Islands Trust Council regular meeting, February 10, 2023

[0:00:00] Voice 9: acknowledge that it's the ancestral territory of uh those people and that we're going to figure

[0:00:08] Voice 9: out ways of working with them uh in more meaningful and better ways um and this is one of the one of

[0:00:15] Voice 9: the ways we're starting um oh and there's that wonderful trust acknowledgement of all the

[0:00:21] Voice 9: different uh nations that are represented in the area at any rate um we have an agenda that is

[0:00:29] Voice 9: relatively small but um could take up a lot of time we're scheduled from nine until two

[0:00:37] Voice 9: and i'm thinking we can get through the um administrative things fairly quickly which

[0:00:44] Voice 9: could leave us if we took a break at noon for lunch um that could take us uh two and a half

[0:00:50] Voice 9: hours this morning and if we did that and there's roughly 10 of us in this committee

[0:00:56] Voice 9: that would give us about 15 minutes each to try and get through our first shot at this

[0:01:03] Voice 9: governance review document and what we want to do with it so that we can report out to the others

[0:01:10] Voice 9: and then that leaves us if we do want to go until two that leaves us another hour and a half to

[0:01:15] Voice 9: sort out um the schedule the work plan and what our next steps are going to be

[0:01:23] Voice 9: how does that sound in terms of time wise it's a long meeting okay so um we've got some new items

[0:01:35] Voice 9: on the agenda with, oops, I just lost my screen.

[0:01:46] Voice 9: What have I done?

[0:01:48] Voice 9: There it is.

[0:01:52] Voice 9: So with the addition of the laid items, Lee Middleton,

[0:01:57] Voice 9: Kate Louise Stamford and Joe Bernardo's submissions,

[0:02:06] Voice 9: with those additions,

[0:02:07] Voice 9: Do we have any other items that need to be added?

[0:02:17] Voice 9: Seeing none, whoops, sorry.

[0:02:20] Voice 4: Grant here.

[0:02:21] Voice 4: I'd like to make others wrote theirs in.

[0:02:26] Voice 4: I'd like to orally do mine.

[0:02:29] Voice 4: Submission, please.

[0:02:30] Voice 4: Okay.

[0:02:31] Voice 4: Put me on the agenda there somewhere.

[0:02:34] Voice 4: All right.

[0:02:35] Voice 4: Thank you.

[0:02:35] Voice 9: So when we get into the governance committee,

[0:02:40] Voice 9: I can't remember if I had the number,

[0:02:43] Voice 9: but um 7

[0:02:44] Trustee Luckham: .1 i believe thank

[0:02:46] Voice 9: you then we'll um make sure remind me again grant if i i'll miss it okay

[0:02:52] Voice 4: okay sure thanks okay

[0:02:54] Voice 9: so uh motion to approve the agenda with the late items so

[0:03:00] Voice 8: moved thank you

[0:03:01] Voice 9: seconder any opposed all right let's carry on um so we've got um very very briefly getting

[0:03:17] Voice 9: getting through this administrative stuff

[0:03:18] Voice 9: as quickly as possible.

[0:03:19] Voice 9: We've got the correspondence from Ms. Gang,

[0:03:23] Voice 9: and I'm going to suggest that we take that as,

[0:03:28] Voice 9: I think it's talking about part of the same discussions

[0:03:31] Voice 9: that we're having today on this governance report,

[0:03:35] Voice 9: and we take it for information

[0:03:39] Voice 9: and speak to it specifically if we need to in the discussion.

[0:03:46] Voice 9: Any problem with that?

[0:03:51] Trustee Patrick: chair getty yes i think there was a public comment period item three on the agenda oh

[0:03:58] Trustee Patrick: sorry thank

[0:03:59] Voice 9: you is there anybody in the um public gallery lori yeah

[0:04:05] Voice 14: there's three uh participants

[0:04:07] Voice 14: they can raise their electronic hand there's also one telephone caller if they wish to address

[0:04:12] Voice 14: committee thank

[0:04:14] Voice 9: you thanks laura for reminding me anybody wanting to participate i don't see any

[0:04:25] Voice 9: hands all right um welcome enjoy should be an interesting conversation that we're going to get

[0:04:36] Voice 9: into and um not having any hands raised are there any delegations lori

[0:04:46] Voice 14: no there's not and if they

[0:04:48] Voice 14: were there would be an application indicating as such thanks

[0:04:51] Voice 9: okay so then back to the correspondence

[0:04:53] Voice 9: any problems with just tabling that for information yeah

[0:04:58] Trustee Luckham: we're seeding it for information would be

[0:04:59] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[0:05:02] Voice 9: So then, the minutes. January 19th, minutes for adoption. Any problems with those? Any additions or changes? Not seeing any hands raised. Can I get a motion to approve them?

[0:05:24] Voice 8: I move that the minutes of January 19th be adopted as presented.

[0:05:28] Voice 8: Thank you. Second?

[0:05:32] Voice 9: Thank you, Laura. And any more discussion?

[0:05:38] Voice 9: anybody excuse me anybody opposed all right so the minutes are moved

[0:05:45] Voice 9: um the follow-up action list um i can report out on the first one um russ has sent me a bunch of

[0:05:56] Voice 9: i guess five different articles that have been um talking about the whole issue of open and

[0:06:03] Voice 9: closed meetings and uh formal and informal meetings and i have read through them but

[0:06:08] Voice 9: but we haven't had a chance to go back over them and talk about them.

[0:06:12] Voice 9: It looks like there's been three or four occasions when previous municipal

[0:06:18] Voice 9: councils or trusts have asked the same question and we may not have to have a

[0:06:25] Voice 9: referral for a legal opinion,

[0:06:27] Voice 9: but I will spend some time talking to Russ about this.

[0:06:32] Voice 9: I'm happy to share any of that material with anybody.

[0:06:35] Voice 9: There's one in particular that's very helpful.

[0:06:37] Voice 9: the rest is about open or closed meetings and why and how and um then i think we'll um report back

[0:06:44] Voice 9: now russ you've put down a target date of march the 7th is that another meeting date or is that

[0:06:49] Voice 9: just in terms of making sure that you and i have a conversation by then

[0:06:53] Voice 10: it's thank madam chair it's

[0:06:56] Voice 10: it's ensuring that um it stays top of mind for us on this fuel but i don't think we would struggle

[0:07:03] Voice 10: Mayor Mrakas, In support of your comments, I did have an initial conversation with soup man has that young Anderson just prepping him up for any potential legal opinion if once requested and and that's a possibility in the future

[0:07:18] Voice 9: Okay, thank you, and I believe these other items are on the agenda and.

