Denman LTC regular meeting, 23 June 2026

[0:00:00] Chair Maude (probable): We have Larissa Chadwick, planner, joining us today.

[0:00:05] Chair Maude (probable): We have Warren Dingman,

[0:00:06] Chair Maude (probable): the manager of Biola Enforcement, joining us today.

[0:00:09] Chair Maude (probable): And we have Margo Thermamelis, I forget your name,

[0:00:13] Chair Maude (probable): joining us today, also planner.

[0:00:14] Chair Maude (probable): Thank you very much.

[0:00:16] Chair Maude (probable): Oh, and also Lisa Muller, the meditator.

[0:00:18] Chair Maude (probable): Thank you, Sam, you're my best friend ever.

[0:00:23] Chair Maude (probable): So, this meeting is official forum for your local testimony

[0:00:25] Chair Maude (probable): to make decisions about land use planning matters

[0:00:27] Chair Maude (probable): and discuss relevant business.

[0:00:28] Chair Maude (probable): I want to add this place will be good despite the fact that if I will staff

[0:00:32] Chair Maude (probable): are in their own homes our staff right to a safe and respectful workplace so

[0:00:36] Chair Maude (probable): before us we have an agenda I'm suggesting a reorganization agenda to

[0:00:41] Chair Maude (probable): accommodate a large audience we have here so what I'd like to do is move the

[0:00:47] Chair Maude (probable): delegation to be the first part of the agenda and the second will be the public

[0:00:55] Chair Maude (probable): participation and then we'll move on to our other business so with your consent we can adjust the

[0:01:00] Chair Maude (probable): agenda that way anything else for the agenda everybody's cool i think it's big enough

[0:01:06] Chair Maude (probable): big enough so what we'll do is we'll start we'll ask the delegation to make their presentation

[0:01:11] Chair Maude (probable): first um and we'll sort of merge from that into public participation if that works for everybody

[0:01:19] Chair Maude (probable): right so delegation where are you i

[0:01:23] Member of the public: think that's me

[0:01:24] Member of the public: there we are welcome thank

[0:01:26] Member of the public: you very much what

[0:01:26] Member of the public: would you like me then for the uh you're

[0:01:28] Member of the public: flying right where you are you're up here you can sit

[0:01:31] Member of the public: you can stand whatever works

[0:01:32] Member of the public: i'd like to stand because it's so many people should is it okay

[0:01:35] Member of the public: with you advice i don't need to have my family over

[0:01:38] Trustee Borthwick: here you can stand in front of the man that'd

[0:01:40] Trustee Borthwick: be nice as

[0:01:41] Member of the public: long as it's

[0:01:42] Trustee Borthwick: not uh

[0:01:44] Member of the public: blocking folks here thank you so much for the time to talk to you my

[0:01:48] Member of the public: My name is Stephanie Slater.

[0:01:49] Member of the public: I am here representing a diverse group of Denman Island residents

[0:01:53] Member of the public: who have some concerns about the scope of development

[0:01:56] Member of the public: taking place at 2325 Northwest Road.

[0:02:00] Member of the public: I'm going to condense the written submission we gave you

[0:02:04] Member of the public: to maintain the five-minute boundary of the presentation.

[0:02:10] Member of the public: The BC Elks Club used to own this property

[0:02:13] Member of the public: where they ran free children's camps,

[0:02:16] Member of the public: apparently with a non-conforming use designation now it appears that the new owners of the property

[0:02:21] Member of the public: are misinterpreting that designation as a result they're carrying out a speedy and large-scale

[0:02:28] Member of the public: development without going through processes that some of us believe are required by governing

[0:02:35] Member of the public: bodies such as the islands trust so we hope the trust will ensure that these processes are

[0:02:41] Member of the public: are followed. As background, the property on Northwest Road is designated part of the

[0:02:47] Member of the public: Agricultural Land Reserve. It was subdivided and a 35-acre parcel was sold to the BC Elks

[0:02:53] Member of the public: in the late 1950s. The Elks eventually created Elk Haven Children's Camp with a mandate to provide

[0:03:01] Member of the public: a free retreat camp for non-profit children's groups and also some other non-profit and First

[0:03:07] Member of the public: Nations groups. The property was sold privately in June of 2025 to a numbered corporation and a

[0:03:14] Member of the public: non-profit society was registered last August as Camp Denman Society and we just learned yesterday

[0:03:20] Member of the public: by the way that this is what's called a member-funded society so that means it's not a

[0:03:24] Member of the public: charitable organization. These societies function for the benefit of their members, a designation

[0:03:31] Member of the public: often used for private golf clubs and country clubs and the like.

[0:03:35] Member of the public: Now, according to Camp Denman's

[0:03:38] Trustee Borthwick: website,

[0:03:48] Member of the public: the proponents plan to operate what they call

[0:03:50] Member of the public: a digital AI-assisted multi-studio campus that will accommodate all ages and offer a combination

[0:03:57] Member of the public: and food services. So construction began last fall to convert the original main building into

[0:04:03] Member of the public: studios. Seven large glamping style tents are also being built on cement platforms with many

[0:04:11] Member of the public: more under construction, most of them less than 10 meters from adjacent property lines.

[0:04:16] Member of the public: The concrete pads are approximately 10 by 5 meters and have underground power,

[0:04:21] Member of the public: power, heat, air conditioning, and digital services.

[0:04:24] Member of the public: We note that the ALR designation requires that any sleeping units,

[0:04:29] Member of the public: including tents, are to be set back a minimum of 30 meters from any lot line.

[0:04:35] Member of the public: And we also note that ALR conditions specify a maximum

[0:04:39] Member of the public: of four accommodation or sleeping units.

[0:04:42] Member of the public: And these are only allowed if the property has farm classification,

[0:04:47] Member of the public: which

[0:04:47] Planner Thomaidis: we understand Camp

[0:04:48] Member of the public: Denman does not.

[0:04:49] Member of the public: on. Other significant construction carried out include the installation of two transformers with

[0:04:56] Member of the public: combined 1200 amp service, installation of a large septic field, road upgrades, and the installation

[0:05:04] Member of the public: of an anchored raft dock in W1 conservation water. So to summarize concerns, how can the

[0:05:14] Member of the public: the property's non-conforming use designation continue to apply to a project that clearly

[0:05:20] Member of the public: and significantly exceeds the scope of the original use of the property.

[0:05:26] Member of the public: And this massive infusion of capital in Camp Denman is far beyond anything that a camp

[0:05:31] Member of the public: operation would seem to warrant in terms of potential revenue.

[0:05:36] Member of the public: So this raises questions about the real goals and scale plan for the project.

[0:05:40] Member of the public: But regardless, the large size of the stated development plans prompts questions about the potential impact on island resources.

[0:05:50] Member of the public: The shared aquifer is a particular concern.

[0:05:54] Member of the public: Given the large amount of water that will be needed to support Camp Denman's operations, the threat to the existing water supply appears to be imminent.

[0:06:03] Member of the public: We know that Denman Island Land Use Bylaw 186 says lots in the ALR, where a secondary dwelling or agritourism accommodation uses plan, must prove that there is an adequate supply of water and sewage disposal capacity for the use.

[0:06:20] Member of the public: But these rules don't appear to have been applied, so we wonder how and when the Islands Trust will enforce them.

[0:06:27] Member of the public: And we also wonder, how are the different regulatory bodies going to assert their authority over the aspects of this development that fall under their jurisdiction?

[0:06:38] Member of the public: And what process is in place to support the coordination and cooperation of these agencies, which includes the Agricultural Land Commission, BC Archaeology Branch, and BC Assessment?

[0:06:49] Member of the public: Archaeology Branch, because of Comox First Nation, completed a cultural heritage investigation last fall that identified two new areas of potential, as they're called, on this property, quote, where works should not be conducted without further provincial and KFN permits, unquote.

[0:07:09] Member of the public: quote and bc assessment because as mentioned properties must be classified as a farm under

[0:07:15] Member of the public: the bc assessment act to undertake agritourism uses such as camp denman appears to be planning

[0:07:21] Member of the public: and the trust's bylaw enforcement officer said he doesn't believe camp denman has his designation

[0:07:27] Member of the public: so in conclusion i just want to say that members of our very ad hoc group and certainly other

[0:07:35] Member of the public: dendon islanders have long supported the elk haven children's camps and and in general the idea

[0:07:41] Member of the public: of children's programs and and other activities that support the socio-economic well-being

[0:07:47] Member of the public: of this community um but that support is contingent on the activity sustaining our

[0:07:53] Member of the public: environment and adhering to the health safety bylaws owning and permitting processes that

[0:08:00] Member of the public: that are required of all property owners.

[0:08:02] Member of the public: And serious questions exist

[0:08:04] Member of the public: about whether Camp Devon's plans meet these requirements.

[0:08:07] Member of the public: So we call on the Islands Trust to determine if they do

[0:08:11] Member of the public: and to exert its authority

[0:08:13] Member of the public: to ensure its regulations are upheld

[0:08:16] Member of the public: in alignment with the Islands Trust mandate

[0:08:20] Member of the public: to quote, preserve and protect the trust area

[0:08:23] Member of the public: and its unique amenities and environment

[0:08:26] Member of the public: environment for the benefit of the residents of the trust area and of British Columbia

[0:08:32] Member of the public: in cooperation with municipalities, regional districts, improvement districts, First Nations,

[0:08:35] Member of the public: other persons and organizations, and the government of British Columbia. Thank you very much.

[0:08:42] Member of the public: Thank you.

[0:08:48] Chair Maude (probable): Trustee, any questions? Okay, so we're going to move on to public participation.

[0:08:54] Chair Maude (probable): patient. So a couple of things. One, if you're an applicant, you don't need to sort of put your

[0:09:02] Chair Maude (probable): hand up at this point in time to address local trust committee. At the time your application

[0:09:06] Chair Maude (probable): is being dealt with, that's the time to speak to your application. If you're not an applicant

[0:09:10] Chair Maude (probable): and you want to speak about an application, this is the time to speak. We generally speaking,

[0:09:19] Chair Maude (probable): like my rules is two minutes per person anybody who's been here before we don't

[0:09:26] Chair Maude (probable): have stopwatch so be considerate of the time the other thing because of the

[0:09:31] Chair Maude (probable): large amount of people here please don't repeat what somebody else said so if

[0:09:37] Chair Maude (probable): somebody says I'm for this I'm against it and that's kind of it well that's

[0:09:42] Chair Maude (probable): good

[0:09:42] Chair Maude (probable): so

[0:09:44] Chair Maude (probable): we don't need a whole bunch of people saying the same thing over and

[0:09:47] Chair Maude (probable): because we have a lot of business to do today other than this so but we will we will take

[0:09:53] Chair Maude (probable): whatever time is needed for public visitation the other thing is is please no booing or clapping or

[0:09:59] Chair Maude (probable): anything else because first respect people in the room but also be respectful please so well sorry

[0:10:07] Chair Maude (probable): hands in the air so we have i

[0:10:10] Chair Maude (probable): just have a question yes okay um

[0:10:12] Chair Maude (probable): are you going to designate that the

[0:10:14] Chair Maude (probable): first speakers are about the topic we just dealt with or we just jumped in anyway it's first come

[0:10:18] Chair Maude (probable): first serve and and within reason we'll go and you guys are done but please respect we've done

[0:10:26] Chair Maude (probable): a lot of business today so repeating and all that please don't that's another

[0:10:32] Voice 20: question please yes

[0:10:33] Chair Maude (probable): are we allowed to put questions when we don't stand up can we put questions to our trustees

[0:10:39] Chair Maude (probable): Absolutely.

[0:10:40] Chair Maude (probable): That's what we're here for. This is public participation. So ask or make whatever statement you want to do. So, ma'am, you had your hand up first, please.

[0:10:49] Chair Maude (probable): Thank you.

[0:10:52] Trustee Borthwick: Actually, no. So Cap Demmon is not currently an applicant. They don't have an application in front of us.

[0:10:59] Trustee Borthwick: You

[0:10:59] Chair Maude (probable): have a status.

[0:11:04] Voice 21: Excuse me.

[0:11:06] Voice 21: Thank you.

[0:11:12] Chair Maude (probable): Good morning.

[0:11:15] Member of the public: Good morning.

[0:11:17] Member of the public: It's

[0:11:17] Member of the public: nice that we know your name.

[0:11:19] Member of the public: That's what I will start with.

[0:11:21] Member of the public: Thank you.

[0:11:21] Member of the public: Thank you.

[0:11:22] Member of the public: Good morning.

[0:11:23] Member of the public: My name is Samia Harris, and I am the owner of Camp Denman property, which is known as the Alkaven.

[0:11:32] Member of the public: I am here today to clarify some issues.

[0:11:35] Member of the public: One is Camp Denman, Alkaven, has been operating for at least the past 65 years.

[0:11:45] Member of the public: The taxes I'm paying are much higher than the compatible sizes because it's a camp.

[0:11:53] Member of the public: I have bought the camp with four camp reservations on it, which we have served.

[0:12:01] Member of the public: And the reason that I selected this for the camp is to keep the legacy of the camp.

[0:12:11] Member of the public: That's number one.

[0:12:14] Member of the public: Number two, why have I decided to invest on Denman and on the camp?

[0:12:23] Member of the public: I have been an educator for the past 54 years with accredited camps and accredited schools.

[0:12:29] Member of the public: schools and empowering women and children.

[0:12:37] Member of the public: Home is where the heart is or where the heart beats.

[0:12:41] Member of the public: My heart beats in Denman because of my beautiful grandchildren.

[0:12:45] Member of the public: They love this island and they want to stay in it.

[0:12:50] Member of the public: And that is why I am here.

[0:12:53] Member of the public: My son has an amazing vision for living in Denman,

[0:12:59] Member of the public: which is live, work, and play with a good, decent standard of living.

[0:13:08] Member of the public: The camp needed a lot of tender, loving care.

[0:13:12] Member of the public: I have been stuck on the road that they said,

[0:13:16] Member of the public: why have we fixed the road?

[0:13:18] Member of the public: I have been stuck on that little road on the camp on a rainy day.

[0:13:25] Member of the public: The camp has not been maintained for years,

[0:13:28] Member of the public: and the alks will tell in the letter why they couldn't keep up with it

[0:13:36] Member of the public: because of the cost that was needed.

[0:13:40] Member of the public: We have selected to give it all that it needed to operate as a camp.

[0:13:48] Member of the public: This time, I want to direct my point to the esteemed island trustee members.

[0:13:57] Member of the public: members, forgive me for that, you have put a delegation complaint against me on the agenda

[0:14:05] Member of the public: without informing me. Is that a normal practice? Because if it is, I hope that you change it.

[0:14:14] Member of the public: As Canada stands with justice, equal rights, and against discrimination, against any reason

[0:14:24] Member of the public: for discrimination the practice that just a neighbor called me and said your name is on the

[0:14:32] Member of the public: list to me doesn't sound or feel kosher it feels more like a witch hunt with all the rumors that's

[0:14:41] Member of the public: going around and unfortunately the information that was just told now and all everything that

[0:14:51] Member of the public: that I heard so far about what we are doing on the camp.

[0:14:57] Member of the public: It doesn't sound like a community discussion.

[0:15:01] Member of the public: Please, every citizen who cares, find the facts.

[0:15:07] Member of the public: Find the facts and ask for the facts.

[0:15:10] Member of the public: I know we haven't done a good job

[0:15:14] Member of the public: in the public relation information,

[0:15:16] Member of the public: but we wanted to wait till the camp was ready

[0:15:20] Member of the public: So we can have an open house and invite everybody and

[0:15:24] Trustee Borthwick: encourage everybody

[0:15:28] Member of the public: to find the real information on what we are doing.

[0:15:32] Member of the public: We just have not had the chance or the opportunity to do that.

[0:15:38] Member of the public: Finally, I want to share with you the amazing work that the camp team are doing.

[0:15:45] Member of the public: the best and the brightest of Denman and British Columbia.

[0:15:50] Member of the public: Mark, Max, Angela, Becky, Tony, Eli, Amber, Tashi, Christian, Dorian,

[0:15:59] Member of the public: and many, many more are putting amazing, amazing educational program.

[0:16:06] Member of the public: The program embraces the wholesome approach for education to introduce

[0:16:11] Member of the public: and include the environment, art, music, dance, yoga,

[0:16:17] Member of the public: celebration of love to learn.

[0:16:20] Member of the public: Through the life journey, please join me in making this amazing program

[0:16:26] Member of the public: enrich the life of Denman.

[0:16:29] Member of the public: We will have an open house at the end when it's ready.

[0:16:35] Member of the public: And I am here, and the reason I moved, people said she came from the U.S.

[0:16:40] Member of the public: I came from the US. I have been a Canadian from 1973. My son was born in Etobicoke, Toronto in 1976. And my kids have been here and you can check my name on the house for 30 years or 25 years at least.

[0:16:59] Member of the public: but work and life made me between Virginia and the US.

[0:17:04] Member of the public: And when Prime Minister Carney asked that Canadians invest in Canada

[0:17:10] Member of the public: and

[0:17:11] Member of the public: make Canada a better place for all of us, for Canadians, by Canadians,

[0:17:20] Member of the public: for the people who live here, that's why I responded.

[0:17:24] Member of the public: So I hope that you understand where I came from

[0:17:27] Member of the public: on and appreciate my position thank you very much thank

[0:17:31] Chair Maude (probable): you so to be clear this is our meeting so

[0:17:34] Chair Maude (probable): time is hard not the audience expression and you will not interrupt another speaker and you will

[0:17:41] Chair Maude (probable): and professional and trustworthy. So, ma'am, on your head.

[0:17:44] Chair Maude (probable): Could I ask you for my next paragraph?

[0:17:47] Chair Maude (probable): Absolutely.

[0:17:49] Trustee Borthwick: Are you asking it to us or are you asking it

[0:17:51] Trustee Borthwick: to the previous speaker?

[0:17:52] Trustee Borthwick: No, you'll have to.

[0:17:54] Chair Maude (probable): Samia Harris.

[0:17:55] Chair Maude (probable): Thank you.

[0:17:57] Chair Maude (probable): I'm

[0:17:57] Chair Maude (probable): the mother of Tony and Freddie.

[0:18:00] Chair Maude (probable): Great. And grandmother of Brian and Fred.

[0:18:03] Chair Maude (probable): Well, hello.

[0:18:04] Chair Maude (probable): I just have a quick question for you.

[0:18:06] Chair Maude (probable): Could you address the smoothing water issue?

[0:18:09] Chair Maude (probable): Yes, I am not an expert in it, but...

[0:18:12] Committee member (uncertain): Sorry,

[0:18:13] Trustee Borthwick: sorry you guys. Actually, we're going to have discussions come directly to us. If

[0:18:17] Trustee Borthwick: you have questions for Cap Denman, you can direct it to them, but this is a chance for

[0:18:22] Trustee Borthwick: you to speak to the local trust committee.

[0:18:24] Trustee Borthwick: Okay.

[0:18:25] Trustee Borthwick: So...

[0:18:25] Trustee Borthwick: Would

[0:18:25] Committee member (uncertain): you like to address it?

[0:18:29] Committee member (uncertain): This is, unfortunately, the circumstances of this meeting is we could not answer those

[0:18:34] Committee member (uncertain): questions.

[0:18:35] Committee member (uncertain): So I would suggest outside of the

[0:18:37] Committee member (uncertain): meeting, you could ask a question and get it answered.

[0:18:43] Committee member (uncertain): And for

[0:18:43] Trustee Borthwick: clarity, Perry, yes, absolutely, it's very important that we answer those questions.

[0:18:49] Trustee Borthwick: We're not going to do it just anecdotally in a meeting.

[0:18:52] Trustee Borthwick: So we will verify that there are specific rules and processes by way of the Sabbath.

[0:18:58] Trustee Borthwick: We're not going to do it just by asking people in a public meeting.

[0:19:02] Chair Maude (probable): Okay, gentlemen, way, way in the back.

[0:19:33] Chair Maude (probable): Let's respect natural law, and our water is a big problem, so let's just be mindful, that's all.

[0:19:41] Recording secretary: So just a second, our recording secretary just has a question for me please, so Lisa go ahead.

[0:19:47] Recording secretary: I can't hear the speakers unless they're near the mic, so I did not hear what that speaker said.

[0:19:52] Recording secretary: The individual standing behind the LTC table is doing fist up maneuvers.

[0:19:59] Chair Maude (probable): Okay, so please, I don't see that. So I get for the recording sector, because it's a big room,

[0:20:06] Chair Maude (probable): and you guys are all over the place, is as you're acknowledged, if you would come up somewhere

[0:20:11] Chair Maude (probable): within the vicinity of the camera here, so that they can capture what you're saying, please. And

[0:20:16] Chair Maude (probable): also, probably, if you're up here speaking that way, you're able to, everybody can hear what

[0:20:21] Chair Maude (probable): you're saying. But again, you're addressing us, please. So I had some hands up over here,

[0:20:32] Member of the public: I'm sorry we had an opportunity it seems like for the proponent to answer some of those

[0:20:37] Member of the public: questions so we're still we're really looking forward we know you can't answer them but

[0:20:40] Member of the public: I think most people here are looking forward to the answers to those questions I hope one

[0:20:45] Member of the public: is is okay now and that's just a whole question of precedent I think for a lot of people they're

[0:20:51] Member of the public: Concerned that people love the idea of working with the kids and the arts and so on.

[0:20:55] Member of the public: Those are motherhood issues.

[0:20:57] Member of the public: The concern is the precedent of breaking a hope for what we can make out from the intervention that Stephanie made,

[0:21:06] Member of the public: that all the rules and regulations, as far as we can see, are being disregarded.

[0:21:12] Member of the public: And how does that look to you guys as a precedent for development on them?

[0:21:17] Chair Maude (probable): Well, I would disagree that they're being disregarded.

[0:21:20] Chair Maude (probable): Okay, so any

[0:21:21] Chair Maude (probable): complaint that is brought to Islands Trust is thoroughly and properly investigated, so we do not ignore anything.

[0:21:31] Chair Maude (probable): I don't know, Manager Dingman, do you want to say anything about any existing complaints?

[0:21:40] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: So I can, Chair. I can let you know that.

[0:21:46] Chair Maude (probable): So, Warren, if you can speak up a bit and the room will be quiet, we'll see if we can hear you.

[0:21:51] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: Okay, so Chair, hopefully you can now hear me now. We do have an open file for this property, and the property owners have been informed about the contraventions on the property, and that they need to cease doing certain unlawful things.

[0:22:06] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: There's permits that they require, and we will follow up as necessary to ensure that they comply with the Siding and Use By-law and the Land Use By-law for Denman.

[0:22:17] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: so the property owners have been saying correspondence after site inspections

[0:22:21] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: that there's non-permitted or unlawful uses on the property current over to you chair

[0:22:27] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: thank you

[0:22:28] Chair Maude (probable): mr david so

[0:22:29] Chair Maude (probable): oh yeah sorry i'll just

[0:22:34] Trustee Borthwick: look for you next thank you i'm

[0:22:38] Member of the public: michael repati the concern that

[0:22:41] Member of the public: I think many people have is also a precedence setting thing.

[0:22:46] Member of the public: Formerly Camp Demmon was a free camp for kids that was basically a free camp

[0:22:54] Member of the public: for kids.

[0:22:55] Member of the public: And there's a fine line between running a resort and a camp.

[0:23:00] Member of the public: And to us,

[0:23:02] Member of the public: what it seems like Camp Demmon is doing is they're building a resort.

[0:23:07] Member of the public: they're doing it under the auspices of supporting the arts which is great but it is a resort and

[0:23:14] Member of the public: what will happen is then every developer there's a winery at the north end of the island that would

[0:23:21] Member of the public: love to open up a spa and a hotel there's jimmy patterson who would like to open up a few resorts

[0:23:27] Member of the public: and as soon

[0:23:27] Planner Thomaidis: as we have

[0:23:28] Member of the public: one operating resort then it just basically opens the door for everything

[0:23:35] Member of the public: And I think we fought really hard to keep the island rural, and that's what we would

[0:23:41] Member of the public: like to be doing.

[0:23:42] Member of the public: Thank you very much for your time.

[0:23:44] Member of the public: Yeah,

[0:23:45] Member of the public: I just want to say that, I was doing some weeding on the property and I was putting

[0:23:54] Member of the public: back my tools and it's horrific.

[0:23:58] Member of the public: You've got these 30-foot, you've got a 10-foot fence, and you've got these big row of these industrial-looking

[0:24:07] Member of the public: tents that are just towering over the property, two feet from the fence line, when they have 35 acres.

[0:24:17] Member of the public: And I just said, under my breath, and I was inside the barn, oh, my God, that looks disgusting.

[0:24:24] Member of the public: All of a sudden, all these heads pop up.

[0:24:27] Member of the public: They're on scaffolding, towering over onto the property,

[0:24:31] Member of the public: giving me looks like they want to beat me up.

[0:24:34] Member of the public: Like it was just, it was gross.

[0:24:36] Member of the public: And if you can't even

[0:24:37] Member of the public: talk under your breath on the property

[0:24:39] Member of the public: without getting flat from the neighbors,

[0:24:42] Member of the public: when they got 35 acres,

[0:24:44] Member of the public: I just thought that was just totally invasive.

[0:24:46] Member of the public: And I just want to report that, that's going on.

[0:24:52] Member of the public: Okay. Next. Hi,

[0:24:56] Member of the public: I'm Patty Willis. Samia, with respect, you suggested that we would know the

[0:25:03] Member of the public: facts after the development is done. That is not appropriate. There are misunderstandings.

[0:25:12] Member of the public: Please address. Oh,

[0:25:14] Member of the public: I'm sorry. With respect to what you said. I think we need to know the facts

[0:25:19] Member of the public: now before the development happens and all the construction happens doesn't it

[0:25:26] Member of the public: then it's a done deal and that's very difficult if we have concerns if various

[0:25:32] Member of the public: bylaws and from all these various agencies have been already undermined

[0:25:41] Member of the public: it's too late so I appreciate what Samia is saying but we need to know the facts

[0:25:48] Member of the public: now, not when it's complete.

[0:25:50] Member of the public: Thank you.

[0:25:52] Member of the public: Yep, that went better.

[0:25:53] Member of the public: They probably, the easiest thing

[0:25:55] Member of the public: would have been to call them and ask them

[0:25:57] Member of the public: if we could ask them a few questions, which is what

[0:25:59] Member of the public: I did, and

[0:26:01] Member of the public: I was able to answer

[0:26:03] Member of the public: eight questions I wanted, and I was

[0:26:05] Member of the public: giving the information I wanted,

[0:26:07] Member of the public: and that might have been easier than

[0:26:09] Member of the public: all this garbage that's

[0:26:11] Member of the public: roaming around and all the nonsense and

[0:26:13] Member of the public: the rumors about all sorts of things.

[0:26:15] Member of the public: So,

[0:26:16] Member of the public: So, you know, we've heard about this for a long time.

[0:26:20] Member of the public: Anybody ask them?

[0:26:22] Member of the public: Yes.

[0:26:23] Trustee Borthwick: Susan, give

[0:26:25] Chair Maude (probable): us your name.

[0:26:25] Chair Maude (probable): My

[0:26:26] Chair Maude (probable): name is Susan Tate.

[0:26:27] Chair Maude (probable): Susan Tate.

[0:26:30] Chair Maude (probable): And just for those who have big voices, staying in the back is fine.

[0:26:34] Chair Maude (probable): But if you don't, please come up.

[0:26:35] Chair Maude (probable): So, gentlemen, way in the back, please.

[0:26:38] Member of the public: Jeremy?

[0:26:40] Member of the public: Yes.

[0:26:57] Member of the public: I read the delegation's letter. There's a few interesting points that I'd like to address,

[0:27:03] Member of the public: and I'm hearing that also in the room. To someone who's based around use of language,

[0:27:07] Member of the public: language. And maybe, yeah, I can understand. And over the years, we have had also some

[0:27:14] Member of the public: different projects come up on the island that, as a community, we've gone together, we've

[0:27:19] Member of the public: done our research, and felt this wasn't appropriate. And when we're talking about facts, when we're

[0:27:25] Member of the public: talking, and I think that's, as Harris said, if you have questions, find out the facts.

[0:27:32] Member of the public: I think that there is a lot of misleading use of language happening here. In the delegation

[0:27:37] Member of the public: there is a reference to our community as if it's one homogeneous body, which we know it's not.

[0:27:48] Member of the public: And I've had my concerns with this project, and I did reach to Tony and Samia to have conversations around it,

[0:27:55] Member of the public: seeing where this is going and how is this continuing the legacy of the Elks.

[0:28:00] Member of the public: Now, the Elks weren't very active, as we know, over the years for a number of reasons.

[0:28:05] Member of the public: one of them was visibility, the other one, the infrastructure was falling apart.

[0:28:10] Member of the public: And then the question of AI came up, and a lot of people get freaked out by AI, as I understand.

[0:28:17] Member of the public: But at the source of it, for those of you who know, I run the Dojo.

[0:28:22] Member of the public: I've been here for 20-some-odd years, educational program.

[0:28:25] Member of the public: I've been on the radar this whole time, and I've kept it that way for a number of reasons.

[0:28:31] Member of the public: But I would really be able to make use of the facilities at Denman

[0:28:36] Member of the public: Camp for the next step of

[0:28:38] Member of the public: my projects as well. And the reason I bring this up is, yeah, there is people, there is confusion,

[0:28:44] Member of the public: there is concerns around water. And I think that, yes, there needs to be answers around that,

[0:28:50] Member of the public: which we all understand. But I also remind that there's a farm right next door who's

[0:28:55] Member of the public: planning water so i'm not sure how much water is is of concern so my suggestion is and i think

[0:29:02] Member of the public: there's also a bit of misunderstanding of the process i think a lot of people feel like this

[0:29:06] Member of the public: is a public consultation which it's not can

[0:29:10] Chair Maude (probable): i stop can i stop you for a sec no

[0:29:12] Chair Maude (probable): no no no no

[0:29:17] Voice 20: could

[0:29:18] Chair Maude (probable): we not move to the lawn

[0:29:35] Member of the public: So I think some of the concerns that keep on coming out definitely need to be addressed.

[0:29:42] Member of the public: But I really do suggest do your homework.

[0:29:45] Member of the public: I don't think that this is an us versus them.

[0:29:48] Member of the public: I don't think that there is a homogenous body around the community here.

[0:29:54] Member of the public: I think that, yeah, the Elks weren't very active.

[0:29:57] Member of the public: This is a project that could be very active.

[0:30:00] Member of the public: That's going to bring people, whether I'm going to think that this is a resort, certainly

[0:30:04] Member of the public: not because if you have some understanding of the project, of the nature of the project,

[0:30:08] Member of the public: of the people involved, these are Denman people doing Denman work.

[0:30:12] Member of the public: And I think we all understand, none of us want to resort to that.

[0:30:16] Member of the public: Whether this is going to set a precedent for that and Jimmy Patterson is going to come

[0:30:20] Member of the public: and because that project has gone ahead and Jimmy Patterson is going to get it, we know

[0:30:25] Member of the public: it's not going to happen.

[0:30:25] Member of the public: So I would really appreciate that we be mindful around use of language and the images that we're trying to portray and that we stay as objective as we can in how we go around balancing that.

[0:30:39] Member of the public: I know that from history, we tend to be on the defensive with products that are put forward for very good reasons.

[0:30:47] Member of the public: But I think that it needs to be well balanced and we need to do our homework and do research and support what we feel is right.

[0:30:54] Member of the public: But please do your research on that.

[0:30:56] Member of the public: Thank you.

[0:30:57] Member of the public: Thank you.

[0:30:58] Member of the public: You should come see the Tents Valley.

[0:31:01] Member of the public: Not across the coast.

[0:31:02] Member of the public: No,

[0:31:03] Member of the public: you've got to smell it.

[0:31:04] Member of the public: Okay, then we'll see another day.

[0:31:11] Member of the public: My name is Graham Hayman.

