Islands Trust Council community information meeting, January 10, 2022

[0:00:01] Voice 10: and and and with respect call this meeting to order of the approval agenda

[0:00:09] Voice 10: first of all I want to thank Russ for our CEO for reorganizing an important

[0:00:13] Voice 10: long-standing meeting to be able to join us that's appreciated thank you sir yeah

[0:00:18] Voice 10: and secondly we have an item on the agenda which is unusual for us on its

[0:00:23] Voice 10: number four under the heading public comments and that that could also be

[0:00:28] Voice 10: read as the town hall. We haven't had a town hall for two reasons. One, we've basically been

[0:00:38] Voice 10: a committee tasked with guiding the work of professional consultants who didn't have a

[0:00:44] Voice 10: consultation mandate. We basically were relying on professional expertise to deliver us

[0:00:52] Voice 10: a report of recommendations in respect of governance of the trust.

[0:00:59] Voice 10: So we've not really reached out to public members, and hence we've not had a town hall component.

[0:01:07] Voice 10: But public reached out saying they felt it was appropriate the town hall be a component

[0:01:13] Voice 10: of the committee meetings, both the executive and the financial planning and this one.

[0:01:20] Voice 10: on and so we've ended up with it on and you may think it all because this is you know sort of one

[0:01:26] Voice 10: of our final meetings as the report is near near conclusion but so i just wanted to check in with

[0:01:32] Voice 10: committee members to say i i believe um lori can lori uh would know uh more than i about this but

[0:01:40] Voice 10: i believe we have some participants who have a desire to speak to us in this section of the

[0:01:46] Voice 10: meeting um and so i just want to check in to say is it is it okay if we proceed um i see no

[0:01:53] Voice 10: i know it's it's it's not normally the role of a committee of council because we're not you know

[0:01:59] Voice 10: we're not we're tasked with a function by council so we sort of a one layer insulated from from the

[0:02:06] Voice 10: the liaison with the public but i don't see any harm with proceeding but i just want to check in

[0:02:11] Voice 10: and see if that's okay um and trustee morrison i see your hand is up so please please go ahead

[0:02:19] Trustee Morrison: yeah i'm um not actually totally comfortable with this because the the mandate from trust council

[0:02:27] Trustee Morrison: was that we were to kind of go and do this thing and come back to council with recommendations and

[0:02:32] Trustee Morrison: thoughts and like public feedback at this point we don't have any kind of mandate to act on it

[0:02:39] Trustee Morrison: like personally as this committee um and so i would much prefer that that kind of commentary

[0:02:46] Trustee Morrison: come in the form of people who've read the consultant's report because we're not actually

[0:02:50] Trustee Morrison: influencing the consultant's report either so like that the consult that those folks come into

[0:02:56] Trustee Morrison: the march meeting um and read the consultant's report or i guess at that point it won't have

[0:03:03] Trustee Morrison: been released necessarily we'll decide that today but um yeah so i just i'm not clear what the

[0:03:10] Trustee Morrison: purpose of consultation here is um because we don't have the power to act on that and we're

[0:03:17] Trustee Morrison: not influencing the consultant's report and i feel like if there's commentary here it may

[0:03:21] Trustee Morrison: come across as that we're influencing the consultant's report and we're not

[0:03:26] Voice 10: yep um fair point and certainly this is not consultation i mean this would be the public

[0:03:32] Voice 10: addressing their elected officials to whatever matter they themselves have chosen.

[0:03:39] Voice 10: So you're absolutely right.

[0:03:41] Voice 10: This can't be construed as consultation.

[0:03:44] Voice 10: But Trustee Brent, followed by Vice Chair Longerace, please.

[0:03:49] Voice 4: Oh, well, I appreciate what Trustee Morrison is saying.

[0:03:52] Voice 4: I really think we need to listen to the public and any opportunity we can to listen to the

[0:03:58] Voice 4: public.

[0:03:58] Voice 4: They may have concerns.

[0:03:59] Voice 4: They may have input.

[0:04:01] Voice 4: put, I think it's really important. And so this isn't, you know, my time is not so valuable that

[0:04:09] Voice 4: I can't listen to members of the public provide their thoughts on something. So I would be in

[0:04:14] Voice 4: favor of hearing what the public has to say.

[0:04:18] Voice 10: Thank you, Trustee Brent. Vice Chair Longerace,

[0:04:21] Voice 10: please.

[0:04:22] Voice 17: Yeah, yeah, I agree with Trustee Brent in the respect of we get email or we get letters

[0:04:28] Voice 17: sent to us right now we have one in fact included on our agenda which in fact is input to the to the

[0:04:35] Voice 17: committee but we in the last letter we got i think we just said we would accept it and pass it on

[0:04:41] Voice 17: and we're not going to act upon so i don't see us responding to feedback that we hear it's just

[0:04:47] Voice 17: an ability to say what they want to say at a meeting and we're not governed by by what they

[0:04:54] Voice 17: what they say i think that what they say should probably go to trust counsel but uh yeah so i'm

[0:05:02] Voice 17: fairly indifferent i guess in some respects i'm not worried about it

[0:05:08] Voice 10: thank you uh by chair longest uh trustee kale please yeah

[0:05:12] Voice 14: i i don't like the approach that

[0:05:16] Voice 14: we're not going to listen to anyone but i i do agree with what um trustee morrison said so long

[0:05:23] Voice 14: long as there's a clear understanding that we are a committee with a specific task, and we have no

[0:05:33] Voice 14: effect on the consultant's report in terms of its content. However, I think we should do what we

[0:05:40] Voice 14: would do in a municipality. We should listen and receive for information, and certainly it can be

[0:05:45] Voice 14: passed on as appropriate. I do not like the idea of turning someone down and saying, we will not

[0:05:52] Voice 14: listen to you that i don't think is acceptable uh

[0:05:58] Voice 10: thank you um trustee kale and trustee morrison a

[0:06:01] Voice 10: follow-up i

[0:06:03] Trustee Morrison: think trustee uh langrise was ahead of me okay

[0:06:08] Voice 10: thank you trustee language please yeah

[0:06:10] Voice 17: yeah i just wanted to uh clarify that when i said not listen we're not going to act upon what they

[0:06:15] Voice 17: say in terms of the report itself or making any adjustments so i mean we can certainly receive

[0:06:20] Voice 17: information we'll hear hear what they have to say but that's that's the extent of it at this point

[0:06:25] Voice 17: and time and for this process anyway thank

[0:06:31] Voice 10: you um trustee morrison please um

[0:06:35] Trustee Morrison: and i feel the need to

[0:06:38] Trustee Morrison: defend myself which is fascinating because i don't actually often feel the need to do that so i almost

[0:06:43] Trustee Morrison: called a point of order on the comment that you know your time isn't too valuable issue so um

[0:06:51] Trustee Morrison: to be able to listen because my point is not that we shouldn't hear the comments it's

[0:06:57] Trustee Morrison: which location is the most appropriate so that the higher trust council hears clearly

[0:07:03] Trustee Morrison: what the public is saying. And so messaging it as we are listening or not listening is inaccurate

[0:07:11] Trustee Morrison: to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is we should listen, but we should listen carefully and all of

[0:07:16] Trustee Morrison: trust council should hear these messages. And so my intent is that all of trust council should

[0:07:22] Trustee Morrison: hear this. So if we're going to hear it here, I want it recorded by individual people and what

[0:07:26] Trustee Morrison: their comments are and put forward with the report because we're hearing it but the rest of the trust

[0:07:31] Trustee Morrison: council isn't and that's problematic thank

[0:07:38] Voice 10: you uh trustee morrison trustee locum please yeah i just

[0:07:42] Trustee Luckham: feel obligated to uh support uh be sure that we uh are listening to our colleagues uh trustee morrison

[0:07:51] Trustee Luckham: in fact and that um she does have some very valid concerns which i have uh been concerned about

[0:07:59] Trustee Luckham: of which I will add to that list of concerns

[0:08:02] Trustee Luckham: that we should consider is the public has not been invited

[0:08:09] Trustee Luckham: in any way, shape or form to provide comment in this forum.

[0:08:14] Trustee Luckham: The people that have stepped forward,

[0:08:16] Trustee Luckham: I don't know what their expectation is,

[0:08:18] Trustee Luckham: but we would want to be clear to them

[0:08:20] Trustee Luckham: as trustee Langerheis has said

[0:08:22] Trustee Luckham: that we're not going to act on this,

[0:08:24] Voice 8: whatever

[0:08:24] Trustee Luckham: it is that they want to tell us.

[0:08:27] Trustee Luckham: and so there shouldn't be an expectation that that would be the case but certainly

[0:08:31] Trustee Luckham: it's entirely possible that if it was a known fact that there would be a town hall

[0:08:40] Trustee Luckham: other members of the public might also choose to attend and have something to say so

[0:08:47] Trustee Luckham: there is an administrative fairness component to this that is of concern but that said I am

[0:08:53] Trustee Luckham: am completely happy to hear from the public on any occasion. And I'll listen to them. But I think we

[0:09:01] Trustee Luckham: need to be clear about to whoever it is that's showing up, and I don't even know who it is. I

[0:09:07] Trustee Luckham: don't see a list of people at this point. But they should be advised that we're only here to hear.

[0:09:12] Trustee Luckham: I do have some concerns about the consultants being in the room. They would obviously have

[0:09:18] Trustee Luckham: have to not be influenced in the crafting of their report

[0:09:22] Trustee Luckham: because we, and there is no mechanism.

[0:09:26] Trustee Luckham: And if it's a, and again, repeating myself, I apologize.

[0:09:30] Trustee Luckham: If it's only a few people that were quick enough

[0:09:33] Trustee Luckham: to figure out that they could exercise the right

[0:09:36] Trustee Luckham: to speak to us and not generally available

[0:09:38] Trustee Luckham: to the broader public, that would obviously change

[0:09:42] Trustee Luckham: the reflection on the reporting.

[0:09:44] Trustee Luckham: As the consultants have been clear

[0:09:46] Trustee Luckham: that there would be a limited number of others

[0:09:49] Trustee Luckham: that would be consulted with respect to the crafting of the group.

[0:09:53] Trustee Luckham: That's my two cents.

[0:09:54] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Trustee Morrison, for raising the point.

[0:09:58] Voice 10: Thank you, Trustee Luckman.

[0:10:01] Voice 10: Normally, for those who don't know his smiling face,

[0:10:04] Voice 10: Chair of Trust Council Luckman.

[0:10:06] Voice 10: We obviously haven't introduced ourselves.

[0:10:09] Voice 10: I don't think we normally introduce ourselves, do we?

[0:10:12] Voice 10: Anyway, we maybe should in this regard.

[0:10:14] Voice 10: But anyway, we'll come back to that.

[0:10:15] Voice 10: But thank you for the comments.

[0:10:16] Voice 10: Next, Trustee Brent followed by Trustee Wright.

[0:10:19] Voice 10: And then I have a suggestion maybe that might be helpful here.

[0:10:23] Voice 4: Okay, I'm finding this really curious.

[0:10:26] Voice 4: You know, we've received written correspondence.

[0:10:29] Voice 4: And this issue didn't come up with a written correspondence.

[0:10:32] Voice 4: We agreed to receive it.

[0:10:34] Voice 4: We have other committee meetings where, you know, people come in and make comments.

[0:10:38] Voice 4: Trust Council doesn't hear all the comments.

[0:10:40] Voice 4: So I don't hear that concern happening.

[0:10:43] Voice 4: This is recorded.

[0:10:44] Voice 4: So everyone will have the opportunity to hear these comments, including all trustees and all members of the public.

[0:10:52] Voice 4: So I just I'm really curious as to why this is all of a sudden an issue, because it hasn't been an issue before.

[0:11:00] Voice 4: Written correspondence is written correspondence. The management consultants are invited to these meetings.

[0:11:06] Voice 4: They see the written correspondence. They are professionals, I assume, because they are professionals.

[0:11:11] Voice 4: And having met them, I believe they are not influenced by things that they're not supposed to be influenced by.

[0:11:17] Voice 4: So this is kind of a it's an extraordinary kind of discussion that I think is is either way, way too late or not really appropriate at this time.

[0:11:27] Voice 10: Thanks. Thank you, Trustee Brent. Trustee Wright, please.

[0:11:33] Voice 3: Yeah, I'm I'm not sure the point of the exercise to tell the public that we're prepared to hear them, but we're not going to we're going to ignore everything that they say.

[0:11:42] Voice 3: I think that if there is going to be a conversation about this without the public influencing the report or ourselves as committee members influencing the report, then perhaps I think wait for the report and to have that full discussion at council, which is an open public meeting.

[0:12:02] Voice 3: And I think that would be a more appropriate venue.

[0:12:04] Voice 3: That's it. Thanks.

[0:12:07] Voice 10: Thank you. And just do you want a quick follow up, Trustee Luckham? I see your hand up.

[0:12:12] Voice 10: Well,

[0:12:13] Trustee Luckham: I do. I'd just like to remind Trustee Brent that when we did receive correspondence at this committee, there was a conversation about what would we do with that and how should we manage it, because there was not a public input component to this committee.

[0:12:30] Trustee Luckham: So it's not unusual, and I think it's appropriate that members relay their concerns about anything that we happen to be doing.

[0:12:41] Trustee Luckham: And obviously, we're going to advance with listening to the public at this time.

[0:12:45] Trustee Luckham: So let us continue.

[0:12:48] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:12:49] Voice 10: I think what I'd suggest is I bear some responsibility here.

[0:12:53] Voice 10: There was a request for the town hall component as would normally be allowed under any meeting proceedings of the trust last week.

[0:13:04] Voice 10: And CAO and I touched base on it briefly, and I was to follow up with whom I thought was one person, and we just never connected.

[0:13:13] Voice 10: And it seems that we've got a more broadly advertised without being formally advertised town hall in front of us.

[0:13:20] Voice 10: So that's, you know, I bear some responsibility for that.

[0:13:22] Voice 10: And what I suggest is because this is so, we don't want to turn people away of expressed interest.

[0:13:28] Voice 10: And they're in the, I presume, in the waiting room.

[0:13:30] Voice 10: I see there are seven names there.

