0:03:43] Voice 16: and just again, in a friendly collegial manner,

[0:03:48] Voice 16: just remind you that even a proposal like this

[0:03:54] Voice 16: would have been nice, I think,

[0:03:55] Voice 16: for most committee members to have a chance to look at

[0:03:58] Voice 16: prior to the beginning of this meeting,

[0:04:00] Voice 16: but enough on that.

[0:04:04] Voice 16: So that I believe we would, yes, Chair Lockem.

[0:04:09] Voice 16: Um,

[0:04:11] Voice 4: yeah, just as a sort of process remark,

[0:04:16] Trustee Luckham: um, uh, a notice of motion, um, is certainly

[0:04:22] Trustee Luckham: something that can be done to all committee members, um, doesn't require having a discussion

[0:04:28] Trustee Luckham: and, and doesn't, uh, require facilitate the opportunity for, uh, discussion by email as

[0:04:37] Trustee Luckham: as a group, but certainly that would, in the future, that would be the best practice is to

[0:04:42] Trustee Luckham: provide that information in advance, particularly given that you've got two documents that you'd

[0:04:48] Trustee Luckham: like to discuss. I would like to personally have the opportunity to review those documents before

[0:04:54] Trustee Luckham: we end up having that conversation, rather than trying to assimilate whatever it is in a

[0:05:00] Trustee Luckham: conversation. Certainly, when we get into the debate regarding the budget recommendations,

[0:05:06] Trustee Luckham: there's any opportunity for anybody to bring anything in that in that conversation and of

[0:05:12] Trustee Luckham: course not knowing anything about what the proposals are I don't know whether or not there's

[0:05:17] Trustee Luckham: already a prescribed motion in there and and particularly whether or not there's been any

[0:05:21] Trustee Luckham: conversation with staff with respect to the logistics of how that would work but I would

[0:05:28] Trustee Luckham: if we're going to receive this on the agenda I would like to have a recess for the opportunity

[0:05:32] Trustee Luckham: you to review that material okay

[0:05:36] Voice 16: thank you chair luckham trustee bernardo hi

[0:05:40] Trustee Bernardo: um i'm not entirely

[0:05:42] Trustee Bernardo: sure about the process myself but if it requires if may reads uh proposal that we were you know her

[0:05:51] Trustee Bernardo: her proposal that we review her suggested revisions to the budget which she's conveniently

[0:05:57] Trustee Bernardo: documented for people if that requires a second uh i second that if that's a motion i second the

[0:06:04] Trustee Bernardo: motion the other point i'd want to make is um this little discussion we're having is emblematic

[0:06:15] Trustee Bernardo: of a problem that we have here with the way these meetings are constructed i appreciate

[0:06:20] Trustee Bernardo: and share the view that you want to look at the materials before the meeting if at all possible

[0:06:28] Trustee Bernardo: but as may read had mentioned uh she was trying to put this information or her proposal together

[0:06:35] Trustee Bernardo: other by working with other committee members, but she was hamstrung by the open meeting rule

[0:06:43] Trustee Bernardo: from being able to just do it in an efficient way. So let's be careful about doing a school

[0:06:52] Trustee Bernardo: marm lecture to committee members about how they went and how they ought to sort of do these things

[0:06:57] Trustee Bernardo: when the system itself gets in the way of actually trying to do the right thing here,

[0:07:04] Trustee Bernardo: which is to share the information and with respect to trustee luckham's suggestion that

[0:07:08] Trustee Bernardo: you know uh if you know assuming the uh item gets on the agenda and it really should there's

[0:07:16] Trustee Bernardo: nothing controversial really about the proposal here uh if you'll recall the last trust council

[0:07:22] Trustee Bernardo: meeting we spent a fair bit of time talking about the need for reductions and getting the budget to

[0:07:28] Trustee Bernardo: something close to being balanced uh from may read's remarks that's exactly what she's trying

[0:07:34] Trustee Bernardo: to do that in fact should be the heart of what we're doing here so today so whether or not uh

[0:07:41] Trustee Bernardo: you know we need to have a motion to change the agenda or whether it can be

[0:07:45] Trustee Bernardo: treated as already part of the agenda because that's supposed to be the work that we're doing

[0:07:49] Trustee Bernardo: today i don't think it makes a lot of difference but uh by all means i think trustee luckham

[0:07:54] Trustee Bernardo: suggestion that people have a chance to quickly look at the material that may read as prepared

[0:08:02] Trustee Bernardo: before we start talking about it makes perfect sense and we should do it after a brief recess

[0:08:07] Trustee Bernardo: thank you uh

[0:08:10] Voice 16: thank you for that trustee bernardo and i would tend to agree does anyone else

[0:08:14] Voice 16: have any any comment uh trustee patrick i

[0:08:21] Trustee Patrick: think what would help and because i've been through

[0:08:23] Trustee Patrick: these financial conversations many, many times now, I think is just maybe for Director Mobs,

[0:08:30] Trustee Patrick: just to give an overview of sort of what's, what's the structure of the conversation today and when

[0:08:35] Trustee Patrick: are, when is it appropriate to offer suggestions to, to make those reductions? I think just having

[0:08:43] Trustee Patrick: that lay of the land so that, you know, she, we know when to step up.

[0:08:51] Voice 16: Thank you, Trustee Patrick.

[0:08:52] Voice 16: Patrick, Director Bobbs?

[0:08:55] Voice 2: Certainly, I can respond to that.

[0:08:57] Voice 2: So we are hoping that at the meeting today,

[0:09:00] Voice 2: Financial Planning Committee will make some decisions

[0:09:02] Voice 2: and give direction to staff for any budget changes

[0:09:05] Voice 2: that they deem appropriate.

[0:09:08] Voice 2: The plan was to go through the changes

[0:09:10] Voice 2: that have happened to the budget

[0:09:12] Voice 2: since it was last reviewed by Financial Planning Committee

[0:09:14] Voice 2: and by Trust Council.

[0:09:16] Voice 2: At that stage, there would be an opportunity

[0:09:18] Voice 2: for Financial Planning Committee

[0:09:19] Voice 2: to discuss any aspect of the budget.

[0:09:22] Voice 2: I'm here to respond to questions.

[0:09:24] Voice 2: So once there's been a review of the changes that have happened, so everyone's current

[0:09:27] Voice 2: with the data that's included in the budget, that would be the time to discuss any changes.

[0:09:32] Voice 2: And I think the plan to add Trustee Boland's items would be after that discussion takes

[0:09:38] Voice 2: place.

[0:09:40] Voice 2: So I think that would be an appropriate time to discuss any changes.

[0:09:46] Voice 16: Okay.

[0:09:46] Voice 16: Okay, so it's, I mean, I think everyone would like to obviously have that opportunity and do that.

[0:09:55] Voice 16: So just in terms of the structure, can we take it by consent then to add Trustee Boland's item, and then we would put it obviously in eight, but where do you think, Julia, at the end of like 8.2.9?

[0:10:18] Voice 16: Or should it be right after all of the other items?

[0:10:23] Voice 16: What is your suggestion?

[0:10:25] Voice 2: Agenda item 8.1 is where I'll speak to the changes that have happened to the budget.

[0:10:29] Voice 2: All the items in agenda item 8.2, or all the reports there, are updated reports for what went to Trust Council.

[0:10:39] Voice 2: So at that time, I can respond to any questions at large on the budget detail in general.

[0:10:44] Voice 2: uh and then it's just over to financial planning committee to uh dive into debate okay

[0:10:54] Voice 4: so are you

[0:10:54] Voice 4: suggesting uh

[0:10:56] Voice 16: like 8.1.1 or or two i suppose it would be uh you

[0:11:03] Voice 16: want to cover 8.2.1 before we get

[0:11:06] Voice 16: it there uh

[0:11:08] Voice 2: yes i would suggest uh adding it at the end of eight points or 8.2.1 that would work

[0:11:14] Voice 2: okay

[0:11:16] Voice 16: so uh all right then um if the committee is content to add it at that spot and uh and i'm

[0:11:29] Voice 16: hearing uh that there is some at least a couple of people that would like an opportunity to have

[0:11:35] Voice 16: a look at it so maybe we can just plan to have a little break uh before we get uh perhaps after

[0:11:43] Voice 16: julius uh spoken and then before we get into that item does that seem appropriate to everyone

[0:11:49] Voice 16: excellent i'm seeing a couple thumbs up and some nods all right

[0:11:53] Voice 6: i'll send it to robert

[0:11:55] Voice 6: yeah sorry for interrupting okay i'll send it to robert now and i'll ask him to forward it to the

[0:12:02] Voice 6: fpc committee before that break perhaps would be the best thing yeah okay

[0:12:09] Voice 16: thank you for that

[0:12:10] Voice 13: so

[0:12:11] Voice 16: um is there anything else that anyone would like to uh do in terms of reordering the agenda

[0:12:24] Voice 16: i'm not seeing anything so can i take it by consent then that the agenda is approved as

[0:12:29] Voice 16: amended agreed i'm seeing

[0:12:36] Voice 16: some thumbs up there all right so that then would normally bring us

[0:12:44] Voice 16: to a public comment period I see there is one attendee on the line so maybe staff can help

[0:12:56] Voice 16: help us through to see if uh I guess we would ask that person to put their electronic hand up

[0:13:03] Voice 16: if they wanted to uh comment then so if you are the attendee uh can you advise us again Robert

[0:13:13] Voice 16: is it star nine on the phone I

[0:13:16] Voice 1: don't recall what but they have put up their hand is what

[0:13:20] Voice 1: but I wanted to let you know.

[0:13:21] Voice 1: So you can

[0:13:27] Voice 4: promote them to speak to us then?

[0:13:31] Voice 1: Yes, I've done so.

[0:13:33] Voice 16: Okay.

[0:13:34] Voice 16: So go ahead, caller.

[0:13:35] Voice 16: I see you're muted,

[0:13:36] Voice 16: but please go ahead and unmute

[0:13:37] Voice 16: and address

[0:13:40] Voice 15: the financial planning committee.

[0:13:42] Voice 15: It's Trustee Graham on Demmon Island

[0:13:44] Voice 15: struggling with antiquated technology

[0:13:47] Voice 15: to participate in the meeting

[0:13:49] Voice 15: until my power is restored.

[0:13:52] Voice 16: Ah, well, Trustee Graham,

[0:13:53] Voice 16: we're glad to hear that you're joining us.

[0:13:57] Voice 16: That's great.

[0:13:58] Voice 16: uh have you been able to hear so far yes

[0:14:02] Voice 15: uh well i heard the discussion regarding um chair bolton's

[0:14:08] Voice 15: material and i'm i'm okay with that and i'm okay with the agenda as it is so please carry on thank

[0:14:14] Voice 15: you okay

[0:14:15] Voice 16: and i would just say that since it's a little tricky uh in terms of chair to recognize

[0:14:21] Voice 16: you if you feel you need to speak and and you're not being recognized please uh speak up and and

[0:14:27] Voice 16: and we'll put you on the speaker's list.

[0:14:30] Voice 15: Thank you very much.

[0:14:31] Voice 15: I'll mute now.

[0:14:33] Voice 16: Thank you.

[0:14:34] Voice 16: Director Mobs.

[0:14:37] Voice 2: I was just going to mention,

[0:14:39] Voice 2: if it's possible to promote trustee Graham

[0:14:41] Voice 2: to panelists, Robert,

[0:14:43] Voice 2: then that would get him into the gallery

[0:14:45] Voice 2: so that interim chair, trustee Peterson

[0:14:48] Voice 2: would be able to see him during discussion.

[0:14:50] Voice 2: And then yeah, we could keep him unmuted

[0:14:52] Voice 2: so he can actually participate.

[0:14:55] Voice 1: Chair, if I may, in response to that,

[0:14:57] Voice 1: But as the caller is a caller, I'm unable to promote them to being a panelist.

[0:15:02] Voice 1: No worries, thanks, Robert.

[0:15:04] Voice 1: Okay,

[0:15:06] Voice 16: thank you for that.

[0:15:09] Voice 16: Trustee Evans.

[0:15:11] Voice 7: I was just going to ask, now that we have Trustee Graham on the line,

[0:15:16] Voice 7: is it possible to go back to the election just in case something happens and we lose him again?

[0:15:25] Voice 16: I'm fine with that.

[0:15:26] Voice 16: I'm just going to hear from Chair Luckom

[0:15:29] Voice 16: and then we'll, I think that most of the committee

[0:15:33] Voice 16: would be, we'll check in with them.

[0:15:34] Voice 16: Chair, Mr. Luckom.

[0:15:36] Voice 7: I was also just going to add in,

[0:15:38] Voice 7: we may have to come up with a creative way

[0:15:39] Voice 7: for him to be able to vote if he doesn't have internet.

[0:15:45] Voice 16: That's a good point.

[0:15:48] Trustee Luckham: Chair Luckom.

[0:15:49] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you, Trustee Evans for both of those points,

[0:15:53] Trustee Luckham: particularly the second one,

[0:15:54] Trustee Luckham: because indeed we have a late business item

[0:15:57] Trustee Luckham: with some attached material.

[0:15:58] Trustee Luckham: It's going to be on the agenda.

[0:16:00] Trustee Luckham: Those of us that are fortunate enough to have electricity and Internet will have the opportunity to review those materials.

[0:16:07] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Graham will not have that opportunity unless we have some other creative way of getting them to him.

[0:16:14] Trustee Luckham: And so just want to have the committee reflect on that.

[0:16:18] Trustee Luckham: And so perhaps there might be an opportunity

[0:16:20] Trustee Luckham: after we've reviewed it for the chair or somebody

[0:16:24] Trustee Luckham: to just paraphrase or review that for the benefit

[0:16:29] Trustee Luckham: of the trustee that is unable to see the material

[0:16:33] Trustee Luckham: as I presume that that would be important

[0:16:35] Trustee Luckham: in David's decision-making.

[0:16:37] Trustee Luckham: So there we go, let's move on with the elections.

[0:16:43] Voice 16: Okay, thank you for that.

[0:16:44] Voice 16: I see Robert Barlow.

[0:16:48] Voice 1: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to let you know that Trustee Graham has the ability to raise and lower his hand for voting and for indicating whether he wishes to speak.

[0:17:01] Voice 16: Okay, thank you. And yeah, and I see that I have to switch over to the attendees section to see that. But I will do my best to keep on that.

[0:17:13] Voice 16: So financial planning committee members, shall we go into the election of the chair and vice chair then?

[0:17:21] Voice 16: I'm seeing nods and thumbs up. That sounds great. So is it Claire that's going to administer the

[0:17:30] Voice 16: election for us today? Yes. Director Frater then.

[0:17:33] Voice 5: Okay. Thank you, Chair Peterson. I am here today

[0:17:38] Voice 5: because Director Marler is on vacation. So I've agreed to step in to administer the committee

[0:17:42] Voice 5: elections. So today we're going to proceed by holding an election for the chair first,

[0:17:47] Voice 5: followed by an election for vice chair. I'll be asking for nominations for the committee chair

[0:17:52] Voice 5: and then asking for a seconder. I'll then ask the candidate if they accept the nomination.

[0:17:58] Voice 5: If the answer is yes, then we'll add their name to the ballot. I will then call three times for

[0:18:03] Voice 5: any further nominations and then I'll close the nominations. If there are two or more candidates,

[0:18:09] Voice 5: we will proceed on with an election. If there is only one candidate, that person will be acclaimed

[0:18:13] Voice 5: into the rule. After nominations, each nominee will be given one or two minutes to speak about

[0:18:19] Voice 5: why they would like to be the chair or the vice chair. Once nomination closed, I'll ask financial

[0:18:24] Voice 5: planning committee by a simple majority vote to appoint a scrutineer who can be any member of the

[0:18:30] Voice 5: committee who is not a candidate in the election. Please note that there can be no proxy voting.

[0:18:36] Voice 5: You need to be a trustee in the meeting for nominating, seconding, standing for nomination

[0:18:42] Voice 5: and voting. If there is a tie vote with more than two candidates, we will reissue the vote

[0:18:48] Voice 5: via SurveyMonkey with just the tied names on the ballot. If there's a tie vote with only two

[0:18:54] Voice 5: candidates, we will proceed by lot by writing two names on pieces of paper, putting them in a box

[0:19:00] Voice 5: and pulling a name while the scrutineer watches. I will just advise you that as per Trust Council

[0:19:08] Voice 5: Council policy, only the three trustees appointed by the chair to the committee are eligible to be

[0:19:14] Voice 5: chair of FPC. As we move forward with administering an election, we will, I have Jillian Nickel here

[0:19:21] Voice 5: in my office with me, and she'll be administering the SurveyMonkey technical end of this.

[0:19:26] Voice 5: We'll be listing names alphabetically in SurveyMonkey by last name on a ballot, and when

[0:19:32] Voice 5: it's ready, we'll send an email to your Islands Trust email address with a one-time link. The

[0:19:37] Voice 5: The email typically takes six to 10 minutes

[0:19:39] Voice 5: to arrive in your inbox.

[0:19:40] Voice 5: So I encourage you to use that time

[0:19:42] Voice 5: to grab a coffee or so on.

[0:19:44] Voice 5: And while we wait for responses,

[0:19:45] Voice 5: we'll perhaps put up a slide

[0:19:47] Voice 5: to advise the public we're on a break.

[0:19:50] Voice 5: The ballot will only be sent

[0:19:51] Voice 5: to those trustees in attendance.

[0:19:54] Voice 5: When I've received all the votes,

[0:19:56] Voice 5: I will email the scrutineer

[0:19:57] Voice 5: and invite the scrutineer to join me

[0:19:59] Voice 5: in a separate Zoom meeting.

[0:20:00] Voice 5: We will then both drop out of this meeting

[0:20:02] Voice 5: and we'll review the results.

[0:20:04] Voice 5: What I'm going to recommend for Trustee Graham

[0:20:06] Voice 5: is that perhaps he could text me

[0:20:07] Voice 5: his um vote and then i could hold my phone up to the screen to show the scrutineer i wonder if that

[0:20:14] Voice 5: would be acceptable to the committee as an approach i'm seeing a couple up yeah okay not

[0:20:23] Voice 5: hearing the objection that's the way we'll proceed and um trustee graham i will email you my my cell

[0:20:28] Voice 5: phone number um so once we've reviewed the count of the votes and we're both satisfied we will both

[0:20:34] Voice 5: re-enter this meeting and i'll announce the results are there any questions about this process

[0:20:41] Voice 5: I

[0:20:42] Voice 7: see trustee Evans I just wanted to let you know that trustee Bowen said that her internet

[0:20:48] Voice 7: is just paused so she's going to switch to her phone as a hot spot so she'd appreciate a moment

[0:20:53] Voice 7: or two she drops out okay thank you all right thank you yeah

[0:20:57] Voice 6: it's okay for the moment but it

[0:20:58] Voice 6: did have a little bit of a hiccup so that if I do drop out that's what I'll do thank you very much

[0:21:03] Voice 6: okay

[0:21:04] Voice 5: so if you just give me a moment um trustee Graham do you have my cell phone number already

[0:21:10] Voice 15: um hi claire i may have it but my phone is about to die so i may just come in verbally and uh i

[0:21:19] Voice 15: will vote as best i can okay

[0:21:22] Voice 5: i've texted you just now so hopefully hopefully we can get through this

[0:21:25] Voice 5: speedily enough okay so let's proceed with haste then hearing no other questions um i'll move

[0:21:30] Voice 5: forward and i'll ask are there any nominations for chair of financial planning committee

[0:21:34] Voice 5: Okay. I see Trustee Evans.

[0:21:39] Voice 7: I would like to nominate Trustee Bernardo for Chair of the

[0:21:42] Voice 7: Financial Planning Committee. Thank you very much. Are there any seconders? I

[0:21:47] Voice 5: see Trustee Patrick.

[0:21:52] Voice 5: Trustee Bernardo, would you like to accept that nomination?

[0:21:56] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, I'd be pleased to accept the nomination. Thank you for that.

[0:22:00] Voice 5: Okay. Thank you. I'll now call a second time for nominations. Are there other nominations

[0:22:06] Voice 5: for the position of chair.

[0:22:11] Voice 5: I see Trustee Peterson.

[0:22:15] Voice 16: I nominate Trustee Graham.

[0:22:18] Voice 5: Thank you, do I have a seconder for that nomination?

[0:22:24] Voice 5: I see Trustee, or Chair Locke.

[0:22:28] Voice 5: Trustee Graham, would you like to accept that nomination?

[0:22:32] Voice 15: I appreciate the motion, but I do not accept,

[0:22:38] Voice 15: I would rather not be the chair, thank you.

[0:22:42] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:22:44] Voice 5: I'll call again for nominations.

[0:22:45] Voice 5: Is there another nomination for the position of chair?

[0:22:48] Voice 5: and for a final time is there a nomination for the position of chair of financial planning committee

[0:23:00] Voice 5: so hearing no further nominations i'm happy to announce that trustee bernardo is acclaimed as

[0:23:11] Voice 5: chair of financial planning committee would you like to take a minute to address the the group

[0:23:18] Trustee Bernardo: wow address the group okay uh thank you uh thank you for the nomination the second day and thank

[0:23:26] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you for I guess the general acquiescence

[0:23:31] Trustee Bernardo: that I won't screw it up too badly.

[0:23:33] Trustee Bernardo: So I appreciate all that and let's carry on.

[0:23:37] Trustee Bernardo: We've got a lot of work to do.

[0:23:39] Voice 13: So

[0:23:39] Trustee Bernardo: I'm not entirely sure by the way,

[0:23:41] Trustee Bernardo: what the next step is.

[0:23:43] Trustee Bernardo: Am I to assume that I am now chairing this meeting

[0:23:46] Trustee Bernardo: going forward?

[0:23:47] Voice 5: Yes, but if I might, I might first proceed

[0:23:50] Voice 5: with concluding the elections for vice chair

[0:23:52] Voice 5: and then I'll pass the meeting over to you

[0:23:54] Voice 5: to administer

[0:23:55] Trustee Bernardo: from that point on.

[0:23:56] Trustee Bernardo: happy to leave it in your hands thank you

[0:23:57] Voice 5: okay thank you so um so now congratulations to trustee

[0:24:02] Voice 5: bernardo and we'll move forward with um with nominations for vice chair so i'll just ask are

[0:24:08] Voice 5: there nominations for the position of vice chair of financial planning trustee peterson i nominate

[0:24:15] Voice 16: trustee boland thank

[0:24:18] Voice 5: you is there a seconder uh

[0:24:21] Trustee Bernardo: yes i second it okay

[0:24:23] Voice 5: trustee boland do you accept

[0:24:25] Voice 5: the nomination yes thank you thank you and i'll call again are there any further nominations

[0:24:38] Voice 5: trustee luckham i

[0:24:40] Trustee Luckham: would like to nominate uh david graham um for vice chair and completely respect

[0:24:47] Trustee Luckham: your declining on the role of the chair but i i know that you have significant financial

[0:24:53] Trustee Luckham: and previous executive committee experience and would do an excellent job

[0:24:56] Trustee Luckham: and so hopefully you might be inclined to put your name forward

[0:25:03] Voice 5: And I hear a seconder for the, um, for trustee Graham.

[0:25:08] Voice 5: I see trustee Peterson and trustee Graham.

[0:25:13] Voice 5: Would you like to accept that nomination?

[0:25:17] Voice 15: I appreciate the, uh, the, uh, the offer chair Luckham.

[0:25:20] Voice 15: Um, I, uh, it sounds like I'm just skirting my responsibilities right

[0:25:25] Voice 15: left and center, but I'm as an active member of FTC, I will be there.

[0:25:30] Voice 15: I'll be listening.

[0:25:31] Voice 15: I'll be contributing, but I do not want to be vice chair.

[0:25:33] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:25:34] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:25:36] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:25:37] Voice 5: So with that I'll call again for nominations.

[0:25:39] Voice 5: Is there another nomination for the position of Vice Chair?

[0:25:48] Voice 5: And I'll call for nominations a final time.

[0:25:51] Voice 5: Is there a further nomination for the position of Vice Chair of Financial Planning Committee?

[0:26:03] Voice 5: So not seeing any further nominations, I'm happy to congratulate Trustee Boland on the position of Vice Chair of Financial Planning Committee.

[0:26:14] Voice 6: Thanks Claire.

[0:26:15] Voice 6: Thanks for running it so well.

[0:26:17] Voice 6: and thank you all and I look forward to working with Joe and all of you on the next three and a

[0:26:27] Voice 6: three-quarter years. Thank you all.

[0:26:32] Voice 5: Wonderful, thank you. Well that concludes our elections

[0:26:34] Voice 5: process and with this I'll turn the meeting over to Chair Bernardo to chair us through the rest of

[0:26:39] Voice 5: the meeting. Thanks everyone.

[0:26:42] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you Claire and thank you everybody and thank you May Reid for

[0:26:47] Trustee Bernardo: or stepping up to do the vice chair job.

[0:26:52] Trustee Bernardo: And I'm going to ask everybody to bear with me

[0:26:55] Trustee Bernardo: as I get used to the process here.

[0:26:58] Trustee Bernardo: And it might take a few meetings for me to get comfortable

[0:27:01] Trustee Bernardo: with the technical aspects of running this type of meeting.

[0:27:08] Trustee Bernardo: So with supportive staff, what I propose to do

[0:27:11] Trustee Bernardo: is to simply wind our way through the agenda

[0:27:14] Trustee Bernardo: as efficiently as we can.

[0:27:16] Trustee Bernardo: And the next item I see is item 2.2 in the agenda, the appointment of the Audit Committee.

[0:27:21] Trustee Bernardo: That's a request for decision on the part of the committee as a whole.

[0:27:26] Trustee Bernardo: And I see that there's some names listed there already.

[0:27:33] Trustee Bernardo: And perhaps I could have the appropriate staff member speak to the context for this agenda item and the appointment to the Audit Committee.

[0:27:43] Trustee Bernardo: I'm

[0:27:46] Voice 2: happy to take that on, Chair Bernardo.

[0:27:49] Trustee Bernardo: Please go ahead.

[0:27:50] Voice 2: So very briefly, the Audit Committee is a subcommittee of Financial Planning Committee.

[0:27:55] Voice 2: It is comprised traditionally of all of the members of Financial Planning Committee,

[0:27:59] Voice 2: excluding Executive Committee and excluding members of FPC that are not trustees.

[0:28:04] Voice 2: So usually that relates to the Conservancy Board representative, if that representative to FPC

[0:28:10] Voice 2: see is a provincially appointed appointee and not a trustee. It is not a requirement that all of

[0:28:17] Voice 2: those members of financial planning committee serve on audit committee. Traditionally, that

[0:28:21] Voice 2: has been the case. The audit committee meets twice a year. They meet in February with senior staff

[0:28:26] Voice 2: and with the auditors to review the annual audit plan. And then they get together again in May or

[0:28:32] Voice 2: early June to review the findings of the annual audit. I think that's all that I need to speak to,

[0:28:37] Voice 2: but happy to answer questions all

[0:28:40] Trustee Bernardo: right uh as so if i understand that remark correctly um

[0:28:46] Trustee Bernardo: we have the usual nominees or the usual persons who are appointed to the um the audit committee

[0:28:53] Trustee Bernardo: those are itemized on the agenda list and i see there in square brackets it says uh to add the

[0:29:00] Trustee Bernardo: chair of the regional planning committee and i understand that is now uh trustee patrick is that

[0:29:04] Trustee Bernardo: correct correct

[0:29:05] Voice 2: so

[0:29:08] Trustee Bernardo: uh if i understand this correctly uh this is actually something of a

[0:29:11] Trustee Bernardo: pro forma uh vote that we simply appoint those people named there that would be myself and

[0:29:19] Trustee Bernardo: trustees boland evans graham scott and patrick to the audit committee um is it that straightforward

[0:29:26] Trustee Bernardo: that we simply uh have a show of hands and if there's any objection or anybody wants not doesn't

[0:29:32] Trustee Bernardo: want to serve on it that this is their opportunity to speak up now that's correct all

[0:29:38] Trustee Bernardo: right this is

[0:29:39] Trustee Bernardo: your chance to bail out i see trustee patrick has her hand up i'm

[0:29:43] Trustee Patrick: not bailing out i was just

[0:29:44] Trustee Patrick: prepared to make the motion to move things along if so be sure all

[0:29:49] Trustee Bernardo: right do we have a seconder for

[0:29:50] Trustee Bernardo: that motion well

[0:29:51] Trustee Patrick: i think i have to read it out to

[0:29:53] Trustee Bernardo: technically uh

[0:29:55] Trustee Patrick: i moved that the financial

[0:29:56] Trustee Patrick: planning committee appoint trustees bernardo boland evans

[0:30:00] Trustee Patrick: Graham Scott Patrick uh to the audit committee for the 2022 to 26 term second and

[0:30:10] Trustee Bernardo: uh trustee

[0:30:11] Trustee Bernardo: Lockham has seconded that um do we have any comments on this or uh does anybody have any

[0:30:19] Trustee Bernardo: observations or objections I see uh trustee Peterson has his hand up please proceed

[0:30:24] Trustee Bernardo: I

[0:30:25] Voice 16: just have a question for staff and that would be um about the chair of the governance

[0:30:32] Voice 16: committee and would that person who i assume will be elected tomorrow be part of the audit

[0:30:37] Voice 16: committee or no um

[0:30:40] Voice 2: i would expect so um we would i'd want to check in with director marler when

[0:30:46] Voice 2: he returns uh from vacation we do have some conflicts in policy um around the chair of the

[0:30:51] Voice 2: governance committee and their role on financial planning committee and audit committee um but i

[0:30:56] Voice 2: would expect that that would be the case um

[0:31:04] Trustee Luckham: i have a question i

[0:31:06] Trustee Bernardo: see i see trustee evans has her hand

[0:31:09] Trustee Bernardo: up let's proceed with her first and then we'll go to trustee luckham trustee evans i was just

[0:31:15] Voice 7: going to say if uh if we do move ahead with the governance committee chair joining the audit

[0:31:20] Voice 7: committee that can be added at uh at an appropriate time it can be an amendment to this

[0:31:27] Trustee Bernardo: uh i'm just wondering if staff could answer this question as to whether or not it's possible to

[0:31:31] Trustee Bernardo: simply uh you know just in the interest of efficiency and moving things along simply

[0:31:37] Trustee Bernardo: Simply include that, you know, that this body appoints whoever is going to be appointed, whoever is elected chair of the Governance Committee is appointed to the Audit Committee as well.

[0:31:49] Trustee Bernardo: But it's kind of by virtue of holding the office. Can we do that?

[0:31:55] Voice 12: Mr. Chair?

[0:31:58] Trustee Bernardo: CAO, please go ahead. Thank you.

[0:32:00] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah,

[0:32:00] Voice 12: so in the formation of the Governance Committee, Trust Council didn't really contemplate its participation on FPC, and that's not clearly spelled out in policy.

[0:32:12] Voice 12: There is somewhat of a reference where you could assume that the Chair of Governance Committee would be, or any standing committee would be a member of FPC, but we also have an explicit policy 231 that indicates that it's the membership that we're seeing on the screen right here.

[0:32:30] Voice 12: um so i think that that is and then i'm expecting that the audit committee um would be comprised of

[0:32:39] Voice 12: members of financial planning committee has and that has been the case so far hasn't julia

[0:32:45] Voice 2: yes right committee

[0:32:48] Voice 2: can only be made up of fpc members

[0:32:50] Voice 12: right so i think we would have to determine

[0:32:51] Voice 12: first um the attendance of the governance committee um chair as a full member at fpc and

[0:32:58] Voice 12: And then second, whether or not they would be in the audit committee.

[0:33:01] Voice 12: It makes sense to me.

[0:33:02] Voice 12: But right now we have policy that does not have a governance committee chair as a member of the FPC explicitly.

[0:33:10] Voice 12: And nor is it discussed in the terms of reference.

[0:33:13] Voice 12: But perhaps that's a conversation for tomorrow.

[0:33:15] Trustee Bernardo: Just to clarify something, I want to be sure I understand what you're saying here, Russ.

[0:33:23] Trustee Bernardo: Russ, what I'm hearing is we do not actually have a policy or a decision by Trust Council that indicates any intention by Trust Council that the chair of the governance committee should be on the audit committee.

[0:33:41] Trustee Bernardo: Is that correct?

[0:33:42] Trustee Bernardo: Or on financial planning committee at all.

[0:33:46] Trustee Bernardo: Right.

[0:33:46] Trustee Bernardo: Yes.

[0:33:47] Trustee Bernardo: So you're correct.

[0:33:48] Trustee Bernardo: So the trust committee has actually not put its mind to this question.

[0:33:54] Trustee Bernardo: Is that right?

[0:33:55] Voice 12: correct well

[0:33:56] Trustee Bernardo: on that basis uh it seems to me that uh there's no ambiguity here uh the governance

[0:34:07] Trustee Bernardo: committee is a new committee whatever its terms of reference are they are whatever they are so

[0:34:12] Trustee Bernardo: unless there's evidence that the trust committee has previously put its mind to uh ensuring the

[0:34:18] Trustee Bernardo: chair of the governance committee is part of the audit committee without any clear indications

[0:34:23] Trustee Bernardo: that's the case, I think we have to proceed on the basis

[0:34:26] Trustee Bernardo: that it's not the case.

[0:34:28] Trustee Bernardo: And we could probably proceed on the basis

[0:34:31] Trustee Bernardo: of appointing the people who are named here,

[0:34:34] Trustee Bernardo: including Trustee Patrick.

[0:34:36] Trustee Bernardo: At least that's what it looks like to me.

[0:34:38] Trustee Bernardo: But of course, that's open to discussion.

[0:34:40] Trustee Bernardo: And I see Trustee Peterson has his hand up.

[0:34:43] Trustee Bernardo: Please proceed, Trustee Peterson.

[0:34:47] Voice 16: Thank you, Chair.

[0:34:48] Voice 16: I think what I'm hearing is that there is

[0:34:52] Voice 16: uh a sort of a policy gap uh that may need to be addressed um presumably by trust council and uh

[0:35:04] Voice 16: i'm just wondering uh if staff could advise us how uh this committee might help support that policy

[0:35:13] Voice 16: gap or or potential contradiction to be addressed uh by i assume by trust council all right let's

[0:35:23] Trustee Bernardo: Let's hold that question in mind.

[0:35:25] Trustee Bernardo: I see Director Mobs is going to,

[0:35:30] Trustee Bernardo: has some remarks to make after Trustee Luckham.

[0:35:32] Trustee Bernardo: Let's hear from Trustee Luckham first,

[0:35:33] Trustee Bernardo: and then let's not forget Trustee Peterson's question

[0:35:35] Trustee Bernardo: when we get to Director Mobs.

[0:35:38] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Luckham.

[0:35:40] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you.

[0:35:42] Trustee Luckham: I have two remarks.

[0:35:44] Trustee Luckham: One, I'm inclined to support your proposition there,

[0:35:49] Trustee Luckham: Chair Bernardo, but I'm also wanting to support

[0:35:54] Trustee Luckham: what Trustee Peterson has brought to the table

[0:35:57] Trustee Luckham: because there is ambiguity here that as a result

[0:36:01] Trustee Luckham: of having one council created a governance committee

[0:36:05] Trustee Luckham: and two, the province having created

[0:36:09] Trustee Luckham: an accessibility committee that the requirements

[0:36:14] Trustee Luckham: associated with each of those committees is unclear.

[0:36:17] Trustee Luckham: And so I think that it would be appropriate

[0:36:19] Trustee Luckham: for the financial planning committee

[0:36:20] Trustee Luckham: to make a recommendation perhaps

[0:36:22] Trustee Luckham: that one proceed as you have suggested, Chair Bernardo,

[0:36:27] Trustee Luckham: but that this committee also perhaps make a recommendation

[0:36:30] Trustee Luckham: that staff through legislative services

[0:36:33] Trustee Luckham: investigate some of the policy associated

[0:36:37] Trustee Luckham: with committee appointments to FPC and audit committee.

[0:36:43] Trustee Luckham: But I would suggest we proceed with what we have today.

[0:36:47] Trustee Luckham: Director Moves.

[0:36:50] Voice 2: Thank you, Chair.

[0:36:51] Voice 2: My comments actually relate to the question

[0:36:54] Voice 2: that trustee peterson raised uh so what we're seeing is that the financial planning committee

[0:36:57] Voice 2: terms of reference indicate um that membership of fpc would include the chairs of all standing

[0:37:04] Voice 2: committees um and so that's where the governance committee uh could be considered as a new standing

[0:37:10] Voice 2: committee to have membership on financial planning committee however we do have trust council

[0:37:14] Voice 2: committee system policy 2.3.1 which specifically names trust programs committee and regional

[0:37:20] Voice 2: planning committee but does not name the governance committee and so we have a conflict

[0:37:24] Voice 2: and in the absence of director marler who would advise we're still sort of in limbo around that

[0:37:30] Voice 2: i would suggest if we wish to move forward today and not have to make any further appointments at

[0:37:35] Voice 2: a later date we could amend the motion to say that financial planning committee appoint all

[0:37:40] Voice 2: members of fpc excluding executive committee members to the audit committee

[0:37:46] Trustee Bernardo: let me ask you

[0:37:50] Trustee Bernardo: this question those two um different policies that you referred to which one came first

[0:37:58] Voice 2: i don't know the answer to that question uh the financial planning committee terms of reference

[0:38:04] Voice 2: um i believe would have been created at the time of fpc the council committee system was recently

[0:38:09] Voice 2: amended but i don't know when it was initiated because

[0:38:13] Trustee Bernardo: if the policy that specifically refers

[0:38:16] Trustee Bernardo: refers to the council committee's system

[0:38:18] Trustee Bernardo: and refers to the audit committee,

[0:38:21] Trustee Bernardo: the identity of who should be on the FPC specifically

[0:38:27] Trustee Bernardo: or on the audit committee specifically.

[0:38:31] Trustee Bernardo: And it follows after the more generic general statement

[0:38:37] Trustee Bernardo: than the specific intention by the trust council there

[0:38:43] Trustee Bernardo: would trump the more general language.

[0:38:45] Trustee Bernardo: So I think that's actually fairly important

[0:38:46] Trustee Bernardo: if we can figure out the sequence because if it turns out we have a specific intention that

[0:38:52] Trustee Bernardo: actually specifically identifies who the members of the audit committee ought to be then we can go

[0:38:58] Trustee Bernardo: with that I see the CAO has a remark yes

[0:39:02] Voice 12: sir so policy 233 which is the FPC terms of reference

[0:39:05] Voice 12: was amended last in 2008 the more specific council committee system policy was amended last September

[0:39:13] Voice 12: and that's the one that's explicit on the membership of financial planning committee

[0:39:19] Voice 12: notwithstanding in the future governance committee may wish to have a presence on fpc but the most

[0:39:24] Voice 12: recent direction we've had is from policy 231 which is the council committee system and it's

[0:39:29] Voice 12: just as you have proposed well

[0:39:32] Trustee Bernardo: that sounds like then we are in fact governed by that intention

[0:39:34] Trustee Bernardo: of the trust council and the remarks that trustee peterson and trustee luckham made still have

[0:39:41] Trustee Bernardo: have uh have some weight to them uh this uh at a minimum is an issue that seems like it ought to

[0:39:49] Trustee Bernardo: be brought back to the trust council for deliberation so that the trust council as a

[0:39:53] Trustee Bernardo: whole can decide whether or not it wants to revise its intention from september last year to include

[0:40:00] Trustee Bernardo: governance committee or not but that's a decision for the trust council as a whole to make not for

[0:40:04] Trustee Bernardo: us the time being i believe from everything i'm hearing we're governed by by this most recent

[0:40:10] Trustee Bernardo: policy statement in September. And on that basis, I think the motion that's before

[0:40:19] Trustee Bernardo: this committee can proceed unamended. Now, I see Trustee Evans had her hand up briefly before.

[0:40:26] Trustee Bernardo: Would you like to speak?

[0:40:29] Voice 7: I don't know if it's worth bringing up or not. I was getting confused

[0:40:34] Voice 7: because I thought you were asking which policy was created first, whereas the CAO just said

[0:40:39] Voice 7: which one was amended last that's

[0:40:46] Trustee Bernardo: a fair point i appreciate the distinction but uh if the more

[0:40:53] Trustee Bernardo: explicit policy was amended last and that was last september that's evidence that the trust council

[0:41:01] Trustee Bernardo: put its mind to the issue at the time and if it had wanted to amend it to include the governance

[0:41:07] Trustee Bernardo: committee it could have at that time but apparently it chose not to so that's uh i appreciate your

[0:41:14] Trustee Bernardo: distinction but i think we're still there that the best evidence we have is that the trust council

[0:41:22] Trustee Bernardo: didn't have an intention to have the governance committee chair on this committee so

[0:41:28] Trustee Bernardo: at least that's the way it looks like to me unless so i unless i hear any objections i intend to

[0:41:35] Trustee Bernardo: proceed with i guess a vote on this motion but please if anybody objects that we proceed

[0:41:42] Trustee Bernardo: proceed on that basis, now's the time to speak up.

[0:41:45] Trustee Bernardo: All right, hearing no objections, Trustee Peterson.

[0:41:55] Voice 16: Yeah, I'm just going to advise the committee.

[0:41:59] Voice 16: I'm going to put, send a motion to the recorder

[0:42:04] Voice 16: that maybe we can look at in a little bit.

[0:42:08] Voice 16: That's basically just asking for staff to look at the policy

[0:42:11] Voice 16: and report back if there seems to be a need

[0:42:14] Voice 16: for some policy amendments by trust counsel.

[0:42:17] Voice 16: So I'm just advising that I'm going to send that off

[0:42:19] Voice 16: to staff and perhaps I'll just stick my hand up

[0:42:28] Voice 16: when it seems appropriate and we can have a look at that.

[0:42:32] Trustee Bernardo: Could you clarify, I mean, this motion

[0:42:35] Trustee Bernardo: that you're proposing, is it supplementary to this?

[0:42:40] Trustee Bernardo: Or are you objecting to our proceeding on the basis

[0:42:46] Trustee Bernardo: of the motion that's before us now

[0:42:48] Trustee Bernardo: to appoint the Audit Committee as stated on the agenda.

[0:42:53] Voice 16: Thank you for that.