[0:31:12] Member of the public: I don't know much about the current application.

[0:31:16] Member of the public: Everybody doing this?

[0:31:17] Member of the public: No, but it's for the microphone, Graham.

[0:31:23] Member of the public: What I know about the application and the development of the capidermum,

[0:31:26] Member of the public: I've learned here.

[0:31:27] Member of the public: Yeah, but what I find

[0:31:30] Member of the public: strange in, similarly, your presentation,

[0:31:32] Member of the public: you say that you've had long contact with Denman, your son,

[0:31:36] Member of the public: and surely they must have, through reading the papers, et cetera,

[0:31:43] Member of the public: be aware of the

[0:31:45] Member of the public: process of the Islands Trust,

[0:31:48] Member of the public: the controls it's under, et cetera, et cetera,

[0:31:50] Member of the public: to the diplomacy of the environment.

[0:31:53] Member of the public: But then it seems to me the way you have done this totally ignores those processes.

[0:32:04] Member of the public: Now any urban area, any residential area or agricultural area has rules

[0:32:11] Member of the public: and regulations

[0:32:12] Member of the public: about how you have to do things.

[0:32:15] Member of the public: And it seems to me that these have been totally ignored.

[0:32:19] Member of the public: I failed to understand that.

[0:32:29] Member of the public: hi my name is tracy horvat and i'm actually going to speak to a different topic as fascinating and

[0:32:36] Member of the public: exciting as this topic is i'm here to support uh three ravens project um i myself am someone who

[0:32:45] Member of the public: who lives in a shared situation.

[0:32:48] Member of the public: That's how I got out of the unstable rental market.

[0:32:51] Member of the public: I have been involved on Denman

[0:32:53] Member of the public: through the Denman Island Women's Outreach Society.

[0:32:57] Member of the public: I have been involved

[0:32:59] Member of the public: with the Harmony Denman Healthcare Society

[0:33:01] Member of the public: as their administrator,

[0:33:02] Member of the public: and I'm currently a lifestyle subsistence farmer on Denman

[0:33:05] Member of the public: providing food and community.

[0:33:08] Member of the public: And I believe that land sharing brings people

[0:33:11] Member of the public: people who understand the need to cooperate with each other,

[0:33:16] Member of the public: that know that they need each other,

[0:33:20] Member of the public: have skills in communication and problem solving

[0:33:24] Member of the public: and conflict resolution.

[0:33:26] Member of the public: And so I am asking the trust to please move forward

[0:33:31] Member of the public: on that project or support that project

[0:33:33] Member of the public: in moving forward in a timely manner.

[0:33:35] Member of the public: I could list at least a half dozen or more individuals

[0:33:39] Member of the public: individuals in our community, existing members who are in need of stable housing and deserve

[0:33:45] Member of the public: stable housing. So, thank you for your time. Carry on.

[0:33:51] Member of the public: Okay. So, I

[0:33:53] Member of the public: also

[0:33:57] Member of the public: came here to speak about Three Ravens. I can't help myself. I'll say

[0:34:07] Member of the public: a couple words about camp denman i think everyone loves the idea of a kid's camp and we're sad when

[0:34:12] Member of the public: elk haven closed down and we love the idea of a center that can provide vibrancy and support for

[0:34:19] Member of the public: the art and artists on genman it needs to be done properly you get the if you're doing things

[0:34:25] Member of the public: outside of the current zone unfortunately as i know you have to slow down and you have to go

[0:34:32] Member of the public: through the processes and if people don't do that we have bylaw enforcement and i would not like it

[0:34:38] Member of the public: to come to that because that's a hassle but things need to be the community needs to really know some

[0:34:44] Member of the public: people say they do some people say they don't that's not good enough and we need to know what

[0:34:51] Member of the public: our bylaws allow and do we want to change them because they were created out of a very robust

[0:34:55] Member of the public: highly argued public process so and in terms of three ravens i think that tracy summed up a lot of

[0:35:03] Member of the public: the uh good points about land cooperatives most of you know i'm also part of a land cooperative

[0:35:09] Member of the public: coho landing uh it provides housing for all sorts of folks and the nice thing about a cooperative

[0:35:15] Member of the public: is that this kind of cooperative which is a very particular kind it's uh unusual kind of cooperative

[0:35:22] Member of the public: where the people build and finance and manage their own space and that works for people who

[0:35:28] Member of the public: are looking for a rural lifestyle people move to an island they actually want to fix things and

[0:35:33] Member of the public: build things and figure out the land and figure out the water um they're not looking for apartment

[0:35:38] Member of the public: style living or many many um and this is it's such a do-it-yourself and collective approach so that

[0:35:46] Member of the public: And it also develops people with really great collaborative communicative skills and appreciation for the value of generosity and sharing.

[0:35:57] Member of the public: And that radiates out into the community.

[0:35:59] Member of the public: And when I look at all the people who live on lounge chairs on Devon and I see what they can give to the community, it's, you know, it's amazing.

[0:36:08] Member of the public: So I just want to urge you to move ahead with it as much as possible.

[0:36:12] Member of the public: I understand it's coming in at a kind of funny place in terms of timing, but it's that way.

[0:36:17] Member of the public: And I would just suggest that a water management plan isn't needed because the co-op isn't managing and providing the water, as I understand.

[0:36:27] Member of the public: Each household is responsible for their own.

[0:36:30] Member of the public: And that's part of this do-it-yourself co-op approach.

[0:36:33] Member of the public: and it maximizes skill building

[0:36:38] Member of the public: and personal responsibility

[0:36:40] Member of the public: and minimizes bureaucracy.

[0:36:42] Member of the public: And also when you're taking care

[0:36:45] Member of the public: of your own water catchment

[0:36:47] Member of the public: and you rely on it,

[0:36:48] Member of the public: you get very connected

[0:36:49] Member of the public: to the cycle of the rain

[0:36:53] Member of the public: and how that affects the earth.

[0:36:56] Member of the public: And you've come to know ecology

[0:36:58] Member of the public: and climate change

[0:37:00] Member of the public: and the land so well.

[0:37:02] Member of the public: And that's a real value.

[0:37:04] Member of the public: So the cooperative isn't going to be deciding exactly how many cisterns and where they go and if they're set up properly.

[0:37:10] Member of the public: People will be doing this.

[0:37:11] Member of the public: And the fact is, like with rainwater catchment, it's a matter of like you set it up as best you can.

[0:37:21] Member of the public: And if the climate changes, which it is, or if your family size changes and you realize your needs change, you fiddle with it.

[0:37:31] Member of the public: Like you add a new cistern, you add catchment area.

[0:37:34] Member of the public: it's not like a well that when it's dry it's dry and so you can set it up all you want but it

[0:37:40] Member of the public: doesn't it's not i mean it is necessary to have a well set up but it's very easily adjusted uh so i

[0:37:47] Member of the public: think that we can trust the people living in the homes when they think they're running out of water

[0:37:53] Member of the public: they're going to be motivated and they're going to be motivated not to poison themselves i think

[0:37:57] Member of the public: this idea of a water management plan is when there's an agency that is providing water for a

[0:38:02] Member of the public: group of people then you have a water system so and i just think it would be meaningless anyways

[0:38:07] Member of the public: because if they hired an expert and they did a plan and it's like oh that might not be enough

[0:38:12] Member of the public: water the expert would say well we better add one sister in each like you're not going to get a plan

[0:38:17] Member of the public: that says oh this isn't going to work i just don't see how technically that's possible so i actually

[0:38:23] Member of the public: think that ocp policy e29 is satisfied by the use of rainwater because even if it rains differently

[0:38:31] Member of the public: there's going to be plenty of rain um and the other thing is a covenant for eco protection

[0:38:36] Member of the public: ecologically protection great idea but i didn't read anywhere about ecologically rare or highly

[0:38:44] Member of the public: sensitive sites so maybe what you need to um or want to achieve with a covenant could be achieved

[0:38:51] Member of the public: elsewhere because it seems a little bit like overkill um and uh the other thing i just want

[0:38:58] Member of the public: want to talk about is need like i'm part of the coho landing we changed the topic

[0:39:01] Member of the public: and i didn't know how long it would go on i'm gonna wrap up uh i'm part of coho landing we

[0:39:11] Member of the public: just got rezoning for four new units we haven't even formally put out the word for applications

[0:39:16] Member of the public: that'll happen in a few weeks we already have more formal applications and expressions of

[0:39:22] Member of the public: interest that we can fill last time we had openings we had over 50 expressions of interest

[0:39:28] Member of the public: for one in sight we had to turn down people who we really wanted in the co-op who are amazing

[0:39:34] Member of the public: community members who wanted this particular type of affordable housing so the need is out there

[0:39:42] Member of the public: yeah thank you and you can

[0:39:44] Member of the public: go back to be clear this is town hall on any topic so we're not

[0:39:51] Member of the public: picking and choosing.

[0:39:52] Member of the public: Ma'am, you've been leaning for quite a while, so...

[0:39:55] Member of the public: Yep, thank you.

[0:39:56] Member of the public: Sorry,

[0:39:56] Member of the public: may I go after, just because my baby's about to go?

[0:39:58] Member of the public: Absolutely.

[0:40:00] Member of the public: Liz is waiting to speak, too.

[0:40:02] Member of the public: My name's Joan Donaghy, I live at The Snag.

[0:40:05] Member of the public: I'm here to support the Three Ravens Project.

[0:40:08] Member of the public: And I'm going to take a different tack,

[0:40:10] Member of the public: because between Tracy and Laura, they've covered a lot of the

[0:40:12] Member of the public: technical and kind of social benefits of living collectively.

[0:40:18] Member of the public: I want to quote Ram Dass,

[0:40:20] Member of the public: and it's I'm not a follower but but he says don't move the way fear makes you move move the way love

[0:40:26] Member of the public: makes you move and that sounds a little woo woo for an island's trust meeting but actually what

[0:40:31] Member of the public: my argument here is going to mainly be addressing community members who are either on the fence or

[0:40:37] Member of the public: feel threatened or fearful about a project like three ravens and I want to I want to offer this

[0:40:45] Member of the public: who are the people that will be living there they're us okay they are are the people who sign

[0:40:52] Member of the public: up for meal trains they're the families that benefit from those meal trains they're the people

[0:40:56] Member of the public: who organize dances and potlucks and comedy shows and many other things on them and they are people

[0:41:03] Member of the public: who have been already contributing to our community they've been giving us their gifts

[0:41:09] Member of the public: And I would propose that, like Paul and Tara, who are offering a tremendous gift of their property as a gift to this community, and given the tremendous need that the draft bylaws have mentioned, not on the order of dozens or tens, but on the order of hundreds and more need for affordable housing,

[0:41:32] Member of the public: that we offer to those folks in our community who are already giving us their gifts the gift

[0:41:39] Member of the public: of secure housing that is all i have to say remember

[0:41:43] Member of the public: we're not but even if we really love

[0:41:45] Member of the public: what they say we've got to restrain ourselves okay thank you

[0:41:49] Member of the public: um hello everyone i don't like

[0:41:54] Member of the public: public speaking but i just wanted to say that i am here to support the three words project

[0:42:00] Member of the public: and that I have gone on a tour there and read their application and feel like I understand the project quite well.

[0:42:10] Member of the public: Me and my new family are some folks that will be applying when it's approved.

[0:42:18] Member of the public: And I just wanted to introduce ourselves as folks that could be living there.

[0:42:25] Member of the public: so yeah we're like builders carpenters we work in the community um we are part of various mutual

[0:42:34] Member of the public: aid projects and um sorry a little bit

[0:42:38] Member of the public: emotional yeah thank you um yeah i just feel like

[0:42:45] Member of the public: thank you um we have been living in somewhat inadequate housing the whole time we've been here

[0:42:54] Member of the public: and we have a much better space now but it is stressful having a young child in the world and

[0:43:04] Member of the public: knowing we don't have to move at any moment um sorry

[0:43:09] Member of the public: guys um yeah just wanted to show a lot of

[0:43:12] Member of the public: appreciation to these two and um remind us that like affordable and just housing in general is

[0:43:19] Member of the public: a human right according to the declaration of um UN yes the UN declaration of human rights

[0:43:26] Member of the public: that's what it's called and um yeah I just wanted to say a few words before the baby starts crying

[0:43:33] Member of the public: Okay. And instead I cry.

[0:43:40] Member of the public: We have so many hands up, so

[0:43:44] Member of the public: they were there for me.

[0:43:50] Member of the public: I'm white, so my tears.

[0:43:52] Member of the public: It's so funny.

[0:43:56] Member of the public: My name's Dori Woodward, and I'm speaking to the

[0:43:58] Member of the public: Three Ravens co-op.

[0:44:01] Member of the public: uh i i'm going to sort of approach it from a different way when we got here for myself in

[0:44:10] Member of the public: the 70s or 80s we were putting together a community plan and bylaws that didn't include

[0:44:16] Member of the public: any land bank and there was no crown land on denman to speak of so that the resources

[0:44:23] Member of the public: that would be available for any housing improvisation other than single lots private

[0:44:30] Member of the public: private ownership wasn't there. And it continues to be that way. We don't have a lot of resources

[0:44:36] Member of the public: to accommodate the rising prices, the difficult mortgages. And so basically, the coming generation

[0:44:46] Member of the public: has had a hell of a time. My children have had a hell of a time. They couldn't afford to live on

[0:44:52] Member of the public: Denman and when I came back from being away in Mexico and had no land anymore here I was told

[0:45:01] Member of the public: maybe you just shouldn't live here I've lived here for 50 years but I was told that not once

[0:45:08] Member of the public: not twice but a number of times because I couldn't fit into the private ownership anymore

[0:45:14] Member of the public: you know and so for many years I went from place to place I moved 11 times over that period

[0:45:22] Member of the public: And I think it was like 12 years. So it was very, very tough and very, very stressful.

[0:45:31] Member of the public: So the resources that we do have are when people now maybe put a second dwelling.

[0:45:37] Member of the public: Maybe we're working towards that. But that's hundreds of thousands of dollars to accommodate one person.

[0:45:43] Member of the public: So here we have, we rely on the resources of the hearts of the people, the dedication of people like Paul and Tara, in order to solve our problem, which wasn't created just by ourselves.

[0:46:01] Member of the public: So we were mindlessly doing single dwelling on private property all through the 70s and 80s and 90s.

[0:46:09] Member of the public: We need them. We need other people to do the same thing.

[0:46:14] Member of the public: And we need you guys to work with them to make it happen, because we're losing a generation.

[0:46:33] Member of the public: I am the operations director at Camp Devon and I just want to say I support this project.

[0:46:41] Member of the public: I have a long history of being an agricultural consultant.

[0:46:46] Member of the public: I worked seven years in a university doing a regenerative agriculture program, and to

[0:46:55] Member of the public: I just want to rebut the concerned citizens' statements that we haven't taken land use

[0:47:04] Member of the public: into consideration.

[0:47:06] Member of the public: We have an invasive species plan that is comprehensive.

[0:47:10] Member of the public: We have a water plan that is comprehensive.

[0:47:12] Member of the public: apprehensive, you can feel free to come and talk to Sonia about it. We feel that we have

[0:47:23] Member of the public: thoughtfully stewarded our decisions and taken the land into consideration when we've done

[0:47:29] Member of the public: things. The building has been thoroughly gutted. It was absolutely disgusting. The road, yes,

[0:47:41] Member of the public: it has been updated. It was hard to get down, absolutely beautiful now. These careful and

[0:47:53] Member of the public: conscientious efforts have unfolded alongside what I perceive to be a sustained and unsubstantiated

[0:48:01] Member of the public: campaign of harassment by a small number of individuals. It's deeply disappointing that

[0:48:10] Member of the public: people don't come and like find out the information. The wider community rarely sees what

[0:48:20] Member of the public: it takes to keep everyone alive. The amount of resources that have been invested, the amount of

[0:48:28] Member of the public: time and planning that it takes. And we have been doing our best. We have only been working for two

[0:48:34] Member of the public: months. Of course, we're not fully broadcasting what we have been doing to the community because

[0:48:40] Member of the public: we haven't been ready um thank you

[0:48:44] Trustee Borthwick: guys let's let's let's just listen to the people who are

[0:48:48] Trustee Borthwick: speaking please so

[0:48:50] Member of the public: we have chosen not to undertake um token agricultural activities we've got a class

[0:48:58] Member of the public: classification and tax treatment that is a higher class tax tax bracket than the other

[0:49:06] Member of the public: the farms in the area and our property tax obligations reflect that of a camp. We are

[0:49:12] Member of the public: a camp classification. Throughout my career I worked with so many agriculture producers

[0:49:19] Member of the public: and those experiences have taught me that the best long-term outcomes arise when

[0:49:26] Member of the public: many different values on the land are respected together. So agriculture and cultural heritage

[0:49:32] Member of the public: heritage aren't competing values. We can do that on the land together. Environmental stewardship

[0:49:38] Member of the public: and education at a camp aren't competing values. I think we can do that together. Historic

[0:49:44] Member of the public: camps and responsible land management aren't competing values. This is not a resort. Camp

[0:49:51] Member of the public: Denman embodies the philosophy and seeks to preserve an irreplaceable part of BC's educational

[0:49:57] Member of the public: and cultural heritage, and respects

[0:50:00] Member of the public: the surrounding agricultural landscape, environmental

[0:50:03] Member of the public: values, Indigenous history, and regulation framework. As both an agriculture consultant

[0:50:10] Member of the public: and employee of Camp Denman, I consider it an extraordinary privilege to be able to apply

[0:50:19] Member of the public: the knowledge that I have accumulated throughout my career to a project that brings together

[0:50:24] Member of the public: agriculture, governance, environmental stewardship, indigenous relations, education, creativity,

[0:50:30] Member of the public: and community service in one place. So I believe that this project is not based solely on personal

[0:50:38] Member of the public: investment. It's also based on thoughtful, responsible, and good faith preservation of

[0:50:44] Member of the public: the historic camp.

[0:50:46] Trustee Graham: Thank you. Trustee Graham, I just want to take, I want to remind us all that

[0:50:51] Trustee Graham: there is an active bylaw enforcement and compliance file open to prove that from the

[0:50:56] Trustee Graham: manager the site was visited there's certain things in the infrastructure aspect of the

[0:51:02] Trustee Graham: project not the programming aspect of the project that has certain people concerned that they were

[0:51:07] Trustee Graham: they had the right to make an application uh to file a application to say we think something's

[0:51:14] Trustee Graham: wrong here please investigate it that's what the trust is doing letter has been sent to the owner

[0:51:18] Trustee Graham: They know that they are in comp prevention and they need to stop and they need to come back to the trust with either a rezoning application or at least some way of justifying what they're doing, despite the fact that we have laws that handle setbacks, laws, especially on agricultural land, about the number of camps, camping opportunities that we have.

[0:51:41] Trustee Graham: And we have all these laws, and they kind of ignored them.

[0:51:45] Trustee Graham: They just went into the project thinking that everything was okay.

[0:51:49] Trustee Graham: And that's unfortunate because this meeting is a result of that confusion that our community has.

[0:51:55] Trustee Graham: We don't know what's going on.

[0:51:56] Trustee Graham: We'd like to know.

[0:51:57] Trustee Graham: And when you go through a rezoning, we have a fulsome community opportunity to ask questions, see the plans that are planned, not the results.

[0:52:07] Trustee Graham: We don't like to see it when it's done.

[0:52:08] Trustee Graham: We want to see what your plans are.

[0:52:10] Trustee Graham: and we want to see if they work within our bylaws.

[0:52:13] Trustee Graham: And if they do, go for it.

[0:52:15] Trustee Graham: Have fun and we're going to love it.

[0:52:16] Trustee Graham: But if they don't, you need to change your plans.

[0:52:18] Trustee Graham: You can't come to an island, especially in the Islands Trust,

[0:52:21] Trustee Graham: do what the heck you want to do and think it's going to be okay.

[0:52:24] Trustee Graham: It doesn't work that way.

[0:52:25] Trustee Graham: If they had stopped, taken a breath, approached the trust with a plan,

[0:52:29] Trustee Graham: we wouldn't have this confusion right now that we're dealing with.

[0:52:32] Trustee Graham: And I get it because I love some of the programming ideas.

[0:52:35] Trustee Graham: It's the infrastructure that's happening that has me as a trustee worried.

[0:52:45] Chair Maude (probable): My point

[0:52:47] Member of the public: of order is one of you is speaking on behalf of the opposition.

[0:52:52] Member of the public: That's a very unfair position to take.

[0:52:55] Member of the public: You are saying very unfair position against us and I'm calling it

[0:53:01] Chair Maude (probable): out, unfortunately.

[0:53:05] Chair Maude (probable): If you say there's a file open, then you should leave it open for it to be decided.

[0:53:12] Chair Maude (probable): But for you to put your decision and this is

[0:53:16] Trustee Borthwick: not a debate, very

[0:53:17] Chair Maude (probable): unfair, this is not

[0:53:18] Trustee Borthwick: a debate.

[0:53:18] Chair Maude (probable): You are not being unbiased, you are not being just.

[0:53:23] Member of the public: Okay, kids, please, respectful.

[0:53:27] Member of the public: We have some hands way in the background if I'm going to guess, so tell them there is.

[0:53:48] Member of the public: I'm here for both of these issues, so I'll speak to both of them.

[0:53:53] Member of the public: A very different opinion about both of these projects, and I hope to give you a sense of

[0:54:01] Member of the public: what those differences are.

[0:54:03] Member of the public: And I want to speak in support of Three Ravens first.

[0:54:10] Member of the public: The Three Ravens project offers a generous and sound affordable housing project that is not only about building houses, but building community on a foundation of solidarity.

[0:54:25] Member of the public: And I think that's a very important part of us as a community.

[0:54:30] Member of the public: We need more projects like that of all kinds.

[0:54:32] Member of the public: So let us, in turn, embrace the Three Ravens proposal in the same cooperative spirit of mutual aid that is offered.

[0:54:44] Member of the public: In terms of community affordability, I don't think we can afford to let this one go.

[0:54:50] Member of the public: Thumbs up all around.

[0:54:53] Member of the public: I

[0:54:54] Member of the public: have a very different opinion.

[0:54:59] Member of the public: And I could sort of go on with this for a long time.

[0:55:02] Member of the public: So I decided to write something that will be speaking directly to this issue within a limited time frame.

[0:55:11] Member of the public: And it's about the false equivalency that is being promoted between Camp Denman and Elkhaven Camp.

[0:55:21] Member of the public: And it's a way of sort of grandfathering the new one in under the ALR provisions.

[0:55:28] Member of the public: divisions. Comparing Camp Denman to Camp Elkhaven is like comparing organic Denman apples to

[0:55:36] Member of the public: chemically laden agribusiness fruit. Don't be fooled. Camp Denman is merely a fast food

[0:55:43] Member of the public: version of Elkhaven. Low in community nutrition and high in environmental calories. Camp Denman

[0:55:53] Member of the public: wants to claim Elkhaven's previous legal status as a benefactor of less privileged kids by signaling

[0:56:00] Member of the public: its business model is virtuous, but it merely offers an upscale menu of high-priced services

[0:56:08] Member of the public: to its gentrified customer. Glamping is not camping. Camp Denman is extractive. It takes out,

[0:56:18] Member of the public: but it doesn't deliver on its promises. It's essentially a technocratic capitalist venture

[0:56:26] Member of the public: poorly disguised as an earthy camping adventure. It presents itself as an artistic oasis,

[0:56:35] Member of the public: but it uncritically promotes tools for creating a high-tech cultural desert.

[0:56:41] Member of the public: However, if you don't want to take my word for it, you can easily find a more upbeat report

[0:56:48] Member of the public: support on camp them and just ask an AI chat bot near you.

[0:56:55] Chair Maude (probable): You

[0:56:55] Chair Maude (probable): guys, let's, okay.

[0:56:57] Chair Maude (probable): So we need to work towards wrapping this up.

[0:57:03] Chair Maude (probable): So we'll get as many people as possible.

[0:57:05] Chair Maude (probable): At some point we can't hear everybody.

[0:57:07] Chair Maude (probable): So, sir, wait a minute.

[0:57:09] Chair Maude (probable): There you go, sir.

[0:57:11] Member of the public: I don't want to derail the conversations

[0:57:13] Member of the public: that have been happening.

[0:57:14] Member of the public: I'm here to speak about something that's totally different.

[0:57:16] Member of the public: And maybe that will serve as a bit of a circuit.

[0:57:20] Member of the public: Sam Stevens, and I'm the owner of a neighboring property that's directly affected by the

[0:57:26] Member of the public: applications 52 and 53, a development permit application and a development variance application.

[0:57:32] Member of the public: Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I've submitted a written statement for the record.

[0:57:37] Member of the public: I'm here today because I do not believe that the development variance permit has been adequately

[0:57:43] Member of the public: justified, and I respectfully request that the committee decline to approve it.

[0:57:48] Member of the public: My principal concern is that the report concludes that the requested variance will have little or no impact on neighboring properties, while simultaneously acknowledging unlawful dwelling use, encroachments on my land, tree removal and land alteration affecting my property, and a permanent reduction of the required setback from three meters to zero meters.

[0:58:14] Member of the public: I do not believe the report adequately explains how those facts are consistent with a conclusion

[0:58:21] Member of the public: of little to no impact.

[0:58:24] Member of the public: The variance is not temporary, it would remain with the property permanently.

[0:58:30] Member of the public: The building is described today as a craft studio, but the report acknowledges that it

[0:58:36] Member of the public: was previously used unlawfully as a detached dwelling and was only decommissioned following

[0:58:43] Member of the public: enforcement action. The report also acknowledges that the owners may

[0:58:48] Member of the public: consider future residential rental use if bylaws change. That possibility is not

[0:58:54] Member of the public: nearly theoretical as amendments that would permit the second permit

[0:58:59] Member of the public: secondary dwellings on Denman Island are currently under consideration. In my view

[0:59:05] Member of the public: the committee is being asked to approve a permanent variance on assumptions

[0:59:09] Member of the public: about a current use that may not remain unchanged.

[0:59:14] Member of the public: The report correctly notes that the committee

[0:59:17] Member of the public: cannot legalize the encroachments.

[0:59:20] Member of the public: However, the encroachments arise directly

[0:59:23] Member of the public: from the location of the building

[0:59:25] Member of the public: that is the subject of the variance request.

[0:59:28] Member of the public: Those encroachments remain unresolved.

[0:59:32] Member of the public: The fact that the building has already resulted

[0:59:35] Member of the public: in encroachments onto my property

[0:59:38] Member of the public: does not support the conclusion

[0:59:39] Member of the public: conclusion that a zero meter setback has little or no impact on neighboring properties. It

[0:59:47] Member of the public: raises serious questions about whether the impacts of the requested variants have been

[0:59:52] Member of the public: adequately assessed. Furthermore, the report appears to assume that the encroachments can

[0:59:57] Member of the public: can simply be removed later.

[1:00:00] Member of the public: but no analysis has been provided regarding how practical or feasible that would be.

[1:00:06] Member of the public: A zero-meter setback creates practical consequences that the report does not appear to analyze.

[1:00:13] Member of the public: Buildings located directly on a property boundary create ongoing issues relating to maintenance access,

[1:00:21] Member of the public: drainage, repairs, fire safety, and boundary management.

[1:00:25] Member of the public: One purpose of setbacks is to allow buildings to be maintained from the owner's own property

[1:00:32] Member of the public: without creating permanent dependencies and ongoing conflicts between neighboring land owners.

[1:00:39] Member of the public: The report does not explain how those ongoing access issues are to be managed.

[1:00:46] Member of the public: Before I conclude, I have three questions that I hope the staff can clarify for the committee.

[1:00:52] Member of the public: First, the report discusses restoration and environmental mitigation measures associated with the Development Permit application.

[1:01:01] Member of the public: As the report acknowledges that tree removal and land alteration occurred partially on my property,

[1:01:08] Member of the public: I would appreciate clarification whether any restoration measures are contemplated for the portions of my property that were affected,

[1:01:16] Member of the public: or whether the proposed restoration and monitoring measures apply only to the applicant's property.

[1:01:23] Member of the public: Second, one of the more significant encroachments, a concrete pad that's partially located on my property,

[1:01:30] Member of the public: does not appear on the survey figure that's included in the staff report,

[1:01:36] Member of the public: despite being identified on the survey that I commissioned, and it remains in place.

[1:01:40] Member of the public: I would appreciate clarification regarding that discrepancy.

[1:01:45] Member of the public: Third, the report places significant weight on the statement that the building was reconstructed

[1:01:51] Member of the public: on the exact footprint of a historic garage. Can staff clarify what evidence was relied upon

[1:01:58] Member of the public: to establish that the footprint was exact? Those are the questions I wish to raise.

[1:02:06] Member of the public: For the reasons outlined in my written submission and my comments today, I respectfully request that

[1:02:11] Member of the public: the committee declined to approve the development variance permit thank you for your time and

[1:02:16] Member of the public: consideration thank you okay so as we're wrapping it up anybody has something that's not there has

[1:02:23] Member of the public: not been

[1:02:23] Member of the public: a topic to address a different topic so we'll do that that's why i go here so we'll do a

[1:02:29] Member of the public: dress you can get a new year yes yes that's cool so i'll get them back there

[1:02:36] Member of the public: did you hear me okay

[1:02:38] Member of the public: Okay. Okay. Melanie Murray. I live here on Denman. I've been living here for the past 11 years.

[1:02:45] Member of the public: And during that time, what I've seen flourish on Denman, sadly, is greed. We have

[1:02:51] Member of the public: completely

[1:02:52] Member of the public: commodified this island in every way, shape, and form. We have issues with the water. We have

[1:02:57] Member of the public: issues with the dairy. We have issue upon issue. And we seem to be going hell-bent. How can we

[1:03:05] Member of the public: bring every bit of profit out of this island that we can we have little consideration for the people

[1:03:10] Member of the public: and the critters that already live here it's uh investment investment investment capitalism is

[1:03:15] Member of the public: dying and i don't want to die with it i would like to see you know an increase in affordable housing

[1:03:22] Member of the public: on denman we never seem to be able to get it off the ground affordable housing dies at every

[1:03:27] Member of the public: opportunity because of water issues septic issues we can't get that off the ground but we have a

[1:03:33] Member of the public: restored that by its own website said it wants to operate year-round with 100 people a week how

[1:03:39] Member of the public: can we support that when we cannot get affordable housing off the ground thank you thank you

[1:03:45] Member of the public: go ahead

[1:03:46] Member of the public: yes hi i'm

[1:03:49] Member of the public: teresa beers and i'm sure i hear you sir please

[1:04:01] Member of the public: um yeah i have a substantial concern about the water

[1:04:08] Trustee Borthwick: you guys you guys you guys take a second if we have less cross talk that'll help and bear in

[1:04:17] Trustee Borthwick: mind this is addressing to us so you guys have to do your best to hear please do speak up i know

[1:04:26] Trustee Borthwick: you will is

[1:04:27] Chair Maude (probable): this the microphone the

[1:04:28] Trustee Borthwick: microphone is over here if you come over here people can hear

[1:04:31] Chair Maude (probable): it later in the recording so you can stand closer to it you

[1:04:34] Trustee Borthwick: also get to stand next to the fan if you

[1:04:39] Member of the public: Yeah, so my name is Teresa Beers and I live on Northwest Road. I have a substantial concern

[1:04:45] Member of the public: with water shortage, of course, on the island, but also just in terms of

[1:04:52] Member of the public: the water usage that may or may not be happening at Countdown and now and in the future.

