Islands Trust Council regular meeting, December 6, 2023

[0:00:00] Trustee Luckham: Islands Trust. My name is Peter Luckerman, Chair of Islands Trust Council. And we have

[0:00:06] Trustee Luckham: gotten through to Section 6. We have a few items to pick up a little later on today from

[0:00:13] Trustee Luckham: yesterday that we didn't conclude, but we had a good day yesterday. And today we're

[0:00:16] Trustee Luckham: going to start off with a vision discussion. And indeed, in that vision discussion, I want

[0:00:23] Trustee Luckham: to acknowledge and embrace that we're meeting here on Coast Salish Territory and the Lgonquin

[0:00:28] Trustee Luckham: speaking people's song, He's in a Squamult. And I certainly looked out the window this morning

[0:00:34] Trustee Luckham: with a fellow trustee and reflected on, it doesn't look much like what it used to look like.

[0:00:43] Trustee Luckham: And it's sobering to think that this was a very big village site, a gathering place,

[0:00:51] Trustee Luckham: a food harvesting place. And it is certainly different today. And certainly in that time,

[0:00:56] Trustee Luckham: since the colonists arrived here there has been a lot of change and there's

[0:01:02] Trustee Luckham: been a lot of grief and tragedy and we need to recognize that and work towards

[0:01:08] Trustee Luckham: a better time in the future so thank everybody for that and vision statement

[0:01:17] Trustee Luckham: I want to thank staff for having assisted us in providing us some ideas

[0:01:22] Trustee Luckham: and reflection on what happened at the previous council and we're here to

[0:01:26] Trustee Luckham: revisit this i do want to stick to the time so if we're not getting to a place

[0:01:33] Trustee Luckham: that we are either endorsing or not endorsing some sort of a vision statement i just simply

[0:01:38] Trustee Luckham: want to move on and we'll bring it back again a future date so cao over to you well thank you

[0:01:46] Voice 34: very much good morning trust council uh great to be with you of course uh emily i thank you i'd

[0:01:51] Voice 34: I'd like to take us to page 115 in the agenda.

[0:01:56] Voice 34: And, of course, you know, you've got this report in front of you.

[0:02:00] Voice 34: You tasked staff with coming back on some reflections

[0:02:03] Voice 34: on how you left the conversation in September.

[0:02:06] Voice 34: I will say, out of all the reporting that we did for this Trust Council

[0:02:12] Voice 34: over the last couple of months, I found this challenging.

[0:02:15] Voice 34: I put a lot of thought into how to address your question, and really these are governance questions.

[0:02:26] Voice 34: So we can only, as staff, do our best to sort of reflect some of the options that you have available to you.

[0:02:32] Voice 34: So I don't suggest that this report is definitive in any way,

[0:02:36] Voice 34: but hopefully it gets you into a position where you can continue your conversation and see where you are.

[0:02:41] Voice 34: uh very very briefly certainly the conversation that we had and i'll just take us back to the

[0:02:48] Voice 34: reason aside from this organization really not having a succinct vision statement is that we're

[0:02:56] Voice 34: engaging in a corporate planning process and part of that process needs uh um you know a SWOT analysis

[0:03:03] Voice 34: so a look at um the context that we're in both internally externally and also a vision and then

[0:03:10] Voice 34: And from that vision becomes reflections on the mission, objectives, strategies, work plans, budget, and some sort of sequence like that.

[0:03:20] Voice 34: So I think that's at least one of the current day imperatives to take on the question of a visioning statement.

[0:03:28] Voice 34: You'll recall that you went through a process of consideration.

[0:03:33] Voice 34: You came up with sort of a draft statement,

[0:03:37] Voice 34: a vibrant tapestry of caring, diverse, and rural communities

[0:03:40] Voice 34: within the St. Louis Sea that flourish in harmony with nature.

[0:03:44] Voice 34: Then some reflection afterwards and reflection going,

[0:03:49] Voice 34: are we fully explaining and understanding ourselves

[0:03:54] Voice 34: and having others understand our commitment to reconciliation

[0:03:57] Voice 34: as we look at our visioning process?

[0:04:00] Voice 34: process and can we can move forward with the vision and how we best make that declaration

[0:04:08] Voice 34: of interest in advancing reconciliation work so to that end you then said you wanted to postpone

[0:04:14] Voice 34: till December and request some advice on the process of vision and mission in light of

[0:04:20] Voice 34: responsibilities of reconciliation so right here there's a brief review of some of the

[0:04:28] Voice 34: the reconciliation work certainly six or seven paragraphs doesn't do it justice but I can also

[0:04:34] Voice 34: state that I believe that the Islands Trust has started on in a reasonable direction in its

[0:04:40] Voice 34: reconciliation journey but is nowhere near where it needs to be and certainly I would point to

[0:04:45] Voice 34: particularly with this council on page 114 that the need or the possibility being made

[0:04:56] Voice 34: for a trust council to collectively consider whether and how the islands trust will adapt

[0:05:00] Voice 34: its processes to be consistent with the uh the un declaration on the rights of indigenous people

[0:05:06] Voice 34: increase political engagement with first nations communities understanding and working with local

[0:05:11] Voice 34: indigenous communities determining how to incorporate first nations input from the referral

[0:05:15] Voice 34: process sort of the day-to-day work for any given bylaw that may be in conflict or in challenge with

[0:05:22] Voice 34: with the interests of the LTC and how has that landed

[0:05:25] Voice 34: and how do we reconcile that?

[0:05:27] Voice 34: And finally, in our budgeting and our work planning,

[0:05:30] Voice 34: how do we accommodate what is necessarily an increase

[0:05:34] Voice 34: in work in true engagement and cooperation?

[0:05:40] Voice 34: So those are some key questions,

[0:05:42] Voice 34: I guess that the consideration in front of you today

[0:05:44] Voice 34: is do you need to address those things before you can vision?

[0:05:47] Voice 34: And I've offered you sort of three ways to approach this,

[0:05:50] Voice 34: which i'm anticipating i'm going to wrap up fairly soon you'll have the opportunity to

[0:05:55] Voice 34: to riff off of these the first is to adopt a vision statement either as presented or very

[0:06:01] Voice 34: similar to it and that's under this um the following um considerations that while important

[0:06:07] Voice 34: um a vision statement um provides a general direction forward but it's truly reconciliation

[0:06:15] Voice 34: Isolation is truly achieved through how we act, how we decide together, how we communicate, how we engage, all of which are essentially constituent parts of the mission, the purpose, values, work procedures, communication back and forth.

[0:06:34] Voice 34: And those aren't really grounded in the vision statement itself.

[0:06:38] Voice 34: itself. So to summarize this option, the language and the object itself, which was changed recently

[0:06:44] Voice 34: at Trust Council's direction to include First Nations in that statement. So you could, I think,

[0:06:54] Voice 34: intellectually, emotionally or with intention, possibly adopt a vision statement, given that

[0:06:59] Voice 34: the language and the object sets out preserving and protecting the unique amenities environment

[0:07:03] Voice 34: of the Trust is done in cooperation with nations and whatever reconciliation principles and policies

[0:07:08] Voice 34: policies are embedded in the policy statement. And finally, in direction of the work of staff

[0:07:14] Voice 34: and LTCs working with nations. So that's an option for you. If that's not appropriate,

[0:07:21] Voice 34: you could adopt vision statement but include some words, some direct words that address

[0:07:26] Voice 34: your intentions with regards to reconciliation. We offer you five here, just for consideration.

[0:07:33] Voice 34: consideration, you could come up with another five or another 10, I expect, but these are

[0:07:37] Voice 34: offered that basically play off of the original concept that you developed. And finally, in the

[0:07:44] Voice 34: third, and I think there's no shame in this, you could go, no, we need to do some of this work

[0:07:48] Voice 34: first. We don't know how long it's going to take. We primarily probably go in and work on a

[0:07:58] Voice 34: reconciliation action plan get that more coherent and get the planning associated with that underway

[0:08:05] Voice 34: and work through some of the things that are indicated in this report prior to feeling

[0:08:11] Voice 34: comfortable visioning for the organization so that's really the third consideration for you

[0:08:17] Voice 34: and i i hesitate to uh to lead you through any process certainly i think we should turn it back

[0:08:23] Voice 34: to the chair and maybe you can reflect on the report initially and see where you land i know

[0:08:28] Voice 34: you've got an hour and 20 minutes and um you know i just humbly offer this report for your

[0:08:34] Voice 11: consideration thank

[0:08:38] Trustee Luckham: you very much ceo you said it very well and indeed the conversations at this

[0:08:42] Trustee Luckham: table um the chair doesn't want to necessarily leave the conversation i want you to leave the

[0:08:47] Trustee Luckham: conversation so um um the floor is open um we've heard the vision statement that was crafted

[0:08:55] Trustee Luckham: a vibrant tapestry of caring diverse and rural communities within the sailor sea that flourish

[0:09:00] Trustee Luckham: in harmony with nature it in itself is a beautiful statement whether you want to enhance that or

[0:09:05] Trustee Luckham: change it completely is uh up to you so let's start off um we'll get a show of hands and who

[0:09:11] Trustee Luckham: wants to start us off who wants

[0:09:13] Trustee Luckham: to be the first person christina evans and i'm going to let david

[0:09:16] Trustee Luckham: Could MOG manage that selection?

[0:09:20] Trustee Evans: Thank you.

[0:09:21] Trustee Evans: Good morning, everyone.

[0:09:23] Trustee Evans: Yeah, I really think we got very close on our last attempt.

[0:09:28] Trustee Evans: And personally, I'm leaning towards number four

[0:09:30] Trustee Evans: because we have started some of the work.

[0:09:33] Trustee Evans: There's a lot of work yet to be done.

[0:09:35] Trustee Evans: We understand that it is a journey.

[0:09:37] Trustee Evans: And I just like how it's both a present and a future date statement.

[0:09:42] Trustee Evans: So while on a journey of reconciliation,

[0:09:45] Trustee Evans: reconciliation, Island Trust Council envisions a vibrant tapestry of caring, diverse, and rural

[0:09:50] Trustee Evans: communities within the Salish Sea that flourish in harmony with nature. So I'd like to see if

[0:09:56] Trustee Evans: other people like number four, maybe we can have a conversation around that one.

[0:10:04] Voice 26: Trustee Borthwick. Morning.

[0:10:10] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah, so I unfortunately missed the last day of Last

[0:10:14] Trustee Borthwick: Trust Council, which is apparently where the wheels fell off a little bit in this conversation,

[0:10:18] Trustee Borthwick: and I'm sorry for not having been part of that conversation.

[0:10:24] Trustee Borthwick: I would be really keen for us not to postpone this conversation

[0:10:29] Trustee Borthwick: into the future indefinitely.

[0:10:31] Trustee Borthwick: A vision is a really important, you know,

[0:10:35] Trustee Borthwick: lodestone for an organization.

[0:10:37] Trustee Borthwick: It helps set the tone, sets the intention.

[0:10:40] Trustee Borthwick: I think it's important that we make sure that we can,

[0:10:43] Trustee Borthwick: I think we can, we got really close.

[0:10:45] Trustee Borthwick: We were having a good conversation.

[0:10:46] Trustee Borthwick: I know it got a little tense towards the end,

[0:10:48] Trustee Borthwick: But I think we were doing really well last time. I'd love to put this to bed to some degree and not at the risk of rushing into it, though.

[0:10:57] Trustee Borthwick: I want to make sure we're happy. To my mind, I think that the tenets of reconciliation that I don't think there's anyone around this table that doesn't think it's an important component.

[0:11:11] Trustee Borthwick: component I don't know that I necessarily would need that language to live within the vision

[0:11:15] Trustee Borthwick: I think it exists within a lot of other stuff that we have exists within the mandate

[0:11:21] Trustee Borthwick: to add it in I to me the the vibe of tapestry of a caring community is a community that that

[0:11:30] Trustee Borthwick: cares about reconciliation that's to me that's inherent in the language of it I'm happy to

[0:11:37] Trustee Borthwick: I'm not that invested

[0:11:39] Trustee Borthwick: if you really want to put reconciliation in there

[0:11:41] Trustee Borthwick: by all means, but I think it's

[0:11:43] Trustee Borthwick: inherent in what it is and it's

[0:11:45] Trustee Borthwick: explicitly stated in other parts of our

[0:11:47] Voice 26: literature.

[0:11:51] Voice 26: Dusty Mabry.

[0:11:56] Voice 26: I don't think there's any secret

[0:11:58] Voice 23: for those that were at the last meeting

[0:12:01] Voice 23: what my views on this are.

[0:12:04] Voice 23: I don't see

[0:12:06] Voice 23: I mean, first of all,

[0:12:07] Voice 23: I'm going to say I really appreciate the document.

[0:12:10] Voice 23: I think it's

[0:12:12] Voice 23: this is the type of document that

[0:12:14] Voice 23: Not only should we be working our way through, but also the nations should receive a document like this so that they can understand the process that we're in, right?

[0:12:25] Voice 23: And I appreciate the document.

[0:12:26] Voice 23: I appreciate the fact that it identifies areas around reconciliation that need to be done.

[0:12:35] Voice 23: I like the beginning of every meeting, we all introduce ourselves.

[0:12:45] Voice 23: and what do we say during our introduction we acknowledge the territory that we are

[0:12:53] Voice 26: trustees for right and why do we do that right

[0:12:59] Voice 23: i mean we're trying to to advance ourselves down a

[0:13:04] Voice 23: road of reconciliation but quite frankly we haven't i mean we're moving forward with the

[0:13:11] Voice 23: vision but we haven't moved forward with any sort of documents any sort of vision around

[0:13:17] Voice 23: reconciliation. And like I say, it's no secret where I stand. I'm not saying that this body

[0:13:33] Voice 23: can't create a vision, can't adopt a vision. But I think we have to be really clear who are we

[0:13:39] Voice 23: adopting this vision for? Because if we're going to introduce ourselves at the beginning of every

[0:13:43] Voice 23: meeting and acknowledge that we're on the territory of local nation,

[0:13:47] Voice 26: then we should be

[0:13:48] Voice 26: be adopting a vision for them we haven't heard from them right we can adopt

[0:13:56] Voice 23: the vision and it'll

[0:13:57] Voice 23: be a draft it won't be it's not like we're adopting the vision this morning i would think

[0:14:01] Voice 23: i would hope not um but we there's nothing wrong with us and that's why i like this document because

[0:14:11] Voice 23: it asks some questions right and it's not just the questions that we need to to talk about but

[0:14:16] Voice 23: it's the questions that the nations need to talk about as well right amongst themselves and get

[0:14:20] Voice 23: back to us on so um i'm well aware there's a desire to do this

[0:14:27] Voice 26: in the room i'm just saying

[0:14:34] Voice 23: unless we do the hard work of of sitting down with the nations and getting their feedback

[0:14:43] Voice 23: on the process not the feedback on what we've decided the feedback on the process

[0:14:51] Voice 23: sex, then I don't see how we move ahead. I don't think it would be genuine. That's just the way I

[0:15:02] Voice 23: feel. I mean, it's a simple question. How many of the LTCs, when you're doing your business,

[0:15:12] Voice 23: sit down with the local nations and the

[0:15:16] Voice 26: local councils and do that business, right? I mean,

[0:15:22] Voice 26: I mean, that was the first time in 50

[0:15:24] Voice 23: years that our LTC did that, right?

[0:15:29] Voice 23: And we didn't sit down and say, this is what we've decided.

[0:15:33] Voice 23: What do you think?

[0:15:34] Voice 23: We said, here are the applications.

[0:15:35] Voice 23: What do you think, right?

[0:15:37] Voice 23: So they are entering into the same process that we're entering into.

[0:15:42] Voice 26: So if we're doing this, this is exactly

[0:15:47] Voice 23: how we should be doing this process too.

[0:15:50] Voice 23: If they're not in the room, then we have to make sure that they're engaged in the process.

[0:15:55] Voice 23: And we're not doing that.

[0:15:58] Voice 23: So those are my thoughts.

[0:16:01] Voice 23: I mean, I'm one vote out of whatever it is here.

[0:16:05] Voice 23: But, and I understand that there is this desire to have a vision.

[0:16:10] Voice 26: But if the vision is going to mean nothing, then why are we doing it?

[0:16:18] Voice 26: If we haven't, if we

[0:16:20] Voice 23: don't have all our constituents in this room, the ones that have a voice, why are we doing it?

[0:16:26] Voice 23: So those are my thoughts for now.

[0:16:28] Voice 23: I mean, I probably have more as we go through this.

[0:16:30] Voice 23: But, you know, because of the way the last one ended,

[0:16:35] Voice 23: I felt it was necessary to sort of be one of the first speakers

[0:16:38] Voice 23: to sort of clarify my position before we

[0:16:41] Voice 26: started this one.

[0:16:42] Voice 26: So thanks.

[0:16:52] Voice 26: Claire, unfortunately, is not live in the room.

[0:16:56] Voice 34: And she may be online, I'm not sure.

[0:16:59] Voice 34: But I think at this point she would say this

[0:17:01] Voice 34: and want you aware that the policy statement

[0:17:05] Voice 34: is this period that we're in and remember we discussed the policy statement yesterday

[0:17:12] Voice 34: there are eight or nine nations who are fully fully have taken on the vision statement the uh

[0:17:19] Voice 34: sorry the policy statement and have put time and energy into it and their comments

[0:17:27] Voice 34: are being folded into the document you're about to receive for your consideration so there are a

[0:17:34] Voice 34: a number of nations who are very specifically interested

[0:17:37] Voice 34: in one of your guiding documents

[0:17:40] Voice 34: and wish to participate in this development.

[0:17:43] Voice 34: So that's a sort of a corollary to your process,

[0:17:46] Voice 34: but I think that don't underestimate the policy statement

[0:17:50] Voice 34: as a key means of engagement around some of these issues.

[0:17:54] Voice 34: Thank you.

[0:18:06] Voice 26: Thank you.

[0:18:08] Voice 29: Yeah, and I support the intent of your words,

[0:18:12] Voice 29: Trustee Maverly, it's...

[0:18:15] Voice 29: It is super important that we check in at every stage of our work because we can't go on on the assumptions that have built this organization for the last 50 years.

[0:18:24] Voice 29: We need to do new things and work in new ways.

[0:18:31] Voice 29: So that I think is really important.

[0:18:33] Voice 29: The place that I think this lands for me personally is I'm actually comfortable moving forward with the original, what we sort of drafted at the end of last session, sat with it, knowing that reconciliation fits into a large part of our programming,

[0:19:00] Voice 29: is built into our budgets is i'm not saying the work is adequate even yet but this is not

[0:19:08] Voice 29: necessarily the place to tie everything together i think this is the place where we start to say

[0:19:17] Voice 29: we're moving in a new direction into a future this is what we envision and how we're going to

[0:19:23] Voice 29: work it out is through the the mission and the mandate and our programming and so i'm comfortable

[0:19:30] Voice 29: actually with the sort of the first draft knowing that it could be changed and adapted as we get

[0:19:37] Voice 29: the feedback back and maybe we could develop a process to bring this forward along with the

[0:19:44] Voice 29: policy statement and say you know to the nations what do you think of this and how how does how

[0:19:50] Voice 29: does this fit with your vision for the trust area would be the way that I'd like to see us ask that

[0:19:55] Voice 29: question um so it's a starting point it brings us together in a way and we represent diverse

[0:20:06] Voice 29: caring and rural communities this is us this is trust council we're trying to say how do we want

[0:20:13] Voice 29: to move into the future and uh i think you know we landed in a pretty good place i'm pretty

[0:20:19] Voice 29: comfortable with that draft knowing that there's more work to be done so i'd be comfortable with

[0:20:26] Voice 29: option number

[0:20:26] Voice 26: one trustee bernardo uh yeah i just wanted to um

[0:20:35] Trustee Bernardo: voice my agreement with trustee

[0:20:40] Trustee Bernardo: maverly's remarks it might well be that we could reach consensus or agreement uh today about a

[0:20:48] Trustee Bernardo: a vision statement but process does matter as trustees we represent everyone in our communities

[0:20:58] Trustee Bernardo: but in a limited way we res we represent them all for the limited purposes that are in the

[0:21:04] Trustee Bernardo: statute we do not represent first nations or indigenous people we are not in a position

[0:21:13] Trustee Bernardo: really to say anything meaningful about their rights their future their interests

[0:21:20] Trustee Bernardo: But we do recognize that we need to engage with First Nations.

[0:21:24] Trustee Bernardo: It's essential. It's the way forward.

[0:21:27] Trustee Bernardo: And if that's the direction that we're going to go, then we should be speaking with the Indigenous people in our communities before we settle on a vision statement.

[0:21:42] Trustee Bernardo: So that at the end of the process, we might well, at the end of that process, adopt the very same language that was so controversial.

[0:21:49] Trustee Bernardo: controversial well agreed to and then became controversial at the last meeting but then if

[0:21:55] Trustee Bernardo: we do so then it's with the understanding within this group but also within the community at large

[0:22:03] Trustee Bernardo: and especially with the first nations that we've consulted they will understand where we're coming

[0:22:10] Trustee Bernardo: from they will understand that we're trying to be inclusive with that language they will appreciate

[0:22:16] Trustee Bernardo: I appreciate the fact that we spoke as community members

[0:22:22] Trustee Bernardo: with each other to clarify what we meant.

[0:22:27] Trustee Bernardo: They will have been included after generations

[0:22:33] Trustee Bernardo: of being excluded in these types of discussions.

[0:22:38] Trustee Bernardo: So I think it's the right thing to do to discuss this today.

[0:22:45] Trustee Bernardo: But before we make any final decisions

[0:22:46] Trustee Bernardo: decisions to engage in a process of talking with our First Nation and Indigenous communities

[0:22:54] Trustee Bernardo: about this very thing. Thank you.

[0:22:57] Voice 26: Trustee Graham.

[0:23:01] Voice 26: Thank you.

[0:23:05] Voice 12: I sit here and I agree with everything I've heard. And I like the idea of

[0:23:12] Voice 12: obviously having First Nations consider these words. So what words would we like First Nations

[0:23:19] Voice 12: And those words, I would agree with Trustee Elliott, is the vibrant tapestry of caring, diverse and rural communities within the Salish Sea that flourish in harmony with nature.

[0:23:32] Voice 12: What do you think, First Nations? Does this work for you? I feel comfortable with that course of action.

[0:23:40] Voice 12: Trustee Yates.

[0:23:41] Voice 25: Thank

[0:23:43] Voice 20: you. I feel comfortable with number one. And I also feel very comfortable with number four, for the reasons that Trustee Evans stated, but also because listening to all of you, and particularly to Trustee Maberly, I believe that our aspirations regarding First Nations in the trust area are part of our journey.

[0:24:12] Voice 20: And we don't know, you know, we're on a journey of reconciliation.

[0:24:17] Voice 20: And I really feel quite comfortable with that.

[0:24:23] Voice 26: Thank you.

[0:24:23] Voice 26: No other speakers.

[0:24:29] Voice 26: It's been really interesting listening to everybody.

[0:24:34] Trustee Evans: And I'm in agreement as well that,

[0:24:37] Trustee Evans: and I guess it was my assumption that this was going to go to First Nations.

[0:24:43] Trustee Evans: My only concern with number one is the statement that reconciliation

[0:24:47] Trustee Evans: as the heart of the Islands Trust work,

[0:24:50] Trustee Evans: I believe that preserve and protect

[0:24:52] Trustee Evans: is the heart of the Islands Trust work.

[0:24:55] Trustee Evans: That's the only reason why I didn't think of number one

[0:24:59] Trustee Evans: and I don't want people within our community

[0:25:02] Trustee Evans: to get upset as well.

[0:25:04] Trustee Evans: So that was the only reason why I stayed away from number one.

[0:25:07] Trustee Evans: I, yeah, so I'm definitely in favor

[0:25:11] Trustee Evans: of getting us to agree on a version today

[0:25:16] Trustee Evans: and having it sent over to First Nations for their input,

[0:25:19] Trustee Evans: and then we can move forward.

[0:25:21] Voice 25: Trustee Peterson.

[0:25:25] Voice 16: So what I'm hearing around the table,

[0:25:29] Voice 16: or a lot of what I'm hearing around the table,

[0:25:31] Voice 16: is I tend to agree with.

[0:25:36] Voice 16: I think if we can land on,

[0:25:39] Voice 16: we could call it a proposed vision statement today

[0:25:43] Voice 16: and agree on the language that we would be comfortable referring out,

[0:25:51] Voice 16: and putting out there for First Nations comment

[0:25:55] Voice 16: that maybe that's our way forward at this time.

[0:25:59] Voice 16: I would prefer that we don't postpone the process

[0:26:07] Voice 16: for any length of time.

[0:26:11] Voice 16: My sense is that this is an integral part

[0:26:15] Voice 16: of the corporate planning,

[0:26:18] Voice 16: moving the corporate planning forward,

[0:26:19] Voice 16: forward, which I also don't want to slow down, but I think in terms of being respectful of

[0:26:28] Voice 16: First Nations thoughts and feelings about what our vision statement is, to me that's

[0:26:35] Voice 16: the simplest way forward, is to get somewhere today with a proposed vision statement that

[0:26:41] Voice 16: we can shop out.

[0:26:44] Voice 26: Trustee Morrison.

[0:26:51] Voice 26: I think I have a question, listening

[0:26:54] Voice 3: to all of this, and I also agree with many of

[0:26:57] Voice 3: the things that have been said um i have the same idea as tim i think i would say a draft

[0:27:04] Voice 3: um vision statement just to keep it really like open for comments um but i guess it's

[0:27:11] Voice 3: more of a question about process like where do we

[0:27:15] Voice 4: see um because first nations involvement

[0:27:22] Voice 4: like at the foundation of this work is important but with the trust policy statement

[0:27:28] Voice 4: it was also difficult to get engagement until we had something to like engage with so like and yet

[0:27:35] Voice 4: at the same time we don't want to get so far along or so entrenched in anything that it is that it's

[0:27:41] Voice 4: not workable we have some relationships but not all relationships to be able to get engagement

[0:27:47] Voice 4: um and you know how we even think about engagement are we taking something to them for feedback are

[0:27:53] Voice 4: Are we honestly putting something on the table for collaborative, like, messing with?

[0:27:58] Voice 4: So I guess I have a question that, to figure out what I think about this, I need to understand what we think our process is a little bit more.

[0:28:09] Voice 34: Over to the CEO.

[0:28:12] Voice 34: Well, Trust Council, I'm treading on eggshells here, but I'll offer this 30 seconds to you.

[0:28:18] Voice 34: The option that's being discussed was not included in the report, and that is to have a contingent vision statement.

[0:28:25] Voice 34: that you then refer out to First Nations to say, do you think this is what we think?

[0:28:31] Voice 34: I think that if you're a First Nation who's responding to the Islands Trust right now,

[0:28:37] Voice 34: and you're one of the nine nations that I mentioned earlier,

[0:28:40] Voice 34: who have profoundly over two years put effort into reviewing the policy statement,

[0:28:46] Voice 34: and others who may be interested as well, but real work,

[0:28:51] Voice 34: I think that's the vehicle by which you're having a conversation around how the future is going to be.

[0:28:57] Voice 34: it would i think it might be a challenge then to be referred to one sentence um description of what

[0:29:04] Voice 34: the future is going to be when you're doing weighty work at the same time um i would suggest

[0:29:11] Voice 34: that you would probably if if you're if you want to make it a draft just think this over

[0:29:16] Voice 34: receive the policy statement and see whether you agree with the principles inside it which are

[0:29:21] Voice 34: stronger than they are expressed in any other documentation we have at the trust right now

[0:29:25] Voice 34: Now, that's because Trust Council of a previous time said they wanted that.

[0:29:30] Voice 34: And because nations have provided some feedback, which, first of all, includes First Nations in the policy statement where it wasn't before.

[0:29:37] Voice 34: So that's ongoing, substantive work.

[0:29:40] Voice 34: I would not suggest that you take a draft of this and then say and refer it out as an entity itself.

[0:29:49] Voice 34: Maybe the work that comes back from the policy statement will inform your vision and you define it in some way.

[0:29:56] Voice 34: and you wouldn't have to re-refer it out because you'd know where you're at.

[0:30:00] Voice 34: because you'd have dealt with some of these questions i'm not sure but i just wanted to

[0:30:05] Voice 34: point out that i didn't offer that option because i i just didn't think that's a saleable position

[0:30:12] Voice 34: for the trust to be in that could be wrong but i offer you that thought before you um land on a

[0:30:19] Voice 34: conclusion thank

[0:30:19] Voice 25: you thank you trustee dodds to

[0:30:24] Voice 32: me that the key words here are we are caring and

[0:30:28] Voice 32: diverse rural communities we have first nations people within our communities who are not part

[0:30:33] Voice 32: or not even from from this area so i think those are the key words so when we say we're carrying a

[0:30:38] Voice 32: diverse we're also caring and about how our process towards reconciliation is going and we

[0:30:45] Voice 32: are working towards as individual communities and as an island's trust so it's wide open statement

[0:30:50] Voice 32: that allows for us to continue working with first nations we can send it out to our current first

[0:30:56] Voice 32: nations that are working with us i don't think we need to get that specific towards the actual

[0:31:02] Voice 32: wording on reconciliation i think it's more general the first whatever four more or less

[0:31:08] Voice 32: cover it but to me when we talk diverse i think about all the individuals who live in my community

[0:31:13] Voice 32: and we have a very diverse community all of whom are working towards reconciliation i don't think

[0:31:18] Voice 32: we need to state that in this vision statement we're all working there we have been for a long

[0:31:23] Voice 32: time um

[0:31:26] Trustee Luckham: thank thank you i if you don't mind i'll interrupt i have a question that i think might be

[0:31:31] Trustee Luckham: helpful of the CAO in that a vision statement will become an element of many of our pieces

[0:31:41] Trustee Luckham: of documentation. It may be on letterhead, it may be in reports continuously, it may be in lots of

[0:31:47] Trustee Luckham: places. I think, and this is a question, that the policy statement will ultimately land in the

[0:31:54] Trustee Luckham: policy statement. The vision statement will end up landing on the first page of the policy statement

[0:32:01] Trustee Luckham: to frame the work of the policy statement.

[0:32:05] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, the beautiful language is used here,

[0:32:08] Trustee Luckham: and I support the basic vision statement that came out from the last session,

[0:32:14] Trustee Luckham: with or without changes.

[0:32:17] Trustee Luckham: The policy statement will articulate elements of what that vision says, I think.

[0:32:23] Trustee Luckham: So is that a correct assumption, sir?

[0:32:25] Trustee Luckham: I

[0:32:25] Voice 34: think that's a fair assumption.

[0:32:26] Voice 34: assumption. It would have to be attached to what we do somehow, and I think that's probably a good

[0:32:32] Voice 34: place for it. Just in the moment, that would be my answer to you, yes.

[0:32:39] Trustee Luckham: So in a bit of a follow-up

[0:32:41] Trustee Luckham: to sort of help answer the question that Trustee Morrison had, is that indeed the policy statement

[0:32:46] Trustee Luckham: at the moment is out with a number of nations, a significant number of nations with a significant

[0:32:51] Trustee Luckham: amount of work coming to it. It's going to come to us, and we're going to look at it, and we are

[0:32:55] Trustee Luckham: or two going to change it and we may or may not insert this um vision statement at the head of it

[0:33:02] Trustee Luckham: and then it will presumably go out for one more round of consultation within the community and

[0:33:07] Trustee Luckham: with nations and with the province and with the province don't let me forget

[0:33:12] Voice 26: so great thank you

[0:33:14] Voice 26: for those answers trustee milton thank you um i think

[0:33:20] Voice 37: i echo uh trustee maybelly and some other

[0:33:24] Voice 37: other speakers. Taking some time to work on the vision statement isn't going to affect

[0:33:31] Voice 37: our corporate plan or the policy statement work, but I think it's a chance for us to broaden the

[0:33:39] Voice 37: framework. We've chosen some nice words, but I agree the CAO did a great job because this document

[0:33:46] Voice 37: doesn't say, here it is, what are your comments? It says, here's some of potentially the issues

[0:33:52] Voice 37: about why we didn't get there and I think it's a chance to broaden the framework to Indigenous

[0:33:58] Voice 37: people to say what in a sense what's your vision for the trust area reconciliation what does that

[0:34:04] Voice 37: mean for young Indigenous people I think generally that would mean land back well are we talking

[0:34:09] Voice 37: about land back is that our vision for the future of the trust I don't think we're there I don't

[0:34:13] Voice 37: think we understand enough I think we have to have those hard conversations and I think it's time I

[0:34:18] Voice 37: I think it's time to bring it out of the professional structure of staff to staff between nation and nation and us and our communities and political leaders of Indigenous communities to have these conversations around the table like this.

[0:34:33] Voice 37: Because my concern is that we get too far ahead of our constituents and we have a collapse in terms of what we've built, in terms of how we're referencing Indigenous, a vision of Indigenous perhaps co-management or co-governance for the trust area.

[0:34:47] Voice 37: And it reminds me of, I think this was about two months ago in Australia, where Indigenous people placed a huge amount of hope on the voice, the voice to Parliament.

[0:34:57] Voice 37: And it was incredibly meaningful.

[0:35:00] Voice 37: It didn't violate the constitutional mores of the Parliament, but it was more than

[0:35:07] Voice 37: symbolic of a chance for all Indigenous people to comment on legislation and have a voice in Parliament.

[0:35:14] Voice 37: That was the name of it. And it was defeated at referendum by a large margin. It's a huge disaster and tragedy for Indigenous people and Indigenous relations in Australia. And I just have a sense we might be going down that road if we start to choose words and put them out to say, dear First Nations government, can you please comment on this draft?

[0:35:34] Voice 37: draft i think ben's right it's time to say bring your words to the table like we're not it's going

[0:35:40] Voice 37: to be a process we're not going to get a neat statement but i you know he and i i think saw

[0:35:45] Voice 37: the willingness so we saw the willingness of some of the younger policy managers and whatnot amongst

[0:35:49] Voice 37: the nations it's a little more militant than perhaps a group of well-meaning um uh trustees

[0:35:57] Voice 37: from you know predominantly white communities let's just be honest might have the tolerance

[0:36:02] Voice 37: for but it's the conversation that we have to have and i think this is a great segue it's not

[0:36:08] Voice 37: a huge amount of words like the policy statement but it's broad meaningful words and it's a chance

[0:36:14] Voice 37: for first nations to bring broad meaningful words and us to and i mean it might not go well you know

[0:36:20] Voice 37: it might be the start of friction and and but that's the friction that i think we have to engage

[0:36:26] Voice 37: with i would say it'd be some form of symposium you know based on this document i think it's a

[0:36:31] Voice 37: a great start it's honest and that's what it needs to be and and let's have that conversation

[0:36:36] Voice 37: and if we can come to a shared vision out of that great if we're one step along great or if at least

[0:36:43] Voice 37: we've just made contact and we understand each other's worldviews are very different and there's

[0:36:49] Voice 37: a lot to be done here then that's also great so i i think i'm suggesting sort of um well just that

[0:36:56] Voice 37: that we actually convene some form of symposium

[0:36:58] Voice 37: around this vision statement.

[0:37:03] Voice 37: And I recognize there are issues around representation

[0:37:05] Voice 37: and who speaks for whom, but let's do it.

[0:37:08] Voice 37: You know, the enemy of the good is the perfect in this case.

[0:37:12] Voice 37: It's not going to be perfect.

[0:37:13] Voice 37: It's not going to be a perfect example

[0:37:14] Voice 37: of representative representation,

[0:37:16] Voice 37: but I think it's the trust doing the hard work

[0:37:19] Voice 37: in the spotlight of community

[0:37:21] Voice 37: where everyone's open to the conversation.

[0:37:23] Voice 37: and um yeah and i think ben for for sort of characterizing it that way i mean i think i've

[0:37:29] Voice 37: just elaborated those ideas because i missed the session but i think you guys did great work i mean

[0:37:34] Voice 37: the content here is excellent i'm not critiquing the content it's just i think we need a broader

[0:37:39] Voice 37: reference and that can only come from the voices around the table of first nations indigenous

[0:37:45] Voice 37: Indigenous people now.

[0:37:46] Voice 26: Thank you. Trustee Falk.

[0:37:54] Voice 26: Thank you.

[0:37:56] Voice 10: Yeah, I think

[0:37:59] Voice 10: a vision statement is very important and I like

[0:38:04] Voice 10: the aspects of it that I think are important

[0:38:06] Voice 10: is the work that we have to do when we try to come up with a vision statement.

[0:38:11] Voice 10: And so this very process that we're going through right now I think is very important for us.

[0:38:16] Voice 10: We're doing, this is what I consider very good work

[0:38:19] Voice 10: and important work, that we're thinking about all these issues, all the implications,

[0:38:26] Voice 10: all the stakeholders, well, hopefully all the stakeholders.

[0:38:33] Voice 10: And so, yes, I just wanted to say that first. And then I think a vision statement

[0:38:40] Voice 10: is something that we have to own, like whoever has a vision has to own the vision. So

[0:38:47] Voice 10: So if it's the island's trust vision, then it's the island's trust that needs to own it.

[0:38:52] Voice 10: And so we need to kind of be clear on that, like whose vision is this?

[0:38:58] Voice 10: And then also vision statements are evergreen.

[0:39:05] Voice 10: So today this is our vision and tomorrow we can change the vision.

[0:39:09] Voice 10: And so I think there's more leeway to just keep that in mind when we're thinking about a draft, vision statement, that sort of thing.

[0:39:20] Voice 10: I think it's good to probably leave this open for a while, but at some point, not too, too far in the future, we should own it.

[0:39:29] Voice 10: And I don't think we can own it until we say this is our vision statement.

[0:39:33] Voice 10: We can't say we're thinking about this, you know, if we own it.

[0:39:37] Voice 10: To me, the moment we own it is the moment we say this is the vision for today.

[0:39:46] Voice 10: When it comes to getting feedback on the vision from First Nations, I don't like the segregation in that way.

[0:40:01] Voice 10: Because we haven't asked or we don't have a process in place for all of the diverse communities that live on our islands to comment on our vision statement.

[0:40:13] Voice 10: So why don't we just put it out to all the communities, you know, all of our stakeholders?

[0:40:20] Voice 10: Why should we give it out to one select group?

[0:40:24] Voice 10: That, to me, would be a bit insulting, actually, if I was part of that group, because it's a diverse group.

[0:40:32] Voice 10: so why pick out one of them so i think we should put it out there and say uh if we can reach that

[0:40:38] Voice 10: you know maybe today or some other time say this is our uh this is what we're thinking this is the

[0:40:44] Voice 10: one that we're landed on for the moment uh we're not going to make it put it you know we're not

[0:40:48] Voice 10: going to say it's done yet because we haven't consulted with you all and say please give us

[0:40:54] Voice 10: feedback uh you know does this work for you is this is this the island that you want to live on

[0:41:00] Voice 10: that's managed in this way with this vision? Does that work for all of you? And then take all that

[0:41:06] Voice 10: feedback, come back again and say, let's make it, let's own it. If we can incorporate the feedback

[0:41:15] Voice 10: if it needs to be, or if the feedback is, well, that's great. We love it. Then great. Then we can

[0:41:21] Voice 10: on it at that point um having said all of that i really favor uh four because the while on a journey

[0:41:33] Voice 10: to me says what i've just said it says the important part is what we're talking about here

[0:41:41] Voice 10: the journey that this puts us on so while we're on this journey uh that introduction to the to it

[0:41:48] Voice 10: to me really really works as opposed to the number one which I don't have any huge problem

[0:41:54] Voice 10: with that either but you know being at the heart of this work it's seems almost overstated a little

[0:42:01] Voice 10: bit again separating one part of the community out

[0:42:06] Voice 26: thank you CEO you wanting to bounce in

[0:42:13] Voice 26: and I'll kick trustee fast.

[0:42:19] Voice 26: Thank you.

[0:42:19] Voice 26: Good morning, everybody.

[0:42:21] Trustee Fast: Great discussion.

[0:42:22] Trustee Fast: I just, I could go with the original,

[0:42:27] Trustee Fast: I could go with number four.

[0:42:29] Trustee Fast: I think I have respect for the process

[0:42:34] Trustee Fast: that we went through at the last trust council

[0:42:36] Trustee Fast: and the visioning statement that came out of that process.

[0:42:41] Trustee Fast: I want to think about, are we going to let one sentence that we came out of that workshop with possibly postpone the corporate plan, possibly postpone the trust policy statement work, or take the place of some of that, which I think is more important?

[0:43:08] Trustee Fast: Could it possibly postpone the relationship building with First Nations that's underway through the trust policy statement work?

[0:43:16] Trustee Fast: I think I hear concerns about let's get things done.

[0:43:22] Trustee Fast: And then I hear about taking things back again to possibly postpone other work that's underway.

[0:43:30] Trustee Fast: Anyway, I think the trust policy statement for me is the big legal meat of the matter.

[0:43:37] Trustee Fast: It's a legal document that the group of nations has begun or is well into providing significant

[0:43:49] Trustee Fast: input on.

[0:43:49] Trustee Fast: That's the important one for me.

[0:43:52] Trustee Fast: More important than this, this is good.

[0:43:57] Trustee Fast: It's important, too.

[0:43:58] Trustee Fast: There's many important things.

[0:44:00] Trustee Fast: But I just think the trust policy statement is where First Nations have showed us that they're interested in their contributing and participating in that process.

[0:44:15] Trustee Fast: I don't want to threaten that.

[0:44:18] Trustee Fast: I don't want to postpone.

[0:44:20] Trustee Fast: I don't want to delay that work.

[0:44:22] Trustee Fast: And I think we could change it later, as some have mentioned, especially when we consult more through the trust policy statement process, and so maybe in a few years.

[0:44:36] Trustee Fast: And I think that's my main thing is let's agree.

[0:44:46] Trustee Fast: We did agree last week or sorry, last trust council.

[0:44:50] Trustee Fast: And let's stand with that or number four and and move on with the important work of the trust and not delay.

[0:44:58] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[0:45:01] Voice 26: I mean, I appreciate your comments, Russ, about, you

[0:45:13] Voice 23: know, option number four.

[0:45:16] Voice 23: kind of um and and lee's comments um there is work being done um in regards to the policy statement

[0:45:23] Voice 23: and that work could reflect on the work we do with the vision statement um there's there's no doubt

[0:45:30] Voice 23: that you know the perception of the people in this room um is genuine when you see a word like

[0:45:41] Voice 23: caring in your vision statement um you have a an idea of what that means right you sitting around

[0:45:50] Voice 23: this room we discuss it and and we know what that what we're trying to say with that a word like

[0:45:56] Voice 23: caring um the problem we run into is this vision statement isn't necessarily just for the people in

[0:46:06] Voice 23: in this room it's for everybody and um it sort of takes me back to um what you would consider

[0:46:15] Voice 23: historical grievances right um when

[0:46:22] Voice 26: i first came to galleon right you have to remember when you

[0:46:28] Voice 26: went on bc ferries if you were an indian you weren't allowed up on the

[0:46:35] Voice 23: upper deck the only

[0:46:37] Voice 23: only place you are allowed is down where

[0:46:39] Voice 26: the dogs were 1972 right that's when the islands trust was

[0:46:46] Voice 26: formed right that's when the when the concept of the islands trust started right i

[0:46:53] Voice 23: mean i i don't

[0:46:54] Voice 23: think if you use that word caring in a vision statement in 1972 that would be reflective of

[0:47:03] Voice 23: of the community as a whole right

[0:47:06] Voice 26: i mean that i think you need to understand that there are

[0:47:15] Voice 26: historical grievances there are there are things that happen for the last 50 years

[0:47:30] Voice 26: where you would look at this all four five of those and you would go you got to be kidding me

[0:47:36] Voice 26: right but i believe that the people in this room are genuine when they put up those words in there

[0:47:46] Voice 26: that they mean them i have to believe that but as susan said if we're on a journey please don't

[0:48:01] Voice 26: decide what the end of the journey is if somebody else is on that journey with you

[0:48:05] Voice 26: All right. I mean, we have to understand that in 1996, in the fall of 1996, I sat in a room with my father-in-law and his daughter and another Penelope

[0:48:30] Voice 23: elder and was told by the trustee at the time that if

[0:48:37] Voice 26: you want to be an Indian, move back to the reserve.

[0:48:39] Voice 26: are so here we are it's 1972 to 1996 right still not that caring right and so i would

[0:48:58] Voice 26: i just would be mindful of what you're trying to achieve here because historical grievances are

[0:49:12] Voice 26: real right

[0:49:15] Voice 23: there's been tremendous work and janine is right we are in the community level

[0:49:23] Voice 23: doing a lot of work i look at the work that janine is doing around the fallow deer and i look at

[0:49:28] Voice 23: you know working with the sartliff nation and i look at what other islands are doing and and we

[0:49:34] Voice 23: are a lot we're moving along i wouldn't say we moved a long ways but we're moving along

[0:49:40] Voice 23: right so just be mindful

[0:49:42] Voice 26: what what this journey is right and you know it's it's it's not about

[0:49:55] Voice 23: But whether we complete something today or we're holding something up or I mean, the work is going to get done.

[0:50:01] Voice 23: The work of reconciliation will get done and hopefully we'll do it in a way that's respectful to those nations.

[0:50:10] Voice 23: And if there's nations that are not where others are at this point, it's incumbent upon us

[0:50:19] Voice 26: to work with them to get them there.

[0:50:24] Voice 26: Right. However long that takes.

[0:50:29] Voice 23: right i think the policy statement is incredibly important because a lot of that work is getting

[0:50:34] Voice 26: done and so yeah i mean i would just be cautious that's all trustee morrison um i don't wish to

[0:50:57] Voice 4: stifle conversation in any way but i do feel strongly i think given i think

[0:51:04] Voice 4: yeah i do feel strongly about a process because um so i'm i'm open to putting a motion on the

[0:51:15] Voice 4: table at the will of council about where to which direction to go um because um as many of you know

[0:51:22] Voice 4: i do most of my work uh in collaboration with justice organizations indigenous organizations

[0:51:27] Voice 4: organizations for people of color and a mantra in that community is nothing for us without us

[0:51:34] Voice 4: and so really understanding what that means is part of what jacincton who's the same elder called

[0:51:43] Voice 4: reconciliation so our actions speak to our intentions so we can have the best intentions

[0:51:51] Voice 4: in this room of like trying to think and do but unless our actions reflect the principles that

[0:51:57] Voice 4: we're trying to move forward then we aren't actually really embodying reconciliation truly

[0:52:02] Voice 4: so from that perspective i i actually um think that we are also what we're struggling with here

[0:52:11] Voice 4: i think is an issue that's super well documented and it's known as the urgency dilemma right and

[0:52:18] Voice 4: so like how do we who are steeped in our own culture of like getting things done and moving

[0:52:24] Voice 4: forward slow down enough to be in right relationship and in right process with partners

[0:52:30] Voice 4: who have different goals, have different ways of being and doing.

[0:52:34] Voice 4: And so I think that we have to really question,

[0:52:41] Voice 4: why is it so urgent for us to get the vision statement today?

[0:52:45] Voice 4: I understand there's corporate planning processes.

[0:52:47] Voice 4: Those are all structural problems that we are trying to work through

[0:52:50] Voice 4: in our reconciliation process.

[0:52:51] Voice 4: It is, frankly.

[0:52:53] Voice 4: And in 2019 of March was when the reconciliation motion was passed,

[0:52:59] Voice 4: you know, by this council.

[0:53:00] Voice 4: I was proud to be in that room.

[0:53:02] Voice 4: Okay.

[0:53:04] Voice 4: 2019 is four years, almost five years ago now.

[0:53:09] Voice 4: Another three or six months is not going to kill us.

[0:53:12] Voice 4: Okay.

[0:53:13] Voice 4: And so, and it's going to do a lot better if we do the process right.

[0:53:18] Voice 4: So I will not put the motion right now.

[0:53:21] Voice 4: I've given it to the emotions thing, but I would like to hear if there's any other

[0:53:25] Voice 4: other like differences to that but I would be happy to put a motion to move to postpone not

[0:53:31] Voice 4: not the motion that's in number three at the bottom here but to postpone based on the feedback

[0:53:37] Voice 4: from the trust policy statement so

[0:53:40] Voice 6: whenever we're finished our conversation trustee hunter

[0:53:44] Voice 25: thank

[0:53:46] Voice 14: you I don't really know where to begin but I grew up on fetus island

[0:53:54] Voice 14: Cooper Island is right next door.

[0:53:56] Voice 14: We had a really great relationship with the natives.

[0:54:01] Voice 14: We would go over there in our high school years and play basketball every Friday night.

[0:54:07] Voice 14: They'd come over to see this in the summertime and play baseball, softball.

[0:54:13] Voice 14: And then this was while the Cooper Island Residential School was still in operation.

[0:54:19] Voice 14: We had no idea what was going on there.

[0:54:22] Voice 14: It was just part of our growing up.

[0:54:26] Voice 14: Then in the 70s, something changed.

[0:54:32] Voice 14: I can't quite put my finger on it, but the relationship got strained.

[0:54:37] Voice 14: And then I had the privilege of working with an adjudicator on the residential school abuse cases for three years.

[0:54:49] Voice 14: And that was an eye opener.

[0:54:51] Voice 14: governor a very sad tragic time and i i read things that i didn't want to read and um

[0:55:05] Voice 14: what but there's nothing we can do about that now we can say we're sorry till the cows come home

[0:55:11] Voice 14: that was then this is now we have to find a way we're not we we can apologize for that

[0:55:20] Voice 14: but how

[0:55:21] Voice 26: do we move forward well we're recognizing that something was wrong

[0:55:30] Voice 26: i think this statement here is not

[0:55:34] Voice 14: excluding any first nation and we've been talking about

[0:55:41] Voice 14: this since well i was elected first in 2014 in 2016 we were talking but we had a long talk about

[0:55:48] Voice 14: it now in 2023 we have a statement that's concise it has everything that we believe in so why can't

[0:56:01] Voice 14: we just adopt it and get on with it i mean are

[0:56:06] Voice 26: we gonna what are we postponing what are we afraid of

[0:56:15] Voice 26: thank you trustee harris thanks so listening to trustee maberly speak about how things have

[0:56:31] Voice 15: been

[0:56:32] Voice 15: um with first nations and uh and trust for many decades there and how they progressed and or

[0:56:42] Voice 15: haven't progressed um it brings me to a incident in the fulford valley last term regarding the cdf

[0:56:52] Voice 15: and associated ecosystems project possibly it was a policy statement draft um there was a public

[0:57:01] Voice 15: engagement and we had staff a member of the staff saying well the local first nations

[0:57:07] Voice 15: on salt spring aren't real first nations so it's like we really to me that's we're still

[0:57:15] Voice 15: in some major uh i don't know what the word would be um but things need to change um and i just i

[0:57:26] Voice 15: thought i just heard that the policy statement draft is already out to first nations which

[0:57:32] Voice 15: which boggles my mind as trustees we haven't seen yet.

[0:57:37] Voice 15: Maybe it's not the case, but, you know,

[0:57:40] Voice 15: the last policy statement draft, as far as reconciliation goes,

[0:57:46] Voice 15: was nowhere near, you know, and Salt Spring anyways,

[0:57:51] Voice 15: and I'm sure it's the case on a couple other islands,

[0:57:54] Voice 15: that draft alienated local Indigenous to no end

[0:57:58] Voice 15: and drastically threatened their traditional livelihoods so i really hope that this new policy

[0:58:08] Voice 15: statement draft if it is out to first nations already before trustees have seen it then

[0:58:12] Voice 15: i hope that's not the case um if it is i hope it's uh drastically different from the last policy

[0:58:20] Voice 15: statement

[0:58:21] Voice 26: draft. Thank you. That's it for speakers. Oh, Christy Evans.

[0:58:32] Trustee Evans: Thanks. I just have a few comments to make. Listening to everybody, I really appreciate

[0:58:40] Trustee Evans: everybody's comments on this. I just want to also say a vision statement is not backwards looking.

[0:58:49] Trustee Evans: thinking it's not to correct what's happened in the past so much as it is to say 50 years from

[0:58:58] Trustee Evans: now 100 years from now how do we see ourselves what are we aspiring to reach and I still really

[0:59:07] Trustee Evans: like the original wording I don't mind adding on like with number four on a journey of reconciliation

[0:59:13] Trustee Evans: because it's still future looking however I'm hoping in 50 years from now I'm actually hoping

[0:59:18] Trustee Evans: thing in 20 years from now we are reconciled which will make this vision statement that we're that

[0:59:26] Trustee Evans: we're looking at with these additional words on moot so i would rather look at a vision statement

[0:59:35] Trustee Evans: for the aspiration of landing in a place of reconciliation um what i would like to

[0:59:45] Trustee Evans: to see happen today is that this vision statement that we're looking at and considering, it

[0:59:53] Trustee Evans: will go back to First Nations as part of the trust policy statement work.

[1:00:00] Trustee Evans: Like the chair said, it is intended to go onto a lot of documents.

[1:00:03] Trustee Evans: This will all go to First Nations for input and possible change.

[1:00:08] Trustee Evans: And once we get that input and we understand the positions, then we can revisit and finesse it and land there.

[1:00:16] Trustee Evans: We're not necessarily saying that this is the end point today, but it's a beginning point.

[1:00:22] Trustee Evans: point. So I would like, like I said, I would like us to see us adopt a draft version of this for

[1:00:29] Trustee Evans: right now until we get the trust policy statement revisions and input back from First Nations. We

[1:00:37] Trustee Evans: can look at it again, finesse it so that we feel that we might have accomplished and taken into

[1:00:44] Trustee Evans: account First Nations views and inputs on it. But waiting for the trust policy statement to come to

[1:00:51] Trustee Evans: its conclusion that's into next term and that will affect how we do our strategy we don't have

[1:01:00] Trustee Evans: a vision how we're going to how we're going to do our strategies it will affect our planning process

[1:01:05] Trustee Evans: it will hobble us and i'd like to caution that while we're trying to balance our position and

[1:01:15] Trustee Evans: and our concern for making sure

[1:01:21] Trustee Evans: that we do follow good process.

[1:01:23] Trustee Evans: I think the process is still there,

[1:01:26] Trustee Evans: but I don't think it precludes us from moving forward.

[1:01:30] Trustee Evans: If we don't move forward,

[1:01:32] Trustee Evans: then we're going to be where we've been

[1:01:33] Trustee Evans: for the past 50 years without a vision statement.

[1:01:36] Voice 26: Thank you.

[1:01:38] Voice 26: Trustee Borswick.

[1:01:42] Voice 26: Yeah, I wanna thank

[1:01:44] Trustee Borthwick: the other trustees for all their input.

[1:01:46] Trustee Borthwick: There's a lot of, I think, really important

[1:01:48] Trustee Borthwick: and really heartfelt stuff that has been said and I think it's it's important dialogue um there's

[1:01:55] Trustee Borthwick: uh I think I think that yeah the work we're doing on reconciliation right now is is unsatisfactory

[1:02:04] Trustee Borthwick: we need to have genuine uh dialogue with leaders of communities with which we coexist um we have

[1:02:11] Trustee Borthwick: been chosen to speak with the voices of our communities um they have been chosen to speak

[1:02:15] Trustee Borthwick: for the voices of their communities the the respectful and genuine uh relationship between

[1:02:21] Trustee Borthwick: groups of leaders is to is to meet in dialogue and speak frankly with one another and have that

[1:02:26] Trustee Borthwick: conversation and work on things together if we're if we're working to maintain these areas and

[1:02:31] Trustee Borthwick: preserve and protect these areas we should do that concert um what i sense around the table right now

[1:02:38] Trustee Borthwick: is is although if you know there's generally there's a there's an appetite to to uh um we we

[1:02:45] Trustee Borthwick: We like a lot of what's in our division statement.