[0:07:27] Voice 8: Mayor Mrakas, Okay,

[0:07:32] Voice 9: scrolling down Thank you.

[0:07:35] Voice 11: Mayor Mrakas, Madam chair,

[0:07:36] Voice 9: yes, so

[0:07:37] Voice 10: for under director of the city council, I would like to make a comment on this, and I think it's important to note that.

[0:07:38] Voice 10: of legislative services services item one just letting you know that um those amendments have

[0:07:46] Voice 10: been developed and they're going to executive committee on monday in anticipation of going

[0:07:52] Voice 10: to trust council in march okay

[0:07:55] Voice 9: okay

[0:07:56] Voice 10: so that work has been uh advanced all

[0:08:00] Voice 9: right there was one more

[0:08:01] Voice 9: um okay and the operating funds so that has gone to the financial planning committee

[0:08:11] Voice 10: yes okay so

[0:08:14] Voice 9: that all of those work items then follow-up action items so good with a little a few extra minutes

[0:08:22] Voice 9: we're into uh business um work program items 7.1 analysis and priority setting of the february 22

[0:08:29] Voice 9: to governance report and we did our homework you guys are great so um has everybody had a chance

[0:08:38] Voice 9: to read all of the submissions anybody um how do you want to can we assume can we have this

[0:08:48] Voice 9: discussion assuming that everybody's had a chance to read there's a lot of material um if so i am

[0:08:58] Voice 9: am going to suggest that one of the things that I would find helpful is if we could go around

[0:09:04] Voice 9: and possibly focus on what we think is what would be our individual priority list

[0:09:12] Voice 9: and of all of these recommendations and things that have been omitted that we want to add that

[0:09:20] Voice 9: should be focused on or put some energy into and then start with that and see

[0:09:29] Voice 9: how we do in terms of a lot of these 15 recommendations

[0:09:38] Voice 9: and see if that helps us guide the

[0:09:40] Voice 8: discussion. How's that sound? Who would like to start?

[0:09:50] Voice 9: Laura, you're on my immediate right on this screen.

[0:09:57] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[0:09:59] Trustee Patrick: So what would, I'm sorry, I was, my phone had just gone off with a shelter in place for two armed suspects.

[0:10:06] Trustee Patrick: I mean, I'm on Ontario, so I was reading that.

[0:10:09] Trustee Patrick: That's not a normal thing we get on Salt Spring.

[0:10:11] Trustee Patrick: So I apologize.

[0:10:13] Trustee Patrick: What was your question again?

[0:10:15] Trustee Patrick: If

[0:10:16] Voice 9: you were to go through your review of this document, what would you put as your highest priority?

[0:10:27] Trustee Patrick: The highest priority for me is the process of the strategic plan, because to me, that's whatever recommendations that we're going to be formulating will end up in the strategic planning process.

[0:10:42] Trustee Patrick: So I really see the opportunities to provide recommendations into how to make that process effective and, you know, be that vehicle that will really drive, you know, how we get our work done.

[0:11:05] Trustee Patrick: done um so that's that's i kind of came to that one as being um sort of the the highest priority

[0:11:11] Trustee Patrick: because that's where the trust council is going to need to move into next and um do you see this

[0:11:18] Voice 9: sorry do you see this committee as um leading that process i

[0:11:24] Trustee Patrick: i saw us as being advisory in

[0:11:27] Trustee Patrick: in developing the process you know

[0:11:29] Trustee Patrick: how we could make that process better i i think the cao had

[0:11:33] Trustee Patrick: had made, I was only a first term, last term, and I understood, we saw the strategic plan from the

[0:11:40] Trustee Patrick: previous term. I know there were some attempts to focus the conversation in the last term.

[0:11:46] Trustee Patrick: I think this is an opportunity to go the next step further.

[0:11:51] Voice 9: All right. Lee, can I call on you next,

[0:11:54] Voice 9: please um

[0:11:56] Trustee Middleton: absolutely sure i think i i um one second not sure if you were able to hear me very

[0:12:09] Trustee Middleton: well before was that okay great um excuse me um so yeah i took the approach of doing exactly um

[0:12:18] Trustee Middleton: what you said chair in terms of uh just now in terms of trying to pull out priorities from it

[0:12:24] Trustee Middleton: it was a fairly closely interlinked set of recommendations that uh um the consultants

[0:12:31] Trustee Middleton: made and then sort of bouncing the ideas off um vice chair harris distilled it down

[0:12:38] Trustee Middleton: trying to be as clear as possible with what to move on and i think what i took from the record

[0:12:44] Trustee Middleton: and indeed because it was repeated quite a lot was that a framework for council to assume

[0:12:52] Trustee Middleton: its full role of political leadership and again they were not criticizing any individuals

[0:12:59] Trustee Middleton: um in the report about a failure of leadership they were talking more

[0:13:04] Voice 8: uh

[0:13:05] Trustee Middleton: systemically um

[0:13:07] Trustee Middleton: putting in place a structure where where council can more clearly and deliberatively express its

[0:13:15] Trustee Middleton: its will and that means of course per trustee patrick coming up with a plan with measurable

[0:13:22] Trustee Middleton: measurable objectives and developing basically a set of activities to get there.

[0:13:28] Trustee Middleton: So I thought, well, what's the best way to do that?

[0:13:32] Trustee Middleton: Now, I know this is not well understood from the recommendation.

[0:13:37] Trustee Middleton: It could perhaps have been written in more detail, but this is the idea of an office

[0:13:41] Trustee Middleton: of a secretariat of council, which is staffed by an individual who reports through the chair

[0:13:47] Trustee Middleton: and then through the chair to the ceo and works with the organization in that way but it's

[0:13:53] Trustee Middleton: basically shall we say quote unquote a staff member facilitating the work of trust council

[0:13:59] Trustee Middleton: and i think that's particularly important with this group which is in essence as i've said

[0:14:03] Trustee Middleton: not a typical political body people have other roles and and duties in life they're not

[0:14:11] Trustee Middleton: full-time uh um political representatives and so uh resourcing the that group has been it's been

[0:14:22] Trustee Middleton: done by by staff in absence of any you know anybody else stepping forward and and um you

[0:14:28] Trustee Middleton: know staff are certainly doing the best and trying to anticipate what what is it that council wants

[0:14:32] Trustee Middleton: what is the direction they're trying to set and where do they want to go um and i i would say that

