Islands Trust Council regular meeting, July 31, 2023

[0:09:13] Voice 11: i need to unmute there

[0:09:15] Voice 7: you go we've come out of closed and we've agreed that there is not going

[0:09:20] Voice 7: to be a rise in report from that closed meeting and we'll carry on back with our agenda for the

[0:09:28] Voice 7: open meeting so we're up to number seven administrative coordination i'm going to

[0:09:36] Voice 7: suggest that unless there's any anything that people need to pull from any of that then it's

[0:09:43] Voice 7: the minutes of may the 29th and the follow-up action list that um those both of those matters

[0:09:52] Voice 7: be by um consent that we get through that part of the agenda very quickly anything anybody want

[0:09:59] Voice 11: to pull so um by

[0:10:09] Voice 7: consent meaning that we've got um a motion to accept the draft minutes and the

[0:10:16] Voice 7: follow-up action list with uh seconders and no objection we don't have that in the regular

[0:10:24] Voice 7: process um russ as an aside is that permitted under the process for the trust to have a consent

[0:10:30] Voice 7: agenda yes it is

[0:10:32] Voice 7: okay and have we done that yes

[0:10:37] Voice 5: trust council does it

[0:10:38] Voice 5: and uh you've you've done

[0:10:39] Voice 5: that properly i think we've got that motion all

[0:10:41] Voice 7: right so then uh business number eight

[0:10:45] Voice 7: the uh corporate plan and the discussion of the visiting visioning process so 8.1 first of all

[0:10:52] Voice 7: and that is uh page 12 of the agenda and there's a briefing there um thank

[0:11:01] Voice 11: you russ for that and

[0:11:02] Voice 11: so um part way

[0:11:11] Voice 7: down the um work continues the financial planning committee will have met in

[0:11:17] Voice 7: in late July, staff are beginning an analysis as described. Overall, this work is going to take

[0:11:22] Voice 7: some time. And the second paragraph from the bottom, in the meantime, it's recommended Trust

[0:11:28] Voice 7: Council be presented with a draft outline of the corporate plan in September, that they endorse the

[0:11:33] Voice 7: work to date. So I believe at this point, what we're suggesting in this briefing is that there

[0:11:40] Voice 7: um be some sort of a recognition and endorsement by trust council uh the financial planning

[0:11:48] Voice 7: committee has been working hard and the subgroup in that and we've had a couple of discussions and

[0:11:54] Voice 7: have looked at this corporate plan two or three times now and um but it's never actually gone to

[0:12:01] Voice 7: the the full board and that um there needs to be some recognition that this is accepted by the

[0:12:08] Voice 7: the board as the steps they want to take and that would help i think before we um get the

[0:12:15] Voice 7: the staff doing any more work in terms of supporting this so um i believe that's the

[0:12:23] Voice 7: rather than us going through what um it would be the financial planning committee subcommittee

[0:12:29] Voice 7: um talking to the corporate plan and what it what it involves um sharing that information us

[0:12:36] Voice 7: us as a governance committee saying this is part of the mandate that we've got it's on our work

[0:12:41] Voice 7: plan it's something that we've delegated to the financial planning committee but we endorse it

[0:12:47] Voice 7: and we need to make sure that everybody on trust council is on board is that um a reasonable

[0:12:55] Voice 7: summary yes

[0:12:57] Voice 5: madam chair and i could provide a brief update if you wish sure

[0:13:01] Voice 11: well

[0:13:03] Voice 5: since i wrote

[0:13:03] Voice 5: this report um the subgroup met uh i think was last wednesday and talked through this and there

[0:13:11] Voice 5: was uh and trustee patrick is on that group so she will confirm or deny anything i say

[0:13:16] Voice 5: um there was general i think unanimity in in an approximate direction first the interest in yes

[0:13:23] Voice 5: having trust council endorse the work to date and to say we're on the right path and uh to begin to

[0:13:33] Voice 5: to knit some of these pieces together they've asked me to in so doing there's a bit of trust

[0:13:38] Voice 5: involved here all the way around we would like to continue to do some work on the corporate

[0:13:44] Voice 5: plan tidy up some of the back end not the extensive piece that would come probably between

[0:13:52] Voice 5: September and December where we're testing the business plans taking for instance a current

[0:13:59] Voice 5: current project and putting it through a process whereby if this corporate plan existed, what

[0:14:05] Voice 5: would the reporting be like? I'm in the process of reaching out to other chief administrative

[0:14:11] Voice 5: officers around the specificity and detail that they provide to their elected officials

[0:14:16] Voice 5: just for some comparison. So, FPC subgroup felt comfortable that we would take this draft,

[0:14:27] Voice 5: the draft corporate plan it might be slightly updated from the version you're seeing in your

[0:14:31] Voice 5: agenda right now based on the work between now and september and that what goes with it is sort

[0:14:38] Voice 5: of a business plan associated with the corporate plan a bit of a road map of what would be needed

[0:14:45] Voice 5: what are some differences between the current process and the future process it wouldn't be

[0:14:51] Voice 5: an exhaustive covering report would be enough for trust council to get a feel for what's going on

[0:14:56] Voice 5: ask questions and determine whether they think that they wish to proceed.

[0:15:01] Voice 5: So I would undertake that with your agreement,

[0:15:05] Voice 5: and I would get it on the mid-September Executive Committee agenda.

[0:15:13] Voice 5: Substantially, the corporate plan would look the way it is,

[0:15:16] Voice 5: but granted with as many updates and opportunities for clarity

[0:15:22] Voice 5: that we could bring to it.

[0:15:23] Voice 5: and i expect the fpc subgroup would meet between now and then just to confirm that so we're hoping

[0:15:30] Voice 5: that you you agree and that we would then once trust council endorsed it i think a tentative

[0:15:38] Voice 5: timeline or a reasonable timeline to look at would be because the end goal is at some point

[0:15:44] Voice 5: there is a fully vetted contentful corporate planning process for the next

[0:15:55] Voice 5: time the budgeting sequence starts next year and so the hard work would be

[0:16:01] Voice 5: happening between September and December then the Trust Council in the new year

[0:16:08] Voice 5: would start looking at what projects or interests it has and those would get to

[0:16:13] Voice 5: put towards a plan and then hopefully maybe by June next year there would be a new corporate

[0:16:18] Voice 5: planning process. The point was made also in the interim that as business cases are going forward

[0:16:26] Voice 5: for this fiscal that some of the learning from the corporate planning process would inevitably

[0:16:31] Voice 5: be filtering in to how we do work now. Though it might not be a fully endorsed corporate plan

[0:16:38] Voice 5: um there would be elements that we'd be bringing in to make this situation better

[0:16:42] Voice 5: clearer and more cohesive for trust councils they make choices in terms of how they want

[0:16:50] Voice 5: to allocate the resources both staff resources and finances so that's the pitch

[0:16:58] Voice 11: all right any

[0:17:01] Voice 11: discussion laura well thank you

[0:17:10] Trustee Patrick: russ i generally that's uh that is and i think one some of the

[0:17:13] Trustee Patrick: the items that we asked to have clarity made is to show that many of the pieces already exist.

[0:17:19] Trustee Patrick: They're just being, they're showing back up in this form. And then many pieces are already

[0:17:25] Trustee Patrick: underway. The Financial Planning Committee will be seeing those as what applies to this new

[0:17:32] Trustee Patrick: cycle, as Russ was talking about. So we were trying to make it as clear as possible on what's

[0:17:39] Trustee Patrick: what's coming all

[0:17:41] Voice 7: right so basically what we're looking at is an endorsement and uh the that

[0:17:49] Voice 7: timeline in terms of the presentation to the trust committee and some time spent at the trust

[0:17:54] Voice 7: committee and then um this overall tentative schedule i would think that we need more

[0:18:00] Voice 7: information before we can work on that so that's possibly our october meeting does

[0:18:07] Voice 11: that make sense

[0:18:10] Voice 11: Well, I'm hoping that this goes in September.

[0:18:15] Voice 7: Oh, I'm,

[0:18:16] Voice 5: I'm hoping that

[0:18:17] Voice 7: you're talking about the presentation to trust

[0:18:21] Voice 7: council. Yes.

[0:18:22] Voice 5: I'm hoping that

[0:18:23] Voice 5: that goes forward in September and then we're all in some

[0:18:27] Voice 5: version of unison going forward.

[0:18:30] Voice 5: And then we know that it's worth putting my time and others time into keeping

[0:18:35] Voice 5: on doing this.

[0:18:36] Voice 5: So once we get

[0:18:37] Voice 7: an endorsement, then we can work on the tentative schedule.

[0:18:40] Voice 5: Yeah, and I would posit a basic schedule. I'll say it better than I just said it. But as we report to Trust Council, I'd start to outline a basic schedule because we're schedule-less at this point. And I think that, you know, time does march on to a certain degree. And so I would outline that and they would debate that and see whether that makes sense.

[0:19:02] Voice 5: we're

[0:19:03] Voice 7: not figuring out either of these today here in this meeting where we can put that into either

[0:19:08] Voice 7: august 31st or our um our october meeting

[0:19:13] Voice 5: right we'd be into the real if trust council agrees in

[0:19:17] Voice 5: september we're into the real work october november december right of of of the details of

[0:19:23] Voice 5: landing a new process in corporate planning

[0:19:27] Voice 11: okay joe uh

[0:19:32] Trustee Bernardo: everything i've heard so far makes sense

[0:19:34] Trustee Bernardo: to me um uh we um it makes sense that trust council uh be asked to endorse uh the high level

[0:19:44] Trustee Bernardo: uh direction which has now been filled out in some detail and i think that is what is proposed

[0:19:51] Trustee Bernardo: for september and i would like at that time just out of an abundance of caution just to make clear

[0:19:57] Trustee Bernardo: for trust council that what they're being asked to endorse isn't a new operational policy it's

[0:20:05] Trustee Bernardo: a pretty specific outline of what that policy is going to look like and the the actual nuts and

[0:20:10] Trustee Bernardo: bolts policy of what happens when and who does what and all the granular detail that's coming

[0:20:15] Trustee Bernardo: later but this is basically the strategic direction we're going in and before we go in that direction

[0:20:21] Trustee Bernardo: we want press council to be a aware of it and b endorse it it makes perfect sense to me just so

[0:20:27] Trustee Bernardo: long as we clarify that you know people don't get into the misunderstanding that what we're offering

[0:20:32] Trustee Bernardo: is a new operational policy that's that's that's a step forward that's not yet okay the other

[0:20:37] Trustee Bernardo: clarification which is a petty one for the uh for the record in the briefing memo it says that the

[0:20:42] Trustee Bernardo: fbc will have met in late july uh more accurately it was the subgroup i think met in late july not

[0:20:48] Trustee Bernardo: the committee as a whole but that's fine i mean that's true and the committee doesn't object

[0:20:53] Trustee Bernardo: obviously to that i mean we're behind what the subgroup does and what i'm hearing is um you know

[0:21:01] Trustee Bernardo: Well, once this, well, you know, I've said enough.

[0:21:05] Trustee Bernardo: I'll stop now.

[0:21:07] Voice 7: All right.

[0:21:08] Voice 7: So the resolution coming out of this is that we endorse the subcommittee's recommendation to present their draft outline of the corporate plan in September to Trust Council as a whole, with the purpose of explaining and seeking endorsement of the process and the work to date and the projected future work.

[0:21:31] Voice 5: Correct.

[0:21:32] Voice 5: Correct. The framework. We're going to describe the framework.

[0:21:35] Voice 7: Okay. So, can I get someone to move that resolution?

[0:21:45] Voice 11: Joe? Seconder? Laura? And anybody opposed?

[0:21:54] Voice 7: All right. Then that is passed.

[0:21:57] Voice 7: So, the overall tentative schedule, I'm going to table that or suggest that we table that until after we get the endorsement sorted out.

