South Pender Island Local Trust Committee community information meeting, March 27, 2025

[0:00:01] Trustee Elliott: We're all in, Jeff.

[0:00:02] Voice 5: That'll help.

[0:00:03] Trustee Elliott: Can

[0:00:03] Voice 5: I go around to you?

[0:00:04] Voice 5: Yes.

[0:00:04] Voice 5: All right.

[0:00:05] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:00:05] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[0:00:07] Trustee Elliott: Ooh.

[0:00:09] Trustee Elliott: I thought I don't have a pulpit.

[0:00:14] Trustee Elliott: Good morning.

[0:00:15] Trustee Elliott: I'm Icewood Chael, everyone.

[0:00:18] Trustee Elliott: That means good day in St. Johnston,

[0:00:21] Trustee Elliott: and I'm still working on my pronunciation.

[0:00:23] Trustee Elliott: We'll call this meeting to order,

[0:00:25] Trustee Elliott: and I want to begin with a territorial acknowledgement.

[0:00:28] Trustee Elliott: This area, Sudeas, is now known as South Pender Island, well, North Pender Island today, has

[0:00:38] Trustee Elliott: been home to the Wissetnich peoples, who are Central Coast Salish peoples and Tsimshatlan

[0:00:44] Trustee Elliott: speaking peoples since time immemorial.

[0:00:46] Trustee Elliott: So we'd like to begin by acknowledging that the land and waters on which we gather is

[0:00:52] Trustee Elliott: within the traditional territory of the Wissetnich Coast Salish peoples.

[0:00:55] Trustee Elliott: The South Pender Island Local Trust Committee is committed to reconciliation and the acknowledgement

[0:01:02] Trustee Elliott: of Indigenous place and history, and to continue building relationships with and on the people

[0:01:09] Trustee Elliott: of these lands and waters.

[0:01:11] Trustee Elliott: So the Tsimshatlan-speaking peoples we know maintain their connection to this area.

[0:01:16] Trustee Elliott: And so we want to acknowledge that relationship to the land, culture and spirit of this place

[0:01:21] Trustee Elliott: to this day.

[0:01:22] Trustee Elliott: my name is uh chair toby elliott i'm elected on gabriela island and i'm the chair of the

[0:01:29] Trustee Elliott: south pender local trust committee and i'm christina evans and so we'll begin by um

[0:01:40] Trustee Elliott: amending or adopting the agenda um so as you'll note there was no town hall proposed for this

[0:01:48] Trustee Elliott: agenda it was originally conceived to be a special meeting for the ltc to consider some of the

[0:01:55] Trustee Elliott: outstanding questions of the proposed draft bylaw 129 um but we've heard that there's some questions

[0:02:02] Trustee Elliott: and comments still from people who are uh coming up to speed with the project so trustees do you

[0:02:09] Trustee Elliott: want to add a telephone session yeah yeah

[0:02:14] Voice 5: i was

[0:02:16] Trustee Evans: gonna say when we agreed to the um the schedule

[0:02:20] Trustee Evans: at the last meeting my understanding was that this was going to be a special meeting with

[0:02:25] Trustee Evans: opening the business and then going into a community information meeting which is kind

[0:02:29] Trustee Evans: of what it says in here that is what i have agreed to and what i have voted on and i can't

[0:02:35] Trustee Evans: oh sorry is that better oh there we go um at the last meeting um the schedule that we see in here

[0:02:43] Trustee Evans: i thought this meeting was going to open as business meeting and then go into a community

[0:02:48] Trustee Evans: information meeting that is what i voted on that is what i understood and that's what it says in

[0:02:52] Trustee Evans: here so if that is incorrect um i'd like to have a discussion about that before adopting this agenda

[0:02:59] Trustee Evans: because I would still like to have at least a town hall if not the community information meeting

[0:03:06] Trustee Evans: because if we don't follow this then we're pushing the whole project by another another

[0:03:12] Trustee Evans: meeting in this and I'm not okay with what

[0:03:18] Voice 15: she says and

[0:03:21] Trustee Elliott: so sorry just because you can't see by

[0:03:23] Trustee Elliott: this we're referring to the statutory requirements there is a timeline listed on page 14 of the

[0:03:28] Trustee Elliott: the agenda um so uh planner stockville can you just clarify because there is no community

[0:03:34] Trustee Elliott: information meeting in this agenda at what point um i believe we had to have a draft bylaw to

[0:03:42] Trustee Elliott: discuss and this draft bylaw is still under discussion by the ltc so when that is concluded

[0:03:48] Trustee Elliott: and we have a draft bylaw then is that the community information meeting or should we

[0:03:52] Trustee Elliott: just have a town hall now or what trustee coven said there yeah

[0:03:57] Voice 2: so i think if you call it a town

[0:04:00] Voice 2: hall or a community information meeting it sounds like it's really important today for the ltc to

[0:04:06] Voice 2: hear from community members because community members had come to the meeting with the intention

[0:04:12] Voice 2: to speak to the draft bylaw on the agenda so there was some miscommunication perhaps at the

[0:04:20] Voice 2: the last meeting between staff, assuming that it was more a further discussion that the LTC

[0:04:25] Voice 2: needed to have regarding the maximum floor area. But as there are community members that are

[0:04:32] Voice 2: there today, the LTC can add a town hall to the agenda, and that should address that.

[0:04:40] Voice 2: There will be opportunities further on in this project for a formal community information

[0:04:46] Voice 2: information meeting but adding a town hall to this agenda would satisfy those community members

[0:04:52] Voice 2: who are in attendance today and would like to speak okay

[0:04:56] Trustee Elliott: so the only question in the town hall

[0:05:00] Trustee Elliott: before or after ltc discussion of the 5.1 i'm assuming before i was going to say after oh okay

[0:05:09] yeah

[0:05:11] Voice 5: i'm fine right so

[0:05:13] Trustee Evans: okay um because this because this isn't even at first reading yet

[0:05:20] Trustee Evans: there's still an opportunity for change I think it might be more practical for people to have

[0:05:25] Trustee Evans: conversation after

[0:05:26] Voice 5: I don't know

[0:05:28] Voice 5: I feel

[0:05:31] Voice 13: a little restricted by the

[0:05:34] Voice 15: structure of the town hall I

[0:05:39] Voice 15: would prefer I may not get this but my preference would be as we go through if we are having a lot

[0:05:46] Voice 15: of questions amongst us about you know we don't fully understand that point of view or that point

[0:05:51] Voice 15: to be on a specific issue if we could just ask them but

[0:05:55] Trustee Elliott: community members ask community members

[0:05:57] Voice 15: is that we specifically want input on you know whatever it is we're talking about at the moment

[0:06:02] Voice 15: and then we move on to the next thing and then until we ask again and if somebody feels strongly

[0:06:09] Voice 15: that when speaking we're not thinking of that if somebody puts their hand up i think we would

[0:06:15] Voice 15: recognize it but that would be my preference but i i realize that's outside of that but we have

[0:06:22] Voice 15: kind of done that at most of our meetings anyhow but anyway that's kind of what i think yeah i'm

[0:06:30] Trustee Evans: just going to say i think the main topic here is going to be the house size discussion so like

[0:06:36] Trustee Evans: again i'll leave that to the chair to decide so

[0:06:40] Trustee Elliott: considerations are we've received a lot of input

[0:06:43] Trustee Elliott: on the topic but still not everybody is necessarily up to speed some may have questions

[0:06:49] Trustee Elliott: and some may have information that the LTC needs to consider so I'm not in favor of debating back

[0:06:56] Trustee Elliott: and forth with community members I think that really muddies things up so why don't we have

[0:07:01] Trustee Elliott: a town hall at the beginning for input that community members have not submitted or want

[0:07:11] Trustee Elliott: want to clarify and by that I mean we've received a lot of letters I could get a summary but we've

[0:07:18] Trustee Elliott: read them all um if if there's something that you're like well I was thinking of this but

[0:07:24] Trustee Elliott: this is now what I believe please we're looking for new information so please don't feel you have

[0:07:29] Trustee Elliott: to restate and then if you've got questions that the planner can answer please ask those questions

[0:07:37] Trustee Elliott: and the ltc with the planner can bring those answers forward if we need another town hall at

[0:07:44] Trustee Elliott: the end i really don't think it'll be necessary but i think it's important if we need to hear

[0:07:49] Trustee Elliott: new information to hear that before we discuss the draft bylaw was that satisfactory okay so

[0:07:57] Trustee Elliott: proposing to amend the agenda by adding a town hall at five well after the minutes 4.1 so before

[0:08:07] Trustee Elliott: discussion of business item 5.1. Is that okay Catherine? Yeah. Somebody named Catherine here?

[0:08:18] Trustee Elliott: The minute taker's name is Catherine. So let's move into adoption of the minutes.

[0:08:24] Trustee Elliott: Is there any changes?

[0:08:27] Trustee Evans: I don't have any changes that I know. I don't think it's

[0:08:33] Trustee Evans: no changes from okay

[0:08:35] Trustee Elliott: so Catherine um just a few small corrections on page two uh page one of the

[0:08:44] Trustee Elliott: minutes item 3.13.2 the letter dated February 10th from member of parliament Elizabeth May

[0:08:51] Trustee Elliott: um it was it was via the southern gulf islands it was on behalf of the southern gulf islands forum

[0:08:59] Trustee Elliott: regarding advocacy to the ministry of transport on bill c33 it wasn't really regarding the south

[0:09:07] Trustee Elliott: coast violence forum it was regarding uh advocacy on bill c33 which was railway safety and marine

[0:09:13] Trustee Elliott: issues just to clarify that okay and then page three page two of the minutes under the chair's

[0:09:26] Trustee Elliott: report item five uh acknowledging the work of islands trust chair luckham will be stepping down

[0:09:34] Trustee Elliott: from that should read islands trust council not executive committee well and executive committee

[0:09:40] Trustee Elliott: by default but just islands trust council and then the second bullet these two i think conflate

[0:09:49] Trustee Elliott: it's not a correct representation um so it should read it's regarding the reconciliation learning

[0:09:56] Trustee Elliott: Group, which will be looking at cultural safety across the organization and support the

[0:10:09] Trustee Elliott: Reconciliation Action Plan with initiatives and reconciliation-related activities.

[0:10:18] Trustee Elliott: Does that make sense?

[0:10:20] Trustee Elliott: Yes.

[0:10:21] Trustee Elliott: Thank you so much.

[0:10:25] Voice 5: Okay, and

[0:10:29] Trustee Evans: that's all for me.

[0:10:30] Trustee Evans: And then I have one added as well on page six, where it says obtaining a public-facing legal opinion on the term legal non-conforming is needed.

[0:10:43] Trustee Evans: Can we change the word term to issue?

[0:10:47] Trustee Evans: Because it's obtaining a public-facing legal opinion on the issue of legal non-conforming, not the term.

[0:10:55] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[0:10:56] Trustee Elliott: Thank you, Catherine.

[0:10:58] Trustee Elliott: I'm sorry, one more.

[0:10:58] Trustee Elliott: Back on page five.

[0:11:01] Trustee Elliott: Very small.

[0:11:02] Trustee Elliott: it's uh the second last bullet the height of a story has an ey it's not a fairy tale it's

[0:11:08] Trustee Elliott: story of a house so just change that because it caught my mind i used to be a coffee editor i'm

[0:11:13] Trustee Elliott: sorry okay is there any more changes can we adopt the uh minutes dated february 14th 2025 as amended

[0:11:24] Trustee Elliott: Okay. All in favour? Aye. Great. Thank you. So now we'll move into, we'll open the floor for town hall. So please address questions and comments to the local trust committee, not to other community members.

[0:11:39] Trustee Elliott: Please be specific on the topics. Give us a chance to get caught up to what you wish to address. State your name and speak respectfully as we always do.

[0:11:49] Trustee Evans: I was just going to ask the people so everyone can hear should we walk up to the front and use

[0:11:53] Trustee Evans: the microphone?

[0:11:54] Trustee Elliott: Sure if Karen's an issue we can definitely move the microphone.

[0:12:01] Trustee Elliott: Right up here and come on up if you wish. The floor is yours.

[0:12:15] Voice 5: I'm

[0:12:18] Voice 13: Richard Friesen, Nell Road, South Bender Island. I've already submitted a letter of

[0:12:25] Voice 13: support for Bill 129, so I won't go into the details of that. There are just two further

[0:12:30] Voice 13: points. One is that I'd appreciate if the designation be amended for this purpose

[0:12:43] Voice 13: to non-conforming or conforming. The word legal has no real implication there

[0:12:49] Voice 13: unless you're using it as a crack house I assume that you are legal. And the

[0:12:54] Voice 13: second is I would encourage the trustees to get to the point where they can table

[0:12:59] Voice 13: bill 129 to get a first reading in this meeting

[0:13:06] Trustee Elliott: okay i'm going to ask so as we go just to clarify things i do have a question for the planner on

[0:13:13] Trustee Elliott: if you can bring back and clarify at the end of town hall that the terminology of the local

[0:13:19] Trustee Elliott: government acts of conforming or legal non-conforming because that is still an

[0:13:24] Trustee Elliott: ongoing question thank you

[0:13:25] Voice 5: um other comments yes thank

[0:13:39] Voice 3: you and and richard thanks for that comment

[0:13:47] Voice 3: so uh the the issue of legal non-conforming is really important and um i agree with trustee

[0:13:55] Voice 3: evidence that that issue needs to be looked at carefully. The idea of legal non-conforming

[0:14:04] Voice 3: comes from the Government Act. That's really what that was. And the introduction of 5.6

[0:14:13] Voice 3: in our bylaw that provides the protection within our bylaw rather than the Local Government

[0:14:20] Voice 3: an act makes all properties on south pender island as of september 15 2022 legally conforming

[0:14:33] or conforming either one is true so i think it's a distinction without a difference

[0:14:39] but

[0:14:39] Voice 3: i just wanted to make that point thank you and

[0:14:45] Voice 5: anyone with questions things that we need to

[0:14:47] Voice 5: clarify yes i'm

[0:14:56] Voice 12: going to try it from here let me know if you can't hear me but um i'm

[0:15:01] Voice 12: unfortunately would have to take issue with the last statement

[0:15:07] Trustee Elliott: or just come closer to the mic there gordy thanks

[0:15:11] Trustee Elliott: we need we need staff online to be able to hear you too sorry yeah

[0:15:15] Trustee Elliott: the room's just so

[0:15:16] Trustee Elliott: large that the microphone or the the mic on the camera is not great to get it up

[0:15:26] Voice 12: I would take issue with conforming versus non-conforming I think it's very simple if we

[0:15:36] Voice 12: are using the term non-conforming that there must be credence to that whether it's legal or

[0:15:42] Voice 12: otherwise it's really not the issue you either are in compliance with the bylaw or you're not

[0:15:48] Voice 12: So if you're at a 15-foot setback, you're not in compliance with the bylaw, therefore you're non-conforming.

[0:15:55] Voice 12: It's quite simple.

[0:15:57] Voice 12: And if we try to confuse the issue whether it's legally, lawfully, blah, blah, blah, it's two simple states.

[0:16:07] Voice 12: You either are conforming or you're not conforming.

[0:16:09] Voice 12: And in my mind, that's a major issue.

[0:16:13] Voice 12: And what happened with bylaw 122 is that roughly 30% of the properties became noncompliant or do not conform to the current bylaw.

[0:16:25] Voice 12: The proposed changes in most of these proposals for N129 not only remove those properties

[0:16:38] Voice 12: that were put into non-compliance or non-conforming, but it also preserves the concern that proponents

[0:16:49] Voice 12: of 122 have it in that we're going to have large mega houses being built you know in the future

[0:17:01] Voice 12: that protection is still there with a lot of the proposals that were proposed by the apc and

[0:17:10] Voice 12: by the trustee so i think it's very clear that if you look at your own property and if your

[0:17:19] Voice 12: Your house size for the lot that you're on is larger than what the current bylaw says.

[0:17:25] Voice 12: You're non-compliant.

[0:17:27] Voice 12: You're legally non-compliant,

[0:17:29] Voice 12: but you're still non-compliant.

[0:17:31] Voice 12: So I think we need to drop the term legally lawful, all that kind of thing,

[0:17:36] Voice 12: and deal with a simple term of conform versus non-conform.

[0:17:42] Voice 12: It's pretty simple.

[0:17:43] Voice 12: Thank you.

[0:17:48] Voice 5: Small point of order.

[0:17:49] Voice 5: Good.

[0:17:50] Voice 5: uh we can't just we can ask those thank you

[0:17:57] Voice 3: and and thanks for that perspective um so the question

[0:18:03] Voice 3: is and there's legal minds in this room better than mine but uh the question is whether that

[0:18:10] house is legally conforming with the bylaw that's that's what it is or whether it's conforming to

[0:18:18] the bylaw. And as I said before, a distinction without a difference. What's key here is some

[0:18:29] Voice 3: people would like to say if something isn't in sync with a particular item in the bylaw,

[0:18:35] Voice 3: then it's out of sync. The issue is whether it's conforming with the bylaw and the two,

[0:18:41] Voice 3: or let's say 5.6 of the bylaw that does provide that all properties are conforming with the bylaw

[0:18:51] as

[0:18:52] Voice 3: of September 15, 2022. So I just think that maybe the staff should comment on this so that

[0:19:00] Voice 3: we're not going back and forth. Thank you. This

[0:19:11] Trustee Evans: LTC has recognized that there is

[0:19:13] Trustee Evans: is a division in understanding here.

