Islands Trust Council regular meeting, April 17, 2023

[0:00:00] Voice 10: Okay. We are now live streaming. So call the meeting to order. And the first and most important item of business. There's the recording. Sorry, I started a little too soon. Call the meeting to order. 901.

[0:00:17] Voice 10: uh most important part is to be thankful in terms of uh we're doing our work and having our meeting

[0:00:23] Voice 10: on uh traditional territory um and it's been well managed for thousands of years and here we are

[0:00:32] Voice 10: lucky to share it oh thank you laurie that's beautiful um you know i'm you've covered up my

[0:00:41] Voice 10: agenda. But let me see if I can figure out. Oh, thank you. Okay. So the agenda, 2.1, new items

[0:00:56] Voice 10: and reordering. So I sent out a couple of messages over the weekend. And to repeat those, there's a

[0:01:02] Voice 10: piece of correspondence that I, it was addressed to the whole governance committee, but I think I

[0:01:07] Voice 10: I was the only one that received it, and I shared that in an email.

[0:01:11] Voice 10: So we can add that to correspondence later in number five.

[0:01:16] Voice 10: And then I thought we should reorder the business of the work program items in seven.

[0:01:25] Voice 10: Instead of what has been printed out here on the agenda, I'm going to suggest that we do 7.5, the matrix, and have a look at that and see if that is still helpful.

[0:01:35] Voice 10: and then talk about 7.2 open and informal meeting protocols

[0:01:39] Voice 10: and what we want to do about that.

[0:01:42] Voice 10: 7.6 was just supposed to be the main part of today's agenda

[0:01:46] Voice 10: was Section 3 mandate and at least start the discussion on that.

[0:01:52] Voice 10: And then Lee Middleton, who I don't see has joined us yet.

[0:01:58] Voice 10: He had a proposal in terms of his secretariat idea

[0:02:05] Voice 10: and then there's um the 7.1 financial planning subcommittee receipt of their draft corporate

[0:02:12] Voice 10: plan and briefing and joe i think there's a motion that's going to come um as part of that

[0:02:18] Voice 10: yep then um 7.4 in this agenda is referrals to the governance committee and a review of that

[0:02:26] Voice 10: so uh laura uh trustee patrick your hand is up yeah

[0:02:31] Trustee Patrick: i just um i think we discussed right before

[0:02:33] Trustee Patrick: earlier that under that 7.4 it'd be nice to also just sort of discuss referrals in general of you

[0:02:39] Trustee Patrick: know the nature of things being sent to us and have a conversation about that

[0:02:42] Voice 10: okay if i forget

[0:02:44] Voice 10: if you can remind me please um all right the other item is whether or not in the section three

[0:02:56] Voice 10: discussion when we get to that um we've had a lot of um legal opinions that have been given to us

[0:03:05] Voice 10: um a couple of weeks ago uh about section three and whether or not we want to because those are

[0:03:13] Voice 10: privileged uh solicitor client um memos whether or not we want to go into a closed meeting to

[0:03:19] Voice 10: to review those or whether or not we can have

[0:03:24] Voice 10: a general discussion without getting into specifics.

[0:03:27] Voice 10: So when we come to that point in the agenda,

[0:03:30] Voice 10: David, correct me if I'm wrong,

[0:03:32] Voice 10: then we can decide then whether or not

[0:03:37] Voice 10: we want to go into a closed meeting

[0:03:39] Voice 10: and review that material.

[0:03:41] Voice 5: That is correct.

[0:03:42] Voice 5: And we'll have a resolution for you,

[0:03:45] Voice 5: ready if you decide to do that.

[0:03:46] Voice 5: you do a resolution open meeting to close the meeting and specify the reasons for it

[0:03:51] Voice 10: okay so

[0:03:53] Voice 10: the the reasons would be 90.1 sub 1 which would be privileged documents correct

[0:03:58] Voice 6: russ uh yes madam

[0:04:01] Voice 6: chair so absolutely you can go on camera if if you had a number of reasons you wanted to go on camera

[0:04:10] Voice 6: um it would be good to just have all those in one in camera meeting instead of going in and out in

[0:04:15] Voice 6: in and out. You might want to consider talking about that topic last, because then if you needed

[0:04:23] Voice 6: to go in camera, you would then simply go in camera to conclude your meeting, the one that

[0:04:29] Voice 6: you anticipate having the most legal review in that section three. But I leave that to you. It's

[0:04:36] Voice 6: up to you. That'd just be a matter of convenience for yourselves.

[0:04:39] Voice 10: I think if we did go in, it would

[0:04:41] Voice 10: would be just general background and getting us up to speed for the discussion i'm not sure that we

[0:04:46] Voice 10: um need to have a um i think it would be before we have the discussion on section three

[0:04:54] Voice 10: okay when we would need it um so it'd be a little bit awkward but i think it would

[0:05:01] Voice 10: rather than ending up and going off camera laurie are there um we have visitors do we have um

[0:05:09] Voice 10: members of the public i

[0:05:13] Voice 1: see uh trustee boland is in as an attendee so member of the public

[0:05:18] Voice 1: just one person all

[0:05:19] Voice 10: right so then we need we just need to make sure that we've got a clear

[0:05:23] Voice 10: heads up for um how long we think we might be if we if it's in the middle of the meeting and we

[0:05:29] Voice 10: have something closed so we can do the backgrounder and then so the members of the public can come

[0:05:34] Voice 10: back in fair enough okay

[0:05:38] Voice 10: so um additions any other additions and um any comments on the reordering

[0:05:46] Voice 10: all right so then um can i get a motion to approve that

[0:05:55] Voice 12: changed agenda i move second

[0:06:02] Voice 12: laura trustee

[0:06:03] Voice 10: patrick okay and any opposed all right so carried unanimously public comment

[0:06:10] Voice 10: comment period. Anybody want to make comments from the public?

[0:06:21] Voice 12: Okay. Any delegations? None

[0:06:27] Voice 10: that I've heard of. All right. So then we get to correspondence. So the item that I

[0:06:35] Voice 10: referred to was a letter from Stephen Wright. I gather he's a former trustee from South

[0:06:40] Voice 10: both pender. And I shared that yesterday and forwarded the email to me. It hasn't formed part

[0:06:48] Voice 10: of this agenda. So I think at this point, and I believe the content of that is that what we're

[0:06:54] Voice 10: going to be discussing mostly today. But I'm going to suggest that it go on to our agenda simply for

[0:07:01] Voice 10: information. And if we need to have any further discussion about it, that the public can have a

[0:07:07] Voice 10: chance to read it in our um minutes that come out and we can deal with it next time if we need to

[0:07:13] Voice 10: any problem with that okay so um steve's correspondence then added to the agenda

[0:07:23] Voice 10: under section five for information um administrative coordination 6.1 um draft

[0:07:32] Voice 10: minutes of february the 10th 2023 any problem with that the

[0:07:39] Voice 12: minutes okay can i get a motion

[0:07:42] Voice 12: Motion to move it.

[0:07:44] Voice 12: Acceptance.

[0:07:47] Voice 10: Thank you, Joe.

[0:07:48] Voice 10: And seconded by Kate Louise.

[0:07:52] Voice 10: Any discussion?

[0:07:54] Voice 10: Oh, there's Eileen.

[0:07:57] Trustee Middleton: Sorry to be late.

[0:07:59] Voice 10: Okay.

[0:08:00] Voice 10: We're just at the minutes, 6.1.

[0:08:06] Voice 10: All those in favor of adoption?

[0:08:09] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:08:10] Voice 10: That passes.

[0:08:11] Voice 10: No resolutions without meeting.

[0:08:13] Voice 10: The follow-up action list, I think we can review that quickly if we want,

[0:08:18] Voice 10: but i think it's all on our uh agenda anybody

[0:08:23] Voice 12: want to raise anything good business so

[0:08:30] Voice 10: um 7.5

[0:08:32] Voice 10: the matrix so that's on page 26 the very last page of the agenda and that was that um suggestion that

[0:08:43] Voice 10: i had of um urgent and important and in our top right hand corner urgent and high priority is the

[0:08:53] Voice 10: the Section 3 mandate, the strategic corporate planning process, and the meeting process.

[0:08:58] Voice 10: We haven't gotten into the bylaw, but we do have our discussion about open and informal

[0:09:06] Voice 10: meetings.

[0:09:09] Voice 10: So what Lee wants to talk about is on the top left-hand corner is the Secretariat Needs

[0:09:21] Voice 10: Research, and he's going to be presenting on that.

[0:09:23] Voice 10: So that is going to be moved over.

[0:09:26] Voice 10: I guess at this point, I'm wondering if this matrix is still helpful in terms of our work plan.

[0:09:33] Voice 12: Joe?

[0:09:36] Voice 12: I think it is.

[0:09:37] Trustee Bernardo: I think it continues to reflect the priorities that we discussed, obviously, last time.

[0:09:44] Trustee Bernardo: But also, I can say that in practice, the work that the working group at FPC put into the corporate planning process has been pretty fruitful.

[0:09:58] Trustee Bernardo: There certainly seems to be a consensus at that end that this is an important and useful thing to do.

[0:10:03] Trustee Bernardo: And as part of that, the Section 3 mandate interpretation issue, which is a larger one than corporate planning,

[0:10:12] Trustee Bernardo: but it's it became understandably a priority in the corporate planning thing uh the work that the

[0:10:20] Trustee Bernardo: working group has done so those two things actually work together and it makes sense

[0:10:25] Trustee Bernardo: that they're in that part of the matrix so with respect to those two items i think uh

[0:10:32] Trustee Bernardo: just in these early days practice is showing that yeah they are a priority and they actually belong

[0:10:37] Trustee Bernardo: along together and as to whether or not

[0:10:42] Trustee Bernardo: we move meeting process into a different quadrant

[0:10:45] Trustee Bernardo: or we keep it there or we move something else in,

[0:10:47] Trustee Bernardo: I've got no views, but to me,

[0:10:50] Trustee Bernardo: what we have in terms of urgent high priority

[0:10:52] Trustee Bernardo: looks pretty plausible to me, thank you.

[0:10:57] Voice 12: Kate Louise.

[0:11:01] Voice 12: I'm

[0:11:02] Trustee Stamford: just more and more concerned as we move along

[0:11:07] Trustee Stamford: how communications is happening or not happening.

[0:11:11] Trustee Stamford: I see it under urgent but lower priority, and I understand why.

[0:11:17] Trustee Stamford: But I also think the longer we work on this, there's got to be a strategy on how items are communicated out.

[0:11:28] Trustee Stamford: And that's just specific to this project.

[0:11:30] Trustee Stamford: But I think in general, if we just leave it, it's going to become more and more of an issue.

[0:11:38] Trustee Stamford: And we're going to have to, it's going to supersede everything else as soon as we hit a crisis of some kind. I really think this needs to be dealt with in a more strategic way sooner rather than later.

[0:11:53] Trustee Stamford: All

[0:11:55] Voice 10: right. If we're going to continue to use the matrix itself, then I guess I would like a discussion in terms of, do we want to review this ahead of the meeting as a reminder and have some suggestions at the opening of a meeting in terms of how to rearrange things and where to bump it up or move it down?

[0:12:18] Voice 10: Or at the end of a meeting as some sort of a next step?

[0:12:21] Voice 10: um if we're going to use the the matrix if it's helpful in terms of reminding us and there's

[0:12:29] Voice 10: things that are going to get added obviously uh some of those referrals possibly and um

[0:12:35] Voice 10: as a reminder this was just from the 15 recommendations of the governance review

[0:12:42] Voice 10: so this was our starting shot at that document but um some i guess some thought and some

[0:12:52] Voice 10: preference in terms of how to best use this as a help. Russ?

[0:12:57] Voice 6: Yes, Madam Chair. So just in keeping

[0:13:00] Voice 6: with the other committees and how the work program is managed, this is a departure, but it might be

[0:13:06] Voice 6: because that's the way you want to do it. And that's fine. The other committees, including

[0:13:14] Voice 6: Trust Council, Executive Committee, and the other standing committees have their top three priorities

[0:13:19] Voice 6: and then essentially a long list and they report those out it's also a communications tool they

[0:13:25] Voice 6: report those out to trust council at the quarterly meetings so this you

[0:13:34] Voice 2: know at your direction will

[0:13:36] Voice 2: live on um but as you direct work i i would be assuming

[0:13:44] Voice 6: that the urgent and high priority become

[0:13:46] Voice 6: come your work plan that we begin to do work on as directed and um you may or may not change that

[0:13:56] Voice 6: and you'll communicate that to trust counsel i'm just trying to keep you generally um like the

[0:14:00] Voice 6: other institutions enough so that when you communicate with them they know what you're

[0:14:03] Voice 6: talking about and that we can ensure that um from an administrative perspective we're working on the

[0:14:09] Voice 6: things that you've you've indicated just wanted to make that make that point

[0:14:13] Voice 10: so this is this would

[0:14:14] Voice 10: be helpful internally um not necessarily uh do we have should we explain this to trust council

[0:14:23] Voice 6: well i think you had a a brief discussion of that and was the graphic not put up at the last trust

[0:14:28] Voice 6: council or did we not get there i

[0:14:31] Voice 10: don't think we got them

[0:14:32] Voice 6: okay so i think you would want to

[0:14:35] Voice 6: um at at the next meeting discuss your work plan and if this is the vehicle by which you

[0:14:42] Voice 6: think is the most effective way to do it that's great the other point i'll make is this is all

[0:14:47] Voice 6: about the governance review there may be other governance issues that are outside of the

[0:14:53] Voice 6: governance the review that are still your work planning items and i don't know how they get into

[0:14:57] Voice 6: this matrix this seems like a single topic though a huge one this

[0:15:02] Voice 10: was our start and i think we just

[0:15:04] Voice 10: keep adding to it and shifting it around sorry uh trustee patrick yeah

[0:15:10] Trustee Patrick: um i am all for this

[0:15:12] Trustee Patrick: this committee doing things differently because I think we do it the same then we're not making

[0:15:16] Trustee Patrick: any change I think we can solve the problem easily by giving another you know either color

[0:15:21] Trustee Patrick: graphics or a clear title that urgent and high priority is our work program if something ends

[0:15:28] Trustee Patrick: in that quadrant we are that that that is our work program and I think you know having the other

[0:15:34] Trustee Patrick: quadrants there is instead of one long list kind of shows the division of that work I think as we

[0:15:40] Trustee Patrick: go forward uh the conversation that i was hoping we have during the referrals is that how do we

[0:15:45] Trustee Patrick: you know we should be adding and subtracting off the list as we as we progress through time you

[0:15:50] Trustee Patrick: know there will so where we visited at the beginning or end of a meeting um i think it

[0:15:55] Trustee Patrick: would be good practice and that we we make this be a live document that we we keep going forward

[0:16:02] Voice 12: thanks trustee bernardo thank you um yeah

[0:16:08] Trustee Bernardo: i i'm sympathetic to the idea of uh as trustee

[0:16:13] Trustee Bernardo: Patrick mentioned treating this as a live kind of document to help us focus on things but I think

[0:16:20] Trustee Bernardo: we do have to strike a balance here of not there's some things I think once we started doing work on

[0:16:27] Trustee Bernardo: a project I think the CAO makes a good point which is that changes the character of the priority

[0:16:33] Trustee Bernardo: that's actual work we've committed ourselves to something unless there's a very good reason we

[0:16:39] Trustee Bernardo: We ought not to be changing the priorities there.

[0:16:41] Trustee Bernardo: We've kind of made it a priority with our feet, so we need to finish the thing.

[0:16:47] Trustee Bernardo: So I think we do have to distinguish in our minds between the works that once we started a project, for example, corporate planning or something else, that needs to be treated differently.

[0:16:57] Trustee Bernardo: And the CEO's suggestion that perhaps that, you know, it can be integrated into a similar process to the other committees operate under so that it's all intelligible to the rest of the rest of the organization.

[0:17:11] Trustee Bernardo: That kind of makes sense. But my sense of it, more of my perspective on this is once we started doing some work on something and we've identified it as the top priority, then that stays there.

[0:17:22] Trustee Bernardo: Mayor Mrakas, And we ought not to have a debate about it every meeting, because you know that's ongoing work, the debate, I think, is probably going to be about as events transpire about changing priorities with respect to the things that are in the other three matrix quadrants and what to do with the referrals and we're going to talk about that later, but I would i'd be surprised if the referrals.

[0:17:51] Trustee Bernardo: had concepts or ideas or notions that if not directly addressed by the governance review

[0:17:59] Trustee Bernardo: intersected with some of the topics that are in there already it's a pretty that was a pretty

[0:18:03] Trustee Bernardo: comprehensive review of governance issues so I would expect any further referrals

[0:18:08] Trustee Bernardo: can be probably seen in light of that previous work I do have a question for

[0:18:18] Trustee Bernardo: trustee stamford when you were referring when she was referring to communication i wasn't clear

[0:18:25] Trustee Bernardo: whether it was communication from this committee or communications how the islands trust does

[0:18:32] Trustee Bernardo: communication because from the review obviously the review was all about how the islands trust

[0:18:38] Trustee Bernardo: could do a better job with communication is that what trustee stamford is that what you're asking

[0:18:42] Trustee Bernardo: or talking about that we need to sort of add some urgency to that or are you talking about

[0:18:47] Trustee Bernardo: the governance committee uh being very deliberate about communicating what it's doing to the rest of

[0:18:52] Trustee Bernardo: the organization thank you

[0:18:55] Trustee Stamford: yeah thank you joe um it's a bit of both i think um i i can see

[0:19:03] Trustee Stamford: that we are operating like a regular committee but how we um communicate out i would like to see

[0:19:13] Trustee Stamford: clarified um how we make that palatable not just to trustees but this is uh this whole uh project

[0:19:24] Trustee Stamford: has become uh quite important to the public in general so i would like to see a strategy

[0:19:31] Trustee Stamford: included on how we work uh on these in these meetings on these um activities part and parcel

[0:19:40] Trustee Stamford: with everything is how do we communicate out so that's specifically for that but yeah I think

[0:19:47] Trustee Stamford: you know I'm hoping to see in our strategic planning for the trust council as a whole

[0:19:52] Trustee Stamford: communications discussed as a whole so that that topic which is urgent but lower priority that

[0:20:00] Trustee Stamford: overall topic is also front and center because I just really think we're not

[0:20:08] Trustee Stamford: doing as much as we could or should be given how people's interest in how their communication

[0:20:15] Trustee Stamford: communication is just so much more sophisticated than what we're doing right now and i know it's

[0:20:20] Trustee Stamford: capacity i know there's a lot of issues around it but um i think if we're not dealing with it

[0:20:26] Trustee Stamford: it's gonna a lot of our issues are around how things are communicated out

[0:20:31] Voice 12: so christy peterson

[0:20:35] Voice 12: and uh

[0:20:38] Voice 11: thank you chair so um i think the matrix is is useful for us as a tool but i don't see

[0:20:45] Voice 11: any particular reason um why we can't report out to trust council uh using a top priority

[0:20:54] Voice 11: uh and projects list like other other committees i don't see that as being a like adding a big

[0:21:01] Voice 11: workload um it just helps i think it will help uh as we report out to trust council um to use a

[0:21:12] Voice 11: the familiar format i i don't see that as being problematic and i think we can totally retain

[0:21:18] Voice 11: the matrix for our own use uh in our discussion but also in sort of support of that is my

[0:21:25] Voice 11: my understanding that as far as allocating staff resources,

[0:21:31] Voice 11: putting things on the top priority list

[0:21:34] Voice 11: is one of the ways that we allocate and address that factor.