[0:22:10] Voice 7: that we're going to have a better idea of all the work that is going to be involved and the timeline

[0:22:15] Voice 7: that we can um suggest to council fair enough tabled any opposed all right so um next on the

[0:22:28] Voice 7: agenda 8.2 discussion of the visiting visioning process um that starts on page 23 of the agenda

[0:22:35] Voice 7: agenda. And if

[0:22:39] Voice 11: this is the, so

[0:22:50] Voice 7: the suggestion is that governance committee may wish to provide

[0:22:54] Voice 7: some insight or direction to these projects and how they are related to each other finally to

[0:22:59] Voice 7: provide guidance to executive committee as they develop a visioning process. And then

[0:23:04] Voice 7: Russ in his briefing notes have provided five key questions. I personally found that the

[0:23:13] Voice 7: visioning from 2017 was it um

[0:23:17] Voice 7: all of that work to be very helpful and i'm wondering if that

[0:23:20] Voice 7: sort of thing is provided uh in some way to trust council we can um you know get through the um

[0:23:31] Voice 7: all of those basic elements in terms of you know what and maybe reach consensus in terms of how to

[0:23:37] Voice 7: prioritize them but of that list that's in highlighted and or i i may have been the one

[0:23:43] Voice 7: to highlight it in my area of the page 27 areas to probe blank graffiti charts for demographics

[0:23:49] Voice 7: nature echo housing local economy food um that i don't know if there's things to add to that

[0:23:57] Voice 7: possibly um but you know if we can use those as the elements of of what's important to the trust

[0:24:07] Voice 7: discussed as the visioning part of it, and possibly prioritize them, what we think are

[0:24:13] Voice 7: most important now, that's a huge part of the visioning exercise. It's already been done in

[0:24:21] Voice 7: 2017, and I don't know that we necessarily disagree with. Would that

[0:24:25] Voice 11: be a reasonable

[0:24:27] Voice 11: assumption, Joe?

[0:24:37] Trustee Bernardo: I don't know if it is or it isn't. I mean, I think it's like,

[0:24:40] Trustee Bernardo: Like, I wouldn't want to assume anything.

[0:24:43] Trustee Bernardo: That was six years ago.

[0:24:45] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, looking at the list, I mean, it basically covers everything.

[0:24:50] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, there's nothing to disagree with.

[0:24:51] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, that, you know, but you look at things like food, water, I'm not quite sure I know what that includes.

[0:24:56] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, that seems pretty general.

[0:24:58] Trustee Bernardo: You could put air in there.

[0:25:00] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, I'm not sure that list particularly is helpful.

[0:25:04] Trustee Bernardo: It's so wide ranging.

[0:25:05] Trustee Bernardo: And we know that we've got only so many resources.

[0:25:08] Trustee Bernardo: resources uh what's missing as we know is a certain amount of focus uh in the direction

[0:25:14] Trustee Bernardo: that trust council has provided to staff and to islands trust so i think the visioning exercise

[0:25:19] Trustee Bernardo: may start with some of these discussions but i wouldn't assume that we would necessarily end up

[0:25:25] Trustee Bernardo: in the same place and i know with interest that there's one area that's missing from this is

[0:25:31] Trustee Bernardo: you know uh the basic service the basic planning service that it basically consists of the main

[0:25:42] Trustee Bernardo: work of the islands trust and that the planning staff and all that stuff that the planners do

[0:25:47] Trustee Bernardo: it would seem to me that that you know for visioning we need to take into account that

[0:25:52] Trustee Bernardo: that is the kind of the ballast that's the core work that we do and all the other stuff is in

[0:25:57] Trustee Bernardo: in a sense ancillary to it so i would like that concept out there uh in uh in the visioning

[0:26:05] Trustee Bernardo: exercise um but i'm i'm not sure this is the form for defining it um yeah like needing a visioning

[0:26:16] Trustee Bernardo: exercise is one thing i i guess i'm struggling a little bit here to understand what governance

[0:26:21] Trustee Bernardo: committee's role is in the details of of it uh do we really need to be involved with that or not i

[0:26:28] Trustee Bernardo: I don't know. Laura?

[0:26:34] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I think there's a couple of fundamental things that we could assist with,

[0:26:40] Trustee Patrick: at least. I agree we don't need to do the process, but we do need to agree what is it

[0:26:45] Trustee Patrick: we're trying to do. On the corporate planning working group, the conversations we've had is

[0:26:54] Trustee Patrick: basically organizations, the vision and mission isn't tweaked each term you're elected. The vision

[0:27:02] Trustee Patrick: is you know the the why we all here you know um and the mission is the the box that we've been

[0:27:09] Trustee Patrick: given for the authority to do um what we're doing um when we look at a chart like that's

[0:27:15] Trustee Patrick: highlighted in yellow on the page now we're kind of getting down into choices uh what are the

[0:27:20] Trustee Patrick: values and areas that we want to focus on in this term so i i think the question uh one of the

[0:27:28] Trustee Patrick: the questions that are presented by Russ Hudson-Pillard there about should the policy

[0:27:33] Trustee Patrick: statement be the vision, I would certainly say it's absent of vision at the moment. It is a

[0:27:39] Trustee Patrick: collection of policy to do what? And I think that's the issue is, are we talking about a

[0:27:51] Trustee Patrick: future state of the islands that we all agree is some glorious thing that we're all working toward?

[0:27:58] Trustee Patrick: Um, and then, um, this information, a lot of this would have to do with our values of how

[0:28:06] Trustee Patrick: and goals for this term as to how we're going to sort this out and get down to the nitty gritty of

[0:28:11] Trustee Patrick: what this term is going to be about this trust council. So I think that's, I think that's a

[0:28:17] Trustee Patrick: fundamental question we need to have is, is the vision something that gets tweaked every term,

[0:28:22] Trustee Patrick: which I disagree with. I think that it should be a vision of why we're all here. Um, and it's

[0:28:28] Trustee Patrick: pretty much left alone um it's confirmed probably by each uh term but it's not it's not a vision of

[0:28:35] Trustee Patrick: that trust council it is a vision russ

[0:28:41] Voice 11: well

[0:28:43] Voice 5: madam chair we now go where angels fear to tread

[0:28:45] Voice 5: and that is to talk about the visioning process at the islands trust and if you'll allow me one

[0:28:52] Voice 5: or two minutes and i'll appeal to the to to all of you to help this is here because we need help

[0:29:01] Voice 5: if we contemplate the trust council meeting that's coming up in september there's going to be a

[0:29:05] Voice 5: fundamental and profound discussion around section 3 the object clause of the allen's trust act so

[0:29:12] Voice 5: that's number one that's heavy and weighty or and it could be number two we're going to talk about

[0:29:17] Voice 5: the corporate planning process for the allen's trust which is also a significant milestone

[0:29:22] Voice 5: conversation probably um both of these coming out of the governance report and both of them

[0:29:28] Voice 5: associated with some of the work that you're sponsoring the third leg of this stool instead

[0:29:34] Voice 5: of the using the word visioning is this trust council has yet to have a conversation in the

[0:29:40] Voice 5: three meetings it's had or three and a half meetings that it's had about what values or

[0:29:45] Voice 5: interests it has as a group of elected officials now that could be called visioning where you take

[0:29:51] Voice 5: on the grander question um or it could be simply um what are we interested in how do we all sit

[0:29:59] Voice 5: around

[0:30:00] Voice 5: the table together um how are we going to use this next two and a half three years um depending

[0:30:07] Voice 5: upon how you answer those two questions um speaks a lot to what kind of visioning session we may or

[0:30:15] Voice 5: may not have i can't say whether this trust council is ready for the profound discussion or not

[0:30:21] Voice 5: of um of the region and what it's going to look like in 20 or 30 years you could tell me that

[0:30:27] Voice 5: that better so as I sit tasked with organizing such a session I go should we just open the

[0:30:35] Voice 5: floor and ask a couple of good questions about what am I interested in and there's conversation

[0:30:40] Voice 5: at the table it's essentially not unfacilitated but it's you know facility we collectively do

[0:30:46] Voice 5: that together or I provided an example of a very different approach which was we hired a

[0:30:53] Voice 5: professional that professional led the trust council through a sequenced conversation with

[0:31:00] Voice 5: the hope that we would end up with a summary sentence or vision statement that would stand

[0:31:07] Voice 5: the test of time such that the policy statement the object clause all those things would fit

[0:31:13] Voice 5: together that's the question that we're we're trying to grapple with here and the reason why

[0:31:19] Voice 5: its governance committee is because you're so fundamentally associated with some of these key

[0:31:24] Voice 5: pieces it would be it would seem strange to not tap into your thinking um before we went in front

[0:31:31] Voice 5: if it totally uh it might fall on tin ears if we hadn't if trust council all of a sudden was doing

[0:31:39] Voice 5: a visioning exercise we hadn't talked about the object and um we weren't talking about the

[0:31:44] Voice 5: corporate planning process um that's why i just posed a series of questions that have come up in

[0:31:50] Voice 5: the past um you know i think ec and the rest of us would benefit from some of your thinking on what

[0:31:56] Voice 5: would you know should we have this process a visioning exercise maybe the object discussion

[0:32:03] Voice 5: is the start of that and it flows into public and we and we have that or do we have a companion

[0:32:10] Voice 5: visioning exercise after the object clause discussion and maybe after the corporate

[0:32:16] Voice 5: planning things being approved and it can go one of two ways as I say a more

[0:32:22] Voice 5: rigorous professionally led though I'll have to really get on it in terms of

[0:32:27] Voice 5: getting someone in to come in to come in and help with us or is this more about a

[0:32:32] Voice 5: more basic version where you sit and talk about what your value is what you

[0:32:36] Voice 5: believe in how we what are the three or four areas we think we can cooperate on

[0:32:40] Voice 5: And that's supplemental to the SWOT and starts us in some momentum for the rest of the term.

[0:32:51] Voice 5: That's what I've got to offer you, Chair Getty.

[0:32:55] Voice 5: So it's really insight to us as we try and organize this session and what could we get out of it.

[0:33:02] Voice 3: Okay. Thank you. Jamie?

[0:33:04] Voice 3: Thank you. I would have to say, in my opinion, that the visioning definitely is for the new council, you know, and the new vision will show the policy statement went in the wrong direction.

[0:33:23] Voice 3: If we look back at the governance review and I sit and look at this stuff highlighted in

[0:33:32] Voice 3: yellow here and a lot of this is what has gone wrong and speaks to what came out of

[0:33:40] Voice 3: the governance review and we really need to and then it comes back to what we were doing

[0:33:47] Voice 3: earlier today and um you know anyway i think of the vision definitely is for new council and

[0:33:57] Voice 3: these things are very serious and this needs to be boiled down clearly because this is so vague

[0:34:04] Voice 3: and broad here um i'll leave it at

[0:34:07] Voice 11: that laura this

[0:34:14] Trustee Patrick: where this came from is when we initiated

[0:34:16] Trustee Patrick: this corporate planning exercise and looking at every municipality in bc as to how they do their

[0:34:23] Trustee Patrick: corporate and strategic planning, it's all following the basic vision, mission, values,

[0:34:30] Trustee Patrick: goals. And if you go to the municipalities and look at what they have for vision, every one of

[0:34:36] Trustee Patrick: them say the OCP, because they all have one, one OCP. And they say that is their vision. So they

[0:34:44] Trustee Patrick: don't spend time on that when they get into it. I went and did an analysis of every OCP that we

[0:34:50] Trustee Patrick: We have at the Islands Trust, as well as our trust policy statement that currently is in

[0:34:55] Trustee Patrick: place today.

[0:34:56] Trustee Patrick: And vision statements are hard to find.

[0:35:00] Trustee Patrick: We don't have one in our trust policy statement, and there's only a couple of OCPs that have

[0:35:05] Trustee Patrick: them.

[0:35:05] Trustee Patrick: Some of them aren't even really vision statements.

[0:35:08] Trustee Patrick: So it's something that we've missed doing in this organization for a very long time.

[0:35:15] Trustee Patrick: And it's important to be done.

