Islands Trust Council regular meeting, May 31, 2021

[0:00:00] Voice 3: Mm-hmm.

[0:00:03] Voice 6: And it could actually be more. I mean, the reality is that's only, you know, reduces the

[0:00:08] Voice 6: carbon footprint of the cement by about 15%, but in Europe, they can do 20 and 25.

[0:00:14] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, it could be much more. The airport down in Seattle, I know we're just about to start here,

[0:00:19] Trustee Morrison: but the airport down in Seattle did a like 10-year investing mechanism to get green aviation fuel

[0:00:25] Trustee Morrison: in place and so they basically like forecasted that they're going to use it so like they helped

[0:00:32] Trustee Morrison: the industry move toward like knowing there's going to be a market for it and then like so

[0:00:36] Trustee Morrison: i thought that was really smart and like if there was a way

[0:00:38] Trustee Morrison: there

[0:00:39] Voice 3: you

[0:00:44] Voice 6: go um

[0:00:47] Trustee Middleton: i think we're waiting on our cao if i'm not mistaken or maybe he's there

[0:00:54] Trustee Middleton: and not showing on the screen there he

[0:00:56] Trustee Middleton: is there he's okay uh

[0:01:00] Voice 6: deb do you know kate simeon university

[0:01:02] Voice 6: of washington in the architectural

[0:01:04] Voice 6: school no no

[0:01:06] Trustee Morrison: no

[0:01:07] Voice 6: she she runs a program there on um

[0:01:10] Voice 6: on uh you know dealing with carbon issues and uh you know she's you know quite uh you know she's

[0:01:16] Voice 6: just recently tenured at the university of washington i have to look around yeah worth

[0:01:21] Voice 6: looking at it

[0:01:25] Trustee Middleton: i'm sorry i my computer

[0:01:34] Voice 3: this

[0:01:37] Trustee Middleton: ought to work i don't know why this laptop

[0:01:40] Trustee Middleton: picks up my desktop phone it's a mystery to me not to worry um so just seeing as just past one

[0:01:53] Trustee Middleton: o'clock i believe we have everybody in attendance who we will have in attendance and and before

[0:01:58] Trustee Middleton: Before we begin the meeting, I'd just like to turn the meeting over to the floor, over to the Chair of Trust Council, Peter Lockham, who would like to say some words, very relevant words at this time.

[0:02:15] Trustee Middleton: So over to you, Chair Lockham.

[0:02:19] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you, Chair Middleton, for providing me this opportunity.

[0:02:23] Trustee Luckham: Peter Lockham, elected on Thetis Island in L'Aix and in Penelope Territory, honoured to be here.

[0:02:34] Trustee Luckham: This is my first opportunity to be in a public meeting which is being broadcast to those that are interested in this Government and Management Review

[0:02:45] Trustee Luckham: and felt that it was important to acknowledge the events of the last few

[0:02:52] Trustee Luckham: days in the Tecumalps de Secuaptum territories in Kamloops where 215

[0:03:04] Trustee Luckham: 15 children have been found in that community on the site of the residential school there.

[0:03:16] Trustee Luckham: The largest school in British Columbia with students from across the province and across

[0:03:23] Trustee Luckham: the country. And so this has certainly dramatic impacts for all communities, everyone. And I just

[0:03:33] Trustee Luckham: want to share my own personal grief and thoughts that are with everybody, the families,

[0:03:42] Trustee Luckham: the communities for these loved ones. And I just finally say that, you know, this is the

[0:03:50] Trustee Luckham: significance of the work that is going on nationally with Truth and Reconciliation and

[0:03:57] Trustee Luckham: And missing and murdered Indigenous women and children, because this is an example of the truth, and it's about children.

[0:04:07] Trustee Luckham: And I just, my words won't change history or reconcile the loss.

[0:04:16] Trustee Luckham: I'll just note that this has been recorded internationally, not just nationally in British Columbia.

[0:04:22] Trustee Luckham: I've spoken over the weekend with a number of people around the globe, and they have

[0:04:27] Trustee Luckham: all mentioned it.

[0:04:28] Trustee Luckham: And so the world is grieving with the Kamloops and the First Nations throughout British Columbia

[0:04:35] Trustee Luckham: and beyond.

[0:04:36] Trustee Luckham: So thank you for that moment, H. Katsiam.

[0:04:42] Trustee Middleton: Thank you very much, Chair Luck, I much appreciate it.

[0:04:47] Trustee Middleton: And so without diminishing those very important sentiments, we'll obviously turn to our business at hand here, which is the meeting of the Select Committee and the Governance and Management Review for the Islands Trust.

[0:05:04] Trustee Middleton: and would first, of course, like to acknowledge

[0:05:09] Trustee Middleton: that we are meeting on the territory of the traditional territories

[0:05:14] Trustee Middleton: of the Coast Salish peoples, various nations,

[0:05:17] Trustee Middleton: depending on which you or I are speaking from,

[0:05:21] Trustee Middleton: and we acknowledge that fact with gratitude.

[0:05:26] Trustee Middleton: And without further ado, I would ask that anyone

[0:05:32] Trustee Middleton: anyone who has anything to add to the agenda before we approve it and seeing seeing no hands

[0:05:47] Trustee Middleton: or anything i think i'd ask for a motion to approve the agenda or we can approve that by

[0:05:51] Trustee Middleton: consent if uh all

[0:05:56] Voice 6: right okay

[0:05:58] Trustee Middleton: i'll take that as approved approved by consent thank thank you very

[0:06:02] Trustee Middleton: much and so our next item of uh of business is um and and we'll get to a reintroduction i should

[0:06:09] Trustee Middleton: should say before we um before we uh uh commence our business items so just pardon pardon us while

[0:06:15] Trustee Middleton: we we move through our um our um uh administrative matters here so the next would be adoption of

[0:06:23] Trustee Middleton: minutes uh just section 3.1 on the agenda and is in the agenda package so any any additions or

[0:06:31] Trustee Middleton: corrections or adjustments to those minutes none okay seeing on can i ask for a motion to adopt

[0:06:38] Trustee Middleton: up those minutes please aye trustee kale seconded by uh trustee langerace um thank you uh next we

[0:06:48] Trustee Middleton: have our resolutions without uh meeting which there are none leading us to our follow-up action

[0:06:55] Trustee Middleton: list um any comments on the items of the follow-up action list i believe the press release has now

[0:07:06] Trustee Middleton: now being issued i believe that was issued that on on friday so thank you everyone for that work

[0:07:13] Trustee Middleton: that looked really good um okay so i think that that now takes us to our um our business items

[0:07:23] Trustee Middleton: item number four and what i'd like to do is just by way of reintroduction i think pretty well

[0:07:30] Trustee Middleton: everybody met everybody but of course just the one time so it won't hurt for us to um

[0:07:38] Trustee Middleton: for us to reintroduce ourselves.

[0:07:42] Trustee Middleton: Oh, I've just realized as I'm looking here,

[0:07:46] Trustee Middleton: I think I saw a text come in.

[0:07:48] Trustee Middleton: I'm not sure we voted.

[0:07:50] Trustee Middleton: I just assume we all agreed.

[0:07:52] Trustee Middleton: I'm not sure we voted to adopt the minutes.

[0:07:54] Trustee Middleton: Can we just step back a quick second

[0:07:56] Trustee Middleton: and show of hands on the adoption of the minutes?

[0:08:01] Trustee Middleton: Okay, I see that as a unanimous.

[0:08:03] Trustee Middleton: Sorry about that.

[0:08:04] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:08:07] Trustee Middleton: and so it's a it's a bit disorderly how the screen works in order to introduce everybody

[0:08:13] Trustee Middleton: but I think what we'll do is we'll start with with the trustees and I'll just call out as I

[0:08:19] Trustee Middleton: see you on my screen which is in sort of probably a bit of a random order and then we'll introduce

[0:08:24] Trustee Middleton: our consulting team again just briefly just so we can re-familiarize with name ourselves with

[0:08:30] Trustee Middleton: names and faces so uh i'm lee middleton i'm the elected trustee on saterna island thank you

[0:08:35] Trustee Middleton: everyone for participating and i'll now our our first uh um member who i i you probably

[0:08:43] Trustee Middleton: introduced yourself trustee morrison but if you could just do so formally in the public meeting

[0:08:47] Trustee Middleton: that would be great

[0:08:48] Trustee Morrison: i'm deb morrison i'm the trustee for north pender island one of the

[0:08:53] Trustee Morrison: trustees for north pender island and the chair of the trust programs committee and grateful to live

[0:08:59] Trustee Morrison: and work on wasanish territory thank you thank

[0:09:02] Trustee Middleton: you and trustee langerice if i could ask you to

[0:09:05] Trustee Middleton: introduce yourself

[0:09:06] Voice 2: yeah yeah case long arise trustee for gabriel island traditional territory

[0:09:10] Voice 2: of the sunemo first nation and on the trust programs committee and regional planning

[0:09:17] Voice 2: committee and this committee yes thank

[0:09:19] Trustee Middleton: you and it is in fact i had forgotten to mention is also the

[0:09:24] Trustee Middleton: the vice chair of this committee.

[0:09:25] Trustee Middleton: So thank you for that.

[0:09:27] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Critchley, please.

[0:09:32] Trustee Critchley: Yes, David Critchley, Denman Island.

[0:09:36] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:09:38] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Brent.

[0:09:41] Trustee Middleton: Yes,

[0:09:41] Voice 10: I'm Paul Brent,

[0:09:42] Voice 10: the NEA plus ultra trustee of Saturna Island.

[0:09:47] Of course.

[0:09:49] Trustee Middleton: And Trustee Cahill, please.

[0:09:52] Voice 9: Yes, good afternoon.

[0:09:53] Voice 9: Michael Cahill, Trustee Bowen Island

[0:09:56] Voice 9: and also Municipal Council of the Bowen Island.

[0:10:00] Voice 9: Thank you very much.

[0:10:06] Trustee Middleton: Chair Lockham, you introduced yourself already,

[0:10:09] Trustee Middleton: but I'll give the opportunity here if you don't mind

[0:10:11] Trustee Middleton: to introduce yourself again.

[0:10:13] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you very much for anybody that came late.

[0:10:16] Trustee Luckham: Peter Lockham, elected on Thetis Island,

[0:10:19] Trustee Luckham: Trustee and Chair of Islands Trust Council,

[0:10:23] Trustee Luckham: amongst other things.

[0:10:24] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[0:10:25] Trustee Luckham: and

[0:10:26] Trustee Middleton: i i think we're missing uh trustee steve wright who is from uh trustee of south pender

[0:10:31] Trustee Middleton: and ben mcconkey i know sent regrets he's uh north pender trustee uh am i missing anybody else

[0:10:39] Trustee Middleton: i don't yes go ahead any other trustees that i miss i think we're all here barring those two

[0:10:48] Trustee Middleton: and so what i'll do now is turn over to will do staff introductions and might have

[0:10:53] Trustee Middleton: I'd ask our CEO, Mr. Russ Hudson-Piller, to please introduce himself.

[0:10:58] Voice 3: Good afternoon.

[0:10:59] Trustee Middleton: Russ Hudson-Piller, Chief Administrative Officer with the Islands Trust.

[0:11:02] Trustee Middleton: And we have our able administrative support with Laurie Foster.

[0:11:08] Trustee Middleton: Hello there.

[0:11:09] Trustee Middleton: If you could introduce yourself, that would be great.

[0:11:12] Voice 1: Yeah, Laurie Foster, Executive Coordinator and Recorder of this meeting.

[0:11:17] Trustee Middleton: Excellent.

[0:11:17] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[0:11:18] Trustee Middleton: And so now I'll turn to our consulting team.

[0:11:21] Trustee Middleton: And I think maybe what I'll do, Charles, is let you just emcee the group, and I'll turn this over to you and ask you to introduce yourself and your colleagues, please.

[0:11:32] Voice 6: Hi, I'm Charles Kelly. I'm the project manager with Great Northern Management Consultants.

[0:11:40] Voice 6: And I'm going to start off by introducing our subject matter experts here.

[0:11:45] Voice 6: Our governance expert is Mary Antoinette Flumian. You want to just say a few words, Emma?

[0:11:52] Voice 12: Hi there. It's a pleasure to be here and it's a pleasure to see most of you again from our last meeting. Look forward to it all.

[0:11:59] Voice 6: And Mary Antoinette goes by MF, so you don't have to struggle with that many consonants.

[0:12:06] Voice 6: And James Roach, who's our advocacy expert. James?

[0:12:12] Voice 14: Hello. I'm working on advocacy, strategic planning and helping out on governance with MF.

[0:12:19] Voice 14: I have a background in all those fields. I'm speaking to you from Ottawa, the unceded lands

[0:12:25] Voice 14: of the Algonquin, and I'm glad to be here.

[0:12:28] Voice 6: And Eric Vance, our subject matter expert

[0:12:32] Voice 6: on land use planning. Eric?

[0:12:34] Voice 8: Good afternoon all. Yes, I'm a land use planner, economist,

[0:12:40] Voice 8: and management consultant, and I'm based in Maple Ridge, which is the traditional territory

[0:12:45] Voice 8: territory of the Catesy people.

[0:12:49] Voice 6: So I'll pass this back to Lee. This is your consulting team.

[0:12:54] Trustee Middleton: Great. Thank you for joining us and thanks for being here at this meeting. And so

[0:12:58] Trustee Middleton: without further ado, I think we can move to our business items.

