Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee regular meeting, November 18, 2021

[0:00:15] Voice 8: And the live stream is on.

[0:00:17] Voice 8: Chair Luckum?

[0:00:20] Trustee Luckham: We're very good.

[0:00:21] Trustee Luckham: Welcome, everybody that's on live streaming or joining us today electronically.

[0:00:28] Trustee Luckham: We're just awaiting one more member of the LTC to join us, and we will begin.

[0:00:34] Trustee Luckham: My name just is Peter Luckum, just to start us off, and I'm the chair of the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee, and a pleasure to be here today.

[0:00:44] Trustee Luckham: day. So we'll just wait a few minutes. I did send a message out. So I assume we'll be able to get

[0:00:52] Trustee Luckham: started here pretty quick.

[0:00:53] Voice 8: So maybe I'll just, oh, there we are, Laura Patrick. Great. Okay,

[0:01:27] Trustee Luckham: everybody, welcome. We are live recording and streaming. And again, I'll just introduce myself

[0:01:36] Trustee Luckham: for anybody that's joining us a little late. I'm Peter Luckham. I'm elected here on Thetis Island.

[0:01:42] Trustee Luckham: And that's actually my background. It's actually a view from, I don't know, 100 feet above my property or something, looking out towards Salt Spring, in fact.

[0:01:53] Trustee Luckham: Anyway, a pleasure to be here and live and work in Coast Salish Territory.

[0:01:58] Trustee Luckham: Here is the Camillican Laiacian Nations. I've been here.

[0:02:02] Trustee Luckham: And somebody has something on that is echoing. I don't believe it's me.

[0:02:09] Trustee Luckham: me anybody hear that somebody not muted looking around rob do you have any idea what that is

[0:02:18] Trustee Luckham: no i think we're uh we're fixed though okay perfect all right then so uh here on uh

[0:02:26] Trustee Luckham: thetis island coast salish territory and of course i'm the chair of salt spring island

[0:02:30] Trustee Luckham: local trust committee and um and we're joined here uh with by with trustee patrick uh elected

[0:02:37] Trustee Luckham: on your island and Peter Grove elected on your island.

[0:02:41] Trustee Luckham: And just looking on the screen here,

[0:02:43] Trustee Luckham: I see that we have members of the Ag Alliance

[0:02:46] Trustee Luckham: and the Agricultural Advisory Planning Commission.

[0:02:49] Trustee Luckham: And I'll just say we have Anne Macy with us,

[0:02:54] Trustee Luckham: Teresa Dunstry, I hope I got that right,

[0:02:57] Trustee Luckham: Conrad Pilon, Bradley Damsgaard, Brian Webster.

[0:03:02] Trustee Luckham: And then on the staff side today,

[0:03:05] Trustee Luckham: Today, we're joined by Christine Mays, planners, Stefan Surmak, our regional planning manager.

[0:03:13] Trustee Luckham: And I understand Jordy Gordon will be joining us a little later.

[0:03:17] Trustee Luckham: He has another commitment.

[0:03:19] Trustee Luckham: I see Zach Hemstreet has just logged in and is joining us.

[0:03:24] Trustee Luckham: And of course, in the background, we have Sarah Sugar keeping our minutes and Rob Pringle, who's running technology.

[0:03:29] Trustee Luckham: So thank you, everybody, for being here.

[0:03:32] Trustee Luckham: care. I just want to acknowledge, actually, and I'm sure that you have your own issues in the last

[0:03:40] Trustee Luckham: week on Salt Spring Island with this atmospheric river we had, but certainly I know people in the

[0:03:47] Trustee Luckham: Chilliwack, Abbotsford, Sumas region, and it's devastating what's happening there, and I'm sure

[0:03:53] Trustee Luckham: that you in the farming community, your hearts are going out to all those folks and the struggles

[0:03:58] Trustee Luckham: that they're having um and i'm sure that there's probably areas on salt spring that have experienced

[0:04:03] Trustee Luckham: some flooding and have some issues and hopefully everybody is okay i know my daughter had to

[0:04:10] Trustee Luckham: evacuate horses that was the big challenge this week for her so um anyway so welcome everybody

[0:04:17] Trustee Luckham: just want to share that uh uh those thoughts there so we have an agenda before us and i'll ask

[0:04:25] Trustee Luckham: ask if there's any new items. There's a short agenda, three items on that agenda. So I'll

[0:04:31] Trustee Luckham: just turn to trustees and staff to see if there's anything else to add. Not seeing any

[0:04:36] Trustee Luckham: hands up. So then I'm going to adopt the agenda as presented. So we've got, just let me get

[0:04:49] Trustee Luckham: to the top of my own page here um we've got um minutes from the july the 15th meeting here and

[0:04:58] Trustee Luckham: i'll ask uh trustees or anybody that's on the line uh although they're obviously minutes of the ltc

[0:05:04] Trustee Luckham: um if there's any changes necessary to those minutes they're not intended to be verbatim

[0:05:10] Trustee Luckham: minutes um they're just a sort of a general log of what unfolded and i'm not seeing any hands

[0:05:16] Trustee Luckham: raised. So I will then also adopt those minutes of our last meeting. Thank you very much.

[0:05:25] Trustee Luckham: So we've got a couple of items here today. This is a slightly different format than the more

[0:05:31] Trustee Luckham: casual roundtable discussions we've been having at the last meeting, a report and some discussion

[0:05:38] Trustee Luckham: on that specifically. And this meeting, I'll be honest, has snuck up on me quite quickly,

[0:05:45] Trustee Luckham: And we may have snuck up on staff quite quickly with so many other things going on.

[0:05:50] Trustee Luckham: But from a previous meeting, there was an interest in having the Salt Spring Island Land Use Inventory Report and Map, which is dated 2017, was received, I think, in February 2018 by the LTC.

[0:06:05] Trustee Luckham: And I'll just maybe turn to staff to see if there's somebody that wants to make any remarks or introduce this topic, and then maybe just see if there's any questions from folks on the line here today with respect to that report.

[0:06:23] Trustee Luckham: Anybody on staff, any introduction there, clarification on why it's here?

[0:06:28] Voice 4: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[0:06:30] Trustee Luckham: Thank

[0:06:30] Voice 4: you, Mr. Chair.

[0:06:32] Voice 4: I'm not going to talk to it too much, only to say that, you know, this work was done in 2017 and it was an update to the previous one that was done.

[0:06:42] Voice 4: And it's an extremely benefit. The unique perspective they took on this was investigating water consumption for agricultural uses.

[0:06:50] Voice 4: So I encourage you to have a look at that. And this was put here on the agenda at the request at the last meeting.

[0:06:58] Voice 4: So staff followed up with that.

[0:07:00] Voice 4: Happy to answer any questions about the information, but I have a hunch that everybody in the audience probably knows more than I.

[0:07:06] Voice 4: So go ahead and speak to it yourselves.

[0:07:10] Voice 4: Unless you have questions for me specifically, I'd be happy to answer them.

[0:07:14] Trustee Luckham: So is there any questions or discussion that we should have with respect to that report here today?

[0:07:21] Trustee Luckham: and I'll just look to trustees as well as the Ag Alliance and advisory committee members that are

[0:07:28] Trustee Luckham: here today. Anybody you could raise a digital hand or raise your other hand. Conrad, over to you.

[0:07:36] Voice 8: Your microphone on. Okay.

[0:07:43] Voice 11: I was just wondering if you did any comparison to the 2007 Ag Rural

[0:07:49] Voice 11: Land Use that was done for the area farm plan in 2007 to those maps and the map that you sent us

[0:07:57] Voice 11: this out last week

[0:07:58] Voice 4: no but that's a fascinating question i would have um you know maybe we can

[0:08:05] Voice 4: follow up i think derek massalink did this one i don't know it

[0:08:09] Voice 11: was rob it was rob um oh my god

[0:08:12] Voice 11: and help me here uh who was it was rob uh

[0:08:16] Voice 1: i can't

[0:08:17] Voice 11: remember the name either but yes

[0:08:19] Voice 11: that

[0:08:20] Voice 1: was the first one but this one might have been i don't know who was helping with this one

[0:08:25] Voice 1: but the first one was our current um at that time the current uh bc oh

[0:08:33] Voice 4: yes of course it's rob rob

[0:08:36] Voice 4: yeah that's linda adams partner yeah that's right

[0:08:40] Voice 11: rob of linda they did they did it as a background to the area farm plan i was just curious whether

[0:08:46] Voice 11: or not there was any reference to it when you were doing this because it was pretty detailed as well

[0:08:52] Voice 4: no it's a good question i'd be happy to investigate that further if that information is available and

[0:08:56] Voice 4: maybe it wasn't included or maybe our mapping department is able to do that quickly if i can't

[0:09:02] Voice 4: make it a big project but i could certainly poke around and ask that question if you'd like

[0:09:06] Voice 4: thank you yeah sure i'll write it down in my follow-up actions

[0:09:13] Trustee Luckham: any other uh questions or thoughts out there um brian go ahead uh

[0:09:21] Voice 5: just just an observation because

[0:09:23] Voice 5: because I think it's relevant to some of the other things

[0:09:25] Voice 5: that we're going to be talking about today.

