Islands Trust Council regular meeting, September 4, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 9: hopefully not too long, but until then I'm going to call us to order and be my

[0:00:06] Voice 9: bid as Vice Chair. So I'd like to call this meeting to order of the Regional

[0:00:14] Voice 9: Planning Committee and first and foremost I'd like to acknowledge that we

[0:00:20] Voice 9: are privileged to meet and do our work on the traditional territories of many

[0:00:28] Voice 9: First Nations around the Salish Sea. I myself am elected trustee on Denman to

[0:00:37] Voice 9: Staic in the traditional territories of the Penlatch people and the Comox First

[0:00:41] Voice 9: Nation. And I'm gonna ask the other trustees to introduce themselves

[0:00:50] Voice 9: briefly. I'll call you as I see you on the on the list. So Trustee Elliott.

[0:00:55] Voice 9: it.

[0:00:57] Trustee Elliott: Good morning, everyone. I'm grateful to be with you all and here on Gabriela Island in

[0:01:03] Trustee Elliott: Sinaimuk First Nation Territory with good Wi-Fi for a miracle for once. Good to see you all.

[0:01:12] Voice 9: Trustee Boland.

[0:01:15] Voice 3: Good morning. I am switching along on the highway towards

[0:01:21] Voice 3: Victoria General. I'm not in any danger, but I'm the trustee for Caterina Island.

[0:01:27] Voice 3: and glad to be with you and support as I can this morning.

[0:01:30] Voice 3: Thank you.

[0:01:33] Voice 9: Thank you, Trustee Bowen, for taking time to be with us

[0:01:37] Voice 9: despite your travels.

[0:01:39] Voice 9: Trustee Graham.

[0:01:41] Voice 11: Good morning, everyone, from sunny Denman Island,

[0:01:44] Voice 11: the traditional home of the Comox and Coast Salish people,

[0:01:47] Voice 11: and looking forward to a productive meeting.

[0:01:51] Voice 11: Very good.

[0:01:54] Voice 9: And Trustee Campbell.

[0:01:59] Voice 7: Trustee Campbell from North Pender Island,

[0:02:01] Voice 7: but actually coming to you from Main Island today.

[0:02:04] Voice 7: because i had to go to work there

[0:02:09] Voice 9: you go and uh at ex officio we have uh trustee luckham

[0:02:12] Voice 9: uh hanging around although currently i don't see him in his frame but

[0:02:17] Voice 9: good morning

[0:02:23] Trustee Luckham: uh calling in from uh thetis island and penelope laxon territory grateful to and

[0:02:29] Trustee Luckham: humbled to be able to work and live in the coach sailor's seat all

[0:02:37] Voice 9: right so we have a couple of

[0:02:42] Voice 9: bits and pieces that have come up i know about in the review of the agenda it seems that there are

[0:02:47] Voice 9: some parts that do need to shift around or potentially be added uh the email here uh so

[0:02:58] Voice 9: i got an email this morning from director sermac that items 7.6 was captured under 7.5 of this

[0:03:08] Voice 9: agenda and thus can be removed uh and sorry you say that you're going to make this recommendation

[0:03:14] Voice 9: I don't know if I'm jumping on your parade here, but if you want to make your recommendations,

[0:03:22] Voice 9: I'll let you do that.

[0:03:25] Voice 12: Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.

[0:03:26] Voice 12: It is totally your purview and I would be jumping on your parade.

[0:03:30] Voice 12: Just merely that 7.6 was created as a stopgap measure when we heard from Trustee Elliott

[0:03:36] Voice 12: she wished to do a presentation.

[0:03:38] Voice 12: Since then, Trustee Elliott, Boland and Campbell have submitted a request for decision, which

[0:03:45] Voice 12: is in item 7.5 therefore 7.6 is not necessary we could just simply skip it when we get there

[0:03:53] Voice 12: or you could remove it from the agenda altogether i leave that to your discretion and secondary um

[0:03:58] Voice 12: noticing a bit of a panic this morning actually last night we realized it that the director's

[0:04:05] Voice 12: comments on item 7.5 were not captured in the agenda package and that just flew right by me

[0:04:10] Voice 12: when we released the agenda package so that's my apology that was uh just an administrative error

[0:04:15] Voice 12: I did when um how we tag things to go on the agenda as final that was completely my mistake

[0:04:21] Voice 12: and uh I'm sorry that I made it so because it's quite a lot of comments in there and I thought

[0:04:26] Voice 12: I was talking to trustee Elliot about it but uh apparently we were talking about the same thing

[0:04:30] Voice 12: so my bad I

[0:04:31] Trustee Elliott: was wondering about that because I saw the agenda and I was like did I miss it

[0:04:36] Trustee Elliott: something I should have clarified with you on Friday so I apologize director Sir Mac

[0:04:39] Trustee Elliott: It's all my fault.

[0:04:42] Trustee Elliott: It

[0:04:42] Voice 12: was a busy weekend.

[0:04:44] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[0:04:44] Trustee Elliott: So my apologies

[0:04:44] Voice 12: to the group.

[0:04:45] Voice 12: We can discuss that at the appropriate time and review those comments.

[0:04:48] Voice 12: I'm prepared to speak to them.

[0:04:49] Voice 12: Yeah.

[0:04:50] Voice 12: And you have sent us

[0:04:51] Voice 9: an attachment with those comments.

[0:04:53] Voice 9: I have.

[0:04:55] Voice 12: And if you accept those amendments into the agenda package, what we'll do is after the

[0:04:59] Voice 12: meeting, we'll update the agenda package, make sure it's posted so the rest of the community

[0:05:03] Voice 12: has access to that as well.

[0:05:06] Voice 9: Yeah.

[0:05:06] Voice 9: I mean, I think those are both appropriate recommendations.

[0:05:08] Voice 9: recommendations I would suggest that we remove 7.6 as it is and have staff substitute 7.5 with

[0:05:19] Voice 9: your comments in the future things if that's acceptable and I trust you Graham. Thank you

[0:05:25] Voice 11: chair just wondering if we could have the thought bumped up a little bit I'm without reading glasses

[0:05:31] Voice 11: and it's a little bit hard for me oh you're the best thank you so much perfect and thank you

[0:05:40] Voice 9: trustee Boland for checking on quorum and thank you staff croaker for for confirming um so with

[0:05:50] Voice 9: that are there any other uh amendments that people would like to make to the agenda all right

[0:05:59] Voice 9: seeing as that I don't see anybody raising their hands I'm going to say that we accept the agenda

[0:06:07] Voice 9: agenda as it is. Having accepted the agenda, we can move on to, we have a public comment period.

[0:06:29] Voice 9: I note that we do have some attendees in the meeting. I don't know if any of those attendees

[0:06:37] Voice 9: wish to speak, and I actually don't realize now that I don't know by what mechanism we find that

[0:06:42] Voice 9: out when we're doing it

[0:06:46] Trustee Elliott: mr chair i think they just need to raise their hand uh and then we

[0:06:50] Trustee Elliott: promote them to speaker um or rob can do that and then address the committee wonderful

[0:06:57] Voice 9: yeah so if

[0:06:58] Voice 9: any of the if any of the members of the public would like to address the committee uh please

[0:07:02] Voice 9: raise your hands and we'll promote you to a speaker i see that chair luckham would like to

[0:07:10] Voice 9: to speak, by all means.

[0:07:12] Voice 6: Oh, sorry.

[0:07:13] Voice 9: Trusty Luckham.

[0:07:16] Voice 9: Nope, just getting excited.

[0:07:18] Voice 9: All right.

[0:07:19] Voice 9: It sounds like, oh, yes, Suzanne Jacobson.

[0:07:23] Voice 9: Looks like she would like to speak.

[0:07:27] Voice 9: So staff, if you're able to promote her,

[0:07:29] Voice 9: I don't know if I have that.

[0:07:31] Voice 17: Suzanne, I've promoted you to a panelist,

[0:07:33] Voice 17: and you should be able to speak once you've accepted.

[0:07:42] Voice 15: Oh, unmute?

[0:07:43] Voice 6: Yeah, there we go.

[0:07:44] Voice 15: Star, come there now?

[0:07:47] Voice 9: Yes, we can hear you.

[0:07:49] Voice 15: Perfect. I just wanted to thank all of you. I'm Suzanne Jacobson. I'm from Mudge Island Community Association on Mudge Island and I just wanted to introduce myself and I believe I have a number of colleagues online as well.

[0:08:07] Voice 15: just to say thank you very much for putting us on the agenda in such short notice and taking time

[0:08:13] Voice 15: to read our package i really appreciate um how you're doing that and look forward to hearing

[0:08:19] Voice 15: the conversation so thank you thank

[0:08:22] Voice 9: you uh yeah we we we appreciate your your submission and and

[0:08:26] Voice 9: i know it's uh your your situation is not unique among the islands we have these these sorts of

[0:08:31] Voice 9: things come up and i think we look forward to having that discussion all right so if that is

[0:08:42] Voice 9: is everyone who wish to speak as a part of public comment.

[0:08:48] Voice 9: We'll move on.

[0:08:49] Voice 9: We don't formally have a delegation,

[0:08:51] Voice 9: although, so I'd say we move right on to section five,

[0:08:55] Voice 9: which is 5.1, which is correspondence

[0:08:57] Voice 9: from the Mudge Island Community Association.

[0:09:03] Voice 9: So yeah, I don't know if,

[0:09:07] Voice 9: I mean, I assume that everyone has read this.

[0:09:11] Voice 9: Don't know if there's any insight that staff can give us

[0:09:14] Voice 9: or if that we wanna have a discussion.

[0:09:16] Voice 9: discussion trustee

[0:09:26] Voice 6: elliott well

[0:09:29] Trustee Elliott: um i'd like to raise a couple of points um i did encourage um

[0:09:35] Trustee Elliott: micah to submit a letter to regional planning committee because we are specifically tasked with

[0:09:42] Trustee Elliott: the review of our trust council held policy and how we initiate and investigate uh complaints

[0:09:53] Trustee Elliott: So those policies that are held by Trust Council and we cannot address on a local trust committee level, that's where we've been actually really struggling, is with the initiation of complaints.

[0:10:07] Trustee Elliott: complaints. So I just wanted to point to a few things in the letter that I hope we can consider

[0:10:16] Trustee Elliott: today as we look at the amended policy and the new guide that staff has prepared. So page six,

[0:10:27] Trustee Elliott: the issue really here is the interpretation of our current policy that complaints must be

[0:10:35] Trustee Elliott: investigated while the policy 3.1 reads may be investigated. So that was a real strong

[0:10:47] Trustee Elliott: debate in the community when we held a special meeting on Mudge Island and we went back and

[0:10:53] Trustee Elliott: forth and really we didn't have a satisfactory answer as to why staff were interpreting

[0:10:58] Trustee Elliott: the policy that they must open a file and investigate every time a complaint is made.

[0:11:06] Trustee Elliott: The second issue that I wanted to point out is, it was raised a few times by Mudge community members, and I've actually come to kind of agree that the way our system works has been, has allowed someone to take advantage of the complaints-based nature.

[0:11:34] Trustee Elliott: nature. And I don't want to say it was an agenda or someone had a personal need to see all

[0:11:47] Trustee Elliott: non-compliant uses of every property on Mudge Island investigated, but that's certainly what

[0:11:54] Trustee Elliott: it seems to have felt like for many community members. And so instead of identifying that

[0:12:03] Trustee Elliott: there is a systemic problem where a few people took it upon themselves to make a bunch of

[0:12:13] Trustee Elliott: complaints, 61 complaints, and cause a whole uproar in the community. One special meeting

[0:12:21] Trustee Elliott: and now another special meeting. A huge amount of resources have been spent already to just deal

[0:12:27] Trustee Elliott: deal with this one issue where we'd much rather be dealing with something like safe boat access

[0:12:34] Trustee Elliott: or something that actually is of concern in the community. And so what has happened is our entire

[0:12:41] Trustee Elliott: system was upended and created all of this huge level of concern, uncertainty, and fear in the

[0:12:54] Trustee Elliott: the community, really driven by, it seems like a few people making a rash of complaints. So

[0:13:03] Trustee Elliott: this is why I wanted to bring it to this committee, because it is one instance of how our

[0:13:10] Trustee Elliott: system is currently open to that kind of, it just creates a whole bunch of challenges that don't

[0:13:21] Trustee Elliott: need to be there. So I'm really supportive of the direction that we're going. We're addressing

[0:13:24] Trustee Elliott: the policy. We're updating everything to align with the ombudsperson's best practices, but

[0:13:33] Trustee Elliott: I do think that we could do more in directing staff or suggesting that there needs to be a

[0:13:47] Trustee Elliott: conversation about how staff is currently interpreting that policy 3.1. I think it's

[0:13:54] Trustee Elliott: caused a lot of problems that were potentially unnecessary because to speak frankly once it was

[0:14:01] Trustee Elliott: identified that if just a few individuals were making a huge number of complaints in the space

[0:14:07] Trustee Elliott: of honestly two months we could have just paused the whole thing and said we're not going to

[0:14:12] Trustee Elliott: investigate anymore until we get to you know is this really a problem but instead the every file

[0:14:20] Trustee Elliott: had to be opened and that led to more and more community members feeling targeted in fear um

[0:14:27] Trustee Elliott: when is this going to stop do i need to you know and i'm talking about elderly people who've lived

[0:14:35] Trustee Elliott: in a unpermitted house for 50 years and suddenly they're like do i have to move i can't afford to

[0:14:44] Trustee Elliott: to build something new. So it just, it's caused a lot of unnecessary angst, pain, grief, and

[0:14:53] Trustee Elliott: honestly, huge expense and resources when honestly, I think staff could have exercised

[0:15:00] Trustee Elliott: discretion and just said, we need to stop. We're not going to investigate everything because it's

[0:15:06] Trustee Elliott: clearly coming from just a few people. So that's, this is what we've been dealing with for four

[0:15:10] Trustee Elliott: months. I'm really glad to see we're going to make some changes, but I think we could have had

[0:15:16] Trustee Elliott: a conversation much earlier with the issue of interpretation, and should that be addressed

[0:15:24] Trustee Elliott: right away. Thank you.

[0:15:27] Voice 9: Yeah, and thank you for your insight, Trustee LA, because you obviously

[0:15:31] Voice 9: are the boots on the ground in that area for us as an elected body. I have some comments,

[0:15:40] Voice 9: comments, but I'm going to let Trustee Graham steam ahead.

[0:15:44] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair. Just a comment

[0:15:46] Voice 11: on the letter. I know it came from an organization on Mudge Island, but thinking about bylaws and

[0:15:52] Voice 11: the islands and the way we've traditionally accepted a certain amount of people living,

[0:16:00] Voice 11: perhaps not complying with our bylaws, and it's being complaint-driven,

[0:16:03] Voice 11: But Denman Island could have been hit by this exact same scenario if somebody decided to, and it could have been someone who just wanted to test the island's trust bylaw system. Let's just see how effective it is. And they could have driven around and probably found, oh, a hundred infractions and sent that along to the bylaw enforcement people and they would have been swamped.

[0:16:26] Voice 11: Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if every island decided to do the same thing?

[0:16:32] Voice 11: So this is just a wake-up call to all of us to really think about bio-enforcement compliance

[0:16:37] Voice 11: and how we want to deal with it in a measured, compassionate, and understanding way.

[0:16:45] Voice 11: And I don't know why it was so hard to interpret the word may.

[0:16:50] Voice 11: I've always been comfortable with that word.

[0:16:53] Voice 11: And so that's going to be part of our conversation.

[0:16:55] Voice 11: Thank you, Trustee Elliott, and thank you, members of the Mudge Island Community Association.

[0:17:04] Voice 9: Yeah, well, if any, if no other trustees have got immediate things, I, yeah, similarly, I was, I was going to say, as Trustee Graham said, you know, this could easily happen on pretty well any of our islands, and it is, it is an abuse of the system.

[0:17:20] Voice 9: And it's and it's our job, you know, not to to rule on specific individual situations, but to try and make sure that the system supports fair and just and effective enforcement policy for all of the islands.

[0:17:36] Voice 9: And it is important that our staff feel supported and they have clear direction on how to do their jobs. And we need bylaw enforcement to have teeth so that when there are serious health concerns and problems that come up, they're able to do their job.

[0:17:53] Voice 9: I would agree with Trustee Graham. May, to me, is very specifically a word that allows you to exercise some discretion. And I think it's really important for us as an organization to be discretionary.

[0:18:09] Voice 9: We make a lot about how the islands have many unique components, and I think one of the really wonderful things about the trust is that because we are a smaller body, we have the capacity to look at things on a more bespoke basis, and exercising that discretion is important.

[0:18:30] Voice 9: important and especially when it can avoid abuse and frankly the waste of resources by both us

[0:18:39] Voice 9: our bylaw enforcement department who are not numerous and also by our constituents and I

[0:18:46] Voice 9: think that's really important. So I'm very keen to look you know as we get into talking about the

[0:18:51] Voice 9: policy stuff later on I'll be very interested to see how we can exercise our judgment and our

[0:18:58] Voice 9: our discretion in giving clear direction to staff as to how to process situations like this and

[0:19:04] Voice 9: hopefully try and close the gaps to to stop things like this happening again in the future i think

[0:19:09] Voice 9: it's vital i am seeing a hand up from the attendees now normally i think this would not be a moment

[0:19:18] Voice 9: where we would do that but i think i'm going to assume that john mccullough is a member of

[0:19:23] Voice 9: Mudge Island Community Association. I am very happy to have him speak. If none of the other

[0:19:32] Voice 9: trustees have an objection, I'd ask staff to give him the ability to speak.

[0:19:46] Voice 17: Right. John has been promoted to a panelist and, when accepted, should be able to address us.

[0:19:57] Voice 9: So, John, I think you're muted at the moment, but if you unmute, we'd love to hear from you.

[0:20:02] Voice 9: great

[0:20:04] Voice 2: thank you so much I'm trying to turn my video on there we go

[0:20:10] Voice 2: first of all thank you for allowing us to speak and I will judiciously use the

[0:20:17] Voice 2: time knowing just being grateful to have it I I just leave you with one thought

[0:20:25] Voice 2: and that is that we've come to understand exactly how threatening it is

[0:20:33] Voice 2: and how much angst it creates when we receive a complaint letter from Islands Trust

[0:20:42] Voice 2: and when there's a site visit.

[0:20:45] Voice 2: And we said this at the public meeting, but the process seems to be in the wrong order.

[0:20:55] Voice 2: I called it ready, fire, aim.

[0:20:58] Voice 2: And we really think it should be ready, aim, fire.

[0:21:01] Voice 2: And the aiming part is having a look at the complaint, having a look at the circumstances around it, and really exercising some judgment about whether it makes sense to start a file and spend the money and spend the time.

[0:21:25] Voice 2: We don't think it should be automatic that you should just open a file and start investigating.

[0:21:30] Voice 2: It has a real impact on people.

[0:21:33] Voice 2: anyway that that's all i wanted to leave you with thank you so much thank

[0:21:40] Voice 9: you very much john um we

[0:21:42] Voice 9: yeah that's that's definitely been something that we've experienced uh here on denman island as well

[0:21:48] Voice 9: uh and i think and i i i do have sympathy for staff and in terms of how to i think that uh

[0:21:55] Voice 9: you know blind adherence to to to to guidelines is a hallmark of a system that's that's

[0:22:02] Voice 9: too overwhelmed to show discretion in individual cases uh and i you know i i you know i have a lot

[0:22:11] Voice 9: of sympathy for for uh for director daigman and his his crew in terms of how they you know the

[0:22:16] Voice 9: the volume of things that they have to address um and uh and i know that there are legal you know

[0:22:22] Voice 9: expectations of them to to exercise their duties and you know i think that this is this discussion

[0:22:29] Voice 9: that we're going to be having is about making sure

[0:22:32] Voice 9: that we can do better, because I think that we can.

[0:22:35] Voice 9: Director Dingman.

[0:22:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Good morning, Chair.

[0:22:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So the point I would like to make at this moment

[0:22:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is that the discretion must come from the decision makers.

[0:22:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Staff have limited discretion.

[0:22:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And over the years since I've been here,

[0:22:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: some discretion has been brought into the policies,

[0:23:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but it's been very limited.

[0:23:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Any real discretion that I exercise must be done with the director of planning services.

[0:23:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So moving forward, if either Trust Council wants to add discretion for staff,

[0:23:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Trust Council needs to do that.

[0:23:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And more importantly, local trust committees need to give the direction.

[0:23:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Here's the discretion we wish you to exercise.

[0:23:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And for whatever reasons, what has been lacking within the policies, what the ombuds person identified was, unlike every other jurisdiction in BC that has a bylaw enforcement policy, Islands Trust never developed a policy to deal with vexatious, frivolous, or repeat complaints.

[0:23:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: complaints it just didn't exist so in the end if it's going to we're going to have to rely on

[0:24:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the trustees elected officials and the decision makers to say okay what discretion do we want

[0:24:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: staff to exercise because when i started here there was absolutely zero discretion

[0:24:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: even i'm part of the bylaw manager that could be exercised so we need it in the policies we

[0:24:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We need it in writing so that we can't, I can't just say, okay, I have the authority

[0:24:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to do A, B, and C when, in fact, no such legal authority exists.

[0:24:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Local trust committees are the enforcement authority.

[0:24:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: These are your bylaws.

[0:24:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And I can't say I'm not going to investigate a complaint against your bylaw without proper

[0:24:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: direction and policies from local trust committees.

[0:24:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Thank you.

[0:24:58] Voice 9: Absolutely, Warren.

[0:24:59] Voice 9: And that's, I think it is very much on our shoulders

[0:25:03] Voice 9: to outline where we want that discretion to be

[0:25:06] Voice 9: and decide what that ought to be.

[0:25:08] Voice 9: You know, I feel strongly about empowering you

[0:25:11] Voice 9: to do your job as effectively and as justly as we can.

[0:25:14] Voice 9: So I think that's definitely falls on us

[0:25:17] Voice 9: to make that distinction.

[0:25:21] Voice 9: All right.

[0:25:22] Voice 9: Do we have any other further comment

[0:25:24] Voice 9: on this bit of correspondence in particular?

[0:25:28] Voice 9: do any other trustees wish to speak seeing that a

[0:25:38] Trustee Elliott: little bit so i apologize um do we want to have

[0:25:42] Trustee Elliott: a portion of this letter or um so so we can only make recommendations to trust council

[0:25:49] Trustee Elliott: um should this letter be attached uh in some form in the final body of recommendations that we make

[0:25:57] Trustee Elliott: is it germane to the conversation or is it sufficient to have the discussion here and

[0:26:03] Trustee Elliott: we make amendments to the draft policy and then our recommendations to trust

[0:26:06] Trustee Elliott: council.

[0:26:08] Voice 9: I mean,

[0:26:09] Voice 9: I would certainly hope that any recommendations we make to trust council,

[0:26:13] Voice 9: they would assume that we've considered all the evidence.

[0:26:16] Voice 9: It is also a very good example of how the system can go in a way that we don't

[0:26:25] Voice 9: wish it to go in future. I would be happy to attach it.

[0:26:28] Voice 9: That might be more appropriate as a part of the motions later on.

[0:26:32] Voice 9: We are forwarding our recommendations, but yeah, Trustee Campbell.

[0:26:43] Voice 7: I was actually just going to ask if it was possible for us to attach the letter to any sort of reporting out that we do at the next press council to maybe be able to speak to or have a conversation at the bigger level.

[0:27:04] Voice 7: level i do understand though that this is also you know very much a local um issue as well for

[0:27:13] Voice 7: for us to address and uh and so there's a lot of i think that needs to be emphasized to press these

[0:27:21] Voice 7: but um a lot of what is is becoming an issue is in our own hands to uh to deal with in our local

[0:27:31] Voice 7: community.

[0:27:35] Voice 9: Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think my feeling would be that I think this is a

[0:27:41] Voice 9: useful example of a situation that can arise and sort of underscores what recommendations we may

[0:27:50] Voice 9: have later on. But I think from my understanding of the process, it would make more sense to attach

[0:27:58] Voice 9: this as a part of those motions when we've discussed the policies that we're going to

[0:28:03] Voice 9: to talk about later on but yeah let's let's put a pin in that and and bring it back when we get

[0:28:10] Voice 9: on to those bits so uh thank you again very much uh much island community association i'm sorry that

[0:28:20] Voice 9: you had to go through this for this to get to our table um that's not the way around that we want to

[0:28:25] Voice 9: do things and yeah we will we will do our best to try and make things better um all right so we then

[0:28:35] Voice 9: then move on to Section 6, and we've got

[0:28:39] Voice 9: some draft minutes to approve.

[0:28:43] Voice 9: I was not present for the May 24th

[0:28:48] Voice 9: RPC meeting. Oh, Trustee Campbell, or maybe your hand is still up.

[0:29:00] Voice 9: I forgot

[0:29:00] Voice 9: to put my hand down.

[0:29:02] Voice 9: Okay.

[0:29:04] Voice 9: So I don't know if anybody has had any issues with the draft

[0:29:10] Voice 9: minutes from April 25th, or the draft minutes from May 24th. I had a good read through, I didn't see

[0:29:17] Voice 9: anything that leapt out at me as being incorrect. But obviously, I don't, I did not see the May 24th

[0:29:24] Voice 9: meeting. So.

[0:29:26] Trustee Elliott: Chair, I did review the minutes of May 24th meeting. And as I was chair, acting chair

[0:29:32] Trustee Elliott: that day, and made a few small amendments, but they're all good, from my view. Thanks.

[0:29:38] Trustee Elliott: All

[0:29:39] Voice 9: right. And we're about to lose Trustee Boland. Good luck. Hopefully everything goes well. All right. Well then, I'm completely blanking on the...

[0:29:55] Trustee Elliott: You just adopt the minutes of both meetings by general consent.

[0:30:00] Voice 9: consent that's the bit I was like I had by and I was like don't everything else is gone yeah so if

[0:30:05] Voice 9: uh with no other issues let's adopt those by general consent uh and move on to 6.3 which is

[0:30:12] Voice 9: our follow-up action list also I think seemed fine to me but I don't know if anybody's got any

[0:30:24] Voice 9: comments uh director sermon you are me yeah there you go

[0:30:37] Voice 12: pardon me clearing my throat just a few

[0:30:40] Voice 12: things uh uh trustees and mr chair the uh you'll notice there's a bunch of things that say that

[0:30:45] Voice 12: were that are not done and what have you so i just thought i'd talk about them a little bit

[0:30:49] Voice 12: we have various things uh related to the freshwater sustainability strategy

[0:30:54] Voice 12: there's some small notes there about drafting an implementation plan

[0:30:59] Voice 12: those will be captured later in the implementation plan and a few of the correspondence related

[0:31:04] Voice 12: related issues to the freshwater sustainability strategy, those works remain ongoing. And

[0:31:10] Voice 12: in discussions with staff, we look forward to completing a lot of those things by the

[0:31:15] Voice 12: end of the fiscal. The eelgrass mapping, I actually have done that. I don't know why

[0:31:21] Voice 12: I didn't say I haven't done it. I've had a Terms of Reference for a long time. So my

[0:31:26] Voice 12: apologies for not updating that. I just kind of caught that in my review again. It seems

[0:31:29] Voice 12: to be things seem to be rushing by me these days and um and what i have been doing ongoing in

[0:31:35] Voice 12: regards to the old grass mapping is i've been having many discussions with the mapping providers

[0:31:40] Voice 12: or potential mapping providers about terms of reference what's coming down who's doing what

[0:31:44] Voice 12: when where how that kind of stuff and trying to get a cleaner sense of um being ready if the

[0:31:53] Voice 12: strategic plan going to trust council in september is adopted if indeed there's a greater emphasis or

[0:31:59] Voice 12: re-emphasis I should say on marine protection and how do we do that and if eelgrass mapping is a key

[0:32:06] Voice 12: component of that I'll be ready to respond to that at that time so rest assured that I it has not

[0:32:10] Voice 12: fallen off my plate in fact it's absorbed quite a bit of time just doesn't reflect it in my little

[0:32:15] Voice 12: done bar on the side there sorry the that method is a bit new for me what was the other one the

[0:32:23] Voice 12: right and then the other one was about the last one I believe about staff providing information

[0:32:27] Voice 12: about implications of LTCs regarding item four.

[0:32:30] Voice 12: I can see there it's assigned to Warren.

[0:32:33] Voice 12: I'm not sure, Warren and I have briefly spoken to it,

[0:32:36] Voice 12: but we haven't actually actioned this item.

[0:32:40] Voice 12: And if you recall in February,

[0:32:42] Voice 12: this was in regards to the new bill

[0:32:44] Voice 12: that was the short-term rental act.

[0:32:49] Voice 12: And this particular one was about the implications

[0:32:53] Voice 12: applications of the end of legal conforming status so that the the RPC asked for us to

[0:33:01] Voice 12: respond back to that no action has taken place on that so I'm conscious of that and my forgive me

[0:33:09] Voice 12: if I sound a little flippant there I mean the answer is they're not legal anymore so I was

[0:33:13] Voice 12: kind of like we're not sure what else to say so and I think that's when the early conversations

[0:33:19] Voice 12: we had back in February, March with staff.

[0:33:23] Voice 12: That's kind of where we came to.

[0:33:24] Voice 12: So my apologies, we haven't circled around back to it.

[0:33:26] Voice 12: So perhaps I would like to take this opportunity

[0:33:29] Voice 12: to hear from the RPC what more you'd like to know about this

[0:33:32] Voice 12: so we can tease it out more to give you the information you need

[0:33:35] Voice 12: in order to make decisions and pass along to your communities.

[0:33:38] Voice 12: So I'm going to turn it back to you, Chair.

[0:33:41] Voice 9: Yeah, thank you.

[0:33:42] Voice 9: No, that's good.

[0:33:43] Voice 9: And I actually had flagged that on my read-through,

[0:33:45] Voice 9: but I didn't make a note, so it didn't come up on my brain.

[0:33:47] Voice 9: uh trusty it looks like she's got some things to say so yeah um

[0:33:52] Trustee Elliott: yeah so regarding that item

[0:33:55] Trustee Elliott: gabriela obviously having opted into the provincial legislation i believe we're expecting

[0:34:02] Trustee Elliott: communication to go out to property owners um if i'm not mistaken and could that help inform

[0:34:12] Trustee Elliott: you know the implications for ltcs we're going to have a steep learning curve

[0:34:16] Trustee Elliott: you know in november as some properties become you know have that non-conforming status removed

[0:34:24] Trustee Elliott: um so just i'm assuming here but some reporting might come out from the gabriella ltc that could

[0:34:31] Trustee Elliott: inform a larger uh implications for all ltcs because we're going to see how this happens

[0:34:37] Trustee Elliott: live it'll be fun yeah

[0:34:42] Voice 9: certainly i know we're yeah by all means director sorry

[0:34:44] Voice 12: i don't mean

[0:34:46] Voice 12: to drop i just realized a couple more updates i could give in sort of relation to this uh trustee

[0:34:52] Voice 12: elliott flagged my brain the gabriola ltc is the only ltc to opt in to the principal residence

[0:34:59] Voice 12: requirement which means i mean a lot of ltcs have that but they're the only ones who opted in to the

[0:35:05] Voice 12: provincial requirement therefore the province will enforce or so they say they may enforce

[0:35:11] Voice 12: enforce, will or may, they may enforce that principal residence requirement on Capriola.

[0:35:20] Voice 12: So there, and I confirmed with them that yes, they will do so, there's no smoke and mirrors

[0:35:27] Voice 12: on that.

[0:35:27] Voice 12: The second thing is I just got communications this morning, and Trustee Patrick, too bad

[0:35:32] Voice 12: she's not here, or Chair Patrick, she would like to hear this, is that we were informed

[0:35:37] Voice 12: that we do not have access to the short-term rental accommodation information portal used

[0:35:43] Voice 12: for the bylaw enforcement. And we were told that we didn't have access to that because we don't

[0:35:48] Voice 12: have business licenses. And those communities with business licenses for short-term rentals

[0:35:54] Voice 12: were prioritized for access to that enforcement knowledge that the province has been gathering.

[0:35:59] Voice 12: I was just informed this morning, like literally I popped up while we were talking,

[0:36:04] Voice 12: that indeed after much haranguing we will get access to that what that means

[0:36:10] Voice 12: and how that play what the implications of that I'm not 100% sure I'll we'll

[0:36:15] Voice 12: talk to by law enforcement about that but we will be sharing and we will be

[0:36:19] Voice 12: signing an information sharing agreement with the province that we will have

[0:36:22] Voice 12: access to that data as of this morning so or as of the notice this morning

[0:36:27] Voice 12: whenever we sign that agreement is we'll put it in our work plan so that's a

[0:36:31] Voice 12: great news and um just for your information i i really did um channel um um emily olsen's words

[0:36:39] Voice 12: about salt spring island he has some really profound ways of speaking and found it very

[0:36:43] Voice 12: helpful to um adopt some of that hard language in yet in a professional way so so there you go

[0:36:50] Voice 12: it was effective so trustee patrick wherever she is she can perhaps wave a flag somewhere

[0:36:54] Voice 12: more. A Romanian one, I suppose. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[0:37:00] Voice 9: Yeah, no, and I certainly, I'm very

[0:37:03] Voice 9: interested to see how things are coming out for Gabriela. I think it's some very interesting

[0:37:09] Voice 9: legislation from the province. And yeah, I think we're all looking forward to seeing

[0:37:13] Voice 9: what your experience is on Gabriela with that. My sense is, so Director Cermak, you're saying that

[0:37:20] Voice 9: There's maybe not a whole bunch of extra information to report back on this item for for the RPC.

[0:37:28] Voice 9: I am by my nature, I am inclined to remove items that are not serving a purpose, but I would seek the guidance of the rest of the RPC.

[0:37:41] Voice 9: Again, I am feeling the lack of of our usual chair, Laura Patrick, because I feel like her guidance would be good on this.

[0:37:49] Voice 9: I don't know if it's if it's not serving a purpose and if Director Cermak doesn't feel that there's a need to expound beyond on this, we could perhaps remove it.

[0:38:01] Voice 9: But yeah, do any of the other trustees have any feelings on that?

[0:38:03] Voice 9: Trustee Elliott?

[0:38:06] Trustee Elliott: Personally, I would just leave it up, but wait until after the election to see what the results of that are going to be.

[0:38:14] Trustee Elliott: I mean, depending on how the election goes, all of this legislation might be removed or changed.

[0:38:21] Trustee Elliott: So, I would still want to see it up there because there are implications, and we need to keep learning and sharing that information, but maybe it's not so urgent.

[0:38:37] Voice 9: Yeah, the election will certainly alter the landscape.

[0:38:41] Voice 9: Well, all right, for now, let's perhaps leave it.

[0:38:45] Voice 9: But I think we should consider taking things off of our follow-up action list as and when they cease to be useful.

[0:38:52] Voice 9: but yeah i would agree with trustee elliott that i think things are likely to be whatever happens

[0:38:58] Voice 9: in the election there'll be some interesting news in the next few months all right so if that's

[0:39:06] Voice 9: everything with the follow-up action list let's don't think we have we move on to section seven

[0:39:20] Voice 9: and 7.1 which is the freshwater sustainability strategy implementation briefing

[0:39:25] Voice 9: briefing uh and is william shoba among us i

[0:39:30] Voice 5: am hello all

[0:39:31] Voice 9: right excellent well you're

[0:39:34] Voice 9: the man of

[0:39:34] Voice 9: the hour

[0:39:35] Voice 16: yes and um yeah i also like to say that uh anthony um planner patino and i worked uh a lot

[0:39:46] Voice 16: on this uh subject over the last um few months so i would just like to recognize him as well

[0:39:52] Voice 5: so

[0:39:53] Voice 16: yeah hello good folks of the regional planning committee um uh before i use a briefing that that

[0:40:01] Voice 16: uh i put together um in admittedly in in just the last week uh anthony and i were working on a quite

[0:40:11] Voice 16: substantial request for decision and a business case as uh as to reach the the resolutions provided

[0:40:19] Voice 16: provided by the Regional Planning Committee in the last meeting and I'll say that through

[0:40:28] Voice 16: that work and then through going through the review process with Director Cermak and Regional

[0:40:38] Voice 16: Planning Manager Kijima that essentially you know we're faced with staff resourcing issues

[0:40:48] Voice 16: And that impacted me going forward with a business case that had an associated dollar value for it for the freshwater balance project that we built a business case around.

