Islands Trust Executive Committee regular meeting, October 3, 2024

[0:00:01] Voice 18: All right. Well, thank you for joining us.

[0:00:05] Voice 18: This is the Islands Trust Committee of the Whole for Thursday, October 3rd, 2024.

[0:00:14] Voice 18: And I'm Tim Peterson, elected on the Skeete Island and chair of the committee for today.

[0:00:19] Voice 18: Let's start by acknowledging that we're fortunate to be able to gather today across locations in the territory of the Salish Sea and the First Nations that have been here since time immemorial.

[0:00:36] Voice 18: Monday was the fourth National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, the fourth.

[0:00:42] Voice 18: Acknowledging the harms visited upon generations of Indigenous peoples through historical injustices such as the Indian residential school system,

[0:00:51] Voice 18: is to acknowledge an ugly and painful past.

[0:00:54] Voice 18: The stories from survivors are shocking and disturbing to hear.

[0:00:58] Voice 18: It is difficult for those of us who never had to go through those experiences

[0:01:02] Voice 18: to fully understand the intensity and pain felt by those who did,

[0:01:06] Voice 18: to understand the intergenerational trauma that remains as a legacy of those injustices.

[0:01:12] Voice 18: For many of us, the revelations over the past few years come as a shocking surprise.

[0:01:17] Voice 18: However, there is clear evidence that those operating the system knew full well

[0:01:21] Voice 18: well about the atrocities that were being committed upon Indigenous children in these

[0:01:24] Voice 18: institutions. The Davin Report of 1879 showed the clear methodical intention of the Canadian

[0:01:31] Voice 18: government to force Indigenous children out of their communities and away from their cultures

[0:01:36] Voice 18: by any means necessary. The Shaw Letter of 1898 detailed the rampant physical and mental abuse

[0:01:43] Voice 18: taking place, and the author, Elizabeth Shaw, was discredited and declared mentally unfit by the

[0:01:48] Voice 18: Methodist missionary who founded that school. The Bryce Report of 1907 was even more damning.

[0:01:59] Voice 18: Although this report was distributed to members of Parliament and covered by the press, it did

[0:02:03] Voice 18: not lead to any lasting change. Dr. Bryce spent years repeatedly calling for change and pointing

[0:02:08] Voice 18: out the atrocities occurring within the schools, until he was forcibly retired in 1921. Bryce was

[0:02:15] Voice 18: was fired from his job as chief medical officer and never worked in the medical field again.

[0:02:20] Voice 18: These documents clearly show that those in charge were aware of the abuses that went on,

[0:02:24] Voice 18: unchecked for the duration that the Indian residential schools were in operation.

[0:02:29] Voice 18: In 1996, Gordon Reserve Indian Residential School in Saskatchewan, the last of its kind,

[0:02:35] Voice 18: was closed and demolished. 1996. These are truths. We must acknowledge the truth

[0:02:42] Voice 18: truth as a precursor to reconciliation. So with that, we will look to our approval of the agenda,

[0:02:58] Voice 18: and I'm hoping that there's no one who's wanting to add anything today. I think we've got plenty

[0:03:05] Voice 18: to work on, but I'll just look for general consent. If there's anyone adamantly opposed,

[0:03:12] Voice 18: please speak up now. Not seeing any, I'll take it by general consent. We'll adopt the agenda

[0:03:20] Voice 18: as presented. The minutes, hopefully everyone got my email. The minutes aren't ready for adoption

[0:03:29] Voice 18: today, but we did get a draft out to trustees just for reference for the recommendations

[0:03:37] Voice 18: from our last meeting last week. And so, also no follow-up action list, our short time in between.

[0:03:47] Voice 18: Queen. So we'll jump right into the draft policy statement. Again, I want to thank staff for

[0:03:56] Voice 18: getting us the red line version out that reflects our work from last week. I'm going to turn it over

[0:04:01] Voice 18: to staff to start us off.

[0:04:06] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair Peterson. I'll just start off by noting we're

[0:04:10] Voice 10: relatively close to quorum at the moment, so if you do choose to step away from the meeting,

[0:04:14] Voice 10: could you please announce that that's happening, such that we can track quorum through the meeting.

[0:04:18] Voice 10: um with regard to how we're going to conduct the meeting today our intention is to share with you

[0:04:24] Voice 10: on screen the word version of the draft policy statement showing the red line from what was

[0:04:30] Voice 10: discussed as changes that you recommend to council for adoption and then the opportunity to work

[0:04:37] Voice 10: through um work through any additional changes that you'd like i think the intention of the

[0:04:42] Voice 10: chair was to just review if there's anything needed further in terms of the discussion with

[0:04:46] Voice 10: of objective three knowing that of course you can circle back at any point over the next year or so

[0:04:50] Voice 10: as you contemplate this document and then I think the intention was if not um either finish up

[0:04:56] Voice 10: commentary on section three and then move into or sorry objective three move into objective four

[0:05:01] Voice 10: um and uh again if you would like to um consider being chair I'll just plug this now for a future

[0:05:08] Voice 10: committee of the whole please do get an expression of interest into executive committee so with that

[0:05:14] Voice 10: i'll turn it back to the chair and um ask i think it's um uh senior policy advisor humans is going

[0:05:20] Voice 10: to be sharing on screen i'm not sure who's sharing on screen today someone will be sharing the word

[0:05:24] Voice 10: version with you on screen um and moving through the document as you wish thank you uh thank you

[0:05:32] Voice 18: director freighter and um to your point about quorum i do have regrets from trustees borthwick

[0:05:39] Voice 18: Mick, Gavreau, Middleton, and Stamford today, who set those in earlier.

[0:05:47] Voice 18: Mr. Yeomans, did you have, I see your mic is on, so over to you.

[0:05:52] Voice 12: Yeah, indeed,

[0:05:52] Voice 12: I can certainly share the current redline version of the statement,

[0:05:56] Voice 12: if you'll just bear with me momentarily.

[0:06:09] Voice 12: All right, does everyone have a view of it?

[0:06:14] Voice 12: I can see it now.

[0:06:16] Voice 12: All right, fantastic.

[0:06:19] Voice 12: Chair Peterson, I'm not sure whether there was anything you wanted to cover in Objective 3,

[0:06:22] Voice 12: or whether we should move directly down to Objective 4.

[0:06:25] Voice 12: I will move that to your description.

[0:06:29] Voice 12: I'm

[0:06:29] Voice 18: hoping we don't have a lot more to do on Objective 3,

[0:06:32] Voice 18: but I do see a hand up, so I'll go to Trustee Evans.

[0:06:36] Voice 8: Thanks.

[0:06:38] Voice 8: So I'm just coming to the word prioritize in the section again.

[0:06:43] Voice 8: So it is in six out of the seven items here.

[0:06:48] Voice 8: And I was hoping that we could maybe get a description

[0:06:53] Voice 8: description of the word priorities, I'm using the wrong word, definition, definition, put in here as

[0:06:58] Voice 8: to how that word is being used, because either it's being used as this is more important than

[0:07:04] Voice 8: anything else, which I don't think it can be because it's in six out of the seven items here,

[0:07:09] Voice 8: or does it mean that particularly this section takes priority over all other sections because

[0:07:15] Voice 8: it's more important than, or does it mean that it's done in a specific order, or is it this

[0:07:22] Voice 8: this versus that. So there are a few, there are multiple definitions of the word prioritize.

[0:07:27] Voice 8: And I think we just have to be clear as to how we're using it in these instances. So I noticed

[0:07:33] Voice 8: that it's not in the definitions. So if we could get a definition as to how it's being used,

[0:07:38] Voice 8: that would help clarify what is meant in these sections. And that would be helpful. Thank you.

[0:07:49] Voice 18: Glossary as well. Any comment from staff? If we're looking for a definition, I would hope that we

[0:07:56] Voice 18: we could defer that part to another session

[0:08:03] Voice 18: rather than go into trying to define it today.

[0:08:06] Voice 18: That would make sense.

[0:08:08] Voice 18: But I'll just look to staff first.

[0:08:14] Voice 10: I'm happy to take it.

[0:08:15] Voice 10: It's hard with two of us, two of your staff here.

[0:08:17] Voice 10: Certainly, if that's a request of staff

[0:08:19] Voice 10: that we provide you with some options around definitions,

[0:08:22] Voice 10: that would be great to have in the form of a request,

[0:08:25] Voice 10: like through a motion.

[0:08:29] Voice 18: Okay. Thank you for that. Trustee Evans, something further?

[0:08:32] Voice 8: I was just going to ask if I needed to make a recommendation or suggestion for the motion,

[0:08:37] Voice 8: and I can do that if that's needed and sounds like it is.

[0:08:42] Voice 1: Yeah, it

[0:08:43] Voice 8: does sound like it is.

[0:08:43] Voice 1: It is very

[0:08:43] Voice 8: helpful to staff to track these requests.

[0:08:46] Voice 8: Okay. So I move that the Committee of the Whole suggest that staff,

[0:08:59] Voice 8: staff because we can't make we can't make decisions and i don't know like quite how to do

[0:09:03] Voice 8: that is this a suggestion or is this a request at this point

[0:09:06] Voice 10: at at this point until we undertake

[0:09:09] Voice 10: further consideration for you you could request that executive committee direct staff okay so

[0:09:14] Voice 8: then i move that the committee of the whole direct executive committee to request staff to

[0:09:24] Voice 8: um create a definition of the word prioritize as is used in this document

[0:09:33] Voice 18: And I would suggest that it's probably this body will recommend that executive committee do that.

[0:09:41] Voice 10: So if I might, if the person could think of Jason's sharing screen, if you could unshare, and then we could have the motion put on screen just for certainty for those voting. Thank you.

[0:09:52] Voice 10: so

[0:09:57] Voice 18: we'll wait for that to get on screen and then i'll look for a seconder and i have seen a request

[0:10:09] Voice 18: to for those sharing the screen to zoom it a bit for ease of um seeing okay uh so uh moved and uh

[0:10:26] Voice 18: who would like to second if

[0:10:28] Voice 10: i might jump in chair before seconding perhaps the mover might consider

[0:10:32] Voice 10: are saying as used in the draft policy statement, just so the motion can be interpreted well over

[0:10:38] Voice 10: time.

[0:10:39] Voice 8: Perfect. Thank you.

[0:10:43] Voice 18: Excellent suggestion. Okay. I see two hands up, but I'm not sure if

[0:10:49] Voice 18: either of you are intending to second the motion.

[0:10:52] Voice 9: I'll second it.

[0:10:54] Voice 18: Okay. That's good. And Trustees

[0:10:57] Voice 18: Graham and Falk, I'm just going to note you down. And if you want to lower your hands, we'll go into

[0:11:04] Voice 18: discussion on the motion and and I'll call on you when we're done with this

[0:11:10] Voice 18: bit trustee yes

[0:11:15] Voice 2: I think it's on the motion I we could choose to make it part

[0:11:25] Voice 2: of the motion amending the motion or we could we could do this topic that I'm

[0:11:30] Voice 2: gonna bring up after the motion but I feel like we need to give some we you

[0:11:36] Voice 2: This group needs to give some idea of direction for how we're thinking of priority.

[0:11:45] Voice 2: It's us that has to have the intent.

[0:11:47] Voice 2: So instead of just giving the staff a blank sort of instruction where they won't really know where to go at all, if we haven't given any direction on it.

[0:12:00] Voice 2: So I feel like we need to have a discussion and then we can have another motion maybe after this motion to give that direction.

[0:12:06] Voice 2: or we can roll that into this motion.

[0:12:11] Voice 18: Okay, thank you for that.

[0:12:12] Voice 18: I suppose we could also consider the possibility

[0:12:17] Voice 18: that there might be more than one option

[0:12:19] Voice 18: and whatever we want to settle on

[0:12:22] Voice 18: could go into the glossary of the document itself.

[0:12:25] Voice 18: Trustee Patrick, next.

[0:12:29] Trustee Patrick: Well, as I said to Trust Council recently,

[0:12:31] Trustee Patrick: I feel that these forms of environment ecosystems

[0:12:34] Trustee Patrick: that are identified as being prioritized

[0:12:38] Trustee Patrick: stand on their own, I think the question becomes more about implementation and what that means.

[0:12:50] Trustee Patrick: I mean, as a local trust committee choosing to prioritize, not choosing, but prioritizing and

[0:12:59] Trustee Patrick: evaluating based on what's here, they're going to make decisions. And then it's going to end

[0:13:05] Trustee Patrick: it back to EC as being is it good enough so I think that's where the question more or less lies

[0:13:12] Trustee Patrick: putting a definition of what it means isn't necessarily going to help I don't think in this

[0:13:17] Trustee Patrick: document but from an implementation standpoint I think there needs to be some clarity developed

[0:13:22] Trustee Patrick: around what is intended so that the standards are met when bylaws are delivered back up to

[0:13:29] Trustee Patrick: executive committee that's

[0:13:33] Voice 18: very good point uh trustee boland um

[0:13:40] Voice 9: i have more or less the same

[0:13:41] Voice 9: point to make i find it very um first of all even going back the directive versus the advisory i

[0:13:50] Voice 9: would recommend that we have no directive policies and and within those i think the instructions

[0:13:57] Voice 9: Instructions are, we don't have the power to actually execute some of the things we are instructed to do.

[0:14:07] Voice 9: I'm not saying that we shouldn't, within our powers, endeavor towards sort of ecosystem integrity protection goals.

[0:14:19] Voice 9: But some of the directions are beyond our scope.

[0:14:25] Voice 9: up. And furthermore, with respect to prioritise in particular, I think if we go back to our

[0:14:31] Voice 9: recent discussion about the meaning of the mandate, we agreed that we would balance.

[0:14:39] Voice 9: So I don't know how we fit that in, that we in all our decisions would consider balancing

[0:14:46] Voice 9: balancing, and, you know, setting certain things up as priorities is not what we agreed we were

[0:14:55] Voice 9: going to do. Thank you.

[0:15:00] Voice 18: Thank you. I have Luckum, Getty, and Graham. So, Mr. Luckum.

[0:15:06] Voice 18: Oh,

[0:15:07] Voice 13: thank you. Can you hear me okay? Yes. That's great. I was having trouble with my microphone

[0:15:12] Voice 13: earlier um i think it's a reasonable thing to um have a definition um because i have looked up

[0:15:21] Voice 13: i post our conversation i did look into this notion and and i um i sort of think that the

[0:15:27] Voice 13: prioritization notion is many things being uh prioritized equally when we've identified them

[0:15:34] Voice 13: as needing that priority and indeed if you look at some definitions and there's lots of them out

[0:15:39] Voice 13: there um there is a pluralism associated with it and an association with groups of items being

[0:15:47] Voice 13: prioritized and so um uh but there's also singularity and sequential uh ideas surrounding

[0:15:55] Voice 13: it so i think it's worthy to for council to express its interpretation of that word thank you

[0:16:04] Voice 18: Thank you for that.

[0:16:05] Voice 18: Trustee Getty?

[0:16:09] Voice 18: I'm not sure.

[0:16:13] Voice 18: Oh, you've muted yourself.

[0:16:16] Voice 14: I'm not sure that we're going to be able to sort it out at this meeting.

[0:16:20] Voice 14: And I like this motion in terms of requesting executive committee to request staff.

[0:16:29] Voice 14: What Trustee Evans was talking about, it seemed what I heard was that there's several examples

[0:16:34] Voice 14: and possibly many or multiple interpretations and definitions.

[0:16:40] Voice 14: And I'd like to have some illustrations of where the word is used

[0:16:45] Voice 14: in all the different times and have a future discussion

[0:16:49] Voice 14: in terms of, you know, this is maybe what we mean here

[0:16:53] Voice 14: and maybe what we mean something differently here.

[0:16:55] Voice 14: And just see the whole idea of prioritizing equally

[0:17:00] Voice 14: equally is um a little bit confusing for me i'm not sure what uh trustee luckham was

[0:17:07] Voice 14: i kind of get a gist but i think that that's also another um discussion if we're grouping things in

[0:17:14] Voice 14: some order and um i think it's a complex question that we're not going to be able to sort out

[0:17:21] Voice 14: now um and it's i'd like more information in terms of whether or not and how we want to sort it out

[0:17:29] Voice 14: So I like the motion the way it is, and we'll get some feedback later.

[0:17:38] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:17:39] Voice 18: Next, Trustee Graham and then Trustee Bernardo, and hopefully we won't get too deep in the

[0:17:44] Voice 18: weeds on this today.

[0:17:45] Voice 18: Go ahead, Trustee Graham.

[0:17:47] Voice 17: Thank you, Chair.

[0:17:49] Voice 17: You gave staff a chance to comment before the motion was put on, and I had my hand up.

[0:17:55] Voice 17: I was hoping to discuss it before we started this whole discussion.

[0:17:58] Voice 17: So I know it's tricky to chair when we have this rather strange platform to be working with. And I may be late to the conversation, but I mean, I was looking at the policy statement as it exists now. And the word prioritize is throughout that document, and we've never had a problem with it.

[0:18:18] Voice 17: I don't recall a conversation at Trust Council or at any local trust committee where we struggled with the word, where we didn't feel it was appropriate to prioritize the protection of the natural environment.

[0:18:29] Voice 17: And I'm really confused why we're spending so much time on what I consider a fairly simple and fundamental concept that the trust has endorsed for 50 years.

[0:18:41] Voice 17: so that's I won't be voting for staff to do any work on the word I I'm not comfortable removing

[0:18:47] Voice 17: the word from the document I think we should go back to the simplistic uh appreciation of the word

[0:18:53] Voice 17: in the original document and move on thank

[0:18:58] Voice 18: you trustee Graham and my apologies I thought I'd

[0:19:01] Voice 18: asked um both you and trustee Falk if you had were speaking on the motion but uh I I have both

[0:19:09] Voice 18: of you written down uh for when we're done with us trustee bernardo please yeah

[0:19:14] Voice 16: uh i'm in uh

[0:19:16] Voice 16: kind of an agreement with uh trustee giddy here uh i don't think we're gonna spend a tremendous

[0:19:22] Voice 16: amount of time on this right now and i i'm struggling with this because i i it seems to

[0:19:30] Voice 16: me that the word prioritize is just redundant maybe that's why we're getting confused because

[0:19:34] Voice 16: my understanding of the purpose of the trust policy statement is to define policy priorities

[0:19:39] Voice 16: Priorities. I would think that anything that we identify as a directive policy is by definition a priority. We're prioritizing that over whatever else an LTC might want to do. So I don't want to beat this to death, but to me, and I could be wrong, but to me, it seems the word prioritize is just kind of gilding the lily.

[0:20:08] Voice 16: I mean, the fact that you say something in the trust policy statement, it

[0:20:11] Voice 16: makes it a priority

[0:20:12] Voice 16: just right there. So, you know, I could live with either one, but I don't think the word

[0:20:17] Voice 16: is even necessary. But, you know, I'm fine with the resolution. Thanks.

[0:20:25] Voice 18: Okay. Thank you. I don't see any more hands up. So, I'm just going to go ahead and call the

[0:20:30] Voice 18: question. All those in favor?

[0:20:33] Voice 8: Aye. Yes.

[0:20:36] Voice 18: I think that was Trustee Dodds. It is.

