Islands Trust Council special meeting, January 20, 2022

[0:00:00] Trustee Luckham: we are now being okay

[0:00:01] Voice 1: thank

[0:00:03] Trustee Luckham: you mark or thank you will for making it happen

[0:00:09] Trustee Luckham: all right um so folks at 9 16 a little bit late starting uh due to some technology problems

[0:00:17] Trustee Luckham: uh my name is peter luckham i'm elected here on uh thetis island and uh this is the luskidi island

[0:00:23] Trustee Luckham: local trust committee special meeting um of november january 20th and um just want to

[0:00:30] Trustee Luckham: acknowledge um that uh it's really every day it's a it's a joy and an honor to uh awake and be here

[0:00:40] Trustee Luckham: in coast salish territory which is so incredibly rich with natural uh beauty and and resources

[0:00:48] Trustee Luckham: um but of course is the uh and is the home of uh the coast salish people since time immemorial

[0:00:55] Trustee Luckham: and I just want to acknowledge that.

[0:00:58] Trustee Luckham: And here on Thetis, it's Lax and in Penelope territory,

[0:01:01] Trustee Luckham: and on Leskete there, it's Tlayamen and predominantly, I think,

[0:01:06] Trustee Luckham: but also, of course, connections with Snanemo and I said it earlier,

[0:01:15] Trustee Luckham: and Nanus Nation, and grateful to be here

[0:01:23] Trustee Luckham: and look forward to working with others to improve our understanding and knowledge of this

[0:01:30] Trustee Luckham: place that has been the home of so many people for so very long. So with me today to say good

[0:01:39] Trustee Luckham: morning is Tim Peterson, a locally elected trustee. Morning. And also locally elected.

[0:01:50] Trustee Johnston: Good morning. I'm here at the art center on my own, or the health center, sorry.

[0:01:56] Trustee Luckham: Okay. And today we have staff with us. We have Heather Carr, our regional planning manager,

[0:02:03] Trustee Luckham: acting planner. You wear many hats, Heather, and do so much to contribute to the benefit

[0:02:10] Trustee Luckham: of the Island's Trust. I want to acknowledge that and thank you for that. Dave Olson,

[0:02:14] Trustee Luckham: our minute taker. Welcome, David, and thank you for the work that you do for us.

[0:02:18] Trustee Luckham: and the magic fairy people in the background

[0:02:24] Trustee Luckham: that are looking after our internet today.

[0:02:26] Trustee Luckham: I think Mark was in there

[0:02:27] Trustee Luckham: and Will was in there and others.

[0:02:29] Trustee Luckham: And thank

[0:02:30] Voice 6: you for getting us on the line.

[0:02:32] Trustee Luckham: So today is a special meeting

[0:02:35] Trustee Luckham: to essentially deal with one matter

[0:02:38] Trustee Luckham: and that is enabling the ability

[0:02:40] Trustee Luckham: for the LPC to meet electronically.

[0:02:42] Trustee Luckham: And so I'm going to call the meeting to order

[0:02:45] Trustee Luckham: and we have an agenda before us.

[0:02:48] Trustee Luckham: I don't anticipate we're going to add anything

[0:02:51] Trustee Luckham: because of course we wouldn't want to conduct business

[0:02:54] Trustee Luckham: that the public's not aware of.

[0:02:56] Trustee Luckham: But on the last, I'm going to ask Heather and the trustees,

[0:02:59] Trustee Luckham: if there's anything new that needs to be added

[0:03:01] Trustee Luckham: to this meeting.

[0:03:02] Trustee Luckham: Of course, we're having a meeting here fairly shortly

[0:03:05] Trustee Luckham: once we've conducted this meeting.

[0:03:07] Trustee Luckham: So Tim Peterson, you had something?

[0:03:10] Voice 4: Chair, I was just going to mention that

[0:03:12] Voice 4: when you turn your head to the side,

[0:03:14] Voice 4: I don't know if you're reading or something,

[0:03:15] Voice 4: thing but as soon as you do you're breaking up and we're not able to hear you if you're facing

[0:03:21] Voice 4: the computer it's fine but as soon as your head turns you get all blotchy and breaking up let you

[0:03:28] Voice 4: know yeah

[0:03:29] Trustee Luckham: i am aware of that and i keep forgetting it but one of the software upgrades it seems to

[0:03:35] Trustee Luckham: happen to most people's laptops here um now at ellen's trust that the microphone is not as

[0:03:40] Trustee Luckham: omnidirectional as it once was. And maybe it's just defective, but certainly that lends a voice

[0:03:49] Trustee Luckham: to the suggestion that some of these laptops need to be replaced for the next generation of trustees

[0:03:55] Trustee Luckham: because it certainly is not working the way it did when it was new.

[0:04:00] Trustee Luckham: Anyway, so thank you all. I don't like wearing the headphones if I can get away with it. And so I'm

[0:04:07] Trustee Luckham: just going to try and keep my eyes to the screen. So is there any other business today that is

[0:04:13] Trustee Luckham: urgent that we need to have on today's agenda? I'm not seeing anything. So then I'm going to

[0:04:19] Trustee Luckham: adopt the agenda by general consent as presented and going to move directly into the first business

[0:04:25] Trustee Luckham: item, which is meeting procedures bylaw number 100 for consideration and decision. And I note

[0:04:32] Trustee Luckham: that there's a fifth motion on there thank you heather um that has been added uh that we might

[0:04:38] Trustee Luckham: want to provide direction to council about electronic meetings so heather car i'm just

[0:04:42] Trustee Luckham: going to turn it over to you to introduce uh this and uh seems pretty straightforward

[0:04:47] Trustee Luckham: but certainly this is our opportunity to make amendments to the language that's in the bylaws

[0:04:52] Trustee Luckham: that's what we want to do i believe so heather over to you

[0:04:55] Voice 1: yeah so just uh in summary of the

[0:05:00] Voice 1: a staff report. This is representing an amendment to your meeting procedures bylaw. What prompted

[0:05:08] Voice 1: it was that the province changed the legislation and the Islands Trust and electronic meetings

[0:05:16] Voice 1: regulation to allow for regular meetings to be electronic as well as special meetings.

[0:05:23] Voice 1: They were special meetings were already allowed to be electronic, but now regular meetings can

[0:05:26] Voice 1: can be as well.

[0:05:27] Voice 1: So that's what prompted the changes to it.

[0:05:30] Voice 1: There are specific provisions of the regulation

[0:05:32] Voice 1: that we have to abide by with this by-law

[0:05:37] Voice 1: and those have been considered.

[0:05:41] Voice 1: The draft language in the by-law has also been reviewed

[0:05:45] Voice 1: by Young Anderson, our legal team.

[0:05:49] Voice 1: So I will say that there are some things in the by-law

[0:05:53] Voice 1: that are recommended, but not necessarily required by the regulation. So generally,

[0:06:03] Voice 1: the regulation allows for you for any of your meetings to be, for you to attend any and all

[0:06:11] Voice 1: meetings electronically for you trustees. However, you'll note that we have recommended that at least

[0:06:18] Voice 1: two of your meetings in the year, your annual meetings, be in person. And we just think that

[0:06:24] Voice 1: that's a best practice kind of thing. And then there are procedures as listed in the bylaw,

[0:06:30] Voice 1: which you'll also note in our recommended version of the bylaw is that there are some added sections

[0:06:36] Voice 1: that have to do with decorum and public participation and those kinds of things that

[0:06:43] Voice 1: that aren't necessarily about electronic meetings.

[0:06:46] Voice 1: Though that language is mirrors

[0:06:48] Voice 1: the Salt Spring Island meeting procedures by-law

[0:06:52] Voice 1: and we've added it because we have this opportunity

[0:06:55] Voice 1: to update the meeting procedures by-laws

[0:06:57] Voice 1: and we have found that having some more guidance

[0:07:00] Voice 1: around those topics is helpful.

[0:07:04] Voice 1: So that's what that is.

[0:07:06] Voice 1: So attachment one to your report is the recommended by-law

[0:07:12] Voice 1: that we're recommending three ratings on.

[0:07:14] Voice 1: The second attachment is a track changes version

[0:07:17] Voice 1: that compares your existing meeting procedures by-law

[0:07:21] Voice 1: to the recommended version.

[0:07:23] Voice 1: And then the third attachment is an alternate by-law

[0:07:27] Voice 1: that captures all of the provisions of electronic meetings

[0:07:32] Voice 1: that we are recommending, but doesn't add the new sections.

[0:07:37] Voice 1: So public participation and decorum and those new sections.

[0:07:42] Voice 1: I thought you might like to have an alternative if those new sections are more than you're ready

[0:07:47] Voice 1: to adopt. So that's my summary and I'll turn it back over to you.

[0:07:56] Trustee Luckham: Okay, very good. Thank you very

[0:07:57] Trustee Luckham: much. So I'll just go directly to questions regarding the proposed bylaw amendments or

[0:08:08] Trustee Luckham: wording that's there and um and uh so we'll go for questions and then if there's any suggestions

[0:08:14] Trustee Luckham: that you for changes keeping in mind of course that the legal context we need to be careful

[0:08:20] Trustee Luckham: about and are altering that um but some of the optional things certainly there's some freedom

[0:08:25] Trustee Luckham: there so trustees anybody or do you want to move to motions peter johnson

[0:08:31] Trustee Johnston: i'd like to just

[0:08:33] Trustee Johnston: say what i think and then if we hear from tim and from you then we can before we go to motions

[0:08:38] Trustee Johnston: I would like to not incorporate those new additions to the bylaw.

[0:08:45] Trustee Johnston: So I would like to either go with the alternate version to work on the alternate version today to see if we can adopt it or to take the first version.

[0:08:57] Trustee Johnston: And then one of one of my motions will be to strip out those new sections.

[0:09:03] Trustee Johnston: And I can tell you why now, if you'd like to hear it.

[0:09:06] Trustee Johnston: I think that they're, should I tell you now?

[0:09:10] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, may as well.

[0:09:11] Trustee Luckham: Just keep on the roll and maybe reference the sections specifically that you think should be left out.

[0:09:18] Trustee Luckham: Because maybe you don't mean all of the new sections.

[0:09:21] Trustee Johnston: Maybe you only mean some.

[0:09:22] Trustee Johnston: Maybe you do mean all.

[0:09:24] Trustee Johnston: I actually do mean all four of the new sections.

[0:09:27] Trustee Johnston: And they are the delegations.

[0:09:32] Trustee Johnston: uh it one of the things these just tend to make it more difficult to present to a local trust

[0:09:40] Trustee Johnston: committee um you know you need four weeks notice you need to submit your text and your presentation

[0:09:46] Trustee Johnston: four weeks ahead of the meeting and that just isn't doesn't you know it's not i don't see that

[0:09:51] Trustee Johnston: it's necessary and it makes it much more difficult for people and dissuades people from involving the

[0:09:58] Trustee Johnston: the local trust committee and their lives.

[0:10:01] Trustee Johnston: The order and decorum section,

[0:10:03] Trustee Johnston: there's nothing wrong with it,

[0:10:04] Trustee Johnston: but I think it does emphasize a little much

[0:10:07] Trustee Johnston: how awful people are

[0:10:09] Trustee Johnston: and they're just permitted to be at the meeting.

[0:10:11] Trustee Johnston: The invited presentations,

[0:10:13] Trustee Johnston: I don't have any particular problem.

[0:10:15] Trustee Johnston: The public participation, I find too limiting too.

[0:10:20] Trustee Johnston: It makes a whole bylaw too bureaucratic

[0:10:23] Trustee Johnston: and tends, I think, to stifle

[0:10:26] Trustee Johnston: or discourage public participation.

[0:10:32] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so that's the delegation section,

[0:10:37] Trustee Luckham: the order and decorum section,

[0:10:40] Trustee Luckham: invited participation and public participation.

