Islands Trust Council regular meeting, November 6, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 3: before us. We have scheduled tonight, this evening, a meeting of the Committee of the Whole in order

[0:00:07] Voice 3: to discuss the Trust Policy Statement. And so I'm now calling the meeting to order. Before we carry

[0:00:16] Voice 3: on any further, though, I'd like to acknowledge that we are privileged to live and work in lands

[0:00:23] Voice 3: and waters that have been the traditional home of the Coast Elish peoples and their ancestors

[0:00:27] Voice 3: since time immemorial. Now, long before the Islands Trust Act was created, long before the

[0:00:34] Voice 3: arrangement that we call British Columbia was even an idea, the people who lived in what we

[0:00:41] Voice 3: now call the Trust Area recognized the sacredness of these island places. They knew that living in

[0:00:47] Voice 3: harmony is actually the natural order of things. They also knew it's not possible to live in

[0:00:54] Voice 3: harmony without flourishing human communities. The trust is created 50 years ago now, and if

[0:01:02] Voice 3: we're honest, it was created without any meaningful regard for the interests of the trust area's

[0:01:06] Voice 3: Indigenous people. We're working hard to change that, but talking across a divide is not the same

[0:01:14] Voice 3: as bridging it, and consultation at the end of the day is not the same as coming together as

[0:01:20] Voice 3: partners. That's the heart of what we're trying to do with the trust policy statement. We're

[0:01:25] Voice 3: We're trying to get to that place where we no longer talk about them because there's only us.

[0:01:31] Voice 3: So with that, let's bear that in mind.

[0:01:34] Voice 3: We have a lot of work to do as trustees in various capacities, but how we orient ourselves with respect to this element is right at the top.

[0:01:45] Voice 3: It's the thing.

[0:01:47] Voice 3: So, with that, before I proceed to ask the meeting to approve the agenda,

[0:01:54] Voice 3: Trustee Luckham, in his capacity as Chair of Trust Council, has some very brief

[0:02:00] Voice 3: informative remarks he'd like to make.

[0:02:03] Trustee Luckham: Hello, Council. I'm really grateful. Thank

[0:02:06] Trustee Luckham: you, Trustee Bernardo, for this opportunity to address you. I'm really glad to see so many of you

[0:02:12] Trustee Luckham: of participating in this important work in the evening hours.

[0:02:17] Trustee Luckham: I just wanted to address you all rather than sending out an email.

[0:02:21] Trustee Luckham: There has been some questions that have arisen as a result of an article in the Driftwood today, I believe,

[0:02:29] Trustee Luckham: with respect to the work of the Executive Committee last week.

[0:02:34] Trustee Luckham: And that work primarily is around concerns about our December Trust Council

[0:02:40] Trustee Luckham: and meeting conduct and with respect to that there's been no real decisions made uh there

[0:02:48] Trustee Luckham: other than i will make some remarks at the beginning of council the only decision that

[0:02:52] Trustee Luckham: was made which might uh be the cause for your concerns is that the recording of the september

[0:02:59] Trustee Luckham: meeting was withdrawn from the website and this was done out of precaution um and certainly can

[0:03:05] Trustee Luckham: be replaced that can be put back uh uh if uh council deems that uh it wants to but it was

[0:03:12] Trustee Luckham: removed from the website because there had been a number of uh remarks and concerns expressed by

[0:03:17] Trustee Luckham: the public by staff um and by trustees that um some of the uh discussion uh didn't represent

[0:03:29] Trustee Luckham: represent the Allen's Trust in the best light. And so out of precaution, we decided to remove it.

[0:03:35] Trustee Luckham: And certainly, there was no opportunity to do an RWM of any sorts with council. And it wasn't

[0:03:41] Trustee Luckham: intended to leave you out. But certainly, we can add it back in if there's a desire for council

[0:03:46] Trustee Luckham: to do that. So I just wanted to address that. And there'll be more information coming by email

[0:03:50] Trustee Luckham: in a better way than this. But I didn't want to let this go for too long without

[0:03:57] Trustee Luckham: raising it with you and acknowledging the concerns that I've heard from a few trustees.

[0:04:01] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[0:04:03] Voice 3: Thank you, Peter. I'm sure trustees have all sorts of questions. Now is not the time

[0:04:07] Voice 3: to ask them. There will be a different occasion, a different forum, and we can deal with anything

[0:04:13] Voice 3: at that point. Let's move on now to approve the agenda. We've got a lot of work to do today.

[0:04:20] Voice 3: A point of explanation with respect to the agenda, our practice has been basically to

[0:04:27] Voice 3: to devote each meeting to just sort of plowing through the trust policy statement and having

[0:04:30] Voice 3: our debates and that sort of thing. You'll notice that there's an item 5.1 on the agenda,

[0:04:37] Voice 3: and briefly I should explain that to you just so you know why it's there. It's there because

[0:04:42] Voice 3: Director Frater at the last meeting raised this point at the last meeting, and it struck me as

[0:04:48] Voice 3: important. The point is, as she was careful to point out, the degree to which a policy element

[0:04:55] Voice 3: is more or less prescriptive is is in fact an underlying question that is lurking behind every

[0:05:02] Voice 3: one of the discussions we have about this or that policy point and so as director freighter had

[0:05:08] Voice 3: pointed out at that meeting it might be advisable for uh trustees to talk about this separately as

[0:05:15] Voice 3: you know as a conceptual issue uh to and so that we're better prepared as we go through these

[0:05:21] Voice 3: various items in the trust policy statement to um to address in our own minds and in the

[0:05:27] Voice 3: course of our discussions the prescriptive versus elective balance and so i was struck that by that

[0:05:35] Voice 3: point and i i reached out to director freder and asked her if she could elaborate on that for us

[0:05:41] Voice 3: at this meeting uh brief us briefly uh and that's what the the the note attached the agenda is all

[0:05:50] Voice 3: about and i believe it'll serve us well going forward if uh after we hear from director freighter

[0:05:54] Voice 3: we spend some time airing out this question this it's kind of an underlying conceptual tension

[0:06:01] Voice 3: and uh i i did discuss how long we should do that with director freighter and uh after discussing

[0:06:07] Voice 3: it with her i thought an hour was probably enough but whether we discuss it at all uh after we hear

[0:06:12] Voice 3: from director freighter that'll be of course uh up up to the group and it may well be that we don't

[0:06:19] Voice 3: discuss it or we discuss it very briefly but if we do get into it I would put a limit on it of an

[0:06:25] Voice 3: hour before we get on to the main attraction of what we're supposed to be doing here and thank

[0:06:30] Voice 3: you for hearing me out on this and we're now here at the point where I propose to ask the group to

[0:06:36] Voice 3: approve the agenda by by consent now unless somebody has and I see trustee Boland has her

[0:06:43] Voice 3: hand up I was going to invite people if they had any new business they wanted to raise please

[0:06:48] Voice 3: Please, Trustee Boland.

[0:06:50] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:06:52] Voice 11: I have two questions that are interrelated.

[0:06:56] Voice 11: And one is, so as we approach this,

[0:07:01] Voice 11: we have outstanding recommendations about amendments

[0:07:05] Voice 11: which have not been reviewed and adopted.

[0:07:09] Voice 11: So it makes it very difficult to look at the draft

[0:07:11] Voice 11: and consider, you know, statements in there

[0:07:15] Voice 11: and whether they already have a recommendation to be changed.

[0:07:20] Voice 11: So having a clear view of which sections we have already gone through

[0:07:24] Voice 11: and what we're going to tackle today would be really helpful.

[0:07:27] Voice 11: And or is it possible for us to reform as Trust Council

[0:07:33] Voice 11: and during this three-hour period adopt or reject

[0:07:37] Voice 11: the recommendations made by the Committee of the Whole?

[0:07:41] Voice 11: I believe it's possible for us to become the Committee of the Whole, become Trust Council at our own will.

[0:07:48] Voice 11: And if we could do that, it might just move things along more clearly.

[0:07:54] Voice 11: You know, the list of proposed recommendations haven't been applied and it just makes it hard to figure out where to go forward with the discussion.

[0:08:06] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:08:07] Voice 3: all right well we have that suggestion as an added item to the uh as new business um and i

[0:08:14] Voice 3: see the staff has been prompt in raising its hands here i see director marler and director

[0:08:18] Voice 3: freighter both have their hands up uh let's start with director marler yeah

[0:08:24] Voice 14: thank you i just wanted

[0:08:25] Voice 14: to respond to that uh question from trustee bolland uh the uh the answer that is no you can't

[0:08:32] Voice 14: because this meeting was called as a committee of the whole your meeting procedures by law allows

[0:08:37] Voice 14: is trust council so once you've called a trust council meeting going through the normal procedures

[0:08:43] Voice 14: like a resolution and you know establishing the type of place the bylaw allows you during the

[0:08:49] Voice 14: meeting to go into a committee of the whole if you decide to do so and then come back out

[0:08:54] Voice 14: but you can't go the opposite way because you haven't advised the public that you're intending

[0:09:00] Voice 14: to hold a public trust council meeting where you may be making decisions.

[0:09:05] Voice 11: So can I just respond

[0:09:07] Voice 11: on to that would it be a better idea to um schedule these meetings as trust council meetings

[0:09:14] Voice 11: to address a particular topic with the intention of say reviewing the previous committee of the

[0:09:22] Voice 11: whole content and approving or not and then re-entering into committee of the whole format

[0:09:27] Voice 11: rather than multiple committee of the holes which accumulate this backlog which leaves us

[0:09:33] Voice 11: you know just an idea well

[0:09:38] Voice 3: trustee boland uh your follow-up question um is uh moves on from the

[0:09:45] Voice 3: more okay legislative

[0:09:47] Voice 3: question about whether or not we can do it to uh the strategic question

[0:09:51] Voice 3: about how we're structuring this and why in terms of efficiencies uh and i think director

[0:09:56] Voice 3: freighter probably has something to say about that thank

[0:10:03] Voice 10: you yes i'm happy to speak to that

[0:10:05] Voice 10: we just want you to know that generally we expect to bring you a more track changes version than we

[0:10:10] Voice 10: were able to provide this time senior policy advisor humans was on holidays for much of the

[0:10:15] Voice 10: time interim between these two meetings and then subsequently was ill so we haven't had an

[0:10:20] Voice 10: opportunity to do that that said we do have a word for some track changes in it that we can bring on

[0:10:25] Voice 10: screen for you tonight when you get back into the document so at 5.2 we can unshare the pdf and share

[0:10:32] Voice 10: with you the word document and then it would be our intention in future meetings that we would do

[0:10:36] Voice 10: our best to then have track changes versions for you in your agenda packages this is seen as an

[0:10:41] Voice 10: anomaly with regard to how often trust council convenes to contemplate the recommendations from

[0:10:47] Voice 10: committee of the whole that's entirely up to you the way in which i think the project was envisioned

[0:10:52] Voice 10: was that we would meet you know you would meet a number of times in committee of the whole staff

[0:10:56] Voice 10: would work to batch the recommendations and bring them forward at various intervals based on the

[0:11:01] Voice 10: the project charter we envisioned the next batch being brought forward in january um so you would

[0:11:05] Voice 10: meet now meet in september or october november december we would then bring forward the totality

[0:11:11] Voice 10: of what's been recommended at that point that council could consider in one meeting in january

[0:11:16] Voice 10: at a special meeting but happy to take the direction from you know just council in december

[0:11:20] Voice 10: if they'd like them or from executive committee if they'd like them brought forward in a different way

[0:11:25] Voice 10: on a more interim basis well

[0:11:28] Voice 3: what I've what I'm

[0:11:29] Voice 3: here I see trustee fast sorry go ahead

[0:11:33] Trustee Fast: thank you chair I just like um thinking about notification to of the public and the local

[0:11:41] Trustee Fast: government act and community charter and how we've put uh our agenda out there for uh anyone

[0:11:47] Trustee Fast: who might be uh watching I move adoption of the agenda as posted thank you all

[0:11:54] Voice 3: right we have a

[0:11:55] Voice 3: motion on the floor i see uh trustee getty his second again uh and i'm i'm interpreting this as

[0:12:03] Voice 3: a desire to move this thing along and forget about this one item in terms of how we can deal with the

[0:12:08] Voice 3: keeping track of things and my own editorial comment is i draw some comfort from the assurance

[0:12:14] Voice 3: we got from director freighter that going forward we're going to have better access to track changes

[0:12:19] Voice 3: and that sort of thing so we now have a resolution do we is there any further discussion of the

[0:12:23] Voice 3: resolution or could simply put up to a vote all right i'm going to put up to a vote those in favor

[0:12:29] Voice 3: of uh adopting the agenda as is uh please um raise your hands now could you please now lower your

[0:12:40] Voice 3: hands and uh those of you who are opposed to the motion please raise your hands no one opposed uh

[0:12:51] Voice 3: a matter uh it the matter uh has been addressed we're moving on now dealing with the agenda as

[0:12:57] Voice 3: as presented.

[0:13:00] Voice 3: I'm hoping that we have before us at item three here,

[0:13:03] Voice 3: two sets of minutes for review and adoption.

[0:13:06] Voice 3: One set is from September 25

[0:13:08] Voice 3: and the other one is from October three.

[0:13:12] Voice 3: Unless anybody objects,

[0:13:14] Voice 3: I propose that we simply accept those by consent.

[0:13:21] Voice 3: Hearing no objections,

[0:13:22] Voice 3: we can move on to the follow-up action list item 4.1,

[0:13:25] Voice 3: the committee of the whole follow-up action list.

[0:13:28] Voice 3: Director Frater, would you like to speak to that please?

[0:13:34] Voice 10: essentially this is where we are keeping track of all the recommendations that have been passed to

[0:13:38] Voice 10: date and this is what we will use to provide either a subsequent briefing to you at a future

[0:13:43] Voice 10: meeting about how about the advice that you've requested or you'll use it to undertake the track

[0:13:48] Voice 10: changes in a document that you will see in future and we're happy to take questions um as it relates

[0:13:54] Voice 10: to any of these and i'll just let you know that we have both in this meeting today uh senior policy

[0:13:59] Voice 10: see um humans who's helping with the drafting and our senior indigenous relations specialist um

[0:14:05] Voice 10: joe elliott is available so and you can ask questions as needed trustees

[0:14:10] Voice 3: do you have any

[0:14:11] Voice 3: questions about the follow-up action list here thank you uh hearing none i think we can uh thank

[0:14:22] Voice 3: you for that um i think we can return to the rest of the agenda now and um oh i see trustee fast

[0:14:33] Voice 3: you put your hand up sorry go ahead thank

[0:14:36] Trustee Fast: you i was just uh looking at the very last motion on

[0:14:40] Trustee Fast: october the 8th which was the um uh the one that uh you seconded chair about um adding a new

[0:14:50] Trustee Fast: directive policy to ensure negative impacts of development on indigenous cultural heritage

[0:14:54] Trustee Fast: harvesting sites and hunting areas as minimal is that uh we did did was that passed i don't think

[0:15:02] Trustee Fast: was passed and i'm wondering um if we can pick up at that spot or when uh i'm hoping that we will

[0:15:08] Trustee Fast: come back to that because in the minutes it said it will be uh motion will continue discussion on

[0:15:15] Trustee Fast: the motion will continue at a future meeting so just something for the list all

[0:15:21] Voice 3: right and uh just

[0:15:22] Voice 3: for the record to clarify that trustee fast you mentioned october 8th it's actually from the

[0:15:26] Voice 3: the meeting on October 3rd, but you know, I can, I see where that comes from. I keep calling on you

[0:15:35] Voice 3: Director Frater, but perhaps I could ask you again to address Trustee Fass' question.

[0:15:41] Voice 10: That is correct.

[0:15:42] Voice 10: Yes, there was, the motion was moved and seconded, but not finalized. And it is our intention that

[0:15:47] Voice 10: we recommend that you pick up today with reconsideration of that motion, because we

[0:15:52] Voice 10: lost quorum at that very moment. So we've got it recorded here, but you would need to indeed pass

[0:15:56] Voice 10: ask the motion and that's our intention when you get to that section of the agenda so we'll pick

[0:16:00] Voice 3: up all right thank you then we'll pick up the string at that point um is that satisfactory

[0:16:04] Voice 3: uh trustee fast okay good thank you um uh we have a comment which i think we should address

[0:16:12] Voice 3: um a technical comment we got a on the chat i believe trustee dodds had a comment oh i see

[0:16:20] Voice 3: that's been cleared up sorry i don't wish i we had a potential technical problem but we don't now

[0:16:25] Voice 3: I think we now I think if I'm not mistaken this now takes us to item 5.1 on the agenda

[0:16:39] Voice 3: well you just heard me a few minutes ago explain where this comes from so I'm now going to you

[0:16:45] Voice 3: know without any further delay allow Director Frieder to frame the point for us so that we

[0:16:53] Voice 3: can undertake the discussion thank you.

[0:16:57] Voice 10: Chair Bernardo as you mentioned this is being brought

[0:16:59] Voice 10: to you as a result of a discussion you and i had but it was actually drafted by senior policy

[0:17:03] Voice 10: advisor human so with your permission i'll turn the floor over to him to introduce this briefing

[0:17:08] Voice 10: and i stand ready to assist with any explanations needed uh

[0:17:12] Voice 3: uh thank you by all means uh we can do

[0:17:14] Voice 3: it that way uh go ahead jason please uh please address the the point here

[0:17:18] Voice 12: okay thank you chair

[0:17:19] Voice 12: i think you introduced the subject uh quite articulately so maybe i'll just take a few

[0:17:23] Voice 12: moments to summarize the briefing that i provided for the benefit of anyone who hasn't had the

[0:17:27] Voice 12: a chance to read it yet and take any follow-up questions that may arise therefrom.

[0:17:35] Voice 12: The briefing starts off with an excerpt from the Islands Trust Act. The high point of that is

[0:17:41] Voice 12: simply that the Islands Trust Act does not describe whether or not the policy statement

[0:17:47] Voice 12: should be directive or whether it should be suggestive, which suggests that the extent to

[0:17:52] Voice 12: which it is one or the other of those is a matter for Trust Council's own consideration.

[0:17:57] Voice 12: duration. The briefing provides an excerpt from a legal opinion that was obtained by the Islands

[0:18:03] Voice 12: Trust in the year 2000. Subsequently, during a previous review of the Islands Trust policy

[0:18:09] Voice 12: statement, an excerpt from this legal opinion was made public. And the advice that legal counsel

[0:18:14] Voice 12: provided at the time was simply that while the Islands Trust Act may be silent on the extent to

[0:18:19] Voice 12: which the policy statement should or could be directive, it is within trust counsel's purview

[0:18:24] Voice 12: to make it directive if Trust Council so chooses to make it so.

[0:18:28] Voice 12: The briefing also provides an excerpt from a 2011 report

[0:18:32] Voice 12: that was undertaken by a committee of the Islands Trust

[0:18:34] Voice 12: at the time that the Islands Trust policy statement

[0:18:36] Voice 12: and its context was being reviewed.

[0:18:39] Voice 12: That committee found that a desire at that time

[0:18:43] Voice 12: to remove the use of the word address

[0:18:45] Voice 12: at the time the policy statement, and actually still does,

[0:18:50] Voice 12: contained the words, something along the lines of

[0:18:53] Voice 12: that local trust committees must address Subject X in their official community plans.

[0:19:00] Voice 12: And this committee found at the time that more directive policies would likely be more

[0:19:04] Voice 12: beneficial for the Islands Trust, but they also suggested that where they assigned a

[0:19:09] Voice 12: directive policy, they should also provide some sort of explanation for why they've directed

[0:19:15] Voice 12: local trust committees and island municipalities to behave in certain ways.

[0:19:19] Voice 12: And then the briefing provides a short exit from the Local Government Act related mainly to the fact that it's not necessarily unusual for a senior level of government to provide direction to a junior level government on matters that that senior level determines to be of import, if indeed one wants to consider Trust Council to be a senior level to its local trust committee or island municipality juniors.

[0:19:46] Voice 12: and then finally just some brief comment on the benefits and drawbacks of directive versus

[0:19:52] Voice 12: suggestive policies simply you know from a staff perspective and perhaps from a trustee perspective

[0:19:58] Voice 12: as well I've never sat in that chair the more directive a policy is the easier it can be to

[0:20:04] Voice 12: adjudicate whether or not that policy is being satisfied by a particular bylaw or in a particular

[0:20:09] Voice 12: matter that that comes before uh executive committee or trust council for its consideration

[0:20:14] Voice 12: these directive policies are also the mechanism by which trust council can ensure that matters

[0:20:19] Voice 12: of significance to you are addressed in local bylaws in the matter that you want them to be

[0:20:24] Voice 12: on the flip side of course uh and perhaps this is obvious the less directive and more suggestive a

[0:20:29] Voice 12: policy is the more latitude that allows a local trust committee or an island municipality

[0:20:34] Voice 12: in the development of their bylaws and it provides executive committee and trust council with greater

[0:20:38] Voice 12: greater flexibility in determining whether a proposed bylaw may or may not be consistent

[0:20:43] Voice 12: with the policy statement. Ultimately, at the end of the day, of course, it is up to

[0:20:49] Voice 12: executive committee, potentially up to trust council. Should it rise so high, it can be up

[0:20:56] Voice 12: to the minister to make the political decisions about whether these policies are satisfactorily

[0:21:02] Voice 12: addressed by your local trust committees or your LNU municipalities and their bylaws.

