Islands Trust Council regular meeting, November 7, 2024

[0:00:00] Trustee Maude: Good morning. Thank you all for joining us today for this regular meeting of the

[0:00:04] Trustee Maude: Saturna Land Local Trust Committee. I want to begin the meeting by acknowledging that we're

[0:00:09] Trustee Maude: fortunate to be able to gather in locations across the territory of the Coast Salish people.

[0:00:13] Trustee Maude: I'm David Norweger of Maine Island and Chair of North St. Andrew Island. I'm sorry,

[0:00:17] Trustee Maude: Saturna Land Local Trust Committee. I have Trustee Middleton beside me and Trustee Bowen

[0:00:26] Trustee Maude: is joining us online so can

[0:00:29] Voice 5: i just can i just say that there's a very bad echo and i am wearing a

[0:00:34] Voice 5: headset maybe somebody else can comment as to whether they also have an echo or it's just me

[0:00:40] Voice 5: i

[0:00:40] Voice 1: don't have an echo on my end okay

[0:00:44] Voice 5: I don't have an actual

[0:00:46] Trustee Maude: focus on your speakers on this does that help speak

[0:00:52] Voice 5: again is that better

[0:00:54] Trustee Maude: yes

[0:00:55] Voice 5: okay

[0:00:56] Trustee Maude: so it might have been the small laptop is misbehaving itself so I believe we've corrected

[0:01:01] Trustee Maude: that still

[0:01:02] Voice 5: not great but let's carry on I don't know um so Warren or anybody else is it

[0:01:10] Voice 13: it should be should be contained within the program so

[0:01:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: i chair i'm not having any audio

[0:01:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: issues at this time

[0:01:17] Voice 5: okay all right so stand to me in some way i'll see if i can figure it out thank

[0:01:23] Voice 5: you

[0:01:23] Trustee Maude: fair enough um

[0:01:26] Voice 13: let me try another one okay so

[0:01:45] Trustee Maude: together we we may have this around i don't

[0:01:48] Trustee Maude: know just maybe this needs to be live screen and recorded for those who are able to attend

[0:01:51] Trustee Maude: And of course, today, the recording will be posted to the Ohio State's website for future viewing.

[0:01:55] Trustee Maude: We have some staff members joining us today.

[0:01:58] Trustee Maude: We have Brad Smith, who's our planner for the hour.

[0:02:01] Trustee Maude: I see that our person manager, Warren Dignas, is online.

[0:02:08] Trustee Maude: We have Emily Bryant and Kyra Dilley, who are doing our electronic Zoom mastering, which we very much appreciate.

[0:02:17] Trustee Maude: I don't see anybody else with us.

[0:02:21] Trustee Maude: so we just let you know this meeting is an official forum for trust me to make a decision

[0:02:24] Trustee Maude: about planning planning matters and discussion about business and we welcome our crd director

[0:02:31] Trustee Maude: mr brent thank you for joining us and i want to add this is a place of employment despite

[0:02:37] Trustee Maude: many staff or other homes our staff are ready to save the most respectful workplace

[0:02:43] Trustee Maude: so for us we have an agenda um does anybody have any additions or

[0:02:49] Trustee Maude: comments on the agenda. Otherwise, we can just adopt a buy-in

[0:02:52] Trustee Maude: general conception.

[0:02:57] Trustee Maude: I

[0:02:58] Trustee Middleton: think Marietz asked for something in regard

[0:03:01] Trustee Middleton: to the Harrison survey, but Gladys Smith said he would just include it in his

[0:03:06] Trustee Middleton: brief on Harrison. Is that correct? Yeah, go ahead, Darcy.

[0:03:11] Voice 5: That's fine. We can deal with that later. I actually

[0:03:13] Voice 5: thought we were on to adopt in a minute, so I just had a typo

[0:03:17] Voice 5: problem to raise in that so okay

[0:03:21] Trustee Maude: they are less down on nine okay

[0:03:24] Voice 5: a few

[0:03:25] Trustee Maude: minutes away from that

[0:03:26] Trustee Maude: because we know that director brent's going to go on or half an hour or so all right so

[0:03:33] Trustee Maude: five percent would improve the agenda um so we have trustee report

[0:03:37] Trustee Maude: who wants to be the trustee to inform us first

[0:03:45] Trustee Middleton: Yes, we've just in terms of working on some of the conservation projects to update on unfortunately

[0:03:56] Trustee Middleton: things are moving very slowly there in terms of Duny-Myers land has now been referred back to MOTI

[0:04:05] Trustee Middleton: Ministry of Transportation for a formal prop normal subdivision request rather than a

[0:04:10] Trustee Middleton: subdivision in the public interest um i emailed you this morning was to see because now that's

[0:04:16] Trustee Middleton: out of the local trust committee's hands that's now between her and the ministry of transportation

[0:04:21] Trustee Middleton: is to see if she had an update and i haven't heard back so my fear is that might be now

[0:04:29] Trustee Middleton: slowed down hopefully not maybe more positive but um um and then there was beginnings of

[0:04:40] Trustee Middleton: the conservation uh project out at east point in terms of the wetland but i don't know that

[0:04:47] Trustee Middleton: that's advancing in this point in time that would now require the landowner to come forward with the

[0:04:52] Trustee Middleton: proposal which i don't believe um they are um willing to do at this point so um yeah so but

[0:05:01] Trustee Middleton: there's primitive work done on both of those that's uh you know i won't say it's it's it's

[0:05:06] Trustee Middleton: uh we say that it's good foundation work but there's really nothing nothing to report in a

[0:05:12] Trustee Middleton: positive moving forward directly on both of those right at this point unfortunately so uh uh i think

[0:05:19] Trustee Middleton: that absolutely that we can discuss further in the town hall i'm sure there's some other issues

[0:05:24] Trustee Middleton: coming up around housing project and uh those water issues and whatnot so i'll just leave it

[0:05:30] Trustee Middleton: until we can have the data.

[0:05:32] Voice 13: Excellent.

[0:05:33] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Warren?

[0:05:36] Voice 5: Nothing much to add that's local to Citerna other than,

[0:05:40] Voice 5: so I'll go back to the Trust Council meeting in September.

[0:05:45] Voice 5: It was agreed, there was a letter sent to ask the province

[0:05:52] Voice 5: to review the Islands Trust.

[0:05:55] Voice 5: I would say that the vote to ask for a review was almost unanimous, short of one vote.

[0:06:07] Voice 5: And then there were two other votes.

[0:06:10] Voice 5: You know, various people had had ideas about how the other content that might be in the letter.

[0:06:17] Voice 5: But given that it took us two years to reach this stage,

[0:06:21] Voice 5: and though it was carried that we would go with the letter as drafted by a work group and there

[0:06:29] Voice 5: was another vote which effectively was around timing of sending the request in view of the

[0:06:35] Voice 5: election again there was a bit of disagreement about that but it carried that we would send

[0:06:41] Voice 5: the letter immediately which has since happened. So fundamentally the motion to request a review

[0:06:53] Voice 5: of all the aspects of the trust was carried almost unanimously. So that was one thing and

[0:07:03] Voice 5: the second thing is that a new CAO was selected and you will probably have seen the notice of

[0:07:10] Voice 5: of that. I don't off the top of my head remember his name, apologies. And I'm not entirely

[0:07:17] Voice 5: sure maybe Lee can update us on that, when exactly he's coming on board. But yeah, there's

[0:07:24] Voice 5: a new CAO coming to the Trust. Can't think of anything else for the moment. Thanks.

[0:07:33] Trustee Maude: Okay, so

[0:07:34] Trustee Maude: for the CEO, his name is Ruben Brody. He comes to us in front of the provincial

[0:07:41] Trustee Maude: government. I would say with some confidence, a very good hire for the trust, a very good fit.

[0:07:52] Trustee Maude: We're really, really happy to be bringing him aboard. He'll be starting on December 31st.

[0:07:59] Voice 7: his experience

[0:08:02] Trustee Maude: his background from the province

[0:08:04] Trustee Maude: he has sort of direct

[0:08:06] Trustee Maude: experience with

[0:08:08] Trustee Maude: the trust

[0:08:10] Trustee Maude: that way but also

[0:08:12] Trustee Maude: he has a very

[0:08:13] Trustee Maude: he's from a management background

[0:08:16] Trustee Maude: and a very calm

[0:08:17] Trustee Maude: and instructive personality

[0:08:20] Trustee Maude: like this is

[0:08:21] Trustee Maude: you get the impression

[0:08:26] Trustee Maude: that he will really

[0:08:28] Trustee Maude: really help the organization

[0:08:31] Trustee Maude: in becoming a little bit more stable, a little bit more organized in some ways.

[0:08:38] Trustee Maude: He also, I think it's important to point out, is basically in a way he chose us.

[0:08:45] Trustee Maude: He was in a very high ranking position within the government, secure in his position as such.

[0:08:51] Trustee Maude: And he decided, he elected to apply for the job.

[0:08:56] Trustee Maude: and through the interview process and all that he was profoundly enthusiastic about the trust

[0:09:02] Trustee Maude: so i just i think for us he brought a lot of what was desired to the table but also for him

[0:09:11] Trustee Maude: he saw working for the trust to be a highly desirable thing so i just it was very positive

[0:09:17] Trustee Maude: to me so i i i'm very very confident that it's he's going to bring a lot of good stuff to the

[0:09:24] Trustee Maude: trust thank

[0:09:24] Voice 7: you for your opinion on that and your awesome uh description otherwise it's not anybody

[0:09:29] Voice 7: i know from

[0:09:30] Trustee Maude: that

[0:09:31] Voice 7: matters so

[0:09:33] Trustee Maude: thank you and hopefully you will is i'm sure in his initial

[0:09:38] Trustee Maude: first year he'll be coming around local trust committees so i'm hopeful that he'll have an

[0:09:44] Trustee Maude: opportunity to meet you personally and you get to know him personally but as i said i'm relatively

[0:09:51] Voice 5: I'm sorry David did I miss when is he actually when is his first day on December

[0:09:56] Trustee Maude: 1st okay

[0:09:58] Voice 5: so

[0:10:00] Trustee Maude: he's just in his process of exiting from the province um he has some vacation time gathered

[0:10:05] Trustee Maude: up so he's taking some time to be with his family for a couple of weeks on vacation

[0:10:09] Trustee Maude: and then he'll be coming on a vacation and coming into our offices and straight into

[0:10:14] Trustee Maude: December Trust Council, so

[0:10:15] Voice 13: the first

[0:10:18] Trustee Maude: couple of weeks, his head will be exploding with information,

[0:10:23] Trustee Maude: so it will be great. Otherwise, the policy statement review continues. We're still

[0:10:32] Trustee Maude: kind of setting the foundation. One of the things that we've done at executive is we've

[0:10:41] Trustee Maude: the public consultation process and all that,

[0:10:44] Trustee Maude: we pared it down quite considerably

[0:10:48] Trustee Maude: because the thought is we would like to get to first reading

[0:10:51] Trustee Maude: and get the input that way

[0:10:54] Trustee Maude: rather than do a whole bunch of spending a considerable amount of money going around

[0:11:02] Trustee Maude: and getting input and then taking it to first reading

[0:11:06] Trustee Maude: and then perhaps getting a whole set of feedback.

[0:11:08] Trustee Maude: So we found last term, when we tried to take the first reading, that was what stimulated all the public feedback.

[0:11:17] Trustee Maude: And so the intent is, we hope that we've captured most of what was said in the past.

[0:11:25] Trustee Maude: We have some relative confidence that the document's pretty close to being at the acceptable level.

[0:11:32] Trustee Maude: level. And so we'd like to advance it in a little bit faster process than what was requested.

[0:11:39] Trustee Maude: But as part of that is we're taking the budget down quite a bit. So we'll be seeing a trust

[0:11:46] Trustee Maude: council in December, how trust council feels about that. But we're hoping to get this thing

[0:11:52] Trustee Maude: advanced and sort of tied up in a relatively reasonable amount of time. So rather than

[0:11:59] Trustee Maude: in a two or three year timeline maybe a one-year timeline but that is out of our hands now the

[0:12:05] Trustee Maude: executive's made its recommendation to trust council and trust council will make its decision

[0:12:10] Trustee Maude: based on that

[0:12:10] Voice 7: um just so this will what the document looks like won't have any more public

[0:12:18] Voice 7: input it will it's in creation the final creation will be at trust council yes

[0:12:25] Trustee Maude: and no we trust

[0:12:26] Trustee Maude: trust council is always we had committed the whole meeting last night doing some more literally

[0:12:31] Trustee Maude: we're spending um so the the input will continue um that document will land if it is

[0:12:40] Trustee Maude: from

[0:12:41] Voice 7: from trustees yes

[0:12:43] Voice 7: but

[0:12:45] Trustee Maude: although certainly is that through the portal you can put all the

[0:12:49] Trustee Maude: in the input you want currently um so

[0:12:52] Voice 7: only online yeah

[0:12:54] Trustee Maude: well

[0:12:55] Voice 7: yeah once

[0:12:57] Trustee Maude: we get to to go to first

[0:12:59] Trustee Maude: reading then of course publication has been put in at that point so thank

[0:13:05] Voice 13: you so i

[0:13:06] Voice 5: was just going

[0:13:08] Voice 5: to say that um it uh there was a discussion about how this sort of engagement with the communities

[0:13:15] Voice 5: should happen and most trustees agreed that it was the job of local trustees to take it to their

[0:13:25] Voice 5: communities at this stage and that that was how it would be launched or reviewed and that would

[0:13:33] Voice 5: certainly happen after first reading at least and possibly between second and third reading

[0:13:39] Voice 5: But actually, right now, this minute, if you go to the agendas of the Committee of the Whole meetings, you will see really the current status of it and the recommended changes.

[0:13:55] Voice 5: It's not completely clear. It's more or less clear because it's a kind of an iterative moving goalpost, but you will get a flavour of it.

[0:14:05] Voice 5: it's now down to 20 pages and it's quite like readable so it's much easier to review understand

[0:14:14] Voice 5: I don't remember the first draft was probably I don't know 30 or 40 pages I can't really remember

[0:14:21] Voice 5: now it's very dense so this is much much more succinct and you can see it in its current form

[0:14:30] Voice 5: forum, if you go to any of the Committee of the Whole meetings and look at those agendas.

[0:14:37] Trustee Maude: Thank you, Professor Bowen. I'll conclude at that, and I see that our

[0:14:41] Trustee Maude: Electoral Director is here and prepared to speak, so I will hand the

[0:14:46] Voice 11: floor over to him.

[0:14:47] Voice 11: Sure. So I guess the initiatives I'm focusing on most are housing issues, initiatives, and

[0:14:55] Voice 11: we are making progress, albeit at a glacial pace, but we are making progress for the first

[0:15:02] Voice 11: Ever. And so I know that the staff of the CRD, Justine Stark, have been working quite closely with staff, your staff, at various initiatives.

[0:15:15] Voice 11: And I'm delighted to see, I must say, that the secondary suite issue is being addressed at this particular point.

[0:15:25] Voice 11: In respect of Ruth and Romney, I do have a mention to you that my contacts within the

[0:15:31] Voice 11: Ministry of Education spoke very highly of them.

[0:15:34] Voice 11: And right now, a few hours, I believe the ADM of Communications, Ministry of Communications,

[0:15:40] Voice 11: which I think across the desk that we can meet up, have someone that's good at communications

[0:15:46] Voice 11: and good at public engagement, particularly given the transparency statement and the massive

[0:15:53] Voice 11: massive amount of money and time that has been invested in that industry. So that's really

[0:16:02] Voice 11: all I have to say right now is other stuff around the periphery. We're working on acquiring some

[0:16:08] Voice 11: additional part of what we're on on North Pandora Island, nothing here at the moment, but things are

[0:16:14] Voice 11: moving along well and it's a budget time. So what I'm seeing is that costs are going up everywhere

[0:16:24] Voice 11: people are complaining bitterly about it and i have to point out that a number of things first

[0:16:30] Voice 11: of all a lot of the stuff that certainly the crp does has to do with infrastructure infrastructure

[0:16:36] Voice 11: costs are way higher than a consumer's price index it's just a reality you look at the

[0:16:43] Voice 11: industrial products price index it tracks way higher than consumer price index the other thing

[0:16:48] Voice 11: The other thing is, the things that all people want, like reconciliation, well, the costs

[0:16:53] Voice 11: of reconciliation are considerable.

[0:16:56] Voice 11: And so people have to accept the fact that if we want reconciliation, costs are going

[0:17:01] Voice 11: to go up.

[0:17:02] Voice 11: Engagement costs are, you know, and we do some work on a park here, on Cistern on Hatton

[0:17:08] Voice 11: Park, we have to have First Nations involved at a rate significantly higher than locals

[0:17:14] Voice 11: would pay.

[0:17:15] Voice 11: And that's just the price of reconciliation.

[0:17:17] Voice 11: So I want people from what's going on government, they have to understand that some of us outside

[0:17:26] Voice 11: our control or within their control because people are demanding that we spend money on

[0:17:31] Voice 11: their resolution.

[0:17:32] Voice 11: That's it.

[0:17:33] Voice 11: Which I'm in favor of, by the way.

[0:17:36] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:17:38] Voice 7: All over again.

[0:17:40] Voice 7: I understand the reconciliation before you were talking about infrastructure, are you

[0:17:45] Voice 7: Are you talking about us simply maintaining the synergy or are you talking about building

[0:17:49] Voice 7: the infrastructure?

[0:17:51] Voice 11: Principally maintaining, but often times that means, yeah, often times that means upgrading

[0:18:01] Voice 11: it to meet new standards.

[0:18:03] Voice 11: So we know that we've got oil and water advisories on Saturna Hall, for instance.

[0:18:09] Voice 11: That isn't because things changed.

[0:18:12] you know, in the environment, what changed is government regulations.

[0:18:18] Voice 11: Tightened up measures

[0:18:19] Voice 11: of eligibility and we fell outside of that. So we're looking at various initiatives to try to

[0:18:25] Voice 11: improve that. All of those initiatives represent new capital policy, which could be borne

[0:18:31] Voice 11: principally by users, but it's all part of the same basket. Thank you. Thank you.

[0:18:39] Trustee Maude: So now we move

[0:18:40] Trustee Maude: to tell them all on the table he has any questions or concerns or comments raise your hand give you

[0:18:48] Trustee Maude: a few minutes to me i just have a

[0:18:51] Voice 5: could i just raise something here um the town hall to participate

[0:18:57] Voice 5: online you would need to have an attendee link and we haven't put that out is that normal or

[0:19:05] Voice 5: for a local trust committee because theoretically people could

[0:19:10] Voice 5: attend and comment at a town hall online yeah thanks brad

[0:19:16] Voice 6: stupid chair uh technically this isn't

[0:19:20] Voice 6: an electronic meeting you are just attending

[0:19:22] Voice 6: electronically so uh the ability of the public is only to uh to watch and view the proceedings

[0:19:30] Voice 6: meetings, they're not technically allowed to participate. We do sometimes have a consultant

[0:19:37] Voice 6: or staff, of course, coming in on Zoom, or the odd applicant, of course. But it's not

[0:19:45] Voice 6: open to the public in that way, as an electronic scheduled meeting would be, where then that

[0:19:51] Voice 6: public is enabled that.

[0:19:54] Voice 6: so

[0:19:55] Voice 5: we should think about that in the context of any of the community information meetings etc

[0:20:01] Voice 5: that we have insofar as it's possible to do it in a practical way we just need to have that as

[0:20:08] Voice 5: a kind of a consideration because i think there are so many people who um you know you know may

[0:20:16] Voice 5: not be on saturn at a particular time i think would be helpful but that's for a later discussion

[0:20:27] Voice 8: I just wanted to confirm that I talked to David Long at the start of this meeting about

[0:20:31] Voice 8: some presentations that I would like to make about the secondary suites by-law, and I was

[0:20:37] Voice 8: agreed that I would have that opportunity when the agenda item came up, but I haven't

[0:20:42] Voice 8: been doing all that.

[0:20:43] Trustee Maude: Yeah, most definitely.

[0:20:44] Trustee Maude: So there's two opportunities.

[0:20:47] Trustee Maude: You have your letters on the agenda.

[0:20:49] Trustee Maude: Yeah.

[0:20:49] Trustee Maude: So at that point.

[0:20:50] Trustee Maude: and then we move over a few minutes later into the project so there should be two real strong

[0:20:57] Trustee Maude: opportunities for you to speak great

[0:21:01] Voice 7: uh i would love to put forth my appreciation of being on the

[0:21:07] Voice 7: advisory planning committee for saturn island and hoping that that um method of community

[0:21:17] Voice 7: conversation takes place with this current, what is it,

[0:21:22] Voice 7: minor housing, what's it called, yeah,

[0:21:27] Voice 7: minor housing, minor amendments housing project.

[0:21:31] Voice 7: And that when we have a large meeting

[0:21:33] Voice 7: that people go into which is a very good idea

[0:21:36] Voice 7: and I appreciated that.

[0:21:38] Voice 7: I think that, see, you can see one, two, three,

[0:21:42] Voice 7: four of us right now,

[0:21:44] Voice 7: that having the opportunity in a more casual circumstance to discuss this broadly with a lot

[0:21:52] Voice 7: of invitation of people would be really helpful and i would love to continue on

[0:21:58] Voice 7: um uh housing is a really popular subject right now and i think it would be good to have some

[0:22:07] Voice 7: very broad based discussions that the advisory planning committee could do so that there's

[0:22:14] Voice 7: pretty discussion before we go to making decisions as you can see there's four of us here and

[0:22:20] Voice 7: sometimes there's eight of us and i doubt there's very few people particularly new people who

[0:22:26] Voice 7: even know what the land use bylaw is or what the trust is and but rather than having

[0:22:33] Voice 7: a lot of emotions about housing, about, you know, we need this, we need that, have some

[0:22:40] Voice 7: comprehension of governance of each of the items, I think, would lead to more informative

[0:22:49] Voice 7: and helpful discussion when it comes time to actually be evaluating suggestions.

[0:22:56] Voice 7: I doubt there's very many people who have this and work on any changes to our learning

[0:23:02] Voice 7: reduced bylaw. And I think

[0:23:04] Voice 7: more people that have buy-in

[0:23:06] Voice 7: because they don't know what's happening,

[0:23:08] Voice 7: the more effective

[0:23:09] Voice 7: the decisions will be.

[0:23:14] Voice 7: I just

[0:23:16] Voice 7: really appreciate governance and appreciate

[0:23:18] Voice 7: people being familiar

[0:23:19] Voice 7: with what it does for us and

[0:23:22] Voice 7: why we might do that rather than

[0:23:24] Voice 7: hearing in the store,

[0:23:25] Voice 7: please get

[0:23:28] Voice 7: involved or please think about it

[0:23:30] Voice 7: and please know what is affecting

[0:23:32] Voice 7: some of these changes.

[0:23:34] Voice 7: So I see having the Evaluate Advisory Planning Committee

[0:23:39] Voice 7: is that it allows in a more relaxed atmosphere,

[0:23:45] Voice 7: discussion and comprehension

[0:23:46] Voice 7: of why somebody might make changes

[0:23:49] Voice 7: or why those changes might really not apply to the city.

[0:23:53] Voice 13: Thank you, anybody else?

[0:23:58] Voice 13: Okay, thank you very much.

[0:24:00] Voice 7: Lee, do you have any response to that or Ray?

[0:24:06] Trustee Middleton: Well, I think that this is the very beginning of that project, that migrant housing amendment.

[0:24:12] Trustee Middleton: So as it proceeds, I think there's lots of opportunity for engagement for sure.

[0:24:20] Trustee Middleton: Specifically what it is right at this point, I don't think we'll come.

[0:24:24] Trustee Middleton: We won't know much until we have more discussion today.

[0:24:29] Trustee Middleton: I think we might have different understandings of it in terms of what's being proposed as

[0:24:39] Trustee Middleton: far as secondary suites go, and so if that emerges today, then obviously further discussion

[0:24:45] Trustee Middleton: is required.

[0:24:49] Voice 7: And Mirek, what is your opinion on that?

[0:24:51] Voice 5: I think I agree with Lee, we're at the very beginning of the process.

[0:24:55] Voice 5: we can have wide-ranging discussions and community information sessions no problem

[0:25:01] Voice 5: and I get frustrated at the level of participation personally I try and advertise widely and you know

[0:25:10] Voice 5: I put things in the scribbler I put things on Facebook I send out emails and I don't think

[0:25:17] Voice 5: people really rally until they're uh they see something they disagree with and um perhaps you

[0:25:27] Voice 5: know the lack of participation is a sign that we're doing a good job i would like to think that

[0:25:32] Voice 5: that's through but um it is difficult and um we just do our best put schedule the meetings and

[0:25:41] Voice 5: and follow the process, provide plenty of information to people and see what happens.

[0:25:48] Voice 5: And, you know, if people want to advise us on, you know, a timing for a meeting that would work

[0:25:54] Voice 5: better, then, you know, we can accept input like that. I'd be glad to hear from anybody who can,

[0:26:02] Voice 5: you know, make some suggestions in that regard. Thanks.

[0:26:08] Voice 8: I think there's a lot of people on the island that are concerned about housing issues and would like to participate in some way.

[0:26:16] Voice 8: I don't think that local trust meetings or community information meetings associated with that is a good way to get community involved and start.

[0:26:27] Voice 8: We used to have, years ago, we would have some roundtable discussions, right, casual opportunities for people to get together and just talk about those issues without looking at specific bylaws or trying to advise the trustees or whatever.

[0:26:45] Voice 8: ever is just inform the community and let them have a chance to talk among themselves

[0:26:53] Voice 8: and create some ideas and then use that to feed into the process and whatever.

[0:26:59] Voice 8: And I would certainly encourage something like that again, because I think there is

[0:27:03] Voice 8: a lot of interest, but people just aren't going to show up to these meetings.

[0:27:07] Voice 7: And so we used to have food with them, and that was a very good placement.

[0:27:11] Voice 13: It does work.

[0:27:13] Voice 13: It does work for that.

[0:27:14] Voice 13: Well,

[0:27:15] Voice 7: that's where we see the value. So instead of people coming up against this, this is what will happen. Right now, they've already thought about it and feel they have some skin in the game. And so I think the results are better.