[0:13:03] Trustee Middleton: Turn the screen here. And so really, I think what I'll do, Charles, if this is all right

[0:13:13] Trustee Middleton: to you for you i will just um up to item 4.4 where we actually start to talk about the

[0:13:21] Trustee Middleton: meeting schedule i think is all the the first three items are 100 your topics perhaps i could

[0:13:28] Trustee Middleton: just turn it over to you to work your way through those three items until we reach 4.4 when i'll

[0:13:33] Trustee Middleton: resume um running the meeting but i'll leave it to you to run through those first three items with

[0:13:41] Trustee Middleton: including 4.3.1 which is your email memo. Is that all right? That's fine Lee. Okay thank you.

[0:13:48] Voice 6: Okay thanks Lee and it's a pleasure meeting with the select committee members.

[0:13:55] Voice 6: When we at our last meeting you know we were somewhat surprised that many of the members of

[0:14:00] Voice 6: the select committee hadn't received a copy of our proposal and so you know subsequent to the meeting

[0:14:08] Voice 6: Russ and Laurie forward a copy of the full proposal so because some of the members hadn't

[0:14:16] Voice 6: had a chance to look at it and they may want to have some questions about you know some of the

[0:14:22] Voice 6: assumptions behind the proposal and who's doing what where why and so I'd like to open it up

[0:14:30] Voice 6: to you know to the trustees if anybody wanted to comment on the proposal itself which is really

[0:14:36] Voice 6: the foundation piece for the work that we've undertaken. We're currently still in the desk

[0:14:44] Voice 6: research phase and that's continuing as we get to the timeline issue, but we're deeply engaged in

[0:14:55] Voice 6: that uh we've also had some uh uh subsequent to the last meeting you know uh you know russ and

[0:15:03] Voice 6: laurie have made uh have met a lot of our information requirements and we now have access

[0:15:09] Voice 6: to documents through a through a separate site so we've been going through these in a diligent

[0:15:14] Voice 6: fashion uh in addition to that uh you know this uh last week we had two meetings with russ and the

[0:15:20] Voice 6: the team you know discussing uh strategic planning and priority issues uh and the work of the um of

[0:15:28] Voice 6: the uh the officials at the um at the island trust so you know there's been a lot of activity

[0:15:33] Voice 6: since our last meeting and uh i'd like to first open it up the the uh up the discussion to

[0:15:40] Voice 6: trustees who may have some questions about the uh the proposal itself so um over anybody wants

[0:15:48] Voice 6: wants to comment uh either myself or one of the subject matter experts in that specific area

[0:15:53] Voice 6: you can respond to your comments i

[0:15:59] Trustee Middleton: can direct traffic for you there charles and i see trustee

[0:16:03] Trustee Middleton: brent has his hand up

[0:16:05] Voice 10: so i i do agree with that the one thing i think surveys find you find out

[0:16:11] Voice 10: on surveys particularly ones that where you go out and ask people where people aren't being asked to

[0:16:16] Voice 10: comment is that the majority of residents uh in the in the islands or property owners have no idea

[0:16:23] Voice 10: what the islands trust is or what they do so you waste a lot of time in in in going about a survey

[0:16:30] Voice 10: in that fashion but it's something that you know should be um acknowledged or maybe even tested a

[0:16:37] Voice 10: little bit uh just to understand how few people truly understand about the trust and those that

[0:16:44] Voice 10: realize its existence are often very confused as to what it does. But in terms of your review,

[0:16:52] Voice 10: I think I like the manner in which you're going ahead and the fact that you're not

[0:16:59] Voice 10: doing a survey. Because I think surveys have, particularly depending upon the questions and

[0:17:07] Voice 10: particularly depending upon how the answers are interpreted, can be very dangerous. So I think

[0:17:12] Voice 10: I think going on a targeted but deep dive

[0:17:14] Voice 10: is a really good way to go and I support it.

[0:17:17] Voice 10: Thanks.

[0:17:20] Voice 6: There'll be further discussion of that

[0:17:22] Voice 6: when we get to item 4.3.

[0:17:25] Voice 6: But anyway, and thank you for that, Paul.

[0:17:29] Voice 6: Any other business on the proposal or questions

[0:17:32] Voice 6: about what we're doing and how we're going about it?

[0:17:36] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Luck, I might just hand up.

[0:17:39] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much, Chair Middleton.

[0:17:41] Trustee Luckham: Well, I want to thank everyone on the team there, still struggling to remember each of

[0:17:50] Trustee Luckham: your names, but Charles, thank you for pulling the proposal together, and I'm really glad

[0:17:58] Trustee Luckham: to have seen it.

[0:17:59] Trustee Luckham: And certainly my impressions that I had last, when you introduced yourselves, is certainly

[0:18:06] Trustee Luckham: impressed with the skills that you managed to bring to the table to assist us in this

[0:18:09] Trustee Luckham: important matter. And I didn't actually come prepared with questions, but indeed what I read

[0:18:16] Trustee Luckham: continued to reinforce my initial impressions, and I very much look forward to chatting with each of

[0:18:22] Trustee Luckham: you. And I think that what's apparent is your early decision here, which we're going to talk

[0:18:29] Trustee Luckham: about in 4.3, is certainly a tribute to you grasping elements of the picture that may not

[0:18:38] Trustee Luckham: have necessarily been apparent so um thank you very much that's all for me thank you

[0:18:43] Trustee Middleton: and um there is a comment from uh trustee morrison please i see your hand up

[0:18:50] Trustee Morrison: thank you um so i had questions and i'm not sure if this is now or in 4.3 but i had questions about

[0:18:57] Trustee Morrison: the um your methodology so i'm looking at the proposal sorry it's just flipping around while

[0:19:04] Trustee Morrison: people were talking um I'm on page 20 of our package page 13 of your proposal um where it

[0:19:12] Trustee Morrison: says approach and um I was curious about um actually I'm on page 14 where it talks about

[0:19:19] Trustee Morrison: the interviews um I'm really curious about how uh it says upwards of 40 interviews will be required

[0:19:31] Trustee Morrison: for the project so are you planning to interview all of the trustees okay that's helpful to know

[0:19:40] Trustee Morrison: and then um because my concern would be like if you're not in if you're not interviewing all of

[0:19:47] Trustee Morrison: them then how are you choosing which ones so that would obviously be a challenge so that's helpful

[0:19:52] Trustee Morrison: to know um so that's good and then it says key first nations and staff of the ministry of

[0:19:57] Trustee Morrison: municipal affairs. Can you say a little bit more about that?

[0:20:02] Voice 6: Well, we've had some discussions

[0:20:04] Voice 6: already with Russ about who his connections are. Also, as a result of the relationships of the

[0:20:14] Voice 6: various regional councils that fit within the mandate of what Eric's doing with respect to

[0:20:20] Voice 6: land use planning and decision making with the regional council. So, you know, we

[0:20:24] Voice 6: will, you know,

[0:20:25] Voice 6: we'll eric will be making a decision on which of those councils and where and whom at the councils

[0:20:33] Voice 6: he'd be interviewing

[0:20:34] Trustee Critchley: at

[0:20:35] Voice 6: a later date at another meeting we will review the the targets or the

[0:20:44] Voice 6: people we select you know for interviews before we do them with the select committee

[0:20:49] Voice 6: which is you know our intention to go through that and seek advice and we want to also have

[0:20:55] Voice 6: you know even though you know there's a lot of interviews to be done here but

[0:21:00] Voice 6: uh uh you know

[0:21:02] Voice 6: we also want to you know take a look at people that are you know that work on the islands or

[0:21:06] Voice 6: or something other than just uh public officials

[0:21:09] Voice 3: but

[0:21:10] Voice 6: you know some selective people that have

[0:21:12] Voice 6: you know a real are real stakeholders in the future of decision making associated with the

[0:21:17] Voice 6: island and we'll be seeking the advice of uh of this of this committee uh uh in that endeavor

[0:21:25] Trustee Morrison: That's great, because it would be great in some ways to have folks like, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think, Peter, but the Gulf Island Alliance, like somebody from there seems like a logical stakeholder for feedback on, you know, as a sort of critical friend of the trust.

[0:21:43] Trustee Morrison: I think that would be a great, great person, somebody in there to interview.

[0:21:48] Trustee Morrison: we

[0:21:49] Voice 6: don't really know all these people yet so you know this is why you know the advice of the select

[0:21:55] Voice 6: committee was would is certainly helpful right

[0:21:58] Trustee Morrison: thank you any

[0:22:02] Trustee Middleton: anything further trustee morrison

[0:22:04] Trustee Middleton: any follow-ups okay thank you i see trustee kale please charles

[0:22:09] Voice 9: i'm really pleased that you're

[0:22:11] Voice 9: going to be conducting these interviews um roughly when you're speaking to to us how long do you think

[0:22:19] Voice 9: the interview will take place? Well,

[0:22:22] Voice 6: some may be longer than others. No interview should go over

[0:22:27] Voice 6: an hour, but 20 to 40 minutes, depending on the questions we get covered. And some of them will

[0:22:34] Voice 6: be a little more selective because of the area of their specialty or their expertise. And in

[0:22:42] Voice 6: addition to that, the particular subject matter expert in that area may be looking for different

[0:22:49] Voice 6: things and it may take a little bit more time than you know then with somebody who isn't quite as

[0:22:53] Voice 6: engaged in either governance or in some other element of activity so they'll be weighted to

[0:22:58] Voice 6: some extent oh

[0:23:00] Voice 9: no thank you for allowing that amount of time because in in from the very

[0:23:05] Voice 9: beginning the opportunity for individual trustees to address you as a group was probably one of the

[0:23:13] Voice 9: the most important aspects of this review and I'm glad it's going to be given sufficient time and

[0:23:19] Voice 9: allow for sufficient depth of conversation. So thank you for that.

[0:23:24] Voice 6: What we're foreseeing is

[0:23:26] Voice 6: probably two people on an interview, you know, and our mutual experience here is you get more

[0:23:31] Voice 6: out of two persons, you know,

[0:23:32] Voice 6: in the interview process rather than one. So there'll be a subject

[0:23:36] Voice 6: matter expert and one other, you know, associated with the calls, you know, because when you're

[0:23:42] Voice 6: you're asking questions and you're listening, you know, people listen and pick up different things.

[0:23:47] Voice 6: So you're always better to have two, you know, as a part of when you're doing interview processes

[0:23:53] Voice 6: like this.

[0:23:59] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Critchley, please.

[0:24:03] Trustee Critchley: Thank you. When you're speaking of stakeholders that you

[0:24:07] Trustee Critchley: would specifically go out and seek, just thinking about that off the top, I'm thinking in terms of

[0:24:15] Trustee Critchley: people who have regular interactions with the trust, in my experience, are people who are

[0:24:21] Trustee Critchley: interested in conservation topics. So conservancies or marine stewardship groups, of which there are

[0:24:29] Trustee Critchley: two on Denman Island. Affordable housing groups, of which there are two on Denman Island. And I

[0:24:38] Trustee Critchley: I suppose to the development so-called community,

[0:24:43] Trustee Critchley: which we primarily have one person on Denman Island

[0:24:46] Trustee Critchley: who seems adept at shepherding applications

[0:24:52] Trustee Critchley: for subdivision and rezoning through the trust.

[0:24:55] Trustee Critchley: Are there other sort of groups of people

[0:24:58] Trustee Critchley: that you would be thinking of in those terms?

[0:25:01] Trustee Critchley: Because I know that people who are aware of this review

[0:25:06] Trustee Critchley: view are concerned they should have their input yeah

[0:25:09] Voice 6: well we can't bring it we're not going to

[0:25:12] Voice 6: strike a hundred percent of everybody who thinks they should have a point of view in the island

[0:25:16] Voice 6: you know that would be 26 000 people to my reckoning uh but i think what we'll we'll do

[0:25:21] Voice 6: is is have a have a careful sampling and uh i think the the areas you identified you know would

[0:25:28] Voice 6: be a part of this uh selectively you know from different islands and and then some established

[0:25:33] Voice 6: businesses you know that are that are stakeholders and have been providing you know services on the

[0:25:39] Voice 6: islands for many years so I think that's you know would cover some of it all

[0:25:45] Trustee Critchley: right there's one other

[0:25:46] Trustee Critchley: thing I want to mention or draw to your attention that in terms of getting input from the public

[0:25:52] Trustee Critchley: the trust does have a subscription service via its website to people who sign up to get news

[0:26:03] Trustee Critchley: from the trust whenever there's a press release or notice notification of meetings and various

[0:26:09] Trustee Critchley: things that are ongoing so those subscribers to that would be a rather selected self-selected

[0:26:18] Trustee Critchley: subset of residents with you know there'd be probably certain biases attached to that wouldn't

[0:26:24] Trustee Critchley: be necessarily a representative sample of 26 000 people but i just want to make you aware that that

[0:26:29] Trustee Critchley: that listing is available and it would be something pretty simple to shoot out an email

[0:26:38] Trustee Critchley: survey to that subset without going out to 26,000 people. I'll just put that out for your

[0:26:45] Trustee Critchley: consideration.

[0:26:46] Voice 6: Well, thank you. We'll take a look at it. I don't know anything about that yet. So

[0:26:50] Voice 6: I'm sure Russ and his staff will have some views about that as well. So we'll take a look.

