Gambier Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, November 21, 2023

[0:00:07] Voice 11: Are we streaming? Yep I believe so yep

[0:00:10] Voice 7: it looks like it's ready to go.

[0:00:13] Trustee Luckham: Okay so good morning

[0:00:14] Trustee Luckham: everybody. Welcome to the Gambria Island Local Trust Committee of November the 21st 2023.

[0:00:21] Trustee Luckham: My name is Peter Luckham. I'm elected on Thetis Island. I'm chair of the Gambria Island Local

[0:00:26] Trustee Luckham: Trust Committee and honored and pleased to be able to work here and of course recognizing that

[0:00:34] Trustee Luckham: we live and work in Coast Salish Territory of which there's a rich history. There's lots of

[0:00:42] Trustee Luckham: joy but there's also lots of sadness and it's important for us to recognize the history of

[0:00:49] Trustee Luckham: this place and the future ahead of us and the work that needs to be done as we move forward,

[0:00:54] Trustee Luckham: particularly in land use planning. I'm joined today by Trustee Joe Bernardo,

[0:01:02] Trustee Luckham: resident of Canberra Island, or sorry, Keats Island.

[0:01:05] Trustee Luckham: And Joe, do you want to say good morning?

[0:01:07] Trustee Bernardo: Good morning, everybody.

[0:01:09] Trustee Bernardo: The chair is correct.

[0:01:10] Trustee Bernardo: My name is Joe Bernardo.

[0:01:12] Trustee Bernardo: I'm from Keats Island, but of course,

[0:01:14] Trustee Bernardo: I'm a trustee for the whole Canberra local trust area.

[0:01:17] Trustee Luckham: Very good.

[0:01:18] Trustee Luckham: And we're joined by Kate-Louise Stamford,

[0:01:21] Trustee Luckham: who is a elected trustee on Canberra Island.

[0:01:25] Trustee Luckham: Good morning, Kate.

[0:01:26] Trustee Stamford: Hi, everyone.

[0:01:28] Trustee Stamford: My video is not working,

[0:01:30] Trustee Stamford: So I'm just going to not mess with it.

[0:01:33] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[0:01:35] Trustee Stamford: Okay, very good.

[0:01:36] Trustee Luckham: And we have a plan with Cargar with us today,

[0:01:40] Trustee Luckham: providing us support and we have Diane Corbett

[0:01:43] Trustee Luckham: doing our minutes and recording the meeting for us.

[0:01:47] Trustee Luckham: And also want to recognize Will Cottingham

[0:01:49] Trustee Luckham: in the background who's looking after our technology

[0:01:51] Trustee Luckham: and assisting me getting on board this morning.

[0:01:53] Trustee Luckham: Apologies for the late start.

[0:01:55] Trustee Luckham: all right um so we have uh a meeting agenda before us here today um and i'll just ask if there's any

[0:02:04] Trustee Luckham: additions or deletions to that agenda okay not seeing any you'll have to uh either rate i'm

[0:02:11] Trustee Luckham: assuming you can raise your hand even without your video there um kate um so yeah

[0:02:16] Voice 11: i will do that

[0:02:17] Trustee Luckham: so then let's adopt the agenda as presented by uh general consent and um the first item on our

[0:02:24] Trustee Luckham: agenda today um is the island the trust reports so uh uh who would like to go first i'll go first

[0:02:31] Trustee Bernardo: because i have virtually nothing to say i don't have anything particularly interesting to to update

[0:02:36] Trustee Bernardo: uh the committee on um you know it's pretty obvious my main focus is dealing with um the

[0:02:43] Trustee Bernardo: key shoreline project uh of course which is gonna be the main focus for today uh so uh you know

[0:02:50] Trustee Bernardo: nothing really to report other than to say that the project is really important and we need to

[0:02:55] Trustee Bernardo: get through it that's it and

[0:03:00] Trustee Luckham: indeed uh thank you for that uh um note uh trustee bernardo indeed

[0:03:05] Trustee Luckham: this is important work so trustee uh stanford over to you

[0:03:09] Trustee Stamford: um i also don't have a lot to update

[0:03:12] Trustee Stamford: or anything to update for islands trust um a lot of what i'm doing in regards to the islands

[0:03:19] Trustee Stamford: is better described under the regional

[0:03:22] Voice 11: district director's report so I'll wait till then

[0:03:25] Voice 11: you're on mute chair Luka yeah

[0:03:40] Trustee Luckham: so from my area nothing to report particular with Gambria or

[0:03:45] Trustee Luckham: Keats just to let everybody know that on executive committee we are and of course on financial planning

[0:03:52] Trustee Luckham: committee which Joe Bernardo is the the chair and our other committees we are working towards

[0:03:57] Trustee Luckham: towards preparations for our Trust Council in December.

[0:04:00] Trustee Luckham: And other than that, business as usual,

[0:04:04] Trustee Luckham: so to speak, at the Allens Trust.

[0:04:06] Trustee Luckham: So that's it for me.

[0:04:07] Trustee Luckham: And I'll go back to Kate-Louise Stamford

[0:04:09] Trustee Luckham: with her Electoral Area Director's hat on.

[0:04:12] Trustee Luckham: Over to you, Kate.

[0:04:13] Trustee Stamford: Thank you, Chair Luckom.

[0:04:15] Trustee Stamford: I'll just start with the Regional District Board

[0:04:19] Trustee Stamford: did agree to continue further planning work

[0:04:22] Trustee Stamford: with the Eastbourne water system.

[0:04:25] Trustee Stamford: um i i keep bringing this up only because it is it's not the perfect system and i think there's

[0:04:33] Trustee Stamford: a lot of questions from the community there's also uh questions from the board as to um

[0:04:40] Trustee Stamford: how this works in the specifics the the big picture is clear but it's specifically um

[0:04:47] Trustee Stamford: that it doesn't have it's not a easy path forward let's put it this way and i'm happy

[0:04:54] Trustee Stamford: to answer further questions about that um the to update people on keats the keats landing

[0:05:02] Trustee Stamford: pier the surface it has been closed to vehicular traffic due to damage on one of the struts

[0:05:09] Trustee Stamford: underneath there is no timeline for that to be repaired at this point but i have

[0:05:15] Trustee Stamford: conveyed the importance of being able to access this particular dock for um vehicular traffic

[0:05:24] Trustee Stamford: especially as we come close to spring so um i'll be keeping on that and as soon as i hear anything

[0:05:30] Trustee Stamford: i will let the islanders know um yesterday i attended a water symposium with um the

[0:05:39] Trustee Stamford: community of seashell the community of gibson's uh the nation of the shelt the nation as well

[0:05:47] Trustee Stamford: as the regional district um this is our fourth symposium that we've been dealing with everything

[0:05:53] Trustee Stamford: to do with water. We've gone through the status of what is, what could have been, what was,

[0:06:00] Trustee Stamford: and now we're at the point of planning for the future. We've got some incredibly complex

[0:06:05] Trustee Stamford: projects and how they fit together with the visions of the communities, as well as the

[0:06:12] Trustee Stamford: regional districts, but most importantly, how that fits into the vision of the SWIA for the

[0:06:20] Trustee Stamford: Sechelt Nation. We also

[0:06:22] Trustee Stamford: had the pleasure of Squamish Nation staff attending as part of the

[0:06:28] Trustee Stamford: review of water as a whole across the Sunshine Coast. And again, we do always consider the water

[0:06:35] Trustee Stamford: system with Eastbourne as part of our regional system. And then

[0:06:39] Trustee Stamford: finally, just like the Islands

[0:06:42] Trustee Stamford: trust um we're less we're heading into budget season um we've reviewed our utility um potential

[0:06:51] Trustee Stamford: utility bills for the upcoming year to do with water and septic again those the costs of

[0:06:57] Trustee Stamford: infrastructure are profound um and unlike the islands trust the regional districts have a

[0:07:05] Trustee Stamford: January to December budget year rather than March to April or April to March budget year. So that

[0:07:15] Trustee Stamford: changes the timeline somewhat, but we do it on roughly the same timeline, just a little faster.

[0:07:21] Trustee Stamford: So we'll be ready by February for our 2024 budget. Thank you. Any questions that I can

[0:07:30] Trustee Stamford: to ask arising from that any questions you can answer okay yes

[0:07:36] Trustee Bernardo: i have a question uh more than

[0:07:38] Trustee Bernardo: perhaps a number of questions it really you know won't be any surprise it's about the eastbourne

[0:07:42] Trustee Bernardo: water situation over there um understandably you're talking in general terms because you've

[0:07:47] Trustee Bernardo: got other things to report on but i'm just wondering if you could briefly elaborate on

[0:07:51] Trustee Bernardo: the nature of the challenge over there at eastbourne uh specifically in the sense that

[0:07:56] Trustee Bernardo: that it sounds like making sure that the community at Eastbourne gets reliable access to water

[0:08:06] Trustee Bernardo: and the volumes that they require, it's not obvious how it's going to happen.

[0:08:10] Trustee Bernardo: That's my impression.

[0:08:11] Trustee Bernardo: And is the issue here that the test wells aren't as promising as we'd hoped they would be?

[0:08:19] Trustee Stamford: It's certainly part of it, Trustee Bonanno.

[0:08:22] Trustee Stamford: The big picture is because Eastbourne is part of the regional system that it's been on that

[0:08:32] Trustee Stamford: regional structure since for the last 23 years or more, there is a policy that they have

[0:08:40] Trustee Stamford: to have a certain standard of water and pressure.

[0:08:43] Trustee Stamford: And they haven't had that.

[0:08:46] Trustee Stamford: They've been paying into a system and they haven't had the same level of service that

[0:08:50] Trustee Stamford: other people in that particular function have. In addition to that, their water needs, although

[0:08:58] Trustee Stamford: quite minimal compared to everyone else, continue to be challenging in the summers and potentially

[0:09:06] Trustee Stamford: are getting more challenging as the one deep well that they're still relying on is now taking

[0:09:14] Trustee Stamford: longer and longer charge. So there's a possibility that water source is not going to be reliable and

[0:09:20] Trustee Stamford: five years and and coming back to the water symposium part of the difficulty the sunshine

[0:09:24] Trustee Stamford: coast is having is is we haven't looked farther enough into the future understanding the dramatic

[0:09:31] Trustee Stamford: changes that climate change has imposed on this this particular part of bc and so rather than

[0:09:39] Trustee Stamford: waiting for the the emergency to appear on eastbourne we're anticipating five years down

[0:09:47] Trustee Stamford: the line and that those needs need to be augmented based on that longer term planning uh unfortunately

[0:09:54] Trustee Stamford: that the wells that have been drilled um have production but not to the level that we'd hoped

[0:10:01] Trustee Stamford: and certainly not to the quality so there's extra requirements for processing for that water

[0:10:07] Trustee Stamford: Even so, Eastbourne does require security of water, and there are specialized funds through ICT that have been put aside that could be used for this.

[0:10:21] Trustee Stamford: So we want to also take that opportunity to use those funds.

[0:10:27] Trustee Stamford: But in the long term, there may be questions as to should Eastbourne be within this regional system?

[0:10:33] Trustee Stamford: Is there some other kind of accommodation that could be made?

[0:10:36] Trustee Stamford: that's sort of some of the the more complex um things that we're working with with that system

[0:10:44] Trustee Stamford: well

[0:10:45] Trustee Bernardo: i've got one follow-up question which is

[0:10:47] Trustee Bernardo: uh relates to the to the more technical aspect and

[0:10:50] Trustee Bernardo: you may or may not be able to answer it but i'll ask anyhow um it relates to the recharging issue

[0:10:56] Trustee Bernardo: which is we're all familiar with the fact that the weather patterns have changed somewhat in

[0:11:00] Trustee Bernardo: the summers where we've got longer stretches of drier weather there's less rain seems to be less

[0:11:06] Trustee Bernardo: rain at least at certain points in the summer than there used to be but in the winter uh certainly

[0:11:13] Trustee Bernardo: the raining the rainfall hasn't particularly abated i mean both gambier and cates are

[0:11:19] Trustee Bernardo: rainforests basically um and so that creates a bit of a puzzle about this recharging challenge

[0:11:25] Trustee Bernardo: and the reason i want to drill into it a bit is that if cates and gambier which are basically

[0:11:31] Trustee Bernardo: you know rainforest islands are having trouble recharging their aquifers um i'm wondering if

[0:11:38] Trustee Bernardo: there's any learning there for the rest of the islands trust because there's plenty of islands

[0:11:42] Trustee Bernardo: that are significantly drier historically than uh either cates or gambier um and i'm just wondering

[0:11:49] Trustee Bernardo: if there's any transferable learning here about this recharging problem do we have any idea about

[0:11:56] Trustee Bernardo: why notwithstanding the heavy rains in the winter the aquifer is not recharging

[0:12:00] Trustee Bernardo: I

[0:12:01] Trustee Stamford: think there could be many reasons. And I think it's, I'm hoping that water specialist Willem Schulbo will be able to enlighten us on many of the details of those questions. But I think it's important to note that this isn't a general trend for Gambier case. This is, this seems to be, as far as I can see, is this particular aquifer.

[0:12:27] Trustee Stamford: for instance the um the water recharge on the other side of keats seems fine so it's specific

[0:12:34] Trustee Stamford: to different um parts of the island and it's certainly we're not experiencing the same thing

[0:12:40] Trustee Stamford: on gambier and and so the islands are quite different in their makeup and we should be

[0:12:45] Trustee Stamford: able to get more detail about that from william um specialist william will be is in touch and

[0:12:52] Trustee Stamford: and is working with the regional district

[0:12:54] Trustee Stamford: on this specific concern.

[0:12:57] Trustee Stamford: So it's more specific to Eastbourne,

[0:13:00] Trustee Bernardo: but both islands.

[0:13:01] Trustee Bernardo: That's helpful to know.

[0:13:02] Trustee Bernardo: And I guess we just have to wait the results

[0:13:05] Trustee Bernardo: of further investigation.

[0:13:06] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[0:13:07] Voice 11: Yeah, thank you.

[0:13:12] Voice 11: Mute.

[0:13:16] Voice 11: You're muted.

[0:13:18] Voice 11: Unmute.

[0:13:19] Voice 11: So is that it

[0:13:20] Trustee Luckham: for reporting then at this time?

[0:13:22] Trustee Luckham: No more questions?

[0:13:24] Trustee Luckham: Yes,

[0:13:25] Voice 3: thank you, Chair.

[0:13:26] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so thank you very much.

[0:13:27] Trustee Luckham: so we'll move on to the agenda here. We don't have any delegations today but I do note that there's

[0:13:32] Trustee Luckham: two people that are attending that perhaps want to address the LTC during the public comment period

[0:13:40] Trustee Luckham: here now. So I'll just ask those individuals that are online, I see Camila Berry and Dan Rogers,

[0:13:46] Trustee Luckham: if you have anything to address the Local Trust Committee about please raise your hand and I see

[0:13:52] Trustee Luckham: dan rogers has raised his hand so can we um elevate him to uh participant are

[0:14:06] Voice 11: you there dan

[0:14:10] Voice 11: you're on mute dan oh good thing i hadn't started talking good

[0:14:20] Trustee Luckham: morning dan nice to see you

[0:14:24] Voice 8: uh very nice to see you chair luckman uh trustee bernardo i can't see trustee samford uh nice to

[0:14:30] Voice 8: see you planning proper um and uh thank you for joining i'm i'm i'm pleased to be joining you from

[0:14:38] Voice 8: from Keats, from Lek Tynes in the traditional territory

[0:14:43] Voice 8: of the Squamish Nation, which I'll come back to.

[0:14:45] Voice 8: And I won't take much of your time

[0:14:46] Voice 8: because this is public comment and not a public hearing.

[0:14:49] Voice 8: I know you have a busy agenda ahead of you,

[0:14:51] Voice 8: especially this afternoon when you're talking to,

[0:14:56] Voice 8: talking about the Keats shoreline project.

[0:14:59] Voice 8: I'm hoping you got my note from yesterday afternoon

[0:15:03] Voice 8: where in which I made a number of comments

[0:15:05] Voice 8: and I'll leave you to discuss those things

[0:15:08] Voice 8: as you get into the into the agenda um a few things and if i might um uh if i might i'm sorry

[0:15:16] Voice 8: i know it's not strictly island's trust business and thank you trustee bernardo for asking all the

[0:15:21] Voice 8: questions regarding the eastbourne water system uh can i just make a suggestion to trustees to

[0:15:26] Voice 8: trustee slash director stamford uh that it's time for a public update to eastbourne i get asked

[0:15:33] Voice 8: ask questions all the time about our water system um I guess because they don't know I'm not an

[0:15:38] Voice 8: elected official anymore uh but um uh perhaps because I have good contacts but the uh and it

[0:15:44] Voice 8: would be great to have an update because I think people are just are not aware uh of what's going

[0:15:49] Voice 8: on uh with the water system here um

[0:15:52] Voice 3: in

[0:15:53] Voice 8: in uh in in there's been I haven't seen any communication

[0:15:57] Voice 8: communication for quite a while so either a a a flyer or even a even a public update or even the

[0:16:04] Voice 8: creation we used to have a water committee in Eastbourne that would consult with the SCRD about

[0:16:08] Voice 8: the issues and it might be worthwhile to consider something like that and we appreciate the efforts

[0:16:13] Voice 8: and I understand the cost is extreme in terms of getting our water system in place I you saw

[0:16:19] Voice 8: my comments I hope about the um uh about the connected coast and I know you're going to talk

[0:16:25] Voice 8: about it later uh this is an important project and we did lobby in the last trust lcc term to ensure

[0:16:32] Voice 8: that keats was not bypassed by this project i think it's an important project and uh hopefully

[0:16:38] Voice 8: uh you'll find a way to work with them to get there to meet whatever deadline they seem to have

[0:16:43] Voice 8: regarding the issue i i raised the issue in my note that we already have a cable coming on a

[0:16:50] Voice 8: high speed internet cable coming onto keats it's just a thermal off ramp i don't know how it got

[0:16:54] Voice 8: got on if there was if the zoning's not appropriate but I I'll let you guys figure that out um I uh

[0:17:01] Voice 8: wanted to just also uh talk for a minute about uh the Keith Shoreline project um uh you know

[0:17:10] Voice 8: I'm I'm quite aware of the fact that the pendulum swing and as different uh considerations come on

[0:17:16] Voice 8: I'm not going to react to some of the comments regarding the last LTC uh however I do want to

[0:17:23] Voice 8: and i address some of the issues i want to address four things very briefly the first is please

[0:17:30] Voice 8: it's it's really important uh that that you consider not only the the the uh the comments

[0:17:37] Voice 8: and the and the uh the issues of the community and the people the fort waterfront uh uh property

[0:17:44] Voice 8: owners the foreshore property owners uh the involvement of the squamish nation is incredibly

[0:17:49] Voice 8: incredibly important we had we did have some consultation with them uh last term and they did

[0:17:54] Voice 8: raise some very very legitimate and serious concerns related to uh some of the development

[0:18:00] Voice 8: on the foreshore in Keats and it's not and it's not enough to simply say to them uh well it's

[0:18:05] Voice 8: always been that way so it's going to stay that way uh so you're I think you're going to find

[0:18:10] Voice 8: that you you need to work through some of those issues with them and I I look forward to hearing

[0:18:14] Voice 8: hearing that you're doing that if I could just address briefly three things in the in the draft

[0:18:20] Voice 8: bylaws it's sometimes hard to follow and I understand completely the the different color

[0:18:25] Voice 8: coding Etc but it's sometimes hard it gets a little confusing watching all the different

[0:18:30] Voice 8: colors on the on the draft bylaw I'll just I'll just three things briefly one is I would suggest

[0:18:38] Voice 8: I would suggest to you that the exemption in Section 2A is too broad now, it's written too broadly, because it could lead to the, it opens the door to complete reconstruction of a building without a development permit the way it's worded.

[0:18:54] Voice 8: And I don't know if that's the intent but that's the way I would read it and I'd be concerned that that would be the interpretation by many people, and it would allow for the, and that's not the intention of the development permit area.

[0:19:05] Voice 8: area and to that extent I I commend the the planners uh commentary related to that

[0:19:12] Voice 8: um in terms of the guidelines just to address two of them briefly uh guideline 3B uh it's proposed

[0:19:20] Voice 8: to take out the guideline that that develops shoreline development should not restrict access

[0:19:24] Voice 8: to the foreshore I think that should remain in my opinion is because it's not just it's not

[0:19:29] Voice 8: not contemplating necessarily access to the foreshore from private property but actually

[0:19:38] Voice 8: along the foreshore and that should always be a consideration that accessing the foreshore from

[0:19:43] Voice 8: from along the foreshore or from the station should be always be a principle that should

[0:19:48] Voice 8: be maintained and the last one I wanted to address briefly and not to take up too much of your time

[0:19:53] Voice 8: is uh i have no idea why under the the uh i can't figure out why under uh the dock guidelines uh

[0:20:02] Voice 8: guideline h about about ramps etc um not exceeding 1.5 meters has been taken out uh perhaps it's

[0:20:11] Voice 8: somewhere else that i can't pick out uh to me that's an important uh in my opinion that's an

[0:20:17] Voice 8: important consideration because um it would be far too easy to for for what our acts what is intended

[0:20:25] Voice 8: to be access to either docs or to uh the foreshore to become a series of of um decks that have sort

[0:20:35] Voice 8: of different purpose and and become much bigger we've seen that happen um with and i so i if

[0:20:41] Voice 8: there's a reason for that's taken out i'd like to hear it at some point when you're in your

[0:20:44] Voice 8: discussions but i would i would uh urge you to leave it in with that i will leave you to do

[0:20:50] Voice 8: your deliberations and thank

[0:20:52] Voice 11: you for your service and your work can't hear you peter yeah

[0:21:02] Trustee Luckham: um you'd think i'd figure out the mute button all these years anyway uh thank you dan for joining us

[0:21:08] Trustee Luckham: today and your very thoughtful input to the work that we're doing appreciate that um uh are there

[0:21:15] Trustee Luckham: Are there any remarks, Trustee Bernardo?

[0:21:16] Trustee Luckham: I see your hand up

[0:21:17] Voice 11: and Trustee Stamford.

[0:21:21] Voice 11: Trustee Stamford had her hand up first.

[0:21:23] Voice 11: Just really quick,

[0:21:25] Trustee Stamford: the point about getting more information

[0:21:27] Trustee Stamford: out to Eastbourne about their water, certainly well taken.

[0:21:30] Trustee Stamford: I'm trying to work on something with staff

[0:21:33] Trustee Stamford: and get the answers that they need.

[0:21:35] Trustee Stamford: And hopefully we'll be able to have a more public engagement

[0:21:40] Trustee Stamford: as the project

[0:21:41] Voice 11: continues, thank you.

[0:21:46] Voice 11: All right, just to briefly,

[0:21:53] Trustee Bernardo: address some of the concerns expressed by mr rogers

[0:21:55] Trustee Bernardo: the access to the foreshore yes that is an important principle but the reason that

[0:22:02] Trustee Bernardo: phrase was taken out is that it's redundant and it was obscure because it it was open-ended it

[0:22:09] Trustee Bernardo: didn't um it was it wasn't specific as to uh it being a foreshore access along the foreshore

[0:22:18] Trustee Bernardo: it's obviously unreasonable to have a requirement that to allow people to or to have a requirement

[0:22:23] Trustee Bernardo: that property owners you know should be obligated to let the public march to their property to get

[0:22:29] Trustee Bernardo: to the foreshore and that's not intended but that's what the language of the deleted like the

[0:22:33] Trustee Bernardo: phrase um um permitted in any event it was unnecessary because the guidelines

[0:22:40] Trustee Bernardo: actually address this access along the foreshore aspect

[0:22:42] Trustee Bernardo: but specifically the dock guidelines which say that no dock construction should um uh create

[0:22:50] Trustee Bernardo: that kind of barrier access along the foreshore needs to be maintained so that's covered there

[0:22:57] Trustee Bernardo: the 1.5 meter guideline was taken out because it's actually covered by the regulations

[0:23:01] Trustee Bernardo: for each zone um so each zone that in which docks are permitted has a requirement that the

[0:23:09] Trustee Bernardo: the access ramps and that sort of thing.

[0:23:13] Trustee Bernardo: That's a new thing that's being introduced

[0:23:15] Trustee Bernardo: as an actual regulation on a guideline

[0:23:17] Trustee Bernardo: that is supposed to be 1.5 meters.

[0:23:19] Trustee Bernardo: So that's already covered.

[0:23:21] Trustee Bernardo: So those two concerns are addressed.

[0:23:23] Trustee Bernardo: The other things, well, we're gonna have to discuss those

[0:23:26] Trustee Bernardo: at the meeting.

[0:23:27] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:23:36] Voice 11: So thank you, Trustee Bernardo and Kate

[0:23:38] Voice 11: for your

[0:23:39] Trustee Luckham: answers there.

[0:23:41] Trustee Luckham: We'll move on through the attendees here.

[0:23:45] Trustee Luckham: I see Camilla Berry is listening.

[0:23:49] Trustee Luckham: If you wish to address the LTC, if you raise your hand, we could promote you to a speaker.

[0:23:54] Trustee Luckham: Otherwise, we'll continue, and I thank you for joining us.

[0:23:59] Trustee Luckham: So not seeing a hand come up, I'm going to continue on.

[0:24:04] Trustee Luckham: So thank you very much, everybody, for joining us today.

[0:24:07] Trustee Luckham: So this brings us to the minutes of the previous meeting, October the 17th.

[0:24:12] Trustee Luckham: Are there any changes to those minutes?

[0:24:14] Trustee Luckham: that's uh yes go ahead uh trustee stanford yeah

[0:24:20] Trustee Stamford: i'm just getting there um a couple of things that

[0:24:24] Trustee Stamford: i i understand diane is records the information so i i'm probably saying i probably said this

[0:24:35] Trustee Stamford: stuff but i i think it's better it doesn't come keep moving forward so on page four of the package

[0:24:41] Trustee Stamford: package uh the second bullet uh on the page is new brighton dock ramp is being fixed and now

[0:24:47] Trustee Stamford: working well kudos to mosquito creek marine group um kudos to mosquito creek marine group is is not

[0:24:56] Trustee Stamford: the language i would prefer to see in our in our minutes um and it it's somewhat problematic as we

[0:25:04] Trustee Stamford: we move forward with dock ownership

[0:25:08] Trustee Stamford: and where the dock is at right now.

[0:25:10] Trustee Stamford: So if it's, although I am sure

[0:25:14] Trustee Stamford: I probably said something like that.

[0:25:17] Trustee Stamford: So if it's okay with the committee,

[0:25:20] Trustee Stamford: I'd like to delete the last sentence,

[0:25:22] Voice 11: kudos to Mosquito Creek Marine Group.

[0:25:27] Voice 11: Is that?

[0:25:30] Voice 11: I'm sorry, can I

[0:25:31] Trustee Bernardo: have the page reference

[0:25:31] Trustee Bernardo: to that again, please?

[0:25:32] Voice 11: Yeah.

[0:25:34] Trustee Stamford: It's page four of the package at the top.

[0:25:37] Trustee Stamford: just above

[0:25:39] Voice 11: 3.2 chair's report right

[0:25:45] Trustee Bernardo: i i understand the trustee sanford's point which is that the

[0:25:49] Trustee Bernardo: minute should be summary and formally report on the business really and passing courtesies and

[0:25:57] Trustee Bernardo: that kind of stuff really um yeah it shouldn't really be elevated to being part of the official

[0:26:03] Trustee Bernardo: record but it's not a transcript so i i agree i agree with trustee stanford's point

[0:26:11] Trustee Stamford: it's not so much i you know ordinarily would like to thank people but i would do it more

[0:26:16] Trustee Stamford: officially or like more um formally and um there's just some other things happening

[0:26:23] Trustee Stamford: with the doc right now so um just keeping it simple okay

[0:26:28] Trustee Luckham: so thank you so diane you uh

[0:26:31] Voice 11: copied that removing the last sentence yes i did thank you thanks diane and then

[0:26:42] Trustee Stamford: on the same page

[0:26:42] Trustee Stamford: 3.3 on the first bullet water restrictions

[0:26:47] Trustee Stamford: recently went to stage one from stage four in four days.

[0:26:52] Trustee Stamford: It should be the other way around.

[0:26:53] Trustee Stamford: It went from stage four to stage one in four days

[0:26:57] Trustee Stamford: because we got a lot of

[0:26:59] Trustee Stamford: rain during that point.

[0:27:00] Trustee Stamford: Okay,

[0:27:01] Voice 11: that's a good technical correction.

[0:27:04] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:27:10] Voice 11: Yes, and I've got a question here.

[0:27:12] Voice 11: Go ahead.

[0:27:13] Voice 11: sure uh

[0:27:14] Trustee Bernardo: no comments really about um the october 30 or sorry the october 17 um minutes but i'm

[0:27:23] Trustee Bernardo: just wondering um why we don't have the minutes for the october 31st special meeting uh resolutions

[0:27:31] Trustee Bernardo: were passed there to amend the bylaw to make changes to the doc requirements and to correct

[0:27:36] Trustee Bernardo: a typo in the lub um shouldn't we have those minutes for review approval or is that something

[0:27:41] Trustee Bernardo: that will happen later uh

[0:27:43] Planner McCargar: through the chair they're not ready yet they weren't ready by the

[0:27:46] Planner McCargar: time this agenda package was prepared all right that's fair enough thank you okay

[0:27:52] Trustee Luckham: thank you so

[0:27:52] Trustee Luckham: back to the october 17th uh meeting minutes then uh there no further changes so then i'll take it

[0:28:00] Trustee Luckham: then the minutes be adopted as amended by general consent and thanks for that question on the

[0:28:06] Trustee Luckham: the more recent meeting minutes.

[0:28:09] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:28:10] Trustee Luckham: So trust section 26 resolution without meeting report

[0:28:13] Trustee Luckham: dated November the 10th.

[0:28:16] Trustee Luckham: That's just there for our information

[0:28:18] Trustee Luckham: and we'll just receive that.

[0:28:20] Trustee Luckham: Advisory planning commission minutes,

[0:28:22] Trustee Luckham: there are none here today.

[0:28:24] Trustee Luckham: And so this brings us to the follow-up action list

[0:28:28] Trustee Luckham: of November the 15th, dated November the 15th.

[0:28:32] Trustee Luckham: And assuming there's no further updates to that,

[0:28:37] Trustee Luckham: Planner McCarver, I'll just go to trustees for questions

[0:28:40] Trustee Luckham: if they have any

[0:28:42] Trustee Stamford: questions, trustees.

[0:28:44] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, sorry, my little hand is not easy to see.

[0:28:49] Trustee Stamford: Here, I got an update.

[0:28:52] Trustee Stamford: So regarding, we're at the follow-up action list.

[0:28:57] Trustee Stamford: I just wanted to confirm that I did respond

[0:29:01] Trustee Stamford: respond to the regional district's uh regional growth framework we passed a motion at our last

[0:29:07] Trustee Stamford: meeting um to um make a request that they clarify the role of the island's trust in their regional

[0:29:16] Trustee Stamford: growth um uh framework so i have made that i have uh i i sent them the motion as well as for

[0:29:24] Trustee Stamford: suggested wording um and i followed up a couple of days ago to find out where it's at i haven't

[0:29:30] Trustee Stamford: heard back yet

[0:29:30] Voice 11: but i will keep following up on that okay um so no further questions on the

[0:29:42] Trustee Luckham: follow-up action list then it's time so let's continue

[0:29:45] Trustee Luckham: on uh correspondence uh normally

[0:29:49] Trustee Luckham: correspondences that are attached to projects or applications end up on the web page um but we do

[0:29:54] Trustee Luckham: have a a single piece of correspondence here from uh i think it's christine owen

[0:30:00] Trustee Luckham: regarding a letter of support

[0:30:01] Trustee Luckham: for the Connected Coast project.

[0:30:03] Trustee Luckham: And I'll just turn to Planner McCargar.

[0:30:05] Trustee Luckham: There's been a bit of back and forth there

[0:30:07] Trustee Luckham: with respect to seeking that endorsement.

[0:30:10] Trustee Luckham: I presume that LTC would like to provide

[0:30:14] Trustee Luckham: that letter of support.

[0:30:16] Trustee Luckham: Do you have recommendations at this time, Planner McCargar?

[0:30:22] Planner McCargar: No, I don't have any specific recommendation.

[0:30:25] Planner McCargar: That was a letter that was drafted

[0:30:27] Planner McCargar: by the folks at Connected Coast.

[0:30:30] Planner McCargar: and they're just seeking endorsement from the LTC

[0:30:35] Planner McCargar: to send to the province as they move forward

[0:30:38] Planner McCargar: in this process.

[0:30:40] Trustee Luckham: So I'll just turn to the trustees to ask you one

[0:30:46] Trustee Luckham: that you indeed want to provide a support

[0:30:48] Trustee Luckham: to the connected coast for this project.

[0:30:51] Trustee Luckham: And I'd like to see a motion to that effect

[0:30:54] Trustee Luckham: and I'll turn it over to you.

[0:30:57] Trustee Luckham: Who would like to take a lead on that?

[0:30:59] Trustee Luckham: uh

[0:31:01] Trustee Bernardo: first of all i i um if i may uh share ask a plan mccarver question which is the letter from

[0:31:09] Trustee Bernardo: the connected coast people make reference to um a january 2024 deadline of some sort but it's not

[0:31:17] Trustee Bernardo: clear from the letter whether that's the timeline by which they wish to have the letter of support

[0:31:26] Trustee Bernardo: or by which the zoning issue that was discussed um at the october 17th meeting

[0:31:33] Trustee Bernardo: needs to be addressed the letter goes into both areas but it's not clear to me what the january

[0:31:39] Trustee Bernardo: 2024 deadline is is all about can you clarify that point where

[0:31:45] Planner McCargar: did you see the that that language

[0:31:47] Planner McCargar: i've read the letter and i don't see it in there so

[0:31:50] Trustee Bernardo: i'm not clear the letter and um it says at the

[0:31:56] Trustee Bernardo: the last paragraph a lack of support or a timeline beyond January 2024 for the zoning change will be

[0:32:04] Trustee Bernardo: a result will result in a significant delay to the program etc etc so I don't understand what

[0:32:12] Trustee Bernardo: the reference to a timeline beyond 2024 is that's why I'm asking a question I'm

[0:32:17] Planner McCargar: I'm wondering if

[0:32:18] Planner McCargar: we're looking at a different letter can I share the one that I have on that I sent out that I

[0:32:24] Planner McCargar: have on my screen and well

[0:32:26] Trustee Bernardo: i i'm referring to the letter that we received from uh christina owen

[0:32:32] Trustee Bernardo: not the not not a draft letter that you prepared which um isn't in the package but that was

[0:32:38] Trustee Bernardo: circulated amongst

[0:32:39] Planner McCargar: oh okay okay sorry i didn't wasn't clear on that

[0:32:42] Trustee Luckham: yeah so i think they just

[0:32:43] Trustee Luckham: have a fun a funding application that they need to get in uh in january and um and so they just

[0:32:54] Trustee Luckham: need to get and you know I think that the more interesting question there is that prior to the

[0:32:59] Trustee Luckham: rezoning being put into place to facilitate that the actual work whether or not by providing a

[0:33:06] Trustee Luckham: letter of endorsement fetish the discretion of the LTC however I think obviously the community

[0:33:12] Trustee Luckham: is interested in this and we would still be viewing the application in the context of the

[0:33:18] Trustee Luckham: work that they propose to do and what they're asking for and that I don't believe it would

[0:33:22] Trustee Luckham: federal discretion there but it's simply that i think that they need to get their application in

[0:33:27] Trustee Luckham: and to support that project and a letter of endorsement from the local government is one

[0:33:32] Trustee Luckham: of the requirements well

[0:33:34] Trustee Bernardo: that well chair that was not the question the question is you know you're

[0:33:41] Trustee Bernardo: you're inferring a meaning from what that paragraph means i i reading the language myself

[0:33:47] Trustee Bernardo: self i can't make the same inference it's the language is obscure uh and i don't want to guess

[0:33:52] Trustee Bernardo: i want to know which is why i asked to be blunt planet mccarter and not you the question

[0:33:58] Trustee Bernardo: planet mccarter could you are you in a position to to explain what the connected coast people

[0:34:03] Trustee Bernardo: mean by that reference no

[0:34:05] Planner McCargar: we would have to go back to uh christina owen who wrote the letter

[0:34:10] Trustee Bernardo: well it's a material point because if the letter is first of all let's deal with the letter of

[0:34:16] Trustee Bernardo: support issue uh i certainly don't have a problem with that and i am prepared to make a motion uh

[0:34:23] Trustee Bernardo: asking staff to prepare that letter of support um and which i think would um probably given the

[0:34:32] Trustee Bernardo: nature of it before it is given to the chair for signature and sending out should be reviewed by

[0:34:37] Trustee Bernardo: the ltc as a whole and approved but um and i appreciate you've got the draft already in place

[0:34:43] Trustee Bernardo: but we might have to do that by either on the fly today or um by we have a resolution without

[0:34:51] Trustee Bernardo: a meeting i don't know but i'm certainly on the letter of support thing i think that's

[0:34:56] Trustee Bernardo: straightforward we can do that today and get that in train and that takes care of that if that's a

[0:35:02] Trustee Bernardo: january 2024 issue if if the timeline issue relates to making it possible for connected coast by that

[0:35:14] Trustee Bernardo: that deadline to have the zoning in place.