[0:27:29] Voice 7: but but

[0:27:31] Voice 5: the thing about it is the process that we're doing now and the meetings we hold they

[0:27:37] Voice 5: do not preclude the kind of discussions that you want and they can accommodate those discussions

[0:27:45] Voice 5: no problem there can be um discussions organized by other groups not the islands trust who would

[0:27:54] Voice 5: and then bring the material to the islands trust so you know there's um i i think we just have to

[0:28:05] Voice 5: get going and and you know organize within the process of the islands trust which we have to

[0:28:11] Voice 5: follow um the meetings that are appropriate in the consultative process thank you thank

[0:28:22] Trustee Maude: you

[0:28:22] Trustee Maude: all right so moving on now we have a minute for us at 9.1 and 9.2 uh trustee bowman do you have

[0:28:32] Trustee Maude: something to bring up on that you are muted it's

[0:28:39] Voice 5: uh just a typo i think in the um page

[0:28:44] Voice 5: six i think it is page three of eight page six of the agenda minor housing amendments project

[0:28:51] Voice 5: project and third bullet point there's a building permit can space not been issued within the East

[0:29:00] Voice 5: Point water management area so there's just um miss type should

[0:29:07] Voice 13: you be um yeah

[0:29:14] Voice 5: cannot be issued

[0:29:15] Voice 5: I think,

[0:29:16] Trustee Maude: unless

[0:29:17] Voice 5: the applicant has yet cannot be issued. Yeah.

[0:29:21] Trustee Maude: So a slight typo and I'm sure that many takers take note of that.

[0:29:27] Trustee Maude: It will be.

[0:29:29] Voice 7: Yes, thank you.

[0:29:30] Trustee Maude: All right, so otherwise, so my general consent, we can adopt the means of July 18, as amended.

[0:29:41] Trustee Maude: Then we have 9.2, we have the second 26th resolution of that meeting report, dated October

[0:29:47] Trustee Maude: 2024.

[0:29:48] Trustee Maude: Any concerns there?

[0:29:52] Trustee Maude: Fairly straightforward.

[0:29:53] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:29:54] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:29:55] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:30:00] Voice 13: Are we on 9.1?

[0:30:01] Voice 13: We've

[0:30:02] Trustee Maude: done 9.1, we're on 9.2.

[0:30:05] Voice 7: And there were no resolutions about meetings?

[0:30:08] Trustee Maude: There was one resolution about meetings, and that's what we're just in the process of dealing with.

[0:30:12] Voice 7: Okay, so you'll read that out for us?

[0:30:14] Trustee Maude: Okay, well, I'm going to go to that then.

[0:30:16] Trustee Maude: That's page 12.

[0:30:19] Voice 7: And that would be a general item that we have to follow through with.

[0:30:23] Trustee Maude: So we're going to go over to 5.

[0:30:25] Trustee Maude: but the certain time it doesn't mean direct staff to withdraw

[0:30:30] Trustee Maude: and call from that commission.

[0:30:32] Trustee Maude: Exclusion application, ID 100176 from the ALC web group

[0:30:38] Trustee Maude: and the closed file SA ALR 2023.1 hall.

[0:30:43] Trustee Maude: So that's the whole family

[0:30:45] Trustee Maude: rescinding their application to the ALR.

[0:30:49] Voice 12: The boroughs, there's two others on here as well.

[0:30:51] Voice 12: to

[0:30:51] Voice 6: adopt uh bylaws 140 and 141 for uh the

[0:30:56] Voice 12: painting also adopted

[0:31:02] Voice 6: by rwm after the receipt

[0:31:05] Voice 6: uh resolution without meeting it's uh uh

[0:31:08] Voice 7: rwm sorry

[0:31:11] Voice 13: sorry

[0:31:12] Voice 12: so by

[0:31:17] Trustee Maude: that we're okay with those two all right all right so this is right up for the minutes

[0:31:22] Trustee Maude: it's page 13. We have a follow-up action list to 2024. I don't see anything you want to add,

[0:31:30] Trustee Maude: any questions? It's all complete, there's not much there.

[0:31:35] Trustee Maude: Let's see the question. No questions on those? No, thank you. All right, so we move down to

[0:31:42] Trustee Maude: correspondence. We have 12.1, we have agenda 1, correspondence group regarding local trust committee

[0:31:49] Trustee Maude: committee hosting an amendments review, so that's good for you.

[0:31:55] Voice 5: Is it appropriate to respond to the correspondence from Janet Land?

[0:32:02] Voice 13: Certainly.

[0:32:03] Voice 5: Sure. So Janet, I know you're there. There were a couple of things in there which I think Brad

[0:32:11] Voice 5: since clarified with you, but it would be good to, two things in particular.

[0:32:17] Voice 5: The first thing is really clarity on the fact that the saltwater intrusion information maps report everything that we are using and basing our decisions yet to come, no decisions made, is from the province.

[0:32:43] Voice 5: The province, since the last review of the secondary suites issue,

[0:32:52] Voice 5: completely, or not completely, they basically revisited the data that existed.

[0:32:58] Voice 5: And one thing in particular, they changed the way in which they addressed the pumping threat.

[0:33:07] Voice 5: In the previous analysis, they used a well density method. In this analysis, they updated that method to assign a water use estimate to each well and use that as the pumping threat and therefore updated all the maps.

[0:33:27] Voice 5: The pumping, the estimate, water use estimate assigned to a domestic well, single family residential in those provincial ports is actually 500 gallons per day.

[0:33:41] Voice 5: so just to emphasize that those maps in my view are a worst case scenario because your average

[0:33:48] Voice 5: um residential domestic user um in the gulf islands on a well is not using 500 gallons a day

[0:33:57] Voice 5: but we'll leave that as it is and the second thing janet that you actually raised was that we had

[0:34:04] Voice 5: referred to first nations and we didn't refer anything to first nations a kind of a standard

[0:34:11] Voice 5: project kickoff thing happened which was that a letter went to first nations

[0:34:18] Voice 5: um just drawing their attention to the fact that this minor amendments project was kicking off

[0:34:25] Voice 5: and if they wanted to participate or comment in any way there will be later um explicit

[0:34:34] Voice 5: formal referrals of anything that we do but this was just a kind of um any an engagement at the

[0:34:42] Voice 5: beginning of the project just as the information went out to the community in the agenda and the

[0:34:51] Voice 5: minutes um this was formally sent to 15 first nations so those are just two things i think that

[0:34:59] Voice 5: maybe you you questioned or asked in the letter that it's worth clarifying for everybody's benefit

[0:35:07] Voice 5: and so thanks anybody want to add anything brad have i misspoken in any way

[0:35:17] Voice 13: i'd

[0:35:18] Voice 8: like to add to make up that specific letter uh which was written back in july

[0:35:24] Voice 8: The maps that I showed there, those were from the last report that was done at East Point

[0:35:37] Voice 8: in 2010.

[0:35:42] Voice 8: Those maps were actually created by actual testing of wells, not any speculation about

[0:35:50] Voice 8: about how much water was being used,

[0:35:53] Voice 8: whether that was actual testing.

[0:35:55] Voice 8: And if you read that, the promises report

[0:35:59] Voice 8: that will indicate that.

[0:36:01] Voice 8: I will be addressing some other issues

[0:36:04] Voice 8: about those provincial maps when we get to the actual.

[0:36:11] Voice 8: Thank you.

[0:36:12] Voice 8: Thanks.

[0:36:13] Voice 8: Sure. Thanks.

[0:36:15] Trustee Maude: All right.

[0:36:16] Trustee Maude: So next, Peace Corps Chronicles 12.2,

[0:36:19] Trustee Maude: which is page 17 and 18 from Fisheries and Oceans Canada,

[0:36:23] Trustee Maude: read Southern Western Resident Killer Whale

[0:36:25] Trustee Maude: proposed measures, that's for your information.

[0:36:30] Trustee Maude: Anything from the trustees about that or?

[0:36:34] Trustee Maude: No, just good that

[0:36:35] Trustee Middleton: they're engaged in,

[0:36:39] Trustee Middleton: they're keeping us engaged in their initiatives

[0:36:44] Trustee Middleton: and obviously appreciated the input, so that's good.

[0:36:51] Trustee Maude: Excellent. Thank you. All right. So we'll move on to section 13, which is page 19, which is 13.1 of the PLDP 2024-229 LNC, the staff report.

[0:37:07] Trustee Maude: So over to you, Planner Smith.

[0:37:10] Voice 6: Yeah, I'll be presenting for Planner Testimony today.

[0:37:12] Voice 6: Since he's not available today, I'm not sure that we'll see anyone representing the applicant here.

[0:37:18] Voice 6: here. So we will just speak in the absence of that, but there's a pretty straightforward

[0:37:23] Voice 6: development permit application seeking to impose a deck into the Bluffs DEP at their

[0:37:32] Voice 6: property located at 180 and 182 Westside. Currently there are two lots that they're

[0:37:39] Voice 6: planning to consolidate into one lot and then build their proposed structure, which is presented

[0:37:47] Voice 6: to page 21 of the report. The only encroachment into the BLAST-DP is the area of their deck

[0:37:55] Voice 6: as shown in the dashed line on that Figure 2 site plan. There is an attached biologist

[0:38:02] Voice 6: report that describes the conditions of the development and provides recommendations.

[0:38:12] Voice 6: those recommendations are then captured in the development permit conditions. The property

[0:38:22] Voice 6: owner will also require if they continue with their proposed house plan to seek variance

[0:38:29] Voice 6: for total lot coverage when they consolidate the lots, the maximum coverage allowed would

[0:38:34] Voice 6: would be 20%. And the structures of their proposing would exceed

[0:38:39] Voice 6: that by 4%. So at some point in the future, the applicants, but

[0:38:46] Voice 6: they can't apply for that variance until you get the

[0:38:55] Voice 6: consolidation completed with the ministry. It's slightly more

[0:38:59] Voice 6: complicated as the two lots have different lot numbers. So

[0:39:03] Voice 6: So there's one subdivision and then another subdivision.

[0:39:05] Voice 6: So if the lots have the same plan number,

[0:39:09] Voice 6: they can be easily consolidated.

[0:39:10] Voice 6: If they don't have the same plan number,

[0:39:13] Voice 6: then nobody needs to be involved

[0:39:14] Voice 6: and it's easier than a typical subdivision,

[0:39:16] Voice 6: but it's more processed.

[0:39:18] Voice 6: So they want the assurance of this DP in place first,

[0:39:22] Voice 6: so that they know that they can do what they want

[0:39:24] Voice 6: in the lots area,

[0:39:25] Voice 1: and

[0:39:25] Voice 6: then they will follow up with the unprocessed steps.

[0:39:28] Voice 6: They've also suggested

[0:39:32] Voice 6: that they would be willing to donate the density that will be removed when they consolidate

[0:39:39] Voice 6: the lots, they'll lose that density, and they suggested that they may be willing to donate

[0:39:46] Voice 6: that to the community amendment density reserve, but that would be something to pursue with

[0:39:53] Voice 6: them as they continue on with this process.

[0:39:58] Voice 6: I'll pass it back to you, Chair,

[0:40:00] Voice 12: for any questions from the trustees before we hear from you.

[0:40:05] Trustee Middleton: One question is what continuation of the process, what feature of that continuation would we be triggering or entertaining transfer of the density of these lots?

[0:40:24] Trustee Middleton: Because are we being asked anything further beyond this DPA?

[0:40:29] Voice 6: Well, you're asked to, you will be asked for variance.

[0:40:32] Voice 6: So at some point they will have to come back to you.

[0:40:37] Voice 6: Gotcha.

[0:40:37] Voice 6: And it's a pretty, it's a boundary adjustment through MoE.

[0:40:43] Voice 6: So I'm not sure how much of the referral process is like versus the pain level where we're providing the referral response.

[0:40:51] Voice 6: laws. I'm not sure if it's that onerous with a boundary adjustment, but they

[0:40:56] Voice 6: couldn't build what they want without a variance. So the variance

[0:40:59] Voice 6: is the time to

[0:41:00] Voice 6: have that.

[0:41:01] Voice 6: So it was a variance and they might, they may offer that as a, as a

[0:41:07] Voice 6: care. I don't know, variances aren't really meant to be, unlike we're still

[0:41:11] Voice 6: only, you know, meant to be kind of seeking community amendments. It's not

[0:41:17] Voice 6: really the approach typically in the variance, but it can be considered in a

[0:41:21] Voice 6: way. Yeah,

[0:41:23] Voice 6: we're open to doing that. I just wanted to make sure

[0:41:27] Voice 6: that the consolidation happened first, so that they can

[0:41:30] Voice 6: consolidate the law, they're not left with one large law.

[0:41:35] Voice 6: Okay, or two laws with one.

[0:41:37] Voice 12: Yeah, I

[0:41:40] Trustee Maude: certainly will notice extensive biologics report.

[0:41:44] Trustee Maude: This is

[0:41:48] Trustee Maude: appreciating the information provided in this application.

[0:41:54] Trustee Maude: Thanks.

[0:41:57] Voice 5: Yeah, if everybody's finished in the room. Yeah, I assume. Yeah, I was really

[0:42:02] Voice 5: impressed by the report. It was kind of a pleasure to read. I learned a lot from it.

[0:42:10] Voice 5: I think acquiring another density into the density bank would be quite advantageous,

[0:42:16] Voice 5: given that you know in the fullness of time who knows when we might have opportunities to

[0:42:23] Voice 5: um create affordable housing options where extra densities could come in handy

[0:42:31] Voice 5: um i feel that i am in favor of this particular request because um it is the deck that will over

[0:42:44] Voice 5: over, you know, overrun. And the particular bluffs DPA and other areas, you know, where you're at risk of erosion and, you know, unconsolidated material, et cetera, et cetera.

[0:43:00] Voice 5: but this seems to be, or I know it, it is a hard rock.

[0:43:06] Voice 5: So in general, I'm in favour of facilitating this request

[0:43:13] Voice 5: and, you know, that the transfer of the density later,

[0:43:19] Voice 5: which will be discussed again, would be quite advantageous to us.

[0:43:24] Voice 5: I know it's not an either-or, but it's just a whole picture

[0:43:28] Voice 5: that I'm in favour of. Thanks.

[0:43:31] Trustee Maude: Thank you, Trustee Boland. So basically, if anyone wants to make a motion?

[0:43:38] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, because I think, basically, as

[0:43:41] Trustee Middleton: echoing Trustee Boland, it's the whole picture that we're obviously talking about here

[0:43:45] Trustee Middleton: leading up to the completed, very comprehensive

[0:43:49] Trustee Middleton: development proposal. And so on faith, we can certainly know that we'll be

[0:43:53] Trustee Middleton: interacting with the applicant and engaging in discussion around that

[0:43:57] Trustee Middleton: transfer of the unneeded density. But in the interim, to kick that

[0:44:01] Trustee Middleton: process off and allow them to begin a move that this to turn out of the trust for any

[0:44:06] Trustee Middleton: approbations for development permit application s a p l d p two zero two four zero two two nine

[0:44:13] Trustee Middleton: and they'll see second

[0:44:16] Trustee Maude: just evolved okay yes i

[0:44:20] Voice 5: second that okay

[0:44:22] Trustee Maude: so call the question all the

[0:44:23] Trustee Maude: All right thank you very much. Moving on to 14.1 with minor housing amendments project

[0:44:33] Trustee Maude: begins staff report and I believe we're handing it over to Clarence I think.

[0:44:39] Voice 12: Thank you Chair Mullin.

[0:44:43] Voice 6: So coming back to the local trust committee with a staff report in

[0:44:49] Voice 6: respect to your minor housing amendments projects. So the scope of that project was to update your

[0:44:57] Voice 6: cistern bylaw requirements to include the whole island as requiring cisterns with a new bill or

[0:45:07] Voice 6: major renovation, I think is what your wording states, and to review and update the schedule

[0:45:17] Voice 6: with respect to secondary suites and where they're allowed based which is based on underlying

[0:45:22] Voice 6: saltwater intrusion data from the province and you are also at the stage where last meeting

[0:45:30] Voice 6: had a community information and you were speaking more broadly about other approaches you could

[0:45:34] Voice 6: look at to enable more flexible housing options or multi-family residential

[0:45:43] Voice 6: residential units, various other means.

[0:45:49] Voice 6: So I think that would be opened up to discussion today.

[0:45:54] Voice 6: What staff are recommending today is we are proposing

[0:45:58] Voice 6: a by-law that just brings the cistern

[0:46:02] Voice 6: and secondary suite mapping changes forward.

[0:46:05] Voice 6: The purpose for that is that I think we've done enough work

[0:46:09] Voice 6: to at least bring a draft by-law forward

[0:46:10] Voice 6: for those two pieces,

[0:46:11] Voice 6: pieces, whereas the other pieces you still have some figuring out to do. It would also

[0:46:17] Voice 6: those two pieces would not require an OCP amendment so you could do them just as a land

[0:46:23] Voice 6: use bylaw amendment

[0:46:24] Voice 6: and they could proceed faster because they wouldn't require ministerial

[0:46:26] Voice 6: approval and potentially or a public hearing. And so there's a number of recommendations

[0:46:32] Voice 6: with respect to the draft bylaw that's being presented and staff are also suggesting that

[0:46:41] Voice 6: you schedule a community information meeting at your next business meeting to continue community

[0:46:46] Voice 6: dialogue with respect to the conversation around broader housing options so just talking about

[0:46:58] Voice 6: the work that's been done with respect to it's been a while since we had spoke about this so

[0:47:07] Voice 6: I spoke a little bit about your CIM I think it was well attended and there's a lot of good

[0:47:13] Voice 6: discussion of dialogue there a bit of a summary of the key themes that emerged from that uh we

[0:47:19] Voice 6: have a central first nations engagement letter two nations uh inviting them to uh

[0:47:28] Voice 6: engage in the project with the local trust committee and staff in the community we have

[0:47:33] Voice 6: not had any responses to that uh just with respect to the draft bylaw i spoke already

[0:47:40] Voice 6: to what that would tend to do. It would apply to any new residential building, visitor accommodation

[0:47:49] Voice 6: or addition to a residential building or visitor accommodation unit. It would require a water

[0:47:55] Voice 6: catchment system and cistern. Up to now it is only where Schedule C, which was essentially

[0:48:02] Voice 6: just only applying to East Point. So now you would require a cistern anywhere you're doing

[0:48:06] Voice 6: this on the island and the secondary suites map so the data that was used in the original mapping

[0:48:15] Voice 6: was provincial data and in 2021 the province has provided an updated data set and so the

[0:48:26] Voice 6: direction today to staff has been to review schedule e with the new mapping to see what

[0:48:36] Voice 6: properties would potentially now be enabled a secondary suite. So that's what we are in

[0:48:44] Voice 6: the process of doing. Mapping is working on that. We will come back with a list of actual

[0:48:49] Voice 6: properties that are affected and you can have some more. Choosing where you may want to

[0:48:57] Voice 6: preclude areas altogether. Staff, I think at this point, would recommend that you preclude

[0:49:01] Voice 6: East Point, including the Strata Corporation properties down by the

[0:49:06] Voice 6: winery, and potentially properties along, what was it called,

[0:49:17] Voice 12: there's a

[0:49:19] Voice 12: strip of properties

[0:49:20] Voice 6: along there where just a couple of

[0:49:21] Voice 6: properties become green now. What do you call them?

[0:49:26] Voice 7: So which one you're talking about, pre-cluded East Point and Centurion Beach?

[0:49:31] Voice 6: So the new mappings, a few properties, like so the mapping, if it's yellow,

[0:49:40] Voice 6: if it had any area of yellow on the map, it was pre-cluded previously.

[0:49:45] Voice 1: Oh, that's what pre-cluded is.

[0:49:47] Voice 6: Like yes, so you can't have a secondary suite. Now some of those properties have gone from

[0:49:52] Voice 6: from yellow or partially yellow and green

[0:49:55] Voice 6: to completely green.

[0:49:56] Voice 6: So in a sense, they would be,

[0:49:58] Voice 6: if you're using the new mapping data, including those,

[0:50:02] Voice 6: they would be opted back in.

[0:50:04] Voice 6: But if they're surrounded by all these other properties

[0:50:06] Voice 6: in East Point that are still not allowed

[0:50:09] Voice 6: in secondary Sweden, it's not a record.

[0:50:11] Voice 6: You don't create that one or two property.

[0:50:16] Voice 6: The data set is also really at high level,

[0:50:18] Voice 6: and I think that's some of the points that Janet has,

[0:50:22] Voice 1: is that the

[0:50:23] Voice 6: data that was used previously

[0:50:25] Voice 6: is at a more granular level.

[0:50:27] Voice 6: If you look at the map,

[0:50:28] Voice 6: you could see how much more blocky the provincial data is

[0:50:31] Voice 6: because they use a higher scale.

[0:50:33] Voice 6: So when you're talking about property by property,

[0:50:37] Voice 6: but that said, there could be some other properties

[0:50:40] Voice 6: along East Point Road, for example,

[0:50:42] Voice 6: where there's large catchments

[0:50:44] Voice 6: and probably enough water to allow,

[0:50:49] Voice 6: but that will all be brought back.

[0:50:51] Voice 6: But right now we're seeking direction

[0:50:53] Voice 6: uh to essentially drive the spotlight and i'll pass it back to you and sure i think that's all

[0:51:02] Voice 6: i really need so um if you have any questions trust committee

[0:51:07] Trustee Maude: members thank you trust people

[0:51:08] Trustee Maude: and she's unmuted and everything yeah

[0:51:12] Voice 5: ready to go um yeah thanks very much uh brad for putting this

[0:51:17] Voice 5: together i really appreciate it um i have quite a few comments about how we should proceed through

[0:51:25] Voice 5: the next steps. I think we should have a sort of a layered approach. So if I go back to the

[0:51:33] Voice 5: previous schedule there were two or three primary elements to the creation of that map. One was

[0:51:41] Voice 5: using the provincial saltwater intrusion risk maps and by the way as a heads up can we please

[0:51:51] Voice 5: please please always refer to the risk of salt water intrusion because frequently it's just

[0:51:57] Voice 5: referred to as aquifer vulnerability and i think it's really important to be specific about what

[0:52:05] Voice 5: that vulnerability is and but then the second thing so that was one thing was this of the risk

[0:52:12] Voice 5: of saltwater intrusion and I think the request from the province was to exclude certain categories.

[0:52:24] Voice 5: The second thing is that private systems such as the Group of 30 or Old Point Farm were excluded

[0:52:35] Voice 5: as being too risky and given that those water systems are well managed and indeed controlled

[0:52:44] Voice 5: i don't think they should be automatically excluded they may be but you know up for

[0:52:50] Voice 5: discussion is not excluding those because they can choose within their own strata controls

[0:52:58] Voice 5: controls to allow secondary suites yes or no so for instance that's saturn and beach

[0:53:04] Voice 5: and within the strata regulations they do not allow secondary suites and so yes we can exclude

[0:53:13] Voice 5: it on the basis that you know saltwater intrusion is a risk there but and if they were allowed on

[0:53:20] Voice 5: the map they would then make their own choice and so that's another one and and then of course we

[0:53:28] Voice 5: we went and said, well, anything on the CRD system is okay.

[0:53:33] Voice 5: So what I suggest is when I look at the items that we're going to use

[0:53:39] Voice 5: to build the draft bylaw,

[0:53:44] Voice 5: I would like to think that we would make a sort of a step-by-step approach.

[0:53:48] Voice 5: So the first thing is to adopt, let's say, the new saltwater intrusion maps

[0:53:57] Voice 5: and then consider those then move on to the okay you know with those new with those private waters

[0:54:06] Voice 5: provider systems we should really engage with them explicitly and explain what we are proposing

[0:54:14] Voice 5: so that they can be informed and you know alert you know their community and make their own

[0:54:24] Voice 5: decision about that and and then also um then we should look at indeed other aspects of water

[0:54:35] Voice 5: let's say vulnerability over and above salt water intrusion and with respect to that i thought

[0:54:43] Voice 5: it would be very helpful to um get a list of new applications uh development applications over the

[0:54:52] Voice 5: last say 20 or 30 years with in mind that those would have been some new wells not always but

[0:55:01] Voice 5: you know most people up until recently would have had to drill a well or have a well

[0:55:06] Voice 5: so new builds on the island we could look at that data and we should then over that period perhaps

[0:55:16] Voice 5: perhaps look at the observation wells, the record of the observation wells.

[0:55:21] Voice 5: And then we should also, I think, look at the costs of water collection tanks and imposing that as a requirement everywhere for, you know, a secondary suite or an ADU.

[0:55:42] Voice 5: So we need to look more granularly at those costs and see whether we should just blanket and apply them in the way that they were at East Point.

[0:55:53] Voice 5: And to be fair, it has worked at East Point and it was needed.

[0:55:58] Voice 5: So I just think we should look at it in a more granular way by doing a step by step approach.

[0:56:05] Voice 5: approach and um i would be very willing to be part of the um working group or to have you come

[0:56:18] Voice 5: to me and review those step-by-step elements and we should present them then a step-by-step rather

[0:56:25] Voice 5: than one big package um because i think i think um the devil will be in the detail and if we don't

[0:56:34] Voice 5: go into the detail we risk people throwing out the baby with the bath water or vice versa

[0:56:41] Voice 5: um so i've been thinking about this a bit because i read the proposal and i thought it's um it's a

[0:56:49] Voice 5: bit um you know on the face of it that's what we want to do of course but i think a step-by-step

[0:56:55] Voice 5: approach with each layer of the puzzle being considered and its interaction with the layers

[0:57:03] Voice 5: as it went before, would be really, really helpful.

[0:57:06] Voice 5: Okay, I'll stop.

[0:57:08] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:57:10] Voice 12: Is there anything you need to add?

[0:57:13] Trustee Middleton: Well, just in response to that,

[0:57:14] Trustee Middleton: and how does trustee Bowen envisage the recommendations

[0:57:20] presented

[0:57:20] Trustee Middleton: working with that layered approach?

[0:57:25] Trustee Middleton: Maybe I'm not getting something from her,

[0:57:27] Trustee Middleton: but the approach of the recommendations

[0:57:30] Trustee Middleton: nations seems to offer a set of activities that would happen simultaneously and is that in

[0:57:40] Trustee Middleton: is that it's something that trustee bullen is uh in favor of giving her comments there

[0:57:46] Trustee Middleton: i think

[0:57:49] Voice 5: that everything that's there i would like to look at and consider but for instance um

[0:57:56] Voice 5: And some of the, you know, ABCD, D is fine, revising the associated in consideration of.

[0:58:09] Voice 5: I would start with that. And, you know, I don't understand, to be honest, deleting the reference to areas having moderate to high aquifer vulnerability,

[0:58:19] Voice 5: Because we are going to continue to use the areas identified as moderate to high aquifer vulnerability.

[0:58:30] Voice 5: And then removing Schedule C East Point water management area and updating the water storage requirements for any new residential building.

[0:58:42] Voice 5: I don't think like until we look at the map and what that accomplishes, we shouldn't do B.

[0:58:52] Voice 5: B might need to be done at a more granular level. Does that make sense?

[0:58:56] Voice 5: Brad, can you answer me? Because I'm I don't know that I'm making complete sense,

[0:59:01] Voice 5: but it's that it's like we're going to do all of these together in parallel as one full swoop.

[0:59:09] Voice 5: And I think that the subsequent step could be influenced by the outcome of any step that we take first.

[0:59:20] Voice 6: So up to now, I think these recommendations follow the direction that the local trust committee has provided to staff.

