Islands Trust Council regular meeting, July 12, 2024

[0:00:00] Trustee Gedye: from Sue Ellen to add the topic of increased training for trustees so trustee fast and

[0:00:08] Trustee Gedye: I don't want to spend time on it this meeting but I thought I'd put it on the agenda we can

[0:00:16] Trustee Gedye: possibly at the end put it into our matrix of work plan and decide once we know more about it

[0:00:25] Trustee Gedye: where we want to put it um and how we want to deal with it does that sound reasonable for that one

[0:00:33] Trustee Gedye: item any objections to that plan well

[0:00:38] Voice 9: i just think we need to have a whenever it comes up we just

[0:00:42] Voice 9: need to discuss whether it's actually think something governance committee yes uh needs

[0:00:46] Voice 9: to address i don't i mean i for what you said it's impossible to tell so i guess it depends

[0:00:49] Voice 9: on the content of what uh yep

[0:00:51] Trustee Gedye: and um we haven't put it into the agenda there was some course

[0:00:57] Trustee Gedye: correspondence between herself and director mobs and she wants it to be with the governance

[0:01:04] Trustee Gedye: committee and once we get it and we have a chance to read it then we'll decide what to do with it

[0:01:09] Trustee Gedye: but that's a heads up so other than that is there anything that anybody else wants to add as a new

[0:01:16] Trustee Gedye: item or change the agenda not seeing any hand raised then can i get approval of the agenda

[0:01:23] Trustee Gedye: Brenda, please. Kate Louise, Stamford, moving it. Anybody second? Bernardo, seconding? All in favor?

[0:01:34] Trustee Gedye: Okay, that's everybody, it looks like. Thank you. All right. Is there anybody here from the public?

[0:01:44] Trustee Gedye: There doesn't appear to be anyone. Staff

[0:01:47] Voice 14: members and the attendees.

[0:01:49] Trustee Gedye: All right. Thank you. And I take it there's no delegations? I haven't seen any correspondence?

[0:01:55] Trustee Gedye: correspondence? No. All right um so we'll we'll skip then down to the administrative coordination

[0:02:04] Trustee Gedye: there's two matters there the minutes from May the 31st and June the 24th I hope that everybody's

[0:02:10] Trustee Gedye: had a chance to read those and um I'm hoping that they can be adopted by consent. Are there

[0:02:18] Trustee Gedye: any changes or omissions that anybody wants to point out all

[0:02:21] Voice 13: right

[0:02:25] Trustee Gedye: then um can i get a i'll move

[0:02:29] Trustee Gedye: that they be adopted by consent can i get a seconder no we don't need that it's consent

[0:02:36] Voice 15: oh all

[0:02:38] Trustee Gedye: right um then there are no resolutions without meeting as far as i can tell

[0:02:47] Trustee Gedye: and um the follow-up action list has been posted there was one correction to that that i spoke to

[0:02:56] Trustee Gedye: david marler about um with respect to director of legislative services number one that is uh

[0:03:03] Trustee Gedye: that has not been completed and we keep putting that off as well so that'll be um in progress

[0:03:12] Trustee Gedye: progress. Anything else? All right. So not saying

[0:03:21] Voice 2: if I may,

[0:03:22] Trustee Gedye: sorry, if

[0:03:25] Voice 2: I may provide some comments

[0:03:27] Voice 2: there.

[0:03:27] Voice 13: Sure. I'm not seeing hands

[0:03:30] Voice 2: raised. Oh,

[0:03:33] Trustee Gedye: I do have

[0:03:33] Voice 2: my electronic hands raised. I can raise

[0:03:35] Voice 2: my physical hand, wave it around if that's easier for

[0:03:37] Trustee Gedye: you. Okay, I'm not. Go ahead. I'll figure out

[0:03:41] Trustee Gedye: my

[0:03:42] Voice 2: view. Thanks, Chair. I just wanted to point out for the committee, there's two new items that

[0:03:48] Voice 2: have been added to the governance committee follow-up action list um on page 15 item number

[0:03:52] Voice 2: six and item number seven those two items are landing here um from the financial planning

[0:03:58] Voice 2: committee follow-up action list they relate to the review of trustee remuneration policy

[0:04:03] Voice 2: so there is an agenda item uh coming up later today we'll let you know exactly what's happened

[0:04:07] Voice 2: there but um ultimately that works coming over to governance committee and so there's two new items

[0:04:10] Voice 2: on a follow-up action list related to that work okay

[0:04:13] Voice 13: thank you no great

[0:04:24] Trustee Gedye: i've just adjusted my

[0:04:25] Trustee Gedye: screen so i hopefully will see hands raised um so that gets us to the business work program items

[0:04:32] Trustee Gedye: and 7.1 is the provincial review of the islands trust and um i believe the direction and certainly

[0:04:42] Trustee Gedye: the indication oh trustee middleton's with us hi good everybody's here um so i'm i'm under the

[0:04:52] Trustee Gedye: assumption that that is going to be basically the only thing on our agenda that we're going to work

[0:04:57] Trustee Gedye: on today has anybody got anything pressing that needs to um be to change that assumption all right

[0:05:09] Trustee Gedye: So then what's attached to the agenda is this briefing note.

[0:05:18] Trustee Gedye: And so this is from prepared by the Director of Legislative Services and the interim CAO.

[0:05:29] Trustee Gedye: So thank you, David and Julia.

[0:05:32] Trustee Gedye: We also have later in the agenda the RFD from June of 2022.

[0:05:43] Trustee Gedye: And that was the background information in particular that was the basis of the original letter to the minister.

[0:05:55] Trustee Gedye: So working from there, we have the six general items that were included in that letter, A to F.

[0:06:05] Trustee Gedye: So there's, on the screen that Laurie has shared with us, is there anything that this committee wants to add to that list?

[0:06:23] Trustee Gedye: Okay, I don't see any hands raised.

[0:06:25] Trustee Gedye: At the last meeting, Trustee Harris brought up the representation by population, and he's off screen right now, but I'm sure that he's still interested in that.

[0:06:36] Trustee Gedye: and I would suggest that that comes in with either governance structure or the optimum

[0:06:43] Trustee Gedye: governance model, A or C.

[0:06:48] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:06:53] Voice 9: Thank you. Yeah, I personally have a

[0:06:59] Voice 9: strong interest in the, frankly, resolving the weirdness of trust counsel

[0:07:05] Voice 9: Council uh with respect to the representation by population issue uh but I agree with you uh Judy

[0:07:12] Voice 9: that um I I think that's that's a component of the overall governance model and so it can be

[0:07:21] Voice 9: subsumed under that and as I in my late note with my thoughts on this thing um I think uh it's like

[0:07:33] Voice 9: Like for all of these items here, you know, we need to have reasons in the letter.

[0:07:37] Voice 9: And I think the Democrat, the anomaly of the nature of the representation we have in the Trust Council is something that we provide as a reason for needing a review of the governance model overall.

[0:07:51] Voice 9: But the point about representation by population issue, it's not the only thing, you know.

[0:07:59] Trustee Gedye: Can we save that discussion until we get to that point?

[0:08:04] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:08:05] Voice 9: To follow

[0:08:05] Voice 9: up on your first question before, though, I have nothing to add to that list of six.

[0:08:10] Voice 9: I think it's comprehensive.

[0:08:12] Voice 9: I do wonder whether or not A and C are duplicative of each other and whether or not we actually just need to have five.

[0:08:20] Voice 9: But I'll leave it at that for now.

[0:08:23] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Peterson.

[0:08:25] Voice 7: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[0:08:27] Voice 7: just in a general sense I think all of these are relevant I think it's a good idea to from

[0:08:37] Voice 7: my perspective to leave the list alone and if we want to elaborate to do that as in a separate

[0:08:47] Voice 7: paragraph or what-have-you my sense is that if the province takes this up to do a half decent

[0:08:56] Voice 7: job of any of these requests, there's going to have to be some consultative process by the

[0:09:03] Voice 7: province to sort of drill into all of these. So I'm not attached to getting super prescriptive

[0:09:13] Voice 7: about precisely what we're demanding the province do on any of these things, but to really get them

[0:09:20] Voice 7: to agree to delve into the work anyway that's that's my point of view

[0:09:26] Trustee Gedye: so um laura i see your

[0:09:29] Trustee Gedye: hand up but i'm going to um try to rein us a little bit um we've got these six areas and we

[0:09:37] Trustee Gedye: can i think if we're not writing the letter um it would be the most helpful to whoever is going

[0:09:44] Trustee Gedye: going to write the letter whether that's executive or staff or um you know and we review it um what

[0:09:51] Trustee Gedye: i if i was thinking that what would be most helpful for me if i was going to write the letter

[0:09:55] Trustee Gedye: is to have some brainstorming go from this group in terms of um expanding on and you know without

[0:10:03] Trustee Gedye: it being a full page um if we keep it to letter size but we give whoever's the letter writer some

[0:10:10] Trustee Gedye: some point forms in terms of ideas and and suggestions of and expand on what we mean what

[0:10:17] Trustee Gedye: the problem one of the problems might have been that the minister's got a shopping list here and

[0:10:22] Trustee Gedye: he doesn't know what we're talking about or we need to expand on it and be more precise so um

[0:10:28] Trustee Gedye: with that in mind if we've got three hours and we've got six items and we're going to take some

[0:10:34] Trustee Gedye: sort of a break in the middle. That's roughly half an hour for each. So, does that sound like

[0:10:43] Trustee Gedye: a reasonable way of going at this, Trustee Stamford?

[0:10:50] Trustee Stamford: Oh, okay. Yes, I think the other

[0:10:54] Trustee Stamford: thing that we need to keep in consideration when we're going through this is why it's important.

[0:11:00] Trustee Stamford: Like, what is it that the Islands Trust offers British Columbia in these five or six items?

[0:11:10] Trustee Stamford: Why is it important that the government review this and keep that in mind when we're going through it?

[0:11:16] Trustee Stamford: It's not just about our issues as islanders.

[0:11:22] Trustee Stamford: It's keeping that bigger perspective in mind all the time.

[0:11:28] Trustee Gedye: Thanks.

[0:11:28] Trustee Gedye: Thanks. Now, Trustee Patrick, I had your hand was up before and I had interrupted you.

[0:11:34] Trustee Gedye: So do you remember what it was you wanted?

[0:11:38] Trustee Patrick: Well, I think I think we're I think generally your suggestion of let's talk about these these points, each of them individually.

[0:11:47] Trustee Patrick: I don't know if we have to focus on saying we're writing a letter. I'm thinking more of the RFD that goes to trust counsel.

[0:11:54] Trustee Patrick: And I think, you know, these points could be reiterated in the RFD. And I think it's beholden on us as we have these conversations to think about, you know, we don't need to work our way into knots. I think if we find that we're disagreeing or split over an item, just park that one. Let's move on and find the ones that we all agree on.

[0:12:17] Trustee Patrick: Because I think, you know, the words that we heard from Adam when he spoke to us was pretty clear that, you know, the province asked for our input. What do we think about this motion? So I don't think we should, you know, put ourselves in a position where we're demonstrating that we can't figure things out. So let's just find the points that we all readily agree on and move on.

[0:12:41] Voice 14: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:12:42] Voice 14: to yeah

[0:12:44] Voice 9: i tend to agree with um where trustee patrick is uh coming from we don't um have to

[0:12:50] Voice 9: belabor i think the reasons for each of these items i think we need to be pithy and to the

[0:12:56] Voice 9: point and we do have to be mindful of uh that the paramount thing is we do need to reach consensus

[0:13:04] Voice 9: we actually have something that we can communicate uh there is a strong you know virtually unanimous

[0:13:13] Voice 9: view that we need to do this we need to get this review happening so that's the key thing once the

[0:13:18] Voice 9: review happens that opens the door to the debate amongst ourselves and as trustee peterson pointed

[0:13:25] Voice 9: out together with the province it's going to have to do the consultative process that will be a

[0:13:29] Voice 9: great opportunity for all of this stuff to bubble up in greater detail having said that i i don't

[0:13:36] Voice 9: think we should simply devote ourselves to simply getting into the nuts and bolts of it right away

[0:13:41] Voice 9: and i'm going to riff off of something that trustee patrick had mentioned which is

[0:13:45] Voice 9: um she's talking about the rfd that goes to trust council and i think we need to spend some time

[0:13:52] Voice 9: this morning being fairly you know talking about strategic issues how do we approach this

[0:13:58] Voice 9: i i still think we should definitely drill into this the the substance of those six items

[0:14:03] Voice 9: But I think we need to figure out how we're going to approach this with Trust Council, what kind of resolution we do, you know, just the mechanics of what we want to bring forward.

[0:14:19] Voice 9: So I'd like to have that discussion if we can, before we get into the nuts and bolts of, you know, the reasons for the review. Thanks.

[0:14:28] Voice 13: Trustee Middleton?

[0:14:29] Voice 13: Thank

[0:14:32] Trustee Middleton: you, Chair. This is a question of Trustee Patrick, if you'd be so kind as to allow it, Chair.

[0:14:41] Trustee Middleton: There was a document that accompanied the letter, or it might have been the RFD package itself from last term.

[0:14:48] Trustee Middleton: But, Trustee Patrick, you always lamented that that key piece of information was not provided or was not adequately sort of absorbed in the letter.

[0:14:58] Trustee Middleton: So I just want to check with you, is that document, which explains the rationale in the background and elaborates more fully in the request, is that the one attached to our agenda package that's headed Request for Decision, which was authored originally by Colborne and Brent, or is there another document that you think is useful?

[0:15:19] Trustee Patrick: Yes, it is.

[0:15:19] Trustee Patrick: It was the RFD, and that's the original one that's in our package.

[0:15:23] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[0:15:24] Trustee Middleton: And so I would just finally add that I think if we can align, I've gone back and forth

[0:15:30] Trustee Middleton: on this because I didn't want us to appear like we'd not put the effort into it. But I think if

[0:15:35] Trustee Middleton: our request can be as closely aligned with the original request as possible, it adds more impact

[0:15:40] Trustee Middleton: and weight because we're basically saying over two terms, more or less the same thing. I think

[0:15:45] Trustee Middleton: it adds more impact and force to the argument thank you all

[0:15:53] Trustee Gedye: right so um has everybody had a

[0:15:57] Trustee Gedye: chance to that's a really nice segue into that um request or decision from june of 22

[0:16:05] Trustee Gedye: for may of 22 for the meeting of june of 22 has everybody had a chance to read that in particular

[0:16:10] Trustee Gedye: the second page the background shall we start the discussion there is there anything there that um

[0:16:20] Trustee Gedye: um we would want to add or change

[0:16:40] Trustee Gedye: christy middleton i

[0:16:43] Trustee Middleton: think um it's it's not quite an addition but we know more about this topic now

[0:16:48] Trustee Middleton: and we know more about our limitations in this area and i would say that's as we've done the

[0:16:53] Trustee Middleton: work begun the work of reconciliation we realize how much uh bound and um uh disenabled shall i say

[0:17:04] Trustee Middleton: our legislation makes us in regard to moving forward in a vigorous and open manner towards

[0:17:13] Trustee Middleton: our goals of reconciliation. Our legislation doesn't permit much in the way of Aboriginal

[0:17:19] Trustee Middleton: involvement. It conscribes how we engage with other nations. It puts us square in the dilemma

[0:17:26] Trustee Middleton: of what responsibility do municipality, third order level of governments have versus our

[0:17:33] Trustee Middleton: our aspirations and so i think if we could just go into that in a bit more detail in the submission

[0:17:38] Trustee Middleton: about how we are limited in terms of what we want to achieve reconciliation wise and what the

[0:17:43] Trustee Middleton: province wants to achieve uh that would be good and that builds on the previous argument all right

[0:17:49] Trustee Gedye: so can you be more specific in terms of what you um think other local governments can do that we

[0:17:55] Trustee Gedye: can't

[0:17:56] Trustee Middleton: yeah like it might be best to probably not because that's somewhat supposition and what we

[0:18:01] Trustee Middleton: heard i think from uh uh from i'm not sure we can refer to that

[0:18:07] Trustee Middleton: yeah um so rather what i would

[0:18:10] Trustee Middleton: focus on i think is what the aspirations of the province are that we have embraced

[0:18:15] Trustee Middleton: through the united nations declaration andripa and um and the province's goals and our goals

[0:18:22] Trustee Middleton: that we've reiterated for reconciliation and point out how our legislation currently

[0:18:27] Trustee Middleton: really doesn't permit all that much in the way of a meaningful voice for First Nations in the way

[0:18:34] Trustee Middleton: we interact with the land base of the trust area, the traditional territories of the

[0:18:38] Trustee Middleton: affected nations. I don't know, I don't know to what level of detail it would be correct to go

[0:18:46] Trustee Middleton: into there or specific examples. I'm certainly open or, you know, just wanted to kick the

[0:18:52] Trustee Middleton: the discussion off. But I think if we highlight that there's a real gap between ours and the

[0:18:58] Trustee Middleton: province's aspirations in terms of reconciliatory activity and what we do or are committed to do

[0:19:05] Trustee Middleton: or how we're structured by the legislation, I think that would be a powerful comment or

[0:19:15] Trustee Middleton: or request of the province in terms of getting them motivated to jump on board this project of

[0:19:24] Trustee Middleton: review

[0:19:26] Voice 14: christy bernardo uh

[0:19:29] Voice 9: yes uh thank you i um i'm glad spritzy middleton brought this up because

[0:19:37] Voice 9: uh i think the um i i think it really is in terms of how we approach you know again back to the

[0:19:45] Voice 9: strategy point how we approach this i think um the letter i think does have to put some emphasis

[0:19:56] Voice 9: on the fact that we're going back to the well again after we got the blow off basically from

[0:20:02] Voice 9: the province now obviously we use different language but i mean they kind of brushed us off

[0:20:07] Voice 9: and in order i think we have to transmit the message that uh we're serious about this and

[0:20:14] Voice 9: And we have to confront the province with the fact that we asked before, you then said, you know, minister, the minister then says, yeah, well, you know, come back to us after the election.

[0:20:26] Voice 9: Well, we're coming back to you after the election.

[0:20:28] Voice 9: I think we have to say that, that we are being responsive.

[0:20:31] Voice 9: We've looked at it.

[0:20:32] Voice 9: We actually agree with what the last term had come up with.

[0:20:36] Voice 9: And those issues that were identified in the RF, that original RFD, haven't gone away.

[0:20:41] Voice 9: And so I think it might well, we should well consider the idea of appending the RFD in its entirety to the letter as an attachment to emphasize that.

[0:20:56] Voice 9: Because that RFD is pretty well written. It's forceful in a respectful way.

[0:21:01] Voice 9: And, you know, the letter can then elaborate on whatever things that we think that need to be elaborated that are touched on in the RFD.

[0:21:07] Voice 9: But I think attaching it, putting it in as an attachment, sends a forceful message, I think, to the province that they've been, you know, it's not directly saying we've been asleep at the switch, but that, no, this is for real.

[0:21:22] Voice 9: This is a persistent issue. These are persistent issues that we need help on.

[0:21:27] Voice 9: There's reasoning behind it. And, you know, we can sort of piggyback on it.

[0:21:32] Voice 9: and I think it can be quite helpful.

[0:21:33] Voice 9: And related to that, there's a passing remarks chair

[0:21:36] Voice 9: that you've made before about who writes this thing.

[0:21:41] Voice 9: I think we have to be very clear at the outset

[0:21:43] Voice 9: that this is a political letter.

[0:21:47] Voice 9: This isn't something neutral.

[0:21:48] Voice 9: This is trust council as a political body

[0:21:51] Voice 9: making a political claim to the province.

[0:21:56] Voice 9: I don't think it's appropriate to have staff do that.

[0:21:59] Voice 9: It's not fair to them.

[0:22:01] Voice 9: There's gonna be nuances and issues in there

[0:22:03] Voice 9: I think the trustees in some fashion or another are going to have to hash this out.

[0:22:07] Voice 9: It's going to have to be some body of trustees that writes this. Probably us.

[0:22:11] Voice 9: Trustee Peterson.

[0:22:14] Voice 7: Yeah, thank you.