[0:35:16] Trustee Bernardo: So they've got a clear path to laying that cable.

[0:35:21] Trustee Bernardo: That's a bit more, it's actually not that hard

[0:35:23] Trustee Bernardo: but it's a bit more complicated.

[0:35:27] Trustee Bernardo: So I think we've got a bit of a bit of a challenge here.

[0:35:31] Trustee Bernardo: I certainly would like if it's possible

[0:35:32] Trustee Bernardo: Planet Macargo to get clarification from Connected Coast

[0:35:36] Trustee Bernardo: just exactly what they mean by that deadline.

[0:35:39] Trustee Bernardo: But that shouldn't stop us from dealing

[0:35:41] Trustee Bernardo: with the substance of the issue.

[0:35:42] Trustee Bernardo: and and and i believe it's worth discussing today given the nature of that letter um one of the

[0:35:51] Trustee Bernardo: suggestions that's in the letter which is instead of awaiting the whole zoning application process

[0:35:57] Trustee Bernardo: which at the last meeting you pointed out given the formalities and the staff workload and all

[0:36:03] Trustee Bernardo: the rest of it typically a zoning rezoning application is going to take something like

[0:36:07] Trustee Bernardo: six to 12 months that's not that's not a timeline irrespective of the january 2024 timeline

[0:36:15] Trustee Bernardo: but that's not going to be helpful for the project to get underway uh and they're suggesting that we

[0:36:21] Trustee Bernardo: simply as i understand the letter they're suggesting that we simply amend um the zoning

[0:36:27] Trustee Bernardo: requirements for the mg zone the marine general zone not a bad suggestion i think it's useful but

[0:36:34] Trustee Bernardo: But so I would like us to discuss that in the context of this letter.

[0:36:39] Trustee Bernardo: But before that, as the chair asked before, I'm prepared to move and I move that staff repair of letter support for Connected Coast along the lines requested by Connected Coast in their letter of October 23.

[0:36:59] Voice 11: I second.

[0:37:00] Voice 11: Second. And I have some questions about whether or not that letter even needs to go to an RWM afterwards.

[0:37:13] Voice 11: I'll just pipe in and say, I don't, I

[0:37:17] Trustee Bernardo: mean, we have a draft that's already been prepared.

[0:37:21] Trustee Bernardo: And perhaps Planner McHarty could just, as part of this discussion, throw that letter up on the screen.

[0:37:30] Trustee Bernardo: And then that can be the discussion that relates to this motion.

[0:37:37] Voice 11: So is that possible in this moment in time to get that up on the screen?

[0:37:46] Voice 11: Perfect. Thank you. Okay. So do you want to have a moment

[0:37:54] Trustee Luckham: to look at that

[0:37:55] Trustee Luckham: and make a determination or provide some edits?

[0:38:02] Trustee Stamford: I'll just jump in here. I

[0:38:03] Voice 11: read it before.

[0:38:04] Voice 11: It generally is fine. It says what it needs to say for them.

[0:38:11] Voice 11: Okay. Trustee Bernardo?

[0:38:13] Trustee Bernardo: I'm also fine with it. And in fact,

[0:38:16] Trustee Bernardo: um maybe i should have waited for the motion and so i could have phrased it so that

[0:38:24] Trustee Bernardo: that um the ltc approved this letter for mailing out for sending out

[0:38:30] Trustee Luckham: sure um so obviously we could have men that i would consider that a friendly amendment as it

[0:38:36] Trustee Luckham: doesn't change the intent of the motion uh planner mccargo um does that seem reasonable to you and is

[0:38:42] Trustee Luckham: Is that possible for you or somebody in the office

[0:38:48] Trustee Luckham: to look after crafting that as a letter

[0:38:52] Trustee Luckham: from the LTC for signature?

[0:38:55] Planner McCargar: Yes, that's something that we can do.

[0:38:57] Trustee Luckham: All right.

[0:39:00] Trustee Bernardo: Just so the record is clean about this,

[0:39:02] Trustee Bernardo: I'm going to suggest that the LTC,

[0:39:05] Trustee Bernardo: since the motion was seconded,

[0:39:07] Trustee Bernardo: that the LTC, I suppose technically,

[0:39:16] Trustee Bernardo: uh i'd like to move to table this mo the motion or with rescinded and then have a new motion just to

[0:39:23] Trustee Bernardo: clean it up just asking staff to prepare a letter this text in a letter for you the chair's signature

[0:39:32] Trustee Luckham: all right so i think it's uh uh uh an acceptable practice um for the uh the mover to withdraw

[0:39:40] Trustee Luckham: draw the motion and so i'll take it then uh trustee bernardo do you wish to withdraw your motion

[0:39:47] Trustee Bernardo: uh my under yes but my understanding is that once a motion has been seconded is no longer

[0:39:51] Trustee Bernardo: the property of the mover but of the committee as a whole and therefore uh if

[0:40:00] Trustee Bernardo: if the committee by consent agrees that we can simply just uh rescind the motion and start over

[0:40:06] Trustee Bernardo: that

[0:40:08] Trustee Luckham: has always been my understanding and belief up until recently and i've been corrected in

[0:40:12] Trustee Luckham: recent history um that uh the mover can withdraw the motion so i'm just going to follow up on that

[0:40:19] Trustee Luckham: practice and all

[0:40:21] Trustee Bernardo: right the other

[0:40:21] Trustee Luckham: uh is that all right trustee bernardo uh

[0:40:25] Trustee Bernardo: if if if you tell me

[0:40:27] Trustee Bernardo: that works uh i'm fine with that so let's withdraw the let's withdraw the motion and i'm going to

[0:40:32] Trustee Bernardo: to start over, I move that the LTC ask or request staff

[0:40:40] Trustee Bernardo: to prepare a letter with the text as provided

[0:40:47] Trustee Bernardo: by Planner McArter for the chair's signature

[0:40:52] Trustee Bernardo: and forwarding to

[0:40:54] Voice 11: the Ministry of Forest.

[0:41:02] Voice 11: I'll second.

[0:41:04] Voice 11: I can't hear you, Chair Luckom.

[0:41:10] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Stanford, thank you for seconding.

[0:41:12] Trustee Luckham: Recorder Corbett, do you have that motion?

[0:41:15] Trustee Luckham: Yes, I do.

[0:41:17] Trustee Luckham: Excellent.

[0:41:17] Trustee Luckham: Any further discussion on the motion?

[0:41:21] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor, please raise your hands,

[0:41:23] Trustee Luckham: digitally or otherwise.

[0:41:24] Trustee Luckham: My hand's raised.

[0:41:25] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, I see that.

[0:41:26] Trustee Stamford: No, I

[0:41:26] Trustee Stamford: actually cannot get on video, so.

[0:41:29] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, that's fine.

[0:41:30] Trustee Luckham: So that carries.

[0:41:32] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, everybody.

[0:41:35] Trustee Luckham: I'll just remark, if that's okay,

[0:41:37] Trustee Luckham: Okay, that in the conversation back and forth by email, and Planet Macargar, you can confirm that or not, that the applicant needs to apply, make an application.

[0:41:50] Trustee Luckham: A simple wording amendment is not actually something that can be achieved.

[0:41:56] Trustee Luckham: So it will take some time from process, but certainly the LTC has the ability to prioritize that if they wish.

[0:42:03] Trustee Luckham: and so I'll just open the floor up here now for a conversation on the what you raised there

[0:42:12] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Bernardi with respect to the timeline. So that's why

[0:42:17] Trustee Luckham: I had my hand up and

[0:42:19] Trustee Stamford: go ahead then

[0:42:20] Trustee Luckham: you're so that go

[0:42:22] Trustee Stamford: ahead to me this is this is the nut of the issue is I was really hoping that

[0:42:27] Trustee Stamford: But just adding in, communication cables would be able to get this going because I am concerned that their timeline is the whole of the BC coast.

[0:42:39] Trustee Stamford: So us holding them off for six months even, which is not long in terms of our rezoning, is going to cause them to bypass Keats.

[0:42:51] Trustee Stamford: And that would be devastating.

[0:42:53] Trustee Stamford: So I would like more understanding of why we cannot do a, quote, unquote, in-house initiated text amendment instead of a full zoning amendment application process, simply to add in communications cables for that zone.

[0:43:14] Voice 11: And I guess that's a question through the chair to the planner.

[0:43:18] Voice 11: Yeah,

[0:43:23] Planner McCargar: I can answer that.

[0:43:24] Planner McCargar: And just for clarity, we did receive a Crown lease referral back in February, and so they have known about this issue for a number of months.

[0:43:37] Planner McCargar: We've known that they would need to get a rezoning, but they are a private company, a private corporation, as far as I'm aware.

[0:43:46] Planner McCargar: And so for the LTC to be seen as benefiting a private corporation, there's trust council policy that wouldn't allow for that.

[0:43:57] Planner McCargar: They would need to initiate the application themselves.

[0:44:01] Planner McCargar: That also gives them some control over the application, gives them the ability to ask us for exactly what they're looking for.

[0:44:10] Planner McCargar: And we also need to do some planning analysis around.

[0:44:15] Planner McCargar: it does seem like a very simple change, but we haven't had an opportunity to evaluate why

[0:44:21] Planner McCargar: utilities were left out of that zone. You know, look at the OCP, trust policy statement.

[0:44:31] Planner McCargar: There's a lot of things that still need to happen before we can just go ahead. It's not

[0:44:38] Planner McCargar: quite as simple as just doing a text amendment, unfortunately. But once we receive an application

[0:44:44] Planner McCargar: application as chair Luckham said the LTC can make the the choice at that time to expedite it

[0:44:50] Planner McCargar: so to to bring them to the front of the queue to focus all of staff time uh application time on

[0:44:57] Planner McCargar: on processing that and and that can be done fairly quickly but we do need to to receive

[0:45:03] Planner McCargar: an application we've been letting them know that for the last 10 months and haven't seen anything

[0:45:08] Planner McCargar: anything yet thank

[0:45:11] Trustee Bernardo: you well that's a if I may speak uh that's unfortunate but the one thing

[0:45:16] Trustee Bernardo: that's not acceptable is that the LTC becomes the barrier because of bureaucratic abstract

[0:45:25] Trustee Bernardo: consideration becomes the barrier to people in Keats Island having access to broadband internet

[0:45:31] Trustee Bernardo: um let's get real here this is a project that is uh being advanced by the province

[0:45:38] Trustee Bernardo: uh it's going all up and down the coast and uh it doesn't seem that complicated to me uh and

[0:45:48] Trustee Bernardo: um the concern that the ltc on its own initiative undertake a text amendment

[0:45:59] Trustee Bernardo: would benefit a private entity uh that's separate from the fact that the purpose of doing so would

[0:46:09] Trustee Bernardo: be to benefit the residents of keats island so the incidental fact that it happens to facilitate this

[0:46:17] Trustee Bernardo: private enterprise from carrying on its business that's only part of the question the larger

[0:46:22] Trustee Bernardo: question is the business is being undertaken to benefit the residents of these islands and along

[0:46:28] Trustee Bernardo: the coast so um i don't see any ethical or principled objections to undertaking

[0:46:35] Trustee Bernardo: taking a textual change for that purpose.

[0:46:40] Trustee Bernardo: If it was strictly to benefit a private enterprise,

[0:46:43] Trustee Bernardo: I could see the point,

[0:46:45] Trustee Bernardo: but I'm

[0:46:48] Voice 11: very concerned that we'd be flexible enough

[0:46:55] Voice 11: to

[0:46:55] Trustee Bernardo: expedite this project so that it delivers

[0:46:59] Trustee Bernardo: the social goods that we all want for keys.

[0:47:03] Trustee Bernardo: So what I've heard, and I stand to be corrected here,

[0:47:08] Trustee Bernardo: here isn't that a textual amendment is impossible, but that there's policies in place that look

[0:47:14] Trustee Bernardo: askance at it. And if a trust policy statement says something about it, then the LTC is bound

[0:47:21] Trustee Bernardo: by it. Apart from that, if it doesn't say anything about it, you know, I'm trying to

[0:47:28] Trustee Bernardo: restrain myself here, but you know, let's give our heads a shake. I mean, if you look

[0:47:33] Trustee Bernardo: at the terms, I don't know if the rest of the trustees have looked at the terms of the

[0:47:37] Trustee Bernardo: marine general zoning requirement it's a handful of sentences there's two provisions

[0:47:42] Trustee Bernardo: there's almost nothing there it's no mystery as to why it doesn't refer to telecommutation

[0:47:49] Trustee Bernardo: cables it's an oversight and i say that because when you look at um well first of all what

[0:47:58] Trustee Bernardo: bylaw 78 central b to bylaw 78 it defines the marine general zone is the thousand meters of

[0:48:06] Trustee Bernardo: sea bar and the relevant requirements are section 4.15 4.15.1 says permitted uses of land structures

[0:48:16] Trustee Bernardo: are limited to research and educational activities and navigational uses 4.15.2 says no permit

[0:48:24] Trustee Bernardo: structures are permitted except navigational aids that's it that's that's the whole zoning

[0:48:30] Trustee Bernardo: requirements for the marine general it was it's clearly a very general restriction or prohibition

[0:48:40] Trustee Bernardo: on land uses that didn't contemplate or didn't anticipate delaying a marine cable

[0:48:47] Trustee Bernardo: now what's interesting here is wherever we're not clear yet as to where it's going to land

[0:48:55] Trustee Bernardo: this cable and i think we would need some kind of macquarie in the course of discussing things

[0:49:01] Trustee Bernardo: with connected coast if it's possible to also find out from them exactly what landing site

[0:49:05] Trustee Bernardo: you have in mind uh but if it's in the actual community then it would be covered by the

[0:49:11] Trustee Bernardo: community residential one zone if it's on rec beach which i doubt uh it would be zone natural

[0:49:17] Trustee Bernardo: community park one doesn't matter because the zoning requirements for both of those zones

[0:49:23] Trustee Bernardo: are substantially more fulsome than those for the MG zone and both of those zones already permit

[0:49:30] Trustee Bernardo: the establishment of telecommunication utilities within them. So the zoning is already in place

[0:49:36] Trustee Bernardo: that would allow Connected Coast to do the terrestrial part of the work. The only outstanding

[0:49:41] Trustee Bernardo: thing here is the laying of the cable in that 1,000 meters from the shoreline that's governed

[0:49:47] Trustee Bernardo: like the MG zoning requirement.

[0:49:51] Trustee Bernardo: And it seems to me, just one more point,

[0:49:54] Trustee Bernardo: it seems to me a textual amendment

[0:49:57] Trustee Bernardo: that makes the MG zone consistent

[0:50:01] Trustee Bernardo: with what we're already doing in the other zones.

[0:50:05] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, I think that change is defensible on that basis.

[0:50:08] Trustee Bernardo: And I will now hand things over to Trustee Stamford

[0:50:12] Trustee Bernardo: who obviously has some things to say.

[0:50:13] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[0:50:16] Trustee Stamford: So following up in that,

[0:50:20] Trustee Stamford: I don't necessarily ever think that just simply going against an island's trust policy is

[0:50:26] Trustee Stamford: something we do lightly, although somehow TELUS got a trunk in, not only through the

[0:50:34] Trustee Stamford: marine, but right across the island.

[0:50:37] Trustee Stamford: And as far as I can tell, there was nothing that island's trust had to do with that.

[0:50:44] Trustee Stamford: So I can't imagine what policies fell by the wayside on that.

[0:50:50] Trustee Stamford: um so in the in the greater context i i totally agree with trustee bernardo that

[0:50:57] Trustee Stamford: although technically this is a private company it is doing it on the behalf of the federal and

[0:51:04] Trustee Stamford: provincial government it's doing it for a very direct benefit to islanders um it's a profound

[0:51:12] Trustee Stamford: found change in in how we can accommodate our community in on keats so there i'm really hoping

[0:51:23] Trustee Stamford: to see a way around this that and i i do acknowledge that they have had 10 months with

[0:51:29] Trustee Stamford: which to respond uh with an application which could have put them in the timeline as required

[0:51:36] Trustee Stamford: And they haven't done so. So, you know, that's noted. But the speed at which this is going in, it's already going into other islands all up and down the coast. I'm really concerned that the stop at Keats will get bypassed for several years, if not longer, if we do not have our ducks in a row in order to make use of this opportunity.

[0:52:03] Trustee Stamford: opportunity there's a huge amount of money that's gone into this public money and i don't want to

[0:52:08] Trustee Stamford: lose that opportunity the

[0:52:16] Voice 11: question then is really what do we do about it um do we uh you know i'll

[0:52:28] Trustee Bernardo: be careful here my natural inclination is to see problem solve problem move on to next problem

[0:52:34] Trustee Bernardo: uh i'm not particularly patient with um formalistic details unless they add something

[0:52:44] Trustee Bernardo: to the process the one thing i've heard from trust or from planner mccarter that i thought

[0:52:51] Trustee Bernardo: needed some attention is not those generic policies that really don't govern the local

[0:53:02] Trustee Bernardo: trust committee but

[0:53:04] Voice 11: the trust policy statement does govern uh what we do and uh although i

[0:53:13] Trustee Bernardo: drafted a resolution to sort of make the text will change uh i really want to move it i don't think i

[0:53:19] Trustee Bernardo: will today because what i would like staff to do and staff has the text of this resolution

[0:53:28] Trustee Bernardo: I'd like staff to come back to the next meeting which is I'm sorry about this do we have a meeting

[0:53:35] Trustee Bernardo: scheduled in December no

[0:53:37] Trustee Stamford: no it's the end

[0:53:38] Trustee Stamford: of January and I can't make that meeting

[0:53:40] Voice 11: so and

[0:53:41] Voice 11: okay that's the next

[0:53:43] Voice 11: well it's a trust policy

[0:53:49] Trustee Bernardo: statement uh it's like the the proposed resolution

[0:53:53] Trustee Bernardo: that I forwarded and is not in the materials but that I was prepared to make on the fly I mean

[0:53:59] Trustee Bernardo: I think it does need to be looked at as against whether or not there's anything about it that

[0:54:04] Trustee Bernardo: would offend the trust policy statement. And what I mean by that is not the formalistic stuff,

[0:54:11] Trustee Bernardo: but the substance of what the trust policy statement is trying to get at in terms of the

[0:54:14] Trustee Bernardo: preserve and protect mandate. I very much doubt that it does, but that is a step that should

[0:54:21] Trustee Bernardo: happen, I would think. But maybe I'm wrong about that. If Trustee Stamford thinks that

[0:54:27] Trustee Bernardo: that it's unnecessary,

[0:54:29] Trustee Bernardo: then I'd be prepared to make a motion.

[0:54:32] Trustee Bernardo: Otherwise, I'm struggling to think of a solution here.

[0:54:35] Trustee Bernardo: I really would like to know an answer

[0:54:37] Trustee Bernardo: that January, 2024 reference,

[0:54:39] Trustee Bernardo: but I'm seeing a path here where we may have to have

[0:54:43] Trustee Bernardo: a resolution without meeting before the end of January

[0:54:47] Trustee Bernardo: in order to resolve this,

[0:54:48] Trustee Bernardo: because we really don't want to get in the way.

[0:54:52] Trustee Bernardo: So I'd like to hear if possible from Trustee Stamford

[0:54:55] Trustee Bernardo: about her views about the trust policy statement uh element and also from the chair about that

[0:55:01] Trustee Bernardo: uh because that would help me make up my mind about uh what i would uh it would help me think

[0:55:09] Trustee Bernardo: uh in a clearer way about potential next steps

[0:55:13] Trustee Stamford: i i'm honestly i'm interested to hear what um

[0:55:17] Trustee Stamford: Chair Luckham, from his perspective, from Island's Trust view, I'm not seeing where the conflict is to move ahead with the careful wording.

[0:55:32] Trustee Stamford: I did read your proposed amendment. I mean, I understand why you did it the way it was. There's just something I would like to see changed.

[0:55:42] Trustee Stamford: But rereading that bylaw with your adjustments, I just don't see how this could be a problem.

[0:55:55] Trustee Stamford: And yet the alternative is quite profound.

[0:56:00] Trustee Stamford: So, Chair Luckham, what are your thoughts on this trust point of view?

[0:56:05] Trustee Stamford: Well,

[0:56:08] Trustee Luckham: you know, I certainly appreciate the necessity for assisting in this process of delivering connectivity to the islands.

[0:56:20] Trustee Luckham: You know, this is a huge project, as has been indicated, that is underway.

[0:56:25] Trustee Luckham: The federal government certainly intends to drop a fiber loop in the vicinity of Keats Island there.

[0:56:30] Trustee Luckham: there. And I don't imagine that even if there are delays, that it's going to jeopardize the project.

[0:56:40] Trustee Luckham: It's just a matter of reorganizing and rescheduling accordingly. It's been taking

[0:56:45] Trustee Luckham: years and years and years already to get this far. I think that what's been pointed out earlier

[0:56:50] Trustee Luckham: is that we're still awaiting an application from the company, Connected Coast. And even just

[0:56:58] Trustee Luckham: Just recently, it's been a couple of three weeks since I had the initial conversation about these minor amendments, we'll call it, to the OCP and to say, well, you need to get your application in.

[0:57:09] Trustee Luckham: And so really, we need to get the application in and we can have this conversation and not delay it.

[0:57:14] Trustee Luckham: We can accelerate it as we see fit, talk about these things that have been raised in terms of how technical amendment that might be.

[0:57:22] Trustee Luckham: But what's lingering in the back of my mind here is, is this an occasion and is it suitable that a temporary use permit could be utilized for that purpose to get them at least on the beach and then the rezoning would follow suit?

[0:57:38] Trustee Luckham: Because, of course, the reason the zoning exists is not to single out any particular application that comes forward, but to ensure that there's a conformity of a process that exists across the region, and we don't set precedents by altering our processes to facilitate what's perceived as a community need.

[0:58:02] Trustee Luckham: And I use that loosely because it definitely is an expectation today.

[0:58:07] Trustee Luckham: So I don't have any trouble with having RWMs or special meetings or whatever is necessary.

[0:58:16] Trustee Luckham: But time is marching on. And although they will need to get their application in, which is what the letter is for, they will do that until they actually want to get a machine on the beach and start doing things.

[0:58:30] Trustee Luckham: the zoning can be moved along but it does beg the question to me about is this a use or density

[0:58:37] Trustee Luckham: issue that a temporary use permit is not permitted for and is that an important like

[0:58:46] Trustee Luckham: is that an important decision that has to be made today we could obviously have an RWM or some other

[0:58:51] Trustee Luckham: email correspondence to proceed with this if it becomes necessary in the next coming months.

[0:59:02] Trustee Luckham: So I'd look to staff's advice on the TUP concept to advance this in a more meaningful way.

[0:59:08] Planner McCargar: Yeah, from my quick look, it wouldn't be permitted. The Keats Land Use By-law has

[0:59:14] Planner McCargar: temporary use permits for very specific reasons and it wouldn't fall.

[0:59:17] Planner McCargar: Yeah,

[0:59:18] Trustee Luckham: that's the case. I understand that. Okay. So I just don't know that we need to belabor this too much today. The issue is well understood. And I think that if the applicant is listening, potential applicant is listening, let's get that application in and we can process it.

[0:59:36] Trustee Luckham: because we as trustee bernardo said we need to know some specifics to allow this what beach is

[0:59:42] Trustee Luckham: it coming in on and uh and what is the nature of the work and then indeed that language can

[0:59:47] Trustee Luckham: be facilitated in there although sure it's general fiber optic connections or power connections or

[0:59:53] Trustee Luckham: whatever it is um it's interesting that this dilemma exists on gambler because it doesn't exist

[1:00:00] Trustee Luckham: other areas where the cable is being dropped and so it does make me think that there was a reason

[1:00:06] Trustee Luckham: for this particular bottle being different than many of the others it's up to you what you want

[1:00:12] Trustee Luckham: to do yeah

[1:00:13] Trustee Stamford: yeah just quickly comment that it is keith's gambier doesn't have this issue so it

[1:00:18] Trustee Stamford: it's keats thank you

[1:00:20] Trustee Stamford: it is keats

[1:00:23] Voice 11: and if i may um the the i appreciate the chair wants to proceed in

[1:00:34] Voice 11: a

[1:00:35] Trustee Bernardo: pattern of normal order and is wary of setting precedents but you know my own view is that

[1:00:42] Trustee Bernardo: sometimes um we have to be flexible sometimes we have to appreciate the urgency of things

[1:00:49] Trustee Bernardo: things uh our processes exist for a reason it's to deliver the goods for our people they don't

[1:00:56] Trustee Bernardo: have any value in and of themselves their function and when they cease to be functional it's incumbent

[1:01:02] Trustee Bernardo: on us as trustees to work within the law and use the tools available and sometimes do things that

[1:01:10] Trustee Bernardo: are original so um what I didn't hear the chair in response to Trustee Sanford's question I didn't

[1:01:21] Trustee Bernardo: hear the chair uh arrive to be honest a compelling reason as to why we ought not to simply amend this

[1:01:31] Trustee Bernardo: now uh trustee sanford i appreciate her remarks that she doesn't really see any particular

[1:01:38] Trustee Bernardo: principle of issues uh and delaying this um or any already valued frankly and delaying this

[1:01:46] Trustee Bernardo: um and

[1:01:48] Voice 11: some of the chair's remarks

[1:01:52] Trustee Bernardo: i just want to clarify something uh i'm not sure if the

[1:01:54] Trustee Bernardo: to what the chair was whether the chair was referring to rezoning and references to density

[1:02:01] Trustee Bernardo: all of those are not at issue here uh in terms of rezoning on land no rezoning on land is required

[1:02:10] Trustee Bernardo: the telecommunication exemption is available already in the bylaw 78 uh in the cr1 zone

[1:02:20] Trustee Bernardo: zone and the P1 zone. Those are the only two possible zones a cable could land. Once a

[1:02:27] Trustee Bernardo: cable lands on the beach, the zoning allows the further development of infrastructure,

[1:02:37] Trustee Bernardo: say the terminal location of the cable that gets picked up by the ISP that then has to

[1:02:41] Trustee Bernardo: get its building permit to carry on and go on with distributing the cable. That's all

[1:02:49] Trustee Bernardo: covered the only thing that needs to be covered is the mg zone issue which is to lay down that

[1:02:56] Trustee Bernardo: thousand meters of cable from the perimeter of the zone the outer perimeter up to the shoreline

[1:03:03] Trustee Bernardo: that's the one issue

[1:03:05] Voice 11: um so um i would like trustee sanford i'm actually i'm prepared to

[1:03:15] Trustee Bernardo: make the motion actually and i'd like to know before i do so the trustee samford had some

[1:03:22] Trustee Bernardo: points about uh the language of the proposed resolution that i'd come up with and i'd like

[1:03:29] Trustee Bernardo: to hear from her because uh uh the resolution has to work for both of the trustees from from

[1:03:36] Trustee Bernardo: well

[1:03:36] Trustee Stamford: as i i made the edits into the the um the bylaw as you had written them i think

[1:03:46] Trustee Stamford: and uh they looked fine the only thing at the end is this telecommunication facilities

[1:03:51] Trustee Stamford: to me is a little vague um i just wanted something a little tighter than facilities

[1:03:56] Trustee Stamford: because that could be something really big um and i wasn't sure if there was a term that would

[1:04:02] Trustee Stamford: better describe um and provide that specificity so that we were somewhat protected from i don't

[1:04:10] Trustee Stamford: know a giant transformer or something like that well

[1:04:13] Trustee Bernardo: the language i picked up there um

[1:04:16] Trustee Bernardo: was uh let's see what does um the p1 though says permitted building instructions at p1 at 4.9.2

[1:04:25] Trustee Bernardo: it says the following buildings instructions are permitted and it says electrical and

[1:04:30] Trustee Bernardo: telecommunication utilities yeah

[1:04:33] Trustee Stamford: i think utilities would be better

[1:04:34] Trustee Stamford: all

[1:04:35] Trustee Bernardo: right that's

[1:04:38] Trustee Stamford: that's all i had that was my only concern all

[1:04:41] Trustee Bernardo: right well

[1:04:42] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I appreciate Planner McHargir's comments

[1:04:46] Trustee Bernardo: and also those of the chair,

[1:04:49] Trustee Bernardo: but I do think there's a compelling need

[1:04:53] Trustee Bernardo: not to get in the way.

[1:04:54] Trustee Bernardo: And I appreciate the fact that the company

[1:04:57] Trustee Bernardo: that is building this was told 10 months ago

[1:05:02] Trustee Bernardo: that the smart thing to do was to file a zoning,

[1:05:05] Trustee Bernardo: a rezoning application,

[1:05:06] Trustee Bernardo: but that's neither here nor there

[1:05:13] Trustee Bernardo: in terms of what's useful and necessary

[1:05:15] Trustee Bernardo: for the people on the island they should have applied sooner i'm sure they have all sorts of

[1:05:21] Trustee Bernardo: excuses if we ask them and that they might or might not be plausible my own view is that's done

[1:05:28] Trustee Bernardo: it's irrelevant the question is what do the people on keats need from us not the company what do they

[1:05:34] Trustee Bernardo: need and that's why i'm prepared to make this motion but i see planer mccarter has her hand up

[1:05:39] Trustee Bernardo: So perhaps, Mr. Chair, you can recognize her because she has something relevant to say.

[1:05:44] Trustee Bernardo: Before

[1:05:44] Trustee Luckham: I go to Planner McCargo, I just want to add, and maybe Planner McCargo already has a question in her own mind and a potential answer.

[1:05:54] Trustee Luckham: So if we're talking about OCP amendment here, a language bylaw amendment, what are the public hearing requirements, period?

[1:06:01] Trustee Luckham: And is it possible for us to waive those public hearing requirements in this particular scenario?

[1:06:09] Trustee Luckham: And then whatever else you have to share with us,

[1:06:12] Trustee Luckham: Planner McCarter.

[1:06:15] Planner McCargar: Yeah, so I just wanted to,

[1:06:17] Planner McCargar: before we kind of get into the weeds of this motion,

[1:06:20] Planner McCargar: to just take a step back.

[1:06:22] Planner McCargar: And what we are talking about here is a minor project.

[1:06:27] Planner McCargar: This isn't just going to be a simple text amendment.

[1:06:30] Planner McCargar: That's not how the process works.

[1:06:32] Planner McCargar: We would need to do an amendment bylaw.

[1:06:34] Planner McCargar: It would still need to get, you know,

[1:06:36] Planner McCargar: go through all the same readings,

[1:06:38] Planner McCargar: executive committee approval.

[1:06:40] Planner McCargar: approval I haven't done an analysis I don't know if this would require an OCP amendment as well as

[1:06:46] Planner McCargar: an LUB amendment so I don't know if a public hearing would be required and then just you know

[1:06:54] Planner McCargar: that this is going against policy where when an applicant is a registered non registered for

[1:07:02] Planner McCargar: profit corporation that the LTC should not be initiating an application on their behalf so

[1:07:09] Planner McCargar: So whether this would even get approved once it, you know, gets along in the process to the executive committee, I don't know.

[1:07:15] Planner McCargar: I haven't done a full analysis on this, but I just wanted to kind of lay out some of the risks that we might be facing if we move forward with this in this particular way.

[1:07:27] Planner McCargar: And just that staff resources, you already do have a minor project.

[1:07:32] Planner McCargar: So, you know, taking that into consideration as well that, that staff, how are staff going to pick up another amendment project.

[1:07:44] Voice 11: So, I'm sorry.

[1:07:46] Voice 11: Sorry,

[1:07:47] Trustee Stamford: it's hard for me to find my, my hand each time. So what you're saying is matter how we do this.

[1:07:52] Trustee Stamford: this um it's a it's a minor project whether it's rezoning through the regular way or just trying to

[1:08:00] Trustee Stamford: ram this through um it's still a minor project requires x number of staff etc etc um i i i think

[1:08:11] Trustee Stamford: i understand the policy i i understand why it comes in i just think that this is a consideration

[1:08:22] Trustee Stamford: That wasn't anticipated. I do really think this is an oversight of this particular regulation, rather than something deliberately put in or left out. So, yeah, I'm still willing to move ahead and support the argument to this specific scenario when the time comes.

[1:08:50] Trustee Stamford: Yes.

[1:08:54] Trustee Bernardo: And with respect to, you know, the potential problems or hurdles that might

[1:09:01] Trustee Bernardo: subsequently follow as a result of this resolution, if we make it,

[1:09:07] Trustee Bernardo: well, if the executive committee wants to reject the change because of formalistic reasons,

[1:09:20] Trustee Bernardo: if they want to step into that buzzsaw, that's up to them.

[1:09:25] Trustee Bernardo: I do have

[1:09:26] Trustee Bernardo: a question about this

[1:09:28] Trustee Bernardo: public hearing aspect of it

[1:09:30] Trustee Bernardo: for Planner McCarger

[1:09:34] Trustee Bernardo: this isn't

[1:09:35] Trustee Bernardo: a change to the OCP

[1:09:36] Trustee Bernardo: it would be a change to the LUB

[1:09:38] Trustee Bernardo: does that require public hearing?

[1:09:41] Planner McCargar: I haven't done

[1:09:42] Trustee Bernardo: an

[1:09:43] Planner McCargar: analysis to know if this is

[1:09:45] Planner McCargar: consistent with the OCP

[1:09:46] Planner McCargar: if it's not then it would require

[1:09:49] Planner McCargar: an OCP amendment however if it's just

[1:09:51] Planner McCargar: an LUB amendment the LTC

[1:09:53] Planner McCargar: can waive the public hearing

[1:09:56] Trustee Bernardo: well in that case uh you've heard from trustee stanford and from myself

[1:10:02] Voice 11: that uh

[1:10:05] Trustee Bernardo: we've in a sense done the analysis we think it's consistent with the ocp

[1:10:11] Trustee Bernardo: and we don't think i don't think of public hearing is necessary and i gather trustee

[1:10:15] Trustee Bernardo: stanford doesn't either and on that basis i'm going to make this motion and um i did forward

[1:10:24] Trustee Bernardo: it to planer mccarger uh last night i'm wondering if she can put it up on the screen please

[1:10:30] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, so

[1:10:31] Planner McCargar: just before that motion gets put forward, would it be possible to allow RPM Renee Jamerat to speak?

[1:10:41] Planner McCargar: She's got her hand up. She's in the attendees list.

[1:10:44] Planner McCargar: Yes,

[1:10:45] Trustee Bernardo: but before we do that, could we actually put the actual text up on the screen?

[1:10:50] Trustee Bernardo: And I want to just change the text so it reflects the discussion that we just had with Trustee Sanford.

[1:10:56] Trustee Bernardo: And then, of course, let's hear from, you

[1:11:01] Voice 11: know, the regional planning manager.

[1:11:05] Voice 11: Okay, thank you.

[1:11:06] Trustee Luckham: And as we're contemplating this, and perhaps maybe that's what RPM Chamorat is offering,

[1:11:13] Trustee Luckham: is we can make a motion to direct staff to investigate options for the LTC to advance this application

[1:11:22] Trustee Luckham: location in the most efficient manner possible, rather than getting into the specifics at this

[1:11:29] Trustee Luckham: time without having that professional analysis done by our staff. But over to you, regional

[1:11:35] Trustee Luckham: planning manager Gemara. Thank you for joining us and wanting to help us with this.

[1:11:40] Voice 5: Thank you through the chair. That's exactly what I was going to reiterate is an offer for the LTC

[1:11:46] Voice 5: see to consider is the um analysis that would be completed as part of the amendment process

[1:11:52] Voice 5: um consistency with the policy statements consistency with the ocp and the land use

[1:11:58] Voice 5: bylaw so um that would need to occur in in terms of bringing this forward um and perhaps discussing

[1:12:07] Voice 5: the analysis today may be a little bit um premature before staff can um do a review of that

[1:12:14] Voice 5: And it would be staff to do that analysis and provide that back to the LTC for

[1:12:19] Voice 11: consideration of the bylaw readings.

[1:12:21] Voice 11: Thanks.