[0:21:07] Voice 12: So, thank you, Chair.

[0:21:10] Voice 3: Thank you for that. And I appreciate your distinction between, careful distinction about saying, you know, Trust Council isn't necessarily a senior level of government relative to local trust committees, because there certainly would be some debate about that, probably, if we left that unsaid, you know, or unattached. But as you correctly pointed out, that may not be a particularly relevant point here.

[0:21:35] Voice 3: So there you have it. I mean, it's a straightforward point for this committee to address. The basic take home here is Trust Council has discretion as to how prescriptive it wants a policy to be.

[0:21:56] Voice 3: and the simple but important point here it's not to be taken for granted either way whether

[0:22:02] Voice 3: something should be prescriptive or elective the important point it's something that we need to put

[0:22:09] Voice 3: our minds to when we're addressing each one of these policy issues and it's open to us to

[0:22:15] Voice 3: calibrate how we approach each one of these some may be more prescriptive than others it's it's up

[0:22:22] Voice 3: up to our judgment. Now, do we want to have a discussion about that? Because it's pretty

[0:22:27] Voice 3: central to the whole thing. Well, I see Trustee Fast is saving my bacon by actually raising her

[0:22:40] Voice 3: hand here. Oh, Trustee Getty, thank God, at least two people are interested in this point.

[0:22:44] Voice 3: Okay, Trustee Fast, starting with you.

[0:22:47] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair. I think this is an important point,

[0:22:52] Trustee Fast: and with the people I've talked to who have been trustees in the past from Bowen,

[0:22:58] Trustee Fast: It appears to have been discussed various times through the years.

[0:23:05] Trustee Fast: I think the senior policy advisor made a really good point.

[0:23:10] Trustee Fast: It's at the end of the day, trust council decisions all go to the minister for approval.

[0:23:19] Trustee Fast: And it seems to me that by having directive policies, you make the whole thing clearer

[0:23:27] Trustee Fast: So that members of Bowen Island Municipality, for example, and local trust committees and trust council can all, and executive committee, everybody can all see, is this new bylaw idea, is it in conflict or not?

[0:23:48] Trustee Fast: And it seems to me that the simpler and clearer you can make that question, then the less staff time and the less going back and forth and the more efficient and clear everybody's decisions are.

[0:24:06] Trustee Fast: And I think directive policies help that and help things move along and help everybody have a clearer idea of what's going to happen.

[0:24:19] Trustee Fast: um otherwise i uh i i know a little bit from previous terms you could be waiting for a

[0:24:25] Trustee Fast: minister's decision for six months eight months longer and uh especially if it's something that

[0:24:32] Trustee Fast: um uh is in trust council's um area to make a decision on i think director policies can be

[0:24:42] Trustee Fast: helpful thank you thank

[0:24:43] Voice 3: you trustee getty well

[0:24:46] Voice 15: i think the um i agree with um all that

[0:24:49] Voice 15: what Trustee Fast has just said.

[0:24:51] Voice 15: And I think that the issue isn't whether we can do it.

[0:24:55] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Frozen, Trustee Giddey.

[0:24:57] Voice 15: Really?

[0:24:59] Voice 3: I

[0:24:59] Voice 15: don't know of anything here.

[0:25:01] Voice 15: No,

[0:25:01] Voice 3: she looks alive to me.

[0:25:03] Voice 15: We've had power

[0:25:03] Trustee Fast: outages on board.

[0:25:05] Voice 15: Sorry?

[0:25:09] Voice 15: I can hear her fine.

[0:25:10] Voice 15: I

[0:25:10] Voice 3: think you're fine.

[0:25:11] Voice 3: Please carry on, Trustee Giddey.

[0:25:12] Voice 15: Okay.

[0:25:13] Voice 15: So I don't think there's an issue with whether or not we have the

[0:25:16] Voice 15: jurisdiction to do this.

[0:25:17] Voice 15: And I agree with Trustee Fast in terms of, at least on the first go-round, that it's helpful in terms of being as directive as possible.

[0:25:31] Voice 15: It's cut and clean and straightforward.

[0:25:33] Voice 15: And I think that if going through the process, there's a debate locally and then with the executive committee and then possibly the trust council and ultimately the minister, depending on how hardly thought the decision is going to be, that's where some flexibility can come in and looking at individual circumstances and situations.

[0:25:57] Voice 15: situations. So I think that if something is a decision that's on the borderline that, you know,

[0:26:04] Voice 15: or maybe is pushing some boundaries, that we need to, I think, be fairly clear in terms of where the

[0:26:09] Voice 15: guardrails are, and then think it through in terms of a decision of trust counsel, for instance,

[0:26:15] Voice 15: if it gets to us, so that there can be some flexibility there. And I think that reading

[0:26:22] Voice 15: Reading through all of the directives, there may be some of these that, you know, we don't want to necessarily have as a directive.

[0:26:30] Voice 15: And we're going to have more discussion and debate in terms of whether or not it should be a strong directive as opposed to a should instead of a shall.

[0:26:43] Voice 15: That's a different conversation.

[0:26:44] Voice 15: And I think that we can get into all sorts of details in terms of each individual island's circumstances for some of these in terms of, I don't know, foreshore or forestry or whatever the item might lead to some discussions.

[0:27:03] Voice 15: But I think as a general principle, I think we have the jurisdiction to do it. And I agree with Trustee Fass that it's much simpler just to have the directive and then work on differences if we need to as the process evolves.

[0:27:20] Voice 15: goals.

[0:27:22] Voice 3: And just to follow up on that point, Trustee Getty, the fact that we have that

[0:27:26] Voice 3: jurisdiction, that's, I mean, the senior policy advisor's briefing note is very clear with that

[0:27:32] Voice 3: extract from that legal opinion that, yes, we have that jurisdiction. The question is, how do we

[0:27:36] Voice 3: choose to deal with it? But there's no doubt that we have the jurisdiction to be directive in these

[0:27:39] Voice 3: policies. Trustee Patrick?

[0:27:43] Voice 5: Yeah, I don't have a concern or an issue with the trust policy statement

[0:27:49] Voice 5: containing directive policies, my concern is that the understanding and the purpose of the

[0:27:57] Voice 5: directive policy is what's so important and how we implement them at the island level to achieve

[0:28:04] Voice 5: the overall vision for the region. And so my concern is that the directive policy be understood

[0:28:12] Voice 5: and not open to a lot of interpretation, especially to whatever the executive committee

[0:28:19] Voice 5: is of the day. It shouldn't be interpretive. It should be understood. LTC is working cooperatively

[0:28:25] Voice 5: with their communities, First Nations, and others to develop their bylaws. They want to do it in a

[0:28:30] Voice 5: way that we expect to meet a directive policy. That's why we're doing it. And when we submit

[0:28:35] Voice 5: the bylaw to be approved, we shouldn't be guessing it's going to be approved or not. We should have

[0:28:41] Voice 5: confidence that we understand a directive policy. So I look at sort of our cousin, which is the

[0:28:47] Voice 5: the regional growth strategies and observed that, you know, prior to 1983, it was a hierarchical

[0:28:54] Voice 5: program where the regional district told the municipalities what to do. Well, that wasn't

[0:28:59] Voice 5: abolished in 1983. And they went to a cooperative process. And our mandate, we're supposed to

[0:29:07] Voice 5: preserve and protect in cooperation with a whole bunch of people. So I think with 1983,

[0:29:14] Voice 5: 1983 abandoning a hierarchical approach. And then in 1989, when our trust policy statement showed up

[0:29:21] Voice 5: in the act, I don't, I think the province clearly expected it to be cooperative. And that's working

[0:29:27] Voice 5: closely with the local trust committees on understanding each directive policy. And the

[0:29:34] Voice 5: difference in what we're missing is context statements that the regional strategies have.

[0:29:40] Voice 5: have. And the urban systems, when they, in the 2015 report, had mentioned, there's no reason,

[0:29:48] Voice 5: the act does not stop us from bringing context statements into our OCPs. And I think that's

[0:29:57] Voice 5: something we should be looking at at the implementation phase.

[0:30:00] Voice 5: for this is to have that really clear understanding and that clear

[0:30:03] Voice 5: next steps so that we have that confidence that we all understand

[0:30:07] Voice 5: what a directive statement is and it shouldn't be an interpretive item.

[0:30:13] Voice 3: Thank you. Trustee Harris? Thank

[0:30:24] Voice 18: you, Chair Bernardo.

[0:30:26] Voice 18: Thank you for that.

[0:30:30] Voice 18: I'm very apprehensive with the thought of

[0:30:34] Voice 18: having directive policies coming from Trust Council

[0:30:38] Voice 18: Council towards LTCs. You know, just with the thought of what went into the letter into the

[0:30:45] Voice 18: province recently, highlighting most specifically the undemocratic representation aspect of Trust

[0:30:54] Voice 18: Council, it's not difficult for me to draw a conclusion between these issues and how it can

[0:31:03] Voice 18: be very troublesome to many in the community to have um you know directives coming down from trust

[0:31:08] Voice 18: council towards an island especially in salt spring islands um situation you know are we

[0:31:14] Voice 18: going to have it's pretty clear the undemocratic representation aspect does not it's not going to

[0:31:19] Voice 18: go over well having a directive approach taken from trust council towards the ltcs so um that's

[0:31:26] Voice 18: That's my very large concern.

[0:31:29] Voice 18: Thank you for hearing.

[0:31:32] Voice 3: Thank you.

[0:31:33] Voice 3: Trustee Boland.

[0:31:36] Voice 11: Thanks.

[0:31:38] Voice 11: What I find is that at one extreme, a directive policy could be as it was before it was removed,

[0:31:46] Voice 11: you will never use desalination or you will never contemplate having docks.

[0:31:52] Voice 11: Those were contemplated as directive policies and they were removed, but they were very

[0:31:59] Voice 11: clear and very specific what i find now is that the difference between the advisory and directive

[0:32:06] Voice 11: policies are very nebulous and you know the content is very similar and you could you know

[0:32:16] Voice 11: it just becomes repetitive and a bit confusing so i'll give you an example under reconciliation

[0:32:24] Voice 11: conciliation 3.11 it's uh engage with indigenous government governance governing bodies and provide

[0:32:32] Voice 11: a record of the engagement okay provide a record of the engagement that's quite specific

[0:32:37] Voice 11: and arguably could be a directive policy although i don't see that it's incredibly useful because

[0:32:43] Voice 11: we should be doing that anyway but at least it's quite specific then under advisory policies there's

[0:32:49] Voice 11: engage with indigenous governing bodies on discretionary planning etc that may have

[0:32:54] Voice 11: potential significant impact so it's a repetition of the same content in the two with but at least

[0:33:01] Voice 11: in the first which is the directive policy there's something very specific but if you move on to

[0:33:06] Voice 11: objective two it's basically repetitive between the directive and the advisory policies and you

[0:33:14] Voice 11: need to read them very very very carefully to see if there's any content difference or any

[0:33:19] Voice 11: reason why it belongs in one and not the other i mean i would suggest that these in this particular

[0:33:26] Voice 11: instance they could be merged and we would lose nothing um other than the distinction between a

[0:33:32] Voice 11: fish trap and a fish um something a fish a weir and a fish trap so anyway i just feel that they're

[0:33:41] Voice 11: an unnecessary confusion. We should be given advice, advisory policies, and we should be

[0:33:51] Voice 11: measured against those. And we should always hear them and consider them. But we don't have content

[0:33:58] Voice 11: that is specific enough to put into a directive policy. And I think we should resist it, to be

[0:34:03] Voice 11: honest. And if we want to have content that might be suitable for directive policy, it should be

[0:34:10] Voice 11: actually in the form of a dashboard um you know or a checklist are we accomplishing these things

[0:34:16] Voice 11: but i don't think they may shift they may change i don't think putting them into the trust policy

[0:34:23] Voice 11: statement is the appropriate way to um execute them thanks thank

[0:34:29] Voice 3: you let's see peterson yeah

[0:34:33] Voice 17: thank you um so my view is that this question it's it's the it's the essential tension between

[0:34:41] Voice 17: the autonomy of local trust committees and the direction of of the federation through trust

[0:34:48] Voice 17: council um i think it's important to note that the current version of the policy statement

[0:34:54] Voice 17: contains like several uh directive policies and that those directive policies

[0:35:03] Voice 17: are used via a checklist um for the executive committee to determine whether

[0:35:10] Voice 17: whether local trust committee bylaws are to be signed off

[0:35:19] Voice 17: by the executive or not.

[0:35:23] Voice 17: Even within the current version, there's still a certain amount

[0:35:27] Voice 17: of ambiguity, interpretation possible.

[0:35:31] Voice 17: So the question to me is less about whether we should have them or not,

[0:35:35] Voice 17: but how clear they are, as mentioned, how open to interpretation they are.

[0:35:40] Voice 17: And then, of course, which policies are directive policies.

[0:35:47] Voice 17: And, of course, that is at the will of Trust Council.

[0:35:51] Voice 17: So I'll just leave it there for now.

[0:35:54] Voice 7: Trustee Elliott.

[0:35:57] Voice 6: So I'd like to go back to Trustee Bull on your point on Objective 2.

[0:36:03] Voice 6: We discussed this at length at an in-camera meeting in the Committee of the Whole with Legal Counsel.

[0:36:09] Voice 6: And so the words are very specific and are very important. The directive policy to address potential impacts is well within our purview as a land use planning organization that we determine which level of impact to Indigenous cultural heritage sites is acceptable or not.

[0:36:31] Voice 6: um an advisory policy if you look at 3.2.3 to identify and protect indigenous cultural

[0:36:40] Voice 6: heritage sites the protection of cultural heritage sites is under the bc heritage act

[0:36:48] Voice 6: and so you know you're quite often talking about the islands trust expanding its scope and

[0:36:55] Voice 6: not trying to do things that we're not supposed to do so this is exactly us staying in our lane

[0:37:01] Voice 6: with advocating for the protection of cultural heritage sites

[0:37:06] Voice 6: that are known, but we can't say that we will necessarily identify

[0:37:12] Voice 6: and protect those.

[0:37:14] Voice 6: So distinctions are very important.

[0:37:17] Voice 6: That's why advisory policies need to be here,

[0:37:20] Voice 6: and this was a significant change from the early draft

[0:37:24] Voice 6: of the policy statement.

[0:37:27] Voice 6: So I just think we need to read very carefully

[0:37:30] Voice 6: and not just gloss over and say, well, everything looks the same,

[0:37:32] Voice 6: so why have these advisory policies?

[0:37:35] Voice 6: They're different and distinct for a reason,

[0:37:37] Voice 6: and we've already had that conversation.

[0:37:39] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:37:41] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:37:41] Voice 3: Trustee Getty?

[0:37:44] Voice 15: Similar sorts of comments with respect to the, let's see,

[0:37:50] Voice 15: Objective 1, Advancing Reconciliation.

[0:37:53] Voice 15: My reading of that, the directive policy,

[0:37:56] Voice 15: is when we're talking about official community plans and amendments

[0:37:59] Voice 15: And that we have to show, and this, I think the Conservancy five-year plan was rejected by the minister because there wasn't a record of engagement at the time that it was brought forward.

[0:38:14] Voice 15: And the advisory policy is with respect to any other discretionary planning and land use management, so that we need to be mindful, but we don't necessarily have to make sure that.

[0:38:30] Voice 15: It's often difficult in terms of a governing body of the First Nations having capacity to deal with all of our questions.

[0:38:37] Voice 15: So if we have an official community plan that's going to be the document that guides the land use planning, then we're going to be a little bit more rigid on that.

[0:38:49] Voice 15: But if there's discretionary planning that we're going to try and do our best, but it's not the same demand and requirement by the minister.

[0:38:57] Voice 15: And I think that it's important to go through all of these kinds of questions and distinctions so that we all understand the same, what it is that we're trying to do with the different, what's the difference between the directive and the advisory.

[0:39:12] Voice 15: So, that's, I understand Trustee Boland's question and how they look very similar, but I guess because I'm far too used to, I'm like a copy editor where I look at each word and I guess I don't have very many gray areas.

[0:39:33] Voice 15: There's a lot of black and white when I look at these kinds of documents. And I think that these kinds of discussions can be very helpful in terms of sorting out where some of the questions and confusions are. So that's my take of that objective one.

[0:39:50] Voice 3: Trustee Fast?

[0:39:51] Voice 3: Chair,

[0:39:53] Trustee Fast: I just wanted to add a different point. And that is that here's what's called the directives only checklist. And it's several pages. I'm sure many people have, trustees here have seen it.

[0:40:06] Trustee Fast: This is really useful to Bowen Island municipality staff, of which we have a number.

[0:40:14] Trustee Fast: And if any other island municipalities come to pass, but also for regional districts or any kind of organization or business or agency that might be doing, have proposals for the Islands Trust area, for land in the Islands Trust area.

[0:40:34] Trustee Fast: It's really clear. These are the directive policies that a project or a proposal will be checked against. Very efficient and clear. So I think it has a communications function as well. Thank you.

[0:40:50] Voice 3: Thank you. And nobody else is their hand up at the moment. So I thought I might jump in with a couple of comments. I'm struck by some comments from some of the trustees here.

[0:41:01] Voice 3: The first one I want to address is Trustee Patrick's point, which I think has great practical value, as I understand it.

[0:41:11] Voice 3: I mean, what she's basically saying is the more direct of a policy is, the more important it is that it be stated as precisely and clearly as possible.

[0:41:19] Voice 3: And that just sounds like common sense to me.

[0:41:21] Voice 3: If you have a policy that's intended to be directive, it's really not a good idea to sort of throw in, you know, this type of work, to be honest.

[0:41:30] Voice 3: I mean, there's a temptation to put in a lot of warm language rhetoric about, you know, what we're trying to do.

[0:41:34] Voice 3: And it's all good stuff. You know, it's warm feeling stuff.

[0:41:38] Voice 3: Aspirational language. It's probably a good idea to leave that to the side and just be as precise and exact as possible about what you want the LTC to do.

[0:41:48] Voice 3: And you being very clear that you want them to do it and to keep that language as dry and clear as possible.

[0:41:54] Voice 3: So I think that's a good point.

[0:41:55] Voice 3: I think that's a good thought for us to carry on going forward.

[0:42:00] Voice 3: um and then trustee harris and trustee peterson had a couple of interrelated comments about the

[0:42:04] Voice 3: direct nature of the trust policy statement and uh you know it it is uh it is a directive policy

[0:42:14] Voice 3: as trustee peterson pointed out the nature of it is it it's it's designed to restrict

[0:42:19] Voice 3: um a local trust committee's discretion because there's been a collective agreement that we should

[0:42:25] Voice 3: go in a specific direction in a specific area and so um in that respect that does raise that

[0:42:33] Voice 3: that interconnects there with trustee harris's point which is some unease about the fact that

[0:42:38] Voice 3: trust council uh you know it's a you know we don't have to belabor it but the whole

[0:42:44] Voice 3: representation by population problem problem and i would think that to the extent that

[0:42:52] Voice 3: that we have directive policies in the trust policy statement that'll you know it points in

[0:43:00] Voice 3: the direction of us wanting to have at a minimum a majority of trustees who who collectively

[0:43:07] Voice 3: represent not less than half of the population in the trust area that when we finally get down to

[0:43:14] Voice 3: the last thing and trust council approves the trust policy statement I think we have to be

[0:43:19] Voice 3: be mindful that if we want it to be legitimate in terms of restricting discretion at the local

[0:43:24] Voice 3: trust committee level, it's going to need to be passed by a majority of the population of the

[0:43:30] Voice 3: trust area. It's not something we have to resolve or debate now, but these are thoughts that come

[0:43:34] Voice 3: to mind when we discuss this directive issue. And I've actually got a question for the trustees

[0:43:42] Voice 3: from Bowen Island. There's a letter that came on October 31st from Bowen Island Council,

[0:43:47] Voice 3: and i'm wondering if it's at all related and i and i hope i'm not taking us down some rabbit

[0:43:52] Voice 3: hole here but one of the things about bone island council is saying it's it's as i understand it i

[0:43:58] Voice 3: hope i'm not wrong about this it doesn't really want to trust fund the trust policy statement

[0:44:03] Voice 3: work because it hasn't been consulted further to the protocol agreement it has with us

[0:44:08] Voice 3: does that and i i don't want to get into the merits of that and the reason i'm asking is that

[0:44:12] Voice 3: the trustees from bone island does that intersect at all with the directive versus elective thing

[0:44:17] Voice 3: Is there some unease over there at Bowen Island about being told what to do by Trust Council when it hasn't been consulted further, the protocol agreement and Trustee Getty?

[0:44:32] Voice 15: How to phrase this?

[0:44:34] Voice 15: Okay, so that was in the letter.