[0:10:43] Trustee Luckham: Those are the four sections you're speaking about?

[0:10:46] Trustee Luckham: Yes.

[0:10:48] Trustee Luckham: Okay, the other amendments in the track changes

[0:10:52] Trustee Luckham: topic that I'm looking at,

[0:10:53] Trustee Luckham: you don't have any with those then?

[0:10:56] Trustee Luckham: Like under meetings, notices of meetings,

[0:10:58] Trustee Luckham: I noticed there's a second five bullet,

[0:11:02] Trustee Luckham: which is new, advanced public notice of regular meetings.

[0:11:06] Trustee Luckham: I'm presuming you're okay with that stuff.

[0:11:09] Trustee Luckham: Well, I

[0:11:09] Trustee Johnston: actually do have a few other details

[0:11:12] Trustee Johnston: that I think need changing.

[0:11:15] Trustee Luckham: Okay, okay.

[0:11:17] Trustee Luckham: So then can we work with this marked changes version

[0:11:23] Trustee Luckham: and I'll just flag at the moment that you're not happy

[0:11:26] Trustee Luckham: with those particular those particular four new sections and let's hear from uh tim on those four

[0:11:35] Trustee Luckham: new sections and uh i'm in as well thank you

[0:11:42] Voice 4: chair um first i just want to preface uh my comments by

[0:11:48] Voice 4: acknowledging that um you know i've heard a lot of public feedback um uh that is not in support of

[0:11:57] Voice 4: of electronic meetings and just remind us

[0:12:00] Voice 4: that from the perspective of what I've heard,

[0:12:05] Voice 4: our public would vastly prefer us to meet in person

[0:12:10] Voice 4: whenever possible.

[0:12:11] Voice 4: So having said that, I don't have a lot of concerns

[0:12:16] Voice 4: about this version.

[0:12:19] Voice 4: I think all of these sections,

[0:12:26] Voice 4: there's a lot of discretion by the chair.

[0:12:30] Voice 4: And I think that when the LTC is an agreement,

[0:12:32] Voice 4: for example, to allow a longer speaking period, et cetera,

[0:12:38] Voice 4: that tends to happen.

[0:12:39] Voice 4: So I'm not unduly concerned about those sections.

[0:12:44] Voice 4: I do think it's important that we have a bylaw in place

[0:12:51] Voice 4: for those times when, for whatever reason,

[0:12:54] Voice 4: including our present situation,

[0:12:56] Voice 4: when public meetings are either difficult logistically

[0:13:04] Voice 4: or just inadvisable from the health standpoint.

[0:13:09] Voice 4: So I'm happy that we're proceeding with this bylaw.

[0:13:12] Voice 4: I hope that we in practice

[0:13:15] Voice 7: do

[0:13:17] Voice 4: not use it very frequently.

[0:13:19] Voice 4: And that's my comments, thank you.

[0:13:25] Trustee Luckham: Now, Dave, you got your hand up

[0:13:27] Trustee Luckham: for a meeting recording item here

[0:13:32] Voice 5: just another reminder to you chair that um it's difficult to hear you when your

[0:13:37] Voice 5: um face is not and so the last bit bunch of um wording that you gave us uh is going to be

[0:13:45] Voice 5: difficult to transcribe well i will put on sorry it's just i'm sorry for the bad news it's just

[0:13:57] Voice 5: we need to hear you so that's

[0:14:02] Trustee Luckham: okay i'll uh sacrifice my ears for clarity that's all right

[0:14:06] Trustee Luckham: um okay well thank you uh tim you know i i think um my interest in advancing this bylaw

[0:14:19] Trustee Luckham: is to give the ltc the opportunity to meet in the event that there are circumstances

[0:14:27] Trustee Luckham: circumstances that arise that we have no control over that we simply physically can't meet um and

[0:14:33] Trustee Luckham: the pandemic is certainly one of those i suspect there may be other um things such as a failure of

[0:14:41] Trustee Luckham: the ferry system or anything else but you know obviously um there are opportunities to resolve

[0:14:49] Trustee Luckham: that but anyway i think there's an obligation for us to be able to continue i think what i forget

[0:14:54] Trustee Luckham: at what the phrase is, to be able to continue to conduct business. And if there's something that

[0:15:01] Trustee Luckham: doesn't allow us to get together, maybe we all contracted the virus, for instance,

[0:15:09] Trustee Luckham: or a future virus, and that opportunity doesn't exist, and yet there's business that needs to be

[0:15:14] Trustee Luckham: done. So the details of it, certainly we could talk more about that in person at some future

[0:15:23] Trustee Luckham: meeting but I do want to say that from my perspective and I would just also

[0:15:29] Trustee Luckham: echo Tim's comments there that absolutely we want to meet in person I

[0:15:36] Trustee Luckham: enjoy coming to your community to start with and having that opportunity to sit

[0:15:41] Trustee Luckham: with folks and talk about things is vitally important to how the Islanders

[0:15:47] Trustee Luckham: trust operates in the islands just in performing its role in managing and assisting in land use

[0:15:55] Trustee Luckham: activities um and so let's try and do that and indeed that's why we stipulated that we should

[0:16:05] Trustee Luckham: at the minimum have two meetings a year in person um because there might be situations where some

[0:16:10] Trustee Luckham: don't want to do that for different reasons but anyway uh nonetheless i think that the

[0:16:16] Trustee Luckham: The sections that, Peter, that you would like to see struck about the process for delegations and just remind you that delegations is very different from town hall.

[0:16:31] Trustee Luckham: Delegations is an opportunity for people that want to come and make a presentation, a formal presentation of some kind, and want to reserve a larger amount of time to do that.

[0:16:44] Trustee Luckham: that. Town Hall does not have any kind of requirement associated with people making

[0:16:50] Trustee Luckham: presentations or arranging four weeks in advance or whatever the time period is, and they can

[0:16:56] Trustee Luckham: simply just show up. And I think that you also know that I am generous and others are

[0:17:03] Trustee Luckham: generous with time, and although we do have a time limitation, certainly the LTC is able

[0:17:08] Trustee Luckham: to vary that on a base on on individual circumstances um with respect to order and decorum

[0:17:19] Trustee Luckham: i've got to say and uh it happens in all communities it's happened in your community

[0:17:24] Trustee Luckham: where there are members of the public that do that do not respect um the trustees the the public

[0:17:35] Trustee Luckham: at large um and want to be disruptive and rude and uh offensive and it's happened i've been there

[0:17:44] Trustee Luckham: um and therefore the chair needs more ability to be able to be clear about what the expectations

[0:17:54] Trustee Luckham: are in advance and can be firm on what those expectations are rather than being left out

[0:18:02] Trustee Luckham: on a limb with the only option of adjourning a meeting, which would be incredibly disruptive

[0:18:10] Trustee Luckham: if we had some significant business to conduct. So these are, as Planner Cower had indicated,

[0:18:21] Trustee Luckham: essentially adopted from existing meeting bylaws on other islands. And I got to tell you,

[0:18:29] Trustee Luckham: The opportunity to actually have to enforce those things is rare and unnecessary to actually make into action, but it is a good idea to have them in the background.

[0:18:43] Trustee Luckham: ground. And, and by putting it into print, it sets an expectation for the public to at least

[0:18:50] Trustee Luckham: understand that there is an expectation that respect be paramount in how our meetings are

[0:18:59] Trustee Luckham: conducted. So I would like to see those things included. But if we want to have more of a

[0:19:07] Trustee Luckham: discussion at the ltc for that purpose we certainly can however you know i don't know how much you

[0:19:16] Trustee Luckham: want the public to weigh in like the reason to have that meeting in public would be to have the

[0:19:21] Trustee Luckham: public weigh in on that um i don't know that an administrative bylaw of this nature you necessarily

[0:19:27] Trustee Luckham: want to hear or um that notion that we shouldn't have administrative bylaws of this nature because

[0:19:37] Trustee Luckham: because it's a mechanism that allows us to protect staff, trustees, and members of the public

[0:19:44] Trustee Luckham: in a public meeting space for which we are ultimately responsible. So that's my two cents,

[0:19:50] Trustee Luckham: but I would like to see this bylaw being adopted in some fashion to simply allow us to have

[0:19:54] Trustee Luckham: electronic meetings. So that's my two cents. Is there any further discussion on this? And help

[0:20:03] Trustee Luckham: me out heather here because i do think you have two versions um i'm just i'm seeing the original

[0:20:10] Trustee Luckham: version and then i'm seeing the markup version and and so help us out that if we don't want to take

[0:20:18] Trustee Luckham: obviously we need to take some of the amendments that are in there that are not the new sections

[0:20:22] Trustee Luckham: at an absolute minimum and then obviously we need to decide what we're going to do

[0:20:27] Trustee Luckham: with the new sections and then we maybe as peter has indicated need to decide about some of the

[0:20:32] Trustee Luckham: the discrete wording on the other section.

[0:20:34] Trustee Luckham: So can you just assist me there with what version

[0:20:37] Trustee Luckham: we should be looking out to facilitate this?

[0:20:40] Voice 1: Version one is the recommended bylaw

[0:20:43] Voice 1: and the track changes shows you how it's changed.

[0:20:47] Voice 1: So my, I guess one way you could go about it

[0:20:51] Voice 1: is to amend the draft to remove those sections.

[0:20:58] Voice 7: Yes.

[0:20:58] Voice 1: If that's what you'd like to do.

[0:21:00] Voice 1: Okay.

[0:21:00] Voice 1: And maybe start with that, and then you can give readings.

[0:21:03] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[0:21:04] Trustee Luckham: So then what we're looking at is the bylaw that begins on page five of our package.

[0:21:10] Trustee Luckham: That's the amended version.

[0:21:13] Trustee Luckham: And the track changes version is the version that shows us how this one was created.

[0:21:17] Trustee Luckham: Is that correct?

[0:21:18] Trustee Luckham: That's right.

[0:21:19] Trustee Luckham: Okay, perfect.

[0:21:20] Trustee Luckham: So then, trustees, what would you like to do?

[0:21:23] Trustee Luckham: So

[0:21:26] Trustee Johnston: I just, if I can have one more kick at it, you know, I agree that there have been very, very few.

[0:21:33] Trustee Johnston: I can actually only remember one, but there probably were more instances where somebody at a meeting is being obstreperous and rude and abusive.

[0:21:43] Trustee Johnston: But I'm not sure that, in fact, I am sure that having this in the byline is not helpful.

[0:21:49] Trustee Johnston: The person is a little out of control and it doesn't happen often and it's only a small number of people. To me, this gives the opinion or the view that we're expecting this kind of behavior and we're trying to ward it off.

[0:22:06] Trustee Johnston: off. And in fact, I think most people are, almost everybody, most of the time is respectful and

[0:22:14] Trustee Johnston: polite and occasionally, you know, will raise a voice tone or say something intemperate. I mean,

[0:22:22] Trustee Johnston: I've done it myself and had to apologize for that. So that's, you know, because it sort of

[0:22:28] Trustee Johnston: goes on at great length. The other part about the delegations is that the last delegation I remember

[0:22:35] Trustee Johnston: remember was one that Carl presented, and I think it was on a docs issue, but I'm not sure,

[0:22:40] Trustee Johnston: and he just said to one of the trustees, it was Susan Morrison, and I think she was chairing the

[0:22:48] Trustee Johnston: meeting, and the meeting met early. It began early so that he could do that on the day before he left

[0:22:56] Trustee Johnston: on the 11 o'clock ferry. You know, so we've been very welcoming of all input, and saying you got

[0:23:02] Trustee Johnston: got to tell us four weeks ahead, not only that you want to talk to us, but exactly what you're

[0:23:06] Trustee Johnston: going to say is, I think, very off-putting. So that's why I'm really not happy. I think it

[0:23:16] Trustee Johnston: probably would be a good idea to, you know, to poll the community on that or get community input.

