Islands Trust Council regular meeting, January 30, 2025

[0:00:05] Voice 12: Fantastic. Good evening, everyone, trustees, staff, and members of the public who might be watching.

[0:00:13] Voice 12: This is the second attempt to schedule the Committee of the Whole.

[0:00:19] Voice 12: Oh, apologies, Trustee Borthwick.

[0:00:22] Voice 12: Nope, that was an errant hand.

[0:00:25] Voice 12: So this is a meeting of the Committee of the Whole to discuss the policy statement.

[0:00:31] Voice 12: we attempted to have this meeting on January 30th and did not reach quorum so this is now we have

[0:00:40] Voice 12: reached quorum thank you to all trustees who've come so as always I want to begin with an

[0:00:46] Voice 12: acknowledgement that we are meeting across Coast Salish territories gathering in lands and waters

[0:00:53] Voice 12: that have been stewarded and have connections and relationships with peoples who have been here

[0:01:00] Voice 12: since time immemorial. We are mindful that we are not the first and we are not the only stewards of

[0:01:07] Voice 12: these lands and waters so as we make decisions we want to honour Coast Salish peoples who maintain

[0:01:14] Voice 12: their relationship and connection here today. And so as we do this work we are going to work to

[0:01:21] Voice 12: uphold principles of respect, reciprocity, relationship, reconciliation and support

[0:01:28] Voice 12: indigenous resurgence

[0:01:30] Voice 15: so

[0:01:32] Voice 12: we have an agenda before us apologies again that there were a few changes

[0:01:41] Voice 12: we're leaving off the minutes from the previous two meetings for a future committee of the whole

[0:01:46] Voice 12: to adopt

[0:01:47] Voice 15: I think

[0:01:51] Voice 12: we have thank

[0:01:52] Voice 10: you

[0:01:55] Voice 15: so

[0:02:00] Voice 12: is there yes I'll take it by the general consent that will

[0:02:05] Voice 12: approve the agenda unless there's any amendments you want to raise your hands my suggestion is

[0:02:16] Voice 12: that we move through the agenda as presented we have a number of trustees

[0:02:21] Voice 12: who've sent in motions for recommendations in the policy changes to

[0:02:26] Voice 12: the policy I wanted to start with trustee fasts you had an amendment for

[0:02:32] Voice 12: cooperation principle 2.2 and then we'll get into the housing policies where we

[0:02:39] Voice 12: We left off from the January 8th meeting, and so we've received policy amendments from

[0:02:49] Voice 12: Trustee Boland, Trustee Fast, and myself, and we'll move through those in order with

[0:02:55] Voice 12: the document.

[0:02:56] Voice 12: Director Freider?

[0:02:57] Voice 12: Before,

[0:02:58] Trustee Patrick: I was going to ask if you could confer where we're supposed to send motions this

[0:03:02] Trustee Patrick: evening.

[0:03:02] Trustee Patrick: Who's the receiver of them?

[0:03:06] Voice 26: Good.

[0:03:07] Voice 10: Lisa, you're...

[0:03:08] Voice 10: Yeah.

[0:03:09] Voice 10: David?

[0:03:11] Voice 26: Yeah, I think, Lisa, you have access to motions at islandstrust.bc.ca, so we can use that.

[0:03:19] Voice 12: So that's motions?

[0:03:20] Voice 26: Motion at

[0:03:21] Voice 12: islandstrust.bc.ca.

[0:03:25] Voice 26: Yeah, motion or motions, it will both work.

[0:03:30] Voice 12: Yeah, and we'll try to put them up on the screen as able.

[0:03:34] Voice 12: Who has screen sharing ability here?

[0:03:39] Voice 12: I

[0:03:39] Voice 18: think David Marler is going to be sharing the agenda when you're ready.

[0:03:42] Voice 26: Yeah, I can.

[0:03:44] Voice 26: Yeah, I wasn't sure if Jason was going to share it or not, but I'll do that.

[0:03:48] Voice 26: Just give me a second to pull it up.

[0:03:51] Voice 12: Sure. Thanks.

[0:03:54] Voice 12: So we'll

[0:03:55] Voice 10: go to page three, the

[0:03:55] Voice 18: committee level follow-up action list.

[0:03:58] Voice 18: Yeah, go ahead, Claire.

[0:03:59] Voice 18: Okay. Well, if I might, I'll use that opportunity to speak.

[0:04:02] Voice 18: I just wanted to give some messaging that we heard from the Quitset Nation.

[0:04:05] Voice 18: So perhaps I can do it as part of the follow-up action list,

[0:04:07] Voice 18: or you could add it as an additional agenda item.

[0:04:12] Voice 12: Sure. We could add that right now.

[0:04:14] Voice 12: as part of the follow-up action report as we move through do you want to give

[0:04:21] Voice 12: that update now sure

[0:04:22] Voice 18: well maybe I'll ask if there's any questions on the follow

[0:04:24] Voice 18: up action list and and I also see the trustee Boland has her hand up so you

[0:04:28] Voice 18: might you might want to address that first trustee Boland

[0:04:31] Voice 16: thanks just in for

[0:04:35] Voice 16: clarity so I believe trustee first is going to submit a motion and which is an

[0:04:42] Voice 16: an update to the first section guiding principles and priorities am I right about that I'd just like

[0:04:49] Voice 16: to understand how we're going to go through this methodically because I certainly had issues about

[0:04:56] Voice 16: that section but I thought that we would come to it in due course and so I'd just like to understand

[0:05:03] Voice 16: the kind of way that we're tackling this because we were advised to start at 3.4.15 or whatever it

[0:05:12] Voice 16: was today. Thanks.

[0:05:14] Voice 12: Yeah, the plan was to start at hazardous areas 3.4.6 and move to I think 3.4.9

[0:05:22] Voice 12: housing policies and Trustee Fast did send in a suggestion for a cooperation principle. So

[0:05:29] Voice 12: So at the pleasure of the committee, we could consider that or we could leave any previous amendments to action or to the document that we've already covered to a future meeting.

[0:05:47] Voice 12: How does everyone feel about going backwards versus keeping on?

[0:05:58] Voice 12: Yes, Trustee Patrick and Trustee Fast.

[0:06:03] Trustee Patrick: as it might work just to use sort of a notice of motion for backward uh thoughts so people can

[0:06:09] Trustee Patrick: think about them and then maybe regroup because if we keep going backwards we're gonna i think get

[0:06:14] Trustee Patrick: in trouble agree

[0:06:17] Trustee Fast: trustee fast thank you chair i'm um uh posted this motion in the chat and i sent it

[0:06:25] Trustee Fast: around on January 30th before our previous last week and the first one is an emerging issue and

[0:06:34] Trustee Fast: this is related to Mayor Andrew Leonard from Bowen Island coming to speak at Trust Council in December

[0:06:42] Trustee Fast: and it's a collaborating principle one pretty important because when the trust policy statement

[0:06:49] Trustee Fast: was created there were no island municipalities so something needs to be added there um it's in

[0:06:55] Trustee Fast: the chat if anybody wants to look at it i'm happy to wait or take it whatever it just seemed to me

[0:07:01] Trustee Fast: that having left it behind um i wanted to uh respond as executive committee or the um peter

[0:07:10] Trustee Fast: luckham has responded thank you oh we're now seeing one note on the screen i'm not sure if

[0:07:14] Trustee Fast: that's what's intended oh

[0:07:15] Voice 26: yeah okay uh that's fine these are just emotions that have been

[0:07:19] Voice 26: incentive. So you've got Trustee Bast and there's another one below which I think Trustee Patrick

[0:07:27] Voice 26: was alluding to. So I'm just queuing them up and I'll go back to the agenda. Let me just

[0:07:35] Voice 26: hit the right share here.

[0:07:38] Voice 12: Trustee Getty and then Trustee Yates.

[0:07:43] Voice 2: I'd like to know from staff

[0:07:46] Voice 2: how we're doing in terms of timetable it seems to me that if we for me to go back and try to

[0:07:53] Voice 2: think of what the conversation was and to go through you know possible I'm wondering if we're

[0:08:00] Voice 2: going to get through all of this and rather than going back if we can you know we we don't have

[0:08:07] Voice 2: all the trustees it's going to come to council there's going to be first reading and we can

[0:08:11] Voice 2: bring up all sorts of of things then so i'm not sure that um it would be necessarily i need some

[0:08:18] Voice 2: help and guidance and suggestions in terms of whether or not this is the most efficient way

[0:08:23] Voice 2: of doing it i'd like to try and get through the document so that we can get it you know through

[0:08:28] Voice 2: the process for this council so i guess i'm not in favor of going back and dealing with stuff

[0:08:36] Voice 12: okay understood thank you for that trustee yates and then trustee evans

[0:08:41] Voice 3: my request is very simple if director marler could just enlarge that screen share so i can read it

[0:08:48] Voice 3: thank you

[0:08:48] Voice 26: i will do that

[0:08:52] Voice 3: okay

[0:08:53] Voice 17: stevens thank you um i would be in favor of having the new um

[0:09:01] Voice 17: motions at the end of our business rather than dealing with them right now. I'm not sure if

[0:09:08] Voice 17: we're dealing with them first or if we're just looking to see where they can be put onto the

[0:09:13] Voice 17: agenda. I'm not sure where we are right now because I thought you just accepted the agenda

[0:09:16] Voice 17: and now we're talking about this. I don't know quite what we're doing.

[0:09:20] Voice 10: Yes. So the agenda is

[0:09:23] Voice 12: adopted we are moving through five to four point one and then five point one

[0:09:29] Voice 12: and then five point two is moving through the document itself so I had

[0:09:33] Voice 12: proposed going to a cooperation principle two point two but if this

[0:09:39] Voice 12: committee wants to start with house

[0:09:50] Voice 12: chair

[0:09:52] Voice 18: Elliott we've lost your audio any

[0:09:55] Voice 12: new mo it's already been reviewed Oh again hello now

[0:10:02] Voice 12: you're back is that okay

[0:10:04] Voice 18: okay you may need to repeat what you just said I'm

[0:10:11] Voice 12: so sorry so yes

[0:10:14] Voice 12: Yes, we're going through 5.1, then 5.2, starting with the housing policies.

[0:10:22] Voice 12: The consideration of amendments to previously reviewed materials should come at the end.

[0:10:33] Voice 12: Does that suit everyone?

[0:10:40] Voice 12: Everyone's frozen for me.

[0:10:41] Trustee Fast: Oh, I had my thumb up.

[0:10:43] Trustee Fast: That's fine with me if that's the will of the group.

[0:10:45] Trustee Fast: Oh, no.

[0:10:47] Trustee Fast: Can I speak?

[0:10:48] Voice 17: not sure if you

[0:10:55] Voice 18: may need to designate a vice chair can

[0:11:00] Voice 17: I can I speak again please go ahead

[0:11:03] Voice 12: and I'm going to change locations

[0:11:04] Voice 17: I apologize so I would be in favor of the new motions either

[0:11:10] Voice 17: coming at the end of this agenda as we currently have it or that they'd be moved to a future agenda

[0:11:16] Voice 17: where we've got a chance to review both the motion and any staff input and and supporting

[0:11:22] Voice 17: information that staff can provide us on the motions okay

[0:11:30] Voice 12: can everyone hear me

[0:11:31] Voice 12: now yes okay

[0:11:33] Voice 12: I think that sounds like a good idea does it generally meet

[0:11:39] Voice 12: consensus nodding of heads is great thumbs up okay that's great so if anyone

[0:11:47] Voice 12: has any amendments to previously considered material we're going to

[0:11:54] Voice 12: bundle them at the end once we've reviewed everything so thank you for

[0:11:58] Voice 12: that trustee fast and apologies for any confusion let's go back to the follow-up action list

[0:12:07] Voice 12: any questions for staff not seen any hands director

[0:12:17] Voice 18: freighter do you want to provide an update yes

[0:12:19] Voice 18: please if i might i thought we could use this opportunity just to um speak about a meeting

[0:12:26] Voice 18: that staff had with kawitsin nation representatives last week we received some messaging that we

[0:12:32] Voice 18: committed to forwarding on to the Committee of the Whole.

[0:12:35] Voice 18: Kawitsa Nation is comprised of members of Halal First Nation,

[0:12:41] Voice 18: Stamina's First Nation, Cowichan Tribes, Layak's First Nation, and Penelakut Tribe,

[0:12:46] Voice 18: and all of which have been involved in the crafting of the

[0:12:49] Voice 18: draft policy statement that you're considering now.

[0:12:54] Voice 18: And as part of that meeting we just were updating them on where the project is at

[0:12:58] Voice 18: and providing sort of the updates that have happened through the fall and so on.

[0:13:01] Voice 18: and we received some messaging in that meeting that we committed to bring here to let you know

[0:13:05] Voice 18: tonight um and so i've got some just some key messaging i want to give you and then we'll let

[0:13:09] Voice 18: you know what staff intend to do as we move forward here um so first off they wanted to

[0:13:14] Voice 18: let us know that their membership is growing weary of participating in trust processes

[0:13:18] Voice 18: when they're not seeing the result of that participation reflected in policy

[0:13:23] Voice 18: i think an overarching concern was that the trust's current approach to governance and land

[0:13:27] Voice 18: use decision making generally is perpetual perpetuating colonial power structures and

[0:13:33] Voice 18: we aren't they aren't seeing the foundational changes that they were really hoping the

[0:13:37] Voice 18: analyst trust was going to be undertaking um they were also interested in having staff convey to you

[0:13:44] Voice 18: that indigenous governing bodies constitutionally protected rights are not something to be balanced

[0:13:49] Voice 18: by trust council with any other priorities in addition they wanted to convey a request about

[0:13:56] Voice 18: the lack of co-governance and co-management initiatives emerging out

[0:14:00] Voice 18: of this policy statement project, particularly LIAXN had advanced a

[0:14:05] Voice 18: request for such in the past. They also conveyed discontent that they

[0:14:13] Voice 18: don't have any representation in this group and wondered what might be able to

[0:14:17] Voice 18: be made available. Another important point made was around capacity funding

[0:14:21] Voice 18: And noting that without additional funding, their continued participation in our processes is impossible.

[0:14:29] Voice 18: And we are not to expect more engagement by them if there's no corresponding funding to support their participation.

[0:14:40] Voice 18: In addition, they wanted to note that timing of the engagement window must be sensitive to the seasonal rhythms of Indigenous communities.

[0:14:47] Voice 18: communities. So these were some strong messages that were received by staff. We committed to share

[0:14:53] Voice 18: them with you, but we want to let you know that we're going to be doing further work as the senior

[0:14:58] Voice 18: management team and with our senior Indigenous relations advisor and Planner Humans to work

[0:15:04] Voice 18: through these in more depth, have more conversations, and then come back to Trust Council with some

[0:15:09] Voice 18: recommendations when we've done more work on this feedback. So I just wanted to make you aware of it

[0:15:14] Voice 18: tonight um and let you know that we're going to continue to feel through this feedback learn

[0:15:18] Voice 18: additional information and come back to trust council with more information so this was just

[0:15:23] Voice 18: to advise you tonight happy to take any questions if you have them claire

[0:15:29] Voice 12: do you think you could

[0:15:30] Voice 12: provide um those notes in an email to trustees just summarizing what you said certainly and

[0:15:36] Voice 22: claire and then maybe i could just add maybe i think one of the things i also heard is um

[0:15:41] Voice 22: not having a seat, but maybe having,

[0:15:43] Voice 22: they're wondering why they weren't having a voice, I guess,

[0:15:46] Voice 22: at this committee or where decisions are being made or.

[0:15:52] Voice 18: Yeah. So I think, I mean, I've, I, as you all know,

[0:15:55] Voice 18: I had some discomfort at our September meeting trying to fill that space in

[0:15:59] Voice 18: the room from the podium feeling, you know, it's a difficult position.

[0:16:02] Voice 18: So that might be something to consider is how do we ensure that that feedback

[0:16:05] Voice 18: is represented in the room as you're all having your debates.

[0:16:11] Voice 12: Absolutely. Thank you for that.

[0:16:12] Voice 12: I see three speakers, Trustee Bernardo, then Boland, then Borthwick.

[0:16:18] Voice 25: Thank you.

[0:16:20] Voice 25: Yeah, I've got two questions.

[0:16:21] Voice 25: Claire, I'm wondering if you could actually repeat the second point about balance.

[0:16:26] Voice 25: I kind of missed that.

[0:16:30] Voice 25: I wasn't able to follow it, and that may be my hearing.

[0:16:34] Voice 25: I'm not sure.

[0:16:35] Voice 25: The other thing is, so I'll ask you to repeat that.

[0:16:38] Voice 25: and the other the more substantive question is uh in your discussions with your counterparts

[0:16:45] Voice 25: uh with couch and staff um did the topic come up that um the trust is bound by legislation

[0:16:55] Voice 25: in terms of the range of options that are available to us in terms of being inclusive

[0:17:06] Voice 18: so through the chair i'll answer those questions um with regard to the first the point that was

[0:17:11] Voice 18: made that we were asked to convey was that the constitutionally protected rights of indigenous

[0:17:16] Voice 18: governing bodies are not something to be balanced by trust council with any other priorities

[0:17:22] Voice 25: okay got it and

[0:17:24] Voice 18: with regard to the second question i want to answer that very carefully we did not i

[0:17:28] Voice 18: think we were as we participated in that meeting we're very much listening and respectfully coming

[0:17:32] Voice 18: to understand the concerns that were shared um i think i would many of the people on the call are

[0:17:38] Voice 18: are aware of the environment which which we operate, but I think are expecting that we move

[0:17:45] Voice 18: into conducting the trust in a way that is consistent with UNDRIP, I think is the the hope

[0:17:54] Voice 18: and expectation. So we did not get into depth conversations in depth around legal understandings.

[0:18:05] Voice 25: Is that I'm hearing from you, that's a conscious choice in the part of our staff, is that right?

[0:18:11] Voice 18: In that meeting, we were there to receive feedback. I don't think we were there to be

[0:18:15] Voice 18: offering a defense of how, a defense of Trust Council decisions, I think. We were just there

[0:18:23] Voice 18: to understand their perspectives.

[0:18:26] Voice 25: All right. Thank you.

[0:18:29] Voice 18: Trustee Boland? Okay. This

[0:18:32] Voice 16: is a very personal opinion.

[0:18:35] Voice 16: I find this very difficult. We're in a quagmire, partly of our own making, partly due to things

[0:18:42] Voice 16: beyond our control personally as a trustee I came to this Trust Council in

[0:18:50] Voice 16: November 2022 in the previous what two years since July 2021 to September 2022

[0:18:59] Voice 16: one version of the trust policy statement was sent to the public in

[0:19:05] Voice 16: In September 2022, there were a number of recommendations approved by that Trust Council.

[0:19:14] Voice 16: I came to Trust Council in November 2022. Between then and May 2024, I never saw another version of the Trust Policy Statement

[0:19:26] Voice 16: because it was being amended according to those recommendations from the previous term

[0:19:32] Voice 16: and or it was being consulted with First Nations because they were being consulted

[0:19:39] Voice 16: in confidence so I find it very difficult to really accept that we haven't done our best

[0:19:49] Voice 16: to accommodate First Nations engagement we deliberately delayed we didn't see the version

[0:19:59] Voice 16: in September that was sent to First Nations for engagement, because that would be deemed

[0:20:04] Voice 16: to complicate the whole referral and engagement and response process.

[0:20:09] Voice 16: So the first version that I saw was 18 months into my term as trustee in May.

[0:20:17] Voice 16: And now we are, you know, working our way through it as best we can.

[0:20:22] Voice 16: So I personally feel quite, I feel quite hurt and affronted by this.

[0:20:32] Voice 16: And I feel that staff should have consulted more with us and we should have been more aware of the consultation that was going on with First Nations.

[0:20:44] Voice 16: version, maybe September 2022, or whatever it was, 2023, before First Nations, we should have seen

[0:20:52] Voice 16: that. Anyway, that's where I stand on this issue. And it's a personal opinion. So thanks for

[0:20:58] Voice 16: listening.

[0:21:00] Voice 12: Thank you for your comments, Trustee Borthwick.

[0:21:03] Voice 13: Yeah, thanks. And just I've got a quick

[0:21:06] Voice 13: question. And then I've got sort of a sort of follow up thing. So Director Frater, maybe you

[0:21:11] Voice 13: can help me with this so these meetings are um just sort of understand just sort of refreshing

[0:21:18] Voice 13: my understanding of who who you were meeting with this was uh leadership like the elected

[0:21:23] Voice 13: leadership or or staff this

[0:21:25] Voice 18: was staff uh staff or yeah generally staff and it's called their

[0:21:28] Voice 18: technical working group

[0:21:29] Voice 13: okay um and and this technical working group is a is a body of

[0:21:36] Voice 13: of uh of a coalition of nations is that what i've cracked an understanding okay

[0:21:41] Voice 15: sure

[0:21:42] Voice 13: um yeah and i mean obviously like i you know obviously these are you know concerns and and on

[0:21:48] Voice 13: all this stuff and i think our job in this moment is to sort of take those on and just you know take

[0:21:52] Voice 13: them into consideration i don't think um and i think that but i do think that there are opportunities

[0:21:57] Voice 13: for us to um yeah find a way like we don't have an immediate uh solution in terms of like

[0:22:06] Voice 13: like how to fix representation and whatever else.

[0:22:10] Voice 13: And I think, you know, as Trustee Bernardo brings up,

[0:22:13] Voice 13: like we do have constraints in terms of the broader framework

[0:22:16] Voice 13: in which we're operating.