[1:02:48] Trustee Borthwick: We don't have consensus as a group.

[1:02:50] Trustee Borthwick: We're not all happy.

[1:02:52] Trustee Borthwick: And that was, from what I gather, the problem at the last meeting.

[1:02:58] Trustee Borthwick: Until right now, our processes don't involve First Nations on an active and ongoing.

[1:03:07] Trustee Borthwick: We don't have an active dialogue.

[1:03:09] Trustee Borthwick: We don't have, you know, as mentioned in the governor's review, we don't have First Nations

[1:03:13] Trustee Borthwick: representation uh from from the local first nations on on this council um you know those

[1:03:18] Trustee Borthwick: are all elements so if if that's the important next step you know perhaps like i don't know what

[1:03:25] Trustee Borthwick: the operational implications of not adopting a vision statement right now are to my mind we

[1:03:31] Trustee Borthwick: understand what the the requirements we understand what we're working towards we understand that we

[1:03:37] Trustee Borthwick: do want to adopt a vision statement we understand we want to have one that's good we also want to

[1:03:41] Trustee Borthwick: to make sure that our processes and our good practices are are involving all of the communities

[1:03:46] Trustee Borthwick: within our within our jurisdiction um and i think it's important that if we can't like to my mind

[1:03:52] Trustee Borthwick: i like the statement that we have it's very good but if this body is not comfortable

[1:03:59] Trustee Borthwick: adopting it uh in in a way that feels incomplete or non-comprehensive to us

[1:04:05] Trustee Borthwick: then we should leave it and i i don't know that there are direct operational implications for not

[1:04:12] Trustee Borthwick: adopting a vision statement i i don't know that it will impact uh trust policy statement being

[1:04:18] Trustee Borthwick: adopted i think it will inform it's going to be an important component of that but as as it's been

[1:04:24] Trustee Borthwick: said too this is a living statement we can change this at any time if we if the vision needs to

[1:04:29] Trustee Borthwick: change we can change it um i don't think there's any harm if we leave this for now but i i mean for

[1:04:35] Trustee Borthwick: For me, Tracy Patrick likes to talk about lingering in project definition phase and in consideration and, you know, thinking about things carefully.

[1:04:48] Trustee Borthwick: And I think that's really important, but that's only really important as long as resolution and actually getting something done is possible.

[1:04:58] Trustee Borthwick: And right now, around this table this morning, I don't feel that we could enthusiastically, all of us, adopt this vision statement, because there are some of us who feel that the work is incomplete.

[1:05:11] Trustee Borthwick: I don't feel that the implications of leaving this are going to hinder us in doing this stuff.

[1:05:17] Trustee Borthwick: The trust policy statement is work is already underway.

[1:05:21] Trustee Borthwick: We can come back to this in six months, in a year, and adopt it then.

[1:05:25] Trustee Borthwick: Again, we're not going to forget what we're trying to do as the trust.

[1:05:30] Trustee Borthwick: We all know what we're trying to do.

[1:05:32] Trustee Borthwick: This is a statement of intent that helps guide us and helps remind us.

[1:05:37] Trustee Borthwick: But we all are pretty active in the work right now.

[1:05:40] Trustee Borthwick: And I think that it won't hinder us to not adopt a vision statement until we know that we're ready.

[1:05:46] Trustee Borthwick: Thank you.

[1:05:51] Voice 26: So I might be wrong about this.

[1:05:53] Voice 26: It happens.

[1:05:56] Voice 26: I

[1:05:58] Trustee Luckham: think it's important to keep a conversation alive and advance what we're thinking about.

[1:06:04] Trustee Luckham: And when we come into a conversation to say, as so many of you have said already today, I think, and indeed this piece here, and let's call it a draft, because I don't think it becomes real after we decide we endorse this draft or not today.

[1:06:20] Trustee Luckham: day. In my mind, the moment that it becomes real is when we say, is this the vision statement you

[1:06:27] Trustee Luckham: want to put in the policy statement? After you've reviewed all of the feedback that we will be

[1:06:33] Trustee Luckham: receiving from the nine nations that are engaging with us in a very meaningful way, the conversation

[1:06:41] Trustee Luckham: is not over, it's just begun. But I think it is helpful for others, our community, our staff,

[1:06:48] Trustee Luckham: each other to know that and i'm going to focus on the word caring i think that ben may really has

[1:06:55] Trustee Luckham: emphasized that in many ways what it might mean to this council and i think we have a consensus

[1:07:03] Trustee Luckham: around what that caring might mean but indeed historically so somebody could have used that

[1:07:10] Trustee Luckham: word too then thinking that they were doing the right thing but our lens is different today and

[1:07:16] Trustee Luckham: And our lens today is to include First Nations in our policy statement to guide our work.

[1:07:24] Trustee Luckham: And the vision statement is our vision statement to guide our work with justice and equity for the peoples of this land that have been here since the beginning of time.

[1:07:38] Trustee Luckham: We're newcomers and we're thrust into this.

[1:07:41] Trustee Luckham: We could walk away, too, I suppose.

[1:07:44] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, many would say we should walk away and leave the land with us.

[1:07:48] Trustee Luckham: And OK, but I don't think there's harm in adopting draft language.

[1:07:55] Trustee Luckham: And, you know, I can't help but reflect that simple is always better.

[1:07:59] Trustee Luckham: And many, a number of elders have told me in my time that I've been working with nations

[1:08:04] Trustee Luckham: that is as a leader, it's better to say less.

[1:08:07] Trustee Luckham: And we are leaders and we could say less.

[1:08:10] Trustee Luckham: Yes. And it has to be more than we care about this place and the people that live here.

[1:08:16] Trustee Luckham: And I think that you did all very well in crafting what you did last time.

[1:08:22] Trustee Luckham: I would like to have something that we could consider when the policy statement comes back to us to say, you, you endorsed this draft policy statement.

[1:08:33] Trustee Luckham: Is this what you want to include or vision statement? Is this what you want to include in the policy statement?

[1:08:38] Trustee Luckham: do the values reflected in the policy statement reflect the vision and does the work that we're

[1:08:43] Trustee Luckham: doing uh is it supported by the vision just

[1:08:47] Voice 26: trying to be helpful anybody else just again

[1:08:56] Voice 26: um i'm thinking that um because

[1:08:59] Voice 33: of the way that this institution 50 years ago was set up

[1:09:03] Voice 33: in terms of our representation we're elected within the constraints of of that we haven't

[1:09:11] Voice 33: included um any of the first nations we haven't even we didn't at the time even consider that

[1:09:18] Voice 33: that was uh i doubt that we considered that was a possibility so we've come from different

[1:09:24] Voice 33: experiences and um different backgrounds and i think that at this point in time the 26 of us

[1:09:32] Voice 33: sitting around the table that have been elected within the constraints of this organization

[1:09:37] Voice 33: organization um we're aspiring and the vision statement is something that is both aspirational

[1:09:44] Voice 33: and inspirational that to um bring that forward and the whole idea of reconciliation and and

[1:09:52] Voice 33: figuring out how to change drastically and and dramatically hopefully the where we started 50

[1:10:00] Voice 33: years ago um so i think today um if we can come up with anything that and i prefer number three

[1:10:10] Voice 33: the aspirational part of it um i think if we can come up with a statement we're as open to change

[1:10:16] Voice 33: it in terms of the feedback that we get at any point um but i think this helps us explain today

[1:10:22] Voice 33: who we are and what we want and where we want to go with it so um i wouldn't postpone it i would

[1:10:30] Voice 33: have something on paper and deal with whatever feedback that we get and grow and continue to

[1:10:38] Voice 33: grow.

[1:10:42] Voice 25: We have Trustee Gavreau and then Director Frater.

[1:10:47] Voice 27: Thank you. What a great conversation I'm

[1:10:50] Voice 27: hearing here. We're doing some really hard work. It's a hard conversation to have. It's hard. Are

[1:10:58] Voice 27: we trying to solve reconciliation with the vision statement? I don't think that's possible and I

[1:11:02] Voice 27: I don't think we can do it in 20 years.

[1:11:03] Voice 27: I think it's a long-term commitment.

[1:11:06] Voice 27: When I read these, number three really sticks out to me,

[1:11:10] Voice 27: aspiring to lead in reconciliation.

[1:11:13] Voice 27: I think that's good in a vision statement

[1:11:15] Voice 27: because that's what we've been doing, I think.

[1:11:18] Voice 27: I do believe that the trust policy statement

[1:11:21] Voice 27: is going to be the real meat in the sandwich here as well.

[1:11:25] Voice 27: And this can work in parallel.

[1:11:28] Voice 27: So I don't have any issues with adopting,

[1:11:31] Voice 27: opting on a contingent sense um maybe item number three today i would be fine with that or even

[1:11:37] Voice 27: number four two which is beautiful one they're all great they all have their merits and we can't

[1:11:42] Voice 27: change them later we we do this we commit to something today we put it out there some will

[1:11:49] Voice 27: like it some won't and

[1:11:51] Voice 26: we work from there but we move forward thank you okay to director freder

[1:11:58] Voice 26: please.

[1:12:00] Voice 40: Thank you. Just a couple of reflections based on what I've heard. I wanted to just

[1:12:06] Voice 40: mention the idea of referring it out on its own as a standalone vision to both communities and

[1:12:11] Voice 40: nations. That's a resource intensive approach. I just want to make you aware of that. We would

[1:12:15] Voice 40: need to be resourced and postpone other work to support that. So one of my recommendations to you

[1:12:21] Voice 40: is that you could fold this into the policy statement and the planned engagement processes

[1:12:25] Voice 40: that you have and then it could be considered as a totality as part of the policy statement and

[1:12:32] Voice 40: it's already a resourced engagement program that you have planned and certainly we could with the

[1:12:36] Voice 40: nine nations that we're working with right now that are taking a look at the draft and preparing

[1:12:39] Voice 40: their comments so you can receive their comments when you receive the draft you could certainly

[1:12:45] Voice 40: ask us to provide it to those nations now to advise them this is the plan that you're going

[1:12:50] Voice 40: on if you wish to look at something today. In addition I just wanted to let you all know

[1:12:54] Voice 40: So depending on what path you take, I certainly encourage all of you to go read the land use and marine use plans of all the nations that you live within their territories, because that will give you a sense, too, of their visions for their territory and give you a sense of the values that they're expressing there in aligned with their visions and guiding principles.

[1:13:12] Voice 40: So I hope that's helpful and I'm available for questions if you have any.

[1:13:19] Voice 11: So there's an open

[1:13:20] Trustee Luckham: request for questions for the Director of Trust Area Services.

[1:13:24] Trustee Luckham: services. Anybody have any questions or any

[1:13:27] Voice 26: thoughts or motions? I can I can put a motion

[1:13:38] Voice 26: forward.

[1:13:40] Trustee Luckham: If you feel confident, please. I

[1:13:42] Trustee Evans: don't feel confident. Okay.

[1:13:48] Trustee Luckham: We have to test the water

[1:13:49] Trustee Luckham: somewhere.

[1:13:50] Trustee Evans: Yes. I okay. So I move that trust council.

[1:13:54] Trustee Luckham: I'm just just would just respect the

[1:13:58] Trustee Luckham: process actually we don't have a verbalized request for motions um i certainly a motion

[1:14:03] Trustee Luckham: was forwarded to oh okay well yeah somebody has to say it so

[1:14:08] Trustee Luckham: that's what i

[1:14:08] Voice 29: was just saying and

[1:14:09] Trustee Luckham: you and trustee evans has the floor trustee morrison do you feel that so

[1:14:14] Voice 4: sorry i did i said

[1:14:16] Voice 4: when i feel that when the discussion's ready

[1:14:18] Voice 5: i'm ready to put a motion

[1:14:19] Voice 5: on the table that's all i

[1:14:20] Voice 5: said again

[1:14:29] Trustee Luckham: right so trustee heavens has the floor and if a motion isn't forthcoming we'll go to

[1:14:36] Trustee Luckham: to raise your hand, to speak, to raise a motion.

[1:14:39] Trustee Evans: Okay.

[1:14:39] Trustee Evans: So I move that trust council,

[1:14:45] Trustee Evans: unfortunately the language is gone now,

[1:14:47] Trustee Evans: so I can't read it.

[1:14:49] Voice 26: Thank you.

[1:14:51] Trustee Evans: So I move that trust council adopt,

[1:14:56] Trustee Evans: I'm just gonna say option number four,

[1:14:57] Trustee Evans: so you can just copy it,

[1:15:03] Trustee Evans: and forward to First Nations currently

[1:15:06] Trustee Evans: currently reviewing the Trust Policy Statement for their input as part of the Trust Policy

[1:15:15] Trustee Evans: Statement work.

[1:15:17] Trustee Luckham: Okay, let's see how Emily is doing there. We'll get that up on the screen.

[1:15:22] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Trustee Evans.

[1:15:25] Voice 26: Let's get the motion up on the screen and then we'll call for a second.

[1:15:48] Voice 26: Thank you, Emily. Is that the intention of

[1:15:52] Trustee Luckham: your motion, Trustee Evans?

[1:15:54] Trustee Evans: Yes, could we just swap,

[1:15:57] Trustee Evans: can we copy and paste option number four and put the wording in there yeah right I

[1:16:04] Trustee Evans: just didn't I

[1:16:04] Trustee Evans: just didn't want

[1:16:04] Voice 26: to read all of that out thank you okay thank you so the formatting doesn't have

[1:16:27] Trustee Luckham: to be perfect but that embraces your intention yes so I'm going to call for a second I'll

[1:16:36] Trustee Luckham: acknowledge Alex Allen wanted to second it earlier and so if you want to second it then

[1:16:40] Trustee Luckham: that seconded so um you wish to speak to your motion i think

[1:16:48] Trustee Evans: this uh moves us forward um it

[1:16:52] Trustee Evans: also gives first nations early insight into what we're considering and hopefully with the work that

[1:16:59] Trustee Evans: they're already undertaking um the understanding that this that uh um a vision statement will be

[1:17:07] Trustee Evans: included in the trust policy statement that uh if there is if there is um any any input that this

[1:17:16] Trustee Evans: would be able to come forward now right

[1:17:19] Trustee Luckham: right thank you so discussion on the motion on the floor

[1:17:23] Trustee Luckham: um and i'm gonna get the

[1:17:25] Voice 25: speaker's list okay we'll start with trustee graham

[1:17:29] Voice 12: i'll speak in favor of

[1:17:31] Voice 12: the motion i think this really um in my mind encapsulates all that i've heard it moves us

[1:17:36] Voice 12: forward and uh i'm i'm

[1:17:39] Voice 26: comfortable thank you trustee falk uh just just uh a word is missing

[1:17:47] Voice 26: to

[1:17:48] Voice 10: me uh the trust council dot option vision option just the word vision

[1:17:54] Voice 26: so we know what we're

[1:17:55] Voice 26: talking about but uh and i'm in support of it is that okay remover although council owns the motion

[1:18:07] Voice 26: now thank you so we'll add the word vision okay trustee evans you're

[1:18:15] Voice 25: also the trustee gates

[1:18:16] Voice 25: I

[1:18:18] Voice 20: support this motion. It is forward thinking, it is broad minded, and it is open hearted. And we are elected to make decisions to help us move forward. And I think this does that for us.

[1:18:36] Voice 26: Trustee Elliott.

[1:18:37] Voice 26: it um thank you i concur with

[1:18:42] Voice 29: uh trustee falk it was just the missing word adopts

[1:18:46] Voice 29: as

[1:18:47] Voice 11: its

[1:18:47] Voice 29: vision option number four or adopt vision it just this looks awkward but um i support the

[1:18:54] Voice 29: motion so

[1:18:56] Voice 26: trustee harris at this point i'm having a a

[1:19:03] Voice 15: real difficult time with the fact the policy

[1:19:07] Voice 15: statement draft is out to First Nations before we've seen it so I can't support this at this

[1:19:14] Voice 15: point I without knowing what the policy statement draft is saying I don't want to come across

[1:19:21] Voice 15: you know or or possibly look hypocritical by um you know being in favor of this while the policy

[1:19:33] Voice 15: statement draft could say something something drastically different so at this point I'm not

[1:19:37] Voice 15: in favor of this trustee

[1:19:39] Voice 26: um i

[1:19:42] Trustee Borthwick: just wanted this is just a very minor thing uh and and i'd be

[1:19:47] Trustee Borthwick: particular but the uh and it's kind of come in the various options it kind of came and went

[1:19:52] Trustee Borthwick: um but i would love to see an oxford comma after diverse uh but that's purely just that's that's

[1:20:00] Voice 26: It's just grammar to the

[1:20:10] Voice 5: point of order on process can, can we have a statement of agree

[1:20:12] Voice 5: or disagree on.

[1:20:16] Voice 26: Sorry, yes,

[1:20:17] Trustee Borthwick: no, I absolutely support the motion.

[1:20:20] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, everyone.

[1:20:22] Trustee Luckham: I asked to have my self put on the speaker's list.

[1:20:25] Trustee Luckham: I'm in support of this motion, and I completely respect and understand all of the points of

[1:20:31] Trustee Luckham: view that have been had, I think many of you know equity and justice for First Nations

[1:20:36] Trustee Luckham: is paramount in my life for a very long time.

[1:20:39] Trustee Luckham: I want to thank the mover and council

[1:20:42] Trustee Luckham: for supporting moving and seconding this,

[1:20:44] Trustee Luckham: and we'll have a decision here shortly.

[1:20:48] Trustee Luckham: Because as chair of Islands Trust,

[1:20:51] Trustee Luckham: in those First Nations conversations I have,

[1:20:54] Trustee Luckham: when somebody asks me, well, what's your vision?

[1:20:58] Trustee Luckham: This is a tool that I can say, well, we don't have a vision,

[1:21:01] Trustee Luckham: but we have a draft that we've adopted that we're working with

[1:21:03] Trustee Luckham: and that we've indeed passed it on.

[1:21:06] Trustee Luckham: to those nations that have engaged with us

[1:21:08] Trustee Luckham: for their point of view.

[1:21:10] Trustee Luckham: And I think that that bridges the gap

[1:21:13] Trustee Luckham: that our intention every step of the way

[1:21:17] Trustee Luckham: is to engage where we can with the nations.

[1:21:19] Trustee Luckham: So I really appreciate the opportunity to do that.

[1:21:24] Trustee Luckham: Any other speakers?

[1:21:26] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Flock?

[1:21:29] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, you

[1:21:30] Voice 10: just used the word draft

[1:21:31] Voice 10: and that's not in the language there.

[1:21:33] Voice 10: I'm just wanting to make sure we're clear.

[1:21:35] Trustee Luckham: Oh yeah, it's not in there,

[1:21:38] Trustee Luckham: but and yeah so

[1:21:40] Voice 10: is that the understanding that it is a draft because then we could put the word

[1:21:43] Voice 10: there but that changes it a little bit i just

[1:21:45] Voice 10: need to be on the same page

[1:21:46] Trustee Luckham: that was a misuse on my

[1:21:48] Trustee Luckham: part however i think that we generally accept this opportunity to change this in the future

[1:21:55] Trustee Luckham: particularly when we receive feedback from the nations and we've actually seen the policy

[1:22:00] Trustee Luckham: statement

[1:22:00] Voice 11: so we're going with the idea it's evergreen but it's not a draft it's we're adopting

[1:22:06] Voice 11: this is a mark in time yeah 50

[1:22:08] Voice 37: mil uh thank you yeah just a process question about the wording

[1:22:14] Voice 37: um of the reference to the trust policy statement and you know we could sit here and say oh yeah

[1:22:21] Voice 37: but i saw how the policy statement hit the iceberg last time and just to be quiet about this this was

[1:22:28] Voice 37: we need to understand what trustee harris pointed out there i think because we're at risk of having

[1:22:35] Voice 37: extensive consultation with First Nations that then we implicitly reject

[1:22:39] Voice 37: because we don't agree with the wording.

[1:22:42] Voice 37: So the question is, that may not be the case, so it's a process question,

[1:22:46] Voice 37: which committee is dealing with this and have the committee members seen a draft?

[1:22:54] Voice 26: CAO Hatshepsut, thank you.

[1:22:59] Voice 26: Five times we've told you how this process is underway

[1:23:04] Voice 34: and the decision-making over the last two or three years.

[1:23:08] Voice 34: So I'll generally go over it one more time with the support of Claire Frater.

[1:23:12] Voice 34: But I'm just saying this is daylighted.

[1:23:15] Voice 34: There should not be surprise here on the process that we're underway.

[1:23:19] Voice 34: Trust Council indicated 30 amendments to the draft trust policy statement.

[1:23:28] Voice 34: Those amendments were made.

[1:23:30] Voice 34: They also said refer these improvements to First Nations for their feedback

[1:23:35] Voice 34: back and make a promise that you will do that in that sequence. We have done that. We are waiting

[1:23:45] Voice 34: for those responses. Those responses come back to you for your consideration. You will then amend

[1:23:52] Voice 34: it or not. It would then return to nations as a part of a full referral process. There has been

[1:24:00] Voice 34: no around the way or fragmented process that's been undertaken in the absence of trust council

[1:24:09] Voice 34: direction i'm in i'm of the belief that the nations are appreciative of getting this document

[1:24:19] Voice 34: in this way and that they put substantial time into it and you're going to find out what they

[1:24:24] Voice 34: think of it and you will pass nothing until you're satisfied as well that i believe is the process

[1:24:31] Voice 34: that I'll stand behind that's been provided to this Trust Programs Committee a number of times,

[1:24:38] Voice 34: and you have been reported to a number of times. With respect, I just want to clear up that process.

[1:24:43] Voice 34: That's where we're at.

[1:24:45] Trustee Luckham: Sure. I'd just like to add a specific answer, and correct me if I'm wrong,

[1:24:49] Trustee Luckham: CAO. The policy statement is the responsibility of Executive Committee. The Executive Committee

[1:24:55] Trustee Luckham: committee had decided two terms ago, probably, to commit to working with Trust Policy Committee

[1:25:03] Trustee Luckham: to advance this work. And indeed, the Trust Policy Committee has carried the weight on that.

[1:25:12] Trustee Luckham: And so that's who is responsible for advancing this. And as the CEO has said, it's now in the

[1:25:19] Trustee Luckham: hands of the nations to provide feedback.

[1:25:22] Voice 25: Trustee Getty, you previously had your hand

[1:25:25] Voice 25: And for the motion, did you have anything you wanted to add?

[1:25:29] Voice 25: Okay, so it's over to Trustee Bernardo.

[1:25:32] Voice 25: It's on the motion.

[1:25:34] Trustee Bernardo: Yes, I'm speaking up to oppose the motion.

[1:25:39] Trustee Bernardo: For a pretty simple reason, the effect of this motion would be to adopt a vision statement

[1:25:49] Trustee Bernardo: without having actually consulted at all with First Nations.

[1:25:54] Trustee Bernardo: Instead, the idea is that we would roll it into the trust policy statement consultation.

[1:26:02] Trustee Bernardo: Well, let's think that through.

[1:26:04] Trustee Bernardo: What that means is we're going to adopt this language as our vision statement.

[1:26:10] Trustee Bernardo: And then in the consultation process, we're going to say, this is what we did.

[1:26:16] Trustee Bernardo: Got anything to say about it?

[1:26:20] Trustee Bernardo: That's what it works out to.

[1:26:22] Trustee Bernardo: Is that a consultation?

[1:26:24] Trustee Bernardo: Is that inclusive?

[1:26:25] Trustee Bernardo: inclusive, is that hearing people as to what they might have to say? I think it does make sense to

[1:26:31] Trustee Bernardo: roll the vision statement deliberative process into the trust policy consultation process.

[1:26:40] Trustee Bernardo: But just as we have not gone to First Nations and dropped a big policy statement on their laps and

[1:26:46] Trustee Bernardo: have said, well, this is it. What do you guys think? This is what we're going to do. No,

[1:26:54] Trustee Bernardo: no we're not doing that we're getting input we're trying to understand things that we haven't that

[1:27:00] Trustee Bernardo: haven't occurred to us that's why we're consulting with people but we won't do that with a vision

[1:27:06] Trustee Bernardo: statement uh that apart from everything else it's a little weird uh that that we'd have this

[1:27:12] Trustee Bernardo: disconnect but the fundamental problem here it seems to me is if we adopt this and we actually

[1:27:20] Trustee Bernardo: to flat out adopt this vision statement

[1:27:23] Trustee Bernardo: without any consultation.

[1:27:28] Trustee Bernardo: It's a little too much like

[1:27:31] Trustee Bernardo: what the experience of First Nations have been

[1:27:34] Trustee Bernardo: from the beginning of their experience

[1:27:38] Trustee Bernardo: with the newcomers.

[1:27:40] Trustee Bernardo: And I thought we were trying to change that.

[1:27:43] Voice 25: Thank you.

[1:27:44] Voice 25: Okay, so we're at ten o'clock.

[1:27:45] Voice 25: We have two more speakers.

[1:27:47] Voice 26: We have Trustee Volk.

[1:27:52] Voice 26: Yeah, maybe I'm out of place here,

[1:27:55] Voice 10: but the CAO mentioned that the process, you know, the referral, and we're well aware of that. But

[1:28:05] Voice 10: what my question is, and I asked this before, I believe, does the First Nations know that this

[1:28:11] Voice 10: trust council has not seen the trust policy draft before they did, before they got it? And I think

[1:28:25] Voice 10: to me if I were them. If I was asked to consult on something that the group that I'm consulting

[1:28:31] Voice 10: for, you know, if the group itself hasn't seen the revisions, the draft, I wouldn't want to

[1:28:37] Voice 10: comment on that because when it comes back to us and we see it and we go, well, that's not what we

[1:28:42] Voice 10: want to say at all, maybe, right? That's potentially the case.

[1:28:46] Trustee Luckham: So that's the potential.

[1:28:48] Trustee Luckham: So CAO or Claire, do you have an answer for that?

[1:28:51] Trustee Luckham: I'm happy

[1:28:55] Voice 40: to respond yes absolutely all the nations are aware that this is a staff draft

[1:28:58] Voice 40: and I would express that they're very appreciative of the opportunity to have their comments provided

[1:29:04] Voice 40: to you with the draft such that when the public reaction happens you have their comments as well

[1:29:10] Voice 40: to consider along with the public reaction you're inevitably going to hear I will also express we're

[1:29:15] Voice 40: We're hearing from some nations that they are appreciative that we're providing the draft, but they're expressing that really they would like to have the project done differently such that they were co-drafting with us.

[1:29:31] Voice 40: And they're understanding that we're in the middle of a multi-year process here and that we're working with existing direction from Trust Council.

[1:29:37] Voice 40: Council, but certainly I think you can expect in the future, both for your official community

[1:29:41] Voice 40: plans and for the policy statement, that the landscape of your relationship is changing

[1:29:45] Voice 40: and nations are really looking to work with you at a very early stage to look at your

[1:29:50] Voice 40: document.

[1:29:51] Voice 40: So yes, nations are fully aware that Council could change the document radically.

[1:29:54] Voice 40: We've been very clear about that, but I think they would like to have your consideration

[1:29:58] Voice 40: of what you want to do with the document.

[1:30:00] Voice 40: be informed by their comments i hope that's helpful yeah

[1:30:06] Voice 26: um you're called you know i made

[1:30:09] Trustee Luckham: a commitment to you we would end this conversation at 10 o'clock um i asked you if that was suitable

[1:30:14] Trustee Luckham: we've got a motion on the table certainly there's a diversity of opinion at the table we're not

[1:30:20] Trustee Luckham: going to have a full consensus on this um i would like to call the vote to maintain that commitment

[1:30:26] Trustee Luckham: um and i have one speaker on our on our list that was on the list and another speaker that

[1:30:31] Trustee Luckham: that is the mover of the motion

[1:30:33] Trustee Luckham: that wants to raise their hand.

[1:30:35] Trustee Luckham: So I'm just going to ask you,

[1:30:37] Trustee Luckham: those that have raised their hands,

[1:30:38] Trustee Luckham: do you need to make further comment at this time?

[1:30:43] Voice 26: No, I can just, I could just vote.

[1:30:47] Voice 26: Okay, Trustee Campbell,

[1:30:48] Voice 11: you're seconding the vote

[1:30:49] Voice 11: or you're endorsed?

[1:30:51] Voice 8: No, I'm going to vote against it

[1:30:56] Voice 8: for much of the same reasons that Joe just brought up.

[1:31:01] Voice 8: I'm not comfortable with it not being a draft.

[1:31:06] Voice 8: vision statement and just adopting it so but i that's it i can just vote okay thank you

[1:31:13] Voice 11: um who

[1:31:15] Voice 11: else do we have so trustee morrison and

[1:31:16] Voice 25: finishing off coach yep go ahead all

[1:31:21] Voice 4: right so a couple

[1:31:21] Voice 4: things have been said that i want to add new thinking not repeat myself um so i've heard

[1:31:27] Voice 4: things like forward thinking or move things forward um what are we afraid of though i've

[1:31:33] Voice 4: I've heard those things from you, okay, and in folks that want to move this work forward.

[1:31:38] Voice 4: And I appreciate that you want to move these things forward.

[1:31:42] Voice 4: In my role in my own local LTC, I made some really hard, tough decisions that caused a lot of stress in different ways.

[1:31:51] Voice 4: But I made those decisions because I felt the process wasn't being followed when we looked at reconciliation.

[1:31:57] Voice 4: insulation. So we need to be careful when we're framing things that it's not that the people that

[1:32:03] Voice 4: oppose us don't want to continue the work. We are all deeply invested in this work or that we have

[1:32:09] Voice 4: some stance that we're not trying to, you know, lean into the political turmoil. There's political

[1:32:14] Voice 4: turmoil on many sides of this particular question. Okay. So we'll let those things go. When I think

[1:32:20] Voice 4: about moving forward, I want to move forward in the right way. I don't want to just move forward

[1:32:25] Voice 4: with an object that is a vision statement i want to move forward in the right way so for me moving

[1:32:31] Voice 4: forward means correct process so i'm opposed to this motion just because i feel the process is

[1:32:38] Voice 4: a little bit slower considering some of the feedback in the trust policy statement

[1:32:42] Voice 4: and some other steps thank you so i

[1:32:48] Trustee Evans: just wanted to make a small uh amendment to the wording

[1:32:52] Trustee Evans: based on what we've heard around the table so I would like to add in the word

[1:32:56] Trustee Evans: draft that Trust Council adopt as its draft vision statement okay

[1:33:05] Voice 11: so I'm gonna

[1:33:06] Voice 11: have to take that as an amendment so you are moving that the word draft be added

[1:33:12] Voice 11: yeah draft and statement as

[1:33:15] Trustee Luckham: presented on the screen there so I'm going to want to

[1:33:19] Trustee Luckham: move directly to the vote on this yeah so let's entertain this because I think

[1:33:23] Trustee Luckham: that's helpful and so i'm going to look for a seconder for the motion i've got seeing seconded

[1:33:28] Trustee Luckham: by sue allen fast um i don't think we need to debate this somebody wants to say something

[1:33:34] Trustee Luckham: please do then i'm going to call the vote all those in favor of the amendment

[1:33:38] Voice 26: to the motion

[1:33:46] Trustee Luckham: so the amendment is to add the word draft before vision on the very first line i'll read it out

[1:33:55] Trustee Luckham: that trust council adopt as its draft vision statement,

[1:33:59] Trustee Luckham: option number four,

[1:34:00] Trustee Luckham: and then the rest of the motion remains the same.

[1:34:02] Trustee Luckham: So are we clear?

[1:34:03] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor?

[1:34:06] Voice 26: David, okay.

[1:34:10] Voice 26: Please lower your hands.

[1:34:12] Voice 26: Any

[1:34:13] Trustee Luckham: opposed on the screen?

[1:34:16] Trustee Luckham: One in the room?

[1:34:17] Voice 26: There is one

[1:34:18] Trustee Luckham: on the screen.

[1:34:19] Trustee Luckham: So there's two opposed.

[1:34:20] Trustee Luckham: So that carries, the amendment has carried.

[1:34:22] Trustee Luckham: I'm gonna now go to the vote of the amended motion.

[1:34:26] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor of the amended

[1:34:28] Voice 26: motion?

[1:34:38] Voice 26: 16 in favor.

[1:34:40] Voice 26: And those opposed?

[1:34:47] Voice 26: Eight opposed.

[1:34:48] Voice 26: So that carries.

[1:34:50] Voice 4: Okay.

[1:34:51] Voice 4: Okay.

[1:34:52] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Council.

[1:34:54] Trustee Luckham: I want to move into our break, but a final remark from Deb Morrison.

[1:34:59] Voice 4: I verified this after the March meeting, so I would like my vote recorded as negative.

[1:35:04] Voice 4: Thank you.

[1:35:05] Trustee Luckham: That's fine.

[1:35:06] Trustee Luckham: Anybody else?

[1:35:08] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:35:09] Trustee Luckham: So then let us move into our break.

[1:35:11] Trustee Luckham: we're at 10 10 we'll call it let's come back at if can i ask you just have 10 minutes for your

[1:35:19] Trustee Luckham: break because we're going to cut into the financial conversation quite a bit here with

[1:35:24] Trustee Luckham: catching up with our work from yesterday first and but that should be fairly quick so let's

[1:35:29] Trustee Luckham: return at 20 minutes after 10 thank you everybody well done

[1:35:37] Voice 26: Is it that time yet?

[1:35:44] Voice 26: Oh, yeah.

[1:35:46] Voice 26: Oh, yeah.

[1:35:55] Voice 26: Oh, yes.

[1:36:04] Voice 38: Yeah.

[1:49:59] Voice 26: Okay, I'm going to give you that moment.

[1:50:02] Voice 26: Oops.

[1:50:03] Voice 26: Okay.

[1:50:15] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Toby, for organizing that. And thank you, trustees, for supporting it.

[1:50:20] Trustee Luckham: And absolute thank you from the bottom of our hearts for all the work that the staff do for us.

[1:50:26] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to return us now to our agenda. We've got a big section here coming up with

[1:50:31] Trustee Luckham: administrative services and finance. But I want to pick up some of the items we

[1:50:35] Trustee Luckham: We missed out later.

[1:50:37] Trustee Luckham: And I also want to just conclude the conversation in the business statement because Deb Morrison, I'll just turn it to you.

[1:50:46] Trustee Luckham: What is your request?

[1:50:47] Voice 4: Thank you.

[1:50:48] Voice 4: My request is that the last vote be recorded.

[1:50:52] Voice 4: And it has to do with another issue which happened at the last trust council where we had a press release and there was a consensus kind of language used.

[1:51:02] Voice 4: I need to understand for our own communications.

[1:51:05] Voice 4: um that this was a 16 to 8 vote if i heard correctly um and i want like the 16 to 8 vote

[1:51:12] Voice 4: recorded please right

[1:51:13] Trustee Luckham: so then i'll just take it that the um minutes will record that the vote on

[1:51:18] Trustee Luckham: the last motion was 16 in favor and eight opposed so thank you for bringing that to us deb and that

[1:51:24] Trustee Luckham: opportunity exists where it seems appropriate so thank you for reminding us of that um

[1:51:33] Trustee Luckham: I'm trying to, because there's one additional request associated with business also from

[1:51:38] Trustee Luckham: yesterday, but I'm just going to go through this in order that I've got here. So 4.1.2 was the

[1:51:43] Trustee Luckham: Executive Committee Work Program. That was not included in your package and was circulated by

[1:51:50] Trustee Luckham: email, and you have all had an opportunity to look at that. The intention is that that's a

[1:51:56] Trustee Luckham: a uh consent item and so is there anybody that wishes to ask any questions or speak to the

[1:52:03] Trustee Luckham: executive committee work program report otherwise i will receive it uh for information by general

[1:52:08] Trustee Luckham: consent okay then so be it we'll receive the executive committee work program at 4.1.

[1:52:15] Trustee Luckham: it came by email yeah 4.1.2 by general consent so thank you very much council

[1:52:23] Trustee Luckham: So following through now, yesterday during the governance review, I was not clear on the process of advancing that work.

[1:52:37] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, by lack of an endorsement or not endorsing the governance committee work program, it is endorsed as the work without any changes.

[1:52:49] Trustee Luckham: It will just continue on the path that it has set for itself.

[1:52:53] Trustee Luckham: but there is potential change and again deb morrison i'd like to ask you you raised it

[1:52:58] Trustee Luckham: you would like to provide some direction yes

[1:53:02] Voice 4: thank you this was a procedural issue because

[1:53:04] Voice 4: yesterday during the conversation i raised two things that i asked for changes but there wasn't

[1:53:08] Voice 4: actually we didn't put motions on the table and then that just went by so um david has the motions

[1:53:14] Voice 4: and they were based on the conversation that had gone on in the group so the first motion

[1:53:18] Voice 4: motion is to move the Trust Council Direct Governance Committee to shift the representational

[1:53:22] Voice 4: differences from the not immediate but important category and move it to the urgent and high

[1:53:27] Voice 4: priority category.

[1:53:29] Trustee Luckham: So let's move to add a seconder. Sam Borthwick, thank you. Do you wish to speak to

[1:53:33] Trustee Luckham: the motion?

[1:53:34] Voice 4: For me, this was an issue actually around trying to understand in a timeline that

[1:53:40] Voice 4: works with our current trust term, how we actually are going forward with reconciliation, ironically.

[1:53:48] Trustee Luckham: any discussion not seeing any and online we're clear then i'll call the vote on the motion then

[1:53:56] Trustee Luckham: that's up on the

[1:53:57] Voice 26: screen all those in favor okay and hands down please and any opposed

[1:54:14] Voice 26: six opposed so that carries yes sir

[1:54:29] Voice 11: sorry

[1:54:30] Trustee Bernardo: we raced right away and into this vote uh on this uh without a discussion about it and i

[1:54:37] Trustee Bernardo: I guess I was a little slow, but I don't actually understand what representational differences actually means.

[1:54:47] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Morrison mentioned something about reconciliation,

[1:54:51] Trustee Bernardo: but I'd like some clarity about what those representational differences in this motion actually are intended to capture,

[1:55:00] Trustee Bernardo: because First Nations and Indigenous involvement in our work is one factor,

[1:55:06] Trustee Bernardo: But there's also regional and geographical issues and population voting issues that can be interpreted as representational issues as well.

[1:55:16] Trustee Bernardo: So I'd like some clarification about what the very general word representational is intended to capture.

[1:55:22] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[1:55:24] Voice 4: I can add some clarity.

[1:55:26] Voice 4: But again, this was language that was in the governance matrix.

[1:55:29] Voice 4: So I think maybe Trustee Getty is in a better position to answer that.

[1:55:34] Voice 4: but in the conversation yesterday my understanding of what representational differences was included

[1:55:40] Voice 4: the things that you mentioned as well um and just to have those things considered in terms of how

[1:55:46] Voice 4: we're going forward in our governance work like what that might look like uh for asks that we're

[1:55:51] Voice 1: making

[1:55:51] Voice 4: to the province so it does include indigenous representation or participation

[1:55:54] Voice 4: in different ways it does include the conversation that we had last night around spatial

[1:56:01] Voice 4: facial representation. So I just feel that that particular issue,

[1:56:05] Voice 6: that whole box of that issue

[1:56:06] Voice 6: needs to be a little higher priority.

[1:56:10] Voice 26: Right. Does that answer your question?

[1:56:16] Trustee Luckham: Yes, it does. Thank you. All right.

[1:56:21] Trustee Luckham: So on this topic of the motion, which is already carried,

[1:56:27] Trustee Luckham: you know, it's a little unusual. I apologize if I wasn't, I should have been a little slower.

[1:56:33] Trustee Luckham: I did ask if there was any further discussion.

[1:56:36] Trustee Luckham: I didn't see any.

[1:56:36] Trustee Luckham: So, Christina Evans, and then let's try and move on.

[1:56:40] Trustee Evans: My question is to the committee.

[1:56:42] Trustee Evans: I understood yesterday that if something were to be moved up, something needed to be moved off because they were only able to deal with two or three items at a time on their priority list.

[1:56:51] Trustee Evans: So, if this does get moved up, does that effectively move something else off that's on their top priority workload?

[1:57:00] Trustee Luckham: I'll turn to the chair of the governance committee.

[1:57:02] Trustee Luckham: me.

[1:57:02] Voice 26: Could you repeat the question? I can't really hear.

[1:57:08] Trustee Evans: My question was, as I understood it from

[1:57:12] Trustee Evans: comments yesterday, if something gets moved onto the urgent and high priority list, other than the

[1:57:19] Trustee Evans: three items that are currently on the list, something would have to get bumped off. So if

[1:57:26] Trustee Evans: this item does get moved up, does that effectively move something else off that list?

[1:57:34] Voice 33: I don't think

[1:57:35] Voice 33: So I think what will happen is that the next meeting we'll look at what council has suggested our work plan B and try to define it and figure out who, what needs to happen in terms of background and research and who's, how to divide that up and who's going to do what.

[1:57:53] Voice 33: So I think it's, I'm not sure when it will be worked on, but I think that, you know, if you're telling us that this has to go on to the urgent and high priority, then we'll shift things around in terms of what we're already working on and how to figure this one out in terms of, I don't think we've talked in depth in terms of any time in terms of what it means and what it encompasses.

[1:58:21] Voice 33: and it was included as an idea.

[1:58:25] Voice 33: Now we'll have to flesh it out.

[1:58:26] Voice 33: So I don't

[1:58:27] Voice 33: think anything will get bumped.

[1:58:28] Voice 33: I think that we're adding to,

[1:58:31] Voice 33: you know, three

[1:58:32] Voice 33: things to discuss in depth.

[1:58:34] Voice 33: Now we've got four.

[1:58:35] Voice 33: Right.

[1:58:36] Trustee Luckham: So Deb Morrison, you had another item you mentioned?

[1:58:40] Voice 4: I'm going to ask Sam if he would like to move that motion

[1:58:42] Voice 4: because he was the one who brought the idea up originally.

[1:58:45] Trustee Borthwick: Sam.

[1:58:46] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah, I'd be happy to.

[1:58:48] Trustee Borthwick: And I'll just make it and we can talk about it afterwards.

[1:58:52] Trustee Borthwick: I move that trust council directs the government's committee

[1:58:55] Trustee Borthwick: to shift compensation from the not immediate

[1:58:58] Trustee Borthwick: and lower priority category and move it

[1:59:00] Trustee Borthwick: to the not immediate but important category.

[1:59:05] Trustee Luckham: Well, there we go.

[1:59:06] Trustee Luckham: So we got that.

[1:59:06] Trustee Luckham: You've got it on the screen.

[1:59:08] Trustee Luckham: This is fantastic.

[1:59:08] Trustee Luckham: I love this.

[1:59:09] Trustee Luckham: And seconded everybody's confident in what that motion is.

[1:59:13] Trustee Luckham: Is there any discussion on this item?

[1:59:16] Trustee Borthwick: And if I may chair.

[1:59:18] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah, please.

[1:59:19] Trustee Borthwick: And I will keep this brief.

[1:59:21] Trustee Borthwick: And I understand where Christina was coming from before, and I want to say to the governance committee that I understand you have a lot of different things, and I think that these things can be worked on in their time, and some of them are easier to fix, and some of them, like representation, may take longer.

[1:59:37] Trustee Borthwick: But it's my reasons for wanting to advance this and recognize it as a priority or as a slightly higher priority for this council is I think it is a question of representation for our communities.

[2:00:00] Trustee Borthwick: It enables a wider spectrum of demographics to participate in the political arena.

[2:00:07] Trustee Borthwick: It recognizes the work that we do.

[2:00:10] Trustee Borthwick: It also empowers us to do our jobs with greater diligence and depth.

[2:00:15] Trustee Borthwick: That's my feeling.

[2:00:17] Trustee Borthwick: And recognize that I think we all work really hard, actually.

[2:00:23] Trustee Borthwick: And, yeah, it's important.

[2:00:25] Voice 26: Thank you.

[2:00:27] Voice 26: Trustee Bernard.

[2:00:31] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[2:00:32] Trustee Bernardo: This issue actually came up at the last Governance Committee meeting, and I certainly support it.

[2:00:43] Trustee Bernardo: I certainly don't object to Trustee Borthwick's motion.

[2:00:47] Trustee Bernardo: But just so the group knows, I brought this up to move it ahead because it actually should be a very straightforward issue.

[2:00:55] Trustee Bernardo: It simply requires, I think, a resolution from the Governance Committee.

[2:00:58] Trustee Bernardo: We got a bit derailed because I got confused at the meetings.

[2:01:01] Trustee Bernardo: uh trustee peterson observed that on the follow-up action list um for uh trust council uh an

[2:01:10] Trustee Bernardo: examination of trustee compensation issues had been uh resolved on in last term and that was

[2:01:15] Trustee Bernardo: in process with um with staff i knew about that but at the meeting i'd forgotten about it and

[2:01:22] Trustee Bernardo: And the actual looking at the specific, doing the work of doing a comparison and the independent consultant type work that's required to examine trustee compensation, that resolution hasn't been made yet.

[2:01:40] Trustee Bernardo: And the point where that's where we got derailed.

[2:01:44] Trustee Bernardo: My intention is actually at the next governance committee meeting to bring it back because my understanding is it's a relatively straightforward matter for staff to move ahead with designing an approach with respect to engaging a consultant to do the comparative work.

[2:02:04] Trustee Bernardo: something like this with employee or sorry trustee compensation really um the role of both the

[2:02:12] Trustee Bernardo: governance committee and trust council is limited to simply pressing the go button

[2:02:16] Trustee Bernardo: in order for it to have any kind of credibility it has to be basically we have to be in receipt

[2:02:22] Trustee Bernardo: of an independent and objective report and then we have a decision to make but we can't

[2:02:28] Trustee Bernardo: have our fingerprints on that report and frankly neither can staff um from the obvious conflict

[2:02:34] Trustee Bernardo: issues so in any event uh my intention certainly is to bring the matter forward back to governance

[2:02:40] Trustee Bernardo: uh committee in any case uh for resolution at the next meeting there's very little for us to do

[2:02:46] Trustee Bernardo: other than to sort of ask staff to proceed uh and then once they've developed that they'll bring

[2:02:53] Trustee Bernardo: that proposal to this body for a decision and by which i mean the proposal to engage a consultant

[2:03:01] Trustee Bernardo: and to proceed that way thank you trustee getty i

[2:03:07] Voice 33: don't object to this coming into getting shifted

[2:03:10] Voice 33: around in the matrix um i think that our preliminary discussions about this um showed

[2:03:16] Voice 33: that it was fairly complicated and that we're going to probably um want to get some input

[2:03:22] Voice 33: both from staff and possibly financial planning committee.

[2:03:26] Voice 33: So figuring out what the next steps would be

[2:03:32] Voice 33: and how to bring it back.

[2:03:34] Voice 33: And so, Trustee Bernardo,

[2:03:37] Voice 33: if you've got a motion for the committee,

[2:03:40] Voice 33: then the sooner the better and we can get staff involved.

[2:03:44] Voice 33: Trustee Ball.

[2:03:48] Voice 41: Yeah, I think it's, you know,

[2:03:51] Voice 41: for the reasons that Sam said, it's really essential

[2:03:54] Voice 41: because it does block people from becoming trustees.

[2:04:01] Voice 41: However, I'm just a little bit concerned that,

[2:04:04] Voice 41: concerned is wrong, but I'm wondering,

[2:04:06] Voice 41: the compensation package is bundled up

[2:04:10] Voice 41: and intertwined with representation

[2:04:12] Voice 41: because, you know, if you're on a small population,

[2:04:18] Voice 41: your salary and your compensation is weighted by that.

[2:04:23] Voice 41: So I'm not sure how it's going to be possible for a consultant to do a thorough job without considering the representation part.

[2:04:36] Voice 41: Maybe they can do different scenarios, like the existing scenario, here we go, other scenarios.

[2:04:43] Voice 41: But I'm just thinking that if we don't put that on the table in advance, we could end up with something that's technically great, but not very useful, because we have to consider the representation aspect of it and how that might change.

[2:05:01] Voice 41: change. Thanks.

[2:05:03] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Mr. Chair, I'm going to let you handle the speakers. I just want to say

[2:05:10] Trustee Luckham: this is just a request to ask the Governance Committee to consider this. The details of that

[2:05:15] Trustee Luckham: consideration will be undertaken at the Governance Committee. And so what we're looking for is your

[2:05:19] Trustee Luckham: show of support for the Governance Committee to review this. And so speakers on the motion.

[2:05:24] Voice 25: So CEO, that

[2:05:28] Voice 34: consideration be made because there are levels of discussion that are required

[2:05:33] Voice 34: at the Governance Committee or whatever body this lands with.

[2:05:37] Voice 34: I've done this quite a bit in my career

[2:05:39] Voice 34: and certainly can assist.

[2:05:42] Voice 34: So

[2:05:43] Voice 25: Trustee Gavreau and then Trustee Allen.

[2:05:47] Voice 27: I will be supporting the motion and I would suggest,

[2:05:51] Voice 27: I'd understand where it's coming from.

[2:05:53] Voice 27: I think a good way to move this forward

[2:05:55] Voice 27: is rather than directing Governance Committee to do it,

[2:05:57] Voice 27: it's just to make the simple request

[2:05:59] Voice 27: and allow the Governance Committee

[2:06:00] Voice 27: to have the conversations

[2:06:02] Voice 27: about how do we integrate this better into the work plan

[2:06:05] Voice 27: so it doesn't interrupt with the current flow

[2:06:07] Voice 27: for what they have happening.

[2:06:09] Voice 27: They have three very big items under urgency.

[2:06:12] Voice 27: So to move something around kind of midstream

[2:06:15] Voice 27: while we're already working on it could be

[2:06:18] Voice 27: maybe not the best course of action.

[2:06:21] Voice 27: So I would suggest maybe an amendment to the motion,

[2:06:24] Voice 27: taking out the word direct and

[2:06:26] Voice 26: maybe putting in requests.

[2:06:26] Voice 26: left um

[2:06:31] Trustee Luckham: honestly i'll look to the chair of the uh committee i think moving this from one box

[2:06:37] Trustee Luckham: to another in terms of the matrix of the priorities isn't they're still going to make

[2:06:41] Trustee Luckham: decisions about how it is they're going to conduct their business would that be correct

[2:06:45] Trustee Luckham: chair getting so yeah

[2:06:47] Voice 11: so

[2:06:48] Trustee Luckham: with all due respect i think this is adequate in its form this is also

[2:06:54] Trustee Luckham: the next the newest member of the committee yeah welcome for the

[2:06:58] Trustee Luckham: job so uh council is there any

[2:07:01] Trustee Luckham: further discussion on the motion on the screen alex allen and i'll turn it back yeah i just

[2:07:06] Voice 17: want to address um trustee bullen's concerns is that i i if i'm under i'm mistaken it's like

[2:07:13] Voice 17: a dollar forty per person or something we're paid as trustees and so it will balance out if

[2:07:19] Voice 17: make it 240 per person or something that's

[2:07:23] Voice 26: it that's it are we ready to vote on this one

[2:07:30] Voice 26: okay all those in favor um i'm just going to go hands down any opposed

[2:07:37] Trustee Luckham: any opposed on the screen and that carries unanimously thank you council not unanimous

[2:07:44] Trustee Luckham: no no no no no okay thank you so um thank you um 5.22 is the next item you will recall i asked you

[2:07:52] Trustee Luckham: to come prepared to either stand or make a nomination for a seat at the Vancouver Island

[2:08:00] Trustee Luckham: Coastal Community's Climate Leadership Steering Committee appointment and funding request.

[2:08:04] Trustee Luckham: They've also asked for money. Seems to me that that amount is inadequate, but this will be a

[2:08:08] Trustee Luckham: decision of council. And so is there somebody from staff that's going to represent this, or

[2:08:14] Trustee Luckham: is it clear? Do we need any more information? Does anybody want to make a motion?

[2:08:21] Voice 29: um so just for a little background um executive committee mistakenly we had a we had a request

[2:08:30] Voice 29: that somebody from trust council be appointed to the steering committee and we thought it was

[2:08:37] Voice 29: executive committee and so i was appointed and i was never able to make the meetings work most of

[2:08:43] Voice 29: them coincided unfortunately with trust council so that is a bit of a challenge um they only seem

[2:08:49] Voice 29: to meet four times a year, but they are doing really good work. Trustee Morrison, you indicated

[2:08:54] Voice 29: you'd be interested in standing, so I'd like to nominate Trustee Morrison. I think you'd be an

[2:08:59] Voice 29: excellent candidate.

[2:09:01] Voice 11: So there's a motion there. Would you like to make the motion

[2:09:07] Voice 26: that's in the

[2:09:07] Voice 26: vote? Well,

[2:09:08] Voice 26: I wanted to leave it open if there's anybody else who

[2:09:10] Voice 29: wants to stand.

[2:09:12] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so then

[2:09:13] Trustee Luckham: I'll just ask, are there any other nominations for the representation on the Vancouver Island

[2:09:17] Trustee Luckham: and Coastal Community Climate Leadership Steering Committee.

[2:09:22] Trustee Luckham: No.

[2:09:24] Voice 29: Great.

[2:09:25] Voice 29: Grateful

[2:09:26] Voice 26: that you're willing to stop.

[2:09:27] Voice 29: I move that Trust Council appoint Trustee Morrison

[2:09:30] Voice 29: as Trust Council's representative

[2:09:31] Voice 29: to the Vancouver Island and Coastal Community's

[2:09:34] Voice 29: Climate Leadership Steering Committee.

[2:09:36] Trustee Luckham: Second.

[2:09:38] Trustee Luckham: All right.

[2:09:38] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[2:09:39] Trustee Luckham: Before we get too far along, David,

[2:09:40] Trustee Luckham: am I messing up the legislative process here?

[2:09:43] Trustee Luckham: We're okay.

[2:09:43] Trustee Luckham: This is a nomination for a non-standing body.

[2:09:46] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:09:46] Voice 26: Perfect.

[2:09:47] Trustee Luckham: So then moved and seconded.