[0:23:23] Trustee Johnston: It just, it sets a tone that I don't like, that we're not interested and we want to discourage

[0:23:28] Trustee Johnston: knowledge of public participation. And I agree that I would, my ideal would be if we met in

[0:23:37] Trustee Johnston: person on Liskety, not just in person, but on Liskety in a public place where we're required

[0:23:42] Trustee Johnston: to meet. And that's, that's important.

[0:23:48] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. So, you know, it's one of these tricky things

[0:23:51] Trustee Luckham: with putting things down in writing, but I'll just share something else with you to help you

[0:23:58] Trustee Luckham: you understand why and members of the public that might be viewing this recording later

[0:24:03] Trustee Luckham: um the reason we ask for um delegation presentations in advance is because it might

[0:24:12] Trustee Luckham: surprise you to know and it would and it does indeed surprise some individuals even that have

[0:24:18] Trustee Luckham: made uh present uh submitted their delegations they say very inappropriate things um and use

[0:24:26] Trustee Luckham: language that is problematic and otherwise, and disrespectful assertions about staff particularly,

[0:24:38] Trustee Luckham: but even about other applicants and things. And the trouble becomes is that if a delegation is

[0:24:45] Trustee Luckham: coming to any meeting, we have to print that material so that people can see it. And some

[0:24:52] Trustee Luckham: Some even expect us to distribute printed copies of it, but we have to make that information available.

[0:24:57] Trustee Luckham: And it becomes a problem for us in sort of aiding or abetting, let's just call it slander that might happen by publishing it.

[0:25:06] Trustee Luckham: And we can't do that because that would be inappropriate for a local government to disseminate information that was incorrect or slanderous in any way, and even just simply incorrect.

[0:25:17] Trustee Luckham: correct. And so we asked for that in advance to give us the

[0:25:22] Trustee Luckham: opportunity to read it through and go, Oh, yeah, this is great.

[0:25:24] Trustee Luckham: This is really good proposal. Let's put it in the agenda. Or

[0:25:28] Trustee Luckham: maybe go back to the delegate and say, you know, this is really

[0:25:32] Trustee Luckham: great delegation you're bringing to the LTC. But we maybe think

[0:25:36] Trustee Luckham: you should change the language when you said that the chair is

[0:25:40] Trustee Luckham: a bad person. And I'm just making it up as I go along. So

[0:25:47] Trustee Luckham: It does, to some extent, send a message that you expect people to behave badly.

[0:25:53] Trustee Luckham: But the reason we post speed limits is not because we think people are going to behave badly, but just simply to remind them to drive below the speed limit, because maybe people, good people would drive too fast because they need to get to the airport.

[0:26:08] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, so that, you know, we either have to decide to do it or not.

[0:26:15] Trustee Luckham: and like i said earlier if it's a roadblock then um let's move on to other things but let's hear

[0:26:22] Trustee Luckham: from tim on that and maybe we just need to talk about this a section at a time in order to but i

[0:26:29] Trustee Luckham: don't know whether or not if you piecemeal take things out does that break the entire context of

[0:26:38] Trustee Luckham: it but i'm just going to go down so section delegations there's quite a few bullets in there

[0:26:43] Trustee Luckham: eight of them um or so no maybe not eight no it's fewer than that anyway however many there are

[0:26:49] Trustee Luckham: it's actually ten uh tim uh

[0:26:56] Voice 4: thank you cherry yeah i i i tend to disagree with the notion that

[0:27:00] Voice 4: having rules um uh and and expectations of decorum um is saying that we expect bad behavior i think

[0:27:10] Voice 4: in fact it's it's a positive thing and when um you know on the rare occasion that that

[0:27:19] Voice 4: sort of thing happens it empowers the the the chair and the trustees to have something to point

[0:27:25] Voice 4: to say this it is not acceptable and you know and and and it's and it's in our bylaw that it's not

[0:27:32] Voice 4: acceptable um so i i actually don't think it's it's saying that we expect the worst um from the

[0:27:40] Voice 4: public i actually think it's saying that we we expect the best and uh and and on those rare

[0:27:47] Voice 4: occasions where there is disrespect or inappropriate language we have we have a backstop we have

[0:27:53] Voice 4: something to point to so um that's my first point and i i honestly don't see that uh i think the

[0:28:01] Voice 4: chair did a good um explanation of the you know the how delegations differ from town hall comments

[0:28:10] Voice 4: and again this isn't something we've run into a lot I'd also mention that we the infrequency that

[0:28:18] Voice 4: we meet that I actually don't see that having a lead time for staff to be able to to go through

[0:28:27] Voice 4: presentations and and you know essentially vet them before they appear on our agenda is is such

[0:28:34] Voice 4: an onerous um situation if there was something really that's uh that a member of the public felt

[0:28:40] Voice 4: was uh you know important to be dealt with in a timely way uh that they could uh they could appeal

[0:28:48] Voice 4: to uh appeal to us and uh certainly show up as as a part of a town hall and you know request extra

[0:28:56] Voice 4: time at a town hall session if you actually don't feel that it's fettering us um or the public i i

[0:29:03] Voice 4: I think it's just important to have those backstops

[0:29:07] Voice 4: and something to refer to.

[0:29:08] Voice 4: And as I say, I really think it shows

[0:29:13] Voice 4: that our expectations are of the best of the public.

[0:29:17] Voice 4: So I have no problem leaving all of those in.

[0:29:21] Voice 4: And in terms of our process today,

[0:29:23] Voice 4: I think if Trustee Johnson wants to have sections removed,

[0:29:29] Voice 4: he should go ahead and make motions on those sections

[0:29:33] Voice 4: if he wants to and we can deal with that and we can move this discussion along um and through the

[0:29:39] Voice 4: other parts of the if he has objections to and uh let's make it happen okay

[0:29:45] Trustee Johnston: so

[0:29:46] Trustee Luckham: before uh you speak

[0:29:48] Trustee Luckham: uh peter i just want to note one thing that trustee peterson has reminded me of and it's

[0:29:54] Trustee Luckham: about making the meeting a safe place and and ostensibly that's in-person meetings

[0:30:00] Trustee Luckham: that we're talking about and that some will be relieved to know that there's some management

[0:30:07] Trustee Luckham: associated with the meeting and that they those that are less comfortable with coming

[0:30:13] Trustee Luckham: to public meetings might be encouraged to come to public meetings because it is anticipated

[0:30:20] Trustee Luckham: it will be a safe place and that I think is a really significant part of this is that

[0:30:26] Trustee Luckham: that we want people to come.

[0:30:28] Trustee Luckham: Some people don't come

[0:30:29] Trustee Luckham: because they don't think it's a safe place

[0:30:30] Trustee Luckham: and we want to foster it being a safe place.

[0:30:34] Trustee Luckham: So I think it's really important

[0:30:35] Trustee Luckham: to think about that aspect of it.

[0:30:37] Trustee Luckham: So over to you, Peter, what would you like to do?

[0:30:40] Trustee Johnston: Oh, I was going to say, I don't, you know,

[0:30:42] Trustee Johnston: I think it is important that our meetings be a safe place

[0:30:46] Trustee Johnston: and that we be respectful

[0:30:48] Trustee Johnston: and that we model that behavior and expect it.

[0:30:51] Trustee Johnston: And I'll tell you the thing

[0:30:54] Trustee Johnston: I really don't like the most of this. I can understand what Tim said and what you say about

[0:31:01] Trustee Johnston: decorum. It's there. It's not that offensive. It's not that long. And the invited people and

[0:31:06] Trustee Johnston: the presentations, the part that really offends me most is the delegations. And until very recently,

[0:31:15] Trustee Johnston: my only experience with that was at Trust Council. There have been very few delegations

[0:31:20] Trustee Johnston: to local trust committee.

[0:31:23] Trustee Johnston: And until recently,

[0:31:25] Trustee Johnston: trust counsel,

[0:31:26] Trustee Johnston: all the agenda package said

[0:31:28] Trustee Johnston: it was this person on this topic.

[0:31:30] Trustee Johnston: And they did their presentation.

[0:31:32] Trustee Johnston: Then frequently afterwards,

[0:31:34] Trustee Johnston: they would send us

[0:31:36] Trustee Johnston: their PowerPoint presentation

[0:31:38] Trustee Johnston: or their notes on it

[0:31:39] Trustee Johnston: or their talk that they had read.

[0:31:46] Trustee Johnston: And there was nothing about

[0:31:47] Trustee Johnston: the agenda package.

[0:31:49] Trustee Johnston: And that practice has changed at Trust Council, although I checked the other day, and Trust Council policy still does not say you have to submit it.

[0:31:58] Trustee Johnston: The practice, the requirement on the website, and the expectation to be a delegation is you have to do that.

[0:32:04] Trustee Johnston: But the Trust Council's meetings, policy, and procedure still doesn't say that, that it would be perfectly simple and perfectly allowable to say,

[0:32:14] Trustee Johnston: say, so and so is going to present a delegation on this topic. And that's as far as the agenda

[0:32:23] Trustee Johnston: package goes. We don't need to vet it to make sure it's safe and reasonable. You know, if it

[0:32:30] Trustee Johnston: turns out they're not safe and reasonable, we can, the chair can interrupt them at the meeting and

[0:32:35] Trustee Johnston: say, this is not acceptable. And, you know, if you can change it right now, that's fine. Otherwise,

[0:32:42] Trustee Johnston: otherwise you have to stop.

[0:32:45] Trustee Johnston: So I'd like to move that the section on delegations

[0:32:49] Trustee Johnston: be removed from the first version.

[0:32:55] Trustee Johnston: I can't remember exactly what...

[0:33:00] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so that's delegations

[0:33:01] Trustee Luckham: and I think that's starting at bullet 18,

[0:33:05] Trustee Luckham: would that be correct?

[0:33:06] Trustee Johnston: 18 through

[0:33:07] Trustee Johnston: 28, according to my notes.

[0:33:09] Trustee Luckham: So you are making a motion to remove those

[0:33:12] Trustee Luckham: from the draft bylaw?

[0:33:13] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[0:33:13] Trustee Johnston: all

[0:33:14] Trustee Luckham: right so the uh then what i would do then is david you've recorded that motion

[0:33:23] Voice 5: yes i have thank

[0:33:24] Trustee Luckham: you so i'm going to ask for a seconder seconded by tim peterson thank you very

[0:33:31] Trustee Luckham: much so do you wish to speak further to your motion peter peter no thank

[0:33:36] Trustee Luckham: you all right is

[0:33:38] Trustee Luckham: there any discussion on the motion on the floor okay so i think we i've spoken anyway that i would

[0:33:49] Trustee Luckham: would support retaining them in the work.

[0:33:53] Trustee Luckham: So therefore, if there's no further discussion,

[0:33:56] Trustee Luckham: I'm gonna call for the vote.

[0:33:57] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor?

[0:34:00] Trustee Luckham: I see one in favor.

[0:34:02] Trustee Luckham: So I'm gonna ask now all those opposed.

[0:34:05] Trustee Luckham: And I see two opposed, so that does not carry.

[0:34:10] Trustee Luckham: So thank you, Peter.

[0:34:11] Trustee Luckham: I want you to know I respect your point of view,

[0:34:15] Trustee Luckham: but I think it's an administrative activity

[0:34:17] Trustee Luckham: that will help us.

