Islands Trust Council regular meeting, April 9, 2025

[0:00:00] Trustee Gedye: going to call the meeting to order. This is the Governance Committee of the Islands Trust

[0:00:05] Trustee Gedye: and our regular meeting of April the 9th, 2025. And I want to start with a land acknowledgement.

[0:00:14] Trustee Gedye: So I'm living and working and playing on Bowen Island, Nkwelekum, traditional territory of a

[0:00:22] Trustee Gedye: a variety of coast Salish nations and traditional territory of the Squamish nation in particular.

[0:00:30] Trustee Gedye: And I've got a beautiful sunny day with a few clouds, but a little bit of a break from all

[0:00:37] Trustee Gedye: of the torrential rain we've been having and charging up our forests. So here we are,

[0:00:45] Trustee Gedye: Beautiful day. Let's get started. Any additions or amendments or reordering of the agenda?

[0:00:53] Trustee Gedye: All right. Then I'm going to assume that approval of the agenda is by consent.

[0:01:08] Trustee Gedye: Oh, sorry. There is one matter. 7.2. There was

[0:01:13] Trustee Gedye: is Trustee Patrick and I were supposed to get together

[0:01:17] Trustee Gedye: and do some sort of brief consultation with other members of the committee,

[0:01:23] Trustee Gedye: and I haven't done my part, and I haven't met with Chair Patrick,

[0:01:28] Trustee Gedye: so I'm going to suggest that that just get tabled once we get to it.

[0:01:33] Trustee Gedye: So other than that, I'm going to assume approval of the agenda,

[0:01:39] Trustee Gedye: agenda and the public comment period. Is there any member of the public present?

[0:01:47] Trustee Gedye: I don't know. No, Chair,

[0:01:49] Voice 4: there are no members of the public in attendance.

[0:01:52] Voice 4: And

[0:01:52] Trustee Gedye: there are no delegations. There is correspondence. And I am going to suggest that

[0:02:00] Trustee Gedye: um 5.1 that we accept that for information and that could be it might come up in comments with

[0:02:10] Trustee Gedye: respect to the recommendations of the governance review it has to do with the legal costs for the

[0:02:16] Trustee Gedye: secretariat so we've got administration coordinate administrative coordination item six on the agenda

[0:02:25] Trustee Gedye: draft minutes resolutions without meeting and follow-up action list any comments on

[0:02:30] Trustee Gedye: the draft minutes right not seeing any then I'm going to suggest that we

[0:02:41] Trustee Gedye: consent to the admission of all of the items that are under item number six the

[0:02:48] Trustee Gedye: minutes there are no resolutions without meaning and the follow-up action list is

[0:02:52] Trustee Gedye: for review and your information that gets us into item seven business arising

[0:03:00] Trustee Gedye: rising. So the first item on that is the budget approvals that were received at the last Trust

[0:03:07] Trustee Gedye: Council meeting. The first one of that was the compensation research and the hiring of a

[0:03:18] Trustee Gedye: a consultant for that. That's up at page 19, if I could. So the two matters that we put forward,

[0:03:36] Trustee Gedye: and we had three budget proposals, one for the compensation, one for policy review,

[0:03:42] Trustee Gedye: and one for the secretariat. And the first two got approval. So this first one, in terms of

[0:03:50] Trustee Gedye: the compensation it was basically to have staff hire a consultant obtain

[0:03:57] Trustee Gedye: three quotes and of any that respond any people that responded or companies that

[0:04:07] Trustee Gedye: responded to have some sort of a an assessment and then now it was subject

[0:04:14] Trustee Gedye: Project 2, members of the financial team being, there were vacant positions in the financial team.

[0:04:24] Trustee Gedye: And I'm wondering, Director Marler, can you speak to that? Is that a problem?

[0:04:33] Voice 1: You're mute.

[0:04:37] Voice 1: Apologies. No, I was going to, I don't think that's a problem.

[0:04:41] Voice 1: I was going to comment that I was talking to the director, Director Mobs, and she indicates that this is not a rush.

[0:04:50] Voice 1: It needs to be done this fiscal year, but any changes would take effect with the next term of trustees, which would be the end of next year, 2026.

[0:05:01] Voice 1: So this work can start later this year and you could leave it with Director Mobs to sort out the consultant and then come back to you with any information that you would need to know before she proceeds with getting this work underway.

[0:05:20] Trustee Gedye: All right. So we wanted to have this. If there was going to be a change in policy or recommendation, we wanted that to be done before the end of this term, which would be October of 26.

[0:05:32] Voice 1: Yes, that's correct. So

[0:05:34] Trustee Gedye: working backwards from that date, then we need to have this before Trust Council in at the very latest that September meeting.

[0:05:45] Trustee Gedye: and that doesn't give us any wiggle room no

[0:05:47] Voice 1: i would suggest actually that june trust council

[0:05:50] Voice 1: might be better that allows march trust council for any maybe an early discussion with council

[0:05:58] Voice 1: about any potential changes get the changes in place by june because by september you're already

[0:06:04] Voice 1: into the election process you're getting pretty close at that point all

[0:06:08] Trustee Gedye: right so then we want to

[0:06:11] Trustee Gedye: have a deadline of um say a report from the consultant by this time next year

[0:06:20] Voice 1: yeah i would

[0:06:22] Voice 1: suggest even um like january somewhere around there that can come back to you so i can just um

[0:06:29] Voice 1: let director mobs know that um just if you are okay with it um that you're just going to

[0:06:37] Voice 1: leave it with her on the timing but you would like to see something back in time for same match

[0:06:44] Voice 1: trust council next year okay

[0:06:46] Trustee Gedye: trustee borothwick welcome thank you uh

[0:06:50] Voice 3: thank you welcome i'm glad

[0:06:51] Voice 3: to be at baby's first governance committee meeting um uh yeah and i i just sort of wanted

[0:06:57] Voice 3: to i also sort of flagged that uh that requirement for for staff and and uh you know broadly i think

[0:07:05] Voice 3: you've covered what i was thinking but um yeah i would be concerned i i feel like this is going to

[0:07:12] Voice 3: be a topic that is going to warrant some discussion um i think there is there's support but i think in

[0:07:17] Voice 3: terms of the transparency and and reporting this out to the public which is also referenced in this

[0:07:21] Voice 3: report um that having chance to to talk this out uh properly and and sort of lay out the the case

[0:07:30] Voice 3: for it is going to be really important so i i would be worried about leaving it too long on

[0:07:35] Voice 3: on the docket but i'm i trust director mobs um so if if that is satisfactory to the rest of the

[0:07:42] Voice 3: committee i would just be really uh concerned that we leave this too too long um and and not

[0:07:50] Voice 3: give ourselves time to set it in place um and but i do recognize that we don't have to get this

[0:07:55] Voice 3: nailed down until the end of term and the sooner we get it done the sooner we can move on to other

[0:08:01] Voice 3: of things so okay

[0:08:02] Trustee Gedye: thank you trustee bernardo yeah

[0:08:07] Voice 10: uh i think we owe it to uh the next uh the

[0:08:11] Voice 10: trustees in the next term to make sure we get this taken care of done and dusted before uh you know

[0:08:17] Voice 10: the next election so that this is just all straightened away and there's no issues and

[0:08:21] Voice 10: nobody's got to scratch their heads about what to do because we're halfway through a project

[0:08:26] Voice 10: uh i get nervous when i hear people tentatively planning to get things right in on the deadline

[0:08:36] Voice 10: or a little bit before on something like this i would prefer us to uh let director mobs know that

[0:08:42] Voice 10: we'd like to have the report from the consultant by a certain period of time and i'm thinking

[0:08:48] Voice 10: maybe this september for the um or around that period of time because then that gives

[0:08:57] Voice 10: Because that will give Trust Council, when it has that report in front of it, time to think about it, if there's any issues, to send it back.

[0:09:05] Voice 10: And we always know if there's something sending back that might be time-consuming.

[0:09:10] Voice 10: I don't anticipate that would be the case because I think Trust Council would have to be incredibly careful of not to mess around with an independent report on something like this.

[0:09:21] Voice 10: I don't see Trust Council saying anything about numbers or anything like that.

[0:09:25] Voice 10: but there might be some areas of consultation that weren't done that we think should be done,

[0:09:33] Voice 10: that kind of thing, just process questions. I'm just trying to be cautious here. And I think we

[0:09:39] Voice 10: should give staff some direction as to when we think a good time would be to have that consultant's

[0:09:44] Voice 10: report in hand. And I don't think we ought to leave it to 2026. Let's at least have that report

[0:09:49] Voice 10: in hand sometime this year. That's my point. Thank you.

[0:09:54] Trustee Gedye: Okay. Thinking out loud, if we had it by

[0:09:57] Trustee Gedye: December, then that would fit within the budget considerations as well, right?

[0:10:06] Voice 10: Yes, that's right. That's an

[0:10:08] Voice 10: extremely good point, Chair Getty, in that if we tentatively

[0:10:12] Voice 10: think that's the way we're going to go, then you're quite right. It will have a knock-on

[0:10:20] Voice 10: effect on what the next year's budget is. And so rather than December, a little earlier than that

[0:10:27] Voice 10: would be even more helpful because if there's any you

[0:10:30] Voice 10: know you know staff has to deal with that in

[0:10:34] Voice 10: the budgetary context as well okay

[0:10:36] Trustee Gedye: trustee sorry chair are you chair or trustee here

[0:10:40] Trustee Patrick: let's call me

[0:10:40] Trustee Patrick: patrick um i guess it's cherry after or you can just call me trustee um yes i was going to bring

[0:10:48] Trustee Patrick: up the budget implications because i i think that is important that we want to have a decision made

[0:10:52] Trustee Patrick: It could be implemented to go into effect as of November 1, 2026, but it needs to be factored into the budget.

[0:11:00] Trustee Patrick: All

[0:11:04] Trustee Gedye: right. So we are recommending that this be dealt with by staff and that we would request of staff that we have a timeline for a report from the independent consultant on or before December 25.

[0:11:27] Trustee Gedye: I

[0:11:28] Voice 10: think for budgetary purposes, it probably should be September.

[0:11:34] Trustee Gedye: Okay. Without having input from Director Mobs, I would think that I'd like to know whether or not that's pushing it in terms of whatever her work plan is between now and September. If it's on or before, and ideally it would be September for the budget process, then she would understand all of that, right?

[0:11:57] Trustee Gedye: Right.

[0:11:59] Voice 10: I'm wondering if it's possible to have Director Mobb step in here.

[0:12:03] Voice 10: But, you know, she may have better things to do than sit in on this meeting.

[0:12:06] Voice 10: I don't know.

[0:12:08] Voice 1: If you just want it, I'll just see if she's available.

[0:12:11] Trustee Gedye: OK. Trustee Borthwick.

[0:12:13] Voice 3: I mean, yeah, I was I was going to say, I mean, without without I agree that without talking to Julia, we're going to run afoul of things there.

[0:12:22] Voice 3: But, I mean, I'd also be happy to say, you know, we would like to have it by December.

[0:12:28] Voice 3: remember and and if possible a little sooner and trust that she will do what she can to to get it

[0:12:34] Voice 3: to us within that that time frame and that that can be communicated through but all right well

[0:12:44] Trustee Gedye: director marler is certainly going to be advising her of what we've discussed here so um unless and

[0:12:52] Trustee Gedye: until it looks like he's chatting with somebody maybe he's talking to her unless and until we

[0:12:57] Trustee Gedye: we hear from her can we leave it as a recommendation that it's on her before december 25 or do we want

[0:13:03] Trustee Gedye: to say december 25 at the latest uh

[0:13:07] Voice 10: well that's that's anticipating an answer which is that she

[0:13:11] Voice 10: can actually have those numbers in hand and get the budget together um okay let me hear from i'd

[0:13:19] Voice 10: rather just hear from her

[0:13:21] Trustee Gedye: so you know

[0:13:21] Voice 10: what the amount of time is that she needs sort of not go

[0:13:24] Voice 10: go into a pal-mal crazy thing when she tries to do the budget director

[0:13:28] Trustee Gedye: marley's got his hand up

[0:13:29] Trustee Gedye: let's hear from him yeah

[0:13:31] Voice 1: so i got a message back from uh director mobs and she indicated she doesn't

[0:13:36] Voice 1: see any issues with september uh being a deadline so if you want to put a resolution in asking staff

[0:13:42] Voice 1: to have that consultant's report done in time for september trust council that would be fine

[0:13:48] Voice 1: good

[0:13:49] Trustee Gedye: all right so um i don't have the result sorry yes thank you trustee bernardo oh yeah

[0:14:01] Voice 10: i'm just doing this on the fly or is there one actually on this body

[0:14:05] Trustee Gedye: here but i um i can't get

[0:14:08] Trustee Gedye: out the agenda um could

[0:14:13] Voice 10: we see the recommendation as on on this or is there a recommendation

[0:14:17] Voice 10: recommendation or is this just for briefing it's

[0:14:21] Voice 1: uh just a briefing through the chair so um yeah

[0:14:24] Voice 1: i just wanted to bring it forward just to remind you that these projects are here you don't have

[0:14:29] Voice 1: to actually act on them today um but if you do then yes some direction to us would be appropriate

[0:14:36] Trustee Gedye: mr burlap i have a

[0:14:37] Voice 10: motion go

[0:14:38] Trustee Gedye: up okay go ahead sorry i

[0:14:40] Voice 10: was just going to move the necessary

[0:14:42] Voice 10: I move that Governance Committee request staff to arrange for the consultant's report in relation to trustee remuneration be prepared and ready for a trust council consideration in September 2025.

