Islands Trust Council regular meeting, February 21, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 12: It's an important acknowledgement that we are privileged to live and work in lands

[0:00:06] Voice 12: and waters that have been the traditional home of Indigenous peoples since time immemorial.

[0:00:12] Voice 12: Peoples who have counseled newcomers to recognize the sacredness of the lands and waters that we're privileged to live in, as well as the dignity and worth of the people who live in them.

[0:00:28] Voice 12: that's that's been their counsel it's also the job of the island's trust under section three

[0:00:34] Voice 12: of of the act of our mandate and to fulfill that duty we must work and will work side by

[0:00:42] Voice 12: side with the nations who were and continue to be the first stewards of these islands we now call

[0:00:47] Voice 12: our home I would like to move on now to review the agenda before we do that just some preliminary

[0:00:56] Voice 12: remarks this is a very important meeting it's incumbent on all of us to be as efficient and

[0:01:01] Voice 12: disciplined as we can because the core piece of business at this meeting is that we have to settle

[0:01:07] Voice 12: on the budget that we as a committee will recommend to trust council and we can debate and

[0:01:16] Voice 12: tussle over this and that but our duty really at the end of the piece is to reach a result

[0:01:25] Voice 12: uh and whatever that result is as a committee uh we stand behind behind it and say look this is as

[0:01:32] Voice 12: good as we could manage it this is what we're recommending so that we as a committee are

[0:01:38] Voice 12: providing uh genuine advice to trust council which is to say undivided uh uh advice otherwise we're

[0:01:46] Voice 12: no use to trust council we can have our differences we can have our different opinions but at some

[0:01:50] Voice 12: point after we've reached compromise we need to live with it and move on and that's the advice

[0:01:56] Voice 12: that we provide to trust council that's going to be the focus of the meeting today so i'm going to

[0:02:00] Voice 12: ask that we stay as disciplined as we can that's also why i extended the meeting by a couple of

[0:02:07] Voice 12: hours i certainly hope that we can do it in much less time than that but that was done out of an

[0:02:13] Voice 12: abundance abundance of caution so thank you for uh indulging those remarks um i would like to move

[0:02:21] Voice 12: move to item 2.1 of the agenda um for the committee to consider any late items new items any other

[0:02:29] Voice 12: reordering of the agenda anything like that do we have anything along those lines from anybody

[0:02:36] Voice 12: not hearing anything unless i hear otherwise i'm going to take it by consent that the agenda has

[0:02:42] Voice 12: been approved unless i hear from somebody who has a comment all right thank you are there mr

[0:02:51] Voice 12: Mr. Barlow, any members of the public present who wish to make

[0:02:54] Voice 12: comments?

[0:02:56] Voice 1: There is one member of the public

[0:02:58] Voice 1: present, Mary Beth Rondeau, and she has the

[0:03:02] Voice 1: ability to raise her hand if she wishes to speak.

[0:03:06] Voice 12: Well, this is

[0:03:07] Voice 12: Ms. Rondeau's opportunity to speak if she wishes to speak now. She has

[0:03:13] Voice 1: not raised her hand, so... All right, thank you.

[0:03:16] Voice 12: And I see by the agenda there are no delegations scheduled, and

[0:03:21] Voice 12: There's no correspondence to report on.

[0:03:26] Voice 12: Technically, I can report on a minor piece of correspondence, if we can put it that way,

[0:03:30] Voice 12: which is an email I received from Director Marler earlier this morning, which had a useful reminder.

[0:03:36] Voice 12: And on that pretext, I just wanted to advise the Financial Planning Committee that the hiring committee for the new CAO

[0:03:45] Voice 12: is in the process of developing a business case for the funding of hiring an executive search

[0:03:53] Voice 12: firm. You will recall that as a committee, we approved that funding already, basically on an

[0:04:00] Voice 12: urgent basis without a business case. And we approved that amount of $75,000 to be in the

[0:04:06] Voice 12: future budget that's already worked in. There are no more approvals for us to make in respect of

[0:04:11] Voice 12: that um the business case is not being prepared for the review of fpc timing won't allow for that

[0:04:18] Voice 12: and it's actually not necessary because as i've mentioned we made that decision it's being prepared

[0:04:23] Voice 12: so that it can be part of the package that goes to the trust council and for the record and also

[0:04:28] Voice 12: for the benefit of trustees who want to know about the details of these things uh the rationale for

[0:04:35] Voice 12: the funding uh will be put forward uh it's mostly for the record but really for the information of

[0:04:42] Voice 12: the trustees all of that information they'd be informed of it orally regardless at first council

[0:04:47] Voice 12: but it is important to to document these things all right uh moving on from that um some more

[0:04:54] Voice 12: administrative uh business we have before us draft meeting draft minutes of previous meetings uh that

[0:05:00] Voice 12: would be from the uh regular meeting we had on january 24th and then special meeting we had

[0:05:05] Voice 12: subsequently i believe it was february 1st does anybody have any comments about any of these um

[0:05:13] Voice 12: minutes. Are there any corrections that they believe need to be made? And I'm taking a risk

[0:05:20] Voice 12: here and asking the question about both of them all at once. All right. I'm not hearing anything.

[0:05:29] Voice 12: So I'm going to take that as my basis for taking that the minutes from January 24 and February 1

[0:05:38] Voice 12: have been adopted by consent. We do not have any resolutions about meeting.

[0:05:44] Voice 12: We have the follow-up action list. I don't really think, even if anybody has anything

[0:05:52] Voice 12: to comment about that, I don't think we should belabor it. We are under a certain amount of

[0:05:57] Voice 12: timing pressure here. But if anybody has anything to say about the follow-up action list,

[0:06:02] Voice 12: now is the time to identify an issue. I would hope it would be a pressing issue

[0:06:08] Voice 12: if it's worth commenting on. All right. Let's move on to the next item then.

[0:06:19] Voice 12: And I'm delighted that we are zeroing in into the work of this committee very quickly.

[0:06:29] Voice 12: Before we get into the discussion of discussing the budget, we're going to have a briefing

[0:06:36] Voice 12: from Director Mobbs that follows on the discussion we had at the special meeting.

[0:06:42] Voice 12: After that, you'll recall that at the special meeting, the committee had developed five

[0:06:48] Voice 12: five statements that may or may not have served

[0:06:52] Voice 12: as theoretical budget guidelines.

[0:06:57] Voice 12: And we basically wanted director Mobs' input

[0:07:01] Voice 12: as to the feasibility of applying any of them

[0:07:07] Voice 12: to the current budget and basically to provide insight

[0:07:10] Voice 12: as to how to think about those guidelines.

[0:07:13] Voice 12: So with that, I'm gonna turn it over to director Mobs.

[0:07:15] Voice 12: Thanks

[0:07:19] Voice 7: for that intro chair.

[0:07:20] Voice 7: care. So as everybody knows, I was unable to attend the special meeting of financial planning

[0:07:26] Voice 7: committee where these potential budget guidelines were discussed. I did have a conversation with

[0:07:31] Voice 7: Chair Bernardo after that meeting to sort of get caught up, and I have listened to the recording

[0:07:35] Voice 7: of the meeting, so I have some understanding of the conversation that went into forming these

[0:07:41] Voice 7: draft guidelines. I did have a look at them in conjunction with the rest of the management team

[0:07:45] Voice 7: to understand if they would be achievable to implement in any way for the current budget

[0:07:50] Voice 7: cycle acknowledging of course that we are quite late in the budget cycle and so implementing these

[0:07:56] Voice 7: sort of to the degree that the committee may wish for there are some limitations there.

[0:08:01] Voice 7: A couple of things that I wanted to point out related to those draft guidelines

[0:08:07] Voice 7: when they were being reviewed is how applicable they are in shaping the budget or not.

[0:08:16] Voice 7: So some of these guidelines or statements do not actually result in a change to the budget itself,

[0:08:23] Voice 7: but seem to be more useful as a decision making mechanism for committee members.

[0:08:30] Voice 7: So they sort of help with trustees in weighing various initiatives against one another,

[0:08:37] Voice 7: but don't actually give direction to staff to make any budget changes.

[0:08:39] Voice 7: So I'll just very briefly walk through just a few high-level comments that we had on the

[0:08:46] Voice 7: various guidelines.

[0:08:48] Voice 7: Guideline number one is we were able to sort of apply this at a high level against the

[0:08:54] Voice 7: current budget cycle, acknowledging, of course, that it is a bit limiting.

[0:08:58] Voice 7: So it talks about resource requests to address critical capacity issues and achieve cost

[0:09:06] Voice 7: savings within two years.

[0:09:07] Voice 7: So it isn't looking at achieving time savings, for example.

[0:09:10] Voice 7: It only looks at cost savings, and time savings could also be important.

[0:09:14] Voice 7: It doesn't consider whether or not work in the budget is required under new legislation,

[0:09:19] Voice 7: and also it does not consider how projects already in play should be handled.

[0:09:23] Voice 7: So as a guiding statement, it is workable to implement.

[0:09:27] Voice 7: However, it's not fully complete, and it may miss a few points.

[0:09:33] Voice 7: Guideline number two, advancing the mandate of the trust and local trust area.

[0:09:37] Voice 7: We were able to apply that, taking some liberties with the interpretation. Of course, you know, there's a bit of a question there. Does regional work that impacts local level initiatives, does that count under this guideline?

[0:09:50] Voice 7: guideline. Staff did apply this guideline as best they could, and we'll see that in

[0:09:55] Voice 7: the next attachment here. But that one is fairly easy, again, to implement with some

[0:10:01] Voice 7: liberties, but again, doesn't remove things from the budget, simply allows for some weighting

[0:10:07] Voice 7: of various initiatives against others. Guideline number three is a similar type of thing where

[0:10:14] Voice 7: business cases will be weighted more favorably than others. Again, this doesn't give direction

[0:10:18] Voice 7: to staff to change the budget in any way but is useful as a decision-making tool for trustees.

[0:10:26] Voice 7: Guideline number four, could use them in there for me Robert, thank you. Guideline number four

[0:10:37] Voice 7: speaks to tax increases as well as levels of spending in one statement, which make it

[0:10:44] Voice 7: It's difficult, virtually impossible to actually implement or to apply to the current budget.

[0:10:51] Voice 7: So tax increase levels are different to spending levels.

[0:10:55] Voice 7: You could have an increase in your spending levels of 10% and an increase in local trust area taxes of only 2%.

[0:11:01] Voice 7: And that difference usually is because we've got other sources of funding that are paying for increased spending, such as grant funds, or in our case, typically draws from surplus.

[0:11:12] Voice 7: plus. And so the meshing of tax increase considerations with spending increase considerations

[0:11:17] Voice 7: in a single guideline, it doesn't make sense to apply. So we were unable to apply that one to the

[0:11:24] Voice 7: current budget. Looking at guideline number five, asking staff to present council with

[0:11:31] Voice 7: various budget scenarios to achieve 1% reduction and 2% reduction in proposed tax increase.

[0:11:38] Voice 7: increase. Again, this isn't a guideline. This is more direction to staff if there's a desire for

[0:11:45] Voice 7: the committee to have this work undertaken. It's difficult to present three different budgets,

[0:11:51] Voice 7: I would say. It's easier to present one budget that is recommended by the committee, because

[0:11:56] Voice 7: that's the committee's job, with a list of potential soft spots in the budget that could

[0:12:02] Voice 7: be looked at for reduction consideration. And so this committee could be looking at that list of

[0:12:08] Voice 7: potential item to reduce or it could go to Trust Council. So that would be how we would look to

[0:12:16] Voice 7: apply that one. Management staff have sat together, looked at the budget to discuss where some soft

[0:12:23] Voice 7: spots may exist. And we do have a list of potential items for this committee or Trust Council to

[0:12:28] Voice 7: consider if there is a desire to reduce the budget. None of those have been implemented in the current

[0:12:34] Voice 7: version of the budget. Of course, many budget reductions are political decisions, and so

[0:12:38] Voice 7: staff will await direction if we are going to implement any of those.

[0:12:43] Voice 7: If we look to attachment two, this is where we've got a colorful table. This is a table where staff

[0:12:52] Voice 7: have applied guidelines one through three against the various initiatives that are funded in the

[0:12:57] Voice 7: the budget. And so, we have applied, hopefully, easy legends to interpret. A checkmark means that

[0:13:05] Voice 7: the criteria has been met, and X means the criteria has not been met. A question mark

[0:13:10] Voice 7: indicates that something is unclear. We are unsure if the criteria has been met by a certain

[0:13:16] Voice 7: initiative. And NA is, of course, if a criteria is not applicable to a particular initiative.

[0:13:22] Voice 7: it. So hopefully this is a visual that will help trustees understand how the guidelines they've put

[0:13:28] Voice 7: together would help in their decision making around various budget items. Again, it hasn't

[0:13:36] Voice 7: resulted in any changes to the budget. We would expect the committee would give direction on that.

[0:13:41] Voice 7: So that's a brief overview. I can take questions if there are any from the committee.

[0:13:49] Voice 12: This is the opportunity, committee members, to follow up with Director Mobs about

[0:13:55] Voice 12: this guidelines discussion trustee bowman the

[0:14:03] Voice 17: fourth one that had two you said you know would

[0:14:08] Voice 17: be impossible to implement as it exists do you have any recommendations about how we could split

[0:14:14] Voice 17: those apart or you know if you were to choose some sort of aspect of the consumer price index

[0:14:21] Voice 17: and which sort of time frame you would use as a reference thanks uh

[0:14:29] Voice 7: certainly so

[0:14:32] Voice 7: it's it's much more practical to talk about tax increases separately from levels of spending

[0:14:42] Voice 7: as i mentioned those are two separate topics and they are not always aligned although very much

[0:14:49] Voice 7: related and tend to move in tandem. So having a guideline that speaks just to the tax increase

[0:14:55] Voice 7: and a guideline that speaks just to spending, if that's desired, that would be a better approach

[0:15:01] Voice 7: to take. You can put a limitation on tax increases or on spending in whatever manner you wish.

[0:15:07] Voice 7: If consumer price index is the desired limitation, typically what we do is look to the consumer price

[0:15:15] Voice 7: index for Victoria for December of the preceding year. So that's what we use currently. We do have

[0:15:22] Voice 7: budget policies that say that would be the driver that we would use when we're looking at CPI. And

[0:15:27] Voice 7: so I'd recommend the same. It also is sort of the most up-to-date information that we would have on

[0:15:33] Voice 7: CPI when we are forming a future budget year. We could consider CPI forecasts. They, you know,

[0:15:42] Voice 7: who doesn't have one half of the other I think sticking with our current December figure would

[0:15:48] Voice 7: be just fine unless we're expecting significant swings in CPI which can be difficult to predict

[0:15:52] Voice 7: thank

[0:15:56] Voice 12: you director mobs trustee graham thank

[0:15:59] Voice 8: you chair um thank you director mobs for uh looking

[0:16:02] Voice 8: at our guidelines and putting them through a practical um demonstration uh really demonstrates

[0:16:08] Voice 8: the awkwardness of a group that has a you know a rudimentary understanding of how this thing works

[0:16:14] Voice 8: without the experts sitting at the table.

[0:16:16] Voice 8: But we got three, and I saw three out of five,

[0:16:20] Voice 8: so we got the majority.

[0:16:21] Voice 8: I would suggest that perhaps we look at not advancing

[0:16:24] Voice 8: number four, number five to a trust council

[0:16:28] Voice 8: because it doesn't work.

[0:16:35] Voice 11: Trustee Yates.

[0:16:37] Voice 13: Thank you, Chair Bernardo.

[0:16:39] Voice 13: Trustee Graham said exactly what I was going to say.

[0:16:44] Voice 13: I don't find number four and number five helpful guidelines

[0:16:48] Voice 13: at this point.

[0:16:53] Voice 12: Thank you.

[0:16:54] Voice 12: You'll notice I've put myself in the speaker's list.

[0:16:59] Voice 12: I try to be disciplined here myself.

[0:17:03] Voice 12: What I get out of Attorney Director Muggs' presentation,

[0:17:08] Voice 12: notwithstanding my eagerness that we adopt guidelines,

[0:17:11] Voice 12: is given where we're at in the stage for this fiscal year,

[0:17:19] Voice 12: subject to what people in the committee think,

[0:17:21] Voice 12: I just don't see any utility to trying to attempt to formally adopt any guidelines at this stage.

[0:17:27] Voice 12: You'll have heard Director Mobb say that staff applied one, two, with some ingenuity, you know, tweaking the language.

[0:17:36] Voice 12: And then number three was really not a guideline, but it's really more of a tool for trustees to engage in decision making.

[0:17:45] Voice 12: It's pretty clear that in order to turn anything into a guideline that's actually usable for the next fiscal year, more work will have to be done.

[0:17:54] Voice 12: And as I understand it, draft or guidelines, in fact, should be adopted at the same time as the principles at the beginning of the budget cycle.

[0:18:01] Voice 12: so my point here is uh i think the discussion we've had and the insights we've received from

[0:18:09] Voice 12: director mobs is useful i think and helpful for trustees today as aids about when we need to think

[0:18:18] Voice 12: about if we need to think about budget reductions and if they do end up informing part of our

[0:18:23] Voice 12: thinking well that just goes into the final budget which is then explained to trust council

[0:18:29] Voice 12: we don't have to adopt any rules, we just have to tell Trust Council this is how we got here

[0:18:35] Voice 12: and then next year we can deal with the guidelines. Anyhow that's where my thinking is at the moment.

[0:18:41] Voice 12: Trustee Evans.

[0:18:43] Voice 6: Thank you. From my perspective I've been looking back over the years

[0:18:49] Voice 6: as to what our previous year's spends were and if I go back to end of the fiscal year 2021

[0:18:57] Voice 6: 2021 are spent with $7.7 million. We're now looking at a budget of over $11 million. And

[0:19:04] Voice 6: that's four years later, that is a massive increase over a short period of time. So going

[0:19:11] Voice 6: to scenario number five, I think the intent here was rather than having us as a trustee,

[0:19:17] Voice 6: which I know is going to be a big part of this meeting, going through and hashing out

[0:19:23] Voice 6: items that are within the project side of it, which is about $800,000 worth.

[0:19:30] Voice 6: When there is an $11 million budget at stake, I think what we're asking is for the departments

[0:19:35] Voice 6: of staff to look at where they can make reductions, not leave it with the trustees to haggle over

[0:19:42] Voice 6: $800,000 worth and try to trim back there because that's not going to have much of an impact.

[0:19:47] Voice 6: The impact is going to come from the departments within staff's area.

[0:19:51] Voice 6: to make that's where we're going to get the biggest reduction um dollar amount so we really

[0:19:58] Voice 6: have to be uh cognizant when when we're when we're having these discussions all of our discussions

[0:20:03] Voice 6: are surrounding these projects but we have to have start having discussions about where the

[0:20:07] Voice 6: other 10 million dollars sits um and and i i do want to bring the conversation to that

[0:20:14] Voice 6: we have to have that discussion um so i don't really know how to have that discussion but we

[0:20:21] Voice 6: We had this scenario in here of asking the departments to have a cut.

[0:20:27] Voice 6: So I'm curious to get into seeing the areas that staff have put forward and how much of a reduction we can look at there.

[0:20:35] Voice 6: Because we've been having increases of like a million dollars each year, year over year for the past four years.

[0:20:41] Voice 6: It's not sustainable. And for us, we are only land use bylaws only.

[0:20:47] Voice 6: we don't have services. So where other municipalities have seen massive increases

[0:20:53] Voice 6: due to services because their costs have gone up, we don't have that. So we can't use that as an

[0:20:59] Voice 6: excuse to say that all the other municipalities have had double digit increases. That doesn't

[0:21:05] Voice 6: apply to us or it shouldn't apply to us. And if we are thinking that way, we have to take a good,

[0:21:11] Voice 6: hard look at why we're thinking that way. I also understand that our staff have had

[0:21:18] Voice 6: big salary increases and those are outside of our control but we do have to bring it back and take a

[0:21:23] Voice 6: look at what is within our purview to take a look at and where we can have a cut or reduction in

[0:21:30] Voice 6: spending so those are those are my sorry you know not not the as bluntly as i can put it thanks

[0:21:39] Voice 12: all right thank you trustee evans and of course um you know you go you have ray gone to the heart

[0:21:46] Voice 12: of the matter here but there is going to be an opportunity later today to have i think uh much

[0:21:52] Voice 12: of the type of discussion that you want to have i think that really is the focus of what today

[0:21:55] Voice 12: is all about trustee garrison uh

[0:21:58] Voice 10: thank you trustee evans i really like what you have to say also a

[0:22:02] Voice 10: big thank you to director mobs i don't realize there's some great difficulties in the job that

[0:22:08] Voice 10: you do and you do it very well and you manage it very well uh you know regarding the the guidelines

[0:22:18] Voice 10: four and five or something that i i like um for a person like myself i feel they don't go far

[0:22:26] Voice 10: enough um i believe that um in the future we we could realize a decrease um it would mean some

[0:22:36] Voice 10: major cuts but i don't think that the communities or the island or the environment would suffer

[0:22:40] Voice 10: in any way shape or form and we would you know gain some popularity possibly

[0:22:47] Voice 10: with some of the public but i'll leave it at that thank you the

[0:22:54] Voice 12: other trustee event have any

[0:22:55] Voice 12: comments about the briefing we've just had trustee bullard yeah

[0:23:03] Voice 17: i support everything that trustee

[0:23:05] Voice 17: Evan said I mean the rate at which the budget overall has increased is is pretty hard to

[0:23:11] Voice 17: be comfortable with however a specific question if we I think a couple of times we've discussed

[0:23:19] Voice 17: a reserve fund for IT infrastructure costs I think Trustee Elliot brought it up first I think

[0:23:28] Voice 17: it's a really good idea and I looked I was thinking about even the local trust sorry the

[0:23:35] Voice 17: local whatever they're called projects for the local trust committees and that is funded kind of

[0:23:44] Voice 17: by serendipity you know money that's left over and then we dip into it the following year should we

[0:23:51] Voice 17: we be considering funding both of those or two funds like that systematically to smooth

[0:24:00] Voice 17: out the lean years and the high spend years? And if we did that, would those rules, whatever

[0:24:10] Voice 17: you call them, fit within the guidelines or within the budget assumptions and principles?

[0:24:17] Voice 17: Thanks.

[0:24:18] Voice 17: I

[0:24:22] Voice 7: can respond to that. The creation of any reserve fund is at the purview of Trust Council.

[0:24:33] Voice 7: We can absolutely establish a reserve fund for the purpose of funding technology over the longer

[0:24:40] Voice 7: term. What typically happens with the reserve fund, it would be created and seed money would

[0:24:47] Voice 7: be applied into that reserve fund so that there is an opening balance. Over time, Trust Council,

[0:24:54] Voice 7: as part of the budget cycle, would determine how much they want to deposit into that reserve fund

[0:24:59] Voice 7: at any given point in the year, and that would potentially build up your reserve so that when

[0:25:05] Voice 7: you have a significant outlay related to technology upgrades, you draw that funding out of

[0:25:09] Voice 7: reserve and it does not impact taxation. That is absolutely a tool that's at Trust Council's

[0:25:15] Voice 7: disposal to help smooth taxation in relation to that type of work. The local trust committee

[0:25:21] Voice 7: projects, I think was the second question. Is that correct? So we already have a local trust

[0:25:28] Voice 7: committee project specific reserve fund. That reserve fund is funded primarily from general

[0:25:36] Voice 7: revenue surplus. So if we have excess surplus monies in the general revenue or general revenue

[0:25:44] Voice 7: new surplus funds. And we need to be bolstering the balance that's in the LTC project specific

[0:25:50] Voice 7: reserve funds. There is usually a transfer that takes place. There are calculations that staff

[0:25:56] Voice 7: undertake throughout the budget cycle to see if there's enough in the LTC reserve fund to fund

[0:26:01] Voice 7: the next year's LTC projects. And if there's not, there is an assumed transfer that will happen.

[0:26:07] Voice 7: And we see it built into the five-year financial plan bylaw. So Trust Council is seeing those and

[0:26:11] Voice 7: approving those on an annual basis. It is not following currently the practice of having

[0:26:19] Voice 7: regular deposits into that account to fund future plans, local trust committee projects.

[0:26:25] Voice 7: In order to do that, we would need to have a much more far reaching plan to understand what LTC

[0:26:32] Voice 7: projects might be coming forward, you know, in year two, three, four, five, you know, into the

[0:26:36] Voice 7: future to take that approach. Certainly doable. I don't know that we've got that information

[0:26:41] Voice 7: currently.

[0:26:42] Voice 17: Thank you. I think that really speaks to, you know, what generally and the regional

[0:26:48] Voice 17: planning committee would like to aim for, which is a longer term plan for all of those projects,

[0:26:54] Voice 17: because they all have to be done. And at regional planning, there's a matrix now of the state of

[0:27:02] Voice 17: of each, you know, OCP, LUB and recommendations will arise from that.

[0:27:09] Voice 17: So, but I would recommend that there should be a more, what's the word, a more organized

[0:27:19] Voice 17: approach to that than just dipping into the surplus as and when needed, because I think

[0:27:26] Voice 17: would provide clarity to everybody and really help everyone kind of consist understand and

[0:27:32] Voice 17: consistently plan thanks thanks for that gm thank

[0:27:37] Voice 12: you trustee larkham audio right

[0:27:46] Trustee Luckham: so uh thank you

[0:27:48] Trustee Luckham: sorry for the mute um i just wanted to reflect on a couple of uh thoughts for us to consider as we

[0:27:54] Trustee Luckham: advance here um uh in light of the remarks about uh increased to 11 million dollar budget over

[0:28:01] Trustee Luckham: four years and certainly won't deny that that's what's happening. And the fact that I think large

[0:28:10] Trustee Luckham: increases to staff salaries is something that's impacted our budget as well. Just want to note

[0:28:17] Trustee Luckham: two things that we have received quite a bit of grant money in recent years, which has certainly

[0:28:21] Trustee Luckham: pushed up that overall spend. And the salary adjustments that have happened are, well,

[0:28:29] Trustee Luckham: Well, non-discretionary, that was recognized, but is as a result of provincial government conservatism in previous years where there were wage freezes and the like,

[0:28:40] Trustee Luckham: and is only bringing staff's compensation up to levels that are appropriate in today's financial environment.

[0:28:51] Trustee Luckham: So I just want to reflect on that, and of course, noting that PSA compensation is often

[0:28:58] Trustee Luckham: less than what it is in equivalent municipal or regional governments.

[0:29:02] Trustee Luckham: So I just want to acknowledge that as we're thinking about where we're trying to save

[0:29:08] Trustee Luckham: money.

[0:29:09] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:29:10] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Elliott.

[0:29:13] Voice 19: Thank you.

[0:29:14] Voice 19: So continuing with the guidelines discussion and sort of what Trustee Luckham was saying,

[0:29:20] Voice 19: The three restricted grants that we received this past year, if you look at page 40, the Provincial Restricted Grant for First Nations Engagement, the Housing Legislation Implementation, Local Government Climate Action, oh, actually five, Complete Communities and the Species at Risk.

[0:29:42] Voice 19: So three of those are new this year, if I'm not mistaken. And wouldn't it make sense to have a guideline that says in line with, you know, increased income activities that

[0:30:00] Voice 19: support First Nations engagement, climate action, and the housing legislation implementation

[0:30:08] Voice 19: would absolutely move to the top of the list. So I'm not suggesting, and maybe this could be a

[0:30:18] Voice 19: lens, like whatever draft budget we adopt, if there's one or two other alternate scenarios,

[0:30:24] Voice 19: like Director Mobb said that we could put forward

[0:30:28] Voice 19: or sort of saw spots where reductions could be had,

[0:30:32] Voice 19: I would suggest that those are sort of hard budget items

[0:30:38] Voice 19: that should not be reduced because we actually have income

[0:30:40] Voice 19: or we have revenue for them.

[0:30:45] Voice 12: Thank you.

[0:30:46] Voice 12: Trustee Harris.

[0:30:50] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:30:51] Voice 10: In regards to some comments made about staff salary increases,

[0:30:57] Voice 10: I, you know, I'm a proponent of staff being paid what they're worth.

[0:31:04] Voice 10: I wouldn't suggest that we should cut salaries, but possibly there will need to be a conversation at some point that, you know, maybe we will have to be a cut in staff numbers.

[0:31:17] Voice 10: Maybe there are, we have too many projects happening that really aren't giving us any bang for our buck.

[0:31:22] Voice 10: and so you know I'm a proponent of staffing paid what what they're what

[0:31:29] Voice 10: they're worth as well as trustees I'll leave it at that thank you thank you

[0:31:37] Voice 12: it's getting past 11 o'clock and I think we need to bring this part of the

[0:31:44] Voice 12: discussion to a close I do have some comments of my own here which is with

[0:31:49] Voice 12: respect to reductions for this upcoming budget that we're working on and we'll

[0:31:53] Voice 12: work on very shortly in that respect we're largely in staff's hands in terms of getting

[0:31:59] Voice 12: guidance in terms of finding soft spots with respect to these guidelines generally as i

[0:32:05] Voice 12: mentioned before they're not developed and the timing isn't right in order to formally adopt them

[0:32:13] Voice 12: but i think it is very helpful because out of this discussion you can see that what's emerging

[0:32:21] Voice 12: Charging are some big picture concerns, even principles, if you want to call it that, but

[0:32:26] Voice 12: they're really all orbiting around the question of getting a grip on spending and priorities

[0:32:35] Voice 12: and also considering the proportion of revenue that we get from the provincial government.

[0:32:41] Voice 12: That's an important factor here.

[0:32:44] Voice 12: Trust Council's committed to corporate planning, and corporate planning, I think, is where

[0:32:48] Voice 12: these questions and problems get answered.

[0:32:50] Voice 12: And I think we should consider this discussion we've had as kind of early notice to ourselves, but also to, frankly, FPC Working Group and Director Mobbs, that after we've dealt with this year's budget, you know, starting in May or next meeting, FPC needs to start working and help, ideally, with the advice of Director Mobbs and the FPC Working Group.

[0:33:15] Voice 12: uh we need some recommendations about what kind of adjustments we need to make to our practices

[0:33:21] Voice 12: on fbc uh and how we proceed so that we are uh that we fit into the corporate planning process

[0:33:29] Voice 12: right i'm talking about the nuts and bolts part of it because many of the questions that we're

[0:33:35] Voice 12: talking about now uh may get answered in the course of the strategic planning discussions

[0:33:39] Voice 12: that precede financial planning getting its grip on the budget

[0:33:46] Voice 12: that gets developed under corporate planning.

[0:33:49] Voice 12: So I'll just leave that thought with FPC Working Group and Director Mobs

[0:33:53] Voice 12: that really FPC generally is going to be needing some kind of advice

[0:33:58] Voice 12: from you guys about how to adapt our practices

[0:34:01] Voice 12: so that they dovetail into corporate planning going forward.

[0:34:05] Voice 12: But that's for the future.

[0:34:06] Voice 12: future. And I think I'm going to conclude this discussion and hopefully it will inform what we

[0:34:15] Voice 12: do next. And if we can please have the agenda up on the screen again. We are now very much into

[0:34:23] Voice 12: the heart of the matter. And I'm going to turn the floor back to Director Mobbs, who's going to

[0:34:31] Voice 12: talk about budget changes since the last review. Thanks,

[0:34:37] Voice 7: Chair. So as usual, we always provide a

[0:34:42] Voice 7: briefing to the committee to understand changes that have happened to the draft budget since it

[0:34:47] Voice 7: was last looked at. So this report is reflecting changes to the draft budget since the January

[0:34:53] Voice 7: version of the budget. So the committee did not review that budget at the meeting itself. However,

[0:34:58] Voice 7: the materials were in the agenda package. And so it's assumed that they were reviewed. And so the

[0:35:04] Voice 7: changes reflected in this report are since that time. On an overall summary basis, we've seen

[0:35:09] Voice 7: revenues decreased by $41,000. That is primarily due to a change in taxation. So we've seen the

[0:35:20] Voice 7: local trust area tax move from 9.7% down to 7.75%. The Bowen Island municipal tax levy has shifted

[0:35:29] Voice 7: from $411 down to $404. We have seen some shifts as well in the planned revenues for application

[0:35:37] Voice 7: fees and that's due to a revised volume assumption. So the Director of Planning

[0:35:43] Voice 7: has had a look at the volume trends in applications for planning and has

[0:35:46] Voice 7: adjusted the estimates based on that. We've also increased our investment

[0:35:51] Voice 7: income assuming that interest rates will remain fairly high. We are expecting to

[0:35:56] Voice 7: see them come down through the course of next year but we are expecting them to

[0:35:59] Voice 7: remain fairly high such that we were able to increase revenue there. Total

[0:36:04] Voice 7: Total spending has increased in the budget to $11.1 million, as has been previously mentioned.

[0:36:12] Voice 7: Some key drivers have been listed on page 25 of the briefing.

[0:36:15] Voice 7: So we're seeing an increase in software and support licensing, local trust committee meeting expenses, and I'll talk about that a little bit further in the report.

[0:36:23] Voice 7: Of course, the $75,000 has been added to recruitment.

[0:36:27] Voice 7: That's to fund that recruitment for a new CAO.

[0:36:31] Voice 7: We have seen $16,000 increase in training-related budgets as well.

[0:36:36] Voice 7: LTC project increases of $85,000, an increase in Trust Council and Conservancy projects of $48,000, and computer hardware, an increase in $10,000.

[0:36:46] Voice 7: And we've got details about why those increases have been incorporated further in the report.

[0:36:51] Voice 7: Changes to revenues and changes to spending, of course, drive changes in the planned amounts of surplus that we need to balance the budget.

[0:36:59] Voice 7: So the budget shortfall has moved from $502,000 to $714,000.

[0:37:04] Voice 7: And so we are drawing out additional monies from surplus and reserve to fund that shortfall.

[0:37:10] Voice 7: The draw from the General Revenue Surplus Fund has increased from $210,000 to $422,000.

[0:37:17] Voice 7: We are seeing a draw from the LTC Project Reserve Fund of $219,000.

[0:37:23] Voice 7: There's no change there from the previous budget version.

[0:37:25] Voice 7: And there's also been the addition of $73,000 as an assumed draw from the SWPA Reserve Fund.

[0:37:33] Voice 7: That's to pay for three proposed projects that are related to SWPA coming from the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee.

[0:37:41] Voice 7: So I can go into the details of all of the changes if the committee wishes for me to do so.

[0:37:49] Voice 7: If committee members have read this report and don't see that there's value in digging into the details,

[0:37:53] Voice 7: I can create some additional space for conversation

[0:37:57] Voice 7: instead of taking up airtime with going through the report.

[0:38:00] Voice 7: I'll leave that at the will of the committee and the chair.

[0:38:04] Voice 12: All right, thank you.

[0:38:06] Voice 12: And just as a point of clarity and a reminder to myself,

[0:38:09] Voice 12: that last remark you were talking about,

[0:38:11] Voice 12: the Salt Spring Water Project,

[0:38:13] Voice 12: the Special Tax Requisition Reserve Fund,

[0:38:16] Voice 12: am I correct in recalling that that fund is, in fact,

[0:38:20] Voice 12: funded by Salt Spring exclusively

[0:38:22] Voice 12: and it's not coming out of the other revenue?

[0:38:26] Voice 7: That's right.

[0:38:27] Voice 7: So what this reserve fund is, it is the sum total of all unspent monies from the special Salt Spring Island local tax requisition that is collected only in the Salt Spring Island local trust area.

[0:38:40] Voice 7: There are limitations on how that money can be used, and you'll see a report in the FPC agenda package specifically related to that.

[0:38:49] Voice 7: That reserve fund, those monies can only be spent on work that they were meant for.

[0:38:55] Voice 7: So the special taxation was meant to fund coordination activities in relation to SWPA under Delegation Bylaw 154.

[0:39:04] Voice 7: And so any planned projects should also be falling under that same definition.

[0:39:09] Voice 7: We do have a report in the agenda package where the Director of Planning and the Director of Legislative Services have put forward their thoughts on that.

[0:39:16] Voice 7: And ultimately, it will be the decision of Trust Council to allow funding from that reserve fund or not.

[0:39:20] Voice 7: And

[0:39:21] Voice 12: so where we're standing right now is that we're looking at a $714,000 shortfall, of which it's going to be managed by moving funds around from various surpluses and reserves.

[0:39:37] Voice 12: serves but we're also looking uh it sounds like uh as you opened this discussion uh with with

[0:39:44] Voice 12: the conclusion that we're looking as as it stands now we're looking at a 7.75 percent increase uh

[0:39:51] Voice 12: that's what that's what the budget is now contemplating uh unless we do something about

[0:39:56] Voice 12: that is that right that's correct thank you trustee harris you had your hand up

[0:40:03] Voice 10: yeah and i'm

[0:40:04] Voice 10: i'm reluctant to speak because um just just a short note on the swipa and um salt spring island

[0:40:11] Voice 10: funding that and this is why i'm reluctant to speak i apologize profusely i'm i'm forgetting

[0:40:18] Voice 10: the name of the small island right next to us that is included in that um uh special tax requisition

[0:40:25] Voice 10: and a number of those people from that island are very concerned with them being included

[0:40:29] Voice 10: included on the in that special tax requisition and what that does not affect them on their small

[0:40:35] Voice 10: island just wanted to add that thank

[0:40:38] Voice 12: you thank you that's noted for the record we have a point

[0:40:41] Voice 12: um the trust or tractor mobs um unless at this juncture any other trustees have any inquiries

[0:40:47] Voice 12: so please carry on uh

[0:40:52] Voice 7: so you wish for me to go through the details well of the change

[0:40:56] Voice 7: i'm happy

[0:40:58] Voice 7: to do that

[0:40:59] Voice 12: perhaps i should ask ask the members of the committee whether they would like you to

[0:41:06] Voice 12: to go into any of the details before I ask you to do so.

[0:41:12] Voice 12: Apparently not.

[0:41:14] Voice 12: All right.

[0:41:15] Voice 12: I'm good.

[0:41:16] Voice 12: All right.

[0:41:17] Voice 12: Let's move on to item 7.3.

[0:41:22] Voice 7: Okay, so item 7.3 is where we begin to look

[0:41:30] Voice 7: at the sum total of all of the reports

[0:41:32] Voice 7: that are traveling to Trust Council

[0:41:34] Voice 7: for the budget session in March.

[0:41:37] Voice 7: So all of the reports in here include information

[0:41:43] Voice 7: that's in the budget so the budget overview and all of the business cases and summary reports

[0:41:48] Voice 7: we do intend to send forward a budget session outline which we typically do to trust council

[0:41:56] Voice 7: so that's on page 29 of the agenda package it gives an overview of what's planned for the budget

[0:42:03] Voice 7: session at trust council of course things can change as timing shifts at that council meeting

[0:42:08] Voice 7: But as it stands currently, I think we have about three to three, about three hours for the budget session, unless that has changed.

[0:42:20] Voice 7: And I would look to the CAO to let me know if there's been a change to that.