[0:20:40] Voice 18: thank you okay see i saw uh 11 with trustee dodds so hands down please and those opposed

[0:21:03] Voice 18: okay three opposed so that carries all right um trustee falk and trustee graham i have your hands

[0:21:16] Voice 18: from before we went into the motion did you have something to add at this point or should we just

[0:21:20] Voice 18: get into the first box here let's let's do it then so um

[0:21:26] Voice 18: so the first box is directed policies

[0:21:30] Voice 18: managing growth and development let's start out with um 3.1 and i'll just look for a show of hands

[0:21:39] Voice 18: any comments or suggestions on this item

[0:21:44] Voice 1: is

[0:21:48] Voice 18: that you trustee boland go ahead

[0:21:52] Voice 9: um thanks

[0:21:54] Voice 9: yes uh i i'm looking at the description of objective three so it's above that if that's okay

[0:22:03] Voice 9: sure

[0:22:05] Voice 2: um

[0:22:06] Voice 9: so it takes out um actually can i stop for a second i got confused i'm lowering my hand

[0:22:18] Voice 9: to gather my thoughts i won't subject you to a verbal gathering of thoughts thanks

[0:22:27] Voice 18: okay um gather away and anyone else on um i guess either and oh i'm jason i i thought we were going

[0:22:39] Voice 18: to go to objective four yeah um so objective four and was that uh we can look at the box first was

[0:22:53] Voice 18: Was that the one you were looking at, Trustee Boland?

[0:22:57] Voice 9: Yes.

[0:22:58] Voice 9: The objective advance is the principle has been removed, which is fine, except that I don't agree with principle 212, limit the rate and scale, and the reference to it.

[0:23:14] Voice 9: So I don't know how we're handling this.

[0:23:17] Voice 9: At some stage, I would like to make a proposal about that principle, which is fundamentally to remove the word limit and change it.

[0:23:27] Voice 9: But, you know, it's embedded throughout the document or has been removed.

[0:23:32] Voice 9: I'm not entirely sure, but it still exists at the top level.

[0:23:35] Voice 9: So how would you like to handle that?

[0:23:38] Voice 9: that um

[0:23:41] Voice 18: i think for the for the hope of getting um through this section today if it's more

[0:23:48] Voice 18: fundamental and if it's a principle i i think i'd like to put that to the side for now and work on

[0:23:54] Voice 18: these uh the policies so we have the box there if there's nothing on the box um in the objective

[0:24:01] Voice 18: box then i'd like us to go down a bit and start looking at the directive policies 3.41 to 3.

[0:24:10] Voice 18: Okay,

[0:24:11] Voice 9: I have something about the description of a directive policy to simplify that language.

[0:24:18] Voice 9: My proposal would be that we go, it's very long-winded.

[0:24:22] Voice 9: Local trust committees and island municipalities shall, in the preparation of community plans and amendments, take out in the preparation of, shall, in official community plans and amendments and in regulatory bylaws and amendments.

[0:24:45] Voice 9: So just shorten that entire sentence. It's very long-winded and convoluted, in my view. I sent it in as an email. Do you want me to raise it?

[0:24:59] Voice 18: Okay, so you're suggesting the removal of the in the preparation of?

[0:25:08] Voice 18: Yes.

[0:25:09] Voice 18: So

[0:25:09] Voice 9: what I would suggest is local trust committees and island municipalities

[0:25:14] Voice 9: shall comment in their official community plans and amendments,

[0:25:20] Voice 9: I think it's a semicolon, and in the regulatory bylaws and amendments, blah, blah.

[0:25:30] Voice 18: Okay.

[0:25:30] Voice 18: Okay. Before I look for a motion on that, I'm going to just look for discussion first, and then we'll come back to you.

[0:25:40] Voice 18: Trustee Getty.

[0:25:43] Voice 14: There's a fundamental difference between the municipalities and the local trust committees with respect to regulatory bylaws and amendments.

[0:25:52] Voice 14: amendments so those are not um ones that the trust uh the regulatory bylaws and amendments

[0:26:00] Voice 14: of the municipality are not ones that the trust has uh jurisdiction over so um if we've got an

[0:26:08] Voice 14: amendment to the official community plan or uh we're working on a new one um then the trust

[0:26:16] Voice 14: council and the executive committee have something to say about that but not our bylaws

[0:26:20] Voice 14: thank you

[0:26:23] Voice 9: for that clarification thank you for that we could just lose the preparation of them

[0:26:27] Voice 9: and just make it a bit smoother okay

[0:26:34] Voice 18: anyone else on this point trusty elliot um

[0:26:40] Voice 6: i object to

[0:26:42] Voice 6: wholesale changing of the headers because i think they have been through legal and they're precise

[0:26:48] Voice 6: and prescriptive for a reason um i'd like to get into the content and if we're going to have a

[0:26:54] Voice 6: discussion on whether limits to growth should be considered. Is that the discussion we want to have

[0:27:01] Voice 6: now or do we want to go through the policies one at a time? I don't think it's useful to micromanage

[0:27:07] Voice 6: or tweak grammar because in the top header sentences, they're there for a reason. Thank you.

[0:27:17] Voice 18: Thank you for that. And before I go to Trustee Fass, I am hoping that we will get into the

[0:27:22] Voice 18: policies. Trustee Fass.

[0:27:24] Trustee Fast: Thank you. I agree with what Trustee Elliott just said. And there's a

[0:27:30] Trustee Fast: whole reason behind the words, in the preparation of, and I suggest we could ask staff about that

[0:27:38] Trustee Fast: if we're going to address it. I prepared to address the content of the trust policy statement,

[0:27:47] Trustee Fast: which is what I thought we were going to be talking about. In the preparation of

[0:27:50] Trustee Fast: uh refers to the entire process the ongoing process and uh rather and it doesn't allow for

[0:28:00] Trustee Fast: excuses like or it doesn't allow for processes that are uh very quick and not transparent

[0:28:09] Trustee Fast: it means that the whole thing shall be uh taken taking place out in the public with these policies

[0:28:17] Trustee Fast: and everything in front anyway i don't think we should discuss it here i think these are

[0:28:22] Trustee Fast: the basic principles and i thought we were here to discuss uh the content and that's what these

[0:28:28] Trustee Fast: committee that of the whole were about and um uh so i don't propose to i think it's good that we're

[0:28:36] Trustee Fast: not going to deal with what is a direct getting rid of directive policies and these things i think

[0:28:42] Trustee Fast: we should get into the content of the boxes thank you

[0:28:47] Voice 18: uh thank you for that um trustee bald and i

[0:28:50] Voice 18: I just want to give you opportunity because I said I would.

[0:28:53] Voice 18: Do you have a resolution you wanted to make on this

[0:28:56] Voice 18: or can we move along?

[0:28:57] Voice 9: I have a resolution, but I don't think it will be supported.

[0:29:00] Voice 9: However, I would actually just like to respond a little bit

[0:29:04] Voice 9: and then we can move on into the content.

[0:29:06] Voice 9: The content is influenced by whether it's a directive policy

[0:29:10] Voice 9: or an advisory policy.

[0:29:13] Voice 9: And sometimes similar things are repeated under directive

[0:29:18] Voice 9: And then again, with a slightly different flavor under advisory. So it ill behoves us to actually not consider the instruction above each policy and each policy in that context. But I'll leave it at that for the moment. Thank you.

[0:29:37] Voice 9: All

[0:29:39] Voice 18: right. Thank you for that. So in that case, let's move on. Is there

[0:29:45] Voice 18: any speakers on policy 3.4.1? I see Trustee Evans.

[0:29:57] Voice 8: Thanks.

[0:30:01] Voice 8: So, in this section, the way that it's worded to ensure that development is compact, energy efficient, and appropriately situated on the island, that section there, appropriately situated on the island and on the site, does that mean that the LTC gets to say where homes can be situated on private land?

[0:30:23] Voice 8: Is that the intent before I carry on?

[0:30:33] Voice 18: Trustee Fader, I see your mic's on.

[0:30:35] Voice 10: Sorry.

[0:30:36] Voice 10: I

[0:30:36] Voice 18: would say

[0:30:42] Voice 10: yes, that is the intention and you certainly have that ability through setbacks and

[0:30:46] Voice 10: so on. But you have acting director Gemma at here, who could probably take that question

[0:30:52] Voice 10: from a planning perspective, if you wished.

[0:30:55] Voice 8: Please, because it will influence my thoughts

[0:30:58] Voice 8: and concerns on this.

[0:31:03] Voice 5: Great. Hi, good afternoon.

[0:31:07] Voice 5: yeah we

[0:31:10] Voice 18: could hear you great

[0:31:11] Voice 5: okay um pardon me can you um can you rephrase that question

[0:31:16] Voice 5: just as I am I'm looking at the information here

[0:31:20] Voice 8: sure so where it says that in the first sentence

[0:31:23] Voice 8: that insured development is compact energy and efficient and then it says appropriately situated

[0:31:28] Voice 8: on the island and on the site so my question there is is this a directive policy at the

[0:31:36] Voice 8: the islands trust council level to make sure that LTCs have the authority to say where a building

[0:31:45] Voice 8: a dwelling is permitted to be built on private land so as because we've had uh we've had this

[0:31:56] Voice 8: conversation with our past trustees where they said we want the authority to say when you come

[0:32:00] Voice 8: for a building permit we will walk your land and we will tell you oh this is the building site that

[0:32:06] Voice 8: you wanted but we don't want you to build there we want you to build back here and we have the

[0:32:10] Voice 8: authority to do that and i'm thinking this is where they got it from so my question is is that

[0:32:16] Voice 8: the intent here because if it is i cannot support this wording and if it's not i think it needs to

[0:32:21] Voice 8: be reworded and clarified through

[0:32:25] Voice 5: the chair the um the islands trust act does give local trust

[0:32:31] Voice 5: trust committees, the authority and ability to regulate development and land use.

[0:32:38] Voice 5: So through your land use bylaws, you can regulate land use, zoning, siting of buildings based

[0:32:45] Voice 5: on your zoning regulations.

[0:32:48] Voice 5: What I maybe don't have enough information at this particular juncture filling in for

[0:32:55] Voice 5: Acting Director Zermack is to speak to the intent of this particular statement, but I can confirm

[0:33:04] Voice 5: it is the local trust committee's ability and authority to regulate land use.

[0:33:10] Voice 8: I understand the ability to regulate land use. What I'm concerned about is, you know, if somebody

[0:33:16] Voice 8: has bought property and it's long and narrow and they want to build down at one end and there is

[0:33:22] Voice 8: no archaeological reason. There's no ecosystem. There's nothing prohibiting them from doing that,

[0:33:28] Voice 8: except that the trustee doesn't want them to build there. They have the authority to say,

[0:33:32] Voice 8: no, we want you to build up by the road. And that is where our island was headed.

[0:33:38] Voice 8: Oh,

[0:33:43] Voice 5: I think trustee Evans has frozen. And I also saw

[0:33:46] Voice 1: a cute first.

[0:33:47] Voice 1: Looks like that.

[0:33:54] Voice 18: Oh, dear. Yes, it does.

[0:33:55] Voice 8: Did I freeze? I think I froze.

[0:33:57] Voice 8: Yes,

[0:33:57] Voice 18: I'm afraid so. We can hear you now.

[0:34:02] Voice 18: Okay.

[0:34:03] Voice 8: And I don't know where you lost me.

[0:34:05] Voice 8: And that's where our island was headed.

[0:34:08] Voice 8: Oh, yes. And I think that's going to be overstepping our jurisdiction to be able

[0:34:14] Voice 8: to turn around to private landowners on their private land and say,

[0:34:18] Voice 8: we don't want you to build here. We want you to build there for no other reason than aesthetics

[0:34:24] Voice 8: or for you know our personal position is and that's that's where we were headed and I'm I'm

[0:34:35] Voice 8: leery of that I think I think I think that's um that that that's a that's overstepping there's

[0:34:43] Voice 8: there's going to be a lot of outcry about that if that's what is intended here so I'd advise caution

[0:34:49] Voice 8: at this level to say that we have the authority to walk onto people's site and say you're permitted

[0:34:56] Voice 8: to build here and not there for no other reason like if there's no other reason like and i see

[0:35:02] Voice 8: other people waving their hands so i'm going to turn this conversation over a little bit see if

[0:35:05] Voice 8: other people have thoughts

[0:35:06] Voice 6: avon grocery orders uh

[0:35:09] Voice 18: thank you for that um i have uh trustee

[0:35:13] Voice 18: getty bernardo and luckham trustee getty

[0:35:17] Voice 14: thanks um i think the three reasons the three bullet

[0:35:21] Voice 14: bullet points below are what the idea is concerned about but you know when anybody on we just had a

[0:35:29] Voice 14: site visit to people that want to build within a setback from the ocean and you know you look at

[0:35:35] Voice 14: the different areas on a bit on a lot that might be available and whether or not you know there's

[0:35:41] Voice 14: concerns and and we get reports from staff in terms of of you know why that why we need to have

[0:35:48] Voice 14: have a, why it's in place in terms of the original setback, for instance. So, you know, to reduce

[0:35:56] Voice 14: dependency on all of these three limits, or three bullet points below, are the, what we're looking

[0:36:03] Voice 14: at in terms of whether or not it's appropriate for someone to build where they want to build.

[0:36:09] Voice 14: And these are the reasons why we can say, you know, that's a wetland, that's, you know, too

[0:36:15] Voice 14: too close to um it's visual in terms of close to the um shoreline or whatever and you start to

[0:36:22] Voice 14: negotiate in terms of you know whether or not in fact there are other possibilities and or

[0:36:28] Voice 14: um you know whether you're going to have an enemy for life i don't know but it seems to me that

[0:36:34] Voice 14: we're limiting ourselves to the mandate of the trust as opposed to personal aesthetics

[0:36:39] Voice 14: aesthetics.

[0:36:44] Voice 18: Thank you. Trustee Bernardo?

[0:36:49] Voice 16: Yeah, I'm in the position of just being as usual puzzled

[0:36:55] Voice 16: about what these things actually mean in practice. And maybe I'm behind the curve here, but

[0:37:06] Voice 16: among other things, I'd like it explained to me what is compact development. I understand

[0:37:15] Voice 16: energy efficient but um what does compact development mean i can guess but i'd like to

[0:37:22] Voice 16: know and i'd like to know why are we elevating that as a value and and please i want to be

[0:37:29] Voice 16: understanding i'm not being critical about this i genuinely don't know what we're talking about

[0:37:34] Voice 16: and i would like to know and it's just you know after i find out what compact means and why it's

[0:37:40] Voice 16: a value or supposed to be a value for us then i can think about it better so that's one question

[0:37:47] Voice 16: and uh around this business about appropriately situated on the island and on the site um

[0:38:02] Voice 16: again what does appropriate mean like what are we trying to achieve like appropriate with respect to

[0:38:09] Voice 16: what type of goal then we do have that list down below but when it says end on the site

[0:38:15] Voice 16: uh you know and this is a very picky question but i i need to know what exactly what's meant

[0:38:22] Voice 16: by appropriately situated on the site does it mean something more than establishing setbacks

[0:38:28] Voice 16: if it does if the idea is we want uh local trust committees to tell people where within setbacks

[0:38:39] Voice 16: they should build. Well, that's a pretty severe limitation of what people can do with their

[0:38:46] Voice 16: properties. And again, I'd like to know what's the justification for that in terms of advancing

[0:38:55] Voice 16: the trust object. And what I have in mind here is I'm just thinking about hypothetical,

[0:38:59] Voice 16: reducing the dependency on private automobile use sounds like a great idea, but what does it

[0:39:06] Voice 16: it actually mean is it means does it mean together with the siting business does it mean that the

[0:39:13] Voice 16: idea is uh some guy who's got some enormous lot uh wants to build a house it's deep in the lot

[0:39:21] Voice 16: so he's going to have to build a driveway that runs like you know a kilometer or something and

[0:39:25] Voice 16: that means he's going to chop down a bunch of trees or whatever the hell he's going to do to

[0:39:28] Voice 16: do that and the local trust committee you know develops it's in you know with this directive

[0:39:33] Voice 16: policy, it doesn't sound like it. It's a question here. Does that mean we would want the local

[0:39:41] Voice 16: trust committee to be developing bylaws that basically tell people how long their driveways

[0:39:48] Voice 16: can be? And if so, what's the justification? I mean, anyhow, that's where I'm at. I'd like

[0:39:59] Voice 16: some more clarity about the intent behind this. And I appreciate we may not be able to get that

[0:40:03] Voice 16: information today since uh director surmatt can't make it thank you okay

[0:40:10] Voice 18: thank you um rpm gemma i

[0:40:13] Voice 18: saw your hand up but now oh there it is again okay great did you want to address that or something

[0:40:17] Voice 18: else um

[0:40:19] Voice 5: through the chair a thought i can add to that conversation about intent is the way we would

[0:40:29] Voice 5: implement this policy statement document so the the objectives further explain

[0:40:38] Voice 5: these directive policies and the implementation plan explains how are we

[0:40:45] Voice 5: going to achieve these actions and these policies that is to say that that would

[0:40:50] Voice 5: be the place where it can be suggested how would we incorporate or achieve

[0:40:56] Voice 5: density limits or that density limit policy impacts to development, whether it's through

[0:41:03] Voice 5: development permit areas, a land use bylaw, etc. So in terms of how, I think I'm hearing the

[0:41:11] Voice 5: question of how would we achieve these policies, I believe that's the place that we would further

[0:41:17] Voice 5: elaborate on that. And I would like to point to maybe Claire or Jason to elaborate if that's the

[0:41:24] Voice 5: the intent of this document so maybe um capturing making sure we capture the policies correctly and

[0:41:31] Voice 5: the objectives knowing that um the how do we do it will still need some more work when we get to

[0:41:39] Voice 5: that stage uh

[0:41:43] Voice 18: thank you for that uh director freighter or pass to jason i'll

[0:41:50] Voice 10: see if policy

[0:41:52] Voice 10: Policy Advisor Eumanns wants to go first as a professional planner.

[0:41:56] Voice 10: If not, I'm happy to take it.

[0:41:58] Voice 10: So one of the pieces, one of the questions being asked here is around implementation of this document.

[0:42:02] Voice 10: You will have seen in the work plan we provided you at council, we're somewhat delayed due to all the staff turnover on this project in providing you with more fulsome information around the implementation piece.

[0:42:11] Voice 10: So some more clarity would likely come through some of that explanation there.

[0:42:16] Voice 10: And I would just say some of this language is politically developed over prior terms of council.

[0:42:20] Voice 10: council so in some cases it's not for staff to tell you the intent i mean i could speculate as

[0:42:25] Voice 10: to what the intent and motives were to particular policies but the end of the day this document is

[0:42:29] Voice 10: to be politically interpreted so if you are unsure as to the clarity or intentions it would be good

[0:42:35] Voice 10: to seek that clarity and refine the language such that it meets you know the will of council and

[0:42:40] Voice 10: what your intentions are for it i know i can recall that in prior working groups of tpc there

[0:42:46] Voice 10: There was discussion about like home plates as being like a good planning tool to have on big, large lots around trying to ensure cottages and driveways and areas were sort of contained within a large lot, such as to allow for more open space.

[0:43:00] Voice 10: But really, I can't speak to all the nuances of how that particular wording got developed within the various working groups.

[0:43:09] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:43:10] Voice 18: Trustee Luckham.

[0:43:12] Voice 13: Yeah, thank you very much, Chair.

[0:43:14] Voice 13: Yeah, to echo Director Frater's word there, there are lots of nuances to this.

[0:43:20] Voice 13: I want to just recognize that Trustee Evans has expressed this concern from a very real, on-the-ground issue associated with previous trustees that had a different interpretation of their authority.

[0:43:37] Voice 13: And the Honest Trust Authority comes through the Local Government Act and through the Honest Trust Act.