[0:15:21] Voice 10: Seconder?

[0:15:23] Trustee Gedye: Seconder? Trustee Gorthwick? All right. Any more discussion? All right. All those in favor? All right. I think that's carried. Any opposed? All right. Thank you.

[0:16:05] Trustee Gedye: 7.2 um review of the governance committee mandate this is the one that i'm suggesting that we table

[0:16:13] Trustee Gedye: um chair patrick and i have not done our homework or i have not done my homework in terms of

[0:16:18] Trustee Gedye: getting chair patrick to work with me on this so um anybody opposed to that this is my

[0:16:27] Trustee Gedye: addition to the agenda way back and oh i think it was november last year or something so

[0:16:35] Trustee Gedye: So I will get on it, but not today.

[0:16:40] Trustee Gedye: How about 7.3, the 2022 Governance Review Recommendations?

[0:16:44] Trustee Gedye: I think this is our biggest.

[0:16:46] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton

[0:16:46] Trustee Gedye: has his hand up.

[0:16:47] Trustee Gedye: Yeah, okay.

[0:16:48] Trustee Gedye: I think the 7.3 is our biggest work order today.

[0:16:52] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton, welcome.

[0:16:54] Trustee Middleton: Hi, thank you.

[0:16:55] Trustee Middleton: Yes, so, excuse me, sorry to join late.

[0:16:59] Trustee Middleton: Could you just go over that last item, Chair?

[0:17:03] Trustee Middleton: Erin, I obviously missed when you...

[0:17:05] Trustee Middleton: 7.2?

[0:17:06] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, you were talking about tabling it.

[0:17:07] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[0:17:08] Trustee Middleton: And just kind of give me just a quick update

[0:17:11] Trustee Middleton: because I think I may have a comment there.

[0:17:14] Trustee Middleton: It ties in elsewhere, I think,

[0:17:15] Trustee Middleton: but I don't want to make that assumption.

[0:17:17] Trustee Middleton: So if you could give me some quick background,

[0:17:20] Trustee Middleton: that'd be great.

[0:17:21] Trustee Gedye: Way back in whenever it was the meeting

[0:17:23] Trustee Gedye: that I ended up not being able to chair

[0:17:25] Trustee Gedye: because I had a major power outage,

[0:17:27] Trustee Gedye: I'd put it on the agenda that we should be looking at

[0:17:30] Trustee Gedye: and spending a little bit of time in our mandate.

[0:17:34] Trustee Gedye: And basically it was to, and I don't have it in front of me, so it's from memory, but it was to go through the governance review recommendations and to look at best practices.

[0:17:48] Trustee Gedye: And I just wanted to go through our work plan and that mandate and see where we stood and just get an update.

[0:17:56] Trustee Gedye: At that point, we were halfway through our mandate, our term.

[0:17:59] Trustee Gedye: So it was just basically seeing what the cards were that were on the table and how to arrange them and to do some work on that.

[0:18:07] Trustee Gedye: So at the last meeting, we agreed that I and Trustee Patrick would conduct an informal poll of committee members to think about what we wanted to prioritize and work on the mandate.

[0:18:26] Trustee Gedye: And we didn't, I didn't get that organized. So that's what's being tabled.

[0:18:34] Trustee Middleton: Thank you for that. I appreciate it. It does perhaps seem to tie into, and again, correct me if I'm making an assumption here, please, Chair.

[0:18:45] Trustee Middleton: So 7.3, where we're reviewing each of the, I guess, the priorities we adopted at the last meeting.

[0:18:56] Trustee Middleton: We're going to be talking about them in regards structuring a committee of the whole.

[0:19:04] Trustee Middleton: Do I have that correctly?

[0:19:07] Trustee Gedye: Yes, we're putting a request for decision to, I believe, executive committee

[0:19:13] Trustee Gedye: to get this diarized in terms of setting up,

[0:19:18] Trustee Gedye: I believe the last council,

[0:19:21] Trustee Gedye: we decided that it would be dealt with

[0:19:23] Trustee Gedye: at a committee of the whole.

[0:19:25] Trustee Gedye: And we need to get a request for decision

[0:19:28] Trustee Gedye: to the executive committee in order for,

[0:19:31] Trustee Gedye: sorry, Director Marler.

[0:19:35] Voice 1: Yeah, I thought I'd just help you out.

[0:19:37] Voice 1: So if you don't mind.

[0:19:39] Voice 1: Yeah, so the report on the screen

[0:19:42] Voice 1: is an updated version of the one you saw last time to the Governance Committee. It has attached to it

[0:19:49] Voice 1: a draft request for a decision from the committee to Trust Council, which would be the Committee

[0:19:57] Voice 1: of the Whole. That's the intent is to take it through Committee of the Whole. So in this document,

[0:20:02] Voice 1: in the recommendations, the yellow highlight indicate recommendations that were amended

[0:20:09] Voice 1: ended based on the direction of the governance committee at the last meeting and then under the

[0:20:14] Voice 1: background i didn't indicate uh uh all of it in yellow but uh there is some changes here just to

[0:20:22] Voice 1: reflect uh what some of the um um implications are of the recommendations um yeah i think i'm

[0:20:36] Voice 1: Yeah, my apologies. I think there's some additional that didn't get into this version in the document here, but there's another few sentences, so I'll make sure you see that before I send it forward, assuming that you want to send this forward.

[0:20:51] Voice 1: All

[0:20:53] Trustee Gedye: right. I had a question on the recommendation, which on page 26, that there was a recommendation that this be, there it is, down at the bottom there. Sorry, there. Thank you. Too far.

[0:21:15] Trustee Gedye: okay the committee of the whole so um the committee of the whole meeting is suggested to

[0:21:20] Trustee Gedye: occur in may after committee the whole's completed review of the trust policy statement amendments

[0:21:25] Trustee Gedye: and that's been taken out of committee of the whole and and the trust policy's gone to um

[0:21:33] Trustee Gedye: another committee right yeah

[0:21:37] Voice 1: if i may and just maybe if um the ceo is available um

[0:21:42] Voice 1: we did talk the other day about what dates are available and which dates we thought the

[0:21:48] Voice 1: governance committee may want to take this forward um so the sales has those dates i don't have them

[0:21:55] Voice 1: in front of me unfortunately um

[0:21:58] Voice 9: i'll i'll try and pull them up but i do think we were looking at

[0:22:02] Voice 9: pending outcome of this discussion there are currently committee the whole meeting scheduled

[0:22:06] Voice 9: scheduled for May 6th and 13th and then I also believe that the 29th so those are the and then

[0:22:15] Voice 9: there's another one June 6th as well there are a few other items that trust Council had asked

[0:22:20] Voice 9: us to bring forward to committee of the whole but this could be slotted into any one of those

[0:22:26] Voice 9: available dates and if this committee was prepared I and subject to director Marver's comments on

[0:22:34] Voice 9: ability to prepare for that, we could potentially bring it forward as early as that May 6th day.

[0:22:40] Trustee Gedye: Does this need to get to executive committee at all in terms of getting on an agenda?

[0:22:45] Voice 9: It would be, it could be added to next week's executive committee

[0:22:49] Voice 9: meeting if the decision comes out from this meeting today.

[0:22:53] Trustee Gedye: All right. All right. So let's talk about the recommendations, how we want to present this,

[0:23:03] Trustee Gedye: who wants to participate how if we're going to divide it up and um what our goals are with

[0:23:10] Trustee Gedye: respect to um having a discussion by the whole council there's many people that will come to

[0:23:16] Trustee Gedye: the community the whole trustee bernardo yeah

[0:23:21] Voice 10: before we get to that in terms of you know talking

[0:23:23] Voice 10: to the logistics of how we conduct the committee the whole meeting i think we need to confirm to

[0:23:28] Voice 10: ourselves as a committee that uh you know we actually make this recommendation and forward it

[0:23:35] Voice 10: to trust council um for the committee the whole consideration so i think i i support this

[0:23:43] Voice 10: recommendation and i think in relation to the committee the whole aspect of it i think the

[0:23:48] Voice 10: sooner the better i mean this report the governance review came out in 2022 it has

[0:23:55] Voice 10: has um very bracing things to say about how uh the islands trust operates it's highly critical

[0:24:06] Voice 10: and it sat for two and a half years before trust council trustees in general have had an

[0:24:15] Voice 10: opportunity even to have it before them so they can discuss it in a perfect world this would have

[0:24:21] Voice 10: have been in front of the new trust council within the first six months,

[0:24:26] Voice 10: but that's not what happened.

[0:24:28] Voice 10: So I'm very anxious that this trust council have an opportunity to engage

[0:24:33] Voice 10: this issue. We don't know where that discussion is going to go.

[0:24:36] Voice 10: It may not, I doubt it's going to be a one and done committee,

[0:24:40] Voice 10: the whole meeting. There's a lot in there.

[0:24:42] Voice 10: So the sooner this stuff gets to trust council, the better.

[0:24:46] Voice 10: And in relation to the last item that we just tabled,

[0:24:49] Voice 10: uh i would anticipate out of trust council's discussions about the governance report that's

[0:24:56] Voice 10: going to have a significant impact on our the priorities that we set for ourselves in terms

[0:25:00] Voice 10: of mandate and all the rest of it in any event i like the structure of this i think it makes sense

[0:25:05] Voice 10: uh it present this um reckon you know the recommendation we're asked who we're that

[0:25:13] Voice 10: we're asked to approve that we'd send forward to trust council i think creates a good framework

[0:25:18] Voice 10: for Trust Council to discuss those issues.

[0:25:21] Voice 10: Trust Council can wade into all the relevant recommendations

[0:25:24] Voice 10: and then it can go and decide what kind of priorities

[0:25:27] Voice 10: it wants to put onto it, put onto them.

[0:25:30] Voice 10: And I agree with the ones that have been segregated out

[0:25:32] Voice 10: as no longer timely.

[0:25:37] Voice 10: Thanks.

[0:25:40] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton?

[0:25:47] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:25:49] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I think I would, this is sort of related

[0:25:53] Trustee Middleton: it a little bit to your chair your comments about mandate because now i but i do understand that uh

[0:26:03] Trustee Middleton: this recommendation may perhaps achieve the goal of i i tend to wonder these days how much

[0:26:12] Trustee Middleton: buy-in there generally is at this committee in any of these recommendations

[0:26:17] Trustee Middleton: and this is not a criticism or a dig in any way it may simply be that the this these are the this

[0:26:27] Trustee Middleton: is the wrong piece of work at the at the at the wrong time for this committee and this committee

[0:26:34] Trustee Middleton: may have other ideas about how it wishes to uh improve governance or tend to governance matters

[0:26:41] Trustee Middleton: at Trust Council, and what I originally thought was,

[0:26:45] Trustee Middleton: okay, if these recommendations are to be brought forward

[0:26:50] Trustee Middleton: to a larger committee at Council,

[0:26:53] Trustee Middleton: in a sense, there needs to be a level of advocacy.

[0:26:58] Trustee Middleton: Otherwise, we're just moving a piece of paper

[0:27:01] Trustee Middleton: and saying, what do you think?

[0:27:03] Trustee Middleton: Now, that may be appropriate.