[1:12:22] Voice 11: I appreciate the

[1:12:27] Trustee Bernardo: regional planning manager's comments

[1:12:30] Trustee Bernardo: and I can understand both where she

[1:12:35] Trustee Bernardo: and Planner McArter are coming from.

[1:12:38] Trustee Bernardo: There is a regular order to doing these things

[1:12:40] Trustee Bernardo: in which a staff has its input.

[1:12:43] Trustee Bernardo: And then usually the trustees will deliberate

[1:12:47] Trustee Bernardo: on the basis of that input and other considerations.

[1:12:50] Trustee Bernardo: The profound difficulty I'm having

[1:12:52] Trustee Bernardo: is everything I've heard from the staff,

[1:12:54] Trustee Bernardo: although well-intentioned is referring us to the regular process and at the same time the staff is

[1:13:02] Trustee Bernardo: telling us that it is a significant resource commitment because it would if it goes through

[1:13:11] Trustee Bernardo: regular process it's going to have to go through the whole anaply of processes and stages and we've

[1:13:21] Trustee Bernardo: been flat out told is going to take a long time it's going to take months even if we accelerate

[1:13:27] Trustee Bernardo: i don't think that's reasonable in the circumstances it's not feasible and there's

[1:13:35] Trustee Bernardo: no magic to this we already permit utilities on the island the power cable from hydro lands at

[1:13:43] Trustee Bernardo: sandy beach which is now in the conservation area we're not talking about messing around with

[1:13:48] Trustee Bernardo: the land that's above water we're talking about laying a cable on the sea bottom cables that are

[1:13:55] Trustee Bernardo: by definition are sealed they will disrupt the sea bottom in the sense that they're going to rest on

[1:14:01] Trustee Bernardo: it a crab or two might get crushed but it's not going to change the environment we need to apply

[1:14:08] Trustee Bernardo: a certain amount of common sense here it's unfortunate that the connected coast people

[1:14:14] Trustee Bernardo: didn't listen to staff's advice they've created the situation where we're now under this dilemma

[1:14:21] Trustee Bernardo: But our responsibility as trustees is to deliver the goods

[1:14:25] Trustee Bernardo: for the people notwithstanding that somebody else

[1:14:29] Trustee Bernardo: is screwed up to be blunt.

[1:14:32] Trustee Bernardo: And on that basis, I would like that motion to be up,

[1:14:35] Trustee Bernardo: put up on the screen because I want to make that motion

[1:14:38] Voice 11: today.

[1:14:39] Voice 11: So can we get that motion up on the screen

[1:14:44] Trustee Luckham: for the benefit of the public to understand

[1:14:47] Trustee Luckham: where it is we're talking about and then for determination

[1:14:50] Trustee Luckham: as to whether or not.

[1:14:54] Trustee Bernardo: And following up on the discussion we had about fiddling with the language here, if I could ask whoever has control of the screen to replace the word facilities at the end of item four with

[1:15:08] Voice 11: the word utilities.

[1:15:09] Voice 11: expertise

[1:15:17] Voice 14: i'm i'm

[1:15:19] Trustee Stamford: just gonna jump in here because i want to be here that i don't want to see this

[1:15:25] Trustee Stamford: go through and then it get completely balled up because bypassing the system throws it into some

[1:15:32] Trustee Stamford: weird legal interpretation i think then that completely loses the purpose of what we're

[1:15:39] Trustee Stamford: trying to do we are trying to get this through as fast as possible so keats does not get bypassed

[1:15:45] Trustee Stamford: by this huge opportunity um i'm i think if how do i put it if we put this through and it still

[1:15:57] Trustee Stamford: takes six months then i'm not sure why we're doing it if we put something uh more

[1:16:04] Trustee Stamford: a motion that gives staff the opportunity to prioritize it and get it done without that

[1:16:12] Trustee Stamford: that concern that we are just ignoring policies and ramming an adjustment to a bylaw, which is

[1:16:23] Trustee Stamford: in fact what we're doing, even though it's very minor, it is bypassing the process for bylaws.

[1:16:31] Trustee Stamford: And I'm concerned about potential blowback in a legal term that we would actually lose

[1:16:40] Trustee Stamford: the opportunity because we wouldn't be able to advance that by-law. Does that make sense,

[1:16:46] Trustee Stamford: any sense whatsoever?

[1:16:49] Trustee Bernardo: If I may speak, I

[1:16:52] Voice 11: understand the concern. I'm not sure,

[1:16:58] Trustee Bernardo: with respect, I'm not sure it's something to actually be concerned about. We heard from

[1:17:04] Trustee Bernardo: Planning MacArthur that a change to the LUB and not a change to the OCP, provided the change

[1:17:12] Trustee Bernardo: to the lub is consistent with the ocp that that that we can waive the public hearing period

[1:17:18] Trustee Bernardo: yeah that's a legal consideration well um we're drawing a conclusion here or at least some of us

[1:17:26] Trustee Bernardo: or i'm at least drawing the conclusion that this type of change would necessarily be consistent

[1:17:32] Trustee Bernardo: with the ocp because we've already we're already doing it on land yeah i mean how else do we have

[1:17:40] Trustee Bernardo: utilities yeah because we already permit telecommunication utilities uh in every zone

[1:17:47] Trustee Bernardo: where people live yeah

[1:17:49] Trustee Stamford: and and i do understand that and and i'm i'm totally comfortable with

[1:17:53] Trustee Stamford: that part just making sure that um that by making this we then don't throw a full other sideways um

[1:18:03] Trustee Stamford: uh problem into it which is how do you go against a a policy that in general is saying

[1:18:10] Trustee Stamford: when you make changes to your land use bylaw you have to do it in a specific way you can't just

[1:18:17] Trustee Stamford: like we could just say oh we're going to add shovels into um 4.2.1 of of the bylaw it's just

[1:18:26] Trustee Stamford: small but we're just going to throw it in um i just want to make sure even though i do agree with

[1:18:33] Trustee Stamford: the importance of this particular adjustment that we're not going to get sidetracked for a

[1:18:39] Trustee Stamford: a completely different reason and i just also want to quickly add in that when we talk about

[1:18:43] Trustee Stamford: oh we're just throwing cables down in the water a few crabs get crushed that actually is a much

[1:18:50] Trustee Stamford: bigger issue and that that would be dealt with through um other permitting processes that this

[1:18:57] Trustee Stamford: company will have to go through is we do want to protect exactly that scenario it isn't just a

[1:19:05] Trustee Stamford: single yeah it can be quite a profound effect on the the seabed of this type of construction

[1:19:13] Trustee Stamford: um but it's being done all over the place right now anyway um so i don't want to if

[1:19:22] Trustee Bernardo: i may respond

[1:19:23] Trustee Bernardo: to some of these points and they are important points with respect to the last one about the

[1:19:27] Trustee Bernardo: cable having some effect on the sea bottom that's inevitable because we're laying down this

[1:19:34] Trustee Bernardo: impermeable cable on the surface is going to affect whatever it touches i

[1:19:37] Trustee Stamford: just don't want

[1:19:38] Trustee Stamford: to belittle it i want to recognize that that is an important aspect

[1:19:42] Voice 11: yes yes but

[1:19:43] Trustee Stamford: more importantly

[1:19:45] Trustee Stamford: is how do we uh i you know i'm honestly i want to go through with this i just don't want to lose

[1:19:55] Trustee Stamford: our goal in terms of the process that will well

[1:19:59] Trustee Bernardo: there's the LTC has jurisdiction to decide what

[1:20:05] Trustee Bernardo: the bylaws ought to be here

[1:20:06] Voice 11: and

[1:20:07] Trustee Bernardo: if I may finish my points and um we don't have control I mean

[1:20:14] Trustee Bernardo: you're asking whether or not we can be sure we can't be sure what the executive committee is

[1:20:20] Trustee Bernardo: going to do. That's up to them. All we can do is what we think is best. I have trouble seeing how

[1:20:30] Trustee Bernardo: approving this change now is going to interfere with our ability to say it goes sideways because

[1:20:38] Trustee Bernardo: it gets rejected by the executive committee. Well, that just brings us back to the state we're

[1:20:43] Trustee Bernardo: already at. It doesn't create anything new. It doesn't create any big legal fights. There's

[1:20:48] Trustee Bernardo: nobody fighting this what it means is we're back to square one we're back to the status quo where

[1:20:53] Trustee Bernardo: we've got this mg zone that doesn't permit the establishment and use of telecommunication

[1:20:59] Trustee Bernardo: facilities

[1:21:00] Voice 11: and

[1:21:01] Trustee Bernardo: so the difficulty we have is we have not heard from staff any assurance

[1:21:08] Trustee Bernardo: that they could accelerate this process over the christmas period in the christmas holiday period

[1:21:16] Trustee Bernardo: it accelerate this process so that this could all be um the amendment or whatever changes are

[1:21:23] Trustee Bernardo: required to to to get those cable that cable on on the sea bottom whatever is needed to do that

[1:21:30] Trustee Bernardo: we've had no assurance that it can be done within two months by the end of january

[1:21:37] Trustee Stamford: yeah and i i

[1:21:40] Trustee Stamford: agree also we have no assurance that the company is actually going to need it by that time either

[1:21:44] Trustee Stamford: there? We don't.

[1:21:45] Trustee Stamford: There was a threat. In a way, it's a threat in the letter. And we are responding

[1:21:51] Trustee Stamford: to that threat.

[1:21:54] Trustee Bernardo: I'm not sure I would agree that it's a threat. It's a little surprising to see

[1:22:01] Trustee Bernardo: it. And we do need some clarification on that. The difficulty is, I would prefer us to get an

[1:22:10] Trustee Bernardo: answer to that question before we proceed on something like this but because we're not going

[1:22:15] Trustee Bernardo: to have a meeting between now and the end of january um yeah yeah i don't know how we deal

[1:22:25] Trustee Bernardo: with that i mean it would be preferable to get an answer yeah is it feasible for us for example

[1:22:32] Trustee Bernardo: to schedule a special meeting to deal with this issue only at which the staff would then report

[1:22:40] Trustee Bernardo: port back on what he learned from Connected Coast

[1:22:43] Trustee Bernardo: about what the heck this January, 2024 deadline's all about,

[1:22:46] Trustee Bernardo: about the zoning requirements.

[1:22:49] Trustee Bernardo: And some clarification as to why

[1:22:53] Trustee Bernardo: that email correspondence didn't refer

[1:22:56] Trustee Bernardo: to making an application or a process along those lines.

[1:23:00] Trustee Bernardo: We need more information, but we don't have it.

[1:23:05] Trustee Bernardo: I'm prepared to proceed to just get the goods delivered

[1:23:08] Trustee Bernardo: for the folks of Keats Island,

[1:23:10] Trustee Bernardo: irrespective of of those details but if we could schedule a special meeting where those details

[1:23:17] Trustee Bernardo: are then made available to us and then we can continue the deliberation and if it's necessary

[1:23:24] Trustee Bernardo: to resolve this before january 2024 we then have an opportunity at that meeting to resolve it

[1:23:30] Trustee Bernardo: uh i'd be content to deal with it that way what i just don't want to do uh is uh lose the

[1:23:37] Trustee Bernardo: opportunity or and i cannot agree with the chair said which is that's a big project and if they

[1:23:43] Trustee Bernardo: have to bypass come back later he's in effect saying well they'll do it uh no i don't want to

[1:23:49] Trustee Bernardo: put the people on keats island hostage to fortune in that respect we don't know uh you know what

[1:23:57] Trustee Bernardo: people do when they get annoyed with local governments that aren't cooperative uh so

[1:24:03] Trustee Bernardo: So what I don't want to do is not have clarity about our doing what we can to facilitate the

[1:24:13] Trustee Bernardo: project. I don't want us to not do that by the end of January if that's the real deadline and

[1:24:19] Trustee Bernardo: we're in this dilemma. I'm prepared to sort of anticipate it and just solve the problem today

[1:24:24] Trustee Bernardo: so it's a non-issue, but I'm also prepared to defer making a motion provided we schedule a

[1:24:31] Trustee Bernardo: special meeting at which is possible for me to make a

[1:24:33] Voice 12: plan if it's necessary i

[1:24:36] Trustee Stamford: you know what i

[1:24:37] Trustee Stamford: i think um i'm sorry i'm kind of jumping back and forth but i i really want to um get through this

[1:24:44] Trustee Stamford: because i know we have a whole other section to get on with um the possibility of putting us

[1:24:50] Trustee Stamford: another special meeting anytime soon is fairly remote for me um i'm going into a really busy

[1:24:56] Trustee Stamford: point I think if we can pass the letter and pass this or at least put you know

[1:25:04] Trustee Stamford: vote on the motions and and see where it takes us

[1:25:09] Voice 11: let's do it that way I move

[1:25:16] Voice 11: just

[1:25:17] Trustee Stamford: here director German have anything to add it's pertinent

[1:25:23] Voice 11: I

[1:25:26] Voice 5: was just looking

[1:25:27] Voice 5: into the chair to cue me up i can stay quiet thank

[1:25:31] Voice 11: you planner jemara um um yeah i you know

[1:25:38] Voice 11: i'm just gonna say this just seems like the tail is wagging the dog here because um this this

[1:25:51] Voice 11: project has been in

[1:25:52] Trustee Luckham: place is underway for years this company has done this stuff lots before

[1:25:56] Trustee Luckham: for. They know what the process is in terms of making an application. And I don't believe for

[1:26:03] Trustee Luckham: a minute that this project is going to be stalled as a result of this local trust committee's

[1:26:09] Trustee Luckham: ability to not make a decision. We can simply ask, as we have done as a show of sign of support

[1:26:17] Trustee Luckham: of the letter that we just passed, we could ask, if necessary, for all of the agency involved in

[1:26:24] Trustee Luckham: this and to pause on their delivery in order for the local government to fully consider

[1:26:34] Trustee Luckham: the implications of this late requirement.

[1:26:38] Trustee Luckham: This has only become obvious to us in the last two or three weeks.

[1:26:41] Trustee Luckham: And it's absurd, actually, I think, to panic in any situation.

[1:26:49] Trustee Luckham: And granted, this is a minor, I agree with that.

[1:26:52] Trustee Luckham: but I think we could be well supported by seeking staff support that's and I'm going to go to

[1:26:59] Trustee Luckham: Planner Gemratt and let's put the motion on the table let's vote on it let's move on because we've

[1:27:05] Trustee Luckham: spent a lot of time on this and we have a very big item to discuss here yet today and all of us have

[1:27:10] Trustee Luckham: other commitments today Planner Regional Planning Manager Gemratt the final word through the chair

[1:27:16] Voice 5: What staff can do is indeed follow up with the LTC and reach out to the proponent, have a conversation, suggest to them they apply as soon as possible so that we can look at what these timelines look like and suggest an RWM to expedite the application so that staff are supporting, given this conversation, in these ways to process the application as well.

[1:27:46] Voice 5: So I think an update to you makes sense, reaching out to the applicant as soon as possible and insisting, strongly encouraging them, they apply as soon as possible, given this time frame.

[1:27:58] Voice 5: And then we do what we can to expedite it.

[1:28:04] Trustee Bernardo: I very much appreciate, and I completely understand where the staff is coming from, and do understand their concerns.

[1:28:13] Trustee Bernardo: concerns but from

[1:28:15] Voice 11: everything I've heard certainly today um the path that staff

[1:28:22] Trustee Bernardo: is comfortable with

[1:28:23] Trustee Bernardo: and is used to following um isn't going to work it's not realistic in the current circumstances

[1:28:30] Trustee Bernardo: whether or not there's a January 2024 deadline or not I don't agree that it's wise or frankly fair

[1:28:40] Trustee Bernardo: for this local trust committee as a local government um to insist that all the other

[1:28:47] Trustee Bernardo: parties just wait for us when we know the people in keith silent both need and want this

[1:28:55] Trustee Bernardo: and we already have provisions for the establishment use of telecommunication utilities

[1:29:01] Trustee Bernardo: on land there are already cables that go on the sea bottom

[1:29:07] Voice 11: to key target there's nothing

[1:29:10] Voice 11: There's nothing controversial about this.

[1:29:12] Voice 11: What we've been discussing today are the formal procedures,

[1:29:18] Trustee Bernardo: but we know what the substance of this is.

[1:29:20] Trustee Bernardo: And we also know it's not realistic to wait.

[1:29:23] Trustee Bernardo: It's just not feasible to have the RWM

[1:29:25] Trustee Bernardo: as we've learned from Trustee Stamford.

[1:29:29] Trustee Bernardo: So I appreciate the comments.

[1:29:31] Trustee Bernardo: I regret that there are these fairly deep differences

[1:29:37] Trustee Bernardo: of view here, but I still feel it's important

[1:29:40] Trustee Bernardo: to make this motion and i'm going to do that now i move that section 4.1 6.1 of bylaw 78 be amended

[1:29:49] Trustee Bernardo: by one deleting the words and structures from the first line two deleting the word and from the

[1:30:00] Trustee Bernardo: end of the first bulleted line.

[1:30:02] Trustee Bernardo: Three, replacing the period in the second bulleted line

[1:30:04] Trustee Bernardo: with a semi-colon and adding the word and after it.

[1:30:07] Trustee Bernardo: And four, adding a third bulleted line

[1:30:10] Trustee Bernardo: that states the establishment and use

[1:30:12] Trustee Bernardo: of telecommunication utilities.

[1:30:15] Trustee Luckham: I second that.

[1:30:17] Trustee Luckham: Moved and seconded.

[1:30:18] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, everybody.

[1:30:20] Trustee Luckham: Any further discussion on the motion?

[1:30:21] Trustee Luckham: Do you wish to speak to the motion further, Trustee Bernardo?

[1:30:24] Voice 11: No.

[1:30:27] Voice 11: Then I'll call the vote.

[1:30:28] Voice 11: All those in favor?

[1:30:30] Voice 11: Aye.

[1:30:33] Voice 11: that's two in favor all those opposed opposed that

[1:30:38] Trustee Luckham: carries and i thank you very much for

[1:30:40] Trustee Luckham: advancing this today and um is there any further discussion on this item in the

[1:30:46] Trustee Luckham: correspondence section of our agenda all right then let us move along um you know i'm going to

[1:30:55] Trustee Luckham: suggest we have a five minute recess at uh 11 41 um unless there's some opposition to that

[1:31:03] Trustee Luckham: and then we can advance through.

[1:31:06] Trustee Luckham: I'm just having trouble getting my agenda up

[1:31:08] Trustee Luckham: for some reason, the internet issue here.

[1:31:11] Trustee Luckham: Shall we have a five minute recess

[1:31:13] Trustee Luckham: and then continue on with our agenda?

[1:31:16] Trustee Luckham: We will need to allow for a lunch recess at some point,

[1:31:19] Trustee Luckham: but let's try and get through,

[1:31:21] Trustee Luckham: at least get a start on the rest of the agenda.

[1:31:23] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, trustees.

[1:31:24] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:31:25] Trustee Luckham: We'll

[1:31:25] Voice 11: come back in five minutes, 1147.

[1:38:17] Voice 11: Okay, everybody.

[1:38:19] Voice 11: Are we close?

[1:38:29] Voice 11: Kate, are you

[1:38:30] Trustee Luckham: in the background there?

[1:38:31] Voice 11: Yeah, I am.

[1:38:32] Voice 11: My video is

[1:38:33] Trustee Stamford: not working at all now, so I don't know what's going on.

[1:38:35] Trustee Luckham: Well, I'm having some similar struggles.

[1:38:38] Trustee Luckham: And I noticed that actually, although we had trouble with our own website at the Islands Trust,

[1:38:43] Trustee Luckham: that various other people around the province are having troubles with websites.

[1:38:48] Trustee Luckham: And it makes me wonder about lots of things, including fiber optic connectivity on any island.

[1:38:55] Trustee Stamford: once we get fiber optic all this will be um a distant dark history you

[1:39:02] Trustee Luckham: need to need a cable

[1:39:03] Trustee Luckham: to feed us peter uh we've actually got a cable to feed us already and this fiber cable is being

[1:39:09] Trustee Luckham: strung from the poles as we speak it's about it's uh probably less than less than a kilometer away

[1:39:16] Trustee Luckham: from my house

[1:39:16] Trustee Bernardo: oh so the cable's good enough for you but not for keats is that how it works

[1:39:21] Trustee Luckham: no that's not how it works i was

[1:39:25] Trustee Bernardo: just kidding uh

[1:39:27] Trustee Luckham: all right so let's move on um uh so we're uh on

[1:39:32] Trustee Luckham: and uh planner jamrat what would you uh like to bring to our attention at this time

[1:39:37] Voice 5: thank you chair um i have a clarification on the resolution um if this is going outside of a normal

[1:39:44] Voice 5: bylaw review process and amendment process i'd like some clarity on what the staff direction

[1:39:50] Voice 5: is for this action for this resolution because

[1:39:53] Trustee Luckham: it's not first reading

[1:39:55] Voice 5: so I'm unclear for what

[1:39:58] Voice 5: is next steps for staff should

[1:40:01] Trustee Luckham: we just like this when we get to projects or otherwise or do we want

[1:40:06] Trustee Luckham: to continue to talk about this I really want to move along on our agenda actually sorry planner

[1:40:10] Trustee Luckham: Gemma or RPM Gemma just

[1:40:13] Voice 5: flagging it as a as a topic so so

[1:40:16] Trustee Luckham: can we just talk about that when we

[1:40:17] Trustee Luckham: get to active projects um so that we can determine how it is that we're going to schedule this work

[1:40:21] Trustee Luckham: because i totally understand that between now and christmas and the new year there's not a lot of

[1:40:26] Trustee Luckham: working hours and there's lots of other activities that you are uh involved in so appreciate that

[1:40:32] Trustee Luckham: um is that satisfactory and trustees do you have any further remarks or is that satisfactory to you

[1:40:39] Trustee Luckham: as well all right so then let us continue on with the agenda so we have our report section now

[1:40:46] Trustee Luckham: Islands Trust Conservancy report.

[1:40:49] Trustee Luckham: I'm not aware of anything at this time to report.

[1:40:54] Trustee Luckham: And so I'll just continue on.

[1:40:56] Trustee Luckham: Applications report dated November the 10th.

[1:40:59] Trustee Luckham: That's on page 19 of our agenda.

[1:41:00] Trustee Luckham: Are there any questions from the trustees

[1:41:02] Trustee Luckham: on any of those applications that are in process?

[1:41:05] Trustee Stamford: I just have a quick question.

[1:41:08] Trustee Stamford: It's more of a general one.

[1:41:10] Trustee Stamford: We've got a application that we haven't had any new

[1:41:15] Trustee Stamford: information since June 2022. How long does this type of development variance application sit

[1:41:24] Trustee Stamford: before it becomes dormant

[1:41:28] Voice 11: and they have to apply again? Through the chair,

[1:41:35] Planner McCargar: that's really

[1:41:36] Planner McCargar: up to the planner's discretion. So it looks like planner Margot Thelmeides has, I think,

[1:41:44] Planner McCargar: the application that you're referring to, which is a development permit application.

[1:41:49] Planner McCargar: So, the best way forward to be to reach out to the planner and to see it's likely that she's working behind the scenes with the applicant, and there's probably been some back and forth, but she would be able to give you more of an update.

[1:42:03] Trustee Stamford: It was more meant as a general question, you know, is there a practice of what happens after there hasn't been any work for a couple of years.

[1:42:12] Trustee Stamford: But, so that's fine. I don't need any.

[1:42:15] Trustee Stamford: Thanks.

[1:42:15] Trustee Stamford: Okay,

[1:42:17] Trustee Luckham: so is that it on applications then? So I'll continue on. Local expenses, nothing today.

[1:42:26] Trustee Luckham: Adopted policies and standing resolutions is there for information unless there's a

[1:42:30] Trustee Luckham: change that's required or desired. And if there's no show of hands, I'll continue.

[1:42:37] Trustee Luckham: First Nations activities, I'm not aware of anything to report. Are any of the trustees

[1:42:42] Trustee Luckham: is aware of anything to report there or staff nothing new

[1:42:46] Trustee Luckham: i want to acknowledge dan rogers

[1:42:51] Trustee Luckham: recommendation that that communication with the squamish first nation continue and others and

[1:42:57] Trustee Luckham: indeed we will push you with that to our best abilities so local trust committee web page

[1:43:03] Trustee Luckham: unless there's something unusual that you want to change or amend on our website that's

[1:43:07] Trustee Luckham: there and just look for a show of hands or Kate you can shout out anytime so local trust committee

[1:43:15] Trustee Luckham: meeting schedule staff report that's on page 27 this is a decision item I believe is that correct

[1:43:23] Trustee Luckham: and I'll turn to regional planning regional planner or sorry planner McCarver for that update

[1:43:31] Trustee Luckham: update, and we'll pursue that.

[1:43:32] Planner McCargar: Thanks. So this is just meeting logistics for 2024. I think it's

[1:43:38] Planner McCargar: fairly self-explanatory. The recommendation is that the following dates in 2024 are endorsed

[1:43:46] Planner McCargar: by the LTC as their meeting dates. That'd be January 30th, March 26th, May 28th, July 30th,

[1:43:54] Planner McCargar: October 1st and November 26th and if in your discussion you could also identify which meetings

[1:44:02] Planner McCargar: you would like to be held in person and which meetings you would like to be held electronic

[1:44:06] Planner McCargar: that helps staff with planning and booking venues and then just a note that there should be at least

[1:44:13] Planner McCargar: two meetings per calendar year that are held in person those are typically the ones that are

[1:44:19] Planner McCargar: on Gambier and Keats in the summer but we'll leave that up to the LTC to decide

[1:44:25] Trustee Luckham: All right, thank you. Kate Stanford, you have your hand up.

[1:44:28] Trustee Stamford: So in regards to the actual calendar meeting dates, the one that doesn't work for me is January 30th, because that's the beginning of LGLA conference in Richmond for that week.

[1:44:41] Trustee Stamford: But I can do January 29th, so I can do the day before, but not any further

[1:44:51] Voice 11: time in that week.

[1:44:57] Trustee Luckham: So maybe I'll just ask staff, are there some alternatives there in that window?

[1:45:01] Trustee Luckham: This obviously gets immensely complex when we go outside of what the chosen dates are,

[1:45:07] Trustee Luckham: because it coincides with other dates for other bodies, but obviously LGLA was not considered.

[1:45:13] Planner McCargar: Would, I believe the week prior, I think it is January 23rd,

[1:45:20] Planner McCargar: would that be an option for the LTC?

[1:45:22] Planner McCargar: see you just have

[1:45:23] Voice 3: a look real

[1:45:24] Planner McCargar: quick um

[1:45:26] Voice 3: oh

[1:45:36] Voice 11: no uh tuesday i've got all sorts of crap in that day

[1:45:39] Voice 11: um is

[1:45:43] Trustee Stamford: there any possibility of the monday the january 29th

[1:45:48] Planner McCargar: um if will is on listening in i

[1:45:52] Planner McCargar: wonder if um she could help support us in this she's got sort of the master list of

[1:45:57] Planner McCargar: everything that goes on behind the scenes and um planning

[1:46:01] Voice 7: meetings i'm really

[1:46:04] Voice 7: through the chair i'm just having a quick look at um yes the big master list and and if the ltc

[1:46:12] Voice 7: would like to have their um meeting off of the usual chosen tuesday and switch it to monday

[1:46:20] Voice 7: it doesn't look like there would monday the 29th it doesn't look like there would be

[1:46:26] Voice 7: any conflicts with any of the trustees that are on this local trust committee so if you want to

[1:46:32] Voice 7: switch to that day we can certainly do that and and maintain a similar timeline to to what we've

[1:46:38] Voice 7: currently got going so i can make that adjustment for sure

[1:46:42] Trustee Luckham: okay i'd appreciate it

[1:46:46] Trustee Luckham: awesome trustee

[1:46:48] Trustee Luckham: bernardo do you have any remarks on the proposed schedule and the proposed amendment uh i don't

[1:46:54] Voice 12: have a problem with the date

[1:46:55] Trustee Bernardo: or the dates that are proposed um including the amended one to

[1:47:00] Trustee Bernardo: accommodate trustee stanford's needs um i do have some comments i don't know if that now is the

[1:47:10] Trustee Bernardo: right time uh to talk about um the scheduling of in-person meetings um should i talk about that

[1:47:16] Trustee Bernardo: now or yeah okay uh i'm inclined to agree with uh mr rogers comment uh earlier uh or actually that

[1:47:26] Trustee Bernardo: he put in his letter that he didn't actually refer to it i don't think that much in his reference in

[1:47:30] Trustee Bernardo: his remarks today but i agreed that we're likely to get better attendance and uh better attention

[1:47:37] Trustee Bernardo: uh from our constituents by scheduling in-person meetings um to take place in north vancouver

[1:47:43] Trustee Bernardo: Vancouver, especially on dates outside of June, July and August.

[1:47:47] Trustee Bernardo: I'm aware there's a tradition of having meetings on Keats and Gambier.

[1:47:54] Trustee Bernardo: I'll be honest, I'm not quite sure how to

[1:47:56] Trustee Bernardo: square that tradition with scheduling in-person meetings in North Vancouver.

[1:48:04] Trustee Bernardo: The meeting, the community information meeting we had

[1:48:09] Trustee Bernardo: at Gibson's this year because of the Keats shoreline

[1:48:13] Trustee Bernardo: project was useful and helpful because there were issues there of great moment for the people at

[1:48:20] Trustee Bernardo: keats but if it's a regular business meeting that isn't going to engage uh constituents on keats or

[1:48:29] Trustee Bernardo: gambier uh then i think we have to ask ourselves why we're having the meeting on those islands

[1:48:35] Trustee Bernardo: i i don't know what the answer to it is i i look forward to hearing from um

[1:48:41] Trustee Bernardo: trustee stamford about that but i i i would want um us to have our meetings in north vancouver if

[1:48:49] Trustee Bernardo: we can uh if we can do it and i would think that it would be best to have on dates outside of june

[1:48:55] Trustee Bernardo: july and august because that's when we're likely to get more uh attendance i i think and attention

[1:49:03] Trustee Bernardo: to whatever issues come up in regular business now trustee stamford may have a different view

[1:49:08] Trustee Bernardo: about it because she's got that whole ocp program or plan in development over there at gambier so um

[1:49:15] Trustee Bernardo: i'll uh turn the floor over to her like to comment thank you

[1:49:19] Trustee Stamford: um through through the chair yeah um

[1:49:24] Trustee Stamford: in-person meetings in general um not really necessary on gambier but there is an expectation

[1:49:31] Trustee Stamford: of at least one in the summer and because we have our ocp project i do want to keep a meeting for

[1:49:39] Trustee Stamford: gambier in the summer months somewhere um other than that um what i find is north fan is great

[1:49:49] Trustee Stamford: um but we do tend to get more attendees from keats there than from gambier it's just a different

[1:49:57] Trustee Stamford: usage of the islands so I'm perfectly fine with just a meeting on Gambier once

[1:50:04] Trustee Stamford: sometimes through that summer period and then other than that in-person meetings on North End

[1:50:10] Trustee Stamford: and electronic meetings when considered appropriate.

[1:50:16] Trustee Bernardo: Can I ask Trustee Stamford a

[1:50:19] Trustee Bernardo: question Mr. Chair? Yes please. You've got plenty of experience with these with these meetings and

[1:50:27] Trustee Bernardo: And I've noticed certainly that there and this discussion has come up in other contexts

[1:50:36] Trustee Bernardo: that in many local trust areas, the communities are very keen on having in-person meetings

[1:50:43] Trustee Bernardo: and they happen with some frequency.

[1:50:46] Trustee Bernardo: That's really not the tradition or the culture, if you can use that word, up here in the

[1:50:53] Trustee Bernardo: Howe Sound area.

[1:50:55] Trustee Bernardo: Electronic meetings seem to be working very well and very efficiently.

[1:50:59] Trustee Bernardo: for uh our purposes so my question for trustee stamford is uh in her view what's the right

[1:51:07] Trustee Bernardo: balance in terms of between having in-person versus um uh electronic meetings um i enjoy

[1:51:16] Trustee Bernardo: the in-person meetings it's great to be able to actually see constituents and talk to them but

[1:51:21] Trustee Bernardo: the overhead in terms of hassle and expense in terms of bringing staff over and

[1:51:28] Trustee Bernardo: chair like um um sometimes you got to wonder whether it's worth it but anyhow you've got

[1:51:36] Trustee Bernardo: the experience i'm asking the question what's the right balance between electronic and

[1:51:39] Trustee Bernardo: in your view electronic and in-person meetings um

[1:51:44] Trustee Stamford: it i think electronic meetings are working

[1:51:47] Trustee Stamford: very well for our particular area i can't say that that should be the practice across the trust

[1:51:53] Trustee Stamford: But because of our very particular geology, geography, and the way our population uses the islands, they are more accommodating to the idea of being able to access electronically.

[1:52:08] Trustee Stamford: electronically. So given that, if we have a special situation, a concern, or anything that's

[1:52:16] Trustee Stamford: special, yes, we should make every effort to have an in-person meeting to bring in the place that

[1:52:23] Trustee Stamford: most accommodates the people that are affected by that particular issue. But other than that,

[1:52:30] Trustee Stamford: um you know i i'm like you i i like the in-person meeting in terms of getting things done there

[1:52:38] Trustee Stamford: and and seeing the eyeballs but um we don't get a lot of people um it's just not that kind of

[1:52:46] Trustee Stamford: engagement with this specific ltc um i do still want to keep that um the gambier summer meeting

[1:52:57] Trustee Stamford: for that hope that we can attract an audience other than my dog so

[1:53:03] Trustee Bernardo: i take it then

[1:53:05] Trustee Bernardo: you would prefer the the meeting that's um proposed in the schedule for july um you would

[1:53:16] Trustee Bernardo: you would want to reserve that for an in-person meeting in gambier yes if possible and uh what

[1:53:24] Trustee Bernardo: What about other in-person meetings, say, in Vancouver?

[1:53:28] Trustee Bernardo: Like, I'm prepared, unless an issue comes up of moment to meet Keats Island, I'm inclined

[1:53:39] Trustee Bernardo: to simply either go electronic or have an in-person meeting in North Vancouver, but

[1:53:43] Trustee Bernardo: just waive the idea of having a meeting on Keats Island, unless it's necessary, and we'll

[1:53:51] Trustee Bernardo: just forego that.

[1:53:52] Trustee Bernardo: that and as you say i mean sometimes i mean the meeting we had the community information meeting

[1:53:57] Trustee Bernardo: we had gibson's was in effect a special meeting and if it's really urgent i suppose we can

[1:54:02] Trustee Bernardo: schedule around those lines i don't see that being a particular issue at this time yeah

[1:54:09] Trustee Stamford: just so just

[1:54:10] Trustee Stamford: a caveat and and you know zoom is fairly new for us but um if we are looking at a special meeting

[1:54:17] Trustee Stamford: we want it in person and we want it in North Van,

[1:54:20] Trustee Stamford: we need as much time as possible

[1:54:21] Trustee Stamford: for staff to find a location.

[1:54:24] Trustee Stamford: So that Vancouver, West Van, North Van,

[1:54:28] Trustee Stamford: it's not something we can easily say,

[1:54:31] Trustee Stamford: okay, we want a meeting there soon.

[1:54:33] Trustee Bernardo: Understood.

[1:54:34] Trustee Bernardo: It's like, yeah, we need a long lead time.