[0:13:32] Voice 10: So I suggest we proceed with the public comments, however it's called, in section number four.

[0:13:40] Voice 10: And then I propose a new business item where we actually decide, are we having, I mean, there are not many select committee meetings left, but I think we probably, for the sake of procedure, should formally decide, are we going to have a town hall section as part of our meetings, yes or no?

[0:13:58] Voice 10: And we can do that separately from the people who have taken the time to show up today.

[0:14:03] Voice 10: We'll hear from them, but then we'll make a formal decision.

[0:14:07] Voice 10: I would suggest if that could be item that's under number six, new business would be town hall at the select committee meetings.

[0:14:16] Voice 10: Does that sound an acceptable compromise to move forward?

[0:14:19] Voice 10: Our CEO has his hand up.

[0:14:21] Voice 10: Please, sir.

[0:14:22] Voice 11: Well, good afternoon and happy new year to all of you.

[0:14:25] Voice 11: it's good to be back with you after a couple of weeks good to see you weathered all the storms

[0:14:31] Voice 11: um i think the simplest thing right now we don't have a specific policy that addresses the public

[0:14:37] Voice 11: speaking with select committees uh you know every day i come into the trust and i find a new thing

[0:14:41] Voice 11: that hasn't been addressed over the years um so i but that being said it's up to the elected

[0:14:47] Voice 11: officials at any body of the islands trust whether they want to hear from the public so

[0:14:51] Voice 11: So if the committee wished to,

[0:14:54] Voice 11: you could just simply vote

[0:14:55] Voice 11: to include a public comment section here at this meeting,

[0:14:59] Voice 11: and then that would cover the matter off.

[0:15:04] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:15:05] Voice 10: Trustee Morrison, do you have a final comment?

[0:15:07] Trustee Morrison: Yeah, a final comment.

[0:15:08] Trustee Morrison: Thank you, Lee, for the thoughts.

[0:15:10] Trustee Morrison: So I think we're in a situation

[0:15:12] Trustee Morrison: where the agenda has been advertised,

[0:15:14] Trustee Morrison: that there's a town hall, and it's just, I agree with you.

[0:15:17] Trustee Morrison: I don't think it's appropriate in this situation

[0:15:19] Trustee Morrison: where it has been advertised that way

[0:15:20] Trustee Morrison: to turn people away who are here.

[0:15:22] Trustee Morrison: so um even though i disagree with um having folks in this particular context for a number of reasons

[0:15:30] Trustee Morrison: which i'm just not going to go into right now it seems exhaustive given that we just want to

[0:15:34] Trustee Morrison: move forward um but one of the things i would suggest is that um because this is a select

[0:15:40] Trustee Morrison: committee because it's not a standing community of the trust that we hear and receive the same

[0:15:46] Trustee Morrison: way we would an email and we don't engage as trustees with the speakers and that way the

[0:15:51] Trustee Morrison: recording is just their thoughts and that their thoughts get forwarded to those and we we send an

[0:15:56] Trustee Morrison: email out to trustees afterwards that there was actually live not just paper there was live

[0:16:01] Trustee Morrison: speakers if they wanted to listen to folks um

[0:16:06] Voice 10: sure thank you i think it would be constituted

[0:16:08] Voice 10: in the same way as um as that trust council i i don't believe there's a response usually to uh to

[0:16:15] Voice 10: to, I may be wrong, I'm a CAO, Hudson Bell, you would be?

[0:16:20] Voice 10: You're right.

[0:16:21] Voice 10: So we received the comments and then, yeah, okay.

[0:16:25] Voice 10: I guess to be formal, because it is an item on the agenda,

[0:16:28] Voice 10: can I get approval to include this item then

[0:16:31] Voice 10: that's on our agenda?

[0:16:34] Voice 10: Yeah, I'll move that.

[0:16:36] Voice 10: And a seconder for?

[0:16:38] Voice 3: I'll second it.

[0:16:39] Voice 10: Okay, and in favor?

[0:16:42] Voice 10: Okay, I think, does anyone want to vote, be opposed

[0:16:46] Voice 10: or have their that recorded it seems like a nice thing to ask but no no

[0:16:52] Voice 10: pressure so anyway it looks like that passes so what we will have the as item

[0:16:58] Voice 10: number for the public comment slash Town Hall section and we'll do Laurie's

[0:17:02] Voice 10: kindly provided the necessary preamble which I've not they don't normally

[0:17:06] Voice 10: obviously speak to and so we'll speak to that when we get to the agenda item

[0:17:14] Voice 10: number four so it seems because we do have members of the we know we have members of the public

[0:17:19] Voice 10: present um that a round of introductions may well be in order and i might start out with uh

[0:17:25] Voice 10: introducing the august mr charles kelly who is the uh the project manager for great northern

[0:17:31] Voice 10: management consultants who is uh who are um conducting the governance and management review

[0:17:37] Voice 10: for for for us for trust council um and then myself i'm the chair of the committee uh lee

[0:17:44] Voice 10: middleton elected as trustee on saturn island um and without what i'll do is maybe just introduce

[0:17:52] Voice 10: you so that you can't you can't see where you are in the order of my screen so i'll just introduce

[0:17:57] Voice 10: you and maybe you can uh raise your hand and then uh we have our our chief administrative officer

[0:18:03] Voice 10: mr ross hopson pillar joining us thank you very much uh trustee tim peterson is standing by as

[0:18:10] Voice 10: an alternate to Trustee Morrison and he's elected on Luskeedie Island. We have Councillor and

[0:18:15] Voice 10: Trustee Cahill elected on Bowen Island and a council member of Bowen Island Municipality.

[0:18:21] Voice 10: Trustee Steve Wright elected on South Pender. Vice Chair of this committee, Case Longerace,

[0:18:27] Voice 10: elected on Gabriola. We have Trustee Luckum, who's also the Chair of Trust Council.

[0:18:33] Voice 10: Peter Luckum who's elected on Thetis Island. Trustee David Critchley elected on Denman Island

[0:18:40] Voice 10: and trustee Paul Brent elected on Saturna Island,

[0:18:44] Voice 10: trustee Dan Morrison,

[0:18:45] Voice 10: who's chair of the Trust Programs Committee

[0:18:47] Voice 10: and also elected on Pender Island.

[0:18:49] Voice 10: And then supporting us,

[0:18:51] Voice 10: we have our staff member, Lori Foster.

[0:18:55] Voice 10: Absent is from Pender trustee Ben McConkie.

[0:18:59] Voice 10: I think that's it.

[0:19:01] Voice 10: So thanks for joining us.

[0:19:03] Voice 10: Appreciate you bearing with us

[0:19:05] Voice 10: while we had that procedural discussion

[0:19:06] Voice 10: to those members of the public in attendance.

[0:19:11] Voice 10: We now turn to adoption of the minutes from the previous meeting.

[0:19:16] Voice 10: So if there are no additions, corrections, adjustments, I'd ask for a motion to adopt

[0:19:22] Voice 10: those minutes, please.

[0:19:25] Voice 4: I'll move adoption.

[0:19:26] Voice 4: Paul Brandt.

[0:19:29] Voice 10: Seconded.

[0:19:29] Voice 10: I see Vice-Chair Longrace nodding his head in favor.

[0:19:35] Voice 10: So we've adopted those minutes.

[0:19:37] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:19:37] Voice 10: you. So we had no resolutions without meeting. And on page six, there's the follow-up action list.

[0:19:50] Voice 10: Are there any questions, comments about the follow-up action list? Okay. I presume just

[0:20:01] Voice 10: received for information, then thank you to staff for organizing that. All right. So this now brings

[0:20:10] Voice 10: us to the section that we have been discussing, which is the public comments slash town hall.

[0:20:15] Voice 10: um there'll be there's just a note about um procedure and decorum that i'll i'll read in

[0:20:21] Voice 10: a second but the general gist is that each speaker has two minutes to uh um speak and that the the

[0:20:28] Voice 10: conclusion all sort of you know as possible interrupt you to let you know your your two

[0:20:33] Voice 10: minutes is up um i believe the perhaps lori could speak to this or a ceo the the the procedure to

[0:20:43] Voice 10: to become a speaker is you would raise your hand

[0:20:46] Voice 10: as an attendee and then in turn,

[0:20:49] Voice 10: Laurie Foster, who's our staff member coordinating this call

[0:20:52] Voice 10: would assign you a speaking role

[0:20:56] Voice 10: and would let you know that that's happened

[0:20:59] Voice 10: and then you would speak for your two minutes.

[0:21:02] Voice 10: Is that correct?

[0:21:04] Voice 10: Have I got that right?

[0:21:06] Voice 1: Yes, that's correct.

[0:21:08] Voice 1: Speakers will raise their hand

[0:21:10] Voice 1: and i'll turn their microphones on at your uh request thank you great

[0:21:16] Voice 10: thank you um and so just

[0:21:18] Voice 10: in terms of the safe and respectful environment that we we want to see in our public and private

[0:21:25] Voice 10: proceedings with the trust that we we would ask that your comments should explain your support

[0:21:30] Voice 10: or opposition to the topic you raise and not be about people or groups of people that you should

[0:21:37] Voice 10: use respectful inclusive language avoid use of abusive offensive vulgar or discriminatory

[0:21:42] Voice 10: language use language that is honest accurate and direct but avoid using terms that disguise

[0:21:48] Voice 10: or underplay the true intent of your comments and that i pleased to focus on on facts and

[0:21:54] Voice 10: please did avoid speculating or making assumptions um and thank you for listening to that and

[0:22:01] Voice 10: and adhering to those guidelines.

[0:22:02] Voice 10: So I think we are ready for our first speaker.

[0:22:07] Voice 10: I see on my screen here, that is Mary Beth Rondeau.

[0:22:10] Trustee Morrison: Sure.

[0:22:12] Voice 10: Sorry, yes, Trustee Morrison.

[0:22:15] Trustee Morrison: Do we have a, sorry if I missed it,

[0:22:17] Trustee Morrison: but do we have a time allocation for each speaker?

[0:22:20] Voice 10: Two minutes.

[0:22:21] Trustee Morrison: Two minutes, thank you, thank you.

[0:22:23] Voice 10: Yeah, you're welcome.

[0:22:25] Voice 10: So Laurie, I'll leave it to you to energize.

[0:22:29] Voice 10: uh i see uh mary beth you're on our screen now um i believe you would unmute i think that's

[0:22:37] Voice 10: yourself needing to unmute but i'm not 100 sure that i just yeah okay

[0:22:42] Voice 12: ready to go yes

[0:22:45] Voice 10: we can hear

[0:22:45] Voice 10: you just fine thank you please thanks for joining us please proceed thank

[0:22:49] Voice 12: you for the opportunity

[0:22:50] Voice 12: to speak today um i am i i understood too that it's two to five minutes i think that's what

[0:22:55] Voice 12: lori wrote i think on four minutes i hope that's okay i'm a retired architect on north pender

[0:23:00] Voice 12: island where i live part-time year-round i worked in municipal government for 25 years and my

[0:23:06] Voice 12: comments come from that perspective firstly thank you for to those trustees who stood their ground

[0:23:11] Voice 12: and got this governance review funded and underway i speak for many in the community who strongly

[0:23:16] Voice 12: support this initiative so well done and keep up the good work as you see in your agenda package i

[0:23:23] Voice 12: I wrote an email reflecting the desires of these many community members that this final report being submitted at your next meeting, February 7th, become immediately available to the public.

[0:23:33] Voice 12: But I understand that it has been determined to be in-camera at that meeting and in the subsequent Trust Council quarterly meeting, March 8th to 10th, that it will be again in-camera.

[0:23:45] Voice 12: I have a request related to this.

[0:23:47] Voice 12: we would like to understand statutorily how this meets the requirements to achieve in-camera status

[0:23:52] Voice 12: according to applicable statutes and bylaws, if that could be made public to us. As well,

[0:23:58] Voice 12: we understand that no changes can or should be made to the report by Trust Council as part of

[0:24:04] Voice 12: the discussion that they have in-camera, if that could be confirmed. So then this report will be

[0:24:09] Voice 12: available immediately after Trust Council meeting, which relates to the schedule for the public

[0:24:15] Voice 12: public engagement, ISL Engineering has been selected as the public engagement consultant

[0:24:19] Voice 12: for the proposed amendments to the trust policy statement, and their proposal is included in the

[0:24:25] Voice 12: agenda package at the upcoming executive committee meeting. That's in two days on Wednesday. ISL

[0:24:31] Voice 12: schedule says that all public engagement will be finished at the end of March. And remember that

[0:24:39] Voice 12: the last two weeks of March is spring break, and normally holidays are excluded from those

[0:24:44] Voice 12: those kind of periods this is a compressed schedule so if you recall the modus report

[0:24:49] Voice 12: suggested that if you chose option three it would be well past the spring and the RFP suggested also

[0:24:55] Voice 12: that it would go into April many community members have expressed interest in understanding the

[0:25:01] Voice 12: conclusions of this government's review report as part of the public engagement for the trust policy

[0:25:07] Voice 12: statement which is very much related to governance and if the public engagement is done without this

[0:25:13] Voice 12: it will be another incomplete process public engagement process therefore we request that

[0:25:19] Voice 12: the public engagement schedule is on the agenda which is on the upcoming EC meeting agenda be

[0:25:26] Voice 12: extended into April and I know that's not you specifically but I I'm hoping for your influence

[0:25:30] Voice 12: last point it is my understanding that the schedule to get to first reading to the proposed

[0:25:35] Voice 12: amendments to the trust policy statements currently scheduled for this summer is being

[0:25:40] Voice 12: being updated at the Executive Committee meeting on Wednesday.

[0:25:44] Voice 12: We have had anecdotal statements from a number of trustees saying that this is not realistic

[0:25:52] Voice 12: schedule and the amendments will end up being postponed until after the October 15th election.

[0:25:59] Voice 12: So my final request, this is mostly for any trustees, again, who have an influence.