[0:27:04] Trustee Middleton: Maybe that's exactly the right venue now

[0:27:07] Trustee Middleton: for people at the broader, around the Council table

[0:27:10] Trustee Middleton: able to say this resonates with us or this does not resonate with us. But I'm not of the opinion,

[0:27:18] Trustee Middleton: and this may not matter, that we particularly have any champions around the table any longer,

[0:27:26] Trustee Middleton: perhaps, you know, besides myself from a legacy background. And Trustee Bernardo, I know, speaks

[0:27:32] Trustee Middleton: to some of these points, perhaps Trustee Harris. But I would say we don't necessarily have a

[0:27:37] Trustee Middleton: a majority embracing of these recommendations such that are we potentially wasting council's time if

[0:27:47] Trustee Middleton: we move forward as a committee when i'm not entirely sure as a committee the committee

[0:27:52] Trustee Middleton: buys in and i say the committee in the in the pluralistic sense knowing the majority speaks

[0:27:58] Trustee Middleton: for the committee um do we actually buy into this set of recommendations in a meaningful way where

[0:28:06] Trustee Middleton: where we would like to present them to council so that they could be actioned.

[0:28:10] Trustee Middleton: My suspicion, and I say this without prejudice, my suspicion is no.

[0:28:14] Trustee Middleton: And what I would say is we perhaps would be better served and council would be better served if we sought out a different body of work.

[0:28:23] Trustee Middleton: Don't mean to be controversial about that.

[0:28:24] Trustee Middleton: I think I'm just taking the read of the room and I maybe leave it there for your comment or your response, potentially, chair, if you feel you wish to make one.

[0:28:35] Trustee Middleton: on. That is just kind of my reasoned view. And again, without negativity or prejudice about the

[0:28:41] Trustee Middleton: situation, I think I'm just taking the temperature as I see it. Thank you.

[0:28:47] Trustee Gedye: Well, let's keep that in

[0:28:49] Trustee Gedye: mind when we're going through these recommendations then, in terms of how strongly we as a group

[0:28:56] Trustee Gedye: support it, or if there's some discussion. Trustee Peterson.

[0:29:02] Voice 8: Thank you, Chair. I support

[0:29:04] Voice 8: I support the the notion here of getting this at long last in front of Trust

[0:29:11] Voice 8: Council I was on Trust Council last term and Trust Council has never done any

[0:29:19] Voice 8: kind of a systematic go-through as a body of the report and the

[0:29:25] Voice 8: recommendations so I'm glad to see that finally we're getting there that said I

[0:29:32] Voice 8: I think whether there's specific parts of the report

[0:29:39] Voice 8: that individuals may wish to champion or not

[0:29:42] Voice 8: is not really the point to me from this committee.

[0:29:48] Voice 8: It's that Trust Council needs to actually have this opportunity.

[0:29:53] Voice 8: I think there's perhaps varying levels of recognition amongst trustees.

[0:30:00] Voice 8: as to the accuracy, validity, applicability, perhaps,

[0:30:07] Voice 8: however you would like to frame it,

[0:30:09] Voice 8: of individual recommendations from the report

[0:30:12] Voice 8: to the work of Trust Council

[0:30:14] Voice 8: and which are more and or less important and or applicable.

[0:30:20] Voice 8: And I think it's absolutely appropriate for Trust Council

[0:30:24] Voice 8: to take the time to do some looking at

[0:30:27] Voice 8: in consideration of all of those recommendations in a way that has yet to happen at the trust

[0:30:32] Voice 8: council level so i'm happy to see this uh at last going to trust council um i wouldn't want

[0:30:39] Voice 8: to prejudge uh the outcome of those discussions um as to whether the efficacy of that discussion is

[0:30:51] Voice 8: is useful or not again that's i don't think that's for this committee to decide i think that's

[0:30:56] Voice 8: that that's something that's going to happen take place at the trust council level um so

[0:31:02] Voice 8: with that in terms of the individual recommendations and perhaps a little bit to uh

[0:31:09] Voice 8: trustee middleton's point um and and maybe perhaps even reflecting back to what chair

[0:31:16] Voice 8: said earlier around um the potential for dividing up the and championing uh uh different parts of

[0:31:26] Voice 8: I think that's something we can hash out, and perhaps those that are more passionate about some of these pieces than others might be the natural champions.

[0:31:35] Voice 8: I would just point to the, for example, Recommendation F around the corporate secretary.

[0:31:44] Voice 8: Now, we did consider that at Trust Council. Unfortunately, in the absence of more analysis that might have helped Trust Council to make a decision in favor of budgetary funding, it shouldn't happen.

[0:32:03] Voice 8: So anyway, I'll leave it there. I think this is important work. I think it's time for Trust Council to take some time to do a deep dive.

[0:32:10] Voice 8: And certainly, I think it's appropriate that this committee, both from the chair and individually and from executive committee, encourage trustees to review the report before that committee of the whole.

[0:32:27] Voice 8: And let's do the deep dive as a group in a way that has not happened yet and really needs to happen.

[0:32:33] Voice 8: Thank you.

[0:32:34] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Borthwick?

[0:32:35] Trustee Gedye: Yeah.

[0:32:37] Voice 3: And I'm aware that I am speaking from a place of naivete in terms of the specific dynamics of this committee and what's going on here. I have some idea, but it's not firsthand.

[0:32:52] Voice 3: hand. But I can speak from the perspective of a trust council member who has not been on this

[0:33:01] Voice 3: committee and not been privy to the discussions that you guys have had. And I can say that

[0:33:05] Voice 3: certainly for me, the governance report has been something that's been very interesting

[0:33:08] Voice 3: since the beginning of term. I read it right away and had hoped to be on this committee the first

[0:33:16] Voice 3: time around, and then I decided not to because I had too many other things going on. So I'm glad

[0:33:20] Voice 3: to be here and uh i think yeah absolutely this is something that there should be i think it is

[0:33:27] Voice 3: good for us just to go through these and i think it would be really valuable for trust council

[0:33:31] Voice 3: to have uh this committee sort of walk them through these recommendations and just and and

[0:33:37] Voice 3: sort of you know overview that discussion um i also know that without a clear vision

[0:33:46] Voice 3: revision the committee of the whole format and be a nightmare um so i would want us to go in

[0:33:56] Voice 3: with uh you know i i think i think it would be useful for us to go in with with having done a

[0:34:02] Voice 3: little bit of triage in terms of our our priorities and also looking at what's doable um within within

[0:34:08] Voice 3: the scope of this term um because as much as it's important that this review be given to all

[0:34:15] Voice 3: all trustees and i think it is absolutely um we also need to be realistic about what's possible

[0:34:21] Voice 3: now between the end now and the end of term and what we're going to be handing on to the next

[0:34:25] Voice 3: trust council because i think there's there's no doubt that there's lots of good material in the

[0:34:30] Voice 3: governance report and that there's there's stuff that needs doing and that there are i think i

[0:34:36] Voice 3: don't think that there's a trustee who could say that trust council functions perfectly uh or that

[0:34:41] Voice 3: the trust functions perfectly. That's not, that's not there. There is, there is meat on the bone

[0:34:45] Voice 3: here. Um, I would just say, I would really want us to have a clear, a pretty clear vision of what

[0:34:51] Voice 3: we're, we're coming forward with. Um, and that doesn't necessarily have to be a vision that we

[0:34:56] Voice 3: like a hundred percent are all completely in agreement about. Um, but, but singling out some

[0:35:02] Voice 3: priorities to just for discussion, uh, is going to help guide that conversation a lot more. And I

[0:35:09] Voice 3: I just know that that committee of the whole does tend to wander hither and

[0:35:13] Voice 3: yon without a little, little guidance. So I would love to see,

[0:35:17] Voice 3: I I'm very much support bringing this forward and I would want to make sure

[0:35:21] Voice 3: that we're doing it with, with a bit of a plan.

[0:35:26] Voice 3: And, and I think it behoves us to go through. And, and I,

[0:35:30] Voice 3: I know that you guys have done a lot of work on this already,

[0:35:34] Voice 3: and you've had a lot of these discussions.

[0:35:36] Voice 3: So maybe I'm missing work that you've already done in terms of, you know, singling out some things in particular.

[0:35:42] Voice 3: But I think I think there is some value in coming forward with a plan.

[0:35:48] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo. Thank you.

[0:35:55] Voice 10: First, I'd like to address Trustee Middleton's point.

[0:35:59] Voice 10: And, you know, I disagree with his intuition that there's a lack of support on this committee or there's uncertainty about it.

[0:36:10] Voice 10: I mean, what we've been doing from the beginning of term has actually, for the most part, we have been working on advancing recommendations according to the matrix that we developed early on.

[0:36:21] Voice 10: We weren't particularly reflective, frankly, at the beginning of this thing about going through the kind of the nuances of the report.

[0:36:29] Voice 10: We kind of just went, looked through the recommendations, decided which ones we thought made sense and advanced them.

[0:36:36] Voice 10: We worked on the corporate plan that's underway.

[0:36:38] Voice 10: way. It's going under fits and starts, but it's an initiative that started with us. We did the

[0:36:44] Voice 10: work on the mandate for Section 3. Just earlier, we talked about the remuneration issue. These are

[0:36:50] Voice 10: all things that are in the governance review, and the governance review has actually shaped

[0:36:54] Voice 10: the work that we've done here. So I don't see how it's possible to say that this committee is,

[0:37:00] Voice 10: you know, in some general way, not supportive of the review. I think what is true is that there

[0:37:08] Voice 10: are different views within this committee about which parts of the review deserve to be given

[0:37:14] Voice 10: emphasis and attention and which don't. But when it comes down to the question of what we bring

[0:37:24] Voice 10: to the Trust Council, our collective opinion as a committee as to the report's recommendations and

[0:37:30] Voice 10: what the priorities ought to be may be interesting and helpful for some trustees, but ultimately it's

[0:37:37] Voice 10: not that relevant to the Trust Council's decision. The report belongs to Trust Council.

[0:37:46] Voice 10: It was not made for this committee. It was made to answer concerns that Trust Council had

[0:37:54] Voice 10: had voted on, and it chose to have this report.

[0:37:58] Voice 10: This report that Trust Council voted for and voted to support the funding for

[0:38:04] Voice 10: has yet to go before the committee or before Trust Council.

[0:38:08] Voice 10: And so the decision as to any conclusions as to the merits of the report,

[0:38:15] Voice 10: those are for the Trust Council itself to draw.

[0:38:18] Voice 10: They're not for us to pre-cook it for them.

[0:38:20] Voice 10: uh like the you know the existing report as it is now it represents a collective view of

[0:38:29] Voice 10: trustees and senior staff last term and what's not working at the trust council and so it's for

[0:38:36] Voice 10: trust council of this term all those trustees to weigh in and tell us what they think and that at

[0:38:43] Voice 10: the end of the day is can and should provide real leadership for us here as to what our priorities

[0:38:48] Voice 10: are going to be so i think i and to address trustee borthwick's point i agree going into

[0:38:57] Voice 10: a committee of the whole with some kind of structure is definitely advisable we need to

[0:39:01] Voice 10: sort of lead the discussion just throwing it out there won't won't cut it we have had the benefit

[0:39:06] Voice 10: of two and a half years of discussing these things we all do have views about what should

[0:39:11] Voice 10: be prioritized but at the end of the day our job isn't to try to shape the outcome of the trust

[0:39:18] Voice 10: council decision or debate but to facilitate it so uh in any case how we present the the review

[0:39:29] Voice 10: at the committee of the whole would be i think a separate thing from from what we're trying to

[0:39:34] Voice 10: decide right now which is you know do we move forward with this and do we make that recommendation

[0:39:41] Voice 10: and i think we can sort out how we do the performance later it's still for trust council

[0:39:46] Voice 10: Council to decide and as my final point would be I would anticipate it to the extent that governance

[0:39:52] Voice 10: committees involved in facilitating discussion we would be using the matrix as our guide in terms of

[0:39:59] Voice 10: what we emphasize and what we don't emphasize thank you trustee

[0:40:06] Trustee Gedye: Middleton I

[0:40:09] Trustee Middleton: thank you yes so

[0:40:10] Trustee Middleton: um perhaps to clarify uh page 28 of the agenda is what role does this play in terms of preparing

[0:40:18] Trustee Middleton: comparing us to facilitate a Committee of the Whole.

[0:40:23] Trustee Middleton: Is this document one that we agree to,

[0:40:29] Trustee Middleton: and that then becomes the structure

[0:40:30] Trustee Middleton: of the Committee of the Whole meeting?

[0:40:32] Trustee Middleton: Or is this something ancillary,

[0:40:34] Trustee Middleton: something completely separate?

[0:40:36] Trustee Middleton: Because Trustee Bernardo just talked about using the matrix.