[0:59:26] Voice 6: With respect to the cisterns, up to now, it's been clear that you wanted it to apply across the whole trust area.

[0:59:32] Voice 6: So that's why the wording is suggested.

[0:59:35] Voice 6: and removing the map because you don't need the map anymore because it applies to the local

[0:59:39] Voice 6: the whole local trust area. I am also a little bit confused with how you want to apply

[0:59:45] Voice 6: all the mapping data and observation well information to further inform that

[0:59:52] Voice 6: that consideration and with respect to removing the areas having water to high aquifer.

[1:00:00] Voice 6: vulnerability that's not the well it simplifies it by not having to say it but I think if I look at

[1:00:05] Voice 6: it actually it's totally accurate because that's not the only not the only reason that areas were

[1:00:14] Voice 6: completed if you look at the mappings uh yeah I mean if you want like staff are suggesting that

[1:00:24] Voice 6: we go and do more mapping and come back with a list of properties that are now in green versus

[1:00:31] Voice 6: of yellow, for example. But that's all we've been asked to do is swap the old map with the new map

[1:00:38] Voice 6: and identify those properties and then provide some recommendations around that new data and

[1:00:46] Voice 6: where we think you should or maybe should not be completely sweet. In my mind, for example,

[1:00:53] Voice 6: allowing one or two properties in East Point to, well, yeah, all those conversations around

[1:00:59] Voice 6: that's a whole another level of work that you're kind of proposing i'm not sure i'm following it

[1:01:06] Voice 6: based on where

[1:01:08] Voice 6: to date well

[1:01:10] Voice 5: so in the previous review and i'm not even sure if those stratas

[1:01:17] Voice 5: were engaged other than that they it was decided that they would be excluded

[1:01:26] Voice 5: And I'm not sure that was a valid thing to do.

[1:01:29] Voice 5: They're

[1:01:30] Voice 6: not excluded right now. It's only an easy point that it's excluded.

[1:01:34] Voice 5: No, from the secondary suites, they were excluded.

[1:01:41] Voice 5: It's in the descriptive text. I could find it for you.

[1:01:51] Voice 5: yeah so um i just think that we should do it's almost like doing scenarios and layering them

[1:01:59] Voice 5: to build the final picture with different recommendations and how many new wells are

[1:02:07] Voice 5: being used on the island is part of the information that we should have because a lot of people

[1:02:12] Voice 5: are using uh you know it's it's not a it's not a very clean database but the best we can do is do

[1:02:20] Voice 5: new applications to build because and most people then would have had would have an associated well

[1:02:27] Voice 5: although many people have a well because it was needed for proof of water but they are not using

[1:02:34] Voice 5: those wells and so it's a bit of a muddy picture but i just think if we don't have all this

[1:02:40] Voice 5: information together gathered when we have the community information meeting it will make life

[1:02:46] Voice 5: a little bit more difficult we know we can't have a well-informed discussion but i'd like to hear

[1:02:53] Voice 5: from other people that's just my approach to how we should prepare for the community information

[1:02:58] Voice 5: meeting yes ah

[1:03:03] Voice 8: thank you thank you um so in addition to my previous letter i would like to

[1:03:08] Voice 8: to read an email that was sent out by me on November 4th to the local trust committee

[1:03:17] Voice 8: with a copy to Jessica Doyle, who's the water protection head at the Ministry of Water,

[1:03:27] Voice 8: Land, Resorts Stewardship. So bear with me, it's a little long, I'm sorry. And for the

[1:03:35] Voice 8: purpose of the minute takers you will have that um these emails uh as a matter of records uh in

[1:03:44] Voice 8: an effort to allow secondary suites in most houses on saterna the island's trust is proposing the

[1:03:50] Voice 8: following changes to the current bylaw which prohibits secondary suites in areas of moderate

[1:03:55] Voice 8: to high aquifer vulnerability to saltwater intrusion simplify secondary suite provision

[1:04:02] Voice 8: provision 2.18.5 by deleting reference to areas having moderate to high aquifer vulnerability

[1:04:09] Voice 8: and revising the associated Schedule E secondary suites map in consideration of updated 2022

[1:04:17] Voice 8: provincial saltwater intrusion mapping. So the prohibition of secondary suites in areas of

[1:04:26] Voice 8: moderate to high aquifer vulnerability to saltwater intrusion in the current bylaw

[1:04:31] Voice 8: was put in at the direction of the ministry,

[1:04:35] Voice 8: who felt that it was imperative in order to protect

[1:04:38] Voice 8: groundwater resources on Saturna.

[1:04:41] Voice 8: It is also the mandate of the honest trust

[1:04:43] Voice 8: to preserve and protect groundwater.

[1:04:45] Voice 8: So the removal of this protection in order to allow

[1:04:50] Voice 8: secondary suites in all areas is very concerning.

[1:04:54] Voice 8: The proposal to replace the existing provincial

[1:04:56] Voice 8: saltwater intrusion maps with, quote,

[1:04:59] Voice 8: Quote, updated 2022 provincial intrusion mapping, end quote, implies that it is the province

[1:05:06] Voice 8: who has updated these maps to change what has historically been identified as an area

[1:05:12] Voice 8: of high risk of saltwater intrusion to now be considered at low to medium risk.

[1:05:17] Voice 8: However, it appears it is not the province who has updated their own maps, but rather

[1:05:23] Voice 8: the Island's Trust, who has done this ignoring the previous research and testing that has

[1:05:28] Voice 8: taken place at each point since 1985.

[1:05:31] Voice 6: Just to stop you there to clarify this provincial data.

[1:05:34] Voice 6: But

[1:05:35] Voice 8: let me just

[1:05:35] Voice 6: clarify that key point for you that the data set is we are receiving it from

[1:05:40] Voice 6: them we have not created the data set for them to we are using data that the province has endorsed

[1:05:49] Voice 6: as superseding the previous data that was used just to be clear.

[1:05:54] Voice 5: And can I just add to it Janet

[1:05:56] Voice 5: Janet, your opening sentence is not accurate.

[1:06:02] Voice 5: Did you

[1:06:02] Voice 8: read my thing before you made all your comments?

[1:06:06] Voice 8: I've

[1:06:07] Voice 5: read it, and you're reading out things

[1:06:09] Voice 5: which I think we already responded to you about.

[1:06:13] Voice 5: We are not proposing to allow secondary suites

[1:06:16] Voice 5: in almost all homes on Saturn Island.

[1:06:19] Voice 5: That was not the original premise that we began this project on.

[1:06:23] Voice 5: And as Brad said, the data that we are using has come from the province.

[1:06:29] Voice 5: You have said that it is not the province who has updated these maps.

[1:06:35] Voice 8: Please continue my presentation, because I do have a response from the province as part of that.

[1:06:43] Voice 8: Yes, and I still have a response.

[1:06:45] Voice 8: Are you

[1:06:48] Voice 5: going to make a presentation at the community meeting, or is this your presentation?

[1:06:53] Voice 5: Now?

[1:06:54] Voice 5: This is my presentation now.

[1:06:57] Voice 8: Okay.

[1:06:57] Voice 8: All right.

[1:06:58] Voice 8: Go ahead.

[1:06:59] Voice 8: Send me an email that will send.

[1:07:01] Voice 8: And I will send that.

[1:07:03] Voice 8: So we have these two maps.

[1:07:06] Voice 8: The contrast between the original mapping and the updated version is shocking.

[1:07:12] Voice 8: Gone are all the red dots on wells that have been tested and still have had salt water

[1:07:17] Voice 8: intrusion, including an inland well that has had four orders against it for continuing to pump

[1:07:23] Voice 8: saltwater over the last dozen years. Now almost the whole area is shown as moderate to moderately

[1:07:29] Voice 8: low risk of saltwater intrusion. Here are the maps. From what I understand, this map has been

[1:07:37] Voice 8: updated with no notification to the Ministry of Water, Lands, and Resource Stewardship,

[1:07:42] Voice 8: let alone consultation with them, nor has the ministry been sent the proposed bylaw changes

[1:07:48] Voice 8: for comment, although the proposal was sent to 15 first stations. Back in 2009 when the ministry

[1:07:55] Voice 8: tested well for East Point, testing required consent from well owners so not all wells were

[1:08:01] Voice 8: tested, but they documented the spread of saltwater intrusion from all the previous studies.

[1:08:07] Voice 8: At that time, Pat Lester, the Ministry Groundwater Specialist, and Dr. Diana Allen from SFU stated

[1:08:17] Voice 8: that when they spoke at international conferences, they used East Point out of all that we see,

[1:08:23] Voice 8: they used East Point as an example of an area most at risk of saltwater intrusion.

[1:08:28] Voice 8: I'm sure they would be shocked to see that the island stress is now presenting East Point

[1:08:32] Voice 8: as low to moderate risk in an attempt to allow secondary sweep.

[1:08:36] Voice 8: To my knowledge, there has been no independent testing of private wells at East Point since

[1:08:43] Voice 8: 2009 to determine the current extent of saltwater intrusion in the wells there.

[1:08:49] Voice 8: There is now the suggestion that the requirement of new houses or those with major additions

[1:08:56] Voice 8: to rainwater catchment has and would alleviate the risk of saltwater intrusion.

[1:09:03] Voice 8: But the risk because of topography and current overdevelopment has not changed.

[1:09:08] Voice 8: The only way to determine what effect the requirement for rainwater catchment has had

[1:09:12] Voice 8: and might have in other areas would be to test the wells again and track the change

[1:09:17] Voice 8: in the incidence of saltwater intrusion.

[1:09:22] Voice 8: Each point would be a good test case and would add to decades of previous research.

[1:09:26] Voice 8: That being said, even if a well is no longer salty with regular domestic use, one could

[1:09:32] Voice 8: not assume that that well would now support the doubling of consumption that would come

[1:09:37] Voice 8: in the secondary suite. While my comments have been specifically about East Point,

[1:09:43] Voice 8: they apply to other areas of Saturna as well, although these areas have not been

[1:09:47] Voice 8: studied as extensively. Before the trust proceeds any further with this proposed

[1:09:52] Voice 8: by-law change, it is imperative to confirm true risks of saltwater intrusion with the

[1:09:57] Voice 8: Ministry who are the experts in this field and who produced the original saltwater

[1:10:02] Voice 8: intrusion maps that have now been dramatically changed. The ministry should also be consulted

[1:10:09] Voice 8: on the overall proposal as to the potential impact of secondary suites on groundwater in

[1:10:14] Voice 8: all sensitive areas. As I said, I sent a copy of this to the ministry, to Jessica Doyle,

[1:10:26] Voice 8: I believe she is the water protection head of the ministry, and her response came back which was also copied to the local trustees.

[1:10:39] Voice 8: I want to let you know that we are working on better understanding the saltwater intrusion situation across the islands.

[1:10:46] Voice 8: And then we recognize the newest mapping was high level risk mapping completed by a contractor who took a province wide approach.

[1:10:54] Voice 8: It did not capture actual conditions or take known saltwater intrusion issues into account.

[1:11:01] Voice 8: We do hope to update and improve in coming years if we have the capacity to do so.

[1:11:06] Voice 8: That said, due caution is advised to increase groundwater use, both increasing volume from

[1:11:13] Voice 8: existing wells and adding new wells along the coast or peninsula of the islands, as

[1:11:19] Voice 8: these areas are at most at risk of seawater intrusion.

[1:11:22] Voice 8: with sea level rise drought and increased development overall across the islands

[1:11:27] Voice 8: the risk is only going to increase and we are wearing the war areas on other islands

[1:11:31] Voice 8: that are being impacted if you would like to meet to discuss some of the local issues

[1:11:37] Voice 8: um areas uh on saturn or other islands please let me know thank

[1:11:46] Voice 13: you any questions

[1:11:51] Trustee Maude: So,

[1:11:54] Voice 5: Janet, thank you for your presentation. I've been copied on these emails. In fact,

[1:12:00] Voice 5: I initiated conversations with Jessica Doyle in the last year or so and asked for clarification

[1:12:09] Voice 5: on some of the information. I think your presentation is factually incorrect with respect to saying

[1:12:18] Voice 5: that the Ireland's Trust has embarked on updating the maps themselves. Those maps were updated by

[1:12:24] Voice 5: the people who created them in the first instance. And I think, you know, if you doubt that,

[1:12:32] Voice 5: then I don't know how to persuade you. Do you understand that it's the same people

[1:12:37] Voice 5: who updated the maps as created them initially? Is that clear to you now?

[1:12:51] Voice 8: I

[1:12:52] Voice 6: sent you the link to the 2021 report and tried to send you the PDF. It was huge. So I sent you

[1:13:00] Voice 6: two parts. That is the report that the map on the page of the staff report adjacent to the

[1:13:08] Voice 6: 2017 map, the map is from the

[1:13:11] Voice 6: provincial report. This more clustery data

[1:13:15] Voice 6: field map is from the

[1:13:17] Voice 6: province. So the province's analysis

[1:13:19] Voice 6: has shifted some of those parcels from a higher

[1:13:24] Voice 6: risk to a lower risk. And we are simply seeking to

[1:13:27] Voice 6: burn up. I mean, we're talking about other parts, but part of what the

[1:13:32] Voice 6: mapping update would be, would be using that new updated

[1:13:36] Voice 6: data set. So you're

[1:13:37] Voice 6: recognizing it has some flaws as well. Are you saying

[1:13:40] Voice 8: that this map

[1:13:41] Voice 8: is a provincial map? Yes. Yes.

[1:13:47] Voice 5: It's 2021. There's a report.

[1:13:51] Voice 8: Well, you can't see this

[1:13:52] Voice 8: story, but it's the one that was produced in the...

[1:13:56] Voice 6: It's a zoom in of the provincial

[1:14:02] Voice 6: And

[1:14:02] Voice 8: the provincial map that we've been working on, with all the red dots, is that one?

[1:14:08] Voice 6: That is from 2017.

[1:14:10] Voice 8: That's from, I think, 2000. Well, they would have used that data with the last testing. It was in 2009.

[1:14:22] Voice 8: No,

[1:14:23] Voice 5: you're mixing up two different activities, Janet. In 2009, there was a study of East Point, only East Point, with respect to saltwater intrusion. That is correct. And they analysed many wells.

[1:14:38] Voice 5: In 2015, I believe, Classen and Diane Allen and others created a saltwater intrusion map.

[1:14:48] Voice 5: That map has since been updated.

[1:14:51] Voice 5: And if you look at East Point, I don't believe that the exclusion of East Point has changed

[1:14:57] Voice 5: changed because the ministry advised that high, medium, high, I think, and medium or moderately

[1:15:06] Voice 5: high and moderate risk, which was, I think, yellow, brown, red, would be excluded. If you look at East

[1:15:14] Voice 5: Point, the situation really hasn't changed. It still falls within the categories that the province

[1:15:21] Voice 5: asked Saturna to exclude. If you look more generally across the island, the risk of salt

[1:15:30] Voice 5: water intrusion as you go inland from the coast is reduced and it affects other areas. I don't

[1:15:39] Voice 5: believe that the update to the maps affects East Point. However, I just want to emphasise

[1:15:47] Voice 5: that the alice trust has not created this map the last time they used the provincial map this time

[1:15:55] Voice 5: they are using we are using the the updated provincial map and you know um jessica doyle

[1:16:05] Voice 5: who responded she is at the heart of flinrod or whatever they call themselves now they're the

[1:16:12] Voice 5: the equivalent of Pat Leprovich, you know, new people.

[1:16:19] Voice 5: But it's the exact same organization, the exact same data,

[1:16:22] Voice 5: the same people, they have updated the maps.

[1:16:26] Voice 5: The same categories of exclusion apply.

[1:16:30] Voice 5: The need to be cautious.

[1:16:33] Voice 5: Look at, they have a flyer which gives advice on avoiding saltwater intrusion.

[1:16:40] Voice 5: you know don't drill a well that's actually they mentioned closer than 50 feet to the coast I think

[1:16:46] Voice 5: which to me seems a little close um but anyway they have specific advice on how to avoid it

[1:16:53] Voice 5: they have updated the maps and that is the information that we are using and we didn't

[1:17:01] Voice 5: set out to allow secondary suites across the whole of Saterna um you know it was really

[1:17:07] Voice 5: really, let's update the map and consider the matter again. That's all. Thank you.

[1:17:14] Voice 6: So just a couple of key. We have sent a letter to First Nations, an early engagement letter

[1:17:20] Voice 6: on their broader project with the scope of being all of these things we're talking about

[1:17:25] Voice 6: today. So that is

[1:17:26] Voice 6: all that has been sent to First Nations, seeking direction to draft

[1:17:30] Voice 6: a draft bylaw that would still have to go through first, second readings and more work can be done

[1:17:39] Voice 6: to consider all of these things that we're talking about with mapping. And that draft bylaw would be

[1:17:45] Voice 6: sent to the Ministry, would be sent to the Water Branch for comment. If, for example, the LCC was

[1:17:54] Voice 6: is trying to include East Point now entirely, that was where the province could potentially

[1:18:01] Voice 6: provide that. But the LTC is not wanting to do that and staff are recommending that,

[1:18:06] Voice 6: for example, East Point still remain an area that is completely devoid of secondary suites.

[1:18:14] Voice 6: Even if a couple of the parcels there now are in the moderate category or in the moderately low

[1:18:19] Voice 6: category that would allow a secondary suite if you only use that data consideration of

[1:18:27] Voice 6: saltwater intrusion as stated in the bylaw and that's why staff are recommending you remove that

[1:18:31] Voice 6: because the considerations for that map are broader than just the saltwater intrusion data

[1:18:38] Voice 6: it's also you can consider perhaps fairness or equity amongst the community or for other data or

[1:18:45] Voice 6: or I think a whole that helps to clarify

[1:18:51] Voice 6: a bunch of your concerns today.

[1:18:53] Voice 8: I do think that back in July,

[1:18:55] Voice 8: we're suggested that the ministry be included

[1:18:58] Voice 8: in these discussions.

[1:18:59] Voice 8: And I would like to ask that again,

[1:19:01] Voice 8: because I'm confused in my mind

[1:19:04] Voice 8: and I think that people are gonna make decisions

[1:19:08] Voice 8: because anything I've ever seen from the ministry,

[1:19:12] Voice 8: the most recent one came out in 2023

[1:19:15] Voice 8: 23 was the guidelines for well use in various areas and how important it was to look at

[1:19:27] Voice 8: your saltwater intrusion.

[1:19:28] Voice 8: And in two places there, they mentioned that East Blank was a high risk.

[1:19:33] Voice 8: And so to come up with a map like this that

[1:19:36] Voice 6: shows...

[1:19:37] Voice 6: That's the provincial map, to be clear, again.

[1:19:40] Voice 8: Well, that's what you're saying.

[1:19:41] Voice 8: That's

[1:19:42] Voice 6: what I'm saying because it's a fact.

[1:19:43] Voice 6: It's a fact.

[1:19:45] Voice 6: It's cut and pasted from the provincial report with the link that I've sent you already.

[1:19:51] Voice 11: And I have a problem here because the ministry has been informed that that's not the map we're using.

[1:19:57] Voice 11: So we identified in the ministry that we're doing something totally erroneous when we're not.

[1:20:02] Voice 11: It's a real problem.

[1:20:04] Voice 11: So we spent about 15 minutes in this meeting.

[1:20:06] Voice 11: There's a number of things that are incorrect in the original response in July.

[1:20:11] Voice 11: why and so there's a problem in these public sessions when we're being provided inaccurate

[1:20:19] Voice 11: information okay we've identified that and we just need to get on and

[1:20:31] Voice 5: can i just finish one last

[1:20:33] Voice 5: thing so the you know jessica has responded and indicated willingness to talk to us and she will

[1:20:41] Voice 5: be involved or they as an organization will be and I certainly sent them an email asking for more

[1:20:50] Voice 5: information and clarifying what our intentions were, the context in which I was asking for the

[1:20:58] Voice 5: information, information about any new wells that have been registered, information about

[1:21:05] Voice 5: um you know what the basis is for the water use estimate which is pretty high

[1:21:12] Voice 5: and so that we could consider those that information and those risks more fully so

[1:21:19] Voice 5: they are involved and they will continue to be involved okay thanks

[1:21:28] Voice 10: One is, I realize that I'm old and I'm very impaired, but I do wear hearing aids.

[1:21:37] Voice 10: The feedback from this system that Aretha's on is totally hopeless. I have gotten maybe 10%

[1:21:45] Voice 10: of what she has been putting forward through the system, so I don't know whether there are

[1:21:51] Voice 10: on back-facing microphones or what the problem is, but it seems to me that today's technology

[1:21:57] Voice 10: should be able to improve the scenario where trustees are absent from the meeting and

[1:22:06] Voice 10: use this process because it's very, very difficult for those of us that don't hear it as well as we

[1:22:12] Voice 10: want to see it. Other comment. I'm not sure what I heard earlier is really requirement at the time

[1:22:25] Voice 10: of the permit application. Now we suggest that water catchment will be a requirement

[1:22:34] Voice 10: throughout the island or is this only applicable to secondary suites?

[1:22:38] Voice 6: would be applicable to all new builds on the island so now it's only applicable at this point

[1:22:47] Voice 6: and where the schedule shows the proposal is to uh say anywhere you're building a new house for

[1:22:54] Voice 6: example on saturn island you need a cistern as part of your building when we review all the

[1:23:01] Voice 6: conditions around building permit approval setbacks building height we would also be

[1:23:05] Voice 6: looking for a sister in our own plans as we would on east point right now

[1:23:08] Voice 10: okay so that's what i

[1:23:09] Voice 10: thought i heard i wasn't certain all that is clarified yeah uh so what i suggest then is that

[1:23:17] Voice 10: the islanders trust put maximum effort into convincing the recruiting officer and the health

[1:23:26] Voice 10: people that uh new lot subdivisions should be approved on the basis of rainwater catchment

[1:23:34] Voice 10: because if you're going to demand it after the fact when you apply for a building permit it is

[1:23:40] Voice 10: ludicrous to suggest that you have to go well first and then put in a capital system because

[1:23:47] Voice 10: you double at least you double the cost of the client who wants to build a new house and god

[1:23:55] Voice 10: knows it's tough enough now to get anybody that can afford to build a house in the gulf islands

[1:24:01] Voice 10: but we're anywhere else in the province for that matter.

[1:24:04] Voice 10: So I really have a huge problem with,

[1:24:10] Voice 10: you know, changing it without,

[1:24:15] Voice 10: I think I can say the Islands Trust demanding

[1:24:19] Voice 10: that in the trust area, at least in those islands

[1:24:22] Voice 10: that whose local trust committee has approved it,

[1:24:26] Voice 10: that new laws be allowed to be created

[1:24:30] Voice 10: on the process of water catchment and an aside remark uh it seems to me that if there are going

[1:24:39] Voice 10: to be any secondary streets at east point um and i'm not entirely sure i'm really not much in favor

[1:24:45] Voice 10: of that because of the high density already at east point but if that were to happen it seems

[1:24:51] Voice 10: to me the easiest purpose way to fix it would be doing a notation in the bylaw that were lots of

[1:24:58] Voice 10: consolidated a secondary suite could be uh i'm giving in those you're not taking that

[1:25:07] Voice 10: this and putting it into a bank or doing anything with it but if you put two bots in one you could

[1:25:13] Voice 10: have secondary suites and whatever you did there just to go

[1:25:17] Voice 11: there's a resolution i already said

[1:25:20] Voice 11: that's all well standing resolution on what the water is so i know there is but but

[1:25:26] Voice 10: i've been told

[1:25:26] Voice 10: by health as my occupation was not even gone to the um approving officer yet i don't know

[1:25:33] Voice 10: whose desk it's on but health is saying well this isn't going to work no you're saying this probably

[1:25:40] Voice 10: isn't going to work and so it seems that it hasn't filtered down to the level that is required for

[1:25:50] Voice 10: to

[1:25:51] Voice 6: clarify through the chair the understanding resolution it's not a bylaw regulation the

[1:25:56] Voice 6: local trust committee could consider adopting water development regulations with respect to

[1:26:05] Voice 6: water supply currently the land use pilot is silent on water storage and so that's why

[1:26:11] Voice 6: it converts to the ministry to make the decision on what so if there was in this eternal island

[1:26:18] Voice 6: land use bylaw provision that says uh uh lots are william shoulders done a whole bunch of work

[1:26:26] Voice 6: with kind of draft language but up to that local trust committee is not paying their mind to that

[1:26:31] Voice 6: and so that's why the ministry is left uh determining water uh requirements on their own

[1:26:39] Voice 6: or or it is their it is their uh responsibility so sure

[1:26:45] Trustee Middleton: i think i think that's exactly what we're

[1:26:47] Trustee Middleton: We're attempting, I mean, I understand there's a lot of moving parts and we're sort of coming

[1:26:53] Trustee Middleton: at this in different ways and it's hard to get a global understanding on what's being

[1:26:57] Trustee Middleton: proposed here, but I think at heart of increasing sustainable options for housing is that the

[1:27:05] Trustee Middleton: local trust committee dictate or set a standard for quantity and quality of water and that

[1:27:12] Trustee Middleton: we use for purposes of subdivision.

[1:27:14] Trustee Middleton: we talked about that for years, Brad's made progress with us in terms of

[1:27:18] Trustee Middleton: he's talked about the idea that the ministry would respect

[1:27:22] Trustee Middleton: I mean, we'll be trying to do it, but

[1:27:25] Trustee Middleton: would respect the fact that there are local standards about

[1:27:29] Trustee Middleton: the provision of water catchment as a legitimate

[1:27:33] Trustee Middleton: source of potable water for purposes of subdivision or secondary

[1:27:37] Trustee Middleton: streets or wherever we go with that. And so I would say

[1:27:41] Trustee Middleton: say it's the priority. I mean, the mapping from the stand study of the mapping, I'm not,

[1:27:48] Trustee Middleton: I don't know if it's tripping us up, but what actually really would be the most beneficial

[1:27:52] Trustee Middleton: to us here is to say, let's get a standard for quantity and quality of water and shred

[1:28:01] Trustee Middleton: it in our bylaws and push that as basically proof of the potable water for subdivision

[1:28:10] Trustee Middleton: or any other purpose be it a secondary suite in a zone where it's allowed but there's a risk of

[1:28:16] Trustee Middleton: saltwater intrusion then obviously the standard of right water catchment needs to then apply them

[1:28:21] Trustee Middleton: it will be useful in many areas it will be useful for water districts who say um you know the crd

[1:28:29] Trustee Middleton: water district for instance now i'm not arguing about density but um if somebody wants a secondary

[1:28:35] Trustee Middleton: But the water district says, you know what, we're maxed out. Fair enough. We now have a set of standards for you to capture and store and treat rainwater so that you're not burdening the water district.

[1:28:49] Trustee Middleton: So it opens up options, housing options, but we have to do that first. And I think, honestly, it's in here. It's just not totally clear that that, I mean, maybe I'm misreading it.