[0:41:04] Voice 16: around. Essentially, there would not be the planning support for the next fiscal to undertake

[0:41:16] Voice 16: a project of, say, $100,000 or something like that. So we are presenting something different

[0:41:26] Voice 16: different today and I'll describe that and there'll be a substantial request for decision

[0:41:35] Voice 16: coming for your November meeting that will provide more context to an implementation plan

[0:41:42] Voice 16: and also to provide a business case or a project plan for the freshwater balance project

[0:41:52] Voice 16: as it relates to current work that's undergoing on on on Gabriola Island and I'll describe that

[0:42:02] Voice 16: I just wanted to put that in front of my conversation here today so hey Rob can you

[0:42:08] Voice 16: just scroll down a little bit just to show the resolutions there yeah right there thank you

[0:42:12] Voice 16: so last last meeting the regional planning committee asked staff to review provide a

[0:42:21] Voice 16: review and status of of past and current projects and and that um has been presented in brief here

[0:42:27] Voice 16: um and so uh an attachment there there are two attachments to this briefing uh one that shows

[0:42:35] Voice 16: a timeline of projects and what uh local trust committees were involved in those projects

[0:42:43] Voice 16: projects um and we'll look yeah how about we just jump to that now so the the green uh you can kind

[0:42:53] Voice 16: of expand it to just show the top um portion of it yeah even bigger yeah perfect thanks um so the

[0:42:59] Voice 16: the green boxes are showing like when projects were completed um and for example act for

[0:43:06] Voice 16: conceptualization was a four-year like it's a multi-year four-year project so there's there's

[0:43:13] Voice 16: four green boxes because every year we accomplished uh several local trust areas so in that year

[0:43:21] Voice 16: um there was a project that was open and and processed and completed and so that's what that

[0:43:27] Voice 16: means uh the yellow is projects that were in their pilot stage or methodology stage or testing stage

[0:43:36] Voice 16: So, for example, when I first started back in 2017, we did a little bit of work on aqua conceptualization and groundwater recharge mapping and groundwater recharge mapping on Salt Spring Island, because there was a big project with the provincial government at that time.

[0:43:55] Voice 16: And so through that project, it was more on the staff level. We were developing the methodology and then that moved to a funded project by, you know, by an LTC or by the RPC, you know, through Trust Council, of course, budget process.

[0:44:13] Voice 16: And so those projects were then engaged, and that's where those green kind of squares are.

[0:44:24] Voice 16: The orange squares are projects that were in progress for the entire fiscal, and either they were never completed or they're just ongoing.

[0:44:39] Voice 16: So a good example of that is, is well monitoring project on, on Gabriola and on Salt Spring Island. Those are the one on Gabriola Island is, is stewarded by the regional district of Nanaimo and the one on Salt Spring is undertaken through the LTC there and I manage that project.

[0:45:01] Voice 16: project um so those those orange tiles just mean that it's it's ongoing and we haven't stopped yet

[0:45:09] Voice 16: and there there may or may not be an end date to that um the gray in there of the volunteer

[0:45:16] Voice 16: observation while monitoring was the it was unsupported and and um I wouldn't say unsupported

[0:45:22] Voice 16: but it was uh not coordinated through the pandemic era so there's a time where that project kind of

[0:45:28] Voice 16: went dark for a bit and and now uh with the planner and salt spring chris buck and we're

[0:45:34] Voice 16: we're now picking it up again and and yeah that that's mostly to to do with the ltc and

[0:45:40] Voice 16: i trust you patrick but she's she's not here right now so i won't i won't dwell on that um

[0:45:47] Voice 16: yeah so i i i understand this is a little bit confusing but i think it it shows all these

[0:45:53] Voice 16: these projects here um are island stress projects uh the seawater intrusion risk was the project um

[0:45:59] Voice 16: of the regional planning committee from last term but that was led by the province so i didn't split

[0:46:05] Voice 16: hairs here to to show which projects were were led by island stress or not but but the majority of

[0:46:10] Voice 16: them are our projects um you know a lot of these are collaborative efforts with the regional

[0:46:16] Voice 16: district or the province and um and then the blue squares are just us staff thinking about

[0:46:24] Voice 16: what would be the next steps um you can see that a lot of the work of the groundwater

[0:46:29] Voice 16: sustainability science program has been undertaken i mean i'm a hydrogeologist and i came in

[0:46:34] Voice 16: uh to to this job with with you know that that network and and and at the time um the province

[0:46:42] Voice 16: was really forward on groundwater projects on the islands as well.

[0:46:47] Voice 16: So there's a lot of good work done there.

[0:46:51] Voice 16: And some next steps for groundwater sustainability

[0:46:57] Voice 16: is to look at groundwater availability assessments,

[0:47:00] Voice 16: and those would be rolled into a freshwater balance project in itself.

[0:47:06] Voice 16: So another aspect of looking at all these projects,

[0:47:11] Voice 16: projects that they're not really done in isolation, aquifer conceptualization, groundwater recharge mapping, groundwater region mapping, and some other things like watershed resiliency and water course mapping and wet areas mapping.

[0:47:28] Voice 16: these projects were all bundled into into one effort even though they're individual deliverables

[0:47:35] Voice 16: and projects and and have their individual actions and objectives that uh a lot of these projects for

[0:47:41] Voice 16: the nature of um efficiency and and budget and all that stuff and and retaining a consultant

[0:47:47] Voice 16: and influence from the province giving us money are bundled together so um yeah so i would say

[0:47:54] Voice 16: these kind of come together as a super projects um and um i think i think i'll leave it at that for

[0:48:03] Voice 16: now i i think this gives a good snapshot i was just trying my best to address the the resolution

[0:48:10] Voice 16: um from the regional planning committee to understand which projects were done and where

[0:48:14] Voice 16: they were done without writing 10 pages and i i hope this captures it i'm really open to questions

[0:48:21] Voice 16: But let me bounce down to the actions.

[0:48:26] Voice 16: Can you just go to the next attachment, Rob?

[0:48:28] Voice 16: Thanks so much.

[0:48:30] Voice 16: So this page here may look a little complex.

[0:48:37] Voice 16: The projects are the same as the page above.

[0:48:41] Voice 16: That hasn't changed.

[0:48:42] Voice 16: The programs haven't changed.

[0:48:44] Voice 16: And what these actions are, they're actions of the particular program.

[0:48:49] Voice 16: And the actions I listed below, they're not my actions.

[0:48:55] Voice 16: They were developed by the Strategic Advisory Roundtable that helped develop the freshwater sustainability strategy.

[0:49:05] Voice 16: And the difficult thing about the strategy is actually I was speaking with Joe Elliott,

[0:49:14] Voice 16: And it's some similar challenges he's facing with the reconciliation plan is that there's goals and objectives and potentially actions.

[0:49:27] Voice 16: But unlike the housing action plan, these actions aren't, they're more like objectives rather than tasks.

[0:49:35] Voice 16: So what I'm trying to present here is how many actions were related to the existing projects that we undertook.

[0:49:43] Voice 16: So how much of what the strategic roundtable thought the freshwater strategy would undertake, how much of that have we touched upon?

[0:49:54] Voice 16: And there's some aspects where we haven't at all, and there's some actions where they are scattered throughout various projects.

[0:50:06] Voice 16: projects so i i'm not sure how helpful this is but what i wanted to get across the table was that

[0:50:15] Voice 16: um just simply taking the actions from the existing strategy and and putting them into

[0:50:21] Voice 16: like a quarterly checklist is is really difficult i would say it's it's it's not feasible what is

[0:50:27] Voice 16: feasible is is going through either you know like staff have been workshopping this a lot on our

[0:50:34] Voice 16: side but perhaps we need to have a workshop with with the regional planning committee to understand

[0:50:39] Voice 16: like what actions are really important to for us to undertake and then it's up to staff to figure

[0:50:46] Voice 16: out what projects to to to to take on that would consider those actions and and like i said in our

[0:50:54] Voice 16: last meeting that fresh water balance is one of those projects that that touches upon uh groundwater

[0:51:01] Voice 16: water science watershed science um are traditional knowledge and community engagement and and those

[0:51:11] Voice 16: are lofty goals um so the the the intention that i i've come to now so you know like what are the

[0:51:22] Voice 16: if i'm not presenting a business case now it's like well what am i going to be doing for next

[0:51:27] Voice 16: next fiscal and there are a few items of the freshwater strategy that that we have untouched

[0:51:35] Voice 16: like a technical advisor committee or and and looking at consistent reporting back to the RPC

[0:51:43] Voice 16: but I think another one is is that we want to really understand from the Gabriola

[0:51:50] Voice 16: project so that project I'll name it it's the Islands Trust Freshwater Balance Methodology

[0:51:56] Voice 16: project with gabriel as a case study so gabriel is going to be the case study we're going to work

[0:52:02] Voice 16: through it together with the regional district in naimo and with the province and with our

[0:52:06] Voice 16: consultants and we're going to process that project this year and have outcomes and findings

[0:52:14] Voice 16: and and data gap analysis and analysis on how to move that project to the rest of the island's

[0:52:19] Voice 16: Trust Area, and that will be completing in March of 2025. So I think it's more strategic for us to

[0:52:28] Voice 16: receive that project, to do staff analysis, to understand how much it's going to cost to do this

[0:52:37] Voice 16: in the Islands Trust Area, and also prioritize the islands to undertake this work on, and then

[0:52:44] Voice 16: then come back to you in a year's time with with a with a budget ask to take on that work um and

[0:52:52] Voice 16: and at that time i'm i'm told that the the the there will be more planning resources that that

[0:52:59] Voice 16: or planner reason like planner time they'll be freed up um in order to facilitate that work

[0:53:06] Voice 16: because um i'm just i that the nature of the project like on the gabriola project

[0:53:13] Voice 16: that nurse is working on that with me that's that's part of the ocp leb project that they're

[0:53:18] Voice 16: working on if i'm saying that correctly um and and so i find strength in that and i'm and i'm

[0:53:25] Voice 16: confident we're going to have a holistic and and and successful project um and so going into a a

[0:53:36] Voice 16: a full-scale water balance project with the RPC without that planner support for next year. I

[0:53:43] Voice 16: wasn't confident on, and so I requested that we do not ask for a budget item to facilitate that

[0:53:53] Voice 16: project. But what I want to present to you in November is a project plan that staff will

[0:53:58] Voice 16: will undertake next fiscal that will initiate that project and do good work on it and accept

[0:54:05] Voice 16: the work from the Gabriola project and have a more strategic ask for money, not this coming

[0:54:13] Voice 16: fiscal, but the one following. So I want to leave it there because I always have this risk of just

[0:54:21] Voice 16: monologuing too long and saying things over and over again that I've already said. So I'm just

[0:54:25] Voice 16: going to stop it there and and i i appreciate any questions um if you have any or if you have any

[0:54:32] Voice 16: lasting thoughts that aren't captured in this meeting feel free to send them to me or to

[0:54:37] Voice 16: or to director cermak so we can um contemplate those and come back in november with a um

[0:54:46] Voice 16: with a better understanding of what an implementation plan will look like over the next

[0:54:49] Voice 16: to fiscals to you know to the end of term um yeah so i'll leave it there thank you

[0:54:58] Voice 9: yeah uh thank you for that william um yeah i certainly found uh uh these charts to be

[0:55:05] Voice 9: very interesting i i really the the color-coded um physical timeline local trust area chart

[0:55:12] Voice 9: i thought was really helpful really helped me visualize sort of where where things have

[0:55:17] Voice 9: happened and and yeah uh and i totally appreciate that uh anything to do with fresh water you wind

[0:55:23] Voice 9: up touching on all sorts of interconnected issues there's no there is no way to to sort of silo that

[0:55:29] Voice 9: bits of those bits of knowledge so and i yeah my hat is off to you in terms of how daunting a task

[0:55:35] Voice 9: that is to examine um i did initially i i did my first pass i struggled with the second chart

[0:55:44] Voice 9: which as you say is is complex um but i did figure out i did get thrown off by the one green square

[0:55:49] Voice 9: i was like what does this mean is it supposed to be different i don't know um right so

[0:55:56] Voice 16: i should have chose gray or something because it just means

[0:55:59] Voice 16: that we have touched upon

[0:56:00] Voice 16: that you know it's not the fact that it's completed or not it's just that that was that

[0:56:06] Voice 16: action was a component of those projects yeah

[0:56:08] Voice 9: yeah and i i got that eventually from like the

[0:56:10] Voice 9: context but it took i was like what does this mean there's no there's no legend yeah that's a fair

[0:56:15] Voice 16: fair

[0:56:16] Voice 9: that's totally fine but uh yeah i mean i i think and i really appreciate um you know the

[0:56:23] Voice 9: consideration in terms of like we want to make sure that this work which is really important i

[0:56:28] Voice 9: think all of us understand how important water is on the islands and i i think it is really

[0:56:32] Voice 9: important that this work gets done uh to the fullest extent of you know and is resourced

[0:56:37] Voice 9: properly. I'm glad that Planner Chadwick is being an asset to Gabriela. And yeah, I definitely would

[0:56:45] Voice 9: want to make sure that we see this done properly, which may mean waiting until there's more capacity

[0:56:51] Voice 9: at the regional planning level. Yeah, I would invite a comment from Director Cermak in a moment

[0:56:59] Voice 9: on that case. I know Trustee Graham has just raised his hand. The last thing I would say on

[0:57:06] Voice 9: And this is, yeah, I mean, I very much would look forward to seeing what you guys come up with in November in terms of a strategic approach to getting this work done.

[0:57:19] Voice 9: But I'll perhaps see, I'm going to go to the trustees first and then Director Cermak, if you've got comments, maybe there'll be more things to respond to.

[0:57:28] Voice 9: Trustee Graham.

[0:57:30] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair.

[0:57:30] Voice 11: Sure. Yeah, I really appreciate the charts, William. That really helps me. That's how I process information in my own world. And I did find the second chart a little difficult to figure out, but I figured out eventually. And I had the same question about that little green square.

[0:57:48] Voice 11: And I want to thank you for your consideration of budget and project management after the results of Gabriel's work.

[0:57:58] Voice 11: I think that makes perfect sense.

[0:58:00] Voice 11: I know there's a lot of concern on the islands about water, but let's do the best job that we can.

[0:58:04] Voice 11: I think you've gone through the rationale as to why that your timing works.

[0:58:07] Voice 11: So I appreciate your effort and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[0:58:13] Voice 11: Thank you for your comment.

[0:58:14] Voice 11: Thank

[0:58:23] Trustee Luckham: you, Chair, and thank you, William, as always, for your great professional work.

[0:58:31] Trustee Luckham: And I apologize if I missed this in your summary, because I was distracted by another email.

[0:58:37] Trustee Luckham: But the Cowichan Valley Regional District has this groundwater sustainability strategy that

[0:58:46] Trustee Luckham: that is going on that came up in a taxation question

[0:58:50] Trustee Luckham: the other day here on Cetus Island.

[0:58:52] Trustee Luckham: And are you engaging with them at all in this work?

[0:58:57] Voice 16: Yeah, interesting timing.

[0:58:59] Voice 16: So I have been, I was part of their,

[0:59:03] Voice 16: I wasn't part of their development before the referendum,

[0:59:08] Voice 16: but right after the referendum,

[0:59:10] Voice 16: random um i was a part of of them setting up their their monitoring system it was like i think they

[0:59:17] Voice 16: called it the climate action group and then they had another one a monitoring group and groups and

[0:59:21] Voice 16: groups and groups so i was part of that in the first few years and then it it's kind of gone

[0:59:26] Voice 16: silent for a while and it just so happened today um that um that i got an email and trustee elliot

[0:59:36] Voice 16: had got an email i believe you're the the chair of fetus uh ltc yeah and and then they erroneously

[0:59:42] Voice 16: sent it to kate emmings but i forwarded to stephan uh sir mac because they're looking for the director

[0:59:47] Voice 16: and so they're asking us to um they're looking to strike up a technical advisory committee

[0:59:53] Voice 16: very similar to the regional districts of nanaima's drinking water and watershed protection program

[0:59:58] Voice 16: so

[0:59:59] Voice 16: So...

[1:00:00] Voice 16: that said, every opportunity I got, I advocated to get work done on Thetis because Thetis is part

[1:00:09] Voice 16: of that taxation. And to my understanding, it really hasn't happened unless they've done like

[1:00:14] Voice 16: some regional looks at processing desktop information or something like that. But

[1:00:19] Voice 16: to date, I'm unsure if there are actual work on the ground there. So through the technical

[1:00:28] Voice 16: a co-advisor to me i'm actually really interested that they send it to an elected official because

[1:00:32] Voice 16: there's no elected officials on the regional district of unimos group it's all staff like

[1:00:38] Voice 16: staff from the different municipalities uh town engineers water people whatever um so if they

[1:00:45] Voice 16: that might be an interesting uh inroad to really advocate for thetis so yeah my answer is yes i

[1:00:52] Voice 16: have been involved and it was quiet for a while and now it looks like it's picking up again

[1:00:56] Voice 16: and and i believe that the regional districts have the i mean they're in the best case to take on

[1:01:04] Voice 16: things like monitoring right because that's what the regional district and i was doing

[1:01:09] Voice 16: um so we'll see how that rolls out um but they've been really the one thing about their uh their

[1:01:16] Voice 16: requisition is that they are allowed to stockpile money from year after year so i think they've just

[1:01:22] Voice 16: been not knowing how they want to spend it and i i think it's 750 000 a year and they've not been

[1:01:27] Voice 16: spending a lot of it so i think they're sitting on several million dollars to to roll out big projects

[1:01:33] Voice 16: and so if there's a big monitoring project rolling out you can you can be assured that i'll be

[1:01:38] Voice 16: advocating for for the thetis ltc um yeah so i hope that answers your question trustee welcome

[1:01:46] Voice 16: Well,

[1:01:47] Trustee Luckham: it does. I'm happy about the early work. I'm disappointed with the current status, but

[1:01:53] Trustee Luckham: I suspect that the email that has gone out is because there's been a fairly thorough review

[1:01:58] Trustee Luckham: of regional district line item taxes to Thetis, and that one and a half percent would be good

[1:02:05] Trustee Luckham: news if they're stockpiling it up for a bigger body of work. But I suspect that maybe that

[1:02:11] Trustee Luckham: that inquiry by a citizen has maybe stimulated somebody

[1:02:14] Trustee Luckham: asking that some of those questions.

[1:02:16] Trustee Luckham: So that's good, thank you for that.

[1:02:19] Voice 9: Okay, very good.

[1:02:21] Voice 9: And yes, I noticed that they had arrived

[1:02:23] Voice 9: earlier in the meeting and I forgot

[1:02:25] Voice 9: after William's presentation that we need to welcome

[1:02:28] Voice 9: Trustee Larone and I understand

[1:02:31] Voice 9: that they have something to say.

[1:02:36] Voice 4: Good morning, everyone.

[1:02:39] Voice 4: Can you hear me all right?

[1:02:40] Voice 4: Yep. Yeah.

[1:02:42] Voice 4: Fantastic. I have a question for William. I was just wondering where the staff report from the

[1:02:47] Voice 4: resolution from last term is on this map, if we have this just to kind of as a comparison to where

[1:02:53] Voice 4: we were, where we are, where the progress is going.

[1:02:57] Voice 16: Sorry, I don't understand your question.

[1:03:01] Voice 16: Can you repeat

[1:03:02] Voice 4: it? Yeah, sorry, I talk too fast. So from last term, like the staff report of

[1:03:09] Voice 4: of where we were a few years ago

[1:03:14] Voice 4: with the resolutions regarding the fresh water,

[1:03:19] Voice 4: where, do we have that?

[1:03:21] Voice 4: Do we just as a kind of a way to track our progress

[1:03:24] Voice 4: with where we're going and where we've been?

[1:03:30] Voice 16: So can I just maybe,

[1:03:38] Voice 16: I don't know if that word is relate back to you.

[1:03:41] Voice 16: what you're asking. So I believe you're, Rob, can you go back up to the resolutions, please?

[1:03:49] Voice 16: He's not sleeping. Thanks, buddy. Down a little bit. So this was the resolution. I hope I'm

[1:03:58] Voice 16: answering right. If not, just jump right in. So there was a resolution at the Regional Planning

[1:04:04] Voice 16: Committee, I just believe it was last meeting, that asked for a review and status of all past

[1:04:10] Voice 16: and current projects undertaken by the strategy.

[1:04:13] Voice 16: And this briefing was attempting to address that.

[1:04:20] Voice 16: So there are some past projects in the analysis section of this briefing

[1:04:25] Voice 16: that just provides like a really brief, because this is not a staff report,

[1:04:30] Voice 16: so it's a real brief description of what those projects are.

[1:04:33] Voice 16: And then the two attachments to this briefing tried to describe which projects were undertaken and in what years and in what local trust committees were impacted or where the project was completed on.

[1:04:53] Voice 16: And I'm wondering if that's what you're asking for or asking to?

[1:05:01] Voice 6: Yes, more or less.

[1:05:05] Voice 9: Yeah, my sense here is that Trustee Laroni is asking if there is like a comparable report from the previous term. I think my understanding of this report is that it sort of already provides a bit of a timeline. But correct me if I'm wrong, Mikayla, but you're looking for like a past snapshot that would relate to this one?

[1:05:35] Voice 4: Yes, exactly that.

[1:05:36] Voice 4: that okay

[1:05:37] Voice 9: so my understanding yeah that my my read of this is that this report sort of

[1:05:43] Voice 9: contains that to some degree um but yeah william if you've got i

[1:05:48] Voice 16: i believe i understand uh like

[1:05:51] Voice 16: a report from last term like exactly regional planning committee uh likely i mean uh i'll look

[1:05:58] Voice 16: for sure um to see what how we presented on as i said in like i was i think i was very humble and

[1:06:05] Voice 16: clear in the I guess this is from the February meeting that we have done a poor job on reporting

[1:06:11] Voice 16: back to the regional planning committee on you know on the work but the the last push from the

[1:06:20] Voice 16: last regional planning committee is is actually the strategy like that's where you know the

[1:06:25] Voice 16: majority of our work was tied up in there and there's a lot of reporting on the progress of

[1:06:28] Voice 16: developing the strategy and I think the most confusing thing about that is that my projects

[1:06:33] Voice 16: were ongoing during the strategy development that we're trying to capture those ongoing projects so

[1:06:38] Voice 16: yeah i mean it it it's it's quite complex i i would i like and also uh there's there's there's

[1:06:48] Voice 16: also a statement in the director's report right uh to trust council on freshwater it's it's been

[1:06:54] Voice 16: a standing item in the director's report so so there it kind of just shows on a i think a quarterly

[1:06:59] Voice 16: basis what's going on um as as far as like a full-on comprehensive what what have we done i

[1:07:07] Voice 16: know that i didn't take that on uh as as a as like a full-on staff report um what what i would

[1:07:16] Voice 16: maybe suggest is that if if if the regional planning committee finds that this briefing

[1:07:21] Voice 16: is not satisfactory to to understand where we came from um and and if you want a little bit

[1:07:29] Voice 16: bit more on that than when we come back in November to like where are we going piece the

[1:07:35] Voice 16: implementation plan I can provide more analysis I'm just always cautioned I always provide too

[1:07:42] Voice 16: much and then it's and it gets reviewed away and so I'm always cautious of of how much I'm putting

[1:07:49] Voice 16: in there um but what I what um to to that point um this year what I'm doing with with several of

[1:07:57] Voice 16: the big projects like the recharge project and and a lot of the groundwater i'm since those

[1:08:02] Voice 16: projects were done over many years by the same consultant but a little different flavor each

[1:08:07] Voice 16: time i'm going to provide a compendium staff report that discusses those projects and have

[1:08:13] Voice 16: the attachments of all those projects so that's coming at the end of this fiscal year um and that

[1:08:19] Voice 16: will be very involved right so that that's if you want to really get into the meat of the groundwater

[1:08:23] Voice 16: water work that's going to be coming um but if you know if i can either take it as a resolution

[1:08:29] Voice 16: or take it as a signal that that the rpc needs a little bit more about where we've come from i can

[1:08:36] Voice 16: put that in in the in i guess it'll be a request for decision coming up in november for the

[1:08:42] Voice 16: implementation plan um so i'm open to hearing about that thank

[1:08:48] Voice 9: you for that yeah uh yeah i think

[1:08:50] Voice 9: i mean i think the key thing is it's important for us to know uh what you're doing so that so

[1:08:54] Voice 9: So that we can support you fully, you know, we want the work you're doing is very important, and we need it for the work we need to do. And so yeah, we just want to make sure that we're able to support you and prioritize our, our attention to help you. Trustee Elliott.

[1:09:12] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, this is a great conversation because we're trying to marry a strategic plan from last term and sort of an unknown number of goals and objectives and what were those actions while work was being undertaken.

[1:09:28] Trustee Elliott: taken. And I do understand more, you know, after we've had dialogue with you, William, that it is

[1:09:39] Trustee Elliott: really hard to identify concrete actions that tie to those larger goals, because it kind of as you

[1:09:45] Trustee Elliott: map things out, it keeps expanding, and you learn, you know, this, this in phase one, and then you

[1:09:50] Trustee Elliott: need to do this in phase two. But you can't always report back to a body or a committee because it's

[1:09:55] Trustee Elliott: ongoing work. I guess what I want to see us do going forward, and this is for I think everyone's

[1:10:04] Trustee Elliott: benefit, is that we tie direction and decisions by a body such as RPC. So the resolutions that

[1:10:14] Trustee Elliott: were made in the past and that we would make today are better tied to the resources that

[1:10:22] Trustee Elliott: are allocated to a project so we can go in front of our community so if we're allocating staff

[1:10:31] Trustee Elliott: resources to do something a decision-making body needs to understand that so that we can go in

[1:10:37] Trustee Elliott: front of our communities and say this is what the islands trust is doing with your tax dollars

[1:10:42] Trustee Elliott: and you know next year we'll need more tax dollars because the project is going this way

[1:10:47] Trustee Elliott: and we're going to need to fund a consultant and so i think there hasn't been a good understanding

[1:10:51] Trustee Elliott: of the work and how resources were allocated because it was ongoing because we came into the

[1:10:59] Trustee Elliott: strategy last year last term strategy so it's it's really not you know i i'm not wanting you

[1:11:07] Trustee Elliott: to tie yourself in knots writing reports but it's to we need concrete justification for why

[1:11:16] Trustee Elliott: why we're doing this work and that does need to be more plain so that our communities which are

[1:11:23] Trustee Elliott: funding this work can understand and support it so a i'm in favor of using concrete projects that

[1:11:32] Trustee Elliott: will demonstrate the value of the work so gabriel a case study i mean yay it's my own community

[1:11:37] Trustee Elliott: so of course i'm going to be in favor of it um uh but the more that we can document

[1:11:45] Trustee Elliott: those projects and tie it back to our decision whatever committee or islands trust council

[1:11:56] Trustee Elliott: said we need to do this that provides safety for you as staff to continue doing that work because

[1:12:03] Trustee Elliott: otherwise i feel like we're on a very tenuous limb and and i don't have the confidence to

[1:12:11] Trustee Elliott: report back to my community on on what's happening so i guess what i'm saying is um i guess so

[1:12:19] Trustee Elliott: looking at page 46 here uh when we talk about groundwater recharge mapping project we're going

[1:12:24] Trustee Elliott: to see a compendium report from staff that collates all reports and information from every

[1:12:29] Trustee Elliott: fiscal year um that is great i would also like to see what were the um resolutions or decision

[1:12:39] Trustee Elliott: you know decisions made by which body to drive that work is that possible um

[1:12:46] Voice 16: yeah i mean it's

[1:12:48] Voice 16: okay i mean it i okay yeah so the the the groundwater recharge project is a great example

[1:12:58] Voice 16: um because i saw the finish line you know before anybody you know and so every year i tried my best

[1:13:10] Voice 16: to get a little bit more work done to get to the finish line so the the first part of the

[1:13:17] Voice 16: groundwater recharge mapping project was a project of five ltcs in southern gulf islands

[1:13:22] Voice 16: and so that was after i did a roundabout of of groundwater workshops in that area to generate

[1:13:30] Voice 16: interest on those islands and get the trustees along and then they all harmonize together

[1:13:35] Voice 16: to have one project on five ltcs i don't even know if that has even happened before

[1:13:41] Voice 16: um and then and then the next year it was a project of the rpc that undertook gabriel

[1:13:47] Voice 16: adamant and hornby and then we did the the house sound and those and those three regions oh and

[1:13:53] Voice 16: first it started off with salt spring island because i live here and and and i spoke with the

[1:13:57] Voice 16: local trust community at the time and they passed a resolution to give me i think it was like two

[1:14:02] Voice 16: thousand dollars or something like that just to test it out so and and before that just to

[1:14:08] Voice 16: have a full circle just discussion of what that is i was sitting in the regional district and i

[1:14:12] Voice 16: was drinking water and watershed protection program technical advisor committee meeting

[1:14:16] Voice 16: and i had a presentation of of a provincial staff that did the work on england englishman river and

[1:14:23] Voice 16: i said this is great work i can see this working on the on the gulf islands and that was five years

[1:14:27] Voice 16: ago so so like there there's a really good story there on how it started off with pretty much a

[1:14:34] Voice 16: student's idea and how i we developed it with a consultant over time with money and all that

[1:14:39] Voice 16: stuff and there's dollar figures on each year of course and there's resolutions and business cases

[1:14:43] Voice 16: for each year um i i'm not sure if like okay i can bring all those together for you in in in

[1:14:53] Voice 16: that compendium which was not my scope i was just going to look at the actual work and if that is

[1:14:58] Voice 16: something that will uh help the rpc make decisions to to carry on the implementation then then that's

[1:15:07] Voice 16: something that the staff can take on it's a boatload of work to do so and but i don't mind

[1:15:11] Voice 16: doing it if that's something that the rpc really wants i see that stefan's kind of popped up here

[1:15:16] Trustee Elliott: with his hands before you you jump in

[1:15:18] Trustee Elliott: stefan and um it is a boatload of work and i i don't want to

[1:15:22] Trustee Elliott: do meaningless work but where it integrates with the where the rest of the island stress is going

[1:15:27] Trustee Elliott: is this corporate planning process that better could take something like a multi-year freshwater

[1:15:34] Trustee Elliott: strategy or the reconciliation action plan and how does it fit in with staff you know allocating

[1:15:41] Trustee Elliott: staff resources year over year so we have to learn from what we've done here I'm not criticizing how

[1:15:47] Trustee Elliott: the work has evolved but somehow it has to fit into the corporate planning process which is where

[1:15:53] Trustee Elliott: where the islands trust is going. So do you get where I'm sure?

[1:15:56] Voice 16: And that's your

[1:15:57] Trustee Elliott: max job rather than yours.

[1:16:01] Trustee Elliott: Yeah,

[1:16:02] Voice 16: no, I, I, yeah. I mean, I, I would say I'm not just like, I,

[1:16:05] Voice 16: I do very little science, like facilitating all this work. So I, you know,

[1:16:10] Voice 16: I'm a, I'm a senior project manager here and,

[1:16:13] Voice 16: and trying to find money to undertake the work and working very close with

[1:16:17] Voice 16: elected officials. So I do understand that, that this, that would,

[1:16:21] Voice 16: what what what antidote i will say to that is that the current freshwater balance work i i wrote it

[1:16:27] Voice 16: into the request for proposal what's going out this week or next week sorry or soon um on on

[1:16:33] Voice 16: doing just that like this is not just a gabriola project that's not what trust council funded right

[1:16:39] Voice 16: and that's not that your your consideration going into this is like uh you know you wanted to see

[1:16:45] Voice 16: how does impact federation rather than just gabriola and that's why the project is the

[1:16:50] Voice 16: islands trust area fresh water balance methodology project with gabriel as a case study right like

[1:16:55] Voice 16: we're so in that work the the consultants and and i should like i'm not overstepping myself here

[1:17:02] Voice 16: there's a technical consultant and there's a community coordination consultant that are going

[1:17:06] Voice 16: to be working together right and through that with staff we will be doing a data gap analysis

[1:17:13] Voice 16: a cost analysis and a like a logistic analysis on how to take on this work to the rest of the

[1:17:19] Voice 16: trust area so that is going to then show how do we take on this because it's obviously a multi-year

[1:17:26] Voice 16: project right so i can say hey sit and wait for that and that's one of the reasons why i took

[1:17:33] Voice 16: back my business case because we want to see the outcome of that work and strategically work

[1:17:38] Voice 16: through it you know in the next 12 months um but i can also do the look back thing on the

[1:17:44] Voice 16: research projects i know it really well and i can go back and i can look at all the resolutions you

[1:17:48] Voice 16: you know, and, and I can bring forward all the business cases.

[1:17:51] Voice 16: We can do a tally of all the money. It's, it's something that's possible,

[1:17:55] Voice 16: but I,

[1:17:55] Voice 16: I think I'm going to stop because this is really Stefan's territory because

[1:17:59] Voice 16: you could say, well, you're not doing that. So let me just, if,

[1:18:05] Voice 16: if, if I may chair, just kind of yield here.

[1:18:09] Voice 9: No, absolutely. And, and, and thank you.

[1:18:11] Voice 9: Cause I think your, your perspective on that side of things is,

[1:18:14] Voice 9: is important. And yeah, I mean, trusty LA is absolutely right.

[1:18:17] Voice 9: this is the way that we want to move this forward. It should be tied into that long-term corporate

[1:18:22] Voice 9: plan. Director Cermak, I'm sure you've got lots to say.

[1:18:28] Voice 12: No, really, Mr. Chair, but I do like

[1:18:31] Voice 12: William's yield. Sorry if I found myself smiling to that. I want to be, I'm in harmony with you

[1:18:39] Voice 12: about the corporate plan. The whole purpose of orientating towards a corporate plan within which

[1:18:45] Voice 12: is the strategic plan is so i think william's work and the work that he's worked with the team of

[1:18:51] Voice 12: people that he's been involved with with fresh water i can't imagine personally anything more

[1:18:56] Voice 12: important for the island's trust area in terms of managing the uh preserve and protect mandate

[1:19:00] Voice 12: whether it's for you know human development and growth or for preserving protecting the

[1:19:05] Voice 12: environment so i think a huge kudos to william and his team and and i honor him for that

[1:19:11] Voice 12: that he's under resourced.

[1:19:13] Voice 12: He had to pull back his work

[1:19:16] Voice 12: in order to reflect that reality.

[1:19:18] Voice 12: And I know it was tough to do,

[1:19:21] Voice 12: but thank you William for doing it.

[1:19:22] Voice 12: And I thank you to the RPC for understanding that.

[1:19:25] Voice 12: The corporate planning process should be able

[1:19:27] Voice 12: to help us strategize over a longer period of time

[1:19:31] Voice 12: in order to accomplish some of these strategies.

[1:19:33] Voice 12: But I don't wanna put the cart before the horse

[1:19:35] Voice 12: and ask William to do the work

[1:19:38] Voice 12: or Rob, who's listening and managing our screen,

[1:19:41] Voice 12: probably get him to help do that.

[1:19:43] Voice 12: So heads up, Mr. Croker,

[1:19:46] Voice 12: that the assemblage of this type of work

[1:19:49] Voice 12: without a more concrete purpose and fleshed out report

[1:19:53] Voice 12: that can inform the corporate plan

[1:19:55] Voice 12: or strategic plan or what have you.

[1:19:57] Voice 12: So I'd just like to kind of pause.