[0:40:39] Trustee Middleton: Well, if we're presenting this document,

[0:40:41] Trustee Middleton: we're not using the matrix,

[0:40:43] Trustee Middleton: we're presenting this document to council.

[0:40:45] Trustee Middleton: So perhaps I'm confused about the role

[0:40:47] Trustee Middleton: of where the decision is that we're being asked to make

[0:40:51] Trustee Middleton: and make him regard the Committee of the Whole

[0:40:53] Trustee Middleton: and what's the reference to the document on page 28.

[0:40:59] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:41:00] Trustee Gedye: So first of all, Mr. Barlow, could you pull up page 28?

[0:41:08] Voice 10: Chair, may I clarify my remark for Trustee Middleton?

[0:41:13] Voice 10: Trustee Middleton, it wasn't my suggestion

[0:41:17] Voice 10: that we would offer Trust Council something different than this document.

[0:41:21] Voice 10: I think this would be the recommendation as drafted would be the framework for discussion.

[0:41:26] Voice 10: My reference to the matrix was in response to Trustee Borthwick's concern that we make sure that we have kind of a structured discussion.

[0:41:36] Voice 10: My reference to the matrix was how we would organize our thoughts in terms of the advocacy point to the extent that we have anything to advocate.

[0:41:46] Voice 10: But that the structure of the meeting would be around what's in fact presented to us.

[0:41:52] Voice 10: That's how, but the matrix simply represents the kind of advocacy we might bring forward when we're discussing it. Thank you.

[0:42:04] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Patrick.

[0:42:07] Trustee Patrick: Yes. Well, no, setting up the conversation is going to be very key and a lot of planning and practice so that this can land and be understood.

[0:42:18] Trustee Patrick: Because each of these recommendations can be from the simple to potentially quite complex work that would need to be done to respond to them.

[0:42:29] Trustee Patrick: So I think as the conversations unfold, there could be redirections. Some of these say they go to governance committees. Some of these say they go to the executive committees. Some of these say they go somewhere else.

[0:42:41] Trustee Patrick: There could be redirection of who needs to be given the bulk of the work from Trust Council. So we need to be prepared for that. These are very high level. So I would expect next step coming back, any of these that are approved or put forward by Trust Council, that the next step would be a staff report coming back to them at some point saying, here's your options.

[0:43:08] Trustee Patrick: and do you want to keep going on this work so it's it's not just go do it it's going to be

[0:43:13] Trustee Patrick: kicking off the work or kicking off the beginning of uh even going into it so um i think we just

[0:43:20] Trustee Patrick: need to really put some effort into setting up how this conversation could be done successfully

[0:43:25] Trustee Patrick: and um so that we can get to this closure on this stage all

[0:43:33] Trustee Gedye: right i'm i would like us to try and

[0:43:37] Trustee Gedye: figure out how to move off whether or not we have a general discussion about whether we're doing this

[0:43:42] Trustee Gedye: or what it is that we're going to be doing. So, Trustee Peterson.

[0:43:50] Voice 8: Yeah, thank you, Chair, and

[0:43:54] Voice 8: I'm ready to make the recommendation if we're ready to go there, but just reflecting on some

[0:44:00] Voice 8: of what I've heard, the matrix represents the committee work program, and in terms of the way

[0:44:08] Voice 8: our committees generally operate. Work programs usually consist of work that's assigned by Trust

[0:44:17] Voice 8: Council to the committees to do the work on behalf of Trust Council. So far, this committee has been

[0:44:24] Voice 8: somewhat unique in the sense that we had the governance report to look at and for

[0:44:34] Voice 8: for any trustees who weren't here at the beginning of the term, for your benefit, each of us went

[0:44:42] Voice 8: through the report individually and sort of highlighted the bits that we thought were

[0:44:48] Voice 8: important, that we thought we could do work on, and that formed the basis

[0:44:53] Voice 8: for our matrix slash work program. That's a little different than usually happens with

[0:44:58] Voice 8: other committees i just want to recognize that um this sort of ties back into uh the item that

[0:45:05] Voice 8: was tabled around the mandate uh of this committee because at some point um trust council and the

[0:45:15] Voice 8: committee will have worked through the recommendations of the report and um and so

[0:45:23] Voice 8: So that question about the mandate of this committee is relevant in the future as to what is going to be the function of this committee when the recommendations of the report have been gone through.

[0:45:37] Voice 8: And I think that bears some thinking.

[0:45:39] Voice 8: So just those are reflections.

[0:45:40] Voice 8: And I'm more than happy to make the motion if, Chair, if you think that we're ready for that.

[0:45:49] Voice 8: I

[0:45:50] Trustee Gedye: do not think we're ready.

[0:45:51] Trustee Gedye: But hold that thought.

[0:45:55] Trustee Gedye: All right. I don't see any more hands up, although I've got a very diminished screen here.

[0:46:01] Trustee Gedye: If you go back to the minutes, starting at page five in the last meeting, we had very similar recommendations and we went through them point by point.

[0:46:10] Trustee Gedye: And what is presented to us today on this yellow highlighted part is, correct me if I'm wrong, Director Marler, but I believe this is the amended and revised recommendations that we worked on, taking into account the discussion that we had on each point at the last meeting.

[0:46:30] Trustee Gedye: So at this, I was under the impression that we were going to proceed with these recommendations, not to rubber stamp them, but just to double check and to proceed with a committee of the whole.

[0:46:45] Trustee Gedye: so that this council had an opportunity to have some depth of understanding of the recommendations

[0:46:54] Trustee Gedye: and what we've been working on and what we thought is something that we could continue to work on

[0:47:03] Trustee Gedye: and get some direction from the council.

[0:47:07] Trustee Gedye: council. I have been under, I suppose, a bit of a misapprehension that the last council, when this

[0:47:16] Trustee Gedye: was tabled in February of 22, did have a chance to go through it and talk about it. There was a

[0:47:22] Trustee Gedye: workshop that followed that, and there were recommendations that came out of that in terms

[0:47:27] Trustee Gedye: of prioritizing when the original governance committee was first set up. And that when this

[0:47:35] Trustee Gedye: This new council was elected, the new governance committee was established, that's most of

[0:47:43] Trustee Gedye: us here, and that we picked up the governance review, went through it.

[0:47:52] Trustee Gedye: I had understood that it had been delegated to us to try and prioritize the governance

[0:47:57] Trustee Gedye: review and to work on that.

[0:47:58] Trustee Gedye: and I am thinking that we may have gone as far as we can with a lot of this

[0:48:08] Trustee Gedye: and there's certainly some ends to tie up but there's a bulk a lot of the work we might have

[0:48:15] Trustee Gedye: to do some remedial and fix up the section 3 mandate and that seems to have come up again but

[0:48:19] Trustee Gedye: But, you know, in terms of getting some direction from council and based on this, we're coming up to a situation where we've worked on this, I think, in depth for almost the entire part of our term.

[0:48:38] Trustee Gedye: And that was my discussion I wanted to have in terms of the matrix.

[0:48:42] Trustee Gedye: Are we prepared to go off the governance review and think of possibly some other things that we should work on and either best practice or some of these other things that we've left out of the matrix in terms of important and essential but not necessarily part of our mandate?

[0:49:01] Trustee Gedye: That's a bigger discussion and that might be part of the committee of the whole, but I think we've got enough meat on the bone here to work with.

[0:49:11] Trustee Gedye: So are we agreed that we are going to work through the summaries that we've done with respect to the recommendations and present that somehow to Trust Council in a Committee of the Whole format?

[0:49:29] Trustee Gedye: If we're still deciding that issue, I think that needs to be sorted.

[0:49:33] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo, you're mute.

[0:49:41] Voice 10: Point of order here.

[0:49:42] Voice 10: I'm sorry, but I'm sorry.

[0:49:46] Voice 10: I was muted.

[0:49:46] Voice 10: it i was making a point of order but chair have you completed your remarks yes

[0:49:50] Trustee Gedye: okay thank you

[0:49:52] Voice 10: well i guess i'll have to make a point at a point of order but just the last

[0:49:55] Voice 10: remarks that with respect that you're making chair are um that's a separate issue from what

[0:50:01] Voice 10: the matter is before us on the agenda today on this thing this is about what we forward to trust

[0:50:08] Voice 10: council yeah we worked on it before it had as you correctly pointed out it has some you know

[0:50:14] Voice 10: know had general support but we tweaked it send it back to staff and now it's it's back before us

[0:50:19] Voice 10: and um the idea of like the larger question of it should governance committee move on to other

[0:50:26] Voice 10: more interesting things that's not for us to decide really uh as trustee predison pointed out

[0:50:31] Voice 10: the typical practice is trust council provides direction governance committee is in this odd

[0:50:37] Voice 10: odd situation uh that it was presented with this governance review to look at

[0:50:44] Voice 11: yeah

[0:50:45] Voice 10: um and we kind

[0:50:46] Voice 10: of figured it out on our own but the reason we figured it out on our own and i think the trustees

[0:50:53] Voice 10: who were here last term can speak more um accurately to this my understanding is actually

[0:50:58] Voice 10: completely different than than yours chair which is that trust council really didn't get a chance

[0:51:04] Voice 10: to consider this and hasn't thought about it in any kind of serious way and hasn't certainly not

[0:51:09] Voice 10: debated it now if i'm wrong about that i would hope that trustees middleton and peterson might

[0:51:14] Voice 10: be able to correct us on that but uh if you

[0:51:20] Trustee Gedye: want to talk about governance let's not

[0:51:22] Trustee Gedye: get off on that

[0:51:23] Trustee Gedye: tangent can we just decide

[0:51:25] Voice 10: we're going to do with this with respect the chair getty it's not a

[0:51:31] Voice 10: tangent it's fundamental about you know what are we doing here and you know if we want to talk

[0:51:38] Voice 10: about governance there's something not right about an organization that has a report about

[0:51:43] Voice 10: its dysfunction and then for mysterious reasons it simply doesn't go to the body that's supposed

[0:51:50] Voice 10: to make the decisions about it for over two and a half years we've waited long enough for this

[0:51:55] Voice 10: this is good enough to get it in front of trust committee trust council it's time for us to move

[0:51:59] Voice 10: this forward and i really would hope that trustee peterson make his motion so we could get on to the

[0:52:04] Voice 10: main attraction here thank you

[0:52:06] Trustee Gedye: trustee peterson yeah

[0:52:10] Voice 8: just in in response to um those comments

[0:52:14] Voice 8: uh having having been having been on last last term in fact the trust council response to the

[0:52:23] Voice 8: the report of any tangible reality was to form a governance committee, which I believe we had

[0:52:33] Voice 8: the opportunity to meet twice before end of term. So not an awful lot of work got done

[0:52:40] Voice 8: by the governance committee, which is, I believe, Trustee Middleton and Stanford and myself were

[0:52:49] Voice 8: were on that inaugural committee, but we had two meetings.

[0:52:54] Voice 8: So that's why all of this work is here.

[0:52:58] Voice 8: But Trustee Bernardo is correct.

[0:53:01] Voice 8: Essentially, other than forming the Governance Committee,

[0:53:07] Voice 8: Trust Council did absolutely no deep dive on the report

[0:53:13] Voice 8: and did not do much else besides initiate the committee.

[0:53:18] Voice 8: committee so so that is the reality um having looked through all these recommendations looking

[0:53:24] Voice 8: through the minutes that uh that inform this report um or I think we've we've to my view

[0:53:32] Voice 8: we've hashed through most of this at the previous meeting um I'll just reiterate I'm I'm ready to

[0:53:38] Voice 8: make the uh uh the recommended motion and and and get this off to Trust Council where I believe in

[0:53:47] Voice 8: and the next round of debate belongs thank you

[0:53:51] Trustee Gedye: trustee middleton thank

[0:53:54] Trustee Middleton: you um we i disagree

[0:53:58] Trustee Middleton: about the amount of input the previous council has had into this report we've spent hours at

[0:54:05] Trustee Middleton: the council actually both receiving it talking to the uh the um the authors of the report um

[0:54:13] Trustee Middleton: And I think there is a strong tendency occurs, we bring something to council, who've had every opportunity to review and question the governance report.

[0:54:28] Trustee Middleton: And then what tends to happen at council is we say, well, we don't have enough information about this.

[0:54:33] Trustee Middleton: We've really never been given a chance to talk about this.

[0:54:37] Trustee Middleton: Or I think you should go away and provide us with more context.

[0:54:40] Trustee Middleton: And we really need the chance to talk about this.