[0:42:23] Voice 7: Nope. That's great. So this is the plan.

[0:42:26] Voice 7: We do plan to give the chair of FPC a few minutes for an introduction, as usual.

[0:42:32] Voice 7: The CAO has a minute for some comments if he wishes.

[0:42:35] Voice 7: I'm hoping to take up only 15 minutes of Council's time going through the details of the budget.

[0:42:41] Voice 7: And then, of course, we leave the primary, you know, the most amount of time for our Trust Council to ask questions and to deliberate and to give direction for change if there is any.

[0:42:50] Voice 7: If the committee wishes to see a change to the budget session, we can receive that feedback and make that request to the Executive Committee, who will be looking at these things at their meeting next week.

[0:43:03] Voice 12: Well, personally, I don't see any need to change practices.

[0:43:05] Voice 12: this is please continue to wrap them up good

[0:43:09] Voice 7: uh okay so i'll just move through um the various

[0:43:14] Voice 7: materials then agenda item 7.3.2 is the budget assumptions and principles document this is the

[0:43:21] Voice 7: document that was approved by trust council at their september meeting at the start of the budget

[0:43:25] Voice 7: cycle there's nothing that's required for action with the committee with this report and there's

[0:43:30] Voice 7: nothing required for action from trust council when they see it it's just a reminder to trust

[0:43:34] Voice 7: council hey this is what you told us to uh incorporate in the budget um just for information

[0:43:41] Voice 7: sake so i won't uh spend much time there all

[0:43:46] Voice 12: right thank you agenda

[0:43:48] Voice 7: item 7.3.3 is the draft

[0:43:51] Voice 7: budget overview so this is the report that includes all information on all of the budget items

[0:43:58] Voice 7: and information or in all of the budget components uh it has been pointed out to me that the table

[0:44:04] Voice 7: on page 37 and 38 of the agenda package

[0:44:08] Voice 7: is omitting the Islands Trust Conservancy Board.

[0:44:11] Voice 7: So staff will be updating that table

[0:44:14] Voice 7: before it travels to Trust Council.

[0:44:17] Voice 7: This is the time for the committee

[0:44:19] Voice 7: to be giving direction to staff on this report.

[0:44:22] Voice 7: If you feel this report is lacking information

[0:44:24] Voice 7: that council should know about the budget,

[0:44:26] Voice 7: we can receive direction to make changes.

[0:44:28] Voice 7: If you found errors, we can fix those.

[0:44:31] Voice 7: But ultimately, this is the report

[0:44:33] Voice 7: that's traveling to Trust Council with the budget.

[0:44:35] Voice 7: if financial planning committee gives direction to staff for budget changes today we will make

[0:44:41] Voice 7: those changes to the budget we will update this report to reflect those changes um so again i can

[0:44:47] Voice 7: walk through um all of the detail in this report um it's it is something the committee has seen

[0:44:54] Voice 7: previously it's just got some updated information for recent changes um i'll leave that at the

[0:44:59] Voice 7: direction of the committee if you'd like me to go through that in detail

[0:45:01] Voice 7: Well,

[0:45:03] Voice 12: I'm going to ask the committee members, rather than have you walk through it all,

[0:45:07] Voice 12: as you say, it's the same form that we've seen before. I'm going to ask committee members

[0:45:14] Voice 12: whether they have any comments about what they've read in this draft overview. And as you've

[0:45:25] Voice 12: mentioned, whatever changes, if any, we agree upon today, we'll carry forward to this outline.

[0:45:33] Voice 12: line oh i see trustee bowen has her hand up just

[0:45:37] Voice 17: thinking back to um the discussion about tax

[0:45:41] Voice 17: increases and let's get it on the table so it would be helpful if and i think it's later on

[0:45:48] Voice 17: but it's on a line by line basis um uh what's funded by grants because um i know that uh you

[0:46:00] Voice 17: You know, we had a grant of $150,000 for First Nations engagement, but that's over five years.

[0:46:07] Voice 17: So, but it would be very helpful to just put even an approximate figure in that says,

[0:46:12] Voice 17: I personally feel that grant funding should push the budget down, but it is a reasonable thing to highlight here.

[0:46:22] Voice 17: Would that be possible, Julia? Thank you.

[0:46:27] Voice 7: Certainly possible. I will point you to Agenda Item 7.3.3, which is page 49 of the Agenda

[0:46:35] Voice 7: Package. It is a summary of the grants that are included in the draft budget. So it lists

[0:46:43] Voice 7: the grant by name and the dollar value and also a brief comment on what those grants

[0:46:49] Voice 7: are being paid for. Does that satisfy what you were considering?

[0:46:53] Voice 7: considering yes

[0:46:58] Voice 17: pretty much but i think when if it was not impossible or very difficult

[0:47:03] Voice 17: having a line item in that top level summary would make it um a handy way to see that

[0:47:13] Voice 17: because

[0:47:14] Voice 7: i understand in the yeah we

[0:47:16] Voice 17: talk about the tax you know the tax consequence

[0:47:20] Voice 17: and that's part of that you know that the tax consequence is reduced by that

[0:47:27] Voice 12: So, Trustee Boland, you're contemplating just a single item that says 833,000 or whatever of this is being funded by provincial grant funding, just basically in the first page, so people can see the relative proportion of things.

[0:47:43] Voice 17: Yeah, and as I said, it's kind of a, it's an element of, you know, calculating the tax draw that some is actually provided by funding, so that would be helpful, I think. Thank you.

[0:47:58] Voice 17: Thank

[0:47:58] Voice 12: you. Trustee Evans.

[0:48:01] Voice 6: Thank you. I'm just looking at the line by line chart and I do

[0:48:07] Voice 6: apologize. My laptop where I had prepared for this meeting died and I'm waiting for a replacement

[0:48:13] Voice 6: laptop. So I don't have all of my notes. So I am not as prepared as I'd like to be, but I'm trying

[0:48:19] Voice 6: to remember the items that I wanted to discuss. So if we go to page, let's see what page it is

[0:48:26] Voice 6: here uh 48 it's uh sort of at the top we've got the operating budget subtotal so for 2023 it was

[0:48:36] Voice 6: 8.2 million dollars and now for 24 25 we're you know just over 10 million dollars it's a two

[0:48:42] Voice 6: million dollar increase in expenses over two years um and i hate to to pop you on the spot here but

[0:48:52] Voice 6: Can you walk us through the increase there?

[0:48:58] Voice 6: And I mean, over last year, it was the forecast we've got at 8.9 million.

[0:49:03] Voice 6: So can you just walk us through how it's jumped up by a million per year in our expenses?

[0:49:13] Voice 6: And is there any area that was identified, like you said, as a soft spot where there's

[0:49:18] Voice 6: a potential for any reductions?

[0:49:24] Voice 6: Because I think that would be important to highlight now.

[0:49:30] Voice 7: Sure. I'll point you to page 39 of the agenda package.

[0:49:35] Voice 7: This is where we try to provide a high level summary of what I think you're looking for.

[0:49:41] Voice 7: So why are we seeing, what are the primary drivers of the increases to spending?

[0:49:48] Voice 7: So we have a column there that shows the increase or decrease, some of the more significant ones over the previous year budget.

[0:49:56] Voice 7: budget. And then we also have a column that shows increases or decreases over the current year

[0:50:02] Voice 7: forecast. And these are the primary drivers of the change. And so we've highlighted those here.

[0:50:09] Voice 7: So the biggest driver, as we can see, is salaries and benefits. So it's been mentioned before,

[0:50:16] Voice 7: we have seen more significant increases for all staff in recent years to keep a pace with

[0:50:23] Voice 7: inflation. That's been the primary driver of those increases. We've also seen some new staff

[0:50:29] Voice 7: positions approved. So last year, we had three new staff positions approved. Again, for the draft

[0:50:36] Voice 7: budget being put forward, I believe there's three new staff positions there as well. So both of

[0:50:41] Voice 7: those factors are playing a role in increasing those figures. When our salaries expense typically

[0:50:48] Voice 7: typically makes up 50 to I think it's about 60% of the draft budget. So if we are seeing

[0:50:54] Voice 7: a 7% increase in salaries expense, for example, 60% of that is going to be reflected in the tax

[0:51:03] Voice 7: increase, not including the impact of draws from surplus. So there's a 7% increase in salaries,

[0:51:09] Voice 7: we would expect that to have a three and a half percent impact on taxation. So that can have a

[0:51:15] Voice 7: significant effect on what we're seeing in terms of increases. We also are seeing, of course,

[0:51:23] Voice 7: there's an increase for recruitment, as I mentioned, for the CAO recruitment. We're seeing

[0:51:28] Voice 7: some significant increases in software support and licensing. A lot of that is due to new software

[0:51:33] Voice 7: that's being implemented. So this year we're implementing the CityView software. It does have

[0:51:38] Voice 7: a fairly significant price tag for annual ongoing maintenance. I believe that's $30,000 or $40,000

[0:51:43] Voice 7: dollars a year. So that's a new cost. Of course, next year, we've got the conversion to Microsoft

[0:51:48] Voice 7: 365. We've waited a long time for that, and we are due. And so that's got a significant price tag

[0:51:54] Voice 7: associated with it as well. Technical support costs are increasing, of course, as we undertake

[0:52:00] Voice 7: tech-related projects. We do lean into our external support team for that work. We also,

[0:52:07] Voice 7: of course, as staff salaries increase, we see salaries increase in other industries. And so

[0:52:12] Voice 7: So those vendors are passing on the increases to us and we're seeing per hour cost increases

[0:52:18] Voice 7: for those types of things.

[0:52:21] Voice 7: I think those are the most significant ones that we see.

[0:52:24] Voice 7: Trustee remuneration is listed there as well.

[0:52:27] Voice 7: Of course, we see increases to that typically in line with inflation as well as changes

[0:52:32] Voice 7: in folios.

[0:52:33] Voice 7: So I think that's a good summary.

[0:52:35] Voice 7: Does that answer the first part of your question?

[0:52:39] Voice 6: Yeah, the first part.

[0:52:40] Voice 6: um and i mean these numbers have taken into account the grants received etc etc right

[0:52:46] Voice 6: and and

[0:52:49] Voice 20: the stuff that

[0:52:50] Voice 6: was already in surplus or from the carryover from the previous year

[0:52:53] Voice 6: like for example the

[0:52:58] Voice 6: um i start that the um uh the salt spring island work um that is

[0:53:06] Voice 6: being carried over those are monies that were set aside in the previous budget and they're

[0:53:10] Voice 6: being carried over into this budget they're not an increase they

[0:53:15] Voice 7: will be contributing what you see

[0:53:17] Voice 7: is the overall increase in spending um they of course are in the project budget so not in the

[0:53:23] Voice 7: operational i think we were looking primarily at that 10 million or 11 million in the operational

[0:53:27] Voice 7: side of things um so those are in the project side when we're looking just at spending year

[0:53:32] Voice 7: over year spent when we talk just about spending it isn't thinking about what is paying for the

[0:53:38] Voice 7: spending. So that sort of comes next as a separate topic. So we do see an increase in those project

[0:53:45] Voice 7: budgets. And that's just based purely on what comes forward from local trust committees. And

[0:53:49] Voice 7: you're correct, much of that is funded from grants and from surplus.

[0:53:55] Voice 6: And then the second half of my

[0:53:58] Voice 6: question was, you'd mentioned before that there had been some identification of soft spots where

[0:54:03] Voice 6: there could be potential room for some reductions. Could you walk us through some of those? Is this

[0:54:09] Voice 6: the appropriate time and place?

[0:54:13] Voice 7: I'm happy to do that if the committee wishes to do that now.

[0:54:18] Voice 12: Go ahead. Trustee Evans has asked the question, so this is what we're here for.

[0:54:22] Voice 7: So management team, I did sit together recently to sort of look at the budgets. Directors,

[0:54:30] Voice 7: of course, look at their individual department budgets, and we sit together as a team

[0:54:33] Voice 7: to look at some of the areas that we might be able to reduce the budget. And Nancy,

[0:54:40] Voice 7: see that was emailed over to you if you're able to pull that up we'll be able to see it on screen

[0:54:46] Voice 7: as part of this exercise we did have a look at the budget reduction work that was completed I

[0:54:54] Voice 7: believe in 2020 there was a significant amount of work that staff undertook to look at the draft

[0:54:59] Voice 7: budget and see what areas could potentially be reduced it was a holistic look it looked at

[0:55:06] Voice 7: operations. It looked at, well, primarily operations, a little bit at political work,

[0:55:13] Voice 7: acknowledging that that's a tough space for staff to wade into. So we went through that list to

[0:55:18] Voice 7: make sure that we were being fulsome in our assessment. Much of what was on that list

[0:55:21] Voice 7: identified in 2020 has already been implemented, which limits the options for the current budget

[0:55:29] Voice 7: cycle. So I'll just wait for this to be pulled up on screen and then we can walk

[0:55:39] Voice 7: through it. We still see the agenda package Nancy, we don't see the Excel

[0:55:44] Voice 7: document.

[0:55:46] Voice 5: I'm not sure why but I can't open my email. Is it something that

[0:55:51] Voice 5: Robert can put in the WebDAV folder and I can just grab it from there? I can. Or

[0:56:08] Voice 7: maybe I'll ask one of the other directors to take care of that. It's been emailed out to every one

[0:56:11] Voice 7: of them, and then I can just start the conversation. I see Russ on screen. Are you able to

[0:56:17] Voice 7: talk about that, Russ? Thumbs up. Thank you. Teamwork. So we have, as I said, we've taken a

[0:56:24] Voice 7: fairly holistic approach. We have looked at operational items as well as some political

[0:56:31] Voice 7: projects. Of course, not making any changes, leaving that within the realm of the politicians

[0:56:35] Voice 7: to decide. One of the things that's been identified is looking at our co-op students. So

[0:56:41] Voice 7: the planning services team always brings on a co-op student. It helps significantly to alleviate

[0:56:48] Voice 7: with, you know, the staff that are taking vacations and work that gets displaced because of that.

[0:56:53] Voice 7: It also helps build relationships with students that often will turn into future employment and

[0:57:00] Voice 7: and help us identify staff that are good to bring on

[0:57:04] Voice 7: as part of the team.

[0:57:05] Voice 7: So it's not ideal to remove that position from the budget.

[0:57:08] Voice 7: However, it's been identified as a softer spot.

[0:57:12] Voice 7: There's contingency funding that's in the budget $5,000.

[0:57:15] Voice 7: We acknowledge that contingencies that take place

[0:57:18] Voice 7: in the year can be funded from surplus.

[0:57:20] Voice 7: So it's just a different way of addressing contingent

[0:57:23] Voice 7: spending that comes up in the year.

[0:57:26] Voice 7: So that's a potential reduction.

[0:57:27] Voice 18: reduction.

[0:57:29] Voice 7: The Islands Trust Conservancy has $18,000 for ecosystem mapping. Deferral of this

[0:57:37] Voice 7: work is achievable next fiscal year. So there's a lot of work that's happening within the Conservancy

[0:57:43] Voice 7: increase in land that's being managed and the complexities around that. So deferring the work

[0:57:49] Voice 7: associated with ecosystem mapping is achievable as staff do have plenty of other work to focus on.

[0:57:55] Voice 7: We've suggested a $3,000 reduction in office supplies, fairly arbitrary number.

[0:58:00] Voice 7: We would simply look to shift office culture around spending in that area to make that achievable.

[0:58:07] Voice 7: The Galliano trustee office is something that should be looked at.

[0:58:11] Voice 7: Again, that's a political decision.

[0:58:13] Voice 7: I have surveyed the Galliano LTC to see if local trustees in the chair are making use of that space.

[0:58:20] Voice 7: One trustee is using that space two to three times a week.

[0:58:24] Voice 7: or one to three times a week I don't recall if it was one to two or two to three the other trustee

[0:58:29] Voice 7: is not using that space at all the chair of the local trust committee does make use of that space

[0:58:34] Voice 7: when he's on the island for meetings and so that's something that's the political decision

[0:58:39] Voice 7: we put it on this list for consideration trust council did decide to hold all their meetings

[0:58:45] Voice 7: electron or in person next fiscal year it is a can be a softer spot to reduce the budget by

[0:58:51] Voice 7: by holding one of those meetings electronically.

[0:58:54] Voice 7: Again, that's a political decision

[0:58:55] Voice 7: that would require direction from Trust Council.

[0:58:58] Voice 7: It's been identified here for consideration.

[0:59:01] Voice 7: Trust Council programming related to stewardship education

[0:59:04] Voice 7: and history and heritage grants and aid

[0:59:06] Voice 7: has collective funding of $25,000 in next year's budget.

[0:59:11] Voice 7: It would be a political decision

[0:59:12] Voice 7: to remove funding for these programs.

[0:59:15] Voice 7: It reduces workload for staff to some degree,

[0:59:18] Voice 7: however, also would have an impact on the communities.

[0:59:21] Voice 7: And so that's definitely a political decision, but could be considered.

[0:59:26] Voice 7: If I'm not mistaken, I believe history and heritage grants and aid did not have funding in the current year's budget.

[0:59:32] Voice 7: So we do have a bit of precedent for that one.

[0:59:37] Voice 7: Communications could be reduced by about $10,000.

[0:59:40] Voice 7: This would impact the opportunities that are available to communicate about trust initiatives out to communities.

[0:59:48] Voice 7: So not desirable, but if that's something that council is willing to work with, then we could reduce communications by some dollar amount.

[0:59:58] Voice 7: There's a proposed reduction.

[1:00:00] Voice 7: for the salt spring island office location this number is not really grounded in any analysis

[1:00:04] Voice 7: it's very arbitrary um it was more of a hoped for than an actual um we you know have done some work

[1:00:12] Voice 7: over whether or not this dollar figure is is reasonable um it's there for just as a thought

[1:00:17] Voice 7: process uh there's two local trust committee projects that are on the list both of them are

[1:00:23] Voice 7: for salt spring uh they are here primarily acknowledging there's been a significant

[1:00:27] Voice 7: Kintz grant funding that's been received by the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee

[1:00:31] Voice 7: and so that's additional work that will be taking place next fiscal year and the work that is being

[1:00:37] Voice 7: funded by grants is slated to take place in advance of these two projects and so there is

[1:00:44] Voice 7: consideration that these two projects may be able to be deferred. Again that's not something that

[1:00:51] Voice 7: the Local Trust Committee has laid into that's simply a consideration that's come forward from

[1:00:57] Voice 7: the planning team also very much a political decision. If all of these were implemented,

[1:01:03] Voice 7: we'd be looking at about a 3.2% reduction in taxation. That does assume that we are redirecting

[1:01:10] Voice 7: any surplus that is saved from not funding these projects. So some of these projects,

[1:01:17] Voice 7: I think maybe stewardship, the Salt Spring Island office relocation, for example,

[1:01:20] Voice 7: is funded from surplus so if we remove funding out of fifty thousand dollars for that work it does not

[1:01:27] Voice 7: impact taxation unless we take that fifty thousand dollars and apply it to other work and fund work

[1:01:35] Voice 7: that's now funded by taxation funded by surplus instead uh so that's high level i'm happy to take

[1:01:42] Voice 7: questions on anything you see here

[1:01:44] Voice 20: am

[1:01:47] Voice 12: i correct uh in observing that operation like i'm looking

[1:01:52] Voice 12: at all these items but in terms of what would affect staff operationally we're looking at the

[1:02:00] Voice 12: co-op student line item office supplies and maybe communications is that fair

[1:02:12] Voice 7: yes i think that's

[1:02:14] Voice 7: fair certainly some of the other items that are being removed would have an impact on the work

[1:02:19] Voice 7: that staff is doing um i think you're probably referring to a negative impact correct that's

[1:02:26] Voice 12: right thank you for drawing things i'm talking about whether you know you have a shopping list

[1:02:31] Voice 12: of potential reductions here but i'm just trying to identify the ones that uh have the potential

[1:02:38] Voice 12: to have a negative impact on staff operations day to day not too sure about the office supply thing

[1:02:45] Voice 12: you know but uh i i can see this i can see the co-op student issue um the communications issue

[1:02:53] Voice 12: is really more it's probably less about staff than about the profile of the organization

[1:02:57] Voice 12: anyhow sorry uh trustee peterson uh man yeah

[1:03:02] Voice 12: thank you i just right sorry i'm sorry trustee

[1:03:04] Voice 12: mobs yeah our director month hey

[1:03:07] Voice 7: i'll take the promotion um trust

[1:03:10] Voice 12: me you are correct

[1:03:12] Voice 7: you are correct in what you say some of these um you know will sort of have a negative impact to

[1:03:18] Voice 7: the operations when we do see a negative impact to some things or you know reduction in in funding

[1:03:24] Voice 7: for communications that does have an indirect impact on staff uh if there's less communications

[1:03:31] Voice 7: out to community and we're not able to communicate on things that are of importance that can create

[1:03:35] Voice 7: you know stir up and difficulty in the community which then just ends up coming back to staff hey

[1:03:40] Voice 7: hey, you need to send out an emergent news release

[1:03:43] Voice 7: or you have to address all these other issues

[1:03:44] Voice 7: that have come up

[1:03:45] Voice 7: because there was no proactive work done to prevent it.

[1:03:48] Voice 7: So in some of these instances,

[1:03:50] Voice 7: there is an indirect impact on staff.

[1:03:53] Voice 12: Right, kind of a rebound effect.

[1:03:55] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson.

[1:03:56] Voice 12: That's right.

[1:03:58] Voice 4: Yeah, thank you.

[1:03:59] Voice 4: So first of all, I just wanted to add

[1:04:02] Voice 4: in terms of the Galliano office,

[1:04:07] Voice 4: just for everyone's information

[1:04:08] Voice 4: that staff also use that space.

[1:04:10] Voice 4: I don't have a clear picture of exactly how often it's used, but I know it is used by staff for meeting with constituents and stuff, too.

[1:04:22] Voice 4: So that's just a point of information.

[1:04:26] Voice 4: As far as the Salzburg Island projects, you know, it's fantastic that we have received the granting.

[1:04:38] Voice 4: granting um but to me i actually don't see those uh you know the budget uh amounts in the in the

[1:04:46] Voice 4: local trust committee projects as as being um uh an appropriate place to cut in terms of

[1:04:54] Voice 20: the

[1:04:55] Voice 4: work that needs to happen on salt spring we do have staffing issues that's not something we

[1:05:00] Voice 4: can address um as the financial planning committee i think in terms of that but that's that's

[1:05:05] Voice 4: important work to to be done and i would sort of push back against that notion so thank you

[1:05:10] Voice 4: i

[1:05:11] Voice 12: asked trustee peterson how that funding affects staffing whether that funding is removed that what

[1:05:19] Voice 12: looks like an extra 86 000 if that gets pulled out how does that affect staffing uh

[1:05:24] Voice 4: it it doesn't it

[1:05:25] Voice 4: doesn't and i wasn't saying that it did sir but uh that that the the staffing levels are do affect

[1:05:32] Voice 4: effect the speed at which the progress of the projects. That was my only point about the

[1:05:38] Voice 4: staffing.

[1:05:39] Voice 12: All right, thank you. Trustee Patrick?

[1:05:44] Trustee Patrick: Yes, I would encourage that we avoid removing

[1:05:48] Trustee Patrick: Salt Spring. These projects were funded and taxed for last year, not one dollar spent this year.

[1:05:55] Trustee Patrick: Goose egg, zero. Maybe there's some conversations that need to be occurred as to why that has

[1:06:01] Trustee Patrick: this happened. The grant funds were available this year, and it's shaping up to look like not

[1:06:08] Trustee Patrick: $1 of that will be spent this year either. So, Salt Spring needs to do work seriously soon,

[1:06:18] Trustee Patrick: and we need to figure out how. Maybe we need to hire staff with this money, I'm not sure,

[1:06:22] Trustee Patrick: or consultants, but I really encourage you not to look at the Salt Spring dollars,

[1:06:29] Trustee Patrick: because like you said, they aren't affecting the bottom line

[1:06:32] Trustee Patrick: because they've already been taxed.

[1:06:36] Voice 12: Greg Dermontz, is that correct?

[1:06:40] Voice 7: That is correct.

[1:06:41] Voice 7: And those particular projects are funded

[1:06:43] Voice 7: from the local trust committee reserve fund.

[1:06:46] Voice 7: So reallocation of those funds,

[1:06:49] Voice 7: if they were not to be spent this year,

[1:06:50] Voice 7: would be much less likely.

[1:06:53] Voice 7: The dollars would remain in the reserve fund

[1:06:55] Voice 7: for future spending, if that was desirable.

[1:06:58] Voice 7: But Trustee Patrick is correct.

[1:07:00] Voice 7: They were taxed for in the current year

[1:07:02] Voice 7: and have not been spent.

[1:07:04] Voice 12: So, here's my question for you, Director Mods, is that $86,500 that's put down there, I mean, the line item there says it's a political decision, reasonable to defer given new work planned for under new grant.

[1:07:18] Voice 12: And we've heard from Trustee Patrick and Trustee Peterson reluctance to see this work not done.

[1:07:30] Voice 12: But I guess I'm asking how staff reached the conclusion that 86.5 was potentially available for a deferral.

[1:07:43] Voice 12: It's not really an absolute cut.

[1:07:45] Voice 12: I mean, what I'm getting at here, is staff anticipating that it's just not likely that this work is going to get, that the village area plan is going to get done this year, and that we might as well just leave the money in the reserve?

[1:07:58] Voice 12: I mean, is that what you're getting at here?

[1:08:03] Voice 7: The CAO is frantically waving.

[1:08:08] Voice 12: We'll get to CAO, but I asked the question of Director Mobs, and we'll get to you next.

[1:08:13] Voice 12: next? Sure.

[1:08:16] Voice 7: So I can, I can offer my thoughts and insights. Honestly, I think the director of

[1:08:22] Voice 7: planning is, you know, most intimately involved in, you know, allocating the resources of the

[1:08:30] Voice 7: planning team and understands this best. From what I understand, the grant funds that have

[1:08:35] Voice 7: been received in the current year are funding work that should be taking place in advance of

[1:08:42] Voice 7: of the work that's listed on the screen.

[1:08:47] Voice 7: And so if there is an expectation that the grant,

[1:08:51] Voice 7: the work funded by grants could take up the whole year

[1:08:54] Voice 7: then we may not get to the rest of the project.

[1:08:58] Voice 7: The director has put forward a feasibility assessment

[1:09:00] Voice 7: which looks at staff resourcing against LTC projects.

[1:09:06] Voice 7: So he's definitely best positioned to speak to this

[1:09:08] Voice 7: and I would suggest we get his insights.

[1:09:10] Voice 7: Thank

[1:09:11] Voice 12: you. I see that we have trustees with their hands up, but also the CEO wanted to weigh in on this.

[1:09:18] Voice 12: And I'm going to go to the CEO first because he may well have some insights that are highly relevant to the point.

[1:09:25] Voice 15: Well, almost I always do. So when we go to a subject matter expert, we would turn to the director, Director Cermak.

[1:09:34] Voice 15: He can provide the insights associated with the rationale for one thing going forward or not.

[1:09:40] Voice 15: Generally, that is the case. It's just when we see that question mark, it's a significant amount of work that's planned for the coming year. It's a $200,000 plus. The premise, if they're all in the agenda, I believe, in the budget, I believe, is that all of that work would get done, but some of it's sequential.

[1:09:57] Voice 15: So if I'm misspeaking, Director Cermak can correct me, but it's can we do $300,000 of work in one year is the question at hand.

[1:10:09] Voice 12: Well, what I'm hearing is that we do need to hear from Director Cermak just to explain the rationale behind these.

[1:10:17] Voice 12: They're not even suggestions.

[1:10:18] Voice 12: They're just simply options that are being presented for trustees to consider.

[1:10:22] Voice 12: But, you

[1:10:23] Voice 12: know, the staff has identified these as a rationale.

[1:10:27] Voice 12: They're claiming it's reasonable.

[1:10:29] Voice 12: There's apprehension on the trustee part.

[1:10:31] Voice 12: So we do need that explanation.

[1:10:32] Voice 12: nation so um perhaps we could arrange to have uh director sermac uh address this uh soon and

[1:10:41] Voice 12: attend the meeting if he can uh trustee bowman he's

[1:10:45] Voice 15: on screen sir

[1:10:46] Voice 12: oh he is i'm sorry apologies

[1:10:50] Voice 12: uh that's what i

[1:10:50] Voice 15: get for we look the same uh

[1:10:53] Voice 12: okay i'm glad to um not comment uh directors

[1:11:00] Voice 11: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I apologize for my audio quality. I'm aware that my microphone for my headset is not working, and so I'm yelling at my computer. And if you can't hear me, please just identify that for me.

[1:11:12] Voice 11: Okay. So the question at hand, if staff put this forward as a recommendation, you'll see, I put this as not a recommendation, pardon me, as an option for your consideration.

[1:11:23] Voice 11: You'll see that's the same recommendation or option, sorry, that I put forward in September or October to this committee.

[1:11:31] Voice 11: committee. And it's for the same rationale, and that is, as the CAO pointed out, it's

[1:11:38] Voice 11: the timing of the projects as presented to the Salt Spring LTC. They have a grant. It

[1:11:44] Voice 11: has to be completed by the end of August. That will dominate a lot of work. As that

[1:11:50] Voice 11: gets moving through the process, then we can start to concurrently plan the OCP LUB project,

[1:11:57] Voice 11: project, which is a broad, you know, engaged series of engagement sessions that will build

[1:12:03] Voice 11: on the research of the grant that's happening.

[1:12:06] Voice 11: And then following would be the specific work of Ganges.

[1:12:11] Voice 11: And so that's a more dialed in specific approach.

[1:12:16] Voice 11: And so yeah, that the proposed resources remains the same as allocated to Salt Meal DC.

[1:12:22] Voice 11: They have two island planners working on the projects with some support staff to work by

[1:12:28] Voice 11: the plan or two so it's kind of like two and a half support uh staff working on that and it

[1:12:33] Voice 11: really became uh we can certainly can try but it doesn't seem feasible to get all the work done

[1:12:40] Voice 11: although we'd be spending all the same resources in terms of staffing it just didn't seem like if

[1:12:45] Voice 11: you needed to to look for some cost savings it seemed feasible considering the lack of progress

[1:12:50] Voice 11: over the last couple of years in this work that you may see the same lack of progress in specific

[1:12:55] Voice 11: specific work this this next fiscal because of the great work that's happening or proposed to happen

[1:13:01] Voice 11: with the um the researcher so I think the elected officials on Salt Spring were presented with a

[1:13:08] Voice 11: flow chart and some some sort of explanation of that so I'm just drawing on the work that

[1:13:13] Voice 11: Salt Spring staff have done to the LTP so

[1:13:17] Voice 12: it's really a matter of timing I guess um trustee

[1:13:20] Voice 12: Boland.

[1:13:24] Voice 17: Yeah, thanks. I'm looking at the Galliano office and this has been discussed

[1:13:33] Voice 17: for three or four years.

[1:13:35] Voice 12: As chair, I'm going to step in here. I'm concerned that we stay

[1:13:40] Voice 12: as efficient as possible in the meeting and the Galliano office, we can discuss it, but I'm going

[1:13:45] Voice 12: to ask that we defer that discussion until this group gets its, you know, we're starting to get

[1:13:50] Voice 12: some traction on the salt spring issue let's not distract yourself let's focus on that for now

[1:13:55] Voice 12: sure and once we once this group has reached some kind of consensus about it we can get on to the

[1:14:01] Voice 12: next item so trustee bowman you've got something to say about the salt spring issue please do

[1:14:05] Voice 17: no

[1:14:05] Voice 12: i don't thanks trustee evans audio trustee evans uh your audio trustee evans can't hear you

[1:14:24] Voice 6: i'm trying to get back in here yeah

[1:14:26] Voice 12: we got you we hear you now i

[1:14:27] Voice 6: don't have anything to say about

[1:14:28] Voice 6: salt spring i've got other comments oh

[1:14:30] Voice 12: okay thank you trustee patrick i just

[1:14:35] Trustee Patrick: want to point out salt

[1:14:36] Trustee Patrick: spring uh contributes uh around three million towards the revenue of this organization and our

[1:14:43] Trustee Patrick: ocp is vintage 2008 our land use bylaw is vintage 1999 the 2008 ocp was never implemented

[1:14:52] Trustee Patrick: uh we have significant work to do yes uh there's money that was carried over from last year

[1:14:59] Trustee Patrick: we haven't even scoped this work yet um you know so we need to do urgent planning on salt spring

[1:15:08] Trustee Patrick: and figure out you know how to get the attention that we deserve so like i said cutting here i

[1:15:14] Trustee Patrick: think is just really the wrong move but

[1:15:18] Voice 12: trustee patrick what we heard director sermac telling us

[1:15:22] Voice 12: and i stand to be corrected is that it's not really realistic to expect that everything on

[1:15:29] Voice 12: on the agenda for salt spring is going to get done this year the staffing isn't there the staffing is

[1:15:36] Voice 12: going to be that is available for salt spring is going to be fully occupied in salt spring

[1:15:40] Voice 12: but that won't be enough to do all of it and i think what he's talking about it's reasonable

[1:15:44] Voice 12: to defer this amount because we're probably not going to get around to it what do you do about

[1:15:49] Voice 12: that well last

[1:15:50] Voice 12: year we had

[1:15:51] Trustee Patrick: a staffing report that said that the work was going to be done this year

[1:15:55] Trustee Patrick: and zero was done. So I don't know what to believe anymore.

[1:16:00] Voice 12: Well, I don't know if this is the forum

[1:16:03] Voice 12: for it, but we're talking about just dealing with what we're budgeting in anticipation of what our

[1:16:08] Voice 12: expenditure requirements will be going forward. And I think we have to drill into the point that

[1:16:15] Voice 12: Director Cermak has made, which is we've got a tiny in a sequence issue that grant work has to

[1:16:22] Voice 12: to be done first it's going to take a lot of time and it's not realistic to think that the grant

[1:16:28] Voice 12: work and the village area plan is going to get done all the same year that's what i've heard

[1:16:33] Voice 12: so i i think it we've got to wrestle with that as a group uh trustee evans um

[1:16:43] Voice 6: yeah like i said i

[1:16:44] Voice 6: don't i don't have comments on the salt spring issue so much as other so i'll take my hand down

[1:16:48] Voice 12: i'll

[1:16:48] Voice 6: raise it later uh

[1:16:50] Voice 12: do any of the trustees who have their hands up now are they wishing to speak

[1:16:54] Voice 12: to the salt spring issue i i see trustee peterson is nodding his head uh i see trustee boland um

[1:17:04] Voice 12: trustee graham if i can just inquire as well salt spring as well all right thank you uh trustee

[1:17:08] Voice 12: peterson

[1:17:10] Voice 4: so um i'm hoping we can get some clarity on on um uh director sermac uh mentioned that the

[1:17:20] Voice 4: the uh complete communities grant um work needs to be completed um by august

[1:17:27] Voice 4: and a quick count on my fingers, that leaves seven months in the coming fiscal.

[1:17:36] Voice 4: So I'm just a little bit unclear if that other work is to be completed by August.

[1:17:43] Voice 4: Let's hope that that happens.

[1:17:45] Voice 4: Then we have seven months prior to the next fiscal,

[1:17:50] Voice 4: and I'm just wondering if we can get some clarity on how that works, some anticipation.

[1:17:57] Voice 4: I'm just not totally clear on how that – maybe you could just repeat if I missed something.

[1:18:03] Voice 11: Director Cermak, if

[1:18:04] Voice 12: you could answer the question, please.

[1:18:07] Voice 11: Sure. So I'll do my best.

[1:18:08] Voice 11: Again, the specifics were supplied to the Salt Screen LPC on terms of anticipated timing and flow of work.

[1:18:15] Voice 12: We need better audio.

[1:18:17] Voice 12: You're kind of low, not hearing you very well.

[1:18:20] Voice 11: Oh, yeah.

[1:18:21] Voice 11: Again, I'm sorry.

[1:18:22] Voice 11: I did warn you that this may be an issue.

[1:18:24] Voice 11: Okay, so again, you're right, Trustee Peterson, that the grant, the deliverables must be delivered by August, which presumably then gets to the LTC in August-September time zone.

[1:18:37] Voice 11: So the work for the OCP amendment process, as Trustee Patrick mentioned, you know, up to date, the business cases have indicated sort of previous projects merged into that.

[1:18:50] Voice 11: The Coastal Douglas fir ecosystem project they had and others related to that.

[1:18:54] Voice 11: We're hearing from them that it needs to be re-scoped to be a broader engagement session.

[1:19:00] Voice 11: And so that takes time, takes a fair bit of resources that can start concurrently somewhat early in the spring or summer.

[1:19:10] Voice 11: But staff anticipate that will eat up most of your time.

[1:19:13] Voice 11: Not that Ganges can't start. For clarity, staff aren't saying that we can't do the work.

[1:19:19] Voice 11: It's just if you're looking for places to possibly amend this budget,

[1:19:25] Voice 11: budget, that staff could easily take all that time with the OCP project into the end of

[1:19:31] Voice 11: the fiscal and carry on with Ganges in the following year. Or Ganges could be absorbed

[1:19:37] Voice 11: into the OCP LEP process itself and become one of the subject matters within the OCP

[1:19:41] Voice 11: LEP. So just looking for that type of efficiency. But to answer your question about timing,

[1:19:46] Voice 11: yes, it's the end of August whereby you have the deliverable for the communities grant

[1:19:51] Voice 11: and staff anticipate following them with the LTC direction to do community engagement and First

[1:19:56] Voice 11: Nations engagement, both which are expected to be quite lengthy and cumbersome in terms of staff

[1:20:03] Voice 11: resourcing hours, LTC hours and all that. And so getting to the specifics of an OCP amendment for

[1:20:09] Voice 11: Ganges seemed like in the flow chart that was presented, that's the next item and that could

[1:20:14] Voice 11: could easily be deferred.

[1:20:16] Voice 11: And really it's also based on the historic,

[1:20:19] Voice 11: the last couple of years,

[1:20:20] Voice 11: this work has not really taken off in any way.

[1:20:23] Voice 11: So that means it's going to be re-imagined

[1:20:25] Voice 11: and re-taken to community and stuff like that.

[1:20:28] Voice 11: So that's how staff presented it to the LTC.

[1:20:31] Voice 11: And so that's how I'm presenting it here.

[1:20:34] Voice 11: Thank you.

[1:20:34] Voice 11: Trustee Graham.

[1:20:36] Voice 8: Thank you, Chair.

[1:20:38] Voice 8: I'm hearing the frustration from Salt Spring Trustee Patrick.

[1:20:42] Voice 8: trick. I'm hearing that past year's work has not been completed. Salt Spring does contribute

[1:20:50] Voice 8: an enormous amount of resources to the overall budget. And yet, the traditionally projects at

[1:20:58] Voice 8: the local trust area have never taken priority over administrative costs and improvements,

[1:21:05] Voice 8: such as software, various other administrative improvements. And I really think that it's

[1:21:12] Voice 8: It's high time that local trust area budgets be prioritized so that they aren't scrabbling for dollars, because that's where the people that live on those islands, that's where they see the results of the islands trust.