[1:29:02] Trustee Middleton: know it'll be a fault here but that this is one of the first steps we need to take in terms of

[1:29:08] Trustee Middleton: unthreading this uh you know then the provinces if there are as i think the plan has been said

[1:29:15] Trustee Middleton: there are obviously still issues of uh moderate ground risk of gravel aquifer contamination or

[1:29:22] Trustee Middleton: salt water intrusion into into wells um we're not needing to argue that point either way we

[1:29:30] Trustee Middleton: we respect and accept that certainly at this point but what we're talking about we know

[1:29:36] Trustee Middleton: the technology and the science exists to allow us to capture rainwater to provide it

[1:29:44] Trustee Middleton: for human consumption in a sustainable ongoing manner for for for domestic use and i think we

[1:29:52] Trustee Middleton: need you know we previously been told that remember paul and i we previously been told

[1:29:57] Trustee Middleton: that that wouldn't be accepted. We could do all that.

[1:30:00] Trustee Middleton: you know we're just dreaming if we think we could actually uh after walkerton if we could actually

[1:30:05] Trustee Middleton: come up with a local standard for a program for for quantity and quality of water well

[1:30:11] Trustee Middleton: that's you know in part to the work of plan smith and maybe our freshwater specialist from the

[1:30:16] Trustee Middleton: background we're now learning that that is possibly or that the winds have shifted and if we

[1:30:22] Trustee Middleton: came up with a local standard it would be respected so i'm saying that out of this work this is the

[1:30:29] Trustee Middleton: foundational piece that we should focus on first. I don't know how we would work that through the

[1:30:34] Trustee Middleton: recommendations or Banerjee-Smith may say well yes but of course that is in there that's

[1:30:38] Trustee Middleton: that's what we've drafted fair enough but I just wanted to be clear in the public forum that I

[1:30:44] Trustee Middleton: think that's step one.

[1:30:46] Voice 6: This is a different conversation we're having now we're now

[1:30:49] Voice 6: we're talking about public water standards in your development regulations uh that's different than

[1:30:56] Voice 6: It

[1:30:57] Trustee Middleton: is in here though, like where you've got report summary, you talk about that, right?

[1:31:02] Trustee Middleton: Like you're talking about that creating standards, relying on the local trust area would have

[1:31:08] Trustee Middleton: system capacity and the quality would be defined.

[1:31:13] Trustee Middleton: Maybe that's where the confusion is.

[1:31:17] Trustee Middleton: It's under report summary on page 63, you say where the bullet points, the recognition

[1:31:28] Trustee Middleton: and above is supported as establishing water storage requirements.

[1:31:31] Voice 6: So there's water storage requirements,

[1:31:33] Voice 6: but that is only right now within your project scope.

[1:31:40] Voice 6: If you need a building permit, you require a cistern.

[1:31:43] Voice 6: It is not if you are creating a new lot,

[1:31:47] Voice 6: you can use a cistern.

[1:31:51] Voice 6: That's quite different.

[1:31:53] Voice 6: And I'm cautious, like North Pender has this clear provision.

[1:31:58] Voice 6: This is the new bylaw development and I don't know exactly if the direction came, I'm guessing

[1:32:04] Voice 6: partly from Williams, our senior freshwater hydrologist, who's hesitant that we can actually

[1:32:09] Voice 6: create those standards.

[1:32:10] Voice 6: It's clear that the province is hesitant to allow those standards to be applied because

[1:32:15] Voice 6: it is, like what happens if rainwater catchment isn't feasible and they don't get enough water,

[1:32:20] Voice 6: then you are up with a lot without water.

[1:32:23] Voice 6: water. So that's the risk of industry ways. And that's the

[1:32:27] Voice 6: risk that our bios would need to as well. It's all right, we can

[1:32:32] Voice 6: put it but that's a much bigger conversation than saying you

[1:32:36] Voice 6: need a sister and when you apply for a building permit, not only

[1:32:40] Voice 6: in East Point, but everywhere. Same. Now that like right now,

[1:32:45] Voice 6: you don't have any. So the new groundwater regulations in the

[1:32:50] Voice 6: the North Ender by-law are two and a half pages long.

[1:32:56] Voice 6: So there's a lot of work, a lot of,

[1:32:59] Voice 6: like you could adjust your project scope

[1:33:02] Voice 6: to turn your mind to water standards,

[1:33:05] Voice 6: but that's getting, that's, I guess, a housing profile.

[1:33:11] Voice 6: But that's different than where you are now,

[1:33:14] Voice 6: if that's clear, does that make sense to you?

[1:33:16] Voice 6: and

[1:33:16] Trustee Middleton: yeah i i do understand that i'll have further comments but we've got um i think

[1:33:23] Trustee Middleton: over to you jeff for traffic control traffic control

[1:33:27] Trustee Maude: but trust me more with this one

[1:33:28] Trustee Maude: so um

[1:33:32] Voice 5: yes i understand that brad but we do have a resolution which is fairly straightforward and

[1:33:39] Voice 5: simple which is that um you know water catchment can or may be used can i'm not quite sure which

[1:33:48] Voice 5: which verb is appropriate as proof of water um and john has run into resistance to that

[1:33:57] Voice 5: and we wrote a letter in support and so step one could we uh revisit whoever that letter went to

[1:34:06] Voice 5: and ask them to respond and step two like I agree there's a lot more work you know to address what

[1:34:15] Voice 5: Lee brought up but if we are updating the bylaw absorbing that standing resolution into the bylaw

[1:34:24] Voice 5: which is just making that statement simply as it is and might be something we could consider

[1:34:32] Voice 5: And then we could go further. But just right now, turning that standing resolution into a part of the bylaw might get us somewhere along that path.

[1:34:44] Voice 5: But I mean, let's I don't know if we should continue discussing this right now.

[1:34:49] Voice 5: but as Lee said, it is kind of fundamental. My only concern is that there are places where,

[1:34:57] Voice 5: you know, installing two gigantic tanks and or the cost of them might make or break a proposal to

[1:35:10] Voice 5: go forward with the secondary suite. So I'm reluctant to apply it as a giant blanket

[1:35:17] Voice 5: it until we've looked at um the maps i mean it could be that the maps you know create areas that

[1:35:25] Voice 5: are naturally able to support um you know the water requirements of additional um people so

[1:35:37] Voice 5: that's where i'm coming from i just want to almost see like a scenarios layered on top of each other

[1:35:45] Voice 5: I'm not explaining it very well. It's clear in my mind what I want, but I don't seem to be getting it across very well.

[1:35:55] Trustee Maude: Yeah, I

[1:35:56] Voice 11: think we've gone down a rabbit hole because we're seeing how well we have in place

[1:36:03] Voice 11: compared to what I think I've heard staff report that this is a resolution and that

[1:36:13] Voice 11: part of it contemplates East Point being totally excluded from water and we have a big presentation

[1:36:24] Voice 11: I'm actually convinced you guys know I do, and I would even go further to say that if

[1:36:31] Voice 11: East Point combined two properties together, still wouldn't qualify for any other reason

[1:36:40] Voice 11: than exclusion for secondary suites.

[1:36:42] Voice 11: But I think the focus from a whole pile of us has been that brush painted the whole line

[1:36:49] Voice 11: and gave no flexibility and i think staff is trying to bring us forward so that at least

[1:36:57] Voice 11: in every effort reasonable we can start to develop a position thank you

[1:37:07] Voice 13: i

[1:37:08] Voice 7: uh the reason for the minor limits to the housing project is to

[1:37:21] Voice 7: to increase the possibility of secondary suites.

[1:37:24] Voice 7: That's the thrust of the effort, is that correct?

[1:37:29] Voice 7: Is that correct?

[1:37:31] Voice 7: That's the thrust of the effort, okay.

[1:37:33] Voice 7: And I certainly appreciate these discussions on water

[1:37:38] Voice 7: since we're experiencing climate change

[1:37:42] Voice 7: at an accelerating pace as far as I'm concerned.

[1:37:48] Voice 7: And the threat of that seems to be really clear.

[1:37:53] Voice 7: So when we get into water, that seems to be the basis

[1:38:00] Voice 7: for establishing either a secondary suite

[1:38:04] Voice 7: or some sort of cottage development.

[1:38:09] Voice 7: Is that correct?

[1:38:11] Voice 7: That's what you're gunning for.

[1:38:13] Voice 7: That's what the purpose of all of this stuff is, right?

[1:38:15] Voice 7: Right. Right. Okay. So, um, it's, it seems to me that, uh, Paul's comment in this, in

[1:38:28] Voice 7: the scribbler was about trailers and stuff. And one of the reasons why I'm interested

[1:38:35] Voice 7: in having community, um, advisory plan community meetings is to understand what's really feasible.

[1:38:43] Voice 7: Now, John builds high-end, really expensive houses, and very few of those people want

[1:38:49] Voice 7: to put secondary suites in them, as far as I can tell, in my experience.

[1:38:53] Voice 7: It's not that that happens.

[1:38:54] Voice 7: That will never happen, or it doesn't seem to happen, on high-end properties, either

[1:38:59] Voice 7: at East Point, Old Point Farm, or all of the new places where people arrive here with a

[1:39:07] Voice 7: million, a few million dollars, buy their $500,000 lot, and build their $3,000 home

[1:39:13] Voice 7: on them.

[1:39:13] Voice 7: they don't seem to go for um secondary suites and uh paul's suggestion i think we need to look at

[1:39:24] Voice 7: who we want to house here some of the older homes you know we have places in the valley

[1:39:30] Voice 7: i can't remember what the uh the casual name for lyle harbor is but that's where we seem to have

[1:39:36] Voice 7: most of our young people stay who are here and are sort of building up to maybe they'll stay and get

[1:39:42] Voice 7: house. I don't see it in new builds. I don't see it in people having the money to install

[1:39:52] Voice 7: an expensive secondary suite of the magnitude that I think people are thinking of. So trailers

[1:40:00] Voice 7: for sale of rare gas all seems to be disgusting. It seems to be where the need might be fulfilled

[1:40:09] Voice 7: build of what we're looking for, or what, you know, the small amount of people who come

[1:40:15] Voice 7: here and want to kick their body and wants to turn it. So I think this is all really

[1:40:19] Voice 7: important. I don't want to see us running out of the water. I think, for me, I have

[1:40:27] Voice 7: some ecological ideas, like how many of those frigging giant green tanks do you want to

[1:40:31] Voice 7: put all over a lot for coverage to store water, if you're going to go that way? A slight

[1:40:39] Voice 7: My question is, can you drink water out of rooftop catchments at this point?

[1:40:45] Voice 7: We can't use it for drinking water.

[1:40:50] Voice 11: Well, we have trucks

[1:40:53] Voice 7: coming on in the summer.

[1:40:55] Voice 7: We're taking somebody else's brave water.

[1:40:58] Voice 7: That's what we're saying.

[1:40:58] Voice 7: We're not drinking.

[1:41:02] Voice 7: I believe

[1:41:03] Voice 10: it works to be any of that.

[1:41:04] Voice 7: But at least

[1:41:05] Voice 7: that's a really practical way.

[1:41:06] Voice 7: and this is what you want to do is increase housing for people who don't arrive here with

[1:41:12] Voice 7: three million dollars um is this the way they go about um maybe the trailer idea you know what can

[1:41:21] Voice 7: people really afford what can builders really afford to to put in and

[1:41:26] Voice 7: what's really happening

[1:41:28] Voice 7: is there any quality support for secondary suites for people none of those people want to rent their

[1:41:34] Voice 7: places to young people who are here you have a trailer where you have a young family right but

[1:41:42] Voice 7: nobody's going to take a three million dollar home and say would you like to rent this so my point is

[1:41:48] Voice 7: is this is this getting where you want feasibly in terms of today's economics

[1:41:59] Voice 13: I

[1:42:01] Voice 5: think we need to address all options and you know secondary suites is one there's another part

[1:42:11] Voice 5: to the proposed minor amendments which is to reduce the restriction on the multi-family

[1:42:19] Voice 5: residential zoning so that it's not so restrictive. In either case, any kind of

[1:42:27] Voice 5: increase in density would require addressing water supply issues. So anything we do right now

[1:42:37] Voice 5: to look at those, updating the information about water will have a knock-on benefit into any

[1:42:45] Voice 5: changes we propose it is all interlinked and it's very difficult to you know you start to pull a

[1:42:51] Voice 5: thread and the next thing you know you've got you know giant balls of wool all over the place

[1:42:57] Voice 5: but um we just have to start somewhere there is a need for some um increased amount of

[1:43:07] Voice 5: to some degree affordable housing it's small you know i don't i don't imagine that we're suddenly

[1:43:15] Voice 5: going to get you know another 50 units if we got 10 units that might be good and so we just have to

[1:43:23] Voice 5: move forward step by step and you know not close our minds to any possibilities until we

[1:43:32] Voice 5: examine them all and work through them and that's the best I can offer I just

[1:43:40] Voice 5: feel that we need to have this discussion okay there's

[1:43:45] Voice 11: a couple of things on the secondary suite

[1:43:47] Voice 11: uh front so the province back in april began their program and they'll give up to forty thousand

[1:43:54] Voice 11: dollars uh for development of the secondary suite um as long as people are willing to rent it out

[1:44:01] Voice 11: out for five years at some market rates, and then it converts to a secondary suite without

[1:44:14] Voice 11: restriction in terms of rental.

[1:44:18] Voice 7: Oh I see,

[1:44:19] Voice 7: so for five years we must start below market.

[1:44:23] Voice 11: Below market, so that's the incentive to build, and secondary suites are not easy to build.

[1:44:28] Voice 11: Well, CRD has a program that we've approved a million dollars over the next two years

[1:44:34] Voice 11: to incent various types of housing, and one of those is secondary suite.

[1:44:42] Voice 11: So we're designing our program to be stackable with the provincial program.

[1:44:48] Voice 11: So if you get $40,000 from the province, you get $40,000 from CRD under the same terms.

[1:44:54] Voice 11: So at $80,000, it starts to at least make sense.

[1:44:58] Voice 11: Now, we don't expect a lot of take-up.

[1:45:00] Voice 11: But from my perspective, you know, if we got a secondary sweep on Saturna, I'd be delighted.

[1:45:07] Voice 11: Wow.

[1:45:08] Voice 11: Or two, we're not talking big numbers.

[1:45:10] Voice 11: And what we often find is that when we talk about these programs, people will come and say, you're going to go to Saturna pretty soon.

[1:45:18] Voice 11: There's going to be, you know, another 600 or 800 families there.

[1:45:22] Voice 11: It's not going to happen.

[1:45:24] Voice 11: Right. These are just tiny, tiny increments, but we haven't been making any progress really over the past 20 years in terms of affordable housing in my opinion on our islands.

[1:45:35] Voice 11: Now, I've seen, we've seen them decline with the market forces. I've seen BC Housing pull up supports on existing housing right now.

[1:45:44] Voice 11: So, and around that seven affordable housing units supported by BC Housing, they have four left.

[1:45:53] Voice 11: and those all disappear in health 28 and that will be dead for the pandemic like three thousand

[1:45:58] Voice 11: people they

[1:45:58] Voice 8: have four of them so they had seven and now we have four country

[1:46:02] Voice 11: court had seven

[1:46:03] Voice 11: but under the current guidelines if somebody leaves one of those units it goes to market-based

[1:46:10] Voice 11: trends and whether they leave or not in 2028 they're all market-based trends

[1:46:19] Voice 11: that's that's a totally different program in the bc housing but we got a crisis and

[1:46:24] Voice 11: yeah we're pulling supports from existing now and there's not much of it on our hands

[1:46:29] Voice 11: so i'm freaked out

[1:46:38] Voice 8: um going back a bit to what the solid uh said about you know people aren't going to build

[1:46:45] Voice 8: I think it would be interesting to do a housing survey because there are actually a lot of

[1:46:51] Voice 8: what would be called secondary housing units on Centrega.

[1:46:57] Voice 8: Some of them, there are secondary suites, some of them are actually used for rentals.

[1:47:05] Voice 8: There are some that are more, not secondary suites, they're more like a duplex.

[1:47:10] Voice 8: there's cabins that people have, there are suites above garages and work jobs and whatever.

[1:47:18] Voice 8: And although some of them are rented, the vast majority are not.

[1:47:22] Voice 8: They are created in big expensive houses too, as guest accommodation, as visitors, for all those things.

[1:47:33] Voice 8: And my concern is to allow people to build secondary suites.

[1:47:37] Voice 8: and there's absolutely no control over what they might do this for you cannot force people to rent

[1:47:45] Voice 8: their accommodation and let alone rent it at a reasonable amount you're not going to create

[1:47:52] Voice 8: in a you know a million or two million dollar house a separate suite but you're going to turn

[1:47:57] Voice 8: around and rent out long term to somebody on the island it's just probably not going to happen

[1:48:02] Voice 8: them. There are, as I said, there are a number of units on Lake Island, and I know we couldn't,

[1:48:10] Voice 8: and they're not being used for that, and what's even worse is that some of them are being used

[1:48:15] Voice 8: as short-term vacation rentals, which just drives the price up for everybody else, takes those units

[1:48:21] Voice 8: out of any rental pool, and it makes it more expensive for rent. So is there any way that we

[1:48:26] Voice 8: could look at incentivizing people that already have that additional accommodation that might work

[1:48:33] Voice 8: for longer term um housing to you know to rent it out to people rather than just for their own

[1:48:42] Voice 8: personal use um and i think those are the things that we need to look at before we add some extra

[1:48:49] Voice 8: accommodation on the island that's really going to be more of the same than what we have

[1:48:53] Voice 8: of short-term visitors rather than yellow combination for people that live and work here

[1:49:01] Voice 8: and that's where i think we could have meetings about you know those types of things of how we

[1:49:06] Voice 8: do and i think a housing survey would be really very beneficial so i'd be interested to see how

[1:49:13] Voice 8: we might expand that when

[1:49:15] Voice 7: people rent part of their house um are there taxing locations

[1:49:24] Voice 7: that was my talk because i'm not sure you're going to get everybody to um and talk about

[1:49:31] Voice 7: auxiliary housing in my path i

[1:49:34] Voice 10: have a few comments first one is so um i'm the owner

[1:49:38] Voice 10: of the building business that my son is the last four houses they have built uh all been

[1:49:44] Voice 10: less than a thousand square feet one thousand four hundred square feet so there is uh a kind

[1:49:51] Voice 10: and in this day and age do largely do high-cost construction,

[1:49:55] Voice 10: maybe square foot, maybe smaller housing.

[1:49:57] Voice 10: So that's going to resolve itself to a degree.

[1:50:01] Voice 10: Comments?

[1:50:02] Voice 10: By MarketBudget.

[1:50:02] Voice 10: By MarketBudget's comments.

[1:50:05] Voice 10: I appreciate comments that were included in this report

[1:50:11] Voice 10: on my subdivision.

[1:50:12] Voice 10: It did stress that there was a resolution with our press

[1:50:18] Voice 10: committee that um did approve the use of catchment water for some of the businesses that has gone

[1:50:26] Voice 10: to into the system but it doesn't seem to go up to the ears from the eyes of the people that

[1:50:32] Voice 10: probably make the final decision so that is um that's a problem with the system not the trust

[1:50:40] and I appreciate that and

[1:50:44] Voice 10: a final comment about the million dollar houses and they're more than

[1:50:51] Voice 10: millions now but the big expensive houses I do see a need in our diminishing health care system

[1:51:00] Voice 10: in this province which I think we can look forward to sliding down so that we're sold for

[1:51:06] Voice 10: sometimes become some of those big houses may in fact want to sleep so the people that live there

[1:51:16] Voice 10: can stay there and have somebody look after us uh because the system we don't look at

[1:51:23] Voice 10: are anywhere else so i do believe that there is a place for the legal um development from that

[1:51:38] Voice 13: I

[1:51:39] Voice 5: just wanted to say that I think a survey would be a very good idea and there is actually

[1:51:45] Voice 5: Salt Spring Solutions, Brad I don't know if you saw that, they've also launched a survey.

[1:51:50] Voice 5: So we have a COD survey, we have the one that you created for North Pender and we have Salt

[1:51:57] Voice 5: spring solutions and maybe we should look at those together and just make one for saturn island i

[1:52:05] Voice 5: think the one for you made for north pender is probably a good you know starting point and then

[1:52:10] Voice 5: we just look at the others to see if there are elements that we should absorb because um and

[1:52:18] Voice 5: you know there are issues out there i think um paul you've spoken to the fact that the census

[1:52:25] Voice 5: census data doesn't really tell you everything that's going on on the island because people

[1:52:31] Voice 5: who are below the radar are below the radar and don't appear on the census data so getting the

[1:52:38] Voice 5: survey out and i think on north pender you had a bit of a hiatus until um you know it was really

[1:52:47] Voice 5: pushed out into the community and then you got a good response and we would have to really work

[1:52:52] Voice 5: hard at getting a good response to the survey. Can you talk about that Brad?

[1:52:59] Voice 6: What's that sorry?

[1:53:01] Voice 5: The housing survey.

[1:53:03] Voice 6: What do you want from me?

[1:53:05] Voice 5: Can you talk

[1:53:06] Voice 5: about what kind of response you got and what kind of

[1:53:10] Voice 5: data you're seeing?

[1:53:14] Voice 6: So 375 responses today which is pretty good I think. The survey seeks information on

[1:53:22] Voice 6: on demographics, housing needs,

[1:53:25] Voice 6: and I guess housing solutions for lack of a better term.

[1:53:30] Voice 6: 16 questions, it takes five or six, seven minutes

[1:53:33] Voice 6: to complete.

[1:53:35] Voice 6: Most of the questions are closed.

[1:53:37] Voice 6: There are a couple other questions.

[1:53:39] Voice 6: There is a question that seeks information

[1:53:44] Voice 6: on what policy amendments or changes

[1:53:48] Voice 6: that would be in the purview of Islands Trust

[1:53:50] Voice 6: should be considered.

[1:53:51] Voice 6: The key ones that emerged on Northenda were like advocacy for traditional not-for-profit

[1:53:58] Voice 6: housing development, as well as flexible housing, flexible accessory dwelling unit approaches,

[1:54:11] Voice 6: looking at multi-family or multi-unit residential zoning.

[1:54:18] Voice 6: So it's giving the local trust committee committee one because engagement is really difficult on North Bender they get like 10 people to their meetings so considering their populations, really not really very well subscribed to.

[1:54:34] Voice 6: And so now this has allowed us to at least tap into the community and better understand their housing needs.

[1:54:39] Voice 6: Yeah,

[1:54:42] Voice 5: thanks. Sure, go ahead.

[1:54:48] Voice 13: David,

[1:54:50] Voice 5: could I ask you something, just to throw it out there as another piece of information.

[1:54:55] Voice 5: On Main Island, you actually brought Habitat for Humanity to the island to consider a

[1:55:06] Voice 5: a collaboration. Can you provide an update on that in the context of expanding housing

[1:55:15] Voice 5: choices?

[1:55:17] Trustee Maude: Well, Habitat for Humanity are enthusiastic about doing something on the go. It's not

[1:55:24] Trustee Maude: specific to Maine, although they've been over to Maine a couple of times. Their criteria

[1:55:30] Trustee Maude: area it's not really really tight but it's somewhat tight uh and what they're particularly

[1:55:36] Trustee Maude: seeking is uh land um the assurance that if they can find a donor of land um they can put a project

[1:55:46] Trustee Maude: together um the particular thing though the demographic that they're looking at addressing

[1:55:51] Trustee Maude: are young families um so um they would they would look at a component say if it was say

[1:55:59] Trustee Maude: a duplex or a house with a suite where the primary was for a family and then as seniors could have

[1:56:06] Trustee Maude: access to a suite or to the other side of the duplex that's a that's perhaps something to look

[1:56:11] Trustee Maude: at but their primary focus is young families they have a really really good program like it's it's

[1:56:19] Trustee Maude: come over done two community presentations um it's a well-funded well-organized organization

[1:56:26] Trustee Maude: But what they're really desperately looking for is a donor plan so that they can complete

[1:56:32] Trustee Maude: the survey and actually put together a project on Agle Island.

[1:56:37] Trustee Maude: So if this community, when you're shaking the bushes, if you have one or two people

[1:56:44] Trustee Maude: say, you know, I might be interested in participating, they would probably be very enthusiastic to

[1:56:48] Trustee Maude: come over for a public meeting to lay out who they are, what their plans are and all

[1:56:53] Trustee Maude: that.

[1:56:54] Trustee Maude: On Main Island, we have what's been called the Church Board's property, which is owned by the Anguson Diocese.

[1:57:01] Trustee Maude: And they, I believe they have 16 densities there.

[1:57:07] Trustee Maude: And Habitat for Humanity has been working with the diocese to see if there's perhaps an opportunity to donate the land or lease the land for the diocese.

[1:57:15] Trustee Maude: They seem to be pretty positive about that, but they haven't been able to execute yet.

[1:57:20] Trustee Maude: yet. So they're out there. They are interested in yes, it is a

[1:57:24] Trustee Maude: very viable option.

[1:57:27] Voice 5: Thanks. That's great. Thanks for that.

[1:57:30] Trustee Maude: So we're going to be first.

[1:57:32] Trustee Middleton: So I think, in some ways, what we have here is two parts, or

[1:57:39] Trustee Middleton: two, two goals. One is to obviously update and clarify

[1:57:45] Trustee Middleton: to verify the groundwater data that was originally uncovered with the first secondary suite by law.

[1:57:56] Trustee Middleton: And then obviously the second part of it is to look at options for increasing, I guess,

[1:58:04] Trustee Middleton: or look at increasing housing options, in this case secondary suites.

[1:58:09] Trustee Middleton: So, unfortunately, reading it, you may get the impression that, as per Janet, you're looking at an overturning of restrictions on use of groundwater at East Point, which I can see how we would get from reading it, to be perfectly honest.

[1:58:26] Trustee Middleton: this but my you know what i'm hearing now is that that's actually not the initial intent of this um

[1:58:33] Trustee Middleton: of this proposal and so i'm just wondering if we can kind of to get better uh value shall we say

[1:58:39] Trustee Middleton: from the from the amount of battery we're putting into this can we actually understood that for

[1:58:46] Trustee Middleton: trustee bowen's comments this is like a foundational layering of looking at where

[1:58:52] Trustee Middleton: air is thermal capacity where are there issues with the aquifer given updating mapping knowing

[1:58:57] Trustee Middleton: that most likely as plantersmith has said we're not going to be touching east point but potentially

[1:59:02] Trustee Middleton: east point could have access to water storage technologies that are available to other rest

[1:59:09] Trustee Middleton: residents elsewhere on the island for an equity uh from an equity perspective but it's all

[1:59:15] Trustee Middleton: not yet proposed it's all to be researched and studied but i would say to get the best

[1:59:20] Trustee Middleton: background about why didn't we add auxiliary dwelling units which are what you talk about

[1:59:26] Trustee Middleton: which is you know workshops potentially trailers and just open it up to the study of the whole

[1:59:34] Trustee Middleton: thing so we're looking at changing mapping for writing uh for secondary suites but we're also

[1:59:39] Trustee Middleton: looking at changing mapping to support issues around access to water for these already existent

[1:59:45] Trustee Middleton: or potentially more cheaply built and i'm thinking of what they're wrestling with on salt spring here

[1:59:51] Trustee Middleton: um different forms of construction that are kind of could be thinking oh my god

[1:59:57] Trustee Middleton: what are they doing now this is like

[2:00:00] Trustee Middleton: But it seems to me that if we're going to this effort, let's talk about the type of housing that actually is out there, that's more cheaply built, doesn't preclude secondary suites, it's all of it, right?