[0:19:17] Trustee Evans: And we have already stated

[0:19:19] Trustee Evans: that we are going to go for a legal opinion

[0:19:21] Trustee Evans: and have a public-facing legal opinion

[0:19:24] Trustee Evans: that everyone can look at.

[0:19:26] Trustee Evans: So hopefully that will put this to rest.

[0:19:29] Trustee Evans: So between now and then,

[0:19:31] Trustee Evans: regarding this issue,

[0:19:32] Trustee Evans: whether it's conforming or non-conforming,

[0:19:34] Trustee Evans: we're going to go for a legal opinion.

[0:19:37] Trustee Evans: Let's take it there.

[0:19:42] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, I'm just reminded not to debate one another.

[0:19:46] Trustee Elliott: Present your views. If we need to add points of clarification or correction or ask information, we will seek advice from staff. Thanks.

[0:19:57] Voice 15: Do you have any timeline for when the review?

[0:20:03] Trustee Elliott: Let's discuss that during our business discussion. So we've got to finish the town hall right now. Thank you.

[0:20:09] Trustee Elliott: Anyone else?

[0:20:11] Voice 5: Sorry to cut you off.

[0:20:13] Trustee Elliott: Okay. So it sounds like we've heard from everyone.

[0:20:19] Trustee Elliott: sounds like we've heard from everyone um thank you so much for your comments and input

[0:20:24] Trustee Elliott: we'll now consider this town hall closed and move into the main item

[0:20:28] Trustee Elliott: for discussion so item 5.1 the draft bylaw 129 and i'll give the floor to partner stockdale online

[0:20:43] Voice 2: thank you chair elliott and to the ltc and to the community members in attendance

[0:20:49] Voice 2: attendance I'll do my best to speak slowly and precisely so everybody is able to hear me

[0:20:58] Voice 2: and if there is an issue with the quality of the sound please pause me and we can figure that out

[0:21:06] Voice 2: before I do this long preamble and nobody's able to hear me. Thank you sounds good you're good. Okay

[0:21:13] Voice 2: Okay, wonderful. So I will go briefly over the staff report that's attached to today's agenda.

[0:21:22] Voice 2: First, this staff report is to provide the LTC with the updated draft bylaw for the minor

[0:21:30] Voice 2: land use amendment project and to seek further amendments specifically to maximum floor area.

[0:21:38] Voice 2: So at the previous LTC meeting on February 14th, the LTC passed three resolutions in regards to this project.

[0:21:52] Voice 2: One was to amend the definition of floor area to increase a story, the height of a story, from 1.5 meters to 1.8 meters.

[0:22:06] Voice 2: and that amendment you can now see in the draft bylaw attached to this agenda and it's also on

[0:22:13] Voice 2: the project web page as well. The second resolution was to schedule a special meeting which we are in

[0:22:21] Voice 2: attendance today and the third was to amend the project charter to include a public hearing

[0:22:29] Voice 2: hearing rather than a notice of first reading and to also amend the budget.

[0:22:35] Voice 2: I do want to highlight the importance of the LTC project web page.

[0:22:41] Voice 2: When you go to this web page, you'll see

[0:22:43] Voice 2: four or pardon me, seven folders regarding the project.

[0:22:49] Voice 2: When you click on those folders,

[0:22:51] Voice 2: they open and there'll be a list of further information.

[0:22:54] Voice 2: So in order to see the updated project charter, you'd be clicking on the first folder called about the project.

[0:23:03] Voice 2: project. The updated draft bylaw is under folder three and the ever important consolidation bylaw

[0:23:13] Voice 2: and what that means is that we've integrated the draft bylaw 129 into the land use bylaw 114.

[0:23:25] Voice 2: So you get an idea of what it would look like if this bylaw was adopted as is and those

[0:23:32] Voice 2: consolidated and black line bylaws are under folder six. So as mentioned on page 11 of the

[0:23:43] Voice 2: agenda or page two of the staff report, staff have further amended the draft bylaw based on

[0:23:51] Voice 2: conversations the LTC had at the February 14th meeting. I won't go into all of those, but I made

[0:23:59] Voice 2: a point excuse me of listing all of those amendments so they're easily to be tracked

[0:24:04] Voice 2: and that's on page two of the agenda um there is also uh two further amendments the ltc was

[0:24:15] Voice 2: considering in terms of the natural boundary of the sea and also amending a section in regards

[0:24:22] Voice 2: to bylaw enforcement inspection and staff have provided rationale as why staff does not

[0:24:30] Voice 2: recommend those amendments at this time. But the majority of this staff report is discussing

[0:24:38] Voice 2: maximum floor area and the options the LTC was considering at the last meeting. The first option

[0:24:46] Voice 2: in the staff report is to increase the maximum floor area for new dwellings by 500 feet squared

[0:24:57] Voice 2: so the existing numbers in the current land use bylaw are right now they start at 2500 square feet

[0:25:09] Voice 2: for a property that's less than one acre then it goes up 3,000 square feet 3,500 square feet

[0:25:17] Voice 2: 3,750 square feet and 4,000 square feet respectively those numbers would be increased

[0:25:25] Voice 2: by 500 square feet and that would give new property owners that are constructing their

[0:25:35] Voice 2: new dwellings, a bit of flexibility with that extra 500 square meters if they require or would

[0:25:42] Voice 2: like to use that space as livable space or potentially for storage. And that leads into

[0:25:50] Voice 2: option two. There was a discussion at the last meeting that perhaps the current maximum floor

[0:25:58] Voice 2: floor area for dwellings would stay the same as they exist in the current Land Use By-law 114,

[0:26:07] Voice 2: but there would be an option for property owners to construct an attached garage

[0:26:15] Voice 2: up to a maximum of 500 square feet. Now that wouldn't be included in the maximum floor area

[0:26:24] Voice 2: of a dwelling unit. If the LTC chooses this option, staff would recommend a new definition

[0:26:32] Voice 2: to be added that would clarify what an attached garage is. And there is a draft definition

[0:26:40] Voice 2: in the staff report. And that is, and this can be changed if the LTC decides on option number two,

[0:26:49] Voice 2: this is just a draft definition it states an attached garage means a accessory non-habital

[0:26:56] Voice 2: space used for storage only and connected to a dwelling by at least one shared internal wall.

[0:27:06] Voice 2: Now staff do have some concerns with this option and those are outlined on page four of the staff

[0:27:15] Voice 2: report and those are that site plans will need to be properly labeled stating that that portion of

[0:27:23] Voice 2: the house is an attached garage and of course we when we receive site plans we'd also need to ensure

[0:27:33] Voice 2: that the max or the floor area of that attached garage is also noted on the site plan. I've

[0:27:44] Voice 2: somebody could potentially put an attached garage on their site plan, build the attached garage,

[0:27:52] Voice 2: but potentially convert this space into livable space, which would then not comply with the bylaw.

[0:28:00] Voice 2: There is also ambiguity regarding if an attached garage would be included in the calculation for

[0:28:08] Voice 2: the total floor area of all buildings there could also be interpretation challenges with the

[0:28:14] Voice 2: definition of an attached garage does that mean a carport what happens if one side is open and so

[0:28:21] Voice 2: forth there's also potential confusion about would this apply to existing dwellings and again as the

[0:28:31] Voice 2: the draft definition for an attached garage states,

[0:28:34] Voice 2: it really would be for storage only,

[0:28:37] Voice 2: storage of personal goods or vehicles.

[0:28:40] Voice 2: It would not provide property owners

[0:28:42] Voice 2: with the flexibility to use this space.

[0:28:46] Voice 2: So there are a number of concerns addressed with option two.

[0:28:50] Voice 2: We don't necessarily have the answers to all these concerns,

[0:28:53] Voice 2: but if the LTC is wishing to pursue option two,

[0:28:59] Voice 2: we'll ensure that those issues identified could be solved, if we can, or clarified.

[0:29:08] Voice 2: And the other item in the staff report is this discussion regarding existing dwellings

[0:29:19] Voice 2: that were on the lot prior to the adoption of bylaw 122 and clarifying the land use bylaw

[0:29:30] Voice 2: and the regulations with perhaps removing that clause but building putting it into a regulation

[0:29:38] Voice 2: that's easier to read and there is an example of that in the the staff report so there is

[0:29:48] Voice 2: a sentence here that would allow a property owner to not only again reconstruct or alter

[0:29:58] Voice 2: the legal dwelling

[0:29:59] Voice 2: Welling.

[0:30:00] Voice 2: at the time of September 15th, 2022, but would also allow them to rebuild the dwelling as long

[0:30:08] Voice 2: as it doesn't exceed the maximum floor areas in the table attached. Now, this table in the staff

[0:30:16] Voice 2: report is the table from bylaw 114 prior to the adoption of 112. So the LTC does have the ability

[0:30:26] Voice 2: to change these numbers as well so those are the three options in the staff report there

[0:30:33] Voice 2: I will leave it there because it really is a discussion with the LTC and which options may

[0:30:41] Voice 2: work best and I just want to speak to also this term legal in the term legal non-conforming

[0:30:48] Voice 2: conforming legal mentions that a legal building or structure means that it complies with all

[0:30:55] Voice 2: aspects of the land use bylaw not just that particular regulation use or density

[0:31:05] Voice 2: referred in the local government act so when we speak to a legal dwelling that means it complies

[0:31:13] Voice 2: with the height it complies with the setback it complies with the use and it complies with the

[0:31:18] Voice 2: the density so I just wanted to make sure that that was noted that's why we use the term legal

[0:31:24] Voice 2: that it's it was lawfully constructed and I will leave it at that and I'm happy to answer any

[0:31:32] Voice 2: questions that the LTC may have.

[0:31:40] Trustee Elliott: So just a question legal dwelling complies with the height

[0:31:44] Trustee Elliott: setback use and density so all aspects of the land use bylaw that it was lawfully constructed

[0:31:50] Trustee Elliott: constructed complying with all those terms at the time of that current bylaw so what we're trying

[0:31:56] Trustee Elliott: to clarify for the community is the the use of the word legal non-conforming that term as you said

[0:32:05] Trustee Elliott: so it's the legal non-conforming is that what's used in the local government act

[0:32:09] Voice 2: so and when they're referring the local government act it does use the term lawful

[0:32:15] Voice 2: when you're referring to when the use and density has changed, although it doesn't use the term

[0:32:23] Voice 2: legal when referencing sighting and size regulations. So again, if I were to use the

[0:32:30] Voice 2: example of a house, it was constructed 20 years ago, and it was 2000 square feet, and it met

[0:32:39] Voice 2: all the regulations in the bylaw. It was compliant with maximum floor areas, compliant with height

[0:32:45] Voice 2: and setbacks and so forth. And then a few years ago, the bylaw changed and now a house cannot

[0:32:54] Voice 2: be constructed over 1500 square feet. What that means it was legally or lawfully constructed at

[0:33:02] Voice 2: that time it was built, but now it no longer conforms to the maximum floor area. So it's

[0:33:08] Voice 2: legally non-conforming question

[0:33:15] Voice 5: from that point or do you want to get into

[0:33:17] Voice 5: the substance

[0:33:19] Trustee Elliott: so any more questions on that point or do you want to get into the substance you mentioned

[0:33:24] Trustee Elliott: we're going to get a legal opinion and trustee bulk you wanted to discuss timeline about that

[0:33:30] Trustee Elliott: yeah

[0:33:33] Voice 5: okay

[0:33:34] Trustee Evans: yeah so to your question um once we have decided what the sizes are and what the

[0:33:41] Trustee Evans: language is going to be, then this should go to a legal opinion. And based on the wording

[0:33:49] Trustee Evans: that we're using, how it affects everybody and their property. And I think that will

[0:33:57] Trustee Evans: help put things to bed. But we can't send it out until we've decided on the sizing and

[0:34:02] Trustee Evans: the wording and everything else. If we're still changing it, we can't send it out for

[0:34:07] Trustee Evans: an opinion if we're still changing it. We have to wait until we're settled on the wording.

[0:34:16] Voice 15: Question on what do you mean by changing the wording? Like what wording do you mean?

[0:34:23] Trustee Evans: Right now, it's still changing the Bible. We haven't settled

[0:34:26] Voice 10: on what, we haven't come to a decision on what it's going to be yet.

[0:34:30] Voice 15: Right. But nor does that relate to people having a legal opinion on the term legally non-conforming because we're not changing that.

[0:34:41] Voice 15: And also, we have to be aware that we're not, we're not the authority applying that term.

[0:34:50] Voice 15: we are borrowing it or we're using it from the way it's being dictated to us by the legislators

[0:34:58] Voice 15: yeah anyway yeah

[0:35:00] Trustee Evans: we're not going to do we're not going to go for a legal opinion on the term we're

[0:35:03] Trustee Evans: going to go for a legal opinion on the issue the issue that we're having with how this bible has

[0:35:09] Trustee Evans: been written what effect does this have on the term legal non-conforming not what is the term

[0:35:17] Trustee Evans: legal non-conforming we're asking what effect does this bible that we are creating how does this

[0:35:23] Trustee Evans: affect people's legal non-conforming or conforming that's what we're trying to clear here and where

[0:35:30] Trustee Evans: we we're asking for a public facing legal opinion so that people can see it and understand it

[0:35:35] Trustee Evans: because right now they have no access to anything that's gone on before and that's causing a lot of

[0:35:44] Trustee Evans: issues and a lot of confusion on our part and their part

[0:35:49] Voice 15: thank you for clarifying the difference

[0:35:51] Voice 15: to determine issue um i'm wondering what what's the end goal what what is it we're trying like

[0:36:02] Voice 15: what will we receive when we have the legal opinion what will we do with that are we trying

[0:36:11] Voice 15: to make ourselves feel more comfortable or everybody more comfortable or are we trying

[0:36:17] Voice 15: to get information that may affect our decision making of drafting the bylaw? That's my question

[0:36:23] Voice 15: around timing because if the timing is after we've already done it then it doesn't make sense to me.

[0:36:30] Voice 15: If it's just to make us all feel like we're more informed then the timing is kind of how you're

[0:36:37] Voice 15: is proposing it is that we draft the bylaw first and then get the opinion.

[0:36:42] Voice 15: So I don't know if you have any comments on that.

[0:36:45] Trustee Evans: I do.

[0:36:45] Trustee Evans: If we decide on which direction we're going to go in,

[0:36:54] Trustee Evans: then that can move forward for a legal opinion.

[0:36:57] Trustee Evans: And we should get that before public hearing and before third reading.

[0:37:03] Trustee Evans: Between first and third reading, we can still make changes.

[0:37:06] Trustee Evans: So if the legal opinion comes back and says, you know what, the way this is written is going to cause these issues, then we have the opportunity to address that.

[0:37:16] Trustee Evans: If the legal opinion comes back and says the way this is written will not cause any issues, it will be upheld in a court of law, then we're fine.

[0:37:27] Trustee Evans: So I believe we have the time. The legal opinion, I don't think, would take much more than two to three months to come through.

[0:37:33] Trustee Evans: and that's the difference between the May meeting and we've got lots of time to September so I think

[0:37:38] Trustee Evans: we have plenty of time to get the legal opinion between first reading by the time we come to the

[0:37:43] Trustee Evans: public hearing and we can ask staff if that understanding is correct.

[0:37:52] Voice 2: Yes that is correct. The LTC will have to consider looking at the project charter

[0:37:59] Voice 2: order and amending the budget to include a legal opinion. Originally it was included in the budget

[0:38:08] Voice 2: from the fiscal year 2023 to 2024. So we potentially could move that into this fiscal. I would just

[0:38:17] Voice 2: have to confirm with Regional Planning Manager Robert Kojima to see if there's sufficient funds

[0:38:23] Voice 2: there.

[0:38:28] Trustee Elliott: Okay so I think that settles that topic for now unless

[0:38:32] Voice 5: there's any other questions.

[0:38:33] Voice 5: Okay.

[0:38:34] Trustee Elliott: So let's move into the substance of the decisions that we're needing to make today.

[0:38:40] Trustee Elliott: Where

[0:38:44] Voice 5: do you want to start?

[0:38:45] Voice 5: Oh, sorry. Very large.

[0:38:52] Trustee Elliott: Okay. So do we want to go through these main points?

[0:38:57] Trustee Elliott: Are we satisfied on retaining the setback to the natural boundary of the sea,

[0:39:02] Trustee Elliott: the amendment to the height regulation, everything that's on page 11

[0:39:07] Trustee Elliott: or two of the staff reports that on our stock deal went through anything on on those pieces

[0:39:14] Trustee Elliott: sorry

[0:39:17] Trustee Evans: i do um on the agricultural side of things i'm hoping that staff can offer some clarification

[0:39:23] Trustee Evans: um i've gone through the alr and alc um with regards to the conditions of use 13 to 22

[0:39:33] Trustee Evans: I can only find two of them in there, and one of them is actually in the policy and

[0:39:38] Trustee Evans: not in the ALR or the ALC, and for a lot of these, I feel that our conditions of use that

[0:39:48] Trustee Evans: we had in here prior are more restrictive.

[0:39:51] Trustee Evans: So I'm looking to reverse my position and perhaps ask that they get reinstated.

[0:40:01] Trustee Evans: The other item that I discussed last meeting was we do have ALR properties that are less than 10 acres.

[0:40:13] Trustee Evans: Therefore, we will need to have a replica of the maximum house sizes of floor areas put in this section as well.

[0:40:25] Trustee Evans: I think that that needs to happen there.