[0:35:18] Trustee Patrick: and how it does it does relate to the mission absolutely is the vision a national park or is

[0:35:25] Trustee Patrick: the vision a collection of islands that people live on in communities and things of that nature

[0:35:31] Trustee Patrick: that is it is fundamental and it does relate to section three of the act but it should be

[0:35:38] Trustee Patrick: a statement it should be a brief thing and it's as you go down into the values and goals that's

[0:35:45] Trustee Patrick: where we get into the details

[0:35:47] Voice 11: joe uh i'm uh i'm

[0:35:58] Trustee Bernardo: in agreement uh in broad strokes with where laura

[0:36:01] Trustee Bernardo: is coming from on this uh to answer the ceo's question about how he'd like some help from

[0:36:09] Trustee Bernardo: from us in terms of defining what the visioning exercise ought to be um following on what you

[0:36:19] Trustee Bernardo: know it's a pretty clear implication from what laura is saying here that the visioning exercise

[0:36:24] Trustee Bernardo: exercise uh ought not to be some free-floating gab session where people talk about what they

[0:36:31] Trustee Bernardo: would like for christmas or what they think the organization should be focused on um because to

[0:36:39] Trustee Bernardo: a large extent unlike other local governments our vision has already been defined for us

[0:36:45] Trustee Bernardo: it's in section three and the ceo mentioned this in passing uh you know as he laid out the

[0:36:53] Trustee Bernardo: alternatives uh is the visioning exercise really a discussion of the section three uh mandate uh

[0:37:02] Trustee Bernardo: and to that i would say yeah i think it is i i think that's the visioning exercise that

[0:37:07] Trustee Bernardo: that trustee patrick is talking about uh is if we get to a definition of that uh

[0:37:15] Trustee Bernardo: and that is like a basic understanding a common consensus based understanding of what the islands

[0:37:22] Trustee Bernardo: Trust is all about. That's a vision. The stuff that we see highlighted in here are really

[0:37:33] Trustee Bernardo: subordinate strategic questions that you might deal with in pursuit of the vision.

[0:37:39] Trustee Bernardo: And they might vary from year to year or from term to term in terms of what emphasis is in terms of

[0:37:44] Trustee Bernardo: what the resources are put into. But the vision itself, that broad understanding of what we're

[0:37:50] Trustee Bernardo: we're all about i think that does come through you know when we when we ask the trust council

[0:37:55] Trustee Bernardo: to participate in a visioning exercise i think what we're going to want them to do is is to

[0:38:00] Trustee Bernardo: participate in discussion of what section three means and and how we ought to define it for

[0:38:05] Trustee Bernardo: ourselves and for the public and uh that's the basic visioning exercise and the corporate plan

[0:38:11] Trustee Bernardo: which relies on a clear understanding of what the vision is in order to that's the kernel of the

[0:38:19] Trustee Bernardo: the thing. Implicit in that is a related aspect of the vision, which is its whole idea behind

[0:38:27] Trustee Bernardo: the corporate plan is to have a focused, effective, and efficient use of tax revenue and staff

[0:38:32] Trustee Bernardo: resources. That's part of the vision. That's a grand strategic goal, to be good at what we do,

[0:38:40] Trustee Bernardo: to be clear about what we do. And that's why we do the corporate plan. So it's hard for me to

[0:38:46] Trustee Bernardo: separate the visioning exercise from the basic issue of uh addressing what section three actually

[0:38:52] Trustee Bernardo: means um

[0:38:55] Voice 7: on page 34 of our agenda there's four versions of a vision statement were any of those

[0:39:02] Voice 7: adopted uh by the previous council no

[0:39:06] Voice 5: madam chair we could not get to an agreement um on

[0:39:11] Voice 5: on that exact thing i mean i think any one of these would be worthy of some

[0:39:18] Voice 5: um thought but i turned to trustee middleton luckham patrick peterson to you know take us

[0:39:28] Voice 5: through the you know that that's the the political mind was at work um looking through these various

[0:39:33] Voice 5: versions um the intention was to try and get a this kind of statement uh but they we just couldn't

[0:39:39] Voice 5: get there at the end of the day all

[0:39:41] Voice 7: right so the it's um seems to me the visioning exercise is to

[0:39:48] Voice 7: try and go through the list of what the goals and values are and you know to sort out whether or not

[0:39:54] Voice 7: with section three um and an understanding of that this sounds a lot of this sounds like section

[0:40:00] Voice 7: three or how do we interpret section three so if our goal is to come up with a visioning statement

[0:40:06] Voice 7: that is close to or similar to or somehow or other like these four that we can end up agreeing on

[0:40:12] Voice 7: that's the objective that

[0:40:18] Voice 11: would that would be um okay peter mute yeah thank you um yeah

[0:40:34] Trustee Luckham: um i guess

[0:40:35] Trustee Luckham: in response to what happened in the past and then i do have a remark on top of that but what

[0:40:42] Trustee Luckham: happened in the past is council was unable to land on a place that even understood what a vision

[0:40:54] Trustee Luckham: statement was, let alone the actual wording or language associated with it. Because of course,

[0:41:01] Trustee Luckham: if you reflect back, we were at the beginnings of the policy statement amendment. There was

[0:41:07] Trustee Luckham: There was lots of external pressures to, and in fact, the governance review was probably under, not even contemplated maybe at that time, although certainly there were calls for that.

[0:41:19] Trustee Luckham: And so they simply were unable to land, and then it was never picked up again, given the other demands that exist.

[0:41:31] Trustee Luckham: And that's an ongoing situation.

[0:41:34] Trustee Luckham: We don't end up finishing or following through with work where there's not a lot of support or momentum associated with it.

[0:41:44] Trustee Luckham: Just with respect to this, and in particular to what you've got up on this or had up on the screen there with that highlighted list of areas to probe,

[0:41:55] Trustee Luckham: that's is is broad on purpose um because that was the questions that were out there with respect to

[0:42:05] Trustee Luckham: uh a vision potential vision statement um and that would continue to be out there and there

[0:42:12] Trustee Luckham: may be other things that are added or things removed from that list that are of current

[0:42:16] Trustee Luckham: interest but um the vision statement and the creation of a vision statement isn't about

[0:42:23] Trustee Luckham: fixing the island's trust or thinking that it's broken in any way, shape or form, but to provide

[0:42:32] Trustee Luckham: a vision for what it is that we see as our role in this place. And indeed, as Trustee Bernardo said

[0:42:43] Trustee Luckham: at the beginning, is where is the corporate process associated with that? And let's just say

[0:42:49] Trustee Luckham: that we want to excel to be an excellent organization in land use planning or coastal

[0:42:54] Trustee Luckham: protection or whatever it happens to be so certainly we would obviously support that

[0:42:59] Trustee Luckham: going forward but it's much more broader than granular than that uh is about and it really it

[0:43:06] Trustee Luckham: comes down to the preserve and protect communities amenities the natural environment you know those

[0:43:14] Trustee Luckham: sorts of things what values and in fact the values was the important thing that needed to be

[0:43:17] Trustee Luckham: identified and sure there's another list there that's been generated but again as Trustee Harris

[0:43:23] Trustee Luckham: has said indeed this council needs to put its mark on it and I'm not sure what the long term looks

[0:43:29] Trustee Luckham: like with respect to a future council believing that the vision is correct or the values are

[0:43:35] Trustee Luckham: correct but that's to me is we need to endorse the values and then from those values the vision

[0:43:42] Trustee Luckham: statement blossoms as this is how we see it and then we get on with the rest of business and

[0:43:47] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, that gets embedded into, as Laura has said, into, for the most part, in some way, shape, or form, into all of the LTC OCPs, gets embedded in the policy statement.

[0:43:58] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, there is an introduction section there, which kind of is vision-focused, that indeed, whatever vision statement comes out of it needs to be emblazoned in that introductory portion of the policy statement,

[0:44:12] Trustee Luckham: because the policy statements support the the land use planning process associated with the visions

[0:44:17] Trustee Luckham: that's my two cents thank

[0:44:21] Voice 7: you jamie you had your hand up is it down again it's down again

[0:44:25] Voice 3: i'm flip-flopping on whether i want to ramble on or not um decide not to so okay

[0:44:32] Voice 7: um has there

[0:44:36] Voice 7: been an exercise in terms of um agreeing on values russ no

[0:44:43] Voice 5: madam chair there hasn't and of course

[0:44:45] Voice 5: that's dependent upon whatever council we've got. So just thinking practically, if following the

[0:44:53] Voice 5: thread of this conversation, instead of maybe trying to land a vision and complete packaged

[0:44:59] Voice 5: vision at the end of the September meeting, what if there was the section three discussion

[0:45:06] Voice 5: and then time on the agenda to talk about values, as you suggest, the values of this trust council

[0:45:16] Voice 5: Um, that, that then may in December or some, or future date lends itself to a more, a fuller

[0:45:24] Voice 5: visioning discussion, but maybe you have the, the part three discussion and then talk about,

[0:45:29] Voice 5: given that these are the things I believe in inside what it turns out, the fair amount

[0:45:35] Voice 5: of discretion we've been afforded, because it looks like that's the interpretation that's

[0:45:39] Voice 5: of the, uh, of, of where you're at in terms of, uh, part three.

[0:45:44] Voice 5: well then you would ask yourself what does this group of elected officials believe in what are

[0:45:49] Voice 5: their shared values and maybe it's instead of like quote-unquote visioning it's a values

[0:45:54] Voice 5: conversation values and beliefs conversation that would occur at trust council and some time

[0:45:58] Voice 5: provided for it that may lend itself to a vision later in the game so no the answer is we have

[0:46:05] Voice 5: this trust council has not had a values conversation yet laura

[0:46:11] Voice 11: you keep shaking your

[0:46:14] Voice 11: going to get dizzy

[0:46:15] Trustee Patrick: i know i am getting dizzy i would not underestimate the value of a vision

[0:46:22] Trustee Patrick: it it every organization has it it's it's the where you're going simple it's a self-fulfilling

[0:46:32] Trustee Patrick: prophecy it's aspirational it is meant to be out there into the future of of what it is it's it's

[0:46:41] Trustee Patrick: It's really amazing that this organization hasn't had one and that our trust policy statement hasn't had one.

[0:46:48] Trustee Patrick: And I think because we haven't had a vision is what's led to all this.

[0:46:52] Trustee Patrick: I don't know. Do we do this? Do we do that?

[0:46:54] Trustee Patrick: You know, disagreements on what we are. It really is, you know, it's the destination in your Google map search of where you're going, the address.

[0:47:06] Trustee Patrick: it's that fundamental the goals and values and all of those things come under it and if we don't

[0:47:13] Trustee Patrick: have an agreement as to what it is we're doing uh one i think we should look around the table

[0:47:19] Trustee Patrick: at each other and really shake our heads i think as a mature body of 26 people we should be able

[0:47:24] Trustee Patrick: to come to an agreement on what what the end state future vision of these islands is we did

[0:47:30] Trustee Patrick: it at regional planning committee it lasted about 15 seconds we came to an agreement rapidly on what

[0:47:37] Trustee Patrick: we thought the future state was um and i absolutely hope that's a possible thing with this this group

[0:47:43] Trustee Patrick: if we can't wow then i'd be really scared but vision it's the point it's the place we're going

[0:47:50] Trustee Patrick: the north star whatever you want to call it um and then those other things

[0:47:56] Voice 11: fall under it

[0:48:00] Voice 11: Tim.

[0:48:04] Voice 8: Thank you, Chair. So just to reflect a little bit on the process that we're looking at sort of

[0:48:11] Voice 8: the results of here, my experience of it is that although the exercise was of value, we really got

[0:48:24] Voice 8: caught up in wordsmithing. And as you see here, there's four potential visions Trust Council

[0:48:33] Voice 8: council couldn't agree to what you know to to come to consensus on one of them uh if if i were to

[0:48:40] Voice 8: wave my magic wand and hypnotize everyone to vote the way i thought they should we just adopt number

[0:48:46] Voice 8: four here and move on i think it's perfectly serviceable the problem from my perspective is

[0:48:54] Voice 8: is that there was wordsmithing with the intent to get the perfect vision.

