Islands Trust Council regular meeting, January 15, 2024

[0:00:04] Trustee Gedye: All right. Good morning, everybody.

[0:00:08] Trustee Gedye: The morning of January the 15th, we'll start the meeting.

[0:00:12] Trustee Gedye: And we had an absolutely gorgeous sunrise here on N'Kuala Lumpur, Bowen Island.

[0:00:19] Trustee Gedye: And I was just thinking how lucky we are to live in this part of the world

[0:00:24] Trustee Gedye: and have all the benefits of everybody's care and consideration of where we live.

[0:00:33] Trustee Gedye: any rate um chair

[0:00:36] Voice 8: giddy just to stop you right there we don't have everybody quite here yet

[0:00:40] Voice 8: i

[0:00:41] Trustee Gedye: know but they're late okay

[0:00:42] Voice 8: okay just

[0:00:43] Trustee Gedye: wanted to let you know all right so um picking up on the

[0:00:51] Trustee Gedye: agenda um new items uh the ceo hiring is one any others not hearing anything um

[0:01:11] Trustee Gedye: is there any reordering that people want?

[0:01:14] Trustee Gedye: You'll notice that we don't have a continuation of the closed meeting.

[0:01:18] Trustee Gedye: We wanted to have a discussion with the lawyers who wrote the opinion for us

[0:01:24] Trustee Gedye: that we discussed in closed meeting last time.

[0:01:26] Trustee Gedye: We were going to continue, and that person is not available.

[0:01:29] Trustee Gedye: So that is, I hope, sufficient explanation.

[0:01:35] Trustee Gedye: And that will be hopefully – Ross, were you able to get hold of –

[0:01:40] Voice 6: I

[0:01:41] Trustee Gedye: can't remember her name, and set it up for February.

[0:01:44] Voice 6: Elisa, and she's in fact in court on our behalf

[0:01:48] Voice 6: today, so she just couldn't

[0:01:52] Voice 6: squeeze it in, and I've asked her to look at

[0:01:57] Voice 6: our next meeting and her court schedule, so

[0:02:01] Voice 6: that's for February, and it should be some reasonable time.

[0:02:05] Voice 6: We

[0:02:06] Trustee Gedye: haven't heard back on that?

[0:02:07] Voice 6: Nope, but

[0:02:08] Voice 6: But I'll follow up with you and provide that option.

[0:02:13] Voice 6: She's more than willing to attend, of course.

[0:02:15] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[0:02:17] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:02:17] Trustee Gedye: So I guess it's new business in terms of the CAO hiring.

[0:02:24] Trustee Gedye: So item number nine.

[0:02:27] Trustee Gedye: And there is a committee that's in the works,

[0:02:29] Trustee Gedye: but we'll talk about that more when that comes.

[0:02:31] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:02:32] Trustee Gedye: So any other additions, amendments, reorganizing for the agenda?

[0:02:40] Trustee Gedye: Hearing none.

[0:02:41] Trustee Gedye: none. Can I get approval of the agenda, please? Trustee Patrick? Seconder? I'll second it. Any

[0:02:54] Trustee Gedye: all in favor? Thank you. Okay, that's passed. Are there any members of the public present?

[0:03:06] Trustee Gedye: No? Okay. And are there any delegations? None that I know of. All right. So then we're into

[0:03:16] Trustee Gedye: to correspondence. There's three letters that have been attached to the agenda, all of them

[0:03:22] Trustee Gedye: from the Friends of the Gulf Islands Society. And I would like to suggest that we receive

[0:03:28] Trustee Gedye: those for information. And I believe we'll be able to talk a bit more about them on the

[0:03:35] Trustee Gedye: last item, which is the 7.4 communication of the Trust Council Section 3. And that's

[0:03:43] Trustee Gedye: primarily what that correspondence is

[0:03:48] Trustee Gedye: concerned with. Any objection to that suggestion?

[0:03:56] Trustee Gedye: Okay. Now, can I

[0:04:02] Trustee Gedye: I'm not going to fiddle with the technology. The next

[0:04:06] Trustee Gedye: is administration coordination, draft of the last previous minutes.

[0:04:12] Trustee Gedye: This could go by way of consent, possibly.

[0:04:15] Trustee Gedye: Is there any amendments or changes to that?

[0:04:19] Trustee Gedye: any problems with the minutes not seeing any um there we go um can i get a motion to uh uh adopt

[0:04:34] Trustee Gedye: the minutes of november the 9th 2023 anybody raise a hand motion to thank you trustee patrick

[0:04:46] Trustee Gedye: and trustee peterson seconding that any opposed thank you um the follow-up action list so that

[0:04:55] Trustee Gedye: That is part of item 7.1.

[0:04:58] Trustee Gedye: So let's go to business work program item 7.1.

[0:05:05] Trustee Gedye: Now, as I understand it, and Russ, you can correct me,

[0:05:08] Trustee Gedye: we have our matrix and I find that helpful.

[0:05:12] Trustee Gedye: I hope you do.

[0:05:13] Trustee Gedye: But we also have these follow-up action lists.

[0:05:18] Trustee Gedye: And that is the procedure that is followed by the trust.

[0:05:22] Trustee Gedye: and they get included in all of our agendas

[0:05:27] Trustee Gedye: so that we can keep track

[0:05:29] Trustee Gedye: and that's how everybody keeps track

[0:05:30] Trustee Gedye: of any of the resolutions that are made.

[0:05:34] Trustee Gedye: Some of the ones that we've seen have been completed

[0:05:37] Trustee Gedye: and we still have a number of them outstanding.

[0:05:40] Trustee Gedye: And from that, we have to decide

[0:05:43] Trustee Gedye: on what we're actually going to work on and spend time

[0:05:46] Trustee Gedye: and that action work plan has to be approved by council.

[0:05:51] Trustee Gedye: Is that correct, Russ?

[0:05:52] Trustee Gedye: uh

[0:05:53] Voice 6: generally that's correct um you're using your matrixes um to help guide your priority setting

[0:05:59] Voice 5: um

[0:06:00] Voice 6: and then the follow-up action list is actually tracking the the actual work um which would be

[0:06:06] Voice 6: you know would have the your priority items on them on

[0:06:11] Voice 6: it as well as anything else that's

[0:06:13] Voice 6: redirected towards you or

[0:06:15] Voice 6: things that you self-generate that might not be necessarily

[0:06:18] Voice 6: one of your priorities so it's it's the combination of these two things and then once a year most

[0:06:24] Voice 6: committees sit and just reflect on okay are we are our priorities in the right space what resources

[0:06:30] Voice 6: do we have and you know how do we get how do we schedule what we want done when so that's this

[0:06:36] Voice 6: opportunity

[0:06:37] Trustee Gedye: we also got feedback at the last council meeting that other trustees had not seen

[0:06:45] Trustee Gedye: our work plan in terms of approving it and whether or not their referrals have received

[0:06:53] Trustee Gedye: our attention and we're getting the work done.

[0:06:57] Trustee Gedye: So how does that work?

[0:06:59] Voice 6: Well, I don't know if I'd understand it that way.

[0:07:03] Voice 6: We've used your priority matrix as your work plan and at every meeting that I think I've

[0:07:09] Voice 6: been at at Trust Council, it is presented to them and they discuss it.

[0:07:13] Voice 6: And I think at the last one, there were two refinements to that saying, bring these things up in your area of importance.

[0:07:21] Voice 6: And now that's probably for you to figure out how to resource that and schedule it or when you're going to get to it.

[0:07:28] Voice 6: So they do see your work through the priorities matrix.

[0:07:31] Voice 6: They wouldn't see your follow up action list necessarily.

[0:07:35] Voice 6: Other committees, instead of having a priorities matrix, they have their, you know, their three projects.

[0:07:40] Voice 6: And then they have their, you know, the three projects list and then a long list, which is the things that are in a parking lot waiting to be done once the priority is undertaken.

[0:07:50] Voice 6: So it's a slightly different process, but I think Trust Council does get to see it.

[0:07:55] Trustee Gedye: Right.

[0:07:57] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:07:58] Trustee Gedye: So, but they don't necessarily get to change it for us.

[0:08:02] Trustee Gedye: They can make suggestions in terms of what they consider priorities, but we get to decide.

[0:08:08] Trustee Gedye: Well,

[0:08:09] Voice 6: David can help us there.

[0:08:11] Voice 12: Yeah, the council policy is that you are to provide your priorities to council.

[0:08:17] Voice 12: So as the CAO said, that's done through your matrix.

[0:08:20] Voice 12: And then council can direct changes to the committee.

[0:08:24] Voice 12: They did that last time to change your matrix to move an item around.

[0:08:29] Voice 12: And that was done on their behalf.

[0:08:32] Voice 12: So every time you go to council, you're recommended to council this is what you work on.

[0:08:36] Voice 12: but council can tell you know something else is more important we want you to work on that

[0:08:42] Trustee Gedye: okay all right so um 2024 um we've got a number of things that are in our matrix and on our

[0:08:52] Trustee Gedye: follow-up action list um let's start a discussion in terms of what we consider to be the priorities

[0:09:00] Trustee Gedye: um the matrix um yes thank you page 38 of the agenda um there's been a little bit of

[0:09:08] Trustee Gedye: movement around here but um basically i think this one's up to date um comments trustee peterson

[0:09:19] Trustee Gedye: mute

[0:09:23] Voice 4: thank you thank you chair um

[0:09:27] Voice 11: so i have some concerns about the trust council um governance

[0:09:37] Voice 11: review session um and that is i'm concerned that i i'm not i'm not convinced that march

[0:09:43] Voice 11: trust council is gonna provide us adequate time we did say in our in our

[0:09:52] Voice 11: resolution that we passed we said a special session but we didn't actually

[0:09:58] Voice 11: to my mind anyway I don't think that we decided it was at the March Trust

[0:10:04] Voice 11: Council and my impression was that it might be better to schedule either a

[0:10:10] Voice 11: a standalone session.

[0:10:15] Voice 11: I'm just concerned with the budget

[0:10:17] Voice 11: and other stuff that we have to do at Marsh Council

[0:10:21] Voice 11: that may not be the best time for us to do this,

[0:10:26] Voice 11: try and do this work in terms of trust council.

[0:10:28] Voice 11: So I just wanted to add.

[0:10:32] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:10:34] Voice 3: Yeah, just following up on that.

[0:10:41] Voice 3: When trust council weighs in

[0:10:44] Voice 3: or we have a discussion with trust council,

[0:10:47] Voice 3: about the um the governance report and its contents uh that's a logistical issue but

[0:10:54] Voice 3: that's separate from i think what this exercise is right now which is to really determine our

[0:11:00] Voice 3: priorities in accordance with you know the matrix system we've adopted and you know setting aside

[0:11:09] Voice 3: when we have that session uh i think certainly it's not explicitly stated in the urgent and

[0:11:16] Voice 3: high priority but trust council a couple of sessions ago did refer um the response to the

[0:11:23] Voice 3: province to us and that's intimately related to the review of the governance report and the input

[0:11:30] Voice 3: we get from trust council on that front but that is a priority and it seems to me that

[0:11:37] Voice 3: that may well be the top priority uh which is to is to start work on um some kind of communication

[0:11:47] Voice 3: to the province where we identify at a high level what the problems are as we understand them. When

[0:11:55] Voice 3: I say we, I don't mean just this committee. I mean Trust Council as a whole. But we can start

[0:12:01] Voice 3: working on preparing something like that before we get the input from Trust Council, because I

[0:12:06] Voice 3: don't think this is something we can just keep delaying forever. And, you know, we all have

[0:12:13] Voice 3: having encountered these various issues, we've worked on them,

[0:12:18] Voice 3: I think we can anticipate some of the direction

[0:12:21] Voice 3: that Trust Council is going to want to go into.

[0:12:24] Voice 3: And I think if we have some kind of draft to present to Trust Council,

[0:12:29] Voice 3: that may well be the better way to promote the discussion.

[0:12:33] Voice 3: In any event, the point I'm trying to make is I do think reaching out

[0:12:37] Voice 3: to the province with a well-considered and well-thought-out letter

[0:12:42] Voice 3: letter that has real detail into it may well be our top priority thank you anyone

[0:12:55] Trustee Gedye: else trustee

[0:13:00] Voice 9: patron i just want to confirm i mean there is an item on the agenda to discuss the this this

[0:13:05] Voice 9: letter and that we're not doing that right now we're just talking about priorities right um okay

[0:13:11] Voice 9: i just want to confirm because i'll have things to say about that so all right thanks okay so what

[0:13:18] Trustee Gedye: we've got in the matrix at this point is strategic and corporate planning and visioning process and

[0:13:24] Trustee Gedye: And that is still with the subcommittee of the Finance Advisory Committee.

[0:13:28] Trustee Gedye: Is that correct?

[0:13:30] Voice 6: Yes.

[0:13:31] Trustee Gedye: Russ?

[0:13:32] Voice 6: Yeah, I can provide a brief update there if you want, because, of course, this is your signal piece of work that you're undertaking.

[0:13:40] Voice 6: And if you wish.

[0:13:43] Voice 4: Sure.

[0:13:44] Voice 6: So this is on your follow-up action list.

[0:13:46] Voice 6: Listen, I do note that exactly as we were discussing earlier, the request by Trust Council for you to undertake a refinement of the letter to the province isn't on your priorities list right now.

[0:13:59] Voice 6: It's on your fuel. So really, this exercise is about harmonizing those things and balancing out your priorities.

[0:14:06] Voice 6: Certainly the corporate planning process is important. This is now significantly on my desk. My intention in the next three weeks or so is to provide staff work.

[0:14:20] Voice 6: The next thing that's needed to happen is staff work, and that is the subcommittee has provided a framework that we would input some analysis associated with how does this sync up with the strategic direction of the organization, budgeting, and departmental planning, setting long-range priorities and short-term priorities and goals.

[0:14:46] Voice 6: So they've asked for that work to be done. I need to have my staff with me. I need Julia, Claire, David, and probably the regional planning managers to review this.

[0:15:00] Voice 6: So that's my work over the next two or three weeks is to get that in place.

[0:15:04] Voice 6: place. Trust Council did receive a schedule. Generally, we're keeping to that schedule,

[0:15:13] Voice 6: but I do feel that this is where I'm turning most of my attention for the next two or three weeks.

[0:15:17] Voice 6: So that's ongoing work. There's a meeting we've scheduled for the end of this month with the

[0:15:23] Voice 6: FPC group, where we will more aggressively delve into what we've come up with. So that's the update

[0:15:31] Voice 6: data on the corporate planning process, I would recommend it stays as a fairly high priority,

[0:15:36] Voice 6: given that we're rolling through this budget and about to move into the next budget cycle.

[0:15:42] Trustee Gedye: In terms of staff time and that group of people, is that the same group that would be looking at

[0:15:50] Trustee Gedye: the governance review? The governance review

[0:15:53] Voice 6: will be primarily myself. Staff have already done,

[0:15:57] Voice 6: you know, a year and a half ago, an anecdotal review of the governance report, and we would

[0:16:02] Voice 6: provide you or trust counsel some um some just overview thoughts from a staff or administrative

[0:16:06] Voice 6: perspective um but it would lean from a resource perspective more on myself and perhaps david

[0:16:13] Voice 6: marler it wouldn't be the complete thing certainly for the corporate process we're going to need some

[0:16:20] Voice 6: time from julia and at administrative services and she's pretty um full up but um we've talked

[0:16:28] Voice 6: and we're hoping to schedule something in the next two or three weeks okay

[0:16:32] Trustee Gedye: so in terms of staff

[0:16:33] Trustee Gedye: resources then you're focusing on between now and our next meeting for instance you're focusing in

[0:16:39] Trustee Gedye: the march council meeting you're focusing on the strategic planning two things

[0:16:44] Voice 6: two things i'm

[0:16:45] Voice 6: focusing on the corporate planning process and um a staff review of the governance review

[0:16:53] Voice 6: you um in

[0:16:55] Voice 6: the next three weeks before i'm trying to get that before your next meeting so i would

[0:16:59] Voice 6: hope that you would have a staff version of that for your next meeting to sit to sit with all right

[0:17:05] Trustee Gedye: so then next on the matrix and urgent and high priority is the meeting process um and that was

[0:17:11] Trustee Gedye: the um that might be at our february meeting um and we need to get that one sorted out um

[0:17:21] Trustee Gedye: basically finish that up so that we can decide what we're going to be doing

[0:17:24] Trustee Gedye: with that.

[0:17:26] Trustee Gedye: And that's hearing back from the lawyer and having another closed session,

[0:17:30] Trustee Gedye: right?

[0:17:31] Voice 4: Right.

[0:17:32] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[0:17:35] Trustee Gedye: So we'll leave it where it is and we'll hopefully finish it up or do

[0:17:39] Trustee Gedye: something with it on, park it somewhere in February.

[0:17:43] Trustee Gedye: Management structural review.

[0:17:44] Trustee Gedye: that is tied in with the provincial

[0:17:51] Trustee Gedye: request for the province to

[0:17:55] Trustee Gedye: review the Islands Trust. Correct, Joe?

[0:17:59] Voice 3: Yeah, I have a question about that because

[0:18:03] Voice 3: what does that actually mean? What did we mean by the term

[0:18:07] Voice 3: management structural review?

[0:18:10] Voice 3: This

[0:18:10] Trustee Gedye: is the language from the review and we've expanded

[0:18:15] Trustee Gedye: on it in all sorts of different directions so it's come up with you know all those questions

[0:18:22] Trustee Gedye: that we had at the last meeting in terms of how do we get on to the agenda and the structure of

[0:18:30] Trustee Gedye: committees and I mean that was a pretty expansive discussion that we had at the last meeting in

[0:18:35] Trustee Gedye: terms of all of the the structural issues I don't know that we've decided anything

[0:18:42] Trustee Gedye: think um in terms

[0:18:44] Voice 3: of specific questions thank

[0:18:46] Voice 3: you for that refresher you're jogging my memory now

[0:18:49] Voice 3: on that um thanks

[0:18:50] Trustee Gedye: trustee stamford yes

[0:18:55] Voice 7: thank you chair i just want to clarify because i

[0:18:58] Voice 7: wasn't able to attend the last meeting that um part of this wide-ranging discussion about a

[0:19:04] Voice 7: structural review is also staff structure it's not just board structure or is that not being

[0:19:11] Voice 7: part of the discussion at all?

[0:19:15] Trustee Gedye: Oh, I think staff will definitely be part of the discussion. That

[0:19:18] Trustee Gedye: was part of the feedback getting from them. Russ?

[0:19:21] Voice 6: My understanding of this item is that this was one

[0:19:25] Voice 6: of the recommendations out of the governance review that concurrent with the 15 recommendations,

[0:19:31] Voice 6: one of those 15 is this. And I think this appeared on your agenda as you were considering how to

[0:19:38] Voice 6: review the CAO position and that this was a constituent element of it and that's what got

[0:19:44] Voice 6: it into your urgent and high priority list. I don't have any specific work items associated

[0:19:50] Voice 6: with it unless directed by yourselves and if I guess the question would be would you advance this

[0:19:58] Voice 6: prior to having the analysis or coming to a concrete agreement around what elements of

[0:20:05] Voice 6: the governance review are your particular focus or this trust council's particular focus but I

[0:20:11] Voice 6: guess that would be a question for you to consider at some point yeah

[0:20:14] Trustee Gedye: I think that that's pretty

[0:20:15] Trustee Gedye: fundamental trustee Patrick yeah

[0:20:18] Voice 9: I think it's important to separate this is this is about

[0:20:21] Voice 9: internal man you know this is this was not about external structure of the organization it's the

[0:20:28] Voice 9: internal how do we align behind what we say is important that's kind of how the corporate

[0:20:33] Voice 9: planning and the and the organizational structure get you know get linked it's

[0:20:38] Voice 9: what's important how do we do it how is this organizational line behind the work

[0:20:41] Voice 9: it says it's important okay

[0:20:45] Trustee Gedye: so we need more of the corporate planning and we

[0:20:47] Trustee Gedye: need more of the staff input on the governance review and probably the

[0:20:55] Trustee Gedye: council's reaction to an input on the governance review so some of those other

[0:21:00] Trustee Gedye: Other things are more helpful in terms of helping us understand

[0:21:05] Trustee Gedye: and set up what the parameters are of what we would like to see happen

[0:21:11] Trustee Gedye: with a change in management or structure.

[0:21:15] Trustee Gedye: Would that be fair to say?