[0:22:17] Voice 13: However, I wonder if we're going to, as a body,

[0:22:22] Voice 13: be receiving, you know, be in a place where we're receiving feedback,

[0:22:30] Voice 13: and especially as that feedback directly pertains to, you know,

[0:22:36] Voice 13: know the behavior and and and you know actions of trust council um i and may and correct me if i'm

[0:22:42] Voice 13: wrong this is really just a question um but is there any value in having a trustee uh who's there

[0:22:49] Voice 13: even just in an observing uh um role who can be a direct representative of this kind of news because

[0:22:57] Voice 13: again then i you know i i empathize with with you not wanting to you know be the bearer of this to

[0:23:02] Voice 13: trust counsel from a podium um but you know if we are able to appoint someone to participate in

[0:23:09] Voice 13: conversations like this who you know it's it's not us putting uh you know a representative of

[0:23:16] Voice 13: each nation on on trust counsel and all of the you know myriad issues and constraints that prevent

[0:23:22] Voice 13: that currently um but is there some value in us just having a trustee who's able to you know be

[0:23:29] Voice 13: there to witness that and be able to report back to that to trust council but also um you know

[0:23:34] Voice 13: to me that also would show a degree of respect in terms of we're sending someone who is part

[0:23:39] Voice 13: of our leadership uh to to hear these things it's not um that not that us having staff be there is

[0:23:47] Voice 13: not uh is not enough or that you guys can't do it um but as a show of respect and also for us as a

[0:23:54] Voice 13: body of elected people it's not a question of well we're hearing this now from staff

[0:23:57] Voice 13: from other people who you know are expressing a concern i i just i don't know if that's an option

[0:24:03] Voice 13: but i and i would be interested to know if if uh council has any interest or thinks that that has

[0:24:09] Voice 13: any merit um

[0:24:13] Voice 18: through the chair do you like your response before we

[0:24:24] Trustee Fast: can't hear you toby

[0:24:30] Trustee Fast: uh

[0:24:34] Voice 13: chair chair you might have to try without your video

[0:24:42] Voice 12: no venturing into this i'm so okay director frader go ahead and i will move locations i'm

[0:24:48] Voice 12: so sorry everyone

[0:24:50] Voice 18: um so certainly um that's something we can take away and have discussions

[0:24:55] Voice 18: with um them to see if that's something they'd be interested in and certainly that's a discussion

[0:25:00] Voice 18: more appropriate at the trust council level this is committee of the whole and the agenda tonight

[0:25:03] Voice 18: is meant to focus in on you know you're working through your amendments uh we had just made a

[0:25:08] Voice 18: commitment that they had requested that at your next meeting we report in so I just wanted to

[0:25:11] Voice 18: take a moment to honor that promise we've made but I don't want to derail your agenda tonight

[0:25:15] Voice 18: and staff will need more time to help you you know to prepare answers for those types of questions I

[0:25:20] Voice 18: think so I don't yeah just caution you about going too far off into this tonight because we can

[0:25:26] Voice 18: support you with a broader conversation another day but certainly anything is possible but we

[0:25:31] Voice 18: would have to talk to them and make sure that's something that they would be comfortable with and

[0:25:35] Voice 18: would welcome because it's it's their meeting and we're we're guests at their meeting yeah i didn't

[0:25:40] Voice 13: mean to uh to necessarily wade into it tonight i apologize if that was

[0:25:44] Voice 18: my implication i just

[0:25:45] Voice 18: over answer anything tonight without preparation no

[0:25:49] Voice 13: i appreciate it just

[0:25:54] Voice 10: to getty thank

[0:25:56] Voice 2: you um

[0:25:58] Voice 2: when they if we were to deal with the uh capacity funding question my recollection was that there

[0:26:05] Voice 2: There was money still that we had received from the province for capacity building that was left over from last year.

[0:26:13] Voice 2: If we could spend some of that in terms of, and I don't know how that all gets set up,

[0:26:19] Voice 2: but it seems to me that if we don't want them to be unable to participate

[0:26:26] Voice 2: and we need to spend some time figuring out how to deal with, you know,

[0:26:32] Voice 2: If we're going to be at the forefront of some of this work that has to happen in the broader provincial and we're this little local government process that doesn't have a lot of power ourselves, then how do we set it up so that we don't disappoint, that we don't set up unrealistic expectations, that we can set something up that isn't going to be overturned by the provincial government?

[0:27:00] Voice 2: or, you know, we don't even understand the whole process, I don't think.

[0:27:04] Voice 2: So, and I definitely don't understand what some of the timing of the process in terms of seasonal activities.

[0:27:15] Voice 2: So it would be very, very helpful in terms of all of the things that the steps that we're trying to take to get this done during our term,

[0:27:25] Voice 2: ways that we can push this as far as we can as much as we can without setting ourselves up and

[0:27:32] Voice 2: any of the First Nations that we're working with in terms of having it turned down later so you

[0:27:37] Voice 2: know I think that we've been cautious and sensitive and it's an uncharted area that

[0:27:44] Voice 2: we're trying to figure out with everybody and I think if we can spend some of that capacity

[0:27:50] Voice 2: funding to develop that partnership or that working

[0:27:54] Voice 2: relationship, that might be the first step if that's possible.

[0:27:58] Voice 2: And the rest is very complicated and not easy.

[0:28:01] Voice 2: And our hearts might be in the right place,

[0:28:03] Voice 2: but it's hard to actually pull it off.

[0:28:06] Voice 2: So I would appreciate some more guidance, I guess,

[0:28:14] Voice 2: how to stick handle all of this so that we can all come out

[0:28:18] Voice 2: winning the whole thing.

[0:28:22] Voice 12: I think it's definitely something where staff are trying to figure out.

[0:28:26] Voice 12: I think what we need to recognize here is we've had significant feedback about our process

[0:28:31] Voice 12: and that's not going to get addressed or fixed tonight.

[0:28:35] Voice 12: We need to hear that feedback, but there are more questions than answers, so I'm going

[0:28:39] Voice 12: to recognize two other speakers and then I'd like to return to working through the work

[0:28:46] Voice 12: before us.

[0:28:47] Voice 12: Thank you.

[0:28:48] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson?

[0:28:50] Voice 23: Yeah, and I don't want to sidetrack this from the work that we have set out for us, but just wanted to make a couple of quick observations.

[0:29:02] Voice 23: We staffed in a bunch of consultation with First Nations.

[0:29:06] Voice 23: We received that.

[0:29:08] Voice 23: We've still got it all.

[0:29:12] Voice 23: this body in its various permutations have have made amendments to the draft that

[0:29:21] Voice 23: don't always reflect what the the feedback that we received so there's that there's the

[0:29:29] Voice 23: the feedback that we're getting that we're hearing today as well but then there's there's

[0:29:34] Voice 23: There's larger issues around the capacity funding, around work to advocate the Provincial

[0:29:41] Voice 23: Review question around aligning the Islands Trust Act with DRIPA.

[0:29:47] Voice 23: There's some big work out there and we're not going to get it done tonight and I'd suggest

[0:29:52] Voice 23: that that's maybe a topic that we need to focus in on and it's sort of some dedicated

[0:29:59] Voice 23: dedicated sessions.

[0:30:00] Voice 23: to get anywhere. So I'm going to leave it there and we'll get back to what's in front of us. Thank

[0:30:05] Voice 23: you.

[0:30:08] Voice 12: Thank you, Trustee Bernardo. You are muted, sir.

[0:30:19] Voice 25: Thank you. Sorry about that. I want to follow

[0:30:22] Voice 25: up on a point that Trustee Getty brought up about, you know, where does this capacity funding go if

[0:30:29] Voice 25: we're at risk of, well, it's not at risk, but there's a potential here for disappointment

[0:30:38] Voice 25: in in in the whole discussions that happen between us and indigenous governing bodies

[0:30:44] Voice 25: and i'm anxious that um i'm very anxious about the disappointment aspect of it because

[0:30:53] Voice 25: you know we've done a tremendous amount of engagement through staff

[0:30:57] Voice 25: but i'm actually worried that we're going to make reconciliation more difficult

[0:31:02] Voice 25: difficult um uh in the trust area the longer we keep going on about not being clear about where

[0:31:11] Voice 25: we're at in terms of our legal and jurisdictional reality i mean that's a big part of what the

[0:31:17] Voice 25: letter to the province is all about asking for help in terms of providing us with guidance but

[0:31:23] Voice 25: also really you know helping us um and the province as a whole actually but you know establish an

[0:31:31] Voice 25: appropriate framework that can work with wherever the province is going because you know we can't do

[0:31:37] Voice 25: this reconciliation work without real help from the province and without real direction from the

[0:31:43] Voice 25: province so uh i would hope you know claire and when the staff and i understand it makes sense

[0:31:50] Voice 25: the staff was simply giving us notice of what they'd heard and isn't in a position at this

[0:31:54] Voice 25: point to go much deeper than that but i would hope the staff could put some attention into

[0:32:00] Voice 25: to answering this question about when is the right time

[0:32:05] Voice 25: for political leadership at the trust side

[0:32:11] Voice 25: to speak to the political leadership

[0:32:13] Voice 25: of relevant Indigenous governing bodies

[0:32:16] Voice 25: and having a realistic discussion about,

[0:32:19] Voice 25: yes, we wanna get there, but we have these difficulties,

[0:32:23] Voice 25: we have these challenges.

[0:32:24] Voice 25: And in a sense, we should be allies

[0:32:26] Voice 25: with Indigenous governing bodies.

[0:32:28] Voice 25: I mean, they should be our allies,

[0:32:29] Voice 25: We should be their allies in moving this process forward and encouraging the province to be more helpful.

[0:32:36] Voice 25: That's not something staff can do, but if that is something, that is a discussion, it seems to me, that political leadership on both ends should be having, probably in my own personal view, sooner rather than later, rather than perpetuating misconceptions about what we ourselves have the capacity to do.

[0:32:58] Voice 25: So I would ask that the staff, when it goes off to sort of consider options about how to deal with this, these comments that we're receiving from Cowichan Nation or the group, that staff put some thought into the timing of a political overture where we end up having that discussion about what the legal and jurisdictional reality is.

[0:33:25] Voice 25: Thank you.

[0:33:26] Voice 25: thank

[0:33:30] Voice 12: you very important questions and uh all points raised thank you uh trustee graham and

[0:33:36] Voice 12: thank you everyone i'm

[0:33:38] Voice 6: i'm sorry um i know we want to get this work accomplished um but what

[0:33:43] Voice 6: i've heard from staff really has me very troubled and and in fact the uh report from trustee bolin

[0:33:51] Voice 6: about the fact that we thought we had spent quite a bit of time having this document looked at by

[0:33:56] Voice 6: first nations i'm not convinced that that work uh was useful to us either and and now i'm sitting

[0:34:03] Voice 6: here thinking um you know we know what happens when first nations don't feel they've been properly

[0:34:08] Voice 6: consulted uh salt spring housing was a i mean they basically threw out all of that work because it

[0:34:16] Voice 6: hadn't been done properly and so i'm concerned that if we continue to do the work that we're

[0:34:23] Voice 6: doing, the way we're doing it, we are not moving in a direction that's going to reach a conclusion.

[0:34:31] Voice 6: I'm wondering if this is a golden opportunity for Trust Council to re-look at the work of amending

[0:34:39] Voice 6: the policy statement in a collaborative and co-management environment. I don't want to rush

[0:34:45] Voice 6: this amendment of this document and end up with something that doesn't work, that doesn't move

[0:34:50] Voice 6: us into a co-management relationship with First Nations, I think this is a golden opportunity.

[0:34:59] Voice 6: So I feel really bad, but personally, I wouldn't go any farther with our current process. Now,

[0:35:07] Voice 6: we've done a tremendous lot of work designing these policies. They're good policies,

[0:35:11] Voice 6: and that's perhaps a good place to start, but I don't want to start it in isolation of First

[0:35:16] Voice 6: First Nations. I envision something that doesn't even exist, you know, a three-day get-together

[0:35:22] Voice 6: where we all sit around and we talk about these policies collaboratively with First Nations,

[0:35:27] Voice 6: and I know that sounds Pollyanna, but that's how I'm thinking right now, and I apologize for

[0:35:31] Voice 6: throwing this at you all, but that's where I'm feeling.

[0:35:37] Voice 12: Thank you for your comments, Trustee

[0:35:39] Voice 12: Graham. I see you, Joe Elliott.

[0:35:46] Voice 22: Yes, I just, I don't know if it's even appropriate, but I just

[0:35:50] Voice 22: want to bring up uh ford and i just uh came across there's a court case that's um currently i think

[0:35:57] Voice 22: last week is uh at the provincial at the high level provincial level courts and it's uh it's

[0:36:04] Voice 22: the gazella and the had a set the west coast first nations that are taking the the province uh to

[0:36:09] Voice 22: push the to push forward the under obligations and so i don't know what those if those considerations

[0:36:16] Voice 22: considerations if and what the outcome is going to be but if the outcome is in favor of the first

[0:36:22] Voice 22: nations that's definitely going to have um change the whole process and realignment of policies that

[0:36:28] Voice 22: that are that are current and i'm just not i don't know if the trustees are aware of that that court

[0:36:33] Voice 22: case and i just wanted to share that so thank you thank

[0:36:38] Voice 12: you joe i think we we do recognize this is

[0:36:40] Voice 12: a changing legislative, statutory, and decision-making landscape. Thank you. Trustee Evans?

[0:36:51] Voice 17: I think I just have a question for staff. After listening about the feedback and hearing how

[0:37:02] Voice 17: kind of unhappy First Nations are feeling with the process,

[0:37:07] Voice 17: process. And I know that when they received the document the first time, they were very

[0:37:12] Voice 17: clearly advised that this Trust Council has not seen the document. There will be changes. This

[0:37:19] Voice 17: Trust Council has to have an opportunity to look at the document and provide changes based on

[0:37:26] Voice 17: information that we've been receiving from community and our own policies and et cetera,

[0:37:35] Voice 17: etc and we haven't we haven't um released a revised document with changes in it yet

[0:37:44] Voice 17: we haven't had a marked up version of this yet so i'm curious as to why and maybe i'm

[0:37:52] Voice 17: misunderstanding or missing something along the way here why they're so unhappy with what we're

[0:37:57] Voice 17: doing when this is the first time that we're actually doing anything with this document

[0:38:02] Voice 17: document. So I guess my question is to Claire, like, can you provide a little info and help on

[0:38:09] Voice 17: clarity here? Because I'm a little bit at a loss. Like, this is our first time that we're,

[0:38:16] Voice 17: we're actually walking through this as as Trust Council and talking about this document. This is

[0:38:22] Voice 17: our first opportunity. And we've got way less time to do it than first.

[0:38:33] Voice 18: I see Joe's hand up.

[0:38:34] Voice 18: I don't know if Joe's intending to try and maybe take that question, or whether you'd like me to

[0:38:38] Voice 18: Joe no

[0:38:40] Voice 22: I just didn't take it down sorry Claire okay

[0:38:42] Voice 18: no problem so through the chair I want to

[0:38:46] Voice 18: make sure we're having a culturally safe conversation here so I don't want to try and

[0:38:50] Voice 18: speak for nations right and what their what their intents might be I think I can convey a general

[0:38:56] Voice 18: sense of concern around the lack of genuine working together at a genuine co-governance

[0:39:02] Voice 18: It's based in strong relationship.

[0:39:06] Voice 18: Speaking to Trustee Bernardo's point around we are allies,

[0:39:10] Voice 18: I think the sending, you know, and I don't want to derail your meeting tonight

[0:39:13] Voice 18: because I do think it's important you continue moving through this document.

[0:39:17] Voice 18: But in terms of allies, I think that we conveyed to Executive Committee

[0:39:20] Voice 18: at their last meeting, there was a sense of, I think, hurt

[0:39:24] Voice 18: that the letter to the province requesting legislative change

[0:39:27] Voice 18: was done without doing it with the nations, right?

[0:39:30] Voice 18: right? You're asking, you know, something to work in co-governance and in deep relationship with

[0:39:35] Voice 18: them, but you didn't ask them to be involved in the crafting of that. So, you know, that was the

[0:39:40] Voice 18: context of the meeting, I think, was generally a desire for genuine deep relationship and a true

[0:39:45] Voice 18: collaborative approach to how you're undertaking your work. This happened to be the focus of the

[0:39:49] Voice 18: meeting, but I would express, I know, I don't, I want to be very careful and not try to imply it

[0:39:54] Voice 18: in any way I'm speaking for nations, but the general impression that I'm left with is a desire

[0:39:59] Voice 18: for genuine relationship building working to to the edge of the law in a collaborative positive

[0:40:06] Voice 18: space based in a deep understanding of constitutionally protected rights and a deep

[0:40:12] Voice 18: interest in advancing reconciliation you know within your canadian context right um so from a

[0:40:19] Voice 18: place of goodwill i think a genuine effort and i think they've heard a lot of good words from the

[0:40:23] Voice 18: trust but haven't seen us foundationally shift the way the organization's operating i think if i

[0:40:29] Voice 18: i could convey that and again it's too big of a conversation for tonight we have had an immense

[0:40:33] Voice 18: amount of nations effort into this document um until such time as someone says you know and

[0:40:40] Voice 18: lets trust council know to stop completely my advice is keep going because you know they're

[0:40:45] Voice 18: the way we have characterized it with some nations has been this will raise the safety net

[0:40:49] Voice 18: in some ways right it's a 1990s vintage document it doesn't offer things you know protections to

[0:40:55] Voice 18: heritage and other values in the way that your old draft does and there may be some advantage

[0:41:00] Voice 18: to nations to continuing this you know

[0:41:02] Voice 18: imperfect as it may be but that's for nations to tell us

[0:41:05] Voice 18: over time um so i leave that with you um and i hope that i'm you know i'll get joe's feedback

[0:41:11] Voice 18: later as to whether i'm uh conveying what we heard in a culturally sensitive way thank you

[0:41:17] Voice 12: thank you very tough we don't want to put you in that tough position director freighter but

[0:41:22] Voice 12: But thank you for responding that way.

[0:41:23] Voice 12: Trustee Hunter.

[0:41:25] Voice 19: Thank you, Chair.

[0:41:26] Voice 19: I just wanted to say that I totally agree with what Trustee Graham has just said.

[0:41:32] Voice 19: I do not think that we have the ability or the legal ability to do what we're trying to do right now.

[0:41:41] Voice 19: And I think we should put it on hold and not make any more decisions about anything until the province decides what Islands Trust can or cannot do.

[0:41:54] Voice 19: And that is really my true statement.

[0:41:57] Voice 19: And I'm not in favor of continuing with this any further until we have some better direction.

[0:42:05] Voice 19: Thank you.

[0:42:09] Voice 12: Thank you, Trustee Hunter.

[0:42:11] Voice 12: Trustee Laroni.

[0:42:12] Voice 12: I

[0:42:15] Voice 4: concur with Trustee Graham and Trustee Henson.

[0:42:26] Voice 12: Thank you, Trustee Leroni. So, this is complicated. Do we move forward? Recognizing

[0:42:39] Voice 12: this is not a decision-making body here tonight. We are here to have conversations about

[0:42:46] Voice 12: the policy document and think it through recognizing it's not going to be perfect

[0:42:56] Voice 12: and we are going to get more feedback when the recommendations are made so do

[0:43:04] Voice 12: we continue with this work tonight or do we leave it off trustee Boland I think

[0:43:13] Voice 16: we should continue I take the what trustee Graham and others have raised

[0:43:18] Voice 16: But I think we should continue as best we can, as we have done to date.

[0:43:24] Voice 16: I think there are huge issues and huge conversations raised here today about the process and, in

[0:43:31] Voice 16: fact, you know, how trustees have been involved in this process.

[0:43:36] Voice 16: I would also ask whether First Nations could be persuaded to support the request for the

[0:43:42] Voice 16: review on the basis of furthering what trustee graham and trustee hunter said which is without

[0:43:50] Voice 16: provincial clarification our hands are effectively tied in many ways with respect to some of the

[0:43:55] Voice 16: things that they want us to do and so yeah that's just an open question and then but i do think we

[0:44:04] Voice 16: should just continue thank

[0:44:07] Voice 12: you trustee boland trustee yates then graham then evans oh thank

[0:44:11] Voice 3: Thank you, Chair Elliott. We have just had advice from Director Frater that we should continue.

[0:44:23] Voice 18: Trustee Graham?

[0:44:26] Voice 6: Yes, I agree. I think we should continue.

[0:44:28] Voice 6: But when we meet at Trust Council,

[0:44:30] Voice 6: I want us to have a full conversation

[0:44:32] Voice 6: about what foundational change we can do

[0:44:35] Voice 6: to take these policies that we work so hard in isolation

[0:44:38] Voice 6: to create and somehow work together with First Nations

[0:44:43] Voice 6: and listen and learn and end up with an outcome that works.

[0:44:48] Voice 6: And personally, I wouldn't wait for the province.

[0:44:50] Voice 6: I think Trust Council has the ability to design a process

[0:44:53] Voice 6: that is collaborative and co-management

[0:44:55] Voice 6: without the province.

[0:44:56] Voice 6: I mean, good grief, you could wait 100 years for the province.

[0:45:01] Voice 12: Agree. And I want to get into the meat of that statement at a later date.

[0:45:07] Voice 12: But there is empowering legislation in DRIPA to create agreements.

[0:45:12] Voice 12: And I think that's where our strength may lie in the future.

[0:45:16] Voice 12: Trustee Evans?

[0:45:18] Voice 17: Thanks. Yeah, I'm definitely in favor of continuing moving this forward.

[0:45:23] Voice 17: Like we said, it's not going to be a perfect document.