[0:40:29] Trustee Elliott: in the in the agricultural land

[0:40:31] Trustee Evans: in the agricultural land section

[0:40:32] Trustee Elliott: yeah yeah so that's

[0:40:34] Trustee Evans: pages 29 to 31 um and if if we do do that then d and e will also have to get reverted

[0:40:46] Trustee Evans: um uh 5.5.1 d and e will have to get reverted because they're referencing 13 to 22 um

[0:40:56] Trustee Elliott: okay

[0:40:57] Trustee Elliott: slow down for the rest of us here so

[0:40:59] Trustee Evans: basically i'm i'm everything that was in the agriculture

[0:41:03] Trustee Evans: cultural area that that uh was removed i think we have to revert back to

[0:41:10] Trustee Elliott: the current like to the

[0:41:14] Trustee Elliott: current lub 22 okay and minor stockville are you clear on are you clear on all this or do we

[0:41:22] Trustee Elliott: need to clarify what we're talking about yes

[0:41:25] Voice 2: yes i'm clear that um there is um a direction to

[0:41:30] Voice 2: include those back into the draft bylaw so I'm just trying to think where I got

[0:41:39] Voice 2: those regulations from were from the Agricultural Land Commission during the

[0:41:45] Voice 2: previous project so I'm not sure why they're not the ALC is no longer

[0:41:53] Voice 2: mentioning them but I could put that information together for the staff

[0:41:58] Voice 2: staff report presenting that at the May 2nd meeting as well, if that would be helpful.

[0:42:04] Trustee Evans: That would, because like I said, I was going through both of them this week, and I couldn't

[0:42:08] Trustee Evans: find any mention of agritourism. I could find mention of accommodation, but it's a lot more

[0:42:19] Trustee Evans: relaxed than what we have in here. So like, for example, on 22, it said that

[0:42:24] Trustee Evans: that it's not to exceed 10 guests or five veterans

[0:42:27] Trustee Evans: and the

[0:42:28] Trustee Evans: ALR states 10 sleeping units

[0:42:30] Trustee Evans: because that could be up to a lot more people.

[0:42:33] Trustee Evans: So I'm feeling that these items 13 to 22

[0:42:38] Trustee Evans: that we have in our, that we've had in our bylaw,

[0:42:42] Trustee Evans: we're a little bit more restrictive

[0:42:43] Trustee Evans: and I think we need to keep them.

[0:42:46] Voice 5: All right, do we have any other questions?

[0:42:51] Voice 5: Yeah, I just

[0:42:52] Voice 15: want to hear more about

[0:42:53] Voice 15: Why do you feel that we need that?

[0:42:56] Voice 15: What concerns are, what is it we're trying to accomplish

[0:43:00] Voice 15: by restricting it further than the ALC does?

[0:43:06] Trustee Evans: Because of how we use our land here,

[0:43:09] Trustee Evans: we are allowed to have them more restrictive.

[0:43:12] Trustee Evans: If we take all of this out, I couldn't find it in the ALR.

[0:43:18] Trustee Evans: So there's only a couple of things that I could find in there

[0:43:21] Trustee Evans: that that were mentioned such as um agritourism accommodation was not being used for more than

[0:43:26] Trustee Evans: 180 days in a calendar year i couldn't find that um the maximum number of guests if we have 10

[0:43:34] Trustee Evans: sleeping units per property that's a lot of water use that is a lot of resource use that is a lot of

[0:43:42] Trustee Evans: land buildings etc etc limiting it to 10 gas or five veterans is a lot more restrictive

[0:43:51] Trustee Evans: than the current ALR permits so I'm I'm I'm I'm taking a different look at this and how and why

[0:44:03] Trustee Evans: it got put in here in the first place and I am I don't want to go down and questioning this

[0:44:11] Trustee Evans: this as to the reasoning I think it's reasonable so I'm I'm I'm retracting my position of just

[0:44:21] Trustee Evans: going with the ALR restrictions and you know going to the Immortal protection for South Pendleton

[0:44:27] Trustee Evans: okay

[0:44:28] Voice 7: and

[0:44:29] Trustee Elliott: I'm hearing that's because of concern for groundwater and increasing sorry concern for

[0:44:35] Trustee Elliott: groundwater and the potential increase of use. Thank you,

[0:44:43] Voice 2: Chair Elliott. From what I can remember

[0:44:46] Voice 2: from the previous discussions between staff and LTC, I think the previous LTC shared the same

[0:44:53] Voice 2: concern in terms of that 10 sleeping units, and that's why the LTC restricted that further.

[0:44:59] Voice 2: further um but in regards to the other conditions of use i think this is a perfect example of how

[0:45:05] Voice 2: the alc has changed some of their rules right or if they've gotten rid of some and things

[0:45:12] Voice 2: evolve even in the last year or two so um this may be a perfect example of the ltc perhaps not

[0:45:20] Voice 2: cutting and pasting from the alc and putting it into their bylaw because those could change over

[0:45:26] Voice 2: time, perhaps considering the conditions of loose use that you think that is valuable

[0:45:34] Voice 2: to restrict further. And it sounds like the number of agritourist accommodation units is one of

[0:45:42] Voice 2: those. So I can look into that more and report back to the LTC. But I think this is, again,

[0:45:49] Voice 2: a perfect example is how the ALC has changed some of their policies, regulations, and it's affected

[0:45:56] Voice 2: protected the LTC's bylaw.

[0:45:58] Voice 5: Okay.

[0:46:00] Voice 5: Okay.

[0:46:01] Voice 5: Take a moment.

[0:46:03] Trustee Evans: I was going to say, I took a drink to stop myself from choking and I choked on the drink.

[0:46:11] Voice 15: Okay.

[0:46:13] Voice 15: Yeah.

[0:46:14] Voice 15: Okay.

[0:46:14] Voice 15: So what I'm thinking is the ALC is there to protect the farm use of land so that it can

[0:46:25] Voice 15: be far and sort of you know supplies us with the values that come with that for communities to have

[0:46:31] Voice 15: their own little farms so that's their objective and that's what they're protecting and we're

[0:46:37] Voice 15: we're you know we've got our thing with water use and you know how many dwellings or how many people

[0:46:43] Voice 15: i understand that you know they're changing things uh and they may continue to change things and is

[0:46:54] Voice 15: Is that of concern to us?

[0:46:55] Voice 15: But what I'm wanting to find out more about,

[0:46:58] Voice 15: which I feel like we probably need to ask the ALC about that,

[0:47:02] Voice 15: what opportunities that they have created

[0:47:07] Voice 15: for the well-being of farmers wanting to farm land,

[0:47:11] Voice 15: are we taking away?

[0:47:12] Voice 15: Are we making it more difficult for farms to operate on our island?

[0:47:18] Voice 15: And I don't have the answer because it's pretty complex.

[0:47:20] Voice 15: Obviously, there's many things going on.

[0:47:21] Voice 15: them but couldn't we be checking with them to see if there is something that we want but it

[0:47:28] Voice 15: takes something away from them so that makes it less possible for them to

[0:47:32] Voice 15: encourage farming in the way that they're set up to do um if that's the case we have to look

[0:47:38] Voice 15: at it obviously if we can get that information and compare and look at it i would suggest that

[0:47:44] Voice 15: that we might want to look at a trade-off.

[0:47:48] Voice 15: How valuable is it for us to have farmland in our community?

[0:47:54] Voice 15: And if we say it is,

[0:47:56] Voice 15: and we feel like it's legitimately being hampered

[0:47:58] Voice 15: by our bylaws in any way,

[0:48:00] Voice 15: then perhaps we should do a trade and say,

[0:48:02] Voice 15: well, ALC, they're accepted because we value farmland.

[0:48:07] Voice 15: So that's my perspective.

[0:48:10] Trustee Evans: I'm just gonna give you a quick clarification here.

[0:48:13] Trustee Evans: the conditions of use are purely related to agritourism

[0:48:17] Trustee Evans: and their activities for tourism, not farming.

[0:48:22] Trustee Evans: So this is what I'm suggesting is the agritourism conditions of use

[0:48:28] Trustee Evans: that were in the require should be put back

[0:48:30] Trustee Evans: and which affects the other items.

[0:48:34] Trustee Evans: So I'm just going to put that to finish.

[0:48:36] Trustee Evans: Thank you.

[0:48:42] Trustee Evans: So yes, just agritourism is not impacting farming abilities.

[0:48:46] Trustee Evans: these.

[0:48:49] Voice 15: Yes, I

[0:48:50] Voice 15: thank you for

[0:48:51] Voice 15: the clarification.

[0:48:51] Voice 15: It does

[0:48:52] Voice 15: affect the

[0:48:54] Voice 15: financial

[0:48:55] Voice 15: viability

[0:48:56] Voice 15: perhaps of

[0:48:56] Voice 15: the farming

[0:48:57] Voice 15: operations.

[0:48:57] Voice 15: So you

[0:48:57] Voice 15: can farm

[0:48:59] Voice 15: this family

[0:49:00] Voice 15: sets up

[0:49:01] Voice 15: to start

[0:49:02] Voice 15: farming.

[0:49:02] Voice 15: They're able

[0:49:03] Voice 15: to do it

[0:49:04] Voice 15: not from

[0:49:04] Voice 15: selling just

[0:49:05] Voice 15: carrots or

[0:49:06] Voice 15: whatever it

[0:49:06] Voice 15: is they

[0:49:06] Voice 15: grow, but

[0:49:07] Voice 15: also from

[0:49:08] Voice 15: combining their

[0:49:08] Voice 15: operation with

[0:49:09] Voice 15: ecotourism.

[0:49:10] Voice 15: Perhaps that's

[0:49:11] Voice 15: part of their

[0:49:11] Voice 15: business plan

[0:49:12] Voice 15: and it's

[0:49:12] Voice 15: essential

[0:49:13] Voice 15: component of

[0:49:13] Voice 15: it, which

[0:49:14] Voice 15: means if

[0:49:15] Voice 15: we don't

[0:49:15] Voice 15: allow that,

[0:49:16] Voice 15: they can't

[0:49:17] Voice 15: farm it

[0:49:17] Voice 15: because we can't afford them.

[0:49:21] Trustee Evans: I understand where you're coming from with that.

[0:49:25] Trustee Evans: But at the same time, we're not on like Abbotsford

[0:49:31] Trustee Evans: where we've got easy access to a lot of resources.

[0:49:35] Trustee Evans: So we have to be careful.

[0:49:37] Trustee Evans: We can't have the same level of tourism on an agricultural farm

[0:49:46] Trustee Evans: that could be held, say, in Abbotsford.

[0:49:49] Trustee Evans: And we can't have as many buildings put out to house all of these people coming in.

[0:49:54] Trustee Evans: We can't have, and, you know, a lot of these aren't too restrictive.

[0:50:03] Trustee Evans: But like here, we've got agritourism accommodation buildings and structures must not exceed a floor area of 90 meters.

[0:50:10] Trustee Evans: Whereas in the ALC or the ALR, it's believed a certain amount, like 8% of the coverage of the property.

[0:50:19] Trustee Evans: which is a little excessive for South Panda.

[0:50:24] Trustee Evans: So again, you've got to be a little careful in how we,

[0:50:28] Trustee Evans: do we go with the ALR or do we make it a little bit more restrictive?

[0:50:34] Trustee Evans: And I'm in favour of making it a little bit more restrictive

[0:50:37] Trustee Evans: given where we live.

[0:50:41] Voice 15: Okay, yeah, we'll have to wait and see how that's drafted

[0:50:44] Voice 15: in the final draft of that, I guess, when we can evaluate it further.

[0:50:50] Voice 5: So,

[0:50:52] Trustee Elliott: question to Planner Stockdell. Do you think you could bring back some options and implications on that matter? For the May 2nd meeting, the LTC can discuss it and potentially still, you know, make amendments, you'll provide some options, we can select one of those options and then still proceed to first reading?

[0:51:15] Voice 2: Absolutely. I think that's still within the project scope. If we start to doing outreach with the Agricultural Land Commission, that starts to get out of scope to this project. And unfortunately, they're really hard to get a hold of and to get a response, which could take months.

[0:51:33] Voice 2: So I want to ensure that whatever we're doing right now keeps us on track, but there is sufficient time for me to do initial research regarding the ALC regulations with agritourism and agritourist accommodation and bring those back to the LTC.

[0:51:49] Voice 2: The question I do have through the chair to the LTC is in regards to the properties that are less than 10 acres in size, is the LTC considering retaining the maximum floor area table?

[0:52:08] Voice 2: Okay, just wanted to...

[0:52:10] Trustee Evans: That was what I was saying, yes.

[0:52:12] Trustee Evans: So basically just undo all of the removals that have been suggested before.

[0:52:19] Trustee Evans: Thank you.

[0:52:25] Trustee Elliott: great are we satisfied with that especially i think we had some good uh clear rationale for

[0:52:31] Trustee Elliott: um making the change thank you for bringing that forward and doing that research question

[0:52:36] Trustee Elliott: it's important to consideration okay so we're still on the um current uh staff recommended

[0:52:45] Trustee Elliott: uh changes that incorporated the direction given at the january 17th meeting so is there anything

[0:52:53] Trustee Elliott: Anything else? We've got recreational vehicles regulations, shipping container regulations.

[0:52:58] Trustee Elliott: We had some feedback, I will note, from community members out of scope of the project.

[0:53:04] Trustee Elliott: And so we're not adding anything in.

[0:53:07] Trustee Elliott: So I was reminded as I looked at some of the pieces, there was a few.

[0:53:14] Trustee Elliott: We should go back to this and that.

[0:53:16] Trustee Elliott: We're just sticking to what's been scoped in from the beginning.

[0:53:19] Trustee Elliott: So is there anything else?

[0:53:20] Voice 15: did you want to talk about recreational vehicles or well

[0:53:24] Trustee Elliott: are you yes i'm asking sorry i'm asking if

[0:53:28] Trustee Elliott: um yeah we're moving through these pieces so the are you in agreement with the retaining the set

[0:53:35] Trustee Elliott: log to the natural boundary of the sea as currently drafted yeah okay sounds like great

[0:53:43] Trustee Elliott: uh the amendment to the height regulation for dwellings uh to remove the clause at no point

[0:53:51] Trustee Elliott: may a dwelling or cottage exceed 9.2 meters in height i

[0:53:55] Voice 15: can't follow you sorry

[0:53:57] Trustee Elliott: we're on page 11.

[0:53:59] Voice 15: okay but you're not going down the list you're just dropping more yeah

[0:54:02] Voice 5: i'm going down the list

[0:54:15] Trustee Elliott: so amendments to the shipping container regulations by changing lot size requirements

[0:54:23] Trustee Evans: and i did note that there had been a question from the community all we were doing there were

[0:54:27] Trustee Evans: not increasing the number of shipping containers we were we were amending the lots associated with

[0:54:33] Trustee Evans: them to be more in alignment with our current lot categories that's good great

[0:54:40] Trustee Elliott: um so amendments to

[0:54:43] Trustee Elliott: recreational vehicles regulations to add clarity those changes all good um

[0:54:49] Voice 15: well uh we did receive

[0:54:55] Voice 15: comments on it, and it kind of triggered me to think more about it. And I'm just wondering

[0:55:01] Voice 15: if it's clear enough that, or if it's too broad. Like right now, you have to have a

[0:55:10] Voice 15: licensed vehicle. So if it has a vehicle, it has to be licensed. Let me see, I was paying

[0:55:19] Voice 15: insurance on it. And if, you know, like somebody was mentioning that, you know, they have two

[0:55:24] Voice 15: cars and they switch one and they use one in the winter and one in summer or something like that

[0:55:27] Voice 15: and so for six months of the year they're not using I'm not sure where they are right now but

[0:55:37] Voice 15: let me finish um so there are recreational vehicles um anyway okay forget it

[0:55:50] Trustee Evans: oh I'm sorry

[0:55:51] Trustee Evans: I didn't mean to to break your thought and the use of recreational vehicles as a dwelling doesn't say

[0:55:56] Trustee Evans: anything about uh being licensed i

[0:55:59] Voice 15: think i'm all wrong wrong spot in the agenda sorry i

[0:56:03] Trustee Elliott: think

[0:56:04] Trustee Elliott: so

[0:56:04] Voice 15: the

[0:56:08] Trustee Evans: use of recreational vehicles as a dwelling this was brought forward as um uh one section was

[0:56:17] Trustee Evans: accidentally housed underneath using a recreational vehicle as a temporary dwelling

[0:56:24] Trustee Evans: prior to construction but dwelling which meant that you could only be in a recreational vehicle

[0:56:28] Trustee Evans: for 90 days in the calendar year using it as a camping vehicle so that needs to be brought out

[0:56:34] Trustee Evans: as its own level as it's not part of the of being in use for construction of the dwelling

[0:56:43] Trustee Evans: and then also by stating that nothing in the subsection in this section prohibits the

[0:56:48] Trustee Evans: storage of recreational vehicles that are not being used as well as different items

[0:56:54] Trustee Evans: there had to be some separation of clarity between those three.

[0:56:57] Trustee Evans: They're not all interrelated to using them as temporary dwellings

[0:57:01] Trustee Evans: when you're constructing a dwelling.

[0:57:03] Trustee Evans: So it just was bringing out a little bit more clarity.

[0:57:06] Trustee Evans: But I'm happy with that,

[0:57:08] Trustee Evans: and I believe that that addressed the issue that was brought forward.

[0:57:12] Trustee Evans: Great.

[0:57:15] Trustee Elliott: So I apologize.

[0:57:18] Trustee Elliott: You are right.

[0:57:19] Trustee Elliott: We probably should have gone through the amendments,

[0:57:23] Trustee Elliott: and we could have started.