[0:49:06] Voice 8: Some people wanted something a bit more brief.

[0:49:09] Voice 8: Some people thought we needed to include a lot more detail.

[0:49:15] Voice 8: I guess my main concern is that as we consider going into this process,

[0:49:22] Voice 8: that we we do come up with a conclusion that trust council can live with and that we

[0:49:30] Voice 8: don't spend inordinate amounts of time and energy agonizing over every word and writing and

[0:49:41] Voice 8: rewriting and rewriting and and so how we how we convince trust council collectively

[0:49:47] Voice 8: to sort of embrace that part aspect of it like that's something i'm i'm not sure how we can

[0:49:56] Voice 8: pull that off that would be that would be my my dream that we could you know agree that we're

[0:50:03] Voice 8: not going to spend forever wordsmithing that we're not going to have you know the curse of

[0:50:10] Voice 8: too much choices too many too many different versions to choose from and then we can't come

[0:50:15] Voice 8: to some some agreement so that's sort of my concern i just wanted to kind of express that

[0:50:21] Voice 8: in in relation to what happened in the past it's totally possible this trust council will not

[0:50:25] Voice 8: agonize over every word uh to the extent that happened in the past and that we won't reach a

[0:50:33] Voice 8: paralysis um and i certainly hope that that that is the case that we can do this come up with

[0:50:40] Voice 8: something that we all feel is appropriate and reasonable and move on. So I'll just leave it at

[0:50:47] Voice 8: that. Thank you.

[0:50:56] Trustee Bernardo: This is a really interesting discussion because, you know, there's a

[0:51:04] Trustee Bernardo: distinction that has creeped into the discussion between values and vision, which I think isn't a

[0:51:09] Trustee Bernardo: real distinction. And I think that's a source of confusion amongst ourselves. And I think it may

[0:51:13] Trustee Bernardo: may well be a source of confusion the source of confusion that made the past visioning exercises

[0:51:20] Trustee Bernardo: and uh difficult in the sense that it wasn't able to settle or land on a clear statement

[0:51:27] Trustee Bernardo: and ended up in what tim had referred to with all this endless wordsmithing that went in circles

[0:51:32] Trustee Bernardo: because precisely because trust council didn't recognize that with the discretion that it has

[0:51:41] Trustee Bernardo: but there's it also it has discretion but it also there are section three puts boundaries on it

[0:51:46] Trustee Bernardo: there you know there's a lot of room for trust council to make to take different you know to

[0:51:54] Trustee Bernardo: interpret its mandate in any given specific situation but the mandate does have a specific

[0:52:00] Trustee Bernardo: meaning you know it and it's it's available to us we can work towards that and arrive at a specific

[0:52:06] Trustee Bernardo: meaning for it so uh when the ceo had mentioned you know maybe we could arrive at you know uh

[0:52:13] Trustee Bernardo: at a in september we could try to encourage trust council to reach kind of a vision statement of

[0:52:18] Trustee Bernardo: some sort and then the values thing comes in later i that makes a lot of sense to me but i

[0:52:25] Trustee Bernardo: i talk about wordsmithing i really think the word values is misleading and tricky here

[0:52:31] Trustee Bernardo: What I see that highlighted list of items there, those aren't values. Those are groping towards strategic goals. And as Trustee Patrick has pointed out, a vision is the big umbrella that allows quite a bit of variability within the emphasis or variability on the emphasis Trust Council may wish to put on this or that strategic goal.

[0:52:55] Trustee Bernardo: But the strategic goal has to be in service of a defined mission, a defined vision.

[0:53:04] Trustee Bernardo: And I think when I look at the results of the past visioning exercise, I think it's just, to me, it looks like it's got the fingerprints of a confused discussion where people didn't draw a distinction between strategic goals and a higher order vision or a mission statement.

[0:53:25] Trustee Bernardo: And that's why there was all this confusion, and that's why it's hard to settle on it, because people are thinking in operational terms of what's important to them, and they want to make sure the vision covers that, when in fact the vision really has to be based on what the legislature has told us our mission is, and that's in Section 3.

[0:53:43] Trustee Bernardo: So that takes me back to, you know, I think the CEO actually did spell out, I think, in rough terms, the direction we need to be going here, which is in September, we want to encourage Trust Council to settle on the big picture, the Section 3 thing.

[0:54:02] Trustee Bernardo: that's the engine that will drive the corporate plan and within the corporate plan that's when

[0:54:08] Trustee Bernardo: you have debates about strategic goals because you have to develop a strategic goal based on

[0:54:15] Trustee Bernardo: that kernel of what the vision is trust council has to sort of this term decide in what some

[0:54:21] Trustee Bernardo: specific strategic goals are that it has and then from that will flow the programs and the things

[0:54:27] Trustee Bernardo: that we do and and its direction on how we spend our resources so i think the visioning exercise

[0:54:34] Trustee Bernardo: can be pretty simple you know it takes me back to the point i made before it really comes down to

[0:54:38] Trustee Bernardo: coming down to a a consensus view of what section three requires us to do and that creates the

[0:54:47] Trustee Bernardo: umbrella for us to define subsequently the strategic goal so do the september if we can

[0:54:54] Trustee Bernardo: and try to do the first thing, call that,

[0:54:57] Trustee Bernardo: that's the visioning exercise, working on section three.

[0:55:01] Trustee Bernardo: And then the rest of it follows after that,

[0:55:04] Trustee Bernardo: possibly as we get the corporate planning process underway.

[0:55:10] Voice 11: Jamie.

[0:55:15] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:55:16] Voice 3: You know, I have a question as to

[0:55:19] Voice 3: what does the legislation say?

[0:55:23] Voice 3: And I don't know if anybody else

[0:55:24] Voice 3: is confused on this or not,

[0:55:25] Voice 3: but it would be nice to know what is our focus

[0:55:29] Voice 3: as the Allen's Trust?

[0:55:31] Voice 3: are we a land use regulator with a an obligation to to to look at you know the overall social

[0:55:43] Voice 3: well-being of our communities and balance that with the environment or are we an environmental

[0:55:51] Voice 3: um you know uh community-based or community-minded um organization with land use

[0:56:00] Voice 3: being the secondary vision or not maybe not vision but the secondary um you know concern

[0:56:08] Voice 3: i know for some reason i'm thinking that we're actually a land use regulator and these other

[0:56:13] Voice 3: things are um secondary but um that may help in um determining what

[0:56:22] Voice 11: division is going to look like

[0:56:23] Voice 11: i'll leave it at that lee thank

[0:56:32] Trustee Middleton: you sheriff yeah i it's interesting the uh when we did this exercise

[0:56:37] Trustee Middleton: back in, what was it, 2017, you look at the results that have come out with these four draft

[0:56:41] Trustee Middleton: statements, they almost perfectly encapsulate what I would say is going to be the statement,

[0:56:50] Trustee Middleton: the balance statement referring to Section 3. Obviously, this is aspirational, and we've talked

[0:56:55] Trustee Middleton: about the Section 3 analysis of the various legal opinions being neutral. But I would say that

[0:57:04] Trustee Middleton: what you have there are basically four statements of the balance that the legal opinions have talked

[0:57:10] Trustee Middleton: to us

[0:57:11] Voice 11: about point of order please

[0:57:13] Trustee Bernardo: um

[0:57:15] Voice 11: yeah

[0:57:17] Trustee Bernardo: we are not we ought not to be referencing legal opinions

[0:57:20] Trustee Bernardo: or talking about that sort of thing okay that's

[0:57:24] Trustee Bernardo: fair enough that's for closed session only

[0:57:27] Trustee Middleton: so i i guess what i would suggest then is we have um um four uh versions of um

[0:57:39] Trustee Middleton: a vision statement that to me look perfectly serviceable um could we not then present these

[0:57:48] Trustee Middleton: um by the way the the hidden dragon's egg of of uh of legal statements will have to be unearthed

[0:57:58] Trustee Middleton: and given a level of accountability to our public at some point so be no wonder illusions as to that

[0:58:04] Trustee Middleton: fact however that's an editorial comment um so i would suggest that these four vision statements

[0:58:11] Trustee Middleton: um are probably perfectly serviceable given the uh the the comments that have just been made about

[0:58:19] Trustee Middleton: section three could we not put these um forward um and basically you know there may be some

[0:58:30] Trustee Middleton: discussion around the wording but based on what what we've just talked about in terms of uh

[0:58:34] Trustee Middleton: where we hope council get to in terms of an understanding of the section three mandate

[0:58:39] Trustee Middleton: i think we've got four statements here that are perfectly serviceable so could that could these

[0:58:45] Trustee Middleton: not simply be presented for um um endorsement um modification of course by by council as part

[0:58:55] Voice 11: of a visioning statement jamie yeah

[0:59:03] Voice 3: why can't we present all four and have a discussion with

[0:59:07] Voice 3: trust council yeah

[0:59:10] Voice 7: maybe a straw poll or something russ

[0:59:12] Voice 7: well

[0:59:13] Voice 5: my goodness this would be such an

[0:59:15] Voice 5: exemplary example of efficiency to have had the these generated five four four or five years ago

[0:59:23] Voice 5: and then to return to them and actually use the consultants dollars that we got to come up with

[0:59:29] Voice 5: them in the first place that would be awesome um i don't see a reason why not i guess the the

[0:59:37] Voice 5: thinking would be initially there would be a section three discussion and it would be something

[0:59:45] Voice 5: Something like some resolution to that would occur or not occur.

[0:59:49] Voice 5: Let's assume it occurred.

[0:59:51] Voice 5: It would be there, given the work we've done and our understanding of Section 3, then...

[1:00:00] Voice 5: They get translated in terms of vision into one of these four statements or a fifth that's culled from this group that's an amalgam that represents that Section 3 discussion of this Trust Council.

[1:00:14] Voice 5: Is that the logic?

[1:00:16] Voice 7: Sounds like it.

[1:00:20] Voice 5: I'm looking at ways to present the story to Trust Council, like the sequence of events where they turn their minds to one thing, and then given a resolution, they turn their minds to the next.

[1:00:32] Voice 5: and i don't see any reason why you couldn't start with these four i'm not sure

[1:00:37] Voice 7: is there um a

[1:00:39] Voice 7: distinction it part of what um when laura when you were talking part of what i was thinking is

[1:00:45] Voice 7: that we need to have an explanation in terms and joe you brought it up um what what the nuances

[1:00:52] Voice 7: are what we're distinguishing uh vision values strategic goals um you know some of the the

[1:01:00] Voice 7: the nuances of this so that it doesn't feel like a chicken and egg or horse and cart kind of

[1:01:05] Voice 7: situation in terms of should we have the values and the underlying first before we build and agree

[1:01:11] Voice 7: on the you know can we agree on the values or the strategic goals in order to build the vision or

[1:01:18] Voice 7: you know do we have a bright north star that we're working towards and then that helps us um create

[1:01:24] Voice 7: what some of the values are or you know the strategic goals I think we need to have a

[1:01:32] Voice 7: distinction and an explanation in terms of what it is we're trying to get people to wrap their

[1:01:39] Voice 7: heads around and I think the section three discussion is going to help us end up with

[1:01:46] Voice 7: a vision statement of whether it's one of these four or a fifth one that's that is going to help

[1:01:51] Voice 7: And I think once we have the Section 3 discussion, we're going to be in better shape in terms of figuring out.

[1:01:57] Voice 7: And if one or another, let's say that one of these had been accepted by the previous council, that would be the North Star.

[1:02:06] Voice 7: And then you can work on whether or not you agree on the values and whether or not you can sort out the strategic goals for each term or each year.

[1:02:15] Voice 7: Is that

[1:02:16] Voice 11: ultimately where we're going to end up or what we're aiming for?