[0:45:25] Voice 17: but the fact that we're addressing some major gaps that were not present in the 1994 version

[0:45:30] Voice 17: is crucial they can be edited they can be tweaked they can be updated but i think it's just really

[0:45:37] Voice 17: important to get those elements in first and we've got it we've got a starting base and if i

[0:45:44] Voice 26: made sure i have my hand up yes yeah

[0:45:46] Voice 12: oh i'm sorry david i didn't see you thank you go ahead that's

[0:45:49] Voice 26: fine i'm not able to raise my digital hand because i'm sharing the screen unfortunately so i'll just

[0:45:55] Voice 26: speak up uh just procedurally i just wanted to maybe remind you that community hall is not the

[0:46:01] Voice 26: decision authority so you have the directions set by council of course you can recommend to council

[0:46:08] Voice 26: but this particular meeting is set up for a particular reason so it'd be better to have

[0:46:13] Voice 26: the debate about whether or not to continue based on the information that director freighter provided

[0:46:18] Voice 26: at Trust Council and you can deal with that there and yeah I was happy to hear that

[0:46:26] Voice 26: there are other avenues available to you so you know you could wait for the province but that

[0:46:33] Voice 26: could be waiting quite a while legislative change can take years I think you'd be looking at four

[0:46:38] Voice 26: years or more from my experience with legislative change so if you want to do something before then

[0:46:44] Voice 26: then you'll have to take it on as Trust Council.

[0:46:47] Voice 26: And there's a lot you can do.

[0:46:48] Voice 26: You can just ask staff at Trust Council

[0:46:50] Voice 26: to come back with some suggestions for you

[0:46:53] Voice 26: or some ideas and how to make that happen.

[0:46:56] Voice 26: So I just wanted to offer that

[0:46:58] Voice 26: just from a procedural perspective.

[0:47:00] Voice 26: So I would recommend just continue

[0:47:03] Voice 26: with your discussion tonight as planned.

[0:47:09] Voice 12: Thank you, Director Marla.

[0:47:10] Voice 12: I see CEO Ruben Brony.

[0:47:13] Voice 12: Thank

[0:47:15] Voice 21: you. And I think that's good advice from Director Marler. And I want to acknowledge Director Freighter's somewhat courageous work in trying to help navigate and manage this conversation.

[0:47:28] Voice 21: I think what is clear is that there is a much bigger and broader discussion for Trust Council to have around how Islands Trust is willing and able to move forward this whole broader conversation, not just in the context of the policy statement.

[0:47:45] Voice 21: and that's a significant and substantive discussion and you know we can look at that

[0:47:51] Voice 21: when we meet in March and how that might be accommodated a discussion about how to proceed

[0:47:57] Voice 21: with that discussion be accommodated in that meeting but it really is it's as you all know

[0:48:03] Voice 21: very complex and not something that is easily solved but I think continuing with the work that

[0:48:10] Voice 21: you're doing tonight and continue to advance this well we try to figure out a path forward on that

[0:48:16] Voice 21: and and director frazier is indicating that that's the next step for staff is to come forward with

[0:48:21] Voice 21: some options on on how best to proceed with that um probably makes sense thanks thank you

[0:48:30] Voice 12: so i think there is further much further conversation to be had i'll just put one

[0:48:35] Voice 12: One final thought in here, if I might, is urging us not to take criticism as a negative thing.

[0:48:45] Voice 12: Criticism can be care.

[0:48:47] Voice 12: It means people care about the process and they want to be engaged.

[0:48:51] Voice 12: And on that basis, we can have relationship and we can construct positive, fruitful conversations.

[0:48:57] Voice 12: So, I think adopting an attitude that being critical of our process means we are called to do something better, and we can do that.

[0:49:09] Voice 12: So, with that, I'd like to return to our work for us tonight, the conversation tonight.

[0:49:16] Voice 12: We are on the follow-up action list.

[0:49:18] Voice 12: Thank you, Director Frater and staff for supporting this dialogue.

[0:49:23] Voice 12: I think it was really, really important.

[0:49:25] Voice 12: if there's nothing else on the follow-up action list should we go to 5.1 where we

[0:49:35] Voice 12: had requested staff to come back on material to clarify hazard risk

[0:49:43] Voice 12: mitigation and management policy and I see policy advisor Gilman's has joined

[0:49:51] Voice 12: us hello hello

[0:49:52] Voice 1: Thank You chair Elliott the day sort of got away from me so I

[0:50:00] Voice 1: I don't know that I am as adequately prepared for this portion of the discussion as I would like to be.

[0:50:04] Voice 1: I will try and recall what I provided in the last agenda package here.

[0:50:10] Voice 1: This request for decision follows on two resolutions that were made at the December 12th meeting of Committee of the Whole.

[0:50:17] Voice 1: One was to revise the policy around hazardous areas to insert some new language into that.

[0:50:24] Voice 1: And then subsequently, Committee of the Whole also passed a resolution that asked staff to come back with alternate wording suggestions to the hazardous areas item, particularly around the language of directing development away from versus managing development related to hazard areas.

[0:50:41] Voice 1: Staff did go away and do a little bit of research and come back to you with this request for decision.

[0:50:46] Voice 1: I think the high points are essentially this. It's important to remember that the Local Government Act actually requires local governments to address hazard areas in their OCP, so this is a long-standing requirement that the province puts upon all local governments, so it's not something that the Islands Trust has just chosen to do on its own accord.

[0:51:07] Voice 1: board. The language of directing development away from hazard areas is language that comes

[0:51:15] Voice 1: directly from the existing Islands Trust policy statement. So this isn't new language per se for

[0:51:20] Voice 1: the Islands Trust, if you were to consider directing development away from, though I do know

[0:51:27] Voice 1: that the realm of potential hazards has perhaps expanded since the time the original policy

[0:51:33] Voice 1: statement was adopted that was sort of three more intensified effects of

[0:51:40] Voice 1: climate change for example and the increased fire risk that may exist on

[0:51:44] Voice 1: some islands right around the language of managing hazards other than through

[0:51:54] Voice 1: development permit areas which are only activated kind of at the time somebody

[0:51:59] Voice 1: is doing something on their land opportunities to the the islands trust

[0:52:05] Voice 1: us is very limited in our ability to manage hazards in an active way, like particularly

[0:52:11] Voice 1: thinking of wildfire risk. We are not in the fuel management business, for example, in the way that

[0:52:18] Voice 1: the province potentially should be on its crown land, though I suppose the Islands Trust

[0:52:22] Voice 1: Conservancy and its lands to some extent has to give some thought to that. And similarly,

[0:52:28] Voice 1: we don't control open burning regulations, for example, that's managed on Salt Spring through

[0:52:32] Voice 1: the salt spring island fire rescue so our ability to manage hazards is is fairly limited what i

[0:52:38] Voice 1: ultimately have recommended here in this report is that we simply take the language if you want

[0:52:42] Voice 1: to come down somewhere between directing development away from and managing uh i was i

[0:52:48] Voice 1: recommend the word restrict which comes directly from the local government act and it is what the

[0:52:54] Voice 1: province says that local governments must do in relation to hazard areas and were you to take me

[0:52:59] Voice 1: up on that recommendation, you would wind up with a policy that says identify areas

[0:53:04] Voice 1: at elevated risk of natural and climate change-related hazards and restrict development within them,

[0:53:09] Voice 1: including but not limited to areas subject to flooding, sea level rise, erosion, slope

[0:53:14] Voice 1: instability, and fire.

[0:53:17] Voice 1: I do provide some excerpts within the appendix of this request for decision, just sort of

[0:53:24] Voice 1: a bit of a survey of what and how other local governments are, what they're doing and how

[0:53:29] Voice 1: they're looking at hazard areas in their jurisdictions, particularly around the issue

[0:53:35] Voice 1: of wildfire. But thank you.

[0:53:39] Voice 12: Thank you, Policy Advisor Yeomans. I just wanted to, Director

[0:53:45] Voice 12: Marler, could you go to the bottom of page 16? There is a qualifier about the word restrict

[0:53:52] Voice 12: does not mean prohibit.

[0:53:56] Voice 12: So do we want to have some conversation on this?

[0:53:58] Voice 12: I see Trustee Yates, then Trustee Patrick,

[0:54:00] Voice 12: then Trustee Evans.

[0:54:02] Voice 12: Thank you.

[0:54:02] Voice 3: Thank you, Chair Elliott.

[0:54:04] Voice 3: And thank you, Policy Advisor Jason Yeomans.

[0:54:07] Voice 3: We don't very often use the word restrict.

[0:54:10] Voice 3: And certainly there is a good definition of it here.

[0:54:13] Voice 3: I think this is one place where it is very appropriate.

[0:54:16] Voice 3: Thank you.

[0:54:21] Voice 12: Just go ahead there.

[0:54:23] Voice 12: If I've already recognized you, please go ahead.

[0:54:26] Trustee Patrick: I really want to thank the examples that were put in there and note that wild fire is the word and I am still vehemently opposed to the word fire houses burned down here all the time for wood stoves and electrical and all these other issues wild fire is the is the natural risk or the sometimes unnatural.

[0:54:50] Trustee Patrick: natural um and that was one of the you know should should we have had two policies i know this is hard

[0:54:56] Trustee Patrick: work or you know we either live with it this way but we have natural sort of the slopes and things

[0:55:01] Trustee Patrick: of that nature that and then we have climate change um risks that are changing with sea level

[0:55:07] Trustee Patrick: rise and other things so um it can either stay the way it is but i'm just raising that as a question

[0:55:12] Trustee Patrick: should there be two separate policies to allow you know for change that's going to be happening

[0:55:18] Trustee Patrick: perhaps and more adaptive adaptive adaptive the only other word i am kind of a bit concerned about

[0:55:24] Trustee Patrick: elevated risk um you know uh with all your wildfire resiliency uh plans that are being

[0:55:32] Trustee Patrick: done by your regional districts for your islands um they have you know moderate and severe risk

[0:55:39] Trustee Patrick: categories and there's different things that happen in different risk categories so elevated

[0:55:43] Trustee Patrick: risk. I mean, it either stays vague and we know what it means, but elevated, you know, we all have

[0:55:50] Trustee Patrick: elevated risks, but which risks require action? So it can either stay the way it is, but it is

[0:55:59] Trustee Patrick: a bit vague. And do we consider splitting it? And I'm also one, I guess, do we not have advocacy

[0:56:08] Trustee Patrick: policies anymore because I realize our regional districts are the ones that do the get the grant

[0:56:15] Trustee Patrick: funds for wildfire mapping and sea level rise mapping and um you know so we need to have a

[0:56:23] Trustee Patrick: cooperative relationship with the regional districts on especially the climate change

[0:56:27] Trustee Patrick: issues can

[0:56:31] Voice 12: we come back to the question on advisory advisory policies after we'll come

[0:56:37] Voice 12: back to that but that is a good point trustee evans and then trustee graham thank

[0:56:43] Voice 17: you um yes

[0:56:45] Voice 17: thanks a lot for this work it's uh it's been it was a good read um i have a recommendation

[0:56:52] Voice 17: to change the word restrict to uh regulate uh based on the the meanings of the word so

[0:57:01] Voice 17: regulation and ref area while restriction is a more specific limitation or constraint that's

[0:57:13] Voice 17: actually placed on an activity often within the framework of a larger regulation so i know that

[0:57:20] Voice 17: we were having a lot of conversation around this and how the meaning was going to be interpreted

[0:57:26] Voice 17: so um if we and i and i do like the the um the wording elevated risk so identify areas at

[0:57:33] Voice 17: elevated risks and we had a whole conversation around this of the natural and climate change

[0:57:38] Voice 17: related hazard and regulate development within them, including, but not limited to. The regulation

[0:57:46] Voice 17: gives us a broader use of tools, whereas restricting is very specific. So that would

[0:57:56] Voice 17: be my suggestion. I will let us think about that and see how people feel. And if we're okay,

[0:58:02] Voice 17: then I'll make a motion to that later.

[0:58:05] Voice 12: Thank you for that suggestion, Trustee Graham.

[0:58:07] Voice 12: Thank

[0:58:08] Voice 6: you, Chair. I can appreciate that the Oxford Dictionary meaning of the word restrict allows something to happen.

[0:58:19] Voice 6: But the layperson's understanding of restrict is a no-go.

[0:58:23] Voice 6: And anecdotally, I was the chair of the Gabriola Local Trust Committee many years ago when the staff presented a map of high-risk areas on public land.

[0:58:34] Voice 6: And that meeting was a lynch mob.

[0:58:38] Voice 6: They wanted to lynch the trustees and anybody else that was responsible because what the population understood was that they would not be able to build on that piece of property they'd owned for generationally because it was labeled as a high-risk area.

[0:58:54] Voice 6: Anyway, so I'm worried about the word restrict.

[0:58:57] Voice 6: I don't know what I would change it to, but I just don't like that word.

[0:59:01] Voice 6: And the other policies which exist on other local governments do have wildfires.

[0:59:07] Voice 6: So I would actually put wild in front of fire again.

[0:59:10] Voice 6: I think it kind of makes sense, climate change, wildfire, as opposed to just fires.

[0:59:16] Voice 6: As Trustee Patrick says, we have chimney fires on a regular basis around here.

[0:59:21] Voice 6: So those are my suggestions, my comments.

[0:59:27] Voice 12: This is great.

[0:59:28] Voice 12: Right. So I'm hearing a potential change from restrict to regulate and consideration of wildfire from fire.

[0:59:39] Voice 12: So, Trustee Evans, Trustee Fast and then Trustee Yates.

[0:59:43] Voice 17: I was just going to make the motions to those two effects because nobody else had their hands up.

[0:59:47] Voice 17: So I will listen to the first two first and then I'll come back.

[0:59:53] Voice 17: Trustee Fast.

[0:59:55] Trustee Fast: Thank you. I wasn't sure who was first.

[0:59:57] Trustee Fast: I wonder about.

[1:00:00] Trustee Fast: The word regulate, because it seems to me that regulating involves enforcement and it's more expensive and more monitoring and all those things, whereas restricting means, to me, lines on your official community plan that outline where the hazardous areas are.

[1:00:31] Trustee Fast: where land development can be restricted.

[1:00:36] Trustee Fast: And yeah, people don't like lines

[1:00:39] Trustee Fast: that go on their private property.

[1:00:42] Trustee Fast: But personally, I'm itching to look at in more detail

[1:00:45] Trustee Fast: at the input now that we received already

[1:00:48] Trustee Fast: from First Nations, see what they say.

[1:00:51] Trustee Fast: But, and regarding fire, I'm okay with the word fire

[1:00:56] Trustee Fast: because wildfire is not what it used to be.

[1:01:01] Trustee Fast: Now they're explosive, and fire behavior is different.

[1:01:06] Trustee Fast: And you can look at California, or you can look at Jasper, or you can look at Lytton.

[1:01:12] Trustee Fast: It's actually not necessarily wild.

[1:01:18] Trustee Fast: I think they may start anywhere in a community or near a community,

[1:01:25] Trustee Fast: and it's not so much the fire moving.

[1:01:29] Trustee Fast: Anyway, they're different.

[1:01:30] Trustee Fast: It's not the wildfire that we knew in years gone by, and I think there's also prescribed fires, and there are cultural fires and different kinds of fires, and I'm not sure that those qualify as wild, and I think we need to think about them in terms of hazard areas as well.

[1:01:59] Trustee Fast: Well, so I actually have been talked around.

[1:02:03] Trustee Fast: I was doing the other thing last time we talked,

[1:02:05] Trustee Fast: which is probably a good sign for the discussion.

[1:02:08] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[1:02:08] Trustee Fast: So I'm in favor of keeping the word restrict and the word fire.

[1:02:14] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[1:02:17] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:02:17] Voice 12: Trustee Yates and Trustee Peterson.

[1:02:19] Voice 3: Thank you, Chair Elliott.

[1:02:21] Voice 3: Yeah, I'm kind of like Trustee Fast.

[1:02:24] Voice 3: I've been talked around into considering the broader definition of fire even though we often

[1:02:32] Voice 3: you know really do think of wildfire as being the really big danger and I'm in favor of using the

[1:02:39] Voice 3: word restrict as long as it has a you know a note there that says it does not mean prohibit

[1:02:46] Voice 3: and the reason I'm in favor of that is because regulate just means to regulate is like you can

[1:02:52] Voice 3: going to have a regulator when you go diving and it just regulates your air it it doesn't

[1:02:56] Voice 3: necessarily mean restrict and um actually i have total um i have total sympathy for trustee graham

[1:03:04] Voice 3: i was at that meeting on gabriola in the audience i was reporting on it and i remember it and i

[1:03:12] Voice 3: think we just have to be really really really careful about defining restrict thank you so

[1:03:21] Voice 12: Sorry, can I clarify, you're not in favor of the word restrict, or you are?

[1:03:26] Voice 12: Sorry,

[1:03:27] Voice 3: I am. I am in favor of the word restrict, as long as it has that definition.

[1:03:31] Voice 3: A definition is necessary.

[1:03:33] Voice 12: That does not

[1:03:34] Voice 3: necessarily mean prohibit.

[1:03:35] Voice 3: Okay, thank you for that.

[1:03:37] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson, then Trustee Borthwick.

[1:03:40] Voice 23: Well, perfect for me to follow up on, Trustee Yates. I was going to suggest the same thing.

[1:03:46] Voice 23: let's uh stick with restrict and clarify in the glossary which we have one of that it does not

[1:03:53] Voice 23: mean prohibit um and then further on the fire versus wildfire i support wildfire thank you

[1:04:00] Voice 23: thank

[1:04:01] Voice 12: you trustee forthwick

[1:04:03] Voice 13: i'm going to be very boring here and say that i

[1:04:07] Voice 13: agree with what tim has just said um yeah i i would share that um uh trustee yates

[1:04:14] Voice 13: perspective on restrict regulate to me is is just create paperwork around a thing not uh it's it's

[1:04:23] Voice 13: yeah it did and and i and you know and and i take trustee graham's point that restrict to the layman

[1:04:29] Voice 13: does not mean what it means to everybody else but also i think it is important to have that

[1:04:34] Voice 13: stronger language and yeah put it define it in in the terms and i think we solve our problem

[1:04:38] Voice 13: you can cite that if you have an issue with it

[1:04:43] Voice 12: trustee evans is coming back with a recommendation

[1:04:46] Voice 12: or emotion um

[1:04:48] Voice 17: no i'm just i now have a clarifying question for staff with regards to the word

[1:04:52] Voice 17: restrict how many times does it appear in the document and is the use of the word restrict

[1:04:58] Voice 17: the same in each in each instance that it's being used and if not then in this sentence here after

[1:05:04] Voice 17: after the word restrict, maybe open brackets and say, not necessarily prohibit and close brackets.

[1:05:11] Voice 17: So that would actually put it in there if there are cases where restrict really does mean prohibit

[1:05:16] Voice 17: in other areas of the document.

[1:05:21] Voice 1: Through the chair, I'll just do a quick keyword search here and

[1:05:25] Voice 1: report back momentarily.

[1:05:29] Voice 12: So how do we want to make a decision on this when we get to that point? Yes,

[1:05:32] Voice 12: Yes, Trustee Evans, I see you.

[1:05:34] Voice 12: Are straw polls allowed, Director Merler?

[1:05:37] Voice 17: I was going to propose a motion for the word wildfire

[1:05:42] Voice 17: because it seems that there's a difference of opinion

[1:05:45] Voice 17: floating through here and then we can close it.

[1:05:48] Voice 17: Cool, okay.

[1:05:49] Voice 17: Trustee Patrick?

[1:05:51] Trustee Patrick: I went and read a bunch of stuff as well

[1:05:54] Trustee Patrick: when preparing for this.

[1:05:56] Trustee Patrick: And some of them use like either avoid slash mitigate

[1:05:59] Trustee Patrick: or restrict slash mitigate

[1:06:01] Trustee Patrick: and add the word mitigate right there as well because some some of it is mitigated so

[1:06:08] Trustee Patrick: possibility just

[1:06:13] Voice 1: to update everybody the word restrict does not presently uh occur in the

[1:06:18] Voice 1: document uh the word restriction appears twice in unrelated contexts thank

[1:06:27] Voice 12: you for that

[1:06:27] Trustee Fast: trustee fast

[1:06:30] Trustee Fast: just that restrict restrictions is used in the local government act

[1:06:37] Trustee Fast: so i'm looking at the top of attachment one restrictions on the use of land it's subject

[1:06:42] Trustee Fast: to hazardous conditions or that is environmentally sensitive to development that's what one of the

[1:06:48] Trustee Fast: things official community plan must include thank you thank you trustee yates

[1:06:53] Voice 3: as i mentioned earlier

[1:06:55] Voice 3: I know that restrict is rarely used and that was my point is that this is a place where we need to

[1:07:02] Voice 3: use it thank you okay

[1:07:08] Voice 12: you got cut off there but I think we heard you that may be a trustee Evans

[1:07:15] Voice 12: okay

[1:07:17] Voice 17: so I'm going to move that committee of the whole recommend to trust council

[1:07:25] Voice 17: that the word fire be replaced with wildfire and we can put that to a vote and see how it

[1:07:32] Voice 17: falls out here so

[1:07:37] Voice 12: just before i have a seconder i have a question um since the current draft

[1:07:44] Voice 12: includes the world word wildfire we essentially could vote on eliminating the last recommendation

[1:07:53] Voice 12: to replace wildfire with fire how does this work

[1:07:58] Voice 17: however which way i i we just need to vote on

[1:08:02] Voice 17: whether it's fire or wildfire and then move

[1:08:05] Voice 12: on in policy uh 3.4.6 okay sorry

[1:08:20] Voice 26: what's the policy

[1:08:20] Voice 26: number 3

[1:08:21] Voice 12: .4.6 okay

[1:08:23] Voice 26: and

[1:08:28] Voice 12: i see trustee peterson yeah

[1:08:34] Voice 23: i was gonna i was gonna uh ask the same

[1:08:36] Voice 23: question about uh but i do i i seem to remember we actually did a little bit of other wordsmithing on

[1:08:41] Voice 23: it so i think it's simpler to just do the wildfire piece and i'll second the motion

[1:08:49] Voice 12: agreed thank you for that uh trustee peterson seconds so discussion on the motion or the

[1:08:56] Voice 12: recommendation rather okay i'll call for the vote all those in favor of the recommendation

[1:09:07] Voice 12: and 15

[1:09:11] Voice 12: i see okay lower your hands

[1:09:13] Voice 26: there are 16 trustees and any opposed

[1:09:17] Voice 12: when opposed and that is carried thank you okay does somebody have another motion to amend this

[1:09:31] Voice 12: or to move the recommended or staff recommended policy trustee Evans hi

[1:09:39] Voice 15: there got us through fair

[1:09:40] Voice 15: going to Otter

[1:09:42] Voice 25: Bay, Tender, Otter Bay.