[0:42:54] Voice 16: The motion would read that Financial Planning Committee

[0:42:58] Voice 16: request staff to investigate policy

[0:43:00] Voice 16: regarding Financial Planning Committee membership

[0:43:02] Voice 16: with respect to Council Standing Committee chairs

[0:43:06] Voice 16: and report back to Trust Council

[0:43:10] Voice 16: with recommendations for any policy amendments.

[0:43:13] Trustee Bernardo: Oh, all right.

[0:43:14] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, then that would be a motion

[0:43:17] Trustee Bernardo: that is to fulfill the further inquiry

[0:43:21] Trustee Bernardo: that you and Trustee Luckin were talking about before

[0:43:23] Trustee Bernardo: and I think seems to have,

[0:43:25] Trustee Bernardo: at least appears to have some general agreement there.

[0:43:28] Trustee Bernardo: It's not interfering with our proceeding here.

[0:43:30] Trustee Bernardo: So could I have a motion that we proceed

[0:43:33] Trustee Bernardo: with the appointment and a seconder for it?

[0:43:37] Trustee Luckham: I think that motion was made, sir.

[0:43:40] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, thank you for that.

[0:43:43] Trustee Bernardo: And if the motion is before us then do we,

[0:43:47] Trustee Bernardo: I guess the next step is to have a show of hands

[0:43:50] Trustee Bernardo: to see whether or not the appointment is approved.

[0:44:04] Trustee Bernardo: And as far as I can tell, I see no objections.

[0:44:10] Trustee Bernardo: So unless somebody catches a mistake I'm making here,

[0:44:12] Trustee Bernardo: I think the motion is approved

[0:44:14] Trustee Bernardo: and we can move on to the next agenda item.

[0:44:16] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[0:44:20] Trustee Bernardo: We've reviewed the agenda and I assume we've approved it.

[0:44:27] Trustee Bernardo: So are we back now?

[0:44:29] Trustee Bernardo: Again, I have to ask staff for some help here.

[0:44:31] Trustee Bernardo: are we back to the public comment period and do we have somebody available to make a public comment

[0:44:37] Trustee Bernardo: chair

[0:44:40] Voice 1: there's no member of the public in attendance other than uh uh trustee graham of course

[0:44:47] Trustee Bernardo: okay all right then we can uh skip that and there are no delegations according to our agenda and now

[0:44:53] Trustee Bernardo: we turn now to item six in the agenda which is correspondence uh which was apparently deferred

[0:45:01] Trustee Bernardo: from November 25th from the last meeting I see trustee Peterson has his hand up please

[0:45:07] Trustee Bernardo: go ahead trustee Peterson I

[0:45:13] Voice 16: was just going to advise that I have set the motion that I mentioned

[0:45:18] Voice 16: off to staff and I just wonder if it's a if you chair if you would entertain that motion at this

[0:45:27] Voice 16: moment because I was sort of looking at the agenda and not really seeing a wonderful spot to put it

[0:45:33] Voice 16: in later i'm

[0:45:35] Trustee Bernardo: fine with that uh in terms of just dealing with that motion now uh in the sense that

[0:45:40] Trustee Bernardo: you know we we haven't really started any other agenda items so uh if staff could put that that

[0:45:45] Trustee Bernardo: motion up for people to look at and then we can um engage the issue uh

[0:45:53] Trustee Luckham: perhaps chair um friendly

[0:45:55] Trustee Luckham: advice um that as we've raised the point of 6.1 whether you might just uh receive that letter for

[0:46:03] Trustee Luckham: for information if there's no comments

[0:46:05] Trustee Luckham: and then indeed proceed to then what is a new item.

[0:46:09] Trustee Bernardo: All right, fair enough.

[0:46:11] Trustee Bernardo: Do we have any comments on the letter

[0:46:14] Trustee Bernardo: from the preceding chair?

[0:46:17] Trustee Bernardo: Does

[0:46:17] Voice 4: anybody want to discuss anything that's in that letter?

[0:46:31] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I'm not hearing any great enthusiasm to

[0:46:34] Trustee Bernardo: or any enthusiasm whatsoever in fact, to explore that.

[0:46:37] Trustee Bernardo: But I think we should thank the previous chair

[0:46:39] Trustee Bernardo: for his efforts and for his conscientiousness

[0:46:42] Trustee Bernardo: in providing us with this letter of guidance.

[0:46:44] Trustee Bernardo: And although we haven't discussed it today, the prudent thing is if anybody who hasn't read the letter on the committee,

[0:46:55] Trustee Bernardo: they probably ought to read the letter and take that advice and weigh it and apply it as required.

[0:47:05] Trustee Bernardo: Moving on, having taken care of that agenda item and following Trustee Leckham's helpful advice,

[0:47:13] Trustee Bernardo: We now have the motion,

[0:47:16] Voice 4: I believe,

[0:47:21] Voice 4: that was forwarded to

[0:47:22] Voice 4: staff by Trustee Peterson.

[0:47:26] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Peterson, is this what we have on the screen now?

[0:47:30] Trustee Bernardo: Is this articulating what you wanted to say?

[0:47:35] Voice 16: Yes, I'll just read the motion.

[0:47:37] Voice 16: I move that financial planning committee request staff

[0:47:40] Voice 16: to investigate policy regarding

[0:47:42] Voice 16: financial planning committee membership

[0:47:44] Voice 16: with respect to council standing committee chairs

[0:47:46] Voice 16: and report back to trust council

[0:47:48] Voice 16: with recommendations for policy amendments.

[0:47:51] Trustee Bernardo: May I have a seconder for that motion, please?

[0:47:55] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Luckham.

[0:47:57] Trustee Luckham: Well, actually I had a comment for question

[0:48:00] Trustee Luckham: before it was seconded, if that's all right, Chair.

[0:48:05] Trustee Luckham: And so assuming that's all right,

[0:48:07] Trustee Luckham: perhaps a question for staff

[0:48:10] Trustee Luckham: as I don't have the policy in front of me.

[0:48:12] Trustee Luckham: I think it's actually council standing committee appointments

[0:48:17] Trustee Luckham: because there has been in the past situations

[0:48:20] Trustee Luckham: durations where the chair has not been the representative of FPC but a member of the

[0:48:25] Trustee Luckham: committee was appointed and I think it's an appointment that the standing committees make

[0:48:31] Trustee Luckham: and so just would like to seek that clarity whether it's actually a chair or whether that

[0:48:36] Trustee Luckham: word should be appointment appointee uh

[0:48:41] Trustee Bernardo: trustee peterson uh it's your motion do you have a comment

[0:48:44] Trustee Bernardo: with respect to that uh sounds like a friendly suggestion for an amendment there yeah I would

[0:48:50] Voice 16: consider changing chair to appointment as a friendly uh amendment and uh a little bit more

[0:48:57] Voice 16: uh appropriate and uh precise in this case thank you uh trustee luckham chair luckham

[0:49:04] Trustee Bernardo: all right the motion is amended uh by the mover and do we have a seconder for this amended motion

[0:49:15] Trustee Bernardo: trustee evans you're muted i

[0:49:21] Voice 7: second the motion thank

[0:49:23] Trustee Bernardo: you uh the motion is now before

[0:49:26] Trustee Bernardo: the committee uh for discussion do we have any further comments or discussion or observations

[0:49:32] Trustee Bernardo: anybody wants to make with respect to this motion all right seeing none uh can we have a show of

[0:49:43] Trustee Bernardo: hands please as to whether or not this motion is approved or not as far as i can tell everybody's

[0:49:52] Trustee Bernardo: on board uh the motion is carried moving on now to the next item please we're just waiting here

[0:50:10] Trustee Bernardo: for the agenda to come back up thank you and as i understand that the next item on the agenda is to

[0:50:24] Trustee Bernardo: uh approve or if not approve discuss and amend the minutes to the last financial planning committee

[0:50:34] Trustee Bernardo: committee meeting. Do we have any, may I have a motion from the floor with respect to approving

[0:50:45] Trustee Bernardo: the minutes? I see Mr. Barlow has a comment.

[0:50:52] Voice 1: Chair, thank you very much. It's best practice

[0:50:56] Voice 1: or normal practices for the administrative aspects of an agenda just to be carried or not

[0:51:03] Voice 1: by general consent. So adjournment and changing and accepting of minutes is just a normal

[0:51:11] Voice 1: general consent. You don't need to make a formal voting if, but that's your preference.

[0:51:20] Trustee Bernardo: No, I'm happy to do it. Anything that makes it more efficient and less formal, I'm all for it.

[0:51:26] Trustee Bernardo: All right. Although I'd like a little advice here on how a person in my position is supposed

[0:51:33] Trustee Bernardo: to determine what can properly go by general consent or not is it simply just a matter of

[0:51:38] Trustee Bernardo: what's been done before i

[0:51:39] Voice 1: can provide that information uh chair bernardo and that is just

[0:51:44] Voice 1: simply the chair asks uh if there's any objections to um accepting a general consent if there is a

[0:51:55] Voice 1: general consent they simply ask that and if anyone has a wish to discuss it then it needs to go to a

[0:52:02] Voice 1: formal vote okay

[0:52:04] Trustee Bernardo: i get it thank you uh and uh what he said do we on this with respect to this

[0:52:11] Trustee Bernardo: agenda item uh do we have general consent that it should uh be approved and the minutes are accepted

[0:52:16] Trustee Bernardo: uh as written i i guess the way to do it is does anybody register an objection not hearing any

[0:52:29] Trustee Bernardo: all right move on to the next item i see uh resolutions about meeting there seems to be

[0:52:40] Trustee Bernardo: be none there they need to be a follow followed up uh there and uh follow there's a follow-up

[0:52:46] Trustee Bernardo: action list item 7.3 and uh this looks like something the staff needs to walk us through

[0:52:55] Trustee Bernardo: am i uh so i'm going to throw that over who's the who's who's going to take the lead from the staff

[0:53:00] Trustee Bernardo: side for this director

[0:53:02] Trustee Luckham: mobs well

[0:53:04] Trustee Bernardo: maybe we should let her speak to that point as to whether she's

[0:53:07] Trustee Bernardo: going to do it or not uh

[0:53:09] Voice 2: traditionally for the follow-up action list uh we let staff speak to

[0:53:13] Voice 2: their own particular items so you'll notice the first item there is assigned to CAO Hudson Pillar

[0:53:18] Voice 2: and Director Cermak uh so I would look to them to speak to that item and then we just move through

[0:53:22] Voice 2: the list that way thank

[0:53:25] Trustee Bernardo: you for that uh CAO Hudson Pillar perhaps you can speak to the first

[0:53:30] Trustee Bernardo: follow-up item here um

[0:53:32] Voice 12: this is now becoming a long-standing item I initially reached out to

[0:53:36] Voice 12: there was two options provided to the committee to address this.

[0:53:40] Voice 12: One, for me to go out and leverage my knowledge of other organizations

[0:53:45] Voice 12: and talk with CAOs about how we can get some cost recovery

[0:53:51] Voice 12: or to look at a legislative change that would allow us to do that.

[0:53:55] Voice 12: We don't currently have that ability.

[0:53:58] Voice 12: I did reach out to a number of CAOs.

[0:54:00] Voice 12: Half of those have either retired or been released from duty.

[0:54:03] Voice 12: So I will be starting that process again.

[0:54:06] Voice 12: I don't have anything other than that to update unless you wanted to refresh consideration of the whole topic, at which point I would re-report to you at your next meeting.

[0:54:16] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I certainly don't have anything to contribute to that.

[0:54:18] Trustee Bernardo: Do any of the other members of the committee have any comments or observations or suggestions that they'd like to raise at this juncture with respect to this item?

[0:54:28] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Evans?

[0:54:30] Voice 7: It's not necessarily to this item in particular, but to the follow-up action list as a whole when it comes to the Financial Planning Committee.

[0:54:39] Voice 7: when I was in corporate setting when we had something like this we have the activity the

[0:54:46] Voice 7: responsibility the dates and the status we would also have either the the number of hours required

[0:54:53] Voice 7: to complete the task and or a dollar amount attached to this so that we could see whether

[0:54:59] Voice 7: we were on target above target or below target so I'm wondering if that is something that that

[0:55:04] Voice 7: that could be implemented

[0:55:06] Voice 7: at the financial committee level

[0:55:09] Voice 7: when it comes to follow-up action lists

[0:55:11] Voice 7: so that we can have a good overview

[0:55:14] Voice 7: as to which activities are running on budget

[0:55:17] Voice 7: and which are running over budget.

[0:55:22] Trustee Bernardo: Well, Trustee Evans,

[0:55:25] Trustee Bernardo: what you're suggesting is actually very professional,

[0:55:28] Trustee Bernardo: but I'm not sure it's an item

[0:55:32] Trustee Bernardo: that we can address directly at this point.

[0:55:36] Trustee Bernardo: What I'm hearing is that that's a proposal for a procedural change.

[0:55:45] Trustee Bernardo: And I think many of the trustees are going to have similar proposals or related proposals, for example, with respect to business cases.

[0:55:56] Trustee Bernardo: And we may well need to consider changes in procedures.

[0:56:02] Trustee Bernardo: And I'm not quite sure when we would do that, but relatively soon, I think.

[0:56:10] Trustee Bernardo: But that's just my commentary on that.

[0:56:11] Trustee Bernardo: I see Trustee Elliott has something to say here.

[0:56:14] Trustee Bernardo: Please proceed.

[0:56:16] Trustee Elliott: It's not to do with Trustee Evans.

[0:56:18] Trustee Elliott: It's in reference to the building permit review cost recovery.

[0:56:22] Trustee Elliott: I just wanted to ask a question.

[0:56:25] Trustee Bernardo: Please go ahead.

[0:56:26] Trustee Bernardo: um

[0:56:28] Trustee Elliott: i just wanted to confirm if what i learned is correct that the process um for reviewing building

[0:56:36] Trustee Elliott: permits our staff is now or our planning staff has dedicated one full-time person to reviewing

[0:56:45] Trustee Elliott: permits so that they comply with ocps before sending them on to the back to the regional

[0:56:51] Trustee Elliott: district, um, for the rest of the, because they permit buildings. And so I just wanted clarity

[0:56:58] Trustee Elliott: that, um, as I'm learning about the mechanisms of what we're funding and how, is that true that

[0:57:04] Trustee Elliott: we're, we're actually paying the, the planning technician role is to confirm that building

[0:57:13] Trustee Elliott: permits conform with our OCPs, but that's not funded by any, is that what this is about?

[0:57:20] Trustee Elliott: uh

[0:57:22] Voice 12: mr chair uh

[0:57:24] Trustee Bernardo: cao please answer the question go ahead yeah

[0:57:27] Voice 12: that's close um but it's um i wouldn't

[0:57:31] Voice 12: say it's an alarming scenario um the technician looks at the building permit scheme as well as

[0:57:37] Voice 12: any other siting elements that are associated with the land use planning function so that job

[0:57:41] Voice 12: does more than the building permit referral process um when i approached the other caos

[0:57:46] Voice 12: they said well that's why you have planning staff is to um you know so their perspective is they

[0:57:52] Voice 12: quite often fold that into their processes they're often sitting beside the building permit official

[0:57:57] Voice 12: they turn they pass it over they pass it back there isn't a discrete charge um that exists for

[0:58:04] Voice 12: a planning referral of a building permit review if i may nevertheless um some could say that's

[0:58:12] Voice 12: unfunded because we do have to go from us to another of the seven different regional districts

[0:58:18] Voice 12: and say from a building permit permitting perspective are we okay with this application

[0:58:21] Voice 12: that process does occur um and um and we do some of that work and we don't have a cost recovery

[0:58:29] Voice 12: mechanism for that explicit piece of work and

[0:58:34] Trustee Bernardo: is that the purpose of this actually this this this

[0:58:38] Trustee Bernardo: item which is to explore options for getting cost recovery for that function yes

[0:58:44] Voice 12: all right

[0:58:47] Voice 12: either either to undertake it ourselves by charging a separate fee or by getting the

[0:58:52] Voice 12: regional districts to charge it for us and then remitting it back to us thank

[0:58:58] Trustee Elliott: you that's what i

[0:58:59] Trustee Elliott: wanted to understand appreciate that

[0:59:01] Trustee Bernardo: and uh cao but you've also mentioned that in other areas where

[0:59:06] Trustee Bernardo: where the other local governments were building permits and the planning

[0:59:12] Trustee Bernardo: department, they're all part under the same body.

[0:59:14] Trustee Bernardo: They're all part of the same local government that there's that process in

[0:59:20] Trustee Bernardo: that context would be viewed as simply part of the planning process.

[0:59:26] Trustee Bernardo: Is that right?

[0:59:26] Voice 12: Correct, sir.

[0:59:28] Voice 12: So what we're doing is we're parsing out something that most other

[0:59:31] Voice 12: jurisdictions that utilize this power don't.

[0:59:36] Voice 12: I'm sure some may, but for the most part,

[0:59:38] Voice 12: caos were oh that's interesting um that's you know that's not the process that we undertake

[0:59:43] Voice 12: um i did do and i forget the exact numbers i did do some essential financial analysis around it

[0:59:51] Voice 12: uh and i could return with some of those numbers to see

[0:59:54] Voice 12: of what import you think this project is and

[0:59:57] Trustee Bernardo: how much time

[0:59:58] Voice 12: you want me to dedicate

[1:00:00] Voice 12: to it well

[1:00:00] Trustee Bernardo: we've got a lot of things to do so let's not beat this into the ground quite yet but

[1:00:05] Trustee Bernardo: um um very briefly for the benefit of the newcomers uh to trust council into this committee

[1:00:15] Trustee Bernardo: uh if other local governments simply take it for granted that this type of work is part of

[1:00:22] Trustee Bernardo: the planner job uh and very briefly please uh how does it come to pass that um we're looking

[1:00:28] Trustee Bernardo: to do something other bodies aren't which is to sort of uh get cost recovery for this specific

[1:00:34] Trustee Bernardo: item as opposed to simply just accepting as part of the job how did this

[1:00:39] Voice 12: come about uh with respect

[1:00:41] Voice 12: sir it would be come out of the minutes it was political direction from the previous fpc well i

[1:00:47] Trustee Bernardo: understand that but i'm just wondering if you're in a position to very briefly uh summarize the

[1:00:53] Trustee Bernardo: reasoning behind it if you're not that's fine you can just say so we can move on i

[1:00:58] Voice 12: just think that

[1:00:58] Voice 12: That was an opportunity for trustees said, is this a wean so we could get some further funding for the planning function?

[1:01:05] Voice 12: OK, that was that was the rationale. Thank you,

[1:01:07] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Bowman.

[1:01:11] Voice 6: There are two points ahead of me, but I'd like to just quickly comment on both.

[1:01:15] Voice 6: First of all, I'd be happy to, as in my new role as vice chair, create a kind of a running list of ideas that people might propose that don't fit into the exact agenda at the moment.

[1:01:30] Voice 6: So, for instance, what Christina proposed, maybe she and I could collectively own that list.

[1:01:36] Voice 6: And then the second thing is with respect to the cost recovery, it might be helpful if regional planning to review the material that exists already around that,

[1:01:46] Voice 6: what analysis was done and consider whether it's worth bringing it back to the table to put on the action list.

[1:01:55] Voice 6: and I'd ask that maybe Laura could respond to that.

[1:01:59] Voice 6: Thank you.

[1:02:02] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Luckham.

[1:02:05] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you.

[1:02:07] Trustee Luckham: I had a remark about what Trustee Evans raised,

[1:02:11] Trustee Luckham: but I just want to take the opportunity

[1:02:14] Trustee Luckham: to maybe articulate that the why are we doing this question,

[1:02:21] Trustee Luckham: Chair Bernardo, was as much as,

[1:02:25] Trustee Luckham: well, we're the island's trust.

[1:02:26] Trustee Luckham: And we, in our land use planning authority,

[1:02:30] Trustee Luckham: we do not manage building permits.

[1:02:33] Trustee Luckham: We manage and recover funding for applications

[1:02:37] Trustee Luckham: and development, various permits and that sort of thing.

[1:02:41] Trustee Luckham: And so indeed in the bill, in the regional districts model,

[1:02:46] Trustee Luckham: when a building permit is issued that fee,

[1:02:49] Trustee Luckham: I'm prepared to believe, covers the building

[1:02:52] Trustee Luckham: inspection process and the permit inspection process

[1:02:56] Trustee Luckham: and the land use zoning and the OCP requirements, all that is covered in that fee.

[1:03:03] Trustee Luckham: The Islanders Trust has no fee associated with that responsibility to ensure that a building permit complies with the OCP.

[1:03:12] Trustee Luckham: And so, indeed, it's a cost recovery thing.

[1:03:16] Trustee Luckham: We put a lot of attention into trying to recover our application fees last term.

[1:03:21] Trustee Luckham: And the question was raised as why it is that we can't recover some of the costs associated with building permits, because some building permits are simple.

[1:03:31] Trustee Luckham: Others are much more complex and does take quite a bit of time.

[1:03:34] Trustee Luckham: And it's just trying to be more fiscally responsible is the answer to that question, I think.

[1:03:40] Trustee Luckham: And we'll see how that unfolds.

[1:03:42] Trustee Luckham: I wanted to speak about the follow-up action list with respect to Trustee Evans' thought there about expanding that, and I would appreciate staff's input on this, because I don't think that the intent of the follow-up action list has got an associated project management budget scheduling-type component in it.

[1:04:10] Trustee Luckham: And I'll use by example the motion that was just passed about asking staff to consider amendments to the policy regarding chair, regarding appointments to FPC, is a motion that will end up on the follow-up action list that there is no budget, there is no business case, other than it's a political decision, and it will go forward and staff will spend the time and report to us on the progress of that initiative.

[1:04:39] Trustee Luckham: initiative and so um and it's interesting because what's come to right raised here in the

[1:04:47] Trustee Luckham: conversation with trustee boland added to it is the financial planning committee actually doesn't

[1:04:53] Trustee Luckham: really have a projects list if i'm not unless i'm mistaken whereas the other committees do

[1:04:58] Trustee Luckham: where indeed um uh projects are undertaken by the committees in order to do work and there's

[1:05:05] Trustee Luckham: There's often budget and business cases associated with it as direction from council.

[1:05:10] Trustee Luckham: And so, indeed, that does go forward.

[1:05:12] Trustee Luckham: But it's slightly different here with the financial planning committee.

[1:05:16] Trustee Luckham: And the intent is just to keep track of decisions that this committee has made in providing direction and the opportunity for staff to respond.

[1:05:25] Trustee Luckham: And ultimately, when they've completed them, they fall off the list.

[1:05:28] Trustee Luckham: And if I'm mistaken there, perhaps the CEO might like to expand upon that.

[1:05:33] Trustee Luckham: Well,

[1:05:34] Trustee Bernardo: before I see Trustee Evans has got a remark to come back. And just a moment, Trustee Evans, I'll certainly let you speak next. But what I'm hearing, Trustee Luck, and Trustee Evans, we will clarify this is you may well be describing how the rationale for this action list is currently.

[1:05:58] Trustee Bernardo: but what I'm hearing from Trustee Evans

[1:06:00] Trustee Bernardo: is that perhaps we ought to consider a greater rigor

[1:06:08] Trustee Bernardo: in terms of the kind of things that we asked staff to do

[1:06:11] Trustee Bernardo: from this committee.

[1:06:14] Trustee Bernardo: And to be blunt, that we put a price on these things

[1:06:17] Trustee Bernardo: and we create benchmarks, performance benchmarks,

[1:06:20] Trustee Bernardo: so we just don't toss them off in the direction of trustee

[1:06:22] Trustee Bernardo: of the staff, and then just sort of hope for the best,

[1:06:26] Trustee Bernardo: but rather that we actually create some benchmarks on performance of these things.

[1:06:30] Trustee Bernardo: Now, of course, that's what I understood Trustee Evans to be saying.

[1:06:33] Trustee Bernardo: She's next to speak, and she can tell me whether I've got that right or wrong.

[1:06:36] Trustee Bernardo: Go ahead, please.

[1:06:38] Voice 7: That is exactly correct.

[1:06:39] Voice 7: So, for example, the action that we just asked staff to do in business settings,

[1:06:48] Voice 7: we would say how many hours are we going to associate with that particular task?

[1:06:53] Voice 7: So it might be 20 full-time hours, and then we can see whether or not we've managed to contain that work within those 20 hours.

[1:07:04] Voice 7: It's a way to be responsible with our taxpayers' dollars.

[1:07:07] Voice 7: And it's also a way for us to track to see how much work is being spent and whether or not we're actually spinning wheels and not accomplishing anything and using up the staff hours on items that have no measurable return in the end.

[1:07:24] Voice 7: Thank you so much.

[1:07:26] Trustee Bernardo: I'm going to suggest that I think it's been a very useful discussion.

[1:07:32] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think it necessarily has to result in a formal motion or anything like that.

[1:07:36] Trustee Bernardo: But if Trustee Evans thinks it's reasonable,

[1:07:41] Trustee Bernardo: I'm going to suggest that she take up Trustee Boland's offer

[1:07:46] Trustee Bernardo: to work with her to brainstorm some ideas

[1:07:50] Trustee Bernardo: to how to sharpen this up along the lines

[1:07:54] Trustee Bernardo: that you're contemplating Trustee Evans,

[1:07:56] Trustee Bernardo: and perhaps work with appropriate staff, Julia,

[1:07:59] Trustee Bernardo: or whoever else can be helpful in this respect,

[1:08:01] Trustee Bernardo: and then come back to the next financial planning committee

[1:08:04] Trustee Bernardo: with something a bit more developed

[1:08:05] Trustee Bernardo: and perhaps even be in a position

[1:08:09] Trustee Bernardo: to send the materials ahead of time before the meeting

[1:08:11] Trustee Bernardo: about what the suggestion would be

[1:08:13] Trustee Bernardo: and then we would do that.

[1:08:14] Trustee Bernardo: Does that work for you, Trustee Evans?

[1:08:19] Voice 7: Sorry, it took me a minute to unmute.

[1:08:20] Voice 7: I would love that opportunity, thank you very much.

[1:08:22] Voice 7: And I just want to say,

[1:08:23] Voice 7: I'm going to just have to run out quickly

[1:08:25] Voice 7: to take my puppy for a piddle.

[1:08:27] Voice 7: So I'll be about 30 seconds away from the screen.

[1:08:29] Trustee Bernardo: All right, thank you.

[1:08:31] Trustee Bernardo: All right, well, that takes care of that.

[1:08:33] Trustee Bernardo: Let's move on to the next item.

[1:08:34] Trustee Bernardo: um uh director freighter i believe you're the responsible person for to address this issue

[1:08:42] Voice 5: yes thank you chair uh so this item is regarding um having um advocacy or investigating the merit

[1:08:50] Voice 5: of advocacy on the um topic of changing legislation as it applies to special tax requisitions

[1:08:58] Voice 5: um robert if you or whoever's driving the screen if you'd like to move back to the fall

[1:09:01] Voice 5: action list. I think it's the second item. It came about as a discussion from financial planning

[1:09:07] Voice 5: committee about the way in which the tax requisition is applied in that it has to be

[1:09:12] Voice 5: levied across an entire local trust area. So this also includes associated islands. So an example is

[1:09:18] Voice 5: for Salt Spring Island, there's a special tax requisition in place for watershed protection

[1:09:22] Voice 5: and it's levied on Piers Island, even though there may not be a direct application of that program

[1:09:28] Voice 5: to Piers Island. We have no flexibility in how we apply that. So the same might be said of

[1:09:32] Voice 5: Gabriola. For example, if you have a program that you levy a special tax requisition for that's just

[1:09:37] Voice 5: for example, a Gabriola planning project, the other islands like Munch would have to contribute

[1:09:41] Voice 5: as well. So there was asking us as staff to investigate whether this could be changed

[1:09:46] Voice 5: and provide advice back on whether or not this should be recommended as an advocacy

[1:09:52] Voice 5: activity that the trust undertakes. Apologies, I had anticipated to try and get to this. I

[1:09:57] Voice 5: I actually don't anticipate we'll get to this until,

[1:09:59] Voice 5: you know, pre-summer.

[1:10:01] Voice 5: My team is not yet fully staffed.

[1:10:03] Voice 5: So it's likely to be some time

[1:10:05] Voice 5: until I'm ready to provide you with this advice.

[1:10:07] Voice 5: I'd be happy to answer any questions around that.

[1:10:10] Trustee Bernardo: I don't have any questions,

[1:10:12] Trustee Bernardo: but do any other committee members have any questions

[1:10:14] Trustee Bernardo: for Director Frater?

[1:10:19] Trustee Bernardo: Hearing none, I think we should take Director Frater's

[1:10:24] Trustee Bernardo: remarks at face value.

[1:10:25] Trustee Bernardo: Simply the work,

[1:10:30] Trustee Bernardo: there are other priorities

[1:10:31] Trustee Bernardo: and there's resourcing issues there's really essentially nothing to report on this uh we may

[1:10:37] Trustee Bernardo: have something later in the year so let's move on to the next action item uh director mobs uh thanks

[1:10:45] Voice 2: chair so the first item on the follow-up action list assigned to me that's still in progress

[1:10:49] Voice 2: relates to trust council's reserve and surplus policy so there has been direction to staff to

[1:10:54] Voice 2: review that policy for possible uh language changes uh to sort of make that policy a little

[1:10:59] Voice 2: little more appropriate and complete, make sure that there's best practices that are reflected

[1:11:03] Voice 2: there. The target date for this work is August, so my time is very busy during budget cycle,

[1:11:08] Voice 2: and so I'm planning to put time to that work post-budget cycle, which would be in the summer

[1:11:14] Voice 2: months. With your permission, Chair, I'll just blast through the rest of the follow-up action

[1:11:18] Voice 2: list items that are assigned to me.

[1:11:20] Trustee Bernardo: Before you do that, just very briefly,

[1:11:22] Trustee Bernardo: go back to that first item that you were talking about there. Could you briefly advise

[1:11:28] Trustee Bernardo: advise the committee what the originating concern was that led to the desire or the direction to

[1:11:39] Trustee Bernardo: investigate possible language changes. Is there a concern that we may, in fact, not be handling

[1:11:47] Trustee Bernardo: our reserves and surpluses the right way? And if so, what are those concerns?

[1:11:53] Voice 2: Sure. You'll see in the follow-up action item language, it talks about making sure that the

[1:12:00] Voice 2: language in the policy does not violate best practices related to the use of surplus funds

[1:12:06] Voice 2: to fund operating expenses. Traditionally, using surplus funds to fund operating expenses

[1:12:12] Voice 2: is not best practice as, of course, operating expenses are annual expenses. You can't rely on

[1:12:17] Voice 2: a savings fund to fund those types of spending historically in islands trust budget cycles trust

[1:12:24] Voice 2: council has approved draws from surplus to be to offset general operating expenditures

[1:12:30] Voice 2: the language in the policy does give some room for that to happen so it talks about using surplus

[1:12:36] Voice 2: money to address extraordinary or unexpected operating spending and so previous financial

[1:12:44] Voice 2: planning committee wanted to make sure that that language with that little bit of flexibility was

[1:12:48] Voice 2: appropriate fair

[1:12:50] Trustee Bernardo: enough uh as we proceed by the way i this this remark is for the the committee

[1:12:56] Trustee Bernardo: as a whole and thank you for that director mobs director mobs has a number of follow-up items

[1:13:01] Trustee Bernardo: that she's going to review and rather than specifically ask for questions with respect

[1:13:05] Trustee Bernardo: to each one of these things i'm going to ask director mobs to simply proceed on reporting

[1:13:11] Trustee Bernardo: with respect to each of these items.

[1:13:12] Trustee Bernardo: And if at any juncture, any trustee has a question

[1:13:17] Trustee Bernardo: or an observation to make, simply put your hand up

[1:13:21] Trustee Bernardo: and you'll be recognized, we'll be able to address it.

[1:13:24] Trustee Bernardo: But in the interest of efficiency,

[1:13:25] Trustee Bernardo: let's hand it over to Director Mobs

[1:13:28] Trustee Bernardo: to see if we can sort of get through this fairly quickly.

[1:13:32] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[1:13:34] Trustee Bernardo: Director Mobs, over to you.

[1:13:36] Voice 2: Thanks, Chair.

[1:13:37] Voice 2: So the next follow-up action items assigned to me

[1:13:40] Voice 2: you relate to the special property tax requisition policy this is a trust council policy that has

[1:13:45] Voice 2: been reviewed by previous financial planning committee with some proposed amendments

[1:13:50] Voice 2: there was some feedback received from financial planning committee requesting some additional

[1:13:54] Voice 2: changes to that policy before it's forwarded to trust council for final approval and so that's

[1:14:00] Voice 2: what's reflected on the follow-up action list those amendments still have to take place before

[1:14:04] Voice 2: the final policy goes forward to trust council i'm planning to take on that work in june also

[1:14:09] Voice 2: so after budget cycle. And that policy will come to Financial Planning Committee again, just so that

[1:14:16] Voice 2: you can see the final wording before it goes on to Trust Council. The next item relates to another

[1:14:22] Voice 2: policy, which is trustee remuneration policy. Again, Financial Planning Committee did review

[1:14:26] Voice 2: this policy with its proposed changes and had some feedback. And again, we are planning to make

[1:14:32] Voice 2: those changes, bring the amended policy back to Financial Planning Committee, and then move it

[1:14:36] Voice 2: forward to trust council for their approval and that's planned for august those are the only items

[1:14:43] Voice 2: on the follow-up action list that are noted as in progress all of the other items are listed as

[1:14:48] Voice 2: completed which traditionally we don't speak to but happy to take any questions uh

[1:14:55] Trustee Bernardo: the floor is

[1:14:56] Trustee Bernardo: open to any questions and uh and with respect to the specific items that trustee or sorry director

[1:15:03] Trustee Bernardo: mobs have spoke to but also any questions with respect to completed items i don't propose for

[1:15:09] Trustee Bernardo: for us to review the completed items

[1:15:10] Trustee Bernardo: unless anybody has any questions with respect to them.

[1:15:16] Trustee Bernardo: Seeing no questions,

[1:15:20] Trustee Bernardo: thank you all for the follow-up reports.

[1:15:23] Trustee Bernardo: Move on to the next agenda item, please.

[1:15:31] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, here we are.

[1:15:32] Trustee Bernardo: We're at the edge of the cliff.

[1:15:37] Trustee Bernardo: We're into the real work now.

[1:15:40] Trustee Bernardo: And the first item,

[1:15:42] Trustee Bernardo: and I expect Director Mobs has something to say here,

[1:15:45] Trustee Bernardo: which is changes to the budget since the last review.

[1:15:47] Trustee Bernardo: or you again, Director Mops.

[1:15:50] Voice 2: Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[1:15:52] Voice 2: So I will review the report that's included

[1:15:54] Voice 2: in the agenda package.

[1:15:56] Voice 2: I will discuss verbally some of the changes

[1:15:58] Voice 2: that have happened to the budget

[1:16:00] Voice 2: or that have been incorporated in the budget

[1:16:02] Voice 2: since it was last reviewed at the trust council table.

[1:16:05] Voice 2: And then I'll happily take questions to make sure

[1:16:07] Voice 2: that there's good understanding of what those changes are.

[1:16:10] Voice 2: And then we can move on to the budget

[1:16:12] Voice 2: in its larger capacity.

[1:16:13] Voice 2: capacity. So the report begins on page 24 of the agenda package. The first item there that's noted

[1:16:20] Voice 2: as a change to the budget is related to the surplus draw. So Trust Council did give direction

[1:16:26] Voice 2: to staff to draw an additional $79,000 from the General Revenue Surplus Fund to offset spending

[1:16:32] Voice 2: in the budget. And so that has been incorporated in the current version of the budget that's before

[1:16:37] Voice 2: you today. We've also had new data come to us from BC Assessment. So at the end of December

[1:16:43] Voice 2: each year BC Assessment updates their information and we do incorporate that information into the

[1:16:48] Voice 2: budget. One of the first changes that we see relates to non-market change percentages

[1:16:54] Voice 2: in the property value in the Islands Trust Area. So what we see is a pretty substantial shift

[1:17:02] Voice 2: in the non-market change factors for local trust areas. So the previous version of the budget was

[1:17:07] Voice 2: was anticipating that 1.25% of our local tax area increase

[1:17:12] Voice 2: would be generated on new construction and development.

[1:17:16] Voice 2: What's been reported now is that there's actually

[1:17:18] Voice 2: an 8% increase in property value

[1:17:20] Voice 2: coming from new construction.

[1:17:21] Voice 2: And so we're seeing more of our property tax levy

[1:17:25] Voice 2: generated on new construction and development

[1:17:27] Voice 2: as opposed to the average homeowner.

[1:17:32] Trustee Bernardo: So if I can comment or ask a question,

[1:17:36] Trustee Bernardo: and it sounds like a pretty major assumption has changed.

[1:17:41] Trustee Bernardo: Is that right?

[1:17:42] Voice 2: That's correct.

[1:17:45] Trustee Bernardo: And how are we to weigh this?

[1:17:50] Trustee Bernardo: Is this best viewed as a one-time benefit

[1:17:55] Trustee Bernardo: or is it possible to project future revenue

[1:18:00] Trustee Bernardo: on the basis of this development?

[1:18:04] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, beyond this tax year.

[1:18:07] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah,

[1:18:08] Voice 2: so this is specific to this particular tax year. And it lets us know how much the change in property value within the trust area, how much of that change is coming from market factors versus non-market factors, and that can change year to year.

[1:18:24] Voice 2: And so we could see a situation next fiscal where we have 1% non-market change or 0% potentially. And then we would end up having to collect more of our tax revenue from the existing tax base as opposed to new construction.

[1:18:40] Voice 2: construction.

[1:18:42] Trustee Bernardo: Maybe I'm just dense, but can you explain, provide it like this seems this is an

[1:18:46] Trustee Bernardo: important development. And if we could take just a bit of time, perhaps you could explain the

[1:18:51] Trustee Bernardo: mechanics of this. Because I'm actually not following it that clearly as to how does this

[1:18:55] Trustee Bernardo: come about. I'm having trouble sort of following actually where the why we're getting this increase

[1:19:03] Trustee Bernardo: in revenue. Like I said, it may seem kind of dense, but I need to explain. Thank you.

[1:19:09] Trustee Bernardo: So

[1:19:10] Voice 2: that is an important distinction. It's not an increase in Islands Trust revenue. So what it is, is it talks, the non-market change speaks to the distribution of where our tax revenue is collected.

[1:19:24] Voice 2: So our tax revenue in absolute dollar terms is driven by the budget numbers itself. So we see that we need an increase in our tax revenue of X dollars. And then we look to non-market change to understand how much of that increase in tax revenue will be collected on existing properties within the trust area versus new properties in the trust area.

[1:19:49] Voice 2: And that's the new properties, new construction is what's considered non-market change.

[1:19:53] Voice 2: So in a year like this year, where we see fairly significant percentages assigned to non-market factors, we would expect a larger percentage of our tax revenue increase to be collected on new properties and a smaller amount generated on existing properties.

[1:20:11] Trustee Bernardo: So if I understand that correctly, there's been a spike in new construction, far above what we expected. That's going to lead to more of our budget items being covered by that source of revenue.

[1:20:30] Trustee Bernardo: But there's no guarantee that this spike is an indicator of what will happen the next year. Is that fair enough?

[1:20:39] Voice 2: I think that's fair enough.

[1:20:41] Trustee Bernardo: All right. Thank you.

[1:20:42] Trustee Bernardo: I see Trustee Evans has a question.

[1:20:46] Voice 7: Yes, and this is something that I'm trying to wrap my head around as well.

[1:20:49] Voice 7: I see the line item in the budget, which equates then to tax, quite a hefty tax increase to the populace as well.

[1:21:00] Voice 7: Is this something that can be controlled?

[1:21:05] Voice 7: role does it do we have to like tax the general populace of that much money for for because of

[1:21:14] Voice 7: this new market non-market change i found that very confusing um

[1:21:23] Voice 2: so i don't think i fully

[1:21:24] Voice 2: understand your question uh are you talking about the 2.75 percent that will be collected from the

[1:21:32] Voice 2: the general property tax base? So,

[1:21:34] Voice 7: on the budget itself, there is a line item for the non-market

[1:21:39] Voice 7: change, and it was quite a large number. The 8%. So, the $585,000.

[1:21:52] Voice 2: Yes. So, that represents the

[1:21:54] Voice 2: 8% non-market change. And so, what we're seeing is in the current draft of the budget,

[1:22:01] Voice 2: it. We're seeing a tax increase of $786,000 over and above tax revenues that were collected last

[1:22:09] Voice 2: year. We are expecting that $585,000 of that will be collected on new construction and $200,000

[1:22:18] Voice 2: will be a true increase to the existing property base.

[1:22:23] Voice 7: Okay, so that $600,000 is only on new

[1:22:26] Voice 7: construction that is not coming from the general tax increase to everybody that's already

[1:22:35] Voice 7: got their house and living here?

[1:22:37] Voice 2: That's correct. With a small caveat, non-market change is also

[1:22:43] Voice 2: attributable to changes in land use. So if we see significant changes in land use such that the

[1:22:49] Voice 2: value of a property would rise significantly, then you might see some of that increase coming from

[1:22:55] Voice 2: an existing property that's experienced a change but

[1:22:59] Trustee Bernardo: the bottom line here is that we're getting

[1:23:01] Trustee Bernardo: close to six hundred thousand dollars um when the line item says property tax levy that's not

[1:23:09] Trustee Bernardo: for that roughly six hundred thousand dollar amount that's not a new tax levy that is simply

[1:23:14] Trustee Bernardo: an increase of our share uh of what's already being levied uh on property owners is that right

[1:23:25] Voice 2: um i'm going to need you to just say that again well

[1:23:28] Trustee Bernardo: uh i i think trustee uh evans and she'll

[1:23:32] Trustee Bernardo: have to correct me if i'm wrong about this i think she's getting at you wanted to make sure that

[1:23:36] Trustee Bernardo: when we look at these line items there's three of them there's a property tax levy that

[1:23:40] Trustee Bernardo: they're they're not they're not all about um increasing taxes the 201 000 line item that is

[1:23:50] Trustee Bernardo: the proposed, according to this draft budget, that's the proposed general increase in tax revenue

[1:23:55] Trustee Bernardo: that would require an increase in the tax rate. The other two items are

[1:24:05] Trustee Bernardo: numbers that reflect, because of these, you mentioned non-market changes,

[1:24:11] Trustee Bernardo: a change in the amount of money we're getting from the pre-existing rural property tax levy.