[0:26:57] Voice 2: my hand is not working for some reason okay

[0:27:02] Trustee Middleton: please please go

[0:27:03] Voice 2: ahead and raise hand yeah i

[0:27:05] Voice 2: just wanted to come i appreciate the the layout of the the approach in this survey as as well as

[0:27:12] Voice 2: the whole methodology one of the things i thought of too was in terms of other parties are previous

[0:27:19] Voice 2: trustees from different time eras you know what the trustee from the time of the 70s the 80s and

[0:27:26] Voice 2: 9th even just a couple to get a span of the perspectives from that time to now and it gives

[0:27:32] Voice 2: you more of a historical perspective so I think that may be one way to go as well good

[0:27:40] Voice 6: that's an

[0:27:41] Voice 6: interesting idea thank you for that councillor and

[0:27:47] Trustee Middleton: I think chair or trustee in this case

[0:27:52] Trustee Middleton: look your hand is the next up I believe yeah

[0:27:56] Trustee Luckham: just a bit of a follow-up kind of a question

[0:27:59] Trustee Luckham: listening to the discussion, it's certainly intriguing when you think about all of the

[0:28:05] Trustee Luckham: elements necessary to reflect upon to get a full picture. And I presume that as the interviews with

[0:28:18] Trustee Luckham: trustees move along, it will become apparent there are other stakeholders that you may want

[0:28:27] Trustee Luckham: to reach out to as that progresses and hopefully you'll have that flexibility. I realize absolutely

[0:28:35] Trustee Luckham: as was clearly messaged in our first discussion together that the resources are limited and so

[0:28:42] Trustee Luckham: your ability to actually engage with many is restricted so you have to be careful about that.

[0:28:49] Trustee Luckham: But the one thing that strikes me in when we're looking at stakeholders and the language that I've

[0:28:55] Trustee Luckham: just heard is finding people that are significant, for want of a better word, movers and shakers

[0:29:02] Trustee Luckham: in the communities.

[0:29:03] Trustee Luckham: And clearly with all the islands and the trust areas, we all think of ourselves as rural,

[0:29:10] Trustee Luckham: but some islands and communities are more rural than others.

[0:29:14] Trustee Luckham: And based upon population and economic necessity and providing for the needs of community members.

[0:29:22] Trustee Luckham: And in some cases, the size of the island is actually not an indicative factor.

[0:29:28] Trustee Luckham: But I note that another trustee, and not from my island, said to me the other day, oh, well,

[0:29:35] Trustee Luckham: gosh, there's nothing going on here.

[0:29:38] Trustee Luckham: But in that nothingness, there's significant elements associated with how we govern and

[0:29:45] Trustee Luckham: how we support and how we assist those communities in the preservation and protection mandate.

[0:29:52] Trustee Luckham: And so just reflecting on that, I'm mostly offering my thoughts as we're moving along

[0:29:58] Trustee Luckham: about the.

[0:30:00] Trustee Luckham: the broad spectrum and potential depth of some of the conversations in order to get a

[0:30:06] Trustee Luckham: grasp of some of the subtleties. And certainly you folks are not green into the political

[0:30:14] Trustee Luckham: climate and so certainly you'll hear lots of opinion and obviously you will sort that out

[0:30:20] Trustee Luckham: accordingly. So thank you for your patience and the work that you're doing.

[0:30:26] Voice 6: Jim or MF,

[0:30:28] Voice 6: Do you want to comment on some of these questions?

[0:30:32] Voice 12: Well, yes, none of us are green.

[0:30:35] Voice 12: And what we would hope to do is bring forward

[0:30:38] Voice 12: to this committee both the questionnaire that we will use,

[0:30:42] Voice 12: probably somewhere between about 12 and 15 questions.

[0:30:45] Voice 12: We'll probably schedule all the interviews for an hour,

[0:30:48] Voice 12: whether we need the time or not.

[0:30:52] Voice 12: Everything that's said to us will be said in confidence,

[0:30:54] Voice 12: except for the broad strokes,

[0:30:56] Voice 12: so that we can elicit the best opinions possible

[0:31:00] Voice 12: from all the folks that we're talking to.

[0:31:02] Voice 12: And we will also bring forward to the committee

[0:31:05] Voice 12: a list of all those we intend to interview,

[0:31:07] Voice 12: which will be higher than 40 now,

[0:31:10] Voice 12: just because of the discussions

[0:31:11] Voice 12: that we're gonna have on advocacy in a few moments.

[0:31:16] Voice 12: And we'll try to strike a balance

[0:31:18] Voice 12: between expert knowledge in some of these fields

[0:31:21] Voice 12: and a knowledge of how things are working

[0:31:26] Voice 12: or how things would be improved

[0:31:27] Voice 12: or how things used to work

[0:31:29] Voice 12: and whatever the case may be.

[0:31:32] Voice 12: We will run all this past you.

[0:31:35] Voice 12: We are the subject matter experts,

[0:31:37] Voice 12: but we will run it all past you

[0:31:39] Voice 12: for a good sense of

[0:31:40] Voice 12: have we caught the right tenor and tone of it all?

[0:31:45] Voice 12: And these are questions we must ask

[0:31:48] Voice 12: in order to get and expose

[0:31:50] Voice 12: the kinds of questions that you've asked us to deal with?

[0:31:53] Voice 12: And are there others that we need to add

[0:31:56] Voice 12: or deal with in a different fashion

[0:31:59] Voice 12: so that we capture the scope and breadth

[0:32:01] Voice 12: of the area you're governing

[0:32:03] Voice 12: and the views of the people who are being governed?

[0:32:07] Voice 14: I'll add just two comments to MFs

[0:32:09] Voice 14: and one is to reinforce your last comment.

[0:32:12] Voice 14: It's a living list and Councillor Luckman is right.

[0:32:15] Voice 14: As we go along, names can be added to it

[0:32:18] Voice 14: for reasons that are discovered

[0:32:20] Voice 14: it at different points in time. So it's flexible in that sense. And the point is that there may be

[0:32:28] Voice 14: more than two people on the call. I have a natural curiosity to hear as many of the conversations as

[0:32:35] Voice 14: possible. And I can't see how it can do anything but benefit our subsequent deliberations. And I

[0:32:42] Voice 14: know that some of my colleagues do as well. So I think two might be the minimum on the call,

[0:32:47] Voice 14: but we'll all be interested in if not participating uh actively getting debriefed on every one of them

[0:32:58] Trustee Morrison: lee if i can ask just one last question yeah

[0:33:02] Trustee Middleton: sorry i muted myself there yeah please go ahead trustee

[0:33:04] Trustee Middleton: morrison thank

[0:33:05] Trustee Morrison: you um um marianne and just call

[0:33:11] Voice 12: me ms okay

[0:33:12] Trustee Morrison: ms okay thank you um ms i i thank you

[0:33:16] Trustee Morrison: for bringing that up because that was the other question that i had in my head was about the

[0:33:20] Trustee Morrison: the interview protocol. So I am super interested in seeing the interview protocol and in particular

[0:33:27] Trustee Morrison: seeing how it maps to the different goals that we set out in the request for proposal just to

[0:33:33] Trustee Morrison: see how those questions are going to get mapped back to the things that we want to know about

[0:33:38] Trustee Morrison: the trust. So I'm really looking forward to seeing the

[0:33:39] Voice 12: things that you want to know and some of the

[0:33:41] Voice 12: things you may want to know as well. And you've seen the representations we made in our proposal

[0:33:49] Voice 12: about the things that matter the most in terms of guaranteeing legitimacy in an organization so

[0:33:53] Voice 12: we're very mindful of that and uh as i said we'll be back with that so that you can have a look at

[0:34:00] Voice 12: it and uh certainly we'll have discussions with russ and the staff as well uh in our attempt to

[0:34:07] Voice 12: leave no stone unturned to get it right and then at the end of the day uh no two will be alike i'm

[0:34:13] Voice 12: sure in the interview process because everybody will bring their own personality and their own

[0:34:17] Voice 12: views to it and our experiences and uh and as we discuss uh um how this will all be done we'll be

[0:34:25] Voice 12: back to you with our findings sooner than later about how it all comes together and what we read

[0:34:32] Voice 12: into it and then you'll have another chance to express your views because at the end of the day

[0:34:37] Voice 12: the thing about governance it's got to be rooted in the environment in which it can have the most

[0:34:41] Voice 12: impact, right? So

[0:34:43] Voice 12: we'll be mindful of that and we'll be mindful of the culture of the environment

[0:34:49] Voice 12: in which you're operating and how things have to be expressed and rooted in that environment for

[0:34:57] Voice 12: this to be successful.

[0:34:58] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, thanks for that.

[0:35:05] Voice 6: Well, if there are no further questions about the,

[0:35:08] Voice 6: broadly about the proposal,

[0:35:13] Voice 6: you maybe should move on to the discussion

[0:35:16] Voice 6: of the revised

[0:35:20] Voice 6: work plan timetable. This follows from

[0:35:24] Voice 6: the discussion from the first meeting we had

[0:35:27] Voice 6: and the decision of the Trust Committee to move

[0:35:32] Voice 6: these timetables out, which makes

[0:35:36] Voice 6: you know for us I think a lot more sense and essentially you've got you have a

[0:35:41] Voice 6: draft of the proposed new timetable that the we're seeing this document review it

[0:35:47] Voice 6: took a couple of weeks you know to get started here until we had enough we had

[0:35:52] Voice 6: the documents provided to us but you know we think that the document review

[0:35:56] Voice 6: you know should wrap up at the June the 30th and and I think this is important

[0:36:05] Voice 6: important to keep in mind when we schedule the next meeting of the Select Committee with

[0:36:10] Voice 6: respect to reviewing the tools that we would use and methodologies for the interview process.

[0:36:21] Voice 6: And then we would conduct the interviews. We're looking at probably starting them sometime

[0:36:28] Voice 6: time in you know late July or sometime in if we can and move them through to the end of September

[0:36:36] Voice 6: they may take a little bit longer given how many more interviews we're doing but we'll keep you

[0:36:41] Voice 6: posted on what we do there we're proposing the draft recommendations you know before the end of

[0:36:48] Voice 6: the year and that's would give the the committee time to to reflect on you know what we're proposing

[0:36:55] Voice 6: and again, following discussions with the select committee

[0:37:01] Voice 6: after their input, you know, we would then prepare

[0:37:03] Voice 6: the final report by the middle of February.

[0:37:08] Voice 6: And from there, leave it to you to determine, you know,

[0:37:12] Voice 6: when you would wish us to present the report to the,

[0:37:16] Voice 6: you know, the Island Trust Committee.

[0:37:18] Voice 6: So again, we've, this is a follow-up from the last meeting.

[0:37:21] Voice 6: And so we wanted to document this and for a decision

[0:37:25] Voice 6: of the Select Committee.

[0:37:29] Voice 6: Now, I don't know if you want to handle that as a motion

[0:37:31] Voice 6: or you want to do it at the end, Lee?

[0:37:35] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, we have the end date already captured in a motion.

[0:37:39] Trustee Middleton: So I think really the only, perhaps the only date

[0:37:42] Trustee Middleton: we do need to capture in a motion here

[0:37:44] Trustee Middleton: would be the presentation of the final report

[0:37:47] Trustee Middleton: to Trust Council, which I think of necessity

[0:37:52] Trustee Middleton: can really only be the March meeting,

[0:37:54] Trustee Middleton: just given the overall timing here.

[0:37:58] Trustee Middleton: um whether or not we could just um make that change and then um by motion adopt the

[0:38:07] Trustee Middleton: uh the work plan timeline um i'm sure i'm sure we can just do that but any discussion i guess

[0:38:17] Trustee Middleton: just before we uh firm this up by a motion and in terms of the timing or questions from anyone

[0:38:24] Trustee Middleton: one yeah

[0:38:27] Trustee Morrison: i had a sorry i'm full of questions today this is what happens when i miss a meeting

[0:38:33] Trustee Morrison: um so um i had questions just about and maybe these are for the committee as opposed to for

[0:38:42] Trustee Morrison: the consultants but like in terms of the timeline what does this mean for how we as a committee

[0:38:50] Trustee Morrison: think or that trust council will do with this information like because we're going to get

[0:38:57] Trustee Morrison: close to the end of our term and so I don't know if this is for Russ or for Peter like for

[0:39:02] Trustee Morrison: for more of what like what do we think can be done with the outcomes from the report it would be for

[0:39:08] Trustee Morrison: the next trust council likely given the timeline of what we're hitting now and so if I could just

[0:39:12] Trustee Morrison: have some feedback on that because I really want to understand how that motivates and works toward

[0:39:16] Trustee Morrison: whatever changes are recommended if there are any yeah

[0:39:22] Trustee Middleton: that's a very good question because that does

[0:39:24] Trustee Middleton: does encapsulate the conversation that we had at the meeting, I think, are just a bit of history.

[0:39:31] Trustee Middleton: The original timeframe was adopted with the perhaps not very thoroughly thought through

[0:39:40] Trustee Middleton: concept that we would actually be able to receive a final report in time to adjust the following

[0:39:48] Trustee Middleton: year's budget but that you know when you get into the details that both is a miss

[0:39:56] Trustee Middleton: the the budget cycle is sort of largely baked in by that point we've reviewed the draft budget in

[0:40:01] Trustee Middleton: december and what we think is that some of these recommendations are likely not just items where

[0:40:08] Trustee Middleton: you would just a simple budget line item and voila they are so they're they're perhaps would

[0:40:13] Trustee Middleton: require sort of deeper thinking perhaps um more structural adjustment and not something that

[0:40:18] Trustee Middleton: It would just happen overnight.