[2:00:12] Trustee Middleton: And you're looking, and the one big pushback we know we get on increasing, like, the number of people living on the lot is water availability.

[2:00:20] Trustee Middleton: well let's let's go there let's look at water availability first for all of the above and then

[2:00:26] Trustee Middleton: make some decisions based on what we find which is a kind of thing but trust me you know probably

[2:00:31] Trustee Middleton: why the smith had in mind with the drafting of some of this material but i'm suggesting we add

[2:00:36] Trustee Middleton: accessory dwelling units and use the definitions that's already been developed on salt spring

[2:00:42] Trustee Middleton: island in their various bylaws that they've been putting forward and um um yeah so that's probably

[2:00:53] Voice 8: I was really interested to hear what you had to say about the Habitat for Humanity, and

[2:00:58] Voice 8: I think when I look back over the years, and I'm not quite sure because I haven't been

[2:01:03] Voice 8: really involved, but there have been a number of groups that have gotten together to talk

[2:01:08] Voice 8: about housing issues on Satrana, and I think there were some Habitat groups and whatever,

[2:01:14] Voice 8: and I'm wondering if we might call on those groups to get back in and have these discussions

[2:01:20] Voice 8: And we'll share the information that they've gleaned in the past and what the issues are

[2:01:25] Voice 8: and what their potential solutions might be.

[2:01:30] Voice 8: So that again, we draw on the better, but they might be, there might be, you know, a

[2:01:36] Voice 8: group out there that says, hey, yeah, let's start the habitat humanity so that it's not,

[2:01:40] Voice 8: it gets it out of the island's trust area.

[2:01:49] Voice 11: and there is a structured community but this is a fun part

[2:01:56] Voice 11: and the reasons are you actually developing those complexities of our ocp and water and where they

[2:02:09] Voice 11: they all say see a girl at her all going against the very essence of the world and it is life sciences it's more than just one energy the pond is born and it each should it each people that really want to do something

[2:02:31] Voice 11: My law actually found that availability of land was the problem.

[2:02:41] Voice 11: We can get it, but it isn't the land. It's the rules.

[2:02:48] Voice 11: It needs to have a very holistic effect of a group of people who actually care about it.

[2:02:57] Voice 11: We've got, I just read the form of our service, our ambulances, our fire department,

[2:03:05] Voice 13: our

[2:03:06] Voice 11: young people that are in there.

[2:03:08] Voice 11: They're all rendered.

[2:03:10] Voice 11: Right now, they're lucky that they're rendered.

[2:03:13] Voice 11: Habitat would be awesome.

[2:03:16] Voice 11: And these people who are volunteers, who are there to help us.

[2:03:25] Voice 11: and we need to be doing something to facilitate that they move out and into what happened at

[2:03:31] Voice 11: the other side there's another individual so it will manifest itself but over the years

[2:03:39] Voice 11: we have been very slow to come forward and i think it's time that we have to agree

[2:03:45] Voice 11: yeah that

[2:03:48] Trustee Maude: i would say is is violence trust as a whole i think it's very small to bring that

[2:03:54] Trustee Maude: message like main island north bender a little bit south bender emin island are really working hard

[2:04:03] Trustee Maude: on housing with that exact premise of reducing the barriers it's not necessarily increasing density

[2:04:10] Trustee Maude: but basically saying well what what are the minds in the sand people are struggling with

[2:04:15] Trustee Maude: and how can we do to facilitate because we are a land use model that's the end of it so and that's

[2:04:21] Trustee Maude: why we need to work closely with organizations like the regional districts to help with the

[2:04:27] Trustee Maude: actual executing of these things working with the province to explore funding models for other

[2:04:34] Trustee Maude: organizations because we're just we're a small part of a big pie and as you say we do have a lot

[2:04:43] Trustee Maude: barriers in some of our guidelines that were put in and for good reason but but but it's it is that

[2:04:51] Trustee Maude: now that we're looking at different needs different demands and such we need to adjust

[2:04:57] Trustee Maude: our ways so so i

[2:04:59] Voice 7: have before you're saying that uh paul said we're not looking at a place for

[2:05:08] Voice 7: for 30 people were looking for perhaps on Saturn in two places.

[2:05:13] Voice 7: And I think that was understood that they were looking at a more positive response to that.

[2:05:19] Voice 7: I see an absolutely really encouraging reason for the Gulf Islands being set aside.

[2:05:28] Voice 7: I have no understanding why the preserve and protect mandate is so confounding to people.

[2:05:33] Voice 7: To me

[2:05:34] Voice 7: it's like we can understand that's the tax,

[2:05:36] Voice 7: but it comes to something like preserve and protect and people go I don't know what that means.

[2:05:41] Voice 7: Well, I know what it means, that we have an incredible amount of diversity here and we need to protect them.

[2:05:49] Voice 7: And I, if I knew that this was going to be limited to two houses or something like that,

[2:05:56] Voice 7: with the much more supportive than some sort of shift in which we're uh going to allow

[2:06:05] Voice 7: you know we're going to suspend what we had when we are going to allow secondary suites

[2:06:11] Voice 7: you know broad base that concerns me for me it's like um old growth forest if i knew

[2:06:20] Voice 7: that the province was going to absolutely set aside this number this amount of acres in these

[2:06:27] Voice 7: prime areas that i could relax about forestry and that helps me a lot to know that there are

[2:06:35] Voice 7: there's containment um there's a comprehension that all these people who come to the belt

[2:06:41] Voice 7: islands because they're so beautiful realize that there's cost of that that means you can't do all

[2:06:47] Voice 7: of this development it's limited and i think the trust has done a very good job of that yes

[2:06:55] Voice 7: we do need more housing for people like harvey and five and john who came with very limited budgets

[2:07:02] Voice 7: well no budget 50 years ago and made this place our home and have contributed deeply to the

[2:07:10] Voice 7: communities that we have gone to um and our expectations were zilch but you know we live in

[2:07:17] Voice 7: what's called substandard housing quite happily for maybe 20 years 15 years and i i am willing

[2:07:27] Voice 7: to buy some amount of housing we have some wonderful young people here i don't know how

[2:07:32] Voice 7: they're going to get from here to buying land and houses just not because of us not because of the

[2:07:37] Voice 7: trust because the world has changed. The market economy has changed. I'm not responsible for that

[2:07:42] Voice 7: and the trust isn't either.

[2:07:44] Trustee Maude: But I think the struggle is going to be is doing a small target

[2:07:49] Trustee Maude: versus a

[2:07:50] Voice 13: broad brush because it's

[2:07:53] Trustee Maude: like for me like five or six years ago we opened up

[2:07:58] Trustee Maude: most of the island of secondary suites like we basically we did we did a broad brush

[2:08:04] Trustee Maude: here it is we're allowing secondary suites. I think I know the two of them that's right.

[2:08:14] Trustee Maude: So what happens when you open it up is you basically say to a whole bunch of people if

[2:08:20] Trustee Maude: you're thinking about it you can do it but a lot of people come out thinking about the barriers

[2:08:26] Trustee Maude: to achieving these things between regulations and construction costs and labor availability

[2:08:34] Trustee Maude: There's not a lot of people who are opt-taking on these things.

[2:08:38] Trustee Maude: So that's, I think that the Director Brandt's sort of part of his messaging is, you know,

[2:08:44] Trustee Maude: just because you say something doesn't mean it's going to happen.

[2:08:48] Trustee Maude: And so I can kind of understand the large, let's open it up everywhere to keep free opportunities

[2:08:57] Trustee Maude: because the opt-in might be very, very low.

[2:09:00] Trustee Maude: But if it suddenly becomes large, then that's the kind of direction trustees need to sort of step in and help

[2:09:06] Voice 7: you sign it down.

[2:09:08] Trustee Maude: You

[2:09:09] Voice 7: know, all things that we can put two trailers in, in some accessible place and something that is very usable, then I'm supportive of that.

[2:09:20] Voice 7: I am not supportive of saying you can put secondary suits wherever you want.

[2:09:24] Voice 7: So I think

[2:09:25] Trustee Maude: that's what we're going to get at the public meetings is that we get some community meetings together and hopefully we get a good turnout and we get a good.

[2:09:41] Voice 1: Well,

[2:09:42] Trustee Maude: we'll put you in charge of that.

[2:09:43] Trustee Maude: So what we need to do, rather than spend another hour on this, is we need to get a road forward.

[2:09:51] Trustee Maude: and so between the trustees we have a motion record motion before us i don't know if that's

[2:10:00] Trustee Maude: you guys want to proceed as it is if you want to take some stuff out if you want to

[2:10:05] Trustee Maude: add some stuff in but i think we need to craft some wording now to sort of

[2:10:10] Trustee Maude: bring this concern to a conclusion so i don't see any enthusiasm on some trustees

[2:10:17] Trustee Maude: speed so what do you kids think i

[2:10:24] Voice 5: would have a go but can you give me a minute just to get

[2:10:27] Voice 5: back to the place because broadly speaking what's there is uh good um but i just want to make sure

[2:10:36] Voice 5: that you know what lee and i spoke of is really covered and then i can't find the page and tell

[2:10:45] Voice 5: me what page we're on again i've drifted

[2:10:46] Trustee Maude: around the recommendation is which

[2:10:49] Voice 5: is page 63. 63 yeah

[2:10:53] Voice 5: i zipped up and down and then i just couldn't get back to it okay

[2:11:14] Voice 5: So I don't want to, I do want more information, but I don't want to delay the preparation

[2:11:23] Voice 5: of the initial draft.

[2:11:24] Voice 5: and in fact the second one which is may decide not to proceed you know in one package I actually

[2:11:38] Voice 5: want to proceed in one package but I want it step by step and I want those additional pieces

[2:11:44] Voice 5: of information which was can we find out how many applications some approximation of new wells

[2:11:52] Voice 5: on saturn as a role um and the cost of um installing you know water tanks so those

[2:12:03] Voice 5: kind i i'll actually try and find that information myself and provide it to the planners so

[2:12:10] Voice 7: you're so committed to pardon what why don't you you should have some really clear ideas

[2:12:19] Voice 7: Why don't we write down the step-by-step and what we would like and submit that?

[2:12:28] Voice 7: Okay,

[2:12:29] Voice 5: so what I suggested was that we start with an updated saltwater intrusion map for

[2:12:41] Voice 5: Saturna, and I think that's there anyway.

[2:12:43] Voice 5: way um and then the next thing i wanted was then to look at the information about

[2:12:52] Voice 5: and new applications and wells that we will present this together and i'm

[2:13:02] Voice 4: sorry i'm not

[2:13:02] Voice 5: i'm not being very well organized brad jump in and help me here do you take on board what i'm

[2:13:08] Voice 5: looking for do i need to be very very explicit i

[2:13:11] Voice 6: think that when

[2:13:13] Voice 5: we're at an

[2:13:14] Voice 6: hour so we're just

[2:13:15] Voice 6: seeking direction to draft a bylaw which would be a draft which can still be altered and changed and

[2:13:21] Voice 6: manipulated uh uh i'm still not totally clear what you want to do with the weld out how you want to

[2:13:29] Voice 6: help inform whether a cistern is needed or not i think that's the direction up to now and i think

[2:13:36] Voice 6: some of the argument has been that it's just community and equity and fairness that everyone

[2:13:40] Voice 6: across the local trust area would be required a cistern if they're if they're contemplating a

[2:13:47] Voice 6: new bill or renovation similar to what east point has so that's simple to do if you want to start

[2:13:54] Voice 6: going into well record data and looking property by property i don't even know how how i don't

[2:14:00] Voice 6: know where you're trying to get to there okay

[2:14:02] Voice 5: so let me back out of this then the community

[2:14:05] Voice 5: community information meeting in January, which is proposed, do we have to have a draft

[2:14:13] Voice 5: bylaw then, or can we have a more extensive data package then?

[2:14:22] Voice 6: It's just not clear to me what data you want, how I'm supposed to get at it and what it's

[2:14:27] Voice 6: going to be used for.

[2:14:28] Voice 6: I think,

[2:14:28] Trustee Middleton: yeah, we might have entered the correct forest, but we're at the wrong tree, I think.

[2:14:34] Trustee Middleton: it's like we're talking about increasing housing options and what we're going down the path that's

[2:14:41] Trustee Middleton: going into a lot of detail about data and that's water like ability of mapping i'm just not sure

[2:14:48] Trustee Middleton: that's well that may be good housekeeping work i don't know that it's getting us to where we

[2:14:55] Trustee Middleton: actually want to go which is increased housing options we know that i don't know why we're

[2:15:01] Trustee Middleton: talking about water because in the past that's been the limiting factor to options um you know

[2:15:07] Trustee Middleton: increasing the number of options because it will be straining resources we believe that there's

[2:15:13] Trustee Middleton: fruit in defining uh water storage as a way of getting around that that concern but are we

[2:15:21] Trustee Middleton: needing to do something a little more broad here like i i know what embedded in here would become

[2:15:26] Trustee Middleton: a bylaw that's revised based on new mapping data for water for secondary suites maybe that's good

[2:15:33] Trustee Middleton: enough but i'm kind of hearing that we're after a bit more than that or should i rephrase it trustee

[2:15:43] Trustee Middleton: roll and you're perhaps after cleaning up some data that underlays some of our fishery committee

[2:15:48] Trustee Middleton: plan as a as its own project and i think that's probably the way it should go because then trying

[2:15:56] Trustee Middleton: to make that as the basis of increasing um housing options is kind of leading us down the path where

[2:16:04] Trustee Middleton: we're getting some misunderstanding i think i would almost say universal misunderstandings

[2:16:10] Trustee Middleton: in fact

[2:16:13] Voice 5: i do have like to respond to brad and you talk about the fact that the salt water you go um

[2:16:22] Voice 5: the LTC may want to consider some exclusions to the approach of only using saltwater intrusion

[2:16:31] Voice 5: data to determine if secondary suites are permitted. That's kind of where I'm going.

[2:16:36] Voice 5: On the one hand, we have the saltwater intrusion map. On the other hand, we should inform ourselves

[2:16:42] Voice 5: beyond that, rather than just mechanistically apply the saltwater intrusion map. So your example

[2:16:51] Voice 5: of East Point was a good example because indeed there are areas there that a saltwater intrusion

[2:16:57] Voice 5: map applied mechanistically would include in secondary suites, but we need to consider other

[2:17:05] Voice 5: information. So perhaps we need to go ahead with preparation of the new map and gather some extra

[2:17:14] Voice 5: information to inform a discussion that's

[2:17:17] Voice 12: not

[2:17:22] Voice 5: that's not what I I read in

[2:17:24] Voice 5: the way that it was presented to be honest but okay that's what I want so in

[2:17:32] Voice 6: the staff report it says that staff will bring back recommendations after they do

[2:17:38] Voice 6: do more analysis on the on the mapping. And so we can bring a

[2:17:48] Voice 6: bring a draft bylaw back and the the thought would be that either

[2:17:53] Voice 6: at your next meeting, or if you just wanted to see I am and

[2:17:56] Voice 6: talk about it in your next meeting, the meeting after that,

[2:17:58] Voice 6: at some point, you would be considering those recommendations

[2:18:03] Voice 6: from staff and for example, say, okay, there are a couple

[2:18:07] Voice 6: properties that are now in low to moderate at this point, but in

[2:18:11] In

[2:18:11] Voice 6: fact, we're just going to still say that East Point isn't allowed secondary suites altogether

[2:18:19] Voice 6: because it's only a couple of properties and all the other surrounding properties wouldn't be allowed

[2:18:22] Voice 6: and the Dow is brand new.

[2:18:26] Voice 6: A year ago with William here, we did try to present an option where you could look at more broadly

[2:18:32] Voice 6: like the land use suitability analysis and bringing in data, not just the saltwater incursion,

[2:18:38] Voice 6: but uh fresh water especially suggested that you also consider uh groundwater recharge mapping

[2:18:46] Voice 6: uh as to where secondary suites would be appropriate so up to now

[2:18:50] Voice 6: we've gone down this

[2:18:51] Voice 6: road with this pretty simple amendment pathway because that's the direction that we've received

[2:18:57] Voice 6: all along we want to change that it's okay but uh that's to be clear that's why we're at where

[2:19:04] Voice 5: I've asked about the land suitability toolkit and haven't had a clear response about it.

[2:19:13] Voice 5: Anyway, let's go back to this case in hand.

[2:19:16] Voice 5: Okay, let's go ahead with the community.

[2:19:19] Voice 5: And my suggestion would be a community information meeting in January with the draft and new maps, absorption of that new data.

[2:19:29] Voice 5: And, you know, I will personally dig around and find out about if you can help me with applications, some data to support that.

[2:19:39] Voice 5: Because, yes, you can just say we'll exclude those areas on East Point, but we have to actually explain why.

[2:19:48] Voice 5: We can't just go across the map saying, well, you know, here's the map, but actually we're just going to change it here, there and everywhere.

[2:19:56] Voice 5: were there's the issue again as i said of the water systems that were excluded

[2:20:02] Voice 5: um so those are topics that would come up uh when we look at that newly drafted map

[2:20:11] Trustee Maude: so are we still landing on the recommended motion or is there adjustment needed

[2:20:20] Trustee Maude: deletions or additions to that recommended motion are we happy as it sits

[2:20:25] Trustee Middleton: well i think the map

[2:20:27] Trustee Middleton: I don't think our staff can proceed with any of what we've asked without actually following

[2:20:33] Trustee Middleton: their recommendations.

[2:20:35] Trustee Middleton: My only concern is that will it be, we've had the explanation, but when you read the

[2:20:42] Trustee Middleton: motion on the face, it looks like we're getting rid of the water management area on East Point

[2:20:47] Trustee Middleton: without a consideration or concern that we're going to propose in the by-law to have a storage

[2:20:54] Trustee Middleton: the storage regime that would apply to everyone right which we may or may not agree to like

[2:21:00] Trustee Middleton: because it's green areas do we want to insist that people have story but I mean it gets the

[2:21:05] Trustee Middleton: conversation going it's the starting point understand that so I mean I'd be willing on that

[2:21:12] Voice 6: for the chair for B it says remove the map and update the storage requirement to apply to

[2:21:19] Voice 6: yeah so so

[2:21:21] Voice 5: should we rephrase it to say that like is it really we're preparing a draft bylaw

[2:21:28] Voice 5: or are we preparing a proposal which we will discuss and refine at that community information

[2:21:37] Voice 5: meeting same

[2:21:38] Trustee Maude: thing yeah okay

[2:21:41] Voice 5: fine so

[2:21:44] Trustee Maude: as it so again so as it stands for a political forward

[2:21:48] Trustee Maude: has this is there anything you want to take out what is that well i think it is internally

[2:21:54] Trustee Middleton: consistent as staff prevented presented it um and i think it does get at the later approach

[2:22:00] Trustee Middleton: that trustee mullen talked about um and it will probably clean up and give options around

[2:22:06] Trustee Middleton: secondary suites for the community to consider um so it is a starting point can

[2:22:13] Voice 5: we change the order

[2:22:15] Voice 5: because D to me is the first step. Revise the secondary suites map in

[2:22:22] Voice 5: consideration of the updated 2022 provincial saltwater intrusion mapping.

[2:22:31] Trustee Maude: The order isn't, I don't think it makes any difference to staff.

[2:22:35] Voice 6: There's no order or ranking, it's just simply four things.

[2:22:39] Voice 12: it's really interesting so if

[2:22:43] Trustee Maude: you're reading the motion if you want to read d as a that's fine but

[2:22:50] Trustee Maude: i don't think it doesn't make any difference to staff well

[2:22:54] Voice 5: i think to me it it just explains it

[2:22:58] Voice 5: better and the way i read it as lee said it's consistent and it's correct but if you come to

[2:23:06] Voice 5: it cold and read it you're going to go what the hell's going on here because you know it's a tick

[2:23:13] Voice 5: check box of activities but to me the starting point is the revision of that map with respect

[2:23:20] Voice 5: to the updated uh provincial map so okay i'll read the motion and i'll put that first okay so

[2:23:28] Trustee Maude: So Carly, I guess, should be doing the minutes.

[2:23:33] Voice 1: Yes, I'm with you.

[2:23:34] Voice 1: Thank you.

[2:23:35] Trustee Maude: So she's going to read it out.

[2:23:36] Trustee Maude: So basically what she's going to do is these are going to become A.

[2:23:40] Trustee Maude: Perfect, thanks.

[2:23:41] Trustee Maude: You just need a little bit of cutting and pasting.

[2:23:43] Trustee Maude: Okay.

[2:23:45] Trustee Maude: Okay, Trustee Bowman, you're on the go.

[2:23:47] Trustee Maude: Okay.

[2:23:48] Voice 5: I move that the Saturna Island Local Trust Committee direct staff to prepare a draft

[2:23:55] Voice 5: draft by-law that would amend the Saturna Island land use by-law number 119-2018

[2:24:03] Voice 5: revising the associated Schedule E secondary suites map in consideration of updated

[2:24:09] Voice 5: 2022 provincial saltwater intrusion mapping,

[2:24:15] Voice 5: changing all references of rainwater to freshwater to be consistent with other recent amendments

[2:24:21] Voice 5: and the advice of the Islands Trust Senior Freshwater Specialist,

[2:24:25] Voice 5: removing Schedule E East Point Water Management Area

[2:24:29] Voice 5: and updating water storage requirements in Section 2.18 Water Storage

[2:24:36] Voice 5: for any new residential building visitor accommodation unit

[2:24:41] Voice 5: or addition to a residential building or visitor accommodation unit

[2:24:45] Voice 5: to apply across the entire

[2:24:47] Voice 5: Saturna Island Trust

[2:24:49] Voice 5: Island Local Trust area

[2:24:52] Voice 5: simplifying secondary

[2:24:53] Voice 5: suite provision 2.18.5

[2:24:57] Voice 5: by deleting the reference to areas

[2:25:00] Voice 5: having moderate to high

[2:25:01] Voice 5: aquifer vulnerability

[2:25:02] Voice 5: I'd like to add there

[2:25:04] Voice 5: moderate to high aquifer vulnerability

[2:25:07] Voice 5: to saltwater intrusion

[2:25:09] Voice 5: full stop

[2:25:12] Voice 5: Alright,

[2:25:14] Trustee Maude: seconded Trustee Milton

[2:25:15] Trustee Maude: any further discussion

[2:25:23] Trustee Maude: So all in

[2:25:24] Trustee Maude: favour? That carries. So then the second motion.

[2:25:31] Trustee Middleton: Okay, I'll make that one.

[2:25:32] Trustee Middleton: Local trust committee there are staff to schedule a meeting on the minor amendments at the January 2025 regular business meeting and to advertise the meeting in St.

[2:25:44] Trustee Middleton: trying to split the

[2:25:45] Trustee Maude: second trustee yeah

[2:25:47] Voice 13: any

[2:25:49] Trustee Maude: further discussion question all in favor and

[2:25:54] Trustee Maude: were you wanting to let anywhere on the water the systems for subdivision

[2:26:02] Trustee Maude: i think

[2:26:03] Trustee Middleton: i will be opportunistic when i see what is prepared in terms of because obviously if we

[2:26:12] Trustee Middleton: have standards for storage that's a football to go to other factors in regard to water so i'll

[2:26:18] Trustee Middleton: i'll wait for my aren't you maybe at that point okay fair enough so

[2:26:23] Trustee Maude: january meeting we expect to

[2:26:25] Trustee Maude: see all of you here okay

[2:26:27] Voice 7: oh well the other thing is that you know we did bring out about whether

[2:26:32] Voice 7: if i don't whether the advisory plan maybe whether you would have um more discussion this is we're

[2:26:40] Voice 7: all facing you there's quite a lot of decorum that's involved in this and i don't think you're

[2:26:45] Voice 7: going to get what it is you're not going to get a free flowing comment statement because we need

[2:26:50] Voice 7: to be mindful of the behavior that is expected in this meeting so

[2:26:57] Trustee Maude: advisory plan commission is

[2:26:59] Trustee Maude: meeting regularly no we had one

[2:27:02] Voice 7: one sort of off-the-record meeting having to do with the

[2:27:05] Voice 7: road at east point okay

[2:27:06] Voice 1: and

[2:27:07] Voice 7: i think two or three of us are honest i think i i don't know we just

[2:27:11] Voice 7: got set up and then it seemed to have um no i

[2:27:17] Trustee Middleton: know i apologize for not knowing this but

[2:27:20] Trustee Middleton: who are the abc members uh

[2:27:23] Voice 7: i am again rob galloway and the person has another person

[2:27:34] Voice 5: that advisory planning group was set up to look at roads and we it was set you know created

[2:27:46] Voice 5: explicitly for that it can be used for other purposes but maybe we can have the meeting in

[2:27:53] Voice 5: january and then consider what to do after that it's uh stephen brown from east point i believe

[2:28:00] Voice 5: from cliffside yeah i

[2:28:04] Voice 7: i you know when i applied for that job and i took myself off of the um

[2:28:10] Voice 7: uh what do we call it she asked for a change something that doesn't go with the

[2:28:17] Voice 7: in order to be part of this committee so i i have um an interest in this marie and uh what i sent

[2:28:31] Voice 7: out and what i applied for was not that it was simply for the roads so um either we have an

[2:28:40] Voice 7: advisory planning committee or we don't thank

[2:28:43] Voice 6: you so to clarify advisory planning commissions you

[2:28:48] Voice 6: you need to refer, APCs only consider matters referred to them by the local trust committee.

[2:28:55] Voice 6: In this case today, the local trust committee has not made a referral to the APC, so that's

[2:28:59] Voice 6: why they're just standing down in a sense.