[0:26:04] Voice 12: Please formally postpone the schedule for the first reading to the trust policy statement

[0:26:09] Voice 12: statement until after the October election which will allow your community the time it needs to

[0:26:14] Voice 12: incorporate the important information from this government's report into our future trust policy

[0:26:20] Voice 12: statement thank you for your time thank

[0:26:26] Voice 10: you very very much um and um out of fairness to uh I didn't

[0:26:32] Voice 10: you were actually a little bit under four minutes but I would thank you for that but out of fairness

[0:26:36] Voice 10: I think we'll give four minutes to each participant because that's what what you had starting out and

[0:26:41] Voice 10: So contradicting my original guidance, but hopefully that's okay.

[0:26:48] Voice 10: We go to our next speaker, I believe on the list is John Money, who is now showing.

[0:26:56] Voice 10: And I believe you yourself, John, would now just unmute the mic at your end to proceed.

[0:27:12] Voice 10: I'm still seeing your mic muted, John.

[0:27:15] Voice 10: Can you hear me now?

[0:27:25] Voice 10: Yeah, you got it.

[0:27:26] Voice 10: Thanks, John.

[0:27:27] Voice 10: thanks for joining us and uh please thank

[0:27:29] Voice 13: you um my name is john money i was a trustee for 21 years

[0:27:34] Voice 13: and on the executive for six years uh i started with the islands trust uh not that many years

[0:27:42] Voice 13: after it was started or conceived the islands trust in that was created to supply planning

[0:27:50] Voice 13: services to 13 island communities in the southern gulf islands of the salish sea

[0:27:55] Voice 13: i believe all except maybe one of these already had their official community plans and land use

[0:28:04] Voice 13: bylaws in place these plans were created by planner help of several regional districts

[0:28:11] Voice 13: the island stress was created as a federation for these different island communities

[0:28:18] Voice 13: their very different official community plans and land use bylaws were tied together because

[0:28:24] Voice 13: because they were all islands.

[0:28:26] Voice 13: It was cumbersome working

[0:28:28] Voice 13: with many different regional districts.

[0:28:32] Voice 13: The Islands Trust was charged to help conserve

[0:28:35] Voice 13: the unique amenities of the area

[0:28:37] Voice 13: while supplying planning services.

[0:28:41] Voice 13: The flora and fauna of all these Gulf Islands

[0:28:43] Voice 13: is very similar.

[0:28:44] Voice 13: Transportation problems are similar.

[0:28:47] Voice 13: The real uniqueness comes from each and every community,

[0:28:51] Voice 13: and they're very different communities.

[0:28:53] Voice 13: the island's trust has lost its way in my opinion they are trying to create a policy statement that

[0:29:02] Voice 13: strips the goals and individuality of each and every community and their individual and official

[0:29:09] Voice 13: Community plans and land use bylaws with very little Community or no Community input and what

[0:29:17] Voice 13: I would say proper input especially they have lost focus on supplying planning services and

[0:29:25] Voice 13: become a taxpayer-funded advocacy group stripping property rights given to landowners by their

[0:29:32] Voice 13: official community plans and land use bylaws their bloated budget is growing at an alarming rate

[0:29:40] Voice 13: while development and land use applications are becoming less and less

[0:29:45] Voice 13: they seem to show no concern for community health and economic base the islands trust is no longer

[0:29:53] Voice 13: or supplying proper governments to the Gulf Islands, in my opinion. Thank you.

[0:30:02] Voice 10: Thank you, John. I believe we have a third speaker, Don Corbin, whose hand is raised.

[0:30:13] Voice 10: And thank you, Laurie. I believe you are able now, Don, to unmute your mic and proceed.

[0:30:20] Voice 10: I see you're unmuted. Thank you. So please go ahead for four minutes.

[0:30:25] Voice 15: yes uh thank you i find it somewhat ironic that as a piece of my correspondence uh provoked an

[0:30:32] Voice 15: initial discussion about the role of the public in this uh in this committee for it to return in

[0:30:38] Voice 15: another form however my purpose is not to address the uh address the content of the uh consultants

[0:30:46] Voice 15: consultant's report to reiterate some concerns I have about the timing of the report and how

[0:30:55] Voice 15: it's to be assessed the initial terms of reference provided called for this report to be uh to be

[0:31:05] Voice 15: delivered and discussed prior to any changes in the trust policy uh revisions for 183 I still feel

[0:31:15] Voice 15: feel that the current timeline does not allow

[0:31:19] Voice 15: for that to take place effectively.

[0:31:22] Voice 15: Now, as I recall from my discussions with Trustee Morrison,

[0:31:25] Voice 15: although she indicated that she had voted

[0:31:27] Voice 15: for these terms of reference,

[0:31:30] Voice 15: she herself did not support that particular provision.

[0:31:34] Voice 15: My view, this is having it both ways.

[0:31:38] Voice 15: The other concern I have is

[0:31:40] Voice 15: I see-

[0:31:42] Trustee Morrison: Point of order.

[0:31:44] Voice 10: um just one moment please uh mr corbin uh trustee morrison uh so

[0:31:50] Trustee Morrison: i'm uncomfortable being quoted on

[0:31:53] Trustee Morrison: something that i'm being mis conveyed um

[0:31:57] Voice 10: fair enough uh trustee marston mr corbin could i ask

[0:32:01] Voice 10: that we um refrain from uh personal reference for the for the remainder of your presentation if if

[0:32:07] Voice 10: that's possible or acceptable to you yes

[0:32:10] Voice 15: well let me turn to my other other concern and that is i

[0:32:13] Voice 15: understand the regional planning committee is meeting uh have this way to adjust uh to adjust

[0:32:22] Voice 15: um uh or to review and consider how planning services are are delivered to local trust

[0:32:31] Voice 15: committees it looks to me like that that this is an issue that would be uh would preempt if you

[0:32:43] Voice 15: like some of the possible conclusions of uh of the consultants report and discussion of them

[0:32:50] Voice 15: so i'm concerned about you know spending 75 000 or thereabouts of the public money on this report

[0:32:59] Voice 15: and then failing to adhere to what i thought were the the terms of how it was to be considered and

[0:33:06] Voice 15: incorporated and so i would also agree with with the previous one of the previous speakers that

[0:33:15] Voice 15: no nothing should be done until after the next uh elections for local trustees thank you

[0:33:25] Voice 10: thank you mr corbin i appreciate your sticking within the time parameters there and uh thanks

[0:33:30] Voice 10: for your comments um i believe we have a final speaker meow chandler um lori if you'd be able

[0:33:38] Voice 10: able to see you on the screen there and thank you your your mic is unmuted so so please proceed and

[0:33:44] Voice 10: thank you for joining us you have four minutes thank

[0:33:48] Voice 16: you so much for including a town hall in

[0:33:50] Voice 16: today's meeting um i'm sorry it's um i'm having a it's it's uh i'm stressed out about speaking but

[0:33:58] Voice 16: i'll do my best to get through this so i'm i'm speaking to you today as a resident landholder

[0:34:05] Voice 16: tradesperson, aspiring farmer and political scientist. I spent many years of my life researching, teaching and publishing on governance and democracy at university levels.

[0:34:16] Voice 16: So there's five points that I'd like to touch on, and I framed them as questions.

[0:34:22] Voice 16: Firstly, regarding the relationship between reconciliation and democracy.

[0:34:26] Voice 16: How are the 28,000 or so non-resident First Nations people whom the trust has recently added to its self-identity to be incorporated into the voting and decision-making structures and processes?

[0:34:43] Voice 16: Secondly, how is what some may perceive as a rather less than fully democratic nature of having an unelected tie-breaking chair in our local trust committees to be addressed?

[0:34:58] Voice 16: Thirdly, there are three parts to the trust mandate. The first is preserve and protect,

[0:35:04] Voice 16: the second is for the benefit of residents and British Columbians, and the third is in

[0:35:11] Voice 16: cooperation with a number of governing bodies. The second part seems to me often forgotten,

[0:35:17] Voice 16: bottom. How is it to be included in meaningful ways? Fourthly, how is the difficult dynamic

[0:35:28] Voice 16: between planning staff and residents to be healed? How is trust and collaboration to be fostered

[0:35:36] Voice 16: going forward? Fifth, with regard to expanding the jurisdiction of staff to include decision

[0:35:44] Voice 16: making on permits? What checks and balances are to be put in place to protect residents and ensure

[0:35:51] Voice 16: fairness? Currently, we have no processes of appeal. Six, I would love to see the propriety

[0:36:00] Voice 16: of having resolutions with significant social and economic consequences drafted by bylaw officers

[0:36:07] Voice 16: in the absence of input by those most impacted

[0:36:11] Voice 16: by these resolutions, I'd love to see that addressed.

[0:36:17] Voice 16: And just in closing, it was interesting to me

[0:36:22] Voice 16: that after spending so many weeks of my life writing about

[0:36:27] Voice 16: and analyzing my own bylaw experiences,

[0:36:30] Voice 16: that I was not deemed worthy of an interview.

[0:36:33] Voice 16: Thank you.

[0:36:37] Voice 10: thank thank you very much um i'm sorry i myself dropped out there for

[0:36:42] Voice 10: the last part of of your comments but i'll certainly look to them during the live recording

[0:36:47] Voice 10: um i i let me just see if there i believe there's one uh more part uh participant or attendee who

[0:36:56] Voice 10: would like to speak uh and just your first name shows uh um so and if you could introduce yourself

[0:37:03] Voice 10: and your mic is now live and you have four minutes

[0:37:07] Voice 10: and thanks for joining us.

[0:37:09] Voice 2: Thank you.

[0:37:11] Voice 2: Thank you to the select committee

[0:37:12] Voice 2: for this opportunity to speak today.

[0:37:14] Voice 2: My name is Anne Burdette

[0:37:16] Voice 2: and I'm a 43 year resident of Pender Island.

[0:37:20] Voice 2: The request for proposal for the governance review

[0:37:23] Voice 2: asked for two areas to review of which I will speak.

[0:37:26] Voice 2: One, identify areas of strengths and weaknesses

[0:37:29] Voice 2: with recommendations on how the organization

[0:37:32] Voice 2: can become more efficient

[0:37:33] Voice 2: and to planning processes and deliverables I am hopeful that one of

[0:37:39] Voice 2: the recommendations from the consultants report will be for the application

[0:37:43] Voice 2: timelines with perform with performance benchmarks similar to the 90 days for

[0:37:48] Voice 2: agricultural land commission applications once applicable requirements

[0:37:53] Voice 2: are met in my opinion it has become too easy for elected officials to use

[0:37:58] Voice 2: consultation reviews and studies to put off decisions indefinitely or avoid

[0:38:05] Voice 2: responsibility I have suggested application timelines at our North

[0:38:10] Voice 2: Pender local trust meetings and attempted during quarterly trust

[0:38:14] Voice 2: counseling I advocate for this as my partner and I have had various

[0:38:20] Voice 2: applications before the North Pender LTC one application on books over nine

[0:38:25] Voice 2: nine years. Our application, a political hot potato, has seen three different sets of North

[0:38:32] Voice 2: Pender trustees. Each committee has tried to find a suitable location for our waste disposal

[0:38:38] Voice 2: business, an essential item of the preserve and protect mandate, and vital service to North and

[0:38:45] Voice 2: South Pender Islands. Our business currently operates under temporary use permits, which gives

[0:38:51] Voice 2: no security to our community or business owners while the north pender ltc now undergoes an

[0:38:57] Voice 2: industrial land use bylaw review applications processed more efficiently with trustees viewing

[0:39:05] Voice 2: with open minds within their island's official community plan and land use bylaws purview would

[0:39:12] Voice 2: eliminate unnecessary time frustration division within our island secondly the 2007 stantec report

[0:39:23] Voice 2: gave two recommendations to trust council 5.8 focus on the core responsibility i agree with

[0:39:33] Voice 2: many other trust constituents who have written to the trust council during the trust policy review

[0:39:38] Voice 2: review for trustees to focus on their core responsibilities within their jurisdiction.

[0:39:46] Voice 2: 5.9 views technologies more effectively. It has taken over a decade and a global pandemic

[0:39:55] Voice 2: for this second recommendation from the Stantec report to come to actualization with recorded

[0:40:01] Voice 2: Zoom meetings. Trustees need to not only listen, but hear what the consultants and the public

[0:40:08] Voice 2: are saying to them. Again, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.

[0:40:14] Voice 10: Thank you very much, and thank you to all the speakers

[0:40:17] Voice 10: who took the time to speak today. I believe

[0:40:22] Voice 10: we have no further requests

[0:40:25] Voice 10: to speak to us today. I'll just wait a second

[0:40:29] Voice 10: for Laurie to confirm that from her list.

[0:40:36] Voice 10: I'm not

[0:40:37] Voice 1: seeing any further hands.

[0:40:39] Voice 10: okay all right we thank you very much to those who spoke to us uh in this public session so

[0:40:46] Voice 10: we'll we'll now move to our um our business items uh point number five on our agenda

[0:40:53] Voice 10: and um and you'll see there uh basically the the discussion here is as we're nearing the

[0:41:01] Voice 10: conclusion of uh of the project uh we need to confirm the delivery date the motive presentation

[0:41:08] Voice 10: of the of the of the report to trust council and it's supporting that point

[0:41:15] Voice 10: is the the resolution that was made by trustee kale at the the December 1st

[0:41:21] Voice 10: council meeting is included so we had February 7th was our to be our next

[0:41:29] Voice 10: committee meeting with this motion we don't speak to this at the end but with

[0:41:36] Voice 10: this motion it seems to me that the february 7th meeting is now superfluous it's not it's not

[0:41:40] Voice 10: necessary so the original delivery date of the report was february 7th for that reason however

[0:41:45] Voice 10: because i don't believe we'll be having that that meeting um we may may make a decision different

[0:41:51] Voice 10: than that at the end but i i don't think that's likely what therefore is the required delivery

[0:41:58] Voice 10: date for the the report Russ and I touch base on this because I know I we know

[0:42:07] Voice 10: that there is additional time prior to the the council meeting and the

[0:42:11] Voice 10: executive having the the report on the agenda for the for the council meeting

[0:42:16] Voice 10: in early March and working backwards from that date we came up with February

[0:42:20] Voice 10: 11th so mr. Kelly if over to you is that something that you can work with I'm

[0:42:26] Voice 10: sure a few days are always welcome additionally welcome uh

[0:42:30] Voice 7: thanks uh chairman lee uh yeah

[0:42:34] Voice 7: i can assure you the extra days would be very welcome you know we uh you know originally the

[0:42:40] Voice 7: contract had us delivering this report by april 1st so you know we're working hard to accommodate

[0:42:46] Voice 7: the uh you know the time the time cycle of the uh of the trust council and to get this done as

[0:42:53] Voice 7: quickly as possible so we have kind of heads down tails up and you know we're working very hard

[0:42:58] Voice 7: right now you know pulling all the drafts together okay

[0:43:03] Voice 10: thank you uh trustee marston did you have a

[0:43:05] Voice 10: comment yeah

[0:43:08] Trustee Morrison: the motion from the trust council said that the governance report would be received

[0:43:13] Trustee Morrison: by committee members and all trustees on february 7th so i don't know that it's in our power to

[0:43:18] Trustee Morrison: to making it be different.

