Islands Trust Regional Planning Committee special meeting, July 27, 2023

[0:00:00] Voice 8: There we go. Are we all set to get going? I guess, Stephan, you can go ahead and put up the

[0:00:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): territorial acknowledgement slide, which, hello, I'm Laura Patrick. I'm the chair of the Regional Planning Committee today.

[0:00:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): i'm joined by a number of trustees here um i will introduce in a moment uh i'm coming

[0:00:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): today to you from the algonquin speaking people's territory and i know the rest of us are coming

[0:00:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): from uh the coast salish territory and thank you for placing this acknowledgement up here

[0:00:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): um as you know we are committed to reconciliation and working um working with the the many

[0:00:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): nations that uh are these islands territories uh are in and um the matters that we're talking

[0:01:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): about today housing being one of those of critical importance um with that uh we do have

[0:01:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): have an agenda before us and then I'll introduce the members so if we can first

[0:01:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): we have an official agenda I don't know if anyone has any additions or corrections that they wish to

[0:01:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): make to the agenda I'm not I

[0:01:30] Voice 17: do have one item for consideration okay just wondering what the status

[0:01:36] Voice 17: of the request to consider shoreline protection review which came through the

[0:01:46] Voice 17: Gabriela LTC to trust council to be referred to regional planning committee

[0:01:51] Voice 17: as a potential future project we may not have time to discuss that today but I

[0:01:57] Voice 17: just wanted to flag that as some potential future project maybe not for

[0:02:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): today's discussion well today is a special meeting as i understand it um on the topic of the housing

[0:02:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): toolkit uh so this isn't a full meeting right um so i guess at the very end when we talk about next

[0:02:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): meeting maybe we could just uh touch on that if um um we could i think it's probably a good practice

[0:02:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): to talk about our next meetings

[0:02:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): before we end this meeting to make sure we're we're not missing

[0:02:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): anything if that's okay yeah absolutely all right with that then can we approve the uh agenda

[0:02:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): through general consent i believe so because today i you know i know i'm working on one screen um

[0:02:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh and with the agenda and everything on it uh please you know get my attention if i'm missing

[0:02:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): you just just please step up and and speak because um i i can easily miss you so i'm not trying to be

[0:02:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): bad, but it's a tiny screen and too much going on. With that, I'd like to do a quick round of

[0:03:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): introductions of the trustees that are a part of the Regional Planning Committee we have here

[0:03:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): joining us. We have Trustee Allen from Hornby. We have Trustee Borthwick and Trustee Graham from

[0:03:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): Denman Island. Boy, that was a tough one for me to say. We have Trustee Campbell from North Pender.

[0:03:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): We have Trustee Elliot from Gabriola Island.

[0:03:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I'm Laura Patrick from Salt Spring Island.

[0:03:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): And we have Ex Officio joining us today.

[0:03:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): We have Trustee Leckham from Thetis Island, or I guess he's here in his role of chair

[0:03:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): of Trust Council.

[0:03:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): Did I miss anybody?

[0:03:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): I don't think so.

[0:03:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): We have a number of staff that are working with us today.

[0:03:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): We are fortunate to have the Director of Planning Services with us here, Stephan Cermak.

[0:03:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hello.

[0:03:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): stefan we have regional planning manager robert kojima and we have planner anurasa chadwick with

[0:04:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): us and i'm happy to have chloe cookson is uh working as admin behind us and before we start

[0:04:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): rolling the tape i should be heard she's moving on to an exciting new chapter in her life and how

[0:04:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): exciting it is and uh we are going to miss her dearly from the committee and wish her the best

[0:04:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): Best of luck. Did I miss anyone? I don't think so. So with that, we're going to move into our agenda. We did have a there's a public comment period. I keep forgetting about those, but I see there are no attendees. So I'll keep moving on.

[0:04:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): um and our business item today uh is is the strategy toolkit presentation i just wanted as

[0:04:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): we go um i'm really glad of the work that we did um when we met in nanaimo i know aaron um you

[0:04:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): weren't able to to join us there but i i think as a group we all felt fairly strong that the

[0:05:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): vision that we're working toward is a diverse uh or resilient and diverse island communities

[0:05:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): And that the work we're doing is about the future. And as I really love what Trustee Borthwick brought to us, the seeds that we're planting today are bringing us this diverse and resilient island communities of the future.

[0:05:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): And so I always ask that we keep that in mind as the work we're doing today is about affecting change and making sure that we are able to know who our community is, who makes up a diverse community and what kind of housing they need and getting our bylaws to drive the kind of housing that actually houses a diverse community.

[0:05:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): community. And with that, I'm going to turn the agenda or this part of the meeting over to

[0:05:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): Stephan Cermak, who I believe is going to walk us through a presentation.

[0:06:01] Voice 12: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you, everybody, for your time today. As you know,

[0:06:07] Voice 12: today is a special business meeting focusing on the Housing Options Toolkit.

[0:06:14] Voice 12: I'm new as a director, and so the direction of an RPC is an interesting one with a term change

[0:06:20] Voice 12: and new staff and so one of the most interesting things I've done is submit a agenda item which

[0:06:27] Voice 12: Trustee Patrick or Chair Patrick knows I had no memo or RFD request for decision and that actually

[0:06:34] Voice 12: was a conscious decision because I wanted you to feel unfettered in your decision making just

[0:06:40] Voice 12: discuss it well without staff sort of guiding you too much to have a free discussion and that was

[0:06:45] Voice 12: based on your last RPC meeting whereby you had that that discussion you seem to really value

[0:06:50] Voice 12: you that extra time. So today I am going to do a very brief overview presentation of the toolkit

[0:06:57] Voice 12: and strategy. I am going to invite especially Robert Kojima, RPM Kojima, to sort of plunk in

[0:07:06] Voice 12: if I miss something or what have you. I know when we do presentations sometimes you get tunnel vision

[0:07:12] Voice 12: and you skip what you wanted to say and stuff like that. So he may feel free to jump in. We also have

[0:07:18] Voice 12: planner chadwick who's been kind of the brains behind this a lot of it doing the work and

[0:07:23] Voice 12: applying it to the various ltcs and she'll be able to help after the presentation sort of put some

[0:07:29] Voice 12: flesh into the bones if if you have questions there and how we've applied the toolkit up to now

[0:07:35] Voice 12: i've also invited mark van bakel who is our manager of information services and he's going to

[0:07:42] Voice 12: do a brief walk through of where we are in the mapping methodology portion which again i've seen

[0:07:47] Voice 12: applied in a few LTCs. So I'm going to ask if you have any questions of clarity you need,

[0:07:54] Voice 12: any sort of I'm not making sense, or if we're not making sense, ask those questions. But any

[0:07:58] Voice 12: questions really about the toolkit strategy you want to dive into and analyze, I would recommend

[0:08:03] Voice 12: that we save it till the end so that you can really have a collective discussion as we go.

[0:08:10] Voice 12: And then at the end, if you notice, as I said, we have no memo, no RFD. I've talked to Chloe

[0:08:16] Voice 12: uh chloe your administrator and uh that was just my recommendation of course chair the chair will

[0:08:23] Voice 12: guide you as you wish um instead of capturing everybody's words just try to find where it is

[0:08:29] Voice 12: you're coming to consensus about and capture the main consensus points so with that i'm just going

[0:08:34] Voice 12: to uh is there any questions about how we're proceeding before i proceed no and i'll note uh

[0:08:40] Voice 12: Trustee Allen, we have bookmarks in there to bookmark each toolkit later on. So you can

[0:08:46] Voice 12: find your way through that. So just for fun. Okay, let's proceed.

[0:08:57] Voice 12: My mouse has disappeared. There we go. Okay, so quick start on the background,

[0:09:01] Voice 12: just from April to now. So we're not going to go any further back in time. In April,

[0:09:06] Voice 12: the Regional Planning Committee met. The Regional Planning Committee requested staff to proceed

[0:09:11] Voice 12: with next steps in advancing this toolkit and you allocated funds for housing needs gaps analysis

[0:09:18] Voice 12: which is currently underway with urban matters. You've asked for suitable land analysis to be

[0:09:25] Voice 12: developed which you'll be told about how that's advancing today with our GIS department and you

[0:09:30] Voice 12: also assign a few dollars to communications which we propose would happen after the September RPC

[0:09:37] Voice 12: RPC meeting, once the RPC gets much more clarity on the direction they'd like to proceed going

[0:09:42] Voice 12: into next year about housing related issues.

[0:09:46] Voice 12: The RPC also asked for business cases, which you should get at the next meeting in September

[0:09:51] Voice 12: about housing needs assessment, of course, that's informed by the gaps analysis.

[0:09:56] Voice 12: And this discussion will really help the main thing is your business case about housing

[0:10:01] Voice 12: options strategy and toolkit.

[0:10:03] Voice 12: toolkit. So hopefully this gives, this meeting is for you to think about what it is exactly you

[0:10:07] Voice 12: want. You don't really have to make decisions today, but then you come back in September and

[0:10:11] Voice 12: you're going to provide, this gives you time to really stew and think and tear apart that toolkit

[0:10:16] Voice 12: and strategy. So you formed a housing working group. The housing working group met a couple

[0:10:22] Voice 12: times and reviewed the work, gave some great feedback. It's one of my regrets on this agenda.

[0:10:26] Voice 12: I did not include that for you. I'm so sorry. I hope you discuss amongst yourselves and the members

[0:10:31] Voice 12: of the working group can inform the discussion today. Meanwhile, Trust Council had a meeting,

[0:10:38] Voice 12: you were all there, or most of you were there, passed some interesting resolutions. The strategic

[0:10:43] Voice 12: plan was solidified in an interim basis, the old strategic plan from 2018 to 2022,

[0:10:50] Voice 12: and it's been extended into the end of next fiscal. So that was approved with a few changes or a few

[0:10:58] Voice 12: amendments. One being that you're doing corporate planning, so that's fine. But more relevant to

[0:11:05] Voice 12: here is that prioritize strategic elements that support land use decision making. I propose that

[0:11:10] Voice 12: this toolkit is like zeros in right on that. But secondly, sort of more complicatedly, and this is

[0:11:19] Voice 12: your chair jumping in there, update initiatives related to housing that will develop healthy,

[0:11:25] Voice 12: resilient island communities by employing two lenses, mitigating and adapting to the effects

[0:11:30] Voice 12: of climate change, managing growth by cultivating equitable, inclusive and resilient communities

[0:11:35] Voice 12: and the natural environment. And I hope you all recognize where that came from.

[0:11:39] Voice 12: That largely came from your vision from the April 27th meeting. So your chair was championing the

[0:11:45] Voice 12: cause. So that's your background. A lot's happened is what I'm saying since April.

[0:11:51] Voice 12: So before you use the toolkit, of course, I can't see my notes now that I'm on a PowerPoint

[0:11:56] Voice 12: presentation, silly me. But the purpose of the toolkit is essentially a staff tool to help

[0:12:04] Voice 12: staff make recommendations to the LTC, but it's for the LTC and the community to get all the

[0:12:09] Voice 12: information in one place about how they can affect change. And so it's meant to be a brief,

[0:12:16] Voice 12: technical, I suppose you could laugh it's brief because it's quite huge, but it tries to be

[0:12:22] Voice 12: succinct it is very technical and it's meant to be a practical consolidation of all the documents

[0:12:28] Voice 12: it's meant to put all the thought of what you can do about housing into one spot um it by its nature

[0:12:36] Voice 12: and i can i think trust or planner chadwick could agree that it's its applicability will demonstrate

[0:12:42] Voice 12: its its if its use and its efficiency and its effectiveness and we can see it already being

[0:12:48] Voice 12: applied in various ways in various ltcs and in this time of change for so many new planners coming in

[0:12:54] Voice 12: and myself as a new director and so on and so forth having kind of a one-stop shop it's just

[0:12:59] Voice 12: a starting spot it's not meant to tell people what to do or anything it's just a really good baseline

[0:13:04] Voice 12: for people to begin to ask the questions of how can we address housing options and so from a staff

[0:13:10] Voice 12: perspective it's been really valuable exercise to apply the resources to create this tool

[0:13:18] Voice 12: The structure, you'll find that I found the structure a little confusing when I first

[0:13:22] Voice 12: got it.

[0:13:22] Voice 12: There's a lot of tools all over the place and what have you.

[0:13:25] Voice 12: So in thinking about the structure, I've sort of restructured in my mind for this presentation,

[0:13:30] Voice 12: but it's not quite presented in the order I think would be most ideal.

[0:13:34] Voice 12: And so this is just me summarizing what I think the tools are.

[0:13:40] Voice 12: And that is there's process toolkits.

[0:13:42] Voice 12: So you want as an LTC or a trustee in an LTC, if you're going to do a major OCP or land use bylaw project, you're going to want to know how do we get from A to B.

[0:13:52] Voice 12: Basically, how do we get from starting the project to adopting a bylaw that implements the changes that you want?

[0:13:57] Voice 12: And that's a standard process. That's all from the Local Government Act.

[0:14:02] Voice 12: And that's just, it's been designed to be better and clearer and better communication.

[0:14:07] Voice 12: communication. Of course, when you start that process, first thing you're going to ask staff

[0:14:11] Voice 12: and the community is for background information. So we have a whole wealth of background information

[0:14:16] Voice 12: we're going to talk about. Then it's a matter of applying that information and getting some

[0:14:22] Voice 12: background information about what's the current situation of development potential on your

[0:14:28] Voice 12: islands and what are some of the opportunities and constraints in the mapping exercise.

[0:14:33] Voice 12: so that's that's kind of that's where i like to nerd out and i'm hoping that you guys can see

[0:14:38] Voice 12: the applicability on that and then of course um we have some templates for how you can use a housing

[0:14:46] Voice 12: action plan right now that's being used for applying for funding to get some significant

[0:14:50] Voice 12: funding opportunities and so we've provided a template for that because that's as you know

[0:14:55] Voice 12: kind of how things are addressed in the industry of development of real estate development of

[0:15:01] Voice 12: of planning, it kind of changes over time.

[0:15:05] Voice 12: And so the housing action plan is the current mainstream way

[0:15:09] Voice 12: of addressing things.

[0:15:10] Voice 12: And if you have a template to do that,

[0:15:12] Voice 12: then you much quicker connect to provincial

[0:15:15] Voice 12: and federal funding,

[0:15:17] Voice 12: which is generally one of the main issues

[0:15:19] Voice 12: about getting affordable housing built.

[0:15:22] Voice 12: So there it is.

[0:15:23] Voice 12: Part two, which you don't have included,

[0:15:26] Voice 12: it was everything to do,

[0:15:27] Voice 12: not so much with LTC directing change,

[0:15:29] Voice 12: but when we get rezoning applications by societies and stuff like that,

[0:15:33] Voice 12: and we'll talk about that later.

[0:15:34] Voice 12: So that's your two main structures, LTC-driven projects,

[0:15:37] Voice 12: and then the second one would be rezoning applications brought to you.

[0:15:42] Voice 12: So I'm going to go by very briefly on each of those main bullets in part one.

[0:15:47] Voice 12: Starting with that, it's part one.

[0:15:50] Voice 12: So I broke that down into, as I said, process, background, mapping,

[0:15:54] Voice 12: and action plan and strategy templates.

[0:15:56] Voice 12: templates. And the process templates are, I'm sure you've all seen this by now, or if you haven't,

[0:16:01] Voice 12: if you're a new trustee and you haven't had an OCP or LUB project, you will. And that is a model

[0:16:06] Voice 12: work plan. Again, as I said, it's just really a timeline with all the key things that you have to

[0:16:12] Voice 12: do in terms of having a public hearing, referring bylaws to the executive committee or to the

[0:16:17] Voice 12: ministry, and then desired engagement along the way, if you wish at what time and place to do that

[0:16:23] Voice 12: along your work one of the first things you're going to do again is get a discussion paper you're

[0:16:29] Voice 12: going to ask well what bylaws do we have what don't we have what should we do what are the

[0:16:34] Voice 12: options those kind of stuff that's in your discussion paper and if you open up the

[0:16:38] Voice 12: discussion paper it itself draws on the variety of background tools if that makes sense so when

[0:16:45] Voice 12: you get a discussion paper i'll use denman ltc because i just saw it the other day their

[0:16:50] Voice 12: discussion paper has bibliography it has the profile to it it has what the existing uh lt's

[0:16:58] Voice 12: ocp and land use bylaws say and it has some options so the background the discussion paper

[0:17:04] Voice 12: draws on the background material that makes sense so the background material as presented

[0:17:10] Voice 12: there you can just see how it has a whole host of things the annotated bibliography

[0:17:15] Voice 12: this was updated as recently I guess as April and that was based on all the reports that staff could

[0:17:23] Voice 12: find related to housing and there's been at least 30 done throughout the organization over time this

[0:17:30] Voice 12: is each local trust area a lot of work has been done I think everybody understands the issue is

[0:17:36] Voice 12: that there's a crisis regarding housing especially workers and people are being displaced for

[0:17:44] Voice 12: a wealthy class moving in. So I think that's been repeated at nausea, but it's what's critical is

[0:17:52] Voice 12: that each community has had a different approach that they've asked the LTC to do. The housing

[0:17:57] Voice 12: profiles, of course, are different from each LTC to some degree. And so that's where you'll find

[0:18:01] Voice 12: each individual document. And that should be updated and maintained as we get more information

[0:18:06] Voice 12: over time. Housing profiles. That's just a really nice graphic for you. We'll look at a little bit

[0:18:13] Voice 12: later on but uh housing profile housing profiles are a way to summarize your housing needs

[0:18:19] Voice 12: assessment uh housing roles and responsibilities i'm going to show you pictures of these in a

[0:18:25] Voice 12: second and then baseline reports etc you know what i'm going to go on to my next slides i'll discuss

[0:18:33] Voice 12: each of these main areas you still with me i feel like now i'm talking in a vacuum so thanks okay

[0:18:40] Voice 12: Okay. So let's talk about process templates. As I just said, there's one slide ahead of myself.

[0:18:46] Voice 12: So you're going to get familiar with these things. I have just a snippet of what the

[0:18:51] Voice 12: major housing project work plan looks like. I honestly don't like this format. I prefer more

[0:18:56] Voice 12: of a Gantt chart, if you know what I mean. It's more of a grid turned sideways and you can see

[0:19:01] Voice 12: the months at top and then the sort of sliding scale things. However, a table works just as well.

[0:19:06] Voice 12: it conveys the same information and it's easy enough to do and as i just said the discussion

[0:19:11] Voice 12: paper draws on all these other tools and i and and i want to emphasize that this toolkit provides

[0:19:18] Voice 12: a template for staff to do that much more quicker much more effective and heck it might even allow

[0:19:23] Voice 12: your community members who who want to get involved to uh to start taking tinkering with

[0:19:28] Voice 12: that themselves the background information as i said i just threw an example of thetis being up

[0:19:36] Voice 12: there i think that was one of the more recent housing profiles again this was done by the

[0:19:41] Voice 12: great work of planner chadwick along with our co-op student we've got an amazing co-op student

[0:19:48] Voice 12: taryn platter i believe or plater again super bright super fast and able to put that put

[0:19:55] Voice 12: together this information into a very easy to digest way kind of an infographic way

[0:20:00] Voice 12: we talked about the annotated bibliography the housing profile

[0:20:04] Voice 12: profile. Tool 10 here, I've got a picture of it. It really, it's surprising when we

[0:20:11] Voice 12: talk about housing, how many people or how many trustees really need to be refreshed

[0:20:15] Voice 12: on this. We can really nerd out or nerd out. Hold on a sec, Mark, we don't need you yet,

[0:20:21] Voice 12: but there you go. It's meant to kind of show the scale of who has the most impact and responsibility

[0:20:31] Voice 12: for more towards affordable housing but housing options so you can see provincial government is

[0:20:37] Voice 12: the big one with a few bullets about why that is scaling down to islands trust is in the middle

[0:20:42] Voice 12: now that's not to say the islands trust has no role they absolutely have a critical role as we

[0:20:46] Voice 12: all understand land use planning is kind of a critical pivot point but it all happens in a

[0:20:53] Voice 12: spectrum and you need to coordinate with all these respective bodies to make it happen

[0:20:57] Voice 12: Your number one job is to set the plate, create the policies and the land use bylaws that allow development to happen.

[0:21:05] Voice 12: And then a lot of the actual development comes from other sources.

[0:21:10] Voice 12: But we can talk about that more if you wish when you want a deep dive.

[0:21:16] Voice 12: Updated house line baseline report. I wouldn't mind pausing on that for a second.

[0:21:21] Voice 12: That Tool 8 is big.

[0:21:24] Voice 12: big. What it does is it goes to each local trust area, it looks at all your OCP policies,

[0:21:32] Voice 12: it looks at your land use bylaws, it lists them to show whomever's looking what your

[0:21:38] Voice 12: respective policies and regulations are regarding housing. It also lists all the known community

[0:21:48] Voice 12: supported affordable housing development applications that have come through. All the ones that

[0:21:54] Voice 12: needed housing needs, needs assessments or reports, pardon me. And it lists as much as we could find

[0:22:00] Voice 12: about those things. And so you'll see quite a healthy list and a lot of places that we've

[0:22:05] Voice 12: learned lessons. And I can tell you as being the regional planning manager in Salt Spring Island

[0:22:10] Voice 12: for seven years and a planner there for how many years before that, we had a lot of applications

[0:22:15] Voice 12: in my time during there and we learned a lot of lessons. And I'm happy to talk about that more

[0:22:21] Voice 12: later, but I would think the most critical thing we learned is that people trying to develop

[0:22:29] Voice 12: affordable housing really need help. The number one thing that they look at is financing rules.

[0:22:37] Voice 12: They're usually doing jumping through hoops with BC Housing or similar finance providers.

[0:22:42] Voice 12: And those timelines generally don't match with the legislative requirements of LTC to consider

[0:22:48] Voice 12: or bylaws and stuff like that so how can we help we've learned a few tricks to that ways to get a

[0:22:53] Voice 12: little better and this is one of the purposes of the toolkit so we're not trying to reinvent the

[0:22:57] Voice 12: wheel every time we're trying to get there quicker faster so that they can be better prepared and we

[0:23:01] Voice 12: can respond in a much more meaningful quicker timeline so and then zoning and policy options

[0:23:07] Voice 12: tool three that from our perspective is meant to be your complete menu of options that we were able

[0:23:14] Voice 12: able to find over time that have been used, that are being used across British Columbia,

[0:23:19] Voice 12: the best practices we could find in whatever document you can imagine. That's the planning

[0:23:25] Voice 12: industry in British Columbia. Does that have everything? Nothing you write is ever complete.

[0:23:30] Voice 12: So I won't pretend that it's exhaustive, but it's darn close. If you want to do something such as

[0:23:36] Voice 12: create a little hamlet or intentional community, you've got it in there. If you want to create

[0:23:41] Voice 12: you know accessory dwelling units it's in there even contemplating how to get tiny homes

[0:23:48] Voice 12: john is in there so yeah so that for us it's almost like that's the thing we want the menu

[0:23:55] Voice 12: for you the ltcs the trustees and the community to really dive into choose from the menu and from

[0:24:01] Voice 12: that menu make your relative ocp and luv amendments mapping tools i saw mark i think it's time for

[0:24:11] Voice 12: mark to come back um we have two two mapping products going on right now is uh we have a

[0:24:17] Voice 12: build out map which is basically uh what is the zoning what does the land use bylaw say for the

[0:24:24] Voice 12: amount of potential stuff and you'll

[0:24:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): need to send him an email according to chat to get him back

[0:24:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): really

[0:24:29] Voice 12: that's awesome okay i

[0:24:32] Voice 2: sent him an email so don't worry about that thank

[0:24:35] Voice 12: you very much

[0:24:35] Voice 12: gloria appreciate that um and then so that's the build out analysis that's pretty straightforward

[0:24:40] Voice 12: forward math although i've seen controversy in the past when you when you do that and the second

[0:24:45] Voice 12: thing is a suitable land analysis and these are not meant for us to be creating all these maps

[0:24:51] Voice 12: what we're trying to do is create a standard method methodology in the organization as a

[0:24:56] Voice 12: starting place it's not meant to be the beat all end all because there's so many different sources

[0:25:00] Voice 12: of data you could input what it's meant to be is when when gabriola comes to us asking for hey

[0:25:07] Voice 12: hey, what's the build-up potential

[0:25:08] Voice 12: and where is a suitable place to put it,

[0:25:11] Voice 12: we can answer with a methodology

[0:25:13] Voice 12: and we can sort of at least defend the base of information.

[0:25:19] Voice 12: You should be able to weight

[0:25:20] Voice 12: according to each community's desire,

[0:25:23] Voice 12: how to weight each variable,

[0:25:25] Voice 12: as well as you should be able

[0:25:26] Voice 12: to eventually input other variables.