[0:40:20] Trustee Middleton: And to that end, we realized that therefore the deadline of adjusting or the deadline of trying to receive the report to be able to implement through the vote on the budget in March was really false.

[0:40:32] Trustee Middleton: And so the contract had luckily been signed to the end of more or less the end of the fiscal year.

[0:40:39] Trustee Middleton: And so we had the space in the legal wording of the contract.

[0:40:43] Trustee Middleton: And so to that end, we extended.

[0:40:44] Trustee Middleton: it and then to your point well what then does that mean will come of these items uh i i understand

[0:40:51] Trustee Middleton: our consultants may recommend what some next steps might be it might be that the the recommendations

[0:40:57] Trustee Middleton: are of a nature that it would really require perhaps a public consultation it may not i don't

[0:41:03] Trustee Middleton: know like that's foreshadowing something that we we can't speak to yet um it may be that what is

[0:41:10] Trustee Middleton: comes out of the meeting becomes a slate of ideas that that people decide to run on in the next

[0:41:19] Trustee Middleton: election which is

[0:41:21] Trustee Middleton: October 2022 so but I think in general you're right and and Russ and Peter if

[0:41:27] Trustee Middleton: you want to chime in of course you're right that unless there's some very specific and concrete

[0:41:33] Trustee Middleton: and easily adjusted sort of obvious thing that none of us have seen that can be quickly adjusted

[0:41:37] Trustee Middleton: The idea would be that there's not an expectation that we immediately go about and enact any suggestions made in our consultant's report prior to the end of the term, because they'd really be five months left, six months left to the end of the term, or functionally even last, really.

[0:41:58] Trustee Middleton: So that was a conversation we had last time.

[0:42:02] Trustee Middleton: I know if maybe, Trustee Critchley, you want to chime in before I turn to our CEO or chair?

[0:42:10] Trustee Critchley: Yeah, thank you.

[0:42:11] Trustee Critchley: A couple of points.

[0:42:13] Trustee Critchley: First of all, just looking at the proposed timeframe, I have no issues with it.

[0:42:17] Trustee Critchley: I think you know best, the consultants know best about their business and what's possible,

[0:42:24] Trustee Critchley: and it's all seemed reasonable to me.

[0:42:26] Trustee Critchley: As far as looking at Trust Council and how that is going to work, I think we might think outside the box on that in terms of it just being a regular addition of the quarterly, the usual quarterly meetings.

[0:42:47] Trustee Critchley: I mean, it is possible to convene a special meeting for this, and this is certainly going to be an extraordinary business.

[0:42:52] Trustee Critchley: And I think would either require an extra day of Trust Council or a separate meeting.

[0:42:59] Trustee Critchley: So I just throw that out.

[0:43:01] Trustee Critchley: I don't expect any immediate resolution or response on that.

[0:43:06] Trustee Critchley: But one thing that occurs to me is that it is very convenient to have extra special meetings of trust counsel via Zoom because they can be fairly conveniently organized and we don't have the enormous travel expenses associated with them.

[0:43:25] Trustee Critchley: Now, our ability to hold Zoom meetings will probably end in the not too distant future with any good luck because it's hinged to the pandemic.

[0:43:36] Trustee Critchley: We don't have, as I understand it, the ability in ordinary terms to conduct our business by Zoom.

[0:43:45] Trustee Critchley: So if that is correct, is there any move afoot to seek legislative or regulatory amendment to permit us to continue to have Zoom meetings even outside of a pandemic situation?

[0:44:05] Trustee Critchley: And I'd be posing that question to Chair Luckham and CAO Hudson-Pillar. Thank you.

[0:44:17] Trustee Middleton: So, which of you orange-shirted gentlemen would care to take that on?

[0:44:23] Voice 13: I can start off, Chair Luckham, and then you can make it better, depending upon what I say.

[0:44:32] Voice 13: Well, good news, it's rare that I'm in this position, but I've anticipated your question,

[0:44:36] Voice 13: Trustee Critchley and if you and your agenda your trust council agenda has ended a report around

[0:44:41] Voice 13: electronic meetings and in it is a brief description of bill 10 that has been put forward by the

[0:44:47] Voice 13: province to allow exactly what you're discussing so that is a continuance of the ability to have

[0:44:53] Voice 13: what I term as a hybrid type meeting we'll still have the a requirement to have a public gathering

[0:44:59] Voice 13: space for any official meeting of the islands trust but we can combine that with zoom or some

[0:45:05] Voice 13: some other platform. So that'll be, I think, probably a substantial conversation coming up at

[0:45:10] Voice 13: the Future Trust Council. Not the least of which reasons is it's going to cost some funds for us

[0:45:18] Voice 13: to do that. There's going to be some costs that we need to undertake if we're going to do that

[0:45:23] Voice 13: well. So that's really the answer to your first question. I think recent events over the last 15

[0:45:31] Voice 13: months have left us with the idea that things have changed and um we're going to have some

[0:45:36] Voice 13: ability to do this into the future um speaking around uh you know a lot of the what you were

[0:45:45] Voice 13: going to do with the outcomes i mean i wouldn't anticipate an outcome at this point i um and

[0:45:49] Voice 13: i think as you um cautiously and and um you know in a well thought out manner developed the rfp and

[0:45:57] Voice 13: went forward it was you know to be informed by the process and see what comes what i think

[0:46:02] Voice 13: chair middleton's going to have to do is think about when does trust council other than the

[0:46:08] Voice 13: interviews get are you comfortable leaving it till next march a year from now before trust

[0:46:14] Voice 13: council gets a really a flavor for this i.e a report appears just as it did in the agenda

[0:46:20] Voice 13: or are you going to want to somewhere on this timeline have that something sink in with

[0:46:28] Voice 13: december's meeting i'm not sure that's something that chair middleton and the rest of the select

[0:46:33] Voice 13: committee is going to have to do as they broker these considerations to trust council as a whole

[0:46:38] Voice 13: many trustees won't be really following this other than the specific interview so

[0:46:42] Voice 13: i leave that to you to um to figure out the best way forward there and what's likely going to

[0:46:50] Voice 13: to happen is you'll get the the results they will appear in march and then likely whenever

[0:46:55] Voice 13: significant decisions get made there's a time of reflection um you know discussion and that usually

[0:47:01] Voice 13: would happen at the next trust council meeting so you can anticipate that um that would happen

[0:47:06] Voice 13: um likely in june so how that that starts to run into your cycle you know the the regular election

[0:47:11] Voice 13: cycle but and my last comment i think some of the questions you've asked are profound questions and

[0:47:17] Voice 13: And they're not easily solved in one meeting by saying, let's do, you know, likely some of the outcomes here won't be solved by let's just do this, let's do that.

[0:47:24] Voice 13: I think the questions you asked were of a profound nature and they would need any change, of course, would need to be well thought out, which would stretch us into the next term.

[0:47:34] Voice 13: Thanks.

[0:47:37] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. And Chair Luckom, please.

[0:47:39] Trustee Middleton: please.

[0:47:40] Trustee Luckham: Well, certainly the CAO answered eloquently the discussions we've been having

[0:47:46] Trustee Luckham: at executive committee and that he's been having with the province with respect to future meetings.

[0:47:51] Trustee Luckham: And that is indeed summarized in the package that you have received for our coming council.

[0:47:57] Trustee Luckham: Um, you know, I ponder a little bit here about the timing and the significance of it,

[0:48:06] Trustee Luckham: not only in relation to budgets and future election cycles, but also in respect of the

[0:48:13] Trustee Luckham: significant work that is underway with the delivery of local planning services and the

[0:48:20] Trustee Luckham: revision of the policy statement and reconciliation and all of these other components that indeed

[0:48:27] Trustee Luckham: the consultant has been asked to reflect upon. And that as this work advances and the report

[0:48:35] Trustee Luckham: is kind of reaching some, or at least maybe there's some conclusions and some direction and

[0:48:40] Trustee Luckham: some advice that's beginning to percolate to the top. There's two things that come to my immediate

[0:48:48] Trustee Luckham: mind is that indeed some trustees may be completely happy for any implementation of any discoveries

[0:48:55] Trustee Luckham: that are found be left to a future council. Other trustees will want to take that work on now.

[0:49:01] Trustee Luckham: now. And it's not that there may or may not be necessarily any significant expenditures

[0:49:08] Trustee Luckham: or redistribution of resources that may or may not require budget amendments. And it

[0:49:15] Trustee Luckham: may be that there are suggestions or recommendations that could be embraced in the work that is

[0:49:21] Trustee Luckham: already budgeted and um and um in in progress but i see a little bit of difficulty there with um

[0:49:29] Trustee Luckham: you know in the in broad strokes that a report is brought to council post budget and there's

[0:49:37] Trustee Luckham: some recommendations that the this council without significant without actually changing its budget

[0:49:43] Trustee Luckham: which it can do um i don't believe we've ever actually done that at a significant scale um

[0:49:51] Trustee Luckham: Mayor Mrakas, may create its own.

[0:49:54] Trustee Luckham: Mayor Mrakas, issues around that so.

[0:49:57] Trustee Luckham: Mayor Mrakas, yeah and not said, you know, certainly it's probably correct that getting a report that indicates some change in allocation of resources.

[0:50:10] Trustee Luckham: in December may very well be too late for a budget in March but certainly adopting a budget in March

[0:50:16] Trustee Luckham: is significantly more complex than making it interim adjustments so I'm just reflecting on

[0:50:22] Trustee Luckham: all of those elements about really taking advantage and implementing some of the

[0:50:30] Trustee Luckham: benefits and wisdom that is drawn out from this study so that this council can certainly

[0:50:38] Trustee Luckham: be a party to implementing early steps in improved governance, which is the intention

[0:50:46] Trustee Luckham: of this work, as well as a future council being able to pick up the work that has begun. So

[0:50:53] Trustee Luckham: I don't have any answers, and it's mostly just thinking out loud.

[0:51:02] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Trustee Morrison had your hand up first, if you want, or we could, MF, I see your

[0:51:09] Trustee Middleton: hand up. No,

[0:51:13] Voice 12: I can wait. I was just going to respond to what's on the screen.

[0:51:16] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, maybe I'll just add one more thing to that so that you can respond to all of it together.

[0:51:22] Trustee Morrison: So I hear you, Peter, and all the sort of like to-ing and fro-ing of like where does,

[0:51:29] Trustee Morrison: because we don't know what the recommendations are, it's hard to know how they'll land, right?

[0:51:34] Trustee Morrison: Right. But I think that this timeline makes sense for the work that needs to be done.

[0:51:39] Trustee Morrison: I understand the adjustment. I'm wondering about the timing of the November 30th deadline related relating to having preliminary findings coming forward to trustees.

[0:51:51] Trustee Morrison: And Russ, I can't remember what the package deadline is for the December meeting because I know the trust council package goes out.

[0:51:58] Trustee Morrison: And so I'm wondering if we can adjust that deadline in a way that allows us to put to either have maybe both to have the preliminary findings seen by the select committee and then like also included as a for information and sort of talking point at the meeting is just a, you know, we just want you to know that this is in progress.

[0:52:19] Trustee Morrison: us and here's some preliminary findings um what people think about that because it would be kind

[0:52:23] Trustee Morrison: of nice to get it into the december package just so it's not a oopsie surprise like in march and

[0:52:31] Trustee Middleton: thank you mf yes if you have comments please i

[0:52:35] Voice 12: was just going to say uh given what's on the screen

[0:52:37] Voice 12: at least my screen i'm sitting on everybody else's screen we have tried to build into the timeline

[0:52:42] Voice 12: sufficient touchback with you as a select committee and then anybody else you want to

[0:52:47] Voice 12: to send us to for a touchback,

[0:52:49] Voice 12: but we see you as the quarterbacks on this.

[0:52:52] Voice 12: So we come back to you November 30th in this proposal

[0:52:56] Voice 12: with our preliminary findings,

[0:52:57] Voice 12: which of course is holding up a mirror to say,

[0:53:00] Voice 12: we've looked at your documents, we've done the interviews,

[0:53:02] Voice 12: forget about the survey now,

[0:53:04] Voice 12: but we've conducted the interviews

[0:53:06] Voice 12: and we are getting this impression

[0:53:09] Voice 12: of where our preliminary findings have landed.

[0:53:12] Voice 12: You'll have lots of opportunity to comment on it that time.

[0:53:16] Voice 12: and we say November 30th but if you wanted to push it back a little bit to align with your

[0:53:21] Voice 12: timetables because we weren't sure of your timetables we just listened to the conversation

[0:53:26] Voice 12: last time and went and made these adjustments so preliminary findings for the first time

[0:53:30] Voice 12: end of November-ish and they'll I'm assuming they'll be extensive in terms of all the areas

[0:53:37] Voice 12: we'll have touched on from that mirror that we would hold up we may not have come to recommendations

[0:53:45] Voice 12: recommendations yet, because then we'll have to do some benchmarking as well, right? Which is

[0:53:50] Voice 12: work that will be going on in the background during this whole period of time. What's feasible,

[0:53:54] Voice 12: what's possible, what cultural perspectives have we heard about, how you operate, what you want to

[0:54:01] Voice 12: do, how you want to conduct yourselves, how you consult with the broader communities, all of those

[0:54:07] Voice 12: things have to be taken into account beyond the findings before we get to recommendations.