[0:43:22] Voice 10: Yeah, no fair point.

[0:43:26] Voice 10: Perhaps I could, when faced with a difficult question,

[0:43:30] Voice 10: deflect it to our CAO, Mr. Hudson-Pillard,

[0:43:33] Voice 10: for his comment.

[0:43:36] Voice 11: Yeah, I think, thank you, Mr. Chair.

[0:43:41] Voice 11: I think that Trust Council operates

[0:43:43] Voice 11: with the best information it has at hand

[0:43:46] Voice 11: in any given circumstance.

[0:43:48] Voice 11: And we'll probably speak about that

[0:43:49] Voice 11: just around the in-camera nature

[0:43:50] Voice 11: sure of this throughout the course of today's meeting as well. But so I think they probably

[0:43:56] Voice 11: looked at the February 7th as the last date of a scheduled meeting of this body. I don't think

[0:44:03] Voice 11: there'd be a material difference between February 7th and February 11th. And if you countenance

[0:44:10] Voice 11: that something happened and the report needed some amendment, it's better to have a fulsome

[0:44:14] Voice 11: report than it is to have something just appear on a day that's somewhat arbitrary. So

[0:44:20] Voice 11: So I think it could be considered as reasonable

[0:44:24] Voice 11: to have that date.

[0:44:29] Voice 10: Thank you, CAO.

[0:44:31] Voice 10: Would we need to have a motion, do you believe,

[0:44:33] Voice 10: to receive on the 11th or it's just understood

[0:44:36] Voice 10: that that's now-

[0:44:37] Voice 11: I can certainly, if the committee,

[0:44:41] Voice 11: you're managing this process,

[0:44:42] Voice 11: and if you think the 11th is a better day

[0:44:45] Voice 11: for everyone involved, if you made a motion to that effect,

[0:44:50] Voice 11: fact I'm happy to send something out to all trustees just saying I was at the

[0:44:53] Voice 11: meeting and for these various reasons it's the 11th there's no administrative

[0:44:57] Voice 11: concern and it'll lead to a better product

[0:45:01] Voice 10: so thank you I think I'd go

[0:45:04] Voice 10: ahead and ask for somebody to make that motion please if you would I move that

[0:45:09] Trustee Morrison: we so what would it what would it sound like Russ it would be like I move that

[0:45:14] Trustee Morrison: we change the receive to date for the governance report from February 7th to

[0:45:19] Trustee Morrison: february 11th that's right

[0:45:21] Trustee Morrison: 2022.

[0:45:23] Voice 10: great thank you signing about trustee luckham um and in favor

[0:45:32] Voice 10: great i

[0:45:33] Voice 17: have a question actually uh

[0:45:35] Voice 10: sorry who's is that is that oh

[0:45:39] Voice 10: that's you vice chair yes please

[0:45:42] Voice 17: go ahead yeah just a question uh changing the date to receive it does that change the meeting

[0:45:46] Voice 17: meeting date as well I don't see it as doing that um

[0:45:50] Voice 10: yeah you raise a good maybe we should have that

[0:45:53] Voice 10: discussion now rather than keep it at the end and you know that our next meeting is uh is usually

[0:46:00] Voice 10: discussed at the end point eight but okay what I'm thinking it seems no reason to keep to keep

[0:46:07] Voice 10: that discussion to the end what I'm thinking is because we're not actually reviewing or really

[0:46:11] Voice 10: doing anything with the report as a committee it's simply being received at that date

[0:46:17] Voice 10: and the understanding is it's received by all trustees so not just trustees who are sitting

[0:46:24] Voice 10: on the select committee so i'm not entirely sure what our purpose of meeting would be

[0:46:29] Voice 10: um at that point and so i would i was going to propose that we actually don't have that

[0:46:33] Voice 10: february 7th meeting but i'm open to other other considerations uh trustee brent i

[0:46:42] Voice 4: agree with you

[0:46:42] Voice 4: chair I have seen there's no reason for the meeting whatsoever that I can see so I'm going

[0:46:47] Voice 4: to move that we strike the February 7th meeting um

[0:46:50] Trustee Luckham: did you call the vote on the first motion there

[0:46:53] Trustee Luckham: chair Middleton I don't believe you did

[0:46:55] Voice 16: yes it was I

[0:46:57] Voice 10: guess that that passed the uh the change of

[0:47:00] Voice 10: date to February 11th thank

[0:47:02] Trustee Luckham: you um

[0:47:04] Voice 10: and so on is there a seconder to put this on uh trustee

[0:47:08] Voice 10: Well, Trustee Morrison will say in this case. Discussion, please, if any. All right. May

[0:47:17] Voice 10: I move to the vote then in favor? All right. Thank you. That also carries. Thank you for

[0:47:27] Voice 10: raising that point, Vice-Chair Longrace. Does that conclude the matter satisfactorily?

[0:47:37] Voice 10: Yes.

[0:47:37] Voice 10: maybe okay i heard yes all right thank you um so so the the next i i put this on the agenda

[0:47:47] Voice 10: the consult the point the second bullet point is consultants presentation to trust council

[0:47:52] Voice 10: originally we had called for uh oh i see trustee critchley's hand is up before we proceed

[0:47:58] Voice 10: is there a comment you'd like to make trustee critchley yes

[0:48:03] Trustee Critchley: thank you i was just wondering

[0:48:04] Trustee Critchley: if we were going to have a status report by the consultants as part of this meeting.

[0:48:14] Trustee Critchley: And I would be interested in knowing, in particular, if all the interviews that are contemplated have, in fact, been completed.

[0:48:27] Trustee Critchley: And I actually have a couple of questions, so I'll put them all at once rather than back and forth.

[0:48:32] Trustee Critchley: so one is whether interviews are complete secondly can you say whether at

[0:48:40] Trustee Critchley: least one person was interviewed from each island and thirdly will the names

[0:48:48] Trustee Critchley: of interviewees be listed in the report although I recognize that presumably

[0:48:55] Trustee Critchley: without attribution to what their input would be those are my questions thanks

[0:49:02] Trustee Critchley: just

[0:49:06] Voice 10: muted myself to begin speaking um so thank you trustee chrisley and um um mr kelly do you

[0:49:13] Voice 10: want to before we move on to this fairly discreet point the next one so we can certainly wait if you

[0:49:17] Voice 10: wanted to give us a brief status report and address those questions is that is that acceptable

[0:49:22] Voice 10: for you

[0:49:23] Voice 7: uh yes i can address these you know we interviewed all the interviews are over

[0:49:30] Voice 7: that we contemplated and so we have interviewed all 26 counselors so two from every island and

[0:49:39] Voice 7: they've all been interviewed but the average time was about an hour and a half for each interview

[0:49:44] Voice 7: and so that was a major undertaking in itself we've also interviewed all the major staff

[0:49:50] Voice 7: and executive staff of the of the trust and we've also interviewed you know some people who were not

[0:49:57] Voice 7: not on the executive of the of the trust but some of the individual planners you know just because

[0:50:03] Voice 7: they were working in some unique circumstances that added value to what it is we were doing

[0:50:08] Voice 7: and we've interviewed the um you know some representatives of the regional governments

[0:50:15] Voice 7: and uh and uh you know uh very some outside people but they were all only people we interviewed that

[0:50:24] Voice 7: were uh not formally uh part of the uh formerly part of the trust you know were individuals that

[0:50:32] Voice 7: had either been rec had been a they've been recommended to us you know by the uh uh you

[0:50:39] Voice 7: know by the trustees as a part of the interview process and and a determination whether or not

[0:50:46] Voice 7: they had uh sufficient uh experience with the island trust to offer views that could bring

[0:50:53] Voice 7: some merit to the substance of the governance questions

[0:50:58] Voice 7: we were trying to address.

[0:50:59] Voice 7: So it was very, very specific.

[0:51:01] Voice 7: So in that regard, I'm disinclined,

[0:51:07] Voice 7: but I'm at the will of the committee here

[0:51:10] Voice 7: with respect to whether we identify the people

[0:51:14] Voice 7: that we interviewed that were in the community,

[0:51:17] Voice 7: but we could do that,

[0:51:18] Voice 7: but it just raises more questions

[0:51:21] Voice 7: about you know why this person or another you know it was a judgment on our part you know we

[0:51:27] Voice 7: had a limited amount of time given the uh you know you know almost 50 interviews we we undertook

[0:51:33] Voice 7: uh you know we just and we didn't have a mandate to get involved in any public broad public

[0:51:40] Voice 7: consultation so this was you know you know these interviews that weren't part of the formal

[0:51:45] Voice 7: structure of the trust were you know pretty focused on people who had demonstrated years

[0:51:51] Voice 7: of experience and and had direct dealings with the trusts on around governance issues per se

[0:51:58] Voice 7: so i mean it's it's a judgment call i think on our part it was a judgment a professional judgment

[0:52:04] Voice 7: call whether uh amongst the you know we had about 20 people were recommended i think we probably

[0:52:11] Voice 7: be you know interviewed you know less than 10 you know maybe seven or eight on the outside so

[0:52:17] Voice 7: i just i i don't think there's any real merit to sort of singling those people out and and again

[0:52:23] Voice 7: because we're not none of this is attributed and everything was managed in a confidential manner

[0:52:28] Voice 7: and i don't think they had any uh and we didn't give them any guarantees but we gave them no

[0:52:33] Voice 7: indicate we told them the interviews were confidential and and no attribution but we

[0:52:39] Voice 7: did not tell them at that time that we were going to publish their names as part of this so i'd be

[0:52:45] Voice 7: disinclined to add them

[0:52:50] Voice 10: um trustee critchley do you have any follow-up to to to that does that

[0:52:56] Voice 10: satisfy your questions or no

[0:53:00] Trustee Critchley: yeah thank you uh for the opportunity um yeah i would just say that

[0:53:05] Trustee Critchley: But in the interests of transparency, as to who had, let me say, influence in the compilation

[0:53:14] Trustee Critchley: of the report, I think it would be very appropriate that there be some sort of appendix listing

[0:53:21] Trustee Critchley: the names of everybody who was spoken to, including trustees, government people, and

[0:53:28] Trustee Critchley: And the, what I'll call the other people who, the seven or eight that were interviewed, I think for transparency purposes, that is quite important.

[0:53:40] Trustee Critchley: If necessary, I suppose, I don't know the wording that was used with the interviewees, but if they were led to think that their participation was confidential,

[0:53:50] Trustee Critchley: confidential, I would be concerned about that. And I would want to go back and ask them if they

[0:53:59] Trustee Critchley: had an issue with having their name published, and if not, should be published. If not, if they

[0:54:06] Trustee Critchley: don't give consent, then perhaps it could be stated as being anonymous, but just state the

[0:54:15] Trustee Critchley: island that they are from or something like that but i do think that some listing of of the people

[0:54:21] Trustee Critchley: who had input into the compilation of the report is essential i would say thank you

[0:54:29] Voice 10: thank you trustee

[0:54:30] Voice 10: critchley maybe that seems uh worthy of a pause for comment uh trustee luckham thank

[0:54:36] Trustee Luckham: you i just

[0:54:37] Trustee Luckham: kind of have a follow-up question on that um for the consultant um and that you did indicate that

[0:54:44] Trustee Luckham: you had interviewed some members of regional governments, and that's fine. And I don't

[0:54:49] Trustee Luckham: necessarily expect you to reveal the identities of any of them. But my question is, did you

[0:54:56] Trustee Luckham: interview past or present elected or staff of the provincial government?

[0:55:05] Voice 7: Trying to recall, Peter. We interviewed some people that had previously been,

[0:55:16] Voice 7: some of them that were recommended to us to talk to had previously been members of the uh

[0:55:23] Voice 7: members of the trust and uh don't recall this i'm just going off of memory you got to remember

[0:55:32] Voice 7: you know when you do 45 50 interviews it's uh it gets a bit of a blur you know who's on first

[0:55:40] Voice 7: you know but uh you know there might have been some people who would work for the trust

[0:55:44] Voice 7: Yeah, maybe one, but I actually can't remember or recall.

[0:55:50] Voice 7: Yeah,

[0:55:50] Trustee Luckham: I guess I'm more inclined of the ministry related to the Islanders Trust or any other provincial agent.

[0:55:58] Voice 7: Well,

[0:55:58] Trustee Luckham: that's fine.

[0:56:00] Voice 7: Well, you know, one of the issues that will come in the report, which is no secret, is that the, you know, the provincial ministry of municipal affairs refused to be interviewed.

[0:56:13] Voice 8: yeah

[0:56:14] Voice 7: which gives us some some concern and tells us a story in itself but uh anyway that'll form

[0:56:21] Voice 7: a part of the report yeah but uh but you know you know to uh trustee critchley you know i

[0:56:30] Voice 7: i think it'd be a misnomer you know uh to think that you know that any one of these individual

[0:56:38] Voice 7: individual interviews when we talk to people who've had some direct experience had you know

[0:56:44] Voice 7: weighted any more influence than than in probably less influence than the experience of the

[0:56:53] Voice 7: trustees you know because our focus was you can see that we had 26 interviews with trustees we

[0:56:58] Voice 7: really did a very deep dive into the expectations around governance of the trustees and and you

[0:57:05] Voice 7: you know, thoughtfully asking them very careful questions, and we've done a kind of a cross

[0:57:10] Voice 7: analysis of these 26 interviews in terms of the commonalities and the things we learned from it.