[0:21:40] Voice 11: As far as addressing the matrix on a regular basis

[0:21:46] Voice 11: in the meetings, I think it's absolutely appropriate

[0:21:49] Voice 11: for us to have a look at it.

[0:21:53] Voice 11: And it doesn't really matter to me

[0:21:55] Voice 11: that much whether we address it at the end of the meeting although i can see that that would be uh

[0:22:01] Voice 11: uh one way of sort of reflecting that meeting's discussion to just have a little look and see

[0:22:06] Voice 11: if we want to tweak anything on that um but in terms of the cao suggestion again there's things

[0:22:13] Voice 11: that might not fit into this matrix that we still might want to have on our on our to-do list so i

[0:22:19] Voice 11: I just wanted to voice some support for that.

[0:22:24] Voice 10: Okay, so let's leave it for now.

[0:22:28] Voice 10: Depending on how long we take

[0:22:30] Voice 10: for some of these other discussions,

[0:22:32] Voice 10: we can come back and try and cap.

[0:22:34] Voice 10: Oh, sorry, David, you've got your hand up.

[0:22:37] Voice 5: Yeah, thank you.

[0:22:38] Voice 5: Just wanted to mention that at the end of your agenda,

[0:22:42] Voice 5: we normally have a work program section.

[0:22:44] Voice 5: And at that point, we would just ask if you can check,

[0:22:48] Voice 5: make sure that we've prioritized the work

[0:22:51] Voice 5: us so by resolution tell us what your top item or top three are um and i think this matrix is great

[0:22:58] Voice 5: for this group and if you want to share it with council you can certainly do so but um we just

[0:23:03] Voice 5: look for some direction at the end of the meeting

[0:23:05] Voice 10: okay thank

[0:23:07] Voice 5: you look

[0:23:09] Voice 10: out russ the whole council

[0:23:10] Voice 10: might want it

[0:23:11] Voice 2: yeah

[0:23:11] Voice 6: oh no it's going to go this is a hot item all

[0:23:15] Voice 10: right so let's um go back to

[0:23:19] Voice 10: the agenda and um work on 7.2 the open and informal meeting um protocols um so this was um

[0:23:35] Voice 10: something that we talked about at the very first meeting and uh there was we got some legal

[0:23:42] Voice 10: opinions and i got some legal opinions from russ and i read through them and he and i had a

[0:23:47] Voice 10: discussion um and i had sent out um a covering letter to the rest of the committee um indicating

[0:23:59] Voice 10: what i thought was the information that was in the ombudsperson report and um that is a public

[0:24:07] Voice 10: document and um i thought that if we wanted to we could talk about that um the larger question

[0:24:17] Voice 10: question it seems to me oh sorry David you've got your hand up uh

[0:24:23] Voice 12: sorry I'll take it down

[0:24:24] Voice 10: okay um

[0:24:25] Voice 10: the larger question is um I guess that communications um if we want to um make any

[0:24:35] Voice 10: changes that's the that's the bottom line and the the underlying question um and whether or not we

[0:24:41] Voice 10: want to get a legal opinion to help support it um so Joe I didn't give you a heads up on this but

[0:24:48] Voice 10: But you had sent an email to me with respect to your thoughts and ideas about whether or not we have legislative license to make these kinds of any informal changes.

[0:25:08] Voice 10: And it seems to me that if we want to get into the weeds, that that would be the legal opinion that we would be looking for.

[0:25:16] Voice 10: um so if i can summarize the letter that i sent around the um um and then joe if you could

[0:25:27] Voice 10: jump in at the end and and maybe give some sort of an idea about the um the legislative

[0:25:33] Voice 10: background um not in great detail that'll put us all to sleep but

[0:25:39] Voice 10: not

[0:25:40] Trustee Bernardo: to mention it would be extremely painful for everybody

[0:25:42] Trustee Bernardo: okay

[0:25:43] Voice 10: so with enormous caution um best practice is definitely uh for a democratically elected

[0:25:52] Voice 10: organization to have open meetings and everything and all the formalities so full notice uh enough

[0:26:01] Voice 10: time for the public to understand what the discussions are going to be and to be able to

[0:26:06] Voice 10: to have time allocated to the public to make comment,

[0:26:11] Voice 10: to have, there should be a quorum.

[0:26:16] Voice 10: There's often an agenda and some discussion

[0:26:21] Voice 10: about the normal business of the committee.

[0:26:24] Voice 10: So those are the three fundamental elements

[0:26:28] Voice 10: of what constitutes a meeting

[0:26:31] Voice 10: and when there should be some notice to the public

[0:26:36] Voice 10: and some involvement of the public um so the ombudsperson's um report says that that's

[0:26:45] Voice 10: highly indicative but it's not the um the main um point one if there's decision making and action

[0:26:54] Voice 10: steps that's where you start to get into um where as a decision-making body it has to be

[0:27:02] Voice 10: part of the community discussion so you cannot vote on anything at an informal meeting

[0:27:10] Voice 10: there possibly could be recommendations but there's one case where the council was sued

[0:27:20] Voice 10: and it was at the leeds grenville county board of education and on ontario court of appeal

[0:27:28] Voice 10: decision vander uh vander reitz i can't pronounce the last name um and what happened was that they

[0:27:36] Voice 10: had a dinner meeting they had a lot of discussion they came to a public uh meeting afterwards and

[0:27:42] Voice 10: and described in great detail um a full description of the process that they went through and the

[0:27:48] Voice 10: information that they shared and the courts allowed it um but it was obviously a long

[0:27:53] Voice 10: difficult process for them in terms of having been through the the litigation

[0:27:59] Voice 10: so the bottom line is that the public must be able to know the basis of

[0:28:03] Voice 10: decisions and be given an opportunity to comment before there is a vote there was

[0:28:10] Voice 10: a sidebar that it's okay to receive information or training but not to make

[0:28:20] Voice 10: be very, very careful about recommendations coming out of it

[0:28:24] Voice 10: and making sure that there's disclosure.

[0:28:27] Voice 10: So I guess the bottom line in terms of that analysis

[0:28:34] Voice 10: is that it's possible, but it's really bad practice.

[0:28:37] Voice 10: And it's like the concept of open courts.

[0:28:40] Voice 10: It has to be an open process so that it's a part of the whole foundation

[0:28:47] Voice 10: of democracy is that everybody gets a chance to have a say.

[0:28:52] Voice 10: So, Joe, you went through all of the founding documents in terms of the Interpretation Act and the Islands Trust Act and the Community Charter.

[0:29:03] Voice 10: And do you want to sum that up?

[0:29:10] Voice 12: Sure. And

[0:29:11] Trustee Bernardo: I'll try to keep it as general and humane as possible here.

[0:29:17] Trustee Bernardo: the general guidance that's out there for one thing I think it's of limited use to us because

[0:29:22] Trustee Bernardo: most of it seems to go for all of it that I've seen so far in so far it's relevant to BC is

[0:29:30] Trustee Bernardo: relates to municipalities and regional districts and that's the jumping off point in the community

[0:29:36] Trustee Bernardo: charter in the local government act it's governing how meetings for those two bodies operate and

[0:29:42] Trustee Bernardo: they're very between the two of them they're pretty specific in terms of the direction that

[0:29:46] Trustee Bernardo: they provide uh but then when you look at the islands trust act the island stress regulation

[0:29:51] Trustee Bernardo: there are sufficient differences i mean they're materially different in terms of structure and

[0:30:00] Trustee Bernardo: We also, through the Islands Trust Act,

[0:30:02] Trustee Bernardo: we incorporate by reference part of the community charter

[0:30:07] Trustee Bernardo: and local government act, I forget which one it is now,

[0:30:10] Trustee Bernardo: even though I went through it in great detail before.

[0:30:12] Trustee Bernardo: The thing is we incorporate by reference

[0:30:14] Trustee Bernardo: the open meeting rule.

[0:30:16] Trustee Bernardo: The question is really under what terms?

[0:30:22] Voice 12: And if you look at how,

[0:30:30] Voice 12: see

[0:30:30] Trustee Bernardo: if I can, without going through all the twists and turns of how the different sections

[0:30:35] Trustee Bernardo: operate, if you look at how the Community Chartered Local Government Act operate, they

[0:30:40] Trustee Bernardo: seem, on my reading, they capture any gathering of councillors or regional district directors

[0:30:48] Trustee Bernardo: where they discuss any type of business, whether there's a decision or not.

[0:30:53] Trustee Bernardo: And that is in keeping with the point that you had made before, Judy, about that's

[0:31:00] Trustee Bernardo: seems to be you know a vote in favor of general democratic transparency but it also expresses a

[0:31:06] Trustee Bernardo: specific intention of the legislature that that's what they want counselors and trustee and regional

[0:31:10] Trustee Bernardo: district directors that's how they want to operate so then we go to the island stress regulation and

[0:31:16] Trustee Bernardo: how it incorporates all that stuff by reference and i think it says it incorporates by reference

[0:31:20] Trustee Bernardo: part three or part four whatever it is of the community charter and that ropes in the open

[0:31:29] Trustee Bernardo: the meeting rule and i think it could um as by way of background to that as an administrative body

[0:31:37] Trustee Bernardo: the islands trust and specifically trust council has some discretion to interpret its own

[0:31:45] Trustee Bernardo: constituting legislation so i believe but don't know an expert would know but i believe we've

[0:31:52] Trustee Bernardo: got some discretion here as a body to decide the scope of the incorporation by reference

[0:32:00] Trustee Bernardo: in the island's trust regulation.

[0:32:04] Trustee Bernardo: And I think that gives us a certain amount of leeway

[0:32:07] Trustee Bernardo: that isn't available to municipalities

[0:32:09] Trustee Bernardo: and to regional districts.

[0:32:12] Trustee Bernardo: And without going into too much detail,

[0:32:15] Trustee Bernardo: if we read the incorporation by reference of part four

[0:32:19] Trustee Bernardo: being we're going to incorporate,

[0:32:23] Trustee Bernardo: if we take that, interpret that to mean

[0:32:25] Trustee Bernardo: that we're going to apply the community charter

[0:32:28] Trustee Bernardo: and the local government act in the same way

[0:32:30] Trustee Bernardo: that it applies to municipal councillors and uh regional district directors uh then we we create

[0:32:38] Trustee Bernardo: a real problem for ourselves because it means that even working groups and informal gatherings

[0:32:42] Trustee Bernardo: of trustees working together really properly speaking if we adopt that interpretation those

[0:32:48] Trustee Bernardo: should be open meetings because that's how it works over at that end personally i don't think

[0:32:55] Trustee Bernardo: that's very practical we are a different organization unlike those other organizations

[0:32:59] Trustee Bernardo: we're a federated structure.

[0:33:01] Trustee Bernardo: We've got a lot of moving parts

[0:33:02] Trustee Bernardo: that actually require us to direct our attention

[0:33:05] Trustee Bernardo: at different levels in different ways

[0:33:07] Trustee Bernardo: than these other local governments do.

[0:33:09] Trustee Bernardo: That's just an argument in favor

[0:33:11] Trustee Bernardo: of having some more discretion here.

[0:33:14] Trustee Bernardo: Or we could actually, I think there,

[0:33:20] Trustee Bernardo: because neither the Islands Trust Act

[0:33:22] Trustee Bernardo: or nor the regulation specifically refer to committees

[0:33:26] Trustee Bernardo: unlike the other acts,

[0:33:31] Trustee Bernardo: the community charter and local government acts.

[0:33:33] Trustee Bernardo: And because there's definitions that are used,

[0:33:38] Trustee Bernardo: well, I'm going to start getting into the weeds here.

[0:33:40] Trustee Bernardo: I better be careful.

[0:33:41] Trustee Bernardo: I think there is leeway to have an interpretation that says

[0:33:46] Trustee Bernardo: the open meeting rule doesn't apply to standing committees

[0:33:51] Trustee Bernardo: and it's a choice.

[0:33:52] Trustee Bernardo: And where I ended up after reviewing all of that material

[0:33:56] Trustee Bernardo: was it's within the direction of this,

[0:33:59] Trustee Bernardo: I believe it's within the discretion of trust council

[0:34:01] Trustee Bernardo: to decide the scope of the application

[0:34:04] Trustee Bernardo: of the open reading rule,

[0:34:05] Trustee Bernardo: whether it wants it to apply to standing committees,

[0:34:13] Trustee Bernardo: or if it doesn't, there's nothing that directly dictates

[0:34:18] Trustee Bernardo: that it has to be.

[0:34:20] Trustee Bernardo: And because, you know,

[0:34:22] Trustee Bernardo: on the rule of statute of interpretation,

[0:34:23] Trustee Bernardo: if it's not specifically directives

[0:34:24] Trustee Bernardo: and you've got to have an interpretive exercise

[0:34:26] Trustee Bernardo: And that's where it falls into the hands of the trust counsel to say, well, in our context, this is how we're going to read it.

[0:34:31] Trustee Bernardo: This is all a long way of saying that I think there is sufficient ambiguity and room for interpretation in what we incorporate by reference that a legal opinion specifically focused on this on that question would be very helpful because, you know, I'm basically articulating an amateur version of that.

[0:34:55] Trustee Bernardo: That's what comes from what I had read.

[0:34:57] Trustee Bernardo: Really, you can't rely on that.

[0:34:59] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, you need to have somebody who really, you know, you need to have a professional opinion by somebody who knows what they're talking about.

[0:35:06] Trustee Bernardo: So that's my point.

[0:35:07] Trustee Bernardo: Anything else?

[0:35:09] Voice 10: Sorry.

[0:35:09] Voice 10: It

[0:35:10] Voice 12: seems to me that

[0:35:11] Voice 10: we've got the option at this point to decide whether or not we want to pursue this

[0:35:20] Voice 10: And whether or not we want to try to move it along in, you know, there's a distinction between the Islands Trust Act describes trust bodies that the open rule applies to, executive committee, local trust committee, trust council, and the conservancy.

[0:35:41] Voice 10: It does not specifically mention committees.

[0:35:44] Voice 10: And so there may be an opening for differences.

[0:35:49] Voice 10: Do we want to pursue this in terms of any interest to have some sort of leeway? We potentially get ourselves into serious trouble and possibly litigation if we open it up, which is not a helpful phrase because open and closed meetings is the distinction.

[0:36:15] Voice 10: But if we let it go slack and give ourselves permission to not follow those rules, whether, you know, and I think the thing, the question came up in the very first meeting where somebody said, what if there's two local trustees and we're meeting with First Nations group and we're talking about the business of trying to figure out how to work together?

[0:36:45] Voice 10: that is by definition um a meeting uh because you've got a quorum of the two local trustees so

[0:36:52] Voice 10: of the um local trust committee so that i think is the the issue do we want to pursue this and

[0:37:00] Voice 10: is it something that we're opening up um or you know do we have clare do we need clarification

[0:37:06] Voice 10: um

[0:37:06] Trustee Bernardo: well if i can if i can respond to that very point uh okay

[0:37:11] Voice 10: stanford's got her hand up first

[0:37:13] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, go ahead.

[0:37:18] Trustee Stamford: I guess I'm sort of pivoting on that.

[0:37:21] Trustee Stamford: Do we want to go down that road?

[0:37:24] Trustee Stamford: And we can look at the statutes, we can look at the acts, but on principle, where do we stand?

[0:37:32] Trustee Stamford: And to me, we are working towards principles of transparency.

[0:37:39] Trustee Stamford: And really, what we'd like to present as part of the overall governance review is a way that the public feels that they are regaining the trust of the Islands Trust.

[0:37:55] Trustee Stamford: And this is one of the ways we can do it, is committing to those principles of open meetings.

[0:38:00] Trustee Stamford: I understand in the wider context that yes, there's occasionally those meetings and we mentioned the First Nations meetings. My understanding that those are meetings, government to government type meetings, where sometimes they're not open to the public, just like when we have meetings with regional districts, we don't always have them open to the public, but they're not, quote unquote, closed.

[0:38:28] Trustee Stamford: but I think in terms of this committee I want to stick to the principles of having open meetings

[0:38:38] Trustee Stamford: so that people are not concerned that we're trying to hide stuff. Trustee Peterson?

[0:38:48] Voice 11: Yeah thank you

[0:38:49] Voice 11: chair I just agree with Trustee Stamford there I think that the space we're in at this time I

[0:38:58] Voice 11: I think it's important, it behooves us to be as transparent as absolutely possible.

[0:39:04] Voice 11: I understand, you know, the government-to-government sphere, that's a little different than our regular business.

[0:39:13] Voice 11: And I would also suggest that there's certainly times where it's appropriate for working groups, you know, to also work outside of the regular open meeting.

[0:39:25] Voice 11: but i i think in terms of our regular process i absolutely agree so if we're going to make any

[0:39:32] Voice 11: recommendations to trust council i think that um that we would really suggest severely limiting

[0:39:39] Voice 11: any any deviation from the open meeting rules christy

[0:39:44] Voice 12: patrick i think it's

[0:39:49] Trustee Patrick: still more information

[0:39:50] Trustee Patrick: would be nice to have you know because we have gosh we'd like to have one more meeting we're

[0:39:55] Trustee Patrick: are hit with well it costs too much or we don't have enough resources or all that stuff so it'd

[0:39:59] Trustee Patrick: be nice to know how much this form of meeting is costing us in terms of resources could we have

[0:40:06] Trustee Patrick: more opportunities to meet and work on things if we weren't um you know using this form to

[0:40:12] Trustee Patrick: you know does this cost us time i guess is the question i i would see that there would always

[0:40:18] Trustee Patrick: be minutes of group meetings determined and that that would be my expectation of

[0:40:24] Trustee Patrick: of that that at a minimum there would always be minutes that would be created but my question

[0:40:29] Trustee Patrick: again is is it are we would we have a more opportunity to meet if if committee meetings

[0:40:37] Trustee Patrick: uh standing committees were not subject

[0:40:40] Voice 12: to that joe and david have your

[0:40:47] Voice 10: you both have your hands

[0:40:48] Voice 10: um can i okay david

[0:40:51] Trustee Bernardo: oh sorry i thought i was going to speak but go ahead oh

[0:40:55] Voice 10: your hand is

[0:40:57] Voice 10: zipping around sorry

[0:40:58] Voice 5: sorry can

[0:41:00] Voice 10: i let's hear david first yeah yeah

[0:41:02] Voice 5: thank you i just wanted uh to just

[0:41:05] Voice 5: make sure you're aware that section 93 of the community charter does apply to all islands trust

[0:41:11] Voice 5: bodies uh council local trust committees section 93 of the charter extends the open meeting rule to

[0:41:18] Voice 5: all um committees of councils as well as boards of variances and other committees so it's it's

[0:41:26] Voice 5: pretty encompassing there and we've always interpreted that to be council committee

[0:41:31] Voice 5: meetings like these meetings so that's why we've always had them and recommend that they be open to

[0:41:36] Voice 5: the public i

[0:41:39] Voice 10: think that the um nuance that joe was raising and the thing that he um the letter

[0:41:45] Voice 10: that he sent me was that section 54 of the islands trust act specifically defines trust bodies

[0:41:50] Voice 10: and the Charter says open meeting applies to all trust bodies.

[0:41:56] Voice 10: It was that tiny distinction, right?