[1:05:00] Member of the public: It sounds like now there is a water plan that is in place that one of the presenters had

[1:05:06] Member of the public: had brought up. I would love to see that in a public arena. That might clear up some of my

[1:05:13] Member of the public: worries and maybe other people's worries. And the other thing that concerns me is that

[1:05:19] Member of the public: we can say whatever we want now about this is what we're going to do now, but how do we ensure

[1:05:24] Member of the public: even if that is appropriate with bylaws and with water usage, how do we know that that's not going

[1:05:32] Member of the public: to be changing in the future um as things change and possibly get bigger so i'm pretty pretty

[1:05:39] Member of the public: concerned about that and i'm wondering what the trust where where your purview is um in that and

[1:05:46] Member of the public: if you would be able to request some transparency with usage and extraction of water thank you

[1:06:01] Member of the public: we haven't heard from an immediate neighbor yet we live right across the street we think it's a

[1:06:05] Member of the public: great idea we love it what's your name logan logan the point

[1:06:09] Chair Maude (probable): okay okay turn the map here come

[1:06:13] Chair Maude (probable): forward please um

[1:06:14] Member of the public: i've been on the island my 25th cycle now and uh i'm one of those renters

[1:06:23] Member of the public: There is food, so, you know, my ex-wife and my child

[1:06:27] Member of the public: had to move off the island because it's unaffordable.

[1:06:30] Member of the public: Like two grand for a small house.

[1:06:33] Member of the public: And I also, during 25 years, rented 12 locations.

[1:06:39] Member of the public: And another affordable housing project is exactly what we need.

[1:06:43] Member of the public: Like Three Ravens, I'm against resorts,

[1:06:48] Member of the public: although I'm for development, community-oriented.

[1:06:52] Member of the public: And also as for water, we can't depend on rainwater so much anymore.

[1:06:58] Member of the public: Notice we didn't have the April rain. We didn't have any snow this winter.

[1:07:04] Member of the public: The Pickle Beavers Pond, our Swayo Wetlands, our Klasa'i Salmon Stream, our creeks, our ponds, they're all dry already.

[1:07:19] Member of the public: already we're all bringing in water on pilot already and that's only been happening for

[1:07:25] Member of the public: the last few years as the climate is changing by design i just want to say again natural

[1:07:33] Member of the public: law embrace it that's it david give us your name too i am david briskowski thank you so

[1:07:56] Member of the public: I'm Rebecca Nyquist, I'm a long time member of

[1:08:01] Member of the public: Denman Island, and I am the executive director of the Camp Denman Society.

[1:08:07] Member of the public: society, and I'm not going to say a lot of what I plan to say here. It's been said, and also

[1:08:15] Member of the public: I'm not really going to address some of the misinformation in the delegation letter,

[1:08:20] Member of the public: but I do want to say that I absolutely understand and respect the concerns that are being raised

[1:08:25] Member of the public: today, and that we absolutely do need to have conversations about water. I am happy to have

[1:08:31] Member of the public: those conversations um you i'm here you can find me you can talk to me anytime um i want to note

[1:08:40] Member of the public: um that we have indeed already worked with the comox first nation yes we have identified zones

[1:08:47] Member of the public: on our property we are aware of them we've worked with them from the start we are have participated

[1:08:52] Member of the public: in a cultural heritage investigation we've engaged a qualified environmental professional

[1:08:56] Member of the public: We've commissioned a survey and we've engaged with several other agencies on this.

[1:09:01] Member of the public: We are also taking these concerns seriously.

[1:09:04] Member of the public: We have not done anything to the water system at Elk Haven, which has hosted upwards of

[1:09:09] Member of the public: 2000 people a year coming through there in the past.

[1:09:15] Member of the public: Yeah, I am here if you have questions, I am happy to answer questions.

[1:09:19] Member of the public: I'm also here to refute this idea that we are building a resort that is flatly false.

[1:09:24] Member of the public: I really take issue with some of what was said here, especially the idea that we are not continuing children's camps or doing those things.

[1:09:32] Member of the public: Yes, we have a different model. We are continuing to run camps.

[1:09:37] Member of the public: But our vision is not simply to preserve what existed before frozen in time that really, by everyone's admission, wasn't working for everyone.

[1:09:46] Member of the public: And that was falling apart. And that was very much off limits to Denman Islanders.

[1:09:51] Member of the public: this is a unique piece of property that has pre-existing use and once that was gone it is

[1:09:57] Member of the public: gone and i would suggest that it is also part of islands trust's mandate to preserve and help

[1:10:03] Member of the public: support where possible and work together with these pre-existing uses because there are so

[1:10:09] Member of the public: precious few of them within your purview um and these are the places where something unique and

[1:10:15] Member of the public: special can happen on our islands as well. We are renovating the space, as you know,

[1:10:22] Member of the public: we are indeed doing that. We are indeed putting our bunk spaces in mining tents. These are not

[1:10:28] Member of the public: glamping tents. This is where people will bunk. It is not luxury accommodations. That is a total

[1:10:35] Member of the public: mischaracterization. And from the start, our vision has all more accessible to Denman Island.

[1:10:41] Member of the public: We have been researching the history of this place and have found that so many people have never even been down there.

[1:10:47] Member of the public: And that has always been our intention to change that.

[1:10:51] Member of the public: We're creating a

[1:10:52] Member of the public: place where local youth and artists and artisans and diverse creators who live here can gather and

[1:10:58] Member of the public: learn and practice their craft, learn new ones, share their knowledge and expertise with others.

[1:11:03] Member of the public: We are providing employment on the island, which I know people want to discount that in some ways, but it is a very important thing.

[1:11:11] Member of the public: to have a place where people can work here and also pop in and offer a yoga class or pop in and

[1:11:18] Member of the public: offer a pottery class or a weaving class this is a unique opportunity that we are creating here for

[1:11:25] Member of the public: this and we continue to host groups school groups local youth groups we have already hosted some of

[1:11:34] Member of the public: them we had students from Hornby Island at the school we have hosted Denman's own wild haven

[1:11:40] Member of the public: program which I think everyone agrees is a wonderful program. They will be coming again

[1:11:46] Member of the public: at the end of August and we have 30 Denman Island kids who are excited for this opportunity.

[1:11:52] Member of the public: We are donating the space to Wild Haven for that opportunity. We have a returning SD71 outdoor

[1:11:58] Member of the public: adventure group and I know there's a lot of rumors around and I know that we all do need to

[1:12:04] Member of the public: collectively do a better job of communicating what we are doing there and working together

[1:12:09] Member of the public: other to talk about water issues and sustainability issues. But I urge people to keep in mind that we

[1:12:16] Member of the public: live here too and have lived here. I've lived here for over 20 years. We have every incentive

[1:12:21] Member of the public: also to protect this island. So I hope everyone will take that into consideration. And when you

[1:12:28] Member of the public: have questions, please come find me. I have also been an

[1:12:31] Member of the public: educator for 30 years. I have also run a

[1:12:33] Member of the public: not-for-profit school um the characterization that we started a not-for-profit simply to do

[1:12:40] Member of the public: this is false um we are have been in not-for-profit education for a very long time um and the

[1:12:48] Member of the public: characterization about us being some sort of private not-for-profit i don't even know what

[1:12:54] Member of the public: that means but that is absolutely not our definition um so i urge people to come and

[1:12:59] Member of the public: speak with us to learn more about what we are doing and please consider that no this process

[1:13:04] Member of the public: has not been perfect and i understand that but there are opportunities that we're trying to offer

[1:13:11] Member of the public: that we hope that our whole community will benefit okay

[1:13:16] Member of the public: so i really really really need to wrap this

[1:13:19] Member of the public: up so if anybody has something on other topics i want to get to you because i don't want to cut

[1:13:25] Member of the public: people off but i'm trying my best so if you have something else that has not been discussed

[1:13:30] Member of the public: i don't want to ignore you so go ahead um paul

[1:13:35] Member of the public: wire um we haven't

[1:13:36] Member of the public: we haven't

[1:13:39] Member of the public: paul wire we have an affordable housing emergency the hapc has been working on something for years

[1:13:45] Member of the public: they mentioned the report there's been a lot of consultation

[1:13:50] Member of the public: We, it's called the housing project we do now, and there'll be some community information

[1:13:56] Member of the public: meetings.

[1:13:56] Member of the public: The two trustees

[1:13:58] Member of the public: are essentially elected on this affordable housing topic as an issue.

[1:14:02] Member of the public: We need this project to be finished this term.

[1:14:05] Member of the public: It needs to be passed through the third reading this term, shouldn't

[1:14:09] Member of the public: be pushed to the next

[1:14:10] Member of the public: trustees.

[1:14:11] Member of the public: That's my opinion.

[1:14:13] Voice 5: Okay.

[1:14:14] Member of the public: Thank you.

[1:14:14] Member of the public: so just to wrap this anybody else who hasn't spoken that wants to do something it hasn't been

[1:14:19] Member of the public: done so i have another

[1:14:21] Member of the public: call here in one sentence

[1:14:22] Member of the public: one sentence okay

[1:14:24] Member of the public: the co-op landing triple rock

[1:14:27] Member of the public: land cooperative uh rezoning proposals exposed is on

[1:14:32] Member of the public: your agenda for adoption and uh thank you for

[1:14:37] Member of the public: all the work you've done so far and i

[1:14:39] Member of the public: i hope you give it that adoption and then we will celebrate

[1:14:42] Member of the public: there will be four more units of affordable housing on the island.

[1:14:45] Member of the public: Thank you.

[1:14:46] Member of the public: Okay, you've been very patient, so thank you.

[1:14:48] Member of the public: Very short.

[1:14:49] Member of the public: I don't think anyone spoke directly to the character of the Three Ravens

[1:14:53] Member of the public: Collective, which so far is Paul and Tara. They helped us out so much when we were in our time

[1:14:58] Member of the public: of crisis last year, and I just want to say I feel so much care in their project and so much concern

[1:15:05] Voice 31: for everything that's important to continuation of our species, actually. So I just feel like I

[1:15:11] Voice 31: really need to uh grow my support uh okay thank

[1:15:16] Voice 20: you so with that positive comment i'd like to

[1:15:19] Voice 20: bring this to you because we've got a lot of business to go today and so we've got 20 minutes

[1:15:24] Voice 20: allocated we've been well over an hour so i don't i don't want to upset anybody but we kind of have

[1:15:30] Voice 20: to move forward that's okay thanks okay so thank you very much everybody you've been heard so

[1:15:36] Voice 20: So appreciate it and I'm sure you can applaud what happened.

[1:16:24] Voice 37: Maramud.

[1:19:17] Voice 37: Cap David, thank you.

[1:19:19] Voice 37: No, just what I saw on Facebook a little bit.

[1:19:21] Voice 37: I ran into

[1:19:22] Voice 3: Liz Johnson, you know her?

[1:19:24] Voice 37: Yeah.

[1:19:25] Voice 3: She's a neighbor.

[1:19:26] Voice 3: Yeah.

[1:19:26] Voice 37: She was

[1:19:27] Voice 37: very upset about it, so.

[1:19:29] Voice 37: I had no idea what they were doing.

[1:32:15] Voice 37: We're coming back.

[1:32:21] Voice 21: Hello.

[1:32:21] Voice 21: Thank you.

[1:32:25] Voice 20: Come on, kids.

[1:32:26] Voice 20: Thank you.

[1:32:28] Voice 20: All right.

[1:32:29] Voice 20: We are now going to start our meeting.

[1:32:34] Voice 20: And we're going to start with trustee reports.

[1:32:36] Trustee Graham (probable): I'll make it quick.

[1:32:38] Trustee Graham (probable): I did enjoy our last trust council we did in Wai'azoo.

[1:32:43] Trustee Graham (probable): It's a lot of grumbling, but we saved the taxpayer, I'm a taxpayer, a whole bunch of money,

[1:32:47] Trustee Graham (probable): almost $30,000 by meeting on campus.

[1:32:51] Trustee Graham (probable): So that was good.

[1:32:52] Trustee Graham (probable): We had a good, productive meeting, three days,

[1:32:54] Trustee Graham (probable): and I think we got a lot of work done.

[1:32:56] Trustee Graham (probable): That was good.

[1:32:59] Trustee Graham (probable): Thank you.

[1:33:02] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah, so our last trust council meeting was last week.

[1:33:08] Trustee Borthwick: So you can say what I'd say, Thursday of last week.

[1:33:11] Trustee Borthwick: I find the digital meetings very frustrating.

[1:33:15] Trustee Borthwick: I think we do much better when we're able to be in person

[1:33:18] Trustee Borthwick: and his trustees and you know read the room and speak to one another it also you know we had a

[1:33:23] Trustee Borthwick: serious issue of attendance a lot of the trustees and we are towards the end of the term but a lot

[1:33:29] Trustee Borthwick: of trustees were not present for large sections of the meeting which is very frustrating for those

[1:33:34] Trustee Borthwick: of us who make a point of being there and who care deeply about you know making sure that we

[1:33:39] Trustee Borthwick: have things like a quorum uh so there was i definitely had some frustration there nevertheless

[1:33:44] Trustee Borthwick: i think the meeting was otherwise good we talked about a lot of stuff we went through over a lot

[1:33:48] Trustee Borthwick: of things um including uh you know something that's quite close to my heart which was as a

[1:33:54] Trustee Borthwick: first-time trustee i found coming in this term that despite uh having the benefit of getting to

[1:33:59] Trustee Borthwick: speak with past trustees laura shakin is over there um you know and a lot of other people who

[1:34:05] Trustee Borthwick: have a long history with the trust uh there was not a lot of resources for for me as a trustee

[1:34:09] Trustee Borthwick: in coming into this role um and so one of the things that i've been involved in as a working

[1:34:14] Trustee Borthwick: group of trust council is preparing the trustee onboarding um program for next term and trying to

[1:34:20] Trustee Borthwick: make sure that new trustees are and and protect prospective trustees have all the information

[1:34:25] Trustee Borthwick: they need to understand what it is they're getting into uh and and how to execute their their office

[1:34:31] Trustee Borthwick: uh so i was glad to see them sort of moving those things along um and i'm i'm looking forward to

[1:34:37] Trustee Borthwick: to see I know I'm glad to be passing that forth to to future trustees um but yeah I think it was

[1:34:44] Trustee Borthwick: otherwise a good meeting uh and

[1:34:46] Voice 20: yes thank you trustee for I will concur there's a little bit

[1:34:51] Voice 20: of disappointment with the low attendance we have 26 trustees total and there were times that was

[1:34:58] Voice 20: actually one of the people who had to be there in person managing the meeting and there were times

[1:35:01] Voice 20: we had 13 trustees. We almost lost four times during that period. We had six

[1:35:08] tie votes, which was very frustrating for those proponents who were trying to get

[1:35:14] something done because the tie vote was defeated. And we did a couple of issues, both

[1:35:19] sides of the issue, and both

[1:35:20] Voice 20: times there were tie votes, so nothing happened. So a little bit of

[1:35:24] frustration.

[1:35:25] Voice 20: Electronic, yes, it saves money. Yes, technically speaking, there should be 26

[1:35:30] Voice 20: six people in the room because it's easy to get there but it didn't happen so I was a little

[1:35:35] Voice 20: frustrated so I will be a little bit of an issue there otherwise we're kind of wrapping up this

[1:35:42] term as noted we have some projects here on Demmen that ultimately

[1:35:48] Voice 20: we can get concluded if not it'll

[1:35:50] Voice 20: be early into the next term I'm just the last four years on Demmen have been something else

[1:35:57] Voice 20: it's been the best right it has been you know like I chair several local trust committees and

[1:36:03] Voice 20: this is my favorite place to come and I say that sincerely and I know you're not going to vote for

[1:36:11] Voice 20: me so I'm not trying to suck up you know it's been a very engaged community it's been a very

[1:36:17] Voice 20: respectful community you have two great trustees who make my job exceptionally easy um Sam is

[1:36:25] particularly going to

[1:36:25] Voice 20: help me manage the meeting it's uh so you know it's been fun we've got a few

[1:36:31] Voice 20: more meetings to go and i'm looking forward to those two and you know i hope to be blessed to

[1:36:36] Voice 20: be back here next term because this is a fine place and you guys should be very proud of yourself

[1:36:40] Voice 20: so i'll leave it at that so okay so we don't have our electoral director um i guess i can't just

[1:36:48] Voice 20: briefly report we had a joint meeting um with the regional district from the denman army trustees

[1:36:52] Voice 20: I mean, I've got a

[1:36:58] Trustee Borthwick: couple of things that I'll very quickly speak to, I just put my head

[1:37:01] Trustee Borthwick: into the DERA meeting last night and sort of gave a brief thing.

[1:37:04] Trustee Borthwick: We ran through a whole bunch of stuff.

[1:37:06] Trustee Borthwick: The protocol meeting is where the CBRD and the Islands Trust get together, so we renew

[1:37:10] Trustee Borthwick: our joint agreements on how we do business, our shared areas of responsibility, where

[1:37:14] Trustee Borthwick: those interact.

[1:37:17] Trustee Borthwick: The very brief Coles notes, we had a briefing from Inspector Mercer of the RCMP for the

[1:37:22] Trustee Borthwick: the Comox Valley. Generally speaking, the trends on the call out trends on the islands as composed

[1:37:30] Trustee Borthwick: of the greater valley are largely in line, which to their perspective, speaks to a relatively stable

[1:37:36] Trustee Borthwick: situation. We are obviously much less in terms of like violent crime, we're much more on the

[1:37:42] Trustee Borthwick: lines of, you know, domestic disputes and things of that nature. But there is a downward trend

[1:37:47] Trustee Borthwick: this year, as previously, it's been on the rise for the last four years across the valley.

[1:37:52] Trustee Borthwick: And in both the wider valley and on the islands this year,

[1:37:56] Trustee Borthwick: we are currently lower than we were last year.

[1:37:59] Trustee Borthwick: That said, we are about to go into the busiest time of year, July, August.

[1:38:03] Trustee Borthwick: So he said that could all change.

[1:38:07] Trustee Borthwick: There's an animal control referendum coming up that will be based,

[1:38:10] Trustee Borthwick: it will happen at the same time as the municipal election.

[1:38:13] Trustee Borthwick: So it will be determined about bringing Hornby Endowment

[1:38:17] Trustee Borthwick: into the CBRD's animal control programs.

[1:38:22] Trustee Borthwick: We had some discussion of fireworks.

[1:38:23] Trustee Borthwick: I'm not going to go into all of that right now.

[1:38:26] Trustee Borthwick: A bunch of work that's happening on Hornbeam.

[1:38:28] Trustee Borthwick: One of the things that I thought was of particular interest,

[1:38:30] Trustee Borthwick: I think most people in this room probably have a septic system of some kind.

[1:38:34] Trustee Borthwick: You've got a septic field.

[1:38:35] Trustee Borthwick: The CDRD, as of the last two weeks, has a brand new septic rebate program.

[1:38:41] Trustee Borthwick: So you can apply.

[1:38:42] Trustee Borthwick: It is a first-come, first-served.

[1:38:44] Trustee Borthwick: There's a pool of money, but they will give you up to $7,000 rebate

[1:38:47] Trustee Borthwick: on upgrades and maintenance for your septic.

[1:38:51] Trustee Borthwick: was it only 700 i thought it was seven thousand well i was excited

[1:38:55] Trustee Borthwick: you should check apparently i'm bad at taking notes um but i that was my understanding anyways

[1:39:03] Trustee Borthwick: there is some money that potentially can go towards giving your septic field some love

[1:39:08] Trustee Borthwick: that's something that's worth looking into um maybe it's a lot less exciting than i thought

[1:39:12] Trustee Borthwick: it is 700 okay well it's

[1:39:14] Voice 21: seven i'm sorry

[1:39:19] Trustee Borthwick: And yes, as I think, I don't know if anybody here is in the Graham Lake Water District,

[1:39:23] Trustee Borthwick: the referendum on that is coming up in the next little bit. So I'm sure those of you who are in

[1:39:28] Trustee Borthwick: that area know all about that. And yeah, that's, those are the big things. Everything else I think

[1:39:34] Trustee Borthwick: is stuff for you guys. Thanks, Seth.

[1:39:35] Voice 20: Thank you, Trustee Worth. All right, so now we're going to

[1:39:38] Voice 20: move on to page four. So we have local trust committee special meeting minutes dated April

[1:39:46] Voice 20: 17 20 26. did anybody find anything maybe it is usually the minutes all right so by general

[1:39:55] Voice 20: consent we can drop those minutes all right then we have local trust meeting minutes dated may 12

[1:39:59] Voice 20: 20 26 reduction again any cause concern by general consent we can adopt those um so we'll move up to

[1:40:07] Voice 20: page 16th follow-up action list uh are there anything to have it at all people just soon

[1:40:18] Voice 20: you know sometimes things are good all right so now we're in the applications now um so i guess

[1:40:26] Voice 20: for time wise i just wanted to just put it with 12 30 for a half hour break that's sort of that's

[1:40:33] Voice 20: sure all right so so we'll do applications 12 30 we'll take half hour break and we'll

[1:40:37] Voice 20: move on from there so first application on page 26 while at number 256 and 257 for adoption

[1:40:44] Voice 20: And this

[1:40:47] Trustee Borthwick: is just, this is the applicant is Steve Cagliara on behalf of the Denman Conservancy

[1:40:53] Trustee Borthwick: Association.

[1:40:55] Trustee Borthwick: Not on an agenda.

[1:40:57] Trustee Borthwick: Do

[1:40:58] Planner (probable): you want me to give a little intro?

[1:41:00] Planner (probable): So the report in the agenda presents bylaws 256 and 257 for consideration of adoption.

[1:41:08] Planner (probable): Together the bylaws would re-designate and rezone four parcels on Denman from Forestry

[1:41:13] Planner (probable): to conservation a public hearing was held on february 17th 2026 and the ltc gave third

[1:41:20] Planner (probable): reading at that time the bylaws were forwarded to the islands trust executive committee and bylaw

[1:41:25] Planner (probable): number 256 was also sent to the minister both have now received the necessary approvals with

[1:41:30] Planner (probable): ministerial approval for bylaw 256 granted on may 12th bylaw 256 amends the ocp by changing

[1:41:39] Planner (probable): the designation from a sustainable resource to conservation slash recreation and adds four units

[1:41:46] Planner (probable): to the density bank. Bylaw 257 amends the land use bylaw by rezoning three parcels and the forestry

[1:41:55] Planner (probable): portion of the fourth parcel from forestry to conservation. The remaining agricultural portion

[1:42:02] Planner (probable): on that form parcel remains split zone agriculture, consistent with the ALC direction.

[1:42:10] Planner (probable): The bylaws are supported because they're consistent with the policy statement.

[1:42:15] Planner (probable): The required public process has been completed and all the necessary approvals have been received.

[1:42:21] Planner (probable): So the LTC has some alternative options, which would be to request more information,

[1:42:26] Planner (probable): which may delay adoption and potentially require another public hearing or proceed no further and complete the application.

[1:42:32] Planner (probable): staff are recommending that the bylaws be adopted as presented

[1:42:38] Trustee Borthwick: steve clearly wants us to ask for more information i can see

[1:42:44] Trustee Graham (probable): but i kick this off by saying i move that the demo trust committee bylaw 256 cited

[1:42:49] Trustee Graham (probable): stem and our official community plan 2008 amendment number 3 2025 be adopted

[1:42:54] Trustee Graham (probable): i'll second

[1:42:54] Voice 20: that motion for the discussion

[1:42:55] Voice 20: call the question all

[1:42:57] Voice 15: in favor that's carried

[1:43:00] Trustee Borthwick: and i will move that the demin island local trust committee bylaw number 257 cited as

[1:43:05] Trustee Borthwick: demin island land use bylaw 2008 amendment number two 2025 be adopted second question

[1:43:12] Trustee Borthwick: all the question over here carry

[1:43:13] Voice 20: yeah here we go excellent thank you very much okay so we'll move

[1:43:21] Voice 20: on now on page 41 file number 255 254 and 250 for adoption um okay

[1:43:29] Planner (probable): so this is going to sound

[1:43:30] Planner (probable): a bit similar but these two applications are very different but we're running similar process wise

[1:43:36] Planner (probable): so this report presents bylaw number 255 250 and 254 for consideration of adoption if adopted the

[1:43:45] Planner (probable): The bylaws would enable four additional residential units at 5201 Kenman Road, withdraw four units from the OCP density bay,

[1:43:54] Planner (probable): permit secondary to be in all units, and increase permitted floor area for dwellings and outbuildings to support the additional housing.

[1:44:01] Planner (probable): A public hearing was held on February 17th, and the LTC gave third reading.

[1:44:06] Planner (probable): The bylaws were forwarded to Islands Trust D.C. and the Minister, with Bylaw No. 255 receiving approval of the Minister on May 12 on all required approvals now to obtain.

[1:44:19] Planner (probable): Bylaw No. 255 amends the OCP by withdrawing four densities from the Density Bank to support the additional units.

[1:44:26] Planner (probable): Bylaw 250 amends the Land Use Bylaw to permit four additional residential units allow secondary suites.

[1:44:33] Planner (probable): increase the permitted floor area for both dwellings and outbuildings.

[1:44:40] Planner (probable): Bylaw number 254 authorizes a new housing agreement that sets terms for occupancy and

[1:44:46] Planner (probable): affordability, including secondary suites, and establishes monitoring and reporting requirements.

[1:44:52] Planner (probable): The existing housing agreement would be rescinded to avoid duplication and replaced by the new

[1:44:58] Planner (probable): agreement once registered on title.

[1:45:01] Planner (probable): the bylaws are consistent with the policy statement public process is completed

[1:45:05] Planner (probable): and all required approvals have been received so again you can request more information if needed

[1:45:13] Planner (probable): which could require another public hearing or you could receive no further

[1:45:17] Planner (probable): both the application and staff are recommending adoption

[1:45:22] Trustee Graham (probable): just needs to say triple rock represents the gold standard and affordable housing development

[1:45:29] Trustee Graham (probable): that they did themselves they did the right thing they went to the trust they asked his own public

[1:45:34] Trustee Graham (probable): process for i don't know like 15 years or something and that's correct i will move at the

[1:45:40] Trustee Graham (probable): deminal local trust committee bylaw number 255 decided as demin on an official community plan

[1:45:45] Trustee Graham (probable): 2008 and the number two 25 you don't secondly for a discussion call question over here kerry

[1:45:53] Trustee Borthwick: I move that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee By-law No. 250 be cited as Denman

[1:45:58] Trustee Borthwick: Island Land Use By-law 2008, Amendment No. 2, 2024, be adopted.

[1:46:03] Trustee Borthwick: Second.

[1:46:04] Trustee Borthwick: For discussion,

[1:46:05] Trustee Graham (probable): call the question.

[1:46:05] Trustee Graham (probable): All in favor?

[1:46:06] Trustee Graham (probable): Carried.

[1:46:07] Trustee Graham (probable): I move that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee By-law No. 123 be rescinded and

[1:46:12] Trustee Graham (probable): discharged from title upon registration of Housing Agreement By-law No. 254.

[1:46:17] Trustee Graham (probable): Second.

[1:46:18] Trustee Graham (probable): For discussion, call the question.

[1:46:19] Trustee Graham (probable): All in favor?

[1:46:20] Trustee Graham (probable): Carried.

[1:46:21] Trustee Borthwick: I move that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee

[1:46:23] Trustee Borthwick: Bylaw No. 254, cited as

[1:46:25] Trustee Borthwick: Denman Island Housing Agreement Bylaw No. 254

[1:46:27] Trustee Borthwick: 2025, be adopted.

[1:46:29] Trustee Borthwick: Second.

[1:46:30] Trustee Graham (probable): The discussion called the question.

[1:46:31] Trustee Graham (probable): All in favor? That's carried.

[1:46:33] Trustee Graham (probable): Finally, I move that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee

[1:46:35] Trustee Graham (probable): require the applicant, P.E.

[1:46:37] Trustee Graham (probable): R.Z. 254.3,

[1:46:39] Trustee Graham (probable): to provide confirmation to the Local Trust Committee

[1:46:41] Trustee Graham (probable): that the housing agreement has been registered

[1:46:43] Trustee Graham (probable): at the Land Title Office by

[1:46:45] Trustee Graham (probable): August 24, 2026.

[1:46:47] Trustee Graham (probable): Seconded for the discussion.

[1:46:49] Trustee Graham (probable): All in favor? That's carried.

[1:46:51] Trustee Graham (probable): it falls in your course

[1:46:56] Voice 21: hey

[1:46:58] Voice 20: now moving right along as we seem to be um we're at 9.3 page 58 uh pl dp 2025-0268

[1:47:08] Voice 20: hjt agriculture development corporation limit staff report so

[1:47:13] Planner (probable): we're trying to target okay so

[1:47:15] Planner (probable): this report asks bltc to consider deferring issuance of development permit

[1:47:19] Planner (probable): permit PLAP 2025-0268, which is a retroactive application for tree cutting that occurred

[1:47:28] Planner (probable): within DPA 1 at Comox Bluff. The deferral is recommended pending receipt of two items.

[1:47:35] Planner (probable): One is a restoration plan prepared by a qualified professional outlining how vegetation will

[1:47:41] Planner (probable): be re-established to control erosion along the bluff, and a cost estimate for all restoration

[1:47:46] Planner (probable): and monitoring work and then so staff are requesting these items by a specific date

[1:47:51] Planner (probable): September 21st and then the LTC is also asked to require financial security equal to 125 percent

[1:47:57] Planner (probable): of the estimated restoration cost so this is a bylaw enforcement file resulting from

[1:48:03] Planner (probable): unpermitted tree cutting the application relates to approximately 1.7 hectares of vegetation removal

[1:48:10] Planner (probable): or roughly 180 to 200 trees within the DPA fund on a coastal block environment.

[1:48:17] Planner (probable): No buildings or structures have been constructed that we know of.

[1:48:21] Planner (probable): A preliminary geotech report was submitted and generally describes site conditions

[1:48:25] Planner (probable): and confirms that the block is subject to erosion and slope instability.

[1:48:29] Planner (probable): It notes the recent tree removal did not trigger major instability.

[1:48:34] Planner (probable): It does confirm increased exposure of soils and recommends vegetation retention or restoration

[1:48:40] Planner (probable): to reduce erosion risk.

[1:48:42] Planner (probable): However, staff find that the submission does not adequately address DPA 1 guideline 6,

[1:48:49] Planner (probable): which requires retention or replanting of vegetation to control erosion along the top

[1:48:55] Planner (probable): and base of the bank.

[1:48:56] Planner (probable): Because of this, staff cannot confirm compliance at this stage and recommend deferral until

[1:49:01] Planner (probable): a restoration plan is provided.

[1:49:02] Planner (probable): The plan will also inform the required financial security, which is an option under Guideline

[1:49:09] Planner (probable): 9.

[1:49:10] Planner (probable): So the rationale for deferral is that the current information is insufficient to fully

[1:49:14] Planner (probable): assess compliance with DPA requirements or to establish appropriate permit condition

[1:49:19] Planner (probable): security.

[1:49:20] Planner (probable): The alternatives available to the LTC are to deny the application if it doesn't meet

[1:49:26] Planner (probable): meet the guidelines or approve the permit with conditions, for example, without requiring

[1:49:32] Planner (probable): financial security, I think staff are recommending it for all.

[1:49:37] Voice 20: Thank you.

[1:49:38] Voice 20: Is Yannicka

[1:49:38] Planner (probable): with us today?

[1:49:39] Planner (probable): So they were here, but I believe they have left.

[1:49:41] Planner (probable): Okay.

[1:49:43] Planner (probable): All right.

[1:49:44] Planner (probable): Fair enough.

[1:49:46] Trustee Graham (probable): So, trustees.