[0:57:24] Trustee Elliott: bit anyway i was going through the staff report um so amendments to revert the setback from exterior

[0:57:30] Trustee Elliott: and interior side lot lines uh so the question of 20 feet back to 10 feet six meters to three

[0:57:39] Trustee Elliott: meters there's been i would suggest probably still equal and consistent uh feedback from

[0:57:46] Trustee Elliott: community members that i've heard a few people have changed their views um many people have

[0:57:52] Trustee Elliott: stated reasons for and against um really this is going to be a decision point for trustees so where

[0:58:01] Trustee Elliott: do you sit on this

[0:58:02] Trustee Evans: one so i've had a few conversations with community members on this as

[0:58:07] Trustee Evans: well um and trying to find a solution i haven't reached one yet i'm still coming up with more

[0:58:16] Trustee Evans: problems than the changes addresses.

[0:58:22] Trustee Evans: So one of the big issues that I'm faced with is the average width of a lot.

[0:58:29] Trustee Evans: If it's 120, 125 feet, if your average footprint is 60 wide by 30 deep, if you take 40 off

[0:58:41] Trustee Evans: for the two setbacks of 20 feet each that gives you 80 feet to place a 60 foot wide property and

[0:58:52] Trustee Evans: then you have to then also house in your accessory dwellings it just makes for a very crowded

[0:59:00] Trustee Evans: property. I'm struggling with this and I haven't found a solution that would address

[0:59:08] Trustee Evans: the the desire for larger setbacks without creating unreasonable issues for people trying to

[0:59:20] Trustee Evans: build i the 10 foot setbacks is common on the islands trust it's common also in a lot of rural

[0:59:30] Trustee Evans: areas some rural areas have larger setbacks but they're normally in place a little earlier

[0:59:36] Trustee Evans: like I said I haven't found a solution I'm struggling with this I'm still trying to work

[0:59:40] Trustee Evans: my way through it I haven't I haven't found a solution yet so I'm going to stay with

[0:59:45] Trustee Evans: the 10 feet for now until I can find something that would work better okay

[0:59:55] Voice 5: um yeah

[1:00:00] Voice 15: For me, the setbacks question is one that kind of has overlapping goals that we're trying to achieve.

[1:00:09] Voice 15: One is around privacy or rural character, which is a privacy issue, I think, on that.

[1:00:16] Voice 15: And the other one is the environment.

[1:00:18] Voice 15: And we've heard comments from both points of view or from different points of view on these issues.

[1:00:26] Voice 15: Sometimes we hear that privacy is a concern when you're thinking about what a neighbor's property is doing.

[1:00:36] Voice 15: And other times we hear privacy being expressed as being affected by a property owner not being able to develop their property the way they see best.

[1:00:46] Voice 15: And those are both privacy issues.

[1:00:48] Voice 15: And they're sort of opposite side of the coin.

[1:00:51] Voice 15: So we have to try to figure that out.

[1:00:56] Voice 15: It's difficult.

[1:00:58] Voice 15: And then I think there are some environmental issues that may come into it as well, like

[1:01:05] Voice 15: the goals of protecting the environment.

[1:01:08] Voice 15: Are we hampering that or are we increasing our ability to protect the environment by

[1:01:14] Voice 15: going either way on this, like staying with the original one or two setbacks or going

[1:01:21] Voice 15: to the lower one. It's a tough one. I'm also finding it difficult to choose and to say

[1:01:39] Voice 15: here's the best thing. It's a conflicting kind of, you know, there's two sides to this,

[1:01:44] Voice 15: you know, from several aspects, angles. So I don't like being wishy-washy either.

[1:01:56] Voice 15: So, at this point, I'm leaning towards staying with the 10 feet, and that seems, in my personal view, that's the option that makes most sense to me.

[1:02:11] Voice 15: But I'm not saying that everybody else is wrong. It's a difficult issue, and we have to choose one way or the other, I feel.

[1:02:21] Trustee Evans: yeah the issue that has been sitting with me we all know everyone that's built here knows the

[1:02:27] Trustee Evans: difficulty of topography and i would like to make sure that we have a reasonable bible that permits

[1:02:35] Trustee Evans: reasonable development in an environmentally friendly way as much as possible and by

[1:02:45] Trustee Evans: by leaving it at the 10 feet it's not going to address a lot of people's concerns but it will

[1:02:53] Trustee Evans: maintain a reasonable ability for people to use their property yeah

[1:03:08] Trustee Elliott: and from my point of view this

[1:03:09] Trustee Elliott: is you know this is really concerning five or six lots that will be built and i guess i i can't

[1:03:19] Trustee Elliott: give my own personal opinion on this because i don't live in the community but i'm basing my

[1:03:24] Trustee Elliott: recommendation and you know going with the planner's recommendations which is what came

[1:03:29] Trustee Elliott: from the apc so to revert to the interior and exterior so i've got lines to 10 feet

[1:03:34] Trustee Elliott: i recognize the 20 foot setback provides um more privacy and potentially the the you know could

[1:03:43] Trustee Elliott: could force people to build smaller homes which once you know I'm supportive um but I think people

[1:03:51] Trustee Elliott: need to come to that on their own terms and it's really not going to be that much of an issue

[1:04:00] Trustee Elliott: but the bigger issue is um is um yeah I think people need to consider how they build and they

[1:04:08] Trustee Elliott: and they need to be making those decisions for themselves so um yeah i'm not uh in favor one of

[1:04:17] Trustee Elliott: the way of the other so i actually just have to say i'm going with the apc's recommendation so

[1:04:21] Trustee Elliott: that's the staff recommended option as well sorry very that is a tough one it's like really hard to

[1:04:31] Trustee Elliott: make a decision of what's going to be best for everyone and everyone's lots different and you've

[1:04:37] Trustee Elliott: all got different considerations so um it really is a bit of a thorny issue but let's keep it simple

[1:04:45] Trustee Elliott: and go with the recommendation

[1:04:46] Voice 5: of the apc and i'm happy with that but okay so

[1:04:55] Trustee Elliott: moving on to

[1:04:57] Trustee Elliott: so we've already discussed the amendments to the agricultural zone we're going to get some

[1:05:01] Trustee Elliott: recommendations from staff on that regarding agri-tourism accommodations conditions of use

[1:05:09] Voice 2: Cher, if I may

[1:05:10] Voice 2: just mention one thing.

[1:05:11] Voice 2: Yeah.

[1:05:12] Voice 2: Hate to go back to an item on the agenda or on the list, but in terms of recreational vehicles, I'm not sure if the LTC has the regulation subsection 3.10.3 in front of them, but I'll read it out.

[1:05:31] Voice 2: I just have a question for the LTC. This is in regards to using a recreational vehicle for

[1:05:37] Voice 2: temporary camping. And it states, where a recreational vehicle is used for temporary

[1:05:44] Voice 2: camping, occupancy of a recreational vehicle must not exceed 90 days in a calendar year.

[1:05:53] Voice 2: And I unfortunately wasn't involved in this discussion when this regulation was drafted

[1:05:59] Voice 2: in many years ago but I wouldn't assuming the intention of temporary camping is to allow you

[1:06:05] Voice 2: know if you have grandchildren coming over and they want to stay in the camp or for a few nights

[1:06:10] Voice 2: or you have guests or so forth or you decide to actually you know stay in the recreational vehicle

[1:06:16] Voice 2: while you have guests in your house or your cottage I'm assuming that it's really for

[1:06:21] Voice 2: non-commercial camping and I just want to make sure that perhaps we add that term in there

[1:06:27] Voice 2: it's not to allow commercial camping it's not to allow property owners to rent their recreational

[1:06:33] Voice 2: vehicles out in the summer for commercial camping so if the ltc would like we don't need a motion

[1:06:42] Voice 2: but as long as it's in the minutes for staff to add the term non-commercial before the word

[1:06:50] Voice 2: camping so it'd be temporary non-commercial camping for that regulation i

[1:07:00] Trustee Evans: think at this point

[1:07:01] Trustee Evans: And I would like to have a conversation with community people making that change.

[1:07:04] Trustee Evans: I appreciate staff's recommendation on it, but this is not something that the LTC has

[1:07:09] Trustee Evans: considered yet.

[1:07:10] Trustee Evans: And I would not like to make a rushed choice there.

[1:07:16] Voice 15: Yeah, that makes sense to me too.

[1:07:18] Voice 15: We haven't talked about it so far.

[1:07:26] Trustee Elliott: So how do we have that conversation with community?

[1:07:30] Trustee Elliott: Do we not need to have a draft bylaw and then community can give their input on it?

[1:07:35] Trustee Elliott: Or do you want to do an informal process in which you go and talk to people?

[1:07:39] Trustee Elliott: And then we can give direction to staff

[1:07:41] Trustee Elliott: because that's going to,

[1:07:42] Trustee Evans: again, push our timeline back.

[1:07:44] Trustee Evans: I'm suggesting leaving it right now.

[1:07:46] Trustee Evans: This is not something the LTC brought forward.

[1:07:47] Trustee Evans: It hasn't come from community.

[1:07:49] Trustee Evans: So I appreciate staff wanting to make that change,

[1:07:52] Trustee Evans: but it hasn't come from the community.

[1:07:54] Trustee Evans: It has not been raised as an issue to the LTC.

[1:07:56] Trustee Evans: The LTC has not brought this forward.

[1:07:58] Trustee Evans: I would rather not at this point.

[1:08:02] Trustee Evans: So not address it.

[1:08:03] Trustee Evans: Not address it.

[1:08:04] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[1:08:04] Trustee Evans: Thank you.

[1:08:05] Trustee Evans: Sorry, I was not clear on that.

[1:08:07] Trustee Evans: That's great.

[1:08:08] Voice 8: Okay.

[1:08:11] Trustee Evans: I was going to say, if this is of concern to the community and they want to raise it

[1:08:16] Trustee Evans: for us, then we will consider it, but we'll leave it as is.

[1:08:20] Trustee Evans: Thank you.

[1:08:25] Trustee Elliott: Great.

[1:08:25] Trustee Elliott: So moving further, staff further amended the draft by-law to include the following.

[1:08:30] Trustee Elliott: This is by direction from the February 14th meeting.

[1:08:35] Trustee Elliott: I won't go through the one by one, is there anything that you want to address there?

[1:08:41] Trustee Evans: yeah this was something that was raised in a correspondence deleting the basement floor

[1:08:47] Trustee Evans: area definition we deleted that because there was no mention in the bylaw of what

[1:08:52] Trustee Evans: uh basement floor area is being used for therefore it was a superfluous definition

[1:08:57] Trustee Evans: it can be brought back later should we have anything in our bylaw that has the basement

[1:09:03] Trustee Evans: in the area.

[1:09:07] Trustee Elliott: The people can you do that.

[1:09:13] Voice 15: I'm just not sure if this is the right thing to do, but it's

[1:09:18] Voice 15: just one of them is that we're going to be able to not use as

[1:09:23] Voice 15: a building, nothing in this section, but it was the storage

[1:09:27] Voice 15: or recreational vehicles are not being used as dwellings. So I

[1:09:32] Voice 15: I believe somewhere it says that a vehicle, a trailer or a vehicle must be licensed. It can't be stored if it's not licensed.

[1:09:45] Voice 15: It's more under the derelict vehicles section.

[1:09:57] Trustee Evans: So there's nothing in user recreational vehicles that says anything about licensing.

[1:10:03] Trustee Evans: thing is under derelict vehicles and the item that was removed was motor vehicle number place

[1:10:09] Trustee Evans: and the current license year decal which is no longer supported by icbc if we left that in there

[1:10:17] Trustee Evans: then every vehicle would be in reach of the spiral therefore that the bad line it needs to be removed

[1:10:27] Trustee Evans: for being as nice as you see no longer does this yeah

[1:10:30] Voice 15: and i love another different issue i guess

[1:10:34] Voice 15: i'm going to get to that but the way that this is stated about here is that nothing nothing

[1:10:39] Voice 15: prohibits it well right now something prohibits it until we change it

[1:10:44] Voice 5: it's

[1:10:45] Voice 15: a vehicle that's not

[1:10:47] Voice 15: licensed there's

[1:10:51] Trustee Evans: nothing in here that prohibits the storage of recreational vehicles that are

[1:10:54] Trustee Evans: not being used as dwellings. There's nothing in this bylaw that says it has to be licensed.

[1:11:04] Trustee Evans: Okay, I'll point that out later.

[1:11:07] Trustee Evans: If I'm misreading this please, like it's right here, can you help me? That's derelict vehicles,

[1:11:15] Trustee Evans: that's not recreational vehicles.

[1:11:18] Voice 15: But there's a fine line between a derelict vehicle and a recreational vehicle. Some people

[1:11:27] Voice 15: So what if somebody has a camper or something that has sat in their property for 10 years

[1:11:34] Voice 15: and it's growing moss on the roof?

[1:11:37] Voice 15: Who's to say it's not derelict?

[1:11:38] Voice 15: Who's to say it is derelict?

[1:11:40] Voice 15: We got some clarity on that.

[1:11:42] Voice 15: And right now, it seems like whether or not it's licensed is sort of the approval point.

[1:11:49] Trustee Evans: It says right here, an unlicensed motor vehicle.

[1:11:53] Trustee Evans: a recreational vehicle could be a trailer or a fifth wheel or something that does not have to

[1:11:58] Trustee Evans: be licensed it's not motorized or it's only motorized to vehicles

[1:12:06] Trustee Evans: you can tell

[1:12:11] Trustee Elliott: you from experience that the line between recreational vehicles and dwellings can

[1:12:15] Trustee Elliott: It can be blurry, so it's a tricky area for sure, but

[1:12:22] Voice 5: I get your point.

[1:12:26] Trustee Elliott: Is there anything else there, or can we move to the total and maximum floor area discussion?

[1:12:36] Trustee Elliott: That's where we actually do need to make decisions today.

[1:12:39] Trustee Elliott: Good.

[1:12:40] Trustee Elliott: So you both presented some great, thoughtful approaches to this, and yours came in last

[1:12:50] Trustee Elliott: night, Trustee Evans, and yours a day earlier, Trustee Fultz.

[1:12:54] Trustee Elliott: Why don't you take us through your reasoning of rationale, what you've heard from the

[1:13:01] Trustee Elliott: community, and if you can, where you're landing, what issue?

[1:13:10] Voice 15: Okay.

[1:13:11] Voice 15: Yeah.

[1:13:11] Voice 15: Yeah, so there are some of these sheets, some are not colored because I don't want them to be colored.

[1:13:19] Voice 15: But so I was in discussions over the time with people.

[1:13:27] Voice 15: I realized how difficult it is to hold in your head all the four different categories,

[1:13:34] Voice 15: five different categories, lot sizes.

[1:13:36] Voice 15: And then, you know, we have now two bylaws that we have, and then a draft bylaw.

[1:13:47] Voice 15: And I was wondering how we've been talking about, you know, I've heard a lot of people say in us talking about we probably end up with a compromise.

[1:13:59] Voice 15: You know, this is the situation where we need to look at compromising.

[1:14:01] Voice 15: and I think that's kind of where I'm at too

[1:14:05] Voice 15: is that we can't do this by just being black or white

[1:14:07] Voice 15: yes or no

[1:14:08] Voice 15: and so I drew this up using a spreadsheet

[1:14:13] Voice 15: to see what the progression has been up till now

[1:14:19] Voice 15: and what we're considering moving forward

[1:14:23] Voice 15: and when we have a difficult issue

[1:14:26] Voice 15: where we're split somewhere close to the center

[1:14:32] Voice 15: And a lot of people have strong feelings on one side,

[1:14:35] Voice 15: or a lot of people have strong feelings on the other side.

[1:14:38] Voice 15: I think a compromise is a natural way that you deal with that.

[1:14:43] Voice 15: But also, I want to make sure we do look at that everything makes sense.

[1:14:50] Voice 15: Like, if there's a lot of people who want one thing,

[1:14:53] Voice 15: but it doesn't make sense and it can't be defended,

[1:14:55] Voice 15: there's no rationale for it that kind of holds up.

[1:14:58] Voice 15: I think it shouldn't carry the same weight

[1:15:00] Voice 15: as a really solid rationale for an argument.

[1:15:04] Voice 15: We may consider even a little bit, if a lot of people have a feeling about something but no real rationale for it, I think that should weigh something, but not as much.

[1:15:17] Voice 15: So when I looked at this concept of meeting in the middle, so to speak, or a compromise,

[1:15:26] Voice 15: compromise. I noticed that on the green column, which is the one, two, three, four, fifth

[1:15:32] Voice 15: column on the one that has on this page, this side of the page, and I just went with feet

[1:15:40] Voice 15: because it got too complicated. I did it with all the people on the other side, but just

[1:15:48] Voice 15: to keep it a little simpler, so don't get buried in numbers. The way it shaped out for

[1:15:54] Voice 15: for the draft 129 compromise isn't meeting halfway.

[1:16:01] Voice 15: It's meeting less than halfway for, you know,

[1:16:04] Voice 15: it's favoring the 122 bylaw more.

[1:16:09] Voice 15: Like if we go with that proposal,

[1:16:12] Voice 15: we would be favoring those who favor the current bylaw

[1:16:18] Voice 15: more so than the people who want to see a change.

[1:16:21] Voice 15: So I just wanted to see that and it was interesting to me and so then I did what I call a full

[1:16:27] Voice 15: compromise column where I split it down the middle for each lot size and what I noticed

[1:16:34] Voice 15: there is that sometimes it's easier to look at the bar graph at the bottom of the page

[1:16:39] Voice 15: And you can see the first column, the blue, is 114, and then the middle column is 122,

[1:16:49] Voice 15: and then the next column is the draft 129.