[1:02:25] Trustee Patrick: Laura, are you still there?

[1:02:26] Trustee Patrick: Oh, yeah, sorry.

[1:02:27] Trustee Patrick: I had just flipped back in the corporate plan document on page 18 of our agenda package.

[1:02:38] Trustee Patrick: It's in there.

[1:02:40] Trustee Patrick: I mean, and I think you're right.

[1:02:41] Trustee Patrick: The definition of language should be clear.

[1:02:43] Trustee Patrick: You know, what is the vision?

[1:02:45] Trustee Patrick: What's the mission mandate?

[1:02:46] Trustee Patrick: What's the values?

[1:02:48] Trustee Patrick: It's language.

[1:02:49] Trustee Patrick: And if we agree on what the definitions of those things are, I think it would help everyone tremendously.

[1:02:55] Trustee Patrick: And

[1:02:59] Voice 11: is that a recommendation

[1:03:00] Voice 7: that the Governance Council can help with?

[1:03:05] Voice 7: Do we work through that now, what that

[1:03:07] Voice 11: language is about?

[1:03:17] Voice 11: So we've got vision, values, and strategic goals.

[1:03:25] Voice 7: Are those the distinctions?

[1:03:27] Voice 5: Well, I think there's vision, there's mission, or mandate.

[1:03:31] Voice 5: I think those are distinct.

[1:03:33] Voice 10: right and

[1:03:34] Voice 5: this is regular strategic plans and i'm not making it up um this is you know the

[1:03:40] Voice 5: the sequence events for most organizations and then what follows is is values then goal setting

[1:03:46] Voice 5: and then work um so the top you know the swat is the what's going on around us what's going on

[1:03:56] Voice 5: inside our organization um what's our vision what's our mission or mandate and quite often that

[1:04:04] Voice 5: It has seemed that the policy statement has been referred to as the vision, or it should express the vision, and Section 3 is the mission or the mandate of the organization, why we are here.

[1:04:17] Voice 5: That's just, you know, I won't enter into that conversation.

[1:04:24] Voice 7: We're different for most, though, in terms of having a legislated mandate.

[1:04:28] Voice 11: Correct.

[1:04:30] Voice 7: So does that come first?

[1:04:32] Voice 7: Those are some limitations, possibly?

[1:04:36] Voice 7: or joel

[1:04:39] Trustee Bernardo: well as a governance committee i mean i mean isn't it our role to sort of be helpful

[1:04:46] Trustee Bernardo: and in helping trust council sort of sort through this confusion uh it seems to me it's not that

[1:04:53] Trustee Bernardo: complicated i mean if i mean if we can reach consensus amongst ourselves that um visioning

[1:05:04] Trustee Bernardo: uh you know a proper visioning exercise has to start with the section three analysis and

[1:05:11] Trustee Bernardo: some conclusions about what section three means and that's what we tell trust council that that's

[1:05:19] Trustee Bernardo: how we see visioning like you've got to go through that hoop first before you do anything else

[1:05:24] Trustee Bernardo: because otherwise you're just going to end up going in circles and then once you've got that

[1:05:31] Trustee Bernardo: vision and you know i i don't see a distinction unlike the ceo between that vision and the

[1:05:37] Trustee Bernardo: mission statement i don't know or maybe we're quibbling over words but i do see a distinction

[1:05:40] Trustee Bernardo: between um vision slash mission and those larger or the sort of those uh strategic goals uh if if

[1:05:54] Trustee Bernardo: we can just get something like that before trust committee in terms of saying or trust council in

[1:05:59] Trustee Bernardo: terms of saying look you guys to get collectively we need to figure out section three here and that

[1:06:05] Trustee Bernardo: That will be the vision.

[1:06:07] Trustee Bernardo: And what flows from that doesn't necessarily determine what the strategic goals will be,

[1:06:15] Trustee Bernardo: but it creates the framework for identifying strategic goals and testing the goals against

[1:06:24] Trustee Bernardo: what the mandate actually is.

[1:06:28] Trustee Bernardo: And then you go from there.

[1:06:30] Trustee Bernardo: and because i wouldn't want to confuse the visioning exercise with the other exercise

[1:06:41] Trustee Bernardo: which is it's actually contemplated by the corporate planning process of identifying

[1:06:45] Trustee Bernardo: strategic goals but it's a different thing so again i you know i think i'm hearing a consensus

[1:06:52] Trustee Bernardo: that we need to sort of fix you know help trust council get to that first bit the vision part

[1:06:59] Trustee Bernardo: and then the rest will flow from that so i guess i'm i'm groping towards is our best counsel to

[1:07:08] Trustee Bernardo: trust counsel would be yes you need a visioning exercise it's called you need to get your act

[1:07:14] Voice 11: together with section with section three thanks laura

[1:07:21] Trustee Patrick: kind of yes they're related i absolutely

[1:07:25] Trustee Patrick: agree they're related but i think um from from all the like i've read so many uh corporate plans

[1:07:33] Trustee Patrick: and strategic plans and from pretty much almost every municipality in BC.

[1:07:40] Trustee Patrick: The vision is that future state. It's the why we're here. Now, you can say that,

[1:07:47] Trustee Patrick: and there's no question, our mandate and mission was given to us. So, we don't get to make that up.

[1:07:54] Trustee Patrick: We should interpret it, but we don't get to make it up that we were given it. And that's what that

[1:07:59] Trustee Patrick: That says in the corporate plan under step two, understand your mission.

[1:08:02] Trustee Patrick: It says, well, we got it.

[1:08:03] Trustee Patrick: It's that object statement.

[1:08:06] Trustee Patrick: But we should spend some time still having that general statement.

[1:08:12] Trustee Patrick: Now, is it the interpretation that we could have of the mission statement and what that

[1:08:19] Trustee Patrick: looks like?

[1:08:19] Trustee Patrick: But it should be sort of a future down the road thing as to all of our work that we're

[1:08:24] Trustee Patrick: doing is headed in that direction.

[1:08:26] Voice 11: question amy so

[1:08:35] Voice 3: you know i see it as we're not a municipal government we don't have the powers of

[1:08:40] Voice 3: a municipal government and the governance review is something that we cannot forget about um the

[1:08:47] Voice 3: extreme kickback you know the support anyway so but going back to section three i agree a hundred

[1:08:55] Voice 3: percent that needs to be ironed out and we there needs to be precise wording on that and from there

[1:09:03] Voice 3: the rest can come but until that's done we will

[1:09:07] Voice 11: i think be talking in circles all right so i don't

[1:09:17] Voice 11: see any other hands up um so

[1:09:20] Voice 7: the process for september is to do the section three discussion

[1:09:27] Voice 7: uh have an explanation and an endorsement of the corporate plan and then from that try and resolve

[1:09:35] Voice 7: this vision statement um and somewhere in here um under the reference that laura made to the

[1:09:43] Voice 7: corporate planning um vision statement being visionary um that might help people understand

[1:09:50] Voice 7: um and then that would open up if we can keep it focused on that and maybe use these four

[1:09:58] Voice 7: recommendations from the previous work um and distinguish between the list of the strategic

[1:10:04] Voice 7: goals have some sort of an explanation in terms of what values might look like um and i'm assuming

[1:10:12] Voice 7: that's things like democratic and procedural fairness and um those kinds of of process things

[1:10:25] Voice 7: um that would help this council or any other council if we can go through that process in

[1:10:32] Voice 7: some sort of a step-by-step form um that would help the both the discussion and our future work

[1:10:42] Voice 7: on the corporate planning does that help

[1:10:46] Voice 11: you russ that

[1:10:48] Voice 5: helps me i um this this has helped me

[1:10:52] Voice 5: i would then ask do you want to have a hired like so let's say some version of what we've talked

[1:10:59] Voice 5: about you know i'm going to go back and i'm going to look at this recording and and and get the

[1:11:03] Voice 5: nuggets out of it in a way that's been described that honors the conversation here how would you

[1:11:10] Voice 5: best feel that occur um do you want a hired person in there to facilitate that is it okay if i write

[1:11:19] Voice 5: some of these definitions out in a staff report and then launch a visiting session that's

[1:11:26] Voice 5: facilitated by either staff or an elected official to get that going how do you how would you feel

[1:11:33] Voice 5: you would get your best outcome because this is the how this is the how part we've touched a

[1:11:42] Voice 5: little bit on the what and it's almost august and september's rolling on and i um anyway that that's

[1:11:52] Voice 5: a that's a question for easy to contemplate and i think they're just taking your good advice at

[1:11:56] Voice 5: this stage joe

[1:11:58] Trustee Bernardo: yeah uh to answer the specific question i don't see any uh advantage or value

[1:12:05] Trustee Bernardo: to hiring outside consultant at this juncture somebody the work of this committee you know

[1:12:15] Trustee Bernardo: we've gone a fair distance in identifying how things like the section you know the in working

[1:12:24] Trustee Bernardo: off the governance review report identifying how things like the historical inability to reach

[1:12:32] Trustee Bernardo: a defined uh statement with respect to section three has hamstrung us there are nuances to that

[1:12:39] Trustee Bernardo: uh you need to have some inside knowledge here about how these things are tangled

[1:12:43] Trustee Bernardo: and i don't think a an outside facilitator is going to be able to will would be able to facilitate

[1:12:51] Trustee Bernardo: uh probably a constructive more general conversation but we're getting very specific

[1:12:57] Trustee Bernardo: care in terms of things that require an expertise. And I think the expertise is a knowledge of what

[1:13:05] Trustee Bernardo: we do now and how Section 3 has been dealt with in the past and how it's not been dealt with,

[1:13:11] Trustee Bernardo: all that kind of stuff. I think we're better off just having the envisioning exercise run

[1:13:17] Trustee Bernardo: internally, perhaps by staff or perhaps by some combination of staff and trustees working together

[1:13:23] Trustee Bernardo: other uh to to to do that but i don't see a huge amount of value getting somebody from the outside

[1:13:28] Trustee Bernardo: at this late day

[1:13:31] Voice 11: jamie i i don't uh i

[1:13:39] Voice 3: don't see the value of hiring someone to do this as well

[1:13:42] Voice 3: again i think precise wording is needed on section three and i think we're putting the cart before

[1:13:46] Voice 3: course here to some degree and uh seems apparent to me

[1:13:52] Voice 11: but um maybe i see things through different

[1:13:55] Voice 11: compromise I would agree oh sorry Lee thanks

[1:14:06] Trustee Middleton: chair yeah I just had so what if we don't come

[1:14:09] Trustee Middleton: to agreement on a statement in regards section three then this visioning statement will just

[1:14:14] Trustee Middleton: be an abject disaster exercise you know it's uh do we do we need to take that note of caution from

[1:14:21] Trustee Middleton: trustee Harrison perhaps um perhaps defer the visioning until we've seen what kind of success

[1:14:27] Trustee Middleton: or lack thereof we might have with a discussion of consensus

[1:14:32] Trustee Middleton: around the Section 3 mandate.

[1:14:36] Voice 7: Do you think that if we go through the process

[1:14:40] Voice 7: and we can't come to an agreement on interpretation of the mandate

[1:14:44] Voice 7: and we understand what the resistance is or what the blocks are

[1:14:50] Voice 7: or where we need more help, that is the time to consider

[1:14:54] Voice 7: whether or not we need to have somebody that's outside the organization

[1:14:57] Voice 7: organization to help i mean if we keep this in-house i think we can um i i think this

[1:15:04] Voice 7: group for instance has a fairly broad um difference of opinion and you know we've come up with

[1:15:13] Voice 7: something that we can work with and if we can do it i think we can help the trust council

[1:15:17] Voice 7: get to a certain point but if we do end up not being able to uh come to an agreement we're

[1:15:23] Voice 7: we're going to have a lot more information in terms of where the differences are and what we

[1:15:27] Voice 7: need to discuss and we can get help then i would think but you know for september we got a lot on

[1:15:32] Voice 7: our plate and i think that we can try this would be my recommendation and um you know use some of

[1:15:39] Voice 7: these previous the work that's been done in 2017 and see whether or not we can um come up with

[1:15:45] Voice 7: a visionary statement um

[1:15:50] Trustee Patrick: laura absolutely i agree with you completely um i i i have to hope

[1:15:58] Trustee Patrick: hope that a group of 26 can can work our way through understanding section three and agreeing

[1:16:06] Trustee Patrick: and then agreeing on a vision absolutely complements and works within that box and if we

[1:16:13] Trustee Patrick: can't then we do know more of what kind of outside help we need to get there i was not here when this

[1:16:21] Trustee Patrick: last trust this was the two terms ago that this uh that this trust council stumbled over this

[1:16:28] Trustee Patrick: and why we moved on and never figured out

[1:16:30] Trustee Patrick: why we couldn't agree to four statements

[1:16:33] Trustee Patrick: or the trust council.