[0:54:42] Trustee Middleton: it's an endless cycle and again I come back are we serious about this I don't think so I think

[0:54:50] Trustee Middleton: we've seen stalling behavior disinterest if this goes this document goes to council what would you

[0:54:59] Trustee Middleton: expect to happen I mean nobody's speaking championing anything the actual impetus for

[0:55:06] Trustee Middleton: those recommendations is deeply buried if you don't give it the context of the report and I

[0:55:11] Trustee Middleton: Again, I come back to it. Why bother? Why waste everyone's time here?

[0:55:15] Trustee Middleton: I'm really not seeing any compelling championing.

[0:55:19] Trustee Middleton: I'm seeing, you know, the trustee Peterson, with all due respect, you're sort of shuffling it into the bushes.

[0:55:25] Trustee Middleton: It's become sort of a bureaucratic task to treat.

[0:55:29] Trustee Middleton: And again, if this is the way it is, then this is the way it is.

[0:55:33] Trustee Middleton: You know, I'm not arguing that point.

[0:55:36] Trustee Middleton: I just think we need to be real about where we're at and what we hope to achieve by presenting this, and certainly in this format, to Council, because this is not particularly compelling because it completely lacks context.

[0:55:49] Trustee Middleton: So, that's my comment.

[0:55:52] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris.

[0:55:54] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:55:55] Voice 6: Thank you. In my view, when it comes to any substantial change that the governance review and governance report had talked about, anything that we tried to do and have accomplished, I have seen stonewalling and stalling go on to a large degree.

[0:56:18] Voice 6: um so that's my view but um i would love to hear justin and um you know what trustee middleton was

[0:56:27] Voice 6: saying if there's another body of work or something along those lines um what would he what is he

[0:56:33] Voice 6: suggesting um is there as an alternative thank you

[0:56:41] Trustee Gedye: trustee peterson well

[0:56:47] Voice 8: just in response to

[0:56:48] Voice 8: what i've heard i'm actually not advocating um that this gets shuffled off uh anywhere um

[0:56:55] Voice 8: what i see is that this committee has uh has done some work and is at the point where we need

[0:57:03] Voice 8: to bring this back to trust council who is ultimately the decision makers on

[0:57:08] Voice 8: the next steps of the work um whether each and every item here has a champion on this committee

[0:57:17] Voice 8: is i think really not the point it's the point is is trust council's decision maker we are making

[0:57:24] Voice 8: recommendations to trust council i can't uh presuppose what trust council will do with any

[0:57:31] Voice 8: or all of these um however i don't see um i don't see an obvious uh alternative to bringing this uh

[0:57:45] Voice 8: uh these are the recommendations of the trust or of the uh the governance report

[0:57:53] Voice 8: back to trust council for decision if we don't do that then i then the only other thing that

[0:57:59] Voice 8: i can think of is is to do nothing and i don't think that's appropriate um so i i push back

[0:58:06] Voice 8: against the suggestion that um i'm somehow trying to do rebureaucratic shuffling this

[0:58:12] Voice 8: The decision is Trust Council's.

[0:58:14] Voice 8: If we don't bring a decision, a request for a decision to Trust Council, then what do we do?

[0:58:21] Voice 8: And I'm certainly open if there's other options that I'm somehow missing.

[0:58:26] Voice 8: But the decision is Trust Council.

[0:58:28] Voice 8: This is to bring it to Trust Council for a decision.

[0:58:30] Voice 8: What else is it that we do?

[0:58:33] Voice 6: Chair, I misspoke and I said Trustee Peterson's alternative.

[0:58:39] Voice 6: I meant to say Trustee Middleton was speaking about an alternative to this body of work,

[0:58:43] Voice 6: and I was wondering what the alternative might be.

[0:58:45] Voice 6: Sorry.

[0:58:45] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:58:48] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:58:51] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:58:53] Voice 10: To address Trustee Middleton's point, what we on this committee expect Trust Council

[0:59:01] Voice 10: to achieve is frankly irrelevant, because as Trustee Peters has just pointed out, this

[0:59:06] Voice 10: is a matter for a trustee to consider.

[0:59:08] Voice 10: It belongs to Trust Council to figure it out.

[0:59:11] Voice 10: and it's for the trust council to consider in a deep way because of the nature of the

[0:59:15] Voice 10: recommendations because they are pretty serious and that hasn't happened yet our individual

[0:59:20] Voice 10: skepticism that we may or may not have that trust council may not be up to being confident about it

[0:59:26] Voice 10: um well that's just a personal opinion i mean that's not relevant to our our our obligation

[0:59:33] Voice 10: here as a committee uh and our individual skepticism about anything doesn't change

[0:59:39] Voice 10: what the responsibility of Trust Council actually is

[0:59:42] Voice 10: and our responsibility to facilitate discussion

[0:59:45] Voice 10: at Trust Council level.

[0:59:47] Voice 10: What I'm hearing from Trustee Middleton

[0:59:50] Voice 10: is disappointment that what we're not proposing

[0:59:55] Voice 10: to bring before Trust Council is a piece of advocacy

[0:59:58] Voice 10: where we say...

[1:00:00] Voice 10: The governance review is right in these particulars, and we urge you to do this or that in respect of it.

[1:00:08] Voice 10: And I don't think the exercise becomes useless because we as a committee don't choose to be strong champions, to use Trustee Middleton's language, of this or that recommendation.

[1:00:22] Voice 10: Our job is to do what we can to bring some clarity to what is a difficult issue.

[1:00:27] Voice 10: And again, as Trustee Peterson has said before, and I'm afraid I'm repeating myself, this is a decision for Trust Council to make. It's a thing for it to figure out and we'll take direction from it. The advocacy thing can come up to some extent when we present the issue. But at the end of the day, it's not for us to try to pre-digest this for Trust Council. Thank you.

[1:00:50] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Borthwick.

[1:00:57] Voice 3: There we go.

[1:00:57] Voice 3: You're muted.

[1:00:58] Voice 3: Yeah, no. Yeah. And without wanting to sort of drag this on any further, I, again, I really mostly am speaking from the perspective of someone on trust council.

[1:01:13] Voice 3: You know, I've, I've, I've read bits and pieces and I'm starting to dig into some of the backstory of this committee, but I, you know, primarily my experience has been someone on trust council.

[1:01:21] Voice 3: So as someone who is, until this point, an outsider, you know, I've seen recommendations come forward. And I think what's really crucial and what I've seen, and this is not specific to governance committee, is that when a recommendation comes forward to trust counsel, one of the things that trustees really crave is context, is some support around a decision.

[1:01:42] Voice 3: decision and and decisions made on the fly and especially ones with you know large uh implications

[1:01:49] Voice 3: people want to see some support for it they want to see some data they want to see some information

[1:01:55] Voice 3: around it and and fundamentally what it comes down to is how those suggestions are are presented

[1:02:01] Voice 3: so i guess just to sort of reiterate like i think there's a lot of value in a a tour

[1:02:10] Voice 3: of the governance report for trust council i think there is value in bringing it forward and i and i

[1:02:16] Voice 3: would agree with trustee bernardo in that that is the body that that needs to make the decision

[1:02:21] Voice 3: about what the priorities are however i think there is also some value and and these again i

[1:02:28] Voice 3: don't necessarily think that we need as a committee need to come forward and be entirely unanimous

[1:02:32] Voice 3: about what these recommendations might be but i do think that if we can look at what uh what some of

[1:02:40] Voice 3: of the objectives may be and then I would again I think I would refer to the matrix which I

[1:02:45] Voice 3: really quite appreciate as a framework for for laying out information I think it's a it's a

[1:02:50] Voice 3: visually it works for my brain which is not to say it does for everyone but it I like the

[1:02:54] Voice 3: that I appreciate the work that's gone into that um I think you know bringing this forward

[1:03:00] Voice 3: presenting the report presenting the the the the the facts of the report that that was presented

[1:03:07] Voice 3: to us or the the interpretations that that are brought forward in the report is valuable for

[1:03:14] Voice 3: all of trust counsel and again i think trustees should all have read this they probably haven't

[1:03:20] Voice 3: all read it um nevertheless i think it is we should bring it forward i do think that there

[1:03:26] Voice 3: is some value in us having done that general overview also coming forward with a small raft

[1:03:32] Voice 3: of like hey here are some things that we think can be done and i think that's you know our job

[1:03:38] Voice 3: now is what are the things that could be done within our term because governance questions are

[1:03:44] Voice 3: are are an important thing they they have the difficult catch-22 of a brand new trust like

[1:03:52] Voice 3: brand new trustees can't effectively diagnose what are valuable but also if you leave it too

[1:03:58] Voice 3: too late in the term, you're making choices for, for future trust counsel, um, which we do have

[1:04:04] Voice 3: that authority, but I think it's, it's, it's valuable to bring this forward as an educational

[1:04:09] Voice 3: piece and then say, Hey, here's some things that we can do. And then we defer to trust counsel on

[1:04:15] Voice 3: whether those things are valuable, but for those things that we bring forward, it's important that

[1:04:20] Voice 3: we have that background already in the data and, and, and whatever staff reports we need to support

[1:04:25] Voice 3: those going forward so that Trust Council doesn't have to send us back to the drawing board to ask

[1:04:31] Voice 3: for more information and more context before making a decision. We say, hey, look, we did

[1:04:35] Voice 3: the work. We've asked for what we think we need to make a decision on this. Here it is. We can

[1:04:44] Voice 3: make a decision or not. And that's Trust Council's jurisdiction. But I think that would be how I would

[1:04:50] Voice 3: want to bring this forward. Bring a good review and then bring forward some options with some

[1:04:56] Voice 3: background that can be actioned or not, but have them ready to go, I

[1:05:01] Voice 3: guess, is my perspective. And

[1:05:03] Voice 3: I don't know if that's helpful, but I'm trying to synthesize sort of what I'm hearing from a lot of

[1:05:08] Voice 3: people who all clearly care about this issue. Okay,

[1:05:14] Trustee Gedye: we've got a recommendation on page 25 of

[1:05:18] Trustee Gedye: the agenda that the Governance Committee forward the attached request for decision dated April the

[1:05:22] Trustee Gedye: the 9th, 2025 to Committee of the Whole for discussion and endorsement of the recommendations

[1:05:28] Trustee Gedye: to Trust Council. Are we ready to move that recommendation? Yes.

[1:05:36] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Peterson,

[1:05:38] Trustee Gedye: you want to do the honors?

[1:05:41] Voice 8: Thank you, Chair. I move that Governance Committee forward the

[1:05:44] Voice 8: attached request for decision dated April 9th, 2025 to Committee of the Whole for discussion

[1:05:49] Voice 8: and endorsement of recommendations to trust counsel.

[1:05:53] Voice 8: Seconder?

[1:05:54] Voice 8: I second.

[1:05:57] Trustee Gedye: Is that Trustee Bernardo?

[1:05:59] Trustee Gedye: Correct.

[1:06:00] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:06:01] Trustee Gedye: Any more discussion?

[1:06:07] Trustee Gedye: I can't get full screen.

[1:06:08] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris.

[1:06:14] Voice 6: Some ideas from Trustee Borswick.

[1:06:21] Voice 6: I wonder if this should be amended to some degree.

[1:06:30] Voice 6: because you know do we do we risk

[1:06:32] Trustee Gedye: are you suggesting an amendment i'm

[1:06:36] Voice 6: discussing about it

[1:06:37] Voice 6: we've

[1:06:38] Trustee Gedye: got a motion on the floor with a seconder

[1:06:40] Voice 6: yeah we're not can't have discussion isn't that

[1:06:44] Voice 6: what this is yes

[1:06:46] Trustee Gedye: are you suggesting an amendment

[1:06:47] Voice 6: i'm not suggesting one i'm suggesting possibly

[1:06:50] Voice 6: maybe we ought to have one want to have some discussion is there you got a problem with that

[1:06:54] Voice 6: i'm

[1:06:56] Trustee Gedye: not sure what is your suggestion i'm

[1:07:01] Voice 6: concerned that just sending it off like this

[1:07:03] Voice 6: may doom it to a degree i trust council and that trustee borthwick had some ideas about

[1:07:13] Voice 6: some more specifics coming from the governance committee that's all i wanted to say

[1:07:20] Voice 6: um i don't appreciate i'm constantly getting stonewalled and shut down every time i speak

[1:07:26] Voice 6: speak practically. Trust Council here, wherever it is. Thank you.

[1:07:32] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo.

