Islands Trust Governance Committee regular meeting, January 19, 2023

[0:00:00] Voice 8: My name is Russ Hotzenpiller. I'm the Chief Administrative Officer of the Allens Trust

[0:00:04] Voice 8: and we will start our meeting by making acknowledgement of that we're working

[0:00:11] Voice 8: and living in this across Coast Salish Territory and deeply appreciate that fact.

[0:00:18] Voice 8: This is going to be a very brief chairing by myself. We will readily move on to

[0:00:25] Voice 8: um the election for chair and vice chair of the governance committee i take this opportunity to

[0:00:32] Voice 8: congratulate you on your um election to the position of governance committee and the staff

[0:00:36] Voice 8: very much look forward to working with you over the um the coming term um i'm wondering whether

[0:00:41] Voice 8: it would be a value to um well perhaps the chair will go around and do introductions once we get

[0:00:46] Voice 8: to that point um and we would proceed um with the chair elections do i have agreement sure

[0:00:55] Voice 8: It looks like so. So, Claire, do you mind stepping into the space, please, and assisting us with determining the chair of the governance committee?

[0:01:04] Voice 2: I would be happy to. And good morning, committee. So in the absence of David Marler, who is the director of legislative services, he's on vacation.

[0:01:12] Voice 2: I'm stepping in to administer your elections this morning for chair and vice chair.

[0:01:17] Voice 2: So without any further ado, I will launch into a script we have to introduce you to the elections process, and then I'll be calling for nominations.

[0:01:23] Voice 2: nominations. So to let you know, we'll proceed this morning by first asking for the election

[0:01:29] Voice 2: of chair and then we'll follow that with vice chair. I will ask for nominations for the position

[0:01:35] Voice 2: of committee chair and then a seconder. If the person accepts the nomination, we'll add their

[0:01:39] Voice 2: name to an electronic ballot in SurveyMonkey. I will call three times for further nominations

[0:01:44] Voice 2: and then we'll close the nominations. If there are two or more candidates, we will proceed on

[0:01:50] Voice 2: to an election if there's only one candidate nominated then that person will be acclaimed

[0:01:54] Voice 2: into the role after the nominations each nominee can have a few minutes to say why they would like

[0:02:00] Voice 2: to be chair once the nominations close i will ask the committee by a simple majority vote

[0:02:06] Voice 2: to appoint a scrutineer this can be any member of the committee who is not a candidate in the

[0:02:10] Voice 2: election please note that there is no proxy voting so trustees need to be present in the meeting

[0:02:15] Voice 2: to nominate, second, stand for nomination and vote.

[0:02:19] Voice 2: If there is a tie vote with more than two candidates,

[0:02:22] Voice 2: we will reissue the vote via SurveyMonkey

[0:02:25] Voice 2: with just the tied names on the ballot.

[0:02:27] Voice 2: If there is a tie vote with only two candidates,

[0:02:30] Voice 2: we will select by lot by writing two names

[0:02:33] Voice 2: on a piece of paper, we'll put them in a box

[0:02:35] Voice 2: and pull the names with the scrutineer watching

[0:02:40] Voice 2: and ask the scrutineer to read the name.

[0:02:42] Voice 2: We will then return to the meeting with those results.

[0:02:44] Voice 2: results. As I just mentioned, we're using SurveyMonkey to conduct the vote. And I've got

[0:02:50] Voice 2: Jillian Nickel, our program coordinator here in the office with me to help with that process.

[0:02:53] Voice 2: The names will be listed alphabetically by last name on the ballot. And once the ballot is ready,

[0:02:58] Voice 2: we'll send it to your Islands Trust email address with a one-time link. This process takes six to

[0:03:04] Voice 2: 10 minutes for the email to leave SurveyMonkey and make its way to you. So we encourage you to

[0:03:09] Voice 2: take a break and find a coffee and then return that. And once all the ballots have been received,

[0:03:15] Voice 2: I will email the scrutineer to join me in a separate Zoom meeting. We'll both drop out of

[0:03:19] Voice 2: this meeting and meet in the other meeting to review the results. I'll just note that the

[0:03:24] Voice 2: ex-officio member of this committee is not entitled to vote and will not get a ballot.

[0:03:29] Voice 2: Once the scrutineer and I have reviewed the results, we will then return to this meeting

[0:03:34] Voice 2: and I will announce the result. I'll pause there and ask

[0:03:38] Voice 4: if there's any questions.

[0:03:42] Voice 3: No.

[0:03:43] Voice 4: Great. Okay, so hearing none, I'll move forward

[0:03:46] Voice 2: with the election.

[0:03:47] Voice 2: So at this time, I'd like to ask, are there any nominations for the position of Chair of the Governance Committee?

[0:03:54] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, I'd like to nominate Judy Getty.

[0:03:59] Voice 4: Is there a seconder for that? I

[0:04:02] Voice 2: see Laura Patrick. And Trustee Getty, would you like to accept that nomination?

[0:04:07] Voice 6: Yes, thank you.

[0:04:08] Voice 2: Thank you. All right, thank you. So I'll call again for nominations. Is there another nomination for the position of Chair of the Governance Committee?

[0:04:15] Voice 5: and i'll call again is there another nomination for the position of chair of the governance

[0:04:25] Voice 5: committee okay

[0:04:31] Voice 4: and one final time is there another nomination for the position of chair of the

[0:04:36] Voice 4: governance committee all right hearing none i'm very

[0:04:43] Voice 2: pleased to congratulate trustee getty as

[0:04:45] Voice 2: chair of the governance committee thank

[0:04:48] Voice 6: you all would

[0:04:49] Voice 2: you like to take a few minutes to address

[0:04:50] Voice 2: the committee well

[0:04:53] Voice 6: i had a little list of things to say in terms of why i wanted the position and

[0:04:59] Voice 6: and why I thought you should vote for me,

[0:05:00] Voice 6: but I'll skip all that and thank you very much.

[0:05:05] Voice 2: Okay, well, thank you very much and congratulations.

[0:05:08] Voice 2: So with that, I will proceed with the election

[0:05:10] Voice 2: of vice chair and then I'll be turning the meeting

[0:05:12] Voice 2: over to you, Trustee Getty to chair.

[0:05:15] Voice 2: So now we'll proceed again with an election

[0:05:17] Voice 2: for the position of vice chair.

[0:05:19] Voice 2: So are there any nominations for the position of vice chair?

[0:05:23] Trustee Middleton: I

[0:05:23] Voice 2: see Trustee Middleton.

[0:05:25] Trustee Middleton: Yes, I nominate Trustee Harris, please.

[0:05:27] Voice 2: Thank you.

[0:05:28] Voice 2: are there seconders for that nomination i see trustee peterson uh

[0:05:35] Voice 4: trustee harris would you

[0:05:36] Voice 4: like to accept that nomination yes i would thank you thank

[0:05:41] Voice 2: you all right so i will call again

[0:05:43] Voice 2: for the position of vice chair are there any nominations i'd

[0:05:48] Voice 6: like to nominate joe bernardo

[0:05:51] Voice 4: is there a seconder for that nomination i see trustee peterson

[0:05:59] Voice 4: trustee bernardo would you like to accept that nomination

[0:06:01] Voice 4: nomination?

[0:06:04] Trustee Bernardo: I'm going to decline the nomination. Thank you.

[0:06:08] Voice 2: Thank you. All right. I'll call again

[0:06:11] Voice 2: for nominations and see, is there a further nomination for the position of vice chair?

[0:06:17] Voice 5: Okay.

[0:06:23] Voice 4: And I'll call one final time. Is there another nomination for the position of vice

[0:06:27] Voice 4: chair for governance committee?

[0:06:35] Voice 5: All right. So hearing that, I'm

[0:06:36] Voice 2: very pleased to congratulate

[0:06:38] Voice 2: trustee Harris on the position of vice chair of governance committee. Would you like to take a

[0:06:43] Voice 2: few words

[0:06:44] Voice 15: i'll take a minute

[0:06:46] Voice 2: to say a few words well

[0:06:48] Voice 15: i'll just say thank you and i'm looking

[0:06:50] Voice 15: forward to it fantastic

[0:06:53] Voice 2: so thank you very much that was very smooth and with that i'd like to

[0:06:57] Voice 2: pass the meeting over to uh chair getty to chair from this point on all

[0:07:02] Voice 6: right um so next on the

[0:07:06] Voice 6: agenda is our new items and reordering of the agenda

[0:07:11] Voice 5: so

[0:07:14] Voice 6: and

[0:07:18] Voice 5: i don't have the reorder i don't

[0:07:19] Voice 5: have

[0:07:19] Voice 6: the original so what are we reordering yeah

[0:07:26] Voice 8: this is simply an opportunity i think there is

[0:07:30] Voice 8: some late items that were brought forward that um you would accept into the agenda and if there's

[0:07:36] Voice 8: any interest that um on behalf of committee to take one item that's um in a different spot and

[0:07:42] Voice 8: move it forward you could do that otherwise you would just adopt the um agenda um as presented

[0:07:49] Voice 8: right so

[0:07:50] Voice 6: then on the screen we've got the late items the budget and correspondence and can we

[0:07:59] Voice 5: go back to the original does anybody want anything switched around moved patrick

[0:08:09] Trustee Patrick: trustee patrick i

[0:08:12] Trustee Patrick: don't know if there's any appropriate place on the agenda or just making sure we take that time

[0:08:17] Trustee Patrick: either today or schedule it for another meeting of how we want to work together as a group being

[0:08:22] Trustee Patrick: a brand new standing committee i think would be a good conversation right

[0:08:26] Voice 6: is that in here anywhere

[0:08:31] Voice 6: other than the terms of reference madam

[0:08:34] Voice 8: chair yes

[0:08:35] Voice 6: so

[0:08:36] Voice 8: later on the agenda 8.2 and then 8.3

[0:08:39] Voice 8: i think there are those opportunities for you to have that discussion there's one around a meeting

[0:08:44] Voice 8: structure and then there is business priorities so that's a an opportunity for some free-form

[0:08:50] Voice 8: discussion around how the committee wants to operate all

[0:08:55] Voice 5: right is that satisfactory trustee

[0:08:58] Voice 6: patrick all right let's see if we can get into it enough when we get there all right so um can i

[0:09:07] Voice 6: get a motion to approve the agenda as

[0:09:09] Voice 5: circulated trustee bernardo seconder uh

[0:09:17] Trustee Bernardo: actually what i was

[0:09:18] Trustee Bernardo: sorry sorry about that um uh chair getty what i was uh i previously had my hand up because i just

[0:09:26] Trustee Bernardo: wanted to point out that when i had suggested that item 8.2 um but the intention behind it was in

[0:09:34] Trustee Bernardo: fact the same as what trustee patrick is um uh concerned to address which is when i refer to the

[0:09:42] Trustee Bernardo: structure of the committee what i was getting at is uh the importance of the governance committee

[0:09:50] Trustee Bernardo: committee, as Trustee Patrick pointed out, being a new one and given the nature of our terms of

[0:09:56] Trustee Bernardo: reference, it's pretty important that we develop a structure that's appropriate for it. So just to

[0:10:02] Trustee Bernardo: clarify that. And just incidentally, we still have this new item, I think, that has to be entered

[0:10:09] Trustee Bernardo: into the agenda, which comes from the FPC meeting yesterday. I'm not sure how we want to deal with

[0:10:16] Trustee Bernardo: that but over to you thank you um

[0:10:22] Voice 6: item 10 is new business um so should we add those uh addendum

[0:10:28] Voice 6: on to that and have that as part of the agenda that we're looking at for approving uh

[0:10:34] Trustee Bernardo: i actually

[0:10:35] Trustee Bernardo: i stand i i'd have to correct myself i see it's actually already on the agenda at uh 8.4.1 so i

[0:10:42] Trustee Bernardo: guess it got put in at the last minute good

[0:10:45] Voice 5: all right so

[0:10:47] Trustee Bernardo: yes uh i will now uh move

[0:10:50] Voice 5: that we accept

[0:10:50] Voice 5: up the agenda any seconder trustee patrick all in favor any opposed good that looks like it's

[0:11:09] Voice 5: carried all right are there any public comments trustee getty

[0:11:18] Voice 5: i see

[0:11:19] Voice 7: uh there is one member of

[0:11:20] Voice 7: the public in the attendees if that person wishes to speak or if they can raise their electronic

[0:11:26] Voice 7: hands and and we can move into this portion of the agenda typically two minutes three two

[0:11:35] Voice 6: to five if

[0:11:35] Voice 6: If anybody wishes to speak, I can't see those hands on my screen.

[0:11:42] Voice 6: So if they're, if they raise their hand, can you.

[0:11:47] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. Under the participants list under attendees,

[0:11:50] Trustee Luckham: you'll see them both there and

[0:11:54] Voice 5: I don't see their hands coming up.

[0:11:59] Voice 5: Okay. Any delegations.

[0:12:05] Voice 7: Apologies. Can you call that one more time, please?

[0:12:07] Voice 7: For the show of hands for a public.

[0:12:10] Voice 7: The button was clicked.

[0:12:13] Voice 6: Any members of the public that are watching electronically,

[0:12:16] Voice 6: electronically if you'd like to speak to the committee and any of the points on the agenda

[0:12:22] Voice 6: or any of the work that we're about to to launch into raise your hand now's your chance all right

[0:12:40] Voice 5: so let's hear from delegations are there any delegations all right I'm not hearing any

[0:12:57] Voice 6: response to delegations either then let's get to what do we got section six governance committee

[0:13:04] Voice 6: committee orientation terms of reference council committee system policy and summary of the trust

[0:13:11] Voice 6: council governance priorities madam

[0:13:16] Voice 8: chair yes

[0:13:17] Voice 6: so

[0:13:18] Voice 8: uh do you wish me to uh just do a brief overview

[0:13:20] Voice 8: of this sure thank you okay well thank you very much uh good to be with you all um on section six

[0:13:27] Voice 8: has uh some um orientation it's not in depth um many of you are on committees and we have provided

[0:13:34] Voice 8: you some materials around the council committee system so I thought I'd just do a brief historical

[0:13:41] Voice 8: context and then speak about some of the resources that you have available to you as you start to

[0:13:46] Voice 8: deliberate. We can briefly go through the terms of reference and then the committee system if

[0:13:51] Voice 8: indeed there's any questions and then finally to assist you in your work and some a handover from

[0:13:58] Voice 8: the last trust council there was a session in September that had a priorities workshop so

[0:14:06] Voice 8: there's some material there that we would provide so just a brief history the governance committee

[0:14:14] Voice 8: was a significant piece of the development of it the report that we received on a review of

[0:14:22] Voice 8: the governance review by Great Northern Management Consultants was provided in 2022

[0:14:30] Voice 8: and in February and then subsequently there's discussion of development of a government's

[0:14:36] Voice 8: committee. A committee was formed last term. It met twice. Certainly there was some urgency to

[0:14:44] Voice 8: that work as trust council concluded and it wasn't put into policy so um this is this is new for the

[0:14:52] Voice 8: allen's trust a new standing committee we haven't had one in in many many years over a decade i'm

[0:14:57] Voice 8: sure and so the creation of this body has slightly different parameters than some of the other

[0:15:03] Voice 8: standing committees but uh nevertheless the council committee um so both the terms of reference

[0:15:09] Voice 8: was developed and the council committee policy were both amended and adopted to consider the

[0:15:16] Voice 8: governance committee process the terms of reference which you will find on page four

[0:15:22] Voice 8: I don't it's there for your review there was you know significant discussion around

[0:15:28] Voice 8: what is being tasked by trust council to the governance committee certainly it's review of

[0:15:34] Voice 8: governance report as a foundational document to looking through those recommendations and reporting

[0:15:40] Voice 8: back to trust council with possible actions but also a wider opportunity to look at governance

[0:15:47] Voice 8: from a broader perspective best practices appropriate structures and procedures moving

[0:15:51] Voice 8: forward and making those recommendations to trust council so I think that would be read to mean

[0:15:58] Voice 8: certainly the governance report would be a leading document but you can look

[0:16:02] Voice 8: wider than that as you develop your recommendations maintaining a committee work program as would

[0:16:08] Voice 8: be regular with council committees and providing recommendations to trust council for any reformer

[0:16:14] Voice 8: initiatives I will not go through the council committee system policy certainly I could

[0:16:19] Voice 8: respond to any questions if they come up you do have as per five in the terms of reference

[0:16:26] Voice 8: you do have some funding you have some operational funding it is not significant it's a thousand

[0:16:31] Voice 8: dollars um in the current um budget so you may want to think about that as you get into your

[0:16:37] Voice 8: budget discussions and there has been a placeholder of fifteen thousand dollars put in the budget the

[0:16:43] Voice 8: upcoming 2023 budget for your consideration um right now and certainly you'll have an opportunity

[0:16:49] Voice 8: to 8.4 to discuss that in terms of resources that you have as a body uh there's uh three staff

[0:16:59] Voice 8: staff people, myself, Laurie Foster and David Marler, who will be working with this committee

[0:17:06] Voice 8: at this point. Those would be your primary contacts. Laurie will, we're expanding Laurie's

[0:17:15] Voice 8: time to, admittedly, she's got a number of committees already, but we think this is the

[0:17:21] Voice 8: best place or the best administrative support we can provide you at this time. So she will conduct

[0:17:27] Voice 8: those all the administrative matters and certainly if you have any questions you can refer them to

[0:17:32] Voice 8: her and to me of course later on the meeting we'll have an opportunity to talk about your

[0:17:41] Voice 8: meeting schedule normally we would come up with a bunch of dates and provide them to you

[0:17:48] Voice 8: but this committee is getting I think needs to discuss that matter and when and how it wants

[0:17:55] Voice 8: to meet and how does it get sequenced into what's a fairly uh dense um operational legislative

[0:18:04] Voice 8: schedule we have at the islands trust how do you want to sync with trust council meetings

[0:18:10] Voice 8: and how does that look over the course of the year so i think that you'll uh you'll have an opportunity

[0:18:15] Voice 8: to discuss that later on so that's uh six one um madam chair and six two i'd respond to any

[0:18:23] Voice 8: Mayor Mrakas, Any questions and then six three, as you can appreciate, we didn't have a chair and how do we get you ready for this first introductory meeting and we thought that it might be appropriate.

[0:18:35] Voice 8: Mayor Mrakas, Normally, in the chair and myself would sit and plan the agenda and we would get appropriate materials in front of committee and that's what we will do in the future i'm sure.

[0:18:47] Voice 8: but for here we thought as a holdover we would provide some of the work that was provided during

[0:18:52] Voice 8: the sessions of trust council so that's some reference documentation and maybe you that will

[0:18:58] Voice 8: help as you set some of your priorities so if i'm not i'm sure i'd turn it back to you that's a

[0:19:04] Voice 8: fairly brief orientation um but if there's any other context you need or any questions you want

[0:19:09] Voice 8: to ask by all means um

[0:19:13] Voice 6: i have lots of questions but um i'm not sure where to start in terms of

[0:19:17] Voice 6: of I'm interested in what the other members

[0:19:21] Voice 6: of the committee would like to,

[0:19:23] Voice 6: if we created a list of all the things

[0:19:25] Voice 6: that we have to get into

[0:19:26] Voice 6: and then what the priorities would be.

[0:19:30] Voice 6: So certainly that the report of the consultants

[0:19:36] Voice 6: make sure that everybody's up to speed on that.

[0:19:39] Voice 6: What else is other members of the committee?

[0:19:45] Voice 6: Trustee Harris as

[0:19:46] Voice 5: vice, do you have priorities?

[0:19:55] Voice 5: Yeah, I'd prefer to see how it takes shape here.

[0:20:00] Voice 6: We can't all just stand back and hope for it to take shape.

[0:20:07] Voice 6: We've got to really move on this.

[0:20:08] Voice 6: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:20:12] Trustee Bernardo: If we're going to discuss priorities, I think Trustee Patrick's point, and it's on the agenda, you know, for later on.

[0:20:21] Trustee Bernardo: And I don't know to what extent we want to chain ourselves to the formality of this preliminary agenda.

[0:20:26] Trustee Bernardo: agenda. I think the CAO's overview was helpful. I saw in the materials there's

[0:20:35] Trustee Bernardo: a record of breakout sessions from the past and all the rest of it. With respect, I don't think

[0:20:44] Trustee Bernardo: that stuff is particularly helpful for this committee to go through. The challenge is pretty

[0:20:50] Trustee Bernardo: clear i think and it the the trigger for this committee appears to be concerns that emerged

[0:20:57] Trustee Bernardo: in last term about governance about ineffectiveness about a whole bunch of things and they're all in

[0:21:03] Trustee Bernardo: the governance review report and it seems to me that um as uh it's a substantive part of the job

[0:21:13] Trustee Bernardo: but also a part of the orientation for us to get our own thinking straight about priorities

[0:21:19] Trustee Bernardo: I think if our first step is to diligently, collectively, go through that governance review report and identify the things that we as a committee agree are priorities, and I think it's equally important for us as a committee to identify the things that we think are wrong in the report so we can filter it through.

[0:21:45] Trustee Bernardo: And then once we've done that exercise, we will, I think, be in a good position to move forward on positive changes to the extent that they're necessary.

[0:21:58] Trustee Bernardo: So my suggestion is that we make our number one priority an in-depth review of the governance report.

[0:22:07] Trustee Bernardo: Now, how we do that touches with Trustee Patrick's point and the reason why we need to talk about how we configure this committee and how we do the work.

[0:22:22] Trustee Bernardo: The usual thing that seems to happen in these committees is things come up for a decision.

[0:22:28] Trustee Bernardo: And often it seems there are things that the trustees are more or less clueless about.

[0:22:34] Trustee Bernardo: they're things that have been boiling away in the background for either some time

[0:22:38] Trustee Bernardo: or they're coming from the staff side there often seems to have been little discussion amongst the

[0:22:44] Trustee Bernardo: trustees about the issue and of course trustees are hamstrung to a certain extent by the no quorum

[0:22:51] Trustee Bernardo: rule which is itself i think something how we manage it as a at the islands trust i think is

[0:22:59] Trustee Bernardo: is itself an issue for this committee.

[0:23:03] Trustee Bernardo: How we conduct, how meetings are conducted generally

[0:23:06] Trustee Bernardo: in terms of the current structure seems to constrict

[0:23:10] Trustee Bernardo: the ability to have as much deliberation as we need.

[0:23:17] Trustee Bernardo: All of those things we can't allow

[0:23:19] Trustee Bernardo: to restrict the work of this committee.

[0:23:22] Trustee Bernardo: I don't have any great ideas at this moment

[0:23:24] Trustee Bernardo: about how this committee can go through

[0:23:26] Trustee Bernardo: that governance review report.

[0:23:28] Trustee Bernardo: But I do think we need to have a work plan so that people come away from these meetings, have assignments, go and then return to this meeting so that we can collectively discuss things.

[0:23:45] Trustee Bernardo: excuse me okay so uh i've gone on at some length about that i'm sorry but uh the focus is really

[0:23:55] Trustee Bernardo: a governance review and then a work plan for the committee that's that's how i see it thank you

[0:24:03] Voice 5: trustee patrick somewhat similar yes i think i think um um

[0:24:11] Trustee Patrick: we have a chance to you know

[0:24:15] Trustee Patrick: test drive so to speak how how we do things uh you know may end up being recommendations and one of

[0:24:21] Trustee Patrick: those is the what we've historically called the projects list we keep a list of what we're working

[0:24:26] Trustee Patrick: on but right in policy 231 it says that we're supposed to on the on our pro our work program

[0:24:33] Trustee Patrick: we're supposed to track projects new initiatives ideas and issues and i think the ideas and issues

[0:24:39] Trustee Patrick: pieces is often not spent enough time in. And I think that we need to, that's going to be a big

[0:24:50] Trustee Patrick: basis of what we do is sort of the inputs to a whole bunch of possibilities. Then we're going

[0:24:58] Trustee Patrick: to have to be able to prioritize it. And then there's going to be that constant feed of new

[0:25:02] Trustee Patrick: ideas and issues as they come in and the readjustment of it. So I think that's kind of

[0:25:07] Trustee Patrick: of the essence of some of the work

[0:25:08] Trustee Patrick: that we're going to have to do.

[0:25:10] Trustee Patrick: And that's something all committees need to do.

[0:25:13] Trustee Patrick: And that if we can figure this out,

[0:25:15] Trustee Patrick: that's a beginning of a good governance behavior

[0:25:18] Trustee Patrick: on tracking work.

[0:25:21] Voice 5: Okay, thanks.

[0:25:22] Voice 5: Trustee Peterson.

[0:25:25] Voice 14: Yeah, thank you.

[0:25:27] Voice 14: I'm going to agree with some of what I've heard already.

[0:25:29] Voice 14: I think we need to go through the report

[0:25:34] Voice 14: in a fairly analytical way

[0:25:36] Voice 14: and, you know, keep what we feel is worthy of working on.

[0:25:44] Voice 14: And then I think the next thing to do

[0:25:47] Voice 14: is look at what can be done within the organization.

[0:25:49] Voice 14: There are a number of recommendations

[0:25:51] Voice 14: that require the province to help us to change things.

[0:25:58] Voice 14: So I would suggest those we can sort

[0:26:02] Voice 14: through some of the things through that lens.

[0:26:05] Voice 14: And then once we've done that, then I would say that's when we want to look at our top priorities of those things we can do within the organization and consider at some point whether we want to go to trust counsel and take the temperature there of what trustees in general feel ought to be our priorities.