[1:49:49] Trustee Graham (probable): Yeah, I really appreciate the staff response, but it just spells out ramifications of doing

[1:49:54] Trustee Graham (probable): something like that wandering into a dpa area chocolate a bunch of trees without really knowing

[1:49:58] Trustee Graham (probable): what you're doing and the ramifications of that and subsequently you've got to pay the price you've

[1:50:03] Trustee Graham (probable): got to now re re-establish the uh protection of the slope because if you don't you're going to

[1:50:09] Trustee Graham (probable): be using more than just or of course perfect um and this in terms of talking about there being

[1:50:20] no

[1:50:20] Trustee Borthwick: structures um this doesn't refer to because there are other structures on the property of

[1:50:24] Trustee Borthwick: the whole that weren't permitted previously but this is a separate question yeah

[1:50:28] Planner (probable): this was just

[1:50:28] Planner (probable): talking about within dpa specifically as dpa the comas club area

[1:50:34] Trustee Borthwick: um so this is the point road

[1:50:38] Trustee Borthwick: veneered perspective in here for those who aren't necessarily uh down on your long strings of

[1:50:44] Trustee Borthwick: letters and numbers um yeah i i this is i mean it's been a very serious concern i know a lot of

[1:50:50] Trustee Borthwick: of people on island have been very concerned about the extent of this and definitely intruding

[1:50:54] Trustee Borthwick: into those DPAs. That's what we have them for. It's a serious issue. Certainly, I'm not interested

[1:51:01] in issuing the development permit at this time. And I think that requiring security is a reasonable

[1:51:08] request of the applicants. Too bad that they're not here to speak to it. But

[1:51:14] Trustee Borthwick: I'm happy with the

[1:51:16] Trustee Borthwick: motions as they stand unless my fellow trustee has any other let's do it all right uh i move

[1:51:24] Trustee Borthwick: this is a long one uh i move that the demon island local trust committee defer issuance

[1:51:29] Trustee Borthwick: of development permit pl-dp-2025-0268 pending receipt with following information by september

[1:51:38] Trustee Borthwick: 21st 2026 a restoration plan prepared by a qualified environmental professional brackets

[1:51:45] Trustee Borthwick: qbp registered professional biologists brackets rp bio rp bio professional engineer brackets p

[1:51:53] Trustee Borthwick: inch uh professional landscape artist architect pardon me bcls sla or a member of bc landscape

[1:52:02] Trustee Borthwick: and nursery association bclna identifying all areas where the vegetation has been moved or

[1:52:07] Trustee Borthwick: significantly altered as a result of tree cutting activities the plan shall demonstrate how

[1:52:12] Trustee Borthwick: vegetation will be re-established and maintained to achieve long-term erosion control along the top

[1:52:17] Trustee Borthwick: and face of the bank. The plan shall include planting specifications, implementation,

[1:52:21] Trustee Borthwick: monitoring requirements, and may include appropriate protective measures such as

[1:52:26] Trustee Borthwick: irrigation, replacement planting, fencing, and or deer browse protection where required. And

[1:52:31] Trustee Borthwick: a cost estimate for all proposed restoration works, installation, monitoring, and professional

[1:52:37] Trustee Borthwick: professional inspection activities.

[1:52:39] Trustee Borthwick: Second.

[1:52:40] Trustee Borthwick: Second.

[1:52:41] Trustee Borthwick: Any further discussion?

[1:52:42] Trustee Graham (probable): Call the question.

[1:52:43] Trustee Graham (probable): All in favor?

[1:52:44] Trustee Graham (probable): Carries.

[1:52:46] Trustee Graham (probable): And I move that the Demand on Local Trust Committee require security in an amount equal

[1:52:51] Trustee Graham (probable): to 125% of the estimated cost of implementing restoration plans, including installation,

[1:52:57] Trustee Graham (probable): monitoring, replacement planning, and any associated protective measures to be provided

[1:53:02] Trustee Graham (probable): it in the form of either a certified check or an auto renewing irrevocable excuse me letter

[1:53:08] Trustee Graham (probable): of credit on or before october 21st 2026. for the discussion call

[1:53:14] Trustee Graham (probable): the question let's carry

[1:53:17] Voice 20: all right so we're based on 110 um there's um i know we're 9.4 pl rz 205 that's zero four six

[1:53:31] Voice 20: So

[1:53:31] Planner (probable): this report brings forward the Three Ravens rezoning application for early direction from

[1:53:37] Planner (probable): the LTC.

[1:53:38] Planner (probable): The proposal seeks to amend the land use by-law to permit seven additional dwelling units

[1:53:44] Planner (probable): on the subject property at 4100 Pine Trench Road, increasing total density from one to

[1:53:50] Planner (probable): eight units.

[1:53:50] Planner (probable): staff are recommending the LTC defer preparation of draft bylaws until proposed bylaw 260 and 264

[1:54:00] Planner (probable): so those are the bylaws associated with housing review project have received third reading this

[1:54:05] Planner (probable): is to provide clarity on the future policy framework for density and housing in the meantime

[1:54:11] Planner (probable): staff are also recommending that the LTC request additional information from the applicant prior

[1:54:16] Planner (probable): to first reading this includes confirmation from a qualified professional that on-site

[1:54:20] Planner (probable): wastewater systems are feasible for the proposed density a water management plan demonstrating

[1:54:26] Planner (probable): adequate and potable water supply a fire suppression plan and a conceptual site plan

[1:54:31] Planner (probable): showing building envelopes servicing infrastructure emergency access and environmental protection

[1:54:35] Planner (probable): areas the application proposes a land share limited equity cooperative model with seven

[1:54:41] Planner (probable): new dwellings in a common house along with rainwater harvesting composting toilets and

[1:54:47] Planner (probable): and significant environmental protection areas the proposal aligns in principle with several

[1:54:51] Planner (probable): ocp housing and climate policies key servicing and feasibility details are not yet fully demonstrated

[1:54:59] Planner (probable): staff have identified that the proposal would need to use both policy 12 and the density bank

[1:55:05] Planner (probable): for density allocation if that if we're looking at it under the existing ocp and land use file

[1:55:12] Planner (probable): There are competing in-stream applications that exceed remaining available density under

[1:55:18] Planner (probable): the current framework.

[1:55:19] Planner (probable): So this is one of the reasons that staff are recommending deferring until the housing review

[1:55:24] Planner (probable): project bylaws are further advanced.

[1:55:27] Planner (probable): Additional issues include uncertainty around wastewater capacity, groundwater supply, rainwater

[1:55:33] Planner (probable): system feasibility, and the need for a more detailed concept plan to confirm that the

[1:55:38] Planner (probable): site can support the proposed density.

[1:55:40] and

[1:55:42] Planner (probable): one consideration for the LTC is that staff are recommending these technical studies and

[1:55:48] Planner (probable): legal mechanisms to confirm feasibility and secure long-term commitments. From a planning perspective

[1:55:52] Planner (probable): the LTC is asked to consider a significant increase in density and staff need a reasonable

[1:55:59] Planner (probable): level of assurance that water, wastewater, fire safety and environmental protection measures can

[1:56:04] Planner (probable): function reliably at full build-out. The applicants expressed interest in preserving portions of the

[1:56:09] Planner (probable): site. Covenants are typically the mechanism used to ensure those commitments are secured over time

[1:56:15] Planner (probable): rather than relying on voluntary stewardship and staff are also recommending cost recovery agreement

[1:56:22] Planner (probable): and be a part of the proposal to help designing any covenants and the housing agreement.

[1:56:33] Planner (probable): So the LTC has some options on how to proceed so you can request further information outside of

[1:56:40] Planner (probable): what is recommended by staff direct staff to proceed with drafting the bylaws under the

[1:56:45] Planner (probable): current existing framework or receive the report for information okay

[1:56:52] Voice 20: trustees with us who wants

[1:56:56] Voice 20: to go first i'm

[1:56:57] Trustee Graham (probable): happy the first of us you know we've struggled for years many years to provide

[1:57:03] Trustee Graham (probable): affordable housing and the biggest hurdle of course is having someone give us the plan

[1:57:09] Trustee Graham (probable): That's happened a couple of times, but even then, I mean, after being given land, though

[1:57:15] Trustee Graham (probable): it's been an exhaustive community process to have a result, we still fail because we

[1:57:20] Trustee Graham (probable): have to rely on outside sources to put funds in.

[1:57:23] Trustee Graham (probable): Recently, the outside source, DC Housing, has drained their account and no longer providing

[1:57:29] Trustee Graham (probable): funding for housing.

[1:57:30] Trustee Graham (probable): So we rely on ourselves, our community, on the members who feel strongly in sharing their

[1:57:37] Trustee Graham (probable): their land the fortunate fact that they have land they've gone beyond and above them see that in a

[1:57:43] Trustee Graham (probable): number of situations where where we as a community take the bull by the horn we provide the land we

[1:57:50] Trustee Graham (probable): provide the plan we provide we do the work and voluntar has stepped up um like phenomenally

[1:57:58] Trustee Graham (probable): and said, no, we also need a community for the profit.

[1:58:03] Trustee Graham (probable): We recognize that our community can't attract and house people

[1:58:09] Trustee Graham (probable): of various socioeconomic stratas because of the crazy value of property and land.

[1:58:17] Trustee Graham (probable): And as a community, we miss out on those voices.

[1:58:20] Trustee Graham (probable): We miss out on those young families who are working.

[1:58:22] Trustee Graham (probable): We miss out as a community.

[1:58:24] Trustee Graham (probable): So I am really excited about this application.

[1:58:28] Trustee Graham (probable): I'm a little worried that by deferring the draft bylaws, we're going to miss an opportunity, the window that we're closing.

[1:58:35] Trustee Graham (probable): I appreciate from the staff's perspective, looking at the administration of the bylaw bank and competing.

[1:58:43] Trustee Graham (probable): I know that there's another organization that's trying to do a lot of housing.

[1:58:47] Trustee Graham (probable): But I'm also concerned that as a trust committee, we might be asking some very expensive asks of the applicants.

[1:59:01] Trustee Graham (probable): You know, qualified professionals don't come cheaply, but it's important that we can ensure that development has adequate water to treat this property, et cetera, et cetera.

[1:59:14] Trustee Graham (probable): So those are my initial thoughts.

[1:59:17] Trustee Graham (probable): us. This has been a long time in the working, and I've been putting a lot of thought. And

[1:59:26] Trustee Graham (probable): it's not a perfect application. I mean, some would say, well, it's too far from the center.

[1:59:31] Trustee Graham (probable): But you know what? This is a big island. It's 12 miles long. It's a long, long ways away

[1:59:39] Trustee Graham (probable): from services. But I understand that. And I also just recently came to the realization

[1:59:44] Trustee Graham (probable): of that northern part of the property where you have your property.

[1:59:49] Trustee Graham (probable): That went through quite an emotional rollercoaster.

[1:59:54] Trustee Graham (probable): I mean, it was originally zoned for 22 parcels, all of that land.

[1:59:58] Trustee Graham (probable): And had that gone...

[2:00:00] Trustee Graham (probable): ahead uh the density of course would be much less but as a community we wouldn't have access to

[2:00:05] Trustee Graham (probable): chickadee lake we wouldn't have a 1500 acre furniture park so those are the pluses with the

[2:00:11] Trustee Graham (probable): added density so you always have to balance the fact that yes more density there's an impact

[2:00:17] Trustee Graham (probable): there's also a community benefit to having more people who live here that aren't necessarily

[2:00:23] Trustee Graham (probable): multi-millionaires i love multi-millionaires so you know there's other people out there too

[2:00:27] Trustee Graham (probable): Um, I think that's, that's, that's a, that's a bearer of a trade.

[2:00:32] Trustee Graham (probable): So, what's your mind on this?

[2:00:35] Trustee Graham (probable): That's perfect.

[2:00:36] Trustee Borthwick: Um, so this is, and I have heard, uh, our staff speak to the plan that is before us

[2:00:44] as being one of the most comprehensive that they have seen come forward to support a project

[2:00:49] of this type.

[2:00:51] the applicants did a lot of work uh to to to sniff out you know the

[2:00:56] Trustee Borthwick: the issues the the how

[2:00:59] Trustee Borthwick: things are going to come together um i also know that there are a lot of concerns there are people

[2:01:04] Trustee Borthwick: who who think that this is an inappropriate place for it to be there's concerns about the roads

[2:01:09] Trustee Borthwick: there's a number of concerns i think that uh it's you know those are without merit um however

[2:01:17] Trustee Borthwick: However, and I think a little bit as Trustee Graham was speaking to, this project runs counter to the prevailing philosophy, certainly in North America, but especially in BC over the last 10, 15 years, which is that land is an asset and that that is something that is mostly valuable for the profit that it can hold.

[2:01:42] Trustee Borthwick: The intention of this project, as I see it, is to make land into a home.

[2:01:47] Trustee Borthwick: I think it's also important when we consider density, and there's obviously and very rightly we have a lot of concerns about density on the islands.

[2:01:55] Trustee Borthwick: I think that's an important thing. I think it's also worth it to mention that not all densities are alike.

[2:02:00] Trustee Borthwick: So how we choose to live on the land is as important as how many people choose to live there.

[2:02:05] Trustee Borthwick: um in the time before settlement here first nations were there were by by many reports

[2:02:14] Trustee Borthwick: i've spoken to archaeologists from from the komox there were likely more people living here under

[2:02:19] Trustee Borthwick: that at that time than there are now and they certainly had a less impact a lesser impact on

[2:02:24] Trustee Borthwick: on the land than than we do in many cases as part of how we live times of change that's all well

[2:02:31] Trustee Borthwick: um but i think it's important to to look at this and look at how people are how they are proposing

[2:02:36] Trustee Borthwick: that people live here is quite different than you know lots of large um i i likewise you know i'm

[2:02:47] Trustee Borthwick: keen to see this move through i think one of the big things and and one of the criticisms is well

[2:02:52] Trustee Borthwick: this is in an inconvenient place it's a long way away from services we're all out here i mean i

[2:02:58] Trustee Borthwick: talk about this quite frequently everyone who's chosen to live on an island is someone who has

[2:03:02] Trustee Borthwick: already pre-selected as someone who wants a moat between them and the rest of humanity. We like

[2:03:07] Trustee Borthwick: some space. There are a lot of places that vary very successfully where people live together

[2:03:12] Trustee Borthwick: closely as well. I would argue in this time when we were looking at a place where we're looking

[2:03:21] Trustee Borthwick: for places to do this kind of living, which there is an appetite for, there are people who want to

[2:03:26] Trustee Borthwick: live in this way, want to live collaboratively and live lightly on the land as is proposed in

[2:03:31] Trustee Borthwick: this plan um that part of the challenge and it's all very well i'm going to say well it's a long

[2:03:36] Trustee Borthwick: way away but the reality is there's only so many properties who are ever going to be interested in

[2:03:41] Trustee Borthwick: doing something like this and i think that when people come forward and choose to make a gift

[2:03:47] of the place that they live

[2:03:49] Trustee Borthwick: to create something of this nature we should you know take that in

[2:03:53] Trustee Borthwick: the spirit that it exists and people spoke to this in town hall as well so i'm uh keen to not

[2:03:59] Trustee Borthwick: I think there's also been some really good discussion around, you know, I think it is important and I understand where staff are coming from and wanting to verify the information.

[2:04:07] Trustee Borthwick: I also know that the applicants have done a lot of work to answer those questions and that a lot of those plans, water management plan, wastewater, are things that are, you know, partly under the jurisdiction of other bodies than the Islands Trust.

[2:04:21] Trustee Borthwick: And they can be done on a case-by-case basis as this gets built out.

[2:04:25] Trustee Borthwick: um so i you know with with you know respect to the people who you

[2:04:31] Trustee Borthwick: know have opposition to this

[2:04:33] Trustee Borthwick: i think that this is a really good plan and i i would encourage people to to you know take some

[2:04:38] Trustee Borthwick: heart from the let's not move forward from a place of fear let's let's the the when we fear

[2:04:46] Trustee Borthwick: what might happen what the impact might be we deny the potential of what could also be wonderful

[2:04:51] Trustee Borthwick: And I think it's really important for us to, you know, especially when someone has got a really good plan, we shouldn't deny the potential of that, of it being really a beautiful place.

[2:05:02] Trustee Borthwick: And Coho speaks to this. There were a lot of people who had a lot of concerns about Coho.

[2:05:06] Trustee Borthwick: And I will say that I think Coho is an incredible, incredible example of how people can live collaboratively on this island.

[2:05:13] Trustee Borthwick: And it's a great example. And this is very much in that same tradition.

[2:05:16] sheet so i i'm keen to support this

[2:05:19] Trustee Graham (probable): and i would like to move forward in a good way

[2:05:23] Trustee Graham (probable): so if i was to move to have staff uh

[2:05:40] Voice 37: hello

[2:05:42] Voice 4: my name is tara parkinson um dear devon island trustees and planners

[2:05:47] Voice 4: Thank you for preparing the preliminary staff report for Three Ravens application and for

[2:05:52] Voice 4: the time and care that staff and trustees have devoted to reviewing the proposal.

[2:05:56] Voice 4: If the Denman Housing Review Project gets passed third reading by September 2026, then

[2:06:01] Voice 4: we agree with Planner McCarter's recommendation to delay working on the Three Ravens LUB changes.

[2:06:07] Voice 4: We want to highlight a concern regarding the potential costs of additional studies and

[2:06:12] Voice 4: reports.

[2:06:12] Voice 4: points. Three Ravens is a small, non-profit, limited equity land share housing cooperative.

[2:06:19] Voice 4: We are funding the rezoning process ourselves from personal savings, and we are low income.

[2:06:25] Voice 4: If approved, we intend to transfer our property, which is our equity, into a community-

[2:06:30] Voice 4: into a community-owned housing non-profit. I'm not sure where I'm at with that.

[2:06:39] Voice 4: That would create eight veteran-reformable homes for down-to-residence.

[2:06:42] Voice 4: Unlike a conventional development proposal, the

[2:06:46] Voice 4: purpose of this rezoning is not to increase

[2:06:49] Voice 4: the market value for property.

[2:06:52] Voice 4: The purpose is to create a potentially affordable home ownership that remains affordable for

[2:06:56] Voice 4: future generations.

[2:07:00] Voice 4: Throughout the application process, we looked to Coho Landing as our closest local resident.

[2:07:06] Voice 4: Coho has successfully operated on Denman for about 15 years using a limited equity cooperative

[2:07:11] Voice 4: structure and affordability protections.

[2:07:13] Voice 4: members build their own homes, rainwater catchment with cisterns and composting toilets with approved septic.

[2:07:21] Voice 4: We believe Coho demonstrates that this type of community-oriented housing model can function successfully on Denman

[2:07:27] Voice 4: while remaining consistent with the Islands Trust affordable housing objectives.

[2:07:32] Voice 4: For that reason, we respectfully ask that any future information requirements be proportional

[2:07:37] Voice 4: to both the scale of the project and the demonstrated local precedent that already

[2:07:43] Voice 4: exists on Denman. Many of the matters identified in the staff report, such as septic approvals,

[2:07:49] Voice 4: drinking water systems, and building design, fall under the jurisdiction of other provincial

[2:07:55] Voice 4: agencies and permitting authorities. Individual members will ultimately be responsible for

[2:08:00] Voice 4: obtaining the approvals required for their homes and infrastructure, just as has occurred at Coho

[2:08:05] Voice 4: Coho and elsewhere on Denman. In our main document, we use the same septic report wording

[2:08:11] Voice 4: that was in Coho's recent rezoning written by Steve Carpillera, Coho's former septic

[2:08:17] Voice 4: professional, with permissions. We have also met with the Denman Island Fire Chief regarding

[2:08:24] Voice 4: emergency access. We understand the importance of ensuring safe access for emergency responders

[2:08:30] Voice 4: and intend to incorporate the recommendations provided during the site visit, including

[2:08:35] Voice 4: including driveway access standards, signage, and emergency mapping.

[2:08:40] Voice 4: There are two 5,000-gallon fire suppression cisterns with standpipes

[2:08:44] Voice 4: within one kilometer of the property in the Parklands neighborhood.

[2:08:49] Voice 4: Given the existing local fire protection infrastructure

[2:08:51] Voice 4: and the Fire Chief's site-specific recommendations,

[2:08:55] Voice 4: we hope that any future fire-related requirements can remain practical

[2:08:59] Voice 4: and proportional to the scale of three-drailers.

[2:09:02] Voice 4: We are committed to providing information that is useful to the ILS Trust in evaluating

[2:09:08] Voice 4: the land use aspects of the proposal.

[2:09:11] Voice 4: In particular, we intend to prepare a detailed conceptual site plan showing proposed exclusive

[2:09:17] Voice 4: use areas, protected forest areas, access routes, common spaces, and other relevant

[2:09:24] Voice 4: land use features.

[2:09:25] Voice 4: We also intend to identify conceptual locations for homes, cisterns, and septic areas to assist

[2:09:32] Voice 4: staff and trustees in understanding how the cooperative could function on the property.

[2:09:38] Voice 4: We are also committed to protecting significant portions of the property.

[2:09:42] Voice 4: Approximately two-thirds of the land is expected to remain undeveloped forest.

[2:09:48] Voice 4: Given the financial realities of an affordable, non-profit housing cooperative, we hope that

[2:09:53] Voice 4: protection mechanisms can be achieved through planning tools that do not require costly

[2:09:59] Voice 4: surveys, costly covenants, or ongoing administrative expenses.

[2:10:04] Voice 4: Most importantly, we want to emphasize that we are committed to working collaboratively with the staff, trustees, and the community throughout this process.

[2:10:12] Voice 4: We understand that the Islands Trust must balance affordable housing objectives with environmental protection, community character, and public input.

[2:10:21] Voice 4: We appreciate that responsibility and are grateful for the opportunity to collaborate.

[2:10:27] Voice 4: We also wish to acknowledge the many people who have taken the time to participate in this rezoning application process,

[2:10:34] Voice 4: whether in support of the project or expressing concerns.

[2:10:38] Voice 4: Community input is an important part of the Islands Trust process,

[2:10:43] Voice 4: and we appreciate the level of interest that Three Ravens has generated.

[2:10:47] Voice 4: Thank you for your consideration and for allowing us to speak today.

[2:10:51] Trustee Graham (probable): Thank you.

[2:10:54] Trustee Graham (probable): Yeah, I'm just looking at the first recommendation that suggested that we wait to draft a by-law

[2:11:00] Trustee Graham (probable): for our housing review by-laws to receive third degree.

[2:11:05] Trustee Graham (probable): This simplifies the creation of the densities and it also simplifies the application requirements.

[2:11:13] Trustee Graham (probable): It wouldn't require a public hearing because we would have enabling policies baked into

[2:11:18] Trustee Graham (probable): our by-laws in a much easier process.

[2:11:20] Trustee Graham (probable): 16. On the other hand, we don't know when 30 is going to happen. So that's, that's a real, you know, cat and mouse situation. So that's what I'm saying. I'm actually leaning towards asking staff to prepare those first draft by prior to receiving 30 to 60 to 64. And I'm wondering if we can use the policy 12, which gives us the 5%.

[2:11:50] Planner (probable): there's not enough density in there

[2:11:52] Trustee Graham (probable): the five percent is inspired well

[2:11:54] Planner (probable): it's not expired

[2:11:55] Planner (probable): entirely but um just given that there's another application that's also competing for there's not

[2:12:01] Planner (probable): enough densities for both applications so no other way to create this well we would it would

[2:12:07] Planner (probable): be an ocp amendment it just that's why it's triggered yeah so it's just um a lot of work

[2:12:14] Planner (probable): for staff for something that is proposed to be changed if you're uncomfortable with the

[2:12:22] Planner (probable): third reading language you could change it to september 15th and if everybody is not given

[2:12:29] Planner (probable): on september 15th then that would be to trigger for staff to like that's sort of what the report

[2:12:34] Planner (probable): says is once once these if these bylaws proceed through public hearing and third reading on

[2:12:40] Planner (probable): september 15th that gives staff a lot of confidence in the direction that the ltc is going but at this

[2:12:46] Planner (probable): time when they're just at first reading we don't have that level of confidence to draft bylaws

[2:12:51] Planner (probable): based on a proposed so that september marker is um that's check that's a guess that's a guess but

[2:13:00] Planner (probable): it might not and if it does you know if it doesn't proceed at that point then yeah we would just

[2:13:04] Planner (probable): draft based on the existing that

[2:13:06] Trustee Graham (probable): that still gives us enough time theoretically to have a community

[2:13:10] Trustee Graham (probable): information meeting with your public hearing center before yeah the end of the term for this

[2:13:17] Trustee Graham (probable): project no no well thank you for your time i appreciate that i

[2:13:24] Planner (probable): don't think there's actually

[2:13:25] Planner (probable): any scenario no this particular project yeah that's

[2:13:30] Voice 20: that's fair so if we schedule an august

[2:13:35] Voice 20: meeting to advance there

[2:13:37] Planner (probable): is an august meeting so in august there's a meeting on august 24th

[2:13:44] Voice 20: so yeah so basically we're fast tracking stuff as fast as we can and there's no interventions

[2:13:51] Voice 20: that we can do to increase the skids

[2:13:55] Trustee Graham (probable): any more than that when's the 90-day referral

[2:13:58] Trustee Graham (probable): on our housing policies and regulation

[2:14:03] Trustee Graham (probable): oh when is that

[2:14:06] Planner (probable): up it's uh mid-august so we're you know in an ideal situation hoping to bring

[2:14:14] Planner (probable): the referral comments forward at the august 24th meeting right um and it would be great to get

[2:14:20] Planner (probable): second reading at that time yeah yeah just we just never know how we haven't seen those rules so

[2:14:27] Planner (probable): we don't know that's right okay okay i mean i i think uh i'm i i like the concept of of changing

[2:14:35] third reading to september 15th because then it sort of builds in a specific timeline um and i i

[2:14:42] I, you know, you guys have talked about, you know,

[2:14:46] Trustee Borthwick: it's worth it potentially to wait to do those things, to not have to go through a more lengthy process if it's going to be done otherwise.

[2:14:55] Trustee Borthwick: And certainly I know for staff, it obviously saves a lot of work.

[2:14:59] Trustee Borthwick: I mean, I don't necessarily share your skepticism that we'll get to third reading before the end of the term.

[2:15:06] Trustee Borthwick: I hope we do. And I'm certainly, you know, intending to take that direction.

[2:15:11] Trustee Borthwick: But obviously we have a process still to go through and that may introduce new things.

[2:15:15] Trustee Borthwick: So I want to be respectful of that as well.

[2:15:18] Trustee Borthwick: But I think if that September 15th sort of trigger is an acceptable one, as opposed to

[2:15:26] specifically third reading, that will still allow staff to sort of proceed with the work

[2:15:31] Trustee Borthwick: to the appropriate point and that we know that we'll go further from it.

[2:15:36] Trustee Borthwick: if i'm understanding everything correctly i know it's not perfect but i think this is we've got to

[2:15:43] Trustee Borthwick: we do have a process to uphold we've got to go through you know in a in the correct way but i

[2:15:48] Trustee Borthwick: think this does allow us to continue to keep some momentum um without creating extra work for

[2:15:55] Trustee Borthwick: ourselves along the way

[2:15:57] Voice 20: that's a

[2:15:58] Trustee Graham (probable): good compromise so

[2:15:59] Voice 20: recommendation one i'll amend that with

[2:16:03] Voice 20: amended okay so recommendation two i don't know if we want to yeah so i think we should talk

[2:16:09] Voice 20: through it no no i'm

[2:16:10] Voice 20: totally with

[2:16:11] Trustee Borthwick: you um i mean i think as tara was just speaking to there there are

[2:16:19] Trustee Borthwick: uh provisions for a lot of the concerns that are in this and i i do appreciate staff sort of wanting

[2:16:25] Trustee Borthwick: to to make sure that we're doing our due diligence there these are things that will be ultimately

[2:16:29] Trustee Borthwick: managed by other bodies uh and i presume as a part of that process that there will be referral

[2:16:35] Trustee Borthwick: to us as part of those processes i'm not sure well

[2:16:37] Planner (probable): we would definitely be referring this application

[2:16:40] Planner (probable): yes to either

[2:16:41] Planner (probable): health and um yeah for

[2:16:44] Trustee Borthwick: sure and then that's that's that's their jurisdiction i

[2:16:49] Trustee Borthwick: i mean i'm i have seen this and i know that people who know a lot more than me about these processes

[2:16:56] Trustee Borthwick: have seen this, and they, you know, I haven't seen a great deal of concern about that.

[2:17:06] Trustee Borthwick: You know, I think there's a lot of confidence in the plan as it exists currently.

[2:17:11] Trustee Borthwick: So I would be happy to move forward without some of these requirements, but I do want

[2:17:18] Trustee Borthwick: to make sure that we're doing this as a committee.

[2:17:24] Trustee Borthwick: well

[2:17:24] Trustee Graham (probable): i think we owe we have a responsibility to the neighboring properties to at least

[2:17:30] Trustee Graham (probable): we need some we need confirmation from a qualified professional regarding the

[2:17:34] Trustee Graham (probable): how to get conditions to support waste water systems compliant with ecstasy i mean we owe it

[2:17:40] Trustee Graham (probable): to them and that's that's a bottom line from my perspective i tend to agree with

[2:17:46] Trustee Graham (probable): which has trustee for shaking them at the water management plan, you know,

[2:17:50] Trustee Graham (probable): these, these self-regulated self-creating entities, you know,

[2:17:56] Trustee Graham (probable): you've got your little house and you've got your sister and we're going to

[2:17:59] Trustee Graham (probable): run out of water. Well, we'll do another system. We need more,

[2:18:02] Trustee Graham (probable): we need more storage.

[2:18:03] Trustee Graham (probable): We need to build an outbuilding so we can get that water too.

[2:18:06] Trustee Graham (probable): This is what Islanders do. This is what we do. We may,

[2:18:09] Trustee Graham (probable): we manage our own systems.

[2:18:11] Trustee Graham (probable): A lot of these requirements come from more traditional developments where

[2:18:15] Trustee Graham (probable): there isn't anybody doing that and it's a system that requires that kind of system approach and

[2:18:20] Trustee Graham (probable): modifications by a professional but i don't have a problem with not asking for a water management

[2:18:29] Trustee Graham (probable): plan that's for sure um and i think the fire suppression plan is probably handled locally

[2:18:35] Trustee Graham (probable): i think we can handle that with our own our own amazing fire department and the chiefs there and

[2:18:40] Trustee Graham (probable): the people that work that so that's i'm pretty comfortable with just asking for the adequate

[2:18:45] Trustee Graham (probable): conditions for it looks like yeah that's right yeah i think that's so a you would like to cheat

[2:18:53] Trustee Graham (probable): with the other team though yeah so that we could change the working slightly to make that a little

[2:18:59] Trustee Graham (probable): more condensed i imagine but so staff want to comment on those uh suggestions uh not more

[2:19:09] Planner (probable): really than i've already commented and i think it's just yeah it's granting density on a parcel

[2:19:14] Planner (probable): that we can know for sure that it can support so

[2:19:18] Trustee Graham (probable): we have this beautiful experience with coho

[2:19:23] Trustee Graham (probable): no water let's hit their own one

[2:19:25] Planner (probable): yeah i will say that this you know when coho had their initial

[2:19:30] Planner (probable): design back in 2003 or four they they were actually required to prove that the groundwater

[2:19:36] Planner (probable): could support all of the dwellings in the hydro geological study and um even though they had that

[2:19:43] Planner (probable): even at that time they weren't going to use but things have changed and we're not asking them to

[2:19:47] Planner (probable): prove that the groundwater can support still all the density but and

[2:19:52] Trustee Borthwick: we do have evidence in the

[2:19:53] Trustee Borthwick: form of coho that that that level of waterproof was not in the end required okay

[2:20:01] Voice 20: so yeah motion

[2:20:02] Voice 20: number three um

[2:20:05] Trustee Graham (probable): that's the cost of recovery ready to be drafting a housing agreement

[2:20:19] Trustee Graham (probable): So they

[2:20:20] Planner (probable): do have a, with their initial rezoning, there is a covenant on the land that prohibits

[2:20:27] Planner (probable): tree cutting in certain areas.

[2:20:30] Planner (probable): But this was, so the applicant has identified that there are significant areas on the property

[2:20:35] Planner (probable): that they are, I know they're good environmental stewards and that they are interested in protecting.

[2:20:39] Planner (probable): And so this is just a way to formalize that.

[2:20:42] Planner (probable): Otherwise, it's sort of voluntary stewardship.

[2:20:45] Planner (probable): You can't bake that into their housing agreement?