[2:09:49] Trustee Luckham: any discussion all those in well you accept the nomination yes i would

[2:09:56] Voice 4: gladly represent i was

[2:09:57] Voice 4: actually the co-author of the climate emergency motion for the trust and i'm very very committed

[2:10:02] Voice 4: in this area so thank you so

[2:10:04] Trustee Luckham: all those in

[2:10:05] Voice 11: favor and and hands

[2:10:11] Trustee Luckham: down any opposed yeah you're uh

[2:10:13] Trustee Luckham: you're on thank you thank you very much pardon me

[2:10:16] Trustee Luckham: one opposed okay um so thank you so we have

[2:10:22] Trustee Luckham: have two more motion yeah

[2:10:23] Voice 26: yeah i'm on it

[2:10:29] Trustee Luckham: so there's a second motion to allocate uh funding requests um to to them they uh ask based upon

[2:10:36] Trustee Luckham: population for 250 dollars um it's up to somebody that moves the motion to determine what that

[2:10:41] Trustee Luckham: amount might be and go quick

[2:10:45] Voice 37: point of order did you say someone was opposed on that vote i don't

[2:10:49] Voice 37: think they were just

[2:10:51] Voice 36: just

[2:10:54] Voice 37: for the comfort of trustee morrison um

[2:11:00] Trustee Luckham: is there so i'm going to

[2:11:03] Trustee Luckham: simply put the ask somebody to move the motion in order to expedite the businesses it's a an

[2:11:09] Trustee Luckham: important group doing important work raising money for vancouver island coastal communities

[2:11:14] Trustee Luckham: um to support climate leadership sue ellen fast yeah

[2:11:18] Trustee Fast: i've been to some of these meetings in the

[2:11:20] Trustee Fast: the early days um although i'm not in the vancouver island region obviously and uh really good group

[2:11:27] Trustee Fast: doing terrific stuff i move that trust council allocate 250 dollars from the secretariat services

[2:11:32] Trustee Fast: budget to support the vancouver island and coastal communities climate leadership steering committee

[2:11:37] Trustee Luckham: do i have a seconder over there with um susan yates thank you um do you wish to speak to the

[2:11:43] Trustee Luckham: the motion further i think you did i

[2:11:46] Trustee Fast: like the way um these kinds of uh financial contributions are

[2:11:52] Trustee Fast: um scheduled by population and uh it makes it fairer for everybody to participate so i didn't

[2:12:01] Trustee Fast: want to change the amount thank you right thank

[2:12:03] Trustee Luckham: you um any further discussion i'll call for the

[2:12:08] Trustee Luckham: vote then all those in favor and

[2:12:11] Voice 26: i'll get you to lower your hand and any opposed not sure so any

[2:12:20] Voice 26: opposed uh hands

[2:12:23] Trustee Luckham: up is trustee harris online and voting in opposition that's

[2:12:31] Voice 15: correct and trustee

[2:12:33] Trustee Luckham: campbell i just want to make sure we've got all our electronic connections yeah okay thank you

[2:12:38] Trustee Luckham: very much so then that carries and um and we'll continue on to the third and final um request here

[2:12:46] Trustee Luckham: uh seems administrative but to amend our template to add standing report from the

[2:12:51] Trustee Luckham: vancouver island coastal communities that's there do i have a mover for that tim peterson

[2:12:55] Trustee Luckham: i move that trust council request staff to

[2:13:00] Voice 16: amend its agenda template to add a standing report from

[2:13:03] Voice 16: trust council representative to the vancouver island and coastal communities climate leadership

[2:13:07] Voice 16: Steering Committee and Trustee Summary Updates section.

[2:13:11] Trustee Luckham: Do I have a seconder?

[2:13:12] Trustee Luckham: Toby Elliott, thank you, Toby.

[2:13:15] Trustee Luckham: Wish to speak to the motion.

[2:13:17] Trustee Luckham: Any discussion?

[2:13:20] Voice 26: All right, all those in favor?

[2:13:21] Voice 26: And hands down, any, and so we'll just wait.

[2:13:27] Trustee Luckham: Any opposed now?

[2:13:30] Trustee Luckham: Lower your hands online and re-raise them

[2:13:33] Trustee Luckham: if you're opposed.

[2:13:36] Trustee Luckham: Okay, one opposed online, thank you.

[2:13:38] Trustee Luckham: So that concludes that 5.22.

[2:13:40] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for your indulgence there.

[2:13:42] Trustee Luckham: It is important work that they're doing.

[2:13:44] Trustee Luckham: I, too, and Sue Ellen Fass and I think a few others

[2:13:49] Trustee Luckham: were at the inaugural meeting at AVICC so many years ago in Palo Verde, if I remember rightly.

[2:13:54] Trustee Luckham: And they've done amazing work engaging with First Nations and youth and stuff.

[2:13:59] Trustee Luckham: Montreal Pledge is the next item, 5.2.

[2:14:04] Trustee Luckham: The recommendation is that we receive this briefing as presented.

[2:14:07] Trustee Luckham: um is there any uh any discussion on this topic or we'll receive it for information at this time

[2:14:13] Trustee Luckham: by general consent any discussion on the montreal pledge uh sue ellen fast um

[2:14:22] Trustee Fast: thank you i just

[2:14:23] Trustee Fast: wanted to uh point out that there are a um it's sharing the thinking but there are a number of uh

[2:14:30] Trustee Fast: options for trust council too that we thought might be response options on page um gosh the

[2:14:40] Trustee Fast: last page of the uh say it

[2:14:43] Trustee Fast: again 105 105 sorry i've got a earlier printout um and uh i think

[2:14:53] Trustee Fast: it would be great if those could be up on the screen page

[2:14:56] Voice 26: 105 there they are thank you um

[2:15:05] Voice 26: You could just

[2:15:07] Trustee Fast: receive the briefing for information, which is the first response, and you could wait for a response from regional planning committee.

[2:15:17] Trustee Fast: You could refer it to the Islands Trust Conservancy Board, because this is a biodiversity topic that might be of interest to them, although their chair was involved, Risa Smith.

[2:15:26] Trustee Fast: We asked her, and she's a trustee appointed by the province, and the rest of them are there, and I'm...

[2:15:36] Trustee Fast: assuming everybody read it. So I won't introduce it in detail. It's about the impact of the

[2:15:41] Trustee Fast: Montreal Declaration, then the impact that it might have on the Islands Trust. There's some

[2:15:46] Trustee Fast: positive impacts that you can read about in the first few sections of the report, that we,

[2:15:54] Trustee Fast: who were involved in this, this working group, two members from Trust Programs Committee,

[2:16:00] Trustee Fast: two members from Regional Planning Committee, and the Chair, Risa Smith, and then a Chair of

[2:16:05] Trustee Fast: IELTS Trust Conservancy. And then there's a negative impact suggested in the final section

[2:16:13] Trustee Fast: of the report. And I'm wondering if anybody wants to do anything with any of this. Thank you.

[2:16:22] Voice 26: Dag Falk. Yeah.

[2:16:26] Voice 10: I just want to recognize my appreciation for the dissenting view being

[2:16:31] Voice 10: included and thoroughly done. And that was very important to see that.

[2:16:36] Voice 10: that um when there is positives and negatives i'm not sure what i'm a little unclear on

[2:16:44] Voice 10: are we going forward with something are we endorsing something are we voting on that or what

[2:16:50] Voice 10: so i

[2:16:51] Trustee Luckham: if you don't mind um the intent was not to have a discussion about this item today but to

[2:16:57] Trustee Luckham: receive it for information and i think that if you thought about it and discuss it there would

[2:17:02] Trustee Luckham: be an option in the future to bring something back and maybe engage in it fully um i do want

[2:17:08] Trustee Luckham: to move on with our financial budget which is the important item here today and so um

[2:17:15] Trustee Luckham: i would suggest we receive this information and if there's a group of you that want to

[2:17:19] Trustee Luckham: pool together to propose some work for council i think that would be appreciated in the

[2:17:24] Trustee Luckham: the in the near future ideally um so on the speaker's list christina evans so

[2:17:33] Trustee Evans: i just want to

[2:17:34] Trustee Evans: make the comment that um this uh this was brought forward by a delegation that we said that we were

[2:17:40] Trustee Evans: going to research and look into so it was a joint um working group that was formed to take a look at

[2:17:47] Trustee Evans: it this is uh i don't believe this is something that we are looking to sign up to because this

[2:17:52] Trustee Evans: This is primarily directed at cities.

[2:17:55] Trustee Evans: We are just looking at potential impacts or takeaways from this report.

[2:18:00] Trustee Evans: So I just wanted to clarify that.

[2:18:02] Trustee Evans: Thank you.

[2:18:04] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:18:05] Trustee Luckham: Can I just receive this for information by general consent at this time?

[2:18:09] Trustee Luckham: And it is important work.

[2:18:11] Trustee Luckham: I don't want to underestimate that.

[2:18:13] Trustee Luckham: So five point, Judy Getty.

[2:18:18] Voice 33: the option number five is to refer the report back to trust program committee or regional

[2:18:25] Voice 33: planning committee for further assessment of possible actions outlined in this report i

[2:18:29] Voice 33: would think that it would not necessarily get lost and have to start the process over again

[2:18:34] Voice 33: so i would move that rather than the first one that we um go with number five and refer it back

[2:18:41] Voice 33: so can you make

[2:18:42] Trustee Luckham: that motion yeah

[2:18:43] Voice 33: um i moved the trust council refer this report back to

[2:18:46] Voice 33: trust programs committee and regional planning committee for further assessment of possible

[2:18:51] Voice 33: actions outlined in this report all

[2:18:54] Trustee Luckham: right so the motion as presented on the screen i've got a

[2:18:57] Trustee Luckham: seconder and toby elliott um do you wish to speak to the motion no no okay is there any discussion

[2:19:04] Trustee Luckham: on the motion now on the floor alex allen well

[2:19:09] Voice 17: i i was the dissenting viewpoint and um i thought

[2:19:13] Voice 17: we already discussed it trust programs we've had represented some regional planning and trust

[2:19:18] Voice 17: program so i don't understand why it's coming back to us are we earlier i'll

[2:19:25] Voice 29: speak briefly to

[2:19:26] Voice 29: it my interest in this is beefing up our mapping capability and so from speaking from regional

[2:19:33] Voice 29: planning committee there's work that is to be done it's probably not this year we're not equipped

[2:19:38] Voice 29: yet we need an it lead um and there's significant work to be done in mapping but um what's identified

[2:19:46] Voice 29: in this report is not specifically related to the Montreal Accord or any of that. It's just

[2:19:51] Voice 29: opportunities with Google Earth to beef up our mapping. So that's what I'd like to look at from

[2:19:56] Voice 29: Regional Planning Committee perspective. Trustee Patrick?

[2:20:02] Trustee Patrick: I think it's important. At the Regional

[2:20:04] Trustee Patrick: Planning Committee, we said we are looking at things under multiple lenses. And as I said

[2:20:08] Trustee Patrick: yesterday, a good solution is one that solves more than one problem. And biodiversity is a problem.

[2:20:14] Trustee Patrick: so it is something that as we do our work and create solutions and suggest them those are

[2:20:19] Trustee Patrick: lenses that we need to apply to our work so that's how i would look at it

[2:20:23] Voice 25: trustee evans

[2:20:26] Trustee Evans: i think my question here is uh this um i i like the report itself that the people that the cities

[2:20:36] Trustee Evans: are signing or opting into is not up for consideration here we are not opting into this

[2:20:41] Trustee Evans: We are not signing up for this particular agreement.

[2:20:47] Trustee Evans: So if we're not going to sign up to this agreement, I think we've taken a look at whether or not we're going to sign up to it or not.

[2:20:56] Trustee Evans: That was the original request that came through.

[2:20:59] Trustee Evans: So if we're not going to sign up to it, I don't think we should send it back for further review if we've already decided we're not going to sign up for it.

[2:21:06] Trustee Evans: However, there are still takeaways from this, and those can be brought forward under a different resolution.

[2:21:12] Trustee Evans: under a different group yeah

[2:21:15] Trustee Luckham: so um i want to speak to the motion whether or not you want to

[2:21:21] Trustee Luckham: forward this to the committee um i don't we're not in a in a well-prepared position to have

[2:21:28] Trustee Luckham: a full discussion on the merits of whether or not we should advance this or not there was not a

[2:21:32] Trustee Luckham: recommendation to us it is just simply advanced to us for our information um so any further

[2:21:39] Trustee Luckham: discussion on the motion that is to forward this to trust programs committee and or you know that's

[2:21:47] Trustee Luckham: not a very good motion actually and to a regional planning committee um so uh and i can't recall how

[2:21:54] Trustee Luckham: that was word was it and okay thank you um is there any further discussion can i just call the

[2:22:01] Trustee Luckham: vote oh

[2:22:02] Voice 26: thank

[2:22:03] Trustee Luckham: you trustee elliott um then i'm

[2:22:06] Voice 26: going to call the vote all those in favor you're

[2:22:10] Voice 26: going to tally that standby 11 13 okay those posed so

[2:22:25] Trustee Luckham: that carries and um thank you council

[2:22:29] Trustee Luckham: um welfare bridge prevention resources briefing again we're not well prepared for conversation

[2:22:34] Trustee Luckham: here this is to receive for information take it back and consider advancing it in the future

[2:22:40] Trustee Luckham: in some fashion i would suggest um is there anything any discussion here or can i just

[2:22:46] Trustee Luckham: received this for information by general consent as you know deputy chief wildfire is critically

[2:22:53] Trustee Luckham: important and all this is valuable information so i'm going to take it then uh trust council

[2:22:59] Trustee Luckham: oh who claire oh director freighter if

[2:23:05] Voice 40: i might share this was being provided for input by trust

[2:23:07] Voice 40: programs from trust programs committee to council to seek input from council on the list that's

[2:23:13] Voice 40: attached around wildfire resources um trust programs committee is interested in providing

[2:23:17] Voice 40: providing this to the website, but didn't want to do so in advance of getting input from Trust

[2:23:21] Voice 40: Council and perhaps outside the meeting from individual trustees as to whether or not the

[2:23:25] Voice 40: list is complete and accurate. So perhaps individual trustees could be in touch with me

[2:23:30] Voice 40: if they have additional resources to recommend or they notice any discrepancies in the list.

[2:23:36] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Director Fader, for that kind offer. So Director Fader has asked you to reach out to

[2:23:41] Trustee Luckham: her if you have additional resources. So I'm going to receive this briefing by general consent as

[2:23:46] Trustee Luckham: presented thank you for information and now we're going to move to administrative services and

[2:23:53] Trustee Luckham: finance and i'm going to turn the the chairing over to uh um joe bernardo i'm as chair of the

[2:23:59] Trustee Luckham: financial planning committee and um um take it away joe uh

[2:24:04] Trustee Bernardo: thank you um we've got two different

[2:24:08] Trustee Bernardo: categories of things here we've got um some consent agenda items i'm going to try to deal

[2:24:13] Trustee Bernardo: with those briefly and then we actually have the the but the discussion of the draft budget um

[2:24:19] Trustee Bernardo: so let's dive into the consent agenda items the first item at 7.1.2 uh references the second

[2:24:28] Trustee Bernardo: quarter financial report that briefly the purpose of that report already all know this but the

[2:24:36] Trustee Bernardo: purpose of the financial report for the past second quarter that ends september 30 is to

[2:24:41] Trustee Bernardo: update trustees on our financial performance uh up to or during the last six months of this fiscal

[2:24:47] Trustee Bernardo: year fbc has recruit approved the report which is to say we were satisfied with the quality of the

[2:24:57] Trustee Bernardo: information that was provided uh with respect to how our financial performance over the past

[2:25:02] Trustee Bernardo: six months compares um uh you know to the budget that we had prepared for 2023 and 2024. it's a

[2:25:15] Trustee Bernardo: performance measure we approved it the item comes up for decision for to trust council in order to

[2:25:20] Trustee Bernardo: confirm the trust council is also satisfied with the content of the report so that's why it's

[2:25:25] Trustee Bernardo: before you uh and it's coming before you by way of consent because really the document speaks for

[2:25:30] Trustee Bernardo: itself but of course people have questions they're they're free to um to raise them uh and before we

[2:25:37] Trustee Bernardo: do that though uh i'm just gonna make another remark about the second consent item which is

[2:25:42] Trustee Bernardo: a financial forecast uh well before i get to that i'll summarize very briefly uh the take-home

[2:25:51] Trustee Bernardo: message from the second quarter financial report uh it's basically that after two quarters uh our

[2:25:58] Trustee Bernardo: Our expenditures are a few percent lower than what we budgeted and the revenue is higher

[2:26:03] Trustee Bernardo: by a couple hundred thousand dollars.

[2:26:05] Trustee Bernardo: There are reasons for that and that will come out, you know, that's explained in the report.

[2:26:19] Trustee Bernardo: But the financial forecast also casts some light in the same direction.

[2:26:23] Trustee Bernardo: It's actually forecasting what we expect is going to be happening financially going forward.

[2:26:33] Trustee Bernardo: And it's telling us what we can expect our expenditures and revenue to look like over the next two quarters and how that compares to the budget.

[2:26:42] Trustee Bernardo: And basically, if the current spending trend and revenue trends continue on their current trajectory, we're headed for a non-trivial surplus.

[2:26:52] Trustee Bernardo: plus. And that doesn't mean we're financial wizards. It means our classic perennial problem

[2:26:59] Trustee Bernardo: with staff turnover that leaves us with unspent salaries, job vacancies. That's a major component

[2:27:04] Trustee Bernardo: here. And we're also receiving more fee revenue because it just happens to be one of those years

[2:27:09] Trustee Bernardo: where people are making more applications. The details are on the forecast. Director Mobs can

[2:27:15] Trustee Bernardo: answer any questions regarding either of these two items if you have them. Similar or the same

[2:27:21] Trustee Bernardo: Same issues will come up in any case, I think, when we're discussing the budget.

[2:27:25] Trustee Bernardo: So unless anybody has any questions or issues they want to raise, I propose we move on to actually dealing with the draft budget.

[2:27:32] Voice 11: So we would receive the items as

[2:27:35] Trustee Bernardo: presented by general consent?

[2:27:38] Trustee Bernardo: Well, the first item, the second quarter financial report, you know, approved by consent and the other one received by consent.

[2:27:50] Trustee Bernardo: yes yeah

[2:27:54] Voice 11: so uh by general consent the items received and approved as presented right yeah

[2:27:59] Voice 35: all

[2:28:01] Trustee Bernardo: right i don't see anybody uh really excited about getting drilling into those particular

[2:28:05] Trustee Bernardo: documents so uh let's move on to the next item 7.2.1 uh yes just yes trustee morrison just had

[2:28:14] Trustee Bernardo: a quick question okay sorry yeah

[2:28:22] Voice 26: we are now on 7.2.1 page 134 back

[2:28:27] Trustee Bernardo: to you trustee bernardo okay

[2:28:28] Trustee Bernardo: Okay. To discuss the financial planning work program, I don't think there's anything that

[2:28:37] Trustee Bernardo: should be particularly controversial here. What we're asking for really is approval to continue

[2:28:42] Trustee Bernardo: the work that you already know about and have previously approved, and there's three interrelated

[2:28:47] Trustee Bernardo: elements to that. One is the main work of the Financial Planning Committee, which is develop

[2:28:54] Trustee Bernardo: to develop a budget for 2024 and 25,

[2:28:57] Trustee Bernardo: as we're spatially required to do.

[2:28:59] Trustee Bernardo: And we're going to be doing that, of course,

[2:29:02] Trustee Bernardo: by following what is the currently established process.

[2:29:06] Trustee Bernardo: Although we are trying to anticipate

[2:29:10] Trustee Bernardo: the corporate planning process.

[2:29:12] Trustee Bernardo: The second item is in fact,

[2:29:13] Trustee Bernardo: to continue developing the corporate planning process

[2:29:15] Trustee Bernardo: that's been previously explained

[2:29:17] Trustee Bernardo: and discussed by council.

[2:29:19] Trustee Bernardo: And the third item is to continue a project

[2:29:25] Trustee Bernardo: that was commenced back in february 2022 and i'll be honest with you i'm not sure uh how much

[2:29:31] Trustee Bernardo: progress has been made on that front it's probably something that fpc needs to talk to staff about

[2:29:37] Trustee Bernardo: but that is to continue the review of trust council financial policies that was commenced back

[2:29:41] Trustee Bernardo: in the last term that of course intersects with the corporate planning process that's the work

[2:29:47] Trustee Bernardo: program and uh again by consent there's nothing really new here we're asking that uh we just

[2:29:55] Trustee Bernardo: simply proceed with that

[2:29:56] Voice 26: being approved by consent.

[2:30:00] Voice 26: All right, let's move along.

[2:30:02] Voice 26: On to the draft budget.

[2:30:06] Trustee Bernardo: Okay, this is where the real action is here.

[2:30:08] Trustee Bernardo: And everybody's going to get excited and bring forth their favorite hobby horses.

[2:30:12] Trustee Bernardo: And we're going to fight over them and we'll resolve nothing.

[2:30:21] Trustee Bernardo: As we should, because this is a draft.

[2:30:24] Trustee Bernardo: that. Director Mobs is going to provide you with an overview of where we're at in developing

[2:30:30] Trustee Bernardo: the budget for the next fiscal year. But before she does that, I want to address a couple

[2:30:34] Trustee Bernardo: of important points. At our last meeting, after Trust Council approved our budget principles,

[2:30:42] Trustee Bernardo: I asked you all for input regarding budget guidelines, which Director Mobs tells me might

[2:30:48] Trustee Bernardo: be more understandable to people if I call them guideposts. But I'll explain them in

[2:30:53] Trustee Bernardo: to admit it if I can, but I don't think I

[2:30:55] Trustee Bernardo: explained the difference between principles and guideposts

[2:30:57] Trustee Bernardo: or guidelines very well last time.

[2:31:01] Trustee Bernardo: And

[2:31:02] Trustee Bernardo: because I'm going to

[2:31:04] Trustee Bernardo: ask trustees to think,

[2:31:06] Voice 26: not

[2:31:06] Trustee Bernardo: decide, but think in terms of

[2:31:08] Trustee Bernardo: guidelines in this process, because

[2:31:10] Trustee Bernardo: we're going to be coming back to this

[2:31:12] Trustee Bernardo: as we work through the budget.

[2:31:14] Trustee Bernardo: Our budgets are built

[2:31:18] Trustee Bernardo: like

[2:31:19] Trustee Bernardo: constructives, like the inputs

[2:31:21] Trustee Bernardo: that go into it

[2:31:22] Trustee Bernardo: are mainly mandated

[2:31:25] Trustee Bernardo: by rules or standards that are prescribed for public entities like ours,

[2:31:30] Trustee Bernardo: by legislation and the accounting profession.

[2:31:33] Trustee Bernardo: Those are not, they're not elective.

[2:31:35] Trustee Bernardo: We don't have choices about those.

[2:31:36] Trustee Bernardo: Those are the established mandated practices that make our budgets legitimate.

[2:31:42] Trustee Bernardo: And Director Mobbs is fully in command of all that.

[2:31:46] Trustee Bernardo: What we do have the ability to do is to shape the direction of the budget.

[2:31:52] Trustee Bernardo: And there's two elements to that.

[2:31:54] Trustee Bernardo: There's the principles I talked about.

[2:31:56] Voice 38: And

[2:31:56] Trustee Bernardo: there's the guidelines and the principles we adopted actually at Last Trust Council and guidelines that we have yet to develop and adopt.

[2:32:03] Trustee Bernardo: We've got the ability to choose principles and guidelines that we believe should apply to our budget development to account for our specific context and the financial outcomes we believe are appropriate.

[2:32:19] Trustee Bernardo: principles i think uh can be thought of and this is my amateurish way of describing it

[2:32:26] Trustee Bernardo: director mob's problem with fringing as i summarize this stuff but principles i think

[2:32:31] Trustee Bernardo: can be thought of as approaches that we choose to adopt when we deal with certain transaction

[2:32:35] Trustee Bernardo: or events in the budget at the last meeting we adopted a set of principles and those will be

[2:32:41] Trustee Bernardo: relevant later on when we do adopt the corporate planning process if we get there but one of those

[2:32:47] Trustee Bernardo: principles just by way of example to refresh your memory on this is we're going to assume

[2:32:52] Trustee Bernardo: the property tax base within the islands trust area will grow due to new development activity

[2:32:58] Trustee Bernardo: and changes in use that sounds controversial it sounds like common sense but in the development

[2:33:05] Trustee Bernardo: of a budget you have to sort of document that as an operating principle because that will shape

[2:33:10] Trustee Bernardo: some of your decisions about how you you know manage and present the numbers guidelines are

[2:33:17] Trustee Bernardo: are different, where principles are about how to treat budget inputs, guidelines or guideposts or

[2:33:22] Trustee Bernardo: rules that we adopt about what the budget should deliver. For example, if Trust Council made it a

[2:33:30] Trustee Bernardo: condition that budget increases should be limited to a set percentage, zero, one, two, three,

[2:33:37] Trustee Bernardo: whatever, and that's not coming up today, don't worry. But if Trust Council made it a condition

[2:33:45] Trustee Bernardo: that that be the case then that would be a budget guideline it's basically saying okay you know you

[2:33:50] Trustee Bernardo: got all these principles and how you develop the budget but at the end of the piece the budget has

[2:33:54] Trustee Bernardo: to look like this it has to have at least this dimension it has to be limited or there's some

[2:33:59] Trustee Bernardo: other component to it um we have as i said uh fpc has not yet developed any guideposts for

[2:34:06] Trustee Bernardo: trust council uh to consider uh we're not going to try to do any of that today i'm just bringing

[2:34:13] Trustee Bernardo: bringing this up to let you know FPC has work to do on that front. I'm going to try to get us to

[2:34:18] Trustee Bernardo: talk about it at the next meeting. But these guidelines are important. The reason I'm bringing

[2:34:23] Trustee Bernardo: it up is we need you to think about them, but also to give you a heads up that we need guidelines in

[2:34:30] Trustee Bernardo: order to ensure we end up with a budget that reflects our strategic priorities. Instead of,

[2:34:36] Trustee Bernardo: to be honest, what we have now is a collection of ad hoc spending decisions. They're not guided by

[2:34:41] Trustee Bernardo: an overarching set of principles again corporate planning hopes to institute that but in order to

[2:34:48] Trustee Bernardo: institute that it has to have a sensible component that really any type of budgeting is going to have

[2:34:56] Trustee Bernardo: is along these guidelines you have a a vision sorry to use that word but you know you have a

[2:35:02] Trustee Bernardo: vision of what the outcome is going to look like and it's defined according to these guidelines

[2:35:06] Trustee Bernardo: lines and that's really important because right now uh fpc and other trustees in the draft budget

[2:35:17] Trustee Bernardo: process are looking at a stack of business cases but we actually do not have a basis really a

[2:35:23] Trustee Bernardo: principled basis for making cost benefit decisions about them that compare the relative value or

[2:35:29] Trustee Bernardo: advantages or the relative merits of one against the other or against our strategic objectives

[2:35:35] Trustee Bernardo: objectives and if you have a limited amount of money and you have 10 really good ideas but you

[2:35:41] Trustee Bernardo: can only afford eight well you need to have a basis for deciding which two of these get cut

[2:35:47] Trustee Bernardo: we don't have that what we have is just endless discussions about the things that we like

[2:35:52] Trustee Bernardo: and we argue about for them and we end up basically with a collection of ad hoc spending

[2:35:57] Trustee Bernardo: decisions that aren't shaped by any kind of guidelines we need to establish some ground

[2:36:01] Trustee Bernardo: rules here for making those choices we're not there yet uh and it wouldn't be fair to ask

[2:36:09] Trustee Bernardo: this body to start talking about them now but i'm just informing you about the idea

[2:36:13] Trustee Bernardo: but because it's something that we need to develop uh and i'm also talking about this

[2:36:20] Trustee Bernardo: because after director mobs finishes her briefing uh well i want to be clear about something today

[2:36:27] Trustee Bernardo: is not the day we're going to see these business cases some of you have read them today is not

[2:36:32] Trustee Bernardo: the day for for this body to decide which business case to deliver done which is right or not because

[2:36:40] Trustee Bernardo: if a business case is insufficient in terms of the information it has or you're not satisfied

[2:36:46] Trustee Bernardo: with it the thing to do is really to send it back and to say look we need more information

[2:36:51] Trustee Bernardo: this doesn't look right or this doesn't meet this criteria or something like that

[2:36:56] Trustee Bernardo: again we don't have the time to do that exercise here and it ought not to happen until fpc has

[2:37:02] Trustee Bernardo: has actually done it and that we can come to you with some recommendations we haven't done that yet

[2:37:06] Trustee Bernardo: but uh after director mobs has finished her briefing uh i believe it's important that trust

[2:37:14] Trustee Bernardo: council uh consider the business case executive committee's prepared with respect to funding a

[2:37:20] Trustee Bernardo: move to a different different office facilities in salt spring and i want to be very clear about

[2:37:24] Trustee Bernardo: why i'm asking that we do that with respect to this one business case it's because first of all

[2:37:29] Trustee Bernardo: it's a very big ask there's a lot of money involved and fpc needs some kind of clues

[2:37:38] Trustee Bernardo: as to how t's trust committee is thinking about that issue and because we don't have

[2:37:44] Trustee Bernardo: these established guidelines i've been talking about to help us otherwise assess the merits

[2:37:50] Trustee Bernardo: and given the scale of this ask we'd like to get your input on that to be clear this is not the

[2:37:58] Trustee Bernardo: time to make any decisions about that. Really, that discussion, what I'm envisioning for that

[2:38:05] Trustee Bernardo: is we're really stress testing the business case. What's missing or what's in it that people here

[2:38:13] Trustee Bernardo: think is satisfactory? What's missing? Does the business case describe the challenge properly so

[2:38:20] Trustee Bernardo: that we can manage it? That kind of stuff. Let's stress test that business case because it's such

[2:38:25] Trustee Bernardo: a big one when we do get point of having to decide what we do about funding the the office move we

[2:38:32] Trustee Bernardo: want to be sure we're operating on the basis of the best information available and and the main

[2:38:37] Trustee Bernardo: reason for bringing it forward here is for you to consider the sufficiency of the information that's

[2:38:42] Trustee Bernardo: in there now so uh with that uh i will now turn the matter over to uh director moz to provide you

[2:38:51] Voice 26: this briefing. Thank you. Thanks for

[2:38:58] Voice 42: that introduction, Trustee Bernardo. I now have

[2:39:02] Voice 42: the privilege of walking us through the draft budget as it stands today. So we're halfway

[2:39:06] Voice 42: through the budget cycle at this point in time. So it is the time that Trust Council gets to see

[2:39:10] Voice 42: the first draft of the budget. Of course, Financial Planning Committee has seen this twice already at

[2:39:15] Voice 42: their October and November meetings. So they are very familiar with the material. But we do need

[2:39:19] Voice 42: to acknowledge many trustees are seeing this for the first time. So I will be going through in some

[2:39:23] Voice 42: detail while trying not to take up too much airtime so there's still space for conversation

[2:39:28] Voice 42: and debate amongst trustees after the presentation. The draft budget overview begins on page 135 of

[2:39:36] Voice 42: the agenda package. It gives a brief description of some of the activities that have taken place

[2:39:41] Voice 42: to date to get the budget to where it is. Primarily that is executive committee, council committees,

[2:39:46] Voice 42: local trust committees and the Islands Trust Conservancy Board have all met to discuss their

[2:39:51] Voice 42: budget needs and submitted their budget requests staff have also undertaken the same exercise with

[2:39:56] Voice 42: directors looking at their business units and submitting their needs for next fiscal year

[2:40:00] Voice 42: all of that information has been consolidated by the finance team into the budget that is in

[2:40:04] Voice 42: the agenda today all of those budget submissions coming together provide a level of spending in

[2:40:12] Voice 42: the draft budget at 10.8 million dollars that is an 11 increase over the current year budget

[2:40:18] Voice 42: budget or a 12% increase over the current year forecast. Of that $10.8 million in planned

[2:40:23] Voice 42: spending, $9.6 million is directed towards operations, $807,000 is directed towards

[2:40:28] Voice 42: projects, and $364,000 is directed towards capital purchases. This is resulting in a proposed 10.5%

[2:40:38] Voice 42: general tax levy increase to local trust areas that does not include amounts expected to be

[2:40:44] Voice 42: collected on new construction and development. The proposed levy to Bowen Island is seeing an

[2:40:51] Voice 42: increase of 22.9%. The report has 23.5%. We've had a small reduction in that amount since this

[2:40:59] Voice 42: report was prepared. So the updated amount is an increase of 22.9% to Bowen Island.

[2:41:05] Voice 42: There's once again proposed draws from surplus and reserve funds. The proposed draw from general

[2:41:11] Voice 42: revenue surplus is $210,000 that is allocated entirely to the relocation of the Salt Spring

[2:41:17] Voice 42: Island staffed office. There's also a proposed draw from the Local Trust Committee project

[2:41:21] Voice 42: specific reserve fund of $219,000. $182,000 of that is directed towards two large Salt Spring

[2:41:28] Voice 42: Island Local Trust Committee projects with a remainder directed towards minor projects that

[2:41:33] Voice 42: might come forward from LTCs throughout the year. Some of the key drivers to some of the increases

[2:41:41] Voice 42: that we're seeing in the operational budget

[2:41:44] Voice 42: is for software support and licensing,

[2:41:47] Voice 42: technical support, insurance,

[2:41:49] Voice 42: our office lease costs are increasing,

[2:41:51] Voice 42: salaries and benefits costs are rising as well,

[2:41:53] Voice 42: as well as trustee remuneration.

[2:41:55] Voice 42: And we'll go through the detail of that

[2:41:56] Voice 42: as we move through the presentation.

[2:41:59] Voice 42: Primary drivers for the increase in the project budget

[2:42:02] Voice 42: is due to increased work on housing

[2:42:05] Voice 42: by regional planning committee,

[2:42:07] Voice 42: as well as local trust committees

[2:42:08] Voice 42: and salt spring island has two major projects funded as well our capital budget is increasing

[2:42:14] Voice 42: by 169 percent so by 229 000 over the current year forecast primarily due to the relocation

[2:42:22] Voice 42: of the salt spring island office location and increasing computer hardware and software costs

[2:42:27] Voice 42: and also a planned transition to microsoft 365 next year when we look at planned revenues in

[2:42:36] Voice 42: the budget so that discussion begins on page 137 of the agenda we don't see a change in the types

[2:42:41] Voice 42: of revenues that are expected for islands trust we do simply see a shift in the dollar values for

[2:42:46] Voice 42: each revenue source so local trust area taxes are calculated at 8.9 million dollars again that's an

[2:42:54] Voice 42: 11.3 percent increase to the local trust areas 10.5 percent of this should be collected on the

[2:43:00] Voice 42: the existing tax base with a small 0.8% collected on new construction. The Bowen Island Municipal

[2:43:06] Voice 42: Levy calculates at $429,000 in the draft budget. That's again a 29.3% increase over last year,

[2:43:15] Voice 42: and we would expect the vast majority of this to be collected from base properties with 1%

[2:43:21] Voice 42: collected on new development and construction. So what we're seeing this year in the draft budget

[2:43:26] Voice 42: budget is a shift from what we saw last year. Last year we saw the greater majority of planned

[2:43:33] Voice 42: tax increase generated on new construction and development. What we're seeing in the current

[2:43:39] Voice 42: draft is the opposite where most of the increase will be coming from the existing tax base.

[2:43:45] Voice 42: We have no planned special requisitions in the budget as we have received no requests from local

[2:43:50] Voice 42: trust committees for special requisitions. We do have a number of grants included in the budget

[2:43:56] Voice 42: this year, $568,000. Some of our grants are pretty standard, and then we've also got some

[2:44:03] Voice 42: new grants that are being awarded to Islands Trust. The $180,000 coming from the province

[2:44:08] Voice 42: as our unrestricted operating grant remains at historical levels. The Islands Trust Conservancy

[2:44:14] Voice 42: work for species at risk continues to be funded by a grant and is valued in the budget at $220,000.

[2:44:20] Voice 42: dollars. We did receive a restricted provincial grant of $150,000 in the current year that is

[2:44:28] Voice 42: restricted to work on First Nations engagement across the trust. So the term of this grant is

[2:44:34] Voice 42: five years. And so in next year's budget, we've assumed that we will be spending one fifth of

[2:44:39] Voice 42: $150,000. So the budget has $30,000 included in revenue. $38,000 is included in grant funds

[2:44:47] Voice 42: funds related to the local government climate action program, which we know we will be awarded

[2:44:51] Voice 42: again next year. There's also been a complete communities grant of $150,000 awarded to the

[2:44:58] Voice 42: Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee in the current fiscal year. And of that amount,

[2:45:01] Voice 42: the expectation is that $100,000 will be spent next fiscal year. So that amount is included

[2:45:06] Voice 42: in revenue in the budget with an offsetting expense line. Other revenue sources that we

[2:45:13] Voice 42: continue to have revenue from fees that's budgeted at $227,000 in the budget. That's

[2:45:18] Voice 42: It's simply a formula of anticipated application volumes multiplied by application fees.

[2:45:23] Voice 42: Interest income budgeted $190,000, and that's based on current investment returns.

[2:45:29] Voice 42: And we'll be looking at forecasted interest rate information as we move through the budget cycle to update that figure accordingly.

[2:45:38] Voice 42: As is usual for the trust, we do end up in a budget shortfall position, which means we do not have enough revenues to pay for all of the planned spending.

[2:45:46] Voice 42: so we do have to draw on surplus and reserve funds to make up that balance the proposed shortfall is

[2:45:51] Voice 42: four hundred and twenty nine thousand dollars so there's a proposed draw from the general

[2:45:55] Voice 42: surplus fund of two hundred and ten thousand dollars again that is to fully pay for the

[2:46:00] Voice 42: salt spring island office relocation and there's two hundred nineteen thousand dollars projected

[2:46:04] Voice 42: to come out of the local trust committee reserve fund 182 000 of that is allocated to two larger

[2:46:11] Voice 42: South Spring Island projects with the remainder for minor projects for all LTCs. On page 139 of

[2:46:19] Voice 42: the agenda package, we look at expenditures and we start with the largest expenditure for Islands

[2:46:27] Voice 42: Trust, which as usual is staff salaries and benefits. It's calculated at $6.6 million in

[2:46:32] Voice 42: the draft budget, which represents 61% of the overall draft budget. There is a chart in the

[2:46:38] Voice 42: The report that shows full-time equivalent staff

[2:46:42] Voice 42: by business unit or department within the Islands Trust.

[2:46:45] Voice 42: There was a comment made at a previous meeting

[2:46:47] Voice 42: that information presented in this way might be helpful.

[2:46:50] Voice 42: So hopefully that's the case.

[2:46:51] Voice 42: So we do have a column that shows base FTE

[2:46:54] Voice 42: that represents the full-time equivalent staff members

[2:46:57] Voice 42: that are currently with Islands Trust.

[2:46:59] Voice 42: And then there's a column for new FTEs

[2:47:01] Voice 42: and you'll see there's two new full-time equivalents

[2:47:03] Voice 42: that are proposed in the budget

[2:47:05] Voice 42: for a total of 62.6 full-time equivalents funded in next year's budget.

[2:47:10] Voice 42: So those two new staff positions, the first one relates to a new GIS staff position, a GIS coordinator.

[2:47:17] Voice 42: That's primarily to acknowledge the significant workload that the Islands Trust sees in the GIS department.

[2:47:22] Voice 42: That department supports all of the planning mapping requests,

[2:47:25] Voice 42: as well as the conservancy and volumes of work related to that continue to increase.

[2:47:29] Voice 42: And so there is a request for an additional staff member.

[2:47:32] Voice 42: There is a full-time equivalent budgeted at $105,000 related to a new conservancy staff

[2:47:40] Voice 42: position. This is simply a placeholder in the budget. So the conservancy is currently short

[2:47:46] Voice 42: staffed with some key members on leave. And so an assessment of whether or not a new staff person

[2:47:53] Voice 42: is the best way to address the property management challenges they are experiencing has yet to be

[2:47:58] Voice 42: be undertaken. So once that work is completed, we may see a shift of those dollars from salary

[2:48:04] Voice 42: to contractor, for example, if it's determined a contractor is a better way to go. But we wanted

[2:48:08] Voice 42: to have a placeholder for these funds. And so we've got that extra staff person listed there.

[2:48:13] Voice 42: Other factors that are influencing salaries expense, of course, include the 3% wage increase

[2:48:19] Voice 42: for all union staff, which is dictated by the BCGEU. The same increase is also afforded to

[2:48:25] Voice 42: excluded management that takes effect in July 1st of every year, with the union staff increase

[2:48:30] Voice 42: taking effect April 1 of every year. There is a nominal amount included in the budget for staff

[2:48:37] Voice 42: overtime. The majority of our staff who work overtime tend to take those hours as time off

[2:48:42] Voice 42: instead of taking them as payouts, and so the amount that's included for overtime as an expense

[2:48:47] Voice 42: is nominal. Our benefits expense continues to be calculated at 25.4%. This is amounts that we pay

[2:48:54] Voice 42: to the public service agency, they will let us know if that rate is going to change as we move

[2:49:00] Voice 42: through the budget cycle. We are currently on page 140 of the agenda for anyone who is following

[2:49:09] Voice 42: along. One of the key things that we take into account when we're drafting the salaries budget

[2:49:15] Voice 42: is staff turnover. So we acknowledge at Island's Trust we do have staff turnover every year.

[2:49:20] Voice 42: Sometimes it's significant. That does contribute to us chronically underspending our salaries

[2:49:25] Voice 42: raised budgets. So what we've done is taken an allowance of $170,000 for staff turnover. So we

[2:49:32] Voice 42: calculate what we think we'll need for salaries based on full staff complement, and then we've

[2:49:36] Voice 42: reduced it by $170,000, which is based on historical underspending. Trustee remuneration

[2:49:43] Voice 42: and benefits, no change to that policy. So it continues to be calculated as normal. There is a

[2:49:48] Voice 42: anticipated 5.5% increase for CPI. That number is likely to change. The policy says that the CPI

[2:49:55] Voice 42: figure to be used in calculating trustee remuneration is the december cpi figure for

[2:50:00] Voice 42: victoria we don't have that figure at this stage and so we'll be updating that as we move through

[2:50:04] Voice 42: the budget cycle and that's available adjustments have been made for changes in numbers of folios

[2:50:09] Voice 42: across the trust area as well we continue to pay for benefit plans for trustees we have seen a rate

[2:50:14] Voice 42: increase their effective october 1 of this year and so those increased rates are reflected and of

[2:50:19] Voice 42: Of course, we continue to pay trustees for their attendance to council committee meetings,

[2:50:25] Voice 42: and so we've got that budgeted for as well.

[2:50:28] Voice 42: Yesterday, Trust Council determined they wanted to meet four times in person.

[2:50:32] Voice 42: This draft of the budget does have dollars for that.

[2:50:35] Voice 42: Each in-person meeting is a budget of just over $31,000 for a total of $126,000 to fund all in-person meetings.

[2:50:45] Voice 42: meetings. Our executive committee and council committees are meeting largely electronically,

[2:50:50] Voice 42: so the amounts for those meetings are nominal. LTC direct expenses is budgeted at $72,000,

[2:50:57] Voice 42: which is quite a bit higher than what we've seen in previous budget years, which was $44,000.

[2:51:02] Voice 42: The primary driver for that is the location of our LTC chairs. They are having to travel longer

[2:51:09] Voice 42: distances and stay overnight in many cases in order to chair the local trust committees that

[2:51:14] Voice 42: they've been assigned to. It's simply a product of where trustees live this term that are on

[2:51:18] Voice 42: executive committee, and so we're seeing that number rise. LTC projects are listed on page 141

[2:51:26] Voice 42: of the agenda package, and they total $319,000. There is a business case for each one of these

[2:51:33] Voice 42: projects in the agenda package today. I will not be speaking to them, but they are here

[2:51:37] Voice 42: for council if there's any questions or you wish for staff to speak to them

[2:51:41] Voice 42: at the end of this review.

[2:51:44] Voice 42: Highlands Trust Conservancy expenses.

[2:51:47] Voice 42: Again, the request from the Conservancy Board

[2:51:49] Voice 42: is also included in this agenda package

[2:51:51] Voice 42: with all of the detail

[2:51:52] Voice 42: and is there for Council's review

[2:51:54] Voice 42: and any questions can be responded to.

[2:51:56] Voice 42: Excluding salaries,

[2:51:58] Voice 42: the amount for the Conservancy is $302,000

[2:52:00] Voice 42: in the draft budget,

[2:52:02] Voice 42: which is a very small increase over previous year.

[2:52:05] Voice 42: Our office leases and associated costs have risen.

[2:52:09] Voice 42: Our Victoria office lease costs are on the rise

[2:52:11] Voice 42: and we've incorporated that into the draft budget, we are making the assumption we will retain

[2:52:16] Voice 42: three staffed offices plus the small trustee office on Galliano Island. We don't yet have

[2:52:21] Voice 42: a sense of what our lease costs might be for any new Salt Spring Island office that we may

[2:52:26] Voice 42: land at. That will simply be something we'll have to update when we have information available.

[2:52:33] Voice 42: FOI and records management has $15,000 in contracted dollars to help with that work.

[2:52:39] Voice 42: recruitment and labour relations, payroll processing, retained budgets at amounts

[2:52:44] Voice 42: similar to the previous year and that is mainly monies that we paid to that provincial service

[2:52:49] Voice 42: agency for their help with job postings and recruitment and also processing staff payroll.

[2:52:55] Voice 42: Insurance is always a fun conversation. That number is always on the rise and once again we

[2:53:01] Voice 42: see that same situation occurring. Insurance is budgeted at $220,000. That is based on the

[2:53:08] Voice 42: premium rates that we have currently been offered with our existing insurers. There is conversation

[2:53:13] Voice 42: around where our insurance will go. We're going to have more conversations around that in camera,

[2:53:18] Voice 42: I believe, tomorrow. And if there's any changes to the budget that come out of that discussion,

[2:53:23] Voice 42: we'll be updating that accordingly. Legal costs, also a really fun space to budget for. We are

[2:53:29] Voice 42: never sure what claims may come against the Islands Trust in any given year. We do our best to come up

[2:53:35] Voice 42: with what we consider to be a reasonable budget. The way that we do that is to look at historical

[2:53:39] Voice 42: values and adjust for any notes that we are aware of. So legal general, we've budgeted pretty close

[2:53:46] Voice 42: to historical norms. Legal for bylaw enforcement is also budgeted consistent with historical norms

[2:53:53] Voice 42: and that reflects some existing levels of enforcement. If more or less enforcement is

[2:53:57] Voice 42: undertaken in the year, those figures could be adjusted. Legal litigation is always the tough

[2:54:02] Voice 42: one. We've looked at historical spending and made adjustments for known increases in the contract

[2:54:09] Voice 42: fact with our law firm and also made adjustments for claims that we know have wrapped up and are

[2:54:14] Voice 42: no longer on our claims list and therefore should not be generating significant expense for us

[2:54:18] Voice 42: moving in the future. We have a harder time planning for unknown claims that may come against

[2:54:22] Voice 42: us. Software support and licensing is budgeted at $194,000. It's about $44,000 above last year.

[2:54:30] Voice 42: The primary driver for that is $34,000 in new costs to move us over to Microsoft 365.

[2:54:35] Voice 42: 65. We also have rising costs for computer hardware and software budgeted $149,000. So

[2:54:44] Voice 42: there's a purchase of 30 new computers planned for next year. It's a large number that is driven

[2:54:49] Voice 42: mainly because in the last budget cycle in an effort to reduce costs, one of the things that

[2:54:54] Voice 42: we did was remove the funding for the purchase of new hardware. And so we're playing catch up

[2:55:00] Voice 42: in next fiscal year's budget, we have to we're procuring two years worth of computers,

[2:55:04] Voice 42: essentially. There's also $29,000 in additional contracted technical support that will help us

[2:55:10] Voice 42: complete some of the key projects that will be underway. On page 143 of the agenda package

[2:55:18] Voice 42: is a list of strategic plan projects. Most of those have business cases or supporting reports

[2:55:24] Voice 42: in the agenda package, again, that staff can speak to if council wishes. I won't go through

[2:55:27] Voice 42: them here. Operational projects is the same idea. They're listed on page 143, and there's business

[2:55:34] Voice 42: cases and reports for all of those as well. So once the draft budget is put together staff

[2:55:40] Voice 42: always undertake an exercise to see if the draft budget is putting any strain on our surplus

[2:55:47] Voice 42: balances. We do have a policy that says we need to maintain a minimum amount of surplus

[2:55:50] Voice 42: in our surplus fund and with the budget as it's presented today our surplus fund is not in jeopardy

[2:55:58] Voice 42: and we will be meeting those minimum policy requirements for balances and surplus. There's

[2:56:04] Voice 42: significant number of attachments to this briefing so we've got the budget that is shown in numerical

[2:56:10] Voice 42: detail it's a beautiful pdf with really tiny numbers on it that is at 7.2.2.1 there's also

[2:56:19] Voice 42: a list of all of our projects strategic projects local trust committee projects operational projects

[2:56:24] Voice 42: and new staff so i won't go through those they simply are just supporting information i can

[2:56:30] Voice 42: happily take questions if there are any.

[2:56:34] Trustee Bernardo: Before we jump into the questions, I just

[2:56:37] Trustee Bernardo: want to make a brief remark. I want to remind people that seeing these numbers and depending

[2:56:46] Trustee Bernardo: on what your interests are, it can be easy to get excited one way or the other. We're spending too

[2:56:52] Trustee Bernardo: much. We're not spending enough on this or that. I want to remind people this is a draft. It's what

[2:56:58] Trustee Bernardo: the budget would look like if all the business cases as filed or approved and expenditures and

[2:57:06] Trustee Bernardo: revenue friends continue as they've been to date uh some of those numbers are uh realistically some

[2:57:13] Trustee Bernardo: are harder than others i mean we have some fixed costs aren't going away but these formally these

[2:57:18] Trustee Bernardo: are not hard numbers um so just uh you know depending on how excited you get about them

[2:57:25] Trustee Bernardo: them let me just remember that and uh of course you should feel i i mentioned before that i think

[2:57:31] Trustee Bernardo: it's important that we discuss the salt spring uh business case and and i think we should do that

[2:57:37] Trustee Bernardo: somewhere in this piece but i think i want to be clear that you should all feel free to ask

[2:57:42] Trustee Bernardo: anything you want about the budget including anything about other business cases that you

[2:57:47] Trustee Bernardo: may wish to dig into thank you

[2:57:51] Trustee Luckham: sure if you don't mind i just want to let council know we're at 11

[2:57:54] Trustee Luckham: and 30 this session it was originally intended to end at noon i've told the chair we can continue

[2:58:00] Trustee Luckham: this session in the afternoon where time allows because we've had changes in delegations but we've

[2:58:06] Trustee Luckham: got a lot of items to get through um on this section so let us continue over to questions

[2:58:11] Trustee Luckham: and

[2:58:11] Voice 26: let's turn it back to the chair trustee morrison um

[2:58:21] Voice 4: so i thanks very much to the

[2:58:24] Voice 4: financial planning committee for this um report as always to director moms for her stellar work

[2:58:30] Voice 4: in the space um and also for the discussion around guidelines and principles because i think that's

[2:58:35] Voice 4: an important distinction um so i guess one of my questions is at a very high level about you know

[2:58:41] Voice 4: if i have my numbers correct here we have uh 10.5 percent for this proposed budget um increase

[2:58:50] Voice 4: there's inflation to think about i'm unclear how that sits in with that number i guess i want to

[2:58:56] Voice 4: to understand like as a guideline for the budget and i know you don't want us to talk about

[2:59:03] Voice 4: guidelines right now but as a guideline for the budget um like how are we um discussing this type

[2:59:13] Voice 4: of an increase or this proposed view and how do we have that with our communities in a way that

[2:59:19] Voice 4: because everything's moving right in the trust all of these different processes

[2:59:23] Voice 4: processes and an increase like this during all these moving things is it was hard last year it's

[2:59:28] Voice 4: going to be harder this year because and so i just i'm struggling with myself understanding

[2:59:35] Voice 4: the need for the increase because we haven't kind of refined the rest of our strategic and

[2:59:40] Voice 4: corporate planning so and if if you can tell me how financial planning committee is working that

[2:59:45] Voice 4: out for themselves

[2:59:46] Voice 5: that will help me a little bit i think oh

[2:59:51] Trustee Bernardo: a question for me that's not how it's

[2:59:55] Trustee Bernardo: supposed to work. I'm supposed to pretend.

[3:00:00] Trustee Bernardo: Julia is supposed to know. I don't have an easy answer for you. You're confused because we're all

[3:00:07] Trustee Bernardo: confused. We don't know. On FPC, we don't actually have a principled basis for making those decisions.

[3:00:17] Trustee Bernardo: When I talked about guidelines, having both the principles and guidelines gives you a coherent

[3:00:25] Trustee Bernardo: rationale for why the budget looks like it does. Then you're in a position to be able to explain

[3:00:29] Trustee Bernardo: to explain that to your community.

[3:00:31] Trustee Bernardo: We just adopted principles last time.

[3:00:35] Trustee Bernardo: We're struggling to figure out how to develop guidelines

[3:00:39] Trustee Bernardo: for this organization now.

[3:00:41] Trustee Bernardo: We don't have them yet.

[3:00:44] Trustee Bernardo: The unhappy reality, which is very difficult to both accept

[3:00:50] Trustee Bernardo: and virtually impossible to explain to the public

[3:00:55] Trustee Bernardo: is that we actually do not have a process

[3:00:57] Trustee Bernardo: for making cost benefit decisions.

[3:01:03] Trustee Bernardo: These budgets are at the discretionary level.

[3:01:08] Trustee Bernardo: These are ad hoc decisions that just pile up.

[3:01:11] Trustee Bernardo: That's why our action list is this a collected collection of things.

[3:01:18] Trustee Bernardo: And there's trivial things in there.

[3:01:21] Trustee Bernardo: There's important things that cost a lot of money in there.

[3:01:24] Trustee Bernardo: And we talked about this during the corporate planning discussions,

[3:01:28] Trustee Bernardo: which is we have this concept of strategic planning,

[3:01:31] Trustee Bernardo: but we've never linked it to financial planning,

[3:01:33] Trustee Bernardo: which we need to be honest with ourselves is a profoundly weird thing for an organization to do

[3:01:38] Trustee Bernardo: we're trying to fix that i'm sorry we're not in a position to be able to go to the public

[3:01:46] Trustee Bernardo: and give them an intelligible reason for why the budget looks like that or why

[3:01:50] Trustee Bernardo: a 10 budget increase is contemplated um because you'd have to be able to defend all the things

[3:01:57] Trustee Bernardo: that are in it now again remember this is a draft and that 10 number just like last year

[3:02:05] Trustee Bernardo: is likely, and I'm going to ask Director Mobs to comment on this, is likely to be quite a bit less

[3:02:10] Trustee Bernardo: when after these numbers start to flow through. Anyhow, if you could, Director Mobs, please.

[3:02:18] Voice 42: I concur with your statement around the tax increase likely coming down. That

[3:02:23] Voice 42: tends to be what we see at Islands Trust, is we see higher tax increases earlier in the budget

[3:02:29] Voice 42: cycle, and then they fall as we move through the budget cycle. The primary reason for that

[3:02:34] Voice 42: is usually that we experience underspending against the current year budget. And therefore,

[3:02:40] Voice 42: we're not spending everything we thought we would. So we've got extra money that we can

[3:02:44] Voice 42: draw out of surplus next fiscal year, and that offsets taxation. You know, obviously,

[3:02:49] Voice 42: there's also refinements that happen to the budget at the direction of Trust Council and

[3:02:53] Voice 42: Financial Planning Committee to remove certain things potentially. And that can have an impact

[3:02:58] Voice 42: as well. But the primary reason it comes down is not because we adjust spending, it's because we

[3:03:02] Voice 42: bring in additional surplus funds um

[3:03:08] Voice 4: so just one quick follow-up on that so the other thing that

[3:03:12] Voice 4: is related to this is the timeline for the budget and maybe this is i'll pass it to julia on this

[3:03:17] Voice 4: one um but or to director moms but the timeline for budget um you know having like reviewing cases

[3:03:26] Voice 4: and thinking in more detail about that is that different from prior years because i feel like

[3:03:32] Voice 4: Like, we've had a little bit, like, if we wait until, as a trust council, until March for this, there's not a lot of remedies or there's a lot of really late nights for you to try and adjust things as council changes their mind on these sort of ad hoc decisions.