[2:29:02] Voice 12: Okay, so

[2:29:05] Trustee Maude: is the West, at this juncture, referred to the APC, or do you want to wait

[2:29:11] Trustee Maude: post the january meeting

[2:29:16] Trustee Maude: yeah i think

[2:29:19] Trustee Middleton: waiting uh post the january to actually have some community discussion

[2:29:23] Trustee Middleton: and then see if we're gonna know we'll just hear what that discussion is basically so that we'll

[2:29:32] Voice 13: have a draft

[2:29:33] Trustee Middleton: by law which would then be referred to the apc for review at that point okay so so

[2:29:39] Voice 7: you're going to put that draft by what's in this housing minor whatever it is and that's putting

[2:29:46] Voice 7: and that's going to go up on the whole open boards and right it's going to put that in the stripper

[2:29:51] Voice 7: and you think you're going to get a community discussion out of that

[2:29:55] Voice 7: or do

[2:29:55] Voice 1: you want a

[2:29:56] Voice 7: community discussion i mean are you going to get that the match

[2:30:00] Voice 7: always people that are looking for housing or are you not looking for that

[2:30:05] Trustee Maude: the goal is as many

[2:30:07] Trustee Maude: people as possible that's always the goal so um

[2:30:11] Voice 10: just to know the apcs i've been on the apcs for

[2:30:16] Voice 10: the last 41 years um and i was on the last official i think official one i never heard

[2:30:22] Voice 10: that it needs to be expanded, but it seemed to just go away.

[2:30:29] Voice 10: If the APC is going to start to make official comment

[2:30:34] Voice 10: on matters such as we're talking about,

[2:30:38] Voice 10: then I think it needs to be more than three people to start with.

[2:30:43] Voice 10: It shouldn't stem from a committee that was organized to talk about roads.

[2:30:48] Voice 10: It needs to be put out there as a position that people can apply for and get approved

[2:30:55] Voice 10: by the

[2:31:01] Voice 10: testimony to overlook or oversee these bylaws.

[2:31:05] Voice 10: Maybe some of them will be better overlooked,

[2:31:08] Voice 10: but I think overseers

[2:31:10] Voice 10: I think

[2:31:11] Voice 1: it's

[2:31:12] Voice 7: probably which is why I saw

[2:31:14] Voice 11: You can only treat me

[2:31:16] Voice 11: Correct, and don't go back about those in the end.

[2:31:20] Voice 11: The ABCs actually function as an extension, if you will, of the trustees to be the ground

[2:31:29] Voice 11: groups to go ahead and delve deeper into a specific zoning issue and also the application

[2:31:40] Voice 11: warrants and recommendations.

[2:31:44] Voice 11: That's all it is.

[2:31:45] Voice 11: It's not a community information session.

[2:31:47] Voice 11: and if that's what would be

[2:31:48] Voice 11: a match for call the community so

[2:31:51] Trustee Maude: my question is

[2:31:53] Trustee Maude: do you want to advertise from our members the apc and then have a january meeting if there's

[2:32:05] Trustee Maude: a few more members the apc to refer on the apc is there a mechanism that way you want to proceed

[2:32:11] Trustee Maude: Or

[2:32:12] Voice 7: community meeting, something before you did this.

[2:32:15] Trustee Maude: Yeah.

[2:32:16] Voice 7: You see...

[2:32:18] Trustee Maude: Well, I said trustee Waller would have something to say, so...

[2:32:23] Trustee Maude: You're muted, trustee Waller.

[2:32:25] Trustee Maude: Oh, thanks.

[2:32:28] Voice 5: Well, I mean, we could put it to that community information meeting in January.

[2:32:35] Voice 5: We'd have a package of information and we could put it to them, you know, discuss then

[2:32:41] Voice 5: then when, whether we should refer it and advertise to expand the APC.

[2:32:51] Voice 5: I don't know, I'm inclined to do that.

[2:32:55] Voice 5: But on the other hand, we could advertise now saying that this is coming

[2:32:59] Voice 5: and who else wants to join and ask for applicants.

[2:33:02] Voice 5: It might get more traction.

[2:33:07] Voice 5: But the question I actually had, so that's, I'm kind of okay.

[2:33:12] Voice 5: with either scenario. And Brad, when we have that community information meeting,

[2:33:22] Voice 5: how do we move to the next version of the bylaw? Do we then have a meeting immediately after that

[2:33:36] Voice 5: and consider the information from that meeting

[2:33:39] Voice 5: and make recommendations with respect to changing it or what.

[2:33:48] Voice 6: So the CIM would occur in your next meeting agenda

[2:33:51] Voice 6: prior to consideration of a staff report

[2:33:53] Voice 6: that will bring forward a draft attending bylaw

[2:33:55] Voice 6: and more analysis on the mapping for LTC to consider.

[2:34:00] Voice 6: And at that time, you could have a discussion

[2:34:03] Voice 6: about what you heard in the CIM

[2:34:05] Voice 6: and if there are specific changes that you want to see the bylaw or more analysis done that would

[2:34:11] Voice 6: be the time to direct staff and then you could either just receive that draft bylaw for information

[2:34:17] Voice 6: at that meeting or you could consider giving a first reading but it probably won't be ready for

[2:34:22] Voice 6: that yet but so so a draft bylaw is still very malleable you can change bylaws up to you give

[2:34:30] Voice 6: of third reading. So I think just getting something on paper is

[2:34:35] Voice 6: worthwhile. And again, the reason for Scott splitting this

[2:34:43] Voice 6: work from your other housing work is that your other housing

[2:34:47] Voice 6: work will probably take some time to flush out and very well

[2:34:51] Voice 6: require a list of key amendments that would require ministers

[2:34:54] Voice 6: approval. So you could have this sister and secondary suite

[2:34:57] Voice 6: we provision work done way sooner than if you lump it in with the other stuff.

[2:35:05] Voice 6: And you can choose to lump it in as well and take that time,

[2:35:08] Voice 6: but that's just the purpose of separating these two items from that other piece.

[2:35:16] Voice 6: Is

[2:35:16] Trustee Middleton: that what's like status quo at this point?

[2:35:19] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, we'll have the community information meeting with something to respond to in January,

[2:35:25] Trustee Middleton: and then we'll roll it out from there as to what...

[2:35:29] Trustee Middleton: what we need to see or what we want to do in terms of the input we get um well

[2:35:37] Trustee Maude: i would suggest

[2:35:38] Trustee Maude: that the the similar that you two propose be very verbose and lay all this out and so

[2:35:48] Trustee Maude: encourage people to come

[2:35:50] Voice 13: and

[2:35:52] Trustee Maude: apparently we have to provide food so yeah let's figure that part out

[2:35:56] Trustee Maude: to. So are we

[2:36:02] Voice 5: going to advertise for new members of the APC and that this material will go to the

[2:36:08] Voice 5: APC or not? Should we do that? It

[2:36:11] Trustee Maude: sounds like not. It sounds like that's a January decision.

[2:36:13] Trustee Maude: Just

[2:36:13] Voice 5: wait until January. Okay, fine. That's

[2:36:17] Voice 6: fine. Sorry to interject, but you don't have to

[2:36:20] Voice 6: advertise to add new members to your APC. So for example, Mr. Deans, if you were interested in

[2:36:26] Voice 6: participate you wouldn't need to go through an advertising process to do that it could just be

[2:36:31] Voice 6: the ltc appointee uh whoever in your community so maybe if you could be out drumming new members

[2:36:38] Voice 6: just through your grassroots engagement rather than having to rely on an advertisement so they

[2:36:45] Voice 5: would just apply via that uh okay

[2:36:48] Voice 6: fair

[2:36:50] Voice 5: enough the

[2:36:51] Voice 6: ltc would decide if that's up to seven i think

[2:36:54] Voice 6: period we see by law a five or seven but certainly not a three okay

[2:36:59] Voice 5: and uh brad can i make it uh

[2:37:03] Voice 5: official that um before that meeting like well before i'd really like to have a meeting with you

[2:37:10] Voice 5: to review the information that we're going to pull together at that meeting in january

[2:37:16] Voice 5: because i think my requirements are more extensive than people might imagine

[2:37:21] Voice 6: I think it would be good, my next step will be to work with William and GIS staff on the

[2:37:28] Voice 6: maps and to come to a better understanding of what staff might recommend and certainly

[2:37:34] Voice 6: we can have a discussion with you and William and maybe even our GIS staff and to help clarify

[2:37:42] Voice 6: any questions you may have or better understand the information before we get to the meeting.

[2:37:50] Voice 8: I was just curious whether the APC can organize its own community meeting to talk about some

[2:37:59] Voice 8: of the issues that could then be in it.

[2:38:02] Voice 6: Not typically.

[2:38:03] Voice 12: The

[2:38:04] Voice 6: APC is typically a body of the local trust committee that just provides advice.

[2:38:14] Voice 6: They're not really typically out in the community doing their own engagement or own, that said there's some flexibility like LTC could invite an expert, for example, to meet with them, but the APC conducting their own kind of public engagement without the LTC.

[2:38:33] Voice 1: Maybe that's something the community can do.

[2:38:35] Voice 1: new.

[2:38:36] Voice 5: Yeah, that's what I think is perfectly good, that then you don't have the constraints

[2:38:43] Voice 5: that the Islands Trust to some degree have to follow, you know, the Local Government

[2:38:48] Voice 5: Act procedures, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But something organized within the community

[2:38:53] Voice 5: finishing is more flexible. Yeah,

[2:38:56] Voice 10: I would like to make this one final point and just

[2:39:05] Voice 10: meeting a boat requiring catchment along with joint water. And my concern is that I can

[2:39:17] Voice 10: think of at least 12 or 15 lots currently on the island that may or may not be for sale

[2:39:23] Voice 10: over the next 10 years that have your own wells as part of subdivision process. Now if those people,

[2:39:31] Voice 10: my son specifically, has to go to a new owner that bought a lot, the real estate agent said

[2:39:37] Voice 10: there's a well owned and we're well off the status of us, and then the trust, the hours of

[2:39:44] Voice 1: lease say now you

[2:39:45] Voice 10: have to also install cash and license

[2:39:49] Voice 10: as a requirement before you get a building

[2:39:52] Voice 10: permit my son has to tell these people that it's probably going to cost them ten to twelve thousand

[2:39:56] Voice 10: dollars to put a pump down the hole and get it right to the house and then probably an additional

[2:40:04] Voice 10: twenty to thirty thousand dollars to create a bottle of catchment system so now they've

[2:40:11] Voice 10: potentially got forty thousand dollars into water they can sell their lot and go somewhere else and

[2:40:17] Voice 10: he doesn't get work and and that is it's not it's not facetiousness it is a problem and the rules

[2:40:27] Voice 10: and regulations that are put in place for what seems like a good idea can sometimes really come

[2:40:33] Voice 10: back to bite a lot of people and i think you really need to look very hard at that level

[2:40:39] Voice 10: shut them off last week no no

[2:40:43] Voice 13: no because if it was me i thought the community was going to get

[2:40:48] Voice 13: it all right

[2:40:51] Voice 8: just one more question along the line of drugs comments um the requirement to

[2:40:57] Voice 8: put in rainwater catchment does it require that you actually use that for your phone

[2:41:03] Voice 8: So people who have a well already, in my experience, and a lot of people at East Point,

[2:41:11] Voice 8: even models that, you know, were being exalted, continued to use their water,

[2:41:16] Voice 8: that the well, for the house, and they put in rainwater attachment to use

[2:41:21] Voice 8: for non-potable, so the outside use. Doesn't necessarily solve the problem if you're

[2:41:26] Voice 8: start using well water but so just just something there i mean it's it's different if you have a

[2:41:32] Voice 8: lot in your building house and you don't have a well and you have to prove potable water so you

[2:41:38] Voice 8: you know it has to be in the well i guess um and then having those people have the ability

[2:41:44] Voice 8: to use rainwater but for those the laws that you referred to

[2:41:49] Voice 10: i hear what you're saying but if it

[2:41:51] Voice 10: becomes a requirement that the building inspector has to pay attention to, I think it will follow

[2:41:59] Voice 10: the fact that water created through catching will of necessity be followed. And if that's the case,

[2:42:07] Voice 10: then you may have got the message. No,

[2:42:09] Voice 8: that's true. All right, moving forward.

[2:42:13] Trustee Maude: We're at page

[2:42:24] Trustee Maude: I would just

[2:42:26] Voice 12: highlight that that report or the project's report, no.

[2:42:33] Voice 4: Okay. Any

[2:42:34] Voice 12: questions, Paul?

[2:42:36] Trustee Maude: We're good, okay. We're going to trust you a lot. We'll expand

[2:42:42] Trustee Maude: your program, bring your information, adopt policies, and send it to you.

[2:42:46] Trustee Maude: admission period for your information um we always have this little boat saying local

[2:42:51] Trustee Maude: trustee committee of agents so i'm assuming no comments um we have attached an honest

[2:42:59] Trustee Maude: justice service report for your information um so we move on down to page 80 which is the

[2:43:05] Trustee Maude: dark skies principal adoption advocacy briefing which is making the round of city there's ltcs

[2:43:12] Trustee Maude: Yes.

[2:43:13] Trustee Maude: All right.

[2:43:15] Trustee Maude: Do you have something to engage about that?

[2:43:18] Trustee Maude: I'm seeing if I'm being asked to do anything here.

[2:43:25] Trustee Maude: These are literally just information.

[2:43:27] Trustee Middleton: Right.

[2:43:30] Trustee Middleton: Because the thing that this would feed into would be if

[2:43:36] Trustee Middleton: birth or criminal to this builder robert's back early engagement to limit the spread of their

[2:43:46] Trustee Middleton: their life across the street would be very very good um i think i know that industrial facilities

[2:43:54] Trustee Middleton: are now open to that type of input and have design options uh so i guess i know that we need to say

[2:44:02] Trustee Middleton: yes we support uh we support advocacy advocacy and principles we're

[2:44:12] Trustee Maude: not being asked to do that

[2:44:13] Trustee Maude: you know let me ask you that um i would suggest that it isn't insurance it is an advocacy thing

[2:44:20] this this local trust committee could undertake or

[2:44:25] Trustee Maude: you could take it to the trust council the bigger

[2:44:27] Trustee Middleton: i guess

[2:44:28] Trustee Middleton: we can wait to see what happens proceeds at trust council and um there's a question you

[2:44:34] Trustee Middleton: what

[2:44:34] Voice 5: about i'd just be interested in asking uh people in the room right now

[2:44:39] Voice 5: how they feel about it on sojourner i

[2:44:44] Voice 7: feel very strongly about it i've driven down there

[2:44:46] Voice 7: at night in that green light but certainly if there's a child cloud cover i know with

[2:44:52] Voice 7: and a couple other people have said they need their bedrooms because there's no way to it's

[2:44:59] Voice 7: dark at night anymore and it even affects me which surprises me on the other side about it

[2:45:05] Voice 7: if it's uh cloudy it's no longer deeply dark at night as i remember and i know that that is

[2:45:14] Voice 7: stressing for birds and for navigation that's really clear with prism and i would just you

[2:45:19] Voice 7: know they're gonna put those i think things in there i really wish that they some consideration

[2:45:24] Voice 7: consideration would be given to the environmental effects. We don't do well with a nighttime

[2:45:29] Voice 7: height. There's proof of that for cancer and other things. And for the wild things, their

[2:45:37] Voice 7: navigation set is complete. So, thank you from my point of view. Yes.

[2:45:44] Trustee Maude: So, let's maybe proceed with the trust council.

[2:45:47] Trustee Maude: Sure.

[2:45:49] Trustee Maude: Okay, thank you. Next up, 16.2, rates for community engagement options, policy statement

[2:45:55] Trustee Maude: amendment project there's a stat report there which basically outlines

[2:46:04] Voice 13: what's the answer on that so that's on page 84. this

[2:46:14] Voice 12: is from jason

[2:46:18] Voice 6: it's pretty straightforward just seeking direction from the ltc on

[2:46:28] Voice 4: So,

[2:46:33] Voice 13: we ask that they want

[2:46:41] Trustee Maude: you to select which option.

[2:46:45] Trustee Maude: I

[2:46:45] Voice 5: favor option two or three.

[2:46:48] Trustee Maude: Okay.

[2:46:50] Trustee Maude: So that's either the town hall during regular LTC meetings or LTC community information meeting prior to an LTC meeting.

[2:47:03] Voice 7: And what is the first option?

[2:47:05] Trustee Maude: The first one is a town hall during the meeting.

[2:47:07] Trustee Maude: And the other one is sort of a similar thing, a community information meeting prior to the LTC.

[2:47:13] Voice 5: I think probably number three is the best option, which is it's a specific thing that's advertised, et cetera, et cetera, but it is part of the LTC meetings.

[2:47:25] Voice 5: So

[2:47:26] Trustee Maude: the description is the LTC request for the applications. Community information needed

[2:47:31] Trustee Maude: to be held on regular LTC meeting days specific to the draft and policy statement. It'll be

[2:47:37] Trustee Maude: a meeting prior to

[2:47:38] Trustee Maude: the LTC meeting.

[2:47:40] Voice 5: And we could have it separately from an LTC as well, you know, to maybe do more than one

[2:47:47] Voice 5: and accommodate different timings. I assume we could do that, yeah?

[2:47:51] Voice 5: Yeah, I

[2:47:53] Voice 12: think that's number two.

[2:47:55] Voice 12: No, no, no.

[2:47:56] Trustee Maude: So, yeah, that's right.

[2:47:59] Trustee Maude: Yeah, sure.

[2:48:00] Trustee Maude: So if you wanna do an outside of an LTC meeting,

[2:48:05] Trustee Maude: I don't have to be there.

[2:48:07] Trustee Maude: So the two trustees can organize it yourself.

[2:48:10] Trustee Maude: It's not a decision-making exercise.

[2:48:14] Trustee Maude: So it's an information session.

[2:48:17] Trustee Maude: So the two trustees can organize something on a Saturday

[2:48:26] Trustee Maude: Yeah, because

[2:48:28] Trustee Maude: literally you're you're presenting information. So in receiving information more quarterly.

[2:48:33] Trustee Maude: Yeah, okay, so

[2:48:36] Trustee Middleton: I think if I make the motion that we have within 3 we can we can do it in another session if we need to with that.

[2:48:43] Trustee Middleton: Yeah. So I'll move that to turn island local trust committee select engagement option

[2:48:48] Trustee Middleton: 9.3 for phase 4, community engagement about the new draft island's trust policy statement.

[2:48:55] Trustee Middleton: Great. Secretary Trustee Boland?

[2:48:57] Voice 5: Yep.

[2:48:58] Trustee Maude: Any further discussion? Call the question, all in favor?

[2:49:03] Trustee Maude: That carries.

[2:49:04] Trustee Maude: Yeah.

[2:49:04] Trustee Maude: All right. And now hopefully we have Mr. Dingman joining us.

[2:49:12] Trustee Maude: oh he has come to the screen so we have local trust committee compliance and enforcement

[2:49:16] Trustee Maude: policy page 89. so mr neyman you're out

[2:49:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: afternoon chair um staff report uh that is being presented

[2:49:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to the ltc as in regards to a proposed bylaw compliance and enforcement policy

[2:49:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and it's for the consideration by the local trust meeting whether or not they wish to amend it

[2:49:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: as necessary and bring it forward for future consideration they do have the option if they

[2:49:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: wish to adopt it today if they are happy with the proposed policies so the the purpose of

[2:49:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: presenting this policy is to try and move to move away from standing resolutions which have been

[2:50:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: dealing with one by one issues and really present a comprehensive compliance and enforcement

[2:50:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policy that can cover all of the issues regarding notice of inspections certain policies and

[2:50:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: procedures and what the priorities of the local trust committee are and it also will deal with

[2:50:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: have language regarding vexatious complaints which has not been in policies before

[2:50:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and it also allows for discretion delegates discretion to bylaw officers regarding these files

[2:50:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And provides a definition for minor contraventions, things that, you know, the local trust committee may not wish to prioritize or deal with.

[2:50:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And so that was the intention of preparing this document for the different local trust committees.

[2:51:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Some local trust committees have had an immediate need for these policies, and so they have already adopted them.

[2:51:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Denman Islands adopted their policy.

[2:51:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Gabriel Island adopted their policy this morning, and it will be presented to a couple of other local trust committees that have expressed interest in moving forward with the policy document.

[2:51:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And then it will also continue to be reviewed by the Regional Planning Committee as we move forward with the by-law review project.

[2:51:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So the proposed policy provides some definitions, provides, states what the priorities are for the local trust committee, and your previous standing resolutions have been incorporated in your priorities.

[2:51:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: uh so one for uh not uh uh acting against short-term vacation rentals unless there's very

[2:52:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: specific circumstances uh that are occurring uh or you know also uh deferment uh for unlawful

[2:52:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: dwellings unless you have you know the complaint from an immediate neighbor or there's some other

[2:52:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: agency involved for health and safety issue um inspection that has been uh so i believe your

[2:52:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: standing resolution states uh two weeks have changed it to 30 days um that should not be any

[2:52:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: obstacle to enforcement having a notice minimum 30 days notice for the majority of issues however

[2:52:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there would be 24 hours notice if there are health and safety issues or something that may cause

[2:52:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: adverse environmental impact and result in irreversible damage.

[2:52:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Then we would go more urgent.

[2:52:59] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We would do the shorter notice period.

[2:53:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And I believe the remainder is sort of self-explanatory,

[2:53:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and a lot of it is more procedures that especially the general public

[2:53:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: We'll be able to read online and know how we're proceeding with our work.

[2:53:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It's also direction to bylaw officers.

[2:53:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So this is how we're going to proceed with enforcement on Saterna.

[2:53:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Provides, you know, direction on what communications are going to be provided to the local trust committee.

[2:53:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And, you know, if you want to provide public information sessions like the webinars,

[2:53:45] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: they've been helpful on Gabriel and Mudge especially.

[2:53:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and i think all the local trust areas would benefit from having regular webinars to answer

[2:53:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: questions about bio enforcement and to explain the process and so that is the document that has been

[2:54:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: prepared for saturn and i can take any questions that the trustees may have

[2:54:18] Voice 5: go ahead lee or i i have a question yeah

[2:54:21] Trustee Middleton: no i just uh i think um uh

[2:54:25] Trustee Middleton: the bylaw enforcement manager uh for i think that's not work here um we've not particularly

[2:54:32] Trustee Middleton: ever had much in the way of issues in regards um uh discomfort with bylaw enforcement we've

[2:54:39] Trustee Middleton: been i think grateful for its uh presence when we've had some issues and and wanted to ensure

[2:54:45] Trustee Middleton: that we have a continuing um respectful and collaborative working relationship between the

[2:54:50] Trustee Middleton: trustees staff and and um the public and and i think i paid attention to the the policies just

[2:54:59] Trustee Middleton: they they seem kind of old when i first we first began to do like the land use bylaw review they

[2:55:04] Trustee Middleton: didn't seem like they had that much attention paid to them they were very very brief and then um in

[2:55:10] Trustee Middleton: in response to working with some other communities,

[2:55:14] Trustee Middleton: Mr. Aminah, I think has learned

[2:55:16] Trustee Middleton: to where there were some other areas lacking

[2:55:19] Trustee Middleton: and he's incorporated them into this document.

[2:55:21] Trustee Middleton: I think it's great.

[2:55:22] Trustee Middleton: I think it suits our island very well.

[2:55:25] Trustee Middleton: I think there's a couple of specific issues

[2:55:29] Trustee Middleton: I think I'll get to just which we have talked about.

[2:55:33] Trustee Middleton: I think we probably need to update our reference

[2:55:36] Trustee Middleton: to short-term vacation rentals

[2:55:38] Trustee Middleton: and how enforcement happens there because the current wording which was in the standing

[2:55:44] Trustee Middleton: resolution as as the name of points out was in response to a very specific and difficult

[2:55:49] Trustee Middleton: to manage situation that we had to come up with some very specific wording about how to

[2:55:55] Trustee Middleton: how to deal with the short-term vacation rental that was repeatedly draining a community water

[2:56:02] Trustee Middleton: other system. That's my system. And so so I think, yeah, things

[2:56:12] Trustee Middleton: are changing, shifting a bit there. So we can talk about that

[2:56:14] Trustee Middleton: a separate issue. But so my general comments are, I think

[2:56:17] Trustee Middleton: it's great. I know, I have a pretty small items. But I think

[2:56:22] Trustee Middleton: in general, what I would propose is, by law enforcement is all

[2:56:27] Trustee Middleton: it would always be better the job of the by law enforcement

[2:56:29] Trustee Middleton: officer and and um and the trustees it would be made better if there's a general endorsement

[2:56:36] Trustee Middleton: and understanding of it as mr's name and just said of the the process the practice the purposes

[2:56:44] Trustee Middleton: and so i'm thinking that if we could um basically receive this um have it as a recommendation um

[2:56:53] Trustee Middleton: states be made into sort of an enabling bylaw and or um or the the the policy for saturn and

[2:57:03] Trustee Middleton: then present it or have mr neiman presented or whatever that at the community information

[2:57:08] Trustee Middleton: meeting we're already scheduling for in january just to get everyone a chance to familiarize

[2:57:14] Trustee Middleton: themselves with it get it explained to them i'd be you know ideally get buy-in and an endorsement

[2:57:20] Trustee Middleton: and then we proceed to have it read following that committee information meeting that's sort of my

[2:57:27] Trustee Middleton: rough suggestion it's not because we need to change anything but we don't i think there's

[2:57:32] Trustee Middleton: just very minor modification in regard vacation rentals and um um so yeah i'll uh

[2:57:40] Trustee Maude: turn it back

[2:57:41] Trustee Maude: to you here so do you foresee that in january bring it back yeah i think you can do it in

[2:57:49] Trustee Maude: january

[2:57:49] Voice 7: yeah i

[2:57:51] Trustee Middleton: think so i mean i i don't anticipate a lot of discuss where the discussion

[2:58:00] Trustee Middleton: will be frankly is around from vacation and the criteria uh by which enforcement is carried out

[2:58:06] Trustee Middleton: um against now that their number is seeming to increase um and they there's been issues that

[2:58:14] Trustee Middleton: So we've had communication where they've not been the most considerate neighbor.

[2:58:19] Trustee Middleton: And right now, the bylaw enforcement officers' hands are, forgive me, completely tied in those cases

[2:58:25] Trustee Middleton: because the criteria that would facilitate enforcement are so difficult to meet

[2:58:31] Trustee Middleton: that the officers just can't move in those cases.

[2:58:34] Trustee Middleton: So I'm proposing that we change that language, but I would like community input

[2:58:39] Trustee Middleton: and kind of community endorsement into some of the changes.

[2:58:43] Trustee Middleton: and the professional of course our planner and um uh and manager damon will go away and kind of

[2:58:49] Trustee Middleton: massage the language to make it actionable and that will be what we ultimately um

[2:58:55] Trustee Middleton: uh put in the linus file so

[2:59:01] Trustee Maude: the recommendations would be

[2:59:05] Trustee Maude: the local general trust committee direct staff to conduct community information

[2:59:12] Trustee Maude: So do

[2:59:15] Trustee Middleton: we need to be necessarily that formal?

[2:59:17] Trustee Middleton: I wonder if we can actually do the recommendation,

[2:59:21] Trustee Middleton: but then basically, you know,

[2:59:23] Trustee Middleton: it sets your brain for future consideration.