[0:14:37] Trustee Middleton: at times that's not been very clearly laid out by by uh by council and that that's been a problem

[0:14:43] Trustee Middleton: for everyone so i i think that role if

[0:14:49] Voice 9: i can interrupt there's uh with respect to the

[0:14:51] Voice 9: secretariat i'm um there was somebody that said that it was a vague recommendation i put a question

[0:14:58] Voice 9: mark beside it in terms of not understanding what it was they were talking about you're the only

[0:15:01] Voice 9: person that came out i think strongly in favor of pursuing that and i'm um i'm thinking that that

[0:15:09] Voice 9: is something that needs to be fleshed out and might be something uh you mentioned um i think

[0:15:16] Voice 9: uh an example of of another group or organization that had that uh using that model and i would i

[0:15:24] Voice 9: would think that's uh some sort of a second step in terms of fleshing that out and getting more

[0:15:30] Voice 9: information so that might be a homework assignment coming up but um it's on the

[0:15:36] Voice 9: list but i'm not sure

[0:15:39] Trustee Middleton: we can

[0:15:39] Voice 9: agree today that that's the highest priority okay

[0:15:42] Trustee Middleton: perfect and that's the approach

[0:15:44] Trustee Middleton: i took was obviously knowing that we get this on the work plan to investigate further i i know

[0:15:49] Trustee Middleton: we're not going to advocate or make a decision on these items today as to as to you know actually

[0:15:56] Trustee Middleton: actually enabling them but I I understand absolutely care so

[0:15:59] Voice 9: that's two for strategic

[0:16:00] Voice 9: planning and one for Secretariat yeah

[0:16:03] Trustee Middleton: those were my top two top priority and actually just as a

[0:16:06] Trustee Middleton: quick aside I noticed in uh trustee Bernardo's uh write-up he actually refers to the position

[0:16:11] Trustee Middleton: as the general counsel so that might be um some people may understand or get a sense of what that

[0:16:19] Trustee Middleton: role is by using by using that terminology but uh and as as you said homework wise there's actually

[0:16:25] Trustee Middleton: uh job descriptions i've found out there for that for this position they're quite detailed and i

[0:16:30] Trustee Middleton: think we would um we would enjoy to have a look at that i mentioned the bc housing one it's got a

[0:16:36] Trustee Middleton: very detailed position okay outline so yeah those are my two top items

[0:16:44] Voice 9: jamie

[0:16:49] Voice 3: yeah i have to be honest here lee and i have been bouncing this stuff back and forth

[0:16:53] Voice 3: a bit here and uh i don't know how better i can reiterate what lee has been

[0:17:00] Voice 3: mentioning about the secretariat being created um and then clearly you've just you know um said what

[0:17:13] Voice 3: you had to say about that um chair getty um number two of the immediate priorities um before your

[0:17:19] Voice 3: corporate plan um that is measurable i think that's you know there's a lot that can be put

[0:17:26] Voice 3: into that and um and i and i i do think that's very important the measurable um aspect of it um

[0:17:36] Voice 3: being uh you know very bright um and aligning with the resources that we have but i think that

[0:17:46] Voice 3: speaks volumes that's short sentence there and i think we can all read into that

[0:17:51] Voice 3: I'll just I'll leave it there and see what anyone else okay

[0:17:55] Voice 9: thank you so Grant this is your big

[0:17:59] Voice 9: opportunity to do your verbal submissions thank

[0:18:04] Voice 4: you can you hear me all right everybody hear me

[0:18:07] Voice 4: all right so I step I step back a little bit and looked at this from my first term my experience

[0:18:14] Voice 4: on the local trust committee on R&B and I looked at governance from from that viewpoint

[0:18:20] Voice 4: point from the people who are on the island's point of view rather than necessarily from the

[0:18:24] Voice 4: trust council the bigger picture I was looking sort of from the bottom up which in my naive way

[0:18:30] Voice 4: when I selected I thought the local trust committees were the most important part of the

[0:18:35] Voice 4: the island's trust but I've since found out it's the trust council that seems to

[0:18:40] Voice 4: dominate a lot of the certainly a lot of the time and conversation so when I look at it from that

[0:18:47] Voice 4: point of view, what I come up with is what the governance, what we need on Hornby to deliver

[0:18:55] Voice 4: better governors is we need the tools to deliver governance. And the tools to me are the official

[0:19:01] Voice 4: community plan, the land use bylaws and the maps that we need. Those are the things that people

[0:19:07] Voice 4: use on Hornby when they make a development application. That's what the local trust

[0:19:12] Voice 4: Committee constantly refers to the planners' use. So I call those the tools of governance.

[0:19:20] Voice 4: And they're in terrible shape, to be blunt. The fact that the OCP does not have much reference

[0:19:30] Voice 4: at all, if any, to the First Nations that surround us. Five overlap on Burnby Island,

[0:19:36] Voice 4: yet there's no maps, there's no data, there's no anything on where the middens and the burial

[0:19:43] Voice 4: grounds and all the potential sites that culturally modify trees all things that reflect and point out

[0:19:50] Voice 4: their uses on this land we talk about reconciliation all the time but i think these are the tools that

[0:19:55] Voice 4: we need on hornby island to really deliver it so i'm not sure whether that would all come out in

[0:20:00] Voice 4: the work plan that you folks are talking about but i think improving those tools is something we can

[0:20:07] Voice 4: do um i think it's something we have to do and i've our advisory planning committee here was

[0:20:12] Voice 4: was very active in doing a referral to this because Alex and I both referred these issues

[0:20:18] Voice 4: to them and they came back. So we've had quite a time in the last two, three years trying to put

[0:20:25] Voice 4: together, get the OCP and the land use bylaws, improve getting newer versions of them, which

[0:20:34] Voice 4: we desperately need. And we've had a terrible time within the trust itself and the processes

[0:20:40] Voice 4: processes and the money and everything the way it flows so um i think um that's part of it i think

[0:20:45] Voice 4: the other thing that i find people find really frustrating is i think one of the key tools of

[0:20:52] Voice 4: governance is um communications and the website uh is incredibly cumbersome to use i mean if you

[0:20:59] Voice 4: say said to yourself what are the three or four things people go to the website for it would be

[0:21:04] Voice 4: what are the agendas what are the meetings what's but there's all it's it's incredibly cumbersome

[0:21:09] Voice 4: to deal with and i think improving that is something that's relatively easy to do

[0:21:13] Voice 4: and it leading back to the some of the earlier points here um maybe this is in the policy review