[0:34:19] Trustee Luckham: so is there any further motions on and i'm just going to say at this point to focus the

[0:34:24] Trustee Luckham: conversation on the four added sections so there's order and decorum which is uh from 29 to 32 and

[0:34:32] Trustee Luckham: invited presentations at 33 and public participation is 34 to 40. is there any further

[0:34:38] Trustee Luckham: motions on those sections no okay thank you very much then peter so now let's focus on some of the

[0:34:45] Trustee Luckham: the other minor changes that exist and obviously there's renumbering and the like here if we start

[0:34:52] Trustee Luckham: at the top of the document and maybe that's the best way to do it perhaps a page at a time even

[0:34:58] Trustee Luckham: because there's minor little changes and perhaps there's something there that needs to be changed

[0:35:02] Trustee Luckham: so if we looked at page one of the document which is page 11 of our package is there anything there

[0:35:10] Trustee Luckham: that either of you would like to discuss or amend yes

[0:35:15] Trustee Johnston: there is are we going to go through the track

[0:35:18] Trustee Johnston: changes version i would prefer to do that yeah okay it'll take me just a moment okay i'm there

[0:35:24] Trustee Johnston: section three um i i i i think ideally all of our meetings and we generally have five meetings a

[0:35:35] Trustee Johnston: year scheduled and sometimes an additional meeting or additional meetings, I am not happy

[0:35:44] Trustee Johnston: that two of them are required to be held in person. I don't see why we're bettering ourselves

[0:35:51] Trustee Johnston: 30 or 40 percent of our meetings have to be held in person. Ideally, they would all be held

[0:35:57] Trustee Johnston: on Leskeetee, but so I would like to have that section removed, of which there shall be at least

[0:36:12] Trustee Johnston: two held in person, which is new. The original bylaw said there had to be at least two meetings

[0:36:19] Trustee Johnston: a year. It didn't say anything about them being, how they were held. Well, they all had to be held

[0:36:24] Trustee Johnston: in person and

[0:36:29] Trustee Luckham: understood um i think though and heather you might be able to help out here on

[0:36:34] Trustee Luckham: from an administrative perspective is that the opportunity exists here for us to hold all of our

[0:36:39] Trustee Luckham: meetings electronically and i think that what we want to do is provide notice to the trustees is

[0:36:46] Trustee Luckham: that not attending in-person meetings is not something we want to do we want to attend public

[0:36:53] Trustee Luckham: So, Heather, do you have any further remarks on that?

[0:36:56] Voice 1: That's right.

[0:36:58] Voice 1: Theoretically, you could have all of your meetings be electronic.

[0:37:01] Voice 1: So this is a placeholder to make sure that you have at least two of them be in person.

[0:37:08] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[0:37:09] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[0:37:09] Trustee Luckham: Which may in some situations require us to reschedule meetings because we simply can't meet in person because of circumstances.

[0:37:15] Trustee Luckham: But it holds a minimum standard rather than if we deleted this section, then there would be no insistence by the LTC to have to hold in-person meetings.

[0:37:29] Trustee Luckham: Tim Peterson, over to you and then back to Peter Johnson.

[0:37:34] Voice 4: I agree with Peter on this one. And, you know, given what we've been going through in the last two years, I think it has to be problematic.

[0:37:43] Voice 4: problematic. Oh, sorry, Presti Johnson. Okay. You know, given our circumstance with the pandemic

[0:37:51] Voice 4: over the past couple of years, I think that having a requirement for in-person meetings

[0:37:55] Voice 4: is actually, you know, it could be problematic. Certainly, it could have been over the last

[0:38:02] Voice 4: couple of years. What I'd like to see instead is perhaps some kind of language that says

[0:38:13] Voice 4: you something more like uh in person you know whenever practical or whenever feasible uh rather

[0:38:22] Voice 4: than um a minimum because as you know i won't repeat myself but what we've just gone through

[0:38:28] Voice 4: shows us that sometimes that i wouldn't have wanted to in uh uh have in-person meetings

[0:38:36] Voice 4: several junctures over the last two years so i i i agree with that section should be struck i'm not

[0:38:42] Voice 4: sure exactly how to reword it okay

[0:38:46] Trustee Luckham: well um obviously um heather we could strike it completely

[0:38:51] Trustee Luckham: um but it does provide the opportunity for the argument that we don't need to have

[0:39:00] Trustee Luckham: any in-person meetings but um uh some language would be helpful uh regional planning manager

[0:39:08] Trustee Luckham: color yeah

[0:39:09] Voice 1: i mean so as was mentioned the existing language is just it just says you have two meetings

[0:39:16] Voice 1: and it doesn't specify one way or the other whether or not those meetings have to be in

[0:39:20] Voice 1: person or electronic so if the intent is that you just you want to leave it open for any of

[0:39:27] Voice 1: the meetings to be electronic then you could we could just remove that in in person um language

[0:39:35] Voice 1: language if that's the intent um

[0:39:40] Trustee Luckham: can you say that again so you're suggesting that there should be at

[0:39:44] Trustee Luckham: least so

[0:39:45] Voice 1: I I guess um I think it might be helpful I don't know what you're looking at but I I can

[0:39:50] Voice 1: bring up the track

[0:39:52] Trustee Luckham: changes track changes version uh bullet three page 11 I think it is 11.

[0:40:03] Voice 1: so do

[0:40:04] Voice 1: what we could do is just remove this added language that says held in person what that

[0:40:11] Voice 1: means is then you have the flexibility to and so just remove that that means you you still have to

[0:40:19] Voice 1: have two meetings but they could be electronic or in person just and it allows

[0:40:24] Trustee Luckham: you more okay

[0:40:25] Trustee Luckham: i'm i'm okay with that if that's uh satisfactory so um could we maybe do maintain a list here and

[0:40:35] Trustee Luckham: i can do that i'll take that responsibility to make one motion that i think there's some

[0:40:41] Trustee Luckham: consensus on striking held in person on bullet number three is that correct

[0:40:48] Trustee Luckham: okay and i'll just

[0:40:51] Trustee Luckham: if you disagree just shout out so held in person bullet three okay let's move along through the

[0:41:01] Trustee Luckham: document then is there anything else on this page tim has his hand up okay tim uh yeah you the screen

[0:41:11] Trustee Luckham: got shrunk so i'm just going to slide that over yeah

[0:41:13] Trustee Luckham: there you go yeah thank you chair um

[0:41:16] Voice 4: i just

[0:41:17] Voice 4: i'm thinking about what what we're just talking about here and uh i'm gonna try and work on it

[0:41:23] Voice 4: as we move along here but i think perhaps um it might be i'd kind of like to see some sort of a

[0:41:33] Voice 4: statement in here that you know that we're going to be using the electronic meaning bylaw um

[0:41:40] Voice 4: um when it's necessary rather than when it's convenient you know that

[0:41:44] Voice 4: that sort of states our intent to meet in person when whenever practical um

[0:41:52] Voice 4: and and so i just i because i i i think it's helpful uh to state that intent um so i'm just

[0:42:01] Voice 4: going to try and work on that in background as we go along here

[0:42:03] Trustee Luckham: let me then seek clarity here from

[0:42:06] Trustee Luckham: from RPM Cower, because a bylaw specifies specific direction. It doesn't necessarily have

[0:42:18] Trustee Luckham: that kind of language that is, you know, advisory in nature. So can you help us with that? You

[0:42:26] Trustee Luckham: probably have a much better way of saying that than what I've just done.

[0:42:30] Voice 1: No, I agree with that.

[0:42:32] Voice 1: we don't typically put intent in there um but i but i will say this is that later on in the bylaws

[0:42:40] Voice 1: you'll see as we go down um there is there are some procedures for allowing for trustees to

[0:42:48] Voice 1: attend electronically so there is a decision-making process and and that is that makes it harder for

[0:42:56] Voice 1: everybody to attend electronically you know in this because we have this procedure for decision

[0:43:01] Voice 1: decision-making for each time you have an electronic meeting um so my impression is

[0:43:07] Voice 1: that the mechanism is what's built in to kind of encourage in-person meetings in a sense that uh

[0:43:15] Voice 1: yeah that's one one

[0:43:16] Trustee Luckham: way what you're saying is is that that language that Tim is looking for

[0:43:20] Trustee Luckham: is contained already later in the bylaw kind

[0:43:24] Voice 1: of it's just um the results are the same because you

[0:43:30] Voice 1: make it harder to attend electronically i guess it's not necessarily an

[0:43:35] Voice 1: intentment statement but the fact that that mechanism is built in um

[0:43:41] Trustee Luckham: and i'm having trouble i'm having trouble with my wiring here or something today

[0:43:45] Voice 1: okay i'm not talking smoothly either um yeah i don't know if that makes sense that there's a

[0:43:53] Voice 1: mechanism built in to make it harder to attend electronically and therefore there that's what's

[0:43:59] Voice 1: the intent is built in, I guess.

[0:44:01] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, and I think that is actually the intent. Okay, so let Tim

[0:44:06] Trustee Luckham: consider that if he wants to do something else. And when we come to a motion, I'll ask you if you

[0:44:12] Trustee Luckham: want to have any other language added in replacement of held in person. So on this page 11,

[0:44:19] Trustee Luckham: is there something else that we want to change?

[0:44:22] Trustee Johnston: I have one more thing. In number one, there actually

[0:44:25] Trustee Johnston: actually is no number for the bylaw it should be number 100 it just omits that well

[0:44:31] Voice 1: this is um

[0:44:32] Voice 1: the citations now are done differently so we don't have to put the number in it

[0:44:38] Voice 1: um okay just

[0:44:39] Voice 1: for the citation okay so i just

[0:44:41] Trustee Johnston: noticed it was missing right okay

[0:44:43] Trustee Luckham: all

[0:44:44] Trustee Johnston: right

[0:44:46] Trustee Luckham: anything else on page 11 no

[0:44:50] Trustee Johnston: so let's go to give me just a moment here

[0:44:55] Trustee Johnston: page 11. so

[0:44:57] Trustee Luckham: the only other amendment is item five yeah

[0:45:00] Trustee Johnston: uh yes the item five

[0:45:03] Trustee Johnston: that i believe that section seven should actually say section six five

[0:45:10] Trustee Luckham: six comments

[0:45:12] Trustee Johnston: eight

[0:45:12] Trustee Luckham: where is that at

[0:45:15] Trustee Luckham: the very end of section five

[0:45:16] Trustee Luckham: right it hasn't been renumbered with the

[0:45:20] Trustee Luckham: rest of it i'm

[0:45:22] Trustee Johnston: not sure that it should be six but i believe it should be i've

[0:45:26] Trustee Luckham: got a note can

[0:45:27] Trustee Luckham: Can you comment on that?

[0:45:28] Voice 1: We looked at it again because we did get that comment via email.

[0:45:32] Voice 1: And we looked at it again.

[0:45:33] Voice 1: It is intended to be Section 7.

[0:45:35] Voice 1: Okay.

[0:45:36] Voice 1: Yeah, it is accurate.

[0:45:38] Voice 1: Or at least what the intent was.

[0:45:41] Trustee Luckham: All right.

[0:45:43] Trustee Luckham: So can I go to page 12?

[0:45:45] Trustee Johnston: Yes.

[0:45:46] Trustee Johnston: Can I make a general comment?

[0:45:48] Trustee Johnston: Yeah.

[0:45:49] Trustee Johnston: Some of the time in these points it says something can be done by majority vote of the local trust committee.