[1:24:18] Trustee Bernardo: on those properties. Is that right?

[1:24:21] Voice 2: That's right. And that's precisely why we break it

[1:24:23] Voice 2: out into three lines that way is so we can make those distinctions.

[1:24:26] Trustee Bernardo: All right. So one reflects a

[1:24:29] Trustee Bernardo: proposed tax increase. The other two reflect an increased cut in what's already been collected

[1:24:35] Trustee Bernardo: by the province.

[1:24:38] Voice 2: Yes. The first number is what we collected last year. So no reflection of a

[1:24:43] Voice 2: of a change uh the second number reflects what would be an increase uh to taxpayers and the

[1:24:48] Voice 2: third number is new money is coming from new construction so not an increase got

[1:24:53] Voice 4: it trustee

[1:24:55] Voice 4: bowman thanks

[1:24:58] Voice 6: thanks yeah my understanding yeah i i think i get it but um i just would like to

[1:25:05] Voice 6: reflect on the fact that so this money is coming from what could be regarded as new to the community

[1:25:12] Voice 6: taxpayers. So regardless, it's tax from people who live in the islands. Some of them will see

[1:25:20] Voice 6: it just as an introduction to the islands tax because it's a new property. But, you know,

[1:25:26] Voice 6: the general tenor of how we should be tackling it, I don't think we should see that as kind of

[1:25:32] Voice 6: free money in some way. It's attached to people and to properties and people who live in the

[1:25:39] Voice 6: islands so we should treat it fiscally responsibly thank you thank

[1:25:48] Trustee Bernardo: you for that uh it's always good

[1:25:50] Trustee Bernardo: to be reminded that uh these numbers reflect real money that comes from real people and whether it's

[1:25:57] Trustee Bernardo: a long-term or one-off uh benefit of getting revenue uh our responsibility is uh remains the

[1:26:05] Trustee Bernardo: the same. All right, if we could proceed to the next item, please. Mr. Chair. Oh, sorry. CAO has

[1:26:12] Trustee Bernardo: a remark. Go ahead. Thank you.

[1:26:14] Voice 12: Yes, please. I just wanted to reiterate Julia's comment that it's more

[1:26:18] Voice 12: than just new construction. It's also the development regime as well. When you're going

[1:26:22] Voice 12: from agricultural to a residential property, there might be a change there. But also, I don't think

[1:26:28] Voice 12: it's completely a one-off as this glut of new development will become part of the tax base for

[1:26:34] Voice 12: next year upon which non-market factors would be then applied on any new developments so in essence

[1:26:41] Voice 12: the tax base is increased it's not it can be looked at over a time horizon next year there

[1:26:48] Voice 12: will be more taxpayers contributing to the function so thank you very much thank you

[1:26:56] Voice 12: director mobs uh

[1:26:59] Voice 2: okay so we're also seeing a very similar change uh in non-market factors as it

[1:27:04] Voice 2: relates to the Bowen Island tax levy. So, the previous version of the budget was assuming about

[1:27:10] Voice 2: a 1% non-market change factor. What we're actually seeing now is 6.6%. So, again, what that means is

[1:27:18] Voice 2: we're expecting that a larger percentage of the Bowen Island tax levy will be collected

[1:27:23] Voice 2: from new construction and development as opposed to existing taxpayers.

[1:27:28] Voice 2: fares. The BC assessment converted assessment values have also been made available. This

[1:27:37] Voice 2: information primarily drives the Bowen Island municipal tax levy. So if Bowen Island holds

[1:27:43] Voice 2: 16.5% of the property value within the trust, then they will contribute to the island's trust

[1:27:49] Voice 2: budget at a rate of 16.5% or more specifically contribute to the pieces of the budget that they

[1:27:55] Voice 2: are responsible for and that is what we're seeing we're seeing in the current draft of the budget

[1:27:59] Voice 2: uh reflection of bone island property tax or property value at 16.5 percent as opposed to

[1:28:06] Voice 2: the previous budget draft which had an assumption of 15.46 percent so they are contributing to the

[1:28:12] Voice 2: budget at a slightly higher rate than previously set all

[1:28:18] Trustee Bernardo: right thank you uh

[1:28:20] Voice 2: there has been updates

[1:28:21] Voice 2: to BC assessment information as it relates to land folios.

[1:28:25] Voice 2: This information impacts trustee remuneration.

[1:28:28] Voice 2: So trustees are remunerated based on the number of folios

[1:28:31] Voice 2: in their local trust area.

[1:28:33] Voice 2: And so we've updated trustee remuneration calculation

[1:28:35] Voice 2: for the new folios information from BC assessment.

[1:28:39] Voice 2: We've also updated the trustee remuneration calculation

[1:28:41] Voice 2: for newly reflected CPI rates.

[1:28:44] Voice 2: Policy does dictate that the December CPI

[1:28:47] Voice 2: should be the value that's used

[1:28:50] Voice 2: in the trustee remuneration calculation that number was not available at the time of the

[1:28:54] Voice 2: budget draft and so we've updated it to reflect November's value and we will further update to

[1:28:59] Voice 2: reflect December when that information is available. We are seeing CPI at 6.7 percent

[1:29:05] Voice 2: previous version of the budget had 5.2 so those factors have increased trustee remuneration in

[1:29:10] Voice 2: the budget by about $8,300. Thank you.

[1:29:14] Voice 2: We've also seen changes and increases to staff salaries and

[1:29:18] Voice 2: benefits. So we've updated staff salaries amounts to reflect actual salaries for newly hired staff

[1:29:25] Voice 2: positions. We've done some reassessment on staff overtime to update those values. And we've also

[1:29:31] Voice 2: included the addition of one new staff position. There is a business case in the agenda package

[1:29:37] Voice 2: for this new staff position, as well as a draft job description. This is for one full-time

[1:29:42] Voice 2: equivalent. It's a manager of finance and accounting, and that position would support

[1:29:46] Voice 2: the administrative services team, primarily the finance team, and we'll have an opportunity to

[1:29:51] Voice 2: go through the details of that business case when we get there, if the committee wishes.

[1:29:56] Voice 2: Local trust committee projects, you might remember financial planning committee.

[1:30:00] Voice 2: direction for the amount for specific local trust committee projects to be capped at $250,000 in the

[1:30:06] Voice 2: budget. However, the actual asks from local trust committees were $422,000. So of course, in order

[1:30:12] Voice 2: to achieve that cap, some local trust committees would have to reduce their asks. We are seeing

[1:30:17] Voice 2: that the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee and Gabriola Island Local Trust Committee have

[1:30:21] Voice 2: reduced their project asks. And so we have now achieved that cap of $250,000 for specific

[1:30:29] Voice 2: Pacific Local Trust Committees in the budget. And those updated business cases are also included

[1:30:34] Voice 2: in the agenda materials. Of course, with changes to the budget, we see changes in the Bowen Island

[1:30:42] Voice 2: tax levy, some of which I've spoken to already. The Bowen Island tax levy, it's calculated to be

[1:30:47] Voice 2: $355,000 in this version of the budget. That's $27,000 lower than what we saw in the previous

[1:30:54] Voice 2: version of the budget. And this figure reflects a 9.6% increase over last year. Again, we're

[1:31:01] Voice 2: expecting 6.6% of that to come from new construction. And of course, the changes to the

[1:31:07] Voice 2: budget also impact local trust area taxes. We've talked about that a little bit during our non-market

[1:31:11] Voice 2: change discussion. But the increase in spending from 9.6 million to 9.8 million, again, you might

[1:31:19] Voice 2: expect to see a local trust area tax increase from that due to non-market factors. We're actually

[1:31:24] Voice 2: seeing a reduction so the current version of the budget has a 2.75% general tax lift plus the 8%

[1:31:31] Voice 2: expected to come from new construction and the previous version of the draft budget had 7%

[1:31:37] Voice 2: coming expected as a general increase plus 1% coming from non-market change factor so it's

[1:31:42] Voice 2: almost a direct flip in that regard. As mentioned we've had a change in the amount we're drawing

[1:31:49] Voice 2: from surplus to reflect council's direction. Page 26 of the budget summarizes the final results of

[1:31:56] Voice 2: the budget. I won't go through that in detail unless there's a desire from the committee for

[1:32:00] Voice 2: me to do so. It's simply reflected there as a summarized place for trustees to refer to.

[1:32:06] Voice 2: Some of what's coming up in next versions of the budget that's not reflected here,

[1:32:10] Voice 2: we will be performing third quarter forecasts and the results of those forecasts will be looked at

[1:32:17] Voice 2: to see if there's any updates that need to happen in the next budget draft so if we are identifying

[1:32:22] Voice 2: that a project will not be completed by the end of the year and we need to carry over some of the

[1:32:27] Voice 2: existing funding into next year's budget to complete the project we'll be doing that we've

[1:32:32] Voice 2: also received new information related to excluded staff salary increases so the previous version of

[1:32:38] Voice 2: the budget had an estimate for expected increases for excluded staff we now have actual amounts for

[1:32:44] Voice 2: that and that will be included in the next draft budget as well. Not included in this version of

[1:32:50] Voice 2: the draft budget is $15,000 for an expense claim system that we're hoping to enhance and create

[1:32:57] Voice 2: some improvements around. The business case for that item is included in the agenda package. The

[1:33:02] Voice 2: dollars are not reflected in the budget itself just due to the timing of when that business case

[1:33:06] Voice 2: was received. The budget was already closed but it is there for information and again staff can

[1:33:11] Voice 2: speak to that if the committee wishes. So I think I'm going to pause there and just take any

[1:33:16] Voice 2: questions if there are any empty

[1:33:18] Voice 2: hands going up.

[1:33:19] Trustee Bernardo: That's timely, Director Mobs, because we do have

[1:33:21] Trustee Bernardo: some questions. Trustee Boland?

[1:33:25] Voice 6: Could I just ask you to quickly speak to the fact that the minimum

[1:33:31] Voice 6: surplus balance required is not met right now under the current budget, please. Thank you.

[1:33:38] Voice 6: Uh,

[1:33:40] Voice 2: indeed. So the, there's policy that dictates we must hold a minimum amount in our general

[1:33:47] Voice 2: surplus fund. Um, the amount to be held in general surplus is, uh, partially a factor of the size of

[1:33:55] Voice 2: the budget. So our budget has increased in this version. We have also drawn more from the surplus

[1:34:01] Voice 2: fund, uh, to, to fund, uh, work in this budget. And so when staff have generated the calculation

[1:34:08] Voice 2: of the minimum balance, we are seeing a deficit. So it's about $100,000, $115,000 shortfall.

[1:34:16] Voice 2: We will be updating the calculation when we do the third quarter forecast. Traditionally,

[1:34:21] Voice 2: what we see is that more money would be flowing into the surplus fund from underspending in the

[1:34:25] Voice 2: current year. That would then bolster that amount. And if there's any changes that are made to the

[1:34:31] Voice 2: budget today, those will be reflected in any updated calculations. But for now, it's reflecting

[1:34:36] Voice 2: a shortfall so

[1:34:39] Trustee Bernardo: to put a sharper point on that which is where we're at right now with this

[1:34:42] Trustee Bernardo: particular draft budget is it's not in compliance with our surplus policy that's

[1:34:48] Voice 2: correct all right

[1:34:49] Trustee Bernardo: trustee peterson yeah

[1:34:53] Voice 16: thank you chair this was uh also the subject of my question and

[1:34:59] Voice 16: i was just wondering um if in terms of us not being compliant with our own policy um

[1:35:06] Voice 16: It appears that we may need to rejig the figures here to be compliant with that policy.

[1:35:17] Voice 16: I'm wondering also, there was the item in the follow-up action list that you addressed about surplus.

[1:35:24] Voice 16: And I'm just wondering in this particular situation, how that future work sort of relates to the situation we're in now.

[1:35:33] Voice 16: I

[1:35:37] Voice 2: think if the policy were to be amended significantly to remove the flexibility of

[1:35:47] Voice 2: using draws from surplus for extraordinary or unexpected operating spending, we might see an

[1:35:53] Voice 2: impact in this situation. That is because Trust Council gave direction to draw money from surplus

[1:36:00] Voice 2: plus, in part to fund the unexpected and unusually large increases to staff salaries that are

[1:36:07] Voice 2: dictated to us from the union. So we could see an impact there if the language were to change

[1:36:13] Voice 2: significantly. For now, the policy is what it is, and we're in compliance with that policy.

[1:36:20] Voice 16: If I could just follow up. Go ahead. I think you just said we were in compliance with this policy,

[1:36:27] Voice 16: but i thought we just um identified that we're not in in compliance with the minimum uh surplus

[1:36:35] Voice 16: amount we're

[1:36:36] Voice 2: not in compliance with the minimum balance we are in compliance with the use of

[1:36:40] Voice 2: with the way it's

[1:36:42] Voice 16: being used okay so so we're okay thank you for that clarity

[1:36:48] Voice 16: sound

[1:36:52] Trustee Bernardo: please audio your audio is on and

[1:37:08] Trustee Luckham: my mouse wasn't cooperating sorry um with regards to the

[1:37:12] Trustee Luckham: the minimum surplus. I think this is all about risk. And I think the previous council was more

[1:37:22] Trustee Luckham: acceptable of a higher level of risk than what quite possibly this council needs to turn its

[1:37:29] Trustee Luckham: mind to to determine if that's true or not. However, the risk is that we don't have enough

[1:37:36] Trustee Luckham: have money in the bank to cover salaries and anticipated expenses, which I don't believe

[1:37:43] Trustee Luckham: has ever happened, which Julia can correct me if I'm wrong there, which is why the previous

[1:37:49] Trustee Luckham: council was more tolerant of a higher level of risk and not having the minimums set out.

[1:37:58] Trustee Luckham: And so just wanted to put that into context about why that exists and whether or not

[1:38:03] Trustee Luckham: the policy needs to be changed or whether or not the flexibility that council presently has

[1:38:09] Trustee Luckham: is adequate. Because at the end of the day, if indeed there was a failure for the province to

[1:38:16] Trustee Luckham: provide us the funding necessary to continue our operations, we would be probably cutting back

[1:38:22] Trustee Luckham: projects and other expenditures until that money was forthcoming from the province. So that's

[1:38:27] Trustee Luckham: essentially the risk. And maybe I'll just get Julia to confirm or deny that presumption is

[1:38:35] Trustee Luckham: correct. Well, before

[1:38:37] Trustee Bernardo: we go there, I'm not sure I actually understand what you mean by higher

[1:38:45] Trustee Bernardo: tolerance of risk. I'm not actually following it because presumably the policy serves a purpose

[1:38:52] Trustee Bernardo: and it has its terms. I don't know if I don't think it's open to us to simply say, well, because

[1:39:01] Trustee Bernardo: You know, Trust Council decides it's prepared to take a higher risk that we should necessarily ignore the policy. The Trust Council isn't necessarily, isn't in fact bound by its policies. It can decide what it wants, but it should do that on a principled basis. So I'm not exactly following what you mean by risk, but rather than have you explore that, perhaps, as you say, let's turn this over to Director Mobbs to see what she's got to say about that point. Thank you.

[1:39:29] Voice 2: Sure. I believe in the Islands Trust history, there was a time when cash resources were quite constrained between the end of the fiscal year and the time that Islands Trust receives property tax revenue, which traditionally is towards the end of July.

[1:39:47] Voice 2: So I believe there were times in history where we were constrained in that manner, and for that reason, policy was brought into place to establish a minimum balance to be held in the surplus fund to make sure that those cash resources were available to get us through that time.

[1:40:02] Voice 2: The policy as I see it originally was drafted many many years ago it's had several amendments, one of the most recent amendments was actually to reduce the amount that's required to be held in the minimum balance.

[1:40:14] Voice 2: balance so formerly the policy said three months worth of operating expenses must be held it's now

[1:40:20] Voice 2: been amended to say 2.4 months of operating expenses must be held and that is due to the

[1:40:26] Voice 2: fact that we have we have never come close to running out of cash resources in many many years

[1:40:33] Voice 2: since we've had this policy in place so the identification was that maybe we can hold less

[1:40:37] Voice 2: in surplus I don't know if that helps or hurts the conversation happy to answer more questions

[1:40:43] Voice 2: if there are any well

[1:40:45] Trustee Bernardo: they you know traditionally we've had a surplus of three months worth of

[1:40:50] Trustee Bernardo: operating expenses if i'm what i'm hearing is that the rationale for having less is that we

[1:40:59] Trustee Bernardo: haven't been burned in the past before but it doesn't take away from the fact that having two

[1:41:03] Trustee Bernardo: and a half months worth of operating expenses as opposed to three means that we're flying a little

[1:41:09] Trustee Bernardo: closer to the ground than we were before regardless and you know there's always a first

[1:41:15] Trustee Bernardo: time whatever is unknown in the future is still unknown so is that the risk we're taking that

[1:41:21] Trustee Bernardo: we're basically you know um taking a chance that there's not going to be a huge revenue

[1:41:28] Trustee Bernardo: call on us in the future that reaches a scale of two and a half months yeah

[1:41:35] Voice 2: when financial

[1:41:36] Voice 2: planning committee undertook the analysis of the surplus balance to see what the risk was to us in

[1:41:42] Voice 2: those first few months of the fiscal year, it was very low. We really never came close

[1:41:48] Voice 2: to running out of cash resources at the three-month mark. I don't think we'll be anywhere

[1:41:54] Voice 2: close to running out of cash resources at the 2.4% mark. Some of that discussion is because

[1:42:00] Voice 2: the minimum balance speaks to a surplus number. Surplus funds actually aren't cash dollars.

[1:42:06] Voice 2: There's a distinction in accounting between cash and surplus, so that's part of the discussion.

[1:42:12] Voice 2: It's a bit complex for this discussion today, but we're not in a risky position even at

[1:42:18] Voice 2: the current minimum balance.

[1:42:19] Voice 2: One of the other things to consider is the surplus balance, while it's there to get us

[1:42:23] Voice 2: through the first few months of the year, it's also there to fund significant unusual

[1:42:28] Voice 2: spending that might arise in the year if we were to need it.

[1:42:32] Voice 2: We haven't been in that position previously, but again, it's something that could happen.

[1:42:36] Voice 12: Mayor Mrakas, Thank you. CAO?

[1:42:38] Voice 12: Mayor Mrakas, Thank you, Mr Chair, I was just going to reiterate that point it's also for unexpected events like say pandemics, if you know that was unanticipated it didn't turn out to have a significant financial impact, but that would be.

[1:42:52] Voice 12: Mayor Mrakas, Something of value, the other to have on hand and the other is the consideration that.

[1:42:58] Voice 12: Mayor Mrakas, The insurance.

[1:43:00] Voice 12: Insurance, challenges that we've had over time and whether or not we'd be able to self-insure at some point, I think would be relatable to this, to the amount of money we have.

[1:43:12] Voice 12: So it's another consideration, making sure that those monies are well planned for.

[1:43:18] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you for that. I think that's a helpful point because there has been, especially the point about the potential consideration of self-insurance.

[1:43:27] Trustee Bernardo: there has been some speculation or less curiosity on in that area and uh you're quite right uh

[1:43:38] Trustee Bernardo: that's exactly the type if you were going to self-insure that's exactly you do need to have

[1:43:43] Trustee Bernardo: the contingency fund and you've got to have a whole calculation as to what that has to

[1:43:48] Trustee Bernardo: um comprise of the amount that's appropriate and you have to have a surplus to be able to manage it

[1:43:53] Trustee Bernardo: uh all right uh director mobs uh are we done with this uh this overview of the changes

[1:44:01] Trustee Bernardo: uh

[1:44:03] Voice 2: we are i have a brief comment on the self-insurance if i may sure uh what would

[1:44:09] Voice 2: traditionally uh be the case or what would be staff recommendation is if we did end up in a

[1:44:14] Voice 2: self-insurance situation to create a separate reserve fund and dollars would sit in that

[1:44:18] Voice 2: separate reserve fund it would be a legal contingency fund um or legal reserve fund

[1:44:23] Voice 2: uh and it would be separate from the minimum balance in the general surplus fund so we'd make

[1:44:29] Voice 2: a distinction that

[1:44:30] Trustee Bernardo: makes sense thank you for that clarifying point now if we could go back to the

[1:44:35] Trustee Bernardo: original agenda i don't have one in front of me so i can see what the next item is please

[1:44:40] Trustee Bernardo: oh okay so uh this is i think at the juncture where we had decided uh that we were then going

[1:44:47] Trustee Bernardo: going to consider Trustee Bowen's work in reviewing the and proposing some revisions

[1:44:59] Trustee Bernardo: to the budget. But I'm going to suggest that before we do that, in fact, that we don't quite

[1:45:05] Trustee Bernardo: let go of Director Mobbs quite yet, in that you'll recall that at the previous FTC meeting

[1:45:15] Trustee Bernardo: meeting and at the last trust council meeting uh there's a fair bit of concern about tax increase

[1:45:23] Trustee Bernardo: value for money that kind of thing and there was some discussion about um you know revenue

[1:45:31] Trustee Bernardo: constraints whether or not we really should be hiring new people that sort of thing all of that

[1:45:36] Trustee Bernardo: business was really basically left in the air at the last trust council meeting and where the fpc

[1:45:41] Trustee Bernardo: was left after that meeting was it was a clear consensus consensus that a tax tax increase was

[1:45:47] Trustee Bernardo: undesirable and frankly the hot potato that was then left then lobbed back to the fbc to deal with

[1:45:55] Trustee Bernardo: since then uh director mobs has uh has boldly come forward with a proposal like yeah well

[1:46:03] Trustee Bernardo: the hell with that let's add another hundred thousand dollars to it and she set out a business

[1:46:07] Trustee Bernardo: business case for it and I think since we're going to be getting into this business of

[1:46:12] Trustee Bernardo: looking at proposed revisions and how to handle this deficit perhaps director mobs you can walk

[1:46:21] Trustee Bernardo: us through in some detail the through the the business case for this finance manager position

[1:46:30] Trustee Bernardo: it's a big ask but having said that and having looked at the the business case I have to say

[1:46:39] Trustee Bernardo: it's a very detailed business case and without being critical of other business cases

[1:46:47] Trustee Bernardo: far more comprehensive than other things that I've read so far. Anyhow over to you perhaps you

[1:46:54] Trustee Bernardo: could walk us through it because the reason I'm putting so much emphasis on this is

[1:47:00] Trustee Bernardo: Having read the business case, it strikes me as being unusually urgent relative to some of the other requests we've seen.

[1:47:11] Trustee Bernardo: And it appears to have real operational significance.

[1:47:17] Trustee Bernardo: This appears to be a foundational type of request, not necessarily elective, if that makes any sense.

[1:47:26] Trustee Bernardo: that's my impression from reading it but the other trustees may not have had a chance to go

[1:47:30] Trustee Bernardo: through it in detail it's an important request and that's why i'm going to ask you to go through it

[1:47:35] Trustee Bernardo: and trustee luckham i'm going to ask you to wait until after uh director mobs has made

[1:47:41] Trustee Bernardo: her presentation thank you director director mobs uh

[1:47:47] Voice 2: sure thanks mr chair i appreciate you

[1:47:49] Voice 2: highlighting that one that is a business case uh that of course has been submitted by myself

[1:47:53] Voice 2: myself for review by the committee. I do acknowledge, you know, the timing is not

[1:47:58] Voice 2: excellent. It would have been better to have this brought forward at the start of the cycle, but

[1:48:01] Voice 2: it is what it is. Primarily, this business case is highlighting the fact that there is significant

[1:48:07] Voice 2: under-resourcing of the administrative services team, primarily the finance team. There is a large

[1:48:14] Voice 2: component of work that the finance team undertakes. However, the available hours of the director of

[1:48:21] Voice 2: admin services which is myself who oversees the finance team as well as the structure of the

[1:48:26] Voice 2: finance team is a significant hindrance in being able to achieve all of the required tasks that a

[1:48:33] Voice 2: properly functioning finance team would undertake. So I'll speak first to the available working hours

[1:48:40] Voice 2: that the director of admin services role has available. There is an internal staff template

[1:48:46] Voice 2: that helps staff understand how much time there is available to perform their tasks and their

[1:48:53] Voice 2: duties outside of time that's spent overseeing staff in meetings or attending public meetings.

[1:49:01] Voice 2: So for the director position, there is a significant number of meetings that must be

[1:49:05] Voice 2: attended. Of course, there's trust counsel, there's financial planning committee, there's

[1:49:08] Voice 2: audit committee, there's also executive committee meetings that are attended by myself. There's a

[1:49:14] Voice 2: a number of internal meetings that happen as well. Weekly one-on-one check-ins with direct staff.

[1:49:19] Voice 2: This role is a member of the Occupational Health and Safety Committee. There's meetings with the

[1:49:24] Voice 2: CAO. There's meetings with the management team. Many sort of standard internal meetings that take

[1:49:29] Voice 2: place. So when we look at the full-time hours of my position and we remove out annual vacation hours

[1:49:35] Voice 2: and remove out annual hours spent in these meetings, it leaves about a day and a half

[1:49:40] Voice 2: of my time to complete all of the duties in my role and actually not only just to complete the

[1:49:47] Voice 2: duties in my role and in my job description but as is identified in this business case

[1:49:52] Voice 2: to complete essentially an entire other position that remains unfilled within the islands trust

[1:50:01] Voice 2: so there's a list of all of the tasks that are expected to be performed by the director of

[1:50:07] Voice 2: admin services in the business case. Not going to go through those in detail. The list is not

[1:50:11] Voice 2: exhaustive, but it does highlight some of the primary responsibilities that this role takes on.

[1:50:17] Voice 2: And of course, in addition to the financial responsibilities.

[1:50:20] Trustee Bernardo: I'm sorry, I'm going to have to interrupt you. I appreciate we don't have the time or

[1:50:24] Trustee Bernardo: probably the attention span to be able to go through each one of these items.

[1:50:32] Trustee Bernardo: But before we just race on to the next part of the business case, I'm stuck on the day and a half

[1:50:39] Trustee Bernardo: part. And

[1:50:41] Trustee Bernardo: when I look at this long list of things that aren't getting done except within that day

[1:50:45] Trustee Bernardo: and a half period, I mean, the things that jump out at me are the budget planning. So you're the

[1:50:53] Trustee Bernardo: director in charge of all the financial planning. And for that currently, to the extent that you're

[1:51:04] Trustee Bernardo: are able to do any work and plan for the budget and develop things like that, you've basically

[1:51:11] Trustee Bernardo: got a day and a half in the week. And that day and a half isn't devoted entirely to budget planning.

[1:51:18] Trustee Bernardo: It's devoted to some budget planning and then the rest of this other stuff that's on the list.

[1:51:23] Trustee Bernardo: Is that right? That's correct. Okay.

[1:51:28] Voice 2: It has been a challenge. So previous directors in the role

[1:51:32] Voice 2: have cited workload challenges. I have very much experienced that myself. I have required leave

[1:51:38] Voice 2: quite recently to sort of address some health challenges as a result of this. So it's not

[1:51:44] Voice 2: something that's new and it's not a request that's coming forward lately. I would agree with your

[1:51:50] Voice 2: comments that it really is sort of a necessity if we want to have a properly functioning and strong

[1:51:56] Voice 2: strong finance team within the organization, which I do think is paramount, especially if we want to

[1:52:02] Voice 2: be making sound financial decisions. Of course, all of the financial information that comes before

[1:52:07] Voice 2: financial planning committee and also trust counsel is used to inform decisions. So we do

[1:52:13] Voice 2: want to make sure that that information is accurate. And the more support we can have on

[1:52:17] Voice 2: the finance team, the more time we have to make sure that these tasks can be achieved,

[1:52:23] Voice 2: the more we can have assurance that the information is accurate.

[1:52:26] Trustee Bernardo: Are you in a position to say anything about what your predecessors in your position said in their exit interviews about this issue?

[1:52:40] Voice 2: Traditionally, exit interview material is considered confidential.

[1:52:45] Voice 2: And I wouldn't even know the full extent of conversations.

[1:52:49] Voice 2: I'm simply relaying what has been said to me directly.

[1:52:52] Trustee Bernardo: All right. Thank you. Carry on with reviewing the business case, please.

[1:52:58] Voice 2: Sure, thanks. So, as I think I mentioned, the director oversees the finance team and also the human resources team and the information services team. So, that day and a half is spent, you know, working on key financial tasks and then also is required to oversee those two functional areas, which of course also takes time and effort.

[1:53:19] Voice 2: Thankfully, we do have external contract support for the information services team and occasionally we can lean into the public service agency to help with some human resource work if I am particularly stretched.

[1:53:32] Voice 2: But those obviously the oversight of those functions take time as well.

[1:53:37] Voice 2: So when we look at the structure of the finance team, in my view, I think it highlights pretty clearly where some of the issue is stemming from.

[1:53:46] Voice 2: So the director position is considered a strategic leadership position.

[1:53:51] Voice 2: So the position is meant to be taking on strategic level work, initiating and overseeing the implementation of corporate wide strategies.

[1:54:00] Voice 2: And then below that is traditionally what's considered a business leadership position.

[1:54:05] Voice 2: So in the context of finance, that's usually a controller type position.

[1:54:09] Voice 2: So someone who is overseeing the day-to-day business operations, making sure that the higher-level financial tasks on a day-to-day basis are being properly enacted, there is a gap in the structure of the finance team in the business leadership position.

[1:54:26] Voice 2: So my position, the strategic leadership position, is classified as a band five position.

[1:54:31] Voice 2: There are eight classifications below my position before we reach the next staff person, which is classified at a grid 21 level.

[1:54:43] Voice 2: So what that means is that the vast majority of the work from a level 24 up to band five is falling to myself, as well as all of the strategic level work that I'm meant to be undertaking.

[1:54:56] Voice 2: taking. And so I personally think this is a significant deficiency in the structure of the

[1:55:03] Voice 2: finance team at the Islands Trust. We see a more appropriate structure within the planning team.

[1:55:08] Voice 2: I've included an image there of the planning team structure so that you can see primarily what it is

[1:55:15] Voice 2: that I'm speaking to. So the director of local planning services, or sorry, the director of

[1:55:19] Voice 2: planning services, we've changed that name, is also classified at a strategic leadership

[1:55:23] Voice 2: Band 5 level. The next classification in that department is a Band 3 level, which is a business

[1:55:30] Voice 2: leadership position. And then there's also a classification at a 27 and a 24. And the finance

[1:55:37] Voice 2: team does not have these positions. Are

[1:55:41] Trustee Bernardo: you basically saying that the other divisions,

[1:55:45] Trustee Bernardo: if you can call it that, have a complement of middle managers, but administrative services

[1:55:51] Trustee Bernardo: has none uh

[1:55:54] Voice 2: essentially yes there is um i would say on the trust area services team the islands

[1:56:00] Voice 2: trust conservancy has that middle manager but the other functions are also lacking a little bit but

[1:56:05] Voice 2: um uh i wouldn't be best placed to speak to that but certainly yes that's the case

[1:56:11] Trustee Bernardo: and uh

[1:56:15] Trustee Bernardo: you know this organization has a budget of close to 10 million dollars a year

[1:56:18] Trustee Bernardo: Sure. I'm going to ask a leading question, which is, how unusual is it for organizations that have

[1:56:28] Trustee Bernardo: a budget of almost $10 million a year to not have a controller?

[1:56:34] Voice 2: I would say fairly unusual.

[1:56:36] Voice 2: That's anecdotal. I haven't done my homework, but from what I've seen in my days when I was

[1:56:41] Voice 2: in the corporate setting on the audit team visiting many corporations, it is fairly unusual.

[1:56:47] Voice 2: usual what's happening is that the director position is taking on all of those controllership

[1:56:53] Voice 2: type duties um as best as possible in the limited hours um and you know there's it's just not

[1:57:00] Voice 2: sustainable in

[1:57:03] Trustee Bernardo: this outfit we seem to be pretty fond of the term best practices

[1:57:08] Trustee Bernardo: uh would you say that the way administrative services is currently managed which is to say

[1:57:16] Trustee Bernardo: without any middle management does that conform to best practices for this type of work uh as it

[1:57:23] Voice 2: relates to the finance team i would say no uh you know one of the key things about public sector

[1:57:29] Voice 2: organizations is we are managing public money so there is you know we're

[1:57:35] Trustee Bernardo: getting a certain amount

[1:57:35] Trustee Bernardo: of feedback here there's a kind of an echo is

[1:57:39] Voice 2: that better no

[1:57:40] Trustee Bernardo: it's the same i

[1:57:43] Voice 4: may have to dial in

[1:57:45] Trustee Bernardo: Maybe just turn the volume down. I don't know.

[1:57:50] Voice 2: Okay.

[1:57:50] Voice 4: Let me grab one thing here.

[1:57:52] Voice 2: I'll grab my headphones. Maybe we can go to questions while I do that.

[1:57:56] Trustee Bernardo: Sure. Trustee Bowman.

[1:58:00] Voice 6: I just have a couple of comments to make. I'm kind of thinking about it the same as you do, that it's a very important position.

[1:58:07] Voice 6: In my corporate setting, there would have been risks to the business assessed.

[1:58:12] Voice 6: And to me, this huge gap and the lack of middle management and backup for the director is what I would call a business continuity risk.

[1:58:24] Voice 6: And I'd also think just in general, the finance is such a critical part of managing your finance well, has external implications as well as internal implications.

[1:58:39] Voice 6: So it presents a huge risk to the business if there aren't enough resources to do it.

[1:58:46] Voice 6: I would have to say that, Julia, when I read this, I was so impressed by your ability to deliver this enormous scope so well.

[1:58:57] Voice 6: And to some degree, you're a victim of your own success.

[1:59:00] Voice 6: you've you kind of managed to hide this and we rely on you to be responsive and provide you know

[1:59:09] Voice 6: in the brief time that i've i've had interactions with you and your ability to deliver is is amazing

[1:59:15] Voice 6: considering this um situation you're in so thank you yes

[1:59:23] Trustee Bernardo: i think that should go into your performance

[1:59:24] Trustee Bernardo: review uh next year that you're to be criticized for doing too good a job and thereby concealing

[1:59:29] Trustee Bernardo: from us how messed up things are trustee evans thank

[1:59:36] Voice 7: you i just had a question to uh staff mobs

[1:59:40] Voice 7: is it possible for this particular year to promote from within someone up to controller

[1:59:48] Voice 7: is there somebody currently on staff that could be promoted rather than hiring in a new person

[1:59:53] Voice 7: and then next year backfill that position i'm just trying to think a little bit creatively on how

[1:59:59] Voice 7: out

[2:00:00] Voice 7: to maybe minimize the initial impact of this new position.

[2:00:06] Voice 2: So I'm just going to check my audio is better.

[2:00:09] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, it's good.

[2:00:10] Voice 2: Okay.

[2:00:11] Voice 2: So when you're talking about this year,

[2:00:13] Voice 2: are you talking about next year's budget

[2:00:16] Voice 2: or are you talking about the current year

[2:00:17] Voice 2: that we're in the remaining months?

[2:00:19] Voice 2: The current budget that we're working on right now.

[2:00:22] Voice 2: Okay,

[2:00:23] Voice 7: so next fiscal

[2:00:24] Voice 2: year.

[2:00:26] Voice 2: So one of the job description that's included

[2:00:30] Voice 2: in the agenda package. It's a draft job description. It's still under review with

[2:00:36] Voice 2: classifications. What's included in there, which is of importance, is education and experience.

[2:00:43] Voice 2: One of the primary areas of education that is in the draft job description is a CPA designation,

[2:00:51] Voice 2: so some sort of formal accounting background. So in order to have an existing staff member or any

[2:00:57] Voice 2: person slot into that role they would be required to have that education and experience currently

[2:01:03] Voice 2: i'm the only person on the finance team that has that that education i would say you know there's

[2:01:11] Voice 2: opportunity for specific tasks um to be delegated but the role in and of itself

[2:01:16] Voice 2: a lot of what that role does is actually oversee the work of of the other staff members so it's a

[2:01:23] Voice 2: a challenging space. Okay, thank you.

[2:01:25] Trustee Bernardo: And I assume the CPA designation is required because

[2:01:29] Trustee Bernardo: in that oversight role of managing that type of, you know, day-to-day work,

[2:01:36] Trustee Bernardo: the person needs to have the training and expertise in accounting. That's right. Yeah.

[2:01:46] Trustee Bernardo: And at this time, at this juncture, the reason you end up doing it all is you're the only person

[2:01:50] Trustee Bernardo: who's got that designation so i'm guessing if you had somebody on staff who had a cpa designation

[2:01:58] Trustee Bernardo: they would have had this job a long time ago already all right now uh director mobs uh we

[2:02:08] Trustee Bernardo: were asking some questions when we had the sound issue and then uh i see trustee evans has a

[2:02:12] Trustee Bernardo: question uh go ahead please sorry

[2:02:14] Voice 7: it was just a follow-up to my previous question is there anybody

[2:02:18] Voice 7: currently on staff that is looking to get that designation that could potentially move into the

[2:02:23] Voice 7: role?

[2:02:26] Voice 2: There is no one currently on staff working towards that. I will identify also, you know, I

[2:02:33] Voice 2: think the primary reason for your line of questioning here was to alleviate some of the

[2:02:39] Voice 2: challenges in next year's budget. But what the business case is highlighting is that all of this

[2:02:45] Voice 2: work is required. So if we moved an existing staff person into this position, we would just have a

[2:02:52] Voice 2: gap in a different space. So we would still have to fill the newly created vacancy of work. All of

[2:02:59] Voice 2: those tasks are still required. So the way that we get this position filled, I'm not sure will

[2:03:07] Voice 2: actually alleviate budget pressures because we do need all the positions. All

[2:03:14] Trustee Bernardo: right. Thank you for

[2:03:14] Trustee Bernardo: that. And could you not continue with the remaining part of reviewing the business case?

[2:03:20] Voice 2: Sure, I'll have to remember where I was now.

[2:03:24] Voice 2: I think we were looking at the structure of the finance team in and of itself, and then also how it compares to the structure of other teams.

[2:03:33] Voice 2: And so highlighted in the business case, again, is the structure of the planning team.

[2:03:38] Voice 2: And we see that there's much more sort of middle management positions, as Chair Bernardo referred to it, which is a good way to refer to it.

[2:03:45] Voice 2: um and so that's a sort of a more appropriate um resourcing of a team i think that speaks to

[2:03:52] Voice 2: you know we have prioritized planning or previous trust councils have prioritized planning it's an

[2:03:58] Voice 2: important undertaking uh finance is also a very important undertaking at any organization if you

[2:04:04] Voice 2: want to be um have a sound finance team and be making decisions that are based on good information

[2:04:10] Voice 2: information, um, then, you know, a properly resourced finance team, uh, definitely does go

[2:04:16] Voice 2: a long way. Uh, so one of the other, or some of the benefits of a properly resourcing the finance

[2:04:22] Voice 2: team, uh, would be of course, reducing the risk of staff burnout, which is a definite risk. Uh,

[2:04:29] Voice 2: it also increases internal control management within the organization. So it makes sure that

[2:04:34] Voice 2: we actually have proper processes in place such that we do have accurate information

[2:04:38] Voice 2: we're safeguarding our assets we can properly support the desired work of trustees I do get

[2:04:44] Voice 2: a sense there's a desire for change on this council change does take time it does take resources

[2:04:49] Voice 2: and I do think there's going to be a financial component to that or a financial skill set

[2:04:54] Voice 2: that probably would assist in achieving some of that change and so we would need

[2:04:59] Voice 2: staff resources to do that there's also currently with workload challenges other staff in the

[2:05:06] Voice 2: organization do experience delays. So the finance team serves internally. We serve the other

[2:05:14] Voice 2: departments of the organization as well as serving trustees. If there's workload struggles within the

[2:05:19] Voice 2: finance team, there can be delays in responding to other members of the organization, which then

[2:05:24] Voice 2: means that they are limited in their ability to achieve their own work. And so properly resourcing

[2:05:30] Voice 2: the finance team would alleviate that. There would be more time to put towards some of the more

[2:05:35] Voice 2: more strategic work from a financial perspective.

[2:05:38] Voice 2: So the governance review particularly highlighted

[2:05:41] Voice 2: need to look more at long-term financial planning

[2:05:43] Voice 2: and tying that into the strategic plan.

[2:05:45] Voice 2: Those types of projects will move forward more readily

[2:05:48] Voice 2: if the director has the time

[2:05:50] Voice 2: to put towards those types of things.

[2:05:53] Voice 2: And again, we've mentioned, you know,

[2:05:54] Voice 2: there is significant risk to an organization

[2:05:56] Voice 2: if there isn't proper resourcing on a finance team.

[2:06:00] Voice 2: You know, there's, I think,

[2:06:01] Voice 2: Trustee Boland referred to it as a business risk

[2:06:04] Voice 2: risk and a business continuity risk, which is certainly true. If this sort of work is not

[2:06:10] Voice 2: properly resourced, you can run into all sorts of challenges, not, you know, basic challenges

[2:06:17] Voice 2: of achieving day-to-day work, challenges with making good, sound decision-making based on

[2:06:21] Voice 2: financial information, and also challenges with even achieving what's required of us under

[2:06:25] Voice 2: legislation.

[2:06:26] Trustee Bernardo: Can I ask, to what extent is it possible to say that filling this position would

[2:06:31] Trustee Bernardo: would be in any sense complimentary

[2:06:34] Trustee Bernardo: to the planning function.

[2:06:35] Trustee Bernardo: And as you were reviewing just immediately

[2:06:38] Trustee Bernardo: these past items that you were talking about,

[2:06:40] Trustee Bernardo: the thought that occurred to me was that

[2:06:46] Trustee Bernardo: some of the business on the planning function

[2:06:51] Trustee Bernardo: and on the project function,

[2:06:53] Trustee Bernardo: in terms of developing business cases

[2:06:55] Trustee Bernardo: and benchmarks for projects,

[2:06:59] Trustee Bernardo: some of the business cases I've looked at

[2:07:01] Trustee Bernardo: that aren't particularly detailed in that respect.