[0:57:15] Voice 7: A lot of the staff work, you know, was giving us, you know, good information, and, you know,

[0:57:22] Voice 7: based on what they do and how they put it, what their emphasis is and some of their issues, but

[0:57:28] Voice 7: when it comes to the report itself, the, you know, if there was anything I could report,

[0:57:32] Voice 7: important, the strongest factors here, the interviews with the trustees and our own experience

[0:57:38] Voice 7: in governance.

[0:57:43] Voice 10: Thank you. Any comments there in terms of respondents being identified or thoughts on

[0:57:55] Voice 10: that either way from other committee members? Trustee Cahill, please.

[0:58:00] Voice 10: please.

[0:58:01] Voice 14: Yes, I listened very carefully to what Trustee Critchley said. And I'm thinking that

[0:58:08] Voice 14: when I mean, many trustees will have nominated people as possible interviewees. And maybe we

[0:58:16] Voice 14: didn't spell it out. Certainly that the interview would be confidential. Yes, that was spelled out.

[0:58:23] Voice 14: You know, and I hope Trustee Critchley will bear with me because I was I can't recall exactly what

[0:58:29] Voice 14: i've said but i'm kind of uncomfortable that their names are going to be appended to this document it

[0:58:35] Voice 14: it it doesn't seem right sometime how somehow the the consultants have done their job and they've

[0:58:42] Voice 14: interviewed the the people they've set out to interview um we as as trustees well fair enough

[0:58:50] Voice 14: yes we certainly should be mentioned that all trustees were interviewed i i'm just not so sure

[0:58:55] Voice 14: I am not so comfortable with the others being mentioned and it raises the opportunity as well

[0:59:02] Voice 14: of saying well if that person why not that person and and and so it goes on and this may be something

[0:59:11] Voice 14: that we don't want to get involved in so um I'm a little open-minded on this but if I was

[0:59:18] Voice 14: asked to vote on it now I would say please don't do this this makes me feel very uncomfortable that

[0:59:24] Voice 14: the people who were nominated and interviewed and now have their name attached to this and i i think

[0:59:30] Voice 14: in our communities that doesn't bode well and i and it doesn't doesn't make me uh feel good at all

[0:59:36] Voice 14: so i hope i hope they're able to sidestep this somehow thank

[0:59:41] Voice 10: you uh thank you trustee kiff um

[0:59:45] Voice 10: trustee just keep right i think you were i recognize you trustee morrison but i think

[0:59:49] Voice 10: i think trustee wright has hand up first if i'm wrong pardon me but go ahead please trustee wright

[0:59:56] Voice 3: I don't think any names were attached to the Stantec report.

[0:59:59] Voice 3: I don't see any.

[1:00:00] Voice 3: Any advice I should be able to touch on this one, frankly, thanks.

[1:00:05] Voice 10: Trustee Morrison?

[1:00:07] Trustee Morrison: I think it probably should be in motion,

[1:00:09] Trustee Morrison: so I'm happy to put one on the table just so we're clear for the consultants.

[1:00:14] Trustee Morrison: So I'll move a motion and then speak to it.

[1:00:17] Trustee Morrison: So I move that the – and maybe, Charles,

[1:00:26] Trustee Morrison: if you can help me with what exactly the language would be around,

[1:00:29] Trustee Morrison: around like i moved that the um specific individuals interviewed for the report not

[1:00:38] Trustee Morrison: be listed not be named in the report looks

[1:00:44] Voice 10: like just trustee right yeah seconds um is that is

[1:00:51] Trustee Morrison: before we get it seconded is that roughly the right language i think

[1:00:55] Voice 7: that's very clear in terms

[1:00:56] Voice 7: instructions to us okay

[1:00:58] Trustee Morrison: thank you okay go for it steve so

[1:01:01] Voice 10: steve seconds trustee right uh thank you

[1:01:04] Voice 10: for seconding uh discussion please yeah

[1:01:07] Trustee Morrison: if i can just speak to that um so so for me i i feel both

[1:01:12] Trustee Morrison: ways actually about it but um because i'm deeply curious personally about who was interviewed but

[1:01:18] Trustee Morrison: i actually really hear what uh trustee kaylee is saying and i think that that's important like

[1:01:25] Trustee Morrison: Like, the goal of this process, which, you know, I did vote for this process, and the

[1:01:31] Trustee Morrison: goal of this process is to provide solid recommendations that we can think through as a council and

[1:01:39] Trustee Morrison: figure out what steps might be needed going forward with the trust to make it more responsive

[1:01:46] Trustee Morrison: to community, to make it governed in a way that, like, we think it's just going to rock,

[1:01:51] Trustee Morrison: okay?

[1:01:51] Trustee Morrison: So, and I feel it's potentially divisive.

[1:01:55] Trustee Morrison: to list the names and i also feel that we took care in writing out the call we took care in

[1:02:03] Trustee Morrison: selecting a consultant and we need to have their professional guidance they're very experienced

[1:02:09] Trustee Morrison: and like i trust them that they're doing what they need to do so i i will go to in favor

[1:02:16] Voice 10: thank you trustee morrison trustee uh vice chair langrace yeah

[1:02:20] Voice 17: yeah i agree with uh not uh post

[1:02:23] Voice 17: to names if you think about it i mean trustees were interviewed staff were interviewed that's

[1:02:29] Voice 17: going to be the primary focus of whatever the report brings out the public members would be

[1:02:35] Voice 17: sort of sort of like a litmus test is there similarities or and i can't see if the trustees

[1:02:41] Voice 17: say this and a couple of your people make different comments you know what's going to hold

[1:02:48] Voice 17: sway are they going to take the view of 10 people or eight people or whatever it was

[1:02:54] Voice 17: and as the guiding point no i don't see that i don't see that as being the it's really just

[1:03:00] Voice 17: checking out with the public in a limited way you know is it consistent with internal abuse by staff

[1:03:08] Voice 17: and and planners and the executive in that zone uh

[1:03:13] Voice 10: thank you uh by shayla trustee critchley please

[1:03:21] Trustee Critchley: thank you so thank you for the discussion um i appreciated getting it out on the table there

[1:03:27] Trustee Critchley: i think from what has been said you've actually convinced me that uh it is a better the better

[1:03:33] Trustee Critchley: practice to not name them uh primarily because of the concern about how they might be treated

[1:03:38] Trustee Critchley: in the communities and if they had an expectation of confidentiality when they entered into it so

[1:03:43] Trustee Critchley: uh thank you very much for the discussion i

[1:03:47] Voice 10: think thank you uh trustee kitchley and thank you for

[1:03:51] Voice 10: your openness and in engaging in dialogue that's always refreshing um and so i i guess at that at

[1:03:58] Voice 10: that venture uh juncture perhaps i could call the vote if there's anyone else who wishes to speak

[1:04:03] Voice 10: i've obviously will hear you but otherwise i'd entertain a vote those in favor that passes

[1:04:14] Voice 10: thank you very much um is there anything else that we want to ask by a general update of the

[1:04:21] Voice 10: consultants at this point before we move on to some of the specifics of the delivery okay seeing

[1:04:32] Voice 10: on let's get into that then so i i put the consultants presentation to trust council on

[1:04:37] Voice 10: the agenda because i i just wanted to be clear on the record about this we had originally thought

[1:04:43] Voice 10: that uh and the way back at the beginning of this process that we would task the consultants with

[1:04:51] Voice 10: with preparing a sort of a PowerPoint overview

[1:04:54] Voice 10: of their recommendations for public consumption.

[1:04:57] Voice 10: Now, as the project has evolved

[1:05:00] Voice 10: and as council's engaged on this issue,

[1:05:03] Voice 10: that obviously is no longer appropriate

[1:05:04] Voice 10: as we're receiving the report confidentially

[1:05:07] Voice 10: and we'll have a chance to discuss in camera currently

[1:05:12] Voice 10: the recommendations with the consultants.

[1:05:15] Voice 10: So I just want to be clear that any reporting out

[1:05:19] Voice 10: on the recommendations will be a project of staff and trustees in collaboration

[1:05:24] Voice 10: as a communications exercise following receipt of the report it won't it isn't

[1:05:29] Voice 10: actually something that we're now asking or tasking the consultants with that

[1:05:34] Voice 10: currently my understanding is we will be receiving and there's more to say on

[1:05:40] Voice 10: this topic I know but currently we'll be receiving the report confidentially and

[1:05:46] Voice 10: will have a chance to digest the contents and then address questions and comments to the consultants

[1:05:53] Voice 10: in at an in-camera session of trust council in march so this may be an appropriate juncture to

[1:06:02] Voice 10: i know uh we've we've talked about the nature of uh receipt of the report in confidence and

[1:06:07] Voice 10: does that have a standing is that the same as in camera um because of course that's a necessary

[1:06:13] Voice 10: a precursor to understanding how the presentation will occur at trust council so to to that end i i

[1:06:20] Voice 10: don't want to put you on the spot so hudson peller with any comment maybe you could sort of generally

[1:06:26] Voice 10: kick off your understanding and then we'll turn trustee morrison i see your hand is up we'll turn

[1:06:30] Voice 10: to comment from the uh the committee members okay

[1:06:34] Voice 11: well i'd always defer to an elected official when

[1:06:37] Voice 11: they have their hand up in front of me but um if you're asking a specific question i'm happy

[1:06:42] Voice 11: to step in and uh and say a few things um yeah if we look at page two of our agenda and 5.1 and we

[1:06:51] Voice 11: see the um the actual direction from trust council that a governance report be received by committee

[1:06:57] Voice 11: members and all trustees february 7th is a confidential document be received in camera

[1:07:01] Voice 11: with the consultants at the march council meeting for release immediately following

[1:07:05] Voice 11: there's three or four elements associated with that um we've addressed the uh the date which

[1:07:11] Voice 11: i think is is reasonable um when we're talking about a confidential document it's it's uh it's

[1:07:17] Voice 11: governed by foipa when we're talking about in camera meetings that's um governed by the

[1:07:22] Voice 11: community charter and when we receive the report and are preparing the agenda if the document does

[1:07:29] Voice 11: not have in camera elements that you can go into section 90 of the community charter and establish

[1:07:35] Voice 11: establish what those are then it would necessarily be a public document and in a way we'd be working

[1:07:42] Voice 11: against Trust Council's direction but of course as I said before Trust Council can't operate in

[1:07:49] Voice 11: perfect information all the time it can reasonably some period out you know this is a fundamental

[1:07:54] Voice 11: document a fundamental review they don't really know what the nature of there could be implications

[1:08:00] Voice 11: patients to staffing or negotiations with others, all to be determined when the report lands.

[1:08:06] Voice 11: So at that time, it'll be determined whether there's actual, you know, Section 9 ability to

[1:08:13] Voice 11: go in camera, and then we would. And otherwise, it will just be treated like any other document

[1:08:18] Voice 11: received on the agenda and put forward, and it'll go through the executive committee as it

[1:08:23] Voice 11: regularly does. And I think that it's perfectly reasonable to receive it as confidential as I've

[1:08:29] Voice 11: described there's a separate part of the of our governing legislation governing documentation and

[1:08:37] Voice 11: acts that would would manage that so that trustees can review the document

[1:08:42] Voice 11: and then we'll move into the actual in-camera portion and those deliberations so I just want

[1:08:48] Voice 11: to hopefully that helps in terms of actually speaking about the slide deck I mean I think

[1:08:53] Voice 11: that question can be interpreted a lot of ways I would leave it to the consultants how they best

[1:08:58] Voice 11: want to present in an hour or however much time is slotted.

[1:09:04] Voice 11: Quite often a PowerPoint slide or deck is helpful

[1:09:08] Voice 11: to get many ideas condensed down

[1:09:11] Voice 11: into something that's digestible for a group.

[1:09:15] Voice 11: So certainly that, I think that could still happen

[1:09:18] Voice 11: if that's a preferred way of communicating the material.

[1:09:21] Voice 11: As opposed to a slide deck that is then put out

[1:09:25] Voice 11: as a published product.

[1:09:30] Voice 11: associated with the engagement, which I don't think is necessarily required at this point

[1:09:35] Voice 11: in time. Keep in mind, once the document is received, it's going to have a long life

[1:09:40] Voice 11: after its receipt, as it's contemplated by Trust Council at both the March meeting and

[1:09:45] Voice 11: subsequent meetings.

[1:09:48] Voice 10: Is that helpful? Yes, thank you, CAO Huntsmiller. I might just make it because

[1:09:52] Voice 10: it's a rather small point before we turn to what I think the committee members are going to be

[1:09:57] Voice 10: speaking to is just that just on the record then there is no requirement for a standalone

[1:10:04] Voice 10: presentation that outlines the the results of the the review the document itself performs

[1:10:12] Voice 10: that function and so that that to me makes perfect sense so now turning to the comments

[1:10:21] Voice 10: comments of the trustees uh trustee Morrison your hand was up first please thank

[1:10:25] Trustee Morrison: you um

[1:10:26] Trustee Morrison: I also was wondering about um I don't think we have ever seen an outline of the report I'm trying

[1:10:35] Trustee Morrison: to remember if we have in the fall or not but um I'm I'm hoping I guess that there will be some

[1:10:41] Trustee Morrison: form of executive summary um because one of the well I don't think we need slides I do think that

[1:10:49] Trustee Morrison: the consultants need to in their own words summarize the report into a sort of public

[1:10:57] Trustee Morrison: facing piece and i know staff will also probably do some pieces of that but one of the reasons

[1:11:02] Trustee Morrison: where we're in the space we are with a governance review is distrust of the trust right and so it's

[1:11:10] Trustee Morrison: i don't think it's appropriate to put that into staff hands and like put staff at risk honestly

[1:11:17] Trustee Morrison: honestly, frankly, of having to summarize a governance report. So I think it would be

[1:11:23] Trustee Morrison: helpful to have an executive summary produced by the consultants that people can reference.

[1:11:29] Trustee Morrison: And other things can be wrapped around that as we engage in communications, but that it

[1:11:33] Trustee Morrison: is actually the consultants who produce the executive summary. So that would be one comment.