[1:54:37] Trustee Bernardo: If we feel the urgency to have an in-person meeting

[1:54:41] Trustee Bernardo: to address some issue we haven't anticipated

[1:54:43] Trustee Bernardo: that requires it, I appreciate the point that

[1:54:47] Trustee Bernardo: the logistics are not trivial yeah

[1:54:50] Trustee Stamford: okay so other than that i'm good

[1:54:51] Trustee Bernardo: okay uh are there any meetings

[1:54:54] Trustee Bernardo: that you think we should have we've got july 30th on gambier uh in mind um i do think it would be

[1:55:05] Trustee Bernardo: useful to have at least one other um in-person meeting um and as i say uh mr rogers point that

[1:55:13] Trustee Bernardo: it's pretty effective when you do it north vancouver um should we designate as of today

[1:55:21] Trustee Bernardo: another date or dates for in-person meetings in north vancouver uh i'm inclined to think either

[1:55:27] Trustee Bernardo: october 1st or november

[1:55:29] Voice 11: 26th um october 1st

[1:55:36] Trustee Stamford: i'm thinking weather as well for um so as earlier in

[1:55:42] Trustee Stamford: the year or a spring or a fall so um well

[1:55:47] Trustee Bernardo: we could do march um 6th march 26th we could do that in

[1:55:54] Trustee Bernardo: person and that way we spaced them out a bit you know from one in march one in july as opposed to

[1:56:00] Trustee Bernardo: having one in july and then the next meeting very next meeting also being in person i think that

[1:56:05] Trustee Stamford: that would um that would certainly work all

[1:56:09] Trustee Bernardo: right so maybe that would

[1:56:10] Trustee Bernardo: be

[1:56:11] Trustee Luckham: great yeah okay

[1:56:13] Trustee Bernardo: okay um do we need so we need a motion for this yes okay

[1:56:19] Trustee Bernardo: do

[1:56:22] Voice 11: you want me to do it

[1:56:22] Trustee Bernardo: yeah you do it

[1:56:23] Voice 11: i'm the

[1:56:26] Trustee Stamford: worst at this um i move that the gambier island local trust committee

[1:56:32] Trustee Stamford: um schedule its regular business meetings on the following dates in 2024

[1:56:41] Trustee Stamford: 24, January 29th, March 26th, May 28th, July 30th, October 1st, and November 26th, and that

[1:56:53] Trustee Stamford: the March 26th meeting be held in person in North Vancouver, and that other meetings

[1:57:06] Trustee Stamford: be electronic except for July 30th which is in person in on Gambier Island I know

[1:57:17] Trustee Stamford: that's awkward Diane but that's what you get it

[1:57:23] Trustee Bernardo: does the job because it's clear

[1:57:26] Trustee Bernardo: enough I second the motion okay

[1:57:30] Trustee Luckham: Diane you've got those dates and are you

[1:57:33] Trustee Luckham: you completely clear on Kate's? Yes, I am. Thank you. Somebody's singing.

[1:57:40] Trustee Luckham: Sorry. Trustee Bernardo

[1:57:44] Trustee Luckham: has seconded the motion. Thank you. Is there any further discussion? All those in favor,

[1:57:49] Trustee Luckham: please raise your hands electronically, physically. Excellent. And so that carries.

[1:57:56] Trustee Luckham: I'm looking at the time and contemplating, can we advance through the work program items here?

[1:58:02] Trustee Luckham: and then i think we should honestly have a lunch break for everybody's benefit and then we can dig

[1:58:06] Trustee Luckham: into the main uh project here major project for gambier and the project for keats after the lunch

[1:58:12] Trustee Luckham: break uh planner mccargar we've

[1:58:15] Planner McCargar: got uh planner zupanak on the line right now and she was going

[1:58:20] Planner McCargar: to give a verbal update on on

[1:58:23] Planner McCargar: the uh major project oh

[1:58:26] Trustee Luckham: i see okay so that's just a verbal update so

[1:58:28] Trustee Luckham: So quite likely then we could get through those three things,

[1:58:31] Trustee Luckham: the work program and the major projects, and then go for lunch.

[1:58:34] Trustee Luckham: Does that sound reasonable?

[1:58:35] Voice 3: Yeah.

[1:58:36] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:58:37] Trustee Luckham: So then let's proceed.

[1:58:38] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Sonia, for joining us.

[1:58:39] Trustee Luckham: I see you there.

[1:58:41] Trustee Luckham: And we'll do the active and future projects first,

[1:58:44] Trustee Luckham: and then we'll come to that.

[1:58:45] Trustee Luckham: I'm just a sequential kind of guy, and so it works.

[1:58:49] Trustee Luckham: So active projects report dated November the 10th.

[1:58:53] Trustee Luckham: I think we need to look at that and consider the motion that was

[1:58:57] Trustee Luckham: was passed earlier with respect to that and would appreciate any input from staff about their

[1:59:02] Trustee Luckham: capacity

[1:59:03] Voice 11: at this time. Are

[1:59:10] Planner McCargar: you looking for discussion around the motion that was brought up

[1:59:15] Planner McCargar: earlier

[1:59:16] Trustee Luckham: and how that

[1:59:16] Planner McCargar: will get incorporated?

[1:59:18] Trustee Luckham: Yeah I think that begs the question right is that work

[1:59:20] Trustee Luckham: that's already scheduled this would be additional work that would need to be slid in here so I think

[1:59:27] Trustee Luckham: it does need to be on the projects list um and so what would your recommendation be i see uh regional

[1:59:34] Trustee Luckham: planning manager general has come online um

[1:59:38] Voice 5: through the chair if i may um there were yeah

[1:59:42] Voice 5: going back to the the resolution that was made some clarity for staff action on that and how

[1:59:48] Voice 5: that fits into the the work program for gambier as well as considering um staff resources so

[1:59:56] Voice 5: So the bit that we don't know is the information from.

[2:00:00] Voice 5: connected coast on their timelines that would inform the changes to the bylaw and also unclear

[2:00:08] Voice 5: needing some clarity from the ltc on what the next steps would be following this resolution

[2:00:14] Voice 5: so we can put that into a work program okay

[2:00:19] Trustee Luckham: and then i'd like to go to trustee bernardo but if

[2:00:21] Trustee Luckham: you don't mind i'll just ask a question presumably if the applicant makes it completes an application

[2:00:27] Trustee Luckham: and sends it into us, then it would end up on the applications log and would start to work in

[2:00:33] Trustee Luckham: parallel with projects.

[2:00:36] Voice 5: That's right, because with applications that are submitted,

[2:00:40] Voice 5: staff have that direction to process the application.

[2:00:44] Trustee Luckham: And then we can prioritize that

[2:00:46] Trustee Luckham: in the list of applications, per se, accordingly.

[2:00:52] Voice 5: Correct. And some clarity of how that would work

[2:00:55] Voice 5: with this resolution if staff are to proceed with the zoning changes to and what that means analysis

[2:01:04] Voice 5: or um straight to first readings of a lot of the bylaw well

[2:01:10] Trustee Luckham: i think the intention is just to make

[2:01:11] Trustee Luckham: those amendments so let me go to trustee

[2:01:14] Voice 11: bernardo he's got his hand thank you um

[2:01:18] Trustee Bernardo: given the tenor of

[2:01:20] Trustee Bernardo: the discussion um that we just had about this and i there's no need to have to go back and repeat

[2:01:26] Trustee Bernardo: ourselves. I think it was reasonably clear that the purpose of the resolution is to

[2:01:34] Trustee Bernardo: just go straight ahead and amend bylaw 78 in

[2:01:41] Voice 11: those particular sections of it

[2:01:46] Trustee Bernardo: just to change it and that's it. We don't need any further analysis. We conducted the analysis

[2:01:51] Trustee Bernardo: in our debate today and the conclusion we effectively reached was this is that

[2:01:57] Trustee Bernardo: straightforward it's a straightforward matter so uh as far as i'm concerned uh on in terms of

[2:02:03] Trustee Bernardo: the bylaw uh it's like do whatever it takes uh to make that effective and if you need anything more

[2:02:12] Trustee Bernardo: from the ltc other than this resolution let us know and we'll make it happen but just make it

[2:02:17] Trustee Bernardo: happen uh as promptly as possible um there's a reference i'm getting a little confused here

[2:02:25] Trustee Bernardo: by this reference to an application and I'd appreciate some information from the staff about

[2:02:33] Trustee Bernardo: once and before I do that by the way those outstanding questions of Connected Coasts

[2:02:39] Trustee Bernardo: still need to be answered and we would appreciate an answer but with the change to the bylaw they

[2:02:45] Trustee Bernardo: have less urgency obviously but we still need to have those answers but they're not going to

[2:02:51] Trustee Bernardo: change the fact that we passed that bylaw uh or they changed the bylaw um my question is um

[2:02:58] Trustee Bernardo: i've heard these references by the chair about connected coast making application with this

[2:03:04] Trustee Bernardo: change to the bylaw uh what further application would actually be necessary

[2:03:09] Voice 11: if any by connected

[2:03:11] Voice 11: coast flanagan region flanagan you want to

[2:03:21] Trustee Luckham: answer that um

[2:03:23] Voice 5: through the chair there's a couple um

[2:03:25] Voice 5: items I'd like to provide for the LTC's consideration. Some of this information

[2:03:33] Voice 5: staff won't have until we're able to connect with the proponent or Connected Coast if we're

[2:03:40] Voice 5: going to call them by their name. So that information we may not get until we connect

[2:03:47] Voice 5: with them to understand any sort of timelines should they wish to submit an application.

[2:03:53] Voice 5: So I can't, unfortunately, give you a time frame for that.

[2:03:58] Voice 5: If the LTC has given direction to bring forward a bylaw for first reading, I would like to suggest that the resolution be made with that clarity, because as it stands, I don't believe that's as part of the resolution.

[2:04:16] Voice 5: I'm also wanting to flag that should any of this information need to go to the executive committee as per our normal bylaw process, that may be a cause that it would cause some delay because we've skipped some steps in our adoption process.

[2:04:38] Voice 5: process. So that's the clarity I'm looking for is if you don't want staff to do any analysis,

[2:04:46] Voice 5: that's what I'm understanding by bringing this bylaw forward for first reading.

[2:04:50] Trustee Bernardo: So what do you need? Do you have language available to us off the shelf to advance

[2:04:57] Trustee Bernardo: the resolution we just made to bring it to the first reading stage? Because what I'm hearing

[2:05:04] Trustee Bernardo: is that you'd like a resolution at the LTC

[2:05:07] Trustee Bernardo: that the change that was approved in that last resolution

[2:05:14] Trustee Bernardo: be fashioned as an amendment

[2:05:17] Trustee Bernardo: that meets the formalities of first reading.

[2:05:21] Trustee Bernardo: Is that right?

[2:05:22] Voice 5: So through the chair, what I'm calling out

[2:05:26] Voice 5: is that the resolution hasn't left some direction for staff.

[2:05:31] Voice 5: So if it's your intent to give us direction

[2:05:34] Voice 5: to prepare the bylaw for first reading then we can do that and that would be clear clear as part

[2:05:41] Voice 5: of the resolution because right now we're sitting here with a resolution i'm

[2:05:45] Trustee Bernardo: not sure what to do

[2:05:46] Trustee Bernardo: with it i can tell you that was certainly my intent and uh you'll have to hear from trustee

[2:05:51] Trustee Bernardo: stamford and she'll say what she her intent was thank

[2:05:55] Trustee Stamford: you oh yeah but i i understand we need a

[2:05:58] Trustee Stamford: motion so oh yeah um i what we're asking for is for requesting staff to prioritize

[2:06:07] Trustee Stamford: motion xyz whatever motion number it is um and to bring it to prepare it for first reading

[2:06:21] Trustee Stamford: at the soonest possible opportunity is that the kind of direction you're

[2:06:28] Trustee Stamford: looking for through

[2:06:30] Voice 5: the chair yes

[2:06:31] Trustee Stamford: yeah Diane was that emotion that you can read

[2:06:37] Trustee Stamford: out to me on

[2:06:40] Trustee Bernardo: the screen and that's probably the best way of okay

[2:06:44] Voice 11: I can see

[2:06:45] Voice 11: it now

[2:06:45] Trustee Bernardo: okay perhaps we can just sort of craft this on the fly with the systems

[2:06:49] Trustee Bernardo: from the staff to make sure it has everything they need in it and um and then somebody can move it

[2:06:56] Trustee Stamford: um so motion i don't um we usually have a motion number added to it afterwards um um

[2:07:03] Trustee Stamford: might

[2:07:04] Trustee Luckham: i just suggest that move this along um that the uh ltc um uh take the amendments to a section

[2:07:17] Trustee Luckham: and advance a draft bylaw for

[2:07:22] Voice 11: first reading.

[2:07:26] Voice 11: Ask staff to bylaw 78.

[2:07:33] Voice 11: So are you saying the motion should read

[2:07:38] Trustee Bernardo: that staff

[2:07:40] Voice 11: is requested to advance?

[2:07:46] Voice 11: Amendments to bylaw 78 as proposed at the meeting

[2:07:55] Voice 11: meeting of uh November the 21st uh as resolved yes as resolved yeah perfect

[2:08:12] Voice 14: and

[2:08:23] Voice 11: regional planning

[2:08:24] Voice 11: Jamrat does that does that do the job um for the minute taker can you read that as a motion

[2:08:35] Voice 11: how it stands okay

[2:08:38] Voice 4: uh that staff is requested to advance amendments to bylaw 78 as resolved

[2:08:44] Voice 4: at the meeting of November 21st and

[2:08:49] Voice 11: bring forward for first reading and

[2:08:53] Voice 4: bring forward for first

[2:08:54] Voice 4: reading through

[2:08:56] Voice 5: the chair that provides clarity for what staff would need to do okay

[2:09:02] Voice 11: I'm willing

[2:09:04] Voice 11: to move that okay thank you trustee

[2:09:07] Trustee Luckham: Stanford is there a seconder

[2:09:09] Trustee Bernardo: um doesn't the mover have

[2:09:11] Trustee Bernardo: to formally read it out loud oh

[2:09:13] Voice 11: sure I need it again then I move that the

[2:09:24] Trustee Stamford: gambler on local

[2:09:25] Trustee Stamford: trust committee request staff to advance amendments to bylaw number 78 as resolved

[2:09:30] Trustee Stamford: at the november 21st ltc meeting and bring forward for first reading i second the motion

[2:09:37] Trustee Luckham: excellent thank you trustee bernardo and thank you for keeping us straight

[2:09:41] Trustee Luckham: um any further discussion on the motion all those in favor aye any opposed one opposed and i just

[2:09:53] Trustee Luckham: don't like the process we're skipping process and i want to respect that we have process for reasons

[2:09:58] Trustee Luckham: but that said i support the motion as uh as advanced by the ltc so that carries um anything

[2:10:08] Trustee Luckham: else now with respect to the attic projects list dated november the 10th that's before us

[2:10:15] Trustee Luckham: um it does strike me planner general that this would need to be added to the projects list and

[2:10:21] Trustee Luckham: prioritized accordingly is that correct through

[2:10:26] Voice 5: the chair um and i'll also like to confirm with

[2:10:31] Voice 5: planner mccarger um yes that's what it sounds like to me is this is trumping all of the active

[2:10:37] Voice 5: projects right now can we just not ever use that word sure so what we're hearing from the ltc is

[2:10:47] Voice 5: that this project will be number one at the top of the list.

[2:10:52] Voice 5: Eek!

[2:10:55] Trustee Bernardo: Well, that's not as forbidding as it sounds

[2:10:57] Trustee Bernardo: because it's actually pretty straightforward.

[2:11:01] Voice 14: I

[2:11:02] Trustee Bernardo: mean, we're not asking staff, you know.

[2:11:05] Trustee Stamford: I get it. Don't worry.

[2:11:06] Trustee Bernardo: To the

[2:11:07] Trustee Bernardo: extent that we're offending staff,

[2:11:09] Trustee Bernardo: we're telling staff that it's okay.

[2:11:11] Trustee Bernardo: You don't need to look into this one.

[2:11:13] Trustee Bernardo: We got it covered.

[2:11:14] Trustee Bernardo: I get it.

[2:11:15] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah.

[2:11:16] Trustee Luckham: so okay

[2:11:18] Trustee Bernardo: can i get

[2:11:18] Trustee Luckham: a motion to place that on the active projects list and advance it to the

[2:11:23] Trustee Luckham: number one position yeah

[2:11:26] Trustee Bernardo: i move oh gosh

[2:11:30] Trustee Bernardo: i move that the um

[2:11:35] Voice 11: advancement of the amendment to bylaw 78 approved on november 21st

[2:11:46] Voice 11: be designated

[2:11:47] Voice 11: the local trust

[2:11:51] Voice 11: area's top priority

[2:11:53] Voice 11: for staff

[2:11:57] Voice 11: work. On their projects

[2:12:00] Voice 11: list? Yeah, staff projects list.

[2:12:03] Voice 11: Thank you.

[2:12:05] Voice 11: I second that. Okay.

[2:12:08] Voice 11: It's actually the

[2:12:08] Trustee Luckham: LTC projects list, but

[2:12:10] Trustee Luckham: it's a minor

[2:12:12] Trustee Luckham: technicality. Diane,

[2:12:15] Trustee Luckham: you've captured that?

[2:12:18] Voice 4: Yes. Should I put LTC projects

[2:12:20] Voice 4: list? I think that would be correct.

[2:12:22] Voice 4: I agree.

[2:12:24] Voice 11: That's what I meant.

[2:12:26] Trustee Luckham: All right. So that's moved by Trustee Bernard. Do I have a seconder?

[2:12:30] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I seconded it.

[2:12:31] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Thank you. So that's moved and seconded accordingly. So any further discussion?

[2:12:37] Trustee Luckham: No.

[2:12:37] Trustee Luckham: I'll call for the vote. All those in favor?

[2:12:41] Voice 11: Aye.

[2:12:41] Trustee Luckham: And that carries unanimously. Thank you very much. Okay. Is there anything else that we need to discuss on the active projects list at this time?

[2:12:52] Voice 11: No.

[2:12:53] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:12:54] Trustee Luckham: Okay. And then how about the future projects list? Anything there that needs to be discussed

[2:12:59] Trustee Luckham: today? Anybody? No. Okay. So then let us go to the verbal update at 13.1 of our agenda,

[2:13:08] Trustee Luckham: local trust committee projects, major project Gambier Island, official CUNY plan,

[2:13:12] Trustee Luckham: language bylaw review. And Sonia Zupanek, I do believe that you have joined us here today.

[2:13:17] Trustee Luckham: Nice to see you. Thank you very much for being here. And over to you for your verbal report.

[2:13:22] Trustee Luckham: Thank

[2:13:22] Voice 2: you. I had emailed this morning in the event that I wasn't able to catch you in your agenda process, but we just concluded another meeting with Squamish First Nations staff from the Rights and Title Department, specifically with their archaeology staff.

[2:13:38] Voice 2: So we've had a number of meetings to date. Just to give you a quick update, we've discussed shorelines, docks, climate action, archaeology, forest protection, and ecosystem stewardship.

[2:13:53] Voice 2: So now we are making headway. I have a small mountain of documents and resources that I have been pointed in the direction of from the staff that I'm going through in terms of identifying specific policy and regulatory options that will coincide with the frameworks that the nation is currently encouraging local government neighbors to utilize.

[2:14:15] Voice 2: So we have a number of meetings left for the remainder of this year. We're going into middle of December, and I can provide you with an update early in the new year as to next steps. I'll be working with the staff to prepare a what we've heard summary document and hoping that that'll be advanced to their advisory board in the new year.

[2:14:38] Voice 2: so if you have any questions now or in the future as they come up you can just email me

[2:14:43] Voice 2: and if there's any members of the community that want to reach out to the project planner you can

[2:14:48] Voice 2: give them my contact information as well there's not much more to share at this point until we

[2:14:53] Voice 2: provide you with some actual recommendations in the new year thanks okay

[2:15:00] Trustee Luckham: thank you planner

[2:15:02] Trustee Luckham: Zupanak, that's really great to hear. This is fantastic work that you're doing and fully

[2:15:08] Trustee Luckham: appreciate the mountain of documents that you have to go through, but really appreciate this

[2:15:13] Trustee Luckham: good work that you're undertaking on the local trust committee's behalf.

[2:15:18] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Stanford, over to you.

[2:15:20] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you for this, Sonia. First a comment,

[2:15:24] Trustee Stamford: And then a question that I was speaking to Chris August yesterday, and he was very specific about his excitement and understanding of the work that's being done on Gambier.

[2:15:39] Trustee Stamford: So it was very encouraging, brief, but encouraging conversation with, I'm not quite sure what his title is with Squamish, but he's a person that has quite a bit of activity on the Sunshine Coast as well as with the Squamish Nation.

[2:15:58] Trustee Stamford: And we will see more activity with the Squamish Nation in a wider sense.

[2:16:04] Trustee Stamford: So this all fits into the bigger picture and I really appreciate it.

[2:16:08] Trustee Stamford: I noticed you mentioned the term ecosystem stewardship.

[2:16:15] Trustee Stamford: Is there any definition of that?

[2:16:19] Trustee Stamford: Because we didn't specifically outline that in the original targeted OCP.

[2:16:26] Trustee Stamford: I know that the Squamish had requested it be expanded.

[2:16:29] Trustee Stamford: I just don't remember seeing that term before.

[2:16:32] Trustee Stamford: So I'd be

[2:16:33] Trustee Stamford: interested to know what their understanding of that is

[2:16:37] Trustee Stamford: and how they see that coming into our OCP.

[2:16:41] Voice 2: Sure.

[2:16:42] Voice 2: So just firstly, Chris August is the manager

[2:16:44] Voice 2: of the Rights and Title Department.

[2:16:46] Voice 11: Yeah, great.

[2:16:47] Voice 2: And so all his staff are the staff

[2:16:49] Voice 2: that have been appointed to work with us

[2:16:54] Voice 2: from their different topic areas and specialty.

[2:16:58] Voice 2: So the ecosystem protection reference, sorry,

[2:17:02] Voice 2: is the actual description of one of the staff members' jobs.

[2:17:06] Voice 2: jobs so that wasn't accurate that was her role um okay sorry so um she's been tasked to discuss

[2:17:17] Voice 2: forest stewardship streams shorelines and um watersheds with me specifically yeah so we're

[2:17:27] Voice 2: still on track with the topics that the ltc's endorsed and then the two additional um climate

[2:17:33] Voice 2: Climate Action and Sustainable Solutions.

[2:17:37] Trustee Stamford: Oh, okay.

[2:17:38] Voice 2: Yeah.

[2:17:39] Voice 2: Yeah,

[2:17:39] Trustee Stamford: I thought this bar was the one that they had added.

[2:17:42] Voice 2: Streamside and Climate Action Sustainable Solutions.

[2:17:45] Voice 2: Correct.

[2:17:45] Voice 2: Yeah.

[2:17:46] Trustee Stamford: Super.

[2:17:46] Trustee Stamford: Okay, thanks.

[2:17:48] Voice 2: You're welcome.

[2:17:51] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:17:51] Trustee Luckham: Any further questions on the report?

[2:17:57] Trustee Luckham: Comments?

[2:17:57] Trustee Luckham: No?

[2:17:57] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:17:58] Trustee Luckham: Excellent.

[2:17:58] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you for joining us today.

[2:18:00] Trustee Luckham: I appreciate it.

[2:18:02] Trustee Luckham: So let us go for our break.

[2:18:03] Trustee Luckham: it's almost 1230 so let's say we're going to come back at one o'clock if

[2:18:07] Trustee Luckham: that's all right with everybody and we'll dig into the Keats shoreline

[2:18:14] Trustee Luckham: protection project when we return thanks everybody

[2:18:18] Voice 11: for a good morning

[2:52:07] Voice 11: hi there chair luckham okay how's the weather

[2:52:11] Trustee Luckham: up on uh gambier today well

[2:52:14] Trustee Stamford: we just have to put the

[2:52:15] Trustee Stamford: fire on it suddenly i think winter is here it has come

[2:52:20] Voice 11: how about you i'm in victoria

[2:52:24] Voice 11: it was really cold here last night okay

[2:52:30] Trustee Luckham: and trusty banana how's the weather out on

[2:52:32] Trustee Bernardo: keats well i was just up at keats uh

[2:52:36] Trustee Bernardo: uh last week and uh it was um it was lovely it was sunny it was nice but um our place is

[2:52:43] Trustee Bernardo: north facing so it was actually very cold you don't get a lot of light out there you

[2:52:48] Trustee Bernardo: hop in the boat go over to gibson suddenly it's you know five degrees warmer it sure feels like

[2:52:54] Trustee Bernardo: you know okay

[2:52:56] Trustee Luckham: okay well this brings us to uh uh item 13.2 page 32 of our agenda package

[2:53:05] Trustee Luckham: The minor project keeps shoreline protection report.

[2:53:10] Trustee Luckham: We have a staff report here.

[2:53:12] Trustee Luckham: Marlis, do you want to start us off and help us remember where we're at in this project?

[2:53:19] Trustee Luckham: And then we'll have the conversation with the trustees to try and advance this.

[2:53:23] Planner McCargar: Sure.

[2:53:24] Planner McCargar: Sounds good.

[2:53:25] Planner McCargar: So the report before you outlines what staff have identified as the remaining larger issues to be discussed.

[2:53:32] Planner McCargar: And those were identified at previous meetings, but we didn't get through them all.

[2:53:37] Planner McCargar: So there's, you'll see those highlighted in the staff report, as well as an amended bylaws included in attachment two, with changes proposed by staff, changes proposed by Trustee Bernardo, and those changes that were endorsed at the last LTC meeting.

[2:53:55] Planner McCargar: So I understand that it might be a little bit confusing, but I didn't know how else to do it.

[2:54:00] Planner McCargar: so we color-coded. The red changes are those proposed by staff, the purple changes are those

[2:54:06] Planner McCargar: proposed by Trustee Bernardo, and the yellow highlighted changes are those that have been

[2:54:11] Planner McCargar: endorsed by the LTC. Staff note that the most recent changes and comments provided by Trustee

[2:54:16] Planner McCargar: Bernardo, the ones in the purple text, have not been run through an internal planning analysis,

[2:54:21] Planner McCargar: nor have they been through an internal legal review. Planning staff analysis provides an

[2:54:26] Planner McCargar: opportunity to apply best practices ensure consistency with the ocp trust council policies

[2:54:33] Planner McCargar: evaluate whether the changes are substantial enough to warrant a re-referral to agencies and

[2:54:38] Planner McCargar: first nations so that hasn't been done for the purple changes that you see in attachment to and

[2:54:46] Planner McCargar: staff are really looking for clear direction from the ltc on what proposed amendments they would

[2:54:52] Planner McCargar: like to endorse depending on what amendments get endorsed by the LTC then staff may recommend

[2:55:00] Planner McCargar: further analysis and legal review but it really depends partly on the discussion here today and

[2:55:06] Planner McCargar: if the staff direction is to look through the planning and really give a planning analysis on

[2:55:14] Planner McCargar: some of the purple changes that you see or whether the LTC is going to choose to just

[2:55:22] Planner McCargar: endorse the staff changes or a combination of the two. However, that's going to look,

[2:55:27] Planner McCargar: yeah, staff really needs some clear direction. And then at the next stage, the next time this

[2:55:33] Planner McCargar: bylaw is brought forward, it would be a sort of a final copy with all the changes incorporated

[2:55:40] Planner McCargar: that the LTC would then give a second reading as amended.

[2:55:49] Voice 11: Okay, so thank you.

[2:55:51] Trustee Luckham: Are there any questions from the trustees before we start?

[2:55:53] Trustee Luckham: And then my question is,

[2:55:55] Trustee Luckham: is how would you like to proceed with this

[2:55:58] Trustee Luckham: to get to that place that Planner McCargo

[2:56:03] Trustee Luckham: has suggested we could get to?

[2:56:05] Trustee Luckham: Back to you.

[2:56:06] Trustee Luckham: um

[2:56:07] Trustee Stamford: can i um what i'm thinking is we don't need a lot of explanation for the bigger picture

[2:56:17] Trustee Stamford: i'm hoping we can just go to the points um as as they come up um especially points that

[2:56:26] Trustee Stamford: have commentary beside them um generally i'm i'm okay with the the changes as proposed

[2:56:33] Trustee Stamford: proposed um and then if we do come across something um that we want to endorse that

[2:56:41] Trustee Stamford: it done by specific is it that's my question should be done by specific motion each time

[2:56:47] Trustee Stamford: or do many do we want to record all the the changes and then make one motion at the end

[2:56:53] Trustee Stamford: that endorses those particular changes okay

[2:56:59] Trustee Luckham: well that's a good question i guess it all depends on

[2:57:02] Trustee Luckham: or how deep we get into it.

[2:57:04] Trustee Luckham: Ideally, it would be done easily.

[2:57:06] Trustee Luckham: It's a matter of keeping track of it.

[2:57:09] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Bernardo, what do you perceive here?

[2:57:14] Trustee Bernardo: First, I think the way staff has set up

[2:57:17] Trustee Bernardo: this red line version with a variety of colors

[2:57:20] Trustee Bernardo: and everything is actually quite helpful.

[2:57:24] Trustee Bernardo: It's gonna make it easier for us to go from point to point

[2:57:27] Trustee Bernardo: and to recognize who's saying what

[2:57:29] Trustee Bernardo: and to examine what the differences are

[2:57:32] Trustee Bernardo: and resolve them um and plan mccarver's comment about legal review and consideration of in the

[2:57:40] Trustee Bernardo: need potentially for further first nations consultation those are all things that um

[2:57:47] Trustee Bernardo: certainly are unobjectionable or they're you'll appreciate this mr chair i mean they're part of

[2:57:53] Trustee Bernardo: the process i mean they have to get done or they should be done so uh wherever we land at the end

[2:58:01] Trustee Bernardo: of this process in terms of whatever changes to the bylaw that the LTC supports, I would expect

[2:58:08] Trustee Bernardo: that the next stage would be to follow.

[2:58:11] Voice 12: This is a different situation. We have the time to follow

[2:58:15] Voice 12: the proper process and we can do that and we should do

[2:58:18] Trustee Bernardo: that. The challenge here is resolving

[2:58:20] Trustee Bernardo: on what the LTC thinks this bylaw in its judgment ought to look like subject to appropriate

[2:58:27] Trustee Bernardo: appropriate subsequent reviews so with that uh uh the red line i think the most efficient thing

[2:58:36] Trustee Bernardo: is actually to go through that red line uh item by item uh the thing is there's a number of

[2:58:42] Trustee Bernardo: outstanding points that remain from a memo like most of those points can actually be done uh

[2:58:48] Trustee Bernardo: accurately by going through an item by item review of the red line because it actually has

[2:58:55] Trustee Bernardo: as most of the changes I'm proposing.

[2:58:58] Trustee Bernardo: Three of the proposed changes though,

[2:59:01] Trustee Bernardo: are in my view, extremely material

[2:59:03] Trustee Bernardo: at the level of principle.

[2:59:07] Trustee Bernardo: Initially, my thought was,

[2:59:09] Trustee Bernardo: we probably ought to deal with them upfront first,

[2:59:13] Trustee Bernardo: because I need to be honest with you all.

[2:59:15] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, as far as I'm concerned,

[2:59:16] Trustee Bernardo: a great deal turns on that outcome.

[2:59:20] Trustee Bernardo: come but you know trustee um stamford's uh suggestion um we could advise and understand

[2:59:29] Trustee Bernardo: it correctly i think she's suggesting that we just simply go start with the red line and just

[2:59:33] Trustee Bernardo: work our way until we hit some of the major outstanding points that require fuller discussion

[2:59:38] Trustee Bernardo: and then we deal with them that way i can do that as well but just so you know uh the three points

[2:59:45] Trustee Bernardo: that i i think that are crucial are to finish up our discussion and resolve the repair and

[2:59:49] Trustee Bernardo: maintenance exemption, that we deal with staff suggested exemption for the repair

[2:59:53] Trustee Bernardo: or replacement of septic fields, and that we deal with my suggested exemption, which is

[3:00:00] Trustee Bernardo: not reflected in the red line but is in the memo that my suggested new exemption to allow

[3:00:07] Trustee Bernardo: uh similar alterations to the repair and replacement issue um uh sorry uh to the with

[3:00:15] Trustee Bernardo: respect to septic fields like do have a similar exemption uh with respect to alterations or build

[3:00:20] Trustee Bernardo: additions on land within the dpa that's already been disturbed uh so I can go either way my

[3:00:28] Trustee Bernardo: my preference would be to deal with those three items

[3:00:31] Trustee Bernardo: separately because they really are the principal issues

[3:00:33] Trustee Bernardo: that are of most concern.

[3:00:35] Trustee Bernardo: On the other hand, we can plow through the red line

[3:00:39] Trustee Bernardo: and to answer your question specifically Chair,

[3:00:44] Trustee Bernardo: I think it would be more efficient to go through

[3:00:48] Trustee Bernardo: the red line and also these other points

[3:00:52] Trustee Bernardo: that I brought up and identify the things that we

[3:01:00] Voice 11: disagree with

[3:01:01] Voice 11: but

[3:01:02] Trustee Bernardo: if the red line uh and that would and the reason i say that is there's likely

[3:01:08] Trustee Bernardo: to be more things that are agreed upon than not and then if we have a collection of items of the

[3:01:17] Trustee Bernardo: areas of disagreement or changes that we want to put to the red line perhaps we could deal with

[3:01:22] Trustee Bernardo: all of those uh in an omnibus resolution that proposes the series of edits to the document

[3:01:30] Trustee Bernardo: that's before the LTC.

[3:01:33] Trustee Bernardo: And that might be an efficient way

[3:01:35] Trustee Bernardo: rather than sort of wrangling one motion after another.

[3:01:38] Trustee Bernardo: If we just sort of collect them all at the end,

[3:01:40] Trustee Bernardo: whatever changes to the red line are required,

[3:01:43] Trustee Bernardo: collect them all at the end and deal with them then.

[3:01:48] Trustee Bernardo: So I don't know if that's helpful,

[3:01:50] Trustee Bernardo: but I think we could do it that way.

[3:01:51] Trustee Luckham: Sure, so I think then if we look at page 47

[3:01:56] Trustee Luckham: of the package, I think that's where

[3:01:59] Trustee Luckham: the red line document is.

[3:02:01] Trustee Luckham: And I think you're right. We likely can go through that and agree that it represents what we're interested in or not, and then discuss it or not.

[3:02:11] Trustee Luckham: And I can certainly make notes of areas where we could do general endorsement, and then maybe we would want to have more detailed discussion on the other ones.

[3:02:23] Trustee Luckham: So should we just start on page 47, and we'll just go through section to section and just basically look for a yay or nay of support the change as presented, which helped me out to plan a Macargar would mean then, like, let's just take that first one on page 47, 1.1, that the red and the purple that are there are what we would endorse and what's been struck out would be endorsed as being struck out.

[3:02:49] Trustee Luckham: And so as it would be read as a as a final piece would be what we would be looking to endorse at this time.

[3:03:01] Planner McCargar: Yeah, I think I guess I just

[3:03:03] Planner McCargar: wanted to highlight that I haven't run through all of the changes that Trustee Bernardo has suggested and done a planning analysis on all of those like this.

[3:03:16] Planner McCargar: This, I have, this was a significant amount of work and a significant amount of new and

[3:03:24] Planner McCargar: additional changes from the last run through that I did with Trustee Bernardo.

[3:03:28] Planner McCargar: So I really wanted direction from the LTC as to how staff is to spend time.

[3:03:35] Planner McCargar: And if staff is to spend a significant amount of time in addition to what has already been

[3:03:41] Planner McCargar: spent to run through all of these new proposed changes, we'd need direction to do that.

[3:03:49] Planner McCargar: Okay. So if but if the LTC agrees that you know this short this for example the first definition

[3:03:55] Planner McCargar: there that the the red and the purple change as accepted then we can just move through and change

[3:04:01] Planner McCargar: is accepted.

[3:04:02] Trustee Luckham: Right and then it after we finish today's work we would direct you to review it

[3:04:08] Trustee Luckham: to ensure that it has some uh legal and and planning integrity or something okay does that

[3:04:16] Trustee Luckham: seem reasonable yeah

[3:04:18] Trustee Stamford: yeah no just just as long as we we don't need long explanations about

[3:04:22] Trustee Stamford: stuff if we agree we agree yeah

[3:04:24] Trustee Luckham: well yeah i think we just need to try and be as uh conscious of

[3:04:31] Trustee Luckham: moving through this as as reasonable as we can so let us just start off then if that's all right

[3:04:36] Trustee Luckham: at 1.1 what you see there in red and purple to be accepted is that at 1.1 does that seem reasonable

[3:04:44] Trustee Luckham: at this time?

[3:04:46] Trustee Bernardo: With the chair's indulgence I think I can help this process go pretty quickly because

[3:04:51] Trustee Bernardo: at least in the things that are relatively uncontroversial because a number of my changes

[3:04:57] Trustee Bernardo: maybe most of the changes are really language changes to make the document or make the

[3:05:04] Trustee Bernardo: provision uh clearer others are more substantive than will require discussion this is not and if

[3:05:11] Trustee Bernardo: with the chair's indulgence i would prefer to just frankly take the lead of just racing through this

[3:05:17] Trustee Bernardo: stuff because then i can just say what i'm trying to do here briefly and identify whether or not i

[3:05:24] Trustee Bernardo: believe it's substantive or not and uh it might go faster that way

[3:05:29] Trustee Stamford: it's fairly self-explanatory

[3:05:32] Trustee Stamford: but I am looking forward to the more substantial points.

[3:05:35] Trustee Stamford: So

[3:05:36] Trustee Bernardo: this

[3:05:37] Trustee Stamford: first one, I'll just say yes.

[3:05:39] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, well, the point of this one

[3:05:41] Trustee Bernardo: is just to clarify the language.