[2:07:04] Trustee Bernardo: And that hearkens back to one of the comments

[2:07:08] Trustee Bernardo: that Trustee Evans made at the outset,

[2:07:10] Trustee Bernardo: the need for benchmarks and that sort of thing.

[2:07:13] Trustee Bernardo: To what extent would, if at all,

[2:07:16] Trustee Bernardo: would filling this position help beef up

[2:07:19] Trustee Bernardo: that planning function or would it not make a difference?

[2:07:24] Voice 2: I think there's definitely opportunity

[2:07:26] Voice 2: for the director position to help bolster

[2:07:31] Voice 2: some of the work in planning. So when there's a desire to, you know, put together templates or

[2:07:36] Voice 2: amend processes, I think there's definitely an opportunity for my role to weigh into those

[2:07:44] Voice 2: discussions and help with those sorts of things. Currently, there's no capacity for business cases

[2:07:50] Voice 2: to be reviewed by myself before they move forward. If I have capacity created, I might be able to do

[2:07:57] Voice 2: that specifically you know provide feedback in in some areas that could help planning staff

[2:08:03] Voice 2: better present or all staff you know better present business cases I think there's opportunity

[2:08:10] Voice 2: it might be limited as of course I don't have experience in the planning function itself as

[2:08:14] Voice 2: far as understanding how planning works but as far as processes and analysis I could weigh into that

[2:08:20] Voice 2: thank you

[2:08:21] Trustee Bernardo: carry on with your review so

[2:08:27] Voice 2: there are a number of alternatives that were considered

[2:08:29] Voice 2: in the business case um i'm not a particular fan of most of the alternatives that are presented

[2:08:38] Voice 2: um you know there's the option to do nothing we've identified what the risks are associated

[2:08:43] Voice 2: with that uh there is an opportunity to hire a person on a part-time basis um what you run into

[2:08:50] Voice 2: in this situation is usually a lower pool of candidates that apply for a position so we may

[2:08:55] Voice 2: not have somebody who actually meets the criteria for the position itself apply and also as we've

[2:09:00] Voice 2: identified there's a need for a full-time position and so the benefits would be significantly reduced

[2:09:05] Voice 2: with part-time we have in the past tried to address the workload concerns by hiring external

[2:09:11] Voice 2: contractors we did actually hire a third party headhunter to find some people to do this work

[2:09:17] Voice 2: for us and we were not successful the contractor ended up doing very minimal work on the contract

[2:09:22] Voice 2: and then chose to leave uh that's partially due to the fact that we're pretty unique

[2:09:26] Voice 2: um we're not you know our systems are unique um you know we've got policies that aren't always

[2:09:32] Voice 2: standard in other industries or other organizations um and so it's not always easy work for contractors

[2:09:39] Voice 2: to take on and therefore takes more time and so a contractor can earn more money going elsewhere

[2:09:43] Voice 2: working on things that will take less time and so we've not been successful with that approach

[2:09:50] Voice 2: approach. I don't know if there's too much more I need to speak on in the rest of the business

[2:09:55] Voice 2: case. I think we've actually touched on most of the content just as a result of the questions

[2:10:00] Voice 2: that have come forward. Just as far as implementation, the job description has already

[2:10:07] Voice 2: been drafted. I've already sent it into the public service agency for their review of classification.

[2:10:12] Voice 2: And so that means that we can move forward pretty quickly if there is approval for this position.

[2:10:16] Voice 2: and so the hope would be that we would have somebody hired and in the seat one month into

[2:10:21] Voice 2: the fiscal year so the budget that's reflected is 11 months of salary and benefits plus the

[2:10:26] Voice 2: required equipment and training i'm happy to take further questions if there is any do the

[2:10:35] Trustee Bernardo: trustees have any further questions for director mobs

[2:10:37] Voice 4: with respect to this business case thank you

[2:10:44] Voice 4: director

[2:10:44] Trustee Bernardo: mobs it appears that we've gone through it in sufficient detail for the committee thank

[2:10:50] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you for that.

[2:10:53] Trustee Bernardo: I see that it is just a little after 1215 at this point.

[2:10:58] Trustee Bernardo: And before we proceed to the next agenda item,

[2:11:03] Trustee Bernardo: which is not reflected on the printed agenda,

[2:11:05] Trustee Bernardo: but which is a consideration of trustee Bowen's

[2:11:12] Trustee Bernardo: proposed revisions to the budget

[2:11:15] Trustee Bernardo: that everybody wanted to have a chance to look at.

[2:11:17] Trustee Bernardo: I would suggest we break for lunch

[2:11:19] Trustee Bernardo: and people take that opportunity to review the revisions and then after lunch we immediately

[2:11:27] Trustee Bernardo: engage Trustee Boland's revisions. I see Trustee Boland has her hand up. Go ahead.

[2:11:33] Voice 6: I did send it to Robert and asked him to forward it to the committee. I'm just wondering if that

[2:11:40] Voice 6: actually happened or not. Robert, could you answer that please? Thank you.

[2:11:46] Trustee Bernardo: Go ahead.

[2:11:48] Voice 1: Through the chair, yes, I have sent it to FPC by email.

[2:11:54] Trustee Bernardo: All right.

[2:11:54] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[2:11:56] Trustee Bernardo: I

[2:11:56] Voice 6: have one other question

[2:11:57] Voice 6: with respect to the business case that Julia just made.

[2:12:01] Voice 6: So that's in the proposed budget right now.

[2:12:05] Voice 6: But do we actually have, because it's a new item and it doesn't have to happen right now,

[2:12:10] Voice 6: do we have to later circle back and make a motion about this?

[2:12:20] Voice 4: I can respond to that.

[2:12:21] Voice 4: Go ahead, Director Mott.

[2:12:23] Voice 2: uh the the hundred thousand dollars for this position is included in the draft budget that's

[2:12:29] Voice 2: sitting with fpc today if there was no desire for the committee to fund this position a motion would

[2:12:35] Voice 2: be required to remove it from the budget um otherwise it would just stay in there um until

[2:12:40] Voice 2: direction otherwise so

[2:12:43] Trustee Bernardo: the budget is or sorry the position is in the budget that's before the

[2:12:47] Trustee Bernardo: committee for its approval uh today and whether it proceeds or not is subject to i guess the later

[2:12:53] Trustee Bernardo: discussion we have when we go through the balancing exercise that's

[2:12:59] Voice 2: correct thank

[2:13:00] Trustee Bernardo: you uh so

[2:13:01] Trustee Bernardo: i'm going to suggest that um we've got a lot to do here and we're scheduled to run until three o'clock

[2:13:06] Trustee Bernardo: and um ideally we'll in fact meet that set schedule people have got actual lives to live here

[2:13:13] Trustee Bernardo: uh i'm going to suggest we return back at one o'clock sharp uh after lunch people have had

[2:13:19] Trustee Bernardo: have their opportunity to have reviewed the material

[2:13:21] Trustee Bernardo: and then we can go from there.

[2:13:24] Trustee Bernardo: Unless anybody has any objections,

[2:13:26] Trustee Bernardo: I intend to adjourn until that time.

[2:13:30] Trustee Bernardo: All right, seeing no objections,

[2:13:32] Trustee Bernardo: I guess this is what Trustee Peterson would call

[2:13:34] Trustee Bernardo: a matter of general consent.

[2:13:38] Trustee Bernardo: So we'll see you all at one o'clock.

[2:13:40] Trustee Bernardo: We're adjourned until then, thank you.

[2:13:42] Voice 4: Well, we're recessed.

[2:13:45] Voice 4: Recessed.

[2:51:21] Voice 4: to see

[2:51:21] Voice 6: you made it uh trustee graham and no response required i see you're finishing your

[2:51:28] Voice 6: lunch so big

[2:51:31] Voice 14: thanks to bc hydro yay

[2:51:32] Voice 6: yeah they do a pretty good job don't they

[2:51:35] Voice 14: amazing yeah

[2:51:37] Voice 4: hello everybody it looks like it's uh one o'clock and

[2:52:56] Voice 17: uh we will

[2:52:58] Trustee Bernardo: now resume the meeting of the

[2:52:59] Trustee Bernardo: financial planning committee where we left things last time was at uh we had completed the review

[2:53:07] Trustee Bernardo: with director mobs of the changes to the budget since the last time and we're about to enter into

[2:53:15] Trustee Bernardo: a discussion in a sense led by may read who's going to talk about some revisions that she's

[2:53:21] Trustee Bernardo: proposing to the budget and uh while she's doing that i'm going to ask director mobs

[2:53:27] Trustee Bernardo: no disrespect intended to may read but i'm going to ask director mobs to uh

[2:53:32] Trustee Bernardo: while May Reed is doing her bit to quietly go through the numbers that May Reed has come up

[2:53:40] Trustee Bernardo: with to confirm they actually do add up in the way May Reed says they add up. So we'll leave that to

[2:53:46] Trustee Bernardo: Julia while May Reed goes to the next thing and provides this review. So over to you, May Reed,

[2:53:53] Trustee Bernardo: to review these revisions that you've proposed.

[2:53:57] Voice 6: Thanks. I'd appreciate that because

[2:54:01] Voice 6: it has taken me quite some time. I mean, I printed out the entire budget agenda and then

[2:54:08] Voice 6: went through it line by line. I'm not going to go through it line by line initially. I've got

[2:54:13] Voice 6: a short introduction to make the case for what I've proposed. So I'll go through that.

[2:54:22] Voice 6: And I'd rather have a motion prepared, as you saw, but I'd rather have an open discussion

[2:54:28] Voice 6: session before that's put before us. So the background. First, I'd like to acknowledge

[2:54:36] Voice 6: the refinements achieved so far by staff and trustees working together. And then I'd like

[2:54:44] Voice 6: to move to the fact the financial outlook for people in our communities is challenging.

[2:54:49] Voice 6: We need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves if this is a time to increase the financial burden

[2:54:56] Voice 6: on anyone living in the islands.

[2:54:59] Voice 6: In fact, we should be looking to reduce

[2:55:01] Voice 6: the financial burden, arguably.

[2:55:06] Voice 6: Unavoidable salary increases contribute significantly

[2:55:10] Voice 6: to the budget increase.

[2:55:13] Voice 6: A slowdown or pause represents an opportunity

[2:55:17] Voice 6: to spend time taking stock, to plan,

[2:55:21] Voice 6: and to reflect on and complete outstanding actions.

[2:55:26] Voice 6: Julia will confirm that a draw on the general revenue surplus fund may be initiated during the year for anything re-evaluated and deemed essential, i.e. anything that's removed right now, if it was re-evaluated and prioritised or set to a high priority, funding could be sought from the general surplus fund.

[2:55:50] Voice 6: In the current financial climate, we should aim to curtail our activities and to use our own resources, 64 staff and 24 trustees.

[2:56:06] Voice 6: The Islands Trust can find it challenging to provide adequate resources to complete projects and activities in a timely manner.

[2:56:15] Voice 6: Staff hours released by the suspension of some of these activities may be used to alleviate this.

[2:56:23] Voice 6: activities suspended or not time critical and could be restarted and to be honest it was also

[2:56:32] Voice 6: extremely difficult to make any attempt at prioritizing competing expenditures

[2:56:42] Voice 6: so now i move to the the process and the approach each line item of discretionary expenditure was

[2:56:50] Voice 6: reviewed obviously operating expenses salaries insurance etc were excluded business cases where

[2:56:58] Voice 6: they existed were carefully considered and when i considered the business cases are you waiting

[2:57:06] Trustee Elliott: for anyone else

[2:57:07] Voice 6: or oh

[2:57:08] Trustee Elliott: i

[2:57:11] Voice 4: don't believe so chair

[2:57:12] Trustee Elliott: bernardo can't hear you maybe

[2:57:13] Voice 4: it's me uh it's you

[2:57:21] Voice 4: should i care just

[2:57:23] Trustee Bernardo: a moment trustee boland uh we seem to be having a technical problem with trustee

[2:57:27] Trustee Bernardo: Elliot trustee Elliot can you hear what I'm saying now

[2:57:30] Trustee Elliott: I can thank you yes oh

[2:57:33] Trustee Bernardo: okay uh trustee Boland

[2:57:35] Trustee Bernardo: was uh in the middle of her presentation so

[2:57:39] Voice 4: sorry no that's fine

[2:57:40] Trustee Bernardo: uh this is the kind of thing that

[2:57:42] Trustee Bernardo: happens with um

[2:57:43] Voice 6: with

[2:57:45] Trustee Bernardo: zoom uh please carry on uh trustee Boland

[2:57:47] Voice 6: sure and uh Toby if you missed

[2:57:50] Voice 6: what I was saying I can send it to you in an email it's just a short kind of justification

[2:57:55] Voice 6: my rationale and approach so i just moved on there to the process and approach i had covered

[2:58:03] Voice 6: the reasons that i believed that we need to do this so the process was each line item of

[2:58:10] Voice 6: discretionary expenditure was reviewed operating expenses such as salaries and insurance etc

[2:58:16] Voice 6: obviously were excluded from that business cases where they existed were carefully considered and

[2:58:22] Voice 6: And I especially looked at the estimated staff hours associated with those activities, because this is the first time that those have been available to us in the business cases.

[2:58:33] Voice 6: This is a real, you know, a great improvement and really helps with transparency.

[2:58:39] Voice 6: A view was taken that projects and activities should be executed by internal resources.

[2:58:46] Voice 6: Of course, any constraints resulting from this may be raised so that priorities are appropriate.

[2:58:54] Voice 6: So the net result is that the budget savings relative to the FPC agenda would be total 421,000 and 2,225 staff hours, which is approximately two FTEs, I believe, split by funding resource.

[2:59:19] Voice 6: resource because of course whether it's surplus funded or tax this funded and makes a difference

[2:59:24] Voice 6: so the surplus savings 190 000 and 1940 staff hours and don't forget that we're 100 000 over

[2:59:34] Voice 6: our required surplus limit at the moment the taxes savings would be 231 000 approximately

[2:59:44] Voice 6: approximately and that's 280 staff hours estimated uh based on uh the advice from

[2:59:54] Voice 6: Julia from some time ago that one percent tax increase is equivalent to about

[3:00:00] Voice 6: 75,000. This 231,000 decrease in tax draw would be equivalent to 3.1%, which covers our 2.75%

[3:00:14] Voice 6: current estimated tax increase requirement. Other small things that I thought I'd mention was,

[3:00:24] Voice 6: Don't forget, last year we had 300,000 extra in the budget for unusual expenses.

[3:00:31] Voice 6: So that's the election and the public consultation.

[3:00:35] Voice 6: So when we review where we are with respect to previous budgets, you know, certain things like that should be taken into account in my view.

[3:00:43] Voice 6: But anyway, the net result of my cogitations is that we could eliminate our surplus fund situation of being 100k in the red.

[3:01:00] Voice 6: We could wipe out the need to have any tax increase.

[3:01:05] Voice 6: We recover staff hours which could be used to spend some time contemplating planning and considering what to do next.

[3:01:16] Voice 6: We have some work to do with the Governance Committee and the governance review results.

[3:01:22] Voice 6: And the surplus funds can be drawn on through the year if any of the activities that are being suspended right now are deemed to be essential and put back on the table.

[3:01:38] Voice 6: So that's where I leave it at the moment.

[3:01:41] Voice 6: I mean, I can quickly go through this spreadsheet,

[3:01:48] Voice 6: which is just, sorry, column two

[3:01:50] Voice 6: is where I made some notes on the rationale.

[3:01:54] Voice 6: So, yeah, so I'll leave it at that.

[3:01:57] Voice 6: And I'll leave it to questions and or advice

[3:02:01] Voice 6: on what to do next, suggestions.

[3:02:04] Voice 6: Thank you.

[3:02:05] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Boland, given the volume of your suggestions here,

[3:02:12] Trustee Bernardo: I think you've done a clear enough job of explaining your general approach as to your reasoning as to why you're doing this.

[3:02:22] Trustee Bernardo: But I think it would be helpful if you could be, you know, I guess, you know, we are time limited.

[3:02:27] Trustee Bernardo: But if you could briefly go through the individual line items and explain your reasoning here, because my reading of it is there's a nuance here, which is you're not really.

[3:02:41] Trustee Bernardo: there's no judgment here as far as i can tell on the merits of these things

[3:02:46] Trustee Bernardo: you're not saying we should stop doing them because they're not worthwhile

[3:02:50] Trustee Bernardo: i understand you to be saying we ought to suspend things pending um getting our financial house in

[3:02:57] Trustee Bernardo: order at least this year that's how i read it but it might be helpful if you could quickly go

[3:03:01] Trustee Bernardo: through these line items and explain your thinking thank you sure

[3:03:06] Voice 6: i'd be glad to do that

[3:03:07] Voice 6: And should we take a question from Trustee Evans before

[3:03:12] Trustee Bernardo: I do that?

[3:03:13] Trustee Bernardo: I see the questions there, but I'm going to suggest that what we do is quickly go through this.

[3:03:18] Trustee Bernardo: And then after that, we can start the process of entertaining questions.

[3:03:23] Trustee Bernardo: I expect that Trustee Evans will only be the first of many.

[3:03:27] Voice 6: Sure. OK, thanks.

[3:03:29] Voice 6: Thanks. So just the layout, as you may have realised, is there's the page in the FPC agenda of January.

[3:03:38] Voice 6: Again, it's a little bit challenging because the pages change from one agenda to another.

[3:03:42] Voice 6: So you have to start fresh with each one. And so line item number one, Reconciliation Action Plan implementation.

[3:03:51] Voice 6: Implementation. There is no implementation plan right now, but there is a vacancy and that vacancy hasn't been filled.

[3:04:00] Voice 6: So my argument would be pause this until that person is hired, is on seat and has the time to reflect on what's required.

[3:04:11] Voice 6: The second one is the history and heritage funding grant and aid.

[3:04:16] Voice 6: Again, this is not an essential thing which we have to do to further the land use regulation,

[3:04:27] Voice 6: which is arguably our core business.

[3:04:31] Voice 6: And there are 100 staff hours associated with administering it.

[3:04:36] Voice 6: So my argument would be suspend it and use the staff hours elsewhere.

[3:04:42] Voice 6: were further action to be determined by the trustee is the comment on the next one the policy

[3:04:47] Voice 6: statement amendment project has had a lot of investment and a lot of commitment um and a lot

[3:04:54] Voice 6: of external resources public engagement etc etc i think you know the next step should be that

[3:05:02] Voice 6: trustees themselves sit down and consider what to do so again that would release 50 hours of

[3:05:11] Voice 6: Sorry. Well, in the actual proposal, the full-time senior policy advisor is fully assigned to that project and that position is not filled yet, which is another argument in favour of suspending that and recovering the funds for the moment, at least.

[3:05:32] Voice 6: The stewardship education programme again suspended. There is difficulty, I believe, having a permanent communications person on staff in that there is a position, but there seems to be some administration around the fact that that person is on a transfer.

[3:05:55] Voice 6: So stabilizing that position would be important to this.

[3:06:02] Voice 6: And there are materials already available and perhaps they could be distributed digitally.

[3:06:10] Voice 6: And again, you recover 50 hours of programme coordinator. Suspend and, you know, wait and see.

[3:06:19] Voice 6: uh the next one secretary of services um this was a resource to assist some organizations

[3:06:30] Voice 6: throughout the trust area uh we struggle as the it ourselves to um for resources to manage meetings

[3:06:43] Voice 6: and for general administration.

[3:06:46] Voice 6: Again, I would say pause this until the financial situation

[3:06:51] Voice 6: and our plans become more clear.

[3:06:54] Voice 6: And again, we recover 100 hours of programme coordination,

[3:06:59] Voice 6: which could be useful within the organisation.

[3:07:06] Voice 6: The business case for freshwater communications portal,

[3:07:10] Voice 6: we considered it yesterday at the regional planning meeting.

[3:07:14] Voice 6: This is 50,000, which belongs to regional planning, and there is a business case to use that 50,000.

[3:07:25] Voice 6: And I believe that regional planning are, you know, beginning their plans and don't have a clear view on what money and what resources they need.

[3:07:43] Voice 6: uh yesterday there was extensive discussion about this uh so again recover the money and recover

[3:07:51] Voice 6: an estimated 0.5 fte which is over 500 staff hours and the funding for the governance review

[3:08:01] Voice 6: was sort of a little bookmark put in there and that was fine but there's no specific plan to use

[3:08:08] Voice 6: use that and if you know they need resources again they can make a case for it if they need

[3:08:16] Voice 6: legal experts or advice there is a legal fund which they can use for that and so we recover

[3:08:25] Voice 6: 15,040 hours of staff resources so that covers the draw from the surplus and I would remind you

[3:08:34] Voice 6: again that the surplus fund is 100 000 oversubscribed at the moment so um robert could

[3:08:41] Voice 6: you scroll down please thank you so now we move into the um pink purple area which is the direct

[3:08:50] Voice 6: tax taxes funded um activities so there are two positions here one after the other and again

[3:09:00] Voice 6: you know, I think Joe spoke correctly. These are not about value judgments. This is about

[3:09:07] Voice 6: an attempt to reduce the budget. So those two, I would say, these should not be established as

[3:09:20] Voice 6: new positions until the redeployment of the resources recovered from suspended activities

[3:09:27] Voice 6: activities can be examined. At least. Then we move down to page number 123. So that's

[3:09:36] Voice 6: the third line item down in pink. This is a tricky one because it's about adjusting

[3:09:44] Voice 6: salaries for six staff. However, in the current financial situation, I would challenge supporting

[3:09:55] Voice 6: Although when I read in the business case, I wasn't quite sure the degree to which it had been discussed with the staff who were affected.

[3:10:04] Voice 6: The next item down is to do with, there are two line items, two co-op students.

[3:10:14] Voice 6: They generally come for about four months each and it's 20,000 or 22,000 for them.

[3:10:22] Voice 6: but in addition and I would argue that it probably happens on both of those instances

[3:10:30] Voice 6: there is some time required from staff to train them in my experience co-op students they do

[3:10:37] Voice 6: deliver it but you don't get a full hundred you know twenty two thousand dollars worth of value

[3:10:43] Voice 6: from it because you do have to invest a lot of staff time and then those are not permanent

[3:10:51] Voice 6: appointment appointments in the organization so and then the last so and and also i think it

[3:11:00] Voice 6: helps us to focus on using existing staff resources and really um looking internally

[3:11:08] Voice 6: and prioritizing and you know well anyway i'll talk to benefits shortly so could you scroll

[3:11:16] Voice 6: Go further, please, Robert, just to the very bottom.

[3:11:21] Voice 6: So, again, this is a summary.

[3:11:22] Voice 6: The total savings, 421, give or take, thousand in dollars, 2,225 staff hours.

[3:11:33] Voice 6: And those are my estimates from the business cases.

[3:11:38] Voice 6: Those are a bit of a black art, as somebody said yesterday.

[3:11:42] Voice 6: But, yes, we have to work with what we've got.

[3:11:44] Voice 6: That splits out, as you can see, into the savings from surplus of £190,000 and £1940 staff hours, taxes £230,743, £231,000 and £285 staff hours.

[3:12:07] Voice 6: And that last line item, the taxes saving line, is equivalent to a 3.1%, I believe, reduction.

[3:12:17] Voice 6: So that covers the proposed 2.75% increase.

[3:12:24] Voice 6: And, of course, the surplus savings takes care of the fact that we were 100,000 in the red.

[3:12:30] Voice 6: And I'd like to say that in addition to that, you know, we struggle with all these conflicting activities and we don't have time to really sit down and consider things as well as we possibly should.

[3:12:48] Voice 6: And this is an opportunity to just pause, take some time and circle back on some of these activities.

[3:12:56] Voice 6: activities. So I think I'll leave it at that. I'm sure I could keep going for another 20 minutes,

[3:13:03] Voice 6: but you don't want that. So I'll leave it at that and stop here. Thank you.

[3:13:09] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you, May Reid. So basically, your point is, these various areas you've identified,

[3:13:18] Trustee Bernardo: your position is we ought to suspend funding pending a more sophisticated and in-depth

[3:13:22] Trustee Bernardo: strategic examination of what we're doing and how it relates to the mandate. And the rationale for

[3:13:30] Trustee Bernardo: that is we're trying to cope with a real revenue shortfall that looks structural with these wage

[3:13:35] Trustee Bernardo: increases. And you're saying that will bring us into compliance with the surplus policy

[3:13:40] Trustee Bernardo: and it will eliminate any need for any type of tax increase. So that's the basic take-home

[3:13:46] Trustee Bernardo: message of this. And now we have the questions. Over to you, Trustee Evans, who has been

[3:13:51] Trustee Bernardo: and patiently waiting.

[3:13:53] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[3:13:54] Voice 7: Thank you.

[3:13:55] Voice 7: I just wanted to speak to some of the line items

[3:13:57] Voice 7: that our committee is responsible for

[3:14:02] Voice 7: and also then a couple of the items

[3:14:05] Voice 7: that are in the pinky purple color.

[3:14:09] Voice 7: To talk to the Secretariat Services,

[3:14:13] Voice 7: I would ask Claire Freighter regarding the need for this

[3:14:21] Voice 7: because I believe that this is this is fairly integral to running the program but it's a small

[3:14:27] Voice 7: amount and if it is absolutely needed then that can come from surplus so I'm not I'm not going

[3:14:33] Voice 7: to argue that line item at this point let me just see where we're going the policy statement

[3:14:39] Voice 7: amendment project the 50,000 again I believe that there are some there's going to be some

[3:14:46] Voice 7: some discussion on exactly how we can proceed

[3:14:51] Voice 7: without spending much money this year.

[3:14:54] Voice 7: So again, I would be in agreeance

[3:14:57] Voice 7: with suspending this line item as well.

[3:15:02] Voice 7: We're going to be having another meeting next month

[3:15:05] Voice 7: and have further discussions.

[3:15:07] Voice 7: And should something come out of that

[3:15:09] Voice 7: that is absolutely integral to running the programs,

[3:15:11] Voice 7: then we can bring that forward to trust council

[3:15:13] Voice 7: and look for some release of funds.

[3:15:19] Voice 7: I'm then just going to go down to the co-op students I know when we were as a company

[3:15:29] Voice 7: when we were doing well we would have co-op students come in when we had lean years we would

[3:15:34] Voice 7: not the return for dollars on the quality of work done by co-op students they normally pick up

[3:15:40] Voice 7: items that are mundane or repetitive that people don't want to do. So normally it's things that

[3:15:49] Voice 7: can be put off. They don't normally deal with anything that's urgent or absolutely necessary

[3:15:55] Voice 7: to run an effective business. So I think that's really good that the co-op students are

[3:16:02] Voice 7: are in here for suspension, potentially for the full year.

[3:16:09] Voice 7: And then as Maureen suggested,

[3:16:13] Voice 7: with the release of all of the hours,

[3:16:16] Voice 7: hopefully that can alleviate the requirement

[3:16:19] Voice 7: for some of these full-time positions.

[3:16:25] Voice 7: The other one that I wanted to ask about,

[3:16:27] Voice 7: and I don't know, I think it's the Administrative

[3:16:30] Voice 7: coordinator that was going to be coming to the islands to do the minute taking i think for this

[3:16:35] Voice 7: year if if we can agree that trustees can continue hiring local minute takers and we can learn how to

[3:16:43] Voice 7: set up the um the the the equipment to run the meetings perhaps we can we can deal with that for

[3:16:52] Voice 7: one more year um and then next year we can look at having this position filled or if we're absolutely

[3:16:58] Voice 7: incapable of dealing with the technology, then we can look at a solution mid-year.

[3:17:04] Voice 7: I'm in support of these, and I just wanted to voice those. Thank you for listening.

[3:17:12] Voice 4: Thank

[3:17:12] Trustee Bernardo: you, Trustee Evans. Trustee Patrick?

[3:17:16] Voice 4: No, thank you

[3:17:17] Trustee Patrick: very much. Lots to think about here. I think I'd prefer, instead of the concept

[3:17:24] Trustee Patrick: of a pause, I think what I would rather see

[3:17:27] Trustee Patrick: is a concept of focus.

[3:17:29] Trustee Patrick: And I thought I was hearing sort of a focus of governance,

[3:17:34] Trustee Patrick: get our governance in order,

[3:17:36] Trustee Patrick: and also focus on our core land use systems and processes

[3:17:40] Trustee Patrick: being what I was sort of hearing.

[3:17:42] Trustee Patrick: So like I said, to me,

[3:17:44] Trustee Patrick: that just sounds better than the word pause.

[3:17:48] Trustee Patrick: I have a lot of questions and that is

[3:17:50] Trustee Patrick: the reconciliation action plan,

[3:17:53] Trustee Patrick: And I'd probably, I'd need to know more details. There's a direct relationship between our, the work that we've been moving toward on reconciliation and our abilities to do land use planning.

[3:18:07] Trustee Patrick: I'll give you Saltspring, for example. We've had all of our recent work has been stopped because of our relationships with First Nations. It's stopped. And now you're looking at a community that has severe growth, probably contributing quite a bit to those non-market change dollars that are being there.

[3:18:30] Trustee Patrick: and we don't have the systems and processes in place to address the effects of where we are

[3:18:38] Trustee Patrick: with reconciliation and the impacts on planning. So I want to know more about the Reconciliation

[3:18:43] Trustee Patrick: Action Plan of how much of that work is directed toward filling these gaps in planning of where

[3:18:51] Trustee Patrick: we are today so that we can carry on with our basic planning needs in the islands.

[3:18:58] Trustee Patrick: The history and heritage and funding grant one, I could see a pause, perhaps, of a year, because I know we needed to build the processes.

[3:19:07] Trustee Patrick: Being on EC last term, we had to make those decisions of how to decide who gets the meager dollars that are here.

[3:19:15] Trustee Patrick: We had requests many times higher than this amount, and I know there was work to be done on building the processes and building that funding system

[3:19:23] Trustee Patrick: so that we had a fair and equitable process

[3:19:26] Trustee Patrick: that was transparent to those

[3:19:28] Trustee Patrick: that are putting time into applications.

[3:19:30] Trustee Patrick: So I could see delaying that

[3:19:32] Trustee Patrick: and allowing us to build those processes

[3:19:33] Trustee Patrick: if that is a funding stream that the Islands Trust

[3:19:36] Trustee Patrick: is gonna continue to do.

[3:19:39] Trustee Patrick: Policy statement, amended project.

[3:19:41] Trustee Patrick: Again, I'd look to Christine and your group

[3:19:45] Trustee Patrick: on your committee on the work that needs to be done.

[3:19:52] Trustee Patrick: There may be an inherent delay

[3:19:54] Trustee Patrick: because of the new trustees that are here

[3:19:56] Trustee Patrick: and the need to understand and build kind of where to next.

[3:20:05] Trustee Patrick: But there are elements of it that circle back

[3:20:08] Trustee Patrick: to the reconciliation action plan that may be in the way of us being,

[3:20:12] Trustee Patrick: or would not in the way,

[3:20:13] Trustee Patrick: but would facilitate the work we need to do from a land use.

[3:20:16] Trustee Patrick: So I think there's questions to be done there.

[3:20:20] Trustee Patrick: So is it zero?

[3:20:22] Trustee Patrick: I don't know that.

[3:20:27] Trustee Patrick: The stewardship education program, again, I could see a delay in a year is probably something to be considered and okay in the terms of where we are.

[3:20:38] Trustee Patrick: Although, again, the non-market change says we've got a whole bunch of new people that moved to our areas, but maybe they got captured.

[3:20:44] Trustee Patrick: I'm sure there's a delay in houses getting caught up with the assessment process that they're actually been built and moved into already.

[3:20:52] Trustee Patrick: Did they get stewardship information or not?

[3:20:56] Trustee Patrick: I have no idea and there's there is more that needs to be educated to new islanders than just

[3:21:02] Trustee Patrick: how to be good stewards it's the fact that we exist you know what our rules are and

[3:21:07] Trustee Patrick: and those things the secretariat services well I think it's low that money for high value

[3:21:15] Trustee Patrick: this is the in cooperation with part and I look at for us in the southern gulf islands it's the

[3:21:22] Trustee Patrick: southern gulf island forum we contribute to you know helping pay for that and get going that was

[3:21:28] Trustee Patrick: something that was created out of the pandemic and the value of the local uh all the local elected at

[3:21:35] Trustee Patrick: all levels including first nations being able to meet and move conversations and

[3:21:40] Trustee Patrick: i would say it helped us as an organization look supportive to the community and um and

[3:21:52] Trustee Patrick: work on with the partners that we have to work with so um like i said for fifteen thousand

[3:21:57] Trustee Patrick: dollars i think that's low money for high value um the regional planning committee the fifty

[3:22:04] Trustee Patrick: thousand dollars we did meet yesterday um and the consensus of the group was to ask that that money

[3:22:12] Trustee Patrick: remain for now it's early days we had one meeting yesterday with a you know like today a full

[3:22:20] Trustee Patrick: packed agenda. We only just began to have conversations. We're going to do more. We have

[3:22:26] Trustee Patrick: another meeting coming on February 1 to carry on the conversation of understanding what we want to

[3:22:33] Trustee Patrick: spend or what we think needs to be spent or recommended to be spent. I remind you that

[3:22:39] Trustee Patrick: Annex 1 of the governance report really is a regional planning committee activity. It says

[3:22:45] Trustee Patrick: we have a lot of work to do can we do that work with internal staff maybe we may need support so

[3:22:53] Trustee Patrick: yes it is a undedicated amount of money staff are doing more work there's part of that about half of

[3:23:02] Trustee Patrick: that money they are looking at for some sort of a portal for fresh water we requested quite a bit

[3:23:08] Trustee Patrick: bit more information from staff which we'll be evaluating in that February 1st meeting

[3:23:15] Trustee Patrick: and a governance committee I really don't have an opinion on the 15,000 if that's going to make

[3:23:21] Trustee Patrick: it make or break anything as regarding staffing I would say I'd like to look to ask that would

[3:23:28] Trustee Patrick: be questions I would have of staff is what are the impacts of not doing any of those positions

[3:23:36] Trustee Patrick: versus are there one that would give more benefit to us

[3:23:39] Trustee Patrick: or not?

[3:23:40] Trustee Patrick: So like I said, I'd have more questions to understand

[3:23:42] Trustee Patrick: from staff, the impacts of those.

[3:23:45] Trustee Patrick: And if we were to have to choose,

[3:23:48] Trustee Patrick: could there be a direction to say maybe one over or two

[3:23:53] Trustee Patrick: or at least the adjustments,

[3:23:56] Trustee Patrick: what one gave us the highest effect

[3:23:58] Trustee Patrick: to be able to do the land use planning that we need to do.

[3:24:03] Trustee Patrick: Co-op students,

[3:24:06] Trustee Patrick: I hear you I came out of private business too and yes in lean years we did cut those

[3:24:11] Trustee Patrick: but government was the one area where co-op positions were still available I look mostly

[3:24:19] Trustee Patrick: at the planning staff one as being the priority from my perspective because that does become

[3:24:24] Trustee Patrick: potential employees we have hired from the students that we've had in the past so I kind

[3:24:31] Trustee Patrick: of see that as students need to find jobs too and if the entire market dries up, I think government

[3:24:38] Trustee Patrick: does become the place that they look at for where they find jobs for co-op students. So that's my

[3:24:45] Trustee Patrick: thoughts at the moment and as far as the trust conservancy, I would look at other representation

[3:24:52] Trustee Patrick: as to who understands what's going on there.

[3:24:58] Voice 4: Thank you, Trustee Patrick. Trustee Luckum,

[3:25:05] Voice 4: audio please you'd think after all these years i'd know

[3:25:13] Trustee Luckham: how to do that but anyway um

[3:25:17] Trustee Luckham: thank you chair um thank you marie for all of this work and i'll acknowledge it's a bold attempt

[3:25:25] Trustee Luckham: at trying to reduce expenditures um and uh creative um however i i'm afraid i can't support

[3:25:36] Trustee Luckham: support most of the cuts that you're suggesting. And, you know, I'd like to maybe just say a couple

[3:25:45] Trustee Luckham: of things to begin with is, as opposed to talking about conflicting needs and requirements, I'd like

[3:25:54] Trustee Luckham: to talk about coordinating and collaborating activities as something that we can and should

[3:25:59] Trustee Luckham: and are doing within the Islanders Trust. I'd also like to say, with respect to the economic

[3:26:04] Trustee Luckham: economic climate, the Allen's Trust doesn't live and work in a vacuum. It's obvious to all of us

[3:26:13] Trustee Luckham: that just simply by the non-market changes that we're seeing, 8%, there's significant impacts

[3:26:22] Trustee Luckham: and influx of individuals and money and value in our communities. And so if our communities are

[3:26:29] Trustee Luckham: suffering in the current economic climate, there are clearly those that are not, or that may be

[3:26:37] Trustee Luckham: taking advantage of the economic situation to change their world and where they live and how

[3:26:44] Trustee Luckham: they operate and relocating on the Gulf Islands. So with respect to working in a vacuum, let's just

[3:26:52] Trustee Luckham: say there's an 8% inflation out there. And we're seeing, I think, a 6% increase in salaries at the

[3:27:00] Trustee Luckham: Islanders Trust. Those are not within our control. And so all of the goods and services that we use

[3:27:08] Trustee Luckham: and the people that we hire to do the work with us, those costs are going up. And consistently

[3:27:16] Trustee Luckham: Consistently, over the years, we always advance budgets that are less than what our internal costs have risen by.

[3:27:26] Trustee Luckham: And so what we end up doing over the years and through the proposals here is we do less.

[3:27:34] Trustee Luckham: And there isn't less to do in the Gulf Islands, especially with the most recent influx and impacts associated with new development.

[3:27:43] Trustee Luckham: But I'll just start off on more of a positive note, I suppose.

[3:27:47] Trustee Luckham: And just suggest there are a couple of three items here that I would suggest are reasonable to consider in hard times to not advancing and not to say that there wouldn't be their costs and their impacts, both in community and within the Islanders Trust.

[3:28:03] Trustee Luckham: And those that we might consider deleting or pausing, whatever, and I want to just talk about pausing for a moment, is the history and heritage fund granting, funding for the governance committee, and potentially the secretariat services.

[3:28:20] Trustee Luckham: Sure, in rich times, we might be able to advance those things.

[3:28:24] Trustee Luckham: In lean times, to use Trustee Evans' language, we might want to consider not advancing them.

[3:28:29] Trustee Luckham: But I've got to say that I think we need to understand the labor components of what happens at the Islands Trust, and that indeed there are positions that are being filled as we speak, particularly around the senior intergovernmental policy liaison person, that that position will be filled, and therefore that work will be needing to be done.

[3:29:02] Trustee Luckham: um the moving around we're in a budget cycle and what this means is is whatever work you want to do

[3:29:10] Trustee Luckham: you include it in the budget and you include a value associated with it to suggest that we might

[3:29:16] Trustee Luckham: pause or delay or halt things and not include them in the budget but then say well if we find out

[3:29:22] Trustee Luckham: that we need it we'll just pull it from surplus that i don't believe that that's how that works

[3:29:26] Trustee Luckham: It needs to be budgeted, and the surplus is a resource that we can allocate accordingly and, indeed, that we offset the budget by indicating that there'd be a certain amount of surplus used.

[3:29:38] Trustee Luckham: We're not just going to go through these items.

[3:29:41] Trustee Luckham: There is nothing that First Nations interests and our interests are not touched by at the Islanders Trust.

[3:29:52] Trustee Luckham: Everything we do is touched by it.

[3:29:54] Trustee Luckham: The reconciliation action plan implementation is a significant piece of work.

[3:30:00] Trustee Luckham: work that has been in progress for years and multiple terms. And to abandon it at this point

[3:30:09] Trustee Luckham: would not be received well by the First Nations that we've been working closely with. They,

[3:30:17] Trustee Luckham: in fact, see this as pivotal in local government work. And we need to continue that. So policy

[3:30:25] Trustee Luckham: The Policy Statement Amendment, again, is a significant piece of work that has had significant amount of energy and resources dedicated to it, and to consider that we would not proceed with that or pause it in some way and not fund it adequately to advance it at whatever scale is necessary to advance, to fulfill not only our First Nations commitment,

[3:30:47] Trustee Luckham: commitment, but including some of the items that were raised in the governance committee report and

[3:30:52] Trustee Luckham: the governance report that need to be fulfilled by completing the policy statement. We need to

[3:30:58] Trustee Luckham: continue on with that. Stewardship education, you know, it's interesting, $20,000, 50 hours of staff

[3:31:06] Trustee Luckham: time. Education has always been identified as one of the most important things we can do to

[3:31:12] Trustee Luckham: contribute to the preserve and protect mandate of the island trust because knowledgeable property

[3:31:18] Trustee Luckham: owners particularly new property owners coming in knowing about the values and the inherent

[3:31:24] Trustee Luckham: things that need to be protected here is critical so stewardship education it's inexpensive and

[3:31:30] Trustee Luckham: should be maintained in order to be able to keep that leading edge of uh of development and work

[3:31:35] Trustee Luckham: that's happening on the islands uh in um in balance with our need to preserve and protect

[3:31:43] Trustee Luckham: The bookmarking of the Regional Planning Committee work,

[3:31:48] Trustee Luckham: we talked about that at RPC the other day,

[3:31:51] Trustee Luckham: and indeed staff are coming back

[3:31:53] Trustee Luckham: with a more fleshed out proposal based upon what they heard.

[3:31:56] Trustee Luckham: But if we're going to stop all of the work associated

[3:31:59] Trustee Luckham: with Regional Planning Committee,

[3:32:00] Trustee Luckham: we're just going to get further and further behind.

[3:32:03] Trustee Luckham: And we're not going to pick it up halfway through the year.

[3:32:05] Trustee Luckham: If we're not budgeted for it,

[3:32:06] Trustee Luckham: it's not going to happen this term.

[3:32:07] Trustee Luckham: term. And then I can't really add any more than what Julia Mobs has already contributed to the

[3:32:16] Trustee Luckham: conversation about meeting administrators, administrative coordinator, planning services,

[3:32:21] Trustee Luckham: well, just about those two. Certainly, I can't add any more there. These are critical to the

[3:32:27] Trustee Luckham: operation of the Islands Trust, because not only are we doing less in terms of preserve and protect,

[3:32:33] Trustee Luckham: But we're also not keeping up with the work that's necessary to operate as a healthy organization. We're seeing impacts on our staff that are negative. And indeed, staff have moved on and some staff have had time off because some days it just gets to be too much for you is what I would offer.