[1:21:26] Voice 8: That's where they see the mandate actually creating something that they can value and they can touch and they can enjoy.

[1:21:33] Voice 8: And this is, you know, my history as a trustee and on the executive, this has been a perennial problem from day one.

[1:21:40] Voice 8: One, the budget for projects has always been, oh, well, you know, we'll just, that'll be the last thing we look at.

[1:21:46] Voice 8: We'll try and keep everything else, you know, shiny and new and replaced.

[1:21:50] Voice 8: But the local trust area budgets have always been pathetically small, considering the overall size of the budget, period.

[1:21:57] Voice 8: I would not recommend chopping.

[1:22:00] Voice 8: In fact, I would double the local trust area budgets.

[1:22:03] Voice 8: I would re-resource them so that they do get the work done each year that their residents have paid for and expect to be done.

[1:22:11] Voice 8: Thank you.

[1:22:13] Voice 12: Well, what we heard from Director Firmack is it's actually less about the money than about the staff capacity.

[1:22:19] Voice 12: So I

[1:22:22] Voice 17: suppose my question is, why is there a staff capacity issue on Salt Spring Island that continues from year to year?

[1:22:30] Voice 17: and you know I'm not saying that we should hire new staff positions but why is why are other

[1:22:39] Voice 17: islands not saying we you know being deferred because of staff issues why is it unique to

[1:22:47] Voice 17: that staff issues are causing deferment of projects is

[1:22:57] Voice 12: that question being directed to

[1:22:58] Voice 12: Director Cermak?

[1:23:01] Voice 12: Yes,

[1:23:01] Voice 17: is there some sort of ring fence

[1:23:03] Voice 17: around the way the staff

[1:23:05] Voice 17: are deployed that causes

[1:23:07] Voice 17: it to be always Salt Spring

[1:23:09] Voice 17: put at the back of the queue?

[1:23:11] Voice 17: Thanks.

[1:23:13] Voice 12: Director Cermak, if you could answer the question.

[1:23:15] Voice 11: I'm seeing CAO Hudson-Piller.

[1:23:17] Voice 11: I'll defer to him.

[1:23:20] Voice 12: Okay, if you want to defer to CAO.

[1:23:23] Voice 15: I think that this conversation

[1:23:25] Voice 15: ascribing the progress

[1:23:27] Voice 15: around Salt Spring Island is a longer

[1:23:29] Voice 15: conversation.

[1:23:31] Voice 15: And it is not simply a matter of staffing. Achievement of any of these long-range goals is both staffing, political will and vision, engagement with community, engagement with First Nations, all of those things combine to lead to one success over another.

[1:23:50] Voice 15: other um so i don't think just saying there's not enough staff capacity certainly that's there is

[1:23:55] Voice 15: some factor there but if you're if you're using that as the fulcrum for your decision making i

[1:23:59] Voice 15: just don't think it's a complete enough picture and it's too specific to salt spring in this case

[1:24:03] Voice 15: other you know denman island could say the same thing um around some of its farm planning it would

[1:24:08] Voice 15: be more than simply staff resources that are associated with the success or failure of any

[1:24:12] Voice 15: a given project or it's delay so um i just offer that thought because i i i know that that's the

[1:24:19] Voice 15: case if if you wanted a lot more detail around those things um we probably can't get it to you

[1:24:24] Voice 15: in this financial planning meeting um but it's it's the combination of those things as well as

[1:24:30] Voice 15: um staffing resources thanks thank

[1:24:35] Voice 12: you cao um i see it's almost 12 o'clock and we've been banging

[1:24:39] Voice 12: away at this for almost an hour and a half but i think it makes sense to break for lunch soon

[1:24:43] Voice 12: but before we do that uh uh let's hear from trustee harris and then director mobs and after

[1:24:48] Voice 12: that um let's recess for lunch uh

[1:24:52] Voice 10: thank you thank you he has some great uh insight here and um

[1:24:58] Voice 10: hearing uh stephan sermac speak about money not being spent so you know what salt spring is

[1:25:08] Voice 10: to me it seems like quite a mess and and things do not get done um you know this political end

[1:25:16] Voice 10: of it is is very real here and we'll have projects that some may say well this is a great thing and

[1:25:22] Voice 10: half the islanders will know this isn't a great thing um and we you know historically well we've

[1:25:27] Voice 10: seen some things in recent history projects that were a flop and you know i still wonder how much

[1:25:32] Voice 10: was spent on on them but so honestly i don't know what to do with this question i don't even know

[1:25:38] Voice 10: what you know if there's money that isn't going to be spent and it can be used somewhere else

[1:25:43] Voice 10: then and that's a reality then i just i support that um at this point that's about all i have to

[1:25:49] Voice 10: offer on this thanks director

[1:25:52] Voice 12: mobs uh

[1:25:56] Voice 7: so i do agree with what our cao has said that this i

[1:25:59] Voice 7: I think this is a much larger conversation

[1:26:01] Voice 7: and I do want to acknowledge

[1:26:03] Voice 7: that this maybe wasn't the best place

[1:26:07] Voice 7: to present this as a potential budget reduction

[1:26:10] Voice 7: if the goal is to reduce the tax increase.

[1:26:14] Voice 7: So Trustee Patrick pointed out earlier

[1:26:16] Voice 7: this is funded for monies

[1:26:18] Voice 7: that was collected in the current year.

[1:26:21] Voice 7: Monies that's collected in the current year

[1:26:22] Voice 7: that is not spent flows into surplus

[1:26:26] Voice 7: and then we can use it next year.

[1:26:28] Voice 7: with LTC projects unspent money flows into the local trust committee reserve funds

[1:26:33] Voice 7: and that money is earmarked specifically for local trust committee work so if these dollars

[1:26:40] Voice 7: were removed from the budget in order to be used they would need to be reallocated to local trust

[1:26:47] Voice 7: committee work and that would require submission of new local trust committee projects which we

[1:26:52] Voice 7: don't have so i don't see that removing this is going to have an impact on taxation um if that's

[1:26:58] Voice 7: the goal of the committee that will not be achieved removing this um certainly you know

[1:27:03] Voice 7: the conversation itself is a worthy one uh perhaps at other uh tables as well certainly

[1:27:09] Voice 7: the seltzer and local trust committee um i think that i think that's it that's all i need to say

[1:27:15] Voice 12: well on that um rather important note uh that was helpful thank you director mobs on that important

[1:27:22] Voice 12: note um let's uh recess for lunch and return at one o'clock and resume this

[1:27:28] Voice 12: specific discussion about where we can find some potential savings thank you

[2:28:09] Voice 12: Well, I see by my clock that it is 1 p.m., and I'm going to call the meeting back to order.

[2:28:21] Voice 12: We have now returned to resume our session in the discussion of the draft budget overview

[2:28:36] Voice 12: and examination of potential areas of reduction that would knock down the proposed tax increase.

[2:28:45] Voice 12: and just before we left director mobs took one of the pieces off the board in that respect

[2:28:52] Voice 12: in pointing out that the item 12 on that little spreadsheet uh deferring the work of the village

[2:29:00] Voice 12: area planning ganges would actually not make a percentage difference to the budget so i'm

[2:29:07] Voice 12: going to suggest we park that at the moment uh because as people have pointed out that is a

[2:29:14] Voice 12: larger policy planning issue it's not we've just learned going to make that big of a difference

[2:29:21] Voice 12: well it's not going to make any difference in terms of the bottom line tax increase for this

[2:29:27] Voice 12: year so let's move on to a different item if we can that will bring the floor for people to

[2:29:31] Voice 12: identify and discuss items either on this list or elsewhere that they would like to examine

[2:29:37] Voice 12: Trustee Boland?

[2:29:40] Voice 17: I have two things I want to raise. One is the Galliano office has been

[2:29:47] Voice 17: discussed many many times you know as a potential saving and I understand that you know

[2:30:00] Voice 17: people use it but you know other islands we don't have those we use the public recreation or

[2:30:05] Voice 17: or we use a community hall if we need some space to meet people um so I would challenge

[2:30:15] Voice 17: you know I would challenge the use of that space unless there is nothing else available on Galliano

[2:30:22] Voice 17: and it's the only place where a trustee can be to meet people.

[2:30:28] Voice 17: You know, staff come to Saterna,

[2:30:30] Voice 17: they don't have an office on Saterna to use.

[2:30:33] Voice 17: That's one thing, I'll leave it at that.

[2:30:35] Voice 17: The second thing is I've been looking really closely

[2:30:40] Voice 17: at the Islands Trust Conservancy budget

[2:30:44] Voice 17: and at the moment in the budget there is a bookmark at least

[2:30:48] Voice 17: and a very extensive business case for a new property management

[2:30:53] Voice 17: person and I would argue that that should be on this list because it's already in the budget so

[2:31:00] Voice 17: it would be a reduction of 110 20 000 I can't remember the number exactly I have a a lot more

[2:31:09] Voice 17: to say about that but I'll leave it at this that it should be on the list as a reduction just as a

[2:31:16] Voice 17: starting point thank you and

[2:31:20] Voice 12: i would ask director mobs to provide a quick clarification um in the

[2:31:24] Voice 12: past you've pointed out that there's a rough number will it translate into a percentage point

[2:31:30] Voice 12: uh what are we looking at this year is it looks like it's roughly eighty thousand dollars or

[2:31:34] Voice 12: something director mob is that right sorry

[2:31:43] Voice 7: i was muted uh yeah that's correct around eighty

[2:31:45] Voice 7: thousand just over okay

[2:31:47] Voice 12: thank you uh trustee graham yeah

[2:31:50] Voice 8: thank you chair i'd like to revisit

[2:31:52] Voice 8: revisit the in-person trust council meetings and the tremendous savings that can happen if we take

[2:32:00] Voice 8: two of them and make them electronic. And I remember the argument against that. What was

[2:32:05] Voice 8: proposed was, well, the thought of sitting in front of my computer for three days was something

[2:32:10] Voice 8: that was untenable. But keep in mind, if we look at electronic meetings versus in-person meetings,

[2:32:17] Voice 8: meetings. We don't have to sit in front of our computer for three days. We can break the

[2:32:22] Voice 8: requirements, the work that we do into manageable little sections. They don't have to happen

[2:32:28] Voice 8: concurrently. They don't have to happen sequentially. It gives us much more flexibility

[2:32:32] Voice 8: as to how we deal with the decision-making items that generally happen during trust counsel.

[2:32:38] Voice 8: The reason that you had to sit in front of the camera for three days the last time was because

[2:32:44] Voice 8: there wasn't time for staff to reorganize and look at a different format of the meeting. So

[2:32:49] Voice 8: from an electronic perspective, I'm absolutely convinced we can do that in a much more humane

[2:32:54] Voice 8: manner and save a ton of money. So my suggestion is we reschedule two meetings electronically,

[2:32:59] Voice 8: but with the provision that the agenda is adjusted to accommodate more concentrated

[2:33:08] Voice 8: time in front of our computers and not necessarily sequential or even adjacent days.

[2:33:14] Voice 8: Thank you.

[2:33:16] Voice 12: Trustee Elliott.

[2:33:19] Voice 19: Thank you.

[2:33:21] Voice 19: So I did a little bit of number crunching, which is not like me over the lunch break.

[2:33:30] Voice 19: Mainly with the view of how can we reduce the Bowen Island Municipality tax levy.

[2:33:37] Voice 19: There's no representative here today, but this is a really important consideration.

[2:33:43] Voice 19: And so if I'm not mistaken, it's the operational ITC and programs costs that add to the BIM tax levy.

[2:33:54] Voice 19: Is that right?

[2:33:55] Voice 19: Right. So with the Galliano office lease effect, that Salt Spring office relocation, ITC ecosystem mapping, litigation, our budget for litigation with that.

[2:34:13] Voice 19: And Julia, I sent you a spreadsheet with just this list of of the operational sort of cost savings that we might find.

[2:34:24] Voice 19: mind. I know it's tedious to read them out loud, so I don't know how to proceed, but

[2:34:32] Voice 19: I guess I'm just looking for, I came up with a savings of about $285,000 just in operational

[2:34:39] Voice 19: ITC and programs. So would that be helpful to have a discussion of really focusing in on where

[2:34:46] Voice 19: Where do we need to reduce so that the BIM tax levy is not, you know, 17 percent?

[2:34:55] Voice 19: Could that focus our discussion right now?

[2:34:58] Voice 12: Well, that's an interesting point, which is to say, if I understand you correctly, Trustee Elliott, if we're looking at reductions, let's focus on the ones that are going to give us that kind of dual impact, which is reduce the overall number.

[2:35:11] Voice 12: But in particular, reduce the number for Bowen Island.

[2:35:14] Voice 12: Is that right?

[2:35:15] Voice 12: Yeah.

[2:35:16] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:35:16] Voice 12: Okay. If you prepared a spreadsheet, that might be helpful for us to put it up at some point for

[2:35:22] Voice 12: us to just look at it and sort of go through those different items. But

[2:35:25] Voice 19: we

[2:35:26] Voice 12: do have the work

[2:35:28] Voice 12: that the staff has already prepared in front of us. I'm wondering if we should just work through

[2:35:32] Voice 12: that first or if we want to go through to yours next.

[2:35:36] Voice 19: So if, well, if I could suggest, I do agree

[2:35:41] Voice 19: I agree that ITC ecosystem mapping could be deferred, and part of that is because the whole Islands Trust Conservancy system needs to get on a different mapping program, and the property management specialist, I think there's going to be enough capacity building over the next year that perhaps this operational item number three could be deferred.

[2:36:06] Voice 19: uh i agree with uh number five the trustee office galliano we're just going to have to make

[2:36:13] Voice 19: savings somewhere so i i was trying to looking i was looking for equity sort of across the board

[2:36:19] Voice 19: um i agree with trustee graham uh one trust council meeting for a savings of thirty one thousand

[2:36:27] Voice 19: dollars um to be held electronically could be achieved stewardship education um i'm of two

[2:36:37] Voice 19: minds on that i think i think with the focus on the policy statement project that's going to be

[2:36:44] Voice 19: a lot of work for trust programs and trust council generally and i'm wondering if stewardship

[2:36:49] Voice 19: education can um take a back burner this year um and then the other ones that i'd add in for

[2:36:58] Voice 19: reduced savings uh secretariat services if we could reduce those by five or ten thousand dollars

[2:37:08] Voice 19: um i noted that the litigation budget there was a note in there that

[2:37:15] Voice 19: because it's such a unpredictable line item uh we can't tell how year to year

[2:37:22] Voice 19: where we're going to get sued, basically, that perhaps we could reduce it and draw from the

[2:37:30] Voice 19: surplus as needed. So we could reduce that, say, to by $50,000. I don't know what everyone thinks

[2:37:36] Voice 19: about that. So and then executive expenses on LTCs. This has been sort of an ongoing conversation.

[2:37:44] Voice 19: I really think we can make more effort to have some more meetings electronically.

[2:37:49] Voice 19: electronically uh now that we've all settled in for the first year and we've gotten to know one

[2:37:53] Voice 19: another um i'm wondering if we can reduce by at least ten thousand dollars some of those executive

[2:37:59] Voice 19: the budget for executive expenses and uh oh yeah and then the final one city view by loss software

[2:38:08] Voice 19: um ninety thousand dollars i know this is an important software to keep uh up with you know

[2:38:15] Voice 19: to be integrated with the the city view planning or um mapping but it took so long to integrate

[2:38:23] Voice 19: the city view mapping i'm wondering if if we can delay that for another year so the spreadsheet

[2:38:31] Voice 19: that i sent to you julia it's it's about 285 000 in savings i don't know if all of that is

[2:38:36] Voice 19: operational itc and programs i think it is but um i could send that to robert barlow if it'd be

[2:38:42] Voice 19: helpful to put up on the screen well

[2:38:46] Voice 12: thank you for that trustee elliot there's a lot there and

[2:38:48] Voice 12: obviously it intersects with all sorts of policy considerations but um it's helpful have the to

[2:38:55] Voice 12: have a wider range of options for people to discuss here but before we get to that um let's

[2:39:00] Voice 12: remember the trustees have got some points to make here trustee evans thanks

[2:39:04] Voice 6: and thanks trustee

[2:39:06] Voice 6: elliot um that you covered off some of the topics that i was going to bring up as well um so the

[2:39:11] Voice 6: The City View by-law portal was one that I was going to say,

[2:39:13] Voice 6: perhaps we can defer it as well for the same reasons that you said.

[2:39:18] Voice 6: I'm just wondering if the spreadsheet that we've got up here currently,

[2:39:21] Voice 6: is this, are we able to work with it?

[2:39:25] Voice 6: And if so, can we make some changes as we go?

[2:39:27] Voice 6: Because I think we've agreed to take out the Salt Spring,

[2:39:31] Voice 6: Ganges village area plan,

[2:39:34] Voice 6: because that money has already been set aside

[2:39:36] Voice 6: and it's not going to result in any savings.

[2:39:39] Voice 17: Maybe just for the month.

[2:39:41] Voice 17: You know, I wouldn't delete them, perhaps, so we still see what we're doing, but just

[2:39:47] Voice 17: grade them out or put another column in that says yes, no.

[2:39:51] Voice 17: They're

[2:39:51] Voice 6: being moved.

[2:39:52] Voice 6: So you can still see them.

[2:39:54] Voice 6: They're just being moved.

[2:39:55] Voice 20: Okay.

[2:39:57] Voice 6: The other thing that I wanted to bring up was the property management line item.

[2:40:01] Voice 6: It's gone up from 119,000 to 166,000.

[2:40:04] Voice 6: I have a question as to why the property management line item has increased by $50,000.

[2:40:10] Voice 6: dollars and is that something that uh could be managed or reduced in any way um and then my my

[2:40:17] Voice 6: my next point was um the number of um staff new staff that are proposed within this budget this

[2:40:26] Voice 6: is a lot of people um so that's another area that we should be taking a look at uh to provide

[2:40:33] Voice 6: provide recommendations to Trust Council? Because while I'm not denying that they're needed,

[2:40:42] Voice 6: it's can any of these positions be deferred for a year? Or what can we do? I know the GIS one has

[2:40:50] Voice 6: funding that's associated with it. So that one is a no-brainer, especially given the type of

[2:40:56] Voice 6: work that's needed for it. But some of the other positions, can they be deferred? I'm trying to

[2:41:01] Voice 6: look at things that aren't necessarily um uh project related but going back into operations

[2:41:09] Voice 6: because like i said the project related stuff is only about eight hundred thousand dollars worth of

[2:41:14] Voice 6: the 11 million dollar budget we have to be looking at the that the 10 million that's sitting there

[2:41:19] Voice 6: and trying to figure out where we can get better at uh managing that that that money um so i would

[2:41:29] Voice 6: like to um same as um as uh trustee elliott suggested pop on this list the city bylaw

[2:41:38] Voice 6: portal for deferral we can have a conversation around it um and then also put on this um

[2:41:46] Voice 6: on this list review of proposed new staff positions and then we can have a conversation

[2:41:54] Voice 6: about that as well all

[2:41:57] Voice 12: right well that's one way of proceeding which is to simply just keep adding

[2:42:00] Voice 12: items to this list and then discussing them at some juncture though i think we're going to have

[2:42:05] Voice 12: to start taking a straw poll on an item item basis we don't have to do that now but relatively soon

[2:42:11] Voice 12: it'd be helpful to start clearing off some of these items to discover some points of agreement

[2:42:16] Voice 12: but um if we're going to put up the bylaw portal and the staff position issue up there obviously

[2:42:21] Voice 12: we're going to need numbers to go into the column um so we'll be looking to staff to provide those

[2:42:28] Voice 12: those numbers as we ingeniously sort of throw ideas up.

[2:42:33] Voice 12: It's

[2:42:34] Voice 15: $90,000 for the by-law portal.

[2:42:36] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:42:39] Voice 12: Question

[2:42:39] Voice 15: mark on the new staff positions.

[2:42:42] Voice 12: Well, there's how many outstanding?

[2:42:45] Voice 12: There's at least three, isn't there?

[2:42:48] Voice 15: Well, there's five, but they're not all full FTEs.

[2:42:51] Voice 12: Right.

[2:42:53] Voice 12: Well, anyhow, we'll need a number in there.

[2:42:55] Voice 12: and that one light item you know five positions covers a lot of complications in terms of

[2:43:04] Voice 12: operations because any one of those positions removing it has potential consequences so you

[2:43:11] Voice 12: know just so we're aware that when we discuss that one item that's a complicated discussion

[2:43:16] Voice 12: if we get to it uh trustee peterson i would also speak yes was that not direct was that

[2:43:24] Voice 12: that director mob speaking or yes uh

[2:43:26] Voice 7: yeah i would just suggest that we actually list the five

[2:43:29] Voice 7: positions independent of one another um i get the conversation yeah

[2:43:35] Voice 12: yeah that makes sense that

[2:43:36] Voice 12: makes sense let's do it that way and we'll rely on staff to do that for us while we continue our

[2:43:41] Voice 12: discussion here trustee peterson uh

[2:43:45] Voice 4: uh thank you chair so just a couple of comments um i'm hearing

[2:43:51] Voice 4: defer uh frequently and well i think there's there's certainly cases where that's appropriate

[2:43:57] Voice 4: i think we it's useful to think about when deferring actually saves money or when it actually

[2:44:04] Voice 4: um uh has potential to cost us more down the road um so that's that's one item uh the trust

[2:44:13] Voice 4: council meetings uh of course i i think this is going to be a perennial issue that crops up again

[2:44:18] Voice 4: and again however trust council did indicate at the last meeting that they wanted in person

[2:44:26] Voice 4: um so i don't know i mean we can go back to trust council and maybe we'll be doing this every trust

[2:44:31] Voice 4: council to reassess but i i do think that at some point we're starting to uh if it's coming up every

[2:44:41] Voice 4: um trust council meeting then we're starting to waste some resources in terms of planning those

[2:44:46] Voice 4: meetings booking spaces etc so so a word of caution there about reassessing that

[2:44:52] Voice 4: every every time in terms of local trust committee expenses I do recognize those

[2:45:01] Voice 4: are some big numbers however I think one thing that is important to me in in

[2:45:08] Voice 4: terms of electronic versus in-person meetings it's a desire of a lot of a lot

[2:45:13] Voice 4: lot of folks i hear from on the islands want a chance to come in person there are still a lot

[2:45:19] Voice 4: of people that either don't have access to good internet or simply are not savvy with the with

[2:45:26] Voice 4: the electronic equipment and so i think we need to be careful about suggesting that that uh you

[2:45:33] Voice 4: know a drift towards electronic is necessarily serving our constituency well so i just you know

[2:45:42] Voice 4: just point of caution there and finally just one more thing i i received an email uh with respect

[2:45:49] Voice 4: to the galliano office um letting me know that kate emmings from the conservancy also uses that

[2:45:56] Voice 4: space and so does the galliano island area planning commission um i'm not certain what

[2:46:06] Voice 4: what their potential meeting costs would be.

[2:46:09] Voice 4: They were using another space,

[2:46:10] Voice 4: but that's just another factor.

[2:46:13] Voice 4: So I'll leave it at that for now.

[2:46:16] Voice 12: Thank you, Trustee Bond.

[2:46:19] Trustee Maude: Thank you, Chair.

[2:46:20] Trustee Maude: I just, I really want to say,

[2:46:23] Trustee Maude: I concur virtually with everything

[2:46:25] Trustee Maude: that Trustee Elliott listed out there on her laundry list.

[2:46:30] Trustee Maude: My particular reason I put my hand up

[2:46:32] Trustee Maude: was the Galliano office issue,

[2:46:35] Trustee Maude: because it was a couple of years ago,

[2:46:37] Trustee Maude: was a decision um of trust council to eliminate all the the uh on island offices because every

[2:46:43] Trustee Maude: island had one um on main island it was costing a hundred dollars a month and we willingly gave

[2:46:49] Trustee Maude: up our space and then you know i i pay out of pocket when i need to use office space

[2:46:54] Trustee Maude: um on island which is on occasion because at home i have very limited internet access

[2:46:59] Trustee Maude: um and it's it's just it's more reasonable to to do that um but the the particular thing was is

[2:47:07] Trustee Maude: is that all the other islands, as I recall, were sort of in the $100 a month range,

[2:47:11] Trustee Maude: whereas Galliano is actually significantly more.

[2:47:14] Trustee Maude: And, you know, I feel badly, you know, if other people are using that space that we're paying for,

[2:47:22] Trustee Maude: surely at least we should be doing cost recovery.

[2:47:25] Trustee Maude: But I just find it very, very hard to justify that one island gets an office space

[2:47:31] Trustee Maude: and all the other islands don't.

[2:47:35] Trustee Maude: I just don't think that that's an equitable situation.

[2:47:38] Trustee Maude: And I think in the interest of making it fair for all, that, you know, there is, with the exception of Gabriela and Salt Spring, who have, like, regionally based offices, we shouldn't be having on-island spaces because it costs money and we're trying not to spend it.

[2:47:55] Trustee Maude: Thank you.

[2:47:56] Trustee Maude: Thank you, Trustee Mudd.

[2:47:58] Voice 12: Trustee Luckham.

[2:48:03] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[2:48:04] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. I guess what's on my mind here as I'm listening to this conversation is deferring and putting off work. And I really have to ask the question is, when do we budget for doing this work and how long do we put it off for or do we just not do it?

[2:48:23] Trustee Luckham: I'm not advocating that we should not do it, but I think it's not going to be any easier next cycle to increase the budget than it has been this cycle, because the more work we defer, the more we ultimately end up paying in the long run.

[2:48:43] Trustee Luckham: So I'm an advocate, especially when I hear that Salt Spring, for instance, isn't getting the work done.

[2:48:50] Trustee Luckham: If we continue to defer things, we're not we're simply not going to achieve these things or meet the mandate of the Islands Trust.

[2:48:59] Voice 12: Although we do have this perennial issue where we are constantly following your advice of funding these things.

[2:49:07] Voice 12: And it's not just your advice. It's a general theme. But it's like, let's fund these things that we support.

[2:49:12] Voice 12: but they even when they get funded they don't get done that's the issue which is if they're

[2:49:17] Voice 12: not going to get done anyhow why are we funding them for two years um

[2:49:24] Trustee Luckham: if i might just respond sir

[2:49:27] Trustee Luckham: seeing as um um that was identified earlier as a much bigger conversation associated with

[2:49:36] Trustee Luckham: resourcing and um i think we have to be clear on that that's two different things if we had

[2:49:43] Trustee Luckham: resources available for the plans that we have, we would be spending the money. So I think that's

[2:49:51] Trustee Luckham: not necessarily intuitive to think, well, we're not going to do it, so why spend it? We may as

[2:49:56] Trustee Luckham: well not do anything.

[2:49:58] Voice 12: Well, you know, and I appreciate I'm kind of speaking out of turn

[2:50:01] Voice 12: here, but I think we do have a general concern as a group here. The one thing we ought not to be

[2:50:06] Voice 12: be doing is doing a you know approving funding for things that we really don't expect are going

[2:50:14] Voice 12: to get done because when we do that what we are in effect doing is creating a funding requirement

[2:50:21] Voice 12: which has taxation implications that ultimately feeds into a surplus because if you don't send

[2:50:27] Voice 12: the money spend the money it goes into you know your retained funds and we ought not to be raising

[2:50:34] Voice 12: raising taxes to make sure funding is available for a project where it's not

[2:50:39] Voice 12: going to get spent. Personally, that's my anxiety.

[2:50:42] Voice 12: So that's my concern, really.

[2:50:46] Trustee Luckham: So I understand that and agree with that, but let's be,

[2:50:50] Trustee Luckham: let's find out clearly from staff what it is we

[2:50:54] Trustee Luckham: have the resources to do and

[2:50:55] Trustee Luckham: not defer those things that we do have the resources for.

[2:50:58] Voice 12: Agreed entirely. Trustee Patrick.

[2:51:00] Voice 12: Patrick uh

[2:51:03] Trustee Patrick: actually trustee Yates was before me she just dropped to the

[2:51:06] Voice 12: bottom oh sorry trustee

[2:51:08] Voice 12: Yates thank

[2:51:10] Voice 13: you chair Bernardo just getting back to something that um trustee Peterson brought up

[2:51:16] Voice 13: about local trust committee expenses I wasn't clear whether uh trustee Elliott was referring to

[2:51:24] Voice 13: the chair attending electronically and thus saving travel expenses and overnight accommodation

[2:51:31] Voice 13: expenses or whether she actually meant to hold the LTC meetings electronically

[2:51:38] Voice 13: which along with trustee Peterson I would not agree with people do like to

[2:51:44] Voice 13: attend their meetings on island I think it's really really important to have

[2:51:49] Voice 13: them in person on all the islands but perhaps there's a way to save money by

[2:51:57] Voice 13: by having the chair attend electronically.

[2:51:59] Voice 13: I don't know, I'm just suggesting maybe that's

[2:52:03] Voice 13: what Trustee Elliot was referring to.

[2:52:06] Voice 13: And I just wanted to make a little note of defense

[2:52:09] Voice 13: for the Galliano office because Trustee Maud mentioned

[2:52:12] Voice 13: that if he meets on Main Island somewhere,

[2:52:16] Voice 13: he uses his own money,

[2:52:19] Voice 13: but then I'm sure he gets reimbursed for that.

[2:52:21] Voice 13: So that adds up too.

[2:52:22] Voice 13: Thank you.

[2:52:23] Voice 13: what's

[2:52:25] Voice 12: the project i

[2:52:27] Trustee Patrick: wanted to add my straw to the 90 000 bylaw um the regional planning committee

[2:52:33] Trustee Patrick: is forwarded a project charter to trust council for consideration in march about the bylaw review

[2:52:41] Trustee Patrick: update project that followed up on the ombudsman report that we received uh last year i guess it

[2:52:47] Trustee Patrick: was um in the staff report that's going to accompany that it says that resource staff

[2:52:52] Trustee Patrick: staff resources are challenged to even address the recommendations from the

[2:52:56] Trustee Patrick: ombudsman report. So I think if there's a choice,

[2:52:59] Trustee Patrick: it would be to focus on the ombudsman report and improving the bylaw

[2:53:04] Trustee Patrick: enforcement process overall, and then do the technology afterwards,

[2:53:10] Trustee Patrick: because there will need to be staff resources directed toward the technology.

[2:53:15] Trustee Patrick: So I think there is a risk that the, like I said,

[2:53:20] Trustee Patrick: bylaw project uh wouldn't get done anyway um and that we should focus on the uh addressing the

[2:53:28] Trustee Patrick: ombudsman report as a as a priority for next year perhaps

[2:53:32] Voice 12: you could hear from director cermak or the

[2:53:34] Voice 12: cao on that point because if i understand your point correctly trustee patrick you're saying

[2:53:39] Voice 12: you know it might make sense to defer the installation of the portal pending rebooting

[2:53:47] Voice 12: uh the enforcement division and what does its work because it might have some complications

[2:53:53] Voice 12: i think we should hear from staff as to whether or not that actually is a problem whether they

[2:53:57] Voice 12: can do both at the same time so uh either director suramak or the ceo please uh could

[2:54:02] Voice 15: we divide our time in half and i'll go really quickly and he can and stefan can back me up

[2:54:07] Voice 15: um uh i would say that that linkage isn't a real linkage um this is a technical piece that's uh

[2:54:14] Voice 15: was delayed a year already so the same conversation happened last year can you defer it or or not do

[2:54:22] Voice 15: it at all yes but it's it's a what we have to manage by law enforcement now is a dying piece

[2:54:29] Voice 15: of software so we don't have the ability to update it anymore um that's why it's being

[2:54:38] Voice 15: put forward now i think this is yeah this is the second if not third time that we've done it

[2:54:43] Voice 15: I turned to Stefan to go, you know, can we go another year? Probably. But it's recommended to proceed. But what do you think, Stefan? Do you think you can?

[2:54:53] Voice 12: Before we go to Director Cermak, your basic point, CEO, is both of these things can be done at the same time. The bylaw portal can be installed and the development of the new enforcement policy.

[2:55:06] Voice 12: yeah

[2:55:06] Voice 15: they're very they're just different activities they just both have by law enforcement

[2:55:10] Voice 15: associated with them but one is a technical um computer-based thing the other is reviewing how

[2:55:16] Voice 15: we actually conduct the service which is people

[2:55:18] Voice 12: oriented so they'll actually be done by two

[2:55:21] Voice 12: separate groups of staff two different people

[2:55:24] Voice 15: they'll be overlap but yes they would be different

[2:55:27] Voice 15: yeah

[2:55:28] Voice 11: sure i can you know i'll just support what i just heard is that we could defer

[2:55:35] Voice 11: deferred. It's already been deferred. You've seen the cost go up from year to year and

[2:55:39] Voice 11: our indications are that will continue to happen. We do have dying software. This is

[2:55:44] Voice 11: what we call the trust area property information system. The information group, the information

[2:55:51] Voice 11: technology keeps telling me that the last time it was updated was the partner of one

[2:55:57] Voice 11: of our staff persons 10, 15 years ago. And that's obviously not a sustainable model.

[2:56:04] Voice 11: It really is a, it could be a dramatic improvement to services, which, and we're getting the momentum of CityView right now.

[2:56:13] Voice 11: We just keep that momentum rolling from planning services, Islands Trust Conservancy, and by-law enforcement.

[2:56:20] Voice 11: And then we can have an improved service by the end of next fiscal. That'd be a good thing.

[2:56:25] Voice 12: Director Thurman, can you clarify?

[2:56:27] Voice 12: You've said that as a consequence of these past deferrals,

[2:56:32] Voice 12: the price has gone up.

[2:56:33] Voice 12: By how much?

[2:56:35] Voice 12: I

[2:56:35] Voice 11: don't have the information before me.

[2:56:36] Voice 11: Perhaps Nancy or Director Freider could give me that number.

[2:56:40] Voice 11: Thank you.

[2:56:41] Voice 11: Trustee Boland?

[2:56:43] Voice 17: Thanks.

[2:56:44] Voice 17: Thanks.

[2:56:45] Voice 17: I just wanted to support Trustee Graham's suggestion

[2:56:50] Voice 17: that we reduce the number of Trust Council meetings.

[2:56:53] Voice 17: But, and I agree that we shouldn't rehash this over and over, but he has added a new suggestion, which is to make the agenda more humane. And that's possible if it's all entirely electronic.

[2:57:11] Voice 17: and the other one is that um with respect to the bylaw enforcement portal i have mixed feelings

[2:57:18] Voice 17: i'm in favor of integrated software but i did read the charter and look at it and i do think

[2:57:25] Voice 17: there's some work to be done around bylaw enforcement processes before we just mechanically

[2:57:31] Voice 17: transport you know transfer everything that's in the current uh utility over so my suggestion would

[2:57:38] Voice 17: would be if we defer it, that we start to create

[2:57:42] Voice 17: that reserve fund for IT infrastructure.

[2:57:47] Voice 17: And we begin by putting, I don't know, 50,000, whatever in.

[2:57:51] Voice 17: So we don't get rid of it entirely,

[2:57:53] Voice 17: but next year then it's, you know,

[2:57:56] Voice 17: we're a little bit better prepared to pay for these things.

[2:57:59] Voice 17: Thanks.

[2:58:01] Voice 12: Leslie Harris.

[2:58:04] Voice 10: Thank you.

[2:58:05] Voice 10: I concur about the differing of ecosystem mapping. I question a lot of these things in here. The bylaw, Trustee Bullen's point about Trust Council dealing with some issues around bylaw are well taken.

[2:58:29] Voice 10: And I can really wrap my mind around differing that as well until this is dealt with.

[2:58:42] Voice 10: The part of the – I'll go on to the whole – the manager of the protected areas.

[2:58:53] Voice 10: Is there a precise job description?

[2:58:56] Voice 10: it's such a vague and I'm not really sure what this person was doing and it

[2:59:03] Voice 10: was something that we absolutely need anyways a lot of these issues are

[2:59:09] Voice 10: talking about the bylaws ecosystem mapping and and our general difficulty

[2:59:17] Voice 10: here I can't help but my mind keeps going back to the governance review and

[2:59:24] Voice 10: and what was stated by the consultants.

[2:59:29] Voice 10: And I just, it's very frustrating

[2:59:32] Voice 10: to go through these exercises

[2:59:34] Voice 10: when we know we need some major destructuring happening.

[2:59:37] Voice 10: But anyways, I'll leave it there.

[2:59:39] Voice 10: I think it's clear what I'm in favor of deploying.

[2:59:42] Voice 10: Thank you.

[2:59:43] Voice 12: Well, the big hope is that we will,

[2:59:45] Voice 12: with corporate planning,

[2:59:46] Voice 12: that the exercise will be less frustrating.

[2:59:49] Voice 12: And for the record, since it was mentioned,

[2:59:53] Voice 12: when Trustee Maude had referred paying out of pocket,

[2:59:55] Voice 12: and then there was a reference that he was probably compensated he and just for the record

[3:00:00] Voice 12: on the chat indicated no he does not seek compensation for that he has not reimbursed

[3:00:06] Voice 12: trustee evans thanks

[3:00:09] Voice 6: um well i also added into the chat like for south pender we we um rent the

[3:00:14] Voice 6: fire hall instead of having a regular office space and we pay about fifty dollars um a day for for

[3:00:21] Voice 6: renting that space um so that's that's uh that and even if you're paying a hundred dollars uh to to

[3:00:27] Voice 6: to rent a community hall or fire halls normally have a space as well.

[3:00:32] Voice 6: So there are other options and 5500 is a lot for, you know,

[3:00:39] Voice 6: a few people to use, especially when it's other agencies.

[3:00:42] Voice 6: And like we said,

[3:00:43] Voice 6: it doesn't seem like we're getting any compensation back for that.

[3:00:48] Voice 6: So I'm just going through this list.

[3:00:50] Voice 6: The ITC ecosystem mapping deferral I'm in favor of.

[3:00:55] Voice 6: The office supplies I'm in favor of, if that can be reduced by that 3,000 as well.

[3:01:00] Voice 6: The Trust Council meeting, if we were to, and I would suggest maybe the December one, but we do have the trust policy statement work coming up too.

[3:01:09] Voice 6: So that's going to require a lot of heavy thinking.

[3:01:12] Voice 6: And I think that's best done in person.

[3:01:14] Voice 6: I know we'll have a special meeting on that one as well.

[3:01:17] Voice 6: So I think those might actually wind up sort of balancing each other out in the end.

[3:01:26] Voice 6: I'm in favor of deferring the bylaw portal until the bylaw enforcement process work has been finished for the same reasons that Trustee Boland suggested.