[3:03:47] Voice 4: So I guess that's a little bit of my worry, too, is, like, the timeline.

[3:03:52] Voice 4: And maybe it's a financial planning that's going to come with more detailed descriptions of their own reasoning for yes or no on cases or something.

[3:03:59] Voice 4: I have hope on that.

[3:04:04] Voice 42: So I'll try to respond to that.

[3:04:05] Voice 42: In past years, we've certainly seen more debate up front about various business cases and

[3:04:12] Voice 42: various other pieces that are in the budget.

[3:04:15] Voice 42: Oftentimes, this is the meeting where we see more adjustments happening to the budget.

[3:04:21] Voice 42: And oftentimes, that was because the plan for public consultation is to go out in January

[3:04:26] Voice 42: and February.

[3:04:27] Voice 42: Public consultation is not happening this year.

[3:04:30] Voice 42: So that might be part of the reason why things have been held up.

[3:04:33] Voice 42: There's also a desire, you know, to implement, you know, some sounder practices and decision making, which is is adding to that timeline.

[3:04:41] Voice 42: But you're yeah, you're correct. It is different from what we've seen historically.

[3:04:46] Voice 42: I would say that, you know, when these business cases in this budget is before this body, like there is time and space to be making suggestions and amendments at that time.

[3:04:57] Voice 42: I don't think there's a great need to to wait unless there's something in particular that FPC wants to bring back.

[3:05:04] Trustee Bernardo: i i just want to supplement what director mobs had said

[3:05:08] Trustee Bernardo: in my previous remarks when i said that this isn't the time to decide any business cases

[3:05:17] Trustee Bernardo: i mean that in the sense that these are things that are still in development really

[3:05:21] Trustee Bernardo: in the thinking about them and all the business about guidelines and trying to figure out cost

[3:05:26] Trustee Bernardo: benefit yes fbc has work to do on that front but just as director mobs have pointed out this is an

[3:05:32] Trustee Bernardo: opportunity i mean i highlighted salt spring but it's the salt spring office relocation issue but

[3:05:37] Trustee Bernardo: uh this is an opportunity for trustees to weigh in on different expenditures and different issues

[3:05:43] Trustee Bernardo: like that you're not restricted in any way about weighing in on whether you think a specific

[3:05:49] Trustee Bernardo: business case makes sense or not what i what i want to steer away from is any hasty precipitate

[3:05:56] Trustee Bernardo: motions that say well you know the mood of the room is to sort of kill this thing so let's do

[3:06:01] Trustee Bernardo: it no no let's let's use this an opportunity to do some deliberation about what's in the business

[3:06:06] Trustee Bernardo: cases and that will arm fpc and also the drafters of those business cases to refine the information

[3:06:12] Trustee Bernardo: and their positions so feel free to engage any of these business cases they want to engage with

[3:06:21] Voice 26: trustee allen yeah thank you um well

[3:06:25] Voice 17: first of all i have concerns with the hornby island uh

[3:06:28] Voice 17: the relationship building because once again we don't have a senior

[3:06:30] Voice 17: your Indigenous advisor, we had to wait seven months just to get a letter to Comix First Nations

[3:06:37] Voice 17: after the new council was elected. So I'm just wondering, this is not going to happen, obviously.

[3:06:45] Voice 17: We're going to have to wait until somebody gets hired. And is there anybody in the queue somewhere

[3:06:50] Voice 17: in this position? Because I don't see it happening unless, you know, Claire or somebody is going to

[3:06:56] Voice 17: step up to this. So can you tell me that? And then I have another question.

[3:07:01] Voice 42: So I do know that particular hiring competition is underway. I think it just closed recently, so then we'll be moving into screening and interviews. So hopefully we will not be experiencing the significant vacancy that we had prior. Certainly, you know, this is a budget for next fiscal year. It kicks in April 1. The expectation would be to have somebody in at that time trained up to take on that work.

[3:07:26] Voice 17: and then um the city view software ninety thousand dollars is a huge amount of money and um

[3:07:31] Voice 17: i was wondering this was purchased this is this software has been bought with this recently last

[3:07:36] Voice 17: year or something and um but this is an add-on to something that's like because i was looking

[3:07:43] Voice 17: reviews in city view software and it's not there's not some great reviews about it i'm just

[3:07:47] Voice 17: wondering whether you and staff find it actually particularly user-friendly or not because uh

[3:07:51] Voice 17: I haven't read any good reviews about it.

[3:07:55] Voice 42: I can offer no insights into how user-friendly it might be because I've not used it.

[3:08:01] Voice 42: I know Director Cermak will have a lot more experience with it.

[3:08:04] Voice 42: And there was an info session where CityView provided some overview of the system.

[3:08:11] Voice 42: But I'd look to Director Cermak to respond to that question.

[3:08:17] Voice 18: Thank you, Trustee Allen.

[3:08:18] Voice 18: And so the CityView software has been purchased and is currently being created for planning in the Islands Trust Conservancy.

[3:08:29] Voice 18: But because of the grant that was approximately $350,000, we were not allowed to include in that grant bylaw compliance and enforcement into that.

[3:08:38] Voice 18: They just said, no, we won't give you money for that.

[3:08:41] Voice 18: So it was requested in the last budget cycle because almost it just doesn't make sense to have two different systems for reasons we sort of explained at that education session and that software demonstration.

[3:08:54] Voice 18: But last year was not supported in the budget. So here it is again, because the same rationale applies. It's just a tiny bit more expensive this year as it will continue to be so.

[3:09:08] Trustee Luckham: i'm sure i just wanted to add that there was a webinar that was offered last week

[3:09:12] Trustee Luckham: um for the purposes of the uh understanding the business case and it was not well attended i would

[3:09:18] Trustee Luckham: say by trustees and that's unfortunate but it was very good and we certainly had a positive

[3:09:22] Trustee Luckham: i had a positive experience with um seeing what the software has to offer but um mary

[3:09:34] Voice 41: So, from a kind of strategic level, the funding of our spend, so

[3:09:43] Voice 26: I

[3:09:50] Voice 41: am very frustrated by the

[3:09:52] Voice 41: fact that we are, we have made absolutely no progress on approaching the province strategically

[3:10:00] Voice 41: Strategically or otherwise, to ask for funding for anything.

[3:10:04] Voice 41: And it's come forward from the Retail Planning Committee.

[3:10:08] Voice 41: It's come forward from Financial Planning.

[3:10:11] Voice 41: I did a bit of research and forwarded it and it was well received.

[3:10:16] Voice 41: It's stuck.

[3:10:18] Voice 41: And I look at this budget and I see that once again,

[3:10:22] Voice 41: we have fixed costs of probably between 7 or 6.7 and 9 million or something of that order

[3:10:31] Voice 41: the increases in those costs we have no control over so we meet and we discuss a very small

[3:10:39] Voice 41: fragment of the budget which actually funds what is fundamental work of the islands trust which is

[3:10:45] Voice 41: ocps and lups and we are unable to we circle that plug hole round around around could we knock

[3:10:52] Voice 41: 5 000 off here we don't have staff to do this we can't finish the other we have to bump it to next

[3:10:57] Voice 41: year in the mid 90s the province signed an agreement when ocp and lub updates and trust

[3:11:07] Voice 41: policy statement updates were needed to fund over a five-year period a work plan we would go to the

[3:11:14] Voice 41: province give them a work plan and they would give us money every year towards those systematic

[3:11:19] Voice 41: systematic updates i'm

[3:11:21] Trustee Luckham: gonna interrupt i'm i'm sorry and um i apologize for interfering in the

[3:11:25] Trustee Luckham: chair's role here but i think we need to stick to the budget if we're going to get the budget done

[3:11:29] Trustee Luckham: certainly this is absolutely valid and legitimate but it's not going to help us advance this budget

[3:11:35] Trustee Luckham: for this term i'm

[3:11:36] Voice 41: sorry but uh it was discussed that we would approach the province even informally

[3:11:42] Voice 41: the retail planning committee asked that the funding of the housing um housing situation

[3:11:50] Voice 41: update that funding be requested from the province and none of that has happened it may not fix this

[3:11:57] Voice 41: budget but i don't believe that we can go through this year after year and throw our hands in the

[3:12:04] Voice 41: air and say oh we really should ask the province for some money there is a process that we could

[3:12:09] Voice 41: address. We could open a conversation with them and, you know, use it to fund the section of the

[3:12:15] Voice 41: budget that we can control. And that's a very small proportion of the budget, by the way. Thanks.

[3:12:23] Voice 18: So over

[3:12:24] Voice 25: to Director Cervak.

[3:12:25] Voice 18: Nick, I just wanted a chance to respond to Trustee Boland. Staff are

[3:12:29] Voice 18: meeting next week with the Ministry to discuss the protocol agreement with the Islands Trust

[3:12:34] Voice 18: and the provincial funding process, as well as the OCP by-law referral process for First Nations.

[3:12:44] Voice 12: Trustee Graham.

[3:12:47] Voice 12: Thank you. I just wanted to respond to a couple of comments that Trustee Morrison mentioned.

[3:12:53] Voice 12: That's a big number. It is a big number, 10%.

[3:12:55] Voice 12: You mentioned that it was painful last year. It actually wasn't painful last year.

[3:13:05] Voice 26: Sorry, David Graham has the floor.

[3:13:07] Voice 26: It was his point of privilege. I can't hear a lot of people's points of privilege.

[3:13:15] Trustee Luckham: Absolutely. I'm not questioning your point of privilege.

[3:13:21] Trustee Luckham: What I'm saying is David Graham has the floor and let's pay full attention to him.

[3:13:26] Trustee Luckham: And

[3:13:26] Voice 12: I will speak. I will try and speak louder to cover any other sidebar conversations.

[3:13:32] Voice 12: But I appreciate if people don't speak when other trustees are speaking. Good point.

[3:13:35] Voice 12: point. So you mentioned it was painful last year, but in fact, it wasn't painful as it could have

[3:13:43] Voice 12: been. Financial planning worked really, really hard to reduce that figure. One of the costs that

[3:13:48] Voice 12: was requested was that upgrade to the violent enforcement portal. That's about 1%. I think we

[3:13:55] Voice 12: had a 2% increase last year, so that would have been a 3%. Our other family of local governments

[3:14:02] Voice 12: were in the five to six percent increase, I believe, last year. So our increase to our

[3:14:08] Voice 12: constituents was considerably less painful than it could have been. Had we followed the trail of

[3:14:13] Voice 12: other local governments, we wouldn't be looking at 10 percent this year. We would be looking at

[3:14:17] Voice 12: perhaps eight. I've been watching the news, and regional districts, municipalities are already

[3:14:23] Voice 12: warning their constituents of double-digit tax increases. So we're not alone. This is a general

[3:14:30] Voice 12: increase in government costs passed down to constituents across the board um i was lucky

[3:14:38] Voice 12: enough to uh have the time to watch that city view bylaw portal demonstration i was hoping it

[3:14:43] Voice 12: was going to be horrible um it wasn't it was really cool and i can see why staff would like

[3:14:49] Voice 12: to have that and uh and the other one that i'm concerned and i hope we can get a lot more

[3:14:55] Voice 12: more information on is the Salt Spring office relocation. I found that business case really

[3:15:02] Voice 12: thin. There were, well, it was hardly there at all. I mean, pretty difficult to make an informed

[3:15:10] Voice 12: decision when you're left with so few options. And the one option that I thought, and this may

[3:15:16] Voice 12: be completely off the wall, but we've been around for 50 years, and I presume we're going to be

[3:15:21] Voice 12: around for another 50 years it would be nice to think that we spend a half a million dollars a

[3:15:26] Voice 12: year right now on leases that would be a 25 million dollar cost over the next 50 years and

[3:15:32] Voice 12: god know what we've spent up to date why why don't we not start thinking about purchasing

[3:15:38] Voice 12: um you know uh we're a government i don't know too many municipalities or regional districts

[3:15:44] Voice 12: that haven't spent a tremendous amount of money on their infrastructure um which in some ways

[3:15:51] Voice 12: is a statement of their permanence

[3:15:56] Voice 12: and their validity and their value.

[3:15:58] Voice 12: And I think Islands Trust deserves some of that,

[3:16:01] Voice 12: particularly after being here for 50 years.

[3:16:06] Voice 26: Trustee Mabry.

[3:16:09] Voice 26: Thanks, David.

[3:16:10] Voice 26: I

[3:16:10] Voice 23: thought I was going to sound off the wall,

[3:16:12] Voice 23: but that is exactly where I was going to.

[3:16:15] Voice 23: So when I, I'm not, this is not my strength at all.

[3:16:19] Voice 23: I have a lot of faith in the Financial Planning Committee

[3:16:22] Voice 23: committee and and um joey mobs to put numbers before us um so that we can understand them and

[3:16:29] Voice 23: so that we can make decisions and move ahead but i do know if my accountant came to me and said

[3:16:35] Voice 23: you know after all of the years that we've been in in in use um that i've been spending half a

[3:16:44] Voice 23: million dollars a year on a lease um why haven't i bought the property i'm leasing um that would

[3:16:52] Voice 23: would be exactly where i would go in this budget um but i i would go a little bit further than

[3:16:59] Voice 23: trustee graham and i would say if we are um having to spend a substantial amount of money on salt

[3:17:07] Voice 23: spring island there is some validity and doing the business case around moving our head office

[3:17:15] Voice 23: to salt spring island um i think i mean it's our largest tax base and i just think there's there's

[3:17:25] Voice 23: um good value in doing that business case and so i would be interested in seeing something like that

[3:17:34] Trustee Bernardo: uh i'm gonna exercise whatever prerogative i may have which you may not have uh just to step in

[3:17:41] Trustee Bernardo: here uh to um but we heard trustee graham mentioned that uh from his point of view the uh

[3:17:48] Trustee Bernardo: business case for the salt spring relocation is a little on the thin side so it's hard to disagree

[3:17:54] Trustee Bernardo: and uh the briefing note was prepared by the director of planning services at

[3:17:59] Trustee Bernardo: executive executive committee's request and the directors and commander the relevant details but

[3:18:04] Trustee Bernardo: the initiative is executive committees and i think given the tenor of where this is going i think

[3:18:11] Trustee Bernardo: it would be very helpful to fill out the discussion by having someone from

[3:18:15] Trustee Bernardo: Executive Committee speak to the big picture

[3:18:19] Trustee Bernardo: here and on the merits of what's being proposed by the business

[3:18:24] Trustee Bernardo: case and the direction it's going. Because we've already heard

[3:18:28] Trustee Bernardo: from two trustees who are looking at this from the big picture point of view

[3:18:32] Trustee Bernardo: and some kind of big picture is informing this business case

[3:18:36] Trustee Bernardo: not entirely clear what. So that's why I'm asking somebody from Executive Committee

[3:18:40] Trustee Bernardo: any time to step forward to speak to it, if they could, please.

[3:18:50] Voice 26: I'm, as

[3:18:52] Trustee Luckham: the chair, I look for staff or some support here.

[3:18:57] Trustee Luckham: What we know is in the business case.

[3:19:00] Trustee Luckham: And the trouble is, is that we know very little, except that the office on Salt Spring is going

[3:19:05] Trustee Luckham: to be unavailable to us and we need to relocate.

[3:19:09] Trustee Luckham: There's a process underway to find a suitable location.

[3:19:13] Trustee Luckham: Remember, this is Salt Spring Island. There aren't many, if any, suitable locations. So that's why it's slim. We're trying to put money into the budget because at the end of the day, that office will close when the lease expires and we need to be prepared to move somewhere else.

[3:19:33] Trustee Luckham: I don't think I have anything else to offer. And staff are working on it.

[3:19:39] Trustee Luckham: Well,

[3:19:41] Trustee Bernardo: perhaps the director could perhaps the director could tell us in a bit more detail where the number comes from.

[3:19:48] Trustee Bernardo: And, you know, we've heard two trustees here talk about their alternatives to moving relocating the office.

[3:19:55] Trustee Bernardo: And what I was hoping for is to have some input from the executive committee as to why you're at this early stage with minimal information promoting office relocation as opposed to exploring other opportunities.

[3:20:11] Trustee Bernardo: I'm not trying to be critical about that.

[3:20:13] Trustee Bernardo: It's just that it's a big deal.

[3:20:15] Trustee Bernardo: And I would have thought that other

[3:20:18] Trustee Luckham: things would have been explored.

[3:20:19] Trustee Luckham: So I'm just going to respond.

[3:20:21] Trustee Luckham: I might see an alternative.

[3:20:24] Trustee Luckham: You're right.

[3:20:24] Trustee Luckham: it is a big deal. This is also the budget cycle. And if we don't put money in the budget contingency

[3:20:31] Trustee Luckham: money to facilitate this, we will be in really big trouble because we'll be coming back to

[3:20:37] Trustee Luckham: council to say, we need a quarter million dollars to do a building renovation. And

[3:20:43] Trustee Luckham: that's where it's at. So I'm just going to bounce it back to the CAO.

[3:20:48] Trustee Luckham: If we had more information, we would give it to you.

[3:20:53] Voice 34: Yeah. A few things for trust council to

[3:20:55] Voice 34: consider uh i think we've net done pretty well with the arrangement with bc hydro over the years

[3:21:02] Voice 34: but the the power and the relationships being theirs um it's been extended a number of times

[3:21:08] Voice 34: i think we've benefited from that i don't for the people who've been in that office space it was it

[3:21:13] Voice 34: was large um i'd say a c c minus in terms of um of quality um and bc hydro has pulled the plug

[3:21:23] Voice 34: on on that relationship i would suggest to you that the number is high in this budget but the

[3:21:29] Voice 34: decision is not uh huge um for an institution that exists within a community of 12 000 as as

[3:21:37] Voice 34: as we went through the incorporation process we're well aware that that would put you in the

[3:21:41] Voice 34: middle of the municipal population base uh in british columbia um myself senior staff and

[3:21:48] Voice 34: anyone else we've spoken to never we contemplated the idea of having no office um but do not think

[3:21:56] Voice 34: that that is a is a reasonable this isn't a forever decision um this is some period of time

[3:22:02] Voice 34: decision which is a regular piece of business we did not re reconsider the nature of work

[3:22:09] Voice 34: on salt spring island in bringing this to you because we don't think that's a that's a reasonable

[3:22:16] Voice 34: proposition at this time. COVID taught us that we can work from home more, and we don't need

[3:22:23] Voice 34: as much office space. We still have a population of 12,000. We have a lot of people that walk in.

[3:22:29] Voice 34: There's limited spaces available from a lease perspective. The Islands Trust does not have

[3:22:36] Voice 34: a history, and if we want to dedicate some deep thinking to this, by all means, it's great

[3:22:40] Voice 34: for capitalizing on either the Victoria office or any of our other offices.

[3:22:47] Voice 34: That's an extensive strategic direction and a change in direction.

[3:22:50] Voice 34: We don't have capital budget that even gets us into the start of this conversation.

[3:22:54] Voice 34: We'd have to save for a good five, six, seven years to put us into a position to put us into a down payment.

[3:23:02] Voice 34: I will tell you, though, that we met with a number of other governments

[3:23:07] Voice 34: who occupy space on Salt Spring saying,

[3:23:10] Voice 34: what kind of future do you see?

[3:23:13] Voice 34: Where are you going?

[3:23:15] Voice 34: They're very much like us.

[3:23:18] Voice 34: I do think there's the right future,

[3:23:20] Voice 34: maybe five, six, seven years out on some co-owned land

[3:23:25] Voice 34: with agencies that are well-established

[3:23:28] Voice 34: on Salt Spring Island.

[3:23:29] Voice 34: That time is not now.

[3:23:32] Voice 34: We're in no position to be a player

[3:23:35] Voice 34: unless you want to take on a significant obligation.

[3:23:39] Voice 34: I think the number that you've got here represents one facility

[3:23:42] Voice 34: that we've taken a look at since we got the news that we're out, basically.

[3:23:48] Voice 34: I think the number is soft.

[3:23:50] Voice 34: I think it's going to change.

[3:23:52] Voice 34: I think the principles by which we're trying to do this are the right ones.

[3:23:55] Voice 34: We looked at new construction, sharing workspace with other agencies,

[3:24:00] Voice 34: creating a small storefront presence, maybe two people in the space

[3:24:03] Voice 34: and then everyone else at home we don't think the foot traffic and the complexity of the

[3:24:07] Voice 34: conversations and the number of non-salt spring island staff that use salt spring island as a

[3:24:12] Voice 34: workspace themselves to go to lands beyond um so we so the recommendation here at least the

[3:24:20] Voice 34: tentative recommendation is a decreased workspace smaller perhaps half the size um that we put

[3:24:28] Voice 34: reasonable and appropriate the number you're seeing in front of you is a leasehold improvement

[3:24:31] Voice 34: improvement. So the idea would be something that's appropriate for the staff of this

[3:24:38] Voice 34: organization because retention is important, but also probably in the C-level of input.

[3:24:46] Voice 34: I don't think this is the number that's going to stand the test of time at the end of the day,

[3:24:50] Voice 34: but we've got two other places that we're looking at. Right now, I'm looking at a letter

[3:24:54] Voice 34: that's trying to get us into another facility to take a look. So absolutely, you are not informed

[3:24:59] Voice 34: with everything you've got that you need to make a decision but i'm not contemplating from the

[3:25:05] Voice 34: horizon from dawn till dusk if that's what you want tell us and we'll back into a whole different

[3:25:13] Voice 34: type of um approach what has been the case has worked and it has worked for a number of years

[3:25:22] Voice 34: um so if if if it's if it's a more uh stem to serum reconsideration that's that you find

[3:25:30] Voice 34: appropriate let us know now and we'll try and figure out what uh what potential options there

[3:25:34] Voice 34: are otherwise this is the start of what i would consider a reasonable option

[3:25:38] Trustee Bernardo: so the number like

[3:25:40] Trustee Bernardo: the the policy discussion of what direction to go uh that's going to be probably an ongoing thing

[3:25:48] Trustee Bernardo: that should be and it'll happen here it'll happen fpc it'll happen here again but what i find

[3:25:55] Trustee Bernardo: striking uh i just want to be clear about something what i'm hearing is this is uh let's

[3:26:00] Trustee Bernardo: be clear really less than a developed business case than a placeholder uh when i hear a number

[3:26:07] Trustee Bernardo: 210 000 or whatever the number is here is soft and it's likely to change um and it is limited

[3:26:16] Trustee Bernardo: to anticipating what the leasehold improvements would be to one option that you've looked at

[3:26:24] Trustee Bernardo: it

[3:26:25] Voice 26: sounds like this is a placeholder have i got that right um i'm just not appreciating

[3:26:34] Voice 34: the distinction you're not asking being asked to approve this money today we're giving you the best

[3:26:42] Voice 34: information from what we've got so far so this is the if you want to go to saturn or mars right now

[3:26:48] Voice 34: whatever's farthest away that's what this is um i'm hoping we're already on jupiter yeah we're

[3:26:54] Voice 34: closer to earth at the end of the day um but yeah so it's better this than me walk in in march and

[3:27:00] Voice 34: and go, oh, my goodness, we thought it was 30K.

[3:27:04] Voice 34: It's 196.

[3:27:06] Voice 34: That would not engender a lot of trust

[3:27:09] Voice 34: and wouldn't be a reasonable plan.

[3:27:12] Voice 34: That being said, some leasehold improvements to anywhere you move.

[3:27:15] Voice 34: Lots of agencies are moving.

[3:27:19] Voice 34: So, you know, I think

[3:27:22] Voice 26: it's going to be better when we get,

[3:27:23] Voice 26: but I can't promise, and that's the outer horizon.

[3:27:30] Voice 26: It is noon.

[3:27:31] Trustee Luckham: I'd like a break for lunch.

[3:27:32] Trustee Luckham: It's getting cold at this point,

[3:27:34] Trustee Luckham: and we're going to return at 1230 and ask you to turn your mind for the chair's benefit to

[3:27:39] Trustee Luckham: think about these other items here at 7.2.2.4 2.5 2.6 of the broad 2.7 of the broad sections

[3:27:47] Trustee Luckham: we're going to move into delegations and public comment period and then san juan county just want

[3:27:53] Trustee Luckham: to let you know that san juan county um because of weather they were fogged out they are unable

[3:27:59] Trustee Luckham: able to join us in person, which is really tragic, but they will be joining us by Zoom

[3:28:05] Trustee Luckham: and some of their staff. And so we'll be proceeding with that item at 2.15. So depending on how

[3:28:13] Trustee Luckham: delegations go, we can maybe squeeze some financial planning conversation in there

[3:28:17] Trustee Luckham: and then proceed with our agenda. Is that all right, everybody? Understand?

[3:28:20] Trustee Luckham: understand? What?

[3:28:25] Voice 26: Oh, it's an hour. It's an hour. Yes.

[3:28:32] Trustee Luckham: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. So lunch is an hour.

[3:28:35] Trustee Luckham: And I think we need to break. And so let's, let's see you all back here. One o'clock.

[4:27:04] Voice 26: I hope everybody had an

[4:27:06] Trustee Luckham: enjoyable lunch and got some fresh air and are ready to go through the rest of the afternoon.

[4:27:11] Trustee Luckham: Welcome the audience that have joined us online and welcome members of the public here.

[4:27:16] Trustee Luckham: I see there's a few folks here today. Really glad to have public participation.

[4:27:21] Trustee Luckham: My name is Peter Luckham. I'm elected on Thetis Island in Penelope and Laxon Territory.

[4:27:26] Trustee Luckham: And, of course, here we are at Trust Council in Victoria in Esquimalt and Songhees territory of the Lugankans-speaking peoples.

[4:27:35] Trustee Luckham: And, indeed, it's a beautiful place for us to be.

[4:27:39] Trustee Luckham: It's also an opportunity for us to remember who lived here before we got here.

[4:27:46] Trustee Luckham: And the harbor doesn't look the way it did 200 years ago.

[4:27:51] Trustee Luckham: and I appreciate that there's been a lot of development

[4:27:55] Trustee Luckham: and there's been a lot of harm and tragedy,

[4:27:58] Trustee Luckham: but there's opportunity in the future for us to make amends

[4:28:01] Trustee Luckham: and through reconciliation, the work that we're committed to,

[4:28:05] Trustee Luckham: to repair some of the relationships over time.

[4:28:11] Trustee Luckham: So for the benefit of members of the public that have joined us

[4:28:15] Trustee Luckham: and those that are joining us online for this public comment period,

[4:28:18] Trustee Luckham: I do want to go around the room one more time for introductions and if you don't mind I'll start

[4:28:23] Trustee Luckham: again on the right hand side and if you can just quickly identify yourself and the island you're

[4:28:28] Trustee Luckham: from yeah right hand side yeah you're right Judy

[4:28:36] Voice 26: Getty Bowen Island Laura Patrick Salt Spring

[4:28:40] Voice 26: Island. Lisa Gilroy, Galliano Island. Doug Falk, South Pender. Morayth Boland, Saturna Island.

[4:28:52] Voice 26: Susan Yates, Gabriola. Kristina Evans,

[4:28:57] Trustee Evans: Sudeas, South Pender.

[4:29:00] Voice 4: Deb Morrison, Sudeas, North Pender, Wissanish Territories. Thank you.

[4:29:06] Voice 4: Toby

[4:29:06] Voice 29: Elliott, Gabriela Island. Thank you.

[4:29:09] Voice 25: David Maud, Maine Island. Tim Peterson,

[4:29:16] Voice 26: Sam Borthwick, Denman Island.

[4:29:20] Voice 26: David Graham, Denman Island.

[4:29:24] Voice 26: Alex Allen, Hornby Island.

[4:29:27] Voice 26: Sue Ellen Fast.

[4:29:29] Voice 26: Nikuelukwem, Bowen Island.

[4:29:33] Voice 26: Ann Hunter, Thedas Island.

[4:29:36] Voice 26: Lee Middleton, Citron Island.

[4:29:41] Voice 26: Janine Dodds, Skathak, Main Island.

[4:29:49] Voice 26: Joe Bernardo

[4:29:50] Trustee Bernardo: from Lactines, also known as Keats Island,

[4:29:52] Trustee Bernardo: which is part of the Gambier Local Trust Area,

[4:29:53] Trustee Bernardo: and traditional lands and waters of the Squamish people.

[4:29:58] Voice 23: Ben Maberly.

[4:30:00] Voice 23: galliano island territory of the pelican nation very

[4:30:04] Trustee Luckham: good thank you very much um so council and

[4:30:06] Trustee Luckham: members of the public just want to advise you that uh we are anticipating san juan county uh joining

[4:30:13] Trustee Luckham: us uh in person um chair uh wolf of the council was planning to join us but um as when all as on

[4:30:21] Trustee Luckham: all islands it would appear um that's the relationship we have with san juan county across

[4:30:25] Trustee Luckham: across the Juan de Fuca Strait here, across the Salish Sea.

[4:30:29] Trustee Luckham: Ferries and aircraft and other methods of travel are often challenging.

[4:30:33] Trustee Luckham: And today, fog has not permitted San Juan County to join us.

[4:30:38] Trustee Luckham: So they will be joining us electronically and certainly looking forward to that.

[4:30:42] Trustee Luckham: So we'll continue on as we do.

[4:30:45] Trustee Luckham: So at this time, we had a delegation on our agenda, Deb Ferencz,

[4:30:50] Trustee Luckham: and she's also stepped down wanting to make that delegation today.

[4:30:55] Trustee Luckham: and so that's going to move us directly into a public comment period um and then we'll continue

[4:31:01] Trustee Luckham: with the remainder of our agenda once we've completed that um but i'm looking at uh three

[4:31:08] Trustee Luckham: members in the room here i'm not sure if they're any hands up online or not at this time and if

[4:31:13] Trustee Luckham: you're dialing in you can raise your hand uh or or star 90 if you wish to uh address trust council

[4:31:24] Trustee Luckham: and i'm seeing one hand up in and there so uh council we've uh not got that many folks here

[4:31:30] Trustee Luckham: i've had some requests to extend the time period from you know two minutes to something further

[4:31:35] Trustee Luckham: and would like to ask your permission to extend given the number of people that are here um

[4:31:40] Trustee Luckham: extend that time period so to i would suggest why don't we offer uh five minutes um for uh

[4:31:45] Trustee Luckham: members of the public to address us so uh thank you is that we okay with that that's good so by

[4:31:52] Trustee Luckham: by general consent, we'll proceed with that.

[4:31:53] Trustee Luckham: So let me just turn around and ask you one at a time

[4:31:58] Trustee Luckham: to go up to the front there

[4:32:00] Trustee Luckham: and introduce yourselves in five minutes.

[4:32:04] Trustee Luckham: There is a microphone in the very far corner.

[4:32:07] Trustee Luckham: And if you can anticipate when you might flow through there,

[4:32:11] Trustee Luckham: that would be fantastic, okay?

[4:32:13] Trustee Luckham: And we have two online.

[4:32:15] Trustee Luckham: So perhaps what I'll do is I'll switch to the online persons

[4:32:19] Trustee Luckham: and toggle back and forth

[4:32:21] Trustee Luckham: it's between in the room and online, to be fair.

[4:32:27] Voice 26: Can you hear me? Yes.

[4:32:29] Voice 21: Okay. I'd like to give the

[4:32:31] Voice 21: remainder of my time to one of the other speakers. So my name is Maxine Leichter. I'm a member of the

[4:32:39] Voice 21: Friends of the Gulf Islands Society, but I'm speaking for myself, and I'm from Salt Spring

[4:32:43] Voice 21: Island. In February of 2022, Council received a governance report. In the two years since then,

[4:32:51] Voice 21: very few of the recommendations have been actually implemented. I want to highlight three

[4:32:57] Voice 21: of those recommendations. One is hiring a secretary, a person independent of trust staff,

[4:33:05] Voice 21: tasked only with advising you, the elected officials. All elected officials should have

[4:33:11] Voice 21: such independent advice to adequately represent their electorate. This is generally not done in

[4:33:18] Voice 21: BC, although I have heard that BC Housing has such a secretary. It is common elsewhere. Would you not

[4:33:26] Voice 21: want independent advice? Could you please tell us why this has not been a priority? Second, the

[4:33:34] Voice 21: governance report recommended that a management study be done. Many of you are elected on a

[4:33:39] Voice 21: platform of criticizing continual budget increases, yet two additional staff positions have been

[4:33:45] Voice 21: authorized rather than cutting the workload. A professional management report could reveal

[4:33:51] Voice 21: cost-saving changes to how the trust is managed. Why has this not been a priority? Third, the

[4:34:00] Voice 21: government's report recommended that carrying capacity studies be done of the islands to guide

[4:34:05] Voice 21: future growth so that that growth is consistent with protecting the environment, resources, and

[4:34:11] Voice 21: the rural character of the islands. Yet this is not even being proposed. Instead we hear that it

[4:34:18] Voice 21: is not possible to do carrying capacity studies. This is absolutely not correct. Future development

[4:34:27] Voice 21: is taking place but unguided by a study of where it should best go. Would it not be more respectful

[4:34:34] Voice 21: of the trust mandate to determine what population level at what location is consistent with

[4:34:40] Voice 21: with protecting water supplies

[4:34:42] Voice 21: and ecosystem resources of each island.

[4:34:45] Voice 21: Why is this not a priority?

[4:34:47] Voice 26: Thank you.

[4:34:52] Voice 26: Thank you.

[4:34:53] Voice 26: Liz Watson, Liz Watson.

[4:34:56] Trustee Luckham: Online, okay.

[4:34:58] Trustee Luckham: So I'm just going to go to the online speaker here

[4:35:02] Trustee Luckham: before we go to the next live person.

[4:35:04] Trustee Luckham: But if you want to take this place

[4:35:05] Trustee Luckham: that the microphone will be with you shortly.

[4:35:07] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so Liz Watson online,

[4:35:11] Trustee Luckham: you have the floor.

[4:35:14] Voice 2: Yes, thank you. Can you hear me? Yes.

[4:35:17] Voice 2: Thank you. I'm from Bowen Island. I just want to thank the Executive Committee for the decision to not approve the proposed changes to Bowen Island's official community plan and land use bylaw, which would have allowed Metro Vancouver to create a 100-site campsite at the southwest side of Bowen, which is now a residential community.

[4:35:36] Voice 2: And I just wanted to give you a bit of background as to how your decision affects us, like the local residents, from the perspective of capacity and safety.

[4:35:46] Voice 2: My husband and I have lived on White Sails Drive for 30 years, actually, and due to unfortunate past planning many years ago, White Sails Drive became the main conduit and the only access road to the Cape Roger Curtis lands.

[4:35:58] Voice 2: lands. Over 85 homes front this road. It is our neighborhood where children play and ride bikes

[4:36:06] Voice 2: and where parents take infants out on strollers and where seniors walk and pets are walked.

[4:36:11] Voice 2: It's where our neighbors connect. The prospect of a campsite at Cape Roger Curtis removed from

[4:36:18] Voice 2: the commercial hub of Snug Cove is very alarming for Tunstall Bay because the capacity to support

[4:36:24] Voice 2: any increase in traffic is limited by one narrow road in a very dense neighborhood. This is a safety

[4:36:31] Voice 2: issue of utmost concern which we have communicated to our local Bowen Island government and they have

[4:36:36] Voice 2: heard us but I'd like to reiterate the sentiment that there would be significant impacts on the

[4:36:41] Voice 2: local community if Metro Vancouver's plans went ahead. And also I just want to mention that on

[4:36:47] Voice 2: September 5th this year, so after your decision was made to not support, a wildfire broke out at

[4:36:54] Voice 2: Cape Roger Curtis which is one of the driest most at-risk areas on Bowen Island. It took Bowen

[4:37:00] Voice 2: Island fire and rescue four and a half hours to put out the blaze which was likely human caused

[4:37:05] Voice 2: and the water required to put out this fire was drawn from the Tunstall Bay reservoir

[4:37:10] Voice 2: because such water resources at the Cape do not exist. This drained Tunstall Bay's water resources

[4:37:17] Voice 2: and also due to the continuous water pressure required parts of the system were damaged.

[4:37:24] Voice 2: Our capacity to support any increased human activity at the Cape must not compromise neighbouring communities and residents that currently live there.

[4:37:33] Voice 2: It is a safety issue of utmost concern.

[4:37:35] Voice 2: So once again, I just want to thank you for your foresight and for listening to Bowen Islanders' concerns.

[4:37:42] Voice 2: Thank you.

[4:37:43] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, Liz.

[4:37:44] Trustee Luckham: So now we'll go back into the room.

[4:37:47] Trustee Luckham: If you might introduce yourself at the microphone there,

[4:37:49] Voice 26: please go ahead.

[4:37:54] Voice 26: My

[4:37:54] Voice 39: name is Carmita de Menijar.

[4:37:57] Voice 39: a member of the Friends of the Gulf Islands Society, and a resident of Galeano, but I am speaking for myself.

[4:38:09] Voice 39: Please, if you could listen with attention and tolerance, because English is my second language,

[4:38:18] Voice 39: it is a kind of disability when speaking in public.

[4:38:22] Voice 39: Yesterday, I read the 200 pages about housing in the agenda package.

[4:38:31] Voice 39: I look in vain for the word capacity as referred in the island trust governance review 2022.

[4:38:42] Voice 39: I will quote from page 4 of the review report.

[4:38:46] Voice 39: The land use planning function consumes nearly three quarters of the Island Trust's annual budget, and its activities have direct impact on virtually every resident of the Trust area.

[4:39:03] Voice 39: Yet, there is no comprehensive analysis of the tract's area capacity to sustain current

[4:39:13] Voice 39: population and activity, or its ability to accommodate more growth and development, especially

[4:39:22] Voice 39: in light of climate change and other considerations.

[4:39:26] Voice 39: Why have the people who prepared the documents in front of you on housing omitted the word

[4:39:37] Voice 39: capacity, as in the meaning of carrying capacity?

[4:39:41] Voice 39: Could it be that maybe one or more Gulf Islands have already arrived at the limit of sustainability?

[4:39:51] Voice 39: and that is not good news for advocating new housing of all kinds.

[4:40:01] Voice 39: Writing such reports about housing without considering carrying capacity

[4:40:07] Voice 39: is like an equation that lacks one variable.

[4:40:12] Voice 39: The result is a serious imbalance, a lack of credibility.

[4:40:18] Voice 39: This is especially true considering the Island Trust

[4:40:24] Trustee Luckham: mandate

[4:40:30] Voice 39: of protecting and preserving the environment.

[4:40:37] Voice 39: I will quote former trustee Steve Wright.

[4:40:42] Voice 39: Carrying capacity is defined as the maximum number of individuals that the environment can sustain without destroying or degrading it.

[4:40:54] Voice 39: To be fair, in the agenda package, there are mentions of undertake suitable land analysis, advocate for the provincial government to fund growth limits assessment, like groundwater availability studies.

[4:41:11] Voice 39: studies, and on page 335, under islands' trust background, poorly managed growth could

[4:41:21] Voice 39: strengthen the preservation and protection of the trust area.

[4:41:26] Voice 39: I would like to finish by giving you a frivolous example. A dinner party is prepared. A lot

[4:41:38] Voice 39: of time and money is spent in food research, ingredients, and the preparation of the menu.

[4:41:45] Voice 39: But the part is a failure because whoever was in charge forgot one variable of the question,

[4:41:54] Voice 39: the number of guests. The Island Trust is spending a lot of money and time on the use of housing,

[4:42:03] Voice 39: but it's forgetting a very important guest,

[4:42:09] Voice 39: carrying capacity.

[4:42:12] Voice 39: Will this Trust Council present a motion

[4:42:15] Voice 39: to ask for a science-based study

[4:42:20] Voice 39: of carrying capacity of the Trust area

[4:42:24] Voice 39: in order to be able to consider increasing housing

[4:42:28] Voice 39: in a rational way?

[4:42:30] Voice 39: Thank you very much.

[4:42:34] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much for coming in

[4:42:36] Trustee Luckham: presenting us today and you were very well spoken so thank you very much let's go to our next online

[4:42:44] Trustee Luckham: case libraries case longer ice hello case past trustee from uh gabriela island over to you case

[4:42:52] Trustee Luckham: okay

[4:42:53] Voice 1: uh can you hear me we

[4:42:55] Trustee Luckham: can great

[4:42:56] Voice 1: okay well thank you very much uh uh as i said i'm case

[4:43:00] Voice 1: Longerice and I'm from Gabriel Island and I'm going to be talking I've got about four things

[4:43:06] Voice 1: I want to mention I don't know if I'll get it all in but the two things I wrote about in October

[4:43:13] Voice 1: is were issues that were important to me and were not responded to and so I want to bring them up

[4:43:20] Voice 1: here in October I wrote to Chair Luckham to the CEO Hopkins Miller and the Director of Legislation

[4:43:30] Voice 1: and Dave Marler about the delays in videos, meeting videos being posted.

[4:43:37] Voice 1: What I noticed was there was extensive delays in getting them posted.

[4:43:42] Voice 1: In fact, September video, the Trust Council is still not posting.

[4:43:49] Voice 1: And this was not a new issue for me.

[4:43:51] Voice 1: I had raised it before in the past.

[4:43:54] Voice 1: And at that time, I was told it was partly due to the need to edit the video and staff time.

[4:44:04] Voice 1: I thought at the time, okay, well, maybe, you know, removing the meeting breaks from the video made sense.

[4:44:12] Voice 1: But that's not happening.

[4:44:14] Voice 1: You know, I know that they're still there.

[4:44:16] Voice 1: so my question really is what is the cause for the delays in posting the videos and is it due

[4:44:24] Voice 1: to editing of the videos and if it is what is being edited in the video so it's just a concern

[4:44:33] Voice 1: I have the other point I raised was about draft minutes for meetings right now the public has

[4:44:43] Voice 1: has access to it when the next agenda is posted.

[4:44:46] Voice 1: The next agenda is posted seven days

[4:44:50] Voice 1: or with trust council 10 days before the meeting.

[4:44:54] Voice 1: Yet the trust council policies 6.13,

[4:44:59] Voice 1: does the minutes are to be prepared

[4:45:02] Voice 1: within seven days of the meeting

[4:45:04] Voice 1: and followed up with a review by the chair of that meeting.

[4:45:09] Voice 1: So what happens now is that

[4:45:13] Voice 1: that this presumably will be occurring

[4:45:16] Voice 1: within about 10 days of the meeting,

[4:45:19] Voice 1: yet we end up having to wait weeks or months

[4:45:23] Voice 1: before we can see the draft minutes.

[4:45:27] Voice 1: And what I asked was whether it'd be possible

[4:45:31] Voice 1: for the draft minutes to be posted to them

[4:45:36] Voice 1: once they've been approved by the chair,

[4:45:39] Voice 1: or reviewed, I guess, not approved,

[4:45:42] Voice 1: post it to the meeting date applicable, the applicable meeting date.

[4:45:48] Voice 1: So you'd end up with the draft minutes along with the agenda for, say, January the 15th, within 10 days.

[4:45:57] Voice 1: When the next meeting occurs in February or March, you post the draft minutes as well on the agenda,

[4:46:06] Voice 1: But the public will have had access to that retroactive to 10 days of the initial meeting.

[4:46:14] Voice 1: It just allows for a more timely access to the meeting minutes.

[4:46:20] Voice 1: And I think that's important.

[4:46:21] Voice 1: People lose, with these delays, it's hard to stay informed in a timely fashion when this occurs.

[4:46:29] Voice 1: Those are the two things I wrote about and I have not received a response.

[4:46:33] Voice 1: one. The other two things, and I think I'm still in time, is more general. There's a lot of talk

[4:46:41] Voice 1: about OCP reviews and getting extensive public feedback, and I think that's great. But what I've

[4:46:48] Voice 1: noticed is there's little or no mention of the trust policy statement in this context. So I pose

[4:46:56] Voice 1: a question. There's TPS policy 553 says OCPs are to prohibit destination gambling facilities.

[4:47:07] Voice 1: So if you're doing the current OCP review, and the OCP doesn't prohibit such facilities,

[4:47:15] Voice 1: is the expectation that the review will include such a provision, or at least provide reasons as

[4:47:22] Voice 1: as to why it isn't included.

[4:47:25] Voice 1: And this is based on the trust policy statement about that.

[4:47:29] Voice 1: And secondly, if the revised OCP does neither,

[4:47:35] Voice 1: will EC not approve the bylaw

[4:47:37] Voice 1: because it is not consistent with the TPS policy?

[4:47:42] Voice 1: Well, that's a question I got.

[4:47:45] Voice 1: Lastly, it's about the TPS itself.

[4:47:49] Voice 1: And what I've noticed is the differences

[4:47:53] Voice 1: between the Trust Council commitments and directives.

[4:47:56] Voice 1: For example, Trust Council Commitment 3.1.1

[4:48:02] Voice 1: states planning must account for the cumulative effects

[4:48:06] Voice 1: of existing and proposed development

[4:48:08] Voice 1: to avoid detrimental effects on watersheds, etc.

[4:48:13] Voice 1: However, there's no comparable local Trust Committee directive.

[4:48:18] Voice 1: In this case, Trust Council has a policy

[4:48:23] Voice 1: that clearly relates to the authority of LTC and staff,

[4:48:28] Voice 1: yet that position is not extended to LTCs, why?

[4:48:33] Voice 1: And I asked this because the trust policy statement says,

[4:48:37] Voice 1: local trust committees only need to meet the directives

[4:48:41] Voice 1: and not other policies in the TPS,

[4:48:44] Voice 1: which would ostensibly include

[4:48:46] Voice 1: any trust council commitments that may relate to their work.

[4:48:51] Voice 1: And I don't understand this.

[4:48:53] Voice 1: i just i hope that this will be looked at in the tps review thank

[4:48:59] Trustee Luckham: you thanks you've gone a bit

[4:49:00] Trustee Luckham: over time there but that's your presentation today um we'll have to review the recording here the

[4:49:07] Trustee Luckham: minutes to perhaps provide you some answers there but i do know that there's some editing issues

[4:49:11] Trustee Luckham: with the video uh the minutes uh process is uh confounded with the resources and and there's

[4:49:19] Trustee Luckham: some improvements also coming through policy, and I don't have any answers for the next two,

[4:49:23] Trustee Luckham: but we can certainly have a look at that. I'm going to come back into the room here now for

[4:49:28] Trustee Luckham: the next person to take the microphone. Please introduce yourself.

[4:49:34] Voice 43: Good afternoon. I'm Jennifer

[4:49:37] Voice 43: Margeson from Galliano Island, and I'm speaking for the Friends of the Gulf Islands Society.

[4:49:44] Voice 43: At the beginning of November, the Friends of the Gulf Islands Society wrote a letter of concern

[4:49:49] Voice 43: to the trust council and to the chair of the governance committee regarding the closed meeting

[4:49:55] Voice 43: decision made at the last trust council meeting in september on the interpretation of the object

[4:50:02] Voice 43: of the trust and specifically an interpretation of unique amenities or a definition of unique

[4:50:10] Voice 43: amenities this letter is in your agenda package i want to this afternoon further emphasize

[4:50:19] Voice 43: by speaking to you our objections on the how and the what of this decision first the how

[4:50:27] Voice 43: an in-camera meeting to discuss the interpretation of the object of the trust was held the very first

[4:50:36] Voice 43: morning of the three-day trust council meeting and is described in the minutes of that meeting

[4:50:42] Voice 43: as a, quote, closed working session for the, quote, receipt of advice that is subject to

[4:50:50] Voice 43: solicitor-client privilege, unquote, and where the trust, quote, discussed in-camera legal opinions

[4:50:58] Voice 43: on section three, unquote. A review of legal opinions can certainly be a legitimate reason

[4:51:06] Voice 43: for a closed meeting. However, the minutes go on to say that during this meeting, the Trust Council

[4:51:13] Voice 43: discussed and came to conclusions on how Section 3 would be interpreted. The object of the Trust Act

[4:51:22] Voice 43: is the foundation of all that the Trust stands for and does. We strongly object to a trustee

[4:51:32] Voice 43: discussion and decision on a subject so integral to the entire operation of the trust being made

[4:51:41] Voice 43: in a meeting closed to the public. Trust counsel could have issued a rise in report that said

[4:51:49] Voice 43: at a time for a subsequent open meeting during which they could either allow reference to legal

[4:51:56] Voice 43: opinions or restrict this reference. They did not do so. It is stated in a statement that is still

[4:52:06] Voice 43: not part of any general news release to the public that the consensus reached on this interpretation

[4:52:14] Voice 43: will build the trust's strategic direction and that policy initiatives, project priorities,

[4:52:21] Voice 43: efficiency of operations, accountability, and performance measures will follow.

[4:52:29] Voice 43: Yet, the public has been denied the opportunity to hear the views

[4:52:35] Voice 43: and to know the voting record of their elected representatives

[4:52:40] Voice 43: on an interpretation that fundamentally impacts how the purpose of the trust is carried out.

[4:52:49] Voice 43: My second point is the what.

[4:52:52] Voice 43: the reinterpretation of the object. Friends of the Gulf Islands are strong supporters of the

[4:53:00] Voice 43: Islands Trust as a unique and special conservation focused organization. Therefore, we feel that the

[4:53:11] Voice 43: interpretation of the object, specifically the definition of the concept of the unique amenities

[4:53:19] Voice 43: in the object, as described in the statement released to the public, is an ill-considered

[4:53:27] Voice 43: distortion of the object. The statement refers to unique amenities as broad-ranging and may include

[4:53:37] Voice 43: such issues as housing, livelihoods, infrastructure, and tourism. These are in no way

[4:53:48] Voice 43: unique amenities of the Trust area. In fact, in 1986, there was a report from the Ministry of

[4:53:59] Voice 43: Municipal Affairs endorsed by the Islands Trust Council. That report, entitled The Object of the

[4:54:10] Voice 43: Islands Trust, Renewing the Consensus, stated that the special amenities and environment of

[4:54:17] Voice 43: the trust area derived from the combination of a number of features truly unique to the trust area

[4:54:24] Voice 43: among them tranquil rural areas solitude scenic beauty a clean environment almost a continuous

[4:54:32] Voice 43: tree cover and large undeveloped areas diverse and unusual natural features numerous areas of

[4:54:39] Voice 43: heritage and archaeological significance and a unique water supply none of these truly unique

[4:54:48] Voice 43: trust area features or amenities receive mention in your statement if housing and infrastructure

[4:54:55] Voice 43: are amenities then please explain what is unique about the trust area if these amenities as trust

[4:55:03] Voice 43: council have defined them are to be preserved and protected along with the environment

[4:55:08] Voice 43: then how do trustees determine the limits of development?

[4:55:14] Voice 43: By including these new subjects as amenities

[4:55:17] Voice 43: and equating them with the environment,

[4:55:20] Voice 43: how is the trust now relevant as a special purpose government?

[4:55:26] Voice 43: How is the trust still a trust?

[4:55:30] Voice 43: We respectfully request answers to the questions in our letters.

[4:55:36] Voice 43: Thank you.

[4:55:36] Voice 43: you

[4:55:37] Trustee Luckham: uh well thank you for being here today and thank you for your letters and um it's certainly

[4:55:42] Trustee Luckham: an ongoing conversation um and hopefully some answers will come to you um in the room one more

[4:55:49] Trustee Luckham: speaker i believe your turn

[4:55:52] Voice 26: there's

[4:55:54] Voice 11: no other online

[4:55:56] Voice 26: and uh five minutes if you don't mind

[4:55:59] Voice 26: good afternoon councillors

[4:56:19] Voice 35: my name is michael sketch and i'm from north pender island

[4:56:22] Voice 35: I'll return to Jennifer's first topic, the Islands Trust Object, but this time the Islands

[4:56:29] Voice 35: Trust Object, imperative or piety?

[4:56:35] Voice 35: In a governance study two terms ago, trust staff and councillors were interviewed by

[4:56:42] Voice 35: the great Northern management consultants.

[4:56:44] Voice 35: Each interviewed affirmed their own agreement with the preserve and protect trust object.

[4:56:52] Voice 35: But is that agreement followed by the same commitment in staff report advice to decision makers and to trust decisions on changes in land use?

[4:57:06] Voice 35: In my own experience, I can't recall a single LTC decision on changes in land use which turn on an explicit trust object rationale.

[4:57:18] Voice 35: The public is left to hope that an object rationale was implicit.

[4:57:27] Voice 35: On one hand, the Conservancy Board is exemplary in preserving and protecting the natural environment.

[4:57:36] Voice 35: However, there have been too many local trust committee decisions where land use changes have been approved,

[4:57:42] Voice 35: which offended either the interest of the natural environment or provincial law or both.

[4:57:50] Voice 35: For example, by provincial law, I mean the conflict of bylaws, Section 46 of the Agricultural Land Commission Act.

[4:58:00] Voice 35: in that the trust object requires both that the trust area environment be preserved and protected

[4:58:07] Voice 35: and the trust cooperate with provincial agencies,

[4:58:14] Voice 35: therefore such contrary LTC decisions also offend the object.

[4:58:22] Voice 35: The Islands Trust Act is explicit.

[4:58:25] Voice 35: Section 3 gives the trust object,

[4:58:28] Voice 35: And the very next section four requires that trust decision makers carry out, that is, implement the trust object.

[4:58:38] Voice 35: That statutory imperative must take precedence when, for instance,

[4:58:44] Voice 35: trust executive reviews local draft bylaws for compliance with the policy statement.

[4:58:52] Voice 35: That is, a draft bylaw mustn't offend the object either.

[4:58:57] Voice 35: they are separate criteria complementary optimistically may this trust council guide

[4:59:06] Voice 35: staff advice and trust decision making in order that that effectively implementing the object

[4:59:13] Voice 35: is seen to be a statutory imperative rather than a mere piety thank

[4:59:20] Voice 26: you thank

[4:59:26] Trustee Luckham: you very much michael

[4:59:26] Trustee Luckham: i believe that concludes our public comment period there's no other speakers online or in

[4:59:32] Trustee Luckham: the room i want to thank you for all for making the journey here i know it's some distance to

[4:59:35] Trustee Luckham: come from the islands and we do appreciate that so i'm going we've got uh about 25 minutes or so

[4:59:44] Trustee Luckham: to continue on with some business here until we get to 215 for our san juan county operation so

[4:59:52] Trustee Luckham: i'd like to turn this back now to the chair of financial planning committee

[4:59:57] Trustee Luckham: and perhaps i'll just prompt

[4:59:59] Trustee Luckham: on.

[5:00:00] Trustee Luckham: to ask how it is that he wants to proceed through these numerous items i identified one two three

[5:00:06] Trustee Luckham: four five major sections here um um in order to conclude this session today over to you sir

[5:00:15] Trustee Luckham: all right well

[5:00:17] Trustee Bernardo: i would like to simply continue the discussion we had before

[5:00:20] Trustee Bernardo: because we have you know with whatever time we have allotted we were in the middle of discussion

[5:00:25] Trustee Bernardo: discussing um some preliminary remarks really about the uh the salt spring office relocation

[5:00:31] Trustee Bernardo: business case right and what emerged from that was um uh that there are underlying that there

[5:00:40] Trustee Bernardo: are strategic questions to be answered uh the business case is premised on the idea that it's

[5:00:47] Trustee Bernardo: preferable to simply relocate the office and continue business as usual but the scale of the

[5:00:53] Trustee Bernardo: change of business there and the scale of uh the expense as the business case refers to uh in

[5:01:01] Trustee Bernardo: in passing are such that there needs to be a strategic, I think, analysis in the part of FPC

[5:01:08] Trustee Bernardo: and also Trust Council about what we really want to do there. And that should be the major thing

[5:01:16] Trustee Bernardo: that is driving what the financial decision is. I don't know what the right outcome should be,

[5:01:21] Trustee Bernardo: but I mean, I think what I'm saying is we need to have that discussion. Now, it's not for me to

[5:01:27] Trustee Bernardo: condition the rest of the remarks, but I anticipate we'll definitely have that discussion

[5:01:31] Trustee Bernardo: and the FPC at some point.