[0:54:11] Voice 12: recommendations. We've got recommendations there for December 31st. Again, that happens to be the

[0:54:19] Voice 12: last day of the year. But if we had to walk, you know, if that was two meetings that we would have

[0:54:24] Voice 12: discussions over, that's okay with us. And remember, we're all in one way or another used

[0:54:30] Voice 12: to working with large complex organizations. So we're fully cognizant of the fact that you've got

[0:54:36] Voice 12: all sorts of processes running in the background, the foreground for you, background for us.

[0:54:41] Voice 12: that we if we're going to hit the mark on some of the things we would align to the processes you're

[0:54:46] Voice 12: running and then it's going to be up to you to make the political judgment as to how quickly

[0:54:50] Voice 12: you might want to implement some things and clearly if the budget cycle's been set

[0:54:54] Voice 12: uh the budget cycle's been set um so we're not we're going to be mindful of not unnecessarily

[0:55:01] Voice 12: and unduly upsetting your apple cart if certain things are in process um and and mindful of your

[0:55:08] Voice 12: your election as well so by the time we get to the final report you should feel comfortable

[0:55:15] Voice 12: knowledgeable uh cognizant of other options you may have uh we may have talked and considered

[0:55:21] Voice 12: with you in terms of coming to an expert opinion as to why one or two or whatever is the best to

[0:55:29] Voice 12: land on in terms of the discourse so we've tried to build in sufficient time for you to react

[0:55:36] Voice 12: act for you to consider, for you to sort of say, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, or yeah, or explain to

[0:55:44] Voice 12: us how something might work throughout there. And if we need more touch points, well, you'll let us

[0:55:49] Voice 12: know. So I think that we've tried to do it in such a way as we practice what we preach from a

[0:55:55] Voice 12: governance perspective.

[0:56:00] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Just a comment then on the November 30th happens to be, I think

[0:56:07] Trustee Middleton: that is one of the dates me and hearing

[0:56:13] Trustee Middleton: the end of november

[0:56:14] Voice 14: can't hear you lee i

[0:56:19] Voice 12: think he's frozen

[0:56:20] Voice 12: no lee's

[0:56:21] Trustee Luckham: frozen yeah another

[0:56:23] Trustee Luckham: another great vice chair opportunity

[0:56:28] Voice 12: anyway if the dates don't align just let us know i mean they're they're some dates on the page

[0:56:33] Voice 12: that's all yeah

[0:56:34] Voice 13: may i select committee yes go uh so trust council's 30th december 1st december 2nd

[0:56:44] Trustee Morrison: okay and

[0:56:46] Voice 13: the and the agenda goes out on the 19th of

[0:56:50] Voice 12: november of

[0:56:51] Voice 13: november so that's where any paper

[0:56:54] Voice 13: and i'm not saying this is for you to and i speak to the group with the select committee here you

[0:57:01] Voice 13: need to figure this out what would you want to or not want to provide to trust council as an update

[0:57:06] Voice 13: date is it written works um and but you those are the the parameters you you you work with it and so

[0:57:16] Voice 13: having a fundamental conversation on the 30th well a wouldn't happen because we're in trust

[0:57:22] Voice 13: council that's an actual trust council day um so it should be refined a little bit to either be

[0:57:28] Voice 13: just after trust council and you'd say hey

[0:57:30] Voice 13: we're working on it or um just before and maybe you have

[0:57:35] Voice 13: Charles um or or the rest of trust council um be aware of where where things are yeah

[0:57:44] Trustee Morrison: I would love

[0:57:45] Trustee Morrison: it if it's possible to do whatever can be done to meet that earlier deadline just because I think

[0:57:50] Trustee Morrison: it's going to help smooth the pathway for at least to have some kind of like us to be able to have

[0:57:55] Trustee Morrison: some kind of reporting back we may not want to give the whole package back but like some kind

[0:57:59] Trustee Morrison: of summary of it would be helpful I think at that point so

[0:58:02] Voice 12: just to get that just so make sure I

[0:58:04] Voice 12: i understand that you would want our preliminary findings sometime before november 15th for example

[0:58:10] Voice 12: so that you can review them and determine what kind of package should go forward if it had to

[0:58:15] Voice 12: go forward in the november 19th package it gets sent to trust council that

[0:58:20] Trustee Morrison: would be really helpful

[0:58:20] Trustee Morrison: i think i know that that cuts a couple weeks but

[0:58:25] Voice 12: we hear you okay is that possible to come

[0:58:33] Voice 12: back to this committee by say the 15th yeah

[0:58:39] Trustee Luckham: so maybe i'll just chime in um you know the

[0:58:42] Trustee Luckham: The way we try to manage it by providing trust council preparation and oversight at the executive committee,

[0:58:52] Trustee Luckham: the meeting prior to council where we essentially sign off and forward all materials to council is the 17th of November.

[0:59:03] Voice 12: And so

[0:59:04] Trustee Luckham: then that then gets shipped out, as Russell said, on the 19th, which is the Friday after the Wednesday.

[0:59:10] Trustee Luckham: day and so certainly um and of course there's a deadline for the executive committee meeting as

[0:59:16] Trustee Luckham: well there's always deadlines in order to be able to get things on some agenda and so it just all

[0:59:20] Trustee Luckham: propagates back but uh that's the 12th

[0:59:24] Trustee Luckham: oh thank you very much so the 12th is kind of the magic

[0:59:28] Trustee Luckham: number it's not to say that there's not some flexibility but in order for all of the people

[0:59:34] Trustee Luckham: that are engaged in that process and do all the rest of the business that we do um having as much

[0:59:39] Trustee Luckham: much lead time as possible would be ideal. So if it's the 12th, then that means that this committee

[0:59:44] Trustee Luckham: needs to see it at least a couple of days before that. So it's certainly pushing quite early on

[0:59:51] Trustee Luckham: in November. And so I'll just say that and I'll leave that to you. You obviously have

[1:00:00] Trustee Luckham: ability to be a little bit more nimble but indeed other members of the select committee have other

[1:00:04] Trustee Luckham: commitments not only personal and work-wise but also other local trust committees and trust and

[1:00:10] Trustee Luckham: program committees and all the rest so it's sometimes i'd like to think we were more nimble

[1:00:16] Trustee Luckham: but i think as nimble as it gets is actually this committee so over to you thank

[1:00:22] Trustee Middleton: you um trustee

[1:00:23] Trustee Middleton: brent you have your hand up i

[1:00:25] Voice 10: do and i'm just wondering do we really need to i mean the reason

[1:00:28] Voice 10: The reason for this committee being is for us to review things that we then need to run it by the executive committee as well. It seems like, you know, it's kind of multiple steps going on. So I just need to, I need to understand why we would strike a select committee and, and then have it need to be reviewed by the executive committee before it goes to press council.

[1:00:51] Voice 10: Yeah, it's a little bit beyond me why we need that extra step.

[1:00:58] Voice 10: Fair

[1:01:00] Trustee Middleton: enough. CAO Hudson-Piller, would you like to respond to that?

[1:01:04] Trustee Middleton: Oh, we've got about

[1:01:05] Voice 13: 25 years of history where the Executive Committee reviews

[1:01:08] Voice 13: all matters that go before Trust Council. So our meeting procedures bylaws require that. So it's

[1:01:19] Voice 13: just regular business, nothing in particular. All committees flow through Executive Committee

[1:01:25] Voice 13: at one point as they manage the agenda and the three-day process. Thank you.

[1:01:31] Trustee Middleton: thank you for that so I guess it would maybe be back to the consultants and

[1:01:36] Trustee Middleton: just in terms of all right let's say we were to see about working with that

[1:01:41] Trustee Middleton: timeframe which I think would mean we'd be receiving sort of some preliminary

[1:01:45] Trustee Middleton: points for discussion something around November 7th 9th are we creating sort of

[1:01:52] Trustee Middleton: a lot of void subsequent to that where there's you know a lot of effort has

[1:01:57] Trustee Middleton: happened up to November and then and then we've created sort of a void of effort or does that

[1:02:03] Trustee Middleton: work and maybe I don't know if you wanted to consider it further Charles or you have

[1:02:09] Trustee Middleton: initial observations any of the team really but it sounds like in order to present something in

[1:02:17] Trustee Middleton: November 30th that we would have to receive something from from you around you know let's

[1:02:22] Trustee Middleton: say for sake of argument November 7th end of the first week of November.

[1:02:26] Voice 6: I have a sense right now

[1:02:28] Voice 6: Now, Russ, Lee, that it's a little premature to 100% commit to this right now, you know,

[1:02:35] Voice 1: since

[1:02:35] Voice 6: we've only been doing document review.

[1:02:38] Voice 6: You know, we haven't had any discussion on, you know, bringing together our findings as

[1:02:43] Voice 6: a group because we've been going off in three directions in terms of the respective subject

[1:02:49] Voice 6: matter experts.

[1:02:50] Voice 6: You know, we still have a lot of documents to review before we get to formulating the

[1:02:55] Voice 6: questions.

[1:02:57] Voice 6: so you know what i'd like to do is uh maybe leave this for where it is right now and and come back

[1:03:03] Voice 6: to it you know after we've uh you know gone out and uh and agreed on on the interviews and the

[1:03:10] Voice 6: interview processes and the number of people we have to interview and then and get into into that

[1:03:15] Voice 6: exercise that you have to find it where we're going because it's a little hard to steer the

[1:03:20] Voice 6: ship from from back here after you know you know the limited amount of time we've had to actually

[1:03:26] Voice 6: you know get access to documents and begin our review process this is for

[1:03:31] Voice 6: us this is early days

[1:03:33] Voice 6: and yeah

[1:03:34] Trustee Middleton: and i think as far as the committee goes we actually have what we we need we have had a

[1:03:39] Trustee Middleton: motion from last time to accept the uh the final report by the end of april 2022 so from a legal

[1:03:45] Trustee Middleton: perspective in terms of the contract everything everything's fine there and

[1:03:49] Trustee Middleton: also a trustee Chris's idea I don't want to let be lost I think the idea of

[1:03:54] Trustee Middleton: potentially a special meeting of the trust as we have had before in January

[1:04:00] Trustee Middleton: might be something we want to consider as the work of the consultants unfolds

[1:04:04] Trustee Middleton: that we actually focus specifically on some of the preliminary recommendations

[1:04:08] Trustee Middleton: add a special meeting a day-long meeting as I think we've had in Nanaimo just to

[1:04:13] Trustee Middleton: to allow people from the Northern islands

[1:04:16] Trustee Middleton: and Southern islands to sort of meet in the middle,

[1:04:18] Trustee Middleton: so to speak.

[1:04:18] Trustee Middleton: So I would just leave that there as an idea

[1:04:23] Trustee Middleton: that we to not forget.

[1:04:25] Trustee Middleton: And otherwise, yeah, I think we might be able

[1:04:27] Trustee Middleton: to complete conclude this agenda item.

[1:04:30] Trustee Middleton: We have what we need from a legal perspective

[1:04:32] Trustee Middleton: and it was good discussion.

[1:04:34] Trustee Middleton: And we can check in at each meeting

[1:04:38] Trustee Middleton: and see how the work is unfolding

[1:04:40] Trustee Middleton: and narrow down those dates as we go.

[1:04:44] Trustee Middleton: any objection to that okay all right so um do you

[1:04:51] Voice 6: want to go to the next

[1:04:52] Trustee Middleton: item charles yeah move on

[1:04:54] Voice 6: to uh 4.3 the advocacy uh in your package there's a note that was prepared by um um james jim roach

[1:05:03] Voice 6: and uh you know jim i'm going to pass this item over to you to lead the discussion and we've

[1:05:09] Voice 6: already had some discussion from uh you know trustee brent on this but uh you may want to

[1:05:13] Voice 6: to walk through the reasoning here and and and and so we make it clear what you know why we're

[1:05:19] Voice 6: doing this so everyone's fully aware to the thinking behind this yeah

[1:05:24] Voice 14: uh well we've had

[1:05:25] Voice 14: discussion actually from two uh members of the of the committee uh and as was presaged in those

[1:05:32] Voice 14: comments uh a look at the reality of how the trust proceeds and conducts its advocacy

[1:05:41] Voice 14: advocacy suggests it's not very conducive to doing a classic review of efficiency and

[1:05:48] Voice 14: effectiveness and analyzing it on a cost-benefit basis or anything like that. It's just not the

[1:05:55] Voice 14: way it's working. But that, of course, does not mean that we would not look at the advocacy

[1:06:00] Voice 14: function in a real way and come up with some meaningful observations and recommendations.

[1:06:06] Voice 14: recommendations. The idea is really to review and to comment on specific and discrete initiatives

[1:06:14] Voice 14: that exist today, first of all, so as not to ignore that, but then to look forward from the

[1:06:22] Voice 14: point of view of what else might be done. And in that sense, the questions really are what constitutes

[1:06:29] Voice 14: advocacy in the first place, and how the function is organized, and what level of effort should

[1:06:36] Voice 14: be devoted towards it and how is it measured and I think the most intriguing question is how

[1:06:43] Voice 14: the items for advocacy are determined in other words how we come to decisions as to

[1:06:51] Voice 14: whether we're focusing on internal internally focused issues or external ones and in either case

[1:06:58] Voice 14: which ones and to what extent so that then led to another question related to the survey

[1:07:09] Voice 14: the survey was based on the idea that we could test against measurements and benchmarks that

[1:07:17] Voice 14: had already been established either in previous work or in respect of certain campaigns advocacy

[1:07:24] Voice 14: efficacy campaigns that had expected outcomes and measurements and objectives and goals

[1:07:30] Voice 14: associated with them.