[3:05:44] Trustee Bernardo: If that's acceptable to, or put it this way,

[3:05:47] Trustee Bernardo: the better way of probably putting it is

[3:05:49] Trustee Bernardo: if trustees don't object to this language,

[3:05:51] Trustee Bernardo: we can just move on to the next thing.

[3:05:53] Trustee Luckham: Yes.

[3:05:54] Trustee Luckham: So yeah, that's what I'm after.

[3:05:55] Trustee Luckham: Yay or nay, item 1.1, can we move on from it?

[3:05:59] Voice 11: Yes.

[3:06:00] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, good.

[3:06:03] Trustee Bernardo: 1.2a uh makes sense to me that's a staff suggestion same thing with b

[3:06:12] Trustee Bernardo: moving on to uh 1.6 on the next page in red can

[3:06:19] Trustee Stamford: you put the numbers because i'm six part two

[3:06:24] Voice 11: yes it's 48.

[3:06:26] Trustee Stamford: great okay yeah yeah

[3:06:30] Trustee Bernardo: yeah that's yeah that's uh that's a proposal by staff to sort

[3:06:35] Trustee Bernardo: of um uh just basically grammatical technical language not a problem there um and that has

[3:06:43] Trustee Bernardo: introducing that has a number change which is why you're getting those other

[3:06:47] Voice 11: whatever

[3:06:48] Trustee Bernardo: that color is uh turquoise and uh again i don't i'm fine with 1.7

[3:06:56] Trustee Bernardo: uh 1.9 is a bit more complicated uh the original version i had originally objected not objected but

[3:07:07] Trustee Bernardo: made the comment in the first go around with staff that uh referencing a covenant we need to

[3:07:13] Trustee Bernardo: know what the covenant should provide for because that provides direction it shouldn't be left up

[3:07:19] Trustee Bernardo: in the air so that it's left to planners to sort of guess what's needed or to sort of adapt on

[3:07:25] Trustee Bernardo: their own uh if we're requiring a covenant we need to be very specific about what it's supposed to

[3:07:31] Trustee Bernardo: achieve and why it's there and that provides both staff and the public the guidance they need so

[3:07:37] Trustee Bernardo: that explains why i did this edit here you'll see that on 1.9 there's also the highlighted in yellow

[3:07:46] Trustee Bernardo: the 154 square meters point we resolved that last time no point to revisit it what i'm doing here

[3:07:53] Trustee Bernardo: with this language and it's repeated in a bunch of places where in fact everywhere shared dots

[3:07:59] Trustee Bernardo: are contemplated it's it's basically specifying the content of what the covet like the minimum

[3:08:05] Trustee Bernardo: content of what the covenant is supposed to have in it, which is it needs to be registered

[3:08:10] Trustee Bernardo: on title and all of the participating properties. It needs to identify the property on which

[3:08:20] Trustee Bernardo: the shared dock will be situated. It needs to prevent the construction of a dock and

[3:08:25] Trustee Bernardo: any others and make sure that the occupants of each participating property can make use

[3:08:31] Trustee Bernardo: of the shared dock freely. I don't think there's any contradiction with what the staff was

[3:08:36] Trustee Bernardo: saying before there's just more detail okay

[3:08:38] Trustee Stamford: and yeah i'm i'm fine with the intent and as long as

[3:08:43] Trustee Stamford: it's run through as far as making sense um with the rest of the planning structure then i'm fine

[3:08:51] Trustee Stamford: with that i have no issue right

[3:08:53] Trustee Luckham: and likewise you know it's unusual to have a lot of detail

[3:08:58] Trustee Luckham: but i certainly understand the necessity for it and i don't see any reason why we can't do that

[3:09:04] Trustee Luckham: But I also want to provide the opportunity to Planner McCarger that if she's seeing something that we're agreeing is appropriate to advance as presented, then it would be helpful to have your point of view on cautions on that.

[3:09:18] Trustee Luckham: So are you seeing any difficulty with that extended language associated with that one at 1.9 part four?

[3:09:27] Planner McCargar: that is something that i'd want to consult legal on because i the language that was originally

[3:09:31] Planner McCargar: proposed is language that we've used in other bylaws so that's why it's there so i don't know

[3:09:39] Planner McCargar: that there would be it might be over complicating it slightly but if that's not an issue with legal

[3:09:44] Planner McCargar: then i think it's fine i do think you would want to refer to section 1.24 as that is the section

[3:09:51] Planner McCargar: in the bylaw that talks about covenants generally but again i i

[3:09:58] Trustee Bernardo: yeah just to explain that the reason

[3:10:00] Trustee Bernardo: i took it out is uh the section 1.24 uh 1.2.4 sorry um it it makes uh i mean it's a regulatory

[3:10:13] Trustee Bernardo: requirement that makes all subject all covenants subject to its terms so anytime this bylaw refers

[3:10:20] Trustee Bernardo: refers to a covenant it's it's it's locked into the requirements of 1.2.4 so i don't see any need

[3:10:27] Trustee Bernardo: to refer to it but you know the legal review will will if that is a problem uh and well that's why

[3:10:35] Trustee Bernardo: we want a legal review we want that identified of what a potential issue might be that's fine

[3:10:40] Trustee Bernardo: okay so i think we can move on i

[3:10:43] Trustee Luckham: don't think we need to spend any more time on it so

[3:10:45] Trustee Luckham: So, indeed,

[3:10:46] Trustee Luckham: the legal review will catch any of those minor details.

[3:10:49] Trustee Bernardo: Right.

[3:10:49] Trustee Bernardo: Okay.

[3:10:50] Trustee Luckham: So, we'll move on then.

[3:10:51] Trustee Luckham: Go ahead, Trustee Bernardo.

[3:10:53] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[3:10:55] Trustee Bernardo: At 1.12, it's the same change.

[3:10:58] Trustee Stamford: Yep.

[3:10:58] Trustee Stamford: Yep.

[3:10:59] Trustee Stamford: I see that.

[3:11:00] Trustee Bernardo: Now we're into the yellow stuff, which you've already agreed on.

[3:11:02] Trustee Stamford: Yep.

[3:11:03] Trustee Bernardo: And then at 1.20, what you have is the same language about covenants.

[3:11:09] Voice 3: Okay.

[3:11:10] Trustee Bernardo: Right.

[3:11:14] Trustee Bernardo: And here's an interesting point here at 1.21.

[3:11:21] Trustee Bernardo: This is actually a kind of turns on how we read

[3:11:26] Trustee Bernardo: the existing language at section 4.6.

[3:11:36] Trustee Bernardo: Staff was suggesting the first bullet in 4.6.9

[3:11:39] Trustee Bernardo: be amended by replacing 24 hectares with 12 hectares uh i actually think that the the the

[3:11:47] Trustee Bernardo: the mistake that's in the lub is it's the other way around the second bullet addresses lots of

[3:11:56] Trustee Bernardo: between 30 and 60 acres or more so it would follow that the first bullet logically ought to be

[3:12:02] Trustee Bernardo: covering lots that are less than 68 or less than 30 acres so that my reading is that that the it

[3:12:10] Trustee Bernardo: It shouldn't be a shift from 30 to 60.

[3:12:16] Trustee Bernardo: It should be like 24, replace 24 hectares with 12 hectares.

[3:12:21] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, that's, if you read 4.69, that seems to be a more logical flow to it.

[3:12:30] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[3:12:31] Trustee Luckham: So I think that the amendment is reasonable.

[3:12:34] Trustee Luckham: And I think, Flannery MacGarger, in your review, you will be ensuring that the language is correlated back to other sections and other language.

[3:12:46] Trustee Luckham: Would that be correct?

[3:12:47] Planner McCargar: Yeah, just for a little bit of context, this was the conversion error that was identified at the last meeting.

[3:12:54] Planner McCargar: I do think that we might have a slightly different interpretation, Trustee Bernardo and I.

[3:12:59] Planner McCargar: Yeah, he thinks that it should be 12 hectares, 30 acres, and my read on it is it should be 24 hectares, 60 acres would be the correction.

[3:13:09] Planner McCargar: So the LTC can perhaps decide how they want to move forward with that.

[3:13:17] Trustee Luckham: Well, it's

[3:13:18] Trustee Luckham: a math thing, and let's just get it right.

[3:13:21] Trustee Bernardo: In order to do that, what we need to do is have the existing provision up on the screen.

[3:13:30] Trustee Bernardo: so that the points i'm making about the logic of what it's saying can

[3:13:35] Planner McCargar: you see my screen

[3:13:35] Planner McCargar: we have

[3:13:37] Trustee Bernardo: to resolve what where's the typo what's where's the mistake you know so can we get that

[3:13:43] Trustee Luckham: larger uh trustee mccarter well

[3:13:47] Trustee Bernardo: what we need is actually i lost 78 4.6.9 we need that up on the

[3:13:52] Trustee Bernardo: screen so we can look at it and discuss whether it should be 24 replacing 24 with

[3:13:59] Voice 11: 12 or replacing

[3:14:00] Voice 11: you know the other one so

[3:14:11] Planner McCargar: my my read i if i can just kind of explain um that this first bullet

[3:14:17] Planner McCargar: point here is saying that on lots um it's not i

[3:14:22] Trustee Bernardo: don't i don't oh i see you can't see it

[3:14:24] Trustee Bernardo: sorry i

[3:14:25] Trustee Bernardo: was looking at something i was sorry i was yes i do see my apologies go ahead so

[3:14:32] Planner McCargar: on on lots that

[3:14:33] Planner McCargar: that are greater than 0.8 hectares and less than 24 hectares get one single family dwelling and

[3:14:41] Planner McCargar: one guest cottage. Next bullet, on lots greater than 24 hectares, they can have one single family

[3:14:50] Planner McCargar: dwelling per 12 hectares. And by leaving this as the 24 hectares and just correcting the acreage,

[3:14:59] Planner McCargar: it allows the two bullet points to be mutually exclusive right

[3:15:04] Voice 11: yeah okay let me follow the

[3:15:07] Voice 11: reasoning here i get it i think it's

[3:15:17] Trustee Luckham: just the conversion from 12 hectares to 30 no 24 hectares

[3:15:21] Trustee Luckham: to 30 acres that's wrong is

[3:15:24] Voice 11: what planner mccargar is saying uh let's see yes but um then you end up

[3:15:39] Voice 11: with this the

[3:15:40] Trustee Bernardo: first bullet is saying one single family dwelling and one accessory cottage is

[3:15:46] Trustee Bernardo: permitted on lots that are um larger than two acres or sort of you know larger than 0.8 hectares

[3:15:54] Trustee Bernardo: and less than 24 hectares yeah and

[3:15:58] Planner McCargar: then the

[3:15:59] Planner McCargar: second bullet is dealing dealing with lots that are

[3:16:01] Planner McCargar: larger than 24 hectares right can

[3:16:05] Trustee Stamford: it be worded in a way for like the start of the sentence on the

[3:16:09] Trustee Stamford: bullet well i

[3:16:11] Trustee Stamford: don't think we wanted

[3:16:12] Planner McCargar: to get into wordsmithing we just really wanted to correct

[3:16:15] Planner McCargar: this conversion which should be 60 acres instead of 30 it's totally separate from the shoreline

[3:16:20] Planner McCargar: project it was just an error that was caught yeah

[3:16:23] Voice 12: but but i'm confused but because it doesn't make

[3:16:27] Voice 12: any sense to allow one

[3:16:28] Trustee Bernardo: single family dwelling in one accessory cottage uh on lots that are

[3:16:36] Trustee Bernardo: less than 24 hectares but we don't permit them oh I see

[3:16:42] Voice 11: yeah it's per 12.

[3:16:44] Trustee Bernardo: yeah okay well you know

[3:16:46] Trustee Bernardo: what I'm going to roll over on that one okay that's

[3:16:49] Trustee Bernardo: right that's the first one we need to

[3:16:52] Trustee Bernardo: make a note of let's do it staff's way okay

[3:16:55] Trustee Luckham: so then 1.2.1

[3:16:57] Voice 11: would um the red

[3:17:05] Trustee Luckham: line version there

[3:17:05] Trustee Luckham: well the purple section there um would be say replacing 30 acres with 60 acres so that

[3:17:12] Trustee Luckham: the original red line version would be what we would adopt there

[3:17:16] Trustee Bernardo: correct so that so in the

[3:17:20] Trustee Bernardo: final or not the final but the resolution at the end of this piece he said that we have to say that

[3:17:25] Trustee Bernardo: about that is

[3:17:28] Voice 11: somebody sharing that i

[3:17:30] Trustee Luckham: am writing that down yes

[3:17:32] Trustee Luckham: and so okay so i'm going to say

[3:17:36] Trustee Luckham: original red line version yeah

[3:17:39] Voice 3: okay

[3:17:40] Trustee Luckham: great so

[3:17:41] Voice 11: let's keep going to steve bernardo okay let's move on

[3:17:45] Voice 11: here um give

[3:17:48] Trustee Bernardo: me a second just got it got the pdf up on a different screen here uh no comments about

[3:17:55] Trustee Bernardo: the stuff in red that's all fine same with all the stuff in yellow that's all been decided

[3:18:00] Trustee Bernardo: provided no comments well 1.2 1.26 uh moving on to

[3:18:08] Voice 3: the

[3:18:10] Trustee Bernardo: next page staff is formally doesn't

[3:18:14] Trustee Bernardo: like the term appendix that's fine we don't have to deal with get rid of that um the language

[3:18:20] Trustee Bernardo: change in point one is fine uh the change to the first bullet uh that's staff i want

[3:18:27] Voice 11: a problem with staff's um issue there but um i think

[3:18:34] Trustee Bernardo: um this is a little complicated

[3:18:37] Trustee Bernardo: where i'm coming from here bear with me here which is um originally first of all the easy

[3:18:44] Trustee Bernardo: thing is that the the first bullet originally didn't include utility uh in terms of requiring

[3:18:51] Trustee Bernardo: a development

[3:18:51] Voice 11: permit and uh and i think you know the

[3:18:58] Trustee Bernardo: idea the general rule of requiring a

[3:19:00] Trustee Bernardo: development permit within the dpa should encompass everything that's going to happen in there so new

[3:19:06] Trustee Bernardo: construction of or new construction addition or alteration of a building structure utility

[3:19:12] Trustee Bernardo: or shoreline protection uh and the reason i've taken up the second bullet which was added by

[3:19:21] Trustee Bernardo: staff that says repair maintenance or alteration of shoreline protection measures is that it is

[3:19:25] Trustee Bernardo: is broad enough to capture shoreline protection measures that are entirely green.

[3:19:36] Trustee Bernardo: So what I'm trying to do with that first bullet is to say, look, new construction or addition

[3:19:41] Trustee Bernardo: or alteration of a built shoreline protection measure, yeah, you need to get a development

[3:19:48] Trustee Bernardo: permit for that. That's covered there. But when it comes to repairing and maintenance,

[3:19:53] Trustee Bernardo: maintenance uh what we do is and i've added you have to hop ahead here to the new exemption b

[3:20:03] Trustee Bernardo: which i've added here to address the issue which says repairing maintenance of i'm offering or

[3:20:09] Trustee Bernardo: suggesting an exemption for the repair and maintenance of soft shoreline protection

[3:20:13] Trustee Bernardo: member measures that were designed and implemented the direction of a qualified professional

[3:20:17] Trustee Bernardo: provided always that any such work is limited to maintaining the original design parameters

[3:20:22] Trustee Bernardo: or something to measure the idea here is once you've got uh and you're i'm sorry about this

[3:20:28] Trustee Bernardo: there's a lot happening here but you'll call in my memo original memo i was proposing that we

[3:20:32] Trustee Bernardo: have more liberal um permissions to allow uh homeowners to to engage in using green shore

[3:20:40] Trustee Bernardo: uh methods without the need to get a development permit for a professional uh trustee stamford had

[3:20:48] Trustee Bernardo: made a comment in passing about that near the end of the last meeting and i went back to it and i

[3:20:53] Trustee Bernardo: I started thinking about it.

[3:20:54] Trustee Bernardo: I think I was wrong, to tell you the truth,

[3:20:56] Trustee Bernardo: in terms of what I was proposing in the memo.

[3:20:59] Trustee Bernardo: Instead of what was going on about the memo

[3:21:02] Trustee Bernardo: of making a much more elaborate exemption,

[3:21:04] Trustee Bernardo: I'm contemplating here a very restrictive exemption,

[3:21:07] Trustee Bernardo: a restricted exemption,

[3:21:09] Trustee Bernardo: that would allow a homeowner or a property owner

[3:21:13] Trustee Bernardo: that has developed or has put in place

[3:21:19] Trustee Bernardo: shoreline protection measures

[3:21:21] Trustee Bernardo: measures that were designed properly obtained under development permit and are entirely soft

[3:21:28] Trustee Bernardo: allows a person once they've established that and it was established under a dp

[3:21:33] Trustee Bernardo: that they can repair the soft measures without having to get a development firm

[3:21:38] Trustee Bernardo: the thing's already there and it's the kind of measure we want this allows the property owner

[3:21:45] Trustee Bernardo: to maintain it without having to get a development permit i hope you can follow all of that

[3:21:49] Trustee Bernardo: and you know with that in place it makes up for taking out the second bullet that's what i'm

[3:21:55] Trustee Bernardo: getting right so can i

[3:21:57] Trustee Luckham: yes please yeah and whether or not you concur or not like do you want to keep

[3:22:03] Trustee Luckham: that bullet in or are you happy with the trustee bernardo's recommendation to remove it

[3:22:07] Trustee Stamford: so the

[3:22:08] Trustee Stamford: general principle of what he's he's trying to accomplish i i am fine with i think that the

[3:22:17] Trustee Stamford: the whole idea around the purpose of green shores and how it's put in.

[3:22:22] Trustee Stamford: I just want to be careful that ideally we're not doing anything.

[3:22:29] Trustee Stamford: And that green shores is just another way of putting in a form of,

[3:22:36] Trustee Stamford: of shoreline protection, whether it's a wall or whatever,

[3:22:40] Trustee Stamford: it's still an adjustment within,

[3:22:42] Trustee Stamford: within the area that is the most sensitive.

[3:22:46] Trustee Stamford: in this particular aspect of it yes if it's already being outlined by a professional it's

[3:22:53] Trustee Stamford: already being built i understand what you're looking at in terms of repair but i i just want

[3:23:00] Trustee Stamford: to be clear sometimes green um structures are to repair them requires a lot of movement it can mean

[3:23:10] Trustee Stamford: bringing in a big um uh um loader or whatever in order to repair it those kind of permits would

[3:23:19] Trustee Stamford: still probably be needed through um the federal government things like that so i i think that's

[3:23:28] Trustee Stamford: where we're going to get stuck is the principle of it i don't see it as a benefit or or anything

[3:23:34] Trustee Stamford: think green shores is a structure within the shoreline that we have to make sure is

[3:23:41] Trustee Stamford: that the work that's done on it protects the environment around it so this particular aspect

[3:23:49] Trustee Stamford: yes i concur but i can see further down the the list of review where i have concerns about the

[3:23:57] Trustee Stamford: the

[3:23:57] Voice 11: interpretation of the purpose of Green Shores.

[3:24:00] Voice 11: So do you agree with the removal of bullet two,

[3:24:12] Voice 11: Trustee Stamford?

[3:24:13] Voice 11: Or at least don't object.

[3:24:17] Voice 11: That's true.

[3:24:22] Voice 11: Just like Joe, I'm looking at a split screen here

[3:24:26] Trustee Stamford: that's quite small, so.

[3:24:27] Trustee Luckham: Well, me too, yeah.

[3:24:29] Trustee Stamford: So I just, so I don't have a specific objection.

[3:24:34] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so then let's assume that that would be adopted

[3:24:38] Trustee Luckham: as presented there.

[3:24:39] Trustee Luckham: So let's continue on to your next section, Joe, exemptions number two, I think it is.

[3:24:44] Voice 12: Right. This is the key thing here. We're getting into the real guts of it.

[3:24:50] Trustee Luckham: Although, Joe, I do want to cut you off, actually, just to say that let's determine in advance whether or not we agree or not, because we don't necessarily need a full explanation if we agree.

[3:25:01] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[3:25:01] Trustee Bernardo: well you know i'm sorry but i think some of these things like we've actually talked we

[3:25:08] Trustee Bernardo: talked a fair bit about this one so i don't propose to sort of guess on about this one in

[3:25:12] Trustee Bernardo: particular uh but some of these things do i mean some of these i don't want to race through any of

[3:25:20] Trustee Bernardo: these uh we

[3:25:22] Voice 11: can do it if

[3:25:23] Trustee Bernardo: i can finish my point we can deal with them quickly but we need to

[3:25:28] Trustee Bernardo: we do need to address them and simply asking people if they agree or don't agree without

[3:25:33] Trustee Bernardo: having a deliberation about it even briefly I don't agree that's the way to go with it I mean

[3:25:38] Trustee Bernardo: let's try to I want to be sure that where I'm coming from is is understood before anybody

[3:25:44] Trustee Bernardo: voices whether they support or not I want them to know what I'm actually trying to do

[3:25:48] Trustee Bernardo: in any event we talked a lot about this last time you you guys have my point that the repair

[3:25:55] Trustee Bernardo: maintenance of things involves the replacement of building

[3:26:01] Trustee Bernardo: components and that's frequently necessary.

[3:26:03] Trustee Bernardo: For example, you know, repairing a roof, that sort of stuff.

[3:26:06] Trustee Bernardo: I won't repeat all that just now at the last time when we

[3:26:10] Trustee Bernardo: were just on the verge of sort of dealing with this,

[3:26:12] Trustee Bernardo: when we ran out of time,

[3:26:13] Trustee Bernardo: trustee Sanford made a point that she was not entirely

[3:26:17] Trustee Bernardo: comfortable with the language that I had proposed,

[3:26:21] Trustee Bernardo: which is the stuff that's in purple at what is now 0.2 A

[3:26:26] Trustee Bernardo: uh she didn't think that does not alter undisturbed land or native vegetation

[3:26:32] Trustee Bernardo: quite did the job uh okay uh the whole idea here behind the language of altered

[3:26:40] Trustee Bernardo: that that a repair job or a maintenance job doesn't alter undisturbed land or native vegetation

[3:26:46] Trustee Bernardo: is is to prevent further degradation of ecology that's already um sustained if we're honest with

[3:26:55] Trustee Bernardo: themselves sustained quite a bit of human impact already in many areas not everywhere but in quite

[3:27:02] Trustee Bernardo: a few areas and certainly the areas where people actually have existing houses in any event

[3:27:07] Trustee Bernardo: to address trustee stanford's uh point i added this other language to say uh or other

[3:27:14] Trustee Bernardo: so the effect is that you know uh the work is conducted entirely with the footprint uh and does

[3:27:22] Trustee Bernardo: not alter uh undisturbed land or native vegetation or otherwise describe the ecology of dp3

[3:27:29] Trustee Bernardo: uh and that would encompass anything that's done that doesn't necessarily that it isn't limited to

[3:27:36] Trustee Bernardo: the particular property at issue but also the neighboring properties like that i don't know

[3:27:42] Trustee Bernardo: if that satisfies trustee stanford but it does um expand and make more general the protection

[3:27:48] Trustee Bernardo: and what we're trying to do here can

[3:27:50] Trustee Stamford: i comment

[3:27:51] Trustee Stamford: on that yeah so i i recognize what you're trying

[3:27:56] Trustee Stamford: to do my issue is with the word undisturbed land or native vegetation um specifically in that

[3:28:05] Trustee Stamford: i'm not sure who is qualified to determine whether it's undisturbed and whether you mean by

[3:28:11] Trustee Stamford: undisturbed um has not been like you can have a lawn with stone steps and and shrubs around it

[3:28:22] Trustee Stamford: is that considered disturbed land or is that in situ land are we talking about pristine

[3:28:30] Trustee Stamford: uh waterfront areas that we don't want to disturb are we talking about anything that is maintaining

[3:28:39] Trustee Stamford: the integrity of the foreshore that is my focus is you can have rhododendrons you can have stone

[3:28:48] Trustee Stamford: steps i don't want to see those moved or disturbed unnecessarily because they provide integrity to

[3:28:57] Trustee Stamford: the archaeological potential underneath them and also to any potential for degradation or

[3:29:08] Trustee Stamford: erosion and things like that. So that's my concern about the use of undisturbed. I'm not quite sure

[3:29:15] Trustee Stamford: what it means.

[3:29:16] Trustee Bernardo: Well, if we look at the very, prior to all this, fooling around with all this

[3:29:28] Trustee Bernardo: language, if we go back to the version of the bylaw that has actually passed second reading,

[3:29:38] Trustee Bernardo: where it's it is now numbered point two b that's where i get the language okay because it it um i

[3:29:47] Trustee Bernardo: don't really know how to answer your question or address your concern because this was language

[3:29:52] Trustee Bernardo: that the ltc and staff had already signed off on

[3:29:55] Voice 11: yeah which

[3:29:56] Trustee Bernardo: now says repair and maintenance

[3:29:57] Trustee Bernardo: of pre-existing lawful buildings blah blah blah

[3:29:59] Trustee Bernardo: laugh.

[3:30:00] Trustee Bernardo: Provided there's no alteration of undisturbed land or vegetation, et cetera.

[3:30:04] Trustee Bernardo: And so that undisturbed land, and I added the native vegetation thing,

[3:30:08] Trustee Bernardo: I understood that to mean land that was pristine

[3:30:15] Trustee Bernardo: or hadn't been affected by human development or human activity.

[3:30:19] Trustee Bernardo: And so that, yeah, the lawn that you're describing, that's disturbed.

[3:30:24] Voice 3: There's

[3:30:24] Trustee Bernardo: no native habitat there.

[3:30:26] Voice 11: Now,

[3:30:27] Trustee Bernardo: your larger concerns about, well, if somebody, you know, first of all, I don't think it's reasonable if somebody's got a lawn and they've decided they're going to rip up part of the lawn and they're going to put in a horseshoe pitch, that they've got to get a development permit for it.

[3:30:41] Trustee Bernardo: The archaeological obligation already exists elsewhere in other legislation.

[3:30:47] Trustee Bernardo: And that's covered.

[3:30:49] Trustee Bernardo: whether or not the preserving the foreshore is one thing but there are other requirements in the

[3:30:59] Trustee Bernardo: bylaw that prevent people from doing things on their property that result in sediment or things

[3:31:09] Trustee Bernardo: falling onto the beach and all that thing and outflows so

[3:31:13] Voice 11: I think those concerns are already

[3:31:14] Voice 11: addressed by the bylaw um you know i i

[3:31:21] Trustee Stamford: agree like looking at this yeah i've gone through it

[3:31:25] Trustee Stamford: a number of times and each time we go through it we come up with different considerations

[3:31:31] Trustee Stamford: so and that and that that's fine but i just want to make sure that people's understanding of this

[3:31:39] Trustee Stamford: is the same and when you say well yeah we should be able to put a horseshoe pitch in

[3:31:43] Trustee Stamford: on our lawn but if your lawn is within that dpa then yeah i have concerns about that because it

[3:31:53] Trustee Stamford: does change the integrity of that foreshore area if you are pulling up something that's established

[3:32:01] Trustee Stamford: whether it's native or not there's there's almost no pristine foreshore on keats to speak of if you

[3:32:09] Trustee Stamford: you could you know if you really want to get into that definition so my overall intent regardless

[3:32:17] Trustee Stamford: of the specific wording is that we use language as much as possible to protect the foreshore

[3:32:24] Trustee Stamford: and that people are not uh seeing that foreshore area as potential for everyday use yes if we have

[3:32:34] Trustee Stamford: to do occasional things around it yeah there's going to be stuff off your roof when you're

[3:32:39] Trustee Stamford: redoing the roof but i don't want that same roof material sitting there three years three years

[3:32:45] Trustee Stamford: later because oh well it's disturbed anywhere i can leave it there those kinds of scenarios that

[3:32:50] Trustee Stamford: that's what i've been thinking of so um um if it's okay if um planner mccarver jumps in if this

[3:32:57] Trustee Stamford: fits what i'm trying to get up yeah

[3:33:02] Planner McCargar: through the chair i just wanted to address the the question

[3:33:05] Planner McCargar: about undisturbed and I think it is meant to mean non-altered undisturbed by humans but when

[3:33:14] Planner McCargar: pairing that so it's undisturbed land or vegetation in the original wording that it wasn't or native

[3:33:21] Planner McCargar: vegetation it was just or vegetation I think that broadens it to address some of the concerns that

[3:33:27] Planner McCargar: that you are having trustee stanford that any vegetation would not be exempt because i'll give

[3:33:36] Trustee Stamford: an example uh joe is is we've got we don't have the kind of protections in our foreshore right

[3:33:42] Trustee Stamford: now and on gambier so somebody has we have a scenario where they cut down every tree

[3:33:49] Trustee Stamford: now those trees were not native they were rhododendrons they were um um sequoias none

[3:33:57] Trustee Stamford: None of those trees are native, so they could just cut them all down, and they did.

[3:34:01] Trustee Stamford: And now that same area, they're asking to build a wall because the whole area is slumping into the beach.

[3:34:09] Trustee Stamford: So those are the kinds of things I see as real-world concerns, and I'm trying to find wording that would prevent those kinds of activities within that area.

[3:34:22] Trustee Stamford: area?

[3:34:23] Voice 10: Well, if I can respond to some of these points,

[3:34:26] Trustee Bernardo: I'm a little worried about where you're

[3:34:29] Trustee Bernardo: coming from here, Trustee Stamford, because it was never my understanding that the purpose of

[3:34:35] Trustee Bernardo: this bylaw was to freeze the ability of property owners to make use of their property that was

[3:34:46] Trustee Bernardo: was already developed.

[3:34:49] Trustee Bernardo: The original intention of this up until this point

[3:34:53] Trustee Bernardo: has been, as Planner McHugger pointed out,

[3:34:55] Trustee Bernardo: to deal with the undisturbed land issue.

[3:34:58] Trustee Bernardo: And the reason I put native in the vegetation here

[3:35:01] Trustee Bernardo: is just leaving it as vegetation is unreasonable

[3:35:04] Trustee Bernardo: because you're talking about non-native vegetation.

[3:35:07] Trustee Bernardo: That adds up, if it doesn't disturb,

[3:35:09] Trustee Bernardo: if the requirement for the exemption

[3:35:11] Trustee Bernardo: is it just doesn't disturb vegetation at all,

[3:35:14] Trustee Bernardo: then you're telling people they can't mow their lawn.

[3:35:17] Trustee Bernardo: on. You're telling people they can't rip up a rosebush that's already there. We have to have

[3:35:21] Trustee Bernardo: a sense of proportion here of what we're trying to do. I hear you when you discuss that problem

[3:35:26] Trustee Bernardo: that you observed on Gambria. But there are limits to what you can control

[3:35:33] Trustee Bernardo: through these types of bylaws. It's unfortunate that that situation happened there.

[3:35:39] Trustee Bernardo: But I was trying to cover it with this language that says,

[3:35:43] Voice 11: what

[3:35:44] Trustee Bernardo: I'm trying to get at here is that

[3:35:45] Trustee Bernardo: The repair and maintenance, all that stuff, includes replacement of things.

[3:35:49] Trustee Bernardo: It's all fine, provided you're not affecting the pristine environment that's already there, or otherwise to create the ecology of DP3.

[3:36:01] Trustee Bernardo: and the the hypothetical or the example you just gave us of the rhododendron extraction and then

[3:36:07] Trustee Bernardo: the subsequent mess up that led to the need to have a seawall or some sort of shoreline protection

[3:36:15] Trustee Bernardo: measure that would actually be covered by this language that i put in here otherwise like you

[3:36:21] Trustee Bernardo: you can't degrade the ecology of dp3 and

[3:36:25] Trustee Stamford: so yeah and i mean i i'd much rather like to come to this

[3:36:31] Trustee Stamford: conversation with solution wording that that i was comfortable with um if we can rely i don't

[3:36:40] Trustee Stamford: feel the need to worry about native vegetation because i think to me it's vegetation although

[3:36:49] Trustee Stamford: there's again there's always sides this i i also don't want people planting a ton of broom which

[3:36:55] Trustee Stamford: which they do on other shorelines to protect their shoreline from degradation.

[3:37:01] Trustee Stamford: So if otherwise degraded ecology covers what I need,

[3:37:10] Trustee Stamford: I think we are coming from this from two different points.

[3:37:14] Trustee Stamford: You have a different level of responsibility within that DP3 area.

[3:37:20] Trustee Stamford: It is your land, but there are far more restrictions to be able to accommodate foreshore protection on that specific area.

[3:37:33] Trustee Stamford: So I am coming to this with a more restrictive view.

[3:37:36] Voice 10: I understand that, but

[3:37:38] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, if you want a complete freeze, then let's just say it.

[3:37:45] Trustee Bernardo: Let me finish the point here. If you want a complete freeze on development, just let's say it.

[3:37:50] Trustee Bernardo: and then we can then then we've got we can have our debate but this is back to like what you're

[3:37:56] Trustee Bernardo: now proposing i'm sorry to say is you're backing into something far more restricted than what was

[3:38:03] Trustee Bernardo: contemplated with uh the original version of this and um you know i'm in danger of repeating what i

[3:38:12] Trustee Bernardo: said in the memo but we have to be realistic of what we're dealing with here there are parts of

[3:38:16] Trustee Bernardo: the foreshore uh that you know i do disagree on the point you're saying that it's all been

[3:38:21] Trustee Bernardo: disturbed that's actually not true uh there are there are the smaller lots that's true but there's

[3:38:27] Trustee Bernardo: plenty of lots where the foreshore hasn't been tampered with parts of it have been parts of it

[3:38:32] Trustee Bernardo: haven't uh but many of them do have houses and properties that have always been making use of

[3:38:39] Trustee Bernardo: and what what you're talking about really would like especially if you if you take out the word

[3:38:46] Trustee Bernardo: native there you're really talking about requiring a person to get a development permit

[3:38:52] Trustee Bernardo: uh if they are going to pull out a rose bush no

[3:38:56] Trustee Stamford: they're not because we've got exemptions for

[3:38:58] Trustee Stamford: we we've put those in so i i think there is a reasonable uh accommodation on that um

[3:39:05] Trustee Stamford: finer mark mccurry yeah

[3:39:07] Planner McCargar: i just wanted to echo i think you kind of touched on it trustee stanford

[3:39:10] Planner McCargar: we're not trying to freeze development with this this is just an extra layer of protection

[3:39:16] Planner McCargar: in a really sensitive area and there have there are exemptions that have been

[3:39:20] Planner McCargar: put in for gardening

[3:39:21] Planner McCargar: and property maintenance activities that's including lawn mowing pruning um you know within

[3:39:27] Planner McCargar: a pre-existing landscaped area that's allowed pruning and trimming and limbing of trees there

[3:39:32] Planner McCargar: there's a number of of exemptions that are already included so that people of course can mow their

[3:39:38] Planner McCargar: lawns this is this particular exemption that you're discussing is is when you're looking at

[3:39:45] Planner McCargar: the repair and maintenance of a of a building and a structure and just setting some parameters

[3:39:49] Planner McCargar: around that but

[3:39:52] Trustee Bernardo: i i don't understand where the urgency is like i i hear trustee samford when

[3:39:57] Trustee Bernardo: when you're talking about you've seen this episode where somebody pulled out the rhododendron plants

[3:40:02] Trustee Bernardo: and there was a knock-on effect that was negative that and that had negative consequences for the

[3:40:09] Trustee Bernardo: the actual foreshore but our responsibility here is to protect the foreshore um but you know uh

[3:40:18] Trustee Bernardo: that's not an absolute value i mean it has to be balanced against the needs of the people who

[3:40:23] Trustee Bernardo: actually live there and um as i said i'm repeating myself but these people who cut down the

[3:40:31] Trustee Bernardo: rhododendrons and then ended up needing to get shoreline protection they degraded the ecology

[3:40:37] Trustee Bernardo: ecology of that part of their foreshore the language i'm proposing here would take care of

[3:40:42] Trustee Bernardo: that yeah you know what like the native vegetation thing i'm really quite puzzled by but what you're

[3:40:48] Trustee Bernardo: talking about here for example let's go to my hypothetical example it's the guy who has to

[3:40:53] Trustee Bernardo: replace his roof you know it's a shingle roof and so you know the crew comes over they lay a tarp

[3:40:58] Trustee Bernardo: over the guy's garden or lawn and they're they're they're pulling off the shingles and throwing them

[3:41:04] Trustee Bernardo: onto the thing and gosh what happens uh some of those shingles end up you know landing on

[3:41:11] Trustee Bernardo: some trees that are

[3:41:13] Voice 11: not native like some saplings or something along those lines

[3:41:16] Voice 11: and they get destroyed okay non-native vegetation that was disturbed and

[3:41:24] Trustee Bernardo: it was hurt that's that

[3:41:28] Trustee Bernardo: person loses the exemption for the roof repair as a result of that that's a violation

[3:41:32] Trustee Bernardo: i mean

[3:41:33] Trustee Bernardo: that's just not reasonable you know what i what i'm trying to get here is hear you and

[3:41:38] Trustee Bernardo: people an opportunity to repair their and maintain their properties uh in a practical way yeah and i

[3:41:44] Trustee Stamford: think the exemptions allow that and we're not asking for oh you're you know a roof tile broke

[3:41:51] Trustee Stamford: a tree branch that nobody is that's unreasonable and that's not what i'm saying i'm saying a more

[3:41:57] Trustee Stamford: likely scenario is all those tiles come off land in the foreshore area and are left there because

[3:42:06] Trustee Stamford: there it's within the the exemptions i want to see people really understand that any kind of work

[3:42:16] Trustee Stamford: can be it can be done but you always have to keep in mind that anything within that shore

[3:42:23] Trustee Stamford: foreshore area and keats is is that's where a lot of it is is in that foreshore because of how close

[3:42:31] Trustee Stamford: those those cabins are that it's done with extreme care and understanding you've got to return

[3:42:37] Trustee Stamford: everything to its original condition to your best of your ability within realism and i i think we

[3:42:45] Trustee Stamford: We have provided exemptions in here to allow you to have basic work done

[3:42:51] Trustee Stamford: within the setback, and yet it does protect the foreshore at the same time.