[0:21:19] Trustee Gedye: I see wheels moving.

[0:21:21] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:21:22] Voice 3: Well, what I'm hearing from the CAO and from Trustee Patrick is

[0:21:28] Voice 3: the management slash structure review is really referring more

[0:21:32] Voice 3: to the operational side of things.

[0:21:33] Voice 3: I don't know about the staff involvement.

[0:21:35] Voice 3: That gets a little tricky because, of course, we don't manage staff.

[0:21:40] Voice 3: And, you know, I said, you know, anyhow, that's something that can be a little tricky to manage there.

[0:21:45] Voice 3: But my understanding or from what I'm hearing is, you know, to follow up with Trustee Patrick,

[0:21:51] Voice 3: what she's saying here is that it's really an operational, how we organize ourselves operationally.

[0:21:58] Voice 3: And it's kind of related to the meeting process as well as to the corporate planning process.

[0:22:04] Voice 3: You can see with the corporate planning process, the way we've talked about it and the way it's been developed, there are strong implications there about how work is allocated, how it's conducted, how new work, it becomes a limit.

[0:22:20] Voice 3: You can't do new work when you've got the full pipeline already without taking some of those old things out.

[0:22:27] Voice 3: That's an operational issue.

[0:22:28] Voice 3: so the management structural review i don't again i don't think it's one of those things

[0:22:33] Voice 3: that necessarily has to wait for the completion of the governance review review or the strategic

[0:22:39] Voice 3: planning or corporate planning process to be completed i think it's one of those things that

[0:22:44] Voice 3: we could be working on in tandem that ties in with that um but you know we're gonna be

[0:22:53] Voice 3: uh it does relate also it may relate in part to the governance review if the letter or the

[0:23:02] Voice 3: things that we ask the province to look into uh relate to the or the actual you know statutorily

[0:23:09] Voice 3: mandated organizational structure that will have implications also operationally um subsequently

[0:23:16] Voice 3: so that's also a factor in there so it it kind of intersects with everything i think

[0:23:23] Trustee Gedye: exactly everything's overlapping all right i'm not suggesting that we not deal with it it's just

[0:23:31] Trustee Gedye: a matter of what else is in the works that would be helpful um representational differences um

[0:23:39] Trustee Gedye: that's a huge one and that's now been put into our urgent and high priority and i don't know

[0:23:52] Trustee Gedye: how to break that down in terms of working on it joe there

[0:23:59] Voice 3: you go again uh i i'm going to continue

[0:24:02] Voice 3: my you know lobbying about the uh getting work underway on um a letter to the province

[0:24:11] Voice 3: the representational difference is

[0:24:15] Voice 3: you know i've looked at it i actually spent a fair bit of time thinking about this over the

[0:24:19] Voice 3: past little while past past couple of months and i don't think there's any way we can solve it

[0:24:25] Voice 3: on our own uh it it really does come with the representational differences we have on trust

[0:24:31] Voice 3: council and i think you know what that's really referring to is the fact that we don't have

[0:24:35] Voice 3: representation by population on at trust council that is a design feature of the way the trust

[0:24:43] Voice 3: has been established by the legislation if we think it's problematic and personally i do

[0:24:50] Voice 3: do then i think that's something that we just have to sort of explain to the province because

[0:24:55] Voice 3: it's it's completely out of our hands and um i would think that that would be a prominent thing

[0:25:01] Voice 3: that would go in the in in whatever court which letter we write to the province um i think that

[0:25:08] Voice 3: would have that's a component of it i view representational differences as an element of the

[0:25:13] Voice 3: um the the communication we need to make with the province thanks trustee

[0:25:19] Trustee Gedye: stamford yeah i think

[0:25:25] Voice 7: I mean, there has been ongoing work with this concern, and there's only so much you can do when you're structurally set up the way you are.

[0:25:33] Voice 7: But, you know, so going back to the, I think it's 2007 Salt Spring Island governance report, where it made various recommendations, which were not accepted by the population of Salt Spring.

[0:25:48] Voice 7: So, I mean, that is a good resource. But externally, when I explain how our structure is, it's almost the opposite. There may be differences between islands on representation, but the overall representation is we've got more representation as a whole than almost any other group in BC.

[0:26:14] Voice 7: You know, we're

[0:26:15] Voice 7: averaging about, what, 1,200 to 1,500 per elected official across the region.

[0:26:21] Voice 7: So sometimes I kind of get a snort of derision when I say, look at the problem we have here with inequity, when overall we are actually overrepresented compared to the rest of the province.

[0:26:38] Voice 7: So, you know, I agree with Joe that it does sort of have to sit with the province, but there has been work done on it.

[0:26:46] Voice 7: And we have to try and put in perspective with where we sit compared to other organizations in British Columbia.

[0:26:56] Trustee Gedye: Thank you, Trustee Peterson.

[0:27:00] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair.

[0:27:01] Voice 11: Yeah, thank you, Trustee Stamford, for bringing up that point, because indeed on many of the smaller islands, our representation per capita is a lot higher, although not equal throughout the trust.

[0:27:17] Voice 11: The other issue that was mentioned in the governance report in terms of representation that we haven't touched on, I just want to point that out, is the suggestion of First Nations representation and the potential for other provincial representation on Trust Council.

[0:27:36] Voice 11: We haven't touched on those today, but those are in the report. I'm not advocating for or against either of those specifically, just reminding us that to me those are representation issues.

[0:27:49] Trustee Gedye: trustee middleton thank

[0:27:53] Trustee Middleton: you chair um yeah echoing trustee peterson that was

[0:27:57] Trustee Middleton: the main reference in the report around representation was indigenous and provincial

[0:28:02] Trustee Middleton: uh representation um and i would suggest that um we do have a more activist role to play in terms

[0:28:12] Trustee Middleton: of trying to figure out how indigenous representation might work on council and

[0:28:18] Trustee Middleton: communicating that to the province christy

[0:28:26] Voice 9: patrick i'll remind everyone that the uh under the action

[0:28:30] Voice 9: plan for uh dripa under the province they have an action to sort out first nations representation

[0:28:37] Voice 9: with regional districts it's a provincial action um and they've made regional districts a priority

[0:28:44] Voice 9: and we don't even show up in the action plan so i think representation is important that it be

[0:28:50] Voice 9: wrapped with the request to the province, because it's going to be a very difficult

[0:28:54] Voice 9: conversation to have at the Islands Trust when we have Salt Spring that is so underrepresented

[0:28:59] Voice 9: and small islands that might find this structure quite favorable. So this has to be linked with the

[0:29:06] Voice 9: province request.

[0:29:11] Trustee Gedye: I guess that brings up the question of, are we the right committee,

[0:29:19] Trustee Gedye: are we the only committee that should be working on this so the request of the province it seems

[0:29:23] Trustee Gedye: to me is much broader than just governance and it you know there's all sorts of budget and

[0:29:31] Trustee Gedye: other interests that come into this so this has been delegated to us as a committee

[0:29:40] Trustee Gedye: but I'm wondering if that is going to be sufficient I mean we can certainly help trust

[0:29:45] Trustee Gedye: Council, but I don't know that we've necessarily, again, it's cross-referenced a lot in terms of

[0:29:53] Trustee Gedye: these questions. So in terms of our work plan, are we the committee or do we try?

[0:30:00] Trustee Gedye: to come up with another group

[0:30:04] Trustee Gedye: of people that cross-references other committees to work

[0:30:08] Trustee Gedye: on this. Joe? I

[0:30:11] Voice 3: think we are the committee

[0:30:12] Voice 3: and I think I disagree with your

[0:30:17] Voice 3: premise, which is I don't think there's any

[0:30:22] Voice 3: expectation from Trust Council and I don't believe what was delegated

[0:30:25] Voice 3: to us was some overarching responsibility to communicate with the province about

[0:30:29] Voice 3: about all the different issues.

[0:30:31] Voice 3: You prefer to the budget and that sort of thing.

[0:30:33] Voice 3: No, that's not our business.

[0:30:35] Voice 3: I think executive committee with staff

[0:30:39] Voice 3: has been making those kind of more technical communications

[0:30:41] Voice 3: and then dealing with it kind of in the back room with,

[0:30:44] Voice 3: and we might be, for the time being,

[0:30:47] Voice 3: we might be better off just leaving it at that

[0:30:49] Voice 3: unless they have something that needs to come up

[0:30:51] Voice 3: for financial planning committee

[0:30:53] Voice 3: or trust council as a whole.

[0:30:54] Voice 3: But what I understand,

[0:30:56] Voice 3: and council's you know pretty clear and delegating to us was developing the response

[0:31:06] Voice 3: um to follow up on basically the brush off letter we got from the province the last time and last

[0:31:13] Voice 3: term when there was a communication to the province asking look you know we've got this

[0:31:17] Voice 3: governance review to need some help here with structure and the minister wrote back said look

[0:31:22] Voice 3: you just did this review there's an election happening you know come back to us later

[0:31:26] Voice 3: basically that's all around the governance review that's all around governance issues i think that's

[0:31:32] Voice 3: what our mandate is and i think that's the level at which our communication to the province i mean

[0:31:38] Voice 3: those are that's the parameters for our communication work with the province so i think

[0:31:42] Voice 3: yes we are the appropriate body to do it and the fact that all these governance issues intersect

[0:31:50] Voice 3: with the other activities of the trust that's to be understood they're governance issues

[0:31:54] Voice 3: issues um and i think the way we do the necessary consultation is by developing a draft of some sort

[0:32:01] Voice 3: and running it past trust council and using that as the starting point to having a kind of debate

[0:32:08] Voice 3: about what is it exactly with some precision that we want to take to the province and that we

[0:32:14] Voice 3: are agreed require intervention those types of discussions can in the abstract in front of

[0:32:22] Voice 3: trust council will go on forever if there's a document of some sort that just sets it out at

[0:32:28] Voice 3: least it's a framework for discussion and then the trust council is free to edit it and cut it out or

[0:32:32] Voice 3: just throw it out altogether but there's actually something concrete to work with and i i do think

[0:32:39] Voice 3: it's for us to start working on it i i don't view it as um you know as that daunting uh we're all

[0:32:46] Voice 3: familiar with what the issues are the question is how do we express it in a way that works for

[0:32:50] Voice 3: everybody thanks so

[0:32:57] Trustee Gedye: as we dig into it then we need we can figure out the questions that we

[0:33:03] Trustee Gedye: think we need to ask and the positions that we want to take and then we can figure out all the

[0:33:08] Trustee Gedye: gaps as well yeah

[0:33:12] Voice 3: i mean i think we can you know you know before even any drafting exercise you

[0:33:16] Voice 3: know okay at some point we can put on an agenda and we can actually in discussion prioritize the

[0:33:21] Voice 3: items that we think need to be in the letter you know and go from there

[0:33:24] Trustee Gedye: trustee peterson

[0:33:28] Voice 11: uh just further to what trustee bernardo said um in terms of the letter from the brush off letter

[0:33:35] Voice 11: from the province one of the uh points in that letter was come back you've got this governance

[0:33:42] Voice 11: report come back when you've done some work um and so in terms of a new uh or sort of updated

[0:33:52] Voice 11: letter to the province um i kind of feel like we want to be able to point out what the work we've

[0:34:00] Voice 11: done is and there's we have done a little bit of work but in terms of the volume of recommendations

[0:34:08] Voice 11: from the report itself there's a lot we haven't addressed yet um so that's just a consideration

[0:34:17] Voice 11: in my mind before we uh consider what we're going to put in a letter to back to the provinces what

[0:34:25] Voice 11: what boxes have we ticked off um we did the section three work the governance committee

[0:34:32] Voice 11: has been established but there's a whole lot of other stuff there we haven't got to

[0:34:36] Voice 11: and so uh i think that when we go back to the province we want to we want to be thinking about

[0:34:43] Voice 11: what can we say we've we've done there's a lot of stuff we haven't done and my

[0:34:48] Voice 11: concern is that clearly there's a bunch of stuff that the province has the

[0:34:54] Voice 11: authority that we don't have to do but I think that if we are talking to the

[0:34:58] Voice 11: province about getting those things under their consideration there I just

[0:35:05] Voice 11: don't want us to default back to getting another letter saying hey you've only

[0:35:09] Voice 11: established a committee and then section three what about all these other things so

[0:35:13] Voice 11: just a consideration there are

[0:35:17] Trustee Gedye: all the other things represented in our matrix or the

[0:35:20] Trustee Gedye: follow-up action list a lot of them yeah okay trustee patrick um

[0:35:28] Voice 9: we keep combining internal

[0:35:31] Voice 9: and external let's be clear when the review request was made and what the letter that came

[0:35:36] Voice 9: well let's start with the letter that came back from minister cullen then municipal affairs

[0:35:40] Voice 9: minister. He said he also wanted to understand the perspectives and the opinions of the newly

[0:35:45] Voice 9: elected trust consul had on the requested review. The requested review was about external. The

[0:35:53] Voice 9: original request made it clear that we were doing a governance report and we were committed to

[0:35:58] Voice 9: addressing the governance report, which addressed internal organizational issues. The request that

[0:36:04] Voice 9: was made of the province was external. The governance review specifically in the terms

[0:36:10] Voice 9: of reference to the consultants excluded legislative changes and basically the external

[0:36:16] Voice 9: and structure of the organization so we keep mixing the two um the request of the province

[0:36:21] Voice 9: is about the bigger issue the act the structure and um and that the governance review was

[0:36:28] Voice 9: acknowledged and said that we're working on our internal things but we need direction on these

[0:36:32] Voice 9: external things um

[0:36:40] Trustee Gedye: russ madam

[0:36:43] Voice 6: chair would it be okay if i offered a bit of advice fully aware

[0:36:46] Voice 6: that the advice might not be taken

[0:36:47] Voice 9: sure us

[0:36:50] Voice 6: no no no the unified wisdom of uh of the committee's

[0:36:56] Voice 6: um unassailable if you have something in urgent and high priority it needs to be defined because

[0:37:03] Voice 6: it it it has resource allocations associated with it

[0:37:07] Voice 5: and

[0:37:08] Voice 6: i don't think management and structure

[0:37:10] Voice 6: review is defined other than there's one two words there and an oblique reference to the to

[0:37:16] Voice 6: to the governance report. I would strike that because it's going to be contingent upon other

[0:37:22] Voice 6: things happening first. Representational differences you've just described as really

[0:37:27] Voice 6: being associated with the larger request of the province. I think you should take that request

[0:37:32] Voice 6: from the province, move it on to your urgent and high priorities list, and make representational

[0:37:38] Voice 6: differences a contingent part of that letter. And then you'll be able to have a scope discussion.

[0:37:45] Voice 6: I think with strategic corporate planning and visioning, you have a scoped document.

[0:37:49] Voice 6: Like, we know what we're doing there.

[0:37:50] Voice 6: We know what we're doing with the meeting process.

[0:37:53] Voice 6: We can actually, we have that scoped out.

[0:37:55] Voice 6: We don't have these next two scoped out, but it's our, they're undefined, but they're our urgent and high priorities.

[0:38:02] Voice 6: Either define them well or move them off.

[0:38:05] Voice 6: Bring in the, what sounds roundly like a high priority for this organization, that is engaging with the province through its letter.

[0:38:12] Voice 6: and tell trust council that representational differences is contingent or associated with

[0:38:18] Voice 6: the request of the province that's where we've nested it and then you have three urgent and

[0:38:23] Voice 6: high priority items and then you define those well and then you have resources associated with

[0:38:29] Voice 6: it and everything else gets done when it gets gets an opportunity is presented anyway i humbly

[0:38:36] Voice 6: offer that thought just as you try and organize your work planning

[0:38:42] Trustee Gedye: trustee peterson uh thank you

[0:38:46] Voice 11: chair um just the first in response to to trustee patrick's um comments about internal and external

[0:38:57] Voice 11: um i i agree however the the the governance report that we did receive made a number of

[0:39:03] Voice 11: recommendations that are external and and there may be others that trust council uh wants to

[0:39:09] Voice 11: pursue so i just want to make that point and uh secondly in terms of what uh the cao just said

[0:39:16] Voice 11: I agree that we want to figure out what of these items on our list are requests to the province that we want to flesh out a bit before we go and ask them.

[0:39:37] Voice 3: Yes, I think the CEO's suggestion is quite helpful.

[0:39:43] Voice 3: thoughtful uh his comment about you know the management structural review item being

[0:39:51] Voice 3: a little amorphous uh he used nicer words but we actually haven't defined it that well

[0:39:58] Voice 3: yeah that's the thing that's kind of i've been struggling with i mean we all see different

[0:40:02] Voice 3: operational things especially the how we do meetings and agendas and that kind of stuff

[0:40:06] Voice 3: that's all kind of a lurking issue and i think i think that's what we're talking about so i think

[0:40:12] Voice 3: think he does present us with a choice here we can either we need to fill out what that thing means

[0:40:19] Voice 3: and we could or we could limit ourselves I had mentioned before that it's really a review of

[0:40:29] Voice 3: how we do things operationally and I'm wondering if it can be merged with the strategic corporate

[0:40:35] Voice 3: planning visioning process such that we would say it's you know process and ancillary operational

[0:40:41] Voice 3: operational review or ancillary review of operational structure something like that

[0:40:48] Voice 3: so that it's all that gives us a context for what kind of operational review or management

[0:40:54] Voice 3: review we're really talking about so we can do it that way and i think he's absolutely right

[0:40:59] Voice 3: the representational representational difference is a subsidiary issue uh that belongs in the

[0:41:05] Voice 3: larger communication and it should probably just representational differences in the matrix should

[0:41:10] Voice 3: probably be replaced by uh you know developing uh a letter to the province or however you want

[0:41:18] Voice 3: to phrase phrase it um but with respect to the content which is i think we ought to be careful

[0:41:23] Voice 3: here not to sort of you burn up a lot of time talking about what ought to be in the letter and

[0:41:27] Voice 3: those differences we can hash that out at a different time but it certainly can't hurt

[0:41:32] Voice 3: to refer to things that we've done uh following the governance review if only to point out that

[0:41:38] Voice 3: they represent the boundary of what we can do and that yeah we're doing our bit but you know

[0:41:44] Voice 3: there's things that we can't do and here are the ones that we're talking about but i mean as i said

[0:41:49] Voice 3: well there's no need for us to really get into it back and forth about what ought or not ought

[0:41:53] Voice 3: not to be in the letter uh we're really talking about here is prioritizing our work uh content

[0:41:59] Voice 3: to follow. Thanks.

[0:42:03] Trustee Gedye: Thank you.

[0:42:09] Trustee Middleton: Yes, I think it's a good idea. Obviously, we're in a moving vehicle

[0:42:13] Trustee Middleton: here and things have changed. One of the significant things that I think

[0:42:18] Trustee Middleton: we should not underestimate the impact of that has changed is

[0:42:22] Trustee Middleton: our long-time CEO is retiring.

[0:42:26] Trustee Middleton: This will mean the organization will be different.

[0:42:30] Trustee Middleton: I think we need to be adapting

[0:42:34] Trustee Middleton: and also using what has been referenced

[0:42:37] Trustee Middleton: in the governance review at this time of change

[0:42:40] Trustee Middleton: on one of the items I'd suggest we do

[0:42:42] Trustee Middleton: is we look more seriously into the role of the secretariat

[0:42:47] Trustee Middleton: in reference to what we're asking

[0:42:50] Trustee Middleton: or what is possible through the public service agency

[0:42:55] Trustee Middleton: in terms of is that position possible

[0:42:59] Trustee Middleton: to have a direct report to trust counsel?

[0:43:01] Trustee Middleton: Must it be hired through the public service agency?

[0:43:04] Trustee Middleton: We know there's a difference there.

[0:43:05] Trustee Middleton: The consultants felt not, staff feel there is,

[0:43:08] Trustee Middleton: and we can have an opinion,

[0:43:10] Trustee Middleton: but we don't obviously have any factual basis for that.

[0:43:13] Trustee Middleton: We have to investigate.

[0:43:15] Trustee Middleton: And I would suggest that that's relevant to at this time

[0:43:18] Trustee Middleton: where we're obviously, maybe not us,

[0:43:20] Trustee Middleton: but the hiring committee would be looking

[0:43:21] Trustee Middleton: at the position profile of the CAO

[0:43:24] Trustee Middleton: and working with the public service agency

[0:43:27] Trustee Middleton: in terms of if there needs to be adjustments there.