[0:09:27] Voice 5: If you reviewed the document,

[0:09:28] Voice 5: you'll have seen that approximately 17% of Salt Spring

[0:09:32] Voice 5: is in the ALR and about an equal amount is not in the ALR,

[0:09:39] Voice 5: but it either has farm status,

[0:09:42] Voice 5: so it's being actively farmed

[0:09:44] Voice 5: or it's zoned to permit agriculture.

[0:09:47] Voice 5: And I think those are really important points

[0:09:49] Voice 5: to keep in mind because we have a lot of concern

[0:09:52] Voice 5: about the risk of people not involved in agriculture

[0:09:59] Voice 5: looking just at the ALR and forgetting

[0:10:02] Voice 5: that there's as much farmland outside the ALR

[0:10:05] Voice 5: as there is in it.

[0:10:09] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, that's a very good point

[0:10:12] Trustee Luckham: that we should always keep top of mind.

[0:10:17] Trustee Luckham: Anybody else or trustees, any remarks?

[0:10:22] Voice 8: No,

[0:10:22] Trustee Luckham: okay, so then we didn't allocate much time

[0:10:26] Trustee Luckham: for this on the agenda but there it is and certainly it's a valuable uh compilation of

[0:10:32] Trustee Luckham: information for um our consideration as we move forward so the next item then on our agenda is um

[0:10:39] Trustee Luckham: uh you know there's a couple of there's a couple elements to this because it's a business item for

[0:10:44] Trustee Luckham: the local trust committee to determine um some recommendations from staff as an outcome from

[0:10:50] Trustee Luckham: from, well, I'm actually going to just simply let Christine Mays, Planner Mays, introduce this

[0:10:57] Trustee Luckham: because she will articulate that so much better than I. But draft bylaw number 526 is just changes

[0:11:04] Trustee Luckham: to residential permissions in the ALR and bylaw amendment options for dwelling on large farms.

[0:11:10] Trustee Luckham: So over to you, Christine Mays. Thank you.

[0:11:14] Planner Mayes: Well, certainly, it sounded like you guys

[0:11:16] Planner Mayes: touched on this topic just briefly in the last item um but just a little introduction you know

[0:11:23] Planner Mayes: the staff report is proposing amendments to the seltzer and land use bylaw 355 and that's in

[0:11:29] Planner Mayes: consideration of announced changes to the agricultural land commission residential

[0:11:32] Planner Mayes: permissions and that's within the alr the staff report is also bringing forward some complementary

[0:11:39] Planner Mayes: amendments to section 3.17 of the land use bylaw which proposed to utilize subdivision potential

[0:11:46] Planner Mayes: for farm worker housing and so these drafted bylaw amendments are being presented for consideration

[0:11:52] Planner Mayes: by the local trust committee at this meeting and that's in consultation with the group here so

[0:11:58] Planner Mayes: the agricultural advisory planning commission and salt spring agricultural alliance

[0:12:03] Planner Mayes: and staff are recommending that the Local Trust Committee amend the draft by-law to include both

[0:12:10] Planner Mayes: that residential flexibility on ALR lands as well as options for dwellings on large farms which are

[0:12:15] Planner Mayes: outside the ALR and to refer those amended that amended draft by-law to agencies and organizations

[0:12:22] Planner Mayes: so just some information regarding the report it explores various issues and opportunities

[0:12:27] Planner Mayes: which includes Salt Spring and Local Trust Committee top priorities,

[0:12:31] Planner Mayes: recommendations of the Agricultural Advisory Planning Commission,

[0:12:34] Planner Mayes: recommendations of our Housing Action Program Task Force,

[0:12:37] Planner Mayes: as well as options to amend the Land Use By-law, and that's section 3.17.

[0:12:42] Planner Mayes: So here is that provision that's being proposed or that's being asked to be put into that draft for consideration today.

[0:12:52] Planner Mayes: and the staff report that was associated with this application was included as an appendices

[0:12:57] Planner Mayes: on that staff report so the recommendations are here so staff are noting that the official

[0:13:06] Planner Mayes: community plan policies and objectives are generally supportive of those draft amendments

[0:13:10] Planner Mayes: and additionally that draft land use bylaw amendment may address in part the recommendations

[0:13:15] Planner Mayes: of the Salt Spring Area Farm Plan renewal,

[0:13:18] Planner Mayes: which is the 2020 to 2030 edition,

[0:13:21] Planner Mayes: principally strategy 3.2,

[0:13:23] Planner Mayes: of which 3.2.3 recommends that there's consideration

[0:13:29] Planner Mayes: of increased availability of farm worker housing

[0:13:31] Planner Mayes: to keep new farmers in skilled labor.

[0:13:34] Planner Mayes: It should also be noted that as drafted,

[0:13:36] Planner Mayes: you know, the intent was to have some flexibility

[0:13:40] Planner Mayes: for farmers or ALR land owners

[0:13:42] Planner Mayes: for the use of these additional dwellings

[0:13:44] Planner Mayes: as either farm work or housing or full-time rental units.

[0:13:48] Planner Mayes: Inclusion of an amendment for the Land Use By-law Section 317,

[0:13:52] Planner Mayes: which is that dwellings of large farms that was in the previous slide,

[0:13:56] Planner Mayes: is considered to potentially streamline the by-law drafting and legislative process

[0:14:01] Planner Mayes: to further address options for farm work or housing on non-agricultural lands with farm status,

[0:14:06] Planner Mayes: and that's to utilize subdivision potential.

[0:14:08] Planner Mayes: So staff are certainly also recommending that referral to various agencies and organizations that are targeted for agricultural considerations, including back to these two groups here for written comment.

[0:14:24] Planner Mayes: And that's to help identify issues, concerns and support. So I'm happy to discuss any questions you might have and look forward to your conversation.

[0:14:32] Planner Mayes: Thank

[0:14:34] Trustee Luckham: you very much, Planner Mays. So, ostensibly, this staff report is here for the LTC in support of the recommendations that are contained in that report, but I presume that there's interest from the AAPC and the Ag Alliance members that are here with us today,

[0:14:58] Trustee Luckham: but I'd like to start the conversation with the trustees.

[0:15:01] Trustee Luckham: And then if there's interest from the trustees

[0:15:04] Trustee Luckham: as a formality to hear from the members

[0:15:06] Trustee Luckham: of the advisory bodies,

[0:15:10] Trustee Luckham: then happy to support that as well.

[0:15:13] Trustee Luckham: So trustees, questions for staff

[0:15:16] Trustee Luckham: or remarks on the report and the recommendations.

[0:15:21] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Grove.

[0:15:25] Trustee Luckham: You'll need to turn your microphone on somehow.

[0:15:28] Trustee Luckham: I don't see you muted, but we're not hearing you.

[0:15:32] Voice 8: Oh, there was a little tiny echo there. Nope. Nope. Can't hear you. I noticed you've got your

[0:15:44] Trustee Luckham: earplugs on. Is that right? The microphone is on your right-hand side there, perhaps,

[0:15:52] Trustee Luckham: and maybe that needs to be closer. Does

[0:15:54] Voice 8: that help? I've

[0:15:58] Trustee Grove: unplugged now. Does that help?

[0:15:59] Voice 8: Okay. That's much better.

[0:16:04] Trustee Grove: Sorry about that. I was wondering if Christine could kind of share

[0:16:07] Trustee Grove: her screen with the motions she's been reading to us, please.

[0:16:13] Planner Mayes: I sure can.

[0:16:14] Planner Mayes: I realized that I did not actually have my screen shared.

[0:16:17] Planner Mayes: So that was a little bit of an oversight there.

[0:16:21] Share screen.

[0:16:26] Planner Mayes: Can you see those slides now?

[0:16:30] Trustee Luckham: Yes, that has come up now.

[0:16:31] Trustee Luckham: Yep.

[0:16:32] Trustee Luckham: Yes.

[0:16:34] Voice 8: Sorry,

[0:16:34] Trustee Luckham: I didn't flag that.

[0:16:40] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so did you have any other questions

[0:16:43] Trustee Luckham: or remarks at this time?