[1:16:58] Voice 15: So you see that as the lot size increases, the compromise is less and less equal.

[1:17:07] Voice 15: And so is that something we're happy with, or do we want to look at that and address that?

[1:17:15] Voice 15: And so, you know, several kind of thoughts came to me when I when I noticed all of this is where the compromise that we're talking about right now is from from the perspective of wanting to see a return to 114.

[1:17:36] Voice 15: or it's a very generous compromise

[1:17:38] Voice 15: to the other perspective, right?

[1:17:41] Voice 15: It's not midway.

[1:17:43] Voice 15: And it gets more so the larger the lot.

[1:17:47] Voice 15: And so I suppose it brings a question

[1:17:52] Voice 15: if we could consider replacing the draft in 129

[1:17:56] Voice 15: with the full compromise,

[1:17:58] Voice 15: that's one way to kind of move here,

[1:18:00] Voice 15: or we can just use this as information

[1:18:08] Voice 15: But I am aware that it's a compromise, but it's in a way the people who favor going back

[1:18:19] Voice 15: to 114 on the size, it's not asking for a time, it's a smaller move in the direction

[1:18:28] Voice 15: of getting what they want.

[1:18:31] Voice 15: Could I ask a point of clarification

[1:18:33] Voice 13: on the graph?

[1:18:34] Voice 13: Absolutely.

[1:18:35] Trustee Elliott: sure i'll allow that

[1:18:36] Voice 13: okay it's a on the where i think that we're talking about these grounds at

[1:18:40] Voice 13: the bottom uh there are uh five sets of triplets i understand what each member of the triplet is

[1:18:47] Voice 13: but i don't know which each triplet is oh

[1:18:50] Voice 15: the first one

[1:18:52] Voice 13: is what the second one is yeah yeah

[1:18:54] Voice 15: sorry it is uh the lock areas so the first the top lock area on the spreadsheet above it is

[1:19:03] Voice 15: is like two and then so the next one is four and six and eight and ten so like if you if you count

[1:19:12] Voice 15: down here this column you count that same that way like one two three four five one two three

[1:19:22] Voice 13: four five okay i understand that but the first triplet refers to what is that the one one four

[1:19:30] Voice 13: Or is it the compromise?

[1:19:31] Voice 13: Is it the, like this one right here?

[1:19:36] Voice 13: What is this triplet referring to?

[1:19:38] Voice 13: Okay, the first bar is what we call-

[1:19:41] Voice 13: Not the bars, no, the triplets.

[1:19:42] Voice 13: There are three bars.

[1:19:43] Voice 13: This is a graph, this is a graph,

[1:19:45] Voice 13: this is a graph, this is a graph, this is a graph.

[1:19:47] Voice 13: What is this graph?

[1:19:48] Voice 13: What is this graph?

[1:19:50] Voice 15: The first one refers to less than a 0.4 hectares.

[1:19:55] Voice 15: And the

[1:19:58] Voice 13: second one, is it level?

[1:20:01] Trustee Evans: So the first triplet will be starting with original 114, then you can see down here you've

[1:20:12] Trustee Evans: got the...

[1:20:13] Trustee Evans: Yes,

[1:20:14] Voice 13: I understand that the legend down below, there's just no title to the triplets, whether

[1:20:19] Voice 13: it's the compromise, whether it's the original 114, all

[1:20:22] Voice 15: three, the first bar, the first bar

[1:20:26] Voice 15: The first bar is 104. The second bar is 122. The third bar is the draft.

[1:20:32] Trustee Elliott: In each of the triplets?

[1:20:35] Voice 13: Yeah, I just don't understand what each triplet refers to. There's no title on it.

[1:20:40] Trustee Elliott: The long area of the line.

[1:20:42] Voice 13: The

[1:20:43] Trustee Elliott: look above the table, one acre, the first grouping refers to lots of one acre.

[1:20:49] Trustee Elliott: her 30 2800 square feet and

[1:20:52] Voice 13: the second one is the uh okay so yeah this refers to that

[1:20:59] Voice 13: i'm fairly

[1:21:00] Voice 15: unfair when it comes to spreadsheets for bar graphs more

[1:21:05] Trustee Elliott: than i could have done

[1:21:07] Trustee Elliott: i do not mouth

[1:21:11] Trustee Elliott: okay that's a great um that's a great way of working through the partner

[1:21:16] Voice 15: provide

[1:21:17] Trustee Elliott: you some options and

[1:21:18] Voice 15: while we're on if you look at the other side

[1:21:22] Voice 15: where all the information is there for all of them and the percent increase or decrease is also

[1:21:28] Voice 15: the problem for that what i noted and i have to call

[1:21:33] Voice 15: the from 114 for the total floor area for the whole lot we it was 20 000 square feet

[1:21:46] Voice 15: and then it jumped down to 15,000 and now it remains in the draft at 15,000 so that's a 25%

[1:21:57] Voice 15: decrease and I can't remember the conversations around that or what what happens.

[1:22:03] Voice 10: I have the same question at the last meeting and it was confirmed that that was a change made by

[1:22:08] Voice 10: the previous trustees.

[1:22:11] Voice 15: So should we include that in our deliberations? We

[1:22:15] Trustee Elliott: do need to

[1:22:17] Trustee Elliott: make a decision yeah sorry um yes i think we will have to make a decision on the total

[1:22:26] Trustee Elliott: floor area of all dwellings that's at the bottom of page 13 so the ltc needs to first consider

[1:22:34] Trustee Elliott: you know we need to settle this question of maximum house sizes on each lot how that

[1:22:39] Trustee Elliott: information is to be presented and then we need to consider if the total floor area of all buildings

[1:22:45] Trustee Elliott: should be reverted to prior to adoption of bylaw number 1.2 and then will remain as it currently

[1:22:51] Trustee Elliott: exists in the land use bylaw that's the question but let's settle the lot size uh

[1:22:59] Trustee Evans: maximums first

[1:23:02] Trustee Evans: and i was just going to say this was not something that was

[1:23:08] Trustee Evans: forward for our discussion so i'm happy to leave it the way that it is

[1:23:15] Voice 2: yes thank you chair Elliott uh it looks like um that trustee Falk you provided a copy of the that

[1:23:23] Voice 2: chart to community members there in the hall is that right okay great so what I did quickly do

[1:23:29] Voice 2: was I actually posted it to the project's web page for those people who are currently live streaming

[1:23:35] Voice 2: and would like to see a copy of that if you go to the project's web page it's under folder number

[1:23:42] Voice 2: five community engagement and it has the date of yesterday when trustee Falk sent it in so it's

[1:23:50] Voice 2: under folder five community engagement you should find it there wow

[1:23:56] Trustee Elliott: all I can say is thank you

[1:23:57] Trustee Elliott: technology is working for us and our planner is brilliant okay

[1:24:02] Voice 5: trustee so

[1:24:05] Trustee Elliott: So,

[1:24:06] Voice 5: thank

[1:24:08] Trustee Evans: you for that. Later on, I will get into a suggestion for how this can be captured.

[1:24:19] Trustee Evans: Right now, I'd just like to focus the discussion on the maximum floor area. I am happy to stick

[1:24:28] Trustee Evans: stick with the APC recommendation of increasing it by 500 square feet.

[1:24:35] Trustee Evans: I appreciate the effort that Professor Belk has gone through,

[1:24:39] Trustee Evans: and it was very interesting information,

[1:24:41] Trustee Evans: but that, again, is not something that this community has had a chance to discuss,

[1:24:46] Trustee Evans: whereas the increase of the 500 square feet,

[1:24:48] Trustee Evans: they've seen it through the APC,

[1:24:50] Trustee Evans: they've seen it when we've had these discussions here.

[1:24:52] Trustee Evans: I am reluctant to, at this stage, open up that box and start working through new proposed

[1:25:06] Trustee Evans: sizes.

[1:25:07] Trustee Evans: So for me, I'm happy to stick with the APC suggestion, and I would like to do a variant

[1:25:17] Trustee Evans: on option three, but I'd like to combine, instead of having two tables, I'd like to

[1:25:22] Trustee Evans: combine the information into a single table and I can get to that in a little bit but right now I

[1:25:27] Trustee Evans: think let's just stick to the conversation of what floor maximum floor size should it be

[1:25:37] Trustee Elliott: yeah and well I support

[1:25:39] Trustee Elliott: your mapping and I think it's it was a great example of trying to figure

[1:25:43] Trustee Elliott: out where does this fall in relative to the changes that was super helpful um I'm still

[1:25:52] Trustee Elliott: favoring smaller house sizes but the apc brought forward that recommendation most of the community

[1:25:59] Trustee Elliott: seems happy with the addition of 500 square feet to all the lots and i'm happy to go with that as

[1:26:07] Trustee Elliott: a compromise um and it's it i think your presentation does offer some options and

[1:26:15] Trustee Elliott: things to think about that um i do think it might make it um

[1:26:25] Trustee Elliott: i think the rationale to explain why the extra 500 meters is easier to understand for future

[1:26:32] Trustee Elliott: people they're reading the land use file i want to go back into the minutes why was it decided

[1:26:37] Trustee Elliott: this way the apc came back with this as sort of a mid-range compromise kind of calculating the

[1:26:43] Trustee Elliott: the total square footage and then sort of evenly dividing it in half isn't quite as easy to grasp,

[1:26:52] Trustee Elliott: I think it would lead to more questions. So I think for the sake of clarity and simplicity

[1:26:59] Trustee Elliott: that's where I would sit

[1:27:01] Voice 5: on that one.

[1:27:14] Trustee Elliott: We're trying to decide the floor area maximums for each lot, and so I'm wanting

[1:27:19] Trustee Elliott: to hear where

[1:27:21] Trustee Elliott: the LTC needs to give direction to staff of basically what that number is going to be.

[1:27:25] Trustee Elliott: Right.

[1:27:28] Voice 5: Yeah. I

[1:27:39] Voice 15: personally don't care whether you have larger or smaller houses by itself.

[1:27:47] Voice 15: I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. It's not like I'm rooting for one going one way or the other here.

[1:27:54] Voice 15: But it needs to make sense to me. It needs to be consistent.

[1:27:59] Voice 15: and I think it has to have a rationale.

[1:28:02] Voice 15: And right now we have done a lot of consultation.

[1:28:07] Voice 15: We had the APC, which by the way,

[1:28:11] Voice 15: was not appointed by the LTC.

[1:28:16] Voice 15: We asked for volunteers, people put their names forward.

[1:28:20] Voice 15: And we just simply said,

[1:28:22] Voice 15: the list of people that put their names forward

[1:28:24] Voice 15: seems like a good list, let's go with it.

[1:28:27] Voice 15: So we didn't appoint, we didn't control anything in the state.

[1:28:30] Voice 15: Sorry, we can't,

[1:28:31] Trustee Elliott: that's in camera's discussion, so we can't discuss that in an open meeting, the appointment of APC members.

[1:28:37] Voice 15: Yeah, I haven't said anything about that, that's not.

[1:28:41] Trustee Elliott: Even the number of applicants, or how we decided, it's

[1:28:44] Voice 15: not my fault.

[1:28:47] Voice 15: So that is maybe not a perfect process with the APC, but it's the process that we've got, and that's the best thing that we've got happening right now.

[1:28:56] Voice 15: And adding that to our community meetings that we all had before and all the discussion, all the letters that we've received, all of that together, you know, as part of our process here, I do put a lot of weight on the APC's recommendation.

[1:29:11] Voice 15: And so I will be going with their recommendation on house size.

[1:29:29] Trustee Elliott: staff does that provide enough direction to you all three seem to have landed in that same place

[1:29:34] Trustee Elliott: so that's great yeah

[1:29:37] Voice 1: you're nodding okay awesome

[1:29:39] Trustee Elliott: okay so let's talk about a presentation of the

[1:29:45] Trustee Elliott: those house size maximums and how it could be presented for the most clarity is the clause

[1:29:52] Trustee Elliott: that was included in bylaw 122.

[1:29:55] Trustee Elliott: I think we've all agreed that that's,

[1:29:57] Trustee Elliott: you know, maybe it was clear, but.

[1:30:00] Trustee Elliott: probably tables are going to be more helpful. So what kind of table, and you've presented an idea

[1:30:04] Trustee Elliott: that is on the website. Thank you, Planner Stockdale. So those who are listening online

[1:30:10] Trustee Elliott: can also go to that folder, community engagement, where Trustee Evans, oh, sorry, you didn't put

[1:30:18] Trustee Elliott: that in there yet. Could

[1:30:19] Voice 2: you put that on? Doing that right now. Yeah, thank you.

[1:30:24] Trustee Evans: So I apologize, I'm not as efficient as Trustee Belk was.

[1:30:30] Trustee Evans: I spent late last night brainstorming a solution that would combine how we present.

[1:30:42] Trustee Evans: I'm going to maybe ask, maybe take a five or ten minute break while I write it on the whiteboard, if that would be okay.

[1:30:49] Trustee Evans: Okay.

[1:30:50] Trustee Elliott: Yeah. So let's recess for 10 minutes. It's 1135. We want to enjoy some sunshine

[1:30:59] Trustee Elliott: and Trustee Evans is going to put something on her. Happy flip chart.

[1:31:04] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[1:45:36] Voice 5: Okay, so

[1:45:39] Trustee Elliott: thank you everyone. I heard some good conversations happening, and so we'll continue on with our discussion of the presentation of how total floor area can be presented in the Land Use By-law to deal with the issue of conformity at the time of the land use by-law.

[1:46:06] Trustee Elliott: use bylaw in in um force at the time yeah

[1:46:13] Voice 5: over to you i'm trying to use words and then it works

[1:46:17] Trustee Evans: as a commercial just fyi which they've been shut on both ways and i'm in agony

[1:46:21] Trustee Evans: so

[1:46:22] Voice 8: writing

[1:46:24] Trustee Evans: was fun um yeah so so my thoughts here which i try to articulate at previous

[1:46:32] Trustee Evans: meetings and failed miserably because it's conceptual and not in front of you so i've

[1:46:38] Trustee Evans: written it out here. What I'm trying to do here is present a single table in a single section

[1:46:46] Trustee Evans: of the bylaw that addresses what a property owner can do and what the maximums would be

[1:46:56] Trustee Evans: given the two scenarios. So the wording as I've written it out there is the maximum floor area

[1:47:02] Trustee Evans: per lot will be will be determined by the greater of either a the maximum floor area is presented

[1:47:11] Trustee Evans: in table in column c or b for a lot that contains a legal dwelling constructed prior to september

[1:47:19] Trustee Evans: 15 2022 a replacement dwelling may be constructed or the existing dwelling reconstructed or altered

[1:47:27] Trustee Evans: provided the floor area of the replacement reconstructed or altered dwelling does not

[1:47:32] Trustee Evans: exceed the full area of the dwelling on the lot on September 15th 2022 and is no greater than column

[1:47:41] Trustee Evans: d so for example if you have a property that has no dwelling on it or let's say you have a

[1:47:51] Trustee Evans: cottage that's 1500 square feet or a small house of 1500 square feet then um it would be column

[1:48:03] Trustee Evans: column C, because if you were to reconstruct or rebuild the existing house, it'd be 1,500

[1:48:12] Trustee Evans: square feet, or you could go to the greater, which would be column C.

[1:48:21] Trustee Evans: If you, yeah, and rather than having two tables side by side with repetitious information,

[1:48:31] Trustee Evans: I felt it was easier to just put it all into a single table.

[1:48:38] Trustee Evans: So, I will leave it there because I don't think I need to read it aloud.

[1:48:47] Voice 5: So, comments on health or...

[1:48:51] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, I really appreciated this, actually, because I was struggling with the two tables.

[1:48:57] Trustee Elliott: And I think this makes it much more clear.

[1:48:59] Trustee Elliott: So, you've got column B, total floor area of all buildings, the next column, the dwelling,

[1:49:07] Trustee Elliott: telling that is your maximum floor area and then the following one is if you fit in this category

[1:49:14] Trustee Elliott: this building was constructed prior to September 15th 2022 that's the um that's the calculation

[1:49:21] Trustee Elliott: so I think it's really a simple and elegant solution and trust it all well I'll turn to

[1:49:31] Trustee Elliott: planner Stockdale to see if this would work. So Kim, would this be something that could fit

[1:49:41] Trustee Elliott: in the land

[1:49:42] Trustee Elliott: use bylaw? Do you see any issues with it? Do you have any thoughts?

[1:49:46] Voice 2: No major issues right now. I mean, it would just take some formatting and changing, but the intent

[1:49:53] Voice 2: is really well presented. And I think it's something that we can integrate into the draft

[1:49:58] Voice 2: bylaw. The only question I would have for the LTC is column C. Currently the copy that I have was

[1:50:08] Voice 2: from yesterday. So the numbers in columns C start from 2,500 and go up to 4,000. And is that correct

[1:50:15] Voice 2: that those are now increasing by 500?

[1:50:19] Trustee Evans: That is correct. I just put in the numbers as they

[1:50:21] Trustee Evans: currently stood because, you know, we had to have our conversation today before column C could be

[1:50:26] Trustee Evans: Yeah, great. Thank you.

[1:50:33] Voice 15: Yeah, I think this looks like it's basically just a rework of the presenters, right?

[1:50:40] Voice 15: And I was going to ask the planner if there was anything that was lost in the process here.

[1:50:47] Voice 15: But I didn't hear you say that.

[1:50:57] Voice 15: My question is around legal non-conforming.

[1:51:02] Voice 15: People have strong concerns about legal non-conforming status.