[0:22:16] Voice 7: So with regards to reconciliation, I was just reflecting on the last paragraph on page 23 and into page 24, which is the letter that was actually sent last time.

[0:22:32] Voice 7: And I think there's some good language in there speaking around the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act.

[0:22:42] Voice 7: um what stands out for me as what's not in there um that we've certainly heard in in the context

[0:22:54] Voice 7: of the policy statement review is what we're aware of um from nations as as far as their

[0:23:03] Voice 7: their aspirations. I don't know that we need to go into where the limitations are around

[0:23:11] Voice 7: our ability to action some of their requests, particularly around co-governance. But I think

[0:23:21] Voice 7: that the dial of information that we have from nations has, I think we have more to

[0:23:29] Voice 7: to work with uh than we did at the time that that letter was sent so i just wanted to sort of

[0:23:36] Voice 7: amplify what i heard and uh and sort of reflect on on what was out last time i think a lot of it's

[0:23:42] Voice 7: good i think we could add more

[0:23:45] Trustee Gedye: all right to get back to um lee middleton's comment um the work

[0:23:54] Trustee Gedye: that we've done to date since the original rfd we're going to be writing a new rfd to this council

[0:23:59] Trustee Gedye: Council so uh what are the things that have happened since certainly the work of this committee

[0:24:10] Trustee Middleton: the trustee I

[0:24:12] Trustee Middleton: think this uh and this is stealing the trustee Bernardo's point I think we just need

[0:24:16] Trustee Middleton: to be explicit uh the the governance review that led to the birth of this committee uh and the

[0:24:24] Trustee Middleton: issues that the letter in the are that came about the RFP um are are separate they got conflated I

[0:24:30] Trustee Middleton: I think they were probably intentionally conflated because it was more helpful to look at the organization as fixing itself by referencing the governance review than it was to say, oh, yeah, you're right.

[0:24:44] Trustee Middleton: You really you have a good basis to request a review.

[0:24:49] Trustee Middleton: So I think we just need to be explicit in that letter that we've done implementation work on the governance review.

[0:24:54] Trustee Middleton: It's a matter that is focused internally and is not, while it is improving, could improve or the hope is it improves the internal operation, it in no way addresses the meaningful and salient points that were touched upon in the letter because the minister's response sort of tries to throw the ministry themselves that lifeline saying, let us know how you're making out with your governance review because that sounds like you might be fixing your own problems.

[0:25:23] Trustee Middleton: So we just need to be clear about the work we've done and how it's not the same as what has been or what was requested in the original letter.

[0:25:34] Trustee Gedye: The reply from the minister was also, you've got a whole lot more that you're not taking advantage of.

[0:25:39] Trustee Gedye: And I'm still not clear what that means.

[0:25:44] Trustee Gedye: So either we get help from the ministry in terms of spelling that out and helping us to understand what it is they're referring to,

[0:25:50] Trustee Gedye: Or we take a deeper dive in terms of, I know at one point in our, I think our first meeting, Trustee Middleton, you talked about how the recommendation from one of the consultants was, you know, whether staff are members of the PSA and whether or not that gives us some wiggle room.

[0:26:16] Trustee Gedye: And we've had a response from the staff on that issue.

[0:26:21] Trustee Gedye: But there's other things that we may need to try and clarify in terms of what the ministry thinks we should be doing more of.

[0:26:30] Trustee Gedye: Three hands up.

[0:26:31] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Patrick.

[0:26:34] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I think, again, an important paragraph from the original request for decision on page 21 didn't make it to the letter.

[0:26:43] Trustee Patrick: and it said right there,

[0:26:44] Trustee Patrick: this trust council like its predecessors has taken steps.

[0:26:47] Trustee Patrick: It conducted a governance review in 2021

[0:26:49] Trustee Patrick: that is focused on the internal governance

[0:26:51] Trustee Patrick: and operations of the trust.

[0:26:53] Trustee Patrick: This request for decision does not replace

[0:26:55] Trustee Patrick: nor ignore the findings of this recent review.

[0:26:58] Trustee Patrick: This RFD expects trust council to continue

[0:27:00] Trustee Patrick: to address the findings of the report

[0:27:02] Trustee Patrick: to improve its governance and operations

[0:27:04] Trustee Patrick: as it has for multiple terms.

[0:27:06] Trustee Patrick: So I think that we can either add

[0:27:09] Trustee Patrick: and that committee is still working away.

[0:27:14] Trustee Patrick: right trustee

[0:27:19] Trustee Gedye: peterson thank

[0:27:22] Voice 7: you chair yeah i mean in my mind it's pretty clear that the um

[0:27:28] Voice 7: the steps that the trust council has taken including this committee

[0:27:33] Voice 7: and can take are different than the some of the things that the province has the authority to do

[0:27:41] Voice 7: and we cannot do without the authority of the province so um vague as uh minister collins

[0:27:49] Voice 7: letter was, I think that there's a line to be drawn between what we can do internally

[0:27:58] Voice 7: and what we cannot, certainly in terms of the Indigenous requests for co-governance

[0:28:10] Voice 7: is, I think, a clear example.

[0:28:12] Voice 7: There's other examples of jurisdictional, I mean, things we'd love to do perhaps,

[0:28:19] Voice 7: Perhaps, but we simply don't have it's for the province to to decide whether they're going to devolve certain powers to to to the island's trust.

[0:28:30] Voice 7: We could get we could spend a lot of time getting specific on what those might be.

[0:28:34] Voice 7: I don't think that's the point of today, but there's clearly a difference between what we can do internally and what only the province can do.

[0:28:44] Voice 7: So

[0:28:47] Trustee Gedye: when I hear that, I'm thinking, you know, we've reassigned tasks for the head table in terms of who keeps the speakers list and who does different things and having Director Marler sit beside the chair so that we run a more efficient meeting.

[0:29:06] Trustee Gedye: meeting um we've done we've started with the committees of the whole we've um started looking

[0:29:13] Trustee Gedye: at meeting process in terms of having more by consent and those all are clearly internal things

[0:29:19] Trustee Gedye: that have followed from the governance review in many ways and that that is an example of why

[0:29:26] Trustee Gedye: this is interior internal and there's other things more far more important that are external and that

[0:29:31] Trustee Gedye: or the purview of the province so we can outline the things that we've done like that that help us

[0:29:37] Trustee Gedye: internally um is that the kind of distinction you're thinking of trustee peterson well yeah

[0:29:47] Voice 7: i mean there's there's there's there are things that we can do and there's things

[0:29:53] Voice 7: yeah absolutely yeah

[0:29:56] Trustee Gedye: trustee stamford

[0:29:57] Trustee Stamford: can i defer to

[0:30:00] Trustee Stamford: um um director mobs sure director

[0:30:05] Trustee Gedye: mobs thanks

[0:30:07] Voice 2: thanks chelsea sanford uh chair getty um i just

[0:30:10] Voice 2: wanted to support a little bit what chelsea peterson is saying there from a from a staff

[0:30:15] Voice 2: perspective what we see in the response from the minister is really a desire to understand

[0:30:21] Voice 2: what um council has already tried to do to solve their own problems so if there's a problem that's

[0:30:28] Voice 2: identified, have we done all that we can to try and move the dial in that arena before requesting

[0:30:35] Voice 2: that the province invest their own

[0:30:37] Voice 2: staff time and resources to address that? I think there is

[0:30:40] Voice 2: a desire for the province to understand what those things are, not for us necessarily to just

[0:30:45] Voice 2: state, you know, we don't think we can change this, but actually provide examples of

[0:30:51] Voice 2: why this particular issue we're bringing up has been a hindrance. Here's an example of how it's

[0:30:56] Voice 2: hindered us. Here's what we've done to try and solve it. We still can't get where we want to

[0:30:59] Voice 2: get. We need the province to step in. I think getting into more detail in the next request

[0:31:06] Voice 2: of the province will result in greater traction and possibly more movement with this thing going

[0:31:13] Voice 2: forward. And just quickly in relation to how the governance committee plays here, because that was

[0:31:20] Voice 2: as something that the previous minister's letter did mention,

[0:31:24] Voice 2: I do think it's prudent in the next draft of the letter

[0:31:27] Voice 2: to indicate how the governance review either is or is not related

[0:31:32] Voice 2: to the new issues that are going to be put in the next draft of the letter

[0:31:36] Voice 2: to simply make the assumption, oh, it's not related,

[0:31:39] Voice 2: and we're just going to say that in one sentence, may not land.

[0:31:42] Voice 2: I do think, you know, we've looked at some historical advocacy effort

[0:31:46] Voice 2: towards the province, and where we've had the most success

[0:31:48] Voice 2: is where we provide more detail and also in many instances actually provide suggestions for ways

[0:31:53] Voice 2: forward so what do we think will actually solve the problem instead of stating this is a problem

[0:31:58] Voice 2: please look at it do we have any thoughts on what would solve that problem um that tends to be where

[0:32:03] Voice 2: we get the most uh traction with our provincial advocacy just wanted to share those thoughts to

[0:32:08] Voice 2: support the discussion great

[0:32:10] Voice 13: thank you trustee stanford yeah

[0:32:13] Trustee Stamford: i think that was several of the

[0:32:15] Trustee Stamford: items that i was going to speak to um is how we approach this um i'm a little concerned about

[0:32:22] Trustee Stamford: getting too much into the detail of who is doing what at a council meeting but apart from the

[0:32:29] Trustee Stamford: review we've got our operational changes and um the planning efficiency project um i've forgotten

[0:32:38] Trustee Stamford: out in the name that we call it at the island's trust that's an operational um um change that's

[0:32:47] Trustee Stamford: affected our ability to move forward um so we can add those kind of items in that we're moving

[0:32:53] Trustee Stamford: we're continuing to evolve as an organization um and uh yeah focus on really the external parts

[0:33:03] Trustee Stamford: and what specifically is the issue and how potentially it could be advanced.

[0:33:11] Trustee Stamford: But I don't want to be solving the problem for them

[0:33:14] Trustee Stamford: because I don't think we have the tools or the skills to do that.

[0:33:19] Trustee Stamford: In terms of actual advice, this is where we should go.

[0:33:23] Trustee Stamford: It does all circle back to rights and title and where the province is looking at that

[0:33:31] Trustee Stamford: and how they're engaging or not engaging local governments

[0:33:35] Trustee Stamford: and giving them the tools to deal with this.

[0:33:40] Trustee Stamford: And I think the Islands Trust is a very specific example

[0:33:45] Trustee Stamford: of how difficult it can be,

[0:33:49] Trustee Stamford: especially without the appropriate support

[0:33:51] Trustee Stamford: to make those changes.

[0:33:53] Trustee Stamford: So I guess the other question I had is making sure,

[0:33:56] Trustee Stamford: right now we're just kind of bouncing around

[0:33:59] Trustee Stamford: in terms of giving advice in what can go in the letter i'm just hoping that somebody is is taking

[0:34:07] Trustee Stamford: down these salient points um because if staff are not writing this letter then somebody needs to

[0:34:14] Trustee Stamford: have all these points down one

[0:34:18] Trustee Gedye: of the things that i thought of in building on that was whether or

[0:34:23] Trustee Gedye: not it's reasonable um for the trust to ask for some specific guidance from the ministry they must

[0:34:31] Trustee Gedye: have people that um understand some of these kinds of of um structural issues and whether or not

[0:34:38] Trustee Gedye: there's somebody that could be talking to us in terms of what all the options are and what the

[0:34:43] Trustee Gedye: different combinations are and what what's been tried in other places um you know how to make

[0:34:48] Trustee Gedye: federations work better um you know when things change from the original um populations or

[0:34:55] Trustee Gedye: whatever um and whether or not that's too close a relationship or if that's something that you know

[0:35:02] Trustee Gedye: in that the matrix we've got the representation of the province on the trust committee maybe that's

[0:35:09] Trustee Gedye: a consultant from the the ministry to help us think of options um i don't know that's i don't

[0:35:17] Trustee Gedye: I've only just barely thought of that. I have absolutely no idea what the implications would

[0:35:21] Trustee Gedye: be. Trustee Middleton?

[0:35:26] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chagat. But just two quick points. One, just a clarification on

[0:35:32] Trustee Middleton: the membership of Islands Trust or Islands Trust staff being part of the public service agency.

[0:35:39] Trustee Middleton: And I think we had a disagreement, the previous CEO and I, on what was meant in the governance

[0:35:45] Trustee Middleton: this report. He interpreted that the consultants were saying that all staff in the Honest Trust

[0:35:51] Trustee Middleton: should be independent of the PSA. I don't think they were. In fact, I know what they were talking

[0:35:57] Trustee Middleton: about was the council can have a direct employee besides the CAO who reports to council. And that

[0:36:04] Trustee Middleton: was the secretariat slash in-house council position, just that that person is not hired

[0:36:10] Trustee Middleton: through the PSA, but actually works in a sort of political organizational capacity for the

[0:36:15] Trustee Middleton: for the council. So just one point in case we do get into that in responding to the minister,

[0:36:21] Trustee Middleton: because that would be a very big rabbit hole if we didn't, you know, if we left it unaddressed.

[0:36:27] Trustee Middleton: And then secondly, I think the letter, we have a tendency in writing these letters

[0:36:33] Trustee Middleton: at the trust to think that it has to encompass our whole approach and way forward in this one

[0:36:41] Trustee Middleton: document. I think if we look at this letter as the starting point, it doesn't have to address

[0:36:46] Trustee Middleton: every concern or answer every question. It's the beginning of a communications effort,

[0:36:53] Trustee Middleton: a motivational effort, shall we say, to the ministry. It's not the end result. And actually

[0:36:58] Trustee Middleton: coming back to the governance report, the governance report was asked to look at the

[0:37:05] Trustee Middleton: a division between what was then a much stronger, more strongly identified division in the

[0:37:11] Trustee Middleton: organization, that between planning and advocacy. And they basically said, you're not really doing

[0:37:17] Trustee Middleton: advocacy, you're writing letters. That may be construed as a component of advocacy, but in no

[0:37:23] Trustee Middleton: way is it something where you are looking to influence an outcome or influence a decision,

[0:37:29] Trustee Middleton: strategically work towards that goal uh look at what you're doing adjust your strategy if need be

[0:37:36] Trustee Middleton: and i think in this case the letter is the starting point of agreement amongst us it's not

[0:37:42] Trustee Middleton: the end product to the ministry there may be further communication to the ministry there'll

[0:37:46] Trustee Middleton: certainly hopefully be uh political meetings with the ministry and so i just caution that we don't

[0:37:51] Trustee Middleton: have to load everything we conceivably can think of for success with this ask into the letter

[0:37:58] Trustee Middleton: of the letters the starting point thank you

[0:38:03] Trustee Patrick: christy patrick yeah i think there were some

[0:38:07] Trustee Patrick: powerful things that adam had indicated to us when he spoke to trust council and and you look at you

[0:38:17] Trustee Patrick: know just over 50 years ago the province did strike a group that went out met through the islands

[0:38:23] Trustee Patrick: talked to everybody came back and from that recommended the islands trust act 35 years ago

[0:38:31] Trustee Patrick: they did a review again and went out and came back with significant recommendations and that

[0:38:40] Trustee Patrick: was the next change of the act and in the last 35 years there's been no touch of it and i think

[0:38:47] Trustee Patrick: adam was clear when he addressed us was of course none of this addressed any of the um you know

[0:38:54] Trustee Patrick: reconciliation work that needs to be done because 35 years ago you know we weren't thinking the way

[0:39:00] Trustee Patrick: we should and now know um you know so i we don't need to get ourselves into that knot because we

[0:39:06] Trustee Patrick: are we're we're missing a lot of the voice and it is basically we're just out of date and and to get

[0:39:14] Trustee Patrick: out to get up to date up up to date um updated uh will require a pretty significant process with the

[0:39:22] Trustee Patrick: province at the lead trustee

[0:39:28] Voice 12: bernardo uh

[0:39:32] Voice 9: thank you um i'm following up on what trustee stanford

[0:39:42] Voice 9: said a little while ago

[0:39:43] Voice 3: in

[0:39:45] Voice 9: the sense of um this is what she said but this is what i get out of it

[0:39:49] Voice 9: it's like as a committee i think we need to get ourselves organized here we've spent something

[0:39:55] Voice 9: something over like 40 minutes now, with doing some general brainstorming about the content of

[0:40:01] Voice 9: the letter with a little sprinkling of comments about strategy and stuff like that. Well, we could

[0:40:05] Voice 9: wander around doing this for three hours and get nothing done. I'm not saying that discussion isn't

[0:40:12] Voice 9: useful. We need to air out these ideas, but I'm not sure we're doing it the right way. We need a

[0:40:16] Voice 9: plan for what this committee is going to do and how it's going to do it. Trustee Patrick before

[0:40:23] Voice 9: talked about focusing on the rfd that should go to trust council in september and i think we have

[0:40:29] Voice 9: to be mindful of a few things which is it's really important that we get this timing right

[0:40:33] Voice 9: there's an election coming up we want to get like i said before this is a political act that we're

[0:40:39] Voice 9: doing here and we need to do everything we can to get the attention of the province uh and to get

[0:40:48] Voice 9: them to actually listen and respect where we're coming from and we've talked about different

[0:40:51] Voice 9: different methodologies different things that we might do to sort of improve that and that's all

[0:40:55] Voice 9: well and good but we need a sequence of events but we need a framework for how we do all those

[0:41:01] Voice 9: things we're talking about the interesting stuff now not the dull stuff about who does what when

[0:41:06] Voice 9: and i think we need to sort of create that structure for ourselves and i want to go back

[0:41:10] Voice 9: to what trustee patrick said before yes i do think we should be focusing on our on the rfd

[0:41:15] Voice 9: to trust council because we want something coming out of that september meeting uh at a minimum

[0:41:22] Voice 9: it should be some kind of resolution that we can bandy about frankly to point out to the province

[0:41:29] Voice 9: like look you know we're serious we agree with the trust council from last term you know and

[0:41:36] Voice 9: that's the starting point and it's like we need an official resolution that that backs up whatever

[0:41:41] Voice 9: letter gets produced and uh and possibly in september if we get our act together we might

[0:41:50] Voice 9: actually be able to put a letter on that rfd as well but i mean where we're at as a committee

[0:41:55] Voice 9: right now is that we we have not decided on our plan and i i would hope that we'd be able to steer

[0:42:00] Voice 9: this discussion in that direction in terms of the concrete steps that we think we should be doing

[0:42:05] Voice 9: and what the work is that we should be doing and how we assign it thank you do

[0:42:10] Trustee Gedye: you have an idea for

[0:42:11] Trustee Gedye: for what that concrete plan could or should be?

[0:42:16] Voice 9: Well, I'm glad you asked.

[0:42:18] Voice 9: Yes, I do.

[0:42:19] Voice 9: I think the RFD, as I just mentioned a second ago,

[0:42:23] Voice 9: I think we should be repeating the resolution from last time.

[0:42:29] Voice 9: And I think, you know, as I mentioned before,

[0:42:32] Voice 9: I think the resolution might include some bit about how, you know,

[0:42:36] Voice 9: we're directing that a letter be written

[0:42:39] Voice 9: and that it should include the attachment,

[0:42:41] Voice 9: As an attachment, the original RFD, because I think that's quite a powerful argument. It's a pity it wasn't included in its entirety last time. But I think we need to have an RFD that talks about, that basically reiterates and recapitulates the exact same resolution of last time in order to send that political message like, you guys aren't paying attention, you need to pay attention to this.

[0:43:04] Voice 9: I think the RFD probably should include some remark or some element about establishing a

[0:43:13] Voice 9: communication strategy for this. And I also think that in terms of a plan, and this is separate from

[0:43:21] Voice 9: what goes into the RFD, I think today we need to make a decision about who writes this letter.