[0:26:32] Voice 14: and in terms of working format I think that especially when we're talking about something

[0:26:41] Voice 14: of this complexity that it might be a good idea to have a couple different types of sessions some

[0:26:48] Voice 14: that are perhaps a little more formal and structured and some that are maybe a little bit

[0:26:52] Voice 14: more towards the brainstorming end of things so those are my thoughts thank

[0:26:57] Voice 5: you trustee stamford

[0:27:00] Voice 5: Hi,

[0:27:01] Trustee Stamford: thank you, Chair. Yes, I think we're on the right track here. I did go through the report yesterday again. And I'm wondering if just in terms of to start us off is to look at the recommendations and determine, you know, what are realistic, what are doable, what have already been done.

[0:27:22] Trustee Stamford: there's several that we've taken on that have already been done and then what is missing there's

[0:27:27] Trustee Stamford: a there's a few things that i can see we could work on that we're not particularly weren't in

[0:27:34] Trustee Stamford: the report or at least weren't highlighted as recommendations so in terms of process i was

[0:27:38] Trustee Stamford: wondering if we could do that um uh when we're going back to the trust council i want to be

[0:27:44] Trustee Stamford: careful that we don't keep going back with vague ideas because that's when we seem to get bogged

[0:27:51] Trustee Stamford: down in what the trust council should be doing versus what the committee should be doing so if

[0:27:57] Trustee Stamford: we present them with something then they can say yay or nay you're on the right track you're not

[0:28:02] Trustee Stamford: on the right track and get some clear definition that way um it we have been tasked with with doing

[0:28:11] Trustee Stamford: the work so i want to see us do some work before we go to council with sort of vague notions so

[0:28:18] Trustee Stamford: So those are just my overall points.

[0:28:22] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:28:24] Voice 6: Trustee Harris and Trustee Middleton,

[0:28:26] Voice 6: you have not raised your hand.

[0:28:28] Voice 6: Do you want to add anything at this point?

[0:28:33] Voice 15: Yes, I'm happy to hear what Joe Bernardo has to say.

[0:28:37] Voice 15: And I'd like to hear from everybody as well.

[0:28:40] Voice 15: The governance review is very, very important.

[0:28:43] Voice 15: I agree.

[0:28:45] Voice 15: And the idea of creating a work plan

[0:28:48] Voice 15: to kind of get through it seems like a task in itself.

[0:28:55] Voice 15: And it would be interesting to hear some thoughts

[0:28:59] Voice 15: on how we could actually address that.

[0:29:03] Voice 6: Thanks, Trustee Bernardo.

[0:29:07] Trustee Bernardo: All right, thank you for that.

[0:29:11] Trustee Bernardo: I just wanted to pipe up to mention that I agree

[0:29:16] Trustee Bernardo: with Trustee Sanford's observation with respect

[0:29:19] Trustee Bernardo: to how um how we engage the trust council i think she's quite right to point out that um

[0:29:26] Trustee Bernardo: the trust council in a sense is actually looking to this committee for a certain amount of

[0:29:30] Trustee Bernardo: leadership it's not deferring to us for decisions obviously but um that governance review report

[0:29:38] Trustee Bernardo: um you know you don't have to be a genius when you read that thing to figure out that it's the

[0:29:45] Trustee Bernardo: the product of a lot of interviews with trustees.

[0:29:49] Trustee Bernardo: And whatever its virtues and faults,

[0:29:52] Trustee Bernardo: it appears to represent a fairly thorough...

[0:30:01] Trustee Bernardo: engagement with the trustees of the last term about their observations about what's working

[0:30:05] Trustee Bernardo: and what isn't and a great deal of what isn't so in terms of going back to the trust council to

[0:30:11] Trustee Bernardo: get input you know what do you think how do you feel about stuff i think that's uh you know to

[0:30:15] Trustee Bernardo: be blunt probably a waste of time we know what the problems are uh we've got a lot of years of

[0:30:21] Trustee Bernardo: experience distilled in the observations that are recorded in that report and so i think trustee

[0:30:28] Trustee Bernardo: Samford's on very firm ground to say, like, when we go back to the trust committee, they're looking

[0:30:31] Trustee Bernardo: to us to come up with sound recommendations for them to get their hands around. And then whether

[0:30:40] Trustee Bernardo: they accept them or not, that's up to the larger body. But I think that's the right direction to

[0:30:44] Trustee Bernardo: go into. As to developing a work plan, you know, I appreciate Trustee Samford's eagerness to sort

[0:30:53] Trustee Bernardo: of get in there. And I think we should. But I do think we need to take a little bit of time at

[0:31:00] Trustee Bernardo: at least to structure or to think about the long-term sequence of events of how we deal

[0:31:08] Trustee Bernardo: with these things. For example, even reviewing those recommendations, I'm not sure I would be

[0:31:14] Trustee Bernardo: comfortable off the cuff just starting to talk about them today. I'd like to see maybe some

[0:31:20] Trustee Bernardo: subgroups or working groups get together, take a handful of these recommendations and say two or

[0:31:25] Trustee Bernardo: or three a non-quorum you know of trustees a handful of trustees taking the responsibility

[0:31:31] Trustee Bernardo: for example to assess one or two recommendations and then come back to this committee and report

[0:31:40] Trustee Bernardo: back to say well if these are our observations and then throw it open for discussion for the

[0:31:47] Trustee Bernardo: other trustees to weigh in and that way we might have a constructive framework for deliberation

[0:31:54] Trustee Bernardo: uh that's just an idea but um something along those lines thank you

[0:31:59] Voice 5: trustee Middleton thank

[0:32:04] Voice 5: you excuse me

[0:32:06] Trustee Middleton: uh thank you chair um yes I I'm taking sort of a a a a step back shall we say

[0:32:13] Trustee Middleton: at this point um on the recommendations because I I I uh I sort of see for myself a causal link

[0:32:22] Trustee Middleton: between how the organization can get better and do a better job and be on a stronger Foundation

[0:32:28] Trustee Middleton: with how the recommendation, what the genesis of the recommendations was, which was actually in

[0:32:34] Trustee Middleton: that sentiment. But I don't want to be the one sort of, you know, preaching from the mountain

[0:32:39] Trustee Middleton: on that one, because that's not going to be effective. So I'm kind of want to, I guess,

[0:32:45] Trustee Middleton: allow space for members of the committee to engage themselves with recommendations and or their

[0:32:50] Trustee Middleton: experience, frankly, of the trust and how its governance structures work at council and local

[0:32:57] Trustee Middleton: trust committee level and get a sense for themselves what is working or isn't working

[0:33:01] Trustee Middleton: here and how therefore might we collectively come together put our energies toward forward

[0:33:06] Trustee Middleton: to governance reform to make things um both from the perspective of the consultants who wrote the

[0:33:13] Trustee Middleton: report which was as uh trustee bernardo said based on a fairly extensive set of interviews

[0:33:18] Trustee Middleton: of Preston, some current trustees, but also your experience as contemporary members of council

[0:33:27] Trustee Middleton: and the local trust committee and your experience with governance. So, you know, I have fairly

[0:33:32] Trustee Middleton: strong beliefs on the efficacy of some of those recommendations and how I think they can,

[0:33:38] Trustee Middleton: they're both achievable. I know not everybody agrees that the province doesn't have to be

[0:33:42] Trustee Middleton: involved in some of them and i know i already know that we have shared purpose uh on some of them for

[0:33:49] Trustee Middleton: instance trustee patrick and i have talked at some length about reforming the strategic planning

[0:33:53] Trustee Middleton: process and aligning it with as the consultants report uh or or describe as a corporate plan

[0:34:00] Trustee Middleton: that also reaches towards uh measure you know is based on measurable goals that it frankly would

[0:34:05] Trustee Middleton: probably be measures of ecological integrity um so these are big they're huge they're going to

[0:34:11] Trustee Middleton: take a long time to do and of course i i want to be respectful of this committee to harness

[0:34:17] Trustee Middleton: people's sort of interest in what in from their professional and immediate background at the trust

[0:34:22] Trustee Middleton: level i think is going to be most effective out of this whole basket that we can come together

[0:34:28] Trustee Middleton: and work on so you know i have ideas i'll certainly not be probably be shy about speaking

[0:34:33] Trustee Middleton: I would like to give some space for some of the committee members to sort of decide what they want to get behind and what they think is going to be most effective.

[0:34:45] Trustee Middleton: So yeah, that's my intro comment, I guess. It's somewhat vague, I recognize, but in the spirit of the times, I think we can come back to more precise recommendations when, as Trustee Bernardo points out, we've kind of developed a vehicle that points us in that direction.

[0:35:00] Trustee Middleton: Mayor Mrakas, Thank you so

[0:35:03] Voice 6: trustee Patrick I see your hand up, but if I can just summarize briefly, I think we're all pretty well on the same page in terms of wanting to have some intensive review of that consultants report and then have some sort of an understanding

[0:35:18] Voice 6: in terms of whether we agree with all the recommendations if we want to prioritize some of those and.

[0:35:23] Voice 6: And figuring out some sort of a timeline in terms of there's a huge amount of stuff that we can get into.

[0:35:34] Voice 6: But I think that we realistically, if we're looking at this over a multi-year plan, that we can have some sort of a strategy and the priorities for all of those.

[0:35:45] Voice 6: Trustee Patrick?

[0:35:46] Voice 6: I just

[0:35:47] Trustee Patrick: wanted to say what I had done with Annex 1 is really more related to the Regional Planning Committee.

[0:35:54] Trustee Patrick: it's because it's all about land how we do our land use planning I took annex one and broke it

[0:36:00] Trustee Patrick: out into a table I took each individual recommendation including some observations

[0:36:04] Trustee Patrick: from text and just built a table and I'm hoping that the regional planning committee will take

[0:36:09] Trustee Patrick: that and then there's questions each one of those observations or recommendations is do we understand

[0:36:15] Trustee Patrick: it there's a whole bunch of questions that we just need to do we under have a joint understanding of

[0:36:21] Trustee Patrick: of what that recommendation even is.

[0:36:24] Trustee Patrick: And I think building some form of a table to track

[0:36:28] Trustee Patrick: and what we're thinking and capturing these conversations

[0:36:31] Trustee Patrick: and thoughts that we have over time

[0:36:33] Trustee Patrick: so that is going to be a good product to have.

[0:36:39] Voice 6: Good. All right.

[0:36:41] Voice 6: So without having had that opportunity to meet with staff

[0:36:44] Voice 6: and to figure out the agenda

[0:36:46] Voice 6: and do some of the preliminary things,

[0:36:49] Voice 6: there's a little bit of floundering here,

[0:36:51] Voice 6: but i wanted to hear from you and all as uh people in terms of whether or not um we're we're heading

[0:36:58] Voice 6: in the right direction we're all in this roughly the same position so let's go back to the agenda

[0:37:03] Voice 6: and um that's um our governance committee orientation and the next on the agenda is

[0:37:11] Voice 6: the administrative coordination so draft minutes from september 2nd 22 for adoption

[0:37:17] Voice 6: I wasn't there I can't say whether or not those are accurate so

[0:37:24] Voice 6: anybody Lee Middleton Laura Patrick

[0:37:30] Voice 6: Tim Peterson you were all there's Kate Stanford I

[0:37:38] Trustee Stamford: move I move that the governance committee minutes

[0:37:42] Trustee Stamford: of meeting September 2nd 2022 be accepted as presented thank you

[0:37:51] Voice 6: seconder trustee Patrick

[0:37:53] Voice 6: any opposed all right so let's say that the minutes of the september 2nd 22

[0:38:04] Voice 6: meeting are adopted as presented the resolutions without meeting there are none and a follow-up

[0:38:11] Voice 6: action list um for

[0:38:14] Voice 5: review anything jumping out from that that we need to trustee stanford

[0:38:32] Trustee Stamford: Yes, I just want to acknowledge that, and I don't think it's really outlined here, but that some of the recommendations from the committee and the report was about a more detailed, fulsome orientation, and that some of those recommendations were taken on already for this

[0:38:55] Trustee Stamford: new term. They weren't perfect, but they were certainly, I did notice a tremendous difference

[0:39:01] Trustee Stamford: in the scope and detail of orientation for new trustees,

[0:39:07] Voice 5: and that's still ongoing.

[0:39:12] Voice 5: Trustee Middleton?

[0:39:16] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair. It's possibly a housekeeping item, or it may have more import

[0:39:22] Trustee Middleton: than I realized. This would be the Governance Committee as a new committee, and obviously

[0:39:28] Trustee Middleton: the policy was put together to give it its being. There's one difference, though, in terms of how

[0:39:36] Trustee Middleton: it's constituted from the other committees, and that is it doesn't appear to provide a channel

[0:39:43] Trustee Middleton: for representation from it to the financial planning committee. The other committees state

[0:39:51] Trustee Middleton: that, and I can't remember if it's in the policy governing the financial planning committee or if

[0:39:56] Trustee Middleton: it's in the policy governing each of the individual committees this provides um for representation and

[0:40:04] Trustee Middleton: um yeah it could just be an administrative oversight or there could be deeper meaning there

[0:40:09] Trustee Middleton: um but this seems the appropriate spot to mention it under the uh the amendments policy that the

[0:40:16] Trustee Middleton: director of legislative services carried out um so i don't like your behest chair perhaps we could

[0:40:22] Trustee Middleton: turn it over to uh to staff for comment on on that please

[0:40:28] Voice 5: uh

[0:40:30] Voice 8: yes indeed yesterday fpc met and there

[0:40:33] Voice 8: was not um an intended representative from the governance committee um we've got um a mild

[0:40:42] Voice 8: conflict in our policies but um as presented right now or as detailed in policy 231

[0:40:51] Voice 8: there isn't contemplation of financial planning committee having membership from the governance

[0:40:58] Voice 8: committee and that's not to say that shouldn't be appropriate it has not been discussed at trust

[0:41:02] Voice 8: council it wasn't discussed at the end of term certainly you could make that case to trust

[0:41:07] Voice 8: council that it that it it would be appropriate um so there has been no analysis associated with

[0:41:13] Voice 8: that uh financial planning committee's terms of reference uh does cast a little bit of ambiguity

[0:41:22] Voice 8: and it says that the committee should be comprised of the chair from each of the other standing

[0:41:25] Voice 8: committees and that says brackets two so it hasn't um contemplated it somewhat contemplates on all

[0:41:33] Voice 8: standing committees of which this is a new one but it's not explicit and the newer policy is

[0:41:39] Voice 8: is the council committee policy was addressed in September.

[0:41:43] Voice 8: The issue, frankly, didn't come up when the governance committee met

[0:41:49] Voice 8: and hasn't come up at trust council,

[0:41:51] Voice 8: but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't.

[0:41:54] Voice 8: Thank you, Madam Chair.

[0:41:56] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:41:58] Voice 5: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:42:01] Trustee Bernardo: With respect to that specific issue,

[0:42:04] Trustee Bernardo: as the CAO correctly pointed out,

[0:42:07] Trustee Bernardo: this did come up at the FPC meeting yesterday.

[0:42:10] Trustee Bernardo: and just to elaborate a little bit on that for us to you know figure out where we stood on the

[0:42:19] Trustee Bernardo: issue at least for the purposes of that meeting we engage or at least I engage in a certain amount

[0:42:25] Trustee Bernardo: of on-the-fly statutory interpretation because trust counsel's resolutions on these matters

[0:42:33] Trustee Bernardo: are in a sense that are in fact what guide us.

[0:42:37] Trustee Bernardo: And it appears that the most recent utterance

[0:42:42] Trustee Bernardo: of the trust council was, I believe an amendment

[0:42:45] Trustee Bernardo: to the policy that CAO just referred to a few seconds ago

[0:42:52] Trustee Bernardo: in September and it's the more explicit utterance

[0:42:56] Trustee Bernardo: and it leaves out reference to the governance committee.

[0:43:00] Trustee Bernardo: I think it's more specific about which chairs

[0:43:03] Trustee Bernardo: should sit on the fpc uh so you know it's it's possible there's other information out there

[0:43:11] Trustee Bernardo: uh but based on the information that was provided to us yesterday my

[0:43:16] Trustee Bernardo: my tentative view of the matter is that uh we uh uh there's the intention of the trust council

[0:43:27] Trustee Bernardo: as articulated last september is that the governance committee doesn't sit on the fpc

[0:43:32] Trustee Bernardo: that's not the as the cao pointed out that's not the end of it i mean it all depends on what the

[0:43:38] Trustee Bernardo: trust council actually wants and in part that is going to be uh influenced by i think what

[0:43:45] Trustee Bernardo: the governance committee asks of the trust council so uh that seems to be a valid and

[0:43:53] Trustee Bernardo: important thing for us to discuss do we want the chair of the governance committee to sit

[0:43:59] Trustee Bernardo: it on the fpc um and uh i won't wade into the pros and cons but it's like everything else there

[0:44:07] Trustee Bernardo: are pros and there are cons so uh we probably need to have that discussion thanks christy peterson

[0:44:15] Voice 5: yeah thank you chair

[0:44:16] Voice 14: um i agree it's uh something that i think that this committee um should discuss

[0:44:22] Voice 14: and uh from my perspective the one of the important things that might inform that uh

[0:44:32] Voice 14: discussion for us is how we want to approach the potential of aligning the strategic planning

[0:44:40] Voice 14: and financial planning into what's sometimes referred to as the corporate plan model.

[0:44:47] Voice 14: And if that is indeed where we want to go, then I think that we certainly need to have

[0:44:53] Voice 14: that discussion about

[0:44:54] Voice 5: having representation on financial planning committee.

[0:44:56] Voice 5: all right um it sounds like an important

[0:45:04] Voice 6: discussion but it's not going to happen

[0:45:05] Voice 6: today we're going to table it and make sure that it is referred to and uh somehow slotted

[0:45:11] Voice 6: into all of this work that we're going to be looking at um anything else coming out of this

[0:45:17] Voice 6: list action items madam

[0:45:23] Voice 8: chair yes thank you just just for the benefit of the committee this is how

[0:45:27] Voice 8: we're tracking work um it's somewhat obvious but as you say go do something it will go on this list

[0:45:33] Voice 8: and you will be able to return to that um and regularly and see where we are you can see just

[0:45:39] Voice 8: as a summary we've completed the items that the governance committee previously asked for and

[0:45:44] Voice 8: um this will this will be one of the key management tools that we use going forward

[0:45:48] Voice 8: thank you and

[0:45:49] Voice 6: that's the activity that's amend policy 2.3.1 well when you make a motion

[0:45:55] Voice 6: about

[0:45:56] Voice 8: well if if you deliberate and you decide we want to take this course you make a motion

[0:46:01] Voice 8: and direct it would go on this list and that makes it my responsibility to report back to

[0:46:06] Voice 8: you on the progress of that item or any other item

[0:46:08] Voice 6: we need to keep track of the kinds of things we

[0:46:13] Voice 6: want to discuss so if that can help if this list can help us to remind us of that then um let's

[0:46:23] Voice 6: add it to the list well

[0:46:25] Voice 8: i think you should madam chair with uh i think you should discuss that very

[0:46:30] Voice 8: consideration how do you want to track your ideas this tends to track your decisions that you want

[0:46:36] Voice 8: us to go do and so i direct a resource towards that and i and and to get that work done whether

[0:46:43] Voice 8: it's david myself laurie or someone else in the organization takes on that work um there may be

[0:46:48] Voice 8: another mechanism that we can assist you with that that is a parking lot or a means of tracking ideas

[0:46:55] Voice 8: and you can certainly discuss that and then ask us to to to work with you on it all

[0:47:00] Voice 6: right i'm going

[0:47:00] Voice 6: to suggest that we find a parking lot for this and we not spend much more time on it today and that

[0:47:06] Voice 6: we make sure that we come back to it so that it's um it sounds like an important discussion um but

[0:47:15] Voice 6: but we got a lot of those on our plate.

[0:47:17] Trustee Bernardo: I have a parking lot suggestion.

[0:47:19] Voice 6: Yes.

[0:47:20] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[0:47:23] Trustee Bernardo: I think the CEO's observation is well taken

[0:47:27] Trustee Bernardo: that this list is really a matter, you know,

[0:47:32] Trustee Bernardo: for keeping track of what staff's assignments are

[0:47:35] Trustee Bernardo: and progress there.

[0:47:37] Trustee Bernardo: What we're talking about the parking lot

[0:47:40] Trustee Bernardo: is that we need a different mechanism

[0:47:43] Trustee Bernardo: for keeping track of the assignments we give ourselves

[0:47:46] Trustee Bernardo: as a committee and the tasks that we think we need to do.

[0:47:50] Trustee Bernardo: And it occurs to me that this might well be a perfect job

[0:47:56] Trustee Bernardo: to delegate to the Vice Chair to basically running tab

[0:48:00] Trustee Bernardo: on the assignments subject to the Vice Chair agreeing.

[0:48:06] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:48:10] Voice 5: Jamie, Trustee Harris.

[0:48:14] Voice 15: Thanks.

[0:48:14] Voice 15: Thanks. Yeah, it sounds like a great idea, Joe. I also have some ideas for things to park in the parking lot. So, yeah,

[0:48:26] Voice 5: let's do that.

[0:48:31] Voice 5: All right.

[0:48:32] Voice 5: And I

[0:48:32] Trustee Bernardo: expect in short order, Trustee Harris will have a brilliant idea of work for me as well.

[0:48:42] Voice 6: All right. One of your many hats then, Trustee Harris, is going to be the parking lot attendant.

[0:48:46] Voice 6: and all right so um i can't get out of this screen is there anything else that we need to do with

[0:48:54] Voice 6: this list chair

[0:48:59] Voice 5: locum ex

[0:49:01] Trustee Luckham: officio uh locum be great um just thinking about the parking lot because

[0:49:06] Trustee Luckham: indeed i i think the parking lot is going to be quite big um as there's lots of uh attention on

[0:49:15] Trustee Luckham: on the governance report and an expectation of work

[0:49:18] Trustee Luckham: to be conducted by this committee.

[0:49:20] Trustee Luckham: And the sort of the practice within the Islands Trust,

[0:49:24] Trustee Luckham: and I don't see it on this agenda with LTCs and committees

[0:49:29] Trustee Luckham: is to have the parking lot sort of labeled in my mind,

[0:49:34] Trustee Luckham: anyway, as the projects list in order for there to be

[0:49:37] Trustee Luckham: an accountability back to the committee and the agenda

[0:49:41] Trustee Luckham: that the vice chair in this particular case

[0:49:44] Trustee Luckham: that would handle that uh parking lot situation but um so that it's also uh available to the

[0:49:50] Trustee Luckham: public as well is that if there's a mechanism like that and that's been effective for us at

[0:49:55] Trustee Luckham: ltcs and other committees i would suggest that that be a standing item on the agenda trustee

[0:50:05] Voice 5: stamford um

[0:50:08] Trustee Stamford: this is a again just a practice we've done with our local trust committee is um

[0:50:15] Trustee Stamford: um activities of the trustees themselves so that would be the committee members also goes on the

[0:50:23] Trustee Stamford: fuel list um and it's just a practice that we've done and instead of so the responsibility would be

[0:50:31] Trustee Stamford: whoever on the committee has agreed to to look further into it or we leave it blank as

[0:50:36] Trustee Stamford: doing through the projects list so that's just something we've done at our

[0:50:40] Voice 5: local trust committee

[0:50:41] Voice 5: All right.

[0:50:50] Voice 6: Trustee Harris, can I delegate to you trying to figure out how you want to organize, whether it's a project list or an ongoing, some form of reminder so that we've got, we can track all, there's going to be all these ideas that come forward.

[0:51:07] Voice 6: it in the last trust meeting there were i think there were four so we're going to have to keep

[0:51:11] Voice 6: track of what we've got time for and what we want to focus on and um if you can help organize what

[0:51:17] Voice 6: that's going to look like for us to be able to reference both the public and ourselves that

[0:51:22] Voice 6: would be very helpful i think

[0:51:25] Voice 15: trustee peters sorry and hopefully we can um we'll be able to

[0:51:31] Voice 15: talk um clearly about this more um outside of the meeting um structure i'm trustee

[0:51:41] Voice 5: madam chair yep

[0:51:45] Voice 6: trustee peterson has got his hand up trustee stamford your hand is still up

[0:51:50] Voice 6: and was that you no stuff no

[0:51:54] Voice 8: no okay

[0:51:56] Voice 14: trustee peterson okay yeah thank you chair um so i like

[0:52:02] Voice 14: the idea of capturing our uh you know these ideas as we as we go along and a parking lot on the

[0:52:10] Voice 14: agenda is is certainly a good way for us to find it i wonder also if we if it might be something

[0:52:17] Voice 14: that we could post into the the web dav area of the governance uh committee page there maybe staff

[0:52:25] Voice 14: could advise if that's something that could be doable so that it's uh easy to access

[0:52:33] Voice 14: for us there as well all

[0:52:37] Voice 6: right perhaps without getting into the details now i'm looking at the

[0:52:43] Voice 6: time and we've got 10 to 11 and we've got a fairly long agenda to go into so if staff can

[0:52:53] Voice 6: we can table that for staff to advise us on whether or not we can get into access to web

[0:52:59] Voice 6: web dev or one of these other um resources that okay good um so i think we're down to eight

[0:53:10] Voice 6: and business work program items 8.1 trust program committee follow-up action list

[0:53:18] Voice 6: item referred to governance committee what is that

[0:53:25] Voice 8: madam chair do you want me to provide

[0:53:26] Voice 8: brief overview so i would as a member of the governance committee i'd get ready for a number

[0:53:32] Voice 8: of referrals to yourself on omnibus topics um what you've got here is a long-standing

[0:53:42] Voice 8: consideration around how to rationalize delivery and integration of all types of services across

[0:53:49] Voice 8: the trust area i'd humbly suggest this came out of the salt spring referendum the results of that

[0:53:56] Voice 8: in 16-17 and given the result the idea that we have to get together all these various

[0:54:05] Voice 8: institutions the regional districts improvement districts islands trust and others to see how

[0:54:10] Voice 8: we could integrate services better then at the islands trust that matured into a conversation

[0:54:15] Voice 8: around how do we do that across the whole trust area trust programs committee ended

[0:54:19] Voice 8: up taking on that question and you see it formulated here in italics

[0:54:26] Voice 8: And then it's just sat there as an idea.