[2:20:47] Planner (probable): Not the housing agreement, but there is ways, you know, through zoning that we could look at buffers, you know, setback kind of things.

[2:20:57] Planner (probable): But I could explore that more.

[2:20:58] Planner (probable): The tool that I know well is the covenant tool.

[2:21:02] Planner (probable): But

[2:21:03] Trustee Graham (probable): cooperatives also have to have their own set of rules.

[2:21:05] Trustee Graham (probable): Yes.

[2:21:06] Trustee Graham (probable): when you register a cooperative you get to put your rules we don't

[2:21:09] Planner (probable): have control over that or we

[2:21:12] Planner (probable): so with coho we had with the last housing agreement um they had attached their rules to it

[2:21:19] Planner (probable): and they've requested this time that they no longer do and the ltc agreed for that because

[2:21:24] Planner (probable): it was really challenging as

[2:21:26] Trustee Graham (probable): an organization would they not use that document to ensure

[2:21:31] Trustee Graham (probable): to make sure that the people that live there abide by it?

[2:21:34] Trustee Graham (probable): They could, but it just

[2:21:36] Planner (probable): doesn't give the LTC any assurance that that would, in fact, happen.

[2:21:42] Planner (probable): But I could explore other opportunities outside of Previdence.

[2:21:48] Voice 20: Yeah, it's so much more expensive.

[2:21:51] Voice 20: Motion screen, is that, in your mind, time-sensitive, or can that be dealt with in September?

[2:21:58] Voice 20: um

[2:21:58] Planner (probable): at some

[2:22:01] Trustee Graham (probable): later documents well i

[2:22:04] Planner (probable): mean the housing agreement they can start working on it i think

[2:22:07] Planner (probable): that they have indicated that they'd like to do the drafting themselves and then they'll send it

[2:22:11] Planner (probable): to us to review and then we'll send it to our legal so it's yeah it's not something that has

[2:22:17] Planner (probable): to happen today that will hold us up that will prevent them from starting to draft but we're

[2:22:21] Trustee Borthwick: going to need to do that regardless so there's no harm in making that motion now i wouldn't

[2:22:27] Trustee Borthwick: think but um so motion four is talking about uh largely about the covenant and that is that

[2:22:39] Trustee Borthwick: i'm reading this graphic yeah like three

[2:22:41] Trustee Borthwick: is the is the

[2:22:41] Planner (probable): cost recovery agreement exactly and then

[2:22:43] Planner (probable): four is the the covenant itself yeah um and that was you know not just an ecological protection

[2:22:52] Planner (probable): covenant necessarily but in the staff report it it looks you know you can um make very specific

[2:22:57] Planner (probable): requirements on like light pollution or you know like there's other things that you can bake into

[2:23:03] Planner (probable): a covenant but we could also explore doing that in the zoning as well.

[2:23:09] Okay

[2:23:11] Trustee Graham (probable): yeah so we'll get to five.

[2:23:18] Trustee Borthwick: So this is a site plan now I think you guys have a conceptual site

[2:23:22] Trustee Borthwick: plan already.

[2:23:24] Trustee Graham (probable): So we're going to give a very the site plan that's been provided to the Islands

[2:23:30] Trustee Graham (probable): trust was essentially the one that was asked for it was a very simple site plan we're planning to

[2:23:35] Trustee Graham (probable): get a detailed site plan with detailing basically the two-thirds of the property we're protecting

[2:23:42] Trustee Graham (probable): but also everything else with layers on it digitally so it'll be thorough and i've talked

[2:23:49] Planner (probable): with the applicants about like i understand that they're not going to know exactly where every

[2:23:53] Planner (probable): building is going to sit but just sort of a general idea so that we can get a sense of the

[2:23:59] Planner (probable): scale of development because right now they're just sort of these you know shapes on the map so

[2:24:03] Planner (probable): that was yeah yeah yeah

[2:24:07] Trustee Graham (probable): okay yeah should we start sure good i'll move that the demo on a local trust

[2:24:15] Trustee Graham (probable): committee defer preparation of a draft bylaw to amend them on a land use bylaw 2008 to rezone

[2:24:22] Trustee Graham (probable): on Block 5, Sections 25 and 30, Denman Island, Nanaimo District Plan BIP 89027 until September

[2:24:30] Trustee Graham (probable): 15.

[2:24:33] Trustee Graham (probable): Second.

[2:24:34] Voice 22: Okay.

[2:24:35] Voice 22: Move to discussion.

[2:24:36] Trustee Graham (probable): Call the question.

[2:24:37] Trustee Borthwick: All in favor?

[2:24:37] Trustee Graham (probable): Okay.

[2:24:39] Trustee Borthwick: So this one is the one that needs the most massaging.

[2:24:42] Trustee Borthwick: We just...

[2:24:47] Trustee Borthwick: Here.

[2:24:56] Voice 21: Now, I

[2:25:00] Trustee Borthwick: might just take a quick second and type this up so that I can not completely...

[2:25:05] Trustee Borthwick: I think you can just read it as A.

[2:25:06] Trustee Borthwick: Sure.

[2:25:07] Trustee Borthwick: Sure, it just feels messy. Just feels messy. But I mean, you're right. Yeah, if you give

[2:25:20] Trustee Borthwick: me a quick second, I'm going to do this in a way that feels less clunky to me. Indulge

[2:25:28] Trustee Borthwick: my pickiness.

[2:25:31] Trustee Graham (probable): Nicholas Alberson- It is not the best to pass the 30 because

[2:26:08] Voice 37: of this triple checking

[2:26:11] Voice 37: Nicholas Alberson-

[2:26:20] Trustee Borthwick: Email to Charlotte. Sorry. Oh, yeah, I can. Yeah, we can take a break and I can email it to and I can show you and maybe you can make sure that you think it's

[2:26:30] Trustee Borthwick: Nicholas Alberson- I'm sure it's fine, but you

[2:26:32] Planner (probable): don't want to steal the application and then take your lunch. Yeah,

[2:26:35] Trustee Borthwick: I'm happy. I'm happy to

[2:26:36] Trustee Borthwick: Nicholas Alberson- Move through. I would. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, so then I'm going to go with what I got.

[2:26:40] Trustee Borthwick: Okay, hopefully this all makes some sense. I move that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee request the applicant for PL-RZ-2025-0464, brackets, three ravens,

[2:27:04] Trustee Borthwick: Submit confirmation from a qualified professional with a subject property as adequate conditions to support wastewater systems compliant with the BC sewage sewerage system regulation under the Health Act for the proposed increase in density to the local committee prior to first reading of the proposed land use amendment bylaw being considered.

[2:27:22] Trustee Borthwick: Second.

[2:27:23] Trustee Borthwick: A question or a favor?

[2:27:25] Voice 20: I can send it to Lisa.

[2:27:29] Voice 20: So Lisa it will be emailed to you if you didn't catch it.

[2:27:31] Voice 20: so all right so second question all in favor yeah that carries all right now we get back to the easy

[2:27:37] Voice 20: purpose yeah

[2:27:38] Trustee Graham (probable): um so i'll move that the demina local trust committee requests the applicant

[2:27:43] Trustee Graham (probable): the lrz 2025 over six fourths of the ravens entered into a positive recovery

[2:27:48] Trustee Graham (probable): agreement balance just for the purposes of drafting a housing agreement ecological

[2:27:52] Trustee Graham (probable): protection covenant any additional covenants required to secure lpc during

[2:27:57] Trustee Graham (probable): second second discussion call the question on paper that's very um now this is the question

[2:28:05] we were talking about cabinets yeah and i know uh the question my sense was that we were leaning

[2:28:11] away from

[2:28:12] Trustee Borthwick: potentially requiring a covenant but i want to just make sure that that's what you're

[2:28:16] Trustee Borthwick: thinking too well

[2:28:17] Trustee Graham (probable): the only thing we heard was that we need something from the local government's

[2:28:22] Trustee Graham (probable): perspective well we it's not really

[2:28:25] Trustee Graham (probable): that is our

[2:28:26] Planner (probable): discretion it's just if you want to secure

[2:28:29] Planner (probable): any sort of environmental protection on the site um the way i know how to do it is through a

[2:28:34] Planner (probable): covenant but i can explore so you could make the language a little bit more or we can just

[2:28:40] Trustee Graham (probable): leave it up to the people who don't live

[2:28:42] Planner (probable): there i live on acreage and we as a group chose to

[2:28:48] protect even stronger language than they are that's trusted

[2:28:51] Trustee Graham (probable): so sometimes people that inhabit

[2:28:55] Trustee Graham (probable): the place and love the place and nurture the place they take a higher standard of protection

[2:29:00] Trustee Graham (probable): this is not a regular subject this is a land sharing opportunity it comes with its own set of

[2:29:07] Trustee Graham (probable): advantages from a ecological perspective how did you go it's like policies how did coho do it once

[2:29:13] Trustee Graham (probable): as a whole?

[2:29:14] Voice 33: We do have a covenants. Yeah and I mean it's not really about ecological volumes,

[2:29:21] Voice 33: it was a buffer, a 30 meter buffer around the neighboring properties. We're touching the,

[2:29:27] Voice 33: not the

[2:29:28] Voice 22: road, but the other properties and I think it had a lot to do with privacy and then we also

[2:29:37] Voice 22: really, we had a site plan registered somewhere but also just to make sure that we wouldn't

[2:29:41] Voice 22: cluster um

[2:29:43] Voice 33: but and it was very simple so if you can go that route um maybe you could even get

[2:29:48] Voice 33: some of the language from ours but there's another way to to include it and yeah and i will say and

[2:29:55] Voice 33: i'm sorry is it kind of working

[2:30:00] Voice 33: it's your interest and I support your project like the thing about just trusting the residents

[2:30:04] Voice 33: is that people are unpredictable and things change and so um you know although

[2:30:14] Voice 11: I would like

[2:30:16] Voice 11: there's well that has not come up with the 30 meter proper like it's no problem for us but we

[2:30:21] Voice 11: do consider that on that when we're studying we're like does anyone measure the 30 meter

[2:30:25] Voice 11: but the

[2:30:27] Trustee Graham (probable): truth is covenants don't protect anything if the trees were whacked by

[2:30:31] Trustee Graham (probable): disgruntled so it sounds like it's good protection it doesn't really mean anything

[2:30:36] Trustee Graham (probable): if the people don't buy in i think i think agreements work

[2:30:40] Trustee Graham (probable): better for me

[2:30:41] Trustee Graham (probable): legal document that people they are so argue whereas agreements you can hold your name

[2:30:48] Trustee Graham (probable): like you said we agreed that we weren't going to whack those trees anyway that's where i'm coming

[2:30:55] Trustee Graham (probable): yeah i would leave that ecological protection going out for a second can

[2:30:59] Voice 23: we make a friendly

[2:31:00] Voice 23: suggestion thank you thank you is it possible that the trust stipulates that there is an agreement

[2:31:10] Voice 23: about the ecological thing that the co-op makes where

[2:31:15] Trustee Graham (probable): would it rest this is what's going to be

[2:31:17] Trustee Graham (probable): discussing it doesn't resonate you would

[2:31:21] Voice 6: not have the power to say

[2:31:22] Voice 23: about what exactly those

[2:31:25] Voice 23: ecological values and how they were expressed but that there was an agreement within the call

[2:31:31] Voice 23: you would have the

[2:31:32] Trustee Graham (probable): same kind of effect it could still be broken by at the struggle

[2:31:38] Planner (probable): the thing about the covenant is it gives it gives the ltc then the authority to enforce

[2:31:44] Planner (probable): Yes, right. So

[2:31:47] Trustee Graham (probable): it's not for nothing. If it's broken, I didn't mean to be disrespectful. All I'm saying is when you're looking at a clear cut. When are you enforcing on him? We've seen this time and time again.

[2:32:00] Trustee Graham (probable): So there's really no way of obtaining anything unless you trust the person living beside you.

[2:32:07] Voice 20: That's just the reality. Do you want to pause the consideration of this to the next meeting?

[2:32:14] Trustee Borthwick: I think at

[2:32:15] Trustee Borthwick: this point we don't need to go that route, but it's certainly something we can discuss further, but I think for now we don't have a thing there. But I'm happy to make the motion about a conceptual site plan.

[2:32:26] Trustee Borthwick: Okay.

[2:32:28] Trustee Borthwick: Oh, right. Yeah, sorry. We still need to have it.

[2:32:30] Trustee Borthwick: Pardon me.

[2:32:34] Trustee Borthwick: So,

[2:32:34] Trustee Borthwick: so stop well let me see so if we're requesting staff oh no because if we request staff to create

[2:32:42] Trustee Borthwick: a covenant then we're you guys are gonna have to potentially pay for it through the cost recovery

[2:32:45] Trustee Borthwick: so okay um i move the demo and local trust committee request staff to prepare for ltc

[2:32:52] Trustee Borthwick: consideration a housing agreement uh uh to secure ltc supported uh environmental housing and site

[2:33:05] Trustee Borthwick: design objectives so i think you just period housing okay a housing agreement period yeah

[2:33:10] Trustee Borthwick: okay perfect yeah i'll

[2:33:11] Voice 20: check on that for the discussion of the question that carries

[2:33:16] Trustee Graham (probable): and number five sure uh i moved them on a local trust committee request of the applicant

[2:33:21] Trustee Graham (probable): the lr said 25.64 three grade and submit a conceptual site plan prior to first reading

[2:33:28] Trustee Graham (probable): illustrating proximate building envelopes accessory structures common house cistern

[2:33:33] Trustee Graham (probable): fire suppression, storage, wastewater, system modifications, access and emergency vehicle

[2:33:37] Trustee Graham (probable): circulation, and delineation of environmental protection areas, buffers, and no-build areas,

[2:33:43] Trustee Graham (probable): to demonstrate that the proposed density can be accommodated on the site.

[2:33:47] Trustee Graham (probable): I second that.

[2:33:48] Trustee Graham (probable): For the discussion, we'll call the question. Okay, that carries.

[2:33:53] All right, so we're overdue for a break. So it's 1240. Do you want to come back at 1 or

[2:34:00] target 110 110 so we'll be coming back at 110 um at

[2:34:05] Voice 20: the next uh what it is

[3:07:00] Voice 37: all right we will come back to order hopefully

[3:07:05] Voice 20: well there you go i have two trustees

[3:07:12] Voice 20: so we are moving on to 9.5 on page 157 it's d e arts at 20.3.1

[3:07:19] almost ranch stash report and we have planner i'm going to test your name up because

[3:07:26] because I'm more of a person.

[3:07:27] Voice 20: The bobolist?

[3:07:30] Voice 20: Margot.

[3:07:31] Voice 20: Thaumatis.

[3:07:31] Voice 20: Thaumatis.

[3:07:32] Planner Thomaidis: Margot Thaumatis.

[3:07:33] Voice 20: At least you have one trustee who knows how to say it.

[3:07:39] Voice 20: Welcome, Margot.

[3:07:41] Voice 20: Thank you.

[3:07:41] Voice 20: And over to you, please.

[3:07:43] Voice 20: And we've got you on the monitor in the back here.

[3:07:45] Planner Thomaidis: Great.

[3:07:46] Voice 20: Thank you.

[3:07:46] Voice 20: Thank

[3:07:47] Planner Thomaidis: you, Chair Mott.

[3:07:50] Planner Thomaidis: So, yeah, the purpose of this staff report is to present to the

[3:07:53] Planner Thomaidis: the Denman Island Local Trust Committee status updates regarding the Comas Ranch Limited

[3:07:58] Planner Thomaidis: application, including introducing both draft bylaws number 252 of the official community plan

[3:08:06] Planner Thomaidis: and number 253 land use bylaw for information. The draft bylaw number 252 would amend the Denman

[3:08:14] Planner Thomaidis: Island official community plan bylaw number 185 by redesignating portions of the subject

[3:08:19] Planner Thomaidis: properties from rural to a new land use designation called Rural Comprehensive, or RC.

[3:08:26] Planner Thomaidis: Draft Bylaw No. 253 would amend the Denman Island Land Use Bylaw 2008 by rezoning portions of the

[3:08:34] Planner Thomaidis: subject properties from rural residential, or R2, to a new rural zone, also called Rural

[3:08:40] Planner Thomaidis: Comprehensive 1, or RC1. The proposed amendments would generally allow a maximum of 20 principal

[3:08:48] Planner Thomaidis: dwelling units as well as 20 accessory guest dwelling units no greater than 37.2 square

[3:08:54] Planner Thomaidis: meters or 400 square feet in floor area under specific conditions and also replacing what the

[3:09:01] Planner Thomaidis: historic land use contract permitted. The purpose of this report is also to request some additional

[3:09:08] Planner Thomaidis: technical information from the applicant to inform draft bylaws prior to first reading.

[3:09:14] Planner Thomaidis: Staff are not recommending that the LTC give first reading to these draft bylaws.

[3:09:20] Planner Thomaidis: They're just being introduced for information at this meeting.

[3:09:24] Planner Thomaidis: Recommendation number one on page one of the staff report recommends the LTC request information from the applicant confirming the total number of guest and accessory dwellings and also confirming how the applicant would like to address the existing larger accessory dwellings through this rezoning application

[3:09:42] Planner Thomaidis: application before completion of draft bylaws it also recommends that recommendation number

[3:09:49] Planner Thomaidis: one also recommends that the applicant provide an updated building site plan

[3:09:52] Planner Thomaidis: which will be included as a schedule in the draft land use bylaw staff have made annotations in the

[3:09:59] Planner Thomaidis: draft land use bylaw number 253 where modernized use density siting setback and other development

[3:10:06] Planner Thomaidis: regulations and conditions are being proposed. Upon LTC direction, staff will continue to work

[3:10:14] Planner Thomaidis: with the applicant to obtain information in order to complete draft bylaws number 252 and 253

[3:10:21] Planner Thomaidis: and return to the LTC for consideration of first reading. Staff would also like to bring to the

[3:10:27] Planner Thomaidis: LTC's attention the status of the heritage conservation area request. So early in the

[3:10:33] Planner Thomaidis: the rezoning review, staff identified archaeological site and cultural heritage protection as a high

[3:10:38] Planner Thomaidis: priority due to the historic instances of land alteration in archaeological sites without permits

[3:10:44] Planner Thomaidis: on some of these properties. The LTC directed staff to draft something called a heritage

[3:10:50] Planner Thomaidis: conservation area. But upon drafting and review, the draft was found not to be very capable of

[3:10:59] Planner Thomaidis: adequately addressing archaeological site protection concerns expressed by

[3:11:03] Planner Thomaidis: Comox First Nation. The heritage conservation area was initially considered quite an effective

[3:11:10] Planner Thomaidis: tool to regulate development in areas of high archaeological potential, yet the purpose of

[3:11:16] Planner Thomaidis: a heritage conservation area would only really be to conserve intangible cultural heritage and

[3:11:21] Planner Thomaidis: not actual archaeological sites and therefore cannot address archaeological site protection

[3:11:26] Planner Thomaidis: beyond what the Heritage Conservation Act,

[3:11:29] Planner Thomaidis: the Provincial Heritage Conservation Act already addresses.

[3:11:33] Planner Thomaidis: Section 219 Restrictive Covenant has been identified as an alternative tool

[3:11:39] Planner Thomaidis: for protection instead of a heritage conservation area.

[3:11:44] Planner Thomaidis: So through the registration of a legal covenant on title,

[3:11:47] Planner Thomaidis: this would create additional requirements regarding heritage protection

[3:11:51] Planner Thomaidis: and conservation prior to any development or land alteration.

[3:11:55] Planner Thomaidis: So the LTC may request that this type of covenant be registered on title prior to adoption once draft bylaws are given first reading in the future.

[3:12:08] Planner Thomaidis: Yeah, I'm here to answer, staff are here to answer any other specific questions regarding the many other status updates on previous LTC direction given in the staff report.

[3:12:17] Planner Thomaidis: And then I'd also like to clarify that recommendation 1B of the staff report incorrectly recommends the LTC request confirmation explaining how the proposed rezoning application will address any non-conforming dwellings.

[3:12:32] Planner Thomaidis: And so I think it's a little typo. It's supposed to say non-compliant dwellings because a lot of most of the dwellings are non-conforming and that's the exercise of the rezoning application.

[3:12:42] Planner Thomaidis: So just to clarify that small change to recommended wording.

[3:12:48] Planner Thomaidis: The applicant, Mr. John Andrew, informed staff that he would be present to address the local trust committee today as well.

[3:12:55] Planner Thomaidis: And we'd like to give him the opportunity to address the LTC.

[3:12:59] Voice 20: Thank you.

[3:13:03] Member of the public: So I am John Andrew and I represent the board for Comus Ranch LTV.

[3:13:10] Member of the public: and the

[3:13:12] Member of the public: and Homeless Ranch

[3:13:13] Member of the public: just manages Homeless Ranch

[3:13:16] Member of the public: it's owned by 20 people jointly

[3:13:18] Member of the public: it's actually

[3:13:19] Member of the public: one of the largest cooperatives

[3:13:21] Member of the public: on Denman Island

[3:13:23] Member of the public: and one of the beauties about this

[3:13:26] Member of the public: rezoning application

[3:13:27] Member of the public: we're not doing anything

[3:13:29] Member of the public: we're not turning one rock over

[3:13:31] Member of the public: we are not building anything

[3:13:34] Member of the public: everything is in place

[3:13:36] Member of the public: and it's been there

[3:13:37] Member of the public: starting in 1978

[3:13:39] Member of the public: 1978. It goes back further than that. Comus Ranch was owned by a family called the Runkle family

[3:13:44] Member of the public: from 1928. It was operated as a natural ranch until the 70s and the cost of running a ranch

[3:13:53] Member of the public: became prohibitive and the owners decided how could they justify keeping Comus Ranch going.

[3:14:00] Member of the public: So they formed a cooperative called under an auspices of a land use contract. So everything

[3:14:09] Member of the public: Everything was great. That's how homeless ran. We were allowed 20 houses. We had to

[3:14:16] Member of the public: get water approval originally. It was 300 gallons a day. All of that was done. Islands

[3:14:21] Member of the public: Trust was issued all the setting and use permits for all the buildings that were built, including,

[3:14:28] Member of the public: I think, many of the guest cottages. But I don't know, some of them exceeded the 400

[3:14:34] Member of the public: hundred square feet was allowed so i think that from our point of view the easiest solution would

[3:14:41] Member of the public: be they're non-smart they're not non-conforming they're not compliant and change the allowed

[3:14:50] Member of the public: site from 400 to whatever the largest one is we can measure that we've part of the what we've

[3:14:57] Member of the public: been asked to do is to actually provide how big all of them are and itemize them so that

[3:15:02] Member of the public: That would be one really solid, but anyways.

[3:15:06] Member of the public: So I actually want to thank,

[3:15:10] Member of the public: we've got many, many residents.

[3:15:12] Member of the public: We'd like to thank the LTC and Islands Trust staff,

[3:15:18] Member of the public: and we can appreciate the huge amount of time

[3:15:22] Member of the public: and effort that's been put in by the planning staff

[3:15:24] Member of the public: to get to this point in the rezoning.

[3:15:28] Member of the public: And just so the rest of you know,

[3:15:30] Member of the public: we are four years into this process.

[3:15:33] Member of the public: And it is surprising to hear other applications which are further along than us and are recently new.

[3:15:41] Member of the public: But anyhow, we are working through many of the delays in our call, too, because we've been unwilling to do some of the things that were proposed.

[3:15:50] Member of the public: But I'm just going to address some of the issues that we have had concern about.

[3:16:00] Member of the public: about most of the things in the staff report,

[3:16:02] Member of the public: which is many, many recommendations.

[3:16:04] Member of the public: We're in agreement with it,

[3:16:06] Member of the public: and they've either already been accomplished

[3:16:08] Member of the public: or we don't have any problem with it.

[3:16:11] Member of the public: Some of them we do.

[3:16:12] Member of the public: So the first one I'm gonna address is water.

[3:16:15] Member of the public: It's interesting that water has been raised by you,

[3:16:18] Member of the public: it was raised by Laura,

[3:16:20] Member of the public: with respect to Coho Landing and your property.

[3:16:24] Member of the public: property. We've been operating for over 50 years as people living there. All the owners

[3:16:33] Member of the public: have adequate wells and nobody runs out of water. All the owners have proper filters

[3:16:39] Member of the public: and treatment for their water, including UV, carbon filters, and other people have rewrought

[3:16:47] Member of the public: and reversed osmosis because they don't like the actual taste of the water. For additional

[3:16:54] Member of the public: protection for water shortages. Many of the owners have additional cisterns. Some of them

[3:17:03] Member of the public: have over 45,000 liters. I can think of two or three. And that's a 2,000-gallon cistern

[3:17:13] Member of the public: that holds 8,000 liters. And some of the properties have five cisterns. Over and above that, we

[3:17:21] Member of the public: We also have 56,000 liters available for the fire department hooked up with the fire attachment

[3:17:28] Member of the public: so they can suck the water out if need be.

[3:17:33] Member of the public: Hopefully they will never, ever be used.

[3:17:36] Member of the public: Other owners have dedicated cisterns with a fire pump and hose just in case the radio,

[3:17:44] Member of the public: all you're going to do is try to save your house until the water pump gets there, whatever.

[3:17:49] Member of the public: Anyhow, so that covers sort of the water issue.

[3:17:53] Member of the public: And I don't think we need a water management plan.

[3:17:55] Member of the public: We have one.

[3:17:56] Member of the public: We've been doing it for 50 years.

[3:17:58] Member of the public: You pointed out, David, islanders do that.

[3:18:02] Member of the public: They figure stuff out how to do it.

[3:18:04] Member of the public: And the other point that what people don't understand yet is there is no shortage of water in the Mennonite.

[3:18:13] Member of the public: There is a shortage of storage.

[3:18:15] Member of the public: And if you can provide enough storage or a reservoir like cities do, there's adequate

[3:18:20] Member of the public: water.

[3:18:22] Member of the public: If you're depending on a well that's not very reliable, generally in the winter your well

[3:18:29] Member of the public: is going to be pumping water.

[3:18:30] Member of the public: And if you store it, you'll get through.

[3:18:32] Member of the public: Unfortunately, there are people on

[3:18:34] Voice 21: the island that

[3:18:34] Member of the public: come to buy water and it used to be cheaper.

[3:18:36] Member of the public: It used to be 500 bucks for 2,000 gallons.

[3:18:39] Member of the public: I think now it's more like 600 or 700.

[3:18:44] Member of the public: The point two is DE20240245, which is a preliminary field reconnaissance that we've been asked

[3:18:54] Member of the public: to do with respect to the heritage.

[3:18:59] Member of the public: We are in total agreement of doing a PFR, as they call it.

[3:19:06] Member of the public: We have an archaeologist lined up to coordinate.

[3:19:11] Member of the public: They've given us a quote.

[3:19:13] Member of the public: we wanted to proceed last november the problem is i want a letter we want a letter from the local

[3:19:22] Member of the public: trust committee saying that if we do the preliminary field report that would be the

[3:19:28] Member of the public: requirement archaeologically for the rezoning and we have i'm i don't know if you've seen them but

[3:19:36] Member of the public: it's a report from BC Archaeology and it says, clearly, Homeless Ranch does not need to do

[3:19:43] Member of the public: an AIA, which is the next level, an Archaeological Impact Assessment. It starts to get horrendously

[3:19:49] Member of the public: expensive. There was recently a house in Ontario and the people found a couple of bones and

[3:19:55] Member of the public: they notified the authorities $300,000 later for one piece of property. So we just want

[3:20:04] Member of the public: to guarantee that we do the peak and they um the pfr will be somewhere between 25 and 30 000 um

[3:20:15] Member of the public: but we don't want to spend three hundred thousand dollars or half a million dollars down the road

[3:20:20] Member of the public: if we do development in the future i mean it's house burns down they think of setting a news

[3:20:25] Member of the public: permit and there needs to be archaeological stuff and that's a different story but that's in the

[3:20:31] Member of the public: you cannot have

[3:20:31] Member of the public: so in terms of the rezoning we just we're willing to do it so we we need that

[3:20:37] Member of the public: guarantee um and that's been impediment as i say that goes back to november when we're lined up to

[3:20:46] Member of the public: do it but we couldn't get insurance from from i will structure the ltc that we uh um would be the

[3:20:55] Member of the public: end of it. Now I'm going to just jump here to DE.25004 and this has got to do with the

[3:21:06] Member of the public: environmental covenant and I think that you're running into an environmental covenant issue

[3:21:12] Member of the public: and how to deal with it best and we've been again operating for 50 years. In our original

[3:21:22] Member of the public: a land use contract there was a small clause um that uh basically said what said the untreated

[3:21:32] Member of the public: area of long beach point as shown in red on the attached schedule shall remain under occupied and

[3:21:38] Member of the public: the owners and the company undertake to hold and maintain that said untreated area of long beach

[3:21:42] Member of the public: point solely for the use benefit enjoyment of the public um subject to the following conditions no

[3:21:50] Member of the public: no fires, no camping, no artificial man-made structures,

[3:21:56] Member of the public: and that we agree that we would keep it in a tree,

[3:21:59] Member of the public: in a state of, what do we put,

[3:22:04] Member of the public: state of trees, section of Long Beach Point,

[3:22:06] Member of the public: proposed, shown in green,

[3:22:10] Member of the public: and that we would keep it protected,

[3:22:13] Member of the public: as we have for the last 50 years.

[3:22:15] Member of the public: We also wish you are not aware of another piece of land

[3:22:18] Member of the public: called the Fraser property,

[3:22:20] Member of the public: And it represents about 30-odd acres.

[3:22:25] Member of the public: Homeless Ranch bought that to protect Danes Creek, the headwaters of Danes Creek.

[3:22:31] Member of the public: And the headwaters of Danes Creek originate in where the new winery proposal is.

[3:22:37] Member of the public: And we were worried four years ago that there could be disruption to that drainage.

[3:22:44] Member of the public: So we bought all the land, and there's trails on it.

[3:22:47] Member of the public: Nobody uses it.

[3:22:48] Member of the public: It's never been built.

[3:22:49] Member of the public: but you can walk on it and that's simply to protect Gaines Creek. All of the rest

[3:22:54] Member of the public: of the lands of Pomas is 250 acres in total. There are other areas that go

[3:23:02] Member of the public: what used to be the old ranchers, grassland and we're not ever going to

[3:23:08] Member of the public: disturb it but you know as times change and people change and maybe we need some

[3:23:17] Member of the public: some protection, but what I'm proposing is that we draft the covenant and you approve

[3:23:27] Member of the public: the covenant or change it until we come to an agreement on what the covenant is.

[3:23:32] Member of the public: And the problem with bureaucracies are they create incredibly complicated documents. And

[3:23:40] Member of the public: Margo sent me an example of an environmental covenant, and I don't know where it was, but

[3:23:46] Member of the public: somewhere in the gulf islands it stated you could not cut even a branch on any shrubbery

[3:23:53] Member of the public: so you couldn't maintain your trails you basically couldn't take any dead trees that fell over

[3:24:00] Member of the public: you couldn't remove them it would make your property virtually unusable and we have trails

[3:24:07] Member of the public: and people bike through and um with permission other um islanders walk through all of that would

[3:24:14] Member of the public: be gone. So this is a sample of what I just wrote a minute ago. Homeless Ranch agrees that there

[3:24:22] Member of the public: will be no development, disturbance of the land, no logging and no road building in the lands north

[3:24:29] Member of the public: of block one, which is where Lauren lives. No, sorry, it's Price, Price's lot. All the way to

[3:24:39] Member of the public: the end including Long Beach Point and there's a spit out there all of that we don't want to touch

[3:24:46] Member of the public: it and we're certainly willing to have a covenant on title if it would make the local trust committee

[3:24:55] Member of the public: feel better and the same goes with the heritage covenant too which I didn't intend to discuss

[3:25:03] Member of the public: discuss. If we can figure out a way to draft a heritage covenant. Just for your information,

[3:25:13] Member of the public: all of Comus Ranch has had major archaeological studies done in the years, starting in 1956

[3:25:19] Member of the public: by an archaeologist named Borden. There's a mass of information that BC Archaeology

[3:25:27] Member of the public: has but they will not give it to anybody they'll give you uh we've got a report from um which

[3:25:36] Member of the public: the LTC is interested I can supply for you part of it's redacted because they don't want people

[3:25:44] Member of the public: knowing where heritage sites are they're worried about filtering and disturbance but all of Comus

[3:25:52] Member of the public: ranches to the exception of three properties at the site is what's called red zone. It's all

[3:25:59] Member of the public: protected. It has been for decades. So any heritage covenant or agreement that we can come to is

[3:26:09] Member of the public: simply layered on top of that already. And the people that administer archaeology in British

[3:26:15] Member of the public: Columbia is BC Archaeology. And they do it under the Heritage Act of British Columbia. There's the

[3:26:23] Member of the public: And if you need more layering, we're willing to do it.