[0:43:29] Voice 9: and I think it should be us just the discussion we've had already this is a complex piece of

[0:43:36] Voice 9: business uh you know and just the discussion we've had already today tells us that uh in order to do

[0:43:42] Voice 9: a competent job in this letter uh the author is going to have to be pretty familiar with all of

[0:43:47] Voice 9: these issues and the nuances and I think uh at a minimum well I think we should be probably

[0:43:56] Voice 9: striking a working group in this committee the draft something that

[0:44:00] Voice 9: brings it back to this committee and then this committee can hash it out I

[0:44:04] Voice 9: mean trying to draft things by by committee in an open meeting it's just

[0:44:08] Voice 9: will not work it's just too time-consuming and it's inefficient

[0:44:15] Voice 9: better

[0:44:16] Trustee Gedye: the just thing

[0:44:17] Voice 9: we do them better better this committee edits the product

[0:44:20] Voice 9: of some select or not select but a working group that we form from amongst

[0:44:24] Voice 9: ourselves. Trustee

[0:44:27] Trustee Gedye: Peterson, your hand was up? No? Okay. Anybody else? Trustee Middleton? Sorry.

[0:44:39] Trustee Gedye: I

[0:44:40] Trustee Middleton: think Trustee Patrick might have had her hand up before being a secretary

[0:44:43] Trustee Middleton: from her first, if you don't mind Chair.

[0:44:46] Trustee Patrick: Well, I think, just following up on what

[0:44:49] Trustee Patrick: Joe said, could we agree through, do we all agree that voting on the original motion is,

[0:44:57] Trustee Patrick: you know that that is what needs to occur in september are we all in agreement i think that

[0:45:06] Trustee Middleton: i

[0:45:06] Trustee Patrick: mean do we all think that you know we would recommend that trust council

[0:45:13] Trustee Patrick: vote on the same motion from june of 22 okay

[0:45:17] Trustee Gedye: so those six points yeah

[0:45:21] Trustee Patrick: that you know all right so

[0:45:22] Trustee Patrick: i'm saying is do we have strong agreement so at least we can say we've got good good agreement

[0:45:27] Trustee Patrick: we have a goal it's how do we now support that goal all

[0:45:33] Trustee Gedye: right hold that thought trustee middleton

[0:45:37] Trustee Middleton: yeah i think i think um um we we have been working towards a plan here but it's a good

[0:45:44] Trustee Middleton: point to make sure we all do agree i think what would be great is in september the original rfd

[0:45:51] Trustee Middleton: in what i'm hearing in some way can just simply be modified for presentation to the to trust council

[0:45:56] Trustee Middleton: Council. But what would be even better is if we could have a draft letter for Council

[0:46:03] Trustee Middleton: to endorse. I mean, I think we've done the background work. I don't think, well, to

[0:46:07] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Bernardo's point, the letter obviously needs to be written. But I guess my point

[0:46:12] Trustee Middleton: is the rationale, the impetus and the desire is all there. We need to simply draft it and

[0:46:18] Trustee Middleton: then we can, I mean, obviously we want to present the draft letter in a way that it

[0:46:25] Trustee Middleton: achieve success that we don't just uh throw it into a group editing session which probably won't

[0:46:30] Trustee Middleton: be the most productive but uh but you know could we have a version of a letter or could we have at

[0:46:36] Trustee Middleton: least the salient points the letter would would uh would cover and you could argue well that's in

[0:46:41] Trustee Middleton: the rfd um so yeah i'm open to discussion there

[0:46:46] Trustee Gedye: we've circled back to um what i had hoped in

[0:46:50] Trustee Gedye: terms of having some sort of a you know speakers list or some sort of a note bullet points in terms

[0:46:57] Trustee Gedye: of all the different things that should be in the letter so if we go back to the original

[0:47:05] Trustee Gedye: I guess the RFD and the trust council resolution 072 with those six objectives let's quickly go

[0:47:15] Trustee Gedye: go through that and make sure that we do agree on those six points. So the first one was an

[0:47:21] Trustee Gedye: assessment of the optimum governance model to preserve and protect the trust area pursuant

[0:47:27] Trustee Gedye: to the province vision for the future of the trust area. I understand, I think, what the

[0:47:35] Trustee Gedye: intention was, but I think that that's a very muddy sentence. And without getting into wordsmithing,

[0:47:42] Trustee Gedye: um what do we think the uh if we agree to that point what are we agreeing on

[0:47:49] Trustee Gedye: what is the objective and the purpose of that sentence any ideas christy patrick

[0:48:06] Trustee Patrick: i i think the intent was you know the the the object of the act belongs to the province that

[0:48:14] Trustee Patrick: was item b that the province needs to say is this still what we want you to do is this the purpose

[0:48:21] Trustee Patrick: and and then it's if this is our purpose still or to clarify what that purpose is you know how do

[0:48:28] Trustee Patrick: we achieve it what is you know what is this what is the structure it sort of leaves it pretty wide

[0:48:34] Trustee Patrick: open and i also want to point out that the the opening statement to this said that uh we were

[0:48:43] Trustee Patrick: We're asking for a review of the act and that the scope of the review include these items, but not be limited to it.

[0:48:54] Trustee Patrick: So we weren't trying to design the entire scope by these six items.

[0:48:58] Trustee Patrick: So they are broad.

[0:49:05] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo?

[0:49:08] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:49:09] Voice 9: I mean, with respect, I'm not sure this is the approach we should be taking, like sort of picking them off one by one and sort of having big thoughts about what these things mean.

[0:49:21] Voice 9: The RFD explains it.

[0:49:25] Voice 9: Every one of these items is not something that exists in isolation.

[0:49:30] Voice 9: They're all facets of the same problem.

[0:49:32] Voice 9: They're all facets of this larger picture that we need to resolve.

[0:49:35] Voice 9: And it's discussed quite competently in the RFD.

[0:49:38] Voice 9: So I don't think we need to spend a tremendous amount of time going through them one by one.

[0:49:44] Voice 9: I think what I would suggest that we need to do is ask ourselves, do these six items taken together more or less capture the problem that needs to be addressed?

[0:50:02] Voice 9: And I think they do.

[0:50:03] Voice 9: and it's a problem of the fittedness of what the islands trust is today whether it fits

[0:50:12] Voice 9: the purpose of the legislation and whether it's functional given current you know the current

[0:50:18] Voice 9: conditions and i think that's a problem we're always wrestling with uh we all know there's

[0:50:24] Voice 9: divisions that despite our best efforts we can't get past the fact that there's divisions in the

[0:50:28] Voice 9: community amongst trustees about what the islands trust act the object of it even means

[0:50:35] Voice 9: So all of these issues, they're all different aspects of the same thing, which is we're an organization that really is confused about its structure, about its purpose, and we need some clarity about it.

[0:50:50] Voice 9: So I don't think we have to belabor each and every one, like an analytical exercise of going each one of these individually.

[0:50:55] Voice 9: I don't think it's going to be that helpful.

[0:50:57] Voice 9: We know what the big picture is, that RFD provides a sufficient explanation.

[0:51:00] Voice 9: nation when i didn't hear anybody objecting to the idea of of um of bringing this forward in an rfd

[0:51:10] Voice 9: and i i think maybe if if anybody objects i think they should speak up and if they don't i think we

[0:51:15] Voice 9: should take it as given this is going to go into the rfd because i think it does the job

[0:51:21] Trustee Gedye: christy harris thanks

[0:51:26] Voice 10: chargetti um i'm in agreement um um chargetti with what

[0:51:32] Voice 10: on what you said about um a and and i'm also in agreement with trustee bernardo about we're not

[0:51:38] Voice 10: getting into uh you know getting too complicated with this um so what i'm in agreement with you

[0:51:45] Voice 10: about chair getty is that yes i feel that a is this kind of a bit of a broad deal there and i

[0:51:51] Voice 10: almost see that this is what i see and i'm not saying this you know this is my observation a

[0:51:57] Voice 10: A could be simply removed from there.

[0:52:00] Voice 10: And B, I would say, sorry, that A would be removed,

[0:52:10] Voice 10: replace A with D and C would become the second one.

[0:52:20] Voice 10: And that's very clear.

[0:52:22] Voice 10: So A being the alignment of decision-making processes

[0:52:25] Voice 10: and structures with the declaration of the rights

[0:52:27] Voice 10: it's going to with DRIPA and B being the governance structure of the organization.

[0:52:31] Voice 10: It's very, very clear. And that's what I see. And that's what I would suggest. Thanks.

[0:52:38] Trustee Gedye: Well, someone said earlier, too, that the A and C are possibly repetitive.

[0:52:45] Trustee Gedye: But

[0:52:45] Voice 10: yes, they did. I believe it was Trustee Murado. So I'm in agreement with both of you on

[0:52:50] Voice 10: your comments. I just maybe tried to focus it a bit on what I see. Thanks.

[0:52:55] Voice 10: Thanks.

[0:52:55] Voice 10: Trustee Stamford?

[0:53:02] Trustee Stamford: I recognize the reasoning behind pulling A out, but I do think it's distinct from C.

[0:53:09] Trustee Stamford: And I would like to keep these six the way they're worded.

[0:53:16] Trustee Stamford: The reason is it's putting the onus back on the province a little bit to help overview that vision.

[0:53:27] Trustee Stamford: vision um the the vision um governance model is different from our actual structure so if the

[0:53:37] Trustee Stamford: vision is of the southern gulf islands and how sound to preserve and protect that needs to be

[0:53:44] Trustee Stamford: assessed um and i am considered thinking in terms of specifically some of the areas that are more

[0:53:51] Trustee Stamford: built up than others you know that kind of bigger question but then c speaks to the actual structure

[0:53:59] Trustee Stamford: so that's where i'm seeing the difference and the distinction is important trustee harris

[0:54:08] Voice 10: yes thank

[0:54:09] Voice 10: you um yes so the what i see maybe i should have carried on further with what i was saying um

[0:54:16] Voice 10: uh so with the idea of removing a and um and putting them in the other order as i suggested

[0:54:24] Voice 10: The more specific type of things would be in the letter to the province.

[0:54:31] Voice 10: This is for this RFD, you know, a flashpoint letter that's concise, easy to understand

[0:54:38] Voice 10: and firm, whereas the A and some of the, you know, more finer points would be put into

[0:54:46] Voice 10: the letter that we are going to draft, is what I would see there.

[0:54:50] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:54:50] Voice 10: trustee

[0:54:52] Voice 13: peterson um

[0:54:55] Voice 7: i tend to agree there is a difference between structure governance structure

[0:55:01] Voice 7: and governance model um and more than that i think there is a powerful message uh to deliver

[0:55:11] Voice 7: the same points as the previous trust council um unedited uh unchanged these are still

[0:55:23] Voice 7: relevant. And I think there's a powerful message in not spending much time redoing this and saying

[0:55:33] Voice 7: to the province, this is what the last trust council felt, and this is what this trust council

[0:55:40] Voice 7: also believes is relevant.

[0:55:45] Trustee Gedye: And that was part of the cover letter, or the preamble to the

[0:55:49] Trustee Gedye: background, that that council had worked for X number of years together and had come up with

[0:55:54] Trustee Gedye: this agreement and um they we could pick up on that and say that that's what the last council

[0:56:01] Trustee Gedye: did after their three or four years and that we've done a year into it and we're very strongly of the

[0:56:06] Trustee Gedye: opinion that that still holds and it's important blah blah blah trustee bernardo uh

[0:56:16] Voice 9: yes thank you

[0:56:17] Voice 9: um i've got a lot of sympathy with where trustee harris was coming from because if i was starting

[0:56:22] Voice 9: starting from scratch, I would certainly, that shopping list of items, I think it does cover

[0:56:29] Voice 9: the territory, but I would, you know, there is this duplicate of aspect to it. There is some

[0:56:35] Voice 9: kind of woodmarkiness there. Sure, in a perfect world, I think I would prefer to draft it slightly

[0:56:40] Voice 9: differently, but I'm prepared to give up the desire for perfection in this case for a couple

[0:56:47] Voice 9: of reasons. One, and I want to agree wholeheartedly with what Trustee Peterson is saying, is that it's

[0:56:52] Voice 9: just that much more forceful when we send the message to the province to say look

[0:56:57] Voice 9: you didn't listen to us last time we're saying the same exactly the same thing nothing's changed

[0:57:02] Voice 9: this is the problem you change it and then you introduce kind of nuances in there in terms like

[0:57:09] Voice 9: it doesn't exactly muddy the message but it it sends it out a bit

[0:57:13] Voice 9: so it's much more forceful to simply repeat what we said last time that's one aspect of

[0:57:17] Voice 9: it related to it is i think let's not forget the kind of discussion we're having here

[0:57:23] Voice 9: We're going to have some version of it at Trust Council as well.

[0:57:26] Voice 9: And it's simply that much more persuasive and easier for Trust Council to get its arms around the whole issue.

[0:57:33] Voice 9: If we say, look, this is the movie last time.

[0:57:36] Voice 9: We're living it again.

[0:57:38] Voice 9: Right?

[0:57:38] Voice 9: And this is the tactic.

[0:57:40] Voice 9: This is what we're going to do is we're going to send the same message as last time.

[0:57:43] Voice 9: And the fact that the previous term, that there was a trust council in the previous term had gone through the agony of debating and working it all out, passing this resolution, I think that will be some comfort to quite a few trustees that this is a reasonable thing to do.

[0:58:01] Voice 9: And it'll just simply be an easier thing for a trust council to work through and reach a conclusion, as opposed to sending it off to reinvent the wheel.

[0:58:10] Voice 9: if we start reinventing the wheel here we're going to be encouraging trust council to do the same

[0:58:14] Voice 9: whereas if we just say look it's repeat time then that just makes everything move a little faster i

[0:58:21] Voice 9: think thank you

[0:58:22] Voice 12: director mobs uh

[0:58:26] Voice 2: thanks chair i just wanted to comment on the distinction that's

[0:58:30] Voice 2: um being made between item number a and c so it seems unclear at this table and a bit with staff

[0:58:37] Voice 2: as well as to what exactly the distinction is. If we are struggling with that here the province

[0:58:42] Voice 2: will struggle with it as well. So I would suggest if we want to keep those items as distinct that

[0:58:48] Voice 2: we flesh out a little bit what each of those are in the next draft of the letter. I wanted to touch

[0:58:55] Voice 2: faith briefly on the notion of attaching the former RFD to the letter to the province. I don't

[0:59:01] Voice 2: think the lines between that RFD and the language of this letter are very clear. I think it would be

[0:59:07] Voice 2: a better approach to pull out the pieces of that RFD that relate to each of the bullet points in

[0:59:13] Voice 2: the letter and embed them in the body of the letter itself to help draw those lines clearly

[0:59:17] Voice 2: for the province. We need to remember we could have a new government that's picking up this

[0:59:22] Voice 2: piece of work. They may be much less familiar with us than the current government. So the easier we

[0:59:28] Voice 2: can draw those lines and distinctions for them, the faster this thing will move along as it gets

[0:59:33] Voice 2: picked up that's

[0:59:36] Trustee Gedye: that keep it simple principle trustee middleton sorry

[0:59:49] Trustee Middleton: i'm in trouble turning

[0:59:50] Trustee Middleton: audio on there thanks um yeah i think i think we've got general agreement here i think we

[0:59:56] Trustee Middleton: we need to keep the message for this council the same in terms of

[1:00:00] Trustee Middleton: the endorsement of the decision because that adds impact and power but at the same token we are

[1:00:06] Trustee Middleton: reserving the right for the letter writers to be uh clear and impactful um and we also know that

[1:00:13] Trustee Middleton: this may be the first of several letters or pieces of communication where the order of the day is to

[1:00:19] Trustee Middleton: be persuasive um like for instance you know kicking off a letter and saying that the current

[1:00:25] Trustee Middleton: Islands Trust Act in some ways embodies a denial of justice to Aboriginal people and their

[1:00:32] Trustee Middleton: declared rights. We simply cannot act on the Declaration of Rights of Indigenous People

[1:00:39] Trustee Middleton: in the way the legislation intends under the current Islands Trust Act.

[1:00:44] Trustee Middleton: These are the types of communications we can then get into, but I do think it important,

[1:00:49] Trustee Middleton: important, as several of you have said, that this council align with the message from last

[1:00:57] Trustee Middleton: council, how that then is communicated to the ministry in a letter is at the discretion

[1:01:04] Trustee Middleton: of the letter writing group, as Trustee Bernardo pointed out, a working group of people can

[1:01:09] Trustee Middleton: come together from the mandate of this council. So I would suggest the RFD to council to endorse

[1:01:18] Trustee Middleton: a letter be substantially what we currently have uh and then that letter of course is going to be

[1:01:24] Trustee Middleton: worded in a manner that's as impactful and motivating of of uh interest as possible thanks

[1:01:33] Trustee Middleton: all

[1:01:37] Trustee Gedye: right so we're at 10 o'clock um what would you like to work on so um whenever i try to bring

[1:01:50] Trustee Gedye: back to the six points and try to expand on those and to clarify um then um trustee bernardo there's

[1:01:58] Trustee Gedye: resistance so um i'm not sure how you want to spend um the rest of the two hours that we've got

[1:02:05] Trustee Gedye: but sorry trustee harris your hand is up thank

[1:02:10] Voice 10: you and it definitely was not my intent to draw

[1:02:12] Voice 10: this into a long conversation i just i want to uh just respond to cao mobs and i what she was

[1:02:21] Voice 10: saying just made so much sense I don't know if it really sunk in with everybody you know I would

[1:02:26] Voice 10: love to and I wish we could just really focus on that for a second um by an or a trust or CAO mom

[1:02:33] Voice 10: to be going to repeat um that in some fashion that'd be great thank you well

[1:02:44] Trustee Gedye: all right so if

[1:02:45] Trustee Gedye: we work on that um the if ANC is unclear on if we're unclear on the distinction between ANC then

[1:02:54] Trustee Gedye: then it's unlikely that the ministry people are going to be any clearer.

[1:02:58] Trustee Gedye: So if we want to keep them advised,

[1:03:03] Trustee Gedye: then we need to be able to explain the differences.

[1:03:09] Trustee Gedye: That's not an exact pricey, but reasonably close.

[1:03:15] Trustee Gedye: So, and the other point was pulling out pieces in the RFD

[1:03:20] Trustee Gedye: that relate to each bullet point.

[1:03:22] Trustee Gedye: That may not be a good exercise for this committee,

[1:03:25] Trustee Gedye: but um trustee patrick i'm

[1:03:29] Trustee Patrick: wondering if we should make a resolution on just that our recommendation

[1:03:33] Trustee Patrick: is going to be um to undertake a vote on the original motion so that we complete that thought

[1:03:41] Trustee Patrick: process um so that we have at least something that's wrapped and then we could be distinctly

[1:03:46] Trustee Patrick: talking about the delivery of it um and i'm prepared i can be happy to throw a motion on

[1:03:54] Trustee Patrick: floor if that helps sure all right um i move that the governance committee recommend to trust council

[1:04:06] Trustee Patrick: that it conduct a vote on the original june 2022 resolution requesting a governance review

[1:04:17] Trustee Patrick: at its september 2024 meeting oh

[1:04:25] Trustee Gedye: sorry is that um the duplication of the first resolution 071

[1:04:31] Trustee Gedye: sorry

[1:04:35] Trustee Patrick: 071

[1:04:36] Trustee Patrick: I don't

[1:04:36] Trustee Patrick: trust

[1:04:36] Trustee Gedye: council

[1:04:37] Trustee Gedye: 2022

[1:04:37] Trustee Gedye: 071

[1:04:38] Trustee Gedye: request

[1:04:39] Trustee Gedye: lieutenant

[1:04:40] Trustee Gedye: governor

[1:04:40] Trustee Gedye: and council

[1:04:41] Trustee Gedye: of the

[1:04:41] Trustee Gedye: province

[1:04:41] Trustee Gedye: British

[1:04:41] Trustee Gedye: Columbia

[1:04:42] Trustee Gedye: to conduct

[1:04:42] Trustee Gedye: a review

[1:04:43] Trustee Gedye: of the

[1:04:43] Trustee Gedye: island's

[1:04:43] Trustee Gedye: trust

[1:04:43] Trustee Gedye: mandate

[1:04:44] Trustee Gedye: governance

[1:04:45] Trustee Gedye: and structure

[1:04:45] Trustee Gedye: oh

[1:04:46] Trustee Patrick: resolutions

[1:04:47] Trustee Patrick: sorry I should

[1:04:48] Trustee Patrick: have had an

[1:04:48] Trustee Patrick: S

[1:04:48] Trustee Patrick: the June

[1:04:49] Trustee Patrick: 22

[1:04:50] Trustee Patrick: resolutions

[1:04:51] Trustee Patrick: plural

[1:04:51] Trustee Patrick: there were

[1:04:51] Trustee Patrick: two

[1:04:52] Trustee Patrick: all right

[1:04:53] Trustee Patrick: so friendly

[1:04:54] Trustee Patrick: it can be

[1:04:55] Trustee Patrick: added

[1:04:55] Trustee Patrick: S

[1:04:55] Trustee Patrick: to

[1:04:55] Trustee Patrick: resolutions

[1:04:59] Trustee Patrick: so yes

[1:05:00] Trustee Patrick: both

[1:05:00] Trustee Patrick: from the

[1:05:00] Trustee Patrick: same

[1:05:01] Trustee Patrick: RFD

[1:05:03] Trustee Patrick: trusty

[1:05:04] Trustee Patrick: Bernardo

[1:05:05] Trustee Gedye: I

[1:05:05] Voice 9: suspect

[1:05:05] Voice 9: that

[1:05:08] Voice 9: I second the motion.