[0:43:43] Voice 13: and we do land use planning and through land use planning and zoning um uh the zoning identifies

[0:43:53] Voice 13: appropriate areas that certain kinds of development should happen residential

[0:43:57] Voice 13: perhaps multi-family industrial um otherwise conservation um the land use land use bylaws

[0:44:08] Voice 13: laws are constrained property owners from building on their sites through some very

[0:44:16] Voice 13: clearly defined tools, and that being outside of hazard areas, outside of floodplains, outside

[0:44:26] Voice 13: of setbacks.

[0:44:28] Voice 13: That exists in cities to rural areas, and riparian areas is another exclusion zone.

[0:44:36] Voice 13: And so outside of those exclusion zones, I do not believe there's any limitation to where you might want to place a building or dwelling.

[0:44:45] Voice 13: And certainly in any of those situations, an individual can apply for a variance and make an application.

[0:44:53] Voice 13: And then the LTC would decide based upon the criteria of the restrictions that exist.

[0:44:58] Voice 13: And that's in the land use bylaws of the local trust committees.

[0:45:02] Voice 13: So I think that this is not prescriptively or overly prescriptive in its determination.

[0:45:12] Voice 13: But I think if I was to say, to answer Christina's question, the trustee came on site and said, well, you can't build a house there.

[0:45:19] Voice 13: You got to build it over here instead.

[0:45:21] Voice 13: Instead, with no criteria to support that, that is outside of the intention of the Local Government Act and the Honest Trust Act and all of our land use bylaws and regulations.

[0:45:34] Voice 13: That's my two cents.

[0:45:38] Voice 18: Thank you. I have Graham Evans and Boland next. Trustee Graham.

[0:45:43] Voice 17: Thank you, Chair. All those are worth more than just a few cents there, Peter.

[0:45:48] Voice 17: Peter. You know, individual trustees don't make decisions. It's important that it's the committee

[0:45:56] Voice 17: that makes the decisions. So if a rogue trustee is going from lot to lot telling people where they

[0:46:01] Voice 17: can build, that's just not right. And they certainly don't have the authority to do that.

[0:46:04] Voice 17: On Denman, we don't use the word compact. We use the word clustered. And we've had a number

[0:46:09] Voice 17: of developments that where the local trust committee clustered the development. And it

[0:46:13] Voice 17: was really to protect the natural environment. So I've never seen the word compact before. I

[0:46:18] Voice 17: I think clustered would be a word that we actually use, and it's perhaps a more, a better word.

[0:46:24] Voice 17: That's just my own, that's my, that's my suggestion.

[0:46:27] Voice 17: Thank you.

[0:46:31] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:46:33] Voice 18: Evans, then Boland, and then Fast.

[0:46:36] Voice 8: Thank you.

[0:46:37] Voice 8: I was just going to suggest that.

[0:46:39] Voice 8: So that's awesome.

[0:46:41] Voice 8: Because I think the word clustered is clearer.

[0:46:44] Voice 8: Compact can be interpreted many different ways, as in smaller house size or put together.

[0:46:50] Voice 8: So I would like to recommend that that would be changed to clustered.

[0:46:56] Voice 8: The other thing that I'm thinking of, and again, this is based on real world experience.

[0:47:04] Voice 8: We had our previous LTC was developing building and siting guidelines that would come into effect anytime anyone came with a building permit.

[0:47:14] Voice 8: permit, but at what point they said they would walk the lot and tell you where you were permitted

[0:47:19] Voice 8: to build and what materials you're permitted to build out of and what it had to look like.

[0:47:25] Voice 8: It was very, while it was guidelines, when they said anytime you came for a permit or a variance,

[0:47:32] Voice 8: it would be in effect. So that's how they were getting their authority to do so. And I would

[0:47:38] Voice 8: like to avoid that from happening because that's a little, I think that's overstepping.

[0:47:44] Voice 8: The other thing that I'm looking at here is reduce the dependency on private automobile use. Unfortunately, with us living on islands, that's difficult. But given the following statements, I think that is very reasonable. Support the increased use of trail systems, public transportation and active transportation.

[0:48:02] Voice 8: interpretation um so i don't know how how we can be directed to create bylaws to reduce people's

[0:48:13] Voice 8: use of private automobiles on the islands i'm i'm unclear on how that is feasible what does

[0:48:22] Voice 8: what would that involve so i've got like three things in there um and i i'm happy to come back

[0:48:30] Voice 8: to make a motion to change the word compact to clustered,

[0:48:35] Voice 8: but I'd like to have a little clarity on what is,

[0:48:39] Voice 8: how can we, how through our bylaws can we make people

[0:48:45] Voice 8: reduce their dependency on private automobile use?

[0:48:49] Voice 8: Can somebody clear that up for me?

[0:48:54] Voice 18: Thank you for that.

[0:48:55] Voice 18: I see Jason Yeomans.

[0:49:02] Voice 12: Thank you, Chair Peterson.

[0:49:03] Voice 12: Harrison, just a trustee Evans question there about what local trust committees can do through their land use bylaws to reduce dependency on private automobile use.

[0:49:11] Voice 12: The provincial government right now has been showering local governments with money to develop more complete communities, essentially.

[0:49:20] Voice 12: So this is sort of the current parlance around more compact, more clustered development that gives people the opportunities to live closer to the services that they use every day and reduce the amount of sprawl that's being created.

[0:49:32] Voice 12: in communities in the Gulf Islands and around the province.

[0:49:35] Voice 12: So through your land use bylaw, I think the intention of this policy would be that

[0:49:41] Voice 12: if the Local Trust Committee is contemplating greater opportunities for residential development

[0:49:46] Voice 12: on your island, then that residential development should be centred around the services that people

[0:49:51] Voice 12: use every day in the hopes that perhaps they will choose to bicycle or choose to walk or choose to

[0:49:56] Voice 12: take the bus to those services. Now, of course, we can't tell people that they can't use their

[0:50:01] Voice 12: cars necessarily but there are ways to incentivize or disincentivize automobile use so you'll see

[0:50:06] Voice 12: that other local trust or other communities in the province that perhaps are building at a higher

[0:50:11] Voice 12: density are significantly reducing the amount of parking that they provide to residents of these

[0:50:18] Voice 12: new developments that are going in in the hopes that that will in fact spur them to walk to take

[0:50:23] Voice 12: their bikes to ride the bus so there's ways that such things could be done now on the islands

[0:50:29] Voice 12: particularly where we're talking about single family home development there are limited

[0:50:35] Voice 12: opportunities to do that but under the local government act where multi-family home development

[0:50:41] Voice 12: is being considered one can call upon your development permit areas for multi-family

[0:50:47] Voice 12: construction to control such things as as parking requirements and and reduce them or increase them

[0:50:53] Voice 12: as necessary to hopefully incentivize or disincentivize certain types of behaviors

[0:50:57] Voice 12: years um

[0:51:01] Voice 18: thank you for that um um and trustee evans i'll encourage you to get a a motion for

[0:51:10] Voice 18: recommendation into the motion um email if you want to do that i'm just going to note that we're

[0:51:16] Voice 18: on nearly an hour in we're on the very first um policy and i have trustee boland fast

[0:51:22] Voice 18: bulk and elliot trustee boland i

[0:51:29] Voice 9: just think we are going around in circles and one of the

[0:51:32] Voice 9: the problems is that these are all so-called

[0:51:36] Voice 9: shall directive policies. None of these, all of these

[0:51:40] Voice 9: are very good advisory policies.

[0:51:45] Voice 9: You know, sustainable development,

[0:51:49] Voice 9: please try to ensure development is compact, blah, blah, blah.

[0:51:53] Voice 9: There's nothing wrong with anything in there other than the fact that

[0:51:56] Voice 9: it is a shall, in my view, or for much of it. And I

[0:52:00] Voice 9: I want to know when we can discuss bundling the policies together and removing the directive policy category.

[0:52:09] Voice 9: And if you go and read the organisation of the Islands Trust Act, it describes the role of the local trust committee versus the Islands Trust Council.

[0:52:21] Voice 9: And it is very explicit. It says that the Trust Council is intended to establish the general policies. The Local Trust Committee is intended to regulate the development and use by exercising powers conferred by the Act.

[0:52:38] Voice 9: So I think that the trust council in this trust policy statement needs to do what is requested of it, establish general policies and leave it to the local trust committees to get on with, you know, the detail.

[0:52:55] Voice 9: We are never going to get this trust policy statement over the line.

[0:52:58] Voice 9: Thanks.

[0:53:01] Voice 18: Thank you, Trustee Fass, preferably on 3.4.1.

[0:53:06] Trustee Fast: That's what I'll speak to, Mr. Chair.

[0:53:09] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Tim. I think we, I'm not going to add to the transportation part, except to say that electric vehicles, including electric bicycles and golf carts on some islands, are a game changer in terms of getting around.

[0:53:29] Trustee Fast: I'm speaking to 3.4.1 in terms of the word compact I also would support the idea of changing that to

[0:53:38] Trustee Fast: cluster and that's partly because Bowen Council has considered that word compact when it developed

[0:53:48] Trustee Fast: the concept what we call a conservation development policy which is basically nature needs half and

[0:53:55] Trustee Fast: And 50% of the total land area subject to the rezoning application is protected from further development.

[0:54:00] Trustee Fast: So we've got to the idea of clustering and size, which are both in the word compact.

[0:54:13] Trustee Fast: But perhaps the word clustering might be better.

[0:54:16] Trustee Fast: Anyway, I

[0:54:16] Trustee Fast: think compact or cluster both get at the idea of avoiding sprawl.

[0:54:22] Trustee Fast: and fulfilling our purpose,

[0:54:27] Trustee Fast: which is preserving and protecting the trust area

[0:54:30] Trustee Fast: and its unique amenities and environment

[0:54:32] Trustee Fast: by big areas that are connected to each other for nature

[0:54:35] Trustee Fast: so that you can have housing and nature.

[0:54:39] Trustee Fast: So that's one idea.

[0:54:41] Trustee Fast: I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[0:54:43] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[0:54:46] Voice 18: Okay, Trustee Falk, then Elliot, then Patrick.

[0:54:51] Voice 10: Can I just note we've seen a screen change

[0:54:54] Voice 10: change there okay thank you chair uh

[0:54:59] Voice 2: yeah first I would just uh agree with um Mari about the making

[0:55:04] Voice 2: a general guidance not not must do what's the heading for this section and then I was also

[0:55:11] Voice 2: going to bring up the electric car and but I'll just add one thing to that is that there's probably

[0:55:18] Voice 2: many new alternative forms of vehicles now coming on the online fairly shortly

[0:55:25] Voice 2: so we should use words like non combustible engine cars or something

[0:55:29] Voice 2: like that to allow for you know the variety of various vehicles that will

[0:55:34] Voice 2: come on board if we're going to need that specific at all thank you

[0:55:39] Voice 18: thank you

[0:55:41] Voice 18: I see rpm jam rot Thank

[0:55:46] Voice 5: You chair I am I recognize that there are other

[0:55:49] Voice 5: or trustees with hands up, I just wanted to quickly add must versus shall under the directive

[0:55:56] Voice 5: policies. I recognize here that the statements under the directive policies in the blue box

[0:56:05] Voice 5: are aspects that the Trust Council wants, so must, wants local trust committees to address

[0:56:15] Voice 5: through their official community plans and land use bylaws.

[0:56:19] Voice 5: So perhaps keeping the shells in that blue box

[0:56:23] Voice 5: and then looking at perhaps different kinds of supportive wording

[0:56:30] Voice 5: or wording to implement the sustainable development section

[0:56:34] Voice 5: could be a way to appropriately address how these directive policies are achieved.

[0:56:43] Voice 5: So, for example, sustainable development, it could be support or ensure development policies support compact energy, et cetera, in order to.

[0:56:56] Voice 5: So that gives the opportunity for local trust committees to get that direction through the direct policy that here's what we need to address in our land use bylaws and OCP.

[0:57:07] Voice 5: And that's the direction in the actual policy that we have to work towards.

[0:57:16] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:57:17] Voice 18: Trustee Elliott.

[0:57:21] Voice 6: This is a great conversation.

[0:57:24] Voice 6: I got a little lost in the weeds.

[0:57:26] Voice 6: And so I wanted to pull back and look at another document.

[0:57:32] Voice 6: So I actually looked at the San Juan County's comprehensive plan.

[0:57:36] Voice 6: As we know, our neighbors to the south, they've just finished up a comprehensive plan review.

[0:57:42] Voice 6: view. And so in the policies for managing or for land use, there's a useful one here that I thought

[0:57:49] Voice 6: we could consider. It says, consider site capabilities and existing development patterns

[0:57:57] Voice 6: when determining the land use designation and appropriate locations and intensities

[0:58:03] Voice 6: of various uses of the land. Now, a statement like that, to me, seems broad enough

[0:58:11] Voice 6: that the executive committee could say, have you considered the site capabilities?

[0:58:19] Voice 6: Have you considered, I would actually add the environmental considerations as well,

[0:58:25] Voice 6: and existing development patterns. So what is around that site when determining the land use

[0:58:32] Voice 6: designation? So large rural residential, single family dwelling, and then the appropriate location

[0:58:40] Voice 6: and intensity of various uses of the land. So that to me is a more helpful statement. It asks,

[0:58:50] Voice 6: has the LTC considered and directed the, or to determine the land use designation?

[0:59:01] Voice 6: So that's one piece. Another one that I wanted to suggest, I guess, regarding the density limits

[0:59:10] Voice 6: question and i know there's a lot here uh instead of establish appropriate density limits do we want

[0:59:19] Voice 6: to consider directing density or high density residential and mixed use development into

[0:59:27] Voice 6: certain areas into areas that are already settled already have um lots of development and so how

[0:59:35] Voice 6: how that works out on Gabriola is we've got a village zone. And so the multifamily dwelling

[0:59:43] Voice 6: unit that was just approved, thank you province, can only go within two kilometers of that village

[0:59:49] Voice 6: zone. And so directing residential or high intensity residential mixed use development

[0:59:58] Voice 6: into certain areas.

[1:00:00] Voice 6: areas. We don't have growth containment areas, but those words direct, I think might be helpful

[1:00:07] Voice 6: and to consider site capabilities that might help get us out of the weeds of perhaps like

[1:00:15] Voice 6: ensuring development is or establishing these density limits. So thank you.

[1:00:24] Voice 18: Thank you. Next, I have Trustee Patrick. I see Director Frater. I have my hand up and then

[1:00:30] Voice 18: and Trustee Bernardo. So, Trustee Patrick.

[1:00:33] Trustee Patrick: Well, I want to thank Trustee Elliott because

[1:00:35] Trustee Patrick: that was going to be the opening of my statement here. Our neighbors to the south. And I think we

[1:00:40] Trustee Patrick: keep forgetting about our neighbors to the south and their planning that they've done is extensive.

[1:00:45] Trustee Patrick: They have set containment boundaries. And I think when we heard Planner Yeomans talk about,

[1:00:53] Trustee Patrick: or Planner, I'm sorry, whatever your title is, Mr. Yeomans, you know, he talked about some of

[1:01:00] Trustee Patrick: of the urban type pressure we're getting from the province that have certain you know elements of

[1:01:08] Trustee Patrick: where development can go so i you know i think this is part of our problem is some of the islands

[1:01:14] Trustee Patrick: like maine is nearly built out so it's not much of a conversation there but there are other islands

[1:01:21] Trustee Patrick: that have some very large blocks of land still available so by having just big broad statements

[1:01:26] Trustee Patrick: saying just have them clustered so we have eight village sites now across islands instead of

[1:01:32] Trustee Patrick: directing it to one village area. So I think we're kind of going around, are there or is there an

[1:01:39] Trustee Patrick: appetite to say, no, containment, we want to see development contained and how does that get

[1:01:46] Trustee Patrick: determined? Because the second sort of the density is most of us have zoning that was established in

[1:01:52] Trustee Patrick: 1971 before the Islands Trust even existed. So there wasn't any real careful thought put into

[1:01:59] Trustee Patrick: preserving and protecting the islands in 1971. They just sort of, I don't know how they, I'm

[1:02:04] Trustee Patrick: still trying to figure out how they determined the zoning they did in 1971. So we have density

[1:02:10] Trustee Patrick: limits that say establish something. Well, we already have established density limits across

[1:02:15] Trustee Patrick: our islands. Are they correct? Should they be corrected? Do we need to go back in time? And

[1:02:22] Trustee Patrick: does just establishing density limits is that broad enough to say no that gives me permission

[1:02:27] Trustee Patrick: to go back and think about um you know moving density if it exists in the wrong places so to

[1:02:34] Trustee Patrick: speak and i'm just using that for conversation so that's i think when you know are we meant just to

[1:02:39] Trustee Patrick: be looking at this broadly or are we avoiding doing the work that they've done down in the

[1:02:43] Trustee Patrick: san juans and they have established containment areas there's rural islands parts and there's

[1:02:49] Trustee Patrick: contained where the growth goes and they police that down there development goes into the

[1:02:55] Trustee Patrick: containment areas uh

[1:03:00] Voice 18: thank you director freighter thank

[1:03:05] Voice 10: you chair my i'm my comment is unrelated to

[1:03:08] Voice 10: this particular policy discussion so it might be best to hear from trustee bernardo and then i

[1:03:12] Voice 10: could weigh in okay

[1:03:15] Voice 18: thank you uh i'll go trustee bernardo then i'm gonna go come back to claire

[1:03:20] Voice 18: and then i have a question um for mr marler uh so go ahead trustee bernardo um

[1:03:26] Voice 16: thank you um

[1:03:29] Voice 16: yeah uh first uh yeah i think i i would i would lean towards getting rid of insure and put in

[1:03:38] Voice 16: some sort of language along the lines of consider um the insure thing is a little too directive

[1:03:46] Voice 16: i think uh with all of these things i'm anxious about getting the right balance between um

[1:03:53] Voice 16: Setting direction and maintaining appropriate level of local trust committee discretion and just having this blunt ensure development is compact or clustered energy efficient, et cetera, et cetera, is, you know, that creates a screening requirement on bylaws and OCPs that might be a bit too strenuous.

[1:04:18] Voice 16: So I would appreciate the idea of changing to consider.

[1:04:23] Voice 16: I'd also like to point out that that second bullet is, in fact, completely redundant.

[1:04:27] Voice 16: I mean, that's the existing prime statutory obligation on local trust committees under the statute.

[1:04:36] Voice 16: I mean, it doesn't belong in the trust policy statement, but it's in the statute.

[1:04:40] Voice 16: We're supposed to be doing that.

[1:04:41] Voice 16: So I'm not a fan of having words where you don't need them, believe it or not.

[1:04:48] Voice 16: and uh i would suggest we just take that out it's just not necessary

[1:04:55] Voice 16: uh i'm and i'm and i'm struggling a little bit with the last one which is i think

[1:05:00] Voice 16: that looks like to me something that you know properly speaking should be directive

[1:05:08] Voice 16: but i'm not sure it belongs under sustainable development i i'm going to suggest that we split

[1:05:12] Voice 16: that out and create its own category that this is just something that you know local trust

[1:05:17] Voice 16: committee shall in preparation of bylaws etc limit impacts that's it it's like it's respecting uh

[1:05:24] Voice 16: indigenous cultural heritage it's not it doesn't relate to sustainable development really so i'd

[1:05:30] Voice 16: suggest we separate that out and on this larger question about what are you trying to do with

[1:05:35] Voice 16: appropriately you know when i see that language appropriately situated on the island i wouldn't

[1:05:43] Voice 16: want you know i i as the more i think about it i i think i'd like that to be clarified as

[1:05:50] Voice 16: something to be considered uh uh in the subdivision process i wouldn't want that to

[1:05:58] Voice 16: um somehow work its way into bylaws and end up uh taking away uh existing rights that people

[1:06:08] Voice 16: have under zoning to to you know have their cabins and houses or whatever that they have now

[1:06:13] Voice 16: Now, I could see how for future development with large parcels of land that haven't been subdivided yet, that putting a focus on clustering and appropriate siting where the residential lots would be, I get that part of it.