[1:11:39] Trustee Morrison: And then I don't see any need for slides because that's just a different form of summarizing

[1:11:44] Trustee Morrison: things and I think it's better just to have it as a one or two page summary um and then just in

[1:11:50] Trustee Morrison: terms of the reasoning about the thanks very much um Russ for the um the differences in you know how

[1:11:57] Trustee Morrison: we're thinking about whether it's received in confidence and what you know confident or what uh

[1:12:03] Trustee Morrison: in camera is and if we even go into that in the March meeting so I think we do need to communicate

[1:12:09] Trustee Morrison: to communicate that somehow quite clearly that it's not actually given that the conversation that happens in March will be in camera, because there has to be some very specific reason for it to be in camera, otherwise it's part of the public agenda.

[1:12:25] Trustee Morrison: So, and I think that needs to be communicated because I don't even from the speakers today I don't feel that that's clearly understood.

[1:12:31] Trustee Morrison: understood um so that would be helpful thank you and the reasoning for the way the motion is

[1:12:37] Trustee Morrison: currently written is in the December video if anybody wants to see that thank

[1:12:43] Voice 10: you um maybe if

[1:12:45] Voice 10: you if you're with your indulgence vice chair Lange Grace we could just jump to our our consultant

[1:12:49] Voice 10: lead right now who has his hand up um and perhaps has a comment in response um Mr Kelly if you'd

[1:12:56] Voice 10: like to go ahead

[1:12:56] Voice 7: yes i'd just like to assure um trustee morrison that uh there will be an

[1:13:03] Voice 7: executive summit and uh and it's we're working on it as we speak so it's underway okay so thank you

[1:13:15] Voice 10: thank you yeah and my comment is maybe i can just uh uh simplify it the it is not the consultant's

[1:13:24] Voice 10: job to um communicate the results of their report to the broader public in any way that would then

[1:13:31] Voice 10: be at the discretion of trust council upon receipt of the report how we wish to or not wish to

[1:13:37] Voice 10: communicate the results of the recommendations um so that would be a subsequent discussion for for

[1:13:43] Voice 10: council to have so uh thank you uh i believe it was vice chair longways followed by trustee

[1:13:49] Voice 10: Critchley and then Trustee Cahill.

[1:13:52] Voice 17: Yeah this is just a follow-up to what CEO Hottensfeller

[1:13:55] Voice 17: mentioned about the meeting on the 11th and we're going to be receiving an in-camera document

[1:14:01] Voice 17: and then presumably at that point in time we're going to be determining whether there is

[1:14:06] Voice 17: information there that needs to be received in camera which then would employ it and if that

[1:14:11] Voice 17: is the case then presumably at the in-camera meeting we will be reviewing it again and then

[1:14:17] Voice 17: what releasing a modified report that strips out or somehow like that's where i'm not clear on the

[1:14:23] Voice 17: process because usually something in camera is kept in camera and then you you don't publish it

[1:14:30] Voice 17: so i'm just not clear on that process and if on february the 11th we say there's no confidentiality

[1:14:37] Voice 17: issue you know it's okay to report when does it get released in if there would be no in-camera

[1:14:44] Voice 17: our meeting on on that topic at the march trust council meeting so i'm just not clear on the

[1:14:49] Voice 17: process um

[1:14:51] Voice 10: yeah thank you do you want to take a shot at that seal sure yeah

[1:14:54] Voice 11: so um just um allow

[1:14:57] Voice 11: for all things won't be known right now and all things won't be known on february 11th um

[1:15:04] Voice 11: so there is a process and we're trying to honor trust council's direction operating with the best

[1:15:10] Voice 11: information it had at the time and working through to getting this document

[1:15:17] Voice 11: out in an appropriate way so the executive committee meets before every

[1:15:24] Voice 11: Trust Council session and reviews it gets staff reporting on all those all

[1:15:29] Voice 11: the materials that go forward and as part of that process the document will

[1:15:33] Voice 11: be reviewed staff will look at the document and see whether it meets or it

[1:15:38] Voice 11: has a recommendation to to be in camera or not and then we'll make a recommendation to executive

[1:15:44] Voice 11: committee who will then if it does have those elements it will be conducted just as you see the

[1:15:49] Voice 11: direction here on the screen and if it doesn't meet the threshold for an in-camera meeting

[1:15:56] Voice 11: then it will be presumably just put on the public agenda and it's almost that simple i don't see a

[1:16:03] Voice 11: role for trust council between february 11th and the publishing of the agenda there's no decision

[1:16:08] Voice 11: moment there that i think that's going to advance this in any way um your second question around if

[1:16:14] Voice 11: there was in camera materials that then had to stay in camera um that i guess that's possible

[1:16:22] Voice 11: and then we go through um a rise of report process or a redaction process or whatever was deemed

[1:16:27] Voice 11: appropriate at the time but that would be for the conversation of Trust Council

[1:16:33] Voice 11: if indeed we were in an in-camera meeting okay thank you

[1:16:37] Voice 11: that's the best I

[1:16:38] Voice 11: can do on short notice yeah thank

[1:16:40] Voice 10: you thank you very much and trustee

[1:16:44] Voice 10: Critchley please yes

[1:16:47] Trustee Critchley: thank you my question is along the same lines and I'm

[1:16:51] Trustee Critchley: wondering if uh mr kelly uh would it be practical and i'm saying this in in about concerns of being

[1:17:02] Trustee Critchley: as candid as you possibly can um would it be possible to if there are let's call them sensitive

[1:17:13] Trustee Critchley: matters matters regarding personnel which would would rightly be the subject

[1:17:19] Trustee Critchley: of an in-camera process would it be reasonable for for the report to not

[1:17:28] Trustee Critchley: include those in in the body of the report but rather in some sort of

[1:17:33] Trustee Critchley: in-camera addendum that could be handled separately that you know I'm concerned

[1:17:42] Trustee Critchley: that one when the matter is dealt with by Trust Council there will be certain

[1:17:48] Trustee Critchley: expectations of the public that this report is going to be made public sort

[1:17:54] Trustee Critchley: of right right away or on the heels of that and if it is not and if there's a

[1:17:59] Trustee Critchley: redaction process that's I think going to be problematic I would for my part

[1:18:05] Trustee Critchley: really like to see something the bod the bulk of the report if not all of it be

[1:18:11] Trustee Critchley: released to the public on that day um so mr kelly i'm wondering if mr chair my suggestion has any

[1:18:18] Trustee Critchley: yes

[1:18:19] Voice 10: i think if with your in um if you're uh indulgence ceo if you could comment on the

[1:18:26] Voice 10: the legalities of that before we turn to mr kelly that would be appreciated well with

[1:18:30] Voice 11: respect this

[1:18:31] Voice 11: is a select committee meeting trust council has asked and provided direction as we see on the

[1:18:37] Voice 11: screen and we need to or i need to um assist in getting trust council um it's its wishes met and

[1:18:47] Voice 11: uh don't see a room for parsing out um various pieces at various times um they've um directions

[1:18:55] Voice 11: been provided here and i don't know a mechanism i'm not and with respect i speak to mr kelly but

[1:19:02] Voice 11: But for Mr. Kelly to be forced to start to wean through the report on what he thinks should be in or shouldn't be in,

[1:19:11] Voice 11: I don't think is really, he probably doesn't want that job and it wouldn't be his to do.

[1:19:17] Voice 11: Either way, we would need to conduct our own analysis because we're responsible under the charter

[1:19:24] Voice 11: to make sure that things are appropriate from a community charter perspective.

[1:19:26] Voice 11: So I think at this point it would be challenging for the Select Committee to start working its way through the document one way or another to say what should be in camera and what shouldn't.

[1:19:43] Voice 10: Thank you very much. I take it, Mr Kelly, you're in agreement with the comments of the CAO there in that regard.

[1:19:53] Voice 10: and so trustee Critchley do you have any follow-up to that or well I'm not

[1:20:02] Trustee Critchley: suggesting that it be the be-all and end-all or take away from staff the the

[1:20:08] Trustee Critchley: exercise of their professional judgment in deciding what should on the face of

[1:20:14] Trustee Critchley: it being an in-camera meeting I'm just wondering that from a practical point of

[1:20:19] Trustee Critchley: view, if there are some elements of the report, and there may not be, that are clearly of an in

[1:20:26] Trustee Critchley: camera nature, then from my point of view, it would just be practical and useful for those to

[1:20:33] Trustee Critchley: be separated. And I'm not suggesting in any way that this committee would be involved in that

[1:20:40] Trustee Critchley: that process at all. Nor am I seeking to oust the prerogatives of staff in recommending what

[1:20:49] Trustee Critchley: is in camera. In fact, it would be perfectly in order, in my view, for the consultants to work

[1:20:58] Trustee Critchley: with staff in terms of what should be in the in-camera document portion. That's my thought on

[1:21:06] Trustee Critchley: And I'm not seeking to to parse the elements of what Trust Council has has ordered.

[1:21:16] Trustee Critchley: In fact, I think it's entirely consistent with it. But perhaps that's a that's a view that is only shared by me.

[1:21:25] Voice 10: Thank you, Trustee Kishley-Petzl. I'll move on to some other comments.

[1:21:29] Voice 10: Did you have Mr. Kelly, your hand is up, so it seems fair we hear from you at this point.

[1:21:35] Voice 10: and um yeah

[1:21:36] Voice 7: i just want to make it clear to uh this committee and to your executive committee

[1:21:41] Voice 7: and others that are looking at these things um this whole question of in camera and not in camera

[1:21:45] Voice 7: now this is only the uh discussion of the trust council it was never never part of our mandate

[1:21:52] Voice 7: one way or another and this is your decision we work for the trust council and and we're advised

[1:21:58] Voice 7: by this committee, but we were hired to produce a professional report, and we're going to produce

[1:22:07] Voice 7: that report. We have no intention of negotiating one piece of it or that piece of it. It's going

[1:22:15] Voice 7: to stand on its own merits. When we make the presentation, our plan is to have two of our

[1:22:23] Voice 7: consultants at the meeting if it's wherever the meeting is going to be so they're in person

[1:22:28] Voice 7: and they can uh you know be there to make a representation on what's in the report and why

[1:22:34] Voice 7: and take questions from all 26 counselors uh and two of us will be on will be uh on video

[1:22:42] Voice 7: you know but they only afford us in two so uh it'll be you know james roach and uh and uh

[1:22:49] Voice 7: And Mary Antoinette will be the two that will be making the presentation.

[1:22:55] Voice 7: And you're not going to be blitzed by slides.

[1:22:57] Voice 7: We're going to provide an outline, and we'll provide a very strong oral representation of what to expect.

[1:23:05] Voice 7: And if you've all been interviewed by AMF, and you know that you'll get a very clear view of what our thinking is

[1:23:13] Voice 7: and what we've learned and what's behind what we're recommending,

[1:23:15] Voice 7: me and we're more than happy to you know to defend those recommendations and the content of the

[1:23:21] Voice 7: report and so i just leave it at that but this whole in camera out camera this is uh this does

[1:23:28] Voice 7: nothing to do with it we don't see it this is your role this is your request it was never part of

[1:23:33] Voice 7: anything we had to do

[1:23:36] Voice 10: um thank you very much um uh before we move to trustee kale did you have your

[1:23:41] Voice 10: henry's ceo okay no no no problem at all um trustee kale please thank

[1:23:51] Voice 14: you chair i'm very

[1:23:53] Voice 14: glad this has come up from conversation because this this whole subject actually has taken a part

[1:23:58] Voice 14: of my weekend in discussion with with many people who actually uh are viewing this rather more

[1:24:05] Voice 14: serious uh very seriously now my answer to the questions has been based upon the uh motion that

[1:24:13] Voice 14: i i moved is that and i used september the 7th february 7th this was at that date the the um

[1:24:22] Voice 14: report would be received by all all of us all trustees and i made it very clear that the

[1:24:28] Voice 14: steering group had no prior rights to this we would get it the same day as everybody else

[1:24:35] Voice 14: and it was the confidential property of the trustees up to the date of the march meeting

[1:24:43] Voice 14: And once received, there is no way that committee, that report could be altered, tampered, interfered, redacted, or any other form of general, in inverted commas, messing around with that document.

[1:24:58] Voice 14: That is, for better or for worse, the document.

[1:25:01] Voice 14: We now move on to our March meeting.

[1:25:04] Voice 14: So the question is, when the trustees are asking their questions and they're having the presentation from the consultants, is that something that is going to be done in camera?

[1:25:23] Voice 14: Or is that part of the open meeting of our March trustees meeting?

[1:25:28] Voice 14: And I can tell you this, that if it is to be a closed meeting, then there are many out there who will quiz very tightly and very closely the exact reasons for calling a closed meeting.

[1:25:45] Voice 14: I would say without doubt, the general hope is that it would be a open meeting. And if for any reason a decision was taken for it to be a closed meeting, then I think people will set us on notice now, and if not, I'll do it on their behalf, that we better be very certain that we have our ducks in a row

[1:26:10] Voice 14: as to the precise legal reasons as to why we are enabling a closed meeting, because otherwise

[1:26:17] Voice 14: it should, to all intents and purposes, be part of our regular quarterly meeting and held

[1:26:26] Voice 14: to the view of all. A second question followed this is that after that part of the conference,

[1:26:35] Voice 14: our meeting, our three-day meeting, whatever part it plays, whether it's on the first,

[1:26:39] Voice 14: second or third day that once the session is over with with the trustees and then we move

[1:26:48] Voice 14: on to the next item of the agenda hopefully using the word immediate as my key word here

[1:26:56] Voice 14: the report would be put on to the islands trust website because again there is real

[1:27:02] Voice 14: some really real concern, and I will be honest and say mistrust, of the length of time it will take

[1:27:10] Voice 14: to get the report following our meeting or part of our meeting. And my suggestion is that the

[1:27:17] Voice 14: moment that section of the meeting is concluded, then the consultant's report goes straight away

[1:27:24] Voice 14: onto the Islands Trust website, where it can be reviewed by the general public or anybody else,

[1:27:30] Voice 14: Which is really what we have, I think, promised and undertaken to do.