[3:01:43] Voice 6: suggested, like, if we're going to be taking a look at how we're running the bylaw enforcement

[3:01:48] Voice 6: program, then let's make sure that the information that we're putting into the portal is up to date

[3:01:53] Voice 6: and that we don't have to revamp it shortly after we've actually implemented it. The manager of

[3:01:59] Voice 6: protected areas, there was a position for the Honest Trust Conservancy that was

[3:02:06] Voice 6: filled a few years ago, maybe three years ago, something like that, doing the same

[3:02:13] Voice 6: same work so that that was a manager and now we're getting another person um so i would i would prefer

[3:02:21] Voice 6: to defer that one for a year the gis coordinator i think that's really needed and i would support

[3:02:30] Voice 6: that one going forward the biologist i would support going forward because it's got a grant

[3:02:35] Voice 6: associated with it along with the species at risk and um the co-op student i'm i'm i'm not

[3:02:43] Voice 6: really one way or the other. So those are those are my inputs on this current list. And I think

[3:02:49] Voice 6: I asked earlier about the property management, there was a $50,000 increase there. And whether

[3:02:53] Voice 6: or not what can we do to to help mitigate property management increases? Are we able to negotiate

[3:03:02] Voice 6: longer leases? Are we like, what can we do there to help protect ourselves from future increases?

[3:03:08] Voice 6: pieces. And I think, I'm not sure if Director Mobs can help with answering that last bit or not.

[3:03:15] Voice 12: Right. Thank you. We'll get Director Mobs. I'm going to ask her to make a note of that. And

[3:03:20] Voice 12: just to give everybody a heads up here, we have four speakers. And, you know, we have,

[3:03:26] Voice 12: and then we have including Director Mobs and Director Frater. After Director Frater has

[3:03:31] Voice 12: has said her piece and informed the group.

[3:03:35] Voice 12: I'm going to, you know, we've been at this for a little over a half hour.

[3:03:42] Voice 12: We do have a fair bit of time, but we need to start getting some traction here.

[3:03:45] Voice 12: So after we hear from Director Frater, I'm going to propose that what we'll do is have

[3:03:52] Voice 12: a straw poll just to see where people stand on every one of these items.

[3:03:59] Voice 12: and the idea is those who think whose minds are open to cutting it vote in favor those who are

[3:04:06] Voice 12: adamantly opposed say no if a thing passes it goes into a new column for further discussion

[3:04:12] Voice 12: and the ones that lose because there's a majority that don't want to discuss it well they stay off

[3:04:18] Voice 12: the list and then i'm trying to get some fraction here to sort of move forward so that we can

[3:04:22] Voice 12: actually make some decision so and it's all none of it's binding it's all a straw poll

[3:04:27] Voice 12: And that'll happen after we hear from Director Craven.

[3:04:30] Voice 12: So next speaker will be Trustee Leckham, please.

[3:04:35] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, sir.

[3:04:36] Trustee Luckham: I just want some clarity around the ecosystem protection manager.

[3:04:44] Trustee Luckham: And I've not been not as intimately connected with the Conservancy as I was in the past,

[3:04:50] Trustee Luckham: but there was certainly a movement years ago where properties that were acquired or donated

[3:04:56] Trustee Luckham: donated or provided some level of protection. Also on occasion, then the movement was to seek

[3:05:04] Trustee Luckham: funding from those same people that were donating lands to help cover the administrative costs

[3:05:10] Trustee Luckham: associated with the management of those lands. And so whether or not that is the case,

[3:05:16] Trustee Luckham: there is a responsibility, I think a serious responsibility with lands that we have secured

[3:05:22] Trustee Luckham: secured, or maintained, that we have a responsibility to ensure that we're monitoring

[3:05:26] Trustee Luckham: them and providing maintenance and even bylaw enforcement in situations where it's necessary.

[3:05:32] Trustee Luckham: And so back to the funding piece, is that true that there's funds available to help

[3:05:40] Trustee Luckham: protect these lands in perpetuity, so to speak? And does that therefore reduce our operating cost

[3:05:51] Trustee Luckham: within the Conservancy was the presumption of why we were doing it, and how is that identified?

[3:05:59] Trustee Luckham: Does somebody have an answer to that?

[3:06:04] Voice 12: And I believe that question is being directed to staff.

[3:06:07] Voice 15: Claire, are you on the call?

[3:06:09] Voice 12: Yes, she is, and I'm going to ask Director Frater to keep that

[3:06:13] Voice 12: question in mind and answer it when she gets to her turn. That'll give her some time to actually

[3:06:18] Voice 12: she collect her thoughts as well trustee elliott well

[3:06:22] Voice 19: i i wanted to speak on this point because

[3:06:25] Voice 19: this um the entire business case for uh this staff position was deferred from our last fpc

[3:06:32] Voice 19: meeting and we made a commitment to discuss it at the next one and so if everybody could take

[3:06:40] Voice 19: five minutes and read through from pages 132, there is a huge amount of work that has gone into

[3:06:51] Voice 19: analyzing why the growth in properties acquired by ITC at the direction of Trust Council

[3:07:00] Voice 19: and in accordance with their plans has led to this need for increased capacity,

[3:07:07] Voice 19: capacity that it's not because you know we're willy-nilly wanting to add more staff positions

[3:07:14] Voice 19: this is a critical capacity piece and this is why I asked for the guideline if you go back to our

[3:07:22] Voice 19: very first discussion on the set of guidelines something that is a critical capacity piece

[3:07:29] Voice 19: that's affecting the performance of this body this is that activity this is that staff position

[3:07:37] Voice 19: And so it's not expanding what we already have. It is catching up to be able to manage the properties that we already have acquired and are responsible for managing.

[3:07:51] Voice 19: So there's a lot of work that Director Frater and Kate Emmings have put into this. The cost-benefit analysis is probably one of the more robust ones of all the business cases. And if nobody's read it, then you're not doing your job.

[3:08:07] Voice 19: So we were supposed to discuss it at this meeting.

[3:08:10] Voice 19: Thank you.

[3:08:11] Voice 12: And we are going to discuss it, obviously, in this context.

[3:08:14] Voice 12: So your basic point, Trustee Elliott, is there's major bang for your buck with this one.

[3:08:19] Voice 12: So let's not cut it.

[3:08:22] Voice 12: Director Mox.

[3:08:26] Voice 7: Thanks, Chair.

[3:08:27] Voice 7: So I just had my hand up to respond to some of the comments that have been made.

[3:08:32] Voice 7: So I'll do that now.

[3:08:33] Voice 7: So there's been a couple of comments around the Galliano office and cost recovery.

[3:08:37] Voice 7: So this $5,500 listed does assume the CRD will renew their sublease with us.

[3:08:42] Voice 7: And so that cost is the net cost to Islands Trust.

[3:08:45] Voice 7: The total cost is closer to, I want to say, $10,000 or $11,000.

[3:08:48] Voice 7: So that's the net cost assuming CRD would renew their sublease.

[3:08:52] Voice 7: If we did give up the office space and still needed to use it, I have been in touch with CRD staff in the past.

[3:08:59] Voice 7: They would be very open to subleasing back to us.

[3:09:02] Voice 7: so we could do that in any way that we wanted to structure fewer days in a month

[3:09:07] Voice 7: that might allow us to continue using this space perhaps at less cost.

[3:09:12] Voice 7: In relation to the ITC property management, I just wanted to clarify the actual increase in next year's budget

[3:09:19] Voice 7: is $6,000 over the current year budget, $16,000 over the current year forecast,

[3:09:26] Voice 7: so it's not as significant of a jump as indicated.

[3:09:31] Voice 7: and Director Frater will be best placed to speak to that increase.

[3:09:36] Voice 7: I'll leave it at that.

[3:09:37] Voice 12: Thank you.

[3:09:38] Voice 12: Director Frater?

[3:09:43] Voice 16: Yes, thank you.

[3:09:44] Voice 16: I've tried to keep notes of the points you wish to have addressed.

[3:09:48] Voice 16: One was just that, that the property management budget

[3:09:51] Voice 16: is noted to increase about $6,200.

[3:09:53] Voice 16: I think Trustee Evans noted a much higher figure,

[3:09:57] Voice 16: so I'm not sure perhaps we can find out what that word's referring to.

[3:10:01] Voice 16: And that is informed by a formula,

[3:10:03] Voice 16: So when each new property is taken on, we have a formula that's approved by the board that accounts for whether or not, you know, how difficult it is to access the size of it, its particular needs around infrastructure, that sort of thing.

[3:10:15] Voice 16: And then with regard to a reference to the Conservancy recently having had a staffing increase, we did have a bar chart in the business solution options document that was provided to the board that noted that while we have a new staff position,

[3:10:29] Voice 16: that essentially, not 100%, but largely replaced

[3:10:33] Voice 16: formerly contracted outwork.

[3:10:35] Voice 16: So budget-wise, there was a bit of an increase,

[3:10:37] Voice 16: but it was not a wholesale new position

[3:10:40] Voice 16: to support property management.

[3:10:42] Voice 16: And finally, with regard to Chair Luckham's comment

[3:10:44] Voice 16: around do we ask for donations when we receive properties,

[3:10:48] Voice 16: that largely has been happening when properties

[3:10:51] Voice 16: are required from a local trust committee,

[3:10:53] Voice 16: when it's required as part of a development application,

[3:10:56] Voice 16: then there's a negotiation that goes on

[3:10:58] Voice 16: around endowment funding.

[3:10:59] Voice 16: We also do receive donations to various funds of the board that include things such as a covenant legal defense fund.

[3:11:06] Voice 16: There's currently about 100,000 that's been donated for that.

[3:11:09] Voice 16: We have about 30,000 that's been donated for general property management, but not producing a lot of interest at this point.

[3:11:16] Voice 16: We also have a number of other small funds that people have donated to, but it is not required for voluntary donations.

[3:11:24] Voice 16: And I'd be happy to take further questions around those.

[3:11:29] Voice 12: I see Trustee Boland had her hand up but as I mentioned before I want to have that straw poll

[3:11:34] Voice 12: after we hear from after having heard from Director Frater but before we do that does

[3:11:40] Voice 12: anybody have any questions for Director Frater and that would be Trustee Boland

[3:11:50] Voice 17: so I did read the material prepared and this is very comprehensive I think that you know there's

[3:12:00] Voice 17: huge value to the work and I'm not disputing the reason I am disputing the reasonableness

[3:12:07] Voice 17: of asking the trust area residents to pay for this and I can go through some of your documents

[3:12:16] Voice 17: where you reference um you know if it's if it's high cost that you will you know your screening

[3:12:23] Voice 17: Screening will include screening out properties that are high cost if there isn't a big donation with it.

[3:12:33] Voice 17: And a few other things like that. Those are details. And you've got excellent documents and excellent plans.

[3:12:39] Voice 17: My big question would be, why would you not take this excellent piece of work and go to the province?

[3:12:45] Voice 17: and the province there's been a lot of discussion about the island trust conservancy being a perfect

[3:12:53] Voice 17: sort of ring fenced thing that could be put at the door of the province for funding

[3:12:58] Voice 17: and the work you've done and the you know you go to the province with plans for approval

[3:13:05] Voice 17: and perhaps bring them the budget and say okay guys here's all the work here's the justification

[3:13:11] Voice 17: which is excellent and pay for it rather than have it put on the tax burden of residents of

[3:13:21] Voice 17: the trust area alone many of whom are moderate to low income okay thanks and

[3:13:30] Voice 12: of course the way

[3:13:30] Voice 12: world works we all know that if we fund anything province isn't going to step up i mean because

[3:13:35] Voice 12: it's already covered all right um let's return to the straw poll here the the idea i have and

[3:13:41] Voice 12: and straw poll is spelled with two L's, no E.

[3:13:49] Voice 12: Just by way of show of hands,

[3:13:52] Voice 12: and again, this is for discussion purposes only,

[3:13:55] Voice 12: and the idea is for each item,

[3:13:57] Voice 12: those who support the possibility of cutting it out,

[3:14:01] Voice 12: vote yes, those who are just adamantly opposed

[3:14:03] Voice 12: and don't want to discuss it and think a thing

[3:14:05] Voice 12: just ought to be left alone, get to vote no.

[3:14:08] Voice 12: At the end of the piece,

[3:14:11] Voice 12: we may have something to work with,

[3:14:14] Voice 12: with the things that pass the threshold we see what those numbers look like and maybe we've got

[3:14:19] Voice 12: something to work with there so first item the contingency fund item five thousand dollars

[3:14:23] Voice 12: those in favor of discussing that as a cut please raise your hands and uh i believe that passes uh

[3:14:38] Voice 12: ecosystem mapping uh deferring that those in favor of discussing that as a viable potential cut raise

[3:14:45] Voice 12: Raise your hands, please.

[3:14:50] Voice 12: You're gonna see me voting for pretty much everything

[3:14:52] Voice 12: by the way.

[3:14:57] Voice 12: Those who are in favor of reducing office supply

[3:15:02] Voice 12: by $3,000, please raise your hands.

[3:15:04] Voice 12: Is everybody done?

[3:15:12] Voice 12: Everybody voted?

[3:15:14] Voice 12: Thank you.

[3:15:16] Voice 12: Those in favor of potentially cutting out

[3:15:19] Voice 12: the Galliano office, if you have a hundred dollars,

[3:15:22] Voice 12: please raise your hands.

[3:15:35] Voice 12: Those who are in favor of,

[3:15:39] Voice 12: well, we'd have to ask the trust council this,

[3:15:41] Voice 12: but those who are in favor of bringing a budget basically to trust council that defies its

[3:15:47] Voice 12: previous direction and we tell them they can't have what they want and we could do that and by

[3:15:53] Voice 12: reducing either by one or two meetings those in favor of having that discussion please raise your

[3:15:58] Voice 12: hands so do we have the votes there what's uh somebody's recording them i hope uh stewardship

[3:16:16] Voice 12: education please raise your hands if you are in favor of potentially dealing with that

[3:16:30] Voice 12: next item history and heritage grants in a ten thousand dollars hands up or down as you wish

[3:16:42] Voice 12: okay

[3:16:43] Voice 20: communications that's

[3:16:55] Voice 12: interesting uh we haven't talked about this but there was a proposed

[3:17:01] Voice 12: idea of knocking off fifty thousand dollars from the salt spring office relocation and we're

[3:17:06] Voice 12: obviously gonna have to hear from the ceo about that one uh but we must and we haven't explored

[3:17:11] Voice 12: board that yet but might as well put it up for a vote now anyhow those in favor of potentially

[3:17:15] Voice 12: knocking fifty thousand dollars off that item how can we

[3:17:18] Voice 20: sorry here yep

[3:17:21] Voice 12: i

[3:17:24] Voice 19: i can't vote on this

[3:17:25] Voice 19: because we haven't discussed it and there's a new business case in in the agenda so um i i i'm not

[3:17:32] Voice 19: ready to vote on this one uh

[3:17:34] Voice 12: okay um nor am

[3:17:39] Voice 12: i all right let's defer dealing with that one for now

[3:17:41] Voice 12: No, let's skip over.

[3:17:43] Voice 12: Bylaw portal, we already had that,

[3:17:46] Voice 12: discussed that to some extent.

[3:17:47] Voice 12: Please raise your hands if you think that's a potential cut

[3:17:49] Voice 12: or the deferral of it is a potential cut.

[3:17:56] Voice 17: Can I just clarify, are the, you know,

[3:18:02] Voice 17: the additional reasons, you know,

[3:18:04] Voice 17: it's not just a junket, for instance,

[3:18:08] Voice 17: in the reasons around the proposed cuts,

[3:18:13] Voice 17: are they being captured as well?

[3:18:15] Voice 17: because otherwise we'll have to repeat them all in front of trust council so can we like if we

[3:18:21] Voice 17: reduce this can we create a sort of a short summary of the reasoning behind the proposed

[3:18:29] Voice 17: proposal i'll

[3:18:31] Voice 12: leave it well i'm sure we can do i'm sure we can do that but i don't think we're

[3:18:34] Voice 12: anywhere close to having reasons because

[3:18:36] Voice 17: we actually haven't

[3:18:36] Voice 12: decided anything okay

[3:18:38] Voice 17: that's fine

[3:18:39] Voice 17: yeah

[3:18:39] Voice 12: thanks uh manager of the protected areas which we just discussed please raise your hands

[3:18:44] Voice 12: if you think that's something that can be deferred or alternatively seek funding elsewhere uh next

[3:18:55] Voice 12: item uh yes i'm

[3:18:59] Voice 15: sorry mr chair what was the result there for who's who's counting is it nancy

[3:19:05] Voice 12: uh it wasn't me

[3:19:06] Voice 5: uh it's on the screen yes i'm counting and putting it up on the screen

[3:19:11] Voice 5: so

[3:19:12] Voice 15: what would be uh just sorry mr chair

[3:19:14] Voice 5: yes

[3:19:15] Voice 15: ceo uh what's what's a no then three

[3:19:21] Voice 5: Well, anything below,

[3:19:23] Voice 5: you've got 10 members, right?

[3:19:25] Voice 5: So is it not anything below five is a no?

[3:19:28] Voice 15: Then how can it be yes equals four?

[3:19:30] Voice 15: I'm just

[3:19:31] Voice 15: saying that's

[3:19:32] Voice 5: how many people voted yes.

[3:19:34] Voice 5: That's all I'm recording right now.

[3:19:37] Voice 5: Nobody's voting no.

[3:19:40] Voice 15: That's not helpful, though.

[3:19:41] Voice 12: Okay.

[3:19:43] Voice 15: You're

[3:19:44] Voice 12: going to have to

[3:19:44] Voice 12: do it again.

[3:19:44] Voice 12: I'm assuming those who vote yes will not vote no.

[3:19:48] Voice 12: and those who inclined to vote no will not vote yes so that if we've got yes is four that means

[3:19:54] Voice 12: the no's are six okay let's

[3:19:57] Voice 12: remember this is a straw poll for the purposes of of helping us

[3:20:02] Voice 12: focus on the items that we think we can get some traction on so it's a work in process progress

[3:20:09] Voice 12: here uh the gis coordinator position if we could please uh have a vote on that please raise your

[3:20:15] Voice 12: hands if you think it's worth considering deferring or canceling or something okay

[3:20:24] Voice 20: and

[3:20:27] Voice 12: it seems to me if we have these positions are grant funded uh uh i think we need some

[3:20:37] Voice 12: clarification here are these funds these grant funded positions uh are those grants capable of

[3:20:45] Voice 12: being mobilized in a different direction to fund other things or are we bound to spend it on these

[3:20:53] Voice 12: items because if they cannot be spent on any other item then there's no point re attempting cutting

[3:21:01] Voice 12: these because we can't reallocate the funds uh would

[3:21:10] Voice 16: you like director freighter

[3:21:11] Voice 12: perhaps director

[3:21:12] Voice 12: freighter or uh i

[3:21:14] Voice 16: i can speak to that if you like chair thank

[3:21:16] Voice 12: you certainly

[3:21:18] Voice 16: um no they cannot easily

[3:21:20] Voice 16: be allocated they're part of existing one is a contribution agreement with Environment Canada

[3:21:24] Voice 16: and the other is a proposal that's been put in specific for that position so no easy reallocation

[3:21:30] Voice 12: okay and that's in that case I'm going to suggest that we move those two line items down below

[3:21:35] Voice 12: because they're not they're not capable of making a difference to the budget bottom line here or the

[3:21:41] Voice 12: the tax issue then we're down with the uh ps or so the co-op student issue whether or not

[3:21:49] Voice 12: we ought to consider uh knocking that out uh those in favor of at least contemplating that

[3:21:57] Voice 12: possibility please raise your hands actually that's the one i'm actually not going to vote

[3:22:00] Voice 12: favor anyhow anybody else please vote those in favor okay there we have it um where we're at now

[3:22:11] Voice 12: Now is let's only discuss the ones where there's a majority.

[3:22:17] Voice 12: And yeah, that's helpful to highlight them.

[3:22:20] Voice 12: And before we do that, as Presti Elliott pointed out, there is a business case.

[3:22:28] Voice 12: It wasn't previously discussed.

[3:22:32] Voice 12: Let's get an update from the CAO on what's happening on the office relocation, what the latest and greatest numbers are.

[3:22:43] Voice 12: and to hear from him about the feasibility of this $50,000 possible reduction.

[3:22:49] Voice 12: Please proceed, CAO.

[3:22:51] Voice 15: Okay.

[3:22:55] Voice 15: Well, I'd request that you turn to page 112,

[3:22:58] Voice 15: and I'll ask Stefan, who wrote most of this, frankly, to join me.

[3:23:03] Voice 15: Obviously, it took up a fair amount of interest at your last meeting.

[3:23:08] Voice 15: And frankly, Julia's run a lot of numbers as well.

[3:23:10] Voice 15: So it took up a lot of your mind space at our last meeting. Since we saw you last, we have had a site visit, a number of site visits, but we toured Salt Spring Island. We looked at a number of leaseholds. We looked at some more institutional spaces. And we also looked at, there remains one slightly encumbered property that would be available for sale.

[3:23:36] Voice 15: all so we looked at those um to the degree we could and we also expanded the the actual business

[3:23:44] Voice 15: case to more generally talk about the more robust options and what would be associated with each of

[3:23:50] Voice 15: those options and hopefully this provides you a little bit more clarity if not in the specifics

[3:23:59] Voice 15: about let's go buy this or at least this at least the relative opportunity costs with with going in

[3:24:06] Voice 15: each direction overall having looked at a number of sites without turning it into an a place where

[3:24:14] Voice 15: staff and citizens don't want to be we think that we can get the budget from 210 down to the

[3:24:20] Voice 15: 160 170 range so that's what the um the offering on the table is um and we can do that by um

[3:24:29] Voice 15: switching some of the um the priorities around some of the amendments or amenities the amenities

[3:24:36] Voice 15: associated with there what would be one well normally a public office has a counter um that's

[3:24:43] Voice 15: pretty much standard business maybe we'd look at it an alternative um i will tell you most lease

[3:24:49] Voice 15: spaces there are none that look like an office when you walk in them on salt spring island if

[3:24:56] Voice 15: you're here in victoria and enamo or somewhere else you'd be able to walk into a place that

[3:24:59] Voice 15: already has some form associated with being an office um so that's part of the challenge we've

[3:25:04] Voice 15: got. So I know one of the questions that was, so if you go to page 114 and 115, so I'm kind

[3:25:16] Voice 15: of covering over the whole range of considerations. I'm going to ask Julia to help us a little bit

[3:25:24] Voice 15: with around the notion of, if you want, do you want to go down the road of discussing how you

[3:25:31] Voice 15: you access funds to spend on a purchase as opposed to a lease or is the

[3:25:38] Voice 15: reporting associated with

[3:25:40] Voice 15: this um is it of enough detail that uh that the group understands it

[3:25:46] Voice 12: let's hear from director

[3:25:47] Voice 12: bobs uh

[3:25:51] Voice 7: sure happy to um so i believe this committee has been briefed on the limitations

[3:25:56] Voice 7: that islands trust experience in terms of borrowing um that might have just been an

[3:26:03] Voice 7: executive committee

[3:26:04] Voice 15: that was an executive so this group doesn't

[3:26:06] Voice 7: okay that was an executive committee

[3:26:07] Voice 7: yeah okay so just to summarize then for financial planning committee there are some limitations

[3:26:11] Voice 7: on the ability for islands trust to borrow funds um that those limitations are rooted in legislation

[3:26:19] Voice 7: we have sought a legal opinion on that um so unfortunately any borrowing that we're able to

[3:26:24] Voice 7: access would be limited to about 105 000 which does not get you very far in this real estate

[3:26:29] Voice 7: state market if you're looking to purchase a building. Because of those limitations, we would

[3:26:34] Voice 7: be looking to use surplus monies in the event that Trust Council wished to purchase a building.

[3:26:41] Voice 7: So we've talked about what, or in the report, we've talked a little bit about what that would

[3:26:46] Voice 7: look like and whether or not we have enough funds to even think about making a capital asset

[3:26:51] Voice 7: purchase. The short of it is that we do have enough in surplus funds to make a capital purchase

[3:26:57] Voice 7: within limits probably around 1.5 million dollars that number shifts sort

[3:27:02] Voice 7: of daily as spending adjusts but that's some our best current estimates a draw

[3:27:07] Voice 7: from surplus funds for the purchase of an asset does mean that we would be

[3:27:11] Voice 7: falling well below the policy minimums that are required for the general

[3:27:15] Voice 7: revenue surplus fund so we are required to keep about two and a half months of

[3:27:20] Voice 7: cash in the surplus fund so that we can fund operations from the start of the

[3:27:24] Voice 7: fiscal year to July when we receive our property taxes. We would not be at risk of running short

[3:27:31] Voice 7: on cash in that time frame if we were to limit purchasing below $1.5 million. But of course,

[3:27:37] Voice 7: the surplus balance would be well below policy minimum, and we would need to be rebuilding it

[3:27:41] Voice 7: over time if that policy minimum were to be retained. Generally, the way that you rebuild

[3:27:46] Voice 7: a surplus balance or any reserve balance is to make contributions to it. So we would have an

[3:27:51] Voice 7: expense line in the budget for a number of years, five years, 10 years, whatever council determined

[3:27:56] Voice 7: to bring money in for the purpose of rebuilding that surplus balance.

[3:28:02] Voice 7: There would or should be a requirement to create and maintain a capital reserve fund if you are

[3:28:10] Voice 7: going to purchase and own a building. That is to make sure that you have enough funds in your

[3:28:16] Voice 7: savings account, if you will, to actually maintain the building as various pieces of work are

[3:28:20] Voice 7: required. So if you know that you have a roof replacement on your asset in five years, you want

[3:28:25] Voice 7: to be building the capital reserve fund balance to make sure that you have enough funds to pay for

[3:28:29] Voice 7: that roof replacement instead of having a significant cash or significant tax increase in

[3:28:34] Voice 7: that single year. So building up a capital reserve balance also would take time. Also understanding

[3:28:40] Voice 7: how much should be in that capital reserve fund would be contingent upon whatever building is

[3:28:45] Voice 7: purchased. So if your building is quite old and requires a lot of maintenance, you probably

[3:28:49] Voice 7: probably need to build a more robust reserve balance versus if you've purchased something

[3:28:55] Voice 7: new. So it's difficult to speak to how much would be required in that reserve fund without knowing

[3:28:59] Voice 7: the asset that's being purchased. Hopefully that's enough detail. Well,

[3:29:04] Voice 15: Julia, could you

[3:29:05] Voice 15: just take us

[3:29:06] Voice 15: to page, we might as well finish this portion off, page 118, where we just did the comparative

[3:29:11] Voice 15: financial analysis around leasing versus buying over a timeframe. I think that that pointed

[3:29:18] Voice 15: comparison would be useful for the committee?

[3:29:24] Voice 7: Sure. So we did a very, very rudimentary

[3:29:29] Voice 7: calculation in this business case. It really is just here just to highlight that the longer you

[3:29:35] Voice 7: hold a capital asset, if you purchase it, the more beneficial it is in terms of cash outlay.

[3:29:43] Voice 7: So of course, when you lease a building, you're paying cash, you're not getting anything back for

[3:29:47] Voice 7: that cash that you paid for in terms of building equity or asset ownership. And so it's considered

[3:29:53] Voice 7: a sunk cost. When you own the building, of course, you are actually gaining equity and you

[3:30:00] Voice 7: were gaining asset ownership for those costs. And over time, we've looked at a 10-year, a 15-year,

[3:30:05] Voice 7: and a 20-year time horizon in this calculation. We see that if you look at 10 years versus 15

[3:30:10] Voice 7: years versus 20 years, 10 years and 15 years tend to have lower costs if you are leasing,

[3:30:16] Voice 7: whereas once you hold an asset for 20 years, now it flips and it's more beneficial to be

[3:30:22] Voice 7: owning. This is just a very rudimentary analysis. It's just an illustrative assessment. There's a

[3:30:30] Voice 7: lot of assumptions built into that around how much is required for operating costs versus

[3:30:35] Voice 7: maintenance costs, purchase price, all of that good stuff. It does not consider any recovered

[3:30:42] Voice 7: cash if you were to sell the asset. One of the positives about owning an asset, of course,

[3:30:48] Voice 7: is being able to use that equity for leveraging, understanding the limitations that the island's

[3:30:52] Voice 7: trust has to obtain debt financing, that's a bit of a limited benefit in our context.

[3:30:58] Voice 12: If you can clarify something, Director Mobs, you went by it pretty quickly.

[3:31:03] Voice 12: Just to be clear, this little diagram is addressing operating costs, not capital costs.

[3:31:11] Voice 12: So we hit a breakeven point with the lease.

[3:31:15] Voice 12: The operating costs include the cost of the lease, obviously.

[3:31:21] Voice 12: Buying it, you have operating costs.

[3:31:23] Voice 12: and i understand you to be saying somewhere past 15 years looks like somewhere between 15 and 17

[3:31:28] Voice 12: years at the operating cost level we hit break even where they're they they kind of match up

[3:31:36] Voice 12: like if you purchase it it matches up to at a little over 15 years or so it's going to match

[3:31:42] Voice 12: up to what the operating cost would be uh in 20 years uh with a lease so you start ending up

[3:31:50] Voice 12: getting ahead that way somewhere around 15 17 years if you purchase but if i understand you

[3:31:57] Voice 12: correctly that's not addressing the value of the property when you sell the capital appreciation

[3:32:03] Voice 12: is that right so in fact it's not even taking into account the net capital cost so on sale

[3:32:11] Voice 12: all of these numbers are irrelevant it's just like on sale you get the capital cost back

[3:32:15] Voice 12: plus whatever there's capital appreciation on top of these numbers that's

[3:32:22] Voice 7: right um and if we

[3:32:23] Voice 7: we were in the business of investing it would be more appropriate to include um that in the analysis

[3:32:28] Voice 7: um i've made the assumption that the intent would be to purchase a building and hold it for the

[3:32:33] Voice 7: longer term um and so that's why any future proceeds of a sale are not included here um

[3:32:39] Voice 7: one of the things again i just want to mention there's been some just like wild assumptions

[3:32:45] Voice 7: built into this calculation because we do not know how much uh annual maintenance costs would

[3:32:51] Voice 7: be for any specific asset we've purchased. There's an estimate that's been included at $15,000 per

[3:32:57] Voice 7: year. That could be much more or much less, just depending on the asset we've included.

[3:33:07] Voice 12: I'm going to

[3:33:08] Voice 12: stop the discussion at this point, or I've interrupted this juncture in the interest

[3:33:12] Voice 12: of saving time. But just to remind everybody the meaning that what we've heard from the CEO and

[3:33:17] Voice 12: and Director Mobbs are contingencies and factors

[3:33:21] Voice 12: that have to be dealt with if and when Trust Council

[3:33:26] Voice 12: gets to the decision point of wanting to consider

[3:33:30] Voice 12: choosing between lease versus purchase.

[3:33:34] Voice 12: That's not a decision we're making today.

[3:33:37] Voice 12: That's not even a recommendation

[3:33:38] Voice 12: that's within our purview at this juncture.

[3:33:41] Voice 12: What we're looking at today is approving a budget

[3:33:44] Voice 12: to take the trust council in March.

[3:33:47] Voice 12: And we have a business case in front of us

[3:33:50] Voice 12: that contemplates that if we proceed with the lease option,

[3:33:55] Voice 12: we've been told it's conceivable to knock off $50,000.

[3:34:00] Voice 12: It's basically reducing it down from that.

[3:34:02] Voice 12: So I'm hearing that's available to us if we want it.

[3:34:05] Voice 12: Trustee Patrick.

[3:34:07] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, well, I think in some ways we are proposing

[3:34:11] Trustee Patrick: or making a decision on buying versus leasing.

[3:34:14] Trustee Patrick: and I would support that the leasing.

[3:34:16] Trustee Patrick: I think buying, we need to think about that long.

[3:34:21] Trustee Patrick: Right now, they're looking at one building.

[3:34:23] Trustee Patrick: Had we had the benefit to have our Ganges Village planning done,

[3:34:26] Trustee Patrick: we would find that the sea level rise is probably going to impact

[3:34:30] Trustee Patrick: the location of the one building that is on the market.

[3:34:33] Trustee Patrick: So it may not be there in 20 years.

[3:34:35] Trustee Patrick: So I think that's something we need to take our time at doing.

[3:34:39] Trustee Patrick: So I think it is leasing.

[3:34:40] Trustee Patrick: And if the CAO supports taking $50,000 off,

[3:34:44] Trustee Patrick: I support that as well.

[3:34:46] Voice 8: Trustee Graham?

[3:34:49] Voice 8: Yes, thanks, Chair.

[3:34:50] Voice 8: The only question I have, and the CAO mentioned that if you went to any city, I presume you meant Victoria or Nanaimo, there is a glut of commercial buildings.

[3:35:03] Voice 8: You'd have your choice.

[3:35:04] Voice 8: You'd be able to pick one that really would work.

[3:35:06] Voice 8: Would it not make more sense to move the Salt Spring Island work to a space that is already ready to, you know, the building is exactly what you want.

[3:35:19] Voice 8: So you're not spending $170,000 making a silk purse out of a sow's ear and give you some time to look at Salt Spring and take the time to have the conversation at Trust Council as to whether a long-term lease or a purchase is the way to go.

[3:35:37] Voice 8: It obviously doesn't make sense to purchase when there's only one building for sale.

[3:35:41] Voice 8: I mean, the odds of that building being absolutely perfect are astronomically not going to happen.

[3:35:48] Voice 8: So you want

[3:35:48] Voice 8: to have time. You want to have time to do a proper planning, a proper examination of the commercial lease opportunities in Salt Spring or the purchase opportunities, having had that Conversation Trust Council.

[3:35:59] Voice 8: In the meantime, you've got staff working in a building that did not require $170,000 for the leasehold improvements, and they can start work day one.

[3:36:08] Voice 8: It's just a suggestion. I don't know why this hasn't been suggested from your end.

[3:36:13] Voice 8: I

[3:36:14] Voice 15: don't recommend it, no.

[3:36:16] Voice 15: I think that I acknowledge your point,

[3:36:19] Voice 15: but you're making it deeper than I believe.

[3:36:23] Voice 15: When we went into the marketplace here in Victoria

[3:36:27] Voice 15: for this office space, there are places that have,

[3:36:32] Voice 15: there are just more options, not necessarily you can walk

[3:36:35] Voice 15: into anywhere and have everything laid out for you.

[3:36:37] Voice 15: That's not the case.

[3:36:38] Voice 15: A lot of it's older.

[3:36:40] Voice 15: builder um so there would likely be some renovations at some point um we are decreasing

[3:36:46] Voice 15: the square footage of the offering instead of from where we're at to where we're going by i

[3:36:51] Voice 15: think a fairly significant margin the numbers you've got in here for like the the monthly lease

[3:36:56] Voice 15: costs i'm quite confident are going to be less than this by by a fair amount so i think it's

[3:37:02] Voice 15: going to be a reasonable uh you know if you're coming in at you know 150 to 200 a square foot

[3:37:10] Voice 15: on a commercial renovation piece like that's not in this day and age it's not a an outrageous

[3:37:17] Voice 15: concept wherever you go um so the smaller footprint at that cost i think it's reasonable

[3:37:24] Voice 15: to have it on salt spring we could have it anywhere south of campbell river um you know

[3:37:30] Voice 15: just using access to other buildings uh but i guess the key point is that you know this is the

[3:37:36] Voice 15: 50th biggest conglomeration of of people um in the province um that have a planning function

[3:37:45] Voice 15: they do show up at our office on a on a regular basis um that's 12 000 people the governance

[3:37:52] Voice 15: report supported the idea of having a presence on on salt spring it's it's it's half of the

[3:37:57] Voice 15: population of the islands trust um so those are the key reasons why just looking at somewhere on

[3:38:03] Voice 15: Vancouver Island wasn't a consideration that was put forward it was it was thought through but

[3:38:10] Voice 15: briefly okay

[3:38:13] Voice 12: well what I'm hearing is operationally a decision was made that it didn't make sense

[3:38:17] Voice 12: and so let's not belabor it here because this isn't actually the forum where that kind of

[3:38:22] Voice 12: decision gets made although it's it's useful to have that information for the purposes of our

[3:38:26] Voice 12: budgetary decision making I see Trustee Boland has her hand up after we hear from Trustee Boland

[3:38:32] Voice 12: I'm going to ask that we return back to the other screen we had,

[3:38:36] Voice 12: go back to the grid and then have our straw poll on this item

[3:38:40] Voice 12: and then get into discussing that.

[3:38:42] Voice 12: Trustee Bond.

[3:38:44] Voice 17: I like what Trustee Graham suggested.

[3:38:48] Voice 17: A location in Saanich, Sydney area would be very accessible by South Spring,

[3:38:54] Voice 17: but would also allow another 5,000 people on the other southern Gulf Islands

[3:38:59] Voice 17: easier access than currently.

[3:39:03] Voice 17: For anybody to go from any of the Gulf Islands into Victoria is not very convenient, but

[3:39:11] Voice 17: to go to Schwartz Bay and a location nearby would be quite convenient.

[3:39:17] Voice 17: Thanks.

[3:39:19] Voice 12: Thank you.

[3:39:20] Voice 12: I ask now that we return to the other screen where we had our little spreadsheet of potential

[3:39:27] Voice 12: reductions.

[3:39:32] Voice 12: And if we could return back, you know, we've had that discussion about the office relocation.

[3:39:39] Voice 12: We've heard from the CIO that he thinks that $50,000 there is feasible because his staff

[3:39:46] Voice 12: has retuned the leasing option that they're exploring.

[3:39:50] Voice 12: So let's have a vote on whether or not we want to include that in the list of potential

[3:39:55] Voice 12: reductions.

[3:39:56] Voice 12: Please raise your hands.

[3:39:57] Voice 12: Can I

[3:39:58] Voice 12: clarify, please?

[3:39:59] Voice 12: Just a moment.

[3:40:00] Voice 12: We're in the middle of a vote.

[3:40:01] Voice 12: let's just deal with that first all right thank you all right could we record the vote

[3:40:10] Voice 12: well the question

[3:40:12] Voice 17: was question which is the first one

[3:40:14] Voice 12: hang on hang on we are voting please

[3:40:19] Voice 12: trustee like i'm asked a question he wants to what we're voting on what we're voting on is whether or

[3:40:23] Voice 12: not we wish to consider reducing the line item for the salt spring office relocation if we want to

[3:40:32] Voice 12: include a reduction of $50,000 in our potential reductions. It's not to decide that we are

[3:40:42] Voice 12: actually going to do it or not, but it's like, is it, does it survive the first cut? So.

[3:40:48] Trustee Luckham: And for clarity, if you don't mind, that is supported by staff.

[3:40:52] Voice 12: Yes. Thank you.

[3:40:54] Voice 12: So we had the vote. Has that been recorded by?

[3:40:59] Trustee Luckham: Oh, I don't know that we voted yet. I didn't get the vote.

[3:41:03] Voice 12: Well, maybe you didn't put your hand up, but let's, I see Ms. Rogers has her hand up, please.

[3:41:08] Voice 5: Sorry, can you vote again? There was people putting their hands up to ask questions and all sorts of things, so I don't know what the vote was. Thank you.