[3:32:55] Trustee Luckham: offer. Planning services, admin adjustment, this is a really critical piece. And we're asking so

[3:33:00] Trustee Luckham: many people to do so many things outside of their job descriptions that it's unfair. And we need to

[3:33:07] Trustee Luckham: be a fair employer. And we need to seriously consider that. We had the freshwater co-op

[3:33:14] Trustee Luckham: students. I'm afraid I have also engaged co-op students a lot over the years. And it's not always

[3:33:21] Trustee Luckham: mundane work some of it is very exciting especially if you're a student and you're

[3:33:26] Trustee Luckham: working on your graduate degree and you're trying to do some get some research time and stuff it's

[3:33:31] Trustee Luckham: not mundane work i object to thinking of it in that way um and every single hour that one of

[3:33:39] Trustee Luckham: those co-op students does towards working on projects and work that's needed in the honest

[3:33:46] Trustee Luckham: Trust relieves a senior person from having to do it, which may be mundane for that senior person

[3:33:53] Trustee Luckham: because they've already got their degree and they're already doing their great work.

[3:33:57] Trustee Luckham: And they simply need help to be able to do better and do more. And we should always do better and

[3:34:02] Trustee Luckham: more if we can, especially if there's some savings. And I think there's really great

[3:34:06] Trustee Luckham: return on it. We hear this year and year on that the work that's contributed by co-op students is

[3:34:14] Trustee Luckham: significant. Finally, the Islands Trust Conservancy budget ecosystems mapping. You know, the Islands

[3:34:20] Trustee Luckham: Trust Conservancy is the advanced line of the Islands Trust. They're out there preserving and

[3:34:26] Trustee Luckham: protecting what needs to be and can be protected. The boots on the ground. And we need to support

[3:34:33] Trustee Luckham: every inch of that preserve and protect work. Because where we're failing, honestly, in planning

[3:34:40] Trustee Luckham: and land use bylaws development,

[3:34:45] Trustee Luckham: the Island Trust Conservancy is picking up

[3:34:48] Trustee Luckham: as much of the good stuff as they can.

[3:34:50] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, there's grant money that's there

[3:34:53] Trustee Luckham: that needs to be balanced out.

[3:34:56] Trustee Luckham: And so some of those cuts need to dovetail

[3:34:58] Trustee Luckham: into the labor component that is being supported

[3:35:01] Trustee Luckham: by the grant money.

[3:35:03] Trustee Luckham: And thankfully, the Island Trust Conservancy

[3:35:06] Trustee Luckham: has managed to bring in millions of dollars at this point.

[3:35:09] Trustee Luckham: and so i'm glad to see it so um yeah i uh it's up to council in many respects to make some of

[3:35:17] Trustee Luckham: these decisions i don't know that i can support fbc recommending a budget that excludes all those

[3:35:24] Trustee Luckham: things that i've spoken

[3:35:25] Voice 4: to thank you thank you peter um i think your

[3:35:33] Trustee Bernardo: remarks are uh helpful

[3:35:36] Trustee Bernardo: in a certain respect.

[3:35:39] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, you've gone through this fairly detailed litany

[3:35:43] Trustee Bernardo: of these items, which is appropriate

[3:35:45] Trustee Bernardo: because that's what we're presented with.

[3:35:48] Trustee Bernardo: And you've put forward arguments in favor of them

[3:35:52] Trustee Bernardo: on their merits, but I'd remind you and the group

[3:35:59] Trustee Bernardo: that the starting point for this analysis from Mae Reed

[3:36:05] Trustee Bernardo: and the comments that we heard from Christina

[3:36:08] Trustee Bernardo: Tina, and from Laura are all of a piece, which is it's a claim that we have a deficit in strategic

[3:36:18] Trustee Bernardo: thinking. And what you've essentially put forward is an argument in favor of the status quo.

[3:36:26] Trustee Bernardo: Everything's fine. We should continue to spend this money. And when I say status quo, that's not

[3:36:31] Trustee Bernardo: meant as a critical remark. Sometimes the status quo is fine, and that seems to be your position.

[3:36:40] Voice 4: the um as this discussion moves forward uh

[3:36:47] Trustee Bernardo: i would hope that you know and people are entitled

[3:36:51] Trustee Bernardo: to address these individual items and make arguments in favor or against them as they see fit

[3:36:55] Trustee Bernardo: but i really would like to see this um difference in uh of the principles from which people are

[3:37:06] Trustee Bernardo: operating from get surfaced and that we have the at least a good chunk of this discussion be

[3:37:11] Trustee Bernardo: be operating at the level of principle. On

[3:37:13] Trustee Bernardo: the one hand, we've got an emerging view that we need

[3:37:17] Trustee Bernardo: more strategic thinking here. Those of us who are newcomers heard at the outset from Russ and others

[3:37:24] Trustee Bernardo: when we were provided with orientation, and

[3:37:26] Voice 17: we've been repeatedly told that staff is overcommitted

[3:37:29] Voice 17: and the Islands Trust is overcommitted to various things. When we look at, as

[3:37:37] Trustee Bernardo: newcomers, when we

[3:37:38] Trustee Bernardo: you look at the business cases, it's far from clear what the

[3:37:42] Voice 18: deliverables are and how they

[3:37:44] Voice 18: match up with the island's trust mandate. And so when Laura was talking how she'd prefer to see a

[3:37:51] Voice 18: better language that focuses on strategic thinking, I actually

[3:37:55] Trustee Bernardo: think there's no disagreement

[3:37:56] Trustee Bernardo: here and where Laura and Mereed are coming from. We've discovered this revenue shortfall is

[3:38:05] Trustee Bernardo: structural at this stage. When Mereed talks about pausing or suspending things to repeat what

[3:38:11] Trustee Bernardo: we talked about before, she's not actually addressing these different items on their

[3:38:17] Trustee Bernardo: merits like Peter did. It's using that suspension language precisely because she's asking for the

[3:38:27] Trustee Bernardo: strategic thinking that Laura thinks is important. What are the deliverables for these things? Do

[3:38:35] Trustee Bernardo: Do they have merit?

[3:38:36] Trustee Bernardo: We don't know.

[3:38:39] Trustee Bernardo: And normally, that would be something that you work out in the normal business cycle.

[3:38:43] Trustee Bernardo: The problem is we found ourselves at the outset of this facing a potential 10% tax increase.

[3:38:51] Trustee Bernardo: And this is work designed to take us down to a zero tax increase.

[3:38:58] Trustee Bernardo: So it's fair enough to discuss the individual items.

[3:39:03] Trustee Bernardo: But I really would hope, as this discussion continues, that the principles at stake here

[3:39:08] Trustee Bernardo: are also discussed. Even if we concede that every one of these items has merit,

[3:39:18] Voice 4: we still have

[3:39:19] Trustee Bernardo: to address this issue of strategic thinking. We still have to address the issue of

[3:39:24] Trustee Bernardo: when is it appropriate to ask the public to pay more? Are these things, things that are

[3:39:32] Trustee Bernardo: justifiable to the public? If you go to a public meeting and somebody asks you,

[3:39:35] Trustee Bernardo: why am I paying more taxes? The answer is because we need to pay for these things.

[3:39:41] Trustee Bernardo: Is that something we're prepared to do?

[3:39:45] Trustee Bernardo: And is this principle that we need to sort of

[3:39:48] Trustee Bernardo: take a fresh look at things

[3:39:49] Trustee Bernardo: before we make any real decisions,

[3:39:51] Trustee Bernardo: we need to take a fresh look at things

[3:39:53] Trustee Bernardo: from a strategic point of view.

[3:39:55] Trustee Bernardo: That's really what the proposal is here.

[3:39:58] Trustee Bernardo: So it's fair enough that we go through

[3:40:00] Trustee Bernardo: these individual line items,

[3:40:01] Trustee Bernardo: but let's not lose sight of the principle discussion here.

[3:40:03] Trustee Bernardo: And I apologize for

[3:40:04] Voice 18: taking up so much of the air time

[3:40:06] Voice 18: with that point, but

[3:40:07] Voice 17: I think it's fairly important.

[3:40:09] Voice 17: Trustee Elliot, over to you.

[3:40:13] Trustee Elliott: Thank you, Chair. Yeah, so speaking to the broad view and strategic thinking, I would ask whether

[3:40:22] Trustee Elliott: it's actually a risk in the long run of inflating the expectations of taxpayers that we can

[3:40:31] Trustee Elliott: continue as an organization doing more with less. In a year when we have heightened costs everywhere

[3:40:39] Trustee Elliott: And those costs are proven. They're not imaginary. We're not adding in new programs. These are costs of the realities of life everywhere. The context has shifted. And that the Islands Trust would be the one body to maintain or lower the tax increase in a year like this pushes the problem further down the road.

[3:41:01] Trustee Elliott: And we have done that as an organization continually to the point that we are strapped

[3:41:10] Trustee Elliott: in not being able to complete the work that we are mandated to do. And so in a tight budget year,

[3:41:17] Trustee Elliott: I 100% agree with retrenching, analyzing our processes, figuring out where is money being

[3:41:26] Trustee Elliott: spent that is not leading to the overall mandate, but you have to look at the larger context of

[3:41:38] Trustee Elliott: where the rest of the world is at. And the proof is in, as Trustee Luckham said, the non-market

[3:41:45] Trustee Elliott: change has gone up. People are moving here. People are building here. So I don't think that we can

[3:41:52] Trustee Elliott: just assume that a tax increase is going to be unbearable by everybody i think probably every

[3:42:00] Trustee Elliott: local government is going to see a tax increase that's just reality and so that's the larger

[3:42:05] Trustee Elliott: context that i'd like to speak to just for um and then i'll just briefly go through speaking

[3:42:11] Trustee Elliott: as a representative for the islands trust conservancy um the board will be meeting on

[3:42:18] Trustee Elliott: the 24th and if a reduction is requested um i would request that you bring that to the board

[3:42:26] Trustee Elliott: which is a parallel organization to the islands trust it's not subsidiary and i don't think we

[3:42:32] Trustee Elliott: can make decisions on where reductions should be made ecosystem mapping um is critical scientific

[3:42:38] Trustee Elliott: data that you need to do covenant and ecological protection so making those kind of decisions um

[3:42:45] Trustee Elliott: At the level of this body, I don't think it's appropriate. Let the ITC decide, let the board decide if cuts need to be made, then that's their decision.

[3:42:56] Trustee Elliott: So, another question I have is whether the addition of a financial management position, such as has been discussed, would alleviate any of the load, the administrative load that the proposed administrative coordinator would fill.

[3:43:16] Trustee Elliott: So is there any, if fulfilling the financial management position would help spread some of that out, then I could see the administrative coordinator not being needed.

[3:43:29] Trustee Elliott: And then the third point, the meeting coordinator, I understood that we're already paying for that work through the equivalent of one full-time staff person.

[3:43:42] Trustee Elliott: And I think there's three, one third, one third and one third. And then we're paying contracted people. So I don't understand how not adding a meeting coordinator is going to save us any money. But if somebody can clarify that for me, I'd appreciate it. That's all I'll say for now.

[3:44:00] Trustee Bernardo: on that last point trustee elliott um i would ask that um uh director mobs uh take a note of

[3:44:07] Trustee Bernardo: that question so that when she comes back to us uh after we finished our discussion and she can

[3:44:13] Trustee Bernardo: address you know whether these numbers add up or not that um she might be in a better position to

[3:44:19] Trustee Bernardo: to answer those questions and especially that last one you just had so thank you for that trustee

[3:44:24] Trustee Bernardo: Evans.

[3:44:25] Voice 7: Thank you. I just wanted to clarify what my other points were earlier. The Secretariat

[3:44:31] Voice 7: Services, like I said, I believe that this is an important line item. And I was asking if Claire

[3:44:36] Voice 7: could confirm that, because if that is the case, then leave the Secretariat Services as they are

[3:44:43] Voice 7: $15,000 is not a make or break point in here. With regards to the Policy Statement Amendment

[3:44:49] Voice 7: Project, like I said, we're going to be having discussions. We've got a meeting coming up in a

[3:44:53] Voice 7: couple of weeks. And at that point, we can look to see how we can keep the work moving forward in

[3:45:00] Voice 7: a more creative manner. And at that point, we can figure out how much money we're going to need. We

[3:45:05] Voice 7: may not need very much money. So that $50,000 could be reduced quite significantly for this

[3:45:14] Voice 7: year. I have to jump

[3:45:16] Trustee Bernardo: in here. I'm sorry, Trustee Evans, but I'm going to jump in here because I

[3:45:19] Trustee Bernardo: I think you've zeroed in on potentially a really important point here that you're saying that, you know, that these funds that have worked their way into the draft budget,

[3:45:33] Trustee Bernardo: which are being proposed to be suspended. This is part of the dilemma, I think, which is there's real uncertainty right now as to whether or not they're even necessary.

[3:45:44] Trustee Bernardo: there. So what that tells us from just from a budgeting point of view is the merits of that

[3:45:51] Trustee Bernardo: expenditure at this stage are unknown. So what are we doing

[3:45:57] Voice 17: sort of just parking that money

[3:46:01] Trustee Bernardo: on a contingency that it might be worthwhile? I mean, I like I'm sounding kind of strong about

[3:46:08] Trustee Bernardo: that, but it's like that's not necessarily my view about it. But I think that's where this

[3:46:12] Trustee Bernardo: um that's where this call for revisions is coming from do you have anything to comment about

[3:46:18] Trustee Bernardo: along those lines that we don't really know whether this money's even uh you know is to be

[3:46:24] Trustee Bernardo: allocated in a worthwhile direction um

[3:46:27] Voice 7: i was just going to say if you allow us to have our next

[3:46:30] Voice 7: meetings then we can come back with a more uh clearer picture of the funds that we are going

[3:46:35] Voice 7: to be requiring for this year our next meeting is specifically designed to discuss the amount

[3:46:42] Voice 7: amount of funding needed for this upcoming year versus the placeholders that are in there currently

[3:46:47] Voice 7: that was what i was trying to get across the other question that

[3:46:50] Voice 7: i had for um for staff is regarding

[3:46:55] Voice 7: the staff salary increases they had put in a 6.1 um medium position the language in the in the in

[3:47:05] Voice 7: and the agenda was possible increase between 5.5 to 6.75%,

[3:47:11] Voice 7: and they chose a medium percentage for staff increases.

[3:47:14] Voice 7: Can we get the actual staff increase amount solidified

[3:47:19] Voice 7: so that we have a firmer amount in the budget?

[3:47:24] Voice 7: And also my other question was,

[3:47:27] Voice 7: who decides where the increase falls

[3:47:32] Voice 7: between that 5.5 and 6.75%.

[3:47:37] Voice 7: If somebody could answer that, that would be fabulous.

[3:47:40] Trustee Bernardo: Again, as I mentioned before

[3:47:42] Trustee Bernardo: with Trustee Elliot's questions,

[3:47:44] Trustee Bernardo: I think it would be helpful to have staff,

[3:47:47] Trustee Bernardo: possibly Julia, answer that.

[3:47:48] Trustee Bernardo: You have a question for Director Frater.

[3:47:52] Trustee Bernardo: I'm hoping staff is making note of these

[3:47:54] Trustee Bernardo: so that they can actually answer those questions directly

[3:47:56] Trustee Bernardo: after the trustees have had a chance to continue the debate.

[3:48:01] Trustee Bernardo: uh my preference here is that we hear as full deliberations as possible from the trustees

[3:48:08] Trustee Bernardo: to get their thoughts out and then some of these more technical things and details we can pursue

[3:48:14] Trustee Bernardo: them and uh closer to the end of what the trustee deliberations trustee patrick please

[3:48:20] Trustee Bernardo: no thank

[3:48:22] Trustee Patrick: you again i mean i think we have to be cautious too that this is a this is some of what

[3:48:30] Trustee Patrick: what we're dealing with is the fact that we've had a change of management.

[3:48:35] Trustee Patrick: We have new trustees that have been elected into the position and,

[3:48:40] Trustee Patrick: you know, that are at a sort of what you,

[3:48:42] Trustee Patrick: a mature level of budgeting has already occurred.

[3:48:46] Trustee Patrick: So some of this is just correcting to the influences of the new,

[3:48:50] Trustee Patrick: of the new trustees and we're behind.

[3:48:54] Trustee Patrick: That's the frustration of where we are like regional planning committee.

[3:48:57] Trustee Patrick: We're going to meet on February 1st.

[3:48:59] Trustee Patrick: We spent time yesterday structuring questions to staff. So we've made a motion that had a series of questions that we had for staff that we asked, this is the information we needed answers to so that we could make budget decisions at the February 1st meeting.

[3:49:15] Trustee Patrick: So that was a worthwhile activity to do and something we may need to do here.

[3:49:20] Trustee Patrick: We may not be able to get, there may need to be analysis or further information brought back to us from staff and may not be able to be questioned today.

[3:49:29] Trustee Patrick: So I think just that was a good activity yesterday.

[3:49:32] Trustee Patrick: The other thing I wanted to bring up is outside of these items that we're considering brought by Trustee Boland is that the project, the $250,000 number, not all local trust committees have met yet.

[3:49:48] Trustee Patrick: Even Salt Spring, who have already made cuts, that was done in a two-minute conversation out of an eight-hour meeting.

[3:49:56] Trustee Patrick: We have a whole strategic planning session coming later this week.

[3:50:00] Trustee Patrick: So there may be further refinements to Salt Springs. I know Denman Island had noted that they hadn't had a chance yet to meet to even talk about their money. So there could be further refinements coming to that $250,000 item and likely refinements coming to the SWPA request as we get into the third quarter actuals of what we need for next year will become clearer with that information.

[3:50:27] Trustee Patrick: So like I said, some of this is frustrating

[3:50:29] Trustee Patrick: because we are behind and we haven't had a chance

[3:50:32] Trustee Patrick: to have those strategic conversations at all

[3:50:34] Trustee Patrick: at our local trust committees.

[3:50:38] Trustee Patrick: So that's why I know I'm feeling a little

[3:50:41] Trustee Patrick: out of wampus here.

[3:50:46] Voice 4: Thank you, Trustee Patrick.

[3:50:48] Voice 4: Trustee Peterson.

[3:50:52] Voice 16: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[3:50:53] Voice 16: So I'll just start with,

[3:50:55] Voice 16: as you requested for the broad principles,

[3:50:57] Voice 16: bulls uh look before i get into any uh more granular detail i think what i would lead off

[3:51:04] Voice 16: with uh as and it has been mentioned before but i'll just reiterate my uh stance is that

[3:51:11] Voice 16: reconciliation is is um is perhaps new to uh some of the new trustees it's relatively new in terms

[3:51:22] Voice 16: in terms of its status in the provincial statute

[3:51:27] Voice 16: with the implementation, you know, the DRIPA legislation.

[3:51:32] Voice 16: However, that's one area where I don't think

[3:51:37] Voice 16: it is at all appropriate to try and cut corners there.

[3:51:44] Voice 16: One of the other trustees mentioned

[3:51:47] Voice 16: local trust committee work being held up

[3:51:49] Voice 16: um and uh i will say on my local trust committee um the lack of having somebody in that senior

[3:51:58] Voice 16: policy advisor role uh to help coordinate uh first nations uh referral responses to our official

[3:52:08] Voice 16: community plan project has delayed our project by an entire year at this point so that's just from

[3:52:16] Voice 16: you know the Liskety local trust committee perspective that's a that's a

[3:52:23] Voice 16: year gone anyway I just want to reiterate that I think it's important to

[3:52:32] Voice 16: keep that aspect of the importance of reconciliation at top of mind for all of

[3:52:38] Voice 16: us it is interwoven and all that we do at this point and as it should be a

[3:52:44] Voice 16: A couple other points. I recognize that we have a number of requests for more staffing here, and there is sometimes a perception that Islands Trust might be overstaffed or that the staff isn't doing all that they could.

[3:53:06] Voice 16: My experience is that our staff is oversubscribed is a very polite way to put that we're piling way more on their plates than they have the capacity to deal with.

[3:53:18] Voice 16: I think it's totally appropriate to consider when we're looking at new positions and when we're looking at any kind of reductions or additions, not just what the base number of staff hours are, but what level of seniority that staff is that has to jump in.

[3:53:38] Voice 16: and if we don't fill one of these other positions,

[3:53:41] Voice 16: does that mean a more senior staff person

[3:53:44] Voice 16: is then taking up the completion of the project?

[3:53:48] Voice 16: And is that in fact a savings

[3:53:50] Voice 16: or is that in fact costing the organization more money?

[3:53:53] Voice 16: I think that's important consideration.

[3:53:58] Voice 16: The one thing that was sort of alluded to a little bit

[3:54:00] Voice 16: by Trustee Patrick, who's congratulations

[3:54:03] Voice 16: as the new Regional Planning Committee Chair,

[3:54:09] Voice 16: but that I think in today's budget conversation

[3:54:14] Voice 16: is perhaps a little lighter than it might normally be

[3:54:17] Voice 16: in the course of these deliberations in a non-election year,

[3:54:21] Voice 16: which is that all of the committees and their projects

[3:54:27] Voice 16: and their business cases are generally well represented

[3:54:33] Voice 16: by those committee chairs and that is part of the the committee chair's function is to represent

[3:54:39] Voice 16: um those committee projects and and sort of help us and trust council sort of assess the value and

[3:54:49] Voice 16: the importance of all of those projects and i feel that um you know given the timing of this

[3:54:55] Voice 16: particular meeting we're a little bit light on that level of committee representation

[3:54:59] Voice 16: presentation uh today that's that's my sense of it uh so that's just a perspective and um

[3:55:07] Voice 16: the governance committee uh you know represents for a lot of uh a lot of trustees and and perhaps

[3:55:17] Voice 16: even a fair amount of the public uh sort of uh the hopes and wishes the potential for

[3:55:24] Voice 16: for making this organization operate in a more nimble

[3:55:30] Voice 16: and more responsive and a more efficient way.

[3:55:34] Voice 16: And so that's where I'm going to shift

[3:55:37] Voice 16: into my more specific comments

[3:55:39] Voice 16: because the governance committees placeholder requests here

[3:55:45] Voice 16: that's being proposed to be cut is the only funding

[3:55:51] Voice 16: that's been requested by the governance committee.

[3:55:53] Voice 16: and I'm very concerned that we're even considering

[3:55:59] Voice 16: removing all of their potential funding

[3:56:04] Voice 16: to get anything done when that committee

[3:56:06] Voice 16: has yet to even meet and look at what its approaches

[3:56:11] Voice 16: might be to what kind of work it wants

[3:56:15] Voice 16: to get done in this year.

[3:56:16] Voice 16: If we are talking about the governance committee

[3:56:21] Voice 16: meeting tomorrow their first time

[3:56:23] Voice 16: and having the news that financial planning committee

[3:56:27] Voice 16: has perhaps decided to turn down all of their funding,

[3:56:31] Voice 16: how does that affect the scope of that committee,

[3:56:34] Voice 16: which so many hopes are attached to

[3:56:37] Voice 16: in terms of making the organization

[3:56:41] Voice 16: a better and more functional one?

[3:56:44] Voice 16: So let's see, the policy statement amendment project,

[3:56:51] Voice 16: I believe that the amount that we're looking at in this proposal eliminating is about half

[3:57:02] Voice 16: of what the initial proposal from the last iteration of the trust programs committee

[3:57:09] Voice 16: is.

[3:57:09] Voice 16: So that committee has already halved it and now we're saying, okay, we'll take your offer

[3:57:17] Voice 16: offer of reduction and and just say not at all and and to me having been on that committee for

[3:57:26] Voice 16: the last several years there has been an immense amount of trustee work an immense amount of staff

[3:57:33] Voice 16: time and quite a lot of expenditure financially uh doing the work doing the numerous referrals

[3:57:43] Voice 16: the public engagement, to me, to contemplate pausing, which I don't think is an accurate representation of what we're talking.

[3:57:54] Voice 16: We're talking deferral for a year, which I just don't see that as appropriate to essentially take all the steam out,

[3:58:07] Voice 16: completely devalue all the energy, effort, and money that's gone into this project by completely defining it.

[3:58:14] Trustee Bernardo: I'm going to interject here, Trustee Peterson.

[3:58:18] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think it's fair to the proposal

[3:58:21] Trustee Bernardo: to say that it's devaluing the work.

[3:58:25] Trustee Bernardo: Let's accept the proposal.

[3:58:27] Trustee Bernardo: I'm

[3:58:27] Voice 16: just saying my opinion.

[3:58:29] Trustee Bernardo: Let me just finish the point.

[3:58:31] Trustee Bernardo: Let's accept the proposal at its face value

[3:58:33] Trustee Bernardo: on the basis for it, which is not to devalue it.

[3:58:38] Trustee Bernardo: Like this isn't coming from a place of any commentary

[3:58:42] Trustee Bernardo: about the merits of it.

[3:58:44] Trustee Bernardo: So let's be fair about understanding

[3:58:48] Trustee Bernardo: that this is a balancing exercise only,

[3:58:51] Voice 16: okay?

[3:58:52] Voice 16: Okay, so from a financial point of view

[3:58:54] Voice 16: and for the amount of investment

[3:58:56] Voice 16: that's gone into that project at this point,

[3:59:00] Voice 16: I'm not, I wasn't trying to say it's a judgment value.

[3:59:05] Voice 16: That's more of the financial,

[3:59:07] Voice 16: like it's throwing the money away

[3:59:08] Voice 16: is what I was trying to get at.

[3:59:11] Voice 16: I already went on the government's committee.

[3:59:17] Voice 16: uh oh and we've heard yeah my other point was a representation from the conservancy and thank you

[3:59:22] Voice 16: trustee elliott for speaking up on the half of the conservancy's uh interest there thank you

[3:59:31] Voice 4: uh do you have anything else to add trustee peterson

[3:59:35] Voice 16: uh no that that's that's it i wanted

[3:59:38] Voice 16: to start out with the broad principles and those are i i could go on at length about each item but

[3:59:43] Voice 16: i i'm not going to do that right now i

[3:59:46] Trustee Bernardo: i do have a question for you um uh in that um i don't think

[3:59:50] Trustee Bernardo: there's any dispute among any of the trustees that uh

[3:59:54] Trustee Bernardo: reconciliation is crucial um again getting back to the the kind of

[4:00:00] Trustee Bernardo: nuts and bolts premise that this review is coming from. This specific expenditure on

[4:00:10] Trustee Bernardo: reconciliation that's contemplated in this draft budget, it's not exactly clear what the

[4:00:18] Trustee Bernardo: deliverables are, but let's assume somebody knows what they are. But the point you made before about

[4:00:27] Trustee Bernardo: about how the need to advance reconciliation

[4:00:32] Trustee Bernardo: is ties into actually advancing various initiatives

[4:00:37] Trustee Bernardo: and projects at the LTC level,

[4:00:39] Trustee Bernardo: because the consultation is crucial

[4:00:40] Trustee Bernardo: and it's all works in that way.

[4:00:43] Trustee Bernardo: Are you able to say whether or not

[4:00:45] Trustee Bernardo: these specific deliverables that are contemplated

[4:00:48] Trustee Bernardo: to emerge from this expenditure and reconciliation

[4:00:54] Trustee Bernardo: is contemplated in this draft budget,

[4:00:56] Trustee Bernardo: would they how would they help alleviate the delays that you had mentioned before

[4:01:00] Trustee Bernardo: uh

[4:01:03] Voice 16: thanks for the question i can't actually give you uh you know a granular answer on that

[4:01:08] Voice 16: and uh i did sort of prefer that that part of my uh remarks were meant to be uh more about

[4:01:16] Voice 16: principle and and it's absolutely true i did throw in uh a couple examples about how reconciliation

[4:01:23] Voice 16: reconciliation um interweaves into all of our work but uh in terms of the actual line item here

[4:01:34] Voice 16: i i can't give a a direct answer to that um my talk about the uh reconciliation was definitely

[4:01:43] Voice 16: more about general principles okay sorry if i

[4:01:46] Voice 16: muddied if i muddied the water there i'm sorry

[4:01:48] Trustee Bernardo: oh not at all i mean it's fair enough i just wanted to clarify that that's fine though

[4:01:53] Trustee Bernardo: it's like it's a discussion

[4:01:55] Voice 4: trustee graham thank you chair bernardo wow we're an interesting meeting

[4:02:04] Voice 14: um uh speaking as a a new trustee um without the background of all the work that the previous

[4:02:13] Voice 14: trustees have put into these very important projects the the passionate um requests from

[4:02:20] Voice 14: from the various departments of the trust

[4:02:23] Voice 14: are ably supported by their new chairs

[4:02:27] Voice 14: and they feel really good.

[4:02:28] Voice 14: I attended the regional planning committee meeting yesterday

[4:02:31] Voice 14: and it was really enlightening to hear the freshwater,

[4:02:40] Voice 14: Mr. I'm sorry, I can't think of his name, William,

[4:02:43] Voice 14: whatever his last name is, William.

[4:02:44] Voice 14: Thank you.

[4:02:46] Voice 14: you. And the fact that the regional district and the province are using the data and appreciate

[4:02:53] Voice 14: the work that the trust has done. Once again, the trust has found itself on the leading edge

[4:02:58] Voice 14: of the work that various governments would like to be doing, but perhaps they're not nimble enough

[4:03:03] Voice 14: to have taken it on. A big shift I can see, I'm speaking philosophically here about my value

[4:03:13] Voice 14: value system here, between when I was a trustee and the climate that I'm observing now, the work

[4:03:21] Voice 14: that we did on Denman specifically back in the early 2000s, and that's a long time ago, I appreciate

[4:03:28] Voice 14: that, official community plan reviews, land use bylaw takes, were a product of the community.

[4:03:37] Voice 14: the community created groups to look at various parts of the official community plan

[4:03:43] Voice 14: there was a housing group there was a sustainable strategy for a resources group there was a this

[4:03:49] Voice 14: group there was a that group they came to they worked their their butts off in in living rooms

[4:03:54] Voice 14: and coffee shops and they came together with no external uh consultant hired um and then the

[4:04:02] Voice 14: planner uh cobbled everything together and put it in legal form and then the community beat it up

[4:04:06] Voice 14: and twisted it and wrapped it around.

[4:04:08] Voice 14: And we ended up with a really good official community plan.

[4:04:10] Voice 14: If you haven't looked at the Denman Island

[4:04:12] Voice 14: official community plan, you should.

[4:04:16] Voice 14: It starts with the geology of the island.

[4:04:20] Voice 14: It moves through the First Nations.

[4:04:22] Voice 14: It talks about the history

[4:04:24] Voice 14: all the way through to present day.

[4:04:26] Voice 14: My point being, what I recognize now

[4:04:29] Voice 14: is a lot of work of the trust

[4:04:30] Voice 14: is being fed to the consultant,

[4:04:32] Voice 14: the world of the specialist.

[4:04:33] Voice 14: And that's very expensive.

[4:04:35] Voice 14: And I think the reason this has happened is because when trustees sit around in those early days and they develop a strategic plan, it's always ambitious.

[4:04:45] Voice 14: Everybody wants to do everything, and everything that they propose, that we propose, is important.

[4:04:50] Voice 14: I get that.

[4:04:51] Voice 14: But the burden that falls to the people who live on the islands, that's a financial burden.

[4:04:58] Voice 14: It's a real burden.

[4:04:58] Voice 14: And I appreciate Trustee Chair Luckin, you know, telling us that a lot of new people have come. And that's true. A lot of new people have come. But by and large, the people who have supported the trust over the last 40 years are the people that I hear on my island.

[4:05:17] Voice 14: And they don't feel as connected to the trust as they used to. They don't understand a lot of the work that the trust is doing. And the costs are something that are a real irritant. And they don't understand why the trust is almost a $10 million local planning function, preserve and protect government.

[4:05:37] Voice 14: And it's pretty hard to argue that what they're getting is value for their money when various projects are delayed. They take an enormous amount of time to come to the communities. Even the application delay seems to be a little extreme.

[4:05:54] Voice 14: And I appreciate that our staff have a lot on their plate and they're overworked and they're stressed and they can't do the kind of quality work that they want to do.

[4:06:03] Voice 14: And we see that perhaps in the number of people that come into the trust and then leave and work in larger governments with regional districts because they have more support to do the work that they want to do.

[4:06:14] Voice 14: I get that. So in a way, I actually feel we're trying to do too much and it's better to do less, but to do it better.

[4:06:22] Voice 14: And this work, Trustee Boland, has really brought this conversation to a really interesting place where if I put my regional planning hat on, I want to fund this very important work.

[4:06:36] Voice 14: If I put my financial planning committee on, I need to be the person that's looking at the dollars.

[4:06:42] Voice 14: I mean, it's just where the rubber hits the road.

[4:06:47] Voice 14: This is where it all happens, the dollars that we're asking to do this work.

[4:06:52] Voice 14: I'm sorry I don't have any more information to share with you this is really tough work I get it

[4:06:59] Voice 14: but if we can make some cuts here it sends a very positive message to our constituents

[4:07:05] Voice 14: that we're trying that we're listening and we're trying to do the best that we can thank you

[4:07:12] Voice 14: thank

[4:07:14] Voice 4: you trustee Graham trustee Elliott thank

[4:07:19] Trustee Elliott: you chair I just wanted to offer an example

[4:07:21] Trustee Elliott: for your question of how reconciliation um monies can impact local planning i am new to this so

[4:07:32] Trustee Elliott: this is just an area i'm stepping into but um from my conversations with staff and with people

[4:07:39] Trustee Elliott: who have decades of experience um working on behalf of nations um we are at the point now

[4:07:47] Trustee Elliott: um where um nations will not talk to us or have a meeting unless there is capacity funding

[4:07:58] Trustee Elliott: they are no longer going to bear the burden or impose on their communities which have

[4:08:06] Trustee Elliott: not a lot of funding um the engagement costs and so that means we have to put up money

[4:08:13] Trustee Elliott: and this is a structural issue that we need to go to the province and say if you want us to do

[4:08:19] Trustee Elliott: reconciliation well this needs to be at least partly supported by the province and i think

[4:08:24] Trustee Elliott: that's going to be a significant piece of work um in the next four years but we're not there yet

[4:08:30] Trustee Elliott: and so in my local ltc as we contemplate an ocp review um in the next year which we've put off

[4:08:39] Trustee Elliott: for a year so that we can save you know forty thousand dollars you're welcome um we uh we're

[4:08:48] Trustee Elliott: We're looking to do early and meaningful engagement with the first nation who have the sole territorial rights to Gabriel Island.

[4:08:56] Trustee Elliott: So as we look at our OCP, we have to ask, is the nation interested in being involved in any part of the process?

[4:09:04] Trustee Elliott: They may not be, but they might.

[4:09:06] Trustee Elliott: Does the nation want to engage in designing the engagement process and consultation process so that we're not in a position like Laskiti is two years down the road or a year down the road, and now they want consultation and we put things on pause because we've already started a process without that conversation.

[4:09:29] Trustee Elliott: conversation so for me to go to snenemuk and say are you interested in being involved

[4:09:37] Trustee Elliott: we recognize that there is a cost to that it's going to be two hundred dollars a meeting or an

[4:09:44] Trustee Elliott: advisor from the nation to um to give your input because it is actually expert input from their

[4:09:52] Trustee Elliott: perspective of what their nation priorities are and we can't dictate those terms so i recognize

[4:09:58] Trustee Elliott: that the reconciliation action plan it's kind of a fund that is set aside for engagement activities

[4:10:08] Trustee Elliott: that we don't know what it's going to be like yet but we need that money there if we're going to do

[4:10:13] Trustee Elliott: reconciliation it it's not a negotiable at this point we're funding it and that maybe is again

[4:10:21] Trustee Elliott: that conversation with the province has to be had um but it's a step that if we don't take

[4:10:29] Trustee Elliott: it's going to leave us in a position of not early and meaningful engagement and that's not where we

[4:10:38] Trustee Elliott: want to be we don't want to go backwards so that's what that looks like um it could it be a two

[4:10:43] Trustee Elliott: thousand dollars per ltc as all of us go into our ocp reviews this year it might be we don't know

[4:10:52] Trustee Elliott: right so thirty thousand dollars kind of like a placeholder but those are engagement activities

[4:10:57] Trustee Elliott: that are critical to the work of the trust so

[4:11:01] Trustee Bernardo: um just to clarify um in your view it sounds like

[4:11:07] Trustee Bernardo: you think this specific expenditure um would advance the kind of um engagement that you've

[4:11:13] Trustee Bernardo: mentioned is necessary for reconciliation you think this would help fund that like you you

[4:11:19] Trustee Bernardo: can see this as a a deliverable from this expenditure

[4:11:22] Trustee Elliott: there's nowhere else that it's

[4:11:24] Trustee Elliott: budgeted. So at the moment, what I understand is when we budget, say, $18,000 for engagement on an

[4:11:34] Trustee Elliott: OCP review, we're engaging with our community. That money is not yet, it's not for engaging with

[4:11:41] Trustee Elliott: the nation. So this is an example I'm giving you of what the Reconciliation Action Plan might

[4:11:47] Trustee Elliott: might include it's it's capacity funding for nations to tell us this is what we want the

[4:11:54] Trustee Elliott: process to look like this is where you can engage with us or this is where we want to have input we

[4:11:59] Trustee Elliott: don't want to have input until you have an issue with uh parkland let's say but we don't know that

[4:12:05] Trustee Elliott: but to even have a meeting there needs to be money there i don't know if i'm not saying that thirty

[4:12:10] Trustee Elliott: thousand dollars is the amount that would be spent but it's kind of like a placeholder if we

[4:12:16] Trustee Elliott: We value reconciliation. This is the most likely way that it would be spent as capacity funding because we're in this interim place where we don't yet have shared decision making.

[4:12:27] Trustee Elliott: And so we need to pay for that, for their ability to be at the table.

[4:12:33] Trustee Bernardo: At the risk of seeming dense yet again, I don't understand what capacity funding means.

[4:12:42] Trustee Bernardo: And I don't mean that as a critical thing. I just don't know what it means.

[4:12:44] Trustee Bernardo: can you explain for at least for my benefit and i

[4:12:48] Trustee Elliott: think salt spring island um in their ocp review

[4:12:51] Trustee Elliott: there's a few line items the the typical fund is is two hundred dollars per or cost would be two

[4:12:59] Trustee Elliott: hundred dollars per uh first nations knowledge holder or um maybe claire can inform us um but

[4:13:06] Trustee Elliott: if you're having an all-day event with several um people think of them as consultants and um

[4:13:13] Trustee Elliott: So there are just costs for people to be at the table there.

[4:13:18] Trustee Bernardo: And would these be representatives of First Nations or Indigenous groups, elected officials or staff members from those entities?

[4:13:28] Trustee Bernardo: I'm

[4:13:29] Trustee Elliott: probably not the best person to speak to it.

[4:13:31] Trustee Elliott: Mr.

[4:13:31] Voice 12: Chair, there are staff present at the meeting that could assist you with some of these technical questions associated with reconciliation and protocol agreements and those kinds of things.

[4:13:39] Trustee Bernardo: Please, CAO.

[4:13:41] Trustee Bernardo: i'm not

[4:13:43] Trustee Elliott: an expert and that's the limit of what i can offer sorry that's fair enough

[4:13:47] Trustee Elliott: that's fair

[4:13:48] Trustee Bernardo: enough that's fair enough but

[4:13:50] Voice 4: um

[4:13:52] Trustee Bernardo: i view it as important and when we use terms like capacity

[4:13:57] Trustee Bernardo: funding or anything else that we're actually clear because

[4:14:01] Voice 18: i'm not clear i'm really not clear

[4:14:02] Voice 18: as to what they actually mean um that's the purpose and you know uh you can expect more

[4:14:08] Trustee Bernardo: questions along those lines and I appreciate the CEO's contribution that the staff can answer

[4:14:17] Trustee Bernardo: those questions. I'll just point out that when the trustees want the staff's input, we'll ask for it.

[4:14:24] Trustee Bernardo: Mr. Luckham.

[4:14:27] Voice 4: Thank you, Chair.

[4:14:29] Trustee Luckham: I put my hand up earlier to try and answer this question about

[4:14:34] Trustee Luckham: the reconciliation action plan implementation. I'll just emphasize that for a minute,

[4:14:40] Trustee Luckham: implementation um so what i'd like to say actually is this reconciliation action plan is a plan that

[4:14:53] Trustee Luckham: council has adopted and that reconciliation action plan has come from our initial commitment

[4:15:02] Trustee Luckham: to declaration to reconciliation with islands trust and both of those pieces of work have come

[4:15:10] Trustee Luckham: from the significant work undertaken by the federal government through the truth and

[4:15:14] Trustee Luckham: reconciliation hearings and the truth and reconciliation actions that all of us as

[4:15:22] Trustee Luckham: Canadians and all of us within local government as separate entities Canadians government should

[4:15:29] Trustee Luckham: take on these particular items as part of their work and there's about six or seven I don't have

[4:15:37] Trustee Luckham: it in front of me there's about six or seven things that the islands trust can do to support

[4:15:43] Trustee Luckham: reconciliation in canada and i would say most of those are half of them for sure most of them

[4:15:50] Trustee Luckham: actually contribute to the work that we do as a land use regulation authority through

[4:15:57] Trustee Luckham: through the colonial lens of fee-simple properties, not recognizing these are traditional lands,

[4:16:08] Trustee Luckham: unceded territory of so many nations.

[4:16:11] Trustee Luckham: So that's where this comes from.

[4:16:15] Trustee Luckham: What it is that this can enable is providing the opportunity to offer with open arms that

[4:16:28] Trustee Luckham: we want to have conversations with nations and that we are undertaking the truth and

[4:16:32] Trustee Luckham: the calls to action for truth and reconciliation and we are implementing these things within

[4:16:37] Trustee Luckham: our local government and we are we are genuine and honest about that and so you know I could

[4:16:47] Trustee Luckham: go on for a long time and I'm not going to but I think the other piece of this equation

[4:16:51] Trustee Luckham: with respect to capacity funding is fundamental to this because indeed as local governments

[4:16:57] Trustee Luckham: We need to enable the opportunity genuinely for First Nations to engage in a meaningful way, and I forget the exact language associated with that, but having the opportunity to meaningfully engage with local government on local government decisions, on land use decisions that is their land.