[0:21:20] Voice 4: as well but every letter that goes from the um goes out on the island from the planning staff

[0:21:26] Voice 4: says we're we're experiencing more than normal volume and it'll there's going to be delays

[0:21:32] Voice 4: well is that delivering good governance if a letter every letter that goes out from us

[0:21:37] Voice 4: says we're experiencing more than greater volume and there's more delays we haven't dealt with that

[0:21:42] Voice 4: issue and i saw this when i was first elected four years ago and i've seen this every year

[0:21:47] Voice 4: on every application since so i find that's not good delivering good governance so that's kind of

[0:21:56] Voice 4: my where i'm coming at this governance issue from and maybe um the way you folks have expressed it

[0:22:03] Voice 4: through the um the corporate plan may be the way to um work on and deliver some of these things so

[0:22:12] Voice 4: i'll just leave it at that for now this is my first meeting and uh so i got a lot to learn

[0:22:18] Voice 4: yet about governance the governance committee and how it works so thank you for we're all in

[0:22:24] Voice 9: that same voice we are

[0:22:28] Voice 4: thank you that

[0:22:30] Voice 9: that kind of sounded like a lot of the material that's in

[0:22:33] Voice 9: the annex one in terms of local planning and the analysis and recommendations from that as well

[0:22:43] Voice 9: all right we don't have a lot of our participants or a lot of our board members

[0:22:50] Voice 9: i guess if i were to summarize kate louise's material she did high low and medium

[0:23:02] Voice 9: um emphasis and um her highs were um the training and the first nations representatives and

[0:23:17] Voice 9: the advocacy and communications um tim peterson did one too didn't he and he did internal external

[0:23:34] Voice 9: external and I'm

[0:23:38] Voice 8: not sure that he prioritized um although

[0:23:46] Voice 9: he said that whatever advocacy whatever

[0:23:48] Voice 9: it's called it's important I have that circled um and then Joe's uh Joe Bernardo's um governance I

[0:23:59] Voice 9: got it late yesterday and started reading it it basically ruined my good night's sleep I kept

[0:24:04] Voice 9: tossing and turning thinking about all the points that he had raised um and uh

[0:24:11] Voice 8: uh anybody else i'm sorry peter you

[0:24:19] Voice 9: got your hand

[0:24:20] Voice 8: up i wasn't

[0:24:22] Trustee Luckham: sure whether i was intentionally being

[0:24:24] Trustee Luckham: left out there the top priorities um um i just thought you'd get around to me eventually um

[0:24:32] Trustee Luckham: you're

[0:24:34] Voice 9: patient thank you

[0:24:35] Trustee Luckham: yeah um so i wasn't anticipating that we would move to top priorities

[0:24:42] Trustee Luckham: right away. So I just quickly scanned my own submission and quickly indeed, what a great

[0:24:47] Trustee Luckham: exercise, get the nuggets and skip all the rest. So I've kind of done that, but I just want to

[0:24:54] Trustee Luckham: start off by reflecting on one. Oh, I'm so glad to see Tim Peterson connecting because that's great

[0:25:00] Trustee Luckham: because I am concerned about not having all members present. These are such important

[0:25:07] Trustee Luckham: conversations at the outset of this process, the kernel of the work that we're doing.

[0:25:12] Trustee Luckham: to set the stage for future conversations

[0:25:14] Trustee Luckham: that we need to be sure that everybody's attending.

[0:25:17] Trustee Luckham: And so I don't, I came a minute late there,

[0:25:20] Trustee Luckham: so I don't know if you had regrets or apologies

[0:25:21] Trustee Luckham: or indications of delay.

[0:25:24] Trustee Luckham: So I'm so glad to see Trustee Peterson here

[0:25:26] Trustee Luckham: and I'm hoping that Kate Louise,

[0:25:27] Trustee Luckham: look at that Trustee Bernardo

[0:25:29] Trustee Luckham: and maybe they just had a different start time

[0:25:31] Trustee Luckham: than the rest of us.

[0:25:32] Trustee Luckham: So that's great.

[0:25:33] Trustee Luckham: I'm not gonna belabor that too much.

[0:25:36] Trustee Luckham: So I'm just gonna go to my notes

[0:25:37] Trustee Luckham: so that I quickly scribbled about top priority.

[0:25:40] Trustee Luckham: And I think that there's a couple of things, and maybe I'm resisting the notion of top priorities right at this particular moment in time, but in having read all of the materials, and indeed, thank you, Judy, a lot of reading, and most of them I had to read more than once to get the first absorption, and then kind of that reactionary mode of what I've seen, and then actually going through each to look for the nuggets.

[0:26:07] Trustee Luckham: Maybe that's my key word for today, is looking for nuggets.

[0:26:10] Trustee Luckham: And so the diversity is significant.

[0:26:13] Trustee Luckham: But also the commonality of some of the priority main themes is also fairly obvious.

[0:26:20] Trustee Luckham: And I have actually comments about each of the members' submissions.

[0:26:25] Trustee Luckham: And just quickly, if Grant could put what he said in writing, that would help create

[0:26:34] Trustee Luckham: my own library and ideally the library of others and the and thought pieces for us to build on

[0:26:40] Trustee Luckham: because it's difficult to take an oral submission in and analyze it a little bit so that would be

[0:26:46] Trustee Luckham: helpful if that could be happening but um so it's funny you know you make quick notes and they don't

[0:26:56] Trustee Luckham: always make sense when you go to read them but certainly there's opportunity for improvements

[0:27:00] Trustee Luckham: in in all of this but also i recognize that anything that we think about or decide or

[0:27:07] Trustee Luckham: direction that we need to take we ultimately actually need to get some endorsement somewhere

[0:27:12] Trustee Luckham: along the way from council that this is the direction that um council wishes us to go so

[0:27:17] Trustee Luckham: want to always keep that in mind especially if we're talking about top priorities um and then

[0:27:23] Trustee Luckham: i just want to reflect on whatever we do in this committee i sort of think and would like to get a

[0:27:28] Trustee Luckham: confirmation that we also are doing this in parallel with the continuity of business and

[0:27:36] Trustee Luckham: in effect strategic planning and budgeting and all these other things need to go on and where

[0:27:40] Trustee Luckham: there's opportunity for advice or encouragement to move in a different direction I think that

[0:27:49] Trustee Luckham: and again true counsel would be really important but just recognize that although we might be

[0:27:56] Trustee Luckham: you're talking about top priorities and indeed secretariats and business plans and all that

[0:28:00] Trustee Luckham: kind of stuff. Obviously, business needs to continue on while this works. So I like to,

[0:28:06] Trustee Luckham: somebody said in one of the things about this committee to lead by a good governance process.