[1:05:09] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:05:10] Trustee Gedye: So we've got a motion on the floor.

[1:05:13] Trustee Gedye: Is there any discussion?

[1:05:15] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton.

[1:05:17] Trustee Middleton: Just a slight clarification, I'd say.

[1:05:20] Trustee Middleton: Governance review has a certain meaning, I think, in this council as well as last council,

[1:05:25] Trustee Middleton: and that relates to the report we commissioned.

[1:05:29] Trustee Middleton: And the recommendation from June 2022 was broader than that.

[1:05:35] Trustee Middleton: I don't know how you want to characterize this in your motion,

[1:05:37] Trustee Middleton: but it's it asks for a review of the island's trust mandate governance and structure

[1:05:42] Trustee Patrick: yes that's what sorry i meant to i i played the same problem i've been trying to correct

[1:05:47] Trustee Patrick: people for saying so yes okay i can help laurie i think you're the minute taker it was a conducted

[1:06:00] Trustee Patrick: review of the island's trust mandate governance and structure so

[1:06:10] Voice 12: basically

[1:06:20] Trustee Gedye: that's a repeat of

[1:06:23] Trustee Gedye: of the Trust Council 2022-071 resolution or motion.

[1:06:31] Trustee Gedye: I just

[1:06:32] Trustee Gedye: wanted to help

[1:06:32] Trustee Patrick: Laurie with a link.

[1:06:33] Trustee Patrick: Oops, sorry.

[1:06:34] Trustee Patrick: I was going to help her review of the Islands Trust's mandate,

[1:06:40] Trustee Patrick: governance, and structure.

[1:06:44] Trustee Patrick: Of the original Islands Trust?

[1:06:48] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[1:06:50] Trustee Gedye: This is going to...

[1:06:52] Trustee Gedye: Oh, no.

[1:06:54] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Patrick, if what you're trying to do

[1:06:56] Trustee Gedye: is to get this trust council to look at the two resolutions that were passed in june of 22

[1:07:01] Trustee Gedye: then can we not instead of repeating them and scrambling up the words and or going through and

[1:07:08] Trustee Gedye: just um cut and paste can we not say that this governance committee is recommending to trust

[1:07:13] Trustee Gedye: council that we endorse and renew the two resolutions from june of 22 that's fine with me

[1:07:24] Trustee Patrick: whatever

[1:07:24] Voice 9: that's not there that sounds more that's sharper and much more to the point i agree

[1:07:29] Voice 9: all

[1:07:31] Trustee Gedye: right so sorry

[1:07:34] Voice 14: laurie yeah so that we

[1:07:35] Voice 14: endorse and review yeah

[1:07:37] Trustee Gedye: and and repeat

[1:07:42] Trustee Gedye: renew it's renew

[1:07:43] Trustee Gedye: renew thank you

[1:07:44] Trustee Gedye: repeat okay renew the two resolutions from june 22 and

[1:07:54] Voice 14: i can add those

[1:07:55] Voice 14: numbers in okay

[1:07:56] Trustee Gedye: okay so trustee bernardo you had seconded that still seconding the news i mean it's

[1:08:06] Voice 9: pretty clear this is all very friendly amendment so uh once the new language is put up uh i will

[1:08:12] Voice 9: uh yes i'm still second again

[1:08:14] Voice 13: christy stanford

[1:08:16] Trustee Stamford: yes speaking to the motion because of that second

[1:08:21] Trustee Stamford: motion and some concerns around a the assessment of the optimum governance

[1:08:29] Trustee Stamford: model and there seems to be a sense of confusion around that I'm not sure if we

[1:08:36] Trustee Stamford: want to open this can of worms but changing it to a more clear assessment

[1:08:41] Trustee Stamford: of the mandate to preserve and protect or modernization of the mandate to

[1:08:47] Trustee Stamford: preserve and protect is that not what a is saying and distinct from c all

[1:08:56] Trustee Gedye: right so the motion at

[1:08:58] Trustee Gedye: this point is to put these two resolutions back in front of this new trust council and say

[1:09:05] Trustee Gedye: fundamentally we think these two should be endorsed and then what we've talked about today

[1:09:11] Trustee Gedye: is that we need to clarify and expand and distinguish between the elements of each part of

[1:09:18] Trustee Gedye: of the six bullet points.

[1:09:23] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stamford?

[1:09:25] Trustee Stamford: It's just a follow-up.

[1:09:26] Trustee Stamford: Just to clarify his clarification,

[1:09:28] Trustee Stamford: it seems that A is what is,

[1:09:31] Trustee Stamford: in terms of being able to vote this through,

[1:09:35] Trustee Stamford: A is where we're getting some sticking points

[1:09:38] Trustee Stamford: as to the intent.

[1:09:39] Trustee Stamford: So I'm trying to just,

[1:09:43] Trustee Stamford: that within this motion,

[1:09:45] Trustee Stamford: there may be an adjustment for item A

[1:09:48] Trustee Stamford: to make it clear as to what the intent is as distinct from c well

[1:09:54] Trustee Gedye: all right is it not a

[1:09:57] Trustee Gedye: two-step process where we're trying to um put the resolutions before council and then

[1:10:03] Trustee Gedye: talk about our recommendation for updating okay step one is just repeat this and step two is how

[1:10:11] Trustee Gedye: to polish it oh

[1:10:15] Trustee Stamford: okay i'm just because that's the only one that i'm hearing any sense of concern

[1:10:20] Trustee Stamford: over okay it

[1:10:22] Trustee Stamford: may be an option with the inclusion of an amendment to lining

[1:10:28] Trustee Gedye: trustee bernardo was

[1:10:30] Trustee Gedye: your hand still up or is it new no

[1:10:32] Voice 9: it's still up um it's it's actually to um speak to the motion

[1:10:38] Voice 9: and actually it's timely that trustee stamford had made that comment but uh but before i do that

[1:10:46] Voice 9: i mean just in terms of formality should we simply be are we okay i mean have we met the

[1:10:51] Voice 9: formalities that this is now the resolution between the body or do we have to do some

[1:10:54] Voice 9: elaborate voting to make that happen i mean is this the resolution we're going to work with

[1:11:01] Voice 9: just just want to make sure this

[1:11:03] Trustee Gedye: is a motion that's on the table at this point it's been

[1:11:05] Trustee Gedye: been moved and seconded

[1:11:06] Voice 9: okay uh speaking to it and addressing trustee stamford's point i think

[1:11:10] Voice 9: she's right i mean there is some kind of unease and uncertainty here about what this is all about

[1:11:16] Voice 9: but i but i think she's also touched on on what the distinction actually is and i think there is

[1:11:20] Voice 9: actually the more i think about it there actually is a distinction it could have been worded in a

[1:11:24] Voice 9: different way but what item a is about really is what's the best model for governing the trust

[1:11:33] Voice 9: trust area. Right now we've got this federated structure with local trust committees and trust

[1:11:37] Voice 9: council and an arrangement where basically executive committee has veto power over bylaws

[1:11:43] Voice 9: and that whole structure, that whole arrangement. And so I think that's what A is referring to.

[1:11:48] Voice 9: Is that the right way to do that? C, when it talks about governance structure, I think that's

[1:11:53] Voice 9: about how we make decisions internally. And I think that's principally focused on how trust

[1:12:00] Voice 9: council operates and its structure so i think that's where the just distinction is one is that

[1:12:06] Voice 9: the the federated model is that really the right thing or do we does it need fixing and the other

[1:12:11] Voice 9: one is our internal governance so i think that's where the distinction is as i said it could have

[1:12:15] Voice 9: been worded differently but i think that's what they're getting at and i think that's how

[1:12:19] Voice 9: i think that's how we explain it uh to the province thank you if i may

[1:12:24] Trustee Gedye: i'm hearing two

[1:12:25] Trustee Gedye: two things. This motion is that we take the resolutions from 2022 and put them in front

[1:12:32] Trustee Gedye: of this council as is. And then I'm hearing, no, we can't do it as is. We need to make some

[1:12:38] Trustee Gedye: clarification and some adjustments. So this motion is to take them as is and put them in

[1:12:48] Trustee Gedye: front of this council and say that we're endorsing and renewing those two resolutions, right?

[1:12:57] Trustee Gedye: Okay, Trustee Peterson.

[1:12:59] Voice 7: I was speaking in favor of the motion,

[1:13:01] Voice 7: and I think that the consideration about the points

[1:13:07] Voice 7: and how we want to elaborate on them is what we do after this motion carries.

[1:13:17] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:13:19] Trustee Gedye: Do we need to amend this motion to say that we endorse and renew with?

[1:13:29] Trustee Gedye: Let's just go with it.

[1:13:30] Voice 10: Let's just go with it.

[1:13:32] Trustee Gedye: Yeah.

[1:13:32] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:13:32] Trustee Gedye: Great. Trustee Harris.

[1:13:36] Voice 10: Well, just a couple of points.

[1:13:40] Voice 10: On, you know, this A and C deal, whichever the points were, you know, it all looks great.

[1:13:49] Voice 10: And I'm just hearing, you know, what Trustee Bernardo thought the distinctions were between the two.

[1:13:55] Voice 10: And thank you for that.

[1:13:57] Voice 10: I would you know what comes to my mind is well where is the where does the undemocratic nature

[1:14:03] Voice 10: of the you know the from what I see I shouldn't be fostering but the grossly undemocratic nature

[1:14:09] Voice 10: of the analyst trust governing structure where like where point does that fit into

[1:14:14] Voice 10: and because honestly it doesn't have to be that complicated as long as the undemocratic nature

[1:14:19] Voice 10: you know and and and if we can voice that as one of the issues and then the

[1:14:26] Voice 10: DRIPA deal it's you know it's a lot of it's pretty much all in there but as far

[1:14:32] Voice 10: as this motion goes well I'm happy to see that they're adding the numbers

[1:14:37] Voice 10: because I was just going to say well exactly which two resolutions were we

[1:14:42] Voice 10: talking about because I'm sure there was more than two resolutions at that trust

[1:14:45] Voice 10: council meeting so but I see that's being corrected now so those are my two

[1:14:50] Voice 10: Two points, thanks.

[1:14:52] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Patrick.

[1:14:54] Trustee Patrick: Speaking to the motion,

[1:14:56] Trustee Patrick: I think voting on the exact resolutions

[1:14:59] Trustee Patrick: that were done in June 22

[1:15:01] Trustee Patrick: puts us in the strongest political position.

[1:15:04] Trustee Patrick: I think that's the fundamental thing.

[1:15:07] Trustee Patrick: Any clarifications and so forth could be done in the letter.

[1:15:11] Trustee Patrick: And I think the second part to this

[1:15:13] Trustee Patrick: is the demonstration that it shows.

[1:15:15] Trustee Patrick: If we can support the original resolutions strongly,

[1:15:19] Trustee Patrick: strongly um that it also demonstrates that we agree on something as a body i'll point out today

[1:15:25] Trustee Patrick: just the news if you look at the news today metro vancouver you know uh is having its normal

[1:15:31] Trustee Patrick: meltdowns yes it's not ireland's trust but the province said that it would support a review if

[1:15:39] Trustee Patrick: metro vancouver requests one well we requested one last term and got an answer back well how about

[1:15:45] Trustee Patrick: about you guys? What do you think? So I think this is a political message that we'll have to

[1:15:50] Trustee Patrick: be sending. And I think it's stronger if we just vote on the original motions as is. And we can

[1:15:56] Trustee Patrick: clarify separately.

[1:15:59] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton.

[1:16:03] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair. Yeah. And what Trustee Stamford says and

[1:16:07] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Harris certainly resonates. And I've gone back and forth internally thinking, yeah, well,

[1:16:11] Trustee Middleton: why we can just have a subsequent motion perhaps that would adjust the bullet points for the

[1:16:20] Trustee Middleton: potential scope of review to make it clearer. But I'm tending to think that what Trustee Patrick

[1:16:26] Trustee Middleton: just said is probably the more powerful point. And in our communications, we can talk about

[1:16:33] Trustee Middleton: alignment of decision-making processes in regards to RIPA is a pretty benign statement.

[1:16:38] Trustee Middleton: We can say that more strongly in our communications, and we can also clarify this these governance issues in our communications.

[1:16:46] Trustee Middleton: I I anticipate there's going to be more than one letter coming out of this initiative.

[1:16:50] Trustee Middleton: So I guess thank you for indulging me and sharing my thoughts.

[1:16:55] Trustee Middleton: But I think the original motion that stands without reference to adjustment of the of the scope bullet points is probably the way to go here.

[1:17:04] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:17:06] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo.

[1:17:09] Voice 9: Yes, following up on, I just wanted to voice my entire agreement with Trustee Patrick.

[1:17:14] Voice 9: I wish I had said it her way.

[1:17:15] Voice 9: It's a lot clearer than I've been fumbling around with.

[1:17:17] Voice 9: I agree entirely.

[1:17:19] Voice 9: We can clarify what we need to in terms of what we mean by this thing.

[1:17:24] Voice 9: I mean, her point about the politics of it is like, yeah, this is the most powerful thing we can do.

[1:17:30] Voice 9: yes we need to clear up some of the what the language actually means that can be done in the

[1:17:36] Voice 9: letter so that solved that problem how we do that well we can discuss that later uh it probably

[1:17:43] Voice 9: falls in the hands of whatever whoever writes this to see if they can get the language right

[1:17:48] Voice 9: but uh addressing specifically on that level in terms of where does the representation issue go i

[1:17:56] Voice 9: I think it is part of the explanation that goes with respect to item A, because the governance

[1:18:02] Voice 9: model we have right now is the LTCs are kind of democratic, the Trust Council is not.

[1:18:11] Voice 9: That's the governance model that we have right now for the Federation.

[1:18:14] Voice 9: So I think that's where the discussion about the representation by population dilemma,

[1:18:19] Voice 9: and it's not a simple problem, I think that's where the discussion goes.

[1:18:24] Voice 9: Because if we actually did have representation by population, we'd have, there's a whole other problem.

[1:18:29] Trustee Gedye: Let's deal with the motion on the floor that's on the table.

[1:18:34] Trustee Gedye: So, sorry, Laurie, can we pull that back up again?

[1:18:38] Trustee Gedye: Is there any more discussion on this motion?

[1:18:41] Trustee Gedye: It's moved by Patrick and seconded by Bernardo.

[1:18:48] Trustee Gedye: Any more discussion?

[1:18:51] Trustee Gedye: All right, I'm going to call the question.

[1:18:53] Trustee Gedye: Question. Governance Committee recommended Trust Council we endorse and renew the two resolutions TC 2022-071 and TC 2022-072 from the June 22nd 2022 Trust Council meeting at its September 24 meeting.

[1:19:14] Trustee Gedye: Any questions? Any clarification?

[1:19:16] Trustee Gedye: All right, let's vote. All those in favor?

[1:19:19] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:19:24] Trustee Gedye: Six in favor.

[1:19:26] Voice 8: Sorry?

[1:19:28] Voice 8: that sticks in favor okay

[1:19:30] Trustee Gedye: i'll put my hand up too and any opposed hands down any opposed

[1:19:38] Trustee Gedye: i'm

[1:19:40] Voice 8: seeing that opposed okay

[1:19:42] Trustee Gedye: thank you all right we've got a motion

[1:19:45] Trustee Gedye: um all right so um it's 10 20 um we're i think we should be getting into uh

[1:19:56] Trustee Gedye: clarification and distinctions between those whatever clarification would be in a letter

[1:20:02] Trustee Gedye: and that is a wider and possibly more difficult discussion would it be time for break now

[1:20:09] Trustee Gedye: for 10-15 minutes and then come back and start in any objection to that plan every couple of

[1:20:18] Trustee Gedye: thumbs up all right so i have um 10 20 uh let's come back at uh 10 35 15 minute break

[1:20:27] Trustee Gedye: all right welcome

[1:20:36] Voice 13: back everybody i think everybody's here all right um if

[1:20:53] Trustee Gedye: we were to start

[1:20:54] Trustee Gedye: the discussion on um this whole idea of um and i think maybe getting it on the table and working

[1:21:03] Trustee Gedye: it through in terms of this uh james trustee harris's idea about representation by population

[1:21:10] Trustee Gedye: and work on that dig down into that for a little bit and see where we get that might help with

[1:21:18] Trustee Gedye: respect to i think understanding the difference between a and c in the original resolution that

[1:21:29] Trustee Gedye: had the six points. So if I can start off, the differences between the islands are significant,

[1:21:39] Trustee Gedye: both in terms of physical space and size and the size of the populations. So that's one factor.

[1:21:46] Trustee Gedye: We've got a federation that is supposed to be equally represented of each island, regardless

[1:21:51] Trustee Gedye: of size and population. We also have, I think, different demographics, and some of us have

[1:21:58] Trustee Gedye: aging populations and others have problems keeping younger families and

[1:22:04] Trustee Gedye: young workers on island and I think that some don't have that problem and are

[1:22:10] Trustee Gedye: attracting young families. I know Bowen has quite a sizable population of young

[1:22:17] Trustee Gedye: families. We've also, with respect to the population, it could very well bring in

[1:22:24] Trustee Gedye: and all the problems of development and housing and services

[1:22:28] Trustee Gedye: and what some of us have more pressing problems than others.