[0:54:29] Voice 8: Time has gone on.

[0:54:30] Voice 8: There has been a variety of different pieces of work done on Island, on Salt Spring itself, which I won't really speak to.

[0:54:39] Voice 8: Trustee Patrick could.

[0:54:42] Voice 8: So it's a global piece.

[0:54:45] Voice 8: It has not been advanced significantly.

[0:54:47] Voice 8: It obviously speaks to some degree to governance and how we work with others.

[0:54:52] Voice 8: And I expect that's why Trust Programs Committee has referred it to you for your consideration.

[0:54:56] Voice 8: there hasn't been any work done on it in a substantial period of time there was consideration

[0:55:02] Voice 8: of removing it from the the workflow of trust programs committee but that did that didn't

[0:55:10] Voice 8: happen it just went went in advance and now it's being referred to yourselves

[0:55:14] Voice 5: all right

[0:55:18] Voice 5: one of the many things to consider so

[0:55:24] Voice 6: let's get into the meeting structure discussion

[0:55:28] Voice 6: discussion. What are people's preferences in terms of getting through this? What could become

[0:55:38] Voice 6: a mountain of ideas and suggestions? Any thoughts at this point? It's early on, but

[0:55:48] Voice 6: how do you want to try and handle all of this? I hear people saying that we need to spend some

[0:55:53] Voice 6: time going through in detail and analyzing the governance report. And then we're getting all

[0:55:59] Voice 6: of these references and and referrals and ideas from everybody so how do we how do we handle this

[0:56:05] Voice 6: as a committee trustee

[0:56:11] Voice 5: bernardo mute you're muted apologies thank you for correcting me um

[0:56:25] Voice 5: i

[0:56:25] Trustee Bernardo: think it's helpful that um uh that previous item uh leads actually kind of naturally into

[0:56:32] Trustee Bernardo: this meeting structure because basically uh we had another committee it sees a problem it thinks we

[0:56:40] Trustee Bernardo: we should deal with it and sent it over to us, like, fix this for us.

[0:56:44] Trustee Bernardo: That's what it adds up to.

[0:56:46] Trustee Bernardo: Whether we do that or not, I think, first of all, on something like that,

[0:56:50] Trustee Bernardo: it's open to us to say, well, that's a good idea.

[0:56:53] Trustee Bernardo: We think we will take that on.

[0:56:55] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think we're necessarily bound to take, you know,

[0:56:59] Trustee Bernardo: the hot potatoes that people want to lob at us.

[0:57:01] Trustee Bernardo: We don't necessarily have to catch them.

[0:57:05] Trustee Bernardo: But it does lead into the question of how do we deal with such things?

[0:57:10] Trustee Bernardo: How do we deal with the issues before us? And our immediate experience today with the formality of the type of meeting structure that we have here and which is prevalent in the Islands Trust, from my vantage point, simply militates against the kind of deep deliberation that we need to undertake on this committee in particular.

[0:57:38] Trustee Bernardo: particular like i said before i don't have any magic answers uh at least not yet but um i think

[0:57:47] Trustee Bernardo: but i'm unsure about this i mean the formality of this type of meeting is important when it comes

[0:57:54] Trustee Bernardo: time to arrive at a definite decision of this committee about what it's going to recommend

[0:58:03] Trustee Bernardo: but in the lead-up to that the type of deliberation working i mean we did a certain

[0:58:08] Trustee Bernardo: amount of hashing out a few ideas for example about the parking lot and that sort of stuff

[0:58:12] Trustee Bernardo: this type of meeting structure is just not that well suited to it so i mentioned before the idea

[0:58:20] Trustee Bernardo: of having discrete working groups you can toddle off do some work come back and report but i think

[0:58:26] Trustee Bernardo: we also need to contemplate the possibility of having different types of meetings outside of

[0:58:32] Trustee Bernardo: the framework of this type of meeting where there is not going to be any decision made it is really

[0:58:38] Trustee Bernardo: really essentially a brainstorming session

[0:58:39] Trustee Bernardo: that might be focused on this or that item

[0:58:42] Trustee Bernardo: so that we can just efficiently go through some ideas

[0:58:46] Trustee Bernardo: before we bring them back for more structured discussion

[0:58:50] Trustee Bernardo: or resolution at a meeting like this.

[0:58:56] Trustee Bernardo: That's at least one idea.

[0:58:57] Trustee Bernardo: That's at least being open to the idea

[0:59:01] Trustee Bernardo: of having different types of meetings

[0:59:03] Trustee Bernardo: for different purposes.

[0:59:07] Trustee Bernardo: There's a lot more to say about that,

[0:59:09] Trustee Bernardo: But I don't want to take up all the airtime.

[0:59:11] Trustee Bernardo: I'll just leave that out there for discussion for now.

[0:59:13] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[0:59:14] Voice 6: Trustee Middleton.

[0:59:17] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair.

[0:59:18] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, echoing Trustee Bernardo's comments, it was, I would dare say, a central theme

[0:59:25] Trustee Middleton: in the governance review that the decision-making bodies, the leadership bodies, the political

[0:59:32] Trustee Middleton: bodies of the trust need to shift from a sort of a performative or a procedural approach

[0:59:39] Trustee Middleton: approach to doing business to a more deliberative approach um where just exactly as trusting about

[0:59:46] Trustee Middleton: I said and others that uh there is time taken to air issues have a back and forth not necessarily

[0:59:51] Trustee Middleton: be bound into a um a decision i.e not necessarily um using form of discussion that's initiated by

[1:00:00] Trustee Middleton: By putting emotion on the floor, but rather something perhaps a bit more naturalistic free free flowing and one of the suggestions, I would have, and I know this might not.

[1:00:11] Trustee Middleton: That this might be a bit difficult to entertain but is to basically give us more time and then how I think we get more time is, we have more meetings and i'd suggest that.

[1:00:20] Trustee Middleton: certainly as we're inaugural a monthly meeting would not be out of order it might be very useful

[1:00:26] Trustee Middleton: and it could be as trustee minota suggests not necessarily every meeting needs to be a full-on

[1:00:31] Trustee Middleton: business meeting some could be constituted differently to permit more broad-based

[1:00:35] Trustee Middleton: discussion but i think in order to move towards being more deliberative i think we just need more

[1:00:41] Trustee Middleton: we will need more time than perhaps is currently envisaged in the in the meeting structure um

[1:00:48] Trustee Middleton: um so that would be my my first concrete suggestion I think thank

[1:00:53] Voice 5: you thanks trustee

[1:00:55] Voice 5: Stanford uh yes thanks um I I

[1:01:01] Trustee Stamford: hear what um the former trust the other trustees are saying and

[1:01:07] Trustee Stamford: I think there needs to be room for that because I agree with trustee Middleton it often fell back

[1:01:13] Trustee Stamford: to that well we really haven't talked about it and there was a variety of reasons and I'm talking

[1:01:19] Trustee Stamford: historical year and you know we have to always acknowledge that 26 of us is a big number and

[1:01:27] Trustee Stamford: COVID really put a spanner in the works given that so for instance the the the briefing that

[1:01:34] Trustee Stamford: we just saw there is a huge project and not something we can just sort of pick up and say

[1:01:40] Trustee Stamford: okay subcommittee made of three individuals is going to come up with recommendations

[1:01:44] Trustee Stamford: recommendations we need that deeper conversation but for now I think we also have to do something

[1:01:53] Trustee Stamford: with that briefing report so that staff and everyone else is assured that it isn't going to

[1:01:59] Trustee Stamford: drop off and I don't think a parking lot in this particular on that particular briefing is is good

[1:02:06] Trustee Stamford: enough we need to say this will go on our projects list and we will deal with it in a much better

[1:02:13] Trustee Stamford: better way than we've we've done so in the in the past um that I mean that could be a whole

[1:02:21] Trustee Stamford: committee on its own that particular subject but I don't want to see it kind of get lost

[1:02:26] Trustee Stamford: I want us to be able to do something with it put it off to the side knowing that we're going to be

[1:02:32] Trustee Stamford: able to come back to it and then talk about yes how do we have those proper discussions

[1:02:40] Voice 6: trustee Patrick oh sorry thank you

[1:02:44] Trustee Patrick: uh i think we really have to find or be allowed to be experimental um you know i i like i think

[1:02:55] Trustee Patrick: uh joe bernardo said it in some in another meeting we have to be able to have talk about

[1:03:00] Trustee Patrick: those dumb ideas and feel comfortable raising things and and um you know try things fail

[1:03:08] Trustee Patrick: scale, learn, you know, and, and I think we can demonstrate, you know, we, in a way, we're kind

[1:03:15] Trustee Patrick: of demonstrating some of the governance, you know, changes that may maybe end up being recommendations

[1:03:21] Trustee Patrick: that we make to, to the, to the organization. So I think, you know, we need to have a bit of

[1:03:25] Trustee Patrick: latitude with this committee to, to be on that experimental side and, and feel comfortable that

[1:03:31] Trustee Patrick: that we can be out there and out of the box thinking and, you know, play a little bit.

[1:03:38] Trustee Patrick: I go by the old saying there, you have to go slow to go fast.

[1:03:43] Trustee Patrick: You know, we have to take that time and understand and try things.

[1:03:48] Trustee Patrick: And that's what I'm hoping.

[1:03:52] Voice 6: Well, I'm most familiar with brainstorming and working groups and all of these formalities.

[1:03:57] Voice 6: You'll notice they're not my forte, but I think we'll get there.

[1:04:01] Voice 6: Chair Luckham.

[1:04:02] Voice 6: Sorry, ex officio.

[1:04:09] Trustee Luckham: There we go.

[1:04:10] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:04:11] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I'm inclined at this.

[1:04:15] Trustee Luckham: You know, this is, as Trustee Middleton and others of you have indicated, this is a central

[1:04:22] Trustee Luckham: theme to LTCs, to council, to committees.

[1:04:29] Trustee Luckham: And it's interesting that it comes full circle back to the governance committee, whom is

[1:04:35] Trustee Luckham: is being asked to think about this stuff

[1:04:40] Trustee Luckham: is struggling within that same framework

[1:04:42] Trustee Luckham: of what is the community charter and the Local Government Act

[1:04:45] Trustee Luckham: and the necessity for open meetings, public meetings.

[1:04:50] Trustee Luckham: And one, you can't go too far down this road

[1:04:54] Trustee Luckham: without acknowledging that municipalities

[1:04:58] Trustee Luckham: often have their council

[1:05:00] Trustee Luckham: and they have committee of the whole.

[1:05:02] Trustee Luckham: And I'm interested to know from staff through the chair, what opportunities or how would we investigate opportunities that might exist for this central theme throughout the Islanders Trust to facilitate that, what I'm going to frame as the committee as a whole concept,

[1:05:28] Trustee Luckham: which is implemented throughout other models

[1:05:32] Voice 5: of local government?

[1:05:36] Voice 5: Madam Chair?

[1:05:38] Voice 5: Please.

[1:05:40] Voice 5: Yeah, so

[1:05:40] Voice 8: by all means, if you want to test some new ideas

[1:05:47] Voice 8: and how you would organize yourselves and have your conversations,

[1:05:51] Voice 8: you would sort of define the criteria or come up with the idea and say,

[1:05:58] Voice 8: well, this is what it would be characterized as.

[1:06:00] Voice 8: and then you would task me with going out and testing it against the community charter testing

[1:06:05] Voice 8: against the local government act i believe you do have some latitude that you could exercise

[1:06:09] Voice 8: and we could also test it against other jurisdictions who do the same thing

[1:06:13] Voice 8: whether it's the use of um the committee of the whole structure or um shirt sleeve sessions or

[1:06:21] Voice 8: whatever it is um at least you would have some parameters um that you would you could feel

[1:06:28] Voice 8: fairly strong you could stand on some strong ground and it's not to say that

[1:06:35] Voice 8: has to be the way it is by any means so I would suggest you would task us with

[1:06:41] Voice 8: providing you some of those options or some of that room and

[1:06:47] Voice 5: we would report

[1:06:47] Voice 5: back to you okay trustee Bernardo yes

[1:06:52] Trustee Bernardo: CEO Hudson pillars remarks bring us to

[1:07:01] Trustee Bernardo: i think uh right to the edge of a hard point that i think has to be one of those early things that

[1:07:12] Trustee Bernardo: we figure out for ourselves on the governance committee and by doing so possibly figure out

[1:07:19] Trustee Bernardo: for the benefit of the rest of the island's trust which is let's be clear about why we are find

[1:07:28] Trustee Bernardo: ourselves in this frustrating position that nobody likes, nobody thinks is functional,

[1:07:34] Trustee Bernardo: but everybody feels obligated that we are constrained to have somehow to have these

[1:07:40] Trustee Bernardo: meetings. There's a belief out there that we're somehow constrained to have meetings only in this

[1:07:44] Trustee Bernardo: fashion. And the reason I say that is because this is the only type of meeting I've encountered so

[1:07:49] Trustee Bernardo: far, this type of formal meeting. And if you'll recall our briefings as newcomers to this,

[1:07:56] Trustee Bernardo: we heard a tremendous amount about the no quorum rule we heard about how closed meetings are off

[1:08:03] Trustee Bernardo: limits except for some extreme cases and i think what we have is a problem here and it is a problem

[1:08:10] Trustee Bernardo: is our traditional interpretation of the no quorum rule and the veil and the availability

[1:08:16] Trustee Bernardo: of closed meetings is a thing that gets in the way of having open discussion

[1:08:21] Trustee Bernardo: Josh, most working groups, if a committee is supposed to be a working group, you have to ask yourself the question, what value is there to having a working group discussing, going through a whole bunch of a portfolio of ideas, some that are good, some that are just wacky, and struggling through all of that, basically thinking out loud.

[1:08:47] Trustee Bernardo: That process of work, having a working group where you're where you're really just, you know, it's the sausage making process.

[1:08:54] Trustee Bernardo: It's messy. It's confusing. Everybody gets things wrong.

[1:09:00] Trustee Bernardo: Having an audience when there is no decision actually to be made, you're just trying to get your thoughts clear.

[1:09:07] Trustee Bernardo: It's not clear to me that that that has anything to do with transparency.

[1:09:11] Trustee Bernardo: Transparency really relates to the reasoning that goes into making a decision.

[1:09:18] Trustee Bernardo: But it's not the reasoning that goes into a decision when you've got people who are just hashing out ideas as a working group.

[1:09:25] Trustee Bernardo: And I can see that some committee meetings should be open to the public for purposes of transparency because they're leading to a decision of the trust council and may well be the decision of a committee might be determinative or puts tremendous amount of weight in favor of one direction of a decision or not.

[1:09:46] Trustee Bernardo: but when we're actually doing for example um uh that business is trying to figure out what kind

[1:09:53] Trustee Bernardo: of parking lot are we going to have uh is that the kind of thing that should be uh you know we're

[1:09:59] Trustee Bernardo: obligated to have uh an open meeting for or can can we is there room for us to have closed meetings

[1:10:06] Trustee Bernardo: where we discuss things in this kind of way that i'm talking about this kind of just hammer and

[1:10:11] Trustee Bernardo: tongs get the work done type of informal meeting however we have this traditional interpretation

[1:10:17] Trustee Bernardo: that somehow all meetings have to be open.

[1:10:21] Trustee Bernardo: It's not clear to me from looking

[1:10:22] Trustee Bernardo: at the Islands Trust Regulation

[1:10:24] Trustee Bernardo: that that's the case with respect to committees.

[1:10:29] Trustee Bernardo: And it also seems to me that the information we've received

[1:10:35] Trustee Bernardo: about the scope of the no quorum rule

[1:10:38] Trustee Bernardo: or how to negotiate through

[1:10:39] Trustee Bernardo: or navigate through the no quorum rule,

[1:10:43] Trustee Bernardo: the advice we've been given is very conservative

[1:10:45] Trustee Bernardo: conservative and i can understand the reason for that uh but i think we need a more precise

[1:10:51] Trustee Bernardo: understanding of how far we can go in terms of having discussions offline so and that's another

[1:10:59] Trustee Bernardo: variation on this idea of of being able to simply just do the heavy lifting of the work before we

[1:11:05] Trustee Bernardo: bring it forward to a more formal formal environment so i do think revisiting the

[1:11:11] Trustee Bernardo: traditional interpretation of uh whether or not we can have closed meetings uh for committees

[1:11:16] Trustee Bernardo: and and the true scope of the no quorum rule um for example does the no quorum rule should it

[1:11:24] Trustee Bernardo: does it really apply to committees that do not make decisions um it's a question but i think

[1:11:33] Trustee Bernardo: if we're going to get to a meeting structure that allows us to do some of this work

[1:11:36] Trustee Bernardo: in an efficient and effective way i think we have to examine that thank you

[1:11:41] Trustee Bernardo: chair luckham your

[1:11:44] Voice 5: hand is still up is did you want to speak again no okay trustee peterson

[1:11:49] Voice 5: yeah

[1:11:54] Voice 14: thank you and uh um i just wanted to say that uh if i'm hearing what the the uh cao has

[1:12:04] Voice 14: said as far as uh trying to provide some direction to staff to help us uh look at

[1:12:12] Voice 14: addressing the issues that trustee just bernardo just brought up in terms of what

[1:12:17] Voice 14: you know what where is our wiggle room what uh sort of shirt sleeve or what other approach we

[1:12:23] Voice 14: might be able to take uh so um just suggest that we all consider what the direction to staff on

[1:12:30] Voice 14: that might look like and i would just offer um in the meantime that my recollection of the working

[1:12:37] Voice 14: groups within trust programs committee last year we of course those working

[1:12:45] Voice 14: groups were below quorum which in this committee would be groups of three but

[1:12:50] Voice 14: that those working group sessions were not public sessions to my recollection

[1:12:56] Voice 14: and if I'm incorrect please correct me so just putting that concept is

[1:13:03] Voice 14: something that I believe we can do short term without further advice if I am

[1:13:08] Voice 14: am right thank

[1:13:09] Voice 5: you thanks trustee stamford um i'd like to hear what

[1:13:16] Trustee Stamford: um ceo has been telling us to

[1:13:18] Trustee Stamford: say okay

[1:13:21] Voice 8: are you okay uh yes please so i recommend that you request us to to that you take some time

[1:13:29] Voice 8: right now and paint a picture of what would work for you and you ask us to get a legal opinion

[1:13:34] Voice 8: around that and we actually paint the picture and try and paint the picture that you're interested

[1:13:38] Voice 8: in and try and see where the, I'm not going to say the soft spot, but the opportunities are to

[1:13:45] Voice 8: achieve exactly what you're talking about. And I do believe that it'll be a holdover opportunity

[1:13:51] Voice 8: for other committees and trust counsel as well. And I'm happy to take on that work. And what I

[1:13:58] Voice 8: would recommend is the question and the criteria associated with what you want to do, the formulation

[1:14:06] Voice 8: of that is so important so that we do get an opinion that is is workable and I'm happy to

[1:14:13] Voice 8: work with the chair for instance on formulating that question if you don't want to go through

[1:14:18] Voice 8: the next hour and a half of trying to formulate exactly what that is but you could establish some

[1:14:23] Voice 8: criteria ask this ask the general question I could work with the chair to refine it into the request

[1:14:29] Voice 8: for a legal opinion and second I do want to address trustee Peterson indeed we do did have

[1:14:34] Voice 8: have subgroups um from trust programs committee but i'll also point out this real fact that was

[1:14:41] Voice 8: not uncontroversial and we did get responses from the public to say that the trust pro the trust

[1:14:49] Voice 8: programs committee was um wasn't everybody in the community but we did get responses saying those

[1:14:54] Voice 8: decisions and recommendations whether correct or not were being made quietly um and we had

[1:15:00] Voice 8: challenges indeed there's trustees who didn't like that process so it's it's um i absolutely

[1:15:06] Voice 8: will dedicate my time to finding the the area that you want to examine and get you that information

[1:15:14] Voice 8: back and you can then see how you want to proceed thanks thank

[1:15:20] Trustee Stamford: you trustee stamford yeah and i'll

[1:15:23] Trustee Stamford: promise i won't do this too much but as i'm learning the the ropes for regional district

[1:15:29] Trustee Stamford: we often have meetings um i wouldn't call them closed i mean the terminology is important here

[1:15:36] Trustee Stamford: it's not closed nor they are they in camera they're just meetings to come together to discuss

[1:15:42] Trustee Stamford: operational issues and we sit around table say here's some problems how can we figure them out

[1:15:48] Trustee Stamford: where do they go in terms of um motions or to advance for the business so meaning where do

[1:15:55] Trustee Stamford: they go do they go to the policy committee do they go to the community of the whole which um we've

[1:16:02] Trustee Stamford: just talked about before committees of the whole i'm finding are actually quite structured

[1:16:08] Trustee Stamford: but they are that's the place that further deeper discussion is made and then recommendations from

[1:16:14] Trustee Stamford: the committee of the whole then go to the board or the equivalent of trust council

[1:16:20] Trustee Stamford: so they are committees but they are more formal than just getting together and and chatting but

[1:16:26] Trustee Stamford: it's only operational items and then also other things that we do that aren't um specifically

[1:16:33] Trustee Stamford: out there for the public is when we meet um with other bodies such as first nations or

[1:16:41] Trustee Stamford: um regional districts trust um local trust committees those are not public meetings of

[1:16:48] Trustee Stamford: of themselves and that's where we discuss items again we don't make resolutions but we then go

[1:16:54] Trustee Stamford: back to our own uh structure to make those resolutions thank

[1:17:02] Voice 5: you trustee harris so

[1:17:11] Voice 15: what

[1:17:12] Voice 15: i'm envisioning is something what like um kate has just mentioned trustee stamford rather um

[1:17:19] Voice 15: and what everybody else has been saying previous um you know a non-formal type of meeting

[1:17:29] Voice 15: that we could have um where we create awareness of an issue off of one of the one of the um

[1:17:40] Voice 15: parking lot issues so we would create awareness of the issue where everybody gets the exact same

[1:17:48] Voice 15: information not via email or whatever it is but something we can present at the meeting so

[1:17:53] Voice 15: everyone has the same idea of what we're talking about and then um again that's not um we're not

[1:17:59] Voice 15: making any resolutions um at that moment and then possibly um we would then brainstorm come up with

[1:18:07] Voice 15: ideas on how to possibly solve the um the issue or and then that would basically be the structure of

[1:18:17] Voice 15: that meeting and then we could come back to a formal meeting where we would agree on a solution

[1:18:21] Voice 15: or recommendation and possibly make a motion on

[1:18:24] Voice 5: that just some thoughts thank you anybody else

[1:18:32] Voice 5: i'm going to suggest that we

[1:18:33] Voice 6: um refer this to staff and that um staff and i work through what

[1:18:41] Voice 6: kind of a question it would be um i know what uh at the municipality here on bone we're working

[1:18:48] Voice 6: through the concept of workshops and i've asked rust for a copy of the whatever the litigation

[1:18:53] Voice 6: was that started this whole process in terms of limiting uh open and closed meetings so um

[1:18:59] Voice 6: I think in terms of formulated, before we go and involve a legal opinion, figuring out what exactly it is that we want to, what the background is, why this has happened, whether or not we've got any wiggle room in that original litigation, that decision, and see what the language is that possibly gives us some openings.

[1:19:24] Voice 6: So whether it's shirt sleeve sessions or whether it's workshops, I agree with Trustee Stamford that the Committee of the Whole we're finding over here is certainly opens it up longer in terms of allowing the public to have more input and longer discussions.

[1:19:39] Voice 6: But again, there's limitations and there's formalities and it's not a wide open discussion.

[1:19:46] Voice 6: So it's not really identifying all the things we don't know.

[1:19:52] Voice 6: and that's i think what what needs to happen in some of these more open discussions so

[1:19:59] Voice 6: can we agree to let perhaps russ and i work on this and come back maybe send it out by email

[1:20:08] Voice 6: in terms of the question for a legal opinion and before whatever the next meeting is going to be

[1:20:14] Voice 6: so that we can continue the discussion with some background trustee

[1:20:21] Voice 5: middleton thank you chair

[1:20:26] Trustee Middleton: I guess in principle to what you said, certainly, but I would also say that perhaps we perhaps

[1:20:33] Trustee Middleton: have more solutions closer to hand using a bit of a hybrid approach.

[1:20:40] Trustee Middleton: For instance, our policies governing the meeting state that Robert's Rules of Order Revised

[1:20:49] Trustee Middleton: second edition i think it is um govern the uh the the flow of the meeting but i've been involved in

[1:21:00] Trustee Middleton: meetings before where that formal structure inhibited uh um conversation or necessary

[1:21:08] Trustee Middleton: input so i'm specifically thinking of engineering standards councils which are largely volunteer

[1:21:12] Trustee Middleton: members of engineers or other people in the industry where you convene where there needs

[1:21:16] Trustee Middleton: to be a formal decision made about an approach of embedding something in a CSA standard or whatnot.