[1:19:59] Voice 12: I think it's an excellent discussion

[1:20:00] Voice 12: and I think it's inevitably going to happen

[1:20:02] Voice 12: in one way or another,

[1:20:03] Voice 12: but we're still feeling our way

[1:20:05] Voice 12: through the corporate planning process

[1:20:07] Voice 12: and what looks like and how to do it and I don't want to tell us how to do it

[1:20:10] Voice 12: before everybody knows how to do it if you know what I mean so I just don't

[1:20:15] Voice 12: want to send William away or robbed it away to do work assembling a lot of

[1:20:19] Voice 12: information that may or may not be sort of accurate or useful but I want to

[1:20:24] Voice 12: assure this RPC that you know when my directors work that I have to do for the

[1:20:29] Voice 12: corporate planning that fresh water will be front and center and all that work it

[1:20:33] Voice 12: as a strategic priority of this team as as assigned by the trust council and that one way or

[1:20:39] Voice 12: another it'll happen i just don't know exactly what it looks like so i just caution against

[1:20:43] Voice 12: asking us to do work that may be i'm doing a lot of work that may not be precisely the way the

[1:20:49] Voice 12: corporate planning process unfolds so that is my my big speech so you're right i would probably

[1:20:55] Voice 12: tell william to stand down for the time period and

[1:20:58] Voice 9: thank you for that director yeah my my inclination

[1:21:01] Voice 9: here is uh i think this this this briefing was very useful to me in terms of understanding what

[1:21:09] Voice 9: has been done i'm looking forward in november to seeing uh what william is is proposing in terms

[1:21:15] Voice 9: of priorities for for going forward um and my my request or my my and this is not an official

[1:21:23] Voice 9: request but my my dream would be that uh you know that director cermak you can do what you can to

[1:21:31] Voice 9: to make sure that William is well supported

[1:21:33] Voice 9: in the reporting out aspect

[1:21:36] Voice 9: so that William can focus

[1:21:40] Voice 9: on that project management component

[1:21:42] Voice 9: and then make sure that how that reporting out

[1:21:46] Voice 9: gets done to RPC,

[1:21:47] Voice 9: that is part of the role of the director,

[1:21:52] Voice 9: but I'm maybe overstepping myself

[1:21:54] Voice 9: in terms of expressing that.

[1:21:57] Voice 9: Trustee Elliott.

[1:21:58] Voice 9: um

[1:22:00] Trustee Elliott: so i'm going to rebut just a little bit uh director sir mac um the corporate plan

[1:22:06] Trustee Elliott: is being developed but it is not meant to be a framework that is imposed

[1:22:12] Trustee Elliott: on departments necessarily it should be informed by um how things work currently

[1:22:23] Trustee Elliott: and how they could be better optimized to be more efficient and to be more transparent

[1:22:29] Trustee Elliott: parent, I believe. So I do think that it's important to understand, even if we don't

[1:22:36] Trustee Elliott: require a report, but we need to understand when we make a lofty goal, such as determine all the

[1:22:46] Trustee Elliott: freshwater resources in the Islands Trust area and develop, you know, a methodology for determining

[1:22:52] Trustee Elliott: where did you know where we can handle more housing how that works out in terms of who does

[1:23:01] Trustee Elliott: the work how much it's going to cost that is valuable information that needs to feed into

[1:23:07] Trustee Elliott: our corporate plan going forward so we actually need to understand when we set out to do a large

[1:23:13] Trustee Elliott: body of work what did not get done because we didn't have the staff resources or we applied

[1:23:19] Trustee Elliott: We applied for this grant, but we didn't have the planning staff to do the back end. That informs our corporate plan going forward. We can't miss that information because Trust Council keeps making these wonderful lofty decisions. You know, we have to do this work. It's very important work, but it's not necessarily been tied to how much is it going to cost, who is going to do it. And that's what the corporate plan is meant to do.

[1:23:44] Trustee Elliott: So I'm not so much looking for, you know, a blow by blow, this resolution resulted in this piece of work. It's what was missed, what was unachievable, what needed to be rolled into future years, you know, what are the learnings?

[1:24:04] Trustee Elliott: And so I'm not sure how to capture that, but I think it is valuable information for Trust Council in general, and I think it should feed into the corporate plan.

[1:24:15] Trustee Elliott: So that's more where I'm coming from, is taking this, just like reconciliation, just like housing, broad multi-year projects have to be tied to realistic implementation plans.

[1:24:29] Trustee Elliott: lands i think that's what's um and and and i hope we're going to see that so thanks for listening

[1:24:40] Voice 9: director sir mike you did have your hand up you've taken it down william if you want to

[1:24:45] Voice 9: speak a little more i would do you want to not dwell on this indefinitely but let's yeah what

[1:24:49] Voice 9: have you got yeah

[1:24:50] Voice 16: yeah sure uh so yeah so i i believe like i'm not in one to to dive into the

[1:24:59] Voice 16: Islands Trust Corporate Planning, or at least I haven't been asked to yet. What I was deeply

[1:25:05] Voice 16: involved in was the development of the strategy, which was the freshwater sustainability strategy.

[1:25:09] Voice 16: We're supposed to do that very thing. One thing that fell short in was implementation planning,

[1:25:14] Voice 16: because we didn't know what the will of the elected officials would be going forward.

[1:25:21] Voice 16: And I think there's certain elements of that strategy that we could develop.

[1:25:26] Voice 16: like, you know, the, I'm just reading it right off my screen here, the interdepartmental

[1:25:31] Voice 16: implementation team, a technical advisory committee, and then the next one was reporting.

[1:25:36] Voice 16: And, and these things were, you know, successful as strategy implementation require engaging with

[1:25:41] Voice 16: existing organizational structures and systems and creating new ones.

[1:25:44] Voice 16: And I think that's exactly what

[1:25:46] Voice 16: Trustee Elliott is speaking to here. I think that what I can do is in my, I'm writing a compendium

[1:25:54] Voice 16: recharge mapping project report for sure i was going to focus more on the technical aspect of

[1:26:00] Voice 16: that but in the background i can go through what we did in each fiscal and and how much

[1:26:07] Voice 16: you know like where the resourcing came from and who was the like the managing political body for

[1:26:14] Voice 16: that um you know i i will leave it at this though every year was a fight for money and every year

[1:26:21] Voice 16: the freshwater projects were on the cutting floor table at trust council every year right

[1:26:28] Voice 16: so much so that one year you know our our previous ceo went around and tried to convince trustees

[1:26:35] Voice 16: that this is the good thing to do and it's like for me as an operational staff member i'm like

[1:26:39] Voice 16: well there's something wrong there right and and so if if there was like in our request for

[1:26:45] Voice 16: decision that we pulled back for this like i said we should go and present the freshwater

[1:26:49] Voice 16: water balance project to the fpc after like like on the request of the rpc to say this is what this

[1:26:55] Voice 16: project is because often they get these big budgets and they're like we don't even know what

[1:26:58] Voice 16: this is why do we want it you know and and there's there's this lack of stewardship from the rps like

[1:27:05] Voice 16: from staff all the way to the to the last budget request item you know there's there's there's

[1:27:11] Voice 16: there's missing pieces all through there and then i understand the difficult decision that

[1:27:16] Voice 16: trustees would have to make by, you know, trying to, they're trying to their best to lower the

[1:27:20] Voice 16: budget and looking at these big budget items. And it's like, how, like, even if we can see that this

[1:27:25] Voice 16: is strategic, what is

[1:27:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it, what is this

[1:27:27] Voice 16: thing, you know, and, and, you know, that's a significant

[1:27:31] Voice 16: challenge. And I, and I honestly don't know how to overcome that. I think that should be part of

[1:27:35] Voice 16: the discussion of this corporate planning. And, but, you know, that's, I want to be involved,

[1:27:41] Voice 16: but that's obviously not my role right so so if there's a way that in in my reporting back to you

[1:27:48] Voice 16: i can be involved in that um in some way but you know that's that's not my responsibility but i can

[1:27:54] Voice 16: i i can obviously like as a technical staff member facilitate um that process but i and i'll just

[1:28:02] Voice 16: leave it with with you with this is that i think i've done that in the freshwater balance request

[1:28:07] Voice 16: for proposal and i think that project that we're going to be that we're undertaking this year i'm

[1:28:11] Voice 16: not saying we're going to it's been I've been in the project planning process for six months

[1:28:16] Voice 16: because I want to get it right and I and I want it to be something that that the trustees can

[1:28:21] Voice 16: look at and they say we understand this roadmap now on why we're taking this project over many

[1:28:26] Voice 16: years and why we have to have multiple year budgets right and and why that's important to

[1:28:31] Voice 16: not just drop it in the second year going into a new term you know it's it's so so I I hope I

[1:28:38] Voice 16: I hope through that work and Trustee Elliott will have the benefit of being involved in

[1:28:45] Voice 16: the workshops that are associated with that project.

[1:28:49] Voice 16: And so the Gabriel LTC will be taken along in that journey with us, right?

[1:28:55] Voice 16: So, and it will be open to any trustee and staff and public, those workshops.

[1:29:00] Voice 16: So, you know, there's that opportunity there to see what this is, this freshwater balance.

[1:29:05] Voice 16: and and and that's saying freshwater balance is a term new term right and and same with the

[1:29:12] Voice 16: recharge mapping project this is novel science never been done before it's not like we're just

[1:29:16] Voice 16: clicking boxes the problem set out for us this is novel new work and i think to date it's been

[1:29:24] Voice 16: really successful and we learned a lot and and so i think we're in good shape to just carry on the

[1:29:30] Voice 16: strategy and do good work. I think we just need to be strategic in our resourcing. Yeah.

[1:29:35] Voice 9: Yeah. And I think my understanding of moving into this corporate planning process is that we will

[1:29:42] Voice 9: be able to hopefully protect the ongoing work from year to year and take some of that stuff

[1:29:51] Voice 9: and sort of prioritize based on that. And yeah, figuring out ways to make sure that that work is

[1:29:59] Voice 9: We'll be right back.

[1:30:00] Voice 9: is able to go forward as smoothly and with as much confidence as possible,

[1:30:03] Voice 9: I think is important and should be important to us as trustees is,

[1:30:08] Voice 9: is ensuring that staff are empowered and, you know,

[1:30:12] Voice 9: appropriately resourced. Part of that is also recognizing, you know,

[1:30:16] Voice 9: the limitations and not everything is going to be perfect, but, you know,

[1:30:19] Voice 9: making sure there's stuff that really matters.

[1:30:22] Voice 9: It's long-term support from us as a, as a decision-making body,

[1:30:26] Voice 9: I think is, is very valuable. And again, communication is key to that.

[1:30:30] Voice 9: And I think we're moving forward, and this briefing to me was very useful.

[1:30:35] Voice 9: And yeah, there's going to be more.

[1:30:37] Voice 9: We're going to be doing more of this discussion.

[1:30:40] Voice 9: So I am looking at our agenda, and our next big piece is the bylaw compliance and enforcement policy review updates.

[1:30:50] Voice 9: I'm also looking at the timing.

[1:30:52] Voice 9: It is 1130.

[1:30:54] Voice 9: and if there is a desire for a break uh i was going to suggest that perhaps you're going to

[1:31:02] Voice 9: seek the guidance of the rest of the committee do we want to take a break now and come back in

[1:31:07] Voice 9: to do bylaw enforcement in a little bit or do we want to plow on and get her done but yeah if any

[1:31:14] Voice 9: of the other trustees have input on that i'm open to hearing your your thoughts uh trustee elliot

[1:31:25] Voice 9: I will

[1:31:25] Trustee Elliott: just jump in. Could I ask, maybe we could have a briefing from staff to present the report and then we could think about things and have a break.

[1:31:34] Trustee Elliott: That

[1:31:35] Voice 9: would be fine with me. Tressie Campbell?

[1:31:38] Voice 7: I was just going to say plow, but I'm good with that.

[1:31:43] Voice 9: Well, that is the farming instinct, I suppose.

[1:31:46] Voice 9: I suppose. Yeah, I think I'm open. Is everyone happy to have a briefing? And then I don't know if that cuts up your time too much, Warren, but if that's workable for you, I'm happy to go forward that way.

[1:32:03] Voice 12: Mr. Chair, I'll be presenting this report.

[1:32:05] Voice 9: Oh, pardon me. Never mind. Stefan, does that cut your time off too much?

[1:32:10] Voice 12: No. I present reports really quickly. And the reason I do so, Mr. Chair, is I assume

[1:32:17] Voice 12: everybody's read it. And don't get me wrong, I've been doing this for a while. I know not

[1:32:21] Voice 12: everybody has time to read it, so I'm not that foolish. But I will make that assumption.

[1:32:25] Voice 12: And the reason I make that assumption for this report is because it's quite detailed.

[1:32:30] Voice 12: Not the briefing, but the attachments to it. And so what you have presented before you

[1:32:36] Voice 12: is the work of bio-enforcement with planning staff went through a detailed assessment as per

[1:32:42] Voice 12: the trust council resolution and direction to amend the existing bio-enforcement policies

[1:32:48] Voice 12: the existing best practices of bio-enforcement and as well as to change the policy in regards

[1:32:56] Voice 12: to administrative fairness to reflect an easier path and clearer path in regards to the public

[1:33:03] Voice 12: making complaints about staff because we heard that there's a sort of component element to that

[1:33:07] Voice 12: as well so you have that that report before you you'll see that there's the most significant

[1:33:14] Voice 12: things i mean it's pretty straightforward to amend the process you have a red line report

[1:33:18] Voice 12: for both things there so you can see precisely what staff did so and then you also have a clean

[1:33:22] Voice 12: copy if you prefer reading clean copies lord knows i like that and probably the biggest changes aside

[1:33:29] Voice 12: aside from, you know, nuancing to what the ombudsperson office has said, is the use of

[1:33:34] Voice 12: discretion, as you spoke about earlier, in talking about the Mudge Island Resident Community

[1:33:40] Voice 12: Association, Micah, and as well as this talk about the frivolous and vexatious complainants,

[1:33:49] Voice 12: and taking all those, putting into the policy, and then as well, as you talked about last time,

[1:33:56] Voice 12: you amended the project charter which of course we're going to take it to trust council for them

[1:34:01] Voice 12: to approve that project charter amendment and that is the LTC level where most of the

[1:34:07] Voice 12: bylaw enforcement happens or if not all and that in that project chart or partner in that is the

[1:34:14] Voice 12: use of that LTC policy instead of standing resolutions to direct bylaw enforcement now

[1:34:20] Voice 12: having a policy where it's all packaged to one spot and you can discuss and amend and update

[1:34:25] Voice 12: It is a much cleaner effective approach, you have already heard from Manager Dingman about

[1:34:31] Voice 12: his use of that.

[1:34:32] Voice 12: It has gone to a couple of LTCs for discussion and I believe one has adopted it.

[1:34:37] Voice 12: It was asked to be put on pause, that method, due to this getting Trust Council approval

[1:34:42] Voice 12: to approve the direction.

[1:34:45] Voice 12: Other than that, it is really what it is, it is basic formatting, it is minor amendments

[1:34:51] Voice 12: amendments to address the ombudspersons. I think it was reviewed by several staff to

[1:34:54] Voice 12: make sure the whole ombudspersons input was received. And again, I commend manager Dingman

[1:35:02] Voice 12: for the simplicity of his approach and the directness of getting local trust committee

[1:35:07] Voice 12: policy template such that the LTCs themselves can manage as per their wishes locally. I

[1:35:13] Voice 12: think it's a much cleaner, effective way to implement this policy. And with that, I'm

[1:35:19] Voice 12: I'm just going to leave it open for questions.

[1:35:20] Voice 12: We do have the planner, Anthony, who is working on it, Anthony Fotino,

[1:35:24] Voice 12: as well as Warren Dingman is standing by to answer any of your questions.

[1:35:30] Voice 12: So I don't know if we go to lunch now or if you want to have it,

[1:35:33] Voice 12: but I promised you I'd be short and sweet.

[1:35:36] Voice 9: Yeah.

[1:35:37] Voice 9: Well, I mean, again, I'd like to, and I appreciate that.

[1:35:42] Voice 9: There's a lot in here.

[1:35:43] Voice 9: here. And I think it's, I think it's, I likewise, I think it's, it's moving in a really good

[1:35:49] Voice 9: direction. I'm keen to see, keen to get into the discussion here. Are any of the trustees feeling

[1:35:56] Voice 9: the desperate need for a break? We could also do a very short sort of five minute runaway to the

[1:36:03] Voice 9: bathroom, do whatever it is you need to do and then come back. Or do people want to continue on?

[1:36:10] Voice 12: Maybe Chair Borthwick if I may just jump in there. You'll see in the recommendations that

[1:36:15] Voice 12: in the conclusion of this discussion, you have options of how to proceed. You can just accept

[1:36:20] Voice 12: as is and forward it to Trust Council. We expect you'll probably want a few minor amendments and

[1:36:25] Voice 12: there's a resolution in the response options section of the report to help you craft whatever

[1:36:30] Voice 12: amendments you would like and then forward to Trust Council. Just so you realize that they're

[1:36:35] Voice 12: all alternatives to how you'd like to proceed and that the wording is in the report to help you do

[1:36:39] Voice 12: that

[1:36:40] Voice 9: yes yeah yeah trustee campbell i

[1:36:47] Voice 7: was just curious at this sort of stage is there

[1:36:52] Voice 7: is there a way to identify what is what which parts of this report are ltc level

[1:37:04] Voice 7: um responses need versus trust council responses need like when we are making recommendations

[1:37:15] Voice 7: um like in this uh i think it was section five we're talking about um inspecting properties when

[1:37:23] Voice 7: there is a complaint uh that would i am assuming is a local trust committee thing that a local

[1:37:31] Voice 7: trust committee would look at determining in their policy that the separate ltc policies that

[1:37:40] Voice 7: that Warren was putting together.

[1:37:44] Voice 7: Is there a way to indicate that in this report

[1:37:49] Voice 7: when it goes to Trust Council?

[1:37:56] Voice 12: I'll turn that question over to Manager Dingman.

[1:38:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So the most straightforward way I can put it

[1:38:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is local trust committees are responsible for enforcement.

[1:38:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: That is their authority.

[1:38:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Trust Council cannot do enforcement.

[1:38:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Trust Council sets trust-wide policies,

[1:38:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: which a lot of them are budget-focused.

[1:38:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: um can taking legal action managing that is really managing the budget uh saying okay only under

[1:38:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: these taking these restrictive measures to limit the number of files that can be opened

[1:38:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and when when investigations can be started that's managing uh the budget issues and then there's the

[1:38:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the trust wide say here are the roles and responsibilities of staff here's the roles

[1:38:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and responsibilities of trustees and local trust committees so the the local trust committee policy

[1:38:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: document is all about what are the priorities on the local level what do they want deferred

[1:39:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: what do they want proactive enforcement on and that includes inspections what type of notice

[1:39:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you want to give for inspections and that whole process indeed how you want the enforcement

[1:39:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: process to go uh whether or not you want to use ben when you want to use it what policies are

[1:39:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you going to give screening officers give them discretion to cancel tickets and uh yeah for me

[1:39:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it just comes down to that

[1:39:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: local trust committees enforce trust council can't enforce so it's more

[1:39:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: broad trust-wide policies that they need to adopt i

[1:39:35] Voice 7: 100 like i get it actually like i i was more

[1:39:39] Voice 7: more more thinking we're we're talking about taking this to trust council and presenting

[1:39:47] Voice 7: this to trust council but in in like in my own conversations with people i don't know that we

[1:39:53] Voice 7: as trustees on a lot of level understand which parts of it like is what i was asking is there

[1:40:03] Voice 7: a way to indicate it in this report when it goes to trust council just so that anybody who

[1:40:10] Voice 7: who hasn't put a bunch of time into trying to understand the difference

[1:40:14] Voice 7: between the two can capture that right off the hop.

[1:40:19] Voice 7: I don't know.

[1:40:20] Voice 7: I was just trying to make it easier for people to understand which parts we

[1:40:25] Voice 7: would consider at trust council and which parts we would consider on our

[1:40:29] Voice 7: local level, because I think it tidies it up.

[1:40:31] Voice 7: It makes it way easier for you.

[1:40:34] Voice 7: If people understand that they're not, you know,

[1:40:37] Voice 7: it's not a trust council issue.

[1:40:39] Voice 7: it's something that they can handle at the local level that that's i i don't know i was just

[1:40:45] Voice 7: thinking that it might make it easier so

[1:40:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that clarification if it's not already there for

[1:40:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: trustees and anyone else who reads it uh there should be the distinction made that yes the trust

[1:40:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: council is will review and revise if they wish their trust council policies and they can make

[1:41:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: reference in their trust council policies so here are the areas responsibility for local trust

[1:41:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: committees and so this document is for local trust committees which just complies with trust

[1:41:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: council policies anyway so i guess yes the the report could make that much more clear

[1:41:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: as far as what's at the trust wide level and what's at the local level

[1:41:25] Voice 7: but yeah that's that's

[1:41:26] Voice 7: all i was thinking i didn't really i didn't see it that way but i also i already understood it

[1:41:31] Voice 7: from past conversations but i just was wondering if that was something for when it goes to trust

[1:41:37] Voice 7: council and that's all yeah

[1:41:42] Voice 9: absolutely uh trustee elliott thank

[1:41:47] Trustee Elliott: you um there is a lot to unpack here

[1:41:49] Trustee Elliott: uh so my first question is um so page 51 of our agenda page two of the briefing

[1:41:59] Trustee Elliott: that the report suggests using the office i'm guessing this is the office the ombudsperson's

[1:42:06] Trustee Elliott: report model complaints policy um and then when i looked that up um i didn't see that specific

[1:42:16] Trustee Elliott: the model complaints policy uh the the ombudsperson's office has a complaints guide

[1:42:25] Trustee Elliott: december 2020 and i just didn't see that referenced unless i missed it um how has that

[1:42:33] Trustee Elliott: been incorporated you know the guiding principles i can see uh that setup is reflected they've got

[1:42:41] Trustee Elliott: a section on bias so how you know have we referred to that complaints guide is it incorporated um

[1:42:50] Trustee Elliott: and i just didn't see it referenced specifically but maybe i'm missing something because there's

[1:42:55] Trustee Elliott: a lot here thanks so

[1:42:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there may be a question for anthony is that uh the the model complaints policy

[1:43:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is in reference to administrative fairness complaints policy uh

[1:43:12] Voice 18: yeah that's that's correct

[1:43:14] Voice 18: it's it references our old administrative fairness and complaints policy um the the report from the

[1:43:21] Voice 18: ombudsperson um indicated that we should think about changing it to a general complaints policy

[1:43:28] Voice 18: policy and follow their template that they provided a link to in the report. So

[1:43:36] Voice 18: essentially, that was my goal with updating this policy was to more reflect what they had

[1:43:45] Voice 18: provided in their best practices template and adhere to their specific comment to actually

[1:43:56] Voice 18: change the name of this to reflect more of a general complaints policy thank

[1:44:08] Trustee Elliott: you for that

[1:44:09] Trustee Elliott: and that leads me to another question so our administrative fairness policy is the only one

[1:44:16] Trustee Elliott: currently in which under which a constituent can complain about a process or the the behavior of

[1:44:26] Trustee Elliott: an elected official um and it and it's unsuitable so administrative fairness is about process

[1:44:36] Trustee Elliott: um are we looking to develop

[1:44:41] Trustee Elliott: not sure this this general complaints policy does it cover all the array of complaints that we would

[1:44:50] Trustee Elliott: would conceivably receive and um have a process for how we handle each one of those and i guess

[1:44:57] Trustee Elliott: that's the just the lens that i'm looking at this i'm talking as i'm thinking so it's not

[1:45:04] Trustee Elliott: very clear talking i apologize uh

[1:45:11] Voice 9: yeah staff do you have a response yeah

[1:45:15] Voice 18: i think i would

[1:45:17] Voice 18: envision this policy as as that going forward where um you know it would it would the the

[1:45:26] Voice 18: contents of it would you know change as time go change as time goes on to reflect you know

[1:45:34] Voice 18: changes that we see when it comes to complaints but uh um i think it's it's kind of along those

[1:45:40] Voice 18: lines based on my research looking at other municipalities that have uh more of a general

[1:45:47] Voice 18: complaints policy that's kind of what it is uh what you explained trustee elliott yeah director

[1:45:59] Voice 9: sermon yeah

[1:46:00] Voice 12: i just want to follow up on that i agree what i see here in the policy is two things

[1:46:05] Voice 12: it's in a it's it's meant to expand on the administrative fairness so that administrative

[1:46:10] Voice 12: fairness is not lost and the expansion is according to the best best practices by the

[1:46:16] Voice 12: ombudsperson's office to to get those extra complaints in there in a suitable way

[1:46:21] Voice 5: however

[1:46:23] Voice 12: However, I will note in terms of the policy amendments, this is your, you know, page, what am I looking at, page 63, there's still a little bit more work to do on this policy in relation to the other ones.

[1:46:35] Voice 12: I think this one has a little bit more polishing up to do, and this may be a little bit slower getting through the approval process than the others.

[1:46:42] Voice 12: I did ask for some feedback from Director of Legislative and Information Services, and he wasn't able to meet the deadline that we gave him, which, you know, if you saw how many policies he was reviewing,

[1:46:53] Voice 12: it's quite suitable. So this one, you know, may be recommended to trust council to continue forth

[1:46:59] Voice 12: with, but it may have some more. I think this one has the most room to amend, if that's what I'm

[1:47:05] Voice 12: getting at.

[1:47:07] Voice 9: Yeah, and I think I would agree that I think there's a lot of stuff to discuss here.

[1:47:12] Voice 9: I'm kind of seeking a way to structure our discussion here a little bit, feeling like it

[1:47:19] Voice 9: maybe worthwhile for us to go. I'm going to use the recommendations from page 50 as a way to sort

[1:47:27] Voice 9: of structure how we work through these documents, if that's helpful. I think it's good for us to

[1:47:35] Voice 9: kind of go through a little bit methodically and go through where we've made observations.

[1:47:41] Voice 9: So the first recommendation we have is that the RPC review and provide direction on the draft

[1:47:47] Voice 9: trust counsel by law compliance enforcement policy I think again assuming

[1:47:56] Voice 9: that everyone has had a chance to at least skim through this hopefully have a

[1:48:00] Voice 9: good read there's a lot of important stuff in this and this is a really

[1:48:04] Voice 9: direct way with which we interact with a lot of the public so making sure that

[1:48:08] Voice 9: we're doing this in a way that that feels equitable and is good and and and

[1:48:12] Voice 9: also effective for our staff to to enforce uh does anybody have any specific uh observations

[1:48:20] Voice 9: from this part that they want to sort of work through and is that too broad an invitation

[1:48:36] Trustee Elliott: just thinking it's a good place to start and i appreciate your um your structure

[1:48:42] Trustee Elliott: and moving through this so just maybe pause and give everyone a chance to think uh while

[1:48:50] Voice 9: While they're thinking, maybe Trustee Graham would like to enlighten us with his insights.

[1:48:56] Voice 11: Oh, I don't know about enlighten.

[1:48:58] Voice 11: My notes are just looking at the Trust Council Policy 5.5.1, Policy 3.1, which commencing investigation and still using the word may.

[1:49:14] Voice 11: And I know that word caused some consternation in the past.

[1:49:20] Voice 11: And so is that the correct word to be using in this policy?

[1:49:24] Voice 11: And if it's not, and if we do want to imply discretion, then maybe we should change it so that it is clear.

[1:49:32] Voice 11: That was my only concern with 5.5.1 based on the correspondence that I read and the confusion in that word.

[1:49:41] Voice 11: That's about it.

[1:49:42] Voice 11: yeah

[1:49:44] Voice 9: i similarly sort of uh noticed that that language being used and i know that um manager

[1:49:51] Voice 9: digman has and i and i i appreciate manager digman's uh quandary in you know being given a

[1:49:58] Voice 9: positive direction to to to do stuff but also you know with when the language when the language

[1:50:04] Voice 9: indicates an option i feel like that that that does invite discretion um but uh yeah trustee

[1:50:12] Voice 9: So,

[1:50:15] Trustee Elliott: yeah, the question of 3.2, maybe, does that get answered with the Section 8, use of discretion? How are those two pieces related? So that's on page 60 of our agenda, or actually, yeah, use of discretion.

[1:50:35] Trustee Elliott: So this is a new section that they may adopt discretionary enforcement policies. So if you could unpack it for me, how would that work? That we keep the word may at the Trust Council level and then at the LTC level, they can adopt discretionary enforcement policies that specifically gives direction to bylaw enforcement staff under which conditions, you know, what are the conditions of discretion?

[1:51:02] Trustee Elliott: Is that the relationship between these two sections?

[1:51:06] Trustee Elliott: Just so I'm clear.

[1:51:10] Voice 9: Yeah, I think that would be some very good clarity to get.

[1:51:12] Voice 9: I don't know, Director Sturmach,

[1:51:15] Voice 9: that seems like that's your ballywick.

[1:51:18] Voice 12: I'm actually going to turn it over to Manager Dingman.

[1:51:22] Voice 12: I have an answer, but I think he's more eloquent than I.

[1:51:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Okay, thank you.

[1:51:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Section 8 is really about the Local Trust Committee

[1:51:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: enforcement policies.

[1:51:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policies right it's not i don't link it to number three i mean it would help if there was more

[1:51:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: in number three um that would you know really define what discretion the manager has when

[1:51:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: comes to opening files one of the good additions that could be there is uh the manager would have

[1:52:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: discretion open files based on the resources that they have i

[1:52:06] Voice 7: don't know if i can see it

[1:52:07] Voice 7: um

[1:52:07] Voice 9: i guess that's

[1:52:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: trustee cameron

[1:52:10] Voice 9: aaron yeah trustee trustee campbell you've got your uh

[1:52:14] Voice 9: microphone on currently you

[1:52:17] Voice 7: guys you guys don't want to listen to me measure a piece of gutter

[1:52:23] Voice 9: thank you thank you aaron uh

[1:52:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: sorry so for my suggestion for number three is you could expand

[1:52:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that and say okay let's ensure that we're basing it on resources so if there is a situation like

[1:52:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: a small island again and where there can be a large number of complaints submitted it happened

[1:52:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: on sydney island a number of years ago where there's a couple of dozen from a small group

[1:52:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: of persons if you give the manager the discretion to say okay if i have limited resources then i

[1:53:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I may be able to open a file and I would just for all of these policies the more discretion you give

[1:53:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to bylaw officers and to the manager to manage these files the fewer files you will have open

[1:53:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that especially for the bylaw officers they they need more discretion to deal with minor issues

[1:53:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and then we could close that many more files and then as the manager yes if I can say okay I've

[1:53:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I've only got limited resources here.

[1:53:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I can use that criteria to say, okay, I can't open up 50 files this month.

[1:53:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I can do this.

[1:53:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: This is realistic.

[1:53:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Or I could say, you know what?

[1:53:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I have 600 files and that's all we can manage right now.

[1:53:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: If I get a group of files coming in and complaints, I'm going to have to say, no, I can't open

[1:53:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: them up right now unless they're really serious because I have to get my number below X, whatever

[1:53:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it is, below 600.

[1:53:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: whatever we want to establish as this is the volume of work that we can handle and if it's

[1:54:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: more than that for any specific local trust area then okay yes we need a pause but that discretion

[1:54:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: needs to be written into the policies so that it's clear that we don't go in the other direction

[1:54:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: where people are going to complain hey this guy isn't opening up files well why well okay i don't

[1:54:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: have the workforce to work on 700 files so that's why i'm not opening them at this time and so i'm

[1:54:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: gonna i always point back here's the policy i hope all trustees have noticed that we're putting those

[1:54:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policies when we open up the files and we're notifying local trust meetings here's the policy

[1:54:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: as to we're using to open this file so that there's more awareness and that we are using

[1:54:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: these policies to do the work that we're doing yeah

[1:54:55] Voice 9: and i think that's i think that's really

[1:54:57] Voice 9: the key part of this this whole discussion is uh you know we there is a bit of a spectrum here that

[1:55:05] Voice 9: we can run where either trustees are super super and ltcs are super super specific and then we give

[1:55:11] Voice 9: no describe like we can be very specific about all the things that we want to have enforced on

[1:55:15] Voice 9: and give no discretion to staff or if we increase the the tools with which staff have to to

[1:55:22] Voice 9: to prioritize complaints as they come up.

[1:55:27] Voice 9: I think that as Mr. Dingman is saying,

[1:55:31] Voice 9: will hopefully lead to fewer files

[1:55:34] Voice 9: that are more prioritized.

[1:55:37] Voice 9: But I think that prioritization key

[1:55:39] Voice 9: is a key part of deciding,

[1:55:41] Voice 9: making sure that that component is there.

[1:55:44] Voice 9: But I'm very much for supporting staff

[1:55:47] Voice 9: and having the tools they need to get the job done

[1:55:49] Voice 9: effectively and reduce their workload

[1:55:52] Voice 9: to where they can do it well director sermon thank

[1:55:58] Voice 12: you thank you mr chair i also wanted to

[1:56:00] Voice 12: echo the in the term of resources sometimes i feel like that's all my life is doing is helping guide

[1:56:05] Voice 12: resources and enforcement on small islands whether they be mud secret owl or other lord knows we have

[1:56:15] Voice 12: 450 islands in the islands trust area but we only have 13 big ones so to speak so

[1:56:19] Voice 12: So it's ineffective use of resources, to be quite frank, and to be going over and over

[1:56:25] Voice 12: and again, the cost of just taking a boat over to these small islands is, I don't want

[1:56:29] Voice 12: to say exorbitant, that's a bit exaggerating, but it's expensive.

[1:56:33] Voice 12: And, you know, I would welcome that, a little more flexibility, because as a manager or

[1:56:40] Voice 12: a director, I can direct what staff do and how they do it to some degree.

[1:56:46] Voice 12: but where we have policy that says you know we should be opening up investigations for the

[1:56:51] Voice 12: following reasons if it doesn't see resources then it as manager dingman has indicated we're

[1:56:57] Voice 12: sort of bound to head in that direction if we have more flexibility to say it doesn't make any sense

[1:57:02] Voice 12: for us to spend you know multiple tons of resources going to a smaller island that's um

[1:57:08] Voice 12: you know that you know not a priority so to speak in terms of allocating resources it would be a

[1:57:13] Voice 12: a welcome addition to a policy in my opinion that's it chair yeah

[1:57:22] Voice 9: trustee graham yeah excellent

[1:57:27] Voice 11: so the question is uh who who uh recommends those policy changes to the regional planning committee

[1:57:35] Voice 11: and then to trust council and i i would say that if the manager's got a handle on on what

[1:57:41] Voice 11: they can produce with their resources and they have a real deep sense as to uh how to priorize

[1:57:49] Voice 11: their investigations you know obviously natural protection is numero uno and and a fence that's

[1:57:54] Voice 11: an inch too tall is numero you know that's not the other end of the spectrum i would welcome

[1:57:58] Voice 11: uh some a a um you know a suggestion as to a policy inclusion uh that we could look at for

[1:58:05] Voice 11: sure um

[1:58:11] Voice 9: yeah sorry go ahead

[1:58:12] Voice 12: director so i i welcome that to the rpc members to make such

[1:58:17] Voice 12: a resolution we can capture that intent or we can staff could concoct something over lunch if you

[1:58:22] Voice 12: prefer or perhaps uh manager dingman has something however the chair wishes to proceed be happy to

[1:58:28] Voice 12: add recommendations saying that the regional planning committee recommends amending

[1:58:33] Voice 12: recommends their trust amending the policy as per the resolution i have in the report this

[1:58:37] Voice 12: is why i write things ahead of time

[1:58:39] Voice 5: and

[1:58:39] Voice 12: and and make that amendment appropriate so you have the

[1:58:44] Voice 12: draft resolution for you we can just chalk it up in there and we can work on the wording when you

[1:58:49] Voice 12: you get to the drafting stage but for now we've i've certainly captured in the notes when you

[1:58:55] Voice 12: come ready to pass those resolutions that limit enforcement due to resources and perhaps other

[1:59:00] Voice 12: things i'm not quite catching the right wording yeah

[1:59:03] Voice 9: yeah no i i think uh i think that's a good

[1:59:06] Voice 9: thing for us to to sort of capture and perhaps as we get down to resolutions yeah if you can

[1:59:12] Voice 9: keep that note on your on your radar um do we have any other sorry um do we have any other components

[1:59:21] Voice 9: to this that we want to sort of drill down into my my understanding broadly is that this document

[1:59:26] Voice 9: is is a broader spectrum and then we would drill down as individual ltcs this is something that

[1:59:32] Voice 9: if adopted by by trust council it serves as a broad template and then each ltc will sort of

[1:59:39] Voice 9: uh tailor it to their needs um but trustee elliott so

[1:59:46] Trustee Elliott: there's two sticking points but

[1:59:49] Trustee Elliott: it's more about process that i still um i want us to think through but maybe we could do this

[1:59:55] Trustee Elliott: over lunch and it's so the guidance on discretion

[2:00:00] Trustee Elliott: should be, should somehow involve the LTC because we have very different particular situations on

[2:00:10] Trustee Elliott: the islands. I would be uncomfortable if there was just a guidance on the discretionary policy

[2:00:17] Trustee Elliott: that was just worked out between the director of planning and the manager of bylaw enforcement

[2:00:21] Trustee Elliott: enforcement without the input from the ltc and so recognizing that this wonderful um you know draft

[2:00:30] Trustee Elliott: enforcement policy for each ltc how are those two going to be married together with a larger trust

[2:00:38] Trustee Elliott: council policy and and they have to they have to be congruent and because i do like isn't giving

[2:00:49] Trustee Elliott: giving discretion or guidance on discretion,

[2:00:51] Trustee Elliott: one of the most important things that an LTC can do.