[1:22:34] Trustee Gedye: So if we're talking about a structure of the federation,

[1:22:41] Trustee Gedye: there's also the distinction that was made, I believe,

[1:22:45] Trustee Gedye: in the governance review in terms of how the trust council

[1:22:48] Trustee Gedye: is to talk about policy and local trust committees

[1:22:52] Trustee Gedye: were the administration of those and that there was some distinction and some tension between

[1:23:02] Trustee Gedye: local trust committees and I suppose OCPs or land use bylaws taking a more

[1:23:12] Trustee Gedye: local approach in terms of interpretation of some of the policies. So if those are the kinds

[1:23:20] Trustee Gedye: of questions that we want to have um examined um is that how we phrase as words to those effector

[1:23:31] Trustee Gedye: ideas around that how we add to and distinguish between a and c is that the discussion that we

[1:23:38] Trustee Gedye: need to help the province have kate louise um

[1:23:46] Trustee Stamford: i don't see a that way what i see a is is a response

[1:23:51] Trustee Stamford: to the first motion which says conduct a review of the islands trust mandate governance and

[1:23:59] Trustee Stamford: structure it's the mandate that we haven't approached in any other aspect of the the

[1:24:05] Trustee Stamford: second motion so that's what i see a speaking to um regardless of how we speak to issues of

[1:24:15] Trustee Stamford: of uh representation and and fairness which i think is a much bigger topic um that's where i

[1:24:24] Trustee Stamford: see the the clarity around a requiring b

[1:24:28] Trustee Gedye: talks about the object of the trust and clarification

[1:24:31] Trustee Gedye: of the mandate okay

[1:24:34] Trustee Stamford: i stand corrected yeah um i think we need to just strictly talk about

[1:24:44] Trustee Stamford: the the perceived or real um unfairness in population um and how do we insert that where

[1:24:57] Trustee Stamford: is the most appropriate place to insert that and and get some more specifics around that

[1:25:01] Trustee Stamford: so

[1:25:05] Trustee Gedye: we pose the question you're suggesting then that we pose the question to the province in

[1:25:09] Trustee Gedye: terms of how do we deal with it more fairly no

[1:25:12] Trustee Stamford: i'm saying let's let's talk about is that what

[1:25:15] Trustee Stamford: i thought that's what you wanted to do was talk about yeah

[1:25:18] Voice 13: well

[1:25:21] Trustee Gedye: with the caveat that we're not

[1:25:23] Trustee Gedye: coming up with the answer we're just trying to clarify what the question is and the parameters

[1:25:27] Trustee Gedye: of the question for the province this is how we see it in terms of i i mean i'm open to suggestions

[1:25:36] Trustee Gedye: at the on that point trustee peterson yeah

[1:25:40] Voice 7: i agree that um that uh we're not uh tasked with

[1:25:45] Voice 7: coming up with the solutions today um i think it's more about pointing out the issues clearly

[1:25:53] Voice 7: islands with larger populations have less representation um on the flip side of that

[1:26:01] Voice 7: if we go by population uh representation by population then the uh then the voice of the

[1:26:11] Voice 7: lesser populated islands it essentially would be seen as being disenfranchised um in terms of trust

[1:26:19] Voice 7: council um and so how does that how does the federation continue to function um so i think

[1:26:28] Voice 7: those are those are both ends of the scale there christy

[1:26:34] Trustee Patrick: patrick i would suggest that

[1:26:38] Trustee Patrick: because we just made a motion saying let's just put the you know the original motion forward

[1:26:43] Trustee Patrick: There's reasons for it. We should talk in general about just the points of why do a review. I think trying to link point to point, point to point, we're going to get ourselves down rabbit holes. So we should just say, why are we asking the province to do a review of the act?

[1:27:02] Trustee Patrick: act um and this this representation question is one of them and i think trying to link them you

[1:27:09] Trustee Patrick: know we could say i was inspired by this point and this is what i said but i think trying to say

[1:27:13] Trustee Patrick: point and and specifics i think we're going to get ourselves there so i think we should stay

[1:27:19] Trustee Patrick: in generalities and say here's the overall reasons and

[1:27:26] Voice 12: uh trustee bernardo uh

[1:27:30] Voice 9: yeah um

[1:27:31] Voice 9: So addressing the immediate point of the representation by population issue, I think it naturally falls under C in terms of why it's a pressing issue, because it does relate to how we in fact, it's how we govern ourselves.

[1:27:51] Voice 9: We have this peculiar structure in terms of governance, which, you know, we act creates this trust council that is just undemocratic.

[1:28:02] Voice 9: And so and the trust council is in charge of the trust policy statement.

[1:28:07] Voice 9: It's in charge of budgets, is in charge of allocating staff resources.

[1:28:12] Voice 9: It's got a chokehold on everything that happens at the LTC level.

[1:28:15] Voice 9: level. And it's not representative of the trust area in the sense of the voting power. So that's

[1:28:24] Voice 9: definitely a governing structure issue, whereas A is more about the federation, I think. But having

[1:28:30] Voice 9: said that, I think Trustee Patrick is right that we don't need to be overly obsessive or rigorous

[1:28:40] Voice 9: about drawing a big black line between the items in that list and the reasons for the review i mean

[1:28:47] Voice 9: i like i mentioned before these are all facets of this of of the larger question about whether or

[1:28:53] Voice 9: not the islands trust as currently constituted uh is fit for purpose if we accept that the object

[1:29:01] Voice 9: of the islands trust in some fashion needs to continue which is to say and i think we do that

[1:29:06] Voice 9: that the islands are special.

[1:29:09] Voice 9: They aren't just another area that just needs a form of local government.

[1:29:14] Voice 9: There's a reason why the Islands Trust exists.

[1:29:16] Voice 9: It may be that Section 3 needs to be clarified,

[1:29:19] Voice 9: but the ultimate object of preserving and protecting

[1:29:23] Voice 9: the rural character of the islands is why we're here.

[1:29:27] Voice 9: And I think we have to accept at that fundamental level,

[1:29:31] Voice 9: that's not changing and it's not for us to advocate any change on that front.

[1:29:34] Voice 9: so if we accept that that will in some fashion remain the object of the trust the question then

[1:29:42] Voice 9: is this larger question is the trust is currently constituted fit for that purpose and that's what

[1:29:48] Voice 9: all of these things are all aspects of so that's why i agree wholeheartedly with trustee patrick

[1:29:53] Voice 9: that we don't need to be overly obsessed with the idea of like doing a one-for-one

[1:29:57] Voice 9: correlation between a reason and

[1:29:59] Voice 9: And.

[1:30:00] Voice 9: the things that we're talking about having a as the rfd did having kind of a larger kind of

[1:30:07] Voice 9: you know fairly sophisticated discussion of what the challenges are will um illustrate why a through

[1:30:16] Voice 9: f are necessary thank you

[1:30:19] Voice 13: christy middleton thank

[1:30:24] Trustee Middleton: you yes um i just thinking of the next step so

[1:30:29] Trustee Middleton: next step is obviously we present this motion that we just voted on to trust council in September

[1:30:37] Trustee Middleton: obviously there'll be some accompanying documentation and we've heard that there's

[1:30:44] Trustee Middleton: a little bit of confusion in terms of the scope points so I'm wondering if we just

[1:30:48] Trustee Middleton: update the RFD document which seems to have found favor with the committee here in terms

[1:30:55] Trustee Middleton: of its strength of its argument updated as though it is now coming from us the governance committee

[1:31:03] Trustee Middleton: and perhaps cite a couple of examples that if you're not in the know you wouldn't know

[1:31:09] Trustee Middleton: that these examples were contemplated by this work one being the the representation

[1:31:16] Trustee Middleton: by population argument so we just perhaps do a few representative bullet points to help

[1:31:22] Trustee Middleton: clarify the meaning of a through f and that's included in the rfd um that acknowledges that

[1:31:30] Trustee Middleton: there might be some confusion but also doesn't uh pretend to be exhaustive or try to chase down

[1:31:36] Trustee Middleton: each specific issue they're more there for illustrative purposes of the scope uh and then

[1:31:42] Trustee Middleton: that's that larger rfd document that updated rfd document with the examples is what um goes to

[1:31:49] Trustee Middleton: council in September and it's the raw material for then the letter that is to be written or the

[1:31:55] Trustee Middleton: first letter all

[1:31:58] Trustee Gedye: right we have um I looked what's not on the agenda is our next meeting is September

[1:32:03] Trustee Gedye: the 9th and that is some two or three weeks ahead of the trust council meeting so if we did have

[1:32:10] Trustee Gedye: something to um that we wanted to present to trust council my I believe my timing is that we need to

[1:32:17] Trustee Gedye: have it pretty well solidified by the September 9th meeting in order to get it onto the agenda

[1:32:25] Trustee Gedye: if and that might be too tight tight a timeline so um we do have a meeting just before the trust

[1:32:32] Trustee Gedye: council meeting in September so keep that in mind trustee Harris I'm

[1:32:40] Voice 10: I guess I'm a little um

[1:32:42] Voice 10: uncertain about actually what's where we're going at this point um I understand the motion we just

[1:32:49] Voice 10: passed that's great um thank you chair getty for bringing up you know what we did when we

[1:32:55] Voice 10: got back into the meeting um so i guess i'm i'm mostly uncertain of are we not going to be making

[1:33:03] Voice 10: points about these you know i hear what trustee bernard was saying you know in regards to trustee

[1:33:10] Voice 10: patrick's comment about not getting too involved um so i guess i'm just not sure i was telling

[1:33:16] Voice 10: how that's supposed to turn

[1:33:17] Trustee Gedye: it around instead of it being a question what is it that you would

[1:33:20] Trustee Gedye: like to see happen right at this point you're on mute i

[1:33:24] Voice 10: don't even know at this point thank you um

[1:33:26] Voice 10: but um i i i'm just a little bit uncertain of something it seems to be creating

[1:33:31] Voice 10: at this point

[1:33:31] Voice 10: thank you

[1:33:32] Trustee Gedye: chrissy peterson um

[1:33:36] Voice 7: so i'm thinking that it might be useful um for us to sort of

[1:33:42] Voice 7: enumerate uh uh some of the challenges um that we've experienced uh that we

[1:33:51] Voice 7: hear about for the public that illustrates sort of the why of of these uh these adaf points

[1:34:03] Voice 7: um and that might be one way to to look at um okay in terms of explanation

[1:34:11] Voice 7: well so certainly uh the the um the representation issue um is is one of them

[1:34:21] Voice 7: Again, I would suggest that if we focus on enumerating challenges rather than suggesting

[1:34:29] Voice 7: solutions that that would be more appropriate.

[1:34:33] Voice 7: So representation, it would be certainly one.

[1:34:41] Voice 7: There's a bunch in structure, but rather than getting into that at this point, I think one

[1:34:48] Voice 7: One of the ones that stands out for me is really what we're hearing from First Nations in regard to the decision-making process and its relation to the Declaration of Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act.

[1:35:07] Voice 7: That's one that stands out for me as a challenge, a big challenge and a serious challenge, especially in respect of the number of nations that have interests in the trust area, somewhere north of 30.

[1:35:25] Voice 7: So that's, I think, that's one, a big one.

[1:35:29] Voice 7: And I don't want to take up too

[1:35:30] Trustee Gedye: much time to

[1:35:31] Voice 7: hear other people's challenges as well.

[1:35:34] Voice 7: And

[1:35:34] Trustee Gedye: that's such a complicated question because there's the feds in the province that actually have the jurisdiction and we're the little local government.

[1:35:44] Voice 7: Well, precisely. And again, I don't want us to get into the weeds of suggesting solutions, but really just pointing out the challenges is what I think would be useful.

[1:35:56] Voice 7: well so

[1:35:58] Trustee Gedye: um yeah there's a whole bunch of material there that could be um condensed and and um

[1:36:08] Trustee Gedye: included in the our understanding of some of the challenges trustee harris well

[1:36:16] Voice 10: yeah because it's

[1:36:17] Voice 10: clear the challenges are there and it's not i don't feel that it's up to us to be posing um

[1:36:21] Voice 10: solutions to the province i think that would be you know where we need to point out the challenges

[1:36:27] Voice 10: and have it opened up, I would hope.

[1:36:29] Voice 10: And then with the province when there's more talking

[1:36:33] Voice 10: could happen similar to, well,

[1:36:35] Voice 10: trustee Middleton is speaking about

[1:36:37] Voice 10: maybe there being many letters.

[1:36:40] Voice 10: So, the, hey, I'll leave it at that, thanks.

[1:36:47] Voice 14: Trustee Bernardo.

[1:36:49] Voice 9: Yeah, I think in terms of,

[1:36:54] Voice 9: for talking about elaborating rationale in the letter,

[1:37:02] Voice 9: As that little outline sketch thingy I sent out last night indicates,

[1:37:08] Voice 9: I do think it's both the smart thing and the right thing, I think,

[1:37:15] Voice 9: to lead off with a discussion about how we are not equipped

[1:37:23] Voice 9: to fulfill the reconciliation mandate, one can put it that way,

[1:37:28] Voice 9: the province has put on us and that we accept wholeheartedly.

[1:37:32] Voice 9: We don't have the equipment.

[1:37:36] Voice 9: And, but we don't even know, frankly, if we're going to be honest about this, how to think about it. It is, as Judy, you pointed out, you know, you know, we're a local government that has this kind of very narrow purview in terms of the things we're supposed to do land planning.

[1:37:53] Voice 9: and we also have 27 First Nations and I do think that we could lead off with a with a positive

[1:38:00] Voice 9: discussion about reconciliation to point out that we don't know how to solve this but the fact that

[1:38:08] Voice 9: we have such a wide exposure to so many different First Nations is an opportunity to to for the

[1:38:17] Voice 9: province to work with us to develop something new and potentially you know terrific because

[1:38:26] Voice 9: uh i think just dealing with first nations one by one uh may be necessary in specific

[1:38:33] Voice 9: cases but i think there also needs to be kind of this larger thing but uh following up on what

[1:38:38] Voice 9: other people are saying here i think especially with the reconciliation business

[1:38:42] Voice 9: and and pointing out that we're not equipped to deal with these things and we need the help

[1:38:48] Voice 9: It would be especially wrong for us to propose solutions on that front.

[1:38:53] Voice 9: Those solutions have to come out of a review in which the province engages not just us, but the First Nations themselves.

[1:39:03] Voice 9: I mean, I mean, you know, this can't be another top down deal.

[1:39:07] Voice 9: And we ought not to have get so ambitious that we started thinking we've got any ideas about how to solve that when we really don't.

[1:39:15] Voice 9: So I think we could lead off in reconciliation.

[1:39:17] Voice 9: And I think the representation by population dilemma, as far as I'm concerned, is related to the reconciliation issue in the sense that there is the larger issue of representation just at the democratic population level, but there's this absence of meaningful representation for First Nations.

[1:39:38] Voice 9: It's this engagement process as well, meaning it's what we can do right now, but it's not enough.

[1:39:45] Voice 9: And but having said that, I mean, personally, I find it kind of offensive the way the trust council is structured in terms of how it really is not a democratic organization.

[1:39:57] Voice 9: And I don't think let's remember this thing was built before the charter came along.

[1:40:03] Voice 9: on. And I'm not sure the constitutional lawyers over the province would sign off on something

[1:40:09] Voice 9: like this today. But anyhow, I think that's the second major thing. And I do think a third major

[1:40:16] Voice 9: thing that we need to talk about in the letter is that the fact is that despite our best efforts

[1:40:21] Voice 9: to bring about clarity to this issue, there remains this persistent tension over Section 3.

[1:40:28] Voice 9: To me, you know, when I put on my lawyer hat, you know, when I applied, let's just, you know, legal interpretation principles, it's fairly straightforward to me.

[1:40:37] Voice 9: But I mean, that doesn't mean it's straightforward to anybody else.

[1:40:42] Voice 9: And I think the problem we do need, in a sense, the province to help us cut that particular Gordian knot, simply to clarify, use language that clarifies what do unique amenities actually mean?

[1:40:57] Voice 9: What is the proportion of what kind of attention should be given to the environment versus communities?

[1:41:02] Voice 9: That tension has been bedeviling the trust since the 90s, since the last trust policy statement.

[1:41:13] Voice 9: And it's a significant source of the tension and unhappiness that's out there.

[1:41:18] Voice 9: So we need to have that resolved.

[1:41:19] Voice 9: So I think those three items, I think, are, as far as my point of view, should be the lead items that we bring forward in the letter. Thanks.

[1:41:33] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton?

[1:41:37] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Yeah, I'm just thinking procedurally then how to move forward. I think a powerful argument has been outlined.

[1:41:43] Trustee Middleton: I think we have to make the assumption that the province isn't naturally motivated to engage in reviews of this nature.

[1:41:52] Trustee Middleton: sure it could be messy it opens a lot of doors um and so i think leading off with the reconciliation

[1:42:00] Trustee Middleton: argument as a it's a good news story and the positive uh things that we're we're looking to

[1:42:08] Trustee Middleton: achieve through through this review in regard reconciliation is absolutely the right way to go

[1:42:13] Trustee Middleton: and may in fact prove to be quite motivating to the province um but i'm just thinking mechanically

[1:42:19] Trustee Middleton: how do we then get this letter and we've talked about who's writing it we've talked in general

[1:42:24] Trustee Middleton: that there'll be a motion presented to trust council i still think there's going to need to

[1:42:29] Trustee Middleton: be an rfd document if that rfd document is the rationale broad rationale that trustee patrick

[1:42:35] Trustee Middleton: and trustee bernardo are talking about those

[1:42:38] Trustee Gedye: administrative details to the end and just deal

[1:42:41] Trustee Gedye: with content at this point well

[1:42:43] Trustee Middleton: but that is that's the crux of the matter right it's like how does

[1:42:47] Trustee Middleton: this how does this move forward what's the vehicle that the the the the content is embodied in and

[1:42:53] Trustee Middleton: and i would suggest that we have it here it just needs to be written down and presented and and

[1:43:00] Trustee Middleton: i can certainly respect what you're saying here we can put off the who is doing it

[1:43:05] Trustee Middleton: but i'm suggesting that we do actually have a vehicle here um okay and that

[1:43:10] Trustee Middleton: is our way forward

[1:43:11] Trustee Middleton: what

[1:43:12] Trustee Gedye: do you see as the challenges the

[1:43:16] Trustee Middleton: challenges and the the broader

[1:43:20] Trustee Middleton: what

[1:43:20] Trustee Gedye: are you hearing from people in terms of the things that aren't working

[1:43:23] Trustee Gedye: oh

[1:43:25] Trustee Middleton: well we need about four more hours i think i mean we're we're uh we we know on many levels

[1:43:32] Trustee Middleton: an organization that is constituted around the mechanics of land use planning is woefully and

[1:43:39] Trustee Middleton: adequately equipped to deal with broader questions of ecological soundness, uses of the marine waters

[1:43:46] Trustee Middleton: and what our legal reach is or shouldn't be, cooperation with other levels of government in

[1:43:53] Trustee Middleton: terms of southern resident kill whale protection. You know, anytime we seek to go beyond our mandate,

[1:44:02] Trustee Middleton: we end up in platitudes because, of course, the only tools we actually have are effectively lines

[1:44:07] Trustee Middleton: on a map and zoning, and that's inadequate for the challenges we face. I mean, this has been

[1:44:15] Trustee Middleton: said many, many, many ways by constituents, by other trustees, and the governance report

[1:44:22] Trustee Middleton: comes right back to the issue of there's a void of political leadership at the heart of the

[1:44:29] Trustee Middleton: structure of the organization, which won't change, it seems, unless the Act changes. So, I mean,

[1:44:35] Trustee Middleton: you know i've just like machined on the whole bunch of stuff there and i think that's the point

[1:44:39] Trustee Middleton: that trustee patrick and bernardo are making is if you get going on the on the specific minutia

[1:44:44] Trustee Middleton: of the issues you run the risk of having people react to to those you know arguments of frustration

[1:44:51] Trustee Middleton: and we lose kind of the broader thrust for a meaningful and hopefully positive review of the

[1:44:58] Trustee Middleton: the islands trust act so i don't know that a menu of problems i mean i hear what you're saying we

[1:45:05] Trustee Middleton: really illustrate as the ceo said we have to actually be explanatory we can't assume that

[1:45:12] Trustee Middleton: that the uh points a through f resonate or have meaning with with our audience but i think um

[1:45:20] Trustee Middleton: we have to be very disciplined how much we put there we just literally want to provide some

[1:45:25] Trustee Middleton: illustrative instances. But

[1:45:27] Trustee Gedye: I find that very helpful in terms of, you know, dealing with

[1:45:31] Trustee Gedye: multiple agencies. If we just look at the killer whales, that there's, you know, the following 17

[1:45:36] Trustee Gedye: different organizations that we could and should be liaising with and interacting with, and we just

[1:45:42] Trustee Gedye: don't have the capacity to do that, right? So, Trustee Stamford.

[1:45:50] Trustee Stamford: Yes, I mean, listening to all

[1:45:52] Trustee Stamford: this is our reality. I think we have to really position ourselves as what is different from the

[1:46:01] Trustee Stamford: issues that other local governments are facing and how is ours more pertinent for response

[1:46:10] Trustee Stamford: than other things that regional districts are dealing with through UBCM. A lot of what our

[1:46:18] Trustee Stamford: our concerns are, are also reflected in other governments.

[1:46:22] Trustee Stamford: So how do we make our arguments unique to the Islands Trust?

[1:46:27] Trustee Stamford: What is it that the trust provides that other local governments don't?

[1:46:32] Trustee Stamford: And why is that important?

[1:46:34] Trustee Stamford: And to have that in the background.