[1:21:22] Trustee Middleton: But you're really going to shut the flow of the meeting down if you try to have it motion based

[1:21:28] Trustee Middleton: delivery. And so we looked at a model called the Carver model of modified consensus,

[1:21:32] Trustee Middleton: and integrated it with where money is to be expended or any other sort of like

[1:21:41] Trustee Middleton: threshold issue that would require the use of robert's rules um and we sort of had a hybrid

[1:21:47] Trustee Middleton: blend of meeting that i think we could easily do here where we have sort of like some of its

[1:21:52] Trustee Middleton: discussion based we can have discussion without table of putting a resolution on the floor

[1:21:58] Trustee Middleton: and that when we naturally come to a point where we think okay i think we've got some consensus

[1:22:02] Trustee Middleton: here moving towards an outcome we can then shift to uh the robert's rules mode i should say and it

[1:22:09] Trustee Middleton: might be that there can be some structured guidance put around how a hybrid meeting of

[1:22:13] Trustee Middleton: that nature might work um as i think trustee patrick said it would be a bit of an experiment

[1:22:18] Trustee Middleton: but i also think it would allow sort of the chair would also still be able to exercise um

[1:22:24] Trustee Middleton: her authority in the sense of if somebody's you know talking at length or we're not having full

[1:22:28] Trustee Middleton: participation the chair could you know use good uh meeting keeping skills to um uh keep us moving

[1:22:35] Trustee Middleton: So I just sort of throw that out there that without necessarily going to a legal opinion about working in the shadows or otherwise the Local Government Act, there's probably tools available to us right now where we could structure some form of a hybrid meeting that allows us to both take business decisions for the policies of Trust Council, but also have some more free-flowing kind of open discussion.

[1:23:01] Voice 5: Thank you.

[1:23:02] Voice 5: Thanks.

[1:23:03] Voice 5: Trustee Bernardo, mute.

[1:23:09] Voice 5: Sorry, just

[1:23:10] Trustee Bernardo: following up on Trustee Middleton's remark there, I think it makes sense that we ought to be cautious about not restraining ourselves and delaying things by sort of waiting on a legal opinion before we sort of start doing real things.

[1:23:29] Trustee Bernardo: and his suggestion that we look into other established formats that are in a sense

[1:23:38] Trustee Bernardo: you know still open meetings but easier to manage for open discussion while we explore the scope of

[1:23:46] Trustee Bernardo: what we can and can't do under the community charter act i think we can do both at the same

[1:23:51] Trustee Bernardo: time and with respect uh my originally put my hand up uh because um i'm not sure it's that

[1:23:59] Trustee Bernardo: that complicated uh in terms of the kind of opinion that we need to get um i i i was just

[1:24:06] Trustee Bernardo: scribbling some thoughts right here i mean it seems to me what we need is uh to direct staff

[1:24:11] Trustee Bernardo: to obtain a legal opinion regarding the application of part four of the community charter act the

[1:24:16] Trustee Bernardo: trust council committee meetings part four of the community charter act is that's where all the

[1:24:20] Trustee Bernardo: action is and it's incorporated by reference by the island trust regulation but uh that's where

[1:24:28] Trustee Bernardo: the ambiguity is exactly how much actually is and how to interpret that incorporation by reference

[1:24:36] Trustee Bernardo: that's really the hard part of it um and depending on what we hear i think that would give us some

[1:24:43] Trustee Bernardo: guidance about the range of what we can and can't do within the legal boundaries i mean at a minimum

[1:24:51] Trustee Bernardo: as a governance committee we ought to know and be in a position to advise the trust council what the

[1:24:58] Trustee Bernardo: the real boundaries are what the real edges of what we can and can't do are i mean that's just

[1:25:05] Trustee Bernardo: like we've been operating on a certain interpretation it's not clear to me that

[1:25:11] Trustee Bernardo: that interpretation was uh informed by a proper legal opinion so uh it seems to be pretty

[1:25:16] Trustee Bernardo: straightforward have have a lawyer with the right expertise look at part four and uh resolve the

[1:25:24] Trustee Bernardo: the ambiguities that seem to be there uh so i think we could come up with that resolution

[1:25:28] Trustee Bernardo: today in

[1:25:29] Voice 5: about five minutes it wouldn't be that hard um i don't want to end up with a another

[1:25:40] Voice 6: conservative um careful uh situation if we're trying to open this up a little bit and figure

[1:25:47] Voice 6: out how to have uh more open discussions um then i think we do have to be careful how we

[1:25:55] Voice 6: phrase the question for an opinion fair

[1:26:00] Voice 5: enough i'll defer to the chair on that point

[1:26:07] Voice 5: any other comments trying to put up my hand here but it doesn't seem to be working

[1:26:17] Voice 15: um i really agree with what joe was saying about how maybe we have things that are

[1:26:24] Voice 15: things we can do that are more at hand and aren't going to take so long and uh yeah so i don't know

[1:26:34] Voice 15: what we can do to further that or if we can come to some kind of agreement or not

[1:26:41] Voice 6: in some ways we're that's what we're doing right now

[1:26:43] Voice 5: this is not

[1:26:45] Voice 5: strictly robert's rules um

[1:26:47] Voice 5: ex officio locum mute i'm just reviewing the community

[1:27:06] Trustee Luckham: charter here and um and immediately

[1:27:10] Trustee Luckham: bump into the local government act and then immediately reflect on the islands trust act

[1:27:15] Trustee Luckham: and it might be helpful and admittedly this is all the bureaucratic stuff that we're trying to

[1:27:21] Trustee Luckham: get around but those are the frameworks that are provided to us and we may be unduly encumbered

[1:27:28] Trustee Luckham: by them by choice um and i think the opportunity to uh look at this and uh embrace some of the

[1:27:36] Trustee Luckham: some of the values that are being presented here with respect to our ability to uh develop our

[1:27:42] Trustee Luckham: thoughts um without advancing business i think that's the key phrase without advancing business

[1:27:48] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, as Kate Louise has suggested, that those go back into the traditional council

[1:27:55] Trustee Luckham: mechanism for those decisions that actually advance business.

[1:27:59] Trustee Luckham: But it might be impossible, CAO Hotspiller, but I'd ask to the chair whether you might

[1:28:05] Trustee Luckham: just characterize the community charter, which is not necessarily specific to the Allen's

[1:28:12] Trustee Luckham: Trust Act, and the Local Government Act, which speaks to many of these issues in respect of the

[1:28:19] Trustee Luckham: Islands Trust Act, and those three mechanisms that are in place that are formal directions,

[1:28:26] Trustee Luckham: I would suggest. Could you offer any advice on that, or is that more complex than we could take

[1:28:32] Trustee Luckham: on in the next two minutes?

[1:28:34] Voice 8: Yeah, I'd decline the legal overview right now, but I think you've got

[1:28:40] Voice 8: ample opportunity to retest and and reconsider how you want to do this particular type of discussion

[1:28:48] Voice 8: and why not do it this is a great time um the governance committees indicated that this is a

[1:28:53] Voice 8: desire of trustees it might be valuable to actually spend some time characterizing what

[1:28:59] Voice 8: that would look like so then that would inform the the request um is it for ltcs is it for council

[1:29:07] Voice 8: committees only is it for workshops what would those conversations be like um i do think you

[1:29:13] Voice 8: have a lot you have also your internal policies you know i hear trustee middleton referring to

[1:29:19] Voice 8: embedded in policies robert's rules of order you've got room there too to um to to reconsider

[1:29:25] Voice 8: how you do those uh conduct some elements of your policy why not test those um presumptions right

[1:29:31] Voice 8: now I don't think there's anything holding you back other than those larger senior governmental

[1:29:40] Voice 8: legislative pieces that are in place that guide transparency and public governance

[1:29:48] Voice 8: so I do think there's room to test this it hasn't been tested at the Allen's trust in a

[1:29:53] Voice 8: number of years by all means but characterizing actually what you want might be

[1:30:00] Voice 5: of value trustee peterson yeah thank you so um what

[1:30:14] Voice 14: i just heard from uh what i think i just

[1:30:18] Voice 14: heard from the cal uh is a consideration that actually i think it would be useful for us um

[1:30:26] Voice 14: uh and useful for the organization uh which is when he said um if we're looking at these

[1:30:36] Voice 14: these options right now we've been talking about how this committee can work uh perhaps a little

[1:30:44] Voice 14: less formally but i i what i think i heard from the cao is that um it may be worth examining

[1:30:54] Voice 14: those different levels uh of local trust committees of trust council committees

[1:31:00] Voice 14: and see what the options are in those different levels

[1:31:06] Voice 14: because I think that the issues we're running up against right now

[1:31:13] Voice 14: that we're discussing trying to find ways around,

[1:31:15] Voice 14: my experience is that those are also experienced

[1:31:20] Voice 14: at local trust committee levels,

[1:31:22] Voice 14: are also experienced in other committees.

[1:31:24] Voice 14: So as far as actually providing some value for the organization,

[1:31:27] Voice 14: uh i think it's worth i want us to to do this work uh to enable our meeting uh process to get

[1:31:37] Voice 14: to the place where we're all sort of aspiring to get to but i'm i'm i'm hearing that there's

[1:31:42] Voice 14: some value in in in pursuing this with respect to those other bodies of trust of of the island's

[1:31:49] Voice 14: trust uh to provide maybe some some wider value to the whole organization in providing options

[1:31:55] Voice 14: of the sort that we're we're uh aspiring to to look at here so i just wanted to emphasize that

[1:32:04] Voice 14: yeah

[1:32:05] Voice 5: municipal levels too trustee bernardo um if um but

[1:32:13] Trustee Bernardo: you know uh there's kind of a balance

[1:32:17] Trustee Bernardo: here i think we need to strike between um structure and uh you know being preoccupied

[1:32:24] Trustee Bernardo: with structure and getting down to the nuts and bolts of of the governance committee's work

[1:32:31] Trustee Bernardo: which is uh you know of which you know analyzing meeting structure is part of that but of course

[1:32:37] Trustee Bernardo: it's much more extensive than that that the the the um the inhibitions on open discussion the

[1:32:43] Trustee Bernardo: inhibitions on developing creative ideas that's not the only problem we have there's other things

[1:32:48] Trustee Bernardo: that are pressing so in the interim it looks like developing a more refined alternative

[1:32:56] Trustee Bernardo: meaning structure that could get general acceptance and also we're confident is

[1:33:06] Trustee Bernardo: rests on a sound legal interpretation it may well be an aggressively interpretation i don't know

[1:33:13] Trustee Bernardo: but if if it needs to rest you know whatever alternative meeting structure we have has to

[1:33:19] Trustee Bernardo: rest on a credible legal structure and that's going to take at least a little bit of time to

[1:33:23] Trustee Bernardo: define so rather than you know wait on that we could get that process underway and with the

[1:33:32] Trustee Bernardo: chair chair getty working with the cao and staff and other trustees as required uh pending that

[1:33:39] Trustee Bernardo: development uh we've already heard from trustee peterson that working groups allowed the tpc to

[1:33:45] Trustee Bernardo: get its hands around the work it had to do. Why don't we start by trying to do both here? One,

[1:33:54] Trustee Bernardo: we go down this path of investigating an alternative meeting structure. But at the

[1:34:01] Trustee Bernardo: same time, we commit to starting to do the substantive work of this committee

[1:34:08] Trustee Bernardo: committee, by what we've heard today, seems like the most effective tool that's available as of

[1:34:18] Trustee Bernardo: today, which is these working groups that are comprised of something less than a quorum.

[1:34:25] Trustee Bernardo: And I could see a situation where we establish working groups, assign tasks to them,

[1:34:31] Trustee Bernardo: and they come back and they report. Perhaps we could get the business underway that way.

[1:34:37] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you. All

[1:34:41] Voice 5: right. Any further discussion?

[1:34:44] Voice 6: I'm going to suggest that you refer the question for TAO and myself to figure out what the parameters are.

[1:34:55] Voice 6: Whereas the Local Government Act, whereas the Community Charter, whereas the Islands Trust has these limitations,

[1:35:01] Voice 6: Whereas we've got this, what we think are inhibiting and then formulate what we think should be a legal opinion in terms of how we can expand on or what the outer limits are of workshops or shirt sleeves or whatever we're going to call them.

[1:35:18] Voice 6: and then have the with respects CAO sorry Hudson Pillar then I think we're going to be able to

[1:35:31] Voice 6: paint the picture of what would what it is that we want to get around so we've got some parameters

[1:35:36] Voice 6: that we're going to explore ourselves and with the legal opinion we'll get that out to you before

[1:35:42] Voice 6: the meeting I don't know sure that we need to so we'll see that

[1:35:48] Voice 8: direction direction from the

[1:35:50] Voice 8: committee to work with you chair on um developing some options associated with um meeting structure

[1:36:00] Voice 8: at the allen's trust that

[1:36:01] Voice 6: sounds so much better trustee peterson yeah

[1:36:07] Voice 14: thanks i just uh uh called

[1:36:09] Voice 14: together a quick motion here that may be of of help i haven't sent it off to uh oh i sent it to

[1:36:14] Voice 14: the wrong staff person of course i sent it to robert barlow because i'm so used to it um the

[1:36:20] Voice 14: The motion is, I move that the Chair of Governance Committee

[1:36:24] Voice 14: work with staff to investigate options

[1:36:27] Voice 14: for less formal meeting structures.

[1:36:30] Voice 14: And I'm hoping that that provides the direction

[1:36:33] Voice 14: that staff requires and meets our needs well enough.

[1:36:39] Voice 6: CAO, is that good enough?

[1:36:41] Voice 6: That works.

[1:36:42] Voice 6: Excellent, second or please?

[1:36:46] Voice 5: Second.

[1:36:47] Voice 5: Thank you.

[1:36:49] Voice 5: Trustee Bernardo, all in favor, any opposed?

[1:36:51] Voice 5: closed hands going up for in favor okay um

[1:37:02] Voice 6: looks like it's uh unanimous i'll vote in

[1:37:08] Voice 6: favor as well all right we got a motion um so i would like some ideas from everybody

[1:37:19] Voice 6: what if we were to break into working groups let's assume that that's a possibility in

[1:37:24] Voice 6: terms of this structure that we're talking about um i'd like us to generate some ideas

[1:37:29] Voice 6: is of what you think we can how we can divide this up and break it down and and uh suggestions

[1:37:35] Voice 6: for working groups as well that would be very good input um can we move on with the agenda at this

[1:37:43] Voice 6: point business priorities discussions i think getting the structure sorted out is the the

[1:37:53] Voice 6: biggest one going through the the consultant's report is the next one trustee bernardo uh yes

[1:38:04] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, I think the chair's suggestion that we spend some time thinking about what working groups, what tasks might be appropriate for them on this interim basis.

[1:38:19] Trustee Bernardo: I think that discussion is worth having, and I think it actually naturally dovetails into the business priorities discussion, because, of course, those working groups would be doing business that we prioritized at this meeting.

[1:38:32] Trustee Bernardo: So I think the two go hand in hand. And that returns me back to the governance report. I think it would be helpful to have a more than one working group look at it, break out different chunks of it, different chunks of those recommendations.

[1:38:52] Trustee Bernardo: recommendations so that uh you could have i don't know maybe you know two or three working groups

[1:38:59] Trustee Bernardo: taking it on themselves to look at those recommendations and come back with

[1:39:04] Trustee Bernardo: uh not necessarily recommendations observations analysis whatever you want to call it but just

[1:39:10] Trustee Bernardo: a perspective that can then be create a framework for larger analysis uh by the group as a whole

[1:39:17] Trustee Bernardo: And I think that work product, and this is getting us possibly to the edge of all this scary stuff in the legislation, I don't think it does, but it would be very helpful if one of those, if the working group's work product is circulated to the other trustees, not for discussion, not for resolution, but for their information so that they are fully informed before the committee proper comes together to discuss it.

[1:39:47] Trustee Bernardo: So that way, everybody knows what the issues are. Everybody knows what the working group's perspective is. And if they agree or disagree, they come armed, ready to have a substantive discussion that hopefully can be fairly efficient in the larger context.

[1:40:02] Trustee Bernardo: So my suggestion is we form a, you know, at least a couple of working groups to take apart this report and start, you know, doing the business of analysis. And I'm happy to participate in one of those groups, and I'm happy to take on whatever, you know, recommendations, you know, people think, you know, they would like me to have a look at. Thank you.

[1:40:33] Voice 5: or sorry trustee patrick that's

[1:40:36] Trustee Patrick: all right i being a chair and having to throw these titles in front

[1:40:40] Trustee Patrick: of all the names just adds that added and i think that's that's one of the benefits of having

[1:40:44] Trustee Patrick: informal style meetings it's uh it's so much easier anyway um i just wanted to deal with sort

[1:40:50] Trustee Patrick: of the uh with annex one which is the management review of the local planning services i believe

[1:40:57] Trustee Patrick: that is that falls into the regional planning committee's work and i don't know if we could

[1:41:04] Trustee Patrick: we clarify that is that something you know does is that um i think the initial recommendations on how

[1:41:12] Trustee Patrick: that aspect of the report like i said belong fully in that committee can

[1:41:21] Voice 6: i canvas everybody

[1:41:22] Voice 6: first of all is everybody feeling up to speed in terms of having a discussion now about the

[1:41:27] Voice 6: governance report the various parts of it um i'm thinking that it would the first order of

[1:41:37] Voice 6: business would be for everybody to i like the idea of the um regular meetings and maybe more

[1:41:43] Voice 6: meetings certainly at the beginning but i i think the first order of business would be for everybody

[1:41:48] Voice 6: to um review that report be up to speed have some notes figure out what your priorities are and then

[1:41:55] Voice 6: And then divide it up in terms of whether or not things should be sent back to like Annex 1, that that should go back to some other committee, whether or not there's things that we have a deeper discussion on that governance report.

[1:42:11] Voice 6: And then we figure out how to dig into it in some depth.

[1:42:16] Voice 6: Does that appeal to anybody?

[1:42:24] Voice 5: A wall of silence.

[1:42:26] Voice 5: It appeals to me.

[1:42:27] Voice 5: My hand was up.

[1:42:35] Voice 6: CAO Hudson-Pillar, how do we, how do I set that up in terms of some sort of an agenda for the next meeting where we've, our homework is to review that report and prioritize it in our own, whatever we think needs to have more in-depth work, each of us, and then we come together and discuss that as the priority of the next meeting.

[1:43:01] Voice 8: uh madam chair i think you've summed it up right there um that could be a motion that um committee

[1:43:06] Voice 8: members do exactly as you say and then we'd record that and then we're really going to get into

[1:43:12] Voice 8: a substantial you know what is your meeting frequency um and its form in this interregnum

[1:43:18] Voice 8: as you're figuring out how to meet um what's the timing what resource stat your staff resources and

[1:43:24] Voice 8: the resources of this committee aren't infinite um and they are um they nest within the other

[1:43:31] Voice 8: committees that are here at the islands trust so how to figure out that just the date is going to

[1:43:36] Voice 8: be um something that's good i think is going to be informative to this but i think simply that task

[1:43:41] Voice 8: and um how how how staff assist you in this this is a governance committee we all get that um i

[1:43:52] Voice 8: i think um how we assist you will become obvious over time how you utilize staff to to determine

[1:43:59] Voice 8: so many things but we can certainly um take your initial direction and begin to record some of that

[1:44:07] Voice 8: material thank you

[1:44:09] Voice 6: trustee stamford um

[1:44:12] Trustee Stamford: thank you chair and something to consider and i i'm not sure

[1:44:16] Trustee Stamford: if there are other resources to look at but to look beyond the report you know look at the report

[1:44:21] Trustee Stamford: in terms of the bigger question of the islands trust.

[1:44:24] Trustee Stamford: There are things that are missing in that report.

[1:44:27] Trustee Stamford: This is the opportunity for us to say the dumb things.

[1:44:31] Trustee Stamford: Like just open it up and say, what would you really like?

[1:44:36] Trustee Stamford: Does the report address this?

[1:44:39] Trustee Stamford: What else can the governance committee look at?

[1:44:43] Trustee Stamford: This is just one part of our work is the governance report.

[1:44:47] Trustee Stamford: And we can see a lot of other items coming out of it.

[1:44:51] Trustee Stamford: So just a suggestion, when you're looking at the report, think beyond what the initial report is.

[1:44:58] Trustee Stamford: And, you know, one of the things is the Salt Spring review, what came out of that.

[1:45:04] Trustee Stamford: How does that impact our work going forward?

[1:45:08] Trustee Stamford: So there are a number of resources out there that can inform a wider question, too.

[1:45:17] Voice 6: Good.

[1:45:18] Voice 6: We've got two Salt Spring trustees on this committee, so that will be helpful.

[1:45:23] Voice 6: Trustee Middleton?

[1:45:26] thank you chair

[1:45:28] Trustee Middleton: um yeah with respect to trustee stanford's point there i i think there yeah

[1:45:34] Trustee Middleton: there's no doubt a lot of um other work the committee could take on but uh i guess i think

[1:45:42] Trustee Middleton: i take your point chair that we're doing some initial uh parsing of the work available to us

[1:45:48] Trustee Middleton: and one thing that has happened is a group of individuals have been paid to give us their

[1:45:53] Trustee Middleton: their professional insight into the organization

[1:45:55] Trustee Middleton: and come up with 15 recommendations.

[1:45:57] Trustee Middleton: So they've done some pre-work for us.

[1:46:00] Trustee Middleton: And to, I think what I understand is that we go away,

[1:46:03] Trustee Middleton: we work through those recommendations

[1:46:06] Trustee Middleton: and fair point from trustee Stanford,

[1:46:08] Trustee Middleton: if there's some additional thing

[1:46:09] Trustee Middleton: that needs to be pointed out by all means,

[1:46:11] Trustee Middleton: but then we actually use our prioritization

[1:46:15] Trustee Middleton: ideally to strive towards what I think I referred to

[1:46:18] Trustee Middleton: before they called the Carver Model

[1:46:19] Trustee Middleton: would cause modified consensus so you're not after uh uh complete unanimity um but i think that would

[1:46:28] Trustee Middleton: best these these are big recommendations that then need to quote unquote be sold through the larger

[1:46:34] Trustee Middleton: political body trust council and so the the more unified an approach and that would might involve

[1:46:41] Trustee Middleton: uh trading back and forth of priorities it might involve requests for further research into some

[1:46:46] Trustee Middleton: of them and their feasibility i would say if that could be sort of our outcome of the review is that

[1:46:51] Trustee Middleton: we have a prioritized list either with um that can be modified into straight recommendations or that

[1:46:59] Trustee Middleton: require further research um that the majority of us can get behind that would be an excellent

[1:47:06] Trustee Middleton: outcome i don't know exactly the method to get us there um i'm just throwing that that out there as

[1:47:12] Trustee Middleton: supporting the the notion with a couple of uh you know specification items tossed in

[1:47:19] Trustee Middleton: to uh i guess define success so

[1:47:22] Voice 5: yeah thank you all

[1:47:27] Voice 6: right so i'm hearing that um

[1:47:30] Voice 6: we need to look at the structure we need to look at this governance report and what's in it what's

[1:47:36] Voice 6: missing and um also include the list of what everybody is passing over to the governance

[1:47:45] Voice 6: committee and that's it's a really easy process for people to pile on great ideas but in terms

[1:47:53] Voice 6: of what we need to sort out what it is that we're prepared to actually spend some time on and what

[1:47:59] Voice 6: we've got enough time for so I think that's the priority and the agenda for the next meeting and

[1:48:06] Voice 6: hopefully we can have it informal enough that we can spend all the time on that without forgetting

[1:48:14] Voice 6: getting some of these other important parts so the motion would be for the homework for the

[1:48:21] Voice 6: committee to prepare having my motion would be that the committee members prepare for the next

[1:48:30] Voice 6: meeting with some in-depth each person doing an in-depth analysis as of the governance report

[1:48:39] Voice 6: report that was tabled, what was that, February last year?

[1:48:45] Voice 5: Trustee Peterson.

[1:48:49] Voice 14: Yeah, thank you.

[1:48:50] Voice 14: I was sort of anticipating this motion

[1:48:53] Voice 14: and I have sent to Lori Foster this time the following,

[1:49:00] Voice 14: which is I move that governance committee members

[1:49:02] Voice 14: examine the governance report and bring back notes

[1:49:05] Voice 14: and priorities for discussion at the next meeting.

[1:49:07] Voice 14: And that at least gives us something to start with.

[1:49:11] Voice 14: And if we feel we need to amend that a bit,

[1:49:13] Voice 14: that's just fine thank

[1:49:16] Voice 6: you you're good at that

[1:49:16] Voice 14: trustee

[1:49:18] Voice 6: bernardo i'm getting better

[1:49:19] Voice 6: yeah

[1:49:20] Trustee Bernardo: can i suggest that we um uh that motion include language uh to the effect

[1:49:27] Trustee Bernardo: that um trustees circulate their information um uh to the other members of the committee prior

[1:49:37] Trustee Bernardo: to the meeting you know like at least a week before the meeting sure

[1:49:44] Voice 5: that sounds good trustee

[1:49:48] Voice 5: oh

[1:49:48] Trustee Bernardo: sorry oh and it's not for this resolution but given the direction we're going in and our

[1:49:54] Trustee Bernardo: hope that we could just simply you get the product that comes out of this resolution

[1:49:59] Trustee Bernardo: gives us an opportunity to have you well basically some brainstorming and general discussion

[1:50:07] Trustee Bernardo: uh i'm thinking that we probably need to schedule uh a meeting and i appreciate the

[1:50:15] Trustee Bernardo: CAO's point that we've got to be careful here about not disrupting the apple cart here in terms

[1:50:20] Trustee Bernardo: of staff trying to balance all of its requirements. But I would like to think, I mean, there's some

[1:50:27] Trustee Bernardo: urgency behind this work. And I'd like to see us have a meeting at least like within a month or so

[1:50:34] Trustee Bernardo: or say, and that it would be dedicated just for this. No other business just to discuss this.