[1:27:36] Voice 14: So the warning signs are, if it is to be a private meeting, a closed meeting with the consultants, we better be able to justify why that is.

[1:27:50] Voice 14: Hopefully we won't have to be, and it will be an open meeting.

[1:27:53] Voice 14: And then once that section of our meeting is concluded, it can there and then be posted on the website.

[1:28:02] Voice 14: So we have lived up to the motion that I was, you know, with others instrumental in crafting.

[1:28:09] Voice 14: Because if we don't live up to this, I think we'll pay the price and rightly so.

[1:28:15] Voice 14: So those those are the points I picked up from my many discussions this weekend.

[1:28:21] Voice 14: end and I hope we will take that this point these points very seriously thank you thank you yeah

[1:28:29] Voice 10: thank you Trustee Cahill for those comments and Trustee Morrison please

[1:28:34] Trustee Morrison: I myself agree with Trustee Cahill a lot today it's fascinating um so I um yes I echo much of

[1:28:43] Trustee Morrison: what you said Michael I I think the one addition I would make to that is I do think the executive

[1:28:50] Trustee Morrison: executive committee might want to consider on their next agenda,

[1:28:54] Trustee Morrison: what kind of guidance they can provide

[1:28:57] Trustee Morrison: all trustees as a reminder of what's in camera and what's not,

[1:29:02] Trustee Morrison: because one of the things that I can see

[1:29:05] Trustee Morrison: is a potential issue that could come up is that I don't necessarily think it will be

[1:29:10] Trustee Morrison: an in-camera meeting because I don't think we'll have any reason to make it in camera.

[1:29:14] Trustee Morrison: And if it's not in camera,

[1:29:16] Trustee Morrison: the only thing that potentially puts it at risk in terms of encountering issues is the way in

[1:29:23] Trustee Morrison: which trustees process and ask questions or or say things so like there there is so for instance

[1:29:30] Trustee Morrison: I'll give an example an example would be our relationships with First Nations like the way

[1:29:37] Trustee Morrison: in which we discuss pieces of governance that may relate to First Nations and how we are doing that

[1:29:43] Trustee Morrison: that in a way that doesn't jeopardize our relationships,

[1:29:46] Trustee Morrison: our ongoing and building relationships with First Nations.

[1:29:49] Trustee Morrison: So somewhere, and I don't know exactly what the language is

[1:29:52] Trustee Morrison: for the in-camera language,

[1:29:53] Trustee Morrison: but I know that there's potential

[1:29:54] Trustee Morrison: that that could fall into that.

[1:29:56] Trustee Morrison: And so I just think that it would be helpful.

[1:30:00] Trustee Morrison: for trustees to have some guidance

[1:30:01] Trustee Morrison: as they start to share their comments

[1:30:03] Trustee Morrison: or ask questions and think together

[1:30:05] Trustee Morrison: so that we don't get ourselves into a bit of soup

[1:30:08] Trustee Morrison: where there's a lot of like points of order going on

[1:30:10] Trustee Morrison: one trustee to another and everybody gets a little heated.

[1:30:16] Voice 10: Thank you, Trustee Morrison.

[1:30:19] Voice 10: Any further comments on that vein

[1:30:25] Voice 10: of the in-camera nature or not of the receipt of the report

[1:30:30] Voice 10: and its immediate timing and release thereof?

[1:30:33] Voice 10: uh trustee luckham please well

[1:30:36] Trustee Luckham: um i just want to say that um the legislation that protects

[1:30:43] Trustee Luckham: the government and protects the public interest is completely clear and uh any decision will be

[1:30:50] Trustee Luckham: based upon the context of that legislation which is not ours not our policy not our decision it

[1:30:57] Trustee Luckham: is provided to us uh to protect the interests of the government and protect the the uh the freedom

[1:31:05] Trustee Luckham: of access to information of the public so it's uh it's clear in my mind thank you thank you

[1:31:13] Voice 10: thank you very much um that seems like and per generally the the comments it seems that that

[1:31:22] Voice 10: process has contemplated in the uh in the motion is is clear in the decision about whether or not

[1:31:28] Voice 10: the um um the presentation will be made in camera will will be dictated by both the content of the

[1:31:38] Voice 10: report and the interpretation of that content through the lens of the act i guess what is

[1:31:44] Voice 10: hinged on some of trustee kale's comments there is word immediately in terms of the release of

[1:31:49] Voice 10: the report i don't think we've resolved that issue fully um how how is the release of the

[1:31:56] Voice 10: report currently contemplated in in our our mind might i i just put that to you ceo hudson

[1:32:02] Voice 10: peller as to what your current understanding or view on that is i

[1:32:06] Voice 11: really don't i think i've given

[1:32:07] Voice 11: you as much as i've got chair middleton um around that um like i said earlier we will

[1:32:15] Voice 11: first of all i'm perfectly confident that the report will be in the public realm i just have

[1:32:22] Voice 11: no concerns about that one way or another um i think that is absolutely going to be the case

[1:32:27] Voice 11: um though i don't have all the information nor do all of you um at this point and

[1:32:34] Voice 11: um i've already hypothesized on what could be in the report from an in-camera perspective and what

[1:32:40] Voice 11: local governments do with in-camera materials if they want to rise and report on it

[1:32:44] Voice 11: um so i think we'll just have to see at this point thank you but uh obviously hearing that there's

[1:32:51] Voice 11: There's significant interest to get the totality of the report into the public sphere as soon

[1:32:59] Voice 11: as possible.

[1:33:00] Voice 11: Absolutely understood.

[1:33:02] Voice 11: Thank

[1:33:02] Voice 10: you very much.

[1:33:04] Voice 10: Vice Chair Longerace, please.

[1:33:06] Voice 17: Just as a follow-up, I've been thinking about this, February 7th, we're not going to have

[1:33:10] Voice 17: a meeting.

[1:33:11] Voice 17: On February 11th, we're not having a meeting per se.

[1:33:15] Voice 17: We're just going to be receiving the document as a confidential document.

[1:33:20] Voice 17: right we're not actually holding a meeting because if we're holding a meeting it has to be open

[1:33:24] Voice 17: unless we invoke the the local government act requirement to go in camera so i i guess my sense

[1:33:32] Voice 17: now is that we're not really having a meeting on february the 11th uh

[1:33:35] Voice 10: that's my understanding yeah

[1:33:37] Voice 10: yeah

[1:33:37] Voice 17: yeah so then at that af we'll get it in camera we'll get it as a confidential document

[1:33:42] Voice 17: then it'll go also go to executive they will make a decision at their meeting and with staff's

[1:33:48] Voice 17: involvement review as to whether there's anything confidential that would require us to go into an

[1:33:52] Voice 17: in-camera meeting in March and then at March if there is an in-camera session on it we're going

[1:34:00] Voice 17: to then make some sort of decision I guess as to how we're going to release the report at that

[1:34:06] Voice 17: point in time or or will that be done by executive like I'm just again I'm just a little uncertain

[1:34:13] Voice 17: certain is the process around that, around how you handle that.

[1:34:19] Voice 10: Well, I think our CEO has given that as full an explanation as he can.

[1:34:25] Voice 10: So I might interpret and please humor me if I'm misquoting.

[1:34:29] Voice 10: But basically, if there's specific in-camera information and by that being

[1:34:34] Voice 10: specific, what I would imagine is for somehow if it's names or a name could

[1:34:39] Voice 10: easily be inferred due to like, I don't feel that this will be the case.

[1:34:43] Voice 10: But let's say it is.

[1:34:44] Voice 10: and let's say that's content in the report that one could infer precisely the the name of individual

[1:34:49] Voice 10: staff members then my understanding is by rights that's an in-camera matter and that's not something

[1:34:53] Voice 10: that you would want to see released uh to the public for you know the health and well-being of

[1:34:59] Voice 10: said individuals so if that is in the report when we receive it in camera there may be a decision

[1:35:07] Voice 10: that that is then you know withheld from the report that is released now there's a lot of

[1:35:12] Voice 10: assumptions there our assumption is another the counter assumption is there

[1:35:16] Voice 10: isn't content of that nature we received the report and it is basically good

[1:35:22] Voice 10: there's be no reason to not say it's good to go for general release following

[1:35:25] Voice 10: our our review of the of the recommendations now the original motion

[1:35:31] Voice 10: was that the report be received in confidence my understanding was it was

[1:35:37] Voice 10: out of a sense of allowing trustees to digest the content of the recommendations

[1:35:43] Voice 10: in advance of it being released to public so that they weren't either

[1:35:48] Voice 10: blindsided or not able to kind of comment intelligently on what's in the

[1:35:52] Voice 10: report because they received it at the same time as the public that that was

[1:35:55] Voice 10: the rationale behind the the delayed release so that I as far as I can see

[1:36:01] Voice 10: that that mechanism is still at play as a CEO said that we sort of do have to

[1:36:07] Voice 10: wait to see what is in the report before we can to map out the steps down the road but

[1:36:11] Voice 10: as far what i'm hearing is still this full intent to release the report to the republic

[1:36:16] Voice 10: to the public as soon as possible which could potentially be immediately following the meetings

[1:36:21] Voice 10: um if uh there's no individually identifiable content is that kind of a long-winded way of

[1:36:28] Voice 10: saying what you said in a much more succinct way ceo but does that accurately capture what um

[1:36:33] Voice 10: um where we're at yeah yes okay i

[1:36:38] Voice 17: think so uh

[1:36:40] Voice 10: uh mr longrace any any follow-up comments uh

[1:36:43] Voice 17: no just

[1:36:43] Voice 17: said i think i i think we're spending a lot of time on something that probably won't become an

[1:36:49] Voice 17: issue i don't i i really do think that the report will be that might be true sir yeah that's that's

[1:36:55] Voice 17: my hope and maybe i'm being naive but i believe that so no

[1:36:59] Voice 10: fair enough thank you for those

[1:37:00] Voice 10: comments so i don't believe there's a need or even a possibility for a motion of any sort

[1:37:05] Voice 10: or other here i think it was a discussion clarification of the the mechanics of the

[1:37:10] Voice 10: of the issuance of the report and anything i i just have one point that i'd like to make in

[1:37:16] Voice 10: terms of the amount of time devoted to this at trust council but i can wait for that any

[1:37:21] Voice 10: Any further comments before we move on to other considerations?

[1:37:28] Voice 10: Trustee Kale.

[1:37:30] Voice 14: Yes, thank you.

[1:37:31] Voice 14: I think this is probably the last effective meeting of the steering committee.

[1:37:38] Voice 14: And when I leave here today, I'm satisfied with the – thank you, by the way, for everybody, for all the contributions made today.

[1:37:47] Voice 14: I would like to be able to tell people that when this section of our meeting is concluded in March, that the report will be put onto the Island Trust website, and to satisfy the term immediate.

[1:38:07] Voice 14: And I'd just like to I just if that's hugely problematic, I'd like to know because then I mustn't tell people that.

[1:38:15] Voice 14: But I would like to be able to be absolutely clear that once this section is finished,

[1:38:23] Voice 14: we will have held realistically onto this item in camera for a considerable time.

[1:38:30] Voice 14: Now, you know, keeping secrets is a bit like expecting water not to escape from a colander.

[1:38:37] Voice 14: it's it's it's very it's very difficult so all of a sudden this meeting is open and realistically

[1:38:43] Voice 14: people are going to want to get it out there in their communities i would like to see us i would

[1:38:50] Voice 14: like to see us be first out of the gate it's uh the section is over it's the questions are asked

[1:38:56] Voice 14: be it in camera which i hope not hopefully openly and then it's on the website lickety split done

[1:39:03] Voice 14: I'd like to be able to tell people that is what we're going to do.

[1:39:09] Voice 10: Thank you, Trustee Cahill. Before I follow up on that point, Trustee Critchley, your hand is raised. Please go ahead.

[1:39:18] Trustee Critchley: Thank you. I'm not sure if I was not able to express myself properly the last time we went around this,

[1:39:28] Trustee Critchley: but I continue to see the potential for a major issue over how this thing is handled

[1:39:37] Trustee Critchley: at the March Trust Council. And here's the thing. So if the report comes through and has some

[1:39:47] Trustee Critchley: material which is properly in camera, then it seems to me, and I pause to say that in camera,

[1:39:55] Trustee Critchley: as I understand it, is not something which is kind of discretionary, like, oh, we'd like to

[1:40:01] Trustee Critchley: hide something from the public, so we'll go in camera. No, it's legislated. These are the

[1:40:06] Trustee Critchley: conditions under which you can go in camera. And these are the conditions under which you shall,

[1:40:12] Trustee Critchley: because there are considerations of protection of privacy and so forth involved and possible

[1:40:21] Trustee Critchley: possible intergovernmental relations. So I do see that a realistic potential that this report

[1:40:27] Trustee Critchley: may contain elements that are properly dealt with in camera. So the matter comes through,

[1:40:35] Trustee Critchley: staff look at the report, and they say, oh, yes, there's some in-camera elements here.