[0:45:56] Trustee Johnston: and sometimes it says unanimous vote and I don't understand why it changes but I mean there must be

[0:46:03] Trustee Johnston: a reason for it uh well there is

[0:46:08] Trustee Luckham: um and Heather do you want to speak to that oh

[0:46:13] Voice 1: just that a

[0:46:14] Voice 1: unanimous vote is harder it's that built-in mechanism again um you know that speaks to

[0:46:21] Voice 1: intent if you want to make something harder you say unanimous vote versus

[0:46:25] Voice 1: says

[0:46:25] Trustee Johnston: it's not clear to me why it changes should one one thing than the other why we would want

[0:46:32] Trustee Johnston: to make something harder and it's just not obvious to me right so that that's that's okay

[0:46:39] Trustee Johnston: well you'd have to look

[0:46:41] Voice 1: at each section to tell you why yeah

[0:46:44] Trustee Luckham: and it's it's generally all decision

[0:46:47] Trustee Luckham: making is by majority but in those situations where you're changing policy or procedure

[0:46:53] Trustee Luckham: in a significant way where there's an intent to provide even a legislative requirement

[0:47:02] Trustee Luckham: of sorts, more significant thing, then you go to unanimous. And in this case here,

[0:47:08] Trustee Luckham: what the suggestion is, is if you want to change the written notice of about a meeting, except

[0:47:18] Trustee Luckham: that notice to local trust committee members may be waived, you want everybody to have

[0:47:23] Trustee Luckham: consensus on that because it's significantly changing your rights as a trustee to be able

[0:47:32] Trustee Luckham: to do something so that is the it's a much more weighty decision that you're making and i think

[0:47:40] Trustee Luckham: the intent is that somebody is not going to be outvoted as does happen from time to time yeah

[0:47:48] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[0:47:49] Trustee Johnston: Can I, are we, are you, it's 10 o'clock when I know there was some hope that this

[0:47:55] Trustee Johnston: meeting would be over. Is there a need to, to end soon?

[0:48:00] Trustee Luckham: I don't want to be here all day. Lunch

[0:48:02] Trustee Luckham: is something I was hoping to break for. Okay.

[0:48:04] Trustee Luckham: Lunch. And Tim, Heather. Okay. I think we want

[0:48:11] Trustee Luckham: to get this done. So

[0:48:12] Trustee Johnston: can we go? If I can just say briefly in section six, doesn't mention

[0:48:16] Trustee Johnston: communication by email, and virtually all of our communication is email, notification and whatnot.

[0:48:22] Trustee Johnston: And I think that that should be addressed. But I'm happy just to say that. You know,

[0:48:30] Trustee Johnston: we're to provide a mailing address and a telephone number to the trust office.

[0:48:36] Trustee Luckham: What would you suggest there, Heather? That's a good question.

[0:48:40] Voice 1: I think that's a legitimate question. And we did specifically ask whether a mailing address could

[0:48:48] Voice 1: could be generally understood

[0:48:49] Voice 1: to be an email address as well, but it's not.

[0:48:52] Voice 1: It really is a physical address.

[0:48:54] Voice 1: So it might be a good idea to amend that, to add email.

[0:48:59] Voice 1: And maybe that's-

[0:49:00] Voice 1: So

[0:49:01] Trustee Luckham: perhaps in each one of those occurrences

[0:49:03] Trustee Luckham: of mailing address, it could say, or email address.

[0:49:06] Voice 1: Yeah.

[0:49:08] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[0:49:10] Trustee Luckham: So I'll make a note of that, Peter.

[0:49:15] Trustee Luckham: Tim, sorry, too many Peters in this room.

[0:49:20] Trustee Luckham: i can tell that tim peterson over yeah

[0:49:23] Voice 4: i just have i have a question for the regional planning

[0:49:26] Voice 4: manager um i i recall um and i'm sort of perusing looking for it here again it sort of referenced

[0:49:34] Voice 4: at one point that the um the chair or the the chair designate um running a meeting you know

[0:49:44] Voice 4: I believe in our previous meeting bylaw,

[0:49:49] Voice 4: there was mentioned that if the chair

[0:49:51] Voice 4: wasn't physically present,

[0:49:53] Voice 4: that one of the physically present trustees

[0:49:56] Voice 4: would chair the meeting.

[0:49:58] Voice 4: And what made sense about that to me is that of course,

[0:50:03] Voice 4: it's much easier to chair an in-person meeting

[0:50:06] Voice 4: if you're there in person than electronically.

[0:50:09] Voice 4: And I'm not seeing that language in here.

[0:50:12] Voice 4: and i wonder if you just want to talk about that for a moment i

[0:50:17] Voice 1: thought we had a section that does

[0:50:20] Voice 1: address that in

[0:50:22] Trustee Luckham: section 11 yeah right there okay so then we're now moved then to page 12 and you're

[0:50:29] Trustee Luckham: in section 11 it's at the top of the page 12 on

[0:50:35] Trustee Johnston: on the first line of that uh peter says alternate

[0:50:39] Trustee Johnston: member of the local trust committee and it actually should be executive committee when you're not able

[0:50:46] Trustee Johnston: When you're not able to attend our meeting, you appoint one of the other vice chairs, one of the vice chairs, to come and chair our meeting.

[0:50:55] Trustee Johnston: Yeah, but

[0:50:55] Trustee Luckham: that is appointed at the beginning of the term, and that person

[0:51:01] Trustee Luckham: is known as the alternate chair.

[0:51:06] Trustee Johnston: Oh, okay. I didn't realize that.

[0:51:08] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[0:51:09] Voice 7: But

[0:51:09] Trustee Johnston: it says here in the bylaw, neither the chairperson nor the alternate member of the local trust committee appointed by the chair is present.

[0:51:19] Trustee Johnston: And I think it

[0:51:20] Trustee Johnston: means the alternate member of the executive committee.

[0:51:27] Trustee Luckham: Well, that's true.

[0:51:29] Trustee Luckham: But I think the title of that person would be, and in fact, member is the wrong word there.

[0:51:36] Trustee Luckham: I think it maybe needs to be chair because that person is appointed at the beginning

[0:51:41] Trustee Luckham: of term and their title is alternate chair of the Leskete Island Local Trust Committee

[0:51:46] Trustee Luckham: in this case.

[0:51:47] Trustee Luckham: And so they're not just a member, but they're the chair.

[0:51:50] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[0:51:53] Trustee Luckham: So I see that it's a technicality, but yeah, but I would suggest that Heather, you agree

[0:52:00] Trustee Luckham: that that word member should maybe be chair and probably capitalized because it's a title

[0:52:07] Trustee Luckham: though.

[0:52:08] Trustee Johnston: And that leads to, if they're not here, you know, if they're in Parksville,

[0:52:17] Trustee Johnston: they couldn't make the ferry for some reason, can't they join us by electronic means? Would

[0:52:22] Trustee Johnston: they chair the meeting or they would call the meeting to order?

[0:52:25] Trustee Luckham: Well, I think that that is

[0:52:27] Trustee Luckham: the point that Tim has raised. I think it's probably as much a personal preference that I

[0:52:36] Trustee Luckham: have certainly spoken of is that I do agree with what Tim said, that the chair of the meeting

[0:52:43] Trustee Luckham: should be physically present where in all situations that it's possible. And so then

[0:52:50] Trustee Luckham: that would require the chair to appoint another member to chair the meeting. And I think that

[0:52:56] Trustee Luckham: that's how that would happen. So do we need language for that, Heather? And then Tim just

[0:53:02] Trustee Luckham: had his hand up and i'll go to the elected first yeah

[0:53:07] Voice 4: thank you chair yeah um i think that was in

[0:53:09] Voice 4: our in our previous um our previous procedures by law that you know that if if the chair isn't able

[0:53:18] Voice 4: to physically attend that one of the uh physically attending um members of the ltc should should uh

[0:53:25] Voice 4: share the meeting and i just think it's it's appropriate language to have in there because it's

[0:53:30] Voice 4: of course in a physical meeting it's much more difficult to chair electronically i just think

[0:53:36] Voice 4: it's functional um functional to have that in in the bylaw so

[0:53:43] Voice 1: if i may i so it is my understanding

[0:53:47] Voice 1: that what number 11 means is if the chair if neither the chair nor the chair's alternate

[0:53:55] Voice 1: as appointed by trust council attends the meeting and they're not there they're not electronically

[0:54:01] Voice 1: chronically there, they're not physically there. Then the procedures actually say, and this is

[0:54:06] Voice 1: what this reflects, is that the staff person who's present actually calls the meeting to order

[0:54:14] Voice 1: and the two trustees who are there in person decide which of you is going to chair the meeting.

[0:54:22] Voice 1: So this does capture that if the chairs don't show up. Is that what, is that?

[0:54:31] Voice 1: Yeah,

[0:54:32] Trustee Luckham: so I think you're right, but maybe for clarity, what we might want to say is that where it says the appointed by the chair of trust counsel is present, maybe say is physically present, then that would provide that opportunity for that appointment of a local trustee to chair the meeting.

[0:55:00] Trustee Luckham: Do you think

[0:55:01] Voice 1: the word physically present?

[0:55:02] Voice 1: happens yeah

[0:55:03] Trustee Johnston: i think that wouldn't work when we had an electronic meeting though

[0:55:07] Trustee Johnston: so

[0:55:13] Trustee Luckham: you could say in person out of yeah or we could just simply leave it and the intent would

[0:55:20] Trustee Luckham: unfold yeah and of course it could also yeah i guess a chair could be uh insistent to know i'm

[0:55:31] Trustee Luckham: going to chair the meeting and and then that would be how it would unfold but um

[0:55:39] Trustee Luckham: any suggestions for some language there should we be fiddling with this

[0:55:45] Trustee Luckham: heather i

[0:55:49] Voice 1: think it captures what i think it captures what you want it to capture

[0:55:53] Voice 1: and it's flexible enough to assume that the chair is is not present either physically or

[0:56:01] Voice 1: electronically so

[0:56:03] Trustee Luckham: if we added a totally new sentence then at the bottom we left that the

[0:56:07] Trustee Luckham: same because it's not too bad to say that the chair of the local trust committee may appoint

[0:56:15] Trustee Luckham: a local trustee to chair where the chair is unable to attend that's enabling language i

[0:56:26] Trustee Luckham: think and maybe that's what we need to have does that make sense to the two trustees

[0:56:33] Voice 4: um yeah i'd like to see something in there and uh you know in the in the interest of moving

[0:56:39] Voice 4: forward today maybe we could uh maybe we could think about this and come back and amend this

[0:56:44] Voice 4: by rwm if if that seems reasonable which gives us a little bit of time to maybe consider how

[0:56:52] Voice 4: how that wants to be worded because i i actually strongly feel that if we're having an in-person

[0:56:57] Voice 4: meeting and the chair is not able to attend physically that someone in the room should be

[0:57:03] Voice 4: caring if that's what's going on i think that that's what i'm trying to capture i believe that

[0:57:10] Voice 1: this language actually does capture that that someone in the room is deciding who the chairperson

[0:57:15] Voice 1: will be i think

[0:57:17] Voice 1: it does if you don't feel like it does clearly we could amend it that we but part of

[0:57:23] Voice 1: the reason that we have to have a special meeting is that we can't do second and third reading of a

[0:57:28] Voice 1: bylaw by rwm so um yeah that's why we're yeah

[0:57:35] Trustee Luckham: so that's and and we also can't make decisions

[0:57:39] Trustee Luckham: right or just

[0:57:40] Trustee Luckham: have discussion outside of an autograph so i would think that adding a sentence

[0:57:45] Trustee Luckham: sentence

[0:57:49] Voice 7: decided

[0:57:56] Trustee Luckham: I had that language a moment ago and maybe even Dave might have caught it but

[0:58:05] Trustee Luckham: doubtful because I didn't say that it was going to be a motion but a sentence be added to give

[0:58:12] Trustee Luckham: that clarity and I think it's reasonable to actually consider that we should actually make

[0:58:17] Trustee Luckham: all these amendments that we want to make today today because doing it because this is then going

[0:58:24] Trustee Luckham: going to go to executive committee for approval and we don't want to be amending it before it

[0:58:28] Trustee Luckham: gets to executive committee because we want that to come back but it does beg the question heather

[0:58:32] Trustee Luckham: and i don't think it's come up before and it wouldn't permit any discussion is that the when

[0:58:41] Trustee Luckham: the uh bylaw is adopted we can do the adoption by rwm there is also potential to amend at adoption

[0:58:50] Trustee Luckham: option as long as we're not changing the intent of the bylaw and so we could add something there