[1:50:42] Trustee Bernardo: so i'm hopeful that doing that would uh mean not too much work for staff and it'd be pretty

[1:50:49] Trustee Bernardo: uh and we would simply manage given the size of this committee we potentially we could have

[1:50:54] Trustee Bernardo: a discussion about just scheduling something that works for everybody and we schedule that meeting

[1:50:58] Trustee Bernardo: um for whatever day works roughly a month from here thanks trustee patrick at

[1:51:07] Trustee Patrick: the risk of sounding

[1:51:08] Trustee Patrick: like a bit of a broken record are we including this to be annex one which has a whole bunch of

[1:51:14] Trustee Patrick: recommendations in it as a loan um or is this motion and pertaining to the recommendations

[1:51:20] Trustee Patrick: in the main body of the report um i i think they're very distinctly different i think the

[1:51:26] Trustee Patrick: main body recommendations um are more about general of the governance nature where annex

[1:51:33] Trustee Patrick: next one really gets into the how we do our land use planning element so clarity would be good okay

[1:51:43] Voice 6: can we hear from cao hudson pillar first uh

[1:51:46] Voice 8: thank you madam chair so later on in your agenda we have

[1:51:49] Voice 8: meeting schedule discussion and we've got a couple uh date options for you for your consideration to

[1:51:55] Voice 8: see whether that fits into the to the um the sequencing that you like with i do want to speak

[1:52:02] Voice 8: about circulating information to other members before the meeting could we not madam chair use

[1:52:07] Voice 8: the agenda as the means by which the trustees send in their ideas if they're written and they would

[1:52:14] Voice 8: be published in the agenda and that would go forward um and you would have all of that

[1:52:19] Voice 8: information for everyone to review the reason why i bring it up is that at a trust count as you

[1:52:24] Voice 8: conduct yourselves other bodies of the islands trust will conduct themselves i expect

[1:52:29] Voice 8: at a trust council meeting we don't have trustees emailing all their ideas to all

[1:52:34] Voice 8: and having conversations going back and forth it was just the provision of that would be fine

[1:52:40] Voice 8: until we test this meeting rule otherwise we could happily use the agenda to collate that

[1:52:45] Voice 8: information get it back to you so I offer you that opportunity all

[1:52:52] Voice 6: right first trustee Peterson

[1:52:57] Voice 6: can we expand the I can't raise the motion so I can actually read it but can

[1:53:02] Voice 6: we expand your motion to include all of the report including the annexes I think

[1:53:10] Voice 6: each of us are going to come in with different emphasis and I think that open

[1:53:14] Voice 6: it up and make sure that everybody's can speak to any part of that go ahead yeah

[1:53:22] Voice 14: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[1:53:23] Voice 14: I'm perfectly happy to do that.

[1:53:25] Voice 14: And in terms of the language,

[1:53:32] Voice 14: we could say the complete governance report,

[1:53:35] Voice 14: including annexes.

[1:53:43] Voice 5: And

[1:53:44] Voice 14: in respect to the CAO's suggestion

[1:53:49] Voice 14: that our notes go to the agenda,

[1:53:54] Voice 14: agenda we could uh amend this to say that trustees uh send their information to staff but it's going

[1:54:05] Voice 14: to need to be help me out with the timing here staff a little bit more than one week prior

[1:54:11] Voice 14: to the meeting so that you have a chance to assimilate it into the agenda what would you

[1:54:16] Voice 14: prefer is 10 days better i'd

[1:54:18] Voice 8: just say prior to the next meeting get rid of the one the one week

[1:54:23] Voice 8: so yeah

[1:54:24] Voice 5: and

[1:54:25] Voice 8: we would just call it we won't be editorial editing that material we'd be

[1:54:29] Voice 8: just taking that information and putting it on the agenda for you can all review

[1:54:33] Voice 14: it sure i just

[1:54:35] Voice 14: don't want to throw last minute late night work at you with that song so i'm perfectly happy with

[1:54:40] Voice 14: that uh as as it reads now everyone else's

[1:54:45] Voice 6: trustee bernardo yeah

[1:54:48] Trustee Bernardo: i hate to bring this up but i'm a

[1:54:49] Trustee Bernardo: a little troubled by the suggestion that the trustees trusted to follow the rules my original

[1:54:57] Trustee Bernardo: suggestion is that we circulate this information to the other members of the committee for the

[1:55:01] Trustee Bernardo: purposes of them informing themselves and being so people know what's coming i was specific that

[1:55:07] Trustee Bernardo: we wouldn't discuss it because we don't really have a clear understanding of the scope of the

[1:55:13] Trustee Bernardo: no quorum rule and all that stuff i mean i think the trustees can be you know trusted to follow

[1:55:20] Trustee Bernardo: of the rules and uh i you know this you know i i get why for the record it might look tidier

[1:55:30] Trustee Bernardo: to have it on the agenda but um why is it that we can't trust the rules and trust the trustees to

[1:55:37] Trustee Bernardo: observe the uh no quorum rule just circulate the information on the understanding it's not

[1:55:41] Trustee Bernardo: going to be discussed until we get to the meeting i don't see what the problem is with that and in

[1:55:45] Trustee Bernardo: In fact, it's a little troubling, you know, quite apart from the trust issue, which is like we're just back at it again.

[1:55:53] Trustee Bernardo: We're doing the same thing this organization always seems to do, which is revert back to this restrictive approach.

[1:56:02] Trustee Bernardo: It doesn't strike me as a great way to start.

[1:56:05] Voice 6: I'm going to suggest that we circulate it to each other and with the expectation that it's going to be published as part of the agenda.

[1:56:13] Voice 6: So it's like correspondence.

[1:56:14] Voice 6: correspondence so um once you finish whatever it is that you want to um include in your report

[1:56:21] Voice 6: that that gets sent to the other members of the committee and with the understanding that it's

[1:56:25] Voice 6: going to be part of the agenda and published as well without a discussion it's just that's that's

[1:56:32] Trustee Bernardo: perfect thank you does

[1:56:34] Voice 6: that work cao hudson pillar it

[1:56:37] Voice 8: does madam chair okay

[1:56:38] Voice 6: trustee bernardo your

[1:56:41] Voice 6: hands up no okay there were trustee peterson uh

[1:56:46] Voice 14: just wanted to check back in with staff um

[1:56:51] Voice 14: are you fine with the the motion the look of the motion there in terms of direction to you

[1:56:56] Voice 14: to uh append to the agenda yes

[1:57:01] Voice 5: sir okay wonderful thank you all right so we've got a motion do we

[1:57:08] Voice 6: have did we have a seconder no thank you laurie all right stamp trustee stamford are you seconding

[1:57:18] Voice 6: it sorry

[1:57:20] Voice 8: madam chair

[1:57:21] Voice 6: yes it's

[1:57:23] Voice 8: the one week part right can't they just can't you circulate the

[1:57:27] Voice 8: information to the other members prior to the next meeting um trustee peterson asked me and

[1:57:32] Voice 8: then i quickly looked back and realized the one week part um there's

[1:57:39] Voice 6: a problem well if we just

[1:57:41] Voice 8: just

[1:57:41] Voice 6: remove one week yeah

[1:57:42] Voice 8: just remove one week and we can set we can achieve all of what's requested

[1:57:47] Voice 8: all

[1:57:51] Voice 5: right trustee stanford you still want to second that yes okay we got a motion in the

[1:58:01] Voice 5: secondary all in favor all right all

[1:58:11] Voice 6: right that looks like everybody all in favor that's unanimous

[1:58:14] Voice 6: thank you all

[1:58:16] Voice 3: right so

[1:58:20] Voice 5: back to the agenda um budget discussion can we table that till we get

[1:58:29] Voice 5: some of this other stuff worked out i don't think that's a priority is it trustee middleton

[1:58:39] Trustee Middleton: um the the only thing i would suggest is that we just ensure there is a line item

[1:58:43] Trustee Middleton: in the budget the 23 24 budget for the governance committee even if it's just budgeted as the

[1:58:51] Trustee Middleton: placeholder as a dollar because uh i believe that gives us increased flexibility following

[1:58:57] Trustee Middleton: the enactment of the budget if we do indeed need to request funds for consultants or what have you

[1:59:02] Trustee Middleton: but we don't need to come up with that budget now um uh it's so you know maybe this is slightly

[1:59:10] Trustee Middleton: premature because obviously we're the budget won't be approved but i think the fpc is currently

[1:59:14] Trustee Middleton: working on it so i would just say that we communicate to the fpc that we'd like a line

[1:59:20] Trustee Middleton: item in the budget right now it's a placeholder of a dollar but that would just allow us down the

[1:59:24] Trustee Middleton: road without knowing our current budgetary requirements to perhaps access uh funds from

[1:59:30] Trustee Middleton: the surplus account uh to to fund any currently unanticipated future expenditures okay thank you

[1:59:38] Voice 6: trustee peterson yeah

[1:59:42] Voice 14: i just wanted to point out that um this came from the financial planning

[1:59:47] Voice 14: committee meeting yesterday and there was a proposal to uh reduce the 15 000 to zero and

[1:59:59] Voice 14: And that's the.

[2:00:00] Voice 14: believe why it's in front of us today. So I just wanted to point that out to the members of this

[2:00:05] Voice 14: committee that were not viewing that meeting yesterday. So we may want to actually have a

[2:00:10] Voice 5: discussion. Trustee Stamford. Right, because that sounds like it's quite a big conversation.

[2:00:28] Voice 5: Trustee Bernardo.

[2:00:31] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you. And it may or may not be a big conversation. I hope not.

[2:00:37] Trustee Bernardo: The issue is fairly straightforward, and I'll just summarize how it emerged at the FPC,

[2:00:45] Trustee Bernardo: which is a proposal was made and a schedule was provided of proposed suspensions on spending

[2:00:52] Trustee Bernardo: in order to deal with the revenue shortfall.

[2:00:55] Trustee Bernardo: There was a vigorous discussion, went back and forth, there's pros and cons, no resolution

[2:00:59] Trustee Bernardo: with respect to the scope of suspensions or whether any should happen at all.

[2:01:05] Trustee Bernardo: it's simply all up in the air and it was decided that we needed the input from the various other

[2:01:11] Trustee Bernardo: committees and uh the governance committee has a line item that uh identifies something like

[2:01:18] Trustee Bernardo: fifteen thousand dollars for the purpose and it's identified for the purpose uh against the

[2:01:24] Trustee Bernardo: contingency that um we may need to hire expert uh advice uh that appears to be uh refers to going

[2:01:33] Trustee Bernardo: back to the consultants and engaging them to help us work things out uh the rationale that was put

[2:01:40] Trustee Bernardo: forward uh for uh suspending funding for the governance committee this budget cycle uh on

[2:01:50] Trustee Bernardo: that basis was it's just really unlikely that this committee is going to uh get to the point where

[2:01:56] Trustee Bernardo: it's actually going to need or even want expert advice we've got that report to work with plenty

[2:02:01] Trustee Bernardo: on our plate so uh that's the rationale behind the idea of um uh like saving fifteen thousand

[2:02:09] Trustee Bernardo: dollars from the budget so we can get a little closer to a balance that's the theory whether

[2:02:13] Trustee Bernardo: this committee agrees with that or not that's what the point is uh do we uh want that fifteen

[2:02:21] Trustee Bernardo: thousand dollars as a contingency to hire um an expert if necessary or do we think it's not

[2:02:26] Trustee Bernardo: necessary and we can just pass on it for this year um uh that's a that's the reasoning behind

[2:02:33] Trustee Bernardo: it and with respect to the need potentially to get legal advice about anything uh the notion was

[2:02:41] Trustee Bernardo: that those funds are available in any case from uh the general um money that is set aside

[2:02:49] Trustee Bernardo: to obtain legal advice for the islands trust uh over the course of the year uh so that's

[2:02:55] Trustee Bernardo: That's the rationale, as I understand it.

[2:02:57] Trustee Bernardo: Other people there, if I've left anything out that's relevant

[2:03:01] Trustee Bernardo: or if I've mistakenly misrepresented anything, please correct me.

[2:03:05] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[2:03:06] Voice 5: Trustee Harris?

[2:03:07] Voice 5: I

[2:03:10] Voice 15: have to say I agree with Trustee Bernardo on the issue of us already having the information in front of us

[2:03:20] Voice 15: and we're not going to need to hire any consultants in this cycle.

[2:03:26] Voice 15: and um and if it is true that we clearly have the the um the legal advice um you know

[2:03:36] Voice 15: could be made available to us through general funds then uh yeah i'm in total agreement that

[2:03:42] Voice 5: we don't shouldn't be looking for any money right now thank you trustee peterson um i just wanted to

[2:03:52] Voice 5: To

[2:03:52] Voice 14: check in with staff, because as far as I can recall, other than this $15,000 amount, there is $1,000 in the budget for the Governance Committee in this budget. Is that correct?

[2:04:10] Voice 14: That is correct, sir.

[2:04:11] Voice 14: So what I'd like to direct this committee's attention to then is if we're contemplating a certain number of meetings, if we want to contemplate in-person meetings, if we want to contemplate more than four meetings a year, that there are budgetary expenses associated with those meetings.

[2:04:37] Voice 14: meetings and i think uh you know if i put my financial planning hat back on i think that what

[2:04:48] Voice 14: uh financial planning committee would needs to hear from this committee is is what we anticipate

[2:04:54] Voice 14: uh what kind of resources we anticipate this committee will want to have beyond the thousand

[2:05:02] Voice 14: dollars which i don't think is going to contemplate uh a large expansion in our in our

[2:05:08] Voice 14: uh number of meetings so that's why i feel we need to have some discussion today what's the timeline

[2:05:14] Voice 6: on um the financial planning committee in terms of having this sorted trustee bernardo uh yeah

[2:05:22] Trustee Bernardo: i'll jump back in here uh yeah uh the next uh meeting uh i believe is scheduled for february 14th

[2:05:28] Trustee Bernardo: and uh the sooner uh we get that the financial planning committee has that information the better

[2:05:35] Trustee Bernardo: i mean obviously at fifteen thousand dollars there's other committees that um

[2:05:40] Trustee Bernardo: are sitting on on you know the analysis or the input that the financial planning committee needs

[2:05:46] Trustee Bernardo: from uh some of those other committees obviously uh more significant with respect to the impact

[2:05:52] Trustee Bernardo: on the budget but i would just following up on trustee peterson's point uh which is quite valid

[2:05:58] Trustee Bernardo: but i'd like some clarification myself from staff because um

[2:06:06] Trustee Bernardo: the my recollection of the business case for these funds was not with respect to funding

[2:06:12] Trustee Bernardo: the conduct of meetings that it was with respect to um and my understanding is that the management

[2:06:20] Trustee Bernardo: of meetings and the expenses associated with that and the staff time is rolled into other

[2:06:25] Trustee Bernardo: line items in the budget already uh i don't know if that's the case or not i stand to be corrected

[2:06:31] Trustee Bernardo: by staff but my recollection of the business case for this fifteen thousand dollars is was it was

[2:06:37] Trustee Bernardo: that it was for the hiring a contingency fund for the hiring of an expert if necessary and it wasn't

[2:06:43] Trustee Bernardo: for these other purposes um at least that's my recollection so some uh by all means i think we

[2:06:49] Trustee Bernardo: need some clarification for staff about from staff about um the operational funding requirements if

[2:06:57] Trustee Bernardo: if any, that we have to specifically identify

[2:06:59] Trustee Bernardo: for the benefit of the FPC.

[2:07:01] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[2:07:02] Voice 8: Staff.

[2:07:04] Voice 8: Thank you, Madam Chair.

[2:07:06] Voice 8: The $15,000 is political direction

[2:07:09] Voice 8: to provide for exactly that.

[2:07:12] Voice 8: That is the hiring of some expert advice if it was needed.

[2:07:16] Voice 8: And just like any other standing committee,

[2:07:18] Voice 8: they would have some resources available to them

[2:07:20] Voice 8: so they weren't handicapped.

[2:07:22] Voice 8: If they got either challenged by a difficult question

[2:07:24] Voice 8: they couldn't answer from staff perspective

[2:07:25] Voice 8: or from a trustee perspective.

[2:07:28] Voice 8: So that's what those dollars are for.

[2:07:29] Voice 8: We budget specifically for things

[2:07:31] Voice 8: for the most part here at the Hans Trust.

[2:07:34] Voice 8: With regards to the $1,000,

[2:07:35] Voice 8: that's a placeholder number.

[2:07:37] Voice 8: It doesn't contemplate you ever meeting really live.

[2:07:41] Voice 8: And I think that might be a discussion

[2:07:43] Voice 8: for a group like this that's talking

[2:07:45] Voice 8: about having opportunities

[2:07:47] Voice 8: to sit across the table from each other

[2:07:49] Voice 8: and have some substantial conversations.

[2:07:52] Voice 8: You might want to make that $3,000.

[2:07:54] Voice 8: or something that would contemplate a couple of meetings by this body that's up to you of course

[2:08:00] Voice 8: but you would need to increase that amount in order to if you wanted to meet live for instance

[2:08:06] Voice 8: you need to address that so they are in discrete different budget areas meetings of council

[2:08:13] Voice 8: committees are discreetly budgeted for and so that is all the other committee meetings have the same

[2:08:21] Voice 8: same EC Trust Programs Committee and Regional Planning Committee have had the same meeting

[2:08:26] Voice 8: discussion about how often they'll meet whether they'd have a live meeting or not.

[2:08:30] Voice 6: So $1,000 is

[2:08:32] Voice 6: set aside and with the expectation is going to be for Zoom meetings and is that correct?

[2:08:38] Voice 8: That is and

[2:08:39] Voice 8: that $1,000 is a discretionary $1,000 for you as a committee so that you have something whether it

[2:08:46] Voice 8: be a legal opinion or something else but those are operational dollars to the committee at this

[2:08:50] Voice 8: point and they're just not large enough to contemplate um live meetings or or two live

[2:08:59] Voice 8: meetings you might be able to get away with one it would be close but it tends to be all right

[2:09:03] Voice 6: how many hotel rooms if

[2:09:05] Voice 6: there's uh if that's the equation then uh and we're wanting to have more

[2:09:10] Voice 6: meetings um then it seems to me that we should be looking at some sort of a placeholder line item

[2:09:17] Voice 6: that is more in the lines of $2,000 to $3,000

[2:09:20] Voice 6: for more meetings and potentially an in-person one.

[2:09:25] Voice 6: Although that could probably be squeezed in

[2:09:28] Voice 6: with the in-person trust council meetings.

[2:09:32] Voice 6: Maybe if there's any time.

[2:09:35] Voice 8: Madam Chair?

[2:09:36] Voice 8: Yes.

[2:09:37] Voice 8: With apologies.

[2:09:38] Voice 8: The only thing I would say around the legal opinions

[2:09:40] Voice 8: is a single legal opinion, yes.

[2:09:43] Voice 8: If you get into some fundamental questions

[2:09:45] Voice 8: that you need answering

[2:09:47] Voice 8: that require some complex legal thinking and it's a possibility for the governance committee

[2:09:52] Voice 8: particularly as you've written to the minister and asked for you know some reconsideration of

[2:09:56] Voice 8: relationships you would need to account for that in in this budget some sort of

[2:10:03] Voice 8: an initial you know this first legal inquiry i think would be ably undertaken under the general

[2:10:09] Voice 8: legal advice but if you were having some substantial thinking you would need to account

[2:10:14] Voice 8: account for that financially as well other committees do the same thing they build their

[2:10:18] Voice 8: some of those legal dollars into their budget so

[2:10:23] Voice 6: that certainly has potential what are the numbers

[2:10:25] Voice 6: for something like that you

[2:10:27] Voice 8: know i would put initially five thousand dollars associated with

[2:10:30] Voice 8: something like that it's hard to know the scope of where you're you're gonna go but today you've

[2:10:35] Voice 8: already considered let's get a legal opinion so i expect that that's uh that's a possibility

[2:10:42] Voice 8: um you know a thousand dollars plus fifteen thousand dollars is not a lot of money

[2:10:46] Voice 8: for um a body that's considering the governance of the islands trust completely

[2:10:51] Voice 8: um but uh yeah i would you should at least discuss the possibility of

[2:10:58] Voice 8: needing some legal funding five thousand dollar minimum i would expect so

[2:11:06] Voice 6: that is looking like

[2:11:07] Voice 6: like a total for whatever the expenses are for meetings

[2:11:11] Voice 6: plus potential in-depth legal advice is a total of $5,000?

[2:11:17] Voice 6: I

[2:11:21] Voice 5: think that would be more like $7,500.

[2:11:29] Voice 5: All right.

[2:11:30] Voice 5: And

[2:11:31] Voice 6: at this point, we're requesting of the Financial Planning Committee.

[2:11:34] Voice 6: Indeed.

[2:11:37] Voice 6: Constable, or Constable, God, Trustee Bernardo.

[2:11:41] Trustee Bernardo: Too

[2:11:42] Voice 6: much time in the courts.

[2:11:44] Trustee Bernardo: yes well our chair has revealed something about her thinking i think

[2:11:52] Trustee Bernardo: ma'am let's have your id um

[2:11:57] Trustee Bernardo: uh about the legal opinion thing uh as we try to sort of hash out at this late date what we think

[2:12:04] Trustee Bernardo: we might need money wise uh it seems like uh there is a potential appetite out there to have

[2:12:12] Trustee Bernardo: some live meetings especially given the brainstorming nature of this committee

[2:12:18] Trustee Bernardo: so the idea of um allocating more funds 3 000 whatever is necessary against the contingency

[2:12:27] Trustee Bernardo: that we may well have a live meeting i get that rationale uh the idea of setting aside

[2:12:37] Trustee Bernardo: funds for a much more elaborate legal opinion that properly can't be funded from the general

[2:12:44] Trustee Bernardo: legal consultation fund seems to me that that's got the same the same question

[2:12:53] Trustee Bernardo: attaches to that as attaches to the expertise or the hiring of the expert

[2:12:58] Trustee Bernardo: um issue which is uh is it uh do we think over the next 11 12 months or so

[2:13:09] Trustee Bernardo: We are going to get to the point that we're going to ask or need some really in-depth legal opinion about changing the structure of the act or something like that before we go to the minister or whatnot.

[2:13:26] Trustee Bernardo: not. Right now, we have no idea. My own personal view is it's pretty unlikely because

[2:13:38] Trustee Bernardo: we've got a tremendous amount of work ahead of us and we're just starting with clearing our

[2:13:44] Trustee Bernardo: throats and getting our minds organized around this thing. I could see at some point in this term

[2:13:52] Trustee Bernardo: us having a sharp enough and big enough question that requires real professional help on the legal

[2:13:59] Trustee Bernardo: side. That's almost inevitable if we get to the point of discussing restructuring, but it's just,

[2:14:06] Trustee Bernardo: it seems to me not realistic to think we're going to get to that point this term. Other people may

[2:14:13] Trustee Bernardo: have a different view about it, but I mean, going at that speed seems unlikely to me. So I'm leaning

[2:14:19] Trustee Bernardo: towards the idea of yes let's set aside some more money let's amp up that placeholder number from

[2:14:24] Trustee Bernardo: a thousand to three or whatever is necessary against the risk that we may well have live

[2:14:30] Trustee Bernardo: meetings but uh setting aside money on a hypothetical uh legal opinion given the

[2:14:38] Trustee Bernardo: financial constraints we're under right now the cao is right we're not talking huge amounts of

[2:14:43] Trustee Bernardo: money given the scope of uh the budget as a whole but um we're running with we've got a revenue

[2:14:52] Trustee Bernardo: shortfall every bit helps so that's where we're at thank you

[2:14:57] Voice 5: trustee peterson

[2:14:58] Voice 14: um so it occurred

[2:15:02] Voice 14: to me that uh one way the committee might want to address this question and this is just my

[2:15:08] Voice 14: suggestion is that if we were to uh we're to bump up our operational funds to 3 000

[2:15:14] Voice 14: and drop that contingency down to $5,000.

[2:15:19] Voice 14: That brings us in around $8,000,

[2:15:21] Voice 14: which is exactly half of what is in the proposed budget right now,

[2:15:28] Voice 14: which I think sort of satisfy, from my point of view,

[2:15:31] Voice 14: satisfies offering a reduction of half in the budget

[2:15:37] Voice 14: and still leaving us some room to contemplate in-person meetings,

[2:15:43] Voice 14: meetings other extra meetings and some funds uh for for

[2:15:47] Voice 5: legal advice so that's my suggestion

[2:15:54] Voice 5: that's up nicely any other comments trustee Middleton uh

[2:16:05] Trustee Middleton: thank you chair yeah I I would say

[2:16:06] Trustee Middleton: that I I'm agree with Trustee Bernardo's analysis of our need for legal opinion when we're likely to

[2:16:15] Trustee Middleton: need a legal opinion it's probably going to be of such a substance that we would almost need a

[2:16:19] Trustee Middleton: business case and approval of trust counsel to go and secure those professional services legal and

[2:16:25] Trustee Middleton: otherwise um and i i i concur with his analysis that it's perhaps unlikely that we would even be

[2:16:34] Trustee Middleton: close to that position before the end of the term and i would go with the lower number

[2:16:39] Trustee Middleton: not contemplating any legal further legal opinion beyond the one um uh requested today and just

[2:16:45] Trustee Middleton: just increase the placeholder to 3,000 in contemplation of potential in-person meetings.