[1:16:34] Trustee Patrick: So I think let's have hope and expectations

[1:16:37] Trustee Patrick: that the group can work through this.

[1:16:40] Trustee Patrick: And if it can't, boy, then this group

[1:16:44] Trustee Patrick: has to meet back again and say,

[1:16:45] Trustee Patrick: what do we need to help get there?

[1:16:50] Voice 11: Peter.

[1:16:51] Voice 11: I agree

[1:16:56] Trustee Luckham: with you, Trustee Gredys,

[1:16:57] Trustee Luckham: and I agree wholeheartedly with Trustee Patrick.

[1:17:00] Trustee Luckham: Patrick, and thank you, trustee Patrick, for aspiring hope. I think one of the things that

[1:17:05] Trustee Luckham: we lack generally in society and maybe at trust is trust and hope. And I think that there's no

[1:17:17] Trustee Luckham: failure if we don't get to a vision. I think that's important to recognize. There's no failure

[1:17:21] Trustee Luckham: if we don't get to a vision statement, because what we will know is more about what we think

[1:17:26] Trustee Luckham: about what a vision statement may or may not include and then indeed we might be able to

[1:17:31] Trustee Luckham: uh have somebody assist us in that but it's not like we're trying to mediate a conflict

[1:17:36] Trustee Luckham: we're trying to reach towards a vision and um so i think this is a good approach

[1:17:44] Voice 11: at this time okay

[1:17:50] Voice 11: um

[1:17:51] Voice 7: you've got uh quarter to 12 by my watch um and um i noticed on one earlier that i had um

[1:18:00] Voice 7: put this down from nine till 12 but i saw something else in terms of it going until

[1:18:05] Voice 7: one what's everybody understanding everybody's understanding of our time limits here we don't

[1:18:10] Voice 7: have a lot more on the agenda but i

[1:18:13] Voice 5: think it was scheduled for nine till twelve okay

[1:18:16] Voice 7: yeah so then

[1:18:18] Voice 7: um that's a better amount of time three hours is plenty um can we wrap this up with a general

[1:18:27] Voice 7: little discussion about the visioning process and it seems to me that we've agreed that we'll have

[1:18:32] Voice 7: a lengthy and detailed conversation about section three and if we can come to a consensus that'll

[1:18:38] Voice 7: help in many ways and there's going to be an introduction explanation of the corporate

[1:18:43] Voice 7: planning and hopefully an endorsement of that and once we get through that then we're hoping

[1:18:51] Voice 7: we're going to be in the position of coming up with the vision statement and we're going to try

[1:18:56] Voice 7: Is that the recommendation we've got for executive committee and their working of the agenda for September?

[1:19:08] Voice 11: Anybody disagree with that timeline or that outline?

[1:19:16] Voice 11: All right.

[1:19:17] Voice 7: What I notice is missing from all of this is from a governance committee point of view and the governance review in terms of the process, there's nothing in here.

[1:19:30] Voice 7: here and I see in the step three of the corporate plan was determining values which facilitate

[1:19:36] Voice 7: better and more streamlined decision making but I think that's something that we need to

[1:19:40] Voice 7: put our minds to at some point in the future and the other question that I have is what happens

[1:19:48] Voice 7: with the SWOT exercise material where does that come in well

[1:19:56] Voice 5: madam chair I've reviewed that

[1:19:59] Voice 5: material that is is part of the corporate planning process so it's it's stage one of that

[1:20:04] Voice 5: i don't think it uh it could inform both the section three and the visioning discussion but

[1:20:11] Voice 5: we we then run into the danger of just having too many things come in at one time

[1:20:16] Voice 5: it was a value i think um it's pretty general um the swat having read it but it would be

[1:20:24] Voice 5: reintroduced later on in the term as part of this of the actual corporate planning process here's

[1:20:29] Voice 5: the swat it might even get refreshed at a certain point but that was the first time this trust

[1:20:34] Voice 5: council had taken the time to look uh look at all those different factors if you're asking whether

[1:20:39] Voice 5: it needs to show up in september or not i i personally don't think so um but it certainly

[1:20:45] Voice 5: could but it's it's it's to be part of the corporate planning process which is unfolding

[1:20:50] Voice 5: all

[1:20:51] Voice 7: right so let's leave it for now and we'll sort um in terms of if we were to redo that

[1:20:59] Voice 7: um or to renew it uh it would be better for trustees to have had this background

[1:21:04] Voice 7: discussion i think um in terms of having vision statement and some of the values all right so

[1:21:12] Voice 7: shall we wrap this up and is that enough direction for staff in terms of a general discussion thanks

[1:21:18] Voice 5: very much i appreciate it um and um you've answered two of these three of the questions

[1:21:24] Voice 5: that are needed so i'm going to prepare um a report that's going to leverage the section

[1:21:29] Voice 5: three discussion moving into some sort of vision discussion we will um there'll be some definition

[1:21:34] Voice 5: generic definitions of what those things are i would include that in the report i will not make

[1:21:39] Voice 5: it a super long one and um we'll also uh provide the previous work as examples that trust council

[1:21:48] Voice 5: could consider moving forward to see if that works for them sounds

[1:21:52] Voice 7: good and

[1:21:53] Voice 5: that's what i will take

[1:21:54] Voice 5: to ec and ec will contemplate that later uh later this week all

[1:21:59] Voice 7: right thank you very

[1:22:01] Voice 5: much i appreciate

[1:22:01] Voice 5: the time all

[1:22:03] Voice 7: right so then um moving on in the agenda section nine was the governance committee

[1:22:09] Voice 7: section of the 2022-23 islands trust annual report and a briefing note on that uh that was uh i think

[1:22:18] Voice 7: um could and should be done by consent i don't think there needs to be any discussion on that

[1:22:24] Voice 7: um that was the one where we uh forgot to put it on our last agenda uh did a straw poll and an email

[1:22:32] Voice 7: agreement, and it got into the annual report, and that was on the agenda for the last

[1:22:40] Voice 7: Trust Council meeting, the actual annual report. Do I have any dissent to that just being by

[1:22:50] Voice 7: consent? All right. The next is new business, and other than the item that Laura brought up earlier,

[1:23:04] Voice 7: And then we're going to consider the matrix and the work statement.

[1:23:09] Voice 7: I think we can just jump down to 11, the correspondence.

[1:23:14] Voice 11: Fair

[1:23:17] Voice 7: enough. Any disagreement? No hands raised. Okay.

[1:23:22] Voice 7: So the correspondence was a letter that I received from,

[1:23:25] Voice 7: that was forwarded to me because the governance committee was mentioned and

[1:23:30] Voice 7: it's there to be tabled for receipt by this committee.

[1:23:35] Voice 7: um and one of the most important parts that was raised on that was the terms of reference um and

[1:23:42] Voice 7: the mandate of the uh governance committee uh were difficult to find on the website and that has been

[1:23:48] Voice 7: corrected i double checked this morning so um this it's an interesting letter in terms of the basic

[1:23:54] Voice 7: premises and then it um it goes off in a great deal of opinion um about um how we're meeting or

[1:24:02] Voice 7: not meeting um some of the um uh values that he describes in that and i think that we um basically

[1:24:13] Voice 7: just take it on for information and if we do want or need to reply to uh this person then we do that

[1:24:20] Voice 7: after we have the vision statement in the the larger discussion with the whole group so uh

[1:24:26] Voice 7: tabled as receipt received that would be my

[1:24:31] Voice 11: motion any a seconder for that can i get a seconder for

[1:24:38] Voice 11: that thank you laura all right all in favor thank

[1:24:48] Voice 7: you all right so then we're bound to um

[1:24:51] Voice 7: work program and the governance committee matrix so page 39 of this agenda thank you laurie um

[1:24:59] Voice 7: the urgent and high priority all of those are still in play um and laura you had wanted to

[1:25:09] Voice 7: um can you speak to this in terms of your new business i'd

[1:25:15] Trustee Patrick: be happy to following trust council

[1:25:18] Trustee Patrick: um or you know some consideration and talk about the process of the review of the one employee that

[1:25:26] Trustee Patrick: trust council has um i went back and reread the entire governance report and in the observations

[1:25:35] Trustee Patrick: or the early section of the report it did reference that trust council doesn't participate

[1:25:39] Trustee Patrick: in setting the objectives and while we have the management review being sort of a lower priority

[1:25:47] Trustee Patrick: not immediate i think there is an opportunity to at least consider the process of trust council

[1:25:52] Trustee Patrick: playing some role in the setting of objectives for the cao if that's something that you know is

[1:26:00] Trustee Patrick: what we could you know are we interested in something of that nature where the management

[1:26:06] Trustee Patrick: review to me is a big big piece but this is a small piece that fits us into something that

[1:26:11] Trustee Patrick: already exists so

[1:26:16] Voice 11: the um let

[1:26:18] Voice 7: me understand this so the the it's it was part of the governance review

[1:26:22] Voice 7: but the process is that um is it discussed with trust council in terms of um content and and

[1:26:32] Voice 7: comments and then that is dealt with um either by uh i assume peter you've got your hand up i'm

[1:26:39] Voice 7: I'm assuming that it's between you and Russ

[1:26:41] Voice 7: or between Executive Committee and Russ

[1:26:43] Voice 7: in terms of feedback and questions raised and whatever.

[1:26:48] Voice 7: Is

[1:26:49] Voice 11: that the process?

[1:26:52] Voice 11: You're mute.

[1:26:56] Voice 11: Thank you.

[1:26:59] Trustee Luckham: More or less, I guess I'll say.

[1:27:02] Trustee Luckham: Certainly, Executive Committee is the body that has historically

[1:27:07] Trustee Luckham: and I think is the process in place that hires and fires

[1:27:12] Trustee Luckham: the CAO. And over the years, I've been involved in that process as the chair and previously as

[1:27:22] Trustee Luckham: a member of the executive committee. And certainly, our last review was conducted a couple of years

[1:27:29] Trustee Luckham: ago now. It was identified by the previous executive committee that should obviously

[1:27:37] Trustee Luckham: continue as it is required to. And the recommendation was to engage a consultant

[1:27:42] Trustee Luckham: at this time to do a more fulsome review of the CAO's performance. And I have raised the topic,

[1:27:54] Trustee Luckham: and thank you, Laura, you've also mentioned it on a couple of occasions to me. And it has been

[1:27:59] Trustee Luckham: raised at executive committee, predominantly in camera because of that nature of it. But the

[1:28:05] Trustee Luckham: The intention is to follow the recommendations that were provided by the previous executive

[1:28:10] Trustee Luckham: committee, which is, and so that process has begun, and we need to determine where it's

[1:28:17] Trustee Luckham: going to fit in the time schedule, and I don't have anything additional to report to you

[1:28:24] Trustee Luckham: at this very moment in time, except I will say absolutely the intention is to engage

[1:28:29] Trustee Luckham: with council.

[1:28:30] Trustee Luckham: Historically, the Executive Committee has sought the remarks of the chairs of Trust Council, and essentially that expands the envelope for those that are the most familiar and most intimate with the work of the CAO to embrace the chairs of the committees in order to solicit their perspectives and points of view with respect to overall operations.