[2:00:55] Trustee Elliott: So how could that be worked in?

[2:00:57] Trustee Elliott: That's my first question.

[2:01:03] Trustee Elliott: The issue of the circumstances that it may be reasonable

[2:01:07] Trustee Elliott: to commence bylaw enforcement investigation

[2:01:09] Trustee Elliott: and or conduct a site inspection without providing notice.

[2:01:14] Trustee Elliott: I believe from the ombudsperson's report,

[2:01:16] Trustee Elliott: there is the note that our policy needs to clearly state which type of circumstances

[2:01:24] Trustee Elliott: this would occur. So a site inspection without providing notice is a really problematic thing.

[2:01:34] Trustee Elliott: This was highlighted over and over again by much residents, not only feeling violated that

[2:01:41] Trustee Elliott: somebody's been walking around the island writing up six or seven complaints on different

[2:01:46] Trustee Elliott: properties and but the site inspection without notice um i don't think that this policy this

[2:01:52] Trustee Elliott: draft policy articulates the circumstances in which that would be appropriate so we need to

[2:02:00] Trustee Elliott: look at that yeah

[2:02:04] Voice 9: i agree that's a that's a major concern of mine as well again and maybe i can just

[2:02:12] Voice 9: get some some clarity this this dra this draft policy is not intended to preclude the the rights

[2:02:21] Voice 9: of ltcs to to sort of determine that pride that priority and that's my understanding

[2:02:28] Voice 9: um but to provide a broader uh framework uh and then the ltcs would refine it further but perhaps

[2:02:37] Voice 9: Perhaps Warren Bingman can tell us more.

[2:02:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So, Chair, it is at the discretion of the local trust committee

[2:02:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to establish those policies about notices of inspection.

[2:02:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: The Community Charter, Local Government Act already,

[2:02:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: they permit bylaw enforcement officers to do inspections without notice.

[2:03:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Now, there are certain local trust committees who, in their bylaws,

[2:03:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: have stated, okay, no, you will give advance notice

[2:03:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or you will give it, like Laskiti has a very detailed one,

[2:03:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you will give advance notice under these specific circumstances.

[2:03:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And then again with each, and there are some local trust committees

[2:03:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that have passed resolutions, just standing resolutions,

[2:03:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that you will give notice, there's our policy on giving notice.

[2:03:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Within the local trust committee compliance and violent enforcement policies,

[2:03:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: each, as we've done on Denman, can give very specific direction

[2:03:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: as to when notice will be given and how and also detail under what circumstances notice needs to

[2:03:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: be given and then here's the circumstances under very serious uh circumstances when notice may not

[2:03:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: be able to be given so all of that would be done at the local trust committee level i actually don't

[2:04:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: really know that trust council can direct the local trust committee on how you're to handle

[2:04:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: notice of inspections because trust council actually can't enforce the local bylaws it's the

[2:04:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the ltcs who do that yeah and one of the reasons of here's the template we can use for the

[2:04:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: compliance and enforcement policies for each for the ltcs is so that we can try to standardize most

[2:04:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: of it and put in there okay notice will be given i mean i guess it's also possible within section

[2:04:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Section 8 here, you can state that outright, that Lowell Trust Committee should adopt policies on when to give notice to comply with the Ombudsperson recommendations, which is one of their main recommendations and has been so for years.

[2:04:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Please give notice.

[2:04:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I mean, that's one of the reasons why for 10 years we've sent the notice to responded letter out.

[2:05:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We have an open file for your property.

[2:05:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: That was a huge step forward in ensuring the property owners know that site inspections may be occurring and that we need to talk to them.

[2:05:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So that could be another section within Section 8 here to make it explicit that LTC should adopt those notice of inspection policies.

[2:05:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Yeah,

[2:05:24] Voice 9: and that's exactly my understanding of this document, too, is that this, and hopefully Trustee Elliott, this kind of addresses that concern, which I completely share.

[2:05:36] Voice 9: But I think Mr. Dingman's quite correct in that Trust Council can't specify how that gets carried out, but LTCs should be encouraged to drill down into how they want to, how they want bylaw enforcement to proceed on their island.

[2:05:53] Voice 9: because this is one of those places where there are differences of opinion

[2:05:57] Voice 9: and differences of appropriateness in how things get done.

[2:06:03] Voice 9: So,

[2:06:04] Trustee Elliott: Tara, can we suggest that, can staff work on, you know,

[2:06:08] Trustee Elliott: Manager Dingman, you articulated something that probably should be articulated

[2:06:13] Trustee Elliott: in Section 8 there of Trust Council policy,

[2:06:16] Trustee Elliott: that that should refer to Section 5, which is about inspection.

[2:06:24] Trustee Elliott: of the local trust committee bylaw enforcement compliance and enforcement policy so so how the

[2:06:30] Trustee Elliott: two are related should be articulated somehow whether in the report but going down to section

[2:06:39] Trustee Elliott: five which is on page 71 that is going to be tailored to the specific needs of the local

[2:06:48] Trustee Elliott: trust committee and and so thank you for pointing that out that's where that belongs but i think the

[2:06:53] Trustee Elliott: relationship should be better established between the trust council policy and the local trust

[2:06:58] Trustee Elliott: committee policy somehow yeah

[2:07:04] Voice 9: i'm doing what uh what specific direction the staff need to sort of

[2:07:11] Voice 9: make a link there somebody

[2:07:14] Trustee Elliott: write it up over lunch

[2:07:19] Trustee Elliott: usually i'm the one that's like amending things over lunch so i'm gonna

[2:07:23] Trustee Elliott: it yeah

[2:07:24] Voice 9: well that being said

[2:07:25] Trustee Elliott: do we do we

[2:07:26] Voice 9: want to take do we want to take a lunch break now because

[2:07:30] Voice 9: i feel like this discussion is going to go on and we've got a lot to talk about here uh i'm gonna

[2:07:36] Voice 9: unless anybody is violently opposed to to taking a break i'm going to suggest that we do that

[2:07:40] Voice 9: and and come back after the break and get into the get into the mud how long uh let's do we want

[2:07:53] Voice 9: half an hour at

[2:07:55] Trustee Elliott: minimum yes yeah

[2:07:57] Voice 9: i think i think half an hour is great um so welcome

[2:08:00] Trustee Elliott: back at 12 45

[2:08:01] Trustee Elliott: chair 12

[2:08:03] Voice 9: 45 sounds fantastic i was just about to say a generous so coming back at 12 45 that

[2:08:11] Voice 9: would be wonderful thank you very much rob and yeah um we'll we'll be back in a little bit

[2:38:38] Voice 6: Welcome. We're still in our break, but just saying hello.

[2:42:40] Voice 6: Welcome

[2:42:49] Voice 9: back, Trustee Boland.

[2:42:57] Voice 20: Hi. Actually, I realized I need to mute myself.

[2:43:01] Voice 20: I thought I was muted and needed to unmute.

[2:43:04] Voice 20: So what stage are you at, Sam?

[2:43:07] Voice 20: What page are you on on the agenda?

[2:43:09] Voice 9: We are. We're in 7.2, so the bylaw enforcement policy review.

[2:43:18] Voice 9: Okay, great.

[2:43:19] Voice 9: And we're sort of just, I decided to sort of try and structure the discussion following the

[2:43:25] Voice 9: recommendations. So that first recommendation is the regional planning committee review and

[2:43:30] Voice 9: provide direction on draft trust council bylaw compliance and enforcement policy.

[2:43:36] Voice 9: So we're sort of just going through that if people have got observations and things like that.

[2:43:40] Voice 9: And then we're going to sort of, my plan has been to move through things in that order.

[2:43:49] Voice 9: Steve Patrick has joined us which is great as well yeah one

[2:43:53] Voice 20: big issue and I think it was in that

[2:43:57] Voice 20: which is uh the section on um site visits and notification of site visits

[2:44:07] Voice 9: we've talked a little

[2:44:08] Voice 9: bit about that let's let's make sure that that that discussion is captured in the meeting but

[2:44:13] Voice 9: but I definitely welcome your input on that.

[2:44:15] Voice 20: Well, if it's been discussed, that's fine.

[2:44:18] Voice 20: I think it needs to be completely rethought and rewritten.

[2:44:21] Voice 20: And the default should be that, you know,

[2:44:24] Voice 20: you require a week to two weeks notification.

[2:44:27] Voice 20: And if an LTC wants to go back from that, that's fine.

[2:44:31] Voice 20: But in the overarching policy, it should be,

[2:44:35] Voice 20: I think we on Ceterna actually looked up

[2:44:37] Voice 20: what the default was with the RCMP and others.

[2:44:41] Voice 20: and we asked that it be set to that.

[2:44:45] Voice 20: And I think it was a week, but I'd have to get that confirmed.

[2:44:51] Voice 9: I'd certainly welcome that input.

[2:44:54] Voice 9: Let's make sure that we've got everybody back in the meeting

[2:44:56] Voice 9: before we're steaming ahead too far.

[2:44:59] Voice 9: But yeah.

[2:45:00] Voice 20: No worries, that's fine.

[2:45:02] Voice 20: Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss the opportunity or that it was set.

[2:45:05] Voice 20: Okay, I'll go on mute now.

[2:45:07] Voice 20: All

[2:45:11] Voice 9: right, so it is 12.46.

[2:45:15] Voice 9: And yeah, let's I think it looks to me like everyone is back.

[2:45:23] Voice 9: So I don't know if Trustee Campbell, are you back? Perhaps not yet.

[2:45:40] Voice 9: Yes. Sorry. OK. OK, great. Excellent. Wonderful. Just just checking.

[2:45:47] Voice 9: Yeah. So I think we can sort of dive back into the discussion somewhat.

[2:45:54] Voice 9: what um and again yeah i'm there's a lot to get through here and there's a lot of stuff that i

[2:45:59] Voice 9: think is going to be worth discussing sort of you know going over at length and again

[2:46:04] Voice 9: you know our role as a committee is to is to refer this to back to trust council eventually

[2:46:09] Voice 9: so there will be room for for more discussion uh and again i think it's really important that we

[2:46:15] Voice 9: make sure that um we remember that the ltcs are the ones who really are where the rubber hits the

[2:46:21] Voice 9: the road for bylaw enforcement, and it's going to be very important for LTCs to make their decisions

[2:46:27] Voice 9: about how they want bylaw enforcement to happen on their islands. That being said, it is part of

[2:46:33] Voice 9: our role to sort of provide some overarching guidance and try and strive for a degree of

[2:46:40] Voice 9: not uniformity, but unity between how we're approaching this and raise a minimum standard

[2:46:49] Voice 9: standard for how we want bylaw enforcement to happen and i think this is a good step and i you

[2:46:54] Voice 9: know i think the the uh the red line documents show quite how much um you know work has gone

[2:47:00] Voice 9: into sort of addressing these things um i do want to uh offer uh trustee patrick the opportunity to

[2:47:08] Voice 9: take up the reins if she wants to um i hope her travels are going well um and yeah shall we

[2:47:24] Voice 9: Shall we wade back in?

[2:47:26] Voice 9: All right.

[2:47:31] Voice 9: So, Trustee Boland, you had some input that you wanted to contribute in terms of that broader discussion.

[2:47:38] Voice 9: Some of you may have caught the tail end of it, but I would like to give you that opportunity to speak if you'd like to.

[2:47:45] Voice 9: And we're sort of structuring the discussion around the recommendations.

[2:47:50] Voice 9: Yes, please.

[2:47:51] Voice 9: So, in the RFD.

[2:47:53] Voice 9: So, we're starting with this, the 5.1 document.

[2:47:59] Voice 9: Yeah, the

[2:48:01] Voice 20: first paragraph on inspection, and I hope I'm in the right place because I'm on the phone and obviously I've been disconnected for a bit.

[2:48:12] Voice 20: So apologies if I've jumped around. But the inspection, I feel really strongly that that paragraph is very key to making sure that we we set the right tone.

[2:48:25] Voice 20: own it's along the lines of when do we investigate so when do we inspect and how is that inspection

[2:48:32] Voice 20: arranged so on saturn we realized that the inspection period in some layered bylaw module

[2:48:44] Voice 20: was set to 24 hours and we've made a very specific request that it should be set to

[2:48:50] Voice 20: i think it's a week it could be uh two weeks the notification period so i'd really appreciate it

[2:48:57] Voice 20: if we could look into that and that entire paragraph around inspection notices could be

[2:49:03] Voice 20: gone through with a fine-tooth comb and i think that um the default should be you know two weeks

[2:49:11] Voice 20: and that if any ltc wants to reduce that that's fine rather than the other way around which is

[2:49:18] Voice 20: It's set to no notification or 24 hours and an LTC has to explicitly make it longer.

[2:49:26] Voice 20: Thanks. That's all I have to say.

[2:49:30] Voice 9: Yeah, no, I appreciate that perspective.

[2:49:35] Voice 9: I think it's we've got to remember that this document is still going to be like the Trust Council doesn't have the right to set enforcement policy specifically for LTCs.

[2:49:46] Voice 9: We make those decisions at the LTC level.

[2:49:49] Voice 9: Um, but I, I'm absolutely down. I think we can, this is our document. We can set those,

[2:49:55] Voice 9: those time periods as we want to. I know on Denman, we had no, uh, no specific timeframe at all,

[2:50:02] Voice 9: um, until, until relatively recently. Um, so yeah, establishing a good baseline is probably

[2:50:09] Voice 9: good, but remembering that it's, it's going to fundamentally, uh, come down to the LTC's

[2:50:15] Voice 9: decisions. Trustee Patrick.

[2:50:17] Trustee Patrick: Well, hello, and I apologize for being hardy this evening.

[2:50:23] Trustee Patrick: One of my biggest comments is that the ombudsman report made it very clear that this document does

[2:50:28] Trustee Patrick: two things. One, provides direction to staff, and two, is a public-facing document that those facing

[2:50:36] Trustee Patrick: compliance issues can look to. And it actually says in the ombudsman report that it should be

[2:50:42] Trustee Patrick: written in language that's clear and understanding to the public who are the recipients of these

[2:50:50] Trustee Patrick: actions. And I think all of us, well, I can't speak for all of us, but many of us have probably

[2:50:57] Trustee Patrick: not been on the receiving end of complaints. And I think we're missing that voice and that

[2:51:03] Trustee Patrick: there's work to do to go out and talk to some of the people who have had experience and ask,

[2:51:10] Trustee Patrick: I ask, does this answer the questions?

[2:51:12] Trustee Patrick: Does this provide the information that someone on the receiving end of a notice can look to and get that understanding of our process?

[2:51:23] Trustee Patrick: So I ask, how do we do that?

[2:51:27] Voice 9: Yeah, I think that's a really important voice.

[2:51:32] Voice 9: In terms of how we develop this document, what are our options in terms of how to get that piece?

[2:51:45] Voice 9: I mean, it's public consultation can be can be engaged in a bunch of different ways.

[2:51:51] Voice 9: So

[2:51:51] Trustee Elliott: how I would do that or suggest we think about this is that we foreground this draft policy with a note that this should be tailored to the specific needs of the communities and consultation with community groups as to the appropriate method of.

[2:52:17] Trustee Elliott: inspection should be considered when developing this policy. So we're making recommendations to

[2:52:23] Trustee Elliott: Trust Council. We want to recommend that each LTC has a draft enforcement policy that includes this

[2:52:31] Trustee Elliott: inspection section. How do we recommend that they determine what is appropriate way of undertaking

[2:52:38] Trustee Elliott: inspection? They should include stakeholders, which include community members. So is that

[2:52:45] Trustee Elliott: what you're thinking trustee patrick

[2:52:48] Trustee Patrick: no i think that's an added layer um i'm my understanding from

[2:52:54] Trustee Patrick: the ombudsman report is that this is our overall policy this is the policy that directs the

[2:52:58] Trustee Patrick: decision makers and those decision makers are the bylaw enforcement officers in the work that they

[2:53:04] Trustee Patrick: do not the decision makers of of our seats that we play um and i think that you know this overall

[2:53:13] Trustee Patrick: overall policy is where people are going to look to, to understand, you know, what's the process,

[2:53:18] Trustee Patrick: where am I in the, you know, what's expected in a letter that you get sent for the very first time

[2:53:25] Trustee Patrick: and, and all of that information, what's facing me, how do I know I meet those thresholds that

[2:53:30] Trustee Patrick: are in the ombudsman report, um, in a, in a administratively fair way and clear. Um, because

[2:53:38] Trustee Patrick: I think that's, I think we've all been on the recipient end of phone calls from somebody who's

[2:53:43] Trustee Patrick: confused. They're, they're just, they, they're, they're caught off guard. They don't know what's

[2:53:48] Trustee Patrick: going on. And the, you know, is, is the process as clear as it could be for those people so that,

[2:53:54] Trustee Patrick: you know, we're never going to satisfy a hundred percent of, of, of people out there. But I think

[2:54:00] Trustee Patrick: in general that the, the tone and language needs to be directed to those who are on the receiving

[2:54:07] Trustee Patrick: end of you are not compliant um and and that's my concern does this meet that test the the

[2:54:16] Trustee Patrick: information you're talking about trustee elliot is sort of the added layer from the local trust

[2:54:21] Trustee Patrick: committees that add more that sort of discretionary note of where are we putting our emphasis and

[2:54:27] Trustee Patrick: and and so forth but even at that discretionary point that doesn't deal with every every complaint

[2:54:36] Trustee Patrick: complaint that comes in how do we provide that there's general discretion you know how to make

[2:54:42] Trustee Patrick: decisions that that that staff need to have that kind of general discretion and i see that policy

[2:54:48] Trustee Patrick: document that's been sent to our local trust committees to be kind of more of the specific

[2:54:54] Trustee Patrick: direction of setting priorities on on what is being done it's very complex and i can see how

[2:55:01] Trustee Patrick: the public gets confused yeah

[2:55:06] Voice 9: director simon thank

[2:55:10] Voice 12: you mr chair and i guess madam chair the

[2:55:13] Voice 12: i just want to remind the rpc that the next step after you consider that the policies and whatever

[2:55:19] Voice 12: revisions you recommend to trust council to make is to refer to the ombudsperson's office and

[2:55:23] Voice 12: they're standing by so to speak they're where where you are in that stage and if you have

[2:55:28] Voice 12: perhaps specific requests uh trustee patrick in terms of meeting that standard you're talking

[2:55:34] Voice 12: talking about perhaps it's a question to ask them to help answer um in in terms of the review maybe

[2:55:39] Voice 12: there's a specific question they can help answer in their review uh

[2:55:47] Voice 9: yeah trustee Patrick I don't

[2:55:48] Voice 9: know if you've got any particular specific rebuttal to that or or response to that I

[2:55:52] Voice 9: think the my understanding of your your point is is making sure that this document is uh public

[2:56:01] Voice 9: friendly and and is easy to easy to parse for for our communities which I think is really important

[2:56:07] Voice 9: I think it's a big opportunity for some clear, transparent legislation to be, you know, clear for us, provides clear direction to staff, easy to understand for the public is a really great opportunity for us to make this accessible to everyone.

[2:56:25] Voice 9: everyone. I don't know if there are specific components. I mean, I think, by and large,

[2:56:34] Voice 9: a lot of this document, there's a lot of good stuff in here. But I think, yeah, drilling

[2:56:38] Voice 9: down into specifics of things we have issues with is going to be an important piece of

[2:56:44] Voice 9: how we move this forward. But are there any other specific components that we want to

[2:56:54] Voice 9: sort of address, Trustee Boland?

[2:56:56] Voice 9: um

[2:56:59] Voice 3: i'm not sure if we're going to move on to the best practices or is it i think it's the

[2:57:06] Voice 3: best practices isn't it is that going to be a separate conversation yeah

[2:57:11] Voice 9: so my my vague

[2:57:13] Voice 9: understanding of oh because again i think this is there's a lot of material here my my vague

[2:57:19] Voice 9: framing structure has been to go by recommendation um so we've yeah we've talked about this this this

[2:57:27] Voice 9: first document, I think we should. The next one in that list

[2:57:31] Voice 9: is the Administrative Fairness Complaints Policy.

[2:57:36] Voice 9: But yeah, we'd move on through there.

[2:57:38] Voice 3: Okay, I just had

[2:57:39] Voice 3: one general comment, and I think it probably applies over the three

[2:57:43] Voice 3: documents, but I'd have to go through it with a

[2:57:47] Voice 3: fine-tooth comb myself, is that where possible,

[2:57:51] Voice 3: text is not repeated, because I think then

[2:57:55] Voice 3: And, you know, there is some repetition where, you know, a process is described and the same thing is described in another document.

[2:58:04] Voice 3: And I think that that should be eliminated.

[2:58:06] Voice 3: Otherwise, you end up in a horrible mishmash of trying to update here, there and everywhere.

[2:58:11] Voice 3: So just a general comment.

[2:58:13] Voice 3: Thank you.

[2:58:14] Voice 9: Yeah.

[2:58:15] Voice 9: Thank you for that, Trustee Boland.

[2:58:17] Voice 9: Trustee Luckham.

[2:58:19] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Chair.

[2:58:20] Trustee Luckham: Just a couple of remarks as we're moving along.

[2:58:24] Trustee Luckham: is certainly it's a hundred percent important that we consult with those that have experienced

[2:58:31] Trustee Luckham: bylaw enforcement as the recipient of but i think that the other part of the equation of course is

[2:58:37] Trustee Luckham: those that uh file the complaints and um you know we all of course when we get some complaint from

[2:58:45] Trustee Luckham: somebody directly advise them to talk to the neighbor if they can or talk to an adjacent

[2:58:50] Trustee Luckham: neighbor in order to avoid the process. But I would say that the complainant also needs to know

[2:59:00] Trustee Luckham: some more specifics, and that should be spelled out in the policy or direction provided.

[2:59:05] Trustee Luckham: But the other element here about notice of inspection, you know, certainly in situations

[2:59:12] Trustee Luckham: where it's appropriate, more time should be always provided. And the statement does say

[2:59:19] Trustee Luckham: where necessary or something like that if I get exactly the language but the thing is is that

[2:59:24] Trustee Luckham: in 24 hours even a lot of trees can be dropped or a lot of environmental damage can be undertaken

[2:59:32] Trustee Luckham: in a very short period of time and so where it's appropriate there need particularly health

[2:59:39] Trustee Luckham: and environment there does need to be a more proactive approach to doing a site inspection

[2:59:44] Trustee Luckham: Certainly, that doesn't necessarily require trespassing on the person's property or gaining access to the property.

[2:59:51] Trustee Luckham: But in some situations where it's a large lot, it may be necessary.

[2:59:54] Trustee Luckham: So just want to make sure that we balance the requirement to act quickly.

[3:00:00] Trustee Luckham: in difficult situations and act in a more relaxed fashion

[3:00:06] Trustee Luckham: where the complaint is not

[3:00:08] Trustee Luckham: of an environmental or health nature.

[3:00:11] Voice 9: Yeah, and thank you for that, Professor Luckman.

[3:00:14] Voice 9: I agree, I think it's important,

[3:00:16] Voice 9: and again, this kind of goes back to,

[3:00:18] Voice 9: we want to make sure that bylaw enforcement

[3:00:20] Voice 9: have the teeth to deal with things

[3:00:22] Voice 9: that are of real and pressing concern.

[3:00:25] Voice 9: As you say, a lot of damage can be done

[3:00:27] Voice 9: in a very short period of time.

[3:00:29] Voice 6: So

[3:00:30] Voice 9: I understand wanting to give as long a window for people to sort of arrange those things and making sure that we're not showing up unannounced entirely.

[3:00:41] Voice 9: But, you know, I think, again, part of this is going to be about empowering bylaw enforcement to have discretion and giving them the clear guidelines about when that discretion is applied is going to be a really key component of making sure that this is administratively fair.

[3:00:57] Voice 9: um but uh yeah trustee patrick well

[3:01:01] Trustee Patrick: discretion and notice are two different things and i think

[3:01:04] Trustee Patrick: the ombudsman report was very clear it said that generally you should tell give people advanced

[3:01:08] Trustee Patrick: notice that you're going to inspect and why and be very clear in the letter and then the ombudsman

[3:01:12] Trustee Patrick: report is very clear on that and i and i can't say this language is that clear and but it said yes

[3:01:17] Trustee Patrick: there are circumstances that you would not give advanced notice and you need to be clear about

[3:01:23] Trustee Patrick: those too. So again, this one sentence here is not clear. And I think that's where our plain

[3:01:29] Trustee Patrick: English needs to be crystal clear that generally there will be advanced notice, but there are

[3:01:35] Trustee Patrick: circumstances and these are what those circumstances are. My question more is also on the

[3:01:41] Trustee Patrick: ombudsman report. It suggested, and I guess this is more directed to staff, that a review of the

[3:01:47] Trustee Patrick: current approach be undertaken to ensure that the current approach to bylaw enforcement is

[3:01:52] Trustee Patrick: reasonable and consistent with legal and fairness principles and has staff conducted a review as

[3:02:00] Trustee Patrick: recommended by the ombudsman report and if so is that available to us could

[3:02:09] Voice 12: you review i i was

[3:02:13] Voice 12: madly typing awareness i heard uh has a certain legal and blank happened sorry that's oh sorry

[3:02:20] Trustee Patrick: Sorry, it was in the ombudsman report. It said it suggested that a review of the current approach be undertaken to ensure that our current approach is reasonable and consistent with legal and fairness principles.

[3:02:38] Voice 12: Okay. I don't think we've had a specific review of that, but certainly the entire product that you have before you has been reviewed as per the ombudsperson's report.

[3:02:47] Voice 12: So maybe I'll turn to Anthony and Warren to answer that in more detail, assuming they're back much.

[3:02:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I'm back for lunch.

[3:02:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: There you go.

[3:03:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So in reviewing our policies and what the ombudsperson has recommended,

[3:03:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I have gone through every available online document regarding bylaw enforcement

[3:03:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and compliance for every municipality that's published it.

[3:03:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So I've actually reviewed more than two dozen policies to see how those policies

[3:03:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: compared with what we have and narrowed it down to okay we can use these certain policies really

[3:03:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: as a template but auntie and auntie and i both took part in that process to ensure okay are we

[3:03:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: using language that's consistent with other jurisdictions are we covering all of the issues

[3:03:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that are covered by other jurisdictions and i think by going through that process

[3:03:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: process and looking at the the policies developed by other municipalities and regional districts

[3:04:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we got to a place where we looked okay these are the trust council policies that should be adopted

[3:04:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that the ombudsperson recommends and that would also bring on this trust in line with the other

[3:04:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: jurisdictions and then here's the local trust committee document that would help bring the

[3:04:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policies forward that you know are consistent with again other jurisdictions the language used

[3:04:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the type of discretion that can be exercised and the template that you have here

[3:04:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: this is just a template the policies adopted for inspection for denman for example are much more

[3:04:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: detailed and each local trust committee can adopt those detailed than they should to suit their

[3:04:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: local needs and just provide that much more extensive review on the local level and to put

[3:04:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: in the local document so and then i believe we've done the review of all the policies on both levels

[3:05:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to ensure that yes they follow what the obvious person is recommending and that they are in fact

[3:05:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: reasonable yeah

[3:05:18] Voice 9: i think i think trustee patrick was getting into slightly nuanced version of that

[3:05:22] Voice 9: Well,

[3:05:23] Trustee Patrick: I understand the Ombudsman report. They said it was about our approach, not our policies. Our approach to bylaw enforcement needed to be reviewed. And so that was my question. And I guess that leads to the Ombudsman report has lots of suggestions in there. They use the word suggestions instead of recommendations. And there isn't a one for one analysis of the report or has that been done?

[3:05:49] Trustee Patrick: I know you had the general report that was done in the September Trust Council meeting that sort of clumped everything, but was there a one-to-one review of the ombudsman report?

[3:06:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I would say yes, we've done that and done that in depth.

[3:06:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I

[3:06:10] Voice 9: think I think what Trustee Patrick may be asking is, is is the is there a suggestion by suggestion review of our of our approach, not just policy that that's accessible to trustees?

[3:06:29] Voice 9: so do we have that that we i believe you that you've done it i think the question is is do we

[3:06:36] Voice 9: have a copy of that um for review and i'd correct me if i'm i'm getting that wrong trustee patrick

[3:06:43] Voice 9: but so

[3:06:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: chair there's there's no separate document i mean i think it would be helpful to define what

[3:06:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: approach means as to what we're evaluating then evaluating as far as approach i mean we

[3:06:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We can go through, I mean, we could bring multiple policies here from other jurisdictions

[3:07:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and you could go through the document and the approach that they are taking would become

[3:07:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: clear if you go through the document, how they want to handle right from the complaint

[3:07:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: right to the closing of the file, right?

[3:07:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Some of them are very detailed.

[3:07:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and certainly i would suggest that a more detailed document it's not at the trust council level

[3:07:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it's at the local trust committee level where they can take the hard look at approach but right now

[3:07:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there's no document we didn't say okay we're going over these 20 items to try and identify

[3:07:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the different approaches uh so we didn't create that document that's not what anthony and i did

[3:07:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We focused on here's the policies and here's the reports and briefings to Trust Council.

[3:07:56] Voice 9: Yeah, I know. And I appreciate it. I think that we are possibly slightly at cross purposes here.

[3:08:02] Voice 9: I think I think we're and I, you know, I think we're talking about slightly different things in terms of I mean, and certainly for me,

[3:08:13] Voice 9: I think it's really important to have a perspective of what other jurisdictions do in terms of how we lay out the language.

[3:08:20] Voice 9: And, you know, it's good to be consistent with other jurisdictions in terms of how the language is presented of policy.

[3:08:28] Voice 9: I also think that our primary objective should be to make sure that the language is clear and accessible to both our bylaw enforcement officers and our constituents.

[3:08:41] Voice 9: constituents I'm being consistent with other jurisdictions is a secondary priority for me

[3:08:46] Voice 9: in terms of that it's making sure the language is good is is the first priority um in any case

[3:08:51] Voice 9: and I agree with you I think the specifics of how bylaw is carried out bylaw enforcement is carried

[3:08:56] Voice 9: out um at the local level does fall down between the two two local trust committees and I think

[3:09:05] Voice 9: you know at the top of of section eight says you know suggests that local trust committees may

[3:09:11] Voice 9: adopt discretionary enforcement policies using the following guidelines i i think there needs

[3:09:16] Voice 9: to be a proactive um referral to to lpcs to to define how they want that stuff to go forward

[3:09:23] Voice 9: anyways and we're going down some rabbit holes here but uh i'm going down some holes not we uh

[3:09:28] Voice 9: trustee bowland um

[3:09:32] Voice 3: with the topic approach so again i'm jumping ahead to the best practices

[3:09:40] Voice 3: practices. I think maybe approach is what I'm missing from that. I thought that best

[3:09:49] Voice 3: practices manual would be more generic. It would be what our ethos is, what our feeling

[3:09:59] Voice 3: is about the need for enforcement and compliance, what the rationale is. And, you know, I missed

[3:10:07] Voice 3: that. It sort of says, you know, it says we're here to make sure that the object of the trust

[3:10:16] Voice 3: is enacted, and by the way, and make sure that violators comply, which I didn't like

[3:10:24] Voice 3: the use of the word violators in the first introductory sentence, to be honest. But what

[3:10:29] Voice 3: What I missed was, to me, our approach should be in the first paragraph of that.

[3:10:37] Voice 3: How do we feel about enforcement?

[3:10:41] Voice 3: Why do we think it's necessary?

[3:10:44] Voice 3: And to me, it's not about the object of the trust.

[3:10:47] Voice 3: It's also about safeguarding people and fairness to other people, everybody living in the community.

[3:10:54] Voice 3: So there's a whole bunch of stuff that I missed from that.

[3:10:57] Voice 3: and maybe approaches what that stuff could be called.

[3:11:03] Voice 3: Thanks.

[3:11:05] Voice 9: All right.

[3:11:06] Voice 9: Trustee Elliott.

[3:11:10] Trustee Elliott: Maybe I'm missing something,

[3:11:12] Trustee Elliott: but isn't that all pretty much articulated

[3:11:14] Trustee Elliott: in the best practices draft manual,

[3:11:17] Trustee Elliott: which is attachment four.

[3:11:20] Trustee Elliott: We haven't really talked about that yet,

[3:11:22] Trustee Elliott: but it's the goal for all of us.

[3:11:27] Voice 6: Sorry, I did take that.

[3:11:29] Voice 9: Sorry, sorry, sorry, trustees.

[3:11:31] Voice 9: we can just yeah trustee ella was responding to to you if you want to if you want to speak back

[3:11:37] Voice 9: to that maria we'll come back to you yeah

[3:11:39] Trustee Elliott: so you've got the goal of our process we've got

[3:11:46] Trustee Elliott: um definitions um if there's things that are missing i think that should be going into the

[3:11:53] Trustee Elliott: guide as far as i can tell i've been comparing the draft guide that staff have developed against

[3:11:59] Trustee Elliott: against the ombudsperson's complaints guide there's a few things that might be missing like

[3:12:07] Trustee Elliott: what is bias um i'm not really seeing that but let's not confuse all the different documents

[3:12:17] Trustee Elliott: we've got an ltc specific template which you've been told you can tailor to how your community

[3:12:24] Trustee Elliott: community could best be served with, you know, notice of investigations and all of that. It's a

[3:12:32] Trustee Elliott: template, and I want to get back to that. But the overall guide, I do think, is fairly substantial.

[3:12:42] Trustee Elliott: Let's not get into the weeds here. There's a lot of different things to look at, and maybe

[3:12:45] Trustee Elliott: somebody missed that. So have you worked through the guide, Trustee Boland?

[3:12:54] Voice 6: Trustee Boland, go ahead, if you wish.

[3:12:55] Voice 3: Yes, that was my point, was that I was responding to Laura's request about the approach.

[3:13:03] Voice 3: And in my view, the approach belongs in the guide.

[3:13:07] Voice 3: And I don't see an approach there that answers what I think should be there.

[3:13:13] Voice 3: But I agree, that's why I jumped the guide, because we're talking about approach, what is an approach, where should it be.

[3:13:20] Voice 3: So back on track with the document under discussion.

[3:13:23] Voice 3: Thank you.

[3:13:25] Voice 6: Okay.

[3:13:28] Voice 6: trustee patrick

[3:13:29] Trustee Patrick: i i hate to harp but it is on page nine of the um ombudsman report and a suggestion

[3:13:38] Trustee Patrick: that we review our our current approach that's the wording they use you know review our current

[3:13:46] Trustee Patrick: approach to me indicates that they're suggesting that we need to review our current approach

[3:13:53] Trustee Patrick: against legal and fairness principles and so how much of this document it really is just

[3:14:00] Trustee Patrick: clarifying our current approach versus have we really looked at our current approach and

[3:14:05] Trustee Patrick: questioned if it's if it's correct so i'm pleased i'm not questioning staff i'm just trying to

[3:14:11] Trustee Patrick: understand the recommendation and read between the lines of what the ombudsman why would they

[3:14:15] Trustee Patrick: use the wording that they used that said that suggested that we do a review of our current

[3:14:21] Trustee Patrick: approach yeah

[3:14:27] Voice 9: and i i think that that that that word approach is possibly where we're getting

[3:14:33] Voice 9: tripped up somewhat but uh and i yeah is it's policy or is it what's actually being done on

[3:14:41] Voice 9: the ground and and i don't know that i think our job is is we're somewhat curtailed to to examining

[3:14:47] Voice 9: policy in this but um uh trusty bowen do is your hand still up or do you do something new you wish

[3:14:56] Voice 9: to add uh

[3:15:04] Voice 6: director simon thank

[3:15:09] Voice 12: you mr chair you know the purpose of as as sort of put out in the

[3:15:13] Voice 12: project charter does include uh to be administratively fair reasonable and transparent

[3:15:18] Voice 12: um so i i think staff have taken that lens to review you know providing you with all that

[3:15:23] Voice 12: information in terms of the word approach i think we're kind of getting hung up in it but

[3:15:27] Voice 12: you know i understand i think i understand the nuance that trustee patrick is getting at

[3:15:31] Voice 12: the bigger picture of an approach. I think what you have before you is indeed staff interpreting

[3:15:40] Voice 12: the legalness of it. I think it's been reviewed through that. I think you heard Manager Dingman

[3:15:46] Voice 12: go into some detail about the review of various policies and what have you.