[0:44:36] Voice 15: I don't remember that from the conversation at Council, and I've asked for clarification.

[0:44:41] Voice 15: education. But in terms of all of the different things that were talked about at council,

[0:44:47] Voice 15: there was a plebiscite that passed during the last election that we haven't dealt with that

[0:44:54] Voice 15: talked about value for money in terms of representation on the trust. And there's been

[0:45:00] Voice 15: a very high number that's attached to the budget discussions. It is quite alarming in terms of the

[0:45:09] Voice 15: the most recent budget first draft and that's of some concern and it's all coupled with

[0:45:19] Voice 15: we haven't been having meetings that we wanted to have with respect to our memorandum of

[0:45:25] Voice 15: understanding and we haven't had a chance to we haven't had any consultation in terms of

[0:45:32] Voice 15: of this, the letter that went out that has pretty significant ramifications for the legislation.

[0:45:40] Voice 15: And there was another point.

[0:45:45] Voice 15: Joellen's got her hand up, so maybe Trustee Fast can help fill in that blank.

[0:45:49] Voice 15: But there were a number of concerns.

[0:45:51] Voice 15: I don't, the question of our funding questions and budget questions being directly linked

[0:46:00] Voice 15: to the policy statement, or last year I had questions in terms of it being directly linked

[0:46:06] Voice 15: to conservancy funding, I think is not helpful. And I think that we need to discuss

[0:46:15] Voice 15: the complexity of all of these issues. So yes, it's in the letter. I'm not sure that that was

[0:46:21] Voice 15: the intention of council. We'll get clarification. Okay. Like I

[0:46:26] Voice 3: said before, I don't want us to

[0:46:27] Voice 3: turn this into some right herring that's a distraction but it struck me that i don't

[0:46:32] Voice 3: know anything about it and i thought maybe it's related to the directive issue but it doesn't

[0:46:36] Voice 3: sound like it sounds like it's a much more complicated relationship talk uh trustee fest

[0:46:43] Trustee Fast: just to say chair thank you um that uh bowen has been a municipality for 25 years now and part of

[0:46:50] Trustee Fast: the reason i believe that uh bowen voted to be a municipality within the islands trust not outside

[0:46:57] Trustee Fast: side of it it voted that down but to be a municipality within the islands trust is that

[0:47:03] Trustee Fast: it felt it could be uh fairly independent and be a member of islands trust uh regional community

[0:47:11] Trustee Fast: and um so all this time we've been using the same set of directive policies and uh i have never heard

[0:47:19] Trustee Fast: a um complaint by staff or by sitting councils about any problem with the directive policies

[0:47:26] Trustee Fast: even though independence was part of what I believe

[0:47:33] Trustee Fast: the impetus to become a municipality was.

[0:47:36] Trustee Fast: So I don't find that there,

[0:47:39] Trustee Fast: let's just say directive policies are not in conflict

[0:47:43] Trustee Fast: with local decision-making

[0:47:47] Trustee Fast: and they're efficient and easy to use.

[0:47:52] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[0:47:53] Voice 3: Okay, thank you both for answering my question there.

[0:47:55] Voice 3: Trustee Harris.

[0:47:59] Voice 18: Thank you. And thank you for mentioning the idea of the policy statement being passed by more than 50% of the population.

[0:48:11] Voice 18: It's clearly a given in my mind and many people's minds in the communities that this is something that is a must.

[0:48:20] Voice 18: So I look forward to more robust conversation over that as this progresses. Thank you.

[0:48:25] Voice 18: Thanks.

[0:48:30] Voice 15: Before I went down your other rabbit hole, I had a question with respect to your comment about a directive should be very specific and less aspirational language.

[0:48:41] Voice 15: And Tracey Patrick indicated in her description that there were often very clear, precise directives and then some sort of a context statement.

[0:48:53] Voice 15: and I'm wondering what that I'm not sure what that is and that might be helpful in terms of

[0:48:59] Voice 15: getting I don't know that that is necessarily on hand and readily available but that kind of a

[0:49:04] Voice 15: process might be helpful in terms of understanding what that that is and with respect to changing the

[0:49:12] Voice 15: voting I'd be interested in one of the things that I thought about post vote on the letter to the

[0:49:21] Voice 15: province, because that was such a fairly close vote. And had it been, you know, a special

[0:49:31] Voice 15: reason to have, we've also got another voting process that doesn't apply to that situation,

[0:49:36] Voice 15: but we might want to think about, and it's a question that I, if I'd been able to get to the

[0:49:41] Voice 15: governance committee, I might have raised it to, for consideration, but should we have

[0:49:47] Voice 15: of uh consideration and this is another rabbit hole that has nothing to do with tonight's topic

[0:49:52] Voice 15: but um if we're going to be changing votes um should it be on matters that have um you know

[0:50:01] Voice 15: policy statements or uh changes to the legislature or something that's sort of at a higher level

[0:50:07] Voice 15: that's more important that we have a greater majority whether it's i don't know what the

[0:50:12] Voice 15: difficulties would be in terms of figuring out uh by population and whether or not that would

[0:50:17] Voice 15: would be complicated or easy. Offhand, I would think it would be complicated in terms of figuring

[0:50:22] Voice 15: out how things get weighted. And I don't know if it's necessarily in the legislation to allow for

[0:50:31] Voice 15: that. And I think the question has come back in the past on that issue. But yeah, I think for some

[0:50:40] Voice 15: of these issues, we should think about having a weighted vote or having some sort of a more

[0:50:44] Voice 15: more substantial other than simple majority because I think they're important.

[0:50:50] Voice 3: Yeah, I don't know how we solve it either. It's just a question. Really, it's not an answer so

[0:50:54] Voice 3: much as that. Trustee Patrick, you've heard from Trustee Getty. She's curious about what you mean

[0:50:59] Voice 3: by a context statement. Are you able to briefly explain what that is?

[0:51:04] Voice 5: Sure, I can do the best I

[0:51:06] Voice 5: can. There's a whole manual at the province and I can share the link on regional districts use

[0:51:14] Voice 5: regional growth strategies. And the legislation introduced three tools. One is the regional

[0:51:25] Voice 5: growth. Sorry, I'm trying to scroll through my notes here. One is the regional growth strategy.

[0:51:32] Voice 5: The other is a context statement. So what it requires, like I'll use the CRD, for example,

[0:51:38] Voice 5: the Capital Regional District, after it created its regional growth strategy in cooperation with

[0:51:44] Voice 5: all the municipalities, it gave them two years to create a context statement to go with their OCP,

[0:51:50] Voice 5: which is basically, here's how we have addressed the items that were in it. So here it is,

[0:51:58] Voice 5: a regional context statement forms a portion of the municipality's official community plan

[0:52:03] Voice 5: that sets out the relationship between the regional growth strategy and the municipality's

[0:52:08] Voice 5: plan and um that's what it is all

[0:52:14] Voice 3: right thank you for that uh as i said at the outset of this

[0:52:19] Voice 3: we don't want to spend all night talking about this and you know it's i think it's important

[0:52:24] Voice 3: that we have had the discussion in order for trustees to be at least um seized of this

[0:52:31] Voice 3: distinction and understand that they actually do have this discretion and that it's a question

[0:52:35] Voice 3: that applies to each one of these policies.

[0:52:37] Voice 3: Unless anybody has any further comments,

[0:52:40] Voice 3: I think we've had a reasonably full discussion,

[0:52:43] Voice 3: at least for tonight, on this.

[0:52:44] Voice 3: It is a conceptual issue.

[0:52:45] Voice 3: There's nothing to decide.

[0:52:46] Voice 3: Unless anybody has something pressing to add,

[0:52:49] Voice 3: I'm inclined to...

[0:52:51] Voice 3: Oh, here we go, Trustee Getty.

[0:52:53] Voice 15: Not pressing.

[0:52:54] Voice 15: At some point, are we planning on going through

[0:52:57] Voice 15: and having some detailed discussions

[0:52:59] Voice 15: about kind of what we did with Trustee Boland's comments

[0:53:05] Voice 15: about, for instance, reconciliation and why there's distinctions and how they might be

[0:53:11] Voice 15: interpreted and which ones we want to stay as directives and which one would be less

[0:53:16] Voice 15: directive?

[0:53:17] Voice 15: Is that part of the process?

[0:53:19] Voice 3: I think we address that, the directive versus less directive issue.

[0:53:25] Voice 3: I think we simply deal with that as we address each item as we come to it.

[0:53:30] Voice 3: so at the conclusion of this discussion here uh we would be moving on to item 5.2 which is getting

[0:53:35] Voice 3: back into the heavy lifting of looking at the the draft trust policy statement and i anticipate

[0:53:41] Voice 3: probably the first thing we're going to look at is to pick up the string that got dropped um

[0:53:45] Voice 3: and that trustee fast brought to our attention uh that last item on the follow-up action list

[0:53:50] Voice 3: that's probably the first thing we should address since we have quorum now uh and then we'll just

[0:53:54] Voice 3: proceed in the sequential way that we had previously agreed and that we'll deal with

[0:53:58] Voice 3: the directive versus selective aspect as we take them one by one the point of this wasn't to answer

[0:54:04] Voice 3: all of that up front it's simply to sensitize people to um the dimensions of this of this

[0:54:10] Voice 3: distinction basically so unless anybody has any further comments about this uh i propose that we

[0:54:16] Voice 3: move on to item point 5.2 and start drilling into the trust policy statement directly and with that

[0:54:22] Voice 3: I would happily lob some responsibility in the direction of Director Frater to sort of

[0:54:31] Voice 3: reintroduce us to this and help us pick up that last item that went into hibernation

[0:54:37] Voice 3: at the conclusion of the last meeting. Director Frater.

[0:54:41] Voice 10: Yes, Chair. So we have two options on

[0:54:43] Voice 10: the way to proceed here. One is we could unshare the PDF now and share the track changes version

[0:54:49] Voice 10: version of the document. The other is we could bring up the minutes so you can easily see how

[0:54:53] Voice 10: on screen the motion that was left off last time. Is there a particular path you'd like to take at

[0:54:59] Voice 10: this point in time in terms of screen sharing?

[0:55:01] Voice 3: What is going to be the easiest thing for the

[0:55:03] Voice 3: trustees to follow?

[0:55:05] Voice 10: I think if you're wanting to reconsider the motion that had been left off last

[0:55:08] Voice 10: time, we could move to that page of the minutes and bring that on screen for you. And then you

[0:55:13] Voice 10: could talk about that. And then we can unshare this PDF and then share the policy statement.

[0:55:18] Voice 3: all right let's do it that way let's go to the minutes and and look at the specific motion

[0:55:22] Voice 3: because that's that's the thing that was just um we weren't able to decide because uh we'd lost

[0:55:29] Voice 3: quorum i see trustee faster has her hand up uh

[0:55:42] Trustee Fast: thank you chair i'm with regards to this motion

[0:55:45] Trustee Fast: which was moved and seconded but then we lost quorum um i would like to make an amendment

[0:55:51] Voice 3: i actually before we proceed with that i'd like to ask a question of director

[0:55:54] Voice 3: Dr. Marder, in terms of what the status is of this motion that was, you know, basically

[0:56:05] Voice 3: frozen in place at the end of the last meeting. Do we have to do anything in order to resume

[0:56:09] Voice 3: discussion of it? Or is it just taken as a given that it is still a motion on the floor?

[0:56:15] Voice 14: Yeah, that's a good question, because you lost quorum. So I would just take it that you can

[0:56:22] Voice 14: continue where you left off now that you have quorum uh so you just might want to just confirm

[0:56:26] Voice 14: everybody's okay we're doing that uh the way

[0:56:30] Voice 3: i'll do that is like does anybody object uh to us

[0:56:34] Voice 3: picking this up on the basis that we lost quorum and now having resumed quorum we're going to treat

[0:56:39] Voice 3: this as a motion that is remains on the floor and remains to be resolved if anybody objects to that

[0:56:44] Voice 3: let's let's hear from you now nope so we're going to treat this as a motion it's still alive uh it's

[0:56:51] Voice 3: It's the unfinished business from last time.

[0:56:52] Voice 3: We're going to pick it up and resolve it now.

[0:56:54] Voice 3: The resolution as written is before you, and it's open for discussion.

[0:57:00] Voice 3: And as part of that, Trustee Fast has proposed that she has an amendment that she wants to offer to this resolution on the floor.

[0:57:09] Voice 3: So please state your amendment, and we'll go from there.

[0:57:14] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair.

[0:57:14] Trustee Fast: My amendment, reading this more carefully and thinking about some of the culturally committed workshops I've been at recently, including where I heard that a park had been closed down because the First Nation wanted to harvest, but there were all these recreational people watching them and looking at them through binoculars.

[0:57:38] Trustee Fast: I wanted to suggest that we insert the words after, right before the word, the end, right before it says is minimal, harvesting and hunting areas and access to these areas is minimal.

[0:57:57] Trustee Fast: So I'd like to, I move that the words and access to these areas, comma, be inserted before is minimal.

[0:58:06] Trustee Fast: And I'm trying to send this email.

[0:58:11] Voice 3: I'm trying to try to follow the language here.

[0:58:18] Voice 3: So are you saying you want to ensure that the negative impacts of access are minimal?

[0:58:25] Voice 3: I

[0:58:27] Trustee Fast: would like to ensure that Indigenous peoples have a way to get to their harvesting and cultural heritage areas and hunting areas.

[0:58:37] Trustee Fast: areas because what happened maybe it's different on some islands but I know I've been to several

[0:58:42] Trustee Fast: you can arrive on the shoreline and you have to cross private property to get

[0:58:49] Trustee Fast: into words any public land or you know on Bowen for example you can arrive on the ferry

[0:58:57] Trustee Fast: and as an indigenous people you could be driving in a car but to get up onto Mount Gardner

[0:59:04] Trustee Fast: there's only a couple of little access points most of the access is through private properties

[0:59:11] Trustee Fast: they they're sort of all in a line in a subdivision and um so i i had heard uh in some of these

[0:59:20] Trustee Fast: cultural sessions that um access to the hunting areas and the cultural areas and the harvesting

[0:59:29] Trustee Fast: areas is also an issue. And we might want to put it in the directive policy statement,

[0:59:37] Trustee Fast: this policy here, in order that everybody is reminded to think about it before big decisions

[0:59:46] Trustee Fast: are made or before the First Nation has to bring it up as a special issue. I don't know,

[0:59:58] Trustee Fast: Maybe it's different on other islands.

[1:00:00] Trustee Fast: But that's my word wording. That's why I want to add the words after harvesting and hunting areas, comma, and access to these areas, comma, be inserted before is minimal.

[1:00:14] Trustee Fast: I hope that is

[1:00:15] Voice 3: access by whom? I'm assuming you don't mean access by the you're not talking about limiting access by Indigenous people, obviously.

[1:00:23] Voice 3: So that must mean non-Indigenous access. Is that what you mean?

[1:00:27] Trustee Fast: Actually, one of the other drafts I could say is,

[1:00:31] Trustee Fast: and access to these areas by Indigenous peoples is minimal.

[1:00:39] Trustee Fast: The negative impacts on development.

[1:00:43] Voice 3: I'm sorry,

[1:00:44] Voice 3: but it seems that the language you're talking about

[1:00:47] Voice 3: would end up suggesting there'd be kind of a limitation

[1:00:51] Voice 3: and restriction on Indigenous people.

[1:00:53] Voice 11: No, read the first clause.

[1:00:55] Voice 11: It's ensure that the negative impacts of development

[1:00:59] Voice 11: development is minimal that's so it's not to make the access minimal it's to ensure that the

[1:01:06] Voice 11: negative impact is minimal it's a bit of an awkward sentence now you need to make sure your

[1:01:12] Voice 11: commas are in the right place well

[1:01:15] Voice 3: i'm i'm uh you know what i'm gonna stop interfering here and um

[1:01:19] Voice 3: we don't have a seconder but i do yet at least but i do see that we have um a director for

[1:01:24] Voice 3: freighter freighter has uh helpfully raised her hand and may rescue me uh please proceed um i'll

[1:01:31] Voice 10: simply note this might be one where you want to ask staff to come back to you with some options

[1:01:35] Voice 10: for language on this one um i'll note that further down in the document you're going to get some

[1:01:39] Voice 10: policies that actually direct um our directive policies around creating public access to things

[1:01:46] Voice 10: like shoreline um so this might be one where you want us to come back to you to assess it in the

[1:01:51] Voice 10: the context of those other public access policies vis-a-vis this. So just put that out there. You

[1:01:56] Voice 10: could request that staff come back to you with policy recommendations on this topic if that was

[1:02:01] Voice 10: suitable.

[1:02:02] Voice 3: Well, we have this motion on the floor and then we have this, and you've heard Trustee

[1:02:07] Voice 3: Fass about the direction she wants to go in. If we table this for a short period during this

[1:02:13] Voice 3: meeting, would we be able to come back to this motion and address it with any suggested wording

[1:02:17] Voice 3: you might have at that point or would it be a longer wait i

[1:02:21] Voice 10: think we would want to come back

[1:02:22] Voice 10: to you with some written options and not do it quite so on the fly okay

[1:02:26] Voice 3: so uh your one option

[1:02:28] Voice 3: you're offering us is that we simply table this particular motion to the next meeting um so that

[1:02:34] Voice 3: you can do that work but that would be subject to the group as a whole uh wishing to go in the

[1:02:40] Voice 3: direction that trustee fast is suggesting and i see trustee elliott has her hand up so um over to

[1:02:46] Voice 3: you um

[1:02:49] Voice 6: thank you chair i had attempted to rewrite this and put it in the chat just to see if it

[1:02:56] Voice 6: could be worded more accurately and then realized the challenge with the word access is access for

[1:03:02] Voice 6: whom um there are many um cultural heritage sites that indigenous peoples do not want the public to

[1:03:10] Voice 6: have access to, and that information is privately held and not shared. So I think these are two

[1:03:20] Voice 6: separate issues. Access for Indigenous people to their sites for cultural heritage harvesting and

[1:03:28] Voice 6: hunting should not be restricted 100%. The negative potential impacts due to development

[1:03:35] Voice 6: on those sites should be minimal and i think these are um two separate things and i would

[1:03:42] Voice 6: want to see if staff can come back with some options thank you well

[1:03:47] Voice 3: it sounds like you

[1:03:48] Voice 3: following up on what director freighter said that the deal with the access issue i mean the

[1:03:52] Voice 3: suggestion there was possibly deal with the access issue completely separately from this point

[1:03:56] Voice 3: but still wouldn't miss the direction the trustee fast is going in just to be dealt elsewhere uh

[1:04:02] Voice 3: Trustee Borswick?

[1:04:05] Voice 16: Yeah, I was actually going to say somewhat in a different direction.

[1:04:09] Voice 16: To me, ensuring that the negative impacts of development on these things is minimal implies access to those spaces.

[1:04:26] Voice 16: To me, that's inherent in, you know, a space that's culturally significant or, you know, used for harvesting and hunting is useless if no one can get to it.

[1:04:38] Voice 16: So to me, it's implied that that's in there.

[1:04:41] Voice 16: Yeah, that's just my ten cents.

[1:04:43] Voice 16: I'm absolutely open to hearing from staff further down the line.

[1:04:47] Voice 3: Thank you.

[1:04:48] Voice 3: Trustee Graham?

[1:04:52] Voice 19: Yes, thank you, Chair.

[1:04:53] Voice 19: I really would like to take advantage of Director Frater's offer.

[1:04:56] Voice 19: We often, as trustees, find ourselves trying to wordsmith.

[1:05:00] Voice 19: We spend a lot of time to do this, and it's not good use of our time.

[1:05:04] Voice 19: Director Frater is intimately involved with the creation and working of this language and all of her staff.

[1:05:11] Voice 19: So let's take advantage of that and move on.

[1:05:14] Voice 3: Thank you.

[1:05:15] Voice 3: um i've actually got a question here um um about the the i think the questions i guess directed to

[1:05:27] Voice 3: director freighter um yet again um we say here uh in truth the negative impacts on development

[1:05:37] Voice 3: on indigenous cultural heritage and harvesting and hunting areas is minimal what is um i i'm

[1:05:46] Voice 3: just looking at those words and i'm wondering about the precision here like what is an

[1:05:50] Voice 3: indigenous cultural heritage harvesting or hunting area like uh what does that encompass does it

[1:05:57] Voice 3: encompass crown land private land that has cultural uh features to it i'm just looking at it and

[1:06:05] Voice 3: seeing it's a very broad statement that um would seem to apply to both private and public lands and

[1:06:12] Voice 3: And I guess I'm trying to understand what is the actual practical scope of that language?

[1:06:18] Voice 3: Director Frater, can you answer that?

[1:06:20] Voice 10: I will, but I'll turn to one of our land use planners to speak to it more specifically.

[1:06:25] Voice 10: But I can tell you, yes, it would be both crown and private land.

[1:06:29] Voice 10: It would encompass both.

[1:06:31] Voice 10: Perhaps I'll see if the director of planning or our senior policy advisor would like to take on that answer from a land use planning perspective.