[0:58:58] Trustee Luckham: if we so chose at that time but it might be that ec might object to that but i can't see that

[0:59:06] Trustee Luckham: happening um so let's consider adding a sentence i think is to make it clean and just get it done

[0:59:12] Trustee Luckham: uh trustee peterson

[0:59:14] Voice 4: i've just sort of thrown a quick outline there in the chat and maybe we can

[0:59:21] Voice 4: use that as something to work on for that extra sense um for today

[0:59:27] Voice 7: yeah

[0:59:30] Voice 4: what it says is in an

[0:59:31] Voice 4: in-person meeting if the chair is unable to attend in person another trustee uh should have put shall

[0:59:37] Voice 4: be chosen to chair the meeting at the physical location okay so i

[0:59:40] Voice 4: would say let's add that

[0:59:42] Trustee Luckham: that sentence

[0:59:43] Voice 4: to this and

[0:59:44] Trustee Luckham: then i think

[0:59:45] Voice 4: that that makes it super explicit okay and that's what i'm

[0:59:50] Voice 4: aiming for okay so

[0:59:51] Trustee Luckham: that's that's in the um chat then so i'm gonna i'm gonna reference

[0:59:56] Trustee Luckham: it there when we get to around to getting a motion so i've got now

[1:00:00] Trustee Luckham: three or four things to change so far so if it's all right with you is there anything else on page

[1:00:06] Trustee Luckham: 12 not

[1:00:08] Trustee Johnston: for me okay

[1:00:13] Trustee Luckham: so let's then go to page 30 oh so yeah so then we're gonna screw we've already

[1:00:19] Trustee Luckham: done this stuff uh so now i think electronic meetings which is on page 15 there's a few

[1:00:28] Trustee Luckham: edits there are there any objections to those edits on what is now renumbered items 41 through

[1:00:38] Trustee Luckham: uh 51

[1:00:40] Trustee Johnston: yeah we're going to have to take out beyond the minimum number of physical meetings

[1:00:46] Trustee Johnston: identified in section three okay so where is that exactly the second line of 41 oh

[1:00:56] Trustee Luckham: i see yeah so

[1:00:57] Trustee Luckham: So a regular or special meeting in local trust committee

[1:01:04] Trustee Luckham: beyond the minimum number of physical meetings

[1:01:07] Trustee Luckham: identified in section three

[1:01:08] Trustee Luckham: may be conducted entirely by means of audio.

[1:01:12] Trustee Johnston: I think, didn't we decide to get rid of that requirement

[1:01:16] Trustee Johnston: to have two electronic meetings?

[1:01:18] Trustee Johnston: Yes.

[1:01:19] Trustee Johnston: Yeah.

[1:01:19] Trustee Johnston: So we need to take this out

[1:01:21] Trustee Johnston: because it's not there anymore in section three.

[1:01:26] Voice 1: Agreed.

[1:01:26] Voice 1: That would make sense.

[1:01:27] Voice 1: so

[1:01:28] Trustee Luckham: we just delete what do we then delete there the

[1:01:31] Trustee Johnston: underlying bits beyond the minimum number

[1:01:34] Trustee Johnston: of physical meetings identified in section three so

[1:01:37] Trustee Luckham: then it will read a regular or special

[1:01:40] Trustee Luckham: or special meeting so the local trust committee may be conducted entirely by means okay so we'll

[1:01:46] Trustee Luckham: just delete that underlying section okay thank you so number are you in concurrence with that

[1:01:52] Trustee Luckham: Tim okay beyond the minimum and that's a delete okay and I'm guessing you're probably tracking

[1:02:06] Trustee Luckham: this as well Heather anything else on page 15 okay not seeing hands jump up so that would take

[1:02:16] Trustee Luckham: us to page 16 sorry that's

[1:02:19] Trustee Johnston: all right I've got a note here for under 43 yeah oh yeah 43 44 and 45

[1:02:27] Trustee Johnston: these are the ones heather was saying are limiting yes uh and i wonder why why why are we

[1:02:34] Trustee Johnston: including these what's the the need or use of usefulness of this to

[1:02:41] Trustee Luckham: force you to come to a

[1:02:42] Trustee Luckham: physical meeting

[1:02:42] Trustee Johnston: to put it bluntly

[1:02:46] Trustee Johnston: but but we've we've just said that we can have if if we choose

[1:02:51] Trustee Johnston: if we feel there's a need to only all electronic meetings hopefully we won't need to or feel the

[1:02:58] Trustee Johnston: need to but oh but we can each participate in only one of them then we can't do the next one

[1:03:06] Trustee Johnston: or

[1:03:07] Trustee Luckham: none of them but anyway

[1:03:08] Trustee Johnston: it says when it has been scheduled for an in-person meeting

[1:03:11] Trustee Johnston: okay so

[1:03:14] Trustee Luckham: you're okay with that now tim okay so we're going to retain those sections

[1:03:19] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[1:03:20] Trustee Johnston: now the the last part of 45 providing the waiver does not conflict with provincial

[1:03:25] Trustee Johnston: provincial legislation? It doesn't. I mean, I guess provincial legislation could come into effect

[1:03:37] Trustee Johnston: that conflicts with this.

[1:03:40] Trustee Luckham: Well, yeah, I think that it's any future amendments that might come

[1:03:45] Trustee Luckham: about, and there's no doubt that if that did change, it would be brought to the attention of

[1:03:49] Trustee Luckham: all LCCs.

[1:03:50] Trustee Johnston: Does that mean to be in there, that phrase, providing the waiver does not conflict?

[1:03:58] Voice 1: Heather? I guess I would say no. There's always an assumption that your legislation isn't supposed

[1:04:05] Voice 1: to conflict. You're not supposed to be doing things that conflict with provincial legislation.

[1:04:09] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so we'll delete number 45 then and re-number.

[1:04:14] Trustee Johnston: No, no, just the last phrase of it.

[1:04:18] Trustee Johnston: Right. Starting with provided.

[1:04:21] Trustee Luckham: Oh, I see. So delete from provided.

[1:04:29] Trustee Luckham: No, that makes sense. It's extra. We can save the ink when we're printing. Okay, that's good. Thank you, Peter. Anything else on page 15? Then let's have a glance at page 16. Anything there?

[1:04:49] Trustee Luckham: Yes.

[1:04:50] Trustee Johnston: Section 50, the actual regulation says it could be a staff member or officer appointed by the trust body.

[1:05:01] Trustee Johnston: And I don't know what that means, a trust body or officer.

[1:05:07] Trustee Johnston: Like Heather has said, through this, it says staff member, and the regulation says officer appointed or a staff member.

[1:05:15] Trustee Johnston: right

[1:05:17] Voice 1: and and the the legal interpretation of the regulation is that it has to be a staff member

[1:05:24] Voice 1: in an office it does say officer in the regulation but an officer is a full-time staff person

[1:05:31] Voice 1: oh

[1:05:32] Trustee Johnston: does that mean like a manager no

[1:05:35] Voice 1: it doesn't have to be a manager it

[1:05:37] Trustee Luckham: means a secretary for

[1:05:38] Trustee Luckham: the most part yeah

[1:05:40] Voice 1: it is yeah

[1:05:41] Trustee Johnston: a principle of lawmaking is that if you use two words they

[1:05:45] Trustee Johnston: have different meaning i mean all officers if officers were all staff members they wouldn't

[1:05:51] Trustee Johnston: have put it in there yeah

[1:05:54] Voice 1: i mean the way that i've seen officer used in other ways is for instance if

[1:06:00] Voice 1: you have an approving officer for subdivisions there's a particular there's a particular staff

[1:06:06] Voice 1: person that is um appointed to be an officer and so for islands trust that often is the secretary

[1:06:15] Voice 1: or the secretary's designate, or in our case, it is an island planner. So they're a planning

[1:06:23] Voice 1: officer. What it doesn't include is, for instance, a minute taker. So if Dave were the only person

[1:06:33] Voice 1: representing kind of a person who gets paid to work by Islands Trust, he does not qualify as

[1:06:42] Voice 1: an officer and the trustees don't qualify as officers they're people who are staff members

[1:06:48] Voice 1: who are specifically appointed or

[1:06:50] Trustee Luckham: receptionist or any of those other functions that are not

[1:06:58] Voice 1: well yeah yeah exactly okay

[1:07:02] Trustee Johnston: i can i'll i'll let that go yeah

[1:07:09] Trustee Luckham: i think it's a minor staff will be

[1:07:11] Trustee Luckham: sure that we're following the legislation i think that's the key in all of this anything else on

[1:07:17] Trustee Luckham: on page 16?

[1:07:19] Trustee Johnston: Oh, sorry.

[1:07:24] Trustee Johnston: Yes.

[1:07:26] Trustee Johnston: This 51.3, first of all, I want to say,

[1:07:31] Trustee Johnston: somewhere in this earlier,

[1:07:33] Trustee Johnston: it says that these things shall be recorded in the minutes.

[1:07:36] Trustee Johnston: It also says in a different paragraph

[1:07:38] Trustee Johnston: that the system we use has to record the comings and goings

[1:07:43] Trustee Johnston: of people from a meeting.

[1:07:46] Trustee Luckham: Elected members.

[1:07:47] Trustee Luckham: members right

[1:07:49] Trustee Johnston: okay um and the 51.3 it says if after 15 minutes a link cannot be re-established

[1:08:00] Trustee Johnston: and there is not a quorum of the local trust committee members the meeting will be deemed

[1:08:04] Trustee Johnston: adjourned and the item under discussion at the time of loss of communication will be added to

[1:08:09] Trustee Johnston: the next agenda i my feeling is that 15 minutes is too short a period that you know if if my

[1:08:17] Trustee Johnston: My Internet goes out now.

[1:08:19] Trustee Johnston: Well, of course, if it's just two of us and one of our Internet goes out, you know, we might have to relocate to get a signal.

[1:08:25] Trustee Johnston: It might take half an hour or even an hour.

[1:08:29] Trustee Johnston: And it seems, especially a meeting that's scheduled and has a large agenda, it might be worth meeting or making this more than 15 minutes.

[1:08:40] Trustee Luckham: How long would you like to make it?

[1:08:41] Trustee Johnston: Well, I don't know.

[1:08:42] Trustee Johnston: No, you know, communication could be done by telephone with the person saying it'll take me 45 minutes.

[1:08:48] Trustee Johnston: I would say within one hour would be adequate.

[1:08:54] Trustee Luckham: Is that

[1:08:54] Trustee Luckham: OK, Heather? I don't see trouble with that.

[1:08:56] Trustee Johnston: What do you think, Tim?

[1:09:01] Voice 4: I can't speak to anybody else's location, but I would say that it takes me.

[1:09:10] Voice 4: me, I could be in, you know, in False Bay in about eight minutes. I'm not sure how long

[1:09:19] Voice 4: it would take you. I mean, I find sometimes I have to go there for a phone call to get

[1:09:26] Voice 4: reception. So I would say let's do it based on what it would take to get from the south

[1:09:34] Voice 4: end to the north end so i i'd say a half an hour would be plenty it would be my guess but i'm not

[1:09:41] Voice 4: i'm not attached to what that is i just think it especially if the you know if the meetings

[1:09:47] Voice 4: remaining open i mean if it was going to be i guess recess during that time as would be the

[1:09:53] Voice 4: oh probably

[1:09:54] Trustee Luckham: we would probably we would

[1:09:56] Voice 4: recess if there's a no yeah

[1:09:58] Voice 4: and and then if that's the case

[1:10:00] Voice 4: then you know i i'm fine with an hour it doesn't bother me but yeah i guess that

[1:10:05] Voice 4: should be

[1:10:07] Voice 4: sufficient i

[1:10:08] Trustee Johnston: would yeah i'm happy to say 45 minutes because i'm not sure i could get i don't

[1:10:12] Trustee Johnston: get my computer packed up walk up the trail and get to falsely and get set up within half an hour

[1:10:18] Trustee Johnston: but i could certainly do it within 15 minutes i mean 45 45

[1:10:22] Trustee Luckham: so let's make it 45 um there's

[1:10:26] Trustee Luckham: it's obviously some flexibility there. And, you know,

[1:10:29] Trustee Luckham: the other thing that I think is that we live on islands and the reason you've

[1:10:32] Trustee Luckham: lost a connection is because a great big tree has fallen over the road and that

[1:10:36] Trustee Luckham: may slow you down to get to false bay.