[5:01:34] Trustee Bernardo: But I want to leave the floor open for people to make whatever comments they have

[5:01:37] Trustee Bernardo: and have their questions answered with respect to that and other budgetary issues.

[5:01:43] Trustee Bernardo: And as I mentioned before, any business cases that they specifically care about

[5:01:46] Trustee Bernardo: and want addressed.

[5:01:48] Trustee Bernardo: So I'd like to leave the floor open to further comment.

[5:01:52] Trustee Bernardo: Okay.

[5:01:52] Trustee Bernardo: From

[5:01:53] Voice 25: before lunch, we had Trustees Patrick, Yates, and Borthwick.

[5:01:57] Voice 25: So we'll start out with Trustee Patrick.

[5:02:02] Trustee Patrick: We're jumping around.

[5:02:03] Trustee Patrick: round. So I wanted to talk about another item on the housing needs assessment and some information

[5:02:10] Trustee Patrick: that would be nice to have to help us further the business case. Do you want to hear that now?

[5:02:15] Trustee Patrick: Is that the idea?

[5:02:19] Trustee Bernardo: I think if you're next in line, you get to say whatever you want.

[5:02:23] Trustee Patrick: All right. Sorry to be jumping around. So that's item 72245, which was the

[5:02:32] Trustee Patrick: the housing needs assessments in the islands.

[5:02:35] Trustee Patrick: I do have a resolution that I sent into the motion email.

[5:02:41] Trustee Patrick: I think there's an opportunity,

[5:02:42] Trustee Patrick: the province indicated that funding would be provided

[5:02:47] Trustee Patrick: out of the $51 million fund that they created

[5:02:50] Trustee Patrick: for the effect of the new regulations.

[5:02:53] Trustee Patrick: And I think there's an opportunity

[5:02:55] Trustee Patrick: to further that conversation.

[5:02:59] Trustee Patrick: I understand staff have had some preliminary conversations

[5:03:02] Trustee Patrick: that look positive but i'd like to push that with a written confirmation so i did send in a motion

[5:03:07] Trustee Patrick: i don't know if that needs to be up on the screen or i can just read it there it is um i'll i'll

[5:03:13] Trustee Patrick: just throw it out there i'm that trust council requests staff to seek written confirmation that

[5:03:17] Trustee Patrick: the province will fund the initiatives to prepare new housing needs reports or to amend the housing

[5:03:22] Trustee Patrick: needs reports to meet the new legislative requirements for the interim report on housing

[5:03:27] Voice 26: needs okay

[5:03:33] Trustee Luckham: motion duly moved and seconded yours to speak to further um i

[5:03:38] Trustee Patrick: just think it's it's

[5:03:40] Trustee Patrick: in the last few weeks as the debates were occurring around the uh all the legislation

[5:03:44] Trustee Patrick: that the province is bringing the gulf islands and the islands trust were mentioned many times

[5:03:49] Trustee Patrick: and i think we are unique in that we are going to have to update i don't know how many housing

[5:03:56] Trustee Patrick: needs assessments a lot more than most of the average communities and i think we should you

[5:04:01] Trustee Patrick: be on record requesting that i understand there was a favorable response but i think more the more

[5:04:05] Trustee Patrick: they hear from us the more they're going to remember us um

[5:04:10] Trustee Luckham: all right um so chair is it okay

[5:04:13] Trustee Luckham: if i manage this do you want to manage it okay um so i'm just going to remark that um i don't know

[5:04:21] Trustee Luckham: this is actually assisting the budget process here and advancing the budget but that's okay

[5:04:25] Trustee Luckham: um uh this is uh advocating the province to provide us some information which will obviously

[5:04:31] Trustee Luckham: to inform our budgetary needs is what i'm assuming there's a hundred

[5:04:35] Trustee Patrick: thousand dollars being requested

[5:04:37] Trustee Patrick: in the budget to fund the housing needs assessment so this is directly related absolutely

[5:04:42] Trustee Luckham: um yep and

[5:04:46] Trustee Luckham: so there's a motion on the floor is there any further discussion deb morrison yeah

[5:04:52] Voice 4: i'm in favor

[5:04:53] Voice 4: of this motion um because yeah it's actually about 280 000 for my um calculations in staff and money

[5:05:01] Voice 4: related to housing that's in the current budget.

[5:05:04] Voice 4: So it is actually, I think critical

[5:05:06] Voice 4: that we get these numbers up to date

[5:05:07] Voice 4: and we have accurate data.

[5:05:08] Voice 6: Thank you.

[5:05:11] Voice 26: Trustee Harris online.

[5:05:15] Voice 26: Thank you.

[5:05:17] Voice 26: I'm

[5:05:17] Voice 15: a little bit confused by this motion.

[5:05:21] Voice 15: I see this, a request for housing needs assessment.

[5:05:30] Voice 15: We actually need to assess

[5:05:33] Voice 15: that we need housing at this point.

[5:05:35] Voice 15: Downs Trust is known for many years,

[5:05:38] Voice 15: There's been consultant after consultant brought in

[5:05:40] Voice 15: for the last couple of decades.

[5:05:44] Voice 15: So I'm kind of confused.

[5:05:46] Voice 15: Maybe somebody could, or the person making the motion

[5:05:50] Voice 15: could explain this a bit better.

[5:05:52] Voice 15: Do we, are we trying to find out that we need housing?

[5:05:54] Voice 15: Is that the purpose of this or am I mistaken here?

[5:06:00] Voice 15: Thank you.

[5:06:01] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick.

[5:06:02] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Harris, I absolutely agree

[5:06:05] Trustee Patrick: that do we need more reports?

[5:06:06] Trustee Patrick: Unfortunately, some legislation was passed last week in BC that legislates that we must do these reports.

[5:06:14] Trustee Patrick: This motion is basically asking the province to pay for us to do those reports instead of us taxing our residents.

[5:06:24] Voice 26: No other speakers or questions?

[5:06:30] Voice 26: Let's call the vote then. All those in favor of the motion on the screen, I'll just get you to lower your hands.

[5:06:42] Voice 26: And are there any opposed?

[5:06:45] Voice 26: We

[5:06:45] Voice 11: have one opposed.

[5:06:47] Voice 11: So thank you very much,

[5:06:49] Trustee Luckham: trustees.

[5:06:52] Trustee Luckham: I'm back to the chair to how you want to pursue

[5:06:54] Trustee Luckham: the rest of this conversation here.

[5:06:57] Trustee Luckham: Well, the way I want to, you know,

[5:06:59] Trustee Bernardo: we've heard from Trustee Patrick,

[5:07:00] Trustee Bernardo: let's hear from the next trustee.

[5:07:02] Trustee Bernardo: So Trustee Yates.

[5:07:05] Voice 20: Thank you.

[5:07:06] Voice 20: I want to thank CAO Hotzenpiller

[5:07:10] Voice 20: for the pretty good description

[5:07:12] Voice 20: of how they're trying to figure out

[5:07:15] Voice 20: the Salt Spring Island office relocation.

[5:07:19] Voice 20: And I don't consider $210,000 crazy

[5:07:25] Voice 20: because it's an estimate.

[5:07:28] Voice 20: And if you underestimate and then come back later

[5:07:31] Voice 20: needing a lot more, we're going to be in trouble.

[5:07:34] Voice 20: So thank you for that.

[5:07:36] Voice 20: I would like to say one thing about past councils

[5:07:41] Voice 20: councils always trying to play catch up with the budget. And I think it was Trustee Graham that

[5:07:50] Voice 20: mentioned last year, some other local governments had large increases in their taxation requests.

[5:07:57] Voice 20: Some of them actually were double digit, and they will be this year too. So we should keep that in

[5:08:04] Voice 20: mind. And the other thing I wanted to mention was that how difficult it is for us to get our work

[5:08:10] Voice 20: done and for staff to help us do our work when they're constantly short staffed and how hard

[5:08:18] Voice 20: that is on morale on the actual work being done and how much it costs us in the end thank you

[5:08:27] Voice 25: trustee elliott thanks

[5:08:31] Voice 29: i didn't know i was still on the list but um i wanted to

[5:08:35] Voice 29: pull actually the strategic planning projects for discussion sorry i was tending to my knitting

[5:08:45] Voice 26: as

[5:08:45] Voice 29: i was listening it actually helps me listen um sorry strategic planning because there's there's

[5:08:55] Voice 29: two uh fresh water related projects in there that don't have any funding um promised and and

[5:09:02] Voice 29: basically that part of the budget looks really thin um and so i thank

[5:09:11] Voice 26: you yeah

[5:09:12] Voice 29: maybe come back

[5:09:13] Voice 29: okay

[5:09:13] Voice 25: so we're over trustee passed

[5:09:27] Trustee Fast: thank you um trustees i would like to uh

[5:09:31] Trustee Fast: make a request of financial planning committee i think is what it'll be and this relates to a

[5:09:39] Trustee Fast: conversation i had at lunchtime with director mobs so she can correct me if i'm mistaken but

[5:09:47] Trustee Fast: this relates to the 22.9 percent increase expected for bowen island and in talking to

[5:09:56] Trustee Fast: Two, Director Mobs, I gather that part of that may be due to the Salt Spring office relocation expense having to be allocated to general surplus, which Bowen contributes to, but we could not benefit from the Salt Spring Island relocation amount.

[5:10:20] Trustee Fast: amount and i've got a couple of policies open and i'd like to read them but maybe uh director mobs

[5:10:25] Trustee Fast: could you um is that correct uh

[5:10:29] Voice 42: largely correct i'll just provide a point of clarity um there's

[5:10:32] Voice 42: two hundred and ten thousand dollars being drawn from the general revenue surplus fund in this

[5:10:37] Voice 42: draft of the budget we are required to allocate funds that we draw from surplus so those funds

[5:10:43] Voice 42: are being allocated to the salt spring island office relocation because that is a purely planning

[5:10:48] Voice 42: staff office there's no other staff there that is a planning cost and so based on the

[5:10:53] Voice 42: municipal requisition Bowen Island does not is not afforded any credits from that draw from surplus

[5:10:59] Trustee Fast: then if I can continue um I looked at the financial policies uh for example policy 6.5.1

[5:11:09] Trustee Fast: um b 3.2 um says uh this is the reserves and surplus policy and it says that when you've got a

[5:11:23] Trustee Fast: one time or an intermittent or a big um uh expense then you can dip into the general surplus

[5:11:31] Trustee Fast: and i can read it out if people want me to do that and then um i also looked at 6.5.2

[5:11:40] Trustee Fast: policy and this is budget control and adjustment authority and there's one in there called c5

[5:11:48] Trustee Fast: you find that and uh and this policy relates to um fairness among ltcs i think anyway it says

[5:12:01] Trustee Fast: in cases where there's a recommendation to transfer funds uh budget funds associated with

[5:12:08] Trustee Fast: With a particular LTC, from that LTC to another LTC area, local trust area, the LTC must pass a resolution approving the transfer.

[5:12:15] Trustee Fast: And it seems to me that the fairness and consultation sort of elements of if Bowen contributes to a fund, can there be consideration for Bowen when those funds are allocated to a service that Bowen doesn't benefit from?

[5:12:41] Trustee Fast: And so I would like to request Financial Planning Committee to consider Bowen's position and the amount of our increase this year, the fairness aspect, and perhaps maybe amending a policy, adding a policy.

[5:13:05] Trustee Fast: policy because this has come up a couple times where funds are taken out of general revenue and

[5:13:10] Trustee Fast: it really affects Bowen's amount to be that our taxpayers would have to pay so I'm not prepared

[5:13:21] Trustee Fast: to make a specific motion because I haven't gone over this with anybody or just looking at the

[5:13:27] Trustee Fast: policies now but perhaps if I'm just going to pass that on as input to the financial planning

[5:13:34] Trustee Fast: Committee. Thank

[5:13:35] Voice 26: you. Trustee Evans.

[5:13:41] Trustee Evans: Thank you. So I'm looking at page 152, the summary of data

[5:13:48] Trustee Evans: for budget discussion. This was prepared at the behest of Financial Planning Committee,

[5:13:54] Trustee Evans: and it does say that it's not being reviewed by Financial Planning Committee. I would like to

[5:14:00] Trustee Evans: advise staff that I don't think the information that's being captured here was quite what we had

[5:14:05] Trustee Evans: requested but it is going to be vital for the budget planning process the information that

[5:14:12] Trustee Evans: we were looking for was a list of the active projects the percent to completion that they're

[5:14:19] Trustee Evans: at the amount of monies required to finish them over what period of time and we were looking to

[5:14:26] Trustee Evans: identify vacancies and gaps that would impact those projects um and any um project deliverables

[5:14:35] Trustee Evans: and risks to project deliverables is what we were looking for and i don't think that was quite

[5:14:40] Trustee Evans: captured in this report so i just wanted to bring that to staff's attention because we will be

[5:14:45] Trustee Evans: looking for that information i think for our next financial planning meeting thank you and that

[5:14:52] Voice 25: That, Trustee Elliott.

[5:14:54] Voice 29: Thank you.

[5:14:56] Voice 29: I'm not prepared to speak to the Salt Spring relocation project.

[5:14:59] Voice 29: I think there's just insufficient information right now,

[5:15:03] Voice 29: and we need to see that again when it's going to come back.

[5:15:06] Voice 29: So the two areas that I would like to ask questions about is,

[5:15:09] Voice 29: so 145 on the general budget draft, the strategic plan projects,

[5:15:16] Voice 29: there's two line items, freshwater sustainability strategy

[5:15:20] Voice 29: and groundwater recharge mapping, which are longstanding strategic initiatives that are not budgeted for anything.

[5:15:32] Voice 29: And so I just want to confirm that the only funding for freshwater mapping would be if the Gabriela OCP project receives that $50,000 for the groundwater recharge mapping, which would become the, that's developing the methodology for the rest of the Islands Trust area.

[5:15:55] Voice 29: area. So basically, we've got no money in the budget for that strategic initiative. I just want

[5:16:02] Voice 29: to confirm that. That's my first question. And the second one is Salt Spring Island.

[5:16:10] Voice 29: Trustee Patrick, you said that the complete communities grant that staff had gotten

[5:16:15] Voice 29: will go towards sort of laying the groundwork for the OCP and LUB work. We're now seeing for

[5:16:23] Voice 29: the third year a carryover is that correct of about 150 000 from when the project was started

[5:16:31] Voice 29: two years ago and now no money was spent this year and now we're carrying it over we have a project

[5:16:38] Voice 29: or a budget for next year but weighing out we've got a complete communities grant now

[5:16:45] Voice 29: Now, is there a possibility of reducing that budget amount for the OCP review, which $96,000, I think, is in there?

[5:16:59] Voice 29: Not that I want to take away from the project, but if that step is being funded through the Complete Communities Grant, then is it being double budgeted?

[5:17:09] Voice 29: i

[5:17:11] Trustee Patrick: probably looked at staff more but i know the complete community grant has some restrictions

[5:17:15] Trustee Patrick: it cannot be the money is not being spent on ocp work it's sort of the data input and uh

[5:17:23] Trustee Patrick: initiating the the conversations but they can't they can't cross over and maybe staff could

[5:17:27] Trustee Patrick: could uh talk about that more um frustrated in um spending of projects and managing of projects on

[5:17:36] Trustee Patrick: on salt spring hopefully in our last local trust committee staff did bring us at least a road map

[5:17:43] Trustee Patrick: we are looking for work plans and more details to understand the work is actually going to get done

[5:17:47] Trustee Patrick: but these are this is a big project but the complete community grant has a really short

[5:17:53] Trustee Patrick: window it's got to be done pretty quick

[5:17:56] Voice 25: so director cermak or director mobs you want to

[5:18:03] Voice 25: jump in sure

[5:18:04] Voice 18: i'll add to that so uh trustee patrick is correct that the complete communities

[5:18:08] Voice 18: grant can't be used for the OCP amending. It can't be used for

[5:18:12] Voice 18: drafting and it can only be used to assess the infrastructure

[5:18:15] Voice 18: and requirements to create complete communities as defined in the

[5:18:20] Voice 18: grant. And so as I understand the current status of

[5:18:24] Voice 18: SALTSPIN projects, that's going to prime the work

[5:18:27] Voice 18: of the OCP amendment. They're not going to necessarily go completely sequential,

[5:18:32] Voice 18: complete communities grant, then OCP amendment. They are going to work in

[5:18:35] Voice 18: in some parallel but of course by necessity of the information they're going to get that

[5:18:40] Voice 18: research isn't going to inform the process so that is what trustee patrick was talking about

[5:18:44] Voice 18: in terms of they it took them a while to really sort that out because the complete communities

[5:18:48] Voice 18: grant um just you know was became available at the end of the summer and it has to be done

[5:18:53] Voice 18: by the end of next summer august 24th that leaves the deadline so

[5:19:00] Voice 29: has has there been a conversation

[5:19:01] Voice 29: about reducing the budgeted amount for the bylaw review for this year, understanding that some of

[5:19:08] Voice 29: that work is going to be, it's preparatory, I get it, it can't be done for the OCP review, but

[5:19:14] Voice 29: seeing as there's been a year and a half of delays, we haven't had that conversation yet

[5:19:18] Voice 29: at the LTC or Regional Planning Committee?

[5:19:25] Trustee Patrick: Well, how I understand it is the money's been taxed.

[5:19:29] Trustee Patrick: It's the project delivery that's been a bit challenged. And I think as we go into

[5:19:33] Trustee Patrick: to reviewing our corporate planning and everything that we're doing is a lot of these projects cannot

[5:19:37] Trustee Patrick: be done in a one-year cycle but yet our budget cycle requires that we request funds in a one-year

[5:19:43] Trustee Patrick: cycle so um i think we're learning a lot on salt spring and trying to manage large projects in this

[5:19:50] Trustee Patrick: you know what the future might look like but uh right now staff are indicating that they're going

[5:19:55] Trustee Patrick: to spend this money um trusting staff that they that this is going to happen next year um so

[5:20:01] Trustee Patrick: So that's all I can say.

[5:20:03] Voice 26: Dr. Mobs?

[5:20:09] Voice 42: Yeah, so when we prepare our forecasts,

[5:20:12] Voice 42: we do take a look at what projects are not going to fully spend their budgets in a year.

[5:20:16] Voice 42: And if that work will carry over into the next fiscal year,

[5:20:19] Voice 42: we do draw those unspent funds from surplus in the year following.

[5:20:23] Voice 42: So the only two projects that were identified for that approach in this draft of the budget

[5:20:29] Voice 42: are two projects for Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee for procedural updates,

[5:20:33] Voice 42: the OCP and land use bylaws

[5:20:35] Voice 42: and the Ganges Village area planning.

[5:20:42] Voice 25: The freshwater question.

[5:20:46] Voice 29: So there's no budget for freshwater

[5:20:49] Voice 29: or groundwater recharge mapping

[5:20:51] Voice 29: in the strategic plan projects.

[5:20:57] Voice 29: And so I just want to confirm that that's nowhere else.

[5:21:00] Voice 29: Sorry, that's nowhere else in the budget

[5:21:01] Voice 29: unless we do a project on Gabriela

[5:21:04] Voice 29: and the funds are approved for that.

[5:21:07] Voice 29: That's where it shows up.

[5:21:09] Voice 18: Excellent. Yeah, through the chair. So you're correct that the no budget made it to the regional planning committee for their support to then bring to this table or via the FPC.

[5:21:17] Voice 18: However, there has been support from the executive committee to apply for a grant to get that work done.

[5:21:24] Voice 18: Right. And so unfortunately, that information is not here presented to you today because we took the executive committee and then we're running with that on the side.

[5:21:32] Voice 18: So we don't know the results of that, but we have to report back when we when we hear back.

[5:21:37] Voice 18: So that's the hope, is that that carries over the bulk of helping the current LTCs doing OCP project work that have water-related issues.

[5:21:46] Voice 18: Ornby, Denman, pardon me, not Ornby, Denman, Gabriel, I forget the other ones that are going to do it.

[5:21:53] Voice 18: They would be included in that so that, you know, Gabriel is not left alone.

[5:21:58] Voice 18: Trustee Morris.

[5:22:00] Voice 4: I think I might have had my question just answered.

[5:22:02] Voice 4: It was about the water-related issues.

[5:22:05] Voice 4: But just to be clear, the funding that you're talking about, the maybe I4 related to water sustainability mapping, that's not about a methodology necessarily, because some of that work has been done in the Southern Gulf Island effort.

[5:22:18] Voice 4: It's about the mapping itself of like pulling the data sets together and getting them like refined for the Northern Islands.

[5:22:26] Voice 18: Thank you again. It is actually a little bit to refine the process.

[5:22:29] Voice 18: It was, you know, some issues about the process where you always learn going through this.

[5:22:33] Voice 18: you know that's what science is so that is being reinvestigated reapplied and then getting a better

[5:22:39] Voice 18: product at the end of the day

[5:22:41] Voice 26: trustable um

[5:22:45] Voice 41: i just wanted to talk about two things one is

[5:22:49] Voice 41: what was prepared here in the budget um summary of data that was prepared at quite short notice

[5:22:58] Voice 41: it was a very short time frame and trustee mods agreed to do it based on the information that

[5:23:06] Voice 41: she had it and I think there was leave and other meetings involved but yes you know what

[5:23:12] Voice 41: Trustee Evans has requested would make life easier and better but if that's to be prepared

[5:23:19] Voice 41: it needs to be discussed in some detail like what's required and whether it's feasible.

[5:23:26] Voice 41: I think the next financial planning meeting is at the third week in January. So then moving on

[5:23:33] Voice 41: in this particular report I think staff vacancies and turnover is quite a you know stands out and

[5:23:43] Voice 41: maybe we have to discuss it in camera but I do think it has an impact on the budget our ability

[5:23:52] Voice 41: to deliver we have you know you know it's a bit of a risky strategy to take 170 000 out of the

[5:24:02] Voice 41: the budget which we did last year to acknowledge that there's a certain level of vacancy that we

[5:24:08] Voice 41: run with what happens the year that we accidentally manage to fill every position and on top of that

[5:24:16] Voice 41: you know we've applied we have approved new positions but approving new positions and there

[5:24:22] Voice 41: are two new again this year and if we can't fill those vacancies and stabilize the situation

[5:24:30] Voice 41: then all our plans are not going to work out and it's not about money it's about

[5:24:38] Voice 41: resources and understanding what resources we have what we're likely to have and understanding

[5:24:46] Voice 41: and cutting work when the resources are not available thanks trustee harris

[5:24:58] Voice 26: thank you

[5:25:00] Voice 26: Just to go back to

[5:25:02] Voice 15: the OCP project on Saltspring, do we really need that much money?

[5:25:10] Voice 15: I think a reduction in that dollar value would be, I would welcome that and many others think it's a fine thing to do.

[5:25:24] Voice 15: We have a housing crisis.

[5:25:26] Voice 15: I hate to go on and on about it, but it's a reality.

[5:25:31] Voice 15: and really we just need to amend the housing section of the OCP to actually have something

[5:25:35] Voice 15: done here and we need to do that quickly. I'd be in support of reducing that rate or that number

[5:25:45] Voice 26: designated for the OCP project. Thank you. Trustee Getty. On page

[5:25:54] Voice 33: 158 at the bottom there's a

[5:25:56] Voice 33: regional planning committee housing needs report $110,000 with BIM contributing and at the next

[5:26:04] Voice 33: paragraph on the next page it says that produce housing needs reports for all

[5:26:09] Voice 33: local trust areas except Bowen Island municipality and Salt Spring Island so

[5:26:13] Voice 33: I'd like the financial planning and I believe if I remember correctly and I

[5:26:18] Voice 33: need to double check our planning staff are working on the housing report for

[5:26:23] Voice 33: Bowen so if we probably is not a significant amount but if that could be

[5:26:28] Voice 33: double check.

[5:26:32] Voice 26: And that concludes the speaker's list. Sorry, could

[5:26:37] Voice 42: I, Trustee Getty, ask you to

[5:26:38] Voice 42: repeat which project was that you're looking at?

[5:26:44] Voice 26: The Regional Planning Committee Housing Needs

[5:26:47] Voice 26: Report. Thank you. What page is that referenced on? Bottom of 158. Thank you.

[5:27:05] Voice 26: The

[5:27:06] Voice 33: toolkit is something that I think we can all use, and that's been contributing to that

[5:27:12] Voice 33: that $30,000, it's the one above that.

[5:27:22] Trustee Bernardo: The headings at the bottom of 158,

[5:27:24] Trustee Bernardo: the body of the text is immediately

[5:27:26] Trustee Bernardo: the first thing on the top of 159.

[5:27:40] Voice 26: And

[5:27:40] Trustee Bernardo: I take it, Trustee Getty,

[5:27:42] Trustee Bernardo: the issue you want explored is that Bowen Island

[5:27:45] Trustee Bernardo: is contributing to that $110 or $110,000 funding requirement,

[5:27:52] Trustee Bernardo: requirement but it is not going to be getting anything out of it right

[5:27:55] Voice 33: then I think we're

[5:27:56] Voice 33: duplicating so I don't think that the whoever is being hired for islands trust is going to be

[5:28:02] Voice 33: interviewing and working on local our local stuff right so the bottom line is estimated staff hours

[5:28:12] Voice 33: may substantially change if requested to engage with community groups and other agencies as

[5:28:16] Voice 33: discussed at the financial planning committee so just to

[5:28:21] Trustee Bernardo: be clear but here are are you asking that

[5:28:22] Trustee Bernardo: Would Bowen Island be excluded for that cost?

[5:28:25] Trustee Bernardo: Yes.

[5:28:25] Trustee Bernardo: Because you're basically not going to get anything out of it.

[5:28:27] Trustee Bernardo: Yes.

[5:28:27] Trustee Bernardo: Because you're not going to get interviewed.

[5:28:29] Trustee Bernardo: That's never going to happen.

[5:28:30] Voice 33: And we're working on our own.

[5:28:33] Trustee Bernardo: Point taken.

[5:28:35] Trustee Bernardo: That's actually not FPC's decision to make.

[5:28:38] Trustee Bernardo: That's through the whole process of what this request is all about.

[5:28:41] Trustee Bernardo: So I think it has to go back to the originating.

[5:28:44] Trustee Bernardo: I need some help here, Director Muggs.

[5:28:46] Trustee Bernardo: I think it goes back to the originating body that put in that business case, if I'm not mistaken.

[5:28:51] Trustee Bernardo: Is that right?

[5:28:52] Trustee Bernardo: right?

[5:28:53] Voice 42: So the body that submits the business case is really just talking about, here's what we want

[5:28:57] Voice 42: to do. Here's how we want to do it. Here's how much it's going to cost. They're not really

[5:29:00] Voice 42: contemplating who's going to be funding various pieces of it. The Bowen Island tax levy is

[5:29:05] Voice 42: calculated under its own policy of Trust Council. The principle in there basically does say Bowen

[5:29:10] Voice 42: Island will contribute to services that they're going to receive benefit from. If this is a

[5:29:15] Voice 42: project that they wouldn't receive benefit, it's perfectly acceptable for staff to be

[5:29:18] Voice 42: removing that from the calculation so

[5:29:21] Trustee Bernardo: the original planning committee that's behind this

[5:29:23] Trustee Bernardo: uh is being effectively if i correct me if i'm wrong here trustee getty but is being asked by

[5:29:28] Trustee Bernardo: trustee getty to reassess that particular request and keep bow and island out of it

[5:29:37] Voice 26: so cao easily done all right that was a lot of affirmations two words

[5:29:53] Voice 26: that's it for the speaker's list again anybody else

[5:29:56] Voice 26: We'll be right back.

[5:30:00] Voice 26: All right. So Trustee Patrick,

[5:30:02] Voice 25: I

[5:30:04] Trustee Patrick: did have a question. If we needed more, the bylaw module there, whatever that one, I did attend the work, whatever that was, the present education session on it this past week.

[5:30:16] Trustee Patrick: And it is a very interesting piece of software. And they were demonstrating how every one of our land use bylaw requirements, each individual one will be part of that system so that the bylaw officer just has to go click and can pull it out of the system.

[5:30:35] Trustee Patrick: And I asked, how do we deal with sometimes a bylaw is poorly written, and that should be one of the things that a bylaw officer raises.

[5:30:48] Trustee Patrick: And generally, he kind of indicated that you should be doing your work before you populate the system, that the bylaws that are going in there are pretty crisp.

[5:30:57] Trustee Patrick: Yes. So I'm just that's a question to has staff do staff feel comfortable that the quality of the land use bylaws that will be putting populating that system with are, you know, are good, I guess.

[5:31:14] Trustee Patrick: And if how much work would be involved as we update them? Is that something that was a question we didn't get clarified on the presentation?

[5:31:23] Voice 26: so rest your mic still no that's to block any other people very effective trustee peters

[5:31:34] Voice 26: uh

[5:31:37] Voice 16: just following up on uh trustee patrick's comments sir one of the things that stood out

[5:31:42] Voice 16: for me um in terms of the the city view of presentation that i think would um be really

[5:31:50] Voice 16: positive uh change if it's if it's funded and adopted is the ability for um members of the

[5:31:58] Voice 16: public uh to access the public accessible information uh parts about the the bylaw

[5:32:05] Voice 16: enforcement files and um i think that relates directly to some of the concerns that were

[5:32:12] Voice 16: expressed uh this time last year and and at mark's trust council around transparency and public

[5:32:20] Voice 16: access to bylaw information so for the folks that weren't able to to um to take part in that in that

[5:32:28] Voice 16: demonstration that was just something that stood out for me that i wanted to just bring everyone's

[5:32:33] Voice 16: attention for anyone who didn't see that just

[5:32:36] Voice 25: the other and

[5:32:38] Voice 29: following that line of thought i

[5:32:41] Voice 29: encourage everyone to think of the flip side as well because as we walk through the webinar

[5:32:48] Voice 29: it became evident to me how easy it is for constituents to just do an anonymous

[5:32:54] Voice 29: anonymous complaint in which they don't have to come into an office or speak to someone and write

[5:33:01] Voice 29: it out. It is purely electronic. And some of our communities, we are struggling with bylaws that do

[5:33:12] Voice 29: not match the community character and the growth pattern that has been either forced or has

[5:33:20] Voice 29: has developed over time. And there's the flip side is there's going to be a rash, I think,

[5:33:27] Voice 29: or a trend of, oh, my God, lots of complaints about city type infractions. Think of, you know,

[5:33:37] Voice 29: my neighbor's dog ran across my property and or it's just it makes it that much easier to

[5:33:46] Voice 29: tell on your neighbors and and so we we all come from different communities and cultures and

[5:33:52] Voice 29: there's some deeper considerations about how um this will show up in our communities okay

[5:34:04] Voice 26: i want

[5:34:06] Voice 25: to pass back i'm sorry okay so we're finished speaking list do you want to just pass back the

[5:34:11] Voice 25: chair okay

[5:34:12] Trustee Luckham: well um we can at 2 at 2 15 here we're anticipating our san juan friends and they're

[5:34:18] Trustee Luckham: actually starting to join us online. So I just want to welcome Cindy and Ms. Fuller, I believe

[5:34:24] Trustee Luckham: it is, Chair Wolf and Councillor Fuller, who joined us at this time, and perhaps some staff

[5:34:31] Trustee Luckham: will be joining us shortly as well. But let us wrap up this session and over to you, Chair of

[5:34:37] Trustee Luckham: Financial Planning Committee. Thank you, Chair. I

[5:34:41] Trustee Bernardo: think it's been a fruitful information section,

[5:34:44] Trustee Bernardo: and we've received some useful input, I think, from the trustees. I thank you for that.

[5:34:48] Trustee Bernardo: And I don't have anything else to add other than to thank you for your contribution.

[5:34:54] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you. Any final remarks?

[5:34:56] Trustee Luckham: Anybody? All right.

[5:34:59] Trustee Luckham: Let's can we get the San Juan County members up on our screen?

[5:35:06] Trustee Luckham: And it's easier to talk to them when you see them.

[5:35:09] Trustee Luckham: So while

[5:35:28] Voice 26: we're

[5:35:34] Trustee Luckham: trying to figure out some of the technology at this end, Chair Wolf and Councillor Fuller,

[5:35:40] Trustee Luckham: Welcome to the Islands Trust quarterly council meeting here in Victoria.

[5:35:46] Trustee Luckham: We're so very disappointed that as what seems to be another common interest that we have is that transportation to the islands throughout the Salish Sea can unglue our best plans.

[5:36:02] Trustee Luckham: And so sorry that you're not able to join us today because of the fog.

[5:36:09] Trustee Luckham: and do you have some i see up on a screen on the side there do you have some remarks you'd like to

[5:36:15] Trustee Luckham: make as you join into our conference and i'll maybe go around the room with introductions and

[5:36:19] Trustee Luckham: i think you're expecting some staff to join us as well good

[5:36:23] Voice 28: morning yes well actually good

[5:36:25] Voice 28: afternoon now um my name is cindy wolf i am the current chair of the san juan county council

[5:36:32] Voice 28: We are also joined by Councilmember Jane Fuller, who will be chair starting in January, we anticipate.

[5:36:43] Voice 28: I did hope to be there in person with you today. Unfortunately, the flight was canceled, and it was too foggy to be able to take one of the county boats over.

[5:36:54] Voice 28: So I will have to wait to meet you all in person at a future date.

[5:37:02] Voice 28: Hopefully, Sam Whitridge, who is our Marine Programs Coordinator for the county, will be able to join us as well.

[5:37:09] Voice 28: He will be available for any technical questions you might have on the information we provided on the ERTV.

[5:37:18] Voice 28: And just real happy for the opportunity to speak to you.

[5:37:24] Voice 28: We are your close relatives, I suppose one would say, here in the islands.

[5:37:33] Voice 28: We're part of the archipelago that you are part of.

[5:37:35] Voice 28: We are part of the ancestral homelands of the Coast Salish people who still fish and hunt and have treaty rights in our lands to this day.

[5:37:46] Voice 28: And we look forward to renewing relationships with you and addressing all kinds of different common interests.

[5:37:55] Voice 28: So with that, I would pass it to Jane.

[5:38:00] Voice 24: Thank you, Cindy and Chair Wolfe for our San Juan County Council.

[5:38:07] Voice 24: And thank you to the Trust Council of BC for the invitation to join this quarterly meeting of yours.

[5:38:14] Voice 24: I also hope to travel with Council Member Wolfe today, but I've been struggling with COVID for the last few days.

[5:38:20] Voice 24: So I had to sort of bow out, but it turns out neither of us could be there.

[5:38:24] Voice 24: So it is a pleasure to begin to establish a relationship with you, given that we know that there has been one of longstanding.

[5:38:34] Voice 24: And oops, I hope I'm still with you.

[5:38:38] Voice 24: I hope you can hear me.

[5:38:40] Voice 24: My computer just did something strange.

[5:38:43] Voice 24: So I am elected as of November of last year.

[5:38:47] Voice 24: So the seat that I have stepped into is that that Jamie Stevens occupied for 12 years.

[5:38:55] Voice 24: He was a council member for District 3. That is the seat that I now occupy.

[5:39:00] Voice 24: Fortunately, I continue to have good contact with Jamie Stevens and look forward to gaining from him insight into the various issues that you have worked on together with the San Juan County Council over many years,

[5:39:16] Voice 24: is going back to as far as 2011. So I, with my chair here today, have been on a steep learning

[5:39:25] Voice 24: curve this past year, which unfortunately hasn't necessarily been delving into the Trust Council

[5:39:29] Voice 24: of BC's issues. But so this is a really delightful opportunity to touch base with you at the end of

[5:39:35] Voice 24: this, my first year, but Chair Wolf's third year on council. And it's been a tumultuous number of

[5:39:42] Voice 24: years as for all of us uh you included uh going through covid and the impacts of that on our

[5:39:48] Voice 24: on our respective islands and how uh local government has navigated those challenges so

[5:39:53] Voice 24: um i think as chair chair wolf is going to have lots to discuss with the first three agenda four

[5:39:59] Voice 24: agenda topics in particular um that that are are slated for the first bit of our time together

[5:40:04] Voice 24: she's been closely working on those issues with staff um i do support council on the issue of

[5:40:11] Voice 24: transportation. I hope we can talk a little bit about that today, not just in the context of

[5:40:15] Voice 24: ports and railways, which is on the agenda, but ferries as well. But it's a pleasure to meet you

[5:40:22] Voice 24: virtually, look forward to meeting you in person. And my connection to British Columbia and Canada

[5:40:28] Voice 24: is pretty deep in that I grew up in the Fraser Valley. I grew up in Canada and worked for the

[5:40:35] Voice 24: federal government for much of my career and a dual citizen that made San Juan County my home

[5:40:42] Voice 24: in 2017 full-time but I've been traveling the San Juan Islands since 1978 when parents bought

[5:40:48] Voice 24: property but land on Lopez Island so it's been a real pleasure of mine to be elected to serve

[5:40:56] Voice 24: and represent the local government here and work with my seat mates and our staff and really look

[5:41:02] Voice 24: forward to delving into some very common issues i think we have um as uh as i chart my term and

[5:41:09] Voice 24: and uh as um as cindy and christine my seat mates uh continue their fourth year uh in their terms

[5:41:16] Voice 24: thank you very much uh

[5:41:19] Trustee Luckham: well thank you very much uh chair wolf and uh councillor fuller future chair

[5:41:24] Trustee Luckham: and uh it's great for you to be here and indeed we we've had this long-standing transporter

[5:41:30] Trustee Luckham: island agreement and a number of the council members at this table here today will have

[5:41:36] Trustee Luckham: met with previous councillors and traveled to the salmon islands and indeed previous

[5:41:41] Trustee Luckham: councillors have traveled to us over this time and there's been lots of dialogue back and forth

[5:41:46] Trustee Luckham: along the common interests and certainly the waterway itself and the orca and the salmon

[5:41:51] Trustee Luckham: are critical in that and of course the first nations interests are also critical in the work

[5:41:59] Trustee Luckham: both of us do but on a more sort of focused topic our oil spin bills prevention and emergency tow

[5:42:06] Trustee Luckham: vessels and housing and you've raised and i have some remarks to make with respect to the roberts

[5:42:13] Trustee Luckham: bank project there that i know that your citizens are concerned with well as well but before i get

[5:42:18] Trustee Luckham: too far along here i want to introduce you to this council we're normally 26 sitting members and i'm

[5:42:24] Trustee Luckham: going to start on on my uh left hand side this time with uh i think ben may barely is down there

[5:42:32] Trustee Luckham: i'll just ask you to introduce your name and the island you're from so that the counselors can get

[5:42:36] Trustee Luckham: a full grasp of the scope of um and i'll just just mention before i turn it over to them is that we

[5:42:43] Trustee Luckham: We call ourselves the Islands Trust, and it's not the trust of BC, but the Islands Trust.

[5:42:49] Trustee Luckham: And it's interesting.

[5:42:51] Trustee Luckham: I'm sure you have the same problem.

[5:42:53] Trustee Luckham: Sometimes we wonder, and the conversation came up earlier yesterday, was whether or

[5:42:57] Trustee Luckham: not the Islands Trust is considered part of the province of British Columbia, as possibly

[5:43:01] Trustee Luckham: as Sam or Islands wonder on occasion whether you're part of Washington State, because

[5:43:06] Trustee Luckham: sometimes that isn't necessarily obvious in legislation that comes around.

[5:43:10] Trustee Luckham: So over to Ben Maberly.

[5:43:13] Voice 23: Yeah, thank you. Ben Mabry, I'm a trustee for Galeano Island.

[5:43:17] Voice 23: So just a little ways above you there, but yeah, good to meet you.

[5:43:23] Trustee Bernardo: Hi, my name is Joe Bernardo. I'm the trustee from Keats Island.

[5:43:27] Trustee Bernardo: It's also known as Lachines in the language spoken by the Squamish people,

[5:43:31] Trustee Bernardo: and it's in the traditional territory of the Squamish people.

[5:43:35] Trustee Bernardo: It's in Howe Sound, right across from Gibson's at Sunshine Coast.

[5:43:38] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I'll ask trustees to look at the video camera here because it can see you

[5:43:43] Trustee Luckham: and when you're looking at the screen, they can't see you.

[5:43:47] Voice 32: Janine Dodds, Main Island.

[5:43:52] Voice 37: Lee Middleton, Citroen Island, your immediate neighbors.

[5:43:55] Voice 37: Thank you for joining.

[5:43:58] Voice 26: Ken Hunter, Thedas Island. Good afternoon.

[5:44:03] Trustee Fast: Hi, it's Sue Ellen Fast.

[5:44:04] Trustee Fast: I'm from Nuklelequam, Bowen Island,

[5:44:07] Trustee Fast: over in Kitsom, Howe Sound,

[5:44:10] Trustee Fast: in Metro Vancouver Regional District.

[5:44:14] Voice 17: Hi, Alex Allen from Horney Island, way

[5:44:16] Voice 26: up there.

[5:44:21] Voice 12: David Graham from Denman Island, also way up from up there.

[5:44:27] Trustee Borthwick: Sam Borthwick, also from Denman.

[5:44:28] Trustee Borthwick: I think between us, between Liskini, I'm not sure who's the furthest from you, but we're up there.

[5:44:36] Voice 16: Tim Peterson from Pueyate, Liskini Island, way up there.

[5:44:42] Voice 16: Near Denman and Hornby Island, we'll have to do the math and figure out who's farthest away.

[5:44:47] Voice 16: away.

[5:44:49] Voice 25: David Maude from Main Island, which is next door to Citerna, so not too far away.

[5:44:54] Voice 25: And

[5:44:57] Trustee Luckham: just for your reference, Peter Luckham, I'm elected on Thetis Island, which I think of as

[5:45:02] Trustee Luckham: being in the center of the Inland Sea, which is the Inland Sea, which is the Southern Gulf Islands,

[5:45:12] Voice 11: and it's a pleasure to be here.

[5:45:15] Voice 29: So continuing the train of directional orientation, I am from

[5:45:19] Voice 29: I'm Gabriela Island, Toby Elliott, slightly north of the center of the Gulf Islands.

[5:45:29] Voice 4: Good afternoon.

[5:45:30] Voice 4: I'm Deb Morrison, North Pender Island, Trustee Steyas,

[5:45:35] Voice 6: traditional territories of the Wissamish people.

[5:45:41] Trustee Evans: Christina Evans from Steyas South Pender, and we look directly at you.

[5:45:46] Trustee Evans: I think we're the closest.

[5:45:48] Trustee Evans: And actually, out of all of the trustees, I think I live the closest because I'm right at the end.

[5:45:52] Trustee Evans: I'm

[5:45:53] Voice 26: waving to you Susan

[5:45:59] Voice 20: Yates Gabriela Island pretty much in the middle of the whole trust area

[5:46:09] Voice 41: Maureen Boland Saterna Island and I would dispute the being closest with with Christina but I'll

[5:46:16] Voice 41: take it up with her later I'm at the east end of Saterna Island so our view is Orcas Island

[5:46:22] Voice 41: I get my internet from orcas online at several whale trail locations on Saturna Island, which, of course, the whale trail was started by Donna, I think, maybe in Friday Harbour or thereabouts.

[5:46:40] Voice 41: So I figure we actually have some cross-boundary things going on.

[5:46:45] Voice 41: And those orcas, they don't carry passports.

[5:46:51] Voice 26: Dag Falk, South Pender.

[5:46:56] Voice 26: Lisa Goldbrook, hi, thanks for coming

[5:46:58] Voice 26: Galliano Island

[5:46:59] Voice 27: Laura Patrick from Salt Spring Island

[5:47:03] Voice 27: and from our high points we

[5:47:05] Trustee Patrick: can see you

[5:47:07] Voice 33: Judy Getty, Bowen Island

[5:47:09] Voice 33: so on the far east of the

[5:47:10] Voice 33: Gulf Islands and

[5:47:12] Voice 33: I have to probably drive to get closer

[5:47:15] Voice 33: to you

[5:47:18] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you everybody

[5:47:20] Trustee Luckham: so I'm reflecting

[5:47:22] Trustee Luckham: on the discussion

[5:47:25] Trustee Luckham: items that we have here

[5:47:26] Trustee Luckham: oil prevention, transponder, boundary

[5:47:28] Trustee Luckham: response and emergency tow vessels. Certainly, obviously, that's combined, but an oil spill

[5:47:35] Trustee Luckham: isn't necessarily always oil tankers. It's freighter traffic that has significant quantities

[5:47:41] Trustee Luckham: of fuel and oil on board that is a great risk. I do have the slideshow here, and maybe I'll ask

[5:47:49] Trustee Luckham: Emily about that, as if we can get perhaps the one up on the screen internally in the room here,

[5:47:55] Trustee Luckham: And I can sequence us through those slides if you would like.

[5:47:59] Trustee Luckham: I'm not 100% sure if you'll see that because that might be a separate screen from what you're seeing.

[5:48:04] Trustee Luckham: We're doing a different technology thing here at this time.

[5:48:06] Trustee Luckham: But I'll just maybe remark at the outset on the oil spill prevention.

[5:48:12] Trustee Luckham: Of course, we've been on this for at least as long as you have because a turn point out there halfway between San Juan Islands and the Southern Gulf Islands

[5:48:22] Trustee Luckham: is where the bulk of the traffic on the Pacific coast comes or goes in one direction or the other.

[5:48:28] Trustee Luckham: And I think it's identified as one of the four most likely locations in Canada

[5:48:34] Trustee Luckham: that could experience a significant oil spill.

[5:48:39] Trustee Luckham: And we've, in our role of advocacy, we've advocated Transport Canada and others

[5:48:47] Trustee Luckham: to ensure that the tools and the mechanisms and the procedures are in place

[5:48:53] Trustee Luckham: for a trans-border response in many of these physical locations.

[5:49:00] Trustee Luckham: Indeed, there's many other agencies, Coast Guard, Transport Canada,

[5:49:06] Trustee Luckham: Ministry of Environments, that have a command system in place

[5:49:12] Trustee Luckham: that has certainly been upgraded in all the years that we've talked about it.

[5:49:16] Trustee Luckham: and there's no doubt they would do an excellent job at what they do whether or not it's ever going

[5:49:22] Trustee Luckham: to be sufficient is really the question and of course our government launched um a number of

[5:49:27] Trustee Luckham: years ago now eight or ten or twelve years ago the ocean protection plan which was supposed to be the

[5:49:32] Trustee Luckham: solution to many of these problems and although there's been lots of good work that has happened

[5:49:36] Trustee Luckham: there and indeed significant improvements in west coast or um the uh west coast response marine

[5:49:44] Trustee Luckham: response um initiative um many of us now see those vessels in our ports in our harbors if not

[5:49:50] Trustee Luckham: park their training and so there's lots of good activity over there but um not a lot of advocacy

[5:49:57] Trustee Luckham: in recent years although there's some activity and i'll touch on that later with associated with

[5:50:03] Trustee Luckham: robert's bank and with the port of vancouver taking over potentially taking over responsibility for

[5:50:09] Trustee Luckham: or anchorages in the Southern Gulf Islands,

[5:50:12] Trustee Luckham: which is something of great concern to us as well.

[5:50:14] Trustee Luckham: But I'll turn it over to you to touch on that subject.

[5:50:17] Trustee Luckham: And if you want us to go through the slideshow,

[5:50:19] Trustee Luckham: I can certainly do that.

[5:50:23] Voice 26: I gave it to-

[5:50:26] Voice 28: I don't know how much time your councillors have had

[5:50:30] Voice 28: to go through the slideshow.

[5:50:33] Voice 28: What I sent over for the ERTV is a presentation

[5:50:38] Voice 28: that was given to the Transboundary Caucus on September 29th of 2023. To back up,

[5:50:50] Voice 28: most recently, our advocacy has been with, it's been in two places. It's been with

[5:50:59] Voice 28: the federal delegation, mostly through Senator Maria Cantwell's office, and also through the

[5:51:08] Voice 28: Puget Sound Partnership through the Ecosystems Coordination Board, which then voted to advance

[5:51:16] Voice 28: the issue of an ERTV to the Transboundary Caucus. And in both cases, the really pivotal document

[5:51:24] Voice 28: that was in question was this report from Washington State Department of Ecology on the

[5:51:33] Voice 28: the utility of an ERTV and emergency response tow vessel

[5:51:40] Voice 28: for those who are out there in the public listening to this

[5:51:44] Voice 28: and what would be the reduction of risk of an oil spill

[5:51:50] Voice 28: given an ERTV that was able to respond

[5:51:54] Voice 28: in a reasonable amount of time

[5:51:55] Voice 28: and where best would you get an effect

[5:51:58] Voice 28: effect if you stationed that vehicle or the vessel.

[5:52:04] Voice 28: The conclusion of the report was that Roche Harbor or

[5:52:11] Voice 28: Sydney would be the most effective places to station an ERTV and

[5:52:19] Voice 28: that the reduction would be most significant for Harrow Strait.

[5:52:25] Voice 28: And I'm going to at this point introduce

[5:52:27] Voice 28: introduce our marine programs coordinator, Sam Whitridge. I hope he's listening and will pop on

[5:52:35] Voice 28: here. And Sam, would you give a little bit more of a synopsis of what that presentation was

[5:52:41] Voice 28: to the Transboundary Office and which agencies were there?

[5:52:47] Voice 13: Yeah, thank you, Cindy. And pleased to be here to join your meeting today. So my name is Sam

[5:52:55] Voice 13: Whitridge. I live on Orcas Island and I am the Marine Program Coordinator for San Juan County

[5:53:03] Voice 13: in the Department of Environmental Stewardship. And for the past few months I have been kind of

[5:53:10] Voice 13: taking the lead on this ERTV issue and our county efforts around advocacy around an ERTV. So yeah,

[5:53:20] Voice 13: Yeah, Cindy mentioned kind of the focus over the last few months from the county perspective has been, you know, Cindy mentioned we were invited to the ad hoc trans boundary caucus meeting back in late September.

[5:53:37] Voice 13: That meeting coincided with the release of the Department of Ecology analysis.

[5:53:44] Voice 13: The analysis was basically a legislative directive.

[5:53:51] Voice 13: It was House Bill 1578 that was passed back in 2019, and it came on the heels of Governor

[5:54:02] Voice 13: Inslee's Southern Resident Killer Whale Task Force, which did make a recommendation that

[5:54:08] Voice 13: an ERTV be stationed in the inland waters around Harrow Strait and Boundary Pass.

[5:54:16] Voice 13: At that time, instead of acting on that recommendation, the legislature decided to direct

[5:54:24] Voice 13: Ecology to the Department of Ecology to run an additional analysis.

[5:54:30] Voice 13: So a lot of our efforts have kind of been, you know, a bit on hold as we waited for that analysis

[5:54:37] Voice 13: responses from ecology to be released. And Cindy, the slides that Cindy did provide to you in advance of this meeting were the presentation that was given at the Ad Hoc Transboundary Caucus in late September.

[5:54:52] Voice 13: It provides kind of a high-level overview of their study, of their findings, and risk reduction by geographic zone based on stationing an ERTV either in Roche Harbor or in Sydney.

[5:55:11] Trustee Luckham: We've managed to get that presentation up on the screen here now.

[5:55:15] Trustee Luckham: Is there a page in particular you'd like to direct us to, to kind of capture some of the elements you've spoken about there?

[5:55:21] Trustee Luckham: Yes,

[5:55:23] Voice 13: so I think as you go towards the end of the presentation, there's

[5:55:30] Voice 13: a couple slides that say changes by zone for an ERTV in Roche Harbor. I think they're on the,

[5:55:40] Voice 13: let's see, okay, I can see your screen now, I believe. Yeah, so I think they're

[5:55:47] Voice 13: at the very end

[5:55:49] Voice 26: of the presentation. So we'll scroll up here if you can

[5:55:55] Voice 26: see that just to tell us when we're on the right page and i yep these

[5:56:05] Voice 13: are the graphs yeah these

[5:56:06] Voice 13: are the graphs that are kind of the the main takeaway so from here going up um so this is

[5:56:15] Voice 13: the sydney information that was presented in the study um so what this shows is um changes by

[5:56:26] Voice 13: by geographic zone. So the zones that are presented in the report are at the top of the

[5:56:32] Voice 13: graph there, Arrow Strait and Boundary Pass, Rosario Strait, Southern Gulf Islands, Strait

[5:56:37] Voice 13: of Georgia below the 49th, Strait of Georgia North, and Western Strait of Juan de Fuca.

[5:56:44] Voice 13: And so basically in this, in the ecology analysis, they looked at three different risk metrics

[5:56:53] Voice 13: metrics to assess risk and to assess risk reduction.

[5:56:57] Voice 13: So those metrics were, as you can see here, the graph that is

[5:57:04] Voice 13: currently showing that was change in oil outflow for an ERTV located in Sydney.

[5:57:11] Voice 13: So the oil outflow metric was designed

[5:57:14] Voice 13: to represent risk of an average potential spill.

[5:57:18] Voice 13: So it doesn't produce specific outflows

[5:57:21] Voice 13: for individual events, but it's based on the historical averages of spill size

[5:57:25] Voice 13: and the historical probability of spills per incident per vessel type. So that's what we're

[5:57:32] Voice 13: looking at right here. If an ERTV were to be stationed in Sydney, this shows the change

[5:57:40] Voice 13: in oil outflow for a Sydney ERTV. So the percentage reduction in risk of oil outflow

[5:57:49] Voice 13: is shown on that top graph. As you can see, pretty significant risk reduction for the Strait of

[5:57:56] Voice 13: Georgia below the 49th there. Also, the Southern Gulf Islands, around a 10% risk reduction. And

[5:58:03] Voice 13: then Harrah Strait and Boundary Pass, a little less than 6%. And then the other two metrics,

[5:58:12] Voice 13: so basically they presented this information by the three metrics for an ERTV in Sydney and then

[5:58:18] Voice 13: and an ERTV in Roche Harbor.

[5:58:21] Voice 13: So if you were to scroll up, we could see the next metric,

[5:58:24] Voice 13: which is a change in oil volume at risk for a Sydney ERTV.

[5:58:31] Voice 13: So this metric was designed to represent risk

[5:58:35] Voice 13: of a maximum potential spill.

[5:58:37] Voice 13: So it's based on the fuel and oil cargo capacity

[5:58:41] Voice 13: of an involved vessel.

[5:58:43] Voice 13: And it's calculated by multiplying the maximum

[5:58:46] Voice 13: a maximum possible volume of oil in gallons aboard a simulated vessel against the incident likelihood.

[5:58:55] Voice 13: So this is an oil volume metric.

[5:59:00] Voice 13: So if an ERTV were stationed in Sydney, the percent reduction in risk is shown here on this top graph.