[1:06:36] Voice 16: I guess I would like it to be the threads a little separated here in the sense that I see that as having utility on the subdivision side, but not on just a sweeping obligation for all regulatory bylaws and amendments. Thanks.

[1:06:55] Voice 18: Thank you, Director Frater. Did you want to make your comment now? And then I have myself and Trustee Evans.

[1:07:04] Voice 10: Thank you, Trustee Peterson. Again, this might not be the right moment, but I'll take it. Just to mention that at some point, Council might want to have a deliberative conversation about the extent to which it wants the policy statement to be directive in nature.

[1:07:20] Voice 10: future. I think under the underpinning of some of these conversations is this tension around how

[1:07:27] Voice 10: directive should this document be around the content of official community plans and land

[1:07:32] Voice 10: use bylaws. So it may be that might be a conversation that you want to have in a

[1:07:36] Voice 10: deliberative way, an approach. I will remind you on the Islands 2050 page, there is a public legal

[1:07:43] Voice 10: opinion. This conversation has been going on for a very long time. The opinion stated, I think,

[1:07:47] Voice 10: uh it's very it's older 2000 so 24 years ago this was a live conversation um around how

[1:07:56] Voice 10: directive this document should be um and bill boo you falls or weighed in at that time with

[1:08:01] Voice 10: an opinion that i believe still stands um he stands still stands by it giving his view of

[1:08:05] Voice 10: how directive this be and what council scope is to be directive um but really it is at trust

[1:08:09] Voice 10: council's discretion um and so that might to avoid some of this debate that might want to

[1:08:14] Voice 10: to be a conversation you have as a body um to then avoid picking at each policy around how

[1:08:19] Voice 10: directive it is you might want to talk about the talk about the document as a whole um with that

[1:08:24] Voice 10: i also heard that there was a request for david marler to weigh in on something so just wanted to

[1:08:29] Voice 10: remind you of that if you still wanted his opinion he is in the meeting now

[1:08:35] Voice 18: uh thank you for that yeah that was me because i have myself next on the speakers list followed

[1:08:41] Voice 18: followed by Evans and Yates.

[1:08:43] Voice 18: So I think Trustee Bernardo identified,

[1:08:47] Voice 18: and this goes well with what we just heard from Director Frater,

[1:08:53] Voice 18: directive policies, we have legislative ability to do that,

[1:08:57] Voice 18: but I think the directive policies versus the discretion of LTCs

[1:09:02] Voice 18: is the essential sort of existential tension and balance

[1:09:07] Voice 18: between trust council and local trust committees

[1:09:12] Voice 18: in terms of how autonomous local trust committees are.

[1:09:17] Voice 18: Now, I just want to point out that when these OCPs come to executive committee,

[1:09:25] Voice 18: we look at the directives checklist to see if it's ticking off the boxes.

[1:09:34] Voice 18: The question I had for Director Marler was in terms of that executive oversight, can you just give us a quick one or two points on the legislative requirements around that aspect of executive and directive policies?

[1:10:00] Voice 11: Yeah, I think I understand the question.

[1:10:02] Voice 11: question um so the legislation just says that the executive committee and trust council um

[1:10:09] Voice 11: they cannot approve a bylaw that is contrary to or at variance with the policy statement

[1:10:16] Voice 11: but it doesn't tell you what that means which means it's up to the political body to make that

[1:10:22] Voice 11: determination so the executive committee gets the first go at interpreting the policy statement

[1:10:29] Voice 11: And we will be developing, by the way, an implementation strategy or policy that council will also get to adopt.

[1:10:39] Voice 11: And that can go a long way into dealing with some of these nuances that you're identifying, such as how do we apply policy 341 when it comes to existing zone lands versus large parcels.

[1:10:55] Voice 11: We can certainly address that in an implementation plan.

[1:11:01] Voice 11: So a lot of these things could be nuanced out that way.

[1:11:05] Voice 11: So the executive committee will have the first go at interpreting what Trust Council meant when it wrote these policies.

[1:11:14] Voice 11: And if the local trust committee disagrees with the executive committee,

[1:11:18] Voice 11: say the executive committee refuses it on the basis they think it's contrary to and explain what they mean by that,

[1:11:26] Voice 11: the local trust committee will then go to trust council and because this is trust council's policy

[1:11:34] Voice 11: trust council will have the final say on how it's interpreted so the council of the day will be

[1:11:41] Voice 11: looking at whatever information is available in the document whatever information is available

[1:11:45] Voice 11: in an implementation policy of council and then we'll use that to adjudicate whether or not they

[1:11:52] Voice 11: they think the trust committee is by law has met this policy and that will be

[1:11:57] Voice 11: the final say, and then the trust committee will have to live with that.

[1:12:01] Voice 11: So I'm not sure if that's your question,

[1:12:04] Voice 11: but that's how it would work with respect to the directive policies.

[1:12:08] Voice 11: So the wording is important. What we mean by insurer needs to be clear.

[1:12:14] Voice 11: So that's a word that's too hard or, you know,

[1:12:18] Voice 11: insurer seems to suggest that you're going to make sure this happens.

[1:12:22] Voice 11: then we can look at different wording that really makes sure that at least the trust committee has put something in its LCP that deals with this issue in some way

[1:12:34] Voice 11: and leave it up to the local trust committee to determine what that looks like based on the specific issues on the island.

[1:12:42] Voice 11: So I'm not sure if I've answered your question there, Chair Peterson.

[1:12:48] Voice 18: Okay, so just a quick follow up, and I promise this will be it.

[1:12:51] Voice 18: um so what i think i hear you saying is that the legislation says that the ocp for example

[1:12:58] Voice 18: needs to be in conformance with a policy statement and despite the fact that uh present

[1:13:04] Voice 18: practices is using the directive policy checklist that's not the end all be all it's that it has to

[1:13:11] Voice 18: be deemed in compliance with the policy statement yeah

[1:13:14] Voice 11: that's correct um okay yeah actually staff

[1:13:18] Voice 11: Staff have identified that the current checklist system is inadequate and will be recommending a different system that allows the planner with the local trust committee to explain a little bit more about how they've addressed it and why they think it meets the policy statement.

[1:13:36] Voice 11: and then that gives the executive and possibly council a little bit more insight into the

[1:13:43] Voice 11: thinking on the island and they might then say yeah okay we agree or they could still disagree

[1:13:49] Voice 11: but it gives them that information okay

[1:13:52] Voice 18: thank you and i apologize to to council for taking us out

[1:13:56] Voice 18: in the weeds there but i thought that might be helpful to have that information under our belt

[1:14:00] Voice 18: before we continue uh so i have evans yates yates and elliot next so trustee evans um

[1:14:07] Voice 8: i was going to

[1:14:08] Voice 8: make a request of the chair could we do um real time edits and then later on do a single motion

[1:14:16] Voice 8: per each of the boxes to pass like we did in the previous one rather than having to send every

[1:14:21] Voice 8: single thing through as a motion because i think that's going to take a lot of time with that with

[1:14:26] Voice 8: Would that work? And if it would, then I'd like to make some suggestions.

[1:14:31] Voice 18: At the will of the committee, of course, I was hoping that if folks had specific wording they prepared in advance,

[1:14:40] Voice 18: then sending it through motions gets it on the screen and then we don't have to have a staff person trying to do live lifetime wordsmithing.

[1:14:50] Voice 18: But it's not a hard and fast rule.

[1:14:53] Voice 18: so if you have a recommendation um and then i do see two more hands so go ahead trustee evans

[1:15:04] Voice 18: so

[1:15:05] Voice 8: i've got i've got one um motion in regarding the word compact but um i do agree with and i

[1:15:11] Voice 8: can't remember who stated it the second bullet i think that's redundant the whole the whole policy

[1:15:17] Voice 8: has to be compatible with the preservation and protection of the trust area not just the

[1:15:22] Voice 8: development everything like that's that's a redundant statement so i'd like to request that

[1:15:26] Voice 8: that that statement be removed and then um the third bullet limits impacts on indigenous

[1:15:33] Voice 8: culture i think that belongs in 3.4.3 impacts of development okay

[1:15:44] Voice 18: and i think that um

[1:15:46] Voice 18: the request i heard from you was just to have staff note these down and then if possible we

[1:15:54] Voice 18: can just do one recommendation is that what i heard you recommending well

[1:15:58] Voice 8: um when we were in

[1:15:59] Voice 8: trust council meeting we were we were doing um redlined edits like on the screen and i'll just

[1:16:10] Voice 18: look to staff because i i don't want to um demand out of staff uh anything they're not

[1:16:16] Voice 18: prepared to do so is that suggestion amenable i see uh mr yeomans uh

[1:16:23] Voice 12: certainly chair peterson

[1:16:24] Voice 12: we can make those red line changes on the screen as they're happening i guess my question would be

[1:16:29] Voice 12: when it comes time to call a vote uh are you planning to bundle all of those red line changes

[1:16:35] Voice 12: together and what happens if you know trustees object to one of them and not others so it in in

[1:16:42] Voice 12: putting them all together i'm just not sure how the how the vote will work

[1:16:47] Voice 18: yeah i mean certainly

[1:16:48] Voice 18: we could we could sever them if that was the case but uh um do you have anything ready to go

[1:16:55] Voice 18: trustee evans at this point

[1:16:57] Voice 8: well i i sent it in a while ago so i'm not sure if it was being received

[1:17:01] Voice 8: or not okay

[1:17:03] Voice 18: could we see if we could get that up on the screen then sure let me just unshare and

[1:17:08] Voice 12: allow somebody else the ability i

[1:17:19] Voice 16: i don't know if this is a point of order a point of privilege

[1:17:21] Voice 16: it's not a comment about any of the legislation it's just about the immediate process we're going

[1:17:26] Voice 16: through here which is if we're gonna make edits on the fly um mr yeomans has actually made a good

[1:17:32] Voice 16: point which is it gets kind of weird near the end if you've collected all these red lines and then

[1:17:36] Voice 16: suddenly people start objecting at the end of it when they're hoping for an omnibus motion

[1:17:41] Voice 16: so i would think the practical way to proceed is to uh people propose red lines and if somebody

[1:17:48] Voice 16: objects to them they need to speak up now because there's no consensus yeah

[1:17:53] Voice 18: no i i agree and and i

[1:17:55] Voice 18: I think if someone objects, then we'll do a vote as we go along.

[1:18:00] Voice 18: Yeah.

[1:18:01] Voice 18: Okay.

[1:18:01] Voice 18: That way we'll avoid getting into an omnibus that only parts are supported.

[1:18:06] Voice 18: Okay.

[1:18:07] Voice 18: So, Trustee Evans, can you see that?

[1:18:12] Voice 8: Yep.

[1:18:13] Voice 18: Okay.

[1:18:14] Voice 18: Would you – let's just make this real simple.

[1:18:18] Voice 18: I see a bunch of hands up.

[1:18:20] Voice 8: And

[1:18:21] Voice 18: I'm going to say – if

[1:18:22] Voice 8: I can interrupt, it's incorrect.

[1:18:24] Voice 8: correct. I was not recommending to strike the first and the third bullet. I was recommending

[1:18:29] Voice 8: to strike the second bullet. The second bullet is the one that is moot.

[1:18:36] Voice 18: Okay. And while that

[1:18:38] Voice 18: happens, I'm just going to go to Director Frater. Yates, Elliot, and Luckum, I see all of your hands

[1:18:46] Voice 18: up. So Director Frater.

[1:18:50] Voice 10: My comment was simply around just as you consider the way in which

[1:18:53] Voice 10: you want to handle your motions there um certainly seems to be high level of public interest in this

[1:18:59] Voice 10: process by bundling together a motion that said please make all changes that were on screen during

[1:19:04] Voice 10: the meeting might be challenging for the public to interpret it is at your discretion um but it

[1:19:09] Voice 10: might be something for you to contemplate how transparent you want your minute taking to be

[1:19:12] Voice 10: in terms of the decisions around the document thank

[1:19:16] Voice 18: you i i think it'd be best to just do these

[1:19:19] Voice 18: as we go and then we don't have um uh i think it'll make the process quicker and simpler uh okay

[1:19:26] Voice 18: so i'm just going to wait for that to come back on screen trust the evans is that your intent

[1:19:32] Voice 8: yes

[1:19:32] Voice 18: okay do you want to make a recommendation or a motion to that effect sure

[1:19:38] Voice 8: um i move that

[1:19:40] Voice 8: the wording be changed as uh as as it's on the screen i don't know how else to say it

[1:19:47] Voice 8: chair

[1:19:51] Voice 10: if i might yes

[1:19:52] Voice 18: um

[1:19:53] Voice 10: a resolution such as that could be that um committee of the whole recommend

[1:19:58] Voice 10: to exact or to executive committee or trust council that the policy statement draft policy

[1:20:05] Voice 10: 3.4.1 be amended by and then you would continue to say something like you know replace the word

[1:20:11] Voice 10: compact with clustered and delete the content of the second bullet that that i think is a structure

[1:20:18] Voice 10: sure that might work okay

[1:20:20] Voice 18: that that seems reasonable does that seem reasonable to you

[1:20:22] Voice 18: trustee evans sure

[1:20:23] Voice 8: i can give that a go um uh like like uh she said um okay that the committee

[1:20:33] Voice 8: of the whole recommend that the first sentence in the directive policy 3.4.1 of the draft policy

[1:20:37] Voice 8: statement replace the word compact with the word clustered and that the second bullet be struck

[1:20:42] Voice 8: struck out and the third bullet moved to a 3.4.3. Thank you.

[1:20:48] Voice 18: Okay, that's the intention. Now I have

[1:20:51] Voice 18: three hands up. I'm going to keep you guys on the speaker's list. That's Yates, Elliot,

[1:20:56] Voice 18: and Getty. And I'm going to look for a seconder for the motion that we have in front of us.

[1:21:08] Voice 18: Elliot or Getty, are you seconding? Oh,

[1:21:11] Voice 1: I see Trustee Bernardo. I'll second it.

[1:21:14] Voice 18: Okay, so Elliot

[1:21:15] Voice 18: Elliot and Geddy, I have you to come back to after we're done with this motion.

[1:21:19] Voice 18: If you wish to speak to the motion, Trustee Elliot.

[1:21:26] Voice 6: I do, in that I have an entirely different suggestion for how this policy could read.

[1:21:35] Voice 6: So I do support the intent of this amended motion in that it is cleaner.

[1:21:47] Voice 6: i was just going i had sent something into to motion about just different wording so

[1:21:55] Voice 6: maybe we can vote on this that and then return to um another idea okay

[1:22:05] Voice 18: um on the motion trustee

[1:22:09] Voice 18: getty you're muted all

[1:22:21] Voice 14: right sorry i thought i unmuted so um i have problems with the um

[1:22:26] Voice 14: the third bullet being moved.

[1:22:28] Voice 14: And I think there's a couple of comments

[1:22:31] Voice 14: I'd like to make about that.

[1:22:34] Voice 14: But the first part in terms of changing compact to clustered

[1:22:37] Voice 14: and removing the second bullet is fine.

[1:22:40] Voice 14: Can we amend and have a different?

[1:22:42] Voice 18: You could request to sever.

[1:22:46] Voice 14: I would like to sever.

[1:22:49] Voice 14: And I'll look.

[1:22:51] Voice 11: Yeah, if I may, it's division

[1:22:53] Voice 11: because you're creating two.

[1:22:54] Voice 11: Oh, division, okay.

[1:22:55] Voice 11: Yeah, severing

[1:22:57] Voice 18: is just part of the

[1:22:57] Voice 11: first part, yeah.

[1:23:00] Voice 18: Okay, so we would sever after out.

[1:23:05] Voice 18: Is that your intent, Trustee Getty?

[1:23:07] Voice 14: Yeah, I can't see the full motion, but I think so.

[1:23:12] Voice 18: Okay, and so procedurally, the motion to sever would take place now, Mr. Marler?

[1:23:20] Voice 11: Yeah, correct.

[1:23:21] Voice 18: You need a seconder then.

[1:23:22] Voice 11: I

[1:23:23] Voice 18: look for a seconder on motion to sever. And since there are hands up already, I see. Okay. Trustee Getty, motion

[1:23:32] Voice 1: to sever. Oh,

[1:23:33] Voice 18: Trustee Elliott, seconding the motion to sever. Okay. So, Elliott and Fast, I have your hands up on the main motion and Yates, I believe, but on the motion to sever.

[1:23:47] Voice 18: Sever. Are any of you wanting to speak on the motion to sever? Trustee Elliott, no?

[1:23:56] Voice 18: Trustee Fast, on the motion to sever?

[1:23:59] Trustee Fast: I think it's a good idea. I'll be voting in favor

[1:24:02] Trustee Fast: to sever.

[1:24:03] Voice 18: Okay. Excuse me. Yes. Sorry. Trustee Luck, I'm on the motion to sever.

[1:24:12] Voice 13: Yeah, just for the minutes and the record, I think I heard David say that it should be

[1:24:18] Voice 13: divide not sever yeah

[1:24:20] Voice 11: if i may uh if you're just going to take out the wording and then just

[1:24:24] Voice 11: consider the one resolution then it would be sever if you wanted to create two separate

[1:24:29] Voice 11: resolutions then it would be divided i think in this case intent was just to remove the wording

[1:24:35] Voice 11: and consider it as a single resolution which is the first part no

[1:24:39] Voice 18: okay uh on the motion to sever

[1:24:44] Voice 18: trustee bernardo yeah

[1:24:46] Voice 16: i wasn't seconding it uh i um i you know i guess after somebody seconds it

[1:24:52] Voice 16: i i'd like to have some discussion on it because it just seems to me that's

[1:24:56] Voice 18: that's what that's

[1:24:58] Voice 18: where we are now we're on the moat on the motion to sever trustee why

[1:25:02] Voice 16: it's a motion to divide

[1:25:07] Voice 16: okay i mean well mr barbara's told us that about a half a dozen times now

[1:25:11] Voice 16: Yeah, I

[1:25:12] Voice 16: will. He said if

[1:25:13] Voice 18: we're taking it, if we're ending it at out, as it says on the screen, then it would be sever. If it's making two motions out of it, then it's divide. Anything more on the motion in front of us, which is to sever?

[1:25:33] Voice 1: I believe the intent

[1:25:34] Trustee Fast: was to divide.

[1:25:35] Trustee Fast: I think that I would second Judy Getty's motion,

[1:25:40] Trustee Fast: Trustee Getty's motion, if it says to divide the above motion,

[1:25:43] Trustee Fast: because I don't want to leave that above motion sitting there.

[1:25:46] Trustee Fast: I think we're going to come back to it.

[1:25:48] Trustee Fast: Okay.

[1:25:50] Voice 18: Can we go back to the mover, which is Trustee Getty?

[1:25:54] Voice 14: Okay.

[1:25:55] Voice 18: Trustee Getty,

[1:25:56] Voice 14: did you want to

[1:25:57] Voice 18: make two motions out of this,

[1:25:58] Voice 18: or did you want to sever it?