[0:16:44] Trustee Luckham: Otherwise I'll go to Trustee Patrick.

[0:16:46] Trustee Grove: please do that's fine okay

[0:16:48] Trustee Luckham: trustee patrick i

[0:16:50] Trustee Patrick: was gonna say i apologize i have a men's choir

[0:16:52] Trustee Patrick: practicing downstairs uh refund my microphone open um i think i i really appreciate uh and

[0:16:59] Trustee Patrick: macy the comments that dan has uh shared and i think that might be a good good thing to

[0:17:05] Trustee Patrick: concentrate on right now okay

[0:17:09] Trustee Luckham: yeah that was the email from earlier today

[0:17:11] Trustee Luckham: so thank you Anne for that and did everybody get a copy of that yeah so Anne that's an opportunity

[0:17:20] Trustee Luckham: to turn it over to you to share your remarks there and thoughts further yes

[0:17:25] Voice 1: before we talk

[0:17:27] Voice 1: to this particular recommendation that's in front of us I just want to point out that

[0:17:31] Voice 1: we discussed this with the alliance group and people went back to member organizations we had

[0:17:39] Voice 1: quite a long discussion but it wasn't to this particular recommendation it was to the information

[0:17:44] Voice 1: that we had received before um so we hadn't seen this this new recommendation until this agenda

[0:17:55] Voice 1: was circulated at the beginning of the week so it does to some extent maybe address the concerns

[0:18:01] Voice 1: we've raised which is good but i think we might well have some other questions my first question

[0:18:08] Voice 1: question is I'm not quite sure I've been trying to follow the reports but I've I've got lost a bit

[0:18:16] Voice 1: in this is it is this one that's in front of us today in addition to the other changes that were

[0:18:25] Voice 1: made specifically regarding ALR and and because we did have a point about those whether were those

[0:18:36] Voice 1: changed at all and is this or does this replace all that is this the only change that's going to

[0:18:42] Voice 1: happen now i'm i'm got confused i'm sorry yeah

[0:18:46] Trustee Luckham: planner mays you want to answer that i sure can

[0:18:48] Planner Mayes: um so what this is is that that draft bylaw 526 which you've probably seen circulated um i'm not

[0:18:59] Planner Mayes: too sure i suppose only our apc has seen a copy of that as well as our housing action program

[0:19:05] Planner Mayes: task force. And so what this is, is it's that bylaw plus this. So staff are recommending that

[0:19:13] Planner Mayes: this be included in there so that we have one bylaw that's addressing farm worker housing sort

[0:19:21] Planner Mayes: of across the islands, across, you know, ALR and non-ALR properties.

[0:19:30] Voice 8: Yeah. So this is in addition

[0:19:31] Trustee Luckham: to the reporting that was done earlier.

[0:19:35] Trustee Luckham: So does that answer the question, Ann?

[0:19:37] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[0:19:39] Trustee Luckham: Anything further you'd like to say, Ann, at this time?

[0:19:44] Voice 1: Hand it over to Brian for some of our comments

[0:19:48] Voice 1: that we had.

[0:19:49] Voice 1: Thank you.

[0:19:50] Trustee Luckham: Okay, Brian, over to you then.

[0:19:53] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:19:56] Voice 5: Essentially what that means is that all of the points

[0:19:59] Voice 5: that are raised in the document

[0:20:03] Voice 5: that Anne circulated earlier today do still apply.

[0:20:09] Voice 5: There were seven of them and this additional amendment

[0:20:14] Voice 5: only deals with 20 hectare and larger

[0:20:20] Voice 5: if I understand correctly.

[0:20:22] Voice 5: No, is that not the case?

[0:20:26] Voice 5: the the additional uh recommendation deals just with 20 hectare and larger properties outside of

[0:20:34] Voice 5: the ale of the alr or am i mistaken yes

[0:20:37] Planner Mayes: so sorry i'll uh jump in there so so what it is it's it's

[0:20:41] Planner Mayes: a proposal to take the existing land use bylaw let me just fill that up so the current provision

[0:20:50] Planner Mayes: in the land use bylaw allows for up to three dwellings

[0:20:53] Planner Mayes: on parcels that are 20 hectares or more in the area

[0:20:57] Planner Mayes: that are classified as a farm under the assessment act.

[0:21:01] Planner Mayes: And so the possible draft bylaw amendment

[0:21:03] Planner Mayes: that's being proposed is that instead of basing it

[0:21:07] Planner Mayes: on a large 20 hectare parcel of which there aren't that many

[0:21:11] Planner Mayes: on Salt Spring Island, it is, I mean, there are some,

[0:21:15] Planner Mayes: it is instead utilizing subdivision potential

[0:21:18] Planner Mayes: potential to allow those dwelling units and so where for example a rule zone property where that

[0:21:26] Planner Mayes: subdivision potential is four hectares sorry for two hectares double that being four there's the

[0:21:33] Planner Mayes: potential for there to be a farm worker dwelling on perhaps a much smaller parcel than what's

[0:21:38] Planner Mayes: currently permitted okay

[0:21:44] Voice 5: so essentially though the the uh the seven points um that are raised

[0:21:50] Voice 5: in our document do apply most of what we said in those points deal with the specific

[0:21:59] Voice 5: recommendations that only relate to properties that are in the ALR and then I guess you might

[0:22:06] Voice 5: say at kind of a fundamental level we make the point that by not extending them equally to

[0:22:15] Voice 5: to land being actively farmed that is outside the ALR,

[0:22:20] Voice 5: that is problematic.

[0:22:22] Voice 5: And this recommended provision,

[0:22:24] Voice 5: while it potentially could result

[0:22:27] Voice 5: in some additional farm worker housing

[0:22:31] Voice 5: on some properties would not apply across the board,

[0:22:37] Voice 5: like the changes to properties within the ALR do.

[0:22:41] Voice 5: And so our basic point is that

[0:22:43] Voice 5: that if a lot is being actively farmed

[0:22:47] Voice 5: on Salt Spring Island, the recommendations for changes

[0:22:52] Voice 5: really should apply to that as well.

[0:22:55] Voice 5: At an overall level, I should say that,

[0:22:58] Voice 5: I think the general tenor of the discussion that we had

[0:23:01] Voice 5: was that this is positive and we appreciate the efforts

[0:23:05] Voice 5: by the trust and by trust staff to deal with,

[0:23:12] Voice 5: take advantage if you want to call it that, with the additional flexibilities that are being

[0:23:19] Voice 5: provided by the province. But I think it's fair to say overall, our sense of it is that it is

[0:23:29] Voice 5: overly cautious and overly restrictive in some ways. For example, the first of our seven points

[0:23:40] Voice 5: was that where a second housing unit is permitted,

[0:23:45] Voice 5: the way it's written right now,

[0:23:48] Voice 5: it would have to be occupied by full-time permanent,

[0:23:52] Voice 5: whatever that means, farm workers.

[0:23:54] Voice 5: And we're suggesting that a very significant opportunity

[0:23:59] Voice 5: to assist with the long-term viability of agriculture

[0:24:04] Voice 5: is missed if that second housing unit

[0:24:07] Voice 5: that also can't be occupied by a retired farmer looking in terms of succession planning where a

[0:24:16] Voice 5: retired farm family in a you know in a way that could really work well could move into a second

[0:24:25] Voice 5: dwelling on a farm with younger family members moving in to the principal residence and in that

[0:24:34] Voice 5: way being able to provide mentorship help on the farm and more than likely significant assistance

[0:24:43] Voice 5: with the cost of young families getting into farming and so essentially as it's written simply

[0:24:53] Voice 5: opening the definition up a little bit so that one we'd suggest dropping the word permanent because

[0:25:00] Voice 5: because how you define a permanent employee in agriculture,

[0:25:03] Voice 5: but really in any anywhere these days is pretty questionable.

[0:25:07] Voice 5: But secondly, specifically providing for the possibility that retired farm family members could live there.

[0:25:17] Voice 5: So that was that's the first one. And that's a key one.

[0:25:21] Voice 5: I don't know if you want me to go through all seven,

[0:25:23] Voice 5: but one of them does deal with the issue that I touched on first,

[0:25:27] Voice 5: First, which is if a property is deemed to being actively farmed, and we already seem to have some consensus that that should be a prerequisite for permitting additional housing on it,

[0:25:40] Voice 5: then that same prerequisite can be applied to a property that's not in the ALR just as easily as it can to one that is inside the ALR.

[0:25:50] Voice 5: In other words, if there's a test to whether or not the property is being actively farmed, then just apply that same test on a property not in the ALR to determine whether it should have the same eligibility or not.