[1:46:37] Trustee Gedye: One of the things that I keep bumping up against is that our mandate is to stay rural and to

[1:46:43] Trustee Gedye: to stay small and to you know protect the unique amenities and all of the that that encompasses

[1:46:49] Trustee Gedye: which is you know a much broader question than just the word rural but you know we don't have

[1:46:55] Trustee Gedye: the same opportunities for growth because of our mandate so you know if if we can't expand

[1:47:02] Trustee Gedye: unlimited both in terms because it's an island and because of the mandate and because of

[1:47:08] Trustee Gedye: the kinds of communities that we want to protect then you know how do we how do we survive in terms

[1:47:15] Trustee Gedye: that's what

[1:47:16] Trustee Stamford: makes it unique in my my view and i just want to add whenever we get into the unique

[1:47:22] Trustee Stamford: amenities discussion um there is all sorts of vague statements out in different levels of

[1:47:31] Trustee Stamford: governance i don't think they're going to worry too much about that one i think they're the whole

[1:47:37] Trustee Stamford: point is for us to keep working on that and that that what unique amenities means will evolve and

[1:47:46] Trustee Stamford: that's part of our future I wouldn't be surprised if that one gets thrown back at us just because

[1:47:53] Trustee Gedye: there's lots

[1:47:54] Trustee Stamford: of examples of it out there I

[1:47:56] Trustee Gedye: wasn't thinking of that as a part of you it is a part of

[1:48:00] Trustee Gedye: unique amenities but I think that because the mandate is specifically to stay rural then that

[1:48:07] Trustee Gedye: That is different from every other local government, village, town, whatever, in terms of, you know, there's potentially unlimited growth.

[1:48:17] Trustee Gedye: And we were specifically told, no, you're not even remotely thinking about unlimited growth.

[1:48:23] Trustee Gedye: You have finite restrictions.

[1:48:25] Trustee Gedye: So, you know, and that was the letter back from the Minister of Housing in terms of why Salt Spring wasn't included in the whatever that legislation was in terms of no,

[1:48:35] Trustee Gedye: No, because you've got this particular mandate.

[1:48:38] Trustee Gedye: You're not like the rest of the province.

[1:48:39] Trustee Gedye: So we are and we aren't, right?

[1:48:42] Trustee Gedye: So those are the aspects I was thinking of.

[1:48:45] Trustee Gedye: And as we stay rural and green and beautiful,

[1:48:49] Trustee Gedye: then we're the holiday place of choice

[1:48:54] Trustee Gedye: so that we've got an extra burden of tourism.

[1:48:58] Trustee Gedye: So, Trustee Patrick.

[1:49:01] Trustee Patrick: Well, and also that same letter that you pointed out,

[1:49:03] Trustee Patrick: it said that Salt Spring couldn't do it because of the mandate,

[1:49:05] Trustee Patrick: but Bowen did get included in the act, but it's in the same mandate.

[1:49:10] Trustee Patrick: And

[1:49:10] Trustee Gedye: we've asked them why we're included and we'd like to be excluded.

[1:49:14] Trustee Gedye: Thank you very much.

[1:49:15] Trustee Gedye: And they haven't responded because they've stopped responding to all

[1:49:18] Trustee Gedye: questions.

[1:49:19] Trustee Patrick: So that's frustrating. Anyway. I mean, again,

[1:49:25] Trustee Patrick: I like where we ended up with a conversation with Lee that we need just some

[1:49:29] Trustee Patrick: illustrative examples.

[1:49:30] Trustee Patrick: And I think we can fire them all out and then choose which ones are most

[1:49:33] Trustee Patrick: most powerful um i i think a good statement that was in one of the findings that was in the

[1:49:40] Trustee Patrick: governance review was uh in the land use section it noted that one of the one of the local planning

[1:49:46] Trustee Patrick: staff members put it um many of the land use bylaws that we have are historical artifacts

[1:49:55] Trustee Patrick: we inherited all of them like on salt spring i mean we're we're working to land use bylaws

[1:50:00] Trustee Patrick: laws created in 1971. And we haven't done anything to modernize and update. So there's there's that

[1:50:09] Trustee Patrick: issue. But I think it's also just the complexity of the region. Seven regional districts, 450

[1:50:16] Trustee Patrick: islands, 1363 kilometers of shoreline, 35,000 people spread out, you know, we just describing

[1:50:24] Trustee Patrick: the geographic area that we're in

[1:50:28] Trustee Patrick: is a powerful thing right there.

[1:50:35] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, Trustee Peterson.

[1:50:38] Voice 7: This follows up on some of what Trustee Patrick

[1:50:42] Voice 7: was saying in terms of item

[1:50:46] Voice 7: E there.

[1:50:50] Voice 7: If you look at a map of BC

[1:50:53] Voice 7: and you draw a line where the jurisdiction of Islands Trust goes

[1:51:01] Voice 7: in the marine environment, it's a huge area.

[1:51:04] Voice 7: This is like the central part of the coast.

[1:51:08] Voice 7: This is massive.

[1:51:10] Voice 7: One of the challenges that sticks out for me is around, for example,

[1:51:17] Voice 7: the private mooring buoys issue.

[1:51:20] Voice 7: issue um four levels of government with jurisdiction here of which we are the junior

[1:51:28] Voice 7: how are we to achieve our mandate to preserve and protect given this complexity the complexity of

[1:51:36] Voice 7: this these four jurisdictions and the difficulty at times of getting um some of the levels of

[1:51:41] Voice 7: other levels of government to the table so that's one of the challenges that stands out for me

[1:51:46] Voice 7: um with regard to the uh the letter to salt spring from the housing minister

[1:51:56] Voice 7: uh i think one of the things that um i've been contemplating on around what an appropriate

[1:52:07] Voice 7: response of that is clearly the minister is saying okay you don't get to be in these programs

[1:52:13] Voice 7: because you are you are you and you are special so then the alternative the the response is not

[1:52:21] Voice 7: well please just let us into this program but how how are you going to then address the serious

[1:52:28] Voice 7: issues that we have around housing uh in the island stressed areas if we're not going to be

[1:52:34] Voice 7: part of your broader program then where's the bespoke program that you're putting together to

[1:52:41] Voice 7: help us uh in the islands to um in terms of the integrity of our communities and the communities

[1:52:51] Voice 7: the residents the communities this is part of of what our mandate is so i'll just leave those two

[1:52:58] Voice 7: for now

[1:52:59] Voice 12: christy harris thank

[1:53:04] Voice 10: you um you know i was going to the bill 44 and the response from

[1:53:11] Voice 10: the province um you know the letter that they sent back um you know they cited section three

[1:53:16] Voice 10: but failed to recognize Trust Council's recent decision on the mandate.

[1:53:23] Voice 10: They completely failed to recognize that, didn't mention it.

[1:53:27] Voice 10: They spoke as if we hadn't come to that agreement

[1:53:30] Voice 10: on what unique amenities could include.

[1:53:39] Voice 10: I'm sure all this will be addressed as this letter goes off to the province

[1:53:44] Voice 10: and some you know concerning the review and and um but the um you know keeping as far as keeping

[1:53:50] Voice 10: rural it goes and that's what part of the mandate was um it's salt spring is no longer rural it's

[1:53:58] Voice 10: you know the because of the failures of what's happened over these decades um and i don't know

[1:54:06] Voice 10: if there's backtracking on that um you know there could be crazy ideas on how it could have been

[1:54:12] Voice 10: kept rural but they'd be completely they'd be insane um you know um the other thing about uh

[1:54:20] Voice 10: that needs to be mentioned we haven't really spoken about it lately is this um

[1:54:25] Voice 10: is that if they're going to open up the legislation and the undemocratic nature is clear

[1:54:29] Voice 10: like it's there's some clear problems that have been mentioned today um is the is the fact that

[1:54:38] Voice 10: one of the things that hasn't been mentioned is the fact that the mandate clearly states

[1:54:43] Voice 10: states that the island's trust area is to be protected for all of British Columbia so then

[1:54:47] Voice 10: why isn't all of British Columbia paying for it how why has Salt Spring um and you know perhaps

[1:54:53] Voice 10: Gabriel when that's um been on the uh you know the correct words uses that's on the on the hook

[1:55:01] Voice 10: for um for for subsidizing the rest of the trust area and so at this point and do we get into this

[1:55:08] Voice 10: kind of minutiae when speaking to them in the letter i don't know but um clearly salt spring

[1:55:14] Voice 10: has outgrown the island's trust like it no longer fits into the model as we've seen talking about

[1:55:19] Voice 10: the proportional representation aspect and if we were to use that weighted model as in everywhere

[1:55:23] Voice 10: else it would be well clearly it's not going to work at trust council so you know is it that salt

[1:55:30] Voice 10: spring needs to be removed from the island's trust in other islands you know when the island's trust

[1:55:35] Voice 10: was created opted to not join the islands trust and is it time is there you know i feel and i

[1:55:41] Voice 10: would love to get some support on this um is it time to possibly ask salt spring island once again

[1:55:48] Voice 10: do you want to stay in because you we can see what these issues are they're huge

[1:55:52] Voice 10: and and what are the solutions we can't possibly expose them not you know um other than uh you

[1:56:00] Voice 10: for municipality or something without the island's trust but maybe that's maybe we need to maybe

[1:56:07] Voice 10: islands ought to be asked once again we want to remain within the island's trust that's you know

[1:56:12] Voice 10: possibly an idea um okay that's what i've written down okay

[1:56:19] Trustee Gedye: it seems to me that's a local question

[1:56:22] Trustee Gedye: and if you want to work that up in terms of everything that needs to be done on salt spring

[1:56:26] Trustee Gedye: to try again then you know you get some homework

[1:56:31] Voice 10: to do well well possibly other islands of this

[1:56:34] Trustee Gedye: committee and the recommendations it seems to me that what we're talking about is a question

[1:56:39] Trustee Gedye: of structure and how to make the the federation uh work you

[1:56:45] Voice 10: know that's what i'm suggesting

[1:56:46] Voice 10: okay because maybe it will help the federation work if there's these this good behemoth of

[1:56:51] Voice 10: salt spring island possibly gabriela maybe there's others that um are completely it's not

[1:56:58] Voice 10: working the situation is not clearly not working and should these islands be asked once again and

[1:57:04] Voice 10: as the mandate has been staying for 50 years that is the island's trust area is to be protected for

[1:57:09] Voice 10: all um okay british colombians why aren't every why isn't all of bc paying all right and i don't

[1:57:17] Voice 10: if that's clear at all but it seems clear to me thank you trustee bernardo uh

[1:57:23] Voice 9: thank you yeah um

[1:57:26] Voice 9: i want to harken back to the the point that you made before judy about um you know wanting to

[1:57:32] Voice 9: focus on the uniqueness and for trustee sanford made this point as well which is emphatically

[1:57:37] Voice 9: actually which is that um in order to get the province's attention we need to focus on on those

[1:57:42] Voice 9: things that make the island's trust unique yeah that's a that's absolutely true and i i think

[1:57:49] Voice 9: there's a lot there to work with and i would say prominent among those and and is exceptionally

[1:57:55] Voice 9: persuasive is the fact and i go back to what i said before 27 first nations there's no other body

[1:58:04] Voice 9: that i'm aware of that has that degree of exposure to the big question that hangs over this province

[1:58:13] Voice 9: uh that's why i say that we've got tremendous potential here if it's done right uh to be uh

[1:58:20] Voice 9: you know, the forum, where the real solutions get resolved, not just for us, but potentially for the

[1:58:26] Voice 9: rest of the province in terms of mechanism. It's an opportunity. So I would certainly want to

[1:58:32] Voice 9: emphasize that part of it. The other point I wanted to make was to go back to something that

[1:58:37] Voice 9: Trustee Middleton pointed out, which is all our various problems, what they add up to,

[1:58:45] Voice 9: in part is or they manifest as a lack of leadership and that's not any one person's

[1:58:52] Voice 9: fault that's not i think i do believe that's a structural issue that we actually have to address

[1:58:58] Voice 9: and you know i was going on before about you know the three top points and i think i would

[1:59:02] Voice 9: want to add the fourth as a fourth one that we have there's a technical structural aspect to

[1:59:09] Voice 9: this the executive committee has a limited set of responsibilities of oversight responsibilities

[1:59:13] Voice 9: under the Act. That's been supplemented over the years by a tremendous amount of

[1:59:18] Voice 9: operational responsibilities that have been delegated by the Trust Council. But what

[1:59:24] Voice 9: executive doesn't have and what the Act doesn't provide for in any respect is the authority to

[1:59:32] Voice 9: exercise executive leadership for Trust Council. And by that, I mean, there's no one who's

[1:59:38] Voice 9: is responsible for setting priorities for a trust council or for setting the agenda.

[1:59:44] Voice 9: It's a legislature without a guiding mind.

[1:59:47] Voice 9: And I have no idea how to resolve that because it does intersect with the whole democratic

[1:59:51] Voice 9: representation dilemma.

[1:59:53] Voice 9: And certainly in the current structure, it would be a mistake to just sort of like do

[1:59:57] Voice 9: a Band-Aid fix and give a tempting.

[2:00:00] Voice 9: give the executive committee the power to set the priorities that that would be a precursor i think

[2:00:05] Voice 9: bloody revolution and problems because executive again it's not really democratic in the sense of

[2:00:12] Voice 9: being representative of the trust area as a whole so we do have this complex problem that adds up to

[2:00:18] Voice 9: a structural lack of executive leadership and i i think trustee middleton is right that we

[2:00:24] Voice 9: That may be something that the letter needs to lead

[2:00:29] Voice 9: to a conclusion that includes that.

[2:00:33] Voice 9: And finally, just very briefly,

[2:00:34] Voice 9: with respect to the points that Trustee Harris

[2:00:37] Voice 9: is making about withdrawing from the Islands Trust,

[2:00:39] Voice 9: I'm gonna point out that that's a discussion

[2:00:42] Voice 9: of a potential solution.

[2:00:44] Voice 9: And I think there's a kind of an emerging consensus here

[2:00:47] Voice 9: is that we don't want, it's politically prudent

[2:00:51] Voice 9: to avoid proposing any solutions at all.

[2:00:55] Voice 9: We want to present the province with the dilemma, because whatever we propose or whatever ideas that we have are things that require a skill set and expertise and resources to fill them out that we don't have.

[2:01:14] Voice 9: So I want to reiterate the prudence of avoiding talking about any kind of resolution or any kind of solutions to these various problems.

[2:01:23] Voice 9: let's state the the difficulty of the problems and then when the consultation process starts

[2:01:29] Voice 9: that's when we start uh talking about solutions thank you thank you

[2:01:35] Voice 7: trustee peterson yeah i just

[2:01:38] Voice 7: want to agree with a lot of what uh trustee bernardo just said and in particular um one of

[2:01:44] Voice 7: the unique challenges uh as he as he elucidated there is the number of first nations in that in

[2:01:51] Voice 7: the trust area um that is there is no other jurisdiction um that has so many first nations

[2:02:01] Voice 7: with with interests in their within their jurisdiction so that's huge i think that's

[2:02:07] Voice 7: really important and just uh just a brief point on um uh when we talk money of course the bigger

[2:02:16] Voice 7: islands contribute larger sums but just a caution in terms of trying to use that

[2:02:25] Voice 7: as an argument the the immediate counter is that the model is exactly the same

[2:02:31] Voice 7: it's so much per person of population and it's so much on the land the land

[2:02:37] Voice 7: parcels so that's it's just not a fruitful argument in terms of fairness

[2:02:44] Voice 7: uh it's going to be countered that way i just wanted to point that out i've had that discussion

[2:02:50] Voice 7: before and and that's always the answer every every person so much per head uh so much per

[2:02:57] Voice 7: assessed value with

[2:03:00] Trustee Gedye: respect to the the um the number of first nations that were um closest

[2:03:05] Trustee Gedye: neighbors um you know i see that as the the biggest opportunity so that we're on the ground

[2:03:12] Trustee Gedye: we're frontline we're you know setting up protocol agreements we're talking to people in terms of

[2:03:18] Trustee Gedye: you know how do we how do we move things shift things get things um turned around and and you

[2:03:25] Trustee Gedye: know it's the um figuring out how the how to do the relationship building and doing it well

[2:03:32] Trustee Gedye: so that um you know we can maybe be the model for other areas and um you know in terms of trying to

[2:03:39] Trustee Gedye: figure out um on Bowen uh what I would really like to see is enormous amounts of money for um

[2:03:46] Trustee Gedye: archaeological mapping and just you know it hasn't been done it's been avoided um there's a couple of

[2:03:53] Trustee Gedye: little hints and you know I'd really like to have um you know the community that's been wiped out for

[2:04:01] Trustee Gedye: a million reasons it's like there's there's little hints of evidence that um it was if not

[2:04:12] Trustee Gedye: populated year-round certainly widely used and you know i'd really like to get that documented

[2:04:20] Trustee Gedye: so that we were working within the context of of you know not not any more people saying um you

[2:04:27] Trustee Gedye: know there's no evidence that there was a permanent settlement and it's like that wasn't the nature

[2:04:32] Trustee Gedye: of the the culture and it wasn't you know there's no real um evidence for that you know in terms of

[2:04:39] Trustee Gedye: wooden structures burning down and whatever so um i'd also like to figure out how to if we're not

[2:04:45] Trustee Gedye: equipped what do we um if we're not equipped to do the job well but we are well situated then how do

[2:04:53] Trustee Gedye: we ask for capacity building and i think that ties into the funding question as well um anyway i think

[2:05:01] Trustee Gedye: that um you know as we make friends in our closest neighbors and we try to figure out how to get along

[2:05:06] Trustee Gedye: and make this all work better then you know i think we're in a really good position

[2:05:13] Trustee Gedye: with with all of those um numbers of of different peoples in such a nice enclosed small area with

[2:05:20] Trustee Gedye: all the moats around us sorry uh director mobs and we're coming up to 11 20.

[2:05:28] Voice 2: just a brief comment as

[2:05:30] Voice 2: as we work through this discussion and the others.

[2:05:33] Voice 2: I believe there's a regional district

[2:05:35] Voice 2: that has 54 nations in their area that they're working with.

[2:05:40] Voice 2: And there might be a few other regional districts

[2:05:41] Voice 2: numbers similar to ours.

[2:05:43] Voice 2: It doesn't mean it's not an argument we can make.

[2:05:46] Voice 2: I think we just need to be careful about making statements

[2:05:48] Voice 2: without checking some of the facts behind them.

[2:05:51] Trustee Gedye: Point.

[2:05:53] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stamford.

[2:05:55] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you.

[2:05:56] Trustee Stamford: um i i think another unique um aspect to the trust uh that we can bank on is the alice trust

[2:06:06] Trustee Stamford: conservancy um and how it holds land for all of british columbians um that is an aspect that is

[2:06:16] Trustee Stamford: not found anywhere else for good or bad i'm not judging it but um it is something that

[2:06:24] Trustee Stamford: that we could look at how we approach funding for um keep in mind with with the funding issue it

[2:06:33] Trustee Stamford: also they are looking at overlap for the regional districts that do get funding for the services

[2:06:39] Trustee Stamford: that you get on your islands um and whether it's adequate funding for your specific needs that's

[2:06:46] Trustee Stamford: another question so um how that is described it's it's really important to be careful on that one

[2:06:55] Trustee Stamford: um so that's about it

[2:06:58] Trustee Gedye: christy patrick well

[2:07:01] Trustee Patrick: i think related to what you just said trustee getty was

[2:07:04] Trustee Patrick: um the the province did give us 150 000 but over five years with you know that's less than five

[2:07:14] Trustee Patrick: $5,000 per Indigenous governing body to work on building these relationships. And I think that's

[2:07:20] Trustee Patrick: a hard fact that sits there. And it's completely inadequate money for the job that's facing us.