[1:06:37] Voice 10: I will also note that, before I think someone puts their hand up, you are also as a local

[1:06:43] Voice 10: trust committee able to define what it is through heritage conservation areas, right?

[1:06:48] Voice 10: So through that tool, the local trust committee can self-determine what it believes for heritage,

[1:06:55] Voice 10: what those areas are to be.

[1:06:56] Voice 10: But I'll see if anyone's willing to take that on from the land use planning perspective.

[1:07:06] Voice 14: Go ahead.

[1:07:06] Voice 14: chair go ahead

[1:07:08] Voice 14: yeah so um the local government act does allow um local trust committees to

[1:07:15] Voice 14: develop heritage conservation areas and um well that's usually around real property there's

[1:07:23] Voice 14: nothing in the act saying it can't be for uh cultural um conservation like the heritage of

[1:07:30] Voice 14: first nations um so the work would have to be done with first nations to

[1:07:34] Voice 14: you know identify and determine what and how to protect it they work kind of like

[1:07:41] Voice 14: development permit areas all

[1:07:44] Voice 3: right thank you trustee fast thank

[1:07:46] Trustee Fast: you chair I'm

[1:07:47] Trustee Fast: hearing the discussion and the thank you everybody I'm withdrawing my unseconded

[1:07:55] Trustee Fast: motion and I drafted something there that I hope will help that I move that

[1:08:02] Trustee Fast: that the Committee of the Whole requests staff to come back with suggestions regarding access for or ensuring access for Indigenous people.

[1:08:12] Trustee Fast: If the word ensuring can be in front of access, ensuring access for Indigenous peoples, if that's clear enough for this Committee of the Whole.

[1:08:23] Trustee Fast: I just think, you know, another idea, your point, Chair, about areas is salient, I think, because negative impacts on areas, you want to ensure that that impact on areas is minimal, but also on practices is minimal, and on access is a whole bunch of things here.

[1:08:47] Trustee Fast: And regarding Trustee Borthwick's point, I wish it were so that access were a given, but I haven't seen any indication of that.

[1:08:57] Trustee Fast: And I heard from the First Nations folks who were presenting to us that it could be a real issue to get to some of these places that they want to go.

[1:09:09] Trustee Fast: So I don't think access is a given yet.

[1:09:12] Trustee Fast: And so I move that the committee, the whole request staff,

[1:09:15] Trustee Fast: come back with suggestions regarding ensuring access for Indigenous peoples.

[1:09:20] Voice 3: Do we have a seconder for that motion?

[1:09:24] Voice 3: I see Trustee Getty has raised her hand.

[1:09:26] Voice 3: She is seconding.

[1:09:28] Voice 3: Chair, I have a...

[1:09:29] Voice 3: Yes, go ahead, Director Marlowe.

[1:09:31] Voice 14: Yeah, it's just procedural.

[1:09:33] Voice 14: You have a main motion already, which is the first one by Trustee Elliott

[1:09:37] Voice 14: and Trustee Bernardo.

[1:09:39] Voice 14: So this should be an amendment to that.

[1:09:41] Voice 14: But if you want to go to another main motion, you should dispose of the first one first, either vote it down and then put this one on the floor.

[1:09:49] Voice 3: Well, I think that's pretty

[1:09:50] Voice 3: straightforward. Thank you for that. That's an important point.

[1:09:53] Voice 3: I'm going to suggest the motion's been made. And so just so we can get over this procedural hurdle, we'll just park that for a moment.

[1:10:01] Voice 3: The one that Trustee Fass has just made. And we won't discuss it or deal with it until after we've resolved what we want to do with the motion on the floor right now.

[1:10:11] Voice 3: Um, I have a question for trustee Elliott. Um, uh, uh, trustee Elliott, you had mentioned before

[1:10:19] Voice 3: that you had thoughts about tinkering with the language, um, making it more robust, um, some

[1:10:27] Voice 3: thoughts along those lines. Um, do you want to table this and come back at the next meeting with

[1:10:34] Voice 3: some suggestions on this thing? Uh, and then we can move on to the next thing, or do we want to

[1:10:39] Voice 3: deal with that now? Cause we have to dispose of this one way or the other.

[1:10:44] Voice 6: I don't think we have

[1:10:45] Voice 6: enough information to um to i mean we can i i would just suggest we vote this one down so that

[1:10:52] Voice 6: we can move on to the second one and get staff's advice okay

[1:10:58] Voice 3: um and uh helpfully i mean this is a

[1:11:03] Voice 3: good moment to remind ourselves that as a committee of the whole i mean just voting this thing down

[1:11:07] Voice 3: and just saying forget it we're not going to deal with it now doesn't close the door until it's

[1:11:10] Voice 3: coming back to it and i fully anticipate that this issue that trustee elliot raised and in fact i

[1:11:16] Voice 3: supported we're going to come back to it um and with some rewrites after trustee elliott has

[1:11:21] Voice 3: furiously gone to work with director freighter and senior policy advisor yeomans and has sorted

[1:11:25] Voice 3: things out so you've heard the suggestion from the mover that let's spike this thing i'm gonna

[1:11:32] Voice 3: put this to a vote right now just so we get it off the table uh those uh who are in fate uh

[1:11:38] Voice 3: those who are in favor of striking the motion if we can put it that way please raise your hands

[1:11:45] Voice 15: Does Director Frater want to speak to this before we vote?

[1:11:50] Voice 3: Sure, Director Frater.

[1:11:53] Voice 10: I had my hand up with regard to the clarity of the second motion.

[1:11:56] Voice 3: Okay, we'll get back to that later then.

[1:11:58] Voice 6: And we can't direct, we can't vote on striking the motion.

[1:12:01] Voice 6: We have to vote on the motion, Chair.

[1:12:03] Voice 6: Yeah,

[1:12:04] Voice 3: I guess you're right.

[1:12:04] Voice 3: You're right.

[1:12:05] Voice 3: Sorry.

[1:12:05] Voice 3: All right.

[1:12:07] Voice 3: Those in favor of this motion, please raise your hands.

[1:12:15] Voice 3: There's two.

[1:12:18] Voice 3: All right.

[1:12:18] Voice 3: Please lower your hands.

[1:12:19] Voice 3: those opposed here to the motion please raise your hands all right the the motion fails but as i said

[1:12:29] Voice 3: before uh that's not the end of it uh we're going to be coming back to it because it is a good idea

[1:12:33] Voice 3: all right uh the road is clear we can now proceed to the second motion uh

[1:12:39] Voice 5: actually chair yes

[1:12:41] Voice 3: could

[1:12:42] Voice 5: we make sure the minutes just know why this was defeated i i'm always sensitive to the it just

[1:12:47] Voice 5: looks insensitive that we just defeated something like this we had a reason because we wanted to

[1:12:52] Voice 5: consider more information before voting on it some note be added to the minutes so that just doesn't

[1:12:57] Voice 5: stand as a defeated motion thank

[1:13:00] Voice 3: you that's a very helpful suggestion and i would suggest that the

[1:13:02] Voice 3: minute taker uh make a note to the effect that the motion is defeated uh for the purposes of um

[1:13:09] Voice 3: rewriting and returning the motion to the committee at a later date does that work thank you

[1:13:16] Voice 3: Thank you. Director Freyder.

[1:13:19] Voice 10: Thank you. I was just noting, I put my hand up when the second motion stood alone,

[1:13:25] Voice 10: just noting that you might want to add clarity to the end after the word people,

[1:13:29] Voice 10: something to the effect of ensuring access for Indigenous peoples to, you know,

[1:13:34] Voice 10: sites of cultural heritage harvesting, hunting areas,

[1:13:37] Voice 10: something that specified what we're providing access to.

[1:13:41] Voice 10: If you're now wanting us to contemplate staff advice on both negative impacts of development

[1:13:45] Voice 10: to those features as well as access to those features perhaps you might want to consider

[1:13:51] Voice 10: providing both those requests in the next in the motion you've got before you now that you're

[1:13:55] Voice 10: crafting thank

[1:13:56] Voice 3: you thank you for that uh trustees fast and getty you've heard the director freighter

[1:14:00] Voice 3: um she thinks the thing needs um the sentence needs an object um and i see her point and she's

[1:14:09] Voice 3: also suggested helpfully and tactfully, I might add, that her pencil might come to your aid if

[1:14:16] Voice 3: you allowed this motion to also go down in flames temporarily, and then she would bring it back to

[1:14:21] Voice 3: us next time. So that's an option available to you, Trustee Fast and Trustee Getty. What say you?

[1:14:30] Trustee Fast: I'd be fine with that. I think this motion was designed to follow on from the first one. The

[1:14:37] Trustee Fast: The first one's going to be reworked.

[1:14:39] Trustee Fast: This one should be reworked too.

[1:14:41] Trustee Fast: So if Trustee Getty allows, I'll withdraw this motion as well.

[1:14:46] Voice 15: Well, how about if we defer it until we get more information from staff?

[1:14:52] Voice 3: Well, I'm going to have to ask Director Marler now.

[1:14:54] Voice 15: Then we don't lose it.

[1:14:57] Voice 3: Do we defer things or do we defeat it and just come back later?

[1:15:02] Voice 14: You can do either.

[1:15:03] Voice 14: But if you want to postpone this one to another meeting

[1:15:06] Voice 14: and then that gives you time to talk to staff

[1:15:10] Voice 14: and come back with some changes or whatever you want.

[1:15:14] Voice 14: That's fine.

[1:15:15] Voice 14: So

[1:15:15] Voice 3: do we need a resolution deferring this?

[1:15:17] Voice 3: Or let me go this way.

[1:15:20] Voice 3: Unless I hear otherwise,

[1:15:21] Voice 3: this motion will be deferred by consent

[1:15:25] Voice 3: and will return with suggestions by staff at the next meeting.

[1:15:31] Voice 3: Director Fraser.

[1:15:33] Voice 10: So I'll note, as you reviewed your follow-up action list

[1:15:36] Voice 10: earlier on the agenda,

[1:15:37] Voice 10: we're sort of keeping an inventory, particularly for the public, about what's been requested of

[1:15:41] Voice 10: staff, both in terms of edits to the document and requests for future advice. So I would ask

[1:15:46] Voice 10: that the committee, even if it's by consent, ask staff to do something, whether it's return for

[1:15:51] Voice 10: advice on this topic or draft options, whatever it may be. And that helps us keep track and is

[1:15:56] Voice 10: also very transparent to everyone about what changes are being contemplated.

[1:16:00] Voice 3: All right. Well,

[1:16:00] Voice 3: I think the phrase for the minutes then can say, by general consent, the committee of the whole

[1:16:05] Voice 3: defers this motion to the next meeting uh uh and uh ask staff uh to work with trustees fast

[1:16:20] Voice 3: in getty to um review the language of the resolution of the motion there

[1:16:29] Voice 3: your to-do list that

[1:16:34] Voice 15: enough clear yes

[1:16:37] Voice 10: we might want to put the motion number or something that

[1:16:39] Voice 10: adds a little bit more clarity if that was to be read as a standard piece well

[1:16:44] Voice 3: i'm going to leave

[1:16:45] Voice 3: it to the minute taker and staff to sort of work in the the technical numbers leave it to you to

[1:16:49] Voice 3: deal with that and then you can put it on the follow-up action list and um as i said before

[1:16:55] Voice 3: unless anybody wants to complain about this i'm going to take it that nobody objects and that

[1:17:00] Voice 3: we're going to that this is what's happening by general consent and we are now going to move on

[1:17:04] Voice 3: to um the rest of the trust policy statement okay did

[1:17:10] Voice 6: we vote sorry and did i miss that

[1:17:13] Voice 6: no

[1:17:13] Voice 3: it's by general consent okay

[1:17:15] Voice 6: so

[1:17:17] Voice 3: we didn't vote well

[1:17:20] Voice 15: we did but all

[1:17:23] Voice 3: right okay um

[1:17:27] Voice 3: director freighter uh or senior policy uh advisor humans either one of you whoever can help us here

[1:17:33] Voice 3: uh we need to go back to the trust policy statement the next item on since we're dealing

[1:17:38] Voice 3: with this sequential sequentially the next item for discussion please something new and fresh

[1:17:42] Voice 3: coming up okay

[1:17:44] Voice 10: if i might share if i could ask that perhaps um alexandra stopped sharing the pdf

[1:17:49] Voice 10: and jason will take a minute here and i think he's prepared to share the track changes version

[1:17:54] Voice 10: he's been working on so if there's a need to edit live or something you could you know see how

[1:17:58] Voice 10: things might look okay

[1:18:00] Voice 3: let's do it that way and

[1:18:02] Voice 10: then it's our understanding you're going to pick

[1:18:04] Voice 10: up where you left off so we're going to scroll down to that spot and just continue on but we

[1:18:09] Voice 10: We would look for your direction as to where you want to go in the document.

[1:18:12] Voice 12: Well, can I just,

[1:18:13] Voice 12: can I verify

[1:18:14] Voice 12: that you are indeed viewing my screen at the moment?

[1:18:17] Voice 3: Yes, we are.

[1:18:18] Voice 12: Fantastic. Is the font size large enough or should I expand things?

[1:18:23] Voice 3: Larger, please.

[1:18:24] Voice 2: Larger, larger, larger. Let's see what we can do here.

[1:18:30] Voice 15: Can you get rid of the navigation screen on the left?

[1:18:34] Voice 2: Absolutely. Buy us a little more real estate.

[1:18:36] Voice 15: Yep.

[1:18:37] Voice 15: All right.

[1:18:41] Trustee Fast: A little more lot coverage.

[1:18:43] Voice 12: Yes, that's right. 33%.

[1:18:48] Voice 12: To the best of my recollection, the trustees left off a discussion at the last meeting in and about Objective 4.

[1:18:57] Voice 12: Some policy changes were introduced related to sustainable development and density limits in the Managing Growth and Development section.

[1:19:05] Voice 12: section and you know i had inserted this place folder during the last conversation here

[1:19:11] Voice 12: anticipating that we might fill it with the resolution that we were just previously discussing

[1:19:15] Voice 12: so unless uh anybody recollects otherwise i believe we are in objective four about uh midway

[1:19:24] Voice 12: through the policies and so that is a place you can pick up the conversation if you so choose

[1:19:28] Voice 12: but of course it's uh at your discretion to pick up the conversation wherever you wish

[1:19:33] Voice 3: okay uh so are

[1:19:36] Voice 3: you uh let's see when you say objective four uh i'm looking at i you know the

[1:19:41] Voice 3: screen keeps hopping around here but we've got um we we we have had some changes here at 3.4.2

[1:19:54] Voice 3: yeah now you're gonna have to refresh my memory here was this something we had actually resolved

[1:19:58] Voice 3: or is this just is this the placeholder you're talking about

[1:20:01] Voice 12: no this sorry the placeholder just

[1:20:03] Voice 12: meant this empty space below the red text i just inserted a new line if uh if that previous

[1:20:09] Voice 12: resolution from uh trustee fast had passed but the the red text above shows the changes that

[1:20:16] Voice 12: you have already recommended to executive committee um and uh yeah

[1:20:22] Voice 3: all right so the next

[1:20:23] Voice 3: item we're actually dealing with is 3.4.3 because we're deferring the other stuff we just spent a

[1:20:28] Voice 3: bunch of time talking about that so what we have here is impacts of development consider the aesthetic

[1:20:32] Voice 3: environmental and social impacts of development uh i have to say you know i'm going to throw in

[1:20:40] Voice 3: an editorial comment that seems a little on the blind side i'm not sure it adds anything but

[1:20:44] Voice 3: trustee boland over to you thanks

[1:20:48] Voice 11: i'm actually raising something which i think i tried to raise

[1:20:52] Voice 11: at the end of the last meeting with respect to 342 which was in my view an excellent edit or

[1:20:59] Voice 11: a recommendation. However, I think we should go to section 213 because it relates to the same

[1:21:06] Voice 11: thing and the same language should be changed so that they align with each other. So 2.1 refers to

[1:21:16] Voice 11: limit and manage the rate and scale of development and I think we should there put in there that we

[1:21:24] Voice 11: We manage community growth and its associated impacts in alignment with preservation and protection so that those two things speak the same language and are aligned, basically.

[1:21:39] Voice 3: So you're saying the language should track?

[1:21:42] Voice 11: Yeah. So 213 and 342 should align with each other.

[1:21:49] Voice 11: We removed the concept of limit the rate and scale of development and spoke about managing growth.

[1:21:57] Voice 11: And in 2.1.3, we need to make the same adjustment, I think.

[1:22:04] Voice 3: OK, trustees, you've heard from a suggestion here from Dean Boland.

[1:22:10] Voice 3: Trustee Graham, please have your hand up.

[1:22:12] Voice 19: Yes, thank you, Chair. But I have my hand up for your first.

[1:22:17] Voice 19: we're in three point whatever it is with yeah yeah

[1:22:23] Voice 3: okay so I'm gonna if we can trustee Graham

[1:22:27] Voice 3: perhaps we can just pause your your question on that for the moment since we have kind of a live

[1:22:32] Voice 3: issue other trustees do you have you've heard the suggestion from trustee Boland what do you

[1:22:38] Voice 3: want to do with it trustee Elliott well

[1:22:42] Voice 6: I think before we change or go to 2.1.3 limit the rate

[1:22:46] Voice 6: and scale of development we should probably ensure that policies around limiting growth

[1:22:53] Voice 6: are in fact not desired or should we have policies around limiting growth that are enacted through

[1:23:07] Voice 6: specific tools and so yes we did have a vote and this was um if we can go back to three point um

[1:23:15] Voice 6: um yeah so i yeah 3.4.1 um we had a long conversation about this and i had proposed

[1:23:24] Voice 6: some of this language coming from i believe um san juan islands um but my sense is i'm i'm not

[1:23:35] Voice 6: sure we're we're landing in a satisfactory place we are not like other local governments we have

[1:23:41] Voice 6: a mandate to protect and preserve what is left of sensitive ecosystems. And so is this language

[1:23:50] Voice 6: strong enough? Consider site capabilities, environmental and protected areas.

[1:23:55] Voice 6: Is this body satisfied that this would actually, as a directive policy, uphold the mandate?

[1:24:00] Voice 6: date um what development patterns do we want to limit if

[1:24:07] Voice 7: any or

[1:24:09] Voice 6: what what are the problems

[1:24:14] Voice 6: that land use planning tools could help mitigate i just really want us to think carefully about

[1:24:22] Voice 6: this because i think we got really excited about a set of policies that sounded good

[1:24:29] Voice 6: but I'm actually not sure if these uphold the mandate.

[1:24:35] Voice 3: How would you feel about parking this thought for now?

[1:24:38] Voice 3: Because there's actually no end to the amount of agonizing we can put into

[1:24:44] Voice 3: every one of these different sections.

[1:24:46] Voice 3: And I want to remind everybody that as director freighter keeps reminding me

[1:24:51] Voice 3: and the rest of us that just because we settled on this language as a

[1:24:56] Voice 3: committee, the whole last time around doesn't mean we're stuck with it.

[1:24:59] Voice 3: it just it's where the progress is at this moment we will be taking another cut at it but if we just

[1:25:04] Voice 3: keep orbiting around and agonizing over these things i'm anxious that i'm anxious about the

[1:25:09] Voice 3: level of progress we make so um i

[1:25:12] Voice 6: hear you but but limits to growth is is an incredibly important

[1:25:15] Voice 6: thing it's almost as important as what is it whether a directive policy needs to be used or

[1:25:20] Voice 6: not are we limiting growth or are we just asking um has a committee considered those site capabilities

[1:25:28] Voice 6: and all these other you know this is very different language and and so i'm checking back in

[1:25:34] Voice 7: are

[1:25:35] Voice 6: we satisfied with where we landed to the point that we want to then go and amend

[1:25:39] Voice 6: to trustee bolin's point uh an earlier policy on setting limits to growth some people want to see

[1:25:47] Voice 6: that some people do not um and i just want to put that question so that we can be sure that we've

[1:25:53] Voice 6: landed in a good place not to read

[1:25:55] Voice 3: well trustee bowman is suggesting that the language above track

[1:25:59] Voice 3: 3.4.1 uh you have wanted some to know the caution that we need to be sure that's what we want to do

[1:26:06] Voice 3: with that language of 3.4.1 all right we've got those two points trustee getty oh

[1:26:13] Voice 15: so um

[1:26:15] Voice 15: the numbers uh that start with two those are guiding principles and that's like the huge big

[1:26:23] Voice 15: overall umbrella and we'd taken out and we made a distinction between guiding

[1:26:28] Voice 15: principles directives and the other one and we had taken out the mention of the

[1:26:36] Voice 15: guiding principles in the opening statement of the objectives so objective

[1:26:41] Voice 15: Directive 3 refers to, and I'm trying to split my screens here, that one in 2.1.3, guiding principles.

[1:26:55] Voice 15: So if we're not going to, I think what Trustee Boland is suggesting is that we remove or we amalgamate them somehow.

[1:27:07] Voice 15: And we've made a very clear distinction between overall guiding principles that are very nebulous and very broad and very general.