[0:26:05] Voice 5: In that way, you would be certain that the changes would provide flexibility to support and assist agriculture, not simply contributing to somebody being able to add density and increase the value of their property.

[0:26:21] Voice 5: We share the concern of many people that addressing issues around housing on agricultural land should not be viewed as a way of increasing the housing supply in some large and significant way.

[0:26:39] Voice 5: That's not what agricultural land is for. As that inventory shows, it's only 17% of the island is in the ALR. And if you throw the rest of the actively farmed properties on salt spring into it and apply it equally to them, you're still less than a third of salt spring.

[0:26:57] Voice 5: So, you know, I think everybody in our discussion, at least, is on the same wavelength in terms of being really careful in applying this in a way that it is supporting the viability of local agriculture and not simply opening the doors to a whole bunch more housing units and all the issues that come around with that.

[0:27:20] Voice 5: So I won't work my way through all seven right now,

[0:27:24] Voice 5: unless he specifically asked me to,

[0:27:25] Voice 5: because I might be talking for too long,

[0:27:27] Voice 5: but that's at least the beginning.

[0:27:31] Voice 8: Well, thank you for that.

[0:27:33] Voice 8: That's

[0:27:33] Trustee Luckham: all very significant information.

[0:27:38] Trustee Luckham: Planner Mayes, do you want to respond in some respect

[0:27:41] Trustee Luckham: to the, I'm going to refer to it as the scope

[0:27:43] Trustee Luckham: of this particular amendment,

[0:27:45] Trustee Luckham: because I think we're responding to the changes

[0:27:48] Trustee Luckham: is to the agricultural act in a in a proactive way and certainly these other things are other

[0:27:55] Trustee Luckham: considerations that we should should consider and and maybe if there's a trustees would like to

[0:28:02] Trustee Luckham: speak to that as well but but i'll just give planner mace the opportunity to speak and then

[0:28:07] Trustee Luckham: i see trustee patrick sure

[0:28:09] Planner Mayes: and and certainly um uh speak to brian's point about um that

[0:28:14] Planner Mayes: multi-generational family concept um part of the intent of when this was drafted amongst staff was

[0:28:22] Planner Mayes: the inclusion of the full-time rental cottage allowance and so that permits that long-term

[0:28:30] Planner Mayes: use of that cottage sort of separate from there so so you could have you know two families

[0:28:36] Planner Mayes: is much like how you described in that combination in using d on on on that and then you know we've

[0:28:45] Planner Mayes: got of course the secondary suite as well which can be occupied by a family member and then you

[0:28:50] Planner Mayes: know there is a provision that mirrors uh the alc regulations regarding uh for lots that are

[0:28:56] Planner Mayes: greater than 40 hectares again you know can be fairly rare on on salt spring i think i've put

[0:29:03] Planner Mayes: together a small list of properties actually encompassing that 40 hectares and it's it's about

[0:29:09] Planner Mayes: a dozen maybe a little less um so so certainly you know this was meant to be as broad as possible in

[0:29:17] Planner Mayes: utilizing that and then seeking comment from multiple groups to see how we could whittle

[0:29:24] Planner Mayes: that down or amend it to to meet the agricultural uh community's desires and the ltc's desires

[0:29:38] Trustee Patrick: I didn't, you got cut off there, Peter, I assume you were saying me.

[0:29:43] Voice 8: Yeah, gotcha, go ahead.

[0:29:45] Trustee Patrick: Sorry, it could be mine.

[0:29:50] Trustee Patrick: My question, I get what you're saying, but I think I get what you're saying.

[0:29:53] Trustee Patrick: So I'm trying to make sure I understand what you're saying,

[0:29:55] Trustee Patrick: is that the new permissions that have been allowed through

[0:30:00] Trustee Patrick: the ALC that we're trying to address are currently being addressed only on the ALR

[0:30:08] Trustee Patrick: lands. And you're saying, could those permissions be extended to agricultural land outside the ALR?

[0:30:17] Trustee Patrick: That's so good. I did understand your question properly. So then my question to staff is,

[0:30:22] Trustee Patrick: is that possible? Is there anything preventing us from that?

[0:30:28] Planner Mayes: you know and certainly regional planning manager sermac can step in if he he has any thoughts uh

[0:30:35] Planner Mayes: but certainly your actions or your resolutions at your last meeting in order to look at accessory

[0:30:43] Planner Mayes: dwelling units and secondary suites i think may start to answer these sorts of questions

[0:30:50] Planner Mayes: uh it would require a by-law amendment and then that might ha add some complexity to this i

[0:30:56] Planner Mayes: I suppose. So in terms of Brian's comments about restricting it to very specific classifications

[0:31:03] Planner Mayes: of farmland, the challenges are, and we noted that up in the staff report for the land use

[0:31:11] Planner Mayes: bylaw 317 amendments, was that once it ceases to be used as farmland, it does make it a bit

[0:31:17] Planner Mayes: difficult to administer these sorts of regulations. Hence why there are some legislative processes

[0:31:25] Planner Mayes: that are sort of encompassed in that regulation,

[0:31:29] Planner Mayes: such as the covenant.

[0:31:30] Planner Mayes: And so the LTC holds the covenant.

[0:31:32] Planner Mayes: And then, so we can sort of ensure that use,

[0:31:36] Planner Mayes: you know, for longer period of time,

[0:31:39] Planner Mayes: whereas for the ALR, you know,

[0:31:41] Planner Mayes: it's been given some more flexibility, I suppose,

[0:31:44] Planner Mayes: than the 317 amendments, if that makes sense.

[0:32:02] Trustee Luckham: So I see Anne Macy and Brian Webster's hand up there.

[0:32:05] Trustee Luckham: Who would like to

[0:32:07] Voice 8: respond first?

[0:32:08] Voice 8: I

[0:32:13] Voice 1: just have a clarification, if I may.

[0:32:19] Voice 1: So the changes to the ALR rules allowed for additional dwellings

[0:32:30] Voice 1: as well as the secondary suite.

[0:32:35] Voice 1: In the text that I saw for Salt Spring,

[0:32:40] Voice 1: spring the secondary suite was still with an or it seems or or and I'm is that really does it mean

[0:32:50] Voice 1: if we have a secondary suite there can't be an additional dwelling or is there still an additional

[0:32:55] Voice 1: dwelling so

[0:32:57] Planner Mayes: it is or so you you did read that correctly and some of the rationale was utilizing

[0:33:03] Planner Mayes: that existing language that was already in the land use bylaw and certainly the the regulations

[0:33:09] Planner Mayes: do allow for a dwelling secondary suite contained within it and an accessory dwelling unit but this

[0:33:16] Planner Mayes: was more along the lines of what was already currently in place and also to um you know we've

[0:33:23] Planner Mayes: we've had a few discussions i guess with the ministry of agriculture on the alc and you know

[0:33:29] Planner Mayes: note that the local government uh can determine sort of how how restricted they wish to be

[0:33:35] Planner Mayes: um so whether you know the ltc wishes to consider three dwellings or or you know the the secondary

[0:33:42] Planner Mayes: suite dwelling and accessory dwelling unit you know is a consideration as well as um in terms

[0:33:47] Planner Mayes: of brian's previous comments you know it can be uh we could put a hectare limit on a property because

[0:33:55] Planner Mayes: i do realize that sometimes there are properties in the alar which are uh significantly smaller

[0:34:01] Planner Mayes: and don't necessarily have farm operations.

[0:34:04] Planner Mayes: Okay. Brian?

[0:34:13] Voice 5: Yeah, thank you.

[0:34:15] Voice 5: I guess our thinking was that the provisions that would need to be used

[0:34:23] Voice 5: to essentially to protect against that kind of housing being used

[0:34:29] Voice 5: for different purposes in the future, whether it's through a covenant

[0:34:32] Voice 5: or something else, can be used equally effectively regardless

[0:34:36] Voice 5: regardless of whether the property

[0:34:37] Voice 5: is within the agricultural land reserve or not.

[0:34:40] Voice 5: And that is why we think these provisions

[0:34:45] Voice 5: are most appropriately applied to all properties

[0:34:50] Voice 5: where it's legal to farm that are actively being farmed

[0:34:55] Voice 5: because you're not, at least staff is not recommending

[0:34:59] Voice 5: that this provision be opened up holus bolus

[0:35:03] Voice 5: to every property within the ALR

[0:35:05] Voice 5: As the report we talked about a short time ago indicates, 52% at that time of the ALR properties on Salt Spring were not being farmed.

[0:35:16] Voice 5: They were being used residentially.

[0:35:18] Voice 5: Those properties, because they're not being actively farmed, would not be eligible for these additional housing units, and that's within the ALR.