[0:42:01] Voice 10: I'm

[0:42:02] Voice 5: not a lawyer so I wouldn't get into that.

[0:42:04] Voice 5: However, the regulation specifies, it goes beyond trust bodies,

[0:42:09] Voice 5: it specifies the names of the committees.

[0:42:13] Voice 5: It says the section, in this section, trust body means trust council,

[0:42:18] Voice 5: executive committee a local trust committee and the trust fund board so the regulation extends

[0:42:23] Voice 5: the definition of trust body and then section 93 which is which applies goes to all the committees

[0:42:32] Voice 5: of those bodies so again if you want any further on that i'd recommend that you ask for a legal

[0:42:38] Voice 5: opinion and we can certainly get that okay can

[0:42:44] Trustee Bernardo: i pipe in here because it addresses actually the

[0:42:47] Trustee Bernardo: work that i was doing before sorry

[0:42:51] Voice 12: say that again i'm

[0:42:52] Trustee Bernardo: just wondering if i could respond now because

[0:42:54] Trustee Bernardo: dave touched on something uh i i didn't want to get into the weeds of that i'm aware of that

[0:43:00] Trustee Bernardo: that reference in there uh without i mean you have to the way i was operating is you have to

[0:43:08] Trustee Bernardo: go back to community charter and the local government act to see exactly what is it that

[0:43:12] Trustee Bernardo: we're incorporating by reference and i'm aware of that reference to the committee uh business

[0:43:18] Trustee Bernardo: but there's room to interpret that it's not necessarily applying to standing committees.

[0:43:24] Trustee Bernardo: And it's got to do with how committees are interpreted in the parts that are incorporated by reference.

[0:43:31] Trustee Bernardo: So, but David's right. All I think I've discovered is sufficient ambiguity that would require an interpretation.

[0:43:41] Trustee Bernardo: interpretation, but the point I wanted to get to before, Judy, was I'm not comfortable with the

[0:43:48] Trustee Bernardo: idea that we make life easier for ourselves by avoiding the question. If we're going to be

[0:43:57] Trustee Bernardo: principled in how we apply this or how we proceed with these things, and I think this gets actually

[0:44:05] Trustee Bernardo: different interpretations, perhaps, of what the word transparent means. Transparent doesn't

[0:44:09] Trustee Bernardo: necessarily mean that you are showing your reasoning every step of the way in real time

[0:44:14] Trustee Bernardo: to people or to the public. It means absolutely that your process is transparent, that people

[0:44:22] Trustee Bernardo: know how your process works. And as I mentioned before, if you read the incorporation of my

[0:44:30] Trustee Bernardo: reference in an absolutely literal way, then that has to be a choice that we register in a policy

[0:44:38] Trustee Bernardo: and we say that, and if we do that,

[0:44:41] Trustee Bernardo: then it's going to apply to virtually every gathering

[0:44:43] Trustee Bernardo: of trustees where people get together,

[0:44:45] Trustee Bernardo: even not decision-making and two trustees

[0:44:48] Trustee Bernardo: at trust council get together to talk, that's a meeting.

[0:44:53] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, that's the scope of how the community charter

[0:44:56] Trustee Bernardo: and local government act work.

[0:44:57] Trustee Bernardo: They're that rigorous and that rigid.

[0:45:00] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think that's practical in our environment,

[0:45:02] Trustee Bernardo: but if that's the interpretation,

[0:45:05] Trustee Bernardo: like we have to, if we're going to be principled,

[0:45:09] Trustee Bernardo: I think we have to have a policy, like you don't try to skate between unanswered questions and

[0:45:15] Trustee Bernardo: think I've got the leeway because I never bothered to answer the question. I'm just not,

[0:45:18] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think we can do that. That's not principle. We need to have a clear answer

[0:45:22] Trustee Bernardo: what we think we can do, which is partially what we think we ought to be able to do,

[0:45:29] Trustee Bernardo: because we do have that leeway of interpretation. And then we develop a policy that's very balanced,

[0:45:34] Trustee Bernardo: that keeps into account that transparency should generally be the rule. But there are

[0:45:39] Trustee Bernardo: are circumstances, for example, working groups that are just cobbling away, trying to come up

[0:45:43] Trustee Bernardo: with ideas, it's not practical to have those meetings open. And if that's how we're going to

[0:45:49] Trustee Bernardo: operate, then let's just say that. But if we're going to say that, we need a principled basis for

[0:45:53] Trustee Bernardo: it, which is why I favor the idea of getting a legal opinion about giving us basically an opinion

[0:46:00] Trustee Bernardo: that tells us what is the scope of the discretion that we have here to decide how we want to run

[0:46:05] Trustee Bernardo: these meetings and then once we have that we develop a policy where we address these different

[0:46:10] Trustee Bernardo: levels of openness and the circumstances for them and then that's truly transparent so that's kind

[0:46:17] Trustee Bernardo: of what i'm getting thank

[0:46:18] Voice 12: you trustee middleton thank

[0:46:24] Trustee Middleton: you chair yeah i i think um um i'm i'm

[0:46:28] Trustee Middleton: sympathetic to trustee bernardo's argument there because i i do think that uh the subtlety not so

[0:46:35] Trustee Middleton: much in the legal interpretation but naturally in our process was that we were feeling somewhat

[0:46:41] Trustee Middleton: bound by the fact that our business or our how we got to business decisions was very uh formally

[0:46:48] Trustee Middleton: laid out as in in order to have a discussion item it had to be on an agenda that's approved and

[0:46:54] Trustee Middleton: and and advanced in terms of uh awarded through robert's rules as a motion and the question

[0:47:01] Trustee Middleton: question was either found in favor or not and I think that some of the discussion we had if

[0:47:06] Trustee Middleton: I remember correctly was that um that was somewhat constraining to the free flow of ideas and sort

[0:47:12] Trustee Middleton: of generating a way forward that then would be uh enshrined in normal business by motion and so I

[0:47:19] Trustee Middleton: think um from what I'm hearing and I could be mistaken and maybe trustee Bernardo would differ

[0:47:26] Trustee Middleton: for in order for that to happen that's perhaps alternative way of discussing issues before we

[0:47:32] Trustee Middleton: get to making business decisions on them in order for that to happen we have to first address this

[0:47:38] Trustee Middleton: question of the of the applicability of the open meeting rule i'm not sure if that's mutually

[0:47:43] Trustee Middleton: exclusive or not but that's my understanding of trustee bernardo's argument and and i think it

[0:47:48] Trustee Middleton: makes perfect sense to get an opinion on that i think that would be very useful to us um thank you

[0:47:54] Trustee Middleton: Steve.

[0:47:57] Voice 2: Steve Hudson-Tiller. Thank you. So lots,

[0:48:01] Voice 6: lots to say and, but I won't say it.

[0:48:04] Voice 6: Just try and, I'll just give you an organizational perspective. So this is not the first time this

[0:48:12] Voice 6: conversation has occurred. This has occurred over time. The organization has matured or

[0:48:19] Voice 6: immatured, depending upon your perspective on this, to this point. We've accepted and we have

[0:48:25] Voice 6: in policy and we've interpreted the community charter to include council committees this is

[0:48:31] Voice 6: a reinvestigation which is your right of that policy so we've actually put policy we do have

[0:48:38] Voice 6: internal policy in place that reflect this previous conversation and we do have administrative

[0:48:44] Voice 6: processes in place so we're not bereft of a policy perspective associated with this just want to make

[0:48:51] Voice 6: that clear for everybody involved um and so that's the first consideration the second consideration

[0:48:59] Voice 6: is when you're meeting with other entities if it's if it's not your meeting you can meet with

[0:49:05] Voice 6: the first nation or another government or off-site or something like that if you're not hosting a

[0:49:10] Voice 6: meeting um i would suggest that the taking of minutes does suggest a meeting so you would not

[0:49:18] Voice 6: not if you are having informal meetings be taking minutes because by almost by definition that is

[0:49:23] Voice 6: one of the categories by which you indicate this this needs to be recorded for some reason

[0:49:29] Voice 6: and that usually is leading to either presenting to the public what has been said so you're starting

[0:49:36] Voice 6: to beg the question itself why wouldn't they be there if we're recording all the information for

[0:49:40] Voice 6: them or you're building to a decision-making moment at some point um so just uh making those

[0:49:48] Voice 6: uh two or three points for you as you consider this and then the other great thing would be just

[0:49:53] Voice 6: an expression of what would be the best what would be the best expression of some freedom around here

[0:50:01] Voice 6: like what is the essence of the package that would be best uh and then if that was narrowed in some

[0:50:11] Voice 6: way as opposed to the more broad legal can we or can't we how about like or at least um an

[0:50:20] Voice 6: explanation or clarification around specifically what would be the desired scenario might lead

[0:50:29] Voice 6: you to seeing whether that's of enough value to go through the effort to find it

[0:50:34] Voice 12: thank you

[0:50:35] Voice 12: madam chair um i've got a question for the cao okay uh

[0:50:45] Trustee Bernardo: it it's fair comment by the way arrest

[0:50:49] Trustee Bernardo: to observe that we actually do have a policy out there now you know and we're governed by that

[0:50:54] Trustee Bernardo: that's fair enough we're not operating in a vacuum um my dilemma here is the way i read this material

[0:51:03] Trustee Bernardo: is if we take that position the way i read the local government act of the community charter

[0:51:10] Trustee Bernardo: is that then that we ought to be applying the open meet we um if we believe that it applies

[0:51:16] Trustee Bernardo: to our committees therefore we necessarily have to believe it also applies to these informal

[0:51:21] Trustee Bernardo: gatherings and to me well that i've already mentioned that's problematic so the question

[0:51:28] Trustee Bernardo: is this the distinctions that you were drawing before about you know and it's fair enough

[0:51:34] Trustee Bernardo: actually to say like let's figure out what we actually would like to be able to do and then

[0:51:38] Trustee Bernardo: find out if that's available to us rather than asking the question in a very vague way

[0:51:43] Trustee Bernardo: but the distinctions that you were drawing um are is there a basis for them written in the policy

[0:51:52] Trustee Bernardo: now or is this just a practice like we say it applies to committee meetings but do we say it

[0:51:59] Trustee Bernardo: It doesn't apply to working group meetings and that

[0:52:03] Voice 2: kind of thing.

[0:52:03] Voice 2: No, you know, it's a great point.

[0:52:06] Voice 6: We're not as explicit as your question is being asked.

[0:52:10] Voice 6: It hasn't come up as a thing to be explicit about necessarily.

[0:52:18] Voice 6: Certainly, just stepping back from this for a second, the whole notion that we will engage more with First Nations on a variety of levels is a thing.

[0:52:26] Voice 6: um meaning how do those conversations occur can you take a full quorum of a local trust committee

[0:52:34] Voice 6: um and take them to a meeting with the nation um can um conversations that normally would not be

[0:52:43] Voice 6: closed but the nation wants to have them closed um you know how how do we deal with factors like

[0:52:50] Voice 6: that we we don't have all those answers and i don't even think the legislature at this point

[0:52:54] Voice 6: has them there is some activism around looking at that specific issue from a community charter

[0:52:59] Voice 6: perspective as i understand it and i don't think bc's there yet they know it's an issue

[0:53:04] Voice 6: um so i think you're quite right we've got like three quarters of this nailed down

[0:53:09] Voice 6: and there's a quarter underneath it when two trustees bump into each other at a coffee shop

[0:53:15] Voice 6: that i don't have a policy answer for when they um you know something might come up or

[0:53:21] Voice 6: Or they call each other to talk about, hey, should we organize the CIM for next week or the week after?

[0:53:27] Voice 6: And then they kind of roll into, you know, what should be on the agenda, which becomes more of a content-based conversation.

[0:53:35] Voice 6: We don't have policy for that.

[0:53:37] Voice 6: It's being culture-based.

[0:53:40] Voice 6: We have mainly the policy.

[0:53:42] Voice 6: We do try and keep the trustees away from each other from just on a casual basis.

[0:53:49] Voice 6: but yeah we don't have that that finite fine detail that organizes all our behaviors now

[0:53:55] Voice 6: David's probably closer to this than I am maybe he can fill in some blanks but that's I think

[0:53:59] Voice 6: that's an answer to your question and

[0:54:03] Voice 5: if I made through the chair yeah I just wanted to agree

[0:54:06] Voice 5: with the CEO they don't go to those deep details about a couple of trustees getting together what

[0:54:13] Voice 5: i will say is that bylaw 101 which is trust council's meeting procedure bylaw does apply

[0:54:21] Voice 5: to all council committees so that is stated in that bylaw so the way we've interpreted that is

[0:54:27] Voice 5: any quorum of a council committee or a council or an executive committee would have to meet the the

[0:54:35] Voice 5: bylaw that is the open meeting or close for the reasons in the community charter every local trust

[0:54:41] Voice 5: trust committee has its own meeting procedure by-law and that by-law also for each local trust

[0:54:47] Voice 5: committee makes those meeting procedure by-laws apply to subgroups of the committee that they've

[0:54:54] Voice 5: made so advisory planning commissions things like that are included and the advisory planning

[0:54:59] Voice 5: commission has its own by-law that deals with their meetings so it's all done by council by-law

[0:55:05] Voice 5: And again, if it's a quorum,

[0:55:07] Voice 5: then it's considered to be a meeting.

[0:55:10] Voice 5: If it's advancing the substantive business

[0:55:13] Voice 5: of the committee, that is the work

[0:55:16] Voice 5: that you're designed to do.

[0:55:19] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[0:55:20] Voice 10: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:55:22] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, I've got a suggestion here,

[0:55:24] Trustee Bernardo: which is the, this is,

[0:55:25] Trustee Bernardo: I think it's been a useful discussion up to this point,

[0:55:29] Trustee Bernardo: but I think we have to be disciplined ourselves

[0:55:32] Trustee Bernardo: in terms of recognizing how far we can get

[0:55:34] Trustee Bernardo: in any one meeting about these things.

[0:55:37] Trustee Bernardo: CEO's point about being very specific. If we do seek a legal opinion, we need to be pretty

[0:55:42] Trustee Bernardo: specific about what is it we're trying to achieve. I'm wondering whether or not it's a good idea for

[0:55:51] Trustee Bernardo: us to, what I have in mind is perhaps the chair, Russ, and myself working offline and then bringing

[0:56:00] Trustee Bernardo: back to the next meeting a potential question. That doesn't necessarily prejudge whether we'll

[0:56:07] Trustee Bernardo: will get a legal opinion at all,

[0:56:09] Trustee Bernardo: but just to sort of make the discussion

[0:56:12] Trustee Bernardo: a bit more disciplined to say, okay,

[0:56:15] Trustee Bernardo: this, if we got an opinion,

[0:56:18] Trustee Bernardo: this is what it should look like.

[0:56:20] Trustee Bernardo: This is the thing that we're looking for.

[0:56:22] Trustee Bernardo: This is a specific question that we're going to ask.

[0:56:25] Trustee Bernardo: And then the rest of the committee can say,

[0:56:26] Trustee Bernardo: yeah, well, we think it's worth doing,

[0:56:29] Trustee Bernardo: or they can say, no, we don't think it's worth doing.

[0:56:31] Trustee Bernardo: And that would just sharpen up the debate.

[0:56:34] Trustee Bernardo: I don't know if that idea is helpful at all.

[0:56:37] Voice 10: Trustee Stamford?

[0:56:40] Trustee Stamford: I think it's working on the question.

[0:56:44] Trustee Stamford: And like we've stated before, it's not the first time this question has come up.

[0:56:47] Trustee Stamford: But in the meantime, does this mean that we're not going to do working groups?

[0:56:52] Trustee Stamford: That we're not going to, a couple of us meet and work on a specific question to present as a recommendation to the group?

[0:57:00] Trustee Stamford: Like, I feel like we keep moving along slower and slower and getting bogged down in in legal minutia when I really want to be able to start working on something.

[0:57:14] Trustee Stamford: And I

[0:57:16] Trustee Bernardo: can't. Let me answer that concern right away.

[0:57:19] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think I don't think there's a reason to to change the status quo.

[0:57:23] Trustee Bernardo: Well, we're just discussing how to better structure the arrangement and also to have rules.

[0:57:30] Trustee Bernardo: I appreciate your point about legal minutiae. We do not want to get bogged down in that.

[0:57:34] Trustee Bernardo: But it is also important for the purposes of transparency to make sure the way we rule ourselves is absolutely clear.

[0:57:42] Trustee Bernardo: So pending us getting to that point, we haven't done anything.

[0:57:46] Trustee Bernardo: Trust Council hasn't done anything to change the policy or to change the norms and the operating procedures.

[0:57:53] Trustee Bernardo: and we have no reason to be afraid to keep doing what we're doing so i just want to emphasize

[0:57:59] Trustee Bernardo: uh no we don't have to change anything at this point we're trying to figure out

[0:58:04] Trustee Bernardo: how much freedom we have to change if we want in the future that's all we're at at this point well

[0:58:10] Trustee Stamford: and and so in the end then um reading all these other legal opinions we've been looking at

[0:58:17] Trustee Stamford: not the opinions tend to hedge their bets and and and i i'm not getting really clear

[0:58:25] Trustee Stamford: direction and um because there's always room for interpretation so i mean yeah it it could be

[0:58:33] Trustee Stamford: useful but in the end i find that they're quite like oh well if it's this if it's that we might

[0:58:39] Trustee Stamford: end up right back at square one again but anyway um you know i don't want to belabor this and um

[0:58:46] Trustee Stamford: I just want to get on with the work of the committee.

[0:58:50] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson.

[0:58:53] Voice 11: Yeah, thank you.

[0:58:54] Voice 11: So as far as working groups, what I believe I just heard Director Marler say is that if those working groups were a sub quorum of a committee, then that could proceed.

[0:59:07] Voice 11: And if I'm wrong, I'd love to know.

[0:59:10] Voice 11: But that's what I thought I just heard.

[0:59:11] Voice 13: Yeah.

[0:59:12] Voice 2: I think we're good there.

[0:59:14] Voice 2: We're good.

[0:59:17] Voice 2: Subgroups away.

[0:59:17] Voice 11: way

[0:59:17] Voice 2: because

[0:59:18] Voice 11: i i think that that gives us uh some flexibility to do the kind of work even what the

[0:59:23] Voice 11: trustee perdardo just proposed doing on this very question uh of a couple couple members of the

[0:59:29] Voice 11: committee as long as we're not quorum so that's i think that's very helpful information as far

[0:59:34] Voice 11: as going ahead with some working groups and and that's

[0:59:38] Trustee Bernardo: all fair enough but just to be clear that's

[0:59:40] Trustee Bernardo: all predicated on the bylaw where the bylaws whether you know like the foundation of the bylaw

[0:59:47] Trustee Bernardo: that's that's what we're really talking about like is the bylaw unduly restrictive or not that's the

[0:59:53] Trustee Bernardo: question all

[0:59:54] Voice 10: right so the definition of a meeting is starts with quorum and uh you know

[1:00:00] Voice 10: That was the question that came up in terms of if we wanted to have a subcommittee that faced that problem in terms of four people instead of three, something like that,

[1:00:14] Voice 10: then what are the guardrails and how do we do it?

[1:00:23] Voice 10: Is that a definition of a working group?

[1:00:25] Voice 10: And if there is, you know, that's the one quarter that Russ is talking about in terms of fine tuning those exceptions. So I guess what we need to do at some point is identify specific problems that we've run up against in terms of working groups and whether or not we do want to fine tune it and get into asking for a legal opinion on those one quarter of the kinds of examples that come up.