[5:59:09] Voice 13: graph. Again, significant reduction for the Southern Gulf Islands and Strait of Georgia

[5:59:15] Voice 13: below the 49th, and then Harrow Strait and Boundary Pass as well, showing a pretty, you

[5:59:23] Voice 13: know, sizable reduction in risk there. And then finally, if you want to scroll up to

[5:59:31] Voice 13: the next one above, this is the third metric. So this is changes in drift groundings, and

[5:59:38] Voice 13: this metric was basically designed to represent the likelihood of a drift grounding so they

[5:59:44] Voice 13: they created uh department of ecology had a whole team that created a model and they ran

[5:59:50] Voice 13: uh you know thousands of simulations and this is basically uh you know a metric that shows how

[6:00:00] Voice 13: likely a grounding is to occur. So for an ERTV located in Sydney, we see the percent reduction

[6:00:10] Voice 13: in drift groundings by geographic zone on these graphs. So, you know, once again, as we see with

[6:00:22] Voice 13: these three metrics, for an ERTV in Sydney, the place where we're seeing the greatest risk

[6:00:27] Voice 13: reduction would be the southern gulf islands and the and the strait of georgia below the 49th

[6:00:36] Voice 26: any questions um okay

[6:00:39] Trustee Luckham: um before i go to questions i just want to uh uh acknowledge because i

[6:00:44] Trustee Luckham: admitted to do so earlier that uh we have people uh trustees joining in online today as well and

[6:00:49] Trustee Luckham: michael michaela leroni from liskiti islanders joined us online and jamie harris uh from salt

[6:00:56] Trustee Luckham: Gold Spring Islanders joined us online.

[6:00:57] Trustee Luckham: And Aaron Campbell, who's in North Pender Island, trustee, I think he's joining us from

[6:01:02] Trustee Luckham: Mexico today.

[6:01:03] Trustee Luckham: So that's nice for him.

[6:01:04] Trustee Luckham: But that's another three trustees.

[6:01:06] Trustee Luckham: But indeed, I'll ask if there's any questions with respect to this.

[6:01:10] Trustee Luckham: I'll just say that I have this slide, Joe, and I can share it with you.

[6:01:13] Trustee Luckham: It only came in the other day, so I haven't had a chance to get that to you.

[6:01:16] Trustee Luckham: And so you can certainly reference it.

[6:01:19] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to lead off, actually.

[6:01:21] Trustee Luckham: Can

[6:01:22] Voice 28: I just give a, there's a couple pieces of information I think you should also have about the parameters of this study. As I understand it, the data stopped at 2019.

[6:01:34] Voice 28: 19. So for instance, the Zim Kingston situation wasn't part of this also, and several other

[6:01:43] Voice 28: incidents that have happened since then. Also, it looked very strictly at groundings, and it did not

[6:01:49] Voice 28: look at things like fires and other incidents that could happen in relationship to container

[6:01:54] Voice 28: vessels. So thank you for your patience in letting me. No, thank you for that.

[6:02:00] Trustee Luckham: So a couple of pieces

[6:02:02] Trustee Luckham: of information is that West Coast Environmental Marine Corporation, I think is what they're

[6:02:07] Trustee Luckham: called, their agency contracted due to oil spill response, they are getting a larger

[6:02:12] Trustee Luckham: or have a larger vessel, which is now a tow vehicle vessel, which is now ported on the

[6:02:21] Trustee Luckham: west coast of the island rather than inside the basin at Sydney.

[6:02:28] Trustee Luckham: And just want to make sure that you know that, whether you have any remarks with respect

[6:02:32] Trustee Luckham: to that vessel and its capacity um but um there's other questions around the table and um so i see

[6:02:38] Trustee Luckham: uh ben maberly from galliano has a hand up

[6:02:42] Voice 23: yeah thank you um just along those lines uh peter so

[6:02:45] Voice 23: uh for the last 10 years uh with the southern gulf on the stocks commission and and the

[6:02:50] Voice 23: harvard authority we've been working with the western uh canada marine response corporation

[6:02:55] Voice 23: to actually put spill packages oil spill packages throughout the southern gulf islands

[6:02:59] Voice 23: And so at this point now we have packages at Whaler Bay and Montague Harbour on Galleon Island, Horton Bay on Main Island and Lyle Harbour on Saturn Island.

[6:03:10] Voice 23: So those packages are in place now and they're attended to on a pretty regular basis by the WCMRC spill response boats.

[6:03:20] Trustee Luckham: Perfect. Thank you. Any other questions? Deb Morrison, Pender Island.

[6:03:27] Trustee Luckham: Yeah,

[6:03:27] Voice 4: thank you so much for a super interesting presentation. And the report behind this is very, very interesting. I guess one of the things in looking at the report was that the risk reduction amount that is that you're referring to in terms of like how much risk is reduced.

[6:03:47] Voice 4: I guess the question that comes to mind for me is, like, what other things potentially have a greater risk reduction potential for reducing spills in the Southern Gulf Islands?

[6:03:59] Voice 4: And thanks to Trustee Maberly for just mentioning, like, the spill kit locations and things like that, because I know those types of preparedness efforts are also.

[6:04:05] Voice 4: So maybe if you could speak to, like, the other aspects, too, to help us understand that system of spill or

[6:04:11] Voice 6: fire or other types of issues.

[6:04:17] Voice 13: Yeah, thank you.

[6:04:18] Voice 13: And I can take that one.

[6:04:19] Voice 13: So that that's a good question. And I think a lot of the work San Juan County has done around this is kind of stems from a study that we did back in 2021 or the study was released back in 2021.

[6:04:36] Voice 13: And it was a vessel drift response analysis. And, you know, it looked at response times for a disabled vessel that was transiting, you know, the Harrow Strait boundary pass area and sort of what response time would be required to get to a disabled vessel and stave off a catastrophic oil spill.

[6:05:00] Voice 13: And the study sort of to kind of cut to the chase, the result of the study kind of illustrated that one hour was the maximum time, the real optimal time to be able to respond within one hour, just based on currents and proximity to places like turn point and that sort of thing.

[6:05:23] Voice 13: And so the time frame, you know, to stave off and to prevent that oil getting in the water is a pretty narrow time frame.

[6:05:32] Voice 13: So I think that's the lens through which San Juan County has been looking at it.

[6:05:38] Voice 13: This issue is just we need to have an ERTV station so that we're able to or so that the response is able to happen within an hour.

[6:05:47] Voice 13: because once once a vessel um you know once the oil is in the water then we're talking about

[6:05:53] Voice 13: response as opposed to prevention so obviously there's a lot that can be done in terms of

[6:05:58] Voice 13: response but uh prevention is kind of the thing that we've really been focusing on as a priority

[6:06:04] Voice 13: and and you know having an er tv stationed in these inland waters is kind of the the really

[6:06:12] Voice 13: the main way to get at that that prevention issue and

[6:06:17] Voice 28: really we are um our land area is uh

[6:06:24] Voice 28: like 438 miles square miles and we have 408 miles of shoreline uh and that's

[6:06:35] Voice 28: this is you you're all islanders you know what this means this means

[6:06:41] Voice 28: an incredibly rich nearshore habitat. And if my memory serves correctly, once the oil is in the

[6:06:50] Voice 28: water, we're talking about currents that will take that all over the islands and potentially

[6:06:55] Voice 28: contaminate most of that habitat within 48 hours. And so that is why it becomes so critical to think

[6:07:05] Voice 28: in terms of prevention rather than response.

[6:07:12] Voice 26: Right. Thank you.

[6:07:14] Trustee Luckham: I can't help but reflect on the habitat, the miles of coastline.

[6:07:19] Trustee Luckham: I don't know how much miles of coastline we have in the South Gulf Islands.

[6:07:22] Trustee Luckham: Lots.

[6:07:23] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, all those little nooks and crannies, those coves and bays.

[6:07:27] Trustee Luckham: And particularly, I'm thinking about the King Salmon,

[6:07:30] Trustee Luckham: which has been a big restoration program in Washington state.

[6:07:34] Trustee Luckham: state. And interestingly, when you've done some habitat analysis, you've found a lot of

[6:07:40] Trustee Luckham: fish that come down from the Fraser River and are in their juvenile years spending a lot of time

[6:07:46] Trustee Luckham: in and around the San Juan Islands. And indeed, those habitats would be damaged in six to 12,

[6:07:56] Trustee Luckham: I think, of units of six hours because that's when the tide changes and it flushes in and flushes

[6:08:01] Trustee Luckham: out and flushes in and flushes out and through for every cycle it just gets worse and uh so

[6:08:05] Trustee Luckham: indeed as it's been indicated a one hour response time will prevent the oil from getting in the

[6:08:11] Trustee Luckham: water in the first place and that's the critical thing here um do you have any uh other remarks

[6:08:16] Trustee Luckham: about any of the other habitat or maybe i'll let you just go back to our table here to ask if

[6:08:22] Trustee Luckham: there's any questions around the table for our guests here today uh laura patrick i'll let you

[6:08:29] Trustee Luckham: you, Mary.

[6:08:30] Trustee Patrick: Thank you so much for being here. And yeah, I was really impressed when I saw that

[6:08:34] Trustee Patrick: statistic in your comprehensive plan about the amount of shoreline and how that takes such a

[6:08:40] Trustee Patrick: tiny land base and suddenly makes you very important. So our staff did do that work.

[6:08:45] Trustee Patrick: And we have exactly the same situation. I just don't have the data. Claire has it. So ask for

[6:08:51] Trustee Patrick: Claire. The question I have is, I know this isn't the first time we've talked about this piece of

[6:08:59] Trustee Patrick: equipment being uh located in either place and i'm looking to our chair and i'm not sure i know

[6:09:04] Trustee Patrick: we did some advocacy on it uh how old is that and um you know what can we do to join our advocacy

[6:09:14] Trustee Luckham: well yeah i would say that a number of years have lapsed since we've been very active on that

[6:09:20] Trustee Luckham: certainly um have worked with the town of sydney in the past and they're certainly interested in

[6:09:24] Trustee Luckham: providing that access. As I mentioned, the newest vessel that WCMRC has is now positioned on the

[6:09:37] Trustee Luckham: West Coast. And there continues to be some resistance in having that vessel available in

[6:09:45] Trustee Luckham: Sydney, which most of the rest of us seem to think is an important thing. But it's still a live

[6:09:51] Trustee Luckham: conversation, but it's very slow moving. There's a lot of money that has been

[6:09:55] Trustee Luckham: invested in MR in the provision of the spill

[6:09:59] Trustee Luckham: response regime. They happen to be the contractor that has all the

[6:10:03] Trustee Luckham: equipment at the moment, but they are a contractor.

[6:10:08] Trustee Luckham: It continues to grow. In fact, just the oil spill

[6:10:11] Trustee Luckham: recovery vessels are significant that are now just one anchored in

[6:10:16] Trustee Luckham: Nanaimo or tied up to a dock in Nanaimo and others

[6:10:19] Trustee Luckham: throughout um but it's um it's scaled down i think because transport canada and wcmrc

[6:10:28] Trustee Luckham: considered that the capacity that they have presently is sufficient to uh facilitate the

[6:10:35] Trustee Luckham: risk that exists but of course as long as there's any risk it means a huge economic impact and of

[6:10:43] Trustee Luckham: course the next piece of the conversation which we might go to next actually is the expansion of

[6:10:48] Trustee Luckham: Now, the Robert Banks terminal had indeed a significant number of additional vessels coming and going.

[6:10:54] Trustee Luckham: And so that small risk, we'll call it, obviously multiplies based upon the number of vessels that are coming and going.

[6:11:01] Trustee Luckham: And, you know, it's interesting.

[6:11:04] Trustee Luckham: ICBC puts roundabouts in towns when there's too much traffic to go around.

[6:11:08] Trustee Luckham: Well, Turn Island is the roundabout, and it's a significant number of vessels that travel through there.

[6:11:16] Trustee Luckham: any other questions or remarks from on the either the table here or from our friends at

[6:11:21] Trustee Luckham: san juan county

[6:11:22] Voice 26: okay um oh

[6:11:32] Trustee Luckham: where okay go ahead thank

[6:11:36] Voice 37: you um this is more of a historical

[6:11:38] Voice 37: question we we've been talking about representation and as you know we're we're a much bigger group

[6:11:44] Voice 37: that's uh 26 of us representing 13 islands but i understand from your colleagues in times past

[6:11:49] Voice 37: that you also were a much bigger council that governed San Juan County.

[6:11:54] Voice 37: And I'm kind of rusty on the details,

[6:11:56] Voice 37: but I know you went through a process where the number of councils were reduced,

[6:12:00] Voice 37: that the electors were in favor, presumably, and peace has hopefully reigned.

[6:12:08] Voice 37: I'm just wondering if you could comment on what happened,

[6:12:10] Voice 37: what the state is now, and if you have any other comments

[6:12:12] Voice 37: on representation democratically across a group of islands.

[6:12:17] Voice 37: Thank you.

[6:12:18] Voice 37: you? So

[6:12:21] Voice 28: historically, I think our peak number of commissioners was seven. And we made a move

[6:12:29] Voice 28: governmentally to, there's a standard form of county government that's outlined in the state's

[6:12:37] Voice 28: code. And there's also the option to do a home rule charter, which allows for a certain number

[6:12:45] Voice 28: number of other things as far as junior taxation districts and other governmental options and

[6:12:52] Voice 28: writing your own charter. So the move was made to a home rule style of government for the county.

[6:13:03] Voice 28: And then we went from, I think it went three council members to five council members and

[6:13:12] Voice 28: The three council members have to be elected from residential districts, but because of the laws governing how you divide up voting precincts,

[6:13:25] Voice 28: There was no rational way to divide voting precincts in a manner that allowed for an equal representation of constituents, numbers of constituents, without chopping up islands and adding populations together.

[6:13:45] Voice 28: So the decision was made that while all three council members would be elected countywide, we would all be from separate districts in order to be able to represent a certain amount of expertise with the situations on our home islands and the smaller islands that are most closely affiliated with them.

[6:14:11] Voice 28: um we the the reasons among the reasons for going with a three-person council uh is uh the

[6:14:23] Voice 28: ability to pay for us to be full-time council members and not need to have second jobs

[6:14:30] Voice 28: and that has been i know for me uh it it enables me to actually do this job i'm not somebody who

[6:14:38] Voice 28: who could afford to do it on a volunteer basis.

[6:14:42] Voice 28: And so to be compensated as a professional

[6:14:46] Voice 28: is really an important thing.

[6:14:49] Voice 28: I'm glad they made that decision.

[6:14:51] Voice 28: I think also it's really the one really big challenge

[6:15:02] Voice 28: about having a council of three

[6:15:05] Voice 28: is that we do have Open Public Meetings Act laws

[6:15:09] Voice 28: laws that mean that we cannot discuss anything we might vote on outside of a public meeting

[6:15:15] Voice 28: because two of us would constitute a quorum. So that can be a little bit challenging. But with

[6:15:21] Voice 28: that, I would invite Council Member Fuller. Do you have any other comments on the situation?

[6:15:28] Voice 24: Sure. Thank you, Cindy. No, it's a good question and a valid question because, indeed,

[6:15:34] Voice 24: back in 2005 when the electorate in this county voted to become a home rural charter county

[6:15:43] Voice 24: things were contentious and that really only settled down when there was a charter review

[6:15:49] Voice 24: commission that was elected to review the charter in 2012. That was approximately five years after

[6:15:58] Voice 24: we became a home rule charter that was required uh that a charter review commission revisit the

[6:16:04] Voice 24: charter and it was at that time that it was it was actually it was a six-person uh commission

[6:16:09] Voice 24: and it was reduced to the three-person council that we currently are so we used to be called

[6:16:14] Voice 24: commissioners um we we don't like being called commissioners because we're actually council

[6:16:18] Voice 24: members but the history of the memory of the people in this in this county think we're still

[6:16:23] Voice 24: commissioners and that's fine because we are indeed um either commissioners or councils but

[6:16:27] Voice 24: but we belong to a council.

[6:16:28] Voice 24: So the tumultuousness of all of that has indeed settled.

[6:16:36] Voice 24: The difficulties around that between 2005, 2012

[6:16:40] Voice 24: were rather politicized as Council Member Walsh just spoke to

[6:16:45] Voice 24: in terms of how would the islands be divvied up

[6:16:48] Voice 24: and so on and so forth.

[6:16:49] Voice 24: But those waters have settled.

[6:16:52] Voice 24: settled and indeed in 2021 there was the 10-year Charter Review Commission that was constituted

[6:17:01] Voice 24: by election. I sat on that body for a year and it was at that time that the Charter Review

[6:17:09] Voice 24: Commission just took stock of our charter again and looked at what were some important priorities

[6:17:14] Voice 24: that we needed to be contemplating as a county, environment being one of them and some other

[6:17:21] Voice 24: matters as well was our structure of government working okay and so um no massive changes came

[6:17:28] Voice 24: out of that charter review commission um uh it'll be reviewed again in in 10 years um but i guess

[6:17:35] Voice 24: actually well one important change i think was a modification to the preamble of our charter

[6:17:40] Voice 24: with which now includes a land acknowledgement um and uh that sort of really um reinforced in

[6:17:48] Voice 24: the consciousness of this county I think because the electorate voted on changes to our charter

[6:17:53] Voice 24: that indeed uh indigenous relations are something that we as a county want to want to work more

[6:17:59] Voice 24: deeply on I think we have a lot to learn from you in that as well actually and um so we're our

[6:18:05] Voice 24: waters are settled um when it comes to the constitution of our current council I really

[6:18:11] Voice 24: wish I could talk to my seat mates about all manner of things but we can't um with the exception of

[6:18:15] Voice 24: of how we're feeling and how our families are.

[6:18:17] Voice 24: No, we have to be very, very careful around that.

[6:18:20] Voice 24: It creates all manner of challenges,

[6:18:23] Voice 24: but we have to live with those

[6:18:25] Voice 24: because that's the nature of our Open Public Meetings Act.

[6:18:28] Voice 24: But yeah, so our waters are calm in some places

[6:18:32] Voice 24: and not in others, kind of like every political landscape.

[6:18:36] Voice 24: So.

[6:18:38] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you.

[6:18:39] Trustee Luckham: I'll just say, we are very familiar

[6:18:40] Trustee Luckham: with the two-person quorum

[6:18:42] Trustee Luckham: because each of all of the trustees that you see around the table here are all parts of three

[6:18:49] Trustee Luckham: person uh committees local trust committees and it it does make decision maker or information

[6:18:56] Trustee Luckham: sharing challenging and difficult um and sometimes the conversation in public you have to kind of get

[6:19:02] Trustee Luckham: used to it because we

[6:19:03] Trustee Luckham: do all the time but thank you for that question lee middleton and thank you

[6:19:09] Trustee Luckham: for the answers. I just want to draw us back a minute to kind of wrap up maybe the marine piece

[6:19:15] Trustee Luckham: and just briefly mention the Roberts Bank thing and certainly provide you an opportunity for input

[6:19:20] Trustee Luckham: there. You know, we had sort of a social opportunity scheduled around a normal break that we would do

[6:19:26] Trustee Luckham: at three o'clock today. And I'd like to continue to move into that break because we've had an

[6:19:30] Trustee Luckham: incensed financial session up until then. And then we'd come back in 15 minutes, if that's all right

[6:19:36] Trustee Luckham: with you and then maybe continue a more of a general q a you if you've got questions for us

[6:19:41] Trustee Luckham: about our governance and what's important um and then vice versa but if that's all right i'll ask

[6:19:47] Trustee Luckham: emily to put that first slide back up on the screen that you had that showed the two marine

[6:19:51] Trustee Luckham: terminals of robert's bank it's called robert's bank too yeah i just sort of put this uh picture

[6:19:57] Trustee Luckham: there's two pictures up that are before this is robert's bank as it exists today on the first

[6:20:02] Trustee Luckham: slide. I'll just keep that on the first part of that. Yeah. So that's at Tawasin. I think everybody

[6:20:07] Trustee Luckham: is well aware of that. When you come into Tawasin on the ferry, that's on your left. And that's where

[6:20:14] Trustee Luckham: the bulk cargo is and the coal terminus. And certainly over the years, you're all well aware

[6:20:20] Trustee Luckham: of the near misses and risks that exist there day to day and the waterfowl and everything else and

[6:20:26] Trustee Luckham: and that crab and the orcas and everything that's impacted.

[6:20:30] Trustee Luckham: So the proposal for the Roberts Bank 2 is the next slide, if you can scroll that back up,

[6:20:34] Trustee Luckham: just to put it into context, with the old, the existing terminus,

[6:20:38] Trustee Luckham: and what is proposed is the new terminus, which is building an island

[6:20:43] Trustee Luckham: with a number of vessels on the outside that you can see there

[6:20:46] Trustee Luckham: that is supporting ostensibly the container traffic into the lower mainland.

[6:20:52] Trustee Luckham: land. And then what I have here for notes, just to put it all into shape, is that certainly marine

[6:20:59] Trustee Luckham: advocacy has been something we've been doing since 1979, and it broadly involves vessel traffic,

[6:21:05] Trustee Luckham: anchorages, and oil spill prevention. Trust, and I mentioned earlier that this area is one of four

[6:21:13] Trustee Luckham: in Canada identified as the greatest risk of marine oil spill in all of Canada. So we're

[6:21:21] Trustee Luckham: We're glad that indeed marine traffic and infrastructure projects that are being implemented in the port and in other areas are being undertaken.

[6:21:31] Trustee Luckham: And there is certainly an eye for prevention and reduction of risk.

[6:21:37] Trustee Luckham: And through this Roberts Bank process, I've participated in some of the hearings.

[6:21:43] Trustee Luckham: It's been relatively quiet recently, so nothing too recent because it's gone through two environmental impact studies, of which the most recent in consulting with local communities and indigenous groups determined that in order for the project to go forward, there are 370 legally binding conditions that need to be met.

[6:22:05] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, opportunities and working with nations has facilitated some of that as well.

[6:22:14] Trustee Luckham: So ostensibly, though, what we're out to do is protect the environment, local wildlife and land use activities of Indigenous peoples in that area.

[6:22:23] Trustee Luckham: And the question for most of our constituents is, is it enough?

[6:22:27] Trustee Luckham: And should this project move forward even with the conditions?

[6:22:31] Trustee Luckham: That said, the federal government has decided it's going to move forward.

[6:22:35] Voice 11: So

[6:22:35] Trustee Luckham: what we wonder is what more needs to be done with the protection of southern resident killer whales, Chinook salmon, western sandpipers, some of the species that are impacted in their habitat.

[6:22:48] Trustee Luckham: And so I think that my question to you is, because I know that you raised this, your citizens are very concerned about how that spillover impact in Puget Sound and around the Salmon Islands.

[6:23:05] Trustee Luckham: is going to impact them.

[6:23:06] Trustee Luckham: And so I'm interested to hear from you

[6:23:08] Trustee Luckham: what you're hearing from your constituents.

[6:23:11] Trustee Luckham: And I'm certainly happy to hear from my council here

[6:23:14] Trustee Luckham: if they have any observations or comments

[6:23:16] Trustee Luckham: that they'd like to share with you about this terminus.

[6:23:19] Trustee Luckham: And let's not be mistaken,

[6:23:21] Trustee Luckham: this is a huge economic impact.

[6:23:23] Trustee Luckham: It's of economic interest to the country.

[6:23:26] Trustee Luckham: But I also say, you've heard me say this before,

[6:23:28] Trustee Luckham: this preservation and protection of the Gulf Islands

[6:23:30] Trustee Luckham: is also in the economic interest of this country.

[6:23:33] Trustee Luckham: So over to you to hear what you're hearing

[6:23:37] Voice 26: from your constituents.

[6:23:43] Voice 26: The level of concern

[6:23:45] Voice 28: is very high, I would say, among our constituents and especially among people with much marine health awareness.

[6:23:54] Voice 28: awareness. I think there are concerns over disturbance to the sediments, forage fish

[6:24:01] Voice 28: habitat, eelgrass, and basically food chain. What is going to happen to the SRKWs? And we know that

[6:24:10] Voice 28: the vast majority of the salmon that come down to hang around the San Juan Islands and get sacked

[6:24:18] Voice 28: are coming from the Fraser River. What happens to this run? And what can we do to support you

[6:24:28] Voice 28: on this? I know we've sent joint letters in the past. We've asked our own legislators to

[6:24:35] Voice 28: register their concerns, our department of ecology to weigh in. It sounds like at this

[6:24:43] Voice 28: point what we're looking at is that we need to be very supportive of um the uh of holding feet to

[6:24:52] Voice 28: the fire on meeting the um 370 conditions you said that's

[6:25:00] Voice 26: right yeah well

[6:25:01] Voice 28: um so what can we

[6:25:03] Voice 28: what can we do to to help you with that i guess would be my question yeah

[6:25:08] Trustee Luckham: i can't say i have an

[6:25:09] Trustee Luckham: answer for that, other than seeing how the project continues to unfold. I don't believe

[6:25:15] Trustee Luckham: construction has started yet. And there may be a number of conditions that need to be met before

[6:25:20] Trustee Luckham: that happens. But I'd say let's stay in touch about it. And anything that you hear would be

[6:25:25] Trustee Luckham: greatly appreciated. This kind of advocacy, I'll just say, is difficult for us, because it's

[6:25:31] Trustee Luckham: outside of the scope of our legislative mandate to preserve and protect and provide land use

[6:25:36] Trustee Luckham: planning. Certainly

[6:25:38] Trustee Luckham: our citizens are concerned about the impacts on the shorelines and the

[6:25:43] Trustee Luckham: economic livelihood of people that live on the islands, because as we've indicated earlier,

[6:25:47] Trustee Luckham: an oil spill would be catastrophic and it would definitely impact many aspects of our lives in

[6:25:54] Trustee Luckham: the Gulf Islands.

[6:25:55] Voice 28: Right. And, you know, the economic arguments always puzzles me because

[6:26:01] Voice 28: because when you come right down to it, you cannot eat oil or coal.

[6:26:05] Voice 28: You can eat salmon.

[6:26:07] Voice 28: And so the determination that's something that's not at base,

[6:26:18] Voice 28: a piece of our survival out here, is more important.

[6:26:24] Voice 28: It's very puzzling.

[6:26:26] Voice 28: So thank you for the information.

[6:26:27] Voice 28: it sounds like um our best advocacy might then be um through our own government and through our own

[6:26:35] Voice 28: voices yeah cindy

[6:26:40] Voice 24: if i can just add on to what you just stated yeah i mean i think um uh the

[6:26:45] Voice 24: economic boon so to speak for canada is really um that that federal perspective right just like oil

[6:26:52] Voice 24: oil sands in Alberta or pipelines through British Columbia I mean so that's the economic imperative

[6:26:59] Voice 24: that the federal government would be arguing is is a priority so that that is what it is right

[6:27:07] Voice 24: that is why this terminal is going ahead as far as the federal government is concerned even with

[6:27:12] Voice 24: 370 conditions I can't help but think that and I by the way Chair Luckum I was interested to hear

[6:27:20] Voice 24: you say that you know advocacy is not a part of the islands trust uh um you know a remit if you

[6:27:26] Voice 24: will and that that then begs the question what are the kinds of things that we as a council can do

[6:27:32] Voice 24: and indeed with our state legislators and our federal legislators to do lobbying

[6:27:36] Voice 24: with corresponding levels of government um not not not just municipalities but at the provincial

[6:27:42] Voice 24: level and even federally um you know to build some momentum and advocacy around for example

[6:27:49] Voice 24: an emergency response tow vessel or or even two goodness gracious that would be more strategically

[6:27:55] Voice 24: placed you know but it strikes me that fine an economic boon is is indeed what a country like

[6:28:02] Voice 24: Canada or even the United States would want for itself and its economy and its people

[6:28:07] Voice 24: and and so you would think that a price for that should indeed be better prevention

[6:28:14] Voice 24: attention, better response, preparedness. And I, you know, I think that if advocacy around an ERTV

[6:28:23] Voice 24: has been somewhat latent, you know, in recent years around your islands, well, then may we

[6:28:31] Voice 24: assist in lighting the fire, shall I say. And I would say that at the present time and probably

[6:28:37] Voice 24: into the foreseeable um future years i think chair wolf would agree with me that um we have

[6:28:44] Voice 24: legislators in our district 40 legislative area where our county is based who are very very um

[6:28:51] Voice 24: very understanding and sensitized and tuned to environmental um in the importance of environment

[6:28:58] Voice 24: and and and the climate uh considerations that our our counties in this in this region are impacted

[6:29:04] Voice 24: by. They are a very, we sing from a similar hymnal in a certain sense when it comes to

[6:29:10] Voice 24: environmental considerations. And indeed, there is a state legislature that is also of a similar

[6:29:16] Voice 24: mind. I think it will be increasingly of a similar mind possibly in the future. And then I think

[6:29:21] Voice 24: similarly on the federal side, and sure, Wolf has more experience working with our federal

[6:29:27] Voice 24: legislators in the state. But my point being at different levels of government in this state,

[6:29:34] Voice 24: And I think we have an audience that is prepared to hear our constituents and our elected officials' concerns about the future with this terminal being included.

[6:29:47] Voice 24: And as both Sam and Cindy know from their work with the Puget Sound Partnership and Ecosystem Coordination Board, many partners across those organizations are deeply keen.

[6:30:00] Voice 24: to to be preservation and prevention oriented in their mindset so all

[6:30:04] Trustee Luckham: right very good thank you so

[6:30:07] Trustee Luckham: i'm going to give my counsel here a 15 minute break and hopefully you can enjoy that too and

[6:30:12] Trustee Luckham: then come back in 15 minutes and then let's pick up the conversation with the housing piece because

[6:30:17] Trustee Luckham: i know i'm interested i know others are very interested in the successes and the models that

[6:30:21] Trustee Luckham: you're using for housing here and you probably have read recently there's a lot there's new

[6:30:25] Trustee Luckham: legislation in British Columbia associated with housing and vacation rental enforcement and the

[6:30:30] Trustee Luckham: like. So let's come back in 15 minutes and we'll continue the conversation. Thank you everybody.

[6:30:35] Voice 28: Chair Luckum?

[6:30:36] Voice 28: Yes.

[6:30:38] Voice 28: I did have one other question in regard to marine health that I would love to be able to

[6:30:43] Voice 28: talk to you about and that's what the awareness is right now for you around PPDQ6 and what kind of

[6:30:51] Voice 28: efforts might be being made for mitigation i'm

[6:30:56] Trustee Luckham: sorry i missed this what the particular topic was

[6:30:59] Trustee Luckham: which this

[6:31:01] Voice 28: is a that's uh tire dust the the preservative and tire dust that is uh that's

[6:31:07] Voice 28: been found to kill uh spawning salmon yeah

[6:31:13] Voice 26: i

[6:31:16] Trustee Luckham: see okay so that's that's an interesting topic and so

[6:31:21] Trustee Luckham: So perhaps we'll come to that after the break, because I don't know if anybody else is familiar with it, but certainly it's, you know, I

[6:31:31] Trustee Luckham: hate to say it, but I'm afraid it's just part of the language of the landscape,

[6:31:34] Trustee Luckham: is that U.S. coal that travels from eastern states through the U.S. and through British Columbia, certainly we're cognizant of that issue with respect to that, but interested in what you have to say there.

[6:31:47] Trustee Luckham: So let's come back in 15 minutes, we'll pick up with that.

[6:31:49] Trustee Luckham: And

[6:31:50] Voice 28: Sam, are you able to hang around for that conversation?

[6:31:53] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I can. Yes.

[6:31:54] Voice 28: Okay. Thank you.

[6:31:55] Voice 28: Thank you.

[6:31:56] Voice 26: All right.

[6:45:38] Voice 26: Chair

[6:45:39] Trustee Luckham: Wolf and Councillor Fuller, are you with us?

[6:45:46] Voice 26: There you are. Perfect.

[6:45:48] Voice 26: Yeah.

[6:45:50] Trustee Luckham: All right. So I hope you had a good break.

[6:45:53] Trustee Luckham: And certainly there was lots of chatter here.

[6:45:56] Trustee Luckham: And I've got filled in on the tire dust question that you have before you.

[6:46:02] Trustee Luckham: And that's a new topic for me. And so and it may be a new topic for others.

[6:46:08] Trustee Luckham: So I'll turn it over to you to advise us on that marine, interesting transportation, marine connection over to you.

[6:46:21] Voice 26: Thank you, Chair Luckham.

[6:46:22] Voice 28: And I'll probably turn this over to Sam pretty quickly.

[6:46:26] Voice 28: But I will say that in 2021, the University of Washington surprised us with a study that showed that there was an additive in our tires that is used to prevent ultraviolet light breakdown of tire materials that killed coho salmon on very low exposure levels.

[6:46:55] Voice 28: and for in very short periods of time and there has since been more information about that it's

[6:47:02] Voice 28: being worked on on the state level and also by the federal epa they're moving very quickly on it

[6:47:09] Voice 28: because it's a very potent toxin apparently for a few different kinds of salmon as well as

[6:47:18] Voice 28: some other species so i'll let sam watch more eloquently on that sure

[6:47:24] Voice 13: thanks chair wolf and

[6:47:27] Voice 13: yeah i would just add you know uh cindy did a good job articulating the history of this and

[6:47:33] Voice 13: you know the the university of washington um research that kind of uh shown light on

[6:47:41] Voice 13: on six PPD and the impact that it's having.

[6:47:45] Voice 13: And so in the state of Washington

[6:47:48] Voice 13: and particularly through the Puget Sound Partnership

[6:47:50] Voice 13: Ecosystem Coordination Board,

[6:47:53] Voice 13: we are involved in discussions

[6:47:58] Voice 13: and working on a state action plan

[6:48:03] Voice 13: to invest on multiple pathways

[6:48:05] Voice 13: to address the issue of six PPD.

[6:48:07] Voice 13: So through the Ecosystem Coordination Board, as of now, there's sort of three priority focus areas in terms of addressing this problem.

[6:48:19] Voice 13: So number one, stormwater management.

[6:48:23] Voice 13: So investing as quickly as possible in removing 6PPG from road runoff and stormwater.

[6:48:31] Voice 13: So whether that's updating planning and regulatory guidance, increasing things like street sweeping of high priority areas, implementing more stormwater infrastructure, you know, that's kind of the top priority is just to try to get 6 PPD out of the system.

[6:48:50] Voice 13: priority two is the need for more research and monitoring so there's obviously you know this

[6:48:59] Voice 13: is new information and we are learning more about 6ppd and there's a need for more continuing

[6:49:06] Voice 13: coordinated research just to better understand methods for evaluating 6ppd

[6:49:14] Voice 13: um you know looking at things like uh you know effects on humans and other species

[6:49:22] Voice 13: um evaluating 6ppd and sediment and fish tissue uh field sampling that sort of thing so there's

[6:49:31] Voice 13: just a need to better understand how 6ppd is occurring in the system and then finally the

[6:49:38] Voice 13: third priority which is a little more of a longer term thing is to just get tires uh with six ppd

[6:49:45] Voice 13: off of roads in the state of washington so as you might imagine uh that's a longer term action

[6:49:52] Voice 13: that is going to take a lot of work to to make any headway on but um you know addressing the

[6:50:00] Voice 13: existence of this toxic chemical in tires on the roads um is something that the ecosystem

[6:50:07] Voice 13: System Coordination Board identified as a priority by the year 2030, so that involves

[6:50:14] Voice 13: looking at alternatives, implementing and identifying alternatives to 6 PPD, working

[6:50:21] Voice 13: with manufacturers, conducting alternative assessments to identify what those alternatives

[6:50:31] Voice 13: might be. And then just continuing to coordinate with other states, the EPA, and other regulators.

[6:50:40] Voice 13: So that's just kind of a quick, high-level overview of how the state of Washington is

[6:50:48] Voice 13: kind of working on tackling this issue.

[6:50:52] Voice 28: And I did send Chair Luckham a link to the EPA page

[6:50:58] Voice 28: page on six PPD QAnon. So hopefully, if you have interest in this, he'll be able to share that out

[6:51:06] Voice 28: conveniently.

[6:51:08] Trustee Luckham: Okay, yeah. So if you send that to me, I'll make sure it gets shared out to trustees

[6:51:11] Trustee Luckham: and staff. And I'll just ask around the table here. Are there any questions on this topic?

[6:51:18] Trustee Luckham: Anybody? Not

[6:51:21] Trustee Luckham: seeing anything. So oh, I got so there's one from Suellen Fast. Go ahead.

[6:51:26] Trustee Luckham: ahead.

[6:51:27] Trustee Fast: Hi, and thanks for the info. I had heard a little bit about this, but you're far closer to

[6:51:33] Trustee Fast: it. Can you tell me, do you know, is this a chemical that can get down into the groundwater

[6:51:39] Trustee Fast: of islands over time? And if so, how

[6:51:42] Voice 26: are you addressing that? So I think

[6:51:51] Voice 13: that's one of the

[6:51:51] Voice 13: items that has sort of been identified in that priority, you know, the need for additional

[6:51:56] Voice 13: additional research. I think there's a sense that it could get down into the groundwater and could

[6:52:02] Voice 13: have, you know, impacts on humans, but I think that's something that just requires additional

[6:52:08] Voice 13: research at this point in time. So as of now, I'm not, you know, I'm aware of research, ongoing

[6:52:14] Voice 13: research that is, has been identified, but nothing specific that speaks to groundwater impacts at

[6:52:23] Voice 13: at this point in time.

[6:52:25] Voice 13: This is all very, very new.

[6:52:27] Voice 13: This process is all very new, so.

[6:52:30] Trustee Luckham: Okay, well, another question

[6:52:31] Trustee Luckham: from South Pender Island, Christina Evans.

[6:52:35] Trustee Evans: Thank you.

[6:52:36] Trustee Evans: This is very new to me.

[6:52:38] Trustee Evans: It's something I've not heard of before,

[6:52:40] Trustee Evans: and apparently you've got a lot more information than we do.

[6:52:43] Trustee Evans: Do you have any, I don't know quite how to phrase it,

[6:52:49] Trustee Evans: brochures or materials that are educational

[6:52:53] Trustee Evans: for your islands that perhaps we could borrow, from lack of a different word, so that we can

[6:53:03] Trustee Evans: perhaps gain some of your insights and spread some awareness at our end as well. Absolutely.

[6:53:11] Voice 13: We don't have anything that we've put out that's islands, that's San Juan County specific at this

[6:53:16] Voice 13: point in time, but there is a lot of information coming through the state that has been put out

[6:53:22] Voice 13: regarding this so we can certainly share some of those resources right

[6:53:27] Trustee Luckham: and presuming that this work

[6:53:30] Trustee Luckham: came from university of washington they must have connections to university and federal fisheries

[6:53:36] Trustee Luckham: here in canada um because obviously the we have a common interest there and although you touched

[6:53:43] Trustee Luckham: briefly and thank you so well and fast for kind of touching on the human impacts and and indeed

[6:53:49] Trustee Luckham: it's not so much through drinking water, but in lower levels where it's an associated mortality

[6:53:59] Trustee Luckham: of salmon fry. Does it follow through the food chain in any way, shape, or form? Because I know

[6:54:07] Trustee Luckham: that some of these toxins, lead, mercury, and the like in salmon today, which is tragic to

[6:54:13] Trustee Luckham: to think about that. Indeed, there are often, I'm aware of, advisories to folks that consume

[6:54:21] Trustee Luckham: more fish than I do, that regular fish consumption is problematic. Is this a similar situation?

[6:54:32] Voice 26: You know, that's

[6:54:33] Voice 13: a good question. The study that was released really looked at the impact

[6:54:40] Voice 13: on juvenile coho and you know they are particularly vulnerable just given the fact that

[6:54:47] Voice 13: they spawn in you know smaller tributaries and they you know can be much more the the impact

[6:54:55] Voice 13: and the concentration of this chemical can be much greater and you know the the places that

[6:55:01] Voice 13: coho tend to spawn it can be much more acute um so i think you know i think there's the initial

[6:55:11] Voice 13: study really focused on coho but i think there was acknowledgement that there is potential for

[6:55:16] Voice 13: you know concentration in the system and you know this this uh chemical working its way through the

[6:55:24] Voice 13: food chain certainly okay

[6:55:26] Trustee Luckham: um i don't see any other questions here should we move on to the housing

[6:55:30] Trustee Luckham: conversation so perhaps

[6:55:34] Voice 28: I would I would chime in that there's been like as of this month there's

[6:55:40] Voice 28: been work released on the effects of PPD on or 6 PPD on several invertebrate species so it is

[6:55:50] Voice 28: something that you know I think it's very perceptive of you to ask that question it is

[6:55:54] Voice 28: something that is affecting um creatures lower down on the food chain okay

[6:56:02] Trustee Luckham: thank you um on the

[6:56:04] Trustee Luckham: housing topic here you may have heard we've had a lot of very recent in the last week or 10 days

[6:56:11] Trustee Luckham: um uh and and in implementations at the beginning of the new year with respect to legislation

[6:56:17] Trustee Luckham: surrounding uh housing and affordability and short-term vacation rentals and um and that

[6:56:23] Trustee Luckham: That sort of thing. And Laura Patrick, trustee from Salt Spring Island, one of the largest populated island in the Amish Trust area,

[6:56:35] Trustee Luckham: certainly has a significant homelessness and housing affordability and access issues.

[6:56:44] Trustee Luckham: And I think she has her finger on the pulse of this, working hard for her communities to advance housing.

[6:56:51] Trustee Luckham: And I just ask you to maybe provide us, provide San Bernard County, for instance, a quick summary on the significance and the nature of the new legislation, which has just come through.

[6:57:07] Trustee Patrick: I'll give you a quick highlight because most of it we are exempt from.

[6:57:11] Trustee Patrick: There are some major pieces.

[6:57:13] Trustee Patrick: One was on the vacation rental that brought in some new responsibilities, but you have to opt into it.

[6:57:23] Trustee Patrick: We didn't fall into a community that it was automatically put onto,

[6:57:29] Trustee Patrick: so we're making our way through understanding what that is

[6:57:31] Trustee Patrick: and who may or may not opt into it.

[6:57:35] Trustee Patrick: The speculation of vacancy tax is another tool that they do use.

[6:57:39] Trustee Patrick: They've just expanded it again, and guess what?

[6:57:42] Trustee Patrick: They didn't include our islands because I think they just don't know

[6:57:46] Trustee Patrick: how to deal with the islands where it has a percentage

[6:57:53] Trustee Patrick: of second homes and things of that nature so they're that's causing some headaches um the

[6:57:59] Trustee Patrick: other is they just did a whole bunch of amendments to housing statutes in the local government act

[6:58:07] Trustee Patrick: we are exempt from the density pieces which they would have allowed accessory dwelling units in

[6:58:12] Trustee Patrick: most areas but not in our area but we do have to update some housing needs reports and we can

[6:58:20] Trustee Patrick: can bypass public hearings if the proposed project generally meets our official community plan,

[6:58:29] Trustee Patrick: kind of like your comprehensive plan. But I'd like to hear from you guys a lot, because you

[6:58:34] Trustee Patrick: have one comprehensive plan for many islands, where we have an official community plan, as we

[6:58:40] Trustee Patrick: call it on our side of the border, for almost every one of our islands. So a very different

[6:58:44] Trustee Patrick: different approach, as well as I'd like to hear you talk about the little percentage from the

[6:58:51] Trustee Patrick: real estate sales that you get and how you use that money. And I think that's, I'll turn it over

[6:58:59] Trustee Patrick: to you. Thank you, Laura.

[6:59:06] Voice 28: All right. Boy, that was, thank you for that. I will tell you that

[6:59:14] Voice 28: that we envy your vacancy tax possibilities.

[6:59:19] Voice 28: And we in Washington state grapple with the fact

[6:59:24] Voice 28: that vacancy taxes and taxing second homes

[6:59:30] Voice 28: at any higher rates than primary residences

[6:59:34] Voice 28: is also not legal according to the state constitution.

[6:59:38] Voice 28: So that presents some challenges.

[6:59:39] Voice 28: Your specific questions were about how the comprehensive plan looks.

[6:59:47] Voice 28: We have a comprehensive plan for the county.

[6:59:53] Voice 28: We also, in developing the comprehensive plan, have

[7:00:00] Voice 28: committees, if you will. There are area plans that are associated with hamlets and urban growth

[7:00:08] Voice 28: areas. So Lopez Islands, the village has a small planning commission that's part of developing that

[7:00:20] Voice 28: village plan. And on Orcas, for instance, East Sound has a planning review commission that's

[7:00:27] Voice 28: part of developing for the ESO and UGA a plan. We are approaching, we just got our comprehensive

[7:00:38] Voice 28: plan finished that was six years overdue and we are now in the process of gearing up for the one

[7:00:48] Voice 28: that is due in July 2025. Our comprehensive plan, I don't know exactly what your plans look like,

[7:00:55] Voice 28: Our comprehensive plan has different elements to it, things like transportation, energy, housing.

[7:01:06] Voice 28: Everything's based on population projections, of course, and the restrictions that are built in.

[7:01:12] Voice 28: It's a very useful planning tool as far as being able to contain sprawl, because we are supposed to be directing at least 50% of growth into the designated urban growth areas, which then leaves a lot of room for open space and control of density in

[7:01:34] Voice 26: the open areas.

[7:01:40] Voice 26: Let's see, what was the other part of the question?

[7:01:44] Voice 26: question. The

[7:01:45] Trustee Patrick: percentage that you get some real estate tax.

[7:01:50] Voice 28: Yeah, so we I don't know if I said this yet.

[7:01:53] Voice 28: Forty percent of our housing is seasonally off.

[7:01:56] Voice 28: So we're about 60 percent year round.

[7:02:00] Voice 28: And we have essentially there are enough

[7:02:04] Voice 28: residential units in our county for

[7:02:11] Voice 28: I believe the last calculation was

[7:02:14] Voice 28: You could have 1.8 people in every single building.

[7:02:19] Voice 28: And you would be able to cover our housing needs.

[7:02:23] Voice 28: Unfortunately, that housing is not available for year-round residents for many different reasons.

[7:02:32] Voice 28: But, you know, largely it's people who can't afford second homes, which is lovely.

[7:02:39] Voice 28: You know, it's good for our economy.

[7:02:41] Voice 28: I understand why people want to be out here for the summertime, but it does present a problem in terms of being able to house our year-round residents.

[7:02:51] Voice 28: And we are really, I don't know about you folks, but we are experiencing a lot of pressure right now in our real estate market from people who are in hotter climates who want to have second homes or move here year-round.

[7:03:07] Voice 28: and so there's a lot of demand right now for real estate here and we've seen huge jumps in prices

[7:03:13] Voice 28: we did finally negotiate for vacation rental caps and so we got those in place we've settled

[7:03:22] Voice 28: on a per island formula and then an overall cap and it's and unfortunately it's very much

[7:03:34] Voice 28: impact at our long-term rental market. We don't have enough inventory in long-term rentals to be

[7:03:46] Voice 28: able to offer to our people who need that kind of housing. As far as our REITs is concerned,

[7:03:53] Voice 28: the real estate excise tax, that percentage goes into the home fund. And it's really quite helpful

[7:04:01] Voice 28: because a lot of those state and federal funds are restricted to building housing for people

[7:04:09] Voice 28: who have 50 to 80 percent of area median income whereas we can determine our own metric for

[7:04:16] Voice 28: county funds and so right now that's set at about 115 percent of area median income

[7:04:22] Voice 28: so to some extent we can use it to ameliorate the problem with housing our workforce

[7:04:26] Voice 28: course but it's not enough right now and we are experiencing that as a housing crisis and I invite

[7:04:34] Voice 28: Jane to jump in here.

[7:04:38] Voice 24: Thank you Cindy. This is definitely one of Cindy's files. She follows

[7:04:43] Voice 24: really closely. She sits on our housing advisory committee as our council liaison which is a very

[7:04:48] Voice 24: robust committee. Cindy will tell you great people who are working on housing in the county,

[7:04:54] Voice 24: great organizations and so um the county gets a lot of very good advice from that committee but

[7:04:59] Voice 24: also from uh the staff person one primary in our health and community services department

[7:05:05] Voice 24: who's responsible for housing um cindy can also um elaborate it where i miss on um some of the

[7:05:13] Voice 24: councilmatic taxing that has been passed by the legislature what that means is um the legislature

[7:05:19] Voice 24: legislature has given counties the right to pass a one-tenth of one percent sales tax for

[7:05:28] Voice 24: affordable housing. That was introduced, correct me if I'm wrong, Cindy, in the legislature maybe

[7:05:33] Voice 24: back in 2018 or so. And so what that means is councils can take a decision as a council not

[7:05:43] Voice 24: not having to go to the ballot for the voters to vote on it to pass a one-tenth of one percent

[7:05:48] Voice 24: sales tax for affordable housing and so the council just elected to pass that tax this year

[7:05:56] Voice 24: I think it was in September or October Cindy we passed that and that will bring approximately

[7:06:03] Voice 24: $800,000 a year to our home fund that Cindy just referenced which is managed by our health and

[7:06:10] Voice 24: community services department and um and a portion of that um that sales tax is going to be collected

[7:06:17] Voice 24: is actually going to allow for the hiring of housing coordinator staff persons within the

[7:06:24] Voice 24: three primary um family resource centers that exist on lopez orcas and san juan islands who

[7:06:30] Voice 24: are also instrumental in working with um our our land trusts our home trusts and other not-for-profits

[7:06:37] Voice 24: that are housing organizations in our county.

[7:06:40] Voice 24: So in addition to the REIT, the Real Estate Excise Tax,

[7:06:45] Voice 24: we now have that one-tenth of 1% affordable housing tax

[7:06:50] Voice 24: that we've passed legislatively.

[7:06:55] Voice 24: Cindy, did you want to elaborate on any of that a little bit more?

[7:06:59] Voice 28: Yeah, we've found, I think during the COVID crisis,

[7:07:03] Voice 28: Our nonprofit partners were working to try to house some of the unhoused people in the islands and found that people who were chronically unhoused here were largely from the islands.

[7:07:23] Voice 28: They have become homeless here and were not coming in as some of the mythology had it from outside of our communities.

[7:07:32] Voice 28: and the efforts that were made they were able to house people temporarily in trailers and rvs

[7:07:42] Voice 28: so that during covid they had some place where they could live in relatively isolated surroundings but

[7:07:49] Voice 28: um it was clear that a number of those people you could you could house them but you needed

[7:07:59] Voice 28: its due supportive services in order to keep them housed. And this is probably not surprising to

[7:08:04] Voice 28: Canadians, but the United States maybe has something to learn. And so part of what this

[7:08:12] Voice 28: sales tax allows is for us to have caseworkers. That money can actually be used for caseworkers,

[7:08:19] Voice 28: not just for building the physical homes themselves. And that, I think, will go a long

[7:08:26] Voice 28: wage for its giving some stability to people and getting them into a place where they can

[7:08:33] Voice 28: build their lives to stay housed.

[7:08:37] Voice 24: Cindy can I just add one or two quick points on that to follow on.

[7:08:41] Voice 24: So one of the things that our housing program coordinator does annually is a point in time

[7:08:46] Voice 24: homeless count and council had a presentation on this from him just two weeks ago. It's actually

[7:08:52] Voice 24: the presentation that Cindy forwarded to you or to Chair Luckham. And if I'm correct, our

[7:08:59] Voice 24: point-in-time homeless count of either homeless or at risk of being homeless population has

[7:09:05] Voice 24: remained relatively stable. It's that population Cindy just referred to that is pretty much island

[7:09:11] Voice 24: based. It's not coming to the islands. It's about 145 people or so in the county. And I think an

[7:09:19] Voice 24: an area um that that we recognize we need probably to do more work on um is is how are we what are

[7:09:28] Voice 24: we thinking about in terms of temporary housing um what i think we put a robust amount of effort

[7:09:33] Voice 24: and funding and work into um some housing builds that have already happened that will continue to

[7:09:39] Voice 24: happen that are going to provide homes for folks with much lower incomes um and folks who need to

[7:09:46] Voice 24: work in our workforce across the county but we are very challenged when it comes to homeless youth

[7:09:52] Voice 24: and it comes to just homeless adults who often need they often have mental health issues

[7:09:58] Voice 24: addiction issues substance abuse issues and that is an area where we are challenged if you can

[7:10:05] Voice 24: manage imagine in the village of lopez island we now have approximately four homeless people in

[7:10:11] Voice 24: the village and so um and numbers are greater um uh on on the other islands but that challenge is

[7:10:19] Voice 24: real i i would be interested i think cindy would be interested to our council be interested in

[7:10:24] Voice 24: understanding um a little bit from your trust council um what are what are you uh doing to try

[7:10:31] Voice 24: to support your homeless population on a temporary basis as as as your uh trust council um uh reps

[7:10:40] Voice 24: work with your local government reps to define more stable housing in the near and medium and

[7:10:47] Voice 24: longer term. So that's something we're, I think we're challenged with currently and going forward.

[7:10:55] Voice 28: I'm also interested in knowing what your legal structure is around camping, because one thing

[7:11:03] Voice 28: that we have encountered, there was a legal decision in the Ninth Circuit, which is the

[7:11:13] Voice 28: 2020, I think is when it came up, 2020, 2021. And it was around the city of Boise, got sued

[7:11:23] Voice 28: because people who, unhoused people were being moved off of public property. And so

[7:11:32] Voice 28: the court said it is not legal to ask somebody to leave public land if you have no place for

[7:11:42] Voice 28: them to go if there's not a legal place for them to camp or to or to stay and I'm wondering if you

[7:11:49] Voice 28: have similar situation there and kind of how you're handling that what kind of solutions

[7:11:58] Voice 28: you might have and what difficulties you might be encountering as far as use of your recreational

[7:12:05] Voice 28: spaces.

[7:12:08] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, well, thank you for that, which is indeed a serious concern for all of us on a human

[7:12:16] Trustee Luckham: scale, let alone government scale. We unfortunately don't have the ability or infrastructure

[7:12:24] Trustee Luckham: or legislative authority to create and provide housing in these situations. The province does

[7:12:32] Trustee Luckham: that. They do that in the urban centers more so than in any rural locations, although certainly

[7:12:39] Trustee Luckham: in some rural locations. So that's a challenge for us. But there was a murmur around the room

[7:12:47] Trustee Luckham: when you mentioned camping, because indeed that's a self-help mechanism that individuals are doing

[7:12:53] Trustee Luckham: in sea islands, perhaps as refuge places, especially when camping is being eliminated or

[7:12:59] Trustee Luckham: controlled in the urban centers those people end up finding other places to go because

[7:13:06] Trustee Luckham: there isn't anywhere for them to go or they're just not made welcome and so really big challenges

[7:13:13] Trustee Luckham: obviously around the room here Laura Patrick again on Salt Spring Island which indeed again

[7:13:18] Trustee Luckham: I'll say is the largest populated island in the region and it's more acute for that community

[7:13:23] Trustee Luckham: Over to you, Laura.

[7:13:26] Trustee Patrick: Our province was processing some statutes to look at dealing with just what you said, removing encampments.

[7:13:36] Trustee Patrick: And it got stopped because they were supposed to be able to say they could only remove them if there were enough units or enough places for those people to go.

[7:13:46] Trustee Patrick: So it's kind of stopped at the moment while they go back and talk to most of the larger urban areas to figure that out.

[7:13:55] Trustee Patrick: But we have that same problem here on Salt Spring.

[7:13:58] Trustee Patrick: The Islands Trust is a bit unique in that we are focused on the land use elements of the decisions.

[7:14:06] Trustee Patrick: So we have to work in partner with other levels of government to collectively address these issues.

[7:14:15] Trustee Patrick: And we have gaps the size of, you know, the Grand Canyon and a few places there, which are, you know, very, you know, harmful to the people that live there.