[0:35:28] Voice 5: Likewise, what we're requesting is that similar flexibility be provided to the actively farmed properties outside the ALR with similar mechanisms for making sure it's not abused or doesn't result in a massive increase in housing or anything like that.

[0:35:49] Voice 5: The combination of requiring that the property is being actively farmed using a mechanism such as farm status to determine it,

[0:36:02] Voice 5: that combined with a mechanism that requires that the housing continue in the future to be used for farm workers or retired family members

[0:36:16] Voice 5: would protect against it being abused or resulting in a very large number of housing units or

[0:36:25] Voice 5: something like that actually taking place. So that's why we would suggest they should be

[0:36:34] Voice 5: extended in that way. On the issue of the rental cottage, I believe the AAPC had concerns that if

[0:36:43] Voice 5: If it was simply a permitted rental cottage, then that could be rented to anybody.

[0:36:48] Voice 5: It's not necessarily farm worker housing.

[0:36:50] Voice 5: housing. Whereas if the rental cottage wasn't permitted, but instead the second housing unit

[0:37:01] Voice 5: was with the restrictions that it be occupied by full-time farm workers or retired family members,

[0:37:10] Voice 5: then we get the benefit to agriculture without the risk of it essentially just being used to

[0:37:17] Voice 5: to add housing units and potentially even reducing the potential for agriculture to be enhanced.

[0:37:27] Voice 5: We're really interested in these changes happening in ways that have minimal impact

[0:37:31] Voice 5: on the ability to farm the land. And so that's why the ability to have the second housing unit,

[0:37:38] Voice 5: but also the secondary suite in the principal residence is really appealing because it doesn't

[0:37:46] Voice 5: involve additional land being being used for that purpose we're really sensitive on that point and

[0:37:55] Voice 5: that's why another one of our seven points deals with explicitly permitting the second housing unit

[0:38:03] Voice 5: to be in an accessory building so it could be an equipment building it could be a processing

[0:38:07] Voice 5: building you know it could be an apartment above i have a cidery you could potentially if we could

[0:38:13] Voice 5: ever afford to do it, build a building where the fermentation takes place with a little apartment

[0:38:18] Voice 5: unit above it, which would count as that second housing unit if it was permitted. We're suggesting

[0:38:25] Voice 5: those kind of flexibilities to minimize the impact on the agricultural land while providing the

[0:38:32] Voice 5: benefit of additional housing for farm workers.

[0:38:37] Trustee Luckham: Very good. Thank you, Brian. Trustee Grove.

[0:38:41] Trustee Grove: Brian actually answered my question. It was with regard to farm status. I mean,

[0:38:45] Trustee Grove: I mean, what makes me nervous about this whole thing is, are you hearing me now?

[0:38:52] Voice 8: Yeah, we can hear you.

[0:38:53] Trustee Grove: Okay, sorry, I was worried about my setup, yeah.

[0:38:57] Trustee Grove: Is it enforceability and the coming and going of farm status?

[0:39:01] Trustee Grove: Because farm status isn't for always.

[0:39:04] Trustee Grove: You've got to keep proving yourself, I guess.

[0:39:07] Trustee Grove: And I just don't know how that can work.

[0:39:14] Voice 8: Yeah, that certainly adds a complication,

[0:39:17] Trustee Luckham: that's for sure.

[0:39:17] Trustee Luckham: Dr. Bannon-Mays, just seeking some clarity on where we're going here.

[0:39:23] Trustee Luckham: Obviously, we've received that document from Anne, and there's the seven points that Brian speaks about.

[0:39:30] Trustee Luckham: And I'm not sure at what point you've seen that information or whether it was the same time that we did

[0:39:37] Trustee Luckham: and whether or not that might be what the potential is for including or expanding the work that you've presented to us

[0:39:45] Trustee Luckham: in terms of the recommendation or whether we should advance this recommendation at this time

[0:39:51] Trustee Luckham: and obviously we'll be going out to referral again and then pick up some more of these

[0:39:56] Trustee Luckham: opportunities in this overall amendment of the bylaw. I'm interested in how we might structure

[0:40:04] Trustee Luckham: this going forward.

[0:40:06] Planner Mayes: Wonderful question and so certainly that is why the recommendation has

[0:40:10] Planner Mayes: been structured as such um what this is is we're not um or staff haven't recommended first reading

[0:40:18] Planner Mayes: and this is exactly the reason no we're not doing that is because we would like to hear from the

[0:40:24] Planner Mayes: agricultural community what sort of changes they want to see and we'd like to incorporate that

[0:40:29] Planner Mayes: before we bring that to the ltc for first reading and so this is an opportunity to include section

[0:40:35] Planner Mayes: section 3.17 in the current draft bylaw in its form,

[0:40:39] Planner Mayes: and then also send officially to those referral agencies.

[0:40:43] Planner Mayes: So, you know, understanding that we've recommended

[0:40:46] Planner Mayes: the adding of that provision

[0:40:48] Planner Mayes: that the Agricultural Alliance hasn't quite seen.

[0:40:51] Planner Mayes: And so they may wish to update their comments.

[0:40:55] Planner Mayes: We're also suggesting it return

[0:40:56] Planner Mayes: to the Agricultural Advisory Planning Commission

[0:40:59] Planner Mayes: at their request, as they felt like they wanted

[0:41:02] Planner Mayes: wanted to have another look at it as well.

[0:41:05] Planner Mayes: You know, there are some members here as well.

[0:41:07] Planner Mayes: So certainly that's an opportunity for us to be able

[0:41:10] Planner Mayes: to bring back a lot of those issues

[0:41:13] Planner Mayes: in the form of a staff report and concerns and comments.

[0:41:19] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you for that Planner Mays, that's terrific.

[0:41:22] Trustee Luckham: So yeah, this is an additional amendment.

[0:41:25] Trustee Luckham: There'll be an additional referral prior

[0:41:28] Trustee Luckham: to any kind of first reading.

[0:41:30] Trustee Luckham: And then the opportunity exists for us to include additional amendments, as you've indicated, to make this more effective going forward. And, you know, some of those may be easy and some of them may not be, but it certainly sounds like a good positive direction overall in the conversation and the recommendations that you brought forward to us.

[0:41:55] Trustee Luckham: um any any other thoughts at this time um or discussion on this um i i'm guessing that there's

[0:42:05] Trustee Luckham: no uh objections at this time from the members on the call here today to us making the amendments

[0:42:11] Trustee Luckham: that are proposed here um and then i think it's clear that we're open to considering further

[0:42:16] Trustee Luckham: amendments before we advance it uh significantly is that correct planner maze yep okay that's right

[0:42:25] Planner Mayes: and i see stefan's popped up and with his hands so and zach as well okay

[0:42:30] Trustee Luckham: so let's get some uh

[0:42:31] Trustee Luckham: further staff clarity to be uh uh sure on how we're advancing here and then i'll come to you

[0:42:36] Trustee Luckham: zach thank you uh

[0:42:39] Voice 4: thank you mr chair so i'm not gonna add i think you've got the situation down

[0:42:43] Voice 4: well about you know the proposed it's kind of a go slow to make sure we get the feedback correct

[0:42:48] Voice 4: i think um you know just receiving this comment uh in written form thank you ann and brian for

[0:42:55] Voice 4: for elaborating, you know, it's very helpful.

[0:42:59] Voice 4: The LTC did pass a resolution

[0:43:02] Voice 4: at their last regular business meeting

[0:43:05] Voice 4: about requesting staff to draft by-law amendments

[0:43:09] Voice 4: that would allow for secondary suite, or pardon me,

[0:43:12] Voice 4: allowing for accessory dwelling units,

[0:43:15] Voice 4: including secondary suites in all potential zones.