[1:00:55] Voice 10: Tracey Middleton your hand is up thank

[1:00:58] Trustee Middleton: you chair excuse me um yeah just a quick question on

[1:01:02] Trustee Middleton: are we feeling constrained not only or perhaps not only but are we feeling constrained by one

[1:01:09] Trustee Middleton: of the details in um I think it's bylaw 101 the meeting procedures bylaw which is the requirement

[1:01:15] Trustee Middleton: to utilize Robert's rules to conduct um the business Affairs of the meeting is there a

[1:01:21] Trustee Middleton: a possibility to vary the bylaws applicability to some groups? And that might not be an open

[1:01:30] Trustee Middleton: or closed meeting question. That might be, what is the method by which business is governed? And

[1:01:35] Trustee Middleton: can that be varied? Because I believe that has been referenced as an ongoing issue that people

[1:01:40] Trustee Middleton: feel constrained by the application of robust rules to all of our group dealings. Thank you.

[1:01:47] Voice 12: all right so we've spent a half an

[1:01:53] Voice 10: hour on this and um we are a little further ahead certainly

[1:01:57] Voice 10: in terms of understanding um i'm going to close down the discussion but what do you want to do

[1:02:03] Voice 10: with this do we go to council and explain we've had the discussion um do we uh joe and and uh

[1:02:12] Voice 10: russ and i um come up with a possible um question for a legal opinion for further discussion um

[1:02:20] Voice 10: um so one thumb go up thanks very much um what do

[1:02:27] Trustee Bernardo: you want to do we've really got nothing to

[1:02:29] Trustee Bernardo: report to the trust council we've just had a discussion

[1:02:31] Voice 10: we've worked on it and we've you know

[1:02:33] Voice 10: had this background i think we can that's so madam

[1:02:38] Voice 2: chair if i may i if you go that route

[1:02:40] Voice 6: uh well at some point um emotion emotion for for some next activity just emotion that

[1:02:50] Voice 6: But whether it be the three of us work on that or something would be helpful, which is fine.

[1:02:58] Trustee Bernardo: Good. Thank you for the suggestion. I have a motion.

[1:03:02] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, go ahead.

[1:03:03] Trustee Bernardo: The motion is that the Chair, Trustee Bernardo, and CAO Hudson-Peller report back to the next meeting.

[1:03:13] Trustee Bernardo: or sorry I guess the language we are asked to report back to the next meeting of governance

[1:03:17] Trustee Bernardo: committee with a draft question for legal counsel for review

[1:03:27] Voice 12: by the for review by the governance

[1:03:28] Voice 12: committee all right any seconders

[1:03:35] Voice 5: uh sorry if I made a check could you just make the resolution

[1:03:39] Voice 5: stand alone and just state the topic of the um the legal review so on open meetings or

[1:03:47] Voice 5: something like that otherwise it we won't

[1:03:49] Trustee Bernardo: know what it

[1:03:50] Voice 5: is yes

[1:03:50] Trustee Bernardo: uh that um working groups

[1:03:55] Trustee Bernardo: informal working yes that that chair getty trustee bernardo and ceo hudson peller

[1:04:00] Trustee Bernardo: let's see uh okay thank you the request of the chair trustee bernardo and ceo are asked to

[1:04:06] Trustee Bernardo: uh draft question for legal counsel um uh

[1:04:12] Voice 12: regarding the scope of application

[1:04:21] Voice 12: of the open meeting rule to Island's Trust meetings

[1:04:46] Voice 12: for consideration

[1:04:47] Voice 12: by

[1:04:48] Trustee Bernardo: the Governance Committee.

[1:04:49] Trustee Bernardo: Does that work?

[1:04:52] Voice 12: Yeah, thank you.

[1:04:53] Voice 12: It just gives us a topic so we know what we're doing.

[1:04:55] Voice 12: Thank you.

[1:05:07] Voice 12: Satisfied with the motion?

[1:05:09] Voice 12: Yeah, I am.

[1:05:14] Voice 12: Any seconder, amendments?

[1:05:17] Voice 12: Trustee Harris?

[1:05:20] Voice 12: I second the motion.

[1:05:24] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:05:25] Voice 12: Discussion?

[1:05:38] Voice 12: All right.

[1:05:38] Voice 12: not seeing any hand raised um all those in favor there's a bunch of hands all right any opposed

[1:05:54] Voice 12: oops all right it's carried all right play with that some more

[1:06:04] Voice 10: um so next on the agenda is the

[1:06:10] Voice 10: section uh seven six uh section three mandate so um i thought one of the things that's helpful on

[1:06:22] Voice 10: on this was to look at the terms of reference

[1:06:28] Voice 10: of the governance committee.

[1:06:29] Voice 10: So September 20th, 22 terms of reference were policy 2.3.5

[1:06:37] Voice 10: to review and report and prioritize a list

[1:06:40] Voice 10: of recommendations, evaluate and provide advice

[1:06:42] Voice 10: to the trust council reconcerns best practice

[1:06:45] Voice 10: appropriate structure and procedure, develop a work program

[1:06:48] Voice 10: and quarterly updates to trust council,

[1:06:50] Voice 10: recommend legislative reforms and may contract outside expertise subject to the budget.

[1:06:57] Voice 10: I went back and looked at the report by the governance committee and on page or the review

[1:07:03] Voice 10: rather and on page 19 and 20 there was reference to an absence of effective efforts to overcome

[1:07:15] Voice 10: come to vision through dialogue compromise and accommodation was the words used were dysfunction

[1:07:20] Voice 10: difference of opinions and vigorous debate concerning the scope of activities and power

[1:07:25] Voice 10: of a federation it was good but the failure to resolve an enduring negative effect on effective

[1:07:32] Voice 10: operations an absence of shared understanding of the object section three and the absence of

[1:07:39] Voice 10: mechanisms and opportunities to collectively pursue dialogue to reach consensus review the

[1:07:45] Voice 10: the decision-making machinery structure of mandated committees needs clarification.

[1:07:50] Voice 10: There was a division on preserve and protect object, been unchanged in 50 years. A lack of

[1:07:57] Voice 10: consensus regarding a meaning and action is a fundamental existential challenge. Differences

[1:08:03] Voice 10: in strategies and priorities common, but need to foster consensus and thorough processing that's

[1:08:09] Voice 10: fair and inclusive. Here, the fundamental question regarding policy directions is near intractable.

[1:08:15] Voice 10: decline in collegiality strategic direction policy initiatives cost and value for money

[1:08:21] Voice 10: efficiency of operations taxation levels advocacy accountability performance measures first

[1:08:27] Voice 10: challenge is to how to interpret preserve and protect is the islands trust environmental

[1:08:32] Voice 10: steward with land use regulatory powers or land use regulatory regulator with concern for

[1:08:38] Voice 10: environmental stewardship so that was a very quick review of the context um i think we're in a

[1:08:53] Voice 10: situation i'm well i'm new to the trust i've followed the trust for many many many years but

[1:08:59] Voice 10: this is my first um election to it so i don't feel that uh i don't know enough about what the

[1:09:08] Voice 10: the dysfunction was, I don't feel the same lack of collegiality, certainly. So I'm not sure that

[1:09:17] Voice 10: we're necessarily in the same situation. But I recognize that if we don't have some sort of a

[1:09:24] Voice 10: discussion about Section 3, that's going to hamper us in terms of getting into, whenever we do,

[1:09:32] Voice 10: all of the background and the details of the policy statement. So I think it's an

[1:09:37] Voice 10: an important um discussion that we help the trust council with that's maybe one of our

[1:09:47] Voice 10: terms of reference and that we figure out how to best do that um and we're potentially opening up

[1:09:55] Voice 10: such a can of worms it's whether or not we're going to be able to wrangle this one uh effectively

[1:10:02] Voice 10: and if so how so um some of you that have been on council longer um is that dysfunction

[1:10:15] Voice 10: collegiality issue um still festering trustee patrick gosh

[1:10:24] Trustee Patrick: i hope not but um

[1:10:26] Trustee Patrick: i i don't want to spend a lot of time recapping and i know i see uh

[1:10:31] Trustee Patrick: trustee Stanford has her hand up. We had some excellent conversations last term about

[1:10:39] Trustee Patrick: section three in a constructive and useful manner, but there was at least one trustee who

[1:10:45] Trustee Patrick: was not going to have his mind changed regardless of any conversation that was held. So it was

[1:10:53] Trustee Patrick: continually brought back up. It was one of those, we didn't show the discipline of ending a

[1:10:58] Trustee Patrick: conversation and carrying on. And I feel there's a will in this term that, and I think we're

[1:11:06] Trustee Patrick: displaying that in this committee. We have a conversation, we make a decision, we move forward

[1:11:10] Trustee Patrick: on something. And I think we make it clear. And I think Trustee Bernardo did that in his role of

[1:11:16] Trustee Patrick: the Financial Planning Committee as well, saying, as a committee, we worked through this and

[1:11:19] Trustee Patrick: presented this budget. And we're standing behind what we're presenting to you. And I think there's

[1:11:28] Trustee Patrick: of will and a desire to show more discipline and not you know not have one or two people just

[1:11:33] Trustee Patrick: undermine the work of a group and I'm feeling that's there but that said I'm on the working

[1:11:40] Trustee Patrick: group for the corporate plan and if there is any doubt if we still if there is that doubt existing

[1:11:46] Trustee Patrick: on section three then that is undermining automatically what we're trying to do to go

[1:11:52] Trustee Patrick: forward. So there is a benefit, I think, you know, to make a decision, make it clear, and move

[1:11:59] Trustee Patrick: forward. And I know we're going to be doing that with the Regional Planning Committee. We're going

[1:12:02] Trustee Patrick: to talk about that right off the bat, Section 3, saying this is our interpretation as we're moving

[1:12:07] Trustee Patrick: forward on the conversation. We're not circling back having 16 different decisions, or I'm sorry,

[1:12:12] Trustee Patrick: we're not a quorum, less than 12. You know, we make that clear. And I think Trust Council needs

[1:12:18] Trustee Patrick: needs to

[1:12:19] Voice 12: do the same trustee stanford yeah i don't

[1:12:28] Trustee Stamford: really want to go over the the details because i

[1:12:31] Trustee Stamford: i do feel that there is a different um um sense in the in the trust council this term and a real

[1:12:41] Trustee Stamford: striving to try and come to um a sense of all working together in one direction i'm not sure

[1:12:49] Trustee Stamford: if that's going to be successful it still could fall into factions like it did last term um but

[1:12:56] Trustee Stamford: one of the things that we really we haven't dealt with is that there's a couple of trigger points

[1:13:01] Trustee Stamford: where we'll really see that and it does come up when we're talking about the um the the draft

[1:13:08] Trustee Stamford: corporate plan the briefing for it is um talking about the vision as soon as you get that vision

[1:13:15] Trustee Stamford: out there, then everyone becomes an editor, everyone has a different vision, and you can

[1:13:20] Trustee Stamford: see it start to fall apart. And then following that becomes the policy statement, which is so

[1:13:27] Trustee Stamford: important. And personally, I was really struggling with the idea that we still don't see it till the

[1:13:33] Trustee Stamford: end of the term, in best case scenario, because I think that is stalling our ability to move

[1:13:40] Trustee Stamford: forward as an organization. And until we nail down our common goal, our common vision, we are

[1:13:48] Trustee Stamford: going to continue to struggle with push and pull with the same problems that the governance report

[1:13:58] Trustee Stamford: outlined. I think it will start to fall in that direction. So I'm really hoping that we can get

[1:14:05] Trustee Stamford: beyond that and and really nail down what our vision is so that we can get

[1:14:12] Voice 12: trustee peterson

[1:14:14] Voice 12: yeah

[1:14:18] Voice 11: thank you chair um my sense is that in terms of collegiality uh indeed things are are improved

[1:14:26] Voice 11: in this new um this new term this new council um but i think trustee stamford is is correct that

[1:14:34] Voice 11: that when we get into these fundamental questions,

[1:14:37] Voice 11: which I think need to be addressed

[1:14:41] Voice 11: in the proposed process to work towards corporate planning,

[1:14:48] Voice 11: that if we don't strike upon some general consensus

[1:14:54] Voice 11: around the object and the interpretation of that,

[1:14:58] Voice 11: then we are gonna be back in the weeds.

[1:14:59] Voice 11: And I hope that's not where we end up,

[1:15:02] Voice 11: But it is fundamental, I think, to these, you know, to setting out this new corporate plan, to have that vision, to have that common understanding.

[1:15:12] Voice 11: So my two cents, that's not terribly helpful, I understand, but hopefully that's where we get to as agreed.

[1:15:24] Voice 12: Thanks. Trustee Middleton.

[1:15:27] Voice 12: Thank you, Chair.

[1:15:28] Trustee Middleton: Chair,

[1:15:28] Voice 12: I

[1:15:29] Trustee Middleton: think the statements you read out, Chair, are very apt, and I think were a very

[1:15:38] Trustee Middleton: key moment in that report, because I think what we're faced with was basically a binary value

[1:15:48] Trustee Middleton: statement in the preserve and protect mandate that some people interpret the primacy of the

[1:15:54] Trustee Middleton: environment as the job of a trustee others interpret the primacy of the unique amenity

[1:16:00] Trustee Middleton: of the human community on the gulf islands and without an ability to talk across those two values

[1:16:07] Trustee Middleton: that's where we and i'm not proposing who is right or who is wrong i just know that that's

[1:16:14] Trustee Middleton: how the conversations go they they they become polarized are around that binary statement and

[1:16:21] Trustee Middleton: And what I think the governance report talks about is we need better tools to be able to have that conversation about difference of values.

[1:16:32] Trustee Middleton: We will get there when, as I think Trustee Stanford said, when we talk about the policy statement, that's where you will see this binary emerge.

[1:16:41] Trustee Middleton: And so I think that is our mandate, is to try to equip council or ourselves, then council, with a way of working through those conversations in a way that is more productive.

[1:16:55] Trustee Middleton: Now, does that mean we have different measures of what our success is?

[1:16:59] Trustee Middleton: Does it come back to the corporate plan?

[1:17:01] Trustee Middleton: I'm not, I mean, to a degree, yes, it probably does.

[1:17:03] Trustee Middleton: The consultants talk about success markers or measures of success, and they reference the need to identify carrying capacity to be able to determine what does preservation look like and what does preservation of a healthy community and an ecosystem look like.

[1:17:23] Trustee Middleton: These are the essence of the organization, of course, and these are big topics, but I think it's a conversation very well worth having.

[1:17:31] Trustee Middleton: having how do we move on from this I guess I'm just putting this as a placeholder from what I've

[1:17:35] Trustee Middleton: seen from the last um uh two terms um are there ways we can deal with this in a more shall we say

[1:17:44] Trustee Middleton: uh collegial fashion yeah I I I'm sure there are but I think that's our job is to actually try to

[1:17:50] Trustee Middleton: provide those tools to Council to be able to have these conversations when we start to come back

[1:17:55] Trustee Middleton: into things like um you know tree cutting and other ecosystem measures that we're going to

[1:18:01] Trustee Middleton: to be hearing about as markers of, shall we say, ecosystem collapse or otherwise. And I know that's

[1:18:10] Trustee Middleton: a contentious point, but that's a point that is being presented to us fairly often as Trust

[1:18:14] Trustee Middleton: Council and Town Halls. So how do we deal with that? How do we work through and move forward

[1:18:20] Trustee Middleton: in a way where we can find, shall we say, a working consensus between preservation of

[1:18:30] Trustee Middleton: viable communities and preservation of a viable ecosystem thank you thank

[1:18:37] Voice 12: you trustee harris

[1:18:44] Voice 12: you're muted thank you thank you so i

[1:18:54] Voice 3: was really encouraged when i i read um the um legal opinion

[1:19:01] Voice 3: whoa sent out

[1:19:03] Trustee Stamford: let's

[1:19:06] Trustee Bernardo: not talk about the legal opinion unless uh well

[1:19:11] Voice 3: that's a separate issue

[1:19:12] Voice 3: but whoever maybe we ought to go in a camera then uh if we're in a

[1:19:19] Trustee Bernardo: chair um we have uh trustee

[1:19:25] Trustee Bernardo: harris is about to talk about here about the legal opinion so perhaps we should go into in camera at

[1:19:31] Trustee Bernardo: this juncture uh you're muted chair i

[1:19:37] Voice 10: got distracted because i've got a telephone ringing

[1:19:39] Voice 10: and i can't find the receiver to turn it off um so um sorry trustee harris um you're talking about

[1:19:47] Voice 10: um you were encouraged when you read the some of the legal reports yes

[1:19:52] Voice 3: okay maybe

[1:19:54] Voice 3: possibly

[1:19:55] Voice 3: mr burrard was correct we have to go on camera i i i

[1:19:58] Trustee Bernardo: understand from previously from mr marler that

[1:20:03] Trustee Bernardo: uh he had a resolution or a motion to put us in camera if we needed it perhaps you could um

[1:20:10] Trustee Bernardo: have that put forward now i would like to see the language so i could just move that and then

[1:20:14] Trustee Bernardo: we could move on with this yeah

[1:20:16] Voice 5: I've made through chair Laurie do you have the standard in camera

[1:20:20] Voice 5: resolution available or do you want me just to put

[1:20:23] Voice 12: something up there we go thank you well that

[1:20:33] Trustee Bernardo: language seems to capture it we are talking about something that's privileged so uh I'd move uh

[1:20:40] Trustee Bernardo: along the lines as I guess I should just read it I just moved that the committee closed this

[1:20:44] Trustee Bernardo: meeting to the public subject to section 90 sub 1 sub i of the community charter in order to

[1:20:51] Trustee Bernardo: to consider matters related to receipt of advice

[1:20:53] Trustee Bernardo: that is subject to solicitor-client privilege

[1:20:55] Trustee Bernardo: and the staff be invited to remain in the meeting.

[1:20:59] Voice 12: Seconder?

[1:21:02] Voice 12: Trustee Middleton?

[1:21:04] Voice 12: Any opposed?

[1:21:08] Voice 12: Trick

[1:21:08] Voice 10: question, sorry.

[1:21:09] Voice 10: All right, then I'll take it as unanimous.

[1:21:15] Voice 10: Now, before we go into closed,

[1:21:18] Voice 10: let's say, let's try to limit our conversation

[1:21:21] Voice 10: to maybe 15, 20 minutes so that if necessary,

[1:21:26] Voice 10: people can that are if there's still members of the public that are watching they can come back

[1:21:34] Voice 10: okay

[1:21:34] Voice 1: if the attendee would

[1:21:35] Voice 1: like to leave so that i don't thank you very much i'm going to stop

[1:21:38] Voice 1: recording stop live streaming and i'll let you know when i've locked the meeting one moment please

[1:21:42] Voice 1: thank

[1:21:43] Voice 12: you for

[1:21:52] Voice 10: the members of the public uh we've just come out of a closed meeting

[1:21:56] Voice 10: talking about um some legal opinions that um were provided and um taken a short break

[1:22:04] Voice 10: and as soon as the trustees are back we'll start our open meeting again we have a quorum here now

[1:22:42] Voice 10: in terms of next steps I'm going to start we've got two trustees still in the wings but

[1:23:06] Voice 10: I think our options at this point are to try to do some work in terms of plain language of some

[1:23:16] Voice 10: of these um legal opinions that we've received so that we can share that with um trust counsel

[1:23:24] Voice 10: and each other particularly in preparation for what i think is going to be um the discussions

[1:23:31] Voice 10: about from the financial planning committee at our next meeting um so i'm not sure whether we um

[1:23:41] Voice 10: table the discussions until that meeting

[1:23:44] Voice 10: and just pick them up and continue then

[1:23:47] Voice 10: with possibly some homework done by myself.