[1:09:46] Voice 25: This is

[1:09:46] Voice 10: such a BC Ferries moment.

[1:09:48] Voice 1: I got a horse

[1:09:49] Voice 25: on the boat.

[1:09:50] Voice 25: The Leland

[1:09:50] Voice 1: Islands Trust meeting.

[1:09:52] I love it.

[1:09:54] Trustee Fast: The bowling

[1:09:54] Voice 12: ferries running again.

[1:09:57] Voice 12: I love Dig.

[1:09:58] Voice 12: I love Trustee Falk's commitment.

[1:10:00] Voice 12: I'm standing outside of my barn looking at the stars, by the way,

[1:10:04] Voice 12: so your chair is committed to this meeting.

[1:10:07] Voice 12: Trustee Evans, go ahead.

[1:10:08] Voice 17: ahead um i i i i moved that um uh committee of the whole recommend to trust council that

[1:10:18] Voice 17: i got one

[1:10:20] Voice 17: bale of hay and i filled in the form did you get that

[1:10:26] Voice 12: one bale of hay and we filled

[1:10:27] Voice 12: in the form you shouldn't have to declare on gabriel you only have to declare up to five

[1:10:32] Voice 12: Why bails of hay?

[1:10:35] Voice 17: That after the word restrict, we add in a slash mitigate and open to discussion on that.

[1:10:48] Voice 12: Great.

[1:10:49] Voice 12: So before it seconded, just for clarity, after the word restrict, elevated risk.

[1:10:55] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:10:56] Voice 12: Actually, sorry, David Marler, could you go back to the top of, sorry, page 13?

[1:11:04] Voice 12: I

[1:11:07] Voice 17: was going to say, I'm not sure if the slash mitigate or having in Bracken's but does not prohibit is better.

[1:11:17] Voice 17: I'm not sure which one is better, to be honest.

[1:11:22] Voice 17: So I'll leave that for people to decide.

[1:11:24] Voice 17: We can have a chat about it.

[1:11:28] Voice 12: So would restrict M- not necessarily prohibit M- development or restrict with a definition or restrict mitigate?

[1:11:43] Voice 12: Mitigate. Which one are you asking for? And I see trustee Dodds.

[1:11:48] Voice 4: I just wanted to express a concern about the word mitigate, because to me, that's going to be very difficult to define and how you're going to, it's more of an action word, rather than a suggested dealing with your property.

[1:12:09] Voice 4: So I'm just don't like the word mitigate. I don't think it's going to do.

[1:12:14] Voice 4: I think it's going to create more problems than help.

[1:12:17] Voice 12: Thank you, Trustee Dodds, Trustee Evans.

[1:12:20] Voice 12: And I will just say that that is perhaps a different policy.

[1:12:23] Voice 12: Trustee Evans and Peterson and Borthwick.

[1:12:26] Voice 17: OK, so I would like to change it then to to say restrict, but not necessarily prohibit.

[1:12:39] Voice 12: So you are. Yeah. OK, great.

[1:12:53] Voice 17: Remove the word restrict

[1:12:57] Voice 17: because we're adding. Yeah.

[1:12:59] Voice 17: Thank you. Perfect. Thanks.

[1:13:03] Voice 12: Thank you. Trustee Peterson.

[1:13:07] Voice 23: I guess I should wait

[1:13:09] Voice 23: until someone seconds it because I just wanted to comment on it.

[1:13:15] Voice 12: Okay. Do I have a seconder? Trustee Borthwick. Thank you.

[1:13:21] Voice 12: And we go back

[1:13:24] Voice 12: to Trustee Peterson and Trustee Borthwick.

[1:13:28] Voice 13: I'm happy with it as it now is

[1:13:30] Voice 13: Go

[1:13:40] Voice 12: ahead there, sorry I lost connection

[1:13:42] Voice 12: Go ahead who?

[1:13:44] Voice 23: Trustee Peterson

[1:13:45] Voice 23: Yeah thank you

[1:13:47] Voice 23: I'm not in favor of the recommendation

[1:13:50] Voice 23: I still support

[1:13:52] Voice 23: sticking with restrict

[1:13:54] Voice 23: and

[1:13:56] Voice 23: if we need to

[1:13:58] Voice 23: make the clarity then let's

[1:14:00] Voice 23: put it in the glossary

[1:14:01] Voice 23: Thank you

[1:14:03] Voice 12: Thank you on the motion Trustee Yates

[1:14:07] Voice 12: I

[1:14:08] Voice 3: agree with trustee Peterson put it in the glossary

[1:14:13] Voice 12: trustee Bernardo yeah

[1:14:18] Voice 25: to say something

[1:14:20] Voice 25: like restrict but not actually prohibit is the same as saying you're under obligation to manage

[1:14:27] Voice 25: development because it's it's wide open it's simply a question of just having a look at it

[1:14:32] Voice 25: and managing which is in fact what we always do about everything with every bylaw the original

[1:14:39] Voice 25: meaning of this seems to have been to constrain, restrict, not prohibit, but create a certain

[1:14:50] Voice 25: bias with a view to limiting development in a responsible way in areas of high risk.

[1:15:01] Voice 25: So some phrase like responsible limitations or whatever, or maybe just use the word restrict,

[1:15:10] Voice 25: Uh, I, I think, um, I think the word restrict should probably just stay as it is.

[1:15:16] Voice 25: So I don't think I can support this, um, this one.

[1:15:18] Voice 25: Thank you.

[1:15:21] Voice 12: Thank you, Trustee Bernardo.

[1:15:23] Voice 12: Any more speakers on the motion?

[1:15:26] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:15:27] Voice 12: I'll call for the vote.

[1:15:28] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo, if you could put your hand down.

[1:15:31] Voice 12: All those in favor.

[1:15:32] Voice 1: Before you call the vote, uh, Chair Elliott,

[1:15:34] Voice 1: can I maybe just

[1:15:35] Voice 1: ask, uh, I don't know, David

[1:15:37] Voice 1: Marler's counsel or something, the actual thing.

[1:15:39] Voice 1: so the word restrict does not currently appear in the draft policy statement that's right I

[1:15:47] Voice 1: in my request for decision have suggested a revision to the wording that is in the draft

[1:15:53] Voice 1: policy statement and that's where the word restrict appears so I don't know if you want

[1:16:00] Voice 1: to revisit my recommended revision and revise that and then adopt that revision as and I'm

[1:16:07] Voice 12: A motion to table this, I think, and then we can table this motion, and then we can go to your motion.

[1:16:19] Voice 12: Trustee Dodds?

[1:16:21] Voice 4: I move that we table this motion.

[1:16:24] Voice 12: Thank you.

[1:16:25] Voice 25: Second.

[1:16:27] Voice 12: Seconded.

[1:16:30] Voice 12: All those in favor?

[1:16:31] Voice 12: What does that mean, table it?

[1:16:34] Voice 12: It's to lay it aside to consider.

[1:16:37] Voice 12: Until later in the meeting or until when?

[1:16:39] Voice 12: Yeah, you lay it on the table, I think.

[1:16:41] Voice 12: Is that right, David Marlar?

[1:16:43] Voice 26: Yeah, table in motion means that somebody will have to remember to put it back on the floor later.

[1:16:50] Voice 12: Right.

[1:16:50] Voice 26: Otherwise, it just stays there and it can just die.

[1:16:54] Voice 12: 9, 10, 11, 12, 8 counted, 12.

[1:17:00] Voice 12: Hands are moving.

[1:17:03] Voice 12: Okay, please lower your hands.

[1:17:06] Voice 12: Any opposed?

[1:17:10] Voice 12: 3, 2, 2 opposed.

[1:17:14] Voice 12: Trustee Bernard is confused.

[1:17:16] Voice 12: One opposed. Okay. So, tabling the motion is carried. So, would somebody like to move the staff-recommended motion or amend it so that we can have discussion on that?

[1:17:33] Trustee Patrick: I can move it.

[1:17:34] Voice 12: Thank

[1:17:35] Trustee Patrick: you. Trustee Patrick?

[1:17:35] Trustee Patrick: I move that the Committee of the Whole recommends that Trust Council revise proposed Directive Policy 346 to read, identify areas and elevated risk of natural and climate change-related hazards, and restrict development within them, including but not limited to areas subject to flooding, sea level rise, erosion, slope stability, and wildfire.

[1:17:58] Trustee Patrick: Thank

[1:18:00] Voice 12: you. Do you have a seconder? Trustee Yates? Thank you. Discussion on the motion? Trustee Hunter?

[1:18:13] Voice 19: Thank you, Chair. I'm a little concerned about the but not limited to. So, hmm. I wonder what that means. I'm not going to vote for this one. Thank you.

[1:18:28] Voice 12: Can you articulate your concern? Not limited to?

[1:18:34] Voice 19: Well, I mean, we've got flooding, sea level rise, erosion, slope and visibility, wildfire.

[1:18:39] Voice 19: What about not limited to what else?

[1:18:43] Voice 12: Right.

[1:18:44] Voice 19: Yeah, I mean.

[1:18:45] Voice 19: So

[1:18:46] Voice 12: your question is, is the clause not limited to, does that open to?

[1:18:50] Voice 19: Yeah, just get rid of that, those four words.

[1:18:53] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:18:54] Voice 12: Well, we have a motion on the floor.

[1:18:56] Voice 12: So thank you for that, Trustee Fast.

[1:18:59] Voice 26: Sorry, could I just interrupt?

[1:19:00] Voice 26: Yeah.

[1:19:01] Voice 26: Sorry, I didn't get the second there.

[1:19:02] Voice 26: oh

[1:19:03] Voice 12: um that went fast i believe it was

[1:19:07] Voice 12: trustee yates thank you yes that's what yes

[1:19:10] Voice 26: and can you

[1:19:11] Voice 26: just confirm that i've got the wording correct have you added something other than wild i may

[1:19:17] Voice 26: have missed

[1:19:17] Voice 26: it okay thank you trustee

[1:19:20] Trustee Fast: fast and trustee getty okay two things one is uh another

[1:19:25] Trustee Fast: example of what these risks are not limited to is uh boulders that break off above and huge chunks

[1:19:32] Trustee Fast: chunks of rocks and they roll down below. And that's something that's in our official community

[1:19:38] Trustee Fast: plan. There is a hazardous few properties that have those big boulders rolling into them.

[1:19:46] Trustee Fast: Secondly, I just wanted to check that the mover had read the words slopes stability and that she

[1:19:56] Trustee Fast: meant slope instability as it's written. Yes,

[1:20:01] Trustee Fast: I meant instability

[1:20:03] Trustee Patrick: as it's written.

[1:20:03] Trustee Patrick: thank

[1:20:04] Trustee Fast: you I'm in support thank

[1:20:07] Voice 12: you for those comments trustee Getty thank

[1:20:13] Voice 2: you I think in

[1:20:14] Voice 2: with response to trustee Hunter that I don't I feel like this is a fairly decent I like this

[1:20:22] Voice 2: wording because I don't know that we necessarily know all the change related hazards climate change

[1:20:27] Voice 2: related hazards that might come up so you know it's a fairly extensive list but it may not be

[1:20:34] Voice 2: be perfect so um it is change climate change related or natural and it is respect we're

[1:20:42] Voice 2: talking about hazards so um i like it uh to be open in terms of trying to restrict hazards

[1:20:50] Voice 2: thank you

[1:20:53] Voice 4: trustee dodds i just would support what trustee getty just said i think that well

[1:20:59] Voice 4: it is not we we can't obviously lay out every single issue that could come up in the future

[1:21:06] Voice 4: And because the policy statement is hard to change, we need to leave this as an open door because there could be other things that arise in the future.

[1:21:16] Voice 12: Thank you. Any more speakers on the recommendation?

[1:21:22] Voice 12: Okay, so I will call for a vote on the motion on the screen. All those in favor, please raise your hand.

[1:21:33] Voice 12: I count 14. Lower your hands.

[1:21:40] Voice 12: And any opposed? Trustee Hunter? Sorry, one opposed.

[1:21:45] Voice 12: Opposed? That is carried. Okay. So Trustee Evans?

[1:21:54] Voice 17: I think that we have to make a motion then to add that the word restrict does not necessarily mean prohibit to the glossary.

[1:22:06] Voice 12: So a recommendation to add a definition to the word restrict to the glossary.

[1:22:14] Voice 17: Yes.

[1:22:14] Voice 17: Great. So

[1:22:16] Voice 12: do you want to just read that out?

[1:22:17] Voice 17: So I move that Committee of the Whole recommend to Trust Council to ask staff to add the definition of the word restrict with the meaning to not necessarily prohibit to the glossary.

[1:22:37] Voice 12: Thank you. Moved. And do I have a seconder? Trustee Peterson? Or is that Yates? Sorry, who seconded?

[1:22:46] Voice 12: I

[1:22:47] Voice 23: got there first this time.

[1:22:48] Voice 23: Okay,

[1:22:49] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson, thank you. On the motion, any discussion? Okay, all those in favor? 14 in favor. Lower your hands. Any opposed? And none opposed. That is carried. Okay, so we have accepted the staff recommended definition with restriction is going to be defined in the glossary.

[1:23:20] Voice 12: any more work on this section we're back to wildfire congratulations we have moved through

[1:23:29] Voice 12: one policy committee okay go down to page so we're starting in directive policies with housing

[1:23:45] Voice 12: 3.4.9 this is on page 35 um just to bring the rest of this group into the conversation we

[1:23:57] Voice 12: We didn't have quorums, so we had sort of a wide-ranging discussion,

[1:24:02] Voice 12: and many commented that it was a refreshing discussion

[1:24:06] Voice 12: to not have to speak to motions and let our creativity expand somewhat.

[1:24:18] Voice 12: So does anyone come prepared with any direction to staff

[1:24:24] Voice 12: or wanting to explore?

[1:24:25] Voice 12: Or David, could you move down just a bit so that we can see 3.4.9 at the top?

[1:24:32] Voice 12: We're starting there.

[1:24:34] Voice 12: Yeah.

[1:24:38] Voice 12: So I had some recommendations.

[1:24:40] Voice 12: I don't want to push those forward first.

[1:24:47] Voice 12: Appropriate locations for densification.

[1:24:49] Voice 12: Do we have any amendments on this one?

[1:24:51] Voice 12: No.

[1:24:59] Voice 12: Speakers?

[1:25:01] Voice 12: Trustee Boland.

[1:25:04] Voice 16: Where did the redlining version come from?

[1:25:06] Voice 16: I don't understand why we're not starting on 3410 given that we that one

[1:25:13] Voice 16: is redlined already sure

[1:25:19] Voice 12: I was starting broadly in the housing policies I did

[1:25:28] Voice 12: have a question about whether affordable could be changed to attainable but if

[1:25:33] Voice 12: it's not that critical okay three four ten any discussion on this one yes trustee Patrick

[1:25:51] Trustee Patrick: yeah I was just gonna back just before I go on the affordable question I know I attended a meeting

[1:25:57] Trustee Patrick: of the southern gulf islands on housing that Adam Olson was the guest speaker a couple of weeks ago

[1:26:01] Trustee Patrick: and he's really settled in on the word secure housing so I just thought I'd share that or

[1:26:07] Trustee Patrick: housing security sorry um that's the terms just another interesting one to have out there

[1:26:12] Trustee Patrick: short-term rentals i know we're in a housing section but we now um i had advocated for a

[1:26:18] Trustee Patrick: tourism section to be added in the i i lost that debate so now this is the only place that

[1:26:24] Trustee Patrick: tourism is really other than whatever we had before just sort of mentioned as an economic issue

[1:26:31] Trustee Patrick: you um i've done we had a short-term rental uh round table here on salt spring recently

[1:26:39] Trustee Patrick: i've done a lot of preparing for it and a lot of the conversations now are really around

[1:26:43] Trustee Patrick: over tourism and making sure that we're focusing um our choices on recognizing

[1:26:51] Trustee Patrick: you know community well-being as being sort of the priority so it's it's i know we're saying

[1:26:55] Trustee Patrick: affordable housing but we want we want it to not be taking away we don't want to be taking away from

[1:27:02] Trustee Patrick: housing um but also about um you know maximizing or you know maintaining the the social and

[1:27:14] Trustee Patrick: environmental well-being or community and environmental well-being um somehow being

[1:27:20] Trustee Patrick: mentioned um because it's not just affordable housing that's directing our choices and like

[1:27:26] Trustee Patrick: Like I said, this is the only place short-term rentals are here.

[1:27:29] Trustee Patrick: But over-tourism is a very real thing now, and this is a direct component to that.

[1:27:37] Trustee Patrick: I don't have a specific recommendation other than to, you know.

[1:27:44] Trustee Patrick: I

[1:27:45] Voice 12: have an idea, Trustee Patrick, on that.

[1:27:48] Trustee Patrick: You do, good.

[1:27:48] Voice 12: So what about local dress committees shall strive to balance tourism-related activities with community well-being?

[1:28:04] Voice 12: And that's kind of an advisory policy to me, but if we're going to lean into balancing tourism versus community well-being, I think it's more of an advisory policy.

[1:28:21] Voice 12: see. I did put my hand up because I think we do need something that's actually, I struggle with

[1:28:32] Voice 12: the words, identify and assess the impacts of short-term rentals. That's a very, kind of a

[1:28:40] Voice 12: tall order. But I'd like to hear other speakers on that. Trustee Graham, Trustee Getty.

[1:28:51] Voice 6: Thank you. Thank you, Trustee Patrick, for just suggesting that this could be broader.

[1:28:56] Voice 6: And I would actually wait until we have the Hornby trustees at Trust Council to address the other impacts of short-term vacation rentals.

[1:29:05] Voice 6: I don't think there's an island in the Islands Trust area that has been impacted as severely or as recognizably than Hornby.

[1:29:12] Voice 6: So they might have some really great language that they can add to that.

[1:29:16] Voice 6: The rest of us, you know, we could wordsmith this for a while, but they are the authorities as far as I'm concerned.

[1:29:23] Voice 12: That's a good point there, Trustee Getty, then Trustee Dodds, Trustee Boland.

[1:29:34] Voice 2: I'm a little concerned about wordsmithing in terms of trying to figure out what it is we're trying to get at and then how to word something.

[1:29:43] Voice 2: So at this point, rather than trying to deal with all those details, can we put this one over to ask staff for some recommendations with respect to how to work in concepts?

[1:30:00] Voice 2: you know the balance between affordable housing and tourism and the health of the community you

[1:30:08] Voice 2: know we're trying to expand it into something that is quite complex and I think that we can

[1:30:15] Voice 2: spend a lot of time tonight trying to figure it out and it would be helpful to get some options

[1:30:21] Voice 12: okay that's a good suggestion and trusty Patrick I see you have your hand back up I'll come back

[1:30:26] Voice 12: to you if that's okay. No, I didn't, but

[1:30:29] Voice 4: I'll try to draw something.

[1:30:31] Voice 12: Trustee Dodds, then Boland,

[1:30:33] Voice 12: then Evans. I

[1:30:35] Voice 4: agree totally with what Trustee Getty just said. I think we need some short-term

[1:30:41] Voice 4: vacation rentals, but I think we also have to find that balance. So wording that would give

[1:30:46] Voice 4: us that without us going through this in great detail would be very helpful.

[1:30:52] Voice 16: Okay, thank you.

[1:30:53] Voice 16: trustee poland yeah i i agree with what's said i do take the point that in a directive policy

[1:31:01] Voice 16: identify and assess the impact is probably a good thing to have there because it's an instruction

[1:31:07] Voice 16: really to recognize that it has an impact um after that you know figuring out how to manage that

[1:31:16] Voice 16: impact i agree if we could have some recommendations one thing i think that should be considered is

[1:31:23] Voice 16: it's not just a number it's actually the what's the word the dispersal maybe because you know

[1:31:32] Voice 16: you could have three but if they're next to each other in a neighborhood they create a big problem

[1:31:39] Voice 16: but if there's one here and one there and one somewhere else it's not so bad so the actual

[1:31:46] Voice 16: actual location of them or the density of them I suppose is what I'm talking about is something to

[1:31:53] Voice 16: be considered thanks thank

[1:31:55] Voice 12: you for that trustee Evans and then I'm going to go to director Freider

[1:31:59] Voice 12: and then trustee Yates I

[1:32:01] Voice 17: was going to say because this is directive I like the wording the way that

[1:32:05] Voice 17: it is right now it gives the the LTC the opportunity to take a look at the assessments

[1:32:13] Voice 17: assessments of the short-term rentals on their island and come up with plans accordingly. We

[1:32:18] Voice 17: don't have to really break it into the minutiae and micromanage how we do that at this level.

[1:32:25] Voice 17: So I'm in favor of keeping the words the way that they are, and I'm happy to hear from staff if

[1:32:31] Voice 17: they've got alternate suggestions.