[3:41:16] Voice 12: All right, Trustee Luck, you're in luck. We're going to do that vote again. Those in favor of having a discussion about cutting $50,000 out of the budget per this line item, please raise your hands. Thank you.

[3:41:37] Voice 12: Okay, now that we have that, we actually have moved forward a couple of feet in the direction

[3:41:43] Voice 12: of making decisions. Trustee Boland, you have your hand up.

[3:41:48] Voice 17: I just like clarity about where we are

[3:41:51] Voice 17: exactly in the process of including or not including. Like we've been voting on yes to

[3:41:59] Voice 17: further discussion or consideration, and things have dropped out of the list because of that,

[3:42:05] Voice 17: out, but are they gone from the list entirely? Have we voted finally on those things?

[3:42:15] Voice 12: Look, I thought it was clear about this before. This is a decision-making tool. If it turns out

[3:42:21] Voice 12: in the course of the meeting that we want to go back to something, we can go back to it.

[3:42:25] Voice 12: And for that purpose, it's helpful to have those items reproduced below, like we do here. So I'm

[3:42:31] Voice 12: to suggest that those items that did not get a majority vote be included on the list but below

[3:42:39] Voice 12: so that if it turns out that we need to look at them again we can but the idea is let's look at

[3:42:45] Voice 12: the items that we have some support for cutting let's look at them now we have three a little

[3:42:52] Voice 12: less than three hours and we have a budget to deliver in march so let's get to work uh

[3:43:00] Voice 12: I'm going to suggest that we renew the discussion of these items. And then the next step is to

[3:43:08] Voice 12: actually vote on those individual items as potential cuts. And the way I propose to deal

[3:43:14] Voice 12: with this is to go in order of the items that got the most votes. So the first one we're going to

[3:43:23] Voice 12: look at is go back to the Salt Spring office relocation. We can have further debate on that.

[3:43:31] Voice 12: it's up to you guys but if once we've exhausted debate on that item and it's a pretty important

[3:43:37] Voice 12: one i'm going to suggest that we call a vote on whether or not um it is uh uh incorporated into

[3:43:46] Voice 12: the budget that reduction fifty thousand dollars but not yet the floor is open for further

[3:43:51] Voice 12: discussion about that point and as trustee like i'm pointed out it's something that has trust

[3:43:56] Voice 12: staff support. Okay. Trustee Evans.

[3:44:01] Voice 6: Thank you. I'm in favor of headed to the vote relatively soon

[3:44:06] Voice 6: after the information that was received from staff. It did help clarify a lot of points. So

[3:44:13] Voice 6: I'm happy with the information received.

[3:44:15] Voice 12: All right. Thank you. Trustee Bowen.

[3:44:19] Voice 17: I'm happy too,

[3:44:20] Voice 17: but I suggest we do a yes, no vote when we vote absolutely for remove or keep.

[3:44:29] Voice 12: thanks well

[3:44:30] Voice 12: my strategy would be to just have another show of hands and then when when we get

[3:44:34] Voice 12: to the final collection we'll have a single resolution that just adopts that little short

[3:44:42] Voice 12: list uh instead of just having like a zillion separate resolutions trustee evans um

[3:44:50] Voice 6: yeah that's

[3:44:51] Voice 6: that's fine as long as the well no i'm going to say no each one of these now we should we should

[3:44:58] Voice 6: to have a vote recorded with yes and no because people can abstain if they abstain that's a yes

[3:45:04] Voice 6: so if they're

[3:45:05] Voice 6: abstaining that's not counted as a yes and that needs to be counted in the votes

[3:45:10] Voice 12: all right well and of course that will have the benefit if everybody gets to have their vote

[3:45:13] Voice 12: recorded for the or they get to separately vote for these items as they wish um we have heard

[3:45:20] Voice 12: from trustee evans that she thinks that we've had enough discussion uh trustee evans if we want if

[3:45:25] Voice 12: If you want to have that vote that you're talking about, a formal vote, that requires a motion by somebody.

[3:45:29] Voice 12: Yes, I am.

[3:45:30] Voice 12: I move

[3:45:35] Voice 17: that the vote for the reduction items for the budget should be per item and should record yes and no.

[3:45:49] Voice 12: Okay, I'm not quite sure I understand that.

[3:45:53] Voice 12: We don't need a resolution for that.

[3:45:55] Voice 12: That's just how we can choose to, you know, we can simply proceed in that fashion.

[3:46:00] Voice 17: OK, fine. So

[3:46:02] Voice 12: can we have a resolution with respect? And I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding something here, but I'm assuming you're agreeing with where Trustee Evans was at.

[3:46:09] Voice 17: Yes.

[3:46:10] Voice 12: So we need a resolution with respect to the Salt Spring Island relocation.

[3:46:16] Voice 12: Trustee Elliott.

[3:46:21] Voice 19: Sorry, but I actually don't see the point of recording yes or no votes unless it's for political reasons that you want the public to know why certain people support some things and some do not.

[3:46:31] Voice 19: the the point of this committee is to make a recommendation as a committee to trust council

[3:46:38] Voice 19: this is not about political grandstanding you stand for this program or not so i would suggest

[3:46:43] Voice 19: that you don't record yeses or noes this is about coming together on a draft budget that we can

[3:46:49] Voice 19: present to trust trust council all

[3:46:52] Voice 12: right well we don't have to record the votes but it's um

[3:46:54] Voice 12: other than it'll show on the public record if somebody wants to go to the trouble of watching

[3:46:59] Voice 12: to take but the point the key point that trustee evans was making was let's make a final decision

[3:47:06] Voice 12: when we vote on any one of these items let's make a final decision yes or no then move on

[3:47:11] Voice 12: to the next one and then we'll have a collection of things that staff can work with all right

[3:47:17] Voice 12: so do we have a resolution somebody as to whether or not this fifty thousand dollars

[3:47:22] Voice 12: ought to be taken out of the budget trustee evans sorry

[3:47:26] Voice 6: um i'm kind of agreeing with you

[3:47:28] Voice 6: on one point but not in another. I think we can have a yes no vote on each one of these things

[3:47:33] Voice 6: without making a resolution. We should just simply record the yes and no votes. At the end we can do

[3:47:38] Voice 6: a single resolution to adopt the items that have passed but we need the yes and no so that we can

[3:47:44] Voice 6: record those that are abstaining and that become yeses.

[3:47:47] Voice 12: Yes okay that's actually what I was

[3:47:51] Voice 12: that's the direction I wanted to go in the first place. I'm sorry I misunderstood what you said

[3:47:55] Voice 12: before all right let's have a vote with respect what i'm hearing is we don't need to have a formal

[3:48:01] Voice 12: resolution and emotion and all that jazz for each one of these things we're going to go through them

[3:48:04] Voice 12: one by one and the votes are going to be recorded are the numbers you know five five five six

[3:48:12] Voice 12: whatever that number five you know six four whatever they happen to be and so we're going

[3:48:18] Voice 12: to repeat the show of hands business to create a potential list that will go into a resolution

[3:48:25] Voice 12: So, if we may have a show of hands of those who support removing $50,000 from the budget

[3:48:34] Voice 12: from the line item for the Salt Spring office relocation, please raise your hands.

[3:48:43] Voice 12: Those, please lower your hands. Those opposed, please raise your hands. None. All right,

[3:48:53] Voice 12: $50,000 goes into the cutting list, and I believe that was, what, 10 votes in favor?

[3:49:01] Voice 12: oh no two votes against i missed them all right thank you um let's go to the the galliano office

[3:49:12] Voice 12: because there were nine sorry

[3:49:13] Voice 6: point point point of point of um something um i think two people

[3:49:18] Voice 6: were slow and and putting their hands down i all

[3:49:23] Voice 12: right uh for the benefit of just being clear on

[3:49:26] Voice 12: the record here with respect to that last uh show of hands does anybody can any anybody

[3:49:35] Voice 12: Anybody who opposes it, please show your hands.

[3:49:42] Voice 12: It appears Trustee Evans is correct

[3:49:44] Voice 12: and the vote was actually 10-0, thank you.

[3:49:47] Voice 12: Next, moving to the trustee office in Galliano.

[3:49:51] Voice 12: We're going to do the same exercise here

[3:49:53] Voice 12: unless people want to discuss it further, no.

[3:49:59] Voice 12: Okay, show of hands now as to those who think

[3:50:02] Voice 12: that we basically ought to back away

[3:50:04] Voice 12: from the trustee office in Galliano and save that $5,500.

[3:50:07] Voice 12: hundred dollars uh those in favor please raise your hands please lower your hands and those who

[3:50:24] Voice 12: are opposed please raise your hands

[3:50:29] Voice 9: there's two opposed okay

[3:50:31] Voice 12: it appears we have some abstentions

[3:50:35] Voice 12: yeah

[3:50:36] Voice 9: abstentions will be yeses does

[3:50:40] Voice 12: that mean on this list that we should be uh and i've received

[3:50:44] Voice 12: a note from mr bartle there's actually 11 members on fpc that are are we missing somebody no so um

[3:50:56] Voice 12: Should that number at line item 9, should that be 11-0 then?

[3:51:02] Voice 9: If I may, Mr. Chair?

[3:51:04] Voice 9: Yes.

[3:51:04] Voice 9: Can I just record the yeses and the noes?

[3:51:08] Voice 9: Okay.

[3:51:08] Voice 9: And then if the abstains, we'll count towards yeses.

[3:51:13] Voice 9: So the noes will have to be more than six for anyone to fill.

[3:51:17] Voice 12: Okay.

[3:51:18] Voice 12: That's good enough.

[3:51:19] Voice 12: All right.

[3:51:21] Voice 12: Moving on to the contingency fund because they got eight votes.

[3:51:24] Voice 12: votes. Those in favour of knocking off that $5,000, please raise your hands. Please lower

[3:51:38] Voice 12: your hands. Those opposed, please raise your hands. All right. Please record the vote.

[3:51:51] Voice 12: All right. Yes.

[3:51:55] Voice 7: Just for the purposes of vote counting, I think it's easier if you can raise your

[3:51:58] Voice 7: electronic hand if that's workable. I think that's why we're

[3:52:03] Voice 12: missing.

[3:52:04] Voice 12: missing right

[3:52:05] Voice 12: okay uh and david

[3:52:07] Voice 7: marler there's been a yeah that would help and

[3:52:10] Voice 7: uh david if you

[3:52:11] Voice 7: could actually count verbally that would help nancy thanks

[3:52:15] Voice 12: absolutely yes thank you thank you

[3:52:17] Voice 12: for those suggestions um let's move to the next one that had uh you know uh eight votes in support

[3:52:24] Voice 12: of that debate um office supplies denying staff as many pens you know the the cornucopia of pencils

[3:52:32] Voice 12: the amount of joy um those in favor of knocking down that 3 000 please raise your hands i'm

[3:52:38] Voice 15: guessing that's 10 out of 10 fair bernardo probably

[3:52:41] Voice 12: and

[3:52:42] Trustee Luckham: i'd rather remove the erasers

[3:52:44] Trustee Luckham: rather than the pencils i

[3:52:47] Voice 9: see 10 volts in favor just keep

[3:52:50] Voice 12: the sharpener

[3:52:54] Voice 12: the uh all right now we're into uh the ecosystem mapping eighteen thousand dollars

[3:53:01] Voice 12: We were told that deferral is achievable.

[3:53:07] Voice 12: We may be getting some issues that might require any further debate.

[3:53:11] Voice 12: Does anybody want to debate this particular issue in any greater detail or fuller detail?

[3:53:17] Voice 12: No?

[3:53:19] Voice 12: All right, those in favor of reducing the budget by taking out that $18,000 by deferring the ecosystem mapping, please raise your hands.

[3:53:29] Voice 12: Whoops.

[3:53:33] Voice 9: I

[3:53:33] Voice 12: see eight votes.

[3:53:34] Voice 12: favor please lower your hands those opposed please raise your hands and

[3:53:45] Voice 9: three votes opposed okay

[3:53:49] Voice 12: and now we're uh moving down to the bylaw portal this one's kind of big it's uh we did hear that

[3:54:04] Voice 12: it's like uh there's a variety of views here uh i see hands coming up not surprised we're gonna

[3:54:11] Voice 12: and have further discussion,

[3:54:12] Voice 12: which is entirely appropriate given this item.

[3:54:14] Voice 12: Trustee Blackmon.

[3:54:18] Trustee Luckham: Oh, sorry, I was just trying to figure out

[3:54:20] Trustee Luckham: why I couldn't see my hand up earlier, but that's fine.

[3:54:24] Trustee Luckham: I've got it back on the screen.

[3:54:25] Trustee Luckham: I think my connection was lost.

[3:54:28] Voice 12: Oh, okay, so you don't have a comment here.

[3:54:30] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson.

[3:54:31] Trustee Luckham: No.

[3:54:33] Voice 4: Thank you, Chair.

[3:54:34] Voice 4: And this is one of those items

[3:54:37] Voice 4: that I'm actually a little undecided on.

[3:54:43] Voice 4: um certainly trust council has um uh made clear that uh you know improvement of the

[3:54:52] Voice 4: the bylaw enforcement function is important um particularly around transparency

[3:54:58] Voice 4: um and fairness and so that is why i'm a little reluctant to defer

[3:55:04] Voice 4: uh is really about the the interface with the public um that could be improved through this

[3:55:12] Voice 4: this implementation of the bylaw portal.

[3:55:19] Voice 4: Economically, sure, if we can defer it, great,

[3:55:24] Voice 4: but I am a little concerned about deferring the increasing,

[3:55:31] Voice 4: you know, what I understand is there would be increased

[3:55:35] Voice 4: public transparency with the implementation of this portal

[3:55:38] Voice 4: and that's the part that I have difficulty

[3:55:41] Voice 4: supporting deferring, so I'll leave it at that.

[3:55:44] Voice 12: thank you trustee graham

[3:55:46] Voice 8: yeah thank you taking into consideration that the regional planning

[3:55:51] Voice 8: committee has this as one of their top priorities and that the bylaw portal is the uh tool which

[3:55:59] Voice 8: will i think be the final piece of the of the revamp of policy and practices it makes sense to

[3:56:06] Voice 8: me to do the the work of policies and practices first and then implement the tool so i actually

[3:56:13] Voice 8: like Trustee Boland's idea, let's put $50,000 in this year, and assuming it's going to cost us more

[3:56:20] Voice 8: next year, we'll only have to budget the extra $50,000 to implement this. So this is a half

[3:56:27] Voice 8: measure. It doesn't exist on the screen, but that's what I would like to vote for.

[3:56:31] Voice 12: Perhaps we could hear from Director Cermak as to whether or not that, in my own mind,

[3:56:37] Voice 12: I'm not clear how that works in terms of allocating 50 now and 40 later. Can we hear,

[3:56:43] Voice 12: please from Director Cermak whether that's feasible because it basically suggests that

[3:56:50] Voice 12: the project, the installation of the portal will cover two years as opposed to one.

[3:56:55] Voice 12: Director

[3:56:55] Voice 11: Cermak, could you please comment? Thank you. I think in terms of financing,

[3:57:00] Voice 11: I would defer to Director Marder, or Director Mops. You would be putting a reserve fund. We

[3:57:06] Voice 11: wouldn't be trying to buy half of it now and half of it later. The business case is to do it

[3:57:11] Voice 11: it in one thing it's not feasible to split the project up over that period of time it'd have to

[3:57:18] Voice 11: be done in one um one year so this

[3:57:22] Voice 12: is not this ninety thousand dollars is basically a purchase

[3:57:24] Voice 12: price it's not something that is like a an ongoing expenditure that you could spread over two years

[3:57:30] Voice 12: no is that right

[3:57:31] Voice 15: that's right it's a one-time deal

[3:57:33] Voice 12: okay trustee evans i'm

[3:57:38] Voice 6: in favor of that

[3:57:39] Voice 6: suggestion from for the exact same reasons that um that was just raised and i'd raised them earlier

[3:57:43] Voice 6: as well there is work that has to be done in advance before this portal is put in place

[3:57:49] Voice 6: otherwise we're doing double work we're going to be implementing the current system the policies

[3:57:53] Voice 6: and and uh stuff will be revamped or redone and that may affect it later on um but you know um

[3:58:02] Voice 6: yeah i i'm in favor of having the 50 000 uh uh whatever

[3:58:10] Voice 1: it's called put aside

[3:58:11] Voice 6: and then next year

[3:58:13] Voice 6: we put aside another, we budget another $40,000 and do it then.

[3:58:17] Voice 6: And this year we focus on getting the policies and procedures updated

[3:58:21] Voice 6: and everything caught up to date.

[3:58:25] Voice 12: Just, you know, I'm going to have to comment here.

[3:58:28] Voice 12: I mean, we've just heard from Director Cermak and the CEO

[3:58:33] Voice 12: that this is kind of all or nothing.

[3:58:39] Voice 12: So I'm not clear why we won't,

[3:58:42] Voice 12: what is the please for the benefit of the group what is the benefit of attempting to reserve

[3:58:48] Voice 12: $50,000 to be spent the following year so

[3:58:52] Voice 6: that we're not we're not spending it all this year

[3:58:55] Voice 6: it's just mitigating the costs spreading it out over two years instead of instead of allocating

[3:59:00] Voice 6: all $90,000 now we're going to have to pay it either this year or next year but we can split

[3:59:05] Voice 6: the it over the two-year budget and implement it next year instead okay

[3:59:11] Voice 12: I think we're going to have

[3:59:12] Voice 12: to hear from staff about whether or not that uh what the operational or any other practical

[3:59:18] Voice 12: consequences of that could be uh ceo um well a

[3:59:24] Voice 15: couple of things mr chair yeah i'm neither hither

[3:59:26] Voice 15: thither yawn on that on the fifty thousand dollars thing i just want to break up the equivalency of

[3:59:32] Voice 15: we have to do this now and then that later that's not i'm just gonna we've tried to tell you that

[3:59:38] Voice 15: that that's not a thing, that one is a software product that's enhancing the transparency of our

[3:59:46] Voice 15: system. And the second is, and it goes in keeping with the modernization of our bylaw enforcement

[3:59:54] Voice 15: function. From any experience I've had in government, once you have momentum on something,

[4:00:00] Voice 15: want to do as much of it as you possibly can while you can um and and that's fine if you defer it

[4:00:07] Voice 15: though i would ask humbly ask you to support at trust council when the questions come up about

[4:00:13] Voice 15: where are we with developing the or advancing the bylaw enforcement function that there's support

[4:00:20] Voice 15: from the committee around that this was not advanced because this this is part of the

[4:00:26] Voice 15: the opportunity to make the system better overall and i can understand if there's purely a financial

[4:00:32] Voice 15: consideration associated with it in terms of the 50 here and 50 later if it if we were buying a

[4:00:37] Voice 15: building on salt spring i'd say let's have a develop a capital reserve i don't know whether

[4:00:42] Voice 15: you need one for fifty thousand dollars but that's up to you yeah

[4:00:48] Voice 12: thank

[4:00:50] Trustee Luckham: you um really

[4:00:52] Trustee Luckham: Really, thank you, CAO, for your remarks.

[4:00:55] Trustee Luckham: I want to go all the way back to David Graham, actually, because he started off on the right

[4:01:00] Trustee Luckham: foot there by saying that the software is the tool.

[4:01:03] Trustee Luckham: And you wouldn't send a carpenter to work on a job without sending him with the tools.

[4:01:07] Trustee Luckham: And quite honestly, I think we all know that improving bylaw enforcement is a high priority

[4:01:15] Trustee Luckham: and we need to get it done.

[4:01:17] Trustee Luckham: And I don't think this is a one, two-year project.

[4:01:20] Trustee Luckham: I think we're going to do this policy that's in the works. It's going to get done. And it would be great to have the tools to implement a new bylaw enforcement process this year rather than spreading it out till next year. Because sure, we can get the policies, but the ability to do some better work on the ground is the other half of this.

[4:01:42] Trustee Luckham: It's really important that I think we'd be just doing a disservice.

[4:01:45] Trustee Luckham: And as the CEO has said, there isn't two separate things to do here.

[4:01:49] Trustee Luckham: It's really all or nothing.

[4:01:51] Trustee Luckham: So you either want bylaw enforcement improved or you don't, because it's just going to be half done.

[4:01:59] Trustee Luckham: And I don't think we want to do that.

[4:02:01] Trustee Luckham: So let's spend this money.

[4:02:03] Trustee Luckham: It's a good money to spend.

[4:02:05] Trustee Luckham: That's it.

[4:02:06] Trustee Luckham: I

[4:02:08] Voice 12: don't

[4:02:10] Voice 10: see how an internet bylaw portal is going to improve the issues we have with bylaw

[4:02:15] Voice 10: enforcement there's some serious issues that need to be dealt with and before that happens I'm all

[4:02:21] Voice 10: in favor of taking this money off the table at this point thank you trustee

[4:02:27] Voice 12: Patrick and preparing

[4:02:29] Trustee Patrick: for the regional planning committee conversations we had last week on the bylaw enforcement I can

[4:02:34] Trustee Patrick: you, of course, go out and see what others are doing. And Abbotsford had a wonderful strategy

[4:02:38] Trustee Patrick: that they had put together to address their bylaw enforcement and modernize and get updated.

[4:02:43] Trustee Patrick: And they dealt with the procedures, the issues, the whys first. And the fourth strategy was

[4:02:50] Trustee Patrick: leveraging technology. So they clearly are looking probably at the same software package,

[4:02:55] Trustee Patrick: but they were going to fix the program first and then do the technology. And it just made sense.

[4:03:02] Voice 12: All right. We've heard these diverse views and there's two channels here. There's the yes-no channel, which is we either keep the $90,000 in its entirety or get rid of it by deferring it for a year. Or there's this kind of split the baby in half routine, which is not up on the list.

[4:03:27] Voice 12: I'm going to suggest we deal with it this way.

[4:03:30] Voice 12: We have a vote on whether or not this $90,000 expenditure should be included in this budget

[4:03:37] Voice 12: or deferred to next year.

[4:03:42] Voice 12: If there is no support for deferring it, in fact, I'll phrase it, whether or not people

[4:03:49] Voice 12: are prepared to defer it to next year, if people don't want to defer it to next year,

[4:03:53] Voice 12: we can if people want have a separate vote about this um reserving 50 now and allocating 40 later

[4:04:01] Voice 12: but for now let's see where we stand on the stark proposition of go no go with the 90 000 so if we

[4:04:09] Voice 12: can have a show of hands please of those who would support deferring this expenditure in its entirety

[4:04:14] Voice 12: on 90 000 to the next fiscal year those of you who support that please raise your hands i

[4:04:22] Voice 9: see six in

[4:04:23] Voice 9: favor uh

[4:04:25] Voice 12: those uh but can you please lower your hands uh those opposed uh please raise your hands

[4:04:35] Voice 12: all right lower your hands that's

[4:04:37] Voice 9: five opposed all

[4:04:40] Voice 12: right that one passes so uh well deferred

[4:04:48] Voice 12: in the next festival is the same as um removed from the budget really so it goes in that same

[4:04:52] Voice 12: column yeah yeah so let's move on to the next item uh let's

[4:04:58] Voice 11: see where we go do you mind if i just

[4:05:00] Voice 11: interject for one quick moment yes i just want to point out that the option for city view is is

[4:05:06] Voice 11: unique because we have islands just conservancy and we have islands and island stress planning

[4:05:12] Voice 11: service using city view so if it's deferred and it's considered it's going to be city view in the

[4:05:20] Voice 11: future for integration purposes and the way we implement that software city view is going to be

[4:05:27] Voice 11: how CityView does it. So how they map the project, how they implement it, and the service

[4:05:32] Voice 11: they provide is not going to change. It's not going to change based on any policies

[4:05:35] Voice 11: or procedures we have. It's just going to be what it is, and we already have their service.

[4:05:40] Voice 11: So it's kind of like we're getting that extension or not, and that's your purview, but I just

[4:05:45] Voice 11: want to be clear, no amount of discussion about policies and procedures really going

[4:05:50] Voice 11: to change what the project is. Thank you.

[4:05:53] Voice 12: The point's been made before, but it's fair enough. I understand where staff's coming

[4:05:56] Voice 12: from and it's an important consideration but what's driving this is more the budgetary thing

[4:06:02] Voice 12: that's pretty clear now uh i see trustee graham is his hand up but i'll entertain that but i would

[4:06:09] Voice 12: like to move to to more of these votes to see where we stand on these various items please

[4:06:13] Voice 12: proceed trustee graham and

[4:06:15] Voice 8: i'll be brief so my suggestion was based on my lack of understanding

[4:06:19] Voice 8: i was i was my my set my my gut was telling me that we would be able to tailor the portal

[4:06:26] Voice 8: hurdle the tool uh to the changes in policies and procedures if there is no if there would be no

[4:06:33] Voice 8: change to the to the tool regardless of what we do with procedures and practices then i would

[4:06:39] Voice 8: change my vote and i would spend the money now so i don't know if that that may be the deciding vote

[4:06:44] Voice 8: i don't know well

[4:06:46] Voice 12: this is confusing because i thought that distinction was clear from the

[4:06:49] Voice 12: outset i'm sure um no

[4:06:51] Voice 8: it wasn't clear obviously or i wouldn't have voted that sorry

[4:06:55] Voice 11: with respect

[4:07:01] Voice 12: I respect trustee Graham.

[4:07:02] Voice 12: The point was made multiple times by staff.

[4:07:06] Voice 12: I don't know how to deal with this item.

[4:07:09] Voice 12: I'll be honest with you.

[4:07:10] Voice 12: That wasn't a formal vote.

[4:07:13] Voice 12: I'm hearing that there's some willingness to reconsider.

[4:07:19] Voice 12: So I'm inclined to think that we should probably

[4:07:25] Voice 12: have a re-vote because the initiator of part of this idea

[4:07:30] Voice 12: has changed his mind and we do want this

[4:07:34] Voice 12: this to be as fair and you know it ought to it ought to reflect the genuine intentions of the

[4:07:41] Voice 12: people here so after we hear from trustee yates let's have that vote again trustee yates i just

[4:07:49] Voice 13: wanted to have the vote again thank you okay

[4:07:52] Voice 12: all right uh we're returning to the bylaw portal vote

[4:07:58] Voice 12: because there was some confusion that had to be clarified we are now going to have a vote again

[4:08:03] Voice 12: The vote will be whether or not to defer this expenditure of $90,000 to next year.

[4:08:10] Voice 12: Those who are in favor of that, please raise your hands.

[4:08:19] Voice 9: I see five in favor.

[4:08:21] Voice 12: Okay. And those of you who are opposed to that, please raise your hands.

[4:08:29] Voice 9: I see five opposed.

[4:08:31] Voice 12: I'm sorry, I didn't raise my hand.

[4:08:33] Voice 9: Six opposed.

[4:08:36] Voice 9: Okay.

[4:08:37] Voice 9: That one fails.

[4:08:39] Voice 12: Okay, now it fails.

[4:08:40] Voice 12: else uh we're going to move on to the next items uh trustee peterson we're not revoting this one

[4:08:47] Voice 12: okay let's continue the vexing question of trustee meetings which are expensive

[4:09:00] Voice 12: but also incredibly useful and that's the tension we we suffer here do we want to have further

[4:09:08] Voice 12: discussion about this and there were some when we did have the discussion there were some back and

[4:09:13] Voice 12: forth about whether we should knock off one or two but what we have in front of us is the

[4:09:17] Voice 12: proposition of knocking off one meeting and if we do that that will require us when we go to

[4:09:22] Voice 12: march trust council to as a committee basically read trust council the mini riot act and say look

[4:09:31] Voice 12: we know you want this you can't have it it's like we're desperately trying to knock it down

[4:09:37] Voice 12: if you want it you can have it but it means you're going to add like a third or so percent

[4:09:44] Voice 12: on the tax bill but where we stand as best you see it's no or we have a vote and we decide not

[4:09:52] Voice 12: to do it i'm just trying to lay out what the scene is here trustee peterson so

[4:09:59] Voice 4: at the risk of

[4:10:00] Voice 4: repeating myself my biggest um uh opposition to this is trust council made this decision in

[4:10:07] Voice 4: december how many times are we going to go through this and and what at what uh cost and uh in terms

[4:10:16] Voice 4: of staff timing uh to do the planning i've just i'm frustrated i don't i don't want to do this

[4:10:22] Voice 4: again i

[4:10:24] Voice 12: imagine trustee yates doesn't want to either trustee yates uh audio please

[4:10:32] Voice 13: yes yes that

[4:10:33] Voice 13: is exactly right i do not want to do this again and from a local point of view i have spoken to

[4:10:39] Voice 13: many people in the gabriola trust area who fully support my endeavor at council to meet in person

[4:10:47] Voice 13: they understand why i feel we need to meet in person across the trust area i know how much

[4:10:54] Voice 13: work it is for staff i know it's an expense i feel that if we give staff enough time and enough help

[4:11:01] Voice 13: it can be done thank you all

[4:11:04] Voice 12: right we all know where we well we don't know where we stand but

[4:11:08] Voice 12: we do know what the issues are here there's a definite tension here and it's a it's an unhappy

[4:11:14] Voice 12: compromise um those let's just put this up to a vote um those who are in favor of um eliminating

[4:11:25] Voice 12: one in-person meeting to reduce the budget by thirty one thousand dollars um and presenting

[4:11:31] Voice 12: that proposition to trust council uh those who are in favor of that please raise your hands now

[4:11:39] Voice 12: Please lower your hands. I

[4:11:41] Voice 9: see five in favor.

[4:11:42] Voice 12: Please lower your hands. Those who are opposed, please raise your hands.

[4:11:48] Voice 9: And six opposed. That one fails also.

[4:11:52] Voice 12: Correct. So moving on to the next item. Stewardship education. $15,000.

[4:12:02] Voice 12: I just said throw this up. Trustee Evans.

[4:12:06] Voice 6: Yeah, I just want to because we didn't really talk about this one before either.

[4:12:11] Voice 6: there um i just want to say there is a lot of like when we're talking about education of the

[4:12:17] Voice 6: residents of the island this is an important tool this is where we get all of our educational

[4:12:24] Voice 6: webinars this is where we get our educational uh tools our brochures our our mail outs all of that

[4:12:31] Voice 6: stuff that educates people on water on water on um coastal uh and species at risk and everything

[4:12:39] Voice 6: like that this is where it comes from if we pull this out there is nothing to go

[4:12:45] Voice 6: out and educate anybody for a year and it's a it's not it's not a large line

[4:12:53] Voice 6: item but it's an important tool so I cannot vote in favor of stripping this

[4:12:59] Voice 6: out thank you thank

[4:13:01] Voice 12: you trustee Harris we

[4:13:03] Voice 10: not already have educational material

[4:13:05] Voice 10: out there. I'm not sure how much more can be done. There's also non-governmental organizations,

[4:13:13] Voice 10: although some of the information may be questionable, but there seems to be lots

[4:13:17] Voice 10: of information out there already. I'm in favor of cutting this. Thank you.

[4:13:23] Voice 12: All right. Trustee Yates.

[4:13:27] Voice 13: Thank you, Chair Bernardo. I echo exactly what Trustee Evans has just said.

[4:13:31] Voice 13: I have attended those webinars myself.

[4:13:34] Voice 13: There's been an enormous participation, particularly in the freshwater ones.

[4:13:40] Voice 13: And I think we've more than got our monies worth out, even just with those webinars.

[4:13:47] Voice 12: All right. Thank you.

[4:13:50] Voice 12: Well, it's one of those things that we have divergent views on, obviously.

[4:13:55] Voice 12: Let's vote.

[4:13:56] Voice 12: Those who are in favor of eliminating for this year the $15,000 allocated to the search of education,

[4:14:03] Voice 12: please raise your hands please lower your hands five in favor please lower your hands those who

[4:14:14] Voice 12: are opposed uh to that cut please raise your hands i

[4:14:20] Voice 9: see five opposed that means one person abstain

[4:14:23] Voice 9: so that would fail okay

[4:14:26] Voice 12: uh history and heritage grants in age

[4:14:32] Voice 12: unless somebody has a comment i'm just going to throw that up

[4:14:36] Voice 17: that that passes i thought because

[4:14:40] Voice 17: because you need six no's.

[4:14:44] Voice 17: The abstention counts as a one in favor, yeah?

[4:14:48] Voice 9: Correct, yeah, so abstention is in favor.

[4:14:51] Voice 9: Oh, I'm sorry, yes, you're correct.

[4:14:52] Voice 9: I read that wrong.

[4:14:54] Voice 9: That passes on the abstention.

[4:14:56] Voice 9: My apologies, and thank you, Marie.

[4:15:01] Voice 12: If we could now turn to the history

[4:15:04] Voice 12: and heritage grants in aid item.

[4:15:07] Voice 6: Sorry,

[4:15:08] Voice 12: can that be

[4:15:08] Voice 6: recorded as five in favor,

[4:15:11] Voice 6: five opposed and one abstention okay

[4:15:21] Voice 11: so if we can go to history and heritage

[4:15:29] Voice 12: those in favor of cutting this item for this year please raise your hands

[4:15:37] Voice 12: please lower your hands and those who are opposed raise your hands aid in

[4:15:41] Voice 12: favor and

[4:15:45] Voice 9: two opposed two opposed and one abstained okay that passes all right

[4:15:51] Voice 12: it's 2 48 I think we could all do with a short break I'm gonna recess our meeting

[4:15:58] Voice 12: until 3pm. And I would hope in that short period of time, staff can give us a rough estimate of

[4:16:06] Voice 12: what we've saved here in terms of knocking down the tax load, how much percentage we'll have saved

[4:16:11] Voice 12: by doing that. And then we can go from there when we resume at 3pm. Thank you.

[4:16:21] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I'd just like to say, you know, I have other commitments at five o'clock that I can't

[4:16:25] Trustee Luckham: not attend. And so hopefully we'll be done by then.

[4:16:30] Voice 12: Well, five o'clock is when we're set for it. So, anyhow, we'll return then.

[4:17:15] Voice 20: It

[4:28:24] Voice 12: is 3 p.m. and time to resume our proceedings.

[4:28:32] Voice 12: Nap time.

[4:28:36] Voice 12: What are you talking about, Peter? I just had mine for several hours.

[4:28:40] Voice 8: No, I said that. Sorry, Joe.

[4:28:42] Voice 12: Oh, sorry.

[4:28:43] Voice 12: Yeah, yeah.

[4:28:46] Voice 12: All right. Bad jokes aside.

[4:28:53] Voice 11: Let's see.

[4:29:00] Voice 12: so uh what i see from here is that um we've come up with 1.3 percent reduction from the 7.25 so

[4:29:09] Voice 12: or 75 so where we're at right now is 6.45 percent or uh yeah tax increase um director

[4:29:27] Voice 11: moms yes

[4:29:33] Voice 12: audio please the

[4:29:38] Voice 7: 60 or 50 000 for the peltzberg island office relocation that is currently funded

[4:29:42] Voice 7: from surplus funds. And so that actually will not affect the tax increase unless those surplus

[4:29:48] Voice 7: funds are redirected. There's also some of these items are going to benefit Bowen Island

[4:29:56] Voice 7: municipality and their levy as well, which means there's

[4:30:00] Voice 7: a very slight reduction to the benefit that local trust areas receive because of course if

[4:30:06] Voice 7: Bowen gets a reduction the local trust committees don't get that reduction. So just a couple notes

[4:30:11] Voice 7: there what I have is around 0.7 percent tax reduction thank you with an eight around eight

[4:30:20] Voice 7: to eight eighty five hundred dollar reduction to the Bowen Island tax levy. If we redirect the

[4:30:25] Voice 7: $50,000 to the Salt Spring Islands, that will change things as well.

[4:30:30] Voice 12: Do we have what the number looks like somewhere up on the screen

[4:30:34] Voice 12: if we make the decision to reallocate or the

[4:30:37] Voice 12: recommendation that that $50,000 be reallocated to reduce the tax

[4:30:41] Voice 12: load?

[4:30:45] Voice 7: We don't have anything on the screen. We would need to look at where we'd be

[4:30:49] Voice 7: redirecting that. I can dig into the budget while you continue moving through

[4:30:54] Voice 12: the

[4:30:55] Voice 7: conversation, if you wish.

[4:30:56] Voice 7: all

[4:30:57] Voice 12: right but i mean i know you have to find a place for it you double entry people but the um

[4:31:05] Voice 12: i think you can add that in a kind of alternate thing about what an effect of

[4:31:12] Voice 12: you know uh reducing the tax load anywhere else by 50 knock it down by something

[4:31:20] Voice 7: yeah if we do redirect that fifty thousand dollars then it would be included and you would

[4:31:25] Voice 7: to be at around that 1.3 yeah

[4:31:28] Voice 12: what i'm asking for is just have that assumption built into it

[4:31:31] Voice 12: for discussion purposes so that we can deal with that trustee harris thank

[4:31:38] Voice 10: you um just a you know

[4:31:40] Voice 10: question to stop where are the other areas um for uh reduction consideration that's just possibly

[4:31:47] Voice 10: can't be the only um the only things that we have to consider on

[4:31:56] Voice 12: that point by the way i'm going to

[4:31:57] Voice 12: to step in. The list that I, during the break, had a chance to see, the list that Trustee Elliott

[4:32:04] Voice 12: had mailed out of her suggestions, and we dealt with many, if not most of them already, but she

[4:32:12] Voice 12: did have some other suggestions that she had done some work on. I'm wondering if we could have those

[4:32:17] Voice 12: put up on the screen now, extracted, the ones that we haven't already dealt with, and perhaps just

[4:32:23] Voice 12: just to add them up there and see what else we can do here.

[4:32:35] Voice 12: Julia,

[4:32:36] Voice 5: do you have those?

[4:32:40] Voice 12: They were emailed to me and to Robert before.

[4:32:47] Voice 19: Robert.

[4:32:48] Voice 19: The only changes were consideration of secretariat services,

[4:32:57] Voice 19: whether that could be reduced.