[2:16:50] Trustee Middleton: If we do run into an issue where we have a sudden and desperate need of advice and guidance,

[2:16:57] Trustee Middleton: clearly that's an unforeseen circumstance and there are mechanisms in place to support

[2:17:01] Trustee Middleton: the funding of such a circumstance. But it's not currently, I wouldn't say it's currently

[2:17:07] Trustee Middleton: anticipated. Next term, maybe so. Maybe we're looking at a broader business case and we need

[2:17:12] Trustee Middleton: a a suite of professional services to help us get to the next level but i i think right now we don't

[2:17:18] Trustee Middleton: know that and there's really no point as just using the what if approach uh to increase that

[2:17:24] Trustee Middleton: number so i i propose we we stick with the in increased placeholder amount of three thousand

[2:17:32] Voice 5: thank you

[2:17:33] Voice 6: trustee patrick yeah

[2:17:35] Trustee Patrick: i think i think what we're doing is we're having some strategic

[2:17:38] Trustee Patrick: conversations i think what we're kind of leaning toward is saying in this first year we're going

[2:17:42] Trustee Patrick: going to focus on things that we can do sort of low-hanging fruit so to speak things that are

[2:17:48] Trustee Patrick: within you know more simplistic and more straightforward at this time so we don't

[2:17:56] Trustee Patrick: need that bigger budget hanging around i'm

[2:18:00] Voice 6: also thinking that we've got enough to figure out that

[2:18:03] Voice 6: if we did come up with a legal question that um you know that might be a bigger parking lot kind

[2:18:10] Voice 6: of thing where we can keep track of all of the legal questions that come up and um we don't

[2:18:17] Voice 6: necessarily have to rush into it this term that it's the kinds of questions that we're going to

[2:18:21] Voice 6: be mulling around um you know if we do then it's a something that comes up at a where we've hit a

[2:18:29] Voice 6: wall and we need to get some more help and we change some things around but um if we our

[2:18:35] Voice 6: priority at this point seems to be having more meetings and being able to work through a lot

[2:18:40] Voice 6: of this as opposed to coming up with a budget for a big question trustee harris yeah you know

[2:18:49] Voice 15: lee was just mentioning there what the 3 000 um placeholder number there seems to make a lot of

[2:18:55] Voice 15: sense and um what everybody's saying you're just mentioning madam chair seems to uh resonate with

[2:19:01] Voice 15: me as well so maybe we can come to an agreement with that uh three thousand dollar placeholder

[2:19:07] Voice 15: limit then okay trustee

[2:19:11] Voice 5: peterson you got a motion for us i

[2:19:17] Voice 14: i i do not have a completed motion um

[2:19:22] Voice 14: i just wanted to uh i i just wanted to get some clarity perhaps on the notion that you know we

[2:19:31] Voice 14: have asked the the chair to work with staff on other meeting options uh what's not clear to me

[2:19:37] Voice 14: is whether that will necessarily involve formal legal advice or not.

[2:19:46] Voice 14: So that would be good to know, whether that is, it seems like a reasonable expectation

[2:19:53] Voice 14: that we would be looking at receipt of some legal advice on that particular question.

[2:20:00] Voice 14: I'm less concerned about larger, farther down the road question funding

[2:20:06] Voice 14: than I am about what we've sort of discussed

[2:20:10] Voice 14: what we want to do in the short term.

[2:20:13] Voice 6: I understood, Russ, that that would be part,

[2:20:18] Voice 6: that kind of question that we're dealing with

[2:20:20] Voice 6: in terms of structure of meetings,

[2:20:22] Voice 6: that that could be handled if there was a legal opinion

[2:20:25] Voice 6: with the general funds?

[2:20:30] Voice 8: Yes, it can, Madam Chair.

[2:20:32] Voice 8: It can.

[2:20:32] Voice 8: In terms of you considering how often you want to meet live,

[2:20:37] Voice 8: I think drives the numbers a little bit here.

[2:20:39] Voice 8: I think you have to look at $2,000 to $2,500 per live meeting.

[2:20:44] Voice 8: So I just leave that thought.

[2:20:46] Voice 8: But yes, this first legal opinion, I think, would be handled as described.

[2:20:53] Voice 5: Trustee Peterson?

[2:20:56] Voice 14: Okay.

[2:20:56] Voice 14: Well, based on that information, I'm comfortable moving that the governance committee request

[2:21:05] Voice 14: and request operational funds budget item be increased to $3,000 and that the $15,000 contingency fund be removed if that's directive enough and I apologize Laura I did not get that written out to you because I wasn't quite ready all

[2:21:31] Voice 5: right and we got a seconder trustee Bernardo all right any discussion all the question

[2:21:45] Voice 5: whoops

[2:21:46] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, I think the language needs a bit of tweaking here.

[2:21:55] Trustee Bernardo: Maybe

[2:21:56] Voice 14: referring to the 2023-24 budget.

[2:21:59] Trustee Bernardo: Operational funds in the draft 2022-2023-2024 budget be increased to $3,000, and the $15,000 contingency fund for expert advice be removed.

[2:22:36] Voice 5: I'm happy with that.

[2:22:44] Voice 5: lori i think that you're um i didn't hear your

[2:22:46] Voice 6: comment you're muted but um who it was agreed

[2:22:51] Voice 6: to okay so we've got the motion seconder agree to the amendment yes

[2:22:56] Voice 15: okay

[2:22:58] Voice 5: any more discussion

[2:23:04] Voice 5: call the question all those in favor as well okay so that's uh unanimous okay back to the agenda

[2:23:20] Voice 6: what do we got draft 2023 governance committee meeting schedule lunch is there no lunch

[2:23:29] Voice 6: scheduled what did what was the time limit scheduled on this i certainly need a break but

[2:23:37] Voice 6: lori

[2:23:38] Voice 5: 20 minute break we

[2:23:42] Trustee Luckham: had two o'clock is the end of the meeting of

[2:23:45] Voice 5: lunch would be a good idea

[2:23:46] Voice 5: sorry say that again

[2:23:50] Voice 8: two o'clock is the scheduled end of the meeting uh oh good okay so that gives

[2:23:56] Voice 6: It's 20 after 12.

[2:23:58] Voice 6: So if we take a break for lunch.

[2:24:00] Voice 6: Sorry, Trustee Bernardo, your hand's up.

[2:24:03] Trustee Bernardo: I'm sorry.

[2:24:05] Trustee Bernardo: My mistake.

[2:24:06] Voice 6: So if we take a break for lunch now, how long?

[2:24:11] Voice 6: If we went until 1 o'clock, that would give us an hour?

[2:24:16] Trustee Bernardo: Works for me.

[2:24:17] Trustee Bernardo: Half

[2:24:17] Voice 6: an hour for lunch?

[2:24:19] Trustee Bernardo: Half an hour is fine.

[2:24:19] Voice 6: All right.

[2:24:20] Voice 6: Let's take a break.

[2:24:22] Voice 6: Thank you all.

[2:24:23] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[2:24:24] Voice 6: Muddling through.

[2:24:26] Voice 6: see you in half an hour i'm

[2:24:39] Voice 5: just gonna mute everybody and stop their cameras

[2:24:44] Voice 5: i'm gonna mute if you can mute and stop your camera thank you

[3:01:21] Voice 5: i have one o'clock shall we call the meeting back to order is everybody here yes all right

[3:01:33] Voice 5: so we left off with um 8.5 um draft meeting schedule discussion

[3:01:49] Voice 5: what about a hybrid of um it's

[3:02:00] Voice 6: presently scheduled for um we're anticipating once every two months

[3:02:05] Voice 6: for a year yes

[3:02:08] Voice 8: madam chair so your your duly allotted resources is one uh um is for a year

[3:02:16] Voice 8: um i know i'd say four to six um we have uh with the advent of the electronic meetings there have

[3:02:22] Voice 8: been um six meetings scheduled in the past but somewhere in that four to six range and now you

[3:02:27] Voice 8: have the contemplation of when do you want to or if and when do you want to look at a live meeting

[3:02:32] Voice 8: so we would publish your schedule on an annual basis so the public's aware of basically of what

[3:02:40] Voice 8: when your meetings are and the other consideration is how do they sync with trust council

[3:02:46] Voice 8: which I think is a point you may wish to discuss at least early on it may

[3:02:50] Voice 8: not be as necessary it would be for other committees but yeah so we can talk about a

[3:02:57] Voice 8: next date and then at that next date you can set your annual schedule because let's

[3:03:02] Voice 8: this is just your first meeting or you can try and tackle the whole thing right now

[3:03:07] Voice 6: um do we have

[3:03:10] Voice 6: let's just canvas the rest of the um the agenda do we have other business i don't think we have

[3:03:15] Voice 6: do we have new business we've tabled the work program pretty well in terms of coming up with

[3:03:23] Voice 6: working groups and there's the correspondence sorry trustee middleton yes

[3:03:30] Trustee Middleton: thank you chair

[3:03:30] Trustee Middleton: The only thing, and I would take your guidance on this, would be possible direction to staff for preparation of a revised policy, which would permit membership on the financial planning committee of one member of the governance committee.

[3:03:50] Trustee Middleton: I'm not sure we have agreement on that.

[3:03:52] Trustee Middleton: So I'd just take your direction and what you think is the best way to handle that.

[3:03:58] Voice 6: is that something that needs to be done uh with some priority i had

[3:04:02] Voice 6: in summarizing this morning i had put that into the parking lot um

[3:04:07] Trustee Middleton: i would just say only that i

[3:04:10] Trustee Middleton: basically it would need to be synchronized with trust council uh that the work done in advance

[3:04:16] Trustee Middleton: of council so that council could vote on it and so if if we don't catch the march uh window obviously

[3:04:23] Trustee Middleton: So we're then looking at June and maybe that's acceptable and I'm open.

[3:04:30] Voice 6: Trustee Peterson and Trustee Bernardo, you have commented that you were at the, are you on the Financial Planning Committee?

[3:04:39] Trustee Bernardo: I am now, yes, I'm on the Financial Planning Committee.

[3:04:42] Trustee Bernardo: In fact, I'm the chair of the Financial Planning Committee.

[3:04:45] Voice 6: All right. And can that overlap without it being a conflict?

[3:04:52] Trustee Bernardo: I don't understand the question.

[3:04:54] Voice 6: representing the governance committee and um any um questions and ideas and suggestions that we

[3:05:00] Voice 6: have can you bring those to the financial planning committee without it being a conflict

[3:05:06] Trustee Bernardo: um

[3:05:08] Trustee Bernardo: oh boy yeah technically who knows that's something you'd have to work through as a practical matter

[3:05:16] Trustee Bernardo: and frankly for the an appearances matter on the committee it's probably a bad idea for me to speak

[3:05:25] Trustee Bernardo: On behalf of the governance committee, that's my instinct, while also chairing the meetings.

[3:05:34] Voice 6: I

[3:05:34] Trustee Bernardo: would be comfortable enough reporting to the FPC if necessary, concerns, issues, input, that kind of thing.

[3:05:49] Trustee Bernardo: okay but i think where trustee middleton and others may be coming from is wanting proper

[3:05:56] Trustee Bernardo: representation in terms of a vote on the financial planning committee okay and that's an issue that

[3:06:04] Trustee Bernardo: i don't think can be resolved um in a i mean that that's an issue that requires some debate

[3:06:11] Trustee Bernardo: on the part of this committee to reach a conclusion that that's desirable and

[3:06:16] Trustee Bernardo: And the trustee mentioned that, you know, our window, just to clarify what Trustee Middleton was saying, he's right.

[3:06:26] Trustee Bernardo: The window to get the trust counsel to resolve that the governance committee should have representation on the financial planning committee, the same as other standing committees.

[3:06:40] Trustee Bernardo: He's right that that decision can either go to March or June, depending on timing.

[3:06:47] Trustee Bernardo: but that's predicated on committee deciding to want that if it doesn't want that then no actions

[3:06:57] Trustee Bernardo: required so it would seem that sometime before the march meeting the issue should be uh discussed

[3:07:06] Trustee Bernardo: and resolved upon by us here at the governance committee in the interim uh to the extent that

[3:07:12] Trustee Bernardo: any information from this committee needs you know communication or whatever uh i'm here but

[3:07:19] Trustee Bernardo: also other members of the financial planning committee are here so you know the financial

[3:07:24] Trustee Bernardo: planning committee doesn't have to operate in the dark in that respect so um yeah that's what i've

[3:07:30] Trustee Bernardo: got to say about that

[3:07:31] Trustee Stamford: trustee stanford yeah i was just going to say there are other members of the

[3:07:36] Trustee Stamford: financial committee here that may temporarily be willing to um move comments and report out to um

[3:07:46] Trustee Stamford: the financial planning committee

[3:07:50] Voice 5: trustee peterson uh

[3:07:54] Voice 14: yeah that's correct there's uh

[3:07:55] Voice 14: three of the members of this committee are on financial uh planning committee uh i think what

[3:08:02] Voice 14: What we want to contemplate as this committee, and I agree, we need to make the decision and preferably sooner than later, whether, in fact, we want a full voting member representing this committee on financial planning committee.

[3:08:20] Voice 14: That's an important discussion.

[3:08:21] Voice 14: I think we should certainly have.

[3:08:23] Voice 14: I just wanted to add a little bit of my perspective in terms of what the value of that is, which is that that representative to financial planning committee essentially is the champion for this committee's budgetary requests is the way I sort of see that position.

[3:08:47] Voice 14: um so that's i think what we need to contemplate when we're deciding whether or not we want to

[3:08:55] Voice 14: request for that type of position uh representation from this committee does

[3:09:04] Voice 6: it also require an

[3:09:05] Voice 6: amendment to um include the governance committee on um who gets to sit on the financial planning

[3:09:14] Voice 6: there

[3:09:14] Voice 14: there are policy things that need to be addressed which is why we need to decide first

[3:09:19] Voice 14: First, do we want that?

[3:09:20] Voice 14: And then if so, then we need to take action and give direction to staff is my understanding.

[3:09:25] Voice 6: Okay.

[3:09:27] Voice 6: All right.

[3:09:28] Voice 6: So we were about to get into schedule, and this financial planning committee might be the other business or new business, and we've got roughly an hour.

[3:09:43] Voice 6: So with the correspondence as well.

[3:09:48] Voice 6: so let's let's try and focus on the um the meeting schedule um and get that sorted out

[3:09:59] Voice 6: um trustee stamford um

[3:10:03] Trustee Stamford: i just uh i'd like to make people aware that thursdays generally don't work

[3:10:10] Trustee Stamford: for me at all i

[3:10:14] Voice 6: i have a question um to the cio what are the staff constraints in terms of uh if

[3:10:20] Voice 6: we want to have extra meetings more than the four or six a year well

[3:10:27] Voice 8: madam chair there's a couple

[3:10:29] Voice 8: the first point i'd like to make is in the proposed budget there is a request for

[3:10:33] Voice 8: additional administrative support the intention would be so as you look and vote um upcoming

[3:10:40] Voice 8: that would be to provide some capacity to the two new committees that are at the allen's trust one

[3:10:47] Voice 8: One is the Governance Committee, and the other one is the Accessibility Committee.

[3:10:51] Voice 8: Right now, we've just taken Lori from other tasks and realigned her, myself, and David Marler to this committee.

[3:10:57] Voice 8: So when you say is there, I think four to six is reasonable.

[3:11:02] Voice 8: Every time we go live, there's more work, and it depends how much.

[3:11:06] Voice 8: It's hard to tell from this committee how much staff reporting you're going to need.

[3:11:10] Voice 8: We've got a couple coming out of, say, this meeting.

[3:11:13] Voice 8: um when i look over the governance report itself uh likely there's several instances where you're

[3:11:19] Voice 8: going to need some some analysis associated with that so i think this will be a working committee

[3:11:23] Voice 8: for staff as well but we'll see how that plays out um so i think you know four perhaps uh perhaps six

[3:11:33] Voice 8: um is is what you would want to contemplate initially of course you're also talking about

[3:11:38] Voice 8: how you want your meeting structures to be and that might play into um whether you can get

[3:11:44] Voice 8: work done in small subgroups and then come back reasonably so that's the the reasonably the

[3:11:52] Voice 8: constraints that you've requested and

[3:11:55] Voice 6: how realistic is it to try to set up another meeting

[3:11:59] Voice 6: fairly soon if it's within a month in terms of all the other meetings that have been scheduled

[3:12:03] Voice 6: in staff time i've got um

[3:12:05] Voice 8: laurie and i sort of dug around a little bit we came up with february

[3:12:09] Voice 8: the 8th in the morning so that's a Wednesday at 10 30 and February 10th starting at nine o'clock

[3:12:21] Voice 8: as two opportunities in February for some meeting but that would be three weeks out from now for you

[3:12:28] Voice 8: to do the work that you were going to initially undertake so I don't know whether that's feasible

[3:12:34] Voice 8: or not maybe it is other than that I think you'd have to go after March

[3:12:38] Voice 6: there's something called a

[3:12:43] Voice 6: leadership academy that is scheduled out in richmond for eight nine and ten is it eight

[3:12:49] Voice 8: nine and ten and then

[3:12:52] Voice 6: nanaimo 15 16 17 right

[3:12:56] Voice 8: so we could always put together some dates and do a

[3:13:01] Voice 8: poll with you unless you don't land on something um right now

[3:13:07] Voice 6: is anybody here going to that

[3:13:10] Voice 6: leadership academy in Nanaimo 15 16 17 trustee Stanford okay it would

[3:13:24] Voice 6: have for me it would have

[3:13:25] Voice 6: to be before the 17th I've got a knee replacement surgery on the 17th I'm going to be on painkillers

[3:13:33] Voice 6: I'm not running meetings we've

[3:13:36] Voice 8: got the week of the 13th is pretty full we've got executive

[3:13:39] Voice 8: committee financial planning committee um how about laurie six of feb oh but mondays are good

[3:13:50] Voice 8: for you um chair getty am i right

[3:13:53] Voice 3: monday's

[3:13:54] Voice 8: bowen i thought you had bowen council meetings then

[3:13:56] Voice 8: uh yes but those are evening those are evening so laurie maybe you could come on screen are you

[3:14:03] Voice 8: what do you think of monday the 6th are you saying

[3:14:11] Trustee Patrick: monday the 6th of february

[3:14:12] Voice 8: yes um

[3:14:14] Trustee Patrick: that is the

[3:14:15] Trustee Patrick: The Climate Caucus Forum.

[3:14:21] Voice 8: So I think we're all now beginning to appreciate

[3:14:23] Voice 8: the challenge of leveraging the meetings.

[3:14:26] Voice 8: How about Tuesday the 7th?

[3:14:29] Voice 7: There's Galliano and Denman.

[3:14:31] Voice 7: Monday the 6th is Trust Programs Committee.

[3:14:33] Voice 7: That's why Wednesday the 8th and the 10th were chosen.

[3:14:36] Voice 7: I recognize LGLA in Richmond.

[3:14:45] Voice 5: Well, if I'm the only one going to the Leadership Academy,

[3:14:48] Voice 5: then I can budget, do this instead.

[3:14:56] Voice 8: So would the 10th be better?

[3:14:58] Voice 8: would you go for maybe the first couple days and do one or do the morning of the 10th or the other

[3:15:02] Voice 8: way around i

[3:15:03] Voice 6: have no idea okay stick

[3:15:05] Voice 6: someone half a dozen at the other well

[3:15:07] Voice 8: i think you could do

[3:15:08] Voice 8: both if you felt like it

[3:15:09] Voice 6: do

[3:15:15] Voice 5: both richmond and this one yeah

[3:15:17] Voice 8: i mean arguably this meeting will

[3:15:19] Voice 8: be a three or four hour meeting it's not we rarely have all day meetings um true uh but that's really

[3:15:25] Voice 8: for you to as a group to decide how how long do you want to meet when you meet um and we can

[3:15:32] Voice 8: offer suggestions but i think that's to you if

[3:15:36] Voice 6: we um scheduled it uh for eighth or tenth

[3:15:39] Voice 6: then that is uh what oh just a little over three weeks the 10th um so how is that with everybody's

[3:15:49] Voice 6: schedule trustee peterson yeah

[3:15:53] Voice 14: the eighth is not available for me the tenth is uh although i might

[3:16:00] Voice 14: be in transit for part of the meeting but that's not in possible but the tenth is definitely

[3:16:05] Voice 14: preferable others

[3:16:09] Voice 5: seventh afternoon of eighth ninth tenth all right let's try and set it up

[3:16:21] Voice 5: for the 10th can we get our homework done by then oh yes all

[3:16:28] Voice 6: right let's do the next one on

[3:16:30] Voice 6: the 10th and let's have a more fuller discussion um on the 10th in terms of um how we want to

[3:16:39] Voice 6: slide these in that i think that preliminary discussion on the governance committee and

[3:16:44] Voice 6: possibly working groups will give us a better idea trustee peterson yeah

[3:16:51] Voice 14: i think chair i was

[3:16:52] Voice 14: looking at my schedule and contemplating the possibility of an in-person meeting and hopefully

[3:16:59] Voice 14: not too late in the year. So I was just going to ask if staff could investigate one of the Fridays

[3:17:08] Voice 14: in May, the 12th, 19th, or 26th as possible days for an in-person session. Just identifying those

[3:17:17] Voice 14: Those are like the soonest, most open in-person opportunities

[3:17:22] Voice 5: I see on my schedule.

[3:17:31] Voice 5: Yes.

[3:17:33] Voice 5: I've been sitting

[3:17:37] Voice 6: as a judge.

[3:17:37] Voice 6: I sit in the chair.

[3:17:38] Voice 6: So now I'm in a chair and I get into this courtroom mode and everybody's the witness that's a constable.

[3:17:43] Voice 6: So I'm sorry.

[3:17:44] Trustee Bernardo: I'll

[3:17:44] Voice 6: get over it.

[3:17:45] Trustee Bernardo: It's a little troubling to realize I'm sitting as the constable.

[3:17:53] Trustee Bernardo: Don't I even get the Mr. Prosecutor?

[3:17:55] Trustee Bernardo: No, sorry.

[3:17:58] Voice 6: It's my mind.

[3:18:03] Trustee Bernardo: Some sort

[3:18:04] Trustee Bernardo: of Pavlovian thing.

[3:18:05] Trustee Bernardo: About the live meeting business, that's something we've talked about as a contingency, but shouldn't we reserve judgment, so to speak, as to when we actually need it until after we've done some work?

[3:18:24] Trustee Bernardo: and we identify that we need an occasion,

[3:18:30] Trustee Bernardo: that we've got issues that require us to get together

[3:18:34] Trustee Bernardo: to talk about it.

[3:18:36] Trustee Bernardo: I'm not sure, May might be early for that.

[3:18:39] Trustee Bernardo: And I guess I'd prefer to wait scheduling a live meeting

[3:18:43] Trustee Bernardo: until we actually recognize there's a real need for it.

[3:18:45] Trustee Bernardo: And we're not quite there yet.

[3:18:47] Trustee Bernardo: We might be, but we're not quite.

[3:18:49] Trustee Bernardo: And related to that,

[3:18:52] Trustee Bernardo: given that we're trying to develop

[3:18:53] Trustee Bernardo: up a somewhat different approach just to be clear uh i think it'd be helpful if we um were clear

[3:19:02] Trustee Bernardo: amongst ourselves today about what the agenda should be for this next meeting that's coming

[3:19:07] Trustee Bernardo: up in three weeks obviously we've talked about how everybody needs to read that governance review

[3:19:12] Trustee Bernardo: report and prepare themselves for a big discussion about it and send materials ahead of time if they

[3:19:19] Trustee Bernardo: they can uh it sounds like there's probably we probably want to have a discussion at that meeting

[3:19:26] Trustee Bernardo: about meeting groups but it i think it's preferable if we're going to treat this as like

[3:19:33] Trustee Bernardo: a working meeting that we the usual bump that's in some of these things we just forego that for

[3:19:39] Trustee Bernardo: this meeting and the agenda is just going to be limited to discussing that type of business

[3:19:43] Trustee Bernardo: you know and uh but i don't know how people feel about that but that way i mean that itself will

[3:19:50] Trustee Bernardo: reduce some of the formality and focus this on just getting some work done at that particular

[3:19:54] Trustee Bernardo: meeting and um uh i throw that suggestion out for people to consider

[3:19:59] Voice 5: trustee harris i wanted to add

[3:20:05] Voice 5: about the in

[3:20:06] Voice 15: -person meetings and i was hoping to go with your suggestion chair as to um asking

[3:20:14] Voice 15: staff if there was would be opportunities at trust council meetings for us to um get together

[3:20:22] Voice 15: other as opposed to scheduling a in-person meeting out of that and

[3:20:31] Voice 6: along with that um how

[3:20:32] Voice 6: much lead time does staff need in terms of setting up a in-person so that if we penciled it in for

[3:20:40] Voice 6: may um or tried to squeeze it into a trust council meeting yes

[3:20:47] Voice 8: madam chair a couple things the

[3:20:49] Voice 8: squeezing it into a trust council meeting is a well-worn option over the last 25 30 years at the

[3:20:55] Voice 8: trust it hasn't happened while i've been employed here i've understood it was disastrous um but i

[3:21:03] Voice 8: can't say for sure um because then one committee does it then the next committee does it and then

[3:21:08] Voice 8: we've got three committees meeting all around the three meetings uh three days of meetings

[3:21:13] Voice 8: at trust council proper and that long-form discussion doesn't happen in any of them but

[3:21:19] Voice 8: if there's more analysis around there that's requested that's fine it is not just a

[3:21:24] Voice 8: unless you went in the evening somewhere we'd have to organize that meeting so i don't think

[3:21:29] Voice 8: it's an it could be there but it's not an easy off-ramp um what we could do if you want for

[3:21:36] Voice 8: your next meeting is run up a few dates as options for the year and circle those and i could provide

[3:21:45] Voice 8: you some insight on whether it needs three weeks or or what it would need to to arrange a live

[3:21:50] Voice 8: meeting at any given time

[3:21:53] Voice 8: so we could just do a brief report with some date options like we would

[3:21:56] Voice 8: for any other committee is

[3:21:58] Voice 5: that agreeable also

[3:22:02] Voice 15: i'm sorry i was hoping to add that at the trust

[3:22:05] Voice 15: council meetings may be something that just an idea that may work is that we have a rather than

[3:22:14] Voice 15: one longer meeting we may be able to fit it into a couple shorter meetings in the evenings of trust

[3:22:21] Voice 15: council um for

[3:22:24] Voice 5: you know time issues trustee peterson yeah thank

[3:22:33] Voice 14: you chair um i understand the

[3:22:35] Voice 14: desire and the efficiency that might be sort of perceived at sandwiching a live a meeting in with

[3:22:43] Voice 14: trust council um my experience is that that's probably not going to be terribly functional

[3:22:51] Voice 14: If we want to do our best work, as you all are probably aware by now, Trust Council agendas tend to be rather full.