[0:28:14] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, in many respects, this is it. The opportunity exists for us to do an experiment

[0:28:20] Trustee Luckham: here to determine how that works within a committee to achieve the objectives. And somebody

[0:28:26] Trustee Luckham: said about our own strategic plan internally to do that. So I think that indeed that strategic

[0:28:32] Trustee Luckham: plan would include the priorities, et cetera. So leading the process is an example. And then I

[0:28:38] Trustee Luckham: can't help but think that, and again, that's my resistance to making top priorities and embracing

[0:28:46] Trustee Luckham: embracing the whole diversity and all that sort of stuff.

[0:28:49] Trustee Luckham: Communication is really important out amongst ourselves

[0:28:53] Trustee Luckham: as well as to council and the broader community

[0:28:57] Trustee Luckham: just as a general course.

[0:28:58] Trustee Luckham: Although our focus needs to be reflecting inside

[0:29:01] Trustee Luckham: more so than reflecting outside.

[0:29:03] Trustee Luckham: But obviously people are watching,

[0:29:05] Trustee Luckham: we've got people in the audience today.

[0:29:06] Trustee Luckham: The idea which was raised a number of times was consensus.

[0:29:13] Trustee Luckham: consensus. And in order to have consensus to support the model of governance that we're

[0:29:21] Trustee Luckham: wanting to encourage, I think there's just so much more discussion. What I've heard here already

[0:29:25] Trustee Luckham: on topics that are drilling down, I think a little too deep initially for this kind of a

[0:29:30] Trustee Luckham: conversation. I might be doing exactly the same. I really think the four or five meetings a year

[0:29:35] Trustee Luckham: is going to be inadequate and that indeed we need to look at some kind of workshopping opportunity

[0:29:40] Trustee Luckham: to actually have the opportunity to drill into some of these topics to build that consensus to perhaps not so much narrow the diversity,

[0:29:48] Trustee Luckham: but agree on the things that we can agree on and have more conversation about the other ones.

[0:29:53] Trustee Luckham: We also need to recognize in our work of evolving governance and sort of

[0:30:00] Trustee Luckham: was reflecting on this when I was reading the submissions of others and my own submission,

[0:30:03] Trustee Luckham: in fact, is recognizing the capacity of the organization, the resources we have,

[0:30:08] Trustee Luckham: and the limitations that exist within the structure of the governance model that we

[0:30:12] Trustee Luckham: presently work under. And we can't just go off and do stuff that is not necessarily supported

[0:30:19] Trustee Luckham: in the local government context. And again, in many respects, I read things in the submissions

[0:30:29] Trustee Luckham: from each of you that is not compatible or not necessarily the facts.

[0:30:39] Trustee Luckham: I'm struggling with how to present that.

[0:30:41] Trustee Luckham: But I think we need to seize the narrative to bring the context of the governance report

[0:30:46] Trustee Luckham: back into a reality that is within the scope of the work that we do and how we do it.

[0:30:52] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, the Secretariat is a good one that needs to be discussed further in order

[0:30:56] Trustee Luckham: to come to a better understanding of what that means.

[0:30:59] Trustee Luckham: and there's a number of others like ex officio executive committee members and the like like

[0:31:04] Trustee Luckham: that like those things need to be that's a false narrative and we need to bring that back into

[0:31:09] Trustee Luckham: scope that particular one others may be debatable so and indeed in terms of our own work and top

[0:31:15] Trustee Luckham: priorities we need to consider what's in scope and what's out of scope in order to move that forward

[0:31:20] Trustee Luckham: and that's a strategic planning item and then you know the other thing that's really important here

[0:31:26] Trustee Luckham: um and it's part of the narrative that's out there and certainly people are saying let's bring the

[0:31:32] Trustee Luckham: trust back into the trust but you know something we need to trust each other we need to respect

[0:31:38] Trustee Luckham: each other and um and figure out a way to talk through the conversations we have differences

[0:31:44] Trustee Luckham: of opinion on in order to build consensus to uh support each other in a respective dialogue so

[0:31:51] Trustee Luckham: So trust across the board amongst trustees, staff level, and with the public is all important.

[0:31:58] Trustee Luckham: But if we're modeling a good governance, we need to build that respect and trust back in.

[0:32:05] Voice 9: Can I interrupt for a second?

[0:32:08] Voice 9: I think that we can each go through the report and our reactions to it.

[0:32:14] Voice 9: And I think we can go through and have all sorts of discussions on each of these points.

[0:32:20] Voice 9: I wanted to try, and we will have time for that, I hope, but I wanted to try and see if there was any consensus in terms of what the main priorities would be in terms of starting off the work of the committee in terms of my read, if I can, without setting it up too much, is that I think we're all agreed on the strategic planning as a priority.

[0:32:48] Voice 9: and a lot of this other stuff is our details that we're going to have to work through

[0:32:53] Voice 9: and have detailed discussions about as we go through that so that's that's my end goal

[0:33:02] Voice 9: and I've you know just I wanted us all to come to that but I think that

[0:33:10] Voice 9: I want to go back to you know of all these 15 recommendations is there stuff that's left out

[0:33:18] Voice 9: and i think laura brought that up in one of her analysis and of that you know how do we

[0:33:25] Voice 9: prioritize that and what do we spend our time on because it's fairly limited um grant i see that

[0:33:31] Voice 9: you've got your hand up and peter i've interrupted you so carry on finish

[0:33:35] Trustee Luckham: very quickly now i'm right

[0:33:37] Trustee Luckham: at the end so the recommendation the priority for recommendations um is uh communication

[0:33:43] Trustee Luckham: communication absolutely across the board um but the two that i picked out as the top priorities

[0:33:49] Trustee Luckham: is the committee structure how we're going to make committees better whether we need more or less

[0:33:54] Trustee Luckham: how that all works so committees is number one and the number two and they're not necessarily

[0:33:59] Trustee Luckham: in order is number 11 which is the corporate plan and strategic planning and if we we need to do

[0:34:06] Trustee Luckham: that better and we can achieve amazing things so that's the end of my thing uh on that topic and

[0:34:13] Trustee Luckham: look forward to deeper conversations with all of you thank

[0:34:16] Voice 9: you you've got to your top two excellent

[0:34:20] Voice 9: grant i

[0:34:22] Voice 4: just want to say uh i'll write out my brief there and send it around everybody

[0:34:28] Voice 4: excellent thank

[0:34:29] Voice 9: you all right tim the

[0:34:33] Voice 16: late and great

[0:34:35] Voice 16: Good morning, everyone. I'm traveling by car today, and so I was listening to the first part of the meeting on the phone, and I'm going to join with the computer as long as I can.