[1:28:58] Trustee Luckham: And so whether or not we go to what's referred to as a full 360 thing, or whether we just expand that horizon more to council. And typically, the pattern is a reporting out process to council, more so than a full engagement.

[1:29:15] Trustee Luckham: But I think that we will rely upon the professional expertise of an outside contractor to advise us on the best practice.

[1:29:26] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, I expect council, we will engage with council on that decision making process as we move forward.

[1:29:34] Voice 7: All right. So that is that imminent? Is it in process?

[1:29:39] Trustee Luckham: We have begun it. So certainly I would expect it to probably begin in earnest in the fall, but would be certainly happy to obviously be happy to hear the CEO's remarks with respect to the process.

[1:30:00] Trustee Luckham: through our authority. Working with PSA, remember, is that we have to work closely with PSA with

[1:30:09] Trustee Luckham: respect to pay levels, methods of review. It's very prescriptive as an employer, and we have

[1:30:17] Trustee Luckham: a template, a model that we use from the public service agency, and we'll follow that process

[1:30:24] Trustee Luckham: to for all the obvious reasons all

[1:30:29] Voice 7: right so then um given that this has come up as a topic should

[1:30:34] Voice 7: we move the not immediate lower priority uh point about management review up into urgent and high

[1:30:41] Voice 7: priority so that this committee looks at uh whatever the recommendations were in the governance

[1:30:48] Voice 7: review um keeping in mind and getting uh information and help from staff david you

[1:30:56] Voice 7: in particular in terms of what the limitations are for the the psa and whatever and what um

[1:31:02] Voice 7: if there's recommendations that this council wants to make to the uh executive committee

[1:31:10] Voice 7: in terms of involving the council oh there's a whole bunch of hands going up okay so peter

[1:31:18] Voice 7: your hand is still up?

[1:31:19] Trustee Luckham: Sure. I would like to provide the opportunity for the CAO to provide

[1:31:23] Trustee Luckham: any response or no response associated with our responsibilities through PSA. Okay. Russ,

[1:31:32] Voice 11: you're mute.

[1:31:36] Voice 5: If I may, the management review that's referred to in the governance report

[1:31:43] Voice 5: was not this topic. It is a review of the management of the organization as a whole.

[1:31:50] Voice 5: and it is uh there's a fair amount of language in the governance report which i'd refer you to

[1:31:58] Voice 5: for your consideration obviously um the cao assessment process is part of that but it's

[1:32:04] Voice 5: distinct from what's being um as it's described here uh right now i've got a committee that i'm

[1:32:11] Voice 5: working with the ec how you organize my review is of course up to trust council i serve at their

[1:32:16] Voice 5: pleasure. I wouldn't want to have personally two different committees that I'm speaking to

[1:32:21] Voice 5: with regards to the task that I'm provided. So I think that this on your list is a different thing

[1:32:32] Voice 5: than a separate process that is the review of a specific employee, i.e. myself. You might want to

[1:32:42] Voice 5: to think about how that gets organized overall but in terms of um you know the specifics of it

[1:32:50] Voice 5: generally it's in camera that conversation and at this point i've i've i've been um i've been

[1:32:58] Voice 5: reporting to a particular body um there may be a larger discussion that you wish to have around

[1:33:03] Voice 5: changing that i'm not sure um

[1:33:07] Voice 7: jamie your hand is up but can we get david's um comments first

[1:33:12] Voice 7: sure okay

[1:33:13] Voice 1: yeah thank you actually uh ceo just covered a couple uh i was just going to also

[1:33:18] Voice 1: just let you know uh that section 21 of the islands trust act uh allows trust council to

[1:33:25] Voice 1: delegate uh certain authorities the executive committee and policy 241 2.4.1 of trust council

[1:33:34] Voice 1: delegates that and lays out how the CEO is managed by the executive committee.

[1:33:41] Voice 1: So it would be a council decision if you wanted to make a change to that. And I was just going

[1:33:46] Voice 1: to comment that the management report didn't actually deal specifically with one individual,

[1:33:51] Voice 1: just general management. Okay, thank you. Jamie?

[1:33:55] Voice 3: I suppose that may have answered my question. I'm just curious as to know how

[1:34:00] Voice 3: how the performance review of the Island Trust CAO

[1:34:06] Voice 3: is conducted and what are the particulars about that,

[1:34:09] Voice 3: how it all works and is that something

[1:34:12] Voice 3: that Trust Council can know about?

[1:34:19] Voice 11: Okay, good question.

[1:34:20] Voice 11: Joe.

[1:34:27] Voice 11: Thanks.

[1:34:28] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, I think the CAO makes an important distinction.

[1:34:32] Trustee Bernardo: The management review as referenced

[1:34:34] Trustee Bernardo: in the governance report is a bigger picture,

[1:34:40] Trustee Bernardo: item uh more comprehensive if you look if you look at the references to it in context it it

[1:34:46] Trustee Bernardo: contemplates a lot more than the ceo performance assessment there's a reference in there somewhere

[1:34:53] Trustee Bernardo: or one in one or two places where it talks about how the tc the trust council doesn't really have

[1:35:00] Trustee Bernardo: a lot to say about that under the current arrangement but my recollection is governance

[1:35:05] Trustee Bernardo: review report doesn't delve too deeply into it but as the ceo pointed out performance review of

[1:35:10] Trustee Bernardo: staff generally and the performance review of staff is through the ceo uh you know that's a

[1:35:18] Trustee Bernardo: component of management review review so if what trustee patrick is wanting to examine that item

[1:35:26] Trustee Bernardo: first as part of a larger issue i suppose it might be moved up to urgent and high priority because

[1:35:31] Trustee Bernardo: the management review issue is a biggish one in the um governance review report and not unrelated

[1:35:41] Trustee Bernardo: to the corporate planning aspect because corporate planning has ramifications of how work is organized

[1:35:49] Trustee Bernardo: but generally how our systems i mean this is a big question is you know generally how our

[1:35:55] Trustee Bernardo: systems are structured and set up um in terms of the policies that we have are they effective

[1:36:01] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, that's all part of the management review as well.

[1:36:05] Trustee Bernardo: And so what I'm hearing from Trustee Patrick, though, is something akin to the basic point that trustees collectively are basically the customers for staff, of which the CEO is, you know, the sharp pointy end of that.

[1:36:26] Trustee Bernardo: and whether we call it a 360 review or not uh it does make a lot of sense in terms of

[1:36:36] Trustee Bernardo: what the executive committee has to work with in terms of information uh that it has

[1:36:44] Trustee Bernardo: the information from other trustees that it's consulted with the other trustees

[1:36:49] Trustee Bernardo: and uh i think you know and meeting with trustees one by one doesn't cut it really i mean there's

[1:36:57] Trustee Bernardo: some common issues and things that need to be aired out and i think it would be helpful to have

[1:37:01] Trustee Bernardo: a session where uh ceo's performance but also not just ceo's performance but just uh the management

[1:37:10] Trustee Bernardo: of staff generally and the approach generally is undertaken as part of this the part of the review

[1:37:16] Trustee Bernardo: and it's not that trust council would step in to take the role of being the you know um

[1:37:29] Trustee Bernardo: responsible body for the assessment the performance review all those type of issues but rather the way

[1:37:38] Trustee Bernardo: i'm seeing it is that executive committee would be well served to have the benefit of the views

[1:37:46] Trustee Bernardo: of each of the trustees and to have the benefit of a conversation amongst the trustees about

[1:37:50] Trustee Bernardo: how the organization's being managed what is being done well what has room for improvement

[1:37:56] Trustee Bernardo: that kind of thing.

[1:37:57] Trustee Bernardo: And then EC with that information is better armed

[1:37:59] Trustee Bernardo: to how it can exercise its judgment

[1:38:03] Trustee Bernardo: when it does the review under the current policies.

[1:38:07] Trustee Bernardo: And I'm not hearing trustee Patrick talking

[1:38:09] Trustee Bernardo: about changing the current policy at this time,

[1:38:12] Trustee Bernardo: because well, that's a really complicated piece of business

[1:38:15] Trustee Bernardo: and it's something that requires real care.

[1:38:19] Trustee Bernardo: And just because management review is referred to

[1:38:22] Trustee Bernardo: in the report doesn't necessarily mean

[1:38:26] Trustee Bernardo: everything has to be checked out it just it's a review thank

[1:38:30] Voice 11: you tim thank

[1:38:34] Voice 8: you chair um so

[1:38:36] Voice 8: yeah in general i just would agree to uh what uh trustee bernardo said and to uh trustee harris's

[1:38:43] Voice 8: point and and correct me anyone if you know that i'm wrong but my recollection is that um in past

[1:38:53] Voice 8: In the past, we have had Trust Council, a restricted closed session, you know, with all staff out of the room and some discussion amongst Trust Council about how the performance review of the CAO has gone and is suggested to happen.

[1:39:21] Voice 8: So maybe that's something we could consider prior to that, the actual review taking place so that all the new trustees sort of have a little bit of a view of what the past practice has been and sort of what the thoughts of EC are on how to proceed.

[1:39:43] Voice 8: And then maybe that's a good time to have a bit of an open discussion, a closed discussion and a restricted session so that trustees can ask questions about how that process unfolds.

[1:39:58] Voice 8: I think that might be helpful for certainly for all the new trustees and then any trustees who

[1:40:03] Voice 8: have concerns with the processes that has been or suggestions about how it could go to be improved

[1:40:09] Voice 8: that might be a really good opportunity for EC to get all of that and if there's a strong will

[1:40:16] Voice 8: to change it then you know that is up to trust council but just my thoughts.

[1:40:21] Voice 7: Thank you. Laura

[1:40:22] Voice 7: Laura, I'm mindful of the time.

[1:40:24] Voice 7: We're over.

[1:40:25] Trustee Patrick: I'll be quick.

[1:40:27] Trustee Patrick: I was not proposing an overhaul of anything or that this solved the management review.

[1:40:34] Trustee Patrick: It was an opportunity.

[1:40:35] Trustee Patrick: The governance report just didn't sew things together.

[1:40:38] Trustee Patrick: It did put out that Trust Council is not involved in the review of the CAO, and it also suggested that it should be setting objectives and targets.

[1:40:49] Trustee Patrick: but then it didn't land in any recommendations other than it makes sense that it is an aspect

[1:40:56] Trustee Patrick: of management review. So I just saw it as an opportunity that we could correct or involve

[1:41:02] Trustee Patrick: trust counsel more openly in the process, not replace it, not have a different group that's

[1:41:08] Trustee Patrick: being the marching orders. EC is that party, but we get plugged into the process more fulsome.

[1:41:16] Trustee Patrick: All

[1:41:19] Voice 7: right. So rather than move this in the matrix, well, do you want to move it up in the matrix so that we start to next on our list of things to do to figure it out?

[1:41:32] Voice 7: It seems to me that if it's part of the corporate planning, the overall more general, broader, how governance works and or management of the organization works, it's not a bad idea.

[1:41:44] Voice 7: Or we have some sort of intentions that have been spoken to by both Tim and Peter about, you know, intending to engage council and in the past, contacting the various chairs.

[1:42:02] Voice 7: That hopefully might be enough to satisfy people in terms of the process that's happening with respect to the management review and the CAO process part of it.

[1:42:16] Voice 7: But a larger issue is to start in on something else in terms of a broader management review.

[1:42:24] Voice 7: So

[1:42:24] Voice 11: move it or not.

[1:42:28] Voice 11: Jamie?

[1:42:30] Voice 11: I'd be in favor of moving it.