[3:15:50] Voice 12: And then I think in terms of the approaches, your policy structure, your best management practice,

[3:15:57] Voice 12: and in fact your LTC template that you have.

[3:16:02] Voice 12: So I think you have before you

[3:16:04] Voice 12: a recommended change in approach.

[3:16:05] Voice 12: And as again, you heard Manager Dingman say

[3:16:08] Voice 12: that the LTCs themselves being more control

[3:16:11] Voice 12: of bio-enforcement approaches,

[3:16:13] Voice 12: whether it be investigation, notification time periods,

[3:16:17] Voice 12: what's a priority, what's not a priority,

[3:16:19] Voice 12: all that is a new approach.

[3:16:21] Voice 12: So I think you have that.

[3:16:23] Voice 12: So I think we're kind of getting stuck in a word

[3:16:25] Voice 12: and um i recommend that you see that what before you as a new way of doing things is exactly that

[3:16:31] Voice 12: and i don't think the ombuds person meant more than that but you know again if i'm wrong you

[3:16:37] Voice 12: refer to the ombuds person to say you didn't do this well then maybe we'll all stand to be

[3:16:43] Voice 12: corrected yeah

[3:16:49] Voice 9: and i i think uh yeah i mean i again i think the the the the the plan here is

[3:16:58] Voice 9: to try and get towards a good foundational document

[3:17:01] Voice 9: and then ask LTCs to,

[3:17:04] Voice 9: and perhaps we can develop a specific set of guidelines

[3:17:08] Voice 9: for what we want LTCs to develop as their stuff.

[3:17:13] Voice 9: We can come up with a list of like,

[3:17:14] Voice 9: okay, here are the considerations.

[3:17:17] Voice 9: What questions do you need to ask of yourselves

[3:17:19] Voice 9: and figure out as an LTC for your community?

[3:17:23] Voice 9: Trustee Graham.

[3:17:24] Voice 11: Yeah, thank you, Chair.

[3:17:26] Voice 11: Yeah, I agree with Director Cermak. It's possible that the ombudsperson was looking at the number of personal complaints that they've received. And that was part of the investigation of bylaw compliance and enforcement on the trust area.

[3:17:44] Voice 11: And so the approach, obviously, is a very personal perspective, which is in the hands of the local trust committees. We as LTCs choose the approach that our community will respond to. I believe that's our role.

[3:18:03] Voice 11: and it's tricky this having trust council have a overarching policy i i get confused well how deep

[3:18:12] Voice 11: does that policy go because every time we start to talk to refine the policies of the trust council

[3:18:17] Voice 11: policy we start to overlap in some of the areas that have local trust committee responsibility

[3:18:21] Voice 11: so you know like the trust council policy probably needs to be really short really short and then the

[3:18:29] Voice 11: The details need to be at the local trust committee area.

[3:18:32] Voice 11: That's just my feeling, because as soon as you start to make the trust council policy on compliance and enforcement detail, you're probably bumping into some of the nuance that exists at the local trust committee level.

[3:18:47] Voice 11: Anyway.

[3:18:51] Voice 9: Yeah, I think that would align with my perspective on this process, is that this should be a very broad document that sets the general tone.

[3:19:04] Voice 9: and then request that LTCs flesh out their specific desires for bylaw enforcement and

[3:19:11] Voice 9: compliance at that level. And I think that speaks a little bit to what Warren has been saying about

[3:19:20] Voice 9: this process, too, is that that specificity should exist at the LTC level. So anyways,

[3:19:31] Voice 9: Anyways, I know we're chasing our tails a little bit here.

[3:19:35] Voice 9: Do we wanna move on to the sort of second,

[3:19:41] Voice 9: I mean, the request here or the recommendation here

[3:19:44] Voice 9: is that we review and provide direction

[3:19:45] Voice 9: on this draft compliance and enforcement policy.

[3:19:52] Voice 9: Do we feel like we're in a position

[3:19:54] Voice 9: to do that sort of work

[3:19:55] Voice 9: or should we move through this discussion,

[3:19:57] Voice 9: sort of address some of the other documents

[3:19:59] Voice 9: and then kind of come back around?

[3:20:05] Voice 9: Trustee Patrick.

[3:20:07] Trustee Patrick: I'm sorry, I have my video off. My Wi-Fi is not stable. My only question, again, is the readability and plain language piece. How do we do that? How do we get that feedback? How do we test it in some way to get that feedback on, is this readable?

[3:20:29] Voice 9: Trustee Graham?

[3:20:31] Voice 11: My suggestion is that we rely on the best practices manual, which is really the interface

[3:20:36] Voice 11: between our community and the legalese that we're stuck with being a local government.

[3:20:42] Voice 11: I think we can be a lot more liberal with our language, with the manual, and make it

[3:20:47] Voice 11: readable and use examples that people can relate to and leave the policy to the policy

[3:20:53] Voice 11: walks, those of us that like to dive into the nuance of the words and all that kind

[3:20:58] Voice 11: Because most people aren't going to really dive into trust counsel policy. They're going to look at the manual and think, okay, so this is, you know, when I'm going to work on something in my house, I grab the manual and I hope I can read it. And that manual needs to be very readable. I think we get rid of all those acronyms, tighten up the language, examples are good.

[3:21:21] Voice 11: So there's a lot more work, I believe, that is required in that best practice manual.

[3:21:27] Voice 11: It's a good start, but I think it needs some work.

[3:21:30] Voice 11: And I don't know if this body is prepared to do that or if we just turn it back to Warren

[3:21:35] Voice 11: and his team and suggest that they use that lens that the person's reading this doesn't

[3:21:41] Voice 11: really have a trust background, doesn't have a legal background, doesn't have a policy

[3:21:45] Voice 11: background.

[3:21:45] Voice 11: They're just a regular Jane and Joe Islander, and they need to understand.

[3:21:51] Voice 11: how this works on their island trustee

[3:21:56] Voice 9: elliott you

[3:21:58] Trustee Elliott: took the words out of my mouth trustee graham um

[3:22:00] Trustee Elliott: i actually suggest that we move to looking at the policy or the best practices manual because

[3:22:07] Trustee Elliott: that's going to contain the the forward-facing information then we backtrack to the policies

[3:22:12] Trustee Elliott: which are for our work and to give direction to staff i don't think there has to be plain

[3:22:19] Trustee Elliott: languaging and policies it needs to be very clear in direction and staff need to understand

[3:22:24] Trustee Elliott: what the intent is when we draft a policy so um could we move to point three work through that

[3:22:31] Trustee Elliott: manual and then go back to those policies i think that's where we're getting hung up

[3:22:35] Trustee Elliott: i

[3:22:36] Voice 9: think that's a great idea uh so yeah let's let's move to uh to that so this is i believe

[3:22:43] Voice 9: page 75 is where the sort of table of contents is um so in terms of i i would agree with with

[3:22:53] Voice 9: trustee graham and trustee elliot in this and it's like let's let's strip this down make it

[3:22:57] Voice 9: make it a very practical document for someone to be able to pick up and and quickly you know

[3:23:03] Voice 9: understand and come to grips with understanding how we do this um and then use use policies and

[3:23:10] Voice 9: and LTC's specific bylaw enforcement policies

[3:23:14] Voice 9: to really set out the specifics.

[3:23:17] Voice 9: That being said, what are people's feelings

[3:23:21] Voice 9: on the best practices document that exists?

[3:23:31] Voice 9: Trustee Graham.

[3:23:33] Voice 11: Yeah, I mean, it's possible that we're all sitting here

[3:23:35] Voice 11: looking at pieces of paper with our own edits,

[3:23:38] Voice 11: and I'm happy to take five minutes and go through mine,

[3:23:40] Voice 11: and just as a start.

[3:23:43] Voice 11: So if that works for everybody, and I won't be long.

[3:23:46] Voice 11: um yeah it's it starts at page 74 and on page 78 um the underlined it's the sentence starts

[3:23:59] Voice 11: the policy i think it's in the first paragraph but there's no policy that's referenced it's just

[3:24:05] Voice 11: talks this the policy just kind of pops out and the policy actually isn't even referenced until

[3:24:11] Voice 11: paragraph four so there's a there's a there's a disconnect there in that particular statement like

[3:24:16] Voice 11: Like, don't talk about something until we've defined it.

[3:24:21] Voice 11: And then we can go, oh, yeah, that policy, I heard about that.

[3:24:24] Voice 11: So that's just one thing.

[3:24:28] Voice 11: Acronyms, let's just get rid of them.

[3:24:30] Voice 11: Because there's a lot.

[3:24:31] Voice 11: They're sprinkled throughout the document.

[3:24:33] Voice 11: On page 81, there's an EDM.

[3:24:35] Voice 11: I don't know what an EDM is.

[3:24:37] Voice 11: On page 82, there's a DFS.

[3:24:41] Voice 11: There's OCP and LUB sprinkled about.

[3:24:44] Voice 11: out, and then there's BCEO, and I, you know, they're just offensive to me, because I have to,

[3:24:51] Voice 11: I can't remember when I, when I unplug, when I figure out what it is, and then I see it two

[3:24:56] Voice 11: paragraphs later, my brain goes, oh, I should know that, I just saw that, but I don't know that, so

[3:25:01] Voice 11: again, the reader is not going to be comfortable with acronyms, let's spell it out, I know it's

[3:25:07] Voice 11: more words, but it's, it's, it's a good thing to do. There's an info box on page 82, and it's in

[3:25:14] Voice 11: the middle of a section which doesn't relate to the section at all and it should be moved to page

[3:25:19] Voice 11: 85. So there's all sorts of little things here that it just needs a lot of work and I mean

[3:25:25] Voice 11: we could spend hours and hours and hours rewriting this. I'd rather take it, turn it back to those

[3:25:30] Voice 11: that built it and give them a different lens as a community member lens. Write this as if it's

[3:25:38] Voice 11: It's understood by just, as I said, I don't want to belabor the point.

[3:25:43] Voice 11: I think you get the point.

[3:25:48] Voice 6: Yeah, absolutely.

[3:25:49] Voice 6: Well, Trustee Elliott.

[3:25:52] Trustee Elliott: Thanks for jumping us off there.

[3:25:55] Trustee Elliott: I do agree.

[3:25:56] Trustee Elliott: So an example of plain languaging might be, if we go to page 78 here, the purpose of the bylaw compliance and enforcement program.

[3:26:09] Trustee Elliott: program, it's then the program investigates alleged or apparent contraventions of the land

[3:26:17] Trustee Elliott: use bylaws of local trust committee in paragraph four, whatever. But it doesn't ever define what

[3:26:22] Trustee Elliott: a complaint is. And if you go back to the model complaints policy, I keep harping on this because

[3:26:29] Trustee Elliott: it, sorry, the ombuds complaint handling guide, I apologize. It says you should, we should state

[3:26:38] Trustee Elliott: what a complaint is why they're important uh what a complaint is not and we do have a section

[3:26:44] Trustee Elliott: called what a complaint is not but this is kind of all mushed up with our um sorry for my language

[3:26:54] Trustee Elliott: it's it's it's too policy uh driven and i do think we could articulate much more clearly

[3:27:03] Trustee Elliott: what a complaint is what a complaint is not so could we use um some of the language from that

[3:27:09] Trustee Elliott: guide then the second one is um how do we handle bias i'm looking on page nine of the complaint

[3:27:17] Trustee Elliott: handling guide is that does that have a place in our um or an acknowledgement of how bias can

[3:27:26] Trustee Elliott: can contribute to, and we want to improve our system if we discover that. How do we improve

[3:27:34] Trustee Elliott: our system? And then I wanted to go to 4.3 of the guide, and I realize I'm zooming all over

[3:27:44] Trustee Elliott: the place here. Assessing complaints, there is a really good list of how an LTC might want to

[3:27:53] Trustee Elliott: assess complaints. So I just think we need to do more work. Can we, in our recommendation to

[3:28:05] Trustee Elliott: Trust Council, put forward this draft and say that our recommendation is that there's more

[3:28:14] Trustee Elliott: plain language work needed and we need some more definitions and some articulation that it needs

[3:28:22] Trustee Elliott: needs to be needs to have some work done because I don't think it's ready to go to trust council

[3:28:27] Trustee Elliott: but I don't want the rest of the trustees not to see this yeah

[3:28:33] Voice 9: I like I like that as a way of of

[3:28:35] Voice 9: sort of moving this you know letting people see what's been done because I think there is there's

[3:28:39] Voice 9: good work in here but I would agree that that you know um distilling this this document some

[3:28:45] Voice 9: further would be really valuable um trustee Patrick yeah

[3:28:50] Trustee Patrick: well none of us are plain language

[3:28:53] Trustee Patrick: which, you know, experts, yes, we could spend hours diddling over this and we're not going to

[3:28:58] Trustee Patrick: get any better. You know, I went back, I looked at Abbotsford, I think was, they set out to create

[3:29:04] Trustee Patrick: all of their enforcement policies with a plain language approach to make it easier for people

[3:29:09] Trustee Patrick: to understand. And I think this project from the beginning, we've done with zero dollars

[3:29:18] Trustee Patrick: attributed to it. And this is the most public-facing aspect of the work we do. I mean,

[3:29:24] Trustee Patrick: we think maybe our planner is doing an application, but someone gets a letter slapped in their

[3:29:29] Trustee Patrick: mailbox or however they receive it, and voila, that's their introduction to the Islands Trust,

[3:29:34] Trustee Patrick: and we all know how that ends up. So this is so important, and we're doing it with no money. So I

[3:29:40] Trustee Patrick: think if this wants to go forward to Trust Council as is, it should go with a request for a budget

[3:29:46] Trustee Patrick: it to get in the expert plain language people to create this in a manual aspect that that reads to

[3:29:55] Trustee Patrick: to someone you know hey you received a letter what does this mean you know and and do

[3:30:00] Trustee Patrick: it in a way that right from the beginning just helps our profile yeah

[3:30:06] Voice 9: i i think that's that's

[3:30:08] Voice 9: really good perspective trustee boland um

[3:30:17] Voice 3: i agree with everything that's been said and this best

[3:30:20] Voice 3: practices guide reads to me like it's a procedure it's the repeat of all the processes and to me

[3:30:28] Voice 3: it should be a friendly document and so there's nothing maybe wrong specifically

[3:30:35] Voice 3: with the content other than the first paragraph where I believe that you know

[3:30:41] Voice 3: bylaw compliance enforcement is about a bit more than was described there but I

[3:30:48] Voice 3: would suggest do we not have communication people in the Isle of Trust I know

[3:30:54] Voice 3: know everybody was overworked but if we were pushed to reassign or make choices i think having

[3:31:01] Voice 3: this rewritten by somebody who's already experienced and sitting in the island's trust

[3:31:07] Voice 3: would be excellent um just to make it friendly and make it accessible and um yeah and i've said

[3:31:16] Voice 3: i agree with everybody everything that everybody has said before thank you yeah

[3:31:23] Voice 9: i think there's

[3:31:23] Voice 9: definitely value in making sure that we're taking advantage of our staff who have that expertise

[3:31:28] Voice 9: already within within the body um and i'm i'm you know as as trustee patrick points out we've we've

[3:31:36] Voice 9: asked staff to undertake this process with without a business case supporting the the time and work

[3:31:42] Voice 9: that it takes um so i'd be interested to hear from director sermac perhaps his thoughts of of how

[3:31:51] Voice 9: how best to sort of advance that intent

[3:31:55] Voice 9: and whether there's space for our communications staff

[3:31:59] Voice 9: to be a part of that process.

[3:32:01] Voice 9: And should we perhaps request a business case

[3:32:06] Voice 9: on those strengths?

[3:32:08] Voice 12: Sure, through the chair.

[3:32:10] Voice 12: What I'm hearing is a desire to make this more,

[3:32:15] Voice 12: I don't know, you're saying readable.

[3:32:19] Voice 12: When I read the document, honestly,

[3:32:20] Voice 12: it seems readable to me.

[3:32:22] Voice 12: and I'm not hearing arguments too much with the content aside for some things but absolutely we

[3:32:26] Voice 12: can get our communication specialist to take a first screening through to try to present a

[3:32:33] Voice 12: document that's more as you described to be plain language and make that recommendation to trust

[3:32:38] Voice 12: council I don't I don't think that would be a huge burden for for that staff person remind you that

[3:32:45] Voice 12: this is just your first draft make that recommendation and then you'll have a chance to

[3:32:50] Voice 12: reconsider it come you know in the new year so happy to use that you know i think there's a

[3:32:57] Voice 12: desire partially it almost sounds like to make there's a balance between a good policy best

[3:33:02] Voice 12: practices that staff use and can communicate with versus like a communications piece so i

[3:33:07] Voice 12: don't think anything we do in the trust council level with policies really becomes

[3:33:12] Voice 12: an ideal communications piece i think there's a kind of a desire to do something in a certain

[3:33:18] Voice 12: way that we generally don't do and maybe this is i'm hearing you saying you want to change that

[3:33:24] Voice 12: but it'll be a substantive i think change the project charter and if that's what you want and

[3:33:29] Voice 12: trust council agrees then we'll have to produce a business case appropriately so i think this

[3:33:33] Voice 12: committee will just have to come to consensus about what you would like to do recommend that

[3:33:37] Voice 12: to trust council and staff would be more than happy to carry out that direction in the meantime

[3:33:40] Voice 12: we certainly can get a review by um the communication specialist to get it to a more

[3:33:46] Voice 12: friendly place yeah

[3:33:49] Voice 9: i mean i think i think the the the best practices guide should be um should be

[3:33:56] Voice 9: able to to be consumed by by both the public and and by our staff as a as a policy as a as an

[3:34:03] Voice 9: understanding a place to understand how the policy comes forward um and the policies are where we we

[3:34:10] Voice 9: lay out those specifics um trustee boland do you have your hand up i don't know if that's still

[3:34:17] Voice 9: from before if you'd like to speak again okay uh trustee patrick we

[3:34:23] Trustee Patrick: made it clear in the project

[3:34:24] Trustee Patrick: charter that this was about restoring trust this is that important um and um i mean the

[3:34:35] Trustee Patrick: ombudsman report is very clear this has two purposes directing staff and it's a public

[3:34:39] Trustee Patrick: communications piece it has to speak to the people who are are being there so this isn't us going off

[3:34:46] Trustee Patrick: on some new direction this is about reading the report and responding to the comments that are

[3:34:50] Trustee Patrick: there and i went back quickly and took a look at the abbotsford work they made it clear right from

[3:34:55] Trustee Patrick: the beginning their priority was um voluntary compliance that that's what they wanted for

[3:35:02] Trustee Patrick: everything and they made that from the beginning so that the document was really about driving

[3:35:06] Trustee Patrick: people to that voluntary compliance point that all other levels of bylaw enforcement are you know

[3:35:13] Trustee Patrick: of ratcheting it up. And that's where we begin to, that's the tough stuff, that we really want

[3:35:20] Trustee Patrick: to be driving people in that direction and make it crystal clear, how do I do it? And I think the

[3:35:24] Trustee Patrick: majority of the people just want to do that. Most people just want to be compliant.

[3:35:33] Voice 9: Yeah, I think that should definitely be our focus in this. So, well, sorry, Trustee Graham.

[3:35:41] Voice 9: Thank

[3:35:42] Voice 11: you, Chair. And just one more aspect that I think we forget that perhaps trustees hear at community meetings all the time. I'm always cognizant of the fact that most of the people sitting at a community meeting don't know that the rules that we're talking about are their rules.

[3:35:59] Voice 11: They were developed in consultation with community members that perhaps have lived here for decades.

[3:36:05] Voice 11: So because they always want to say, well, the trust is making me do this.

[3:36:08] Voice 11: And I say, well, actually, that rule came from a bunch of people sitting in this very room and talking about what they wanted.

[3:36:15] Voice 11: So let's just own the fact that these are our bylaws.

[3:36:18] Voice 11: If we don't like them, we have the process to amend them, to change them.

[3:36:22] Voice 11: You're in the driver's seat, community people.

[3:36:24] Voice 11: So even our bylaw compliance and enforcement, when we say our goal is compliance, we should also say compliance with the rules that each community has developed on their own. I think that's important.

[3:36:39] Voice 11: Trustee Lackham.

[3:36:41] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Trustee Graham.

[3:36:47] Voice 9: all right um so i think i don't think there's there's any real dissension around the fact that

[3:36:55] Voice 9: we would like this document to uh to to be reworked to some degree um i think we need

[3:37:04] Voice 9: to give some direction to staff to to sort of send that back if i'm understanding how this process

[3:37:09] Voice 9: needs to work do can we can we work on something like that to sort of

[3:37:17] Voice 9: redirect this and or perhaps director sir Mac you've got a suggestion on how

[3:37:22] Voice 9: best to refer this back to you guys sure

[3:37:27] Voice 12: through the charity you have the

[3:37:30] Voice 12: recommendations it's right let me I'll have to scroll to it to from the

[3:37:35] Voice 12: original staff report let me just get there or the RFD pardon me scrolling

[3:37:41] Voice 12: Scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Okay, there we

[3:37:43] Voice 12: go. And then, so page, where are we? Made some recommendations on page 52. There it is. And these resolutions sort of help, you know, help you sort of, as you proceed, you'll note that resolution number two, oh, it's on your screen, great, that the regional planning committee for the whatever document we're talking about, whether it's the policy, the LTC template, or the manual, to the ombudsperson's office for comment.

[3:38:10] Voice 12: That type of language, you could also say that the RPC forward the document to, you know, communication specialist for review for plain language or something like that.

[3:38:22] Voice 12: So try to give you a bit of a structure so you know how you can refer this document and you know how you can sort of itemize the list that you want, things that you want to change and whether it be the policy or the manual or the template.

[3:38:35] Voice 12: Does that help you, Chair Borthwick?

[3:38:37] Voice 9: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[3:38:39] Voice 9: I see Trustee Elliott's cut their hand up, and then, yeah, let's get to it.

[3:38:45] Trustee Elliott: So one way, another way that I think staff could be asked to review this and see if it contains everything that is needed is go back to the complaints.

[3:38:59] Trustee Elliott: Sorry, very loud chimes there.

[3:39:01] Trustee Elliott: The ombudsperson's complaint guides, and they've got a complaints process self-assessment checklist.

[3:39:06] Trustee Elliott: checklist, there is a list of questions like, does our complaint policy include a definition

[3:39:13] Trustee Elliott: of a complaint? Do we have a three-tiered complaint process that encourages early

[3:39:16] Trustee Elliott: resolution of complaints? So I would ask staff, have we worked through that checklist

[3:39:23] Trustee Elliott: to be certain that, A, we've got all the components in our various documents? And then

[3:39:31] Trustee Elliott: I don't know if communication specialists would be the right person for this,

[3:39:35] Trustee Elliott: but that could be a good first step. Or do we need to secure some dollars for a consultant to do

[3:39:43] Trustee Elliott: some more work on the draft manual?

[3:39:49] Voice 9: My understanding from Director Cermak is that

[3:39:52] Voice 9: it wouldn't be an undue burden to run this past our communications specialist. And I would be

[3:40:00] Voice 9: inclined to start with the resources we have in-house before hiring a consultant. But I'm

[3:40:07] Voice 9: I'm open to talking about that further.

[3:40:08] Voice 9: I

[3:40:08] Trustee Elliott: think we should also, we should give some direction, though.

[3:40:12] Trustee Elliott: Like, what does this committee want to see so that the communications specialist is reviewing it with the right goal in mind?

[3:40:20] Trustee Elliott: So it is plain language.

[3:40:23] Trustee Elliott: It's foregrounding.

[3:40:26] Trustee Elliott: I don't know what it is.

[3:40:27] Trustee Elliott: Whatever we've discussed today.

[3:40:33] Voice 6: Yeah.

[3:40:34] Voice 9: No, absolutely.

[3:40:35] Voice 9: All right.

[3:40:36] Voice 9: Right. Well, we should we should try and put a resolution to staff to help us move forward.

[3:40:41] Voice 9: And I think Director Cermak has given us a leaping off point for for this.

[3:40:47] Voice 9: Does anybody want to give that a go or should we trusty boned?

[3:40:53] Voice 3: Just a thought. I would be willing and I don't know if anybody else would be to review or be part of some kind of editorial board work group.

[3:41:04] Voice 3: rather than you know work work work work turn up at trust council and have everybody scratch their

[3:41:10] Voice 3: heads you know if there were some intermediate steps i would be willing and happy to be part of

[3:41:16] Voice 3: that what does anybody else think um

[3:41:24] Voice 9: we could we could strike a working group for for something

[3:41:27] Voice 9: like this i mean i think it's worth it to take advantage of our our staff as well on this stuff

[3:41:34] Voice 9: Yeah,

[3:41:35] Voice 3: no, no, I really meant just like, so the staff would carry on, but could consult because as Trustee Elliott said, we haven't given clear direction. But if we have a little working group to give a bit of clear direction, and to be a sort of a sounding board as they prepared it, I think that might make things go a little smoother.

[3:42:02] Voice 9: Yeah. I'm certainly open to that suggestion. Director Cermak?

[3:42:10] Voice 12: Sure. Sort of tangential to that option, I just want to remind all of you that the

[3:42:16] Voice 12: Trust Council agenda package is being finalized more or less this Friday. So whatever recommendations

[3:42:21] Voice 12: you make, we were going to action right away, put together an RFD for Trust Council consideration

[3:42:27] Voice 12: because it goes on the EC agenda and of course the Trust Council. So if you're wishing to put

[3:42:31] Voice 12: together a working group or something like that um i would recommend that be post trust council

[3:42:37] Voice 12: and and then you can sort of action follow up on whatever the the wishes of trust council are

[3:42:42] Voice 12: just just um telling you a little bit about internal yeah

[3:42:45] Voice 9: the timelines are getting pretty

[3:42:47] Voice 9: tight uh trustee patrick i

[3:42:50] Trustee Patrick: think we could either at this point just make it more general that we're

[3:42:53] Trustee Patrick: directing that a plain language version of the manual be created um and that we're requesting

[3:42:58] Trustee Patrick: staff to to you know come back with options to do that but

[3:43:07] Trustee Luckham: i

[3:43:17] Trustee Elliott: also request that we ask staff to work

[3:43:19] Trustee Elliott: through make sure they work through the self-assessment checklist that's in the complaint

[3:43:24] Trustee Elliott: handling guide by the ombudsperson's office yes

[3:43:26] Voice 9: let's let's make a let's make a resolution that

[3:43:29] Voice 9: captures this to to give a direct but let's let's yeah let's hand this to staff directly

[3:43:37] Voice 9: I think is a good thing to aspire to

[3:43:45] Voice 9: I'm trying to draft something here

[3:43:47] Voice 9: in front of me but

[3:43:48] Voice 9: we

[3:44:08] Trustee Patrick: could just request Rob to sort of

[3:44:10] Trustee Patrick: we could work a

[3:44:12] Trustee Patrick: work a resolution together without

[3:44:14] Trustee Patrick: seconding it and get it right

[3:44:15] Trustee Patrick: yeah

[3:44:16] Voice 9: I think that's probably the way to go

[3:44:18] Voice 9: Rob is already set to go

[3:44:20] Voice 9: so yeah I think

[3:44:26] Voice 9: what we're talking about

[3:44:29] Voice 9: here is the best practice manual

[3:44:31] Voice 9: so I just don't know if that's

[3:44:33] Voice 9: It's the Biola Compliance and Enforcement Best Practices Manual.

[3:44:41] Voice 9: So that the Regional Planning Committee refer.

[3:44:56] Voice 11: You see Trustee Elliott has provided in the chat the language that she was referring to.

[3:45:01] Voice 9: Yeah, and I would sort of tack that on.

[3:45:04] Voice 9: So we refer to, is it too broad to say staff, Director Cermak, or would you like it addressed to someone in particular?

[3:45:17] Voice 12: I think Trustee Patrick had the right ideas that request staff to amend the best practices manual for, sorry, I did have the words, for readability, plain language,

[3:45:32] Voice 12: and friendliness is the words I got, the key words.

[3:45:35] Trustee Patrick: Plain language, yeah, plain language version.

[3:45:40] Trustee Elliott: I think my resolution is a separate piece, and I just would check and ask if maybe it's already been done.

[3:45:48] Trustee Elliott: I just didn't see some of the components in there, so that's why I'm asking.

[3:45:55] Trustee Patrick: I think you could say, Rob, at the end of the manual, just say, to create a plain language version and request to come back with options on how to do that.

[3:46:15] Trustee Patrick: How to, options, I guess.

[3:46:32] Voice 9: Committee, what do we think? Does that capture our stuff? And Director Cermak, do you have any, how does that strike you?

[3:46:41] Voice 12: Well, thank you, Chair. I think I'm seeing two things in that resolution. Certainly,

[3:46:48] Voice 12: the first part that the RPC request staff to amend the bylaw compliance enforcement

[3:46:51] Voice 12: best practice manual to create a plain language version, easy. And request staff to return

[3:46:57] Voice 12: with options, suddenly muddies it. I think I understand why, but perhaps maybe Trustee

[3:47:03] Voice 12: Patrick would take the recommendation, maybe allow us a first kick at it. I have no doubt

[3:47:08] Voice 12: there will be recommended changes to it but uh let us maybe try our communication specials to

[3:47:13] Voice 12: have a go at it and if it still doesn't meet the needs of rpc then we can um then the obvious next

[3:47:18] Voice 12: option is to get somebody who who can do uh meet your needs better and that might also time well

[3:47:25] Voice 12: with um um next year's budget cool

[3:47:30] Voice 8: yeah i like that and does that does that work for you trustee

[3:47:33] Voice 8: patrick if we take off uh sure

[3:47:35] Trustee Patrick: sure i was just uh i was just pre-empting if uh communication staff

[3:47:39] Trustee Patrick: go what nope we're busy

[3:47:41] Voice 12: that's very reasonable and i apologize if that turns out to be true we

[3:47:46] Voice 12: get 25 percent of our time sorry mr chair nope no no that's no

[3:47:50] Voice 9: that's fine uh all right well

[3:47:51] Voice 9: do i have a mover would somebody like to move that i

[3:47:57] Trustee Patrick: can so move wonderful

[3:48:00] Voice 9: and i think we can

[3:48:01] Voice 9: There

[3:48:02] Voice 3: are two deaths before bylaw.

[3:48:10] Voice 11: It's a stutter.

[3:48:15] Voice 8: Good catch, Trustee Boland.

[3:48:17] Voice 8: All right.

[3:48:18] Voice 8: So I believe Trustee Patrick is moving this.

[3:48:21] Voice 8: Do we have a second?

[3:48:22] Voice 8: I

[3:48:25] Voice 9: see David Graham.

[3:48:26] Voice 9: And so I will say let's call the vote.

[3:48:31] Voice 9: All in favor, raise your hand.

[3:48:33] Voice 9: And then please lower your hands.

[3:48:45] Voice 9: And any opposed?

[3:48:49] Voice 11: Sorry, I just had a question.

[3:48:50] Voice 8: Okay.

[3:48:51] Voice 8: Yeah.

[3:48:52] Voice 11: um i presume and i don't know if this is true which version will be going to trust council

[3:48:57] Voice 11: in a couple of weeks time i can answer that mr chair the

[3:49:04] Voice 12: uh the current version you have before

[3:49:06] Voice 12: you will go and the staff report will say that the rpc has requested staff to do the following

[3:49:11] Voice 12: and then we'll do it after the trust council so

[3:49:18] Voice 9: i believe that carries i did not call for a

[3:49:26] Voice 9: discussion on the motion but i feel like we discussed it quite a lot so but i will

[3:49:31] Voice 9: we'll try to remember to do that uh i believe that carried so excellent things are happening

[3:49:45] Voice 9: okay um

[3:49:46] Trustee Elliott: yeah that's on that manual i

[3:49:49] Voice 9: was just about to ask you go please go ahead

[3:49:54] Trustee Elliott: and this is this is more of a question to staff you may have already done this work so um

[3:49:59] Trustee Elliott: And my motion was to request that staff work through the self-assessment checklist of the BC Ombudsperson's Complaint Handling Guide to ensure all the recommended components are included in the, I should put, draft manual and amended policies.

[3:50:20] Trustee Elliott: policies. Um, and so I had sent an email to RPC. So if anybody else is, um, you know, not seeing

[3:50:32] Trustee Elliott: that manual, it's, it is there. I just, I didn't, I see it. I saw it referenced only once in the

[3:50:38] Trustee Elliott: materials. Uh, but it seems that there's some good, there's some elements that would support

[3:50:45] Trustee Elliott: support some aspects of the policy development as well. Specifically, section 4.3, assessing

[3:50:54] Trustee Elliott: complaints. I would say that should be added to, if we go back to the draft LTC policy enforcement

[3:51:02] Trustee Elliott: and compliance, the priorities, like how an LTC sets priorities. We could add a section or a line

[3:51:11] Trustee Elliott: that LTCs could triage complaints by considering factors that are listed in that guide. Maybe we

[3:51:19] Trustee Elliott: need to list those out because it's a different way of assessing priorities instead of just by

[3:51:26] Trustee Elliott: standing resolutions or deferments. There's other ways that you can triage complaints and that's

[3:51:36] Trustee Elliott: what's included in the guide. So I just want to make sure that we covered everything off

[3:51:40] Trustee Elliott: by working through that self-assessment checklist.

[3:51:43] Trustee Elliott: And

[3:51:44] Voice 9: I do see that Director Stoneman has his hand up.

[3:51:47] Voice 12: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to clarify with Trustee Elliott and the group

[3:51:52] Voice 12: that this complaints checklist that the ombudsperson that's being referenced to is more

[3:51:58] Voice 12: in relation or is directly in relation to draft policy amendments to policy 7.1.2 in your it's not

[3:52:06] Voice 12: the bylaw enforcement complaints it's the overall complaint policy that's what it's meant to be

[3:52:10] Voice 12: referencing and so that you you've so far talked about the bylaw enforcement policy you've talked

[3:52:17] Voice 12: about the ltc policy template and now you're talking about best practices there's one more

[3:52:22] Voice 12: thing you're talking about and i believe this is what's properly being referenced is the policy 7.12

[3:52:27] Voice 12: which is changing the administrative fairness complaint policy to there it is oh rob you're

[3:52:33] Voice 12: just amazing is this document here so the question i believe trustee elliott is asking is have we

[3:52:39] Voice 12: applied the self-assessment checklist to this and honestly i don't know so okay well but that's a

[3:52:45] Voice 12: great question i'd love to do the work if it hasn't been done already uh

[3:52:49] Voice 9: well uh we do have

[3:52:51] Voice 9: staff so the staff who came up with these these these documents are believed with us in the

[3:52:56] Voice 9: meeting um maybe they can answer that question for for trustee ellia they're either warren uh or or

[3:53:13] Voice 9: anthony if i sure

[3:53:15] Voice 18: can you just repeat the question um so i i can thanks um yeah

[3:53:21] Trustee Elliott: so so i was looking

[3:53:23] Trustee Elliott: at the bc ombudsperson's complaint handling guide and uh director cervak uh is instructed me that

[3:53:33] Trustee Elliott: that that guide is really only applicable to this handling of complaints policy, which we haven't

[3:53:40] Trustee Elliott: talked about. So my question is, have you worked through or has anyone worked through,

[3:53:47] Trustee Elliott: there's a section at the end that's quite a long checklist called a self-assessment checklist. Do

[3:53:53] Trustee Elliott: we make it easy for people to raise concerns about our organization? Does our organization

[3:53:56] Trustee Elliott: take actions on issues? So it's going through that to make sure that everything that the

[3:54:03] Trustee Elliott: ombudsperson thinks is important in a complaints process is included in um our handling of

[3:54:10] Trustee Elliott: complaints and that might be beyond the scope of this policy we may need another forward-facing

[3:54:14] Trustee Elliott: document that's more explanatory but um yeah thanks for putting that link up director sir mac

[3:54:21] Voice 18: yeah so the the checklist wasn't um i didn't personally go through it and compare it to what

[3:54:29] Voice 18: we currently have. The only thing that I did do for this specific policy was to compare it to the

[3:54:37] Voice 18: template that they provided. I think that it is something that staff can do is to compare it to

[3:54:44] Voice 18: the checklist and to see where we are lacking in terms of our handling of complaints policies.