[7:14:25] Trustee Patrick: Camping is huge.

[7:14:27] Trustee Patrick: Live aboards is huge.

[7:14:28] Trustee Patrick: I don't know if you're seeing that in your islands.

[7:14:30] Trustee Patrick: We have a lot and a growing number of that.

[7:14:35] Trustee Patrick: So it's kind of a competition on the land and the water for trailers and water where people are having to live.

[7:14:40] Trustee Patrick: um but i don't we don't really have any great solutions here

[7:14:50] Trustee Bernardo: trust you joe bernardo uh thank you um to answer the specific question uh with respect to campaign

[7:14:58] Trustee Bernardo: or the use of when people are squatting or whatever term you want to use on public land uh

[7:15:05] Trustee Bernardo: we're in a similar situation as you are uh in that once you're dealing with public land

[7:15:10] Trustee Bernardo: And there's all sorts of public interest and constitutional issues.

[7:15:15] Trustee Bernardo: It's not impossible to evict people, but it's very complicated.

[7:15:18] Trustee Bernardo: So it becomes a bit of a tortured exercise because there are homeless people are recognized as having some kind of right to some kind of accommodation.

[7:15:31] Trustee Bernardo: And if having a tent in a park is the only thing that's available,

[7:15:36] Trustee Bernardo: The courts aren't going to necessarily just go along with some agency

[7:15:41] Voice 26: that says boot them out.

[7:15:46] Voice 26: Anybody else?

[7:15:48] Trustee Luckham: I'll just follow up on Joe's remark, maybe, that there's a reluctance from a human scale to enforce the shutdown of encampments.

[7:16:01] Trustee Luckham: It has happened where it turns into a life safety issue, fires and those sorts of things.

[7:16:08] Trustee Luckham: um can we ask a question yes yep um you disrupted my train of thought now

[7:16:19] Voice 26: yeah

[7:16:20] Trustee Luckham: um and and so

[7:16:23] Trustee Luckham: uh i've lost it now um and that's all right um but um thank you for that so indeed uh opportunity

[7:16:30] Trustee Luckham: to ask questions from the floor i thought i had asked that actually but all right your

[7:16:35] Trustee Luckham: turn um

[7:16:38] Voice 17: Um, yeah, thanks. It's been really interesting. I'm just curious about how you determine your

[7:16:43] Voice 17: vacation rental caps on your islands. Hornby Island is going through a big review on vacation

[7:16:50] Voice 17: rentals. And yeah, I'd just like to know how you determine like 131 for Orcas or Lopaz or something.

[7:16:57] Voice 17: And you can

[7:16:58] Voice 26: explain that. That'd be great. Thanks.

[7:17:04] Voice 28: Essentially, what we came to was for

[7:17:10] Voice 28: for my island, for Orcas, we established a cap

[7:17:15] Voice 28: at the level that the vacation rental permits

[7:17:20] Voice 28: had been issued at when people started to really protest

[7:17:27] Voice 28: and really register distress

[7:17:32] Voice 28: over the number of vacation rentals

[7:17:34] Voice 28: and what it was doing to the neighborhoods.

[7:17:36] Voice 28: and that there is a part of the island that is a master planned resort and in that portion of

[7:17:47] Voice 28: the island in Rosario you don't have to you can everything could be a vacation rental so

[7:17:54] Voice 28: it's outside of that master planned resort the level was set at 211 permits and that

[7:18:03] Voice 28: That was, it was as of July 31st, 2021, I want to say that was the number of permits.

[7:18:13] Voice 28: And so that's what we went back to, because that's really when people started to feel the distress.

[7:18:21] Voice 28: That's going to mean that new permits on ORCIS aren't going to be issued for quite some time,

[7:18:27] Voice 28: because by the time we got the permits pushed through and established, we were at over 400 permits.

[7:18:33] Voice 28: it's going to have to drop back to that 211 before permits are issued again. And that's it.

[7:18:44] Voice 28: Our permits are issued as land use permits. So and we don't have a business overlay. So there's not

[7:18:51] Voice 28: it's not allowed land use and then a business

[7:18:56] Voice 28: permit to operate. It's just the allowed land use is what allows you to operate an Airbnb.

[7:19:09] Voice 28: So, land use permits are very difficult to remove. At the moment, the rules around the short-term rental permits, you have to keep your license paid up, but you do have a grace period where you can go two years without paying, and then your permit is considered vacated.

[7:19:31] Voice 28: However, there are different rules that apply to permits that were grandfathered in before those regulations were adopted.

[7:19:42] Voice 28: So the regulation about the two-year period dates from, I think, 2019 to 2020.

[7:19:53] Voice 28: And then there are permits that exist before that as well.

[7:19:59] Voice 28: and those permits um it's a you you actually would have to go through um

[7:20:07] Voice 28: hearing examiner in order to remove those permits and show that they were making it so

[7:20:14] Voice 28: go ahead yeah

[7:20:16] Voice 24: yeah just that i would just add um i mean i wasn't i wasn't part of council at the

[7:20:20] Voice 24: time that um uh the council uh decided on on um limits per island uh what i can say is that as i

[7:20:30] Voice 24: as i joined council i heard a lot from both sides as to people who were not satisfied with where my

[7:20:36] Voice 24: predecessor uh set those limits um and uh some were not satisfied some were satisfied and so as i

[7:20:44] Voice 24: tipped my toes into being council member and had watched what council went through over a period of

[7:20:52] Voice 24: at least two years I guess it was Cindy to come to that determination as to what the limits would be

[7:20:58] Voice 24: set at per island it's just very clear that feelings and sentiments are strong on both sides

[7:21:04] Voice 24: and indeed you have people who want and need VRBOs to to survive to live as a living as a means of

[7:21:12] Voice 24: of surviving in terms of income,

[7:21:16] Voice 24: but then you have other interests as well.

[7:21:17] Voice 24: I know that the characteristics of VRBOs

[7:21:20] Voice 24: on Cindy's island on Orcas

[7:21:22] Voice 24: is very, very unique and challenging

[7:21:24] Voice 24: from what I understand

[7:21:25] Voice 24: in terms of even having companies from California,

[7:21:28] Voice 24: correct me if I'm wrong, Cindy,

[7:21:30] Voice 24: who were eyeing VRBOs on Orcas Island

[7:21:33] Voice 24: that really had no vested interest in the islands.

[7:21:35] Voice 24: So it's very complicated.

[7:21:38] Voice 24: It's a complicated web of issues

[7:21:39] Voice 24: that is actually quite interesting

[7:21:42] Voice 24: in terms of how it differs from one island to next but it's not it's very challenging um it's

[7:21:47] Voice 24: a very challenging and contentious subject no question and

[7:21:50] Voice 28: it ate our lunch on long-term rental

[7:21:52] Voice 28: availability really so get a handle on it if if you can i would say from my experience and it was

[7:21:59] Voice 28: a 17-month negotiation from what i can see um people really started to feel the pain at about

[7:22:06] Voice 28: about 6% to 7% of their little housing stock

[7:22:12] Voice 28: was where we started to really feel the complaints.

[7:22:17] Voice 28: The other piece of that is we have something called

[7:22:21] Voice 28: a small B&B that allows people, it's a different permit

[7:22:27] Voice 28: and it's a lot less regulated.

[7:22:31] Voice 28: You have to be within a certain distance

[7:22:36] Voice 28: from a paid county road, and you have to be renting out a space that is either under your

[7:22:44] Voice 28: roof, or if it's an additional dwelling unit, it has to be a place without a kitchen, and so

[7:22:51] Voice 28: essentially, you know, a separated room from your home, but still more or less an extra bedroom,

[7:22:56] Voice 28: and so that does allow for some extra income for people who need it,

[7:23:03] Voice 28: And that seems, it doesn't address everybody's need for the extra income, but it does help significantly for some long-term Islanders who need help meeting those mortgages and property taxes.

[7:23:22] Trustee Luckham: Okay, there's a couple of other questions.

[7:23:24] Trustee Luckham: Susan Yates, and then Toby Elliott.

[7:23:27] Voice 20: Thank you. This is

[7:23:28] Trustee Luckham: very interesting

[7:23:30] Voice 20: and very helpful.

[7:23:31] Voice 20: I was wondering how you came up with the 211 permits, and I'm thinking now that it must

[7:23:38] Voice 20: be related to the availability of housing stock.

[7:23:44] Voice 28: So again, that was the way that that was a recommendation that came from our planning

[7:23:54] Voice 28: commission and it was based on um when when the complaints started to get very loud and it became

[7:24:04] Voice 28: very apparent that um that the year-round population was um feeling the distress on

[7:24:11] Voice 28: orcas and so that's that's where the 211 came from it sounds a little random but it's it wasn't

[7:24:18] Voice 28: random it was if you look at it and you and you look at other places that have seen a lot of

[7:24:28] Voice 28: tourist pressure on their long-term rentals and on their real estate market about six six percent

[7:24:38] Voice 28: to seven percent of housing stock is really that seems to be where people start to feel the pain

[7:24:43] Voice 28: So if I had to quantify it, I would say that's that would be a good number to use.

[7:24:51] Voice 28: There are places where that's where you actually might want to think about going lower than that, because if you're not really a tourist driven economy, there is a good argument for keeping it a little lower than that to make sure that your your long term rental inventory is protected.

[7:25:11] Voice 26: Hi there. Toby Elliott, also from

[7:25:18] Voice 29: Gabriela Island, a population of about 4,500. We do have a permitting process for short-term vacation rentals with a three-year term that's renewable, and it is working fairly well.

[7:25:34] Voice 29: We try to encourage non-compliant short-term vacation rentals to actually go through the process.

[7:25:43] Voice 29: Some treat it as a fine, as a matter of business when enforcement is enacted upon them.

[7:25:52] Voice 29: And so it is a struggle, and we're trying to balance that for sure.

[7:25:56] Voice 29: I'm curious, oh yeah, and so in response to your other question about camping and homelessness,

[7:26:02] Voice 29: Because of our many jurisdictional orders, many of us are in different regional districts which administer the services aspect, so we're mostly land use planning and environmental protection.

[7:26:20] Voice 29: protection um so the RDN the regional district of Nanaimo had enacted a bylaw um that did not

[7:26:27] Voice 29: enforce against people camping in regional parks and that did apply to our area Gabriela Island

[7:26:34] Voice 29: and that was 2020 I think they're having a hard time uh sort of coming back from that and cleaning

[7:26:42] Voice 29: up from the parks that's been a it's been a challenge for sure I don't think the capital

[7:26:46] Voice 29: regional district um passed a bylaw to that effect so i think every response has been different

[7:26:53] Voice 29: and that was again 2020 um and then i was wanting to ask a question about your urban

[7:27:01] Voice 29: growth area model and um so just reading your updated comprehensive plan it's it's it's actually

[7:27:12] Voice 29: It's wonderful to read a totally different approach and your population growth scenarios are, you know, you really get into the minutiae of floor area ratio and how much is allowed.

[7:27:26] Voice 29: But I'm interested in how you've decided to focus growth in already developed areas, so your villages and service centers, and you decided on a percentage of 50% of the island population to be directed at an urban growth area.

[7:27:48] Voice 29: Is that correct?

[7:27:50] Voice 29: And so it's only a year old.

[7:27:53] Voice 29: Is that policy determination?

[7:27:55] Voice 28: That's a state determination. That's part of the Growth Management Act, is that we are mandated to plan for that.

[7:28:06] Voice 29: Okay, and so the amount of growth that you're directing, is that your choice? That's up to the county or that state?

[7:28:14] Voice 29: That statement. Okay. So how is that working out, focusing growth in the urban centers? Is it mitigating the potential impacts on environmental, you know, is it leaving those open spaces? Is it working out to preserve areas that don't want the, or don't need the intensification of housing?

[7:28:42] Voice 28: Jane, do you want to talk about that on Lopez?

[7:28:44] Voice 28: has

[7:28:46] Voice 24: yeah sure um i'll speak to just really briefly because i realize we're we're now past four o'clock

[7:28:51] Voice 24: but um uh and we could perhaps direct you to the state department of commerce's website speaks a

[7:28:57] Voice 24: little bit about our our washington state growth management act that kind of outlines how that

[7:29:01] Voice 24: planning um is directed um uh and and organized um that some counties adopt comprehensive plans

[7:29:09] Voice 24: plans um that are that fall within the the growth management act as a whole so i just recently went

[7:29:16] Voice 24: on a training on that for two days in olympia which was very informative by the way our population

[7:29:21] Voice 24: projections also are based on data that comes from the state and the state provides a methodology

[7:29:27] Voice 24: that um that counties um uh select and and work with to establish their population projections

[7:29:35] Voice 24: projections um for their comprehensive plan period when they update it so we could share a little bit

[7:29:41] Voice 24: of state um based information about that for you that might be interesting um in terms of i would

[7:29:47] Voice 24: just speak to lopez and our urban growth area there's no question in my short my very short

[7:29:51] Voice 24: tenure that um the urban growth area is very much um what is understood to be the area that would

[7:29:58] Voice 24: would get more densified.

[7:30:00] Voice 24: we work to or or gain more density as we work to build more affordable housing with a view to

[7:30:06] Voice 24: indeed preserving the open space which is a lot of ag land on on on lopez island and so my experience

[7:30:15] Voice 24: going through a year with council is that indeed the way in which our densities are zoned is very

[7:30:20] Voice 24: sacrosanct in a certain sense because of the determination of a defined urban growth area

[7:30:27] Voice 24: the process that council members need to go through to work with the planning commission

[7:30:32] Voice 24: and department of community development to even talk about you know

[7:30:35] Voice 24: what variations could be

[7:30:36] Voice 24: considered or the population can submit dockets annually to the county council that go through

[7:30:42] Voice 24: our department of community development and the planning commission for strict review

[7:30:46] Voice 24: but the local regulations and codes we have around what density is and is not allowed is

[7:30:53] Voice 24: indeed very it's very restrictive and I my experience Cindy so far is it's certainly

[7:30:58] Voice 24: playing the role it's meant to play so maybe you just want to add one bit to that and finish that

[7:31:04] Voice 24: up I

[7:31:05] Voice 28: would say on the ground our probably our biggest challenge is is enforcement in terms of

[7:31:13] Voice 28: making sure that people are not putting in ADUs where they shouldn't be or yeah or having little

[7:31:22] Voice 28: little RV villages and that's yeah that's tough but it is I think it's a pretty effective tool

[7:31:30] Voice 28: in terms of keeping the open spaces open as long as council is willing to back the DCD in

[7:31:39] Voice 28: maintaining things like density so it you know but like our we don't have zoning per se we have

[7:31:49] Voice 28: land use plus density numbers. So we'll have like a rural residential five. So one dwelling unit per

[7:31:58] Voice 28: five acres or a rural residential three. And the pressure that we're feeling right now is on those

[7:32:07] Voice 28: big pieces, those 20 acre, 40 acre minimum pieces and people trying to come out of resource land

[7:32:14] Voice 28: designations in order to be able to parcel them down into smaller densities so that's been that's

[7:32:20] Voice 28: a that's a place where uh we feel a lot of pressure to hold the line in order to channel

[7:32:25] Voice 28: that growth into the urban areas and it definitely puts some pressure on real estate prices so that's

[7:32:34] Voice 28: a conundrum it's very hard to see things see people get priced out of the market who you

[7:32:42] Voice 28: You really want to stay there sometimes just for the very self-serving purpose of having a functioning economy.

[7:32:53] Voice 28: But your choice is basically, you're going to have to either create smaller parcels or you're going to have higher real estate prices.

[7:33:03] Voice 28: And, you know, that's a sad reality

[7:33:05] Voice 26: of life on the islands.

[7:33:07] Voice 26: I just wanted to ask, you have a Friday Harbor

[7:33:14] Trustee Patrick: is a municipality within an island and just want to talk about the relationship between the county government and the municipality on sort of the making these type of decisions.

[7:33:23] Voice 26: They

[7:33:27] Voice 28: plan on their own. They also are a Growth Management Act planning community. There was a time way back when counties and municipalities were given the option whether or not to join the Growth Management Act, and then there was a grace period where they could back out again.

[7:33:48] Voice 28: and Friday Harbor chose to plan with the GMA as did San Juan County and so we do

[7:33:57] Voice 28: some cooperative planning but largely their plan is is

[7:34:02] Voice 26: autonomous but it's interesting in as much

[7:34:12] Voice 28: as if their plan can look a lot like what a sub-area plan would look like in terms of

[7:34:20] Voice 28: But on the other hand, where we've got, for instance, on Orcas, our water utility in the urban growth area is an owner cooperative.

[7:34:31] Voice 28: Friday Harbor Town actually owns the water utility. So it's a public water utility.

[7:34:37] Voice 28: So

[7:34:37] Voice 26: there are some definite differences. OK, thank you.

[7:34:44] Voice 26: Are there

[7:34:45] Trustee Luckham: any other questions of a general nature that might be of mutual interest to each of us?

[7:34:51] Trustee Luckham: and i'll ask that question of council here and of san juan county or any other questions and i see

[7:34:58] Trustee Luckham: alec oh i see uh um jane fuller and uh alex allen should we go to jane we'll come back to you

[7:35:06] Voice 24: i'm

[7:35:07] Voice 24: going to just put a plug in for a conversation i would like to have perhaps when we can meet again

[7:35:11] Voice 24: um uh and that is um uh related to the subject matter of ferries and um and that is a i sit on

[7:35:20] Voice 24: on the ferry advisory committee for San Juan County

[7:35:22] Voice 24: as a council liaison person.

[7:35:24] Voice 24: And we have been phenomenally challenged

[7:35:28] Voice 24: as a county of islands, the only one in Washington state

[7:35:33] Voice 24: that uses a ferry system as our highway system.

[7:35:36] Voice 24: We are increasingly being pressured to take stock

[7:35:41] Voice 24: of what we can do as a county for passenger only service

[7:35:45] Voice 24: between our islands and potentially to the mainland.

[7:35:47] Voice 24: land. I won't even get into the ferry to Sydney right now because that's another topic I'd really

[7:35:52] Voice 24: like to talk to you all about because it's when we were told by Washington State Ferries that ferry

[7:35:57] Voice 24: wouldn't be operational again until as early as 2030 that was that was really really tough for

[7:36:04] Voice 24: this county to hear and there's a desire to look at you know what could we potentially do in a

[7:36:10] Voice 24: private manner within this county through private organizations to stand up a ferry service on that

[7:36:16] Voice 24: on that route but back to the passenger ferry issue um the Washington state does not fund

[7:36:22] Voice 24: passenger-only ferries um and uh and yet there is a dire need for some passenger-only ferry

[7:36:29] Voice 24: service and so we're in conversation with the state about um what can they help our county do

[7:36:35] Voice 24: to do to do some planning in that realm and so um you know I understand you know you you exist

[7:36:42] Voice 24: under regional districts and those regional districts are what govern certain uh service

[7:36:47] Voice 24: deliveries and whatnot but i'd just like to have a conversation in the future about you know how you

[7:36:52] Voice 24: how you um what your passenger ferry systems look like and passenger only ferries and if you have

[7:36:58] Voice 24: small car ferry services or or barges or whatnot even if that's not your jurisdiction and domain

[7:37:03] Voice 24: um in a legislative manner i'd like to to learn from you about that in the future

[7:37:09] Voice 24: but we are facing major problems major major problems in this uh in the in the years to come

[7:37:15] Voice 24: and um it's very disappointing to tell your constituents there won't be new boats until as

[7:37:19] Voice 24: early as 28 uh 2028 and uh we have all manner of federal legislation legislation that doesn't allow

[7:37:27] Voice 24: us to bring have boats that are procured internationally um be be built and procured

[7:37:32] Voice 24: here or have uh workers um from outside of this country come and serve in our ferry system we are

[7:37:38] Voice 24: are just phenomenally constrained and um so anyway that's a subject matter for another time but it's

[7:37:44] Voice 24: something that um we are very challenged by and council member wolf knows that all too well because

[7:37:49] Voice 24: her island is particularly dependent on the inner island and so anyway that's all i have to say

[7:37:55] Voice 24: about that but uh um chair luckham i hope that that can be for a future discussion before long

[7:38:01] Voice 24: well

[7:38:03] Trustee Luckham: certainly you've had a really important topic here a number of the trustees um sitting

[7:38:08] Trustee Luckham: here also sit on very advisory commissions throughout the gulf islands and um you know

[7:38:15] Trustee Luckham: there's a

[7:38:15] Trustee Luckham: number of things that have uh unfolded due to the pandemic and and the like and um and

[7:38:21] Trustee Luckham: others say that the ferry service the corporation has suffered uh a lot and indeed the communities

[7:38:27] Trustee Luckham: have suffered as a result of that um my just on my own island in recent weeks with a change out on

[7:38:34] Trustee Luckham: a ferry because of servicing um the ferry doesn't run and and or there's no crew and really big

[7:38:41] Trustee Luckham: challenges and indeed the government the government some might be able to correct me but

[7:38:45] Trustee Luckham: indeed we are seeing uh labor coming in from outside of the province outside of the country

[7:38:52] Trustee Luckham: and there's an there's initiatives there there's even bonuses being paid to get employees to return

[7:38:59] Trustee Luckham: turn after retirement and it's like this really challenging and but indeed i think that's a big

[7:39:04] Trustee Luckham: topic for another conversation but anybody on the ferry advisory committees want to chime in on

[7:39:09] Trustee Luckham: anything particular uh susan yates from gabriola island yes

[7:39:14] Voice 20: i am on the gabriola ferry advisory

[7:39:16] Voice 20: committee um we have very similar problems to yours except that we do actually the bc ferry

[7:39:25] Voice 20: Ferry Corporation has encouraged staff from all over the world

[7:39:30] Voice 20: offering better packages than they ever have before

[7:39:34] Voice 20: so we can get off our ferries

[7:39:37] Voice 20: because that's part of the problem is ferries not running

[7:39:40] Voice 20: because they just don't have crew.

[7:39:43] Voice 20: And this is such an interesting topic

[7:39:45] Voice 20: that I would suggest we have a meeting devoted to this in the next year.

[7:39:51] Voice 11: Okay.

[7:39:52] Voice 20: How about three months?

[7:39:57] Voice 24: by all means that

[7:40:00] Trustee Luckham: might be a challenge for us because that's our budget cycle

[7:40:02] Trustee Luckham: sure

[7:40:03] Voice 24: sure absolutely anyway

[7:40:04] Trustee Luckham: other i see tim peterson who i know has fairy stories and

[7:40:08] Trustee Luckham: alex allen well

[7:40:10] Voice 16: yeah i would just note that uh i was uh i was on my way leaving lopez island in

[7:40:16] Voice 16: september and uh disappointed to find that the sailing was canceled due to a shortage of crew

[7:40:24] Voice 16: which was altogether too reminiscent of common occurrences here.

[7:40:29] Voice 16: So sad to hear that you're, but not surprised to hear that you guys are experiencing similar cruise shortages

[7:40:37] Voice 16: and other challenges that we have here.

[7:40:41] Trustee Luckham: And Tim, I'm surprised you didn't mention that you are a foot passenger only ferry service island.

[7:40:49] Trustee Luckham: and everything else has to come in in a barge and that includes fuel and cars and everything else

[7:40:55] Trustee Luckham: but certainly a struggle and next

[7:40:57] Voice 24: time that happens give me a call you can come have a coffee

[7:41:00] Voice 24: at my place great

[7:41:02] Voice 16: i'll do that

[7:41:03] Voice 17: alex allen you know this is what i was all about theory is my

[7:41:08] Voice 17: question um i read uh because we have major staffing issues with the fairies and i remember

[7:41:13] Voice 17: reading something about you sponsored um like individuals in your community to and actually

[7:41:19] Voice 17: paid for their training memory training to work on the ferries does that still exist and where

[7:41:23] Voice 17: did you get the funding you

[7:41:25] Trustee Luckham: have to get a green card though alex

[7:41:29] Voice 28: to the economic development council is that you yeah is

[7:41:34] Voice 17: that where it is that's where it's driven

[7:41:37] Voice 17: from the uh it's like sponsoring and they pay for somebody to go through training to become a

[7:41:43] Voice 17: ferry worker well i

[7:41:45] Voice 24: mean it's yeah there's there's um the edc our economic development council is um

[7:41:51] Voice 24: is supporting um uh sort of apprenticeships if you will in that way but there's a massive

[7:41:56] Voice 24: investment on well massive it's pretty massive um you know the the uh the state has poured a few

[7:42:03] Voice 24: millions of dollars into um sort of really um emboldening and embolstering the whole training

[7:42:10] Voice 24: training system for crew from top to bottom to to really expedite training at all levels and so it's it's the state is invested a huge amount in the last year in in building up the crewing capacity but indeed there's a lot of effort at the local level that

[7:42:32] Voice 24: that the state supports to encourage young people

[7:42:36] Voice 24: to enter the ferry system as workers.

[7:42:40] Voice 24: But as you know, the graduation of people through the ranks

[7:42:44] Voice 24: is a time sensitive process

[7:42:47] Voice 24: and there's all manner of regulations

[7:42:48] Voice 24: that are in place around that.

[7:42:50] Voice 24: So we have a complex web of state and federal regulations

[7:42:55] Voice 24: related to our crewing and gaining your certifications.

[7:43:01] Trustee Luckham: yeah so i can't help but wonder can hunter whether or not you have some insights to

[7:43:07] Trustee Luckham: employee uh training and and and uh benefits because i know that there's difficulty within

[7:43:14] Trustee Luckham: the corporation with long-term employees and new employees and training yes

[7:43:18] Voice 14: they certainly are

[7:43:19] Voice 14: are hiring from uh largely from ukraine right now and um also they're paying the captain's

[7:43:30] Voice 14: accommodation which of course the union got up in arms so now tracking on that so it's i i sort of

[7:43:39] Voice 14: uh sympathize with bc ferries in some ways

[7:43:43] Voice 26: uh

[7:43:44] Voice 14: covet did create a huge problem for them

[7:43:48] Voice 14: and all an employee has to say is i've got a sniffle or blah blah and they're not going to

[7:43:55] Voice 14: work so yeah yeah

[7:43:57] Voice 14: well

[7:43:58] Voice 24: and you you probably experienced the same thing when covet hit

[7:44:01] Voice 24: with regard to massive retirements we've got an aging workforce that is aging out

[7:44:05] Voice 24: um we've got a struggle in getting a labor and all manner of different workforces and

[7:44:10] Voice 24: that double whammy has really hit our ferry systems i think on both sides of the borders and

[7:44:15] Voice 24: good for you for having the connection you do with ukrainians to to bring them over that those

[7:44:21] Voice 24: options just simply don't exist for the united states um and uh by the way in terms of unions

[7:44:27] Voice 24: indeed that's another conundrum that washington state ferries has to work with um for better for

[7:44:34] Voice 24: worse is the is the power of the unions and uh and their dictates so that's um that's challenging

[7:44:40] Voice 24: unions are good they can be chat they can create challenging for provincial and state entities of

[7:44:45] Voice 24: course yeah but

[7:44:47] Voice 28: it's 13 different unions as i understand it yeah they have to sit at the table

[7:44:53] Voice 28: with so that's a lot of negotiating yeah and um to the growing our own workforce our county has

[7:45:02] Voice 28: because 59% of our county is over the age of 50.

[7:45:08] Voice 28: So there's a big scramble for those young people

[7:45:12] Voice 28: for

[7:45:13] Voice 26: any kind of work.

[7:45:14] Voice 26: Yeah.

[7:45:16] Voice 26: Wow, thank you.

[7:45:18] Voice 26: Susan Yates again.

[7:45:19] Voice 20: Just very briefly,

[7:45:21] Voice 20: despite some of BC Ferries' best intentions

[7:45:24] Voice 20: to hire more people and offer better packages,

[7:45:30] Voice 20: benefits and wages,

[7:45:31] Voice 20: we then come up against the lack of workforce housing on the islands yeah

[7:45:37] Voice 24: oh we we are yep

[7:45:39] Voice 24: absolutely and that's particularly challenging for our inter-island vote because we really need

[7:45:44] Voice 24: the the workers to be based on uh in friday harbor and um that's a real challenge is to get

[7:45:50] Voice 24: uh get people accommodations to live in friday harbor so yeah we're and and across our our

[7:45:56] Voice 24: of service areas as a county we're faced with workforce uh housing challenges be it serving

[7:46:01] Voice 24: our hospital districts our or clinics and hospital and uh the one hospital we have be it serving our

[7:46:07] Voice 24: education system um yeah so workforce housing is a major major challenge for us okay

[7:46:16] Trustee Luckham: i think maybe

[7:46:17] Trustee Luckham: we might have run out of things to talk about today but certainly there's also lots we could

[7:46:21] Trustee Luckham: talk about want to acknowledge that um and so uh we're kind of coming up to this allocated time

[7:46:26] Trustee Luckham: allotment and really want to thank you for making this effort to join us i'm really sorry that you

[7:46:32] Trustee Luckham: couldn't join us in person but indeed let's maybe uh schedule this sometimes when the weather is

[7:46:38] Trustee Luckham: more kind to ferry services and travel and uh and uh and do this again um it is important to be able

[7:46:46] Trustee Luckham: to share with you across the across the sailor sea um the common issues that we're experiencing

[7:46:51] Trustee Luckham: i think i certainly get a sense that this conversation has been good here and i hope

[7:46:55] Trustee Luckham: it's been good for you as well. So thank you for taking the time and we'll look forward to seeing

[7:47:01] Trustee Luckham: you again. Have a good winter season here. Hopefully the weather's kind to you. Thank you

[7:47:08] Voice 24: you too and if you're on the islands don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you nice to meet

[7:47:13] Voice 24: you and we'll be in touch.

[7:47:15] Voice 28: And it's been so important to have this conversation and I hear

[7:47:18] Voice 28: your Victoria at Christmas is lovely.

[7:47:21] Voice 28: So please enjoy.

[7:47:25] Voice 28: And yeah, maybe we should plan this

[7:47:27] Voice 28: for a time when the planes

[7:47:29] Voice 28: will actually fly.

[7:47:30] Voice 28: So

[7:47:31] Voice 24: yeah, yeah.

[7:47:32] Voice 28: All

[7:47:32] Voice 24: right, Chair Luckham

[7:47:33] Voice 24: will be in communication with you

[7:47:35] Voice 24: to see when we can connect again

[7:47:36] Voice 24: and build an agenda,

[7:47:38] Voice 24: perhaps on a follow-up meeting.

[7:47:40] Voice 24: Oh, that

[7:47:40] Trustee Luckham: would be fantastic.

[7:47:41] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, and those links

[7:47:42] Trustee Luckham: that you suggest you would send,

[7:47:43] Trustee Luckham: I would make sure

[7:47:44] Trustee Luckham: that they get circulated to trustees.

[7:47:46] Voice 24: By all means, by all means.

[7:47:48] Voice 24: okay thank you thank

[7:47:49] Trustee Luckham: you take

[7:47:51] Voice 24: care bye-bye

[7:47:51] Voice 26: happy holidays okay

[7:47:58] Trustee Luckham: council we're back to our

[7:48:00] Trustee Luckham: lonesome here so if that's all right i'm going to push through the new business section here and if

[7:48:06] Trustee Luckham: we're lucky i would say that we are well rewarded to finish early if we can and then we'll start up

[7:48:12] Trustee Luckham: fresh in the morning so um the new business items that we have is the disposition of delegations

[7:48:19] Trustee Luckham: delegation's discussion as opposed to this position of delegations, which is tomorrow

[7:48:24] Trustee Luckham: with respect. Well, we didn't have delegations today, actually. So nonetheless, Trustee Peterson

[7:48:31] Trustee Luckham: has been very patient. And I think it says here that this was passed on from September,

[7:48:35] Trustee Luckham: but I think it was passed on from June originally. And so I'm glad that we're here now. So I'm going

[7:48:41] Trustee Luckham: to turn it to Trustee Peterson to introduce the topic and what it is that you're looking for from

[7:48:47] Trustee Luckham: council um

[7:48:49] Voice 16: thank you chair so uh indeed i'm glad uh that that we're gonna have a opportunity to uh

[7:48:55] Voice 16: to hopefully discuss this um briefly it doesn't need to be long my my main purpose was to uh

[7:49:03] Voice 16: generate a little bit of discussion and hopefully um some thought um really driven by past practice

[7:49:12] Voice 16: where Trust Council's heard from delegations

[7:49:16] Voice 16: and come up with some motions on the fly in response.

[7:49:23] Voice 16: I think there might be circumstances

[7:49:27] Voice 16: where there's a specific ask for a letter of support

[7:49:32] Voice 16: or something that's really time sensitive.

[7:49:35] Voice 16: And in those cases, you know, such action might be reasonable.

[7:49:40] Voice 16: reasonable however there's also been some um motions in response to delegations that have

[7:49:48] Voice 16: ended up involving significant staff time um undetermined amounts of uh financial commitments

[7:49:56] Voice 16: and the purpose of bringing this for discussion is for us to think about um do we want to consider

[7:50:06] Voice 16: having some policy around how we approach disposition of delegations I've

[7:50:14] Voice 16: got a number of sort of questions in my in my short briefing here just for

[7:50:19] Voice 16: people to think about but what I'd like to do today is just to is just to

[7:50:26] Voice 16: stimulate the the thought and discussion and then perhaps at some point later at

[7:50:35] Voice 16: at another meeting um and bring forth a request for a decision for some action on this what what

[7:50:42] Voice 16: i really think is inappropriate is hasty uh allocation of staff time and trust council

[7:50:49] Voice 16: resources in a in a response to a delegation however important and compelling the information

[7:50:56] Voice 16: is um it seems to me that it's almost always and less time sensitive it's almost always more

[7:51:04] Voice 16: more prudent to do some analysis, to get some information before committing staff and, you know, to long-term, in some cases, action or requests of the province, et cetera, et cetera.

[7:51:19] Voice 16: So that's my introduction to the topic, and I'd be happy to hear if there's anyone else that thinks that this is something where we might want to do some

[7:51:32] Voice 26: work or consider some policy.

[7:51:35] Voice 26: All right, we'll start with Trustee Evans.

[7:51:42] Voice 26: Oh, Trustee

[7:51:44] Voice 25: Elliott.

[7:51:45] Voice 29: I'm going to harken back to June, was it?

[7:51:51] Voice 29: No, May 19th.

[7:51:53] Voice 29: Those of us who were able to attend the chair training with Lisa's Warren,

[7:51:59] Voice 29: she offered a very helpful matrix with six criteria that should be covered

[7:52:09] Voice 29: potentially to ensure that everybody has the information they need

[7:52:12] Voice 29: to make a decision. So this is part of a larger conversation that we

[7:52:16] Voice 29: need to have at Trust Council, that executive committee we've been talking

[7:52:20] Voice 29: about, CAO's been talking about, structured decision making

[7:52:24] Voice 29: and then with the corporate planning process, we need to

[7:52:28] Voice 29: integrate all these elements together. But what I would offer from

[7:52:32] Voice 29: Lisa Warren's perspective, which was really

[7:52:36] Voice 29: really excellent, is if the six key areas are covered, you can almost be assured you're ready

[7:52:42] Voice 29: to make a decision. And those are mandate and jurisdiction. Is it within our mandate? Is it

[7:52:48] Voice 29: in our authority? That's the first. Risk management. Is it within our capacity? Are we ready to take

[7:52:55] Voice 29: this on? Legality. Are we within the legal bounds to do this? What are the financial implications,

[7:53:02] Voice 29: communications the staff capacity and resourcing and public input and so to my mind hearing from

[7:53:11] Voice 29: the public even if it's an even if it's a topic that is well understood by some trustees

[7:53:17] Voice 29: let's say we're getting public input on um carrying capacity of the islands we've heard

[7:53:24] Voice 29: about this quite a few times um the and it's clearly within our mandate and jurisdiction to

[7:53:31] Voice 29: to decide, you know, densification of our communities,

[7:53:34] Voice 29: but what are the financial implications,

[7:53:37] Voice 29: the staff capacity resourcing, and the legality and stuff.

[7:53:41] Voice 29: So there's ways of structuring this

[7:53:45] Voice 29: where we don't have to just respond.

[7:53:48] Voice 29: And yes, people are looking for that response.

[7:53:51] Voice 29: They make the effort.

[7:53:52] Voice 29: They come to Trust Council, and we want to recognize that.

[7:53:57] Voice 29: However, it leads almost inevitably

[7:54:00] Voice 29: to poor decisions and the fuel as we saw yesterday the follow-up action list is full of

[7:54:07] Voice 29: random things that we're not really sure where they came from the working group that we were on

[7:54:13] Voice 29: sue ellen and alex allen and others um to address the how does the islands trust respond to the

[7:54:21] Voice 29: montreal coming protocol framework was a piece of work but we brought it back and then we're like

[7:54:28] Voice 29: like what do we do with it like there's there's no way to take this in and take it further because

[7:54:33] Voice 29: we haven't had staff come back and go well how does this work into the into the whole and the

[7:54:39] Voice 29: work program that we've already agreed upon right so I'm really supportive of putting up front for

[7:54:46] Voice 29: the public this is our process here are the things that we're going to consider before we undertake

[7:54:53] Voice 29: take a decision with a request that you've brought forward and we can do that in a respectful way

[7:55:00] Voice 29: so everybody knows and is clear on and with those expectations up front trustee

[7:55:07] Voice 25: thank you

[7:55:10] Trustee Evans: um so

[7:55:11] Trustee Evans: pretty much everything that you've spoken about there is part of the corporate planning process

[7:55:15] Trustee Evans: and in addition to that the corporate planning process will take into account

[7:55:21] Trustee Evans: all of the current workload that is on the fuel, and it will take a look at how to fit it into

[7:55:28] Trustee Evans: that workload as well. So this is why the corporate planning process is vitally important. It affects

[7:55:36] Trustee Evans: how we make our decisions, where we make our decisions, when we make our decisions.

[7:55:41] Trustee Evans: So as far as creating a process to cover this, I think it is primarily covered already in the

[7:55:49] Trustee Evans: the work that's being undertaken under the corporate planning process. And part of that

[7:55:55] Trustee Evans: work that we're undertaking right now is looking at policies and procedures and how they fit within

[7:56:02] Trustee Evans: the proposed framework of the corporate planning process and if there are gaps to be identified.

[7:56:08] Trustee Evans: So this is potentially a gap that could be plugged with some words within an existing

[7:56:14] Trustee Evans: existing policy where it's appropriate.

[7:56:18] Voice 25: Trustee Bernardo.

[7:56:20] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, this is really an interesting topic here because really, you know,

[7:56:24] Trustee Bernardo: for you to boil it down to essentials, we're basically being,

[7:56:30] Trustee Bernardo: this is a quarrel with the judgment of the majority of trustees.

[7:56:33] Trustee Bernardo: When it comes up, when a delegation shows up and trust council,

[7:56:38] Trustee Bernardo: a resolution comes forward, there's a vote and then it passes.

[7:56:43] Trustee Bernardo: now you know that's the judgment of the trustees at the time that it's that this is an important

[7:56:48] Trustee Bernardo: thing what we're hearing is abstract considerations at this point about you know staff capacity

[7:56:55] Trustee Bernardo: rushing through things all the rest of it but let's and sometimes i think that does happen and

[7:57:00] Trustee Bernardo: it might be fair to call it a hasty decision but there's also an issue here which is the delegations

[7:57:05] Trustee Bernardo: that i said we corrected this but in the year i've been here the delegations that tend to see

[7:57:11] Trustee Bernardo: action a sense of urgency from the trustees are also the delegations where the members of the

[7:57:18] Trustee Bernardo: public are making a component of their presentation is staff hasn't been responsive the trust hasn't

[7:57:26] Trustee Bernardo: been responsive they're frustrated sometimes they've been here multiple times trying to get

[7:57:33] Trustee Bernardo: their issues addressed and it's a situation where not all delegations result in trustees taking

[7:57:40] Trustee Bernardo: But it seems that when trustees do take action, it's because they see a genuine need.

[7:57:47] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think anybody can argue that the direction the trustees gave the staff to, let's take a hard look at how we do enforcement.

[7:57:58] Trustee Bernardo: No, I don't think anybody can argue that didn't have any value.

[7:58:00] Trustee Bernardo: value uh what we've got back from the ombudsperson's uh assistance uh was a fairly um a comprehensive

[7:58:10] Trustee Bernardo: and gently suggested you know uh instruction that we need to rewrite our policy and get our act

[7:58:16] Trustee Bernardo: together and that's a good thing that's progress and it was provoked by a delegation and that was

[7:58:24] Trustee Bernardo: in the judgment of the trustees so yeah there may be situations where there may be hasty decisions

[7:58:30] Trustee Bernardo: But let's not discount that these outcomes come after a majority of the Trust Council has decided that the issue that they were presented with was sufficiently important to send it to staff to get the work done.

[7:58:46] Trustee Bernardo: And, yes, we do have a follow-up action list that's full of all sorts of stuff, but we can't have the tail wagging the dog here.

[7:58:54] Trustee Bernardo: We do have a difficulty here in setting priorities, but sometimes these are important things that need to be addressed.

[7:59:00] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[7:59:02] Trustee Bernardo: Just to get in

[7:59:03] Voice 33: the medical model, if you go into an emergency department, they triage and they they look at who's already there and and what the workload is and whether or not the staff are there.

[7:59:20] Voice 33: And I think that that metaphor, I suppose, helps me figure this one out.

[7:59:25] Voice 33: I think that people come in the door and they have prepared and they're emphatic and sometimes quite upset or sometimes repetitive.

[7:59:37] Voice 33: And that Tim's list and the other one from the training session, I think, would give us a good outline in terms of how to prioritize and think through so that somebody comes in, we have to figure out who's going to do the triage.

[8:00:00] Voice 33: Looking at whether or not we've already got a policy, whether we need to develop a policy, what's the urgency, you know, what resources and capacity do we have, either staff or committees, and what's our response time so that we can speak to the people fairly quickly in terms of perhaps at the end of a meeting how we're going to deal with a delegation.

[8:00:25] Voice 33: the other one is that's come up in terms of what toby was talking about is

[8:00:30] Voice 33: risk assessment and financial implications so if we can have some sort of a checklist to

[8:00:37] Voice 33: decide somehow whether we're going to delegate that to staff or have a general conversation

[8:00:45] Voice 33: amongst the council that's going to help us figure out where what the next steps are i would

[8:00:52] Voice 33: think so that some sort of a we'll all turn into nurse practitioners and do a triage trustee yates

[8:01:03] Voice 20: um yes thank you for this i think we do need a policy so that's the first star bullet up there

[8:01:11] Voice 20: we do need a policy um and then the next four bullets underneath that would help us develop

[8:01:18] Voice 20: develop a policy pretty quickly. And then we could add the ones mentioned by Trustee Elliot

[8:01:24] Voice 20: from the other training session and not make them redundant. And then I think we'd have a

[8:01:32] Voice 20: really good policy.

[8:01:36] Voice 26: Trustee Borthwick? Yeah, I guess I'm curious.

[8:01:41] Trustee Borthwick: And I, you know, I'm interested

[8:01:42] Trustee Borthwick: in terms of what Trustee Evans was saying in terms of feeling that a lot of this lives within the

[8:01:47] Trustee Borthwick: corporate planning process. I mean, I agree with everything that's been said. I also want to

[8:01:52] Trustee Borthwick: underscore what uh what trustee elliott was saying in terms of the value of uh lisa's warren's uh

[8:01:59] Trustee Borthwick: orientation um i was literally just talking about it outside uh during the break so it was really

[8:02:04] Trustee Borthwick: phenomenal um so i'm wondering do we need to make it do we believe that it already exists inherently

[8:02:11] Trustee Borthwick: enough within the corporate planning process or is it is it would it be valuable for us to make

[8:02:16] Trustee Borthwick: a motion to refer this to a committee or should we refer this to for next trust council um i guess

[8:02:22] Trustee Borthwick: i'm just curious about what's useful um

[8:02:26] Trustee Luckham: so that's great sam i just asked a similar question of our

[8:02:31] Trustee Luckham: legislative services director here who's the most insightful and um so and the response was is well

[8:02:38] Trustee Luckham: out, make a motion to ask staff to consider options for policy. And then we can, that may

[8:02:49] Trustee Luckham: work in parallel with a broader planning development process, but certainly wouldn't

[8:02:55] Trustee Luckham: hurt to have some ideas to kick around. And so it's up to you guys, what you want to do,

[8:03:02] Trustee Luckham: guys and girls. I

[8:03:03] Trustee Borthwick: mean, I'd love to hear what the other trustees have to

[8:03:06] Trustee Luckham: say, but I'm happy to make

[8:03:06] Trustee Luckham: motion if and when well let's continue the conversation if necessary otherwise go to a

[8:03:11] Trustee Luckham: motion trustee mabry

[8:03:13] Voice 23: yeah thank you uh we do have a policy and that's if you don't like the motion

[8:03:19] Voice 23: don't vote for it it's simple everybody voted to put those two motions forward coming out of

[8:03:25] Voice 23: delegations they were voted on and they passed if you believe that they weren't

[8:03:34] Voice 23: didn't meet the criteria or weren't um worthy of right i mean just don't vote for them

[8:03:44] Voice 23: right but when i saw one of those delegations it it became apparent that it was worthy of emotion

[8:03:56] Voice 23: right and i voted for that motion so it's so it's simple right you don't have to do you don't have

[8:04:03] Voice 23: to put staff into a whole bunch of work to develop a policy to do something that tells you not to

[8:04:08] Voice 23: vote for something you don't believe in it's simple

[8:04:12] Voice 23: thank

[8:04:13] Trustee Luckham: you very much ben who else trusty

[8:04:16] Voice 11: oh

[8:04:16] Trustee Luckham: yeah he's

[8:04:19] Voice 11: running the list it'll be elliot

[8:04:21] Voice 10: um yeah i may i do i hope i'm not opening a

[8:04:25] Voice 10: can of worms here but what can we um can we add something if we're talking about a policy

[8:04:31] Voice 10: that dialogue should be going two ways like we shouldn't we we seem to have a policy at least

[8:04:36] Voice 10: that's how we behaved that when a delegation asked actually asks us questions we didn't answer

[8:04:42] Voice 10: them and i feel like that's a it's a it's an opportunity lost we we are complained about that

[8:04:52] Voice 10: we're not very open and transparent and all those things and that would be the one place we would

[8:04:56] Voice 10: make a big difference if we did that and i had a two-way conversation just like we have at this

[8:05:01] Voice 10: table and we could set some limits to it and you know all that it doesn't have to be a free-for-all

[8:05:06] Voice 10: and get crazy but i i think that that really is an opportunity that we should should harvest

[8:05:12] Voice 10: and utilize and i think a lot of other problems might solve be solved through that as well like

[8:05:22] Voice 10: some of the some of the antsiness that kind of lingers as people leave leave their own

[8:05:28] Voice 10: that results in more letters and more upset

[8:05:32] Voice 10: could maybe be alleviated by some simple communication

[8:05:36] Voice 10: that's time. So that's just my suggestion.

[8:05:42] Voice 26: Trustee Morrison. Thank you.

[8:05:48] Voice 4: So we're changing a lot of things inside the trust right now.

[8:05:52] Voice 4: There's a lot of moving pieces. I am extremely reluctant

[8:05:57] Voice 4: to create another policy right now because

[8:06:00] Voice 4: Because there is a lot of moving pieces, right?

[8:06:03] Voice 4: The governance reports doing different things.

[8:06:05] Voice 4: So ironically, I actually would not want to put the development of this policy on the

[8:06:12] Voice 4: plate of staff at this moment in time.

[8:06:14] Voice 4: That doesn't mean I wouldn't consider it or want to come back to it after we think about

[8:06:20] Voice 4: strategic and corporate planning.

[8:06:21] Voice 4: I think it is helpful for the reasons that Trustee Elliott mentioned, to have clarity

[8:06:25] Voice 4: for the public and transparency, because we have a massive problem with that.

[8:06:29] Voice 4: And so I do think that that's going to be extremely helpful to have some clarity on that. I actually was also operating on the understanding that we had a policy around this, because we have had communications from executive and from the chair around what is the practice for engaging in this work.

[8:06:50] Voice 4: And I had assumed somehow that was coming out of policy, but it's probably just practice.

[8:06:55] Voice 4: So for instance, in September, the motions that I put forward after delegations, I sent

[8:07:02] Voice 4: them into the motions.

[8:07:03] Voice 4: I talked to staff about them before I put them forward.

[8:07:07] Voice 4: And I did not move to do something specific.

[8:07:10] Voice 4: I removed to get more information and information from staff.

[8:07:14] Voice 4: So that is my understanding of our practice right now.

[8:07:19] Voice 4: And I agree with Trustee Maberly that if you didn't like any of those things, just vote the motion down.

[8:07:27] Voice 26: Trustee Bourne.

[8:07:31] Voice 41: Well, I can speak from personal experience.

[8:07:34] Voice 41: I made several presentations on the budget feedback process and the fact that it had zero impact on the budget.

[8:07:44] Voice 41: And in the long term, it actually, you know, we don't do that budget feedback process anymore.

[8:07:50] Voice 41: more so I strike that as a success however I do agree that we can vote for whatever we like

[8:07:58] Voice 41: but ultimately it has to go into the corporate planning hopper to be decided whether we have

[8:08:04] Voice 41: the resources whether it's a priority yes or no I agree that we shouldn't you know jump to action

[8:08:11] Voice 41: but we do have the right to say yes I think this is a good idea and then you know and then of course

[8:08:18] Voice 41: As Deb said, you go forward to look for more information.

[8:08:23] Voice 41: You consider where it fits.

[8:08:26] Voice 41: I think that that follow-up action list is a horrible indictment

[8:08:31] Voice 41: of probably best efforts,

[8:08:36] Voice 41: but we need to be more careful and manage that better than we have.

[8:08:41] Voice 41: So I don't think we need to do something specific.

[8:08:44] Voice 41: However, if I talk about the corporate planning process,

[8:08:47] Voice 41: We have come up with, I think, about six policies that need to be updated.

[8:08:53] Voice 41: You know, why don't we have take an extended work group of people to work on those policies?

[8:09:00] Voice 41: There are only three of us right now. And, you know, that's a very practical thing that a few extra people could maybe move along a little faster.

[8:09:11] Voice 41: Thanks.

[8:09:13] Voice 11: You're welcome.

[8:09:14] Voice 11: Oh, I wanted the other speakers

[8:09:16] Trustee Luckham: to go first, but I can chime in if you want to make that decision.

[8:09:20] Trustee Luckham: I just want to make a remark to help move the conversation along, really, and that Tim has asked for some feedback, and we've received quite a bit of that now.

[8:09:28] Trustee Luckham: And there's some notion about advancing motions or taking the advice that we just should sit on this and think about it for a while, which is a good idea, too.

[8:09:36] Trustee Luckham: um one of the questions that i haven't heard comment on which was coming from tim or suggestion

[8:09:44] Trustee Luckham: or thought on this topic is responding quickly to a delegation and that emotion isn't necessarily

[8:09:53] Trustee Luckham: crafted well on spontaneously and indeed we send staff scurrying off on things with man

[8:10:00] Trustee Luckham: not such great direction but absolutely if you don't like it don't vote for it but if you do

[8:10:05] Trustee Luckham: like it it's just badly crafted i want to support it i'm going to vote for it right but then it ends

[8:10:10] Trustee Luckham: up in a situation and you even see that in your ltcs right the emotion is made at your ltc and

[8:10:15] Trustee Luckham: then oh we didn't really mean that and and so i think that mechanism of being thoughtful about it

[8:10:22] Trustee Luckham: which is why we have delegations on the next day to be thoughtful about it and i'm going to turn

[8:10:28] Trustee Luckham: that so i just wanted to share that but two more items before the end of the day so let's uh let's

[8:10:35] Trustee Luckham: Let's determine how long, when we've talked about this.

[8:10:38] Voice 25: Trustee Elliott.

[8:10:40] Voice 29: So I'll be quick.

[8:10:42] Voice 29: If it's a good idea, it will hold.

[8:10:47] Voice 29: And if it needs more information, trustees need to be given the option to have that expressed in a document that they can look at thoughtfully.

[8:10:59] Voice 29: And so what I do object to is the urgency.

[8:11:02] Voice 29: And this is not an intended thing.

[8:11:05] Voice 29: So people present their perspective and their point of view, and they are very passionate, and they want a response. But part of that urgency, I agree, is we've got some issues with communication. So could we do a what to expect when you make a delegation?

[8:11:22] Voice 29: there's a simple one pager here's what we're going to be working through you can expect us to

[8:11:28] Voice 29: consider this the day after and we may direct staff to get more information if we need it

[8:11:34] Voice 29: we may make a motion we may not and so there's a bit of communication to the public so that

[8:11:39] Voice 29: they're not just going what are you going to do about this right now right so there could be a

[8:11:43] Voice 29: what to expect document if it's a good idea we need to run it through and give it a 24 hours so

[8:11:50] Voice 29: So I'm going to suggest why don't we hold delegations at the end of Wednesday business

[8:11:58] Voice 29: because, Dag, to your point, trustees can then talk to the delegates through, you know,

[8:12:05] Voice 29: easing into the dinner hour.

[8:12:07] Voice 29: We can have those conversations.

[8:12:08] Voice 29: Well, what did you mean by that?

[8:12:10] Voice 29: Okay, let me answer your questions.

[8:12:11] Voice 29: We're all coming from a range of experience here.

[8:12:14] Voice 29: It doesn't have to be at the council table speaking with one voice.

[8:12:17] Voice 29: we can talk to uh the delegates and and flesh it out a little bit more and then do the disposition

[8:12:23] Voice 29: on thursday which is what i think you is usually to happen so what's what's to expect when do we

[8:12:31] Voice 29: need to explore get more information um put that up front to our constituents so they're not um

[8:12:36] Voice 29: expecting an answer right away and um and be responsive they have made the effort to come

[8:12:42] Voice 29: here and so let's spend some time with them over dinner maybe yeah

[8:12:49] Voice 11: maybe just on that note just

[8:12:51] Trustee Luckham: share um having been and many of you have the same as me sat at this table for a long time

[8:12:56] Trustee Luckham: and logistics are a piece of that puzzle folks come over from their islands and they come here

[8:13:02] Trustee Luckham: they hear it for an hour and then they go home again and so that window is kind of narrow it

[8:13:07] Trustee Luckham: wouldn't necessarily work for everybody it would need to be fair but i totally agree with what to

[8:13:13] Trustee Luckham: expect in that communication element and and indeed this it doesn't have to happen urgently

[8:13:18] Trustee Luckham: can be communication prior to council and after council and and then come forward so um any

[8:13:24] Trustee Luckham: back to you

[8:13:26] Voice 25: trustee allen thank

[8:13:29] Voice 17: you um i'd like to follow up with what trustee falk said because

[8:13:32] Voice 17: i actually really awkward um and for one we we had these delegations and you didn't ask us if

[8:13:38] Voice 17: if we had any questions.

[8:13:39] Voice 17: And I was confused because I did have a few questions

[8:13:43] Voice 17: because we should, you know,

[8:13:46] Voice 17: when you go into the time to come here

[8:13:47] Voice 17: and I think that we really should be asking them questions.

[8:13:50] Voice 17: I've been told many times that people that, you know,

[8:13:53] Voice 17: I spent a long time at trustee.

[8:13:55] Voice 17: She told me, you know,

[8:13:56] Voice 17: when people come to talk at the meetings

[8:13:59] Voice 17: and you guys don't ask a question,

[8:14:01] Voice 17: it just comes across you're not listening,

[8:14:02] Voice 17: it's totally disrespectful.