[1:23:55] Voice 10: I can volunteer, Trustee Bernardo perhaps,

[1:23:58] Voice 10: and maybe get a little bit of time

[1:24:01] Voice 10: from CAO Watson-Piller or Mr. Marler.

[1:24:06] Voice 10: If we come up with a rough draft and get it over,

[1:24:10] Voice 10: have you check it over?

[1:24:12] Voice 6: Well, we can write a report.

[1:24:15] Voice 6: Like, do you want to summarize that and we present it back to you in a report?

[1:24:20] Voice 6: Like, that's an option as well.

[1:24:22] Voice 6: That's a more traditional approach.

[1:24:23] Voice 6: Or do you want to...

[1:24:26] Voice 6: God, staff that

[1:24:28] Voice 10: do work for us.

[1:24:28] Voice 10: Well,

[1:24:29] Voice 6: I just offer, whenever it's appropriate, whether you do some summary information and provide it,

[1:24:37] Voice 6: and then we can forward it as a trustee rfd not an rfd but you know it can be your authorship but

[1:24:43] Voice 6: we can go through and collate information for you as opposed to going around the circle or you can

[1:24:48] Voice 6: do it whatever way you you see fit but uh i just offer that

[1:24:52] Voice 10: trustee harris thank

[1:24:58] Voice 3: you yeah i'm

[1:24:58] Voice 3: somewhat leery of having stafford report at this point on this to me the um the the the document

[1:25:08] Voice 3: is pretty straightforward.

[1:25:12] Voice 3: You know, I would love to see us

[1:25:15] Voice 3: possibly refine it to a degree

[1:25:18] Voice 3: and then us as a committee re-look at that next meeting

[1:25:23] Voice 3: and then decide where to go from there.

[1:25:25] Voice 3: I'll leave it at that for now, thanks.

[1:25:27] Voice 3: Trustee Bernardo, you're muted.

[1:25:35] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you, sorry about that.

[1:25:37] Trustee Bernardo: I appreciate the offer from staff,

[1:25:39] Trustee Bernardo: but the reality is translating a legal opinion

[1:25:45] Trustee Bernardo: into plain language uh requires exercising a certain amount of judgment about the legal

[1:25:51] Trustee Bernardo: stuff that's in there and if we had general counsel not to anticipate trustee middleton's

[1:25:57] Trustee Bernardo: campaign coming up but the uh if we had general counsel uh i'd throw it at them and say you do it

[1:26:04] Trustee Bernardo: but uh i'm happy to pitch in on some version of plain language and then you know with no pride

[1:26:11] Trustee Bernardo: of ownership then you know chair getty and others can just beat the hell out of it later if they

[1:26:16] Trustee Bernardo: they feel like it. But I think it's just more efficient if I just try my hand at just boiling

[1:26:21] Trustee Bernardo: it down and then throwing it up for review by staff and trustees alike to see whether or not

[1:26:27] Trustee Bernardo: they feel it reflects the opinion properly. And then we can build on that to develop the

[1:26:33] Trustee Bernardo: position paper that the CEO was talking about. Once we've reached consensus about a plain

[1:26:40] Trustee Bernardo: language version of this opinion, then we can do that supplemental work that the CEO was talking

[1:26:45] Trustee Bernardo: either trustee

[1:26:47] Voice 12: stamford oh i i hate doing

[1:26:53] Trustee Stamford: the opposite tact each time but um i would prefer

[1:26:58] Trustee Stamford: to see staff start the process i'm finding that we are becoming more and more reliant on the

[1:27:03] Trustee Stamford: the legal um expertise in our council and our counselors and trustees are here

[1:27:11] Trustee Stamford: as political representatives and although I know that they're we all bring our own expertise to the

[1:27:21] Trustee Stamford: table I prefer to see staff take their take the initiative do the first run at it and then as

[1:27:31] Trustee Stamford: trustees all together we can add in our oh you've missed this or I'd like this focused on more

[1:27:38] Trustee Stamford: um we keep going into the legal realm and it's a this is the first time in four terms where we

[1:27:47] Trustee Stamford: have gone this deep into always looking at things from a legal perspective first whereas i'd want

[1:27:54] Trustee Stamford: to see a more um a staff orientated at least first step at it um and use our our our expertise

[1:28:06] Trustee Stamford: at the next level.

[1:28:10] Trustee Stamford: It's just something I've noticed this the first time

[1:28:12] Trustee Stamford: and we've had legal,

[1:28:15] Trustee Stamford: we've had trustees with legal background

[1:28:17] Trustee Stamford: in all four terms that I've been on.

[1:28:21] Voice 12: Trustee Harris?

[1:28:24] Voice 12: Mute.

[1:28:26] Voice 12: Thank you.

[1:28:29] Voice 12: I'm wondering, do

[1:28:32] Voice 3: we need to go back into camera

[1:28:34] Voice 3: to make a motion regarding this?

[1:28:39] Voice 3: Just don't want to step out of line.

[1:28:43] Voice 3: um david

[1:28:48] Voice 10: marler uh

[1:28:49] Voice 5: provided that the motion is just asking either staff or asking a couple of

[1:28:55] Voice 5: trustees to draft plain language around the legal opinion without going into any details what's in

[1:29:01] Voice 5: the legal opinion uh you can do it in open meeting okay great

[1:29:05] Voice 3: thank you very much i would love to

[1:29:09] Voice 3: to make a motion.

[1:29:11] Voice 3: I move the trustee Bernardo summarize the legal opinion

[1:29:20] Voice 3: and bring it back to the next governance committee meeting

[1:29:23] Voice 3: for us to review.

[1:29:30] Voice 3: If I may.

[1:29:32] Voice 10: Is there a seconder?

[1:29:34] Voice 10: Sorry, Mr. Marlowe.

[1:29:37] Voice 5: Yeah, just again, to make the resolution clear,

[1:29:41] Voice 5: I may just want to reference the specific legal opinion

[1:29:45] Voice 5: either legal opinions plural on part three or if there's a legal opinion with a date

[1:29:52] Voice 5: I just state that just so we're clear

[1:29:56] Voice 12: which legal opinion we're talking about

[1:30:00] Voice 3: That would be great if we could. And I would love some help on that, please.

[1:30:06] Voice 5: I think just on part three would be fine. Part three of the Alms Trust Act.

[1:30:11] Voice 5: Thank you.

[1:30:16] Voice 10: All right. So broadly, Section 3.

[1:30:25] Voice 10: Trustee Bernardo, one of the comments that you had made in one of the emails that we had was that it's not your area of expertise,

[1:30:36] Voice 10: expertise that um it's you know i'm not sure that you use the phrase blind leading the blind

[1:30:43] Voice 10: in terms of you and i trying to work through this kind of stuff together but um i would i think i

[1:30:49] Voice 10: would prefer for um trustee marler to um who's familiar with uh or not trustee sorry his staff

[1:30:56] Voice 10: um familiar both with the the um the legislation and the the workings of the trust to take a stab

[1:31:03] Voice 10: at it first and i know that you love extra homework but um um i think that expertise might

[1:31:10] Voice 10: help us um in terms of um all of this uh and i note that um section three has been legislated

[1:31:20] Voice 10: with some significant changes since a lot of these um opinions so i think that would help as well

[1:31:26] Voice 10: um uh

[1:31:28] Trustee Bernardo: i'm not familiar with the changes that you're referring to like the significant operation

[1:31:32] Voice 10: with first nations and regional districts and um i can't remember a long list of other government

[1:31:39] Voice 10: agencies have been added i believe yeah

[1:31:41] Trustee Bernardo: i guess we get a different view significantly i take your

[1:31:46] Trustee Bernardo: point um i don't um i i don't know how to respond here actually i just view this as an exercise just

[1:31:56] Trustee Bernardo: trying to get the work done they're just trying to move it forward um okay so that that's a

[1:32:02] Voice 13: Well,

[1:32:03] Trustee Bernardo: if I could finish. The point here is, if you're satisfied that Mr. Marlowe can do the work and that we can get a summary of what the take home of the legal opinion actually is, fine.

[1:32:17] Trustee Bernardo: I'm happy to let somebody else do it. Just so you know where I'm coming from is a certain amount of sense of urgency coming from the corporate planning side.

[1:32:27] Trustee Bernardo: I don't

[1:32:28] Trustee Bernardo: want to drag this out. And it seems to me it's pretty efficient to have somebody with legal training. Look, you're quite right. It wasn't blindly and blind. I was very, when I sent you that communication, I was at pains of pointing out that although I'm coming from it with my legal training, it's an amateur effort because I don't have an expertise in this area.

[1:32:51] Trustee Bernardo: having said that statutory interpretation is what it is and so just boiling that down for me would

[1:32:56] Trustee Bernardo: be fairly straightforward and i think i could be efficient at it uh i anticipate if somebody

[1:33:02] Trustee Bernardo: without legal training boils it down it'll be useful but we're just going to have to take another

[1:33:06] Trustee Bernardo: another cut at it because there'll be little nuances it'll just it's just the way it is

[1:33:10] Trustee Bernardo: there's just little nuances that go by the by uh so i'm in the look i'm in the hands of the

[1:33:17] Trustee Bernardo: committee here i'm volunteering to do the work but if the committee doesn't want me to do it

[1:33:21] Trustee Bernardo: that's fine we can we can skin the cat in a different direction so kind of an awkward moment

[1:33:27] Trustee Bernardo: there um

[1:33:31] Voice 12: do i need to read this sorry question

[1:33:35] Voice 10: first i it hasn't been seconded yet i haven't

[1:33:37] Voice 10: asked for a seconder um question for staff uh what's the workload um assuming that there's

[1:33:43] Voice 10: urgency for our next discussion in may about the um corporate plan um

[1:33:50] Voice 6: well first of all madam

[1:33:52] Voice 6: chair certainly we my suggestion to have some stuff that was just a resource to you and whether

[1:33:59] Voice 6: one or two trustees does some work first and then puts it through the staff or the other way around

[1:34:03] Voice 6: doesn't matter to me at all um you know i certainly have some time this is the work we do

[1:34:10] Voice 6: um as uh professional people um working with uh solicitors and and those kinds of things but

[1:34:16] Voice 6: But I don't want this to be a needless point of debate

[1:34:22] Voice 13: when

[1:34:22] Voice 6: you've got lots of different things to do.

[1:34:24] Voice 6: If you want some staff help, that's great.

[1:34:26] Voice 6: And it would be best if you do go that route

[1:34:28] Voice 6: to use the word staff as opposed to a particular person

[1:34:31] Voice 6: in case they decide to do whatever.

[1:34:36] Voice 2: But yeah, if you want to do some,

[1:34:39] Voice 2: a

[1:34:39] Voice 6: group of you do some pre-work,

[1:34:41] Voice 6: but then we take it and make it a more regular piece of work

[1:34:45] Voice 6: that goes in front of a, on the agenda.

[1:34:48] Voice 10: Okay.

[1:34:48] Voice 6: At

[1:34:48] Voice 2: some point, that's up to you.

[1:34:50] Voice 10: Is there a seconder for this motion?

[1:34:58] Voice 10: Trustee Middleton, is that a yes?

[1:35:05] Voice 10: Okay, any more discussion?

[1:35:09] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah.

[1:35:11] Voice 10: Okay, Trustee Bernardo.

[1:35:13] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, I'm just wondering if Trustee Harris

[1:35:15] Trustee Bernardo: would entertain a friendly amendment perhaps

[1:35:18] Trustee Bernardo: that I want that may help square the circle somehow

[1:35:22] Trustee Bernardo: that changed the resolution or the motion to say that,

[1:35:29] Trustee Bernardo: add staff in there.

[1:35:31] Trustee Bernardo: so that you know following up on what the cao was saying you know i can sort of take a lick at it

[1:35:37] Trustee Bernardo: and then throw it over to the ceo and mr marler to sort of um look at it and you know they can

[1:35:45] Trustee Bernardo: contribute their bit i mean it's all about just getting to what is an objectively fair summary of

[1:35:50] Trustee Bernardo: it so i mean anyhow that's the suggestion i don't trustee harris if you'd like to entertain that as

[1:35:56] Trustee Bernardo: friendly amendment most

[1:35:58] Voice 3: definitely i'd be happy to my idea here is to expedite the process and and i

[1:36:03] Voice 3: i think having a member of our committee and and we're so lucky to have trustee bernardo

[1:36:09] Voice 3: and his experience on this committee and so why this committee was formed

[1:36:14] Voice 3: um was to do this kind of um to do work in order to help um you know bring recommend or in order

[1:36:22] Voice 3: to bring recommendations to trust council so just trying to speed up the process and uh i most

[1:36:28] Voice 3: definitely would um entertain a friendly amendment um feel

[1:36:32] Trustee Bernardo: free i'm not sure everybody agrees with

[1:36:35] Trustee Bernardo: trustee harris's interpretation of what good luck looks like but i guess we'll just leave that

[1:36:40] Voice 10: trustee middleton thank

[1:36:43] Trustee Middleton: you um i i i'm going to request um in this piece of work which is

[1:36:48] Trustee Middleton: so i seconded the motion that we don't just have a piece of reportage or a summation but actually

[1:36:55] Trustee Middleton: i think we generally broadly agreed with the the thrust of the of the opinion and why it was

[1:37:01] Trustee Middleton: important and i'd like to see there be some analysis and recommendation in the report which

[1:37:07] Trustee Middleton: presumably will then go on to trust council as to why the um the opinion is important and what

[1:37:15] Trustee Middleton: what it means for the work of Council as in you know being very broad of course because we're not

[1:37:20] Trustee Middleton: in camera anymore that that work of definition and or moving forwards has to be at the Council table

[1:37:29] Trustee Middleton: and that and that's what the opinion effectively is saying so I would like that made explicit if

[1:37:35] Trustee Middleton: possible um you could say well I'm am I fettering the analysis well I I mean I don't think so

[1:37:43] Trustee Middleton: So, because I think that's what we all generally took

[1:37:45] Trustee Middleton: from the opinion in our previous discussion.

[1:37:48] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:37:52] Voice 10: Trustee Bernardo, what's your friendly amendment exactly?

[1:37:59] Trustee Bernardo: You're talking to me or Trustee Middleton?

[1:38:02] Trustee Bernardo: You.

[1:38:04] Trustee Bernardo: Just I would read the committee requested

[1:38:07] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Bernardo and staff summarize the legal opinion.

[1:38:12] Trustee Bernardo: I just raised my hand to respond

[1:38:14] Trustee Bernardo: to Trustee Middleton's comment.

[1:38:16] Trustee Bernardo: I appreciate where he's coming from,

[1:38:17] Trustee Bernardo: but I'm not entirely comfortable

[1:38:20] Trustee Bernardo: just going off and developing a position paper

[1:38:22] Trustee Bernardo: along the lines of what the CEO has suggested.

[1:38:25] Trustee Bernardo: I kind of think we do need to deal with this at stages,

[1:38:29] Trustee Bernardo: which is just boil it down this opinion to its essence.

[1:38:32] Trustee Bernardo: So we have a plain language version

[1:38:34] Trustee Bernardo: that eventually we can take to trust council

[1:38:38] Trustee Bernardo: as part of whatever position that we take.

[1:38:41] Trustee Bernardo: But that once we have that plain language version,

[1:38:44] Trustee Bernardo: that that can be a discussion document

[1:38:45] Trustee Bernardo: that this committee can work with

[1:38:48] Trustee Bernardo: to develop what the position is uh i'm not i i'm not comfortable i don't think it's appropriate for

[1:38:55] Trustee Bernardo: one trustee to wander off and just sort of manufacture some position and then bring it

[1:39:00] Trustee Bernardo: back for the committee to discuss i think i'd prefer to have the discussion and then from that

[1:39:05] Trustee Bernardo: we try to extract a consensus of what the position ought to be um okay

[1:39:11] Voice 10: trustee harris clearly

[1:39:17] Voice 3: um my

[1:39:18] Voice 3: My hopes are what Trustee Bernardo just proposes

[1:39:22] Voice 3: that this isn't the final stage.

[1:39:23] Voice 3: This is the first step to us bringing something

[1:39:26] Voice 3: to trust council as a recommendation.

[1:39:31] Voice 3: And yeah, I'm clearly hoping that there'll be

[1:39:35] Voice 3: much more discussion on the fact,

[1:39:37] Voice 3: on the issue prior to us bringing them something.

[1:39:44] Voice 10: Okay, Trustee Middleton, I would think that

[1:39:46] Voice 10: if we do it one step at a time,

[1:39:48] Voice 10: that this would be very helpful in terms of

[1:39:50] Voice 10: part of the next meeting, excuse me, in the corporate plan. I'm not quite sure of, I haven't

[1:39:58] Voice 10: read that part of the material in detail, the corporate plan. So if we can get this into some

[1:40:06] Voice 10: sort of a form that we can share, then I think that will help us in terms of the future conversations.

[1:40:12] Voice 10: And then we can analyze and pull it together and present something that we can, something we can

[1:40:18] Voice 10: use to present to the trust fair enough is it time to call a question any more discussion

[1:40:27] Voice 10: all right all those in favor all right that looks unanimous all right thank you trustee bernardo

[1:40:42] Voice 10: you've got some homework sorry trustee harris oh your hand was up for the vote okay all right so

[1:40:49] Voice 10: So 11.15, and we're now at Trustee Middleton's proposal, 7.3.

[1:41:00] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much, Chair.

[1:41:02] Voice 11: Chair?

[1:41:03] Voice 11: Yes?

[1:41:05] Voice 11: Sorry, Chair, and I took some notes when you were doing the reordering,

[1:41:08] Voice 11: but we haven't addressed 7.1 yet as well.

[1:41:13] Voice 10: And that's coming after this one.

[1:41:20] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:41:20] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair.

[1:41:22] Trustee Middleton: So I can be fairly brief in this because I guess I'm bringing it up

[1:41:26] Trustee Middleton: because i i think it's it's a good idea of course um but i'm also bringing it up just looking for a

[1:41:32] Trustee Middleton: general endorsement into investigating this further i i have it's a very high level overview

[1:41:40] Trustee Middleton: i'll give you in a moment there are a lot of questions that would need to be answered there's

[1:41:44] Trustee Middleton: research that needs to be undertaken and i guess though so in bringing it up what i'm looking for

[1:41:49] Trustee Middleton: is just in endorsement to explore the concept further neither to uh be um you know championing

[1:41:58] Trustee Middleton: it um and giving a direct position of what the what that should look like but to actually make

[1:42:06] Trustee Middleton: it the work of the committee and the first step of that would be to just to explore this concept

[1:42:10] Trustee Middleton: further so what is this concept what am i talking about you'll recall from the uh the the governance

[1:42:16] Trustee Middleton: review that one of the 15 recommendations was that council have at its disposal the position

[1:42:22] Trustee Middleton: of a secretary so that and that differs from the corporate secretary of the allen's trust but

[1:42:27] Trustee Middleton: actually actually it's the it's uh somebody who's at the disposal of council who coordinates and

[1:42:34] Trustee Middleton: and directs and facilitates the political work of the organization now the concept was a little

[1:42:41] Trustee Middleton: little esoteric a little hard to to uh to understand and so that as a result um we we put it where we

[1:42:48] Trustee Middleton: did in the matrix is obviously worthy of further investigation um but you know work need to to be

[1:42:54] Trustee Middleton: done to to make it uh uh its benefit more readily understood by by our colleagues um since then um

[1:43:04] Trustee Middleton: we've engaged in some work around council table that's informed a change to this position and so

[1:43:10] Trustee Middleton: So what I'm calling it now, and it can have another name, but basically in other organizations,

[1:43:16] Trustee Middleton: this position would be called that of a general counsel.