[4:33:01] Voice 19: reduced I know there's pretty broad support for the program in general but I don't think

[4:33:07] Voice 19: we've used 15,000 so I had suggested a budget of 5,000 instead First Nations engagement plan for

[4:33:19] Voice 19: the ITC I think in the business case the the proposal was to have 10,000 for First Nations

[4:33:29] Voice 19: engagement from the grant funding and $10,000 from Islands Trust funding. And so I was thinking

[4:33:42] Voice 19: if we could reduce that by $10,000. So back down to $10,000. I know this is a really hard one for

[4:33:48] Voice 19: me. So not a super fan of this. Executive expenses for LTCs. So I think the amount is $36,900. So

[4:34:02] Voice 19: roughly $37,000 as opposed to $20,000. I can't remember the number from last year. Julia might

[4:34:10] Voice 19: might be able to help me out um but it could be a combination of things if if if ltc's you know

[4:34:16] Voice 19: reduce uh have one meeting electronically or the chair uh can can chair remotely i know it's not

[4:34:26] Voice 19: popular not feasible in all places but if we reduce the budget and chairs make an effort to

[4:34:33] Voice 19: see where they can achieve some cost savings i think that that would help and then the other

[4:34:39] Voice 19: one that wasn't in our original consideration was um

[4:34:42] Voice 15: could we find what mr chair could we find out

[4:34:44] Voice 15: where that is in the budget it's just going past me pretty quick yeah

[4:34:48] Voice 11: which item

[4:34:50] Voice 15: is that where and

[4:34:51] Voice 15: where would the money be moving from and to well i guess

[4:34:56] Voice 19: i was taking it from expenses uh and so our

[4:35:00] Voice 19: which

[4:35:00] Voice 15: page on the agenda 47 i'm trying

[4:35:03] Voice 18: to find it yeah it is in the overall budget 47

[4:35:16] Voice 15: that's the budget detail so what we're seeing

[4:35:18] Voice 12: just to be clear uh just so we just somebody

[4:35:21] Voice 12: can clarify this for me what we're seeing up on the screen now is that trustee elliott is that

[4:35:25] Voice 12: your suggestions yeah

[4:35:28] Voice 19: so yes you're right uh ceo page 47 um right in the middle is the um ltc

[4:35:38] Voice 19: executive expense on ltcs i think the year before it was around 16 000 we're anticipating um or we

[4:35:47] Voice 19: we were budgeting for almost $37,000.

[4:35:55] Voice 19: I'm sorry, Tristan.

[4:35:56] Voice 12: Could you repeat what the previous year's number was?

[4:36:00] Voice 19: Around $16,000 for 2022-2023 actuals.

[4:36:07] Voice 19: The budget for executive expenses was around $15,900.

[4:36:14] Voice 18: I see it.

[4:36:16] Voice 18: Is there a

[4:36:17] Voice 12: question here as to why the executive expenses

[4:36:20] Voice 12: expenses have been if I maybe I'm misunderstanding it but almost doubled from last year

[4:36:24] Voice 19: we've

[4:36:25] Voice 19: discussed it at length I brought this up um and it's it's purely because of where the chairs are

[4:36:30] Voice 19: located um mostly on Liskety and due to um the limited ferry travel and um trust or chair

[4:36:43] Voice 19: Peterson having to stay overnight to do the jump of Galliano Salt Spring so it's it's just

[4:36:49] Voice 19: a huge jump and we've discussed it at length at ec we had reporting out in early january i think

[4:36:56] Voice 19: um and i just think we're going to have to look at reducing where we can it may not be feasible

[4:37:01] Voice 19: to travel to every ltc i i'm not in favor of this because you can't make you can't share a meeting

[4:37:07] Voice 19: remotely it sucks but where possible we might have to look at that so all

[4:37:13] Voice 12: right leave it well

[4:37:13] Voice 12: we have we have what you have up there and i'm just going to leave it just in the interest of

[4:37:17] Voice 12: of saving time.

[4:37:17] Voice 12: I'm gonna leave it to members here to what's happening.

[4:37:23] Voice 12: Okay, they can tell the things that we've already cut out.

[4:37:28] Voice 12: There's some new things here, there's some opportunities,

[4:37:33] Voice 12: but I mean, where we stand right now

[4:37:35] Voice 12: is we don't really have a lot of reductions

[4:37:38] Voice 12: and we're looking at something like an over 6% tax increase,

[4:37:42] Voice 12: which looks pretty darn unpalatable to me.

[4:37:44] Voice 12: So I think we have some more work to do here.

[4:37:46] Voice 12: Justy Evans.

[4:37:47] Voice 12: thank

[4:37:49] Voice 6: you um i was just going to say for the stewardship education you said that the monies

[4:37:54] Voice 6: weren't fully fully spent they were we were over subscribed to it and all monies were spent and we

[4:38:00] Voice 6: couldn't meet the the demands on the monies as well so um that is something that is um

[4:38:07] Voice 6: a big big part of why we're here which is working in cooperation with other organizations and this

[4:38:14] Voice 6: is our means of doing that. So for a small amount of money, we get a large return. So I wouldn't

[4:38:22] Voice 6: support the secretariat fund, you know, especially seeing as though we are suggesting that the

[4:38:27] Voice 6: stewardship education has gone away as well. These are these are integral pieces to Islands Trust.

[4:38:35] Voice 6: And if we've lost one, we can't lose the other. But my other my other thing that I started with

[4:38:43] Voice 6: at the beginning of this meeting is pushing back to staff and asking staff where can we cut in

[4:38:50] Voice 6: operations that is the large we're still nickel and diming on like the five thousand and ten

[4:38:56] Voice 6: thousand dollar line items where can we cut on some operational expenditures um that isn't project

[4:39:04] Voice 6: related and i don't know if there is any answer but i'm still gonna just harp on that for a little

[4:39:10] Voice 6: go back well

[4:39:12] Voice 12: um before we turn to the other trustees i mean we are going to need some help

[4:39:17] Voice 12: here uh if we want to hope to reduce this budget the tax the tax increase and trustee elliott has

[4:39:25] Voice 12: provided some suggestions here but even if we adopted all of them um we'd still be kind of in

[4:39:31] Voice 12: a bit of a jam here uh i'm gonna ask uh director of mobs if she can answer trustee evans question

[4:39:40] Voice 12: question. Where else can we find some money here to save?

[4:39:49] Voice 7: Sorry, I've got double mute action happening here. The list that was provided earlier was a

[4:39:55] Voice 7: collective, you know, it's a collective thinking of staff and management team as to where we think

[4:40:02] Voice 7: cuts could be achieved. There were other items that were looked at that didn't land on the list

[4:40:09] Voice 7: because they're not feasible or achievable.

[4:40:12] Voice 7: Some of those things are, you know, reducing real estate.

[4:40:16] Voice 7: So we've got, you know, three units in the Victoria office space.

[4:40:20] Voice 7: Could we potentially relinquish the lease in the space where IT lives or finance lives?

[4:40:25] Voice 7: We've done that assessment and determined that's not feasible.

[4:40:29] Voice 7: You know, so there's been lots of considerations that we've undertaken to look at other operational items.

[4:40:36] Voice 7: A lot of them that were evaluated previously,

[4:40:38] Voice 7: I think it was 2020, have already been implemented.

[4:40:40] Voice 7: And those that haven't have been re-evaluated again,

[4:40:43] Voice 7: it's not so achievable.

[4:40:45] Voice 7: So I think the list that's been provided is the collective.

[4:40:49] Voice 7: Thank you.

[4:40:51] Voice 12: Trustees, we've heard it from staff.

[4:40:53] Voice 12: This is as good as it gets as far as they can do it.

[4:40:56] Voice 12: And let's remember when they look at this,

[4:41:00] Voice 12: they're looking at the whole complexity

[4:41:01] Voice 12: of how the different operational elements interact.

[4:41:05] Voice 12: So it's never a simplistic exercises.

[4:41:09] Voice 12: It's a spider web.

[4:41:10] Voice 12: If you take one thing out,

[4:41:11] Voice 12: it's going to have ramifications elsewhere.

[4:41:14] Voice 12: They've gone through that exercise.

[4:41:15] Voice 12: They've come up with that list.

[4:41:17] Voice 12: You have something from Trustee Elliot.

[4:41:19] Voice 12: If we want to get higher reductions,

[4:41:21] Voice 12: it's on us to get creative, unfortunately.

[4:41:26] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson.

[4:41:30] Voice 4: Thank you, Chair.

[4:41:30] Voice 4: I just wanted to start by echoing Trustee Evans

[4:41:34] Voice 4: around the Secretariat services.

[4:41:36] Voice 4: We were indeed oversubscribed.

[4:41:39] Voice 4: It is in the cooperation with others part of the mandate.

[4:41:46] Voice 4: I think there's a lot of value there.

[4:41:48] Voice 4: I'm certainly not in favor of scrapping it.

[4:41:51] Voice 4: And indeed with the stewardship education piece going,

[4:41:56] Voice 4: which I wasn't in favor of,

[4:41:57] Voice 4: I'd hate to see both of them gone.

[4:41:59] Voice 4: So I'll just reiterate Trustee Evans on that point.

[4:42:04] Voice 4: In terms of the LTC travel expenses, things are expensive.

[4:42:13] Voice 4: And boy, are they ever more expensive in the summer than in the winter.

[4:42:17] Voice 4: That's not even an opinion.

[4:42:21] Voice 4: I can show you the receipts.

[4:42:25] Voice 4: Trustee Elliott said it, but I'll just reiterate it.

[4:42:28] Voice 4: But having to chair a meeting electronically in an in-person, otherwise in-person meeting is just asking for chaos.

[4:42:38] Voice 4: I don't see how that's feasible at all.

[4:42:42] Voice 4: And then the final bit on that is, yes, electronic meetings do save us money on LTCs.

[4:42:48] Voice 4: but there's not an ltc that i've been to to chair uh that is supportive of going to

[4:42:57] Voice 4: majority electronic meetings um it comes up every time on hornby people want us to be there in

[4:43:02] Voice 4: person i guess

[4:43:06] Voice 12: that's all i'll say about

[4:43:07] Voice 4: it are

[4:43:08] Voice 12: we in a situation where people can't have everything

[4:43:10] Voice 12: they want i mean well i'm just like

[4:43:13] Voice 4: when it comes down to local trust committees

[4:43:15] Voice 12: i want to make a

[4:43:16] Voice 12: a point of clarification that our area,

[4:43:18] Voice 12: Granby, most

[4:43:20] Voice 12: of our meetings are electronic,

[4:43:22] Voice 12: but that's because it suits

[4:43:24] Voice 12: us. Different areas have

[4:43:26] Voice 12: different communities and different

[4:43:28] Voice 12: cultures, frankly, and different expectations. So I

[4:43:30] Voice 12: don't expect everybody to follow our model,

[4:43:32] Voice 12: but I just raise that to point out

[4:43:34] Voice 12: that it actually is feasible to do that.

[4:43:37] Voice 4: We do it. I'm not saying

[4:43:38] Voice 4: it's not feasible. What I'm saying is that

[4:43:41] Voice 4: there are

[4:43:42] Voice 4: communities where that's more

[4:43:44] Voice 4: or less acceptable.

[4:43:46] Voice 4: And I've certainly heard loud and clear from some of the communities where they do not accept it.

[4:43:52] Voice 4: And I just that's that's what I'm hearing.

[4:43:57] Voice 4: I personally wouldn't bother me at all to stay home and and meet from from my desk where I'm sitting right now.

[4:44:04] Voice 4: So that's that's just the perspective I wanted to share.

[4:44:10] Voice 12: Here's a logistical question, and it's actually for staff.

[4:44:15] Voice 12: if trustee peterson was chairing different meetings like the allocation of the the local

[4:44:24] Voice 12: trust here is that the vice chairs um uh preside over if that was uh rejigged would that is there

[4:44:34] Voice 12: any possibility that that might reduce the uh travel expenditures for trustee peterson

[4:44:39] Voice 15: Mr. Chair, I'm happy to give an answer to that.

[4:44:44] Voice 15: That might be the case, but that's the purview of the chair of the Allens Trust to make the assignments and to sit with his colleagues and work those things out.

[4:44:55] Voice 15: And I'm quite sure it's more than finances that are involved in those determinations, but it could be revisited and there may or may not be some cost savings associated with that.

[4:45:03] Voice 12: All right. Thank you.

[4:45:04] Voice 12: There you

[4:45:11] Trustee Luckham: go. Seems like an opportune moment to speak.

[4:45:15] Trustee Luckham: You know, I don't really want to repeat what I've heard from Trustee Peterson and others.

[4:45:25] Trustee Luckham: However, I think that there's an important distinction.

[4:45:29] Trustee Luckham: All electronic meetings or in-person meetings where one member is not present.

[4:45:35] Trustee Luckham: And that what we're what the suggestion is, is that that one member is sort of anecdotally called the chair and indeed is the chair.

[4:45:47] Trustee Luckham: However, that person is a member of the local trust committee, a full fledged trustee of that local trust committee.

[4:45:53] Trustee Luckham: And there is value in being in community and the community knowing who the chair is and and vice versa.

[4:46:03] Trustee Luckham: There is a notion that exists out there about the off-island chair, and not having the chair attending in-person meetings on an island would only continue to support this off-island chair concept as not being consequential in the decision-making of the LTC.

[4:46:23] Trustee Luckham: see. And then I'll just say, repeating, the one thing I will repeat is, in my observation over

[4:46:31] Trustee Luckham: time, when meetings go sideways, it's because of an in-person meeting and the chair is not there

[4:46:37] Trustee Luckham: because you can't read the room. And that is so critical in situations where there's community

[4:46:46] Trustee Luckham: complexities and emotions and thoughts on the floor that the chair be present. And you can't

[4:46:52] Trustee Luckham: predict when that's going to happen. So I'm not in favor of making these cuts. And I'll just say

[4:46:57] Trustee Luckham: in defense of the executive committee is over the years here now, last two terms, the cuts that the

[4:47:04] Trustee Luckham: executive committee has made with its own meeting schedules of executive committee in Victoria,

[4:47:09] Trustee Luckham: and indeed the travel that most of us don't do. And I'm absolutely with Tim Peterson. If I can

[4:47:15] Trustee Luckham: stay at home for an electronic meeting, great. But what's critical is that all the trustees remain

[4:47:21] Trustee Luckham: remain at home, rather than having one or two members in a public place. Because I think it's

[4:47:27] Trustee Luckham: important to maintain that relationship with the community. There you go. Thank you.

[4:47:34] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Yates.

[4:47:35] Voice 13: Thank you, Chair Bernardo. I would like to echo what Trustee Evans said about the Secretariat.

[4:47:42] Voice 13: Also, I forgot to mention with the stewardship education, that there was, I think, 100 people

[4:47:49] Voice 13: attending the last water one, fresh water one, and out of the first one, we have a whole new group

[4:47:58] Voice 13: on Gabriela Island dedicated to water as part of our Climate 12 strategy. And they were so inspired

[4:48:05] Voice 13: by the first webinar on watersheds that that's what made them do their work. So that is such

[4:48:14] Voice 13: a valuable program I have to say and lastly regarding saving expenses on LTC

[4:48:20] Voice 13: meetings I only put that in the chat because it was just a question and I

[4:48:25] Voice 13: would never presume to tell a local trust committee that they should have

[4:48:30] Voice 13: their meetings electronically because I know the value of having them in person

[4:48:36] Voice 13: and as as as chair Luckum said I would especially not recommend that the

[4:48:43] Voice 13: chair attend electronically that's just a recipe for disaster and as far as the chair coming from

[4:48:49] Voice 13: another island in the trust area that's our opportunity to talk about the federation and

[4:48:56] Voice 13: how good it is to have someone from another part of the trust area to help us make our decisions

[4:49:02] Voice 13: thank you

[4:49:05] Voice 12: trustee evans thanks

[4:49:09] Voice 6: i'm also a big supporter of having um the local trust

[4:49:13] Voice 6: committee meetings in person it is in our community pretty essential and there's always a

[4:49:19] Voice 6: really good turnout and having all members of the local trust committee present is invaluable

[4:49:28] Voice 6: but one of the somebody raised and I can't remember who it was but I thought it was a great

[4:49:32] Voice 6: idea or maybe I misunderstood I'm not sure about reallocating the chair so that they're a little

[4:49:39] Voice 6: bit more local to their islands that they don't have to do the overnight trips that are incurring

[4:49:45] Voice 6: as much cost is that something that could be looked at um so that the chairs remain you know

[4:49:52] Voice 6: with within a day's travel of their own island and not have to do overnight trips um that that

[4:50:01] Voice 6: might be worth looking into because that in and of itself might help reduce some of the the unusual

[4:50:07] Voice 6: travel expenses that we're seeing at the moment because I mean we've done that in past years

[4:50:12] Voice 6: just curious if that could be taken into consideration and

[4:50:16] Voice 12: I'm going to follow up on

[4:50:17] Voice 12: something trustee Evans you'd said before which is some of these items that we're looking at are

[4:50:23] Voice 12: kind of nickel and dime given the scale of what we're dealing with here let's not belabor too

[4:50:27] Voice 12: much I mean if it's eighty thousand dollars it takes an eighty thousand dollar cut to get down

[4:50:31] Voice 12: one percent you know we're going to be here forever for if we're chipping away at ten grand

[4:50:36] Voice 12: here five grand there and we won't get there um we've got a problem on our hands here uh let's

[4:50:43] Voice 12: try to be efficient in terms of directing our attention to the things that we can do

[4:50:49] Voice 12: because the alternative is we're going to end up going to that trust council meeting

[4:50:52] Voice 12: and saying look here's your big tax increase uh we're not up to it we can't figure out how to cut

[4:50:57] Voice 12: it because that's that's where we're headed right now trustee harris thank

[4:51:02] Voice 10: you yes i agree we have

[4:51:04] Voice 10: have a big problem on our hands my question

[4:51:05] Voice 10: yes um so on

[4:51:08] Voice 6: the first line item under expenses i'm

[4:51:10] Voice 6: wondering if uh director mobs can explain it to me the amortization expense because that's gone

[4:51:16] Voice 6: up significantly from 170 to 240 can you explain we

[4:51:22] Voice 12: lost your sound trustee evans but i think we

[4:51:24] Voice 12: got the gist um yeah

[4:51:30] Voice 20: i think we're looking

[4:51:30] Voice 7: for an explanation on what amortization is um so

[4:51:35] Voice 7: So amortization reflects the use of our capital assets over time.

[4:51:41] Voice 7: So this, it's a non-cash expense.

[4:51:44] Voice 7: It's not something that we're paying.

[4:51:45] Voice 7: When we purchase an asset for, say, $100,000, we capitalize it, and we would show an amortization expense, perhaps $10,000 a year, if that asset will last us 10 years.

[4:51:56] Voice 7: It is something that is removed from the budget for the purposes of calculating taxation.

[4:52:01] Voice 7: So we do not tax for this item because we recognize it's non-cash.

[4:52:05] Voice 7: we tax for the purchase instead.

[4:52:07] Voice 7: So when it grows, it is typically a reflection

[4:52:10] Voice 7: of the fact that we've got more capital assets

[4:52:11] Voice 7: and ownership that we are amortizing,

[4:52:13] Voice 7: which is the fact here.

[4:52:18] Voice 10: Trustee Bowman.

[4:52:20] Voice 10: I'm sorry, I thought you called.

[4:52:23] Voice 10: Sorry

[4:52:23] Voice 12: Trustee Harris, my

[4:52:24] Voice 10: mistake, sorry.

[4:52:26] Voice 10: Thank you, no problem.

[4:52:28] Voice 10: Anyways, going back to what we're talking about here,

[4:52:31] Voice 10: when I hear statements, like I've heard loud and clear

[4:52:34] Voice 10: in quotes from the community,

[4:52:36] Voice 10: you know you want to raise some caution well i've heard loud and clear lots of things and if we use

[4:52:40] Voice 10: that you know who do we hear from like when you're talking loud and clear what are we talking about

[4:52:45] Voice 10: here like how many people did you hear loud and clear from because we've had loud and clear

[4:52:49] Voice 10: messages at our ltcs saying all kinds of things and they're ignored and there's been a pattern

[4:52:54] Voice 10: avoiding at our ltc people are not happy about it i've heard loud and clear i've heard loud and

[4:52:58] Voice 10: clear that they don't want a um chair from liscati or thetis or anywhere else for that matter

[4:53:04] Voice 10: we're in trouble here and this nickel and diming like you're saying this is ridiculous there has

[4:53:10] Voice 10: to be some bigger things we can sink our teeth into here um i'm i don't even know what the words

[4:53:16] Voice 10: i'm at a loss for words but um it's this is a sad state of affairs i'll leave it at that thank you

[4:53:22] Voice 12: trustee bollard thanks

[4:53:29] Voice 17: um i would strongly support uh trustee elliott's suggestion of reducing the

[4:53:35] Voice 17: the litigation expenses because drawing from surplus funds like surplus funds are your rainy

[4:53:41] Voice 17: day funds and given that our litigation expenses uh are a bit of an unknown quantity using the

[4:53:49] Voice 17: surplus funds for that seems logical to me um i would also support the um sorry i have to put my

[4:53:59] Voice 17: glasses back on yeah the uh the uh gabriola water balance looking for uh grant funding i think that's

[4:54:09] Voice 17: a great idea

[4:54:10] Voice 17: because we have done quite a lot of work on water balance and um you know i wonder

[4:54:18] Voice 17: whether we can't use what already exists given that it's going to be part of the ocp and as

[4:54:25] Voice 17: As Trustee Yates said, there's a group come together to work on Waterloo and Gabriola, which is great.

[4:54:31] Voice 17: And the other thing I would go back to is a discussion at the very, very beginning, which was, you know, there's such an enormous amount of this budget, which is untouchable by us because it is salaries and administration.

[4:54:48] Voice 17: administration and I would strongly resist adding new staff positions um and I you know I I just

[4:54:58] Voice 17: think that we hard-coded a problem for ourselves by adding permanent staff positions because sooner

[4:55:05] Voice 17: or later we're going to really have to look at staff positions and consider within our plans

[4:55:13] Voice 17: whether it's appropriate to have 66, 67, I don't know what the number is now, permanent staff,

[4:55:22] Voice 17: when within the Ireland's Trust, arguably, you could argue that, you know, development has peaked

[4:55:30] Voice 17: and the need to, you know, resist unbridled development, which was the original purpose of the Ireland's Trust, has decreased.

[4:55:41] Voice 17: So I would be strongly in favor of going back to look at the staff positions that are proposed.

[4:55:48] Voice 17: And, you know, I think that the Arlington Trust Conservancy could seek funding for the province next year and then come back if that fails.

[4:56:02] Voice 17: it's been discussed for a while so it could be a condition that that condition

[4:56:09] Voice 17: is the wrong word but that they would be encouraged to go to problems and then

[4:56:13] Voice 17: come back to the Trust Council next year thank

[4:56:18] Voice 12: you I mean we have this exercise

[4:56:23] Voice 12: to go through I'm going to suggest I'm going to ask actually Nancy to if you

[4:56:29] Voice 12: you can we had that previous screen if you can uh copy the items that are on trustee elliott's

[4:56:38] Voice 12: list that were not dealt with before and are outstanding as potential reductions and move

[4:56:43] Voice 12: them on to the other screen yeah that one so they're all in one place so we can work with

[4:56:48] Voice 12: because we just heard from trustee boland that um she wants to re-examine uh some of those items

[4:56:55] Voice 12: didn't make it past the first cut before and as i mentioned before they remained open for us to go

[4:57:02] Voice 12: back to look at if we have to so it sounds like we're going to go in that direction and so if we

[4:57:07] Voice 12: could please consolidate the potential cuts trustee patrick just

[4:57:15] Trustee Patrick: wanted to talk we were talking about

[4:57:16] Trustee Patrick: nickel and diming which is what we're trying to do here the the structure is inefficient and

[4:57:23] Trustee Patrick: inexpensive. So I know at the regional planning committee last week, we just began a conversation

[4:57:31] Trustee Patrick: of saying, well, how could we do long range planning differently? How could we restructure

[4:57:35] Trustee Patrick: how we decide what gets done and how we fund it? And can we do it far more efficiently?

[4:57:43] Trustee Patrick: The answer is yes, we can, but we're going to have to invest in doing that. That's going to

[4:57:47] Trustee Patrick: to take effort to figure out how to do things differently than we've done them. I absolutely

[4:57:54] Trustee Patrick: think there's tons of space to improve our efficiencies and get better at it and do that

[4:58:00] Trustee Patrick: long range planning on Denman and Salt Spring where it's so desperately needed. If we were able

[4:58:06] Trustee Patrick: to just get our resources assigned at the right places, we need it. We're not going to be able

[4:58:11] Trustee Patrick: to fix that today. That's not this committed. It's everything that has to be looked at. So

[4:58:16] Trustee Patrick: So we're just going to keep nickel and diming, and we're not going to get at the problems that need to have resources given to them.

[4:58:24] Voice 12: Well, we're not going to change the structure of anything today, that's for sure.

[4:58:28] Voice 12: What we're looking at is one way or the other, trying to knock that number down.

[4:58:31] Voice 12: Trustee Elliott?

[4:58:34] Voice 19: Yeah, I really, so the projects in LTC Reserve, those items should be discussed together

[4:58:44] Voice 19: And look at the feasibility assessment that Director Cermak did on page. Because I think this, and I agree with Trustee Graham, this is not where we need to cut. LTC projects are the heart of what we do. They're the closest to our communities.

[4:59:02] Voice 19: The water balance, I'm sorry, Trustee Boland, but you're incorrect. This is not something that citizens can do. The water balance analysis is to set a methodology that we can roll out across the Gulf Islands. This is the third phase, and it's important.

[4:59:19] Voice 19: important. What I was looking at is where could we trim in a cohesive way? Um, perhaps it's not

[4:59:26] Voice 19: 50,000, perhaps it's 25 and we seek grant funding from the real estate, um, foundation, something

[4:59:33] Voice 19: like that. Um, and I would only, I would only agree to that if, if we looked at something like

[4:59:42] Voice 19: the South Salt Spring Island projects, um, and recognize that they're, they may not get started

[4:59:47] Voice 19: until the second half of the fiscal and so budgeting you know half of them to be uh considered

[4:59:53] Voice 19: in this fiscal um so i was just looking for i was more asking questions these were not

[5:00:00] Voice 19: you know hard numbers uh there's two more areas we could look at foi records management uh this

[5:00:06] Voice 19: is a new budget item for ten thousand dollars i'd like to know what that's uh meant to be for

[5:00:11] Voice 19: and do we need to spend uh fifteen thousand for executive committee sponsored applications

[5:00:18] Voice 19: that might be um something um but the other big capital projects we haven't looked at is all the

[5:00:28] Voice 19: software is that just a given that we're going to approve um you know all the gis positions the

[5:00:35] Voice 19: microsoft upgrade we haven't questioned any of those uh to me the full-time equivalent positions

[5:00:42] Voice 19: that we're talking about at the conservancy are as critical to our infrastructure as these software

[5:00:46] Voice 19: upgrades so i'd ask you to um if you're going to put the lens on um those fte positions to also

[5:00:55] Voice 19: evaluate the the software ones with the same light thank you

[5:01:01] Voice 12: just point of

[5:01:03] Voice 12: clarity those FTE positions were part of the list that staff came up with as

[5:01:09] Voice 12: feasible cutting out the software that you're talking about was not I mean

[5:01:16] Voice 12: staff put some operational thinking into that list of it it came up with trustee

[5:01:21] Voice 12: Yates Thank

[5:01:23] Voice 13: You chair Bernardo I just want to echo what trustee Elliott said

[5:01:26] Voice 13: about the citizens groups that have gotten together over water on Gabriola are mostly the

[5:01:32] Voice 13: result of the wonderful stewardship webinars that got people so excited on this island

[5:01:39] Voice 13: both to support the island's trust but also to support their own transition activities so

[5:01:47] Voice 13: it has nothing to do with the Gabriola water balance study that we absolutely must have in

[5:01:54] Voice 13: in order to do our official community plan review.

[5:01:57] Voice 13: And I will support that one with my reputation.

[5:02:04] Voice 13: Thank you.

[5:02:05] Voice 12: Trustee Graham.

[5:02:08] Voice 8: Yes, thank you.

[5:02:09] Voice 8: Though it seems a logical path to say,

[5:02:15] Voice 8: well, we're on a finite island with finite land.

[5:02:18] Voice 8: We've been at it for at least 50 years

[5:02:20] Voice 8: with the Islands Trust and prior to that.

[5:02:22] Voice 8: So development must be almost done.

[5:02:24] Voice 8: And yet the data coming from Director Cermak does not uphold that idea.

[5:02:32] Voice 8: The development continues to increase incrementally each year.

[5:02:36] Voice 8: There was a slowdown, but I think we're back to levels which we saw prior to COVID.

[5:02:42] Voice 8: Now, one day, I'm sure, when all the lots are, you know, everyone's living on the lot that they own and there's no more subdivision potential,

[5:02:52] Voice 8: And we have all the studies that we need to know where the water is, the water balance is there. We've protected as much land as we possibly can. Then, obviously, we're going to be in a kind of a maintenance, a government maintenance role. And at that point, the shift will be the conservancy, because the conservancy has the room to grow.

[5:03:12] Voice 8: or as the administration and as a planning function,

[5:03:16] Voice 8: we actually should be shrinking.

[5:03:18] Voice 8: So we need to, our long range plan

[5:03:20] Voice 8: really should be thinking about making sure

[5:03:23] Voice 8: that the conservancies on the right

[5:03:25] Voice 8: has the tools that they need

[5:03:27] Voice 8: because they actually do the,

[5:03:29] Voice 8: they represent the preserve and protect

[5:03:33] Voice 8: better than any arm of the trust,

[5:03:35] Voice 8: any activity of the trust

[5:03:36] Voice 8: because we're actually holding land

[5:03:38] Voice 8: or maintaining land and keeping it safe.

[5:03:42] Voice 8: the i can feel the frustration that people uh want to reduce the budget want to reduce the budget

[5:03:48] Voice 8: wonder and we are doing an excellent exercise here and i agree the amounts are small but that

[5:03:54] Voice 8: actually may be as far as we can go you know the non-discretional expenses are that we don't have

[5:04:02] Voice 8: a lot of room we can't change a lot we've already said we don't want to touch local uh trust area

[5:04:06] Voice 8: expenses because they're so important and i really do feel they're they're more important than they've

[5:04:10] Voice 8: have been given credit for for a while the technology seems to be uh i'm as frustrated

[5:04:17] Voice 8: as everyone else um and yet we keep we're told by the experts that we need to keep abreast of

[5:04:22] Voice 8: the technology we can't fall behind because the programs aren't supported and when they crash

[5:04:27] Voice 8: we're screwed etc etc so again we may not be able to get the number as low as some people feel

[5:04:34] Voice 8: we our job is to do the best we can i think we're doing a great job and let's let's not

[5:04:39] Voice 8: beat ourselves up if we can't get it to zero, one, two, three, four, five. It may end up sitting at

[5:04:44] Voice 8: six or seven. That's just what we have to present to Trust Council.

[5:04:54] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, David, for those fine words. And I actually don't really have much to add, but

[5:05:00] Trustee Luckham: I just want to be clear that when we talk about upgrading to Microsoft 365,

[5:05:08] Trustee Luckham: it isn't actually an upgrade anymore. It's not like we're just getting new bells and whistles.

[5:05:14] Trustee Luckham: It's a matter of maintaining and continuation of the delivery of service because Microsoft's model is a pay per use, not a buy it now and you got it licensed forever.

[5:05:25] Trustee Luckham: So it's and as David has pointed out that eventually it just simply becomes obsolete.

[5:05:32] Trustee Luckham: I've worked in the computer industry all my life and it's tragic, the situation we're in, but it's a reality we have to have to work within.

[5:05:41] Trustee Luckham: well

[5:05:43] Voice 12: trustees uh we have an hour and a half before the scheduled meeting concludes we still have some

[5:05:48] Voice 12: other things to do the remaining housekeeping can be dealt with i think reasonably efficiently once

[5:05:54] Voice 12: assuming we get there once we arrive at um the budget we want to recommend

[5:06:01] Voice 12: the various suggestions that are larded in here um the salt spring project issue that

[5:06:08] Voice 12: can be deleted because we already just resolved that by saying we weren't going to deal with it

[5:06:13] Voice 12: There's a couple of big items here.

[5:06:16] Voice 12: One is the litigation issue, and the other one is this Gabriel water balance issue, which I really quite don't understand.

[5:06:23] Voice 12: So in the interest of advancing some movement here, I have a question for Director Mobbs.

[5:06:32] Voice 12: There's a suggestion here that the litigation budget be reduced by $50,000 by finding the money in surplus funds.

[5:06:41] Voice 12: Can we do that?

[5:06:42] Voice 12: And the ancillary question, how much more can we draw out of the surplus fund to knock down the tax increase before we start hurting ourselves?

[5:06:53] Voice 7: I think the intention here is to not fund the existing litigation expense in the budget from surplus, but to reduce the litigation expense in the budget.

[5:07:04] Voice 7: And if needed, throughout the year, next year, dip into surplus monies to pay for the litigation.

[5:07:11] Voice 7: litigation um should i see nodding from trustee elliott okay so i'm understanding the intent

[5:07:17] Voice 7: there correctly

[5:07:17] Voice 19: that was that was

[5:07:18] Voice 19: your overview sorry that's where i pulled it from thank you

[5:07:22] Voice 19: that's

[5:07:24] Voice 7: right so that is an alternate approach to litigation uh expense estimates in the budget

[5:07:30] Voice 7: i would not suggest removing litigation expense entirely we know we will have litigation expense

[5:07:36] Voice 7: expense. That is unknown. But reducing it and then drawing on surplus monies if it ends up

[5:07:43] Voice 7: being in excess next year is an approach that can be taken and we usually have enough surplus

[5:07:47] Voice 7: monies for that.

[5:07:50] Voice 12: So we could do that. We could basically say we'll reduce it by that amount and

[5:07:54] Voice 12: then cross our fingers and hope we don't have to draw on the reserve funds basically. Is that right?

[5:08:04] Voice 12: That's right. We have the issue in front of us. Why don't we talk about it and resolve if we

[5:08:11] Voice 12: we want to do that. Do we have any further comments about that? I'll put it up to a vote

[5:08:24] Voice 12: on the same sort of, you know, show of hands issue. Those who favor reducing litigation

[5:08:31] Voice 12: in the budget by $50,000 on the understanding that any amounts over the budgeted amount

[5:08:40] Voice 12: that does finally get into the budget will be covered by our reserve funds. Those in

[5:08:45] Voice 12: favor please raise your hands please lower your hands uh those opposed please raise your hands

[5:08:57] Voice 9: oops

[5:08:58] Voice 12: what's happening here i

[5:09:00] Voice 9: see okay

[5:09:01] Voice 12: i just

[5:09:02] Voice 9: wanted to uh

[5:09:04] Voice 12: that was just trustee peterson i

[5:09:06] Voice 12: think

[5:09:06] Voice 9: yeah just the one yeah

[5:09:08] Voice 12: and i saw director mobs had her hand up yes yeah

[5:09:13] Voice 7: just a brief comment

[5:09:15] Voice 7: reducing it by $50,000 is quite a substantial reduction. I thought it was reduced to $50,000.

[5:09:24] Voice 7: So in history, it does swing up and down. We tend to spend $90,000, $62,000. We had a year of

[5:09:31] Voice 7: $180,000. This year, we're forecasting $39,000. So to reduce it by $50,000 and put it around $27,000

[5:09:40] Voice 7: dollars in the budget i think that is too low um i would suggest maybe a reduction of 25 to 30

[5:09:47] Voice 7: at your discretion of course but i think 50,000 boy

[5:09:52] Voice 12: what a sloppy way of doing business okay let's

[5:09:55] Voice 12: well we've heard from the person who actually knows what she's talking about

[5:10:00] Voice 12: that it would be reckless basically and she says the 50,000 number is too high it ought to be 35,000

[5:10:08] Voice 12: um why don't we just change like unless somebody complains like we're running out of time here

[5:10:16] Voice 12: how about we just knock it down take the advice of staff knock that down to 35 000

[5:10:20] Voice 12: take that as agreed to unless somebody complains no complaint good done oh 28 thank you chair

[5:10:28] Voice 13: bernardo i was trying to vote against that at the last one mainly because of the amount but i'm still

[5:10:34] Voice 13: a little bit worried about that amount so i would like to vote against it thank you okay

[5:10:39] Voice 12: Okay. All right. So that's on record there. Good. Now, the other big number we have here is the

[5:10:48] Voice 12: water balance, which I confess I do not quite understand. My vague understanding from what I've

[5:10:57] Voice 12: heard is the idea is to not budget it, but seek grant funding from some other source to cover

[5:11:04] Voice 12: that off. Perhaps, Trustee Elliott, you could explain that.