[4:17:16] Trustee Luckham: um and so when and actually i'll support everything that trustee elliott has said so

[4:17:24] Trustee Luckham: very well um with respect to bringing in knowledge holders and leadership into those conversations

[4:17:30] Trustee Luckham: simply territorial acknowledgements simply meeting and uh and being with each other to understand

[4:17:37] Trustee Luckham: each other's uh world and life um but every single application that comes across the desk

[4:17:44] Trustee Luckham: of a land use plan at the Island Trust goes out to referral to 29 First Nations. And admittedly,

[4:17:52] Trustee Luckham: a number of those nations don't generally respond or have a significant amount of interest,

[4:17:58] Trustee Luckham: but certainly don't have enough capacity to undertake a genuine opportunity to read through

[4:18:06] Trustee Luckham: that and provide a critical analysis on whether or not that land use application impacts them or not.

[4:18:11] Trustee Luckham: But certainly within the Island Trust area, there's a dozen maybe nations that do genuinely want to engage and want to be able to work with us so that when we send an application for some work on a piece of land somewhere, they have the opportunity to make some meaningful comments about what that is.

[4:18:29] Trustee Luckham: But they simply don't have the staff or the resources to do that.

[4:18:32] Trustee Luckham: And so that capacity funding provides the opportunity for when that referral comes across their desk, and there's mountains of them from every other local government in the area as well, that there's some funding associated with that in order to allow them to hire somebody to process referrals on our behalf, on citizens' behalf, on applications that individuals are advancing.

[4:18:57] Trustee Luckham: financing. So that's the importance and significance of that reconciliation plan

[4:19:03] Trustee Luckham: implementation. We already have the plan. Now we need to put it to work. And that's what that

[4:19:08] Trustee Luckham: $30,000 is for. I just wanted to also say while I've got the floor and I apologize,

[4:19:15] Trustee Luckham: is just picking up on some comments that there have been many cuts that got us to this point

[4:19:21] Trustee Luckham: in the budget. And we're pressing now for more cuts. We need to consider how much can we cut

[4:19:27] Trustee Luckham: before there's nothing left and throwing out the baby with the bathwater is sort of a notion that

[4:19:33] Trustee Luckham: comes to mind and you know if we think we don't have enough money to do the things that we want

[4:19:39] Trustee Luckham: to do just reflect for a moment how much money a first nation has to do the things that are

[4:19:44] Trustee Luckham: important to them with housing and families and education etc as well as fighting in the courts

[4:19:51] Trustee Luckham: to claim their land. It's easy for us. And then really picking up on, David,

[4:19:59] Trustee Luckham: your comments about OCPs are developed in communities. And I would suggest that we,

[4:20:06] Trustee Luckham: it's interesting, I made a little short list here. It's got three islands on it.

[4:20:10] Trustee Luckham: Small islands, Liskiti Island, an OCP developed in the community. Denman Island, an OCP created

[4:20:17] Trustee Luckham: in the community. Thetis Island, years ago now, created an OCP within the community, which indeed

[4:20:23] Trustee Luckham: as David articulated, bring the stuff together, hand it off to staff to legalize, make it all

[4:20:29] Trustee Luckham: sound right, and then off it goes without a whole lot of consultation and stuff.

[4:20:34] Trustee Luckham: But you know what's fundamental to a community and fundamental to OCP is when the community says,

[4:20:39] Trustee Luckham: hey, what about this? And we don't have the answer. Well, we don't know about the water on there.

[4:20:43] Trustee Luckham: We don't know about the riparian areas.

[4:20:45] Trustee Luckham: We don't know about these other things.

[4:20:47] Trustee Luckham: And we don't know about First Nations heritage sites.

[4:20:50] Trustee Luckham: And why don't you know?

[4:20:52] Trustee Luckham: And so at the community level, there's an expectation to support the applications and

[4:20:58] Trustee Luckham: the development and the lifestyles, and indeed preserving and protecting the communities

[4:21:02] Trustee Luckham: on the islands with water and sustainability and all these things.

[4:21:06] Trustee Luckham: That needs information and data.

[4:21:08] Trustee Luckham: In fact, water collection has been an issue for years and years and years, and people

[4:21:11] Trustee Luckham: always wanted the data.

[4:21:14] Trustee Luckham: Well, you know, in the last three years, I don't think I need any data.

[4:21:17] Trustee Luckham: It starts raining in December and it ends raining in March and it doesn't refresh the aquifer.

[4:21:24] Trustee Luckham: So that's my two cents today. It's more like 25 cents.

[4:21:29] Trustee Luckham: But I hope I answered the truth on reconciliation and the Reconciliation Action Plan question.

[4:21:36] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I just for the record, it's and I'm going to repeat myself here.

[4:21:41] Trustee Bernardo: Nobody's disputing the importance of reconciliation. That's not the point.

[4:21:45] Trustee Bernardo: and the energy that people are putting into their comments here deserves respect and i appreciate

[4:21:53] Trustee Bernardo: it reconciliation is important but what uh what this discussion is all about is at this late date

[4:22:03] Trustee Bernardo: given these fiscal constraints we have trying to undertake an examination of what is truly

[4:22:11] Trustee Bernardo: essential at this moment and what's required to do that to make that assessment is um in a sense

[4:22:20] Trustee Bernardo: a revisiting of the business cases and that seems to be the difference here that there seem to be

[4:22:26] Trustee Bernardo: some people who think yeah okay the business cases you know we should re-examine them let's pause

[4:22:32] Trustee Bernardo: until we do that so we can be more strategic about it and there's a contrary view which is no

[4:22:38] Trustee Bernardo: no, the area has been visited already.

[4:22:41] Trustee Bernardo: Trust Council's made these decisions.

[4:22:43] Trustee Bernardo: By definition, these things have merit.

[4:22:45] Trustee Bernardo: Let's fund them.

[4:22:47] Trustee Bernardo: And of course, the thing in the middle

[4:22:51] Trustee Bernardo: that comes out of that is it boils down

[4:22:54] Trustee Bernardo: to tax increase or not tax increase.

[4:22:58] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, really, I mean, in fairness,

[4:23:00] Trustee Bernardo: the merits of these things should be seriously examined

[4:23:05] Trustee Bernardo: long before they make their way into the budget.

[4:23:07] Trustee Bernardo: it you know and i think what you're hearing from certainly some of the newcomer trustees

[4:23:12] Trustee Bernardo: is dissatisfaction with the business cases for these things at a time when it's clear there's

[4:23:18] Trustee Bernardo: not enough money to go around and to be honest you know when you don't have a clear business

[4:23:23] Trustee Bernardo: case you can't be confident that um the project's ideals are actually going to be fulfilled

[4:23:31] Trustee Bernardo: filled by the deliverables that are being funded that's

[4:23:36] Trustee Elliott: really i have to i have to object here

[4:23:38] Trustee Elliott: because i feel like you're offering an opinion and it's not a really fair summary of the discussion

[4:23:43] Trustee Elliott: so in your capacity as chair i would like to hear from the rest of the committee and not

[4:23:51] Trustee Elliott: with all due respect not have summaries that i don't feel are representing the discussion so far

[4:23:57] Voice 18: You're perfectly intended to register that objection.

[4:24:00] Voice 18: Could you clarify for me where I've gone astray in misrepresenting the discussion?

[4:24:05] Trustee Elliott: Well, I don't think anybody mentioned that the business cases were not well supported.

[4:24:10] Trustee Elliott: We all recognize that these are carryovers from a previous trust counsel, and we are in the process of balancing these business cases.

[4:24:20] Trustee Elliott: I think Director Mobbs said that she could offer more oversight and perhaps refinement to those business cases, but I didn't hear from anyone saying that these business cases don't have merit.

[4:24:36] Trustee Elliott: So I'm just wanting to hear from the rest of the committee, and I do hear you summarizing, and I apologize.

[4:24:43] Voice 18: There's no need to apologize. You're entitled to have your views about these things.

[4:24:48] Voice 18: I think you've raised a valid point, actually, in that when I'm talking about that business case business, what's slipping in is the product of discussions I've had with other trustees.

[4:25:00] Voice 18: You're right. It hasn't been framed in that way at this meeting, but that's what I've heard.

[4:25:05] Voice 18: But it's fair enough for you to make that point. And thank you for doing that.

[4:25:07] Voice 18: Well,

[4:25:08] Trustee Elliott: if that's your opinion, then that's that's your opinion as a trustee.

[4:25:11] Trustee Elliott: I'm just saying it's not the representative of what we've expressed.

[4:25:14] Trustee Elliott: So that's totally fair for you to share that as a trustee.

[4:25:18] Voice 18: Well, thank you for that. That's fair enough.

[4:25:19] Voice 18: And I just want to parenthetically note that that's actually the kind of thing I'd like to see going forward.

[4:25:27] Voice 18: I want to see open, frank, full discussion.

[4:25:29] Voice 18: I don't want people being shy about calling each other out when they think that somebody said something's wrong or something's not accurate.

[4:25:36] Voice 18: If we're going to get anywhere to make things better, we need more of that.

[4:25:41] Voice 18: that

[4:25:41] Voice 17: and I appreciate it I genuinely appreciate it thank you trustee Bowen so

[4:25:47] Voice 6: thank you for all

[4:25:49] Voice 6: the discussion uh it did take me quite a while to put this together and you know I can only

[4:25:55] Voice 6: appreciate even more so how much it takes uh Julia and others to put it together but a couple of

[4:26:02] Voice 6: things I'd like to just reflect on you know what you know speaking um uh trustee Graham spoke to

[4:26:09] Voice 6: to the fact that external consultants are used now.

[4:26:14] Voice 6: And I think that sort of almost distances the trust from the people

[4:26:20] Voice 6: because indeed on Saturna, whenever I speak to people

[4:26:24] Voice 6: and they really, really value their OCP and how hard it was to create it

[4:26:29] Voice 6: and the work that went into that.

[4:26:32] Voice 6: And it was, you know, ordinary people sitting down together

[4:26:37] Voice 6: in different groups to address different topics exactly as trustee graham described and it's a

[4:26:44] Voice 6: thing they're quite emotional about and when the trust starts to kind of mess around with that and

[4:26:49] Voice 6: imply that there's something wrong with the ocp or it's lacking that's the thing that really brings

[4:26:54] Voice 6: people together because they really put blood sweat and tears into that so but the other thing

[4:27:00] Voice 6: I really want to highlight is we're going through this and there's a kind of a sort of a feeling

[4:27:07] Voice 6: that these things are being cancelled and completely and utterly will not happen but

[4:27:14] Voice 6: don't forget that um you know if if I look at the budget 9.1 million is spent on funding the

[4:27:25] Voice 6: activities of the Trust in salaries and expenses. Out of the things that I have put on the table,

[4:27:33] Voice 6: I think only 10, maybe 15 to 20,000 is taken out of that 9.1 million. So 9.1 million is still being

[4:27:44] Voice 6: spent on 63, 64 staff and 24 trustees. So all of those resources are still devoted to the work of

[4:27:55] Voice 6: the trust none of that is being touched none of those hours are disputed none of those expenses

[4:28:03] Voice 6: are disputed so when you go through this it's it's not about the 9.1 million it's about the

[4:28:13] Voice 6: i don't know extra consultancy and you know in many of the cases we've discussed

[4:28:21] Voice 6: trust and there isn't clarity some about timing etc you know people need more time but there

[4:28:28] Voice 6: isn't clarity about exactly what those funds will be spent on and perhaps we need more clarity and

[4:28:35] Voice 6: we need more time to reflect on that and this does buy back some time there are staff resources that

[4:28:41] Voice 6: will be recovered that can be spent on some of these activities and there are probably trustee

[4:28:47] Voice 6: resources recovered so i just want to point out that that you know there's still 9.1 million

[4:28:52] Voice 6: being spent on 63 64 people and 24 trustees uh in addition to what you're looking at here

[4:29:01] Voice 6: so you know i i think that that's i just want to remind you of that okay thank you thank you

[4:29:12] Voice 4: trustee boland trustee peterson yeah

[4:29:19] Voice 16: thank you chair and this is just to the uh

[4:29:22] Voice 16: uh, the philosophical or principal end of things. Um, and I, I, I kind of feel like I heard that,

[4:29:32] Voice 16: uh, the goal is to, uh, to reduce the size of the budget and to reduce the, the,

[4:29:40] Voice 16: the potential, uh, tax increase. And, uh, that's, that's an assumption, um, that I'm not in sure is

[4:29:51] Voice 16: sure is entirely always the accurate representation of what budgeting is about.

[4:30:00] Voice 16: um i don't think that's that's the end all it it's certainly the approach of of some individuals

[4:30:07] Voice 16: and some organizations but uh you know another way of looking at financial planning and budgeting is

[4:30:16] Voice 16: is about uh what it is we're trying to accomplish and and what it takes to get there so i just

[4:30:22] Voice 16: wanted to point out that it's saying that we're coming from an assumption that our job is to

[4:30:28] Voice 16: to reduce the size of the budget or reduce the tax uh uh draw is is it that's that's fine that's

[4:30:38] Voice 16: that's fine to say that that's some people's uh uh opinion but i wouldn't necessarily say that that

[4:30:44] Voice 16: is the job of this committee is to to reduce the size of the budget or to reduce the taxes

[4:30:50] Voice 16: i just wanted to point that out because i kind of felt like that got there was an assumption

[4:30:54] Voice 16: option overlaid there. I'm not trying to fight for one or the other. I'm just saying that both

[4:31:00] Voice 16: of those are out there. And

[4:31:04] Trustee Bernardo: in fairness, Trustee Peterson, I wouldn't want anybody to misunderstand

[4:31:07] Trustee Bernardo: you. I don't think you're also saying that the Financial Planning Committee should be indifferent

[4:31:14] Trustee Bernardo: to tax increases either.

[4:31:18] Voice 16: No, and thank you for that. And I certainly don't, I'm certainly not

[4:31:22] Voice 16: trying to say that. I'm just trying to, while we were talking about making assumptions,

[4:31:28] Voice 16: of what function is and the priorities of us

[4:31:33] Voice 16: as a group and our function.

[4:31:37] Trustee Bernardo: That's entirely fair.

[4:31:38] Voice 16: There's many, many

[4:31:40] Voice 16: factors involved.

[4:31:42] Trustee Bernardo: You're absolutely right.

[4:31:43] Trustee Bernardo: What's happening here is a debate about that.

[4:31:47] Trustee Bernardo: And you know, you're right.

[4:31:50] Trustee Bernardo: None of this stuff can be assumed.

[4:31:53] Trustee Bernardo: That's why we're having the debate.

[4:31:54] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Evans.

[4:31:57] Voice 7: Thank you.

[4:31:57] Voice 7: I just wanted to bring up two items. So I've heard people speaking about the importance of

[4:32:08] Voice 7: the various items that are on here, and I fully understand each and every one of them.

[4:32:14] Voice 7: I've also heard that there are some line items that some people are thinking, you know, maybe

[4:32:21] Voice 7: maybe they're not as a high priority for this particular year.

[4:32:25] Voice 7: So what I'm going to ask is that perhaps we can pause and go through the line items and start prioritizing them

[4:32:34] Voice 7: and see if there are any line items that are of a lower priority of urgency for this year requiring funding

[4:32:44] Voice 7: funding versus items that are of high priority that could perhaps continue moving forward

[4:32:51] Voice 7: through community involvement versus consultants or requiring large large amounts of funds

[4:32:59] Voice 7: and my second point is is that I'd like to ask that each of us go back to our various committees

[4:33:05] Voice 7: committees and take another good look at how each of these line items have been budgeted and why

[4:33:15] Voice 7: that budget is the amount that it is see if there is any further room for reduction and if not then

[4:33:24] Voice 7: we can bring it back to the next meeting in February and finalize this discussion when we

[4:33:31] Voice 7: work on finalizing the budget to go forward to trust council if if if people are open to that

[4:33:39] Voice 7: that would be great

[4:33:40] Trustee Bernardo: that's uh that's a suggestion that's worth recording and bearing in mind

[4:33:45] Trustee Bernardo: as we continue with this discussion because of course we do need to at some point go to the next

[4:33:50] Trustee Bernardo: stage of um what we do uh with this particular draft budget uh trustee luckham again well thank

[4:33:59] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much for the opportunity one more time.

[4:34:03] Trustee Luckham: I'm sort of going to take some hints

[4:34:05] Trustee Luckham: from things that you have said chair

[4:34:07] Trustee Luckham: and from other information,

[4:34:09] Trustee Luckham: but one thing that's worth noting is that

[4:34:13] Trustee Luckham: if we've hired consultants a lot in recent years,

[4:34:17] Trustee Luckham: it's because we have a hard time retaining staff

[4:34:20] Trustee Luckham: and I'll just leave that thought with you.

[4:34:23] Trustee Luckham: But in terms of Trustee Evans suggestions there

[4:34:27] Trustee Luckham: about what items we can take off,

[4:34:29] Trustee Luckham: I took the hint from you, Mr. Chair, to think about,

[4:34:33] Trustee Luckham: well, what are the top priorities?

[4:34:35] Trustee Luckham: And so I would offer at this juncture

[4:34:38] Trustee Luckham: that the top priorities from this list of items

[4:34:41] Trustee Luckham: that have been recommended for reduction

[4:34:44] Trustee Luckham: is the reconciliation action plan is a number one priority.

[4:34:48] Trustee Luckham: The policy statement is a number one priority

[4:34:52] Trustee Luckham: and the regional planning committee work

[4:34:53] Trustee Luckham: is a number one priority.

[4:34:55] Trustee Luckham: And quite honestly, the staff component

[4:34:57] Trustee Luckham: that's advised in the second half of that is also important.

[4:35:00] Trustee Luckham: So if that contributes those,

[4:35:03] Trustee Luckham: there's a top three from the first list,

[4:35:06] Trustee Luckham: when certainly the two or three of the top items

[4:35:10] Trustee Luckham: on the second list are priorities.

[4:35:13] Trustee Luckham: And of course, the Islands Trust Conservancy

[4:35:14] Trustee Luckham: is always a priority.

[4:35:16] Trustee Luckham: So I just wanted to do that top priority since

[4:35:19] Trustee Luckham: the other thing that I'd like to maybe reinterpret,

[4:35:21] Trustee Luckham: or at least present my point of view based upon

[4:35:24] Trustee Luckham: maybe some of the things I'm

[4:35:27] Trustee Luckham: Because I think that it was interesting that you started off our discussion here on this by identifying what an excellent business case Director Mobs brought to us with respect to the proposals that she brought to us.

[4:35:41] Trustee Luckham: And I think that, indeed, if this financial planning committee feels there's more work that needs to be done to justify a business case and there's more work that needs to be done in the business case,

[4:35:52] Trustee Luckham: the best thing that we could do is ask staff to come back with a revision or an update or a better

[4:35:58] Trustee Luckham: business case. Because indeed, we do need to make those decisions based upon not only the support

[4:36:06] Trustee Luckham: by Trust Council and the public for the work that they're doing, but they need to articulate it in

[4:36:10] Trustee Luckham: a way that convinces us that it must be done. And so I would say if there's an opportunity to do

[4:36:16] Trustee Luckham: that, let's do that. Those are my three remarks at this point. Thank you.

[4:36:18] Trustee Luckham: you

[4:36:19] Trustee Bernardo: thank you i don't see any more questions at the moment um although cao hudson pillar you did

[4:36:29] Trustee Bernardo: have your hand up for a while then you took it down uh do

[4:36:33] Voice 4: you have something to say oh i trust

[4:36:39] Voice 4: i see trustee

[4:36:40] Voice 12: boland up ahead of me so i i defer to her if that's thank you thank you trustee

[4:36:45] Voice 12: well actually

[4:36:46] Voice 6: you had your hand up before me so go russ i'll just wait and follow you on

[4:36:52] Voice 12: Okay, we'll toss it around. A couple of things. Obviously, we've just seen this document from a staff perspective and what the implications for the organization would be. I expect you'd want some staff thinking on that to guide or assist you in your decision making. We'll do that on the fly right now.

[4:37:10] Voice 12: I'm certainly concerned that I'm getting the thread that the business cases aren't appropriate.

[4:37:14] Voice 12: Would love some specific direction around that. This is the first I've heard that

[4:37:17] Voice 12: and as an organization we want to have the best information in front of you to help you

[4:37:22] Voice 12: make your decisions. So looking forward to that specific direction.

[4:37:26] Voice 12: A couple of the underlying premises in this. One is the concept of operational versus strategic

[4:37:35] Voice 12: considerations. And what I'd like to suggest to you is that some of the things, just in brief

[4:37:40] Voice 12: reading, are operational in nature. And though everything can be termed strategic at a certain

[4:37:47] Voice 12: level, I would suggest that the meeting administrator position, as you view it,

[4:37:52] Voice 12: don't view it as a strategic decision. We are conducting 13, 16 live, recorded,

[4:38:03] Voice 12: that we didn't two years ago and we've absorbed that function to the organization so in a way

[4:38:09] Voice 12: you're having your dinner but you haven't paid for it um so i ask you to just as you make your

[4:38:16] Voice 12: deliberations just look at that position through that lens of that's an operational question um

[4:38:23] Voice 12: the resource for administrative support i would say also has a strong operational component to it

[4:38:29] Voice 12: um meaning we've added two new we have lori end of sentence we now have governance committee

[4:38:37] Voice 12: we have an accessibility committee um and we have a need to knit together the relationships that we

[4:38:46] Voice 12: have with first nations not on a one but one-to-one basis but on a 15 to 29 with some exponent number

[4:38:54] Voice 12: in their overlap basis as well we don't have that capacity so i suggest that to the degree

[4:39:00] Voice 12: you're in agreement on where the reconciliation focus of the organization is it's lagging at this

[4:39:08] Voice 12: point so that's an operational question and and the other uh the only other point i'd make at this

[4:39:13] Voice 12: point and if um if the chair wants my colleagues to chime in on anything or get more specific that's

[4:39:18] Voice 12: great is that it's tempting and i certainly get it when you say we'll take 10 hours out of this

[4:39:24] Voice 12: staff person will reallocate it somewhere else but you wouldn't want your dentist to all of a sudden

[4:39:31] Voice 12: be an engineer and we have a collective agreement so it's an added lens to look through if you take

[4:39:38] Voice 12: 100 hours out and say go put it to something else we've got a collective agreement with job

[4:39:42] Voice 12: descriptions and various positions inside the organization those people do those things

[4:39:48] Voice 12: it's it's more than reallocating those hours across the organization there would be some

[4:39:52] Voice 12: thought needed um and it's you know round whole square peg however you want to say it

[4:39:59] Voice 12: where you simply say let's do this someone else pick up this other task when indeed they might

[4:40:04] Voice 12: be a planner instead of being an engagement coordinator or a financial manager or what

[4:40:09] Voice 12: have you so i'll just leave you with those brief comments at this point um back to you mr chair

[4:40:14] Trustee Bernardo: thank you those are constructive the uh you're quite right certainly with respect to reallocating

[4:40:18] Trustee Bernardo: resources that's not something that can be um that's not a trivial exercise that's uh that

[4:40:27] Trustee Bernardo: requires real deliberation and planning uh trustee boland uh

[4:40:32] Voice 6: just a couple of things the first thing

[4:40:34] Voice 6: is the ios trust conservancy is indeed valuable and you know the request to will have to go to

[4:40:41] Voice 6: them direct to you know no more than to any of the other committees but i'd just like to point out

[4:40:47] Voice 6: that their percentage change was 11.5 or 13.5% increase.

[4:40:53] Voice 6: And they were, you know, the request, the funding removed was, I don't know, 12,000.

[4:41:01] Voice 6: And they are funded to the tune of, you know, 1.1, 1.2 million.

[4:41:06] Voice 6: So, you know, it's not, they haven't been brought to their knees by this request, I would argue.

[4:41:13] Voice 6: you and the other thing um it has to go back to them of course but anyway the other thing is that

[4:41:19] Voice 6: I mean the one thing that bothers me about the reconciliation is that yes it needs to be done

[4:41:25] Voice 6: but it is almost so large and so mind-blowing the scale of what needs to be done described by

[4:41:33] Voice 6: different people that I wonder at our setting ourselves up to even attempt it without looking

[4:41:40] Voice 6: looking for help from outside.

[4:41:43] Voice 6: Like we are, as you said, you know,

[4:41:45] Voice 6: I looked at that matrix of who we have to consult with

[4:41:48] Voice 6: and my head just starts to spin with, you know,

[4:41:52] Voice 6: the level of referrals.

[4:41:54] Voice 6: And I come back to, you know, should we not do,

[4:41:59] Voice 6: you know, it would be better not to do it

[4:42:02] Voice 6: than to do it badly.

[4:42:04] Voice 6: And, you know, arguably 30,000 isn't enough

[4:42:08] Voice 6: And 5 million may not be enough and we can't afford that. So I would say that the senior policy advisor person should come in and make some judgment call on what it is that it's appropriate that we do and what we could afford to do and how we need to find resources to help us do whatever it is the gap is.

[4:42:32] Voice 6: And I'm not experienced in this area. I've been listening a lot in the last short while, relatively speaking, and it is important, but the scale of it and the resources needed are difficult to understand. Thank you.

[4:42:48] Voice 6: Well,

[4:42:50] Trustee Bernardo: one way of an aspect of clarifying the things that concern you, Trustee Bullen, may well be what Trustee Evans had suggested, which is you've presented an awful lot for this committee to think about.

[4:43:05] Trustee Bernardo: It has a lot of dimensions. Her suggestion of taking it back to the committee, to the respective committees for a closer analysis about this trade-off between immediate operational needs, longer-term issues, that kind of stuff, and what approach we ought to be taking with respect to the overall revenue shortfall thing.

[4:43:31] Trustee Bernardo: it's fair enough that that's a debate that everybody has to have and the committees are

[4:43:35] Trustee Bernardo: best positioned to talk about these individual things that are under their rubrics so uh that's

[4:43:42] Trustee Bernardo: a thought uh i see uh trustee luckham has something to say uh i'm hoping it's not a

[4:43:50] Trustee Bernardo: repeat of what we've heard before but uh carry on well

[4:43:56] Trustee Luckham: i'll take that into consideration mr chair

[4:43:58] Trustee Luckham: I try not to repeat. I actually realized that I left a couple of items out of my topic earlier, and it was raised by the $9.1 million that's untouched out of a roughly $9.8 million budget.

[4:44:15] Trustee Luckham: budget. And I just think about this 4%, which is what we're talking about cutting here, if I'm not

[4:44:23] Trustee Luckham: mistaken, is if I was to renovate my house and do fireproofing of my house, my resources and my

[4:44:31] Trustee Luckham: labor is all paid for and I just do it because I love it. But you need to buy materials to do the

[4:44:35] Trustee Luckham: job. I need to buy metal and screws. And this 4% of the budget is the money that the staff that

[4:44:41] Trustee Luckham: that we're paying $9.1 million to need

[4:44:44] Trustee Luckham: in order to accomplish the work that they're doing.

[4:44:46] Trustee Luckham: This is what helps make it all happen.

[4:44:50] Trustee Luckham: So I think that that's important

[4:44:53] Trustee Luckham: to realize in context of this.

[4:44:56] Trustee Luckham: And you'll be glad to know that I lost my train of thought

[4:45:01] Trustee Luckham: on the second item.

[4:45:02] Trustee Luckham: And I can just say on the reconciliation item

[4:45:08] Trustee Luckham: that if we don't do something,

[4:45:10] Trustee Luckham: then we're not, we may as well step back

[4:45:15] Trustee Luckham: from what we're trying to do

[4:45:16] Trustee Luckham: because we

[4:45:17] Voice 4: have to do something.

[4:45:19] Voice 4: Thank you.

[4:45:25] Voice 4: Okay, Trustee Evans.

[4:45:29] Voice 7: Hi, I just wanted to circle back

[4:45:31] Voice 7: to one of my earlier questions,

[4:45:32] Voice 7: which needed to go to staff for an answer.

[4:45:35] Voice 7: And that was regarding the salary increase

[4:45:39] Voice 7: where it said possible increase between 5.5 and 6.75

[4:45:44] Voice 7: and a medium of 6.1 was chosen.

[4:45:46] Voice 7: Is there room for fluctuation in there? Could that be lower? Or is it based on final hard increases? Like, oh, does everyone just get a 6.1 increase? I'm not sure how this goes. So that was my question to staff. If staff could answer that, that would be great.

[4:46:06] Voice 7: Right.

[4:46:07] Trustee Bernardo: We've had an extensive discussion up to this point. I'm sure other people, as they meditate on this business, more questions will come up, but there's a limit to what we can do today.

[4:46:19] Trustee Bernardo: day. I would ask Director Mobs now, we've given her plenty of time to sort of answer the initial

[4:46:27] Trustee Bernardo: basic question I'd asked her to examine, which is from this spreadsheet, do these numbers actually

[4:46:35] Trustee Bernardo: add up? And then, of course, there's this long list of important questions from the various

[4:46:42] Trustee Bernardo: trustees this trustee evans has just asked the most recent one so uh i'd asked uh i'd ask um

[4:46:50] Trustee Bernardo: director mobs to uh step forward to now address those questions uh

[4:46:56] Voice 2: sure thanks mr chair i have

[4:46:58] Voice 2: gone through uh the information that's been provided by trustee boland the numbers i see

[4:47:03] Voice 2: there are correct with a few exceptions uh the final item on the list related to the islands

[4:47:08] Voice 2: Trust Conservancy dollars. There's $12,800 there. Sorry,

[4:47:15] Voice 17: can we have the spreadsheet scrolled down

[4:47:18] Voice 17: so we can see that? Or am I missing it?

[4:47:21] Voice 2: No, you're right. We need to keep scrolling. It's

[4:47:23] Voice 2: the very last one in pink there. Thank you.

[4:47:26] Voice 2: So there's a value assigned there of $12,800,

[4:47:30] Voice 2: hundred dollars which is um the product of eighteen thousand dollars related to ecosystem

[4:47:36] Voice 2: mapping less fifty two hundred dollars that's funded by species at risk grant monies the amount

[4:47:43] Voice 2: that's funded by species at risk grant money is actually forty two hundred not fifty two hundred

[4:47:48] Voice 2: and so that figure should actually be thirteen thousand eight hundred on that worksheet for

[4:47:53] Voice 2: consideration okay uh

[4:47:54] Voice 2: there's a few dollar differences related to each of the staff

[4:47:58] Voice 2: staff positions, the meeting administrator and the administrative coordinator. I don't think it's

[4:48:03] Voice 2: worth fussing around with a few dollars when it comes to this conversation. We can address that

[4:48:07] Voice 2: later if needed. Otherwise, the numbers do agree to what's in the budget.

[4:48:13] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you. And of course,

[4:48:15] Trustee Bernardo: there's the many questions that people have had in the course of this discussion. Are you in a

[4:48:20] Trustee Bernardo: position to answer those?

[4:48:22] Voice 2: So I can answer some of the ones that are sort of assigned to me. I can

[4:48:25] Voice 2: can go through the ones I've been tracking. There was a question around whether or not filling the

[4:48:30] Voice 2: manager of finance and accounting position would help with some of the expected deliverables and

[4:48:35] Voice 2: work that are assigned to the other two staff positions. I don't particularly see that to be

[4:48:42] Voice 2: the case based on what I see in the business case. I haven't seen job descriptions for those

[4:48:48] Voice 2: positions. The administrative coordinator position does lift or list office procedures as one of the

[4:48:55] Voice 2: intended things to be worked on by that staff person. There would be some capacity for the

[4:49:02] Voice 2: finance team to step into that role and help out with that. But by and large, most of those tasks,

[4:49:07] Voice 2: I don't think so. I can address the question on staff increases as well as it relates to union

[4:49:14] Voice 2: increases. So the new union agreement says that next year, all union staff will be entitled to

[4:49:20] Voice 2: an increase that falls between 5.5% and 6.75. And where it lands is going to be based on the

[4:49:28] Voice 2: annualized average of BCCPI data for the immediately preceding year. And that is not

[4:49:35] Voice 2: something that we can affect. It is going to be dictated by the union agreement based on whatever

[4:49:40] Voice 2: whenever inflation lands up for that year.

[4:49:43] Voice 2: So where we're given a range,

[4:49:44] Voice 2: we have to make a determination and pick a number

[4:49:47] Voice 2: that we want to use in the budget

[4:49:49] Voice 2: for the purposes of creating an estimate.

[4:49:51] Voice 2: And so we went with the midpoint there.

[4:49:55] Voice 2: And I think those are the only questions

[4:49:58] Voice 2: that I can speak to.

[4:49:59] Voice 2: If I've missed any, I'm happy

[4:50:01] Voice 4: to try again.

[4:50:04] Voice 4: All right, thank you.

[4:50:06] Voice 4: Trustee Evans.

[4:50:07] Voice 4: So

[4:50:08] Voice 7: just for clarification, Julia,

[4:50:11] Voice 7: Julia, then the staff increase could actually be higher based on the CPI data.

[4:50:17] Voice 7: That's correct. It could also be lower.

[4:50:20] Voice 7: Yeah, I'm thinking given the changes this year, I might, yeah. Thank you.

[4:50:30] Voice 4: CAO Hudson-Piller.

[4:50:34] Voice 4: Do you want more clarity on capacity funding at this point?

[4:50:39] Trustee Bernardo: If you're able to speak to it, that might be helpful.

[4:50:41] Voice 12: Well, I'd invite Claire to do it. She's working the file right now and how it's applied.

[4:50:46] Voice 12: um uh initially i would say that we are having a number of large projects that are will be halted

[4:50:52] Voice 12: if we don't have some version of capacity funding funding in place i think of salt spring i think of

[4:50:58] Voice 12: any um significant ocp amendments that are be are going forward so this isn't uh um a concept that's

[4:51:04] Voice 12: will we will arrive at in five or ten years i think it's on our doorstep but um claire might

[4:51:09] Voice 12: be able to provide a bit more specifics trustee

[4:51:13] Voice 17: freighter or sorry director freighter

[4:51:15] Voice 5: sure happy

[4:51:16] Voice 5: Happy to. Certainly it is becoming an increasingly common expectation from nations that we offer

[4:51:21] Voice 5: capacity funding if we're expecting to use either their staff time or invite elected officials to

[4:51:26] Voice 5: engage with us. At this point, the reconciliation action plan funding is not intended for capacity

[4:51:32] Voice 5: funding for projects. That funding is intended to be within the project itself. And you'll see that

[4:51:37] Voice 5: in the various business cases you have from local trust committees. The reconciliation action plan

[4:51:43] Voice 5: funding is intended to support sort of the trust-wide activities that are being undertaken

[4:51:47] Voice 5: and some of the some of those are as yet unknown as you move into this term and we see what your

[4:51:52] Voice 5: ambitions are we'll be able to provide that in more detail but things that we might need is

[4:51:56] Voice 5: contracting some external advisors. I suspect strongly that a theme of this term is going to

[4:52:02] Voice 5: be the negotiation of protocol agreements as we more formalize our relationships with nations

[4:52:06] Voice 5: and there are bound to be some costs associated with that and associated with the hosting of

[4:52:11] Voice 5: meetings related to those agreements, as well as a myriad of other costs I could get into.

[4:52:16] Voice 5: But with regard to capacity funding, I can confirm it is an increasing expectation of nations

[4:52:20] Voice 5: and without providing it, I suspect projects would indeed be in jeopardy because you simply would not

[4:52:25] Voice 5: get the information that you need from the nations. It wouldn't be a priority for them

[4:52:29] Voice 5: to respond and then it makes it so much more difficult to provide meaningful input to the

[4:52:33] Voice 5: minister, particularly when you're advancing documents, OCPs and bylaws that need that

[4:52:38] Voice 5: that engagement record for the minister to contemplate.

[4:52:40] Voice 5: I hope that's helpful.

[4:52:43] Voice 18: It is to some extent, but I'm not clear about something.

[4:52:49] Trustee Bernardo: Again, correct me if I'm wrong about this,

[4:52:51] Trustee Bernardo: but what I'm hearing you say is that the capacity funding

[4:52:56] Trustee Bernardo: contemplated under the reconciliation plan

[4:53:00] Trustee Bernardo: is really funding to support other individual projects.

[4:53:04] Trustee Bernardo: And in a sense there,

[4:53:06] Trustee Bernardo: if you're thinking about it in a hypothetical way,

[4:53:08] Trustee Bernardo: if you've got this or that project the the funding required to implement proper consultation with

[4:53:16] Trustee Bernardo: indigenous groups uh that's in a sense a line item for that project but they're all being

[4:53:22] Trustee Bernardo: they're all collectively uh piled together under this thirty thousand dollar number

[4:53:27] Trustee Bernardo: have i got that right or i or i got it backwards no

[4:53:31] Voice 5: that's not quite right so within each planning

[4:53:34] Voice 5: project and the conservancy project that you have in front of you that the capacity funding for

[4:53:38] Voice 5: those projects is built into the project budget. I think that's in the realm of $70,000 to $80,000

[4:53:43] Voice 5: of your budget right now. The $30,000 is intended for the most generic activities. It could be

[4:53:50] Voice 5: bringing in someone external to help us with the policy around capacity funding as an example.

[4:53:55] Voice 5: We've yet to hire the staff specialists that we're going to have. And it may be that we need

[4:53:59] Voice 5: additional supports to resolve some of these questions. And it's one of these highly dynamic

[4:54:05] Voice 5: activities that we undertake and it's hard to anticipate what's going to come at us in the

[4:54:08] Voice 5: next year but i do anticipate we'll need some financial resources um to provide good advice

[4:54:13] Voice 5: to you as things develop okay

[4:54:16] Trustee Bernardo: now i'm really i really have to follow this up because i

[4:54:20] Trustee Bernardo: i'm realizing i'm really having a hard time following it uh are you saying there's something

[4:54:24] Trustee Bernardo: like 70 and 80 thousand dollars already in a sense um lodged in all the other various projects

[4:54:32] Trustee Bernardo: for the purposes of funding consultation with Indigenous groups or First Nations.

[4:54:38] Voice 5: That is correct.

[4:54:39] Trustee Bernardo: So that capacity funding is already at that level in terms of the consultation we need to undertake.

[4:54:46] Trustee Bernardo: Yes.

[4:54:46] Trustee Bernardo: That's already wired into the project. Is that right?

[4:54:50] Voice 5: Yes, which is one of the reasons I would very much encourage a prioritization of getting protocol agreements in place

[4:54:55] Voice 5: such that that can all be structured within an agreement that we have with the nation.

[4:54:59] Voice 5: So there's some upfront conversations about how we would then undertake those conversations going forward.

[4:55:06] Trustee Bernardo: Well, sure, the implementation at that level is obviously very important.

[4:55:10] Trustee Bernardo: So now we've heard a lot of remarks from the other trustees identifying this $30,000 as key to capacity funding for First Nations.

[4:55:20] Trustee Bernardo: I'm now completely confused because if we've got $70,000 or $80,000 already going in that direction for the actual projects, what

[4:55:31] Voice 18: exactly, again, is this $30,000?

[4:55:33] Voice 18: What's the deliverable on this?

[4:55:35] Voice 12: I can help out, Mr. Chair.

[4:55:37] Voice 12: Do you

[4:55:37] Voice 12: want to join

[4:55:37] Voice 18: up in there?

[4:55:37] Voice 18: Sure.

[4:55:39] Voice 12: Yep.

[4:55:41] Trustee Bernardo: All right.

[4:55:42] Trustee Bernardo: Go ahead, CAO.

[4:55:43] Voice 12: Thank you very much.

[4:55:45] Voice 12: So these funds, we have matured the reconciliation program at the Owens Trust to a certain point.

[4:55:53] Voice 12: And what we're missing is political, direct political participation in that process.

[4:56:02] Voice 12: And that is born of developing protocol agreements and agreements with nations over time.

[4:56:08] Voice 12: And that's where the work has gotten to.

[4:56:13] Voice 12: And that's at a federal level for the Islands Trust.

[4:56:19] Voice 12: We've done a lot of internal learning as an organization.

[4:56:22] Voice 12: We do have new trustees, so we have to undertake some of that work too to see that they're in agreement with the process. We have the declaration, we have the implementation plan. These funds are to fund those relationships and to establish protocol agreements.

[4:56:37] Voice 12: Next week, we're meeting with Snananas, and they have said they want to work with us to establish a long-term protocol, the protocol by which, underneath, we would be able to start regularizing business, sending OCPs, how would referrals go, what would funding look like on an ongoing basis, all of those items, which we simply don't have the answers to yet.

[4:57:02] Voice 12: at um so this is general funds for specific purposes um education development of specific

[4:57:10] Voice 12: protocol agreements and traveling across this region and getting local politicians involved

[4:57:15] Voice 12: in some of these um fundamental discussions at this time that's

[4:57:22] Trustee Bernardo: helpful so this is that

[4:57:23] Trustee Bernardo: thirty thousand dollars is about essentially funding those negotiations

[4:57:27] Voice 4: yes sir got it

[4:57:31] Voice 4: Thank you,

[4:57:37] Voice 11: Mr. Chair. As always, someone just beat me to the punch. I want to clarify what the funding in the various LTC projects for capacity for First Nations engagement was, but I believe CAO Hudson-Pillar explained the overarching thing.

[4:57:52] Voice 11: But if I can, there's a few other items I thought you're asking for clarity to some of the questions. I've been tracking questions that I may be able to provide a few minor points to, if that's okay.

[4:58:03] Trustee Bernardo: please go ahead thank

[4:58:05] Voice 11: you um i i heard talk first about local minute takers in the ltc

[4:58:10] Voice 11: administrative position um it's worth the um various members here to know that we've been

[4:58:16] Voice 11: posting for minute takers on islands for several years with no uptake and that's been through

[4:58:22] Voice 11: various means and we have not been successful we're using for example one uh very competent

[4:58:29] Voice 11: minute taker from Salt Spring for many islands and I actually I know her she's a friend being

[4:58:33] Voice 11: on Salt Spring Island and I and she can't do it forever we've been using her as much as possible

[4:58:40] Voice 11: as does almost every other organization on the island I might admit the fire department the CRD

[4:58:44] Voice 11: etc so we're at a dearth of minute takers this position adds is one of the creative solutions

[4:58:51] Voice 11: towards that to also handle vice chairs lugging around equipment that are you can talk to the

[4:58:57] Voice 11: vice chairs about how they feel about that certainly was not favorable response i'd be

[4:59:02] Voice 11: i could talk more about that but we really are having a hard time getting minute takers on the

[4:59:06] Voice 11: islands what once was a great job is no longer you know desirable it seems um so there's capacity

[4:59:13] Voice 11: funding we talked about that so i won't reiterate that um can

[4:59:17] Voice 18: i ask a question about that um director

[4:59:19] Voice 18: sermac about the

[4:59:20] Trustee Bernardo: minute taking you

[4:59:21] Voice 11: sure can since

[4:59:22] Trustee Bernardo: we um uh live stream all of these meetings uh is

[4:59:28] Trustee Bernardo: not feasible to have the minute taking function centralized from Victoria so that the person

[4:59:35] Trustee Bernardo: taking the minutes is in fact located at head office and just deals with the information that's

[4:59:42] Trustee Bernardo: coming across the live stream rather than having to attend the location?