[0:25:28] Voice 12: But for the time being, it's meant to be,

[0:25:31] Voice 12: what's all the information we have available

[0:25:32] Voice 12: at our fingertips to help create opportunities

[0:25:36] Voice 12: and constraints map of where development can go and that is including with the

[0:25:41] Voice 12: islands trust concern see data mapping about everything from you know protected

[0:25:46] Voice 12: species and where you know in all our protected areas so it's meant to be a

[0:25:49] Voice 12: comprehensive one I see a question trustee Elliott I'm sorry thanks

[0:25:56] Voice 17: so a

[0:25:57] Voice 17: question about the data for the mapping do we have mmm is it going to be all

[0:26:05] Voice 17: all in-house data that's generated either from consultants doing work for the Conservancy,

[0:26:12] Voice 17: for instance, or are we going to have to, you know, contract and do additional layers of mapping,

[0:26:19] Voice 17: sort of, and maybe you'll cover this later on, so I'm just kind of, what's the status and the

[0:26:25] Voice 17: relevancy of the data that we have right now to be applied in this sort of layered mapping

[0:26:29] Voice 17: that we're looking forward to great

[0:26:33] Voice 12: question and through the chair the it is meant to be

[0:26:37] Voice 12: the first phase of this mapping is meant to be everything we can get our fingertips on

[0:26:40] Voice 12: right now in-house so it's it's that's what it's meant to start as where it goes in the future i

[0:26:47] Voice 12: think it's a great point of discussion what data is missing i know i've had several conversations

[0:26:52] Voice 12: with the chair over time about what data it needs but you know how do we invest that as a regional

[0:26:59] Voice 12: approach or is that a local trust committee approach i'm not sure but i'm we've got uh mark

[0:27:04] Voice 12: here to um talk more about the methodologies that uh him and his team have been developing uh i

[0:27:11] Voice 12: think i believe with robert kojima in the build out and the suitable land analysis you take that

[0:27:16] Voice 12: over mark

[0:27:16] Voice 11: sure thanks stefan and thank you and

[0:27:19] Voice 11: um thanks everybody for giving me a chance to bring

[0:27:22] Voice 11: you up to date so um i don't know what i just caught the end of that as stefan was describing

[0:27:29] Voice 11: sort of the data requirements and the in-house aspect of this so i'll just

[0:27:36] Voice 11: take it from there we're working on a model and i don't know if anybody recalls this from

[0:27:43] Voice 11: previous work with the conservancy but we developed a product called land advisor

[0:27:47] Voice 11: which, and let me try to get this off my tongue without stumbling too much multi criteria hierarchical model weighted model. And so we're taking the same approach, where we were basically cleaning and prepping our data and defining the relative importance

[0:28:08] Voice 11: of all those data sets and combining them.

[0:28:11] Voice 11: It's a pretty classic suitability analysis

[0:28:14] Voice 11: in terms of GIS analysis,

[0:28:18] Voice 11: but we basically were building in a flexibility into it.

[0:28:24] Voice 11: So a standard approach would just be to define everything,

[0:28:28] Voice 11: run the model and interpret the results.

[0:28:31] Voice 11: And what we're doing is like we did with Land Advisor

[0:28:34] Voice 11: is we're developing the capacity to tweak the model.

[0:28:40] Voice 11: So we'll be delivering in the final methodology

[0:28:42] Voice 11: and interface, which will allow staff and trustees

[0:28:47] Voice 11: to apply adjusted weights

[0:28:50] Voice 11: to essentially ground truth the model.

[0:28:55] Voice 11: And that's our approach so far.

[0:28:57] Voice 11: So our intention is to, with Robert's help,

[0:29:01] Voice 11: explore the the sensitivity the model in using north pender because of his familiarity with

[0:29:09] Voice 11: north pender we're going to solidify the methodology so clearly describe so we have

[0:29:17] Voice 11: a fully reproducible method and interpretable method test it in north pender and then proceed

[0:29:25] Voice 11: to apply it to the other islands salt spring denman gabriola and i think there was talk about

[0:29:33] Voice 11: possibly hornby so um where we're at at this point is you know we've we've essentially gutted land

[0:29:40] Voice 11: advisor the itc tool to extract the framework and then we're starting to build up from the

[0:29:46] Voice 11: foundation again so using the same foundation foundational structure we're now doing data

[0:29:53] Voice 11: processing on the preliminary layers or data sets and we've

[0:30:00] Voice 11: just completed the suitability which is arguably or sorry the subdivision potential which is

[0:30:06] Voice 11: arguably one of the contributing layers so that methodology is a little bit more hands-on so

[0:30:11] Voice 11: barb dashwood who's probably done more sub potential maps than anybody in the province

[0:30:19] Voice 11: it have you know is on board right now as part of a as part of this team and she has done the

[0:30:26] Voice 11: initial processing and working with the island planners to refine the initial subdivision

[0:30:32] Voice 11: potential maps so it's more of a get to know the the island exercise the sub pots portion

[0:30:40] Voice 11: where we do the actual algorithm where we say what are the additional subdivisions that are

[0:30:46] Voice 11: incorporated into the bylaw we then go back to the island planner and identify the exceptions

[0:30:51] Voice 11: exceptions on the island so there's a good deal of exceptions in different communities and and

[0:30:56] Voice 11: different strata and you know what is our approach to parks and protected areas and how do we address

[0:31:02] Voice 11: vacant land you know find the exclusion zones find the exceptions incorporate that into the data so

[0:31:09] Voice 11: that's um that's a methodology methodology that's been defined we've done it over and over but we've

[0:31:15] Voice 11: We've taken the time now to define the methodology, so it's a reproducible, and then that'll be

[0:31:22] Voice 11: incorporated into the bigger suitability tool, and so as far as what we've managed to process

[0:31:31] Voice 11: to date with the bigger suitability tool is we have done road proximity.

[0:31:39] Voice 11: We've essentially exhausted the road portions like the suitability, you know, wanting to be nearer, larger corridors or transportation corridors.

[0:31:51] Voice 11: We've defined, we've been working on, what's the term I'm stumbling here on the term, having a little brain moment, my early senior moments.

[0:32:02] Voice 11: um it's the the build out so it's the the number of accessory buildings or buildings on the on

[0:32:11] Voice 11: the properties so we've got that one in process and we're doing shoreline and we've got we're

[0:32:18] Voice 11: inheriting the sensitive ecosystem approach that we did with land advisor from itc so we we have a

[0:32:26] Voice 11: good we have a good foundation of data sets right now and we're using jason human provided us with

[0:32:32] Voice 11: a long long list of potential data sets to explore and so i don't know we're about 25 into that list

[0:32:41] Voice 11: so i think we're we're well on our way we've we're over the the initial hump of defining

[0:32:47] Voice 11: the foundational um approach the structural approach to the code and and getting the

[0:32:53] Voice 11: suitability um done and a few of the preliminary uh layers processed so i think it's it's reasonable

[0:33:00] Voice 11: to expect that with August in mind which is traditionally Swiss cheese as far as staffing goes

[0:33:10] Voice 11: it's reasonable to expect that you know within the next four weeks of of staff resources whether

[0:33:17] Voice 11: that I'm not exactly sure if I'm going to get that through August or if it's going to stretch

[0:33:21] Voice 11: into middle September that we'll have a preliminary to look at sort of that preliminary we can start

[0:33:29] Voice 11: start playing with the numbers. So we'll provide, you know, a visual representation of the model

[0:33:37] Voice 11: with the initial weights. And then with the interface, you'll be able to go in and play

[0:33:44] Voice 11: with those. So yeah, I don't see any major hurdles. I think we're in good shape. Do you

[0:33:50] Voice 11: guys have any questions for me? Laura looks like she's looking for her mute button.

[0:34:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): i am does anyone else have questions i know i have just one um you just gave us sort of an idea

[0:34:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): of the time scale of what you're working on and the intent as as a committee would we have the

[0:34:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): opportunity to really see that first map and and dive maybe deeper into the choices that were made

[0:34:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): and understanding of it before we go and apply it to other islands absolutely

[0:34:22] Voice 11: like what i my

[0:34:24] Voice 11: my intention would be to, to present that model and to present the methodology and present the

[0:34:30] Voice 11: preliminary results. And, and really as a, it's almost a training exercise, right? To get you to

[0:34:37] Voice 11: familiarize yourself with the approach. So not a complicated approach. It looks complicated when

[0:34:42] Voice 11: you put it on paper, but it's arguably very simple. So I would, my intent is to simplify it

[0:34:47] Voice 11: and make it accessible.

[0:34:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): I guess, were there any other questions? Was it just me? I see another,

[0:34:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): there we go um

[0:35:00] Voice 17: yeah so and then what would be the opportunity for ground truthing that because

[0:35:05] Voice 17: there's been so much development and so much change so some of the data that

[0:35:09] Voice 17: might we might be inputting you know how fresh is it and so if we're talking about future

[0:35:15] Voice 17: subdivision potential and what's allowed in the ocps um but then looking on the ground um

[0:35:22] Voice 17: what stage would that come at well

[0:35:25] Voice 11: the suitability or sorry I keep um subbing in the wrong name for

[0:35:29] Voice 11: that so the subdivision potential the subdivision potential is the primary sort of ground truth

[0:35:35] Voice 11: because you know there's there's I'm not that familiar with all the the development projects

[0:35:42] Voice 11: and and the history of the on the various islands that's where Robert comes in um where and that's

[0:35:48] Voice 11: That was our decision to use North Pender because he has a long history with the island.

[0:35:53] Voice 11: So we can ground truth using Robert's experience, so the island planner, and that would be applied for each island.

[0:36:01] Voice 11: It's a hands-on collaborative effort to clarify those exceptions and define that and ground truth that portion of the model.

[0:36:10] Voice 11: the rest of the model relies heavily on the data itself and our data is up to date as we can get it

[0:36:20] Voice 11: so we have like when it comes to things like roads we have regular deliveries when it comes to from

[0:36:27] Voice 11: digital road atlas in the province our parcels data is two weeks out tops today

[0:36:33] Voice 11: day our assessment data is it sometimes stretches into two weeks but it's typically two weeks

[0:36:43] Voice 11: and I you know I think we do a very good job of keeping the data our foundational data sets up

[0:36:50] Voice 11: to date we're better than we've ever been as far as BC assessment and and parcel map BC we've never

[0:36:57] Voice 11: been this current um and then i would say everything else is is part of our regular

[0:37:04] Voice 11: maintenance and assurance that it's it's up to date so there shouldn't be any surprises tem

[0:37:09] Voice 11: like the terrestrial ecosystem mapping it's it's not fresh there's definitely been changes on the

[0:37:17] Voice 11: ground that is a consideration and there's room for ground truthing of that of course

[0:37:22] Voice 11: so that's again where the island planner comes in and they'll be able to look at that data

[0:37:27] Voice 11: you know with a rather than an algorithm they can look at that data and interp and do a you

[0:37:37] Voice 11: know a qualitative interpretation so most of what we're doing is quantitative but the island planner

[0:37:42] Voice 11: comes in to do the qualitative to say that's that's not correct anymore because our when it

[0:37:48] Voice 11: comes to the ecosystem data we're certainly some of the projects are are getting getting along in

[0:37:57] Voice 11: the tooth they're very expensive products so they're not they're not a regular renewal but we

[0:38:03] Voice 11: have we have relatively current ortho photos we can acquire for the purposes of review from other

[0:38:09] Voice 11: agencies when we need them i think what i think with the island planner help we can we can do a

[0:38:15] Voice 11: pretty good job of addressing any data currency issues that pop up and

[0:38:23] Voice 12: through the chair if i may

[0:38:24] Voice 12: to add that the emphasis would be then through

[0:38:30] Voice 12: answering those questions, Trustee Elliott, through the

[0:38:32] Voice 12: relative LTCs working on the projects that need the answer. So it would be

[0:38:36] Voice 12: sort of a part of the process regardless. And that's what we're trying to do is build

[0:38:40] Voice 12: that methodology so it's replicable. And then you can

[0:38:44] Voice 12: ask those questions as you go along, especially in your respective LTCs.

[0:38:48] Voice 11: Yeah. And the nice part about this too is that this model

[0:38:52] Voice 11: is is arguably not a regional model regional models are challenging like if you choose a

[0:38:58] Voice 11: region like the vancouver island or the lower mainland or british columbia that's challenging

[0:39:05] Voice 11: to capture and catch the exceptions to catch you know data currency issues but we're dealing with

[0:39:12] Voice 11: we're doing a very localized model um and i think i think with the island the island planner

[0:39:18] Voice 11: planner, you know, with their qualitative, with their qualitative review will be in good shape.

[0:39:24] Voice 11: This is not, no model is perfect. Every model, a good thing to remind everybody that a model is

[0:39:32] Voice 11: only as good as that ground truthing. It's an approximation. It's the best you can with the

[0:39:37] Voice 11: data that you have. And then you go back to the, to the people and you use the, that, that knowledge

[0:39:45] Voice 11: to assess it and then you leverage what you can from it trustee Graham yeah

[0:39:54] Voice 5: thank you um just

[0:39:56] Voice 5: speaking from Demmon you know we we haven't had an island planner for a while and and the regional

[0:40:00] Voice 5: regional planning manager is doing a great job but she doesn't really have any history

[0:40:05] Voice 5: but we do have on on most islands and certainly on on Demmon a very knowledgeable um conservation

[0:40:11] Voice 5: group and and they've done their own mapping for years and years and and are continually

[0:40:16] Voice 5: ground truthing because with their with their trail work and their um um ecosystem work so

[0:40:22] Voice 5: i mean that that would be another uh way to go for islands that don't have a planner who has

[0:40:28] Voice 5: the history that robert has with with north pender

[0:40:31] Voice 11: absolutely yeah it's just a matter it's a matter

[0:40:36] Voice 11: of finding that knowledge and that experience for sure and providing that level of review but again

[0:40:44] Voice 11: i think these are denman you know denman's small enough that that's not gonna i don't think that's

[0:40:50] Voice 11: i don't think i don't stefan you could probably speak to this better but i think we do have

[0:40:54] Voice 11: i think we have some institute we would have the institutional knowledge and experience for

[0:41:00] Voice 11: for denman in the history even just putting barb dashwood who's been here for i think it's 28 years

[0:41:05] Voice 11: now. Barb has that experience probably enough to say what's correct and what's not correct

[0:41:13] Voice 11: or what's questionable and such.

[0:41:16] Voice 12: I have learned not to speak for Denman.

[0:41:23] Voice 12: Yeah. So thank you again through the chair. I think what Mark is saying is that we have

[0:41:29] Voice 12: technical information that's as up to date as possible and the ground truthing, definitely

[0:41:34] Voice 12: the people who live there and the most suitable people who are invested in that will be able to

[0:41:38] Voice 12: verify it but i also want to emphasize that i don't think that we're developing methodology

[0:41:44] Voice 12: and again we're not necessarily developing mapping for everybody what we're trying to do

[0:41:48] Voice 12: is and you'll get this to you at a future rpc is to be able to assess that methodology

[0:41:54] Voice 12: critique it evaluate it and we can respond to that and then i think personally the only it's logical

[0:42:02] Voice 12: to use that methodology for those LTCs

[0:42:06] Voice 12: that are engaged in projects where it's useful.

[0:42:09] Voice 12: So we may not be producing maps for, say, Gambier Island.

[0:42:13] Voice 12: Actually, maybe we will for Gambier if they ask for it.

[0:42:14] Voice 12: But for an island, I don't think Thetis is working on anything.

[0:42:17] Voice 12: Nope, Saterna. I'm going Saterna.

[0:42:19] Voice 12: And so for an island that's not working on it.

[0:42:22] Voice 12: So if that makes sense.

[0:42:24] Voice 12: So when it comes time to review your work plan

[0:42:28] Voice 12: and your background materials, including a mapping,

[0:42:31] Voice 12: thing. That's the time to then critique. And it's also the time for the relative relevant

[0:42:36] Voice 12: LTC and the community through the community to wait those variables because that in a

[0:42:42] Voice 12: sense can manipulate the data. And then in the end, I think it's going to give you an

[0:42:47] Voice 12: answer that it's modeled, but it may not actually be relevant on the ground because you're going

[0:42:52] Voice 12: to find that, you know, Joe or Jane X has a piece of property they want to develop and

[0:42:56] Voice 12: and it's not in the map, but it's what's working, right?

[0:42:59] Voice 12: So, yeah, just keep that on mind.

[0:43:02] Voice 12: A model is just a model.

[0:43:07] Voice 8: All right.

[0:43:11] Voice 12: Any further questions?

[0:43:13] Voice 12: Mark is going to disappear.

[0:43:18] Voice 12: All right.

[0:43:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think we'll probably discuss the tool later as we get to it in its sequence here.

[0:43:24] Voice 11: All right.

[0:43:25] Voice 11: Fantastic.

[0:43:25] Voice 11: Thank you, Mark.

[0:43:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): Look

[0:43:26] Voice 11: forward to that.

[0:43:27] Voice 11: Have a great meeting.

[0:43:28] Voice 11: Bye-bye.

[0:43:32] Voice 12: Okay, Matt.

[0:43:32] Voice 12: I'm sure I'll just proceed.

[0:43:34] Voice 12: Excellent.

[0:43:36] Voice 12: Okay, so I must say about those tools,

[0:43:38] Voice 12: I was kind of shocked as director that we just didn't even have those.

[0:43:42] Voice 12: We could sort of produce those.

[0:43:44] Voice 12: So I'm excited that that baseline information,

[0:43:46] Voice 12: it will be eventually available to all LTCs at a request.

[0:43:50] Voice 12: So that's good.

[0:43:51] Voice 12: That's good baseline data in my mind.

[0:43:54] Voice 12: Okay, so moving on to the final section of part one of your toolkit

[0:43:59] Voice 12: are the last two things is a housing action plan

[0:44:02] Voice 12: or local housing option strategy template.

[0:44:06] Voice 12: And as we briefly spoke about in that tool six,

[0:44:08] Voice 12: this is kind of what your work program is developing up to and this is what um the

[0:44:16] Voice 12: background information is in the mapping is now you're developing a plan at the local trust area

[0:44:21] Voice 12: and it's this housing strategy or housing action plan wasn't sure what to call it we've got we have

[0:44:27] Voice 12: a template for that based on the current work that's going on sorry i saw it um sure ex officio

[0:44:35] Voice 12: Luckum's hand up. Should I pause for that or no? Okay. So that's what that is. Just the whole point

[0:44:42] Voice 12: here is just to say that we have a template. Again, it makes it a lot easier for other LTCs

[0:44:47] Voice 12: asking for it. I believe there's at least three, if not four LTCs that are working down this similar

[0:44:52] Voice 12: path. So you can see that we've already been applying it to various places. So part two,

[0:44:58] Voice 12: which is not included in your package, but was included in your April package was these potential

[0:45:04] Voice 12: Potential additional tools. And the reason why they're called potential additional tools is because no work has been done in this area.

[0:45:10] Voice 12: Part one, everything that's relevant to LTC driven projects trying to make change is either complete or being completed and being worked on, such as what Mark just talked about.

[0:45:22] Voice 12: Here, we haven't done any work.

[0:45:25] Voice 12: So, this was the list of items I was showing to you before. We do have housing agreement templates. I believe we have three different varieties.

[0:45:32] Voice 12: varieties. They could use an update based on what I talked about earlier that the world

[0:45:37] Voice 12: of financing affordable housing projects has changed a lot in the last few years and I

[0:45:44] Voice 12: imagine it will continue to change as more and more senior governments invest in that.

[0:45:47] Voice 12: So that could use a refresh. And the terms of reference template, does everybody know

[0:45:54] Voice 12: what I'm talking about when I talk about the terms of reference template? Okay, I'm going

[0:45:57] Voice 12: going to pause there, sort of. So for those of you that have a development approval information

[0:46:03] Voice 12: bylaw at your respective local trust committee, those development approval information bylaws

[0:46:08] Voice 12: are designed such that when an applicant comes to the LTC, they have a predictable

[0:46:15] Voice 12: amount of information that they have to provide and they're not hit with any surprises.

[0:46:20] Voice 12: And that increased predictability and confidence in the process allows them to proceed, right,

[0:46:26] Voice 12: right, from a developer's perspective. They hate being hit by surprises. It also allows the LTCs

[0:46:30] Voice 12: to require, as opposed to just request, information. So if you don't have a development

[0:46:36] Voice 12: approval information bylaw, you can request information, but the applicant doesn't have

[0:46:40] Voice 12: to provide it. You can equally say, well, thanks, but no thanks, goodbye. However, if you have a

[0:46:46] Voice 12: development approval information bylaw, the applicant must provide that information. So

[0:46:51] Voice 12: So it's a useful bylaw for all parties involved.

[0:46:54] Voice 12: In those bylaws, it's a procedural bylaw or administrative bylaw, it's what we call a

[0:47:00] Voice 12: terms of reference.

[0:47:02] Voice 12: So if an applicant applies to rezone a property for, let's say, affordable housing, the planner

[0:47:08] Voice 12: provides a terms of reference.

[0:47:11] Voice 12: And that terms of reference lists all the reports that are required for an applicant

[0:47:16] Voice 12: to do.

[0:47:17] Voice 12: It's a very critical step in the application process.

[0:47:19] Voice 12: us. And that terms of reference is based on, of course, the respective OCP. And it says,

[0:47:25] Voice 12: you know, you need to scour the relevant official community plan. And it says you need

[0:47:29] Voice 12: to demonstrate sufficient water, sufficient sewer, et cetera. So that's the planner doing the work.

[0:47:36] Voice 12: It has to be, that terms of reference has to be provided in a prescriptive timeline,

[0:47:40] Voice 12: usually 30 business days. And then the applicant goes away and has to produce those works before

[0:47:46] Voice 12: before they come to the local trust committee.

[0:47:49] Voice 12: So the terms of reference though,

[0:47:51] Voice 12: is a bit of a struggle sometimes for a planner,

[0:47:53] Voice 12: because you have to evaluate the application,

[0:47:55] Voice 12: you have to evaluate the OCP,

[0:47:56] Voice 12: and then you have to require information,

[0:47:59] Voice 12: and it has to meet a certain standard,

[0:48:01] Voice 12: has to be done by professional people,

[0:48:03] Voice 12: and has to be done to a certain, as I say, standard.

[0:48:06] Voice 12: So what this proposal here is in this tool

[0:48:08] Voice 12: is that we make that template a little more standard,

[0:48:14] Voice 12: I guess, across the region, and we evaluate that.

[0:48:16] Voice 12: But that's a lot of work because each LTC that has the DAI bylaw, it requires different things.

[0:48:23] Voice 12: So anyways, I hope you understand a little bit better what a Terms of Reference template is.

[0:48:28] Voice 12: Water Management Plan template, we really found that this was critical,

[0:48:32] Voice 12: and especially in our setting in the local trust areas, water being such a crucial element to development.

[0:48:39] Voice 12: And there's different ways to, there's one thing to ask, do you have enough water?

[0:48:44] Voice 12: But it's another thing to ask, how are you going to manage that?

[0:48:46] Voice 12: were various sources we had uh one of the improvement districts on salt spring island

[0:48:51] Voice 12: stepped and said we'll provide you water for emergency so you've got the pipes to hook up

[0:48:56] Voice 12: to put out any fires but you can't use that for drinking or flushing toilets and so they had to

[0:49:01] Voice 12: provide water from a different place so that it was actually a successful formula for the project

[0:49:05] Voice 12: it kind of really is what made the project proceed but it was hard to get there so those types of

[0:49:10] Voice 12: water management plans if we have a template could help other places looking for because I'm sure all

[0:49:16] Voice 12: of you have a story about an applicant who's having a hard time proving water because water

[0:49:21] Voice 12: on a multi-family development is very difficult to get I won't go any further into that proof of

[0:49:28] Voice 12: water guide really falls under that so I'm not sure that it needs to be two separate things

[0:49:33] Voice 12: and of course application process guide we have an application process guide but it might be worth

[0:49:39] Voice 12: considering um making one very specific to affordable housing with those constraints

[0:49:44] Voice 12: and opportunities we talked about before being recognizing from the applicant's perspective

[0:49:49] Voice 12: the need to meet certain timelines especially for getting finance requirements because they

[0:49:53] Voice 12: usually are in quite a frenzy trying to meet those timelines and they can get very upset

[0:49:58] Voice 12: thinking staff are being slow or obstructive and we're just going as fast as we can and a

[0:50:04] Voice 12: The pre-development cost chart, I must say personally, this is the hardest one to do.

[0:50:09] Voice 12: This is more like due diligence by the applicants themselves, but we've heard from applicants

[0:50:13] Voice 12: that they would like this, so therefore it's included in your template.

[0:50:16] Voice 12: But all of these things will require further resources and all of these things should be

[0:50:20] Voice 12: contemplated in September by the RPC when we present business cases and you can debate

[0:50:26] Voice 12: the merits of proceeding with that.