[1:42:32] Voice 3: anybody

[1:42:34] Voice 7: opposed it's just the opening gamut and to we've got enough on our plate with these other

[1:42:40] Voice 7: three that are already there but we could um put that in there as what something we'll work on next

[1:42:48] Voice 7: anybody

[1:42:48] Voice 11: opposed to that joe i'm not opposed to

[1:42:58] Trustee Bernardo: the idea of moving the management review up

[1:43:00] Trustee Bernardo: to urgent and high priority as but with the understanding it's the whole thing it's it's

[1:43:08] Trustee Bernardo: the larger picture yeah um the immediate so the immediate matter though um i don't know if it

[1:43:14] Trustee Bernardo: requires a resolution or not but what i'm hearing is that uh and trustee patrick can correct me is

[1:43:22] Trustee Bernardo: you know a suggestion that we recommended executive committee that they consult with

[1:43:28] Trustee Bernardo: the trustees at a joint meeting uh you know prior to undertaking the review of the ceo

[1:43:36] Trustee Bernardo: And to be clear, when I say that, my understanding is a review of the CAO is also the framework for input about how management is generally happening and challenges that management is facing.

[1:43:52] Trustee Bernardo: you know it's

[1:43:54] Trustee Bernardo: not just the employment aspect of the ceo it's a larger picture of what's

[1:43:57] Trustee Bernardo: happening in the organization that that's the framework and that uh prior to the executive

[1:44:03] Trustee Bernardo: committee uh engaging in its performance review of the ceo that the executive committee consult

[1:44:09] Trustee Bernardo: with the trustees as a whole about ceo's performance but also those larger staff

[1:44:16] Trustee Bernardo: management issues and it's a consultative issue no resolution will come out of it

[1:44:21] Trustee Bernardo: that it's just a matter of getting the,

[1:44:23] Trustee Bernardo: making sure the executive committee is well-informed.

[1:44:26] Trustee Bernardo: So that's my understanding of it.

[1:44:28] Trustee Bernardo: If that's where Trustee Patrick is in favor of,

[1:44:31] Trustee Bernardo: then whether it's by consent or by motion,

[1:44:33] Trustee Bernardo: I'd be happy to support something like that.

[1:44:36] Voice 7: All right, so let's have a resolution

[1:44:38] Voice 7: to move management review from up

[1:44:42] Voice 7: into the upper right quadrant

[1:44:43] Voice 7: in terms of urgent and high priority.

[1:44:45] Voice 7: And we'll probably start to work on it

[1:44:49] Voice 7: in our October meeting.

[1:44:50] Voice 7: I'm sorry, Peter, you have your hand up.

[1:44:55] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, no, I think what you're doing is moving that up into the priority, and then you're

[1:45:02] Trustee Luckham: going to have a discussion about what that actually means, as Trustee Bernardo has touched

[1:45:06] Trustee Luckham: on there.

[1:45:07] Trustee Luckham: And so I think that's fine.

[1:45:10] Trustee Luckham: I think what's important to say at this juncture is that that overall employee management

[1:45:16] Trustee Luckham: management responsibility, which is the CAO's responsibility through his juniors,

[1:45:24] Trustee Luckham: and that phrase used respectfully, of course, a senior management, it would be better to say,

[1:45:31] Trustee Luckham: and the review of the CAO's performance is two different things. Certainly, there's an element

[1:45:39] Trustee Luckham: in there that the CEO's performance, as reviewed, would embrace how that broader management is

[1:45:50] Trustee Luckham: being handled and is presently part of the PSA guidelines with respect. We certainly had those

[1:45:59] Trustee Luckham: discussions, and absolutely, you can be sure that we will be engaging a council in this and

[1:46:06] Trustee Luckham: and providing them updates both in camera

[1:46:09] Trustee Luckham: and then possibly even out of camera,

[1:46:12] Trustee Luckham: but it all depends on the flavor of it.

[1:46:15] Trustee Luckham: But I think that the overall subject as referenced

[1:46:19] Trustee Luckham: in the governance report could certainly be elevated

[1:46:23] Trustee Luckham: as you see fit, so thank you.

[1:46:27] Voice 7: All

[1:46:27] Voice 11: right, can I get a seconder to the resolution?

[1:46:33] Voice 11: Laura, anybody opposed?

[1:46:34] Voice 11: proposed.

[1:46:37] Voice 7: Okay. So, Laurie, if you could amend the matrix to change management review up into

[1:46:45] Voice 7: urgent and high priority. And by way of general background, it's just to add it as the list of

[1:46:55] Voice 7: things that we're going to start to discuss. And we have to review the management review.

[1:47:01] Voice 7: review okay um next on the agenda is the next meeting so um our next scheduled meeting is

[1:47:12] Voice 7: october the 16th electronically beginning at 9 a.m and the question about scheduling an additional

[1:47:19] Voice 7: meeting august the 31st which would be just before the next um trust council meeting september the

[1:47:27] Voice 7: fifth so we've got um homework in terms of coming up with uh a nice just succinct uh summary of our

[1:47:40] Voice 7: section three um do we need the meeting on august 31st joe uh

[1:47:49] Trustee Bernardo: yeah uh yes i'll address that point

[1:47:51] Trustee Bernardo: yeah i think we probably do need the meeting october 30 or august 31st to consider um whatever

[1:47:57] Trustee Bernardo: whatever we're able to come up with

[1:47:58] Trustee Bernardo: in terms of a mission statement

[1:48:01] Trustee Bernardo: or a basic direction statement, possibly.

[1:48:07] Trustee Bernardo: And I'd like to take the opportunity to just

[1:48:09] Trustee Bernardo: to clarify something.

[1:48:11] Trustee Bernardo: It's not, it wasn't clear to me

[1:48:14] Trustee Bernardo: from what Chair Luckin was saying that

[1:48:18] Trustee Bernardo: what Trustee Packer had been asking for is going to happen,

[1:48:21] Trustee Bernardo: which is the wide ranging consultation.

[1:48:24] Trustee Bernardo: Is that happening?

[1:48:25] Trustee Bernardo: Yes or no?

[1:48:26] Voice 11: Well, I would say that

[1:48:35] Trustee Luckham: personally, the intent is to expand the horizons of the review that has been done previously.

[1:48:42] Trustee Luckham: And the intention at this point is to engage with a consultant to facilitate that.

[1:48:48] Trustee Luckham: So generally, the answer is yes. But we haven't made that.

[1:48:54] Trustee Luckham: Executive committee hasn't made a decision of that nature, nor have they actually made a decision about hiring a consultant.

[1:49:01] Trustee Luckham: But certainly that's the task that's outlined.

[1:49:04] Trustee Luckham: It's just very early.

[1:49:05] Trustee Luckham: We've only had one very brief conversation about it.

[1:49:10] Trustee Bernardo: Well, does that mean that we as a committee want to make that as a recommendation?

[1:49:15] Trustee Bernardo: And is that what, and I probably should be asking Trustee Patrick this, is like, is that what you want to see happen here?

[1:49:25] Trustee Patrick: For me, I think it would be a good idea to see how Trust Council could be formally involved in the process.

[1:49:33] Trustee Patrick: us where do they fit how and

[1:49:36] Voice 11: that is the intention my personal intention and tim peterson on the

[1:49:45] Voice 11: committee

[1:49:46] Trustee Bernardo: may have something else too i'm trying to understand is there something here like we've

[1:49:50] Trustee Bernardo: had this wide-ranging discussion we've moved the management review up that's fine but the

[1:49:56] Trustee Bernardo: starting point for this was a discussion of this performance review aspect of it

[1:50:00] Trustee Bernardo: uh do we want to do something about like are we being asked to make a recommendation or not

[1:50:09] Trustee Bernardo: my

[1:50:11] Voice 7: understanding at this point is that it's unscheduled there may or may not be a consultant

[1:50:16] Voice 7: hired and that it's uh not having been sorted out by executive committee it's in the

[1:50:24] Trustee Luckham: very early days

[1:50:26] Trustee Luckham: is a process and you can be sure that you will be advised and in all likeliness you would be engaged

[1:50:33] Trustee Luckham: as a committee that is responsible for government so

[1:50:37] Voice 7: let's leave this for october or possibly august

[1:50:41] Voice 7: and get an update and then if there's something that we need and want to push um that we can

[1:50:48] Voice 7: we've got two members of the executive committee here so they can tell the others that i guess it's

[1:50:56] Voice 7: um that it's been brought up as part of a conversation and a uh one point in a broader

[1:51:02] Voice 7: review and that it's of interest fair enough fair

[1:51:07] Voice 11: enough jamie fair enough thanks

[1:51:10] Voice 3: jamie yes i guess

[1:51:12] Voice 3: fair enough i am just so just so i'm clear it's moved into the urgent and i priority um category

[1:51:20] Voice 3: and we will be discussing how trustees and trust council will be able to input into um

[1:51:28] Voice 3: what goes to the consultants is that what i'm understanding possibly

[1:51:33] Voice 7: as part of a larger

[1:51:34] Voice 7: conversation it's just moved up in terms of becoming a topic for us to try and sort out

[1:51:39] Voice 7: how we're going to deal with it it's very broad strokes at this point i think tim

[1:51:44] Voice 11: thank you chair

[1:51:48] Voice 11: uh so

[1:51:49] Voice 8: my thoughts are that if the committee if this committee wants to um give uh executive

[1:51:59] Voice 8: executive committee specific suggestion

[1:52:03] Voice 8: or ask for consideration of specific things,

[1:52:06] Voice 8: then it's perfectly reasonable for this committee

[1:52:08] Voice 8: to put together a resolution to do so in a formal way to EC.

[1:52:14] Voice 8: Of course, Chair Luckom and I are both here,

[1:52:18] Voice 8: but that doesn't mean we are able to exactly represent

[1:52:24] Voice 8: the views of this committee to EC.

[1:52:26] Voice 8: So I think that's not a bad thought.

[1:52:28] Voice 8: i would also suggest that perhaps uh after some further discussion that might be the best time

[1:52:33] Voice 8: to do it but we certainly don't have time to get into in a deep discussion on this today i don't

[1:52:39] Voice 8: believe but for consideration when we do uh meet again um i always think that it's helpful when

[1:52:48] Voice 8: a committee you know if this group has some specific suggestions or requests uh in terms of

[1:52:57] Voice 8: in terms of that process uh for EC then I think it's it's helpful for EC to get that um you know

[1:53:04] Voice 8: in the in the form of a resolution from this group so I just putting that out there I don't think

[1:53:09] Voice 8: today is we don't have time to do it today but let's definitely put that on our our list if we

[1:53:13] Voice 8: want to consider that in more depth right

[1:53:16] Voice 7: Peter your hand is still up nope okay all right so

[1:53:22] Voice 7: So there's, I'm going to close that discussion, and we'll do some background and do some agenda building. What's left is motion to adjourn. I'll move that. Second?

[1:53:39] Voice 7: Do you have a motion that you will be scheduling an August 31st meeting, please?

[1:53:43] Voice 7: oh sorry yes we've i believe we agreed to that um that we add a um oh boy where was that in the

[1:53:54] Voice 7: agenda right at the beginning um let

[1:53:56] Trustee Patrick: me help thank

[1:53:58] Voice 11: you let me help schedule a special electronic

[1:54:07] Voice 11: meeting to be held

[1:54:08] Voice 7: thursday august 31st beginning at 9 a.m um i'll move that seconder laura and all

[1:54:17] Voice 7: All in favor?

[1:54:19] Voice 7: Okay, that's unanimous.

[1:54:21] Voice 7: And now let's adjourn.

[1:54:25] Voice 7: Laura, you just seconded it.

[1:54:27] Voice 7: Thanks.

[1:54:28] Voice 7: All in favor?

[1:54:30] Voice 11: All right.

[1:54:31] Voice 11: Bye everyone.

[1:54:32] Voice 7: Thank you all.

[1:54:34] Voice 7: See you on the 31st.

[1:54:36] Trustee Luckham: Thanks everybody.

[1:54:37] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:54:37] Trustee Luckham: Good job, Chair Keddie.

[1:54:40] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much.

[1:54:41] Trustee Luckham: We

[1:54:41] Voice 7: got through it.

[1:54:45] Voice 7: Adios.

[1:54:47] Voice 11: Adios.