[1:10:39] Trustee Luckham: It's true.

[1:10:41] Trustee Luckham: You'd have to carry your little motorcycle over the log,

[1:10:44] Trustee Luckham: get to the other side and then continue on. So, okay.

[1:10:50] Trustee Luckham: 45 minutes. We'll make that. All right.

[1:10:56] Trustee Luckham: Anything else on page 16?

[1:11:01] Trustee Luckham: Okay. I think that does it then, because I see that next thing that's here is signatures and

[1:11:06] Trustee Luckham: stuff. So I think that actually concludes this. So maybe rather than making it more confusing,

[1:11:13] Trustee Luckham: what I'll do is I'll go through my list and I'll just make it a motion, Dave.

[1:11:21] Trustee Luckham: And then if I managed to get it right, then we'll advance that. And then I'll come back and say,

[1:11:27] Trustee Luckham: you that any other amendments so then what i'm looking at here is i would i would move that the

[1:11:34] Trustee Luckham: the studio local trust committee amend uh draft bylaw number 100 2022 and the citation may need

[1:11:46] Trustee Luckham: to be changed but you can figure that part out that at i a bullet number three that um

[1:12:00] Trustee Luckham: the words add held in person.

[1:12:05] Trustee Luckham: Is that right?

[1:12:06] Trustee Luckham: The first and second.

[1:12:10] Trustee Luckham: Oh yeah.

[1:12:10] Trustee Luckham: So where it's held in.

[1:12:11] Trustee Luckham: Oh, okay.

[1:12:12] Trustee Luckham: So that's been corrected already.

[1:12:14] Trustee Luckham: Look at that magic held in person.

[1:12:16] Trustee Luckham: And at item six,

[1:12:20] Trustee Luckham: mailing address include email address.

[1:12:27] Trustee Luckham: And are you going to edit that Heather?

[1:12:30] Trustee Luckham: Is it you that has the screen?

[1:12:31] Trustee Luckham: Oh,

[1:12:32] Voice 1: I don't have a screen now.

[1:12:33] Voice 1: Oh.

[1:12:34] Voice 1: Oh, oh,

[1:12:36] Trustee Luckham: I see. That's interesting because I'm looking at, um, do you want me

[1:12:42] Voice 1: to do that?

[1:12:44] Voice 1: I'm not sharing my, I don't see that anybody is sharing their screen.

[1:12:47] Voice 1: That might

[1:12:48] Trustee Luckham: be, I was, I was confused because I'm running a second computer here with the thing on

[1:12:52] Trustee Luckham: it. And I just saw that it said held in person. Um, so I think what we're doing is deleting the

[1:12:59] Trustee Luckham: words held in person. Is that right on number three? Yes.

[1:13:02] Trustee Luckham: Okay. So deleting the words held

[1:13:05] Trustee Luckham: in person on bullet number three so then on bullet number six we're going to add email address to

[1:13:13] Trustee Luckham: follow the two occurrences of mailing address and email address and then are you with me dave

[1:13:29] Trustee Luckham: yes i am thanks perfect thank you so then at item number 11 bullet number 11 that the uh

[1:13:37] Trustee Luckham: alternate the words alternate member be replaced with alternate chair and capitalized

[1:13:46] Trustee Luckham: and a sentence be added to that section that says bear with me that in an in-person meeting

[1:14:00] Trustee Luckham: if the chair is unable to attend in person another trustee shall be chosen to be

[1:14:08] Trustee Luckham: sorry to shall be chosen to chair the meeting at the physical location period and that was in the

[1:14:20] Trustee Luckham: chat dave if you forgot that so purposely going a little slow to allow you to catch up there dave

[1:14:31] Trustee Luckham: i'm going to scroll down to item 41 as the next item and we are going to delete

[1:14:42] Trustee Luckham: delete from item 41, the words beyond the minimum number of physical meetings identified in section

[1:14:49] Trustee Luckham: three. And I'm going to let you shout, Dave, if I'm going too fast. So item 45, we're

[1:15:16] Voice 6: going to,

[1:15:22] Trustee Luckham: oh, wrong one. We're going to delete everything after unanimous resolution

[1:15:29] Trustee Luckham: resolution and replace it with a period. And then finally, at 51.3, we're going to change

[1:15:46] Trustee Luckham: 15 minutes to 45 minutes. And that's my motion. And we can wait for Dave to share that on the

[1:16:02] Trustee Luckham: screen. Or if you're satisfied with that, I could seek a seconder.

[1:16:12] Voice 6: I'm glad to share it. It's

[1:16:14] Voice 6: It's not as elegantly written as it will be, but it's got all of your points.

[1:16:20] Voice 6: So let me see if I can show you.

[1:16:22] Voice 6: You're a good lad.

[1:16:23] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:16:26] Voice 6: There's too many windows.

[1:16:36] Trustee Luckham: And did I manage to capture it all, Heather?

[1:16:39] Trustee Luckham: Oh, yeah.

[1:16:40] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:16:42] Trustee Luckham: All right.

[1:16:43] Trustee Luckham: So there it is on your screen.

[1:16:44] Trustee Luckham: So I'll give you a moment to read that.

[1:16:46] Trustee Luckham: And as Dave said, it's not maybe as eloquent as it will be.

[1:16:51] Trustee Luckham: um if that captures the points then i'll look for a seconder and just show your hand up when

[1:16:57] Trustee Luckham: you're ready thank you uh

[1:17:01] Voice 4: chair yes sir sure

[1:17:03] Voice 4: uh um so uh for the number 11 there

[1:17:08] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[1:17:09] Voice 4: um you said it but i i didn't neglect to put it in the chat another trustee shall be chosen

[1:17:18] Voice 6: sure oh

[1:17:22] Voice 7: yeah thank you perfect thank you and

[1:17:27] Trustee Luckham: that's uh alternate chair capitalized alternate

[1:17:31] Trustee Luckham: as well i think because i think it's actually a title first line and of course i'd be happy

[1:17:42] Trustee Luckham: to correct be corrected on that i often suggest that english is my second language but i don't

[1:17:48] Trustee Luckham: know i don't speak any other languages a little bit of swiss a tiny little bit of uh

[1:17:55] Trustee Luckham: hulkaminum and an even smaller amount of japanese but not in public okay so that was seconded by

[1:18:07] Trustee Luckham: tim peterson so if we're okay with that then i'll uh ask if there's any further discussion or

[1:18:13] Trustee Luckham: and and if not call for the vote all those in favor raise

[1:18:17] Trustee Luckham: your hands any opposed don't be

[1:18:21] Trustee Luckham: be opposed anybody none opposed if

[1:18:24] Trustee Johnston: i can i my vague memory is that do this we're supposed to

[1:18:31] Trustee Johnston: have a a copy of the bylaw in front of us and i

[1:18:37] Trustee Johnston: might i might

[1:18:38] Trustee Luckham: have you well you do have a copy

[1:18:40] Trustee Luckham: of the bylaw and we've amended the bylaw with these amendments

[1:18:43] Trustee Johnston: okay well

[1:18:44] Trustee Luckham: yeah and so what i

[1:18:45] Trustee Luckham: would now say is that what we will if we're okay we don't have any further amendments but i'm going

[1:18:51] Trustee Luckham: to ask that question once i've asked that question then we will go to first reading of the bylaw as

[1:18:57] Trustee Luckham: amended okay yeah all right

[1:18:59] Trustee Luckham: so

[1:19:00] Trustee Johnston: then i'll ask now

[1:19:01] Trustee Luckham: if there are any other amendments that you would

[1:19:04] Trustee Luckham: like to make um with the bylaw i

[1:19:09] Trustee Johnston: have no further amendments then

[1:19:11] Trustee Luckham: i would ask one of you to make

[1:19:13] Trustee Luckham: the motion that is at the beginning of the report the first one and and that it be as amended i

[1:19:21] Trustee Luckham: I think probably it needs to say I'm scrolling to get to that place myself.

[1:19:26] Trustee Luckham: Be read a first time as amended.

[1:19:29] Trustee Luckham: So just to pen that.

[1:19:30] Trustee Luckham: So go ahead.

[1:19:31] Trustee Johnston: I'd like to move that Luskiniana Local Trust Committee Bylaw Number 100, cited as Luskiniana Local Trust Committee Meeting Procedures Bylaw 2022, be read as amended, be read a first time.

[1:19:46] Trustee Luckham: I think we usually put as amended at the end of the sentence.

[1:19:49] Trustee Johnston: okay be right at first time as amended yeah

[1:19:52] Trustee Luckham: perfect so do you have a seconder tim peterson

[1:19:57] Trustee Luckham: thank you any further discussion all those in favor so that carries uh you can alternate

[1:20:07] Trustee Luckham: making these uh readings or as you see fit i

[1:20:13] Voice 4: move that the luskety island local trust committee

[1:20:15] Voice 4: bylaw number 100 oh sorry cited as luskety island local trust committee

[1:20:25] Voice 4: Committee Meeting Procedures By-law 2002

[1:20:27] Voice 4: be read a second time as amended.

[1:20:30] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, it's 2022.

[1:20:32] Trustee Luckham: And I think that we don't need the as amended part now.

[1:20:34] Trustee Luckham: Do we, Heather?

[1:20:37] Voice 1: No, you do need it as amended

[1:20:38] Voice 1: and it should come before the reading part.

[1:20:41] Voice 1: So 2022

[1:20:41] Trustee Luckham: as amended, read second time.

[1:20:45] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so we'll make sure that first one reads the same way.

[1:20:48] Trustee Luckham: I have stand corrected.

[1:20:51] Trustee Luckham: Okay, moved and seconded.

[1:20:52] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor?

[1:20:53] Trustee Luckham: any opposed none opposed and thank you a

[1:21:01] Trustee Luckham: little bit a little bit of hesitation on tim's connection

[1:21:04] Trustee Luckham: there so the third uh reading i'd like to move

[1:21:08] Trustee Johnston: to the skitty island whoops uh local trust committee

[1:21:11] Trustee Johnston: by law 100 cited as the skidiana local committee local trust committee meaning procedures by law

[1:21:18] Trustee Johnston: law 2022 be read a third sorry as amended be read a third time thank

[1:21:25] Trustee Luckham: you peter that's good

[1:21:27] Trustee Luckham: seconded tim peterson thank you any discussion all those in favor any opposed none opposed that

[1:21:36] Trustee Luckham: carries unanimously all right and finally forwarding to uh executive committee

[1:21:43] Voice 4: and i

[1:21:44] Voice 4: I move that Lusketia Island Local Trust Committee

[1:21:47] Voice 4: bylaw number 100 cited as Lusketia Island Local Trust

[1:21:51] Voice 4: Committee meeting procedures bylaw 2022

[1:21:56] Voice 4: as amended be forwarded to the secretary of the island

[1:21:59] Voice 4: trust for approval by the executive committee.

[1:22:02] Voice 4: I'll second that.

[1:22:03] Trustee Luckham: Moved and seconded.

[1:22:05] Trustee Luckham: Any further discussion?

[1:22:07] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor?

[1:22:10] Trustee Luckham: That two carries unanimously.

[1:22:12] Trustee Luckham: Well, that's excellent.