[0:50:28] Voice 12: It is a good time for me to tell you all the work that's being done on the regional planning

[0:50:33] Voice 12: planning team, or pardon me, on the regional planning committee is being done by the regional

[0:50:38] Voice 12: planning team. And the regional planning team consists of three island planners, myself,

[0:50:44] Voice 12: and a manager overseeing Robert Kojima. No, they're not. Robert is the manager overseeing

[0:50:50] Voice 12: the work of the planners. My apologies, Robert. And there's no actual dedicated planner or

[0:50:57] Voice 12: staff really doing the work of RPC. This is one of the weird quirks I've noticed coming in as a

[0:51:03] Voice 12: director. So historically, most of the work has been done by contracting people to do various

[0:51:09] Voice 12: reports for this committee. And then you sort of decide what to do with it. What we're trying to do

[0:51:16] Voice 12: is leverage using the regional planning team to do some of this work. And therefore, it's made

[0:51:20] Voice 12: most sense to use that team to take the work of the regional committee that's most valuable to

[0:51:24] Voice 12: the various local trust communities doing projects and harmonize it so how can we help as a region

[0:51:29] Voice 12: affect those local areas advancing project work i hope that makes sense makes sense in my head

[0:51:35] Voice 12: but what we're finding is we lost that extra resource of having uh jason yeomans our planner

[0:51:41] Voice 12: with us and so we're we have some extra resources coming to us in september to help us advance some

[0:51:47] Voice 12: of this of this work but it's a constant challenge to find dedicated resources to help advance

[0:51:53] Voice 12: regional committee regional planning committee work and hence why i put it here is we haven't

[0:52:01] Voice 12: advanced this if we're going to advance it we need a sophisticated business case to make sure

[0:52:05] Voice 12: we have those resources and because if we use the regional planning team to do this work then

[0:52:10] Voice 12: they're not going to be doing the the project work of the local trust committees and my experience is

[0:52:15] Voice 12: that the most value is at that level that's that's where people want to do but we still have to find

[0:52:20] Voice 12: ways to get the regional planning committee work doing, because I think you work best as an entire

[0:52:26] Voice 12: entity. However, point is, we're going to need to secure resources for that. Did you want to say

[0:52:31] Voice 12: something, Trustee Patrick? I see you. Well, I

[0:52:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): would encourage perhaps as you're preparing

[0:52:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): and thinking, I know you just said you don't have any resources, but as you're preparing for

[0:52:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): for the business case, you know, Salt Spring, with all its quirks and things, is somewhat mature

[0:52:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): in its place of larger projects, where I look at, you know, Denman and Gabriola and Galliano,

[0:53:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): they're even far more complex than Salt Spring. And we have some very advanced projects that are

[0:53:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): on those islands and i think getting the feedback from those individuals might help you know help

[0:53:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): help you think about um you know what is how this can be done better um and and what where some of

[0:53:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): the hang-ups are okay

[0:53:27] Voice 12: i think that's great we do have uh the island planners from salt spring

[0:53:31] Voice 12: on the regional planning team at least we have one their goal is to have one full-time equivalent

[0:53:36] Voice 12: island planner from each office on the regional planning team so salt spring forms a part of that

[0:53:42] Voice 12: but that's good feedback and I'll use it and I'll bring it back to the regional planning team to

[0:53:46] Voice 12: help inform and that's the whole point about the regional planning team is to make sure that

[0:53:49] Voice 12: and I am seeing it happen that we're not like each island is talking to each other through the staff

[0:53:56] Voice 12: and then we're applying the resources to the most efficient way possible so okay so next up again

[0:54:04] Voice 12: this is my I apologize for not doing a memo or rfd I just thought I was being brave and perhaps

[0:54:11] Voice 12: i was being silly and you don't have this included in your agenda package you did have it in your

[0:54:16] Voice 12: april package sorry you're not meant to read all that it's just meant to demonstrate the information

[0:54:21] Voice 12: you had the housing options strategy although it wasn't called this option strategy it was just

[0:54:27] Voice 12: called the housing strategy we're using we used options um i think just based on communications

[0:54:31] Voice 12: we were hearing this was sort of talked about with the housing with the working group of rpc

[0:54:37] Voice 12: and really it's just meant to be asked the question do we lobby trust council or do you

[0:54:45] Voice 12: lobby trust council for a regional wide an island's trust wide housing strategy and if so

[0:54:52] Voice 12: then does that come and sit and become the responsibility of the regional planning committee

[0:54:56] Voice 12: staff presented an argument about what the goals would be to support ltcs

[0:55:02] Voice 12: especially in terms of middle-income households or you know just working people

[0:55:06] Voice 12: and then it answers the questions about the objectives about what we're trying to do,

[0:55:11] Voice 12: where you're trying to do it and how you're trying to do it. So it's meant to make it a

[0:55:15] Voice 12: trust-wide strategy so that we could have a focused emphasis on resources where they're going

[0:55:20] Voice 12: because as I said the toolkit itself is especially part one is primarily being done and it's probably

[0:55:27] Voice 12: going to be done this fiscal term and it'll just maintaining it will be just become part of staff's

[0:55:34] Voice 12: normal work part two is not done it has not been focused on nor has the strategy really been

[0:55:41] Voice 12: focused on hasn't advanced very much and it's going to be up to this LTC or this LTC this RPC

[0:55:46] Voice 12: what they want to do and we didn't have any further information for you today so it's you

[0:55:51] Voice 12: know not much for discussion but in September we will bring should be bringing information to

[0:55:56] Voice 12: consider and talk about and ask yourselves where's the best place for the regional planning committee

[0:56:00] Voice 12: committee to commit the resources and I know you all have a lot of thought about that and and stuff

[0:56:05] Voice 12: like that so it's just there for um for that discuss to see the discussion later on uh we

[0:56:12] Voice 12: have some outstanding questions as I just said toolkit further changes about part two that's

[0:56:16] Voice 12: exactly what I just talked about do we do further changes part two or do we just stop and do we

[0:56:21] Voice 12: allow these rezoning applications to um proceed per applicant and per um you know we have a current

[0:56:28] Voice 12: planning team just like a regional planning team and they're cross-seeding their information and

[0:56:32] Voice 12: resources and allow that to happen organically as i mentioned we have resourcing below the dedicated

[0:56:38] Voice 12: three full-time equivalents we have approximately 2.2 out of three and that 0.8 absence is really

[0:56:45] Voice 12: felt to advance things like this project and like otherwise we'd be moving on part two

[0:56:51] Voice 12: and of course last but not least is i where i started was talking about trust council's

[0:56:56] Voice 12: strategic plan was amended to talk about housing and how do we do that i put zero thought into it

[0:57:02] Voice 12: i don't think anybody else has perhaps chair patrick and um and so that's a worthy discussion

[0:57:07] Voice 12: do we change courses or do we adapt the housing strategy to meet the trust council's new

[0:57:13] Voice 12: interim strategic plan so with all those questions we have next steps i'll pause there for trustee

[0:57:23] Voice 12: Yeah,

[0:57:24] Voice 17: I just have a question. Could you go back to the last slide? So resourcing. If we have the budget for three full-time equivalents and we've only got 2.2 staff, what is the problem with filling that with an auxiliary person so that we can get the three full-time staff that we need?

[0:57:42] Voice 17: We

[0:57:43] Voice 12: have had up to now in the last few months, two unsuccessful hiring competitions.

[0:57:49] Voice 12: So it's getting, it's not for lack of trying, but it's tricky to get either a part-time person or a non-permanent position.

[0:58:01] Voice 12: And it's especially tricky to get them on one of the, as I call them now, the satellite offices in Gabriola or on Salt Spring, being the cost of living on the islands and the lack of affordable housing options.

[0:58:13] Voice 12: So, so yeah, we keep trying. We have a few other tricks up our sleeves. We're constantly trying to find a new way to do things. But every time we do, every time we put a penny in the jar, one falls out. So it's just, it's kind of, you know, I've never seen the islands just ever fully staffed full time all the time. It just, it's an organization that's always, people are coming and going.

[0:58:36] Voice 12: going. I would also merit though that the team you have on the regional planning team

[0:58:42] Voice 12: is exceptional and you have planner Chadwick who is just mind-bogglingly connected and

[0:58:48] Voice 12: effective and well communicative. You have planner Zupanek who is you know she takes

[0:58:55] Voice 12: no guff and she helps every community like from the bottom of her heart and you have

[0:59:00] Voice 12: a planner garbo who is a super efficient big plan thinker and really effective at project management

[0:59:07] Voice 12: not to mention rpm kojima who makes everything look easy the guy so so i would say the team that

[0:59:15] Voice 12: you have right now is effective we were able to plug an auxiliary planner into that that was jason

[0:59:20] Voice 12: yeomans he's now gone he's in the the private world so um he we we were able to fill that void

[0:59:26] Voice 12: he's gone we have as you heard through email we have senior intergovernmental no that's not right

[0:59:35] Voice 12: senior policy advisor Mary Stortzer I should have thought practiced her last name but Mary

[0:59:42] Voice 12: who's starting with TAS Trust Area Services helping with the policy statement she's going

[0:59:47] Voice 12: to be dedicating some of her time in September to this group that's what I sort of referenced

[0:59:51] Voice 12: earlier and so we keep grabbing what we can where we can how we can as much as possible so

[0:59:56] Voice 12: So I would say that we're very active at trying to.

[1:00:00] Voice 12: float the boat as much as possible so yeah but yeah i don't mind you keep bugging me about those

[1:00:04] Voice 12: resources because it it's yeah yeah yeah but i mean even though we don't have it in numbers i

[1:00:11] Voice 12: would say we have it almost in effort and impact but because you could get one person who's on my

[1:00:15] Voice 12: no i won't say it i won't say it on public i just did um okay so uh those are the outstanding

[1:00:21] Voice 12: questions oh i'm sorry were you satisfied with that trustee elliot is that okay

[1:00:26] Voice 9: and

[1:00:27] Voice 12: so the next

[1:00:27] Voice 12: steps um we talked about the the mapping initiative discuss the toolkit this so this is

[1:00:33] Voice 12: basically for you now you've heard from staff this is we gave you the overview we're prepping for the

[1:00:39] Voice 12: september rpc meeting especially with the business cases uh we'll be finalizing the toolkit especially

[1:00:44] Voice 12: part one and then the strategy where do we go with that especially in in light of the islands

[1:00:51] Voice 12: the trust council's resolutions in june which we haven't had time to apply here i think

[1:00:57] Voice 12: that's it for me anyways so happy to i'm going to turn off my sharing so you can see each other

[1:01:03] Voice 12: better uh like i said we have uh robert kojima here we have narusi here you have myself uh we're

[1:01:10] Voice 12: at your mercy happy to answer any questions i'll leave i'll return it back to the chair and

[1:01:14] Voice 12: thanks for your time um

[1:01:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): before uh so i guess we have general questions of the presentation we

[1:01:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): just heard but are we going to now go through each tool is that the intent of the next part

[1:01:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): part of this meeting is to now get into the conversation.

[1:01:31] Voice 12: We leave it to the pleasure of the chair.

[1:01:32] Voice 12: If you were,

[1:01:33] Voice 12: we imagined that you would go high and then specific,

[1:01:36] Voice 12: but if it's the will of the chair,

[1:01:39] Voice 12: if you'd like to go specific and forget the high it's,

[1:01:42] Voice 12: it's up to you, but we're,

[1:01:43] Voice 12: we're ready to respond in any way you wish to go.

[1:01:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Well, I see David.

[1:01:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you.

[1:01:55] Voice 5: And that was an excellent synopsis of what we've got here.

[1:02:00] Voice 5: material but um it would help me with my questions if we did see a visual representation of each tool

[1:02:07] Voice 5: but that just helps me get the right words what i'm saying you know whatever the particular tool

[1:02:13] Voice 5: is i'll be able to reference it correctly i do have lots of questions as we all do i'm sure

[1:02:20] Voice 12: well i'll go bold you're gonna put them up

[1:02:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): there you

[1:02:25] Voice 12: can see my screen i have there you go if that

[1:02:30] Voice 12: that suits your need i can zoom into any tool you wish at your leisure well

[1:02:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): i i guess we should

[1:02:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): probably just go through it methodically um because that's how it is in our in our um our

[1:02:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): our books our books our uh packages here um i think we can go through that and then i think

[1:02:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): it is going to be a bit of an organic conversation as it's a it's a big document we may we may

[1:02:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): scatter. I'll do my best to try to clump conversations the best we can. And we may

[1:03:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): start bottom up. Instead, Steppen might be easier with just the way it is here, each tool. So we

[1:03:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): should start with tool one, which was, where was it? Oops. Yep. I'm just trying to get myself with

[1:03:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): of too small of a screen I'm working on myself.

[1:03:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): So oops, tool one.

[1:03:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): So yes.

[1:03:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): Anyone that has questions on tool one?

[1:03:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): David, Trustee Graham.

[1:03:49] Voice 5: Thank you, I kind of looked at the both the minor

[1:03:54] Voice 5: and the major and it looked to me

[1:03:55] Voice 5: that the difference really was just money

[1:03:58] Voice 5: but I may have missed some of the nuance

[1:04:00] Voice 5: of the two charts.

[1:04:02] Voice 5: charts right so is that correct it's it's it's a it's a budgeting this uh difference between uh

[1:04:10] Voice 5: doing a minor project and a major project and obviously the timelines would be would be longer

[1:04:17] Voice 12: money it's definitely a timeline and funds which of course affect the most the funds would be uh

[1:04:24] Voice 12: resulting from from my experience anyways from engagement or or whatever research so

[1:04:31] Voice 12: And so, yeah, so basically when you're asking staff to do something in a short timeline using just staff resources, the other could be a much more broader research and engagement process.

[1:04:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): Rusty, Alan, did you have your hand up?

[1:04:51] Trustee Allen (probable): I did. I just, I'm going to take it back again. Thank you.

[1:04:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): I know I had a comment. My comment generally is the use of the word work plan.

[1:05:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): um i think when you were speaking um director simranic earlier you said that you had usually

[1:05:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): seen uh used a gantt chart or something of that nature and i and i see it i see this very much as

[1:05:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): that it's more of a gantt chart or a it's a high level overview it is not a work plan

[1:05:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): because i think for me my expectation is work plans may be a bit more detailed and i think

[1:05:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think that's some of the nuance difference between tool one and the minor and major project would be preparing in a little bit more detailed way.

[1:05:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think that this sort of overlaps with the project management policies and things that we have of, you know, the phases of projects.

[1:05:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): And as we go through them, of having that appropriate detail, because it's not just working with trustees and staff.

[1:06:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): We have our communities that are also coming along on board and trying to make their way through these projects and understand these projects.

[1:06:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think we should be building a bit more work plan-ish material, which is some meat behind some of these statements.

[1:06:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): um and i and i see that as a tool that would work for staff to be building those that that

[1:06:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): information it may be you know there may be different paragraphs but to draw from on

[1:06:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): information but i think there's a real opportunity to to build a bit more like i said of a real true

[1:06:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): work plan um to give a better idea of what this item means each item i don't know if anyone else

[1:06:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): feels that way or has looked um you know when they receive packages or see this information

[1:07:03] Voice 17: it could be helpful i think and and i wonder if would there be the opportunity to present it in

[1:07:10] Voice 17: two ways um so this is sort of a an overview like you said more the high level um but

[1:07:18] Voice 17: a fillable gantt chart with maybe some more detailed steps um that go into

[1:07:25] Voice 17: And my other consideration was timelines are different for different LTCs, depending on how many meetings they have in the year or how big the community is.

[1:07:34] Voice 17: So specifying month six and month seven and eight, if your LTC only meets four times a year, that may not be helpful.

[1:07:43] Voice 17: A chunk of time of like, you know, a span of this is when that step would occur might help reduce the expectations, perhaps that things, you know, for every LTC are going to get done in the same timeline, because things are going to shift depending on how long the community consultation takes.

[1:08:03] Voice 17: So I don't know if that's, like, target dates are great, but maybe a Gantt chart would allow you to have sort of a slider of, you know, max minimum time.

[1:08:16] Voice 17: Anyway, that's my only thought on that.

[1:08:20] Trustee Allen (probable): Christy Allen.

[1:08:22] Trustee Allen (probable): Okay, I found my notes.

[1:08:23] Trustee Allen (probable): um yeah it's it's where it's the stage of what um first nations engagement is because if you look on

[1:08:31] Trustee Allen (probable): on in the actual charts it's they're not engaged till phase one and the second line and yet on

[1:08:41] Trustee Allen (probable): page 10 that little arrow illustration at the top of the page at the top there it says how do

[1:08:50] Trustee Allen (probable): first nations project introduction so that's right at the beginning before which i kind of agree

[1:08:55] Trustee Allen (probable): that's where we're sort of changing what we're doing on Hornby a bit more like having

[1:09:01] Trustee Allen (probable): comics first nation be notified way earlier um so I was just wondering how other people feel about

[1:09:08] Trustee Allen (probable): where this is at it doesn't kind of jive with how the chart is and um I do agree that it should be

[1:09:15] Trustee Allen (probable): earlier than rather

[1:09:16] Voice 8: than the phase one so that's fine those are my words the silence is deafening

[1:09:26] Voice 8: i

[1:09:30] Voice 5: agree i agree with uh alex um i'm just going to jump in

[1:09:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah and i i i've always been i'm the

[1:09:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): one that keeps saying lingering in the project definition phase to me that that that that brings

[1:09:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): both the community and first nations element uh um it's about preparing for this project and

[1:09:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): having those early conversations with the with first nations as well as some early conversations

[1:09:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): with the community so that they're you know you're kind of preparing everyone for what's coming not

[1:10:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): just wham you know we're here um i saw some more hands up at aaron aaron uh aaron campbell

[1:10:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee campbell all right i i hate these formal names no

[1:10:16] Voice 6: that's fine that's fine i was just

[1:10:18] Voice 6: wondering i i was uh listening to the denman meeting yesterday and uh trustee graham um

[1:10:26] Voice 6: made a point about proactively requesting or proactively sending out a letter

[1:10:38] Voice 6: to the local First Nations to see if they even wanted to engage on certain topics.

[1:10:48] Voice 6: And I know that we had a gentleman who consults for one of the First Nations bands

[1:10:54] Voice 6: show up at uh he's a pender resident and he came to one of our special meetings and

[1:10:59] Voice 6: he encouraged us to pick up the phone and just ask the question um and to get a more immediate

[1:11:07] Voice 6: answer on some of the stuff that could drag out for for a long period of time and i wonder if

[1:11:14] Voice 6: that is something that we could collectively do for housing specific um on all the islands

[1:11:23] Voice 6: no

[1:11:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you i think we're hearing a good trend here that phase zero is uh needs to better align

[1:11:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): there um trustee luckham did you did you have any other questions there trustee campbell or

[1:11:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): points we'll come around and invite staff in on this conversation shortly

[1:11:49] Voice 6: no i just couldn't figure out how to put my hand back down

[1:11:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's no worries uh trustee luckham

[1:11:55] Voice 4: Thank you, Chair Patrick, and thank you for providing me the opportunity to go a little

[1:12:02] Voice 4: bit higher level and broader here because I wanted to ask the question about the community engagement

[1:12:11] Voice 4: and particularly applicant and agency engagement in this work because obviously we only play one

[1:12:19] Voice 4: One arguably small part in the process, a lot of the information here that is really terrific and very helpful is really mostly helpful for trustees and LTCs to understand their process.

[1:12:36] Voice 4: But there's also a really important necessity to provide something similar and, in fact, condensed, I think, more easily accessible that applicants and agencies that are involving development of housing and community more broadly that may choose to come together to facilitate working with all the agencies required to create some housing.

[1:13:04] Voice 4: so um i don't i don't have anything specific detailed with respect to how this is going but

[1:13:10] Voice 4: that's a great conversation about uh target uh uh timelines and and dates and things because it

[1:13:17] Voice 4: does need to be more considered in in phases so that's just sort of more detailed comment to

[1:13:22] Voice 4: support that idea of thinking about that in a different way that isn't directly associated

[1:13:27] Voice 4: associated with months of the year because indeed many LTCs meet a different frequency but I'm

[1:13:34] Voice 4: trying to grapple with how it is that the community broadly agencies and those that own land that are

[1:13:44] Voice 4: thinking about options available to them for doing housing development how can we provide

[1:13:49] Voice 4: an understanding to them of what it is and what role it is the ltc plays to and to empower them

[1:13:58] Voice 4: to come to the table much more prepared than what i observe um with projects that end up coming they

[1:14:06] Voice 4: they're excited about doing something and then they feel like they're getting stalled or delayed

[1:14:11] Voice 4: by the ltc because it just simply does take time according to meeting schedules and all that sort

[1:14:18] Voice 4: stuff so i'm interested in a public facing version of this work uh

[1:14:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you uh trustee luckman i

[1:14:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): know you were at the the vancouver housing summit at the same time i was in the the media panel

[1:14:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): that was their biggest advice from the the folks that cover local government said you got to be out

[1:14:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): a lot earlier in projects now than you ever thought you did before um that's how we counter

[1:14:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): to you know get the right information out there for people um we can't wait to if they said if

[1:14:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): people are hearing about it at the public hearing wow you are way too late yeah

[1:14:55] Voice 4: thank you for that

[1:14:56] Voice 4: um chair patrick i also just want to make a remark about engagement with first nations

[1:15:03] Voice 4: is we same thing we need to be way early in in reaching out to the first nations community

[1:15:10] Voice 4: asking them how do they want to be involved in our interest in housing because there's certainly

[1:15:18] Voice 4: more and more interest in First Nations returning to their home the traditional

[1:15:27] Voice 4: territory that is their home and having those opportunities to come back to the islands and so

[1:15:34] Voice 4: So we need to do that outreach early so that we can plan and be respectful of their needs.

[1:15:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you.

[1:15:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Brown, did you?

[1:15:48] Voice 5: Yes, thank you.

[1:15:48] Voice 5: I just wanted to follow up on Aaron's comment there.

[1:15:52] Voice 5: The project charter that Dem and local trust committee was looking at with our housing project had a number of stages where we were referencing First Nations and particular COLOGS' interests.

[1:16:04] Voice 5: And I know that Trust Programs, Claire's doing a great job with those letters, but our concern was we didn't want to wait. We didn't want to wait and have those project charter additions slow the project up, especially if Comox comes back initially and says, oh, gosh, you know, good work, them, and really not interested in participating.

[1:16:28] Voice 5: we've got you know way too much on our plate right now which you know that's my guess but i really

[1:16:33] Voice 5: don't know so a quick easy i wish i could pick up the phone error i mean that would be that would

[1:16:38] Voice 5: be just brilliant but at least we're going to get a quick letter out and give them that opportunity

[1:16:42] Voice 5: to respond fairly quickly well

[1:16:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you anyone else i know i'm looking at my notes here i you

[1:16:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): know the one thing i wanted to comment on that it's really not about the project plan but something to

[1:16:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): to me that's missing in the toolkit is we're basing our projects right now on an LTC or the

[1:17:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): elected trustees come in and say, you know what, we have a housing problem. We want to have a

[1:17:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): housing project or whatever this is. Let's look at what we want to do. But there's also an ongoing

[1:17:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): data monitoring element and almost a staff somewhat triggered, you've got a problem here

[1:17:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): your um identification that you know what data are we monitoring you know we've got these nice

[1:17:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): profiles that we've we've created but what's behind those profiles how often are they updated

[1:17:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): when are they looked at when all the data components that you know make up our our

[1:17:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): communities that exist um some of that data tells a story and triggers um you know the ltc to say

[1:17:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): say, gee, you're right. We need a project here. And I don't know if that's happening anywhere else

[1:17:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): or if that belongs in this series of tools, sort of the community monitoring. I don't know what

[1:17:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): else to call it, but data monitoring. Does anyone else have any feeling on that? I see Toby's hands

[1:18:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): up. Great.

[1:18:07] Voice 17: Yeah. Thank you for that point. I do think, because I'm thinking specifically of

[1:18:12] Voice 17: Laskiti where we just had our LTC meeting and they've been in this very long OCP review process

[1:18:20] Voice 17: and which is very community driven and super interesting to see how that's going to work out

[1:18:26] Voice 17: so staff have now been asked to do a high level analysis of that draft document and the implications

[1:18:35] Voice 17: of if the user were translated into you know bylaws what would that look like which that work

[1:18:40] Voice 17: hasn't quite been done but the question I wanted to ask is it's not a housing specific project it's

[1:18:47] Voice 17: an OCP review but there's housing related questions that have come up since then or perhaps the

[1:18:54] Voice 17: community didn't contemplate that looking at this toolkit looking at the OCP policy options table

[1:19:02] Voice 17: for instance or the you know what what do they need to think about when with the LUB so

[1:19:09] Voice 17: like bringing this in to buttress the conversation I guess and add more options if that hadn't been

[1:19:20] Voice 17: contemplated does it need to be called a housing project like can this not be folded in as part

[1:19:27] Voice 17: part of their you know OCP review too so you know focusing so much on housing I think could be

[1:19:33] Voice 17: detrimental because people might say well we're not talking about housing but they want to talk

[1:19:38] Voice 17: about ecosystem mapping they want to talk about you know ecological values and where to put

[1:19:43] Voice 17: development and so that's bigger than housing but it it's this I think we could talk to yourself

[1:19:50] Voice 17: maybe a little bit into a corner here if community members um think oh well that's housing we're not

[1:19:58] Voice 17: dealing with that or we're fine with that but we do want to talk about land suitability or analysis

[1:20:03] Voice 17: or um you know where to put farming areas or you know so how do we expand the um I guess what we

[1:20:14] Voice 17: call this so that it can be brought in uh for other projects that aren't necessarily housing

[1:20:19] Voice 17: focused i guess would be my question extremely

[1:20:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): good question let's see oh there's a uh nurse

[1:20:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): are you responding to her question yeah

[1:20:33] Planner Chadwick (probable): i was just going to quickly say um um one of the great

[1:20:36] Planner Chadwick (probable): things is we're trying to make sure that all the planners are aware of this tool um and that uh it

[1:20:43] Planner Chadwick (probable): could absolutely uh be used in other context um there's there's no reason that it that it can't

[1:20:50] Planner Chadwick (probable): be so i just wanted to point that out yeah

[1:20:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): and i think i think we're probably going to have a lot

[1:20:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): more conversations as as we move forward because i you know that that might be a good conversation

[1:21:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): to have right now what i say when i say housing may be different than what you say when you say

[1:21:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): housing of um of what that means um i don't know if anyone wants to have that conversation right

[1:21:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): now or uh we'll just carry on in this uh uh this this way because it's uh it's an interesting

[1:21:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): question what do you what do you think housing is I

[1:21:24] Voice 17: think we we chair if we could actually

[1:21:29] Voice 17: book some time in for that and and

[1:21:31] Voice 17: I think it's a really important question because the words that

[1:21:35] Voice 17: we use will signal um certain things and values to community members and they'll either think

[1:21:41] Voice 17: I'm part of the conversation or I'm not or I'm against this idea or I'm for it and so again if

[1:21:47] Voice 17: if we narrowly define this as a housing toolkit,

[1:21:51] Voice 17: are we leaving out questions of what is development? What is human impact?