[0:34:49] Voice 16: I'm likely to experience some difficulty with my connection as I travel down the highway, so just know that that's the reality of my connection today.

[0:35:04] Voice 16: Do

[0:35:04] Voice 9: you want to go off video? Would that help?

[0:35:07] Voice 16: Well, it's just what it's going to be is I've got I'm accessing the Internet by a mobile stick.

[0:35:13] Voice 16: And I've noticed that these laptops don't have a terribly long battery life.

[0:35:19] Voice 16: So I'll probably have to switch to the phone again at any rate.

[0:35:24] Voice 16: so uh just to uh first of all to speak to some of what i've heard um in terms of this

[0:35:35] Voice 16: secretariat function uh that needs to be uh that needs to be researched and um uh really fleshed

[0:35:48] Voice 16: out in a way that uh makes it clear to certainly all of us on this committee and uh and then uh to

[0:35:55] Voice 16: to trust council, what the intended functions are

[0:35:59] Voice 16: and how we might implement

[0:36:00] Voice 16: if members feel that that's priority.

[0:36:05] Voice 16: I agree that communications are vital,

[0:36:08] Voice 16: both amongst us with the committee and trust council,

[0:36:15] Voice 16: and in a broader sense, trust council committees,

[0:36:19] Voice 16: local trust committees and the public.

[0:36:21] Voice 16: look in terms of definitely on board that the strategic planning aligning with our budgetary

[0:36:34] Voice 16: goals is I feel it's one of the most important aspects of the recommendations that's actionable

[0:36:45] Voice 16: within the organization but there's going to be some serious work to get there when we talk about

[0:36:55] Voice 16: metrics or measurable outcomes we're we're going to have to do some serious work to to figure out

[0:37:03] Voice 16: how we're going to make those measurements and and assess them that's not something that's in

[0:37:10] Voice 16: place at this point so we're we're we're going to have a lot of work around just the measurability

[0:37:18] Voice 16: aspect as well as figuring out how we're going to align the long-term planning with with our

[0:37:30] Voice 16: financial our financial aspects as well so just want to say there's a lot of interesting things

[0:37:42] Voice 16: in all of your submissions had a chance to read through them all I anticipate I'll be reading

[0:37:49] Voice 16: through them all uh several times again um and uh i look forward to continuing the work

[0:37:57] Voice 16: with this committee and uh and uh seeing how we are going to get to making some priorities and

[0:38:04] Voice 16: then making some progress on on those priorities so thank you and again i'll

[0:38:11] Voice 16: apologize if i drop

[0:38:12] Voice 16: out it's uh i may be able to listen when i may not be able to participate but i'm gonna

[0:38:17] Voice 16: to do my best to be in the meeting as much as possible today thanks

[0:38:21] Voice 9: joe so i started off the

[0:38:26] Voice 9: um the meeting asking people what um out of all of these 15 recommendations um if there were one

[0:38:34] Voice 9: or two that they would um anything that they would add and one or two that they would prioritize

[0:38:40] Voice 9: out of all of these so i wanted to start there in terms of trying to narrow it down and

[0:38:44] Voice 9: then flesh it out sure

[0:38:47] Trustee Bernardo: thank you and apologies everybody for my um coming into the meeting late

[0:38:53] Trustee Bernardo: i was uh taken up with another matter uh sorry about that uh my view of it is um

[0:39:02] Trustee Bernardo: a little different i guess it's that i i think we need to be very um judicious about what we take

[0:39:11] Trustee Bernardo: out of the report and what we set aside as I tried to explain in the email when I circulated my

[0:39:20] Trustee Bernardo: comments there's good things in that report there's also confusing things and I think it is

[0:39:29] Trustee Bernardo: important to recognize the nature of the methodology so that we know how we can think

[0:39:37] Trustee Bernardo: about the report and how we weigh what's in there and i won't repeat the things that i said in my

[0:39:43] Trustee Bernardo: comments but um that's all by way of preamble to say i i really something i said in my that email

[0:39:50] Trustee Bernardo: i sent out yesterday i really don't think we should uh let ourselves get trapped into the

[0:39:56] Trustee Bernardo: idea that somehow we've we're compelled to pick and choose among these 15 recommendations

[0:40:02] Trustee Bernardo: i don't think any of like there are recommendations that i think that are useful but i think they're

[0:40:07] Trustee Bernardo: useful because I've analyzed my own way to there. The report doesn't really explain or connect

[0:40:15] Trustee Bernardo: those recommendations in a very clear way. So I think it's really up to us to determine

[0:40:20] Trustee Bernardo: what it is that we need to get done using the findings as a guide. So, and the recommendations

[0:40:29] Trustee Bernardo: are, you know, we're not tied to those things. It's up to us to decide what's going on now with

[0:40:33] Trustee Bernardo: all that preamble yeah there are a few things that i think are priorities and i tried to explain

[0:40:38] Trustee Bernardo: in my comments what i thought they were the first one is um i agree with what the report says which

[0:40:46] Trustee Bernardo: is much of the confusion and the uh ineffectiveness and it really is personified by the uh the

[0:40:56] Trustee Bernardo: difficulties of trust policy statement to reach any kind of conclusion uh it really does come down

[0:41:02] Trustee Bernardo: to that there is a division over how to understand what the mandate is that's the metal we have to

[0:41:09] Trustee Bernardo: grasp and you know if we're going to talk about oh we got to do this we got to do that you know

[0:41:13] Trustee Bernardo: we got to have a communication strategy we need to work on strategic planning all those things

[0:41:18] Trustee Bernardo: are all true uh and strategic planning is definitely one of those things that is like

[0:41:24] Trustee Bernardo: it's quite evident that um the absence of a well thought out strategic planning process

[0:41:30] Trustee Bernardo: is holding us back but we do have to do this initial work and you know we don't necessarily

[0:41:36] Trustee Bernardo: have to do it in sequence but we have to start directing attention in this process I think

[0:41:42] Trustee Bernardo: urgently to interpreting this section three of the the trust act because eventually that is

[0:41:48] Trustee Bernardo: what should be driving the policy statement and just as it's driving the policy statements that

[0:41:52] Trustee Bernardo: interpretation should be driving our judgment in strategic planning matters and along those lines