[1:32:35] Voice 12: Thank you. I'll go to Director Freider and then Trustee Yates.

[1:32:40] Voice 18: David, if you could just scroll up with regard to the discussions around sort of

[1:32:44] Voice 18: managing tourism impacts. I'll just remind you that if you go up to 4.7, that is, as far as my

[1:32:51] Voice 18: perspective is, just a little bit up further to 4.7. Sorry, the other way.

[1:32:57] Voice 12: Or in section three,

[1:33:01] Voice 12: 2.7?

[1:33:03] Voice 18: No, right here, economic activities. So I think

[1:33:06] Voice 18: from staff's perspective, this policy

[1:33:08] Voice 18: around economic activity is intended to be all encompassing of economic activity, including

[1:33:13] Voice 18: including tourism. So as you're contemplating asking for additional ideas from staff,

[1:33:18] Voice 18: it's our perspective that this document is meant to be read as a whole. This policy may be

[1:33:23] Voice 18: sufficient to achieve what you're talking about in terms of this, you know, having economic

[1:33:28] Voice 18: activities that are compatible with the unique amenities of the trust, which I think you're

[1:33:34] Voice 18: interpreting to include community character. So as you contemplate whether to ask for additional

[1:33:39] Voice 18: staff advice, I would remind you of this policy that you've got already. So thank you.

[1:33:44] Voice 12: Thank you, Director Fritter. And Trustee Yates.

[1:33:48] Voice 3: Thank you, Chair Elliott. A couple things, just responding to, I think it was Trustee Dodds, who said that it's not just, you know, the number of short-term vacation rentals, it's the location.

[1:34:02] Voice 3: And so one of the things that the Gabriola Local Trust Committee has, which works so well, is when we approve a temporary use permit for a short-term vacation rental, we have an extensive checklist that we've developed with staff.

[1:34:19] Voice 3: And one of the things we added, I don't know, maybe about a year ago, was the actual, how many other vacation rentals are in that same neighborhood?

[1:34:30] Voice 3: Because that's what really affects the demeanor of the neighborhood and the availability of parking and water and all that kind of stuff.

[1:34:41] Voice 3: So I'd be inclined to keep it just as it is.

[1:34:44] Voice 3: and keeping in mind that it's not just if you're trying to think of long-term rentals on your

[1:34:50] Voice 3: island there's no guarantee of course that you know refusing short-term vacation rentals will

[1:34:56] Voice 3: will guarantee long-term rentals but it certainly opens the door to long-term rentals because

[1:35:03] Voice 3: having short-term vacation rentals doesn't just affect the availability of long-term rentals it

[1:35:09] Voice 3: affects the cost of long-term rentals so we really need to keep that in mind thank you

[1:35:17] Voice 3: thank you trustee peterson yeah

[1:35:20] Voice 23: uh thank you there just putting on my uh my hornby chair hat

[1:35:25] Voice 23: in response to trustee graham um hornby i believe is the only uh local trust area that has a wide

[1:35:34] Voice 23: open uh situation on short-term vacation rentals and the local trust committee is working on

[1:35:43] Voice 23: essentially doing what this policy is is saying uh identifying and assessing the impacts

[1:35:50] Voice 23: and looking at how um to regulate and um uh happy to hear about the uh checklist that trustee yates

[1:36:03] Voice 23: just mentioned. And if you could email me or the Hornby LTC a copy, I think it would be great if

[1:36:09] Voice 23: we get our eyes on that. Thank you. And I'm good with it how it is. Thank

[1:36:13] Voice 12: you, Trustee Peterson

[1:36:14] Voice 12: and Trustee Evans.

[1:36:16] Voice 17: I was going to ask the exact same thing, Trustee Yates. Would you be willing

[1:36:19] Voice 17: to share that checklist? Because I think that would be a really good tool for us as well.

[1:36:26] Voice 3: Yes, and it's certainly not mine. It's a local trust committees. And I think we added this,

[1:36:31] Voice 3: that one well i know i added it about a year ago about okay how many of those short-term vacation

[1:36:38] Voice 3: rentals are in that neighborhood and that was one thing but the staff already had a really extensive

[1:36:44] Voice 3: checklist before you know and um and i'm sure trustee elliott has added to it as well and so

[1:36:51] Voice 3: i'd be very happy to get the staff to email it to uh sorry that would be trustee peterson and who

[1:36:58] Voice 3: who else trustee evans and trustee evans okay and trustee boland okay so saterna um

[1:37:06] Voice 3: me

[1:37:07] Voice 12: too just everyone you

[1:37:09] Trustee Fast: just copy all trustees

[1:37:10] Voice 12: that's great good

[1:37:11] Trustee Fast: idea i see you trustee fast

[1:37:13] Trustee Fast: uh thank you i was just going to say we have a different situation on bowen island in that we

[1:37:20] Trustee Fast: have business licenses and we've tied them in but very similarly uh um trying to

[1:37:27] Trustee Fast: to limit the amounts, partly to encourage long-term rentals. And there's some different

[1:37:38] Trustee Fast: things in there, like which seasons and how many days total out of a year. So it could be

[1:37:46] Trustee Fast: all weekends, or could it be such a chunk of the year, like in the summer. So anyway,

[1:37:55] Trustee Fast: there there are different options there and it was designed with community input so if people

[1:38:01] Trustee Fast: would like i'll send that around as well look

[1:38:05] Voice 12: at all this great information sharing um okay

[1:38:08] Voice 12: so unless i hear a recommendation to amend 3.4.10 it will stay as is and reminder that the document

[1:38:18] Voice 12: is to be read as a whole we've got support in 3.4.7 so if i'm not hearing anything else we can

[1:38:26] Voice 12: move on to 3.4.11 and 4.12 okay uh director marler could you move the screen down thanks

[1:38:41] Voice 12: so do we want to ask staff to come back with information or other options for uh 4.10 i know

[1:38:48] Voice 12: that was suggested earlier is this necessary are we pretty satisfied this is uh okay i think we're

[1:38:55] Voice 12: good so i did not receive anything to amend 3.4.11 nor 3.4.12 oh trustee bernardo trustee yates

[1:39:15] Voice 12: trustee patrick yeah

[1:39:19] Voice 25: i'm i uh i would appreciate an explanation from staff as to what is actually

[1:39:25] Voice 25: um i mean i understand the words i understand where it's getting at but um i'd like a bit of

[1:39:33] Voice 25: of an explanation of the connection between floor area and greenhouse gas emissions and

[1:39:39] Voice 25: exactly what we're getting at with here i mean there's a there's an obvious logical connection

[1:39:45] Voice 25: between the size of a place just however large it is i mean the bigger it is the more greenhouse

[1:39:52] Voice 25: gas emissions it's going to necessarily create i mean whatever flooring you're using whatever

[1:39:58] Voice 25: whatever it was, you know, all these manufactured goods that go into it.

[1:40:04] Voice 25: So are we just really talking about here directing local trust committees

[1:40:10] Voice 25: to, in effect, restrict floor area for that purpose?

[1:40:17] Voice 25: It's just not clear to me what we're getting at here

[1:40:19] Voice 25: and what we're trying to achieve.

[1:40:21] Voice 25: Maybe staff could explain how it sees this language working in practice.

[1:40:28] Voice 25: us thank you

[1:40:30] Voice 12: thank you for the question uh jason i see you coming on hand to speak to greenhouse

[1:40:37] Voice 12: gas emissions and how that shows up as a mandated policy for

[1:40:42] Voice 12: local governments i

[1:40:43] Voice 1: mean as it relates

[1:40:44] Voice 1: to this particular policy and perhaps i should have just left my camera off i i i don't necessarily

[1:40:51] Voice 1: see the direct tie like i don't see how assessing the greenhouse gas emissions will help us lead to

[1:40:58] Voice 1: an optimal floor area size to minimize greenhouse gas emissions if that is that is in fact um trustee

[1:41:07] Voice 1: bernardo's question is you know certainly they're they're to trustee bernardo's point

[1:41:13] Voice 1: the smaller a house likely the less greenhouse gas impact that house is going to have however

[1:41:22] Voice 1: However, I'm not sure. It's the, yeah, I don't know if we'll be able to make a direct tie between house size and greenhouse gas impacts and then come up with an optimal house size that will minimize those.

[1:41:40] Voice 12: So I have a clarifying question, if I can. Other places we have put to reduce the negative impacts on the land.

[1:41:53] Voice 12: so is the language greenhouse gas emissions required because of 2010 changes to to do with

[1:42:04] Voice 12: climate change or something that was all local governments had to try to reduce greenhouse gas

[1:42:11] Voice 12: emissions that's what I've heard but is that why that specific phrase appears here because if the

[1:42:20] Voice 12: intent is to limit the negative impacts on the land we should just say that but if we have to

[1:42:24] Voice 12: to link it to greenhouse gas emissions for some reason, it would be good to know why.

[1:42:30] Voice 1: Yeah, unfortunately, this language predates me, and so I'm not sure of why the tie was made between

[1:42:36] Voice 1: floor area limits and greenhouse gas emissions, and maybe not elsewhere in the document where you

[1:42:41] Voice 1: could also say and minimize greenhouse gas emissions for many of the policies that are in

[1:42:47] Voice 1: here.

[1:42:47] Voice 25: Can I ask a follow-up question in response to Mr. Yeoman's point? Jason, I'm struggling now

[1:42:57] Voice 25: because I thought what I heard you say is that you don't think it's feasible really in a practical

[1:43:06] Voice 25: way to assess floor area as against greenhouse gas emissions. So for me, that raises the question,

[1:43:13] Voice 25: like why is this even here then like this assumes it's possible to correlate floor area greenhouse

[1:43:20] Voice 25: gas emissions i believe i correct me if i'm wrong but i believe i heard you effectively say

[1:43:25] Voice 25: yeah that's really hard to do and not really feasible so that to me that raises the question

[1:43:32] Voice 25: is like what's the utility of this thing so uh are you able to answer that thanks uh

[1:43:37] Voice 1: i am able

[1:43:38] Voice 1: to answer it insofar as it would be difficult for the islands trust perhaps to undertake that study

[1:43:43] Voice 1: I have no doubt there is plenty of academic literature on house size and house construction style and greenhouse gas emissions, but how you then turn that into a political decision to optimize the house size that is appropriate for the Gulf Islands relative to the greenhouse gases that they might emit, that is the part that I'm not entirely sure of.

[1:44:11] Voice 1: We can certainly probably report back with information about house size and relative greenhouse gas emissions.

[1:44:20] Voice 1: But of course, that will depend on how the house is heated.

[1:44:23] Voice 1: That will depend on, I mean, obviously, most new houses are going to be built to the BC Building Code.

[1:44:29] Voice 1: So the R value of the home should be well understood.

[1:44:35] Voice 15: Yeah,

[1:44:35] Voice 1: so there's a number of different factors that will go into it, right?

[1:44:38] Voice 1: the amount of solar gain the house has as a result of its position on the land and so the fact that

[1:44:43] Voice 1: it doesn't use to use as much heat um okay

[1:44:47] Voice 12: so it's unclear the link is unclear it

[1:44:50] Voice 1: may be more clear

[1:44:51] Voice 1: to director freighter okay

[1:44:53] Voice 12: can we go to other others uh trustees yates and patrick evans then

[1:44:57] Voice 12: peterson and getty thank

[1:45:00] Voice 3: you just three really quick things um really it's more relevant to

[1:45:04] Voice 3: the negative impacts on the environment because the larger the you know floor area ratio to what

[1:45:11] Voice 3: your your property is you know the more you have to clear the more trees and shrubs and everything

[1:45:16] Voice 3: you have to you have to get rid of in order to build your structure so it probably more directly

[1:45:22] Voice 3: relates to just negative impacts on the environment secondly i still can't read the screen share very

[1:45:30] Voice 3: very well. So if Director Marlowe could just enlarge it a tiny bit. And thirdly, I was going

[1:45:35] Voice 3: to ask if we could have a five-minute break. Thank you.

[1:45:39] Voice 12: Thank you. That is a point of privilege.

[1:45:42] Voice 12: Anyone can ask that at any point. Thank you. Let's have two more speakers and then a five-minute

[1:45:49] Voice 12: break at 7.20. Patrick and then Evans.

[1:45:53] Trustee Patrick: I wanted to talk about the housing agreement, 5-4-12.

[1:45:57] Trustee Patrick: I think the lot coverage one is important, but one I wondered, before I know we didn't deal with some policies where we were getting into tools, and housing agreement is a tool, and we started talking about that before.

[1:46:13] Trustee Patrick: But if we're going to leave the housing agreements here, I know I have some language that Jason was kind enough to suggest back on how to perhaps improve this one to deal with flexibility and other issues that are critical to the importance of if you are going to use this tool, that they need to be flexible.

[1:46:34] Trustee Patrick: So I did submit some language there to improve this sentence.

[1:46:39] Voice 12: Did you send

[1:46:40] Voice 12: it to motion or to planning?

[1:46:43] Voice 12: motion okay that's great i have three extra recommended motions that also have to do with

[1:46:50] Voice 12: housing diversity um trustee evans and then we'll go to a break thanks

[1:46:57] Voice 17: um so with regards to the

[1:46:58] Voice 17: floor area and lot coverage limits uh the way that this is currently written i agree that the

[1:47:04] Voice 17: to um that that uh determining the floor area and the lot coverage to minimize greenhouse gas

[1:47:12] Voice 17: gas emissions, brings up a lot of things.

[1:47:16] Voice 17: And before we get in there, during our conversations before, the items that we asked is that as

[1:47:23] Voice 17: we're going through a section, if we can identify what the issues are, what our end

[1:47:28] Voice 17: goals are, and then make sure that the solutions that we're coming up with address both of

[1:47:33] Voice 17: those so that we know that we're actually heading in the right direction would be great.

[1:47:38] Voice 17: um i think going back to this um so what i've i've been i'm getting lots of comments from

[1:47:45] Voice 17: from people on the island like even a thousand square foot home for a family is too large

[1:47:51] Voice 17: and um you know because they're they're they're using minimized house uh greenhouse gas emissions

[1:47:59] Voice 17: as the foundation for those arguments um and the impact to um uh the environment

[1:48:10] Voice 17: and I'm going to also say like the latest step code with the BC building code that really does

[1:48:18] Voice 17: reduce the the amount of greenhouse gas emissions that are that are released during once once the

[1:48:26] Voice 17: house is constructed but the other issue is that I'm noticing as well those that have the smaller

[1:48:31] Voice 17: smaller homes, have lots and lots of accessory buildings dotted around the property.

[1:48:38] Voice 17: So again, it's like a lot of trees and a lot of clearing occurs to put up a lot of these

[1:48:44] Voice 17: smaller structures.

[1:48:45] Voice 17: Whereas if you had a slightly larger home and less additional storage garages and separate

[1:48:57] Voice 17: Separate workshops, separate garage, separate toolshed, separate gardening, separate, you know, gardening stuff.

[1:49:10] Voice 17: All of those really add up to a lot, a lot more damage to the environment of the property that you're on and a lot less preservation of natural environment.

[1:49:25] Voice 17: environment. I'm saying this poorly, but the way this is written is, I think we've got to work on

[1:49:35] Voice 17: this. We've got, we've got to become clear on, on what we're trying to do. And we have to, we have

[1:49:40] Voice 17: to be clear on also what, what, what issue are we trying to address here? Are we trying to address

[1:49:46] Voice 17: the fact that homes are too large and they should be restricted? And if they are going to be

[1:49:52] Voice 17: be restricted to what size well how

[1:49:55] Voice 12: small is how

[1:49:56] Voice 17: small is too big

[1:49:57] Voice 12: so this is just a reminder

[1:50:00] Voice 12: overriding policy that directs communities to consider right so then communities will develop

[1:50:08] Voice 12: those policies in their ocp as to what size and what's appropriate so um can we take a break and

[1:50:15] Voice 12: i see that trustee peterson getty and director freighter and perhaps staff has some advice for

[1:50:21] Voice 12: how to move through this I didn't mean to cut you off trustee Evans was there anything else

[1:50:25] Voice 17: yeah but I can come back later okay

[1:50:29] Voice 12: thank you sorry I didn't mean to cut you off and trustee

[1:50:31] Voice 12: Bernardo you're next in the queue let's take a five minute break come back at 7 27 or 8 thank

[1:50:40] Voice 12: you I am so much in the dark here but we're all here isn't it cozy how is this time slot feeling

[1:55:46] Voice 12: for everybody um so we used to do six to nine it's gone from to 5 30 to 8 30 this is better

[1:55:55] Voice 12: so so okay i'll ask when everyone's back i

[1:56:01] Voice 13: mean certainly as opposed to last week i can actually

[1:56:04] Voice 13: make this time so yeah

[1:56:06] Voice 12: daytime we'll we'll definitely have to have a conversation about

[1:56:09] Voice 12: the daytimes okay wait for a few more screens to turn on

[1:56:21] Voice 3: it's a pretty good time slot um toby but

[1:56:27] Voice 3: But I know I had to turn my camera off for a few minutes just so I could eat my dinner.

[1:56:31] Voice 12: I know.

[1:56:31] Voice 12: I think we should feel comfortable and eaten if we need to.

[1:56:40] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:56:41] Voice 12: Are we ready to pick up again?

[1:56:42] Voice 12: Do we have our minute taker?

[1:56:46] Voice 12: And okay.

[1:56:47] Voice 12: So, Trustee Peterson, Trustee Getty.

[1:56:57] Voice 23: Okay.

[1:56:57] Voice 23: So, thank you, Chair.

[1:56:59] Voice 23: And thanks for the break.

[1:57:00] Voice 23: Much, much appreciated.

[1:57:02] Voice 23: I was looking at this floor area and lot coverage limits.

[1:57:08] Voice 23: And given what we heard from Mr. Yeomans there around the difficulties of local trust committees perhaps assessing greenhouse gas emissions, I wonder if the simple thing might be, and I didn't get to send a motion out or anything yet.

[1:57:33] Voice 23: I took the break as a break.

[1:57:34] Voice 23: But I wonder if the simple thing is to remove greenhouse gas emissions, and then we're still addressing the lot coverage and the floor area, but we're not setting ourselves up for determining something that we don't have the tools to determine.

[1:57:57] Voice 23: So that was my thought on that.

[1:58:00] Voice 23: Thanks.

[1:58:02] Voice 12: Justin, thank you.

[1:58:03] Voice 12: Trustee Getty?

[1:58:04] Voice 12: um

[1:58:06] Voice 2: i'd be interested in what uh staff uh director freighter has to say first please

[1:58:11] Voice 2: thank you dr

[1:58:13] Voice 12: freighter thank

[1:58:16] Voice 18: you i just want to let you know this of course this document was

[1:58:18] Voice 18: developed by previous term of elected officials i believe this policy in particular came out of

[1:58:24] Voice 18: a climate change working group they were looking to find ways to demonstrate action on climate

[1:58:28] Voice 18: change hence the greenhouse gas emission reference here and i just wanted to read to you how it

[1:58:34] Voice 18: previously read um in the last draft give me a moment here um i just moved away from it um

[1:58:42] Voice 18: previously um it read the preamble and then it read identify appropriate floor area and lot cut

[1:58:50] Voice 18: block coverage limits for residential development in their planning area in order to effectively

[1:58:55] Voice 18: minimize greenhouse gas emissions cumulative effects biodiversity loss climate vulnerability

[1:59:00] Voice 18: and destruction of indigenous cultural heritage so that was what came out that's how trust programs

[1:59:06] Voice 18: committee crafted the policy the first time the direction we had it was part of the 32 resolutions

[1:59:11] Voice 18: was to reformat it for readability and understandability so we did that and then you'll

[1:59:17] Voice 18: note that particular phrase on agricultural land i believe came as a suggestion from one of the

[1:59:23] Voice 18: nations we were working with so then that got added for emphasis i would have to sleuth back

[1:59:28] Voice 18: which nation recommended that to us so these these that's how this is evolving um certainly

[1:59:34] Voice 18: that that's the i think that's the history of why it's got the greenhouse gas reference

[1:59:37] Voice 18: they were really trying to find places to emphasize that commitment level

[1:59:43] Voice 18: again i think we're now you're operating in real time if you'd like to take advice from

[1:59:46] Voice 18: the current planner you're in staff support you have to maybe not include that phrase here

[1:59:50] Voice 18: certainly up to you okay

[1:59:54] Voice 12: back to trustee getty then trustee bernardo trustee boland

[1:59:57] Voice 12: Um.

[2:00:00] Voice 2: I'm not sure that this, if this is primarily in terms of not having big houses and not having a lot of lots covered, lot coverage, in terms of what in Toronto we used to call monster houses on small lots, that's one thing.

[2:00:24] Voice 2: And, you know, to have the minimum, minimized greenhouse gas emissions is, I don't have any quarrel with that link.

[2:00:33] Voice 2: I'm not sure that this is the most elegant way of saying how to meet that.

[2:00:38] Voice 2: But I think the different policy in terms of if we limit large houses somehow,

[2:00:48] Voice 2: then I don't think this deals with what Trustee Evans was talking about

[2:00:54] Voice 2: in terms of that morphing into a whole lot of little houses scattered around a lot.

[2:00:59] Voice 2: So this concept is, I think, important and relevant

[2:01:06] Voice 2: in terms of not having big houses

[2:01:08] Voice 2: and not having lots, particularly small lots,

[2:01:12] Voice 2: covered, and somehow or other figure out

[2:01:16] Voice 2: a different way and a different place

[2:01:19] Voice 2: to deal with total lot coverage, if it's

[2:01:23] Voice 2: a number of little houses.