[1:21:56] Voice 17: What is, you know, working with ecosystem services look like in a healthy,

[1:22:03] Voice 17: well-rounded way. Right. So I I'm just,

[1:22:06] Voice 17: I think we should actually have that conversation. Maybe not right now,

[1:22:09] Voice 17: but I totally agree.

[1:22:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): Absolutely. Cause I know I was,

[1:22:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): I was sharing a cab with a trustee and she asked me, she goes, Laura,

[1:22:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): Laura, she goes, all you do is talk about housing. When are you going to talk about

[1:22:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): the environment? And I said, I am talking about the environment. Where do you think

[1:22:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): we build the houses? So for me, they're not separate. Anyway, I, before I, Trustee LaRonnie,

[1:22:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): I see that you're here, but I saw Trustee Graham had had his hand up, down, up, down, up, down.

[1:22:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Graham, did you want to speak or go on to Trustee LaRonnie? There you are.

[1:22:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): Hey, can you hear me?

[1:22:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay, wait a minute. So David was muted for a second. David, you were muted. So hold on.

[1:22:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Laroni, just a second. David?

[1:22:49] Voice 5: Thank you. I'm sorry. I wasn't going to talk on that topic.

[1:22:54] Voice 5: I was going to talk on where other impetuses for projects can come from.

[1:23:04] Voice 5: But I can wait if this conversation is more important.

[1:23:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, I think we need to plan the housing.

[1:23:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): That is an important conversation that we're going to have to have before we,

[1:23:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): We, you know, at some point, make sure we do have a conversation on what we all vision

[1:23:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): housing to be.

[1:23:24] Voice 5: Okay.

[1:23:25] Voice 5: So go ahead.

[1:23:26] Voice 5: This is very brief.

[1:23:27] Voice 5: Past Director of Bylaw Enforcement, Miles, whose last name I can't remember, once told,

[1:23:34] Voice 5: I think it was Trust Council, he said, you know, when bylaw enforcement sees the same

[1:23:39] Voice 5: bylaw infraction coming from an island over and over again, it's time for the local trust

[1:23:43] Voice 5: committee and community to look at their bylaws because you've got a problem here and i thought

[1:23:47] Voice 5: you know that's brilliant that's that's a that's a really ground truth uh that's that's where it's

[1:23:52] Voice 5: coming from the bottom up to the decision makers as opposed to the decision makers going down to

[1:23:57] Voice 5: the community the community speaks through um just you know multiple single area bylaw infractions

[1:24:05] Voice 5: a

[1:24:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): good point and i think i hope if uh stefan's taking notes i think what we're talking about

[1:24:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): out is sort of around item number one says the LTC identifies you know topic areas for a problem

[1:24:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think we're saying there's other inputs that could trigger the LTC to have that and I agree

[1:24:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): you know trends of bylaw enforcement we have data you know the results of data trends those are

[1:24:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): things that could be raised sort of from staff to raise those to attention to the LTC. Trustee

[1:24:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): Rusty Laroni. Hi.

[1:24:42] Voice 1: Okay. This is kind of going back to what we were talking about a second ago.

[1:24:45] Voice 1: Sure. But I'm in the middle of a little housing review on Luskete. I've just asked the community

[1:24:51] Voice 1: to give me their views. And I'm still in the middle of, you know, collating the 13 type

[1:24:57] Voice 1: single space pages. But what I'm hearing a lot is, yes, people realize there is an issue with

[1:25:04] Voice 1: housing on Luskete. There isn't enough. But as you were saying, they're also hugely concerned

[1:25:10] Voice 1: about the environmental impact of more housing and do we have the water do we have the ferry

[1:25:16] Voice 1: capacity do we have all the other things to support uh increasing growth so i think you're

[1:25:21] Voice 1: saying that yeah you're totally right about how um ecology and environment has to do with housing

[1:25:27] Voice 1: oh

[1:25:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you yes to me that is our that is the job we can't separate them it is a total package

[1:25:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah okay are there any other questions right now on sort of these charts i'm sorry i'm trying to

[1:25:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): look through my notes on a split screen here that i can barely see um anyone else have any comments

[1:25:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): on these the tools for the model work plan those were okay so no others at this time

[1:26:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): sorry trustee i was

[1:26:12] Voice 17: quick question um because director sermac you'd mentioned at the very

[1:26:15] Voice 17: beginning that we're to think about you know this is a presentation we think about it and then bring

[1:26:20] Voice 17: our sort of um more refined ideas in September so um is the intention still to to present this sort

[1:26:31] Voice 17: of as the draft is or are you going to incorporate look at incorporating some of these ideas or

[1:26:37] Voice 17: questions and bring maybe some alternatives in September um just because it sounds like we're

[1:26:42] Voice 17: getting into some serious feedback realm thanks

[1:26:47] Voice 12: for the question trustee elliott and through the

[1:26:50] Voice 12: chair um yeah so the intent is to capture your discussion as i also mentioned you know looking

[1:26:57] Voice 12: for the areas where we hear general consensus didn't have to be you know everybody agrees

[1:27:03] Voice 12: and just my notes and i'm not sure what uh our minute taker is capturing but for my notes you

[1:27:08] Voice 12: I'm hearing things like the work plan should reflect better project management

[1:27:13] Voice 12: details, such as a Gantt chart.

[1:27:15] Voice 12: And I think we have a greater organizational need to have to refine our

[1:27:22] Voice 12: project or our overall project management, how we do it.

[1:27:25] Voice 12: Like all the business cases, the project charters and all that,

[1:27:29] Voice 12: I think need a refresh.

[1:27:31] Voice 12: And I think the governance is heading that way with finance.

[1:27:34] Voice 12: But so I captured that sort of detail about saying that the work,

[1:27:37] Voice 12: is it a work plan? It's not.

[1:27:39] Voice 12: and so refine what that actually is versus you know because the work plan is a detailed thing

[1:27:44] Voice 12: the other one was talking about earlier um it said notify way earlier about first nations and

[1:27:50] Voice 12: community engagement so that lingering in the definition phase that phase zero talking community

[1:27:55] Voice 12: developing strategy with them before engaging so it captured those notes and then of course about

[1:28:01] Voice 12: about trend monitoring or data management,

[1:28:05] Voice 12: such as bylaw enforcement and other matters.

[1:28:09] Voice 12: So those are the sort of the key three themes

[1:28:10] Voice 12: I'm picking up and my notes are in that

[1:28:13] Voice 12: and that'll reflect the report.

[1:28:14] Voice 12: I'll of course double check to see what the meeting minutes

[1:28:18] Voice 12: come out and say.

[1:28:19] Voice 12: And so to answer your question then is that'll then reflect

[1:28:23] Voice 12: on the amendments we make or recommended changes.

[1:28:25] Voice 12: And then it'll reflect on the business case

[1:28:27] Voice 12: that we propose for the next fiscal to see how we address it.

[1:28:31] Voice 12: Does that answer your question?

[1:28:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think that's, we'll talk a bit more here in a minute, but I see, Trustee Laroni, your hand was still up. Is that a lingering hand? Must be. Okay, Trustee Elliott?

[1:28:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): just

[1:28:48] Voice 17: a just a very quick follow-up then the the phrase phase zero really bothers me then if

[1:28:54] Voice 9: constructive

[1:28:55] Voice 17: feedback yeah i if if the project definition phase is that important it's not a

[1:29:00] Voice 17: zero it should be called project definition or something else so that's just a thank you

[1:29:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's in my notes as well it's ever since that was introduced um i hated the term um i

[1:29:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think it is such an important space

[1:29:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): in beginning these projects

[1:29:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): that, yeah, Project Zero just doesn't give it honor.

[1:29:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think generally you got the comments that you had there.

[1:29:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think that one thing about,

[1:29:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): yes, this isn't a work plan,

[1:29:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): but I think the key is for some major housing projects,

[1:29:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): a work plan, an actual detailed work plan is important

[1:29:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): important um because it does serve as a guy it not only is does do the trustees understand

[1:29:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): the project that they're undertaking but it also works as a vehicle for the community

[1:29:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): to understand the project that we're doing too because we we all develop

[1:30:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): expectations this is what we think the project's going to do then you get like halfway through it

[1:30:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's like oops we either didn't communicate clearly and you know we have the project may

[1:30:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): be something different and i think having some level of detail um for the larger projects

[1:30:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): is important i don't

[1:30:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): know is everyone else uh you know so generally you heard a summary from

[1:30:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): stefan does everyone feel kind of thumbs up is anyone yelling that the the that we missed

[1:30:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): anything on this tool at this time fantastic uh then we'll move on to i guess it's tool what's

[1:30:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): the next tool here tool two tool two oops um sorry uh trustee allen did you have a comment

[1:30:50] Trustee Allen (probable): yeah i don't know whether it's my little words with editorial background but and by the way

[1:30:55] Trustee Allen (probable): i'll be sending a very edited version to you stefan because little extra spaces things like

[1:31:01] Trustee Allen (probable): like that up you know inconsistencies i won't share them here because they're go on and on and

[1:31:05] Trustee Allen (probable): on but i have an issue with the the singular version of need instead of housing needs and i

[1:31:13] Trustee Allen (probable): don't know why it just kept on popping up throughout this entire section especially when you read like

[1:31:19] Trustee Allen (probable): you know like the second headline housing need and island characteristics because i look at housing

[1:31:25] Trustee Allen (probable): there's different housing needs there's needs for elderly there's needs for the vulnerable just you

[1:31:30] Trustee Allen (probable): You know, so I'm not sure whether other people felt that when they read this.

[1:31:34] Trustee Allen (probable): I just like to have,

[1:31:35] Voice 8: that's what came out for me.

[1:31:45] Voice 8: Okay, I appreciate it.

[1:31:46] Voice 8: It's always

[1:31:46] Trustee Allen (probable): this silence after I say something.

[1:31:48] Trustee Allen (probable): It's weird.

[1:31:49] Trustee Allen (probable): We're giving space to be told.

[1:31:51] Voice 12: You guys are doing it on purpose.

[1:31:53] Voice 17: Thumbs up, Alex.

[1:31:54] Voice 17: Okay,

[1:31:54] Trustee Allen (probable): that's what I want to hear.

[1:31:55] Voice 17: Thanks, Toby.

[1:31:56] Voice 17: Thumbs up.

[1:31:56] Voice 17: Okay, I'll

[1:31:57] Voice 17: just keep yabbering.

[1:31:58] Voice 17: I

[1:31:59] Trustee Allen (probable): love that little voice of yours.

[1:32:00] Voice 17: Okay.

[1:32:01] Voice 17: Okay.

[1:32:04] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:32:05] Voice 12: Good point.

[1:32:07] Voice 12: Well spoken.

[1:32:07] Voice 12: spoken. Those little additions are certainly would be refined through the editorial stage

[1:32:13] Voice 12: and I appreciate that's a very important point. Okay, so I'm taking over the chair because

[1:32:18] Voice 12: the chair is wandering. So the housing discussion paper guidelines, yeah, is presented there

[1:32:26] Voice 12: as talked about earlier. It collates various aspects, background information from tools.

[1:32:32] Voice 12: What say you? Any comments? Has anyone ever seen this at their respective LTCs?

[1:32:43] Voice 17: I have seen, I think, a version with Maine.

[1:32:47] Voice 17: Nerissa, I mean, you've presented many discussion papers,

[1:32:52] Voice 17: and I cannot say enough how helpful they are.

[1:32:57] Voice 17: When you're trying to have a discussion,

[1:32:59] Voice 17: and you don't have any framing, and you don't have context,

[1:33:03] Voice 17: and you're like, I think I'm talking about these things as a trustee,

[1:33:06] Voice 17: it is just, yeah, it shows very quickly how the conversation wanders

[1:33:12] Voice 17: and and everything else so i think the housing discussion paper is one of the strongest pieces

[1:33:18] Voice 17: because that translates all the information in the context in the background into you know

[1:33:25] Voice 17: it frames it for community and for trustees so i i cannot emphasize enough how helpful

[1:33:31] Voice 17: a good discussion paper has been for when i'm uh chairing at least so thank you for this

[1:33:38] Voice 17: anyone

[1:33:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): else have any comments in the discussion paper so i know i do i have

[1:33:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): sorry for me one of the elements that's missing is and and this is important context as we

[1:33:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): um as we go forward is our when the ocps that we're marching around to they were developed

[1:34:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): with an expectation that something was going to happen and it may not have happened or something

[1:34:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): something completely different happened. And I think that's part of the discussion that should

[1:34:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): be included in these discussion papers is a bit of an analysis of what settlement patterns did occur

[1:34:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): since the OCP was last updated. And it doesn't have to be a detailed analysis, but I think there

[1:34:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): should be some of, you know, were there, was there something sort of unintended that occurred or a

[1:34:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): A gap was developed as a result of good expectations in an OCP, but it didn't happen.

[1:34:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I see Nerissa has her hand raised.

[1:34:45] Planner Chadwick (probable): Yeah, I just wanted to speak very briefly.

[1:34:51] Planner Chadwick (probable): This guideline, like, I mean, all of the pieces that are guidelines, including the process, including this template and the action,

[1:34:59] Planner Chadwick (probable): the action plan template are really their guidelines.

[1:35:04] Planner Chadwick (probable): lines and and so additional pieces can can be added um and i the way that i've i've now did

[1:35:11] Planner Chadwick (probable): now being engaged in two processes main and denman um how i message things changes um and the details

[1:35:21] Planner Chadwick (probable): that i may be putting in different areas are are different as well and um and those um in both

[1:35:28] Planner Chadwick (probable): cases there's there is a reflection on things that have happened in the past which includes

[1:35:33] Planner Chadwick (probable): includes prior projects that have advanced housing interests or have tried to.

[1:35:43] Planner Chadwick (probable): So I think that kind of background is really important.

[1:35:48] Planner Chadwick (probable): So I guess what I'm trying to point out specifically is that these can be nuanced

[1:35:56] Planner Chadwick (probable): based on the realities of the LTC

[1:36:01] Planner Chadwick (probable): and the interests of the,

[1:36:08] Planner Chadwick (probable): so the realities of local trust area

[1:36:10] Planner Chadwick (probable): and the interests of the LTC themselves.

[1:36:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, no, I hear you,

[1:36:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): but I think there's a lot of people

[1:36:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): that were very proud of our OCPs

[1:36:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): and our OCPs did intend,

[1:36:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): some of them very clearly,

[1:36:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): that diverse communities were expected

[1:36:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): when the OCP was out there, but perhaps that's not what's happening. And I, and I think sometimes

[1:36:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): these discussion papers need, need to be pretty, pretty blunt and say, you know, what, what do we

[1:36:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): see that's happening out there that may have been a divergence from what was, was intended. And,

[1:36:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): and that's, we're all seeing it. We're all, you know, no one, I guess we should have predicted

[1:36:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): maybe 30 years ago that we're going to have this big baby boomer group come out and everyone was

[1:36:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): going to come and buy all our houses and retire here and we weren't going to have any workers left

[1:36:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): but um you know i think sometimes we need to to be a bit more um yeah to put put that information

[1:37:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): in these papers and i see i've david graham yeah

[1:37:11] Voice 5: yeah thank you um you're you're right uh this

[1:37:14] Voice 5: current lens that is filtering our demographics and the lens being you need a million dollars

[1:37:21] Voice 5: just that's that's that's your ante that's what you have to put in on the on the on the table

[1:37:26] Voice 5: just to be a player i i don't think any of us i know i'd never saw this coming and and it's it's

[1:37:34] Voice 5: had such a profound impact on who is coming to the islands and so there's an there should be

[1:37:40] Voice 5: an acknowledgement it's not a it's not a qualitative statement it's just the reality

[1:37:44] Voice 5: that's what it is and and we are dealing with this profoundly at every level i mean we all are

[1:37:52] Voice 5: every business is struggling schools are struggling i'm not going to reiterate we all

[1:37:56] Voice 5: know what that is but that lens is brand spanking new uh and yeah it should be thank you trustee

[1:38:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): elliott so

[1:38:06] Voice 17: could there be a section such as um market forces or drivers demographic drivers

[1:38:13] Voice 17: drivers um like instead of just characteristics it's like what is driving um the largest wedge

[1:38:21] Voice 17: and then so conversely you can see the gaps what is not being supplied more easily so where we have

[1:38:29] Voice 17: a preponderance of single family dwellings on large acreages that are over a million dollars

[1:38:34] Voice 17: uh what we don't have is blah blah blah blah right so market drivers or or you know some kind of

[1:38:41] Voice 17: of like you said the reality check would be super helpful yeah

[1:38:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): because i think too part of this

[1:38:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): conversation is it's not sometimes when we start talking about the housing that we need it starts

[1:38:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): being treated as it's a add-on it's more it's above and it's a lot of this is about correcting

[1:39:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): and making sure that there's space for the people that actually need to live on these islands

[1:39:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): and that maybe there is some curtailment that needs to occur

[1:39:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): and it may be on those higher end houses that need

[1:39:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): or there's other bad habits or bad development

[1:39:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we're seeing that needs to be curtailed.

[1:39:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): I see, Trustee Luckham.

[1:39:24] Voice 4: Thank you again, Chair.

[1:39:26] Voice 4: That's a brilliant move here to recognize future forces

[1:39:35] Voice 4: Because indeed, there are people, and no criticism intended, Trustee Graham, there are people

[1:39:42] Voice 4: that did predict this.

[1:39:44] Voice 4: And in our plan, use planning process, we haven't embraced that.

[1:39:50] Voice 4: And indeed, the critics that are out there go, well, why didn't you think of this?

[1:39:54] Voice 4: So actually creating some method of awareness building to bring all those future forces to play in our discussions now, because, you know, it takes however many years it takes to do an OCP.

[1:40:12] Voice 4: let's just say, call it 10 years, where you finish an OCP, and then you start building another one.

[1:40:18] Voice 4: I would say in the last 10 years, the market forces have changed significantly. So we do

[1:40:23] Voice 4: need that as part of this toolkit to foster awareness in all of the work that we do.

[1:40:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right, thank you. Trustee Borthwick.

[1:40:40] Voice 3: Yeah, I just want to, and really, this is just sort of

[1:40:43] Voice 3: speaking in support of those those notions uh and and i think this is a good place to capture that

[1:40:50] Voice 3: in this process um is and this is exactly what i was talking about at our last rbc meeting like

[1:40:59] Voice 3: we've got to think about the future where we're going and and and having a a concept of what we're

[1:41:07] Voice 3: doing there because it's it's we there's there's very little we can do to to patch uh stuff in the

[1:41:17] Voice 3: moment and there's very little we can do to to fix stuff that's already happened but um there's a we

[1:41:23] Voice 3: have a great deal of agency over what's coming down the line and being really clear about what

[1:41:29] Voice 3: we think the values of our communities are and how those can be preserved and protected uh needs to

[1:41:36] Voice 3: to be more than a reactive standpoint. And I think this is a good place to capture that

[1:41:43] Voice 3: in this process. So yeah, I don't have anything specific to add, but I just wanted to sort of

[1:41:48] Voice 3: re-emphasize that concept.

[1:41:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes, we need to find a way to get your analogy of planting the seeds

[1:41:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): for the future into something that can be in every one of these reports, because that is

[1:41:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): absolutely true. And I think that is so much of what we're doing is people read what gets out

[1:42:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): out there and they're trying to do their best understand it and then you know if we end up

[1:42:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): reacting to their reaction and um and i think the clearer we can be in in providing this information

[1:42:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh you know then it's a conversation we don't have to have if someone understands it

[1:42:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): or we're we're clarifying and agreeing to that uh trustee lagame you did have your hand up and now

[1:42:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's back down again yeah

[1:42:28] Voice 8: go ahead

[1:42:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): oh go ahead sam

[1:42:32] Voice 3: just i well i like i'm going to become the

[1:42:34] Voice 3: the analogy, trustee, this term.

[1:42:39] Voice 3: I had a couple of things that I threw out yesterday

[1:42:42] Voice 3: at our LTC meeting, and they're not intentional.

[1:42:45] Voice 3: It doesn't necessarily come out ahead of time.

[1:42:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): Julia Mobs beat you with a fantastic analogy yesterday,

[1:42:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): so watch out.

[1:42:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's coming to a meeting near you.

[1:42:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): So you don't have to feel you're alone.

[1:43:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay, trustee Luckham has now disappeared.

[1:43:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): up there he is he fell disappeared in the forest did you want to speak uh trustee luckham no i

[1:43:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): think he's having another conversation so uh anything else on this discussion paper um i i

[1:43:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): think i think what is critical and i'll speak to staff is is the the audience of this paper and i

[1:43:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): think being clear and i think the paper is not just written for the trustee it is in the hands

[1:43:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): of our community when it's in our agenda package, and I think it needs to have those two audiences

[1:43:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): in mind. You are speaking to the trustees about their choices, but the community is very interested

[1:43:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): in any paper that has to do with housing, and I think that's another, that's an audience that's

[1:43:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): critically important for this paper. I'm seeing some nods of heads. Is there anyone going, no,

[1:43:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): this is just a trustee paper? Sorry, Nerissa, we're making your job harder. Okay, any other

[1:44:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): questions on on tool two does uh staff want to think that worked well stefan did you want to

[1:44:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): try to summarize what you heard before we go on and uh i think that was a good idea um

[1:44:15] Voice 12: okay thank

[1:44:16] Voice 12: you uh so you know i i have a lot of thoughts about what i'll just said but i'm i'm supposed

[1:44:22] Voice 12: to putting my thoughts and i'll try to summarize the key things is you know um i i was kind of

[1:44:27] Voice 12: highlighting while you were talking sort of reading the document as you were discussing

[1:44:31] Voice 12: discussing and when I look at the housing need in section two or my mind y'all keep doing it

[1:44:36] Voice 12: housing needs and characteristics you know this is the information and really what I was hearing

[1:44:41] Voice 12: is what further information is required and from that I was hearing uh sort of hinting at the OCP

[1:44:49] Voice 12: progress or the implementation of OCP policies is there an evaluation of the official community

[1:44:56] Voice 12: plan as drafted how far has the LTC gone in implementing the view the vision of it and so

[1:45:03] Voice 12: I think that's a worthy addition to put in there because as you know I'm obviously most familiar

[1:45:08] Voice 12: with Salt Spring Islands OCP and I can see all kinds of things in there about flex housing and

[1:45:13] Voice 12: accessory dwelling units and so on and so forth that may didn't never made it not to mention all

[1:45:18] Voice 12: the other environmental development permit areas and hazard prevent areas and so on and so forth

[1:45:23] Voice 12: so i know that there's always when you come to your ocp amendment process one of the first tools

[1:45:30] Voice 12: you're going to do is do an assessment of the ocp have you implemented the very vision that

[1:45:36] Voice 12: it encaptures so i think that's worthy of putting in there i'll put that we can put that in there

[1:45:40] Voice 12: and then the second question was in here what further information is required

[1:45:45] Voice 12: again this would be most critical i think when it comes to doing official community plan whereby

[1:45:49] Voice 12: by your setting your vision and your long-term goals and that are these drivers you're talking

[1:45:53] Voice 12: about and what what drivers are driving change and of course economics are a huge no I don't

[1:46:00] Voice 12: think anybody could have really predicted the timing or impact of COVID-19 but of course

[1:46:05] Voice 12: here we are and now maybe we should be planning for more of those in the future and maybe that's

[1:46:10] Voice 12: what climate change is going to look like in the future too so I mean maybe it's going to drive

[1:46:14] Voice 12: population and economic change and so on and so forth so um i think drivers a discussion of

[1:46:20] Voice 12: drivers we can capture that in the what further information is required those are the two things

[1:46:24] Voice 12: i got is ocp evaluation of implementation and a capture of the drivers that are driving future

[1:46:28] Voice 12: changes yeah

[1:46:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): i think this i think as we started in the beginning when i sort of laid the table

[1:46:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): for the meeting is you know we we're we're we're we're plant planting those seeds that few we want

[1:46:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): want to make sure that the islands of the future are those you know diverse resilient uh inclusive

[1:46:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): communities um and you know i think we need to be blunt when we say we've got trends occurring

[1:46:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): that are the opposite direction and and and say that because um um in our reports as as well be

[1:47:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): very clear and i see aaron aaron campbell hold

[1:47:07] Voice 6: up um i just in list listening to what what we're

[1:47:12] Voice 6: talking about um i'm just wondering if we're making a discussion on the housing toolkit

[1:47:21] Voice 6: and what that tool specifically has started out to be if we're not making it too broad now

[1:47:31] Voice 6: into things that would be more specific to each island's ocp um when we get into a housing

[1:47:42] Voice 6: discussion on our on our island specific if it needs to get as broad as we're trying to make it

[1:47:48] Voice 6: i don't i'm just curious that's

[1:47:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): a good question i think this is in regard to you know the you

[1:47:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): i guess you're going to see i think i think north bender has a housing conversation coming up or it

[1:48:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): will be that a discussion paper would be one of the early things that are going to be

[1:48:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): be brought to the table and it's what should be in that and you brought it how do you how do you

[1:48:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): what is that extent of context and you are right it needs to be appropriate to the island and the

[1:48:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): challenges that you're facing but it's it's it's a recognition that there's trends occurring on

[1:48:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): your island that may be problematic you know that housing for you know workforce or other

[1:48:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): other forms of housing is disappearing right

[1:48:40] Voice 6: yeah i guess yeah

[1:48:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): so would you see value in setting you

[1:48:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): know do you just want to jump in and say yes we need to build a housing project or are you saying

[1:48:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): you know we're responding or we're seeing trends that are that are problematic i

[1:48:53] Voice 6: just think that

[1:48:54] Voice 6: it is specific to each island um and we're having the discussion on how we think as a group that

[1:49:05] Voice 6: that should be communicated, but...