[1:27:15] Voice 15: And that's everything that's under Section 2 and taken out the objective advances principles of whatever the numbers are under the opening of the Objective 3.

[1:27:30] Voice 15: And if we take out more language from wherever we were with that, there's just too many bloody numbers here, 3.4.1, it seems to me that we're doing the opposite of what Trustee Bullen wants in terms of creating more levels and making it more confusing.

[1:28:00] Voice 15: using um so the the amendments that we did and if and then if to see elliot is today suggesting that

[1:28:07] Voice 15: um you know she's had second thoughts about what she was proposing in terms of the original

[1:28:13] Voice 15: amendments that were passed the last time um rather than go through it again and try to

[1:28:17] Voice 15: remember what all the discussions were about um i would i wouldn't mind hearing um and i agree with

[1:28:25] Voice 15: with you, Chair Bernardo, that we're just digging into all of the minutiae, and it's really,

[1:28:32] Voice 15: really hard to keep track of it all. So I think I would appreciate if Trustee Elliott's got some

[1:28:40] Voice 15: background in terms of what she's thinking of, and if Trustee Boland has, I think there's two

[1:28:47] Voice 15: different problems going on in terms of amalgamating something that's supposed to be very broad with

[1:28:52] Voice 15: something that's very specific and yes there's always going to be repetition in some of that

[1:28:57] Voice 15: and i don't know that that's a bad thing and then trying to sort out whether or not in fact what we

[1:29:02] Voice 15: intended in that amendment and what's now in red is um is going to stick so at this at this point

[1:29:11] Voice 15: if we're going chronologically through some of these and we're looking at you know we got down

[1:29:16] Voice 15: down to whatever, 3.4, then, you know, whether or not anybody's got, I think we carry on with

[1:29:23] Voice 15: the list and see if anybody's got any suggestions, ideas, complaints, problems, and just try and work

[1:29:30] Voice 15: our way through the list. And if it's second thoughts and going back, that that's something

[1:29:35] Voice 15: that we flag and then we come back once we've had our second go around with this document.

[1:29:42] Voice 3: Right. And that would apply, that comment would apply to both of the suggestions from Trustees

[1:29:46] Voice 3: Boland and Elliot, which is basically, leave it alone for now, come back later. Trustee Boland?

[1:29:54] Voice 11: I kind of take, thank you for all the points made.

[1:30:00] Voice 11: I am listening. I suppose what I'm looking at is I do not like the word limit because limit implies

[1:30:07] Voice 11: that in some way it's a two, that we should apply regardless. Whereas to me in the OCPs,

[1:30:16] Voice 11: they do identify an appropriate limit for each island. So I do support the idea of identifying

[1:30:24] Voice 11: identifying an appropriate limit which is the build-out for each island and that we should work

[1:30:31] Voice 11: slowly towards that so incorporating that in some way would work for me but if I am content having

[1:30:41] Voice 11: had this discussion to go forward through the rest of the list I just the word limit to me

[1:30:46] Voice 11: sort of is a trigger so I went back and found it elsewhere but I do agree with the idea of

[1:30:53] Voice 11: defining an appropriate um limit rather than just the action to limit okay thanks so if you want to

[1:31:02] Voice 11: continue with the list i will um

[1:31:05] Voice 6: be quiet

[1:31:06] Voice 3: trustee elliott thank

[1:31:11] Voice 6: you so i did a lot of thinking after

[1:31:13] Voice 6: this meeting um because i was wondering what did i propose and is it going to satisfy our goals in

[1:31:21] Voice 6: the long term and ask some questions of certain trustees and then jason yeomans um what are the

[1:31:27] Voice 6: actual tools that we could have to limit unsustainable or unwanted growth because the

[1:31:32] Voice 6: question that seems to me is we're trying to identify which types of growth are unwanted

[1:31:40] Voice 6: and that may be different according to different ltcs it's not just about limiting the number of

[1:31:48] Voice 6: of houses, a density limit of a number of houses could still cause, say, all of the forest to be

[1:31:56] Voice 6: cut down. So if we could come to a consensus on a specific growth management issue that is

[1:32:07] Voice 6: problematic across the entire trust area and that we want to see addressed by the LTCs, we could

[1:32:13] Voice 6: could then prescribe it. But I don't think there's consensus on that. The closest we could come was

[1:32:20] Voice 6: that sprawl and growth pressure is an issue. And this was sort of proposed as what could we keep

[1:32:29] Voice 6: within the limits of sustainable development to limit sprawl or direct it to certain areas.

[1:32:35] Voice 6: I don't think we're finished with this conversation, but I do think we should move on.

[1:32:40] Voice 6: And with Staff Yeoman's permission, I would forward his email, which I found really interesting because he sort of took this whole quite a long look that dives into the implementation.

[1:32:56] Voice 6: How is this going to be worked out in a companion handbook as the policy statement implementation program?

[1:33:03] Voice 6: We may not be able to identify what forms of growth we don't want and therefore should be a policy that directing how that growth is constrained. But in the companion book or in the implementation, that may be clearer.

[1:33:20] Voice 6: And so I am happy to leave this now with permission. I could forward that email with some of my thinking around as well of maybe other tools that we could use. I don't think this one is finished. Thank you.

[1:33:36] Voice 3: Thank you for that, Trustee Elliott. Colleagues, we've heard from Trustees Boland and Elliott. They've made some points. Both of them are in the same mode of thinking, look, we need to put some deeper thought on some of these things that we've already covered.

[1:33:50] Voice 3: but they're also recognizing that we can't afford to keep progressing and come back to a later date

[1:33:55] Voice 3: and they're going to make sure that happens i'm closing off discussion on these two items at this

[1:34:00] Voice 3: moment we're going to move forward and uh if we could please move the screen down to the

[1:34:07] Voice 3: finally the virgin territory here at 3.4.3 and i will note by my clock it's 7 34 we've been

[1:34:15] Voice 3: been banging away at this for an hour and a half. I am going to suggest we recess until 7.45,

[1:34:25] Voice 3: give everybody a chance to catch their breath, take care of whatever they want to take care of,

[1:34:30] Voice 3: and we'll be back at 7.45. Thank you.

[1:34:36] Voice 10: Bernardo, if I might?

[1:34:37] Voice 3: Yes.

[1:34:38] Voice 10: I just want to draw to the committee's attention that we're down to 15 trustees,

[1:34:42] Voice 10: so we do need everyone to return and stay if you're to sustain quorum. We can't have too

[1:34:46] Voice 10: too many more people dropping away.

[1:34:47] Voice 10: So we're now up to 16.

[1:34:50] Voice 10: Thank you.

[1:34:51] Voice 3: All

[1:35:18] Voice 7: right,

[1:45:06] Voice 3: I see it's 745.

[1:45:09] Voice 3: The our meeting will now resume.

[1:45:14] Voice 3: Where we left things off last time or for our brief break,

[1:45:19] Voice 3: we had returned to 3.4.3 floors open to discuss that item.

[1:45:27] Voice 3: Trustee Graham.

[1:45:28] Voice 3: Thank

[1:45:30] Voice 19: you, Chair. I don't really think we need 3.4.3, but if we do need it, I would just remove

[1:45:38] Voice 19: the word aesthetic. I don't really understand why it's here. We have a favorite bumper sticker on

[1:45:46] Voice 19: Denman. It says, keep Denman weird. It makes most of us who've been on the island for many,

[1:45:52] Voice 19: many decades, it feels comfortable to consider that our community likes that word. Anyway,

[1:45:57] Voice 19: that's my suggestion trustee

[1:46:01] Voice 3: fast thank

[1:46:04] Trustee Fast: you chair stuff sorry kittens uh biting things that are

[1:46:09] Trustee Fast: designed to be set up at a community meeting um i uh wanted to say i think the word aesthetic

[1:46:17] Trustee Fast: is important on some islands it's important on bowen uh i think it speaks to rural character

[1:46:23] Trustee Fast: It speaks to the scenic beauty that some people think is a unique amenity of the Islands Trust area.

[1:46:33] Trustee Fast: And I think it would be fine, though, if Trustee Graham wants to insert the word weird.

[1:46:42] Voice 3: No,

[1:46:43] Trustee Fast: I think it's fine the way it is. Thank you.

[1:46:45] Voice 3: Thank you.

[1:46:47] Voice 3: Trustees, other comments?

[1:46:52] Voice 3: Trustee Harris?

[1:46:55] Voice 18: Thank you.

[1:46:58] Voice 18: The OCP at one point that we actually referred to, when I say we, some people I used to log with, we had an official community plan kicking around in the back of the pickup truck for years and years.

[1:47:14] Voice 18: I guess it was from the 90s, but we used to refer to it quite often.

[1:47:17] Voice 18: And there was a line in there that said forestry would not be inhibited due to aesthetics.

[1:47:25] Voice 18: I find it very interesting, this word is in here.

[1:47:28] Voice 18: you know here now is impacts of development but um it's too bad it has to seem negative uh i would

[1:47:35] Voice 18: like to see something positive about the social impacts of development um because there's

[1:47:39] Voice 18: definitely some positives that could be taken when it comes to housing um i'm not sure if we've passed

[1:47:45] Voice 18: the part about the um precautionary principle um i did have comments about that but i'll wait

[1:47:50] Voice 18: till we get that unless i'll wait to get to that unless we have passed it already thank you

[1:47:56] Voice 18: Thank

[1:47:58] Voice 3: you. Trustee Getty.

[1:48:00] Voice 15: This is asking people to consider, that's all, the aesthetic, environmental, and social impacts of a development.

[1:48:08] Voice 15: And this is part of, I guess it was more probably the social impacts, but this was something that helped us with respect to the Cape Roger Curtis development and whether or not there would be a significant impact to the community.

[1:48:27] Voice 15: So it's an argument that, you know, it is vague in terms of your statement, Chair Bernardo, but I think that it is something that needs to be noticed and needs to be discussed and needs to be either dismissed or, you know, tick the box off in terms of whatever the proposal is,

[1:48:51] Voice 15: that it's not going to be the giant billboard with the flashing lights and the um you know all of the

[1:48:57] Voice 15: whatever um bowen has a really interesting history in terms of not um encouraging signs so

[1:49:07] Voice 15: that's part of aesthetics thank

[1:49:11] Voice 3: you trustee peterson uh

[1:49:14] Voice 17: yeah i just uh put my hand up to

[1:49:16] Voice 17: essentially echo what trustee uh getty said although i didn't know that at the time of my

[1:49:21] Voice 17: my hand up um it is says consider aesthetic environmental and social impacts which i think

[1:49:26] Voice 17: is perfectly reasonable i don't have any problem with it it's not a directive i've

[1:49:32] Voice 3: got a question

[1:49:33] Voice 3: for senior policy advisor yeomans here um it's such a general statement and you know it's it is

[1:49:40] Voice 3: non-directive in terms of the language well to the extent that it's directive it says think about it

[1:49:45] Voice 3: it doesn't say do this or that so you know if we're going to be honest about it uh it's pretty

[1:49:51] Voice 3: you know LTC can say yeah we considered it and we really do like the pyramid with lots of green

[1:49:56] Voice 3: lights on it that's staying you know uh uh my question for for you senior policy advisor is

[1:50:03] Voice 3: um uh is this in any way um duplicative of what we say elsewhere because it seems to me the whole

[1:50:11] Voice 3: policy statement is actually kind of that's what this whole policy statement's about consider

[1:50:16] Voice 3: consider this stuff. To what extent does this just basically repeat other things that we

[1:50:24] Voice 3: see elsewhere, or am I wrong about that?

[1:50:28] Voice 12: No, Chair. I think certainly on the environmental front,

[1:50:32] Voice 12: you are probably correct to note that this may be duplicative in that there are sections on

[1:50:39] Voice 12: protecting sensitive ecosystems, sections on protecting marine shoreline that generally

[1:50:45] Voice 12: encompass most of what we could consider to be the environment. Off the top of my head,

[1:50:51] Voice 12: I don't know to what extent aesthetic impacts are addressed elsewhere in the document. I don't want

[1:50:57] Voice 12: to scroll through it while it's being shared with the group, of course. And social impacts are

[1:51:05] Voice 12: addressed to some extent within the housing section and here within the community facilities

[1:51:11] Voice 12: and services section where you may find this policy useful is at the time of a specific

[1:51:21] Voice 12: development proposal maybe not let's maybe not at the time of a wholesale OCP update necessarily

[1:51:26] Voice 12: where many of these issues will be captured by other directives but rather at a site-specific

[1:51:32] Voice 12: level if a major rezoning were proposed for something that is of questionable community

[1:51:38] Voice 12: character, let's say, the local trust committee or the island municipality would have to wrestle with

[1:51:44] Voice 12: these issues of its aesthetic, environmental and social impact, and then, you know, demonstrate to

[1:51:50] Voice 12: executive committee at the end of the day, whether it had satisfactorily considered those. But of

[1:51:55] Voice 12: course, as you point out, this is not a directional directive policy, it simply asks the local trust

[1:52:01] Voice 12: committee to consider those matters.

[1:52:03] Voice 3: All right, thank you. Trustee Fast.

[1:52:05] Voice 3: Thank

[1:52:06] Trustee Fast: you. One thing I forgot to mention is, and coming back to the word aesthetic, I think it's an important word. Maybe it's the only word that's necessary in 3.4.3.

[1:52:19] Trustee Fast: But I think it's significant for all kinds of people visit beautiful island areas and they go on the ferry in order to get the benefit of the view and the scenery and the beautiful rural ambiance on islands.

[1:52:38] Trustee Fast: And I'm looking at the object of the trust, preserve and protect the trust area and its unique amenities and environment for the benefit of the residences.

[1:52:46] Trustee Fast: And I think residents and British Columbia generally, I think many people would say that the aesthetic benefits are important to them.

[1:52:58] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[1:52:58] Voice 3: Thanks.

[1:53:00] Voice 3: Director Freyder.

[1:53:04] Voice 10: I had the opportunity to word search the document on the word aesthetic.

[1:53:08] Voice 10: It shows up one other time in the policy around freshwater uses, saying that freshwater uses are not to be to the detriment of aesthetic values, basically.

[1:53:16] Voice 10: So that's the only

[1:53:17] Voice 10: other place that concept shows up.

[1:53:19] Voice 3: All right. Thank you.

[1:53:22] Voice 3: Well, I think it's fair to say that people got some opinions about this.

[1:53:27] Voice 3: Some people don't have any, but there's no controversy really with this.

[1:53:31] Voice 3: So unless somebody objects, I suggest we just move on to the next item.

[1:53:37] Voice 3: 3.4.4, community facilities and services.

[1:53:42] Voice 3: Ensure that each community's current and projected long-term needs for educational, institutional, community, health, cultural, and recreational facilities and services are considered and planned for.

[1:53:56] Voice 3: Coynes, trustee Fast.

[1:53:58] Trustee Fast: Thank you. I'll just lead off the discussion by saying this seems to be just about buildings and services.

[1:54:05] Trustee Fast: I would like to think that the words and outdoor recreation could be inserted before the end part that's in purple there with a couple of commas.

[1:54:18] Trustee Fast: Outdoor recreation could be like a tennis court or a disc golf, or it could be the parks, trails and beaches that are going to be discussed further on down.

[1:54:29] Trustee Fast: But this is just putting it into the same value as community facilities and services, those outdoor amenities, those outdoor, less expensive, more islandish outdoor recreation, can't really call it a facility, but a beach can be huge.

[1:54:55] Trustee Fast: And even on Bowen, beaches, parks and trails are the main things we even heard from our accessibility committee that those were things they wanted access to. So that's just a recent example. And I think this kind of careful planning and consideration in this category, community facilities and services under the managing growth and development, I think they should be there.

[1:55:24] Trustee Fast: Maybe this is just because Bowen is just getting its first community hall, yet we have lots of trails and beaches, and that's where people put their time, but I would hate to see them missed, and I know that there are some places that, some islands where it doesn't seem to be in the official community plan, so I think we need a directive policy for it.

[1:55:44] Trustee Fast: I'm thinking Hornby here, I don't know if anybody from Hornby is here, but that's what I recall. Thank you.

[1:55:52] Voice 3: Thanks. Trustee Yates.

[1:55:55] Voice 4: Thank you, Chair Bernardo, and thank you, Trustee Fass, because that's exactly what I was just going to say, having come recently from an Outdoor Spaces and Advisory Committee meeting. So, thank you.

[1:56:08] Voice 3: Director Frater.

[1:56:10] Voice 10: I would just suggest prior to amending this policy that you might want to pause and take a look at 3.4.20, which directly addresses sort of outdoor recreational values. So, I just suggest you review that prior to amending this one, just to prevent future duplication.

[1:56:25] Voice 10: All

[1:56:26] Voice 3: right, let's have a quick look at that then. Thank you very much for that thought.

[1:56:29] Voice 3: So what does 3.4.20 say? It says, identify appropriate locations and types of facilities

[1:56:37] Voice 3: for low-impact and active recreational activities and discourage high-impact recreational facilities

[1:56:42] Voice 3: that may adversely impact the preservation and protection of the trust area and its unique

[1:56:47] Voice 3: amenities and environment. Well, that's interesting. I confess, I'm not sure I understand what that

[1:56:54] Voice 3: even means um um it doesn't quite um capture the precision of the outdoor recreational activity

[1:57:05] Voice 3: thing that we were hearing from trustee fast so just throw that comment out there uh trustees do

[1:57:11] Voice 3: we have any further comments about this section or trustee fast's suggestion with respect to 3.4.4

[1:57:24] Voice 3: i'm not hearing oh here we go trustee bowman i

[1:57:28] Voice 11: like this the simplicity of the suggestion and

[1:57:31] Voice 11: And I agree that 3.420 needs a bit of work to make it.

[1:57:38] Voice 11: It doesn't really state what Trustee Fast has suggested.

[1:57:42] Voice 11: I think adding that small clause would be useful and helpful.

[1:57:47] Voice 11: Thanks.

[1:57:49] Voice 3: And I see, Trustee Fast, you have your hand up.

[1:57:52] Voice 3: But before we get there, I'm going to, just as a procedural thing,

[1:57:58] Voice 3: I mean, the amount of time we spend fussing around with individual words is, you know, it's a lot.

[1:58:06] Voice 3: And I'm wondering if I'm not, you know, and we will hear from other trustees, but assuming there's no objection to making the change, I'm wondering if we can proceed in that fashion.

[1:58:17] Voice 3: And I guess when we get to it, I'll give it a try.

[1:58:20] Voice 3: but you know if nobody objects I'm inclined to sort of by consent you know have it noted that

[1:58:28] Voice 3: we're going to ask staff say to tweak this or that section to address for example in this case

[1:58:34] Voice 3: the outdoor recreational activity stuff to include that and just leave it to them to do the wording

[1:58:39] Voice 3: in some grammatical way rather than us spending 15 minutes trying to find out what the grammar is

[1:58:43] Voice 3: you know that's just my thought on that trustee fast over to you again thank

[1:58:48] Trustee Fast: you chair that would

[1:58:49] Trustee Fast: be fine with me i'm just putting in the chat uh what my motion would be if i had the time to type

[1:58:54] Trustee Fast: in everything in an email uh so it's just for 3.4.4 um to just add the words and outdoor recreation

[1:59:05] Trustee Fast: just so that it doesn't get lost at that uh big picture thinking we

[1:59:11] Voice 3: have your point usually

[1:59:12] Trustee Fast: everything under recreation gets looked at we

[1:59:15] Voice 3: have your point thank you

[1:59:17] Voice 3: thank you trustee harris

[1:59:21] Voice 18: This isn't an objection. This is an observation. And I'd love to hear from anybody else anywhere down the line. But regarding 3.4.3, impacts of development, to me, that doesn't have to be taken as a negative. I can take that as a positive when I read that. What are the positive impacts of development? And maybe that would be something to be considered by LTCs. And I think it could be read in that way. By the way, I see the wording there now.

[1:59:47] Voice 18: Well,

[1:59:48] Voice 3: I think you're right. It just says consider the social impacts or whatever impacts. And so that's the plus and the minus. So it's all of them, really. So it's a holistic.

[2:00:00] Voice 3: view uh back to 3.4.4 uh i'm going to proceed in this fashion unless uh uh i hear an objection uh

[2:00:09] Voice 3: i'm going to take it that the group by consent agrees with trustee fast that an accounting for

[2:00:15] Voice 3: outdoor recreation uh needs to be uh worked into 3.4.4 uh director freighter is that sufficient

[2:00:26] Voice 3: direction for staff I

[2:00:28] Voice 10: would think so I I would expect if we sort of state that by consent you're

[2:00:32] Voice 10: asking us to make this change I would hope the minute taker could capture that and then that

[2:00:36] Voice 10: would just be simply noted in the minutes so I

[2:00:38] Voice 3: think that's yes well that's that's what I meant

[2:00:41] Voice 3: by consent uh we're asking staff to uh attend to the outdoor recreation point so I'm gonna leave

[2:00:48] Voice 3: it to staff to both do the wording and to tinker with the minute stuff because I don't want to

[2:00:52] Voice 3: to spend forever on this minutiae 3.4.5 identify planning and land use management strategies

[2:01:00] Voice 3: and consider nature-based solutions to minimize greenhouse gas emissions and adapt to climate

[2:01:06] Voice 3: change related vulnerabilities do we have any comments about that one pressy boland i kind of

[2:01:18] Voice 11: find it hopelessly vague and aspirational i would like to cut it down to something like

[2:01:26] Voice 11: identify planning and land use management strategies to, you know, to adapt to climate

[2:01:35] Voice 11: change related vulnerabilities, full stop. The whole nature-based solutions of minimizing greenhouse

[2:01:41] Voice 11: gas emissions is superfluous to me. It's just identify planning and land use management

[2:01:47] Voice 11: strategies that will help us to adapt to climate change related vulnerabilities. Thank you.