[1:07:36] Voice 10: To address the concerns expressed by Trustee Borthwick and Harris, which I think is fair

[1:07:43] Voice 10: enough, which is we want the discussion at Trust Council to be productive, and we want to do what

[1:07:52] Voice 10: we can to help it be productive again that is a separate issue from from this this recommendation

[1:08:02] Voice 10: provides a framework for the discussion how we do our part in helping lead the discussion

[1:08:09] Voice 10: that doesn't have to be part of this resolution that can be done separately in fact that dovetails

[1:08:16] Voice 10: to where chair geddy was talking about governance committee mandate priorities that kind of thing

[1:08:22] Voice 10: it's unfortunate we didn't have that discussion but we can have that discussion about how we

[1:08:28] Voice 10: present it uh at the committee the whole um well we can have it today if we need to but we could

[1:08:35] Voice 10: have it another time but just because we're moving this forward on this doesn't doesn't say anything

[1:08:40] Voice 10: about how we're going to present it so i think we should just get on with this thing and then deal

[1:08:46] Voice 10: with that issue separately because that is something that we do need to put our minds to

[1:08:51] Voice 10: one way or the other thank you

[1:08:55] Trustee Gedye: trustee burthock if i may um we started this conversation about

[1:08:59] Trustee Gedye: almost an hour ago um with my asking if um we could spend some time talking about how we conduct

[1:09:08] Trustee Gedye: the committee of the whole and we then got into um this deep discussion in terms of whether or

[1:09:17] Trustee Gedye: not there'd be contentious parts of this and um we're back to um the recommendations of whether

[1:09:27] Trustee Gedye: or not this is the content that goes in front of the the community of the whole and there is i think

[1:09:33] Trustee Gedye: another conversation uh that follows in terms of how we want to present it so um at this point

[1:09:40] Trustee Gedye: we've got a motion and a seconded motion on the floor with respect to the content that we're

[1:09:48] Trustee Gedye: suggesting go in front of the Committee of the Whole. Did you want to speak to the motion?

[1:09:57] Voice 3: I was going to say that we can absolutely approach how we bring this forward at Committee of the

[1:10:02] Voice 3: Whole after the fact. I think this needs to go forward regardless. That's echoing you and

[1:10:07] Voice 3: trustee bernardo there any

[1:10:11] Trustee Gedye: more discussion on the motion all right all those in favor

[1:10:24] Trustee Gedye: thank you hands down any opposed that carries all right so we've got some dates uh in

[1:10:44] Trustee Gedye: may well i wrote those down i can't find a note now so may the 6th was the earliest one and then

[1:10:51] Trustee Gedye: and I believe the 13th and...

[1:10:58] Voice 9: Yeah, if I can, Chair.

[1:11:00] Voice 9: Thank you.

[1:11:01] Voice 9: We'll bring that forward

[1:11:03] Voice 9: to the next executive committee agenda,

[1:11:05] Voice 9: which I think is week after next.

[1:11:08] Voice 9: And we're looking at scheduling a few items

[1:11:11] Voice 9: through those meetings,

[1:11:12] Voice 9: but I think we had tentatively looked at May 13th

[1:11:14] Voice 9: for this item.

[1:11:15] Voice 9: So we'll bring that forward for a discussion at executive

[1:11:18] Voice 9: and then Director Marder will confirm with you

[1:11:21] Voice 9: you what that timing looks like.

[1:11:24] Trustee Gedye: All right. Can everybody quickly check their calendars to make

[1:11:28] Trustee Gedye: sure that you've got May the 13th? That's a Tuesday. Anybody got a conflict, a problem with

[1:11:52] Trustee Gedye: that date? All right. Let's aim for the May the 13th then. And if that is not agreeable to the

[1:12:02] Trustee Gedye: um executive committee how will we know that uh

[1:12:08] Voice 9: we'll confirm that after the meeting director

[1:12:10] Voice 9: mario will come back and confirm that with you as

[1:12:13] Voice 9: soon as we have a decision either way um

[1:12:15] Voice 9: but i think between those few meetings that we have and that may 13th this should be in folks

[1:12:20] Voice 9: calendars i think it's scheduled from one till four so it's an afternoon meeting all

[1:12:25] Trustee Gedye: right so

[1:12:26] Trustee Gedye: that's the content and that's tentatively the date so how do you want to deal with the

[1:12:33] Trustee Gedye: presentation we have in alphabetical order we've got M recommendations and we've got actually

[1:12:47] Trustee Gedye: another one in terms of some that should be not dealt with oh trustee Borthwick yeah

[1:13:01] Voice 3: and and

[1:13:02] Voice 3: really my suggestion here and and I not to sort of delve too far into what we were just talking

[1:13:08] Voice 3: about but like to to trustees harris trustee harris's uh comment just in terms of uh you

[1:13:17] Voice 3: know feeling like this might be doomed um i i think the way that we ensure that the parts that

[1:13:22] Voice 3: matter to us aren't doomed is that we present them well and that we we bring them forward with some

[1:13:27] Voice 3: information that supports them and then there's a chance that they move forward it is going to

[1:13:32] Voice 3: be trust council's decision that is that needs to be the way that it is that's how this this

[1:13:36] Voice 3: this body works, but I think that our best chance is to arm them with, with good information on what

[1:13:43] Voice 3: the options are. And that, you know, paves the best way forward for us to actually get some stuff

[1:13:48] Voice 3: done, um, which I want to, um, for me, I mean, just, and, and again, knowing that I'm coming

[1:13:54] Voice 3: into this process later, um, but having followed it to some degree, I think the matrix is a good

[1:14:02] Voice 3: place to start. And certainly things that are urgent and high priority seem like a good place

[1:14:09] Voice 3: to start. I would also say that if there's stuff that falls within the other three boxes that are

[1:14:14] Voice 3: easy wins, those are also worth seeing if we can make sure that there's some background for.

[1:14:22] Voice 3: I know that the Secretariat discussion that was brought forward at Last Trust Council largely

[1:14:29] Voice 3: largely failed because I think there wasn't a lot of background for trustees. So trustees who

[1:14:34] Voice 3: hadn't, you know, had an in-depth consideration of that proposal in the past, hadn't had a lot

[1:14:41] Voice 3: of opportunity to sort of engage with the concept. And so at the request, as I recall from trust

[1:14:45] Voice 3: council was that, you know, that there'd be a staff report on that process. And I think that

[1:14:49] Voice 3: with some background that might well go forward, or at least it's got a fair shot, but without it,

[1:14:57] Voice 3: it that's when things die in the cradle so um i mean for me i would say let's let's start with

[1:15:03] Voice 3: the matrix and see which one so when we already know that trustee remuneration is is sort of

[1:15:08] Voice 3: moving forward and it's you know we've got some bits that are already coming coming forward for

[1:15:12] Voice 3: that yeah i i'd be keen to you know i mean prepare trust council session for review of governance

[1:15:18] Voice 3: report that's a part that we're we're working on um but yeah i think there's there's some stuff

[1:15:23] Voice 3: there to discuss. And, you know, I know that there's a thing that's come up quite a lot is

[1:15:28] Voice 3: talking about the election of executive committee and how that's structured. I know we've got some

[1:15:32] Voice 3: stuff that we're gonna be talking about with that down the line. And I think that's an important

[1:15:38] Voice 3: discussion. And depending on what options are available to us, we should, you know, maybe be

[1:15:45] Voice 3: prepared to have that be a section of discussion. Yeah, but I want to defer to you guys in general,

[1:15:51] Voice 3: But I think that's a good place to start in terms of like, let's come in armed with a staff report on as many of these topics as we want to move forward as we can.

[1:16:01] Voice 3: And as staff are able to support us with.

[1:16:07] Trustee Gedye: Christy Bernardo.

[1:16:10] Voice 10: Thank you.

[1:16:11] Voice 10: I think we do have the time, and I do think it's useful for us to discuss today, at least in a general way, how we might do our part to present the information and facilitate a fruitful discussion.

[1:16:32] Voice 10: And I think we are in a position to do that.

[1:16:36] Voice 10: First, I think we should take our lead from the document itself.

[1:16:41] Voice 10: And I think the first thing at the Committee of the Whole we'd have to do, I think, is simply explain in a fuller way why we didn't bring forward some of the recommendations, because, frankly, events have superseded it and it's essentially work that's already being covered.

[1:16:58] Voice 10: But that'll help get trust councils head around the idea of like, you know, drawing discriminations, like drawing distinctions.

[1:17:08] Voice 10: The next step, I think, would be for us to explain our matrix, to say, look, we've been working with this stuff for two and a half years.

[1:17:15] Voice 10: This is how we see it.

[1:17:16] Voice 10: This is how we ended up with this matrix of why we think this prioritization scheme makes sense.

[1:17:23] Voice 10: Trust Council doesn't have to agree, but at least they know where our starting point is.

[1:17:29] Voice 10: And then the third piece, I think, is we go through the recommendations one by one, and we don't just throw it out into the table. I think it's incumbent on us to do something along the lines of what we did as a committee at the beginning of this term, which is as we take each of the recommendations that are up for discussion, as we take them one by one, when we introduce them, we talk about the strengths and weaknesses of the recommendations.

[1:17:57] Voice 10: Because one of the interesting and difficult things about this governance review is it presents a lot of conclusions based on interviews, but it doesn't provide very much analysis, operational analysis, from an area of expertise.

[1:18:15] Voice 10: It simply presents conclusions.

[1:18:17] Voice 10: So I think to be helpful to Trust Council, Trust Council needs some analysis about the merits of these different recommendations.

[1:18:25] Voice 10: recommendations. And I think we're in a position to provide some analysis to say, look, for example,

[1:18:32] Voice 10: the executive election thing, there is a limit to what we can do. I think we should be upfront

[1:18:38] Voice 10: about that, that this is almost completely dominated by legislative authority. We have to

[1:18:44] Voice 10: work within that framework. Within that framework, our view is we can do A, B, or C, or something

[1:18:50] Voice 10: like that. That's just one example. And then as we take each of the other recommendations,

[1:18:54] Voice 10: We provide some analysis. It's simply about the merits, you know, and that will, I think, help shape the discussion. Thank you.

[1:19:07] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Peterson.

[1:19:09] Voice 8: Thank you, Chair. I'm going to defer to Director Barler, who's had his hand up, but I think he can't use his electronic hand at the moment, but I would like to speak afterwards.

[1:19:17] Voice 8: words thank

[1:19:19] Trustee Gedye: you i'm sorry director merler i cannot see i've got half of my screen is the agenda that

[1:19:26] Trustee Gedye: i can scroll through and the other half is just got a few people at the top go ahead please yeah

[1:19:31] Voice 1: no problem thank you um christy peterson just wanted to maybe um think a little bit about

[1:19:39] Voice 1: and i know you're trying to get there how to um use the three hours that you have there's 15

[1:19:45] Voice 1: recommendations so I don't think you can really get into the the details behind you know why those

[1:19:54] Voice 1: recommendations are there or why they should go forward so maybe what I think you need to think

[1:19:59] Voice 1: about is your rationale for advancing them and I think the rationale is partly practicality that

[1:20:08] Voice 1: there is something there that can be done we don't know exactly what that is but the committee felt

[1:20:15] Voice 1: that there's something there that can be done um and the ones that you have put on hold or i said

[1:20:21] Voice 1: don't work on i think the rationale is given for those fairly well that there's some other processes

[1:20:27] Voice 1: in play and you may want to figure out find out what those processes are before you advance them

[1:20:35] Voice 1: so you know i'm thinking chair you might want to try not to get into too much detail about well

[1:20:41] Voice 1: well, exactly what are we going to do for each of these?

[1:20:44] Voice 1: And instead, I just said, no,

[1:20:47] Voice 1: what we want to do is that these are the focus areas.

[1:20:51] Voice 1: This is things that we think can,

[1:20:53] Voice 1: there's work we can do within our powers.

[1:20:58] Voice 1: So yeah, there's some legislative things that limit us,

[1:21:01] Voice 1: but there's things that we can do internally

[1:21:05] Voice 1: to improve things.

[1:21:07] Voice 1: And this is what this,

[1:21:09] Voice 1: so really what he's saying to council is,

[1:21:11] Voice 1: if you agree with these they'll get put on the list and we'll start working on them staff can

[1:21:16] Voice 1: work on some of the more operational ones which we've identified and then there's others that

[1:21:22] Voice 1: the committee could work on with staff so if you think about it that way and try not to get bogged

[1:21:28] Voice 1: down into why those recommendations came and are in the 2022 governance review and just focus on

[1:21:37] Voice 1: um that will be explored down the road a little bit more to understand them better i'm not sure

[1:21:43] Voice 1: if that's helpful but i just wanted to put that out there you've only got three hours

[1:21:46] Voice 1: so and 15 recommendations okay thanks hopefully

[1:21:51] Trustee Gedye: a quorum trustee peterson yeah

[1:21:56] Voice 8: i'm just looking at

[1:21:57] Voice 8: the uh the list and and reflecting that i mean i feel i could speak to to any one of these

[1:22:04] Voice 8: In terms of the use of our time, though, most of what we're asking Trust Council to do is requesting staff to do work here.