[1:49:08] Voice 6: Oops,

[1:49:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): were you cut off?

[1:49:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): Oops, Trustee Campbell, I think you...

[1:49:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): The

[1:49:25] Voice 6: purpose of this to be to discuss the toolkit

[1:49:27] Voice 6: and what was coming out in it.

[1:49:29] Voice 6: And now it feels like we're getting more into specifics

[1:49:32] Voice 6: of sort of what's going to happen during a meeting,

[1:49:39] Voice 6: but I may be missing it too.

[1:49:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): Oh, that's okay. Your feedback's very important. The intent was not to the media. It's content of a discussion paper or things that could be in a discussion paper that we're talking about. Yes, some of us are sharing our experiences in our individual islands, but it's what could be in a discussion paper to make it useful to each island, and it would be specific to the island. Absolutely.

[1:50:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Borthwick.

[1:50:20] Voice 3: yeah um well just in terms of the sort of the development because i guess what we're

[1:50:24] Voice 3: you know we're talking also about the development of this paper right hopefully i'm coming through

[1:50:30] Voice 3: okay yes

[1:50:32] Trustee Patrick (probable): i

[1:50:33] Voice 3: mean my internet is unstable i'm like i know uh one of the things that i think i think

[1:50:42] Voice 3: uh i i suspect that uh uh planner chadwick will uh possibly resonate with with this point um so

[1:50:52] Voice 3: as you were saying before um laura the um or and it's been sort of discussed a couple by people

[1:51:00] Voice 3: that you know what the public sees in these documents is is really important and will

[1:51:05] Voice 3: will wildly affect the timbre of your meeting um and the the sort of component i'd like to see

[1:51:14] Voice 3: maybe sort of baked into this perhaps is that it's and i've been thinking a lot about this in the last

[1:51:21] Voice 3: um last couple of weeks as we run up to our lcc meeting meeting yesterday um is it is the

[1:51:28] Voice 3: part we're all you know a large mechanism here and the trustee's role in that mechanism is to

[1:51:35] Voice 3: to be the human interface between the public and staff

[1:51:42] Voice 3: and who, you know, cause we, and we live here,

[1:51:44] Voice 3: like it's not reasonable for,

[1:51:48] Voice 3: like we can't expect every person who works

[1:51:51] Voice 3: in the whole trust to live on your island.

[1:51:55] Voice 3: So, you know, by nature,

[1:51:57] Voice 3: some of those people are not gonna have firsthand experience

[1:51:59] Voice 3: of the people that they're trying to communicate with.

[1:52:01] Voice 3: And I would really wanna encourage

[1:52:07] Voice 3: staff to consider their trustees to be a resource in helping to set the tone of the conversation

[1:52:13] Voice 3: um we're we're really cheap we're like the cheapest resource that the trust has um in a lot

[1:52:19] Voice 3: of ways and and um you know that we also are because because we're cheap we we you know we

[1:52:29] Voice 3: have limited bandwidth sometimes but um i'd really want to encourage staff to invite trustees to help

[1:52:35] Voice 3: help um sort of craft those those messages um because there's definitely been bits and i've

[1:52:41] Voice 3: you know we've nerissa and i've had a lot of conversations about this about like hey let's

[1:52:45] Voice 3: maybe we'll we'll we'll emphasize this part or we'll don't get into the detail of that bit of

[1:52:50] Voice 3: back bit or do you get into detail here where you're maybe not because i have an understanding

[1:52:56] Voice 3: of what people want to know uh in my community better than nerissa ever could um just by the

[1:53:03] Voice 3: nature of i'm here every day um so there's there's there's a resource there and i'd like to see that

[1:53:09] Voice 3: sort of um codified and i'd like to say i mean obviously it's not for us to do staff's work

[1:53:14] Voice 3: um and i you know personally i don't have the time to do staff's work i can't do staff's work

[1:53:20] Voice 3: staff are much smarter than i am and much more much better trained for this but um in terms of

[1:53:25] Voice 3: crafting that human element of the message and making sure that the information in there is

[1:53:30] Voice 3: germane to the public's uh interests i think we're a resource and i'd like to see us used effectively

[1:53:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you any other conversations on the discussion paper discussion on the discussion

[1:53:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): paper that brings us then to the next tool which is tool whatever number we're on i can't count

[1:53:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): can't tool three zoning and policy options table the trustee alan found his notes

[1:54:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): you

[1:54:03] Trustee Allen (probable): know let's just do it looks like a groundhog day i'm first again and uh it's all about

[1:54:08] Trustee Allen (probable): editorial um so yeah once again the housing the big banner at the top address housing needs

[1:54:17] Trustee Allen (probable): um this is like it's really detailed it's pretty amazing um my thing is when we got to page 22

[1:54:26] Trustee Allen (probable): zoning form use um there's the same languages over and over again and um page 22 so i've

[1:54:36] Trustee Allen (probable): actually edited it and made it shorter and had an idea just to have one big paragraph above

[1:54:40] Trustee Allen (probable): different things but i won't share that because it's this is editorial but i think you'll all

[1:54:45] Trustee Allen (probable): agree on page 22 you know you've got introduction secondary suites blah blah blah the same it's the

[1:54:52] Trustee Allen (probable): same language back and forth so i think for because it's such a big chunk of information

[1:54:58] Trustee Allen (probable): in this section um just just make anyways i've rewritten it to go one big blob paragraph

[1:55:07] Trustee Allen (probable): paragraph to go above some of these definitions just to make it more readable and friendly

[1:55:13] Trustee Allen (probable): um and then also yeah but I really like the way I do like the way this is set up actually

[1:55:24] Trustee Allen (probable): contrary to Stefan you don't really like this setup but um yeah I thought it was easy to read

[1:55:31] Trustee Allen (probable): so that was my only point was this section is redundant thank

[1:55:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): you trustee Graham yeah thanks

[1:55:42] Voice 5: Thanks, Alex. Yeah, I like this format too. I'm just looking on page 18, the eco-density bonus

[1:55:48] Voice 5: description I found confusing, just the way it's written. There's something about efficient water

[1:55:53] Voice 5: homes. I wasn't sure what that meant. Anyway, I don't know if we're here to be doing this kind

[1:56:00] Voice 5: of fine editing, but I just want someone to catch that.

[1:56:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): Any other comments? I know I had

[1:56:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): one and that is under suitable land on page seven um it said ocps could contain

[1:56:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): policies to direct resident growth based on i think what it's missing is also um

[1:56:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): there's the curtailment piece we could be increasing you know intensities and densities

[1:56:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): in some areas as a trade-off you know for lower density and others um because i i think you know

[1:56:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're kind of again missing that you know we're just looking at housing being more rather than

[1:56:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): maybe moving it you know or directing it somewhere different in a go-forward place

[1:57:05] Voice 12: so i was too busy scrolling i'm sorry chair patrick could you sort of repeat that so i

[1:57:11] Voice 12: so i

[1:57:12] Voice 12: said not my finger yeah

[1:57:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's right um it was the reasons for directing residential growth

[1:57:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): based on i said it could also be you know increasing intensities and densities in some areas

[1:57:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): as a trade-off for lower density and others i don't know if that makes sense that belongs there

[1:57:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): but any other comments on this table it's fun to try to find your notes

[1:58:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): maybe let you off the hook too easy on this one stefan i

[1:58:03] Voice 12: was going to defer to uh robert kajima

[1:58:06] Voice 12: on this one

[1:58:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): ah i see i mean i know one of the conversations we're going to have is about sort

[1:58:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): of maintenance and things moving forward and i um i you know i would hope that these these things

[1:58:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): are not that a lot of new ideas and things are coming from other areas but sometimes we do get

[1:58:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): get surprised by you know what a what a community is doing elsewhere in bc or elsewhere in the world

[1:58:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): that we might want to add to the list as we go forward that we should always be you know trying

[1:58:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): to grow our ideas not uh not become stale someone's got to figure out this housing problem

[1:58:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): we'll steal it okay um then we're going on i guess to oh that's not we're back is that the

[1:59:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): it for tools no

[1:59:10] Voice 12: that was just tool three oh

[1:59:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): tool three we're

[1:59:12] Trustee Allen (probable): skipping to tool six because there's

[1:59:14] Trustee Allen (probable): no

[1:59:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's right sorry that's right

[1:59:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's not what it was called sorry

[1:59:20] Trustee Allen (probable): it's 31 thank you i'm on it

[1:59:23] Trustee Allen (probable): with the index you're on fire well you know why because that thing looks like it it looks like

[1:59:30] Trustee Allen (probable): a bookmark there's no relation to an index that illustration at all it's a bookmark

[1:59:35] Trustee Allen (probable): exactly well

[1:59:36] Trustee Allen (probable): Well, that doesn't relate to an index to me.

[1:59:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay.

[1:59:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): Sorry, I was in the other package there.

[1:59:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay.

[1:59:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): So that would help if I was in the right agenda.

[1:59:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): Here we go.

[1:59:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): Although, did we...

[2:00:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): want to talk at all about um tool four and five from what we heard um sorry i didn't mean to stop

[2:00:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): us um were there any thoughts or comments that you had earlier that uh mark was more sort of

[2:00:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): the nuts and bolts were there any thoughts or on on these things because i know i had one on the um

[2:00:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): the two things i think again as we were talking about audience earlier when we were talking about

[2:00:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): um and and stephan you brought that up it was like okay now someone comes to the piece of land and

[2:00:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I don't know what the suitability analysis is going to look like.

[2:00:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): But, you know, if it's the stoplight approach with the red, green, you know, which I hope I hope we think carefully on colors.

[2:00:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): But, you know, OK, so the land is in the middle of the red.

[2:00:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yet there's all kinds of good community reasons why that property should continue.

[2:00:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): When I think we have to be aware that when we create these tools and put them out, it's the communications that go with it,

[2:00:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): because there are members of our community that will latch onto that and say, I'm sorry,

[2:01:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): you can't do this project because it's not suitable because your map says so. So I think

[2:01:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's really important that we have, you know, asterisks or stars or communications very clearly

[2:01:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): on these tools when they get produced on the islands as to, you know, how it's used, what it

[2:01:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): it means and um you know just so that it's we we don't put ourselves in a corner that

[2:01:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): we can't get ourselves out of uh trustee graham thank

[2:01:34] Voice 5: you laura yeah i even had an example on

[2:01:37] Voice 5: them and i looked at our our really very successful uh coho development which is that was an upscale

[2:01:43] Voice 5: from one dwelling to 15 and i went through the list and about the only thing that would fit is

[2:01:48] Voice 5: that there was a road that had road access there was no pipe water no pipe sewage no the septic

[2:01:54] Voice 5: was marginal because it's rock um there was very little ground water so they use cistern so

[2:01:59] Voice 5: in that respect i think laura's hit the nail on the head that if the map is being used by groups

[2:02:06] Voice 5: that are let's just characterize them as nimbys with love um then that's that we don't want them

[2:02:13] Voice 5: to use this against us so i don't know how we frame suitability potential suitability i'm not

[2:02:20] Voice 5: not sure i'll leave that with to the planners yeah

[2:02:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): i think it's just a caution there and the

[2:02:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): same with the building analysis because my understanding of a building analysis is it's

[2:02:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): basically the test of our existing zoning our zoning says this is the potential for the build

[2:02:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): out and so that's what we're creating a build out map based on today's zoning we never really said

[2:02:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): is today's zoning good was it right um it is literally that and that leads me to like so like

[2:02:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): We have Island A. We won't give any island a name. And they end up with a, they're built out. They've built every single family house on every lot they can and they're built out. Yet their local businesses don't have any people working for them and they need to house them somewhere.

[2:03:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): um so i think we have to be again cautious of what the build-out map means is it's a build-out

[2:03:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): of the current you know sort of the the vision and the zoning that exists today um and that uh

[2:03:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): we still may need innovation and creativity to have a you know some adjustments and changes to

[2:03:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): be able to you know to to accommodate you know the the change that's happening on the islands to

[2:03:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): to maintain that diversity and healthy community going into the future so communications is going

[2:03:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): to be so important on all of this any other comments on those build out and uh sustainable

[2:03:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): or stefan yes i see you sorry

[2:03:49] Voice 12: i can't seem to find my digital hand which is hilarious but i

[2:03:52] Voice 12: think it's because i'm presenting um the uh i just wanted to comment on the communications

[2:03:57] Voice 12: staff are very conscious of that as well um and that's why you don't have any draft maps we didn't

[2:04:02] Voice 12: want people to misinterpret or run away with them and we've seen previous maps uh even before my

[2:04:08] Voice 12: time um that similar incident happens and so on and so forth um and of course communications are

[2:04:14] Voice 12: very clear and i remind the rpc that you have already set aside i believe it was five thousand

[2:04:20] Voice 12: dollars for this term to put towards communications and if you decide in september that that's how

[2:04:26] Voice 12: how you'd want to do it in terms of actually advancing this project and setting

[2:04:30] Voice 12: out the expectations of what this is and what it is not. And so, yeah,

[2:04:36] Voice 12: we can do, we can do that.

[2:04:37] Voice 12: Just just sort of remind you if you're being spurred for next,

[2:04:40] Voice 12: next meeting that you have a communications budget of $5,000.

[2:04:44] Voice 12: And if you want us to start thinking about that in terms of especially these

[2:04:47] Voice 12: maps, we can do that for you. Just bring those ideas

[2:04:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): at the next meeting.

[2:04:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's also, as you develop the processes,

[2:04:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think it's got to be written right in there.

[2:04:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): you know it's it's it's this isn't necessarily communicating to people it's how it's even

[2:04:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): communicated in your intern the documents that could be get in public hands that um you know

[2:05:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): we've we've that that's been thought of um how it could be used or misused or uh causes a challenge

[2:05:16] Voice 12: sorry go ahead

[2:05:17] Voice 12: if i made through the chair sorry just i don't mean to be too um yeah the um again

[2:05:23] Voice 12: Again, we're really aware of that in-house, and this is why we've asked staff, the mapping department, to document the process as clearly as possible so we can communicate the assumptions that are built into the map.

[2:05:35] Voice 12: Because before, they just made maps, and we're really conscious that we need to provide those assumptions to the public in advance so that there's no, you know, we can actually clearly communicate what it is.

[2:05:47] Voice 12: So, yeah.

[2:05:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you.

[2:05:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): I can read the article now.

[2:05:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right. I notice it must be noon for those of you in Noonland.

[2:06:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): Is that, am I correct?

[2:06:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): How are we doing on time? How much more time do we have for the meeting?

[2:06:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): Do people want to take a break? I want to be conscious of that.

[2:06:13] Trustee Allen (probable): Can we take a 10 minute break or something?

[2:06:15] Trustee Allen (probable): How

[2:06:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): much time would people like?

[2:06:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): How much more time do you think we're going to need today?

[2:06:25] Voice 8: Hour and a half.

[2:06:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): And my apologies,

[2:06:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): I stepped up for 10 minutes for the minute taker.

[2:06:33] Voice 8: Okay.

[2:06:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): We're just talking about should we take a lunch break now?

[2:06:39] Voice 17: I think so, because I would love to come back and have more discussion on stuff.

[2:06:44] Voice 4: Yeah, it's going to be an hour and a half, I think we should offer.

[2:06:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): So is 30 minutes sufficient?

[2:06:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): I want to make sure it's enough.

[2:06:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): So we should come back then at 12.40?

[2:06:56] Voice 8: All right.

[2:06:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): Does that sound like a plan?

[2:06:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right.

[2:07:01] Trustee Patrick (probable): if that's all

[2:07:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): right we stop let's uh we're gonna what's

[2:07:04] Voice 17: up i just uh chair maybe 10 minutes after

[2:07:07] Voice 17: that just because i have to go get some building supplies for site preparation so all right you

[2:07:12] Voice 17: hurry you

[2:07:13] Voice 17: see my lunch break for that okay okay all

[2:07:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): right so 30 minutes thank you guys

[2:39:41] Voice 8: back

[2:39:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): from lunch i see david grab i saw stephan turn on his camera back and forth but um i think

[2:39:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're missing up sam you're hiding back there good and we knew that uh trustee elliott was

[2:39:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): going to be missing a few minutes is trustee

[2:40:03] Voice 8: campbell did we lose trustee campbell looks

[2:40:12] Voice 8: like we've lost trustee campbell we don't have quorum now i suspect yeah i can't help you there

[2:40:45] Voice 8: like

[2:40:45] Voice 4: it's a decision-making meeting it's a

[2:40:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): conversation um and i know uh toby elliott

[2:40:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): was going to be back a few minutes late and looks like we lost trustee laroni as well

[2:41:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): we lost lots of people maybe she'll call it well no i guess she knew it was about time

[2:41:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): well that's not good there's three of us and uh chair luckham well why would you

[2:41:16] Voice 4: step on and

[2:41:18] Voice 4: Robert, too. Temporary trustees.

[2:41:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): Oh, they'd have way too much fun.

[2:41:31] Voice 4: Since I didn't try.

[2:41:35] Voice 8: What should we do?

[2:41:40] Voice 5: Well, there, I mean, I don't know.

[2:41:44] Voice 5: There are a few things that I want to just bring to staff's attention.

[2:41:49] Voice 5: Not necessarily needing other trustees to know about it,

[2:41:53] Voice 5: just as long as it's brought to their attention.

[2:41:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee allen's coming back now i think no

[2:42:00] Voice 8: yes there he is all right we got four of us

[2:42:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): is that quorum what's what's quorum 50 yeah

[2:42:15] Voice 8: we just have 50 right

[2:42:28] Voice 8: toby mikaela

[2:42:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): toby will be back momentarily we're missing mikaela may raid aaron and so we're

[2:42:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): missing four it must be eight of us so

[2:42:42] Voice 8: i guess we can

[2:42:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): proceed was

[2:42:43] Voice 4: my read with us earlier no she

[2:42:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): wasn't she has a saturnal local trust committee meeting today oh

[2:42:50] Voice 4: well there we go they're probably

[2:42:52] Voice 4: having a lovely time all

[2:42:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): right so i guess we'll we'll go ahead and get started uh uh trustee graham

[2:43:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): did you want to ask your questions now or sure quite

[2:43:04] Voice 5: happy to um one is just um having just come

[2:43:09] Voice 5: come from a housing centered local trust committee meeting

[2:43:15] Voice 5: yesterday, I can just give you some real world feedback

[2:43:19] Voice 5: on certain tools and the project charter

[2:43:24] Voice 5: that was looked at by our community,

[2:43:26] Voice 5: the timelines scared many of them

[2:43:30] Voice 5: because they looked at the last date as the target date.

[2:43:36] Voice 5: So there was a full range that Planner Chadwick

[2:43:40] Voice 5: provided for us to look at and I think trustees understood that that range but for some reason

[2:43:45] Voice 5: the community focused on the last date and got quite worried that that that's what our target

[2:43:51] Voice 5: was and I don't know if we can if you can address that in project charters in the future or or

[2:43:58] Voice 5: I'm not sure work plan timelines were not fully understood is what my notes say that's just one

[2:44:03] Voice 5: one thing. And in the housing development, in the trust area responsibilities list, I think we

[2:44:13] Voice 5: should add individual landowners. They have a responsibility also to provide housing when they

[2:44:20] Voice 5: have an opportunity, especially as we're looking at secondary dwellings. Some landowners will take

[2:44:26] Voice 5: that upon themselves because they value the makeup of their community so you know that those are not

[2:44:34] Voice 5: on that list but i think they should be um a comment non-profits rarely have developer

[2:44:43] Voice 5: experience um you've seen this and we've seen this so many times so anything that we can do

[2:44:49] Voice 5: to help a non-profit at least understand the complexity of these large developments that

[2:44:55] Voice 5: that may make them think twice

[2:44:57] Voice 5: or maybe seeks a developer experience on their board.

[2:45:01] Voice 5: I know on Denman, one group was very reluctant

[2:45:05] Voice 5: to have a developer on board because of the,

[2:45:08] Voice 5: you know, the generally misunderstood understanding

[2:45:14] Voice 5: of what developers do.

[2:45:15] Voice 5: But actually a developer is a really useful person

[2:45:18] Voice 5: to have on your board because they've actually done it.

[2:45:21] Voice 5: And my final comment

[2:45:23] Voice 5: is the Development Approval Information By-law,

[2:45:27] Voice 5: which, as you say, spells out to a potential developer

[2:45:32] Voice 5: things that they should do

[2:45:33] Voice 5: before it comes to the local trust committee is dangerous.

[2:45:39] Voice 5: Speak from an experience on Demand

[2:45:42] Voice 5: that happened 10 years ago.

[2:45:44] Voice 9: And

[2:45:44] Voice 5: I believe the developer spent

[2:45:46] Voice 5: somewhere around $700,000

[2:45:49] Voice 5: accomplishing the various requests

[2:45:52] Voice 5: requests, and the local trust committee, when they had an opportunity to speak, turned the

[2:45:57] Voice 5: application down based on the number of official community plan policies and guidelines which were

[2:46:04] Voice 5: not supported by this application. That was a hell of a shock. And so I would suggest that

[2:46:11] Voice 5: applicants come to the LTC first, before they spend a whole ton of money, just to get a general

[2:46:17] Voice 5: census to, not that the LTC can tell them that it's going to go or not, but at least they can

[2:46:22] Voice 5: give them i mean it's only fair i think to tell a developer wow this is so far out of our official

[2:46:28] Voice 5: community plan policy and guidelines i don't know if this is going to work i mean i i'm not sure

[2:46:34] Voice 5: what we can say as decision makers but i i just hated to the fact that they had spent a ton of

[2:46:40] Voice 5: money and then we turned them down it's just a matter of timing can can we have those people

[2:46:47] Voice 5: come to the ltc before they spend money anyway those are my those are my only comments that i

[2:46:52] Voice 5: was going to add to today's meeting. Thank you.

[2:46:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): No, thank you, David. And I know I hosted a panel

[2:47:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): of housing projects, one of them being from Denman at the Rural Island Economic Partnership. And it's

[2:47:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): as well, they are a group of volunteers that are pulling things together to do these projects in

[2:47:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): and only the best intentions and the costs that they are facing as well are overwhelming.

[2:47:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think that's, I hope, what Stefan Zermack was talking about, the timing of some of these

[2:47:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): parts and pieces are really important when they're trying to get secure funding, how

[2:47:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): much money that has to be put out before they can get that funding.