[0:43:30] Trustee Middleton: and so I would say to be alive with the moment in terms of some of what was recommended in the

[0:43:36] Trustee Middleton: governance review and what is happening in the life of the trust is that we should move like

[0:43:43] Trustee Middleton: the in-house council is something that you know that that might be a separate discussion it might

[0:43:47] Trustee Middleton: be bundled in I don't know that wasn't what was said in the governance review the governance

[0:43:51] Trustee Middleton: review just talked about the secretariat position but there are questions around it that we have not

[0:43:56] Trustee Middleton: unanswered and now seems to be a pertinent and efficient time to answer those questions

[0:44:03] Trustee Middleton: and the management structural review can be moved into the left column for as our CEO points out

[0:44:09] Trustee Middleton: subsequent work down the road. So I would I mean I'm not making a motion I'm just suggesting that

[0:44:14] Trustee Middleton: for conversation but I would urge that that is how we conduct our work from here on in.

[0:44:22] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stamford?

[0:44:24] Voice 7: Yeah, I find that approach quite problematic.

[0:44:29] Voice 7: We keep speaking about the governance review as it is it.

[0:44:34] Voice 7: And yet it was just one part of an overall push to re-examine how we do business, why we do business.

[0:44:45] Voice 7: And it's all part and parcel with a number of other initiatives.

[0:44:49] Voice 7: That secretariat role, to look at it separately from an overall structural or management review, I think is really premature.

[0:45:01] Voice 7: I want to see it as part of an overall structural review.

[0:45:06] Voice 7: And if there's a place within it, based on where we're going and not based on a recommendation from a consulting group.

[0:45:20] Voice 7: Yeah, that is one of the most problematic recommendations

[0:45:25] Voice 7: that I saw in the review.

[0:45:28] Voice 7: So I just don't see it until we are looking

[0:45:32] Voice 7: at a much wider lens on where we're going.

[0:45:39] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris, your hand was up for a second.

[0:45:44] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris.

[0:45:45] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:45:46] Voice 13: I guess I just wanted to say that the governance review

[0:45:52] Voice 13: was commissioned by the Islands Trust

[0:45:57] Voice 13: Um, and it, um, you know, in, in hopes of reforming the governance structure so that we could, um, fulfill our responsibilities to set direction, um, you know, so little progress has been made in, um, implementing the reviews recommendations.

[0:46:20] Voice 13: It seems, you know, the way this back and forth seems to be going, you know, and some of the recent goings-ons, it seems that it's in danger of being lost.

[0:46:38] Voice 13: The governance committee was created to drive this change that was, you know, asked for us to, that the review asked for us to do.

[0:46:59] Voice 13: And structurally, you know, I don't know, I don't see how taking that out of the heightened urgent priority list is making any difference here.

[0:47:10] Voice 13: I guess I'm at a loss, really. Thanks.

[0:47:20] Trustee Gedye: All right. Anybody got any suggestions in terms of how to define some of these things or what?

[0:47:27] Trustee Gedye: Then where do we go now? We're looking at the the work plan and priorities for twenty twenty four.

[0:47:33] Trustee Gedye: It seems to me that what I'm hearing is that the request to the province is the highest priority and that the internal changes might come through the structural or sorry,

[0:47:49] Trustee Gedye: strategic corporate planning, and that we could start compiling

[0:47:53] Trustee Gedye: a long list of what we want the province to consider

[0:47:58] Trustee Gedye: in terms of external, some of the committee work,

[0:48:05] Trustee Gedye: some of the, you know, tightening up some of the definitions

[0:48:09] Trustee Gedye: in the roles of people in the committee,

[0:48:17] Trustee Gedye: the trustees in the various committees.

[0:48:20] Trustee Gedye: Lisa pointed out that she's representing the Conservancy and she's an ex officio member.

[0:48:29] Trustee Gedye: So what does that mean? And it's not very well defined in our bylaws.

[0:48:34] Trustee Gedye: So we've got some questions in terms of housekeeping and tidying up and clarification.

[0:48:39] Trustee Gedye: That is the responsibility of the legislators.

[0:48:47] Trustee Gedye: What do we want to do with this matrix in our work plan?

[0:48:51] Trustee Gedye: what's your highest priority trustee

[0:49:02] Voice 4: bernard sorry uh

[0:49:09] Voice 3: i i think we do need to you know

[0:49:12] Voice 3: remember we we're this is a continuing process and the strategic corporate planning visioning

[0:49:19] Voice 3: process needs to remain there as a top priority but we need i think for ourselves you know need

[0:49:27] Voice 3: to fill that out a little bit as to what it means right now because let's be honest after we got the

[0:49:32] Voice 3: ball rolling and the fpc working group has gotten underway we've taken kind of a backseat somewhat

[0:49:40] Voice 3: oversight role here but we're not really doing any of the heavy lifting but as we've discussed today

[0:49:47] Voice 3: there are other components of the strategic planning process including you know whatever

[0:49:53] Voice 3: operational changes that we think it might require that we might be able to weigh into

[0:49:57] Voice 3: anyhow there's room for there to for us to sort of uh fill in that and do some more work on it

[0:50:03] Voice 3: but it remains a it remains a priority for the organization and i think it should remain

[0:50:09] Voice 3: a top priority you know within the urgent high priority i think we need to be careful that you

[0:50:15] Voice 3: know to keep in mind that we ought not to be like thinking that we just got we can only do one thing

[0:50:21] Voice 3: at a time here so i'm reluctant to say absolute you know one thing should be absolute top priority

[0:50:27] Voice 3: not i view corporate planning to be a top priority i view developing a letter to the province

[0:50:34] Voice 3: a top priority of equal weight but but improving the meeting process remains an issue

[0:50:45] Voice 3: and as i mentioned before representational differences are now in the matrix i think

[0:50:50] Voice 3: can be subsumed into the letter to the province and i believe a substantial amount of the

[0:50:57] Voice 3: The management structural review could be subsumed in the corporate planning area.

[0:51:03] Voice 3: And on this committee, while the working group is developing the more technical financial side of it, on this side, we might well work on the management structural review stuff insofar as it relates to corporate planning.

[0:51:17] Voice 3: You know, we might be able to strike a working group here to sort of start working out some ideas on that front.

[0:51:23] Voice 3: So anyhow, to sum it up, the way I see the matrix is, yes, strategic planning remains a top priority, and we add to that as an ancillary item, a certain amount of operational review, letter to the province, which includes representational differences, keep working on the meeting process, make that better.

[0:51:43] Voice 3: And of course, we can come back to these things as we make progress. But, you know, that letter will take some effort because it is going to vacuum in a whole bunch of loose threads. And part of our work, I think, is to sort of organize that so that it can be discussed intelligibly by Trust Council. Thanks.

[0:52:05] Trustee Gedye: uh i

[0:52:07] Voice 11: agree uh the strategic uh corporate planning uh process um is a is a huge priority and we need

[0:52:16] Voice 11: to we need to uh uh you know leave that as as urgent and a high priority and um but i would

[0:52:22] Voice 11: say that uh i really think despite uh saying earlier that i don't think march is the best

[0:52:30] Voice 11: march trust council is the best time for the discussion i really think we do need to sit down

[0:52:34] Voice 11: and have that discussion with Trust Council about the report,

[0:52:39] Voice 11: the contents of the report.

[0:52:41] Voice 11: And, you know, unfortunately, since 2022,

[0:52:46] Voice 11: we haven't actually done that as a Trust Council in a real fulsome way.

[0:52:54] Voice 11: Because I think all of those things,

[0:52:58] Voice 11: Trust Council is going to weigh in on anything we send to the province.

[0:53:04] Voice 11: province um so i think you know uh procedurally it's better to hear from them before we start

[0:53:12] Voice 11: drafting stuff um it's going to inform the letter to the province and and so uh i actually think

[0:53:20] Voice 11: that is uh an important priority is to have that discussion um i don't want to wax too long on that

[0:53:29] Voice 11: but i actually feel that um especially dedicated session it you know was the was the words uh in in

[0:53:37] Voice 11: the emotion from this committee and and i don't think wedging it into a trust council is the way

[0:53:43] Voice 11: to give it the um the space it needs for full discussion i do have a number of notes when we

[0:53:53] Voice 11: to get to that section but uh um otherwise i would you know meeting meeting processes is of course

[0:54:01] Voice 11: super important despite uh the um the representational differences being put on our

[0:54:10] Voice 11: uh in in the urgent and high priority again i sure we can do that work around what our requests

[0:54:19] Voice 11: for the provinces i think there's a whole bunch of things in the terms of the request for the

[0:54:22] Voice 11: province that we need to do work on and i think the foundation of that is to have the discussion

[0:54:27] Voice 11: at uh trust council before we get there so that's my thought

[0:54:33] Trustee Gedye: trustee sam joe your hand is still up

[0:54:38] Trustee Gedye: is that new uh

[0:54:39] Voice 3: sorry no i forgot to take it down i'm sorry

[0:54:43] Trustee Gedye: trustee stanford yes

[0:54:46] Voice 7: thank you um further

[0:54:48] Voice 7: to trustee peterson's um comments um we never have responded to that report there's never been

[0:54:56] Voice 7: in an official um response there we've never had a chance to really gel that and i think it's really

[0:55:06] Voice 7: important because until we we come we have a proper response we're constantly going to have

[0:55:13] Voice 7: these um comments from various community groups that use parts of that report any way they see

[0:55:22] Voice 7: fit and we have no ability to respond back and say this is how we've taken this report here's

[0:55:29] Voice 7: parts that we'd like to move forward with here's parts that maybe um as a group especially the new

[0:55:35] Voice 7: new i'm going to use that in quotes um trustees see as um not really valid or

[0:55:44] Voice 7: or something that we want to work on differently.

[0:55:48] Voice 7: Until that happens, I don't,

[0:55:51] Voice 7: we're going to continue to sort of wander around a bit.

[0:55:55] Voice 7: And I am also frustrated that we aren't moving ahead and I understand why,

[0:56:01] Voice 7: but we have to be able to show some, show some work coming out of this.

[0:56:06] Voice 7: And I keep reiterating that report is just one part of the overall

[0:56:12] Voice 7: governance and it has far more influence and focus than maybe it should do and that's what

[0:56:19] Voice 7: i would like to hear in the discussion is that part of it okay

[0:56:25] Trustee Gedye: we're coming up to 10 o'clock so

[0:56:26] Trustee Gedye: our first hour has been um concerning this um chair yeah uh

[0:56:35] Voice 11: sorry to interrupt but i just got

[0:56:37] Voice 11: a message um uh can we check that i see the recording is on but i've got a message that

[0:56:43] Voice 11: the streaming doesn't seem to be working just wanted to see if we could take a moment to

[0:56:47] Voice 11: confirm with staff that the streaming is on just

[0:56:50] Voice 8: one moment please it does not look to be on it is

[0:57:07] Voice 8: oh yeah the meeting is being live streamed yes okay

[0:57:12] Voice 11: thank you sorry for the interruption

[0:57:14] Voice 11: is

[0:57:25] Voice 4: it over to me i

[0:57:28] Trustee Gedye: just had to turn off another phone joe

[0:57:34] Voice 4: mute

[0:57:38] Voice 3: i just wanted to agree with trustee samford that yes uh that trust you know the trust

[0:57:44] Voice 3: council needs to engage the report directly that's overdue it's been overdue for a long time

[0:57:48] Voice 3: and certainly nothing can go from us to the province uh until that happens well by us i

[0:57:55] Voice 3: mean trust council as a whole the organization as a whole and in that process as we develop

[0:57:59] Voice 3: what is trust council's position with respect to the report we will then develop the position

[0:58:06] Voice 3: we can take when we're asked by the public to explain how we how the organization stands with

[0:58:12] Voice 3: respect to this or that critique that's in the report the point i was making before was that

[0:58:18] Voice 3: we are the governance committee it falls to us actually to show that leadership to start that

[0:58:23] Voice 3: process um you know somebody has to bring something to trust council for to get the

[0:58:31] Voice 3: discussion going and what i'm arguing for is that we do it let's start working on this letter

[0:58:36] Voice 3: understanding that it's really something akin to a white paper that we just bring forward and say

[0:58:41] Voice 3: okay folks you know we've got some thoughts here we don't own them it's up to you guys to think

[0:58:47] Voice 3: what you want to do with this stuff but and you know you can decide what what's a priority

[0:58:52] Voice 3: or whether anything is even relevant but you know we assist our colleagues our other colleagues on

[0:58:59] Voice 3: trust council by doing that work where the governance committee let's let's give them a

[0:59:06] Voice 3: draft to work with so they can organize their thoughts and we can start the process. I think

[0:59:10] Voice 3: it does fall to us to do that. Thank you. Thank you.

[0:59:17] Trustee Middleton: Just elaborating on that, I do think we have

[0:59:21] Trustee Middleton: to be a bit more than neutral in our work here. I mean, being neutral, we've seen already the

[0:59:28] Trustee Middleton: wheels just spin and spin and spin because we're never actually engaging with what are obviously

[0:59:35] Trustee Middleton: obviously objections some of us have to the work that was done or recommended. We've heard from

[0:59:40] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Stanford. She has clear dislike for some of the recommendations. Well, we need to talk

[0:59:48] Trustee Middleton: about that. We're just going to spin our wheels if we don't actually address that. And if we don't

[0:59:53] Trustee Middleton: address it here, it won't get addressed at Trust Council. You know, the report was commissioned in

[1:00:00] Trustee Middleton: good faith with a clear set of objectives it produced a clear set of recommendations

[1:00:05] Trustee Middleton: there was opportunity to engage with the consultants on those recommendations

[1:00:10] Trustee Middleton: I think if you if some of us don't agree with them we need to say so we need to start to put

[1:00:17] Trustee Middleton: that type of thing on the table so we can actually move forward because we're really not and moving

[1:00:23] Trustee Middleton: moving this lack of agreement or disagreement to trust counsel will result in exactly the same

[1:00:29] Trustee Middleton: thing. I mean, there's very clear, specific recommendations. We did the work at the beginning

[1:00:34] Trustee Middleton: of this committee, which I think we probably need to go back and look at those papers. Joe

[1:00:38] Trustee Middleton: wrote a lengthy one. I wrote a lengthy one where we actually analyzed the content of the report

[1:00:44] Trustee Middleton: and gave our responses to what we felt was useful going forwards. We perhaps need to visit that work

[1:00:50] Trustee Middleton: because trying to define three words, management slash structural review, as direction for how we

[1:00:57] Trustee Middleton: proceed is obviously not helpful to us. And, you know, legitimately, if there are members who

[1:01:03] Trustee Middleton: disagree with the results of the review, that is absolutely every member's purview. But we need to

[1:01:09] Trustee Middleton: talk about it. And we need to know why and what can we hash out and move forward on. I don't feel

[1:01:15] Trustee Middleton: we're doing that right now. We're sort of dancing around these issues, it seems to us, for whatever

[1:01:19] Trustee Middleton: memories thank you okay

[1:01:24] Trustee Gedye: um trustee harris and then i want to wrap this up i couldn't agree

[1:01:29] Voice 13: more with what lee has just said there um we need to get things moving all

[1:01:37] Trustee Gedye: right so um

[1:01:40] Trustee Gedye: in summation we've um in the urgent and high priority um we're going to keep the corporate

[1:01:46] Trustee Gedye: and strategic planning and that's going to be the um the bulk of the staff resourcing that's

[1:01:53] Trustee Gedye: It's going to go into that in the next little while.

[1:01:55] Trustee Gedye: And that might involve internal operational changes,

[1:02:01] Trustee Gedye: and that is going to be something that we'll look at

[1:02:04] Trustee Gedye: in terms of this management and structural review that's on our plate.

[1:02:10] Trustee Gedye: The request to the province is next priority.

[1:02:16] Trustee Gedye: It's a larger, well, it may not be larger, but it's a broad area,

[1:02:21] Trustee Gedye: parts of which are going to be getting some sort of an analysis

[1:02:28] Trustee Gedye: in front of the whole Trust Council and getting feedback

[1:02:31] Trustee Gedye: and other issues in terms of representation.

[1:02:36] Trustee Gedye: So pretty broad issues.

[1:02:38] Trustee Gedye: It's not necessarily going to require staff resources immediately.

[1:02:43] Trustee Gedye: So once we finish and get deeper into corporate planning

[1:02:47] Trustee Gedye: and having the staff resources used on that,

[1:02:50] Trustee Gedye: then we're going to move on to and at the same time work on amongst ourselves probably without

[1:02:56] Trustee Gedye: taking up staff resources some of this the items on the request to the province and then

[1:03:05] Trustee Gedye: we're going to continue and hopefully finish up at some point fairly soon on the

[1:03:09] Trustee Gedye: meeting processes how does that sound in terms of a summary and a work plan yep makes sense to me

[1:03:18] Trustee Gedye: any objection to that does that help you russ well

[1:03:27] Voice 6: emotion would help madam chair just to just

[1:03:31] Voice 6: to do that realignment um because what i think i'm hearing is well i want to make sure i know what

[1:03:38] Voice 6: i'm hearing um do you want how would that be summarized in terms of what's in that top

[1:03:45] Voice 6: quadrant would we be moving management structural review out getting rid of representational

[1:03:50] Voice 6: differences rationalizing it into and moving up the letter uh focus on the letter and have those

[1:03:55] Voice 6: the threes um i just want to make sure that your intentions are clear and um we're able to assist

[1:04:02] Voice 6: where we can

[1:04:03] Trustee Gedye: trustee middle thank

[1:04:08] Trustee Middleton: you yeah i i mean i echo that again what our ceo just said i i

[1:04:13] Trustee Middleton: would i would um i won't make it yet i just want to make sure it'd be useful to us but if i need

[1:04:18] Trustee Middleton: but i'll make it that we move management structural review and representational representational

[1:04:23] Trustee Middleton: differences into the not immediate but important and i i would seek that we move the secretariat

[1:04:29] Trustee Middleton: research into urgent and high priority i

[1:04:36] Voice 3: don't think that's what the chair was talking about

[1:04:38] Voice 3: in terms of education so

[1:04:42] Trustee Middleton: i guess you would say i disagree then which um if that is the case then

[1:04:45] Trustee Middleton: And if that is the case,

[1:04:46] Trustee Middleton: I disagree with the characterization of our work plan.

[1:04:53] Voice 4: Okay, fair enough.

[1:04:54] Trustee Gedye: Well, I think in terms of...

[1:04:59] Voice 3: If I can step

[1:05:00] Trustee Gedye: in, I'm sorry,

[1:05:00] Voice 3: Chair Getty,

[1:05:01] Voice 3: but I mean, the fact that Trustee Middleton

[1:05:03] Voice 3: has a different view of it confirms, I think,

[1:05:05] Voice 3: the point that the CAO is making,

[1:05:07] Voice 3: which is for an abundance of clarity, we probably...

[1:05:10] Voice 3: I was actually going to disagree with the CAO saying,

[1:05:13] Voice 3: oh, we can just travel by consent, but apparently we can't.