[3:42:59] Trustee Stamford: I don't think we're asking for freezing of all work done in that area.

[3:43:04] Voice 11: We're just

[3:43:05] Trustee Bernardo: minimizing to where it's important.

[3:43:08] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I'm glad to hear that because that would be just untenable,

[3:43:12] Trustee Bernardo: but i'm struggling here to understand um how to like like no bylaw can prevent people from

[3:43:22] Trustee Bernardo: making mistakes or being purposely exactly that

[3:43:27] Trustee Bernardo: okay that's not going to happen so the example

[3:43:29] Trustee Bernardo: you've just given you know somebody's changing doing the work on their on their roof and they

[3:43:35] Trustee Bernardo: just throw the shingles all over the beach i mean that's just that's degrading the ecology

[3:43:43] Trustee Bernardo: And I'm struggling to understand why the extra language I put in here doesn't cover your concern.

[3:43:50] Trustee Bernardo: I guess we could say otherwise degrade the ecology of DP3 or the foreshore, which is not...

[3:43:58] Trustee Bernardo: I'm

[3:43:59] Voice 11: just not sure if this extra part is necessary. I want to see it...

[3:44:08] Voice 11: Can

[3:44:08] Trustee Bernardo: you clarify for me what extra part you're referring to?

[3:44:13] Trustee Bernardo: to yeah like what does that mean i

[3:44:16] Trustee Stamford: just want a basic this this is the part i had trouble with

[3:44:22] Trustee Stamford: i know what i don't want but i can't figure out specifically how to clarify it um and it's around

[3:44:29] Trustee Stamford: the idea that because it's not native we can do what we want with it and you know who cares

[3:44:36] Trustee Stamford: but we do care it's within that setback we have to minimize all work done and it's not a question

[3:44:45] Trustee Stamford: just throwing a few tiles on the beach i don't you know especially in your small lots where are

[3:44:50] Trustee Stamford: you going to put all those asphalt tiles you're going to store them in the most logical place

[3:44:55] Trustee Stamford: which is probably by the beach off to the side

[3:44:58] Voice 10: no i mean if you repair your roof you're under

[3:45:01] Voice 10: an obligation

[3:45:02] Trustee Bernardo: to cart the stuff away because you know that that's explicit in the uh you know

[3:45:10] Trustee Bernardo: don't disturb undisturbed land or need of vegetation if somebody wants to stack up the

[3:45:15] Trustee Bernardo: shingles in a shed they already have that's their problem if they want to do the smart thing and

[3:45:18] Trustee Bernardo: cart them away or or something like that even better but it's not on for anybody to sort of

[3:45:25] Trustee Bernardo: throw them around in in in undisturbed land or on the beach i mean

[3:45:29] Trustee Stamford: that's okay so i i'm

[3:45:30] Trustee Stamford: I'm digging around

[3:45:31] Trustee Stamford: here, but here's a very realistic example.

[3:45:35] Trustee Stamford: You take all your asphalt tiles off.

[3:45:37] Trustee Stamford: You've got your lawn that goes right down to the water or to the foreshore.

[3:45:42] Trustee Stamford: You pile them up in a corner, nice and neat, right by the foreshore.

[3:45:48] Trustee Stamford: On your lawn, which is disturbed.

[3:45:51] Trustee Stamford: Consider disturbed land in this explanation.

[3:45:54] Trustee Stamford: And that's where they sit.

[3:45:56] Trustee Stamford: that is a very realistic normal way of dealing with things because you don't have the capacity

[3:46:03] Trustee Stamford: to take those tiles off at this point so it's not throwing them anywhere it's trying to be

[3:46:11] Trustee Stamford: responsible you pile them all up but it's within that seven and a half meter setback

[3:46:15] Trustee Stamford: so i'm just trying to get more uh tighter uh discussion around that word around undisturbed

[3:46:23] Trustee Stamford: Because right now I see many of those little lots are on disturbed land, which, by this definition, gives them, entitles them to pretty much do what they want within that seven years

[3:46:36] Voice 11: while they're doing construction.

[3:46:39] Voice 11: construction well okay but um i'm

[3:46:45] Trustee Bernardo: repeating myself but if the if the point is that you're

[3:46:48] Trustee Bernardo: not the general point is you can't you can do your repair or maintenance without but you have to do

[3:46:54] Trustee Bernardo: it without degrading the ecology i don't know what more you want from that well i would like

[3:46:59] Trustee Bernardo: when to go back to the native vegetation point uh uh yeah you know i don't know like i'm not

[3:47:09] Trustee Bernardo: I'm not comfortable with the idea that removing the word native would allow, for example, a person, if somebody wanted to replace their lawn, for example, with actually native species, and they were treating that essentially as kind of like they're maintaining their yard by changing the lawn to native species, removing the word native,

[3:47:34] Voice 12: they can't rip up their lawn without a DP.

[3:47:36] Voice 12: pay we're

[3:47:38] Trustee Stamford: talking about two different things so i'm talking about work done on construction

[3:47:43] Trustee Stamford: around your

[3:47:44] Voice 10: okay yeah okay that's okay that's okay you know that's a fair

[3:47:47] Voice 10: point that's a fair

[3:47:48] Voice 10: point i

[3:47:49] Trustee Stamford: on keats so many of these little cabins are within that setback and i know it's hard

[3:47:54] Trustee Stamford: so that's the part i'm concerned about and then there's exemptions underneath to say yeah you can

[3:48:01] Trustee Stamford: mow your lawn, you can do things for everyday use. I'm looking at working on construction

[3:48:08] Trustee Stamford: and doing your utmost not to make that area disturbed because it's so vulnerable to other

[3:48:17] Trustee Stamford: processes that then affect the foreshore. I wish I had wording, but it triggered on that

[3:48:26] Trustee Stamford: that undisturbed land or vegetation,

[3:48:28] Trustee Stamford: because most of Kate's area that's built up is disturbed.

[3:48:33] Trustee Stamford: So I would be going, oh, I can do what I want in this area.

[3:48:36] Trustee Stamford: Well,

[3:48:37] Trustee Luckham: I want to intercede here.

[3:48:39] Trustee Luckham: Can I just break in, Joe, please?

[3:48:42] Trustee Luckham: I don't think we're getting anywhere with this.

[3:48:44] Trustee Luckham: No.

[3:48:46] Trustee Luckham: And it could take,

[3:48:50] Trustee Luckham: I don't think this is actually resolvable

[3:48:52] Trustee Luckham: in the context that we're in,

[3:48:53] Trustee Luckham: because one, Kate, not your fault,

[3:48:55] Trustee Luckham: I admire and appreciate the protection you're trying to do.

[3:48:58] Trustee Luckham: And actually, at the same time, Joe, I admire and appreciate the effort you put into this

[3:49:02] Trustee Luckham: language to try and make this work.

[3:49:04] Trustee Luckham: And I do understand it.

[3:49:07] Trustee Luckham: I don't know that the issues that you're raising here, Kate, of which I totally respect,

[3:49:13] Trustee Luckham: are necessarily achievable in the context of this section and what we're talking about.

[3:49:20] Trustee Luckham: And there's some principle, very principled things that you're talking about there that

[3:49:24] Trustee Luckham: that are essential to living lightly on the land.

[3:49:27] Trustee Luckham: And maybe there's somewhere else

[3:49:30] Trustee Luckham: that that could be captured rather than here.

[3:49:32] Trustee Luckham: And I'd appreciate anything

[3:49:33] Trustee Luckham: that staff might have to offer with that.

[3:49:35] Trustee Luckham: But I just wanna remind us for a moment

[3:49:37] Trustee Luckham: that what we're trying to do is to get the public hearing

[3:49:40] Trustee Luckham: with a bylaw that is close.

[3:49:43] Trustee Luckham: And that if there's intentions or visions

[3:49:47] Trustee Luckham: or demonstrations of living lightly on the land

[3:49:51] Trustee Luckham: that could be added into the bylaws

[3:49:54] Trustee Luckham: in some kind of visionary or conceptual framework

[3:49:57] Trustee Luckham: that does not change the intent of the bilogue.

[3:50:00] Trustee Luckham: If this language that Joe has presented here

[3:50:04] Trustee Luckham: is reasonably close,

[3:50:08] Trustee Luckham: and maybe if you just change the word from ecology

[3:50:11] Trustee Luckham: to some other magic word that might be suitable,

[3:50:13] Trustee Luckham: you wouldn't necessarily be changing the intent.

[3:50:16] Trustee Luckham: Because I think we want to go through this process,

[3:50:18] Trustee Luckham: get some feedback from the public here,

[3:50:20] Trustee Luckham: and then advance this through the readings to get to a place where we can call this project

[3:50:27] Trustee Luckham: complete so I hope that helps but some things I just got to say cannot be solved by regulation

[3:50:34] Trustee Luckham: alone and this is I think pretty close so

[3:50:39] Trustee Stamford: the only thing I I'd like to stress it's okay is I'm

[3:50:44] Trustee Stamford: better with um if it says conducted entirely within the footprint of the existing building

[3:50:51] Trustee Stamford: structure utility and does not otherwise or does not degrade the ecology of dp3 fine

[3:50:59] Voice 11: i mean that was a job because i'm concerned because um fine okay so k putting on the spot

[3:51:14] Trustee Luckham: here can you articulate from the beginning of that underlined repair and maintenance

[3:51:20] Trustee Luckham: all the way to the Development Permit 3,

[3:51:22] Trustee Luckham: what it is that you just said

[3:51:23] Trustee Luckham: so that we can capture that in the minute.

[3:51:26] Voice 10: I caught it.

[3:51:26] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, where the second to last line of 9.3.2

[3:51:33] Trustee Bernardo: be changed by removing the words

[3:51:36] Trustee Bernardo: alter undisturbed land or need of vacation

[3:51:39] Trustee Bernardo: or otherwise delete that.

[3:51:41] Trustee Bernardo: So it says, does not agree the ecology of DP3.

[3:51:46] Voice 11: Okay.

[3:51:47] Voice 11: So if we can all live with that,

[3:51:50] Voice 11: Let's do that.

[3:51:54] Voice 10: That covers it.

[3:51:55] Voice 10: That's fine.

[3:51:56] Trustee Luckham: So at 1.2.2, we're deleting

[3:52:00] Voice 11: the words.

[3:52:08] Voice 11: Deleting the words alter undisturbed land

[3:52:12] Voice 11: or native vegetation or otherwise.

[3:52:19] Voice 11: Okay, I got it.

[3:52:32] Voice 11: Okay, well, good, that's great.

[3:52:35] Trustee Luckham: great so we we've achieved that so can we continue are we ready

[3:52:40] Trustee Luckham: to continue i

[3:52:42] Trustee Stamford: um chair

[3:52:43] Trustee Stamford: look i just appreciate you letting me talk about this because i don't i haven't had the opportunity

[3:52:49] Trustee Stamford: to really dig into it from that perspective yeah i'm coming to this but i i

[3:52:55] Trustee Stamford: certainly want to make

[3:52:57] Trustee Stamford: it workable so there

[3:52:59] Voice 11: that's okay understood all right um and here we have now the um

[3:53:11] Trustee Bernardo: where are we here let's go back to the text so i can look at it make sure i'm looking at the

[3:53:15] Trustee Bernardo: right copy where are you joe sorry uh we have now moved on to 9.3.2 b and this is this is the thing

[3:53:30] Trustee Bernardo: that i think we should agree on because it follows on on the thing that we just discussed this is the

[3:53:35] Trustee Bernardo: exemption that allows the repair of soft shoreline protection measures and we already discussed that

[3:53:39] Trustee Bernardo: so i think we're in the clear on that one

[3:53:41] Trustee Luckham: okay so before we get so we're in the general guidelines

[3:53:45] Trustee Luckham: now if i'm not mistaken so everything now

[3:53:47] Trustee Bernardo: no no no no no no no we're in exemptions we just

[3:53:50] Trustee Bernardo: dealt with the first one oh actually i'm not seeing the three no no 9.3.2 a we just dealt

[3:53:59] Trustee Bernardo: with we're not going

[3:54:00] Trustee Bernardo: to deal with b okay so that's my question yes and b we actually discussed it

[3:54:06] Trustee Bernardo: when we were discussing 9.3.1 and we had the back and forth about the repair shrine protection

[3:54:12] Trustee Bernardo: measures blah blah blah and trustee stanford said she was fine with it uh she expressed some

[3:54:17] Trustee Bernardo: thoughts about it we talked about it and here uh we've got the exemption allows people to repair

[3:54:26] Trustee Bernardo: soft shoreline protection measures provided they were originally designed and implemented

[3:54:30] Trustee Bernardo: at the direction of a qualified professional and any repair has to stay within the original

[3:54:36] Trustee Bernardo: design parameters so we covered this already yeah we

[3:54:41] Trustee Luckham: okay with this yeah so then that would include

[3:54:44] Trustee Luckham: what is now referred to as b c d e and f at the end of that page yeah

[3:54:49] Trustee Stamford: okay

[3:54:50] Trustee Luckham: so we're then we're

[3:54:51] Trustee Luckham: now on page 52 at g no

[3:54:57] Voice 11: we no

[3:54:59] Trustee Bernardo: no we just what tracy samford has just agreed is she's fine with

[3:55:05] Trustee Bernardo: 2b now we're moving on to 2c and i just asked that are we okay with that and she said yes

[3:55:12] Trustee Bernardo: oh okay sorry i'm sorry i missed that point yeah

[3:55:15] Trustee Luckham: i have asked specifically c d e and f

[3:55:19] Trustee Luckham: are we okay with those

[3:55:20] Trustee Bernardo: i'm sorry am i my fault i missed all that

[3:55:23] Trustee Bernardo: okay okay with g we have a logical problem here which is um uh it seems to me that the

[3:55:34] Trustee Bernardo: construction of the fence that you don't want native trees removed but it should be all right

[3:55:38] Trustee Bernardo: to remove a non-native tree uh if it isn't then you have this weird situation where it's we're

[3:55:48] Trustee Bernardo: saying on the one hand it's okay to disturb non-native vegetation up to 0.5 meters except

[3:55:54] Trustee Bernardo: Except not trees.

[3:55:56] Voice 11: I mean, it doesn't quite work.

[3:55:59] Voice 11: I mean, the original language was referred to native species, native trees.

[3:56:10] Voice 11: Staff wanted to change that to just any tree.

[3:56:14] Voice 11: And I'm saying, no, just leave it at native trees.

[3:56:20] Voice 11: Okay. So.

[3:56:22] Voice 11: Well, yeah, I mean, I, it's

[3:56:25] Trustee Stamford: kind of the same thing, right?

[3:56:27] Trustee Stamford: I'm just like putting a fence in, keep it small.

[3:56:31] Trustee Stamford: small any kind of tree can can cause disturbance lower down so you know i don't really see the

[3:56:39] Trustee Stamford: difference between a regular tree and a native tree although most of them are native in that area

[3:56:46] Trustee Stamford: um if it i i'm willing to let this one move forward thank you

[3:56:57] Trustee Bernardo: moving on to H

[3:56:58] Trustee Bernardo: I

[3:57:00] Trustee Luckham: think we have just moved

[3:57:01] Trustee Luckham: to H

[3:57:02] Trustee Luckham: this

[3:57:03] Trustee Bernardo: is all about grammar really

[3:57:06] Voice 11: and

[3:57:14] Voice 11: let's see where are we here

[3:57:15] Voice 11: yeah

[3:57:19] Trustee Bernardo: just going on

[3:57:20] Trustee Bernardo: about it just read the section and

[3:57:22] Trustee Bernardo: let's hear what people have got

[3:57:24] Trustee Bernardo: to say about it

[3:57:25] Trustee Luckham: yeah well so presumably

[3:57:26] Trustee Luckham: we have all read these through

[3:57:28] Trustee Luckham: and so in your notes

[3:57:30] Trustee Luckham: is there anything of

[3:57:32] Trustee Luckham: concern here from eight on the rest of this page is what i would like to ask well

[3:57:37] Trustee Stamford: doing the h with

[3:57:39] Trustee Stamford: the the trees i i couldn't quite understand what the concern on the trail was so it's one

[3:57:44] Trustee Stamford: width of one meter or less consider the rest of the language i think it was a condition

[3:57:49] Trustee Stamford: so this is a grammar thing right yeah

[3:57:54] Trustee Bernardo: because the way it was staff proposed language would

[3:57:57] Trustee Bernardo: create a weird situation where trails of 99 centimeters were permitted but not one meter

[3:58:02] Trustee Bernardo: i mean it's just a grammar thing you know okay okay and and what my comment about a bullet or

[3:58:12] Trustee Bernardo: item two there a roman numeral or letter two yeah is that staff was proposing um this imperative

[3:58:22] Trustee Bernardo: language that um you know uh everything else speaks in the present tense i mean like again

[3:58:30] Trustee Bernardo: it's it's it's a grammar thing you know and the native tree stuff is original with with what was

[3:58:38] Trustee Bernardo: there anyhow it's this has all been

[3:58:39] Voice 11: rewritten to read better i mean that's about it okay i mean

[3:58:47] Voice 11: honestly all i'm interested

[3:58:49] Trustee Stamford: in is trails are minimized their impact is minimized anything

[3:58:54] Trustee Stamford: that happens in this setback area is minimal that's sort of why i keep coming to this but

[3:59:00] Trustee Stamford: But I hear you.

[3:59:02] Voice 12: And I don't think what I like, it wasn't my intention to change the meaning of H.

[3:59:05] Voice 12: It was to make it more intelligible.

[3:59:07] Trustee Stamford: Okay.

[3:59:08] Voice 12: All right.

[3:59:08] Voice 12: That's the point.

[3:59:10] Voice 12: Okay.

[3:59:10] Voice 12: We don't want trails that are big.

[3:59:12] Trustee Bernardo: And frankly, we don't want trails that people are building.

[3:59:15] Trustee Bernardo: So they can run their golf carts or whatever the hell they're driving around.

[3:59:18] Trustee Bernardo: We don't want any of that for sure.

[3:59:21] Trustee Bernardo: And, you know, all those provisions about, you know, for personal non-vehicular use.

[3:59:25] Trustee Bernardo: And, you know, we want things that are

[3:59:27] Trustee Bernardo: permeable to water, all that kind of stuff, you know.

[3:59:30] Trustee Stamford: Okay.

[3:59:30] Trustee Stamford: Okay, so M is is a bit of a bugger for me.

[3:59:33] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, we're zooming ahead to M.

[3:59:35] Trustee Stamford: Yeah. Yeah, I'm good with everything else. Okay.

[3:59:39] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, now, the original language wasn't great, but I think Trustee Sanford will recall that one of the objections when this bylaw passed first reading was that the vegetation removal provisions.

[4:00:00] Trustee Bernardo: wouldn't allow people to follow the best provincial guidelines to prevent their place

[4:00:04] Trustee Bernardo: like for fire prevention

[4:00:06] Voice 11: fire

[4:00:07] Trustee Bernardo: smart guidance they need to be able to clear um vegetation

[4:00:13] Trustee Bernardo: around their dwellings uh so to you know to follow fire

[4:00:19] Voice 12: smart i mean that's the provincial guidance

[4:00:20] Voice 12: i mean we're not i mean i get it you know preserving the pristine nature of the

[4:00:27] Voice 12: of the foreshore at the cost of putting people's houses at risk uh that's uh i can't support that

[4:00:33] Voice 12: i'll tell you that i

[4:00:34] Trustee Stamford: well yeah can i um i'd like to hear from planner mccard because yeah there's

[4:00:39] Trustee Stamford: the opposite side of that so yeah anyway

[4:00:42] Planner McCargar: well through the chair i think it was originally

[4:00:45] Planner McCargar: deleted uh the red l because n really kind of speaks to it does it not and yes i think yeah

[4:00:54] Planner McCargar: it was just sort of redundant to have it in two places yeah

[4:00:57] Trustee Bernardo: but there actually mean two different

[4:00:59] Trustee Bernardo: things one is an emergency work because there's an immediate threat the other one is in terms of

[4:01:06] Trustee Bernardo: being able to follow the the provincial guidance about how to maintain your property property so

[4:01:11] Trustee Bernardo: it doesn't to minimize the potential future threat of a wildfire if it happens uh hitting your

[4:01:17] Trustee Bernardo: property well that that that's the idea of it i mean if there's better wording to to get to that

[4:01:24] Trustee Bernardo: through the

[4:01:24] Trustee Bernardo: chair it has the word

[4:01:25] Planner McCargar: prevent in it emergency works required to prevent

[4:01:29] Planner McCargar: control or reduce yeah would prevention not cover the

[4:01:34] Trustee Stamford: way i read m is it negates everything above it

[4:01:38] Trustee Stamford: it's like it takes any kind of protections out because protecting your house uh using fire smart

[4:01:46] Trustee Stamford: more, um, prioritizes as opposed to Trump's everything else.

[4:01:51] Trustee Stamford: And I'm not sure that is an accurate way of interpreting it, but that's how I read him.

[4:01:59] Trustee Bernardo: Well, my problem was, you know, if we could collapse it to, uh, into one, I'd be fine

[4:02:05] Trustee Bernardo: with it.

[4:02:05] Trustee Bernardo: But my problem is we're talking about emergency works required to prevent.

[4:02:10] Trustee Bernardo: Okay.

[4:02:11] Trustee Bernardo: But it's an emergency, uh, to control, to prevent or reduce an immediate threat to

[4:02:17] Trustee Bernardo: human life um fire smart stuff and and that kind of uh sensible protection of your property uh is

[4:02:25] Trustee Bernardo: not to deal with an immediate threat it is is to prevent a potential future threat it really

[4:02:31] Trustee Bernardo: wouldn't fall within the meaning of emergency that's my difficulty i mean if there's some way

[4:02:35] Trustee Bernardo: of fiddling with that language to to bring it in uh can

[4:02:40] Trustee Luckham: i try and help here yes um because i've

[4:02:44] Trustee Luckham: thought about this particular aspect of these things significantly but if the recorder is

[4:02:48] Trustee Luckham: writing I'll speak slowly but I would suggest that section n be reworded to say works required

[4:02:58] Trustee Luckham: to prevent control or reduce an immediate threat to human life the natural environment or public

[4:03:05] Trustee Luckham: or private properly in accordance with provincial guidance regarding wildfire prevention and

[4:03:11] Trustee Luckham: mitigation including colon and then it would just continue I think that captures it okay

[4:03:17] Trustee Bernardo: well hang

[4:03:19] Trustee Bernardo: on hang on um I don't have a problem with the addition uh in accordance with you know provincial

[4:03:27] Trustee Bernardo: guidance all that jazz but if we're going to delete the word emergency I would want to take

[4:03:31] Trustee Bernardo: out the word immediate threat because I don't with the word immediate I'm not satisfied it gives

[4:03:35] Trustee Bernardo: gives people the room to be able to to do that preventative stuff you know uh that's you know

[4:03:43] Voice 12: look climate change

[4:03:44] Trustee Bernardo: is the single biggest risk the single biggest risk we are faced on every

[4:03:48] Trustee Bernardo: one of these islands is is the risk of wildfire as a result of climate change

[4:03:52] Voice 10: and uh

[4:03:53] Trustee Bernardo: people need

[4:03:54] Trustee Bernardo: to be able to manage our properties to to reduce that threat it's not an immediate threat but it's

[4:04:00] Trustee Bernardo: a real threat uh so how about we to say works required to prevent control or reduce a threat

[4:04:07] Trustee Bernardo: to human life the natural environment or or

[4:04:10] Voice 11: we can just

[4:04:12] Trustee Luckham: say use the word risk instead of immediate

[4:04:14] Trustee Luckham: threat or

[4:04:16] Voice 11: loss uh

[4:04:17] Trustee Bernardo: yeah or reduce risk to human life risk or loss yeah yeah that works so

[4:04:26] Trustee Stamford: i so

[4:04:27] Trustee Stamford: So I'm going to go back to a real world example.

[4:04:30] Trustee Stamford: Regardless of the fire risk, if I wanted my view and my setback had trees in front of it, I would use this.

[4:04:41] Trustee Stamford: And that would be it.

[4:04:43] Trustee Stamford: I could very easily say, well, I cut my trees down because I was concerned about forest fire.

[4:04:50] Trustee Stamford: And that's what I can pull up a brochure that says best practices for FireSmart says I have to cut the trees down.

[4:05:02] Trustee Stamford: I find this.

[4:05:04] Trustee Bernardo: If I can interject, I think that that is not an issue, because if you look above, there's an exemption for the removal of trees that provide an immediate threat to life or property.

[4:05:17] Trustee Bernardo: That should be the exclusive exemption for the removal of trees.

[4:05:22] Trustee Bernardo: I think we're agreed.

[4:05:24] Trustee Bernardo: so um you're

[4:05:26] Voice 11: speaking specifically to vegetation right well i'm looking up an l

[4:05:33] Voice 11: the

[4:05:34] Trustee Bernardo: the new l where it says the removal of trees opposing like uh with fast changes it says the

[4:05:40] Trustee Bernardo: removal of trees oppose immediate threat to life or property as determined by an arborist etc

[4:05:45] Trustee Bernardo: and that's in writing that that on that basis a person has an exemption to remove a tree and only

[4:05:52] Trustee Bernardo: on that basis and it seems to me if we're clear that that's the only basis then that would address

[4:05:59] Voice 3: yeah we

[4:06:00] Trustee Bernardo: are concerned about n being exploited to to justify somebody knocking a tree down to

[4:06:07] Trustee Bernardo: preserve their view or something and

[4:06:10] Trustee Stamford: so just so so where i'm coming from on this is yeah i mean

[4:06:15] Trustee Stamford: people need to be able to protect their homes um and and do what is reasonable with fire smart

[4:06:22] Trustee Stamford: um i would eventually like to get more research done on fire smart on how you do deal with the

[4:06:29] Trustee Stamford: foreshore because i think it is a little bit different um what happened um what four years

[4:06:35] Trustee Stamford: ago with the heat dome those areas where trees have been taken down along the foreshore the

[4:06:44] Trustee Stamford: The impact of the heat dome was multiple times greater than where trees were left.

[4:06:52] Trustee Stamford: And so this is, again, how do we accommodate the needs of the owners with what is happening in climate change and the ability for the foreshore to regenerate in extreme circumstances?

[4:07:08] Trustee Stamford: Fire is a big problem for humans on these islands.

[4:07:14] Trustee Stamford: But there are other impacts that are a big problem for the protection of biodiversity in the foreshore.

[4:07:23] Trustee Stamford: So I'm trying to find ways to mitigate those both.

[4:07:28] Trustee Bernardo: Well, a forest fire that sweeps across Keats Island, I can tell you, the foreshore is screwed.

[4:07:35] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, all that, you know, there are trees and areas in the forest.

[4:07:43] Trustee Bernardo: there's been forest fires on that island before and those fires don't stay on the interior they

[4:07:48] Trustee Bernardo: run all the way to the forest shore depending where the fire is so preventing that risk is

[4:07:57] Trustee Bernardo: important in any event the point i brought up before was we do have an exemption that contemplates

[4:08:03] Trustee Bernardo: that you remove trees when they're an immediate threat to life it's i would interpret that

[4:08:10] Trustee Bernardo: as limiting the removal of trees to that and not for other purposes i don't know if that helps

[4:08:16] Trustee Bernardo: but the direction we were going with the chairs suggested edits seem helpful yeah and if we go

[4:08:22] Trustee Bernardo: that way we could then delete m okay

[4:08:24] Voice 11: so

[4:08:26] Trustee Bernardo: um let's see if we can tune up the language here for n

[4:08:30] Trustee Bernardo: N. Let's assume we delete M and N is changed by saying, let's see, delete the word emergency

[4:08:42] Voice 11: and delete immediate threat. And what was the language the chair was using?

[4:08:52] Voice 11: Risk or loss. I like risk.

[4:09:00] Voice 11: I'm

[4:09:00] Trustee Luckham: wanting to use both words, so not choose between risk or loss, but the sentence should

[4:09:06] Trustee Luckham: say risk or loss.

[4:09:10] Voice 11: Okay.

[4:09:11] Voice 11: And again, you know, this is language.

[4:09:24] Trustee Luckham: We can put any words in there.

[4:09:25] Trustee Luckham: And at post-public hearing, we can alter the words because we're not changing the intent.

[4:09:31] Voice 11: We're

[4:09:32] Trustee Luckham: trying to get the public hearing.

[4:09:36] Trustee Bernardo: Okay.

[4:09:37] Trustee Bernardo: Let's see.

[4:09:37] Trustee Bernardo: where we're at right now is we delete the word emergency delete and immediate the words

[4:09:42] Trustee Bernardo: immediate threat replace them with risk or loss uh

[4:09:49] Voice 11: and i think um you were referring to using that um

[4:10:03] Trustee Bernardo: well actually in accordance with provincial guidance wildfire that doesn't actually work

[4:10:07] Trustee Bernardo: there because there's a whole bunch of different things there so i think the language if we go with

[4:10:12] Trustee Bernardo: this language delete the word emergency delete and immediate threat and replace it with risk or loss

[4:10:17] Trustee Bernardo: can does that work

[4:10:18] Voice 11: yep all

[4:10:21] Trustee Bernardo: right well let's do it that way then you

[4:10:24] Voice 11: go okay with

[4:10:25] Trustee Luckham: that trustee

[4:10:25] Trustee Luckham: stanford yeah

[4:10:27] Trustee Stamford: yep i am i'm worried about this the interpretation of this one but i i do recognize

[4:10:34] Trustee Stamford: this is a big issue so

[4:10:36] Trustee Luckham: yeah and so i just want to make sure that uh although i'm keeping notes here

[4:10:41] Trustee Luckham: I just want to make sure that the recorder has that concept embraced.

[4:10:47] Voice 4: I wasn't sure if you wanted to add what you suggested originally in accordance with provincial

[4:10:53] Voice 4: guidelines. I

[4:10:55] Trustee Luckham: think we've not got the support for that particularly. Okay

[4:10:57] Voice 4: all right yes I do have it

[4:10:59] Voice 4: then. Excellent

[4:11:00] Trustee Luckham: thank you very much. So let us continue on then and I think the next section

[4:11:05] Trustee Luckham: I see that has red and purple blended together is MOPQ,

[4:11:11] Voice 11: the subdivision of. Are we okay with that?

[4:11:18] Voice 11: Hang on. Yeah, that's just grammatical fooling around there.

[4:11:24] Voice 11: Can you agree with that?

[4:11:29] Voice 11: I'm not

[4:11:30] Voice 12: qualified.

[4:11:32] Voice 12: Well, sorry, no. That's actually substantive change there

[4:11:36] Trustee Bernardo: because the language that staff

[4:11:41] Trustee Bernardo: was suggesting was that a covenant should be in favor of the island's trust but at one point

[4:11:46] Trustee Bernardo: 2.4 of the lub explicitly requires covenants to be uh in favor of gambier the lta so

[4:11:53] Voice 11: that has to

[4:11:53] Voice 11: be changed i mean we

[4:12:01] Trustee Bernardo: can't say in favor of the island's trust i mean the bylaw already tells

[4:12:04] Trustee Bernardo: we've already established a bylaw that requires all covenants to be in favor of the of the lta

[4:12:11] Trustee Stamford: um for conservation covenants as well though because i think i mean we do conservation

[4:12:16] Trustee Stamford: and conservation covenants outside of the Islands Trust?

[4:12:21] Trustee Bernardo: Well, 1.2.4 doesn't draw that distinction, I don't think.

[4:12:26] Trustee Luckham: Well, we need some clarity on that

[4:12:28] Trustee Luckham: because that means that every single one of these things

[4:12:30] Trustee Luckham: is going to have to go before council

[4:12:32] Trustee Luckham: and that I see as untenable.

[4:12:35] Trustee Luckham: I think it does need to be with the local trust committee.

[4:12:38] Trustee Luckham: So wherever it is that you're referring to that

[4:12:40] Trustee Luckham: and Planner McCargar, the intention is not that council

[4:12:44] Trustee Luckham: would have to endorse these covenants.

[4:12:50] Trustee Luckham: I think when you use the word island trust,

[4:12:54] Trustee Luckham: it's probably intentional

[4:12:57] Trustee Luckham: that that be the local trust committee.

[4:12:59] Voice 11: Would that be correct or not?

[4:13:04] Voice 11: I'm not even seeing where that language is.

[4:13:07] Voice 11: Yeah, I'm

[4:13:08] Trustee Stamford: confused about this one.

[4:13:09] Planner McCargar: I don't know if I have any suggestion.

[4:13:14] Planner McCargar: I'm feeling a bit confused.

[4:13:15] Planner McCargar: I did bring up the one section 1.2.4

[4:13:18] Planner McCargar: where it talks about covenants in the zoning bylaw it's on the screen here okay

[4:13:24] Trustee Luckham: thank you uh

[4:13:25] Trustee Luckham: not so where exactly

[4:13:26] Voice 11: is that this section here right there thank you yeah so that's what i would

[4:13:38] Voice 11: have expected yeah does that make sense trustee bernardo i've

[4:13:46] Trustee Bernardo: lost track here i'm sorry what was

[4:13:48] Trustee Bernardo: the last comment here please oh

[4:13:49] Trustee Luckham: so uh flannery mccargo has brought up on her screen the quotation

[4:13:53] Trustee Luckham: from the existing documents that indicate

[4:13:57] Trustee Luckham: that the covenants are granted

[4:14:02] Trustee Luckham: to the local trust committee, et cetera.

[4:14:05] Trustee Bernardo: Yep, that's 1.2.6, right?

[4:14:09] Trustee Luckham: Yep.

[4:14:09] Trustee Bernardo: And it says any covenant.

[4:14:11] Trustee Bernardo: So it's to the local trust committee.

[4:14:17] Voice 11: And so where do you see the language different in Q?

[4:14:21] Voice 11: q well it's different because i've changed

[4:14:28] Trustee Bernardo: it over uh because it used to say um it originally

[4:14:36] Trustee Bernardo: said gambler island local trust committee which is fine which is appropriate staff then changed

[4:14:42] Trustee Bernardo: it to islands trust then i'm saying no no you can't do that it's got to be to the local trust

[4:14:48] Trustee Bernardo: committee and i did some other fiddling to just make it the language clearer but staff also did

[4:14:56] Trustee Bernardo: a bunch of that but now i think it does the job because 1.2.6 contemplates that every covenant

[4:15:05] Trustee Bernardo: is going to be in favor of the local trust committee so in that case all we have to say

[4:15:12] Trustee Bernardo: is this observation the exemption is available for the subdivision of parcels with a conservation

[4:15:20] Trustee Bernardo: covenant on title for the maintenance of mental drainage because by definition the covenant will

[4:15:27] Trustee Bernardo: be in favor of um the trust committee so i think it does the job um

[4:15:34] Trustee Stamford: can i can we like defer that

[4:15:36] Trustee Stamford: one for for further um review because i mean we've just done a conservation covenant with

[4:15:45] Trustee Stamford: with DL 696, some of them are, I don't think they're all in the LTC.

[4:15:56] Trustee Luckham: Can I, I think that this is actually just a typo here, where it says, it originally said

[4:16:03] Trustee Luckham: Islands Trust Conservancy Board Islands Trust has already been registered. I think that that

[4:16:08] Trustee Luckham: should have said, or the Islands Trust Conservancy where a covenant has already been registered.