[1:07:31] Voice 14: That not being the case, much of the efficacy of the survey is diminished.

[1:07:38] Voice 14: Moreover, undertaking a survey is complicated, as any of you would have told us had we had

[1:07:44] Voice 14: a chance to talk before we had written our proposal, for a number of reasons, including

[1:07:48] Voice 14: all the activities that are underway, the ones that have been done previously, the difficulty

[1:07:53] Voice 14: in reaching people and in generating a robust response rate.

[1:08:00] Voice 14: Some fear that these surveys can become captive

[1:08:04] Voice 14: to certain interest groups or sectors.

[1:08:09] Voice 14: And so it's geographic representativeness

[1:08:11] Voice 14: and it's representativeness in terms of various activities

[1:08:17] Voice 14: and locations that are always there.

[1:08:20] Voice 14: All that to say, I must say also

[1:08:23] Voice 14: that the trust staff were willing to try to help from the point of view of

[1:08:27] Voice 14: putting the survey out there although capacity is limited and it might not be

[1:08:33] Voice 14: as effective and efficient as we would have envisaged this isn't a case of

[1:08:38] Voice 14: having an email blast to virtually everyone who is resident in the trust

[1:08:44] Voice 14: area who has a an email address and asking them to fill out a simple 10

[1:08:49] Voice 14: 10 minute survey.

[1:08:50] Voice 14: That would be wonderful if it were possible, but it isn't.

[1:08:54] Voice 14: So in light of all of that,

[1:08:56] Voice 14: we're suggesting that we not proceed with the survey

[1:08:58] Voice 14: and instead we do as I've indicated,

[1:09:01] Voice 14: look at the advocacy function in all those dimensions

[1:09:04] Voice 14: and at the same time, take some of the,

[1:09:08] Voice 14: now let's call it surplus effort and resources

[1:09:10] Voice 14: that are available and focus it on the interviews.

[1:09:13] Voice 14: So we have room as MF had indicated earlier,

[1:09:16] Voice 14: we have room for more interviews

[1:09:18] Voice 14: use than than just you know a ceiling of 40 and we'll use them in a slightly broader way

[1:09:24] Voice 14: than we might have if we had had the survey running so all of that is documented in those

[1:09:29] Voice 14: few paragraphs you have and that's that's where we are your chair's on mute right now

[1:09:41] Voice 14: yeah

[1:09:42] Trustee Middleton: there we are sorry um is there any any uh comment questions about uh um uh jim's report

[1:09:56] Trustee Morrison: yeah i'll jump in on that lee go

[1:09:59] Trustee Middleton: ahead trustee morrison thank you

[1:10:02] Trustee Morrison: um so i agree for the reasons you've laid out that a survey doesn't seem like the best

[1:10:09] Trustee Morrison: um most sort of robust way of getting a cross-section of information um it's really

[1:10:16] Trustee Morrison: reflective of the whole of the trust area and the other problem that we have here um

[1:10:22] Trustee Morrison: is that ideally the trust work is actually for the benefit of all british columbia too

[1:10:28] Trustee Morrison: so we're not necessarily able to survey all of british columbia and they don't necessarily know

[1:10:33] Trustee Morrison: what's going on so so there's a little bit of a communications work that's underway in the trust

[1:10:38] Trustee Morrison: right now to actually broaden and enrich in how the trust communicates but that's not in

[1:10:44] Trustee Morrison: full force yet and so i don't think a survey necessarily is as helpful for the public broadly

[1:10:50] Trustee Morrison: lovely. I guess my question is, so I have two questions. One is a little bit about what you're

[1:11:01] Trustee Morrison: naming as internal or not external, maybe is the way it seems to come across. Advocacy, I think I

[1:11:09] Trustee Morrison: need to understand a little bit more what's meant by that. I think I know, but I'd like to just be

[1:11:13] Trustee Morrison: be clear about what that is and then the other piece is about um who is it that we think might

[1:11:23] Trustee Morrison: be in that pool of additional interviewees that might help us understand the efficacy of our

[1:11:29] Trustee Morrison: advocacy it's a weird way to say that so that would be the two questions okay

[1:11:33] Voice 14: i i mentioned that

[1:11:34] Voice 14: one of one of the one of the exercises that we will undertake is to examine the question of what

[1:11:41] Voice 14: what is advocacy? And when you look at internal advocacy, classically, and in this perspective

[1:11:49] Voice 14: and paradigm, advocacy includes activities that are intended to build awareness, understanding,

[1:11:55] Voice 14: and support. Awareness, understanding, and support. So that is focused largely internally,

[1:12:01] Voice 14: but also it has an external component. So it's for the trust itself, awareness of the trust,

[1:12:06] Voice 14: understanding of the trust support for the trust but it's as well as advocating on behalf of the

[1:12:13] Voice 14: trust for the trust's own interests and it's also on behalf of issues of concern to the trust

[1:12:19] Voice 14: so there's three dimensions to advocacy and while many of them are focused as i say internally or

[1:12:26] Voice 14: to the domestic audience some of them clearly are focused on external audiences outside of the trust

[1:12:32] Voice 14: area so it's a it's a bigger question than um than just what are you doing for advocacy per se

[1:12:39] Voice 14: we also come to the question of uh how that's done it so advocacy is not just making representations

[1:12:46] Voice 14: it's how you communicate and the communication campaigns that you undertake it's how you come

[1:12:51] Voice 14: to understand what's important to other people so how you're listening how you're building

[1:12:55] Voice 14: building coalitions, all of those things.

[1:12:57] Voice 14: So it's a big pile, and some of this stuff is being done now, some of it isn't, and all

[1:13:06] Voice 14: those questions have to be looked at.

[1:13:08] Voice 14: In terms of who else you would talk to in the context of advocacy, it's a question I've

[1:13:15] Voice 14: asked Claire on Russ's staff about who they work with outside of the trust area on issues

[1:13:23] Voice 14: that are of mutual concern.

[1:13:25] Voice 14: So you have like-minded organizations and interests

[1:13:27] Voice 14: that you may be building coalitions with.

[1:13:30] Voice 14: Well, who are those?

[1:13:31] Voice 14: We'd like to talk to them.

[1:13:32] Voice 14: We'd like to talk to people who are the objects

[1:13:34] Voice 14: of your advocacy, whether they be those interests

[1:13:40] Voice 14: who are involved in public policy issues

[1:13:43] Voice 14: that are of concern to you or something of another nature.

[1:13:46] Voice 14: So we try to refine a short list of those

[1:13:50] Voice 14: and add them to the interview list.

[1:13:53] Voice 14: MF talked about the interview guide and how important it is and in some cases the interview

[1:13:58] Voice 14: guide may all be may be different for some of these people than it would be clearly what it

[1:14:03] Voice 14: would be for counselors you wouldn't ask the same questions but you would be trying to understand

[1:14:08] Voice 14: what they're getting how they perceive the trust how they see them as a as a colleague or a

[1:14:16] Voice 14: collaborator uh and related questions like that thank

[1:14:24] Trustee Morrison: you um

[1:14:26] Trustee Middleton: trustee leckham is is your hand

[1:14:29] Trustee Middleton: raised from yes

[1:14:32] Trustee Luckham: it is yeah okay

[1:14:33] Trustee Middleton: please go ahead i'm

[1:14:37] Trustee Luckham: uh really appreciating uh the perspective

[1:14:41] Trustee Luckham: that you're bringing here to understanding advocacy there's a lot in your and i wrote

[1:14:49] Trustee Luckham: wrote it down and I'm hoping I got it right. I may have got the second word wrong, but I think

[1:14:53] Trustee Luckham: the principle is the same awareness, understanding, and support. And this is incredibly complex.

[1:15:04] Trustee Luckham: And as probably one of the lead persons that campaigns the advocacy trail,

[1:15:10] Trustee Luckham: rail, the success is the most difficult thing to measure. And success often spans many, many,

[1:15:22] Trustee Luckham: many terms of councils. And so the change is not necessarily apparent. And so for instance,

[1:15:33] Trustee Luckham: I can, as I did last week, you know, I don't ever get to walk into an MP's office these days, but

[1:15:41] Trustee Luckham: but you have a virtual room that you go into.

[1:15:43] Trustee Luckham: And absolutely, I can gain awareness,

[1:15:47] Trustee Luckham: I can gain understanding,

[1:15:49] Trustee Luckham: and I can gain support for any particular issue.

[1:15:53] Trustee Luckham: Whether or not that particular MP

[1:15:55] Trustee Luckham: at that particular point in time,

[1:15:58] Trustee Luckham: or that minister at that point in time

[1:16:01] Trustee Luckham: is able to affect change on my behalf

[1:16:03] Trustee Luckham: is another thing altogether.

[1:16:06] Trustee Luckham: And so we advocate, I always like to say that,

[1:16:10] Trustee Luckham: In fact, I think of our minister, Josie Osborne, as our champion, and that if I can develop awareness, understanding, and support from our minister, that minister can go to her cabinet to seek support for issues that are important to the Islands Trust Council, which spans all of the entire spectrum, which has been discussed.

[1:16:36] Trustee Luckham: things outside of our ability of jurisdiction and changes to enable us to have broader jurisdiction

[1:16:43] Trustee Luckham: or greater resources of some kind. So I actually look, I'm not going to say any more, except I

[1:16:50] Trustee Luckham: really appreciate the focus on understanding the advocacy piece here, because there's certainly a

[1:16:58] Trustee Luckham: lot to learn. And I can't help but wonder, but of course, there's no given that any of the folks

[1:17:05] Trustee Luckham: that we've been advocating of for change are interested in the slightest in having a conversation

[1:17:11] Trustee Luckham: with you. But it would be interesting to know from MPs, ministers, other agencies,

[1:17:18] Trustee Luckham: how effective the advocacy work we've been doing is perceived. Certainly, we have

[1:17:27] Trustee Luckham: and I think it's true, we have a reputation for being credible, fact-based, and respective of

[1:17:37] Trustee Luckham: the process when we do advocate for folks. And we do have a strong awareness and understanding

[1:17:44] Trustee Luckham: and a lot of support. Whether or not it actually materializes in the outcomes that we desire

[1:17:51] Trustee Luckham: is hard to say. But I look forward to having more of a conversation with you on that outside of this.

[1:17:56] Trustee Luckham: but I just wanted to share some thoughts there from the committee level to understand some of

[1:18:04] Trustee Luckham: what my thinking is and help develop this conversation further.

[1:18:12] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. I think those

[1:18:14] Trustee Middleton: are insightful points, and I wonder if we could even sharpen that as a further sense of how we're

[1:18:23] Trustee Middleton: doing, because I understand sort of between the lines of Jim's comments, if one has a particular

[1:18:30] Trustee Middleton: particular advocacy goal, let's say, with the Minister of Transportation in terms of

[1:18:35] Trustee Middleton: things that we want to see happening in the areas of the local trust areas, the waters

[1:18:40] Trustee Middleton: of the local trust area, potential in regards anchorages or in regards to the resident killer

[1:18:45] Trustee Middleton: whales and the oceans protections plan, obviously writing letters would be a component of a

[1:18:52] Trustee Middleton: strategy that could perhaps be articulated and I'm sure Jim will speak to that.

[1:18:57] Trustee Middleton: but it might be interesting to know we have written letters to the minister of transportation

[1:19:02] Trustee Middleton: we regularly write letters to the minister of transportation my feeling is that the consulting

[1:19:08] Trustee Middleton: team and you don't have to respond to this of course has sufficient contacts at probably the

[1:19:14] Trustee Middleton: most senior levels in the federal government that it might we might actually be able to get some

[1:19:18] Trustee Middleton: anonymous feedback into how how the um that campaign is perceived and or received at the

[1:19:25] Trustee Middleton: the minister's office and how we might actually work differently with that minister's office to

[1:19:30] Trustee Middleton: perhaps get support and or engagement on some of the things that are important to us um i think

[1:19:37] Trustee Middleton: it's a unique opportunity we have here well

[1:19:41] Voice 14: that's a great art to be able to do that and and uh

[1:19:45] Voice 14: rather than delve into the specifics of it i i think there is a method by which you come to

[1:19:51] Voice 14: to understand that very thing, how to relate to a minister's office

[1:19:56] Voice 14: as part of your professional advocacy skill set and toolkit.

[1:20:01] Voice 14: In other words, and it changes with every minister

[1:20:04] Voice 14: because of their different personalities, their different priorities,

[1:20:08] Voice 14: their different staff, all kinds of things.

[1:20:10] Voice 14: So any key that you get today will be out of date by the next shuffle.

[1:20:16] Voice 14: But what won't be out of date will be the skills that allow you

[1:20:21] Voice 14: you to understand, to get a reading on a minister's office

[1:20:24] Voice 14: and to connect with them on things that matter to them.

[1:20:28] Voice 14: That's the key thing.