[1:51:07] Voice 15: Are they fully satisfied with this in the same way as they were with the draft that was in the original draft?

[1:51:14] Voice 15: I'm assuming it's the same.

[1:51:16] Voice 15: So maybe that would be my one thing that would interest me in knowing whether that has been addressed fully.

[1:51:22] Voice 15: so

[1:51:25] Trustee Evans: part of my reasoning for putting this all into a single section versus having a despite clause

[1:51:31] Trustee Evans: by having it um in the section that determines the maximum floor area in a single table

[1:51:40] Trustee Evans: and by removing the display clause it i think it just makes it clearer and cleaner both for

[1:51:49] Trustee Evans: the residents and for anyone who may be looking at this from other like external

[1:51:57] Trustee Evans: people that may have to look at this for whatever reasons that they need to look at it

[1:52:05] Voice 10: that's right so we

[1:52:07] Trustee Elliott: did hear feedback that a despite clause is quite common it's not a

[1:52:11] Trustee Elliott: an unknown term um it's just that i think folks are feeling more comfortable with a clear

[1:52:20] Trustee Elliott: presentation of what you know what was the lawful square footage at the time of um the bylaw so

[1:52:29] Trustee Elliott: i have no issues with this and if staff has no issues this will come back uh if we all agree

[1:52:35] Trustee Elliott: in a revised draft by law 129 for our next meeting,

[1:52:41] Trustee Elliott: and then we'll have community information.

[1:52:43] Trustee Elliott: We can have the public ask questions and talk about it.

[1:52:47] Voice 15: Yep.

[1:52:48] Voice 15: Thanks.

[1:52:49] Voice 15: Just one more question for Akshay.

[1:52:52] Voice 15: Does this mean that there is no occasion

[1:52:56] Voice 15: to use the term legally non-conforming?

[1:53:00] Voice 8: Please.

[1:53:01] Voice 5: Please.

[1:53:08] Voice 15: yes

[1:53:08] Voice 1: yes that would take out the need for that term being reiterated again

[1:53:15] Voice 1: although i'm sure it does

[1:53:18] Trustee Elliott: oh yeah this is this has been a tricky one to figure out how to get around and we've heard

[1:53:24] Trustee Elliott: from a lot of people that even though it doesn't render your building illegal it does cause that

[1:53:30] Trustee Elliott: concern there's sort of a misapprehension that you know my building is not conforming and so

[1:53:37] Trustee Elliott: this i think just provides clarity without that uh issue of saying it's potentially not legal

[1:53:43] Trustee Evans: i

[1:53:44] Voice 8: was

[1:53:45] Trustee Evans: going to ask i know that dad brought this up earlier once we got to this section

[1:53:49] Trustee Evans: whether or not we were going to um check in and make sure that people around the room felt

[1:53:55] Trustee Evans: comfortable with the solution as well rather than walking out and making a decision on it

[1:54:01] Trustee Evans: and i can't remember what you said and that's why i'm asking some apologies

[1:54:07] Trustee Elliott: i think it would be tricky to just ask the people in the room um we've just got this new information

[1:54:13] Trustee Elliott: or a new way of presenting it the planner has said it's not going to be an issue um but that

[1:54:20] Trustee Elliott: would have to come back in a new draft bylaw that would be circulated so just so everybody can have

[1:54:25] Trustee Elliott: a chance to look at it and it which was already planned for the may 2nd meeting and we can't give

[1:54:31] Trustee Elliott: first reading at that meeting so if everyone's satisfied with what is in the bylaw we don't

[1:54:36] Trustee Elliott: hear anything uh egregiously contrary um there will still be opinions i know this community by

[1:54:43] Trustee Elliott: now but uh i i think we could probably you know we're going to hear about the angry tourism we're

[1:54:51] Trustee Elliott: We're going to have some clarity on the table and remove the legal non-conforming piece.

[1:54:57] Trustee Elliott: So then the community will all see it at the same time and then have a community information

[1:55:03] Trustee Elliott: meeting.

[1:55:03] Trustee Elliott: Planner Stockville?

[1:55:05] Voice 2: Thank you.

[1:55:06] Voice 2: So I also wanted to mention that this, the May 2nd agenda will more than likely be released

[1:55:13] Voice 2: not even a week early, not even two weeks early, but perhaps two and a half weeks early

[1:55:19] Voice 2: because I will be away

[1:55:21] Voice 2: for half the latter half of April so I my intent to has have everything done

[1:55:27] Voice 2: by April 11th so I'm hoping that then we can release that agenda with at least a few weeks

[1:55:35] Voice 2: for the LTC to take a look at it and and then community members as well giving that a few weeks

[1:55:41] Voice 2: to digest this draft bylaw and I know there's been mention of a community information meeting

[1:55:46] Voice 2: So we don't have anything scheduled for May 2nd, but what we could do is ensure there's plenty of time allocated during the town hall session.

[1:55:56] Voice 2: And I will also provide options to the LTC to perhaps hold one in-person CIM during the summer months or electronic CIM, just so we have a whole meeting dedicating to reviewing the draft bylaw.

[1:56:12] Voice 2: But all those options will be presented at the May meeting.

[1:56:17] Trustee Evans: I just wanted to clarify again that even if we do have first meeting on May 2nd, it doesn't preclude for the changes from occurring.

[1:56:26] Voice 1: That's right, it does not.

[1:56:33] Voice 5: Well,

[1:56:34] Trustee Elliott: we're going to try not to go halfway.

[1:56:37] Trustee Elliott: I think we've heard from quite a few community members that we've had a lot of discussion and some are saying they'd like to move on.

[1:56:44] Trustee Elliott: So we'll try to move through the process.

[1:56:46] Trustee Elliott: So does staff have enough clarity, and have we discussed all the amendments, or is there anything outstanding?

[1:56:54] Trustee Elliott: What about the total floor area and planter stock till?

[1:56:58] Trustee Elliott: I was going to ask, would this table apply to all zoning designations except for, yeah, agriculture?

[1:57:10] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, and it would apply to agriculture.

[1:57:12] Trustee Elliott: Right.

[1:57:13] Trustee Elliott: So would this table be replicated for all the land use zones?

[1:57:17] Trustee Elliott: that's

[1:57:17] Voice 2: a really good question so it will be replicated in the rural residential zones

[1:57:22] Voice 2: the agriculture zone the nature nature oh goodness there's one forestry and there's one more and i

[1:57:31] Voice 2: just have to confirm it quickly but it would be replicated where the tables currently exist in

[1:57:36] Voice 2: bylaw number one two two okay

[1:57:38] Voice 5: all right sorry

[1:57:44] Voice 2: it's the natural resource zone

[1:57:52] Voice 2: so

[1:57:57] Trustee Elliott: let's move to these statutory requirements if there's no further discussion on amendments

[1:58:06] Voice 15: the attachment where is that oh

[1:58:10] Voice 5: thank you yeah i

[1:58:15] Trustee Evans: think um with us going with option

[1:58:18] Trustee Evans: section three which was recommended by the apc the attached or non-attached garage issue

[1:58:24] Trustee Evans: um the the reason why the apc had recommended increasing it by 500 was to allow for people

[1:58:33] Trustee Evans: to attach garage should they wish to within that 500 or it could be used for a multitude of other

[1:58:40] Trustee Evans: lifestyle requirements that may or may not be needed it was to allow a little bit more flexibility

[1:58:45] Trustee Evans: So that was already captured in there, it wasn't in addition to recommendations from the ABC.

[1:58:58] Voice 12: So

[1:59:01] Voice 15: people who choose to have an attached garage versus the people who choose to develop their property with an attached,

[1:59:15] Voice 15: Are they having the same freedoms and opportunities exactly or have they had 500 square foot dictated

[1:59:26] Voice 15: to them?

[1:59:28] Voice 15: That's my question is like, is this fair?

[1:59:31] Voice 15: Is this equal or is there a difference because of because of doing it this way, like if we

[1:59:41] Voice 15: If we don't, yeah, so if we allow for the attached growth,

[1:59:49] Voice 15: and 500 square feet is now basically given to that,

[1:59:54] Voice 15: and that means, from my understanding,

[1:59:57] Voice 15: it means that they lose that as living space.

[2:00:01] Voice 15: How is that the same as for the people who have a detached garage?

[2:00:07] Voice 15: They have 500 more square feet for living space if they wish.

[2:00:13] Voice 15: And that seems to me not fair, not correct,

[2:00:16] Voice 15: it's improper for bylaw to not make sense like that,

[2:00:20] Voice 15: unless there's a rationale for it.

[2:00:23] Voice 15: And the rationales I have seen so far,

[2:00:26] Voice 15: the list of reasons why the staff doesn't support it,

[2:00:30] Voice 15: they're not convincing to me

[2:00:33] Voice 15: or

[2:00:34] Voice 15: unfair

[2:00:35] Voice 15: I don't understand

[2:00:39] Voice 15: that quite

[2:00:40] Voice 15: so

[2:00:42] Trustee Evans: I think the way that this

[2:00:45] Trustee Evans: was presented

[2:00:47] Trustee Evans: coming to the ABC

[2:00:48] Trustee Evans: by allowing the extra 500 square feet

[2:00:50] Trustee Evans: for people that

[2:00:53] Trustee Evans: have larger families

[2:00:55] Trustee Evans: they can utilize

[2:00:56] Trustee Evans: that space for people that are working from home

[2:00:59] Trustee Evans: or wish to

[2:01:01] Trustee Evans: have or don't need a caretaker or have wheelchair accessibility issues anything like that they can

[2:01:07] Trustee Evans: use a 500 if you want a small house and you want to attach your garage then you you also have the

[2:01:13] Trustee Evans: space to do that the choice is the person who is building how they are going to use the um the

[2:01:20] Trustee Evans: maximum house size availability you can you can design your house within that um if this i think

[2:01:29] Trustee Evans: was getting to a more reasonable amount of usable square feet for most lifestyles so

[2:01:44] Trustee Evans: I would rather stick with the APC recommendation which was to simply leave a 500 to use how it's

[2:01:50] Trustee Evans: needed versus dictating how it's to be used and

[2:01:57] Trustee Elliott: actually if I could provide a comment on that

[2:01:59] Trustee Elliott: So the APC, in my reading, did not discuss attached garages being included or not.

[2:02:06] Trustee Elliott: That was actually trustee Falk.

[2:02:07] Trustee Elliott: Can you bring in that as your reason being attaching garages would mean less disturbance

[2:02:15] Trustee Elliott: to the ecosystem because you're not distributing buildings.

[2:02:18] Trustee Elliott: So to my mind, it's actually, we're sort of dictating how ecosystem protection should

[2:02:27] Trustee Elliott: should be considered, and I've been convinced that leaving it to the discretion of landowners

[2:02:37] Trustee Elliott: who come here for the natural values and are already in conversation with their neighbors,

[2:02:43] Trustee Elliott: I think that's too directive, personally.

[2:02:47] Trustee Elliott: The APC did not discuss adding attached garages.

[2:02:51] Trustee Elliott: They discussed a compromise of extra 500 square feet you brought forward

[2:02:55] Trustee Elliott: that attached garages could be

[2:02:59] Trustee Elliott: required

[2:03:00] Trustee Elliott: as an incentive

[2:03:02] Trustee Elliott: to gaining

[2:03:04] Trustee Elliott: to making them together

[2:03:06] Trustee Elliott: with the house.

[2:03:08] Trustee Elliott: So I think it's actually on you

[2:03:11] Trustee Elliott: to make that argument and to

[2:03:13] Trustee Elliott: convince us. And I'm not

[2:03:15] Trustee Elliott: so far convinced.

[2:03:20] Voice 15: Well,

[2:03:21] Voice 15: I've never said that we should be prescribing

[2:03:23] Voice 15: that somebody has to do a detached garage.

[2:03:26] Voice 15: I'm proposing that

[2:03:27] Voice 15: but we leave the property owners to decide

[2:03:30] Voice 15: if they want a detached or attached garage.

[2:03:33] Voice 15: And that should be their decision,

[2:03:35] Voice 15: and they can base that decision on the layout of a lot,

[2:03:39] Voice 15: topography, any number of reasons,

[2:03:41] Voice 15: some personal reasons for use.

[2:03:44] Voice 15: But if they choose to have a detached garage,

[2:03:49] Voice 15: they are automatically getting the opportunity

[2:03:53] Voice 15: to have a larger living dwelling by 500 square feet.

[2:04:00] Voice 15: And I'm not sure I understand why it is we're saying you have more opportunity.

[2:04:07] Voice 15: And I'm not sure why we're saying to those who perhaps they have a cliff

[2:04:11] Voice 15: and they can't do a detached garage because there's no place for it

[2:04:15] Voice 15: and they have to put the garage attached.

[2:04:19] Voice 15: Why are we taking away 500 square feet of living space from them?

[2:04:23] Voice 15: That is the unfairness of it.

[2:04:25] Voice 15: It's the inconsistency of that small reason.

[2:04:29] Voice 15: And what's the rationale?

[2:04:30] Voice 15: like if I were the rationale maybe like I can't even imagine what the rationale would be particularly

[2:04:37] Voice 15: but what is so if there is if we can't even dream of the rationale but we're going to take 500

[2:04:42] Voice 15: square feet away from somebody that we've chosen for some bizarre reason attached versus non-detached

[2:04:49] Voice 15: garage that seems flimsy and not well thought through and not what I would consider planning

[2:05:02] Voice 15: So if I can't describe any rationale for why we should remove 500 feet of living space

[2:05:09] Voice 15: because you have a garage detached, I can't support that.

[2:05:15] Voice 15: Like I want to make sure I'm saying the same thing, understanding the same thing.

[2:05:20] Voice 15: Yeah. So

[2:05:26] Trustee Elliott: I guess my point was that your rationale is to ensure that residents can retain the full scope of the living space that they are afforded and not be penalized.

[2:05:41] Trustee Elliott: I think that was your turn last time, by having an attached garage.

[2:05:47] Trustee Elliott: I think the argument of ecosystem protection, if that's, like you seem to be arguing for

[2:05:55] Trustee Elliott: two points, the maximum flexibility for the landowner, but also the least disturbance

[2:05:59] Trustee Elliott: for the ecosystem.

[2:06:00] Trustee Elliott: And those two are not necessarily going to be compatible or satisfiable in every circumstance.

[2:06:06] Trustee Elliott: It will be up to the landowner to decide what is the best way to protect the ecosystem and

[2:06:12] Trustee Elliott: their property based on the topography and whether they need to maximize the total floor

[2:06:17] Trustee Elliott: at the total house size for their living and I think for us to dictate that is really tricky

[2:06:23] Trustee Elliott: I think it's probably best and I've heard from landowners that attached garages tend to be a

[2:06:30] Trustee Elliott: suburban design the topography here is often very uneven and sometimes you have to place buildings

[2:06:36] Trustee Elliott: buildings where they make sense. The best argument that I heard is that a garage would

[2:06:43] Trustee Elliott: go sort of halfway up the driveway and then the houses is further up. So I think forcing

[2:06:47] Trustee Elliott: that by incentivizing and essentially making houses bigger defeats the argument. You're

[2:06:55] Trustee Elliott: arguing for a bigger house, which to me is not in favor of ecosystem protection. So I

[2:07:02] Trustee Elliott: I just can't see how you're going to satisfy both of those desires.

[2:07:09] Trustee Evans: I was going to just say, if a garage is attached to a house,

[2:07:18] Trustee Evans: you're having less impact on the environment

[2:07:20] Trustee Evans: because you're not clearing as large of an area to put a detached garage.

[2:07:26] Trustee Evans: But again, this island is primarily detached garages.

[2:07:34] Trustee Evans: if people have them some people don't some people might have a carport or some people might have

[2:07:42] Trustee Evans: like nothing so again I think this is up to the individual I don't want to be offering incentives

[2:07:49] Trustee Evans: for a larger structure if they choose to do that within the amount that has been discussed today

[2:07:59] Trustee Evans: day, I'm satisfied if they need. Yeah, I'm happy with the way that it is. It allows people

[2:08:12] Trustee Evans: flexibility and choice and a reasonable amount of maneuverability on the property to figure

[2:08:20] Trustee Evans: out where they're going to place some of these things.

[2:08:26] Voice 15: From my kind of reading and take on this, we're not providing more opportunity in the

[2:08:32] Voice 15: freedom for the landowner to choose. We're saying if you have a large family and you have lots of visitors or whatever, for whatever reason you need more living space, we're saying you can't have an attached garage because you will lose 500 square feet that you could otherwise use for living space. So we're taking away options from the landowner. So like it has to add up, right? Like we have to, it has to make sense.

[2:09:02] Voice 15: And to me, it doesn't make sense right now because we're saying that one rule for people

[2:09:07] Voice 15: with attached garages and a different rule for people with attached garages.

[2:09:10] Voice 15: And we're not providing any rationale for why that is other than maybe what we said

[2:09:15] Voice 15: suburban design doesn't carry a lot of weight for me.

[2:09:21] Voice 15: But that has to do with finishing on your house and how the facade or there's a number

[2:09:27] Voice 15: of factors that determine that.

[2:09:30] Voice 15: you can build a monster home that blends with the landscape beautifully and you can build a

[2:09:35] Voice 15: tiny cottage that's like ugly as hell right so those are other factors but i don't think that's

[2:09:42] Voice 15: enough to say attached garage versus non-attached garage makes it suburban or not suburban that's

[2:09:48] Voice 15: too simplistic to me so i just like if we pass a bylaw saying that we're going to take something

[2:09:56] Voice 15: away from you if you have a detached garage, not if you have an attached garage.