[1:25:59] Voice 14: I think it should be two motions, because we've talked about

[1:26:02] Voice 14: okay

[1:26:02] Voice 18: so to divide all

[1:26:05] Voice 14: right okay

[1:26:07] Voice 18: so now that we've got the nomenclature

[1:26:12] Voice 8: seconder's not showing yet elliot seconded it thank you yeah

[1:26:19] Voice 18: okay we are all happy where we're

[1:26:24] Voice 18: at here so we're now dividing this into two motions and on the motion to divide any further

[1:26:31] Voice 18: the speakers or can we move to the question let's move to the question all those in favor of

[1:26:40] Voice 18: dividing please raise your hands well point

[1:26:43] Voice 18: of order

[1:26:44] Voice 16: yes i had stated before that i was hoping

[1:26:49] Voice 16: we'd have some discussion of this uh and uh i'm sorry chair but you're racing a little fast for

[1:26:55] Voice 16: me here uh if if other trustees ahead of me don't have something to say about it uh i mean in fact

[1:27:03] Voice 16: I actually have nothing to say about it.

[1:27:04] Voice 16: I'd like to know what the reason is that Frusty Getty has for this.

[1:27:08] Voice 16: That's all.

[1:27:09] Voice 16: Because I don't have a rationale as to why we're dividing it.

[1:27:14] Voice 18: Okay.

[1:27:15] Voice 18: I did ask for speakers on the motion to divide,

[1:27:19] Voice 18: although I did say separate, but sorry about that.

[1:27:23] Voice 18: So any speakers on the motion to divide?

[1:27:30] Voice 14: Shall I?

[1:27:32] Voice 18: Please, if you would like.

[1:27:34] Voice 14: All right.

[1:27:35] Voice 14: So I had the original policy in front of me a minute ago.

[1:27:39] Voice 14: I've got a bunch of screens going on here that aren't helpful, but we have a previous section that has to do with, I believe it's two, that has to do with cultural heritage sites.

[1:27:54] Voice 14: And the wording in that is consider on two directive policies.

[1:28:02] Voice 14: And then the one that Trustee, sorry, Christina is talking about is to put this in with the one later down, number three here.

[1:28:19] Voice 14: And I think that there's a broader conversation in terms of to limit, to consider, or to ensure, I think, are the wordings that we need to sort out in terms of protecting cultural heritage sites.

[1:28:36] Voice 18: Okay, thank you for that.

[1:28:39] Voice 18: Trustee Yates on the motion to divide.

[1:28:46] Voice 18: Trustee Fast on the motion to divide.

[1:28:48] Voice 18: Otherwise, please put your hands down.

[1:28:50] Trustee Fast: Do I lose my spot in the speakers list?

[1:28:52] Trustee Fast: uh

[1:28:53] Voice 18: we're gonna what i have the previous speakers list from before the motion we're on the motion

[1:28:59] Voice 18: to divide if you're not speaking to the motion divide please put your hand down then we're

[1:29:04] Voice 18: going to go to the vote after trustee bernardo go ahead trustee bernardo thank

[1:29:08] Voice 16: you um i'm going

[1:29:09] Voice 16: to vote against the motion because i don't think it's necessary um in that uh if we simply just

[1:29:16] Voice 16: move it to 3.4.3 that doesn't eliminate or restrict our ability that to fiddle with the

[1:29:24] Voice 16: wording when we get to 3.4.3 so that when we're talking about heritage sites and that sort of

[1:29:32] Voice 16: thing we could use the word consider or we could use the word ensure we can make it as direct as

[1:29:38] Voice 16: which we want uh if we move it to 3.4.3 nothing about moving it um decides what 3.4.3 will look

[1:29:47] Voice 16: like at the end of the piece the way i see it it just belongs there uh so we can sort it out later

[1:29:54] Voice 16: thank you

[1:29:56] Voice 18: okay anything further on the motion

[1:30:00] Voice 18: divide not seeing any i'll call the question all those in favor on the motion to divide

[1:30:07] Voice 18: please raise your hands i

[1:30:12] Voice 11: see seven hands up i see eight now sir eight okay

[1:30:20] Voice 18: and that looks to have stabilized hands down please and opposed to the motion to divide

[1:30:27] Voice 18: please raise your hands i see three opposed uh including trustee bernardo's physical hand

[1:30:41] Voice 18: and so that carries all right so we've got uh divided motion then so the first one

[1:30:51] Voice 18: let's um can we just go to the uh to the question on the first motion there trustee fast do you have

[1:31:02] Voice 18: a comment yes thank

[1:31:05] Trustee Fast: you i just want to uh can i speak yes

[1:31:11] Voice 18: go ahead um

[1:31:13] Trustee Fast: i uh i'll be voting against

[1:31:15] Trustee Fast: this motion because uh the word compact means more than clustered it also means smaller in size

[1:31:24] Trustee Fast: as i was trying to say earlier and uh the word clustered means uh gathered but it doesn't

[1:31:33] Trustee Fast: necessarily mean smaller in size i support the original word uh compact thank you and i don't

[1:31:39] Trustee Fast: have any problem

[1:31:40] Trustee Fast: with the second bullet thank

[1:31:43] Voice 18: you trustee yates on the motion thank

[1:31:46] Voice 3: you so much

[1:31:47] Voice 3: chair peterson and i'm sorry i have to keep turning my video off it's pretty sketchy um that's okay

[1:31:53] Voice 3: exactly as trustee fast has stated i will be voting against this because not every development

[1:32:01] Voice 3: we're talking about is a housing development.

[1:32:03] Voice 3: Sometimes there are small commercial nodes

[1:32:06] Voice 3: that because of water availability,

[1:32:10] Voice 3: septic problems,

[1:32:13] Voice 3: they can be compact,

[1:32:15] Voice 3: but they cannot necessarily be clustered.

[1:32:17] Voice 3: And it does have a very different meaning.

[1:32:20] Voice 3: So I definitely want to keep the word compact.

[1:32:24] Voice 3: Thank you.

[1:32:27] Voice 18: All right.

[1:32:28] Voice 18: Anything else on the motion?

[1:32:29] Voice 18: I see Trustee Evans and Patrick.

[1:32:33] Voice 8: I guess, so if we're having this conversation, perhaps the wording in general needs to be

[1:32:39] Voice 8: changed if it's not working.

[1:32:43] Voice 8: The other thing is, as long as it's saying compact, then the housing gets smaller and

[1:32:49] Voice 8: smaller and smaller.

[1:32:50] Voice 8: And right now we are so compact that the next one who comes in, if they're directed to make

[1:32:55] Voice 8: it compact, at what point does it stop?

[1:33:01] Voice 18: Thank you.

[1:33:02] Voice 18: Trustee Patrick?

[1:33:03] Voice 18: Patrick?

[1:33:04] Trustee Patrick: Compact does not necessarily mean small. The definition is that it's neatly packed together

[1:33:09] Trustee Patrick: dense, and it uses the example, a compact cluster of houses. How do you like that for the Oxford

[1:33:16] Trustee Patrick: Dictionary? Just to say clustered is just a group of similar things. So I think compact is the

[1:33:23] Trustee Patrick: correct term that we're using, and it's common in land use planning.

[1:33:31] Voice 18: Thank you for that. Anything

[1:33:33] Voice 18: Anything further on the motion?

[1:33:35] Voice 18: Is that something new for me, Trustee Evans?

[1:33:37] Voice 18: No.

[1:33:37] Voice 18: Okay.

[1:33:37] Voice 18: Anything further on the motion?

[1:33:40] Voice 18: Not seeing any.

[1:33:41] Voice 18: I'll call the question.

[1:33:42] Voice 18: Raise your hands, please, if you're in favor of the motion.

[1:33:50] Voice 11: I see three hands up on line.

[1:33:54] Voice 11: Okay.

[1:33:55] Voice 11: Thank you.

[1:33:56] Voice 18: And hands down, please.

[1:33:59] Voice 18: And those opposed to the motion, please raise your hands.

[1:34:11] Voice 11: I see nine.

[1:34:13] Voice 11: I have to.

[1:34:14] Voice 18: Okay.

[1:34:14] Voice 11: I don't know how many people, how many trustees are in the meeting.

[1:34:18] Voice 11: i came in late um so that's nine against three in favor i don't know i count

[1:34:25] Voice 11: i count four

[1:34:25] Voice 18: i count

[1:34:27] Voice 18: 14 um on the list here okay so that would fail look at your spent list okay yeah i'm okay

[1:34:33] Voice 18: so

[1:34:37] Voice 18: the motion fails um now we have uh the second um motion since we divided them so that is moving

[1:34:47] Voice 18: Moving the third bullet to 3.4.3.

[1:34:51] Voice 18: Discussion on this motion.

[1:34:54] Voice 18: Trustee Boland?

[1:35:01] Voice 18: Okay, so no.

[1:35:02] Voice 18: Any discussion?

[1:35:04] Voice 18: I'm not seeing any.

[1:35:05] Voice 18: So we'll call the question on moving the third bullet to 3.4.3.

[1:35:11] Voice 18: All those in favor?

[1:35:21] Voice 18: I see nine.

[1:35:23] Voice 18: Okay.

[1:35:24] Voice 18: And Trustee Bernardo has his physical hand up, so that's 10.

[1:35:28] Voice 18: Hands down, please.

[1:35:30] Voice 18: and then

[1:35:33] Voice 18: oh that's me

[1:35:34] Voice 18: and then those opposed

[1:35:36] Voice 18: I

[1:35:40] Voice 11: don't see any so that should carry

[1:35:41] Voice 11: so

[1:35:42] Voice 18: that one carries

[1:35:43] Voice 18: okay so

[1:35:45] Voice 18: are we ready to move on

[1:35:48] Voice 18: is there anything further

[1:35:50] Voice 18: on

[1:35:52] Voice 18: 3.1

[1:35:54] Voice 18: 3.4.1

[1:35:55] Voice 18: I see

[1:35:58] Voice 18: Trustee Evans

[1:36:00] Voice 18: Boland and Elliot

[1:36:02] Voice 18: point of order

[1:36:04] Voice 7: We had a speaker's list

[1:36:06] Voice 7: before, and I kept track.

[1:36:09] Voice 18: You know what,

[1:36:09] Voice 18: you're absolutely right, and I have it here.

[1:36:12] Voice 18: And that was actually Yates, Elliott, that was Yates, Elliott, Getty, and then so I have Evans and Boland on top of that.

[1:36:21] Voice 18: So Yates, and then Elliott, then Getty, then Evans, and Boland.

[1:36:26] Voice 3: I already spoke, and it was with regard to the word compact.

[1:36:30] Voice 3: Thank you very much.

[1:36:32] Voice 18: Okay, Trustee Elliott.

[1:36:34] Voice 18: yet okay

[1:36:38] Voice 6: so i have um a suggested amendment to motion or policy 3.4.1 3.4.2 uh which i sent in

[1:36:53] Voice 6: and so um would you be able to put that whole thing up laurie it's a bit long and frankly i

[1:37:03] Voice 6: board from San Juan County's comprehensive plan. The language is better, cleaner, and I believe

[1:37:12] Voice 6: it would support the development of official community plans and bylaws. So we're getting

[1:37:24] Voice 6: lost in the weeds, I believe, because 3.4.1, there is no real good definition for sustainable

[1:37:30] Voice 6: development. And what kind of development are we talking about? Industrial, commercial,

[1:37:34] Voice 6: commercial, residential, there's a lot there. And then it ties it into transportation, which I

[1:37:40] Voice 6: don't, you know, there's a whole transportation and policy section down below, which we haven't

[1:37:45] Voice 6: gotten to yet. And so I think any directive policies on transportation that support active

[1:37:50] Voice 6: transportation should go down there. What I would suggest instead, the wording, this entire policy

[1:37:59] Voice 6: c 3.4.1 be amended to consider site capability so citing and use this is the job right consider

[1:38:07] Voice 6: site capabilities what is the land capable of supporting environmental and protected areas

[1:38:13] Voice 6: and existing development patterns when determining the land use designation

[1:38:18] Voice 6: and appropriate locations and intensities of various uses of the land so this would require

[1:38:25] Voice 6: that the local trust committee has considered these three elements we could wordsmith it if

[1:38:31] Voice 6: you want um you have to look at context you have to look at the environment and you have to look

[1:38:36] Voice 6: at what the site offers so that is one for one offering we can vote on it separately um i do

[1:38:44] Voice 6: believe that indigenous cultural heritage should be there should be a limit rather than a

[1:38:52] Voice 6: consideration so I don't know I think this should be a separate policy that

[1:38:57] Voice 6: ensuring development limits impacts to on indigenous cultural heritage

[1:39:03] Voice 6: harvesting and hunting areas that is a whole separate policy if that's not

[1:39:08] Voice 6: addressed in your official community plan there should be a good reason why

[1:39:11] Voice 6: and then there's a suggestion for an advisory policy down below and I realize

[1:39:17] Voice 6: this is a lot uh where did i go here you could scroll down again a little bit

[1:39:27] Voice 6: um that development ideally should support reduced dependency on private automobile use

[1:39:33] Voice 6: and support increased use of trail systems public transportation and active transportation that

[1:39:38] Voice 6: looks to me that could be a good advisory policy um and then when we get into 3.4.2 density limits

[1:39:46] Voice 6: limits um i put in some different wording manage community growth and its associated impacts by

[1:39:55] Voice 6: directing high density residential and mixed use development into appropriate locations

[1:40:01] Voice 6: to prevent sprawl and relieve growth pressure in the surrounding rural areas and to help safeguard

[1:40:07] Voice 6: protected area networks or environmentally sensitive areas whatever the language is

[1:40:13] Voice 6: so it's it is about managing growth that is the entire job um putting limits to growth is

[1:40:23] Voice 6: is a bigger conversation that i i do think this council needs to have i believe this kind of

[1:40:31] Voice 6: language gets us on the path at least we're responsible for managing that we already know

[1:40:37] Voice 6: that can we handle limiting it and would that put an onerous burden on local trust committees

[1:40:43] Voice 6: um to define what is an appropriate limit um i've said this before um talking about

[1:40:53] Voice 6: limits kind of ends up talking about population control how many people are allowed on the island

[1:40:59] Voice 6: whereas what we want to do is direct um the growth that is happening to appropriate areas and we want

[1:41:07] Voice 6: to manage uh community growth and its impacts so i submit these as suggestions happy for anybody to

[1:41:14] Voice 6: wordsmith it and um look forward to your input thank you okay

[1:41:20] Voice 18: thank you it looks like uh

[1:41:21] Voice 18: potentially four uh resolutions to me um before we do that though i do have uh some speakers so

[1:41:29] Voice 18: i'm gonna go yates evans bernardo and then we'll see if um someone would like to turn

[1:41:34] Voice 18: and any of those into motions so trustee yates thank

[1:41:38] Voice 3: you chair peterson and thank you toby for

[1:41:40] Voice 3: those suggestions i too have been following the san juan county commissioner's work and i agree

[1:41:46] Voice 3: with all of what trustee elliott has just proposed um and i'll leave it to someone else to make

[1:41:53] Voice 3: motions out of those thank

[1:41:56] Voice 18: you for that trustee evans thanks

[1:42:00] Voice 8: i'm just switching my video off

[1:42:01] Voice 8: because I'm losing internet quite a bit.

[1:42:05] Voice 8: So

[1:42:05] Voice 1: I missed what Yates

[1:42:06] Voice 8: said in its entirety.

[1:42:08] Voice 8: So I apologize if I'm repeating anything.

[1:42:12] Voice 8: I quite like the wording that's suggested.

[1:42:17] Voice 8: So I'd be happy to move that motion,

[1:42:19] Voice 8: but I will give the floor to other speakers

[1:42:22] Voice 8: and then put my hand back up again.

[1:42:26] Voice 18: Okay, thank you for that.

[1:42:27] Voice 18: I'll go to Trustee Bernardo.

[1:42:28] Voice 18: Trustee Yates, your hand is still up.

[1:42:30] Voice 18: I'm not sure if that's intentional.

[1:42:32] Voice 18: but we'll go to trustee bernardo and then we'll look to see if someone's ready to make a motion

[1:42:36] Voice 18: trustee bernardo thank

[1:42:38] Voice 16: you i mean uh and

[1:42:40] Voice 18: then trustee elliot sorry go ahead yeah i think

[1:42:45] Voice 16: trustee elliot has nailed it here i mean on all three points um so uh we've discussed this and i

[1:42:52] Voice 16: think i think the smart thing is to take them one at a time so people can discuss these things but

[1:42:57] Voice 16: But with respect to the very first one, you know, the amendment considers site capabilities, et cetera, et cetera.

[1:43:03] Voice 16: I think that really does capture the tenor of the discussion we had today.

[1:43:10] Voice 16: And I look forward to voting in support of it.

[1:43:14] Voice 16: And I'll leave it to Trustee Elliott or somebody else to move it.

[1:43:18] Voice 16: Thank you.

[1:43:20] Voice 18: Okay.

[1:43:21] Voice 18: Thank you.

[1:43:22] Voice 18: I see Trustee Elliott and then Trustee Evans.

[1:43:24] Voice 18: Trustee Elliott, are you going to make a motion?

[1:43:27] Voice 7: No, it's my motion.

[1:43:28] Voice 7: Point of order, Chair. I literally said emotions. So I'd like to

[1:43:34] Voice 18: be given the

[1:43:35] Voice 7: opportunity to make

[1:43:36] Voice 7: a motion.

[1:43:37] Voice 18: I just said, are you going to make a motion? Please go ahead.

[1:43:42] Voice 7: Yes. I thought you deferred to Trustee Evans. I'm sorry.

[1:43:46] Voice 18: No, sir. No, ma'am. I said you.

[1:43:51] Voice 7: all right

[1:43:51] Voice 6: thank you um so i move that the committee of the whole recommends policy 3.4.1

[1:44:01] Voice 6: and because it's all been amended um uh do i need to read it for the amended policy 3.4.1

[1:44:09] Voice 6: if

[1:44:10] Voice 11: i may i would just say that committee of the whole recommends to executive committee that

[1:44:15] Voice 11: policy 3.4.1 be amended to read and then in quotes consider site capabilities environmental

[1:44:22] Voice 11: and protected areas and existing development

[1:44:25] Voice 11: patterns yeah okay thank

[1:44:26] Voice 6: you that's exactly it

[1:44:28] Voice 6: um so i move that committee of the whole recommends to executive committee that policy 3.4.1 be

[1:44:35] Voice 6: amended to read consider site capabilities environmental and protected areas and existing

[1:44:41] Voice 6: development patterns when determining the land use designation and appropriate locations and

[1:44:47] Voice 6: intensities of various uses of the land excellent

[1:44:51] Voice 18: so move trustee luckham is your hand up to second

[1:44:54] Voice 6: uh

[1:44:59] Voice 18: moved and seconded uh any discussion on the motion trustee luckham you're muted sir

[1:45:09] Voice 18: yeah

[1:45:11] Voice 13: so i am challenged um by what i see on the screen because the preface was is not what we

[1:45:20] Voice 13: what we just recently voted on as clustered versus compact, and it would be good to see

[1:45:28] Voice 13: a corrected version of that. And so therefore, my question is, what's not clear to me at the moment

[1:45:36] Voice 13: is, have we just lost the entire conversation about compact versus clustered? And is that

[1:45:44] Voice 13: not revisiting the original motion, which is maybe not an appropriate

[1:45:50] Voice 13: action and I turn to and that's not that I'm in disagreement with what trustee Elliott's bringing

[1:45:57] Voice 13: but um are we still compact or are we clustered and and therefore that does that offend the

[1:46:04] Voice 13: previous motion okay and I'll go

[1:46:08] Voice 18: to uh director murder on the uh potential offense of the previous

[1:46:13] Voice 18: motion go ahead sir yeah

[1:46:14] Voice 11: if we were in trust council meeting and you were voting on bylaws

[1:46:19] Voice 11: and directing staff i would agree with you in this case it's committee of the whole you're trying to

[1:46:24] Voice 11: come up with a document to recommend to council so i think you need to be a little bit more flexible

[1:46:29] Voice 11: and allow for that kind of uh changes thank you

[1:46:34] Voice 11: i'll chill

[1:46:36] Voice 18: that's great thank thank you for your

[1:46:39] Voice 18: advice uh there director marler uh trustee elliott um

[1:46:44] Voice 6: i do think that if we're going to define

[1:46:47] Voice 6: Define, we're going to direct development to be compact.