[1:40:42] Trustee Critchley: So what is to happen? Then is it sort of a binary process where this document is either

[1:40:49] Trustee Critchley: in camera or out of camera that's what I'm foreseeing so if it is if it

[1:40:58] Trustee Critchley: contains in camera elements then staff will say okay we can't publish this we

[1:41:03] Trustee Critchley: can't put this in our agenda and put it out there in public because it has in

[1:41:08] Trustee Critchley: camera elements therefore it must be withheld and will only be dealt with in

[1:41:16] Trustee Critchley: camera and then we have a presentation from the consultants which is all in

[1:41:23] Trustee Critchley: camera and now to me that's unsatisfactory I think that the

[1:41:27] Trustee Critchley: presentation from the consultants should be in public and if there are elements

[1:41:34] Trustee Critchley: of in camera matters then surely they will be a minority they will be 1% of

[1:41:42] Trustee Critchley: the report perhaps perhaps there'll be nothing but if there is and I think we

[1:41:47] Trustee Critchley: we need to think about what is the potential that there are some things which possibly

[1:41:51] Trustee Critchley: properly should be dealt with in camera and how do we deal with those in march and that's why i

[1:41:59] Trustee Critchley: suggested that if there was some obviously in camera matters that they'd be uh in an appendix

[1:42:06] Trustee Critchley: that's a simple matter of dealing with it so that we can deal with 99 of the thing out in a public

[1:42:13] Trustee Critchley: forum that concept seems to have gotten zero traction and it surprises me

[1:42:20] Trustee Critchley: because to me it's the most sensible and practical way of dealing with the

[1:42:25] Trustee Critchley: potential if there is no in-camera matter in the document at all fine I'm

[1:42:31] Trustee Critchley: happy with that and all I'm saying is for nothing but if there is that is the

[1:42:38] Trustee Critchley: the contingency that I am trying to see in the future and plan for. And I don't think that

[1:42:48] Trustee Critchley: people are really grasping this. The motion that was passed by Trust Council contains within it

[1:42:57] Trustee Critchley: a kind of inconsistency, because it speaks on the one hand of in-camera, and then it talks about

[1:43:05] Trustee Critchley: immediately releasing well if it can be immediately released to the public it ought not to be in

[1:43:11] Trustee Critchley: camera in the first place that's that's the plain fact of the matter so i think we we're not really

[1:43:18] Trustee Critchley: grasping this the right way and and uh i would really prefer to see it handled the way that i

[1:43:24] Trustee Critchley: suggested i've got no takers on that thus far but maybe it was my lack of articulation um

[1:43:31] Trustee Critchley: Um, but anyway, that's, that's all I'll say.

[1:43:35] Trustee Critchley: If there's nobody else wants to follow that,

[1:43:36] Trustee Critchley: then let's just deal with it in March.

[1:43:39] Voice 10: Well, the agency is duly noted. Yeah.

[1:43:43] Voice 10: And over to you, uh, CEO Hudson Pillar.

[1:43:46] Voice 11: The conversation's great, but the threat level's low here.

[1:43:52] Voice 11: Um, there's this report's going to get out.

[1:43:56] Voice 11: Um, trust council has for better, for worse has provided us with direction.

[1:44:00] Voice 11: we're going to do our absolutely our utmost to do to absolutely follow the rules and regulations

[1:44:07] Voice 11: that apply I you know the select committee I don't think can affect that outcome right now

[1:44:15] Voice 11: I don't think you're being asked to consider the in-camera nature of the reporting process

[1:44:22] Voice 11: so I wouldn't want you to get to a place where you're working against the direction that's been

[1:44:30] Voice 11: provided by trust council in the first place and i and i think that it's um i literally think all

[1:44:37] Voice 11: needs will be met um through through this process and we're just so close to the end of it that um

[1:44:43] Voice 11: you know i'm quite confident myself that it will be uh daylighted appropriately um

[1:44:52] Voice 10: just trustee

[1:44:53] Voice 10: morrison for thank you ceo hudson pillar and trustee morrison um and followed by vice chair

[1:44:58] Voice 10: along your ways please uh

[1:45:00] Trustee Morrison: i i agree with what's been said that i think we can't do much more on

[1:45:05] Trustee Morrison: this right now we can't see the report in advance of the rest of the trustees so we have to leave

[1:45:09] Trustee Morrison: that up to um the next step in the process so i'm i'm okay with it just kind of being a little

[1:45:15] Trustee Morrison: nebulous right now and i trust that executive and the ceo hudson feller will apply the legislation

[1:45:21] Trustee Morrison: appropriately as it comes forward. What I do want to say, though, is we are in our last meeting,

[1:45:29] Trustee Morrison: I think. So I do want to give a big thank you to the consultants and actually to all of you,

[1:45:34] Trustee Morrison: because this is not a simple process. And it was a really close vote when this got authorized,

[1:45:42] Trustee Morrison: you know, a year ago in December. And I do feel like everybody has really worked through the

[1:45:48] Trustee Morrison: process and produced a good call and a good rate you know a good process to to see this forward so

[1:45:54] Trustee Morrison: i just thank you all for your efforts in this thank

[1:45:59] Voice 10: you also trustee morrison um vice chair

[1:46:02] Voice 10: longer race please i

[1:46:03] Voice 17: just wanted to respond to uh david chrisley that i i see his point i understand

[1:46:09] Voice 17: what he's getting at it's the process once you decide something is to be in camera how does that

[1:46:16] Voice 17: that rollout and when does it occur is the big issue.

[1:46:19] Voice 17: Do you provide a report that has certain sections blacked out

[1:46:23] Voice 17: or do you extract it completely and make no acknowledgement

[1:46:27] Voice 17: that there was anything blacked out?

[1:46:29] Voice 17: So those are kind of the questions that come up for me

[1:46:31] Voice 17: in terms of the process.

[1:46:33] Voice 17: You know, you do an FOI request and often there's,

[1:46:36] Voice 17: you know, the blacked out sections are there

[1:46:39] Voice 17: for confidentiality reasons.

[1:46:41] Voice 17: And I don't know what the process is.

[1:46:43] Voice 17: So it's something to consider, I guess,

[1:46:44] Voice 17: for executive and staff when they're looking at this and uh yeah oh

[1:46:52] Voice 10: bad mr kelly you have your

[1:46:54] Voice 10: can we turn to mr kelly vice chair thank you well

[1:46:59] Voice 7: first of all i just want to thank uh the select

[1:47:01] Voice 7: committee as a whole for the uh you know your work over the over the period of this and uh you know

[1:47:09] Voice 7: we appreciated i know i'm speaking on behalf of all the consultants your guidance you know through

[1:47:14] Voice 7: this exercise you know we needed help and you were there to help us so i want to thank you all

[1:47:19] Voice 7: uh for that guidance and advice and uh a nice special shout out to the uh you know to all the

[1:47:25] Voice 7: trustees themselves that uh that all 26 of them made the time for an hour and a half meeting and

[1:47:31] Voice 7: put a lot of put a lot of effort into it so this has been a and as well as the staff you know russ

[1:47:38] Voice 7: and his staff you know couldn't have done more in terms of their availability and you know helping

[1:47:43] Voice 7: helping us wade through mountains and mountains

[1:47:45] Voice 7: of information.

[1:47:46] Voice 7: And this has been a major information dump for all of us.

[1:47:52] Voice 7: And yeah, we're coming up the other side of it.

[1:47:55] Voice 7: And we look forward to the presentation in March

[1:48:00] Voice 7: and hopefully it will be past COVID

[1:48:03] Voice 7: and everybody will be there

[1:48:04] Voice 7: and we'll have a chance to meet people in the flesh

[1:48:06] Voice 7: or at least MF and Jim will.

[1:48:09] Voice 7: Thank you again.

[1:48:10] Voice 7: yeah thank

[1:48:13] Voice 10: you mr kelly and um i'm hoping there'll be a uh open section for uh the committee to make

[1:48:20] Voice 10: its final report at trust council where i can use the appropriately gracious words for everybody's

[1:48:28] Voice 10: involvement and commitment uh in march um i and i would say i mean i think trust just in uh

[1:48:35] Voice 10: transition here trustee christie i think makes a very good point there is a baked in logical

[1:48:41] Voice 10: inconsistency in the motion that council passed and I think it might be better

[1:48:47] Voice 10: therefore and I think this is what our CEO is sort of guiding us or advising

[1:48:51] Voice 10: that this might be the cases rather than make the default assumption that the

[1:48:56] Voice 10: report will be an in-camera matter I think the default assumption is better

[1:49:01] Voice 10: that well there's no guarantees that the there it will not be in camera that it

[1:49:07] Voice 10: will in fact be an open session at council and if it is to be in camera there will have to be some

[1:49:14] Voice 10: very good rationale as to why that is um so i think generally the expectation would be that

[1:49:20] Voice 10: we will be receiving this report not in camera at the at the trust council uh unless there's

[1:49:26] Voice 10: some very specific reasoning that is we're blind to at this point because of course we don't know

[1:49:30] Voice 10: what the content is but um that's uh perhaps a uh more of a hope than a reality and i i'm not sure

[1:49:39] Voice 10: that probably does satisfy you mr trustee christley because uh it's you know it's it's not

[1:49:44] Voice 10: uh nailed down but i think to the comments of some other members i'm not sure what further we can do

[1:49:51] Voice 10: at this point in that regard however trustee luckham you have your hand up let's um see if

[1:49:58] Voice 10: If you have some, as always, brilliant pearls of wisdom to bestow upon us that might see us through this.

[1:50:05] Trustee Luckham: Well, I might want to take my hand down with that introduction.

[1:50:09] Trustee Luckham: I just think that it's really important to be 100 percent clear.

[1:50:14] Trustee Luckham: And there's nothing more clear than the legislation which is required to go in camera or anything.

[1:50:23] Trustee Luckham: anything and to say that there needs to be a good reason or a good rationale or anything like that

[1:50:30] Trustee Luckham: undermines the legislation the legislation is clear if there hopefully it does not need to go

[1:50:37] Trustee Luckham: in in camera and if there is it will be can it will be reflected in the legislation that protects

[1:50:44] Trustee Luckham: the public's interest frozen

[1:50:51] Voice 10: oh it's not me this time

[1:50:53] Voice 8: wow

[1:50:54] Voice 10: the the uh the passion of his

[1:51:00] Voice 10: commentary has blown up the connection there you are peter you cut out for the last little bit

[1:51:04] Voice 10: would you mind you basically

[1:51:07] Trustee Luckham: so let's just be clear that uh if it's held in camera which

[1:51:12] Trustee Luckham: certainly i too hope that it's not that it will be because of clear direction from the legislation

[1:51:19] Trustee Luckham: legislation, not from a rationale or a good idea or anything nebulous at all. It needs to be

[1:51:27] Trustee Luckham: supported in the legislation.

[1:51:29] Voice 10: Thank you. Thank you for that. I do think as perhaps on, you know,

[1:51:34] Voice 10: while there are some loose ends here, I think of necessity like life. Sometimes that is the way it

[1:51:39] Voice 10: has to be. I can't see us being able to discuss this and get resolution any further. So with your

[1:51:44] Voice 10: indulgence i'd ask that we move on um the one item i would like to bring up and i don't think it

[1:51:51] Voice 10: needs to be a motion it's a polite request to executive committee is that you please us a lot

[1:51:57] Voice 10: more than one hour to the receipt and the question and answer period of this of this report ideally

[1:52:04] Voice 10: sort of a full morning session as i think what what has been talked about by some trustees at

[1:52:09] Voice 10: the council level um so i respectfully submit perhaps just in the meeting record that that

[1:52:15] Voice 10: be a consideration of executive when uh building the agenda for the march meeting um and that thank

[1:52:25] Voice 10: you yeah that's it for me so um so i think that concludes our business items and please uh raise

[1:52:38] Voice 10: your end if i'm wrong about that um mr kelly any last comments or points that you you would like

[1:52:46] Voice 10: to make before we move on no

[1:52:51] Voice 7: i think i think i've said enough here today so thank you lee and thank

[1:52:54] Voice 7: you for the committee me

[1:52:55] Voice 10: too thank you thank you very much was that your hand i saw there vice

[1:53:01] Voice 10: chair long race no okay well thank you everyone for your input i know it's it's very very helpful

[1:53:07] Voice 10: to have this discussion and it's helpful for the public to understand our reasoning and our

[1:53:11] Voice 10: the rationale for decisions and they can do so through through having this uh recorded and so

[1:53:18] Voice 10: everyone's comments were insightful and very valid and and i appreciate your participation

[1:53:23] Voice 10: in this meeting and it may very well be our last meeting um if so i'll make some concluding remarks

[1:53:29] Voice 10: at trust council for the benefit of all trustees and um and um um and the public um but for the

[1:53:38] Voice 10: purposes of this meeting which i thought would be a very short meeting and is now pushing two hours

[1:53:42] Voice 10: but you know like i say it's it's it's been good discussion um we the new business item i i think

[1:53:49] Voice 10: i tabled the idea of do we entertain um um a town hall for the simple reason it may be moot if we

[1:53:58] Voice 10: don't actually meet again it's so you know really a discussion that we don't need to have um and

[1:54:04] Voice 10: then uh the next point is was correspondence received from member which you would have all

[1:54:09] Voice 10: read we thank the writer for that correspondence um i'm not sure there's a need to forward that to

[1:54:18] Voice 10: executive it sort of hashes over some of the points we've wrestled with and so it's uh you

[1:54:23] Voice 10: know appreciated that the correspondence is addressed to us um any any thoughts on that

[1:54:28] Voice 10: trustee morrison yeah

[1:54:30] Trustee Morrison: i think sorry go ahead peter i'm

[1:54:35] Trustee Luckham: sorry for interrupting i just said receive it

[1:54:36] Trustee Luckham: for information yeah

[1:54:38] Trustee Morrison: that would be my suggestion too just receive it for information and i think

[1:54:41] Trustee Morrison: that's what we did on the last one whatever we are consistent with what we did on the last one

[1:54:45] Trustee Morrison: thank

[1:54:45] Voice 10: you so so received um moving on then the next meeting we've discussed this already where

[1:54:53] Voice 10: we've we've we've cancelled our february 7th meeting and so the effectively the next meeting

[1:54:57] Voice 10: meeting, if there is one. And who knows, there may be some business that we're tasked with

[1:55:01] Voice 10: or some concluding matters. So I won't shut the door entirely, but we'll just say to be

[1:55:06] Voice 10: determined. And Trustee Morrison, did you put your hand up again? Okay, thanks. So without

[1:55:16] Voice 10: any further ado, I think I'd ask for a motion to adjourn.

[1:55:20] Voice 10: I

[1:55:20] Trustee Critchley: move to adjourn.

[1:55:21] Voice 10: Okay. Thank you, Trustee. Thank you, Trustee

[1:55:24] Voice 10: Thank you everybody and thank you for the staff support, appreciation all around and look forward to seeing you in March.

[1:55:35] Voice 17: Thanks all.

[1:55:36] Voice 17: Thank you.

[1:55:37] Voice 10: Thanks everybody. Stay safe.

[1:55:39] Voice 11: Happy New Year.

[1:55:40] Voice 11: Yeah. See you, Charles.

[1:55:42] Voice 11: Stay dry.

[1:55:43] Voice 11: Thank you.

[1:55:44] Voice 11: Yeah, we're not going to be dry for long.