[0:43:19] Voice 4: And so Brian, part of that would,

[0:43:22] Voice 4: of course, the majority of zoning on the island is rural, which allows agricultural,

[0:43:27] Voice 4: which would include your active farms in those zones. So I think you put up an interesting

[0:43:32] Voice 4: question in my mind. I fully support, you know, I think staff can go forward and work on the

[0:43:37] Voice 4: drafts as you have recommended and as Anne has written down for us. My question would be,

[0:43:44] Voice 4: with the LTC's resolution looking at sort of a real blanket approach to allow secondary suites

[0:43:50] Voice 4: and or another accessory dwelling unit on the property as you've recommended either in a

[0:43:55] Voice 4: cottage or above an accessory building would how would the agriculture community feel

[0:44:01] Voice 4: about that sort of blanket approach I guess what I'm asking is would you not support that like

[0:44:08] Voice 4: I guess if agriculture is allowed everywhere in the rural zone and what I'm hearing from you

[0:44:13] Voice 4: saying that you want a secondary suite and accessory dwelling unit on land that's being

[0:44:18] Voice 4: being farmed but that blanket approach would be applied to the rest of the rural area as well

[0:44:22] Voice 4: so would you feel comfortable being caught up in that blanket approach for all the other rural

[0:44:27] Voice 4: zones are you following my drift so I'm just wondering in other words I guess do we make

[0:44:32] Voice 4: the amendments here or do we make it there because we're kind of you're out of the gate first and

[0:44:38] Voice 4: this is the question I guess for the LTC to ponder and staff can write a report about it and

[0:44:42] Voice 4: make recommendations it's sort of what comes first do we do the ALR first and do this large

[0:44:48] Voice 4: farm amendment first and let that move forward and get somewhere and then allow the housing

[0:44:53] Voice 4: bylaws that are changing and it's a bigger scope project to come afterwards so if you see what i'm

[0:44:59] Voice 4: talking about so we have this bigger project with those issues coming and we have direction from the

[0:45:04] Voice 4: ltc already to look at accessory dwelling units as a blanket approach they kind of took the gloves

[0:45:10] Voice 4: off saying it has to be in a cottage or has to be secondary suite they just said look at accessory

[0:45:15] Voice 4: redwelling units, whatever they may be. So I'm curious what this group would comment on that.

[0:45:20] Voice 4: But of course, I'm not controlling the meeting. So I'll let the chair decide to control that

[0:45:24] Voice 4: discussion or not.

[0:45:26] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you, Stefan. Yeah, that's a very good point. There are these other

[0:45:30] Trustee Luckham: changes afoot, which may not come as a referral to the AAPC. Likely, given this conversation,

[0:45:38] Trustee Luckham: we might include you in that referral process when we're discussing those broader sweeping

[0:45:45] Trustee Luckham: sweeping housing potential changes that they have come to us as a recommendation from the

[0:45:51] Trustee Luckham: housing task force. And so, yeah, any remarks? Let's go to Zach. He had his hand up and then

[0:45:59] Trustee Luckham: I see Trustee Patrick has a hand up.

[0:46:03] Voice 2: Great. Thanks. I can actually, what Stefan said is

[0:46:07] Voice 2: kind of speaks to an unpopular, maybe in this moment, opinion that I have of farm status being

[0:46:15] Voice 2: not enough of a metric. It is a flawed metric for measurement. So I have a lot of concerns about

[0:46:23] Voice 2: the ability to stay enforcing as rural small properties change hands, as farms that are just

[0:46:33] Voice 2: farming to the minimum of farm status, being essentially allowed to avoid taxes on a new

[0:46:43] Voice 2: new dwelling that is you know going to greatly benefit those those I have concerns about

[0:46:49] Voice 2: managing that and I'm maybe I'm a little out of the loop here it's been a while since I've been

[0:46:53] Voice 2: engaging in this process but when I when I saw that and now what Stefania said about

[0:46:58] Voice 2: it being in its own wheelhouse of dealing with that instead of the rural zoning being

[0:47:05] Voice 2: lumped in with this that seems smarter in some ways to me I know this maybe isn't the place

[0:47:12] Voice 2: and I'm happy that it will be coming back to the AAPC, but just wanted to express my concern that

[0:47:17] Voice 2: it seems there would be no way to keep on top of that if you allow a lot of new densities on

[0:47:25] Voice 2: land that is being farmed. That changes very quickly with non-production-oriented farms.

[0:47:34] Voice 2: I guess that's all really okay

[0:47:39] Trustee Luckham: Zach really thank you for raising that because I think

[0:47:42] Trustee Luckham: you know despite your remarks that it may not be a popular point of view I think there are

[0:47:47] Trustee Luckham: challenges that we have to consider with respect to that so yeah thank you for that

[0:47:54] Trustee Luckham: Dusty Patrick yeah

[0:47:57] Trustee Patrick: no thanks Zach that right it does drive me crazy you know it's like when

[0:48:01] Trustee Patrick: and we pay our taxes, and then I see, you know, a neighbor who's doing, I wouldn't call it farming,

[0:48:09] Trustee Patrick: you know, not having to pay taxes. It's infuriating. It's like, yeah, the system is,

[0:48:16] Trustee Patrick: we need to fix lots, go after that province. So my question on your idea, Stefan, so

[0:48:26] Trustee Patrick: So, the broader accessory building bylaws that, you know, will be becoming this project there may likely have a requirement for a housing agreement so that we know that that housing that's being created is being created, you know, not for Airbnbs or other uses that it's actually being directed toward housing islanders.

[0:48:56] Trustee Patrick: Is a housing agreement also work for bona fide farming? Is that an instrument that would work in that way too?

[0:49:11] Voice 4: Sure, to the chair. It's challenging to regulate use or users, right?

[0:49:18] Voice 4: So when we start making housing just for farm worker dwelling, we're kind of on the edge of a bit of a knife.

[0:49:24] Voice 4: So we, you know, it's been an accepted practice in other places, but we can't regulate it generally we can't regulate people we can only regulate uses. So, when we start saying a house is only for this person we're kind of getting into a bit of a gray mucky area.

[0:49:42] Voice 4: So a housing agreement, however, can. And so the housing agreement is generally the, you know, according to the legislation, the preferred, actually the only legal way to regulate people as opposed to uses.

[0:49:56] Voice 4: And so that's why we can start discriminating, to be honest, about economic status or people's backgrounds or perhaps, you know, worker status.

[0:50:05] Voice 4: so that's the preferred legislative tool but however we have distinguished in other bylaws

[0:50:12] Voice 4: farm worker housing as something unique and we haven't been challenged in the court but it is

[0:50:18] Voice 4: I would you know I think the ALC has made that it's in their act and their regulations and so

[0:50:25] Voice 4: we can feel comfortable going there but going outside it gets a little murky and hence I would

[0:50:30] Voice 4: recommend that housing agreements be the the best way to do that however administering covenants is

[0:50:37] Voice 4: challenging. So to say the least, and where I don't mind saying that we're really poor at

[0:50:42] Voice 4: following up and monitoring. So it's an icky tool. That's my professional term.

[0:50:48] Trustee Luckham: Well, a shortage of resources makes it challenging. Let's just say that. So

[0:50:53] Trustee Luckham: that's good. Teresa, did I see your hand go up there?

[0:50:56] Voice 6: I was wondering if I should have put up my hand. I just wanted to bring up a point and it's

[0:51:01] Voice 6: something that um is always on my mind is once we have a blank approval of housing on agricultural

[0:51:09] Voice 6: land or rural land um people start investing in housing and it increases the value of the land

[0:51:18] Voice 6: or the infrastructure on the land i call it the capitalization of farmland and it puts it out of

[0:51:26] Voice 6: of the out of the realm of new farmers buying land when you have all this infrastructure and

[0:51:31] Voice 6: housing and secondary buildings then new farmers are less likely ever to be able to purchase that

[0:51:39] Voice 6: land so we have to be careful about a blank approval which is why only approving housing

[0:51:47] Voice 6: for farm workers and for legitimate farmers are actively farmed land is more desirable

[0:51:52] Voice 6: comparable rather than letting everybody in the ALR, and it's mostly non-farmers that live in the

[0:51:58] Voice 6: ALR or own ALR, be able to put in housing because that housing, that land becomes more at risk of

[0:52:06] Voice 6: never being farmed. So we have to think about that. We have to think about the long term

[0:52:11] Voice 6: and the cost of land for farming.

[0:52:17] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you, Teresa, for reminding us of that important

[0:52:21] Trustee Luckham: important message as well.

[0:52:22] Trustee Luckham: I'm looking at the time here and thinking,

[0:52:26] Trustee Luckham: I think we're allocated only an hour

[0:52:28] Trustee Luckham: to our meeting here today and wonder whether

[0:52:32] Trustee Luckham: the trustees want to entertain

[0:52:33] Trustee Luckham: into advancing the recommendations

[0:52:35] Trustee Luckham: that were brought to us in this report.

[0:52:38] Trustee Luckham: And then we'll have this come back to us at a later date.

[0:52:41] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Patrick.