[1:46:53] Voice 6: There needs to be some more work on defining what kind of development we're talking about.

[1:46:57] Voice 6: So this is a broad policy. If we could have another policy saying ensure commercial and non-residential development is compact, as in clustered and appropriately situated on the island.

[1:47:19] Voice 6: I think that separates it out, and that could be a separate policy. What I'm trying to get at is there's an overall, there's just a messiness about sustainable development that it's impossible to quantify, and I don't find the policy really helpful at all. So if we can refine it a bit and create a different policy, that might work.

[1:47:45] Voice 18: Okay, thank you for that. We have a motion on the floor. I'm looking for any speakers

[1:47:50] Voice 18: on the motion. Trustee Evans.

[1:47:54] Voice 8: I was just going to say I think it'd be good once we get it back

[1:47:57] Voice 8: up on the screen so we can look at the cleaned up version because I believe that that's what's

[1:48:00] Voice 8: happening right now because that kind of limits our conversation. But the wording as I recall it,

[1:48:09] Voice 8: I think that that encapsulates the intent of what we're trying to establish here without the confusion of or the mixing up of the commercial areas versus residential areas versus, you know, all the other areas and how those words compact apply and clustered apply.

[1:48:33] Voice 8: I think this achieves what our discussions have been around, and I would support this.

[1:48:44] Voice 18: Thank you.

[1:48:45] Voice 18: Trustee Bernardo, followed by Trustee Getty.

[1:48:48] Voice 16: Yeah, the virtue of the approach that Trustee Elliott has put before us with this and also the other ones that she intends to propose, the other resolutions, is precision.

[1:49:00] Voice 16: I mean, it's very clear what this means.

[1:49:02] Voice 16: The other, as she had just pointed out a few moments ago, a certain amount of ambiguity in the general language that used before. This is very precise. And in keeping with the precision theme, I agree with Trustee Elliott's words or comments with respect to the little discussion we had about compact plus the rest of it.

[1:49:28] Voice 16: But I believe she's quite right.

[1:49:30] Voice 16: I mean, that's also an area that we should be more – if we want to pursue it, we can.

[1:49:37] Voice 16: We can do it elsewhere, and we can be more precise about exactly what we mean.

[1:49:42] Voice 16: What do we want to cluster?

[1:49:43] Voice 16: Is it commercial, residential?

[1:49:45] Voice 16: What are we talking about?

[1:49:46] Voice 16: And we do need to have a fuller discussion about that.

[1:49:50] Voice 16: So I'm all for precision, and this is what that does.

[1:49:56] Voice 16: Trustee Getty.

[1:49:58] Voice 14: Is it possible that we could amend this to substitute it for 3.4.2? Simply, then the next document that we get with the red lines will have both. And there's overlap and there's, to me, there's a little bit of confusion in terms of all the stuff that we went through.

[1:50:16] Voice 14: and i i appreciate the um the answer that director marler gave to trustee luckham but um i think in

[1:50:25] Voice 14: terms of just stepping back from it and looking at everything that we've talked about today

[1:50:29] Voice 14: i would find it helpful if this um the 3.4.1 that we just talked about for the first hour

[1:50:36] Voice 14: we left and then this was um the recommendation to replace the uh density 3.4.2 can i make that

[1:50:45] Voice 14: that okay thank you i

[1:50:47] Voice 18: don't believe that's a friendly amendment and i know trustee um elliot

[1:50:54] Voice 18: has a uh proposed motion for the next um policy i uh i see trustee patrick i did see rpm jammer

[1:51:06] Voice 18: rat's hand up there but i don't see it anymore uh so i'll go to trustee patrick on the motion

[1:51:12] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I'm sort of along where Judy was getting at. I mean, San Juan has two pieces, and I think that's what we're losing is they have the direct, you know, they're directing growth into containment areas. They call them containment areas.

[1:51:26] Trustee Patrick: So we're missing that piece is where this is saying, you know, when you are going to be considering, and I like the wording here about your decisions that you're making, that's very different than now I'm saying, okay, well, I'm going to direct density to a certain place.

[1:51:43] Trustee Patrick: So I think we need to consider, and maybe that's a question to staff, I would vote for this one, but maybe ask, is there better wording along those lines of the direction of that density? That's all.

[1:52:03] Voice 18: Yes. Okay. So I'm just going to quickly add my thoughts there, which is in terms of not losing the work that we've put in earlier, the potential for giving this a separate number of its own.

[1:52:20] Voice 18: and then clearly we're not going to get through

[1:52:23] Voice 18: this whole section today

[1:52:24] Voice 18: because we're only on policy number two.

[1:52:26] Voice 18: And so maybe staff can capture

[1:52:28] Voice 18: both the work that we've done

[1:52:30] Voice 18: and this motion assuming it passes

[1:52:33] Voice 18: and then when we do come back for more deliberation

[1:52:36] Voice 18: then we haven't lost that.

[1:52:38] Voice 18: Just a thought.

[1:52:39] Voice 18: I see Trustee Elliott and then Trustee Evans

[1:52:41] Voice 18: and then I'd like to call the question.

[1:52:43] Voice 18: Trustee Elliott.

[1:52:44] Voice 6: Just very quickly, I do agree that we need to

[1:52:47] Voice 6: have language like directing density and that should come in the density limit section so i

[1:52:55] Voice 6: that is the second motion i don't think it should be conflated with this one and maybe we need three

[1:53:01] Voice 6: policies thank you fair

[1:53:04] Voice 18: enough trustee evans thanks

[1:53:07] Voice 8: um i don't agree with keeping 3.4.1 as it

[1:53:12] Voice 8: was amended just because the language is so it can be interpreted so many different ways I find

[1:53:22] Voice 8: this language is clean and clear so I'd rather not have the previous language and this language

[1:53:30] Voice 8: because then that's going to get really messy so I would I would support replacing it with

[1:53:37] Voice 8: this language okay

[1:53:41] Voice 18: thank you any more speakers on the motion i'm not seeing any i'll call the

[1:53:48] Voice 18: question all those in favor please raise your hands let's see 12 in favor excellent thank you

[1:54:01] Voice 18: uh hands down please trustee fast will you lower your hand please any opposed i see one opposed

[1:54:23] Voice 18: yeah the motion carries i'm gonna go back to trustee elliot and um i believe you have at

[1:54:31] Voice 18: least one if not a couple more motions that you were uh going to propose here so back to you

[1:54:41] Voice 6: thank you chair um so the the um limiting impacts on indigenous cultural heritage harvesting hunting

[1:54:51] Voice 6: areas i'd like to set that aside i do think it needs a separate policy that was my second one

[1:54:57] Voice 6: um but if we want to go to uh policy 3.4.2 laura laurie the last one density limits

[1:55:07] Voice 6: i was going to suggest that be amended to the wording manage community growth and its associated

[1:55:15] Voice 6: impacts by directing high density residential and mixed use development into appropriate locations

[1:55:21] Voice 6: so i'll just move it and then we can have some discussion so i move that committee of the whole

[1:55:27] Voice 6: recommends to executive committee that policy 3.4.2 be amended to read, manage community growth

[1:55:36] Voice 6: and its associated impacts by directing high density residential and mixed use development

[1:55:41] Voice 6: into appropriate locations to prevent sprawl and relieve growth pressure in the surrounding rural

[1:55:47] Voice 6: areas and to help safeguard protected area networks.

[1:55:51] Voice 18: So moved. Trustee Yates, are you

[1:55:53] Voice 18: you seconding yes

[1:55:56] Voice 3: i am thank

[1:55:57] Voice 18: you um discussion on the motion before us trustee bernardo i'm just

[1:56:05] Voice 16: going to keep saying it it's precise it's very clear does the job in fact it is very um focused

[1:56:12] Voice 16: on exactly what we want to achieve uh without clumsy words that might be misinterpreted as

[1:56:20] Voice 16: is shackling local trust committees.

[1:56:23] Voice 16: It's directing local trust committees to,

[1:56:27] Voice 16: they must, we in our local trust committee capacity

[1:56:31] Voice 16: must direct our minds to doing this.

[1:56:37] Voice 16: And it hits the right balance

[1:56:40] Voice 16: between discretion and direction.

[1:56:42] Voice 16: It's directing us to sort of go in that direction,

[1:56:44] Voice 16: but it's up to us to figure out what works

[1:56:47] Voice 16: in that particular area, in our particular area.

[1:56:49] Voice 16: So I support this.

[1:56:53] Voice 18: okay thank you on the emotion

[1:56:55] Voice 18: i have boland fast and evans can

[1:56:58] Voice 14: we see the motion please

[1:57:04] Voice 18: trustee boland go ahead um

[1:57:06] Voice 9: i support this i had prepared something that i think meant the same

[1:57:12] Voice 9: but was full of that clumsy inexact language this is way way better so i support this thank you

[1:57:20] Voice 18: thank you i'm going to turn to uh reaching regional planning manager jamrat i see your

[1:57:25] Voice 18: hand up and then we'll go back to the speaker's list thank

[1:57:29] Voice 5: you chair um i can appreciate that i'm

[1:57:33] Voice 5: i'm sort of i'm looking at the revised or the proposed uh resolution and then thinking quickly

[1:57:41] Voice 5: through some planning considerations um as we go through this so that's um not a usual thing that

[1:57:48] Voice 5: we would do at a policy statement level um so there could be some more information that comes

[1:57:54] Voice 5: comes through as part of the review and considering this proposed motion on the floor, our existing

[1:58:04] Voice 5: legislation does allow local trust committees and the trust council to consider where density

[1:58:13] Voice 5: can go, placement, location, mapping.

[1:58:17] Voice 5: This gives further direction specifically for high density residential and mixed use

[1:58:22] Voice 5: development. So that would be commercial, how mixed use development is defined. So in terms of

[1:58:30] Voice 5: further refining that, that is where the difference lies between what sits as that density limit

[1:58:40] Voice 5: directive. So this motion on the floor is directing more specifically for, or rather calling out high

[1:58:48] Voice 5: density residential and mixed use development if that is the desire of um of the executive

[1:58:55] Voice 5: uh committee for this particular um policy um it doesn't it would necessarily preclude

[1:59:03] Voice 5: an ltc from proposing other more specific policies around density on other types of land use so i do

[1:59:13] Voice 5: want to say that as well thank

[1:59:15] Voice 18: you thank you for that trustee fast on the motion thank

[1:59:20] Trustee Fast: you um i'll

[1:59:21] Trustee Fast: be voting against this motion even though i like lots of things about it i noticed that the word

[1:59:26] Trustee Fast: limit density has been changed to manage density and uh i think we are in the business of limiting

[1:59:36] Trustee Fast: density if we're going to protect and preserve the trust area and its unique amenities environment

[1:59:42] Trustee Fast: environment for the benefit of going on. And so I'll be voting against this motion. Thank you.

[1:59:50] Voice 18: Thank you. Trustee Evans and then Lockham.

[1:59:53] Voice 8: I was just going to ask a question and get people's input if

[2:00:00] Voice 8: if I were to propose an amendment to change the word high density to appropriate density limits

[2:00:08] Voice 8: for so that it would read manage community growth and its associated impacts by directing

[2:00:15] Voice 8: appropriate density limits for residential and mixed use development into appropriate areas

[2:00:21] Voice 8: areas. Because I think that that changes the meaning here. I don't think that we have a

[2:00:29] Voice 8: lot of high density areas on our islands. But by bringing in the words appropriate density

[2:00:37] Voice 8: limits, that brings in the the limited that the limiting aspects of what trustee fast

[2:00:48] Voice 8: was also discussing so i'm going to open that up for for a conversation before i make a motion to

[2:00:54] Voice 8: amend okay

[2:00:57] Voice 18: thank you trustee luckham elliot and then getty trustee luckham yeah

[2:01:03] Voice 13: thank you sir

[2:01:04] Voice 13: um a lot i have a lot of sort of conflicting thoughts here um on essentially the sustainable

[2:01:12] Voice 13: developments density limits and impacts of development um just on those particularly

[2:01:18] Voice 13: And where there's a couple more motions, I know, and it's hard to manage this as discrete components in a bigger picture view.

[2:01:26] Voice 13: But I'm just thinking, and I'm going to change my language a little bit, where I might say nations in a previous iteration of this.

[2:01:34] Voice 13: I'm just going to refer to Indigenous communities and governments.

[2:01:38] Voice 13: But we heard from Indigenous communities and governments in consultation on the policy statement that everything we do needs to be viewed through the lens of the interests of the Indigenous nations and Indigenous communities and governments.

[2:01:55] Voice 13: And we're talking about moving one of the bullets from 3.41 to one of the latter bullets, and yet we're not actually speaking to sustainable development through that lens, density limits through that lens, and potentially impacts of development through that lens.

[2:02:18] Voice 13: because part of the conversation we've heard most recently

[2:02:24] Voice 13: is allowing for the capacity and opportunities

[2:02:28] Voice 13: for Indigenous communities and governments

[2:02:31] Voice 13: to develop areas within the Islands Trust for their interests.

[2:02:40] Voice 13: And so, indeed, those densities and sustainability questions

[2:02:46] Voice 13: questions, and the impacts of them, to some extent, need to be viewed in that context.

[2:02:53] Voice 13: And I don't have a solution or an answer for you.

[2:02:55] Voice 13: And perhaps Toby Elliott, who I know is also very interested in this topic, might have

[2:03:01] Voice 13: some suggestions for how she's thinking that this might evolve in the bigger picture.

[2:03:07] Voice 13: And I'm trying to look at it from a 10,000-foot view about how this section is going to fit

[2:03:12] Voice 13: into that expression of interest that we've had.

[2:03:15] Voice 13: uh

[2:03:19] Voice 18: trustee elliott and then getty i'll

[2:03:23] Voice 6: be quick i do absolutely want to respect the fact that

[2:03:26] Voice 6: um first nations um who have people who have commented on this policy statement of have said

[2:03:33] Voice 6: they want to see limits to growth the problem is is that we haven't figured out a way to quantify

[2:03:40] Voice 6: density limits and we have ended up with sprawl as trustee patrick has pointed out many times

[2:03:47] Voice 6: just keeping five acre parcels relatively large and letting people put a house where they wish

[2:03:54] Voice 6: on the lot is kind of the only management tool that we have is by limiting the number of houses

[2:04:02] Voice 6: that doesn't necessarily limit the damage that is being done through the construction and through

[2:04:06] Voice 6: the roads that were basically carved on logging roads. So I would absolutely welcome anyone who

[2:04:15] Voice 6: who wants to put a more constructive quantifiable metric on density limits,

[2:04:25] Voice 6: I think that it would be helpful.

[2:04:27] Voice 6: I just don't think we've gotten there.

[2:04:30] Voice 6: And I guess what this does is it takes the harmful most,

[2:04:39] Voice 6: you know, the greatest impacts of residential development

[2:04:43] Voice 6: and directs it to places where it's going to be it's most appropriate so I don't think it's a

[2:04:52] Voice 6: perfect one but I don't see that density limits has any how do you measure that we don't have

[2:05:01] Voice 6: population growth metrics managed by the state as San Juan County does they have literal very

[2:05:08] Voice 6: very precise numbers of how many people they need to support on the island

[2:05:11] Voice 6: and where those,

[2:05:13] Voice 6: and so how they manage it is where those people go and where that growth is

[2:05:17] Voice 6: directed.

[2:05:18] Voice 6: So I think that is a more helpful direction,

[2:05:23] Voice 6: but I just haven't seen anything yet that helps us limit density in a way

[2:05:29] Voice 6: that protects the environment.

[2:05:36] Voice 18: Trustee Getty and then Trustee Evans and then Boland.

[2:05:41] Voice 14: There's huge parts of this that are very interesting and parts that I might be able to support.

[2:05:47] Voice 14: But I have some underlying questions because I don't know how this would work on Bowen.

[2:05:53] Voice 14: We don't have a protected area network.

[2:05:56] Voice 14: And I'm not even sure, you know, there's private property and people buy land and they have an idea for development.

[2:06:04] Voice 14: And I'm not entirely sure how we deal with appropriate locations.

[2:06:08] Voice 14: so you know when the islands trust was first being established in 74 we got the herbonin report that

[2:06:15] Voice 14: told us that we should or should not be developing in certain areas that couldn't withstand septic

[2:06:21] Voice 14: and you needed to have different protections and we you know we've got the beginnings of some

[2:06:27] Voice 14: groundwater development and everything so this is this is a different system and i'm not entirely

[2:06:34] Voice 14: I'm not entirely sure that it translates easily to our, I don't, it doesn't translate easily to Bowen. So I don't know whether it does to the other parts. Even, you know, surrounding rural areas is harder to find on Bowen. So it's, you know, I think there's much to be examined and learn from, but I'm not entirely sure that this is going to fit.

[2:07:04] Voice 18: Trustee Evans.

[2:07:09] Voice 8: Well, this is turning into a very interesting conversation. I'm hoping that what I'm going to suggest now is a friendly amendment. Please tell me, Trustee Elliott, if it's not, but can we put the word sustainable after manage?

[2:07:32] Voice 6: If I can respond.

[2:07:35] Voice 17: Go ahead.

[2:07:35] Voice 17: I

[2:07:36] Voice 6: think the word sustainable is so tricky itself, because what are we trying to sustain? Are we trying to sustain settler patterns and zoning that was put in place 40 years ago?

[2:07:49] Voice 6: are we trying to a sustainable rural way of life um it is that sustainable community growth

[2:08:04] Voice 6: predicated on water and i am challenged by the word sustainable i i i just it

[2:08:13] Voice 18: sounds like you

[2:08:14] Voice 18: you don't take it as friendly okay

[2:08:18] Voice 8: so um remove the word sustainable then um and maybe i'll make

[2:08:25] Voice 8: it as an amendment and we'll see when we can open it up for discussion and see how people feel about

[2:08:31] Voice 8: it um and i'm going to do um both of my changes at once and we'll just have a chat and see where

[2:08:38] Voice 8: where things fall out so i are

[2:08:40] Voice 18: you gonna just please could you just go ahead you're gonna move

[2:08:43] Voice 18: it great thank you okay

[2:08:47] Voice 8: i move that the word sustainable be added after the word manage

[2:09:11] Voice 8: okay so i froze again i think and that um and changing the words high density

[2:09:23] Voice 8: to appropriate density limits for appropriate density limits for thank you

[2:09:51] Voice 18: okay that's your motion uh bolin and fast i see your hands up but i'm going to look for a second

[2:09:56] Voice 18: for the motion trustee Poland are you seconding um

[2:10:04] Voice 9: sorry no I had something to say but I'll wait

[2:10:08] Voice 9: until

[2:10:08] Voice 18: okay I'll come back to you then so I'm looking for a seconder for the motion

[2:10:16] Voice 18: I'm not trustee Elliot you're

[2:10:19] Voice 1: going to second the motion

[2:10:20] Voice 1: the

[2:10:21] Voice 18: motions moved and seconded uh trustee Boland on the uh amendment um

[2:10:30] Voice 9: I was going to speak to

[2:10:31] Voice 9: the idea of limits. I don't know if it's true in any other

[2:10:36] Voice 9: official community plan, but in Saturna's plan

[2:10:39] Voice 9: there is an explicit limit set. It's

[2:10:44] Voice 9: described as a social contract and

[2:10:47] Voice 9: you may or may not disagree, you may agree or not

[2:10:52] Voice 9: with the limit that's set, but there is an explicit set

[2:10:55] Voice 9: and limit set. And I feel that

[2:10:59] Voice 9: But many of the official community plans have a lot of content, which we are, which we can reference. So I would support putting something in here. You know, the community defines what its limits are, and that we should recommend that a limit is set, but we should not attempt to set those limits. Thanks.