[2:59:28] Trustee Middleton: That consideration could be formalized

[2:59:30] Trustee Middleton: as a community information meeting,

[2:59:32] Trustee Middleton: or it could just simply be, for instance,

[2:59:36] Trustee Middleton: by the manager of England

[2:59:37] Trustee Middleton: may make a presentation on it

[2:59:39] Trustee Middleton: regarding their next meeting.

[2:59:41] Trustee Middleton: You could argue, well,

[2:59:42] Trustee Middleton: that's what he's here to do today.

[2:59:43] Trustee Middleton: And I just know that we've kind of burned a bunch of time with our some of our previous business that we might not be as fresh on this.

[2:59:51] Trustee Middleton: But I'm open to my colleagues and what you guys think in terms of moving forward.

[2:59:57] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Bowman has her hand up, so maybe she'll give us.

[3:00:00] Voice 5: Well, I think that's a great idea, Lee. I have no particular issue with this, but it is being developed as part of an overall project to review the bylaw compliance information documents, processes, procedures.

[3:00:24] Voice 5: procedures. So I'm kind of inclined to, you know, I'd like to be sure that each LTC is not

[3:00:35] Voice 5: re-tailoring it to go in different directions again, because one of the issues for a bylaw

[3:00:43] Voice 5: compliance officer was the fact that every LTC had completely different and maybe not different

[3:00:51] Voice 5: different in intent, but certainly language and document, and sometimes, you know, two pieces of

[3:00:57] Voice 5: information lodged in different places. So we are trying to converge. So in some ways, I would like

[3:01:04] Voice 5: feedback in January on the degree to which other LTCs may have made changes. For instance, you know,

[3:01:13] Voice 5: maybe what we need is for staff to draft some alternatives to the language about short-term

[3:01:20] Voice 5: vacation rentals that we can look at in January and then the other thing that I have and I would

[3:01:32] Voice 5: love to see addressed is some kind of timelines around response times so if a complaint is made

[3:01:41] Voice 5: I don't know I don't really know what's appropriate but now that we have the new software for bylaw

[3:01:48] Voice 5: and you know registration review etc um is it possible to say like for instance one of the

[3:01:58] Voice 5: significant complaints made was that files were not being closed in a timely fashion well

[3:02:05] Voice 5: you know when somebody presented the information required to achieve compliance and that review

[3:02:14] Voice 5: view and subsequent closing of the file was not happening quickly so I'm just wondering if there

[3:02:23] Voice 5: are opportunities to put in some kind of um you know measurable you know you will have a response

[3:02:32] Voice 5: within four weeks um for some of those key steps in the whole process what do you think Warren

[3:02:42] Trustee Maude: so

[3:02:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: through the chair i mean we i would say we're incredibly responsive

[3:02:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to any inquiries uh from those from the respondents those people subject to complaint

[3:02:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: um so how to set specific timelines when we respond uh see these go by case by case basis

[3:03:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: on a case-by-case basis and where yes you may have someone that'll come forward either a trust

[3:03:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: counselor at ltc and say well my why isn't my file being closed um there's probably a very good

[3:03:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: reason why the file isn't closed they in their minds they may believe they have complied but

[3:03:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the chances are they haven't and we've requested information or we've told them here's what you

[3:03:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you needed to comply and then they say no and then we're at a deadlock so trying to develop

[3:03:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: timelines to deal with certain issues I guess we could look at some type of limitation period

[3:03:51] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: by policy as to you know some older files the way other LTCs are dealing with that is like for

[3:04:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: For Maine Island, as Trustee Maude knows, we're bringing forward, here's a report on all your files.

[3:04:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So the trustees at that time can make a decision, okay, we know what the contravention is, it's been open for a couple years, we don't wish to pursue it, and then the file can be closed.

[3:04:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: For those individual respondents who have concerns about why isn't my file closed, they have staff to contact, they can contact the file officer, they can contact myself, and I can review it.

[3:04:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and then we can see whether or not we can have the file closed but generally the reason why a

[3:04:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: file isn't closed because there's no compliance so

[3:04:39] Voice 5: okay i accept that i mean it doesn't have to

[3:04:42] Voice 5: be that the file is closed i suppose it has to be that there is a dialogue and a response

[3:04:48] Voice 5: in a timely fashion and you know maybe this new portal will allow us to see the to and fro and

[3:04:58] Voice 5: the timelines around responding to people which will be more clear in terms of um you know if

[3:05:07] Voice 5: somebody says i haven't had a response or you know you haven't closed my file it would be easier to

[3:05:13] Voice 5: track that what do you think about that so

[3:05:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: through the chair i'm skeptical that this new program will

[3:05:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: will help us do that.

[3:05:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I, you know, just anecdotally,

[3:05:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: when the frustration that our FOI clerks have

[3:05:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: when someone submits an FOI request

[3:05:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: about some of these enforcement files,

[3:05:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: they're shocked at the number of emails.

[3:05:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And this is all back and forth

[3:05:39] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: between the respondent and officers and myself.

[3:05:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I mean, some of these files,

[3:05:44] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there could be a hundred emails back and forth.

[3:05:47] Voice 13: So

[3:05:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: we are absolutely responding

[3:05:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: responding to those persons who wish to have a response i mean if someone submits a complaint

[3:05:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: uh to our complaint email or the online form they're going to get a response really within 24

[3:06:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: hours and anyone who emails me with a concern about a file uh they're almost they're getting

[3:06:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: a response usually immediately but almost always within 24 hours it's really out of the ordinary

[3:06:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that someone isn't getting a response say within 48 hours okay

[3:06:26] Voice 5: that's good and so on the other ltcs

[3:06:29] Voice 5: i mean we have thankfully limited experience with complaints um do you have for instance the

[3:06:37] Voice 5: a standing item on the agenda to provide a status such as you described so you said you know on main

[3:06:46] Voice 5: you've reviewed all the cases but you know do you every month or every meeting or every you know

[3:06:54] Voice 5: once a year once every six months with an ltc review the any complaints and the status of those

[3:07:01] Voice 5: complaints yeah

[3:07:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so in section 10 of this policy it contains that provision that there'll be regular

[3:07:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: reporting as denman has adopted this maine adopted this they want in fact they may denman did it

[3:07:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: previously and maine probably did it previously too like maine hasn't adopted this policy yet

[3:07:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or a policy but they passed a standing resolution so we do this on denman now

[3:07:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: maine and years ago saturn adopted a policy we want regular reporting on the files so this

[3:07:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: document would have a policy stating we're going to deliver to you a report regarding the files

[3:07:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that we've completed investigation yeah

[3:07:47] Voice 5: you see what i would like in this is specifically i know

[3:07:52] Voice 5: that you know twice a year you report to the trust council quarterly you create an analysis

[3:08:00] Voice 5: and so i would like to see something like that the ltc will receive a regular report or a report

[3:08:06] Voice 5: twice a year something very specific because this i can see this requires us to ask you for a report

[3:08:14] Voice 5: i would like it to come to us so this

[3:08:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policy actually dictates that we will produce it

[3:08:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but the

[3:08:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: LTC does not have to request this the LTC will receive regular reporting on the files

[3:08:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so

[3:08:29] Voice 5: what do you mean by regular well

[3:08:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: for Saturna with your limited number of files

[3:08:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: uh it could be once a year I mean if you

[3:08:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: don't have any files there's nothing for us to report

[3:08:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: no but let's

[3:08:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: see what Salt Spring says every three months if you wish to do that we could

[3:08:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: report to you every three months or you could go to every six months i

[3:08:52] Voice 5: think even if we have

[3:08:55] Voice 5: very few we should have an update on the status i

[3:08:59] Trustee Middleton: think once i mean i think we should take one

[3:09:01] Trustee Middleton: step back and say we we support and very much endorse the idea that the elected representatives

[3:09:08] Trustee Middleton: are not driving and or arbitrating the bylaw complaints that's left to a bylaw um enforcement

[3:09:16] Trustee Middleton: staff or professional staff who know to kind of bring something to the attention of the

[3:09:23] Trustee Middleton: local trust committee at the relevant point of time.

[3:09:25] Trustee Middleton: And I think this policy applies that very clearly.

[3:09:28] Trustee Middleton: And what I like is that staff have clearly looked at, or monkeying around, I shouldn't

[3:09:36] Trustee Middleton: use the phrase monkeying around, but looking at different standing resolutions in terms

[3:09:41] Trustee Middleton: of how vital enforcement notification periods take place.

[3:09:45] Trustee Middleton: and i think have completely captured our intent and our intent is basically to be collaborative

[3:09:52] Trustee Middleton: uh where possible educational where possible but when that fails obviously the full mechanisms of

[3:10:01] Trustee Middleton: the of the relevant acts come into effect so i think we're fortunate in that we probably have

[3:10:07] Trustee Middleton: earned maybe the trust um of staff that we can do that because we have relatively few

[3:10:13] Trustee Middleton: few files and we've been relatively hands-off as a local trust committee in terms of trying to

[3:10:19] Trustee Middleton: you know interfere shall I say with with any any complaints and and so I think if other local

[3:10:27] Trustee Middleton: trust committees have structured things differently that's probably because of their unique experience

[3:10:33] Trustee Middleton: or whatever is going on in terms of the volume of complaints they have and so I would say I

[3:10:40] Trustee Middleton: I wouldn't seek to compare what's been presented

[3:10:42] Trustee Middleton: with other local trust committees.

[3:10:45] Trustee Middleton: I think it's very good for Saturna Island.

[3:10:48] Trustee Middleton: I think it captures what we asked for.

[3:10:50] Trustee Middleton: I'm pleased to see that the by-law team feel

[3:10:54] Trustee Middleton: that it allows them to carry out their duties

[3:10:57] Trustee Middleton: and in a practical manner.

[3:10:59] Trustee Middleton: And so as far as the reporting goes,

[3:11:02] Trustee Middleton: I mean, yeah, I agree that that would be fine

[3:11:05] Trustee Middleton: that we get updated and that we can kind of clean the shelves

[3:11:08] Trustee Middleton: of anything that's been sitting there

[3:11:09] Trustee Middleton: but too long but i think once a year is fine or as i think uh mr damon suggested we can actually

[3:11:16] Trustee Middleton: probably request the report at any time but we feel that there is uh you know some housekeeping

[3:11:21] Trustee Middleton: to do so um my feeling is that we we don't we basically um yeah we well i don't think we need

[3:11:34] Trustee Middleton: to change anything in regards to the report because it's already in the policy but i think

[3:11:38] Trustee Middleton: what we do need to change is just language around the short-term vacation rentals but i i would

[3:11:43] Trustee Middleton: suggest that what we do is we have it drafted and maybe this is a question for uh smith here

[3:11:49] Trustee Middleton: my understanding if we take the recommendation that that bylaw will actually be drafted and

[3:11:56] Trustee Middleton: actually be made available at the next um local trust committee meeting on the agenda for review

[3:12:01] Trustee Middleton: or first reading or committee information meeting however we choose to proceed or tweaks and

[3:12:07] Trustee Middleton: yeah

[3:12:07] Voice 6: and i would say that once we see the wording

[3:12:10] Trustee Middleton: specifically around short-term vacation rentals

[3:12:13] Trustee Middleton: because because frankly it's going to be what's the community wanting to put we've always had

[3:12:18] Trustee Middleton: a balance between short-term vacation rentals as accommodation after our our bmbs and our

[3:12:24] Trustee Middleton: hotel closed but what's the balance that the committee wants to see when it comes to enforcement

[3:12:29] Trustee Middleton: there um and i wouldn't want to presume language myself so i kind of want to hear from people next

[3:12:36] Trustee Middleton: next time but as far as everything else goes i think it has done exactly what we have been

[3:12:42] Trustee Middleton: requesting through our standing resolution so that's sorry for the long-winded response time

[3:12:47] Trustee Middleton: but that's uh there you have it so just

[3:12:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to clarify uh this policy uh doesn't require an enabling

[3:12:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policy to be adopted uh it's a local trust committee policy just like a standing resolution

[3:13:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: doesn't need a bylaw for it to be adopted wherever so you can adopt this policy um without

[3:13:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: doing an administrative bylaw however i know you've referenced uh the uh the inspection

[3:13:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: bylaw the bylaw that enabling bylaw that does authorize inspections of the of the private

[3:13:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: property uh if you wish to make changes to that administrative bylaw yes that would have to be

[3:13:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: drafted and then you could change the wording in that bylaw to more reflect this policy if

[3:13:38] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the local trust committee so wishes to

[3:13:42] Trustee Middleton: thank you for that input yeah that's um just for people who

[3:13:46] Trustee Middleton: the local government actor um requires uh jurisdictions to have an investment enabling

[3:13:53] Trustee Middleton: bylaws

[3:13:53] Voice 13: permits

[3:13:55] Trustee Middleton: um uh by offices to enter private property for purposes of investigating uh bylaw

[3:14:02] Trustee Middleton: complaint so it's a necessary uh tool but as mr damon just said we can actually have it match

[3:14:08] Trustee Middleton: here with our land use bylaw approach to bio enforcement so might i ask them maybe we need

[3:14:14] Trustee Middleton: to make a motion that they need such a bylaw be prepared that could go to a matching enabling

[3:14:20] Trustee Middleton: bylaw be prepared that could actually be then presented for adoption or first reading um at

[3:14:28] Trustee Middleton: the january meeting is that is that an overly onerous task or is that is that possible do you

[3:14:34] Trustee Middleton: think the

[3:14:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: question may be best answered by planner smith because that i believe that bylaw needs to

[3:14:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: be uh drafted by uh planning staff so what's the

[3:14:47] Voice 12: question so

[3:14:48] Trustee Middleton: so yeah i think there was this call

[3:14:50] Trustee Middleton: the enabling bylaw um and you know how in the standing resolution we make the

[3:14:57] Trustee Middleton: the enabling bylaw match the land use bylaw policy,

[3:15:02] Trustee Middleton: which we have given project,

[3:15:04] Trustee Middleton: how much work would that be to draft that enabling bylaw

[3:15:09] Trustee Middleton: to mesh with the land use bylaw?

[3:15:12] Trustee Middleton: And is that work possible to do by the January meeting?

[3:15:17] Trustee Middleton: And if not, that's okay,

[3:15:18] Trustee Middleton: because we're not in a rush here,

[3:15:20] Trustee Middleton: where we have no crisis situation before us.

[3:15:23] Trustee Middleton: and it's uh that's the question basically the

[3:15:29] Voice 6: word enabling bylaw i think it's it's all pretty

[3:15:32] Voice 6: much laid out there right warren yeah

[3:15:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so it is uh through the chair it's bylaw number 30

[3:15:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that is the bylaw that authorizes uh the bylaw officers to enter the as the states here to enter

[3:15:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: at all reasonable times on any property test or whether bylaws adopted by salt spring island local

[3:15:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: trust committee and or the terms of permits issued by the local trust committee are being observed

[3:15:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and it actually yeah just all it says right now at all reasonable times so this administrative

[3:16:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: bylaw could be amended to have whatever the local trust committee wishes whether it's 14 days or 30

[3:16:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: days uh notice before inspections uh occur so that it's and eventually

[3:16:15] Voice 5: it would be changed

[3:16:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: amended in the land use bylaw at some point i

[3:16:19] Voice 5: feel like i'm losing my mind here so on page 92

[3:16:23] Voice 5: it says uh saturn island land use bylaw below is authorized to enter at any reasonable time

[3:16:31] Voice 5: after giving 24 hours prior notification i feel like we've corrected the 24 to something else

[3:16:39] Voice 5: multiple times and it comes back like a specter at a feast i don't even know where that number

[3:16:47] Voice 5: exists anymore like you earlier said it was 30 days but why is 24 hours there now

[3:16:54] Voice 5: so

[3:16:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: through the chair one is so the law starts from the local government act so for actually

[3:17:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: from the community charter and the local government act about authorizing when uh bylaw

[3:17:08] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: officers or anyone else appointed to inspect a property by a regional district board can enter

[3:17:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: property so the provincial law states that a bylaw officer can enter at any reasonable time

[3:17:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: then the the local governments can then go a step further and if they want to say okay no you're

[3:17:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: going to have 24-hour notice that's what's in your land use bylaw so it's not just at any reasonable

[3:17:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: time you actually have within your land use bylaw a law that says you must give minimal 24 hours

[3:17:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: notice but the local government has discretion to change that to adopt policies so by adopting

[3:17:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: this policy you're not changing the law if you adopt it and say we want 30 days notice or if

[3:17:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you just have a standing resolution that you want 30 days notice you're not changing the law but

[3:18:01] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: You're establishing discretion by policy, which is what judges have said must happen for local government to give direction to bylaw officers.

[3:18:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: You establish this discretion by policy or a direct policy that states this is what the bylaw officer will do.

[3:18:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: You will give people a minimum of 30 days notice.

[3:18:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So there's the law, there's the community charter, local government act, and then there's your land use bylaw.

[3:18:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: which incorporates it's a console your land use bylaw is a consolidated list of bylaws

[3:18:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and regulations from these as trustee middleton has pointed out an enabling bylaw

[3:18:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and for saturn it's bylaw number 30 adopted the 1990 i believe and that

[3:18:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is the bylaw that

[3:18:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: says the the local government authorization to do the inspections

[3:18:58] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So by policy, you can set a greater period.

[3:19:03] Voice 13: Okay.

[3:19:05] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[3:19:07] Trustee Middleton: Just one of the conclusions on page 92, that that is in fact the outdated language.

[3:19:15] Trustee Middleton: Yeah.

[3:19:16] Trustee Middleton: But 5.3 is talking about in cases of irreversible environmental impact, is that there would

[3:19:23] Trustee Middleton: be a 24-hour notice period, whereas the paragraph prior talks about the 30 days.

[3:19:27] Trustee Middleton: So it is updated. There are those two different clauses. I mean, there's one I had, which I'm happy to just maybe let us down, but I will ask the manager of England about it.

[3:19:41] Trustee Middleton: In the case of a temporary use permit, the policy now basically states that entry can be added at any point.

[3:19:50] Now, I kind of understand

[3:19:51] Trustee Middleton: why to a degree, because obviously, you know, your temporary use permit is happening or violations thereof would need to be investigated in a different manner.

[3:20:04] Trustee Middleton: But I just wonder if you could maybe make a comment on why the policy does vary there.

[3:20:09] Trustee Middleton: so

[3:20:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: through the chair that was that recommendation of regional planning manager kojima so that

[3:20:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: this would be clear in this policy because you have a temporary use permit that's issued

[3:20:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that states will if you didn't have it in this policy within the temporary use permit you're

[3:20:30] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: going to have something that is contrary to this policy so he felt it was best to have this within

[3:20:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: in this policy so that the general public could read it and understand it and have the two policies

[3:20:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: set out here's what it says in your temporary use permit here's what it says in the compliance

[3:20:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and enforcement policy and there they are the same so you could not have this in there but

[3:20:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the rpm said okay he believed it should be in there to reflect that fact of what the holder

[3:21:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: of our temporary use permit must comply with um

[3:21:08] Trustee Middleton: thank you very much um could you maybe um

[3:21:13] Trustee Middleton: we just investigate what um our campaign would say if we if we made that a 24-hour period just

[3:21:23] Trustee Middleton: so that there's that and you know we're kind of getting across in our in our policy that there's

[3:21:29] Trustee Middleton: in essence this sort of notice attempt at some kind of collaborative period before uh entry onto

[3:21:36] Trustee Middleton: property um and just see what his response is if it's viable or not i mean i'm open i just um i

[3:21:42] Trustee Middleton: just know that it's we've got a that is a different uh uh i guess uh stream shall we say than we have

[3:21:53] Trustee Middleton: in the in the bulk of the policy so i'm just curious as to his response there and if we if

[3:21:59] Trustee Middleton: if we have any leeway to vary that in his opinion.

[3:22:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Oh, to the chair, I believe absolutely.

[3:22:06] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Whenever you would just change the temporary use permit policy

[3:22:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: or language to reflect that, okay, if in your temporary use permits

[3:22:14] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: you want to have 24 hours notice or whatever other time period you set,

[3:22:18] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that's what you would set it as.

[3:22:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And then this policy should reflect that.

[3:22:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: For holders of temporary use permits, okay, you're going to get 24 hours notice

[3:22:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: notice or 48 or seven days just it's about consistency that was his main concern is that

[3:22:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: he was concerned about people reading this policy and then someone getting a temporary use permit

[3:22:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that says okay they can come at any reasonable time okay

[3:22:44] Voice 13: so thank you in

[3:22:47] Voice 5: the same vein um

[3:22:51] Voice 5: i just think that this is confusing to somebody who comes at it you know i mean i'm not a complete

[3:22:57] Voice 5: amateur but you know i i'm still struggling so it would it be possible to put a note into the

[3:23:06] Voice 5: effect that the you know local government act the islands trust act uh blah blah blah these are

[3:23:15] Voice 5: superseded or are overruled by the following policy in places just make the note that when

[3:23:25] Voice 5: you read you know 24 hours go down further because in the policy it may be different

[3:23:31] Voice 5: just make make a note to the effect of what we're looking at and what the process is here

[3:23:38] Voice 5: what you described to me which is that there are the um you know the the bylaws and then this policy

[3:23:46] Voice 5: policy especially with respect to the notice period um overrides that am i making sense

[3:23:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: sort of through the chair so it doesn't this policy doesn't override any law

[3:24:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: it doesn't change

[3:24:04] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: law it doesn't override any law but the notice period

[3:24:07] Voice 5: has changed

[3:24:08] Voice 5: yeah but

[3:24:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that's it's just a policy so the law is not changed the policy from the ltc

[3:24:17] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: says you will staff you will do this we will give 30 days notice there are ways you can amend your

[3:24:23] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: land use bylaw and the enabling bylaw so that says that that will be a lengthier process okay i don't

[3:24:30] Voice 5: want to do that but i want to notice that explains to people that while in the bylaw it says 24 hours

[3:24:37] Voice 5: prior notification the policy instructs that it should be 30 days okay

[3:24:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so you want stronger

[3:24:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: language to make that clear stronger language that's in 5.2 i

[3:24:56] Voice 5: don't see language that explains

[3:24:58] Voice 5: that at all unless i'm gone blind and or stupid it just provides references and then goes on and

[3:25:08] Voice 5: in 5.2 it provides a minimum notice of 30 days whereas you know in

[3:25:18] Voice 5: In the reference, i.e. Saterna Island Land Use By-law, it says 24 hours, but there's no real...

[3:25:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So what R.P.M. Kojima did, what he did in this, when he changed this, 5.2, at the end it says 30 days notice despite section 1.4.1 of the LUB.

[3:25:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So if you're saying we want better language, I guess we can work on trying to find better language.

[3:25:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: but that's why

[3:25:48] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: he put in that despite that section here's the

[3:25:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policy how

[3:25:53] Voice 5: about putting in uh despite

[3:25:56] Voice 5: saturn the full saturn island land use bylaw number 119 section 1.4.2 that'd be great

[3:26:08] Trustee Middleton: and this does raise an interesting point i i had made the assumption that we would

[3:26:14] Trustee Middleton: make our standing resolutions go away by actually revising the relevant bylaws which

[3:26:19] Trustee Middleton: is obviously the land use bylaw and the enabling bylaw um and i i so i know that uh um that that

[3:26:32] Trustee Middleton: makes adjustment to our um enforcement policies and procedures more difficult um down the road

[3:26:42] Trustee Middleton: i guess what i'm thinking is one thing i'd like to see in trying to buy law is the notification

[3:26:47] Trustee Middleton: period. The other policies in regard to exatious complaints and such, can they stand, can we

[3:26:54] Trustee Middleton: have, I guess there's one question of, and it could be a plan of strength as well, can

[3:26:58] Trustee Middleton: we modify our land use bylaw and the enabling bylaw to enshrine the notification period

[3:27:08] Trustee Middleton: details, but the policy stands outside of the bylaws and talks about, you know, the

[3:27:14] Trustee Middleton: the discretion that the bylaw officer has in terms of uh illegitimate complaints or

[3:27:19] Trustee Middleton: vexatious complaints we don't have to actually enshrine that in the land use bylaw or we do we

[3:27:24] Trustee Middleton: will no

[3:27:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: i don't through the chair i don't believe you do have to do that at all policy it's a

[3:27:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: completely separate document when trust council changes the trust council policies there are no

[3:27:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: bylaw changes there's no administrative bylaw changes they just consider that policy and they

[3:27:42] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: they adopt it so this policy can be adopted changed amended easily it doesn't require

[3:27:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: any bylaw changes although for the future yes if the local trustee wants to move away from

[3:27:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: a the bylaw 30 which actually doesn't have any type of a notice period to a set period to reflect

[3:28:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: policy for everyone's benefit then i guess it would be a benefit to amend that bylaw 30.

[3:28:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So

[3:28:14] Trustee Maude: one thing I noted on page 91, part A, 2.0 definitions and abbreviations, the first one there, it's got file enforcement notice, which I don't think applies to Saterra.

[3:28:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: You're absolutely correct. That should have been deleted.

[3:28:30] Trustee Maude: I am correct. Mark the moment.

[3:28:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: so we are of course we work from the template we are trying to work from the template and make

[3:28:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: minimal changes but uh that's one reason why all of these policies will not have the same wording

[3:28:47] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: just for that fact uh some 10 local trust areas have uh been bylaws so that's one reason why

[3:28:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: there's going to be language changes is just for that fact and yes that'll have to be deleted

[3:29:03] Voice 13: I

[3:29:04] Voice 11: would suggest that it refer to the community information meeting, which then put it into

[3:29:19] Voice 11: the main meeting for the finalization.

[3:29:22] Voice 11: More importantly, what we're doing is educating the people that you guys are making a decision

[3:29:28] Voice 11: decision, and it puts information out there so more people know, which will make it easier

[3:29:34] Voice 11: for the bylaws inspector when he arrives.

[3:29:37] Voice 11: Absolutely.

[3:29:39] Trustee Maude: Yeah.

[3:29:40] Trustee Maude: So are we in support of this right now?

[3:29:43] Trustee Maude: I mean, I

[3:29:44] Trustee Middleton: have no idea.

[3:29:46] Trustee Middleton: I think it's great work.

[3:29:48] Trustee Middleton: I'm pretty happy with it.

[3:29:49] Trustee Middleton: I think this is the solution for us, how we parse it between the bylaws and enshrine elements

[3:29:54] Trustee Middleton: of it.

[3:29:55] Trustee Middleton: I'm open for further discussion.

[3:29:58] Trustee Middleton: session, I don't know.

[3:30:00] Trustee Middleton: we can get it to the point where we have bylaws for first reading in January.

[3:30:05] Trustee Middleton: So I guess I'm open to having an educational hearing session specifically on the, because

[3:30:15] Trustee Middleton: the area where we do need to be the input is the short-term vacation rental criteria.