[2:07:28] Trustee Patrick: I think another, Trustee Bernardo talked about leadership and setting priorities, but we have

[2:07:36] Trustee Patrick: no way of, and there's no mechanisms for establishing priorities across the multi-jurisdictions

[2:07:43] Trustee Patrick: that are operating in the same geography so with our regional districts and others we all have

[2:07:48] Trustee Patrick: independent methods we all set our own independent priorities and we work away without any way of

[2:07:54] Trustee Patrick: working together um for the betterment of these islands um and those are just things that are

[2:08:00] Trustee Patrick: missing at some point trustee getty if we're when we're ready i'm happy to make a motion that

[2:08:06] Trustee Patrick: to strike a working group to work on this but uh when you're ready thanks

[2:08:11] Trustee Gedye: okay trustee harris

[2:08:15] Voice 10: Yeah, sure. That sounds great. I just wanted to thank Trustee Bernardo for

[2:08:18] Voice 10: speaking about solutions at this point in the game. But I'm happy to hear that it seems to be clear

[2:08:24] Voice 10: that Section 3, the mandate at this point, is claiming that Daniels Trust Area is to be

[2:08:33] Voice 10: protected for all of BC. So one of the questions that we can pose rather than a solution is,

[2:08:38] Voice 10: it's a very simple one, why isn't the rest of BC paying for it? And then they could draw their

[2:08:44] Voice 10: there are conclusions as to the unproportional end of product representation

[2:08:48] Voice 10: aspect and certain islands paying more than others.

[2:08:52] Voice 10: Although there may be arguments as to it being fair.

[2:08:55] Voice 10: I'm not very certain how that's included from John C, but anyway, great.

[2:09:00] Voice 10: Thank you.

[2:09:03] Voice 13: All right.

[2:09:08] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo, when you're saying that the executive leadership,

[2:09:13] Trustee Gedye: is that,

[2:09:14] Trustee Gedye: would it help in terms of all the work that's going on with the strategic and

[2:09:18] Trustee Gedye: corporate planning in terms of having the priorities of the organization worked out

[2:09:24] Trustee Gedye: through that function? Is that not part of that whole exercise?

[2:09:31] Voice 9: It might be. I think it can

[2:09:33] Voice 9: certainly help in terms of focusing the organization. But part of that is the difficulty is

[2:09:43] Voice 9: we don't know how it's going to work out. And there's going to be a difficulty in the sense

[2:09:49] Voice 9: that at some point there has to be a discussion among trustees about um value for money cost

[2:09:57] Voice 9: benefit you can't have everything you want i mean that's what planning is all about i mean

[2:10:02] Voice 9: our budgets every year reflect this inability to to make decisions and i don't know i mean the

[2:10:09] Voice 9: corporate planning is an attempt

[2:10:11] Voice 15: to

[2:10:12] Voice 9: get through that i don't know i don't you know it's probably

[2:10:15] Voice 9: going to help to some extent but i'm skeptical about whether it's going to be the complete answer

[2:10:19] Voice 9: but having said that it's like it's not as if uh there is an obvious fix i mean under the current

[2:10:28] Voice 9: structure it's very hard to see how you could get an executive function that was regarded as

[2:10:33] Voice 9: legitimate by people so it's a problem

[2:10:36] Trustee Gedye: sorry in in terms of your argument what you're saying was

[2:10:39] Trustee Gedye: is that the legislation provides for a certain structure

[2:10:44] Trustee Gedye: in terms of the executive committee,

[2:10:47] Trustee Gedye: and we've delegated other powers to the executive committee,

[2:10:50] Trustee Gedye: but the issue has been that we struggle over priorities

[2:10:57] Trustee Gedye: and framing the agenda.

[2:10:59] Trustee Gedye: So if that's the problem,

[2:11:01] Trustee Gedye: one of the things that we've been doing

[2:11:02] Trustee Gedye: since the governance review

[2:11:04] Trustee Gedye: and since the formation of the governance committee,

[2:11:07] Trustee Gedye: although we haven't been doing the work

[2:11:08] Trustee Gedye: it's a subcommittee of financial planning is to work on and executive committee now with strategic

[2:11:14] Trustee Gedye: but to work on that whole bundle of issues so yes it's a problem and you know if if the counter

[2:11:22] Trustee Gedye: argument is that you're not dealing with your internal stuff this is one that we've been working

[2:11:26] Trustee Gedye: on pretty heavily so we don't know where it's going to go and we don't know if it's going to be

[2:11:32] Trustee Gedye: you know the answer to all of our questions but if the criticism is that we're not dealing with

[2:11:37] Trustee Gedye: our own house first internally that's one that we have been working on yes

[2:11:41] Voice 9: and it's definitely

[2:11:42] Voice 9: worth referring to uh in this exercise to say look we're addressing this leadership issue in

[2:11:47] Voice 9: some fashion but it's not enough yeah

[2:11:49] Trustee Gedye: and um trustee stamford i think that that's a really

[2:11:54] Trustee Gedye: really good point that you raised in terms of the conservancy i think that the accumulation of assets

[2:11:59] Trustee Gedye: if i had those assets i could go to the bank and get one heck of a mortgage right so that's

[2:12:05] Trustee Gedye: something that's been accumulated to the benefit of the province right it's not necessarily to the

[2:12:12] Trustee Gedye: benefit of the trust it requires a whole bunch of work and programs and costs and all the rest of it

[2:12:18] Trustee Gedye: and it's entirely for the benefit of the province and all the people in it and that's you know just

[2:12:23] Trustee Gedye: at the very least we should be getting funding from the province to help pay for all of the

[2:12:29] Trustee Gedye: important work that the um conservancy is doing but that's one argument i think big argument for

[2:12:36] Trustee Gedye: funding be interesting to get into all the other arguments we could raise for funding um but we are

[2:12:45] Trustee Gedye: running out of time it's coming up to 11 30 so um we want um and there's my alarm for 11 30 we want

[2:12:53] Trustee Gedye: We want to have a working group. We want to put something together in terms of an RFD. We want to look at the rest of the agenda and make sure that that's all covered off. So we've got a half an hour left. Do we work through any more of these points in terms of identifying some of the problems?

[2:13:15] Trustee Gedye: I think we've covered a lot of it in this discussion and in many others that we've had.

[2:13:23] Trustee Gedye: Is there any more that anything else that people can think of to raise with respect to any of these six items?

[2:13:32] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris?

[2:13:35] Voice 10: No, I don't have anything else to raise.

[2:13:36] Voice 10: I would really like to be part of a working group.

[2:13:39] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[2:13:41] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Gavereau?

[2:13:46] Voice 5: I just wanted to highlight about Indigenous representation.

[2:13:50] Voice 5: The Act doesn't provide for Indigenous representation in our decision-making, and that means that Indigenous perspectives and knowledge are not systematically included in our governance and our planning, and that there's no provision.

[2:14:12] Voice 5: vision, that means that there's also no great indigenous knowledge and stewardship practices

[2:14:17] Voice 5: into environmental and land use planning. Yeah, that means that we're basically overlooking

[2:14:28] Voice 5: a wealth of understanding and knowledge from our communities. I think that item D,

[2:14:34] Voice 5: the alignment with decision-making processes and structures, I think that if we're getting

[2:14:39] Voice 5: an outcome or any type of review for any of the other items on that list i think that item d

[2:14:46] Voice 5: um would be the most important one to satisfy because i think it would determine the outcome

[2:14:52] Voice 5: of any of item a b c or e or f thank you

[2:15:03] Trustee Gedye: okay so then in terms of all of the trying to simplify it

[2:15:13] Trustee Gedye: and make it so that it works as opposed to coming up against all of the problems

[2:15:17] Trustee Gedye: and all of the complexities um i you know i'd be interested in in um thinking about

[2:15:30] Trustee Gedye: dealing with that one um and getting digging into it yeah all right so uh trustee patrick

[2:15:39] Trustee Gedye: you had a motion yeah

[2:15:42] Trustee Patrick: no i think i think it's there and i think just to follow up on what you

[2:15:46] Trustee Patrick: you just said trustee getty i think if we stick with sort of that concept we talked about we just

[2:15:51] Trustee Patrick: need some illustrative examples and i think if

[2:15:53] Trustee Patrick: we frame it that way that we're not trying you know

[2:15:56] Trustee Patrick: to you know to destroy what we're talking about we just need to give some examples of these are big

[2:16:05] Trustee Patrick: issues each and every one of them um okay i did have a motion i did send it to laurie

[2:16:10] Trustee Patrick: before someone seconds it let's let's work on the wordsmithing i'll make the motion and then

[2:16:17] Trustee Patrick: like i said don't second it we'll play with it or so i move that the governance committee strike

[2:16:25] Trustee Patrick: a working group to draft the request for decision that includes the letter to the province for

[2:16:29] Trustee Patrick: consideration of a special meeting to be scheduled in august so don't second it look at the wording

[2:16:37] Trustee Patrick: does that make sense does it need clarity are we open to a special meeting in august

[2:16:43] Trustee Patrick: so we don't consume our september 9th meeting trustee peterson um

[2:16:52] Voice 7: i i think this is good and

[2:16:54] Voice 7: it uh i'm glad uh trustee patrick that he included the consideration of a special meeting

[2:17:00] Voice 7: in august because that was the next thing i was gonna suggest you

[2:17:08] Trustee Gedye: guys are wrecking my august

[2:17:10] Trustee Gedye: we take a my guess is

[2:17:12] Trustee Gedye: racked yeah council takes a whole month off and now i've got however many

[2:17:17] Trustee Gedye: caohc and plus well you know whatever okay because trustee bernardo yeah

[2:17:23] Voice 9: i um i i like it i i think

[2:17:26] Voice 9: it uh it pretty much does the job i might have one grammatical quibble which is it says includes

[2:17:32] Voice 9: includes the letter well i think it probably should be a letter i'm fine with that

[2:17:39] Voice 15: but apart

[2:17:40] Voice 9: from that i think it's concise it gets to the point and as trustee peterson pointed out this

[2:17:46] Voice 9: committee has to review all this stuff and nod over before it goes to trust council so we we

[2:17:51] Voice 9: just need a special meeting in august to deal with this okay

[2:17:56] Trustee Gedye: so um we've got to move uh trustee

[2:18:03] Trustee Gedye: patrick has moved it have we got a seconder

[2:18:05] Voice 9: i'll second trustee peterson who

[2:18:08] Trustee Gedye: said that two

[2:18:09] Trustee Gedye: microphones open

[2:18:09] Voice 9: peterson all

[2:18:11] Trustee Gedye: right any more discussion on the motion all right uh any

[2:18:25] Trustee Gedye: objection to asking the question at this point not shaking of heads all right so question all

[2:18:33] Trustee Gedye: those in favour?

[2:18:42] Voice 13: I'll put my hand up.

[2:18:47] Trustee Gedye: Okay. Director Marlar, are you counting?

[2:18:55] Voice 8: Yeah, sorry. I see five hands up, six hands up.

[2:18:59] Voice 15: All right.

[2:19:00] Voice 8: Hands down.

[2:19:06] Trustee Gedye: Any opposed?

[2:19:10] Trustee Gedye: I'm not opposed.

[2:19:12] Trustee Gedye: Okay, that carries. Thank you. All right. So, special meeting in August.

[2:19:19] Trustee Gedye: um i'm going to suggest that we um ask staff to do a doodle poll to try and find a date um for

[2:19:28] Trustee Gedye: um i don't know trust trustee peterson uh

[2:19:36] Voice 7: the the date's a good item but of course we also need to

[2:19:39] Voice 7: strike the working group

[2:19:40] Trustee Gedye: yep i haven't forgotten but i'm just getting rid of part of this

[2:19:46] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo?

[2:19:48] Voice 9: Just a quick comment that the working group of volunteers is we have to keep in

[2:19:55] Voice 9: mind that the no quorum rule like I'm sure there's lots of interest in it but we're limited we can't

[2:20:00] Voice 9: have a majority of the committee on it I don't think well I couldn't be wrong about that maybe

[2:20:05] Voice 9: Director Marler can comment on that but I'm a little anxious that we not screw that up thanks.

[2:20:12] Voice 9: Thanks.

[2:20:12] Voice 13: Director Marler, do we need to

[2:20:13] Trustee Gedye: worry about quorum for a working group?

[2:20:16] Voice 8: No, it's just a subgroup of the committee, so it should be okay.

[2:20:23] Voice 9: All right.

[2:20:23] Voice 9: All right, that's fine then.

[2:20:29] Trustee Gedye: So, can we agree to ask staff to do a doodle poll in terms of available dates?

[2:20:39] Trustee Gedye: Any objection to that plan?

[2:20:40] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[2:20:41] Trustee Gedye: So, then who would like to sit on this committee that will be canvassed for available dates?

[2:20:48] Trustee Gedye: okay so i've got uh director harris and patrick and bernardo okay and i'd like

[2:20:57] Trustee Gedye: middleton okay we've got the whole freaking community

[2:21:03] Trustee Gedye: i'm interested as well so that's uh that's five out of seven come on kate louise what's the matter

[2:21:10] Trustee Gedye: i'm

[2:21:11] Voice 7: in i'm interested but i'm trying just to be realistic about my capacity so

[2:21:15] Voice 7: sorry what

[2:21:17] Voice 3: he said

[2:21:20] Voice 8: it's David here sorry I misunderstood your question with respect to quorum you don't

[2:21:24] Voice 8: need a quorum for subcommittee but if you have a quorum of your committee then you actually are

[2:21:29] Voice 8: the committee yeah

[2:21:31] Voice 9: that was yeah yeah

[2:21:32] Voice 8: I was

[2:21:33] Voice 9: looking at it from yeah

[2:21:34] Voice 8: my apologies so if you

[2:21:36] Voice 8: have uh more than uh the quorum which are before then uh you would have to do it as uh as the

[2:21:44] Voice 8: committee so

[2:21:47] Voice 9: does this mean does this mean the working group has to be limited to three people

[2:21:51] Voice 8: or four well no four

[2:21:53] Voice 8: is the majority

[2:21:54] Voice 9: four isn't yeah

[2:21:55] Voice 9: so four is a quorum so it has to be one less

[2:21:59] Voice 9: right

[2:21:59] Voice 8: yeah if you don't want it to be a quarter

[2:22:01] Voice 9: so three a

[2:22:04] Voice 7: question for mr marler uh we have two

[2:22:08] Voice 7: uh although one is not here today though but we have two ex-officio members um who do not count

[2:22:14] Voice 7: out towards forum so if either of them were part of that working group then it could be three uh

[2:22:21] Voice 7: voting members plus an ex-officio is that correct yeah i'd agree with that okay just wanted to check

[2:22:28] Voice 7: on that not not volunteering you lisa but just wanted to make that the process clear that sounded

[2:22:34] Trustee Gedye: like you were volunteering her well

[2:22:36] Voice 7: kind of volunteering

[2:22:37] Trustee Gedye: not volunteering all right so um

[2:22:41] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[2:22:43] Trustee Gedye: Count me in.

[2:22:44] Trustee Gedye: Yeah.

[2:22:47] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[2:22:48] Trustee Gedye: So we've got Director Harris, Director Patrick, Director Bernardo,

[2:22:55] Trustee Gedye: Director Middleton, myself, and reluctantly, Director Gavreau.

[2:23:00] Voice 9: You're promoting us.

[2:23:01] Trustee Gedye: We're

[2:23:02] Voice 9: trustees, not directors.

[2:23:03] Trustee Gedye: I know.

[2:23:04] Trustee Gedye: So of the five of us who are voting trustees,

[2:23:09] Trustee Gedye: we need two of us to drop off.

[2:23:13] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton.

[2:23:15] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I'm happy to just give edit suggestions following the work of the working group.

[2:23:21] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[2:23:22] Trustee Middleton: That's planned by me.

[2:23:26] Voice 13: Anybody else?

[2:23:32] Trustee Gedye: Director Mobs.

[2:23:33] Trustee Gedye: Oh, CAO Mobs.

[2:23:35] Trustee Gedye: Sorry.

[2:23:37] Voice 2: I'm both, so either works at the moment.

[2:23:41] Voice 2: I just wanted to clarify this.

[2:23:43] Voice 2: My expectation is that there's staff support for this working group in the same way that

[2:23:47] Voice 2: the FCC Working Group for Corporate Planning is structured.

[2:23:49] Voice 2: structured is that the understanding here say

[2:23:54] Trustee Gedye: that again there'd be staff allocated to help

[2:23:57] Voice 2: staff support for the working group um so staff can attend the working group meetings to you know

[2:24:03] Voice 2: provide insights or support um as we can all

[2:24:07] Voice 13: right is that

[2:24:07] Trustee Gedye: an issue in terms of resources

[2:24:13] Trustee Gedye: it would be wonderful

[2:24:14] Voice 2: staff resources um we we would need to you know consider it um when we're

[2:24:19] Voice 2: looking at um sort of scheduled meetings meetings of the working group um and how much time is

[2:24:25] Voice 2: dedicated to that um i just wanted to understand for clarity that it would be my expectation that

[2:24:30] Voice 2: staff would be helping the working group in the same way that it is for the fcc working group

[2:24:33] Voice 2: um just wanted to make sure that that was similar and shared understanding here that would be my

[2:24:39] Trustee Gedye: hope

[2:24:39] Voice 2: i think it's needed yep

[2:24:41] Trustee Gedye: trustee

[2:24:42] Voice 14: bernardo yes

[2:24:44] Voice 9: i think it's very helpful for uh ceo mobs to

[2:24:47] Voice 9: to make that point in the sense that although this is a political document and it rests

[2:24:53] Voice 9: on the trustees to put this together, the point that you made earlier, actually, is

[2:24:58] Voice 9: I think that's where the focus is on the support.

[2:25:02] Voice 9: Staff can provide support, frankly, by copy editing whatever we come up with and making

[2:25:07] Voice 9: sure we don't step into the glue by misrepresenting or making inadvertent mistakes with respect

[2:25:12] Voice 9: to the facts and that kind of thing.

[2:25:14] Voice 9: um so having that um review component from the staff i think that's probably the the full extent

[2:25:23] Voice 9: of the support that we need but um certainly i think that would be helpful as to meetings i'm

[2:25:31] Voice 9: not sure i'm not sure the working group we're still working on who's in

[2:25:35] Voice 9: the group yeah

[2:25:37] Trustee Gedye: okay

[2:25:38] Trustee Gedye: harris patrick bernardo and myself draw straws how

[2:25:48] Voice 13: do we do straws over zoom sorry

[2:26:00] Voice 12: I

[2:26:01] Voice 3: can't hear you.

[2:26:06] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stamford, could you repeat that?

[2:26:09] Trustee Stamford: I wasn't speaking, but you've got

[2:26:13] Trustee Stamford: two people from Salt Spring on the committee. Would one of them be willing to drop off?

[2:26:28] Voice 13: Good question.

[2:26:34] Trustee Patrick: I'd like to participate. I was involved in the first round and intimately

[2:26:40] Trustee Patrick: involved so i'd like to stick through on this round if i can christy

[2:26:48] Voice 12: harris yeah i'm pretty

[2:26:53] Voice 10: eager to uh see what's um going on with this letter and uh and be involved in it so i don't

[2:26:59] Voice 10: i don't know

[2:27:01] Voice 10: what to do wait

[2:27:02] Trustee Gedye: we're all going to get to see what's going on this is the actual

[2:27:06] Trustee Gedye: writing and pulling you know stuff together well

[2:27:12] Voice 10: i guess my concern is that yeah i'd love to be

[2:27:16] Voice 10: involved in the process but um so it's certain that we can't have four people is that is that

[2:27:23] Voice 10: basically what's being said that's

[2:27:27] Trustee Gedye: my understanding sorry trustee patrick can

[2:27:29] Trustee Patrick: i make a suggestion i

[2:27:30] Trustee Patrick: mean one of the things for this for the group that will do the writing is we want to hear from

[2:27:34] Trustee Patrick: everyone everyone's ideas so i would hope that anyone would submit directly to the to the working

[2:27:40] Trustee Patrick: group their their ideas for you know for the content so that uh we

[2:27:47] Trustee Gedye: are gathering that would

[2:27:49] Trustee Gedye: would be my next suggestion in terms of getting all of the potential we've talked a little bit

[2:27:55] Trustee Gedye: and we've generated some ideas in terms of all of the problems and how they manifest themselves and

[2:28:00] Trustee Gedye: i'd like to people to think on that and then report in trustee bernardo well

[2:28:06] Voice 9: there may be a

[2:28:07] Voice 9: way through this uh ticket because everybody seems to want to put their teeth into this thing and not

[2:28:12] Voice 9: let go um you could actually have more than four members or voting members on the working group

[2:28:19] Voice 9: if no more than three people attend any given meeting so you know uh uh we can have some kind

[2:28:31] Voice 9: of offset situation where you know one person's going to drop off at any given meeting you know

[2:28:36] Voice 9: and we work it out from meeting to meeting who volunteers to step off or whether or not they're

[2:28:41] Voice 9: interested in that kind of stuff but i'm doing this okay not as an exercise in advocacy but an

[2:28:48] Voice 9: exercise in technical drafting we've heard i mean whatever comes out of this working group has to be

[2:28:54] Voice 9: representative i think of the of the drift of where this discussion is going today and there's

[2:28:58] Voice 9: a lot of concrete stuff that's come out um so anyhow it's a it's a it's a technical drafting

[2:29:04] Voice 9: exercise so even participants you know they may book off for one meeting and then come back to it

[2:29:10] Voice 9: if it comes to that

[2:29:11] Voice 13: christy middleton yeah

[2:29:15] Trustee Middleton: thanks for just just a procedural question i guess so

[2:29:19] Trustee Middleton: So my understanding that the working group is to prepare drafts of a RFD and a letter to the province, which are then brought forth to the committee meeting, which I think you said is September 9th.