[2:11:27] Voice 18: thank you trustee evans and then i see uh

[2:11:31] Voice 18: rpm gemma go ahead trustee evans i

[2:11:34] Voice 8: was going to say

[2:11:34] Voice 8: we have uh density limits set on our island as well as to how um how many uh um like you can

[2:11:42] Voice 8: have a house and you can have a cottage on certain sizes blah blah blah um and yeah so i think that

[2:11:48] Voice 8: there are ways to set limits um and i think it's important for our islands that they are set

[2:11:54] Voice 8: Thank

[2:11:58] Voice 18: you. RPM Jamerat and then Trustee Fast.

[2:12:02] Voice 5: Thank you, Chair. A comment I have for reflection here is perhaps the discussion doesn't necessarily need to be the how do we figure it out. That's for the implementation.

[2:12:14] Voice 5: So there's some of these, some of the next steps in terms of implementation can be suggestions or examples to achieve this directive.

[2:12:28] Voice 5: So the OCP can be part of the implementation to say add policies in the OCP to identify limits, for example.

[2:12:41] Voice 5: So perhaps getting the policy into a place that gives the appropriate direction for the LTCs and the implementation part of this piece of work can then identify the how to do it.

[2:12:58] Voice 5: Thank

[2:13:01] Voice 18: you. Trustee Fast on the amendment.

[2:13:05] Trustee Fast: Thank you. I still won't be voting in favor of the big motion because it doesn't include the word limits, which I think there are limits to growth.

[2:13:16] Trustee Fast: We have a limited edge around our islands. We have boundaries. We have limited amounts of water that falls. We have limited amounts of habitat needed for some kinds of wildlife.

[2:13:29] Trustee Fast: life like if it gets too small you lose your pileated woodpeckers which means you lose all

[2:13:34] Trustee Fast: kinds of species for example so that's one thing the second one is i would note that the word

[2:13:39] Trustee Fast: sustainable is a long uh useful word there are um for example it's in the sustainable development

[2:13:48] Trustee Fast: goals used by the united nations it's a word that uh has received a lot of negative attention and

[2:13:57] Trustee Fast: And people have been trying to discredit this word, I feel.

[2:14:02] Trustee Fast: And so I would question, it's a tricky word.

[2:14:10] Trustee Fast: Sustainable has a definition.

[2:14:11] Trustee Fast: It's used in the Sustainable Development Goals, but it was pointed, I read something today,

[2:14:16] Trustee Fast: one of the Sustainable Development Goals is to maintain economic growth.

[2:14:21] Trustee Fast: So it's confusing.

[2:14:23] Trustee Fast: And I think we should all think about that word sustainable more.

[2:14:26] Trustee Fast: But I also think it's a real word, like the word justice, or like the word equity. It's a big word. And I think we need to pay attention to that. Regarding limits, I've been looking through the input from First Nations, and I'm looking at 2.4.1 limit, the rate and scale of development.

[2:14:49] Trustee Fast: One of the comments is, so limits must include planning for a percentage of the allowed housing for this First Nation, Cowichan tribe, I believe, and other First Nations, as well as the needs of non-Indigenous community.

[2:15:05] Trustee Fast: So I could support these motions if something like that was in there, as it is, or in the policy statement somewhere.

[2:15:14] Trustee Fast: somewhere. But I still support the idea of limits and appropriate density limits for

[2:15:23] Trustee Fast: doesn't go as far as what I would like. So I won't, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Thank you

[2:15:28] Trustee Fast: about this amendment.

[2:15:31] Voice 18: Okay, any further speakers on the amendment? Not seeing any, I will call the

[2:15:39] Voice 18: question on the amendment. All those in favor, please raise your hand.

[2:15:51] Voice 11: I see four in favor,

[2:15:53] Voice 11: Five in favor.

[2:15:58] Voice 18: Okay.

[2:15:59] Voice 18: Lower your hands, please.

[2:16:04] Voice 18: Trustee Dodds, your hand is still up.

[2:16:06] Voice 18: Okay, excellent.

[2:16:07] Voice 18: Thank you.

[2:16:08] Voice 18: Those opposed, please raise your hands.

[2:16:17] Voice 11: Eight opposed.

[2:16:19] Voice 11: Five in favor.

[2:16:22] Voice 11: So abstains, but that fails.

[2:16:26] Voice 18: Okay, the amendment fails.

[2:16:27] Voice 18: So back to the unamended motion.

[2:16:32] Voice 18: I'd like to just go ahead and call the question.

[2:16:36] Voice 18: All those in favor, please raise your hands.

[2:16:40] Voice 8: Sorry, before you, so I'm trying to get this, before you call the motion, I have a question.

[2:16:48] Voice 18: Okay, what's the question?

[2:16:51] Voice 8: I'm wondering, with our islands, our Islands Trust was brought in to make sure that we didn't have high density.

[2:16:57] Voice 8: So this now reads that we're only going to be looking after, that we manage community growth by directing high density residential and mixed use development.

[2:17:08] Voice 8: but the reason why we were brought into existence was to make sure that we didn't do high density so

[2:17:14] Voice 8: how is this applicable in the way that it's worded now to the islands trust and the way that we are

[2:17:22] Voice 8: mandated to operate is this appropriate the way it's worded i

[2:17:31] Voice 11: could speak to that

[2:17:32] Voice 18: go ahead uh mr marler and then i see a couple more hands up

[2:17:39] Voice 11: yeah that that actually was something i

[2:17:41] Voice 11: was thinking about um trustee evans um high density is not usually something we consider

[2:17:49] Voice 11: in the trust area i think uh if this was to stay in as a policy then you would probably want to

[2:17:56] Voice 11: it would just really be up to local trust committees to determine what they think high

[2:18:00] Voice 11: density is for the particular island uh maybe in the implementation you would have some

[2:18:05] Voice 11: consideration of what council considers high density to help interpret this particular policy

[2:18:13] Voice 11: so i think it would be left open to interpretation so you might want to not necessarily in the policy

[2:18:20] Voice 11: statement but maybe in the implementation policy provide some direction to local trust committees

[2:18:25] Voice 11: what council thinks high density is and that could be different for different islands

[2:18:33] Voice 18: Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to Mr. Yeomans, and then I'll go back to my speakers list. I've got Graham, Yates, Luckham, Bernardo, and Evans.

[2:18:43] Voice 12: Thank you, Chair Peterson. This is just to piggyback on something that Director Marlowe just said, but I think this body could consider replacing the word high density with something like multifamily, multifamily residential development.

[2:18:56] Voice 12: And indeed, I think this comes back to something that we heard Acting Director Jamarat say earlier, that it's not just residential development, but it could also be commercial, industrial, institutional. And you may want to give some consideration as to whether those should also be directed toward appropriate locations within this policy here.

[2:19:20] Voice 18: Okay, thank you. So I've got Bernardo Graham Yates Luckum Evans in that order. So Bernardo.

[2:19:26] Voice 18: thank

[2:19:29] Voice 16: you um to address the intention of the islands trust act um i don't think whatever

[2:19:37] Voice 16: the intention was uh it was certainly to limit development we know that uh but and director

[2:19:43] Voice 16: marler can help if i've got this wrong but as far as i know the act doesn't actually speak

[2:19:48] Voice 16: the actual legislation that governs us doesn't speak to the question of density it speaks to

[2:19:54] Voice 16: to the question of preserving and protecting the character of the trust area and the environment

[2:19:59] Voice 16: and density becomes an issue if we have to account for density and think about density in order to do

[2:20:06] Voice 16: our job under section three and so uh i don't think that's an issue uh you know and with respect

[2:20:15] Voice 16: to sort of being concerned about using the word high density i don't think that's forbidden language

[2:20:19] Voice 16: language and in keeping with what director marler was saying uh you know uh high density isn't

[2:20:26] Voice 16: defined but that becomes something uh i'm perfectly comfortable with that being in the eyes of the

[2:20:31] Voice 16: beholder which is which is to say each ltc is facing its own challenges and it's for the ltc

[2:20:37] Voice 16: to determine what constitutes high density or not now that might lead in some controversial

[2:20:43] Voice 16: situation to a debate between the executive committee and the local trust committee but

[2:20:47] Voice 16: but that's fine.

[2:20:48] Voice 16: Thank you.

[2:20:52] Voice 18: Okay, Graham seems to have a hand down.

[2:20:55] Voice 18: So then Yates.

[2:20:59] Voice 3: Okay, thank you, Chair Peterson.

[2:21:00] Voice 3: I just wanted to say I seconded the original motion,

[2:21:04] Voice 3: but I don't agree with the amendment.

[2:21:06] Voice 3: Thank you.

[2:21:12] Voice 18: Trustee Luckham.

[2:21:16] Voice 13: I can't help but say,

[2:21:18] Voice 13: I considered that the previous motion

[2:21:20] Voice 13: should potentially have been severed or divided.

[2:21:25] Voice 13: However, we are where we are now. But my question is, would anybody be offended by simply removing the word high density and not, because the intention is to direct residential and mixed-use development into appropriate locations?

[2:21:44] Voice 13: populations regard in my mind regardless of the density because some areas are already densified

[2:21:48] Voice 13: and perhaps some developments might be better moved into an area which is less dense already so

[2:21:55] Voice 13: i would be prepared to make a motion to remove the word high density to amend the motion to remove

[2:22:01] Voice 13: the word high density if i thought there was support for it uh

[2:22:06] Voice 18: that certainly seems the like

[2:22:08] Voice 18: the quickest and best way to go about it are you going

[2:22:12] Voice 13: to make the motion i

[2:22:13] Voice 13: will move that

[2:22:14] Voice 13: that the motion be amended to remove the word high density.

[2:22:22] Voice 13: So moved.

[2:22:23] Voice 18: We have a seconder.

[2:22:25] Voice 8: My second.

[2:22:26] Voice 18: Seconded by Trustee Evans.

[2:22:29] Voice 18: On the amendment, any speakers?

[2:22:36] Voice 18: I'm not seeing any speakers.

[2:22:37] Voice 18: I'm going to call the question on the amendment.

[2:22:39] Voice 18: All those in favor?

[2:22:41] Voice 18: Sorry.

[2:22:43] Voice 18: Yeah, okay.

[2:22:44] Voice 18: All those in favor?

[2:22:48] Voice 6: are

[2:22:53] Voice 11: we voting it's uh eight in favor yeah

[2:22:57] Voice 18: okay and hands down please

[2:23:02] Voice 16: sorry point of order uh didn't uh trusty elliot i understand for i can tell from my screen she

[2:23:08] Voice 16: had something to say but uh chair you're proceeding a little briskly for her to give

[2:23:14] Voice 16: to give her opportunity to speak to the uh to motion i

[2:23:19] Voice 18: apologize i thought i paused uh

[2:23:21] Voice 18: for a reasonable amount of time and and and i will endeavor to pause a little bit longer

[2:23:28] Voice 18: um and but we we have i did say to conduct the vote um before i saw her hand go back up so i

[2:23:36] Voice 18: actually thought she was voting at that point um is it is it material trustee ellett and does it

[2:23:43] Voice 18: need to be said before we conduct the vote you seem to think so so go ahead it

[2:23:48] Voice 6: it was it was

[2:23:50] Voice 6: was on the motion and my my internet's glitchy so i keep turning my well i'm

[2:23:56] Voice 6: sorry and i probably

[2:23:57] Voice 6: didn't

[2:23:57] Voice 18: allow time for that um

[2:23:59] Voice 6: so i i do agree with the intent that high density that is not what

[2:24:05] Voice 6: the island's trust area um is is supposed to be managing as high density residential growth

[2:24:11] Voice 6: is an appropriate word instead um the intensification or intense um we've been

[2:24:19] Voice 6: been talking about intensity of growth in regional planning committee and I don't have

[2:24:26] Voice 6: good wording for this but where you're seeing because growth can look like you know an eco

[2:24:36] Voice 6: village of eight units for instance it's not necessarily it's not a high rise so that does

[2:24:46] Voice 6: does look different for each community and it's it's an intensity of growth and it's different

[2:24:51] Voice 6: than the typical single family dwelling so it's a variation on what we have so

[2:25:03] Voice 6: look like and how do we quantify it if we want to just remove the words high density and close

[2:25:08] Voice 6: the conversation i'm fine yeah

[2:25:11] Voice 18: you're and your internet was breaking up there so you might want

[2:25:14] Voice 18: want to turn off your video um if you had any more to say uh we do have an amendment on the floor

[2:25:23] Voice 18: uh i see one more hand and then i would like to move to the question so um trustee evans on the

[2:25:29] Voice 18: amendment i

[2:25:31] Voice 8: like removing the words high density because the rest of the statement addresses what

[2:25:37] Voice 8: um trustee ellett was just saying it is to prevent sprawl and to relieve growth pressure in the

[2:25:42] Voice 8: surrounding rural areas and to help safeguard protected network areas so i like the removal

[2:25:47] Voice 8: of the words high density and end it there

[2:25:51] Voice 18: okay i'd like to call the question any further

[2:25:57] Voice 18: discussion on the amendment okay i'm not seeing any further discussion i'm going to call the

[2:26:07] Voice 18: question all those in favor please raise your hands uh 10 in favor okay please lower your hands

[2:26:22] Voice 18: Any opposed?

[2:26:26] Voice 18: None opposed.

[2:26:29] Voice 18: Okay, so the amendment carries.

[2:26:30] Voice 18: Now back to the amended motion.

[2:26:34] Voice 18: Anything on the amended motion, please raise your hand now or forever hold your peace.

[2:26:42] Voice 18: Trustee Dodds on the amended motion?

[2:26:45] Voice 10: Sorry, I'm having trouble clicking my hand here, but no.

[2:26:49] Voice 18: Okay.

[2:26:50] Voice 10: Sorry.

[2:26:51] Voice 18: And I didn't see anyone else, so I'm going to just call the question on the amended motion.

[2:26:56] Voice 18: All those in favor, please raise your hands.

[2:27:05] Voice 18: 10 in favor.

[2:27:07] Voice 18: Please lower your hands.

[2:27:12] Voice 18: And any opposed?

[2:27:18] Voice 11: I see two opposed.

[2:27:21] Voice 11: Okay.

[2:27:22] Voice 11: Do

[2:27:23] Voice 6: we still have quorum?

[2:27:24] Voice 6: Point of order.

[2:27:25] Voice 6: Do we still have quorum?

[2:27:27] Voice 6: I'm wondering if people have left the room because only 12 voted.

[2:27:31] Voice 11: Just give me a second.

[2:27:34] Voice 18: I see 14 on the participants list.

[2:27:40] Voice 11: Yeah, 14.

[2:27:44] Voice 18: Okay.

[2:27:44] Voice 18: So that is, we've dealt with that.

[2:27:48] Voice 18: I know trustee Elliott had at least one more suggestion here I'm going to I'm

[2:27:55] Voice 18: gonna recommend that we take a short recess can we break until 435 please

[2:28:05] Voice 18: unless there's any huge objections I'm gonna say let's break till 435 thanks

[2:36:45] Voice 1: I see

[2:36:46] Voice 18: some trustees are back, but I want to ensure that we do have quorum.

[2:36:50] Voice 18: So if you are with us, but your camera is off,

[2:36:53] Voice 18: could you raise your hand or otherwise indicate that you're with us?

[2:37:03] Voice 17: I have a bad internet connection, so camera's off.

[2:37:09] Voice 18: Okay, and that's fine.

[2:37:11] Voice 18: I just want to make sure that we're all back.

[2:37:16] Voice 18: I think I saw, I believe I saw everyone, but, oh,

[2:37:24] Voice 18: Oh, I don't see Trustee Dodds on the list.

[2:37:26] Voice 18: So there, one, two, three.

[2:37:32] Voice 18: Okay, I see 14.

[2:37:33] Voice 18: So let's resume then.

[2:37:37] Voice 18: And Trustee Elliott,

[2:37:38] Voice 18: I believe you had another recommendation for us.

[2:37:42] Voice 18: And over to you.

[2:37:44] Voice 18: We've got about 20 minutes remaining in our schedule.

[2:37:47] Voice 18: So let's see what we can do here.

[2:37:50] Voice 6: Okay, thank you.

[2:37:51] Voice 18: Trustee Elliott.

[2:37:53] Voice 6: Indulgence.

[2:37:53] Voice 6: um laurie if you would be able to put those other two up so there was two uh two more actually

[2:38:07] Voice 6: a new policy which i don't know if it would go up in indigenous cultural heritage protection

[2:38:17] Voice 6: um but this is where i think we can strengthen the language to ensure development

[2:38:24] Voice 6: is limited or development limits impacts on indigenous cultural heritage harvesting

[2:38:31] Voice 6: and hunting areas i don't know if that's enforceable um so totally open to language

[2:38:40] Voice 6: and advice on that and um the the part about uh transportation how development affects or

[2:38:51] Voice 6: or should be directed to encourage active transportation

[2:38:55] Voice 6: and reduce automobile use.

[2:39:00] Voice 6: So down in directive policies around transportation,

[2:39:05] Voice 6: we don't really have anything about how development should be encouraged

[2:39:16] Voice 6: or directed to support active transportation.

[2:39:20] Voice 6: So that second one, that development, I would replace the word ideally with should. The development should support reduced dependency on private automobile use and support increase. And so it's not directive. It's an advisory policy. It's what we should be doing anyways. And it's up to the local trust committee to interpret that.

[2:39:44] Voice 6: that. So those are my two suggested policies. I don't have an answer for limits to growth. I think

[2:39:51] Voice 6: that's still a larger conversation, and maybe we should have that at our next Committee of the

[2:39:58] Voice 6: Whole. Thank you. Oh, should I just move the recommended motion? Yes? I think that'd be great.

[2:40:07] Voice 6: Okay, so I move that Committee of the Whole recommends that Executive Committee adds a

[2:40:18] Voice 6: direct staff to add a new policy new directive policy um ensure yeah and ensure that development

[2:40:39] Voice 6: limits impacts on indigenous cultural heritage so if you could add the word that after ensure

[2:40:47] Voice 6: lori and you can delete all that previous bit yeah so delete that and that goes after ensure

[2:40:59] Voice 6: ensure that development limits impacts i'm really uncomfortable with that actually i want to say

[2:41:08] Voice 6: has no impact on indigenous cultural heritage i think that's like why are we letting development

[2:41:14] Voice 6: impact indigenous cultural heritage so but i'll move the motion as is and uh let's have some

[2:41:21] Voice 6: discussion oh

[2:41:22] Voice 13: it's a good word pardon me

[2:41:24] Voice 13: no it's a good word no

[2:41:26] Voice 6: it's a good word it's true

[2:41:28] Voice 6: True. Should not impact. Yeah, I'm really open to this. I really don't want to see us allowing any impact on Indigenous cultural heritage in our policies.