[3:26:30] Member of the public: Unfortunately, over the decades, there's been major disturbance.

[3:26:35] Member of the public: Long before Comus Ranch existed as the way it does today,

[3:26:41] Member of the public: BC Archaeology informed us that 6,000 tons of midden was removed and sold to chicken farms

[3:26:49] Member of the public: arms, because of the calcium in the old clam shells of the midden. And I guess chickens

[3:26:56] Member of the public: eat it and make eggs. So major, major disruption in the 1960s. Some of that, people, when we

[3:27:10] Member of the public: built our houses, we applied to siting and use permits, and there were no archaeological

[3:27:17] Member of the public: requirements and notes for history um now there are so anything going forward or anything that's

[3:27:24] Member of the public: going to be built in the future the last setting the news permit i got was about five years ago

[3:27:29] Member of the public: and i sent him where i was going to do to um fomox first nations and he looked at it and said no you

[3:27:35] Member of the public: don't have to get a um a chip permit and submitted a tie lens trust and we got approval for just a

[3:27:44] Member of the public: a little together. But that will be continuing in the future. Anybody that goes in is going to have

[3:27:51] Member of the public: to go through those steps. Anyways, that's all I've got to say. I thank you so much for your time

[3:27:58] Member of the public: and if you have any questions.

[3:28:03] Trustee Graham (probable): That's wonderful news, John, about the preliminary yield.

[3:28:07] Trustee Graham (probable): That was a request from Comox First Nations in the early days and it seemed like a really

[3:28:13] Trustee Graham (probable): It's a really wonderful thing to offer them an opportunity to do that.

[3:28:17] Trustee Graham (probable): I didn't hear the problem that you weren't being given a letter to confirm that once we've got that preliminary field of reconnaissance done that we wouldn't be asking you to do anymore.

[3:28:35] Trustee Graham (probable): That didn't come to the local trustee. I sent it to Marlowe.

[3:28:39] Trustee Graham (probable): yeah yeah um and i just assumed i'm very soft on stuff like that you don't see it so that was

[3:28:46] Trustee Graham (probable): always i'm being honest i was disappointed when i heard no they're going to be no and david you

[3:28:52] Trustee Graham (probable): and i had a meeting we

[3:28:52] Member of the public: did i don't know that that conversation you recommended approaching

[3:28:56] Member of the public: kfm so you think i'll do it i did yeah and um they swapped are they or they just said no we

[3:29:02] Member of the public: have no interest and

[3:29:06] Trustee Graham (probable): i said probably because they have bigger fish to fry perhaps that's all i can

[3:29:10] Trustee Graham (probable): think of there was no reason to do that yeah interesting very interesting and interesting

[3:29:15] Member of the public: just as a side i shouldn't take up too much time but no this is good there was um talk about a

[3:29:20] Member of the public: dedicated right away or path or trailer to long beach point yeah so in the course of the meeting

[3:29:26] Member of the public: with uh they actually just want to get to tree island they don't care about long beach point

[3:29:33] Member of the public: you know i pointed out it was adequate stairs at morning beach park along the beach the same

[3:29:39] Member of the public: distances if you were to access it from our property but would be major disturbance to

[3:29:45] Member of the public: topography and I think hopefully someone from Iowa's trust staff will get to Comus and see what

[3:29:52] Member of the public: the topography is like. You know what Comus Bluffs are like? They're extremely environment.

[3:29:57] Member of the public: We form the bridge of Comus.

[3:30:00] Member of the public: plus coming together to a narrow spot and then it drops down about 80 or 90 feet, there's

[3:30:06] Member of the public: ropes to get people down, there's nowhere to put a trail. And the other trail, if it

[3:30:12] Member of the public: was to go along the western side, would be going right through three people's backyards.

[3:30:17] Member of the public: So the way to get there is the way everyone gets there, it's from .

[3:30:21] Trustee Graham (probable): sign

[3:30:21] Member of the public: yeah um but for tree island really the access is by vote and i didn't say that right um anyhow

[3:30:33] Member of the public: that's where it stands and we are willing to do the pfr we'll just need that letter from you yeah

[3:30:40] Member of the public: okay okay thank you very much any questions from the floor

[3:30:47] Trustee Graham (probable): The question on what to do with the secondary drawings, which are larger than four, so your

[3:30:53] suggestion

[3:30:54] Trustee Graham (probable): is just to leave it as non-compliance and ...

[3:30:56] Trustee Graham (probable): Well, I don't know.

[3:30:56] Trustee Graham (probable): What do you recommend?

[3:30:57] Trustee Graham (probable): What are our options?

[3:31:02] Trustee Graham (probable): I mean, like a variance permit that would cover those, or do you just increase the size,

[3:31:09] Trustee Graham (probable): or what that ...

[3:31:10] Trustee Graham (probable): Why don't we do an inventory and see how many of them are there?

[3:31:13] Trustee Graham (probable): i think i think the inventory's been done i think it's five is that correct

[3:31:16] Trustee Graham (probable): okay yeah so then that's a better suggestion as we wait until we have the detailed cycle plan

[3:31:24] Trustee Graham (probable): all the measurements then we'll know exactly what we're dealing that makes sense yeah

[3:31:31] Trustee Graham (probable): through

[3:31:32] Planner Thomaidis: the chair there is a detailed site survey um and and staff you know have have looked through

[3:31:39] Planner Thomaidis: that and notice that there are some there appear to be some accessory dwellings larger than the

[3:31:45] Planner Thomaidis: permitted guest accessory uh guest dwelling um unit that was that are permitted through the land

[3:31:52] Planner Thomaidis: that were historically permitted through the land use contract um so we did ask for confirmation of

[3:31:58] Planner Thomaidis: just how many there are and a bit more clarity about that some some of the site survey wasn't

[3:32:03] Planner Thomaidis: entirely clear um but there is a detailed site survey um so yeah getting getting confirmation

[3:32:08] Planner Thomaidis: on that would be helpful to begin with and then it would be up to the LTC to decide whether they'd

[3:32:14] Planner Thomaidis: like this rezoning application to you know formally legalize just the however many there are

[3:32:21] Planner Thomaidis: right now or or you know only allow guest dwelling units up to a certain you know up to that limited

[3:32:30] Planner Thomaidis: 400 square foot floor area and then as those secondary accessory dwellings that are sort of

[3:32:38] Planner Thomaidis: larger than that um age they would you know not be able to be replaced in the same size

[3:32:45] Planner Thomaidis: and so they wouldn't be permitted in perpetuity and i i'm not sure that they could be we have to

[3:32:52] Planner Thomaidis: look into whether it would be um possible to apply for a variance to the floor area in the future to

[3:32:59] Planner Thomaidis: build a larger guest dwelling unit than the 400 permitted 400 square feet that's permitted

[3:33:09] Trustee Graham (probable): We could wait for that staff report giving us options once we have definitive knowledge as to how many dwellings there are and what their sizes are.

[3:33:18] Member of the public: So just two comments.

[3:33:20] Trustee Graham (probable): Yeah.

[3:33:20] Trustee Graham (probable): One

[3:33:20] Member of the public: is that the land use contract is done.

[3:33:23] Member of the public: Yes.

[3:33:23] Member of the public: They were outlawed in 2022, four years ago.

[3:33:27] Member of the public: So whatever was in the land use contract, we had approached it as a light for light.

[3:33:34] Member of the public: and um but there is no reason why that 400 square foot size i mean i think some of them are one of

[3:33:45] Member of the public: them is three square meters over or three square feet something quite significant but we're doing

[3:33:52] Member of the public: inventory we'll see where we stand um then we can look at it yeah and then um and as margo pointed

[3:34:00] Member of the public: it out we do have a survey you spent a lot and it outlines every road every house every telephone

[3:34:09] Member of the public: pole everything on the property so i think we just need to add to that with more specifics

[3:34:17] Member of the public: but in the um in the staff report there are some mistakes in terms of the houses

[3:34:26] Member of the public: one of them was attached by a covered walkway made out of canvas and it was destroyed in the wind and

[3:34:34] Member of the public: that hasn't been replaced yet and it's going to be I guess replaced by

[3:34:38] Member of the public: but the definition of a covered walkway in the land use violence is very very

[3:34:43] Member of the public: yeah

[3:34:47] Member of the public: um just the distance that's yeah 13 feet yeah um that's all I have to say thanks

[3:34:56] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah, I mean, similarly, I think it makes sense to like get some sort of inventory but

[3:35:01] Trustee Borthwick: I think that and then we make a determination on what we think ought to be the legal status

[3:35:06] Trustee Borthwick: of those accessory buildings in the future. That's fine. That's, we can figure that out.

[3:35:10] Trustee Borthwick: That's not, I don't, that doesn't feel like a major stumbling block to me at all.

[3:35:14] Trustee Borthwick: It's almost

[3:35:15] Voice 20: like the stumbling block though is the ladder for archaeological certification.

[3:35:20] Voice 20: it just yeah no and

[3:35:21] Trustee Borthwick: like trustee graham that's also not a thing that i was aware of and i had

[3:35:25] Trustee Borthwick: heard anecdotally from from other people it's like oh yeah they're willing to go forward with

[3:35:29] Trustee Borthwick: the pfr and i was like great cool i'm looking forward to that going forward and we can move

[3:35:34] Trustee Borthwick: this on for you because i know i know how much

[3:35:36] Trustee Borthwick: work you guys have put into it and i know how

[3:35:37] Trustee Borthwick: much work uh climate the minuses put into this too so i you know i yeah so that last i'd heard

[3:35:43] Trustee Borthwick: it was like oh yeah they're gonna go forward with it and then we haven't seen anything so

[3:35:46] Trustee Borthwick: So, yeah, disappointing not to have known about that.

[3:35:49] Trustee Borthwick: And I think that's a way that we can move forward.

[3:35:52] Trustee Borthwick: I mean, there's a part of me that has the slight sort of hesitation of like, well, if

[3:35:57] Trustee Borthwick: something like super significant came up in the PFR, that might need to be addressed.

[3:36:01] Trustee Borthwick: And I don't know, like, we want to move this forward.

[3:36:05] Trustee Borthwick: We want to complete this process, no question.

[3:36:07] Trustee Borthwick: And I think I'm happy to sort of make that assurance that, you know, once PFR is being

[3:36:14] Trustee Borthwick: required being completed which is which is the the the main record main request that we've had

[3:36:21] Trustee Borthwick: from the co-ops um you know i'm i want to put this to bed for your sake as much as everyone else

[3:36:26] Trustee Borthwick: absolutely we all are so

[3:36:32] Voice 20: i'm not staff you know is you've obviously heard the request

[3:36:37] Voice 20: um is that something do you see any red flags that's a bad idea to do this because it sounds

[3:36:44] Voice 20: Sounds like a common sense idea, but sometimes we

[3:36:47] Voice 20: have to reflect on them.

[3:36:48] Voice 20: Yeah,

[3:36:49] Planner Thomaidis: it's not a practice that I know of that we've ever done before.

[3:36:54] Planner Thomaidis: So I think some legal review would likely be necessary, just checking.

[3:37:00] Planner Thomaidis: But yeah, I guess staff can definitely look into it and get back at the next meeting and confirm

[3:37:08] Voice 20: with the applicant.

[3:37:08] Planner Thomaidis: applicant would

[3:37:10] Voice 20: the mechanism be to to have some draft wording and then pass it off to legal

[3:37:16] Voice 20: or review or would it be to have us sort of create the wording how do you see the the flow

[3:37:26] Voice 20: of this happening like where should the wording come from should come from the ltc should come

[3:37:31] Voice 20: from staff or should it come from the applicant the

[3:37:34] Planner Thomaidis: wording should come from the ltc if the ltc

[3:37:37] Planner Thomaidis: is agreeing to you know not request any further information after making this one request and

[3:37:43] Planner Thomaidis: you know making that basically assurance to the applicant so it would have to be yeah probably

[3:37:50] Planner Thomaidis: a letter drafted and then um drafted by staff and checked by legal and then signed by the chair

[3:37:58] Planner Thomaidis: um but i could i could double check what that what that process would look like exactly

[3:38:07] Voice 20: motion requesting staff to undertake those actions and you're just bringing back the next meeting

[3:38:12] Planner Thomaidis: yeah yeah i could we could look into it and and do that again i will say it's never something that

[3:38:17] Planner Thomaidis: i have seen done before by an ltc when they're making a request for information as part of a

[3:38:23] Planner Thomaidis: rezoning you know adding a condition that they will not request any further information um i guess

[3:38:30] Planner Thomaidis: you could make this the wording really specific um but i've never seen it done before so it would

[3:38:36] Planner Thomaidis: be something that we'd have to check.

[3:38:39] Trustee Graham (probable): The other question I have is what would a preliminary field

[3:38:45] Trustee Graham (probable): reconnaissance, what is the trigger for that process to start to roll into something deeper?

[3:38:51] Trustee Graham (probable): Because if there isn't an automatic trigger for the results of a preliminary field reconnaissance

[3:38:58] Trustee Graham (probable): to then look at something deeper. I can answer that for you. So

[3:39:02] Member of the public: preliminary field reconnaissance

[3:39:05] Member of the public: is an archaeologist walking the entire property

[3:39:10] Member of the public: and noting what is on the surface.

[3:39:14] Member of the public: It does not involve any digging, excavations, and so on.

[3:39:19] Member of the public: The next level, and this is why we don't have a problem

[3:39:26] Member of the public: with doing a PFR, the next level is called an AIA.

[3:39:30] Member of the public: But an AIA only applies when you are going to disturb, when you're

[3:39:39] Member of the public: going to dig a foundation,

[3:39:40] Member of the public: when you're going to do some land disturbance, then you have to have an archaeologist go

[3:39:46] Member of the public: through a much, much more elaborate, you don't dig the entire property.

[3:39:52] Member of the public: You just explore where the disturbance is going to take place.

[3:39:56] Member of the public: So in this case, we aren't doing any disturbance.

[3:40:02] Member of the public: Well,

[3:40:03] Trustee Graham (probable): this was called the Oxygen Request, and that's what they asked for, and as you

[3:40:09] Trustee Graham (probable): say, the AIA, the more extensive, is triggered by a development permit, as

[3:40:15] Trustee Graham (probable): you said, an amendment

[3:40:17] Trustee Graham (probable): you're saying, you're saying, I want to dig this.

[3:40:20] Trustee Graham (probable): That's when that gets triggered.

[3:40:21] Member of the public: Yeah.

[3:40:22] Member of the public: Yeah, and in terms of not wanting to do any more, we'll do the PFR pursuant to the rezoning.

[3:40:33] Member of the public: In other words, if in the future other things come up, there's a landslide and it explodes,

[3:40:39] Member of the public: there's all sorts of heritage stuff, then maybe for the time being to get the rezoning done.

[3:40:48] Member of the public: That's quite specific.

[3:40:49] Member of the public: Yeah, I

[3:40:50] Trustee Borthwick: mean, this is a conversation we had years ago, to that extent, so yeah.

[3:41:00] Trustee Borthwick: So somebody have some creative first steps?

[3:41:05] Trustee Borthwick: I started working on it and I was listening instead.

[3:41:13] Trustee Borthwick: Unfortunately, my writing and my listening brains are the same brain, so they only do

[3:41:18] Trustee Borthwick: You want to think at a time.

[3:41:20] Trustee Borthwick: I

[3:41:23] Voice 37: mean, we're...

[3:42:09] Voice 20: So, Margo, we're just

[3:42:11] Voice 20: drafting here.

[3:42:15] Voice 20: Recommendation B,

[3:42:19] Voice 20: can we defer that

[3:42:21] Voice 20: recommendation, or do you feel

[3:42:24] Voice 20: it should be part of the suite of motions?

[3:42:28] Planner Thomaidis: I feel like it

[3:42:29] Planner Thomaidis: should be part of the suite of motions, so

[3:42:31] Planner Thomaidis: that staff can go back and work with

[3:42:33] Planner Thomaidis: the applicant before bringing

[3:42:35] Planner Thomaidis: draft bylaws forward for first reading.

[3:42:37] Planner Thomaidis: you know, can, can confirm that information.

[3:42:42] Trustee Graham (probable): You said it's the local trust committee's responsibility to how we deal with

[3:42:46] Trustee Graham (probable): specific assets from the, right.

[3:42:49] Planner Thomaidis: Oh, sorry. I can't hear you.

[3:42:50] Trustee Graham (probable): I'm sorry. I, in a previous statement,

[3:42:53] Trustee Graham (probable): you said it's really the local trust committee's responsibility to decide how

[3:42:57] Trustee Graham (probable): we're going to deal with non-informing lines.

[3:42:59] Trustee Graham (probable): So what would you be getting from the applicant?

[3:43:03] Trustee Graham (probable): we

[3:43:04] Planner Thomaidis: would be getting information like confirmation of how many how many guest accessory dwellings

[3:43:11] Planner Thomaidis: exist that are above the permitted 400 square feet and using that to draft bylaws and then

[3:43:17] Planner Thomaidis: presenting that and presenting options to the local trust committee that's a

[3:43:24] Trustee Graham (probable): where's b says confirmation

[3:43:25] Trustee Graham (probable): explaining how the proposal is starting up to address any

[3:43:29] Trustee Graham (probable): any non-conforming plans. That's our responsibility. So that's why we thought we could just ignore

[3:43:33] Trustee Graham (probable): the LTC, and then we're going to come back, and the local trust committee is going to

[3:43:41] Trustee Graham (probable): make a decision as to how we're going to deal with those non-compliant programs. That's

[3:43:46] Trustee Graham (probable): all I'm saying.

[3:43:47] Planner Thomaidis: Sure, yeah. It was for clarity to confirm before the next meeting, but if it's something

[3:43:55] Planner Thomaidis: that the LTC feels isn't isn't necessary to proceed then then you can decide not to not to pass that

[3:44:03] Planner Thomaidis: one

[3:44:07] Voice 20: final i

[3:44:09] Trustee Borthwick: think it's t-strokes i'm typing it out so i can send it to lisa as well

[3:44:37] Voice 20: somehow i'm always hitting

[3:44:41] Voice 20: we should have all learned proper typing oh absolutely i learned all sorts of stuff in my

[3:44:48] Voice 20: past i used to be able to speak french oh i used

[3:44:52] Voice 20: to be able to calculate i used to be a wizard

[3:44:55] Voice 20: one of those guys can't do that can you type now one finger one finger works

[3:45:04] Voice 20: very very well

[3:45:04] Trustee Borthwick: Oh, very efficiently.

[3:45:06] Trustee Borthwick: If I'm, I feel like I should refer to either the best thing to refer to again?

[3:45:16] Voice 37: Yeah.

[3:45:31] Trustee Borthwick: Okay, so this is,

[3:45:33] Trustee Borthwick: I've got some language.

[3:45:35] Trustee Borthwick: I want us to sort of chew this over a little bit.

[3:45:38] Trustee Borthwick: So I'll look to staff to refer some assistance and an applicant will make sure that you're happy with what I'm saying and the data.

[3:45:48] Trustee Borthwick: So, should I read it out first or should I just move it?

[3:45:52] Trustee Borthwick: We can talk about it.

[3:45:54] Trustee Borthwick: Okay.

[3:45:54] Trustee Borthwick: Well, I'm going to read this out.

[3:45:55] Trustee Borthwick: This is not moving at this point.

[3:45:56] Trustee Borthwick: So, the Denman Local Trust Committee requests staff to draft a letter of understanding stating

[3:46:03] Trustee Borthwick: that the completion of a preliminary field reconnaissance report will satisfy the Local

[3:46:07] Trustee Borthwick: Trust Committee's heritage protection requirements for the purposes of the rezoning process of

[3:46:13] Trustee Borthwick: of DE-RZ-2023.1, brackets, co-mess ranch.

[3:46:19] Member of the public: That's fine with me, I'll kill it.

[3:46:21] Trustee Borthwick: Cause it ties it specifically to this rezoning process,

[3:46:24] Trustee Borthwick: which we're talking about.

[3:46:26] Trustee Borthwick: I think this is a broad thing.

[3:46:29] Trustee Borthwick: I just want to check with staff,

[3:46:31] Trustee Borthwick: make sure none of you are screaming.

[3:46:34] Trustee Borthwick: We're going to have it

[3:46:34] Trustee Graham (probable): reviewed by me.

[3:46:36] Trustee Borthwick: I'm assuming all of this is basically any draft of this

[3:46:38] Trustee Borthwick: will be done that way.

[3:46:40] Trustee Borthwick: now the only i guess the question i have is and this is a sort of a timing and staff capacity

[3:46:46] Trustee Borthwick: component so maybe i should be talking to margo um is there any value in the interests of trying

[3:46:52] Trustee Borthwick: to get this moving along um having had a discussion about this you know knowing that we were going to

[3:46:58] Trustee Borthwick: receive this report is there any um is there enough time that this might be drafted and

[3:47:06] Trustee Borthwick: approved before our next meeting and then we could send this to them before we get to our next meeting

[3:47:11] Trustee Borthwick: just so that they can initiate the process sooner is there any real value in that i know it's not

[3:47:15] Trustee Borthwick: all that far now until august but i just wanted to double check because then it could we approve

[3:47:20] Trustee Borthwick: this as a or could we approve that letter as a an rwm i guess it's my question uh

[3:47:26] Planner Thomaidis: through the

[3:47:27] Planner Thomaidis: target yes you you would be able to do an rwm um again it's dependent on you know whether the

[3:47:34] Planner Thomaidis: the letter is approved, you know, I have to send it.

[3:47:37] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah. Assuming, assuming that that work gets done,

[3:47:40] Trustee Borthwick: could this be brought forward as an RWM?

[3:47:42] Trustee Borthwick: And is there a real value in us pushing the accelerator on that?

[3:47:45] Trustee Borthwick: Or is it better to just, it's not that long to wait, but you know,

[3:47:48] Trustee Borthwick: I know you guys have been waiting for a while.

[3:47:51] Member of the public: I actually offered last year that we would put up the money in trust with

[3:47:59] Member of the public: having this trust for the pfr so that there was an assurance that it would get done um i never heard

[3:48:07] Member of the public: back on that proposal but um we are you know we're serious about getting this thing done and whatever

[3:48:13] Member of the public: it takes to expedite it would be great so

[3:48:16] Trustee Borthwick: that's that's that's the spirit in which i'm sort of trying

[3:48:18] Trustee Borthwick: to ask this question is that do you think that's any merit well we all have a joy i mean well we

[3:48:25] Trustee Borthwick: Well, we haven't talked about it yet, but it's not a...

[3:48:26] Trustee Borthwick: Well, we could schedule something into that.

[3:48:30] Trustee Borthwick: Okay.

[3:48:31] Trustee Borthwick: So, I don't know.

[3:48:32] Trustee Borthwick: Well, Marla, do you have any other perspective?

[3:48:36] Planner Thomaidis: No, I mean, yeah, if you'd like to rush it through RWM,

[3:48:40] Planner Thomaidis: you're certainly welcome to do that.

[3:48:41] Planner Thomaidis: I might, you know, ask Marla's island planner to weigh in

[3:48:44] Planner Thomaidis: if you have any perspectives on, you know,

[3:48:48] Planner Thomaidis: whether to do, you know, a motion for that

[3:48:52] Planner Thomaidis: or whether you've done anything like this before

[3:48:57] Planner Thomaidis: for a letter of understanding.

[3:49:01] Planner (probable): No, I haven't.

[3:49:02] Planner (probable): But I think you can just note in the motion,

[3:49:05] Planner (probable): you know, as soon as possible

[3:49:06] Planner (probable): or just to sort of signal some

[3:49:10] Planner (probable): expediency.

[3:49:11] Planner (probable): But I think Margo probably understands

[3:49:12] Planner (probable): and we'll get on it as soon as she did.

[3:49:15] Trustee Borthwick: That's great.

[3:49:15] Trustee Borthwick: I just know if we don't specify that it won't necessarily.

[3:49:18] Trustee Borthwick: And yeah.

[3:49:21] Trustee Borthwick: All right.

[3:49:21] Trustee Borthwick: Well, then I will move.

[3:49:23] Trustee Borthwick: that the Dem Niles Local Trust Committee request staff to draft a letter of understanding stating

[3:49:27] Trustee Borthwick: that the completion of a preliminary field reconnaissance report will satisfy the Local

[3:49:31] Trustee Borthwick: Trust Committee's heritage protection requirements for the purposes of the rezoning process of DE-RZ-2023.1

[3:49:38] Trustee Borthwick: Comas Ranch Limited and that this letter be, I don't believe it, I think the staff understand

[3:49:46] Trustee Borthwick: and i'm not going to talk to you further so second further discussion

[3:49:51] Voice 20: call the question

[3:49:52] okay um so we still yeah we've still got a question

[3:50:01] Trustee Borthwick: of the water management plan that i

[3:50:03] Trustee Borthwick: don't know that we've really like discussed per se we've obviously heard from from john about that

[3:50:08] Trustee Borthwick: but i

[3:50:09] Trustee Graham (probable): staff david's well again um going back to our previous discussion this is what islanders do

[3:50:17] Trustee Graham (probable): you can have a plan but it's not going to change that action so it's not going to help protect

[3:50:22] Trustee Graham (probable): anything and it's not going to guarantee that there's water so what is really what's the plan

[3:50:26] Trustee Graham (probable): for to make somebody happy that there's a plant that sits on the shelf and gathers cluster

[3:50:30] Trustee Graham (probable): find a bar you're going to get another system as simple as that another way

[3:50:37] Trustee Graham (probable): there's a lot of water there's a lot of water not worried about water

[3:50:41] Trustee Graham (probable): water. Probably not fresh water. It's just very knowledge.

[3:50:48] Trustee Borthwick: Okay, so why shouldn't and that's not necessarily in

[3:50:53] Trustee Borthwick: the center of it. So

[3:50:57] yeah, I mean, in terms of covenant

[3:51:00] Trustee Borthwick: conversation, my, my

[3:51:05] Trustee Borthwick: immediately in this thing, I know that you guys have, you

[3:51:08] Trustee Borthwick: guys have successfully combated a fire in that area. There was a

[3:51:13] Trustee Borthwick: fire that started and you guys were able to get on top of it um i know that you guys care very

[3:51:18] Trustee Borthwick: with very reasonably you're very concerned about fire safety on that and i think that

[3:51:23] Trustee Borthwick: the opportunity for you to practice sustainable and responsible forest husbandry is important

[3:51:28] Trustee Borthwick: um i certainly wouldn't want to see a covenant that would prevent you from from you know taking

[3:51:34] Trustee Borthwick: steps to make sure that that that area is safe um we're all very conscious of water and you guys

[3:51:39] Trustee Borthwick: and fire safety and you know it's a long road out there from the fire station so you know things can

[3:51:46] Trustee Borthwick: go badly quite quickly so i i wouldn't want to be overly prescriptive there i think i definitely

[3:51:50] Trustee Borthwick: am in favor of that being maintained in the way that you have um but i'm but we haven't

[3:51:56] specifically spoken to to the

[3:51:58] Trustee Borthwick: conversation as the ftc so

[3:52:00] Trustee Graham (probable): that covenant is to explain

[3:52:03] Trustee Graham (probable): well again

[3:52:04] Trustee Borthwick: this isn't necessarily one of our immediate motions here but it is part of the

[3:52:08] Trustee Borthwick: the resolutions and directions. This was bottom of page 160 004. So this was, we had requested

[3:52:29] Trustee Borthwick: them to draft a restrictive covenant. So I think possibly what John was reacting to was

[3:52:45] Trustee Borthwick: was the draft that margot had provided him which i think was was possibly overly restrictive

[3:52:52] Trustee Borthwick: um and they can't cut a branch that's that's a that's a problem um and the we know like obviously

[3:53:01] Trustee Borthwick: you have done this work for a long time there's not a huge turnover in in sort of people who are

[3:53:06] Trustee Borthwick: responsibly you know participating in that action um and the question is whether we want to we we've

[3:53:14] Trustee Borthwick: requested them to draft to develop a draft restrictive covenant the question is do we

[3:53:18] Trustee Borthwick: want to continue with that action i guess it's that direction is the we

[3:53:22] Trustee Graham (probable): just need something to

[3:53:23] Trustee Graham (probable): confirm that that area is protected yeah there's something that use contract that must have been

[3:53:29] Trustee Graham (probable): done fairly simply it

[3:53:31] Member of the public: was really really simple i actually read it to you you know and something

[3:53:35] Member of the public: but the land use contract never defined the area except the notes other than a map

[3:53:43] Trustee Graham (probable): Well,

[3:53:44] Member of the public: at the time, we didn't have the Fraser property either,

[3:53:47] Trustee Borthwick: when the language contract was drafted. So, I mean, I guess this is a question for staff, then, is there, I know we sort of had this conversation with the previous application, but, like, are there any other tools that we can use to sort of capture that intent from the historic WC?

[3:54:12] Trustee Borthwick: Other than a copy.

[3:54:14] Member of the public: or

[3:54:14] Trustee Borthwick: is that the best way to go

[3:54:15] Trustee Borthwick: and

[3:54:16] Member of the public: if so one point sam this fraser property is not in the rezoning

[3:54:21] Member of the public: more just sort of thinking of the

[3:54:26] Trustee Borthwick: whole process but yes

[3:54:27] Trustee Borthwick: because

[3:54:28] Trustee Graham (probable): i wonder why they're coming and i know we're in commerce as well

[3:54:33] Trustee Graham (probable): this does not have the conservation zoning accomplish the same thing

[3:54:38] Planner (probable): no it doesn't unfortunately because the conservation zone limits what you can build

[3:54:44] Planner (probable): on the property but it doesn't limit the amount like you could clear cut unfortunately you could

[3:54:51] clear cut a property that's self-conservation it's just a wild thing but it seems

[3:54:57] Trustee Graham (probable): counterintuitive

[3:54:58] Trustee Graham (probable): um so a simpler

[3:55:02] Trustee Graham (probable): covenant would

[3:55:04] Trustee Borthwick: be in order yeah and is that like if there's a covenant that's

[3:55:08] Trustee Borthwick: that's that's

[3:55:08] Member of the public: less why don't we work on it we'll send it to staff and to you and you can amend it

[3:55:16] Member of the public: we can massage it until we come up with something that's agreeable to everyone that

[3:55:21] Trustee Graham (probable): works for me

[3:55:22] Trustee Graham (probable): yeah

[3:55:22] Member of the public: yeah just

[3:55:24] Trustee Graham (probable): sorry through

[3:55:26] Planner Thomaidis: the chair yeah the covenant that was shared with um with mr andrew

[3:55:31] Planner Thomaidis: previously was standard wording from islands trust conservancy like all the covenants that

[3:55:37] Planner Thomaidis: that are used for conservation lands.

[3:55:39] Planner Thomaidis: It was a template that it wasn't catered

[3:55:42] Planner Thomaidis: to Comas Ranch specifically yet.

[3:55:45] Planner Thomaidis: It was just an early draft of,

[3:55:47] Planner Thomaidis: hey, here's a sample of a template that has been used

[3:55:51] Planner Thomaidis: on other properties for conservation

[3:55:52] Planner Thomaidis: and protection previously.