[3:23:00] Voice 14: There's lots for us to be putting our mind to at that point.

[3:23:03] Voice 14: I think I would have some difficulty sort of shifting gears and adding hours to what are already sometimes fairly long meetings.

[3:23:16] Voice 14: I'd also point out for myself personally of course there's usually an executive meeting in person on the first day of Trust Council before Trust Council starts so that that's kind of blocks that out for me, but I, I get the idea of the efficiency but I don't think that we're actually going to get the functionality that I prefer that we had.

[3:23:40] Trustee Stamford: Trustee Sandberg.

[3:23:43] Trustee Stamford: yes just concurring with trustee peterson that it really is difficult to add more onto our

[3:23:51] Trustee Stamford: meetings at trust council there is not just the time it's what you're doing during that time and

[3:23:59] Trustee Stamford: you do need a break and also one of the reasons we get together is to be able to talk to each other

[3:24:04] Trustee Stamford: in a more informal way which has a certain value to it and i would hate to lose that opportunity

[3:24:08] Voice 5: all right

[3:24:13] Voice 6: maybe we can just schedule a you know a lunch or a supper or something for just a social

[3:24:18] Voice 6: um without a an agenda um all right so then what we're left with then is staff coming

[3:24:29] Voice 6: back to us with some sort of a rough outline of possible dates that we can consider for meetings

[3:24:36] Voice 6: meetings. Right. Okay. Thank you. So we're

[3:24:44] Voice 7: sorry, Lori.

[3:24:46] Voice 7: Chair Giddey, can I just get a motion for that meeting on Friday, February 10, to be

[3:24:51] Voice 7: held electronically? I've crafted one if we could just officiate that in minutes.

[3:24:56] Voice 5: Okay. Is that up? It is.

[3:25:02] Voice 5: There it is. All right. Everybody. I'll move that

[3:25:09] Voice 5: if we can get a seconder.

[3:25:10] Voice 5: I second. Trustee Harris your name you're sorry who's that myself

[3:25:19] Voice 15: I'm second the okay good thank

[3:25:21] Voice 6: you um any discussion all

[3:25:25] Voice 5: those in favor we're doing really well with unanimous good thank you

[3:25:35] Voice 5: thanks Laurie. I was hoping to um mention more about the

[3:25:43] Voice 15: trust council dates and correct me if

[3:25:48] Voice 15: I'm wrong but are the afternoons of the last day of trust council not open for committee meetings

[3:25:56] Voice 15: is that something that's it's already an ongoing thing it's

[3:26:03] Voice 6: possible but my experience is that

[3:26:05] Voice 6: people would like to get home and sometimes they can't make the connections sorry ex officio

[3:26:12] Trustee Luckham: what you said exactly what I was going to do is that um indeed the mornings of the first day

[3:26:20] Trustee Luckham: and the afternoons of the last day are in consideration of trustees need to get home

[3:26:27] Trustee Luckham: and travel and in some cases that's three hours of travel and so yeah well

[3:26:34] Voice 15: it's going to be a lot

[3:26:36] Voice 15: more travel for an in-person meeting than to you know if we were to schedule it on the last day

[3:26:41] Voice 15: for instance it'd be more time taken out of somebody's life um as you know you get my drift

[3:26:49] Voice 15: for

[3:26:50] Voice 6: me it's for me it's not um the amount of time it's not getting home

[3:26:56] Voice 6: so if i if i'm not out of i mean nanaimo is better but if i'm not out of victoria by

[3:27:01] Voice 6: you know sometime two-ish then i'm not home well

[3:27:08] Voice 15: is it not an option

[3:27:09] Voice 5: we spend another night

[3:27:10] Voice 5: no that's a bigger expense these are just just thinking out loud here yeah so

[3:27:21] Voice 6: let's canvas the

[3:27:21] Voice 6: dates um and um we can keep in mind the um trust council dates and have a bigger discussion at the

[3:27:29] Voice 6: the next meeting which is now piling up i've got four things on the agenda for the next meeting

[3:27:40] Voice 6: so

[3:27:41] Voice 5: um do we have other business i think you have a receipt

[3:27:52] Voice 8: of correspondence thank you all right

[3:27:54] Voice 6: so no new business either so we're into number 11 correspondence so it's um the letter from trustee

[3:28:01] Voice 6: bushelkin dated september 26 22 record

[3:28:09] Voice 5: um

[3:28:13] Voice 6: do we need a discussion on this or it's just um

[3:28:19] Voice 6: commentate comments on

[3:28:20] Voice 5: um whatever happened at that meeting i think we're following those

[3:28:28] Voice 6: suggestions any further discussion that we need on this trustee

[3:28:35] Voice 5: stamford i

[3:28:38] Trustee Stamford: think the intent was

[3:28:40] Trustee Stamford: to receive for information okay follow-up on advice in general not necessarily unless there's

[3:28:45] Trustee Stamford: a discussion required all right

[3:28:47] Trustee Stamford: trustee middleton

[3:28:48] Voice 5: thank

[3:28:52] Trustee Middleton: you yeah i would just comment um that i

[3:28:55] Trustee Middleton: think we are addressing the the issue of uh i think it's a symptom of the roberts rules uh

[3:29:01] Trustee Middleton: constraint that the writer refers to but i would like to take the time to say that if i was overly

[3:29:07] Trustee Middleton: overly rough and tumble with uh our chair but i do apologize for that um because you know i hold

[3:29:15] Trustee Middleton: him in the highest regard and sometimes if i use harsh words it's not intentional so thank you

[3:29:23] Trustee Middleton: thank

[3:29:25] Trustee Luckham: you it's always good to remember to be kind trustee bernardo um

[3:29:31] Trustee Bernardo: yeah i i don't want to

[3:29:33] Trustee Bernardo: to spend a huge amount of time talking about it but um i'm a bit of a loss in the sense that

[3:29:40] Trustee Bernardo: the context of it isn't exactly clear to me and although i don't think we need to necessarily

[3:29:46] Trustee Bernardo: debate correspondence i and i'm not sure if this is feasible but i guess i'd like to have just

[3:29:53] Trustee Bernardo: a couple of minutes of background on what the heck this is actually all about it appears to be

[3:30:02] Trustee Bernardo: an observation about conduct in the past and you know i take trustee middleton's comment about

[3:30:11] Trustee Bernardo: you know not wanting to you know that he's coming from a you know a positive place and i respect

[3:30:17] Trustee Bernardo: that but what's the context for this i mean is it possible to have that explained is

[3:30:23] Voice 6: it well it

[3:30:24] Voice 6: would it be helpful um is more the question so if that's a circumstance that whatever's going on

[3:30:30] Voice 6: then i don't know um who this the writer is um and i don't know the context that the whole issue

[3:30:37] Voice 6: in terms of of you know recognizing speakers and favoritism and all the rest of it if it if you need

[3:30:43] Voice 6: reassuring i don't have any favorites um i'm not that big on i don't understand robert's rules all

[3:30:49] Voice 6: that well i'm getting used to it but um generally i work i've done a lot of mediation so i work on

[3:30:55] Voice 6: sort of a physics principle if there's a lot of energy i i try to get more light instead of more

[3:31:00] Voice 6: heat but um um you know i think that it's i think that's possibly water under the bridge and it's

[3:31:11] Voice 6: good advice in terms of paying attention to the rules and why they're there in terms of decorum

[3:31:15] Voice 6: but um i think we're going to muddle through ourselves and if we come up with a situation

[3:31:20] Voice 6: we're going to figure out how to deal with it best with us as a group is that okay trustee bernardo

[3:31:30] Trustee Bernardo: well i'm really still in the dark about what was going on but i i take your point that uh you know

[3:31:34] Trustee Bernardo: we could just muddle on and uh i i think your initial observation which is okay you know the

[3:31:41] Trustee Bernardo: newcomers may be in the dark about it but uh we're in your hands in the hands of others to decide

[3:31:48] Trustee Bernardo: whether or not it's actually helpful to further explore this so i take that point that's fair

[3:31:52] Trustee Bernardo: enough so uh we're in your hands i

[3:31:55] Voice 6: got a couple of hands up let's hear trustee peterson um yeah

[3:32:01] Voice 14: i i i mean there are some suggestions in this in this letter that we might want to take note of

[3:32:07] Voice 14: that's fine i think in terms of context of my suggestion for trustee bernardo is that there is a

[3:32:13] Voice 14: a recording of that meeting available uh

[3:32:16] Voice 3: uh

[3:32:18] Voice 14: uh whether or not you want to subject yourself to

[3:32:23] Voice 14: that but i think if if you want the context that's probably the the most clear and uh exact way to

[3:32:30] Voice 14: get it because the rest is is going to be uh the recollections of anyone who might have been there

[3:32:35] Voice 14: that wants to go into that

[3:32:36] Voice 12: and i do feel like i i'm

[3:32:38] Voice 14: sorry i brought it

[3:32:39] Voice 12: up i'm rapidly losing

[3:32:41] Voice 12: losing interest in the context so I'm backing away from my original comment no

[3:32:46] Trustee Middleton: if if I chair

[3:32:49] Trustee Middleton: I'll just say

[3:32:50] Trustee Middleton: it's much less exciting um than it sounds from the letter writer it basically had the

[3:32:56] Trustee Middleton: 22nd version is there was a presentation in camera that was very basic it wasn't controversial at all

[3:33:02] Trustee Middleton: from our CEO about a list of things that would be helpful to support a certain objective uh we came

[3:33:09] Trustee Middleton: out of camera and i made a motion saying well let's get on advocating for this excellent list

[3:33:14] Trustee Middleton: of 10 items um and because we were at the interface of an in-camera to a business session

[3:33:20] Trustee Middleton: the director of legislative services said well you can't really reference in camera by then making a

[3:33:26] Trustee Middleton: motion and i was perhaps slightly grumpy because my power had been off all day and i thought it

[3:33:31] Trustee Middleton: was such a you know a trivial matter to to i may uh i i indeed use the word obstructionist in

[3:33:38] Trustee Middleton: reference to our excellent chair and um when he had ingraciously allowed the motion to proceed

[3:33:44] Trustee Middleton: in which it did and so that's that's the gist of the matter there um i wish there was more uh

[3:33:53] Trustee Middleton: controversy to you know but no i don't i don't really i'm i'm being cheeky there no that that

[3:34:00] Trustee Middleton: was the essence of it and obviously it caused a bit of offense to some members and you know

[3:34:06] Trustee Middleton: had i known that i certainly would have apologized at the time and i'm happy to have done so to our

[3:34:11] Trustee Middleton: our chair now because i i don't think i thought at the time he's obstructionist but generally

[3:34:17] Trustee Middleton: he has shown himself to be very amenable and uh forthright in terms of allowing us to carry on

[3:34:23] Trustee Middleton: our business so thank you all

[3:34:26] Voice 6: right next item the um letter from then

[3:34:33] Voice 5: minister um cullen

[3:34:35] Voice 5: what do you want to do with this trustee peterson uh

[3:34:47] Voice 14: this appears to me i take this letter as uh

[3:34:50] Voice 14: you know minister would love to hear back when we've done some work uh i don't think we're there

[3:34:59] Voice 14: uh other than the formation of this committee that's about the amount the extent of work that's

[3:35:04] Voice 14: been done so i think that this is maybe just a reminder that down the road when we have got some

[3:35:10] Voice 14: work done we might consider doing some reporting out to them to the minister

[3:35:16] Voice 6: thank you staff has there been contact with the new minister or the deputy yes

[3:35:23] Voice 8: madam chair and

[3:35:23] Voice 8: i expect uh chair luck would be able to brief you i was in attendance in a meeting with uh

[3:35:28] Voice 8: new minister kang um she was very gracious in her speaking but uh i'd refer you to chair luckham who

[3:35:34] Voice 8: um was co-chairing the meeting basically with the minister and that occurred maybe some three weeks

[3:35:41] Voice 8: ago or something and

[3:35:43] Voice 6: i assume that they are aware that we have this new committee and

[3:35:48] Voice 6: we can tell them that we've sorted out a chair and a vice indeed

[3:35:53] Voice 8: i think that would be part of

[3:35:55] Voice 8: what um the minister would be the start of what the minister would be looking at as you make um

[3:36:02] Voice 8: requests of the province did

[3:36:06] Trustee Luckham: you wish to hear more i think the cao has summarized it quite well

[3:36:10] Trustee Luckham: Is there anything more you want to add?

[3:36:14] Trustee Luckham: Only that it was really a meeting greet and an opportunity, any opportunity to meet with the minister is an opportunity to raise the important issues and thoughts of council.

[3:36:23] Trustee Luckham: And certainly I did that with my executive members.

[3:36:28] Trustee Luckham: And it was actually a special moment because we were invited to that meeting at the request of the previous minister.

[3:36:38] Trustee Luckham: and the new minister is within days of being in her office uh wanted to have the opportunity to

[3:36:44] Trustee Luckham: meet with the islands trust as a special agency and so that was good and certainly what we're

[3:36:49] Trustee Luckham: working towards is having a more uh frequent and more uh rapport between the minister and

[3:36:56] Trustee Luckham: the islands trust and so that's certainly been established and um uh with 169 local governments

[3:37:02] Trustee Luckham: that minister is incredibly busy at this time trustee bernardo

[3:37:08] Trustee Bernardo: yeah um i'm not sure there's

[3:37:11] Trustee Bernardo: a terrific amount for us to do with this this letter but i think it's um i think it's important

[3:37:18] Trustee Bernardo: that we uh digest it and uh reach a consensus as to what its meaning actually is and you know

[3:37:29] Trustee Bernardo: what type of guidance, if any, we should take from it.

[3:37:35] Trustee Bernardo: It's very brief.

[3:37:36] Trustee Bernardo: It's very polite.

[3:37:40] Trustee Bernardo: Every time I've had a look at it,

[3:37:42] Trustee Bernardo: I can't get past the little phrase in the middle paragraph

[3:37:46] Trustee Bernardo: where it talks about,

[3:37:47] Trustee Bernardo: I encourage you to look at these opportunities,

[3:37:49] Trustee Bernardo: which is to say, you know,

[3:37:52] Trustee Bernardo: you translate the politics out of that.

[3:37:55] Trustee Bernardo: It's basically, how about you guys go and get coherent

[3:38:01] Trustee Bernardo: about what your problems are and what you think they are before you come to the ministry and ask

[3:38:07] Trustee Bernardo: for relief uh that uh and that's just my interpretation i could be wrong about that but

[3:38:15] Trustee Bernardo: um and i don't think we should necessarily spend a tremendous amount of time on this but i don't

[3:38:21] Trustee Bernardo: think we should read this as encouragement that we should uh you know rush over to the minister

[3:38:28] Trustee Bernardo: and seek relief for various issues until we have a really clear idea ourselves um so like going to

[3:38:35] Trustee Bernardo: that end and throwing our hands up and saying we can't figure it out isn't going to cut it i don't

[3:38:39] Trustee Bernardo: think and that's just my reading of it but i do think you get a communication from the minister

[3:38:47] Trustee Bernardo: on the very work that this committee is going to do it is incumbent incumbent on us not to spend a

[3:38:54] Trustee Bernardo: tremendous amount of time on it but to to to decode it so that we are all operating from the

[3:38:59] Trustee Bernardo: same understanding of what the significance of the thing is right

[3:39:03] Voice 6: trustee peterson uh just a

[3:39:07] Voice 14: context uh for anyone that uh doesn't remember but there was a uh a resolution out of the

[3:39:15] Voice 14: previous trust council i think it may have been in the june of 2022 if my memory serves

[3:39:22] Voice 14: that specifically asked it for the minister

[3:39:25] Voice 14: to initiate a review of the governance

[3:39:28] Voice 14: of the Islands Trust.

[3:39:30] Voice 14: And so in that context,

[3:39:33] Voice 14: I read this letter as essentially directing us

[3:39:39] Voice 14: to do some work before we come back

[3:39:42] Voice 14: with any further requests from the minister

[3:39:47] Voice 14: to work on our governance.

[3:39:49] Voice 14: That's my sense.

[3:39:52] Voice 6: yeah so i think um ex-officio luck of you were next yeah

[3:39:58] Trustee Luckham: i don't want to belabor this anymore

[3:40:00] Trustee Luckham: um but i'll just say that uh uh trustee bernardo your interpretation is uh is reasonably accurate

[3:40:07] Trustee Luckham: i would say and that throughout history with various ministers um we have a ministry staff

[3:40:14] Trustee Luckham: we are given a lot of latitude um for an agency of the province different from other local

[3:40:20] Trustee Luckham: local governments and provided the opportunity to do our own level of interpretation and report

[3:40:27] Trustee Luckham: back to them. And if we go too far astray, you can be sure that we will be advised of that. And

[3:40:32] Trustee Luckham: indeed, there has been some advice from the ministry in the past when they thought we needed

[3:40:38] Trustee Luckham: a bit of a nudge. And so, indeed, I think we need to get on with our work. And when we have

[3:40:43] Trustee Luckham: something important to report to the minister, they would be definitely happy to receive that.

[3:40:49] Trustee Luckham: And certainly from my perspective, I want to seek opportunities to report to the minister about all of the activities of the Islands Trust throughout the term, as I have always done in the last number of terms.

[3:41:05] Trustee Luckham: So your interpretation isn't far off from the

[3:41:11] Voice 5: mark. Thank you.

[3:41:12] Voice 5: Trustee Middleton?

[3:41:16] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair. That matches my interpretation as well.

[3:41:22] Trustee Middleton: Well, I think the request for review was resent or placed before this council to show that there was a continuity between the two councils.

[3:41:33] Trustee Middleton: But I don't think in terms of the request, but I don't think it changes the nature of the response.

[3:41:38] Trustee Middleton: And indeed, that is that we actually have quite a bit of latitude to address a lot of the issues that we ourselves have raised and that the governance report raised.

[3:41:50] Trustee Middleton: In fact, the governance report, Sylvain Dubois, who is the senior legal counsel, his belief, now this maybe is a contestable belief, but his belief is that the Interpretation Act of British Columbia, when twinned with the Islands Trust Act, actually was designed and allows us a great deal of latitude in use of powers which we've not actually currently touched.

[3:42:13] Trustee Middleton: touched and so does have the belief they do have the belief that we're we're able to go quite a

[3:42:18] Trustee Middleton: ways before we push up against the boundaries and so to the point I think of uh of uh of chair

[3:42:25] Trustee Middleton: locum the uh where ex-officio like I'm sorry um communication to the minister about what our

[3:42:31] Trustee Middleton: progress is it's probably a good idea um it's I don't see how it how it would hurt because I do

[3:42:35] Trustee Middleton: think there will be progress to um report and then should it come a time where we do hit a wall where

[3:42:42] Trustee Middleton: we require provincial intervention in terms of legislative change or what have you um there'll

[3:42:48] Trustee Middleton: be a track record of us informing uh the the minister of what we've been doing and how we've

[3:42:53] Trustee Middleton: been uh you know exercising our authority so uh that might be where other long-winded lay of saying

[3:43:01] Trustee Middleton: please reply to the minister saying we've now constituted the governance committee for this term

[3:43:06] Trustee Middleton: and here's the chair and the vice chair and we will keep you apprised of progress

[3:43:09] Trustee Middleton: thank you trustee

[3:43:13] Voice 5: patrick i

[3:43:15] Trustee Patrick: i would recommend that all of us read the request for decision

[3:43:20] Trustee Patrick: that was actually accompanied the the letter that went out in june because there were a number of

[3:43:27] Trustee Patrick: issues that are likely beyond the scope of this group and or or it may be but you know so i would

[3:43:34] Trustee Patrick: really encourage that uh you read the rfd and we could either send that out again so everybody

[3:43:39] Trustee Patrick: could see it to get the full context because they are it did take it did acknowledge fully that the

[3:43:46] Trustee Patrick: governance review had occurred and that that work was ongoing and was a commitment of the island's

[3:43:54] Trustee Patrick: trust this was beyond that so please read that all

[3:44:00] Voice 6: right and is there has anyone spelled out

[3:44:04] Voice 6: what the powers that we're not yet using might be trustee middleton uh

[3:44:10] Trustee Middleton: this is where it i think

[3:44:12] Trustee Middleton: there's contention because i think one of the criticisms of the governance report is the uh

[3:44:18] Trustee Middleton: the legal advisor would came to an opinion the opinion is at odds with the current understanding

[3:44:24] Trustee Middleton: but a lot of the detail there is is uh is uh maybe not in place to convince people and so i think

[3:44:30] Trustee Middleton: that's some of the work we're going to need to do and maybe we're going to need to that's probably

[3:44:39] Trustee Middleton: So

[3:44:40] Voice 6: that will probably come up as part of the discussion when we get into some depth on the governance report.

[3:44:48] Voice 6: Okay, so that's the end of correspondence. Any other discussion on that?

[3:44:56] Voice 6: So the next on the agenda is the work program, the next meeting, closed meetings.