[2:10:03] Voice 15: I won't be able to defend that if that doesn't make sense.

[2:10:09] Trustee Evans: I was going to just also say this is how it has always been here.

[2:10:13] Trustee Evans: This is your house maximum, use it as you will. So we haven't changed that portion of it.

[2:10:22] Trustee Evans: But like I said, these revised house sizes should be adequate for most lifestyles.

[2:10:31] Trustee Evans: And again, if you choose to attach a garage, great.

[2:10:34] Trustee Evans: If you choose not to have a garage, great.

[2:10:36] Trustee Evans: If you choose to have a detached garage, great.

[2:10:41] Trustee Evans: That's your choice.

[2:10:43] Trustee Evans: Except you

[2:10:43] Voice 15: lose something if you make a choice.

[2:10:46] Voice 15: One of the choices, you lose something.

[2:10:50] Voice 15: but that's the

[2:10:51] Trustee Evans: way it currently is and has always been and why

[2:11:00] Voice 10: has it always been like that

[2:11:01] Voice 10: because that's the way it's always been

[2:11:10] Trustee Elliott: it's not the way it's always been let's just say before land use bylaws people built

[2:11:15] Trustee Elliott: all kinds of things um we do have to decide um i think that the point that trustee evans is trying

[2:11:24] Trustee Elliott: to make is that when total dwelling or total building caps were introduced this wasn't a

[2:11:33] Trustee Elliott: I think South Bender was the first LTC to do this this wasn't a practice in any of the other gulf

[2:11:39] Trustee Elliott: islands nobody else had this and Gabriel is only considering it right so when that was introduced

[2:11:47] Trustee Elliott: It was a restriction on the size of dwellings and all the buildings in order to protect the environment.

[2:11:56] Trustee Elliott: So the purpose at the time, which is still continued to this day, to uphold the object of the trust and minimize our impact on the environment, is to limit the sizes of the buildings.

[2:12:07] Trustee Elliott: so i think what trustee evans is saying if you are introducing this extra allowance of an attached

[2:12:15] Trustee Elliott: garage you're actually kind of going against the intent of limiting house sizes and for that you

[2:12:24] Trustee Elliott: have to present an argument to convince us because currently the nobody else in the community has

[2:12:29] Trustee Elliott: spoken that i've heard in favor of including attached garages this is not an issue other than

[2:12:35] Trustee Elliott: what you've presented and you're convinced that it matters and I respect that but you have to

[2:12:41] Trustee Elliott: convince two other people here to change the basically the structure of the the host size

[2:12:49] Trustee Elliott: maximum bylaw as it is I think that's what you're saying and I agree kind of yes

[2:12:59] Voice 5: um

[2:12:59] Trustee Evans: yeah i i think like i said by adding in the my extra 500 square feet we're allowing for

[2:13:08] Trustee Evans: i'm just repeating myself you're you're allowing a reasonable amount for various lifestyles

[2:13:17] Trustee Evans: and you're offering a choice and i'm satisfied that there is you know choice to accommodate

[2:13:29] Trustee Evans: most lifestyles.

[2:13:30] Trustee Evans: Oh, I disagree.

[2:13:39] Voice 5: That's okay.

[2:13:40] Voice 5: You're relaxed.

[2:13:40] Voice 15: I'm not a feminist or a rat.

[2:13:42] Voice 15: Yeah.

[2:13:43] Voice 15: I mean, to me, it's not about this side of that.

[2:13:48] Voice 15: To me, it's about being responsible with drafting bylaws.

[2:13:53] Voice 15: They have to, I think they should be fair.

[2:13:56] Voice 15: I don't think there should be anybody has an option.

[2:13:59] Voice 15: If they do that, they get something more.

[2:14:02] Voice 15: we shouldn't be setting up that scenario and that's the scenario i see being set up and i

[2:14:08] Voice 15: don't think that's wise and i like we are making choices for landowners we're saying

[2:14:16] Voice 15: you can't do this if you want to utilize enough floor space living core space

[2:14:23] Voice 15: or whatever needs you have families and so on you can you have to have a detached garage that

[2:14:29] Voice 15: we're that's the dictate we're making you may not have an attached garage because if you do

[2:14:35] Voice 15: you lose the ability to have that 500 square feet of living space and so we're dictating

[2:14:42] Voice 15: to the landowners something that they have to do and that is what i object to

[2:14:49] Voice 15: and i may be the only voice and i maybe voted on vote on this one but soviet

[2:15:00] Trustee Evans: yeah i don't like it when we're not in agreement i like the fact that for most of the way through

[2:15:05] Trustee Evans: everything we've been in agreement um and i do hear what you're saying i do it's like lived in

[2:15:11] Trustee Evans: other rural communities where um and and i think a lot of areas in bc uh the garage is not included

[2:15:21] Trustee Evans: in the floor area of the living space but their bylaws are set up differently and they've got a

[2:15:26] Trustee Evans: a lot more space they've got a lot more resources they've got a lot more access to different things

[2:15:31] Trustee Evans: we're in a different position here where we have a different mandate so I think we have to apply

[2:15:44] Trustee Evans: slightly different lenses as we're drafting these files and that's what I'm trying to do here

[2:15:51] Trustee Evans: actually that's a that

[2:15:53] Trustee Elliott: is a really good point so the islands trust is not like other local

[2:15:57] Trustee Elliott: government right so the unique nature is that we must follow the object of the trust which is the

[2:16:03] Trustee Elliott: protection preservation the trust area unique amenities um and so i think that's a higher

[2:16:11] Trustee Elliott: priority than landowner um wishes to maximize their total house size if someone needs to do

[2:16:22] Trustee Elliott: that they can apply for a development variance permit but i don't think that in my view takes

[2:16:27] Trustee Elliott: It takes precedence over the protection of the ecosystems,

[2:16:32] Trustee Elliott: which in the case of this land use bylaw,

[2:16:35] Trustee Elliott: the tool being used is to limit the size of dwellings.

[2:16:39] Trustee Elliott: That's the function of all of that.

[2:16:42] Trustee Elliott: By arguing that you want to give that flexibility to the landowner,

[2:16:47] Trustee Elliott: it's kind of saying that this land use bylaw is going to favor a landowner

[2:16:54] Trustee Elliott: who wants to build a bigger house.

[2:16:56] Trustee Elliott: If they want to do that, they can have a development variance permit.

[2:16:59] Trustee Elliott: I think the land use bylaw needs to fall on the side of the function, which is limiting house sizes.

[2:17:06] Trustee Elliott: So I think we should just have a vote.

[2:17:08] Trustee Elliott: I don't want to have the last word on this if you want to.

[2:17:10] Trustee Elliott: This is your concern, but let's move to a vote so we can conclude.

[2:17:14] Trustee Elliott: Yeah,

[2:17:16] Voice 15: this is sort of an example amongst us here about the dilemma, is that we may have

[2:17:27] Voice 15: the same goals, like you stated the goals of environmental protection.

[2:17:30] Voice 15: My goals are environmental protection, that's why I'm sticking on this.

[2:17:34] Voice 15: I think that building a garage in your house makes more sense.

[2:17:40] Voice 15: Therefore, the overall size of the house, like if you have a house that's built to the

[2:17:47] Voice 15: max of the allowable size, and then you have a garage, you have more square foot than if

[2:17:56] Voice 15: you put the garage in the house because you could build up that garage to be at the base,

[2:18:00] Voice 15: you know, the floor level.

[2:18:03] Voice 15: And so there's more opportunity to be more careful with the environment, except unless

[2:18:07] Voice 15: Unless you believe the house that's just a tiny bit bigger, the overall foundation, if you believe that just a bit bigger there is actually a negative impact on the environment.

[2:18:18] Voice 15: I don't believe that.

[2:18:21] Voice 15: I don't believe that's true.

[2:18:22] Voice 15: I think a bigger impact on the environment is using less building materials and work it into the same envelope.

[2:18:27] Voice 15: So for the reasons of environmental protection, I'm proposing what I'm proposing.

[2:18:33] Voice 15: And this is the example that we're up against quite a bit, right?

[2:18:38] Voice 15: The same goal

[2:18:39] Voice 15: has a different avenue for different people

[2:18:42] Voice 15: and the avenue that we use to get to

[2:18:44] Voice 15: arrive there is an opposition of each other.

[2:18:47] Voice 15: And that's

[2:18:48] Voice 15: very difficult.

[2:18:50] Voice 15: What do you think?

[2:18:53] Voice 5: A great debate.

[2:18:56] Trustee Elliott: Well,

[2:18:58] Trustee Elliott: you definitely convinced me

[2:18:59] Trustee Elliott: that you have good reasons

[2:19:00] Trustee Elliott: for this

[2:19:03] Trustee Elliott: and I really appreciate that.

[2:19:05] Trustee Elliott: I do think we need to put it

[2:19:07] Trustee Elliott: to the community um this hasn't been i don't think i've heard some input on this um include or not

[2:19:17] Trustee Elliott: including attached garages but it's not been drafted into the bylaw in a way to give people

[2:19:22] Trustee Elliott: an opportunity to comment um so the question i guess before us is do we give direction to draft

[2:19:29] Trustee Elliott: it including or excluding garages um i think what i've heard the majority of is that the draft bylaw

[2:19:42] Trustee Elliott: as it is is fine and people wanted us to settle the question of the maximum house sizes i didn't

[2:19:49] Trustee Elliott: hear anything about attached garages i think if the bylaw is drafted it comes back may 2nd

[2:19:55] Trustee Elliott: if the community says you know what we think attached barrages should not be included in the

[2:20:02] Trustee Elliott: total floor area then we can amend it that would be the time to amend it i think we need to draft

[2:20:09] Trustee Elliott: something today that the majority of the community has had input on i hear you that you're very

[2:20:14] Trustee Elliott: strongly in favor you've got very good reasons um but they're not to me enough to amend the current

[2:20:22] Trustee Elliott: by law, we need to hear

[2:20:24] Trustee Elliott: a strong

[2:20:24] Trustee Elliott: and I think everyone's heard you, right?

[2:20:29] Trustee Elliott: I think we'll hear from community

[2:20:30] Trustee Elliott: if they support that.

[2:20:36] Voice 15: We'll get off the source

[2:20:37] Voice 15: pretty soon.

[2:20:39] Voice 8: More words.

[2:20:40] Voice 15: I just wanted to comment on your saying

[2:20:43] Voice 15: that we've agreed to everything

[2:20:45] Voice 15: and it's nice when we do that.

[2:20:47] Voice 15: I think it's nice that we

[2:20:48] Voice 15: disagree sometimes and vote

[2:20:50] Voice 15: vote differently, and I think that that shows for a healthy group or LTC.

[2:20:57] Voice 15: So I'm going to vote no, and I'm expecting you to vote, both of you, in favor of drafting

[2:21:06] Voice 15: it that way, and I'm okay with that.

[2:21:08] Voice 15: But my way of stating my position is to vote what I need to vote for.

[2:21:12] Voice 15: sure so okay

[2:21:14] Trustee Elliott: um so we had already settled on increased maximum floor area by 500 square feet

[2:21:23] Trustee Elliott: that is settled so now we're going to vote on whether attached garages will be included or not

[2:21:31] Trustee Elliott: so let's say not included in dwelling floor area i should state this very clearly

[2:21:39] Trustee Elliott: please

[2:21:39] Trustee Evans: state this very clearly the vote will be attached to garages

[2:21:49] Trustee Evans: are not included are not to be included in the maximum um volume floor area which i will vote

[2:21:56] Trustee Evans: against yes so

[2:22:01] Trustee Elliott: it's kind of the reverse of what you said exactly well if you read the staff report

[2:22:07] Trustee Elliott: it so option two that's that's what i'm coming back to so um so how about you you propose a

[2:22:14] Trustee Elliott: motion you move that and that garage does not be included in the total dwell and then we can have

[2:22:19] Trustee Elliott: a vote yeah but i thought you

[2:22:20] Voice 15: just did you could propose that one no this is your emotion also

[2:22:25] Voice 15: sort of, we don't want

[2:22:27] Voice 5: it. Okay, where's, where's the

[2:22:31] Voice 5: language? Okay.

[2:22:48] Voice 15: I'm moving from the floor area of the garage up to the maximum

[2:22:52] Voice 15: of 36 square meters or 500 square feet is not included in

[2:22:57] Voice 15: the floor area of the dwelling.

[2:23:02] Trustee Elliott: seconded by trustee evans moved and seconded by trustee evans any discussion on the motion

[2:23:09] Trustee Elliott: i think we've had a lot of discussion i'll call for the vote all those in favor

[2:23:14] Trustee Elliott: all right those opposed that is defeated um thank you so much for the discussion and i

[2:23:24] Voice 15: really

[2:23:24] Trustee Elliott: appreciate you bringing forward your reasons i was i was actually half convinced

[2:23:35] Trustee Elliott: okay thank you so much so now that we've concluded discussion on uh draft amendments to bylaw or

[2:23:44] Trustee Elliott: draft sorry rather amendments to draft bylaw 129 uh we're going to talk about statutory

[2:23:49] Trustee Elliott: requirements next steps and potential uh amendments to the charter so uh planner stock

[2:23:56] Trustee Elliott: Dr. Dill, can you take us through?

[2:23:58] Trustee Elliott: We've got a list of steps on page 14.

[2:24:01] Trustee Elliott: We're sort of at around four or maybe into five there.

[2:24:06] Voice 2: Yes, excuse me.

[2:24:08] Voice 2: So yes, the LTC at this time does not have to make any decisions

[2:24:14] Voice 2: in terms of the timeline or amending the project charter.

[2:24:18] Voice 2: I will

[2:24:19] Voice 2: bring back the project charter

[2:24:21] Voice 2: or I'll discuss any necessary budget changes at the May 2nd meeting if needed and in terms of

[2:24:30] Voice 2: the timeline you know we are on we're on track for the project and the next step is for staff

[2:24:37] Voice 2: to bring the draft bylaw to the May 2nd meeting. Number six says for LTC to give direction to

[2:24:47] Voice 2: schedule a public hearing and also a community information meeting if the ltc gives that

[2:24:53] Voice 2: direction at may 2nd it will most likely be scheduled for the september ltc meeting

[2:24:59] Voice 2: but we can have that discussion on may 2nd and i'll bring forward also more options

[2:25:07] Voice 2: for additional engagement with community members regarding the draft bylaw so no decisions have to

[2:25:16] Voice 2: to be made now but we'll have that discussion on may 2nd great um

[2:25:23] Trustee Elliott: so i have one other matter if

[2:25:25] Trustee Elliott: we could add that for discussion at our next meeting uh totally not apart from this bylaw

[2:25:31] Trustee Elliott: and it's about ltc budget um and because we didn't add it to the agenda i'm we won't talk

[2:25:41] Trustee Elliott: about it today but the way that budgeting is done for ltcs has changed to this new fiscal so some of

[2:25:47] Trustee Elliott: of us are aware of that but if you're not on planning committee you wouldn't be um and some

[2:25:53] Trustee Elliott: of us have expressed interest in going to conventions and the ltc needs to be a resolution

[2:25:58] Trustee Elliott: to that effect so we can talk about that offline but if we can add uh just a quick discussion on

[2:26:05] Trustee Elliott: um on yeah ltc meeting budget which is you know travel for chairs how many meetings we have

[2:26:13] Trustee Elliott: in person or not and that kind of thing that would be great so if there's nothing further today

[2:26:24] Voice 5: have we covered

[2:26:28] Trustee Elliott: everything do you need anything else no

[2:26:32] Voice 2: thank you that will keep me busy for the

[2:26:34] Voice 2: next week or two excellent

[2:26:35] Trustee Elliott: we'll look forward to seeing a draft by the law circulated as soon as

[2:26:40] Trustee Elliott: possible we'll try to get the minutes um from this meeting adopted and circulated sort of draft

[2:26:49] Trustee Elliott: minutes uh before the next meeting and uh with that i'll call for adjournment oh chair elliot

[2:26:57] Voice 2: if i may so we do have just a month away from the may 2nd meeting so at this point we would

[2:27:02] Voice 2: just place them on the may 2nd agenda does that sound okay yeah

[2:27:07] Trustee Elliott: thanks i didn't realize may was

[2:27:09] Trustee Elliott: around the corner.

[2:27:13] Trustee Evans: I was just going to say, because we finished a lot of that early, I don't know if we want to open the floor again for any comments from what people heard today, or to just simply

[2:27:24] Trustee Evans: adjourn. It looks like everybody is getting ready to leave, but I thought I would just ask the chair if she was willing to do that or not.

[2:27:31] Trustee Evans: or like they'd

[2:27:33] Trustee Elliott: like to say

[2:27:34] Trustee Evans: so sure

[2:27:35] Trustee Elliott: we're hearing or we're seeing signals from folks in the in the

[2:27:38] Trustee Elliott: room that a second town hall would be appreciated so let's uh open the floor uh forgive me for not

[2:27:45] Trustee Elliott: commending the agenda but we already did anyway so um and uh please uh sorry you waved your hand

[2:27:53] Trustee Elliott: but go ahead okay um just a question

[2:28:08] Voice 6: So

[2:28:11] Voice 16: my question is about the intent of this table. What I'm trying to understand is in

[2:28:21] Voice 16: column D, if I have a building on my lot today, does this say that I can build to the old

[2:28:28] Voice 16: maximum square footage? Can it be construed that way?