[3:54:53] Voice 18: policies but for this exercise I just used the the template that they provided the link they

[3:55:01] Voice 18: provided in the the report yeah

[3:55:06] Trustee Elliott: and I can see that because there isn't anything about unreasonable

[3:55:11] Trustee Elliott: conduct or how we support staff who respond to complaints and that's why I'm saying this may

[3:55:17] Trustee Elliott: may not be strictly referring to a policy document, but there is further work to do on

[3:55:25] Trustee Elliott: staff training and handling, you know, complainants who are unreasonable, right? And then

[3:55:32] Trustee Elliott: we come into conflict with our staff. So I think working through this checklist could help us

[3:55:37] Trustee Elliott: identify the future work for this whole project. So it's not necessarily just saying, yes, we've

[3:55:43] Trustee Elliott: got that all in this policy but what is missing and may need to go into a um there's a further

[3:55:52] Trustee Elliott: step you know and that may be with the hr and supporting staff kind of thing thanks so i'll

[3:55:58] Voice 9: try to

[3:55:59] Trustee Elliott: draft something yeah

[3:56:00] Voice 9: if you if you would draft a direction because i think that's i think

[3:56:03] Voice 9: that that checklist is good and can be a good thing and yeah absolutely it's pretty reasonable

[3:56:08] Voice 9: that staff have have gone from the template that they they were given but i think that's a good

[3:56:13] Voice 9: supporting document to sort of enhance that lens. Trustee Luckin.

[3:56:19] Trustee Luckham: So are we formally on 7.2.8.2 at this point, or did we just segue into that from

[3:56:28] Trustee Luckham: the previous 5.5.1 policy?

[3:56:32] Voice 9: We segued into this. It is, I think, going to be part of this

[3:56:37] Voice 9: broader conversation. Moving through the, you know, trying to structure this discussion,

[3:56:44] Voice 9: because it does they are all very interrelated um but if you think that's a good thing for us

[3:56:49] Voice 9: to talk about too because i think there's there's good stuff in here sure

[3:56:52] Trustee Luckham: well my remarks may not

[3:56:54] Trustee Luckham: completely fall within all the previous conversations and i think trustee elliott is

[3:56:59] Trustee Luckham: hinting about that as well is um administer you know you've changed the wording here from

[3:57:07] Trustee Luckham: administrative um fairness complaints to handling of complaints and i think and uh perhaps stefan

[3:57:16] Trustee Luckham: sermak through the chair you could advise me administrative complaints i think has a

[3:57:22] Trustee Luckham: a different flavor generally not associated specifically with bylaws but certainly there's

[3:57:32] Trustee Luckham: crossover there but the section where you kind of whoever did the editing here I can't scroll that

[3:57:41] Trustee Luckham: one but whoever did the editing created a bunch of stuff about handling the complaints at the

[3:57:46] Trustee Luckham: beginning and then the administrative fairness piece is pretty much left alone particularly

[3:57:51] Trustee Luckham: particularly when it comes to complaints about staff and trustees.

[3:57:57] Trustee Luckham: And I see that's not bylaw related, but it's certainly an avenue of complaint

[3:58:04] Trustee Luckham: and wouldn't want to lose the notion of administrative fairness

[3:58:09] Trustee Luckham: because that is quite broadly understood throughout government

[3:58:13] Trustee Luckham: as being different than bylaw enforcement.

[3:58:16] Trustee Luckham: And so I would appreciate any remarks on that.

[3:58:19] Trustee Luckham: Maybe I missed something here about this merging together, or maybe I'm just picking up other threads from somewhere else, but the administrative fairness complaint and code of conduct and behavior and all that sort of stuff all kind of dovetails together into that section, more so than bylaw enforcement or offending the OCP or bylaws, so to speak.

[3:58:47] Voice 12: Sure. Through the chair?

[3:58:48] Voice 12: Thank you. What I see before us, you know, right at the beginning, as I said, is this policy needs

[3:58:55] Voice 12: the most polishing. We haven't had a chance to have our Director of Legislative and Information

[3:59:02] Voice 12: Services go through this. So I believe that he'll have a better go through. So I think this might

[3:59:08] Voice 12: happen at a different rate, if it's the intent. The reason it's included here is because we've

[3:59:14] Voice 12: you know, recognize that the issues with bylaw enforcement that were being brought up weren't

[3:59:20] Voice 12: just exclusive to the process. It was sometimes to the person, a perception of attitude or something

[3:59:26] Voice 12: along those lines. And so this was an attempt to capture the complaints process in a plain

[3:59:34] Voice 12: language way, as per the ombudsperson's recommendations, so that if there is a complaint

[3:59:40] Voice 12: about staff it doesn't just say oh it's administrative fairness because some people who

[3:59:45] Voice 12: you know like you said local government gets that what that means but the general public don't and

[3:59:50] Voice 12: so just making a complaint is easy for people to understand we captured a more robust uh

[3:59:55] Voice 12: sort of scope of information in there as per the recommendations and sort of

[4:00:00] Voice 12: outline the roles and responsibilities

[4:00:01] Voice 12: and the guiding principles.

[4:00:03] Voice 12: I don't believe we lost anything

[4:00:05] Voice 12: in regards to the administrative fairness components of it.

[4:00:08] Voice 12: They're just sort of absorbed in general, but I do agree.

[4:00:11] Voice 12: I think this needs a more thorough going through

[4:00:14] Voice 12: and I haven't had the chance

[4:00:16] Voice 12: for the fellow senior management team to have a go at that.

[4:00:18] Voice 12: I tried to acknowledge it right off the get-go.

[4:00:23] Trustee Luckham: So if I might follow up, Chair.

[4:00:25] Voice 6: Please.

[4:00:27] Trustee Luckham: So thank you for that.

[4:00:28] Trustee Luckham: and thank you for acknowledging that it's not quite ready because indeed that

[4:00:33] Trustee Luckham: the last two-thirds of the document does require significant work and updating

[4:00:40] Trustee Luckham: with some of the thoughts that have come up out of administrative fairness

[4:00:45] Trustee Luckham: complaints so you know I would suggest chair that if this document as RPM

[4:00:53] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to stop using acronyms, Stephon indicated, perhaps this should be deferred

[4:01:04] Trustee Luckham: given the depth of the conversation we've had on the previous document, if this one

[4:01:09] Trustee Luckham: needs a lot more work, does not really want to be affected with our time, spending a lot

[4:01:16] Trustee Luckham: of time on this may not be in our best interest.

[4:01:20] Trustee Patrick: Yeah.

[4:01:22] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Patrick?

[4:01:23] Trustee Patrick: No, I absolutely agree.

[4:01:24] Trustee Patrick: it's sort of parallel but the plain language again is back being really important because

[4:01:28] Trustee Patrick: i you know i hear from people that said well i talked to the cao i talked to him twice and i

[4:01:33] Trustee Patrick: never heard anything back again says well if you're not satisfied it gets raised to the executive

[4:01:38] Trustee Patrick: committee well how does that happen do you you know it's like there's no information in there

[4:01:42] Trustee Patrick: as to if you're the person making the complaint how does this process come through and i think

[4:01:48] Trustee Patrick: that's it's got to have that lens to it and i think it's it's it is a separate piece

[4:01:53] Trustee Patrick: So

[4:01:59] Voice 9: my sense is that we want to perhaps defer this document to a future RPC meeting and not necessarily run it up to change trust counsel. Is that my, is that the correct interpretation? Okay. Well, I think that's, I think that's probably wise. Just wanted to sort of keep track. So we are at 2.03. So we have an hour left. But yeah.

[4:02:27] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, so I did want to move the motion, and if we don't think it's necessary, don't have to vote on

[4:02:34] Trustee Elliott: it, but that's great.

[4:02:38] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, that's it. Thank you. Thank you, Rob.

[4:02:42] Voice 9: All right, do you want to give us

[4:02:44] Voice 9: your motion?

[4:02:44] Trustee Elliott: Oh, so I move the Regional Planning Committee request staff to work through the

[4:02:48] Trustee Elliott: self-assessment checklist of the ombudsperson's complaints guide to determine if recommended

[4:02:53] Trustee Elliott: components are included in the draft policy 7.1.2 and to identify gaps and opportunities

[4:02:59] Trustee Elliott: for future work for the bylaw enforcement compliance review project very

[4:03:04] Voice 9: good and so

[4:03:06] Voice 9: yeah do we have a seconder a

[4:03:07] Voice 3: seconder i

[4:03:09] Voice 9: see a couple of different things i see trustee campbell's

[4:03:12] Voice 9: name is my the the hand that i see up i don't know if that's i

[4:03:16] Voice 7: was just i was just getting ready to

[4:03:18] Voice 7: second it okay

[4:03:19] Voice 9: it is second excellent do we have any discussion on the motion

[4:03:24] Voice 9: all right seeing none let's call the vote uh all in favor please raise your hands

[4:03:35] Voice 9: very good hopefully staff have had a chance uh please lower your hands

[4:03:39] Voice 9: and if do we have any opposed all right seeing none i think that is carried excellent and thank

[4:03:51] Voice 9: you trustee elliott for for championing that component i think that's really good

[4:03:59] Voice 9: Okay. So we do still have a bunch of, pardon me, go ahead, Tressielia.

[4:04:08] Trustee Elliott: No, I was just going to go back to what are we sending to Trust Council? Is anything ready to go?

[4:04:12] Trustee Elliott: That's

[4:04:13] Voice 9: exactly where I'm going. So I think we need to start working through these recommendations on page 50. And Director Cermak, you were saying that, so just looking at that first, or I suppose looking at the best practices manual is the one we've sort of talked through most recently.

[4:04:39] Voice 9: Secondly, I know I see in this recommendation that the referral to the ombudsperson's office for comment in September is part of there.

[4:04:51] Voice 9: And I know you mentioned that they were standing by to do that.

[4:04:54] Voice 9: Is that comment something we would expect to see back before Trust Council?

[4:04:58] Voice 9: That seems like a very quick turnaround, but it's possible if they're ready.

[4:05:03] Voice 12: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[4:05:04] Voice 12: Yeah, I don't know.

[4:05:05] Voice 12: As I said, they're standing by.

[4:05:06] Voice 12: I don't know if they'll be able to produce a written comment on time, certainly I'm confident

[4:05:13] Voice 12: that they'll be able to.

[4:05:13] Voice 12: They were quite quick to respond in the first time once they got the ball rolling.

[4:05:17] Voice 12: So they know their stuff, but I don't know if they'll be able to get a written product

[4:05:24] Voice 12: to trust council.

[4:05:25] Voice 12: So I think the idea there was that you're ready for the November regional planning committee

[4:05:30] Voice 12: meeting so they can respond quickly so that staff can remember, et cetera, et cetera.

[4:05:35] Voice 12: So I think that's the intent to have that early movement or quick movement.

[4:05:40] Voice 9: Very good. All right. Well, let's let's maybe work through the recommendations then.

[4:05:43] Voice 9: So I think we do want to send these things up to trust counsel so they get to see it.

[4:05:49] Voice 9: My my feeling is that we're sending this a little bit more for information because we still have a lot more discussion that I think we want to have on this.

[4:05:56] Voice 9: Is that correct? And that's the feeling of the committee by and large.

[4:06:04] Voice 9: Maybe if you disagree, Trustee Baldwin.

[4:06:12] Voice 3: I agree, but I'm going to question whether we should send it to the ombudsperson, given

[4:06:19] Voice 3: that we have proposed quite a lot of work, I think.

[4:06:26] Voice 3: What do you think about that, Trustee Cermak, or sorry, Director Cermak?

[4:06:33] Voice 12: I got promoted.

[4:06:35] Voice 12: Yay.

[4:06:37] Voice 12: Let's see.

[4:06:38] Voice 12: Okay, so, you know, I'm tracking your comments, and honestly, what I have for Policy 551, the Trust Council's policy, all I really have right now is discussion about limiting enforcement due to resources.

[4:06:52] Voice 12: And then we talked about the LTC template, changing the investigate, I've got from 24 hours to a question mark.

[4:07:00] Voice 12: And those are the key things.

[4:07:02] Voice 12: I had a lot of discussion about a lot of things, but really I don't see a lot of proposed amendments

[4:07:07] Voice 12: yet in either the policy 551 or the LTC policy template. In my mind you have discussed best

[4:07:14] Voice 12: practices and made a resolution that we change it to plain language and we bring it back.

[4:07:19] Voice 12: So I don't know how much more you want to talk about that. In my mind you've also

[4:07:23] Voice 12: just directed policy 712. So all you have left from my perspective is the key policy,

[4:07:29] Voice 12: Council policy and that the model template that goes with it and as I repeat that only

[4:07:35] Voice 12: couple things that have been captured is this limiting how to direct by law enforcement

[4:07:41] Voice 12: due to limited resources and or the time period that the standard time I believe that you

[4:07:47] Voice 12: trustee Boland brought up changing it from a 24 hours recommendation to making it a longer

[4:07:53] Voice 12: longer period and then allowing LTCs to scale it back if they wish or increase it or if

[4:07:58] Voice 12: they wish.

[4:08:00] Voice 3: So

[4:08:00] Voice 12: I don't see a lot of changes.

[4:08:02] Voice 3: What about the overhaul of the manual and the recommendation that we voted on from

[4:08:09] Voice 3: Trustee Elliott?

[4:08:10] Voice 3: Do you think...

[4:08:13] Voice 12: That's captured in the resolutions through the chair that the RPC requests staff to amend

[4:08:17] Voice 12: the best practices manual to create a plain language version.

[4:08:20] Voice 12: That resolution will travel to Trust Council.

[4:08:23] Voice 12: council they'll see it and hopefully they'll agree with it but

[4:08:26] Voice 3: i'm thinking about the ombudsperson

[4:08:29] Voice 3: i'm just thinking

[4:08:30] Voice 3: about a disconnect between what they recommend and what make them out of

[4:08:33] Voice 3: trust council anyway i'm just asking for an opinion well

[4:08:42] Voice 12: i think that if i may mr chair the

[4:08:44] Voice 12: what you had before you does gel well with their recommendations quite well staff's done their

[4:08:50] Voice 12: best attempt to do so i think the ombudsperson's office will correct us if we're wrong um and i

[4:08:56] Voice 12: And I think Trust Council will see that and understand that to some degree.

[4:09:00] Voice 12: What Trust Council wishes to do with it after the fact, are you suggesting maybe Trust Council or pardon me, the ombudsperson's review after Trust Council has a look at it?

[4:09:10] Voice 3: I just think we're in a kind of a compressed timeline where things will potentially conflict and it would be hard to kind of pull it all back together and make sense of it.

[4:09:23] Voice 3: yeah

[4:09:25] Voice 9: i would be worried a little bit about parallel review so if we're if we are uh you

[4:09:31] Voice 9: know extensively reworking uh that you know the best practices manual um that new version would

[4:09:40] Voice 9: presumably we want to send that to the ombudsperson's office as well and and is it going

[4:09:45] Voice 9: to compromise our process if we've got you know we we're working on redrafting the document and

[4:09:51] Voice 9: they're they're reviewing an old version is it better to just wait until we've reviewed the

[4:09:56] Voice 9: document and then send it to them once we're further ahead i think is that sort of what

[4:10:01] Voice 9: you're talking about uh trustee boland

[4:10:03] Voice 3: yeah i think i would prefer to wait until after trust

[4:10:06] Voice 3: council before we send anything to the ombuds person um i don't see there's a need to rush

[4:10:13] Voice 3: necessarily and i think a lot of people at trust council you know there were you know uh you know

[4:10:20] Voice 3: Earlier on, Trustee Patrick was saying, where do we get a review from the complaints, the

[4:10:27] Voice 3: people who make complaints, the people who have complained about, I think, rushing to

[4:10:32] Voice 3: the ombudsperson, or rushing, sorry, I don't mean to overstate the case, but I think that

[4:10:38] Voice 3: could wait until we're in a more, like, we're all more comfortable and confident with the

[4:10:45] Voice 3: content.

[4:10:46] Voice 9: Yeah, I think that's, yeah, I think that's good.

[4:10:49] Voice 9: trustee patrick well

[4:10:51] Trustee Patrick: i think there's also a process that we have a report for the ombudsman

[4:10:54] Trustee Patrick: that has multiple suggestions and there is no staff report that complements that and says there

[4:10:59] Trustee Patrick: were you know these suggestions suggestion one here's what we did suggestion two here's what we

[4:11:05] Trustee Patrick: did um and if we go back to the ombudsman and they review something and then that goes back to trust

[4:11:10] Trustee Patrick: council we're gonna have two reports of ombudsman it was like was this the original one was this

[4:11:13] Trustee Patrick: interpret it. I see kind of a mess brewing that we should have a complete answer. We should be

[4:11:20] Trustee Patrick: satisfied that the suggestions from the ombudsman report have been addressed before we send it back

[4:11:27] Trustee Patrick: to the ombudsman for more comments.

[4:11:29] Voice 9: Yeah, I would agree with that. I think I'd be hesitant to send

[4:11:32] Voice 9: anything to them before we've concluded our review of it. All right. Well, let's just sort

[4:11:41] Voice 9: of getting back to some of these recommendations then um the with the the draft uh trust council

[4:11:51] Voice 9: bylaw compliance and enforcement policy um which is 5.5.1 uh are we happy to we i think we need to

[4:12:01] Voice 9: we we've we've made we've had some discussion on this already but we do wish to send it broadly

[4:12:07] Voice 9: to trust council with with our with notes of our our observations so far

[4:12:16] Voice 9: which I think that director Cermak has been tracking to some degree do we still

[4:12:24] Voice 9: wish to make that trustee Graham yeah

[4:12:27] Voice 11: thank you chair I think that that third

[4:12:29] Voice 11: recommendation if we just drop the referral to the ombudsperson's office

[4:12:33] Voice 11: us that that uh that motion stands yeah

[4:12:36] Voice 9: yeah absolutely um are there any other bits on any

[4:12:40] Voice 9: of these motions that people want to sort of highlight or or or make sure are captured

[4:12:46] Voice 9: trustee bolland uh

[4:12:50] Voice 3: yeah the first three stand with the amendment proposed by trustee graham

[4:12:54] Voice 3: the fourth one um are we making any further amendments or is it just the amended project

[4:13:04] Voice 3: Charter as we have seen at this meeting.

[4:13:08] Voice 9: Well I was going to invite Director

[4:13:10] Voice 9: Cermak to perhaps speak to the projected Charter or whichever staff because we

[4:13:16] Voice 9: have not discussed that yet we've talked about a lot about the various documents

[4:13:19] Voice 9: but I don't think we've talked about the project charter yet so. Yeah

[4:13:23] Voice 3: I think the

[4:13:24] Voice 3: first three are fine with the comments and resolutions that were made and the

[4:13:29] Voice 3: And of course, one might need a less stress consideration.

[4:13:33] Voice 3: Thank you.

[4:13:33] Voice 9: Well, let's maybe get, if staff want to give us sort of an introduction to that project

[4:13:39] Voice 9: charter, I know we've all, I would hope we've looked at it, but if they want to make any

[4:13:45] Voice 9: other comments or just sort of review that.

[4:13:49] Voice 12: I'll start, Mr. Chair.

[4:13:50] Voice 5: Yeah.

[4:13:51] Voice 12: And that is that we, staff have proposed no further changes to the project charter.

[4:13:56] Voice 12: The RPC did already resolve to amend the project charter.

[4:14:00] Voice 12: and that is included in there, I believe, if you scroll down a little bit more, Rob,

[4:14:05] Voice 12: so the bottom left of deliverables, yeah, you can see the amendment there, and if you recall,

[4:14:09] Voice 12: that was to create the LTC, the Local Trust Committee template for policy, and you have

[4:14:17] Voice 12: that, you've discussed it today, and what we've heard is that when we present this to Trust

[4:14:22] Voice 12: Council, that we make it clear that distinguishes what the differences between the Trust Council

[4:14:27] Voice 12: council policy and the LTC policy, what are the nuances between the two and how to distinguish

[4:14:32] Voice 12: them better. You asked us to communicate that better. At least that's what my notes say.

[4:14:35] Voice 12: And so we can do that. Other than that, we have no further recommended changes. I think

[4:14:41] Voice 12: resolutions or recommendations such as making it the language easier to understand, more readability,

[4:14:47] Voice 12: I don't think that needs a resolution or a project charter amendment in my mind. It's just

[4:14:52] Voice 12: this is how we do the business. So that's my recommendation. No further recommendation,

[4:15:00] Voice 12: unless of course, but this is your project. You ask Trust Council what you would like to do with

[4:15:04] Voice 12: it. So I'm all ears. I trust you, Patrick. I know you're

[4:15:08] Voice 9: planning to dip out, but we'd love to hear

[4:15:11] Voice 9: from you.

[4:15:12] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I'm about to fall asleep here. This is not our project. This is Trust Council's

[4:15:17] Trustee Patrick: project. So let's be very clear. And this is their project charter. And I think the last RPC meeting

[4:15:23] Trustee Patrick: amendments were made to it without trust counsel's authorization so this is a correction of that as

[4:15:28] Trustee Patrick: far as my understanding yes

[4:15:37] Voice 9: absolutely right and i'm seeing also from from from trustee patrick

[4:15:44] Voice 9: the uh this discuss these notes on on ltc's submitting business cases and and uh

[4:15:51] Voice 9: well

[4:15:52] Trustee Patrick: that's your next item of business yeah yeah

[4:15:55] Voice 9: no i've yeah um okay

[4:15:59] Voice 9: Okay. Well, should we make, should we make some moves on some, some recommendations here?

[4:16:07] Voice 9: Trustee Boland?

[4:16:11] Voice 3: Yeah. I mean, I think now we move, um, that's the four recommendations go ahead

[4:16:17] Voice 3: with the resolution and recommendations, uh, that were captured. The

[4:16:24] Voice 3: fourth one is to go

[4:16:27] Voice 3: to trust council with this amended project charter. So, um, will we do them one by one?

[4:16:34] Voice 9: yeah i think we do them we do that we go through the things so

[4:16:38] Voice 3: i'll do the first one then yeah

[4:16:40] Voice 9: thank you

[4:16:41] Voice 3: uh i moved that the regional planning commission review and provide direction

[4:16:46] Voice 3: on the draft trust council bylaw compliance and enforcement policy policy 551 to trust council

[4:16:54] Voice 3: with the um considerations from the regional planning committee of september the fourth

[4:17:01] Voice 3: Mr.

[4:17:05] Voice 9: Croker, do you have that?

[4:17:07] Voice 9: Do you need a moment?

[4:17:12] Voice 9: Fantastic.

[4:17:15] Voice 9: With that being...

[4:17:16] Voice 3: Considerations is a nice, weaselly word

[4:17:19] Voice 3: that should cover everything you shouldn't do.

[4:17:24] Voice 9: So I'm seeing that being in place.

[4:17:27] Voice 9: Director Cermak, do you wish to speak

[4:17:29] Voice 8: before we get a seconder?

[4:17:30] Voice 12: I do, Mr. Chair,

[4:17:32] Voice 12: before we start debating the motion.

[4:17:34] Voice 12: Thank you, Trustee Bolingberg.

[4:17:35] Voice 12: It's always the hard one to take.

[4:17:37] Voice 12: I recognize that in the staff report

[4:17:39] Voice 12: that the recommendations at the top of the page aren't super helpful in terms

[4:17:45] Voice 12: of making this resolution and so what I did is I put at the end of the staff

[4:17:49] Voice 12: report in the recommendation so that's page 52 of your agenda perhaps this is

[4:17:53] Voice 12: just more my style of working it's a little easier and clearer and that is

[4:17:58] Voice 12: we go is so you'll see number one that the regional planning community

[4:18:03] Voice 12: recommend the following changes so we're clear about what you're recommending

[4:18:07] Voice 12: because capturing the discussion I don't know and perhaps Mr. Croker can correct

[4:18:12] Voice 12: me that he's captured the the essence of your discussions and we're going to get

[4:18:15] Voice 12: those key points I don't see the minutes that he's generating I only have my

[4:18:19] Voice 12: personal notes and as I said my personal notes only right now reflect for policy

[4:18:24] Voice 12: 551 that by law enforcement may or to amend section 3.2

[4:18:30] Voice 5: to limit enforcement

[4:18:32] Voice 12: due to resources or lack of resources so if you take the resolution as drafted

[4:18:38] Voice 12: there that the RPC recommend the following changes to policy 551 and then

[4:18:43] Voice 12: we can list a few of them I just would hate to lose what you're what you would

[4:18:48] Voice 12: like to see changed so I have that one which is amend section 3.2 is are there

[4:18:53] Voice 12: others this is the time to capture those thoughts if you've been tracking them

[4:18:56] Voice 12: yourself so that's my recommendation that's the other one's been nebulous and

[4:19:00] Voice 12: and things could get lost,

[4:19:01] Voice 12: and I'm sure you don't want me to lose things

[4:19:04] Voice 12: or us to lose things.

[4:19:05] Voice 3: Is this the policy that had the notification period

[4:19:09] Voice 3: and I've lost track, five point,

[4:19:12] Voice 3: I think the inspection notification,

[4:19:18] Voice 3: or is it the second one?

[4:19:20] Voice 3: I think it's the second one.

[4:19:21] Voice 3: Okay.

[4:19:22] Voice 3: It

[4:19:22] Voice 12: is, let me just see.

[4:19:24] Voice 12: I might need some help on that.

[4:19:31] Voice 12: I think it was the LT,

[4:19:35] Voice 12: I think it was in the model template.

[4:19:36] Voice 12: template yes actually I know that now it was um it was in the model template the LTC model template

[4:19:42] Voice 12: oh I saw Warren Dingman show up and disappear so that would be that the RPC recommend the following

[4:19:51] Voice 12: changes to let me get the right word up there to well I would like to call it the LTC model

[4:20:04] Voice 12: template but I'm getting staged right here trying to find the right words now I know how you guys

[4:20:08] Voice 12: feel. Do you have a trustee? I believe

[4:20:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: what Trustee Boland originally suggested is that

[4:20:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Trust Council set out a policy having inspections at a a week or one two-week period of time.

[4:20:25] Voice 3: Yeah with the notification period be at least two weeks. However

[4:20:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that that way it is captured

[4:20:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: in local trust council compliance

[4:20:37] Voice 3: and enforcement policies?

[4:20:39] Voice 3: My idea is that the model template at the highest level

[4:20:44] Voice 3: would set at the maximum period

[4:20:46] Voice 3: and that people can reduce that period if they want to.

[4:20:50] Voice 3: I think on to Turner, I can't remember what the period was.

[4:20:53] Voice 3: Maybe, Warren, you can remember what Lee requested.

[4:20:57] Voice 3: It was at least two weeks.

[4:20:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Is it two weeks?

[4:20:59] Voice 3: Two weeks.

[4:20:59] Voice 3: Let's go with two weeks.

[4:21:01] Voice 3: Yeah.

[4:21:05] Voice 3: Per to Turner.

[4:21:07] Voice 3: Yeah,

[4:21:08] Voice 9: Rob, how are you keeping up?

[4:21:17] Voice 12: So, Rob.

[4:21:19] Voice 17: Yeah, please, Director.

[4:21:21] Voice 17: The Regional

[4:21:22] Voice 12: Planning League recommend the following changes, and it's not to the policy we're talking about right now to capture Trustee Boland.

[4:21:28] Voice 12: It is the LTC by-law compliance enforcement policy template.

[4:21:34] Voice 12: The Local Trust Committee by-law compliance and enforcement policy template.

[4:21:40] Voice 12: Is

[4:21:43] Voice 3: it possible, Stephan, that we can document changes without saying where they

[4:21:50] Voice 3: have to be applied? Because they should be applied throughout if they occur more than once, but at

[4:21:56] Voice 3: least then we don't have to painfully go through every section. We just say

[4:22:01] Voice 3: what the changes are

[4:22:02] Voice 3: that we want.

[4:22:04] Voice 12: I think that's a fair assessment, Trustee Boland. I have a way to like to do

[4:22:07] Voice 12: something precision but if you would just like to say amend the investigation or the notification

[4:22:14] Voice 12: period to two weeks and then we can make staff can make those changes i just like precision sometimes

[4:22:18] Voice 12: i get caught up in it yeah

[4:22:21] Voice 3: yeah and then the other one was to give us resources do you want to go

[4:22:36] Voice 3: ahead with that stephan that was when we brought up i

[4:22:39] Voice 12: think i i brought up but warren was talking

[4:22:41] Voice 12: about it to amend the policies in regards to and limit it that discretion

[4:22:47] Voice 12: may be used for by law enforcement management and and I guess the director

[4:22:51] Voice 12: of planning services in cases of limited resources within

[4:22:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the Trust Council

[4:22:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policies not within this template within yeah that's right so it with four

[4:23:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: possible

[4:23:02] Voice 3: templates we're just going to say to the draft by law compliance and

[4:23:06] Voice 3: enforcement i don't know materials okay so

[4:23:12] Voice 12: if i may make one more recommendation while i'm

[4:23:14] Voice 12: sort of merging the floors here that are so rob i hate to bug you but i'm thinking that the regional

[4:23:20] Voice 12: planning committee recommend the following changes and just to kill the rest that's it and then go abc

[4:23:27] Voice 12: and then we'll make the changes accordingly yeah

[4:23:30] Voice 3: okay great

[4:23:31] Voice 12: thank you rob yeah

[4:23:33] Voice 3: Yeah.

[4:23:36] Voice 5: And

[4:23:40] Voice 12: you might need Warren's language there for B.

[4:23:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Two, that the manager of a compliance firm

[4:23:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: would have the discretion to open files

[4:24:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: based on the limited resources

[4:24:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that non-stress bylaw enforcement has

[4:24:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or some variation of that that references limited resources

[4:24:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: as a reason to not, you know, either delay or not open files, right?

[4:24:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: If we just don't have the staff time, we just don't have the staff time.

[4:24:26] Voice 3: Okay.

[4:24:27] Voice 3: What about to manage files based on resource?

[4:24:32] Voice 3: Well,

[4:24:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: this policy was for, this specific reference was about opening files.

[4:24:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: What discretion does staff or the manager have to open files?

[4:24:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And one of the things I believe should be in there is, you know, if there's limited resources to even do the work, certain files, either the opening should be delayed or not opened at all.

[4:24:54] Voice 3: Okay. Okay.

[4:25:01] Voice 3: Stephen, should we then just reference the resolutions that were passed?

[4:25:09] Voice 3: Well,

[4:25:09] Voice 12: they were already passed, so that's fine.

[4:25:11] Voice 12: Yeah,

[4:25:12] Voice 3: but reference them as in recommend following changes.

[4:25:17] Voice 3: you know recommend to trust counsel following changes it's also those resolutions besides the

[4:25:22] Voice 3: changes that are recommended if

[4:25:27] Voice 12: i understand you correctly those resolutions will travel

[4:25:29] Voice 12: to trust counsel regardless as a package so i don't think that's necessary

[4:25:32] Voice 3: so we're not going

[4:25:33] Voice 3: to reference those recommendations at the start at all i'm thinking about removing the timeline

[4:25:39] Voice 3: to go to the ombuds person and we don't need to talk about that at all do we no

[4:25:45] Voice 12: just don't make

[4:25:45] Voice 12: the resolution okay

[4:25:47] Voice 3: okay okay okay fair enough and if i

[4:25:52] Voice 12: may mr chair i hate to jump into uh i

[4:25:56] Voice 12: just want to confirm that you know with this resolution above on b um management has that

[4:26:02] Voice 12: discretion but the local trust committee policy also has uh that ltcs may adopt discretionary

[4:26:10] Voice 12: enforcement policies based on their limited resources available to resolve the matter so

[4:26:16] Voice 12: the ltc that there's your it's it's your circle and just always remind you that the ltcs are in

[4:26:21] Voice 12: fact in charge especially via this policy mechanism to direct enforcement it's not meant to be a work

[4:26:27] Voice 12: around it by any means yeah

[4:26:29] Voice 9: yeah but and

[4:26:31] Voice 9: that's that's captured by default okay

[4:26:35] Voice 3: but we don't

[4:26:36] Voice 3: necessarily are we consulted before a file is opened with about the kind of more generic

[4:26:43] Voice 3: general issue around resources etc i in my limited experience i don't think that happens

[4:26:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: do you want me to comment stephan please

[4:26:56] Voice 3: yeah please

[4:26:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: let's say they through the chair

[4:26:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the current process is um we receive a file a complaint sorry and i have to go through that

[4:27:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: complaint and see if it is relevant at all to islands trust and a local trust committee's bylaw

[4:27:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so one if it's not i i can't there's certain things we absolutely can't investigate

[4:27:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so that's the first part of the screening process uh it can't be anonymous um and you know it can't

[4:27:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: be so vague that i i don't know what they're talking about

[4:27:33] Voice 3: no no one

[4:27:35] Voice 3: i understand that what

[4:27:36] Voice 3: What I'm questioning is that the LPC has the power, let's say,

[4:27:44] Voice 3: it's at their discretion also to, based on limited resources,

[4:27:50] Voice 3: not open a file.

[4:27:52] Voice 3: But I'm not sure where that's accepted for them.

[4:27:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So the current policy is that trustees and local trust committees

[4:27:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: do not get involved in investigations.

[4:28:01] Voice 3: Okay.

[4:28:02] Voice 3: And

[4:28:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: my interpretation is that, so right now it's up to staff.

[4:28:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to okay we get the complaint and do we initiate a file being open based on the complaint

[4:28:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and i know that it may require more interpretation or clarify clarification of the language with

[4:28:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: states that you know local trust means they're not involved in investigations and for me that means

[4:28:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: they don't have the authority to say it's not going to be investigated because one trust

[4:28:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: council has said no staff will have the discretion to open up or they have the authority to open up

[4:28:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: these files based on the criteria that it's set out in trust council policies and also within the

[4:28:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: almonds version recommendation it says trustees or counselors and local counselors or local trust

[4:28:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: committees do not get involved in the day-to-day operations of bylaw enforcement so that's why i

[4:28:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: interpret the the language the way it is and the local trust committee policy is about okay a file

[4:28:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: has been opened we do have a contravention and then the local trust committee decides whether

[4:29:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or not there's going to be enforcement and currently we have a model with main island and

[4:29:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: with denman where the local trust committee is presented with here's a report on the files with

[4:29:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: completed investigations and then the local trust committee exercises discretion whether or not to

[4:29:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: have enforcement and on saturn because you don't have a bend by law really they all have to go

[4:29:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to the local trust committee because the only way for us to do any type of enforcement is through

[4:29:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: legal action. So that's why

[4:29:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: let's say

[4:29:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Laskiti and Saturna must get

[4:29:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that report first before any action

[4:29:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: can even take place.

[4:29:40] Voice 3: Okay, that's fine. I must

[4:29:41] Voice 3: understand what you're saying. So that's fine.

[4:29:44] Voice 3: Let's carry on then. Thank you.

[4:29:48] Voice 9: Trustee Graham.

[4:29:50] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Warren.

[4:29:52] Voice 11: So just circling back to the

[4:29:54] Voice 11: original reason for this

[4:29:56] Voice 11: discussion, this

[4:29:57] Voice 11: this

[4:29:57] Voice 11: um

[4:30:00] Voice 11: The island that was flooded with complaints, so what you're saying is regardless of what the local trust committee compliance and enforcement policies is, you have to open a file on each and every one of those?

[4:30:13] Voice 11: You don't have the discretion based on your available person hours to say, oh, we've been flooded.

[4:30:22] Voice 11: We can't open files on all of these.

[4:30:26] Voice 11: Is that, did I misunderstand that?

[4:30:27] Voice 11: At

[4:30:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: this time, without any of the proposed amendments in place, I'm pretty much stuck with opening the files and investigating them.

[4:30:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: If we adopt some of the proposed policies, then I'm in a better position to say, okay, one, I can't open up 50 files for an island with a population of, say, less than 200 people at this time.