[2:41:43] Voice 6: Have no impact?

[2:41:45] Voice 6: Yeah, should have.

[2:41:47] Trustee Fast: I see

[2:41:49] Voice 18: two staff hands up, so I'm assuming that we're about to get some advice. I'll go to Director Frater first.

[2:41:59] Voice 10: Thank you, Trustee Peterson. In future, it might be better to refer to former planner Yeomans first as holding land use planning expertise. I would just note this is different. It's hard. I think as currently worded, I find it difficult to imagine implementation because the wording is ensure that a development limit has impacts, whereas I don't think that phraseology might not work.

[2:42:22] Voice 10: the former policy was about the siting of development that it wouldn't so that it'd

[2:42:28] Voice 10: be appropriately situated such that it didn't create an impact so just wanted to draw that

[2:42:32] Voice 10: distinction for the

[2:42:33] Voice 6: committee here so if i may if we would amend that to ensure that development

[2:42:39] Voice 6: is situated such that it such that impacts on indigenous indigenous cultural heritage

[2:42:47] Voice 6: harvesting and hunting areas are limited or um um what what's the word for no limited or

[2:42:56] Voice 7: are limited

[2:42:57] Voice 6: are limited

[2:42:59] Voice 7: eliminated or eliminated that's

[2:43:04] Voice 10: great thank you yeah so for we the former

[2:43:08] Voice 10: language was that it would be limited it's for you to determine you know whether it's eliminate

[2:43:13] Voice 10: or limit so

[2:43:14] Voice 6: before we go to jason um after harvesting and hunting areas

[2:43:21] Voice 6: is limited or eliminated altogether oh it's terrible wording

[2:43:32] i

[2:43:35] Voice 16: i would caution against using absolute terms like eliminated because that that will create

[2:43:40] Voice 16: an obligation on every ltc to always make sure that you know um it could make any bylaw

[2:43:51] Voice 16: challengeable i think uh because if we can't prove that there's no impact on indigenous cultural

[2:43:58] Voice 16: heritage that might screw us up i i think we're better off if we just say ensure that development

[2:44:04] Voice 16: is situated such the impacts on indigenous cultural heritage harvesting and hunting areas

[2:44:07] Voice 16: is is limited and then

[2:44:10] Trustee Fast: is minimal okay

[2:44:13] Voice 18: and i see some i see some staff hands up and so i'm

[2:44:17] Voice 18: assuming they've got some good advice for us uh uh mr yeomans and then we'll hear from mr marler

[2:44:24] Voice 18: and then we'll go back to uh for the comments uh

[2:44:29] Voice 12: thank you chair peterson i'm i'm not sure

[2:44:31] Voice 12: about the quality of my advice necessarily but advice it is nonetheless um i think i would agree

[2:44:36] Voice 12: agree with trustee bernardo in this case that um language that doesn't make an absolute commitment

[2:44:43] Voice 12: on the part of trust council or a local trust committee is is probably the better course of

[2:44:47] Voice 12: action in this case um like limited being likely a better word than eliminated i was just going to

[2:44:51] Voice 12: point out and i expect that trustee elliott is already aware of this that this policy is very

[2:44:56] Voice 12: very similar in wording to what exists under objective number two and policies 3.2.1 and 3.2.2.

[2:45:08] Voice 12: And I was just curious whether she sees overlap between what she's proposing now,

[2:45:14] Voice 12: whether it could indeed live under objective two or whether it should stay as a separate policy.

[2:45:19] Voice 12: I

[2:45:21] Voice 6: do see them as separate because this is under how do we develop. And the directive policies 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 to address potential impacts is, I think it's different wording.

[2:45:39] Voice 6: um yeah it is obviously different wording but is it wrong to have it more broadly in 3.2.1

[2:45:53] Voice 6: address potential impacts and then a little bit more pointedly when we're like to me this

[2:46:01] Voice 6: this is actually it gets back to the specificity if you're approving a development your job then

[2:46:08] Voice 6: And therefore, the EC would be checking, is that development situated in such that those impacts are limited? So I actually think it does the job better than address potential impacts, but I'm not going to quibble with 3.2.1. So I guess the question is, can we have it more specifically here and more generally in 3.2.1?

[2:46:36] Voice 6: Yeah,

[2:46:37] Voice 12: you certainly can. And in fact, I was just looking through a previous iteration of the bylaw from April. And I note that the new clause that you're proposing, which was previously going to be in 3.4.1, but now will stand alone, was actually suggested by the Shishal Nation.

[2:46:59] Voice 12: Thank you.

[2:47:00] Voice 18: I'm going to look to Director Marler, because I believe he may have some legislative

[2:47:06] Voice 18: advice for us.

[2:47:08] Voice 11: Actually, no, I've got my planning hat on.

[2:47:10] Voice 18: Oh, planning hat, okay.

[2:47:13] Voice 11: Yeah, I'm looking at this from a planning perspective.

[2:47:15] Voice 11: And also, there's an assumption here that the impacts are negative.

[2:47:19] Voice 11: So you haven't specified that.

[2:47:21] Voice 11: You know, you can go both ways.

[2:47:25] Voice 11: But what I was going to say is that if you can get the idea of what you want this to be,

[2:47:32] Voice 11: and staff can, you know, obviously, there's going to be more work on this document,

[2:47:36] Voice 11: such as going out has to go back to the nations for further comment or further consideration

[2:47:43] Voice 11: um so there may be some specific language that we can't think about right now that through maybe

[2:47:49] Voice 11: some thinking and uh reviewing we might come up with a better way of wording it so you know if

[2:47:55] Voice 11: you want to minimize um or reduce it or make it so it's negligible i think you can say that so

[2:48:02] Voice 11: So just ensure development is situated such that the impacts on indigenous cultural heritage,

[2:48:06] Voice 11: harvesting and hunting areas is negligible.

[2:48:08] Voice 11: And then take that out and get some feedback on it.

[2:48:13] Voice 11: And maybe the nations might have some wording that we haven't thought about.

[2:48:18] Voice 11: So I guess what I'm saying is don't get yourself too caught up in trying to get it perfect.

[2:48:22] Voice 11: And Claire might disagree with me.

[2:48:25] Voice 11: But if you can give us the direction of what you would like this to be.

[2:48:29] Voice 11: And then this is, again, is a recommendation.

[2:48:32] Voice 11: So staff might, you know, I'm forwarding it, we might come up with something that can tweak this and make it more workable. We can certainly do that for you.

[2:48:44] Voice 18: Thank you. And I'm just going to recognize RPM Jamerat, and then I've got a speaker's list.

[2:48:52] Voice 18: Thank you, Chair.

[2:48:53] Voice 18: And I would look for, after that, I would look for some finalized wording and then a motion and a seconder. So over to you, RPM Jamerat.

[2:49:03] Voice 18: Thank

[2:49:03] Voice 5: you, Chair. Just wanted to ask for clarification on 3.4.3 impacts of development as a directive policy, and how this new directive policy is related or different than that. Perhaps they could be combined together as two bullets under 3.4.3.

[2:49:30] Voice 18: Okay. And I'll note that there's a recommendation to add the words minimal after, or the word minimal after is. I do have a speaker's list. I'm going to go to Yates, Evans, and then Luckham. Trustee Yates.

[2:49:52] Voice 3: Thank you, Chair Peterson. I think RPM Jamaret just answered my concern-question. So thank you for that.

[2:50:00] Voice 18: Excellent. Trustee Evans.

[2:50:04] Voice 8: And with my wonderful internet, I missed it. So it might be helpful. I apologize,

[2:50:12] Voice 8: Trustee Yates, if you could actually ask your question again, because I cut out so I lost that

[2:50:17] Voice 8: piece.

[2:50:18] Voice 8: Sure. It

[2:50:20] Voice 3: wasn't really a question. It was just the fact that those two parts could maybe

[2:50:25] Voice 3: be combined. And then I don't because I don't have them up on the screen right now. I've

[2:50:30] Voice 3: I've already, I can't actually say them out,

[2:50:33] Voice 3: but RPM Jamret could maybe repeat that.

[2:50:36] Voice 5: Through the chair, my question to clarify was 3.4.3,

[2:50:43] Voice 5: directive policy impacts of development,

[2:50:46] Voice 5: and this proposed motion for a new directive policy

[2:50:50] Voice 5: could be combined into one,

[2:50:53] Voice 5: perhaps as two bullets under impacts of development.

[2:50:58] Voice 18: Gotcha. Thank you very much.

[2:51:00] Voice 18: Was that everything from you, Trustee Evans?

[2:51:03] Voice 18: i'll go to

[2:51:04] Voice 18: trustee lackham then

[2:51:05] Voice 8: sorry no um i had a different

[2:51:07] Voice 8: question but i just i missed that and

[2:51:10] Voice 8: with trustee saying that her question being answered i missed the whole thing um so again

[2:51:14] Voice 8: i'm going back to 321 and 322 where we've got this spelt out with the cultural heritage sites

[2:51:19] Voice 8: and the harvesting areas but we don't have anything about hunting areas so this is the

[2:51:25] Voice 8: new piece that we're adding in here regarding hunting areas i don't see that anywhere else in

[2:51:29] Voice 8: in here um and um that yes so i'm just curious as to how that would work um and i think any

[2:51:41] Voice 8: development that comes forward we have to look at especially objective two which is all about um

[2:51:49] Voice 8: first nations and cultural heritage so i think this applies to everything in here um what i'd

[2:51:59] Voice 8: be concerned about is if we bring this into each section afterwards as a standalone item then there

[2:52:05] Voice 8: can become conflicting language if each one is done differently so if you wanted to bring it in

[2:52:13] Voice 8: i would just copy the the language that we already have and drop it in if you want it if you want it

[2:52:19] Voice 8: to be repeated okay

[2:52:24] Voice 18: thank you trustee luckham bernardo and then elliot trustee luckham yeah

[2:52:31] Voice 13: Yeah, thank you. This is a really important piece that we're doing here, and I don't think it's fair to try and squeeze it in at the end of a day.

[2:52:42] Voice 13: And I think it would be appropriate, perhaps, to seek staff advice on appropriate wording to support the committee's interest on this particular section.

[2:52:57] Voice 13: protection and what Jason said earlier about what the Sechalt quote was was a little too fast for me

[2:53:05] Voice 13: to comprehend and would be interesting to hear again and have that on the screen if we want to

[2:53:09] Voice 13: continue to discuss this item but I think we should take our time with this.

[2:53:17] Voice 18: Thank you for that and

[2:53:18] Voice 18: certainly we're not obligated to come to a decision in the next six minutes. Trustee Bernardo.

[2:53:25] Voice 16: Well you

[2:53:26] Voice 16: Well, you know, as we just heard from Director Marler, whatever we do here, we're not like chained to it.

[2:53:32] Voice 16: I mean, we can do whatever we can today and then, you know, we can revisit it if we have to.

[2:53:36] Voice 16: So I'm not too fussed about that.

[2:53:38] Voice 16: But I do agree that this does, I think the natural place for it, at least in this directive section, is 3.4.3.

[2:53:50] Voice 16: After the wording of it, it's pretty close.

[2:53:52] Voice 16: uh i think though i'm a little troubled by the ensure that development is situated such that

[2:53:58] Voice 16: blah blah blah um use of the word situated is actually narrows the scope of the direction

[2:54:05] Voice 16: to well the location of the development i think we're better off if we just take out the word

[2:54:13] Voice 16: situated and i sent something out in the chat and i'm going to suggest that we just change the

[2:54:18] Voice 16: wording to say ensure that the negative impact of development on indigenous cultural heritage

[2:54:23] Voice 16: harvesting and hunting areas is minimal thank you for

[2:54:29] Voice 7: that suggestion oh

[2:54:30] Voice 16: we've got that negative

[2:54:31] Voice 16: concept uh that director marler brought up or somebody brought it up i'm sorry but the idea

[2:54:37] Voice 16: that we're not talking about just any impact we're talking about adverse impact you know to use the

[2:54:42] Voice 16: word adverse if you want it uh and you know it can't be absolute but it should be minimal so

[2:54:49] Voice 16: So anyhow, I've thrown the word up for the group.

[2:54:53] Voice 16: Thank you.

[2:54:56] Voice 18: Thank you for that.

[2:54:57] Voice 18: Trustee Elliott, over to you.

[2:55:01] Voice 6: I agree.

[2:55:03] Voice 6: We have heard from many First Nations saying that it is not necessarily the sighting only that they're concerned about.

[2:55:11] Voice 6: It's all the areas around and an entire area might be sacred.

[2:55:15] Voice 6: So I do think keeping it broad is better.

[2:55:19] Voice 6: And so if everyone's satisfied that at least this is the intent that we want to ensure, give a directive policy that development the negative impact.

[2:55:33] Voice 6: So let's amend this, that staff, and maybe we can give staff some, can they go back to advice or work that's already been done with First Nations to see if there's any language in there?

[2:55:52] Voice 6: um ensure that the negative develop ensure that the negative impacts of development

[2:56:01] Voice 6: on indigenous cultural heritage harvesting hunting areas is minimal or director marler what was your

[2:56:09] Voice 6: word um negligible is that the same thing it's probably the same thing okay yeah

[2:56:17] Voice 11: i think minimal

[2:56:17] Voice 11: Minimal, measurable, yeah, whatever you think is fine.

[2:56:23] Voice 18: Okay, and Trustee Elliott, are you prepared to move this?

[2:56:28] Voice 6: Add a new directive policy, yeah, and then we can see how it lands.

[2:56:33] Voice 6: And if staff have advice, I'd ask that they bring that back.

[2:56:37] Voice 6: So I so move that motion situated on.

[2:56:43] Voice 16: I'm happy to second it.

[2:56:47] Voice 6: And just to be clear, on the motion, and thank you for seconding,

[2:56:50] Voice 6: i do want this separate from consider the aesthetic environmental and social impacts

[2:56:55] Voice 6: of development i do think that's a whole separate piece considering those elements

[2:57:00] Voice 6: is a different piece than ensuring that negative impacts are minimized so that's why i want this

[2:57:06] Voice 6: i would like to see this policy separate thank you okay

[2:57:12] Voice 18: so we have a motion that is moved and

[2:57:15] Voice 18: And seconded. And I see Trustee Leckham on the motion.

[2:57:20] Voice 13: I appreciate the intent of this, and I think it needs more time.

[2:57:24] Voice 13: I can't support this motion because what does minimal mean?

[2:57:29] Voice 13: Walking across an ancestral resting place to some might be considered minimal.

[2:57:35] Voice 13: That same walking is disruptive to a loved one.

[2:57:40] Voice 13: I think we need to consider this carefully.

[2:57:45] Voice 13: Thank

[2:57:45] Voice 18: you for that thought. Trustee Evans.

[2:57:47] Voice 18: heavens

[2:57:48] Voice 8: i'm of a similar mindset the word minimal at the end of here it's putting um it's putting a

[2:57:58] Voice 8: it's putting a a large limit um which means that things can be challenged

[2:58:05] Voice 8: um i would say minimized rather than minimal um because then at least the the the intent is there

[2:58:15] Voice 8: there to have as small an impact as is possible.

[2:58:23] Voice 8: Yeah, so I'm not comfortable with the way that it's worded right now,

[2:58:27] Voice 8: and I'll leave it at that.

[2:58:33] Voice 18: Okay, thank you.

[2:58:35] Voice 18: Just got a message that Trustee Dodds needs to leave.

[2:58:41] Voice 18: I'm just going to check our numbers here.

[2:58:44] Voice 18: We'll lose Kwan.

[2:58:52] Voice 18: That would bring us down to 13.

[2:58:54] Voice 18: And I see Evans needs to leave as well.

[2:58:59] Voice 18: I think

[2:59:00] Voice 1: we have 13

[2:59:02] Voice 18: as our minimum.

[2:59:04] Voice 18: Okay.

[2:59:07] Voice 18: Trustee Evans, can you hang on for the vote?

[2:59:10] Voice 18: And I'll go to Trustee Patrick in the meantime.

[2:59:14] Trustee Patrick: The current language in the proposed draft policy says just limit impacts.

[2:59:20] Trustee Patrick: That's all it says right now.

[2:59:22] Trustee Patrick: So I think this is more descriptive.

[2:59:26] Trustee Patrick: and we're going to get more feedback yeah

[2:59:30] Voice 18: um while trustee evans is here can i call the question

[2:59:39] Voice 18: okay i'll call the question all those in favor so

[2:59:43] Voice 8: i was trying to get my hand up um i i think

[2:59:45] Voice 8: this needs more discussion before calling the vote i'd rather not rush the vote okay

[2:59:55] Voice 18: that's uh

[2:59:59] Voice 18: that's fine

[2:59:59] Voice 18: Fire.

[3:00:01] Voice 1: that's an opinion

[3:00:03] Voice 18: do you want a motion to defer

[3:00:12] Voice 18: I know we're at

[3:00:14] Voice 18: five o'clock so

[3:00:15] Voice 18: we can

[3:00:16] Voice 18: just defer this

[3:00:17] Voice 18: yeah point of order

[3:00:19] Voice 18: I

[3:00:19] Voice 16: don't think we need a motion

[3:00:22] Voice 16: to defer we kind of run

[3:00:24] Voice 16: out of time I think

[3:00:25] Voice 16: we'll just resume when we get back to it

[3:00:27] Voice 16: I mean if we just

[3:00:30] Voice 16: stop it's deferred by that act

[3:00:32] Voice 16: we don't need a motion for it

[3:00:38] Voice 18: Okay. I see a couple of hands up. So let's use this time to wrap up this session and we'll be preparing ourselves for the next session. Trustee Faust, Trustee Elliott.

[3:00:51] Trustee Fast: Sorry, I've lost my button. I'm putting my hand down.

[3:00:57] Voice 18: Okay. Trustee Elliott.

[3:00:58] Voice 18: it so

[3:01:00] Voice 6: i would like to move the committee of the whole request ec or recommend to ec that

[3:01:06] Voice 6: staff is requested to come back with options excuse me chair we no longer have quorum okay

[3:01:16] Voice 6: yeah

[3:01:16] Voice 18: i was just going to point that out yeah we no longer have quorum i

[3:01:20] Voice 6: was hoping we could get

[3:01:21] Voice 6: some uh advice for our next meeting but um maybe to be continued thank you ever

[3:01:28] Voice 11: major yes sir

[3:01:30] Voice 11: yeah because you lost quorum what i would suggest is that you just make a note in the minutes

[3:01:35] Voice 11: that um lost quorum uh so but general consent you agreed to continue this discussion at the

[3:01:41] Voice 11: next meeting and that way you don't need to pass any resolutions okay

[3:01:46] Voice 18: that seems uh eminently

[3:01:48] Voice 18: reasonable. So hopefully our

[3:01:53] Voice 18: minute taker has caught that.

[3:01:57] Trustee Fast: Yes, Chair Peterson, I caught that.

[3:02:00] Voice 18: Okay, thank you very much. Well then, we're out of quorum

[3:02:04] Voice 18: and out of time. So thank everybody for the

[3:02:08] Voice 18: great discussion and we will see you all later.

[3:02:13] Voice 14: Thank you,

[3:02:13] Voice 14: Tim. That was a good meeting.

[3:02:15] Voice 18: Thank you. Call the meeting

[3:02:16] Voice 18: adjourned. Thanks, everybody.

[3:02:20] Voice 7: Thanks, Tim. Thanks, everyone.