[1:05:15] Voice 3: So I think his suggestion that we have a motion

[1:05:18] Voice 3: motion with you know rather than rehash everything have a motion uh to see whether or not your

[1:05:24] Voice 3: summation is satisfactory to the majority of the group and then we could go from there

[1:05:31] Voice 3: along those lines i guess i should make the motion and i wasn't planning on it but let's see

[1:05:35] Voice 3: i move that the urgent and high priority matrix or that the urgent and high priority

[1:05:44] Voice 3: quadrant of the matrix contain the following items and uh if you i'm sorry if if i can see

[1:06:00] Voice 3: the screen uh where the text of current sector thank you uh no not that the other one sorry

[1:06:06] Voice 3: right uh contain the following items uh strategic slash corporate planning slash

[1:06:14] Voice 3: and visiting process and related operational uh review second

[1:06:29] Voice 4: book okay so

[1:06:31] Voice 8: so far i have

[1:06:32] Voice 8: that the urgent and high priority quadrant of the matrix contain the following items

[1:06:39] Voice 8: strategic corporate planning that first um item and then related operational review

[1:06:47] Voice 8: and then continue please well

[1:06:49] Voice 3: well what i'm saying i'm saying that's all one bullet point

[1:06:52] Voice 3: the first bullet point would be strategic corporate planning visioning process and

[1:06:56] Voice 3: related operational review okay

[1:07:00] Voice 4: one moment thank

[1:07:23] Voice 8: you for your patience uh

[1:07:35] Voice 3: yeah that's one bullet

[1:07:36] Voice 3: point and then the second bullet point would say uh response to the province

[1:07:47] Voice 4: and

[1:07:51] Voice 3: then a third bullet point would say meeting process it would just reproduce what's already

[1:07:55] Voice 3: here meeting process by law 101 and policies would you consider

[1:08:12] Voice 4: sorry

[1:08:13] Trustee Gedye: joe would you consider that

[1:08:15] Trustee Gedye: the uh representational differences and the um review of the governance review with trust

[1:08:24] Trustee Gedye: council are subsumed under the request of the province or response yes

[1:08:29] Voice 3: that's how i'm reading

[1:08:30] Voice 3: that's that's that's where i'm coming from like there are implications what i'm working with here

[1:08:37] Voice 3: is like in order to have the response to the province you know we need to do we need to have

[1:08:43] Voice 3: all that consultation with trust council and trust council has to approve the the thing in any case

[1:08:48] Voice 3: and we've already just i mean there's a limit to how much we have to resolve here i mean

[1:08:51] Voice 3: i think we understand what the work is it's involved and i i could have worked in representational

[1:08:57] Voice 3: differences but i just also assumed in that i think and uh that's it that's the motion

[1:09:02] Voice 3: motion okay

[1:09:04] Trustee Gedye: um seconder for trustee stanford your hand is up is that for seconding or something else

[1:09:13] Voice 7: i'm willing to second but i just have something uh for clarity but yes i'd like to second it for

[1:09:22] Voice 7: discussion purposes um and just make a comment um do we have a clear outline of what it is we're

[1:09:32] Voice 7: trying to solve with changing the meeting process um what are the problems specifically and how does

[1:09:43] Voice 7: like just simply say meeting process i'm not sure is clear enough in what we're trying to do with

[1:09:50] Voice 7: that um i

[1:09:52] Trustee Gedye: think i

[1:09:54] Voice 4: can answer that can

[1:09:54] Trustee Gedye: we sorry can we leave that um definition or uh outline of the

[1:10:01] Trustee Gedye: meeting process in terms of um if you mentioned earlier in the meeting that you hadn't uh because

[1:10:07] Trustee Gedye: you'd missed the last meeting which we discussed that that there's some okay

[1:10:11] Voice 7: well okay so yeah okay

[1:10:14] Voice 7: so i'm more than happy to take that offline i don't want to waste anyone's time okay

[1:10:20] Trustee Gedye: spend some time sorry joe

[1:10:24] Voice 3: yeah just a i mean it's just

[1:10:26] Voice 3: a question but i just wanted to point

[1:10:28] Voice 3: up trustee stafford yes we we actually did hash out some dimensions to it not completely but of

[1:10:34] Voice 3: course this is something that the dimensions of things get filled out as you work on the project

[1:10:41] Voice 3: but the there are two components to the mining process which is the legal formality you should

[1:10:46] Trustee Gedye: be getting into it now please we can just deal with

[1:10:50] Voice 3: this motion i'm just trying to satisfy the

[1:10:53] Voice 3: question from the trustee one is the legal dimension to it that's one component the other

[1:10:59] Voice 3: component is operationally how we run meetings within the trust and there's a lot of dissatisfaction

[1:11:05] Voice 3: and amongst trustees and we need to address it that in broad strokes that's the issue

[1:11:12] Trustee Gedye: any other discussion on the motion rusty middleton yeah

[1:11:23] Trustee Middleton: and in in general the content is of course um

[1:11:27] Trustee Middleton: acceptable it's really the question of the prioritization of the work and again

[1:11:31] Trustee Middleton: i mean i'm sort of happy to live with what is here except i really do feel um

[1:11:38] Trustee Middleton: The time is now to address this question of the role of a secretariat and its feasibility within its legal relationship to trust counsel, I guess, is really the question.

[1:11:57] Trustee Middleton: And so I don't know if it would be considered a friendly amendment, but I would seek to add the Secretary of Rural Research would be my desire.

[1:12:07] Trustee Middleton: And then I'm happy to support the motion.

[1:12:15] Voice 13: Trustee Harris.

[1:12:16] Voice 13: I'm in the same boat.

[1:12:18] Voice 13: I think that the Secretary to Trust Council needs to be added to this for me to support it.

[1:12:27] Trustee Gedye: um lee we've since the beginning of this committee um that has been a very high priority for you and

[1:12:34] Trustee Gedye: i've um i still don't understand what it means and what the position is and what it would cost

[1:12:41] Trustee Gedye: and um what the the job description would be and what the function would be and i know that that

[1:12:48] Trustee Gedye: was a recommendation from the review and it's something that um if we if we move that from

[1:12:57] Trustee Gedye: from not immediate but important into any other, into urgent and high priority.

[1:13:04] Trustee Gedye: It's also something that would have to be talked about at the council level.

[1:13:08] Trustee Gedye: It's something that needs to be, I think, fleshed out and expanded and explained.

[1:13:18] Trustee Gedye: And you had agreed a couple of times to do the background and research and present it

[1:13:25] Trustee Gedye: so that we, I, at least some of us, myself, could better understand what it was about.

[1:13:30] Trustee Gedye: So I think in terms of, I know that you feel very strongly about it.

[1:13:39] Trustee Gedye: I don't understand what it is.

[1:13:40] Trustee Gedye: So it's something that needs to have some work.

[1:13:44] Trustee Gedye: It is included in the review of the review that would go to Trust Council.

[1:13:50] Trustee Gedye: council so um i don't know if anybody joe are you prepared to accept a friendly amendment to

[1:14:00] Trustee Gedye: move it up uh

[1:14:01] Voice 3: i can accept a friendly amendment i'm neutral on the point uh if the group wants

[1:14:06] Voice 3: to have that as a priority it can i also point out that you know before it goes into that quadrant

[1:14:12] Voice 3: if a group wants to see it more developed these quadrants are you know they're malleable we can

[1:14:19] Voice 3: change them from meeting to meeting but you know if lee and jamie and others think it's useful to

[1:14:24] Voice 3: proceed with where we're at right now really is the only the work there is work to be done to

[1:14:31] Voice 3: exactly what you've spelled out to fill out exactly what that would involve so the the only

[1:14:39] Voice 3: item that could go in i think if we added it would be something along the lines of research of the

[1:14:44] Voice 3: the you know viability of developing the corporate secretary position or something like that i don't

[1:14:50] Voice 3: know i would leave it to lee to develop what he wants done but it really would be basic research

[1:14:55] Voice 3: work to get that going uh it seems to me that it might be something that might um if it goes into

[1:15:04] Voice 3: the quadrant that might require a certain amount of staff support to do the research

[1:15:09] Voice 3: so that that's a consideration as well but anyhow to answer your question uh you know i don't have

[1:15:14] Voice 3: have any objection to it i'm kind of neutral on the point

[1:15:17] Trustee Gedye: christy stamford

[1:15:20] Voice 7: yeah i would withdraw

[1:15:22] Voice 7: my seconding of the motion i think it changes it substantially i it's it's not that i'm against the

[1:15:29] Voice 7: the idea of it it just needs to fit in to the greater structural considerations i want to know

[1:15:38] Voice 7: how it fits in with everything else i want to see a management structure report a review done

[1:15:44] Voice 7: and how that fits into it

[1:15:46] Voice 7: before I want to spend a lot of time on it.

[1:15:49] Voice 7: There's just way too many questions

[1:15:52] Voice 7: that are dependent on other information

[1:15:54] Voice 7: as we move forward with the governance review.

[1:15:58] Voice 7: So I would not be able to support the motion

[1:16:00] Voice 7: as Stanson would draw my seconding.

[1:16:04] Voice 3: Well, the motion is as you said.

[1:16:06] Voice 7: It's an amendment at this point.

[1:16:07] Voice 3: It seems like you're opposed to the amendment.

[1:16:11] Voice 7: Yes, I am.

[1:16:12] Voice 3: Yeah.

[1:16:14] Voice 9: Trustee Patrick.

[1:16:15] Voice 9: well uh there is no amendment on the table at the moment i suggest that we uh have that

[1:16:20] Voice 9: secretariat conversation at the agenda item regarding the new cao because i think that's

[1:16:25] Voice 9: what if if there's an urgency here it's is there skills or aspects of that secretary role that

[1:16:31] Voice 9: would need to be um considered in the development of the job profile for the future um cao so i'd

[1:16:38] Voice 9: suggest that we address that issue later in the agenda oh

[1:16:44] Voice 6: hudson bill um madam chair i just um

[1:16:48] Voice 6: I heard the idea that you would have trustees or members of committee do the research.

[1:16:56] Voice 6: I would urge you not to have that research go directly to Trust Council without some staff or administrative analysis on this matter.

[1:17:07] Voice 6: They would be significant.

[1:17:10] Voice 6: And a good decision needs all the inputs it needs.

[1:17:16] Voice 6: needs. So in terms of however you land this, my recommendation to you is to ensure that there is

[1:17:23] Voice 6: administrative review of that particular recommendation from the governance committee

[1:17:30] Voice 6: report.

[1:17:31] Voice 3: And CEO, just for clarity, you're referring to the corporate secretary question?

[1:17:36] Voice 3: Thank you. Is that right?

[1:17:43] Trustee Gedye: We're asked to appear to be frozen.

[1:17:47] Voice 3: Well, I understood him to be referring to the

[1:17:49] Voice 3: corporate secretary position i would agree i mean it's a i mean it would be a significant

[1:17:53] Voice 3: structural change to staff workflow so yeah we definitely have to have input from the staff on

[1:18:00] Voice 3: that and its input on that point question is whether we put this on the urgent high priority

[1:18:05] Voice 3: point now or you do it at a different time uh you know i wouldn't want that to be the sticking point

[1:18:13] Voice 3: for this, you know, for us to, I mean, we seem to be in agreement about that these three things

[1:18:20] Voice 3: are things that have to happen. We really do. So I'm sorry, we need to move it along, I guess.

[1:18:27] Voice 3: Thank you. Trustee Middleton.

[1:18:31] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Yes. And I took the CAO's point previously to not

[1:18:35] Trustee Middleton: sort of freelance the research into this because of the, obviously, the import that he felt the

[1:18:40] Trustee Middleton: the position had. And so I guess what I'm saying is we're just, you know, I'm hearing

[1:18:45] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Stemper say there are lots of questions. I hear you, Chair, say I'm not understanding what

[1:18:49] Trustee Middleton: this position is. I'm suggesting a minimal definition approach, which frankly, I think

[1:18:57] Trustee Middleton: the CAO has talked to this before, might actually lead to a legal question. And it's at that point

[1:19:03] Trustee Middleton: where trustees can decide, do they want to proceed with placing that legal question about the

[1:19:10] Trustee Middleton: relationship of a secretariat to trust council. So this is simply to research the role per, again,

[1:19:17] Trustee Middleton: our CEO's suggestion last time to not have committee members freelance this, but actually

[1:19:23] Trustee Middleton: create a basic research question as to what would the secretariat role be for trust council,

[1:19:33] Trustee Middleton: how would it function, and what are its precedents, if any. We were told there are many. I've seen

[1:19:39] Trustee Middleton: seen some, but I, you know, again, I want to, I want to follow process here and just have this

[1:19:44] Trustee Middleton: be a piece of research. It's not being endorsed at this current time. It's actually just a question

[1:19:50] Trustee Middleton: of some research.

[1:19:55] Trustee Gedye: So I've heard it then being included in terms of some sort of corporate

[1:20:01] Trustee Gedye: planning, internal management, creating a position, and then Trustee Patrick suggesting that it also

[1:20:10] Trustee Gedye: will be considered part of the I guess the job description a role of and connected somehow with

[1:20:17] Trustee Gedye: the CAO hiring process so if we have the urgent and important matrix can including corporate

[1:20:27] Trustee Gedye: planning with management and structure being subsumed under that and operational changes

[1:20:34] Trustee Gedye: the request to the province, including representation and a review by the Trust Council of the governance review and meeting process, then that is defined.

[1:20:51] Trustee Gedye: Is that enough detail for the definition for the staff allocations?

[1:21:02] Trustee Gedye: Is

[1:21:07] Voice 6: that a question to me, Madam Chair?

[1:21:09] Voice 6: Yes, please.

[1:21:11] Voice 6: Well, I'm getting a little nervous because I think you're redefining everything, keeping everything, and re-terming it.

[1:21:20] Voice 6: So, the secretariat question, if we're lingering on that, that's a significant piece of work.

[1:21:27] Voice 6: I guess you'd be asking me to do that, or someone in my position should be doing that.

[1:21:33] Voice 6: So then that's for, you know, you'll have to prioritize for me what work is to be done.

[1:21:39] Voice 6: John, the corporate planning process, the meeting process, the letter to the province, and the secretariat analysis, if you're still considering that, that's for, it just isn't that much of me to go around.

[1:21:59] Voice 6: Cloning.

[1:22:00] Voice 6: Cloning might be an option.

[1:22:03] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:22:04] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris.

[1:22:04] Voice 13: Would it not be helpful to defer this portion of reinventing or changing around the matrix until after we talk about the hiring of the CAO, as there's much in there that might, you know, move us one way or the other and are urgent and high priority discussions?

[1:22:23] Voice 13: discussions well

[1:22:24] Trustee Gedye: we're into this now deep it's now 10 20 so and if we can figure out the work

[1:22:30] Trustee Gedye: plan and the matrix that would we can you know that sort of sends us off in a different direction

[1:22:37] Trustee Gedye: trustee peters uh

[1:22:40] Voice 11: yeah madam chair just procedurally do we have an amendment uh is

[1:22:44] Voice 11: there a an amendment moved and seconded at this point because my suggestion is that either a

[1:22:51] Voice 11: motion is made and seconded to amend or we just go back to the original motion and go from there

[1:22:57] Voice 11: and

[1:22:59] Voice 7: i haven't withdrawn it on the original motion okay how

[1:23:05] Voice 3: about we just have a vote

[1:23:06] Voice 3: on the original motion

[1:23:08] Trustee Gedye: trustee middleton you're mute

[1:23:15] Voice 8: we can't hear you

[1:23:17] Trustee Middleton: sorry um i

[1:23:18] Trustee Middleton: i wasn't entirely convinced that the mover didn't consider my suggestion a friendly amendment um

[1:23:25] Trustee Middleton: But if not, I'm happy to make a motion that secretarial research be added as one of the bullet points in the urgent and high priority quadrant of this motion.

[1:23:42] Trustee Gedye: Is there a seconder? Trustee Heron? Are you seconding it?

[1:23:53] Voice 4: Yes.

[1:23:53] Voice 4: All

[1:23:56] Trustee Gedye: right. Any more discussion on the amendment? I'll call a vote on the amendment that the Secretary at Hiring In-House Legal Counsel needs research to be added to the urgent and high priority quadrant. Everybody understand the amendment? Any questions?

[1:24:23] Trustee Gedye: All right. All those in favor of the amendment?

[1:24:47] Voice 12: I'm sure getting muted.

[1:24:53] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, David, did you say something?

[1:24:57] Voice 12: I just let you know that you were muted.

[1:24:59] Voice 12: yeah

[1:24:59] Trustee Gedye: and that was

[1:25:02] Trustee Gedye: i don't have enough hands defeated i

[1:25:07] Trustee Gedye: thought it would pass i thought

[1:25:09] Trustee Gedye: there were four votes and only myself voting against okay

[1:25:13] Voice 11: uh point of order madam chair

[1:25:18] Voice 11: i i didn't hear you say uh those against um i only could you we just rehab the vote just for

[1:25:27] Voice 11: clarity okay

[1:25:28] Trustee Gedye: i did but um maybe it didn't get heard okay let's have a revote um all those in

[1:25:36] Trustee Gedye: favor of the amendment i've got middleton bernardo harris and peterson okay hands down

[1:25:46] Trustee Gedye: all those in favor or sorry oppose i i can't find my hand up so stanford getty

[1:25:58] Trustee Gedye: Gavreau.

[1:26:00] Voice 12: Yeah.

[1:26:01] Voice 12: So that's four in favor, three opposed.

[1:26:05] Trustee Gedye: Right.

[1:26:08] Voice 6: Did everyone vote?

[1:26:10] Voice 6: Sorry?

[1:26:11] Voice 6: Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see whether all the votes...

[1:26:13] Voice 9: I abstain, which I understand is a vote in favor.

[1:26:16] Voice 6: Correct.

[1:26:18] Trustee Gedye: All right. So the amendment

[1:26:21] Trustee Gedye: passes. So then we get into the original

[1:26:23] Trustee Gedye: motion with the amendment, and

[1:26:25] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stamford,

[1:26:28] Trustee Gedye: you then, I would assume,

[1:26:30] Trustee Gedye: wish to withdraw your seconding?

[1:26:32] Trustee Gedye: Can we hear

[1:26:36] Voice 11: from Mr. Berger on this?

[1:26:38] Voice 7: It seems a bit ridiculous, but I'm just not sure.

[1:26:47] Trustee Gedye: Okay, somebody else is speaking.

[1:26:49] Trustee Gedye: I can't, who was that?

[1:26:53] Voice 3: That's me.

[1:26:53] Voice 3: I've got a question.

[1:26:54] Voice 3: Is it possible to withdraw a seconding?

[1:26:57] Voice 12: No, if I may, once it's seconded, it's with the committee.

[1:27:03] Voice 12: So you should just vote on it.

[1:27:04] Voice 12: If you disagree with seconding it, then you can just vote against it when it comes up.

[1:27:10] Voice 12: But you can't withdraw it.

[1:27:11] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[1:27:14] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:27:15] Trustee Gedye: So we have a motion.

[1:27:23] Trustee Gedye: Urgent high priority quadrant of the matrix contain the following strategic corporate planning,

[1:27:27] Trustee Gedye: visioning process and related operational review, response to the province and meeting process bylaw 101 policies.

[1:27:34] Trustee Gedye: and that the Secretariat Hiring In-House Legal Council needs to be researched.

[1:27:44] Voice 4: All right.

[1:27:47] Trustee Gedye: So any questions about the motion?

[1:27:53] Trustee Gedye: Any more discussion?

[1:27:54] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:27:59] Trustee Gedye: All those in favor?

[1:28:06] Trustee Gedye: That's Middleton, Peterson, Bernardo, and Patrick, and Gavreau, and Harris.

[1:28:12] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:28:13] Trustee Gedye: All those opposed?

[1:28:16] Trustee Gedye: Hands down, please, those of you.

[1:28:19] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:28:20] Trustee Gedye: All right. All those opposed? Two of us.

[1:28:25] Trustee Gedye: Two of us, yeah.

[1:28:27] Trustee Gedye: All right. So that passes.

[1:28:32] Trustee Gedye: So, Russ, yes, you need to be cloned.

[1:28:39] Trustee Gedye: In terms of, can we help the staff understand that in terms,

[1:28:43] Trustee Gedye: what we've got in the works now is the corporate and strategic planning,

[1:28:50] Trustee Gedye: and that, as Russ pointed out, that is going to be his priority

[1:28:54] Trustee Gedye: and the other involvement of the staff in the next two or three weeks,

[1:28:59] Trustee Gedye: that the request to the province is in its very infant stages

[1:29:05] Trustee Gedye: and we need to start figuring out the parameters of that

[1:29:10] Trustee Gedye: and the topics that we want to discuss.

[1:29:12] Trustee Gedye: The meeting process is underway and we're going to have more on that

[1:29:17] Trustee Gedye: when the council is available.

[1:29:18] Trustee Gedye: available? And can the research into the secretariat then be after whatever is ongoing

[1:29:29] Trustee Gedye: with the next month or so work on strategic and corporate planning? I

[1:29:41] Voice 3: think that given the tenor

[1:29:43] Voice 3: of the discussion that we just had, I think it's pretty clear that we have an ongoing project with

[1:29:49] Voice 3: this corporate planning issue that we want to maintain the momentum on that. And that's obviously

[1:29:54] Voice 3: a priority for the CEO. The other priority, as discussed, is

[1:30:00] Voice 3: we've got to get this response underway.

[1:30:01] Voice 3: And I think if I, you know,

[1:30:05] Voice 3: my sense of it is what the group wants,

[1:30:07] Voice 3: definitely wants staff to make sure those things happen.

[1:30:12] Voice 3: And I think to the extent that staff has the resources,

[1:30:18] Voice 3: any resources available,

[1:30:20] Voice 3: we certainly would want it to make a priority

[1:30:22] Voice 3: to look into the other work

[1:30:25] Voice 3: with respect to the corporate secretary issue.