[4:59:48] Voice 11: Certainly to some degree

[4:59:49] Voice 11: that's feasible and we've used that approach but there's also the concern of a hybrid approach of

[4:59:54] Voice 11: having in-person meetings versus combined with online meetings and the facility

[5:00:00] Voice 11: that as COO Hudson Pillar said, we haven't really paid the meal for that yet. And so this position

[5:00:06] Voice 11: LTC administrator is not just for minute taking per se, but it's setting up the equipment and

[5:00:11] Voice 11: arranging the meetings and filling all those roles that have been not supported over time.

[5:00:17] Voice 11: And I could give you several examples of how our administrative team is doing minute taking and

[5:00:23] Voice 11: using their time in a way that hasn't been, they're now taking away from other ways.

[5:00:28] Voice 11: and this is most profound in the southern and northern teams whereby we're using administrative

[5:00:34] Voice 11: staff to do minute taking and then they're not you know you could argue they're not processing

[5:00:39] Voice 11: applications through the system and they're not they're they're being drowned by fois and so on

[5:00:42] Voice 11: and so forth so um i'm not sure if i got to answer your question thoroughly but um yeah oh that's

[5:00:48] Trustee Bernardo: fine thank you you have answered my question thank you

[5:00:50] Voice 11: and and really the capacity funding was the

[5:00:54] Voice 11: the thing i want to talk about and the effects of reconciliation on planning we um i guess a little

[5:01:01] Voice 11: more fine-tuned uh response to that in terms of reconciliation we have ltcs we request them to

[5:01:08] Voice 11: include funding for for engagement with first nations that doesn't necessarily include the

[5:01:14] Voice 11: whole umbrella approach we already talked about but what we haven't talked about and this is also

[5:01:18] Voice 11: also part of the umbrella, is the effect on applications. We're finding that especially

[5:01:24] Voice 11: with rezone applications, complex development applications, we're getting responses from First

[5:01:30] Voice 11: Nations, not only asking for us to send it to them, but also asking us to pay them to do it.

[5:01:36] Voice 11: And they're now Squamish, Comox and other First Nations are starting to charge to even process

[5:01:42] Voice 11: application referrals, much like other organizations are doing. And that cost hasn't

[5:01:47] Voice 11: being factored in and it's a brand new environment of cost and so that's part of that that sort of

[5:01:53] Voice 11: funding umbrella as well so i just want to distinguish between application costs project

[5:01:58] Voice 11: costs in the planning services role thank

[5:02:01] Trustee Bernardo: you for that um that last point is actually pretty

[5:02:03] Trustee Bernardo: interesting because it's really you're referring to a uh a development of a capacity at our end

[5:02:11] Trustee Bernardo: with with that funding now we've had uh it's i see it's uh almost 3 10 we're already running past

[5:02:21] Trustee Bernardo: our meeting um period that we had set aside for this if i could ask that the agenda be put back

[5:02:30] Voice 4: up on the screen and uh i

[5:02:40] Trustee Bernardo: don't see any more questions or points that people seem to want to

[5:02:45] Trustee Bernardo: make so we now have uh a question as to what do we do with this discussion we've had in what

[5:02:53] Trustee Bernardo: direction we should be going with these revisions um there's a proposal here obviously at the outset

[5:03:00] Trustee Bernardo: that these revisions should be worked into the into the budget there's another proposal that

[5:03:06] Trustee Bernardo: we should take these this collection of proposed revisions and have the committees look at them

[5:03:14] Trustee Bernardo: before we return to reconsider the budget in February.

[5:03:19] Trustee Bernardo: Those are some of the options.

[5:03:21] Trustee Bernardo: I'm going to throw the floor open to discussing

[5:03:24] Trustee Bernardo: what do we do next with this proposal for revisions.

[5:03:31] Voice 4: Trustee Bowen.

[5:03:33] Voice 6: Would it be helpful to have a view of the calendar

[5:03:37] Voice 6: so that we can be sure that each committee will meet

[5:03:42] Voice 6: before the next financial planning meeting,

[5:03:46] Voice 6: which is i don't actually know when i need to look that up um you know just to make sure that

[5:03:54] Voice 6: you know these deliberations can happen thank you your

[5:04:00] Trustee Bernardo: point perhaps staff can simply answer

[5:04:01] Trustee Bernardo: the question for us um as to uh whether or not the other committees will have met and had a chance

[5:04:07] Trustee Bernardo: at least to discuss or have this set of proposed revisions put on their agenda um and considered

[5:04:17] Voice 12: I

[5:04:18] Voice 4: personally don't know sir maybe

[5:04:23] Voice 12: the individual staff I know the governance that's my committee

[5:04:27] Voice 12: it's meeting tomorrow so they will certainly be have that opportunity I don't know the exact

[5:04:33] Voice 12: dates of the uh the next TPC regional planning committee meeting though but maybe on the two

[5:04:38] Voice 12: directors too

[5:04:39] Trustee Patrick: regional planning committee right here all

[5:04:42] Trustee Bernardo: right well I see trustee Elliott has

[5:04:44] Trustee Bernardo: her hand up but if you could bear with us for a moment trustee Elliott so that we can simply just

[5:04:49] Trustee Bernardo: clarify this question of timing trustee Patrick you were saying oh

[5:04:57] Trustee Patrick: I just say

[5:04:58] Trustee Patrick: RPC

[5:04:59] Voice 7: is February at 1 yeah yeah

[5:05:01] Voice 7: trust programs is February 6 and

[5:05:08] Voice 4: governance is tomorrow and

[5:05:11] Trustee Bernardo: when is our next meeting here

[5:05:13] Voice 4: sorry and the Allen's

[5:05:18] Trustee Elliott: The Trust Conservancy is meeting next week on the 24th.

[5:05:24] Trustee Bernardo: Well, if our meeting is on the February 14th, then doesn't that mean that all of the committees will have had a chance to at least have this item on their agenda?

[5:05:33] Trustee Bernardo: Whether or not they actually managed to get anywhere with it is something else.

[5:05:37] Trustee Bernardo: But is that fair?

[5:05:41] Voice 4: Well, I'm not hearing anybody object to that observation.

[5:05:45] Voice 4: Trustee Elliott.

[5:05:49] Trustee Elliott: Thank you, Chair.

[5:05:50] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, I was going to make a motion somewhere along those lines that each committee and the Islands Trust Conservancy take these, maybe, can we, well, I don't see how the Reconciliation Action Plan fits in, I guess that's regional planning?

[5:06:15] Trustee Elliott: No, that'd be programs.

[5:06:17] Trustee Elliott: So do each of these budgeted or each of these proposed cuts that we're evaluating fit within a committee or the Conservancy Board so that we could debate them ourselves in committee and then submit a recommendation back to FPC?

[5:06:37] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I think that's the direction that Trustee Evans was going.

[5:06:42] Voice 4: Okay, good.

[5:06:43] Voice 4: Is

[5:06:44] Trustee Bernardo: that right, Trustee Evans? I'm going to ask you.

[5:06:46] Trustee Bernardo: She's nodding. That's the perspective. That's her idea.

[5:06:50] Voice 4: or

[5:06:51] Trustee Bernardo: her notion as to how we should handle this

[5:06:54] Trustee Bernardo: for today, at least.

[5:06:56] Voice 4: Trustee Leckham.

[5:07:02] Voice 4: Thank you, sir.

[5:07:04] Trustee Luckham: I just am turning my eye towards the remaining portion

[5:07:09] Trustee Luckham: of the agenda, but I'll also note here

[5:07:15] Trustee Luckham: about what we need to accomplish today.

[5:07:17] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Leckham,

[5:07:19] Trustee Bernardo: let's stay focused

[5:07:21] Trustee Bernardo: on disposing of this set of budget revisions

[5:07:28] Trustee Bernardo: that have been offered, let's solve that problem first

[5:07:31] Trustee Bernardo: before we move on to anything else in the agenda.

[5:07:34] Trustee Luckham: Okay, it's just a quarter after three

[5:07:36] Trustee Luckham: and so I'm just wondering about the time.

[5:07:38] Trustee Luckham: But anyway, I'll leave that to you.

[5:07:40] Trustee Luckham: So on this process here, the other factor involved in this

[5:07:46] Trustee Luckham: is not just the committee's meeting,

[5:07:47] Trustee Luckham: but as we heard from David Graham on Denman Island,

[5:07:51] Trustee Luckham: some of the LTCs need to meet and also provide input

[5:07:54] Trustee Luckham: based upon their requisition, their requests

[5:07:58] Trustee Luckham: in order to properly fill that, fill that picture out.

[5:08:04] Trustee Luckham: And so we'd want to make sure that that happens

[5:08:07] Trustee Luckham: in a timely fashion along with whatever.

[5:08:11] Trustee Luckham: Can

[5:08:11] Trustee Bernardo: we resolve that by simply having this set of revisions

[5:08:16] Trustee Bernardo: or proposed revisions circulated to all of the trustees

[5:08:22] Trustee Bernardo: so that they have notice of it. And then they can manage that as they see fit with respect to their

[5:08:29] Trustee Bernardo: LTC obligations.

[5:08:31] Trustee Luckham: Except that the LTCs need to meet to have those discussions to make those decisions.

[5:08:37] Trustee Luckham: And I know that's an encumbrance.

[5:08:40] Trustee Bernardo: Well, there's simply a time limit there. It's simply not going

[5:08:44] Trustee Bernardo: to be feasible to have every LTC meet in a formal capacity. But I think getting the perspective of

[5:08:52] Trustee Bernardo: of all of the trustees would certainly be helpful.

[5:08:55] Trustee Bernardo: And it

[5:08:56] Voice 4: looks

[5:08:57] Trustee Bernardo: like six of one half a dozen other to me,

[5:08:58] Trustee Bernardo: to be honest.

[5:09:00] Trustee Bernardo: Well, yeah, 26 possible

[5:09:02] Voice 4: input, yeah.

[5:09:04] Voice 4: Yeah, Trustee Graham.

[5:09:08] Voice 14: Thank you, Chair.

[5:09:09] Voice 14: Just for information, the Denman Local Trust Committee

[5:09:12] Voice 14: will be meeting on the 7th of February.

[5:09:14] Voice 14: So we will have a decision on that $18,000 request

[5:09:18] Voice 14: for financial planning on the 14th.

[5:09:21] Voice 4: Thank you.

[5:09:24] Voice 4: director mobs uh

[5:09:26] Voice 2: thanks jared just wanted to comment that most of the items on trustee

[5:09:30] Voice 2: boland's proposal are actually strategic plan related items that are overseen by the various

[5:09:36] Voice 2: council committees and not by local trust committees um so whether or not those committees

[5:09:41] Voice 2: will be meeting is probably more relevant to the conversation though certainly refining the local

[5:09:46] Voice 2: trust committee project dollars as it relates primarily to first nations engagement capacity

[5:09:51] Voice 2: capacity funding would matter but it's the Council committees that will have the largest impact thank

[5:09:56] Voice 4: you trustee game Graham

[5:10:00] Trustee Bernardo: yeah

[5:10:01] Voice 14: I just want to make sure the operational requests are also being dealt

[5:10:04] Voice 14: with and I'm not sure they fall under any committee uh

[5:10:07] Voice 4: response director months uh

[5:10:16] Voice 2: so those would be

[5:10:17] Voice 2: the responsibility of staff uh to be reviewing and bringing forward uh new information there

[5:10:23] Voice 2: are a number of operating items that I believed were sponsored by executive committee so I would

[5:10:28] Voice 2: would expect that they would return to executive for their input again all

[5:10:33] Voice 4: right trustee boland

[5:10:36] Voice 4: i'm going to ask you you had drafted um

[5:10:39] Trustee Bernardo: a resolution do you want to proceed with that

[5:10:44] Trustee Bernardo: resolution today or how do you want to deal with it um or do you want to defer

[5:10:49] Trustee Bernardo: it defer it until

[5:10:51] Trustee Bernardo: after there's been some further consultation uh what i'm trying to do here is figure out or get

[5:10:57] Trustee Bernardo: this group to figure out what we want to do with these proposed revisions of yours whether we want

[5:11:01] Trustee Bernardo: vote on them now or whether you're content to follow trustee evan's suggestion that this go

[5:11:06] Trustee Bernardo: back to the um committees and you know we just circulate the information with as you know all

[5:11:14] Trustee Bernardo: the trustees and that sort of thing how do you how what you're thinking on this um

[5:11:19] Voice 6: i would support i

[5:11:20] Voice 6: mean i i don't see that we could achieve anything by um forcing this through right now and you know

[5:11:26] Voice 6: know the discussion is really important and yeah i think uh what uh trustee evans proposed and now

[5:11:34] Voice 6: trustee elliott is good i would just like to see and i'll make an attempt at it you know take that

[5:11:40] Voice 6: spreadsheet and assign a committee to each one and make sure that nothing gets left behind

[5:11:46] Voice 6: and um i'm happy to take that action and review it with you and make sure that we've identified

[5:11:53] Voice 6: a kind of an action party for each of the line items with the view to having a report back before

[5:11:59] Voice 6: the next financial planning committee and the other thing I would really encourage because it's

[5:12:04] Voice 6: very difficult you know of course if you know a lot about a particular thing and you feel

[5:12:11] Voice 6: passionately about it you know you have to really look across all of the items and consider it in

[5:12:17] Voice 6: the context of others because at a certain level you're acting as part of trust council

[5:12:23] Voice 6: so you know you have to break out of that um silo is a bit too extreme but you know you have as

[5:12:33] Voice 6: somebody said earlier you know you have your hat i'm on regional planning you have your hat

[5:12:38] Voice 6: i'm on financial planning i'm on the trust council so you have to you know address the item that's

[5:12:44] Voice 6: assigned but also consideration the context of the whole thank you thanks

[5:12:51] Trustee Bernardo: that's a uh

[5:12:53] Trustee Bernardo: it's a clerical matter that might be quite helpful actually to just

[5:12:56] Trustee Bernardo: identify which items that we which committees we'd like to look at which items uh but that makes

[5:13:04] Trustee Bernardo: sense make sure things don't slip between the cracks that sort of thing trustee elliott um

[5:13:10] Trustee Elliott: i just want to offer that um there has been conversation by the executive committee and

[5:13:15] Trustee Elliott: And maybe this is for consideration of Trust Council more broadly to consider the council committees as the workhorses of the organization where work is done and they sort of own that work.

[5:13:29] Trustee Elliott: And so I would think it's appropriate to send, and that's a larger conversation, maybe not to be had right here, but this would be going in that direction that sending it back this list of proposed reductions to those committees, including executive committee, without saying how or they understand the work that they are to do.

[5:13:59] Trustee Elliott: and we can have those discussions in committee so i would support that with the exception of itc um

[5:14:05] Trustee Elliott: i think the honest trust conservancy yeah you can't really give it direction to cut the ecosystem

[5:14:13] Trustee Elliott: mapping because we just don't know enough about it so um i have a motion up there i wasn't able

[5:14:18] Trustee Elliott: to just send it directly to robert um for consideration just

[5:14:24] Trustee Bernardo: to be clear though i don't

[5:14:25] Trustee Bernardo: think we would be referring um anything as a proposal that we necessarily cut this the things

[5:14:34] Trustee Bernardo: that we're sending off to each of these committees uh i i think what we want is their input on these

[5:14:40] Trustee Bernardo: specific i mean they should be aware that the proposal has been put before the financial

[5:14:45] Trustee Bernardo: planning committee that we suspend funding for the reasons that have been offered um and what

[5:14:52] Trustee Bernardo: What we want is their input.

[5:14:53] Trustee Bernardo: What we want is their views about this and to address the comments about suspension and that sort of stuff, but not, you know, I detected that, you know, you don't want us to put our thumb on the scale.

[5:15:08] Trustee Bernardo: And I agree that shouldn't happen.

[5:15:09] Trustee Bernardo: Well,

[5:15:10] Trustee Elliott: that's, we're assuming that this council has decided that reduction in the budget is the direction we want to go.

[5:15:20] Trustee Elliott: And I'm wondering if that's a conclusion that we've reached, or do we need more information to hear back from the council committees as to whether this, some of their work programs can be adjusted and they have the conversation internally and we leave aside the, you know, we're going to raise or lower the budget.

[5:15:42] Trustee Elliott: We're not quite there yet is what I thought we decided.

[5:15:46] Trustee Elliott: We need more information.

[5:15:47] Trustee Elliott: information.

[5:15:48] Trustee Bernardo: Yes. And that's my understanding of it as well, which is that we're not in a position

[5:15:55] Trustee Bernardo: to make a decision at this juncture about these things. I mean, the discussion today discloses

[5:16:00] Trustee Bernardo: that. And no, we ought not to be saying that the FPC has made a decision that we're going to make

[5:16:08] Trustee Bernardo: these cuts. It's that this is a question that's before the FPC. We haven't decided the question.

[5:16:15] Trustee Bernardo: We want your input. I mean, isn't that, is that what you're getting at? Because I mean, I think that's what I'm hearing. I stand to be correct with this. That's what I'm hearing is the emerging consensus here. And, you know, we haven't quite decided it yet, but we're kind of groping in that direction and we will make a decision shortly one way or the other. But I think you're going to, I think there is a, the consensus is in the direction you're talking about, which is we're talking about this. What do you think?

[5:16:42] Trustee Bernardo: It's

[5:16:43] Trustee Elliott: a distinction between reviewing the proposed document versus here's an assignment you need to cut X amount of dollars from programs in your budget, which is, I don't think, what we need to do. Give this document to the committees to review so that they can ascertain whether...

[5:17:02] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I don't think we have the authority to tell people that we're going to do this.

[5:17:07] Trustee Bernardo: And first of all, as you, the point you made up before, which is that there's no consensus

[5:17:12] Trustee Bernardo: that that's what this committee wants to do.

[5:17:14] Trustee Bernardo: So all we can do is send this as a proposal that's being considered by the FPC, and we

[5:17:21] Trustee Bernardo: would like the response from these different committees about the areas that are in areas

[5:17:26] Trustee Bernardo: areas of responsibility whether you know what their perspectives are about the merits of the

[5:17:32] Trustee Bernardo: plan and we'll

[5:17:35] Voice 4: see what they say ceo hudson

[5:17:39] Voice 4: pillar uh

[5:17:41] Voice 12: briefly um obviously you're you're looking at a

[5:17:43] Voice 12: a large proposal um put forward by the trustee but there are you know as you look across the

[5:17:50] Voice 12: the organization there's the consideration of live meetings again so there are other elements

[5:17:56] Voice 12: other than simply the elements here

[5:17:59] Voice 12: that could impact the bottom line over time.

[5:18:05] Voice 12: And one of them is potentially that.

[5:18:09] Voice 12: I'm

[5:18:09] Voice 4: not sure I understand what that means.

[5:18:12] Trustee Bernardo: Like, what's the point here?

[5:18:16] Trustee Bernardo: Like, we were just talking about the referring this proposal

[5:18:22] Trustee Bernardo: for input from the committees and also from trustees.

[5:18:29] Voice 12: Correct.

[5:18:31] Trustee Bernardo: And you mentioned something about there's going to be meetings or whatever, but what's the issue here?

[5:18:37] Voice 12: The issue is you had a large proposal with all of these options associated with it.

[5:18:43] Voice 12: There could have been other discussion points around saving in the budget that these don't accomplish, such as trust council meetings, which are significant pieces.

[5:18:56] Voice 12: So I just offer that there is potentially more than what is being offered here and being asked of the committees that Trust Council could ultimately consider in terms of any objectives you might have.

[5:19:08] Voice 12: Is that better?

[5:19:10] Trustee Bernardo: Well, my recollection is that issue has been discussed pretty in depth and decided by Trust Council.

[5:19:17] Trustee Bernardo: I would certainly be hesitant to sort of bring that particular thing about Trust Council meetings back to life.

[5:19:25] Trustee Bernardo: but I take your point that there is a diff there somebody else could come up with a different set

[5:19:31] Trustee Bernardo: of proposals on how to deal with the budget but the fact of the matter is is this is what we've

[5:19:36] Trustee Bernardo: got this is what's come forward we let's recall that we urged Trust Council to give us some

[5:19:44] Trustee Bernardo: guidance at the last Trust Council meeting about how we were going to square the revenue shortfall

[5:19:53] Trustee Bernardo: with all of the work we've got on our on our table all we got back was a clear message that a tax

[5:20:02] Trustee Bernardo: increase was a bad idea people didn't want to go back to their constituents to say we're going to

[5:20:09] Trustee Bernardo: raise taxes to fund these things that's what that's all we got so we were left to this situation

[5:20:16] Trustee Bernardo: and the fact that we're a working group or should be a working group as trustee

[5:20:21] Trustee Bernardo: Elliot had mentioned, we do have some challenges with the way these meetings are structured to be

[5:20:27] Trustee Bernardo: able to do that. And yes, I take your point that there's a certain amount of arbitrariness in the

[5:20:33] Trustee Bernardo: sense of what's been identified because it's only coming from one person or a small group of people

[5:20:39] Trustee Bernardo: who've been working on this. It is what it is. People who have different views will get a chance

[5:20:46] Trustee Bernardo: to articulate them when they review the proposal and they can that's what input looks like i guess

[5:20:52] Trustee Bernardo: so fair enough though that's a fair point uh

[5:20:55] Voice 4: director mobs uh

[5:21:01] Voice 2: thanks chair i just want to

[5:21:03] Voice 2: request clarity when the committee is sending this request forward to the other committees

[5:21:08] Voice 2: for example if a committee receives the request to consider reconsider one of the projects they've

[5:21:13] Voice 2: brought forward is the expectation that they would present an amended business case if they

[5:21:19] Voice 2: identify they can do work differently or achieve a reduction in dollars. If that's the expectation,

[5:21:25] Voice 2: I think we should be clear about that. Otherwise, would it just be the responsible committee chair

[5:21:30] Voice 2: that would be coming back to financial planning committee to verbally speak to something,

[5:21:34] Voice 2: understanding what the expected deliverable is might help.

[5:21:39] Trustee Bernardo: That's an important point, how we frame the question and how the expectation we give people

[5:21:46] Trustee Bernardo: as to what the kind of answer we want or not the kind of answer but the area we would like covered

[5:21:51] Trustee Bernardo: in their answer um i don't think we're going to be able to hash that out today that's a bit

[5:21:56] Trustee Bernardo: more complicated uh my thought is um uh that let's add this to your list of things to do you

[5:22:06] Trustee Bernardo: don't have enough to do as it is so uh let's add this to your list of working it out with

[5:22:10] Trustee Bernardo: with the trustee Boland and possibly trustee Evans.

[5:22:16] Trustee Bernardo: It was her idea in the first place.

[5:22:17] Trustee Bernardo: So she's going to have to pay for it now,

[5:22:19] Trustee Bernardo: which is come up with a balanced workable arrangement

[5:22:27] Trustee Bernardo: that well, something that you think is workable,

[5:22:29] Trustee Bernardo: that these committees will be able to get their hands

[5:22:31] Trustee Bernardo: around the question and be able to come back

[5:22:34] Trustee Bernardo: with an intelligible answer in the time

[5:22:35] Trustee Bernardo: that they have available.

[5:22:38] Trustee Bernardo: So framing the case for the kind of input

[5:22:40] Trustee Bernardo: we would like to get from them.

[5:22:44] Trustee Bernardo: Just speaking personally,

[5:22:45] Trustee Bernardo: I'm content to delegate that to Director Mobs

[5:22:48] Trustee Bernardo: working with Trustee Boland, Trustee Evans,

[5:22:51] Trustee Bernardo: and any other trustee that wants to get their hands in

[5:22:53] Trustee Bernardo: on that particular exercise.

[5:22:57] Trustee Bernardo: We have other trustees who have things to say,

[5:22:59] Trustee Bernardo: so I would ask them to address that point if they can

[5:23:02] Trustee Bernardo: in their remarks,

[5:23:04] Trustee Bernardo: because that's just an attempt at a practical solution

[5:23:09] Trustee Bernardo: because Director Mobs has identified

[5:23:11] Trustee Bernardo: by something that's fairly important.

[5:23:13] Trustee Bernardo: We need this information to come back to us

[5:23:15] Trustee Bernardo: to be kind of structured and intelligible.

[5:23:17] Voice 4: Trustee Grimp, audio please.

[5:23:24] Voice 4: There we go.

[5:23:26] Voice 4: Thank you, Chair.

[5:23:28] Voice 14: Yeah, that Director Mobs,

[5:23:32] Voice 14: that's a whole another question.

[5:23:34] Voice 14: I was simply going to help with the formulation

[5:23:37] Voice 14: of this motion to move that the financial planning committee

[5:23:42] Voice 14: refer to those committees for a final opportunity

[5:23:45] Voice 14: opportunity to consider amending their budget considerations. Now, the last time, actually the

[5:23:51] Voice 14: first time that the financial planning committee met, we made some chops and we didn't ask for a

[5:23:57] Voice 14: revised business plan. We just made those chops arbitrarily. So each committee can make a reduction

[5:24:03] Voice 14: if they choose to arbitrarily. And then when it's, at least at that point, when it comes back to

[5:24:11] Voice 14: to trust council, we won't have a huge fight in our hands.

[5:24:14] Voice 14: There will always be things brought to the table

[5:24:17] Voice 14: at trust council budgetarily, that's just a given.

[5:24:21] Voice 14: But at least if the committees have the chance

[5:24:23] Voice 14: to consider making amendments,

[5:24:25] Voice 14: then at least we've covered our butts on that one.

[5:24:27] Voice 14: Thank you.

[5:24:29] Voice 4: And

[5:24:30] Voice 14: there's that, mute.

[5:24:32] Voice 4: Do we actually need a resolution for this?

[5:24:34] Voice 4: Or is it if we get, is it conceivable

[5:24:36] Voice 4: this is gonna be a matter for general consent?

[5:24:42] Voice 4: That question is for you, Trustee Graham, I'm sorry.

[5:24:47] Trustee Bernardo: audio sorry i

[5:24:49] Voice 14: believe a motion is gives clear direction to uh anyone asked to do work

[5:24:54] Voice 4: okay thank you trustee evans sorry i had to run out

[5:25:04] Voice 7: and take him pee again um

[5:25:06] Voice 7: so i i miss i missed like the last 30 seconds

[5:25:08] Voice 4: but

[5:25:09] Voice 7: i was going to answer a question that was raised

[5:25:12] Voice 7: by uh trustee elliott i believe and i wrote it in the comments i believe that the request going

[5:25:18] Voice 7: going forward is that the amount that has been requested on the line items be reviewed.

[5:25:25] Voice 7: Is it accurate or can it be reduced? Can it be deferred for a year? You know, which items

[5:25:34] Voice 7: carry priority, what's urgent to be completed this year in order to bring forward an accurate

[5:25:41] Voice 7: budget that doesn't have padding included in it um i think that's where we're trying to get to

[5:25:48] Voice 7: um and i also wanted to i don't know if we've had it put forward yet but trustee elliott has

[5:25:58] Voice 7: proposed um wording for a motion and in the comments perhaps we could move to that shortly

[5:26:06] Voice 7: shortly after everybody else has had a chance to speak.

[5:26:09] Voice 7: Thank you.

[5:26:11] Trustee Bernardo: Sounds like a good idea.

[5:26:12] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Pearson.

[5:26:15] Voice 16: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[5:26:17] Voice 16: I just wanted to just a point about referring this back

[5:26:25] Voice 16: to committees and I just want to reiterate

[5:26:28] Voice 16: that Governance Committee is going to have

[5:26:31] Voice 16: its inaugural meeting of the term tomorrow.

[5:26:37] Voice 16: and I I just kind of feel like it may be a bit of a stretch to for this committee

[5:26:49] Voice 16: to expect that that committee in its first meeting of the years is going to

[5:26:55] Voice 16: be able to come up with to hear or maybe even have the time to work on you know a

[5:27:05] Voice 16: lot of effort towards looking at this budget requested I'm not making any

[5:27:09] Voice 16: suggestion i was just trying to point out a reality that the timeline we're having a hand

[5:27:13] Voice 16: or handing a governance committee to to uh to review this is it's very very short that's true

[5:27:22] Trustee Bernardo: but uh happily um uh the line item with respect to the governance committee is a very discreet

[5:27:30] Trustee Bernardo: it's fifteen thousand dollars and the purpose that it was actually that's identified for it

[5:27:35] Trustee Bernardo: isn't just generic pocket money uh it's uh designated as potential funding against the

[5:27:43] Trustee Bernardo: contingency that um we might want to hire an outside consultant to facilitate something um

[5:27:52] Trustee Bernardo: i'll be honest given the scale of what's before the governance committee

[5:27:56] Trustee Bernardo: there may come a day when we need to consult with um experts but the first challenge of that

[5:28:04] Trustee Bernardo: committee is getting our act together and there's a lot of territory to cover through that but in

[5:28:10] Trustee Bernardo: any event the question that would go to the governance committee is very clear do you think

[5:28:14] Trustee Bernardo: you will need over the next 12 months or 11 months whatever it is fifteen thousand dollars to fund an

[5:28:20] Trustee Bernardo: expert and if the answer is yes well then we have our answer the answer is no well we've got that

[5:28:26] Trustee Bernardo: one

[5:28:26] Voice 16: yeah i i mean it's that's all fine joe and of course we'll we'll see each other there tomorrow

[5:28:33] Voice 16: but I think perhaps we're presupposing

[5:28:37] Voice 16: what the priorities of that committee are today.

[5:28:41] Voice 16: And I don't know if that's entirely appropriate.

[5:28:47] Voice 16: So anyway,

[5:28:48] Trustee Bernardo: end of my comment.

[5:28:49] Trustee Bernardo: Fair enough, but you know what?

[5:28:51] Trustee Bernardo: We got to move somehow.

[5:28:53] Trustee Bernardo: I don't know.

[5:28:54] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, what's your suggestion?

[5:28:55] Trustee Bernardo: We do nothing.

[5:28:56] Trustee Bernardo: We

[5:28:56] Voice 4: leave them out of it.

[5:29:01] Voice 16: That wasn't my suggestion.

[5:29:02] Voice 16: I was just pointing out that we're handing that committee

[5:29:05] Voice 16: an incredibly short

[5:29:07] Voice 16: uh opportunity to look at at this question uh much much different than uh even all the other

[5:29:15] Voice 16: committees okay

[5:29:18] Trustee Bernardo: thank you um trustee elliott so

[5:29:22] Trustee Elliott: i thank you chair um with all due respect i think we

[5:29:26] Trustee Elliott: do need to deal with this proposed budget um with some kind of motion to find out if it has the

[5:29:34] Trustee Elliott: support of FPC in order to frame the reductions first of all that's my sense because as the CAO

[5:29:45] Trustee Elliott: pointed out there could be other areas and I know you're from with your opinion you said well we

[5:29:53] Trustee Elliott: don't want to open that question up of of in-person meetings again but that was just an example there

[5:29:58] Trustee Elliott: could be other areas for

[5:29:59] Trustee Elliott: for

[5:30:00] Trustee Elliott: cutting so would it be helpful if a we had a vote on whether trustee boland's proposed cuts

[5:30:09] Trustee Elliott: have the support of this financial planning committee and this is what we're going to limit

[5:30:14] Trustee Elliott: ourselves to and then secondly refer that this document to those committees so that they can

[5:30:20] Trustee Elliott: make those decisions or do we want to just make a motion to broadly ask the committees and the

[5:30:28] Trustee Elliott: executive committee, those that are responsible for just to look again at the business cases,

[5:30:35] Trustee Elliott: ask staff if there needs to be more refinement, and then come back with hopefully some reductions

[5:30:41] Trustee Elliott: for the FPC. So I think we still need to find out if Trustee Boland's framing of the reductions is

[5:30:48] Trustee Elliott: the way to go, or there's another way.

[5:30:54] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I'm having a little trouble following that because

[5:30:57] Trustee Bernardo: Because I'm not sure where that goes, because the way Trustee Boland has framed it has dominated, frankly, the discussion for virtually all of this meeting.

[5:31:09] Trustee Bernardo: And

[5:31:09] Trustee Elliott: it's clear from the

[5:31:10] Trustee Bernardo: discussion.

[5:31:12] Trustee Elliott: We need to

[5:31:13] Trustee Elliott: dispose of that discussion, though.

[5:31:15] Trustee Elliott: We need to make a decision about it.

[5:31:16] Trustee Elliott: Is it supported by this committee?

[5:31:19] Trustee Elliott: We've now had a discussion about it.

[5:31:21] Trustee Elliott: um we're now proposing using this document to ask the committees to make reductions but we don't

[5:31:31] Trustee Elliott: i'd like to close the discussion on you know the proposed reductions and see if it has the

[5:31:39] Trustee Elliott: support of the committee before moving using it as an instruction an instructional document for

[5:31:45] Trustee Elliott: the committees does that make more sense well

[5:31:47] Trustee Bernardo: i thought the previous remark you've made before

[5:31:49] Trustee Bernardo: was to the effect that it wasn't a good idea to be so prescriptive to the committees and that we

[5:31:56] Trustee Bernardo: wanted to get input from them uh before this committee made a decision about it now you're

[5:32:03] Trustee Bernardo: saying the opposite I think

[5:32:05] Trustee Elliott: no no I'm saying um it's the same thing I'd like to give the

[5:32:12] Trustee Elliott: committee's discretion to make choices about their work plans and the budgets um and there's

[5:32:20] Trustee Elliott: to courses of action we could use this document and instruct them and say look at those line items

[5:32:26] Trustee Elliott: please can you make some reductions can you um is this a like use bolin's document as instructions

[5:32:33] Trustee Elliott: or leave that up to the committees to look at their budgets themselves and the projects as we

[5:32:38] Trustee Elliott: have been doing do you know no well anybody else

[5:32:42] Trustee Elliott: interpret this yeah

[5:32:44] Trustee Bernardo: well i think we do need input

[5:32:45] Trustee Bernardo: from other people but my understanding from the previous discussion we had was the idea was this

[5:32:50] Trustee Bernardo: This was going to go to those committees as a suggestion of things to look at.

[5:32:54] Trustee Bernardo: And the starting point for all of this is we've got a revenue shortfall we'd like to address.

[5:32:59] Trustee Bernardo: That's an

[5:33:00] Trustee Elliott: assumption, though, because we haven't had a vote on this document, whether it has the broad support of this committee.

[5:33:08] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, but you see, that's why I thought it was going back to those committees, because we haven't been able to.

[5:33:13] Trustee Bernardo: It's not clear there's a consensus for it, and we needed their information to help our reasoning about it.

[5:33:19] Trustee Bernardo: Well, you can use this document.

[5:33:22] Trustee Elliott: You could use the document

[5:33:23] Trustee Elliott: to frame a request for reductions, or you can use some other mechanism

[5:33:27] Trustee Elliott: to request reductions. There are other options. So I'm asking, do we have the support of this

[5:33:34] Trustee Elliott: committee to use this document, or do we simply want to ask for reductions in some other way?

[5:33:42] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I thought that was Trustee Evans' starting point was we're going to use this discussion,

[5:33:46] Trustee Bernardo: but you know what? I may have got that wrong. I don't know. Trustee, let's continue. Let's

[5:33:50] Trustee Bernardo: let's answer that question i can't answer it the group is going to have to answer it uh trustee

[5:33:53] Trustee Bernardo: bowman um

[5:33:55] Voice 6: just quickly i mean there were a couple of proposals put up in the chat session i don't

[5:34:00] Voice 6: know if everybody's looked at those and also i think trustee graham made a very good broad

[5:34:08] Voice 6: proposal which left it kind of open i mean i'm i would be the last person to say this list

[5:34:14] Voice 6: is their list if you can come up with alternatives or you know and for instance there's some debate

[5:34:22] Voice 6: over whether the Galliano office is required if people want to make other suggestions and they

[5:34:28] Voice 6: have support for those suggestions I would be the last person to say no and really this is just a

[5:34:36] Voice 6: starting point we have to start somewhere I went through what I would call the discretionary ones

[5:34:42] Voice 6: that were obvious to me so I'm not prescribing that these have to be the reductions made

[5:34:50] Voice 6: and all others excluded and maybe we could go back to the motion that Trustee Graham proposed which

[5:34:58] Voice 6: was fairly broad and then that motion would take us back to your suggestion that staff

[5:35:09] Voice 6: staff Julia and Christina and I would work together on the wording and anybody else who

[5:35:16] Voice 6: wanted to jump in work on the wording that would accompany this I see

[5:35:25] Trustee Bernardo: trustee Evans has

[5:35:25] Trustee Bernardo: darted out I'm going to hand it over to trustee Patrick and

[5:35:33] Trustee Patrick: I think you're coming around to that

[5:35:34] Trustee Patrick: I see this as a broad request this this list share it it exists but I think it would be

[5:35:43] Trustee Patrick: encouraging all the the various committees to also you know think broadly this is not the list it's

[5:35:51] Trustee Patrick: just some place to start um and i would include that we should request staff the same thing they

[5:35:57] Trustee Patrick: think they may have some ideas and suggestions if we gave them the freedom to say what what would

[5:36:01] Trustee Patrick: you cut or change if uh so it's just we're asking for further clipping uh without being specific

[5:36:09] Trustee Patrick: is what I'm hearing.

[5:36:12] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, I mean, the main goal here

[5:36:14] Trustee Bernardo: as to what a tax increase, if we can at all do it,

[5:36:17] Trustee Bernardo: you know, that's really the core of it.

[5:36:19] Voice 4: Trustee Evans.

[5:36:23] Voice 4: Thank you, sorry, I had to grab

[5:36:25] Voice 7: the dog again.

[5:36:27] Voice 4: If

[5:36:28] Voice 7: I could, if Trustee Elliot is okay,

[5:36:32] Voice 7: I would like to move a motion using her wording

[5:36:38] Voice 7: and perhaps embellish on it a little bit

[5:36:40] Voice 7: so we can move along is that okay uh yeah

[5:36:47] Trustee Elliott: that was your emotion uh originally i just wanted to

[5:36:50] Trustee Elliott: move things along so please do own it and okay

[5:36:53] Voice 7: so i move that the financial planning committee

[5:36:57] Voice 7: requests that the regional planning committee trust programs committee governance committee

[5:37:03] Voice 7: executive council i think it is and the um islands trust conservancy review the proposed

[5:37:11] Voice 7: reductions in the Boland document and propose any possible reduction for the Financial Planning

[5:37:18] Voice 7: Committee's consideration in time for the February 14th meeting. In addition, if staff could also

[5:37:26] Voice 7: review the budget for potential reductions and respond in time for the February 14th meeting

[5:37:36] Voice 7: would be and and trustee elliott has it written in the webinar chat for the most part if that

[5:37:44] Voice 7: could be grabbed we can we can start working on the wording uh

[5:37:50] Trustee Bernardo: do we want to put any language

[5:37:51] Trustee Bernardo: in there to the effect that the the object of this exercise is to um attempt to get to a zero

[5:37:59] Trustee Bernardo: growth uh budget or zero tax increase budget if possible

[5:38:06] Trustee Elliott: uh i i don't agree we have we don't have consensus

[5:38:09] Voice 4: i was going to say have we established that chair

[5:38:12] Voice 4: no i guess we haven't um yeah okay could it be a little larger please

[5:38:33] Voice 4: trustee evans

[5:38:34] Trustee Bernardo: you've got your hand up oh

[5:38:35] Voice 7: sorry i still have my hand up yeah i'm just i'm just

[5:38:37] Voice 7: reading it um to to make sure that it's being captured correctly fair

[5:38:43] Voice 18: enough i see director

[5:38:44] Voice 18: or mobs has got our hand up uh

[5:38:47] Voice 2: thanks chair a couple of notes i would refrain from identifying

[5:38:52] Voice 2: specific trustees um in the motion i would you know refer to the attached document for example

[5:38:58] Voice 2: um given that you know there it's been raised here that there may not be committee consensus

[5:39:04] Voice 2: that these reductions um should happen may want to rephrase instead of saying review the proposed

[5:39:10] Voice 2: proposed reductions, to review the identified budget areas for potential reduction.

[5:39:16] Voice 2: Language along those lines might satisfy the concerns that I'm hearing around we don't have

[5:39:21] Voice 2: committee consensus around these things. I also wanted to point out that we, as staff, we can

[5:39:26] Voice 2: prepare and would usually prepare a covering document that would go to the committee that

[5:39:33] Voice 2: would highlight this motion in it, would give some context around where it came from and sort of lay

[5:39:39] Voice 2: out what we're looking for from the committee so there's some area to provide some context in that

[5:39:43] Voice 2: way as well well

[5:39:47] Trustee Bernardo: i think your suggestion or observation that we should be scrupulously

[5:39:51] Trustee Bernardo: neutral in the language and the resolution makes sense um because we certainly haven't

[5:39:56] Trustee Bernardo: achieved a consensus or it doesn't seem that way to me at this meeting um so uh if we're

[5:40:04] Trustee Bernardo: going to go forward with this consultation with the committee business we do need to use neutral

[5:40:08] Trustee Bernardo: language trustee peterson uh

[5:40:13] Voice 16: yeah just a little wordsmithing here i think that um

[5:40:17] Voice 16: rather than saying staff could also review i think it should be uh that staff review

[5:40:27] Voice 16: um

[5:40:27] Trustee Bernardo: shouldn't can't we just put staff in the the shopping list of this along with the committees

[5:40:34] Trustee Bernardo: like just say request that staff rpc tpc etc etc that would probably

[5:40:40] Voice 4: be more elegant yes

[5:40:42] Voice 4: Yes. That's what I'm all about. Elegance. So if we can remove the second and the, that would be

[5:40:55] Voice 4: great. If we can remove the and as well. Yeah. I'm just

[5:41:08] Voice 7: going to just read this quickly that the

[5:41:10] Voice 7: financial, so that we've got the committees and staff review the budget areas for the proposed

[5:41:15] Voice 7: reductions in the attached document and propose any possible reductions.