[1:43:19] Trustee Middleton: So a general counsel embodies the role of the secretary, but actually brings to the

[1:43:26] Trustee Middleton: position formal legal training, there would be a lawyer.

[1:43:28] Trustee Middleton: Now, not to make light of Trustee Stanford's point earlier about the sudden legalization

[1:43:37] Trustee Middleton: of counsel, that's not what it's for.

[1:43:40] Trustee Middleton: This person would be a lawyer in the sense that they would be available to the trust

[1:43:48] Trustee Middleton: and, in fact, would use the trust's legal budget to fund the position.

[1:43:54] Trustee Middleton: This is the revenue-neutral aspect of the position that the consultants talked about.

[1:44:01] Trustee Middleton: So we would have the benefit of basically somebody in-house for the legal opinions we

[1:44:06] Trustee Middleton: purchase already anyway um but that person would also facilitate the work of council in terms of

[1:44:14] Trustee Middleton: coordination all the things you would have read in the governance report in terms of

[1:44:18] Trustee Middleton: um liaising with staff through the chair as to as to the uh the political agenda before council to

[1:44:25] Trustee Middleton: basically make our decision making sharper and clearer and you know that i can rhyme off multiple

[1:44:32] Trustee Middleton: multiple benefits but I think conceiving of this position as a general counsel and having

[1:44:39] Trustee Middleton: in-house legal expertise offers several benefits uh uh one of which uh the to trustee Bernardo's

[1:44:47] Trustee Middleton: point is that we would have that expertise available for for purposes such as this when

[1:44:52] Trustee Middleton: whenever we are dealing with matches that require that legal lens I think secondly we may see

[1:44:58] Trustee Middleton: benefit in terms of um the the focus that we um bring to bylaw investigations in the sense that

[1:45:08] Trustee Middleton: this person could potentially play the role of the screening officer under the ombudsperson's

[1:45:14] Trustee Middleton: best practices again this is a maybe um i'm just mapping out some of the potential benefits

[1:45:20] Trustee Middleton: to justify us looking into this further um and the suspicion therefore might be that we

[1:45:26] Trustee Middleton: We reduce some of the legal costs associated with bylaw challenge, and potentially we reduce

[1:45:34] Trustee Middleton: our insurance costs or make ourselves more palatable to the municipal captive insurer.

[1:45:42] Trustee Middleton: Again, these are suppositions, and we need to investigate this further.

[1:45:47] Trustee Middleton: But I think the council position offers a lot of benefits, not only the same ones the

[1:45:53] Trustee Middleton: the consultants pointed out in terms of providing us with the vehicle to be clearer in our political

[1:46:00] Trustee Middleton: decision making and the direction that we offer to the organization. But also, I do think there's

[1:46:07] Trustee Middleton: probably some efficiencies and cost savings when it comes to our use of the legal profession.

[1:46:14] Trustee Middleton: We would actually benefit from having this in-house, this role in-house. And the fact of

[1:46:21] Trustee Middleton: matter is we already fund basically through outside the purchase of outside legal opinion

[1:46:27] Trustee Middleton: we in essence already fund that work and so we would just be shifting um how that work is done

[1:46:34] Trustee Middleton: and giving it to a person that we derive also a much greater benefit from in terms of our um

[1:46:41] Trustee Middleton: our conduct as a political body so so that's the very high level pitch um there's obviously

[1:46:48] Trustee Middleton: a lot of questions in terms of well how does that work in other organizations how would it work in

[1:46:53] Trustee Middleton: terms of the this question of the public sector hiring uh um a position could the person be hired

[1:47:00] Trustee Middleton: outside of the of the the the public sector i don't know um so these are and should they be

[1:47:07] Trustee Middleton: again i don't know this is uh what basically i guess what i'm asking is that we start to do

[1:47:12] Trustee Middleton: uh we start to build the research of this position from the point where the consultants

[1:47:18] Trustee Middleton: consultants left it in the governance review and and see what we get see if we like what we're

[1:47:24] Trustee Middleton: seeing basically and um see if with the benefits if it looks like we'll derive the benefit that

[1:47:29] Trustee Middleton: I I think we will so that's basically what I'm asking for is just endorsement that we

[1:47:34] Trustee Middleton: investigate this further um and obviously in doing so we need this to be obviously a joint idea of

[1:47:44] Trustee Middleton: this committee that we generally all endorse and then obviously council will need to become of the

[1:47:49] Trustee Middleton: same view before we take any action in this regard so it's a you know it's a longer term project um

[1:47:55] Trustee Middleton: but i think it does have to begin in this way with just a the conversation and um um kind of

[1:48:02] Trustee Middleton: an endorsement of the idea to find out more so that's it chair thank you very much and who do

[1:48:08] Voice 10: do you see

[1:48:08] Voice 10: sorry who do you see is doing the research well

[1:48:12] Trustee Middleton: i think to to your phrase that

[1:48:15] Trustee Middleton: i've heard chair yeah i i know you like the idea of homework assignments and i could see it there's

[1:48:21] Trustee Middleton: a general level obviously it's going to be done in in at a higher level before um there's um you

[1:48:29] Trustee Middleton: know obviously it's at some point staff will be um i'm sure we'll task uh with with with starting

[1:48:35] Trustee Middleton: to look into the more minute details of what that position might look like and what some other

[1:48:39] Trustee Middleton: examples are but i think right now maybe i'm i'm happy to just find at a high level some examples

[1:48:45] Trustee Middleton: of this in other organizations uh and maybe just put down a kind of a two-pager sort of a

[1:48:51] Trustee Middleton: a decision brief um and then we we have the broader discussion around the committee table

[1:48:58] Trustee Middleton: and make decisions to ask how to proceed from there so i guess in essence i could

[1:49:03] Trustee Middleton: flesh it out a little bit more um find some examples for consideration and um yeah that's

[1:49:14] Trustee Middleton: my answer okay

[1:49:16] Voice 10: so it's in the matrix is not immediate but important um so you're not suggesting

[1:49:24] Voice 10: at this point that it become urgent and high priority but that um you want endorsement in

[1:49:31] Voice 10: terms of doing uh a two-page fleshing out or yeah i think endorsement

[1:49:39] Trustee Middleton: to to the idea that this is a

[1:49:41] Trustee Middleton: uh i guess um and i uh it's an idea at least worthy of the time and attention of the committee

[1:49:51] Trustee Middleton: to contemplate the next step obviously more needs to be learned before the committee can kind of

[1:49:56] Trustee Middleton: make that decision so right now it's basically just a pitch for uh uh a spot on the agenda i

[1:50:01] Trustee Middleton: I guess you could say, in consideration by the committee in more detail.

[1:50:05] Trustee Middleton: But, you know, I bring it out.

[1:50:07] Trustee Middleton: It's sort of this very high level in case there's, you know, absolute anathema to the idea.

[1:50:12] Trustee Middleton: Or if there's incredibly strong support, well, maybe we resource it differently.

[1:50:16] Trustee Middleton: So there we are.

[1:50:21] Voice 12: Comments?

[1:50:22] Voice 10: Discussion? Any objection?

[1:50:27] Voice 10: Oh, there's some hands. Russ.

[1:50:29] Voice 10: yeah

[1:50:34] Voice 6: obviously you know um we're getting to a situation where elected officials are doing a

[1:50:40] Voice 6: lot of pre-reporting and reporting and um that's obviously uh i think this is a change i think

[1:50:47] Voice 6: let's acknowledge it um and maybe that's a value that is being expressed here at the governance

[1:50:54] Voice 6: committee and and and we'll see where it takes us um so i won't label that but i'm noting it

[1:51:00] Voice 6: um just that there's that um that desire the other consideration is this is significant

[1:51:09] Voice 6: and this is um i would be writing at some point to trust council around this matter

[1:51:15] Voice 6: um there's a there's lots of implications they're

[1:51:17] Voice 6: both good bad or whatever we don't know enough about it yet um but uh just trying to stake out

[1:51:26] Voice 6: some territory around being providing staff reporting associated with any potential outcome

[1:51:30] Voice 6: come at the end of the day which i think would be regular thanks trustee

[1:51:36] Voice 10: stanford just in your

[1:51:42] Trustee Stamford: initial thoughts on this trustee middleton this would replace the idea of a secretary

[1:51:50] Trustee Stamford: is is that my understanding that

[1:51:55] Trustee Middleton: that's right yeah i think we would derive additional benefit

[1:52:00] Trustee Middleton: from having the role be a general counsel versus uh the secretariat function which i could see the

[1:52:07] Trustee Middleton: value of and i see it in other organizations but i think uh yep the short answer is yes

[1:52:14] Voice 10: okay thanks trustee peterson uh

[1:52:20] Voice 11: thank you chair i'm certainly not uh opposed to endorsing uh

[1:52:25] Voice 11: trustee middleton to to go ahead and do some homework on this and and bring us some more back

[1:52:30] Voice 11: um but i just caution in terms of the speed we may be able to address it more in depth um because we

[1:52:39] Voice 11: We do have as noted other items listed as urgent

[1:52:45] Voice 11: and higher priority, which is not to say don't do the work.

[1:52:50] Voice 11: I think it's perfectly reasonable to start that.

[1:52:53] Voice 11: So I'm happy to endorse Trustee Middleton coming back

[1:52:58] Voice 11: with a little bit more in depth on this,

[1:53:00] Voice 11: just with the understanding that we have higher priority

[1:53:04] Voice 11: items and that we sort of made those determinations

[1:53:10] Voice 11: already so that the you know this this work may not become immediately a priority and as long as

[1:53:16] Voice 11: that's understood that's i'm perfectly fine with it

[1:53:20] Voice 12: trustee patrick

[1:53:22] Trustee Patrick: i'm very intrigued with the

[1:53:25] Trustee Patrick: general counsel comments i've been um i don't maybe because i don't have enough to do but i've

[1:53:30] Trustee Patrick: been watching the crd electoral area committee meetings more regularly um and i note that they

[1:53:38] Trustee Patrick: always have general counsel even present at their you know committee meeting not just the board

[1:53:42] Trustee Patrick: level meetings of the um regional district um i'm you know while i appreciate uh trustee middleton's

[1:53:50] Trustee Patrick: opera i wonder if this is more of a staff question about because i see general counsel is a very

[1:53:56] Trustee Patrick: different role in the potential of savings on on one hand um and um and i you know that there's

[1:54:07] Trustee Patrick: what would the role be, what could be in the role and what would be the cost and what are the

[1:54:13] Trustee Patrick: potential savings that are in our budget area. So it's to me, and there's a fairly significant

[1:54:20] Trustee Patrick: analysis piece around a general council, because I think there's a hundred examples of every

[1:54:25] Trustee Patrick: municipality in the area and regional district that operate with the general council.

[1:54:35] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo?

[1:54:36] Voice 12: of yeah

[1:54:37] Trustee Bernardo: what i'm hearing is uh trustee middleton is on the verge of framing a question for which

[1:54:46] Trustee Bernardo: we would need staff's input and that um uh i stand to be corrected by him but

[1:54:54] Trustee Bernardo: i haven't heard him prescribing anything at this juncture it's more like he wants to explore the

[1:55:00] Trustee Bernardo: question on behalf of the committee come up with something and then hopes to have a reception

[1:55:06] Trustee Bernardo: that's reasonably friendly for it when he comes back.

[1:55:12] Trustee Bernardo: But the CEO's point is well taken that the idea here

[1:55:18] Trustee Bernardo: of introducing general counsel is no small thing.

[1:55:22] Trustee Bernardo: That would have structural changes.

[1:55:25] Trustee Bernardo: It has a lot of potential consequences

[1:55:28] Trustee Bernardo: and it's definitely something that we would need input

[1:55:31] Trustee Bernardo: from staff on to develop the idea more fully

[1:55:38] Trustee Bernardo: but just setting the groundwork, I don't know, maybe I've got it wrong,

[1:55:43] Trustee Bernardo: but it seems to me that Trustee Middleton is basically, like I said before,

[1:55:46] Trustee Bernardo: just wants approval to formulate the question, bring it back.

[1:55:50] Trustee Bernardo: And I think if he gets enough traction from the rest of us after that,

[1:55:57] Trustee Bernardo: I think at that juncture is when we do need to recruit staff's help on this

[1:56:02] Trustee Bernardo: because it's a big question.

[1:56:04] Trustee Bernardo: I

[1:56:09] Voice 10: guess whether or not it's chicken and egg or horse and cart, when CAO Hudson's pillar says that it's significant and has lots of implications, and that's repeated by Trustee Bernardo, I'm wondering if we need to have that outline on the table before we start considering.

[1:56:31] Voice 10: considering um um or we i don't think there's anything to stop any trustee from uh doing some

[1:56:38] Voice 10: work and coming up with an idea to try and move this in something in a matrix um up into um higher

[1:56:46] Voice 10: priority um i don't know is there a motion is there um i mean i think we're at 11 30 we've got

[1:56:55] Voice 10: got a couple of major things left to talk about,

[1:56:58] Voice 10: but what do we do with this?

[1:57:00] Voice 10: Trustee Harris.

[1:57:02] Voice 3: I don't have a motion, I just wanted to state

[1:57:04] Voice 3: that this may help us in the future move forward

[1:57:09] Voice 3: with things that are in the high priority section

[1:57:13] Voice 3: of matrixes to,

[1:57:16] Voice 12: so leave it there.

[1:57:22] Voice 12: Trustee Middleton.

[1:57:26] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair.

[1:57:27] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I don't think basically mission accomplished

[1:57:31] Trustee Middleton: accomplished in the sense of I wanted to obviously bring it up clearly if it stands any chance of

[1:57:35] Trustee Middleton: um of um happening it's gonna have to be an involved and an iterative process with

[1:57:43] Trustee Middleton: with trustees and staff um so I think the way trustee Bernardo couched it was uh basically

[1:57:50] Trustee Middleton: it's like notice of my framing a question I guess it's almost notice of emotion versus actually a

[1:57:57] Trustee Middleton: motion for support of this but in order i think the key to understand that i know that it's not

[1:58:03] Trustee Middleton: the most straightforward concept is that this position will be structured on the role as the

[1:58:09] Trustee Middleton: consultants identified of this corporate sector the council secretary so if i could do some work

[1:58:16] Trustee Middleton: around framing that and bring that forward absolutely then it would need to go into

[1:58:22] Trustee Middleton: into staff hands but of course there would need to be some direction from the at least the

[1:58:28] Trustee Middleton: committee I would imagine so I guess I'm telegraphing that intent but at this point I

[1:58:32] Trustee Middleton: don't think it's to the strength of having a motion needed behind it I could be wrong I'm

[1:58:38] Trustee Middleton: open to any suggestion so

[1:58:40] Voice 10: let's just take your proposition for information and we'll test to

[1:58:47] Voice 10: to see whether or not you do your own homework assignment

[1:58:52] Voice 10: and figure out when we've got time to talk about it

[1:58:55] Voice 10: and on the next or the next agenda.

[1:58:59] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, appreciate it.

[1:59:02] Voice 10: Tabled, all right.

[1:59:03] Voice 10: So finance planning committee, you have a motion?

[1:59:11] Voice 10: You want to table that first?

[1:59:14] Trustee Bernardo: I guess so.

[1:59:15] Trustee Bernardo: I guess that's as good a way of framing the discussion here,

[1:59:19] Trustee Bernardo: here, but by way of background, FPC received the work of the working group and also the

[1:59:26] Trustee Bernardo: CEO, preliminary work on corporate planning.

[1:59:32] Trustee Bernardo: And we're not going to discuss that work.

[1:59:36] Trustee Bernardo: We're not going to get into it in any detail today, but the work needs to continue.

[1:59:43] Trustee Bernardo: and that's why I've developed this motion so that pending the May 29 meeting when we will

[1:59:51] Trustee Bernardo: actually have a larger discussion of it this initiative which begins with governance committee

[1:59:58] Trustee Bernardo: needs essentially clear

[2:00:00] Trustee Bernardo: by the governance committee to let the FPC

[2:00:02] Trustee Bernardo: keep doing its work on this front together with staff.

[2:00:05] Trustee Bernardo: So that's why this motion is in place

[2:00:07] Trustee Bernardo: and it tracks some, but not all of the things

[2:00:11] Trustee Bernardo: that came from the FPC motion,

[2:00:12] Trustee Bernardo: like after the FPC had heard

[2:00:14] Trustee Bernardo: from the working group and staff.

[2:00:18] Trustee Bernardo: And there's things that FPC decided on

[2:00:23] Trustee Bernardo: that are just going to have to wait

[2:00:24] Trustee Bernardo: until the governance committee can get around to it.

[2:00:26] Trustee Bernardo: For example, section three and some of the other aspects,

[2:00:28] Trustee Bernardo: That's why they're not discussed in this draft motion

[2:00:31] Trustee Bernardo: that I sent to Laurie on the weekend.

[2:00:35] Trustee Bernardo: So that's the idea there.

[2:00:40] Trustee Bernardo: I also think, and I mentioned this in my email

[2:00:45] Trustee Bernardo: that I think it'd be helpful to hear from the CEO briefly,

[2:00:49] Trustee Bernardo: although we're not receiving briefings

[2:00:51] Trustee Bernardo: from the working group,

[2:00:54] Trustee Bernardo: the CEO's observation in his brief memo

[2:00:57] Trustee Bernardo: and presentation made to FPC

[2:01:00] Trustee Bernardo: touches on a fundamental point about where this thing

[2:01:04] Trustee Bernardo: is the implication of this, of corporate planning.

[2:01:08] Trustee Bernardo: And it goes to the heart of what this committee does.

[2:01:11] Trustee Bernardo: It's a governance issue about how we make decisions.

[2:01:15] Trustee Bernardo: And before I put forward the motion,

[2:01:20] Trustee Bernardo: I don't know if the chair is prepared to indulge it,

[2:01:22] Trustee Bernardo: but I think it might be helpful if we could briefly hear

[2:01:25] Trustee Bernardo: from the CAO about his thoughts

[2:01:28] Trustee Bernardo: about the implications of corporate planning

[2:01:31] Voice 12: for decision-making.

[2:01:36] Voice 12: Thank you, yes.

[2:01:38] Voice 12: Thank you, Madam Chair.

[2:01:40] Voice 2: Can

[2:01:40] Voice 6: I see the resolution?

[2:01:41] Voice 6: Is there a resolution up?

[2:01:43] Voice 2: Right.

[2:01:44] Voice 2: Laurie?

[2:01:46] Voice 6: Just so I make sure I'm looking at the right.

[2:01:49] Voice 6: Right.

[2:01:51] Voice 2: Excuse me.

[2:01:53] Voice 6: Yes, I can readily attest to the fact that the subgroup of FPC is doing work

[2:01:58] Voice 6: and has been doing, has met a number of times

[2:02:01] Voice 6: and come up with the reference material you have here,

[2:02:07] Voice 6: which has been well-considered and well-discussed at FPC.