[2:28:34] Voice 16: that

[2:28:39] Trustee Evans: is something that we're clarifying with staff to make sure that it can't but the intent

[2:28:43] Trustee Evans: is if whichever is greater if you have an existing building on your house let's say your existing

[2:28:51] Trustee Evans: building is um uh four thousand square feet and you have a two thousand acre a two acre property

[2:29:01] Trustee Evans: so you've got a four thousand square foot house um you're you're allowed to build it up to fifty

[2:29:07] Trustee Evans: 5,600. So you can replace your 4,000 square foot house with a 4,000 square foot house.

[2:29:12] Trustee Evans: That is the greater of either. If you had a 7,000 square foot house on a two acre property,

[2:29:19] Trustee Evans: then you could build it to 5,600 square feet because that is the greater. If you had a 1,500

[2:29:27] Trustee Evans: square foot house, you could then build it to the new column C, which would be 4,000 square foot.

[2:29:36] Trustee Evans: that's the intent so we're going to staff to make sure that that intent is adequately captured and

[2:29:43] Trustee Evans: cannot be misconstrued that's the purpose of me offering this suggestion to go back to staff

[2:29:50] Trustee Evans: to make sure that that intent is properly captured

[2:29:55] Voice 16: so the follow-up question would be out of concern about creating

[2:30:00] Voice 16: two classes of properties, so one's where you already have an existing dwelling and you can,

[2:30:06] Voice 16: you're entitled in some way to build more than if you didn't have an existing dwelling. So if you

[2:30:13] Voice 16: have a, if you have a barrel lot you can build to this column, if you have had an existing dwelling

[2:30:20] Voice 16: you can build to that column. So you're, you're in, in essence you're penalizing one because they

[2:30:29] Voice 16: can build less smaller dwelling size versus one that already has an existing dwelling.

[2:30:37] Trustee Evans: So the intent and I believe this was the intent of the outgoing trustees as well was to make sure

[2:30:41] Trustee Evans: that the people that have an existing dwelling that is larger than the revised square footage

[2:30:48] Trustee Evans: can be maintained and retained in its legal capacity. So we're trying to simplify the wording

[2:30:59] Trustee Evans: and the misunderstandings and everything else that was kind of going around here by simplifying

[2:31:07] Trustee Evans: how it's presented and clarifying because the way that it was written previously if you had

[2:31:13] Trustee Evans: a 1500 square foot house you could replace it to 1500 square feet even though the new

[2:31:18] Trustee Evans: mileage that you can put a 4000 square foot house there because it said you can only build to the

[2:31:23] Trustee Evans: maximum that you currently got so if you put a 1500 you're stuck with 1500 good question

[2:31:40] Voice 5: you can go up to the chart there

[2:31:43] Voice 13: i would just like to say that listening to this rather long

[2:31:46] Voice 13: discussion on attached or detached garages i'll just full disclosure i have an attached garage

[2:31:52] Voice 13: two car garage cars never been in it

[2:31:58] Voice 13: and living right next to a house who built a very little person likes to build a very large house

[2:32:03] Voice 13: and detached their garage so they could do so.

[2:32:06] Voice 13: So I am totally philosophically on board with Begg's or trustee Falk's points

[2:32:15] Voice 13: about attached versus non-attached garages.

[2:32:19] Voice 13: But I'd like to go with the vote for a number of reasons.

[2:32:26] Voice 13: For one, not necessarily in the correct order, but first, it was recommended by the APC,

[2:32:31] Voice 13: so more minds have thought about this.

[2:32:34] Voice 13: Second, it's very simple to understand.

[2:32:37] Voice 13: It's not complicated.

[2:32:39] Voice 13: And thirdly, I know that sneaky little householders

[2:32:43] Voice 13: have the temptation to...

[2:32:48] Voice 13: Let's

[2:32:48] Trustee Elliott: not characterize community members as sound and negative light.

[2:32:51] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[2:32:52] Voice 13: All right.

[2:32:52] Voice 13: There is the potential then for householders

[2:32:57] Voice 13: or people who purchase a house after the original landowners

[2:33:01] Voice 13: to repurpose garage space.

[2:33:05] Voice 13: There's also the fact that garage space can also have a second floor above it.

[2:33:10] Voice 13: So due to that complexity and the difficulty of bylaw enforcement

[2:33:16] Voice 13: in that it would require a complaint forwarded to a bylaw enforcement officer

[2:33:23] Voice 13: to investigate this and all that,

[2:33:27] Voice 13: it's much easier with the 500 square feet is that it could be taken care of in the permitting

[2:33:32] Voice 13: process and the building inspector could give a yes or no and it would be done so this is why

[2:33:39] Voice 13: even though i totally agree the trustee fault is that for enforcement and for everything else

[2:33:46] Voice 13: i'm afraid i'm gonna have to go with the other two trustees

[2:33:50] Voice 13: please. Sorry

[2:33:54] Voice 13: about the sneaky. That was, that was, that was, that was your fellow community

[2:34:05] Voice 5: members. Go ahead. Well,

[2:34:14] Voice 9: I just wanted to thank Bertrand because this has been a really

[2:34:21] Voice 9: really big thing too. Since you started, you're already halfway through your term. And you're

[2:34:32] Voice 9: really working hard at finding a compromise between our two halves of the island, which

[2:34:38] Voice 9: we really do have some splits. And all of our people have worked really hard to make

[2:34:48] Voice 9: it work too but um i give you a lot of credit for taking all this time in your turn to care

[2:35:01] Voice 5: nice to hear positive words once in a while

[2:35:06] Voice 5: so i i

[2:35:13] Voice 14: know you're trying to compromise and and i think that's a really good thing

[2:35:18] Voice 14: And the only kind of the age-old way to express that is when you're making a deal and you come to a point, you finally say, let's split the difference.

[2:35:32] Voice 14: And you didn't split the difference.

[2:35:34] Voice 14: If you had, I could feel okay.

[2:35:38] Voice 14: And, you know, I didn't want it changed at all.

[2:35:42] Voice 14: But if we had split the difference, I could feel good about it.

[2:35:48] Voice 14: and the fact that we didn't, I don't.

[2:35:52] Voice 8: Thank you.

[2:36:01] Voice 14: This one's for you.

[2:36:04] Voice 14: I don't.

[2:36:06] Voice 14: You're attached a garage.

[2:36:10] Voice 14: Isn't that, you've got the size of all buildings

[2:36:15] Voice 14: on the property, right?

[2:36:18] Voice 14: You've got the size of the dwelling.

[2:36:20] Voice 14: So if that's, you've got a total,

[2:36:23] Voice 14: if you include your attached garage,

[2:36:28] Voice 14: that's just square footage of your house that's your living area

[2:36:32] Voice 14: you have a detached scratch which i think right now is a thousand square feet isn't it

[2:36:38] Voice 14: it's 700 i was 750 when i built mine or i would have built a thousand but yeah so

[2:36:47] Voice 14: it's also included you've got the total floor area per size of your lot right whether it's

[2:36:53] Voice 14: ground, whether it's a house. No?

[2:37:04] Voice 15: Well, I think the total average watt is bigger than the house size,

[2:37:11] Voice 15: right? So even if you build your house to the max allowable size, you've still got

[2:37:18] Voice 15: leftover room to build other buildings, like a detached

[2:37:22] Voice 14: garage. But you have the total area of

[2:37:26] Voice 14: all buildings, you have a maximum there. We have a maximum there. If

[2:37:30] Voice 15: there's no room within that

[2:37:32] Voice 15: maximum, then it's okay. But if there's no room, then we can't.

[2:37:36] Voice 14: Yeah, well that was physical, you

[2:37:38] Voice 14: know, assuming everything is flat, right? Did it answer your question?

[2:37:45] Voice 14: Sorry? Did it answer your

[2:37:46] Voice 14: question? Well, I mean, it's just, to me it was kind of redundant because you've got maximum

[2:37:53] Voice 14: maximum building area whether it's a garage or your house. So if you build your house

[2:38:01] Voice 14: to the house size, you've still got a thousand square feet for a garage. If the garage is

[2:38:09] Voice 14: in the house, that probably, which I have one in there, is probably, could be a dwelling

[2:38:17] Voice 14: size, so you've still got your maximum square footage, whether it's grads or grads.

[2:38:26] Voice 5: Thanks.

[2:38:26] Voice 14: Thank you.

[2:38:27] Voice 5: I don't know.

[2:38:29] Voice 14: Great.

[2:38:31] Voice 5: Any more comments, questions?

[2:38:35] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[2:38:37] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[2:38:38] Trustee Elliott: Go enjoy the sunshine.

[2:38:40] Trustee Elliott: I'll call for adjournment.

[2:38:41] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[2:38:41] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[2:38:43] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[2:38:43] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[2:38:44] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[2:38:44] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[2:38:45] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[2:38:46] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[2:38:47] Trustee Elliott: All right.

[2:38:47] Trustee Elliott: regular location.

South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 27, 2025 ADOPTED Page 1 of 5 
 
South Pender Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of Special Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
March 27, 2025 
Anglican Parish Hall 
4703 Canal Road, RR#1, North Pender Island, BC 
 
Members Present: Tobi Elliott, Chair 
 Dag Falck, Local Trustee 
 Kristina Evans, Local Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Kim Stockdill, Island Planner (electronic) 
 Katherine Vogt, Recorder (electronic) 
  
Others Present: There were approximately twenty-two (22) members of the public 
present 
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
Chair Elliott called the meeting to order at 10:03 a.m. 
2. TERRITORIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT 
Chair Elliott acknowledged that the meeting was being held on the territory of the Coast 
Salish First Nations. 
3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
The following additions to the agenda were presented for consideration: 
• Add Item 5: Town Hall, move other items forward 
• Add Item 7: Town Hall, move other items forward 
By general consent the agenda was approved as amended. 
 
4. MINUTES 
4.1 Local Trust Committee Meeting Minutes Dated February 14, 2025 (for Adoption) 
The following amendments to the minutes were presented for consideration: 
• On Page 1, Under Item 3, second line, after the name Elizabeth May, remove the 
phrase “regarding Southern Gulf Islands Forum “and replace with the phrase “on 
behalf of the Southern Gulf Islands Forum regarding advocacy to the Ministry of 
Transport on Bill C-33 about railway safety and marine issues 
ADOPTED 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 27, 2025 ADOPTED Page 2 of 5 
• On Page 2, Under Item 5, bullet one, second line, remove the phrase “Executive 
Committee” and replace with the phrase “Islands Trust Council” 
• On Page 2, Under Item 5, rephrase bullet 2 to state the following: “Ongoing 
participation in the Reconciliation Learning Group which will next be looking at 
cultural safety across the organization, and supporting the reconciliation Action 
Plan with initiatives and Reconciliation related activities 
• On Page 5, Bullet 12, just before the phrase “legal non-conforming,” replace the 
word “term” with the word “issue” 
• On page 4, Under Item 15.1, Bullet 2, line 2, correct the spelling of “story” to 
“storey” 
By general consent the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee meeting 
minutes of February 14, 2025 were adopted as amended. 
5. TOWN HALL 
Members of the public spoke to proposed amendments to draft Bylaw No. 129 and the 
following comments were noted: 
• The word “legal” should be removed; and the designations be referred to as simply 
conforming or non-conforming 
• Trustees should table Bylaw No. 129 so that First Reading may be given at the current 
meeting 
• The term legal non-conforming comes from the Local Government Act 
• Land Use Bylaw No.129 provides relief to the approximately 30% of properties that 
became non-conforming after Land Use Bylaw No. 122; and alleviates some residents’ 
concerns about future construction of mega-sized homes 
• Staff should provide comment on the legal non-conforming issue 
 
6. BUSINESS ITEMS 
6.1 Minor Land Use Bylaw Amendments Project - Staff Report 
Island Planner Stockdill presented the staff report, dated March 27, 2025, to update 
Trustees on recent amendments to the draft Land Use Bylaw No. 129. 
 
The Local Trust Committee (LTC) discussed the possibility of seeking a legal opinion 
on legal non-conforming status once the draft Land Use Bylaw (LUB) had been 
finalized.  
o The planner advised that the Project Charter would need to be amended to 
budget for a legal opinion 
 
The LTC reviewed the 13 recent trustee directed amendments to the draft LUB, 
noting the following: 
 
• Maximum floor area tables also need to apply to agricultural land 
• Since Agricultural Land Commission (ALC) rules seem to have become very 
relaxed, it may be a mistake to align the LUB with ALC regulations 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 27, 2025 ADOPTED Page 3 of 5 
• ALC Agritourism allowances for 10 sleeping units could strain local resources 
• The ALC works to help farmers maintain their farms financial viability by allowing 
indirect farm uses such as agritourism for increasing farm incomes 
 
In response to chair request, the planner offered to provide further research on ALC 
regulations regarding agritourism and agritourism accommodation for next meeting. 
 
• There are distinctions between the use of a recreational vehicle for storage; for 
temporary camping; for living in while constructing a building; and for renting out 
as a short-term vacation rental 
 
Island Planner Stockdill presented 3 options for total and maximum floor area 
regulations.  
 
Trustee Falck presented a spreadsheet  that showed the evolution of changes in the 
“total floor area of dwellings” and “total floor area of all buildings” through 
successive Land Use Bylaws No.114, No.122, and Draft Bylaw No. 129, noting the 
following: 
• As the lot sizes increase, the compromises between the larger Bylaw No.114 
dwelling sizes and the lower Bylaw No. 122 dwelling sizes become less equal 
• A more rational full compromise would equalise the compromise over all lot 
sizes 
• For lots greater than 10 acres, total allowable floor area for all buildings dropped 
from 20,000 square feet in Bylaw No. 114 down to 15,000 square feet in Bylaw 
No. 122; whereas there was no drop in size allowance for the other smaller lot 
sizes 
 
The Planner announced that she had just posted Trustee Falck’s document, dated 
March 26, 2025, to the Local Trust Committee website under Projects: Folder No.5: 
Community Engagement. 
 
The Chair acknowledged the need for clarity, simplicity, and rationale behind the 
square footage numbers in the tables. 
 
By general consent, the meeting was recessed at 11:35 a.m. and reconvened at 
11:45 a.m. 
 
Trustee Evans presented a self-prepared possibility for Option 3 that would combine 
two tables into a single, simpler table by creating 4 major column categories: 
1. Lot size 
2. The total floor area of all buildings may not exceed 
3. The floor area of a dwelling may not exceed 
4. Legal dwellings constructed prior to September 15, 2022, the floor 
area may not exceed 
o The Chair and Planner acknowledged that a single table provided greater 
clarity and relieved some of the public distress regarding the possibility of 
their home being labeled legal non-conforming 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 27, 2025 ADOPTED Page 4 of 5 
o The Planner confirmed that the table could be replicated for the following 
zones: rural residential, agriculture, forestry, and natural resource 
 
The Local Trust Committee discussed attached garages, which, if included in total 
maximum dwelling area in the proposed Land Use Bylaw, would reduce the 
allowable size of a dwelling, whereas a detached garage would not. The following 
comments were noted: 
• Attached garages may be more environmentally favorable by reducing scattered 
ecological footprint 
• It should be up to property owners to decide if they want an attached or 
unattached garage without penalty of losing 500 square feet of living space if 
they want an attached garage; this seems unfair, inconsistent, and unwise for 
the drafting of bylaws 
• Ecosystem protection, which was the original rationale for restricting house 
sizes, should be the priority over landowner flexibility 
• A landowner has the option to apply for a development area permit if they want 
to increase their house size 
• Including attached garages in total maximum dwelling area is how it has always 
been; it provides reasonable flexibility for landowners; and it restricts building 
sizes for the benefit of the environment 
 
SP-2025-007 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
that the South Pender Island Local Trust Committee amend draft Bylaw No. 
129 for the Minor Land Use Bylaw Amendments Project by: 
“That the floor area of the attached garage up to a maximum of 46 square 
metres or 500 square feet is not included in the floor area of a dwelling.” 
DEFEATED 
 
The Local Trust Committee discussed statutory requirements for public 
engagement with draft Bylaw No. 129. 
 
The chair requested that planning staff add, for the next May 2, 2025 agenda, 
discussion on Local Trust Committee meeting budget. 
 
7. TOWN HALL 
Members of the public questioned or commented the following: 
• If someone has an existing building, can they build to the old square footage 
permissions shown on the table presented today? 
o A Trustee responded that the intent is that whatever number is greater is 
allowable; if you have an existing building on your lot of 4000 square feet on a 2-
acre lot, you are allowed to replace the building up to 5600 square feet. If you 
have a 7000 square foot house on a 2-acre lot, you can only replace it with a 
5600 square foot house; if you have a 1500 square foot house on a 2-acre lot, 
you could only build it up to what it says in column c: 4000 square feet 

 
South Pender Local Trust Committee 
Special Business Meeting 
March 27, 2025 ADOPTED Page 5 of 5 
o The member of the public responded that this creates 2 tiers: one for those who 
had existing dwellings and those that did not, which penalizes those with bare 
lots 
• The vote to include attached garages in dwelling floor area maximums is supportable 
because the Advisory Planning Commission recommended it; and there is difficulty in 
bylaw enforcement for unauthorized uses of the garage; and Trustee Falck’s points were 
also very supportable 
• A member of the public commended Trustees for their hard work in trying to find 
compromises around divisive issues 
• The member of the public suggested that Trustees were trying to compromise; but that 
they were not “splitting the difference” on divisive issues, so it was hard to feel good 
about the outcome 
• Total lot building coverage maximums makes the detached/attached garage issue 
redundant 
8. ADJOURNMENT 
By general consent the meeting was adjourned at 12:42 p.m. 
 
 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
Tobi Elliott, Chair 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
_________________________ 
Katherine Vogt, Recorder