[2:01:24] Voice 2: If we're trying to pay attention to the clearing

[2:01:29] Voice 2: in the although I don't know that we necessarily have control over that but so I'm not sure if

[2:01:39] Voice 2: this is getting at what we're trying to protect in terms of monster houses on small lots thank

[2:01:49] Voice 12: you for that I don't want to interject I put myself on the speakers list but I have two

[2:01:55] Voice 12: to potential policies on low impact in clustered housing

[2:01:59] Voice 12: and mitigating impacts.

[2:02:00] Voice 12: So I'd like to put those forward

[2:02:03] Voice 12: when there's an opportunity.

[2:02:05] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo.

[2:02:06] Voice 25: Yes, I find the wording of this particular item

[2:02:11] Voice 25: a little frustrating.

[2:02:14] Voice 25: It's a little cluttered.

[2:02:14] Voice 25: There's too many concepts in there.

[2:02:16] Voice 25: I'm just thinking about practical application for an LTC.

[2:02:22] Voice 25: Determining a floor area, minimize gas emissions,

[2:02:24] Voice 25: emissions cumulative impacts

[2:02:26] Voice 25: of what to the

[2:02:29] Voice 25: trust area and then there's

[2:02:30] Voice 25: and then there's just surplus

[2:02:32] Voice 25: language that sounds great

[2:02:34] Voice 25: but doesn't add anything the unique amenities

[2:02:36] Voice 25: and all that stuff

[2:02:39] Voice 25: I'm a little troubled

[2:02:41] Voice 25: by hearing from Director Frater

[2:02:43] Voice 25: that this is to some extent

[2:02:46] Voice 25: a performative gesture

[2:02:47] Voice 25: from the last term

[2:02:49] Voice 25: that there was an anxiety or a concern

[2:02:52] Voice 25: that greenhouse gas

[2:02:54] Voice 25: emissions be somehow addressed

[2:02:55] Voice 25: But from what I'm hearing, I mean, the floor area and lot coverage question is much bigger than greenhouse gas emissions.

[2:03:04] Voice 25: I mean, it has aesthetic issues. It has larger environmental impact issues.

[2:03:10] Voice 25: We've already heard from Planner Yeomans that the greenhouse gas assessment that is required to make this work isn't really feasible.

[2:03:19] Voice 25: so uh i'm gonna suggest that uh this thing would work quite well if we just cut out everything

[2:03:29] Voice 25: um that starts with greenhouse gas and just replace it with to say to minimize negative

[2:03:37] Voice 25: environmental impacts period so uh i move i'd like to make a motion if i may i move that

[2:03:47] Voice 12: recommendation yes thank

[2:03:48] Voice 12: you

[2:03:49] Voice 25: yes i move that we recommend some kind of shuffle whatever we do here

[2:03:55] Voice 25: that 3.4.1 be amended amended to read as follows determine appropriate floor area and lot coverage

[2:04:03] Voice 25: limits for residential development to minimize negative environmental impacts period i second

[2:04:10] Voice 12: Second that.

[2:04:11] Voice 25: Sorry, I

[2:04:12] Voice 26: did not get that.

[2:04:13] Voice 12: Thank you.

[2:04:14] Voice 12: It's just after minimize.

[2:04:19] Voice 12: Sorry, can you repeat it, Trustee Bernardo?

[2:04:21] Voice 25: Yes.

[2:04:23] Voice 25: Determine appropriate floor area and lot coverage limits for residential development to minimize negative environmental impacts, period.

[2:04:35] Voice 25: And all the other language falls away.

[2:04:38] Voice 12: Thank you.

[2:04:39] Voice 12: and just a reminder to the committee before we have a seconder we need to be clear on the motion

[2:04:46] Voice 26: yeah i'm just going to share what i got because uh without the incentive it's hard to capture

[2:04:52] Voice 16: i put it in the chat because i had almost the same motion if that's helpful i think that's what joe

[2:04:58] Voice 16: just said yeah

[2:04:59] Voice 26: i can't copy it out of the chat so that's not really helpful okay uh just sending it

[2:05:04] Voice 26: to motions is actually the best approach okay um so i'm going to try and catch up to you you just

[2:05:10] Voice 26: kind of went too fast okay can you read it again

[2:05:14] Voice 26: yeah right

[2:05:15] Voice 25: uh uh let's see um well actually

[2:05:23] Voice 25: shouldn't read as you know that language says that determined it just it should be determined

[2:05:28] Voice 25: that that doesn't belong there it's

[2:05:33] Voice 16: in the chat joe what you said i think if that's helpful

[2:05:37] Voice 16: full.

[2:05:38] Voice 25: You can read it. Okay, I'm having trouble keeping up here.

[2:05:43] Voice 12: Determine lot floor. Determine

[2:05:46] Voice 25: appropriate floor area and lot coverage limits.

[2:05:52] Voice 15: Yes. For

[2:05:53] Voice 25: residential development to minimize

[2:06:00] Voice 25: negative environmental impacts, period.

[2:06:05] Voice 12: There we have it. Thank you, Trustee Bernardo. Now I'll

[2:06:11] Voice 12: call for a seconder whatever

[2:06:14] Voice 6: size trusty

[2:06:15] Voice 12: dodds you did want to

[2:06:16] Voice 6: second oh i was going to say before

[2:06:18] Voice 6: oh before um if i may yes

[2:06:24] Voice 12: here

[2:06:25] Voice 6: i heard from uh director freider that the addition of the words

[2:06:30] Voice 6: including agricultural land was put forward by a first nations and once again if we drop it we

[2:06:37] Voice 6: will be accused of not listening so i don't know is that true director freighter i believe that's

[2:06:44] Voice 6: what you told me

[2:06:44] Voice 18: let me i mean i'm operating on the flight that's a vague recollection i have

[2:06:48] Voice 18: i would i need to i'm frantically sleuthing back to figure out where exactly it came from

[2:06:53] Voice 18: um but if i might chair if i can just also yeah thank you and thank you for that reminder

[2:06:58] Voice 12: trustee graham i appreciate it

[2:07:00] Voice 18: um so i'm frantically sleuthing for you to see if i

[2:07:03] Voice 18: find it i would also remind you as you're contemplating negative environmental impacts

[2:07:07] Voice 18: consideration of lock coverage also has the potential um to minimize negative impacts on

[2:07:12] Voice 18: heritage sites so that might be another concept you would want to consider um and i will see if

[2:07:17] Voice 18: i can i'm sleuthing frantically here to see where that air culture one came from so i'll let you

[2:07:21] Voice 18: know if i find it quickly if

[2:07:23] Voice 25: i may chair um that what director freighter suggested is an entirely

[2:07:28] Voice 25: new concept that wasn't in the original 3.4.11.

[2:07:39] Voice 12: So we are hearing environmental, cultural, and agricultural maybe values that we want

[2:07:48] Voice 12: to protect.

[2:07:51] Voice 12: Are you open to amending negative environmental impacts to include other potential impacts?

[2:07:57] Voice 25: Yep.

[2:07:59] Voice 25: I'm just pointing it.

[2:08:01] Voice 25: Well, sorry.

[2:08:03] Voice 25: Sorry, I thought you were just asking me the question, but

[2:08:05] Voice 25: to put in the language other potential negative impacts, no, that's just really general.

[2:08:12] Voice 25: But if you have something specific like heritage, agricultural, whatever, those are sufficiently

[2:08:19] Voice 25: specific that an LTC knows what the heck it's being directed to do.

[2:08:25] Voice 12: Sure. So how about negative impacts on environment, cultural heritage, and agricultural lands?

[2:08:31] Voice 12: well

[2:08:33] Voice 25: all lands are environmental i mean sure natural

[2:08:40] Voice 12: environment i

[2:08:41] Voice 25: think i share you were

[2:08:43] Voice 25: on a better grammatical footing at the beginning when you're talking about

[2:08:47] Voice 25: negative environmental heritage and agricultural impacts well

[2:08:53] Voice 12: that's calling agricultural

[2:08:54] Voice 12: an impact i don't

[2:08:57] Voice 15: know negative

[2:08:59] Voice 12: cultural and agricultural values

[2:09:05] Voice 12: use now i'm

[2:09:06] Voice 12: crafting and i'm sorry i'm supposed to chair okay i'm back

[2:09:09] Voice 25: out of the seat well

[2:09:09] Voice 25: actually can we go back to my original motion uh if somebody else wants to have some justice

[2:09:13] Voice 25: suggestions with respect to language i guess but i feel like we're falling into a swamp the

[2:09:20] Voice 25: original intention here was to deal with the environment it wasn't to wheel in all this other

[2:09:25] Voice 25: stuff so you know what i'm taking back my amenable willingness to change it that's the motion if i

[2:09:31] Voice 25: can get somebody a second it's great thank you and

[2:09:34] Voice 12: i will say that i have another motion on

[2:09:36] Voice 12: mitigating negative impacts so or another policy um i have a speaker's

[2:09:42] Trustee Fast: list and so is the motion

[2:09:43] Trustee Fast: visible to others it's

[2:09:46] Voice 12: oh no i've sent it into motion so i was going to add it once we dealt

[2:09:51] Voice 12: with this this

[2:09:52] Voice 7: motion is visible so

[2:09:55] Voice 12: determine appropriate floor area so we're ending after

[2:09:59] Voice 12: negative environmental impacts right okay do

[2:10:03] Voice 26: we have a seconder so

[2:10:04] Voice 12: do we have

[2:10:05] Voice 12: a seconder whoever has their hand trustee Evans you can keep your hand up

[2:10:10] Voice 12: any seconders on the motion I'm not seeing anybody okay trustee Evans

[2:10:18] Voice 12: second the motion discussion on the motion okay I have a speaker's list of

[2:10:26] Voice 12: Boland Getty and then trustee put your trustee Patrick is this on the motion

[2:10:33] Voice 12: yes trustee patrick oh

[2:10:35] Voice 16: sorry i was on a speaker's list from you

[2:10:40] Voice 12: are but you wanted to put forward a

[2:10:43] Voice 12: different motion so you're still on the speaker's list no

[2:10:45] Voice 16: i was going to speak to this motion oh

[2:10:48] Voice 12: okay then go ahead

[2:10:49] Voice 16: yeah so um just remind everyone that in the main island um housing um you know

[2:10:59] Voice 16: housing options they actually recommend that one of the options is that you can have multiple

[2:11:06] Voice 16: houses by splitting up whatever floor coverage you're given into multiple houses

[2:11:11] Voice 16: the point i'm trying to make is that i think it would be impossible for us to really dictate

[2:11:17] Voice 16: more than something very broad and that on each island they would have to come to their

[2:11:23] Voice 16: own conclusions about what was appropriate at that moment so that um people could really you know

[2:11:31] Voice 16: work the issue that they had in front of them and the agricultural i'm a bit you know i'm a bit

[2:11:40] Voice 16: ambiguous about because there is the agricultural land um policy you know which which protects

[2:11:48] Voice 16: agriculture land anyway and um i just wonder if if we put back in the bit about the trust and its

[2:11:57] Voice 16: amenities etc would that cover off some of the things that we're trying to wordsmith here thanks

[2:12:08] Voice 12: trustee getty i'm

[2:12:11] Voice 2: in favor of of this motion and i um in terms of i'm also in favor of the

[2:12:16] Voice 2: the bits that were taken out. But my question was, can we cross-reference? Because we've done

[2:12:23] Voice 2: a whole lot of work about cultural heritage and heritage generally. And I believe we've also gone

[2:12:32] Voice 2: through agricultural protection. So I'm satisfied with this in terms of what we're trying to do with

[2:12:40] Voice 2: lot coverage and floor area. But some of those other things that were suggested that needed

[2:12:45] Voice 2: attention i'm wondering if you've already done that thank

[2:12:50] Voice 12: you trustee patrick i'd

[2:12:53] Trustee Patrick: like to see

[2:12:54] Trustee Patrick: the agricultural lands back in here the other section on agriculture is really about alr we do

[2:12:59] Trustee Patrick: have large farms that are not in the alr that are actively farmed and rapidly becoming lovely estate

[2:13:06] Trustee Patrick: homes um so um you know food security i think is absolutely important and i think um you know

[2:13:16] Trustee Patrick: except the agricultural land on our islands is so important so um i'll either if i'll just just

[2:13:23] Trustee Patrick: be wild here i'll i'll move to amend the motion to add um let's see there's negative environmental

[2:13:32] Trustee Patrick: impacts and impacts on agricultural land to the end that's the end of the sentence okay director

[2:13:47] Voice 12: Rector Marlowe, do we have?

[2:13:51] Voice 26: Yeah, it's just an amendment resolution.

[2:13:55] Voice 26: Yes.

[2:13:56] Voice 14: Yes.

[2:13:57] Voice 26: That was Trustee Patrick.

[2:13:59] Voice 26: Yes.

[2:14:00] Voice 26: Okay.

[2:14:01] Voice 26: Can you repeat what you want added?

[2:14:02] Trustee Patrick: To add and impacts on agricultural land to the end of the sentence.

[2:14:17] Voice 2: Negative impacts.

[2:14:18] Trustee Patrick: I guess if we have negative, this is so double negative.

[2:14:25] Trustee Patrick: I'm sure.

[2:14:33] Voice 12: that's a lot of negatives I know negative

[2:14:39] Voice 15: I'll

[2:14:46] Voice 16: second it if it's uh if we're at that stage it's

[2:14:50] Voice 12: it's okay it's very grammatically clunky I

[2:14:57] Voice 23: have a recommendation well

[2:15:00] Voice 12: we've got uh an amendment

[2:15:02] Voice 12: um but yes go ahead trustee Peterson although you're speaking all

[2:15:07] Voice 17: right I've got I've got

[2:15:09] Voice 17: got amendments to this amendment as well, so I think

[2:15:10] Voice 17: let's do it.

[2:15:13] Voice 17: Back to the speaker's list. Okay, Trustee

[2:15:15] Voice 12: Patrick, are you...

[2:15:17] Voice 12: You put your hand down, unless you want to speak to

[2:15:19] Voice 12: the amendment. Okay.

[2:15:25] Voice 12: We have Trustee Luckham,

[2:15:26] Voice 12: Trustee Fast, Trustee Evans,

[2:15:29] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson.

[2:15:33] Voice 7: I was just going to second the motion.

[2:15:35] Voice 7: That's what the option is.

[2:15:37] Voice 12: It looks like it's already seconded.

[2:15:40] Voice 12: Trustee Fast?

[2:15:41] Voice 12: I

[2:15:42] Voice 7: didn't hear that.

[2:15:44] Voice 7: Thank you, Chair.

[2:15:47] Trustee Fast: I just wanted to point out that there is a whole section of agricultural policies in 3.5, I think it is, anyway, and 3.59, protection of agricultural lands.

[2:16:03] Trustee Fast: And we've received input from Agricultural Land Commission and from a First Nation called SN, which I assume might be Squamish Nation or it might be another.

[2:16:16] Trustee Fast: other and uh so i i just um don't know if we need it here thank you thank

[2:16:24] Voice 17: you trustee evans

[2:16:25] Voice 17: um i understood trustee patrick's um comment regarding residential land being used uh for

[2:16:35] Voice 17: agricultural purposes now being large swaths of land and trying to protect them because they're

[2:16:41] Voice 17: are not part of the agricultural land. They're, they're, they're in residential areas. But I would

[2:16:50] Voice 17: like to amend the amendment. And I would like it to, to read, to minimize negative environmental

[2:17:09] Voice 17: environmental and agricultural land impacts and I'm trying to figure out another way to say

[2:17:18] Voice 17: agricultural land specifically to refer to not ALR land but farms that are on residential area

[2:17:33] Voice 17: that are being used for agricultural purposes and I don't have the solution to that right now

[2:17:39] Voice 17: else so if anyone can think of that that would be great land

[2:17:44] Voice 7: used for agricultural purposes you said

[2:17:47] Voice 7: it that's it there you go

[2:17:48] Voice 12: so we have an amendment on the amendment this is getting into territory

[2:17:54] Voice 12: that yeah

[2:17:56] Voice 26: ever may it's not the best thing to do rubbish rules would allow you to go to maximum of

[2:18:01] Voice 26: two but it gets confusing but if you want to do that's fine so can you just be clear with me what

[2:18:08] Voice 26: I'm amending what wording you want here so amend the amendment by

[2:18:13] Voice 17: adding um and what was it what

[2:18:25] Voice 17: was the term that I used agricultural

[2:18:26] Voice 7: land you land use for agricultural purposes and

[2:18:37] Voice 17: yeah so purposes after the word environmental but let me just read that now so minimize negative

[2:18:46] Voice 17: environmental and land use for agricultural no so it's going to have to read uh to minimize them

[2:18:55] Voice 17: um to read minimize negative impacts on environmental and land used for agricultural

[2:19:03] Voice 17: purposes d

[2:19:07] Voice 7: in there david so

[2:19:09] Voice 17: yeah no so the amendment are

[2:19:13] Voice 26: we amending this right

[2:19:15] Voice 26: right so this amendment

[2:19:19] Voice 26: here oh i see so

[2:19:21] Voice 26: it's the first amendment amending this one

[2:19:23] Voice 26: so you can't have this one amend this one you have to consider this okay

[2:19:29] Voice 17: so i need to deal

[2:19:30] Voice 26: with this first and then come back to this one okay

[2:19:32] Voice 17: so to change uh okay so uh so amend the

[2:19:37] Voice 17: amendment by changing and add negative impacts on agricultural land to i

[2:19:44] Voice 26: say that again

[2:19:45] Voice 26: Again, by adding to,

[2:19:50] Voice 12: to change.

[2:19:53] Voice 12: Trustee Evans, can I suggest something?

[2:19:57] Voice 12: Let's vote on the amendment so that we have a new motion and then you can

[2:20:02] Voice 12: propose your amendment to a complete motion.

[2:20:06] Voice 17: Okay. So we'll

[2:20:07] Voice 17: vote on the amendment first and then we'll just go and change

[2:20:10] Voice 17: it again.

[2:20:10] Voice 17: Yeah. We'll come

[2:20:11] Voice 12: back and we'll change it.

[2:20:13] Voice 12: So can we deal with this amendment that amends by adding and negative impacts on agricultural land to the end of the sentence?

[2:20:24] Voice 12: And I'm going to ask everyone to put your hands down.

[2:20:26] Voice 12: I recognize Director Freider, you've had your hand up, then Peterson, then Dodds.

[2:20:30] Voice 12: I'm still on the queue.

[2:20:31] Voice 12: And Trustee Locke.

[2:20:32] Voice 7: May I ask for a point of order before you call the vote?

[2:20:36] Voice 12: Sure.

[2:20:38] Voice 7: i guess this is for david more so than the chair but just don't want to end us up in a bad place

[2:20:43] Voice 7: that if this failed for instance um and then another motion comes along that

[2:20:51] Voice 7: implies the same thing in a different way is that

[2:20:56] Voice 7: not a revisiting of a motion which failed

[2:21:01] Voice 15: Yeah,

[2:21:01] Voice 7: you have to be careful. That's all. I'm in support of the amended amendment. But

[2:21:08] Voice 26: yeah, that's a good point. I

[2:21:10] Voice 12: see what you mean. Yeah.

[2:21:14] Voice 7: So in fact, it would be good to

[2:21:19] Voice 7: approve this amendment and then amend it because

[2:21:22] Voice 7: then it would be for grammar.

[2:21:23] Voice 17: I think that is that I'd be changing the intent of this wording.

[2:21:31] Voice 7: I wouldn't read it that way myself, but that's up to the chair.

[2:21:37] Voice 12: justy getty you're waving two hands i'm

[2:21:42] Voice 2: feeling like this is not the best use of our time

[2:21:45] Voice 2: and um i think when sue ellen and i proposed that there be an amendment to something and to allow

[2:21:51] Voice 2: for um access to public lands that that we got bogged down in the same sort of wording and we

[2:22:00] Voice 2: And we put it over, tabled it, and just spent some time.

[2:22:05] Voice 2: And we ran out of time at that meeting, so it was just another conference with staff.

[2:22:10] Voice 2: And that worked really well.

[2:22:12] Voice 2: So I think if we're trying to wordsmith and fine-tune this to, you know, meet all the things that we're having, we're struggling with it, it's the end of a long day, then we should just

[2:22:24] Voice 2: give ourselves some time.

[2:22:27] Voice 12: Okay, so I am hearing that we want this motion to have more work.

[2:22:38] Voice 12: Do we want to ask staff to work on it? Do we want to finish it tonight and have something?

[2:22:45] Voice 23: I still have a suggestion.

[2:22:47] Voice 12: Okay, and Trustee Dodds, you've got your hand up.

[2:22:49] Voice 12: I'm going to go to Trustee Dodds. You're still in the queue.

[2:22:51] Voice 12: Yeah, I just

[2:22:53] Voice 4: wanted to say about in my OCP and a residential development in agricultural land.

[2:23:07] Voice 4: So would not this simple motion also refer to agricultural land?

[2:23:14] Voice 4: I don't know why we're pulling out agricultural land.

[2:23:17] Voice 4: We're talking about how you build houses on land, however they're zoned.

[2:23:22] Voice 4: So I think we're actually completely sidetracked.