[3:55:55] Planner Thomaidis: So yeah, maybe it wasn't the right approach

[3:55:58] Planner Thomaidis: and there's an opportunity to come up with something

[3:56:02] Planner Thomaidis: that's more applicable to Comas Ranch.

[3:56:06] Planner Thomaidis: From a staff

[3:56:07] Voice 20: perspective, you already have a motion that you can work with.

[3:56:11] Voice 20: We don't need to take a motion.

[3:56:13] Planner Thomaidis: Yes, we already have a motion we can work with for that.

[3:56:16] Planner Thomaidis: And we can go back and work with the applicant.

[3:56:19] Planner Thomaidis: I will just mention, though, that the land use contract was drafted 50 years ago almost.

[3:56:28] Planner Thomaidis: And this is an opportunity for the LTC to look at modernizing protections,

[3:56:33] Planner Thomaidis: protections modernizing zoning and and density siting all of that while you know still allowing

[3:56:39] Planner Thomaidis: the owners to do what they've what they've been doing to have the density of housing that they've

[3:56:45] Planner Thomaidis: had to have the guest dwellings all of that but there there's an opportunity to improve it

[3:56:51] Planner Thomaidis: under islands trust's current preserve and protect mandate so just completely replacing

[3:56:58] Planner Thomaidis: replacing the land use contract isn't quite um isn't recommended there's you know there is this

[3:57:04] Planner Thomaidis: opportunity for modernization um it's also just not possible to to completely word for word

[3:57:11] Planner Thomaidis: law by law for bylaw regulation for like regulation replace what was a private you know

[3:57:19] Planner Thomaidis: semi-private contract um now with just public law tools local government law tools

[3:57:25] Trustee Borthwick: i mean the

[3:57:26] Trustee Borthwick: The original land use contract was, and this provision that that area be preserved was

[3:57:31] Trustee Borthwick: part of a negotiation, was you were going to be allowed to have this extra density in

[3:57:36] Trustee Borthwick: exchange for preservation of this area.

[3:57:38] Trustee Borthwick: So we're not negotiating.

[3:57:41] Trustee Borthwick: We're not asking for something.

[3:57:44] Trustee Borthwick: You're not offering anything.

[3:57:46] Trustee Borthwick: We're trying to do that.

[3:57:47] Trustee Borthwick: And yes, I mean, I think we should strive to make sure that we're being mindful to a

[3:57:54] Trustee Borthwick: modern degree.

[3:57:55] Trustee Borthwick: Yeah, let's formalize it.

[3:57:56] Trustee Borthwick: Absolutely.

[3:57:57] Trustee Borthwick: That's where I think that's, I think that's understood and what we're absolutely striving for.

[3:58:03] Trustee Graham (probable): All right.

[3:58:04] Trustee Graham (probable): Okay, we have some motions.

[3:58:07] Trustee Graham (probable): Discussion is accepted.

[3:58:09] Trustee Graham (probable): I will move that the Deminella Local Trust Committee has reviewed draft bylaw number 25 and cited as Deminella's

[3:58:15] Trustee Graham (probable): community plan

[3:58:16] Trustee Graham (probable): bylaw number 185, amendment number 12025 and draft bylaw number 253 cited as Deminella's land use bylaw 2008,

[3:58:25] Trustee Graham (probable): Amendment Number 1, 2025, and requests the applicant provide the following information

[3:58:31] Trustee Graham (probable): regarding DERZ 2023.1, Comox Ranch Limited. A, total number of existing accessory dwellings,

[3:58:40] Trustee Graham (probable): one greater than 37.2 square meters or 400 square feet in floor area, and two smaller than 37.2

[3:58:47] Trustee Graham (probable): square meters brackets 400 square feet in floor area and uh not b but then c being renamed b

[3:58:57] Trustee Graham (probable): a final building site plan to be included in draft bylaw number 253.

[3:59:01] Trustee Graham (probable): i

[3:59:03] Trustee Borthwick: will second it i do have a discussion this is the thing that happened to us before yeah we were

[3:59:09] Trustee Borthwick: talking about greater than 37.2 square meters and smaller than 37.2 square meters but if it is

[3:59:14] Trustee Borthwick: exactly 32.7 37.2 equal to or smaller or yeah equal to or smaller than because i think that the

[3:59:23] Trustee Borthwick: okay those ones are those ones comply with the previous gladys that would be my recommendation

[3:59:30] Trustee Borthwick: is that we amend i guess i make a motion with the program it's incredible okay well we're just

[3:59:35] Trustee Borthwick: not supposed to do this. I move that we amend the bylaw by by adding equal to or smaller than

[3:59:51] Trustee Borthwick: on provision two of section A.

[4:00:04] Trustee Borthwick: So now we're all

[4:00:05] Trustee Borthwick: just very little details there. And I'm like, yeah, no,

[4:00:09] Voice 20: no, no, because we are now at the motion as amended. So all the question all in favor?

[4:00:16] Voice 20: I carry this. Great. And I trust that Lisa's captured that. Sorry, Lisa.

[4:00:23] Voice 20: Thank you very much. So what is that?

[4:00:26] Trustee Graham (probable): The only other one is, pending further direction, this was the 2024-040, page 158, on the water.

[4:00:34] Trustee Graham (probable): And you know what? They've been looking after their water for 50 odd years. I don't need any more.

[4:00:43] Trustee Graham (probable): I don't need requests for water.

[4:00:47] Voice 20: Water management for fresh water?

[4:00:49] Voice 20: Okay.

[4:00:50] Voice 20: So if that's the case, I believe we'd have to rescind that motion.

[4:01:06] Planner Thomaidis: So just to just to add some clarification that DE 2024-040 requesting submission of

[4:01:15] Planner Thomaidis: information about existing water quality and quantity that that has been completed actually

[4:01:21] Planner Thomaidis: Actually, the owners provided that in 2024 to the best of their ability, you know, information on all of that so that that's sort of done.

[4:01:30] Planner Thomaidis: The pending further direction from LTC was added to this particular resolution because the land use contract required this proof of water.

[4:01:43] Planner Thomaidis: and also I think that it ties in a little bit to if the LTC decides in the future to

[4:01:52] Planner Thomaidis: or at the next meeting to legalize secondary dwellings that's like then some proof of water

[4:02:01] Planner Thomaidis: because that wasn't initially permitted under the land use contract like larger secondary

[4:02:07] Planner Thomaidis: dwellings than guest dwellings that's a more intensive residential use than what the land

[4:02:13] Planner Thomaidis: use contract permitted there might be um rationale to require you know further proof of water if

[4:02:21] Planner Thomaidis: you're going to legalize um larger secondary accessory dwellings so that that's why that was

[4:02:28] Planner Thomaidis: that was kind of added i

[4:02:32] Member of the public: can address that if you want so i believe all of the properties that have

[4:02:39] Member of the public: an accessory built into it and there's various descriptions in the um somewhere called suites

[4:02:48] Member of the public: guest cottages so on they're all guest cottages there's one property in particular that has

[4:02:58] Member of the public: has two structures, and they are attached by a covered walkway, which my understanding

[4:03:10] Member of the public: is that that makes it one unit if you are covered by, and they're very close to each

[4:03:16] Member of the public: other. That one is really the only one that is a little bit offside. The other ones, there

[4:03:25] Member of the public: are a number of other ones that are larger than 400 square feet um there are some that are under

[4:03:31] Member of the public: and until we have to go and measure and do an inventory i can't would be specifics but i know

[4:03:37] Member of the public: that there um is one that is problematic was a woman named gene allen she built it decades ago

[4:03:46] Member of the public: i think she was the first person to go to policy in the 70s and um and then she family grew and

[4:03:54] Member of the public: they added another structure and connected it and I think that that has been classified as two

[4:04:01] Member of the public: separate structures but what until I get all the information which will take a week or so

[4:04:10] Member of the public: I just feel like I'm in the dark right now yeah

[4:04:13] Trustee Graham (probable): yeah I'm not going to go further than that

[4:04:15] Trustee Graham (probable): so do you have something else yeah

[4:04:20] Planner Thomaidis: just through through the chair on the on the land

[4:04:22] Planner Thomaidis: And in the current Denman Island Land Use Bylaw, the regulations are even if two, if there are two structures to, you know, two separate parts of a building that are, that each have their own, you know, cooking facilities and meet the definition of a dwelling, then they're both, they're considered two dwellings, even if they're connected by a covered walkway.

[4:04:45] Planner Thomaidis: Yes, they're considered one building, but they would still be considered two dwellings.

[4:04:50] Planner Thomaidis: So that's just something for the LTC to consider.

[4:04:53] Planner Thomaidis: You know, I know you're also contemplating changing your land use bylaw. I don't know if that is part of it or not. You can look into it. But just so that you're aware, just because a suite is connected by a covered walkway doesn't make it no longer considered a secondary suite or an accessory dwelling. Yes, it's one building, but it is still two dwellings.

[4:05:18] Member of the public: yeah you're correct margo and then it does have two kitchens okay all right

[4:05:23] Voice 20: okay so yeah sir

[4:05:26] Voice 20: okay so we'll move on to page 204 which is p l thank you very much 20 26 0 0 5 2 and p l dvp

[4:05:36] 20 26 0 0 5

[4:05:38] Voice 20: 3 important um over to you marco great

[4:05:43] Planner Thomaidis: thank you chair maude on to the next um right so

[4:05:47] Planner Thomaidis: So this report is to introduce a combined development permit and development variance permit applications, two of them, for consideration by the Denman Island Local Trust Committee.

[4:05:56] Planner Thomaidis: The purpose of the development permit application is for both retroactive and proposed development within development permit area 2, sorry, on the western side of the property at 10-225 Greenhill Road.

[4:06:15] Planner Thomaidis: So the development permit would permit an existing addition to the single family dwelling, an existing accessory building, removal of a small portion of roof overhang and patio, which encroach, a cement patio, which encroach into the neighboring property, and also installation of a new septic system to support the accessory building.

[4:06:35] Planner Thomaidis: Staff recommend approval of the development permit, since the development is consistent with DPA2 guidelines.

[4:06:42] Planner Thomaidis: lines. Some of the guidelines are no longer applicable due to the retroactive nature of

[4:06:47] Planner Thomaidis: the application, but have been addressed in the impact assessment and restoration plan

[4:06:53] Planner Thomaidis: provided by the applicant and prepared by Current Environmental Limited, and it's in

[4:06:58] Planner Thomaidis: attachment six of the report. The purpose of the development variance permit application

[4:07:04] Planner Thomaidis: is to consider variances to the requirement for any structure to be sited a minimum of

[4:07:09] Planner Thomaidis: three meters from the rear or side lot line and for the maximum height of an accessory building

[4:07:15] Planner Thomaidis: to be six meters so the variance would allow an existing existing accessory building uh 6.47

[4:07:23] Planner Thomaidis: meters in height and 133.2 square meters in floor area to remain at 0.0 meters so right up against

[4:07:32] Planner Thomaidis: the side lot line. Staff recommend approval since there will be little or no potential

[4:07:39] Planner Thomaidis: impacts from granting the variances and the variances do not challenge the overall intent

[4:07:43] Planner Thomaidis: of the regulations. So the subject property is 5.18 hectares in size and located at 10-225

[4:07:53] Planner Thomaidis: Greenhill Road. The property contains a single family dwelling, an accessory building or studio,

[4:08:01] Planner Thomaidis: a septic system and groundwater well, and seven accessory buildings and structures including sheds, a chicken coop, a shop, a hut, and a cistern structure.

[4:08:11] Planner Thomaidis: And both applications are the result of a bylaw compliance and enforcement action for works undertaken in DPA2 without permits,

[4:08:21] Planner Thomaidis: specifically the construction of an addition to the single family dwelling unit in 2020,

[4:08:25] Planner Thomaidis: 2020, reconstruction of the accessory building on the footprint of a historic garage in 2021,

[4:08:32] Planner Thomaidis: as well as tree and vegetation clearing and land alteration north of the accessory building

[4:08:38] Planner Thomaidis: and partially on the neighboring property between 2020 and 2021.

[4:08:44] Planner Thomaidis: Original land clearing on other parts of the property and construction of the single family

[4:08:48] Planner Thomaidis: dwelling was completed in the mid 1990s prior to adoption of the DPA to steep slope regulations

[4:08:55] Planner Thomaidis: so it does not require a development permit but all buildings and structures on the property will

[4:08:59] Planner Thomaidis: require a retroactive siting and use permit if the development permit and variance permit are approved

[4:09:07] Planner Thomaidis: the accessory building is also located in the side lot line setback area and is above the maximum

[4:09:13] Planner Thomaidis: permitted height requiring variance the owners reconstructed the building on the exact foundations

[4:09:19] Planner Thomaidis: and much of the framing of an old garage and assumed that it was meeting bylaw requirements

[4:09:25] Planner Thomaidis: and cited within property boundaries at the time. They did not apply for a setting and use permit

[4:09:31] Planner Thomaidis: and did not hire a surveyor to confirm the property boundary before construction. And then

[4:09:36] Planner Thomaidis: after reconstruction and subsequent bylaw enforcement and compliance action, they hired

[4:09:40] Planner Thomaidis: a surveyor and confirmed that actual portions of the roof overhang, the cement patio, the drainage

[4:09:46] Planner Thomaidis: pipe and the heat pump on one side of the building partially encroach onto the neighboring property

[4:09:53] Planner Thomaidis: to the west. The owners have agreed to correct this mistake and bring the roofline, the patio,

[4:09:59] Planner Thomaidis: the cement, any encroaching structures fully within their property boundaries.

[4:10:04] Planner Thomaidis: The accessory building was also being used unlawfully as a detached secondary dwelling unit

[4:10:10] Planner Thomaidis: without an approved temporary use permit, which would have been required. The owners have since

[4:10:16] Planner Thomaidis: decommissioned the dwelling by removing all all cooking facilities and also intend only to use it

[4:10:21] Planner Thomaidis: as an accessory building and studio going forward in compliance with the land use bylaw so uh sorry

[4:10:31] Planner Thomaidis: i'll just scroll down my notes here um there was uh dvp notices were circulated to surrounding

[4:10:40] Planner Thomaidis: property owners and residents within 100 meters of the property and the notification period ended

[4:10:46] Planner Thomaidis: yesterday at 4 30 p.m and to date one one person has submitted correspondence and comments and

[4:10:53] Planner Thomaidis: concerns regarding the variance application and the development permit and i think you also heard

[4:10:59] Planner Thomaidis: from them today earlier in your meeting during the public participation period um so that's

[4:11:06] Planner Thomaidis: other information for the ltc to consider uh since the publishing of the staff report

[4:11:12] Planner Thomaidis: In summary, the recommendation on page 1 for the DP proposal is supported, since the objectives and guidelines of the DPA have been met, and implementing and monitoring conditions in the draft DP will ensure the protection of the sensitive ecosystem,

[4:11:31] Planner Thomaidis: and the recommendation on page 1 for the proposed DVP is supported since there are little or no potential impacts from granting the variance,

[4:11:39] Planner Thomaidis: and the variances do not challenge the intent of the setback and height regulations thank you

[4:11:46] Planner Thomaidis: there are some alternatives that the ltc can consider those are in the staff report i'd be

[4:11:51] Planner Thomaidis: happy to speak to those but if the ltc resolves to issue the development permit and the development

[4:11:56] Planner Thomaidis: variance permit permits will be issued and the applicant may commence with a citing and use

[4:12:00] Planner Thomaidis: permit process and also begin installation of a new septic system for the accessory building if

[4:12:07] Planner Thomaidis: they choose they've they've let staff know that they don't they don't intend that was more of an

[4:12:13] Planner Thomaidis: option they may or may not install a new septic system but they wanted to request it as part of

[4:12:18] Planner Thomaidis: the development permit application process and also the bylaw enforcement and compliance action

[4:12:24] Planner Thomaidis: will be resolved after citing and use permit issuance if that proceeds I believe the applicant

[4:12:31] Planner Thomaidis: is present, Mr. Brad Hornick. Also, if you have any questions directly for the property owner.

[4:12:39] Planner Thomaidis: Thank you.

[4:12:40] Voice 20: Good afternoon,

[4:12:49] Trustee Graham (probable): everybody. Thanks very much for the opportunity to speak. I've got a short

[4:12:54] Trustee Graham (probable): statement here, and I'd be happy to address any questions you may have, or any of the questions

[4:13:01] Trustee Graham (probable): is brought up but I don't see a neighbor today. Submission. I can't get my glasses. Good idea.

[4:13:27] Voice 21: So

[4:13:32] Trustee Graham (probable): my name is Brad Hornick and I'm one of the owners along with my partner at 102253

[4:13:40] Trustee Graham (probable): I want to begin by acknowledging the basic facts. Work was done on our property without

[4:13:47] Trustee Graham (probable): no property permits and without first confirming the property boundary by

[4:13:51] Trustee Graham (probable): survey. That was a mistake. We very much regret it and we understand why it has

[4:13:57] Trustee Graham (probable): caused uncertainty and out of use. We also understand that our neighbour has very

[4:14:04] Trustee Graham (probable): serious concerns about the boundary setback and encroachments, tree removal

[4:14:08] Trustee Graham (probable): and future use of the building. We do not dismiss those concerns. We recognize that

[4:14:14] Trustee Graham (probable): and a neighbor's sense of privacy,

[4:14:17] Trustee Graham (probable): why enjoyment and confidence in property boundaries matter.

[4:14:23] Trustee Graham (probable): At the same time, I respectfully ask the trustees

[4:14:25] Trustee Graham (probable): to focus on the question before them today,

[4:14:29] Trustee Graham (probable): whether the planner's recommendations

[4:14:31] Trustee Graham (probable): provide a fair, practical, proportionate way

[4:14:35] Trustee Graham (probable): to bring this property into compliance.

[4:14:39] Trustee Graham (probable): The staff report recommends approval

[4:14:41] Trustee Graham (probable): of both development permit and development variance permit.

[4:14:45] Trustee Graham (probable): Those recommendations follow months of review, survey work, environmental assessment, planning,

[4:14:52] Trustee Graham (probable): analysis, site documentation, and correspondence with Islands Trust staff.

[4:14:58] Trustee Graham (probable): The development permit is supported by the environmental assessment.

[4:15:02] Trustee Graham (probable): That report concludes that the impact to the steep slope and associated habitat

[4:15:07] Trustee Graham (probable): are, quote, negligible, end quote, and can be addressed through restoration,

[4:15:12] Trustee Graham (probable): recreation, invasive species management, and monitoring.

[4:15:16] Trustee Graham (probable): We accept those conditions and intend to comply with them as we can.

[4:15:21] Trustee Graham (probable): The variance is also, in our view, a practical solution to a specific existing condition.

[4:15:27] Trustee Graham (probable): The accessory building was reconstructed on the footprint of a long-standing garage.

[4:15:34] Trustee Graham (probable): That's something that is very easy to verify, since if you walk into the building, you can

[4:15:40] Trustee Graham (probable): see the old footing at various places that define the perimeter of the building it was not placed

[4:15:47] Planner Thomaidis: there

[4:15:48] Trustee Graham (probable): as a new incursion into an undisturbed area the variance does not prove any encroachment

[4:15:56] Trustee Graham (probable): onto neighborhood property it only addresses a setback to the property line the actual encroachments

[4:16:04] Trustee Graham (probable): will still have to be corrected we understand that clearly the roof issue is limited to a small

[4:16:12] Trustee Graham (probable): triangular portion of the northwest patio and roof overhang approximately three feet at its widest

[4:16:18] Trustee Graham (probable): point tapering back along the roof edge it does not involve the wall foundation or floor area

[4:16:27] Trustee Graham (probable): we are prepared to have the encroaching roof trimmed by a qualified carpenter modify the patio

[4:16:32] Trustee Graham (probable): or sidewalk as required and relocate the heat pump so that the building and related features are

[4:16:38] Trustee Graham (probable): brought within our property boundary. We also understand the concern about future access

[4:16:45] Trustee Graham (probable): and maintenance, but the wording from our neighbour that the building creates a permanent

[4:16:50] Trustee Graham (probable): rapid dependency is an overstatement. The variance does not give us any right to use

[4:16:57] Trustee Graham (probable): the neighbouring property. We will be responsible for managing the building from our own property

[4:17:02] Trustee Graham (probable): and within the limits of our rights. Maintenance and repairs can be conducted without transgressing

[4:17:09] Trustee Graham (probable): the neighboring property. The building itself is

[4:17:13] Trustee Graham (probable): on the exterior, both the walls and the roof are metal

[4:17:17] Trustee Graham (probable): which are likely to extend quite a bit

[4:17:22] Trustee Graham (probable): beyond a lifetime of either myself or neighbors. They're built that way.

[4:17:27] Trustee Graham (probable): I don't foresee any ongoing maintenance really

[4:17:30] Trustee Graham (probable): but the fact that the places

[4:17:35] Trustee Graham (probable): that we're trimming in that small place where it

[4:17:39] Trustee Graham (probable): it actually goes to the zero property line.

[4:17:41] Trustee Graham (probable): There's enough space around there from our property

[4:17:46] Trustee Graham (probable): to address anything that's around the corner.

[4:17:51] Trustee Graham (probable): This application is not a request for new density.

[4:17:53] Trustee Graham (probable): It is not a request for a detached dwelling.

[4:17:56] Trustee Graham (probable): The building is being used as an accessory building.

[4:17:59] Trustee Graham (probable): The application before you is a pathway

[4:18:02] Trustee Graham (probable): to regularization, development permit,

[4:18:05] Trustee Graham (probable): development variance permit, and corrective work

[4:18:08] Trustee Graham (probable): to bring the property into compliance. Without the variance the only realistic alternative

[4:18:14] Trustee Graham (probable): is removal of the building. We believe that would be disproportionate. Staff have concluded that

[4:18:22] Trustee Graham (probable): permits with conditions and corrective work are an appropriate planning outcome and we agree.

[4:18:31] Trustee Graham (probable): To my neighbor, I want to say again that we are very sorry for the original mistake

[4:18:36] Trustee Graham (probable): state, and for the difficulty that is followed from it.

[4:18:42] Trustee Graham (probable): We want to resolve the remaining battery and restoration issues constructively.

[4:18:47] Trustee Graham (probable): We began these discussions before the planning process started, and once we know where everybody

[4:18:53] Trustee Graham (probable): stands on the decision today, we anticipate and are open to discussions about restoration,

[4:19:01] Trustee Graham (probable): practical access concerns, and any support needed to address the area.

[4:19:06] Trustee Graham (probable): As you can imagine, it's really hard to carry out discussions about specific resolutions

[4:19:18] Trustee Graham (probable): with the neighbour until we know the building is actually going to be there, until we have

[4:19:23] Trustee Graham (probable): approval that the building is actually going to be there.

[4:19:27] Trustee Graham (probable): We respectfully submit that they do address affected areas, approval will allow the Islands

[4:19:36] Trustee Graham (probable): its trust to impose conditions, require restoration, require monitoring, require the relevant approaches

[4:19:45] Trustee Graham (probable): and bring the matter to compliance. For those reasons, we respectfully ask the trustees

[4:19:51] Trustee Graham (probable): to approve the development permit as recommended by staff. Again, I'm happy to address any

[4:20:00] Trustee Graham (probable): questions. Thank you, Professor. There were three questions that I heard from

[4:20:06] Trustee Graham (probable): your neighbor and I'm wondering if you'd be prepared to address those three questions yes

[4:20:14] Trustee Graham (probable): so

[4:20:14] Member of the public: those three questions were actually directed at staff

[4:20:18] Member of the public: um because I was not clear in the staff report if through mediations and monitoring for restoration

[4:20:25] Voice 21: of the land

[4:20:26] Voice 21: would also occur on my land

[4:20:28] Member of the public: due to the disruption there with the true movement

[4:20:30] Member of the public: land description or if that only applies to the applicant that's my first question

[4:20:37] Trustee Graham (probable): did you hear that question um

[4:20:41] Planner Thomaidis: yeah i think you were asking about the restoration and

[4:20:45] Planner Thomaidis: environmental mitigation measures and whether they would apply to the portion of the neighboring

[4:20:49] Planner Thomaidis: property where there was tree removal correct

[4:20:53] Voice 21: sorry

[4:20:57] Planner Thomaidis: i could i didn't hear

[4:21:00] Planner Thomaidis: that sorry where

[4:21:01] Planner Thomaidis: there's true

[4:21:02] Planner Thomaidis: removal and land alteration um yeah so i have up on the screen here um the proposed

[4:21:09] Planner Thomaidis: development permit uh and there isn't there are a number of proposed conditions in the development

[4:21:17] Planner Thomaidis: permit but one of them um 3.4 i don't know if you can see that it's kind of maybe small on the

[4:21:22] Planner Thomaidis: screen but um the 10 point the 10 meter by 10 meter cleared area north of the accessory building

[4:21:29] Planner Thomaidis: atop the slope, she'll be replanted with native shrubs to provide ground cover, such as Newt

[4:21:35] Planner Thomaidis: Carrose, Red Flowering Current, Red Huckleberry, Yarrow, and Dill Oak Oregon Grape, two years in

[4:21:41] Planner Thomaidis: the date of issuance of the permit to the satisfaction of a qualified environmental

[4:21:45] Planner Thomaidis: professional. And that condition in the permit is based on the recommendations in the qualified

[4:21:53] Planner Thomaidis: environmental professional report that was provided as part of the development permit

[4:21:58] Planner Thomaidis: permit application. So that 10 by 10 meter area includes the entire area that was where trees

[4:22:06] Planner Thomaidis: were removed or land was cleared. That's specified in the permit because the QEP report describing

[4:22:13] Planner Thomaidis: all of the land alteration is also an attachment to the permit itself as a schedule under Schedule

[4:22:21] Planner Thomaidis: be here so i think that that makes it clear obviously that would only be with permission

[4:22:30] Planner Thomaidis: of the neighboring property owner or sorry permission um to of the applicant to to

[4:22:37] Planner Thomaidis: trespass to do that um replanting and restoration work that

[4:22:47] Voice 37: answers my question my

[4:22:48] Member of the public: second question

[4:22:49] Member of the public: was that one of the encouragements which is the concrete pad is missing from the survey map

[4:22:55] Member of the public: that was provided in the report and i feel that that survey map is an individual tool for the

[4:23:01] Member of the public: committee to use as an evaluation and so i'm wondering why there's that discrepancy

[4:23:08] Planner Thomaidis: what survey map yeah i'm wondering which survey map you're referring to because there's

[4:23:12] Planner Thomaidis: there's a few well

[4:23:14] Member of the public: it would be the survey map with application 53 the development variance

[4:23:18] Member of the public: its permit so it's probably right back on page 56. there's a map that comes before the house drawing

[4:23:30] Trustee Borthwick: do you want me to if i go through these ones here do you want to maybe

[4:23:34] Trustee Borthwick: point out which one you're talking about that's helpful

[4:24:03] Voice 21: But it's not a legit process. There's just a list of page 255.

[4:24:09] Voice 21: Sounds better. There's a large concrete pad here. It's just

[4:24:17] Member of the public: not on this map. It is on my survey,

[4:24:20] Member of the public: and it's mentioned in the report. That's a visual tool that you use for your assessment,

[4:24:24] Member of the public: so I think that's important that you know that, and I don't know why there's that discrepancy.

[4:24:28] Member of the public: So this corner, is that what you're referring to?

[4:24:30] Member of the public: Yeah, it goes out like this. There's a concrete pad walkway right here.

[4:24:35] Member of the public: it is partially online okay i mean that's what i'm seeing sure and it's not marked here this

[4:24:45] Member of the public: accessory is clear heat pump approaches on my survey map it mentions the cementing function

[4:24:50] Member of the public: so this

[4:24:53] Trustee Borthwick: is margo for sleeping again so yeah page 259

[4:25:01] Planner Thomaidis: 259 yeah and

[4:25:08] Member of the public: of course the survey map that i

[4:25:10] Member of the public: had done has was submitted with my original complaint. So that

[4:25:13] Member of the public: was trust housing.

[4:25:14] Member of the public: It gets in the file file. Fargo.

[4:25:17] Voice 36: Yeah, I

[4:25:20] Trustee Graham (probable): just asked a

[4:25:20] Trustee Graham (probable): question. In terms of the concrete, there's audio on the

[4:25:26] Trustee Graham (probable): front and back. And there's a sidewalk along the side.

[4:25:31] Trustee Graham (probable): That's what I'm talking about. It's not on this. Right.

[4:25:37] Trustee Graham (probable): Under underneath the overhead. Underneath the overhead. So

[4:25:41] Trustee Graham (probable): So that's, that's probably why it was looking down, I can see the opening underneath.

[4:25:52] Trustee Graham (probable): It will be on the actual survey.

[4:25:54] Trustee Graham (probable): Yeah.

[4:25:55] Member of the public: So this is an actual survey, and they're done by the same surveyor, where it says heat pump

[4:26:01] Member of the public: encroachment on my survey map also indicates the concrete encroachment, and it's not on

[4:26:07] Member of the public: that map.

[4:26:10] Voice 20: But the concrete encroachment is listed.

[4:26:13] In the report, as far as being a mediation, it's not on the survey, but it's

[4:26:20] Trustee Graham (probable): just a question, but you know,

[4:26:23] Member of the public: the question was, why is there that discrepancy, because this is, this is a tool for you to evaluate this, and I feel like that's missing the dotted

[4:26:33] Trustee Graham (probable): line there, though, that's the extension of that's the perimeter of the concrete.

[4:26:41] Trustee Graham (probable): He's just put it in dot line. Yeah, right. But it's it still shows the actual frame of the concrete. Yeah, it's just like an overhang from sort of the turbine wheel.

[4:26:53] Trustee Graham (probable): Yeah, it's fine.

[4:26:54] Voice 20: It's not missed out of the action. It's just under one drive. There's

[4:27:00] Trustee Graham (probable): just one more label. Yeah, yeah.

[4:27:02] Voice 20: Okay, fair enough.

[4:27:04] Voice 20: Any other questions?

[4:27:05] Member of the public: My third question was that I'd like to know what evidence the staff relied

[4:27:09] Member of the public: upon to determine that the original historic garage footprint is exact. Is there a drawing?

[4:27:17] Member of the public: There's no, I assume, no original permit for that building, so why are we calling that a fact?

[4:27:26] Voice 20: Well, typically, Margo can address it, but typically we use aerial photography,

[4:27:30] Voice 20: because I think every couple of months things are overflowed by satellite.

[4:27:34] Voice 20: like but uh margo do you know or would that be a warranted thing yeah

[4:27:39] Planner Thomaidis: no it's through aerial

[4:27:40] Planner Thomaidis: photography through ortho photos that we confirmed at least as early as 2008 um that there was a

[4:27:47] Planner Thomaidis: structure in that location i

[4:27:51] Member of the public: agree that there was a structure in that location i don't think there's

[4:27:54] Member of the public: any dispute about that what my question is is how do we prove that the footprint is exact

[4:28:02] Trustee Graham (probable): As I said a few minutes ago, when you walk into the building, you can see the old footprint

[4:28:08] Trustee Graham (probable): right around a few corners.

[4:28:13] Voice 20: So you can build on the old foundation, that's what you're saying?

[4:28:17] Voice 20: Yes.

[4:28:18] Voice 20: So it's not anecdotal, it's actually where you built the walls, you built upon the old

[4:28:22] Voice 20: foundation.

[4:28:24] Member of the public: If that's the case, then the original building was also within the setback and that building

[4:28:30] Member of the public: was there before i purchased property the use of the building has changed there was development

[4:28:35] Member of the public: around the building that encroached on my property and so i don't think that we can just say that

[4:28:40] Member of the public: this is the same thing as a historic garage the use of the building has been an unlawful dwelling

[4:28:45] Member of the public: and they've indicated that they may wish to use it for residential rental use again in the future

[4:28:50] Member of the public: and that has not been brought up by the staff today in this report when

[4:29:05] Trustee Graham (probable): we amend our housing

[4:29:07] Trustee Graham (probable): housing regulations this property wouldn't be allowed to have a second well it's like yeah

[4:29:12] Trustee Graham (probable): I think it's within so obviously within 16 feet or something would there be any reason that the

[4:29:20] Trustee Graham (probable): use of that building would not be allowed because of its uh zero setback would there be some

[4:29:26] Trustee Graham (probable): requirement that that that secondary dwelling comply with setback arms just now make this

[4:29:39] Trustee Graham (probable): de facto a legal accessory dwelling that could be used for any other use that becomes legal

[4:29:45] Trustee Graham (probable): without our bylaws?