[2:01:56] Voice 3: Bessie Harris.

[2:01:57] Voice 18: You know, I'm curious about this to minimize greenhouse gas emissions.

[2:02:01] Voice 18: I don't see that there's a large emission of greenhouse gas happening on the islands.

[2:02:07] Voice 18: I really don't even see why that's in there.

[2:02:09] Voice 18: It's kind of perplexing to me.

[2:02:11] Voice 18: Thank you.

[2:02:14] Voice 7: Bessie Fast.

[2:02:16] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair.

[2:02:17] Trustee Fast: I'm just supporting this one as written.

[2:02:22] Trustee Fast: I think it's important, too, that we should all do our part to minimize greenhouse gas emissions so we don't want climate change to get worse.

[2:02:30] Trustee Fast: And using nature-based solutions is a way of doing this that otherwise people might not think of.

[2:02:39] Trustee Fast: And to have it in a directive policy like this, I think, is really important.

[2:02:43] Trustee Fast: And I could fill it out with all kinds of extra things, too.

[2:02:46] Trustee Fast: too. But I'm happy to balance out by leaving it like this. Thank you.

[2:02:53] Voice 3: Thank you. Trustee Elliott?

[2:02:56] Voice 6: I have a question. Climate change mitigation adaptation, isn't that in legislation that we,

[2:03:06] Voice 6: you know, through the Local Government Act, that we are required to have policies around

[2:03:13] Voice 6: around climate change mitigation adaptations.

[2:03:15] Voice 6: That's a question for Jason Yeomans.

[2:03:18] Voice 6: I would support keeping this as it is

[2:03:21] Voice 6: and actually strengthening the language from Consider

[2:03:24] Voice 6: to change that to employ nature-based solutions

[2:03:28] Voice 6: to minimize greenhouse gas emissions

[2:03:30] Voice 6: and adapt to climate change-related vulnerabilities.

[2:03:33] Voice 6: If we're not both mitigating and adapting to,

[2:03:37] Voice 6: we're not doing our job.

[2:03:41] Voice 3: Senior Policy Advisor Yeomans, you have a question.

[2:03:44] Voice 3: Sure.

[2:03:45] Voice 12: Thank you, Chair. I think before answering that in full, I would probably want to check the Local Government Act myself to see exactly what it says. I certainly know that greenhouse gas reduction targets are a legislative requirement in local government official community plans, and indeed the methods by which said local government intends to reach those targets.

[2:04:07] Voice 12: as to whether we are currently mandated to address climate change adaptation beyond those

[2:04:15] Voice 12: greenhouse gas emission targets. So thinking about things like sea level rise, I'm not

[2:04:18] Voice 12: sure that that is in the legislation. So if you'll give me a few seconds to check,

[2:04:23] Voice 12: I'd be happy to return with the answer to that.

[2:04:25] Voice 3: Thank you. And while you're doing that,

[2:04:27] Voice 3: I would point out for the benefit of the group here that this looks like one of those items

[2:04:33] Voice 3: were that um prescriptive versus uh discretionary distinction is surfacing a little bit um trustee

[2:04:42] Voice 3: elliott uh was arguing that it ought to re-implement now that's a directive statement

[2:04:50] Voice 3: that is tangible that's specific you know implement nature-based solutions uh but it's also

[2:04:58] Voice 3: you know directive in a way that says you know raises the question uh is that going to work

[2:05:03] Voice 3: work everywhere? Is that really a smart thing for everywhere? You know, I don't really answer

[2:05:07] Voice 3: that question, but setting that aside, what this actually says, if you look at it specifically as

[2:05:12] Voice 3: written right now, it says identify planning and land use management strategies, et cetera, et

[2:05:17] Voice 3: cetera. It doesn't say implement them. It doesn't say use them. It just says, look at it, identify

[2:05:21] Voice 3: them. And, you know, you can see, okay, that we're directed as a local trust committee. Yeah,

[2:05:26] Voice 3: we've identified them. Yeah, we're not going to use them. You know, we're not interested.

[2:05:29] Voice 3: interested. That's what that language allows. No, I'm not being critical of it. I'm not praising

[2:05:36] Voice 3: it. I'm just pointing out that's what it says. And we have to ask ourselves, is that what we

[2:05:40] Voice 3: want it to say? Or following up on Trustee Elliott, do we want it to be, well, frankly,

[2:05:47] Voice 3: have some substance to it and say, no, no, no, identify plant strategies and implement

[2:05:53] Voice 3: nature-based solutions. So we have that question. And then once you get into more specific

[2:05:58] Voice 3: specific implementation stuff, then you have the vexing question of, does one size fits all really

[2:06:03] Voice 3: work? So just throwing that out for the benefit of your consideration. Further discussion on this

[2:06:09] Voice 3: item, please. Okay. Nobody seems to want to talk about it.

[2:06:20] Voice 6: Well, no, I do. It's just,

[2:06:23] Voice 6: we need to

[2:06:24] Voice 6: carefully consider this because it is, so in developing our planning and land use management

[2:06:35] Voice 6: strategies do we consider the impacts that they are having on greenhouse gas emissions

[2:06:41] Voice 6: do we consider um whether our land use management strategy will help us adapt to climate change

[2:06:52] Voice 6: related vulnerabilities as in a 30 meter setback from the sea versus going back to a 7.5 meter

[2:07:00] Voice 6: setback uh or even going further back to 45 like i mean honestly folks are we not in the day and

[2:07:09] Voice 6: age of reckoning with the impacts of increased weather due to whether you want to call it

[2:07:15] Voice 6: anthropogenic climate change or not um this is a critical front and i think our communities would

[2:07:26] Voice 6: would be quite critical if a local government that has more shoreline than any other place in BC

[2:07:41] Voice 6: did not have policies to help our communities adapt to the impacts of climate change.

[2:07:48] Voice 6: Like, come on here. So I think it's fine as is. I actually think the wording should be changed to

[2:07:55] Voice 6: to employ nature-based solutions rather than consider, implement is a bit stronger.

[2:08:03] Voice 6: But if we don't have climate change mitigation and adaptation, then it's just, what are we doing?

[2:08:11] Voice 3: I don't think anybody's said so far that they want to get rid of the whole thing.

[2:08:14] Voice 3: It's just a question of like, what we actually want this to say.

[2:08:17] Voice 3: Trustee Getty?

[2:08:20] Voice 15: So this is telling local governments to identify planning and land use management strategies

[2:08:27] Voice 15: strategies, whatever you prefer, nature-based solutions to minimize greenhouse gas and adapt

[2:08:35] Voice 15: to. So we don't want people to drain wetlands and we don't want people to pave over, I don't know,

[2:08:45] Voice 15: you know, good soil and all the rest of it. So it's planning and land use management strategies

[2:08:50] Voice 15: strategies uh for these good reasons and i think that's fundamental to our mandate

[2:08:57] Voice 15: i'd leave it alone all right trustee yates yes

[2:09:04] Voice 4: i like um like trustee elliott said i would like

[2:09:08] Voice 4: to see something stronger like employ or implement but perhaps we could use the word encourage

[2:09:15] Voice 3: hmm that's interesting that's uh in itself a kind of mitigating sort of language

[2:09:24] Voice 3: trustee like him sorry

[2:09:33] Trustee Luckham: about that delayed microphone on um i actually appreciated uh

[2:09:40] Trustee Luckham: what toby elliott suggested um and then again now what uh trustee yates has also suggested

[2:09:47] Trustee Luckham: i put up my hand initially because if we're thinking that implement is um in some fashion

[2:09:55] Trustee Luckham: in inhibiting the discretion of the LTCs.

[2:10:02] Trustee Luckham: I would suggest that implementing is not a bad word,

[2:10:07] Trustee Luckham: and it wouldn't affect the discretion of the LTCs

[2:10:11] Trustee Luckham: if it was phrased in a fashion that said

[2:10:16] Trustee Luckham: that in consideration of the necessity to do something that nature-based implementation of

[2:10:29] Trustee Luckham: nature-based solutions would be preferable. And so changing it into a characterization

[2:10:36] Trustee Luckham: of a solution where it was necessary or deemed important. So just wanted to say that. Thanks.

[2:10:46] Voice 3: I've got a question. Who gets to decide whether a thing or a solution is nature-based or not?

[2:10:55] Voice 3: Good question.

[2:10:56] Voice 3: Because I can easily imagine what that means, but I actually don't know what it means.

[2:11:02] Voice 3: And it's one of those things that looks like it could be subdued through a lot of interpretation.

[2:11:07] Voice 3: Dusty Boland.

[2:11:08] Voice 3: I

[2:11:12] Voice 11: agree that we have to have climate mitigation strategies.

[2:11:16] Voice 11: What we can do in the islands is fairly limited.

[2:11:18] Voice 11: it and I think if you look at section 3 5 22 and 3 5 17 the two that we can most influence

[2:11:31] Voice 11: are addressed very specifically there one is marine shorelines setbacks from the sea

[2:11:38] Voice 11: consider the current and anticipated impacts of sea level rise

[2:11:41] Voice 3: just a moment trustee Elliot

[2:11:43] Voice 3: we're trying to catch up with the screen here okay which

[2:11:46] Voice 3: one are you wanting to read first

[2:11:47] Voice 3: Well,

[2:11:48] Voice 11: 3.5, 17, either. It doesn't matter.

[2:11:51] Voice 11: Okay,

[2:11:51] Voice 3: let's go to 3.5, 0.17 first.

[2:11:56] Voice 11: Consider the current and anticipated impacts of sea level rise and storm surge and determine appropriate shoreline buffers.

[2:12:05] Voice 11: So it is very specifically there as a directive.

[2:12:09] Voice 7: And

[2:12:09] Voice 11: if we go down further to 3.5, what did I say, 22, I think.

[2:12:17] Voice 11: um well it when whenever you're ready yeah yeah

[2:12:23] Voice 9: yeah emissions

[2:12:24] Voice 11: regulate land use and development

[2:12:25] Voice 11: to reduce detrimental emissions so i see that as you know uh we should be um i don't know for lack

[2:12:34] Voice 11: of a better word encouraging cluster developments that are beside the ferry we should be supporting

[2:12:39] Voice 11: supporting you know public transport and so we are covering those off so

[2:12:47] Voice 11: I don't really care anymore about that statement I just think that we are we're trying you know

[2:12:54] Voice 11: we're repeating ourselves and we could be more succinct but anyway I don't care if we leave

[2:13:00] Voice 11: statement exactly as it is I

[2:13:03] Voice 3: do share the anxiety I

[2:13:04] Voice 11: like the word encourage I

[2:13:06] Voice 3: do share the anxiety

[2:13:07] Voice 3: anxiety about, I mean, there's a certain amount of duplication is inevitable, but I

[2:13:11] Voice 3: can also, if it's too much of it, it can lead to confusion about what did we really mean with this

[2:13:15] Voice 3: thing? I mean, if you just have, for example, we have this whole section here on emissions,

[2:13:20] Voice 3: it's great. It's all there in one place. And then we have the sort of general stuff floating around.

[2:13:25] Voice 3: If we could go back to 3.4.5, I think we're at, you know, let's ask ourselves the question,

[2:13:33] Voice 3: what does this really add?

[2:13:35] Voice 11: Yeah, especially just to come back to the one, consider the aesthetic

[2:13:38] Voice 11: environmental and social impacts of development it's covered in the environmental impacts of

[2:13:44] Voice 11: development as well so i just find it is very confusing and it dilutes the overall message

[2:13:51] Voice 11: if you hop around from place to place and find similar but not identical things right

[2:13:57] Voice 3: all right

[2:13:58] Voice 3: director freighter

[2:14:02] Voice 10: so i'll just make my comment first um that this is the only policy you have

[2:14:08] Voice 10: that addresses climate change adaptation so it may be that if you wish to refine it down you

[2:14:12] Voice 10: might wish to consider that i'll note for you if you're interested in knowing more about ecosystem

[2:14:17] Voice 10: based adaptation on the um stewardship education page of the website is a webinar from about 2021

[2:14:24] Voice 10: that we put on which describes how ecosystem adaptation works um in terms of working with

[2:14:30] Voice 10: nature to account for things like more rain um so you might want to look there and also um senior

[2:14:36] Voice 10: your policy advisor humans is unable to put his hand up while he's sharing the screen so i put my

[2:14:40] Voice 10: hand up on his behalf so i think he's got some reporting back for you okay

[2:14:44] Voice 3: that's great thank

[2:14:45] Voice 3: you let's let's hear from you jason thanks

[2:14:46] Voice 12: thank you to my surrogate hand raiser um so just a quick

[2:14:52] Voice 12: update i did consult the local government act uh as expected the province does not yet mandate

[2:14:57] Voice 12: local governments to address climate change adaptation and mitigation in their official

[2:15:01] Voice 12: community plans. So far, it's limited to that reduction of greenhouse gas emissions and the

[2:15:07] Voice 12: policies and actions that you may take to reach those greenhouse gas emission targets.

[2:15:13] Voice 3: All right. Thank you. Trustee Fast.

[2:15:17] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair. I'll be brief. I wanted to say that climate action is hugely important in the

[2:15:26] Trustee Fast: the world these days. And you may not be feeling it on your island, but it's enormous and it's

[2:15:33] Trustee Fast: costing communities and it's impacting communities in negative ways and ecosystems. Anyway, I won't

[2:15:43] Trustee Fast: go on about that, except to say it's one of the reasons that we're updating this policy statement

[2:15:49] Trustee Fast: was because the trust policy statement used to say nothing particular about climate change. This

[2:15:55] Trustee Fast: This is one of the main big three reasons

[2:15:58] Trustee Fast: we were changing it.

[2:16:01] Trustee Fast: Okay, I won't go into planetary limits and things,

[2:16:04] Trustee Fast: but I will note that there is a description

[2:16:08] Trustee Fast: in the glossary of what nature-based solutions are.

[2:16:12] Trustee Fast: I think we asked for that to be in there.

[2:16:14] Trustee Fast: So it's right near the bottom of this agenda,

[2:16:21] Trustee Fast: actually down there in this section.

[2:16:24] Trustee Fast: And on Boeing-

[2:16:26] Voice 3: Perhaps you could have a quick look at that.

[2:16:27] Voice 3: thank you okay

[2:16:28] Trustee Fast: you you yeah it's a big it's it's large uh it's

[2:16:41] Voice 3: also repetitive within itself

[2:16:42] Voice 3: what i

[2:16:46] Voice 3: mean the first the first sentence is kind of more or less repeated in substance with the

[2:16:51] Voice 3: second sentence you know i'm

[2:16:53] Trustee Fast: looking at page 38 for anybody who's interested and uh i wasn't going

[2:16:57] Trustee Fast: to critique this particular wording i was just letting

[2:17:00] Trustee Fast: anybody know buddy know who was asking

[2:17:02] Trustee Fast: what is what is it and uh and then in terms of uh what islands can do there's much more than

[2:17:08] Trustee Fast: sea setbacks from the sea for example on bowen we're looking at uh

[2:17:12] Voice 3: trustee fast this is not a

[2:17:15] Voice 3: wide-ranging discretion about discussion about how we do this protect the or sort of mitigate

[2:17:21] Voice 3: climate change we're actually dealing with this specific section 3.4.5 so while what you're doing

[2:17:29] Voice 3: up Bowen Island may be interesting and useful and a good model, that's not what we're talking

[2:17:34] Voice 3: about right now.

[2:17:36] Trustee Fast: I've heard other trustees say that there's very little that we can do. So I

[2:17:40] Trustee Fast: was going to give some examples, but that's fine. I'm fine with it the way it is, or I would support

[2:17:44] Trustee Fast: the idea of using the words like encourage and implement. Thank you.

[2:17:48] Voice 3: Okay. Director Frater.

[2:17:52] Voice 10: Thank you. I'll just take this moment in time to flag for you or channel your prior trustees who

[2:17:57] Voice 10: have gone before you um on this discussion about whether a topic is already covered in legislation

[2:18:02] Voice 10: and should be in this document or not um where previous trustees have landed on this is while

[2:18:07] Voice 10: legislation might change if it's important to trust council that the topic be addressed

[2:18:11] Voice 10: you might wish to put it in this document so that's where it's been landed previously

[2:18:15] Voice 10: you might have some duplication with existing requirements in the local government act

[2:18:19] Voice 10: but because that might change you know in this document might last for some time if it's really

[2:18:24] Voice 10: important to trust council that it be addressed you can also include it in this document so just

[2:18:28] Voice 10: wanted to share that prior discussion that had gone on a

[2:18:31] Voice 3: useful point thank you because you know

[2:18:33] Voice 3: it doesn't hurt uh if that's the intention of where trust council wants to go and the fact

[2:18:38] Voice 3: that the legislation says the same thing doesn't hurt to have the reminder put in the trust policy

[2:18:42] Voice 3: statement i mean it doesn't really not harmful all right uh we've been banging away at 3.4.5 for a

[2:18:49] Voice 3: while. Some different views about the content of this. You've heard Trustee Boland would like to

[2:18:54] Voice 3: have the more stripped down version. Other people would like the more details. Then we have the

[2:18:59] Voice 3: micro controversy about whether it should be consider, encourage, or employ. We have a couple

[2:19:05] Voice 3: of options here. We could go in the direction of tinkering with what we do with consider or

[2:19:15] Voice 3: employ or whatever we do with nature-based solutions, or we could just leave it alone.

[2:19:18] Voice 3: long do we have anybody just how do we want to deal with that trustee bowling okay leave it

[2:19:26] Voice 11: exactly as it is but put in identify and encourage the adoption of planning and land use management

[2:19:33] Voice 11: strategies and consider that nature-based solutions blah blah blah to the end how about that

[2:19:40] Voice 3: personally i like that quite a bit because it actually um it has a positive action here

[2:19:45] Voice 3: this

[2:19:46] Voice 11: solomon solomon's solution well

[2:19:49] Voice 3: yeah maybe it could be why don't we just why don't we just

[2:19:52] Voice 3: put that in so people can see what it looks like

[2:19:54] Voice 11: and encourage adoption good

[2:20:02] Voice 1: very

[2:20:04] Voice 3: nice uh does

[2:20:05] Voice 3: anybody object to that nope if

[2:20:09] Voice 11: they do i might just beat my head off the table in a zoom session

[2:20:13] Voice 11: okay no

[2:20:15] Voice 3: no no don't beat your head just beat them um so uh i'm not hearing any objections to that so

[2:20:21] Voice 3: So I'm going to take it by general consent that this committee adopts that change as written in the text.

[2:20:30] Voice 3: Is that okay, Director Freighter, or do I have to put some more magic words in there?

[2:20:33] Voice 3: In

[2:20:46] Voice 10: the boardroom, and Alex just had to step away for a minute, so I had to unmute myself.

[2:20:50] Voice 10: I think that's fine.

[2:20:51] Voice 10: I think we'll assume that with these edits, we'll have the minute take or record that they're adopted by consent or recommended by consent.

[2:20:58] Voice 3: Excellent. Thank you.

[2:20:59] Voice 3: Moving on to 3.4.6, hazardous areas.

[2:21:01] Voice 3: areas identify with consideration of climate change that's just bad grammar sorry uh identify

[2:21:07] Voice 3: with consideration of climate change areas hazardous to development activities including

[2:21:12] Voice 3: but not limited to areas subject to flooding erosion wildfire or stopens slope instability

[2:21:17] Voice 3: and direct development away from such hazards well there you have the concept uh not the most

[2:21:25] Voice 3: felicitous wording but the the intention is clear enough um discussion please people running out of

[2:21:38] Voice 3: gas nobody seems to have anything to say about it um i

[2:21:42] Voice 11: i just think should it not be

[2:21:44] Voice 11: and with consideration because it's identify we should identify those areas anyway and there's

[2:21:52] Voice 11: the additional consideration of climate change which is almost a time-based version of the same

[2:21:57] Voice 11: issue um so you know with consideration of climate change should that be and consider climate change

[2:22:07] Voice 11: or i don't know how to phrase it exactly but to make it additional to normal consideration

[2:22:18] Voice 3: um is the intention here to say something like identify with special consideration

[2:22:25] Voice 3: uh of the consequences of climate change or something

[2:22:28] Voice 11: with additional consideration of

[2:22:30] Voice 11: climate change see

[2:22:33] Voice 3: we're getting it okay see we're doing what we ought not to do we're waiting

[2:22:36] Voice 3: into this messing around with the wording um first of all i'm going to ask a question to the group

[2:22:43] Voice 3: um is the intention of the you know it's a two-fold question and the question is it does

[2:22:50] Voice 3: um is the intention of this section clear enough to everybody are they uh happy with that and if

[2:22:59] Voice 3: they don't want to make any changes to the intention uh would it be sufficient to simply

[2:23:07] Voice 3: please say you know direct staff to could you please tighten up this language to make it a bit

[2:23:11] Voice 3: more um clearer for us and a bit firmer but you know we're okay with the intention sorry that was

[2:23:19] Voice 3: just i'm getting a little tired that's pretty clumsy way of putting it can we do it that way

[2:23:23] Voice 3: because i i don't see nobody seems to have a problem with this okay okay by general consent

[2:23:30] Voice 3: consent, minute taker, please note that Committee of the Whole asks staff to edit 3.4.6 to maintain

[2:23:42] Voice 3: the original intention, but improve the grammar. And we'll cross our fingers and hope it works out.