[1:22:15] Voice 8: The one exception that has some potential to get, to engender some open-ended debate is B, which is that Trust Council consider whether any work on Recommendation 3 committee membership is warranted.

[1:22:36] Voice 8: um other than that i i i mean structurally i'm not sure how uh other members of the committee

[1:22:48] Voice 8: feel whether we want to um uh assign or volunteer to speak to any of these or just be prepared

[1:22:56] Voice 8: individually to speak to them um this committee's done we did a lot of deliberation at our previous

[1:23:04] Voice 8: previous meeting um to get these here for this rfd so um i mean personally i feel prepared

[1:23:14] Voice 8: to speak to to the rationale behind any of them but um uh again as as director marler said we've

[1:23:25] Voice 8: we've we're looking at a three-hour window i think it's also reasonable and uh for us to

[1:23:31] Voice 8: recognize that if that three-hour window is not sufficient that we may need to we may need to

[1:23:38] Voice 8: support more than one opportunity for discussion um so let's i wouldn't want to get too um i don't

[1:23:47] Voice 8: want to be profligate with our with our available time but i also don't think that we need to be

[1:23:53] Voice 8: overly concerned that we must accomplish everything in in one three-hour session

[1:23:58] Voice 8: um let's be realistic about the the reality is is there is no knowing uh what appetite

[1:24:06] Voice 8: uh trustees may have for discussion on any given item um sometimes sometimes things that seem like

[1:24:15] Voice 8: they'll be take a lot don't take much and conversely the otherwise so um but those are

[1:24:21] Voice 8: my thoughts

[1:24:21] Trustee Gedye: sorry would it be helpful to go through each of these and see if there's

[1:24:25] Trustee Gedye: if we can assign them and um have some idea of the kinds of things that we need we think

[1:24:32] Trustee Gedye: should be highlighted when they're being presented uh

[1:24:38] Voice 8: i mean that's at the will of the committee um

[1:24:42] Trustee Gedye: maybe i

[1:24:43] Voice 8: i think i think that um uh i mean my perspective is that the give based on the work

[1:24:52] Voice 8: we've already done uh i feel like i could speak to any one of these but um which

[1:24:58] Trustee Gedye: ones do you want

[1:24:58] Trustee Gedye: to speak to but

[1:25:00] Voice 8: but what i was going to say is whether whether we need to assign or just uh um

[1:25:08] Voice 8: have all committee members essentially commit to be prepared um it's it's an open question for this

[1:25:16] Voice 8: committee i

[1:25:17] Voice 8: don't want i i i'm not trying to

[1:25:19] Trustee Gedye: i think it would help if we introduced and maybe

[1:25:22] Trustee Gedye: don't lead the conversation but to give some background and some um description of each one

[1:25:30] Trustee Gedye: trustee bernardo i

[1:25:34] Voice 10: just wanted to voice my support for director marler's um overview um the approach

[1:25:40] Voice 10: that um what he's outlined i think makes a lot of sense which is it's grounded in practicality

[1:25:46] Voice 10: which is that many of these things are operational, and in order to make a decision on a recommendation that is principally operational,

[1:26:02] Voice 10: we need input from the staff.

[1:26:04] Voice 10: The Trust Council needs input from the staff on it.

[1:26:07] Voice 10: So the discussion on those recommendations should be focused in the direction of saying,

[1:26:14] Voice 10: saying, okay, this is what we think is feasible, but we need staff to come back to us to tell us

[1:26:21] Voice 10: what the parameters really are of the decision. That could be pretty straightforward because it's

[1:26:25] Voice 10: basically lobbying the issue over to staff to do some preliminary research. So that could take care

[1:26:32] Voice 10: of a big chunk of them. The rest of them probably do require some introduction and discussion.

[1:26:38] Voice 10: discussion uh but you know along the way you know in the general way that director marler has

[1:26:45] Voice 10: pointed out i think would be very helpful i think it's a helpful way of structuring the

[1:26:48] Voice 10: the meeting i am um i think we should be careful about just simply assigning these things to people

[1:26:54] Voice 10: because you

[1:26:55] Trustee Patrick: know

[1:26:57] Voice 10: and you've yeah put it this way you could assign something to me and then you may

[1:27:03] Voice 10: not like what i'm saying and that people might construe is coming from the committee which is

[1:27:07] Voice 10: is not necessarily the case.

[1:27:09] Voice 10: So I think we have to do more than simply assign it.

[1:27:14] Voice 10: I think we have to identify which ones will benefit

[1:27:18] Voice 10: from having some input from the governance committee

[1:27:23] Voice 10: at a kind of a policy level.

[1:27:25] Voice 10: And that's separate from the ones where the staff

[1:27:27] Voice 10: are gonna do more of the operational work.

[1:27:29] Voice 10: But I think

[1:27:30] Trustee Gedye: the general-

[1:27:30] Trustee Gedye: Which do you

[1:27:30] Trustee Gedye: think are operational

[1:27:31] Voice 10: and which ones

[1:27:32] Trustee Gedye: do you think would benefit

[1:27:33] Trustee Gedye: from a recommendation?

[1:27:34] Trustee Gedye: recommendation well

[1:27:36] Voice 10: i'd like to hear from director marler again because uh uh you know uh staff's

[1:27:42] Voice 10: view about what's more opera about what's operational it's worth a lot more than my

[1:27:46] Voice 10: view about it thank you yeah would you like me to come

[1:27:54] Voice 11: here okay

[1:27:56] Voice 1: yeah okay so the ones to me that

[1:28:00] Voice 1: are operational and more things that uh kind of make sense that we should just do them anyway

[1:28:06] Voice 1: way um and so a for example is revising the process for election of the executive committee

[1:28:13] Voice 1: we've heard a lot about that one and there are things we can do within the legislation how we

[1:28:19] Voice 1: use that you know the three-day uh trust council meeting for example also information we provide

[1:28:26] Voice 1: up front uh to potential delegates uh in advance so we can certainly work very closely with

[1:28:33] Voice 1: a committee on developing that. So to me, that one is what I would consider more operational.

[1:28:43] Voice 1: Looking at B, how it establishes committee work programs, this is another,

[1:28:50] Voice 1: it's more administrative. But I think it's got a strong political side to it.

[1:28:58] Voice 1: not not purely administrative there's an interface there and and then if you look at

[1:29:06] Voice 1: C same thing support their advice so this is how committees present support their advice to trust

[1:29:14] Voice 1: council that one I think more is political less administrative but definitely something that

[1:29:22] Voice 1: I think council or a committee could have a look at and we could make some changes so that

[1:29:29] Voice 1: it's again operational in the sense this is about how we do something presently and questioning the

[1:29:36] Voice 1: way we do it and asking is there a better way or to do this kind of thing um d definitely i think

[1:29:45] Voice 1: that one would consider that to be operational this we we provide communications materials anyway

[1:29:50] Voice 1: in advance of the election this is just uh heightening that saying let's have a really

[1:29:57] Voice 1: really close look at what are we providing.

[1:30:00] Voice 1: so this I think would be a really good one that would just definitely be done anyway in some

[1:30:06] Voice 1: respect same goes for e I don't need to comment too much on that one I would say f requires some

[1:30:19] Voice 1: work I wouldn't say that's operational I mean there could be an operational function to this

[1:30:25] Voice 1: And what I mean by that is the CEO, myself, and the executive coordinator all provide corporate secretary functions to Trust Council.

[1:30:36] Voice 1: So certainly we could review how we do that within the organization.

[1:30:42] Voice 1: And is there a better way to make that work?

[1:30:45] Voice 1: So, again, if you're looking at using the current staffing and asking, is this the best way to provide?

[1:30:53] Voice 1: or are we providing the right kind of support to council that's I think is definitely worth

[1:31:00] Voice 1: reviewing and the CEO might want to jump in on that because I know you know looking at

[1:31:07] Voice 1: her staff support council is one of his primary roles so that one I think could be considered

[1:31:16] Voice 1: it operational too in in that respect um where it's not operational is where you're looking at

[1:31:24] Voice 1: something completely different to uh the current model like um something external something

[1:31:31] Voice 1: nobody's really thought about so kind of thinking outside the box there can

[1:31:36] Trustee Gedye: i interrupt you there

[1:31:37] Trustee Gedye: yeah from um cao brony sure

[1:31:42] Voice 9: thanks chair yeah i think i think that's a good example of

[1:31:45] Voice 9: of the comment I was going to make was it'll be what you want to probably try to avoid for this

[1:31:52] Voice 9: committee the whole discussion is going deep on solutions to any of these recommendations right

[1:31:59] Voice 9: the way it's presented and that you've just approved to bring forward is really to get

[1:32:03] Voice 9: endorsement to direct work to be done on these recommendations and so essentially asking committee

[1:32:10] Voice 9: all do we agree that these are the ones where we want to focus our energy and priority both

[1:32:15] Voice 9: of staff and trust council and then as trustee bernardo has acknowledged a lot of them would be

[1:32:20] Voice 9: then staff and the executive committee and others to go forward and do some work and bring back

[1:32:24] Voice 9: recommendations and options um also conscious of you know just sort of timelines and preparing for

[1:32:30] Voice 9: a for a may meeting where i think staff can provide some value in anticipation in terms of

[1:32:37] Voice 9: material and assessment for that may meeting would be assessment of and this is you know kind of what

[1:32:43] Voice 9: director martin was speaking to the extent of impact so some of these as he mentioned are

[1:32:49] Voice 9: things that we would probably be doing anyway don't require significant policy change or budgetary

[1:32:55] Voice 9: aspects whereas something like the corporate secretary function depending on how that was

[1:33:01] Voice 9: framed could have significant policy and budget implications in contrast to something like how

[1:33:06] Voice 9: we prepare for communications around election which operationally will deal with it maybe just

[1:33:11] Voice 9: be lean in a little bit more so we could provide a bit of that analysis for each of these that

[1:33:17] Voice 9: context for how big of a lift is this involved should that influence uh council's decision on

[1:33:23] Voice 9: whether or not to pursue work on that particular piece i mean so i could say i think there's there

[1:33:29] Voice 9: are differences in terms of the scope of impact of these um and what would be required to implement

[1:33:34] Voice 9: them and that's probably an assessment that we could do for you in advance of the committee

[1:33:38] Voice 9: as well thank

[1:33:39] Trustee Gedye: you back to you director marler and you're mute yeah

[1:33:49] Voice 1: thank you um so just quickly i

[1:33:51] Voice 1: don't want to go into too much details but gh and i those to me become projects um because

[1:33:58] Voice 1: you really want to have a look at doing something a little bit differently i evaluating maybe looking

[1:34:04] Voice 1: for gaps and providing some recommendations on how things could be done differently

[1:34:10] Voice 1: differently so gh and i to me would probably be a little bit more work i would not consider

[1:34:16] Voice 1: these things that would be just doing that as a matter of course um the same goes for j really

[1:34:26] Voice 1: uh we we are working with the um conservancy and there are you know we've done some work on this

[1:34:34] Voice 1: uh but this could take that to a different level if you want to explore um better integration

[1:34:41] Voice 1: between the uh um conservancy and uh and trust council and then k are the ones where we just

[1:34:50] Voice 1: indicate the rationale for not advancing them let's just put that in there so mostly it's to

[1:34:56] Voice 1: do with the request to the province um yeah um an l or it says whether any work on recommendations

[1:35:06] Voice 1: three which is committee memberships needs to be undertaken i think uh the rationale for this one

[1:35:14] Voice 1: is um you've done quite a bit of work on your committees like with the creation of the governance

[1:35:19] Voice 1: committee uh i'm not sure if there's a if this would be considered a priority so that one you

[1:35:26] Voice 1: might just want to um kind of question with council is you know do you want to is this a

[1:35:32] Voice 1: priority given everything else that's um uh recommended to occur i agree with the ceo we

[1:35:40] Voice 1: can put together a um a report uh generally if you look down on this document uh you looked at

[1:35:48] Voice 1: at this last time and that's the appendix which has the recommendation and then it's got a report

[1:35:57] Voice 1: commentary on recommendations what we could do is add to this essentially to indicate the

[1:36:06] Voice 1: implications of the governance committee's recommendation and some of the comments we've

[1:36:11] Voice 1: made today we can put those in here and then this document you could use this as a means for

[1:36:18] Voice 1: guiding the discussion uh so if you wanted to so what i would do is not not have the recommendation

[1:36:25] Voice 1: of the um governance committee but instead have this table set up with the recommendation

[1:36:34] Voice 1: sorry not going to be not have the recommendation of the governance review from 2022 which is what

[1:36:40] Voice 1: this is right here that you're seeing but instead have the recommendation of the governance committee

[1:36:47] Voice 1: with this information provided uh still and then the commentary would provide that implications or

[1:36:56] Voice 1: the uh this you know what the staff feel how this fits in with um um work that would probably be

[1:37:04] Voice 1: advanced anyway and then you could probably use that to guide your discussion you could have this

[1:37:11] Voice 1: up on the screen and you could you know you got three hours and 15 or 13 i think recommendations

[1:37:17] Voice 1: so you could do you know five an hour and then have a little bit of time at the end to wrap up

[1:37:25] Voice 1: just one thought okay i'll pass it back to the chair thank you i

[1:37:32] Trustee Gedye: think it would be helpful uh

[1:37:34] Trustee Gedye: with respect to the report that's now on the screen if there were maybe color-coded both the

[1:37:41] Trustee Gedye: review and the recommendation of this committee. So it's recommendation number one and it's

[1:37:50] Trustee Gedye: we can the council can see both and then there can be the commentary and I think we're down

[1:37:58] Trustee Gedye: for some reason we're down to 13. So if we've bunched those together in K in terms of no

[1:38:05] Trustee Gedye: further work, then that gives us a little bit more time.