[4:16:14] Trustee Luckham: I don't think that the word island's trust even belongs in there.

[4:16:17] Trustee Luckham: Blana McCarger, would you agree with that?

[4:16:19] Planner McCargar: Yeah, I would.

[4:16:20] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[4:16:21] Trustee Luckham: So that's just a typo.

[4:16:23] Trustee Luckham: And so let's not get hung up on that.

[4:16:25] Trustee Luckham: Does Q

[4:16:26] Trustee Bernardo: work as written?

[4:16:28] Trustee Bernardo: Pardon?

[4:16:30] Trustee Bernardo: Is your view, Chair, that the Q as written does the job?

[4:16:34] Voice 11: Yes.

[4:16:37] Voice 11: Yes, because that's all deleted.

[4:16:39] Voice 11: Okay.

[4:16:41] Voice 11: All right.

[4:16:43] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah.

[4:16:43] Trustee Bernardo: So if Trustee Sanford, perhaps we can move on.

[4:16:46] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, please do.

[4:16:47] Trustee Stamford: yeah okay uh

[4:16:49] Trustee Bernardo: no problem you know uh r that's a grammatical thing now that brings us to the end

[4:16:53] Trustee Bernardo: of the exemptions it uh as as drafted here except and i'm happy that we've made progress on two of

[4:17:00] Trustee Bernardo: the three major issues i have in mind but uh i have to refer you back to uh my memo uh because

[4:17:07] Trustee Bernardo: there is a subject or there is a um when i provided my further comments uh i didn't anticipate

[4:17:15] Trustee Bernardo: anticipate that i would be uh i didn't anticipate the need to insert the the new text for this you

[4:17:23] Trustee Bernardo: know exemption uh i suppose they showed up in any event uh the memo if you were calling i i have a

[4:17:31] Trustee Bernardo: whole section here that talks about construction within dpa3 i'm not going to talk about it but

[4:17:35] Trustee Bernardo: the exemption i had in mind uh is to this effect which and the whole point of it is is to allow

[4:17:43] Trustee Bernardo: allow people, and it's very similar to the repair and maintenance issue, but it's to allow people

[4:17:50] Trustee Bernardo: to alter and make additions to their buildings, structures, utilities, et cetera, on, I'm dreading

[4:18:00] Trustee Bernardo: using the word, on undisturbed land. Can

[4:18:04] Planner McCargar: you just specify what guideline you're referring to,

[4:18:10] Planner McCargar: what number or letter

[4:18:11] Voice 12: it doesn't exist i'm not talking about adding

[4:18:14] Trustee Bernardo: an exemption and i've

[4:18:16] Trustee Bernardo: introduced it i'll read out the language i have in mind um and if we want to we can put it up on

[4:18:22] Trustee Bernardo: the screen it's in the memo that's in included in our package because it's the original memo i sent

[4:18:29] Trustee Bernardo: and it's on page 12 of that we probably should

[4:18:32] Voice 12: do that it's on page 12 of of the memo so you're

[4:18:35] Trustee Luckham: talking about adding a new exemption let's call it t for because that s was the last one exact

[4:18:40] Trustee Luckham: this is a new exemption t that would read and

[4:18:44] Voice 11: let's get it up on the screen

[4:18:45] Voice 14: yep okay

[4:18:56] Voice 11: so let's

[4:18:57] Voice 11: help us there is that

[4:18:59] Trustee Luckham: miscellaneous drafting issues uh

[4:19:01] Trustee Bernardo: no it's it's above that uh it's on

[4:19:03] Trustee Bernardo: page 12 of the memo which is uh whatever here we go there it is alterations or additions to

[4:19:10] Trustee Bernardo: building structures and utilities and alterations to land provided always that any such alterations

[4:19:16] Trustee Bernardo: or additions take place between 7.5 meters and 15 meters from the natural boundary of the sea

[4:19:22] Trustee Bernardo: and so that's basically saying that that area of the 7.5 area which is

[4:19:30] Trustee Bernardo: already restricted it remains off limits uh and the work is entirely within the footprint

[4:19:36] Trustee Bernardo: print on existing structure utility or on previously disturbed land and does not alter

[4:19:43] Trustee Bernardo: blah blah blah um i would you know obviously this would have to change to be to follow the change

[4:19:50] Trustee Bernardo: that we have on the repair and maintenance exemption so

[4:19:56] Voice 12: the idea here i mean i don't want

[4:19:57] Voice 12: to have to take

[4:19:58] Trustee Bernardo: up air time by going through everything i said in the memo but the idea here

[4:20:01] Trustee Bernardo: here is if you've already got a dwelling or a building that's within dpa3 uh and a person is

[4:20:11] Trustee Bernardo: looking to make alterations or additions to something like that uh they ought to be able to

[4:20:17] Trustee Bernardo: do it if it's not going to make an ecological difference uh but you'll notice what i'm talking

[4:20:25] Trustee Bernardo: about here it's only in the extra 7.5 meters upland it's not the lowest yeah

[4:20:31] Voice 11: so that's the

[4:20:32] Trustee Bernardo: concept i'm

[4:20:34] Trustee Luckham: happy with that trustee stanford i

[4:20:37] Trustee Stamford: mean is there any problem with saying um does not

[4:20:42] Trustee Stamford: alter degrade the ecology of the area no

[4:20:47] Trustee Bernardo: no it's like we can we can actually um

[4:20:52] Trustee Bernardo: we can go back and and uh we can amend this so that it reads uh so it parallel it parallels the

[4:20:59] Trustee Bernardo: same kind of condition that we put in on just putting on the repair and maintenance thing

[4:21:04] Trustee Bernardo: that would be fine I mean it would deliver the same thing

[4:21:06] Planner McCargar: how is this sorry if I just I'm not

[4:21:10] Planner McCargar: entirely following how this is different from that that other exemption because this is allowing

[4:21:17] Planner McCargar: additions but I don't know how you could do an addition that's within the footprint of the

[4:21:23] Planner McCargar: existing building well

[4:21:25] Trustee Bernardo: that's not what it says um oh well that's right actually sorry my mistake

[4:21:30] Trustee Bernardo: state hang on but

[4:21:31] Voice 11: it says yeah and

[4:21:33] Trustee Bernardo: this is what i get for crafting this stuff late at night

[4:21:35] Trustee Bernardo: give me a second here plan ricardo may well be right so it while you're figuring

[4:21:44] Voice 11: words or

[4:21:46] Voice 11: addition yeah

[4:21:46] Trustee Bernardo: yeah the the uh the existing uh your plan ricardo is correct the entirely within

[4:21:52] Trustee Bernardo: footprint of the existing building let

[4:21:54] Voice 11: me think about this bear with me please i'm trying to

[4:22:01] Voice 11: recapture what my original thinking here was yeah um thank you planner for

[4:22:12] Trustee Bernardo: cargo for bringing that

[4:22:13] Trustee Bernardo: up because i think the language does belong there but to clarify it says additions and alterations

[4:22:19] Trustee Bernardo: then a lot jazz uh are permitted in that restricted area when they are entirely within

[4:22:26] Trustee Bernardo: the footprint of an existing building structure utility or

[4:22:28] Voice 11: on

[4:22:30] Trustee Bernardo: previously disturbed land so you

[4:22:34] Trustee Bernardo: could have an addition that extends out onto somebody's yard that's already like you know

[4:22:40] Trustee Bernardo: they want to add 200 square feet and they're going to approach on their lawn it makes no

[4:22:44] Trustee Bernardo: material difference to the environment so well

[4:22:48] Planner McCargar: we don't know that necessarily that's what the

[4:22:50] Planner McCargar: the dpa would you know the development permit would would tell us right as if because that's

[4:22:55] Planner McCargar: still this whole 15 meter dpa it's still a sensitive area so i think we want any development

[4:23:01] Planner McCargar: that's happening within that area unless you're replacing siding you're you know doing a really

[4:23:07] Planner McCargar: minor and uh repair or maintenance on your building we i think we do want a development

[4:23:13] Planner McCargar: permit well i don't think this is i don't think the seven and a half meters to the 15 meters is

[4:23:19] Planner McCargar: any less important yeah

[4:23:23] Trustee Luckham: there are other parameters associated with what the disturbance might be like

[4:23:27] Trustee Luckham: like shading or otherwise?

[4:23:31] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I guess this is the point of discussion

[4:23:34] Trustee Bernardo: for the trustees in that I need to hear reasons in principle

[4:23:43] Trustee Bernardo: about why it doesn't make sense to permit additions

[4:23:49] Trustee Bernardo: on land that's already been disturbed.

[4:23:53] Trustee Stamford: It's, yeah,

[4:23:55] Trustee Stamford: it's that land already being disturbed.

[4:23:56] Trustee Stamford: disturbed i i think we have a different idea of the importance of that um uh i you know i i was

[4:24:06] Trustee Stamford: just like well why why bother if we're including additions uh why bother having a dpa um well you

[4:24:15] Trustee Bernardo: know i i'm sorry but this is really frustrating to hear that because it the dpa uh it's about

[4:24:22] Trustee Bernardo: about proportionality the point of having the dpa if you have this type of exemption is that it's

[4:24:29] Trustee Bernardo: protecting what's what's native what's worth protecting what's still there you know and if

[4:24:37] Trustee Bernardo: you've got somebody who's had a lawn for 50 years they've decided they're going to put an extra 200

[4:24:41] Trustee Bernardo: square feet onto their house or they're going to extend a deck it's it doesn't make a material

[4:24:47] Trustee Bernardo: difference to the environment that

[4:24:49] Trustee Stamford: you don't have the expertise to say that neither do i i would

[4:24:53] Trustee Stamford: like to have that discussion specific to each scenario that comes up because i don't know what

[4:25:01] Trustee Stamford: the impact is necessarily and i've seen some really amazing additions i've seen some really

[4:25:09] Trustee Stamford: horrible ones that have had unintended impacts if we can see them as an ltc then we can have that

[4:25:16] Trustee Stamford: discussion and that the proponent can then speak to it and consider it themselves what are the

[4:25:24] Trustee Stamford: impacts in this sensitive area that's to me that's the point of the dpa is you can do the work but

[4:25:33] Trustee Stamford: you have that extra layer to say let's look at all the considerations here you're in a sensitive part

[4:25:40] Trustee Stamford: the island you're doing work in a sensitive place what do we need to do to make sure

[4:25:49] Trustee Stamford: it's done as sensitively as possible i

[4:25:52] Trustee Bernardo: think you're right i think you're right that we have

[4:25:54] Trustee Bernardo: a fundamental disagreement here because yeah i

[4:25:57] Trustee Bernardo: keep hearing this term sensitive i don't consider

[4:25:59] Trustee Bernardo: somebody who's been mowing the lawn for 50 years in the same patch and i've got a whole bunch of

[4:26:05] Trustee Bernardo: neighbors i can think of who have lawns god knows why but they seem to be interested in having them

[4:26:13] Trustee Bernardo: but um uh it's to me it's i wouldn't call that sensitive it's it's it isn't sensitive uh

[4:26:23] Trustee Bernardo: i'm talking about land that's had that's been pounded i mean there's been people on it for

[4:26:29] Trustee Bernardo: close to 100 years they've been messing around with it and we're going to introduce this

[4:26:34] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, not allowing people to put additions on that land is introducing, from my perspective, and I respect the fact that people disagree, a useless protection.

[4:26:44] Trustee Bernardo: It's not going to protect anything. It isn't sensitive.

[4:26:50] Trustee Bernardo: The foreshore that is, or the areas within the 15 meters that are undisturbed are sensitive, but previously disturbed land, it's not just because there happens to be a lawn over it.

[4:27:02] Trustee Bernardo: i mean it's been dug up it's been moved around it's been landscaped all i'm talking about here

[4:27:07] Trustee Bernardo: in land that's like that already it makes no difference if you allow people to add things to

[4:27:13] Trustee Bernardo: it but i i i doubt we're going to be able this is a real problem i doubt we're going to be able

[4:27:19] Trustee Bernardo: to resolve it today i'm going to suggest we stick we leave this as an outstanding issue

[4:27:27] Trustee Bernardo: and move on and try to resolve what we can uh with a view to eventually getting to a perhaps

[4:27:33] Trustee Bernardo: perhaps a document that has virtually everything

[4:27:35] Trustee Bernardo: in agreement except for this one provision,

[4:27:37] Trustee Bernardo: because this one's really important.

[4:27:42] Trustee Bernardo: And I'm really hoping we can find some way

[4:27:44] Trustee Bernardo: of finding an agreement about it,

[4:27:45] Trustee Bernardo: but we have limited time and I don't see us doing it today.

[4:27:48] Trustee Bernardo: This is going to be quite a bit more complicated,

[4:27:50] Trustee Bernardo: might require some redrafting, I don't know.

[4:27:53] Trustee Bernardo: That's my suggestion that we just skip this one.

[4:27:56] Trustee Luckham: Okay, I agree with that on principle,

[4:27:58] Trustee Luckham: but I think we need to reconsider the notion

[4:28:01] Trustee Luckham: of a 35-year-old lawn that's undisturbed land,

[4:28:04] Trustee Luckham: because there are lots of examples of undisturbed land

[4:28:07] Trustee Luckham: that has re-habituated.

[4:28:09] Trustee Luckham: And you could have a 35-year-old forest on disturbed land.

[4:28:14] Trustee Luckham: And so I think we need to understand the language

[4:28:18] Trustee Luckham: and the context in order to,

[4:28:20] Trustee Luckham: because that now is a newly sensitive land.

[4:28:22] Trustee Luckham: It's not about it everlastingly being sensitive,

[4:28:25] Trustee Luckham: but newly sensitive.

[4:28:26] Trustee Luckham: And that includes wildflowers on lawns for all that matters.

[4:28:30] Trustee Luckham: But anyway, I agree with you.

[4:28:31] Trustee Luckham: Let's move on because we're not going to resolve that one today.

[4:28:35] Trustee Luckham: And then what I want to do is just check in with you.

[4:28:37] Trustee Luckham: We're at 2.39.

[4:28:38] Trustee Luckham: How much longer do you want to go?

[4:28:41] Trustee Bernardo: I think we can wrap this up pretty quickly.

[4:28:44] Trustee Luckham: So what's quickly?

[4:28:45] Trustee Luckham: In an hour?

[4:28:48] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, easily.

[4:28:49] Trustee Luckham: So let's try and stick to that if we can, please.

[4:28:54] Trustee Luckham: And let's keep going.

[4:28:55] Trustee Luckham: So we've skipped over T.

[4:28:57] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to delete that.

[4:28:58] Trustee Luckham: and we're going on now to guidelines right

[4:29:03] Trustee Bernardo: uh for a reason i don't quite understand um staff removed

[4:29:07] Trustee Bernardo: um the reference to guidelines i don't know why but um the original thing contemplated

[4:29:15] Trustee Bernardo: exemptions on the one hand and guidelines on the other um and so uh there is a distinction here

[4:29:24] Trustee Bernardo: which is some of the you know guidelines are guidelines they're not mandatory so so let's

[4:29:30] Trustee Bernardo: be clear that we're talking about guidelines that assist staff in the interpretation of the bylaw

[4:29:35] Trustee Bernardo: and in its application and assist the public to understand what they're getting into

[4:29:40] Trustee Bernardo: for that reason they ought not to be mandated not really to use mandatory language

[4:29:47] Trustee Bernardo: anyhow that's what i'm trying to do here uh and at point three i mean that's that's um

[4:29:56] Trustee Bernardo: that's that's

[4:29:58] Voice 11: just mostly grammar there really

[4:30:00] Voice 11: You know, because it was kind of awkward.

[4:30:11] Voice 11: Now, are we fine with point three?

[4:30:15] Voice 11: Point three.

[4:30:18] Voice 11: Four, sorry.

[4:30:21] Voice 11: It's basically just saying the following guidelines apply.

[4:30:24] Voice 11: I mean, there's sort of wording issues, but if that's what they are, that's okay.

[4:30:48] Voice 11: Well, point three just basically introduces what is following.

[4:30:51] Voice 11: These are guidelines.

[4:30:55] Voice 11: i mean yeah like we don't need to tell people they need to apply to a development permit i mean i i

[4:31:02] Trustee Stamford: yeah i'm actually the clearer we can be the better i just we we do come across this so often joe

[4:31:10] Trustee Bernardo: yeah okay well like

[4:31:12] Voice 12: i didn't

[4:31:13] Trustee Bernardo: we're creating legal like we're creating legal requirements here we're

[4:31:16] Trustee Bernardo: not like if people need instructions given a pamphlet tell them they need to apply for these

[4:31:21] Trustee Bernardo: things but i mean um yeah but they don't agree i don't know but in any event if you're okay with

[4:31:27] Trustee Bernardo: point three let's move on see what we can clear up here can we do that yeah yeah all

[4:31:33] Trustee Bernardo: right uh

[4:31:35] Trustee Bernardo: we have general guidelines in this section uh a met staff's uh grammatical corrections that works

[4:31:44] Trustee Bernardo: uh b uh i deleted that uh because uh it's too generic um the public doesn't have a right to

[4:31:54] Trustee Bernardo: mark sue private property we need to be very specific of what public access we're talking

[4:31:58] Trustee Bernardo: about and there is a guideline later on in the section that talks about docs that says dock

[4:32:06] Trustee Bernardo: construction shouldn't result in any blockage of the public's access to the foreshore that was the

[4:32:13] Trustee Bernardo: the point that mr rogers is making early in his public comment uh it's a fair point it's already

[4:32:19] Trustee Bernardo: addressed by the bylaw this to an extent that b is intelligible it's redundant oh but if um

[4:32:30] Trustee Bernardo: and

[4:32:30] Trustee Stamford: and i see it's covered elsewhere i just want to make sure that if somebody wants to build a dock

[4:32:36] Trustee Stamford: They can look at a place and understand that whatever they decide to design has to follow these requirements, including cannot impede access along the foreshore.

[4:32:52] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, let's go to that section just so we can see it.

[4:32:55] Trustee Bernardo: Well,

[4:32:56] Planner McCargar: and if I can just interject for a minute, I think having it in the general guidelines, it would apply to things that aren't just necessarily docks.

[4:33:03] Voice 11: So

[4:33:04] Planner McCargar: there's other things that can impede access along the shoreline that aren't just docks, so that's why I had removed it from docks, because it was redundant to be in two places, but I think having it under the general is more applicable.

[4:33:19] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, but help me out here. What are these other things that could impede public access if they're not directly in the foreshore? Nobody in the public has a right to troop through DPA 3 when it's somebody else's private property. They have a right to make use and access the foreshore.

[4:33:39] Trustee Bernardo: like you can't like what else is it that could be built that could impede access on the foreshore

[4:33:46] Trustee Bernardo: other than

[4:33:47] Voice 11: docks and pilots it could be perhaps a shoreline modification for which a person has

[4:34:01] Voice 11: to get a development permit right yeah so

[4:34:06] Trustee Bernardo: and then they would have to follow your team over there

[4:34:09] Trustee Bernardo: is is is going to have the power to make sure that that

[4:34:15] Voice 11: development application or the development

[4:34:17] Voice 11: permit is conditional on on doing that yeah we would look to these guidelines okay um i mean

[4:34:31] Voice 11: for what it is does it really make that much difference if it goes back in it

[4:34:36] Trustee Bernardo: does to me

[4:34:36] Trustee Bernardo: because i don't want anybody to make them to to read such general language which i'm sorry is kind

[4:34:43] Trustee Bernardo: of loose that leads they could be read on could be read as an interpretive as somebody doesn't

[4:34:54] Trustee Bernardo: you know who's kind of willful about it

[4:34:55] Voice 11: that they've got a right to go through somebody's

[4:34:58] Voice 11: property i mean that's my concern i mean if you can come up with language

[4:35:05] Trustee Bernardo: i don't i mean

[4:35:05] Trustee Bernardo: you can repeat it if you want i don't care but i mean what i don't want is language is so general

[4:35:10] Trustee Bernardo: that it can create the impression that people have a right to go through private property when they

[4:35:16] Trustee Bernardo: don't that's okay

[4:35:18] Voice 12: so if you've got suggestions on how to fix the language i'm fine with that but

[4:35:24] Voice 12: even

[4:35:25] Trustee Stamford: sure where i am anymore i'm starting to lose the plot a bit

[4:35:27] Trustee Stamford: which

[4:35:28] Trustee Bernardo: if you want to and if trustee or sorry if planner mccarver thinks uh there's a risk

[4:35:34] Trustee Bernardo: that a shoreline protection measure um might impede access then we could add that in the

[4:35:40] Trustee Bernardo: shoreline protection measure area but i want to know specifically if there's anything else

[4:35:45] Trustee Bernardo: else that could do it i mean i'm having like you know fair point shoreline

[4:35:49] Voice 11: protection measure if

[4:35:50] Voice 11: it's if it's not i mean can it

[4:35:55] Trustee Bernardo: doesn't if a qualified professional is going to design the

[4:35:59] Trustee Bernardo: thing isn't it a isn't it a provincial requirement not to impede access to the forest shore they

[4:36:03] Trustee Bernardo: don't have a right to do that

[4:36:06] Voice 11: that is there's that side of it

[4:36:10] Trustee Stamford: and then the opposite side is

[4:36:12] Trustee Stamford: also you don't have a right to go on people's private property

[4:36:16] Trustee Luckham: yeah i think that these rights

[4:36:18] Trustee Luckham: exist in other laws and regulations and indeed yes to your answer Joe you cannot

[4:36:25] Trustee Luckham: impede access with any structure for people to be able to walk along the

[4:36:30] Trustee Luckham: shoreline below the high-water mark and I and I think you have to it's easy it's

[4:36:36] Trustee Luckham: trespass if you end up on somebody's property for which you're not invited or

[4:36:40] Trustee Luckham: have legal access I don't think we

[4:36:44] Voice 11: need to replicate this in our violence so

[4:36:50] Trustee Bernardo: all right so what do we do about this i don't i'm not quite sure where we are on this particular

[4:36:56] Trustee Bernardo: guideline about whether or not we delete this provision or not can

[4:36:59] Trustee Stamford: you just tell me which

[4:37:00] Trustee Stamford: provision it is again like what's the number we're

[4:37:02] Trustee Bernardo: at uh 0.3 b on page 53 of the agenda package

[4:37:10] Trustee Bernardo: can

[4:37:11] Voice 11: we just delete it well that's what it is that's

[4:37:17] Trustee Bernardo: what i'm proposing to do because we've

[4:37:18] Trustee Bernardo: We've got it covered with dogs.

[4:37:20] Trustee Luckham: I'm sorry, what are you on B on point?

[4:37:24] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I don't.

[4:37:25] Trustee Luckham: B or point four B?

[4:37:28] Trustee Luckham: Point three B.

[4:37:31] Trustee Luckham: I'm ahead of the plot here.

[4:37:33] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, it should be demonstrated

[4:37:35] Trustee Stamford: locating development entirely outside

[4:37:37] Trustee Stamford: of the development perimeter.

[4:37:39] Trustee Stamford: It's being considered and a description

[4:37:41] Trustee Stamford: of why that is not being proposed should be provided.

[4:37:44] Trustee Stamford: No, no, no.

[4:37:46] Voice 11: Guidelines, yeah.

[4:37:49] Voice 11: So I'm lost.

[4:37:50] Voice 11: I don't know why that applies.

[4:37:53] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, I'm lost too,

[4:37:54] Trustee Bernardo: because I didn't understand the language you're just reading.

[4:37:57] Trustee Bernardo: I'm looking at the red line version,

[4:38:01] Trustee Bernardo: the section that relates to 9.3.3 B.

[4:38:10] Voice 11: Yes, and you've deleted it.

[4:38:12] Voice 11: I have deleted it.

[4:38:13] Voice 11: I think it's...

[4:38:20] Voice 11: staff um uh yeah i don't have yeah okay

[4:38:24] Trustee Luckham: i don't see how that applies but

[4:38:25] Trustee Stamford: okay yeah it already

[4:38:27] Trustee Luckham: exists in other regulation so can we just

[4:38:31] Trustee Luckham: can we move on then oh

[4:38:32] Trustee Stamford: i see it was oh i see i get it now

[4:38:35] Trustee Stamford: there was another b and then there's a b above it okay that's what the problem is okay so then

[4:38:42] Trustee Luckham: b would be deleted in its entirety right the two

[4:38:46] Trustee Luckham: b's okay

[4:38:46] Trustee Luckham: okay

[4:38:48] Voice 11: all

[4:38:48] Trustee Luckham: right so then then we end up getting on to new construction are we okay with the rest of

[4:38:55] Trustee Luckham: this i

[4:38:56] Trustee Bernardo: am and i'm okay with c um

[4:39:00] Trustee Stamford: i don't i'm not okay uh d it's more the rationale i i don't

[4:39:07] Trustee Stamford: necessarily agree with but um if the protections are there that's all i care about okay i you know

[4:39:14] Trustee Stamford: I don't necessarily agree that we know that that building is not causing erosion, but, you know, I think it's more, again, it's grammatical and interpretation.

[4:39:26] Voice 11: So that's D, E, F, G.

[4:39:32] Trustee Bernardo: So is Trustee Sanford saying that she's fine with that?

[4:39:35] Trustee Bernardo: Yes.

[4:39:36] Trustee Bernardo: Or put it this way, doesn't, grudgingly doesn't object?

[4:39:40] Trustee Stamford: Grudgingly doesn't object is a really good.

[4:39:42] Trustee Bernardo: All right.

[4:39:44] Trustee Bernardo: All right.

[4:39:45] Trustee Bernardo: Right, and I'm fine with all the rest of it up to aye.

[4:39:53] Voice 11: And any comments from anybody else?

[4:39:59] Voice 11: So we can go to page 54, is that what you're asking?

[4:40:05] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, and of course, I'm going on again

[4:40:08] Trustee Bernardo: about why it's important to keep talking

[4:40:11] Trustee Bernardo: about that these are in fact guidelines.

[4:40:14] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, well,

[4:40:15] Trustee Luckham: no, that's important.

[4:40:16] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, I understand.

[4:40:17] Trustee Bernardo: So anyhow, moving on, the deletion of A proposed

[4:40:22] Trustee Bernardo: proposed by staff I'm fine with that um what I'm doing here uh with the new number A is uh

[4:40:36] Voice 11: uh my quibble here is um the

[4:40:43] Trustee Bernardo: language as proposed by staff creates a performance standard

[4:40:47] Trustee Bernardo: that says the docks and floats ramps

[4:40:51] Voice 11: would be cited and uh to prevent basically uh

[4:41:02] Trustee Bernardo: ecosystems being upset i'm saying no hang on you can't predict the future what you need is a

[4:41:08] Trustee Bernardo: qualified you know you you know you follow environmental assessment by the qualified

[4:41:12] Trustee Bernardo: professional but the citing has to be designed to avoid interference but you know you can build

[4:41:19] Trustee Bernardo: something and then eelgrass beds and things could start growing around it and you know it could be

[4:41:26] Trustee Bernardo: interpreted as having prevented it and not meeting performance standard. I'm not being

[4:41:33] Trustee Bernardo: very clear here but I would prefer this language. I

[4:41:36] Trustee Luckham: get it it says it in the language and I don't

[4:41:38] Trustee Luckham: see an issue with that it's reasonable clarity. All right and then B. Stanford just want to make

[4:41:45] Trustee Luckham: sure you're in the same yeah

[4:41:47] Trustee Stamford: i kind of get it yeah then

[4:41:49] Trustee Bernardo: uh b here we go docs should be designed to

[4:41:52] Trustee Bernardo: avoid interfering public movement along the foreshore yeah

[4:41:55] Voice 3: okay

[4:41:56] Trustee Bernardo: and we could have parallel

[4:41:58] Trustee Bernardo: language that deals with shoreline protection measures and that would address the points that

[4:42:02] Trustee Bernardo: the planner mccarter brought up before um

[4:42:06] Voice 11: c

[4:42:08] Trustee Bernardo: it's just quibbling with the language i'm fine with

[4:42:11] Trustee Bernardo: the deletion of e again uh yeah is fine e i

[4:42:21] Planner McCargar: can just interject i'm not um just sometimes when

[4:42:24] Planner McCargar: you say quibbling with the language it does change the intent quite significantly when you say when

[4:42:30] Planner McCargar: you move the language from must to should yes that's not just a minor amendment in in my mind

[4:42:37] Planner McCargar: but i just wanted to bring that attention where i feel like it's been done a couple of times

[4:42:42] Voice 10: that's that's a fair point um

[4:42:44] Trustee Bernardo: and i tried to address that point at the outset when we started

[4:42:47] Trustee Bernardo: talking about the guidelines that um if we want to have things that are prescript prescript

[4:42:55] Trustee Bernardo: prescriptive they really ought to be regulations because then that's not a guideline that's an

[4:42:59] Trustee Bernardo: order that's a directive so but if we're actually talking about guidelines we need to use language

[4:43:07] Trustee Bernardo: that actually gives staff the flexibility

[4:43:13] Trustee Bernardo: to exercise some judgment in that specific area.

[4:43:16] Trustee Bernardo: That's the point of it.

[4:43:18] Trustee Bernardo: If we wanna create rules,

[4:43:19] Trustee Bernardo: we should be clear about the fact that we're creating rules,

[4:43:21] Trustee Bernardo: but if we're gonna call them guidelines

[4:43:22] Trustee Bernardo: and they are guidelines,

[4:43:23] Trustee Bernardo: and that's the intent behind them,

[4:43:24] Trustee Bernardo: then they ought to be phrased as guidelines.

[4:43:26] Trustee Bernardo: Your point's quite right.

[4:43:28] Trustee Bernardo: It is a material change of meaning.

[4:43:29] Trustee Bernardo: It's changing the meaning from being imperative

[4:43:34] Trustee Bernardo: to being prescriptive suggestive, but not a command.

[4:43:41] Trustee Luckham: yeah and you know these are guidelines for a development permit which the ultimately the

[4:43:46] Trustee Luckham: ltc determines whether or not it wants to uh issue it or not and so should it

[4:43:51] Trustee Luckham: it works just as well from us as me if it was a policy um i think that's where should and must

[4:43:59] Trustee Luckham: and shall might come into play much but i respect that uh the comment and that the drawing our

[4:44:07] Trustee Luckham: attention to the distinction there but let's continue can i also

[4:44:13] Trustee Stamford: jump in there's another

[4:44:14] Trustee Stamford: a lot of these particular guidelines are coming from the um the doc uh best practices um documents

[4:44:25] Trustee Stamford: and um i i don't want to quibble with those too much because those have been recommended to us by

[4:44:32] Trustee Stamford: the Squamish Nation. They are imposed in the Sechelt Nation. So that's another reason for

[4:44:42] Trustee Stamford: sort of watching the language on this. And as

[4:44:47] Planner McCargar: just a reminder, with the consultation we did

[4:44:50] Planner McCargar: with Squamish Nation around these bylaws, some of their recommendations were for stronger language,

[4:44:56] Planner McCargar: and some of these were changed to be a little bit stronger at their recommendation.

[4:45:03] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, but that's fine. That was at the second reading stage. Some of these changes, frankly,

[4:45:12] Trustee Bernardo: came up after I provoked staff by sending a whole bunch of suggestions. Staff started

[4:45:19] Trustee Bernardo: sharpening its pencil and started going through it and doing its own changes. So I don't think

[4:45:23] Trustee Bernardo: Squamish Nation has seen these particular changes yet. I expect they will probably get

[4:45:28] Trustee Bernardo: a chance to get another look at it but um because we are headed towards another second reading

[4:45:35] Trustee Bernardo: situation um it wasn't my intention really to change the direction of these guidelines

[4:45:43] Trustee Bernardo: it's to make clear that they are guidelines and to make them more intelligible uh you know on the

[4:45:51] Trustee Bernardo: staff for example i mean staff's doing the same thing in item d i mean it's just kind of like

[4:45:56] Trustee Bernardo: it just makes more sense when you read it that way it's just clearer

[4:46:00] Trustee Bernardo: that if you go to e that's that's the point there is to just simply make it the language clearer

[4:46:07] Trustee Bernardo: um and then if you go to f um the change it would it would change the intended meaning of the

[4:46:16] Trustee Bernardo: guideline uh the original wording of of the bylaw that passed second reading i mean it wasn't great

[4:46:24] Trustee Bernardo: but it wasn't the intention it wasn't to force the use of not biodegradable materials in the

[4:46:28] Trustee Bernardo: construction of docks that is impossible it's useless if it's biodegradable you docks will be

[4:46:36] Trustee Bernardo: made out of things like metal and pressure treated wood right

[4:46:41] Trustee Stamford: okay but are we ready to talk about f

[4:46:43] Trustee Stamford: because i got a lot to say about that well

[4:46:45] Trustee Bernardo: uh if i can just finish my little rant here for a minute

[4:46:48] Trustee Bernardo: it's like uh i'm trying with f i'm trying to make it clear that the point here is we don't want to

[4:46:54] Trustee Bernardo: degrade the water quality nope so let's just say that so anyhow over to you thank you so we're

[4:47:02] Voice 11: ready to talk about f now yep

[4:47:04] Trustee Bernardo: just to be clear are we okay with everything up to f up to this

[4:47:08] Trustee Bernardo: point then yeah okay thank you

[4:47:12] Trustee Stamford: um yeah i i'm reading the guidelines i'm reading about docs

[4:47:19] Trustee Stamford: I'm the standards are no styrofoam and that I don't necessarily agree that the whole point

[4:47:26] Trustee Stamford: is not to degrade water quality it's the ecosystem as a whole and and that it is okay to make

[4:47:36] Trustee Stamford: docks and floats out of things that may not last as long but when they do break up which they will

[4:47:44] Trustee Stamford: no matter what they're made of that that doesn't end up endlessly um running around the the

[4:47:51] Trustee Stamford: ecosystem causing so

[4:47:53] Trustee Stamford: when we talk about encapsulated um styrofoam from for instance

[4:47:59] Trustee Stamford: there is a fish farm lying up in in a bay just above where i live with encapsulated styrofoam

[4:48:08] Trustee Stamford: that got punctured. And that styrofoam is everywhere. And that is from the latest and

[4:48:16] Trustee Stamford: greatest encapsulated. We've got concrete encapsulated styrofoam. We've got all sorts of

[4:48:23] Trustee Stamford: encapsulated styrofoam that is no longer doing what it's supposed to do. And, you know, I really

[4:48:30] Trustee Stamford: want to push hard on using materials that we assume are going to get destroyed at one point

[4:48:37] Trustee Stamford: or the other and what happens to it after it's finished its life because it ends up in the

[4:48:42] Trustee Stamford: ecosystem um again these are more principled things i don't have the wording but um i you

[4:48:51] Trustee Stamford: know i don't think degrade water quality is a strong enough wording um well if

[4:48:56] Trustee Bernardo: i can explain

[4:48:57] Trustee Bernardo: uh i have to say i find this a little frustrating i'm working with the language i found yeah i

[4:49:03] Trustee Bernardo: I didn't invent this.

[4:49:04] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, with all respect, Hussie Sanford, you did.

[4:49:09] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, last term.

[4:49:10] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, this is what the LTC approved and that a year ago staff was telling me was ready to go to public hearing.

[4:49:19] Trustee Bernardo: And now you're getting a lot more specific,

[4:49:22] Voice 11: which

[4:49:23] Trustee Bernardo: I suppose I'm not in a position to gripe about it because that's what I've been doing for the better part of a year, but saying these aren't specific enough.

[4:49:29] Trustee Bernardo: Now I'm having to live with that, I guess.

[4:49:31] Trustee Bernardo: us, but I just want to be clear. My mind is open to sort of changing the language here

[4:49:36] Trustee Bernardo: to make it more effective, but let's be clear. We're dealing with stuff that the LTC and the

[4:49:43] Trustee Bernardo: staff had previously thought was fine, and this is now being changed. Yeah, and

[4:49:48] Trustee Stamford: I understand that,

[4:49:49] Trustee Stamford: and it's recognizing, as we go through with a fine-tooth comb, the implications of it.