[2:23:27] Voice 12: thank you i think we are getting sidetracked trustee peterson yeah

[2:23:32] Voice 23: thank you i mean i lowered

[2:23:34] Voice 23: my hand because you asked me to lower my hand but my suggestion is for the amendment is after

[2:23:42] Voice 23: environmental impacts just to simply add including land use for agricultural purposes

[2:23:53] Voice 23: and then we don't have the two negatives in there thank

[2:23:57] Voice 12: you i agree that's a good suggestion let's

[2:24:01] Voice 12: have a vote on the amendment if we add and negative impacts on agricultural land that will

[2:24:11] Voice 12: mean two negatives and i propose that this amendment we might want to let it go and then

[2:24:20] Voice 12: revisit this original motion to have a vote on the amendment sorry

[2:24:25] Voice 17: um sorry you're right i should not

[2:24:26] Voice 17: have said that so if if this mode if the amendment gets killed we can't revisit it we can't bring it

[2:24:33] Voice 17: back because you're bringing back something that just failed so we have to amend the amendment

[2:24:39] Voice 17: first if you want to include agricultural land otherwise you cannot add it later

[2:24:44] Voice 17: is that true

[2:24:46] Voice 12: director marler well yeah i'd

[2:24:48] Voice 26: agree um you know the intent here is um to add the

[2:24:53] Voice 26: impacts on agricultural land so if you don't like the word negative or you don't like the wording

[2:24:58] Voice 26: you should take it out but um i don't see a problem with it because it's negative impacts

[2:25:04] Voice 26: that you're talking about.

[2:25:05] Voice 26: I don't think you worry about positive impacts.

[2:25:08] Voice 26: And I think you do need the two negatives.

[2:25:12] Voice 26: So just the way the resolution is structured

[2:25:17] Voice 26: to portray that.

[2:25:21] Voice 12: I see Trustee Peterson, Trustee Luckham, Trustee Evans.

[2:25:28] Voice 23: So thank you, Chair.

[2:25:30] Voice 23: So my suggestion was as a substitution

[2:25:35] Voice 23: for Trustee Evans' amendment of the amendment,

[2:25:40] Voice 23: would be to retain the wording of the original motion

[2:25:48] Voice 23: and simply add including land used for agricultural purposes

[2:25:55] Voice 23: after environmental impacts.

[2:25:59] Voice 23: So I'd read minimize negative environmental impacts

[2:26:02] Voice 23: including land used for agricultural purposes.

[2:26:11] Voice 23: Or maybe it should be including on land.

[2:26:13] Voice 23: but anyway yeah

[2:26:15] Voice 12: i know we're getting into the weeds i recognize the rationale i think

[2:26:19] Voice 12: we are just going to have to move through this process we're stuck but trustee

[2:26:24] Voice 17: luckham sorry

[2:26:25] Voice 17: he's he's asking to do an amendment to the amendment point of order he's he's asking to

[2:26:29] Voice 17: do an amendment to the amendment please let him

[2:26:31] Voice 7: yeah so um thank you for the opportunity to speak

[2:26:37] Voice 7: Um, I don't think that, oh, sorry, I got, I, you know, this is the trouble with late meetings, it makes it difficult to think, but I was considering that this had not been seconded, but because Trustee Evans is making an amendment to the amendment.

[2:26:56] Voice 7: And so in, I don't, I'm supportive of Trustee Peterson's notion. And yeah, so off you go.

[2:27:11] Voice 12: OK.

[2:27:12] Voice 23: OK. And and Trustee Evans, can I just do you mind, Chair?

[2:27:16] Voice 23: I just wanted to check in with Trustee Evans to see if if that sounded like getting out what she was intending, because we're all just trying to work here together.

[2:27:25] Voice 23: So for Mr. Marler, it would be amend the amendment by removing and

[2:27:41] Voice 24: negative impacts on agriculture or changing and negative impacts on agricultural land to including on land used for agricultural purposes.

[2:28:19] Voice 12: Thank you. An amendment on the amendment.

[2:28:24] Voice 24: And that's agricultural, not cultural.

[2:28:29] Voice 24: Oh, okay, there, I can see it. Thank you, sir.

[2:28:33] Voice 12: Use, and there should be a D, use, used.

[2:28:37] Voice 24: Used for, yes.

[2:28:41] Voice 12: Or could we just remove used? I hate the word use, including on land for agricultural purposes.

[2:28:49] Voice 12: No? You want it in there?

[2:28:51] Voice 12: okay i have a mover of an amendment do i have a seconder a

[2:28:58] Voice 25: point of order oh

[2:28:59] Voice 12: yes so

[2:29:00] Voice 25: i'm sorry but

[2:29:01] Voice 25: i i'm getting very confused here yep um i saw there was some changing to the second or the

[2:29:08] Voice 25: first amendment but i um that's not the language we're aiming at the language we're aiming at is

[2:29:16] Voice 25: the one that trustee Peterson has moved and somebody's going to second is that

[2:29:21] Voice 25: right if

[2:29:24] Voice 26: I can yes that's correct so this here is being proposed to be

[2:29:29] Voice 26: changed on it all right thank you this year I was just very

[2:29:32] Voice 25: confused thank you

[2:29:33] Voice 25: sorry this

[2:29:34] Voice 12: you're not the only one and I'm seconding okay we have a mover and a

[2:29:40] Voice 12: seconder trustee Evans all right thank you trustee Luck I'm on the amendment on

[2:29:46] Voice 12: the amendment yeah

[2:29:47] Voice 7: just saying that this is a great place to land um thank you trustee peterson

[2:29:53] Voice 7: um and just remember that this is a recommendation to council and if it's not perfect council can

[2:30:00] Voice 7: make it perfect if it's its wish and it's i would suggest it's close enough thank

[2:30:06] Voice 12: you um

[2:30:08] Voice 12: any speakers on the amendment if not i'll call for the vote all those in favor please raise your

[2:30:16] Voice 12: hands so we count to 12 in favor lower your hands 13 and any opposed one opposed that is carried

[2:30:38] Voice 12: so on the first amendment this

[2:30:44] Voice 26: now changes thanks

[2:30:47] Voice 12: for working together everybody this is tough

[2:30:50] Voice 12: and um we got to figure out a better way to do amendments but yeah

[2:30:58] Voice 26: so this is what it's

[2:31:02] Voice 26: going to look like

[2:31:02] Voice 15: now okay

[2:31:10] Voice 26: so this is the updated wording of the amendment including

[2:31:16] Voice 12: Use for agricultural purposes at the end of the sentence.

[2:31:18] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:31:20] Voice 12: So on the amendment, any speakers here?

[2:31:29] Voice 12: No?

[2:31:30] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:31:30] Voice 12: Call for the vote.

[2:31:31] Voice 12: All those in favor?

[2:31:39] Voice 12: 12, 13 in favor?

[2:31:42] Voice 12: Please lower your hands.

[2:31:46] Voice 12: Any opposed?

[2:31:49] Voice 12: None opposed.

[2:31:50] Voice 12: That is carried.

[2:31:56] Voice 15: Second.

[2:31:58] Voice 26: Did, did, did, did, did, did, did.

[2:32:00] Voice 26: What did you do?

[2:32:00] Voice 26: I did so.

[2:32:07] Voice 26: Did you do?

[2:32:08] Voice 26: Where is it?

[2:32:09] Voice 26: Hang on.

[2:32:09] Voice 26: gotta get this organized there we go

[2:32:14] Voice 12: here's where we need elevator

[2:32:15] Voice 12: music okay

[2:32:19] Voice 26: so this is what

[2:32:20] Voice 26: the amended amended

[2:32:23] Voice 26: looks like now thank you

[2:32:25] Voice 12: okay

[2:32:27] Voice 26: so that's what you're voting

[2:32:28] Voice 26: on

[2:32:31] Voice 15: wonderful

[2:32:33] Voice 25: point of

[2:32:34] Voice 25: petty order I think we need a comma

[2:32:37] Voice 25: after impacts I would

[2:32:40] Voice 12: tend to agree

[2:32:42] Voice 26: that wasn't in the amendment no I'm kidding

[2:32:45] Voice 7: please

[2:32:48] Voice 7: point of

[2:32:49] Voice 12: clarity

[2:32:49] Voice 12: clarity, point of help. Okay, so on this new policy of the committees, I don't know who's moved it

[2:33:00] Voice 12: anymore, but any discussion?

[2:33:04] Trustee Patrick: By Patrick and Evans.

[2:33:12] Voice 12: Okay, I'll call for the vote. All those in favor?

[2:33:21] Voice 12: 15, I believe, 16, 17. Are we at 17? Sorry, I lost count. Jumping around. Hold your hands up.

[2:33:31] Voice 12: three 15 16 17 okay thank you I think that's unanimous any opposed no wonderful job okay

[2:33:48] Voice 12: I

[2:33:49] Voice 16: just asked something about a process please do yeah so correct me if I'm wrong and David

[2:33:59] Voice 16: that Marla perhaps she could speak to this and I feel that part of the reason we end up in this

[2:34:05] Voice 16: horrible horrible rabbit hole of amendments to amendments to amendments is because we are still

[2:34:12] Voice 16: adhering to trust council rules which is you cannot speak until you have a motion that's seconded

[2:34:18] Voice 16: what we need to do I think is that people propose something and we talk it through until we have

[2:34:25] Voice 16: made all the changes in wordsmithing before we make it, before we second it or

[2:34:32] Voice 16: before even it's put on the table as a motion. It should be just a piece of text

[2:34:37] Voice 16: that somebody says why don't we replace that with this and then we talk about it

[2:34:42] Voice 16: until we're happy and then we vote. Thank you Trustee Boland. And

[2:34:48] Voice 26: through the chair

[2:34:49] Voice 26: Yeah, that is totally fine.

[2:34:51] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:34:52] Voice 12: Yeah.

[2:34:53] Voice 12: So how can we flex our new muscles, Trustee Graham?

[2:34:59] Voice 6: Thank you, Trustee Boland.

[2:35:02] Voice 6: You know, this whole community of the whole was presented to Trust Council as a way to loosen up the process.

[2:35:10] Voice 6: That's how it was sold to us.

[2:35:12] Voice 6: I remember that conversation, and I was thinking to myself, what a great idea.

[2:35:15] Voice 6: Then we can just chat and talk.

[2:35:17] Voice 6: And by the time we've, you know, hammered this thing to the point where nobody has anything else to say, then we can make a motion and maybe second it and get on with it.

[2:35:26] Voice 6: Because that this last 20 minutes, I have to admit, I was ready to go home, you know, and I know we all struggled and we do this regularly.

[2:35:36] Voice 6: So let's take advantage of the relaxed rules of Committee of the Whole and do exactly what Trustee Boland has suggested.

[2:35:42] Voice 6: Thank you.

[2:35:44] Voice 12: Can I just ask then, how should that work?

[2:35:48] Voice 12: But maybe

[2:35:48] Voice 16: remind us at the beginning of every meeting, just remind us of how it's supposed to work or have maybe direct tomorrow remind us.

[2:35:57] Voice 26: And so, yeah,

[2:35:58] Voice 12: go ahead. Some advice would be great.

[2:36:00] Voice 26: Yeah, no, the intent is, as you said, to relax the rules, but you still need to have some discipline, especially if you're making a resolution.

[2:36:08] Voice 26: The best approach, I think, if somebody has one, get it sent into motions so we have it and pull it up on the screen.

[2:36:15] Voice 26: but don't be quick to make the motion just put it up and then have a discussion as trustee boland

[2:36:22] Voice 26: said around the wording if you want to wordsmith it that's probably the best way to do it and then

[2:36:27] Voice 26: once you're happy with it then somebody can make and move in second and hopefully that avoids going

[2:36:32] Voice 26: through the amendment process okay

[2:36:37] Voice 12: thank you trustee evans i

[2:36:40] Voice 17: was going to say i've actually

[2:36:41] Voice 17: used that quite a bit in Trust Council as well, where I've said, I've got wording and I'm proposing

[2:36:47] Voice 17: that Trust Council assist me with the development of this prior to moving. And that worked really

[2:36:54] Voice 17: well. So I really think that should be used a lot more, and we can use it at Trust Council as well

[2:37:00] Voice 17: as in here. The other point that I'd like to reiterate, again, is, as we come to each of

[2:37:06] Voice 17: these sections can we please discuss because this is meant for open discussion as well what is the

[2:37:14] Voice 17: issue that we're trying to address what are the goals that we're trying to achieve then we can

[2:37:21] Voice 17: have discussion on solutions and then we can take a look to see if these suggestions are actually

[2:37:29] Voice 17: meeting the uh the resolution of the issues and the goals that we've identified because otherwise

[2:37:35] Voice 17: Otherwise, all we're doing is we're looking at these individually, and we're not actually

[2:37:40] Voice 17: taking the opportunity to look at this as a big picture item.

[2:37:43] Voice 17: And we can come up, if this opens up and we have free discussion on it, we can find other

[2:37:49] Voice 17: areas potentially that can really have a good impact on the future of how we operate.

[2:37:59] Voice 12: These are all great suggestions.

[2:38:01] Voice 12: So let's endeavor to, what would a good practice be to put a policy up on the screen in written order and go, is this, are we content with it?

[2:38:14] Voice 12: No, we want to amend it.

[2:38:16] Voice 12: We want to modify it.

[2:38:18] Voice 12: Let's have a discussion, but we don't move it until everyone sort of had their say.

[2:38:25] Voice 12: Is that a good process going forward?

[2:38:28] Voice 12: Trustee Evans, your hands back up.

[2:38:29] Voice 12: yeah

[2:38:30] Voice 17: and once we get to these sections before we get into the individual bits let's have an

[2:38:35] Voice 17: open discussion first and identify what are the issues what are our goals okay can we practice

[2:38:41] Voice 17: now

[2:38:41] Voice 12: let's practice let's practice with 3.4.12 housing diversity no

[2:38:47] Voice 17: because we should have done

[2:38:48] Voice 17: that when it says directive policies housing oh god

[2:38:53] Voice 17: that's what i'm saying when we come to each

[2:38:55] Voice 17: of these these sections so the next one would be transportation let's have a discussion at

[2:39:00] Voice 17: transportation okay and say what are the issues with transportation water with transportation

[2:39:07] Voice 17: do these policies address our issues and our goals that

[2:39:14] Voice 12: is a good point thank you trustee evans

[2:39:16] Voice 12: trustee bernardo yes

[2:39:19] Voice 25: we've been going for quite a while now um i speaking for myself i'm losing

[2:39:24] Voice 25: my appetite for any further discussion about anything i'm wondering if we can adjourn this

[2:39:29] Voice 25: we're getting into meta arguments about how we should conduct ourselves perhaps we should reserve

[2:39:34] Voice 25: those for the next time we get together at the beginning of the meeting okay

[2:39:40] Voice 17: we discussed this

[2:39:41] Voice 17: is our last meeting we were supposed to do it at this meeting which is why i keep bringing it up

[2:39:48] Voice 12: well i think trustee patrick had uh some suggestions for housing diversity

[2:39:53] Voice 12: city um trustee luckham um

[2:39:57] Voice 25: point of order this meeting was scheduled to conclude at eight o'clock

[2:40:00] Voice 25: was it not no

[2:40:01] Voice 12: 8 30 8

[2:40:02] Voice 25: 30 okay my apologies

[2:40:05] Voice 7: i'm uh enjoying the things that i'm hearing and looking

[2:40:11] Voice 7: to advance this work and you know i'll just say that in in in mediation anyway um um people are

[2:40:20] Voice 7: often, and it's not a fault at all, are quick to seek solutions. And in this situation,

[2:40:27] Voice 7: the solution is to make a motion because you think that this is the solution to it. But usually,

[2:40:32] Voice 7: you don't want to be quick to solution. You want to drill deeper and have a more in-depth

[2:40:38] Voice 7: conversation to allow the solutions to come from the group rather than perhaps an individual or

[2:40:44] Voice 7: or a small portion. And so I think this is really good. And whether or not a notice to motion tool

[2:40:51] Voice 7: is something that we should take more advantage of even before we end up in the meeting so that

[2:40:56] Voice 7: people can contemplate what others are thinking would be indeed helpful. Crafting the motion

[2:41:04] Voice 7: right on the first go is the key to not take amendments. That's great. Thank

[2:41:11] Voice 12: you. I'm actually

[2:41:14] Voice 12: going to make a note to staff can you remind me of this that we should collect all the we should

[2:41:22] Voice 12: have a deadline for notice of motions or resolutions or changes people want to make and

[2:41:27] Voice 12: that should be sent out to all trustees in advance of the meeting what three hours before a day

[2:41:33] Voice 12: before um i do have some potential new policies the goal that i would like to see so i'm putting

[2:41:42] Voice 12: putting myself on the speaker's list, is where the policies to encourage or drive clusters

[2:41:49] Voice 12: of low impact or compact forms of housing and direct them to the areas that have the

[2:41:56] Voice 12: least negative impact on the natural environment.

[2:42:00] Voice 12: So I had two potential policies on clustered housing and mitigating impacts, but I don't

[2:42:09] Voice 12: want to put those in front of the group if we want to move on to housing diversity and address this

[2:42:14] Voice 12: one so put that out there but trustee patrick did you i think you had something on housing diversity

[2:42:23] Voice 12: here sure

[2:42:24] Trustee Patrick: i submitted the language um and i and it was uh uh jason yeomans helped that actually

[2:42:34] Trustee Patrick: proposed the language because i had raised this at the last meeting about just this support housing

[2:42:40] Trustee Patrick: housing agreements for affordable housing and special needs housing was just sort of a very

[2:42:45] Trustee Patrick: strange policy so um I like said I still have a question a housing agreement is a tool do we need

[2:42:52] Trustee Patrick: a policy on how we use a tool and if we do I have submitted some wording so it's uh I don't know who

[2:42:59] Trustee Patrick: who has the wording um so

[2:43:02] Voice 12: 3.4.12 i did see that yeah uh at least uh we might want to send that to

[2:43:12] Voice 12: oh

[2:43:12] Trustee Patrick: there it is perfect so basically it just expands on it to say ensure that housing agreements used

[2:43:21] Trustee Patrick: to secure affordable and or special needs housing are flexible to accommodate changing resident

[2:43:27] Trustee Patrick: market and funding conditions it's just sometimes our housing needs housing

[2:43:32] Trustee Patrick: agreements we make are inflexible and the world isn't what it is it changes

[2:43:37] Trustee Patrick: and that they need to be that needs to be contemplated when the tool is put in

[2:43:42] Trustee Patrick: place great

[2:43:44] Voice 3: thank you so much trustee gates I was going to second that motion

[2:43:49] Voice 3: thank you no okay

[2:43:53] Voice 7: trustee

[2:43:57] Voice 12: eight we just had a

[2:43:58] Voice 12: conversation about not seconding until we've had some discussion on it so that was an april fool's

[2:44:04] Voice 12: joke right that's also in desperation get some work done okay can we have any uh general

[2:44:12] Voice 12: discussion on this let's practice folks trustee graham

[2:44:15] Voice 6: general discussion here um i've seen a

[2:44:18] Voice 6: number of housing agreements and they seem to be quite prescriptive uh quite quite uh i didn't know

[2:44:27] Voice 6: that you could build in flexibility into a housing agreement so i would like to hear some

[2:44:31] Voice 6: feedback on housing agreements that that do have that flexibility please thank

[2:44:38] Voice 12: you yes back to you

[2:44:39] Voice 12: trustee patrick well

[2:44:43] Trustee Patrick: when ubcm um i think uh tim peterson can jump in too because it was i i jumped

[2:44:48] Trustee Patrick: into the hornby um discussion with bc housing and they were you one they weren't really overly keen

[2:44:55] Trustee Patrick: on having housing agreements to be quite honest but flexibility was what was absolutely critical

[2:45:00] Trustee Patrick: that we need to get better so when they are inflexible it just things change um and it just

[2:45:07] Trustee Patrick: we're adding complexity to situations um and we have to realize that things change so when you

[2:45:13] Trustee Patrick: build it for one you know one funder and then they get a new funder or something to the table

[2:45:19] Trustee Patrick: um so it's it can be done okay

[2:45:23] Voice 12: thank you i see staff uh director sir mac good evening everybody

[2:45:30] Voice 20: everybody. I just thought I'd comment that, you know, housing agreements are very prescriptive

[2:45:35] Voice 20: as per the Local Government Act. If you look it up, Section 483 of the Local Government Act

[2:45:41] Voice 20: puts out, sorry, I just caught Jason doing his thing. Those are the conditions. So I would

[2:45:47] Voice 20: recommend that staff report back regarding the ability to be flexible, because generally we make

[2:45:53] Voice 20: housing agreements as per the Act, and if there is flexibility, we haven't explored it, I would

[2:45:58] Voice 20: hate for you to put forward a policy then that we can't actually implement so i would recommend that

[2:46:03] Voice 20: you ask i'm watching jason um uh report back on that ability to be flexible i'm not saying we

[2:46:11] Voice 20: can't i just don't know and i just know what the access so that's my recommendation okay

[2:46:19] Voice 12: so seeing as we're coming to about 10 minutes to our close um is there an appetite to ask staff to

[2:46:26] Voice 12: do some work to bring back options around the flexibility of housing

[2:46:33] Voice 12: agreements I have two other suggestions for pieces that I'd like staff to

[2:46:39] Voice 12: explore as well around housing diversity so in I think the January 8th meeting

[2:46:46] Voice 12: there was noted in the minutes that definition or further explore

[2:46:53] Voice 12: explanation within the policy of housing diversity might be needed and further I

[2:47:00] Voice 12: would like to ask staff to bring back some policy options that encourage

[2:47:04] Voice 12: alternative approaches to rural residential density or clustering

[2:47:09] Voice 12: residential development appropriate locations I don't think there's time to

[2:47:14] Voice 12: consider and debate new policies but if you have the appetite let me know trust

[2:47:21] Voice 12: Trustee Yates?

[2:47:23] Voice 3: Yeah, I definitely am listening to Director Saramac's good advice there.

[2:47:28] Voice 3: And I'm sure I was quite hasty in seconding that motion.

[2:47:32] Voice 3: The one thing that's missing in the history of Gabriola is no housing agreements.

[2:47:36] Voice 3: And that was a total disaster.

[2:47:39] Voice 3: So we definitely need them.