[0:41:59] Trustee Bernardo: i think there's some work we can do about that like right away um there have to be over these

[0:42:07] Trustee Bernardo: many years of the islands trust activity uh in the library there have to be uh some legal opinions

[0:42:13] Trustee Bernardo: that address what the meaning of section three actually is and i would be grateful if staff could

[0:42:20] Trustee Bernardo: collate all of those things just every one of those opinions no matter how old they are

[0:42:26] Trustee Bernardo: stack them up and uh i would you know if other people want to read them that's great but i

[0:42:31] Trustee Bernardo: certainly want to read them i want to i just i don't know what the proper interpretation is i've

[0:42:35] Trustee Bernardo: got some guesses from basic principles but you know if we've paid big money to people to think

[0:42:40] Trustee Bernardo: about these things and they're experts in the area let's have a look at it so that's an easy

[0:42:45] Trustee Bernardo: start so i'd appreciate having those um legal opinions dug out of the library and provided to

[0:42:51] Trustee Bernardo: us uh ideally sometime next week i mean they're just documents that are filed someplace so that's

[0:42:57] Trustee Bernardo: one thing uh the other thing is i think we need to apply or i would like us to see apply some

[0:43:03] Trustee Bernardo: thinking into key policies that we think need to be revised in order to make these processes

[0:43:11] Trustee Bernardo: more effective the meeting process jumps out as one that we need to like really think hard about

[0:43:19] Trustee Bernardo: uh so that's one thing i think we need to do and then the third thing is yeah i think we

[0:43:26] Trustee Bernardo: um we need to be careful here and then like this you can only bite off so much at any given time

[0:43:35] Trustee Bernardo: to be able to do it effectively there's there's a lot of issues that we could sort of attempt to

[0:43:44] Trustee Bernardo: address and get none of them done because it's you know we're trying to you know juggle too many

[0:43:50] Trustee Bernardo: balls at once so i'd be cautious about like over committing ourselves uh but uh i do think the

[0:43:59] Trustee Bernardo: planning component is one of those things that can't wait until you know we've got everything

[0:44:05] Trustee Bernardo: all nicely done some things inevitably we're going to have to deal with simultaneously

[0:44:10] Trustee Bernardo: so i think we do have to get the planning function improved or start working on that

[0:44:14] Trustee Bernardo: at the same time that we're looking at development proper interpretation that could be a guiding

[0:44:20] Trustee Bernardo: uh light for the organization and in respect of that uh uh the metrics issue that tim raised

[0:44:28] Trustee Bernardo: i don't think we need to worry too much about what they are because um in any given project

[0:44:37] Trustee Bernardo: it's the project that's going to dictate what the metrics are uh you know it's it's what the

[0:44:45] Trustee Bernardo: the big issue is i think in planning uh and this does tie into the interpretation aspect

[0:44:52] Trustee Bernardo: is determining what are the outcomes

[0:44:55] Trustee Bernardo: that we want to focus on.

[0:44:57] Trustee Bernardo: There's any number of outcomes that we could decide on

[0:45:00] Trustee Bernardo: that are consistent with the trust mandate,

[0:45:05] Trustee Bernardo: but strategic planning means going through those outcomes,

[0:45:08] Trustee Bernardo: selecting the ones, and it's an exercise

[0:45:14] Trustee Bernardo: where the big assumption going in

[0:45:16] Trustee Bernardo: is you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[0:45:18] Trustee Bernardo: Some things that are valuable will not get done

[0:45:22] Trustee Bernardo: because there's other things that are valuable

[0:45:25] Trustee Bernardo: that should get done and should take priority.

[0:45:28] Trustee Bernardo: And again, that's a thing that we have to exercise

[0:45:31] Trustee Bernardo: some decisiveness about.

[0:45:33] Trustee Bernardo: So it really comes down to selecting the outcomes,

[0:45:37] Trustee Bernardo: the things that we want to get done,

[0:45:40] Trustee Bernardo: and then the metrics follow from that.

[0:45:46] Voice 8: I could go on.

[0:45:47] Voice 8: There's lots of other things to say about this,

[0:45:48] Voice 8: but that's probably enough for now.

[0:45:50] Voice 8: Thanks.

[0:45:55] Voice 8: Have I left anybody else out?

[0:46:02] Voice 8: Russ, anything you want to add?

[0:46:09] Voice 8: Thank you, Madam Chair.

[0:46:13] Voice 10: Yeah, just of service to the committee, I mean, really, I could offer a couple of comments.

[0:46:19] Voice 10: We've been thinking about this for a good solid year, if not more.

[0:46:24] Voice 10: You know, just off the top, in terms, I think, the mandate and the understanding of the mandate,

[0:46:32] Voice 10: no matter what the electoral the election process delivers such that there's the ability for people

[0:46:38] Voice 10: to have a common understanding of that i think is a significant point and indeed we have fairly

[0:46:43] Voice 10: fresh legal opinions on that matter as well as some writing that was done um a year and a half

[0:46:50] Voice 10: ago two years ago setting up the policy statement and i think that would be fantastic background

[0:46:55] Voice 10: background information, if that's a conversation that you want to incubate for Trust Council

[0:47:00] Voice 10: itself in looking at your governance work, I think that this body needs to have a different

[0:47:09] Voice 10: timeframe than the regular meetings, agendas, meetings, agendas flow of Trust Council.

[0:47:15] Voice 10: You are the wise council on behalf of Trust Council, so you can have your own rhythm that

[0:47:21] Voice 10: you set that delivers the things you need. That being said, I think that, you know, the staff,

[0:47:28] Voice 10: as it's currently configured, can assist you in dealing with things that irritate you or are not

[0:47:34] Voice 10: working now, and they could be relatively shortly achieved. You could look at your meetings and your

[0:47:40] Voice 10: agendas and how Trust Council operates and how you're decision making and how much time you get

[0:47:45] Voice 10: for conversation. So I think you could make some, have some thoughts around that. In terms of

[0:47:51] Voice 10: strategic planning i don't think you have to arrive at a strategic plan but fairly soon you

[0:47:56] Voice 10: have to turn your minds to that because time marches on and budgets march on that you're not

[0:48:01] Voice 10: compelled to have a strategic plan um you can um but you have to i think you would it would be do

[0:48:09] Voice 10: you well to consider it what are the constituent elements of corporate planning and starting to put

[0:48:14] Voice 10: those pieces in place um and then the last consideration is um having read the document