[0:52:42] Trustee Patrick: Well, I'd like to hear from anyone on the call today,

[0:52:47] Trustee Patrick: how they feel about us moving this forward

[0:52:50] Trustee Patrick: for a formal referral are with with are you comfortable receiving it at this time or

[0:52:56] Trustee Patrick: anybody

[0:53:00] Trustee Luckham: doesn't want to receive it i see brian webster's hand up yeah

[0:53:06] Voice 5: well i was uh partly

[0:53:07] Voice 5: intending to respond to trustee grove and and zach's comments uh simply to say that in our

[0:53:14] Voice 5: discussions we never saw that farm status by itself should be you know sort of the the lucky

[0:53:22] Voice 5: bingo call that allows you to add a house on your property that there need to be additional

[0:53:27] Voice 5: mechanisms and this is why we were quite pleased i think it's fair to say with uh how staff were

[0:53:33] Voice 5: approaching it in the sense that there was a uh an attempt even though the mechanisms can be a

[0:53:39] Voice 5: little bit challenging but an attempt to uh make clear that we're talking about housing for farm

[0:53:45] Voice 5: workers and we hope for retired family members as well and that a mechanism whether it's a housing

[0:53:51] Voice 5: agreement or some other tool that we may not be aware of would be a way to make sure that

[0:53:57] Voice 5: continued to be the case. So farm status, yes, it's a useful tool, but it's a very simple course

[0:54:04] Voice 5: instrument by itself. And somebody who is just trying to play a trick essentially,

[0:54:13] Voice 5: and they just managed to make their $2,500, someone like that might think that, great,

[0:54:20] Voice 5: great, now I can build a second house, but they're going to have to enter into an agreement that

[0:54:26] Voice 5: specifies who can live in that house. And all of a sudden, if they are looking for an Airbnb or

[0:54:31] Voice 5: just another way to increase the value of the property or their revenue, they're going to find

[0:54:37] Voice 5: the only way they can do that would be to actually legitimately start using their property

[0:54:42] Voice 5: property more intensively, which is what requires the full-time staff. And then, you know, I mean,

[0:54:50] Voice 5: I think this tool, if what the staff was working on included the recommendations that we brought

[0:54:59] Voice 5: forward, potentially on the margins, we could actually be adding some properties that are

[0:55:06] Voice 5: currently, whether they're in the ALR or not, or just kind of, you know, on the verge of being

[0:55:12] Voice 5: farms, but not really, it would provide them incentive to do so because they'd have a place

[0:55:20] Voice 5: for staff to live, which is a real challenge for many of us. And they might think just what

[0:55:29] Voice 5: we've just been talking about, that down the road, their agricultural property actually will have a

[0:55:35] Voice 5: a little bit more value if it has another housing unit.

[0:55:37] Voice 5: On that point, one partial counter point

[0:55:42] Voice 5: to the concern that Teresa raised is that yes,

[0:55:46] Voice 5: the value of a property may go up

[0:55:48] Voice 5: with a second housing unit there,

[0:55:50] Voice 5: but I know speaking from my own experience

[0:55:53] Voice 5: from 10 years ago and looking for properties,

[0:55:55] Voice 5: that the potential of a property to have more housing

[0:56:00] Voice 5: also inherently made it more affordable

[0:56:03] Voice 5: because your staff will pay rent to live there,

[0:56:08] Voice 5: either that or it's reflected in a lower wage.

[0:56:12] Voice 5: And so it makes it more viable for you to farm on your property

[0:56:16] Voice 5: when your staff can live on it

[0:56:17] Voice 5: because they might be paying you $700 or $800 a month

[0:56:20] Voice 5: to be able to live on your farm.

[0:56:23] Voice 5: And that's money that can go toward your mortgage

[0:56:25] Voice 5: that makes it more feasible for you to buy that property and farm it.

[0:56:32] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, the equation is complex.

[0:56:36] Trustee Luckham: So, I haven't seen any hands jump up or any opposition to us advancing this amendment

[0:56:42] Trustee Luckham: to then refer it out to you for further recommendations.

[0:56:48] Trustee Luckham: So, do the trustees feel that this would be an appropriate time to advance that?

[0:56:53] Trustee Luckham: No pressure.

[0:56:54] Trustee Grove: I would think so, but just confirmation that everyone else is comfortable with us moving

[0:57:00] Trustee Grove: it forward.

[0:57:06] Voice 8: Anne, you'll have to turn your microphone on.

[0:57:12] Voice 8: yes

[0:57:14] Voice 1: i think we can move it forward but i would like to request that um all the changes are sort

[0:57:23] Voice 1: of put together so we can understand it better because i think we had the previous changes and

[0:57:28] Voice 1: then we've added this one so somehow rather than just putting this forward can we put the whole

[0:57:34] Voice 1: package together about the changes in one piece so that we can follow it better i

[0:57:41] Trustee Luckham: anticipate that

[0:57:42] Trustee Luckham: that is what would happen.

[0:57:43] Trustee Luckham: But Planner Mayes, can you confirm that?

[0:57:45] Planner Mayes: Indeed, that is correct.

[0:57:47] Planner Mayes: So it will amend that file, that draft by-law,

[0:57:50] Planner Mayes: and then you'll get an official referral form

[0:57:53] Planner Mayes: from our legislative clerk.

[0:57:54] Planner Mayes: And that'll have both what you saw in the draft by-law

[0:57:58] Planner Mayes: as well as that potential or draft amendment for 3.17.

[0:58:04] Voice 8: Okay, good, thank you.

[0:58:06] Voice 8: Trustees?

[0:58:10] Voice 8: Shall

[0:58:10] Trustee Patrick: I proceed with the motion?

[0:58:14] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[0:58:14] Trustee Patrick: All right. I move that the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee amend draft bylaw number 526 by inserting clause 2.3 by replacing section 3.17, dwellings on large farms, with the following 3.17.

[0:58:30] Trustee Patrick: You want me to read that all out, huh?

[0:58:33] Trustee Luckham: For the audience at home, they would appreciate it.

[0:58:36] Trustee Patrick: Okay. Despite other provisions of this bylaw where agriculture is permitted, principal use on a lot not in agricultural zone and complies with Section 3.5 and subsection and servicing requirements of Part 9 of this bylaw, additional farm workers dwelling units not exceeding 186 square meters corresponding to the subdivision potential of a lot may be constructed and occupied where a lot is classified as a farm under the

[0:59:06] Trustee Patrick: Assessment Act. If the owner grants to the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee a covenant

[0:59:12] Trustee Patrick: under the Land Title Act restricting use of the farm workers' dwelling units and prohibiting

[0:59:17] Trustee Patrick: further subdivision of the lot. Information note, applicants should be consistent with the

[0:59:24] Trustee Patrick: guidelines in H.213 of the Salt Spring Island Official Community Plan. That, oh, that's another

[0:59:31] Trustee Patrick: motion okay

[0:59:32] Trustee Luckham: so we've got uh that move thank you trustee patrick for that and a second by trustee

[0:59:38] Trustee Luckham: grove um any further discussion from the local trust committee on this no i'm very i'll just

[0:59:47] Trustee Luckham: comment i'm very appreciative of us having this broader conversation with the with the

[0:59:53] Trustee Luckham: agricultural community here it certainly um adds a different perspective to how we're developing

[1:00:00] Trustee Luckham: our work. So appreciate this opportunity. So I'm going to call the vote. I just

[1:00:04] Trustee Patrick: wanted to comment

[1:00:06] Trustee Patrick: too that we truly want to hear, this is a chance where we're engaging with you openly and want to

[1:00:14] Trustee Patrick: hear your comments because I want this bylaw to work. The other aspect that's important to me as

[1:00:20] Trustee Patrick: you're considering these referrals is how do we measure success? How do we monitor this and make

[1:00:28] Trustee Patrick: make sure it's working the way it was intended to work so that you know we don't don't just walk

[1:00:33] Trustee Patrick: away and leave it untouched so i just challenge you to give some thought to that as we as we go

[1:00:40] Trustee Patrick: forward okay

[1:00:45] Voice 8: so i'm going to call the vote all

[1:00:47] Trustee Luckham: those in favor and that carries unanimously

[1:00:51] Trustee Luckham: thank you very much and uh trustee grove you want to take the second one yes

[1:00:55] Trustee Grove: i will move

[1:00:55] Trustee Grove: you hearing me all right i'll move the salt spring island local trust committee request

[1:01:00] Trustee Grove: request staff refer draft bylaw number 526

[1:01:04] Trustee Grove: as amended to agencies and organizations

[1:01:07] Trustee Grove: as identified in this staff report dated November 18, 2021.

[1:01:11] Trustee Luckham: Moved, seconded by Trustee Patrick.

[1:01:13] Trustee Luckham: Any discussion?

[1:01:15] Trustee Luckham: No, all those in favor?

[1:01:17] Trustee Luckham: So that carries unanimously also.

[1:01:20] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much.

[1:01:22] Trustee Luckham: So at just a few minutes after five here today,

[1:01:25] Trustee Luckham: is there any further business or remarks

[1:01:28] Trustee Luckham: with respect to this meeting?