[1:22:14] Trustee Luckham: So that deals with the bylaw. Now there's an additional recommendation here, which we haven't discussed. And probably the easiest way to do that would be to make a motion, we can have the discussion. But Heather, do you want to introduce this additional recommendation in any way, shape or form?

[1:22:30] Trustee Luckham: Yeah,

[1:22:31] Voice 1: I just wanted to say that if we don't get an additional staff person next year, electronic meetings will continue the way they have been continuing.

[1:22:42] Voice 1: So the chairs of each of the committees will bring technological equipment and be running the electronic meetings.

[1:22:51] Voice 1: And we we can stream, but we won't be able to have town halls or or we're going to have to rethink the whole staffing thing.

[1:23:01] Voice 1: So if you want the trust council to consider it,

[1:23:07] Voice 1: now is the time to do that

[1:23:09] Voice 1: since they are adopting a budget in March.

[1:23:14] Voice 1: All

[1:23:17] Trustee Luckham: right, so does anybody want to make that motion?

[1:23:21] Trustee Luckham: Do you have any questions for staff with respect to that?

[1:23:24] Trustee Luckham: I

[1:23:24] Trustee Johnston: have a question.

[1:23:25] Trustee Johnston: This staff person wouldn't solely do meetings

[1:23:28] Trustee Johnston: because there aren't enough meetings.

[1:23:31] Trustee Johnston: There are many days with no meetings

[1:23:33] Trustee Johnston: and there are some days with two or three meetings going on,

[1:23:36] Trustee Johnston: sometimes simultaneously.

[1:23:38] Trustee Johnston: So what else would this staff person do?

[1:23:43] Trustee Johnston: Does it really need a whole staff person?

[1:23:46] Trustee Johnston: It needs most of the staff person, I think.

[1:23:51] Voice 1: I believe there was a business case that went to Trust Council

[1:23:54] Voice 1: that laid that out, and it was one full-time staff person.

[1:24:01] Voice 1: And the reason is that it's it's all of the electronic meetings that go on for all of the LTCs and the Trust Council and the Trust Council committees.

[1:24:12] Voice 1: So it's and

[1:24:14] Trustee Luckham: advisory planning commissions.

[1:24:17] Voice 1: Yeah, well, no, because advisory planning commissions aren't able by the legislation to have electronic meetings.

[1:24:25] Voice 1: meetings so um so but it is it is every committee it is every meeting and it is the entire meeting

[1:24:33] Voice 1: so they're attending a meeting where yeah so and and all of that time actually does add up to one

[1:24:41] Voice 1: full-time person okay

[1:24:43] Trustee Johnston: i i know that locally uh sorry trust council meetings are covered now

[1:24:47] Trustee Johnston: uh they're done with it with the town hall with delegations electronically

[1:24:51] Trustee Johnston: electronically um so are the committee meetings done the same way with the staff person

[1:24:58] Trustee Johnston: no i i yes

[1:25:03] Trustee Luckham: robert barlow typically runs the meetings in the south um so yeah yeah and he

[1:25:10] Trustee Luckham: that that is administered out of the victoria office so yes just answer yeah

[1:25:15] Trustee Johnston: to me that not

[1:25:16] Trustee Johnston: not having any possibility of public participation

[1:25:21] Trustee Johnston: is a big, it's the big negative about electronic meetings.

[1:25:28] Trustee Johnston: And, you know, I understand that, you know,

[1:25:33] Trustee Johnston: the staff would really like this.

[1:25:34] Trustee Johnston: I would really like it.

[1:25:35] Trustee Johnston: I'm not convinced.

[1:25:37] Trustee Johnston: I wasn't convinced by the business case

[1:25:40] Trustee Johnston: presented to Trust Council whenever that was.

[1:25:45] Trustee Johnston: So I don't know what to do about it.

[1:25:48] Trustee Luckham: Well, this is your opportunity to ask council

[1:25:52] Trustee Luckham: to reconsider that decision.

[1:25:53] Trustee Luckham: And so that's why this motion is here that if you,

[1:25:57] Trustee Luckham: if this LTC believes that you want to have

[1:26:01] Trustee Luckham: the public participation in a meeting,

[1:26:03] Trustee Luckham: which will require a staff person to manage those meetings,

[1:26:08] Trustee Luckham: then this is our opportunity to ask council

[1:26:11] Trustee Luckham: to reconsider that decision well

[1:26:15] Trustee Johnston: i i'm i guess i i would guess that approximately half the meetings

[1:26:20] Trustee Johnston: being trust council and the committee meetings are do are managing now it's the local trust

[1:26:25] Trustee Johnston: committee meetings that are not managing and i i'm not convinced that the only way to do it is to

[1:26:32] Trustee Johnston: have a staff person do it it might be that it's not possible to do it but tim go

[1:26:41] Trustee Luckham: ahead tim yeah

[1:26:44] Voice 4: Yeah, I'm just gonna, if it's all right with you, Chair,

[1:26:48] Voice 4: I'm just gonna go ahead and make the motion.

[1:26:50] Voice 4: I'll just briefly say that we're just asking

[1:26:53] Voice 4: Trust Council to consider this.

[1:26:55] Voice 4: That's no guarantee it's going to happen,

[1:26:59] Voice 4: but I do support the added level of public participation

[1:27:04] Voice 4: that this position is promising to offer,

[1:27:08] Voice 4: and it's up to Trust Council to decide

[1:27:13] Voice 4: decide whether they're going to fund that position or not.

[1:27:16] Voice 4: And so if it's all right with the chair,

[1:27:18] Voice 4: I'll just go ahead and make a motion.

[1:27:19] Voice 4: Sure.

[1:27:22] Voice 4: I move that the Lusketia Island Local Trust Committee

[1:27:25] Voice 4: request that trust council consider adding

[1:27:27] Voice 4: a full-time staff position to the 2022-23 fiscal year budget

[1:27:32] Voice 4: for electronic meeting support.

[1:27:36] Trustee Luckham: So let's move, do I have a seconder?

[1:27:41] Trustee Luckham: Well, I'm going to second it then.

[1:27:42] Trustee Luckham: And if you're not going to Peter,

[1:27:44] Trustee Luckham: in order to get the discussion on the table.

[1:27:46] Trustee Luckham: and so do you wish to speak to the motion tim uh

[1:27:52] Voice 4: i think i pretty much said what i was going to say

[1:27:56] Voice 4: it's this is really it's trust council's decision um the reason i'm uh in favor of

[1:28:02] Voice 4: the trust committee the reason i'm

[1:28:10] Voice 4: in favor of the local trust committee recommending it to trust

[1:28:14] Voice 4: council as i outlined is because it promises more opportunity for public participation

[1:28:19] Voice 4: patient electronic meetings and that sort of thing.

[1:28:26] Trustee Luckham: Fair enough.

[1:28:26] Trustee Luckham: And maybe I'll speak to the motion as a seconder here.

[1:28:33] Trustee Luckham: You know, you can be sure that this person

[1:28:35] Trustee Luckham: will not be sitting idle.

[1:28:37] Trustee Luckham: There's no doubt that along

[1:28:39] Trustee Luckham: with that electronic meeting management component,

[1:28:42] Trustee Luckham: I suspect that that person will also be tasked

[1:28:46] Trustee Luckham: with some of the other administrative work associated

[1:28:49] Trustee Luckham: with creating and scheduling meetings,

[1:28:50] Trustee Luckham: meetings, even possibly RWMs, don't know, Heather, but for sure that that capacity will

[1:28:56] Trustee Luckham: be absorbed if there is any.

[1:29:00] Trustee Luckham: And that will certainly relieve some of our planning staff from those functions that they

[1:29:06] Trustee Luckham: are presently doing that detracts them from conducting project work and constructing applications

[1:29:12] Trustee Luckham: and those sorts of things.

[1:29:14] Trustee Luckham: So it certainly will be some good additional resources to allow the meeting procedures to be conducted more effectively, I would think.

[1:29:29] Trustee Luckham: So is there any other discussion?

[1:29:35] Trustee Luckham: Your microphone is off, Peter.

[1:29:39] Trustee Johnston: The nurse arrived early.

[1:29:41] Trustee Johnston: I'm not convinced that this is the only way to do it.

[1:29:45] Trustee Johnston: I understand it's the easiest way, it's the simplest way, it's the best way, but it's the most expensive way or a very expensive way.

[1:29:56] Trustee Johnston: I would like to be able to explore.

[1:30:00] Trustee Johnston: hiring a contractor for each local trust committee or or other options um but you know i i'm i'm not

[1:30:11] Trustee Johnston: going to oppose the the emotion but that goes to my doubt yeah

[1:30:16] Trustee Luckham: so you know i think it's reasonable

[1:30:18] Trustee Luckham: to explore some of the the thoughts their discussion um because it was it's been brought

[1:30:25] Trustee Luckham: up before that why can't we hire a local contractor to do that and i think part of it is is that

[1:30:31] Trustee Luckham: as we know on some islands it's difficult or impossible to get even minute takers

[1:30:38] Trustee Luckham: to do the work that we need and the min and it wouldn't be appropriate as the suggestion that

[1:30:46] Trustee Luckham: a minute taker do this stuff because the minute taker is responsible for doing minutes right and

[1:30:52] Trustee Luckham: And the other thing that's really critically important is the delivery of that meeting

[1:30:59] Trustee Luckham: management needs to be consistent across the trust.

[1:31:03] Trustee Luckham: And that contractor must have a really solid internet connection.

[1:31:09] Trustee Luckham: And on the Gulf Islands, I think what we found is that that's not always the case.

[1:31:14] Trustee Luckham: And the best connectivity often is at the offices and even to some extent, as maybe an example today is where there's a disruption of an internet connection at one office, there's the opportunity to connect on our backbone between the two offices to ensure stability of that connectivity.

[1:31:35] Trustee Luckham: So I we have explored that and considered that the it was not as robust a proposition.

[1:31:46] Trustee Luckham: So just share that with you and you can vote according to your conscience.

[1:31:50] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[1:31:50] Trustee Johnston: And I think some islands are not able to hold electronic meetings at all of any sort.

[1:31:55] Trustee Johnston: I might be wrong on that.

[1:31:59] Trustee Luckham: Some are more challenging and indeed venues are being changed.

[1:32:03] Trustee Luckham: even on salt spring it's surprising uh bringing people electronically into the lines hall on

[1:32:10] Trustee Luckham: uh salt spring has been difficult and we've now moved our meetings back to that church the unit

[1:32:16] Trustee Luckham: um that we've held you've been there for council um in order to help re-establish that but yeah

[1:32:22] Trustee Luckham: you're absolutely right so if there's no further discussion i'll call the vote okay so all those

[1:32:28] Trustee Luckham: in favor and any opposed and so i'm not seeing your hand up so you realize that that is a vote

[1:32:37] Trustee Luckham: in

[1:32:37] Trustee Johnston: favor it's a vote in favor

[1:32:39] Trustee Luckham: okay very good then so thank you very much for that uh trustee johnson

[1:32:43] Trustee Luckham: trustee peterson so i think that uh concludes this report we do not have any other business

[1:32:50] Trustee Luckham: our next meeting will be scheduled accordingly and uh i look forward to seeing you all so want

[1:32:56] Trustee Luckham: to thank you today heather for your support and um that wasn't too bad hour and 49 minutes um

[1:33:03] Trustee Luckham: and so that's excellent so we've prepared ourselves for whatever uh circumstances may

[1:33:10] Trustee Luckham: bring us in the future thank you everybody have a great day thank

[1:33:13] Trustee Johnston: you peter thank you heather

[1:33:14] Trustee Johnston: thank you all those

[1:33:16] Trustee Luckham: in favor and that carries and there we are we're done thank you thanks

[1:33:22] Trustee Johnston: Thanks, bye everyone.

[1:33:23] Trustee Luckham: Thanks Dave.

[1:33:24] Trustee Luckham: Thanks everyone.