[1:38:12] Trustee Gedye: It seems to me too that if a lot of this is operational and Trust Council agrees that

[1:38:19] Trustee Gedye: it's staff working with this committee and the executive committee, that then the next

[1:38:25] Trustee Gedye: conversation is the priorities in terms of the workload for staff and what Council and

[1:38:33] Trustee Gedye: And this committee would recommend how we would prioritize it.

[1:38:40] Trustee Gedye: So low-hanging fruit or more important.

[1:38:45] Trustee Gedye: Any discussion with respect to Director Marler's recommendation?

[1:38:58] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Borthwick?

[1:39:06] Trustee Gedye: You're mute, I think.

[1:39:09] Voice 3: All right, there we go.

[1:39:11] Voice 3: Yeah, no, just that I think that makes sense to me.

[1:39:15] Voice 3: That's a way to go forward.

[1:39:16] Voice 3: But I'm interested to hear what the rest of the committee think.

[1:39:19] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo?

[1:39:21] Voice 10: uh let's do it the way david suggests thank you all

[1:39:29] Trustee Gedye: right anybody else

[1:39:30] Trustee Gedye: all right so then um are we going to separate out are we going to go through them one by one

[1:39:50] Trustee Gedye: as they're presented here in terms of the recommendations and or somehow highlight

[1:39:55] Trustee Gedye: light uh that certain ones are operational some are potential project and um how do you want to

[1:40:13] Trustee Gedye: prioritize them uh

[1:40:15] Voice 3: director director marler has his hand up yes

[1:40:19] Voice 1: apologies yeah chad there's two

[1:40:25] Voice 1: ways you can do it you could go through each of the recommendations as you did at the last meeting

[1:40:30] Voice 1: what I could do if you wanted to do it that way is under the recommendation put the governance

[1:40:37] Voice 1: committee's recommendation highlight it in some way along with the staff commentary and then keep

[1:40:42] Voice 1: this report commentary on recommendations at the bottom that comes out of the governance committee

[1:40:47] Voice 1: report so you could do that for each one the alternative to that is we just have this as the

[1:40:56] Voice 1: governance committee recommendation first and then the governance the government report

[1:41:01] Voice 1: recommendations that it refers to which is usually just one of them underneath that so either way i

[1:41:08] Voice 1: think work quite as well and it lets you go through them and um you know you can kind of

[1:41:15] Voice 1: take counsel through what you did um and then just see if they endorse that or if they've got any

[1:41:21] Voice 1: any other ways of thinking about it.

[1:41:24] Voice 1: But I think it's important that your recommendation to council be up at the front so that they

[1:41:30] Voice 1: can see what the governance committee is recommending.

[1:41:33] Voice 1: And I think that will help to focus.

[1:41:37] Voice 1: Really, then it's a matter of does council agree with the governance committee?

[1:41:41] Voice 1: And if it does, you can move on.

[1:41:43] Voice 1: If it doesn't, you can have a discussion and council, you know, as a committee of the whole

[1:41:48] Voice 1: might want to recommend to council something different and you can have that discussion

[1:41:52] Voice 1: right

[1:41:53] Trustee Gedye: all right any comments on that do we need a motion or is that just um request to staff

[1:42:02] Trustee Gedye: director marler do you need anything formal oh sorry trustee peterson i

[1:42:13] Voice 7: just wanted to say i

[1:42:14] Voice 7: support the approach uh that director marler just outlined there i

[1:42:20] Trustee Gedye: don't see any objections to it

[1:42:22] Trustee Gedye: all right do you director marley would you like a motion yeah

[1:42:26] Voice 1: just uh just a motion for staff to um

[1:42:30] Voice 1: draft up a um an outline for the committee of the whole with um um the governance committee

[1:42:39] Voice 1: recommendations and then now i don't think you're meeting again before the committee of the whole

[1:42:45] Voice 1: so one of two options is the first option is the chair if the committee of the whole

[1:42:51] Voice 1: sorry community governance committee could authorize the chair to just review and approve

[1:42:58] Voice 1: the documentation it's going to be up on the screen and i can then just work with the chair

[1:43:04] Voice 1: or alternatively you can have a special meeting if you need to see it before but we don't really

[1:43:09] Voice 1: have a lot of time. Thanks.

[1:43:11] Trustee Gedye: All right. Any preference? Any problem with my working with

[1:43:18] Trustee Gedye: Director Marler to basically add the yellow highlighted recommendations of this committee

[1:43:25] Trustee Gedye: into this document that's now on screen? Trustee Bernardo?

[1:43:33] Voice 10: I don't have a problem with that. In

[1:43:34] Voice 10: fact, I think it's a practical way to go. As Director Marler pointed out, time's limited here.

[1:43:38] Voice 10: So I think the practical thing would be for staff to develop a, I don't know what the term is, kind of a refined presentation copy of what's before us and to work with you, Chair, to make that happen.

[1:43:56] Voice 10: I think that makes a lot of sense to do it that way.

[1:43:58] Voice 10: way. In terms of the resolution that does the job for staff, I would hope that perhaps

[1:44:07] Voice 10: staff could actually quickly craft exactly the language on that for us on the fly, unfortunately.

[1:44:13] Voice 10: I'm having trouble trying to figure out exactly how to word a thing like that. But if staff

[1:44:17] Voice 10: could, you know, after we're done with this, you know, perhaps we could table it briefly

[1:44:22] Voice 10: so staff could just put together a resolution for us and then we could come back and vote

[1:44:26] Voice 10: on it. Thank you.

[1:44:30] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Barthwick?

[1:44:32] Voice 3: Yeah, I was going to say, I quickly noted down what Director Marler had just said, but I don't know if, which was basically, and I won't make this, just check with David that this is correct, but that we would be requesting staff to draft, to create a draft outline of governance committee recommendations and authorize Chair Getty to approve the draft.

[1:44:54] Voice 3: Does that capture what you need?

[1:44:58] Trustee Gedye: Sounds good.

[1:45:01] Voice 3: Does that sound

[1:45:01] Voice 3: good, Director Marler?

[1:45:02] Trustee Gedye: uh

[1:45:04] Voice 3: yeah it does okay yeah so then i well i'll move it properly i didn't i that was a speed run i

[1:45:11] Voice 3: don't want to make uh robert robert's job harder uh i move that the governance committee requests

[1:45:20] Voice 3: that well there we go request staff to draft an outline for committee of the whole uh of the

[1:45:25] Voice 3: government's committee recommendations and authorized government committee chair

[1:45:28] Voice 3: getty to endorse those recommendations good job robert barlow as always yeah

[1:45:37] Voice 1: that's that's perfect

[1:45:39] Voice 1: trustee

[1:45:41] Trustee Gedye: peterson your hand is up uh

[1:45:43] Voice 8: to second okay

[1:45:45] Trustee Gedye: thank you any more discussion all right

[1:45:50] Trustee Gedye: all those in favor any opposed all right that's carried thank you all right so we're coming up

[1:46:06] Trustee Gedye: quarter to 12. We don't have a lot left on the agenda. Sorry, is there a closed meeting? I didn't

[1:46:19] Trustee Gedye: think there was. There is? All right. So how about we take a lunch break and a bathroom break and

[1:46:31] Trustee Gedye: come back in half an hour. Okay, so that would be a quarter after 12. All right. Thank you all. See you then.

[2:16:08] Voice 11: Are you there, Robert?

[2:16:12] Voice 4: Yes, I am, Chair.

[2:16:14] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[2:16:14] Trustee Gedye: Can we get started again?

[2:16:17] Voice 4: It does appear that you have quorum one, two, three, four, five.

[2:16:21] Voice 4: Yes.

[2:16:26] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[2:16:26] Trustee Gedye: Call this meeting to order again.

[2:16:30] Trustee Gedye: And we just finished section seven of the agenda.

[2:16:36] Trustee Gedye: So we've got section eight, new business, and there isn't any.

[2:16:39] Trustee Gedye: The work program, between now and August, when the next governance committee meeting is meeting, there's the Committee of the Whole in May, assuming that that date is confirmed, and June the 17th to 19th for Trust Council.

[2:17:00] Trustee Gedye: Council. So other than the Committee of the Whole meeting, I'm not sure that there's any changes to

[2:17:06] Trustee Gedye: our work program. And we can revise based on the feedback that we get from Council at the next

[2:17:12] Trustee Gedye: meeting. Does that make sense to everybody? All right. So the next meeting then is scheduled for

[2:17:26] Trustee Gedye: For August the 13th, 2025, from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m.

[2:17:32] Trustee Gedye: And we have next the closed meeting.

[2:17:37] Trustee Gedye: So the formal announcement is that the meeting will be closed to the public

[2:17:41] Trustee Gedye: in accordance with Community Charter Part 4, Division 3, Section 90, Sub 1, Sub I,

[2:17:47] Trustee Gedye: for the receipt of advice that's subject to solicitor-client privilege,

[2:17:50] Trustee Gedye: including communications necessary for that purpose,

[2:17:53] Trustee Gedye: and the recorder and the staff shall attend this meeting trustee peterson i

[2:18:01] Voice 7: just wanted to check

[2:18:02] Voice 7: in with staff um whether uh whether resolution required is required to form um to forward the

[2:18:10] Voice 7: work program report to june trust

[2:18:13] Voice 8: council for uh for adoption or if that'll just happen as a matter

[2:18:19] Voice 8: of course yeah

[2:18:20] Voice 1: ever may through chair yes yeah that would be appropriate just to make sure it's

[2:18:25] Voice 1: not forgotten and just while i've got the floor at the closed meeting that will need to be a

[2:18:30] Voice 1: resolution to close the meeting and the wording is on under section 11 there okay thanks all right

[2:18:40] Trustee Gedye: so backtracking then to the um work program do you want to make a motion trustee peterson

[2:18:48] Trustee Gedye: certainly

[2:18:49] Voice 7: i move that governance committee uh forward its work program report to trust council

[2:18:56] Voice 7: or approval.

[2:18:59] Trustee Gedye: The next quarterly meeting, which is June the 17th to 19th. Okay. Trustee Borthwick?

[2:19:08] Trustee Gedye: Seconded. Thank you. Any discussion? All those in favor? I can't split my screen multiple times,

[2:19:24] Trustee Gedye: but that looks like three of us. Four. Five. That's enough. All right. Any opposed? That

[2:19:40] Trustee Gedye: carries. All right, so I've read out the notice under section 11. If that is a

[2:19:49] Trustee Gedye: resolution, without repeating that, I will suggest that as a motion. Any seconder

[2:20:00] Trustee Gedye: for that please? Trustee Bernardo, your hand is up a second. Can I get a

[2:20:12] Trustee Gedye: seconder please? Trustee Borthwick, thank you. Any opposed? All right, then I'm going

[2:20:21] Trustee Gedye: going to assume that everybody's in favor and we will move into a closed meeting chair

[2:20:29] Voice 4: i will just

[2:20:30] Voice 4: need to stop the recording and and stop the live streaming