[5:11:06] Voice 19: Yeah. So we've had numerous

[5:11:08] Voice 19: conversations, both Gabriela LTC at Regional Planning Committee. The fact is that this is

[5:11:17] Voice 19: the only project that advances the freshwater sustainability strategy. And at our recent

[5:11:23] Voice 19: RPC meeting just last Friday, we landed on three priority projects going forward. And one of them

[5:11:32] Voice 19: is to complete or to have the implementation of the freshwater sustainability strategy,

[5:11:40] Voice 19: which has been a five-year project, multi, multi-million, sorry, thousands of dollars

[5:11:46] Voice 19: of investment. And it's gone through three phases. So the first one was sort of a testing

[5:11:54] Voice 19: phase, Southern Gulf Islands. The second one refined it, I believe on Galliano and North

[5:11:59] Voice 19: north pender and this third phase is to basically do the methodology for um it's it the water

[5:12:08] Voice 19: balance is the water we need to determine how people are using the water so on gabriola we know

[5:12:14] Voice 19: how much water is in the ground there's lots of well monitoring data there isn't it's not known

[5:12:20] Voice 19: where that water is used so agriculture housing development and all that stuff so the water

[5:12:26] Voice 19: balance, the budget is the methodology that we need to do the land availability suitable analysis

[5:12:36] Voice 19: for housing and development. So it's an important project. I do understand now that it's like

[5:12:42] Voice 19: Gabriel is the ideal place to do it. It's not just because it serves our OCP and our community's

[5:12:47] Voice 19: needs. It's going to inform the rest of the trust area. But more importantly, this is the only

[5:12:52] Voice 19: project that meets that strategic plan. There's nothing else in our budget for the next year

[5:13:00] Voice 19: to do with freshwater and regional planning committee did decide that this was an important

[5:13:05] Voice 19: project to finish. So I was just looking for equity. How can we, I don't know, how can we

[5:13:13] Voice 19: have some cost savings? I don't know if it's going to cost $50,000 because honestly, there's

[5:13:18] Voice 19: no business case and that is kind of on staff they there there isn't a business case for what that

[5:13:24] Voice 19: water balance analysis will look like um and you know if we fail to get it at trust council we have

[5:13:31] Voice 19: to look for the money elsewhere because we have to do this work so it's not that

[5:13:36] Voice 12: it can't get done

[5:13:36] Voice 12: thanks for the background but i'm still not clear about how this works for the budget

[5:13:42] Voice 12: are you proposing that there's fifty thousand dollars now allocated for that without a business

[5:13:47] Voice 12: in this case and you're saying take it out and let's look for the money someplace else

[5:13:52] Voice 19: it's a it

[5:13:54] Voice 19: is probably a discussion at trust council i am saying that if we wanted to put forward a draft

[5:13:58] Voice 19: budget and say does trust council want to continue with the freshwater sustainability project this is

[5:14:05] Voice 19: the only project that will do that so this may be a

[5:14:08] Voice 19: soft spot but it probably is a vote at trust

[5:14:11] Voice 19: council not for this body because it's

[5:14:13] Voice 12: well the way it works with the budget is we have to make

[5:14:16] Voice 12: a recommendation and i know if

[5:14:18] Voice 12: if we take it out it's like the debate can happen at trust council

[5:14:21] Voice 12: and the trust council will decide whatever it wants but um this uh water balance issue um

[5:14:30] Voice 12: the lack of a business case is a little troubling kind of unhappy making but um yep i have a

[5:14:41] Voice 12: question for staff and possibly for you trustee elliot i mean we have this perennial problem of

[5:14:46] Voice 12: having projects that are worthwhile that everybody wants and jealously guards the the ability of

[5:14:52] Voice 12: it to survive but we have a difficulty in getting them done uh they're just all stacked up and

[5:15:01] Voice 12: staff resources the money is a dilemma we always run into the money is one thing the staff resources

[5:15:06] Voice 12: are another is it even realistic to expect this gabriola water balance project is going to get

[5:15:12] Voice 12: get done this year if it if there's some doubt about that then that's the kind of thing when

[5:15:19] Voice 12: you're coming up with a budget is like that's what you look at i mean like it not funding the

[5:15:23] Voice 12: thing for a year doesn't mean it's not worthwhile it just means it's just you're being realistic

[5:15:27] Voice 12: about what you can do so is this thing going to get done it's it's hard to

[5:15:31] Voice 19: say we have one full

[5:15:33] Voice 19: time senior freshwater specialist and he basically he said he's doing everything he's doing the

[5:15:39] Voice 19: the science he's doing the webinars for community you know he can't write grants and do all the

[5:15:45] Voice 19: explaining to committees why this work is important he's a scientist right so he wants to do the

[5:15:49] Voice 19: science so we're in a real capacity problem here where it i i can't speak to whether it would get

[5:15:56] Voice 19: done or not but we have one senior freshwater specialist and this is the only project that

[5:16:00] Voice 19: advances that strategic goal so it is worth it um is it on the table just like everything else

[5:16:07] Voice 19: that's important yes okay

[5:16:09] Voice 12: thank you for that uh enlightening uh trusty patrick

[5:16:14] Trustee Patrick: years ago we

[5:16:16] Trustee Patrick: made a decision this is the the pre the pre-term that we would move to a regional model for the

[5:16:23] Trustee Patrick: science because it was fair that we we needed the same science basically for our water work across

[5:16:29] Trustee Patrick: all of the islands and that we would do it strategically and smartly across the islands

[5:16:34] Trustee Patrick: islands. And a plan was created last term, which was supposed to set out a model of kind of

[5:16:41] Trustee Patrick: planning what we do. What failed to get done was an implementation plan for that plan. It did end

[5:16:47] Trustee Patrick: up as a resolution to be done, but then it didn't get done. And so we've made another resolution to

[5:16:53] Trustee Patrick: get an implementation plan done. So, you know, do we need to do more work on doing the water

[5:17:00] Trustee Patrick: balance. We need to do them across all of the islands. But we need to know the plan. The fact

[5:17:09] Trustee Patrick: that we don't have a business case for this one is a bit concerning. And hopefully there will be

[5:17:17] Trustee Patrick: an implementation plan coming so that we can get this work mapped out so we know what expenses are

[5:17:23] Trustee Patrick: coming and how to fund it. So it's another case of we're just not setting up our funds to match

[5:17:28] Trustee Patrick: the work that we really need to do but

[5:17:31] Voice 12: I'm not hearing from you trustee Patrick

[5:17:33] Voice 12: and whether you favor cutting it out or not

[5:17:34] Trustee Patrick: it's a tough one um I don't know if

[5:17:37] Trustee Patrick: I have the confidence it's going to get done thank

[5:17:40] Voice 12: you trustee Yates thank you

[5:17:44] Voice 13: chair Bernardo well it certainly won't get done if we cut it that's for sure

[5:17:48] Voice 13: and we've been talking about this now for two years and what may not be

[5:17:53] Voice 13: evident to everyone is that we cannot continue with our official community

[5:17:58] Voice 13: plan review other than public input we've had we're getting lots of that

[5:18:03] Voice 13: lots of enthusiasm from the public about what they'd like to see but as far as

[5:18:08] Voice 13: the actual technical workings of our OCP review and our land use bylaw we can't

[5:18:14] Voice 13: do it without that water balance study thank you

[5:18:19] Voice 12: trustee Peterson thank

[5:18:23] Voice 4: you yeah I guess my question would probably be for trust

[5:18:28] Voice 4: since she put this on the table but just for clarity is there a suggestion of ditching the

[5:18:34] Voice 4: whole thing of partially funding it or deferring it i'm just a little uh based on and what i heard

[5:18:41] Voice 4: from trustee elliot i'm not quite sure what her um goal here is

[5:18:46] Voice 19: it's it's tricky because we don't

[5:18:50] Voice 19: have a business case so i don't know what the money would be spent on but uh this is science

[5:18:55] Voice 19: and i'm assuming that they have a plan i would suggest that we have a vote and it either stays

[5:19:06] Voice 19: in its entirety or it doesn't and then um staff will have to look for funds elsewhere thank you

[5:19:14] Voice 4: okay thank you because that that's helpful i just wanted to to try and get a little bit of a grasp

[5:19:18] Voice 4: on that i mean i i do support i support science and i certainly support funding ltc projects

[5:19:25] Voice 4: because I think it's been mentioned many times,

[5:19:27] Voice 4: that's fundamental.

[5:19:28] Voice 12: Trustees, at this juncture,

[5:19:31] Voice 12: we have about an hour and 10 minutes left.

[5:19:34] Voice 12: I'm really going to implore

[5:19:36] Voice 12: that we exercise some self-discipline

[5:19:38] Voice 12: and not just talk about generalities

[5:19:42] Voice 12: about how we feel about things.

[5:19:44] Voice 12: Let's focus on the numbers

[5:19:47] Voice 12: because we actually do have other business to do here.

[5:19:50] Voice 12: If Trustee Evans and Trustee Harris have anything to say

[5:19:52] Voice 12: about this particular item, please go ahead.

[5:19:54] Voice 12: head. Otherwise, I think we're going to have a vote on it.

[5:19:56] Voice 12: Thank you.

[5:19:58] Voice 6: For myself, I would rather that this go to that this

[5:20:02] Voice 6: be removed. And if that if it needs further discussion, have

[5:20:05] Voice 6: that at Trust Council. The fact that it doesn't have a business

[5:20:08] Voice 6: case is concerning, as has been mentioned. And on top of which

[5:20:14] Voice 6: there is a regional plan for water studies, it should fall

[5:20:21] Voice 6: under that. And if they have the opportunity to seek grant

[5:20:24] Voice 6: funding elsewhere to do that so i'm i'm going to support um deferring this um at least until

[5:20:30] Voice 6: a business plan has been presented because without a business plan it shouldn't be here

[5:20:35] Voice 10: understood tristie harris yeah i had a big long-winded speech about it but i'm also in

[5:20:41] Voice 10: support of cutting this thank you all

[5:20:43] Voice 12: right uh last comment is going to come from the cal

[5:20:48] Voice 12: whoops wow better let the director sir mac he showed up did

[5:20:52] Voice 15: he slide in quickly

[5:20:53] Voice 15: He did, just in time.

[5:20:55] Voice 15: Okay, go ahead.

[5:20:55] Voice 15: I'll defer to his greater, whatever it is.

[5:21:01] Voice 11: Okay.

[5:21:02] Voice 11: Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.

[5:21:03] Voice 11: You know, I'm trying to follow this argument.

[5:21:06] Voice 11: I do see a business case presented on the Gabriola OCP LEV project.

[5:21:11] Voice 11: It's in your package.

[5:21:13] Voice 11: It's on page 175.

[5:21:17] Voice 11: Yes, it includes the $50,000 proposed for the water assessment.

[5:21:21] Voice 11: No, it didn't break down item-per-item what's in that assessment.

[5:21:26] Voice 11: It was not asked for in that detail.

[5:21:28] Voice 11: Certainly staff can provide more detail.

[5:21:30] Voice 11: We didn't just make up a number.

[5:21:32] Voice 11: It is part of the technical assessment.

[5:21:35] Voice 11: It is advancing the work of the Freshwater Sustainability Strategy, and Gabriel Ola is

[5:21:40] Voice 11: actually leading the way in implementing many of the OCP amendments in the OC project, the

[5:21:45] Voice 11: engagement.

[5:21:45] Voice 11: And all of you can agree that water itself is the key item with development on the islands.

[5:21:54] Voice 11: And this would be how we implement that in real time.

[5:21:58] Voice 11: This is the work, the pivotal work that's being done.

[5:22:01] Voice 11: So you have a business case.

[5:22:03] Voice 11: I'm shocked.

[5:22:03] Voice 11: I don't understand where that language is coming from.

[5:22:06] Voice 11: And I'm just a little confused about all that.

[5:22:09] Voice 11: So there you go.

[5:22:11] Voice 11: That's my two minutes.

[5:22:11] Voice 12: And do I understand your Director Cermak is saying that this element of the

[5:22:16] Voice 12: Gabriel OCP review is consistent or part of the regional water planning?

[5:22:24] Voice 11: Yeah, what we're trying to do is we're trying to do a regional approach to

[5:22:28] Voice 11: implement a water balance assessment for all the remaining islands out there.

[5:22:31] Voice 11: We were unsuccessful at getting a grant for them. And so we have this as a test case to refine the

[5:22:38] Voice 11: water balances that have already been done we've learned lessons and this is as we said the next

[5:22:43] Voice 11: phase in getting that information and that's the key information that has been adopted by

[5:22:49] Voice 11: trust council in the uh the housing toolkit in building up that that land assessment the suitable

[5:22:57] Voice 11: land uh availability assessment is this is the key phase along with the other side of the ecosystem

[5:23:03] Voice 11: system. So it really is pivotal data from staff's perspective, it's in a business case and you can

[5:23:10] Voice 11: choose not to fund it but it has certainly has implications and it doesn't advance the work of

[5:23:14] Voice 11: either the adopted housing strategic plan or the adopted fresh water sustainability strategic plan

[5:23:21] Voice 11: nor does it support Gabriola who's leading the way with the current best practices for OCP updates.

[5:23:27] Voice 11: There you go but I'm trying not to be too animated about it, I'm just saying it seems it's a

[5:23:33] Voice 11: difficult decision for me to understand i'm hearing that um

[5:23:38] Voice 12: director cermak has powerful

[5:23:39] Voice 12: technical reasons um to advocate for this uh director mobs uh

[5:23:51] Voice 7: thanks chair my comment actually

[5:23:52] Voice 7: is not related to this particular topic so i'm happy to wait uh

[5:23:57] Voice 12: okay uh trustee harris does your

[5:23:58] Voice 12: comment relate thank you

[5:23:59] Voice 10: yes it does relate to this um i was i was going to hold off but you

[5:24:03] Voice 10: know this this water issue has been a big issue on salt spring for a long time myself and many

[5:24:09] Voice 10: many others see this groundwater and water balance, whatever it's being called now,

[5:24:15] Voice 10: as a giant waste of time and money. There's a push currently on Salt Spring to ban from the LTC

[5:24:22] Voice 10: and staff to ban rain catchment, storage, and desalinization as a means of proving water for

[5:24:29] Voice 10: subdivision purposes. Now, if that is an eco-radical, I don't know what is. I also support

[5:24:35] Voice 10: science. I support unbiased science. We're never going to know the precise data on what's happening

[5:24:41] Voice 10: under the ground. It's just not going to happen. You know, there could be theories and this and

[5:24:46] Voice 10: that, but it's a giant waste of time and money. We have water. There's plenty of water. Why would

[5:24:51] Voice 10: we ban a rain catchment for subdivision or a desal? It doesn't make any sense. We can move

[5:24:57] Voice 10: water from one spot on an island to another. And as far as Gabriela goes, water can come from

[5:25:02] Voice 10: vancouver island easily uh trustee

[5:25:04] Voice 10: harris wasting taxpayers money i'm all in favor of cutting this

[5:25:06] Voice 10: thank you

[5:25:07] Voice 12: okay thank you we have a time concern here and the people are in favor or against

[5:25:12] Voice 12: cutting it uh please speak up and say that um but let's try to keep it tight and focused um

[5:25:19] Voice 12: ceo

[5:25:20] Voice 15: i think miss uh miss mobs was ahead of me sir again uh okay unrelated

[5:25:25] Voice 7: topic different

[5:25:27] Voice 15: i'm i'm

[5:25:28] Voice 15: unrelated too i'm i was going to just generally inquire on a more global level all right about

[5:25:33] Voice 15: about something all

[5:25:34] Voice 12: right thank you um as we continue to flail away here we have this item

[5:25:39] Voice 12: here there are different views about it uh just as we did before let's put it up to a hand vote

[5:25:43] Voice 12: we know what the dimensions of this are staff is at the firm's view that this exercise in

[5:25:51] Voice 12: gabriola is relevant to the general larger picture there are different views as to whether

[5:25:57] Voice 12: the matter can be deferred how it gets handled those who are in favor of cutting it out of the

[5:26:02] Voice 12: budget and seeking funding elsewhere for it please raise your hands now please lower your hands

[5:26:16] Voice 12: those trustees who uh are opposed to cutting out of the budget please raise your hands uh

[5:26:23] Voice 4: chair if i may uh uh julia mobbs's hand has been up during both the for and against part of the

[5:26:31] Voice 4: votes yes

[5:26:32] Voice 12: and i'm assuming she hasn't been counted okay so

[5:26:36] Trustee Luckham: we're now voting against removal

[5:26:39] Trustee Luckham: from the budget correct correct

[5:26:41] Voice 9: yeah so that's five in favor five i'm

[5:26:45] Voice 6: sorry we're voting against

[5:26:47] Voice 6: removing it from the budget so if you put your hand up for then you're voting not to remove it

[5:26:52] Voice 6: from the budget no

[5:26:54] Voice 12: the vote was to remove it from the budget and i asked people to show their hands

[5:26:59] Voice 12: and then to show their hands if they were voting against that idea let's

[5:27:05] Voice 12: start over just to be clear okay we are voting to remove this from the budget

[5:27:09] Voice 12: for the various reasons we've heard before those are in favor of removing

[5:27:13] Voice 12: please raise your hands now I

[5:27:19] Voice 9: see five in favor okay

[5:27:21] Voice 12: lower your hands those

[5:27:23] Voice 12: opposed to cutting it out raise your hands and

[5:27:28] Voice 9: that's six opposed for that

[5:27:30] Voice 12: all right all right that was um let's go back to this list here by the way just for the sake

[5:27:39] Voice 12: of tiredness if we just go up the screen a little bit please yes if that stewardship education we

[5:27:45] Voice 12: actually voted that on that already could you delete that please and uh we've made a decision

[5:28:02] Voice 12: on litigation services what's outstanding here are all these other uh more minor items which

[5:28:09] Voice 12: i don't think we should waste any more time talking about them i'm just going to put them

[5:28:14] Voice 12: up for a vote because we're just limited here those in favor of removing the secretariat

[5:28:19] Voice 12: service funding of ten thousand dollars please raise your hands lower your hands those opposed

[5:28:29] Voice 12: please vote all

[5:28:37] Voice 9: right five against five against yeah one one is stained so that would be

[5:28:45] Voice 9: um that passes all right okay

[5:28:48] Voice 12: funding we have had no discussion about this uh

[5:28:56] Voice 12: First Nation engagement of land, very briefly.

[5:29:01] Voice 12: I have no idea what this is all about.

[5:29:02] Voice 12: Does anybody know what this point is?

[5:29:04] Voice 15: Well, I do, sir.

[5:29:05] Voice 15: This is us trying to put to you just arbitrary things

[5:29:08] Voice 15: so you can take numbers off the budget.

[5:29:10] Voice 15: So we just went and said, hey, let's take $10,000 over the budget

[5:29:14] Voice 15: in keeping with the other things that are on the schedule.

[5:29:16] Voice 15: We

[5:29:17] Voice 1: don't have a

[5:29:17] Voice 15: particular rationale for it.

[5:29:20] Voice 15: We're just trying to help you out.

[5:29:22] Voice 15: Yeah, well, we need all the help

[5:29:23] Voice 12: we can get.

[5:29:23] Voice 12: Thank you.

[5:29:24] Voice 15: well i do ask that question sir yeah do you feel the exercise we've done today you there have been

[5:29:29] Voice 15: some reductions i've heard from some trustees hey you know looks like we're getting somewhere and

[5:29:34] Voice 15: others a little more hey we need to do more is there a possibility of taking the temperature

[5:29:39] Voice 15: there or seeing whether this this is being productive and well let's

[5:29:43] Voice 12: wait until we let's

[5:29:44] Voice 12: finish we have this assorted list of things that we're working through let's quickly go through

[5:29:48] Voice 12: all of them and see where we land after we finish these votes and then we'll find out whether or

[5:29:52] Voice 12: or not we can move on.

[5:29:54] Voice 12: So let's go back to that list further up.

[5:30:00] Voice 12: thank you first nations engagement plan proposals to knock out 10 grand those in favor of knocking

[5:30:07] Voice 12: it out please raise your hands lower your hands those opposed now it loses uh

[5:30:20] Voice 9: seven opposed okay

[5:30:25] Voice 12: yes it failed uh we've you heard of we had an extensive discussion about uh expenses

[5:30:31] Voice 12: regarding the ltc issue let's simply put it up to a vote those in favor of reducing the

[5:30:36] Voice 12: the LTC expense or EC expenses relating to LTCs by 10 grand.

[5:30:41] Voice 12: Please raise your hands.

[5:30:43] Voice 12: How do you do that?

[5:30:45] Voice 12: You'll figure it out.

[5:30:48] Voice 12: It's like all budget cuts.

[5:30:50] Voice 12: It's like a haircut.

[5:30:51] Voice 12: You live with it.

[5:30:52] Voice 9: Six in favor.

[5:30:53] Voice 9: Lower.

[5:30:55] Voice 12: Those opposed?

[5:30:59] Voice 9: Five opposed.

[5:31:00] Voice 9: So that passes.

[5:31:02] Voice 12: And Trustee Peterson is going to have to get a speedboat.

[5:31:05] Voice 12: NP housing access.

[5:31:07] Voice 19: Sorry, before you move on, that was something I put on

[5:31:09] Voice 19: and director mobs has had her hand up uh for a bit i think she made the suggestion of something

[5:31:15] Voice 19: that was uh potentially a reduction uh i don't think we should put it up ltc projects this is

[5:31:22] Voice 19: an inequitable way of um dealing with them

[5:31:26] Voice 19: that was my suggestion it was my suggestion i'm withdrawing

[5:31:29] Voice 19: it i'm sorry to cut

[5:31:31] Voice 10: in look we can't

[5:31:32] Voice 10: the last vote somebody's hands up for both somebody's

[5:31:35] Voice 10: I was

[5:31:35] Voice 10: up for both in the last poll.

[5:31:37] Voice 12: Please, please, let's have some order here.

[5:31:42] Voice 12: Nobody owns whatever ends up on the floor here.

[5:31:44] Voice 12: We're trying to work something out.

[5:31:46] Voice 12: The group has voted.

[5:31:47] Voice 12: Let's move on.

[5:31:49] Voice 12: Next item, ND housing access.

[5:31:51] Voice 10: I'm sorry, there was a hand up for both for and against

[5:31:56] Voice 10: on that last vote and it was easy for me to see.

[5:32:00] Voice 10: I don't urge it to be handled again.

[5:32:03] Voice 10: Thank you.

[5:32:04] Voice 10: So would you like that to be voted on again?

[5:32:08] Voice 10: Well, there was someone's hand up for both for and against, so I don't know.

[5:32:13] Voice 10: Maybe I'm wrong.

[5:32:14] Voice 12: Director Marlott,

[5:32:16] Voice 9: you deserve to vote.

[5:32:18] Voice 9: Yeah, I didn't notice that.

[5:32:21] Voice 9: It is a straw vote, so these are not official in any way.

[5:32:25] Voice 9: These are just trying to gauge where people feel.

[5:32:28] Voice 12: All right, look, this is confusing.

[5:32:29] Voice 12: Let's simply vote on this again.

[5:32:31] Voice 12: Just to clarify, the whole point here is we're into the hard business of budgeting,

[5:32:37] Voice 12: which is the time for scalpels is set aside

[5:32:40] Voice 12: and we're reaching for access because we're desperate.

[5:32:44] Voice 12: EC expenses, we've had that discussion.

[5:32:47] Voice 12: Those in favor of cutting out $10,000

[5:32:49] Voice 12: and forcing the EC and staff to get ingenious

[5:32:52] Voice 12: about saving costs.

[5:32:53] Voice 12: Those in favor of cutting out that 10 grand,

[5:32:55] Voice 12: please raise your hands now.

[5:33:00] Voice 20: Okay.

[5:33:00] Voice 12: Six in favor.

[5:33:02] Voice 12: Lower your hands.

[5:33:04] Voice 12: Those opposed.

[5:33:12] Voice 9: Looks like four opposed.

[5:33:14] Voice 9: Okay.

[5:33:15] Voice 9: So that passes, one abstained.

[5:33:16] Voice 9: all

[5:33:17] Voice 12: right so moving on to NP housing access we didn't discuss this may ask

[5:33:28] Voice 12: what it is sir yes I was just about to ask what is trustee Elliot so

[5:33:36] Voice 19: I was just

[5:33:37] Voice 19: looking through the LTC projects it's North Pender they have budgeted 15,000

[5:33:42] Voice 19: for housing accessibility it's a new project I was just suggesting a budget

[5:33:47] Voice 19: reduction but it's it's not really fair to this is what I was trying to say it's

[5:33:54] Voice 19: not really fair to gauge what LTC projects are budgeted for in this way so

[5:34:00] Voice 19: I was going to withdraw this one

[5:34:02] Voice 12: let's I agree unless anybody else objects this

[5:34:06] Voice 12: is like yeah it is inequitable to just sort of arbitrarily start butchering LTC

[5:34:13] Voice 12: projects here for the sake of knocking things down. This is just what we do. EC-sponsored

[5:34:24] Voice 12: applications. Could somebody explain this, please? Is this the thing we've talked about before where

[5:34:30] Voice 12: executive committee funds applications in certain contexts? Yes, it is, sir.

[5:34:37] Voice 12: Trustee Elliott, you have your hand up.

[5:34:39] Voice 19: Yeah. So because costs of applications have gone up,

[5:34:41] Voice 19: nonprofit societies who are making an application for rezoning or something

[5:34:45] Voice 19: um often will will apply to have that fee um waived and executive committee makes the decision

[5:34:52] Voice 19: um this is the full budget amount i was maybe thinking we could look at it and just go

[5:34:57] Voice 19: is five or ten thousand dollars but again this is nickel and diming um and i'm not sure what

[5:35:03] Voice 19: foi records management is for that's the next item um and i again would point out director

[5:35:10] Voice 19: Director Mobs had a suggestion for a $25,000 potential reduction we might want to consider before these small numbers.

[5:35:18] Voice 12: All right. That's a good idea. If that's out there, I didn't know it was floating around.

[5:35:22] Voice 12: Trustee Patrick, after we hear from you, let's hear from Director Mobs.

[5:35:27] Trustee Patrick: I think, you know, it is difficult to have an amount that you have for sponsorship.

[5:35:33] Trustee Patrick: But housing, you know, the not-for-profits that are trying to build housing projects in these islands,

[5:35:39] Trustee Patrick: This is what little bit we can do to help. And I think, you know, we all agree there's a housing crisis in our island.

[5:35:47] Trustee Patrick: So I don't think removing this amount is is going to make, you know, is going to help us keep it.

[5:35:55] Voice 12: Yeah. All right. Thank you for that. Before we let's park that for the moment.

[5:36:00] Voice 12: Let's hear from Director Mobs in this tantalizing suggestion. There may be twenty five thousand dollars to to deal with.

[5:36:06] Voice 12: um

[5:36:08] Voice 7: we do have in the budget the assumption that our new staff positions will start

[5:36:13] Voice 7: with the islands trust on june 1st so i've been connecting with staff in the background to see

[5:36:18] Voice 7: if that's still reasonable um as i don't believe the job descriptions for these roles have been

[5:36:23] Voice 7: finalized and they've not yet been submitted to the public service agency which of course

[5:36:27] Voice 7: has a fairly lengthy time frame for classifying new jobs so um i understand that we can probably

[5:36:34] Voice 7: probably push or delay the start date for the new conservancy position by three months. So that

[5:36:40] Voice 7: would generate a savings of about $27,000 that we can apply in the budget with no impact to

[5:36:44] Voice 7: operations. I would suspect the same is true for the new GIS staff position, but I would have to

[5:36:50] Voice 7: look to the CAO to understand if that job description has been submitted to PSA. I'm less

[5:36:56] Voice 7: involved with that one. But if we do delay that to September 1 as well, that would generate a

[5:37:02] Voice 7: savings of about twenty six thousand dollars as well so

[5:37:06] Voice 12: i'm seeing that the manager protected

[5:37:09] Voice 12: areas item with is that's the full amount that's been put in there i don't think that's what you

[5:37:15] Voice 12: mean to do is it no twenty

[5:37:18] Voice 7: seven thousand dollars so

[5:37:21] Voice 12: that number should read 27 and the gis position

[5:37:24] Voice 12: could we hear from ceo hudson peller whether or not a similar i'm a little

[5:37:27] Voice 15: i'm a little less

[5:37:28] Voice 15: confident to to say we can't start before september um we're in the process of moving

[5:37:33] Voice 15: We have three hires in this function, so I don't want to be handcuffed too much.

[5:37:38] Voice 15: But I think you could knock $15,000 off of it comfortably.

[5:37:43] Voice 12: I love this.

[5:37:46] Voice 12: We're so principled.

[5:37:48] Voice 12: Until we start riding the bulls here and just going crazy.

[5:37:51] Voice 12: All right, put in the $15,000.

[5:37:54] Voice 7: That would represent about a two-month delay, so August 13th.

[5:37:58] Voice 15: I did that math in my head.

[5:38:01] Voice 15: Impressive.

[5:38:02] Voice 15: Yes.

[5:38:02] Voice 12: let's deal with the manager protected areas we've heard from staff i don't think we need

[5:38:07] Voice 12: to debate this we have an opportunity here uh trustee boland is it on point yes

[5:38:15] Voice 17: i think so

[5:38:17] Voice 17: um i i'm just concerned that by reducing it we are implicitly supporting it and we haven't

[5:38:30] Voice 17: and really voted on whether we wanted

[5:38:34] Voice 12: him at home.

[5:38:35] Voice 12: Well, we did.

[5:38:35] Voice 12: We voted before about whether or not there was an appetite to consider cutting.

[5:38:41] Voice 12: Okay.

[5:38:41] Voice 12: All right.

[5:38:42] Voice 12: There wasn't.

[5:38:44] Voice 12: And so it fell by the wayside.

[5:38:47] Voice 12: Now, I don't know if the appetite has been renewed, but I'm not hearing it.

[5:38:52] Voice 12: So let's have this vote on deferring the start date, saving some money on the manager of protected areas.

[5:39:01] Voice 12: Those in favor, please raise your hands. Lower your hands. Those opposed.

[5:39:14] Voice 12: One opposed. All right. Let's go to the question. No, let's move on.

[5:39:21] Voice 12: GIS coordinator, those in favor of deferring that employment by a couple of months, please raise your hands.

[5:39:34] Voice 12: please lower your hands and those opposed to that little maneuver none

[5:39:42] Voice 9: okay all

[5:39:45] Voice 12: right let's return

[5:39:46] Voice 12: now to the ec sponsored applications uh there's definitely seems to be a very strong social good

[5:39:57] Voice 12: there uh i'm a little reluctant even to put it up for a vote but it's up there do we want to

[5:40:03] Voice 12: vote on this thing or do we think it's meritorious

[5:40:08] Voice 11: oh i see director cermak has things to say

[5:40:12] Voice 11: go ahead yeah thank you mr chair i don't mean to influence the vote but i just want to point out

[5:40:18] Voice 11: that federal funding provincial funding regional funding is all coming collectively together at

[5:40:24] Voice 11: this moment we're seeing a lot of collective announcements as well you'll see at the trust

[5:40:28] Voice 11: council my director's report shows that we're seeing uptick in development applications we're

[5:40:34] Voice 11: heading towards to our second or third busiest year on record which all points to me we can

[5:40:39] Voice 11: anticipate seeing an increased amount of applications for development especially for

[5:40:44] Voice 11: affordable housing it really um so just know that the winds are really strong and these

[5:40:51] Voice 11: applicate the sponsorship

[5:40:52] Voice 12: but just to be clear about this from community groups is that money

[5:40:58] Voice 12: mostly going to fund housing societies if

[5:41:03] Voice 11: i may mr chair what it does is it makes them not have

[5:41:06] Voice 11: to pay for that and it's usually don't have in their pockets at the moment of application

[5:41:10] Voice 11: because they get fed funding at certain intervals

[5:41:13] Voice 11: and generally it's not at the beginning, unfortunately.

[5:41:16] Voice 11: Understood.

[5:41:18] Voice 11: All right, Trustee Evans.

[5:41:24] Voice 6: Thanks.

[5:41:24] Voice 6: I guess my question is some of the,

[5:41:27] Voice 6: like whatever we put forward to take to Trust Council

[5:41:30] Voice 6: will have discussion once it gets to Trust Council as well.

[5:41:33] Voice 6: These are just our suggestions to move forward.

[5:41:36] Voice 6: And I guess my question is out of the 15,000,

[5:41:40] Voice 6: how much of that gets used?

[5:41:41] Voice 6: And the reason why I'm asking,

[5:41:42] Voice 6: It's the same with like the stewardship education and the secretariat services, both of which we're recommending to cut in their entirety.

[5:41:49] Voice 6: It's not even a percentage. So would it be possible to reduce the amount of the application or at least bring it forward to Trust Council to vote on whether we keep it or remove it?

[5:42:09] Voice 12: well we're limited here chipping away 2 000 or half of this or half of that uh it's a little

[5:42:16] Voice 12: arbitrary the way this list has come to us apart from the stuff that staff has but you know to

[5:42:22] Voice 12: trenti elliott's credit she did the effort she put in the work um and she's what she what we're

[5:42:27] Voice 12: dealing with here is what's been put on the table uh we're running out of time here i'm just going

[5:42:31] Voice 12: to put this one up for a vote and let the chips fall where they may those in favor of cutting this

[5:42:35] Voice 12: out for this year please raise your hands i see three in favor please lower hands those opposed

[5:42:46] Voice 12: please raise your hands that's

[5:42:52] Voice 9: a the polls that fails okay

[5:42:54] Voice 12: uh fy records management um this is a

[5:42:58] Voice 12: new position i think we need a word of explanation here please from staff if i may mr chair please

[5:43:05] Voice 9: yeah it's actually not new it's uh something that's in the budget was in last year as well

[5:43:10] Voice 9: The money is used roughly 50% to support staff with FOI requests. Under the FOI Act, we have 30 days to respond. So there's times when we get so many, we just get overwhelmed. So that's what part of that money is for.

[5:43:27] Voice 9: the other is for records management and there's two fronts to that the first is that we have a

[5:43:34] Voice 9: schedule of documents paper documents that need to be destroyed on a regular basis so we do need

[5:43:40] Voice 9: to bring in assistance to help us with that and then the other piece is that we would like to get

[5:43:47] Voice 9: away from paper records and into an electronic system so last year we actually used some of the

[5:43:55] Voice 9: funds to hire a consultant to help us with a recommendation on how best to do that

[5:44:02] Voice 9: an affordable way and then that would come to council. Unfortunately the consultant passed

[5:44:09] Voice 9: away so that work was never completed and due to administrative staff absences and capacity

[5:44:17] Voice 9: issues this year we've not actually resurrected that. We intend to do that next year. So that

[5:44:24] Voice 9: That $10,000 is valuable.

[5:44:28] Voice 9: If you want to lower it, you could.

[5:44:31] Voice 9: We may end up putting off a budget if FOI becomes an issue,

[5:44:34] Voice 9: but I would not eliminate it completely.

[5:44:38] Voice 12: Well, certainly

[5:44:38] Voice 12: FOI issues, I mean,

[5:44:40] Voice 12: those are things that we have no choice about.

[5:44:42] Voice 12: Those are legal obligations.

[5:44:44] Voice 12: And basically what I'm hearing from you, Director Marler,

[5:44:48] Voice 12: is we need the money to meet our legal obligation.

[5:44:52] Voice 12: Yeah,

[5:44:52] Voice 9: it's kind of like litigation.

[5:44:53] Voice 9: We just don't know what's going to hit us,

[5:44:55] Voice 9: but we do need to have a line item for it i

[5:44:58] Voice 12: don't think we need to you know we're limited

[5:45:00] Voice 12: our time here i don't think we have to belabor this one um i'm going to put this one up for a

[5:45:06] Voice 12: vote are those in favor of cutting this out please raise your hands i don't think trustee

[5:45:13] Voice 12: luckham intends to do that okay those opposed to cutting out please raise your hands okay that

[5:45:20] Voice 12: one's sold um can we on this list please remove the ones that lost out and then we'll see where

[5:45:28] Voice 12: we're at, 2.5%. All right. We have other items to deal with here, but unless I hear from either

[5:46:05] Voice 12: staff or other trustees about having some great brilliant idea about finding economies elsewhere,

[5:46:13] Voice 12: I think we've probably landed where we can land today. If anybody objects or thinks otherwise,

[5:46:19] Voice 12: otherwise please speak up now. Trustee Bolna.

[5:46:24] Voice 17: I don't have an objection but with respect

[5:46:29] Voice 17: to we removed the North Pender housing accessibility study and I'm fine with the principle of not

[5:46:35] Voice 17: interfering but I would ask Director Surmark how does that study relate to the overall

[5:46:44] Voice 17: housing assessment that we're obligated to do? Thanks.

[5:46:52] Voice 11: I'm sorry could you repeat the

[5:46:53] Voice 11: question you were asking about north pender were you

[5:46:56] Voice 17: yes just that we i believe we are obligated

[5:46:59] Voice 17: to undertake a housing affordability assessment for the province and that's been funded

[5:47:08] Voice 17: and and i wonder if that project might have been put forward before that happened or how does it

[5:47:16] Voice 17: it fit with that overall project thank you sure

[5:47:20] Voice 11: thank you and to the chair the funded project is

[5:47:25] Voice 11: for a housing needs report which will be delivered to each local trust committee when it's completed

[5:47:30] Voice 11: the proposed budget that's on page 183 of your agenda package details how north pender is

[5:47:37] Voice 11: proposing to spend those funds 10 000 of it is per consultation using the advisory planning

[5:47:43] Voice 11: and commission first nations other partners community members and developing communication

[5:47:48] Voice 11: materials and a legal review of three thousand dollars with a contingency of two thousand dollars

[5:47:54] Voice 11: so none of that is involved in doing a housing needs report all the vast majority of it is to

[5:47:59] Voice 11: do consultation and as we know consultation is expensive so that's their proposed budget of fifteen

[5:48:05] Voice 11: thousand dollars and um yeah if you want more details on page 183 and overlap to 184 of your

[5:48:11] Voice 11: agenda package thanks

[5:48:13] Voice 17: thank you thank

[5:48:15] Voice 11: you um if we can now return

[5:48:16] Voice 12: to the uh the agenda we're all

[5:48:24] Voice 12: kind of exhausted i know but uh hang in there we're gonna get there all

[5:48:30] Voice 9: right mr chair could i

[5:48:31] Voice 9: just check in with you

[5:48:34] Voice 7: yes please yeah

[5:48:36] Voice 9: so i just wanted to check with um director mobs on a

[5:48:40] Voice 9: resolution uh there isn't actually a resolution on that item yet from the fpc those were straw votes

[5:48:47] Voice 9: So I think the director would like a resolution of the FPC

[5:48:52] Voice 9: indicating what's being removed from the budget.

[5:48:55] Voice 9: So whether you do that as a single resolution

[5:48:58] Voice 9: and list all those items in dollars or do one for each,

[5:49:02] Voice 9: I'm not sure which is the best way.

[5:49:04] Voice 12: I'm going to ask Director Marler,

[5:49:05] Voice 12: I'm going to ask you to craft that resolution

[5:49:07] Voice 12: that is all-inclusive, a single resolution,

[5:49:11] Voice 12: and you beaver away on that

[5:49:13] Voice 12: while we take care of some other business here.

[5:49:15] Voice 12: and then once that's ready let us know so we can get on it get that thing approved so that we can

[5:49:19] Voice 12: get the budget in shape for what has to go to okay just

[5:49:23] Voice 9: look okay thank you and nancy can you send me

[5:49:26] Voice 9: that list thanks all right now we've

[5:49:30] Voice 12: been doing this exercise in the context of um the budget

[5:49:34] Voice 12: um draft budget overview i'm going to ask director mobs for a little help here because uh

[5:49:41] Voice 12: like pretty much everybody else here i'm starting to fade a bit and i need some direction to her

[5:49:46] Voice 12: advice after we make that resolution that the draft budget be amended according to the things

[5:49:54] Voice 12: that we've decided today do we do do we need to do anything else in terms of the budget that we bring

[5:49:59] Voice 12: forward to trust council yes

[5:50:05] Voice 7: there um okay

[5:50:09] Voice 7: so there there we will be looking for a resolution

[5:50:13] Voice 7: to forward all of the documents in the budget package

[5:50:17] Voice 7: to trust council with the amended budget,

[5:50:19] Voice 7: recognizing of course that there will be some updates

[5:50:21] Voice 7: to numbers based on the decisions made today.

[5:50:24] Voice 7: We'll be looking for resolution for that.

[5:50:25] Voice 7: There is also the five-year financial plan.

[5:50:28] Voice 12: Is that resolution in the materials?

[5:50:33] Voice 7: There's no RFD, I believe that the,

[5:50:35] Voice 7: on the cover page of the agenda,

[5:50:38] Voice 7: there's a sentence there.

[5:50:39] Voice 7: It's simply a motion to forward agenda items

[5:50:43] Voice 7: is that three seven three three i think so

[5:50:46] Voice 12: that most that motion

[5:50:47] Voice 12: i assume that motion should

[5:50:49] Voice 12: happen after we've done the amendment part of it correct okay so those two motions are

[5:50:57] Voice 12: we're awaiting those things are essential but let's wait until we've got that first one before

[5:51:02] Voice 12: we do that about these uh when you mentioned materials that would include 7.3.4 that's what

[5:51:10] Voice 12: what is in the material that's going correct among

[5:51:15] Voice 7: other things it's all items and it's all items in

[5:51:18] Voice 7: 7.3 oh

[5:51:21] Voice 12: right subject to the amendments right all right so right while while we're waiting for while

[5:51:27] Voice 12: we're waiting for those resolutions can we move on to 7.4 and deal with that uh

[5:51:36] Voice 7: we can um there

[5:51:39] Voice 7: There, yes, we can do that.

[5:51:44] Voice 20: Let's.

[5:51:44] Voice 20: There's

[5:51:45] Voice 7: one other item in the budget that probably should be looked at.

[5:51:50] Voice 7: It's related to the three projects that have come forward from SWPA.

[5:51:54] Voice 7: There's a briefing in the agenda package from the director of planning, and there is an

[5:52:02] Voice 7: RFD that will be going forward to trust counsel.