[4:29:49] Planner Thomaidis: Through the chair that's a that's a good question you know it would be

[4:29:53] Planner Thomaidis: I haven't encountered that before it would be I mean this this permit

[4:30:00] Planner Thomaidis: this development variance permit if approved would allow the structure and building of that height

[4:30:06] Planner Thomaidis: and that size that floor area in that location it doesn't address use yes it's right now it's

[4:30:15] Planner Thomaidis: it would be approved as just an accessory use but in the you know that that's whole

[4:30:23] Planner Thomaidis: whole um development variance permits don't vary use they just vary siting and setback and

[4:30:30] Planner Thomaidis: and um heightened buildings they so yeah it would be interesting i think um there would probably be

[4:30:38] Planner Thomaidis: a lot of building accessory buildings all over the island that don't specifically meet uh setback

[4:30:46] Planner Thomaidis: requirements that if you, as an LTC, choose to allow secondary accessory dwellings on a bunch

[4:30:56] Planner Thomaidis: of new properties would be potentially converted into those accessory rental dwellings. So I can't

[4:31:06] Planner Thomaidis: say that there could be multiple instances like this one across the island. It

[4:31:12] Planner (probable): would. I think it

[4:31:13] Planner (probable): wouldn't be like the the dbp there like varies the structure so the structure is permitted in

[4:31:19] Planner (probable): that location it does talk nothing about the use once the use is if the use is allowed then the

[4:31:25] Planner (probable): use is allowed like a secondary dwelling is allowed on

[4:31:29] Voice 22: that plot and

[4:31:32] Member of the public: if i may something

[4:31:33] Member of the public: that was brought up at this meeting today multiple times is how the future can change how people

[4:31:39] Member of the public: change and use of land changes and it's fine for brad today to say to me that he does not intend

[4:31:45] Member of the public: in any way to use my part of the land for access to maintain that building but that's only a promise

[4:31:52] Member of the public: made today this variance is permanent and i don't

[4:31:55] Member of the public: understand the justification for removing my legal

[4:31:59] Member of the public: right to the three meter setback to protect my property from requiring permanent access for

[4:32:05] Member of the public: not for future maintenance especially if the building eventually becomes a residential use

[4:32:10] Member of the public: again that's a very different use than a craft

[4:32:12] Trustee Graham (probable): studio yeah i know that's that's legitimate the

[4:32:18] Trustee Graham (probable): balance that we have of course is do we feel that the removal of the building is a is a better

[4:32:24] Trustee Graham (probable): result and that's a tough one sam that's a really tough one this application is for present uses

[4:32:32] Trustee Graham (probable): This is not for future use.

[4:32:33] Trustee Graham (probable): Variance is forever.

[4:32:35] Trustee Graham (probable): Yeah, it's a building that exists forever.

[4:32:40] Trustee Graham (probable): Just through

[4:32:42] Planner Thomaidis: the chair to clarify, variances are not forever.

[4:32:44] Planner Thomaidis: Variances apply to that specific building.

[4:32:50] Planner Thomaidis: That building ages and it needs to get replaced in the future

[4:32:55] Planner Thomaidis: and it's torn down.

[4:32:58] Planner Thomaidis: this variance here doesn't allow it to be rebuilt once it's torn down once it's torn down you have

[4:33:04] Planner Thomaidis: to apply for invariance to cite you know

[4:33:09] Planner Thomaidis: you you or or meet or meet the setback requirements just

[4:33:13] Planner Thomaidis: to clarify for information thank

[4:33:15] Member of the public: you for that and brad also said in his statements that that

[4:33:18] Member of the public: building is built that it could last for quite some time the way it's structured yeah

[4:33:27] Voice 21: thank you

[4:33:33] Voice 21: but okay thank you i

[4:33:37] Voice 23: mean

[4:33:39] Trustee Borthwick: so obviously you know i mean there's there's we've spoken a lot i think

[4:33:47] Trustee Borthwick: to the technicalities i think that that's absolutely it's important and i appreciate

[4:33:50] Trustee Borthwick: sam your questions and trying to bring that up the heart of this matter is a question of

[4:33:57] Trustee Borthwick: coexistence and what potential there is for that so and it may be that there is maybe that there

[4:34:03] needs to be a strict uh strict delineation here in terms of property access and whatever else

[4:34:09] that is fundamentally between the two of you um and as you say in your letter sam like you

[4:34:16] you know this is not intended to be a a question of us

[4:34:21] Trustee Borthwick: uh regulating a conversation between neighbors

[4:34:25] um all of that being being born

[4:34:30] Trustee Borthwick: in mind and i and and you know i think uh brad has spoken to

[4:34:38] Trustee Borthwick: acknowledging that there was a mistake

[4:34:39] Trustee Borthwick: that this was

[4:34:42] Trustee Borthwick: not intended and I imagine

[4:34:44] Trustee Borthwick: had the property line

[4:34:46] Trustee Borthwick: had they been more aware

[4:34:49] Trustee Borthwick: of the property line in the past, they may well have done

[4:34:50] Trustee Borthwick: things differently. I don't know. I can't speak to that

[4:34:53] Trustee Borthwick: if that wasn't there.

[4:34:55] You are going to

[4:34:56] continue to be neighbors

[4:34:58] for the foreseeable future.

[4:35:01] Trustee Borthwick: My

[4:35:03] hope would be that you guys

[4:35:05] can find a way to

[4:35:07] Trustee Borthwick: work something out here um you know arrange an easement that allows for some

[4:35:16] i'm allowed to speak that

[4:35:19] Trustee Borthwick: that's my my hope would be that neighbors can work together to figure out

[4:35:22] Trustee Borthwick: how they negotiate lines on them you know we can talk about the history of of land use and

[4:35:29] Trustee Borthwick: how private property exists and all that sort of stuff but fundamentally this is a question

[4:35:33] Trustee Borthwick: of neighbors and whether you want to what what's what level of uh what level of discourse you're

[4:35:41] Trustee Borthwick: comfortable having about this this situation which is absolutely which exists um you may not be

[4:35:50] Trustee Borthwick: willing to to have any discussion on that front is that am i correct in that assessment actually

[4:35:56] Member of the public: i think you're missing some important uh information and that's that i've been nothing

[4:36:00] Member of the public: but friendly and accommodating from day one on this and i have heard nothing from them for six

[4:36:05] Member of the public: months on how to resolve them with this yes they've been involved in the process

[4:36:12] Voice 15: too sure you know i know this i want to this

[4:36:16] Trustee Borthwick: is pardon me i'm just this is my way of sort of

[4:36:19] Trustee Borthwick: trying to get like let's let's talk and again it shouldn't be you shouldn't i shouldn't have

[4:36:25] Trustee Borthwick: to be babysitting this conversation but from my perspective as someone who is now sitting

[4:36:30] Trustee Borthwick: with this plan you you have brought this forward to bylaw enforcement this is this decision now

[4:36:35] Trustee Borthwick: sits on on our collective desk so before we start voting on things i want to see if there's a

[4:36:43] Trustee Borthwick: potential for conversations to be had um if there is a potential for a path forward to be to be made

[4:36:52] Trustee Borthwick: that you know protects your your rights and and and acknowledges and respects the mistake that

[4:36:57] Trustee Borthwick: was made and and can move this forward in a good way i think it behooves us as a community and and

[4:37:03] Trustee Borthwick: members of this community and specifically just you guys because it's not anybody else's business

[4:37:08] Trustee Borthwick: um to you know i would hope that this doesn't we don't litigate these kinds of decisions in this

[4:37:15] Trustee Borthwick: way always and that there is some discussion if there is room for you know there could be some

[4:37:21] Trustee Borthwick: discussion about okay okay so if the building is going to be here if you're i mean if your

[4:37:24] Trustee Borthwick: perspective is otherwise no the building must go is is that your objective no

[4:37:29] Member of the public: my objective is that

[4:37:30] Member of the public: that I do not want to give up the three meters that every property owner on this island has a

[4:37:34] Member of the public: right to to maintain so that there isn't a dependency on access to my property I might

[4:37:41] Member of the public: be uncomfortable with say a chemical that's being used or something like that and I don't want to

[4:37:46] Member of the public: have to maintain a relationship to babysit everything that's happening on that piece of land

[4:37:50] Member of the public: okay

[4:37:50] Trustee Borthwick: so again that a little like that to some degree and I and I understand the reasons for it

[4:37:56] Trustee Borthwick: and i fully appreciate the reasons that we have setbacks like i get that um the the fact of the

[4:38:03] Trustee Borthwick: situation is we are now in a position where there is a building that is on the property line and

[4:38:07] Trustee Borthwick: slightly um my question is it like if if a if the way i see this is either some sort of resolution

[4:38:19] Trustee Borthwick: has to come forward between you guys in terms of how you're going to manage this space or is the

[4:38:26] Trustee Borthwick: alternative that a building gets torn down is that is this the binary that we're talking about here

[4:38:30] Trustee Borthwick: or is there more

[4:38:31] Member of the public: options i am not a builder but there may be a middle ground to that of moving

[4:38:36] Member of the public: beyond and out of the setback

[4:38:38] Trustee Borthwick: so so that so the building's right on the line though that would

[4:38:42] Trustee Borthwick: be a considerable architectural rework yes but that's what you are that's your perspective on

[4:38:47] Trustee Borthwick: what the resolution looks like and just so i'm and i'm this is not me asking because i have an

[4:38:51] Trustee Borthwick: agenda i'm asking for so i know i

[4:38:53] Member of the public: i don't have total clarity about what that would be but as i'm

[4:38:57] Member of the public: saying you know i just think that the three meter setback is extremely important reducing it to zero

[4:39:02] Member of the public: i just do not think has been justified okay

[4:39:04] Trustee Borthwick: and so let's let's and you're you're speaking to this

[4:39:08] Trustee Borthwick: report which i appreciate um in a world where there is a justification um is there a room for

[4:39:18] Trustee Borthwick: for that discussion to happen,

[4:39:19] Trustee Borthwick: where something can be worked out

[4:39:21] Trustee Borthwick: and that an agreement can be cut.

[4:39:22] Trustee Borthwick: I

[4:39:23] Member of the public: have been from the beginning.

[4:39:26] Trustee Borthwick: The history, it doesn't matter.

[4:39:27] Trustee Borthwick: We're talking about right now.

[4:39:28] Trustee Borthwick: This is from my information.

[4:39:29] Trustee Borthwick: I'm new to this dynamic.

[4:39:31] Trustee Borthwick: Okay, cool.

[4:39:31] Trustee Borthwick: That's what I was hoping.

[4:39:33] Trustee Borthwick: And I assume, because I know you a little bit,

[4:39:35] Trustee Borthwick: I have a feeling that there's room for this discussion.

[4:39:39] Trustee Borthwick: So my, because I would much rather

[4:39:41] Trustee Borthwick: than me sitting here and handing down judgment

[4:39:43] Trustee Borthwick: in a very clinical sense,

[4:39:44] Trustee Borthwick: based on abstract property land laws,

[4:39:48] Trustee Borthwick: I would much rather be a somewhat removed party

[4:39:53] Trustee Borthwick: to a reconciliation that you guys can talk through.

[4:39:56] Trustee Borthwick: That, to me, is better for our community.

[4:39:58] Trustee Borthwick: It's better for you, I would hope.

[4:40:00] Trustee Borthwick: It's better for them.

[4:40:01] Trustee Borthwick: That's my hope of where this goes.

[4:40:04] Trustee Borthwick: In the absence of that being a possibility,

[4:40:07] Trustee Borthwick: and this is where I'm sort of building out this conversation,

[4:40:10] Trustee Borthwick: we will have to make a decision one way or another,

[4:40:12] Trustee Borthwick: And that will just be a question that we have to base based on what we know with the facts.

[4:40:17] Trustee Borthwick: And I appreciate, again, that you've wanted to sort of correct the record on some things.

[4:40:20] Trustee Borthwick: That is a part of this process and making sure that this is rigorous.

[4:40:23] Trustee Borthwick: Totally appreciate that.

[4:40:26] Trustee Borthwick: And the two ways that this goes is, one, there's some discussion.

[4:40:31] Trustee Borthwick: There's some more.

[4:40:32] Trustee Borthwick: And those can be legal agreements.

[4:40:33] Trustee Borthwick: They can be easements.

[4:40:34] Trustee Borthwick: They can be as binding as they need to be.

[4:40:36] Trustee Borthwick: or this is a decision that we make as a as an LTC which again isn't you know we make the legal

[4:40:43] determination and that's what that is um that that's all I'm saying in this just want you to

[4:40:48] understand sort of my perspective here not trying

[4:40:51] Trustee Borthwick: to be prescriptive

[4:40:52] Member of the public: you've mentioned easements

[4:40:54] Member of the public: twice and easement gives them all the benefit and reduces my property values

[4:41:00] Member of the public: these are decisions that were made not just once but over and over and over again to disregard our

[4:41:07] Member of the public: violence and i think that history is important because i'm now expected to trust that if the

[4:41:14] Member of the public: variance is granted that all of the things they say they will do will actually happen and if they

[4:41:19] Member of the public: don't i don't have any bylaw that i can rely on to help me out in that situation the setback is

[4:41:27] Member of the public: I mean,

[4:41:29] Trustee Borthwick: as I understand it, a lot of this is based on those things being done.

[4:41:36] And I appreciate that you're speaking to the past of this, but our job now is to figure out what the future is going to be.

[4:41:43] Trustee Borthwick: So it's about what are people willing to do, what discussions, what conversations are willing to be had through whatever mechanism that will make sure that you feel comfortable and protected.

[4:41:56] Like, that's very important to me.

[4:41:58] absolutely and if there is no mechanism by which this can move forward in a in a

[4:42:04] Trustee Borthwick: reconciliatory way

[4:42:06] Trustee Borthwick: then we will just go forward forth with whatever decisions we have to make that's it what my

[4:42:11] Trustee Borthwick: question is is me getting a sense of if there is willingness to do this a different way or if it's

[4:42:16] Trustee Borthwick: just down to us to make a decision that's that's what i'm trying to require

[4:42:22] Voice 20: so i'm just trying to pull this back to the table this is a business between the applicant and the

[4:42:27] Voice 20: LPC. So I appreciate you've been involved in the conversation. I

[4:42:30] Voice 20: need to return this back to the tables, because this is getting

[4:42:33] Voice 20: a little bit and just Lucy goes. So please speak.

[4:42:37] Voice 20: So one

[4:42:38] Voice 7: of the things I just want to say is because prior to the

[4:42:41] Voice 7: complaints being filed, we did have discussions with the

[4:42:43] Voice 7: members. And there was this idea that we could work to a

[4:42:46] Voice 7: resolution, I just want to say that one of the things we talked

[4:42:48] Voice 7: about was, in addition to our neighbors granting us an

[4:42:52] Voice 7: easement for the overage that we also discussed very quickly,

[4:42:55] Voice 7: but there was no response from sam at the time uh us granting him and him and win an easement

[4:43:01] Voice 7: with respect to a forested section of our property that that would be of interest to them whether it

[4:43:07] Voice 7: is an equivalent uh easement or larger than the easement that they would be reaching to us uh

[4:43:13] Voice 7: that discussion sort of came to a close we got the complaints and and uh i mean you may have

[4:43:19] Voice 7: different perspectives on this but we read that you weren't interested um and we got sort of busy

[4:43:23] Voice 7: with the with the permit process etc but we are still open to having a discussion around a legal

[4:43:30] Voice 7: way to grant you know um through compensation and easement for him to grant an easement in

[4:43:37] Voice 7: exchange for compensation or for us to grant um easements um mutually i don't know if that was

[4:43:44] Voice 7: clear

[4:43:45] Voice 20: so so my real situation right now is either we defer this to the next meeting and allow the

[4:43:52] Voice 20: a conversation and figure it out, or we make a decision, but we can't, we can't have, no,

[4:43:58] Voice 15: no, I mean, I was, yeah, just a

[4:44:02] Voice 15: little bit.

[4:44:10] Trustee Graham (probable): I would be happy to engage resolution agreement. I think my neighbor has given one option,

[4:44:26] Trustee Graham (probable): maybe move the setback or move the house. Impossible. You can't move the house. I looked

[4:44:36] Trustee Graham (probable): at all those options. My sense is that you don't want the building there. That is your

[4:44:48] Trustee Graham (probable): bottom line and that's the message we got from you right from the beginning, that this

[4:44:54] Trustee Graham (probable): This was your option in terms of our discussions.

[4:45:00] Trustee Graham (probable): I want to put it to you, the trustees, from what I've heard from trustees and what I understand

[4:45:09] Trustee Graham (probable): about processes is that you can make a decision, it's not going to meet the needs of the applicant

[4:45:21] Trustee Graham (probable): can't necessarily bore the complainant, but you're obligated to make a decision on this.

[4:45:31] Voice 12: Delay, I would be happy to have delay till August, knowing that the

[4:45:38] Trustee Graham (probable): two of us could reach

[4:45:40] Trustee Graham (probable): an agreement together, but I have no faith, really, that you want anything less than or

[4:45:45] Trustee Graham (probable): and move all of their buildings.

[4:45:47] Trustee Graham (probable): We can't move it, we can't separate and divide it.

[4:45:52] Trustee Graham (probable): You know, because now if you grant the variance,

[4:45:56] Trustee Graham (probable): we have the variance, the building is there,

[4:46:00] Trustee Graham (probable): then we know that we can entertain the discussion

[4:46:06] Trustee Graham (probable): about resolution of, you know, an easement

[4:46:10] Trustee Graham (probable): or whatever the solutions are.

[4:46:12] Trustee Graham (probable): But if we don't know that the building

[4:46:14] Trustee Graham (probable): is actually going to stand and it's moot. We can't talk about negotiating at all.

[4:46:21] Trustee Graham (probable): So I would put it to you, back to my original request and the recommendation of the planners

[4:46:32] Trustee Graham (probable): that we make a decision in favor of granting the variants and the development permit.

[4:46:43] Trustee Graham (probable): And believe me, Heather and I would do everything we can to go out of our way to give our neighbor more of an easement or pay him for the easement rather than pay the carpenter.

[4:46:58] Trustee Graham (probable): I mean, we've got our way to, but either the building stands or it doesn't.

[4:47:04] Trustee Graham (probable): So let's decide that the building is going to stand because that is a reasonable, I think,

[4:47:15] Trustee Graham (probable): decision to come to based on, you have a lot more information that their dwelling is on

[4:47:22] Trustee Graham (probable): the far side of the property.

[4:47:24] Trustee Graham (probable): It's over 10 acres is property, minus 13.

[4:47:29] Trustee Graham (probable): your interest and desire to use that area, but what are the, you know,

[4:47:34] Trustee Graham (probable): I brought people to show this and there's our house,

[4:47:39] Trustee Graham (probable): there's forest, you know, on the side of it. This is 11 acres.

[4:47:44] Trustee Graham (probable): It's 11 acres or 10 acres on their side, 13 on ours. It's,

[4:47:49] Trustee Graham (probable): it's, you know, a couple of feet. Anyway,

[4:47:53] Trustee Graham (probable): I don't want to go on, but what I would ask you for,

[4:47:57] Trustee Graham (probable): What I would lean towards the decision based on the best evidence available, you're reading

[4:48:03] Trustee Graham (probable): all of the expertise, experience, professionalism that the planners use to recommend to you,

[4:48:12] Trustee Graham (probable): I would ask you to vote in favor of this as they should, these, these permits.

[4:48:18] Trustee Graham (probable): we have to do our work now right yeah and you know and we've looked at all the alternatives

[4:48:26] Trustee Graham (probable): i appreciate the fact that there may be some discussion after we make a decision it would

[4:48:31] Trustee Graham (probable): be good on you if you guys could do that that'd be great but i think i'm prepared to make a motion

[4:48:37] Trustee Graham (probable): at this point um as difficult as it is i have to agree that this is i don't want to see the

[4:48:43] Trustee Graham (probable): but perfectly the building destroyed despite the fact that it's not set back it can't be moved

[4:48:48] Trustee Graham (probable): the opportunity to purchase some property and make that yours or that doesn't seem to exist

[4:48:55] Trustee Graham (probable): so i believe the trust committee approved issuance element permit pl and i believe this

[4:49:02] Trustee Graham (probable): is a misprint i think it should be pl bp 2026 zero zero five two four nine okay

[4:49:11] Voice 20: could you just

[4:49:11] Voice 20: skipped from Margo, is it supposed to be DVP or DP?

[4:49:20] Planner Thomaidis: They're both. There's both a DVP

[4:49:21] Planner Thomaidis: and a DP.

[4:49:23] Trustee Graham (probable): But they're both labeled DVP.

[4:49:25] Planner Thomaidis: Oh, okay. That is a mistake. The DP was 0052,

[4:49:31] Planner Thomaidis: I believe. Let me double check.

[4:49:33] Voice 20: Sorry about that.

[4:49:37] Voice 20: So call the question, all in favor?

[4:49:41] Trustee Graham (probable): I'll continue, and that the Demanale Local Trust Committee approve issuance of development

[4:49:46] Trustee Graham (probable): variance permit PLDBP 2026-0053.2 for the discussion, and my hope of landing in a place

[4:49:58] Trustee Graham (probable): where everybody can walk out of here feeling that they've been treated reasonable may not

[4:50:03] Trustee Graham (probable): have happened, but this is the test we can do today, and I apologize if we didn't do

[4:50:07] Trustee Graham (probable): about but i'm ready for the question i similarly like again

[4:50:13] Trustee Borthwick: and as i was saying like this is not

[4:50:15] Trustee Borthwick: uh obviously the the i think an ideal way to do resolution of these things

[4:50:23] Trustee Borthwick: by far the the vast quantity of this building is well outside of the setbacks and i appreciate

[4:50:29] Trustee Borthwick: that there's some concern about about the the use of the space around it

[4:50:34] Trustee Borthwick: um but cutting off the nose despite the face doesn't satisfy me either um so i'm yeah i'm

[4:50:41] Trustee Borthwick: happy to to the question okay

[4:50:43] Voice 21: call question operator

[4:50:44] Trustee Graham (probable): that

[4:50:45] Voice 21: carries um

[4:50:51] Voice 20: moving on uh local

[4:50:53] estimated projects uh maybe court didn't house i'll house review of your standing plan land use

[4:51:01] project

[4:51:02] Voice 20: uh verbal update i'm assuming the last kind of chat i think

[4:51:06] Planner (probable): she had to step out but

[4:51:07] Planner (probable): but I'm happy to give that update.

[4:51:10] Voice 20: I'll make it negative because

[4:51:11] Planner (probable): there's not a lot to update,

[4:51:14] Planner (probable): but the bylaws are out for referral with nations and agencies.

[4:51:19] Planner (probable): We're expecting them back mid-August.

[4:51:23] Planner (probable): And staff have had two meetings with the whole nation regarding the referral

[4:51:27] Planner (probable): and have received some preliminary feedback so far.

[4:51:31] Planner (probable): There's a community information meeting scheduled for July 11th.

[4:51:35] Planner (probable): and then staff will also be at the farmers market that day

[4:51:41] Planner (probable): people want to come by and ask questions and then on september 15th there's the public hearing

[4:51:48] Voice 20: actually thank you very much any questions you're satisfied i think

[4:51:54] Trustee Borthwick: i'm unfortunately going to be

[4:51:55] Trustee Borthwick: working most of that general but i will prepare if i can get

[4:52:00] Voice 15: out if i can get out

[4:52:00] Trustee Borthwick: i will do my best

[4:52:01] Trustee Borthwick: that i think i'm probably driving a bus as long as we have a forum you

[4:52:05] Voice 22: will

[4:52:06] Trustee Borthwick: have a forum i'm sure

[4:52:08] Trustee Borthwick: the david's will represent you right now okay um so now we're going off to a whole other world

[4:52:16] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: uh on page 261 13.1 of course the notification bio number 232 amendment and i see mr dingman

[4:52:24] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: has come on to the board

[4:52:25] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: so over to you mr dean

[4:52:28] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: good afternoon chair uh the administrative

[4:52:32] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: administrative bylaw staff report and administrative bylaw this before you is for the

[4:52:37] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: bylaw enforcement notice bylaw what this amendment will do is it will add a penalty

[4:52:44] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: for failure to obtain a development permit in any development permit area on denman island

[4:52:51] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: It will be a $500 penalty, and it will, if this penalty is assessed, any respondent, disputant can enter a compliance agreement, and they get a 100% discount on the penalty as long as they agree to get the appropriate development permit.

[4:53:17] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: There are a number of other, I think now almost all of the northern region local trust areas have such a penalty.

[4:53:30] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: The only outlier now may be Thetis and Belenus-Winchelsea.

[4:53:35] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: Hornby has it, Gambier has it, Gabriola has it.

[4:53:39] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: Liskiti doesn't have a bend by law, so they're not involved in this process.

[4:53:44] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: But these other local trust committees have adopted such a penalty for their Bend by-law.

[4:53:53] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: And what else?

[4:53:54] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: So this amendment by-law would simply delete the previous Schedule A and adopt a new one with the new penalty.

[4:54:06] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: That, I think, is everything I need to go over here.

[4:54:11] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: Are there any questions, Chair?

[4:54:13] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: um well trustees and just one question for me um 500 is the maximum that you can let me

[4:54:20] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: that is correct yep

[4:54:21] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: so that's the reason we'll be planning so trustees questions

[4:54:24] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: for us today

[4:54:25] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: no question no we asked for it you've delivered thank you very much we appreciate it welcome mr

[4:54:31] Committee member (uncertain): dingman so who wants to read out so happy to start i do want to say exactly the request for the

[4:54:46] Committee member (uncertain): I move the Devon Island Local Trust Committee bylaw number 265, cited as Devon Island Local

[4:54:51] Committee member (uncertain): Trust Committee bylaw number 232, 2019, amendment number 1226, be read the first time.

[4:54:59] Committee member (uncertain): I move

[4:55:00] Trustee Borthwick: that the Devon Island Local Trust Committee bylaw number 265, cited as Devon Island Local

[4:55:08] Trustee Borthwick: trust committee bylaw enforcement notification bylaw number 232 2019 amendment number one 2026

[4:55:14] Trustee Borthwick: this is

[4:55:16] Committee member (uncertain): my nap time you know three o'clock but a discussion

[4:55:22] Committee member (uncertain): chronic question

[4:55:26] Committee member (uncertain): that's carried i

[4:55:27] Committee member (uncertain): moved that the denver local trust committee bylaw 265 cited this demo

[4:55:30] Committee member (uncertain): and i don't look at the trust committee by the enforcement medication file number 52

[4:55:33] Committee member (uncertain): 2, 2019, Amendment Number 1, 2026.

[4:55:36] Committee member (uncertain): Do you read a third?

[4:55:38] Committee member (uncertain): Second that.

[4:55:39] Committee member (uncertain): For the discussion, call the question, or

[4:55:41] Trustee Borthwick: favor that carries.

[4:55:42] Trustee Borthwick: And I move that the Devon Island Local Trust Committee bylaw number 265, cited as Devon

[4:55:46] Trustee Borthwick: Island Local Trust Committee bylaw enforcement notification bylaw number 232, 2019, Amendment

[4:55:50] Trustee Borthwick: Number 1, 2026, be forwarded to the Secretary of the Island Trust for approval by the Executive.

[4:55:56] Committee member (uncertain): Second.

[4:55:57] Committee member (uncertain): And for

[4:55:58] Committee member (uncertain): discussion, call the question, or favor that carries.

[4:56:01] Committee member (uncertain): Thank you, Mr. Damon, for work.

[4:56:03] Committee member (uncertain): Well done.

[4:56:05] Warren Dingman, Manager of Bylaw Compliance & Enforcement: You're welcome, Chair.

[4:56:06] Chair Maude (probable): All right.

[4:56:07] Chair Maude (probable): We will see you shortly.

[4:56:09] Chair Maude (probable): So moving on, on page 265, we have public notification amendment,

[4:56:14] Chair Maude (probable): the file number 295 for final adoption.

[4:56:17] Chair Maude (probable): I think this is pretty straightforward.

[4:56:19] Chair Maude (probable): It is, except it has

[4:56:21] Trustee Borthwick: a mistake in it.

[4:56:23] Trustee Borthwick: The Hornby Island Local Trust Committee, they're not here.

[4:56:26] Trustee Borthwick: So you guys are going to have to make do with us making changes to our

[4:56:29] Trustee Borthwick: bylaws and not Hornby doing it for us.

[4:56:32] Trustee Borthwick: So, yes, we'll just read that out separately, but it is incorrect in the staff report.

[4:56:37] Trustee Borthwick: I move that the Denman Island Local Trust Committee,

[4:56:41] Trustee Borthwick: bylaw number 259, cited as Denman Local Trust Committee

[4:56:44] Trustee Borthwick: public notification bylaw number 259-2025 be adopted.

[4:56:48] Trustee Borthwick: I second.

[4:56:49] Trustee Borthwick: Any further discussion?

[4:56:51] Chair Maude (probable): Call the question.

[4:56:52] Chair Maude (probable): All in favor?

[4:56:52] Chair Maude (probable): That carries.

[4:56:53] Chair Maude (probable): Congratulations.

[4:56:56] Chair Maude (probable): Good work.

[4:56:59] Chair Maude (probable): um so through this stuff so we have an applications report on page 269

[4:57:05] Chair Maude (probable): i don't use anything to be raised on that does anyone have any questions

[4:57:09] Chair Maude (probable): i

[4:57:10] Chair Maude (probable): don't remember i think that it may be on something but i don't

[4:57:15] Chair Maude (probable): at all

[4:57:15] Chair Maude (probable): doesn't look like it

[4:57:16] Chair Maude (probable): okay so we have our trustee of local expense report

[4:57:20] Chair Maude (probable): for your information policies for information um and we roll down to um age 291 active projects

[4:57:27] Chair Maude (probable): report not saying that we know well about that i think so upcoming meetings often we have meetings

[4:57:36] Chair Maude (probable): next special meeting to hold the community information schedule percent saturday 21 11

[4:57:41] Chair Maude (probable): 20 26 at 2 p.m at the denman community hall and that's external

[4:57:44] Chair Maude (probable): and then the next regular meeting is monday august 24th 2026 at 10

[4:57:52] Chair Maude (probable): a.m activity center

[4:57:53] Chair Maude (probable): it right here and then we hope so now we have a motion to go in camera

[4:58:00] Chair Maude (probable): now where that is

[4:58:07] Trustee Borthwick: let the meeting be closed to the public in accordance with the community charter part

[4:58:11] Trustee Borthwick: four division three section ninety section one happened the purpose of considering

[4:58:17] Trustee Borthwick: law enforcement if the council decides that disclosure would recently reasonably expect

[4:58:20] Trustee Borthwick: to conduct an investigation under or enforcement of an enactment and that the recorder and staff

[4:58:25] Trustee Borthwick: staff attend the meeting

[4:58:26] Chair Maude (probable): second second

[4:58:28] Trustee Borthwick: for the discussion

[4:58:29] Chair Maude (probable): call question favorite Harry and we

[4:58:32] Chair Maude (probable): are in cameras

[4:58:33] Chair Maude (probable): please take a great yes one

[4:58:35] Chair Maude (probable): moment please yeah

[4:58:37] Chair Maude (probable): yeah absolutely we're not we're still

[4:58:39] Chair Maude (probable): still, like

[4:58:41] Chair Maude (probable): burping the room of all the things I've had

[4:58:45] Chair Maude (probable): at least one.