[4:49:57] Trustee Stamford: right

[4:49:57] Trustee Bernardo: and and i would hope that in the future when we do bylaws um we do the fine-tooth comb

[4:50:07] Trustee Bernardo: business at the start so anyhow it's anyhow please carry on trustee stanford i'm sorry

[4:50:11] Trustee Bernardo: well

[4:50:11] Trustee Stamford: uh all i'm trying to figure out is is wording that that makes it clear i'm not sure

[4:50:18] Trustee Stamford: we're in a position to completely um uh ban um encapsulated styrofoam there may be places it can

[4:50:28] Trustee Stamford: go but i'm looking when i looked at this i i want to make some changes in this area and and make it

[4:50:37] Trustee Stamford: tighter that we need to use the most environmentally appropriate um you know products

[4:50:48] Trustee Stamford: on docks and floats in this area um so that's all i can really say at this point but i'm not

[4:50:56] Trustee Stamford: willing to let it go um

[4:50:59] Trustee Bernardo: okay well i you know we are we do have limited time yeah i'm going to

[4:51:05] Trustee Bernardo: i'm going to suggest that like the construction exemption that i think is important and

[4:51:12] Trustee Bernardo: it's somewhat controversial we must reserve this one as well point three f yeah what you're

[4:51:19] Trustee Bernardo: basically saying is it needs a rewrite uh to address your concerns uh i'm

[4:51:24] Trustee Bernardo: going to suggest

[4:51:24] Trustee Bernardo: that offline you and i talk about what would work and see if we can come up with something

[4:51:30] Trustee Bernardo: and then this

[4:51:31] Voice 11: one's tighter um

[4:51:33] Trustee Bernardo: i understand yeah i i don't object to the principle of it it's just

[4:51:37] Trustee Bernardo: that you know we're limited time so would that be okay uh chair if we just park this one and move

[4:51:42] Trustee Bernardo: on all right um let's see right we deleted g because it's actually already in the rig

[4:51:54] Trustee Bernardo: Stroll and

[4:51:55] Voice 11: modifications, let's see.

[4:52:02] Voice 11: Yeah,

[4:52:02] Trustee Bernardo: the way it was originally written is just weird

[4:52:05] Trustee Bernardo: because it would talk about for the sole purpose

[4:52:10] Trustee Bernardo: of reducing the setbacks.

[4:52:12] Trustee Bernardo: Well, no, it can't reduce the setback is what it is.

[4:52:14] Trustee Bernardo: That's what the law is.

[4:52:16] Trustee Bernardo: I think what it means is changing the measurement

[4:52:19] Trustee Bernardo: of the setbacks.

[4:52:19] Trustee Bernardo: So that's why that changes there.

[4:52:23] Trustee Bernardo: Unless you hear any objections with that language,

[4:52:26] Trustee Bernardo: just move on.

[4:52:28] Trustee Bernardo: Stats changes at C are fine. Onwards.

[4:52:34] Voice 11: I don't know if other trustees have anything to say about that.

[4:52:41] Voice 11: I can't see anything right now.

[4:52:43] Trustee Bernardo: Okay. At D, I'm just changing shall with should for the same tiresome reason I repeated a million times before.

[4:52:51] Trustee Bernardo: Again,

[4:52:55] Voice 11: item Roman letter 2, that's, you know, I'm using rely on instead of the directive use.

[4:53:10] Voice 11: Let's see.

[4:53:15] Voice 11: And all the rest of it, I guess my only

[4:53:20] Trustee Bernardo: issue or the point I'm bringing up is staff didn't like the original language of bylaw 144 at F2

[4:53:30] Trustee Bernardo: where it says as it now says says when feasible staff doesn't like that well i do want to put

[4:53:37] Trustee Bernardo: i put the wording back in uh because um we need some flexibility here i mean just having an iron

[4:53:47] Trustee Bernardo: flat rule that the replacement structure uh uh must mitigate the loss of include half debt

[4:53:56] Trustee Bernardo: restoration measures under all circumstances it may not always be possible when feasible gives

[4:54:01] Trustee Bernardo: gives staff and the LTC the discretion

[4:54:05] Trustee Bernardo: when they're looking at an application

[4:54:07] Trustee Bernardo: for shoreline protection.

[4:54:10] Trustee Bernardo: Texas has some judgment in that area.

[4:54:13] Trustee Bernardo: That's all it does.

[4:54:14] Trustee Bernardo: So again, it's the same point.

[4:54:17] Trustee Bernardo: Let's not do mandatory things in guidelines.

[4:54:21] Trustee Bernardo: Any comments from Trustee Stamford on that front?

[4:54:24] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, well, I think we're putting in other shoulds

[4:54:32] Trustee Stamford: and things like that.

[4:54:33] Trustee Stamford: I'm not sure how when feasible makes any difference because if it can't be

[4:54:37] Trustee Stamford: done, it can't be done.

[4:54:39] Trustee Stamford: But to make it more definitive that you will try your darndest.

[4:54:47] Trustee Stamford: I'm not sure when feasible adds that just that softens the whole language.

[4:54:52] Voice 12: Well, it's the language you agreed to at the beginning.

[4:54:55] Trustee Stamford: Yeah. No, I'm again,

[4:54:57] Trustee Stamford: I'm trying to come to this with a different lens with the opportunity.

[4:55:03] Trustee Stamford: we have here um

[4:55:05] Trustee Bernardo: good as you should um i just want to be annoying about it

[4:55:10] Trustee Stamford: i'm not i'm again

[4:55:12] Trustee Stamford: it's guidelines i'm not as specific about it but

[4:55:15] Voice 12: can you live with it as it is i

[4:55:18] Trustee Stamford: can live with it

[4:55:18] Trustee Stamford: i i'm looking at this water quality um uh degrading of water quality that's that's a weird

[4:55:28] Trustee Stamford: wording but again i'm going to work on that that's a g it it's a bit vague

[4:55:34] Voice 11: uh okay yeah um

[4:55:41] Voice 11: as we move on um right at g yeah that's

[4:55:48] Voice 12: just to make it clear but it has the same it carries it

[4:55:52] Voice 12: does there are in this whole set of guidelines there is a whole bunch of degraded water quality

[4:55:57] Voice 12: stuff. That's

[4:55:57] Trustee Bernardo: the original concept. I think what I'm guessing here, I think when it was

[4:56:03] Trustee Bernardo: originally drafted, I think the idea of degrade water quality was meant to encompass ecological

[4:56:08] Trustee Bernardo: damage, which is that's how you end up with ecological damage in the marine environment

[4:56:13] Trustee Bernardo: because you've messed up the water. So I think that's the theory behind that. But

[4:56:16] Voice 12: whatever

[4:56:17] Voice 12: changes that you end up thinking

[4:56:19] Trustee Bernardo: are better in one area, we're talking about water quality.

[4:56:24] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, well, if the language works there,

[4:56:26] Trustee Bernardo: we can probably just put it everywhere else

[4:56:29] Trustee Bernardo: if it does the job.

[4:56:30] Trustee Bernardo: But for now, I suppose what I'm hearing is

[4:56:34] Trustee Bernardo: we could just leave G as it is.

[4:56:40] Voice 11: So I'm looking at K.

[4:56:42] Voice 11: Okay.

[4:56:44] Voice 11: Can we even...

[4:56:45] Voice 11: Yeah.

[4:56:50] Voice 11: Yes?

[4:56:51] Voice 14: Submission fees?

[4:56:53] Voice 11: Can we wait?

[4:56:56] Voice 11: I'm not sure if we can do that.

[4:56:58] Voice 11: Based on that particular...

[4:57:02] Trustee Bernardo: perhaps the planner macarthur's could macarthur sorry uh could weigh in on this uh i mean it's

[4:57:09] Trustee Bernardo: pretty straightforward what i'm trying to do here i'm trying to encourage people as much as possible

[4:57:12] Trustee Bernardo: to go in that direction but um is it feasible to do this uh with this guideline i

[4:57:19] Planner McCargar: would need to

[4:57:20] Planner McCargar: look into it more i don't believe that a guideline can can waive fees i think that would have to go

[4:57:25] Planner McCargar: into the fees bylaw that's what i

[4:57:27] Planner McCargar: yeah i'd have to look into it more but my my hunch is that no

[4:57:31] Planner McCargar: Even

[4:57:31] Trustee Luckham: in the fees bylaw, when we had those discussions about incentives, there was certainly a desire to do that incentivization process, but it does not exist within the legislation is essentially what we're told.

[4:57:46] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, we battled back and forth on that for a long time, didn't we?

[4:57:51] Trustee Luckham: We've had that conversation in fees bylaw, yeah.

[4:57:54] Trustee Luckham: Yes.

[4:57:54] Trustee Bernardo: So at the risk of being overly cute, am I to take from that that my suggested

[4:58:00] Trustee Bernardo: point here is not feasible? Yes.

[4:58:03] Trustee Bernardo: All right, take it out then.

[4:58:05] Voice 11: Yep. So not

[4:58:08] Voice 11: to say that we shouldn't

[4:58:09] Trustee Luckham: be looking for these opportunities, but it doesn't

[4:58:11] Trustee Bernardo: exist right now, for sure. So we will delete

[4:58:14] Trustee Bernardo: 0.5k. Yep. Okay. Yep. Now we get into guidelines for vegetation management restoration and I have

[4:58:25] Trustee Bernardo: a little trouble with this stuff because there's a whole reference of security deposits all this

[4:58:30] Trustee Bernardo: kind of stuff a lot of there's stuff in there that's more draconian and it's new

[4:58:35] Trustee Bernardo: and um reading over these guidelines i i can't wait the impression that this whole stuff was

[4:58:40] Trustee Bernardo: i mean it's absurd to ask people to think about security deposits when we're talking about just a

[4:58:46] Trustee Bernardo: an individual lot it seems to me that those concepts made more sense with respect to major

[4:58:51] Trustee Bernardo: major developments like subdivisions and before we get into 0.6 I think it's useful to observe

[4:58:59] Trustee Bernardo: that the very last bit of the bylaw guidelines for subdivision subdivision sorry staff proposes

[4:59:06] Trustee Bernardo: to completely delete that um presumably because guidelines for subdivision really aren't that

[4:59:15] Trustee Bernardo: relevant here like that's not the purpose of there aren't going to be subdivisions in DP 3. uh and

[4:59:23] Trustee Bernardo: that makes me wonder as i make make i mentioned in the comment here um

[4:59:31] Trustee Bernardo: that one of the comments that um all the paragraphs have to see in this last section

[4:59:39] Trustee Bernardo: of vegetation management 0.6 i'm not sure it's particularly those provisions are particularly

[4:59:46] Trustee Bernardo: relevant as guidelines uh for dp3 i'm not sure about that and i actually would like to hear from

[4:59:54] Trustee Bernardo: the planner about that and

[4:59:56] Trustee Stamford: and i have something to say about it too but yeah go ahead

[5:00:01] Voice 11: So, I'll just

[5:00:08] Trustee Bernardo: put my various objections here and then just hand it over to the planner

[5:00:11] Trustee Bernardo: McCarver to comment, which is, I'm not a fan of the idea of leaving it to staff discretion

[5:00:18] Trustee Bernardo: to impose security deposits in a discussion of a development permit application.

[5:00:27] Trustee Luckham: I think that is a decision.

[5:00:28] Trustee Luckham: Typically, that is a decision of an LTC.

[5:00:30] Trustee Luckham: Is it not, planner McCarver, to apply a security?

[5:00:35] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, it

[5:00:36] Planner McCargar: was included as guideline. Originally, it was guideline C, I believe. The local trust committee may require provision of a security to be used to fulfill the replanting. And then it was just, I believe, kind of reworded.

[5:00:52] Trustee Luckham: yeah but the intent i think it should be the local trust committee to decide this

[5:00:56] Trustee Luckham: we have used them and they are a useful tool because believe it or not even in small sub

[5:01:02] Trustee Luckham: small lots in let's say magic lake um people don't do the work that they're supposed to do

[5:01:09] Trustee Stamford: it's sort of what i was going to say i mean we got them for dpa3

[5:01:13] Trustee Stamford: uh um for gambier and it you can put some fairly specific requirements in around the rar

[5:01:21] Trustee Stamford: um and it seems kind of odd but it actually gives people an idea of what what they have to do

[5:01:29] Trustee Stamford: because right now most of the responses to rar is they're clearing first asking later

[5:01:36] Trustee Stamford: and this puts the onus back on the the person that's clearing the land to ensure that things

[5:01:44] Trustee Stamford: are put back in a reasonable manner um so we're using them now for gambier uh

[5:01:52] Trustee Bernardo: can you clarify

[5:01:53] Trustee Bernardo: what rar means i don't i'm not familiar riparian

[5:01:56] Trustee Stamford: area regular

[5:01:57] Trustee Stamford: regular area

[5:01:58] Trustee Stamford: protection regulation so it's in there and um they actually sat down and talked

[5:02:07] Trustee Stamford: to somebody and said that you you agreed that you were going to put these ferns back here in this

[5:02:14] Trustee Stamford: spot here and and it actually made it easier for them because they knew what they had to do

[5:02:22] Trustee Bernardo: well my one of my problems with sea as currently or as staff proposes is you know it talks about

[5:02:30] Trustee Bernardo: in areas previously cleared of native vegetation well if it's cleared in of native vegetation

[5:02:36] Trustee Bernardo: in connection with the development replanting requirements and making those requirements

[5:02:42] Trustee Bernardo: that makes sense to me and to restore the natural environment or to control erosion

[5:02:48] Trustee Bernardo: and basically by mitigating or addressing changes that have happened as a result of development

[5:02:55] Trustee Bernardo: that's all fine uh i just want to be careful that the language doesn't create

[5:03:00] Trustee Bernardo: some kind of implication that remediation of land that has long been cleared somehow becomes

[5:03:07] Trustee Bernardo: a requirement because this bylaw has actually never been about remediation it's about protection

[5:03:12] Trustee Bernardo: going forward not about rebuilding and forcing people to sort of undertake programs of remediation

[5:03:19] Trustee Bernardo: on their properties the

[5:03:21] Trustee Luckham: remediation is associated with the development permit which is associated

[5:03:24] Trustee Luckham: with the work that they're asking to undertake that's what that's what it's about well okay that

[5:03:30] Trustee Bernardo: and that's what i've done worked with the language to make clear that it's it's it's about addressing

[5:03:35] Trustee Bernardo: uh remit it's about remediating um changes to the land that have occurred as a result of the

[5:03:42] Trustee Bernardo: development not something else yes

[5:03:45] Voice 11: absolutely and uh yeah the this uh i i guess it makes sense to

[5:03:59] Voice 11: to um to make clear that a security deposit well i don't know

[5:04:07] Voice 12: um isn't it sufficient to simply make

[5:04:10] Voice 12: the requirement you know like if you if you if you

[5:04:13] Trustee Bernardo: create the like this guideline as as i've

[5:04:16] Trustee Bernardo: written it creates a requirement like it leaves it open uh that to impose on the applicant a

[5:04:25] Trustee Bernardo: requirement to do replanting why do we need a security deposit don't they do it yeah but i mean

[5:04:34] Voice 12: and

[5:04:35] Voice 14: this is the

[5:04:36] Voice 12: guy then then but why here and not everywhere else it's like it's like

[5:04:41] Voice 12: i'm sorry but it's it there's a kind of authoritarian thing here which is um

[5:04:47] Voice 11: We don't trust you.

[5:04:49] Voice 11: That's right.

[5:04:54] Voice 11: So the way...

[5:04:56] Voice 11: I think if I can just...

[5:04:57] Voice 11: There's a provision

[5:04:57] Trustee Bernardo: later on that basically states

[5:04:59] Trustee Bernardo: that it's going to be required 100% of the time.

[5:05:04] Trustee Bernardo: That's, I'm sorry, it's kind of nuts.

[5:05:06] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, and I don't know where that comes from.

[5:05:09] Trustee Bernardo: So can we have some flexibility here with respect to about...

[5:05:17] Trustee Bernardo: I'd like to see some discretion applied

[5:05:19] Trustee Bernardo: when a security deposit is required.

[5:05:22] Trustee Bernardo: The way

[5:05:24] Trustee Luckham: that it's practiced in the Allen's Trust is there is discretion, and I think that that was captured earlier, if not now still, that it's at the discretion of the LTC and how much.

[5:05:35] Trustee Luckham: Like, I've been involved in decisions where there's been a recommendation that a security deposit be $1,500, and the trust committee has taken into account the circumstances of the individual and said, no, let's just make it $500.

[5:05:47] Trustee Luckham: And that happens. It does.

[5:05:48] Trustee Luckham: Well,

[5:05:50] Voice 12: okay. I suppose we could reintroduce where I see there where I've deleted and

[5:06:00] Trustee Bernardo: a security deposit.

[5:06:02] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, we can put that back, you know, so that it says, okay, if the development results in this, you know, changes that need mitigating, replanting requirements and a security deposit for natural plant or controlled fish may be required.

[5:06:20] Trustee Bernardo: And then that leaves it to the LTC to decide, right?

[5:06:24] Trustee Bernardo: So would that address the issue, just restore and a security deposit?

[5:06:29] Trustee Stamford: Yeah.

[5:06:30] Trustee Bernardo: Does

[5:06:31] Trustee Stamford: that cover what

[5:06:31] Voice 11: Final McCargo was going to say?

[5:06:35] Voice 11: Yeah, I think that's fine.

[5:06:40] Voice 11: Yeah.

[5:06:42] Voice 11: All right.

[5:06:47] Voice 11: At D, this is,

[5:06:51] Trustee Bernardo: frankly, I don't know why it's even there,

[5:06:53] Trustee Bernardo: but I struggled with that because what I'm proposing,

[5:06:57] Trustee Bernardo: actually kind of violates my own rule that this guideline should be guidelines and not prescriptive

[5:07:03] Trustee Bernardo: but i lost all patience i'll be honest when i saw this because i just do not understand

[5:07:08] Trustee Bernardo: why we would ever leave open the possibility of requiring a property owner to plant on bedrock

[5:07:15] Trustee Bernardo: bedrock that's natively bare like what are we doing i mean what's that all

[5:07:20] Voice 11: about i mean do we

[5:07:22] Voice 11: even need this this d and that gets into everything else that follows it just seems to be

[5:07:43] Trustee Bernardo: from d onwards it all seems to be uh things that be more relevant when you have a subdivision

[5:07:49] Trustee Bernardo: when you've got a big project and you want to keep an eye on it so that it you know uh but on

[5:07:55] Trustee Bernardo: an individual like property with one dwelling i don't know it just seems seems like overkill to

[5:08:02] Trustee Bernardo: me to be this prescriptive we

[5:08:04] Planner McCargar: do see this a lot and you know with a qualified environmental

[5:08:08] Planner McCargar: professional they'll submit a report that would go along with the dp and it will often have a

[5:08:15] Planner McCargar: replanting plan that's going to happen after the fact they're the you know the island trust will

[5:08:22] Planner McCargar: do monitoring to make sure that that this and sometimes they even need to submit a completion

[5:08:26] Planner McCargar: report. And this happens on individual properties. It's quite common.

[5:08:32] Trustee Stamford: And just to add to that,

[5:08:34] Trustee Stamford: if I think about potential for DL 696, where I can see once the subdivision is in place,

[5:08:43] Trustee Stamford: that there are going to be a significant number of individual property owners that individually

[5:08:49] Trustee Stamford: are one thing. But if you look at the activity all together, there is going to be quite an impact.

[5:08:55] Trustee Stamford: and having this option to be able to see this on a specific level understanding that there could be

[5:09:02] Trustee Stamford: 10 coming up along that same foreshore okay

[5:09:07] Trustee Bernardo: you

[5:09:07] Trustee Stamford: know that has a bigger impact well

[5:09:10] Trustee Bernardo: i don't you

[5:09:10] Trustee Bernardo: know this isn't this you know i've got a hill to die on but this isn't it um so um this is a

[5:09:18] Trustee Bernardo: guideline in your own language what about this uh i mean do we really need this guideline with

[5:09:24] Trustee Bernardo: with respect to areas of undisturbed bedrock?

[5:09:26] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, it seems nonsensical to me.

[5:09:32] Trustee Luckham: I'm not a professional, I don't know.

[5:09:34] Trustee Luckham: Cause it's also, it also says sparsely vegetated.

[5:09:37] Trustee Luckham: So let's keep that in mind,

[5:09:38] Trustee Luckham: sparsely vegetated versus bedrock.

[5:09:41] Trustee Luckham: Certainly bedrock seems peculiar to me, but.

[5:09:47] Trustee Bernardo: If it read areas or if it read sparsely vegetated areas

[5:09:53] Trustee Bernardo: parsley vegetated areas may not

[5:09:55] Voice 11: require planting that would make sense to me but in order to move

[5:10:03] Voice 11: on i'd be happy to change that and

[5:10:06] Trustee Luckham: i really want to you know i asked you if we'd be done in an hour

[5:10:09] Trustee Luckham: it's coming up

[5:10:10] Voice 11: we're almost there we're almost there yeah and this is a

[5:10:18] Trustee Bernardo: guideline what does

[5:10:19] Trustee Bernardo: trustee sanford have to say about it good

[5:10:21] Trustee Stamford: i i didn't understand the rock reference so i'm happy

[5:10:25] Trustee Stamford: to let that one go but other than that i don't have any more comments okay

[5:10:30] Trustee Bernardo: sparsely vegetated

[5:10:31] Voice 11: if

[5:10:32] Trustee Bernardo: it's acceptable i would like to just get rid of the reference understood bedrock altogether

[5:10:38] Trustee Bernardo: and simply have that section read sparsely vegetated areas may

[5:10:44] Voice 11: not uh require uh

[5:10:49] Voice 11: i think we just agree may

[5:10:52] Trustee Bernardo: not require replanting and that's a guideline and i'm just looking at

[5:10:59] Trustee Bernardo: down so I keep track of it okay let's move on yeah I don't know why part of this is grammar but

[5:11:08] Trustee Bernardo: I don't understand why the deletion of a non-native species you know it's kind of ironic

[5:11:16] Trustee Bernardo: given the discussion we had at the beginning of this thing why the non-native species business

[5:11:22] Trustee Bernardo: was deleted and that's why I put it back it seemed sensible to me that the use of suitably

[5:11:28] Trustee Bernardo: adapted non-invasive non-native vegetation may

[5:11:31] Voice 11: be permitted when you know yeah i mean it has to be

[5:11:40] Trustee Stamford: suitable right i keep thinking of um the thormon bees where they in order to protect their um

[5:11:45] Trustee Stamford: their erosion issues which are huge on the the far side of thormon bee um they've just pounded

[5:11:52] Trustee Stamford: a whole bunch of broom and that you know um which is a one of the biggest fire hazards we have so

[5:11:59] Trustee Stamford: So, but in context, if there's specifics, like, you know, I keep thinking of sequoias are coming in.

[5:12:13] Trustee Stamford: They're not native, but they might be

[5:12:15] Voice 11: in 20 years.

[5:12:21] Voice 11: Okay.

[5:12:29] Voice 11: So how do we want to deal with this?

[5:12:31] Voice 11: I mean,

[5:12:31] Trustee Bernardo: we want to have the possibility of non-native species when it's useful.

[5:12:38] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, it would work just as well, in my mind, if it just said vegetation species used in replanting should be suitable for the soil, light, and groundwater conditions of the site native to the area and be selected for erosion control and or fish wellhead.

[5:12:54] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I don't know.

[5:12:57] Trustee Bernardo: No, I'm sorry to be struggling here, but I worry that by just doing the sweeping, it

[5:13:07] Trustee Bernardo: must be native to the area, we're hamstringing what might

[5:13:13] Voice 11: be a right solution.

[5:13:17] Voice 11: I mean, the

[5:13:21] Trustee Bernardo: original intent, although I didn't like the language, the original intent of

[5:13:24] Trustee Bernardo: saying, look, we prefer native species, but if you have to, you know, suitable non-native

[5:13:28] Trustee Bernardo: will work and the language i put in actually has got a mistake should actually say the use of

[5:13:34] Trustee Bernardo: suitably adapted non-invasive non-native vegetation may be permitted in a replanting program when

[5:13:39] Trustee Bernardo: conditions render the use of native species materially less suitable yeah

[5:13:44] Trustee Stamford: so

[5:13:45] Trustee Bernardo: uh how about

[5:13:47] Trustee Bernardo: i correct my mistake would that work if at e we just deliver delete the word non

[5:13:52] Trustee Bernardo: on on the second to last sentence and just kept it a native

[5:13:57] Voice 11: yeah

[5:13:59] Trustee Bernardo: so when conditions render the

[5:14:01] Trustee Bernardo: use of native species less material uh materially less suitable sorry no

[5:14:07] Voice 11: broom but yeah but that is

[5:14:10] Voice 11: like they

[5:14:12] Trustee Bernardo: have to be suitable yeah

[5:14:14] Voice 11: right now i'm getting

[5:14:15] Trustee Bernardo: punchy uh we all are but we're almost

[5:14:18] Trustee Bernardo: there so bear with me so at 6e we will delete the

[5:14:24] Voice 11: word non before native species that was under

[5:14:36] Voice 11: work matter that would be at point 6e okay I'll look down to the last item yes the roof staff

[5:15:02] Trustee Bernardo: was contemplating that we put in a requirement that where where security deposit is taken the

[5:15:07] Trustee Bernardo: the amount of security shall be 100% of the cost estimate provided.

[5:15:13] Trustee Bernardo: I don't know why we'd have to come up with this idea that it has to be 100%.

[5:15:17] Trustee Bernardo: Why restrict the discretion of the LTC here?

[5:15:21] Voice 11: Just add the word may.

[5:15:25] Voice 11: Well, because actually,

[5:15:27] Trustee Luckham: you know, some areas it's 150%

[5:15:29] Trustee Luckham: because the estimates may be different than what it ends up being

[5:15:32] Trustee Luckham: when we end up having to go in and actually restore it ourselves.

[5:15:37] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I don't know why we have to talk about percentages.

[5:15:40] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, isn't that something that the LTC can decide in the context and decide, like, if we are thinking a security deposit is appropriate, why limit ourselves to 100% or 150 or whatever, or why impose it?

[5:15:56] Trustee Bernardo: Why

[5:15:57] Voice 11: not exercise judgment in a specific case?

[5:16:03] Voice 11: What would you recommend here for wording then?

[5:16:06] Trustee Bernardo: I would recommend what I've got here, which basically says, look, you know, you know, there may be circumstances.

[5:16:12] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, it just leaves the 100% thing off the table and goes back to the idea that, look, you may have to sort of keep working on this for two years.

[5:16:20] Trustee Bernardo: And there may be a program of continuing work here, just giving you that as a guideline.

[5:16:26] Trustee Bernardo: But then the whole security deposit business is covered by sort of leaving open at C, where we're now going to say a security deposit may be required.

[5:16:40] Trustee Bernardo: We're not saying how much it might be.

[5:16:42] Trustee Bernardo: we'll figure it out at the time so

[5:16:46] Trustee Luckham: yeah so you're deleting the entire section there

[5:16:48] Trustee Luckham: from what we're seeing on the screen here but what you're saying is just to um remove the 100

[5:16:56] Trustee Bernardo: basically that's the idea and the the first part is to remove the 100 concept and then the rest of

[5:17:01] Voice 11: it is to um just tighten up the language a bit and that would do it and um that's

[5:17:13] Trustee Bernardo: the end of it

[5:17:13] Trustee Bernardo: and of course you know i'm fine with removing those

[5:17:18] Voice 11: weird subdivision provisions that are in

[5:17:20] Voice 11: there okay so what are we agreeing upon on this last one uh we just

[5:17:31] Trustee Bernardo: we're waiting to hear from

[5:17:32] Trustee Bernardo: trustee stamford yeah

[5:17:34] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[5:17:35] Voice 14: okay yeah

[5:17:37] Trustee Luckham: so deleting what is a purple there to beginning with that

[5:17:42] Trustee Luckham: section you will begin with replanting shall be maintained yeah

[5:17:46] Trustee Bernardo: it says all replanting shall be

[5:17:48] Trustee Bernardo: maintained etc blah blah blah so it's basically accepting the changes as written there um so

[5:17:56] Trustee Bernardo: So where that leaves us now,

[5:17:58] Trustee Bernardo: is that we've got a handful of edits,

[5:18:04] Trustee Bernardo: which I think we're running out of time here.

[5:18:07] Trustee Bernardo: And I'm going to suggest it makes sense

[5:18:09] Trustee Bernardo: that staff has been tracking all of this.

[5:18:15] Trustee Bernardo: And it's clear, I think we need another meeting

[5:18:19] Trustee Bernardo: where we have a cleaner version of this.

[5:18:20] Trustee Bernardo: A lot of the stuff that we've agreed on

[5:18:22] Trustee Bernardo: is just sort of worked in and we take,

[5:18:26] Trustee Bernardo: and the changes that we're talking about now

[5:18:29] Trustee Bernardo: need to be brought forward so we can see them.

[5:18:31] Trustee Bernardo: And then there's also the larger issue

[5:18:35] Trustee Bernardo: of how we deal with the construction exemption

[5:18:39] Trustee Bernardo: I'm talking about and some of the changes

[5:18:42] Trustee Bernardo: that concern Trustee Stamford.

[5:18:44] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, so there's two big issues that I see,

[5:18:47] Trustee Stamford: which is how additions are added into construction

[5:18:52] Trustee Stamford: within the 15 meters.

[5:18:54] Trustee Stamford: and how we define what is appropriate doc material.

[5:19:04] Trustee Bernardo: We're under the impediment of having to deal with the no quorum rule.

[5:19:08] Trustee Bernardo: Otherwise, you and I could just spend some time together

[5:19:12] Trustee Bernardo: to sort of cobble together language that we think delivers the goods here.

[5:19:16] Trustee Bernardo: We can't do that outside of the framework of a meeting.

[5:19:20] Trustee Bernardo: If it's acceptable, I would suggest that perhaps Trustee Stamford

[5:19:26] Trustee Bernardo: could go off and do some thinking on her own and then send me what her thoughts are i won't respond

[5:19:33] Trustee Bernardo: to them i won't have a meeting won't have a discussion but then yeah

[5:19:37] Trustee Stamford: i i have you know i'm

[5:19:39] Trustee Stamford: happy to work on that encapsulated styrofoam thing and considering it um i'm just wondering

[5:19:48] Trustee Stamford: about that construction thing well

[5:19:52] Trustee Bernardo: i i will i'm going to go back i've heard what you've got to

[5:19:55] Trustee Bernardo: say about it and what planer mccarver and the sheriff said about it i'm going to go back and

[5:20:00] Trustee Bernardo: rethink that um and but uh we're getting very close here but um i gotta be honest with you

[5:20:08] Trustee Bernardo: guys that one's a huge one for me um and uh we're definitely going to have to come back to another

[5:20:14] Trustee Bernardo: meeting to get to the to finalize whatever version goes to the new second reading so

[5:20:20] Trustee Luckham: that's fine so

[5:20:22] Trustee Luckham: So let's just kind of summarize here while we've got a few minutes remaining.

[5:20:27] Trustee Luckham: So Diane, Corbett, and Flannery McCarver, I think that this is going to be difficult

[5:20:36] Trustee Luckham: for you to polish into whatever this next version of this document is, but it seems

[5:20:43] Trustee Luckham: obvious to me that there was areas at 1.2.1, Part 4, 1.2.2, deleting Section M.

[5:20:52] Trustee Luckham: again 1.2.2 deleting amending section n and then further on we had sections 0.6 e and 0.7 e

[5:21:05] Trustee Luckham: there's the main two issues that need to be returned to us for further conversation i'm

[5:21:11] Trustee Luckham: assuming that between your own notes and the recording of this meeting that hopefully you

[5:21:18] Trustee Luckham: could make sense of it to end up in a new draft version that's maybe closer to a final version

[5:21:26] Trustee Luckham: than what we've seen today?

[5:21:30] Voice 11: Is that a reasonable ask at this point?

[5:21:37] Planner McCargar: Through the chair, I feel quite

[5:21:38] Planner McCargar: clear. I have been, you know, working on my copy and kind of as we go, I do feel quite clear on

[5:21:44] Planner McCargar: on what's been endorsed and not,

[5:21:47] Planner McCargar: but I am a little bit stumped

[5:21:50] Planner McCargar: on how to get that into a resolution.

[5:21:56] Trustee Bernardo: We're not at the point yet for a resolution.

[5:21:58] Trustee Bernardo: I think what we need to do is keep reiterate,

[5:22:02] Trustee Bernardo: come up with another iteration of a draft

[5:22:05] Trustee Bernardo: and Trustee Sanford and I both have issues

[5:22:07] Trustee Bernardo: that we need to work out

[5:22:09] Trustee Bernardo: that we will have to discuss at the next meeting.

[5:22:12] Trustee Bernardo: and when we have the revised draft from the planner um it's going to be a simpler document

[5:22:21] Trustee Bernardo: to deal with and if we're if trustee sanford and i are able to come up with resolutions to these

[5:22:27] Trustee Bernardo: other outstanding issues those you know we can have a much simpler resolution at that point where

[5:22:34] Trustee Bernardo: we adopt the draft as prepared by planner mccarger with whatever changes if any that we get to at the

[5:22:43] Trustee Bernardo: the end of that next meeting that deal with these outstanding

[5:22:45] Voice 12: issues. I think that would be the way

[5:22:48] Voice 12: to go. I don't, I think it's a little unreasonable to expect the planner McCarver to come up with a

[5:22:52] Voice 12: resolution to deal with all this stuff right now. I think we're better off just having the document

[5:22:56] Voice 12: before us.

[5:22:57] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. I

[5:22:59] Planner McCargar: do need next steps though.

[5:23:00] Trustee Luckham: That's fine, Joe. And I get that. I've done this

[5:23:04] Trustee Luckham: before, believe it or not. But what I would like to advise staff is by resolution is that staff

[5:23:11] Trustee Luckham: staff take the elements discussed at the November 21st meeting and return with a new draft of the

[5:23:21] Trustee Luckham: bylaw for further consideration by the local trust committee. And we have our own sort of

[5:23:28] Trustee Luckham: individual marching orders. Kate's going to look after materials. Mr.

[5:23:33] Trustee Luckham: Bernardo, you're going to

[5:23:34] Trustee Luckham: to look after construction issues and and uh marlis you've indicated that you have a fairly

[5:23:41] Trustee Luckham: comprehensive list of those edits so does that meet your need to take on further

[5:23:45] Voice 11: action at this

[5:23:46] Voice 11: point yeah so can i so diane did you capture that yes i did

[5:23:55] Trustee Luckham: excellent and so is there somebody

[5:23:58] Trustee Luckham: wants to second that motion that's direction i seconded it

[5:24:01] Trustee Luckham: any further discussion all those in

[5:24:04] Trustee Luckham: favor aye

[5:24:06] Voice 11: thank

[5:24:07] Trustee Luckham: you for that um okay and so then i'm guessing here now we also need to provide

[5:24:13] Trustee Luckham: staff direction to schedule another meeting although our next meeting is now already

[5:24:18] Trustee Luckham: scheduled for january the 23rd 29th and i think realistically that's probably as good as it's

[5:24:27] Trustee Luckham: going to get is there some expectation beyond that

[5:24:30] Trustee Bernardo: no not for me i don't think it's realistic

[5:24:33] Trustee Bernardo: to try to get anything done between now and then.

[5:24:35] Trustee Bernardo: We ought to get a lot done between now and then,

[5:24:38] Trustee Bernardo: but I don't think we can schedule a meeting.

[5:24:42] Trustee Stamford: And keep in mind, we've just dropped this as a top priority, right?

[5:24:47] Trustee Stamford: So our top priority is...

[5:24:52] Trustee Bernardo: Right, dealing with the connected coast issue, yeah.

[5:24:55] Trustee Luckham: All right, so then that segues me into that our next meeting

[5:24:58] Trustee Luckham: is Tuesday, January the...

[5:25:00] Trustee Luckham: Monday.

[5:25:01] Trustee Luckham: it's monday january the 29th yeah um and is that now in person or online

[5:25:11] Trustee Luckham: that

[5:25:11] Trustee Bernardo: will be online okay

[5:25:13] Trustee Luckham: well then that concludes our meeting today you know i gotta say you guys

[5:25:19] Trustee Luckham: have invested a lot of energy and thought into this and staff have uh worked really hard to try

[5:25:26] Trustee Luckham: and gather the different points of view

[5:25:30] Trustee Luckham: to end up in a good place.

[5:25:32] Trustee Luckham: I think we've ended up in a good place today.

[5:25:34] Trustee Luckham: We've identified the two remaining issues

[5:25:37] Trustee Luckham: and everything else is going to move forward.

[5:25:39] Trustee Luckham: And as Trustee Bernardo said,

[5:25:40] Trustee Luckham: the next version of this will be cleaner and simpler.

[5:25:44] Trustee Luckham: And thank you, Donna McCargar.

[5:25:47] Trustee Luckham: And thank you, Renee,

[5:25:48] Trustee Luckham: if you're still in the background there

[5:25:49] Trustee Luckham: and particularly Brenda for the minutes

[5:25:52] Trustee Luckham: that you've been working on.

[5:25:55] Trustee Luckham: So without any further

[5:25:56] Trustee Luckham: ado, I'm going to call the meeting adjourned.

[5:25:59] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you, everybody, for your patience.

[5:26:03] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah,

[5:26:04] Voice 11: thanks, everybody.