[3:30:21] Trustee Middleton: If we do that in January, and then we basically issue directive to staff to go and draft the

[3:30:27] Trustee Middleton: relevant bylaws following the january meeting i'm i'm thinking that that probably gives us time to

[3:30:33] Trustee Middleton: achieve everything we want to achieve here but we

[3:30:36] Trustee Maude: want to motion for staff to attend

[3:30:43] Trustee Maude: an information session on the bylaw enforcement policy or specifically to short-term vacation

[3:30:53] Trustee Maude: Do we have to tell them what to do?

[3:30:56] Trustee Middleton: Yes.

[3:30:57] Trustee Middleton: Well, I'm wondering if I'm not to, you know, very much appreciated by the unfortunate manager

[3:31:05] Trustee Middleton: David making his time better the last time when they have to move the meeting and this

[3:31:08] Trustee Middleton: time, I'm not sure we need him to make, I mean, it would be helpful, I guess, because

[3:31:13] Trustee Middleton: of the language.

[3:31:14] Trustee Middleton: But I guess actually the language, what would help the community is sort of the criteria

[3:31:18] Trustee Middleton: criteria by which they want to see enforcement against short-term vacation rentals.

[3:31:23] Trustee Middleton: The specific language of course is that it's over to management and planner Smith to enshrine

[3:31:30] Trustee Middleton: because that's their expertise.

[3:31:32] Trustee Middleton: So they'll hear from us the intent of the community and then they can go in and make

[3:31:37] Trustee Middleton: that intent real in the policy.

[3:31:40] Trustee Middleton: So you don't

[3:31:41] Trustee Maude: need a staff presentation?

[3:31:42] Trustee Middleton: No, I don't think so.

[3:31:43] Trustee Maude: The local trust committee will put the information out and there's solicit feedback.

[3:31:46] Trustee Middleton: back yeah i think i think so that's that i mean i'm open to suggestions otherwise from him or

[3:31:52] Trustee Middleton: claude smith or or you guys just what i'm thinking is the most kind of time efficient

[3:31:58] Trustee Middleton: less a kind of free-ranging discussion that the committee happened around short-term vacation

[3:32:02] Trustee Middleton: rentals and then we could go on back to the business of tracking the the policy of the

[3:32:08] Trustee Middleton: and the land use bylaws following that meeting actually trustee paul's going to end

[3:32:13] Trustee Middleton: uh

[3:32:14] Voice 5: no i'm fine with everything you've said and i just wanted to add one thing with respect to this

[3:32:20] Voice 5: sort of um rat's nest of you know the policy to enforce the policy to enable the bylaw

[3:32:29] Voice 5: i would really love um maybe planner kojima who seems to be trying for consistency like with a

[3:32:38] Voice 5: blank sheet of paper in front of him does he have a recommendation with respect to how you would do

[3:32:43] Voice 5: this um maybe he doesn't but i just want to ask is there something he would recommend in terms of

[3:32:51] Voice 5: the flow and minimizing the number of documents you have to achieve the end goal like you know

[3:32:59] Voice 5: that by law 30 do we really need it if we did something different could we just wipe that out

[3:33:06] Voice 5: that sort of thing so that would be my request to planner kajima but other than that i'm happy

[3:33:14] Voice 5: with the community information meeting in january and the fact that the planners would draft

[3:33:20] Voice 5: some variation on the short-term vacation rental issue thank

[3:33:29] Voice 13: you so

[3:33:31] Trustee Maude: is there any more direction

[3:33:37] Trustee Maude: because it's not like you're needed?

[3:33:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Well, it's up to the Local Trust Committee.

[3:33:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: What we did for Gabriola is we did a couple of webinars.

[3:33:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Also did a webinar for North Pender

[3:33:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to provide information about just file enforcement in general

[3:33:52] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and the proposed policy document.

[3:33:57] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Especially on Gabriola and Mudge, they found it very helpful.

[3:34:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So that is something that we can arrange

[3:34:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: specifically for Saturna.

[3:34:05] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: hopefully there'll be an interest and that way we'll get community feedback

[3:34:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: uh regarding this uh the proposed policies why

[3:34:15] Trustee Middleton: don't we um it sounds like

[3:34:18] Trustee Middleton: um there's an interest to do that so why don't we why don't we see we schedule that through

[3:34:24] Trustee Middleton: january that broke the webinar um that manager damon just talked about that i'm sure that'll

[3:34:29] Trustee Middleton: be useful to for everyone to and um

[3:34:34] Trustee Maude: so the motion basically has been sat and requested to arrange a

[3:34:37] Trustee Maude: webinar yeah

[3:34:39] Trustee Middleton: webinar on the proposed uh biological policy for saturn does that work for you yes chair

[3:34:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: absolutely

[3:34:50] Voice 6: sorry chair through the chair that is my only follow-up action is for you to arrange

[3:34:58] Voice 6: Arrange that webinar?

[3:34:59] Voice 6: I think it is now, yeah, it is.

[3:35:02] Voice 6: So by law enforcement stop to arrange webinar

[3:35:04] Voice 6: on what's proposed.

[3:35:06] Voice 6: On proposed, yeah.

[3:35:09] Trustee Maude: So you've got a note, do you need a motion to that effect?

[3:35:13] Voice 6: I think a motion would be good to address.

[3:35:16] Trustee Maude: Yeah, I

[3:35:16] Voice 6: trust your manager to do.

[3:35:20] Voice 6: Okay.

[3:35:21] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, so I move that that's the staff arranging

[3:35:28] Trustee Middleton: a webinar for the january saturn ltc meeting um the proposed

[3:35:44] Trustee Middleton: okay all right that's slightly different well i mean we could have a separate

[3:35:50] Trustee Middleton: i think it's it's

[3:35:53] Voice 7: a webinar for me that you'll show it up

[3:35:55] Voice 7: Do

[3:35:56] Trustee Middleton: you know what I'm thinking here?

[3:35:59] Trustee Middleton: Sorry, I didn't realize that the webinar was sort of a separate style.

[3:36:03] Trustee Middleton: Why don't we have a genuine meeting, get the feedback from everyone about short-term vacation,

[3:36:07] Trustee Middleton: right to what we propose to do, then get it enshrined into sort of a more finished policy,

[3:36:14] Trustee Middleton: and then we can have a webinar on that finished policy and by-law enforcement procedures.

[3:36:20] Trustee Middleton: Because, as I said, I'm not compelling to drag our feet, but we don't have a crisis situation.

[3:36:25] Trustee Middleton: with bylaw enforcement and we're not in iraq and afford to take the time to you know fit in with

[3:36:30] Trustee Middleton: everyone's schedules and it's just key really what does the community want when it comes to

[3:36:36] Trustee Middleton: short-term vacation rentals we just need to hear that

[3:36:38] Voice 7: question i just want i i love the feedback

[3:36:42] Voice 7: and i just want it to be saturnas specific and allow us the flexibility this community feels

[3:36:51] Voice 7: else that it means no

[3:36:53] Voice 11: motion to go forward should it be referring to january yeah

[3:36:58] Trustee Middleton: we can exactly

[3:36:59] Trustee Middleton: we'll uh luckily no one second is so we can uh okay no

[3:37:07] Voice 12: that's great i

[3:37:08] Trustee Maude: i i'm i'm happy with that

[3:37:10] Trustee Maude: thank you yeah so the referral will be it it will be that the staff the uh staff report on the

[3:37:16] Trustee Maude: a violent compliance enforcement policy

[3:37:19] Trustee Maude: be referred to the January Local Trust Committee meeting?

[3:37:25] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I don't know if we need to state

[3:37:28] Trustee Middleton: that we're looking for input from the community

[3:37:31] Trustee Middleton: into short-term potential rental enforcement policy

[3:37:33] Trustee Middleton: or if that's just understood.

[3:37:35] Voice 6: So you could have a CIM with trustee,

[3:37:38] Voice 6: or a trustee

[3:37:39] Voice 6: that you have upgraded or downgraded.

[3:37:42] Voice 6: Downgraded.

[3:37:47] Voice 6: If you want to present briefly as a CIM, if you want to have two CIMs, it's totally fine for two topics, and we can advertise for both.

[3:37:57] Voice 6: You know,

[3:37:57] Trustee Middleton: I think the more I'm educated here, the more benefit I get.

[3:38:03] Trustee Middleton: I think that makes sense to actually have a manager

[3:38:07] Trustee Middleton: in England present some options perhaps around enforcement

[3:38:11] Trustee Middleton: or policy when it comes to short-term vacation rental

[3:38:14] Trustee Middleton: because we have just a general sense

[3:38:17] Trustee Middleton: and we have only a very limited experience here on Saturna

[3:38:20] Trustee Middleton: whereas, of course, manager in England

[3:38:22] Trustee Middleton: has got experience with the whole cross area.

[3:38:23] Trustee Middleton: So if he wouldn't find that too burdensome to present

[3:38:27] Trustee Middleton: said, as part of the CIM, opt-ins for by-law enforcement

[3:38:34] Trustee Middleton: age or, yeah, I guess we'll have to say that,

[3:38:38] Trustee Middleton: short-term vacation rentals.

[3:38:41] Voice 11: Against by-law.

[3:38:42] Voice 11: It's a by-law enforcement.

[3:38:44] Voice 11: It isn't specific to wine.

[3:38:45] Voice 11: It's specific to everything.

[3:38:49] Voice 11: By-law enforcement officers, it's done

[3:38:51] Trustee Middleton: all the whole thing.

[3:38:53] Trustee Middleton: No, no, no.

[3:38:53] Trustee Middleton: We're talking about policy referencing short-term vacation

[3:38:56] Trustee Middleton: rentals here.

[3:38:57] Trustee Middleton: on the other policies where i think we're we're we're going to um you know be able to read this

[3:39:05] Trustee Middleton: part of the information package but we want specifically the criteria because because we

[3:39:11] Trustee Middleton: have now very strict criteria about how a bylaw enforcement officer can pursue a file against uh

[3:39:19] Trustee Middleton: an stvr and it just doesn't work in my opinion anymore and so but we do want to respect the

[3:39:26] Trustee Middleton: fact that there's sometimes it's very hard in this complex context of a bylaw to say that there's uh

[3:39:35] Trustee Middleton: you know you either are a lawful operator or not and we don't have any criteria to say what's

[3:39:40] Trustee Middleton: lawful and what's not but we've had in the past people who have not created an adverse impact in

[3:39:47] Trustee Middleton: the community while operating stvr's and can we risk can we i mean by recording a lot of

[3:39:57] Trustee Middleton: but by policy potentially we can and this is where the challenge currently

[3:40:01] Trustee Middleton: management is to to show us are there all maybe there aren't maybe we have to have a bottom line

[3:40:07] Trustee Middleton: by the way as you're suggesting but

[3:40:09] Trustee Maude: um so mr damon is that clear or are there probably enough

[3:40:14] Trustee Maude: not for you to proceed with i'm

[3:40:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: clear on what's expected right now yes okay

[3:40:19] Trustee Maude: so and again are we

[3:40:22] Trustee Maude: needing a motion to enable this or is it noted down enough for i'm

[3:40:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: actually good what i'm hearing

[3:40:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: is that there's a meeting in january an information meeting they'd like me to attend and i'll be able

[3:40:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: to speak to this policy document and i will have an stbr policy developed for saturn

[3:40:40] Voice 7: very much

[3:40:42] Trustee Middleton: a couple

[3:40:44] Voice 7: of suggestions

[3:40:45] Voice 7: it

[3:40:46] Trustee Middleton: still won't be

[3:40:47] Trustee Middleton: it's still available for public input

[3:40:49] Trustee Middleton: through the normal process of

[3:40:51] Trustee Middleton: local trust community

[3:40:52] Trustee Middleton: I thought

[3:40:53] Voice 7: you suggested that Mr. Dingman come up

[3:40:55] Voice 7: with a couple of alternative

[3:40:57] Voice 7: wordings to capture

[3:40:59] Voice 7: the situation

[3:41:01] Voice 7: with SDVOs

[3:41:03] Voice 7: no?

[3:41:04] Voice 7: yes

[3:41:06] Trustee Middleton: Yes. I'm happy with that. That's the base of the suggestion from the floor was that could there be presented a couple of options in regard to policy to enforce.

[3:41:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Yes, Chair, we will be able to. We have a number of different policies developed from other local trust areas who've had major issues with STDRs.

[3:41:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So I'll be able to

[3:41:29] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: present a couple of options to the LTC regarding how they would like to proceed with enforcement.

[3:41:34] Trustee Maude: Excellent.

[3:41:34] Trustee Maude: very good all right so we can move on so we'll be back in a few minutes um so we have um upcoming

[3:41:46] Trustee Maude: meetings so we've got a list of dates suggested for 2025 my goodness so i'm assuming you've had

[3:41:57] Trustee Maude: a chance to review those dates and there's no conflicts or anything well i can't guarantee

[3:42:03] Trustee Maude: to do that but we have

[3:42:06] Voice 5: to start with something yeah

[3:42:07] Trustee Maude: so our next meeting is january the 16th 2025.

[3:42:16] Voice 6: can you also uh adopt your regular meeting schedule is what lisa needs so she needs a

[3:42:25] Voice 6: regulation adopting all of these proposed dates for now of course you can change them later if

[3:42:30] Voice 6: need to but for now which is something in our calendar in our community she's seeking out for

[3:42:37] Voice 6: all of the okay

[3:42:39] Voice 5: i'll read the match just like no so

[3:42:43] Trustee Maude: there's there's the resolution is there

[3:42:45] Trustee Maude: on a second page like a page two of our agenda at the bottom under 17.5 the so the smoke the

[3:42:53] Trustee Maude: back up right go do you want me to make it more

[3:42:58] Trustee Middleton: important yeah

[3:42:59] Voice 5: yeah go go ahead yeah yeah that's

[3:43:01] Trustee Middleton: the journal of the trust committee about the 2025 2026 regular meeting schedule for the next fiscal

[3:43:07] Trustee Middleton: year as proposed by sam just

[3:43:11] Voice 6: to clarify the reasons that january is in there now so we're

[3:43:13] Voice 6: now going to a fiscal schedule with our meetings rather than rather than the powers i

[3:43:19] Voice 12: second the

[3:43:21] Voice 5: motion yeah

[3:43:22] Trustee Maude: so i'll take second any further discussion call a question all in favor yes

[3:43:28] Trustee Maude: so now we have a final town hall sorry

[3:43:33] Voice 8: just a couple of points uh hopefully for the community

[3:43:38] Voice 8: information meeting especially for the one on housing uh if you have a associated with the

[3:43:44] Voice 8: local trust uh meeting it's during the week and it is something that's when all the people

[3:43:51] Voice 8: have the most interest in the people who are working the living in the south and looking for

[3:43:55] Voice 8: rental accommodations and so um if you hope to have any kind of turnout i think you absolutely

[3:44:03] Voice 8: have to have it uh probably in the weekend um we

[3:44:07] Trustee Maude: really we frankly we really struggle with this

[3:44:10] Trustee Maude: because we had that feedback on north pendant and so we scheduled a special meeting on saturday

[3:44:17] Trustee Maude: And what was it like? Four people showed up?

[3:44:20] Voice 6: There was a little bit. Ten maybe?

[3:44:23] Trustee Maude: Yeah, but it was a BC Hydro meeting also.

[3:44:25] Voice 6: Oh, yeah.

[3:44:25] Trustee Maude: And so it

[3:44:26] Trustee Maude: was Hydro finished.

[3:44:27] Voice 6: That was the only one we just did.

[3:44:29] Trustee Maude: It was

[3:44:30] Voice 6: a little bit.

[3:44:30] Trustee Maude: A little better last time we did.

[3:44:32] Trustee Maude: But for a high population, we didn't seem to attract many people on a Saturday.

[3:44:38] Trustee Maude: I don't

[3:44:39] Voice 8: know, but you're not going to be able to attract people during the day.

[3:44:46] Voice 8: so kids in school so i don't know um you can put that in the community or whatever

[3:44:53] Voice 8: there's got to be a solution if you're really going to get input from people

[3:44:57] Voice 8: um it's going to have to be different but

[3:44:59] Voice 7: i cannot do it

[3:45:00] Voice 7: The other thing is how can we get people to get there?

[3:45:03] Voice 7: This is, you know, all people coming from.

[3:45:05] Voice 7: This is

[3:45:08] Trustee Maude: what everyone was thinking.

[3:45:10] Trustee Maude: So

[3:45:10] Voice 7: I think the answer to your question,

[3:45:12] Voice 11: is it possible that this meeting

[3:45:15] Voice 11: right today could be on Zoom?

[3:45:19] Voice 11: Yes. Yeah.

[3:45:21] Voice 13: Well,

[3:45:21] Voice 11: we're going to go on Zoom for all the people.

[3:45:25] Voice 11: Well, all the people.

[3:45:28] Voice 8: The housing budget, as I said, is the people that we really need to hear from are the people who are, you know, working and, you know, needing rental accommodation and stuff like that. So I think the timing is, I don't know, do you have an evening? I don't know.

[3:45:48] Voice 8: whatever you're going to do but i

[3:45:49] Voice 8: think you are automatically going to exclude a whole bunch

[3:45:54] Voice 8: and if you have the option of 30 people that can't go with that yeah

[3:45:58] Voice 8: it doesn't require you can have a community information meeting with

[3:46:03] Voice 8: that stuff so without you um so i that's something for you to talk about maybe it

[3:46:10] Voice 8: doesn't have to be too evident the other point i wanted to make um is in reference to requiring um

[3:46:18] Voice 8: water catchment um i think you might want to look at whether that extends across the island

[3:46:27] Voice 8: or whether you exclude the a lot of harbor blue code water system people um because they are um

[3:46:38] Voice 8: i'm just going to say they're required to have hookups they don't have to but they're paying

[3:46:43] Voice 8: for them and so it's not the same impetus but the rainwater catchment is designed to protect

[3:46:50] Voice 8: groundwater and to use less of it um and the law of the bucco water system is not using groundwater

[3:46:57] Voice 8: so it's still i mean people can be encouraged to have rainwater catchment to use for their

[3:47:03] Voice 8: gardens and stuff like that um but i think it would be you might get some opposition to requiring

[3:47:16] Voice 1: I

[3:47:16] Voice 7: think for six for the store so we're talking 600 bucks each what

[3:47:23] Trustee Middleton: I would say is that that's

[3:47:25] Trustee Middleton: exactly what we're going to be hearing at the community information meeting uh in January and

[3:47:30] Trustee Middleton: this community information meeting as crafted by staff is a kind of a fairly well interlocking set

[3:47:37] Trustee Middleton: set of policies that relate to the groundwater mapping and how that informed the implementation

[3:47:48] Trustee Middleton: of the secondary suite bylaws.

[3:47:51] Trustee Middleton: I think that's really what we're going to be focusing on at the CIM.

[3:47:55] Trustee Middleton: And then next, in January, we can say, okay, is there an appetite for broader housing discussion?

[3:48:00] Trustee Middleton: and we can then brainstorm a weekend meeting, what have you, for sure.

[3:48:07] Voice 13: All right, thank you.

[3:48:08] Voice 5: So I just had a thought about meetings and formats.

[3:48:14] Voice 5: I mean, what if we have a community information meeting during the day,

[3:48:19] Voice 5: as usual, but we actually said it will definitely happen

[3:48:22] Voice 5: between 12 and 1.30 or whatever.

[3:48:25] Voice 5: so people could like we'd have to have a very specific time slot and stick to it

[3:48:31] Voice 5: and then if we went with whatever happened then because there would be maps you know etc

[3:48:40] Voice 5: and then run a zoom session maybe you know a few days a week later and maybe the people who come

[3:48:48] Voice 5: to the physical face-to-face could take on some responsibility with regard to communicating

[3:48:55] Voice 5: and facilitating that online meeting because you wouldn't have the same you know freedom to walk

[3:49:04] Voice 5: around etc but what about that because you know have a face-to-face uh that's the initial meeting

[3:49:12] Voice 5: and then have an online for others

[3:49:16] Voice 5: with some of the people from the face-to-face

[3:49:19] Voice 5: to facilitate it.

[3:49:20] Voice 5: And that would bring the community aspect into it.

[3:49:25] Trustee Maude: Well, certainly options are available

[3:49:27] Trustee Maude: if people trust me to just work together

[3:49:29] Trustee Maude: and figure out what works best for your community

[3:49:32] Trustee Maude: and we'll do our best to facilitate it.

[3:49:37] Trustee Maude: Okay.

[3:49:38] Trustee Maude: So keeping an eye on the clock,

[3:49:41] Trustee Maude: i think we need to close the meeting and can

[3:49:45] Voice 7: i have a couple short questions sure um

[3:49:48] Voice 7: did we uh block his automation of block 180 and 181 at east point website

[3:49:56] Voice 7: do i have that right yeah that is they are asking for a variance right

[3:50:04] Voice 6: they are they for today they approved a development permit to extend their proposed

[3:50:09] Voice 6: proposed gap into the cliff DP and they are will need to if they want to consolidate the lot and

[3:50:17] Voice 6: have the house across both lot boundaries and the house size and structure size exceeds the

[3:50:23] Voice 6: lot coverage of the when it's combined lots so they will need development variants from either

[3:50:29] Voice 6: the board of variants or the local trust committee to allow them to have a more floor area that is

[3:50:36] Voice 6: permitted by the bylaw what

[3:50:39] Voice 7: is he said very generous what what is it for one house twenty

[3:50:44] Voice 6: percent for a lot of coverage so uh in this case over twenty percent of the amalgamated

[3:50:51] Voice 6: lot will be covered by house stands what's the

[3:50:54] Voice 8: square footage of the house

[3:50:58] Trustee Middleton: it's because there's a garage attacked by breezeway so it basically adds to the square

[3:51:04] Trustee Middleton: footage

[3:51:04] Voice 12: of that house square

[3:51:05] Trustee Middleton: feet nine

[3:51:07] Voice 8: thousand but

[3:51:08] Trustee Middleton: that's normally you would build out buildings

[3:51:10] Trustee Middleton: would all the other they're out there large a building is counted as square footage of the

[3:51:17] Trustee Middleton: house because it's drawn by every swing normally

[3:51:19] Voice 13: that would be and i

[3:51:21] Voice 5: think that includes the deck

[3:51:24] Voice 5: as well i think that's the deck the house and the garage square footage it's kind of inappropriate

[3:51:31] Trustee Middleton: appropriate for us to get it. It's not an application before

[3:51:33] Trustee Middleton: us. Yeah. So they

[3:51:37] Voice 6: wouldn't be seeking variance on the house

[3:51:38] Voice 6: size in relation to outside limits in relation to lot

[3:51:43] Voice 6: coverage, which is like a 3d.

[3:51:45] Trustee Middleton: Exactly. It sounds different.

[3:51:48] Trustee Middleton: And until it's actually comes forward, and whatever, still

[3:51:51] Trustee Middleton: you have a question.

[3:51:57] Voice 7: My question, my comment on that is always what does that look

[3:52:00] Voice 7: like from the water i i haven't written a bio biologist report or an ecologist report

[3:52:09] Voice 13: it's

[3:52:09] Trustee Middleton: in the yeah it's in there you can see a part of the house if interested in the

[3:52:15] Trustee Middleton: in the

[3:52:16] Trustee Middleton: package thank

[3:52:17] Voice 7: you so and my second question to you is um the oap that we currently have

[3:52:24] Voice 7: with the four units right um is uh jock's lot is that in the alr you happen to know because

[3:52:35] Voice 7: we have that consideration of there being the possibility of uh we have the ability to develop

[3:52:41] Voice 7: four more units i

[3:52:43] Trustee Middleton: do not recall the last time i had discussion with him i know the remaining

[3:52:51] Trustee Middleton: part of the existing OEP law is in the ALR.

[3:52:56] Voice 7: And is that

[3:52:57] Voice 7: headed east from what's there already?

[3:53:02] Voice 7: Yeah.

[3:53:03] Voice 13: Okay.

[3:53:04] Voice 13: Yeah.

[3:53:05] Voice 7: Thank you very much.

[3:53:06] Voice 7: Thank you so much.

[3:53:10] Trustee Maude: If

[3:53:11] Trustee Middleton: you want to read out the motion.

[3:53:13] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[3:53:13] Trustee Middleton: Sure.

[3:53:14] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[3:53:16] Trustee Middleton: I didn't actually download.

[3:53:17] Trustee Middleton: Is there a closed agenda?

[3:53:19] Trustee Middleton: this is this room um

[3:53:21] Voice 5: can i just ask something uh brad has disappeared but what do we did we agree

[3:53:29] Voice 5: something with respect to this survey the housing survey uh doing some work to prepare that maybe i

[3:53:37] Voice 5: can talk to brad about it because we could bring a draft to that community information meeting as

[3:53:44] Voice 5: well yeah

[3:53:45] Trustee Maude: offline you can talk to brad about that okay

[3:53:50] Voice 12: so

[3:53:51] Trustee Maude: you're not there to stop to do that

[3:53:53] Trustee Middleton: that might have to wait until part of our response in january in terms of what we want to do as far

[3:54:01] Trustee Middleton: as uh engaging any other housing offerings we

[3:54:05] Voice 6: should also point out that you know how the

[3:54:08] Voice 6: of like the trust of the people that are working on a broader budget assessment, broader needs

[3:54:14] Voice 6: project. So it's not as community specific as the one I've got. There is a risk of survey burnout

[3:54:21] Voice 6: as well. So just as of

[3:54:24] Voice 12: today, I want the record to just serve. That's what I understand. I think

[3:54:40] I just think keeping the distinction between the work of

[3:54:45] Trustee Middleton: the housing options project that's

[3:54:47] Trustee Middleton: currently proposed and the CIM versus a broader discussion about housing is probably keep

[3:54:54] Trustee Middleton: those separate and be more useful.

[3:54:57] Trustee Middleton: All right, I'm going to make a motion that the meeting be closed to the public in accordance

[3:55:01] Trustee Middleton: through the committee program for division three section 91f for the purpose of considering law

[3:55:08] Trustee Middleton: enforcement yeah unfortunately the council has considered that disclosure could reasonably be

[3:55:15] Trustee Middleton: expected to harm the conduct of an investigation under or enforcement of an enactment and that the

[3:55:22] Trustee Middleton: record and staff attend the meeting i

[3:55:25] Voice 5: second that call

[3:55:26] Trustee Maude: a question so all right so we have

[3:55:33] Trustee Maude: the resume for the camera meeting um so somebody wants to make a motion to adjourn we will adjourn

[3:55:40] Trustee Maude: I so move

[3:55:41] Trustee Maude: second

[3:55:42] Trustee Maude: all in favor we are adjourned

[3:55:46] Trustee Maude: and we will see you all in January

[3:55:48] Trustee Maude: thank

[3:55:49] Voice 5: you everyone

[3:55:50] Voice 5: thank

[3:55:50] Trustee Maude: you very much

[3:55:51] Voice 5: thanks Carla

[3:55:53] Voice 5: thank you for allowing me to

[3:55:55] Voice 5: participate