[1:30:27] Voice 3: And as you mentioned, Chair,

[1:30:28] Voice 3: the meeting process issue is kind of already underway.

[1:30:30] Voice 3: way we're already working on that so um i i would think the priority for the ceo and the other staff

[1:30:37] Voice 3: would be those first two items the corporate planning and the response to the province and

[1:30:42] Voice 3: the secretarial work gets done when it may be done in tandem or after a bulk of the work and

[1:30:49] Voice 3: the other two items get done but i think we have to give staff some leeway here to um prioritize

[1:30:54] Voice 3: its own time uh if we identify those two top items as as the our main priorities right now

[1:31:01] Voice 3: at this moment thanks that

[1:31:08] Trustee Gedye: moves it back into not immediate but important ah ha ha never mind

[1:31:12] Voice 4: that comment yes

[1:31:14] Voice 4: much time right

[1:31:15] Trustee Gedye: yep all right all right agenda 7.2 discussion on trustee

[1:31:25] Trustee Gedye: compensation i

[1:31:28] Voice 3: think we can go briskly here sorry i

[1:31:33] Voice 3: think we can proceed briskly on this point um

[1:31:36] Voice 3: It would be helpful if Director Mobbs could be available

[1:31:41] Voice 3: to answer any questions that come up out of this.

[1:31:46] Voice 3: But sorry, I've jumped in because it's kind of my item,

[1:31:49] Voice 3: so I thought I would just hop in and just try to see

[1:31:51] Voice 3: if we can speed this through.

[1:31:53] Voice 3: Is that okay?

[1:31:54] Trustee Gedye: Sure.

[1:31:56] Trustee Gedye: Now, as far as I understand it, this came up at the last Trust Council.

[1:32:00] Trustee Gedye: It was put into our matrix.

[1:32:04] Trustee Gedye: It went into not immediate but important,

[1:32:06] Trustee Gedye: Mostly because when we started the discussion at the last Governance Committee meeting, we were told that there was a follow-up action plan for the Financial Planning Committee.

[1:32:18] Trustee Gedye: Now, I understand that at the last Financial Planning Committee that you all agreed that it should come to governance.

[1:32:28] Voice 4: No, that

[1:32:28] Voice 3: hasn't happened yet.

[1:32:31] Voice 3: Ah.

[1:32:32] Voice 3: No. Where we're at here is, you know, this thing is on my mind in part because I am chair of FPC.

[1:32:39] Voice 3: And what we have here is some work that I think we need to figure out who ought to be in charge of it.

[1:32:47] Voice 3: And so I've got a question. It's really a question here that needs to be decided.

[1:32:52] Voice 3: but and at the last governance committee meeting you know I got myself confused when

[1:32:58] Voice 3: trustee Peterson had some questions about you know were we reproducing the work that FPC was

[1:33:04] Voice 3: already doing and the answer to that is no last term FPC asked staff to assess the compensation

[1:33:11] Voice 3: policy against the UBCM's council and board remuneration guide and as I understand it

[1:33:18] Voice 3: that's been done uh it reported the staff reported the findings fpc uh fpc back in last term uh moved

[1:33:27] Voice 3: that staff um make the suggested changes put them into a draft amendment policy and bring it back

[1:33:35] Voice 3: to fpc for approval that hasn't happened yet because staff was directed its focus to do other

[1:33:40] Voice 3: things i haven't seen the language yet but i understand from my discussions with director

[1:33:45] Voice 3: your mobs that the work uh in in the sense of bringing policy 7.2.1 in conformity with the

[1:33:53] Voice 3: ubcm approach on compensation uh is uh was in a sense just um value neutral it was it was about

[1:34:03] Voice 3: amending the structure of the policy my understanding is that it doesn't address the

[1:34:08] Voice 3: issue of what was the current base numbers that are in the policy because there are some basic

[1:34:12] Voice 3: numbers that are used to calculate compensation, it doesn't examine the issue whether that's

[1:34:17] Voice 3: appropriate. Instead, and I'm talking about something I haven't read, it proposes amendments

[1:34:23] Voice 3: that I understand that would bring the policy into line with the UBCM best practices,

[1:34:30] Voice 3: one of which is having compensation periodically reviewed by an independent body.

[1:34:36] Voice 8: Trustee Bernardo, can I stop you for a moment, please? Just wanted to let you know that

[1:34:41] Voice 8: But Julia Mobs is now in the meeting.

[1:34:43] Voice 8: Excuse me, in the meeting.

[1:34:45] Voice 3: Thank you for that.

[1:34:46] Voice 3: I'm glad, just so Director Mobs knows why we asked her to appear.

[1:34:51] Voice 3: It's to be available for questions about what the work has been done to date.

[1:34:56] Voice 3: And as I keep introducing this and then maybe hand it over to Director Mobs,

[1:35:02] Voice 3: the point of my original resolution that I had in mind for Governance Committee

[1:35:06] Voice 3: committee was to get the, in a sense, was kind of anticipating FPC's approval of the idea that

[1:35:14] Voice 3: you need to have an independent input here in how these things get decided. The point of the motion

[1:35:20] Voice 3: was to, because it comes from a governance perspective, having an independence guidance

[1:35:26] Voice 3: on trustee compensation certainly is a best practice. And UBCM talks about two different

[1:35:33] Voice 3: ways of doing it you can have community task forces or you could hire an independent consultant

[1:35:40] Voice 3: my suggestion because it's a governance issue was like let's get the independent it is an issue

[1:35:46] Voice 3: that's in the governance review let's get the independent consultant ball rolling by asking

[1:35:50] Voice 3: staff to report back to the governance committee about the potential costs and other details that

[1:35:55] Voice 3: would be involved if we chose if trust council chose rather to hire a suitable expert to review

[1:36:01] Voice 3: view the base numbers it was really about getting relevant information uh in that is necessary for

[1:36:09] Voice 3: the actual nuts and bolts of calculating compensation it was not about starting the

[1:36:12] Voice 3: process of hiring not yet anyhow it was kind of a light touch issue but i'm not sure at this point

[1:36:19] Voice 3: after the last trust council meeting the views expressed by some trustees suggest

[1:36:27] Voice 3: that this is kind of a bigger issue than just you know tweaking at the edges here

[1:36:31] Voice 3: and that simply ensuring independence and having up-to-date base values,

[1:36:36] Voice 3: Governance Committee may have more to say about this

[1:36:38] Voice 3: or ought to have more to say about it than I originally anticipated.

[1:36:43] Voice 3: And what I'm thinking about this is, given what we heard last time,

[1:36:46] Voice 3: it may be time for Trust Council to reconsider the formula

[1:36:50] Voice 3: that links trustee compensation to the population of their respective LTAs.

[1:36:58] Voice 3: and certainly the fact that we still have those amendments that haven't been considered

[1:37:03] Voice 3: by fbc and certainly suggest what we heard last time suggests that we ought to fbc ought to be

[1:37:09] Voice 3: re-examining a policy or somebody ought to be representing our policy pretty quick you know

[1:37:13] Voice 3: we ought to accelerate it ought to stop deferring dealing with it so if rethinking the policy along

[1:37:20] Voice 3: the lines that i talked about which is like reconsidering the formula is what's needed

[1:37:25] Voice 3: it then that would be a significant governance issue that doesn't mean fpc couldn't deal with it

[1:37:32] Voice 3: but uh at a minimum i think governance it's it's appropriate for governance committee to make the

[1:37:41] Voice 3: point that the development implementation of compensation policy should be conducted with

[1:37:47] Voice 3: guidance from an independent source you know objective third party whether it's a consultant

[1:37:53] Voice 3: under a task force okay

[1:37:55] Trustee Gedye: so

[1:37:56] Voice 3: we is this this is all by way of introducing emotion wow all right so uh

[1:38:07] Voice 3: the point here was to have a discussion first of all whether fpc should be asked to hand off or

[1:38:13] Voice 3: or whether it's a governance committee should do the work of thinking through potential policy

[1:38:17] Voice 3: changes and before we get and then then irrespective of how that discussion goes

[1:38:24] Voice 3: I will be making a motion that the Governance Committee request staff to prepare a report to discuss the feasibility of hiring a consultant.

[1:38:33] Voice 3: So I think what we need to do is have that discussion first about whether this whole compensation issue should fall into the hands of the Governance Committee or whether we should keep the policy development in the hands of FPC.

[1:38:46] Trustee Gedye: Okay. Seems to me that there's two parts to it in terms of the mathematics and what the equation is going to be. And if FPC hasn't worked through some of this, I would like to leave it with the FPC.

[1:39:07] Trustee Gedye: I think that one of the recommendations with the UBCM document is that this should be done by the outgoing council.

[1:39:15] Trustee Gedye: So that's the end of our term.

[1:39:16] Trustee Gedye: So that's another year and a half from now.

[1:39:20] Trustee Gedye: So that this is something that that it's almost

[1:39:24] Voice 3: three.

[1:39:26] Trustee Gedye: OK, in terms of hiring a consultant and getting the research done and having a report and having that discussed by council and recommended for the following term.

[1:39:36] Trustee Gedye: I think we've got, you know, less than the three years.

[1:39:41] Trustee Gedye: So if we look at it in terms of that timeframe.

[1:39:45] Trustee Gedye: So I'm going to suggest that regardless of whatever the following motion is in terms of the independent consultant and that there be some help from FPC in terms of whether or not we change the equation.

[1:40:03] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stamford?

[1:40:04] Trustee Gedye: again

[1:40:10] Voice 7: at the i i don't want to belabor this because it's probably being it was discussed

[1:40:15] Voice 7: obviously at trust council but this is a governance issue this is how we uh attract

[1:40:22] Voice 7: trustees our our future trustees it's far more than just finance it's it's what we want as part

[1:40:33] Voice 7: part of our organization um and it you know there it can sit in in many different areas but

[1:40:40] Voice 7: um it is important um and it's going to take more than just um shunting it to the last year or six

[1:40:48] Voice 7: months of our um term um it needs to be approached carefully um with a good formula at the end of

[1:40:59] Voice 7: of this that can be encouraging to others

[1:41:01] Voice 7: to participate in this organization.

[1:41:06] Trustee Gedye: Has everybody had a chance to read the UBCM document?

[1:41:10] Trustee Gedye: The introduction to that is all of these really good

[1:41:14] Trustee Gedye: arguments in terms of why it's important.

[1:41:18] Trustee Gedye: Thank you, chair.

[1:41:23] Voice 11: I agree that this, you know, and it's reflected

[1:41:26] Voice 11: in its position on the matrix.

[1:41:28] Voice 11: It's not an immediate priority.

[1:41:31] Voice 11: It is important for a number of reasons.

[1:41:34] Voice 11: A number of those stand out in the UBCM report.

[1:41:39] Voice 11: One of them is that insufficient remuneration may render elected office off-limits to a variety of prospective candidates.

[1:41:49] Voice 11: And from my point of view, that's really about diversity on trust counsel. And in a sense, it actually ties into representation. Because when you need to essentially be financially well off enough to be able to afford the time to be a trustee, it limits participation.

[1:42:18] Voice 11: participation and that that is one of my major concerns i'm glad to see this here the ubcm report

[1:42:23] Voice 11: um makes a number of points i've made a bunch of notes i won't go into them all today because i

[1:42:29] Voice 11: i do agree this is not um an urgent thing however i would suggest we want probably about a year and

[1:42:36] Voice 11: a half um before the end of the term uh to to for the consultant to do the work for trust council

[1:42:44] Voice 11: to make considerations of recommendations.

[1:42:46] Voice 11: I have a number of other questions

[1:42:48] Voice 11: about the existing policy,

[1:42:51] Voice 11: most specifically when the amounts listed

[1:42:59] Voice 11: in the base amounts, the trust council amounts,

[1:43:02] Voice 11: the population amounts, the folio amounts,

[1:43:04] Voice 11: when those were last updated,

[1:43:06] Voice 11: I think that'd be helpful information.

[1:43:09] Voice 11: But I also recognize that it's not urgent

[1:43:12] Voice 11: and we do have a lot of other urgent work to do.

[1:43:16] Trustee Gedye: trustee bernardo yes

[1:43:18] Voice 3: um the point that you know the points that trustee peterson entered into are

[1:43:24] Voice 3: really the crux of the matter here and um although the ubcm recommendations are that the outgoing

[1:43:29] Voice 3: body should deal with the thing yeah i can see the frankly political utility of that

[1:43:36] Voice 3: because it it you know it makes it an election issue if it needs to be and the electorate can

[1:43:43] Voice 3: deal with it but uh the point that trustee peterson was making is essentially the same

[1:43:48] Voice 3: point that was made by a number of trustees at last last trust council uh i'm not sure

[1:43:56] Voice 3: it can wait till the end of the term uh it's it seems to be a pressing issue uh for some

[1:44:04] Voice 3: for for some trustees uh so that's a consideration uh you know but be that as it may uh that's not

[1:44:13] Voice 3: not really that that's not really the question today and the details of you know the nuts and

[1:44:19] Voice 3: bolts and the policy and that kind of stuff that's that's also not for today really there's only two

[1:44:23] Voice 3: questions today one is do we want this committee to pick up this work from an FPC and second

[1:44:35] Voice 3: regardless of how we decide that I would like us to to move that we get staff we request staff to

[1:44:42] Voice 3: prepare a report on the feasibility and that's all it is of hiring the consultant so the first

[1:44:48] Voice 3: question i i would hope we could focus this discussion on this narrow question of uh

[1:44:54] Voice 3: should a general governance committee pick up the slack here from fpc and take over this job

[1:44:59] Voice 3: christy

[1:45:04] Trustee Gedye: bennleton thank

[1:45:07] Trustee Middleton: you chair and thank you for the work i think it's excellent

[1:45:09] Trustee Middleton: work um and i i agree i believe that the governance committee should take over this work

[1:45:17] Trustee Middleton: from FPC. You will have heard the councillors from San Juan County talk about when their number was

[1:45:26] Trustee Middleton: reduced, what it did was it permitted the budget to then provide a full-time income to the remaining

[1:45:31] Trustee Middleton: councillors and what a major difference that made to their governance. I'm not suggesting that,

[1:45:37] Trustee Middleton: but I mean I bring it up to say that remuneration of the elected representatives is key in the type

[1:45:45] Trustee Middleton: and quality of governance that one probably would enjoy as a corporate organization.

[1:45:54] Trustee Middleton: So I definitely think it needs looking at.

[1:45:57] Trustee Middleton: And I think, echoing Trustee Stamford, and I think Trustee Bernardo as well, is saying

[1:46:02] Trustee Middleton: the same thing, that the Governance Committee should take this work on.

[1:46:05] Trustee Middleton: And I do agree to find some way of sort of like work programming it in the immediate

[1:46:12] Trustee Middleton: immediate future and let its kind of work evolve rather than just park it to the end

[1:46:17] Trustee Middleton: of the term.

[1:46:18] Trustee Middleton: So thank you.

[1:46:19] Trustee Middleton: And thanks for doing the work.

[1:46:20] Trustee Middleton: I appreciate it.

[1:46:23] Voice 9: Trustee Patrick.

[1:46:25] Voice 9: I will pick up on Lee Middleton's suggestion there.

[1:46:27] Voice 9: I think it is linked to the number of trustees that are here.

[1:46:31] Voice 9: And it has to do with the structure and the question to the province and the representation.

[1:46:35] Voice 9: What we saw from San Juan and the difference it makes by people being paid full-time to

[1:46:40] Voice 9: do a full-time job, it's amazing.

[1:46:43] Voice 9: And so it all gets related very quickly.

[1:46:47] Voice 9: Trustee Peters?

[1:46:51] Voice 11: Yeah, I just want to say that I do think this is appropriate for the Governance Committee.

[1:46:56] Voice 11: And just to remove any misunderstanding, I'm not suggesting that we shut this off indefinitely.

[1:47:05] Voice 11: I'm just suggesting that this committee has some other work that is perhaps more urgent.

[1:47:11] Voice 11: That being said, I'm in no way opposed to the potential motion to look at hiring a consultant in the short term.

[1:47:25] Voice 11: I think, in fact, that would be a way to get the ball rolling and provide some information back to this committee when we have potentially some more time and can make it a top priority.

[1:47:38] Voice 11: One

[1:47:40] Trustee Gedye: of the things that I noticed in the, I guess it was the staff report, is that a lot of the calculation of the base rate is comparisons with other communities.

[1:47:57] Trustee Gedye: And I think that one of the things we don't have is a decent, and there may be a wide range of differences between trustees, but some sort of an outline, a job description in the hours that are required.

[1:48:10] Trustee Gedye: for this job so that when we're making comparisons to other communities

[1:48:14] Trustee Gedye: and their base rate, you know, not just population,

[1:48:18] Trustee Gedye: but a lot of the responsibilities.

[1:48:20] Trustee Gedye: So I think that's research that could relatively easily be done

[1:48:25] Trustee Gedye: that would be helpful if we were to hire a consultant

[1:48:28] Trustee Gedye: to be able to explain the range and the breadth of the work

[1:48:35] Trustee Gedye: that the trustees do.

[1:48:37] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, Joe, your hand's up.

[1:48:40] Voice 3: Yes, I'm mindful of the time here and, you know, any of the topics that we have, we could spend forever sort of examining them.

[1:48:49] Voice 3: But unless anybody, unless people violently disagree, from what I've heard, I think the time might be right to make a motion regarding transferring this work to Governance Committee.

[1:49:02] Voice 3: And I'm pausing to give people who are hysterically opposed to that an opportunity to tell me to back off.

[1:49:08] Voice 3: Can

[1:49:09] Trustee Gedye: we hear from Director Mobs first in terms of any input that she might have in terms of helping this, helping us decide? You're mute. Do we still have the connection?

[1:49:42] Voice 8: She's still on. I'm wondering.

[1:49:45] Voice 8: There we are.

[1:49:45] Voice 8: Can

[1:49:46] Voice 1: you, you can hear me now?

[1:49:49] Voice 1: Yeah.

[1:49:51] Voice 1: Great.

[1:49:51] Voice 1: I was showing unmuted at my end, so I'm not sure what was going on there.

[1:49:54] Voice 1: Happy to contribute to the conversation.

[1:49:56] Voice 1: From my perspective, the committee that oversees this work, you know, it won't make any difference

[1:50:03] Voice 1: to the work that I do.

[1:50:05] Voice 1: It's going to be the same work regardless.

[1:50:06] Voice 1: So I'd leave that up to the committee to decide.

[1:50:08] Voice 1: In terms of the work that's already been completed in looking at our existing policy against

[1:50:13] Voice 1: against UBCM's guide. One of the things that we see in there around timing is actually that any

[1:50:18] Voice 1: results of review would be presented to the outgoing council at least one year before the

[1:50:24] Voice 1: next election. So I think getting started on this work would make some sense. The work that staff

[1:50:30] Voice 1: have completed and will wrap up or have started and will wrap up is comparing our existing sort

[1:50:37] Voice 1: of policy structure to the UBCM guide. It's not looking at remuneration values in and of

[1:50:44] Voice 1: themselves. So there's no work that's been done to compare to other jurisdictions that are similar

[1:50:48] Voice 1: to the Islands Trust. Historically, that type of benchmarking work and comparative work has been

[1:50:53] Voice 1: done by an external consultant. So the last time we hired an external consultant to do that work

[1:50:57] Voice 1: was 2010. And that is the type of work that they did. One of the recommendations that staff have

[1:51:04] Voice 1: of put forward from the review that's been done already is to hire an independent external

[1:51:10] Voice 1: consultant to undertake that work again and then also to build into the trustee remuneration policy

[1:51:17] Voice 1: that this be a standing item that happen at regular intervals right now the policy doesn't

[1:51:21] Voice 1: include that so if we were to make that motion now I think that work can happen in tandem with

[1:51:27] Voice 1: the work that staff are continuing to move forward and recommendations from the consultant as well as

[1:51:32] Voice 1: recommendations from staff can come forward together at one time to create a fully amended

[1:51:36] Voice 1: policy uh that's probably all i need to contribute but i'm happy to respond to questions thank you

[1:51:45] Trustee Gedye: that's good all right any questions for director mobs uh do we have a formal motion on the floor

[1:51:58] Trustee Gedye: uh

[1:51:59] Voice 3: we will as soon as i make it i move that uh governance committee request

[1:52:05] Voice 3: request the Financial Planning Committee to transfer its policy, its work on Policy 7.2.1

[1:52:15] Voice 3: to Governance Committee.