[2:47:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): There is an attendee with a phone number that has their hand raised, and I don't know if

[2:47:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): by accident they are uh one of us or is it an attendee that has their hand raised does anyone

[2:47:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): recognize the phone number or what should we do can we maybe ask who this is but we're not

[2:47:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): inviting them

[2:47:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): to speak i

[2:47:59] Trustee Allen (probable): don't see them anywhere i

[2:48:00] Voice 2: believe that might be trustee

[2:48:02] Voice 2: laroni because she called in last time and i think that's the same number but i can make her

[2:48:08] Voice 2: an attendee i think thank you or can i let's

[2:48:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): see if we can fix this

[2:48:14] Trustee Allen (probable): was it a 20 attendee before

[2:48:16] Trustee Allen (probable): the lunch there was no she was on the phone attending oh okay

[2:48:21] Trustee Allen (probable): there she is are you there

[2:48:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee laurani

[2:48:24] Trustee Allen (probable): what's her phone number oh

[2:48:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): she's muted but she had her hand up so hopefully she

[2:48:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): has the ability to speak now okay then thank you everyone so sorry uh trustee allen you had your

[2:48:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): hand raised so

[2:48:39] Trustee Allen (probable): did robert kachina i don't know whether he wants to chime in now hello

[2:48:43] Voice 1: yes

[2:48:44] Voice 1: yes we're all together

[2:48:45] Trustee Allen (probable): yes we've

[2:48:47] Voice 1: okay um may i speak yes you may okay sorry i'm still used to

[2:48:54] Voice 1: this phone thing um okay i was just kind of speaking on what um trustee graham was referring

[2:49:02] Voice 1: to about it being on the part of it being on the land owners the only thing on the landowners who

[2:49:07] Voice 1: do have space for secondary housing and also just encouraging that and doing what we can to

[2:49:15] Voice 1: to encourage it like for example this is my favorite example on the skidi it costs $7.50

[2:49:20] Voice 1: for to um dump a one bag of garbage it's free to recycle so everybody recycles as much as

[2:49:27] Voice 1: humanly possible i mean i go through one garbage bag in three or four months because we can recycle

[2:49:33] Voice 1: so much we have a great program so and i know like places like vancouver have done this and

[2:49:37] Voice 1: i know that people freak out about it but things like you know vacancy tax or you know giving a

[2:49:43] Voice 1: tax break if somebody does build a rental cabin on their property or you know just making it so it's

[2:49:49] Voice 1: kind of a no-brainer as it were to have housing and to encourage housing as landowners

[2:49:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): islanders housing islanders yes

[2:50:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you okay trustee allen yes

[2:50:08] Trustee Allen (probable): robert can't speak anymore all right sorry robert um

[2:50:13] Trustee Allen (probable): Um, yeah, I just wanted to follow what Trustee Graham said, you know, 10 year plus, I'm not sure how long ago it was, but we had a developer who had a brilliant idea. And it was great. It was four corners. But instead, what they did when they came to the community, they put this giant billboard on the corner, didn't have a meeting, didn't talk to anybody.

[2:50:33] Trustee Allen (probable): everybody there was an uproar it was just really badly done and it was too bad because

[2:50:39] Trustee Allen (probable): it would be really affordable it was these brilliant work studios like a studio you could

[2:50:44] Trustee Allen (probable): sell things in the bottom and live above it was you know a little bit a little bit over the top

[2:50:48] Trustee Allen (probable): in some other areas but it was really great and they're not going to come back again i think he

[2:50:52] Trustee Allen (probable): wants to build a campsite there now or something i don't know and it's uh it's very unfortunate so

[2:50:56] Trustee Allen (probable): i'm really trying to figure out how we can get all this you know i don't know about realtors but

[2:51:01] Trustee Allen (probable): But how we can get this to developers

[2:51:03] Trustee Allen (probable): because before they, you know, make a

[2:51:08] Voice 8: bunch of mistakes.

[2:51:09] Voice 8: I'm not sure how.

[2:51:11] Voice 8: That's all.

[2:51:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right.

[2:51:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think we're having a general conversation.

[2:51:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): Stephan, did you want to say something?

[2:51:23] Voice 12: Sure.

[2:51:23] Voice 12: I think perhaps Robert was going to say something.

[2:51:26] Voice 12: But I'll just note that we're having a conversation

[2:51:29] Voice 12: about a couple different things.

[2:51:31] Voice 12: I'll note that tool 10, when you get there,

[2:51:34] Voice 12: it does at the bottom have private on there and that's meant to be private landowners so it does

[2:51:38] Voice 12: speak to their role um in there so just want to acknowledge that it can be expanded you know let's

[2:51:43] Voice 12: talk about it when we get to that tool and then the other one is about i'm hearing about application

[2:51:48] Voice 12: processes and you know i've just flipped open um our our guides to applicants when they're doing

[2:51:55] Voice 12: rezonings and stuff like that and you know i can show it to you if you want me to but it really

[2:51:59] Voice 12: does say the first thing is review the islands trust policy statement ocp and land use bylaw

[2:52:04] Voice 12: it's the very first thing that we encourage applicants to do and we they also have pre-

[2:52:09] Voice 12: application meetings discuss the proposal with an island trust planner in order to understand

[2:52:13] Voice 12: the process application requirements and potential interests and requirements etc etc so we have that

[2:52:20] Voice 12: as a pre-application process i think that's what we're i think we're good at that um so that's

[2:52:25] Voice 12: That all happens before they submit the application.

[2:52:28] Voice 12: That's the pre-application process.

[2:52:30] Voice 12: And actually, a lot of planning departments throughout the province

[2:52:34] Voice 12: charge for that pre-application process.

[2:52:36] Voice 12: We do not.

[2:52:38] Voice 12: We just invite people to come and speak with us and have that conversation.

[2:52:41] Voice 12: So just thought I'd sort of give you information about that.

[2:52:44] Voice 12: I think it's outside the scope today to talk about the application process.

[2:52:48] Voice 12: But suffice to say, we hear you and it's there.

[2:52:51] Voice 12: And if you want to follow up the conversation, call Robert.

[2:52:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): And that's a good advertisement. All right. Trustee Luckham, were you on that same vein or what did you want to speak about?

[2:53:02] Voice 4: Well, I was. And I'll just note that I think it was Trust Planner Chadwick that said we have an open door policy.

[2:53:15] Voice 4: If you want to talk about a potential application of any kind, go and talk to staff.

[2:53:20] Voice 4: that information is available and if and so you know this comes back to my original comment at

[2:53:25] Voice 4: the beginning about having a public facing an applicant facing landlord facing document that

[2:53:31] Voice 4: says right that if you're contemplating some kind of land development of any shape or description

[2:53:37] Voice 4: but around housing there are costs etc that are significant and you should talk to the planner

[2:53:43] Voice 4: about the feasibility that that's the role that the planning staff have is to say well this is

[2:53:49] Voice 4: is gonna require all kinds of amendments

[2:53:50] Voice 4: and it might be that the LTC may not support it

[2:53:54] Voice 4: in the way that it's brought to us.

[2:53:55] Voice 4: So we need to make sure that everybody is aware

[2:54:00] Voice 4: of what the opportunities are.

[2:54:01] Voice 4: So thank you.

[2:54:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right, Trustee Bothwick.

[2:54:06] Voice 3: Yeah, so sort of, I had another point

[2:54:09] Voice 3: which I'm gonna sort of circle back to a little bit,

[2:54:12] Voice 3: but on that sort of front,

[2:54:15] Voice 3: I'd be interested to hear from staff

[2:54:16] Voice 3: if um if anyone's kind of been taking advantage of that open door uh concept and uh and and if

[2:54:27] Voice 3: there have been what kinds of requests for um like uh so peter was saying uh that someone might come

[2:54:39] Voice 3: forward and and the planner might say yeah sure there are some significant like you know challenges

[2:54:44] Voice 3: or expenses involved in that it would involve some major amendments um in in the spirit of

[2:54:50] Voice 3: wanting to try to be proactive knowing we want a certain knowing we want to affect certain kinds

[2:54:57] Voice 3: of change not not all change but certain kinds of change are there requests that have already

[2:55:01] Voice 3: been made that we can be looking to and going like okay well maybe here are some other like

[2:55:05] Voice 3: bits of where we're recognizing that our bylaws are are not allowing potential that's being asked

[2:55:10] Voice 3: asked for already. I guess that would be my first question. And if the chair will permit,

[2:55:16] Voice 3: I'll circle back to that after I've given staff

[2:55:18] Voice 8: have had a chance to feedback on that.

[2:55:23] Voice 8: If staff want to.

[2:55:24] Voice 10: Yeah. Sort of follow what you're saying, Trustee Borthwick. It's yeah,

[2:55:30] Voice 10: you know, someone might come with a proposal, and it might have might have merit, right?

[2:55:37] Voice 10: In our eyes, it might in a planner's eyes, it might have merit, but there's a bylaw

[2:55:41] Voice 10: obstacle in the way we're not going to discourage the applicant for making the application just

[2:55:47] Voice 10: because of that um we also get applications that are completely non-starters basically and then

[2:55:53] Voice 10: it's you know trying to um manage the the potential applicants expectations and explain that to them

[2:56:01] Voice 10: um i was just going to mention about the development approval information bylaw that

[2:56:05] Voice 10: trustee graham brought up and the people spending money before they get any sort of approval what

[2:56:10] Voice 10: our practices are at least now is um you know we're very clear with an applicant don't spend

[2:56:16] Voice 10: any money on consultants until the preliminary report goes to the local trust committee

[2:56:21] Voice 10: and also that preliminary report you know if there's a dai letter like a development approval

[2:56:26] Voice 10: information letter going to an applicant it should be attached so that the trustees local

[2:56:31] Voice 10: trust committee sees what's going to go um and then you know there's some maybe there's some

[2:56:35] Voice 10: some sort of concern that they may want to add something to that to

[2:56:43] Voice 8: our attention so all right

[2:56:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh trustee uh Campbell did you had your hand but it came back down yes

[2:56:53] Voice 5: no nothing okay

[2:56:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh trustee

[2:56:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): Graham thank

[2:56:58] Voice 5: you there was one more thing on my on my list here um I know on Denman um we're going

[2:57:04] Voice 5: to hear that a certain group would really like to have housing agreements attached to

[2:57:12] Voice 5: individual property owners who are considering building a secondary dwelling.

[2:57:16] Voice 5: And I know that the housing agreements generally that the trust administers are for larger

[2:57:22] Voice 5: applicants, you know, a number of units. And I'd like a discussion as to the practicalities

[2:57:29] Voice 5: of administering individual housing agreements

[2:57:32] Voice 5: for individual property owners

[2:57:34] Voice 5: who are contemplating building a secondary dwelling

[2:57:37] Voice 5: for affordable housing.

[2:57:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): Ooh, I don't think, I mean, you've got a big,

[2:57:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): that is a conversation that we will need to have.

[2:57:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): And that's sort of the administrative costs

[2:57:50] Trustee Patrick (probable): of some of these options.

[2:57:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): And is the Islands Trust going to do that?

[2:57:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I don't know if that's something

[2:57:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): we want to tackle today, Stephan,

[2:57:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): or put that off to another meeting.

[2:58:02] Voice 12: I think we could, it definitely needs to be delayed in its wholesome discussion.

[2:58:06] Voice 12: I know we've had this discussion in the past.

[2:58:08] Voice 12: I don't have the information in front of me.

[2:58:10] Voice 12: I do know that from a staff perspective and from a cost perspective, et cetera, that we

[2:58:15] Voice 12: have found that encouraging development that in of itself would make it affordable is a

[2:58:21] Voice 12: preferred route than to managing a host of agreements because we're not very good at

[2:58:27] Voice 12: that, to be quite blunt.

[2:58:29] Voice 12: And so going back and enforcing it can be challenging.

[2:58:32] Voice 12: So we have found that if you encourage a type of development that is, say, secondary suites, that in and of its nature tends to be more affordable, same with accessory dwelling units or detached dwellings.

[2:58:43] Voice 12: So I think that was a conclusion we reached before, but that was an isolated case, and I don't have the facts.

[2:58:49] Voice 12: And as a trust-wide approach, I don't really have much of a response on that other than to say I know who's administering those right now, and I think it would be very challenging to take on too many.

[2:59:00] Voice 12: but um i

[2:59:01] Voice 10: would be a little more blunt than stefan i would say it's completely impractical

[2:59:06] Voice 10: um and you know for a smaller island right um you know it may seem oh you know maybe we'll get 10

[2:59:13] Voice 10: secondary suites what's the problem might be the might be the you know what people are saying on

[2:59:18] Voice 10: the island but when you compare that to say salt spring right where there might be 500

[2:59:22] Voice 10: hundred secondary suites how practical is that to administer all

[2:59:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): right uh trustee bathrock and

[2:59:33] Trustee Patrick (probable): then we got to get on to tool six totally

[2:59:36] Voice 3: and this will hopefully be very quick this was just

[2:59:38] Voice 3: um following on from what um michaela was saying um and there may be a better venue to to

[2:59:48] Voice 3: to ask this question but i was curious about i understand that the island's trust

[2:59:55] Voice 3: uh has uh requested to exempt itself from the vacancy

[3:00:00] Voice 3: tax provincially and i don't know i just want to check if that's the case um that's what somebody

[3:00:06] Voice 3: had said but i don't know if that's the case

[3:00:07] Voice 4: perhaps i'll chime in there um there was when

[3:00:12] Voice 4: that vacancy tax conversation came up years ago mind you um there was some resistance but

[3:00:18] Voice 4: the the uh the minister of finance at the time withdrew the island's trust being involved in

[3:00:26] Voice 4: and that identifying that that was a mistake.

[3:00:30] Voice 4: And so we never formally asked for it.

[3:00:33] Voice 4: The province never intended it to apply to the island.

[3:00:35] Voice 4: There

[3:00:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): was a resolution from the two terms ago, Trustee Bothrick,

[3:00:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): but the essence was also that it wasn't a flat no.

[3:00:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): It needed to be customized in the opinion of the Trust Council of ages ago.

[3:00:53] Voice 3: Sure, sure.

[3:00:54] Voice 3: Sure. Okay. Well, maybe I'll, maybe that's a question I'll bring up at Trust Council. That

[3:00:58] Voice 3: sounds like it's the more appropriate venue for that.

[3:01:00] Voice 3: Anyways, I was just curious. Thanks for the

[3:01:02] Voice 3: clarity.

[3:01:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right. Let's get on to tool number six, which is the housing action plan and local

[3:01:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): housing strategy template. Do we have comments? Oh, we've got crickets here. I have, oh, go ahead,

[3:01:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee graham yeah

[3:01:24] Voice 5: there was one uh in in the number six uh strata ownership of smaller dwelling

[3:01:30] Voice 5: units uh supporting strata subdivision of accessory dwelling units i didn't really understand

[3:01:37] Voice 5: what that was or if it was even possible and i'm sorry i don't know where that

[3:01:42] Voice 5: my notes don't tell me where that is it's i think it's page 35 if

[3:01:46] Voice 8: that helps there we go

[3:01:58] Voice 5: supporting strata subdivision of accessory dwelling units in suitable areas what is what

[3:02:04] Voice 5: does that mean i understand strata subdivision but i don't understand strata subdivision of

[3:02:10] Voice 5: accessory dwelling units i

[3:02:14] Voice 10: think um so first of all this would be an example right this this

[3:02:19] Voice 10: template is just an example so you've you know you've gone through a process you've identified

[3:02:23] Voice 10: what what options is an ltc in a community you want to pursue and these might be some of them

[3:02:29] Voice 10: um so you can do what's called a strata conversion of a building um so you could

[3:02:38] Voice 10: in theory have a strata um created on a lot with a house and an accessory dwelling unit where

[3:02:48] Voice 10: the principal house and all the property is in one strata lot or it's limited common property

[3:02:54] Voice 10: associated with it and then the accessory dwelling unit is a second strata lot

[3:02:59] Voice 10: lot and that would the ideas that would promote um more affordable ownership oh

[3:03:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you

[3:03:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): another example of that i know uh the crd the staff at the crd in the southern gulf islands

[3:03:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): was looking at there'd be a possibility like building a multi-family unit on some of our

[3:03:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): smaller islands it's just impossible to build but what if what if somebody could own you know

[3:03:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): 15 accessory dwelling units and manage and operate those uh you know in a in a scattered approach

[3:03:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): that there it brings in some interesting potential if strata was possible from an

[3:03:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): accessory dwelling unit standpoint but that's some examples um the question i had on the

[3:03:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): strategy document is sort of related to the southern gulf islands where they do that the

[3:03:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): the CRD has developed a local housing strategy

[3:03:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): for the Southern Gulf Islands.

[3:04:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): Why wouldn't we in those opportunities

[3:04:07] Trustee Patrick (probable): work with our partners in cooperation

[3:04:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): to develop a housing strategy

[3:04:12] Trustee Patrick (probable): that would be for multi-agencies?

[3:04:21] Voice 10: Yeah, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't.

[3:04:23] Voice 10: That's an LTC.

[3:04:26] Voice 10: Of course, the LTCs would be developing

[3:04:29] Voice 10: being in the Southern Gulf Islands anyway,

[3:04:31] Voice 10: where there's five LTCs and one electoral area,

[3:04:35] Voice 10: it would apply, the LTCs actions would apply

[3:04:38] Voice 10: just within their jurisdiction.

[3:04:41] Trustee Patrick (probable): Correct, yeah.

[3:04:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): I know it's always complex.

[3:04:43] Voice 10: For Salt Spring, it's much,

[3:04:44] Voice 10: it would be a much more direct overlap there.

[3:04:48] Voice 10: So it makes, it would certainly make sense there.

[3:04:51] Voice 8: Okay, thank you.

[3:04:52] Voice 8: Trustee Allen?

[3:04:55] Voice 8: Yes, thank you, Chair.

[3:04:57] Trustee Allen (probable): Page 37, I was just wondering about,

[3:04:59] Trustee Allen (probable): Well, the Housing Accelerator funding, I was under the impression when we were at the Housing Summit that it's just, it's basically population, so Salt Spring Island and Bowen would be the only islands that could apply. Is that still correct that smaller islands would not be able to because of our population? Could somebody clarify that for me?

[3:05:20] Voice 12: I'm going to let Larissa do that. I know the answer, but she's been quiet and she's the expert right now.

[3:05:25] Voice 12: Oh,

[3:05:25] Planner Chadwick (probable): you asked me when I missed the first part of the question. What was the question again? Sorry, Jesse Allen?

[3:05:35] Voice 12: You're on mute, Jesse Allen.

[3:05:38] Trustee Allen (probable): God, you know, how many years really? The housing accelerator, I can't say accelerator, accelerator funding. I was just wondering, I thought that was just for large populations like Salt Spring and like 15,000 plus. I wouldn't relate to any other items. Can you clarify that?

[3:05:57] Trustee Allen (probable): yeah no

[3:05:57] Planner Chadwick (probable): no there's two there's two streams one is uh large and one is small well

[3:06:02] Trustee Allen (probable): there is a small

[3:06:02] Trustee Allen (probable): one okay yeah thank you all

[3:06:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): right no i guess with that um i think with this strategy i think it's

[3:06:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's going to be interesting to see our this tool as we progress but i really want to make sure that

[3:06:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): we are this is where we must be working in cooperation with it's it's difficult to have

[3:06:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): a housing action plan that is only islands trust um and that we really should be cooperating with

[3:06:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): the various partners because action i think is the key word there but i go go ahead narissa

[3:06:49] Planner Chadwick (probable): yeah i just wanted to point out this this is essentially the main islands action plan this was

[3:06:54] Planner Chadwick (probable): was um uh uh you know we only adjacent for a short period of time so um um he he just sort of just

[3:07:04] Planner Chadwick (probable): used the the main island um example here so um one of the things that and this is also main's draft

[3:07:11] Planner Chadwick (probable): um there may be other actions that may come out of main um like the the unrelated to the so this

[3:07:20] Planner Chadwick (probable): focus the focus here was is very much on the land use bylaw uh piece but it does speak to

[3:07:27] Planner Chadwick (probable): the well that like like the way that i like to explain it is the what and the the where is all

[3:07:32] Planner Chadwick (probable): the land use bylaw stuff and then the how is the uh is the other piece which is the cooperation

[3:07:38] Planner Chadwick (probable): um it's the advocacy um for the you know related to provincial um legislation and all other things

[3:07:46] Planner Chadwick (probable): Right. Maine hasn't dug into identifying those other how pieces in their process but other other LTC might want to, and that this action plan is it, or like our community members may want to see that some of those other pieces are identified in their

[3:08:12] Planner Chadwick (probable): action plan so i just wanted to point out that that means being very focused and um on on some

[3:08:17] Planner Chadwick (probable): various specifics um there may be there may so so there may be um with other ltcs the opportunity to

[3:08:26] Planner Chadwick (probable): to put in some of some other um some other things that that include you know talking to the right

[3:08:33] Planner Chadwick (probable): people to get the the things done that that will that will help um and uh and in in maine's case

[3:08:41] Planner Chadwick (probable): case we're very actively working with the CRD um and um and I know the CRD is also um I got

[3:08:50] Planner Chadwick (probable): some you know conversations I think happening with the province as well so there there is sort of on

[3:08:55] Planner Chadwick (probable): a in an informal way um that sort of coordination and cooperation that's that's happening um but uh

[3:09:03] Planner Chadwick (probable): I certainly do hear where you're coming from to um trustee Patrick well

[3:09:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): I'll put we have a protocol

[3:09:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): agreement between the islands trust and the crd to cooperate on growth management

[3:09:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): they even use the

[3:09:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): words in that protocol agreement so uh important okay any other

[3:09:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): comments on this tool i guess until it comes to your island you'll sounds like there's flexibility

[3:09:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): go ahead uh trustee graham

[3:09:37] Voice 5: yeah um under uh goal one action four um i've just got in my notes

[3:09:46] Voice 5: and particularly on just again another demo example the land use bylaw would could allow

[3:09:52] Voice 5: rainwater catchment exclusively for new construction um don't think there's any

[3:09:59] Voice 5: rainwater mention and that might not be the right place to put it

[3:10:05] Voice 8: but anyway that's what i was

[3:10:07] Voice 8: thinking go ahead narissa um

[3:10:15] Planner Chadwick (probable): yeah i mean that is definitely a part of it uh and it is actually

[3:10:19] Planner Chadwick (probable): mentioned in another part of the work for maine um i would i will mention that i think north pender

[3:10:27] Planner Chadwick (probable): has recently um adopted uh their in their land in their land use bylaw review has now has um

[3:10:35] Planner Chadwick (probable): regulations requiring cisterns for all new builds so um this idea of the the regional planning team

[3:10:42] Planner Chadwick (probable): kind of working as a team and being able to sort of adapt,

[3:10:48] Planner Chadwick (probable): create these almost model bylaws.

[3:10:50] Planner Chadwick (probable): You know, those, the work that's being done

[3:10:53] Planner Chadwick (probable): can then inform, you know, the other work.

[3:10:56] Planner Chadwick (probable): And I mean, in this case, I worked on that piece as well.

[3:11:00] Planner Chadwick (probable): So it's, you know, there's this,

[3:11:03] Planner Chadwick (probable): and because we're working as a team,

[3:11:05] Planner Chadwick (probable): we know that these are available to us

[3:11:07] Planner Chadwick (probable): to inform the other major projects, so.

[3:11:10] Planner Chadwick (probable): So, right.

[3:11:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you. Any other comments on that one?

[3:11:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): All right. The next one is tool seven, the annotated bibliography of housing reports.

[3:11:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): Any questions on that one? Trustee Allen?

[3:11:34] Trustee Allen (probable): It's not really a question. It's page 40, the affordable and special needs housing, the unknown date.

[3:11:45] Trustee Allen (probable): it's actually it's a really nice it's a good i know it's when they say convoluted and

[3:11:53] Trustee Allen (probable): but it visually it it would be really great if we could redo this and update it because i thought

[3:11:59] Trustee Allen (probable): it was a really good you know instead of all these words you can just visually see

[3:12:03] Trustee Allen (probable): how the approval process goes so um i'm not sure whether we have anything like this

[3:12:12] Trustee Allen (probable): in our up-to-date Islands Trust materials or not. I had not had a chance to look for

[3:12:18] Trustee Allen (probable): anything that looks like this at all. So do we have something like that that's a little more

[3:12:22] Trustee Allen (probable): updated? Or has anybody else looked at this and thought maybe it'd be useful to actually

[3:12:26] Trustee Allen (probable): update it and make

[3:12:28] Voice 8: it a little more modern?

[3:12:30] Voice 8: Let's see, Chadwick?

[3:12:34] Planner Chadwick (probable): Yeah, so I have a direct response to that question. I also have another comment.

[3:12:38] Planner Chadwick (probable): um so that that work would be part of that second part of the toolkit because that's the work that's

[3:12:44] Planner Chadwick (probable): the stuff that supports the um the non-profits that are um applying for for funding so that

[3:12:51] Planner Chadwick (probable): would be part of that work um um and so the direct question the answer to your question is yes

[3:12:58] Planner Chadwick (probable): we've looked at it we think it needs updating and um um that like i said that that that kind of work

[3:13:04] Planner Chadwick (probable): that's the kind of work that would and it would ultimately become a tool in the toolkit. That's

[3:13:09] Planner Chadwick (probable): why we haven't put it there yet because we know that it needs to be updated but we do see that

[3:13:15] Planner Chadwick (probable): it is useful to have that kind of a visual tool for process. The other comment I just wanted to

[3:13:21] Planner Chadwick (probable): make is that most of these resources are available on the website so before Jason left us he worked

[3:13:33] Planner Chadwick (probable): worked with Morgana, our communications person, to get most of these resources onto our housing

[3:13:42] Planner Chadwick (probable): web page, and they're categorized by LTC or by type of document, so there's a section for needs

[3:13:53] Planner Chadwick (probable): assessments, for example.