[4:30:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and i have nothing to say okay any policy regarding vexatious frivolous or repeat

[4:31:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: complaints so that's another stumbling block uh you know i and i did consider when these files

[4:31:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: came in i said okay what can i do here can i actually say no and i went through all the

[4:31:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policies and i said i don't really have the authority to say no i just don't have the

[4:31:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: grounds and that's one reason why some of these proposed changes are very important you're going

[4:31:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to give staff the ability to say okay wait a minute no we can we can't do this and in the future they

[4:31:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: may want to consider policy about you know just volume but saying we have limited resources may

[4:31:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: handle volume complaints because from time to time they do happen someone submits 10 20 30 plus

[4:31:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: less complaints this is the worst case scenario i don't believe this has happened before where

[4:31:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: such a large volume came in at one time for such a island with a small population and so everything's

[4:31:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: kind of timely now that we can get some more discretionary policies so that you know we can

[4:32:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: limit the impact the next time thank

[4:32:05] Voice 11: you for that clarification all

[4:32:10] Voice 9: right um yeah no i think that's

[4:32:13] Voice 9: i think that's really good i think getting that vexatious uh complainant stuff in place is going

[4:32:18] Voice 9: be very important as you say warren um all right do we have any other amendments or or changes that

[4:32:25] Voice 9: we want to add to this specific motion no

[4:32:31] Trustee Elliott: i don't like the wording here to open files based on the

[4:32:35] Trustee Elliott: limited resources that island stress by law enforcement has this is just like terrible

[4:32:39] Trustee Elliott: english and not it's like has the discretion to um open files and launch an investigation

[4:32:54] Trustee Elliott: based on the available resources i

[4:32:58] Voice 9: think that's much better yeah that also was bothering me so

[4:33:01] Voice 9: the resources may be limited but if we say available resources it's broader

[4:33:06] Voice 9: or it has a broader application yeah i think that looks good does that look better to you toby

[4:33:17] Trustee Elliott: yeah does that still capture the intent i think it's i

[4:33:22] Voice 9: feel so uh mr dingman do you

[4:33:25] Voice 9: that

[4:33:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: looks good to me okay

[4:33:30] Voice 9: do we have any other recommendations for this this specific motion

[4:33:34] Voice 9: and i realize we're we're crafting it a little piecemeal but i'll

[4:33:47] Voice 3: move it if you like

[4:33:48] Voice 3: i

[4:33:49] Voice 9: think if everyone else is happy i'm happy for that to happen we are in our last

[4:33:53] Voice 9: 26 minutes so let's uh let's get some stuff through okay

[4:33:59] Voice 3: i move that the regional planning

[4:34:01] Voice 3: committee uh recommend the following changes a amend the notification period to two weeks

[4:34:08] Voice 3: b policy 551 there's a manager of compliance and enforcement has a discretion to open files

[4:34:15] Voice 3: and launch an investigation based on the available resources all right

[4:34:22] Voice 9: do we have a seconder trustee

[4:34:24] Voice 9: graham give rob a moment perfect all right and yeah i would just add or do we have any discussion

[4:34:36] Voice 9: does anybody else want to say anything further to this my only point would be just to remind

[4:34:41] Voice 9: us as a committee and and ask i guess staff um if there's any value in in specifying uh under the

[4:34:50] Voice 9: that first amendment uh the two weeks do we should we should we put it out uh plainly that ltcs have

[4:34:58] Voice 9: the discretion to to amend that timeline or is that i know that's captured sort of by default

[4:35:03] Voice 9: That's what we talked about before, but is there any value in spelling that out directly?

[4:35:09] Voice 9: Trustee Graham?

[4:35:11] Voice 11: I think because it relates to the template, local trust committee template bylaw, I think we're okay because we always have the opportunity to amend those templates at each local trust committee.

[4:35:22] Voice 8: Great.

[4:35:23] Voice 8: That's good.

[4:35:24] Voice 8: I just wanted to double check.

[4:35:25] Voice 8: All right.

[4:35:26] Voice 8: So that being the case, unless anybody else has anything they want to say, I'm going to call the vote.

[4:35:31] Voice 9: So let's say all in favor, please raise your hands.

[4:35:34] Voice 9: and then if you're done lower your hand and all opposed all right i believe that carries

[4:35:56] Voice 9: thank you rob okay so that was broadly the that first recommendation i think still so uh the

[4:36:22] Voice 9: administrative fairness complaints policy we wanted to sort of we've already by resolution

[4:36:30] Voice 9: referred that to our communications uh specialist and staff in general do we want to send it as is

[4:36:39] Voice 9: to trust council or would we like to sit on that for a little bit longer and see what it comes back

[4:36:43] Voice 9: as trustee elliot it

[4:36:47] Trustee Elliott: did need work further work and i believe the director of legislative services

[4:36:52] Trustee Elliott: needed to look at it as well okay so director sermac do we want to refer that for a quick

[4:37:01] Trustee Elliott: review and then to trust council or just do an update to trust council saying

[4:37:08] Trustee Elliott: this is where we're at in the process through

[4:37:12] Voice 12: the chair um i don't need we don't need any further

[4:37:16] Voice 12: resolutions uh i've already referred the item to the director of legislative services it just

[4:37:21] Voice 12: hasn't had time as we're preparing for trust council and all the other meetings that lead up

[4:37:25] Voice 12: to it and so that's fine that's already been done i think it's a wise decision not to refer to trust

[4:37:32] Voice 12: council at this time it's just it's just not a it's just not a in draft ready um it's not there

[4:37:40] Voice 5: status

[4:37:40] Voice 12: not

[4:37:41] Voice 5: there yet and

[4:37:42] Voice 12: you've already given direction to re to for staff to review it in

[4:37:45] Voice 12: comparison to the complaints guide so we have our work as uh in front of us but and as i said before

[4:37:51] Voice 12: i'll capture all these resolutions uh they will be reported to trust council that this is where

[4:37:56] Voice 12: we're at with this project and uh stay tuned they'll hear from us again hopefully in december

[4:38:02] Voice 12: and happy to work on that so i will ask one more thing mr chair while i have the floor i've

[4:38:07] Voice 12: learned to say that from director freighter and that is um that is that uh let's make sure that

[4:38:13] Voice 12: we refer these things to trust council i would prefer resolution as you noticed at the top it

[4:38:18] Voice 12: says and to uh refer to trust council so just that when you're done i'm not asking you to be done yet

[4:38:25] Voice 12: but that the regional planning committee request after forward policy 551 and the best practice

[4:38:34] Voice 12: best practices just to trust council as amended something along those lines sure

[4:38:44] Voice 12: and so we're clear you're ready to forward it yes

[4:38:51] Voice 9: all right so um and i believe uh we have not yet done three i know we've talked around it

[4:39:06] Voice 9: a bunch of different times but now i'm questioning myself we're

[4:39:11] Trustee Elliott: done on that one

[4:39:11] Trustee Elliott: we're

[4:39:12] Voice 9: done on that right because that one's going yeah yeah yeah yeah okay uh all right uh we we do

[4:39:18] Voice 9: wish to forward the the amended project charter i believe so if somebody would like to make that

[4:39:27] Voice 9: motion I'm

[4:39:33] Voice 6: sorry where are we

[4:39:35] Voice 6: we still didn't

[4:39:41] Trustee Elliott: do that so we yes so I move that regional planning

[4:39:45] Trustee Elliott: committee requests that trust council approve the attached amended project charter at their

[4:39:49] Trustee Elliott: September 2024 meeting but we did that but yes you're right we've done that

[4:39:55] Trustee Elliott: yet yeah

[4:39:56] Voice 9: all right

[4:39:58] Voice 9: and then I saw David Graham also had his hand up to to move it he perhaps wishes wishes to second

[4:40:04] Voice 9: Condit? Excellent. Do we have any further discussion? Excellent. All right. I would say

[4:40:14] Voice 9: I'm going to call the vote. All in favor, please raise your hands. Just give that a moment.

[4:40:27] Voice 9: And then, all right. Please lower your hands. Do we have any opposed? All right. I believe that

[4:40:39] Voice 9: also carries. Very good. All right. So I think, oh, and then we want to, sorry, what Director

[4:40:51] Voice 9: Director Cermak was just saying in terms of,

[4:40:53] Voice 9: please go ahead.

[4:40:54] Voice 12: Hey, if you'd like to do it via consensus,

[4:40:57] Voice 12: I'm fine to forward it to trust council.

[4:40:59] Voice 12: If this group agrees by consensus to forward the materials

[4:41:01] Voice 12: as amended, great.

[4:41:03] Voice 12: As long as you're happy and we have clear direction to do so,

[4:41:06] Voice 12: I don't need the resolution.

[4:41:08] Voice 12: It's always nice, but if you want to just giddy up,

[4:41:10] Voice 12: I'm fine.

[4:41:11] Voice 9: Nope, I think by

[4:41:12] Voice 9: consensus is fine.

[4:41:13] Voice 9: If that captures the things, I think that's good.

[4:41:17] Voice 9: All right, jumping back to the broader agenda.

[4:41:26] Voice 9: Um, we wish to talk says 7.3 brings us to our major business cases.

[4:41:39] Voice 9: And I also want to make sure, okay.

[4:41:45] Voice 9: Yeah.

[4:41:45] Voice 9: Make sure we don't lose 7.5 as well.

[4:41:50] Voice 9: Um, all right.

[4:41:51] Voice 9: So we have an RFD here, uh, for the major business cases.

[4:41:56] Voice 9: Now we're still, this is where trustee Patrick was saying.

[4:42:00] Voice 9: So there's nothing we can do until, uh, this is trustee Patrick's words in the, in the

[4:42:05] Voice 9: chat here.

[4:42:05] Voice 9: There's nothing we can do until all LTCs have submitted business cases.

[4:42:09] Voice 9: After that, we should work with staff to map out the remainder of return for resources needed and available resources to schedule the work.

[4:42:16] Voice 9: FBC needs to be informed that this work will be delayed as many business cases are missing.

[4:42:22] Voice 9: And yeah, I mean, I'm broadly, I would agree with that.

[4:42:25] Voice 9: I think there are, we're still waiting on some things, but perhaps Director Cermak can comment on that.

[4:42:34] Voice 19: Again, Mr. Sheriff.

[4:42:35] Voice 19: Here. Smile. Thank you.

[4:42:37] Voice 19: Oh, Robert.

[4:42:39] Voice 19: Unless, Stefan, unless you want to jump in.

[4:42:42] Voice 19: So, yeah, this is a request for decision for RPC to review LTC's business cases for major projects.

[4:42:55] Voice 19: Yes, there's three attached to this RFD, the ones that have been endorsed.

[4:42:59] Voice 19: At the time the agenda was finalized by local trust committees,

[4:43:03] Voice 19: I believe Gambier has subsequently endorsed their business case as well, and there are several still outstanding.

[4:43:10] Voice 19: But just sort of overall, the role of RPCs defined by Trust Council's policies is to review proposed business cases for major projects, for LTC's major projects, based on the health of that local trust committee's OCP and LUB.

[4:43:28] Voice 19: health generally, meaning when was, how old is the, how old is the OCPR LEB? Review any relevant

[4:43:35] Voice 19: criteria in assessing it. And also consider the availability of staff resources. So the three

[4:43:43] Voice 19: business cases that are endorsed to date or at the time of the agenda were North Pender and

[4:43:50] Voice 19: Mains housing projects. These are ongoing projects, so they would be for the second year of the

[4:43:55] Voice 19: the project it's currently started and a new major project for luskete no cplub review and it would

[4:44:03] Voice 19: be a follow-up from their current minor project and luskete is requesting 15 500 so i said there's

[4:44:12] Voice 19: other ones pending so denman and gabriola are pending gambier and salt springs but as of the

[4:44:19] Voice 19: the time the rfd was drafted we're anticipating approximately 215 000 total in terms of requests

[4:44:28] Voice 19: the largest one being salt spring as as usual um also caution about uh staffing as usual that uh

[4:44:38] Voice 19: because of because of the current time if all were approved uh probably couldn't start or

[4:44:45] Voice 19: or continue all projects right on April 1st.

[4:44:48] Voice 19: Some might have to be delayed.

[4:44:49] Voice 19: The start might have to be delayed.

[4:44:51] Voice 19: The recommendation is that RPC forward

[4:44:54] Voice 19: the three business cases to FPC,

[4:44:56] Voice 19: and then there is an alternative to defer consideration

[4:44:59] Voice 19: of these endorsed business cases until they're all ready.

[4:45:03] Voice 19: So that would mean the November RPC meeting.

[4:45:09] Voice 9: Yeah, I think my inclination is,

[4:45:12] Voice 9: I think it is valuable to see

[4:45:15] Voice 9: all the things before us

[4:45:17] Voice 9: before we forward them.

[4:45:21] Voice 9: But I'm open to hearing

[4:45:22] Voice 9: what the rest of the committee feels

[4:45:24] Voice 9: on that front.

[4:45:31] Voice 9: Trustee Graham.

[4:45:33] Voice 11: As a champion of local projects

[4:45:36] Voice 11: for our local trust committees

[4:45:38] Voice 11: and as a member of the financial planning,

[4:45:40] Voice 11: I think it behooves us to forward

[4:45:41] Voice 11: anything that is ready to be considered

[4:45:45] Voice 11: by financial planning as soon as we can.

[4:45:48] Voice 11: Financial planning gets a little overwhelmed

[4:45:49] Voice 11: when everything arrives at the last moment.

[4:45:52] Voice 11: So this is a good idea. The suggested overall budget that Director Kojima has mentioned is a quarter of a percent of our entire budget. Pathetically small in my estimation. We should be spending a lot more on our islands doing this very valuable work. So I would forward these right now. Absolutely.

[4:46:13] Voice 11: Absolutely.

[4:46:14] Voice 9: Perfect. No, and that's, I think that's a really good perspective to have for this, because I don't, I'm not on FBC, so I don't see that, that side of things. Is it, Robert, is it, is it possible for us to, if Gambier's endorsed a project, I suppose we shouldn't add it in at this point. Sorry, Trustee Elliott, if you wish to speak.

[4:46:39] Voice 9: Yeah,

[4:46:40] Trustee Elliott: this is a hard call to make, but I'm going to point to this last paragraph of Robert's report or briefing that there is not anticipated to be sufficient staff to support all the proposed business cases.

[4:46:57] Trustee Elliott: So we're going to have to make some decisions. And that is this body's recommendation. It should not be a financial decision. It should be we decide together which advance do they need to be. And so money isn't the only consideration. It's how do we prioritize staff resources.

[4:47:16] Trustee Elliott: And I think that's part of our responsibility until we have all those business cases before us and can evaluate how those resources should be spent.

[4:47:24] Trustee Elliott: I can't make that decision. So just forwarding these on, I think, is is irresponsible because if all the business cases come through, we can't do them all with the staff.

[4:47:36] Voice 9: Yeah, well, and it would be unfortunate to have that become a first come first serve situation, I think, too, probably.

[4:47:45] Voice 9: All right. Trustee Boland.

[4:47:48] Voice 3: I appreciate the point of view, but on the Financial Planning Committee, I think it would be helpful to forward this, but even with a comment to say this has not been finally approved by Regional Planning, just to say it's for information only.

[4:48:09] Voice 3: because we have struggled to try and get the business cases in, even those that might not

[4:48:16] Voice 3: ultimately go forward, but just to get a sense of what's in preparation. If it was possible,

[4:48:21] Voice 3: I would love to see it go forward for information only, may not be finally approved.

[4:48:29] Voice 3: I don't know if that's possible.

[4:48:32] Voice 9: I think we could probably add a caveat to this

[4:48:35] Voice 9: in that forwarding trustee graham yeah

[4:48:39] Voice 11: thank you chair i do appreciate um trustee elliott's words

[4:48:43] Voice 11: but i i think we should leave the financial um problems to the financial planning committee

[4:48:50] Voice 11: but we're the regional planning committee so we really should be recommending projects that we

[4:48:55] Voice 11: feel should go ahead and if we don't have the staff capacity that that's not our problem and

[4:49:00] Voice 11: that that just means we need more staff uh we need to maybe hire a consultant for some of these

[4:49:04] Voice 11: projects and that's a financial decision that the fpc would have to make so i i mean let's not let's

[4:49:11] Voice 11: not have too many hats on our heads this is regional planning we're all about planning we

[4:49:15] Voice 11: want to we want to help our local trust committees do the planning work that our constituents really

[4:49:19] Voice 11: want to have happen but let's leave the financial you know the hard the hard work of uh how do we

[4:49:26] Voice 11: pay for this to the financial planning that that's all i would suggest yeah

[4:49:31] Voice 9: i mean i think i think i

[4:49:33] Voice 9: I understand where you're coming from in there in that, in that if we believe these are projects

[4:49:37] Voice 9: that are, that deserve to go forward, um, you know, that, that, that financial component

[4:49:44] Voice 9: is, is, is a separate question, but I, I, I do understand where, where in trustee Elliot's

[4:49:50] Voice 9: coming from.

[4:49:50] Voice 9: All right.

[4:49:51] Voice 9: Well, do we want to, uh, we can, I, I, yeah, I'd be inclined to say that it would be important

[4:50:01] Voice 9: to, you know, attach a note saying that we do not yet have all of the business cases

[4:50:06] Voice 9: is before us i'm

[4:50:11] Trustee Elliott: just going to flat out put out the motion to defer until november because

[4:50:14] Trustee Elliott: that's what i believe it is the right thing to do um i know it is up to each planning department

[4:50:21] Trustee Elliott: to organize itself according to you know the corporate planning process and available resources

[4:50:28] Trustee Elliott: they're asking for our input but we can't make that decision until we have all the information

[4:50:34] Trustee Elliott: I can't categorically say every single one of the next business cases are going forward or should go forward if we don't have the staff resources to accomplish them.

[4:50:46] Trustee Elliott: That's not a position I'm prepared to take because communities will then say, well, you promised us an OCP review.

[4:50:53] Trustee Elliott: Why isn't it starting this year?

[4:50:55] Trustee Elliott: That is our responsibility as a committee.

[4:50:58] Trustee Elliott: And so staff resources is ours to allocate. Financial planning is financial planning committees, but we can't make promises that we're going to do something if there isn't simply the staff resources to do it.

[4:51:13] Trustee Elliott: So I

[4:51:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: will move that regional

[4:51:15] Trustee Elliott: planning committee defer consideration of fiscal year 2026 LTC business cases until all proposed business cases have been endorsed by LTCs.

[4:51:23] Voice 9: Wonderful. Do we have a seconder? And how are you doing, Robert?

[4:51:34] Voice 9: i i think i would be happy to second that that is a as a motion if no one else is willing to

[4:51:41] Voice 9: uh do we want to discuss this further uh well let's oh uh trustee bolland

[4:51:58] Voice 3: uh just a question and maybe stephan can answer this what is the timing of the next fpc as opposed

[4:52:05] Voice 3: close to all FPCs, which will come first, because if we miss the FPC in November, then

[4:52:16] Voice 3: they have to go straight to Trust Council, I think.

[4:52:21] Voice 3: But I'm just trying to get my head around the sequence of events.

[4:52:27] Voice 3: How is that going to work?

[4:52:28] Voice 12: I'm looking right now, Trustee Ball.

[4:52:31] Voice 3: Yeah.

[4:52:32] Voice 12: And thank you for that, Marid.

[4:52:33] Voice 12: That's a good question.

[4:52:37] Voice 12: Okay. I have the next FPC confirmed to be October 16th. That's usually the sort of the big

[4:52:44] Voice 12: budget one from a staff perspective, or at least from my perspective. I should speak about everybody

[4:52:48] Voice 12: else. And whoops, I just flew by the regional planning committee is of course, November 8th.

[4:52:58] Voice 12: Then the question is Wednesday. Oh boy. And then the next week is the financial planning committee,

[4:53:03] Voice 12: committee November 13th. So whatever decisions you make on the Friday, November 8th, we'll

[4:53:09] Voice 12: have to travel to the financial planning committee on the Wednesday. So it'll be a late agenda

[4:53:14] Voice 12: item, whatever it is you decide.

[4:53:17] Voice 12: Unless

[4:53:18] Voice 3: we move that date or we have a special meeting, because I feel like we're really

[4:53:23] Voice 3: falling behind on material that we're considering in the RTC at the moment. And we might need

[4:53:30] Voice 3: especially making to catch up but just an opinion that i'm going to put on

[4:53:35] Voice 3: school uh

[4:53:44] Voice 9: so unless we have any more discussion

[4:53:46] Voice 9: on the motion i'm going to say let's call for a vote

[4:53:51] Voice 9: so those in favor of the motion please raise your hands all

[4:54:01] Voice 9: right please lower your hands uh those against

[4:54:04] Voice 9: the motion please raise your hand all right so i believe that is a tie

[4:54:10] Voice 9: i'm actually going to need to be reminded of what happens in a time we

[4:54:17] Voice 9: have those i

[4:54:17] Voice 6: think it fails yeah

[4:54:20] Voice 9: i think you're right yeah that's what i'm recalling but

[4:54:24] Voice 9: okay so that that is defeated at this point so um we still need to make a motion one way or another

[4:54:31] Voice 9: do does anybody else wish to make a motion trustee graham thank

[4:54:38] Voice 11: you chair uh i move that the regional

[4:54:40] Voice 11: planning committee forward to financial planning committee for inclusion in the fiscal year 2026

[4:54:45] Voice 11: budget business cases for major projects for the Maine Housing Project,

[4:54:49] Voice 11: the North Pender Housing Project, and the Luskete OCP slash LUB review.

[4:54:54] Voice 8: Do we have a seconder?

[4:54:58] Voice 3: I second that.

[4:54:59] Voice 3: All right.

[4:55:01] Voice 9: Just make sure that Rob is here.

[4:55:03] Voice 9: Excellent.

[4:55:12] Voice 9: What

[4:55:13] Trustee Elliott: happens if we split vote again and it fails?

[4:55:15] Trustee Elliott: Nothing happens.

[4:55:16] Trustee Elliott: Somebody's going to have to change their mind.

[4:55:19] Voice 9: Someone is going to have to change their mind.

[4:55:20] Voice 9: All right.

[4:55:23] Voice 9: I'm going to call for the vote.

[4:55:25] Voice 9: unless anybody wants to have some discussion trustee graham just

[4:55:30] Voice 11: a quick discussion i know

[4:55:31] Voice 11: there's some concern that we don't have the planning staff to do these but that that is part

[4:55:35] Voice 11: of the the package that's going to financial planning so they will be aware that they're

[4:55:40] Voice 11: looking at a potential budgeted item which won't have the staff support so that you know that's

[4:55:45] Voice 11: that will be part of that discussion that they have all

[4:55:50] Voice 9: right all in favor please raise your

[4:55:56] Voice 9: hands okay and please lower your hands i think trustee boland is yeah away from her phone there

[4:56:15] Voice 9: we go uh all opposed that carries and uh thank you for the discussion and i think it's these are

[4:56:26] Voice 9: tricky things and i appreciate the that we're working through it okay so i believe that takes

[4:56:39] Voice 9: us through to 7.4 and we are at three minutes to three so we are gonna run a

[4:56:49] Voice 9: little bit late I'm always loath to do that because I want to be respectful of

[4:56:53] Voice 9: everybody's time is everyone all right with us carrying on with these things

[4:56:58] Voice 9: does anybody have a hard hard break at three all right well let's let's try and

[4:57:06] Voice 9: move through these things with with some haste or well not haste but but speed we

[4:57:13] Voice 9: We want to be respectful of the stuff.

[4:57:16] Voice 9: All right.

[4:57:17] Voice 9: So we've got a briefing here from Mr. Fertino.

[4:57:25] Voice 12: Mr. Chair, Mr. Fertino has left the building.

[4:57:31] Voice 9: Do we have someone else who can give us an overview of this briefing?

[4:57:35] Voice 9: I'm assuming we've all read it.

[4:57:39] Voice 12: Mr. Chair, that falls to me.

[4:57:42] Voice 12: I'd be happy to talk to it.

[4:57:43] Voice 12: uh but really in the interest of time it is just a briefing to bring you up to speed on actions that

[4:57:49] Voice 12: have happened with the housing strategic action plan there being updates to uh numbers two four

[4:57:54] Voice 12: twenty four and twenty six um and that sort of detailed below uh the things you should know the

[4:58:00] Voice 12: housing needs report uh that we have had a request for proposals put out we're currently in the

[4:58:07] Voice 12: evaluation stage of um proposals coming in so that's moving along we expect to be done by the

[4:58:13] Voice 12: end of the calendar year communication to property owners regarding the sort of selection of housing

[4:58:20] Voice 12: types in the islands that's had some edit at various committees that's gone to the trust

[4:58:26] Voice 12: programs committee it's gone to executive committee it's gone around the bush and right up

[4:58:31] Voice 12: to this morning i had a quick conversation with our communication specialist about making a few

[4:58:35] Voice 12: minor edits so it's really getting some um tweaks those edits are primarily with the with the

[4:58:42] Voice 12: thought that um because it's a broader document being deliberately mailed out as opposed to being

[4:58:48] Voice 12: a rpc document it was sort of watered down is wrong but it's just it was scaled back to make

[4:58:55] Voice 12: it a easier document to understand to read no major edits needed for the rpc it'll be posted

[4:59:00] Voice 12: online and mailed out to all new property owners uh in the islands trust area as part of that

[4:59:05] Voice 12: package um i think really other than that we've been having a lot of engagement with um various

[4:59:12] Voice 12: uh other you know regional districts specifically the crd there's a lot of movement in regards to

[4:59:17] Voice 12: the rural housing program there that staff continue to be engaged on and looking forward to

[4:59:23] Voice 12: and of course probably my favorite thing secretly is the suitable land analysis um there's been a

[4:59:29] Voice 12: lot of work to refine that model and it's being presented to the various ltcs that are doing ocp

[4:59:34] Voice 12: amendment work and it's i remind you that it's just a model incorporating the information that

[4:59:39] Voice 12: we have in-house to help local trust committees in the community discuss uh you know places where

[4:59:46] Voice 12: you know the suitable land analysis you know suggests there may be room for growth and better

[4:59:51] Voice 12: room for protection but there's a lot to unpack in that model and there's no enough not enough

[4:59:56] Voice 12: time to talk about it here today so yeah happy to take any questions but again

[5:00:00] Voice 12: just a briefing for your information very

[5:00:02] Voice 9: good uh well does anybody else have any questions on

[5:00:05] Voice 9: this briefing all right um and yeah i would just note and i know that this was from from discussion

[5:00:15] Voice 9: i had with uh with uh trustee patrick um you know these the the rfps did go forward now the

[5:00:23] Voice 9: the the housing needs uh reports the the framework through which we viewed those

[5:00:32] Voice 9: was initially based on the assumption that we were going to be doing this on our dime

[5:00:37] Voice 9: um and so we may have requested more information um had we known we at the time we didn't know

[5:00:43] Voice 9: that the province was going to pony up um so we may have requested more information had we

[5:00:49] Voice 9: known that that extra resourcing was going to happen um and i know that that was something

[5:00:53] Voice 9: that the trustee patrick wanted to sort of attach to this discussion broadly um so as it was we may

[5:00:59] Voice 9: have asked for less information than we otherwise might have sought and those RFPs went out based

[5:01:07] Voice 9: on a previous resolution of this committee but not necessarily with that extra awareness in mind.

[5:01:14] Voice 9: In any case, let's steam ahead here and I'm very excited to hear from three members of our

[5:01:23] Voice 9: committee here and I suspect that Trustee Elliott is going to lead the charge but I

[5:01:29] Voice 9: I may be wrong.

[5:01:30] Voice 9: And yeah, I think we're looking forward

[5:01:33] Voice 9: to hearing about this RFD.

[5:01:36] Voice 9: Trustee Elliott?

[5:01:39] Trustee Elliott: Well, I'm going to take a leave from Director Cermak

[5:01:41] Trustee Elliott: and basically assume you've all read this comprehensive

[5:01:46] Trustee Elliott: but probably somewhat confusing report.

[5:01:50] Trustee Elliott: I want to thank Trustee Bolin, Trustee Campbell.

[5:01:54] Trustee Elliott: We've really worked hard on some of the questions

[5:01:58] Trustee Elliott: of what are the barriers and the obstacles

[5:02:01] Trustee Elliott: to potentially allowing tiny homes to be a legalized legal and a regulated form of housing

[5:02:09] Trustee Elliott: and so this is basically just presenting our work to date the best we could do was to start to

[5:02:17] Trustee Elliott: understand the regulatory framework and the only way we could do that was to map out all the

[5:02:24] Trustee Elliott: elements. So you'll see in that link to what's called a Plectica. It's a systems mapping tool

[5:02:31] Trustee Elliott: that allows you to map different relationships and agencies. And so we drew from a lot of

[5:02:39] Trustee Elliott: different documents, including BC Building Code. And again, most notable was the work that

[5:02:49] Trustee Elliott: a constituent in Salt Spring had done for the Salt Spring Island Housing Task Force.

[5:02:54] Trustee Elliott: uh forest uh bordolo and he analyzed the bc building code and with his experience building

[5:03:04] Trustee Elliott: small homes some of them small homes on wheels uh sort of assessed the environmental impact the

[5:03:12] Trustee Elliott: average per unit in impact of a tiny house versus a conventional home and so we found this useful

[5:03:20] Trustee Elliott: useful because um you know as we all know all of our work has to uphold the object of the trust

[5:03:26] Trustee Elliott: and so environmental considerations have to be um you know centered in our in our thinking so

[5:03:36] Trustee Elliott: we used plectica to sort of map out the options but it's not a great communication tool so there's a

[5:03:43] Trustee Elliott: a further, what are the next steps? And I mapped out quite a few, but we'd really like to know

[5:03:53] Trustee Elliott: from this committee if this work is valuable, if you think it should go for, you know, we keep

[5:03:58] Trustee Elliott: working on this, if we need to refine the advocacy or the request to the province. And

[5:04:08] Trustee Elliott: And what is the best way that we can engage with this tricky problem of how do we regulate a form of housing that regional districts say they're not going to inspect or consider buildings?

[5:04:25] Trustee Elliott: buildings and so um i appreciate director sternbeck's comments so if we go to um you know

[5:04:34] Trustee Elliott: sort of these late comments um i i am definitely supportive of what he suggested in this last

[5:04:42] Trustee Elliott: item resolution seven and eight sorry i'm weighing in with my opinion here so maybe i should pause

[5:04:47] Trustee Elliott: for discussion uh before we might go to the director's comments really i'm open to this

[5:04:52] Trustee Elliott: going any direction that the committee feels is useful we've tried to do some groundwork but

[5:04:59] Trustee Elliott: there's a lot more to do if tiny homes are to be an actual um reality in in the islands trust area

[5:05:08] Trustee Elliott: um marie or aaron do you want to jump in with anything before we go to questions and comments

[5:05:16] Voice 9: yeah um so trustee graham i'm going to let trustee bowen speak first and then we'll we'll

[5:05:21] Voice 9: weigh in afterwards and yeah yeah

[5:05:26] Voice 3: i can't i can't see that other people have their hands up

[5:05:30] Voice 3: apologies i just want to weigh in a little bit like this

[5:05:33] Voice 5: um

[5:05:34] Voice 3: i really to be honest when i started

[5:05:37] Voice 3: working on this i didn't really understand what a tiny home on the field was i now understand what

[5:05:43] Voice 3: it is i understand the huge advantages of being able to own your home and move it and i see that

[5:05:54] Voice 3: in the islands it is a very appropriate innovative way to sort of maybe undo a bottle jam a log jam

[5:06:04] Voice 3: and you know i'm in sandwich today and i can see this uh next door to canadian tower there's a

[5:06:10] Voice 3: say buy your tiny home here so I've had you know there's been on Facebook or require you know a

[5:06:17] Voice 3: request have you got a space that I could put my tiny home on I do think that it's a it's one thing

[5:06:24] Voice 3: that we could focus on and try and make happen and there's an enormous amount existing material

[5:06:31] Voice 3: like we did not create new material we just waded through everything that existed already so I think

[5:06:38] Voice 3: it's a huge opportunity and we don't have to invest a lot of money in it immediately

[5:06:44] Voice 3: and but i think it's a huge opportunity and it's actually supported by several of the housing

[5:06:51] Voice 3: strategic plan objectives thank you thanks

[5:06:55] Voice 9: very much mairead uh trustee campbell uh i know you

[5:06:58] Voice 9: unmuted there for a moment do you want to speak for a moment yeah

[5:07:02] Voice 7: sure um yeah just sort of to

[5:07:05] Voice 7: echo both what trustee elliott and boland have said um there's uh it's interesting uh having

[5:07:14] Voice 7: worked in in building um most of my life to see the difficulties that um regional districts

[5:07:25] Voice 7: specifically are having with the idea of um creating a framework to move something like

[5:07:32] Voice 7: this forward because in so many of our regions we actually have region specific allowances for

[5:07:43] Voice 7: different types of building or

[5:07:48] Voice 7: non-applicable where they've they've decided the bc building code requirement is not applicable

[5:07:54] Voice 7: whether it's for an environmental reason or just a redundancy.

[5:08:01] Voice 7: And so when we started going through a bunch of this stuff

[5:08:06] Voice 7: and looking at what the roadblocks to moving something like this forward is,

[5:08:12] Voice 7: it really seems like it comes down to people's inability to grasp

[5:08:19] Voice 7: what it is that we're asking for.

[5:08:22] Voice 7: And really, at the end of the day, all that's being requested when you start to break it down and realize that there already is a manufactured home standard, a tiny house that is allowed, it comes down to what is a foundation.

[5:08:39] Voice 7: foundation. And the idea that the only way that they will allow a tiny house is if it's put on

[5:08:51] Voice 7: a specific foundation. Regionally, you can determine what a foundation requirement is

[5:09:01] Voice 7: based on how big of a frost wall you need to have, how big of a footing. And that is something that

[5:09:08] Voice 7: that is allowed to be determined at a regional level.

[5:09:12] Voice 7: So we would consider that asking that you allow

[5:09:18] Voice 7: the framework for a tiny house to be sat on

[5:09:21] Voice 7: to be an on-wheel trailer is not really that unreasonable

[5:09:28] Voice 7: in our region and could request

[5:09:33] Voice 7: that a region specific exemption be given

[5:09:36] Voice 7: to allow the Southern Gulf Islands

[5:09:39] Voice 7: or the Gulf Islands to pursue tiny houses on wheels.

[5:09:43] Voice 7: So I think that it has quite a bit of merit

[5:09:46] Voice 7: and just a little bit of advocacy

[5:09:50] Voice 7: in order to start that discussion.

[5:09:53] Voice 7: So it'll be interesting to see what folks think.

[5:09:59] Voice 9: Absolutely.

[5:09:59] Voice 9: No, that's very good one.

[5:10:01] Voice 9: Thank you again to the three of you

[5:10:02] Voice 9: for all your work on this.

[5:10:04] Voice 9: And I know Toby in particular,

[5:10:06] Voice 9: you've been banging this drum for a long time

[5:10:08] Voice 9: and I'm really, really pleased

[5:10:09] Voice 9: to see that work coming before us. It's really good. It's good

[5:10:12] Voice 9: stuff. And these islands seem like it should be a no-brainer to be able to move in this way

[5:10:18] Voice 9: forward. This should be one of our great strengths in being on these islands. Trustee Graham.

[5:10:26] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair. Well done, the three people that worked so hard pulling this information

[5:10:32] Voice 11: together it was great reading i love tiny homes i hear about them all the time on denman and you

[5:10:41] Voice 11: know and i know that on denman probably on all the gulf islands people lots of people live in

[5:10:45] Voice 11: mobile homes and i'm sure they arrive on wheels in fact my buddy has one and if you if you if you

[5:10:52] Voice 11: take a peek under his skirt his skirting that he's put up i can see the wheels so um i know that the

[5:10:59] Voice 11: the Mobile Home Association or the manufacturers,

[5:11:01] Voice 11: they've obviously found a way to make the mobile home legal.

[5:11:07] Voice 11: Is it simply the name that's throwing the government off?

[5:11:11] Voice 11: And I'm not finished with my comments,

[5:11:13] Voice 11: but maybe you looked at what the difference is

[5:11:15] Voice 11: between a mobile home and a tiny home.

[5:11:17] Voice 11: I didn't really, in my naive way,

[5:11:20] Voice 11: I don't really see a lot of difference.