[1:20:30] Voice 14: Just one other comment on Councillor Luckham's point,

[1:20:32] Voice 14: which is so important about how you measure success

[1:20:36] Voice 14: and measuring success only by end result

[1:20:39] Voice 14: is almost like not measuring it because it's so ephemeral,

[1:20:42] Voice 14: it's so far out, and it's so subject to so many other things

[1:20:46] Voice 14: than just your efforts.

[1:20:47] Voice 14: So, that's not a good idea as the main measure. You have to come back from that to tactics and say, we have identified several tactics or initiatives that we're going to undertake and we'll measure them rather than the end result.

[1:21:03] Voice 14: So if it's letter writing, did I write the 20 letters? That's already a measure of having accomplished part of your goal, although it's a rather simple one. But there are many others in terms of contacting the right people or putting yourself in touch with the right organizations or convening the right meetings or whatever it is.

[1:21:22] Voice 14: So those become your measurements, in a way, rather than the end result. So at least you know that you're following your strategy, you're implementing the initiatives that you hope are going to lead to success without ever being certain that they will.

[1:21:42] Voice 14: So we're happy to go through that kind of stuff in the report, and I appreciate the level of awareness of the committee on this.

[1:21:53] Voice 14: maybe

[1:21:58] Trustee Morrison: if i can just do one follow-up on that sure

[1:22:01] Voice 6: go ahead um

[1:22:03] Trustee Morrison: so i i think that's a really

[1:22:07] Trustee Morrison: appropriate strategy um i think you know obviously whenever we advocate we also just want our way

[1:22:14] Trustee Morrison: um you know so there's like a reality to we want to see the changes that we're hoping to advocate

[1:22:20] Trustee Morrison: for in the world um but i think the other measure that i would add to what you you have a much more

[1:22:26] Trustee Morrison: pragmatic and realistic approach to it, which I agree with, like that measuring the strategies

[1:22:30] Trustee Morrison: is a good measurable way to think about it. One of the other things I think that I would add to

[1:22:36] Trustee Morrison: that is it would be good to know how we're communicating effective advocacy efforts back

[1:22:46] Trustee Morrison: throughout the trust. So like an issue comes up like helicopters and it, I can't not say my

[1:22:55] Trustee Morrison: my helicopter issue um and so like the helicopters in the trust area it arises on an island it might

[1:23:01] Trustee Morrison: add you know expand into the trust council level of advocacy across the trust we go out we ask for

[1:23:07] Trustee Morrison: all these things and we have a strategy we measure how we're doing the strategy it would also be good

[1:23:11] Trustee Morrison: to measure if we get a response back that's actually meeting what were our request is or

[1:23:17] Trustee Morrison: some vein of what our request is how is that um response to our advocacy communicated back through

[1:23:25] Trustee Morrison: the the organization and into our sort of related bins in the trust that would be helpful to know

[1:23:33] Trustee Morrison: too so

[1:23:34] Voice 14: not not just what you do but how you let people know what you've done yeah absolutely

[1:23:40] Voice 14: absolutely thank

[1:23:44] Trustee Middleton: you um yes uh uh please yeah

[1:23:50] Trustee Luckham: you know obviously this conversation should go

[1:23:52] Trustee Luckham: on forever so i apologize in advance um but um trustee morrison really struck on i think

[1:24:02] Trustee Luckham: some significant uh elements there and certainly whether it's helicopters or uh vessels that

[1:24:11] Trustee Luckham: anchor in the sailor sea which cons which actually the common element of those two things is that it

[1:24:19] Trustee Luckham: has potentially large implications on the very fabric of the work that we do for which if we're

[1:24:30] Trustee Luckham: going to advocate for change we need a national recognition of that necessity and that um

[1:24:38] Trustee Luckham: I think that the element of advocacy is not so much advocating other agencies to support what we want to do, but advocating to the public at large, and I'm speaking about nationally, because of what often is juxtaposed is this is in the national best interest.

[1:25:01] Trustee Luckham: Well, the preservation and protection of the Southern Gulf Islands and a proposed national

[1:25:07] Trustee Luckham: and marine conservation area is also in the national interest.

[1:25:11] Trustee Luckham: And I'm just saying that because I feel that I personally have been ineffective at trying

[1:25:18] Trustee Luckham: to get a national interest about why vessel anchorages and or helicopters are of a big

[1:25:26] Trustee Luckham: concern to us.

[1:25:27] Trustee Luckham: and it's not just because it's in our backyard it's because we are uh so there's not so i'll

[1:25:33] Trustee Luckham: just end it there there's a a much bigger level of advocacy which is not advocating governments

[1:25:40] Trustee Luckham: or agencies but the public at large thank

[1:25:48] Trustee Middleton: you no thank you for those comments um you know very

[1:25:52] Trustee Middleton: uh very good discussion i think and um uh it sounds like we've accepted um the recommendation

[1:25:59] Trustee Middleton: recommendation of the of the of the memo in regard the uh the advocacy and opinion survey

[1:26:05] Trustee Middleton: and uh with thanks it seems to be a very good direction the one that I unless anyone speaks

[1:26:11] Trustee Middleton: up here I'd say we fully endorse and minutes can certainly reflect so and see no no dissenting

[1:26:21] Trustee Middleton: voice um perhaps is there anything you want to touch base on Charles or we we have a moment to

[1:26:28] Trustee Middleton: other issues for discussion at 4.5 but before we move on to our schedule anything you want to

[1:26:33] Trustee Middleton: um want to speak to before we do before we do move uh

[1:26:39] Voice 6: no i think we discussed at the last meeting

[1:26:42] Voice 6: that we will try to have a a meeting with the select committee um once a month and i think

[1:26:48] Voice 6: you know these meetings are valuable for us and i also want to comment again about how

[1:26:54] Voice 6: how appreciative we are of the cooperation of Russ

[1:26:57] Voice 6: and his staff to make their time available to us

[1:26:59] Voice 6: and in our efforts to better understand both the issues

[1:27:04] Voice 6: and the background and the documents

[1:27:06] Voice 6: that you're working with.

[1:27:07] Voice 6: So I'd like to thank everybody for their work so far

[1:27:10] Voice 6: and look forward to moving on

[1:27:13] Voice 6: and coming up with a schedule process

[1:27:17] Voice 6: and ask Lee to lead the discussion

[1:27:20] Voice 6: of meeting schedules with your colleagues

[1:27:23] Voice 6: or what's in the realm of where you want to be,

[1:27:26] Voice 6: when, how, when, what are the dates you want to work with?

[1:27:29] Voice 6: Thank you.

[1:27:30] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:27:31] Trustee Middleton: Yes, what I thought we would do is try to come up with a formula

[1:27:36] Trustee Middleton: that might work for six months out.

[1:27:38] Trustee Middleton: So that would be until we might then need to make further adjustment in October.

[1:27:44] Trustee Middleton: So we'll choose meeting dates from June through November,

[1:27:48] Trustee Middleton: knowing that in October we will be in a position to understand better where we are.

[1:27:53] Trustee Middleton: we can then choose the meeting dates from October through March in October. For right now,

[1:27:59] Trustee Middleton: would I like to just see if we could land on a time that it's probably not possible. It works

[1:28:06] Trustee Middleton: brilliantly with everybody's schedule, but works as well as we can for a monthly meeting

[1:28:14] Trustee Middleton: um from now through to um uh november inclusive and i think um i'm thinking that actually this

[1:28:25] Trustee Middleton: meeting was to be our june meetings because we moved it forward uh in consideration of the

[1:28:30] Trustee Middleton: imminence of trust council so i don't actually think we need a meeting in june unless uh

[1:28:38] Trustee Middleton: anybody uh differs we can of course hear that so we're looking basically at meeting in in in july

[1:28:45] Trustee Middleton: august september october november so five meetings um we had typically met the first monday that's

[1:28:52] Trustee Middleton: always been a direct conflict for trustee morrison so i think we were in recognition of her

[1:28:58] Trustee Middleton: contribution we want to avoid that we're obviously dealing with some of our our contractors who are

[1:29:04] Trustee Middleton: on the east coast uh so obviously there's a time difference to be considered of we have our staff

[1:29:10] Trustee Middleton: who obviously are quite rightly you know that have an expectation to be working during business hours

[1:29:14] Trustee Middleton: hours and generally not beyond. And then a further consideration was Trustee McConkie,

[1:29:20] Trustee Middleton: who is his schedule doesn't tend to permit daytime meetings. Now, that latter point in

[1:29:29] Trustee Middleton: order to accommodate that we really do run into a wall with staff's availability and

[1:29:32] Trustee Middleton: also the Eastern Eastern time zone. So having said all that, if why don't we just start

[1:29:42] Trustee Middleton: with you dad because i know i you were going to look at roughly your calendar and come up with

[1:29:46] Trustee Middleton: some starting dates so better you than anyone roughly what day and time in a week or in the

[1:29:53] Trustee Middleton: month is is a viable time for you yeah

[1:29:56] Trustee Morrison: and for me the the biggest issue um i didn't

[1:30:00] Trustee Morrison: realized there was an east coast time issue um that definitely does put a challenge for us finding

[1:30:05] Trustee Morrison: a time i wouldn't

[1:30:07] Voice 12: i wouldn't worry about that

[1:30:08] Trustee Morrison: okay um yeah

[1:30:11] Voice 12: okay thank you mf are

[1:30:12] Trustee Morrison: you with the

[1:30:13] Trustee Morrison: east coaster i'm

[1:30:14] Voice 12: in ottawa oh you're in

[1:30:16] Voice 12: ottawa if i'm allowed to i'll be in vancouver as early

[1:30:20] Voice 12: as monday so oh there you go we

[1:30:22] Trustee Morrison: got her out there

[1:30:23] Voice 12: a lot um

[1:30:25] Trustee Morrison: so i know that meetings after

[1:30:28] Trustee Morrison: after three o'clock are much easier

[1:30:31] Trustee Morrison: for Trustee McConaghy to make.

[1:30:34] Trustee Morrison: And Russ, what is the staff timing?

[1:30:37] Trustee Morrison: Is it 4.30 or five?

[1:30:42] Voice 13: You know, that's not really a factor to consider here.

[1:30:47] Voice 13: It's Laurie and I are primarily the people

[1:30:49] Voice 13: who would be assisting the committee.

[1:30:51] Trustee Morrison: Okay, because if we went for a three to five window,

[1:30:54] Trustee Morrison: Mondays do work.

[1:30:55] Trustee Morrison: It's just this one o'clock window doesn't work.

[1:30:58] Trustee Morrison: So a three to five window on any of those Mondays

[1:31:02] Trustee Morrison: if i can book them out in advance i can make it so it's the challenge i had this spring is when they

[1:31:08] Trustee Morrison: pop up on my schedule like i can't i can't handle that kind of quick turnaround on meeting times

[1:31:14] Trustee Middleton: so great thank you so three to five on the monday the first monday of the month has generally shown

[1:31:19] Trustee Middleton: itself to work um again i don't know if it would accommodate trustee mcconkey but maybe with that

[1:31:25] Trustee Middleton: Mayor Mrakas, He can make it work, I would be hesitant to go any any later than that um we did try going later than that, and it was it's still without notice it didn't work from either, and so it is

[1:31:42] Voice 13: the summertime share middleton so perhaps that provides

[1:31:45] Trustee Morrison: him be better

[1:31:47] Voice 13: for him for the next three months if it's the first day of each month, I would think July August and even September would fall into that category so

[1:31:53] Trustee Morrison: yeah it's

[1:31:55] Voice 13: a good point yeah.

[1:31:56] Voice 13: um

[1:31:57] Trustee Morrison: just to just to be clear several of those fall on holidays yes holidays

[1:32:05] Voice 12: so we may want to

[1:32:08] Trustee Morrison: go with the second monday does

[1:32:10] Trustee Middleton: the second monday present any problems

[1:32:12] Trustee Middleton: with the trust meeting calendar is that a regular meeting that we'd be interfering with or

[1:32:17] Trustee Middleton: does that look okay this would be the second monday three to five pacific time so that's the

[1:32:24] Trustee Middleton: The 12th of July would be the next meeting of this body?

[1:32:29] Trustee Middleton: 11th, I would, I have.

[1:32:32] Trustee Middleton: 12th is a Monday.

[1:32:34] Trustee Middleton: 12th is the Monday.

[1:32:35] Voice 12: The only problem you'll have is October.

[1:32:38] Voice 13: Sorry, I'm in 22.

[1:32:39] Voice 12: The only problem you'll have is October, which is Thanksgiving.

[1:32:42] Trustee Morrison: Right.

[1:32:42] Trustee Morrison: And then we can just move that back to the first Monday.

[1:32:44] Trustee Morrison: Yeah.

[1:32:46] Trustee Middleton: Okay.

[1:32:46] Trustee Middleton: So that would be July 12th, August 9th.

[1:32:53] Trustee Middleton: 9th.

[1:32:54] Trustee Middleton: September 13th, October 4th, and November 8th.

[1:33:03] Trustee Middleton: What do you got?

[1:33:04] Voice 12: November 8th again.

[1:33:07] Trustee Morrison: Yeah.

[1:33:10] Trustee Morrison: So the only one of, so October 12th, August 9th.

[1:33:15] Trustee Middleton: October 4th.

[1:33:18] Trustee Morrison: Yeah.

[1:33:18] Trustee Middleton: September

[1:33:19] Trustee Morrison: 13th, October 4th.

[1:33:24] Trustee Morrison: Okay.