[5:52:05] Voice 7: And that is simply to seek a recommendation from financial planning committee and a decision

[5:52:10] Voice 7: from trust council as to whether or not they wish to fund these projects from the reserve fund

[5:52:15] Voice 7: so using reserve monies for anything is always a decision of trust council and fpc can make

[5:52:20] Voice 7: a recommendation as to their thoughts on that all right pc i'm

[5:52:28] Voice 12: sorry i'm sorry director mobs

[5:52:30] Voice 12: but i actually don't know what you're talking about can you please um spell it out in crayon

[5:52:36] Voice 12: for me uh

[5:52:38] Voice 7: sure so i'll take us to where this is in the agenda it's seven point three point four

[5:52:42] Voice 7: 4.6. So I'll just give a very brief background and then I'll have to turn it over to Director

[5:52:48] Voice 7: Cermak who's brought this forward. The

[5:52:51] Voice 7: SWPA project has historically sought special property

[5:52:57] Voice 7: tax requisitions that are collected in the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Area to fund the work

[5:53:01] Voice 7: of water protection on Salt Spring Island. There has been unspent tax requisitions over the years

[5:53:08] Voice 7: and so the unspent monies are sitting in the SOPA reserve fund.

[5:53:12] Voice 7: There are restrictions on what those reserve monies can be spent on.

[5:53:17] Voice 7: SOPA is proposing three projects next fiscal year that would be funded from this reserve fund.

[5:53:23] Voice 7: There's a requirement to look at those projects to see if they meet the definition

[5:53:27] Voice 7: of what can be funded from the reserve fund or not.

[5:53:30] Voice 7: And so there's an assessment that's been done in this report by the Director of Planning.

[5:53:34] Voice 7: planning. And then if there are projects that are identified that do not meet the definition

[5:53:40] Voice 7: of what should be spent out of that reserve fund, Trust Council would need to make a decision

[5:53:46] Voice 7: and pass a resolution allowing that. We have seen that in the past. Trust Council has made

[5:53:50] Voice 7: a resolution to that effect. But it is something that should be considered.

[5:53:55] Voice 11: All right. So, Director Cermak. It's always hard to follow Julia. Director Mobs. I'm not

[5:54:06] Voice 11: going to add anything else to that other than to say it's only a briefing for your understanding

[5:54:10] Voice 11: of the situation trust council is the body that needs to make a resolution because as director

[5:54:16] Voice 11: mobs pointed out the assessment is that some of the projects albeit very closely related to the

[5:54:22] Voice 11: intended purpose are don't get captured within the bylaw 154 specifically or in a very precise way

[5:54:30] Voice 11: so therefore uh salt spring island local trust community's request to use those project funds

[5:54:35] Voice 11: requires trust counsel to make a resolution staff are recommending they make that resolution

[5:54:41] Voice 11: we are so informing you if you have any objections we'd like to hear them now

[5:54:45] Voice 11: otherwise we'll just forward it to trust counsel okay uh and this is

[5:54:50] Voice 12: something that we've done

[5:54:51] Voice 12: before so uh this is your opportunity trustees to rail against the wind but i don't like this

[5:54:59] Voice 12: one or support it. No comments, let's move on. Oops, trusty ovens.

[5:55:07] Voice 6: Sorry, I'm trying to keep up with where we are and I'm trying to chase things down.

[5:55:12] Voice 6: What's the cost implications on this one again?

[5:55:16] Voice 12: Well, they're all 100% for salt spraying and nothing for everybody else.

[5:55:20] Voice 6: No, what I'm

[5:55:21] Voice 6: saying is for the funding of the water sustainability, how much is that?

[5:55:27] Voice 6: I can't see it on the page.

[5:55:32] Trustee Patrick: it's coming from

[5:55:32] Trustee Patrick: surplus funds

[5:55:36] Voice 7: $73,000 for all three

[5:55:39] Voice 12: projects okay

[5:55:40] Voice 6: thank you and those are

[5:55:42] Voice 12: surplus funds that have already been taxed like it's surplus from salt spring like their own

[5:55:49] Voice 12: funding okay um can we now turn to 7.4 while we're waiting for the other stuff we

[5:55:59] Voice 7: can please

[5:56:00] Voice 12: do uh

[5:56:01] Voice 7: Why don't you speak to 7.4.1, please.

[5:56:07] Voice 7: Okay, Agenda Item 7.4, this is our financial plan by-law.

[5:56:11] Voice 7: So the financial plan by-law goes to Trust Council at the March meeting of each year,

[5:56:16] Voice 7: seeks Trust Council's approval, and then is forwarded to the Minister of Municipal Affairs for approval at their end.

[5:56:23] Voice 7: Once we receive approval from the Minister, Trust Council will then adopt the budget, usually via RWM.

[5:56:30] Voice 7: There are some assumptions that are built into the five-year financial plan.

[5:56:36] Voice 7: Of course, this is projecting into the future, and we can't know for certainty what spending might be.

[5:56:41] Voice 7: However, we do base our assumptions in sound data, typically.

[5:56:46] Voice 7: If you take a look at page 230 of the agenda package, there's a table there that highlights what some of the assumptions are that have been built into the five-year financial plan.

[5:56:59] Voice 7: So the way this is working is staff have next year's draft budget, that's year one of the five-year financial plan, and then we begin with that and use that to project out costs for year two through year five.

[5:57:13] Voice 7: I can walk through the assumptions that have been built into that for the benefit of the committee, or I can simply take questions if the committee has read this.

[5:57:22] Voice 12: i think we're going to let you uh receive questions from the trustees so let's have an

[5:57:28] Voice 12: opportunity now for them to ask questions about this if they have any trustee peterson

[5:57:34] Voice 4: i have no questions i'm ready to make the motion okay

[5:57:37] Voice 12: well hang on here i have

[5:57:39] Voice 12: a director i have

[5:57:41] Voice 7: a quick comment actually thanks just quick

[5:57:44] Voice 7: comment if i may i did

[5:57:47] Voice 7: notice the um the section in the

[5:57:50] Voice 7: the table related to LTA property tax revenue growth. So it indicates there that the minimum

[5:58:01] Voice 7: surplus balance required under policy would be met in all five years. That is not true.

[5:58:07] Voice 7: In the formulation of this five-year financial plan, there are some years that fall below

[5:58:12] Voice 7: policy minimum. It's not by a significant amount. It would not be by any amount that would be

[5:58:17] Voice 7: putting the organization in any jeopardy, but we do fall slightly below the recommended amount.

[5:58:22] Voice 7: And that's simply to ensure that tax increases are not too high in all five years. What tends

[5:58:28] Voice 7: to happen in the island stress reality is we end up with more surplus monies than we expect to have.

[5:58:34] Voice 7: And so to project a small amount below minimum is not a risky space for us to land. But I thought

[5:58:40] Voice 7: I'd make that correction. There's also a comment that notes we've got a special property tax

[5:58:45] Voice 7: requisition for salt spring island that's an outdated comment from last year and so we'll

[5:58:49] Voice 7: have to change that there's no special tax levy for salt spring island it's simply funding for

[5:58:54] Voice 7: projects from reserve so those are corrections that i'll make before this goes to council

[5:58:58] Voice 7: um and again happy to take questions and

[5:59:02] Voice 12: uh well i've got a question for you um i'm assuming

[5:59:05] Voice 12: and i that the five-year plan will have to be tweaked somewhat to take into account

[5:59:10] Voice 12: the changes we're making to the draft budget.

[5:59:14] Voice 7: Absolutely.

[5:59:15] Voice 7: So I'll be adjusting the five-year plan.

[5:59:17] Voice 7: So if there's any significant

[5:59:20] Voice 7: changes to these assumptions.

[5:59:21] Voice 12: So when we pass this resolution,

[5:59:24] Voice 12: it's on the understanding that the financial plan bylaw

[5:59:28] Voice 12: is going to be amended to reflect the changes

[5:59:29] Voice 12: that we are going to agree to in about 15 minutes or something.

[5:59:35] Voice 12: Right?

[5:59:37] Voice 12: That's right.

[5:59:38] Voice 7: And then I will update it again

[5:59:40] Voice 7: then after Wednesday's trust council meeting,

[5:59:42] Voice 7: if there's changes there.

[5:59:43] Voice 12: Right.

[5:59:45] Voice 12: Okay.

[5:59:47] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson, this is your turn.

[5:59:51] Voice 4: Thank you.

[5:59:52] Voice 4: And just for clarity,

[5:59:53] Voice 4: should the motion be changed to as amended?

[6:00:01] Voice 12: I move

[6:00:04] Voice 4: that Financial Planning Committee

[6:00:06] Voice 4: forward By-law 193

[6:00:08] Voice 4: Alliance Trust Council Financial Plan 2024-25

[6:00:12] Voice 4: as amended to Trust Council for approval.

[6:00:16] Voice 12: Do we have a seconder?

[6:00:19] Voice 12: I see Trustee Yates is seconding the motion.

[6:00:23] Voice 12: I'm not going to ask for debate.

[6:00:26] Voice 12: I'm putting the matter up to vote.

[6:00:28] Voice 12: Those in favor, please raise your hands.

[6:00:32] Voice 12: You may now lower your hands.

[6:00:34] Voice 12: Those who are opposed, please raise.

[6:00:39] Voice 12: Okay, there's one opposed.

[6:00:40] Voice 12: Motion passes.

[6:00:42] Voice 12: Director Mott, could you please address 7.4.2?

[6:00:48] Voice 7: Happy to.

[6:00:49] Voice 7: This is our draft Revenue Anticipation Borrowing By-law.

[6:00:52] Voice 7: So this goes to Trust Council each year

[6:00:54] Voice 7: when they approve the budget.

[6:00:55] Voice 7: It is simply a by-law that is approved

[6:00:58] Voice 7: that gives permission for the Islands Trust to borrow

[6:01:01] Voice 7: in the event that we are short on cash

[6:01:04] Voice 7: from April 1 to July when we receive our property taxes.

[6:01:07] Voice 7: That has happened only once for a two-week period

[6:01:10] Voice 7: in Islands Trust history many, many years ago.

[6:01:13] Voice 7: We are not in danger of running out of cash since then.

[6:01:18] Voice 7: The bylaw does give limitations on the amount of borrowing.

[6:01:22] Voice 7: It's at $2 million, and that represents about two and a half months of spending,

[6:01:26] Voice 7: and also caps a percentage, which indicates 1% above prime as at the borrowing date.

[6:01:32] Voice 7: This is mainly an administrative bylaw that goes to Council every year.

[6:01:38] Voice 12: Thank you.

[6:01:40] Voice 12: I don't think we have to belabor this one.

[6:01:42] Voice 12: Do we have a motion?

[6:01:44] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson?

[6:01:48] Voice 4: I move that Financial Planning Committee Forward By-law 194,

[6:01:52] Voice 4: Islands Trust Council Revenue Anticipation Borrowing By-law 2024-25

[6:01:57] Voice 4: to Trust Council for approval.

[6:01:59] Voice 12: Do we have a seconder?

[6:02:01] Voice 12: Trustee Elliott has beat Trustee Yates to the finish line.

[6:02:07] Voice 12: Trustee Elliott has seconded.

[6:02:09] Voice 12: I'm putting the matter up for a vote.

[6:02:10] Voice 12: Those in favor, please raise your hands.

[6:02:14] Voice 12: You may now lower your hands.

[6:02:17] Voice 12: Those opposed?

[6:02:21] Voice 12: Thank you. The next two items, 7.5 and 7.6, are, I think, and it's subject to a correction by

[6:02:30] Voice 12: Director Mobs, the one person who actually knows this stuff. This is the financial report and

[6:02:36] Voice 12: financial forecast that flows from those results with respect to the third quarter of this fiscal

[6:02:41] Voice 12: year. This is essentially, you know, it doesn't really require trustee input. This is really

[6:02:49] Voice 12: reporting to trust council and staff is seeking authorization from us to report basically the

[6:02:56] Voice 12: q3 financial results and the forecasts flowing from that unless i hear any comments or objections

[6:03:04] Voice 12: i propose to take uh that these uh requests for decision have both been approved by consent

[6:03:13] Voice 12: Hearing no objection, I am ruling that those have passed.

[6:03:23] Voice 12: 7.7, forecasted overexpansion by General Ledger budget planning.

[6:03:30] Voice 12: Director Mobs is going to explain to us who General Ledger actually is.

[6:03:36] Voice 12: That was a joke.

[6:03:40] Voice 7: Thanks, Chair.

[6:03:42] Voice 7: I will be brief in my comments around this report.

[6:03:46] Voice 7: So this report is before financial planning committee due to a policy that we have on financial reporting. So anytime there is an actual overspend of $20,000 or more by general ledger line item, which is basically an account in the accounting system, or an anticipated overspending of $20,000 or more by deal line item, we are required by policy to report to executive committee to seek any mitigation from them if they wish to proceed.

[6:04:16] Voice 7: provide some. The policy also indicates that we will share this information with financial

[6:04:20] Voice 7: planning committee. And so that's what we're doing here. Most of this information has already

[6:04:26] Voice 7: been shared with financial planning committee and executive because we already identified many of

[6:04:30] Voice 7: these areas of overspending at quarter two reporting. There's been no direction from

[6:04:36] Voice 7: executive committee at this stage to mitigate these areas of overspending. And that's primarily

[6:04:41] Voice 7: because most of the areas of overspending have equal and offsetting, usually more than equal

[6:04:46] Voice 7: offsetting areas of underspending. So, in terms of the Islands Trust budget as a whole, we are not

[6:04:51] Voice 7: in an overspending state. In fact, we're in the opposite. We're in a state of underspending.

[6:04:56] Voice 7: So, it's your information. I'm happy to take questions.

[6:04:59] Voice 12: Could we actually have the screen show? We have the introductory language, but we don't actually

[6:05:04] Voice 12: have the list here. I think it would be, and your point, I think the group understands your

[6:05:11] Voice 12: your point that on balance we're not overspending but there's just select areas where there's some

[6:05:16] Voice 12: overspending but it gets compensated for in other areas perhaps you could very briefly just zip

[6:05:21] Voice 12: through the more material overspends just for the just to bring people up to speed okay the first

[6:05:31] Voice 7: item on the table is related to contracted temporary staffing so this line item we actually

[6:05:36] Voice 7: do expect to see overspending every year is it is where we record the cost for temporarily hired

[6:05:43] Voice 7: staff or contractors to do the work of staff when we've got vacancies. And so where we see an

[6:05:48] Voice 7: overspending here, we would almost always see an underspending in salaries expense, which is the

[6:05:52] Voice 7: case this year. We've got the list on screen of the expenses that are contributing to this.

[6:05:59] Voice 7: One that's near and dear to my heart is $10,000 that is being spent to hire a firm to prepare

[6:06:04] Voice 7: pair of the Islands Trust Conservancy financial statements, acknowledging that I still don't have

[6:06:08] Voice 7: my new staff person. So that's going to help me out. There's also been $10,000 to hire an external

[6:06:14] Voice 7: consultant to review the IS team structure and help with revamping the manager job profile and

[6:06:19] Voice 7: also help with the hiring of that position. We also used $10,000 to do a review of clerical

[6:06:25] Voice 7: administration structure within Islands Trust that happened earlier on in the year. And then

[6:06:29] Voice 7: we've had 10 000 to help offset a vacancy in the planning team assistant position so those over

[6:06:35] Voice 12: those expenditures that uh they seem to be just directly correlated to our um vacancies is that

[6:06:45] Voice 12: correct uh

[6:06:45] Voice 7: often yes that that they yes primarily that's that's what they're related to the other

[6:06:51] Voice 12: two items forward we've we've budgeted 70 000 for legal general and we've overspent by 27 000

[6:06:57] Voice 12: and uh that's all explained there it's all about getting legal opinions uh by law enforcement we

[6:07:07] Voice 12: budget 80 000 and we're over by third quarter we're over by 34 000 and that's got

[6:07:16] Voice 12: to do okay

[6:07:17] Voice 12: please explain that

[6:07:19] Voice 7: 34 000 is where we forecast to be overspent by the end of the year all four

[6:07:24] Voice 12: thank you and so

[6:07:32] Voice 20: you're

[6:07:38] Voice 12: projecting we're going to underspend uh defense litigation by 33 000

[6:07:42] Voice 12: uh

[6:07:45] Voice 7: yes so we we have been awarded a cost recovery for some of our legal litigation and so we are

[6:07:50] Voice 7: reflecting those recoveries here we're showing it simply to show that there's areas of offset

[6:07:55] Voice 7: for the other legal areas of overspend okay

[6:07:59] Voice 12: and then we've got ltc meeting expenses

[6:08:02] Voice 12: and we've actually already talked about that so we can move on thank you for that briefing

[6:08:08] Voice 12: uh i think you have another briefing at 7.8 uh

[6:08:14] Voice 7: this is actually coming to you from trust area

[6:08:16] Voice 7: services so i'd turn it over to director freighter thank

[6:08:19] Voice 12: you hello

[6:08:22] Voice 16: there um this is being brought to

[6:08:24] Voice 16: you just for comment at this point we've provided a draft property tax notice to you um and looking

[6:08:30] Voice 16: for feedback um which can be provided in this meeting or just by email shortly after from

[6:08:34] Voice 16: from trustees to let us know if there's changes

[6:08:37] Voice 16: that you'd like to have noted.

[6:08:39] Voice 16: I have heard from one trustee already suggesting

[6:08:41] Voice 16: that we add a double asterisk or a different symbol

[6:08:44] Voice 16: on page two for the property tax change

[6:08:48] Voice 16: tenure history chart, just to distinguish it

[6:08:50] Voice 16: from an asterisk higher up in the document.

[6:08:53] Voice 16: So I'll stop there and see if there's comment.

[6:08:57] Voice 12: I'm going to ask members to not comment at this juncture

[6:09:02] Voice 12: because we are limited in time but i am going to invite them to follow up on your invitation that

[6:09:08] Voice 12: if after they've read this as closely and as carefully as they can they will um submit to

[6:09:14] Voice 12: you any comments suggestions that they have directly thank you director thank you 8.1

[6:09:21] Voice 12: allocation of surplus surplus draws we actually have a decision to make here uh director mobs

[6:09:26] Voice 12: actually

[6:09:33] Voice 7: this is a briefing that was brought forward from the january meeting as there was

[6:09:38] Voice 7: no time to address it at that time. It's now irrelevant because staff have taken liberties

[6:09:44] Voice 7: to reallocate the surplus to this project anyway. The

[6:09:51] Voice 7: most recent version of the budget,

[6:09:52] Voice 7: we had more surplus funds available. So we were able to allocate to both the Salt Spring Island

[6:09:57] Voice 7: project and the Microsoft conversion instead of having to make a choice. This briefing was here

[6:10:01] Voice 7: when there was a choice to be made. We were giving that choice to the committee. So irrelevant to

[6:10:05] Voice 7: this point.

[6:10:06] Voice 12: More confirmation that sometimes when you ignore something, it solves itself. 8.2.

[6:10:11] Voice 12: Briefing.

[6:10:16] Voice 7: Okay. This is a briefing that was prepared for Trust Council for their last

[6:10:26] Voice 7: meeting for the budget session. You might remember that Financial Planning Committee

[6:10:30] Voice 7: passed a resolution asking staff to summarize various pieces of information in one place.

[6:10:37] Voice 7: The intent, I believe, was to make it easier for Trust Council to have information in one spot

[6:10:42] Voice 7: that would help them with budget decisions. There was a comment made at Trust Council that this did

[6:10:47] Voice 7: not quite hit the mark, that this wasn't exactly what was being asked for. So if there's a desire

[6:10:55] Voice 7: for this report to travel to Trust Council again, we would be looking for clearer direction on what

[6:11:00] Voice 7: is expected before we send it along.

[6:11:05] Voice 12: I think the problem, Director Mobs, is it has numbers.

[6:11:09] Voice 12: and if you could give them the data without the numbers,

[6:11:12] Voice 12: you would probably be successful, but that's not an option.

[6:11:17] Voice 12: I don't think we're going to resolve the communication.

[6:11:20] Voice 12: I mean, there's a translation difficulty.

[6:11:23] Voice 12: I mean, really, if you boil it down,

[6:11:25] Voice 12: the request was to make it simpler for people,

[6:11:27] Voice 12: and it's evidently it's not simple enough.

[6:11:30] Voice 12: So I think we don't have the time to canvas those suggestions now.

[6:11:36] Voice 12: I think it's best if we just leave it at that

[6:11:38] Voice 12: and throw the problem back at you and hope for the best how does that sound um

[6:11:45] Voice 7: okay staff have

[6:11:46] Voice 7: not prepared this report for the latest um pieces of information um so if there's a desire for the

[6:11:55] Voice 7: committee to send this forward to trust council again we'd be looking for a decision on that front

[6:12:00] Voice 7: we'd be hoping for a resolution and then you would be getting something that looks identical to this

[6:12:04] Voice 7: with updated numbers so

[6:12:07] Voice 12: the question before us is whether there's any point sending it to trust

[6:12:10] Voice 12: council is that right because if they're not happy with it they don't understand it they're going to

[6:12:14] Voice 12: be just as confused as when they get the major material anything trustee elliot i

[6:12:22] Voice 19: think it was

[6:12:22] Voice 19: useful uh i don't remember the conversation when trustee said it wasn't um i guess particularly

[6:12:29] Voice 19: what i'm looking at the risks posed by unavailability of staff resources the staff

[6:12:34] Voice 19: resources required across all supported projects it does seem to meet um that criteria um i don't

[6:12:46] Voice 19: know i thought it was a useful summary do we want it for our next trust council um is it useful

[6:12:55] Voice 12: i didn't i didn't i didn't realize there was an rfd with this because the agenda show that he

[6:13:00] Voice 12: doesn't indicate it but um is this something that requires a resolution to forward to

[6:13:05] Voice 12: trust council or is it just being brought forward for our information uh

[6:13:12] Voice 7: this was something that

[6:13:13] Voice 7: went there was a resolution made by ftc to create this and send it forward to the most recent trust

[6:13:20] Voice 7: council meeting um so it's if there's a desire to have something like this go forward again i would

[6:13:26] Voice 7: be seeking a resolution uh to that effect once again and there was

[6:13:31] Voice 7: some comments made that that

[6:13:32] Voice 7: it needed

[6:13:32] Voice 7: revision i

[6:13:34] Voice 12: understand uh trustees uh we have a question here we have the briefing uh

[6:13:39] Voice 12: the question is do we want to repeat something like this to send it off to trust council

[6:13:44] Voice 12: notwithstanding that it may not be as accessible as they as could be ideally but uh is this

[6:13:50] Voice 12: something of the summary is this something that we want to uh stand in the march package for the

[6:13:54] Voice 12: benefit of the trustees trustees please comment trustee bowen uh

[6:13:59] Voice 17: i liked this a lot i think it's

[6:14:01] Voice 17: a start and I think it came from the forecast and the unspent money but then the second table

[6:14:11] Voice 17: is very useful the discussion of vacancies and the risk of staff resources and that table where

[6:14:21] Voice 17: it talks about you know business cases and where they came where the support came from

[6:14:30] Voice 17: I know it's changed, but I find it very useful.

[6:14:34] Voice 17: And I think it's the start of a conversation about how we present data.

[6:14:39] Voice 17: And Trust Council should be encouraged to look at it.

[6:14:43] Voice 17: But I suppose it depends on how much effort is required to update it.

[6:14:49] Voice 17: Thank you.

[6:14:50] Voice 17: I

[6:14:53] Voice 19: can speak to that.

[6:14:54] Voice 19: That was my question.

[6:14:56] Voice 19: Does staff have time for this?

[6:14:58] Voice 19: We're in a bit of a crunch.

[6:15:03] Voice 7: So does staff have time?

[6:15:05] Voice 7: Very interesting question.

[6:15:06] Voice 7: This time of year is actually the crunchiest time of year for staff in terms of budget.

[6:15:12] Voice 7: The Financial Planning Committee is meeting today.

[6:15:14] Voice 7: It's Wednesday.

[6:15:16] Voice 7: The Executive Committee Agenda Package is heading out the door on Friday, and it is

[6:15:20] Voice 7: meant to include all materials that are heading to Trust Council.

[6:15:24] Voice 7: So all of the budget changes and updates to reports, I will be making those over the next

[6:15:32] Voice 7: day in the

[6:15:33] Voice 7: hopes that I can get through them to get them into the EC agenda package. If this is

[6:15:38] Voice 7: desired, I would suggest it won't land in the executive committee agenda package. At very best,

[6:15:43] Voice 7: it would go straight to trust counsel and bypass executive committee. That would be the only way

[6:15:48] Voice 7: it would be workable.

[6:15:51] Voice 12: Although, you know, the executive committee is actually here.

[6:15:55] Voice 12: Those members know what we're dealing with. So I think it's six and one half dozen the other in

[6:16:00] Voice 12: in that case. Trustee Patrick?

[6:16:03] Trustee Patrick: I think this is more related to the corporate planning that's

[6:16:07] Trustee Patrick: coming. What is the right level of detail that Trust Council is going to want to see? How are

[6:16:13] Trustee Patrick: projects managed going forward in relation to the corporate plan? So I think there's a discussion

[6:16:18] Trustee Patrick: item, but maybe it's a little too premature for this Trust Council.

[6:16:22] Voice 12: All right. Well, we are running

[6:16:25] Voice 12: out of time here. We have a question here. If anybody wants this to go to Trust Council,

[6:16:31] Voice 12: so we need a resolution to that whoops is that the ceo is waving his hands violently well i'm

[6:16:36] Voice 15: just relying on my wisdom sir i do not think just if you want a recommendation i do not think

[6:16:42] Voice 15: trustees are going to be spending a lot of time with this document and i think it is a preparatory

[6:16:46] Voice 15: document to the corporate planning process and it would be ably sent to them the sub fpc group

[6:16:52] Voice 15: and no one at trust council will notice its absence

[6:16:55] Voice 12: probably given

[6:16:57] Voice 15: the volume volumes of

[6:16:59] Voice 15: information that are being provided in the timelines in front of miss mobs i understand

[6:17:06] Voice 12: but the issue is in front of us so um we have your advice we have the input from everybody

[6:17:13] Voice 12: and we have some preferences but if after hearing all of that somebody wants to make a motion it's

[6:17:19] Voice 12: up to them but if they don't make a motion we're going to move on to the next item okay 8.3 please

[6:17:44] Voice 11: I'm sorry, I was not keeping up to pace, I admit it, Community Planning Grant Special

[6:17:51] Voice 11: Provincial Fund.

[6:17:52] Voice 11: Oh my goodness, this is much delayed, I thought we'd already seen this.

[6:17:57] Voice 11: So this was in follow-up to a conversation that staff had had with the provincial government

[6:18:04] Voice 11: staff from the Ministry of Municipal Affairs, in regards to the Provincial Funding Process Protocol Agreement.

[6:18:15] Voice 11: And based on that discussion, I said, could you please put that in writing?

[6:18:20] Voice 11: They've done so. They've attached it here.

[6:18:22] Voice 11: And they basically said that they believe that the existing protocol agreement is null and void for the reasons they put there.

[6:18:31] Voice 11: I assume you've all read it.

[6:18:32] Voice 11: um but they also point out that we have more funding coming in than we have in a long time

[6:18:37] Voice 11: from them that funding remains ongoing and it doesn't mean we can't ask for more funding in

[6:18:43] Voice 11: the future especially as we get the policy statement work undergoing or potentially

[6:18:48] Voice 11: implemented especially as we get the first nations engagement funding that we received

[6:18:52] Voice 11: and we try to harmonize those two items the policy statement the first nation funding

[6:18:57] Voice 11: funding towards updating OCPs and land use bylaws in a predictable, consistent manner

[6:19:03] Voice 11: in the near future.

[6:19:04] Voice 11: But the message here is they think that the existing agreement is null and void.

[6:19:11] Voice 12: If I'm reading it correctly, you're telling us it's been null and void for 25 years.

[6:19:15] Voice 12: Is that right?

[6:19:16] Voice 12: Pretty close.

[6:19:17] Voice 12: That is correct.

[6:19:19] Voice 12: And we never thought that was the case?

[6:19:23] Voice 11: I don't know what people thought.

[6:19:25] Voice 11: it well

[6:19:27] Voice 12: in this case uh the protocol agreement is what the province says it means um okay i guess

[6:19:36] Voice 12: that's an issue uh but that seems like something that should probably be discussed at trust council

[6:19:42] Voice 12: but outside of the framework of what we do here at fpc really but um in order to get this before

[6:19:49] Voice 12: trust council for its information um do we need a resolution to that effect or is that just something

[6:19:54] Voice 12: that will happen staff will do that regardless i believe the

[6:20:01] Voice 12: resolution uh well my advice to

[6:20:05] Voice 12: people is it's a very good idea to have this this is an important issue uh and i think it's

[6:20:10] Voice 12: important that the trustees have it since it goes into the mix into their reasoning so i'd invite

[6:20:15] Voice 12: somebody to make a resolution that this information be made available to trust council at the next

[6:20:19] Voice 12: meeting trustee boland i

[6:20:22] Voice 17: move that the response from the province with respect to provincial

[6:20:27] Voice 17: funding process protocol agreement is discussed at trust council um especially i don't know whether

[6:20:35] Voice 17: i need to add in the fact that there appears to be no agreement the um especially

[6:20:41] Voice 12: the resolution

[6:20:43] Voice 12: a resolution doesn't have to have the especially part you just okay fine

[6:20:46] Voice 17: then i just moved at the

[6:20:48] Voice 17: correspondence from the province with respect to provincial funding process protocol agreement

[6:20:56] Voice 17: agreement be discussed at trust council do

[6:21:01] Voice 12: we have a seconder

[6:21:03] Voice 20: trustee

[6:21:05] Voice 12: patrick is seconding

[6:21:07] Voice 20: this

[6:21:07] Voice 12: is straightforward it's an information item those in favor of forwarding this item to trust

[6:21:11] Voice 12: council for its information please raise your hands hang on what's going on all right please

[6:21:24] Voice 12: lower your hands anybody opposed all right right now

[6:21:29] Voice 20: okay

[6:21:29] Voice 12: nobody opposed that one passes thank you

[6:21:34] Voice 12: there is no new business getting down to the short strokes here we're almost there

[6:21:39] Voice 12: but we are waiting director marler we have another item here we have a work program update

[6:21:47] Voice 12: a request for decision the request is the usual thing of approving the proposed work program as

[6:21:54] Voice 12: presented or as amended i dread to ask the question is if anybody wants to make any amendments to that

[6:21:59] Voice 12: that but i suppose i'm honor bound to ask the question any other amendments no director mobs

[6:22:13] Voice 12: is there anything that we should be our attention should be brought to in particular or not uh

[6:22:23] Voice 7: nothing of particular note this is just the the plans for the upcoming quarter if this plan does

[6:22:31] Voice 7: not reflect what financial planning committee wishes to work on then we would be looking for

[6:22:35] Voice 7: Thank you.

[6:22:36] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson?

[6:22:39] Voice 4: I'm ready to make the motion, but I'll defer to Trustee Ellett in case she's going to question it.

[6:22:43] Voice 19: I was going to do it.

[6:22:45] Voice 19: All right.

[6:22:46] Voice 4: Why don't the two of you

[6:22:46] Voice 12: figure out who goes first?

[6:22:47] Voice 19: I move that Financial Planning Committee approve the proposed work program report and forward it to Trust Council for approval.

[6:22:57] Voice 12: Do I take it that Trustee Peterson is seconding that?

[6:23:00] Voice 4: Certainly.

[6:23:02] Voice 12: Those in favor, please raise your hands.

[6:23:08] Voice 12: Please now lower your hands.

[6:23:10] Voice 12: Those opposed, please vote.

[6:23:12] Voice 12: vote. Trustee Paris is opposed. Okay. Thank you. That takes care of that. Now, as we await

[6:23:23] Voice 12: the key resolution from Director Marler, we have one more item here. Next meeting. I can't

[6:23:32] Voice 12: remember now. We need a resolution, don't we, for the next meeting? No, hang on. Haven't

[6:23:37] Voice 12: we already resolved that at the beginning of the year?

[6:23:40] Voice 19: I think you just get to say it.

[6:23:42] Voice 12: Yeah, okay.

[6:23:43] Voice 9: Yes, you have.

[6:23:43] Voice 12: I see Director Marler has returned.

[6:23:47] Voice 9: Yeah, no, I've sent the resolution to Nancy,

[6:23:51] Voice 9: so she should be able to bring it up on the screen.

[6:23:58] Voice 12: And I think we need two resolutions, do we not?

[6:24:00] Voice 12: Or no, hang on, we need one from you

[6:24:02] Voice 12: and then we have the other one.

[6:24:06] Voice 19: So

[6:24:16] Voice 9: while this is coming up,

[6:24:17] Voice 9: it's a single resolution, list the items,

[6:24:21] Voice 9: just indicates the dollar amount by line item to reduce.

[6:24:24] Voice 9: Jews. So if there is any debate or objections about some of them, you may want to then separate

[6:24:33] Voice 9: them out.

[6:24:34] Voice 12: Be careful now. We don't want to invite any more talk about this stuff. We've beaten it

[6:24:38] Voice 12: to death.

[6:24:42] Voice 19: It's good to get eyes. Yeah. Okay.

[6:24:58] Voice 12: Perhaps we could have the screen made a little

[6:25:03] Voice 12: larger here, please. Okay. We need a mover and a seconder for this motion. All

[6:25:19] Voice 19: new. Oh, no, no,

[6:25:20] Voice 19: Oh, no. I put in the work over the lunch break. I'd like to move this if I could.

[6:25:26] Voice 12: All right, Trustee Elliott.

[6:25:29] Voice 19: I move that the Financial Planning Committee amend the draft budget for fiscal year 2024-25 by reducing the following line items by the amount indicated.

[6:25:39] Voice 19: 1. Contingency Fund, $5,000.

[6:25:42] Voice 19: 2. Islands Trust Conservancy Ecosystem Mapping, $18,000.

[6:25:46] Voice 19: 3. Office Supplies, $3,000.

[6:25:49] Voice 19: 4. Trustee Office for Galliano.

[6:25:52] Voice 19: $5,500.

[6:25:54] Voice 19: Five, stewardship education, $15,000.

[6:25:58] Voice 19: Six, history and heritage grants and aid, $10,000.

[6:26:02] Voice 19: Seven, Salt Spring office relocation, $50,000.

[6:26:06] Voice 19: Eight, legal litigation, $35,000.

[6:26:10] Voice 19: Nine, secretariat services, $10,000.

[6:26:13] Voice 19: Ten, executive committee expenses as chairs of local trust committees, $10,000.

[6:26:20] Voice 19: 11. Manager of Protected Areas, $27,000

[6:26:23] Voice 19: 12. Geographic Information Systems Coordinator, $15,000

[6:26:29] Voice 12: Do we have a seconder?

[6:26:34] Voice 12: Trustee Luckman has raised his hand to indicate he is seconding.

[6:26:38] Voice 12: I'm now

[6:26:39] Voice 12: raising this.

[6:26:41] Trustee Patrick: Can we confirm the legal? Is that the right amount?

[6:26:45] Trustee Patrick: I thought it was being reduced to $35,000, not by $35,000.

[6:26:50] Trustee Patrick: But maybe I'm wrong.

[6:26:54] Voice 9: i think all of it was reductions by the amount it

[6:26:57] Voice 12: was it was by 35 000. yeah okay

[6:27:07] Voice 12: okay i'm going to just keep that to myself um i'm not going to put this up to a vote those

[6:27:13] Voice 12: in favor please raise your hands in favor yeah those opposed please raise your hands

[6:27:30] Voice 12: i see one of those resolution passes so the budget's been amended accordingly and i i

[6:27:37] Voice 12: believe the last item we have to do now is uh or did we already do this uh i i apologize i'm

[6:27:44] Voice 12: getting a little punch drunk here uh do we need a resolution to forward the um agenda items at 7.3

[6:27:51] Voice 12: to press council as amended that

[6:27:55] Voice 7: would be great and 7.4 as well the bylaws okay so

[6:28:01] Voice 12: we haven't done 7.3 past that yet have we no and we did 7.4 before while we're waiting yeah

[6:28:09] Voice 12: Yeah. So we need a resolution to forward the budget materials to trust council. Is that in

[6:28:14] Voice 12: the documentation or are we just going to wing it? On screen.

[6:28:20] Voice 12: Oh yeah. It's very simple. Do we

[6:28:24] Voice 12: have a mover who's prepared to speak those words at 7.3? Trustee Evans.

[6:28:32] Voice 6: I move that financial

[6:28:33] Voice 6: planning committee forward agenda item 7.3 budget materials to trust council as amended.

[6:28:41] Voice 6: Thank you.

[6:28:44] Voice 12: Seconder? Trustee Graham. Those in favor, please vote now.

[6:28:54] Voice 12: You want one more?

[6:28:56] Voice 12: And hang on, am I up there? And please lower your hands. And those opposed, please raise your hands, and I don't think Trustee Patrick is opposing here. Thank you.

[6:29:12] Voice 12: you can be opposed uh that passes and um we have a budget we have the materials to send to trust

[6:29:21] Voice 12: council uh the only thing i need to do now is to advise you the next meeting is it wednesday may

[6:29:28] Voice 12: 29th uh from 10 30 to 3 p.m and as i mentioned at the outset of the meeting uh we need to change

[6:29:36] Voice 12: our lens to cope with all the naughty problems and strategic issues that we keep bumbling across

[6:29:43] Voice 12: across at fbc they keep coming up because we basically do not have a modern corporate planning

[6:29:50] Voice 12: strategic approach to developing funding strategies and funding directions i mean

[6:29:58] Voice 12: things ought to come together

[6:30:00] Voice 12: talked about it ad nauseum that's what corporate planning is all about and as i mentioned before

[6:30:04] Voice 12: we are going to have to change our practices to align with corporate planning and so um that's

[6:30:09] Voice 12: what we've got to look forward to i think in the next coming year uh we did not have a closed

[6:30:15] Voice 12: meeting nothing to rise and report does anybody have anything else you'd like to add before we

[6:30:20] Voice 12: adjourn no i can just see there's a

[6:30:24] Voice 12: huge enthusiasm for people to leave i want to thank everybody for

[6:30:28] Voice 12: your patience and endurance it's been a very long day we did

[6:30:33] Voice 17: a lot of work thank you for doing such

[6:30:35] Voice 17: a great job and thanks for staff for responding so quickly to all our suggestions here

[6:30:44] Voice 12: i think

[6:30:45] Voice 12: staff gets all the credit here yeah

[6:30:48] Voice 17: yeah

[6:30:49] Voice 12: i mean my job is basically traffic up here and um but

[6:30:53] Voice 12: But anyhow, thank you, everybody.

[6:30:55] Voice 12: We move on.

[6:30:56] Voice 19: Thank you, team.

[6:30:57] Voice 19: All right, have

[6:30:59] Voice 12: a good evening.