[5:11:21] Voice 11: Anyway, that's one question.

[5:11:24] Voice 11: I love the idea of establishing a different way of-

[5:11:27] Voice 11: Did

[5:11:27] Trustee Elliott: I pause there?

[5:11:29] Voice 11: Oh, sure.

[5:11:30] Voice 11: You

[5:11:30] Trustee Elliott: want me to answer that question before I forget?

[5:11:32] Voice 11: Okay.

[5:11:35] Trustee Elliott: The province has addressed that.

[5:11:39] Trustee Elliott: So their response to the UBCM resolution in 2022,

[5:11:43] Trustee Elliott: which was please amend the building code to allow tiny homes on wheels,

[5:11:47] Trustee Elliott: they said certain manufacturers are creating tiny homes on wheels.

[5:11:53] Trustee Elliott: The problem is that the RV industry does not want tiny homes.

[5:12:00] Trustee Elliott: full-time permanent dwellings to be regulated under the CSA Z240 model. Manufacturers are doing

[5:12:07] Trustee Elliott: that, but they don't want it. And it gets back to the question of what is the certification

[5:12:13] Trustee Elliott: needs to affirm the purpose for which a building or a structure was designed to be used.

[5:12:21] Trustee Elliott: And so RVs are designed to be used seasonally, and that is not a permanent full-time structure.

[5:12:28] Trustee Elliott: So that's why that one doesn't fit. Manufactured homes already exist. You can put them on a foundation. Most OCPs allow them and consider them dwellings. Some manufacturers are building tiny homes on wheels to the MH standard.

[5:12:44] Trustee Elliott: And so if you look through our materials, there's sort of a prioritization of different approaches. What we're proposing is that each LTC can look at different approaches and go, what fits our community?

[5:12:58] Trustee Elliott: Perhaps we need to allow manufactured homes, recognize that as a dwelling if you don't already, but some of them are going to want tiny homes on wheels, which don't necessarily fit a certification standard.

[5:13:11] Trustee Elliott: So, there's a lot of nuance, but the blockage is that the certification needs to match the intent for which the building was designed. And tiny homes always, on wheels, seem to fall between those two things. Sorry to interrupt you.

[5:13:28] Trustee Elliott: you.

[5:13:29] Voice 11: No, no, that's fine. I guess by asking the question that you asked about advocacy,

[5:13:34] Voice 11: is there a tiny home manufacturing association that could be lobbied to stop making tiny homes

[5:13:40] Voice 11: as if they were RVs and start making tiny homes that are mobile homes? So I'll just leave it at

[5:13:46] Voice 11: that. I liked your idea of recalculating density based on environmental impact. I think this is a

[5:13:52] Voice 11: a much more nuanced way of calculating density. I remember the early days of Trust and I, I was

[5:13:59] Voice 11: asking planners like, why do you just count kitchens? That becomes a dwelling. I said,

[5:14:03] Voice 11: because it's easy. It's easy to count a kitchen. And I thought, well, gosh, I know it would be

[5:14:08] Voice 11: more complicated to calculate environmental impact, but that's a much more clever way of

[5:14:17] Voice 11: measuring density. And finally, I can understand why the agency involved with safety always says,

[5:14:27] Voice 11: oh, well, we can't have people living full time and, you know, whatever, because we can't

[5:14:31] Voice 11: compromise people's safety. And I'm sure that the, again, the manufacturers of tiny homes can

[5:14:35] Voice 11: address whatever those safety issues are and build something that is just as safe as a little

[5:14:41] Voice 11: little home or a mobile home but once again thank you for your good work i hope you're we are

[5:14:46] Voice 11: successful someday because it is a great solution for people that can't afford a million dollars

[5:14:52] Voice 11: all

[5:14:58] Voice 9: right uh do we have any other comments that we want to hear on this piece that's been brought

[5:15:04] Voice 9: to us i

[5:15:07] Trustee Elliott: think we should hear from director sir mac about his uh his director's comments yes

[5:15:12] Voice 9: Yes, please, yeah, please, Director Cermony.

[5:15:16] Voice 12: Sure, thank you, Mr. Chair.

[5:15:18] Voice 12: So you'll see the director's comments.

[5:15:20] Voice 12: I did sort of swing this

[5:15:21] Voice 12: through the senior management real quick.

[5:15:22] Voice 12: So we had a tut-a-tut.

[5:15:26] Voice 12: So I acknowledged that I had some help

[5:15:29] Voice 12: with the director of administrative services

[5:15:33] Voice 12: and legislative services,

[5:15:34] Voice 12: just to make sure that I was given the best advice

[5:15:37] Voice 12: in the shortest time period possible, one night.

[5:15:40] Voice 12: Right. Nonetheless, so, you know, I think I'll just summarize my comments that I put in there saying that a lot of the things that are recommended are outside of the terms of reference of the RPC.

[5:15:53] Voice 12: You want to advocate. That is not really your role, although, you know, you're doing the work of the Housing Strategic Action Plan.

[5:16:00] Voice 12: So you'll see that my recommendations there, or at least comments, sorry, not my recommendations, that the RPC could recommend to Trust Council to implement the Housing Strategic Action Plan in the overall strategic plan and that Trust Council prioritize implementation of the objectives that are found regarding tiny homes on wheels.

[5:16:22] Voice 12: and so and I think that's the best course of action is in other words

[5:16:26] Voice 12: you're asking trust counsel to do this work or give you authority to do this

[5:16:30] Voice 12: work the advocacy if you haven't really been tuning in tension and I don't

[5:16:34] Voice 12: blame you if you haven't advocates you know trust area services is understaffed

[5:16:39] Voice 12: and they've been reminding quite a bit about this portion of advocacy is it's

[5:16:43] Voice 12: hard for them to get on top of but I think there might be a small workaround

[5:16:48] Voice 12: with that and that is the final little statement I put in the last sentence

[5:16:51] Voice 12: there that the current approved budget of the regional planning committee includes twenty

[5:16:56] Voice 12: thousand dollars for housing strategy and housing options toolkit it's unallocated we we actually

[5:17:02] Voice 12: recommended that you have that money but we haven't used it yet and now might be the opportune

[5:17:07] Voice 12: time to do so and as i talked to trustee elliott thinking i was talking about these directors

[5:17:13] Voice 12: comments but no we were just talking and it was the recommendation that um if the rpc would like

[5:17:22] Voice 12: to use those funds for this you have those funds um we could use those monies to help get a

[5:17:28] Voice 12: coordinator to move this item and toward towards having um you know not a round table it's not the

[5:17:36] Voice 12: word i'm looking for is um is is following up on the objectives as as trustee elliott and the rest

[5:17:42] Voice 12: of the team has put forward um and getting that staff resource to focus on this particular issue

[5:17:48] Voice 12: tiny homes on wheels i'll remind you also that the ubcm uh coming up very shortly is that the

[5:17:55] Voice 12: executive executive committee is meeting with the current minister of housing and it includes tiny

[5:18:01] Voice 12: homes on wheels or at least includes tiny homes building safeties in tiny homes so that's a topic

[5:18:06] Voice 12: of discussion coming up at ubcm i see charlotte looking into the recesses of we've

[5:18:11] Trustee Elliott: asked we don't

[5:18:12] Trustee Elliott: we don't know if we have meetings yet but oh

[5:18:14] Voice 12: but the ask has been there my apologies

[5:18:16] Voice 12: thank you that the request has been there so what i'm trying to say is that this if there's

[5:18:22] Voice 12: momentum here we do have some some capital that you could apply to this project if you if that's

[5:18:28] Voice 12: the wish of the rpc it's the timing is really good because staff have not brought forward any

[5:18:32] Voice 12: recommendations for you to apply that which means we'll be coming forward in november and um then

[5:18:37] Voice 12: we're starting to run into a time crunch so i think that's it other than to say a lot of my

[5:18:42] Voice 12: director's comments were of the unfortunate nature saying it's outside of your scope you can't do

[5:18:45] Voice 12: this so i'll leave it at that yeah

[5:18:48] Voice 9: no that's great and yeah trustee ellen is uh preempted my

[5:18:53] Voice 9: my my who's gonna pass this ball in her direction because obviously had not seen any of uh director

[5:19:00] Voice 9: sir max recommendations until this morning um and so hadn't had a chance to sort of dig into that

[5:19:06] Voice 9: and and apply that because i was very happy to steam ahead with all the things but uh i'd love

[5:19:11] Voice 9: to hear if trustee elliott's had any thoughts on how to strategize here yeah

[5:19:16] Trustee Elliott: so i mean dealing with

[5:19:18] Trustee Elliott: the easiest ones first um director surmax comment regarding resolution seven and eight about a

[5:19:24] Trustee Elliott: housing forum um i think that really um absolutely we should follow up on that

[5:19:32] Trustee Elliott: making sure that the elements of our uh housing action plan are included in the overall strategic

[5:19:39] Trustee Elliott: plan and that the trust council prioritize implementation of objectives 23 24 and 26

[5:19:45] Trustee Elliott: which i believe were to work with regional direct uh districts and so the interagency

[5:19:53] Trustee Elliott: cooperation is really key to tiny home legalization right so that's the two pieces where we can do the

[5:20:00] Trustee Elliott: zoning we can put in our ocps that we recognize tiny homes on wheels are a legitimate form of

[5:20:06] Trustee Elliott: housing but if a building inspector permitting agency will not permit that as a house you're

[5:20:13] Trustee Elliott: still going to be outside of a regulatory box right so um that was the essentially the intent

[5:20:19] Trustee Elliott: of of suggesting we have these forums or some kind of interagency group to work through the

[5:20:27] Trustee Elliott: issues and it's going to look different i think in the southern gulf islands is the north so

[5:20:31] Trustee Elliott: i'm happy to go with to recommend that um i don't i actually sorry go back to my original

[5:20:40] Trustee Elliott: recommendations here our sorry um number two i don't think we need to amend that

[5:20:49] Trustee Elliott: element of the Housing Strategic Action Plan. So Action 26, that still stands. We can advocate for

[5:20:55] Trustee Elliott: provincial regional support. I just wanted to be more specific because I thought we were going down

[5:21:00] Trustee Elliott: a course saying, well, we don't want to amend the BC Building Code. What do we want? A guide for

[5:21:06] Trustee Elliott: alternative solutions would be helpful. But since then, Trustee Campbell has come up with this other

[5:21:12] Trustee Elliott: idea, which is a regional exemption, and that might be also worth pursuing. So I'm definitely

[5:21:19] Trustee Elliott: supportive of keeping Action 26 as it is open, its advocacy in general, for whatever works to

[5:21:27] Trustee Elliott: allow tiny homes on wheels. Then the communication materials. So I understand that,

[5:21:38] Trustee Elliott: But, you know, producing materials with the Islands Trust stamp on it absolutely has to be part of, you know, designated body has to approve resources and all of that.

[5:21:54] Trustee Elliott: It was really just a matter of opportunity.

[5:21:57] Trustee Elliott: I have a longtime professional designer that I've worked with before who was just like, you need a tool, you need a website to convey in very simple ways the complexity of the issue.

[5:22:10] Trustee Elliott: And so I have somebody who is willing to work with me, but it is offside.

[5:22:15] Trustee Elliott: It's not asking for taxpayer dollars to pay somebody that wouldn't be appropriate.

[5:22:21] Trustee Elliott: um but resourcing a communication tool um so that we can communicate with

[5:22:29] Trustee Elliott: other regional partners we can communicate the issues and a website that could be adapted as

[5:22:36] Trustee Elliott: we learn more information that was what i think would be helpful but um we could just

[5:22:43] Trustee Elliott: eschew that i'm gonna maybe develop a communication tool anyways not gonna put the islands trust logo

[5:22:48] Trustee Elliott: Later on, if we find that's useful, we can bring it into our work. But really, I'm looking for endorsement from this committee to keep working on the problem, direction for advocacy, and do we use some of the money that we've earmarked as a placeholder and have a focused forum on tiny house solutions in the Gulf Islands in the next year?

[5:23:16] Trustee Elliott: And whether that's hiring a coordinator or to bring all those different people together, I'm fully supportive of anything that will keep this thing moving. I'll leave it there.

[5:23:34] Voice 9: Trustee Boland?

[5:23:39] Voice 3: I strongly support the idea of using this money for something practical.

[5:23:45] Voice 3: We have toolkits, we have alternative options, and many, many moving parts.

[5:23:53] Voice 3: But I do feel that this is a great example of potentially something practical and real that we can move forward.

[5:24:03] Voice 3: It would involve cooperation with the regional districts, which is good.

[5:24:07] Voice 5: and

[5:24:08] Voice 3: I think

[5:24:10] Voice 3: there are like I think at one stage

[5:24:12] Voice 3: South Spring said they reckon they had a hundred or more

[5:24:16] Voice 3: people living in illegal tiny homes

[5:24:19] Voice 3: so you know by not addressing this

[5:24:22] Voice 3: issue we are rendering invisible a whole

[5:24:25] Voice 3: bunch of people who are already using this solution

[5:24:28] Voice 5: so

[5:24:29] Voice 3: I would strongly strongly

[5:24:31] Voice 3: support getting those forums

[5:24:34] Voice 3: together and using this money

[5:24:36] Voice 3: and you know what Toby in particular and Aaron and I have pulled together

[5:24:44] Voice 3: it's sort of time sensitive to some degree because code and things change so if you don't

[5:24:51] Voice 3: jump on the bandwagon and keep this moving then it'll have to be done again and some of the key

[5:24:59] Voice 3: resources that Toby like described Boris's report was excellent and it was prepared for

[5:25:05] Voice 3: for the Salt Spring Island Housing Action Task Force,

[5:25:09] Voice 3: but nothing has happened.

[5:25:11] Voice 3: And it is a treasure trove of information,

[5:25:14] Voice 3: but it's in 2022.

[5:25:16] Voice 3: So if we delay, we run the risk of

[5:25:20] Voice 3: just having to do this all over again.

[5:25:22] Voice 3: And the volume of information that's out there

[5:25:25] Voice 3: about housing issues is just,

[5:25:28] Voice 3: I mean, it's kind of heartbreaking

[5:25:30] Voice 3: that all this material exists

[5:25:32] Voice 3: and we seem to be unable to do something

[5:25:35] Voice 3: and practical this is something practical we can do so please please please thank you

[5:25:43] Voice 9: and yeah i i uh i think we're all i think we're all fairly fairly supportive of of moving forward

[5:25:51] Voice 9: on um you know trying to make this this move forward where it's within our scope um and trustee

[5:25:57] Voice 9: campbell i want to hear from you in this moment i know trustee ellen has has uh again preempted my

[5:26:03] Voice 9: my thinking i'd love to see some you know what what can we take out of this rfd right now to

[5:26:08] Voice 9: make sure that it does move forward because i think we're all pretty pretty uh pro the initiative

[5:26:15] Voice 9: here in general uh trustee campbell um

[5:26:20] Voice 7: i just i mean i may be eating eating the dead horse already

[5:26:24] Voice 7: but um i think i think marie just made a really good point uh about the amount of of illegal

[5:26:34] Voice 7: legal housing quote unquote illegal housing that we have going on on salt spring on tender on i

[5:26:41] Voice 7: think it's many of the islands and people have been trust councils or local trust councils have

[5:26:47] Voice 7: even been pushed into a situation where you've got a non um non-enforcement on people living

[5:26:55] Voice 7: in trailers and stuff like that and really the advocacy aspect of this is just looking for an

[5:27:01] Voice 7: opportunity to give an actual standard to what these things are for people to create more

[5:27:07] Voice 7: security and safety for them um so i you know i think that that's a big part as conversations

[5:27:15] Voice 7: start to uh develop uh either with regional districts or or wherever they may ubcm wherever

[5:27:24] Voice 7: wherever it may come up, that really we're looking to try to legitimize something that's actually already happening

[5:27:32] Voice 7: and hopefully create a safer standard for it.

[5:27:35] Voice 7: So, Trustee Graham.

[5:27:46] Voice 11: Yeah, Trustee Elliott has provided a potential motion, which I'd be happy to make.

[5:27:53] Voice 11: And if the chair would entertain a motion at this time, I don't think we need to discuss the beauty of tiny homes.

[5:28:00] Voice 11: Homes, they're everywhere and they should be legal.

[5:28:02] Voice 11: So with your indulgence, I will move that the Regional Planning Committee endorse the baseline work done on the Tiny Homes on Wheels guide to date

[5:28:12] Voice 11: and request the Tiny House Working Group to continue work developing tools for advocacy and communications to enable Tiny Homes on Wheels in the trust area.

[5:28:23] Voice 9: Very good. Would anybody like to second that?

[5:28:28] Voice 7: I'm going to let Toby second that.

[5:28:32] Trustee Elliott: so is this outside the scope of what a working group's allowed to do advocacy does need to be

[5:28:39] Trustee Elliott: undertaken by executive committee um but to my mind this is developing tools we'll bring it back

[5:28:46] Trustee Elliott: to an approving body so nothing's going to get disseminated without some endorsement um but we

[5:28:55] Trustee Elliott: We just like your A-OK to keep working on this.

[5:28:57] Trustee Elliott: Sorry to speak before you, Trustee Graham.

[5:29:03] Voice 11: You've already demonstrated the quality of work that your group produces.

[5:29:06] Voice 11: I think we'd be foolish not to if you're willing to continue to do that work.

[5:29:11] Voice 11: And as you say, at some point, we'll make it legitimate by whatever group or body takes that on.

[5:29:19] Voice 12: And if I may, Mr. Chair?

[5:29:21] Voice 8: Please.

[5:29:22] Voice 12: If I may be, again, at the end of the day, I told Trustee Ella just to follow the leader, right?

[5:29:27] Voice 12: You know, she's making the work.

[5:29:28] Voice 12: Let's do that.

[5:29:29] Voice 12: that, but in terms of getting advocacy and communications out, I think that's pretty

[5:29:33] Voice 12: clear that that's executive committee.

[5:29:35] Voice 12: So whatever work that this working group may generate, you may review it, but it to endorse

[5:29:40] Voice 12: and go out and advocate using it with communications, it'll have to go to EC.

[5:29:45] Voice 12: So when you're ready to do that, that's great.

[5:29:46] Voice 12: We know the proper channel, but if you're going to develop the work and the working

[5:29:49] Voice 12: group, follow the leader.

[5:29:55] Trustee Elliott: Good thing

[5:29:56] Trustee Elliott: it's not an executive committee.

[5:30:01] Trustee Elliott: So I'm working on a resolution. Sorry, we've got to vote on that. And then.

[5:30:07] Voice 9: Yes, I think we have been seconded here. If we're if we're confident that this doesn't fall too far

[5:30:20] Voice 9: outside of our our purview, I would suggest that we call the vote unless we want to have any more

[5:30:27] Voice 9: discussion. All right. All in favor. Is this discussion or all in favor? Sounds like all in

[5:30:39] Voice 9: favor all right please raise your hands all right give staff a moment and please lower your hands

[5:30:47] Voice 9: uh do we have any opposed excellent that sounds like that carries okay and yeah do we have any

[5:31:05] Voice 9: other motions that want to come out of this yeah

[5:31:07] Trustee Elliott: more motions there's one just above that it is

[5:31:09] Trustee Elliott: about recommending to trust council that implementation of the trust counts islands

[5:31:13] Trustee Elliott: Trust Housing Action Plan be included in the 2025-28 Strategic Plan? And thank you. You've

[5:31:20] Trustee Elliott: got that. Implementation. Thank you. Rob's carried it, captured it. Excellent. And I've got one more

[5:31:25] Trustee Elliott: in the queue.

[5:31:27] Voice 9: So let's, so Trustee Elliott,

[5:31:33] Voice 9: you wish to move that? All right. And then Trustee

[5:31:38] Voice 9: Boland is happy to second it. I'm happy for that to go forward without us going through all the

[5:31:42] Voice 9: bits and pieces uh do we have any discussion all right not seeing any let's uh call the question

[5:31:50] Voice 9: all in favor very good all uh lower your hands do we have any opposed that also carries

[5:32:14] Trustee Elliott: there's one final one but i could use help with the wording um just put it in the chat there rob

[5:32:21] Trustee Elliott: and that is that rpc allocate the current approved budget of twenty thousand dollars

[5:32:26] Trustee Elliott: which had been allocated for the Housing Strategy and Housing Options Toolkit to support coordination of a strategic forum to enable tiny homes on wheels in the trust area.

[5:32:37] Trustee Elliott: And so I'm not sure what the thing is that we need.

[5:32:40] Trustee Elliott: I don't want to direct us to hire a coordinator if that's not the right thing.

[5:32:47] Trustee Elliott: hosting a forum for elected officials and building regulators and everybody to get together to talk

[5:32:53] Trustee Elliott: about the problem is sort of already on the action plan so that's why i use the word forum but if

[5:32:59] Trustee Elliott: anybody's got any better ideas stephan this sort of came from you so please uh do weigh in if that

[5:33:05] Trustee Elliott: needs refinement thanks yeah

[5:33:07] Voice 9: do any trustees want to comment or otherwise i'll i'll open the open

[5:33:12] Voice 9: open the floor to Director Cermak, Trustee Graham.

[5:33:17] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair.

[5:33:18] Voice 11: I'm always worried when we have these forums

[5:33:21] Voice 11: that we're simply getting together

[5:33:24] Voice 11: and speaking to those that are committed

[5:33:26] Voice 11: and then we all leave and nothing happens.

[5:33:28] Voice 11: I'm wondering if there's a more strategic gathering

[5:33:31] Voice 11: that would actually move the dial.

[5:33:35] Voice 11: And I know you hopefully have an opportunity

[5:33:38] Voice 11: to speak to the Minister of Housing

[5:33:40] Voice 11: and that's not too far down the road.

[5:33:41] Voice 11: um i i might suggest we just wait and see if that conversation shows any legs um if i i really want

[5:33:51] Voice 11: us to be i want i want us to spend this money really strategically and so the the general

[5:33:56] Voice 11: forum idea i'm not too i'm not too crazy about can

[5:34:02] Trustee Elliott: i speak to that before uh

[5:34:09] Voice 9: so

[5:34:09] Trustee Elliott: in my view this should only happen when we've mapped out all the options we know the barriers

[5:34:17] Trustee Elliott: and we're ready to talk how do we make this happen the reason the islands trust i think is the best

[5:34:23] Trustee Elliott: place to to not study the problem but advance it is that we all have different ltcs with different

[5:34:29] Trustee Elliott: needs that could um employ tiny homes in a different way and so i do think that a forum

[5:34:38] Trustee Elliott: to discuss the particulars is not it's not an abstract exercise it's getting together with

[5:34:45] Trustee Elliott: the building inspectors in your regional district to say what are the obstacles how does denman

[5:34:50] Trustee Elliott: hornby work with uh comox you know to advance this so maybe that forum's not the right word

[5:34:59] Trustee Elliott: To me, it kind of goes back to the technical working group that I'd envisioned where we bring in experts and planners and people from Island Health to work the problem with specific direction.

[5:35:15] Trustee Elliott: And that direction is going to be different for different communities.

[5:35:19] Trustee Elliott: Ceterna may come up with a, we want this, we need to enable that.

[5:35:25] Trustee Elliott: So that's why I'm not really sure how this would work.

[5:35:28] Trustee Elliott: But again, I'm going to turn it to Stefan, because this was kind of your idea of a coordinator to pull the pieces together.

[5:35:36] Voice 12: Oh, I mean, it's off.

[5:35:39] Voice 12: I'll defer to the elected officials before we speak, if that's okay, Mr. Chair.

[5:35:43] Voice 9: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[5:35:44] Voice 9: Trustee Boland?

[5:35:45] Voice 9: uh

[5:35:47] Voice 3: just quickly uh do we have to define like we need to bookmark that money but we don't

[5:35:56] Voice 3: necessarily have to lay out exactly what we're going to do yet i spoke passionately about forum

[5:36:03] Voice 3: but really could we say that there would be like assign that money to uh tiny homes on wheels

[5:36:11] Voice 3: deals with the goal of having a clear action plan by the next OPC, which could include

[5:36:21] Voice 3: forums, something along those lines.

[5:36:25] Voice 3: Anyway, I'll leave this at that.

[5:36:26] Voice 3: And Stefan, over to you.

[5:36:31] Voice 12: I see Ex Officio Chair Lockham's hand up before mine.

[5:36:35] Voice 12: Yes.

[5:36:36] Voice 12: Yeah.

[5:36:40] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[5:36:43] Trustee Luckham: You know, this is interesting.

[5:36:44] Trustee Luckham: There's a gray line in the sand that I'm concerned about, and we're talking here about spending money for something that is not really in the strategic plan, unless I'm wrong, and the funding that's available to the committee isn't necessarily allocated for this specific purpose.

[5:37:07] Trustee Luckham: certainly there's opportunity to shift money around. But I would like to hear from the

[5:37:14] Trustee Luckham: Director of Administrative Services, our financial officer, about the use of taxpayer funds

[5:37:22] Trustee Luckham: in this way. Because the forums that we've been holding in other areas of interest at

[5:37:32] Trustee Luckham: balance trust have been done through the secretariat and they struggle with getting

[5:37:38] Trustee Luckham: money to fund the projects that they're undertaking and i wonder how this might look

[5:37:44] Trustee Luckham: and i just want to make sure that we're on a safe path not set expectations that's just my

[5:37:53] Trustee Luckham: cautionary remarks i'm in support of the work but we're now talking about spending money uh

[5:38:04] Voice 12: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[5:38:07] Voice 12: Words of wisdom, for sure.

[5:38:10] Voice 12: Perhaps an amendment to the resolution, and this will slow things down, but not by so

[5:38:15] Voice 12: much, and maybe it'll address some of the concerns, at least give us time to report

[5:38:19] Voice 12: back, and that is to – I'll read it as a whole that I wrote it, but then I'll show

[5:38:24] Voice 12: you where I amend it – is that the RPC requests staff to report back on options to allocate

[5:38:29] Voice 12: the current approved budget of $20,000, et cetera.

[5:38:34] Voice 12: And so that gives us a chance to look into those concerns that were raised, gives us also a better accounting, you know, of how we would use those funds.

[5:38:44] Voice 12: And so we can detail, you know, how many staff hours or how many hours we can get out of staff to do what and so on and so forth.

[5:38:50] Voice 12: So if you'd like a better accounting and a better, less gray and more black, less red, we have to do to make that amendment that we can report back on options.

[5:39:00] Voice 12: That

[5:39:02] Trustee Elliott: sounds good. It just means we wouldn't make a decision on this until November. And I just want to be clear, we do have budget that is still unallocated to advance housing, and there has been no other strategy or proposal for what to use that for. So I don't think this is outside of what had been earmarked. No?

[5:39:34] Voice 12: through the chair oh i'm sorry i think i think you're right that it was a general area but have

[5:39:39] Voice 12: i've certainly had my wrist slapped that that was a improper procedure not to to create a budget

[5:39:44] Voice 12: without having a clear direction of how to spend it uh the sort of general twenty thousand dollar

[5:39:49] Voice 12: fund was uh not advised uh so we did it twice um and that's okay but i certainly can't recommend

[5:39:56] Voice 12: we do it again but here we are with the twenty thousand dollars that you may choose to use it was

[5:40:01] Voice 12: approved for purposes of implementing the housing strategic action plan this is a part of that for

[5:40:07] Voice 12: sure but if we'd like to the rpc would like us to be more detailed about how we'd be happy to report

[5:40:14] Voice 12: back for that all

[5:40:19] Trustee Elliott: right well i don't i don't know sorry uh trustee luckum i the if we might wait

[5:40:31] Trustee Elliott: another three months what's going to happen is you know i don't know

[5:40:36] Trustee Luckham: you know what housing is

[5:40:40] Trustee Luckham: an enormous problem tiny homes is an enormous problem you clearly have resistance from regional

[5:40:44] Trustee Luckham: districts and the building code authorities um you have to figure this is not a short-term there's

[5:40:52] Trustee Luckham: not a short-term solution here um so i wouldn't put my eggs into that i'm supportive of the idea

[5:40:59] Trustee Luckham: of finding a path forward here but we're talking about spending taxpayer dollars of which we have a

[5:41:05] Trustee Luckham: obligation to ensure that they're being spent in an appropriate way and i'm not saying that you

[5:41:13] Trustee Luckham: would spend money in an inappropriate way you might innocently spend it somewhere which has

[5:41:17] Trustee Luckham: caught people out in the past uh even at the island's trust um in a way that we weren't

[5:41:24] Trustee Luckham: anticipating. So it doesn't hurt to be cautionary. If

[5:41:31] Voice 9: I may, this proposed option of way to spend is

[5:41:39] Voice 9: not immediately steaming forward with drafting legislation or making concrete things. It is to

[5:41:49] Voice 9: to assemble and coordinate a forum to discuss the issue,

[5:41:56] Voice 9: which this is moving towards trying to provide housing.

[5:42:02] Voice 9: That seems to me like that's an appropriate,

[5:42:04] Voice 9: this is investigating a possible option for housing.

[5:42:08] Voice 9: That doesn't seem like it's wildly out of line

[5:42:10] Voice 9: for that budget.

[5:42:12] Voice 9: And this is to support those discussions,

[5:42:18] Voice 9: which would hopefully address the concerns

[5:42:19] Voice 9: by by those other bodies so it doesn't seem like it's wildly out but i i mean i do appreciate that

[5:42:27] Voice 9: and i i you know i appreciate the caution from from uh from trustee luckham and and from director

[5:42:33] Voice 9: but uh yeah trustee campbell i

[5:42:40] Voice 7: guess the question is if we have this money earmarked to do something

[5:42:43] Voice 7: thing with housing and we agree that this is a positive um thing to move forward what is the

[5:42:54] Voice 7: process that would need to happen to use that money to for to move this forward is it a you

[5:43:05] Voice 7: know a request for a decision is it a like what are what would the what would we as a group need

[5:43:13] Voice 7: need to do to request to use those funds to move something like this forward for housing ask julia

[5:43:23] Trustee Luckham: i

[5:43:25] Voice 7: think

[5:43:26] Trustee Elliott: it's asked trust council sorry i've got my hand up yet but that's an excellent question

[5:43:30] Trustee Elliott: trustee campbell so why doesn't rpc recommend to trust council that it allocates this budget

[5:43:38] Trustee Elliott: specifically for the purpose of a coordination of a forum with a focus on enabling tiny homes

[5:43:44] Trustee Elliott: in the trust area we get them

[5:43:46] Trustee Elliott: in september trust council gets to say yes or no you want you can use

[5:43:50] Trustee Elliott: those funds for that purpose and we can move forward with confidence or not good idea better

[5:43:57] Trustee Luckham: than stefan's motion all

[5:44:02] Voice 9: right uh well uh trustee ellie would you like to make that or uh trustee

[5:44:08] Voice 9: boland uh

[5:44:10] Voice 3: just a quick one but can we incorporate in the motion that by the time it gets to trust

[5:44:14] Voice 3: council there'll be a more specific description of what the forum like what you were saying

[5:44:20] Voice 3: earlier kelby that we're talking about technical people who will come together to work out how to

[5:44:28] Voice 3: do it it's not going to be just a token shop and a ringing of hands it's going to be like people

[5:44:34] Voice 3: who really can make this happen we don't do that in the motion but we may need it by the time we

[5:44:41] Voice 3: get to trust council thanks i

[5:44:45] Trustee Elliott: think time is short and i'll do my best to to help staff because i

[5:44:49] Trustee Elliott: know getting this into the agenda would be um super tricky so but i think leaving it open

[5:44:55] Trustee Elliott: to support coordination of a forum with a phone okay so i move that rpc recommends to trust

[5:45:03] Trustee Elliott: council that it allocate the budget of twenty thousand dollars dash allocated for the how to

[5:45:14] Trustee Elliott: advance the housing strategy and housing options toolkit let's just

[5:45:19] Voice 9: make sure we're giving rob the

[5:45:20] Voice 9: time

[5:45:21] Trustee Elliott: allocated to advance uh because this is not new money so it had been allocated instead of four

[5:45:30] Trustee Elliott: uh there rob so after the word allocated allocated strikeout for to advance the housing

[5:45:41] Trustee Elliott: strategy and housing options toolkit and then maybe add after that in order to support coordination

[5:45:47] Trustee Elliott: for uh of a forum uh just remove strategic coordination of a forum with a focus on

[5:45:59] Trustee Elliott: enabling tiny homes in the trust area you could take out on wheels um so that leaves it open um

[5:46:11] Trustee Elliott: we're talking about a specific direction money for a forum should it

[5:46:19] Voice 3: be for should you say for

[5:46:21] Voice 3: forums because we did think there would be a north and south element sure okay

[5:46:27] Trustee Elliott: uh director

[5:46:29] Trustee Elliott: Dr. Cermak, does that jive with you and anybody else see anything wrong in this?

[5:46:45] Voice 5: It's perfect.

[5:46:46] Voice 9: Yeah, I'm

[5:46:47] Voice 8: not hearing any dissension.

[5:46:49] Voice 8: All right.

[5:46:51] Voice 8: So that is moved by Trustee Elliott.

[5:46:54] Voice 9: Who wishes to be the seconder?

[5:46:56] Voice 9: Trustee Campbell is the top of my hands there.

[5:47:00] Voice 9: All right.

[5:47:02] Voice 9: Let's call the question.

[5:47:03] Voice 9: All in favor?

[5:47:04] Voice 9: All right.

[5:47:15] Voice 9: Please lower your hands.

[5:47:20] Voice 9: and any post

[5:47:21] Voice 9: that carries.

[5:47:28] Trustee Elliott: Thank you, everyone.

[5:47:30] Voice 9: Well, thank you,

[5:47:32] Voice 9: Toby. That's been a lot of work.

[5:47:34] Voice 9: And you guys have done really good, really good

[5:47:36] Voice 9: stuff on this. I think

[5:47:38] Voice 9: that gets us awfully close

[5:47:41] Voice 9: to

[5:47:43] Voice 9: the end of our agenda.

[5:47:44] Voice 9: We've got a

[5:47:46] Voice 9: verbal, and I think

[5:47:50] Voice 9: that's everything on your

[5:47:53] Voice 9: RFD,

[5:47:53] Voice 9: Trustee Elliott for now? Okay, perfect. So I see that we have, we had an update on the access to

[5:48:08] Voice 9: short-term rental data, but I think we've effectively, because I think Dr. Cermak,

[5:48:18] Voice 9: you spoke to that already. No problem, Trustee Larone. We're going to be, I think we're all

[5:48:32] Voice 9: hoping to wrap up in the short, in fairly short order here. Was there, was there anything

[5:48:38] Voice 9: Anything additional, Director Cermak, with regards to the short-term rental data?

[5:48:45] Voice 12: No, I will keep, so I was working in the background, I will keep RPC updated and I'll include in

[5:48:54] Voice 12: my director's report as things become more solidified and as the agreements get signed

[5:48:58] Voice 12: and stuff like that.

[5:48:59] Voice 12: So I'll stay tuned, but there's nothing else for me to report other than that I've got

[5:49:04] Voice 12: verbal permission from staff to have access to data.

[5:49:07] Voice 12: all

[5:49:08] Voice 9: right uh so then we have our work program uh to forward to trust council i think that all

[5:49:24] Voice 9: looked fine to me do it does anybody have anything they want to raise on that right

[5:49:35] Voice 9: seeing nothing i'm gonna say is it is it possible for us to refer that by general consent

[5:49:42] Voice 9: okay i'm seeing director sir mac nodding that sounds good i know we're all

[5:49:46] Voice 9: fading a little so we're almost there folks all right and I think that the

[5:49:52] Voice 9: last thing is our next meeting is set to be Friday November 8th 2024 from 10 a.m.

[5:49:59] Voice 9: 3 p.m. as per usual and I think with that we we move to adjournment

[5:50:10] Voice 8: as ever

[5:50:11] Voice 8: unhappy with that all right thanks very much everyone and bearing with me in my

[5:50:17] Voice 8: inaugural chairing um thank you

[5:50:19] Voice 11: so much trustee worthwick you rockstar all

[5:50:25] Voice 9: right thanks very

[5:50:26] Voice 6: much everyone i know there's a

[5:50:27] Voice 9: lot of stuff to get through so i think we did a good job

[5:50:30] Voice 6: thanks enjoy

[5:50:31] Voice 8: the rest of the sunshine for the day and thank you so much