[3:14:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay, any other questions? Yeah, there is a lot of material there.

[3:14:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): we'll emphasize the housing action plan and tool six action okay tool eight baseline report

[3:14:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): was there any questions on the baseline report trustee graham thank

[3:14:23] Voice 5: you yeah just um i i note

[3:14:25] Voice 5: on the denman page uh the pepper lane line which this is the section on the table of affordable

[3:14:32] Voice 5: community and supportive multi-family projects there's a question mark where i can fill in the

[3:14:37] Voice 5: question mark and that area should i'm just waiting to see it scroll up it's the table

[3:14:46] Voice 5: there it is

[3:14:49] Voice 8: and there's a question mark denman next where are you

[3:14:59] Voice 5: uh okay so um

[3:15:02] Voice 5: the pepper lane that should be eight you put an eight in

[3:15:06] Voice 8: there and you've got it beautiful

[3:15:15] Voice 8: and the ridge which

[3:15:17] Voice 5: was the very first portable housing which is one i can't give you the address

[3:15:24] Voice 5: but it's one it's

[3:15:26] Voice 8: a rental one rental and it has been built and occupied am i born the one person

[3:15:42] Voice 5: just one well i don't know them that well to answer that question i

[3:15:47] Voice 4: mean that the tenant

[3:15:48] Voice 4: has been the same for the entire time

[3:15:50] Voice 5: yes the tenants have not changed that's right

[3:15:53] Voice 4: perfect

[3:15:54] Voice 4: thank you

[3:15:54] Voice 5: yeah so other than that it's a

[3:15:57] Voice 8: good document trustee allen yeah

[3:16:11] Trustee Allen (probable): um just a just a

[3:16:13] Trustee Allen (probable): little detailed thing of page 62 and 63 the one and gabriella the the definitions are not

[3:16:20] Trustee Allen (probable): alphabetical order that's the only but the other ones are and then i'm i can't answer those

[3:16:30] Trustee Allen (probable): question marks for Hornby Island right now because we're in a yeah

[3:16:34] Voice 8: I will hopefully only

[3:16:35] Voice 8: have an answer in the next month I think

[3:16:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): there's a lot of information here I think one of the

[3:16:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): comments I'd have is as you're looking at your build-out analysis and some of that is the

[3:16:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): questions um where we have allowed cottages and suites and so forth for for um full-time

[3:16:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): residential use what's the uptake been like you know is it happening um are they getting used

[3:17:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): and built or are they ending up you know airbnbs for short-term use um so

[3:17:17] Voice 8: it's i don't know if

[3:17:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): we're intended to capture that but i think that's that's going to be important data and it's one of

[3:17:26] Voice 8: of those trend things that can change okay any other questions on really this report it goes for

[3:17:39] Voice 8: a lot of pages up

[3:17:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): uh trustee elliot welcome back hi

[3:17:46] Voice 17: everybody i apologize um can you hear me okay

[3:17:49] Voice 17: yes um yes uh that point of analysis i'm i'm wondering if it needs to be uh it's not a tool

[3:17:59] Voice 17: Or, like, I don't think it really belongs in Tool 8, which is a baseline report. So here are the policies and here are the definitions. Here are the different approaches being tried. What is the result? I think is an equally important question, because exactly that.

[3:18:19] Voice 17: We could have had 600-plus long-term rental units on Gabriela Island when properties over five acres were allowed to have another accessory primary dwelling.

[3:18:34] Voice 17: But the uptake on it was pitiful.

[3:18:38] Voice 17: And I shouldn't say that.

[3:18:40] Voice 17: That's a judgment call.

[3:18:41] Voice 17: It's almost non-existent.

[3:18:45] Voice 17: So where does that belong?

[3:18:46] Voice 17: Because it's great to have policies, but how do they work out or how have they worked out in communities is equally important information because as other communities are considering, oh, well, Gabriela's got this policy, sounds great.

[3:19:02] Voice 17: the qualifiers that need to be considered cost of building people aren't incentivized to be

[3:19:13] Voice 17: landlords all of these things have to be taken into consideration for some other community to

[3:19:21] Voice 17: say oh that's a successful tool or a successful

[3:19:24] Voice 8: policy approach marissa chadwick yeah

[3:19:32] Planner Chadwick (probable): i i wanted

[3:19:33] Planner Chadwick (probable): So I think the purpose of this tool or this report is not to blindly cut and paste bylaws, that it gives an indication of some opportunities and absolutely there are probably many that are not necessarily, not the best in there.

[3:19:55] Planner Chadwick (probable): And of the lists of ones, there are some that are much better than others.

[3:20:02] Planner Chadwick (probable): But what this does is it really does provide an opportunity to think about the different approaches.

[3:20:08] Planner Chadwick (probable): And ultimately, like, I mean, my vision for this document is that it ends up being 10 pages.

[3:20:16] Planner Chadwick (probable): And then under each one of those categories, you have the very best bylaw.

[3:20:22] Planner Chadwick (probable): law. But I think we're sort of at least a decade out from that. But over time, it could get to a

[3:20:31] Planner Chadwick (probable): place where we have the ones that we know are the best. But for now, we're just sort of starting

[3:20:39] Planner Chadwick (probable): with the raw materials. That's the way I sort of look at it.

[3:20:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah. I think we have room for

[3:20:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): improvement. We should be monitoring. As these bylaws are created, we've got to find a way to

[3:20:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): monitor and analyze um the success of because there's both there's both success but there

[3:20:58] Trustee Patrick (probable): could also be i hate these words unintended consequences you thought this was going to

[3:21:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): happen but that happened and we don't know that if we don't we don't watch and uh keep keep track

[3:21:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee allen

[3:21:10] Trustee Allen (probable): yeah i just want to follow up what you said chair in terms of uh we uh legalized

[3:21:16] Trustee Allen (probable): secondary suites being last term and not one person one individual has uptaked it which is

[3:21:24] Trustee Allen (probable): really interesting i'm not sure what that means i mean it is for large properties obviously not

[3:21:29] Trustee Allen (probable): smaller little properties that can do that but i was really surprised i thought we'd have a

[3:21:34] Trustee Allen (probable): slew of people so we do need to uh monitor what's going on you know what we're legalizing nobody

[3:21:42] Trustee Allen (probable): nobody even wants to do it. So yeah, it's, it's an interesting story.

[3:21:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yes, it is. All right.

[3:21:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): So that brings us to the finalist tool nine, which is just the profiles.

[3:22:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Graham.

[3:22:03] Voice 5: I just think it needs a title.

[3:22:08] Voice 8: I couldn't find it.

[3:22:13] Voice 8: Absolutely.

[3:22:17] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think there's a lot of trend data. I mean,

[3:22:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): it's like I went back to the 2009 housing needs assessment on Salt Spring

[3:22:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): and the the forecasted growth that was made then was all bang on until the pandemic there was a

[3:22:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): clear pandemic bump um and i think you know always being able to look at these trends and have this

[3:22:38] Trustee Patrick (probable): data kind of coming together looking year over year or just to the last you know census is we

[3:22:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): may be either missing things too and and seeing how how good are we at understanding the growth

[3:22:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): and what's happening on our islands and what that growth is made up of and and um i encourage all of

[3:22:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): you to spend some time going through the detail profiles of the census data on your on your

[3:23:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): islands it's you you learn a new story every time you go in and and look at it uh narissa

[3:23:12] Planner Chadwick (probable): um yeah i just want to point out that these are draft um that we have um had another so

[3:23:19] Planner Chadwick (probable): So these were done by one staff person.

[3:23:20] Planner Chadwick (probable): We've had a double check by other staff person.

[3:23:25] Planner Chadwick (probable): And so some of the numbers may be updated.

[3:23:28] Planner Chadwick (probable): So before you sort of print them off and share them,

[3:23:34] Planner Chadwick (probable): that's why they're not on our website yet.

[3:23:38] Planner Chadwick (probable): Before you sort of go out and share them,

[3:23:40] Planner Chadwick (probable): just check in with us and we'll let you know whether,

[3:23:45] Planner Chadwick (probable): you can see the like very light draft thing in there.

[3:23:51] Voice 10: And Hornby and Laskiti have now been drafted.

[3:23:55] Voice 10: So

[3:23:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): they

[3:23:56] Voice 10: just weren't available last week.

[3:23:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): There's some very interesting ways to look at this because it does tell you like percentage of renter owned.

[3:24:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): And if you look at over time, you'll see you can see where the numbers are changing.

[3:24:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): And especially when you compare it to like dwellings that are reported that they have.

[3:24:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): And then how many are, you know, like what's available or what's being rented on our island.

[3:24:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): You can just see the number just going down to hardly any, especially in single-family homes, because they're being used by others.

[3:24:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): And the data shows that story.

[3:24:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Elliott?

[3:24:34] Voice 17: So two points on this.

[3:24:36] Voice 17: Why would we not have a column for 2018 or 17 census beside this so we can see the trend from the last census?

[3:24:48] Voice 17: and um the second point

[3:24:51] Voice 8: kind

[3:24:52] Voice 17: of to trustee boland's um boland's points about

[3:24:58] Voice 17: having pdfs that are you know all attached together and and nested um you know how useful

[3:25:05] Voice 17: is this as a report that you know was drafted in 2023 and there's definitely an importance of

[3:25:11] Voice 17: of having a final draft of this is the baseline in 2023

[3:25:15] Voice 17: and it's all together.

[3:25:18] Voice 17: But as these things change,

[3:25:21] Voice 17: perhaps we could talk to communications

[3:25:23] Voice 17: about pulling out the different sections

[3:25:26] Voice 17: so that they could live as live website pages

[3:25:31] Voice 17: and then be more easily updated.

[3:25:33] Voice 17: So as communities go through OCP and LUB changes,

[3:25:36] Voice 17: those definitions are updated as well,

[3:25:41] Voice 17: but not just in a pdf document all

[3:25:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): right nurse um

[3:25:48] Planner Chadwick (probable): yeah just wanted to point out where this uh

[3:25:51] Planner Chadwick (probable): where the template came from we were we were building off uh um of uh canadian planning

[3:25:58] Planner Chadwick (probable): institute uh best practices um for housing template so um the key so that the key stats

[3:26:07] Planner Chadwick (probable): that uh are sort of recommended to include in a profile um are the ones that we we chose so there

[3:26:12] Planner Chadwick (probable): wasn't a that was that was that that that just is an explanation of why we've got the numbers that

[3:26:18] Planner Chadwick (probable): we've got here um and we've um included so the pot that the um um the population change and the

[3:26:27] Planner Chadwick (probable): dwelling change are the i guess the only stats that sort of provide that insight to how things

[3:26:33] Planner Chadwick (probable): um have changed over time and those ones are um are chosen because those are very significant

[3:26:39] Planner Chadwick (probable): ones for funders um they tell they tell a really big story and um i just would say like i i i have

[3:26:49] Planner Chadwick (probable): um personally found it found it very interesting very useful um to have those ready like at the

[3:26:56] Planner Chadwick (probable): ready um to be able to have conversations um i've been having conversations about the housing

[3:27:02] Planner Chadwick (probable): accelerator fund they've asked me those questions specifically and i was like oh yeah i can bring

[3:27:07] Planner Chadwick (probable): this up and i've got it so anyways i just thought i'd give you a little background on where the

[3:27:10] Planner Chadwick (probable): the template came from

[3:27:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): thank you trustee graham yeah

[3:27:17] Voice 5: i really like these reports um they're clear

[3:27:20] Voice 5: and and those numbers just jump out um one thing that would that i would find interesting and it

[3:27:25] Voice 5: may not be appropriate to add one page of just what the bc average numbers are for all those

[3:27:31] Voice 5: categories just i think just to show the unique uh struggles that the islands are going through

[3:27:39] Voice 5: with an aging population i think that would be interesting but maybe just to me well thank you

[3:27:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): all of us yes uh trust uh narissa uh

[3:27:50] Planner Chadwick (probable): yeah i i i think stephan might be able to speak more more

[3:27:53] Planner Chadwick (probable): confident confidently to this but i i understand we we might have um we've got some other statistics

[3:28:00] Planner Chadwick (probable): that um claire has been working on putting together and um those show because i also had

[3:28:06] Planner Chadwick (probable): seen that may read had sent a comment about um how it'd be interesting to see the comparison

[3:28:11] Planner Chadwick (probable): and i understand that that information will include the comparisons um as well but i'm not

[3:28:17] Planner Chadwick (probable): quite sure where that is but um i think stephan might have some insight on that so

[3:28:27] Voice 12: to the chair

[3:28:28] Voice 12: yes uh yeah so my update would be that i did actually see them this week um we've had we've

[3:28:34] Voice 12: got those those stats and we've got the updated sort of uh resources make them look pretty i don't

[3:28:40] Voice 12: know how else to say that improve the readability and they're ready i think to go next week so if

[3:28:45] Voice 12: if i'm wrong it could be the week after that i don't want to put taz in a bad position but

[3:28:49] Voice 12: i think they they've been working on them reviewing them and ready to go so they're going

[3:28:55] Voice 12: to give you an island profile not so much not as much a housing profile but an island profile which

[3:29:00] Voice 12: will complement this in terms and it shows beautifully the histograms that you're probably

[3:29:04] Voice 12: used to seeing about the population spread you know how many cohorts you have of whatever and

[3:29:09] Voice 12: And you can see how the aging population is high

[3:29:12] Voice 12: and it's low in the middle

[3:29:13] Voice 12: and a few baby booms in the middle.

[3:29:14] Voice 12: So that's coming almost imminently.

[3:29:17] Voice 12: Like I said, I reviewed it myself

[3:29:19] Voice 12: for any edits that needed to be,

[3:29:20] Voice 12: and I had none, which is a good thing.

[3:29:22] Voice 12: So coming very shortly.

[3:29:25] Voice 12: And I do believe that it would be ideal

[3:29:27] Voice 12: to then find a way once these drafts get out with those,

[3:29:31] Voice 12: and then you have that baseline data available to each LTC.

[3:29:34] Voice 12: How that goes on the webpage, I'm not 100% sure,

[3:29:37] Voice 12: Sure, but we'll try to make it as easy as possible.

[3:29:39] Voice 12: But that's barring your opinions on the website.

[3:29:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): I hope we're picking up like Gini coefficients too,

[3:29:45] Trustee Patrick (probable): because I've been out looking at other communities

[3:29:47] Trustee Patrick (probable): and what they're reporting.

[3:29:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I looked at Canmore's and Canmore said

[3:29:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): they had the worst income disparity in the country.

[3:29:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): But like Salt Spring's Gini coefficient is worse.

[3:30:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): maybe we're the worst in the country. I'm not sure. But having these data and seeing how some

[3:30:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): of the communities are using this data to their advantage when they're applying for housing

[3:30:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): accelerator funds by saying, hey, we're the worst. We've got some bad numbers here. And we're trying

[3:30:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): to do it in an ecologically sensitive area, but we have communities that aren't healthy.

[3:30:27] Voice 12: Indeed. I don't think that specific was in there, but certainly you'll get it back and you'll be

[3:30:31] Voice 12: able to critique it and ask for a little bit more input and analysis all

[3:30:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): right so that brings us

[3:30:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): through all the tools that you have got so far are there any other comments on the overall tools

[3:30:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): what's that oh did

[3:30:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): i miss tool 10 well we saw it we had it earlier but sorry different agencies

[3:31:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): involved ah thank you thank you yes that chair chart and i think that was uh uh who was that

[3:31:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): was that trustee graham who suggested that uh you be added individuals yes trustee graham

[3:31:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): so can you

[3:31:23] Trustee Allen (probable): clarify that again what exactly did you want there trustee graham oh

[3:31:27] Trustee Patrick (probable): where it says

[3:31:28] Trustee Patrick (probable): says private yeah

[3:31:29] Voice 8: that

[3:31:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah we might want to make that clear um but because yeah that we're talking

[3:31:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): about islanders yeah make sure that they're not thinking oh private money or private developers

[3:31:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): or private someone that we're also talking about individual islanders that are stepping up what you

[3:31:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): can do and i know that burnaby does that in their housing materials they show what you can do and i

[3:32:04] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think that's important on our islands.

[3:32:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): I agree.

[3:32:14] Trustee Allen (probable): So I'd say it's a really great package, to be honest.

[3:32:17] Trustee Allen (probable): I think it's, I think we did a good job.

[3:32:21] Trustee Allen (probable): First draft, frankly.

[3:32:23] Trustee Allen (probable): All right.

[3:32:28] Voice 17: Yes.

[3:32:30] Voice 9: No, I'm here.

[3:32:31] Voice 17: I'm saying yes.

[3:32:33] Voice 17: Absolutely, Alex.

[3:32:34] Voice 17: I'm with you.

[3:32:34] Voice 17: It's a fabulous foundational document.

[3:32:37] Voice 5: There's my guardian.

[3:32:40] Voice 17: Dusty Graham?

[3:32:41] Voice 5: I just wanted to reiterate that.

[3:32:43] Voice 5: I mean, coming from an island which is deeply into a housing review, this is just a goldmine of information that I know that our Housing Advisory Planning Commission will be pouring through.

[3:32:54] Voice 5: And I hope community members that are interested will also become, I hope to have the most informed community information meeting that we've ever had on Denman.

[3:33:03] Voice 5: That's my hope.

[3:33:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): Good to have goals.

[3:33:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): Okay, then.

[3:33:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): So I think next steps is the important question there.

[3:33:16] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I don't know,

[3:33:21] Trustee Patrick (probable): Bethan, you did have sort of some next steps

[3:33:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): in your PowerPoint initially.

[3:33:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): Did you want to review what you were hoping next steps are?

[3:33:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): Do you want to hear next steps from what our hopes are?

[3:33:35] Voice 12: Thank you.

[3:33:36] Voice 12: I did have them in there,

[3:33:37] Voice 12: but of course my login went sleepy on me.

[3:33:40] Voice 12: So if you can bear with me for a second

[3:33:42] Voice 12: while i open it up again we i just will i'll just refresh your memory of what we what we've

[3:33:48] Voice 12: suggested next steps were and then of course you're you're free to guide us as you wish

[3:33:54] Voice 12: you just open that up questions oops next steps okay so i'm going to share my screen again

[3:34:06] Voice 8: and i'll just blow that up before i do okay i assume

[3:34:16] Voice 12: you can see the powerpoint says next steps

[3:34:19] Voice 12: So, information services, that's what I, summary of mapping initiatives, you've got that. Discuss

[3:34:25] Voice 12: the toolkit, you've done that. Discuss strategy, haven't quite done that. And then September RPC

[3:34:31] Voice 12: meeting, staff are preparing, of course, the business cases as requested. I would like to

[3:34:37] Voice 12: get you a final draft of the toolkit. I'm getting a big Zoom warning. And then at the RPC meeting,

[3:34:44] Voice 12: meeting, further discussion about a housing strategy, which is really saying, how do we,

[3:34:50] Voice 12: where do we focus? Now you've got part one of the toolkit is pretty much finished.

[3:34:54] Voice 12: Do you want us to proceed with part two? How does that integrate with the housing strategy that you

[3:34:59] Voice 12: have a draft of? And how does that integrate with a trust council strategic plan, which

[3:35:05] Voice 12: it's hard for me to wrap my head between the resolution they made in June and what we have

[3:35:10] Voice 12: have now so those are next steps for for september to think about and future meetings uh happy to

[3:35:15] Voice 12: have those discussions now as you wish chair and rpc all

[3:35:19] Trustee Patrick (probable): right i see trustee elliott's hand raised

[3:35:23] Voice 17: um i think it would be helpful to discuss broadly strategy but um can we go back to the

[3:35:30] Voice 17: april may whatever meeting it was june meeting agenda where we had the the layout of of sort of

[3:35:38] Voice 17: a trust-wide trust council endorsed strategy versus i can't remember the other options um

[3:35:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): you're talking about the staff report that was to the working group

[3:35:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): i think it was a you had i thought it was um what what i think it was to the working group

[3:35:56] Voice 16: oh oh i thought we discussed it no maybe we didn't okay let me i don't

[3:36:04] Voice 12: have it open but

[3:36:06] Voice 12: perhaps uh planner chadwick or robert has it at their fingertips or has the the memory of the

[3:36:11] Voice 12: i have

[3:36:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): it open hi i'm

[3:36:20] Voice 12: back uh so sorry about that if my zoom keeps on sending me warning messages

[3:36:26] Voice 12: um yeah i don't know planner chadwick do you have that were you at that presentation with

[3:36:31] Voice 12: planner yeomans i

[3:36:33] Planner Chadwick (probable): was at that presentation um i don't have the particular slide up my

[3:36:37] Planner Chadwick (probable): my fingertips. I do

[3:36:40] Voice 17: have the memo now, and it was in the cover. So sorry, construction zone here.

[3:36:54] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, I do have it, and I think I can read it. I'm not going to attempt to share screen,

[3:37:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): but there were some options provided regarding the, what, for next steps, and the options were

[3:37:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): um that the is this the strategy and toolkits i think that you guys were discussing whether

[3:37:18] Trustee Patrick (probable): they should be developed by regional planning committee housing strategy owned by the regional

[3:37:24] Trustee Patrick (probable): planning committee implemented by the planning staff assigned to support the rpc or developed

[3:37:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): an islands trust housing strategy owned by trust council with the implementation by executive staff

[3:37:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): or local trust committees and planning staff as directed by trust council.

[3:37:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): I know as chair here, I do have some opinions and I don't think,

[3:37:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): I think we are a creature of trust council.

[3:37:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): This is a committee that serves trust council or advises trust council.

[3:38:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): And I think strategies, any strategy developed should belong,

[3:38:06] Trustee Patrick (probable): should be a trust council strategy.

[3:38:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): I could see the regional planning committee implementing the strategy or

[3:38:13] Trustee Patrick (probable): monitoring and maintaining the strategy and and um but i i think it's much stronger if trust council

[3:38:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): is the owner

[3:38:22] Voice 8: i don't know how others feel i think everyone's getting tired

[3:38:32] Voice 8: if

[3:38:35] Voice 17: it's helpful uh chair maybe we could email that to all the members um just those two or

[3:38:42] Voice 17: three paragraphs because the rationale of um staff suggesting pursuing option one

[3:38:49] Voice 17: I think there's some good discussion there for sure I do agree with you that having a trust

[3:38:55] Voice 17: council-wide strategy is better for buy-in but I'm wondering I'm always about efficiency like

[3:39:03] Voice 17: what is the quickest way to get something done and I kind of thought option two or sorry option

[3:39:09] Voice 17: one owned by the regional planning committee and implemented by planning staff so I would like to

[3:39:14] Voice 17: to have a discussion on that, but I think maybe we need to send that out and people could consider

[3:39:21] Voice 17: it maybe for September. Stefan?

[3:39:27] Voice 12: Yeah. So I keep encouraging debate or discussion, pardon me. And

[3:39:32] Voice 12: I just want to remind you about that trust council resolution that was to adopt the interim strategic

[3:39:36] Voice 12: plan to update initiatives related to housing that will do all those things that it says to do

[3:39:43] Voice 12: through a couple lenses and so i think since that discussion with the rp or with the working group

[3:39:49] Voice 12: that resolution has come into play and so i honestly we don't have an answer for you at

[3:39:54] Voice 12: this moment to how the two intersect but you know keep having a discussion i think it behooves us

[3:39:59] Voice 12: regardless of staff to come back to this committee to try to at least tease that apart to see how

[3:40:06] Voice 12: does that resolution of trust council play into next steps of the housing strategy so

[3:40:10] Voice 12: So, you know, of course, our thoughts will be influenced by what you direct us to do and look into.

[3:40:15] Voice 12: But I think we have to get that back to you one way or another, whether it's at the September RPC meeting or the following RPC meeting or what have you.

[3:40:22] Voice 12: But it's in play is what I'm saying.

[3:40:24] Voice 12: Or it's a live resolution.

[3:40:25] Voice 12: I don't know what the right term is for that.

[3:40:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): Yeah, because, I mean, the resolution that Trust Council, basically, we kind of got out ahead of Trust Council by passing the motion we said of updating.

[3:40:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): We were going to work on a series of tools that did those things.

[3:40:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): Now we've got Trust Council's endorsement.

[3:40:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): It's part of the strategy for Trust Council.

[3:40:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): But we don't have a resolution saying, and the Regional Planning Committee should go do this.

[3:40:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): That's what we're missing.

[3:40:58] Voice 12: Exactly.

[3:40:58] Voice 12: If I may jump in there, I think what we need is for a little bit more clarity about how that resolution plays for the RPC and what the RPC would like the Trust Council to endorse.

[3:41:07] Voice 12: So eventually you've got to get to a point that if you're going to continue with the strategy, that the Trust Council does endorse your vision of it.

[3:41:15] Voice 12: and be conscious that that interim strategy is only valid until the end of next fiscal.

[3:41:19] Voice 12: So there's a bit of fancy footing going on if we get there, although you don't have to have all the answers for September because we know you won't.

[3:41:26] Voice 12: But at least have a starting place, and then we can have that discussion again December at Trust Council, and then perhaps again in March if you need to get that clarity.