[2:23:49] Voice 3: Trustee Graham.

[2:23:50] Voice 19: I like your suggestion, but I want staff to just consider the statement. I

[2:23:56] Voice 19: i personally don't have a problem with it and staff may decide that there's not a problem so

[2:24:02] Voice 19: to ask them to make it better and and yet some of us may think it's just fine as it is um anyway

[2:24:10] Voice 19: i'm sorry no

[2:24:11] Voice 3: that's fine i i think we take it as given that um well i mean we shouldn't take it as

[2:24:16] Voice 3: given uh uh what did i say before sorry i lost track um i

[2:24:25] Voice 1: have uh request staff to edit 3.4.6

[2:24:29] Voice 1: to maintain the original intention but improve the grammar right

[2:24:34] Voice 3: uh if in following what trustee

[2:24:36] Voice 3: grahams says um uh you know change that to request staff to consider editing etc etc understood

[2:24:48] Voice 1: Okay.

[2:24:49] Voice 3: And so I'm throwing that out as unless somebody objects, that's what's going to, that's going to travel by consent. Yay, moving on. 3.4.7. Support economic activities, economic activities that are compatible with preservation and protection of the trust area and its unique amenities, environment and community character. Trustee Patrick.

[2:25:14] Voice 3: Patrick?

[2:25:16] Voice 5: I mean, I think this is an extremely broad statement, which is fine. But I think

[2:25:22] Voice 5: we're missing something. We talk about managing growth and density, but we don't address tourism

[2:25:30] Voice 5: in this section. And I think we should. And I don't have any suggestions. I just think that

[2:25:37] Voice 5: we could request staff to either come back with an additional policy about managing tourism.

[2:25:44] Voice 5: tourism.

[2:25:46] Voice 3: So just to clarify, Trustee Patrick, are you talking about changing this section or

[2:25:51] Voice 3: it just encourages you to think that we need some more specific attention to tourism in a

[2:25:57] Voice 3: separate section?

[2:25:58] Voice 5: I think it's this section because this is about communities, complete

[2:26:03] Voice 5: communities and so forth. But I think economic activities, that's broad. I just think we probably

[2:26:08] Voice 5: need an additional policy just on the topic of tourism in this section, managing tourism.

[2:26:15] Voice 5: Yes,

[2:26:16] Voice 3: but what do you mean by that? Because if we direct staff to go in that direction, what do you want them to say about managing tourism?

[2:26:24] Voice 3: Well,

[2:26:25] Voice 5: the overall section is about fostering sustainable, inclusive and resilient communities. So managing tourism is in that context. So I'm not an expert, I don't have, but I just feel that we need something along that line that talks about the managing.

[2:26:50] Voice 5: just don't let it run away and take over our islands we're trying to maintain our islands as

[2:26:55] Voice 5: you know sustainable communities um so we have to manage tourism in that context

[2:27:00] Voice 5: and

[2:27:01] Voice 3: you don't think that's covered by just saying supporting activities that are compatible with

[2:27:05] Voice 3: preservation protection etc etc it

[2:27:07] Voice 5: technically could be in there but i think tourism's so

[2:27:10] Voice 5: important it should be called out and especially in our islands but

[2:27:15] Voice 3: i'm sorry to belabor this but

[2:27:17] Voice 3: But called out in what way?

[2:27:20] Voice 3: Have a specific policy.

[2:27:22] Voice 3: Like I could like depending on where you want a person wants to go, I could see this saying support economic activities, comma, including tourism, comma, that are compatible, et cetera, et cetera.

[2:27:32] Voice 3: And I could see another trustee saying, no, no, no, no.

[2:27:34] Voice 3: I'm not saying that, you know, tourism is value neutral, that we should support it.

[2:27:39] Voice 3: I'm saying it ought to be managed.

[2:27:41] Voice 3: So I'd

[2:27:43] Voice 5: be happy to hear what others have to say about this topic.

[2:27:46] Voice 3: OK, thank you.

[2:27:48] Voice 3: you've heard our little back and forth here and trustees please weigh in and I'd appreciate it if

[2:27:54] Voice 3: you could also address the what seems like an important point that trustee Patrick brought up

[2:28:00] Voice 3: about managing tourism trustee fast thank

[2:28:04] Trustee Fast: you tourism is a big and growing problem issue I

[2:28:10] Trustee Fast: I should say, on Bowen.

[2:28:13] Trustee Fast: It's not only an economic activity.

[2:28:16] Trustee Fast: We have so many day users coming.

[2:28:18] Trustee Fast: They're just flowing in.

[2:28:20] Trustee Fast: Some people say one of the problems is that they leave without spending any money.

[2:28:25] Trustee Fast: But they take up, you know, obviously lots of room on the ferry and in our restaurants

[2:28:30] Trustee Fast: and overwhelm our little teeny sewer plant and the library washrooms.

[2:28:38] Trustee Fast: And they come in big groups.

[2:28:39] Trustee Fast: Anyway, I think it's a, I like Trustee Patrick's idea of adding a directive policy related to managing tourism.

[2:28:51] Trustee Fast: And I don't think just adding it in economic activities would cut it, although that was my first thought too.

[2:28:58] Trustee Fast: But we're attractive and they are coming.

[2:29:04] Trustee Fast: Anyway, thank you.

[2:29:05] Trustee Fast: Well,

[2:29:07] Voice 3: you know, the mandate does include doing all the stuff for the benefit of everybody in BC.

[2:29:12] Voice 3: Trustee Boland?

[2:29:14] Voice 11: Yeah, my comment exactly. I really support it.

[2:29:17] Voice 11: I see that like tourism is regarded as unlimited.

[2:29:22] Voice 11: You know, we have an unlimited capacity and it has an impact.

[2:29:27] Voice 11: And, you know, what we see on Saterna is primarily through campsites and overflow sites because people turn up without bookings and water, access to water.

[2:29:41] Voice 11: So there is a huge impact. And you are right. We are supposed to be managing the trust area for the benefit of British Columbians.

[2:29:49] Voice 11: So we can't exactly just draw up the drawbridge. But so I do I do think it warrants a special directive.

[2:29:56] Voice 11: I don't know what the content of that should be, but we should.

[2:30:00] Voice 11: knowledge that it is a large thing that could have a big influence thanks as

[2:30:07] Voice 3: we continue discussing

[2:30:08] Voice 3: this trustees i i hope to hear from trustees talking i mean talk about the um direction the

[2:30:14] Voice 3: management of tourism should take because it just saying managing tourism isn't that helpful it has

[2:30:19] Voice 3: to sort of have a kind of direction to it uh trustee getty oh

[2:30:26] Voice 15: i'm tired too so we'll ban them

[2:30:29] Voice 15: But I think the 3.4.7 as it's currently written is, you know, nice and broad in general.

[2:30:41] Voice 15: And when you think of, you know, little shops and small restaurants and not big box stores and all the rest of it, then it makes sense.

[2:30:48] Voice 15: But there is the elephant in the room.

[2:30:53] Voice 7: We lost your audio.

[2:30:57] Voice 15: It's like an elephant in the room.

[2:30:58] Voice 15: tourism is an economic activity but um i would go i'm going farther than trustee fast it's a monster

[2:31:07] Voice 15: and um

[2:31:08] Voice 15: you know it's it has shut down our island this summer and uh you know it's like it has all

[2:31:16] Voice 15: sorts of ramifications and complications and it's extremely expensive to support it so um you know

[2:31:23] Voice 15: just in terms of our $7 million sewage treatment plant upgrade that we need.

[2:31:28] Voice 15: So it is something that I agree with Trustee Patrick,

[2:31:35] Voice 15: that it would be really helpful to have,

[2:31:38] Voice 15: and I have no idea what the wording would be,

[2:31:40] Voice 15: but an additional economic activity that specifies

[2:31:45] Voice 15: and specifically looks at tourism.

[2:31:48] Voice 15: and um i think it's the uh figuring out how to um manage the the conflict in our um mandate that

[2:32:01] Voice 15: says it's for the benefit of all british colombians and at the same time that you know if we open it

[2:32:07] Voice 15: up to every single other british colombian then we've destroyed it so it's um there's there has

[2:32:13] Voice 15: It has to be some way of people paying attention to

[2:32:17] Voice 15: and trying to think of ways of managing that as an economic activity.

[2:32:24] Voice 3: And maybe I'm being too Spartan about this,

[2:32:28] Voice 3: but I look at the words compatible with preservation and protection.

[2:32:31] Voice 3: It seems to me that's the kind of, that's the shield that.

[2:32:38] Voice 15: It's too wishy-washy.

[2:32:39] Voice 15: It has

[2:32:40] Voice 3: to be, you know,

[2:32:41] Voice 15: that's just pat them on the head and be nice.

[2:32:44] Voice 15: And instead of figuring out ways of, you know, I don't know, let's get managing.

[2:32:51] Voice 3: Something more specific.

[2:32:53] Voice 3: Trustee Gavro?

[2:32:55] Voice 9: What was I going to say?

[2:32:57] Voice 9: I put my hand up for a little while ago.

[2:32:59] Voice 9: I like the wording as it is.

[2:33:01] Voice 9: I like that the idea is economic activities, right?

[2:33:04] Voice 9: So it's kind of broad.

[2:33:05] Voice 9: But I do think we're in a time now where we do need to say the word tourism here.

[2:33:09] Voice 9: but I think we should be keeping in mind that we need tourism practices that respect our

[2:33:17] Voice 9: ecological limits. So I think if we add the word tourism, perhaps we can call it sustainable

[2:33:22] Voice 9: tourism, just because I think that might go a little better with the community. Because I do

[2:33:30] Voice 9: think that we've heard a lot of feedback from the community that they're, why are we talking

[2:33:34] Voice 9: about tourism? But we are at a time where we need to, I think. Thank you.

[2:33:38] Voice 3: all right thank you trustee harris yeah

[2:33:44] Voice 18: well it's very interesting um these comments um about

[2:33:50] Voice 18: tourism and for drawbridge mentioned and um i know it's a slippery slope um because tourism

[2:33:56] Voice 18: is uh greatly needed and and i think um if it is mentioned you know it really should be promoted

[2:34:03] Voice 18: and not deterred but some kind of environmental type of tourism i think there's huge opportunity

[2:34:08] Voice 18: for more tourism um since the um you know the sort of resource-based um uh you know livelihoods have

[2:34:16] Voice 18: been you know systematically sort of eradicated over the years as uh things have progressed here

[2:34:25] Voice 18: in the last couple of decades and so now we're here talking about wanting to limit tourism well

[2:34:30] Voice 18: you know the kind of normal working type folks are getting pushed out and pushed out now the

[2:34:36] Voice 18: The artisans, if we're going to end, you know, limit tourism, well, artisans now are going to be pushed out.

[2:34:41] Voice 18: We're going to be left with nothing but, you know, billionaires and nobody left anything else to do anything.

[2:34:47] Voice 18: It'll be a Martha's Vineyard type of idea where people are boated in to do the services throughout the day.

[2:34:53] Voice 18: So, you know, if there's going to be a tourism section, I think it should be a positive one and something that is promoting it and mentions the opportunities that are there.

[2:35:04] Voice 18: even if that means calling it environmental tourism.

[2:35:07] Voice 18: Thank you.

[2:35:09] Voice 3: Rosie Borswick.

[2:35:14] Voice 16: Hi, yeah, and I apologize for the weird angle of my camera.

[2:35:17] Voice 16: I've had to move some things around in my office recently.

[2:35:21] Voice 16: I really appreciate the sort of discussions

[2:35:24] Voice 16: that's happened around here.

[2:35:24] Voice 16: I do think that we are possibly straying

[2:35:26] Voice 16: into the agendas of various trustees

[2:35:30] Voice 16: and their various perspectives on the subject.

[2:35:32] Voice 16: project um we're setting a broad set of guidelines for this i i would agree with uh trustee govro

[2:35:40] Voice 16: and that i you know i broadly like the language here i also really take the point that having a

[2:35:45] Voice 16: separate session that section that specifically pertains to trust to tourism is a good thing

[2:35:51] Voice 16: uh the island that i live on denman is you know we are on the we are the bridge to another place

[2:35:57] Voice 16: that is incredibly pro-tourism but we are you know pretty we're no fun island in a lot of ways

[2:36:03] Voice 16: and i i think it's really important that it i don't think we should set a tone specifically

[2:36:09] Voice 16: saying pro or against tourism specifically here different islands have very different objectives

[2:36:14] Voice 16: there hornby relies on that economically uh in a way that we don't i don't think it's appropriate

[2:36:21] Voice 16: to set that tone pro or for here um we this is a place that people are going to come that's

[2:36:27] Voice 16: That's unavoidable. What's important is that we make sure that the way in which that's conducted is mindful of our mandate and falls within our responsibilities to our community in that front.

[2:36:40] Voice 16: So I think we should say that, yeah, you know, that that that stuff should be compatible with preservation and protection of the trust area.

[2:36:48] Voice 16: The individual LTCs are the best place to make decisions as to what their island needs specifically about that.

[2:36:55] Voice 16: I would be pretty uncomfortable saying, yeah, we should encourage all the tourism in the world, or no, we should, you know, pull up the drawbridges and lower a bell jar of the islands.

[2:37:04] Voice 16: I think LTCs should remain the place where that's decided.

[2:37:11] Voice 3: All right. It's interesting. I haven't heard really any objections to the language of 3.4.7.

[2:37:21] Voice 3: it's pretty frankly i kind of like it it's pretty concise it sort of says that it's very clear

[2:37:27] Voice 3: um but uh there's some trustees are uneasy about the fact that tourism is such a large

[2:37:35] Voice 3: component of the economies of many of the islands that it probably deserves its own section so we

[2:37:41] Voice 3: we have a decision to make here um uh we can just leave it alone and assume that compatibles

[2:37:49] Voice 3: preservation and protection of the trust covers off tourism but we've heard some trustees weren't

[2:37:53] Voice 3: happy about that idea they want something specific or we can tinker with it or we can just have a

[2:38:00] Voice 3: separate section uh i'm inclined uh you know assuming the group agrees to do my little general

[2:38:07] Voice 3: consent trick to just leave that section alone but then by ask staff to develop and return to

[2:38:14] Voice 3: the committee with the policy to manage tourism in a sustainable manner and then you know we'll

[2:38:20] Voice 3: see what staff comes back with and we'll work on it when we see it

[2:38:23] Voice 11: yeah there's a couple of things

[2:38:24] Voice 11: in the chat but i agree with what you've proposed thanks

[2:38:29] Voice 3: does anybody object to us proceeding in

[2:38:31] Voice 3: that way okay um we're going to leave 3.4.7 and for the record uh by general consent the committee

[2:38:40] Voice 3: asks the staff to develop and return the committee to the committee with a policy designed to manage

[2:38:45] Voice 3: tourism in a sustainable manner uh 3.4.8 community heritage sites identify preserve protect and

[2:38:58] Voice 3: support the restoration of community heritage sites okay anybody

[2:39:04] Voice 3: uh have any particular um

[2:39:06] Voice 3: thoughts about this one do we have a definition of what a community heritage site is

[2:39:18] Voice 3: is that somewhere in the um the footnotes there or the glossary or whatever it is

[2:39:24] Voice 15: It's in the Local Government Act if it's not in ours.

[2:39:27] Voice 3: In that case, that's what it is then.

[2:39:30] Trustee Fast: Everybody's hanging in there for the housing discussion.

[2:39:35] Voice 12: So, Chair, sorry to interrupt due to my lack of hand-raising,

[2:39:38] Voice 12: but there is a definition of community heritage site.

[2:39:41] Voice 12: Yeah,

[2:39:42] Voice 3: I see it.

[2:39:43] Voice 3: And the Local Government Act is completely useless.

[2:39:46] Voice 11: Very useful.

[2:39:47] Voice 3: Yeah, a community heritage site is a real problem.

[2:39:50] Voice 3: It's a

[2:39:50] Voice 11: community heritage site.

[2:39:51] Voice 3: Well,

[2:39:52] Voice 12: that just leaves it up to the trustees discretion, really, like it's

[2:39:56] Voice 3: for the community

[2:39:57] Voice 12: to have a conversation about what it deems to be an important part of its heritage.

[2:40:02] Voice 3: I appreciate the discretion, but it's also a direction that is useless. I mean, we can keep it, I guess. I mean, it's up to us what we do with the policy, but it's very, no, I should just shut up. Trustees, do we want to change this? Do we want to edit it? Do we want to leave it alone? Trustee Bowman?

[2:40:20] Voice 11: I don't want to change it, but I just want to make a comment and then move on.

[2:40:25] Voice 11: I find the distinction between, you know, First Nations cultural and heritage sites and community heritage sites.

[2:40:33] Voice 11: I just find it it's a historical thing that we're stuck with, but I just find it isn't helpful, to be honest.

[2:40:41] Voice 11: And I don't know how to change it or deal with it.

[2:40:44] Voice 11: I think all community heritage sites are equally valuable or not.

[2:40:49] Voice 11: but that distinction makes it hard to um i suppose promote reconciliation

[2:40:58] Voice 11: anyway that's just a stone in my shoe okay

[2:41:01] Voice 3: okay well it's your shoe you're gonna have to live

[2:41:03] Voice 3: with it i think um any other comments okay we're gonna leave that one alone and move on to housing

[2:41:14] Voice 3: and uh let's see uh directive policies housing let's go let's go to the preamble language there

[2:41:21] Voice 3: there, just so we know what it says there. Local trust committees and island municipalities shall,

[2:41:26] Voice 3: in the preparation of official community plans and amendments, and local trust committees shall,

[2:41:31] Voice 3: in preparation of regulatory bylaws and amendments, dot, dot, dot, 3.4.9, identify appropriate

[2:41:40] Voice 3: locations where density increases could support the development of safe, secure, diverse, and

[2:41:45] Voice 3: affordable housing, while reducing dependency on private automobile use and increasing use of

[2:41:51] Voice 3: of trail systems, public transportation,

[2:41:53] Voice 3: and active transportation without adversely impacting

[2:41:56] Voice 3: the trust area and its unique amenities and environment

[2:41:58] Voice 3: and guarantees the delivery of a unicorn to every home.

[2:42:02] Voice 3: All right, sorry, I couldn't resist.

[2:42:05] Voice 3: There's an awful lot in there and it's awfully aspirational

[2:42:08] Voice 3: and I'm causing trouble unnecessarily.

[2:42:12] Voice 3: It's an important,

[2:42:13] Voice 3: we're into a really important territory now.

[2:42:17] Voice 3: Please, let's have a discussion here.

[2:42:20] Voice 3: Trustee Boland.

[2:42:23] Voice 11: i support the appropriate locations etc etc i would suggest that um reducing dependency on

[2:42:32] Voice 11: audible use increasing the use of trail systems blah blah blah that is dealt with elsewhere and

[2:42:39] Voice 11: i think you could add to that you could say let's make sure it's always beside the general store

[2:42:45] Voice 11: let's make sure it's beside the school let's make sure it's on a crd water system so i i think

[2:42:52] Voice 11: putting in any kind of contingency clauses is not appropriate in this just identify appropriate

[2:43:01] Voice 11: locations and you know then move on thanks i

[2:43:06] Voice 3: would add just as a kind of an editorial point

[2:43:08] Voice 3: that without adversely affecting the the without adversely impacting the trust here in its unique

[2:43:13] Voice 3: communities environment that's actually gratuitous i mean that's the mandate so i don't know why

[2:43:18] Voice 3: why that's there uh trustee borthwick yeah

[2:43:22] Voice 16: i think you guys both take my points there um it it is

[2:43:27] Voice 16: absolutely a given that we have to not adversely affect the trust area and unique amenities

[2:43:31] Voice 16: i would i would frankly strike everything after diverse and affordable housing um i think all of

[2:43:39] Voice 16: that is is specific to ldcs where where where affordable housing is appropriate is going to

[2:43:46] Voice 16: very wildly um by community and while it's absolutely something i think is really important

[2:43:52] Voice 16: the more we get into getting really specific in this document the the more we curtail um

[2:43:59] Voice 16: the more things we make ltcs consider when when when making that appropriation and and our job

[2:44:05] Voice 16: as trustees is to know our communities well and to and to make those determinations and to to

[2:44:11] Voice 16: to bear those things in mind.