[2:29:33] Trustee Middleton: Is that correct?

[2:29:34] Trustee Middleton: Well,

[2:29:34] Trustee Gedye: there's a special meeting in August, and then there's another governance committee meeting September 9th, and then there's trust council meetings September, the second last week of September.

[2:29:46] Trustee Gedye: September.

[2:29:47] Trustee Middleton: So if we receive as the whole committee in September, September 9, the RFD, and the draft letter, we endorse it as the governance committee, and then that

[2:30:00] Trustee Middleton: goes on the agenda for trust council um as an rfd later in september is that correct

[2:30:06] Trustee Gedye: that's my understanding okay oh sorry i

[2:30:11] Voice 7: i was anticipating that we would be receiving the draft

[2:30:14] Voice 7: at the august special meeting um and so that we would have uh even that extra window of time yeah

[2:30:24] Voice 13: Yeah. I'm not sure

[2:30:34] Trustee Gedye: whose voice that is, but we're getting some background.

[2:30:36] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, Trustee Middleton.

[2:30:38] Trustee Middleton: Yeah. Thank you, Chair.

[2:30:39] Trustee Middleton: I'm just wondering if it sounds to me like informal subgroups can arrange themselves around drafting that then are presented to a meeting in August,

[2:30:50] Trustee Middleton: which if that working group is to then endorse what goes well, I guess I guess it's not then endorsing what goes forward to Trust Council,

[2:31:00] Trustee Middleton: because that's still uh what's reserved for our business item in on september 9th but i'm

[2:31:06] Trustee Middleton: wondering could not the meeting in august then simply be a regular meeting um and uh those who

[2:31:13] Trustee Middleton: wish to uh do some drafts in preparation for the august meeting organized informally as groups or

[2:31:20] Trustee Middleton: not uh can do so and then we work on we i guess we've given ourselves then two meetings to to

[2:31:26] Trustee Middleton: to work on the, well, I think the key being the narrative forcefulness of the letter

[2:31:33] Trustee Middleton: that is presented. And I understand that's going to come out if one author or a couple of authors

[2:31:40] Trustee Middleton: obviously get their hands to it, but it sounds like that work might need to be done informally

[2:31:46] Trustee Middleton: prior to the meeting in August, if that's a viable suggestion.

[2:31:53] Trustee Gedye: If we've got another two or

[2:31:54] Trustee Gedye: three hours in august then i would really like to have some outline at least a good solid draft

[2:32:01] Trustee Gedye: that maybe has been vetted by you know created and then vetted a few times by whoever's on the

[2:32:08] Trustee Gedye: a working group and then pull it apart and polish it and and change things and fiddle with it

[2:32:15] Trustee Gedye: in august have something to work with and then have the final um this is okay so we've heard

[2:32:22] Trustee Gedye: all the comments this is what we've redrafted this is what we think is a good final and can

[2:32:27] Trustee Gedye: we endorse this and send this on at the september meeting and then we get back into all the other

[2:32:33] Trustee Gedye: stuff that we've put off on our agenda at the rest of the working session in september trustee harris

[2:32:43] Voice 10: um yeah being it's such an informal group um as far as the working group goes does it need this

[2:32:49] Voice 10: in the GFC needs much attention.

[2:32:52] Voice 10: Can we not just hash this out by email

[2:32:54] Voice 10: and figure out when it would meet and who would meet?

[2:32:58] Trustee Gedye: That may be the process, but at this point,

[2:33:00] Trustee Gedye: we've got an issue with respect to the numbers.

[2:33:03] Trustee Gedye: So if there's four, that's a quorum,

[2:33:06] Trustee Gedye: and then you have to have all the different things

[2:33:09] Trustee Gedye: of formal meetings.

[2:33:10] Trustee Gedye: So setting up agendas and keeping minutes

[2:33:14] Trustee Gedye: and all the rest of it.

[2:33:17] Trustee Gedye: CAO Mobs.

[2:33:18] Trustee Gedye: um

[2:33:21] Voice 2: so yeah just to your point sure getty i think you know we do need to iron out the membership of

[2:33:26] Voice 2: of the working group we've got uh more trustees interested than can sit on the group uh maybe

[2:33:32] Voice 2: prudent to take a vote if no one's wanting to step down um as to who's going to be on that group

[2:33:40] Voice 2: the group itself can set their own meetings outside of you know this committee they talk

[2:33:45] Voice 2: to each other and figure that out and then the it'll just be the governance committee special

[2:33:49] Voice 2: special meeting set for August that needs to happen.

[2:33:54] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo?

[2:33:57] Voice 9: Yeah, I think we need to ask ourselves a question here

[2:34:00] Voice 9: about among the volunteers of who's actually interested

[2:34:05] Voice 9: in drafting, which is kind of the mechanical exercise,

[2:34:12] Voice 9: although of course it's, you know,

[2:34:14] Voice 9: the policy part of it's in there too,

[2:34:15] Voice 9: but who's actually interested in the mechanical part

[2:34:18] Voice 9: of drafting, which is kind of a back and forth thing

[2:34:22] Voice 9: Which, to be honest, never works well when you have a lot of fingers in that particular eye, versus wanting to be heard at the preliminary editing stage before something comes to the governance committee for the committee to hash through.

[2:34:38] Voice 9: I'm wondering if there's some mechanism where we can sort of separate the working group into two different bodies that, you know, you've got drafting people, editing people, I don't know.

[2:34:47] Voice 9: But my concern is, you know, to draft any document, you need to have people, if it's

[2:34:54] Voice 9: going to be a group of people doing it, you need people who are, you know, going to roll

[2:35:00] Voice 9: up their sleeves and actually sort of get into the nuts and bolts of it.

[2:35:03] Voice 9: So maybe that's a method to sort of find some way of dividing up the group or something

[2:35:09] Voice 9: like that.

[2:35:11] Trustee Gedye: Kirstie Middleton?

[2:35:15] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[2:35:15] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I understand why it's an important issue for Salt Spring.

[2:35:20] Trustee Middleton: and i could see why neither trustee would want to step down and i don't think we should be asking

[2:35:25] Trustee Middleton: them to do so so i think we need to find another mechanism and as trustee bernardo uh said so

[2:35:32] Trustee Middleton: maybe there's two operational groups here or or we just i understand originally uh trustee bernardo's

[2:35:39] Trustee Middleton: uh intent was obviously to have a group that's efficient and effective and therefore is smaller

[2:35:44] Trustee Middleton: smaller than seven, but if that creates more problems, maybe we just have to deal with

[2:35:49] Trustee Middleton: it and actually have a full committee in a meeting in August and then just figure out

[2:35:57] Trustee Middleton: a way of amalgamating perhaps individual efforts or suggestions in terms of communication prior

[2:36:02] Trustee Middleton: to that meeting.

[2:36:06] Voice 13: Christy Peterson.

[2:36:09] Voice 7: Well, it's either that or we have to elect the members of the working group.

[2:36:14] Trustee Gedye: How do we run an election over Zoom?

[2:36:18] Voice 8: David Marler knows

[2:36:20] Trustee Gedye: David

[2:36:20] Trustee Gedye: yeah

[2:36:21] Voice 8: you can do it you'd have to email

[2:36:24] Voice 8: me your votes and then

[2:36:26] Voice 8: you know the whole

[2:36:28] Voice 8: process for counting them in a scrutiny

[2:36:30] Voice 8: so

[2:36:33] Voice 8: yeah I don't have any great suggestions

[2:36:35] Voice 8: for you I have a major I think

[2:36:38] Voice 8: you know the intent of

[2:36:39] Voice 8: having a subgroup is so that you can get a

[2:36:41] Voice 8: few trustees together to work

[2:36:43] Voice 8: out things draft

[2:36:45] Voice 8: things without having to have a meeting to

[2:36:47] Voice 8: do it so

[2:36:48] Voice 8: So, you know, as soon as you hit quorum, then you need to do it in a meeting.

[2:36:52] Voice 8: I mean, we can certainly do that.

[2:36:53] Voice 8: We can set the meeting up and then you can, you know, spend the afternoon working together on Zoom or in person.

[2:37:02] Voice 8: It's still possible to do it, but it'd be a meeting of the committee.

[2:37:06] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[2:37:06] Voice 8: Yeah, you'd have to have a quorum to make that happen.

[2:37:09] Trustee Gedye: All right. I'm going to suggest there be a vote.

[2:37:10] Trustee Gedye: um lee i'm going to put your name back in and um thank you very much for um declining but uh if

[2:37:20] Trustee Gedye: we're going to go to a vote then everybody that's interested gets to uh to run is that all right

[2:37:24] Trustee Gedye: with you lee um

[2:37:27] Trustee Middleton: i appreciate the sentiment i i just don't know if we want to be uh i'm fearing

[2:37:34] Trustee Middleton: we might risk having some kind of divisiveness at the point in time we really don't need that

[2:37:39] Trustee Middleton: you know what i mean it's like actually having i mean i'm sorry to to take the floor from you

[2:37:44] Trustee Middleton: there chair but i'm wondering if we could just say let's those interested draft something we appoint

[2:37:50] Trustee Middleton: trustee bernardo as editor-in-chief he amalgamates to the uh you know the best of his ability and

[2:37:56] Trustee Middleton: intent a draft and we come back as the whole committee in august to uh to review the review

[2:38:02] Trustee Middleton: the draft and if we run into trouble we use the you know your excellent sharing powers

[2:38:07] Trustee Middleton: I was chair to navigate this forward.

[2:38:12] Trustee Middleton: I'm just thinking that might be the kind of the approach we want to take at

[2:38:16] Trustee Middleton: this point, rather than, you know,

[2:38:19] Trustee Middleton: I understand why there's interest in, in, in, in participating.

[2:38:22] Trustee Middleton: And I think if we can respect that, but still move forward in the, you know,

[2:38:26] Trustee Middleton: respecting trustee Bernardo's desire.

[2:38:28] Trustee Middleton: And I understand that for efficiency,

[2:38:30] Trustee Middleton: then I think that might be the more pragmatic approach, but you know,

[2:38:34] Trustee Middleton: it's just my view.

[2:38:35] Trustee Middleton: i

[2:38:37] Trustee Gedye: disagree with trustee bernardo as the chief editor we've always struggled with

[2:38:41] Trustee Gedye: different versions of things and come up with something in the middle that's satisfies both

[2:38:49] Trustee Gedye: of us but anyway we can we can get to that i suppose all right trustee harris

[2:38:53] Trustee Gedye: well would

[2:38:55] Voice 10: anybody be opposed to having harris patrick and bernardo on the on the um the working group all

[2:39:05] Trustee Gedye: All right. Trustee Peterson.

[2:39:10] Trustee Gedye: I

[2:39:12] Voice 7: think that would depend on whether Trustee Getty is willing to step aside.

[2:39:20] Voice 7: And I would just add that, of course, I would just assume that Trustee Gavreau is in this one way or the other.

[2:39:27] Trustee Gedye: Lucky you.

[2:39:31] Trustee Middleton: So, Chair, if I may, just perhaps the working group is, as Trustee Harris suggested,

[2:39:36] Trustee Middleton: contested but then they forward their product to you and your new role as editor-in-chief of the

[2:39:42] Trustee Middleton: of the product that then gets placed on the agenda for our review in august

[2:39:46] Trustee Gedye: and

[2:39:47] Trustee Middleton: everyone gets a meaningful role i think um right

[2:39:51] Trustee Gedye: we've spent far too much time on this so i

[2:39:53] Trustee Gedye: will um remove my name and uh tristan edelton you've already removed your name so that leaves

[2:40:01] Trustee Gedye: Harris, Patrick, and Bernardo

[2:40:03] Trustee Gedye: to come up with an

[2:40:05] Trustee Gedye: RFD and a

[2:40:07] Trustee Gedye: draft letter

[2:40:08] Trustee Gedye: or draft RFD and a draft letter

[2:40:11] Trustee Gedye: for a working group in

[2:40:13] Trustee Gedye: August.

[2:40:14] Trustee Gedye: And Gavro.

[2:40:17] Voice 9: And let's remember that

[2:40:19] Voice 9: in August, I mean, that's

[2:40:21] Voice 9: where, you know, I don't think there should be any

[2:40:23] Voice 9: editor-in-chief. I mean, this is going to be the product

[2:40:25] Voice 9: of this committee as a whole. That's what August

[2:40:27] Voice 9: is about.

[2:40:28] Voice 9: All right.

[2:40:29] Voice 13: right

[2:40:29] Voice 9: so all

[2:40:32] Trustee Gedye: right um if there's a log jam it makes um i'll um i'll back away i like writing

[2:40:41] Trustee Gedye: and i like wordsmithing but what the heck um trustee peterson uh

[2:40:47] Voice 7: in response to um uh co mobs

[2:40:52] Voice 7: i move that the working group consists of harris patrick bernardo and gavreau second

[2:41:03] Voice 7: second Middleton

[2:41:07] Trustee Gedye: all right any more discussion all those in favor I

[2:41:21] Voice 8: see five hands up all right

[2:41:23] Voice 13: any opposed I

[2:41:29] Voice 8: see one hand up

[2:41:32] Voice 13: carried all

[2:41:36] Trustee Gedye: right so give it your best shot and um figure out when

[2:41:44] Trustee Gedye: and how you want to meet and work on this um what's left in the last five minutes um

[2:41:53] Trustee Gedye: um is our matrix and work schedule so um chair we

[2:42:03] Voice 7: have two items two verbal reports on the agenda

[2:42:06] Trustee Gedye: right so trust remuneration and the corporate planning update um trust cao mobs are you giving

[2:42:15] Trustee Gedye: those verbal reports i

[2:42:17] Voice 2: am happy to do so uh so related to 7.2 which is the trust remuneration

[2:42:23] Voice 2: review I touched on this briefly when we were looking at the follow-up action list

[2:42:26] Voice 2: so the governance committee did request that FPC pass the review of that policy over to the

[2:42:31] Voice 2: governance review FPC has obliged so that work now belongs to this committee at a future date

[2:42:37] Voice 2: the work that FPC has already undertaken related to review that policy will come back to governance

[2:42:42] Voice 2: committee to further the conversation and as I mentioned previously two resolutions that had

[2:42:48] Voice 2: come out of FPC are now on the governance committee follow-up action list so just wanted

[2:42:52] Voice 2: to provide that update that the requested governance committee has been satisfied there

[2:42:58] Trustee Gedye: all right so i expect that will be uh more detail on our agenda in september everybody's

[2:43:04] Trustee Gedye: that work

[2:43:07] Voice 2: is not listed as top priority in the matrix uh so it's not um targeted for september

[2:43:14] Voice 2: uh committee can give direction otherwise but that wasn't the plan at this juncture

[2:43:18] Voice 2: Well,

[2:43:19] Trustee Gedye: it'll possibly come up in terms of, again, the work program items and where we

[2:43:26] Trustee Gedye: place it in the matrix.

[2:43:28] Trustee Gedye: So we'll have a better understanding and then we can place it and decide what the priorities

[2:43:32] Trustee Gedye: are.

[2:43:33] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[2:43:34] Voice 2: Corporate

[2:43:35] Trustee Gedye: planning update?

[2:43:38] Voice 2: Can provide an update there too.

[2:43:40] Voice 2: So the second corporate plan that was currently being worked on was council drafting of a

[2:43:45] Voice 2: strategic plan.

[2:43:45] Voice 2: So everyone was there at Trust Council in June where we had the strategic planning facilitated

[2:43:51] Voice 2: session.

[2:43:52] Voice 2: The next steps at this juncture are for me to continue working with the facilitator and

[2:43:57] Voice 2: the consultant who was at Council to get the strategic plan document itself to a place

[2:44:04] Voice 2: where it makes sense and is reflective of the conversation.

[2:44:08] Voice 2: Staff will be having a look at it and the plan will then be bringing it back to Trust

[2:44:13] Voice 2: Council for formal stamp of approval.

[2:44:14] Voice 2: Once the strategic plan is in place, of course, it's handed over to staff to develop departmental work plans and the process continues from there.

[2:44:22] Voice 2: So that's where things are at right now. We are expecting to have that document ready for Council in September.

[2:44:29] Trustee Gedye: Excellent. All right. Thank you. Any other business? Any new business?

[2:44:40] Trustee Gedye: That may be the request from Sue Ellen.

[2:44:44] Trustee Gedye: And I don't we haven't seen that at all as a committee, right?

[2:44:48] Trustee Gedye: right director mobs okay so that's

[2:44:51] Trustee Gedye: all right so um it's it's in print it has been um a request and

[2:44:59] Trustee Gedye: we'll um add it to the agenda in september for our first look at it and we can decide uh then

[2:45:06] Trustee Gedye: where we want to put it on our work plan all right so um the work program um basically we're

[2:45:20] Trustee Gedye: going to be reporting to the trust committee that we've been working hard on on this um rfd in the

[2:45:26] Trustee Gedye: letter and we'll uh if there's anything more after the the business meeting in september we can report

[2:45:33] Trustee Gedye: on that but um any other comments or suggestions trustee patrick well

[2:45:41] Trustee Patrick: the remuneration um we have

[2:45:44] Trustee Patrick: it in as not urgent and important i know we had discussed that the goal would be to have decisions

[2:45:50] Trustee Patrick: made by the end of this term so that a new term of trustees isn't voting on their own compensation

[2:45:56] Trustee Patrick: so i think that's just reverse engineering from what i know the work that um ceo moms has has

[2:46:03] Trustee Patrick: done to make sure we do it in the right time so that we can get to that place by the end of the

[2:46:08] Trustee Patrick: term yeah

[2:46:09] Trustee Gedye: and i think we at some point had taught work backward from um when the last meeting was

[2:46:16] Trustee Gedye: was in the last at the end of this term and when we had to have something um sorted on this we'll

[2:46:23] Trustee Gedye: we'll figure that out again in terms of the timeline in terms of what our drop dead

[2:46:28] Trustee Gedye: timing would be i think it's next year probably we're going to have to put a considerable amount

[2:46:34] Trustee Gedye: of time into it all right so um we'd have no need the next meeting is presently scheduled

[2:46:43] Trustee Gedye: for September the 9th there's going to be this special meeting sometime in August to work on this

[2:46:50] Trustee Gedye: request to the province and trust committee is September 24th to 26th in Nanaimo so those are

[2:46:57] Trustee Gedye: the the dates in the future um closed meeting there's no need for that or a rise in report so

[2:47:05] Trustee Gedye: at this point right on time um how about a motion to adjourn trustee Bernardo I

[2:47:17] Voice 9: move that we adjourn

[2:47:18] Voice 9: the meeting thank

[2:47:19] Trustee Gedye: you i second

[2:47:21] Trustee Middleton: that thank you thank you

[2:47:23] Trustee Gedye: the trustee middleton anybody opposed

[2:47:26] Trustee Gedye: oh i object let's keep going just kidding thanks everybody

[2:47:30] Trustee Gedye: thank you all take care thanks