[2:02:10] Voice 6: And just for context, as a part of that conversation,

[2:02:14] Voice 6: they were tasked with a process,

[2:02:16] Voice 6: putting a way forward, an organized way

[2:02:22] Voice 6: to synchronize strategic directions with financial planning

[2:02:27] Voice 6: and get those things harmonized better.

[2:02:29] Voice 6: And in discussing it with them, and frankly, having been at now many different LTC and Trust Council meeting decision moments, I think there is wisdom in considering how decisions are made, particularly when they're significant decisions, and particularly when they have to measure things that aren't necessarily measurable against each other, which often happens in the budget process.

[2:02:57] Voice 6: process so i wrote just a memo to the attention of the uh the fbc subgroup and hopefully at some

[2:03:06] Voice 6: point to attract your attention around structured decision making um both from a philosophical

[2:03:13] Voice 6: perspective because i think it's essential for a body with this many elected officials having to

[2:03:17] Voice 6: make this many decisions that they have a not a common outcome but a common process of decision

[2:03:23] Voice 6: decision-making, and that some of these things be incorporated into our decision-making processes.

[2:03:28] Voice 6: And I wrote this brief memo. It's on page 24 here. You might want to refer it to a future meeting,

[2:03:34] Voice 6: but I think there's some practical things that the trust can consider in terms of assisting

[2:03:41] Voice 6: decision-making. And I bring you to that awkward moment when an issue's on the table,

[2:03:45] Voice 6: staff provide a brief review when they're asked, but that there's that moment, and then

[2:03:53] Voice 6: there's it's back to the chair and and we really entertain the first motion that comes up and that

[2:03:58] Voice 6: first motion can take things anywhere um and that is the right of an elected official but for for

[2:04:05] Voice 6: complex matters there might be it might be better to have a little decision-making matrix that we

[2:04:10] Voice 6: put into place to have an ordered way to discuss discuss options prior to getting um motions on the

[2:04:18] Voice 6: the floor too quickly, or the opposite, maybe to accelerate conversations. So here's this

[2:04:25] Voice 6: briefing. I think that a decision matrix would be one, we talk about criteria, quite often,

[2:04:34] Voice 6: there are no criteria, other than a broad assessment of how commensurate something is

[2:04:41] Voice 6: with the policy statement. But in terms of this current body, Trust Council, and its belief system,

[2:04:48] Voice 6: and why this relates to our previous conversation are there criteria that trust council wants to

[2:04:54] Voice 6: establish around its budget and to leverage those in making its decisions we don't really

[2:05:00] Voice 6: consistently bring that forward in a way to help trustees they're just sort of leveraged into

[2:05:05] Voice 6: making a decision on a budgetary basis this ocp a review versus this local area planning process

[2:05:12] Voice 6: who's helping winnow that material down in a concise way and then finally the distinction

[2:05:18] Voice 6: between authority and responsibility um i think the committees and it's touched in the governance

[2:05:23] Voice 6: review i think the government the various committees of trust council need to be given

[2:05:31] Voice 6: more responsibility and with that responsibility comes a greater responsibility to report out to

[2:05:38] Voice 6: trust council and have done and and bring a recommendation to trust council so that the

[2:05:43] Voice 6: trust council itself doesn't have to reconsider something that another body's been thinking about

[2:05:48] Voice 6: about forever. Quite often, no offense to the organization, there'll be a general discussion

[2:05:54] Voice 6: and let's move this forward to Trust Council, but they're really moving that work to Trust

[2:06:00] Voice 6: Council and it's ineffective on a quarterly basis with 26 different opinions. So I think

[2:06:07] Voice 6: there's some value in the organization to undertake that. And finally, communication's

[2:06:10] Voice 6: being touched on a lot um even now governance committee asking fpc fpc asking a subgroup of

[2:06:19] Voice 6: fpc that body reporting back to fpc fpc then reporting to the governance committee ultimately

[2:06:25] Voice 6: it's going to end up at ec is going to see it and then it's going to go to trust council so how do

[2:06:31] Voice 6: we have inter-organizational communications around topics and how do we how do trustees who

[2:06:38] Voice 6: who aren't involved in an actual decision formulation process,

[2:06:43] Voice 6: know where we're at.

[2:06:46] Voice 6: And I think there's some value in assisting decision-making

[2:06:49] Voice 6: by having a more constant record of where things are.

[2:06:53] Voice 6: So I'll leave you with that,

[2:06:54] Voice 6: but I think that this body is an appropriate body

[2:06:57] Voice 6: to start investigating how to have difficult conversations

[2:07:00] Voice 6: and how to put, it doesn't always have to be policy,

[2:07:04] Voice 6: but how to put some procedures in place

[2:07:06] Voice 6: to have some good conversations

[2:07:08] Voice 6: and make, accelerate decisions in a reasonable way.

[2:07:11] Voice 6: If we don't, I think that the Islands Trust

[2:07:15] Voice 6: will always languish to a certain degree

[2:07:16] Voice 6: because you've got 15 corporate entities

[2:07:18] Voice 6: that all have some authority associated with them.

[2:07:22] Voice 6: And we all know how they interrelate

[2:07:24] Voice 6: is a structural challenge.

[2:07:27] Voice 6: So we have to make those as smooth

[2:07:29] Voice 6: and efficient as we possibly can.

[2:07:32] Voice 6: Thank you, Madam Chair, for that five minutes.

[2:07:34] Voice 6: That's the notion of me introducing

[2:07:36] Voice 6: this structured decision-making discussion.

[2:07:43] Voice 12: comments discussion yeah

[2:07:47] Trustee Bernardo: yeah i can pipe in with a comment about that which is

[2:07:52] Trustee Bernardo: it starts the ceo has has elaborated properly i think but the corp it really this does begin

[2:08:02] Trustee Bernardo: with the corporate planning project which has identified that um if i can boil it down that

[2:08:09] Trustee Bernardo: we need rules of procedure to bring discipline to decision making when it comes down to these

[2:08:13] Trustee Bernardo: financial matters um there needs and the implication of having a structured decision

[2:08:20] Trustee Bernardo: making process for that has implications for other decisions but taking it back to the corporate

[2:08:25] Trustee Bernardo: planning side of it for a corporate planning function to be effective we can't have a situation

[2:08:30] Trustee Bernardo: where um our rules of procedure amongst at trust council are so loose that they permit

[2:08:41] Trustee Bernardo: motions coming up off the floor in the middle of the year um after strategic planning and

[2:08:49] Trustee Bernardo: financial decisions have made that have financial consequences that haven't gone through haven't

[2:08:54] Trustee Bernardo: gone through the disciplined process contemplated by corporate planning if

[2:08:58] Voice 10: i can pause you there

[2:09:00] Voice 10: for a second this is the content of the discussion that we have to have about why this is the whole

[2:09:05] Voice 10: process is important and i didn't think that russ's comments were against the motion that's

[2:09:11] Voice 10: on the floor no

[2:09:13] Trustee Bernardo: i was just you asked for comments i was just following up on what russ was saying

[2:09:17] Trustee Bernardo: it basically i'm just agreeing with him but i'm just trying to focus it back on the corporate

[2:09:21] Trustee Bernardo: planning side of it that that's what the implication of this would be to impose more

[2:09:25] Trustee Bernardo: rigor and yes to a certain extent take away discretion from individual trustees to be able

[2:09:31] Trustee Bernardo: who will make motions.

[2:09:32] Trustee Bernardo: But we've

[2:09:32] Voice 10: got 15 minutes left on the.

[2:09:35] Voice 10: But

[2:09:36] Trustee Bernardo: anyhow, if we can return

[2:09:37] Voice 10: to the motion,

[2:09:39] Trustee Bernardo: the purpose of the motion is to move this thing forward

[2:09:42] Trustee Bernardo: so that the FPC can continue working on this.

[2:09:46] Trustee Bernardo: And when it was up on the screen before, by the way,

[2:09:48] Trustee Bernardo: it wasn't all there.

[2:09:50] Trustee Bernardo: There's a second part of it that's kind of missing.

[2:09:55] Trustee Bernardo: There you go.

[2:09:57] Voice 10: Squad analysis, okay.

[2:09:59] Voice 10: Trustee Stamford.

[2:10:02] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you.

[2:10:03] Trustee Stamford: you i'm i'm in support of this motion um i i like to see some kind of structure and and this provides

[2:10:14] Trustee Stamford: the beginnings of it i think where i'm not clear still is um what does a corporate plan

[2:10:21] Trustee Stamford: really look like um if somebody could send me a good example of a corporate plan what we're

[2:10:29] Trustee Stamford: aiming for what it actually looks like on the screen that would help me see how we're moving

[2:10:34] Trustee Stamford: forward or how we're what we're trying to move forward to i'm still kind of vague on the notion

[2:10:42] Trustee Stamford: um so if i could get some examples um i'd appreciate that

[2:10:48] Voice 10: christy patrick well

[2:10:51] Trustee Patrick: being on

[2:10:52] Trustee Patrick: the uh working group i can help you there uh we did exactly that we started with looking for

[2:10:56] Trustee Patrick: for examples, because we knew that would help us all.

[2:11:00] Trustee Patrick: District of Saanich is the,

[2:11:02] Trustee Patrick: if you look at the pictures that are on page 14

[2:11:04] Trustee Patrick: of the agenda package,

[2:11:05] Trustee Patrick: those came out of District of Saanich.

[2:11:08] Trustee Patrick: And it's the bullseye picture

[2:11:11] Trustee Patrick: with a strategic plan being in the middle,

[2:11:13] Trustee Patrick: it's the whole process, that whole circle.

[2:11:16] Trustee Patrick: But District of Saanich, take a look at their materials,

[2:11:19] Trustee Patrick: and that gives you an example.

[2:11:25] Voice 12: All right, we need a

[2:11:26] Voice 10: seconder for this motion.

[2:11:29] Voice 10: Oh, sorry.

[2:11:30] Voice 10: Yeah.

[2:11:33] Voice 6: well i think there is going you know this work needs to continue or that would be my recommendation

[2:11:38] Voice 6: but there are some thoughts that the governance committee is going to have to think and that is

[2:11:43] Voice 6: does the corp is the corporate planning process a totality is it considering the entire organization

[2:11:50] Voice 6: in a way or is it continuing or is it considering the strategic planning process and or how do those

[2:11:57] Voice 6: were late i think that question is still being worked on at the fpc level but but i don't think

[2:12:03] Voice 6: they'll it'll be just them who thinks that through i think it's going to be also the governance

[2:12:08] Voice 6: committee is going to have to think about that as it gets its reporting from fpc and and think

[2:12:14] Voice 6: how do they want to present that to trust council at some point okay so just i leave you with with

[2:12:22] Voice 6: that thought from the corporate planning understanding what corporate planning really

[2:12:26] Voice 6: isn't how comprehensive it is or not okay

[2:12:30] Voice 10: i'm gonna move i'm gonna second this motion i was

[2:12:33] Voice 10: gonna second it but yeah okay there we go okay it's seconded now any more discussion

[2:12:38] Voice 10: all

[2:12:41] Voice 12: right let's have a vote all those in favor so all right um any opposed i think we've got

[2:12:59] Voice 12: it carried all right um

[2:13:01] Voice 10: now the um the next meeting is may the 29th i haven't checked with

[2:13:08] Voice 10: all the staff to see whether or not they're available but i would like to have the bulk

[2:13:14] Voice 10: of that agenda um put set aside for uh presentation of this with both the fpc and um the staff that

[2:13:25] Voice 10: have been involved trustee middleton your hand is up thank

[2:13:31] Trustee Middleton: you just um an item of unfinished

[2:13:34] Trustee Middleton: business to at your pleasure at whatever point before the end of the meeting and that's we we

[2:13:39] Trustee Middleton: neglected to appoint um a member as we've now been given permission to do from this committee

[2:13:46] Trustee Middleton: to the financial planning committee um

[2:13:49] Voice 10: i thought we did that at the first meeting that was trustee

[2:13:54] Voice 10: harris oh

[2:13:56] Trustee Middleton: okay my my apologies if that if we've if we've already done that then that's great all

[2:14:03] Voice 10: right so um getting back to the financial planning um committee assuming for the moment that all the

[2:14:12] Voice 10: staff are available um and other members of the financial planning committee um i'd like to have

[2:14:18] Voice 10: make sure that they're invited to attend our meeting on may the um i believe it's the 29th

[2:14:24] Voice 10: for the presentation of this and everybody agree to that fingers crossed they're all available

[2:14:34] Voice 10: any opposition all right so expand the membership for that discussion

[2:14:41] Voice 10: discussion um any other comments on that the material that's attached to this agenda

[2:14:49] Voice 10: um so it's pages 10 to 25 inclusive um i think those uh need to be repeated for the next

[2:14:58] Voice 10: or at least um everybody on this committee have a chance to read that material so

[2:15:03] Voice 6: madam chair is

[2:15:04] Voice 6: that the whole committee fpc or is that the subgroup that's invited or do you need to speak

[2:15:09] Voice 6: with the chair of fpc who happens to be here right now around how that's have we got an idea there

[2:15:18] Voice 6: what

[2:15:19] Voice 2: would be bad

[2:15:19] Voice 6: what would be best trustee

[2:15:23] Voice 10: bernardo uh

[2:15:24] Trustee Bernardo: happy to pipe in on that one uh

[2:15:27] Trustee Bernardo: i think for the presentation what we need is the um representatives uh on the working group uh

[2:15:33] Trustee Bernardo: from xc uh that would be uh christina evans and me read boland in addition to

[2:15:39] Trustee Bernardo: of uh laura who's already uh on it and on the staff side obviously we need to have uh the ceo

[2:15:45] Trustee Bernardo: here and um we'll need to have the um julia mobs the director of finance because um well it's all

[2:15:53] Trustee Bernardo: interrelated with that so we need that so uh apart from that i think we're in the ceo's hands if

[2:15:59] Trustee Bernardo: there's any other staff members that he thinks could prooffully attend um but i think that would

[2:16:04] Trustee Bernardo: covering thank

[2:16:07] Voice 12: you all right

[2:16:10] Voice 10: last on the agenda moving along is the uh issue of referrals

[2:16:18] Voice 10: so um my question with respect to the two referrals that are listed um where are we

[2:16:27] Voice 12: recording and negative

[2:16:32] Voice 10: votes in the minutes and a review of the current method of appointment

[2:16:36] Voice 10: and the makeup of membership for trust council standing committees my suggestion is that we

[2:16:42] Voice 10: try to figure out where to put that in the matrix at this point and um trustee patrick you had uh

[2:16:53] Voice 10: some comments in terms of what do we do with referrals generally my i'm well okay so my

[2:16:59] Voice 10: suggestion now in terms of trying to figure out when we get a referral where to put it in the

[2:17:03] Voice 10: matrix i think would be my suggestion in terms of what do we do with referrals when we get them

[2:17:08] Voice 10: i see a hand up um trustee peterson yeah

[2:17:14] Voice 11: thank you chair this goes back to uh comments from the

[2:17:18] Voice 11: cao about our reporting out to trust council and on our work program and i do have a couple of

[2:17:25] Voice 11: motions uh prepared and sent to um lord foster uh to address this and to set up a work program

[2:17:34] Voice 11: top priorities list um uh so when you're ready to entertain those uh we'll ask for them

[2:17:41] Voice 10: okay

[2:17:43] Voice 10: trustee bernardo yeah

[2:17:45] Trustee Bernardo: i i think um i'm in broad agreement with the direction you're pointing out

[2:17:50] Trustee Bernardo: in in the idea that when we get a referral i think we do have to

[2:17:55] Trustee Bernardo: assess where we put it into our priority list because there's only so much time in the day and

[2:18:00] Trustee Bernardo: obviously we have you know we just have to order our priorities so i think that's probably the

[2:18:05] Trustee Bernardo: the first thing we need to do when we get a referral, as you say,

[2:18:08] Trustee Bernardo: is to figure out where we want to put it into our, our,

[2:18:11] Trustee Bernardo: our priority matrix with one proviso, which is

[2:18:18] Trustee Bernardo: we may have referred to us questions that are like, you know,

[2:18:22] Trustee Bernardo: the equivalent of low hanging fruit that they're,

[2:18:23] Trustee Bernardo: they don't require a huge amount of work.

[2:18:26] Trustee Bernardo: And if we can dispose of a matter promptly I think that's helpful both for the

[2:18:30] Trustee Bernardo: credibility of the committee, but also just moving things along.

[2:18:34] Trustee Bernardo: so when we're assessing we may assessing where to put these things in a matrix in the matrix it may

[2:18:39] Trustee Bernardo: turn out that something is like not that great a priority but it's also really easy to do so we

[2:18:44] Trustee Bernardo: might as well just do it just move things along um because it's a low resource commitment uh for

[2:18:51] Trustee Bernardo: example um this business of recording of negative votes uh in minutes it seems to me that that's

[2:18:58] Trustee Bernardo: like um that's on the order of a housekeeping thing and if we and if we think that it's it's

[2:19:04] Trustee Bernardo: it's, you know, there seems to be a certain amount

[2:19:06] Trustee Bernardo: of groundswell that people want that available to them.

[2:19:08] Trustee Bernardo: The implication is there'd have to be an amendment

[2:19:11] Trustee Bernardo: to some policy.

[2:19:13] Trustee Bernardo: We're not going to discuss that today,

[2:19:14] Trustee Bernardo: but it seems to me that the recording of negative votes

[2:19:17] Trustee Bernardo: is something that we should be able to resolve

[2:19:19] Trustee Bernardo: in a fairly brief discussion,

[2:19:22] Trustee Bernardo: and turn that into a recommendation to trust council

[2:19:25] Trustee Bernardo: to either change the policy or not,

[2:19:29] Trustee Bernardo: you know, something like that.

[2:19:31] Trustee Bernardo: But, you know, item one there looks like

[2:19:33] Trustee Bernardo: a kind of pretty straightforward one that we might be able to dispose of uh reasonably soon trustee

[2:19:40] Trustee Patrick: patrick um yeah i would concur on item one as being able to be disposed of quickly hopefully

[2:19:47] Trustee Patrick: with a conversation but my comment is more about what's being directed to us um i i fear that

[2:19:55] Trustee Patrick: you know everything's suddenly going to become a governance issue uh for example i raised a policy

[2:20:00] Trustee Patrick: an existing policy that needed attention to Chair Luckham.

[2:20:07] Trustee Patrick: And he said, well, that'll end up being just sent to the governance committee.

[2:20:10] Trustee Patrick: It's like, I think as we sit on different committees and the conversation comes up,

[2:20:15] Trustee Patrick: that governance is a thing that exists.

[2:20:19] Trustee Patrick: And I don't think we want to become the filter of absolutely every modification that's going

[2:20:25] Trustee Patrick: to be made to a policy.