[8:14:05] Voice 17: And I really agree with you that we,

[8:14:07] Voice 17: It's not just dialogue, but we should be, you know, come across that we listen.

[8:14:10] Voice 17: So I find it really awkward, frankly, the delegations here, and there's this role of silence, and then they go.

[8:14:16] Voice 17: And I find it very disrespectful.

[8:14:20] Trustee Borthwick: Trustee Bork, which?

[8:14:23] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah, and this, well, ties in a little bit to what Alex was just saying, but also I really appreciate the points that Chair Lockham was making,

[8:14:30] Trustee Borthwick: in that logistically it's very challenging for some people, and especially, you know, there are some issues

[8:14:35] Trustee Borthwick: choose where uh someone will come forward with a really good idea and it's very passionately made

[8:14:39] Trustee Borthwick: and we need like 12 hours to sit even just by ourselves and talk about it or chew it over or

[8:14:46] Trustee Borthwick: look some stuff up or check why x y z hasn't happened um so it's valuable sometimes to have

[8:14:52] Trustee Borthwick: a little bit of distance but asking someone to be there next day for us to have a conversation

[8:14:56] Trustee Borthwick: about it during disposition is wildly impractical for most of our constituents um so you know there's

[8:15:03] Trustee Borthwick: there's challenges there. And I'm trying to be really quick with this. I have a lot of ideas

[8:15:09] Trustee Borthwick: about like, you know, I think this is a really interesting thing. And I think it's a really

[8:15:12] Trustee Borthwick: important thing for us to develop just a better rubric for what our duties in terms of follow-up

[8:15:24] Trustee Borthwick: are after a delegation. And I don't think this is something that necessarily should be chewed

[8:15:30] Trustee Borthwick: to death right now. I think that's something that Trustee Peterson has made really clear.

[8:15:35] Trustee Borthwick: He wanted to start a dialogue and I think we've had a really good one. But I think it could be

[8:15:40] Trustee Borthwick: valuable for us to examine this. The key part that I think was missed perhaps when I first

[8:15:47] Trustee Borthwick: spoke was I actually think that this shouldn't necessarily be something we immediately pitch to

[8:15:52] Trustee Borthwick: staff. I think we are, if we want to talk about taking leadership as a body, how we are answerable

[8:15:59] Trustee Borthwick: to our constituents is a decision for us uh and and when we get to the point of actually making

[8:16:04] Trustee Borthwick: a policy then absolutely we talk to staff and we figure out how to make it write it well but i think

[8:16:09] Trustee Borthwick: it would be really valuable for a for a group of us who are interested in this to get together talk

[8:16:15] Trustee Borthwick: about like okay well what do we think is appropriate if do we want to have a couple of different layers

[8:16:19] Trustee Borthwick: do we want to have we just respond to the letter do we want to have a thank you for your input or

[8:16:23] Trustee Borthwick: do we want to invite that person back to have a dialogue with us so we can talk about it and be

[8:16:27] Trustee Borthwick: be answerable um so i i mean i would love to see this be uh you know through a committee or through

[8:16:33] Trustee Borthwick: some whatever and i'm happy to hear what other people have to say i can see that deb has deb

[8:16:36] Trustee Borthwick: has her hand up but i i i think this is something that uh would be meaningful as it would be a

[8:16:43] Trustee Borthwick: meaningful gesture in an in and of itself for this body to take how we are answerable to our

[8:16:48] Trustee Borthwick: constituents as a response as our direct responsibility and not something that we

[8:16:52] Trustee Borthwick: We are taxing staff with.

[8:16:55] Trustee Borthwick: They have enough to do.

[8:16:57] Trustee Borthwick: And actually, we're very cheap.

[8:17:00] Trustee Borthwick: So, yeah,

[8:17:07] Trustee Bernardo: I worry a little bit here in the tenor of the discussion about losing transparency here.

[8:17:17] Trustee Bernardo: You know, the idea of, you know, somebody making a delegation and then being invited to dinner.

[8:17:22] Trustee Bernardo: and there's all sorts of offline discussions between members of the public

[8:17:27] Trustee Bernardo: and the trustees that then go to inform the decision of the trustees.

[8:17:31] Trustee Bernardo: I'm not quite sure how we handle that.

[8:17:35] Trustee Bernardo: You know, it may, you know, depending on how many people are involved in those discussions,

[8:17:40] Trustee Bernardo: it may or may not bring in issues of the no quorum rule.

[8:17:43] Trustee Bernardo: I doubt it, given the volume of the size of Trust Council.

[8:17:46] Trustee Bernardo: But I'm not sure it's other members of the public are going to appreciate the idea

[8:17:52] Trustee Bernardo: that some delegate shows up makes a presentation and then the real action is happening over jello

[8:17:58] Trustee Bernardo: you know um and then you get the next day there's a vote and there's this gap in transparency

[8:18:07] Trustee Bernardo: i i i don't want to overstate the issue but i i worry about that thank

[8:18:13] Voice 26: you trustee campbell

[8:18:19] Voice 26: just curious

[8:18:21] Voice 8: that if there isn't a policy why don't we just remove the whole delegation thing

[8:18:25] Voice 8: completely until there can be a policy and

[8:18:29] Voice 26: just stick with public comment thank you trustee campbell

[8:18:37] Voice 26: let's

[8:18:38] Trustee Luckham: try let's try and wrap this up because maybe we've talked about it enough um and then

[8:18:44] Trustee Luckham: we can move on to the other items so i'll let you manage the speakers list accordingly so right now

[8:18:48] Voice 25: we have trustee fast trustee yates and trustee morris oh and mr and trustee harris thanks

[8:18:58] Trustee Fast: Thanks, everybody. I just want to, first of all, ask the question, have we had any online

[8:19:05] Trustee Fast: delegations yet? If not, I expect they're going to come, which takes all the travel stuff away.

[8:19:13] Trustee Fast: I didn't see it. I just checked the online form, the application form we have.

[8:19:18] Trustee Fast: Because

[8:19:18] Voice 26: it

[8:19:20] Trustee Fast: doesn't say that in the online application form, so we might want to make

[8:19:24] Trustee Fast: that clear same as with that that it's an option or invite it um same with the uh expectations part

[8:19:33] Trustee Fast: that trustee elliott spoke about um i had and the second part i want to talk about is um

[8:19:41] Trustee Fast: the purpose of a delegation i was uh as a a new vice chair um off in uh bar flung northern islands

[8:19:51] Trustee Fast: i was um uh asked to approve agendas uh including should this delegate be permitted i didn't know

[8:20:01] Trustee Fast: any of them anyway it was funny thing so i put a bunch and and we had some delegations who uh came

[8:20:07] Trustee Fast: and basically harangued staff and insulted people and were they applicants or not and it was

[8:20:14] Trustee Fast: confusing so we created guidelines for each ltc and adopted them some of them are now in their

[8:20:20] Trustee Fast: procedure bylaws and it says the purpose of a delegation is to present new ideas or information

[8:20:26] Trustee Fast: that is not otherwise being considered by the ltc in a project or an application the ltc does not

[8:20:33] Trustee Fast: typically make decisions on delegation requests at the same meeting although they may choose to

[8:20:39] Trustee Fast: request staff to report back with further information so i just wanted to put this out

[8:20:44] Trustee Fast: here this has been these were adopted as guidelines and some of them as procedures in

[8:20:52] Trustee Fast: Hornby which I'm reading from Denman which has even more plain language guidelines or for public

[8:21:02] Trustee Fast: comment for for public input and Gambier local trust me so some of the work's been done some

[8:21:10] Trustee Fast: of these ideas uh and has had the attention of all those ltcs within the past few years thank you

[8:21:17] Voice 25: five minutes left trustee yates i'll

[8:21:21] Voice 20: be quick so for me the best part of this discussion

[8:21:24] Voice 20: are those questions to ask yourself about a decision those are really good questions

[8:21:31] Voice 20: for three reasons one of them is you must give yourself time that is you don't respond to the

[8:21:39] Voice 20: the delegation right away. And we already learned that lesson anyway. Secondly, if you're thinking

[8:21:46] Voice 20: about what to tell the delegate, as in what Trustee Elliott was saying, what to expect in a reply,

[8:21:53] Voice 20: well, you can expect that we are going to be thinking about these questions about making

[8:21:59] Voice 20: our decision. And thirdly, if we do decide to come up with a policy, these questions are really

[8:22:07] Voice 20: really important.

[8:22:09] Voice 25: Trustee Morris.

[8:22:11] Voice 4: Thank you. Yes, I really love the idea of an educational

[8:22:14] Voice 4: approach to this in the short term. I think that's super, super helpful. I do think that

[8:22:21] Voice 4: it could be helpful for a group of trustees who are interested to just kind of mind meld

[8:22:28] Voice 4: on the issue and try and come up with some suggestions going forward. I think that's

[8:22:32] Voice 4: actually a very good use of trustees. And it reminded me that the point that I wanted to

[8:22:38] Voice 4: make earlier was any policy that we do do, and I think I already talked with Joe about this last

[8:22:43] Voice 4: night at dinner,

[8:22:44] Voice 4: but any policy that we do do as we're sort of going forward and thinking about

[8:22:49] Voice 4: what our corporate planning structures are, I would encourage us as trustees to really try to

[8:22:54] Voice 4: weave ourselves into the work because we are here, we are in the work. It would be good if we bring

[8:23:02] Voice 4: things forward as trustees too, and maybe in collaboration with staff and collaboration with

[8:23:06] Voice 4: with each other.

[8:23:07] Voice 4: So I'd love to see that.

[8:23:08] Voice 15: Thank you.

[8:23:09] Voice 25: Trustee Harris.

[8:23:10] Voice 15: Thank you.

[8:23:11] Voice 15: It seems pretty simple to me.

[8:23:14] Voice 15: If you don't want to vote on a motion on the fly,

[8:23:18] Voice 15: then don't vote for it.

[8:23:20] Voice 15: I also think that we ought to, as trustees,

[8:23:25] Voice 15: read the agenda prior to trust council.

[8:23:28] Voice 15: The delegations have been approved

[8:23:29] Voice 15: if they're on there and on there.

[8:23:31] Voice 15: And then if we have any questions,

[8:23:33] Voice 15: we are, it's completely within our right

[8:23:35] Voice 15: to ask the questions when the delegate is finished and it would be simple enough for

[8:23:40] Voice 15: the chair of trust council after the delegate speaks and if perhaps questions are asked or not

[8:23:46] Voice 15: the chair could simply say we will be having this position these delegations tomorrow or at whatever

[8:23:51] Voice 15: time and we'll be considering your delegation then um i it seems pretty simple to me um we've

[8:23:58] Voice 15: had uh david dunnison for instance brought a delegation in it was very important um people

[8:24:03] Voice 15: talked about it prior and seemed legitimate to me that we dealt with that um in a timely fashion but

[8:24:11] Voice 15: that's it for me thanks that's

[8:24:14] Voice 26: speakers list okay

[8:24:15] Trustee Luckham: so that's it shall we consider this in our own

[8:24:19] Trustee Luckham: time and we'll move on on our agenda i think this has been a very helpful discussion and uh

[8:24:26] Trustee Luckham: so let's continue on.

[8:24:29] Trustee Luckham: All right, Tim, thank you.

[8:24:32] Trustee Luckham: It's all of you.

[8:24:33] Trustee Luckham: It only took six months.

[8:24:35] Trustee Luckham: So let's move on.

[8:24:37] Trustee Luckham: We've got two other lengthy topics here.

[8:24:39] Trustee Luckham: And so Trustee Boland,

[8:24:41] Trustee Luckham: trust council meeting schedule and agenda discussion.

[8:24:45] Trustee Luckham: Over to you.

[8:24:46] Trustee Luckham: It's on page 297 of our package.

[8:24:48] Trustee Luckham: And again, this has been waiting in the wings for a bit.

[8:24:51] Trustee Luckham: So thank you for your patience.

[8:24:53] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[8:24:54] Voice 41: so I prepared this with others and it really I really attempted to gather all the input and

[8:25:03] Voice 41: put it in it's not my opinion some of them I might not agree with and some of them are

[8:25:08] Voice 41: my ideas but it's a compilation of ideas and thoughts from others and I think it's really

[8:25:17] Voice 41: no secret that we are all and have been as long as you know during this last year quite frustrated

[8:25:23] Voice 41: by the way um conversations don't really happen and you know i was new to the whole

[8:25:33] Voice 41: quorum no quorum you can't talk you can't email and i found that incredibly frustrating

[8:25:39] Voice 41: and i thought how the hell are we supposed to get anything done if we can't actually speak freely

[8:25:45] Voice 41: about it. So since then, so I prepared this, I think it was after the June meeting, you know,

[8:25:54] Voice 41: I spoke to a few people and then came up with this. Since the September meeting, I note that

[8:26:02] Voice 41: the Executive Committee have had several conversations about how to change, improve,

[8:26:08] Voice 41: make the agenda schedule better and I note that I actually said incorporating staff ideas

[8:26:17] Voice 41: was important but there hadn't been an opportunity but those ideas that went before the executive

[8:26:23] Voice 41: I think they came through the CAO and then the discussion with the executive and there was also

[8:26:30] Voice 41: an email to us asking us for input to a kind of post-trust council, September trust council

[8:26:39] Voice 41: review. So I think I'd like to start with asking somebody from the executive or the CAO to speak

[8:26:51] Voice 41: to the discussions that have taken place at the executive and any specific actions that have been

[8:26:59] Voice 41: been taken so that we don't revisit them in the context of this discussion and then we can just

[8:27:08] Voice 41: go around who has ideas i do have one motion that i could put on the table but let's talk a bit

[8:27:15] Voice 41: first okay so i would ask that somebody from the executive or the cao speaks to the discussions

[8:27:22] Voice 41: that have taken place at the executive committee.

[8:27:25] Voice 41: And then we have a more open discussion around the table.

[8:27:31] Voice 41: Thanks.

[8:27:32] Trustee Luckham: So maybe I'll start that off.

[8:27:35] Trustee Luckham: And if there's any remarks from any of my colleagues at the CAO,

[8:27:39] Trustee Luckham: that would be appreciated.

[8:27:46] Voice 26: We're

[8:27:46] Trustee Luckham: certainly aware of various points of view

[8:27:51] Trustee Luckham: and suggestions for improvement.

[8:27:53] Trustee Luckham: I think that at every council meeting,

[8:27:56] Trustee Luckham: meeting, we have a debriefing at the first executive committee following the meeting

[8:28:00] Trustee Luckham: to simply ask ourselves what worked, what didn't work, where were the problems, and

[8:28:06] Trustee Luckham: indeed, let's set a plan for improving the situation.

[8:28:10] Trustee Luckham: I think more recently, we've wanted to take a much bigger view of perhaps breaking out

[8:28:19] Trustee Luckham: out of this mold of three-day schedules and a committee as a whole and other variations.

[8:28:27] Trustee Luckham: And so I think that this council is, in fact, an example of where we've, I call it plan the plan.

[8:28:35] Trustee Luckham: And so let's make a plan for planning the next agenda. And so we've sort of done that this go

[8:28:40] Trustee Luckham: around, but there's a limit at any given moment in time about how much you want to take on in

[8:28:45] Trustee Luckham: in order to facilitate that change.

[8:28:46] Trustee Luckham: So we've done, this is a first baby step, I would say,

[8:28:49] Trustee Luckham: in moving that along.

[8:28:52] Trustee Luckham: And I may or may not be speaking

[8:28:54] Trustee Luckham: on what has maybe been a full conversation

[8:28:58] Trustee Luckham: at an executive committee,

[8:28:59] Trustee Luckham: but certainly I think the notion of the committee as a whole

[8:29:02] Trustee Luckham: and moving to, of which we were sort of a little test this morning,

[8:29:06] Trustee Luckham: let's do the vision thing.

[8:29:07] Trustee Luckham: Let's not get emotion on the floor.

[8:29:09] Trustee Luckham: Let's have a conversation.

[8:29:10] Trustee Luckham: And when we've talked it through,

[8:29:11] Trustee Luckham: maybe there's opportunity for decision.

[8:29:15] Trustee Luckham: And so taking that more broadly,

[8:29:17] Trustee Luckham: maybe council looks like day one is committee as a whole.

[8:29:22] Trustee Luckham: You pick two topics, everybody knows what they are.

[8:29:24] Trustee Luckham: You talk it through and then,

[8:29:26] Trustee Luckham: and indeed if you don't get a consensus coming out of that,

[8:29:29] Trustee Luckham: I think that's the ideal,

[8:29:31] Trustee Luckham: then there isn't a recommendation that goes forward

[8:29:33] Trustee Luckham: to day two where you're actually doing

[8:29:35] Trustee Luckham: the decision-making process.

[8:29:37] Trustee Luckham: So there's lots of room for more conversation

[8:29:40] Trustee Luckham: And I can't really necessarily dig into that more, except we are sensitive to and maybe the other the trouble of being on the executive and engaged in this and looking at it from the 10,000 foot level, more meetings, fewer meetings.

[8:29:55] Trustee Luckham: That conversation has happened for years and years, and we always end up coming back to this.

[8:30:00] Trustee Luckham: place, but I think in this place of four quarterly meetings that construct, we should consider how we

[8:30:06] Trustee Luckham: can be more effective. So we're looking at ideas about how to be more effective and embracing some

[8:30:11] Trustee Luckham: of these ideas we're hearing from the floor so that you can feel like this is a much more valuable

[8:30:16] Trustee Luckham: and engaging experience for you. And we're successful. I think we want to be successful.

[8:30:21] Trustee Luckham: So I'm just going to open that up to others on the executive committee or staff to

[8:30:25] Trustee Luckham: chime in and uh tim peterson so

[8:30:29] Voice 16: i just want to say uh this is my ninth year as trustee um i've had

[8:30:35] Voice 16: plenty of moments of frustration about the process and and and how we how we do this um

[8:30:42] Voice 16: i will say at especially following the september trust council um one i think thing that was really

[8:30:51] Voice 16: There's some obvious stuff that was obvious to us as members of the executive, but a really positive thing was getting some really good and useful feedback, actionable feedback from trustees.

[8:31:05] Voice 16: Very, very helpful.

[8:31:07] Voice 16: Very common sense, but really helpful to get that feedback.

[8:31:11] Voice 16: Um, and, uh, my perception is, is that as an executive, we're open to, you know, trying

[8:31:22] Voice 16: out different things and, and, and seeing if we can trial different approaches that

[8:31:29] Voice 16: are more conducive to the, to the kind of decision-making discussion that we want to

[8:31:34] Voice 16: have, uh, collectively.

[8:31:36] Voice 16: So, um, that's great.

[8:31:38] Voice 16: and i would just uh just reiterate that trustee feedback to ec as a whole or individual vice

[8:31:47] Voice 26: chairs with chair very useful uh

[8:31:53] Trustee Luckham: toby and then the ceo would like to chat yeah

[8:31:56] Voice 29: um so there was

[8:31:57] Voice 29: a report on our november 1st executive committee agenda that the ceo prepared with two pages of

[8:32:04] Voice 29: everyone's feedback and that was the discussion that we had uh following the discussion in october

[8:32:10] Voice 29: after September um and so this has been three meetings of conversation and we finally winnowed

[8:32:18] Voice 29: it down at the last meeting to uh five changes that we could see making for this trust council

[8:32:25] Voice 29: to facilitate good decision making you see that here with the support of David Marler um David

[8:32:32] Voice 29: mod supporting with the speakers list um less pressure to get to a decision uh was one of the

[8:32:40] Voice 29: items don't be so constrained by time trustees want time to talk um packing less in the agenda

[8:32:47] Voice 29: and it wasn't until the very it's the final item that actually russ russ's comment was some

[8:32:54] Voice 29: consideration of a committee of the whole approach for less formal discussion and this was the first

[8:33:00] Voice 29: that I've ever heard of a committee of the whole discussion I don't know if trustee Boland you

[8:33:04] Voice 29: brought this up before but I'd never contemplated the idea that we could have sort of open ranging

[8:33:11] Voice 29: discussions in between and until Russ brought that forward and then we started to discuss well

[8:33:17] Voice 29: how could we break out this model so it has been an ongoing conversation it's in the agenda packages

[8:33:23] Voice 29: if you want to look at all of your feedback was heard and taken in and then we talked about it

[8:33:29] Voice 29: It got Russ's perspective and now we can move forward with what trustee

[8:33:34] Voice 29: Boland is, is envisioning. So we haven't

[8:33:37] Voice 29: been deaf to it.

[8:33:38] Voice 29: It's just, it takes time.

[8:33:40] Voice 29: We can't reorient the ship without adequate conversation and weighing out

[8:33:45] Voice 29: everything. So apologies. It's taken so long.

[8:33:55] Voice 26: I'd respond to the question

[8:33:57] Voice 34: by suggesting there's order one, order two,

[8:34:00] Voice 34: order three change just as an idea so everything i'm going to say is order one and that is the

[8:34:06] Voice 34: things that are most obvious to have fluid conversations to have them a little bit better

[8:34:10] Voice 34: but it's not really changing the the bones of how this is going those are things that you're seeing

[8:34:17] Voice 34: right now we have the we've might not have noticed there's a second screen so there's less because

[8:34:22] Voice 34: we're having challenges with staff participating in these meetings um we have a second screen now

[8:34:28] Voice 34: that separates the the viewership from the administrative trivia of the meeting we have

[8:34:33] Voice 34: our corporate officer sitting at the front with the chair such that there's a little bit more

[8:34:37] Voice 34: fluidity um we have reorganized the meetings you might not notice but through the actual agenda

[8:34:44] Voice 34: it's different so there's a slightly different flow uh with respect to the chair of the allen's

[8:34:49] Voice 34: trust i say these comments with a generous heart there was discussion around chairing

[8:34:53] Voice 34: um which i think was publicly held and that's around um probably stopping on conversations

[8:35:01] Voice 34: that were flowing too long um yet the art of doing that and still not getting to a decision

[8:35:07] Voice 34: too quickly that was discussed um quite a bit uh it became apparent and this is now order two

[8:35:14] Voice 34: should you have committee of the whole should you have some other format or structure to your lives

[8:35:21] Voice 34: um that would allow long conversations but not necessarily associated with the decision-making

[8:35:27] Voice 34: moment immediately after uh and then finally there's some discussion around a structured

[8:35:32] Voice 34: decision making i uh that was certainly provided to the chairs i've referred to it a bit at trust

[8:35:38] Voice 34: council if you ask my opinion i don't think you all believe in what that means or at this point

[8:35:44] Voice 34: or have a common understanding of what that would be and maybe that's okay um so um there was the

[8:35:51] Voice 34: The last thing was EC wanted to consider bringing Lisa Zwerner, someone like her, to investigate that with you to see if there's value in this is how you'd like to make your decisions, especially if there's cost, resources, and all those kinds of things.

[8:36:06] Voice 34: So mainly some obvious pieces, and those second ones, contemplating the structure and change.

[8:36:13] Voice 34: They're not well-developed, but some ideas are being put forward.

[8:36:18] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I just want to capture something quickly, but I want to go now to the second part of the conversation you want to have.

[8:36:24] Trustee Luckham: And I think that's really important. But I just want to capture something that I think is really important is we have talked about bringing Lisa's Warren in or somebody like her.

[8:36:32] Trustee Luckham: And those of you that participated in that, I think will appreciate that because one, not everybody got to attend.

[8:36:38] Trustee Luckham: And part of that was our fault because it ended up being staged quickly and people weren't able to attend.

[8:36:43] Trustee Luckham: And apologies for that. But when the train is moving, you get on and off.

[8:36:47] Trustee Luckham: And that's that. But I think what's important and significant is that all of us can be involved.

[8:36:54] Trustee Luckham: I, you know, part of this whole civility and respect and conversation is if everybody knows the rules or not, you know, what the guidelines are, the behaviors, whatever you want to call it, then we self-manage much better.

[8:37:08] Trustee Luckham: And so I think that there's different understandings around the table.

[8:37:11] Trustee Luckham: And, you know, what I would actually just ask and just nod your heads, we're thinking about this should happen in the new year.

[8:37:19] Trustee Luckham: And is there support for doing that to get that sort of mentorship?

[8:37:27] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, Lisa's one or similar.

[8:37:31] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, yeah,

[8:37:33] Trustee Luckham: yeah, I understand.

[8:37:35] Trustee Luckham: Anyway, you know, I think you get the idea.

[8:37:37] Trustee Luckham: um i think that if we can all together learn better behaviors we can we can perform better

[8:37:47] Trustee Luckham: and we can be successful i believe that so back to you for the other part of your conversation

[8:37:55] Trustee Luckham: yes it sounds like

[8:37:57] Trustee Luckham: trustees want to

[8:37:58] Trustee Luckham: talk so that

[8:37:58] Voice 41: tracy that that training was great i'm just going

[8:38:01] Voice 41: to open it to everybody else because you have the content people contributed

[8:38:07] Voice 41: it out yeah so can i

[8:38:10] Trustee Luckham: ask your permission for one thing i really want to get you out of here

[8:38:13] Trustee Luckham: because that's the end of the day we've got one more big item to talk about so let's try and keep

[8:38:19] Trustee Luckham: it five or ten minutes

[8:38:20] Voice 41: sorry peter you're doing that thing that you said you wouldn't do

[8:38:27] Voice 41: we don't have dinner till 6 30 uh we meet every quarter i don't think it's a big deal to go 15

[8:38:34] Voice 41: minutes over do

[8:38:35] Trustee Luckham: we have consensus on that yes all right rock and roll let's go all right

[8:38:42] Voice 11: just not and as as we said earlier um you don't have to vote you also don't have to participate

[8:38:48] Voice 11: as long as we got and we don't even need a forum

[8:38:54] Voice 11: thank you

[8:38:55] Trustee Evans: um it was really good to see um the the conversations that you've been having at

[8:39:02] Trustee Evans: the executive council level and the changes that you're bringing forward that's a really nice

[8:39:07] Trustee Evans: positive step and so other areas that we've had conversations on is perhaps breaking out the

[8:39:15] Trustee Evans: agenda the way that it's currently set up and so I just did a quick count on the various items in

[8:39:22] Trustee Evans: this in this agenda so we had nine decision items we had four discussion items and 58 briefing and

[8:39:30] Trustee Evans: and consent items. So my suggestion is with the briefing and consent items, is it possible for us

[8:39:38] Trustee Evans: to schedule either on a monthly basis, a short meeting to get these consent and briefing items

[8:39:45] Trustee Evans: dealt with so that our agenda in these meetings permit longer discussions so we can have the time

[8:39:53] Trustee Evans: and we're not feeling rushed because the majority of our time is taken up on consent and briefing

[8:39:58] Trustee Evans: thing items that's my request thank you

[8:40:02] Voice 26: awesome yeah thank

[8:40:09] Voice 16: you um uh thanks uh maraid for for uh

[8:40:13] Voice 16: leading this item and bringing it to us um there's there's some great ideas for for discussion um

[8:40:22] Voice 16: i would just say that uh i have long been an advocate for rather than shortening trust

[8:40:28] Voice 16: trust council considering the leg thing in it two three whole days so that we're not in

[8:40:35] Voice 16: by then we've already done our travel uh the carbon footprint thing whatever so that we're not

[8:40:42] Voice 16: constantly running into these time crunches so uh that's just my my take on that also and i and i

[8:40:50] Voice 16: said it uh you know when i was running for vice chair and i'll just reiterate it again

[8:40:54] Voice 16: we historically trust council has not used made use of special meetings i think that there's

[8:41:02] Voice 16: potential to especially for zoom for one item let's have a two-hour whatever let's let's consider

[8:41:12] Voice 16: that i think i think that that the potential for special meetings by zoom is something that that

[8:41:18] Voice 16: hasn't been explored in and i like the idea of of utilizing that so thank you for bringing this

[8:41:24] Voice 16: Trustee Morrison.

[8:41:26] Voice 4: Thank you.

[8:41:27] Voice 4: I have heard, not just in this trust council, but in the prior trust council, a deep desire for some in-between trust council types of discussion spaces.

[8:41:40] Voice 4: So that idea, like getting that one on the table.

[8:41:44] Voice 4: and I would love to see that in our 2024 schedule as a pilot and with some data attached to how

[8:41:53] Voice 4: trustees actually feel about it and collect some information about it and so yeah all for that

[8:42:01] Voice 4: committee of the whole structure around it no decision making some of the things that have

[8:42:05] Voice 4: been laid out in this document so I really think it could be a very beneficial thing and I agree

[8:42:10] Voice 4: if we could cluster them into topical areas around briefings that would be more coherent

[8:42:14] Voice 4: grant for trustees

[8:42:15] Voice 5: to be able to engage trustee

[8:42:18] Voice 26: Adams okay

[8:42:22] Trustee Evans: thank you I just wanted to expand and

[8:42:24] Trustee Evans: clarify on on what I'd said earlier the uh monthly meetings that that I'm hoping that we can deal

[8:42:30] Trustee Evans: with these brief and consent items that there are a lot of um that they be via zoom that that we're

[8:42:36] Trustee Evans: not actually coming in person these are our zoom meetings I want to really clarify that and for to

[8:42:42] Trustee Evans: have two or four hours and I'm guessing it would be closer to four hours so we can really uh work

[8:42:47] Trustee Evans: our way through some of these items and if there is enough time the delegations fall under one of

[8:42:53] Trustee Evans: these meetings and if there is enough time if we're working if we're super good at working our

[8:42:59] Trustee Evans: way through stuff we have time to dedicate for a major topic discussion and we've got big topics

[8:43:06] Trustee Evans: coming up so again being able to have a difficult discussions in this room is one thing continuing

[8:43:14] Trustee Evans: to move that discussion on without having to wait three more months is important. Thank you.

[8:43:20] Voice 25: Trustee Graham.

[8:43:25] Voice 12: Again, with my financial planning committee member hat on, anytime we can save

[8:43:30] Voice 12: money, I think it's a good thing. So interesting idea. One more day longer, Trust Council,

[8:43:38] Voice 12: spring and fall, and then winter and summer, Zoom. That's just my suggestion.

[8:43:46] Voice 12: Trustee Elliott.

[8:43:48] Voice 29: I've been looking at the regional district of Nanaimo's financial planning process, and they have a much bigger budget.

[8:43:56] Voice 29: By the way, their anticipated tax increase is around 12.9% proposed for this year, so it's scary for everybody.

[8:44:05] Voice 29: but um they're they they schedule in two regularly scheduled meetings in november

[8:44:12] Voice 29: just to get discussion and direction on the budget and that would be super helpful if we could have

[8:44:22] Voice 29: i i know it would push everything back further but their goal is that board direction is received

[8:44:31] Voice 29: up to and including december 5th and they have statutory requirements for um you know five-year

[8:44:37] Voice 29: financial plan and but they try to get everything done by like january for their march 31st

[8:44:45] Voice 29: forecast or budget for the year so i i really think we could have just budget focused discussions i

[8:44:52] Voice 29: know we've got financial planning committee that's the job of that committee but it is

[8:44:56] Voice 29: the responsibility of this council for budget and we all seem to be invested in that process

[8:45:03] Voice 29: scheduling two zoom meetings to just talk about budget for three hours in november to twice in

[8:45:12] Voice 29: november could alleviate a lot of the the crunch i don't know just a thought justin

[8:45:20] Trustee Bernardo: bernardo yeah i

[8:45:23] Trustee Bernardo: I just want to voice my agreement with the general idea that we need to do more than simply tweak how we do the quarterly meetings.

[8:45:34] Trustee Bernardo: We have to have different categories of meetings.

[8:45:36] Trustee Bernardo: We have to have, frankly, more frequent meetings.

[8:45:41] Trustee Bernardo: There's too much business crammed into three days and nowhere close to enough time for the deliberation of the things that actually matter.

[8:45:48] Trustee Bernardo: We always have this mixed bag of housekeeping and substantive issues.

[8:45:52] Trustee Bernardo: issues uh the agendas are murderously long with the information that matters which is stuck

[8:45:59] Trustee Bernardo: like layered in between background material no one wants to read but it's all there and uh

[8:46:06] Trustee Bernardo: and when you have that amount of material in electronic form it's actually harder than

[8:46:10] Trustee Bernardo: getting through a paper and you know this this meeting is an example i mean come on let's get

[8:46:15] Trustee Bernardo: real 500 plus pages i mean you know war and peace is a great book this is not war and peace

[8:46:22] Trustee Bernardo: you

[8:46:23] Voice 38: know

[8:46:24] Trustee Bernardo: if you want to punish the diligent if you want to punish the people who are working

[8:46:29] Trustee Bernardo: hard and care the most that's how you do it now we ought not to be asked to make important decisions

[8:46:35] Trustee Bernardo: at the same meeting that the very that issue is introduced at the first time that happens

[8:46:41] Trustee Bernardo: way too often i mean really important thing comes up and there's no room to discuss

[8:46:46] Trustee Bernardo: us um and you know you talked about this expert any expert about meetings is going to tell you

[8:46:54] Trustee Bernardo: you ought to never do that we do it all the time so the quarterly meetings i i think part of this

[8:47:00] Trustee Bernardo: is a legacy there's this tradition to having these quarterly meetings that's what the meeting policy

[8:47:04] Trustee Bernardo: is so we just slavishly keep following it and so these meetings get bigger and bigger

[8:47:10] Trustee Bernardo: but trustee evans and others and trustee morrison and and others have talked about the idea of

[8:47:16] Trustee Bernardo: of changing the character of what happens at the quarterly meetings so that it's more focused on

[8:47:22] Trustee Bernardo: substantive matters and perhaps in decision making and in between not having special meetings but

[8:47:28] Trustee Bernardo: having scheduled zoom meetings that are targeted they may be committee of the whole open meeting

[8:47:34] Trustee Bernardo: just for this discussion or some other purpose but that we strategically make use of monthly

[8:47:41] Trustee Bernardo: zoom meetings and perhaps every once in a while extraordinary another meeting two weeks later

[8:47:46] Trustee Bernardo: if there's some issue to deal with and they're short they're focused you've got one issue or

[8:47:52] Trustee Bernardo: two issues to address you deal with them and you move on it's like an hour an hour and a half

[8:47:57] Trustee Bernardo: not like an epic three-day thing and if we do it that way we may well be able to actually save

[8:48:04] Trustee Bernardo: some money on the in-person meetings because if the in-person meetings are devoted in a very

[8:48:08] Trustee Bernardo: focused way to a specific objectives we want to achieve there we might be able to just do that

[8:48:14] Trustee Bernardo: in a business-like way in two days or one

[8:48:17] Voice 26: that's the speaker's list um i i

[8:48:26] Voice 41: really like you know we

[8:48:27] Voice 41: we generally converge on the issue and i've made a list in a way where we have a sort of an outline

[8:48:35] Voice 41: list of potential topics that could be addressed by shorter meetings ranging from trustee evans

[8:48:41] Voice 41: which is we deal with all the briefings to let's have a couple to deal with the budget to move it

[8:48:47] Voice 41: along smartly so there's a lot of good ideas um with respect to the format i did talk to uh david

[8:48:55] Voice 41: maurer about you know um the committee of the whole and he advised me and i do have a motion

[8:49:03] Voice 41: on that i think the committee the whole seems to be to be a kind of a format so you could call a

[8:49:09] Voice 41: special meeting and if you had a committee of the whole as a possibility in your policy

[8:49:15] Voice 41: during that special meeting you could dissolve into a committee of the whole and then re-emerge

[8:49:23] Voice 41: from it so at any regular special meeting you can just become a committee of the whole you don't

[8:49:30] Voice 41: have to actually you can create a special committee of the whole meeting but you can

[8:49:36] Voice 41: enter into that mode at any time so it's a very powerful tool I think to have in our toolbox

[8:49:43] Voice 41: because it makes it really clear that now we have a whole different set of rules and way of behaving

[8:49:51] Voice 41: and it takes us out of that you know driven mode to tick tick tick so I do have emotion

[8:49:59] Voice 41: emotion um and i ran it past uh david and i wanted to go faster of course i thought um

[8:50:10] Voice 41: let's just do it now and let's have one in two weeks time

[8:50:14] Voice 38: but

[8:50:15] Voice 41: okay i wouldn't say i'm learning

[8:50:19] Voice 41: but i am being you know anyway so i do have emotion and i

[8:50:26] Voice 26: don't know and i'm going to get

[8:50:27] Voice 26: it up on the screen. I

[8:50:30] Voice 11: can

[8:50:33] Voice 41: read it out it's very short while we wait. Let's get it up on the screen

[8:50:37] Voice 41: well

[8:50:37] Voice 11: we

[8:50:40] Voice 41: can but I can read it while she's doing it. So it's that Trust Council

[8:50:44] Voice 41: request staff to draft an amendment to the Trust Council meeting procedures by law

[8:50:50] Voice 41: to include the Committee of the Whole as a meeting type and bring that draft to March Trust Council.

[8:50:58] Voice 41: I believe that in the meantime, and CAO suggested this, that we can use the special meeting process, which is three trustees propose it, and then it goes to a vote and it goes by majority, that you can hold a special meeting for whatever reason.

[8:51:18] Voice 41: so in the meantime we could do that to address things like um we all need to talk about the

[8:51:25] Voice 41: governance review and that's one that i thought is like such an obvious topic um and the other

[8:51:34] Voice 41: thing i'd like to say well is just that i i really favor um multiple meetings i think there's another

[8:51:43] Voice 41: another advantage to having multiple meetings which is a better connection between trust

[8:51:47] Voice 41: council and the executive committee because I listen to the executive committee of late

[8:51:54] Voice 41: because I realize that yeah

[8:51:59] Voice 26: okay

[8:52:02] Voice 41: all right fair

[8:52:03] Voice 11: enough so I've got a motion on the floor

[8:52:06] Voice 11: you've read it out okay I've got it up

[8:52:07] Trustee Luckham: on the screen that's motion presumably everybody

[8:52:10] Trustee Luckham: Everybody understands it.

[8:52:11] Trustee Luckham: Is there a seconder?

[8:52:12] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[8:52:13] Trustee Luckham: Now, if you wish to speak to the motion.

[8:52:15] Voice 41: Well, I think this stands as this, and I have something else just to comment to add afterwards, if that's okay.

[8:52:24] Trustee Luckham: Sure.

[8:52:25] Trustee Luckham: So, any discussion?

[8:52:30] Voice 26: Toby Elliott.

[8:52:32] Voice 26: So, speakers,

[8:52:33] Trustee Luckham: let's go over to you.

[8:52:34] Trustee Luckham: Toby Elliott.

[8:52:35] Voice 11: So,

[8:52:36] Voice 29: I'm glad this came after the previous discussion about considering all the different aspects.

[8:52:40] Voice 29: um what are the financial implications um trustee remuneration has been a topic of discussion

[8:52:47] Voice 29: we haven't yet fleshed that out there's going to be implications for people who are of working age

[8:52:54] Voice 29: and fitting extra meetings in is good for those that have the time but it is a struggle for

[8:53:01] Voice 29: for everybody else who works.

[8:53:03] Voice 29: So I would add to this,

[8:53:10] Voice 29: we just need to do some thinking about this.

[8:53:12] Voice 29: It's not gonna be a given

[8:53:14] Voice 29: that everyone can accomplish extra meetings

[8:53:17] Voice 29: and we need, there might be financial costs

[8:53:19] Voice 29: for that attendance.

[8:53:21] Voice 29: We

[8:53:21] Voice 11: have some advice .

[8:53:24] Voice 36: Yeah, thank you.

[8:53:25] Voice 36: So my read of this resolution

[8:53:28] Voice 36: is that I would bring back a recommended amendment

[8:53:32] Voice 36: to your bylaw

[8:53:33] Voice 36: and that would have committee as a whole as an option for trust council now how you use that

[8:53:40] Voice 36: that's up to you so if you want to have extra meetings and have committee of the whole or

[8:53:45] Voice 36: whether you just want to continue with the four you have now and have committee of the whole on

[8:53:48] Voice 36: half or one of those days that's up to you so you can have those discussions around budget at that

[8:53:53] Voice 36: time so this will not make any difference initially but it's how you use that so

[8:54:00] Trustee Luckham: is there

[8:54:02] Trustee Luckham: any further oh yeah go ahead uh

[8:54:05] Voice 34: yeah just love the discussion around what are some alternatives

[8:54:09] Voice 34: so if you move to a model where you all meet more frequently maybe we can contemplate getting rid of

[8:54:14] Voice 34: some of the other committees right so um that certainly is something to start if you're looking

[8:54:22] Voice 34: at a resort if you're finding some even water around uh resource use when you find out that

[8:54:27] Voice 34: you know we've got a policy rich environment that's keeping it the same way it is and we

[8:54:30] Voice 34: change all that to something else maybe there's opportunities to uh remove some of the administrative

[8:54:36] Voice 34: of some of the other committees do we need an fpc um do we need a trust programs committee etc etc

[8:54:42] Voice 34: so anyway the thoughts for the next round of considerations i only shivered when you said

[8:54:47] Voice 34: hey any minute we can just have a special meeting that that's a like that's a no i know but it's

[8:54:56] Voice 34: i'll just warn you like who's what staff are going to be there like you know it's

[8:55:00] Voice 11: yeah let's

[8:55:02] Voice 11: yeah let's keep focused on i'm

[8:55:04] Voice 34: just saying david's answered that we're doing this

[8:55:06] Voice 34: first part to provide context it looks like the implications may or may not be following that

[8:55:11] Voice 34: right change and

[8:55:13] Trustee Luckham: marie did i give you the chance to speak to your motion

[8:55:17] Trustee Luckham: okay because i just see you putting your hand up so okay so let's have the discussion

[8:55:22] Trustee Luckham: discussion and sure so

[8:55:24] Voice 25: who else trustee gabriel hi

[8:55:28] Voice 27: um yeah i own a restaurant i work full-time

[8:55:32] Voice 27: throughout the day during times you had ordered from a restaurant so the idea of doing extra

[8:55:37] Voice 27: meetings to me is not really uh fathomable i mean tomorrow we're supposed to be open but i'm closing

[8:55:43] Voice 27: my restaurant so that i could be here and that's a trade-off that i knew when i when i took this

[8:55:48] Voice 27: job i'd have to do and i'm okay with that and my community is okay with that it works

[8:55:52] Voice 27: But the idea of having to do another meeting or a discussion around an item, when I prepared myself, yes, it's almost 600 pages, 200 pages of tables and reports.

[8:56:06] Voice 27: And then I read it.

[8:56:08] Voice 27: I was ready for this meeting.

[8:56:10] Voice 27: I was able to get myself ready.

[8:56:12] Voice 27: Challenging?

[8:56:12] Voice 27: Yes.

[8:56:13] Voice 27: Could it be easier?

[8:56:14] Voice 27: Yes.

[8:56:15] Voice 27: But I just want to preface the fact that if we're going to start adding extra meetings, a lot of us work for a living.

[8:56:22] Voice 27: and we can't really make those sacrifices um i did add another question as well i don't understand

[8:56:29] Voice 27: what um include the committee of the whole as a meeting type i

[8:56:36] Voice 26: don't understand what that means

[8:56:39] Trustee Luckham: go ahead david yeah

[8:56:41] Voice 36: thank you so trust council meets as trust council and the meeting procedure

[8:56:45] Voice 36: by law sets up all of that uh committee as a whole is it's a committee of council but it's

[8:56:52] Voice 36: everybody that's why it's called committee of the whole and council cannot make decisions when it's

[8:56:58] Voice 36: in committee of the whole so this is just authorizing council to be able to go into

[8:57:03] Voice 36: committee of the whole and have discussions and can be much more free the bylaw would just

[8:57:08] Voice 36: allow for example children could step aside somebody else could share or you could just

[8:57:14] Voice 36: have a more free discussion than you do now you kind of relax the rules of meetings

[8:57:19] Voice 36: things to

[8:57:20] Voice 36: have that discussion so that's the intent there

[8:57:23] Voice 11: commonly used by municipalities

[8:57:26] Voice 11: just too fast thank

[8:57:32] Voice 26: you and hello

[8:57:33] Trustee Fast: from bowen island municipality um where we routinely uh have

[8:57:39] Trustee Fast: committees of the wolves uh we call them cows anyway it happens and that all municipalities

[8:57:47] Trustee Fast: municipalities have them. Our every second week municipal agendas tend to be 300 to 500 pages.

[8:57:57] Trustee Fast: They include a lot of material. This is, as I understand it, common in the local government

[8:58:03] Trustee Fast: world because there's a lot to consider when you're making big decisions. Anyway, I think

[8:58:10] Trustee Fast: committees of the whole are fine. Just like a few years ago, we didn't used to have consent

[8:58:16] Trustee Fast: sent agendas. Now we've got them and they're working. And I was happy to be part of bringing

[8:58:23] Trustee Fast: them in. Partly, I think I surprised. I won't go on into that. Anyway, what you do at the end of

[8:58:33] Trustee Fast: a committee, the whole often, which can be a workshop or it can be a special guest with your

[8:58:40] Trustee Fast: delegations or all kinds of things, questions and answers. It can be with a group. What you do

[8:58:49] Trustee Fast: typically bowen island municipality does at the end of one of those is pass a recommendation

[8:58:54] Trustee Fast: to trust council so the you know it says uh this committee the whole recommends to trust

[8:59:01] Trustee Fast: to counsel that uh and um so then you actually do get a chance to reconsider it at a proper

[8:59:08] Trustee Fast: more formal meeting uh after you've had a little time to sleep on it um what bowen island

[8:59:15] Trustee Fast: municipalities doing this term because we have a number of uh uh municipal councillors who also

[8:59:22] Trustee Fast: work um including our mayor is we're pre-scheduling some of the committees of the whole

[8:59:30] Trustee Fast: ahead of time so at least people can have a sense of okay i should pencil this in it may get

[8:59:38] Trustee Fast: cancelled later but the effort that goes into trying to get just seven councillors and staff

[8:59:46] Trustee Fast: onto a meeting date is a ton of work for staff and all of us trying to keep our calendars open

[8:59:53] Trustee Fast: open so um and schedule our work and all these other things so that's just the um we'll see how

[9:00:00] Trustee Fast: we're just doing that this term uh they can still add special meetings or add things um but this is

[9:00:06] Trustee Fast: a pre-scheduling of these committees as a whole we're trying to do in between our bi-weekly um

[9:00:13] Trustee Fast: council meetings some food for thought okay so we

[9:00:17] Voice 26: move on to trustee patrick

[9:00:24] Voice 26: okay catherine uh yeah

[9:00:27] Trustee Borthwick: my original point had been going to say what david marvel said which is

[9:00:31] Trustee Borthwick: that this particular motion won't you know we don't have to get into the nitty-gritty of all

[9:00:34] Trustee Borthwick: the bits and pieces right away that being said um i also wanted to say what what others have said

[9:00:40] Trustee Borthwick: toby and lisa have said like yeah working and my suggestion was going to be yeah if we can schedule

[9:00:46] Trustee Borthwick: these as as much as we can that makes it much easier than to plan around that stuff and i will

[9:00:51] Trustee Borthwick: furthermore would like to say i'm very much in support of the motion um and and and i think

[9:00:58] Trustee Borthwick: think anything we can do to take the load off of these agendas between each thing. And if we can

[9:01:03] Trustee Borthwick: put in things like consent, consent agendas or briefings, you know, that's where I guess we can't

[9:01:09] Trustee Borthwick: do consent. Anyways, I think that would be really valuable. I'm also missing work tomorrow. So it's

[9:01:14] Trustee Borthwick: it's but being able but in the last week, I've had to read 600 pages of agenda. So, you know,

[9:01:20] Trustee Borthwick: being able to move that stuff forward is really, and I'd love to. Yeah.

[9:01:24] Voice 25: trustee evans thank

[9:01:27] Trustee Evans: you um so again i was going to say very much very similar to uh trustee

[9:01:34] Trustee Evans: forthwick and swell and fast i'm just going to try and add in new things um with i'm in support

[9:01:39] Trustee Evans: of this absolutely and i think with if we were able to keep the committee of the whole

[9:01:44] Trustee Evans: conversations to the briefing and consent items then anyone who is absent isn't really missing

[9:01:52] Trustee Evans: a decision-making point so while we don't have to have everybody here as in council it as long as

[9:02:03] Trustee Evans: we have the majority and they are pre-scheduled i think we can lighten the load for these meetings

[9:02:08] Trustee Evans: and possibly have them a little shorter and if not then have longer discussions on the key items

[9:02:17] Trustee Evans: thank you

[9:02:19] Trustee Bernardo: trustee bernardo uh i support the motion because i support uh substantive deliberation um

[9:02:27] Trustee Bernardo: and a committee of the whole i think will help us do that and i just want to point out that

[9:02:33] Trustee Bernardo: um what's up for discussion um the motion is about adopting um or asking staff to prepare

[9:02:42] Trustee Bernardo: an amendment that would lead to the adoption of committee of the whole as a methodology it says

[9:02:48] Trustee Bernardo: has nothing about scheduling it says nothing about increasing frequency of meetings let's

[9:02:52] Trustee Bernardo: stay focused on the merits of having the committee of the whole as opposed to when we're going to use

[9:02:57] Trustee Bernardo: it because this has nothing to do about the win trustee hunter

[9:03:01] Voice 14: yes um if there's no decision

[9:03:05] Voice 14: making do we need a quorum or how many members have to be present and is the public going to

[9:03:12] Voice 14: be in attendance and are they allowed to speak director martin yeah

[9:03:17] Voice 36: thank you so it is a

[9:03:19] Voice 36: committee of council so it will have a quorum which will be based on the number because committee

[9:03:24] Voice 36: of the whole then the quorum will be the same as council so yes and the rules of meetings still

[9:03:30] Voice 36: apply they have to be open to the public minutes must be taken all of that thank you trustee morrison

[9:03:37] Voice 36: thank

[9:03:38] Voice 4: you um trustee hunter my question was kind of related and i don't think it quite got answered

[9:03:42] Voice 4: was the um if this would be a space actually for what trustee allen mentioned of like um

[9:03:48] Voice 4: delegations or public being able to speak in that context and have a more open

[9:03:52] Voice 4: kind of conversation. So

[9:03:54] Voice 5: that was a question. So is public allowed to speak in that

[9:03:56] Voice 5: space? Yeah,

[9:04:00] Voice 36: that's definitely one of the

[9:04:03] Voice 36: things you can use the Committee of the Whole for. Local governments often use it

[9:04:07] Voice 36: to discuss things like applications, and

[9:04:10] Voice 36: they'll have the public there to speak to them.

[9:04:17] Voice 10: Thank you. Well, this Committee

[9:04:20] Voice 10: of the whole concept is how I think

[9:04:22] Voice 10: we should be running it all the time

[9:04:25] Voice 10: and we could move from that

[9:04:26] Voice 10: into using Robert's rules to make motions.

[9:04:28] Voice 10: That would be my style.

[9:04:31] Voice 10: That would be what I would be comfortable with.

[9:04:32] Voice 10: So I'm very happy we're moving in that direction.

[9:04:36] Voice 25: Okay, there's no other speakers.

[9:04:38] Voice 25: We'll end up with Trustee Boland.

[9:04:41] Voice 41: I just wanted to say I appreciate the fact

[9:04:45] Voice 41: that people don't want to necessarily spend more hours,

[9:04:49] Voice 41: but I think we could actually, you know,

[9:04:51] Voice 41: swap out the half days each end of the day and uh you know be a bit creative about how our

[9:05:00] Voice 41: committees are constructed maybe merge a couple of committees anyway and we could swap out some

[9:05:06] Voice 41: of these meetings for executive committee meetings because i think that cycle means that we lose

[9:05:12] Voice 41: lose connection to what the executive committee is doing because they have like six meetings

[9:05:18] Voice 41: and we haven't gone through to a second one so that's all i say uh thanks great discussion

[9:05:24] Voice 41: and let's just vote are

[9:05:29] Voice 26: you ready to vote

[9:05:30] Voice 26: oh

[9:05:31] Trustee Luckham: enthusiasm okay all

[9:05:33] Voice 26: those in favor

[9:05:34] Voice 26: and let's get hands down and i'll just simply ask is

[9:05:40] Voice 11: there any opposed

[9:05:45] Voice 26: so

[9:05:45] Voice 11: lower your hands and then i'll ask for those

[9:05:49] Trustee Luckham: opposed the second time

[9:05:52] Trustee Luckham: there are none opposed so if that's correct that carries unanimously uh thank you very much

[9:05:58] Trustee Luckham: marie bowler for bringing that to us so one final item today is the cao review uh process

[9:06:06] Trustee Luckham: and i'm going to go to laura patrick i

[9:06:10] Trustee Patrick: want to confirm time if

[9:06:13] Trustee Luckham: you don't want to do it today

[9:06:15] Trustee Luckham: which i thought we were going to go to 6 30 what's the suggestion earlier if you don't want

[9:06:20] Trustee Luckham: want to do it today we can pick it up tomorrow yeah what's your pleasure council are you ready

[9:06:25] Trustee Luckham: to retire for the evening yes it sounds like we have consensus on that the schedule is your three

[9:06:35] Trustee Luckham: day schedule we start at seven o'clock in the morning have breakfast and then we go in camera

[9:06:39] Trustee Luckham: and continue on it's a reasonably light agenda i think we could squeeze this topic in

[9:06:52] Voice 11: on on the agenda it's a late item so there's no yeah

[9:06:55] Trustee Luckham: so there is no page number this is a late

[9:06:58] Trustee Luckham: item which trustee patrick i believe emailed to you is that correct trustee patrick yes

[9:07:03] Trustee Luckham: so you all received it by email from trustee patrick that's the information so review it

[9:07:09] Trustee Luckham: tonight if you can and uh don't dash off out the door in a minute but i am going to call

[9:07:15] Trustee Luckham: for recess purposefully and then i've got a couple of remarks after we

[9:07:20] Trustee Luckham: stop the streaming and

[9:07:22] Voice 37: recording just a quick a quick question chair about the order tomorrow

[9:07:26] Voice 37: the agenda says the closed session is after the break that's

[9:07:31] Trustee Luckham: correct we changed that um i'm trying

[9:07:34] Trustee Luckham: I remember the rationale for that.

[9:07:37] Trustee Luckham: Oh, San Juan Islands, that's right.

[9:07:40] Voice 38: We

[9:07:40] Trustee Luckham: have the ability to rejig the agenda at our will,

[9:07:46] Trustee Luckham: and if there's a desire to have that at the beginning, we could.

[9:07:50] Trustee Luckham: But I would say let's see how the day goes.

[9:07:56] Trustee Luckham: It's better for members of the public attending if we don't move to closed meeting

[9:08:01] Trustee Luckham: Because if people are planning to be here at 8.30 to see the planning services, which is important, so I would say it isn't going to happen likely before the break.

[9:08:11] Voice 37: Just

[9:08:12] Trustee Luckham: looking at that logistically.

[9:08:14] Voice 37: Sure, that's great.

[9:08:16] Voice 37: I can't be here for the first 40 minutes.

[9:08:18] Trustee Luckham: Oh, well, there you go.

[9:08:20] Trustee Luckham: So you're going to miss the most important part of the whole three days.

[9:08:24] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[9:08:26] Trustee Luckham: Anyway, are we finished recording and everything?

[9:08:29] Voice 26: Are you?

[9:08:31] Trustee Luckham: oh no we're not adjourning we're recessing

[9:08:34] Voice 26: yeah sorry so i should i have recessed okay