[1:33:25] Trustee Morrison: So the only one I can't make that is the number eight.

[1:33:28] Trustee Middleton: okay and closer to that date we'll actually know more about what we're

[1:33:32] Trustee Middleton: doing in regard Trust Council or whether we need to adjust our meeting to

[1:33:37] Trustee Middleton: accommodate the consultants in terms of our recommendations and what etc so I

[1:33:43] Trustee Middleton: think if we can perhaps is November for November 1st is not a holiday though is

[1:33:50] Trustee Middleton: is it? I

[1:33:53] Trustee Middleton: don't see it here. November 1st work? Yeah,

[1:33:56] Voice 3: that's fine.

[1:33:59] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, November 1st.

[1:34:01] Trustee Luckham: So can I

[1:34:02] Trustee Luckham: just ask what time of day are we talking about? I missed that part.

[1:34:05] Trustee Middleton: 3 to 5 p.m.

[1:34:07] Trustee Luckham: Okay, that's fine

[1:34:08] Trustee Luckham: because I have Laskini Island on most of those Mondays, but if it's at three o'clock, that'll

[1:34:13] Trustee Luckham: it'll be fine.

[1:34:14] Trustee Morrison: Okay. Sorry for the long day.

[1:34:18] Trustee Luckham: Oh, well, that's the life.

[1:34:20] Trustee Middleton: So, um, Laura, I, I, we need a motion, I think, to capture those meeting dates. Um, and so I know it's not normal practice to move, but do you want, do you want to do it then? You wrote, I

[1:34:35] Trustee Morrison: got it. Okay. I moved that the select committee, um, and Peter, would we be requesting? No, sorry.

[1:34:45] Trustee Morrison: I'm just going to do it.

[1:34:46] Trustee Morrison: I move that the select committee request staff

[1:34:52] Trustee Morrison: to arrange meetings for July 12th, August 9th,

[1:34:58] Trustee Morrison: September 13th, October 4th, and November 1st

[1:35:03] Trustee Morrison: from three to five Pacific time.

[1:35:06] Trustee Middleton: Great.

[1:35:08] Trustee Middleton: A seconder please.

[1:35:11] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Luckham.

[1:35:13] Trustee Middleton: And how was that Laurie?

[1:35:14] Trustee Middleton: Did you get those dates down okay for the motion?

[1:35:21] Voice 1: Yes, I did.

[1:35:22] Voice 1: uh it was november 1st not the 8th

[1:35:25] Trustee Middleton: first okay great thank you very much and we probably

[1:35:30] Trustee Morrison: we probably need to add 2021 at the end of that

[1:35:38] Trustee Middleton: um okay all those in favor great thank you very much that's that's excellent okay so that's a key

[1:35:46] Trustee Middleton: piece of uh information we needed to achieve today and matt that was relatively painless so

[1:35:51] Trustee Middleton: thank you everyone um so moving on to other issues for discussion the only that didn't really come up

[1:35:57] Trustee Middleton: in our earlier discussion but the only item and i'm glad you're here deb is just any any

[1:36:03] Trustee Middleton: considerations other than it's obviously uh uh data for um review by the committee but any

[1:36:11] Trustee Middleton: considerations in regard the uh policy statement review running in parallel with the um with the

[1:36:19] Trustee Middleton: work of the consultants on the governance and management review. Anything you want to say,

[1:36:26] Trustee Middleton: Deb, as the chair of the committee leading that work?

[1:36:29] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, I can weigh in on that. And then,

[1:36:31] Trustee Morrison: Russ, if you have any other thoughts, too, on this. So the trust policy review, it's well out

[1:36:40] Trustee Morrison: of sort of haven't been reviewed for years and years. So there's a lot of things going on now

[1:36:45] Trustee Morrison: with review. There's a lot of changes potentially being made. So I feel that, you know, having that

[1:36:51] Trustee Morrison: run in parallel is not a problem because there is a motion also being put forward to actually

[1:36:59] Trustee Morrison: have the trust policy statement reviewed at a much more frequent interval. So a year or two

[1:37:05] Trustee Morrison: year kind of interval. And so, you know, the changes that we're talking about here, they may

[1:37:11] Trustee Morrison: take a little bit of time to get implemented and be really thoughtful about how we do that.

[1:37:15] Trustee Morrison: Um, and so I think that they will inform each other.

[1:37:19] Trustee Morrison: Like there, there is potentially things that as we learn, like, you know, maybe that informs

[1:37:25] Trustee Morrison: things, but I think there's so much inertia already behind the existing trust policy statement

[1:37:30] Trustee Morrison: and how it's moving that I don't know that that will be a change in this version of the

[1:37:36] Trustee Morrison: trust policy statement.

[1:37:37] Trustee Morrison: Um, but having said that we are also trying to get the review of the trust policy statement

[1:37:43] Trustee Morrison: to be more frequent.

[1:37:44] Trustee Morrison: so I don't think it's a problem necessarily for additional changes that we might want to go

[1:37:49] Trustee Morrison: forward with in the future most of the changes that I can see here would be internal policy

[1:37:54] Trustee Morrison: that are not necessarily in the trust policy statement may or may not be it's hard to know

[1:37:59] Trustee Morrison: but they might be more in the act or they might be more in internal policies and so they're because

[1:38:05] Trustee Morrison: they're governance issues so I don't know that I think it would heavily influence what's going on

[1:38:12] Trustee Morrison: in the trust policy statement russ i don't know if you have a different read on that um

[1:38:16] Voice 13: no i think

[1:38:17] Voice 13: substantially you're you're right um trustee morrison i don't think at the inception of this

[1:38:24] Voice 13: idea there was any idea that there was um a sequence to things that there was uh both this

[1:38:31] Voice 13: process is wholeheartedly moving forward and we'll see what outcomes come of it and the policy

[1:38:36] Voice 13: statement process um since the start has been to get to fourth reading in a reasonable way and to

[1:38:43] Voice 13: do so to get us up to just a reasonable level associated with climate change um reconciliation

[1:38:52] Voice 13: and some some just some key policy um areas that are missing from the policy statement so i don't

[1:38:57] Voice 13: think there's a natural collision here and um i don't think the rest of the trustees do either

[1:39:02] Voice 13: Yeah.

[1:39:04] Trustee Morrison: And honestly, I think for us to ensure that the trust policy statement goes forward in this term in an expedient fashion and make sure we meet our goals, that we should ensure not to conflate the two at this point.

[1:39:18] Trustee Morrison: knowing that there may be overlaps as we go forward with revisions further

[1:39:22] Trustee Morrison: like after this initial round gets done so I think that that might be a good sort of communication

[1:39:29] Trustee Morrison: norm for us as a committee to like really hold this as parallel but currently separate from

[1:39:36] Trustee Morrison: the existing trust policy statement review and

[1:39:40] Trustee Middleton: thank you and uh chair luckham do you have a

[1:39:43] Trustee Middleton: comment well

[1:39:45] Trustee Luckham: i agree with everything that has been uh said um but i thought it was

[1:39:50] Trustee Luckham: reasonable to mention um just in terms of governance that uh in fact the paula existing

[1:39:57] Trustee Luckham: policy stipulates that the uh policy statement should be reviewed or made amendments made

[1:40:05] Trustee Luckham: annually yeah if i'm not mistaken and so capacity has been the issue with so many things in the

[1:40:12] Trustee Luckham: islands trust and actually implementing those things but certainly um would be interested to

[1:40:17] Trustee Luckham: hear remarks on that aspect of our governance from uh consultant

[1:40:22] Voice 3: certainly

[1:40:24] Trustee Luckham: an ongoing uh

[1:40:26] Trustee Luckham: list of amendments that seem long-term focused are i think really important in the in that work

[1:40:37] Trustee Middleton: Good. Thank

[1:40:38] Trustee Luckham: you.

[1:40:40] Trustee Middleton: And I would add for a consultant's benefit that we certainly, as a corollary, don't anticipate that because the policy statement is being reviewed, that in some ways it means it's off limits for itself being analyzed or evaluated as a key piece of the governance and or policy structure of the organization.

[1:40:58] Trustee Middleton: because of course it is and actually it's sort of timely that the review takes place while the

[1:41:03] Trustee Middleton: policy statement itself is being reviewed because the consultants can have a look at that process

[1:41:07] Trustee Middleton: in real time how it's unfolding how it's effective perhaps how there could be adjustments to how that

[1:41:14] Trustee Middleton: works all

[1:41:16] Voice 3: right

[1:41:18] Trustee Middleton: thank you any anything any other issues for discussion before we move

[1:41:21] Trustee Middleton: Maybe

[1:41:22] Trustee Morrison: one last thought on that is, it would, to what Heder just said, it would be really helpful to have advice on, you know, the current trust policy statement review process is fairly extensive because of how long it's been since it was revised.

[1:41:42] Trustee Morrison: um but i think it would be very helpful to know uh you know in terms of governance and revision

[1:41:50] Trustee Morrison: of of our policies internally like what would be a more expedient process that could do that

[1:41:57] Trustee Morrison: kind of annual review that wouldn't be um quite so encumbered like is there the five-year version

[1:42:02] Trustee Morrison: and the one-year version you know and what would that look like that would be a little helpful to

[1:42:06] Trustee Morrison: have some guidance on thank

[1:42:08] Trustee Critchley: you thank

[1:42:11] Trustee Middleton: you and and any last comments or points from our consulting

[1:42:15] Trustee Middleton: team uh before we move on to um which i don't think we have any new business so we would probably

[1:42:21] Trustee Middleton: move on to adjourn so in any last comments another

[1:42:26] Voice 12: very helpful meeting and again i want to echo what

[1:42:28] Voice 12: my colleagues have said about working with russ and his staff to get us all sorts of documentation

[1:42:33] Voice 12: it's been very good and uh we've had quite a few meetings with russ and he's been generous

[1:42:38] Voice 12: so it's fine thank

[1:42:41] Trustee Middleton: you thank you um

[1:42:43] Trustee Morrison: i had a quick question for the staff related to the review

[1:42:48] Trustee Morrison: russ how are you feeling about like the amount of time that is being required so far by staff or

[1:42:55] Trustee Morrison: because that was a concern at the outset and like before we actually passed review

[1:42:59] Trustee Morrison: and i'm curious

[1:42:59] Trustee Morrison: how that's sort of coming down well

[1:43:02] Voice 13: thrilled about the survey outcome here so uh that's going

[1:43:06] Voice 13: that's going to help because that was a miss a mystery i think or walnut i don't think we could

[1:43:10] Voice 13: have collectively cracked that would deliver value to everybody um and i also hadn't heard

[1:43:17] Voice 13: from the team that they want to interview every staff person so that's also um uh i feel good

[1:43:24] Voice 13: about that there's probably you know eight to ten or or something like that staff people that i

[1:43:29] Voice 13: right now i'm seeing interest in you know those positions um and there's you know whenever an

[1:43:35] Voice 13: organization gets reviewed the staff it's them as a the staff body asks questions but um it's okay

[1:43:41] Voice 13: some it so it's fine right now I think and I think it's going well as we get into more complex

[1:43:47] Voice 13: questions you know as I speak with the group I understand that some of the information they may

[1:43:52] Voice 13: need to give them insight into giving you good answers um will need to be culled right we'll

[1:43:59] Voice 13: We'll need to cull and provide as opposed to just flop down in a folder somewhere.

[1:44:06] Voice 13: So I'm sure there'll be a bit of work in the future.

[1:44:09] Voice 13: But right now, it seems quite manageable.

[1:44:13] Trustee Morrison: And then the other sort of related question is, like, is there anything that you need

[1:44:17] Trustee Morrison: from us in terms of communication to the staff so that there isn't, like, tension?

[1:44:23] Trustee Morrison: Because I totally understand that idea that staff can feel tension about a review, even

[1:44:27] Trustee Morrison: that was more i think honestly i think trustees and management should be more attention

[1:44:32] Trustee Morrison: you know uh

[1:44:34] Voice 13: no i'll i'll you know at trust council we can always have those moments

[1:44:37] Voice 13: when we have those in camera discussions about you know um how to relate but uh i'll come to

[1:44:42] Voice 13: you early and often with any um anything you can you can do chair luckham's pretty um you know

[1:44:50] Voice 13: know, face forward with a lot of that stuff. So I think we're in

[1:44:54] Voice 13: a good place.

[1:44:55] Trustee Morrison: Great. Thank you.

[1:44:58] Trustee Middleton: Great. Thank you. Any any last comments from anybody? Seeing

[1:45:05] Trustee Middleton: non I don't believe we have any new business. And so we have

[1:45:09] Trustee Middleton: already determined our next meeting, which is to be now.

[1:45:16] Trustee Middleton: July the 12th. No, I'm in the wrong year again. Yep, July the

[1:45:20] Trustee Middleton: 12th um and so i think on that basis i'll ask for a motion to adjourn please i

[1:45:28] Trustee Luckham: move that we adjourn

[1:45:31] Trustee Middleton: seconder thank you trustee critchley and in favor thank you everyone for your time and your your

[1:45:38] Trustee Middleton: insights it's much appreciated and i look forward to to working with you all uh next month and

[1:45:44] Trustee Middleton: in the intervening time thank you thank you thank you all

[1:45:48] Trustee Middleton: thank

[1:45:48] Trustee Morrison: you all for being flexible with

[1:45:50] Trustee Morrison: Timelines and dates. Thank you.