[2:47:41] Voice 3: And maybe they do need to be very stringent.

[2:47:44] Voice 3: I'm not sure.

[2:47:44] Voice 3: But I'd love to get advice from staff before we go ahead with this.

[2:47:48] Voice 3: Thank you.

[2:47:51] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson.

[2:47:52] Voice 12: Trustee Graham.

[2:47:54] Voice 23: Two things. I could have sworn I thought I heard Trustee Patrick say that she worked on that with Mr. Yeomans.

[2:48:03] Voice 23: But the second thing, I think it's important that we leave a bit of time to talk about scheduling the next meetings, because I'm glad we've got a quorum tonight.

[2:48:12] Voice 23: Let's explore which timing is working for everybody better, because we didn't get one last time. That was frustrating.

[2:48:19] Voice 23: So please, Chair, try and make sure we get at least five minutes for that.

[2:48:24] Voice 23: Thank you.

[2:48:25] Voice 12: 100%.

[2:48:25] Voice 12: Trustee Graham.

[2:48:27] Voice 6: I will be brief.

[2:48:28] Voice 6: This is a policy statement.

[2:48:30] Voice 6: So it's a very high document in the hierarchy of direction to local trust committees.

[2:48:37] Voice 6: And I'm just curious to know whether it's appropriate to have such a tool in a policy which is at such a high level.

[2:48:46] Voice 6: And I'd like some staff direction on that also, please.

[2:48:49] Voice 6: Thank you.

[2:48:59] Voice 12: Lisa or David Marlar since you're typing I'd like to move a recommendation that Trust Council or

[2:49:07] Voice 12: executive committee request staff to bring back options to explain housing diversity it's in the

[2:49:17] Voice 12: word document that I sent you David

[2:49:21] Voice 26: it's

[2:49:28] Voice 12: in the second page in the middle and I put it in the

[2:49:35] Voice 12: the chat but I know you can't copy it so the potential for flexibility for

[2:49:41] Voice 12: housing agreements and policy options that encourage alternative approaches to

[2:49:44] Voice 12: rural residential density or clustering residential development in appropriate

[2:49:48] Voice 12: locations thank

[2:49:52] Voice 26: you I'm

[2:50:03] Voice 12: not moving it yet because I want to add in there the

[2:50:06] Voice 12: potential for flexibility for housing agreements somewhere

[2:50:12] Voice 26: so after explain

[2:50:16] Voice 12: housing diversity oh yeah yeah you can add it at the end there mm-hmm

[2:50:21] Voice 12: flexibility in housing agreements so

[2:50:25] Voice 26: have you taken direction directly from

[2:50:37] Voice 26: committee of the whole to bring information back or is it usually go through trust council like

[2:50:41] Voice 26: this i'm just wondering if this is a request to staff to help committee of the whole or whether

[2:50:47] Voice 26: it's going to go to council and then come back through committee of the whole i'm you've been

[2:50:53] Voice 18: taking it to executive committee generally as the project manager as a way of acting in a more

[2:50:58] Voice 18: expeditious way right you

[2:51:01] Voice 15: want to change

[2:51:02] Voice 12: that yes okay could you please thanks so is there anything

[2:51:05] Voice 12: Anything else that the committee wants to request staff to bring back information on

[2:51:11] Voice 12: regarding housing?

[2:51:12] Voice 3: Trustee Yates?

[2:51:14] Voice 3: I think we need to vote on and kill the motion that I hastily seconded first.

[2:51:20] Voice 3: I

[2:51:21] Voice 12: didn't call for a seconder and I didn't recognize your seconding.

[2:51:24] Voice 12: Excellent.

[2:51:25] Voice 12: Thank you.

[2:51:28] Voice 12: Participatory non-democracy.

[2:51:30] Voice 12: Trustee Patrick?

[2:51:31] Trustee Patrick: did you want me to talk about the uh advisory policy that i had sent in language for or no

[2:51:39] Voice 12: um were you what what was that regarding do you want staff advice on that or is that a new policy

[2:51:44] Trustee Patrick: it is a staff advice request sure let's throw it in um uh i don't know where it went but it's uh

[2:51:53] Trustee Patrick: it's there somewhere hold on i have to find

[2:51:55] Voice 26: it if you sent it in i have it just give me a minute

[2:51:57] Trustee Patrick: yeah

[2:51:58] Voice 26: okay so

[2:51:59] Trustee Patrick: i was asking for staff advice this would be an advisory policy so don't freak out it

[2:52:04] Trustee Patrick: has the word down zoning in it i know that's something that gets

[2:52:07] Trustee Patrick: everybody uh quite excited

[2:52:09] Trustee Patrick: but the main reason why i was asking that it um that we look at it is because everything we talk

[2:52:15] Trustee Patrick: about is new new new new new new new more more more more more density um when all of us have

[2:52:21] Trustee Patrick: of zoning that dates from 1970 there's a possibility we have some inappropriate zoning

[2:52:27] Trustee Patrick: so this doesn't say go down zone this would be an advisory policy right so I'm just asking

[2:52:33] Trustee Patrick: if we could ask for some options from staff policies that that's not it that's

[2:52:42] Trustee Patrick: oh is

[2:52:43] Voice 26: that the wrong one

[2:52:44] Trustee Patrick: that's the wrong one that's my

[2:52:45] Voice 26: apologies oh

[2:52:46] Trustee Patrick: that's all right that's

[2:52:47] Trustee Patrick: a toby one um is

[2:52:49] Voice 26: this it here no no

[2:52:51] Trustee Patrick: that is your that's the area sorry yeah the one that's there

[2:52:54] Trustee Patrick: so

[2:52:54] Voice 26: you want to put that in here so

[2:52:56] Trustee Patrick: um and

[2:52:57] Voice 26: i'll put bullets in so they're all just laid out easy

[2:52:59] Voice 26: i

[2:53:00] Trustee Patrick: see so yeah looking

[2:53:01] Trustee Patrick: for advisory policy um analysis for down zoning development that's not

[2:53:09] Trustee Patrick: in the best interest of the community there's some key words there but um

[2:53:13] Trustee Patrick: So, like I said, just an advisory policy.

[2:53:17] Voice 12: Okay, we're going to try group editing this.

[2:53:19] Voice 12: Anything to add or remove, I'm going to suggest removing this.

[2:53:23] Voice 12: Some policy options just say just that should be a new bullet, David,

[2:53:27] Voice 12: after housing diversity.

[2:53:29] Voice 26: It is.

[2:53:30] Voice 26: Sorry, what?

[2:53:31] Voice 26: I'm missing that.

[2:53:32] Voice 26: First bullet, yeah.

[2:53:35] Voice 12: Policy options that encourage alternative approaches.

[2:53:41] Voice 12: And then a new bullet,

[2:53:42] Voice 12: clustering residential development appropriate locations.

[2:53:46] Voice 12: yeah thank you okay anything else on this trustee patrick your hand's still up commands and it

[2:54:02] Voice 12: should be recommends that executive committee request staff bring back options uh is that

[2:54:11] Voice 26: just

[2:54:11] Voice 12: of that recommend that executive committee oh

[2:54:17] Voice 26: okay right thank

[2:54:18] Voice 12: you trustee evans

[2:54:23] Voice 17: yeah um i'm not sure how many staff were here and when we had our our non meeting the last time

[2:54:29] Voice 17: but um the second bullet some options to encourage alternative approaches or um the or housing

[2:54:39] Voice 17: diversity i'm not sure quite where it falls uh with regards to um alternative materials for

[2:54:44] Voice 17: housing such as cop housing um rammed earth housing straw bale housing all of those things

[2:54:50] Voice 17: are fire resistant they're fire retardant um so you can have a wildfire run over them and they'll

[2:54:57] Voice 17: still stand and you know the color might change a little but that's about it um they um they're

[2:55:03] Voice 17: very good at you know absorbing the the heat and maintaining heat within the home so they create

[2:55:10] Voice 17: their own heating um so these are really good things to encourage um as a different way forward

[2:55:17] Voice 17: but it's very difficult for anyone who is trying to navigate how to build those so how about types

[2:55:24] Voice 12: and forms types and forms of housing alternate

[2:55:29] Voice 17: types and forms to alternate

[2:55:33] Voice 17: types and forms to what are they called timber frame homes what a traditional

[2:55:40] Voice 17: wood frame is

[2:55:43] Voice 26: that what you're looking for types and forms to residential this

[2:55:46] Voice 26: has densities well

[2:55:47] Voice 12: the types and forms should refer to building types and forms

[2:55:52] Voice 12: approaches to rural residential density is more the zoning so i

[2:55:57] Voice 12: would separate the types and forms

[2:55:58] Voice 12: of building right

[2:56:00] Voice 26: okay yeah okay so let's just copy that alternative so alternative

[2:56:09] Voice 17: and

[2:56:12] Voice 26: forms of buildings to

[2:56:16] Voice 17: um traditional timber frame wood frame so uh alternative types and

[2:56:25] Voice 17: forms of buildings to the traditional wood frame build yeah sure great thank

[2:56:31] Voice 12: you trustee graham

[2:56:34] Voice 6: as much as i support alternative building types i i'm worried that the bc building

[2:56:42] Voice 6: code is perhaps an advocacy policy as opposed to a directive policy um

[2:56:54] Voice 6: Is this

[2:56:55] Voice 12: language to staff, is this language going to bring back some advocacy or directive

[2:57:00] Voice 12: policies as appropriate?

[2:57:04] Voice 1: Yeah, we'll explore a couple of options.

[2:57:08] Voice 1: I mean, following on the conversation at the last non-committee of the whole meeting, I

[2:57:14] Voice 1: began to poke around and look at sort of what would be in the policy or regulatory toolbox

[2:57:19] Voice 1: box related to building materials. And I have some ideas. I don't know how viable they necessarily

[2:57:25] Voice 1: are. So it may very well be better as an advocacy type of policy.

[2:57:31] Voice 12: Fantastic. Okay. We've got some

[2:57:35] Voice 12: text. We've considered it. Is there anything to add? Somebody want to move this? Yes. Trustee

[2:57:45] Voice 12: Graham. Moved by Trustee Graham. Do I have a seconder? Trustee Yates. That was so quick.

[2:57:55] Voice 12: Excellent. Any discussion on the motion?

[2:57:58] Voice 17: Other than Lightning Yates? Nope.

[2:58:03] Voice 12: I'll call for the vote. All those in favor?

[2:58:13] Voice 12: 14? Do we still have 14 in the room?

[2:58:16] Voice 12: You can

[2:58:17] Voice 7: count me as well. I'm having difficulty raising my hand, so

[2:58:20] Voice 7: it'll be 15. I

[2:58:22] Voice 12: think it's 15. And any opposed?

[2:58:26] Voice 7: Please

[2:58:26] Voice 12: lower your hand, sorry.

[2:58:30] Voice 12: Any opposed?

[2:58:32] Voice 12: Okay, that is carried. Excellent work. Thank you, committee. You have been very patient, and I appreciate it's tough chairing these meetings when we want the conversation to be wide-ranging, and yet we have to have some order.

[2:58:49] Voice 12: so still working on the balance welcome all your suggestions can we move to next meeting discussion

[2:58:56] Voice 12: that's on page two of your agendas we've got a slate of options many of them seem to be 1 to

[2:59:06] Voice 12: 4 p.m. which didn't seem to be popular so please freeform jump in here can everyone suggest what

[2:59:19] Voice 12: What is going to work to get quorum and to get through the rest of this?

[2:59:24] Voice 12: Trustee Evans.

[2:59:25] Voice 17: I was going to say we can quickly do a straw poll and see who's available for the February 21st.

[2:59:31] Voice 17: It was noted that there were a lot of doctor's appointments and other appointments at the last meeting, which was an unusual state of affairs.

[2:59:40] Voice 17: So it may be that this will still work.

[2:59:47] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:59:48] Voice 12: So we may be losing quorum.

[2:59:49] Voice 12: generally can I have hands up if people are able to make afternoon that one to

[2:59:56] Voice 12: four time slot on any day are these just impossible

[3:00:00] Voice 12: for working people that was a badly posed question um are people able to make a 1 to 4 p.m

[3:00:08] Voice 12: time slot these are hands up for yes that's lots of them six six people say yay myself included

[3:00:18] Voice 12: okay who cannot make afternoon time slots generally please put your hands up

[3:00:25] Voice 3: toby i can

[3:00:27] Voice 3: make some of them but just not all of them including the next one can we agree on oh sorry

[3:00:32] Voice 8: uh sorry yeah same with me too i can do tuesday wednesday all day long but uh yeah the other

[3:00:39] Voice 8: days though the afternoons don't work

[3:00:41] Voice 3: okay uh trustee yates um i can only make some of them

[3:00:48] Voice 12: okay could we perhaps vote on the next three and i see director freighter um

[3:00:54] Voice 18: i'm just representing

[3:00:55] Voice 18: any Trustee Dodds who advises she cannot make Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday afternoons.

[3:01:03] Voice 12: Okay, so she wouldn't be there at this second. Are we comfortable adopting four or five of these?

[3:01:11] Voice 12: Has everyone checked their calendars? Yeah? All right. Are we ready to adopt all of them?

[3:01:22] Voice 12: Looking for nods and thumbs up. Okay, good. Does somebody want to move? Trustee Graham?

[3:01:30] Voice 12: am

[3:01:31] Voice 5: so moved no

[3:01:33] Voice 12: you're not allowed to say that

[3:01:34] Voice 5: oh i am i am ready to move when you're ready to

[3:01:39] Voice 5: no

[3:01:39] Voice 12: no no i just meant okay if you want to it'd be great if you could read it out if you don't mind

[3:01:44] Trustee Patrick: i i'm hearing a lot of no's to that friday the 21st is that about to be proposed i know i can't

[3:01:51] Trustee Patrick: be there on the 21st either oh

[3:01:53] Voice 12: sorry thank you i wasn't hearing that but um well

[3:01:56] Voice 6: there are a number

[3:01:57] Voice 6: of trustees that are not at this meeting and maybe they could make that one so you know

[3:02:01] Voice 6: we can't all make them all obviously that's

[3:02:03] Voice 12: true who cannot make the first meeting the 21st

[3:02:10] Voice 12: one okay two three sorry your hands are up and down one two three

[3:02:15] Voice 12: and

[3:02:18] Voice 12: Janine Dobbs

[3:02:19] Voice 12: or

[3:02:21] Voice 12: five of us

[3:02:23] Voice 12: and Trustee Harris

[3:02:24] Voice 12: so that's

[3:02:27] Voice 12: is that enough to break quorum

[3:02:30] Voice 12: it kind of is

[3:02:31] Voice 12: so the next meeting would be Thursday

[3:02:34] Voice 12: March 6th can everyone make

[3:02:36] Voice 12: that one hands down please

[3:02:38] Voice 12: sorry

[3:02:40] Voice 17: may I ask Charlotte

[3:02:41] Voice 17: can we send out a doodle poll

[3:02:44] Voice 17: first for March 21st and see

[3:02:46] Voice 17: how many of trust council are available because there's only 13 or so of us here out of 26.

[3:02:53] Voice 17: so i think that that's unfair to assume that the others who are not present right now are

[3:03:00] Voice 17: not available yeah

[3:03:02] Voice 12: it's just that this this is the group that seems to consistently come trusty

[3:03:08] Voice 12: porthock um

[3:03:10] Voice 13: yeah this feels like a i've been very confused about the the sort of format of the

[3:03:16] Voice 13: questions around each thing because there's there's nuances to to to to like my answers for

[3:03:22] Voice 13: a lot of these um is it are we obligated to to arrive at a decision on this right here and now

[3:03:29] Voice 13: or is it possible to do this through a doodle poll because i i feel like that's going to be

[3:03:33] Voice 13: a more effective way of uh actually canvassing a larger number of people and also yeah it'd be

[3:03:40] Voice 13: it'd be a better way to go about it for me but i'm yeah well

[3:03:44] Voice 12: staff have proposed these dates

[3:03:46] Voice 12: in advance so that everyone could check their calendars um but that's

[3:03:53] Voice 13: that i i get that it's

[3:03:55] Voice 13: it's the question of we we keep sort of bouncing back and forth between okay who can make this day

[3:04:01] Voice 13: and then okay who can't make that day well we're trying to

[3:04:04] Voice 13: i get

[3:04:05] Voice 12: it we're trying to set one meeting

[3:04:07] Voice 12: day because otherwise we have to do an rwm for that next meeting trustee luckham yeah just that

[3:04:15] Voice 7: But, you know, I think the primary thing here is that people need advanced notice to be able to schedule these meetings in their calendar and make alternative arrangements where necessary, me included.

[3:04:27] Voice 7: And so if we just advance this, we can certainly solicit counsel for some messaging that says, all right, this has been proposed by the committee.

[3:04:38] Voice 7: if you can't make it let us know and then we can always cancel one of these meetings and

[3:04:43] Voice 7: schedule them further out if necessary but we could argue this forever i think so many variations

[3:04:52] Voice 7: thank

[3:04:53] Voice 18: you director freighter um yes i'll just advise these are the dates that we could find

[3:04:58] Voice 18: in the very packed committee meetings calendar alexandra is not here to speak to all the selection

[3:05:03] Voice 18: But I do note in the committee meetings calendar, the Friday morning is not booked.

[3:05:08] Voice 18: If it's an afternoon issue on that date, you might want to discuss that.

[3:05:12] Voice 18: But other than that, I think this is likely what we have to offer.

[3:05:17] Voice 18: Of course, if you need to, you could move an afternoon session to an evening, but there aren't many other available dates for us to use.

[3:05:23] Voice 18: I'll just let you know that it would be very beneficial to adopt some tonight because, of course,

[3:05:27] Voice 18: all those doctor's appointments and personal commitments might be able to be juggled if you had advanced notice and had a booking in your calendar.

[3:05:33] Voice 18: in advance. And I know I've heard the plea from Trustee Morrison many times. So I know it would

[3:05:38] Voice 18: be beneficial for us to get these booked and have some certainty for people. Thank you. Trustee

[3:05:44] Voice 12: Getty, Trustee Fass, Trustee Peterson.

[3:05:46] Voice 2: At the rate that we're going, do we need all of these meetings?

[3:05:50] Voice 2: We're at, you know, 3.4, .12, and we've got, you know, up to 3.5, .21. It looks like there's about

[3:06:00] Voice 2: 30 maybe a bit more of these paragraphs so at the rate that we're going or is

[3:06:10] Voice 2: this enough or is this too many you know do we have any flexibility because the

[3:06:15] Voice 2: other thing is if there's problems with daytime meetings 8 of the 9 here are 1

[3:06:20] Voice 2: to 4 so in terms of I know it's really really hard to figure out all the

[3:06:26] Voice 2: the scheduling, but figuring out what the problems are for people in terms of why they haven't shown

[3:06:33] Voice 2: up, that might be interesting data as well.

[3:06:37] Voice 12: Thank you. Trustees, can I skip over you and

[3:06:40] Voice 12: go to our CAO, or you might have some advice?

[3:06:45] Voice 21: Thank you. Just to Trustee Getty's question,

[3:06:48] Voice 21: beyond the policy statement work, we also have a number of requests from Trust Council for

[3:06:53] Voice 21: for other items to bring to Committee of the Whole

[3:06:56] Voice 21: and between now and June.

[3:06:58] Voice 21: And so that's why we've scheduled them out that way

[3:07:02] Voice 21: that we have other pieces

[3:07:04] Voice 21: such as a governance committee discussion

[3:07:05] Voice 21: and other pieces that are scheduled

[3:07:08] Voice 21: to hopefully come to Committee of the Whole

[3:07:09] Voice 21: over the next few months.

[3:07:11] Voice 21: So that's why we plan these all out.

[3:07:12] Voice 21: If we don't end up needing them all,

[3:07:14] Voice 21: then we can always cancel as Trustee Luckham said,

[3:07:17] Voice 21: but it's not just to address the policy statement.

[3:07:20] Voice 21: Thanks.

[3:07:21] Voice 21: Thanks.

[3:07:23] Voice 12: Okay. And I'll note that we're at 13. So we may lose quorum if we don't conclude this

[3:07:29] Voice 12: discussion. Trustee Peterson. Hey, hey. Oh, I'm sorry. I moved my screen. Trustee Fast.

[3:07:35] Voice 12: Thank

[3:07:36] Trustee Fast: you. One a second. David Graham's motion. List of one to nine. I did look through my

[3:07:43] Trustee Fast: calendar. I can make almost all of them if I juggle things around. And at least we'll have

[3:07:48] Trustee Fast: have a list that we can work from that's my seconding thank you okay

[3:07:52] Voice 12: thank

[3:07:54] Trustee Fast: you trustee peterson

[3:07:55] Voice 12: on the you know

[3:07:57] Voice 23: i was going to move the motion so i second the second uh let's vote on it

[3:08:01] Voice 23: if we want to ask staff to do doodle polling great whatever let's let's get this part done

[3:08:07] Voice 23: thank you

[3:08:08] Voice 12: thank you trustee luckham anything else

[3:08:10] Voice 7: well thank you only that um there's pressure

[3:08:14] Voice 7: to do less at in-person council meetings and committee the whole is your tool and

[3:08:20] Voice 7: there's lots of things to discuss at committee the whole so let's get on with

[3:08:23] Voice 7: it thank you

[3:08:24] Voice 12: excellent I will call for the vote on the motion on the screen all

[3:08:29] Voice 12: those in favor 12 that is 12 in favor I believe still have quorum please lower

[3:08:43] Voice 12: your hands any opposed none opposed that is carried thank you committee members i see staff

[3:08:53] Voice 12: uh director freighter oh

[3:08:56] Voice 18: that's sorry i did not mean to have my hand up thank you okay

[3:08:58] Voice 12: yeah i was