[1:52:22] Trustee Gedye: Is there a seconder? Trustee Stamford, is that your hand up for

[1:52:28] Trustee Gedye: seconding?

[1:52:28] Voice 7: Yes, it is. I promise I won't niggle with it this time.

[1:52:34] Trustee Gedye: All right. Any more discussion?

[1:52:39] Trustee Gedye: All right. Let's call a vote. All those in favor?

[1:52:47] Voice 12: Chair Geddy, you're on mute.

[1:52:50] Trustee Gedye: All right. All those in favor?

[1:52:56] Voice 4: Minority.

[1:52:56] Voice 4: Okay. I'm up.

[1:53:01] Trustee Gedye: And drop your hands, lower the hands, and all those opposed.

[1:53:06] Trustee Gedye: All right. So, Trustee Harris, are you abstaining?

[1:53:19] Voice 13: I voted in favor.

[1:53:20] Trustee Gedye: Oh, sorry. Okay. Didn't see your hand up. Thank you. All right. I think that's unanimous then.

[1:53:25] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:53:25] Voice 3: All

[1:53:26] Trustee Gedye: right.

[1:53:27] Trustee Gedye: And

[1:53:27] Voice 3: then the follow-up motion here, which is that the Governance Committee request staff to prepare a report that discusses the potential cost and other elements involved in engaging a qualified independent consultant to review Policy 7.2.1 and the trustee remuneration values set out in the policy.

[1:53:51] Voice 3: I probably have to go slower, don't I?

[1:53:55] Voice 8: Yes.

[1:53:56] Voice 3: Okay.

[1:53:57] Voice 8: Yes, please.

[1:53:58] Voice 8: Or you could send it to me via my email, or we could go together.

[1:54:03] Voice 8: I'm happy to do whatever.

[1:54:04] Voice 3: Let's just get this over with.

[1:54:06] Voice 3: The Governance Committee requested after her report that discusses the potential cost and other elements involved in engaging a qualified independent consultant to review Policy 7.2.1

[1:54:54] Voice 3: and the trustee remuneration values

[1:55:03] Voice 3: set out in the policy, period.

[1:55:23] Trustee Gedye: So that's adding in the consultant review of the policy.

[1:55:26] Trustee Gedye: Yeah.

[1:55:27] Voice 4: Okay.

[1:55:30] Trustee Gedye: David Marler.

[1:55:31] Voice 12: Yeah, sorry, just process.

[1:55:35] Voice 12: Just thinking along the lines that the FPC

[1:55:38] Voice 12: would still need to vote to transfer this over.

[1:55:42] Voice 12: so do you want to make this subject to that happening so no

[1:55:47] Voice 3: no i can explain that mr marler

[1:55:50] Voice 3: that um irrespective of whether or not governance committee picks up this work it is definitely a

[1:55:57] Voice 3: governance issue uh that we have an independent consultant involved here and uh i think

[1:56:05] Voice 3: irrespective of who does the work it's appropriate for us as a committee to say okay let's just get

[1:56:09] Voice 3: this started and and let's remember this is not about engaging the qualified consultants

[1:56:14] Voice 3: it's about just let's get the ball started and getting a quote figuring out what's involved

[1:56:20] Voice 3: and then whichever committee ultimately does do the work will will at least have that information

[1:56:24] Voice 3: to start with before it engages uh this is kind of a housekeeping thing just to give director mobs

[1:56:31] Voice 3: the room to sort of uh scout out the territory so to speak and then report back to whichever

[1:56:36] Voice 3: committee ultimately does this and I'm reasonably confident that FBC which I

[1:56:41] Voice 3: chair will be delighted to lob this work in a different direction

[1:56:45] Voice 4: so

[1:56:51] Voice 3: do I have a

[1:56:53] Voice 3: seconder for the motion or is that or we're not allowed to say that

[1:56:55] Voice 3: Percy

[1:57:00] Voice 13: Harris will second the motion all

[1:57:05] Trustee Gedye: right and any more discussion all right

[1:57:13] Trustee Gedye: let's call the vote all those in favor that looks unanimous all right any

[1:57:24] Trustee Gedye: Any opposed?

[1:57:25] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:57:36] Trustee Gedye: And we've got a comment.

[1:57:38] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:57:47] Trustee Gedye: So Trustee Patrick has to leave the meeting, and she's left a comment in the webinar chat with respect to the governance review and the limitations on the original terms of reference.

[1:58:04] Voice 6: Madam Chair?

[1:58:05] Voice 6: Yep.

[1:58:05] Voice 6: May I be excused for just a couple of minutes to get a glass of water?

[1:58:10] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[1:58:11] Trustee Gedye: Why don't we?

[1:58:11] Trustee Gedye: It's 11 o'clock and we're about to start a new business item.

[1:58:15] Trustee Gedye: Why don't we all take a break and come back?

[1:58:19] Trustee Gedye: I've got five minutes to 11.

[1:58:21] Trustee Gedye: Come back at maybe, what, 10 after?

[1:58:27] Voice 4: Sounds good.

[1:58:28] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[1:58:29] Trustee Gedye: Take a break.

[1:58:30] Trustee Gedye: Thanks.

[2:08:48] Voice 6: madam chair you did note that um you had a one o'clock do you want to

[2:08:53] Voice 6: um speak with the group

[2:08:54] Trustee Gedye: the first thing and

[2:08:58] Voice 6: reschedule some timing here or just contextualize the time a bit perhaps

[2:09:11] Trustee Gedye: how's it going lisa just

[2:09:16] Voice 8: a note to all that we are still recording okay oh hi lisa hi

[2:09:24] Voice 8: good to see how are you yeah good

[2:09:29] Voice 6: to see you

[2:09:31] Voice 5: Okay,

[2:10:36] Trustee Gedye: I have 11.10 on my clock, so I'm going to call the meeting back to order.

[2:10:44] Trustee Gedye: What I forgot to do at the very beginning, and I should wait for everybody to show up,

[2:10:49] Trustee Gedye: but this is the first meeting for Lisa Gavreau and our new staff person, Alexandra.

[2:11:00] Trustee Gedye: Gryphonotis? Trophonitis?

[2:11:02] Trustee Gedye: Tryphonitis.

[2:11:04] Trustee Gedye: Tryphonitis, thank you.

[2:11:06] Trustee Gedye: it might take a few rounds before i get that right but so please welcome and um it's thanks

[2:11:14] Trustee Gedye: everybody yeah

[2:11:15] Voice 7: can i just say welcome back nice to have you nice to see your face again alexander

[2:11:23] Voice 7: thank

[2:11:24] Voice 8: you trustee stanford it's great to be back and helping out in this role for

[2:11:27] Voice 8: a bit while laurie is away where

[2:11:31] Trustee Gedye: were you before what's this back stuff i

[2:11:35] Voice 8: used to work for the

[2:11:36] Voice 8: Islands Trust Conservancy as the acting administrative assistant when Coraline was

[2:11:42] Voice 8: on leave for a few years between 2018 and 2020.

[2:11:45] Trustee Gedye: Oh neat excellent all right so the other thing was

[2:11:53] Trustee Gedye: at the beginning of our agenda it says that the meeting time is from 9 a.m till 1 p.m so I'm going

[2:12:01] Trustee Gedye: going to ask for the committee's indulgence that um i had scheduled this for a three-hour meeting

[2:12:07] Trustee Gedye: until 12 and i've got other meetings this afternoon with bowen council and my car is

[2:12:13] Trustee Gedye: frozen solid and i need to heat it up before i can move away from the house so um i'm not sure

[2:12:20] Trustee Gedye: that we need that amount of time we've got um it's 11 10 now if we schedule um to finish by 12

[2:12:26] Trustee Gedye: I think we might be able to do it.

[2:12:29] Trustee Gedye: Would that be a problem for people?

[2:12:33] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[2:12:34] Trustee Gedye: So let's aim for 12.

[2:12:37] Trustee Gedye: What's left on our business work program items,

[2:12:40] Trustee Gedye: the next one is the request for governance review to the province,

[2:12:44] Trustee Gedye: Trust Council Review of 2022 Governance Report.

[2:12:47] Trustee Gedye: So we've talked about this to some extent with respect to the work plan

[2:12:56] Trustee Gedye: or the matrix, rather.

[2:12:58] Trustee Gedye: so is there anything that um we need to add um trustee stamford i think it was um you had some

[2:13:06] Trustee Gedye: comments before that you wanted to wait on was that you or was that trustee patrick i believe

[2:13:18] Voice 3: that was trustee patrick yeah

[2:13:20] Trustee Gedye: all right so she's

[2:13:22] Trustee Gedye: left a message in chat um she's gonna have to

[2:13:26] Trustee Gedye: leave the meeting i have one comment on the staff report associated with governance review

[2:13:30] Trustee Gedye: conversation. Governance review terms of reference specifically said that the legislative change

[2:13:34] Trustee Gedye: was not part of the review. The governance review is internal. The request for provincial review is

[2:13:41] Trustee Gedye: external and related to legislative controls. And that she raised that point earlier in the

[2:13:48] Trustee Gedye: meeting. So keep that in mind. Trustee Peterson.

[2:13:53] Voice 11: Yeah, I wonder if we can hear from the CAO

[2:13:56] Voice 11: briefly um and my only uh consideration is timing in

[2:14:02] Trustee Gedye: terms of timing for in

[2:14:05] Voice 11: terms of my concern

[2:14:07] Voice 11: about uh giving this um the the topic at trust council sufficient time and and i'm i'm just a

[2:14:15] Voice 11: little uncomfortable trying to jam it into march uh trust council meeting fair

[2:14:19] Trustee Gedye: enough i think the

[2:14:20] Trustee Gedye: march was a really vague there were lots of question marks after it so um russ do you want

[2:14:26] Trustee Gedye: respond to that a more realistic timeline well

[2:14:29] Voice 6: certainly following the direction of committee um

[2:14:33] Voice 6: you know i just went back and i called your conversations from your last meeting

[2:14:37] Voice 6: um subsequent to trust council asking you to to sort of take on the um spearheading the um

[2:14:45] Voice 6: let's say um a reconsideration renewal of the of the request to the province and the conversation

[2:14:51] Voice 6: you had at your last meeting was wide-ranging, but it also got to, well, what do we collectively

[2:14:57] Voice 6: think about the actual governance review document itself, and how do we engage trustees? It's been

[2:15:03] Voice 6: pointed out earlier in this conversation, earlier today in this meeting, rather, that trustees

[2:15:08] Voice 6: really haven't sat in the round, particularly this group of trustees, and considered the

[2:15:13] Voice 6: recommendations from the governance review, and that that process would inform going forward to

[2:15:21] Voice 6: any request to the province I'm not to say that that needs to be the case I just understood that

[2:15:29] Voice 6: from your conversations and then necessarily as part of my job I go okay well how would we do that

[2:15:34] Voice 6: and when would we do that and what questions would we ask of trustees as they consider it

[2:15:39] Voice 6: what would be the right process by which they would undertake those that question how would

[2:15:45] Voice 6: Would we have the conversation?

[2:15:47] Voice 6: How would, this is, you know, unlike other sessions, this is a, you know, sort of a governance type discussion that you'd want to have.

[2:15:56] Voice 6: We want to put you in a good position to have that back and forth.

[2:16:01] Voice 6: Certainly staff want to be assistive, but, you know, at a certain point we want to go, when do you want that information?

[2:16:07] Voice 6: When do you want that?

[2:16:07] Voice 6: Do you still believe that that is the right course of action?

[2:16:10] Voice 6: and a corollary to that was that the staff provide some reporting that would assist trustees

[2:16:16] Voice 6: in their thinking so that was the reasoning behind the briefing it's to sort of get it in

[2:16:19] Voice 6: front of you and go is this the time to start getting specific and what would be a good way

[2:16:26] Voice 6: to do that and the March meeting is the next one up so I sort of went with that but I haven't had

[2:16:35] Voice 6: specific direction i don't think for that um it's an option for you if not it would be june

[2:16:43] Voice 6: i guess or some special meeting and if you do have a special meeting that would probably be

[2:16:49] Voice 6: electronic and then you'd have to ask yourselves i think is the type of topic that isn't like

[2:16:53] Voice 6: that lends itself to having a an electronic discussion or not i would leave that to you

[2:16:59] Voice 6: for your thinking anyway i just uh um offer this briefing and ask the these are some sort of key

[2:17:06] Voice 6: questions that occurred to me um as you can see at the bottom of page 97 um they might be uh

[2:17:13] Voice 6: topical for you or you might want to have other ones um that you develop but um those just seem

[2:17:18] Voice 6: like some of the core questions you want to determine okay

[2:17:24] Trustee Gedye: alexander can you move that up a

[2:17:27] Trustee Gedye: bit there we go okay so just a few lines down so we get those five questions there we go oh where

[2:17:38] Trustee Gedye: to go okay can you see

[2:17:43] Voice 4: it here yeah yeah

[2:17:45] Trustee Gedye: all

[2:17:46] Voice 4: right joe yeah um

[2:17:50] Voice 3: i think um christy patrick in her

[2:17:55] Voice 3: comment and it's really unfortunate she had to leave but i think in her comment uh uh is drawing

[2:18:00] Voice 3: an important distinction that we have to manage um what i understand her to be saying is that um

[2:18:05] Voice 3: The staff's analysis of the governance report, which we need, should be limited to discussing the internal changes the report recommends, because that, in fact, was the mandate of the review and, in fact, what the report is concerned with.

[2:18:23] Voice 3: whereas the communication to the province is obviously related to that because those internal

[2:18:30] Voice 3: problems that we're trying to address may have solutions outside of our internal mechanisms

[2:18:38] Voice 3: and that's in part one of the reasons why we're doing this response but that i understand would

[2:18:46] Voice 3: be saying that that whole engagement with these legislative questions and the kind of grand high

[2:18:52] Voice 3: policy that the need uh for and the scope of any request to the province uh is really a question

[2:19:01] Voice 3: for the trustees to formulate and decide uh i think she's right to draw that distinction with

[2:19:08] Voice 3: respect to the report uh to the narrow question of what would staff's analysis be concerned with

[2:19:15] Voice 3: then it follows that if the report is concerned with internal matters staff's analysis should

[2:19:21] Voice 3: to be limited to that and not go wandering off

[2:19:22] Voice 3: and talking about legislation.

[2:19:25] Voice 3: And I think I also agree that it's for trustees

[2:19:27] Voice 3: to take the lead on identifying any need

[2:19:29] Voice 3: for provincial intervention.

[2:19:31] Voice 3: But once we've done that, I think, you know,

[2:19:35] Voice 3: we will definitely need staff's input

[2:19:37] Voice 3: on the potential ramifications

[2:19:41] Voice 3: of whatever legislative changes we come up with

[2:19:44] Voice 3: or we dream up or we sort of, you know,

[2:19:46] Voice 3: in our imagination think will make things work better.

[2:19:49] Voice 3: We do need to have that dialogue with staff.

[2:19:51] Voice 3: So I do agree with Trustee Patrick. It's for the trustees to take the lead. But we can't do this in isolation. And what I'm getting at here is I'm trying to address that number one on the key questions. What's the best means of engaging the trustees in a review of the governance report?

[2:20:07] Voice 3: report well well yeah if i can

[2:20:11] Trustee Gedye: interrupt pardon yeah okay um i think the the first question that

[2:20:17] Trustee Gedye: we have to figure out is what's the preferred outcome and what is being asked of the trustees

[2:20:22] Trustee Gedye: so three and four are similar and you know why are we doing this so we haven't had

[2:20:30] Trustee Gedye: this is a different council than the one that was involved in the report and we haven't had

[2:20:35] Trustee Gedye: that kind of a conversation but um you know what are we what are what is this going to help us with

[2:20:43] Trustee Gedye: where are we going with this well

[2:20:47] Voice 3: it goes back to you know that the original uh reason for asking

[2:20:53] Voice 3: for the province to intervene that there uh there is a concern out there that has not been

[2:20:59] Voice 3: filled out that has not been made specific and granular uh there's a concern amongst a lot of

[2:21:06] Voice 3: trustees which is why the response was delegated to the governance committee uh that there needs

[2:21:12] Voice 3: to be an examination of the legislative structure what that actually involves we don't know yet what

[2:21:21] Voice 3: we're dealing with is this sort of yet to be defined discontent with the legislative structure

[2:21:27] Voice 3: and we need to do the work of debating and try to puzzle that out amongst ourselves as trustees

[2:21:31] Voice 3: fees so where i was going up with this is the staff's analysis and discussion the governance

[2:21:38] Voice 3: review is one thing that is important and needs to happen and it's definitely relevant to the

[2:21:44] Voice 3: provincial outreach but the content of the outreach is something other than that it's really going to

[2:21:51] Voice 3: be focused on a question necessarily like why are we talking to the province because we're asking

[2:21:55] Voice 3: for intervention if we're not asking anything from them why are we writing a letter yeah we want some

[2:22:00] Voice 3: kind of intervention there seems to be this moving consensus in that direction but what

[2:22:06] Voice 3: is the content of it we won't get a decision about whether we even send a letter until we

[2:22:11] Voice 3: have some kind of content to propose and i'm recapitulating what i said before which i think

[2:22:17] Voice 3: it's incumbent on us as a governance committee to start the ball rolling on the legislative side of

[2:22:22] Voice 3: things and that that doesn't wait and conceptually it need not it ought not to wait until staff has

[2:22:31] Voice 3: analyzed the governance report and the governance report has been discussed by trust council and all

[2:22:36] Voice 3: that that will happen in due course but our work of developing legislative ideas and just hashing

[2:22:44] Voice 3: out those different concepts i mean that's how we help our colleagues is by going doing that and

[2:22:49] Voice 3: And then, you know, sometime in and around, you know, either before or after, it doesn't make any difference.

[2:22:54] Voice 3: The staff analysis, the governance report comes up.

[2:22:57] Voice 3: We have our own different proposal that we bring forward to talk about legislative changes.

[2:23:04] Voice 3: So I'm going in the direction of thinking that perhaps we ought to be striking a subgroup to start developing some concepts, you know, developing this white paper of what would be in the response to the province.

[2:23:16] Voice 3: Thank you.

[2:23:17] Voice 3: and

[2:23:20] Trustee Gedye: i think that that's a larger group also um trustee peterson uh

[2:23:28] Voice 11: thank you chair i think

[2:23:29] Voice 11: there's really from my perspective there's two major components there is the the request uh

[2:23:36] Voice 11: from the to the province around the legislative um changes and then there's the things that um

[2:23:45] Voice 11: we can do uh internally in terms of with regard to the recommendations in the report

[2:23:52] Voice 11: Again, we haven't had that Trust Council session to delve into the recommendations.

[2:24:05] Voice 11: This committee, of course, early on, we reviewed the report.

[2:24:12] Voice 11: Most of us put together some notes, and that was all shared amongst us, and I think that's important.

[2:24:21] Voice 11: and i think that's um one of the steps that i would recommend that we request um the trust

[2:24:28] Voice 11: council trustees to do in a broader sense um what are those recommendations uh what of the internal

[2:24:37] Voice 11: recommendations should be pursued and um and then in terms of legislative ones what are those

[2:24:44] Voice 11: recommendations should be pursued in a request of the province and i think you know it may be

[2:24:51] Voice 11: be helpful to sort of separate them out into what's internal and what's uh what's uh the

[2:24:58] Voice 11: province that might be one way of structuring the discussion i absolutely think that trust

[2:25:05] Voice 11: council session should be in in person um i do think having the staff report available for that

[2:25:14] Voice 11: would be very useful um and i'll leave it at that for now i've made a number of notes but uh i don't

[2:25:23] Voice 11: I want to hog all the airtime here.

[2:25:25] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton.

[2:25:30] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair.

[2:25:31] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, echoing the previous speakers,

[2:25:33] Trustee Middleton: I think the governance report was well underway

[2:25:38] Trustee Middleton: and had been received sometime before there was a request

[2:25:43] Trustee Middleton: from kind of a cross group of trustees.