[5:41:23] Voice 4: Any other possible

[5:41:25] Voice 4: possible reductions and um would

[5:41:35] Trustee Bernardo: it be in time the in time part i think it's like reviewing

[5:41:38] Trustee Bernardo: it's one thing and respond um in

[5:41:43] Voice 7: time for the february 14th meeting

[5:41:45] Trustee Bernardo: respond with its views

[5:41:48] Trustee Bernardo: you know in

[5:41:49] Voice 4: time for the february 14th meeting or respond with their respective views um should

[5:42:03] Voice 4: it not be five days before the

[5:42:05] Trustee Elliott: 14th meeting so that it can be made into an agenda package

[5:42:10] Trustee Elliott: uh

[5:42:12] Trustee Bernardo: that's a good point uh how about uh respond with their respective views uh by february 11th

[5:42:18] Voice 4: or february 10th and i'm

[5:42:25] Trustee Bernardo: wondering if you should work in with to whom the response goes to for

[5:42:29] Trustee Bernardo: coordination and like and respond by providing their respective views to name a staff member

[5:42:38] Trustee Bernardo: or to staff or director of admin services by february

[5:42:43] Voice 4: 10th something like that

[5:42:48] Voice 6: Maybe that can be in the covering letter. I was going to suggest that you could take out the first for proposed reductions. In the interests of neutrality, review the budget areas in the attached document and propose and comment on, would that work?

[5:43:13] Voice 7: Yeah. So I would say review the budget areas in the attached document and propose any possible

[5:43:18] Voice 7: reductions. So remove the word other.

[5:43:20] Voice 4: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can take out the any.

[5:43:30] Voice 4: More and more elegant.

[5:43:39] Trustee Bernardo: Do we want to identify to whom it goes or should we just do as Mairead suggests,

[5:43:45] Trustee Bernardo: which is leave it to the cover letter or the cover email or whatever it is?

[5:43:50] Voice 7: Leave it to the cover email. Okay.

[5:43:53] Voice 4: Director Moms may be able to tell us something here.

[5:43:59] Voice 17: Director Moms.

[5:44:02] Voice 2: Thanks. Yeah, I'm not fussed about adding language about where it goes as staff.

[5:44:05] Voice 2: We all know the flow of things internally and it will make its way to me.

[5:44:09] Voice 2: I do want to point out, though, the 10th is still too late.

[5:44:11] Voice 2: So traditionally, the Financial Planning Committee needs to go out between the 7th and the 9th.

[5:44:17] Voice 2: There is a period of time that's required to actually collate the agenda, get everything together.

[5:44:21] Voice 2: other um so i would suggest the latest um that that should be received in its final form would

[5:44:26] Voice 2: be the 7th okay

[5:44:30] Trustee Bernardo: does that create any problems for any of the upcoming meetings uh amongst all these

[5:44:34] Trustee Bernardo: groups ours

[5:44:36] Voice 7: is on the 6th so is that the trust policy committee is on the 6th we will just make

[5:44:42] Voice 7: it well

[5:44:44] Trustee Bernardo: the fact you're having that meeting doesn't stop you from discussing it ahead of time

[5:44:47] Trustee Bernardo: i guess or circulating the information for discussion at the 6th so i guess february 7th

[5:44:52] Trustee Bernardo: that it is then?

[5:44:56] Voice 2: If there, sorry, I'll just interrupt if I may.

[5:44:58] Voice 2: If there is a committee that can't get it by the 7th,

[5:45:01] Voice 2: we could circulate it as a late agenda item

[5:45:05] Voice 2: in advance of financial planning committee at any point

[5:45:07] Voice 2: up to the 14th, of course, earlier is better.

[5:45:15] Voice 4: Well, let's trustee Graham.

[5:45:19] Voice 4: Thank you, Chair.

[5:45:20] Voice 14: Yeah, Denman Island Local Trust Committee

[5:45:22] Voice 14: meets on the 7th, so it will be a late item,

[5:45:25] Voice 14: but it'll be succinct.

[5:45:31] Voice 4: So what's the date we're going to put on this resolution?

[5:45:35] Voice 4: The 7th.

[5:45:36] Voice 4: 7th, okay.

[5:45:39] Voice 6: What about a deadline?

[5:45:40] Voice 6: We don't have to have it in the agenda,

[5:45:42] Voice 6: but we need to get this out by whatever it is we send out.

[5:45:47] Voice 6: We need to get it out before,

[5:45:50] Voice 6: and I don't know what meetings there are, say, today is the 18th.

[5:45:57] Voice 6: Well, the Governance Committee are going to have something

[5:46:00] Voice 6: very informal sent to them, I suppose,

[5:46:02] Voice 6: or you will all take it to the table with you tomorrow.

[5:46:05] Voice 6: but um maybe we can discuss this offline uh julia and christina and i and anybody else

[5:46:13] Voice 6: i'm just thinking ahead

[5:46:14] Voice 4: okay so are we taking off the um two x yeah right and we'll leave it

[5:46:33] Voice 4: to

[5:46:33] Trustee Bernardo: staff i guess to shepherd the responses uh assuming that they come and uh with respect to

[5:46:39] Trustee Bernardo: the comment about the governance committee you're right i mean we don't have time to

[5:46:46] Trustee Bernardo: to really send anything to the committee.

[5:46:49] Trustee Bernardo: That's simply just going to have to come up

[5:46:50] Trustee Bernardo: as a late on the fly item that we discussed tomorrow.

[5:46:54] Voice 4: Okay.

[5:46:59] Voice 7: Okay, so shall I read this out

[5:47:02] Voice 7: and put the motion on the floor?

[5:47:06] Voice 4: Your motion.

[5:47:07] Voice 7: Okay.

[5:47:08] Voice 4: I see a staff hand up there.

[5:47:12] Trustee Bernardo: I don't see a staff hand.

[5:47:15] Trustee Bernardo: Sorry,

[5:47:15] Voice 1: Mr. Chair, I have my hand up.

[5:47:18] Voice 1: It's because I do

[5:47:18] Voice 1: not have a digital hand

[5:47:20] Voice 1: when I'm sharing my screen.

[5:47:22] Voice 1: so at that time all i can do is wave i just wanted to um make sure the committee is aware that

[5:47:30] Voice 1: attached documents not a very effective description and you might want to replace

[5:47:36] Voice 1: that with a few words so that anyone reading this motion can understand what you're referring to

[5:47:42] Voice 1: does

[5:47:45] Voice 4: the uh does this document actually have a um a title yeah it does it says budget revision

[5:47:59] Trustee Patrick: Revision January 18th, 2023.

[5:48:02] Voice 4: Can we call it that?

[5:48:06] Voice 4: It's not

[5:48:07] Trustee Luckham: really a budget revision.

[5:48:09] Trustee Luckham: It's a proposal from a member of the bill.

[5:48:12] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, review the budget areas

[5:48:13] Trustee Bernardo: in the budget revision proposal,

[5:48:18] Voice 4: dated January, whatever, I guess today's date.

[5:48:26] Voice 4: You know, the only trouble with that is that

[5:48:29] Voice 4: it's easy to go to an assumption that the FPC owns this.

[5:48:36] Voice 4: Well, it's, you know, we could go on forever.

[5:48:38] Voice 4: i'd

[5:48:39] Trustee Bernardo: be you know

[5:48:39] Voice 4: i don't know how else you ask

[5:48:40] Voice 4: the question right you

[5:48:44] Voice 6: can put in proposed by a trustee

[5:48:47] Voice 6: and discussed you can just say

[5:48:51] Voice 4: in the uh list provided yeah sorry to interrupt well

[5:49:01] Voice 4: the list

[5:49:02] Trustee Bernardo: provided is no different than attached document it's not specif it's not it's not specific and

[5:49:07] Trustee Bernardo: i understand the point that if you're going to have a resolution you don't want any ambiguity

[5:49:12] Trustee Bernardo: about you know what's supposed to be attached yeah

[5:49:18] Trustee Luckham: the ambiguity is in the

[5:49:19] Trustee Luckham: title budget revision it needs to be budget revision from a trustee can we

[5:49:26] Voice 7: call it then the the suggested budget revision list because

[5:49:35] Voice 4: we didn't want to

[5:49:36] Voice 4: name names right no again

[5:49:41] Trustee Elliott: it's not we don't want to infer that this is owned

[5:49:44] Trustee Elliott: by fpc because there isn't agreement that this was the framework so it's just a list of suggested

[5:49:51] Trustee Elliott: i don't even like the word suggested because it implies that we suggested it as a body

[5:50:02] Trustee Elliott: um even in the

[5:50:04] Trustee Elliott: draft budget no drafts i don't

[5:50:06] Voice 6: know is

[5:50:08] Voice 7: it possible just to leave this

[5:50:09] Voice 7: Trustee suggested

[5:50:10] Voice 7: budget revision list.

[5:50:12] Voice 6: Could we leave this statement very broad and in the covering letter explain?

[5:50:18] Voice 6: So we're back to what Trustee Graham suggested.

[5:50:20] Voice 6: Leave it very broad and then in the covering letter say there was a proposal presented by a single trustee.

[5:50:28] Voice 6: This is the list which might be of interest.

[5:50:32] Voice 6: And it was discussed extensively and it triggered this request to go back to you.

[5:50:37] Voice 6: for by

[5:50:39] Trustee Bernardo: saying staff review the budget areas in the draft budget revision list or

[5:50:49] Trustee Bernardo: or whatever draft budget revision proposed by a trustee to the fpc

[5:50:58] Voice 4: on january 18th

[5:51:02] Voice 4: yeah i think it's a proposed by a trustee and

[5:51:14] Trustee Bernardo: let's really be clear about this because it's

[5:51:16] Trustee Bernardo: It's obvious that there's people here who don't like the idea and don't want the fingerprints of the organization all over it.

[5:51:23] Trustee Bernardo: How about review the budget areas in the draft revision list proposed by a trustee on January 18, 2023, and not yet

[5:51:32] Voice 4: voted upon by the FPC?

[5:51:46] Voice 4: Does that work?

[5:51:53] Voice 4: I think we're clear now.

[5:51:56] Voice 7: Okay.

[5:51:57] Voice 7: So shall I read it again?

[5:51:58] Voice 7: Less elegant, though.

[5:52:01] Voice 7: All right.

[5:52:02] Voice 7: I think clarity is better than that.

[5:52:05] Voice 7: I move that the Financial Planning Committee request

[5:52:08] Voice 7: that the RPC, TPC, GC, EC, ITC and staff

[5:52:14] Voice 7: review the budget areas in the draft budget revision list

[5:52:17] Voice 7: proposed by a trustee on January 18th, 2023

[5:52:20] Voice 7: and not yet voted on by the FPC

[5:52:23] Voice 7: and propose possible reductions for FPC's consideration

[5:52:26] Voice 7: and respond with their respective views

[5:52:28] Voice 7: by February 7th, 2023.

[5:52:43] Voice 4: no i think graham has seconded it is that is that right i haven't seen that do we have a second from

[5:52:52] Voice 4: trustee graham trustee graham you're seconding yes all right yes

[5:53:04] Voice 14: i am seconding

[5:53:05] Trustee Bernardo: all right

[5:53:07] Trustee Bernardo: now we've formally i suppose we're this is now up for debate but we've been debating our brains

[5:53:12] Trustee Bernardo: out on it i think we've kind of covered the territory unless i hear otherwise i'm going

[5:53:16] Trustee Bernardo: going to put it up for a vote all right we're going to vote

[5:53:19] Voice 4: on it can i have a show of hands

[5:53:21] Voice 4: please the motion appears to have passed so there we go good

[5:53:36] Trustee Bernardo: uh let's return to the agenda time's

[5:53:39] Trustee Bernardo: flying here we need to uh take care of the rest of the business but before we do that i want to

[5:53:45] Trustee Bernardo: thank everybody for what i consider to be a productive discussion um the fact that people

[5:53:50] Trustee Bernardo: have strong views about this and the fact that they disagree about things and that we're putting

[5:53:56] Trustee Bernardo: those agreements on disagreements on the table and hashing that out that's what this work is

[5:54:02] Trustee Bernardo: supposed to look like so thank you for that i really do appreciate it because um real deliberation

[5:54:11] Trustee Bernardo: not just rubber stamping stuff is what we're supposed to do whatever happens to this who

[5:54:15] Trustee Bernardo: knows but we're doing our job when we air the stuff out and we wrangle over we're not supposed

[5:54:22] Trustee Bernardo: to be an agreement society we actually have to make political decisions okay now i'll park that

[5:54:28] Trustee Bernardo: little lecture and move on to the next item special tax requisition request included for

[5:54:34] Trustee Bernardo: information only no action required until the consultation is completed uh by general consent

[5:54:42] Trustee Bernardo: i'm going to say that that is um that represents a view of this particular meeting and we'll move

[5:54:48] Trustee Bernardo: on to the next item 8.4 we budget public consultation we hashed this out last time and

[5:54:56] Trustee Bernardo: to a certain extent went in circles but we're faced with this dilemma that it is a little odd

[5:55:03] Trustee Bernardo: to ask for for input from the public before we actually even have a position uh so

[5:55:10] Voice 4: uh what do

[5:55:15] Voice 4: we do about this budget consultation business do we even

[5:55:17] Trustee Bernardo: bother there throw something else that's

[5:55:22] Trustee Bernardo: provocative out there for you to consider oh boy trustee leckham gee i'm surprised

[5:55:28] Voice 4: to hear from you

[5:55:28] Voice 4: peter go ahead uh it's convenient your sound is off but you

[5:55:37] Trustee Bernardo: really should turn it on

[5:55:37] Trustee Luckham: yeah thank

[5:55:39] Trustee Luckham: you very much i'll try not to take that in the wrong way um um but um certainly there's a good

[5:55:45] Trustee Luckham: question there that was raised about whether or not we go out to consultation at all or not we've

[5:55:50] Trustee Luckham: gotten into the habit over the last number of years to do that and certainly we've received

[5:55:54] Trustee Luckham: input for consideration. To your question, how do we take out a budget that we haven't decided on?

[5:56:01] Trustee Luckham: The whole idea is actually to put the entire package on the table and gather support or not

[5:56:08] Trustee Luckham: for the various concepts. And then ideally, when we come back for the final deliberation, we say,

[5:56:15] Trustee Luckham: well, these people supported this and other people didn't support that. So even those concepts that

[5:56:20] Trustee Luckham: that may not necessarily be supported by FPC.

[5:56:23] Trustee Luckham: I think the reason for public consultation

[5:56:26] Trustee Luckham: is to garner what the community thinks

[5:56:29] Trustee Luckham: is as important and valuable.

[5:56:31] Trustee Luckham: So there is value,

[5:56:33] Trustee Luckham: but whether or not we want to do it or not,

[5:56:35] Trustee Luckham: it's certainly been discussed in the past

[5:56:38] Trustee Luckham: that we do this every year

[5:56:39] Trustee Luckham: and don't we already know what people think?

[5:56:41] Trustee Luckham: Not necessarily so.

[5:56:44] Trustee Bernardo: Well, Peter, on that ground though,

[5:56:46] Trustee Bernardo: it sounds like if we're comfortable sending stuff out

[5:56:50] Trustee Bernardo: for public to comment on that the FPC hasn't necessarily agreed upon it sounds like we could

[5:56:56] Trustee Bernardo: send out that draft budget that as drafted together with trustee Bowen's document and ask

[5:57:02] Trustee Bernardo: the public to comment on that as well as the budget I mean you could I don't know I mean

[5:57:11] Trustee Bernardo: thoughts about that or I see trustee Evans has something to say here go ahead trustee Evans

[5:57:18] Trustee Bernardo: I

[5:57:19] Voice 7: was just thinking our next meeting is on February 14th we would have a we could have a

[5:57:25] Voice 7: shortened window for public constant consultation after we've heard back from the various committees

[5:57:33] Voice 7: made adjustments as needed and then send it out that would be as close to an agreed upon budget

[5:57:42] Voice 7: it as we could get to and still involve and still you know give give the public a chance to have

[5:57:50] Voice 7: a review of it prior to adoption at the march trust council meeting do

[5:57:57] Voice 4: we have other views

[5:57:57] Voice 4: any responses to that suggestion trustee

[5:58:03] Voice 17: elliot um

[5:58:05] Trustee Elliott: i think the risk perhaps to consider is whether

[5:58:10] Trustee Elliott: Whether receiving more public input as a new council and as we're trying to find our feet might muddy the water even more.

[5:58:22] Trustee Elliott: I think we've got a really good broad representative council and there's certainly some strong views on council about fiscal responsibility.

[5:58:31] Trustee Elliott: So I'd almost say I put my confidence in the council that was elected personally.

[5:58:38] Trustee Elliott: personally and um i think it might just make what's already proving to be a somewhat

[5:58:45] Trustee Elliott: difficult process it could uh make it even more muddy um but i that's just

[5:58:53] Trustee Bernardo: or conversely it could

[5:58:55] Trustee Bernardo: be uh enormously clarifying don't you think trustee elliott it

[5:58:58] Trustee Elliott: could be it's my perspective

[5:59:00] Trustee Elliott: it could be just throwing the doors open to go oh wait a minute let's review everything all over

[5:59:05] Trustee Elliott: over again and will we have the time to do that is there going to be if there's just three weeks

[5:59:10] Trustee Elliott: before March Council is that actually enough time to to consider everything and so that makes a

[5:59:18] Trustee Elliott: public consultation essentially worthless if we're not truly going to consider the views that are

[5:59:22] Trustee Elliott: offered.

[5:59:26] Voice 17: Trustee Patrick oh sorry Trustee Bowman. Oh

[5:59:30] Voice 6: thanks well I'm something of an expert on this

[5:59:36] Voice 6: budget review process and public engagement I'm looking at the objectives in the document

[5:59:42] Voice 6: that describes the scope or the I forget what it's called now and the objectives are very broad and

[5:59:50] Voice 6: they don't speak to asking people very specific questions about the budget they're create

[5:59:54] Voice 6: engagement materials educate the public increase them and

[6:00:00] Voice 6: the number of people participating provide engagement opportunities that solicit public

[6:00:05] Voice 6: input on community priorities and service levels um the difficulty i have is that we go out to

[6:00:13] Voice 6: people and we solicit information and it comes back in you know line pages and pages of comments

[6:00:21] Voice 6: there's very very little opportunity to digest it and we solicit information about a budget

[6:00:28] Voice 6: and the control that we have over the size of that budget is extremely limited

[6:00:33] Voice 6: and people have the false impression that they're actually able to, you know, change that budget.

[6:00:41] Voice 6: So I don't see the value of it right now in this context,

[6:00:46] Voice 6: but I do see the value of later in the year perhaps doing something shorter and more succinct.

[6:00:54] Voice 6: and so i would see that we might just um muddy the water still further at this juncture

[6:01:03] Voice 6: so

[6:01:05] Trustee Bernardo: you're in favor of deferring it um uh the decision at least trustee patrick

[6:01:11] Trustee Patrick: yes i'm building

[6:01:13] Trustee Patrick: on exactly what trustee bowen just said most municipalities go out in the spring and it's a

[6:01:19] Trustee Patrick: a very different style survey and i think by and it's designed so that it's input into the budget

[6:01:27] Trustee Patrick: process uh giving you direction sort of the where where the public is expecting you to do

[6:01:33] Trustee Patrick: more things or less things or what quality of service are you providing in these areas

[6:01:39] Trustee Patrick: um i think i think waiting and doing a survey that serves us better with this trust council

[6:01:45] Trustee Patrick: getting kind of its feet on the ground and deciding to deal with some of these bigger

[6:01:49] Trustee Patrick: bigger bigger issues about processes and you know strategic directions and things like that

[6:01:55] Trustee Patrick: that we in the spirit of saving money now sending out a you know a very difficult survey this is not

[6:02:04] Trustee Patrick: easy for the average person to follow what and uh waiting and doing a better one later uh or you

[6:02:10] Trustee Patrick: know that will inform next year's budget process better all right

[6:02:15] Trustee Patrick: early very early trustee evans

[6:02:18] Voice 4: I'm

[6:02:20] Voice 7: just going to play Deadpool's advocate on this one. As a new council stepping in, I worry about public views on the new council if we don't put the survey out, if we don't release the budget as previous councils have done year over year.

[6:02:39] Voice 7: year, it may be perceived that we are not being as transparent as the previous councils

[6:02:44] Voice 7: have been. Another way that we could tackle it would be rather than a survey releasing

[6:02:51] Voice 7: the budget, but with some caveats to show where the major increases came from that were

[6:03:00] Voice 7: not within our control, such as the contracted wage increases, et cetera, very high level

[6:03:08] Voice 7: rather than just the complete budget, which is very difficult for most people to review and

[6:03:12] Voice 7: understand, give the highlights with the uncontrolled increases to justify the changes.

[6:03:20] Voice 7: Just some thoughts.

[6:03:22] Trustee Bernardo: Fair enough, though. There's a difference between public consultation and

[6:03:26] Trustee Bernardo: transparency. Your transparency point is an important one. The public is entitled to see

[6:03:32] Trustee Bernardo: what we're doing here. Having said that, this is a work in progress, as people are saying,

[6:03:39] Trustee Bernardo: And, you know, we're really, you know, we haven't made up our own minds. So the public consultation is a little odd in those circumstances. So are you, Trustee Evans, are you contemplating that we perhaps like post the budget with some commentary and discussion of how, where we're at, how we've gotten to this point on the website and just leave it at that just for the sake of transparency?

[6:03:59] Trustee Bernardo: transparency or, I mean, you don't have to consult to be transparent. Consulting is actually

[6:04:05] Trustee Bernardo: getting somebody's opinion. Transparency is letting people know what you've been doing.

[6:04:10] Trustee Bernardo: What did you have? I mean, do you have an idea about how we could do that?

[6:04:13] Voice 7: I was thinking after the March meeting, once we've finalized our position in the budget

[6:04:19] Voice 7: and the committees have had a chance to see if there's any further reductions that are feasible

[6:04:23] Voice 7: at that point for public transparency,

[6:04:26] Voice 7: having the draft budget put on the website

[6:04:32] Voice 7: or released, however, with a list of items,

[6:04:38] Voice 7: staff salary increases have result,

[6:04:40] Voice 7: have captured this much of the increase,

[6:04:43] Voice 7: should there still be one,

[6:04:45] Voice 7: and I anticipate that there will be, those types of things.

[6:04:48] Voice 4: Okay, go see Peterson.

[6:04:53] Voice 4: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[6:04:54] Voice 4: I

[6:04:55] Voice 16: tend to take the point and agree that when we're talking about trimming the budget and we're contemplating a consultation process that's viewed variously as perhaps not being terribly effective or difficult to understand,

[6:05:16] Voice 16: that deferral might be the best approach at this point.

[6:05:22] Voice 16: And I do take the trustee Evans point about transparency.

[6:05:27] Voice 16: I think that's extremely important.

[6:05:31] Voice 16: But at this moment, I am satisfied to defer the decision

[6:05:37] Voice 16: at least till our next FPC meeting.

[6:05:40] Voice 16: Thank you.

[6:05:41] Voice 4: Trustee Bowling.

[6:05:44] Voice 6: Well, I was just going to say something quickly

[6:05:46] Voice 6: but I'm going through the content of the survey and on you know with one eye hat on it's all about

[6:05:53] Voice 6: the numbers in the budget but with another hat on there are open questions about do you want to

[6:05:59] Voice 6: spend more on land use planning do you want to spend less on this and I think that the other

[6:06:06] Voice 6: committees could contribute to reviewing the content and making this a better survey early

[6:06:13] Voice 6: in the budget cycle, as suggested by Trustee Patrick,

[6:06:18] Voice 6: you know, that all committees look at this with a view

[6:06:21] Voice 6: to gathering information about what we're doing

[6:06:24] Voice 6: and what people want us to do.

[6:06:26] Voice 6: So I would say maybe do what Trustee Evans suggested,

[6:06:31] Voice 6: which is a sort of a transparency thing, keep it simple.

[6:06:35] Voice 6: And then later, as suggested by Trustee Patrick,

[6:06:39] Voice 6: do a better kind of survey about you know the trust as a whole and what it's doing thank you

[6:06:48] Voice 6: so

[6:06:48] Trustee Bernardo: really you're supporting the idea of getting um if i hear you right you're supporting the idea

[6:06:53] Trustee Bernardo: of getting the input at the beginning of the budget cycle rather than at the end absolutely

[6:06:59] Voice 6: sure and it's not just about the budget and the numbers it's about it's almost about strategies

[6:07:05] Voice 6: and plans yeah thanks right

[6:07:07] Trustee Bernardo: priorities um uh director freighter you had a comment um simply

[6:07:14] Voice 5: wish to comment on the notion that you could undertake a survey after your next fpc meeting

[6:07:18] Voice 5: to inform council that is just not a workable proposition um the trust council agenda is due

[6:07:23] Voice 5: to executive three days after your meeting so just wanted to advise you of that well we may

[6:07:29] Trustee Bernardo: well be headed into a situation where we don't have a survey because we really don't have

[6:07:33] Trustee Bernardo: have intelligible questions, frankly, to ask the public,

[6:07:36] Trustee Bernardo: and we may be reduced to the situation

[6:07:39] Trustee Bernardo: of trying to be as transparent as possible,

[6:07:44] Trustee Bernardo: but we're not in a position to do it today, that's for sure.

[6:07:46] Trustee Bernardo: That's what it looks like now.

[6:07:48] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Peterson?

[6:07:52] Voice 16: Yeah, just on the point raised

[6:07:55] Voice 16: about starting consultation later in the spring,

[6:08:00] Voice 16: which I just wanted to sort of reflect

[6:08:03] Voice 16: that one of the governance report recommendations

[6:08:07] Voice 16: was about budgeting and planning.

[6:08:11] Voice 16: And we had been brought up at a couple of trust councils,

[6:08:15] Voice 16: the sort of more common municipal approach.

[6:08:19] Voice 16: And in fact, I think provincial approach was also mentioned

[6:08:24] Voice 16: about early in the new budget process

[6:08:28] Voice 16: doing some public consultation.

[6:08:31] Voice 16: and it if that's in fact where trust council wants to move then i think this is sort of a step in

[6:08:38] Voice 16: that direction thank

[6:08:40] Trustee Bernardo: you i don't see any further comments um here i am i'm going to nobly try to

[6:08:47] Trustee Bernardo: introduce some efficiency here do we have general consent to defer

[6:08:52] Trustee Bernardo: a decision with respect to budget what kind of budget public engagement we engage in at all

[6:09:01] Trustee Bernardo: defer simply just defer this item to the next meeting could

[6:09:07] Trustee Elliott: we not just have a vote chair

[6:09:08] Trustee Elliott: um

[6:09:09] Trustee Bernardo: well we could have a vote but um is

[6:09:13] Trustee Elliott: there well there's a recommendation that

[6:09:15] Trustee Elliott: we approve and if it fails then we just don't do the survey yes

[6:09:22] Trustee Bernardo: i'm just trying to i i i confess

[6:09:24] Trustee Bernardo: i'm trying to negotiate my way through the um distinction between when a resolution is necessary

[6:09:29] Trustee Bernardo: and when we can have general consent.

[6:09:32] Trustee Bernardo: The reason I suggested general consent

[6:09:34] Trustee Bernardo: is I didn't hear anybody supporting the idea that we do it.

[6:09:37] Trustee Bernardo: So I don't know, I'm happy to do either one.

[6:09:39] Trustee Bernardo: If somebody's got a resolution in mind,

[6:09:41] Trustee Bernardo: by all means, put it forward.

[6:09:44] Trustee Elliott: When it says request for decision,

[6:09:46] Trustee Elliott: I believe that's we need to make a decision.

[6:09:49] Trustee Elliott: Is that right?

[6:09:51] Trustee Bernardo: Well, this is one of those occasions

[6:09:53] Trustee Bernardo: where I'm actually gonna ask staff for its input.

[6:09:55] Trustee Bernardo: And what do you know, there's Director Mobb.

[6:09:57] Trustee Bernardo: She's actually got her hand up.

[6:09:58] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you, go ahead.

[6:10:01] Voice 2: uh so when there is a request for a decision for the committee uh a motion is always appreciated

[6:10:06] Voice 2: um that does not mean that the committee needs to follow the recommended motion that's there

[6:10:11] Voice 2: if the committee wishes to defer an item certainly a motion can be put on the floor

[6:10:15] Voice 2: and voted on to defer something so that would be appropriate as well all

[6:10:21] Trustee Bernardo: right can uh does

[6:10:22] Trustee Bernardo: somebody have a resolution that they're prepared to put forward that the financial planning

[6:10:26] Trustee Bernardo: planning committee defer the revised 2023 budget

[6:10:31] Trustee Bernardo: public consultation project charter and direct and period

[6:10:36] Voice 4: or something like that.

[6:10:41] Voice 4: Trustee Locke.

[6:10:46] Voice 4: Audio please.

[6:10:49] Voice 4: I

[6:10:50] Trustee Luckham: guess the direction from director Freight

[6:10:51] Trustee Luckham: or the suggestion from director Freighter there was

[6:10:54] Trustee Luckham: that if we don't do the consultation now,

[6:10:57] Trustee Luckham: there will not be enough time at our next meeting.

[6:10:59] Trustee Luckham: So deferring it seems to be doesn't,

[6:11:04] Trustee Luckham: there's no point in us talking about it at our next meeting

[6:11:06] Trustee Luckham: because there's an adequate time to do a public survey.

[6:11:09] Trustee Luckham: So it'd be better at this point in time

[6:11:11] Trustee Luckham: to simply not conduct a public survey.

[6:11:15] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Evans.

[6:11:17] Voice 7: So if this request is purely for the public survey,

[6:11:21] Voice 7: then yes, I'm in agreeance.

[6:11:23] Voice 7: If this is for any additional transparency going forward,

[6:11:28] Voice 7: then it could be tabled until the next meeting.

[6:11:33] Trustee Bernardo: Well, what I've heard from Trustee Luckham

[6:11:35] Trustee Bernardo: and trustee elliott is we actually have the question before us as to whether or not we do

[6:11:39] Trustee Bernardo: the survey or not and director freighter has said it's now or never basically we're not ready i don't

[6:11:47] Trustee Bernardo: hear anybody particularly interested in doing the survey so uh you might be right that the the

[6:11:54] Trustee Bernardo: question of of doing a different form of public engagement after we've got our ducks in a row

[6:12:01] Trustee Bernardo: can simply just be deferred and we can simply deal with that later without i think

[6:12:05] Trustee Bernardo: any resolution perhaps what we need is a resolution just have a straight up and down

[6:12:10] Trustee Bernardo: vote on whether or not we do this or not uh chrissy elliott yeah

[6:12:16] Trustee Elliott: i i would um look at that

[6:12:19] Trustee Elliott: second alternative i move and i'm willing to put this on the floor i that um financial planning

[6:12:26] Trustee Elliott: committee does not initiate public engagement regarding the 2023-24 draft budget public

[6:12:34] Trustee Bernardo: public engagement or public consultation oh yeah that's

[6:12:37] Trustee Elliott: right um thank you public consultation so

[6:12:43] Trustee Elliott: if we could change that to public consultation

[6:12:48] Voice 7: could we say survey instead um I think the survey

[6:12:54] Voice 7: not a public

[6:12:56] Trustee Elliott: but well how about we just say does not initiate a budget consultation survey for the

[6:13:04] Trustee Elliott: 2023-24 budget using the language from number

[6:13:10] Voice 4: one uh so you're

[6:13:13] Trustee Bernardo: saying what the financial

[6:13:15] Trustee Bernardo: financial planning committee um does not approve well

[6:13:20] Trustee Elliott: we have choices and you are saying that most

[6:13:24] Trustee Elliott: people don't seem to yeah we're just voting on not initiating the survey we could right somebody else

[6:13:29] Trustee Elliott: could put a motion forward to initiate the survey okay

[6:13:34] Trustee Bernardo: uh what is do we have a motion somewhere

[6:13:37] Trustee Bernardo: somewhere somebody trustee evans the

[6:13:40] Voice 12: motion was just made i believe well

[6:13:45] Trustee Bernardo: i've lost track of the

[6:13:46] Trustee Bernardo: language i'm afraid i'm sorry about that perhaps i could uh let's

[6:13:49] Voice 4: ask robert to read it back yeah

[6:13:51] Trustee Bernardo: that

[6:13:52] Voice 4: would be handy thank you perfect that's the language and

[6:14:00] Trustee Bernardo: uh i take it uh i see trustee evans

[6:14:03] Trustee Bernardo: has her hand up are you moving that motion trustee evans oh

[6:14:09] Voice 7: i can second it all right i

[6:14:12] Voice 7: believe that

[6:14:13] Voice 7: that Trustee Elliot moved it.

[6:14:15] Trustee Bernardo: Right.

[6:14:16] Voice 7: I can second it.

[6:14:17] Trustee Bernardo: Right.

[6:14:20] Trustee Bernardo: And not hearing any further debate,

[6:14:23] Trustee Bernardo: I'm putting it up for a vote.

[6:14:25] Trustee Bernardo: Please have a show of hands

[6:14:26] Trustee Bernardo: of those people who support

[6:14:27] Voice 4: this motion.

[6:14:33] Voice 4: The motion is carried, thank you.

[6:14:36] Voice 4: Let's return to the agenda, please.

[6:14:39] Voice 4: If you could put that up on the screen.

[6:14:55] Voice 4: While we're waiting for that to

[6:14:56] Voice 7: go on the screen,

[6:14:57] Voice 7: can I add something quickly?

[6:15:00] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I was actually gonna exercise my prerogative

[6:15:03] Trustee Bernardo: of this chair to uh suggest that we take a five minute recess for uh people to um make themselves

[6:15:09] Trustee Bernardo: more comfortable do i have uh and that's what we're doing we're recessing for five minutes

[6:15:22] Trustee Bernardo: so people go to the bathroom there you go

[6:15:25] Trustee Elliott: that's right plain language at chair point of privilege

[6:15:29] Voice 4: actually is the way

[6:15:31] Trustee Bernardo: you see by the time we're done the language is gonna be way plainer than

[6:15:34] Trustee Bernardo: you ever thought all right back

[6:15:39] Voice 4: in five minutes okay you are not muted

[6:15:51] Trustee Elliott: trusty luck i'm just so

[6:15:53] Trustee Elliott: you know

[6:15:53] Voice 4: okay

[6:15:54] Trustee Elliott: you're

[6:15:58] Voice 4: gonna have to work on that button what do we have left on the agenda here

[6:19:39] Voice 4: not much i think we're about nothing

[6:19:40] Voice 4: but i

[6:19:43] Voice 7: just wanted to bring forward and notice of motion for

[6:19:48] Voice 7: the next meeting

[6:19:48] Voice 4: on the topic that we were just talking about hey this is only two hours over time

[6:20:05] Voice 4: we're doing pretty good no an hour and a half we're beating our last fpc meeting well the day

[6:20:18] Voice 4: may come where we actually do it on time it's gonna happen gotta have a little faith figure it

[6:20:25] Voice 4: out well this is what

[6:20:29] Trustee Elliott: i just have the buttheads a little more efficiently there bernardo yes well

[6:20:33] Voice 18: well, this is

[6:20:34] Trustee Bernardo: democracy in action.

[6:20:36] Trustee Bernardo: You get to be as long as you want.

[6:20:41] Trustee Bernardo: All right, enough nonsense.

[6:20:42] Trustee Bernardo: The meeting is resuming

[6:20:45] Trustee Bernardo: with proper seriousness as an elected body.

[6:20:49] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Evans, you had some remarks to make.

[6:20:53] Voice 7: Yes, I wanted to,

[6:20:56] Voice 7: and I'm not sure quite how to do this,

[6:20:58] Voice 7: but to bring forward a notice of motion

[6:21:00] Voice 7: for the next meeting

[6:21:01] Voice 7: regarding um releasing the draft budget after the march uh the february 18th meeting

[6:21:12] Voice 7: um along with the highlighted areas of increase so i'll work i'll work with staff on wording on

[6:21:18] Voice 7: that and bring that forward um at the next meeting um but i just wanted to have it noted

[6:21:25] Voice 7: so that it's on the agenda just

[6:21:32] Voice 4: a moment please i've uh i'm dealing with an interruption here

[6:21:36] Voice 4: apologies for that interruption um thank

[6:21:54] Trustee Bernardo: you thank you for that um information so as i

[6:21:59] Trustee Bernardo: understand it trustee evans you're just giving us a heads up that that's uh something you intend to

[6:22:05] Trustee Bernardo: do

[6:22:06] Voice 4: yes that's correct and

[6:22:08] Trustee Bernardo: that's addressing the transparency issue you'd identified before

[6:22:11] Trustee Bernardo: correct

[6:22:12] Trustee Elliott: right

[6:22:13] Trustee Bernardo: thank you trustee elliot isn't

[6:22:17] Trustee Elliott: the agenda um going to include the draft budget

[6:22:21] Trustee Elliott: it and highlighted areas that staff would have prepared like isn't that a public document are

[6:22:27] Trustee Elliott: you looking for some other kind of um like

[6:22:33] Voice 7: yes i i am looking for something slightly different to

[6:22:37] Voice 7: what's being released in the past because it's very difficult to read and understand i'm looking

[6:22:41] Voice 7: for a simplified um item where it just where it breaks out the major areas of increases like the

[6:22:52] Voice 7: staff raises which equates to this much percent or this much dollar value those big pieces so that

[6:22:59] Voice 7: when the public are looking at it they go okay so the rest of it it's it's not going to really

[6:23:07] Voice 7: have any effect we've done everything that we can we're being responsible we're not just

[6:23:12] Voice 7: um it based based on on like public comments that we that we were hearing last year people

[6:23:19] Voice 7: People weren't really understanding where the increases were coming from or how they were derived.

[6:23:23] Voice 7: And a lot of them are operational. They're outside of our control.

[6:23:26] Voice 7: And this is just a way of clarifying it and to help keep the the emotions smoothed, smoothed out.

[6:23:36] Voice 7: if yeah well

[6:23:38] Trustee Bernardo: trustee evans you're actually uh touching i think on a very important point that

[6:23:44] Trustee Bernardo: transparency means a lot more than simply shoving a truckload of information at people and dumping

[6:23:49] Trustee Bernardo: it on them um it means presenting the information in a way that's accessible and um staff does a

[6:23:57] Trustee Bernardo: pretty heroic job juggling an awful lot of information but um and this is not something

[6:24:04] Trustee Bernardo: that can be dealt with um in a hurry but the the format the way the information is presented even

[6:24:11] Trustee Bernardo: at these meetings and before the trust council i think over time it'd be it'd be good if we could

[6:24:17] Trustee Bernardo: devote some energy to uh working in a similar direction along the lines that you're talking

[6:24:22] Trustee Bernardo: about um more use of executive summaries um having hyperlinks in the document just uh just having

[6:24:30] Trustee Bernardo: the agenda and the attachments to it just just a bit more accessible even for the trustees so that

[6:24:35] Trustee Bernardo: that they know what's going on.

[6:24:37] Trustee Bernardo: For example, when we've got a change in the draft

[6:24:41] Trustee Bernardo: from one draft to another, it'd be very helpful

[6:24:43] Trustee Bernardo: to simply have redlining.

[6:24:46] Trustee Bernardo: We had the technology for what, 40 years?

[6:24:49] Trustee Bernardo: Let's use it.

[6:24:51] Trustee Bernardo: All right, does anybody have,

[6:24:53] Trustee Bernardo: let's see, we get on the agenda here.

[6:24:58] Trustee Bernardo: I see very, we have the next meeting is scheduled

[6:25:01] Trustee Bernardo: for Tuesday, February 14th.

[6:25:04] Trustee Bernardo: I suppose there's not,

[6:25:05] Trustee Bernardo: Is there anything for us to do about that?

[6:25:08] Trustee Bernardo: That was already set, I think, at the last meeting, was it not?

[6:25:12] Voice 17: Mr. Barlow.

[6:25:14] Voice 1: I just wanted to bring to the chair's attention that normally we start the meeting at 10.

[6:25:21] Voice 1: It'll be starting at approximately 10.30 because the audit committee,

[6:25:25] Voice 1: which most of you are now a member, will be meeting at 10 o'clock,

[6:25:29] Voice 1: and typically it takes about 30 minutes before their start.

[6:25:34] Voice 4: Thank you for that clarification.

[6:25:35] Voice 4: clarification. Do we have any business that requires a closed meeting? I mean, is there

[6:25:45] Voice 4: anything anybody wants to raise that requires that we discuss it in camera? Hearing nothing,

[6:25:53] Trustee Bernardo: we move on.

[6:25:57] Voice 4: Mr. Bartle, perhaps you'd explain to me what rise in a report actually means.

[6:26:06] Voice 4: Thank

[6:26:06] Voice 1: you, Mr. Chair. I hesitate to give a definitive answer because I don't have one,

[6:26:10] Voice 1: but it's essentially a an option for the committee to report on anything that they've discussed

[6:26:19] Voice 1: within the closed meeting but as you haven't had a closed meeting there's no need for such a thing

[6:26:25] Voice 1: ah

[6:26:27] Trustee Bernardo: well the circle is closed then uh i don't hear any further comments uh people uh i think uh you've

[6:26:35] Trustee Bernardo: all done a great job of going at it hammer and tongs like i said before that's what we're here

[6:26:41] Trustee Bernardo: here for so with that uh thank you everybody and uh the meeting is adjourned thank you

[6:26:52] Voice 16: excellent job at uh getting us through this marathon and uh i'm certainly going to plan on

[6:26:58] Voice 16: having more snacks available for our next fpc

[6:27:03] Trustee Bernardo: what would be a lot more efficient if you all obeyed but i guess that's not in the cards so

[6:27:09] Trustee Bernardo: all right thank you everybody uh have a good evening

[6:27:11] Voice 4: thank you everyone thank you robert