[3:45:02] Voice 6: Yes, sorry

[3:45:04] Voice 7: there's one more piece of correspondence that was

[3:45:07] Voice 6: a part of

[3:45:07] Voice 7: the addendum it's from M gang and if I may with a bit of context, the writer had emailed a revision letter of this to all committee members but this is the original which was forwarded from

[3:45:21] Voice 7: trust council and

[3:45:24] Voice 5: it's december meeting all right what do you want to do with this does this fit in

[3:45:57] Voice 5: with um any

[3:45:59] Voice 6: of the other items that we're going to be talking about um sticking

[3:46:08] Voice 5: to them i think

[3:46:09] Voice 5: it's relevant to our work program all

[3:46:12] Voice 6: right and we're going to sort that out at the next meeting

[3:46:15] Voice 6: when we're talking about working groups and yeah all

[3:46:18] Voice 6: right so can we have this added to the agenda

[3:46:21] Voice 6: for the next meeting we'll just forward it and we'll look at it in more detail in that context

[3:46:26] Voice 6: is

[3:46:32] Voice 5: that agreeable to everybody uh agreeable to me okay

[3:46:37] Voice 6: all right so next on the agenda is work

[3:46:40] Voice 6: program and it's i i think that we put that over for the next one we're going to talk about working

[3:46:45] Voice 6: groups and figure out how we're going to prioritize things and what we're going to work on

[3:46:50] Voice 6: is that fair enough yes so

[3:46:53] Voice 6: the next meeting then is by zoom february the 10th at nine

[3:47:00] Voice 6: is there anything for a closed meeting what is rise and report

[3:47:10] Voice 8: madam chair rise and report is when you come out of a closed session and you have something that

[3:47:14] Voice 8: you wish to take out of closed session and bring into the public um so that they're made aware of

[3:47:19] Voice 8: something

[3:47:19] Voice 6: okay so we can we haven't had a closed meeting so we can skip then to adjournment

[3:47:26] Trustee Bernardo: are we to take it that closed meetings there's a requirement that people are supposed to lie down

[3:47:30] Trustee Bernardo: at the closed meeting and then they rise don't

[3:47:35] Voice 6: don't go there it's much too comfortable

[3:47:41] Voice 6: trustee peterson uh

[3:47:43] Voice 14: yeah just because i i was madly opening my calendar to try and get do we

[3:47:47] Voice 14: just say 10 is would you say 10 o'clock for that start time is that what we said nine o'clock sir

[3:47:52] Voice 14: nine nine o'clock okay thank you i just want to make sure i get the right number in my calendar

[3:47:58] Voice 14: the earth all right thanks very much

[3:48:00] Voice 6: 9 a.m on the 10th the 10 did come in there but it was the date

[3:48:06] Voice 6: trustee harris i

[3:48:08] Voice 15: don't want to drag things on here am i missing something that i were we not

[3:48:12] Voice 15: going to talk about um somebody from the um the gc sitting on the fpc as a voting member or did

[3:48:21] Voice 15: that something we said we were going to do and we didn't do just just in case i missed that sorry

[3:48:27] Voice 15: no

[3:48:28] Voice 6: i think you might be right um and that was something that um trustee peterson you said

[3:48:37] Voice 6: i think it was you said be better earlier than later um what do we want to do with that we've

[3:48:45] Voice 6: got 15 minutes scheduled for the the meeting which might be enough time what is trustee middleton

[3:48:56] Trustee Middleton: not notwithstanding uh uh trustee bernardo's point about discussion i think we're probably

[3:49:01] Trustee Middleton: within reach it's our the decision is within the root uh reach of our grasp but this meeting i

[3:49:08] Trustee Middleton: should say in that um we um yeah i i i'll just be blunt i think it's appropriate that this committee

[3:49:15] Trustee Middleton: have a representative a voting representative appointed by the chair not necessarily the chair

[3:49:21] Trustee Middleton: um as with all the rules that apply to all the other committees on the financial planning

[3:49:26] Trustee Middleton: committee that's clearly a decision for this committee to take and so i won't you know make

[3:49:31] Trustee Middleton: motion or anything to that effect of respecting the idea we we might want to discuss that but i

[3:49:35] Trustee Middleton: think i would suggest it's not a controversial um

[3:49:40] Voice 5: action thank you um ex-officio yeah

[3:49:48] Trustee Luckham: i didn't put

[3:49:50] Trustee Luckham: my hand up earlier because i don't want to be talking too much but um uh trustee bernardo or

[3:49:55] Trustee Luckham: tim peterson and laura patrick might confirm i think fpc asked staff to provide some policy

[3:50:02] Trustee Luckham: policy amendments or review in order to determine, you know, the legitimacy of taking the action

[3:50:10] Trustee Luckham: contemplated here. And so presumably that work is coming and advice will come to FPC

[3:50:17] Trustee Luckham: and or to council and or to this committee to provide that direction or confirmation of that

[3:50:25] Trustee Luckham: necessity that might be expressed by the governance committee. And somebody can maybe

[3:50:32] Trustee Luckham: to confirm that that was what actually happened trustee bernardo

[3:50:36] Trustee Bernardo: actually i can i can confirm the

[3:50:39] Trustee Bernardo: opposite i think my recollection uh from yesterday from the meeting was um you know we had a back and

[3:50:46] Trustee Bernardo: forth and i i reached the conclusion as chair of the meeting that um the best information we had

[3:50:52] Trustee Bernardo: available to us was that um uh you know we didn't need an opinion from staff or anybody else i mean

[3:51:01] Trustee Bernardo: it's it's there's some ambiguity about um trust council's intention but the most recent utterance

[3:51:07] Trustee Bernardo: from the trust council was fairly explicit and excluded um the governance committee from the fpc

[3:51:15] Trustee Bernardo: and uh we carried on on the assumption that that was the case and frankly just left it in the air

[3:51:23] Trustee Bernardo: as to what's going to happen next because it's really not up to the staff to come up with a

[3:51:27] Trustee Bernardo: position paper and the advisability about whether the general or governance committee has

[3:51:34] Trustee Bernardo: representation on on the fpc or not that's really a decision ultimately for trust council but you

[3:51:41] Trustee Bernardo: know you have to wheel it back before it goes to the trust council you know it's like where we

[3:51:46] Trustee Bernardo: started on this question is like this committee has to decide whether or not um it thinks it

[3:51:52] Trustee Bernardo: It should be, have representation on the FPC.

[3:51:55] Trustee Bernardo: And I guess in terms of just purely an analytical approach to it, it's, there's really only

[3:52:03] Trustee Bernardo: one question, which is you'll, this is a new standing committee.

[3:52:08] Trustee Bernardo: All the other standing committees have been, are participants in the FPC, not necessarily,

[3:52:15] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think to be advocates or not exclusively to be advocates for their, for their shot

[3:52:21] Trustee Bernardo: at the trough to get the money but also because you you want the chairs of those committees or

[3:52:26] Trustee Bernardo: the represent from those committees to come to the fpc with the benefit of their expertise the

[3:52:34] Trustee Bernardo: things that they've learned their understanding of what's happening at their end which will inform

[3:52:39] Trustee Bernardo: the strategic side of what's happening in the financial planning side so the one question is

[3:52:45] Trustee Bernardo: is on what, is there a principled basis

[3:52:48] Trustee Bernardo: for excluding the governance committee

[3:52:52] Trustee Bernardo: from financial planning?

[3:52:56] Voice 5: Or

[3:52:56] Trustee Bernardo: is it the other way around,

[3:52:59] Trustee Bernardo: which is governance committee in the nature of its work

[3:53:03] Trustee Bernardo: ought to have a voice and not because it's particularly got,

[3:53:07] Trustee Bernardo: you know, it's got its dollar signs in its eyes

[3:53:11] Trustee Bernardo: for funding for projects it has in mind,

[3:53:12] Trustee Bernardo: but because in this forum we develop,

[3:53:16] Trustee Bernardo: or we hope to develop larger systemic perspective on things that also feeds into the strategic

[3:53:23] Trustee Bernardo: planning that should go into the FPC and all that stuff. So, I mean, those are the two sides of the

[3:53:28] Trustee Bernardo: question, which is, you know, one, we don't really have to advocate for money. I mean,

[3:53:35] Trustee Bernardo: that's really not what we're about. We're not programmatic in that way. On the other hand,

[3:53:40] Trustee Bernardo: we do have insights that might be useful for the FPC. So, you know, those are the two sides of

[3:53:46] Trustee Bernardo: that and what and i don't know the answer to this like is there a principal basis for excluding

[3:53:53] Trustee Bernardo: the governance committee i don't know the answer to that question but at first blush i can't see it

[3:53:58] Trustee Bernardo: but you know as they say i'm a newcomer so what do i know so uh i hope that framing is helpful thank

[3:54:05] Trustee Bernardo: you

[3:54:05] Voice 5: trustee peterson um

[3:54:09] Voice 14: yeah thank you chair i uh in the interest of uh maybe uh trying to move us

[3:54:14] Voice 14: along here today i wonder if we just uh could get a just a quick straw poll do is the do the

[3:54:23] Voice 14: majority of committee members here feel like uh we should uh pursue membership on the financial

[3:54:30] Voice 14: planning committee or not that's what i would request trustee

[3:54:37] Voice 15: harris oh well i guess i'm

[3:54:39] Voice 15: partially putting my hand up um in response to what um trustee peterson just proposed and i

[3:54:45] Voice 15: I would be in support of having a member of the government's committee sit on FPC as a voting

[3:54:50] Voice 15: member.

[3:54:51] Voice 6: Thanks. Trustee Stamford?

[3:54:54] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, I'm putting my hand up in support. There's no reason not to.

[3:54:57] Trustee Stamford: We're a standing committee like the other committees. We should be there. I'm thinking

[3:55:04] Voice 6: that in the discussion that we've had earlier about budgeting, that we took $15,000 off the

[3:55:12] Voice 6: the table because we didn't think we would get to it in this fiscal year or this budget cycle but

[3:55:18] Voice 6: you know that was something that in general terms was thought to be I don't know if it was sufficient

[3:55:25] Voice 6: but something that the committee could use so it seems to me that if that needs advocate advocacy

[3:55:31] Voice 6: that that that might be the reason in terms of wanting to have a voice on it and not putting

[3:55:38] Voice 6: yourself or any of the other members that are already on the committee in a position

[3:55:41] Voice 6: we can figure out who can who can be the representative but it seems to me that there

[3:55:45] Voice 6: might be some uh budget concerns trustee middleton

[3:55:49] Trustee Middleton: thank you chair i think based on some of the in

[3:55:54] Trustee Middleton: information in the report and earlier conversations the idea being that the work of the governance

[3:56:02] Trustee Middleton: committee will at some point inevitably touch upon how the budget is prepared the budget will

[3:56:08] Trustee Middleton: you know this is aspirational thinking it may not be may not come to pass but the idea being

[3:56:13] Trustee Middleton: that the strategic plan morphing into a corporate plan actually itself then drives the budget so

[3:56:19] Trustee Middleton: these are obviously systemic and or procedural conversations that will be had between the two

[3:56:25] Trustee Middleton: committees that's you know i could say it's conjectural but at some point down the road

[3:56:29] Trustee Middleton: that that's exactly why i think we would need uh to have a conduit or representative on financial

[3:56:35] Trustee Middleton: financial planning committee and and just as a if I may just a a related point I don't know that I

[3:56:41] Trustee Middleton: recall there was no intention to exclude uh the governance committee from membership on the

[3:56:47] Trustee Middleton: financial planning committee by the previous Council I think it's just the way the policies

[3:56:51] Trustee Middleton: were drafted that would that just dropped off the the footnote to the governance committee as a

[3:56:57] Trustee Middleton: member of the financial planning committee um you know somebody could tell me otherwise but I I do

[3:57:02] Trustee Middleton: i don't recall any conversation um that would lead us to think otherwise thank you all right

[3:57:11] Voice 5: straw poll or motion well

[3:57:19] Trustee Bernardo: why don't we have the straw poll and see how it goes and then

[3:57:21] Trustee Bernardo: it might well it might well lead us to dispose of this thing in a big hurry who knows yeah

[3:57:26] Voice 6: all right so let's have a show of hands for people that would be in favor

[3:57:30] Voice 6: of having a representative on the finance committee there we go anonymous unanimous again

[3:57:41] Voice 6: words all right so um short work who wants a motion

[3:57:48] Voice 6: over to

[3:57:49] Trustee Bernardo: the able trustee peterson who's a whiz at it he

[3:57:52] Voice 6: looks like he's typing madly too

[3:57:53] Voice 6: thank

[3:57:56] Voice 14: you i was typing badly and i think i'm close enough uh i move that the government's

[3:58:01] Voice 14: governance committee requests staff to prepare policy amendments to permit

[3:58:08] Voice 14: governance committee representation on financial planning committee who i might want to reach out

[3:58:17] Voice 14: to staff here and for a suggestion on how and like how best where best to report back should

[3:58:25] Voice 14: we have you report back to us should we have you just report directly to trust council

[3:58:30] Voice 14: isn't

[3:58:31] Trustee Bernardo: this just haven't we just uh indicated that what we want is a request for decision by trust

[3:58:37] Trustee Bernardo: trust council to okay make explicit that that that's that the governance committee uh should

[3:58:45] Trustee Bernardo: be given a permanent seat on the fpc like all other standing committees yeah okay so trust

[3:58:53] Voice 14: council that's that's that's the the information i was looking for so that governance committee

[3:58:58] Voice 14: requests staff to prepare policy amendments uh no

[3:59:03] Voice 8: mr madam chair yes i don't think this committee

[3:59:08] Voice 8: can ask trust council to amend its policies i think trust council has to amend its policies

[3:59:12] Voice 8: but you could refer this issue to trust council for clarification and then policies would be

[3:59:18] Voice 8: amended what excuse

[3:59:20] Trustee Bernardo: me is it not permitted to ask trust council for that as a as a decision

[3:59:25] Trustee Bernardo: but

[3:59:27] Voice 8: you're asking us to amend the policies first do you not want to address the issue first and

[3:59:32] Voice 8: then find out whether that work should be done if

[3:59:36] Voice 5: i can i'm

[3:59:38] Voice 8: sorry go ahead

[3:59:39] Trustee Bernardo: uh

[3:59:41] Voice 14: yeah i hadn't quite

[3:59:42] Voice 14: finished uh uh that governance committee request staff to prepare policy amendments for uh to

[3:59:52] Voice 14: uh allow for governance committee representation on financial planning committee uh

[3:59:59] Voice 14: Uh...

[4:00:00] Voice 14: uh for uh presentation and decision by

[4:00:06] Voice 5: trust council is that a bit more clear so we get it

[4:00:14] Voice 5: on the agenda does

[4:00:17] Voice 15: there need to be some wording in there i'm sorry um go ahead um does there need

[4:00:22] Voice 15: to be wording in there to the effect of that it needs to be somebody from governance committee

[4:00:30] Voice 15: that isn't already on the financial planning committee?

[4:00:38] Voice 6: Well, that's a further discussion for us.

[4:00:41] Voice 6: Who's going to be the representative?

[4:00:45] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, I mean, that doesn't seem to be something

[4:00:47] Trustee Bernardo: that is up to the trust council.

[4:00:50] Trustee Bernardo: That's how we conduct our own business here.

[4:00:52] Trustee Bernardo: But just as a matter of common sense,

[4:00:55] Trustee Bernardo: sending somebody off to any committee with two votes

[4:00:59] Trustee Bernardo: is a little on the weird side.

[4:01:00] Trustee Bernardo: So I would expect it to be somebody

[4:01:02] Trustee Bernardo: who who isn't already uh um condemned to being on the fpc it's going to have to be a new victim

[4:01:11] Voice 6: choice of words trustee middleton thank

[4:01:16] Trustee Middleton: you i i would i would suggest that

[4:01:20] Trustee Middleton: it um even though maybe uh uh or to respect our ceo's comments it may feel slightly out of order

[4:01:28] Trustee Middleton: i i do firmly believe this is an administrative or shall we say almost a drafting error in the

[4:01:33] Trustee Middleton: policy that we're we've noted because we're the recipients of the policy and therefore we're

[4:01:38] Trustee Middleton: we're correcting that error and asking uh council to simply endorse the redraft um i don't as i say

[4:01:46] Trustee Middleton: i don't think it's a particularly controversial adjustment so i would say for the sake of

[4:01:52] Trustee Middleton: efficiency that we you know the motion as as written i think captures our intent instruct

[4:01:56] Trustee Middleton: staff to rewrite the policy which is very minor amendment as i think we all realize and then that

[4:02:01] Trustee Middleton: that just doesn't matter of housekeeping council vote on that in march

[4:02:04] Voice 5: thank you clear mr cao

[4:02:15] Voice 5: sure all

[4:02:16] Voice 6: right so um i don't see the motion but we've got oh there it is um do

[4:02:26] Voice 5: we have a seconder

[4:02:32] Voice 5: trustee middleton okay any just any more discussion call the question all those in favor

[4:02:40] Voice 5: another unanimous good okay i think we're there right exactly on time you guys are good

[4:03:03] Trustee Bernardo: oh that's not quite right our chair is good you got it here thank you yes

[4:03:09] Trustee Middleton: thank you well this is

[4:03:10] Voice 6: very new for me so well it's a bit of a steep learning curve i didn't dither too much and um

[4:03:16] Voice 6: you're a very good group to work with so i'm looking forward to this um we've got some homework

[4:03:21] Voice 6: work um review the governance uh report uh and get your comments to everybody before the next

[4:03:27] Voice 6: meeting um we're going to russ and i are going to work on uh some preliminaries if we can in

[4:03:33] Voice 6: terms of structure of meetings uh come with ideas about working groups and um staff are going to

[4:03:39] Voice 6: give us a rough outline of meeting dates and we'll fill in all the rest with the whatever

[4:03:43] Voice 6: ever else comes up okay this

[4:03:47] Trustee Bernardo: is terrific real progress thank you see

[4:03:50] Voice 6: you on the 10th at nine

[4:03:52] Trustee Middleton: thank you chair thank you everyone bye-bye okay

[4:03:56] Voice 6: motion to adjourn

[4:03:57] Voice 6: thanks good night night or

[4:04:00] Voice 6: afternoon morning whatever thanks laurie thank you all yes thank you

Governance Committee Meeting Minutes  Page 1 of 6 
January 19, 2023 ADOPTED 
 
Governance Committee 
Minutes of Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
Thursday, January 19, 2023 
Electronic Zoom Meeting 
 
Members Present: Joe  Bernardo, Gambier/Keats Island Local Trust Committee (LTC) 
Judi Gedye, Bowen Island Municipality 
Jamie Harris, Salt Spring Island LTC 
Peter Luckham, Chair, Islands Trust Council, Thetis Island LTC (ex-officio) 
Lee Middleton, Saturna Island LTC 
Laura Patrick, Salt Spring Island LTC 
Tim Peterson, Lasqueti Island LTC 
Kate-Louise Stamford, Gambier Island LTC 
 
   
Staff Present: Russ Hotsenpiller, Chief Administrative Officer (CAO)  
 Clare Frater, Director, Trust Area Services (DTAS)  
 Lori Foster, Recorder  
   
Members of the public 
present: 
 
There were up to 2 members of the public attending electronically 
The 
 
The meeting was conducted electronically where the public could see and hear the meeting at the 
Victoria boardroom office, #200 1627 Fort Street, Victoria, British Columbia as well as attend 
electronically. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
 
Chief Administrative Officer (CAO) Hotsenpiller called the meeting to order at 10:01 a.m. giving 
a territorial acknowledgement that the meeting was being held on the traditional and treaty 
territories of many Coast Salish First Nations. 
 
This was the inaugural meeting of the 2022-2026 term Governance Committee whose members 
were elected by Islands Trust Council at its December 2022 meeting. 
 
2. ELECTIONS OF CHAIR / VICE-CHAIR 
 
CAO Hotsenpiller addressed the first order of business, to elect a chair and vice-chair from 
amongst the members of the Governance Committee.   
 
DTAS Frater spoke to the process, hearing no questions, conducted the election. 
 
Nominations for the position of chair were called. 
 
 
 

Governance Committee Meeting Minutes  Page 2 of 6 
January 19, 2023 ADOPTED 
GC-2023-001 
It was Moved by Trustee Bernardo and Seconded by Trustee Patrick, 
That Trustee Gedye be nominated for the position of Chair of the Governance Committee. 
 
Trustee Gedye accepted the nomination. 
 
DTAS Frater called (three) 3 times for further nominations for the position of Chair of the 
Governance Committee, there were no further nominations. 
 
By acclamation, Director of Trust Area Services Frater, congratulated Trustee Gedye as Chair of 
the Governance Committee. 
 
Nominations for the position of vice-chair were called. 
 
GC-2023-002 
It was Moved by Trustee Middleton and Seconded by Trustee Peterson, 
That Trustee Harris be nominated for the position of Vice-Chair of the Governance Committee. 
 
Trustee Harris accepted the nomination. 
 
DTAS Frater called again for further nominations for the position of Vice-Chair of the 
Governance Committee. 
 
GC-2023-003 
It was Moved by Trustee Gedye and Seconded by Trustee Peterson, 
That Trustee Bernardo be nominated for the position of Vice-Chair of the Governance 
Committee. 
 
Trustee Bernardo declined the nomination. 
 
DTAS Frater called (two) 2 more times for nominations for the position of Chair of the 
Governance Committee, there were no further nominations. 
 
By acclamation, Director of Trust Area Services Frater, congratulated Trustee Harris as Vice-
Chair of the Governance Committee. 
 
3. AGENDA 
 
Chair Gedye addressed the agenda as presented. 
 
3.1 New Items and Re-Ordering of the Agenda 
 
Chair Gedye noted the late items addendum for addition to the agenda: 
 8.4.1 Draft Budget 2023/23 Review of Funding Requests – Briefing 
 11.2.1 Item 4.4 from December Trust Council re: Provincial Review 
 11.3 M. Gang re: need for review and restructure email dated November 10, 2022 
 
 

Governance Committee Meeting Minutes  Page 3 of 6 
January 19, 2023 ADOPTED 
3.2 Approval of Agenda 
 
GC-2023-004 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
That the Governance Committee approve the agenda, as circulated, with the late items. 
 
CARRIED 
 
4. PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD – None 
 
5. DELEGATIONS – None 
 
6. GOVERNANCE COMMITTEE ORIENTATION 
 
CAO Hotsenpiller spoke to the orientation items as presented in 6.1 to 6.3. included in the 
agenda package. 
 
6.1 Governance Committee Terms of Reference Policy 2.3.5 – Review 
6.2 Council Committee System Policy 2.3.1 – Review 
6.3 Summary of 2018-2022 Trust Council Governance Priorities Workshop – Briefing 
 
7. ADMINISTRATIVE COORDINATION 
 
7.1 Draft minutes of September 2, 2022 for adoption 
 
It was noted that these minutes were from last term’s committee of which Trustees 
Middleton (then chair), Stamford, Luckham, and Peterson were present. 
 
GC-2023-005 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
That the draft Governance Committee minutes of September, 2022, be adopted as 
presented. 
 
CARRIED 
 
7.2 Resolutions Without Meeting - None 
 
7.3 Follow up Action List (FUAL) 
 
Discussion followed on the tracking of committee action items as presented in the FUAL.  
Comments were heard on creating a “parking lot” for other business items or ideas for 
consideration. 
 
By general consent, the Governance Committee, in its designation as a standing 
committee, tabled discussion to later in this meeting to address the oversight of its 
representation on the Financial Planning Committee. 
 
Comments were heard on how to use WebDAV as a repository for idea items. 

Governance Committee Meeting Minutes  Page 4 of 6 
January 19, 2023 ADOPTED 
8. BUSINESS - WORK PROGRAM ITEMS 
 
8.1 Trust Programs Committee (TPC) Follow-up Action List item Referred to Governance 
Committee – Briefing 
 
CAO Hotsenpiller spoke to this item summarizing the history of service integration work 
by the Trust Programs Committee. 
 
8.2 Meeting Structure – Discussion 
 
Discussion ensued on the following: 
 Types of meetings including working groups, gatherings and shirt sleeve sessions, 
 Creating working groups, assigning tasks, bringing back to the larger committee, 
 Formal meetings inhibit open discussion, 
 Allowing for open and experimental discussions, 
 Committee of the Whole meetings, 
 Legislation applicable to meetings including the Community Charter, Local 
Government Act and Islands Trust Act, 
 
By general consent, that Chair Gedye and CAO Hotsenpiller work on the questions to 
ask regarding a legal opinion on open/closed meetings, workshops and quorum. 
 
GC-2023-006 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
THAT the Chair of Governance Committee work with staff to investigate options for a 
less formal meeting structure. 
CARRIED 
8.3 Business Priorities – Discussion 
 
Discussion followed on prioritizing business items following from the Governance 
Review Report, February 2022, recommendations. 
 
GC-2023-007 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
THAT Governance Committee members examine the complete Governance Report 
including annexes and bring back notes and priorities for discussion at the next meeting; 
that Trustees circulate their information to other members prior to the next meeting. 
 
CARRIED 
8.4 Budget – Discussion 
 
8.4.1 Draft Budget 2023/24 Review of Funding Requests - Briefing 
 
GC addressed the late item referred from Financial Planning Committee's (FPC) 
January 18, 2023 meeting requesting the Governance Committee (GC) review a 
$15,000 budget line item earmarked as funds for consultant work. 
 

Governance Committee Meeting Minutes  Page 5 of 6 
January 19, 2023 ADOPTED 
Discussion ensued on the following: 
 Probably not needing to hire a consultant/expert for this year’s work, 
 Increasing the $1,000 general meeting funds amount, 
 Covering of legal opinion costs. 
 
GC-2023-008 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
That the Governance Committee request operational funds in the draft 2023/24 
budget be increased to $3,000 and the $15,000 contingency fund for expert 
advice be removed. 
 
CARRIED 
 
The meeting recessed for lunch at 12:25 p.m. and reconvened at 1:03 p.m. 
 
8.5 Draft 2023 Governance Committee meeting schedule – Discussion 
 
Discussion ensued on scheduling the Governance Committee’s 2023 meetings and 
possibly meeting in-person.  
 
By general consent, staff will bring back options to the next business meeting for the 
Governance Committee’s meeting frequency in 2023. 
 
GC-2023-009 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
That the next Governance Committee meeting is scheduled to be held electronically, 
Friday, February 10, 2023, beginning at 9:00 am. 
CARRIED 
 
9. BUSINESS – OTHER - None 
10. BUSINESS – NEW – None 
 
11. CORRESPONDENCE 
 
11.1 Trustee Busheikin re: Task for the Governance Committee email dated September 26, 
2022 
 
Received for information. 
 
11.2 Minister Cullen response re: Provincial Review request letter dated September 23, 
2022 
 
11.2.1 Item 4.4 from December Trust Council re: Provincial Review 
 
Received for information. 
 
 
 

Governance Committee Meeting Minutes  Page 6 of 6 
January 19, 2023 ADOPTED 
11.3 M. Gang re: need for review and restructure email dated November 10, 2022 
 
By general consent, forward item 11.3 M. Gang re: need for review and restructure 
email dated November 10, 2022 to next meeting. 
 
12. WORK PROGRAM 
 
By general consent, discussion of the Governance Committee’s Work Program was tabled to its 
next business meeting. 
 
13. NEXT MEETING 
 
The next meeting is scheduled to be held electronically, Friday, February 10, 2023, beginning at 
9:00 a.m. 
 
14. CLOSED MEETING – None 
15. RISE AND REPORT – None 
 
16. ADJOURNMENT 
 
Prior to adjournment, the Governance Committee discussed its lack of representation on the 
Financial Planning Committee, as it is now a new standing committee, that this was possibly an 
oversight when committee policies were updated.  
 
Chair Gedye determined by a “straw poll” unanimous consent that the Governance Committee 
wishes to be included as a standing committee member of the Financial Planning Committee. 
 
GC-2023-010 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
That the Governance Committee request staff to prepare policy amendments to allow for 
Governance Committee representation on the Financial Planning Committee for discussion and 
decision by Trust Council. 
CARRIED 
 
By general consent, the meeting was adjourned at 2:05 p.m. 
 
_________________________ 
Judi Gedye, Chair 
 
Certified Correct 
 
_________________________ 
Lori Foster, Recorder