[2:44:12] Voice 16: That's our job.

[2:44:15] Voice 16: To get into this level of specificity here

[2:44:18] Voice 16: just is bloat to my mind.

[2:44:22] Voice 3: Yeah, it's always tricky trying to get the balance right

[2:44:24] Voice 3: between how directive we are and how much discretion.

[2:44:28] Voice 3: Trustee Yates.

[2:44:30] Voice 4: Thank you, Trustee Borthwick,

[2:44:32] Voice 4: because I'm trying to figure out a way to cut it

[2:44:35] Voice 4: and still have it sound like I wanted it to sound.

[2:44:38] Voice 4: And I totally agree with you.

[2:44:41] Voice 4: cut it right after housing, because all those other things we talk about in the rest of this

[2:44:48] Voice 4: policy statement, and a lot of them will be left up to the local trust committees. Thank you.

[2:44:54] Voice 3: Trustee Getty?

[2:44:56] Voice 15: One of the things that we've been working hard on is to try and figure out how to

[2:45:03] Voice 15: have some control over density. And one of the things that we've linked it to is reduction on

[2:45:10] Voice 15: on the dependency on the private automobile use

[2:45:13] Voice 15: and public transportation, active transportation.

[2:45:17] Voice 15: So we've spent a whole lot of time figuring out

[2:45:22] Voice 15: if there's appropriate land

[2:45:23] Voice 15: that is close to the village center, basically.

[2:45:26] Voice 15: So I would not make that significant a reduction.

[2:45:34] Voice 15: I can live with dropping out

[2:45:37] Voice 15: and without adversely impacting the trust area

[2:45:39] Voice 15: and its unique amenities and environment, because that's part of our legislated mandate.

[2:45:45] Voice 15: But I think while taking into consideration reducing dependency on private automobile

[2:45:51] Voice 15: and the rest of those conditions, I think would be very helpful

[2:45:55] Voice 15: so that you don't have land that's available that's too far away from everything

[2:46:01] Voice 15: so that the people that can least afford to have a car are required to have a car.

[2:46:09] Voice 15: And we just take into consideration when we're planning these things

[2:46:13] Voice 15: that we've got ways of helping people get around.

[2:46:18] Voice 3: What's wrong with leaving it to individual LTCs to decide the methodology here?

[2:46:25] Voice 15: Well, nothing.

[2:46:26] Voice 3: I hear you that Bowen Island is putting a real focus on private automobile use,

[2:46:29] Voice 3: but maybe other places are different.

[2:46:33] Voice 15: I'm not saying that it's – so this is more mandatory while reducing.

[2:46:38] Voice 15: reducing and i'm suggesting that we water that down a little bit and say while considering

[2:46:43] Voice 15: or taking into consideration reducing so i think they're good principles and i think that they

[2:46:48] Voice 15: would be um well worth everybody considering um in terms of not having um you know i mean we can

[2:46:57] Voice 15: always if if the only available land you know is uh going to be donated that's outside of all of

[2:47:04] Voice 15: these other parameters then you've got a good argument and you've good case but i think that

[2:47:09] Voice 15: generally if we're trying to figure out ways of providing land and encouraging people to develop

[2:47:15] Voice 15: that we should be taking into consideration these other things if we're going to have increased

[2:47:19] Voice 15: density we want to reduce emissions we want to have um you know more oh i don't know um

[2:47:29] Voice 15: different amenities that just make it easier to live there in a more crowded

[2:47:33] Voice 15: density area.

[2:47:35] Voice 3: All right. Trustee Fast.

[2:47:40] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair. I just have something a little different.

[2:47:42] Trustee Fast: And that is I'm wondering if we can,

[2:47:45] Trustee Fast: I'm okay with all these suggestions, by the way.

[2:47:48] Trustee Fast: What bothers me is that the word safe, secure, diverse,

[2:47:52] Trustee Fast: and affordable housing,

[2:47:53] Trustee Fast: housing, should there be commas between or semicolons between diverse and affordable?

[2:48:00] Trustee Fast: Because otherwise, it sounds like we're looking for housing that is all those things, which

[2:48:08] Trustee Fast: maybe you can only get one or two of those things, safe, secure, diverse, and affordable.

[2:48:14] Trustee Fast: Diverse might mean some small but expensive condos, if the developer will build them,

[2:48:22] Trustee Fast: uh could that be an alternative for somebody who's uh wanting to downsize from a larger

[2:48:29] Trustee Fast: property anyway i just uh i wonder if we should put at least a comma after the word diverse

[2:48:37] Trustee Fast: so that there's more uh variety for example for rental i

[2:48:44] Voice 3: don't think i i could be going

[2:48:46] Voice 3: out on a limb here but i don't think anybody's going to get hysterical if we put a comma in there

[2:48:50] Voice 3: so let's stick it in trustee peterson uh

[2:49:03] Voice 17: thank you chair um i support uh trustee borthek's

[2:49:08] Voice 17: notion of uh ending this after housing i note that section 3.4.14 um goes in depth on the

[2:49:23] Voice 17: the transportation um right there's

[2:49:28] Voice 17: a directive policy on transportation networks and i i think

[2:49:32] Voice 17: it's duplicative and i don't think it's necessary to have it right this

[2:49:37] Voice 17: one so i'm fine with that

[2:49:39] Voice 17: and

[2:49:40] Voice 3: i think uh trustee harris is next thank

[2:49:47] Voice 18: you um yes i just want to uh i'm in agreement

[2:49:50] Voice 18: with uh trustee borthwick and trustee yates and trustee peterson and anybody else who wants to

[2:49:56] Voice 18: cut it after housing and that's a great idea and let's do it

[2:50:01] Voice 3: okay well where we're at right now

[2:50:03] Voice 3: then I mean if I look at the time here it's 8 50 we're running out of time and I think

[2:50:07] Voice 3: people are also running out of gas here sorry I don't wish to affect climate change but

[2:50:16] Voice 3: I think this is probably the last one we're going to deal with here and I think we'll just cut it

[2:50:20] Voice 3: short at that point we have an issue here which is there's a number of people who think this thing

[2:50:26] Voice 3: is fine if you put a period after housing and then we've heard from trustee yeti and a few other

[2:50:31] Voice 3: people think well you know let's talk about automobiles or the rest of it my little gimmick

[2:50:36] Voice 3: of trying to do everything by consent i'm not sure that's going to work here we have this issue do we

[2:50:42] Voice 3: cut it off at housing or not and i'm going to suggest that somebody puts that forward as a

[2:50:45] Voice 3: resolution and we put it up for a vote we just deal with it and just you know that at least we've

[2:50:50] Voice 3: taken care of this one so uh just how does that sound does somebody want to do that trustee

[2:50:58] Voice 3: borthwick is raising his hand yeah

[2:51:01] Voice 16: um yeah i uh i move that we uh and uh i forget which this is

[2:51:10] Voice 16: is this a directive policy i forget well

[2:51:12] Voice 3: it's 3.4 point 3

[2:51:14] Voice 16: .4.9 um appropriate locations for

[2:51:18] Voice 16: densification uh after uh affordable housing i

[2:51:25] Voice 11: second that and

[2:51:27] Voice 3: that's being seconded by um

[2:51:28] Voice 3: I'm Trustee Boland, and it's been seconded.

[2:51:35] Voice 3: Do we have any, well, let's not have

[2:51:37] Voice 3: any further discussion on it

[2:51:39] Voice 3: unless people are really passionate about it.

[2:51:41] Voice 16: Yeah, Chair,

[2:51:43] Voice 16: if I may, just very briefly.

[2:51:45] Voice 16: Sure.

[2:51:45] Voice 16: And I just want to say I really do appreciate where Trustee Getty is coming from on this,

[2:51:49] Voice 16: and I am running a public transportation system.

[2:51:53] Voice 16: I believe really strongly in this.

[2:51:55] Voice 16: I would just hate for this level of specificity to be the reason

[2:52:00] Voice 16: in that a development of safe and diverse and secure affordable housing didn't go forward,

[2:52:06] Voice 16: I don't think that we need to get drill down into that. But I do think absolutely that we

[2:52:10] Voice 16: should all be taking these things into consideration.

[2:52:13] Voice 3: Thank you. I'm going to put

[2:52:15] Voice 3: the matter up for a vote right now. Those in favor of this motion, please raise your hands.

[2:52:20] Voice 15: Can I amend?

[2:52:22] Voice 3: Well, no, we're in a vote. If you want to change it, we can deal with it after this

[2:52:29] Voice 3: vote please lower your hands those opposed please raise your hand trustee getty you're raising your

[2:52:38] Voice 3: hand okay uh trustee getty's opposed uh that's on the record uh the motion passes uh back to you

[2:52:45] Voice 3: trustee getty if you wish to um offer some other suggestions a little late

[2:52:50] Voice 3: never mind okay all

[2:52:52] Voice 3: right all right that one's done uh it's now 8 53 um i suppose i shouldn't you know presume

[2:53:01] Voice 3: zoom to cut things short but i'm assuming people have had enough and they'd like to sort of pack

[2:53:07] Voice 3: it in and move on uh trustee graham thank

[2:53:10] Voice 19: you chair i've had enough i'd like to pack it in and

[2:53:13] Voice 19: move on all

[2:53:14] Voice 3: right let's move on to the agenda see what's left here to clear up because uh we've done

[2:53:20] Voice 3: a fair bit of work today thank you all right um let's see policy statement blah blah blah closed

[2:53:34] Voice 3: closed meeting? No. Rising report? No. New business? We don't have any, I don't think.

[2:53:40] Voice 3: We jumped over that. The next item is a reminder that the next meeting is going to be held

[2:53:46] Voice 3: electronically December 12th at 6 p.m. And that concludes the business of this meeting. Thank you

[2:53:55] Voice 3: everybody for your patience. Thank you for the effort you put into it. We did a good chunk of

[2:53:59] Voice 3: work today. That's good. And with that, the meeting is adjourned. Thank you, everybody.

[2:54:05] Voice 19: Thank you, Chair Bernardo. Bye-bye.

Trust Council Committee of the Whole 
Meeting Minutes 
November 6, 2024 
ADOPTED 1 of 6 
 
 
Trust Council Committee of the Whole 
Minutes of a Regular Meeting 
 
Date: 
Location: 
November 6, 2024 
Electronic Meeting 
 
Executive Members Present: 1.  Peter Luckham, Trust Council Chair, Thetis Trustee 
 
2.  Tobi Elliott, Vice-Chair, Gabriola Trustee 
 
3.  David Maude, Vice-Chair, Mayne Trustee 
 
4.  Timothy Peterson, Vice-Chair, Lasqueti Trustee 
Members Present: 5.  Joe Bernardo, Acting Chair, Gambier Trustee 
 
6.  Sue Ellen Fast, Bowen Municipal Trustee 
 
7.  Judith Gedye, Bowen Municipal Trustee 
 
8.  Sam Borthwick, Denman Trustee 
 
9.  David Graham, Denman Trustee 
 
10. Susan Yates, Gabriola Trustee 
 
11. Ben Mabberley, Galiano Trustee 
 
12. Lisa Gauvreau, Galiano Trustee 
 
13. Alex Allen, Hornby Trustee 
 
14. Jeanine Dodds, Mayne Trustee 
 
15. Jamie Harris, Salt Spring Trustee 
 
16. Laura Patrick, Salt Spring Trustee 
 
17. Mairead Boland, Saturna Trustee 
 
18. Lee Middleton, Saturna Trustee 
 
19. Ken Hunter, Thetis Trustee 
Members Regrets: 
20. Kate-Louise Stamford, Gambier Trustee 
21. Grant Scott, Hornby Trustee 
22. Mikaila Lironi, Lasqueti Trustee 
23. Aaron Campbell, North Pender Trustee 
24. Deb Morrison, North Pender Trustee 
25. Kristina Evans, South Pender Trustee 
26. Dag Falck, South Pender Trustee 
Staff Present: Julia Mobbs, Interim Chief Administrative Officer 
 
David Marlor, Director, Legislative and Information Services 
 
Clare Frater, Director, Trust Area Services 
 
Stefan Cermak, Director, Planning Services 
 
Jason Youmans, Senior Policy Advisor 
 
Alexandra Trifonidis, Executive Coordinator 
 
Lisa Millard, Meeting Administrator/Recorder 
Members of the Public: There were no members of the public present. 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER / LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT 

Trust Council Committee of the Whole 
Meeting Minutes 
November 6, 2024 
ADOPTED 2 of 6 
 
Acting Chair Bernardo called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. He acknowledged that the 
meeting was held on the territory of the Coast Salish First Nations. 
Trust Council Chair Luckham briefly addressed the Committee of the Whole to provide an 
update on Executive Committee’s decision to remove the recording of the September, 2024 
Trust Council meeting from the Islands Trust website. 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
By general consent the agenda was approved as presented. 
Trustee Gedye arrived to the meeting at 6:10 p.m. 
3. ADOPTION OF MINUTES 
3.1 Draft Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes of September 25, 2024 
By general consent the Trust Council Committee of the Whole meeting minutes 
of September 25, 2024 were adopted as presented. 
3.2 Draft Committee of the Whole Meeting Minutes of October 3, 2024 
By general consent the Trust Council Committee of the Whole meeting minutes 
of October 3, 2024 were adopted as presented. 
4. FOLLOW UP ACTION LIST AND UPDATES 
4.1 Committee of the Whole Follow Up Action List 
Received for information. 
5. TRUST AREA SERVICES 
5.1 Policy Statement Amendment Project - Directive Polices - Briefing 
The Senior Policy Advisor summarized the briefing and highlighted the following: 
• The Islands Trust Act does not describe whether or not the Policy Statement should 
be directive or subjective; 
• Legal Counsel previously indicated it is within Trust Council’s purview to make the 
Policy Statement directive; and 
• A committee reviewed the Policy Statement in 2011 and noted that directive 
policies might be beneficial; however, if a directive policy is assigned an explanation 
should be included indicating why local trust committees have been directed to act 
in a prescribed manner. 
Trustee Allen left the meeting at 6:46 p.m. 
Discussion ensued and the following comments were noted: 
• Directive policies allow Trust Council and local trust committees to determine if a 
new bylaw meets the policies of, or is in conflict with, the Policy Statement; 
• Draft Policy Statement contains repetitive policies that are both directive and 
suggestive and this is causing confusion; 

Trust Council Committee of the Whole 
Meeting Minutes 
November 6, 2024 
ADOPTED 3 of 6 
 
• Directive policies that address potential impacts are within Islands Trust purview as 
a land use organization while advisory policies are distinct and can address issues 
outside of the jurisdiction of Islands Trust; 
• Difference between directive and advisory needs to clear and understood; 
• Directive policies, and reasons for them, should be specific, clear, not open to 
interpretation, less aspirational, and include a context statement; and 
• The Committee of the Whole has discretion on the use of directive, and less 
directive, statements and each can be addressed as Trustees work through the 
document. 
Trustee Allen returned to the meeting at 7:02 p.m. 
Trustees Mabberley and Allen left the meeting at 7:05 p.m. 
5.2 Draft Trust Policy Statement 
The Committee addressed a motion that was moved and seconded, and thus, still on the 
floor from the last Committee of the Whole meeting. 
TC-COW-2024-024 
It was MOVED by Trustee Elliott, and SECONDED by Trustee Bernardo, 
that Committee of the Whole recommends that Executive Committee direct 
staff to add a new directive policy “Ensure that the negative impacts of 
development on Indigenous cultural heritage, harvesting and hunting areas is 
minimal. 
DEFEATED 
 
Discussion ensued and the following comments were noted: 
• It was moved to amend the language in the motion to include the word “access” to 
ensure Indigenous People’s access to sites is not restricted; 
• Term “ensure negative impacts of development are minimal” implies access to 
those spaces; and 
• Term “negative impacts” is broad and the scope of language needs to be defined. 
The question on the motion was called. The motion was defeated to allow opportunity 
for staff to provide suggestions for effective language. 
It was MOVED by Trustee Fast, and SECONDED by Trustee Gedye, 
that Committee of the Whole request staff to come back with suggestions 
regarding ensuring access for Indigenous Peoples. 
By general consent Committee of the Whole defer the motion to the next 
meeting and request staff work with Trustees Fast and Gedye to review the 
language in the above motion. 
A Trustee indicated that items 2.1.3 and 3.4.2 in the draft policy statement, regarding 
limitations to the rate and scale of development, should align with each other and the 
following discussion points were noted: 

Trust Council Committee of the Whole 
Meeting Minutes 
November 6, 2024 
ADOPTED 4 of 6 
 
• Question if the statement “consider site capabilities and existing development 
patterns” upholds the mandate; 
• Official Community Plans identify limits, or build outs, for each island; 
• Support for defining appropriate limits rather than directing an action to limit; 
• Question if Islands Trust has tools to limit unwanted growth; 
• Identification of the types of growth in each local trust committee might vary; and 
• If there is consensus to a specific growth management issue then it can be 
prescribed. 
 
It was suggested that Committee of the Whole return to previously discussed items 
after such time that each item has been reviewed a first time. 
Trustee Dodds left the meeting at 7:26 p.m. 
The meeting was recessed for a break at 7:35 p.m. and reconvened at 7:45 p.m. 
Discussion ensued on Items 3.4.3 through 3.4.7 of the draft policy statement and the 
following comments were noted: 
3.4.3 – Impacts of Development 
• Term aesthetic speaks to rural character of the islands; 
• There can be positive social impacts of development; 
• Policy might be useful at a site specific level; and 
• Statement is non-directive and asks local trust committees to consider impacts. 
3.4.4 – Community Facilities and Services 
• Outdoor recreational amenities should be considered in addition to buildings and 
services. 
By general consent Committee of the Whole request staff attend to outdoor 
recreation in item 3.4.4 by adding words “and outdoor recreation” after 
recreational facilities and services. 
3.4.5 – Climate Change Mitigation and Adaptation 
• Greenhouse gas reduction targets are a legislated requirement of local government 
official community plans; however, the Province does not yet mandate local 
governments to mitigate climate change; 
• Statement asks to identify strategies but is not directive by stating said strategies be 
implemented; 
• Use of term “employ” or “encourage” instead of “consider”; 
• Considerations of climate change vulnerabilities are fundamental to the Islands 
Trust mandate; 
• This is the only policy that addresses climate change adaptation; and 
• Climate change is drastically impacting communities and one of the reasons for 
updating the Policy Statement. 
By general consent Committee of the Whole recommend staff add words “and 
encourage adoption of” after “Identify” in item 3.4.5. 
Trustee Luckham left the meeting at 8:18 p.m. 

Trust Council Committee of the Whole 
Meeting Minutes 
November 6, 2024 
ADOPTED 5 of 6 
 
3.4.6 – Hazardous Areas 
• Intention of section is clear while grammar might need improvement. 
By general consent Committee of the Whole recommend staff consider editing 
item 3.4.6 to maintain the original intention but improve the grammar. 
3.4.7 – Economic Activities 
• Additional policy on managing tourism should be considered; 
• Section is about fostering sustainable communities and managing tourism is within 
this purview; 
• Tourism is a growing issue that has ramifications; 
• Tourism should respect ecological limits; therefore, use of the term “sustainable 
tourism” should be considered; 
• Tourism is necessary and needs to be promoted not deterred; 
• Broad set of guidelines for tourism is required and the guidelines should not set a 
for or against tone as each island has different objectives; and 
• Ensure that tourism as an economic activity is sustainable and does not negatively 
impact the amenities of the Trust. 
By general consent Committee of the Whole request staff to develop, and 
return to Committee of the Whole, a policy to manage tourism in a sustainable 
manner. 
3.4.8 – Community Heritage Sites 
• No amendments were suggested. 
 
3.4.9 – Appropriate Locations for Densification 
• Support for identifying appropriate locations; 
• Locations of affordable housing will vary greatly within each local trust area; 
• Linking density to less dependency on private automobile use results in increased 
density closer to village centres; 
• “Not adversely impacting the Trust Area and its unique amenities and environment” 
should be removed as this is already a requirement of the legislated mandate; and 
• Local trust committees are best suited to determine appropriate areas for 
densification within their local trust area. 
Trustee Middleton left the meeting at 8:48 p.m. 
TC-COW-2024-025 
It was MOVED by Trustee Borthwick, and SECONDED by Trustee Boland 
that Committee of the Whole request staff strike words after “diverse and 
affordable housing” in item 3.4.9. 
 
CARRIED 
6. CLOSED MEETING - None 
7. RISE AND REPORT - None 
8. NEW BUSINESS - None 

Trust Council Committee of the Whole 
Meeting Minutes 
November 6, 2024 
ADOPTED 6 of 6 
 
9. NEXT MEETING 
The next Committee of the Whole meeting is scheduled to be held electronically on Thursday, 
December 12, 2024 at 6:00 p.m. 
10. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 8:53 p.m. 
 
 
 
 
 
Joe Bernardo, Acting Chair 
 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
 
 
 
Lisa Millard Meeting Administrator/Recorder