[3:41:33] Voice 12: I

[3:41:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): think we probably, I think I wouldn't be on a limb if I said I think this, everyone on this committee would agree that when we, when Trust Council does get around to a new strategic plan, I would be absolutely shocked if housing was not one of the key priorities that came through that process.

[3:41:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): Trustee Luckham.

[3:41:58] Voice 4: Yeah, I'm prepared to assume that housing will be part of the corporate strategic plan going forward.

[3:42:07] Voice 4: and that I think it is beneficial for this committee

[3:42:14] Voice 4: to take this as far as they possibly can

[3:42:18] Voice 4: in terms of a plan to implement the strategy

[3:42:24] Voice 4: and then take that to council to seek their endorsement.

[3:42:30] Voice 4: And so that we answer potentially answer all the questions

[3:42:33] Voice 4: that council might have with respect to this

[3:42:36] Voice 4: and how it's going to be implemented and what might potentially cost, et cetera, et cetera,

[3:42:39] Voice 4: but flush it all out, take that, do endorse the Regional Planning Committee continuing

[3:42:47] Voice 4: through to implementation of this project, and then, ideally, budgeting it in whatever

[3:42:52] Voice 4: fashion is necessary.

[3:42:55] Voice 4: The committee, you know, I say this, it's been said a lot lately, the committees are

[3:42:59] Voice 4: the workhorses and it just uh uh responds to trustee elliott's deficiencies um it can be

[3:43:07] Voice 4: way more effective at this smaller table than at the full council because of course

[3:43:11] Voice 4: all kinds of other things come into play and not everybody has the full understanding of

[3:43:16] Voice 4: the conversation that you've had here today which is amazing so thank you that's my suggestion

[3:43:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): all right so thank you so i think in some ways i think stat will be discussing this more in

[3:43:29] Trustee Patrick (probable): September if I would, is that correct Stefan?

[3:43:33] Voice 12: That's right because you have those business

[3:43:37] Voice 12: cases that you'll need to begin advancing to the financial planning committee for October

[3:43:42] Voice 12: and one of the ones that you've asked for this group is where to go, you've okay you've asked

[3:43:50] Voice 12: for housing needs, what am I doing here allocated funds for no for a housing needs assessment

[3:43:56] Voice 12: there's going to be a business request for that and advancing the housing option strategy and

[3:44:00] Voice 12: toolkit so you've already asked that work to be done you've already directed staff to continue

[3:44:04] Voice 12: so we need no further direction but we do need as a matter of process to get a business case to you

[3:44:10] Voice 12: or to think about for september to advance to fpc in october so that's going to happen so i guess

[3:44:17] Voice 12: all we really need to know then is if if we're going to continue on the path that we've started

[3:44:22] Voice 12: on and you know i think for the most part i wouldn't want to change directions too drastically

[3:44:27] Voice 12: because we don't really have a lot of staff to work on that so you're going to see a very familiar

[3:44:31] Voice 12: looking strategy returning to you and then what we'll try to do is cost it out as much as possible

[3:44:36] Voice 12: what's going to take to continue that work into the next fiscal and one further reminder about

[3:44:42] Voice 12: resources because i love to talk about resources is um we'll hopefully be getting a little bit of

[3:44:48] Voice 12: extra um planning time like i said in september from our new hire mary who will be getting up to

[3:44:54] Voice 12: to speed and she'll be coming back from vacation and she'll have been working on the policy

[3:44:58] Voice 12: statement and we anticipate uh using some of her time oh there's my goodness and using some of her

[3:45:04] Voice 12: time in september to advance this project that was very uh strategic of you mary that's

[3:45:11] sorry

[3:45:12] Voice 12: i'll just stop laughing say this is mary storger maybe you want to introduce yourself to

[3:45:17] Voice 12: the group

[3:45:19] Voice 14: sure i can um been really enjoying the conversation today obviously i'm getting

[3:45:24] Voice 14: myself up to speed just uh here a couple weeks i come over um with uh experience from a ministry

[3:45:31] Voice 14: uh working there in the province at the municipal affairs for many years and with energy mines and

[3:45:37] Voice 14: low carbon innovation most recently i am a community planner and i'm just super thrilled

[3:45:41] Voice 14: to be here and lots to learn lots to know and i'm excited to to work on this with all of you

[3:45:47] Voice 14: so thanks welcome

[3:45:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): very much uh to the team and uh you'll see yes i think housing is

[3:45:55] Trustee Patrick (probable): highly passionate to all of us and we need everyone all hands on deck

[3:46:02] Voice 4: welcome aboard mary all

[3:46:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): right so any other next steps that you need feedback on then besides this

[3:46:10] Trustee Patrick (probable): we kind of went down the strategy one there stephan i

[3:46:14] Voice 12: just turned off my my thing again

[3:46:15] Voice 12: Anne, I just pooped out. Sorry. Maybe I'll turn to Robert to catch. Is there anything we need,

[3:46:20] Voice 12: Robert? And make sure I don't forget something because this is, yeah, I don't know what's

[3:46:25] Voice 12: happening with my computer. So I'm going to turn to Robert for a second and see if I can get that

[3:46:28] Voice 12: back.

[3:46:28] Voice 10: I think we would benefit from just hearing about the committee members' thoughts on doing

[3:46:34] Voice 10: sort of part two of the toolkit, the tools that would be created for the benefit of applicants

[3:46:43] Voice 10: for affordable housing applications and whether we should devote resources to that or not

[3:46:49] Trustee Patrick (probable): yes

[3:46:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): well uh for the benefit of the rest of the committee i thought i shared a report from

[3:46:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): the southern gulf island tourism partnership that did a report for a housing um grant application

[3:47:03] Trustee Patrick (probable): last year uh that did really focus on sort of the housing applicants and what help they needed and

[3:47:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): what the islands trust could do it was a huge issue um that you know there was opportunities

[3:47:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): for us to to improve that we have improved greatly the feedback i'm receiving from applicants on

[3:47:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): salt spring is we have improved um and i think this is an area that we need to make better yet

[3:47:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): but let's hear what everyone else has to say trustee graham yeah

[3:47:31] Voice 5: thank you um there there is

[3:47:34] Voice 5: a very strong uh feeling on them and that that the the trust has failed them

[3:47:39] Voice 9: and

[3:47:40] Voice 5: put up all these

[3:47:40] Voice 5: roadblocks to the two large affordable housing projects that some have said have taken decades

[3:47:48] Voice 5: which of course is an exaggeration so i do believe we have a we have a lot of work to do

[3:47:54] Voice 5: to not fall into that pit again of of and and to be fair even our best work will always be

[3:48:02] Voice 5: criticized by some percentage of of the island but but let's try and do the best that we can to

[3:48:08] Voice 5: prepare applicants for the road that they are about to embark on and and let's let's um let's

[3:48:15] Voice 5: over deliver and under promise uh that's always a pretty good place to start thanks wise words

[3:48:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): trustee

[3:48:23] Voice 8: luckham um

[3:48:25] Voice 4: yeah absolutely if uh the most heartbreaking thing to have witnessed on more than

[3:48:31] Voice 4: one occasion is when a community group makes a huge effort to accomplish something and are so

[3:48:36] Voice 4: proud of the work that they want to do and they find that there's delays or additional expenses

[3:48:41] Voice 4: that weren't anticipated and i think that was the theme of my message earlier on and so my only

[3:48:47] Voice 4: question i have a question here i was surprised to not see it more flushed out in this report

[3:48:51] Voice 4: and admittedly there's never enough hours in the day i'll accept that um but um is there some

[3:48:57] Voice 4: some hesitancy what's the from the staff perspective what's the downside to doing this

[3:49:03] Voice 4: piece which i think is so important i'll

[3:49:08] Voice 12: jump in there and i'll take the brave one so i think

[3:49:10] Voice 12: there's there's no real we listed the items that we've heard and this is you know came from the

[3:49:15] Voice 12: south south southern gulf islands tourism group uh as well as again what the annotated bibliography

[3:49:22] Voice 12: was a scan of what we heard from other people and and lessons learned as you saw in your tool

[3:49:27] Voice 12: late from all the various applications that came through so you have a list that was generated from

[3:49:32] Voice 12: that and there's it's easier for staff to immediately work help the ltc take the broad

[3:49:39] Voice 12: strokes it needs because rezoning applications tend to be one-on-one and that they're very useful

[3:49:44] Voice 12: but there tends to be a lot of resources applied in the current planning process for that and first

[3:49:49] Voice 12: step is staff helping them and recommending they get a planner to help speak planner speak for

[3:49:55] Voice 12: themselves but you're we're talking about the toolkit part one is uh what the ltcs can do on

[3:50:01] Voice 12: a broad scope like really do you know your own work so it just we had that information it was

[3:50:07] Voice 12: the best place for us to start and it was the best place we could make quick progress with the

[3:50:10] Voice 12: resources we had so we stopped there because we lost the resource to keep working really

[3:50:15] Voice 12: and so we were able to tidy up what we're working on the parts that we're able to continue on are

[3:50:20] Voice 12: the mapping as you saw from mark so we right now don't have any allocated resources to continuing

[3:50:25] Voice 12: this project so we had to stop somewhere and so then when we stop and we look and we talk

[3:50:30] Voice 12: it's like well is this a value to once we get those resources applied in this area or would

[3:50:36] Voice 12: you rather us go away and talk about something else such as i don't know shoreline zoning or

[3:50:40] Voice 12: mapping or all the other things that are going to come to your table so it's a matter of just

[3:50:45] Voice 12: Just we had, we were lucky to get those resources.

[3:50:48] Voice 12: We applied them rigorously to get the product you have.

[3:50:51] Voice 12: We may not be so lucky in the very near future,

[3:50:54] Voice 12: but you just met Mary.

[3:50:55] Voice 12: I just saw her, she popped up and popped away.

[3:50:57] Voice 12: So we're going to try to help use her skillset

[3:50:59] Voice 12: as much as possible from September

[3:51:02] Voice 12: through to Christmas type thing.

[3:51:03] Voice 12: Cause she's, it's a temporary assignment

[3:51:05] Voice 12: till January that she's with us.

[3:51:07] Voice 12: And so that's what we're trying to do.

[3:51:09] Voice 12: So we're just, we're just pulling from where we can.

[3:51:11] Voice 12: So that's the hesitancy chair,

[3:51:13] Voice 12: locum or ex officio locum that we just had to pause where we had to because we had no further

[3:51:19] Voice 12: resources and so for us to go forward we want to be sure that once we get the more resources

[3:51:24] Voice 12: that's where you want us to proceed as opposed to you know somewhere else right

[3:51:29] Voice 8: how

[3:51:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): much like i said i think there would be a huge benefit to talk to all of the housing you know

[3:51:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): either ones that just finished or the ones that are in process if there's choices to be made

[3:51:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): which choices which of those tools would help the most um so if we only have limited resources

[3:51:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): if we can improve something you know what what's what's causing the most frustration to them

[3:51:56] Trustee Patrick (probable): and what would what would benefit is it the housing need you know the housing agreements

[3:52:00] Trustee Patrick (probable): that are out of date and you know that's the the area that i don't know i think we'd be guessing

[3:52:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): i think we've got a good resource of all of these folks that have been working on these

[3:52:09] Trustee Patrick (probable): projects and having direct experience to say if you could pick one which one would it be or which

[3:52:15] Trustee Patrick (probable): two would rank them um it would be interesting results and i think that wouldn't take a lot of

[3:52:20] Trustee Patrick (probable): time they're they they want to help and i and there was also you know we've heard a lot of

[3:52:25] Trustee Patrick (probable): criticism of having well maybe if we had one planner that was dealing with all these applications

[3:52:30] Trustee Patrick (probable): that alone would make the biggest difference so where where is the investment dollars best

[3:52:36] Trustee Patrick (probable): best directed to help those applicants let's talk to them because

[3:52:46] Voice 8: they'll tell you so

[3:52:52] Trustee Patrick (probable): is that

[3:52:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): something we would need to direct you know ask you because i see this is a that low cost you know

[3:52:59] Trustee Patrick (probable): pick up the phone or create a simple survey you know do something to talk to them well

[3:53:07] Voice 12: if i may

[3:53:08] Voice 12: respond to that i certainly think those communications it might be a bit challenging

[3:53:11] Voice 12: in august right as various staff members and other people are going on holiday and to be able to

[3:53:17] Voice 12: report back by september um so but what i'm hearing is a great idea is to prioritize if we can't do

[3:53:23] Voice 12: them all which ones to prioritize and um yeah i certainly think we all have connections we could

[3:53:29] Voice 12: pull on i just don't know if you know august is the best time to try to jump in and do this

[3:53:33] Voice 12: communication but we can start um and i think what i've asked here is that i saw a lot of nods

[3:53:40] Voice 12: general consensus is fine for for staff if that if it's the general consensus of the regional

[3:53:46] Voice 12: planning committee to prioritize uh the the various tools in part two by engaging with um

[3:53:52] Voice 12: you know known stakeholders or that's the wrong term these days with known partners in affordable

[3:53:56] Voice 12: housing projects i'll take that by consensus as long as it's captured in the notes i'll see it

[3:54:01] Voice 12: there and as well the rest of the regional planning team super

[3:54:05] Trustee Patrick (probable): i think that's good uh trustee

[3:54:08] Trustee Patrick (probable): graham you had your hand i

[3:54:10] Voice 5: just wanted to support that i mean we have two really amazing groups on

[3:54:15] Voice 5: them and they both achieved rezoning neither of them have the funding to build what they

[3:54:20] Voice 5: can now build but they've gone through the process and they will tell you

[3:54:26] Voice 5: they'll be happy to write you a report and i i think that would be such an easy i mean i

[3:54:30] Voice 5: personally could go could could ask them you know the planning department is curious to know if you

[3:54:37] Voice 5: would give us your your your uh feedback on how how it went i mean if you want to do that i could

[3:54:44] Voice 5: I could jump on that right away.

[3:54:48] Voice 12: Yeah, or I think that's a great idea,

[3:54:51] Voice 12: but I think the key message would be

[3:54:52] Voice 12: if we could prioritize helping the next application,

[3:54:55] Voice 12: how would you envision that?

[3:54:57] Voice 12: Like, where would our priorities,

[3:54:59] Voice 12: how could we help with limited resources?

[3:55:01] Voice 12: What tool could we develop to help you?

[3:55:03] Voice 12: And I think our presentation had the various tools

[3:55:08] Voice 12: that we had envisioned.

[3:55:09] Voice 12: And again, that was based on feedback.

[3:55:13] Voice 12: So, right?

[3:55:14] Voice 12: Right. So we talked

[3:55:14] Voice 12: about updating affordable housing agreement templates, terms of reference templates, water management plan templates, proof of water guide, the application process guide, making it more modernized, pre-development cost charge.

[3:55:29] Voice 12: So that list is there. And if you could choose, like prioritize that, that'd be a great exercise to just get them to rank that.

[3:55:37] Trustee Patrick (probable): Or if something's missing.

[3:55:38] Voice 12: Of course, of course.

[3:55:40] Voice 12: yeah

[3:55:40] Trustee Patrick (probable): oh yeah no i like said i think that's a good time and i think you would get feedback and

[3:55:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): you never know you might get it in august they're they're

[3:55:51] Trustee Patrick (probable): busy trying to build housing

[3:55:59] Voice 8: all

[3:55:59] Voice 17: right can we help you with that stuff and is there like if you could send us and i'm with you

[3:56:05] Voice 17: trustee graham um let's get that at least out there so even if people are thinking about it

[3:56:12] Voice 17: and can come back in September with their ideas,

[3:56:14] Voice 17: could you maybe shoot us an email with those?

[3:56:18] Voice 12: Yeah, so I think that's a great idea.

[3:56:20] Voice 12: So I could draft an email.

[3:56:21] Voice 12: I'd be happy to do that.

[3:56:22] Voice 12: I'd have to do it tonight

[3:56:23] Voice 12: because otherwise I'm stuck in hospitals all weekend.

[3:56:29] Voice 12: I could fire that off tonight and say,

[3:56:30] Voice 12: hey, could you send this out?

[3:56:31] Voice 12: And I'd send it to all the trustees.

[3:56:33] Voice 12: Say, hey, why don't you send us your feedback

[3:56:35] Voice 12: on the following tools?

[3:56:37] Voice 12: And of course, I know we'll get an earful

[3:56:39] Voice 12: full of other things as we always do.

[3:56:41] Voice 12: Well, I would

[3:56:42] Trustee Patrick (probable): ask that it, yeah,

[3:56:43] Trustee Patrick (probable): it should be asked that it be directed to, you know, housing, you know,

[3:56:46] Trustee Patrick (probable): people that are building housing projects.

[3:56:49] Voice 12: Well, what I'm thinking is that, yeah,

[3:56:50] Voice 12: we send it to the trustees to send out to your contacts.

[3:56:54] Voice 12: Correct.

[3:56:55] Voice 12: And I mean, all trustees, not just the RPC.

[3:56:57] Voice 12: And then same thing with the planning staff.

[3:56:59] Voice 12: And I think amongst the group of us,

[3:57:01] Voice 12: I think we could do a pretty quick turnaround on feedback and let's just see

[3:57:05] Voice 12: what happens. That's a great idea.

[3:57:06] Voice 12: And I can take that on general consent to be happy to get,

[3:57:09] Voice 12: I'm seeing thumbs up everywhere and nodding.

[3:57:11] Trustee Patrick (probable): good all right any other feedback then do you need from us uh

[3:57:19] Voice 12: robert robert's my guru

[3:57:22] Voice 12: of process he

[3:57:23] Voice 12: keeps everyone's

[3:57:23] Trustee Patrick (probable): running on a steam yeah

[3:57:25] Voice 12: we

[3:57:26] Trustee Patrick (probable): should start earlier in the morning

[3:57:29] when

[3:57:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): is our next meeting it's in september i take it does anyone know the date

[3:57:34] Trustee Patrick (probable): september 6th

[3:57:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): september 6th

[3:57:37] Voice 8: coming fast okay

[3:57:44] Trustee Patrick (probable): oops sorry i'm in the wrong thing going back to the

[3:57:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): the agenda to make sure is there any other business than today i

[3:57:53] Voice 5: see ex officio luckham's

[3:57:54] Voice 5: hand has been up for a while i'm not sure if he knows that i

[3:57:57] Trustee Patrick (probable): yeah i think it was a accidental

[3:58:01] Voice 4: over enthusiastic

[3:58:02] Trustee Patrick (probable): any other business that we needed to bring up today all right then september

[3:58:14] Trustee Patrick (probable): 6 will be here before you know it i hope everyone enjoys their august and enjoyed the rain i hear

[3:58:22] Trustee Patrick (probable): you had we had it here too yes that's fantastic oh you're not on salt spring no i'm not here

[3:58:31] Trustee Patrick (probable): i

[3:58:31] Voice 4: think we have over an inch and a half yeah

[3:58:35] Trustee Patrick (probable): that's great news all right well then

[3:58:39] Trustee Patrick (probable): do i guess we call for adjournment do we uh so called and all those i guess just shake your head

[3:58:48] Trustee Patrick (probable): anyone opposed to adjourning oh okay so we're we're adjourned all right thank you everybody

[3:58:53] Trustee Patrick (probable): Thank you, everybody, for taking the time today.

ADOPTED 
Regional Planning Committee  
Minutes of a Special Meeting  
July 27, 2023 ADOPTED Page 1 of 4 
Regional Planning Committee 
Minutes of a Special Meeting 
 
Date: 
Location: 
July 27, 2023 
Electronic  
 
Members Present: Laura Patrick, Chair 
 Sam Borthwick, Vice Chair 
 Alex Allen, Hornby Island Local Trustee 
    Aaron Campbell, North Pender Island Local Trustee 
Mikaila Lironi, Lasqueti Island Local Trustee 
Tobi Elliott, Executive Committee Representative 
David Graham, Denman Island Local Trustee 
    Peter Luckham, Thetis Island Local Trustee (Ex Officio) 
 
Member Regrets:  Mairead Boland, Saturna Island Local Trustee 
 
Staff Present:   Stefan Cermak, Director, Planning Services 
    Robert Kojima, Regional Planning Manager, Southern Team 
    Mark Van Bakel, Information Services Manager 
    Mary Storzer, Acting Senior Policy Advisor 
    Narissa Chadwick, Island Planner 
    Chloe Cookson, Administrative Assistant/Recorder 
 
Others Present: No members of the public were present.  
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
 
Chair Patrick called the meeting to order at 10:03 a.m. and acknowledged that participants of 
the meeting were attending from traditional, treaty and unceded territories of many First 
Nations.  
 
2. AGENDA 
 
 2.1 Review of the Agenda 
 
No late items nor changes were presented for consideration. 
 
 2.2 Approval of the Agenda  
 
By general consent the Regional Planning Committee approved the agenda as 
presented. 
 
3. PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD 
 
 No members of the public were present.   
 

ADOPTED 
Regional Planning Committee  
Minutes of a Special Meeting  
July 27, 2023 ADOPTED Page 2 of 4 
4. DELEGATIONS 
 
None.  
 
Trustee Lironi joined the meeting at 10:15 a.m. 
 
5. BUSINESS – WORK PROGRAM ITEMS 
 
5.1 Housing Options Toolkit Staff Presentation 
 
 Director Cermak presented the Toolkit.  
 
5.2 Strategy and Toolkit Discussion  
 
Committee discussion included:  
 
5.2.2.1 Tool 1 Model Work Plans 
 expansion of Tool 1.1 Work Plan to provide more project management details or not 
to call it a work plan as they are more detailed 
 the desire to consult First Nation communities early in the process of the Model 
Local Trust Committee (LTC) Major Housing Project 
 applicant and agency engagement in Housing projects and the potential for a public-
facing version of the Toolkit 
 change the term “phase zero” to something else 
 what housing-related data is being monitored and how frequently it is being 
collected 
 trend management 
 
5.2.2.2 Tool 2 Housing Discussion Paper Guidelines 
 analysis of settlement patterns and demographics since Official Community Plans 
(OCPs) were last updated 
 analysis of implementation of OCP policies  
 the need to anticipate future settlement and demographic trends  
 what factors are driving changes in the Islands Trust Area 
 
5.2.2.3 Tool 3 Zoning and Policy Options Table 
 some questions about redundant wording 
 list needs to be updated on a regular basis 
 overall – this is the menu of choices 
 
5.2.2.4 Tool 4 Suitable Land Analysis (Mapping) & 
5.2.2.5 Tool 5 Build Out Mapping  
 making Tools accessible, clear, and comprehensive for a broad audience 
 overlapping polygons can be weighted differently 
 staff reviewing for exclusions and exceptions (ex: zone variants and covenants) 
 ensure that release of these maps are accompanied by a full explanation of 
assumptions, methodology, and the limits of modeling 

ADOPTED 
Regional Planning Committee  
Minutes of a Special Meeting  
July 27, 2023 ADOPTED Page 3 of 4 
Committee recessed at 12:10 p.m. and resumed at 12:45 p.m. 
 
5.2.2.6 Tool 6. Housing Action Plan/Local Housing Strategy Template 
 discussed cooperation and coordination with other agencies (as per table 2) 
 
5.2.2.7 Tool 7. Annotated Bibliography 
 list needs to be updated on a regular basis 
 
5.2.2.8 Tool 8  Baseline Report 
 context of the results of current housing policies could be useful 
 specific edits asked to be captured for Denman Island: 
o Pepper Lane: number of units = 8  
o The Ridge: number of units = 1 (and yes, it was built) 
 
5.2.2.9 Tool 9  Housing Profiles 
 interest in previous census data to compare to the data collected in 2021, as well as 
the average census numbers for British Columbia as a whole 
 comparison of data with other municipalities  
 the possibility of a live version of the Toolkit to appear on the Islands Trust website 
 
5.2.2.10  Tool 10 Roles and Responsibilities 
 rename “private” to Individual Land Owners or similar 
 
5.2.3 Next Steps 
 a second part to the Housing Toolkit focusing on the perspective of applicants 
 the desire to gather input from applicants regarding which Housing focuses would 
be most helpful to prioritize 
 
By general consent the Regional Planning Committee agreed to prioritize the 
various tools in part 2 of the Housing Toolkit by engaging with known partners in 
affordable housing projects. 
 
By general consent the Regional Planning Committee agreed to send out a missive 
to Trustees and staff and their relevant contacts for feedback on Affordable Housing 
Tools.   
 
6. BUSINESS - OTHER 
 
 None.          
 
7. BUSINESS – NEW 
 
 None. 
   
8. NEXT MEETING 
 
 The next scheduled meeting is Wednesday, September 6, 2023.  

ADOPTED 
Regional Planning Committee  
Minutes of a Special Meeting  
July 27, 2023 ADOPTED Page 4 of 4 
 
9. CLOSED MEETING 
 
 The Committee did not close the meeting.  
 
10. RISE AND REPORT 
 
As the Committee did not close the meeting, there was no need for the Committee to discuss 
this option.  
 
11. ADJOURNMENT  
 
By general consent the meeting adjourned at 2:02 p.m. 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
Laura Patrick, Chair 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
 
_________________________ 
Chloe Cookson, Planning Services Administrative Assistant