[1:01:30] Trustee Luckham: or further work?

[1:01:34] Trustee Luckham: No.

[1:01:34] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:01:35] Trustee Luckham: Well, I want to really honestly thank you all for joining us today

[1:01:38] Trustee Luckham: and helping us with this important work.

[1:01:40] Trustee Luckham: And I think as Justice Patrick has said, that we want this to work

[1:01:45] Trustee Luckham: and that this is definitely a path to success.

[1:01:48] Trustee Luckham: And that's great.

[1:01:50] Trustee Luckham: So I want to thank all the staff here today as well that's been playing

[1:01:53] Trustee Luckham: a supportive role and we'll look forward to seeing the next revision of this.

[1:01:57] Trustee Luckham: So I wish everybody a good evening and be safe out there.

[1:01:59] Trustee Luckham: There's a little bit more rain today.

[1:02:01] Trustee Luckham: day, so we're not out of the flood zone yet, and so be

[1:02:04] Voice 8: careful, everybody. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thanks.

Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting Minutes ADOPTED  1 
November 18, 2021 
  
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee 
Minutes of a Special Meeting 
 
Date: Thursday, November 18, 2021 
  
Location: Electronic Meeting 
200-1627 Fort Street, Victoria 
  
Members Present: Peter Luckham, Chair  
Laura Patrick, Local Trustee 
Peter Grove, Local Trustee 
 
Staff Present: 
 
 
 
 
 
Others Present: 
 
 
Stefan Cermak, Regional Planning Manager (RPM) 
Geordie Gordon, Planner 2 
Kristine Mayes, Planner 1 
Rob Pingle, Planning Team Assistant 
Sarah Shugar, Recorder  
 
Bradley Dammsgard, Agricultural Alliance 
Theresa Duynstee, Agricultural Alliance 
Zack Hemstreet, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee  
Anne Macey, Agricultural Alliance 
Conrad Pilon, Agricultural Advisory Planning Committee  
Brian Webster, Agricultural Alliance 
  
 
These minutes follow the order of the agenda although the sequence may have varied.  
 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
  
Chair Luckham called the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m. and welcomed everyone to an electronic 
meeting of the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee. Chair Luckham introduced himself, the 
Trustees, staff and attendees and humbly stated gratitude to live and work in Coast Salish First 
Nations treaty and traditional territory. Chair Luckham acknowledged the recent flooding events. 
 
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 
 
 By general consent the agenda was approved. 
 
3. BUSINESS ITEMS 
 
 3.1   Local Trust Committee Chair's Welcome and Opening Remarks  
 

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting Minutes ADOPTED  2 
November 18, 2021 
  
 Chair Luckham advised this meeting is an opportunity for the  Salt Spring Island Local Trust 
Committee  to  have  a  discussion  with  the  members  of  the  Salt  Spring  Island  Agricultural 
Advisory  Planning  Commission  (AAPC)  and  representatives  of  the  Salt  Spring Island (SSI) 
Agricultural Alliance on agriculture related issues.  
 
3.2   Minutes from the July 15, 2021 Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee and Agricultural 
Advisory Planning Commission Meeting 
 
 The minutes of  the  July  15,  2021  Salt  Spring  Island  Local  Trust  Committee  Special  meeting 
were received. 
 
 3.3  Salt Spring Island Land Use Inventory Report and Map 
 
The Agricultural Land Use Inventory for Salt Spring Island dated September 2017 and maps 
entitled “Salt Spring Island Agricultural Land Use Inventory 2017” were presented.  
 
In discussion the following question and comment were noted: 
 There  was  a  question  regarding  whether  there  were  any  comparisons  done  between 
the  Salt  Spring  Island  Agricultural  Land  Use  Inventory  2017  and  the  2007  Agricultural 
Land  Use  map  that  was  done  for  the  2007 Salt  Spring  Island Area  Farm  Plan. RPM 
Cermak will look into this. 
 There was a comment that approximately 17% of properties on Salt Spring Island are in 
the Agricultural  Land  Reserve  (ALR) and another approximately 17% of  properties  on 
Salt Spring Island are zoned for agriculture although they are not within the ALR. There 
is as much farmland outside of the ALR as in the ALR on Salt Spring Island. 
 
3.4   Draft Bylaw No. 526 - Changes to Residential Permissions in the Agricultural Land Reserve 
and Bylaw Amendment Options for Dwellings on Large Farms 
 
Planner Mayes  presented  a staff  report  regarding Draft  Bylaw  No.  526 - Changes  to 
Residential Permissions in the Agricultural Land Reserve and Bylaw Amendment Options for 
Dwellings on Large Farms dated November 9, 2021.  
 
An item of correspondence was received and circulated by email from the Salt Spring Island 
Agricultural Alliance regarding “Potential Changes to the Land Use Bylaw Regarding Housing 
on Agricultural Land”, dated November 17, 2021. 
 
In discussion the following comments and questions were noted: 
 There was a comment that the referral discussed by the SSI Agricultural Alliance did not 
include  the  recommendation  that  is  being  presented  at  this  meeting.  There  was  a 
question  regarding  whether  the  draft  bylaw in  the  meeting  agenda package replaces 
the  draft  bylaw  that  was previously referred  to  the SSI Agricultural  Alliance.  Planner 
Mayes reported the recommendations presented in the staff report are in addition and 
if approved, would be included in Draft Bylaw No. 526 prior to referral. 
 There  was  a  suggestion  that all properties  being  actively  farmed  on  SSI  should  be 
included in Draft Bylaw No. 526.  

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting Minutes ADOPTED  3 
November 18, 2021 
  
 There  was  a  suggestion  that  the  requirement  to  be  considered  an  active  farm  such  as 
farm tax status could be used for farmland outside of the ALR. 
 There  was a suggestion to remove the word “permanent” prior to “employee” as it is 
very difficult to define a permanent employee working on farms. 
 There  was a comment that  the recent Agricultural Land commission (ALC) permissions 
include that  farms  may have  additional  dwellings  and  a  secondary  suite.  There  was  a 
question   regarding   whether   Draft   Bylaw   No.   526   would   allow farms to   have   a 
secondary suite and/or a second dwelling. Planner Mayes reported Draft Bylaw No. 526 
would allow a secondary suite or an additional dwelling.  
 There was a comment that farm tax status would be an insufficient metric to determine 
whether a property is actively farmed. 
 There  was  a  question  regarding  whether  a housing  agreement could  be  used  to 
regulate the additional dwellings are to be used for farm use. 
 There  was  a  concern expressed  that  when  new  dwellings  are  built  on  farmland it may 
have the impact of making farms too expensive for farmers. It is important to consider 
the long-term impacts on the cost of farmland. 
 There  was  a  comment  that  it  is  important  to  have  additional  mechanisms  above  farm 
tax status to make sure the additional dwellings would be used for farmworkers and/or 
retired family members. 
 There  was  a request for  all  of  the  changes  to  Draft  Bylaw  No.  526 to be  grouped 
together in one document.  
 
SS-2021-229 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
That  Salt  Spring  Island  Local  Trust  Committee  amend  draft  Bylaw  No.  526  by  inserting 
clause 2.3: “By replacing Section 3.17 – Dwellings on Large Farms – with the following: 
3.17  Despite other provisions of this bylaw, where agriculture is a permitted principal use 
on a lot not in an Agricultural zone, and complies with Section 3.5 and the Subdivision 
and Servicing Requirements of Part 9 of this Bylaw, additional farmworkers’ dwelling 
units not exceeding 186 square meters corresponding to the subdivision potential of 
a  lot  may  be  constructed and occupied  where  a  lot  is  classified  as  a  farm  under  the 
Assessment Act if the owner grants to the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee a 
covenant  under the Land Title  Act  restricting use  of the farmworkers’ dwelling units 
and prohibiting further subdivision of the lot.  
 Information  Note:  Applications  should  be  consistent  with  the  guidelines  in  H.2.1.3  of 
the Salt Spring Island Official Community Plan.” 
CARRIED 
 
SS-2021-230 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
That the Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee request staff to refer Draft Bylaw No. 526, 
as   amended,   to agencies   and   organizations,   as   identified   in   this   staff   report   dated 
November 18, 2021. 
CARRIED 
 
 

 
 
Salt Spring Island Local Trust Committee  
Special Meeting Minutes ADOPTED  4 
November 18, 2021 
  
4. ADJOURNMENT 
 
By general consent the meeting adjourned at 5:02 p.m. 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
Peter Luckham, Chair 
 
CERTIFIED CORRECT: 
 
 
_________________________ 
Sarah Shugar, Recorder