[2:20:27] Trustee Patrick: policy so that's what i more my conversation is that you know we're new we're just getting

[2:20:33] Trustee Patrick: started and that we need to establish you know do like i said do we want to be the keeper of

[2:20:39] Trustee Patrick: everything every decision that comes up no matter how big or little it is that they can't be made

[2:20:44] Trustee Patrick: with without uh else and i i hear the cao clearing his throat so i'll let him speak

[2:20:54] Voice 6: oh chair getty may i share my feelings just for a moment yes please so just for a moment

[2:21:00] Voice 6: just for a moment i think you are the high-minded group of trust council who's taking on the

[2:21:07] Voice 6: grandest questions of the day you are not the recording of negative votes in minutes group

[2:21:14] Voice 6: that's some mundane executive committee discussion because they have a whole bunch of staff

[2:21:20] Voice 6: that can go do that stuff they've been elected kind of to do the day-to-day you know mumbo jumbo

[2:21:27] Voice 6: or you know detail oriented things if that doesn't have a strong governance element associated with

[2:21:32] Voice 6: it and let them take the the ups the ups and the downs i recommend my recommendation to you is

[2:21:39] Voice 6: you've got so much to do is that you say no to everything you can um that gets sort of just sent

[2:21:46] Voice 6: your way and hopefully the governance committee picks it up um you've got me and you've got a bit

[2:21:52] Voice 6: of lori um and if if you're given something that's sort of an easy um easy task first of all i don't

[2:22:02] Voice 6: know whether that's really in your terms some of that stuff might not be in your terms of reference

[2:22:07] Voice 6: but then i'm having to write between ec and the governance committee stuff and we don't want that

[2:22:13] Voice 6: so overall i think you should say no to everybody if you can unless it's really core to some of the

[2:22:21] Voice 6: stuff you're doing and i'd refer this one back to make ec deal with it um there's members of

[2:22:27] Voice 6: ec on this committee they can speak up and tell me to be quiet but i i that'd be my recommendation

[2:22:32] Voice 6: to you you also meet much more infrequently so um it's going to take a lot more time

[2:22:41] Voice 6: time for something to get done if you're the stewards of a minor issue thanks anybody else

[2:22:55] Voice 10: trustee bernard i

[2:22:56] Trustee Bernardo: think that's a great idea uh the you know the idea of uh when

[2:23:02] Trustee Bernardo: first of all we're not going to stop people from making referrals and they should feel free to do

[2:23:07] Trustee Bernardo: it how we how we manage it though uh the ceo is quite right we can exercise some discretion there

[2:23:13] Trustee Bernardo: and um something for example this negative vote thing um we could very quickly just reach a

[2:23:21] Trustee Bernardo: resolution on how we think it ought to be done and then send it off to executive committee and ask

[2:23:27] Trustee Bernardo: them to to deal with it with our recommendation and just be done with it um i think the ceo is

[2:23:34] Trustee Bernardo: quite right we do have some pretty serious big picture things on our plate but you know i don't

[2:23:41] Trustee Bernardo: think that necessarily stops us from being a traffic cop i mean we can like i said if it's

[2:23:46] Trustee Bernardo: a low-hanging fruit item uh maybe with a brief discussion we can refer it off to executive

[2:23:51] Trustee Bernardo: committee and that can be our repository for getting small practical things out of the way

[2:23:56] Trustee Bernardo: with respect to some of the other referrals i don't think it's open to us to necessarily say

[2:24:00] Trustee Bernardo: no to all of them uh when you look at the second item here review the current method of appointment

[2:24:05] Trustee Bernardo: and makeup of membership of trust council standing committees well that actually i mean that was

[2:24:10] Trustee Bernardo: was actually addressed by the governance review report and arguably it's buried in one of those

[2:24:18] Trustee Bernardo: other items that we have in the matrix in a sense it's already on the priority list so when we've

[2:24:23] Trustee Bernardo: got a referral that is in a sense recapitulates work that we're already doing it's fair enough

[2:24:31] Trustee Bernardo: to look at it and send the message back yeah we're on it something like that but I don't think

[2:24:36] Trustee Bernardo: we should necessarily have a stance of just sort of straight arming everything that comes to us I

[2:24:40] Trustee Bernardo: I think when something's referred to us, I think we have to consider it, but like how we deal with it, how we schedule it.

[2:24:47] Trustee Bernardo: But I do agree at the CAO's point that it would be prudent for us to sort of unload the minor things or the things that other committees and especially the executive committee can handle without a huge amount of input from us.

[2:25:05] Trustee Bernardo: yes let's refer it out again to to somebody to implement either executive committee or staff

[2:25:10] Trustee Bernardo: if it can be dealt with very quickly okay

[2:25:14] Voice 10: so i'm going to recommend it's an executive move that um

[2:25:18] Voice 10: the recording of negative votes go into our matrix is not immediate and lower priority

[2:25:23] Voice 10: the bottom left hand corner with a note to the executive committee that this is low on our

[2:25:30] Voice 10: priority list and if they want anything to happen uh quickly on this that they could take it from us

[2:25:37] Voice 10: hint hint i think uh trustee peterson and uh trustee luckham are still here and the um review

[2:25:47] Voice 10: the current method of i can hardly read this appointment i think that's in our matrix under

[2:25:54] Voice 10: committees um not immediate but important clear mandates size and numbers champion proposals to

[2:26:00] Voice 10: trust council i also hear that um our discussion about decision making might help with um some of

[2:26:07] Voice 10: these priorities also so does that take care of the referrals yes we just slotted

[2:26:14] Voice 12: them into the

[2:26:14] Voice 12: matrix okay and for the time being i

[2:26:21] Voice 10: think with respect to um trustees trustee patrick's comments

[2:26:27] Voice 10: that um unless and until we get some clarity on decision making which i think is going to be a

[2:26:33] Voice 10: really interesting part of that conversation that we'll just continue to take them and figure out

[2:26:39] Voice 10: once that show pops up what we do with it

[2:26:41] Voice 12: fair enough all right any other matters where's that

[2:26:49] Voice 12: agenda i

[2:26:53] Voice 10: think we've covered all of seven by some

[2:26:56] Voice 12: miracle it's 12 o'clock so what do we got

[2:27:02] Voice 12: any other business any new business um

[2:27:12] Voice 10: work program trustee harris i

[2:27:22] Voice 3: don't have any new

[2:27:23] Voice 3: business i'm sorry i just want to make sure um chair getty if you could stay on with me after

[2:27:27] Voice 3: the meeting closes just for um a quick second with staff um to discuss the uh my position on the fpc

[2:27:33] Voice 3: um thanks all

[2:27:36] Voice 10: right trustee peterson yeah

[2:27:42] Voice 11: thank you chair uh in the work program section i have

[2:27:45] Voice 11: a couple of um uh motions i forwarded and uh with your indulgence i'd read out the first one for us

[2:27:54] Voice 11: to consider okay

[2:27:56] Voice 12: okay

[2:27:59] Voice 11: the first one is i move that governance committee add to the work program by

[2:28:03] Voice 11: adding the following to the top priorities list section three island stress to act mandate

[2:28:09] Voice 11: strategic corporate planning process and meeting process bylaw 101 and policies

[2:28:17] Voice 10: all right you're just translating the matrix into a motion i'm

[2:28:25] Voice 11: translating the matrix into a motion

[2:28:27] Voice 11: that addresses the CA's CEO's comments earlier

[2:28:31] Voice 11: about having setting up the work program

[2:28:33] Voice 11: in the format that Trust Council is used to seeing it

[2:28:36] Voice 11: just to help our regularization and simple

[2:28:41] Voice 11: and I have got another motion for the second part.

[2:28:43] Voice 10: Okay, Trustee Stamford.

[2:28:45] Voice 10: I'm just seconding that.

[2:28:46] Voice 10: Okay, any more discussion?

[2:28:51] Voice 12: Call a vote all in favor.

[2:28:56] Voice 10: Okay, that passes unanimous.

[2:28:58] Voice 10: trustee harris okay that passes unanimous trustee patrick unanimously

[2:29:04] Voice 12: all

[2:29:05] Voice 10: right thank you the next

[2:29:08] Voice 10: motion

[2:29:08] Voice 11: um that the government's committee add the following to the project list election of

[2:29:16] Voice 11: executive committee representational differences committees clear mandates size and numbers

[2:29:20] Voice 11: champion proposals to tc mandate of conservancy more prominent secretariat needs research

[2:29:26] Voice 11: management review info to candidates before election compensation communications advocacy

[2:29:31] Voice 11: that

[2:29:34] Voice 12: does look familiar seconder sorry trustee stamford okay any discussion trustee patrick

[2:29:47] Voice 12: you're muted

[2:29:52] Trustee Patrick: i'm going to vote against this i think keeping the matrix takes the list and does

[2:29:59] Trustee Patrick: more than just

[2:29:59] Trustee Patrick: Just.

[2:30:00] Trustee Patrick: simply a list. And I think, you know, this is where we have the opportunity to show being different

[2:30:04] Trustee Patrick: than the, you know, we're trying to behave, show new behavior. Projects list is really a list of

[2:30:09] Trustee Patrick: stuff. I think your matrix shows there's some thought behind that stuff and it's a bit different.

[2:30:15] Trustee Patrick: So I don't think we need to maintain a projects list other than the matrix, I think is a replacement

[2:30:20] Trustee Patrick: of that.

[2:30:22] Voice 10: Thank you. Trustee Bernardo.

[2:30:25] Trustee Bernardo: I was actually going to follow up on that, make a

[2:30:27] Trustee Bernardo: a similar point, which is they're not really projects yet.

[2:30:31] Trustee Bernardo: What they are is they're questions on our horizon,

[2:30:35] Trustee Bernardo: the things that we actually have our hands around

[2:30:37] Trustee Bernardo: and we're treating as projects.

[2:30:39] Trustee Bernardo: The previous motion more or less covered that.

[2:30:46] Trustee Bernardo: So it's actually a little misleading

[2:30:48] Trustee Bernardo: to put this on the projects list

[2:30:49] Trustee Bernardo: because when we do get to these other priorities,

[2:30:53] Trustee Bernardo: we're probably going to be changing how we refer to them.

[2:30:58] Trustee Bernardo: We're going to beef them up probably in terms of giving them a bit more focus and clarity and

[2:31:02] Trustee Bernardo: being more specific about them. Anyhow, they're not actually projects. At this point, all they

[2:31:08] Trustee Bernardo: are is ideas that may become projects. So perhaps we're better off just leaving off at the moment.

[2:31:16] Voice 10: Any other comments? Trustee Stanford?

[2:31:27] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, I'm just trying to think in terms of

[2:31:29] Trustee Stamford: of um communicating out which i think is what the intent of this was um is that we instead just say

[2:31:38] Trustee Stamford: refer to matrix or put the matrix here um because i just see it as a way of communicating out

[2:31:48] Trustee Stamford: all

[2:31:51] Voice 10: right so if this motion fails then um would it be part of my report to council on behalf of

[2:31:59] Voice 10: the governance committee to indicate that we had difficulty with the projects list and that we um

[2:32:06] Voice 10: have been playing around with this matrix idea and um show that sorry uh trustee peterson

[2:32:16] Voice 11: yeah thank you um uh trustee stamford's exactly right my intention here was just to get uh

[2:32:22] Voice 11: a standard way of of uh getting the information of what we're considering and working on to trust

[2:32:29] Voice 11: council i'm not attached to this i absolutely was actually attached to the to the top priorities

[2:32:35] Voice 11: list because i think that's important um if we just want to say refer to the matrix i'm fine

[2:32:41] Voice 11: with that all

[2:32:43] Voice 10: right so let's vote on this motion we've got it's moved and we've got a seconder so

[2:32:47] Voice 10: we have this on the floor so let's deal with this one um ready to vote anybody uh all those in favor

[2:32:55] Voice 10: any opposed all right motion fails um so trustee peterson you want to rephrase it or trustee

[2:33:10] Voice 10: stamford the governance committee

[2:33:16] Trustee Stamford: okay i move that the

[2:33:22] yeah

[2:33:23] Trustee Stamford: i i wanted to see the original motion um i move that the governance committee

[2:33:34] Trustee Stamford: committee report out other activities through the matrix with

[2:33:48] Voice 10: reference to the matrix okay

[2:33:49] Voice 10: um

[2:33:51] Trustee Stamford: do we have a specific we haven't changed it that much have we no

[2:33:55] Voice 10: we have we added those two

[2:33:58] Voice 10: references referrals and

[2:34:02] Trustee Stamford: is it where is it available uh

[2:34:06] Voice 10: it's the last page of this agenda

[2:34:09] Voice 10: so it could be the same as part of the report to the trust council trustee peterson

[2:34:20] Voice 11: yeah i was just gonna suggest that we uh add some language about uh reporting to trust council in

[2:34:27] Voice 11: this motion so we could say

[2:34:31] Trustee Stamford: as through the matrix detailed in the agenda package april 17th well

[2:34:42] Voice 11: Well, I'm not sure if we need to put a date on it,

[2:34:47] Voice 11: because if we're going to be maintaining the matrix

[2:34:52] Voice 11: as part of our regular work,

[2:34:54] Voice 11: then I think the idea is that we'll just,

[2:34:57] Voice 11: when we do our reporting out to trust council,

[2:35:00] Voice 11: we would just include the latest version of the matrix.

[2:35:03] Trustee Stamford: Okay.

[2:35:03] Trustee Stamford: Can we give it a name?

[2:35:06] Trustee Stamford: Because right now it just sounds like a film.

[2:35:11] Trustee Stamford: can we say the governance priority matrix is that a yeah

[2:35:16] Voice 12: so

[2:35:19] Trustee Stamford: if we could add the governance

[2:35:21] Voice 12: priority matrix okay so the governance committee

[2:35:30] Voice 10: report out to the trust council

[2:35:32] Voice 10: other activities through the governance priority matrix and yeah

[2:35:37] Trustee Stamford: i'm sorry i'm so bad at

[2:35:39] Voice 12: at motions.

[2:35:42] Voice 10: Okay, Trustee Bernardo.

[2:35:45] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, I mean, we're following by reporting

[2:35:48] Trustee Bernardo: to trust council, we're following past practice about this,

[2:35:52] Trustee Bernardo: but I'm mindful of what Trustee Stamford had said before

[2:35:56] Trustee Bernardo: about being more effective about communication

[2:35:58] Trustee Bernardo: and also Trustee Patrick was talking about,

[2:36:03] Trustee Bernardo: you know, we can do things differently.

[2:36:04] Trustee Bernardo: I'm wondering

[2:36:05] Trustee Bernardo: if we just want to just

[2:36:06] Trustee Bernardo: at the end of every meeting,

[2:36:10] Trustee Bernardo: just circulate to all the trustees this is the this is the you know this is the matrix this is

[2:36:17] Trustee Bernardo: the these are the priorities that governance committee is operating on uh it's been amended

[2:36:23] Trustee Bernardo: or it's not been amended since last time and we just we just have a steady communication to other

[2:36:27] Trustee Bernardo: trustees we just send it out for their information this is where we're at folks and if there's

[2:36:32] Trustee Bernardo: changes we identify them and that way everybody stays informed so it would read more like that

[2:36:37] Trustee Bernardo: that the governance committee report to all trustees,

[2:36:43] Trustee Bernardo: it's governance priority matrix

[2:36:46] Trustee Bernardo: at the end of every governance committee meeting.

[2:36:51] Trustee Bernardo: How does that sound?

[2:36:52] Voice 12: So I'm okay with that.

[2:36:55] Trustee Stamford: So we could say instead of trust council say trustees.

[2:36:59] Trustee Bernardo: All right, I'll repeat the wording

[2:37:01] Trustee Bernardo: that the governance committee report out to all

[2:37:06] Voice 12: trustees,

[2:37:12] Voice 12: it's priority matrix

[2:37:18] Voice 12: It's governance priority matrix.

[2:37:20] Voice 12: Right, sorry.

[2:37:22] Voice 12: It's governance priority matrix.

[2:37:28] Voice 12: After every.

[2:37:31] Voice 12: After every meeting of the governance committee.

[2:37:37] Voice 12: And then we have this standing order where we just,

[2:37:41] Voice 12: we

[2:37:41] Trustee Bernardo: send out the message to folks that this is what we're up to.

[2:37:43] Trustee Bernardo: And, you know, this is where, where we're at.

[2:37:46] Voice 10: We haven't, we haven't introduced this to the trust council.

[2:37:51] Voice 10: I don't believe so.

[2:37:52] Voice 10: They have no idea what we're talking about.

[2:37:53] Voice 10: I

[2:37:53] Trustee Stamford: thought we did.

[2:37:54] Trustee Stamford: I did. I thought we

[2:37:57] Voice 12: saw it at Trust Council, but I could be wrong.

[2:37:59] Voice 10: All right. All right. So we've got a motion that's been amended, and I would gather that the amendment has been accepted.

[2:38:10] Voice 10: Have we got a seconder?

[2:38:11] Voice 10: I'll second it.

[2:38:12] Voice 10: Trustee Bernardo. All right. Any more discussion? Mr. Marler, you had your hand up.

[2:38:19] Voice 5: Yeah, I don't want to interrupt the resolution, but I just wanted to point out, no problems with what you're proposing to do, by the way.

[2:38:27] Voice 5: um but council does have policies on how committees report to it and one of them is that the

[2:38:33] Voice 5: committees will provide the top three priorities to trust council so even if you do this we'll

[2:38:38] Voice 5: still probably want to put something on the trust council agenda for them to consider at that time

[2:38:43] Voice 5: as well i

[2:38:44] Voice 10: think that was the first motion wasn't it yeah okay all right so let's vote on this one

[2:38:51] Voice 10: all in favor okay carried unanimously um next meeting um governance committee is scheduled

[2:39:06] Voice 10: to be held electronically may the 29th 23 from islands trust victoria office starting at 9 a.m

[2:39:12] Voice 10: whoops trustee bernardo your hand is up no it's down that

[2:39:19] Trustee Bernardo: was just a mistake sir sorry trustee

[2:39:21] Voice 10: peterson uh

[2:39:23] Voice 11: yeah thank you chair it just occurs to me that uh we might want to uh institute a

[2:39:28] Voice 11: standing item uh on the on this matrix uh just if we are going to amend it uh or or based on our

[2:39:36] Voice 11: discussions during any meeting just so that we have a process by where the the matrix is updated

[2:39:42] Voice 11: if that is appropriate yeah

[2:39:44] Voice 10: that's why i was going to object to the one that's attached to

[2:39:48] Voice 10: this agenda because we did amend it to add the recording of negative votes okay so um so we've

[2:39:57] Voice 10: done the work program the next meeting closed meeting and we've done that um rise and report

[2:40:04] Voice 10: what is that everybody's sound if

[2:40:10] Voice 5: a major um normally after an in-camera meeting in camera

[2:40:14] Voice 5: you would just have a

[2:40:15] Voice 5: discussion about what you would like to report out and then that's what the

[2:40:20] Voice 5: rise report is in this instance there's nothing to rise and report so you

[2:40:24] Voice 10: don't need to say anything

[2:40:25] Voice 5: All

[2:40:26] Voice 10: right. So we're only 15 minutes over. I will entertain a motion to adjourn.

[2:40:33] Voice 10: Trustee Stamford, Trustee Peterson. Anybody objecting? All in favor? Okay. And then,

[2:40:44] Voice 10: Jamie, you wanted to stay after and have a discussion with staff. And is that right?

[2:40:49] Voice 10: Just briefly, please. Yes.

[2:40:51] Voice 10: All right. Thank you all.

[2:40:53] Voice 10: Thank you.

[2:40:54] Voice 10: Laurie, I think we can go off the recording.

[2:40:58] Voice 10: The

[2:40:58] Voice 3: staff realized that I was on FPC and that we had, you know, appointed myself to that committee.

[2:41:10] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:41:12] Voice 12: Yeah.

[2:41:13] Voice 12: When did that happen?