[2:25:48] Trustee Middleton: Actually, my colleague here, Trustee Brent,

[2:25:50] Trustee Middleton: and one of the trustees,

[2:25:54] Trustee Middleton: I'm drawing a blank on his name right now, from Gabriel,

[2:25:57] Trustee Middleton: but it was quite a separate initiative from the governance review to make Scott yeah right exactly

[2:26:03] Trustee Middleton: thank you yeah and um you know it has its own merits or it doesn't but I think what we are

[2:26:12] Trustee Middleton: looking at with the idea of reviewing the governance report is do we understand it at this

[2:26:20] Trustee Middleton: juncture as a new council if we don't understand it what information further do we need to

[2:26:26] Trustee Middleton: understand it and at that point do we agree or do we not agree um i know of the report what parts

[2:26:33] Trustee Middleton: do we agree with what parts do we not and it's sort of like um you know what i'm hearing from

[2:26:38] Trustee Middleton: some of the participants around the governance committee and and and staff trying to facilitate

[2:26:43] Trustee Middleton: this is where is this council at in terms of their motivation to act on the recommendations

[2:26:51] Trustee Middleton: recommendations in that report. It can't be assumed that all 15 recommendations will just be

[2:26:59] Trustee Middleton: accepted, and that's our drive and our motivation. So I think what the CEO is asking is,

[2:27:04] Trustee Middleton: what session, how would the session look to get us to that point? And I, obviously,

[2:27:14] Trustee Middleton: we've asked staff to report on the recommendations. One other item, we could ask the consultants to

[2:27:19] Trustee Middleton: come and speak to their recommendations as well if they're i think um they uh i know marienta

[2:27:25] Trustee Middleton: flumian is still uh contracted by the squamish nation and the solitude to governance work half

[2:27:32] Trustee Middleton: of the month um um on the west coast here so presumably would be available and i think that's

[2:27:40] Trustee Middleton: it is we need to come with trustees it's like where do you stand on what you are motivated

[2:27:45] Trustee Middleton: to move forward on that would allow us as the governance committee to be much more efficient

[2:27:51] Trustee Middleton: and then to trustee bernardo's point what's kind of left on the table or what's not answered okay

[2:27:56] Trustee Middleton: well maybe that goes to the province or maybe that informs the letters to the province but

[2:28:01] Trustee Middleton: i just wanted to characterize that they were they were conceived as two very different things

[2:28:05] Trustee Middleton: the governance review was was conceived to say let us see what we can do with our own house

[2:28:12] Trustee Middleton: before we go out to the province and start requesting what we know is a much more a much

[2:28:19] Trustee Middleton: bigger ask which is the um legislative review so i you know i know i've not directly answered a

[2:28:25] Trustee Middleton: bunch of those questions but obviously we've heard an in-person session a review of the

[2:28:33] Trustee Middleton: recommendations question and answer to allow trustees to understand and then basically a

[2:28:38] Trustee Middleton: gauge of what does this council want to proceed with in terms of those recommendations

[2:28:43] Trustee Middleton: recommendations thank you sorry that took longer than it probably should

[2:28:46] Trustee Gedye: trustee stamford yeah in

[2:28:50] Voice 7: terms of process um you know definitely how trustee middleton describes it as um you know

[2:29:00] Voice 7: how does this uh trust council view this and do they agree which partially agree but i think a

[2:29:07] Voice 7: really important part is somehow getting all the trustees to look at the recording of the March

[2:29:17] Voice 7: Trust Council meeting that this report was presented to the old council, because what's

[2:29:25] Voice 7: written in the report and how it's described in the verbal presentation is quite different

[2:29:32] Voice 7: and much more nuanced and and that is something that I wanted to really be able to follow through

[2:29:39] Voice 7: with with this new council is do you agree with the conclusions which other groups external groups

[2:29:48] Voice 7: are using to push certain agendas whereas if you look at the march viewing of this it's it's a

[2:29:58] Voice 7: quite a different

[2:30:00] Voice 7: report when you hear the verbal report so that would be one way of of starting this

[2:30:06] Voice 7: is to get people to look at that recording um of the meeting okay

[2:30:15] Trustee Gedye: so we have we've got that march

[2:30:17] Trustee Gedye: i don't know where that recording is but let's assume that we can find it and make it available

[2:30:21] Trustee Gedye: then um we have the homework that this committee did at the very beginning of our process

[2:30:27] Trustee Gedye: My impression was that all of this work was delegated to this committee and that we're reopening potentially a big debate that, you know, there was a picture in time that the consultants did for the previous council.

[2:30:49] Trustee Gedye: And, you know, it was during COVID and all the rest of it.

[2:30:52] Trustee Gedye: So that things may have changed fairly drastically, both in terms of people on the council and the conditions of work.

[2:30:58] Trustee Gedye: But if let's assume that we value the input from all of the other trustees, then how do we get them into a situation where a position where they understand the contents of the report and we're able to debate and discuss the nuances?

[2:31:19] Trustee Gedye: And then I don't think we're going to be ready for any of that by March.

[2:31:22] Trustee Gedye: So that and that's a given in terms of the other matters that are the budget and everything else that's going to be on the March report.

[2:31:29] Trustee Gedye: So we can figure out a timeline. So what information should be provided in advance?

[2:31:36] Trustee Gedye: What homework should they undertake? And then the other questions as well.

[2:31:43] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, Trustee Middleton, shorter this time, please.

[2:31:46] Trustee Gedye: please.

[2:31:49] Trustee Middleton: Well, I can keep it very short. I forgot to take my hand down. Thank you.

[2:31:53] Trustee Gedye: There you go. That's nice. Trustee Bernardo.

[2:32:02] Voice 3: Thank you. I think we're actually, you know,

[2:32:07] Voice 3: not reopening a debate here. We're actually talking about the fact that it actually was

[2:32:13] Voice 3: never properly opened. It has never properly happened. And that's why we need to have the

[2:32:18] Voice 3: discussion now. In that respect, I think Trustee Peterson makes a good point referring to the work

[2:32:23] Voice 3: we did at the outset in terms of looking at the governance review and trying to figure out you

[2:32:28] Voice 3: know what we're all about here on this committee uh you know we're trying to figure all that out we

[2:32:33] Voice 3: we individually all went through the report to try to figure out what it says in order to determine

[2:32:37] Voice 3: how seriously we should take its recommendations what we really didn't do as a committee

[2:32:44] Voice 3: is have any kind of extended debate uh about in which we engage in a critical analysis of the

[2:32:52] Voice 3: report you know sifting through kind of basically the winners and the losers and the recommendations

[2:32:56] Voice 3: we haven't really done that except implicitly in how we've allocated the different recommendations

[2:33:02] Voice 3: in our priority matrix classifications you know you know the less plausible or less persuasive

[2:33:08] Voice 3: recommendations you know they're kind of you know they're bringing up the rear and but you know

[2:33:16] Voice 3: it does become more efficient if we actually do engage in that critical analysis and it's

[2:33:21] Voice 3: it's clarifying because it helps us. We need to do that in order to get a grasp on the larger

[2:33:26] Voice 3: picture of how do these various problems arise. We can't identify the true structural problems

[2:33:34] Voice 3: unless we're satisfied that we understand and accept the analysis, the diagnosis of the experts

[2:33:41] Voice 3: as to what the symptoms are. We have to do as trustees, we have to do that work and it is

[2:33:46] Voice 3: overdue and i think it you know to go back to trustee peterson's point it might well be helpful

[2:33:51] Voice 3: to trust council uh if we as a committee you know go back to those original memos and notes that we

[2:34:00] Voice 3: put together that as discussion items and try to develop a collective position paper on how we think

[2:34:09] Voice 3: matters or what we think matters and doesn't matter in that report you know by way of a kind

[2:34:13] Voice 3: of a recommendation or suggestion to trust council that at least this group of people that the job

[2:34:19] Voice 3: was delegated to think that you know this is the way to deal with the governor's report these are

[2:34:24] Voice 3: the things you know we can separate the sheep from the goats you know this this matters this other

[2:34:28] Voice 3: stuff whatever and you know we can help frame that discussion uh along and that's just one track but

[2:34:36] Voice 3: you know and then there's it's similar to what i was talking about before about framing the

[2:34:40] Voice 3: discussion of the provincial intervention by presenting a kind of a uh you know a position

[2:34:45] Voice 3: paper but those are two separate things but in any event i it might you know talk about march i'm not

[2:34:51] Voice 3: sure it would be unreasonable for us to develop that collective position paper by um by march

[2:34:58] Voice 3: uh we have done the work we've looked at it and we we do have a sense of what matters and what

[2:35:04] Voice 3: doesn't matter in that report we haven't done it's formulated and we could give it a try to

[2:35:09] Voice 3: to try to deliver something to the March meeting.

[2:35:13] Voice 3: Thank you.

[2:35:14] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris.

[2:35:19] Voice 13: I wonder, you know, I heard Trustee Middleton,

[2:35:22] Voice 13: he's mentioned this before and I spoke in favor of it,

[2:35:26] Voice 13: of hearing from one of the consultants of the review

[2:35:30] Voice 13: and would it not be helpful to hear from the consultant

[2:35:37] Voice 13: that Lee is speaking of and hear what they have to say,

[2:35:41] Voice 13: How have we done so far interpreting the review, and how have we done so far in implementing what they were asking or recommending that we do?

[2:35:55] Voice 13: I think that would be very, very helpful, and I'm fully in support.

[2:36:00] Voice 13: Maybe that's, you know, a quick next step we can take is asking for that as soon as possible.

[2:36:09] Voice 13: Again, this was February 2022 when the government's review was commissioned by the trust, and we're sitting here in February, almost February of 2024, and it's been such a slow process that it almost looks like the true intent of the review could be lost.

[2:36:36] Voice 13: So, anyways, I'm very much in favor of hearing from a consultant and maybe getting a bit of some feedback from them on what we've done so far.

[2:36:47] Voice 13: I'll leave it at that for now. Thank you.

[2:36:52] Trustee Gedye: Anyone else? Trustee Stamford?

[2:36:57] Voice 7: I don't want to keep sounding contrary. That's not usually my role here, but we were given this report.

[2:37:04] Voice 7: court um we still have not decided what we as a council think of it so until we have that

[2:37:13] Voice 7: conversation there were things that were really good there were things i don't agree with so i

[2:37:18] Voice 7: don't want to hear from the consultant again about things that i felt were interpreted incorrectly

[2:37:27] Voice 7: correctly so i'd rather have that conversation after we've had that conversation as a council

[2:37:34] Voice 7: or as a committee um i never had the opportunity to say this doesn't seem right or this works

[2:37:42] Voice 7: in my opinion this makes sense in my opinion it it we've never had that so i i would like to have

[2:37:50] Voice 7: that conversation first. All

[2:37:57] Trustee Gedye: right. So where are we going with this? Trust Council's review of the

[2:38:08] Trustee Gedye: 2022 governance report. Trustee Middleton.

[2:38:18] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Yeah, if we need to have it for the

[2:38:22] Trustee Middleton: satisfaction of trustees, if we need to have a two-part process where in the conversation we say

[2:38:29] Trustee Middleton: We don't understand this recommendation or we think this recommendation is great, but we really have no sense of how to implement it.

[2:38:37] Trustee Middleton: Or we think this recommendation stinks. We get shocked that this group would have come up with it.

[2:38:42] Trustee Middleton: I think if we can map out then some points of, shall we say, interrogation of the consultants at the next meeting, we would be doing ourselves a favor.

[2:38:52] Trustee Middleton: I mean, they're big people. They're used to making their point and having, you know, if you disagree, they want to hear why.

[2:38:58] Trustee Middleton: And they would tell you why they think what they do. And then hashing out a different understanding would be entirely possible.

[2:39:05] Trustee Middleton: It's not like we've commissioned an off the shelf, you know, consultancy shop review that kind of adheres to their worldview.

[2:39:16] Trustee Middleton: view and then they questioned well that's what you bought you bought our world view

[2:39:20] Trustee Middleton: these folks took the time to understand where we were as individual trustees and have vast

[2:39:28] Trustee Middleton: experience in matters of governance all over the world and to to the fact that they're still i

[2:39:34] Trustee Middleton: think interested in in offering us their perspective is excellent i'm not saying you

[2:39:39] Trustee Middleton: have to agree that's not what i'm saying at all i'm saying let's take the best advantage of the

[2:39:44] Trustee Middleton: the quality of work we got done here,

[2:39:46] Trustee Middleton: question it where necessary by all means,

[2:39:48] Trustee Middleton: but don't seek to come to a conclusion

[2:39:52] Trustee Middleton: without actually then opening up that process

[2:39:57] Trustee Middleton: to further information or further questioning.

[2:40:00] Trustee Middleton: So to what Trustee Stamford said, I'm fine with that.

[2:40:04] Trustee Middleton: I'm fine if we have a focus session with council,

[2:40:10] Trustee Middleton: but I do think there's still opportunity

[2:40:12] Trustee Middleton: opportunity to understand the nuances, as Trustee Stamford put, and frankly, some of the technical

[2:40:19] Trustee Middleton: recommendations, which are, you know, as non-professionals or perhaps beyond us, that we

[2:40:24] Trustee Middleton: could learn more about. I'd say we have to accept them, but I'm saying if we could create an opening

[2:40:29] Trustee Middleton: for further learning, that would be excellent. Thank you.

[2:40:32] Trustee Gedye: Can we put this onto our February

[2:40:35] Trustee Gedye: agenda and have all of us go back through all of the summaries that we made of the governance

[2:40:41] Trustee Gedye: review and i have that in a file that i mean it's a huge file but i can send that out to everybody

[2:40:47] Trustee Gedye: and we continue this conversation in terms of um whether or not would that rest would that give us

[2:40:54] Trustee Gedye: enough time if we wanted to have any kind of an intro discussion with the council in march

[2:41:01] Trustee Gedye: we came up with an agenda so

[2:41:03] Voice 6: your meetings yes madam chair i'm just gonna look at the calendar

[2:41:06] Voice 6: under here end

[2:41:08] Trustee Gedye: of february 20

[2:41:09] Voice 6: you're meeting at february 27th right

[2:41:17] Voice 8: 23rd

[2:41:18] Voice 6: 23rd i'm just bear with

[2:41:20] Voice 6: me so you're feb 23rd trust council is 12 13th 14th so

[2:41:33] Trustee Gedye: just barely enough time if we wanted to

[2:41:35] Voice 6: and then it all has to go to executive committee who approves it right on

[2:41:39] Voice 6: the 28th so you'd really

[2:41:43] Voice 6: You really have to, out of the 23rd, you'd have to have a real idea and you'd have to

[2:41:51] Voice 6: task the trustees with their review quite quickly.

[2:41:55] Voice 6: That would be in between the 23rd.

[2:41:57] Voice 6: So

[2:41:57] Trustee Gedye: it's possible, it's tight.

[2:42:00] Trustee Gedye: So let's put it back on the February agenda where we've done our homework in terms of

[2:42:04] Trustee Gedye: looking at all of the summaries that were done before.

[2:42:08] Voice 6: Madam Chair, you know what you could do though?

[2:42:10] Voice 6: at the march trust council you could you could task the trustees with this is you could make

[2:42:19] Voice 6: a message to the trustees to say we need your thinking

[2:42:22] Voice 5: and

[2:42:23] Voice 6: for sometime in the future whether

[2:42:26] Voice 6: it's a special meeting this is just an idea before anyone doesn't you know you could go

[2:42:31] Voice 6: this is important the governance committee wants your feedback um you know there's going to be a

[2:42:39] Voice 6: a time where we need your feedback on the governance report, and we'll have either a

[2:42:42] Voice 6: special session or a session in June. For today, though, I'm getting the feeling you don't want

[2:42:48] Voice 6: a session developed for March at this time.

[2:42:54] Trustee Gedye: Well, Joe has said we can if we push it.

[2:42:58] Trustee Gedye: I'm thinking that there's problems with that, just in terms of what's on the agenda for March,

[2:43:04] Trustee Gedye: and Trustee Peterson has spoken to that. Okay, Trustee Harris, your hand's been up for a while.

[2:43:10] Voice 13: Just to the, you know, I think that we can fit this in March as well,

[2:43:15] Voice 13: and we need to.

[2:43:16] Voice 13: If it has to go longer or something, then, again,

[2:43:20] Voice 13: this governance review is just floating off into limbo here,

[2:43:24] Voice 13: and we need to get on it.

[2:43:25] Voice 13: I really don't understand the fear of having trustees here from the consultant.

[2:43:34] Voice 13: Like, who better to explain, because clearly there's help needed and people determining what the government's review has stated.

[2:43:45] Voice 13: For some.

[2:43:46] Voice 13: For me, it's quite clear.

[2:43:48] Voice 13: So I'm really, you know, I'm very much a proponent of hearing from the consultant.

[2:43:56] Voice 13: And I would love to hear some feedback on how they feel we have done in interpreting it so far and implementing any recommendations that they had made.

[2:44:04] Voice 13: I'll leave it there. Thank you.

[2:44:06] Trustee Gedye: That's a whole other level, and it would take more time.

[2:44:08] Trustee Gedye: So that's also a consideration.

[2:44:11] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo?

[2:44:16] Voice 3: Yeah, thank you.

[2:44:17] Voice 3: Just following up on the CEO's comment, yeah, I mean, I get what he's asking.

[2:44:25] Voice 3: The difficulty is between the chair and myself and various trust council meetings on different issues,

[2:44:33] Voice 3: we've repeatedly asked the trustees to weigh in and to think about the governance report.

[2:44:38] Voice 3: in fact very early on i think one of our earliest trust council meetings were saying look this is

[2:44:43] Voice 3: really important you know and like you've delegated all this stuff to us but we need input from you

[2:44:47] Voice 3: guys think about it blah blah blah and we've done that at a different you know in the general level

[2:44:53] Voice 3: and then when we talked about corporate planning um the truth of it is that anyone who any trustee

[2:44:59] Voice 3: who is concerned enough with the issues and engaged with the issues has already in a sense

[2:45:05] Voice 3: It's shown their colors offline and kind of various initiatives that they're trying to do.

[2:45:12] Voice 3: So I'm not persuaded that, you know, just making that invitation is going to be helpful.

[2:45:18] Voice 3: I mean, we've seen it time and again.

[2:45:20] Voice 3: The Trust Council needs something to work with before it can get into the general discussion of stuff.

[2:45:25] Voice 3: It actually needs specifics.

[2:45:28] Voice 3: And our discussions don't ever get anywhere unless we're actually dealing with more concrete, fairly granular issues,

[2:45:33] Voice 3: which is why I was suggesting before in anticipation of March.

[2:45:37] Voice 3: I mean, the chair is asking, oh, let's all go back and look at what we did before and to do what?

[2:45:41] Voice 3: So we can do the same thing we did last time, which is just talk around it without analyzing it.

[2:45:47] Voice 3: I do think it'd be helpful to have a subgroup put together the thoughts that we had before

[2:45:54] Voice 3: so that we as a committee can have a discussion about how to prioritize

[2:45:59] Voice 3: prioritize or make priority recommendations to trust council with respect to the governance

[2:46:05] Voice 3: review and start the discussion for them that way what emerges out of the discussion may look

[2:46:11] Voice 3: completely different but uh we need to show some kind of leadership here i think

[2:46:16] Trustee Gedye: thanks trustee

[2:46:19] Trustee Gedye: peterson we got 15 minutes

[2:46:21] Voice 11: left i was just gonna say we're running out of time um i i i don't think

[2:46:27] Voice 11: we're ready to bring this to to March Council I would suggest that we come

[2:46:33] Voice 11: back on February 23rd and do some more work on this and hopefully we can get

[2:46:39] Voice 11: through the rest of the items that we have on the agenda today all

[2:46:46] Trustee Gedye: right I

[2:46:47] Trustee Gedye: tend to agree with that so do whatever homework you want to do get up to speed

[2:46:54] Trustee Gedye: so that we can figure out what it is we're going to be presenting to Trust

[2:46:58] Trustee Gedye: council uh motion to table this to the february 23rd meeting can i have a seconder trustee

[2:47:12] Trustee Gedye: stanford yeah

[2:47:17] Voice 7: you broke down but yes i'm seconding that got

[2:47:25] Trustee Gedye: a dog that's erupting in the background

[2:47:27] Trustee Gedye: i hope it doesn't bother you as much as it bothers me um so um do we have a well we can't

[2:47:38] Voice 8: hear you trustee giddy we

[2:47:40] Trustee Gedye: have a vote on the my motion to table it until february all in favor

[2:47:46] Trustee Gedye: hands down and all opposed what was that four to three yes

[2:48:11] Voice 12: four to three all

[2:48:13] Trustee Gedye: right so we're

[2:48:14] Trustee Gedye: tabling it uh i would suggest we do some homework in terms of going back over the work that we did

[2:48:22] Trustee Gedye: and it doesn't have to be um it can be prioritizing it i think joe um but we'll deal with that when

[2:48:29] Trustee Gedye: we get to it so 7.4 communication of the trust council section three of the islands trust act

[2:48:34] Trustee Gedye: contract statement.

[2:48:36] Trustee Middleton: Did I raise just a small point of order, please, Trustee Yeti, not to be

[2:48:40] Trustee Middleton: impolite, but one of the means of being an ex-officio member is that you don't actually vote.

[2:48:47] Trustee Middleton: And so I don't think it changes the nature of that vote. I didn't want to be so crass as to

[2:48:54] Trustee Middleton: bring it up at the time of vote, but it is in fact the nature of the position.

[2:49:01] Trustee Gedye: That was the other

[2:49:01] Trustee Gedye: question that was raised when Lisa looked at the terms of reference. It's not specifically

[2:49:06] Trustee Gedye: spelled out in the bylaw but we haven't sorted that out yet so we'll leave it so then we've got

[2:49:13] Trustee Gedye: a tie and um i voted

[2:49:18] Voice 12: yeah we made tie votes would fail um the policy only refers to the

[2:49:26] Voice 12: ex-official of the chair yeah um the itc member is also ex-official but it's not clear if the

[2:49:33] Voice 12: the ex-officio ITC member can vote or not the policy does not say that they don't yeah so yeah

[2:49:40] Voice 12: you're right it does need to be cleaned up but

[2:49:43] Voice 3: isn't that what the term means ex-officio it's

[2:49:46] Voice 3: like by definition non-voting no

[2:49:48] Voice 12: actually the non-voting is something that council's policy

[2:49:54] Voice 12: states ex-officio under Robert's rules just simply means that you have the position by virtue of your

[2:50:00] Voice 12: office um but you would have full voting rights unless the bylaws or policies say otherwise it

[2:50:07] Trustee Gedye: has to do with um quorum as well

[2:50:09] Voice 12: correct yeah well then

[2:50:13] Voice 3: if but if lisa isn't exempted then on

[2:50:16] Voice 3: those terms uh mr martin doesn't that mean that she's eligible to vote and count as part of the

[2:50:21] Voice 3: quorum yeah

[2:50:22] Voice 12: i would uh yeah i would say that based on the way the policy is written that she

[2:50:27] Voice 12: She does. The only person who can't is the chair, because their policy

[2:50:30] Voice 12: specifically says that. The chair of Trust Council, you mean? Correct.

[2:50:34] Voice 12: Yes.

[2:50:35] Voice 3: Well, I think that's clear enough as it goes now,

[2:50:40] Voice 3: don't you think? I mean, if Trust Council wants

[2:50:43] Voice 3: the ex-officio rep from the Conservancy to

[2:50:47] Voice 3: not be a voting member and not count towards quorum, it can say so.

[2:50:51] Voice 3: It hasn't done so, so there you have it.

[2:50:56] Trustee Gedye: Tracey Peterson?

[2:51:00] Voice 11: Yeah, are we going to have time to get any of our other business done today?

[2:51:03] Voice 11: I'm just concerned.

[2:51:06] Trustee Gedye: No.

[2:51:07] Voice 3: Well, there's just the one thing, this communication thing.

[2:51:11] Trustee Gedye: And the CAO hiring.

[2:51:13] Voice 3: CAO hiring.

[2:51:14] Voice 3: Right.

[2:51:17] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[2:51:17] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[2:51:19] Trustee Gedye: As chair, then, I'm going to say that because the bylaw is silent on whether or not the ex-officio member of the Conservancy can vote, that I'm going to allow it.

[2:51:29] Trustee Gedye: the distinction is that the chair of the trust if he was allowed to vote would have a double vote

[2:51:35] Trustee Gedye: and once it gets to executive committee which is different for the conservancy um so um anybody

[2:51:46] Trustee Gedye: wants to challenge that go right ahead well

[2:51:51] Voice 13: i guess i guess i kind of challenge it just because

[2:51:53] Voice 13: it's the conservancy and not the trust so it seems to me there's some muddy water there um

[2:52:00] Voice 13: Okay. I do challenge that. But anyway, so

[2:52:03] Trustee Gedye: the motion was to table this till February. So we can get into by the time we sorted this out, it'll be February. So let's just leave it as the chair's ruling. And if we need clarification in the bylaw, then so be it. And that's the next item of business. Right.

[2:52:20] Trustee Gedye: To be

[2:52:22] Voice 8: clear, the motion has carried or continues?

[2:52:27] Trustee Gedye: Yes, it has carried.

[2:52:29] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[2:52:31] Trustee Gedye: We've got two items, communication of the Section 3 and the CAO hiring.

[2:52:35] Trustee Gedye: And according to my watch, we've got 10 minutes.

[2:52:42] Trustee Gedye: Which would you like to deal with?

[2:52:43] Trustee Gedye: We're not going to be able to do both.

[2:52:45] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton?

[2:52:47] Trustee Middleton: Oh, just because I don't think it's a contentious item.

[2:52:50] Trustee Middleton: I was involved in the framing of the membership of the committee.

[2:52:54] Trustee Middleton: I think it's not fair to you, Chair, to just put it on you as a ruling.

[2:52:58] Trustee Middleton: I think there is the intelligence out there and the policy detail that we could actually have a position brought back to us about what we currently have, what might or might not have been intended, and then a decision can be made.

[2:53:11] Trustee Middleton: I'm not quibbling with this vote.

[2:53:13] Trustee Middleton: Understand your ruling right now.

[2:53:14] Trustee Middleton: That's fine.

[2:53:15] Trustee Middleton: But I actually think we can get very clear definition on this.

[2:53:19] Trustee Middleton: My understanding was it was most certainly not intended that the Conservancy be permitted a vote at the governance table, but it was a courtesy matter to permit the membership and a voice at the table.

[2:53:31] Trustee Middleton: And if we need to look at that policy, I think it would be useful for us to do so, because the policy as currently drafted was not the intent of the committee, it sounds like to me.

[2:53:42] Trustee Middleton: thank

[2:53:45] Voice 3: you that sounds like a decision that sounds like a decision we're gonna have to

[2:53:49] Voice 3: take back to trust council to clarify the terms of reference

[2:53:51] Trustee Gedye: okay so um let's table that discussion

[2:53:58] Trustee Gedye: to february as well yes and the section three communication or the cao hiring process one or

[2:54:07] Trustee Gedye: the other we've got seven minutes now let's

[2:54:10] Voice 3: do a cao three c8 section three it's it's it's a

[2:54:15] Voice 3: a lingering issue that needs to be addressed.

[2:54:18] Trustee Gedye: All right. Anybody opposed to that? There is a

[2:54:24] Trustee Gedye: CAO hiring committee that's being organized and there's been a date that's set. So if you've got

[2:54:28] Trustee Gedye: ideas and suggestions, then work through that process.

[2:54:34] Voice 3: I think the governance committee is

[2:54:36] Voice 3: entitled to weigh in on governance issues and it probably does make sense to wait until after the

[2:54:40] Voice 3: first meeting of the hiring committee to determine whether or not there's actually any need for us to

[2:54:44] Voice 3: step in or not to make recommendations okay that's probably the right time to do it

[2:54:48] Trustee Gedye: okay so section

[2:54:50] Trustee Gedye: three um i sent around uh a memo and it was included in section pages 101 and 102 of this

[2:54:58] Trustee Gedye: agenda um so i went back through and repeated the legislation um and this ties in with all of the

[2:55:07] Trustee Gedye: correspondence that we had from the friends of the gulf islands at the beginning of this agenda

[2:55:11] Trustee Gedye: So, there was a statement of consensus, and then that got edited, and what was published in terms of highlights, business highlights, which is very difficult to find, and the original statement of consensus was impossible to find.

[2:55:31] Trustee Gedye: and i think that there was some nuance lost in the the summary so i would like to

[2:55:41] Trustee Gedye: not debate how report rise and reports or highlights or anything gets reported but simply

[2:55:50] Trustee Gedye: on this that larger policy or discussion but just say that we need to publish the the complete text

[2:56:00] Trustee Gedye: context of the statement of consensus that was reached at the September meeting and not have any

[2:56:06] Trustee Gedye: sort of a summary. Trustee Harris, your hand was up and it's down.

[2:56:14] Voice 13: Yeah, I'm going to just refrain

[2:56:17] Voice 13: at the moment.

[2:56:18] Trustee Gedye: Okay. Trustee Bernardo? I

[2:56:20] Voice 3: agree with you. The confusion in the public has arisen

[2:56:26] Voice 3: because highlights were published and it's just the hope. It's difficult to separate the obscurity

[2:56:31] Voice 3: people are complaining about when they complain about what's happening at the meeting versus

[2:56:36] Voice 3: the publication i think in we need to start a process of clarification what you recommended

[2:56:42] Voice 3: is exactly right let's get rid of this attempt to summarize something that's brief already let's

[2:56:47] Voice 3: publish the statement of consensus in a prominent place the public can see that's transparency and

[2:56:53] Voice 3: then let's see what falls out of that so we don't have a lot of time i'm happy to make the motion

[2:56:59] Voice 3: that we do exactly that unless people are really excited

[2:57:03] Voice 3: about the idea of not having a motion.

[2:57:06] Voice 3: Put

[2:57:08] Trustee Gedye: the motion on the floor.

[2:57:10] Voice 3: I move that the statement of consensus

[2:57:13] Voice 3: regarding section three, the Islands Trust Act

[2:57:16] Voice 3: be published in its entirety in a prominent

[2:57:20] Voice 3: and easily accessible location on the Islands Trust website.

[2:57:26] Voice 3: I second the motion.

[2:57:29] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, Trustee Harris?

[2:57:30] Voice 13: There it is.

[2:57:32] Voice 13: i just said i second the motion sorry

[2:57:34] Trustee Gedye: thank you okay any discussion

[2:57:36] Trustee Gedye: all

[2:57:37] Voice 3: right um i i guess i'll

[2:57:38] Voice 3: have to repeat the language here

[2:57:39] Voice 8: yes thank you after entirely that

[2:57:43] Voice 3: that the statement of

[2:57:44] Voice 3: consensus regarding section three uh be published in in in its entirety in a prominent and easily

[2:57:58] Voice 3: accessible location on the

[2:58:05] Voice 3: Islands Trust website and that

[2:58:09] Voice 3: any other summaries or highlight statements

[2:58:19] Voice 3: on the website be removed.

[2:58:34] Trustee Gedye: Can we add the date to the Statement of Consensus from the September

[2:58:42] Trustee Gedye: 23rd?

[2:58:43] Voice 3: The Statement of Consensus agreed

[2:58:46] Voice 3: Agreed to by Trust Council on September 23, 2023.

[2:58:56] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[2:58:57] Voice 3: Okay, there you go.

[2:58:58] Voice 3: That's the motion.

[2:59:01] Trustee Gedye: So, Jamie, that's still seconded?

[2:59:04] Trustee Gedye: Yes.

[2:59:06] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton?

[2:59:09] Trustee Middleton: Excuse me.

[2:59:10] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chip.

[2:59:12] Trustee Middleton: Pardon my ignorance here.

[2:59:14] Trustee Middleton: So the full statement, is that a matter of a few additional words that were omitted from the paragraph?

[2:59:22] Trustee Middleton: paragraph or are you referring there to the actual I think one page preamble to the state that formed

[2:59:30] Trustee Middleton: part of the statement of consensus consensus I mean I'm not being

[2:59:43] Voice 11: I took it to mean that as

[2:59:45] Voice 11: written on with page 101 of this agenda that's what I assumed but if I'm wrong please let me

[2:59:50] Voice 3: know let's see what's on page 101 can we have that put up yeah

[2:59:54] Trustee Gedye: there's three paragraphs on page 101

[3:00:00] Trustee Gedye: Can you reduce that a little bit, Alexandra? It's hard to see, or maybe it's just the way

[3:00:05] Trustee Gedye: I'm displaying it. Thanks. Good.

[3:00:14] Trustee Middleton: Okay. No, thank you. That's obviously makes it very clear.

[3:00:17] Trustee Middleton: I just wonder if there might be some consideration put to actually publishing the preamble

[3:00:26] Trustee Middleton: to that page, or basically you can see it would be the top section, and then I think there were

[3:00:34] Trustee Middleton: were two or three paragraphs i thought they were extremely well worded and i know that was consensus

[3:00:38] Trustee Middleton: by the the uh by yourself trustee bernardo and the uh and our chair and i i thought they did a

[3:00:45] Trustee Middleton: very good job of explaining the context for decision making and i think might be very helpful

[3:00:50] Trustee Middleton: here

[3:00:52] Trustee Gedye: all right so that's a longer document that's a two pages instead of three paragraphs so then

[3:00:59] Trustee Gedye: And if we get into just providing a press release that has all of it and linking some sort of a notice that there's been clarification, more detail with respect to the business highlights from September?

[3:01:18] Voice 6: Yes, that would be great, I think.

[3:01:20] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[3:01:20] Trustee Gedye: Russ, is that possible?

[3:01:21] Trustee Gedye: Yeah,

[3:01:22] Voice 6: we could take this three-paragraph thing and we can make a note at the bottom that links to the full statement that was provided initially.

[3:01:34] Trustee Gedye: I think what Lee is saying is that we publish all of it, and not just these three paragraphs, but the preamble. Is that too big?

[3:01:43] Voice 6: I don't think it's too big. I think we could find a spot on the website that's prominent around Trust Council news or Trust Council highlights.

[3:01:52] Voice 6: um and we could title it as um interpretation of the section three mandate and we could um if you

[3:02:00] Voice 6: think that it's appropriate we could put those two pages there

[3:02:03] Trustee Gedye: okay trustee bernardo your hands

[3:02:06] Trustee Gedye: yes

[3:02:06] Voice 3: i actually i've forgotten it was up sorry but i actually uh just uh responding to the caos

[3:02:14] Voice 3: comment just right now um i think the thing probably deserves to be um have its own like

[3:02:21] Voice 3: Like, it's a big deal to having an interpretation of it.

[3:02:23] Voice 3: It's not news or highlights.

[3:02:24] Voice 3: It's not a passing thing.

[3:02:26] Voice 3: It should be framed where the link and where it lands in the website should be framed as kind of a permanent thing.

[3:02:36] Voice 3: Which says interpretation of Section 3 or interpretation of the trust mandate, you know, in the About Us or whatever section.

[3:02:45] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[3:02:45] Trustee Gedye: And the whole thing, not just the three paragraphs.

[3:02:50] Voice 3: You know, I can't remember what the preamble says and whether or not it's going to send the right message, but I don't have any strong views about it myself.

[3:02:58] Voice 6: All right.

[3:02:59] Voice 6: We can certainly work with Chair Getty to ensure that the right material is put forward.

[3:03:06] Voice 6: Yeah.

[3:03:06] Trustee Gedye: And if I remember correctly, the background, the intro was that the governance committee in February of 22 said this, and then we looked at all of this, and it was a priority, and we looked at the legal opinions that had been accumulated.

[3:03:24] Trustee Gedye: formulated and um the only addition uh eventually as somehow is that this and i guess i'm just

[3:03:32] Trustee Gedye: saying it publicly if anybody's listening this was talking about the legalities of section three

[3:03:38] Trustee Gedye: and the legal interpretation it doesn't change policy so we've still got all the policy um you

[3:03:45] Trustee Gedye: know i'd look i was working on the checklist for policy decisions and and all of the important

[3:03:49] Trustee Gedye: stuff that people are worried about is included that so um is this is just some sort of

[3:03:54] Trustee Gedye: clarification trustee peterson i

[3:03:58] Voice 11: would say in the about us section pardon me is a good spot to put

[3:04:03] Voice 11: it and then uh i'll leave it to um to uh whoever's actually going to do the work i would suggest

[3:04:12] Voice 11: perhaps under the islands trust act section in about us might be the appropriate spot um however

[3:04:19] Voice 11: I think and about us is the right spot and then super briefly because I know

[3:04:25] Voice 11: we're out of time you know other part of this item was supposed to be about the

[3:04:31] Voice 11: communication and how it rolled out yeah the concerns from the public I think for

[3:04:38] Voice 11: me a lot of that can be considered as part of our ongoing discussions about

[3:04:45] Voice 11: meetings yeah

[3:04:48] Trustee Gedye: and communication good all right so with your indulgence in if you can delegate

[3:04:55] Trustee Gedye: this to myself and I will work with the CAO and we will get a fulsome explanation of our September

[3:05:03] Trustee Gedye: 23rd decision up on the website someplace nice and prominent where people can find it all right

[3:05:11] Trustee Gedye: All right, so we're tabling any discussion that, sorry?

[3:05:16] Voice 8: Sorry, Chair Giddey, did we vote on where?

[3:05:20] Voice 8: We

[3:05:20] Trustee Gedye: need to have a vote.

[3:05:21] Voice 8: Yes, thank you.

[3:05:22] Trustee Gedye: Hold on, okay.

[3:05:24] Trustee Gedye: There's the motion on the screen.

[3:05:28] Trustee Gedye: Do we have any more discussion?

[3:05:31] Trustee Gedye: Call a vote.

[3:05:31] Trustee Gedye: All those in favor?

[3:05:36] Trustee Gedye: Any opposed?

[3:05:41] Trustee Gedye: Carried, thank you.

[3:05:43] Trustee Gedye: All right, so we added in a new addition

[3:05:47] Trustee Gedye: was the CAO hiring in new business.

[3:05:51] Trustee Gedye: And we spoke briefly to that a few minutes ago

[3:05:54] Trustee Gedye: in terms of the interest of the governance committee on this.

[3:05:59] Trustee Gedye: So if you have any thoughts,

[3:06:02] Trustee Gedye: I've been asked to sit on the committee.

[3:06:05] Trustee Gedye: So I'm asking you for input

[3:06:07] Trustee Gedye: and any of your thoughts and ideas

[3:06:09] Trustee Gedye: that you think are relevant to issues of governance

[3:06:13] Trustee Gedye: that need to be taken into consideration.

[3:06:15] Trustee Gedye: And I will summarize those and share them amongst us, and then we'll have it on the agenda for February and an update in terms of how that process is working. Is that satisfactory?

[3:06:30] Voice 3: Yes. And you want us to send those to you offline or outside of the meeting context?

[3:06:36] Trustee Gedye: Yes.

[3:06:37] Voice 3: Okay.

[3:06:37] Voice 3: Yeah.

[3:06:38] Trustee Gedye: Between now and, I can't remember when the first meeting is, it's coming up soon

[3:06:43] Trustee Gedye: and we're going to figure out parameters.

[3:06:45] Trustee Gedye: parameters okay so um motion to adjourn the next meeting is february the 23rd 2024 i assume that's

[3:06:54] Trustee Gedye: nine o'clock in the morning again for three hours and um i stand to be corrected i don't have that

[3:07:00] Trustee Gedye: in front of me but um other than that let's uh have a motion to adjourn i

[3:07:06] Voice 3: still move any and i

[3:07:09] Voice 11: I would just super briefly add that four of the members of this committee will be on that hiring committee.

[3:07:17] Voice 11: Myself, Bernardo as chair of financial planning, Getty as chair of this committee, and Patrick as chair of the regional planning committee.

[3:07:26] Voice 11: Well,

[3:07:26] Trustee Gedye: that's good crossing. Okay.

[3:07:28] Voice 11: So basically half of us are on that hiring committee.

[3:07:31] Trustee Gedye: All right. So we'll make sure that the rest of you understand and have news of what the process is.

[3:07:37] Trustee Gedye: Good. All right.

[3:07:38] Trustee Gedye: so bye everybody have a great day

[3:07:40] Voice 11: a

[3:07:41] Trustee Gedye: vote on the motion to adjourn

[3:07:42] Trustee Gedye: all of you thank you

[3:07:44] Voice 4: thank you

[3:07:45] Voice 4: thanks bye bye

[3:07:47] Trustee Gedye: see you in February

[3:07:49] Voice 4: bye everyone

[3:07:51] Voice 8: thanks

[3:07:52] Trustee Gedye: Alexandra

[3:07:53] Trustee Gedye: you're

[3:07:54] Voice 8: welcome take care

[3:07:58] Trustee Gedye: Alexandra if you've got feedback

[3:08:00] Voice 8: just chair Getty one moment

[3:08:02] Voice 8: please while I stop

[3:08:04] Voice 8: the recording and the live

[3:08:06] Voice 8: stream okay