[0:48:21] Voice 10: now many many times um arguably the appendix is the most detailed and analyzed element

[0:48:29] Voice 10: of of the document and when i step back and i look at you know the products of the island's

[0:48:34] Voice 10: trust 75 of it is land use planning and most of that documents sort of goes to high politics

[0:48:40] Voice 10: which is you know personal fine but um much like um grant was saying earlier so much of what we do

[0:48:50] Voice 10: is and the citizens end up with is reflected in that last appendix and and how we deliver the

[0:48:56] Voice 10: service and there isn't a lot of discussion around local trust committee governance

[0:49:02] Voice 10: and and how that could be looked at in some way to deliver a better product on behalf of the

[0:49:07] Voice 10: Allen's trust so maybe that's a thought that gets tied into the discussion around the appendix and

[0:49:14] Voice 10: how the land use planning function operates so those are just some initial comments for you

[0:49:21] Voice 9: coming out of that if I may I see Peter and Joe's hand up again but is it possible for the staff to

[0:49:28] Voice 9: pull together like a reference library for us in terms of all of the material that may or may not

[0:49:36] Voice 9: be something we want to refer to and look at rather than bits and pieces somebody go through

[0:49:41] Voice 9: it methodically and serve you know come up with something david answering

[0:49:46] Voice 9: that or yes david can

[0:49:48] Voice 10: answer that question thanks

[0:49:51] Voice 2: yeah thank you tricia uh yes definitely we can provide that information

[0:49:56] Voice 2: we do have a database of all our legal opinions so it would take a little bit of time to go through

[0:50:03] Voice 2: because the way the database is set up, it's not the easiest to search, but we can certainly get

[0:50:10] Voice 2: that information. I would say, though, that all that information is confidential, so we would not

[0:50:16] Voice 2: be providing it in an open meeting. So we could provide it to you by email with a password-protected

[0:50:22] Voice 2: document that you can look at as long as you don't share it. That's totally fine. Or the other

[0:50:28] Voice 2: alternatives if we bring it to an in-camera meeting of the committee so that you can then

[0:50:33] Voice 2: have a discussion about it so that's those are the options i would ask that you do it by resolution

[0:50:39] Voice 2: of the committee if you're asking us to provide that information so that we have a record and we're

[0:50:45] Voice 2: getting a specific idea of what you're asking us to do thank you i

[0:50:53] Voice 11: think that's a very uh man chair

[0:50:54] Voice 10: that's i think that's a very good idea and it gives it begins to give the committee some reference

[0:51:00] Voice 10: points to to operate from so that we could certainly pull together both in

[0:51:08] Voice 10: camera and out of camera relative material that would be assistive to you

[0:51:12] Voice 10: that would be iterative and all right yes can

[0:51:16] Voice 9: we put that down as something on

[0:51:19] Voice 9: the work plan in terms of figuring out just how extensive it is how much staff

[0:51:23] Voice 9: time is required and how much of it is in camera and confidential well if you

[0:51:29] Voice 10: ask us to do it we'll just do it and we'll come back and and uh i think the staff time i wouldn't

[0:51:34] Voice 10: consider myself too much about that we'll we'll make that happen all right um and we could get

[0:51:39] Voice 10: we could you know in some reasonable time frame in the next uh um little bit we would begin to

[0:51:44] Voice 10: put that together for you all right yeah your

[0:51:46] Voice 9: mission if you accept it is to pull that together

[0:51:50] Voice 9: and if you can help um somebody uh craft a resolution that would be helpful for you that

[0:51:55] Voice 9: that would help as well.

[0:51:56] Voice 9: Peter.

[0:51:58] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I was just gonna repeat what you just said there

[0:52:01] Trustee Luckham: or say what you just said,

[0:52:03] Trustee Luckham: that Ross is fishing for a motion with specific direction

[0:52:07] Trustee Luckham: to get some specific outcome.

[0:52:09] Trustee Luckham: And it's not, I forget the language you just used there.

[0:52:13] Trustee Luckham: It's not necessarily a challenge,

[0:52:14] Trustee Luckham: but the direction that's provided by the committee,

[0:52:16] Trustee Luckham: they will fulfill that.

[0:52:17] Trustee Luckham: And I'm ever grateful for that.

[0:52:19] Trustee Luckham: Just so a motion would be good

[0:52:21] Trustee Luckham: and probably good for somebody else on the committee

[0:52:25] Trustee Luckham: need to do that rather than myself because i actually think i'm ex officio on this committee

[0:52:28] Trustee Luckham: um i just wanted to recognize before we moved along too far in the absence of kate louise on

[0:52:35] Trustee Luckham: the on the committee here not having a chance to reflect i just i just think there's three

[0:52:40] Trustee Luckham: there's three things that really stood out for me in her comments was one reflecting on the state

[0:52:45] Trustee Luckham: of the trust during a pandemic and um and then also out of the thinking out of the box ideas

[0:52:52] Trustee Luckham: is. I think that's important. And then also reflecting upon how local government generally

[0:52:58] Trustee Luckham: in land use planning authorities that we are, what are the similarities in terms of problems

[0:53:06] Trustee Luckham: and where are there some solutions that might be there? But just measure ourselves to some extent

[0:53:14] Trustee Luckham: against what others are doing better or worse than we are and reflect on that as what's

[0:53:21] Trustee Luckham: achievable yeah there's kate louise oh so there we go you

[0:53:26] Voice 5: mentioned her name and she pops hey

[0:53:27] Trustee Luckham: i didn't need to try and paraphrase her great uh comments there but kate louise just so you know i

[0:53:34] Trustee Luckham: thought that some of your stuff was really great that you brought forward and i appreciate your

[0:53:38] Trustee Luckham: thinking go ahead um

[0:53:41] Voice 9: so joe your hand is up and um kate louise has joined us so could i maybe deal

[0:53:48] Voice 9: with um kate louise and get her two top priorities so that we're all um finish the preliminaries okay

[0:53:56] Voice 9: um kate louise i'd started the meeting asking people if they went through uh the 15

[0:54:02] Voice 9: recommendations on the the um the report and anything that they thought was left out if uh

[0:54:09] Voice 9: what their priorities would be from that list um

[0:54:14] Voice 13: thank you and my apologies i got the time wrong

[0:54:17] Voice 13: so I was panicking a bit there. Really, I think we're going to be struggling and meandering around

[0:54:25] Voice 13: until we get our vision right, and actually pay attention to it and go with it. And even though

[0:54:32] Voice 13: it might not be perfect, get the vision, get the policy statement, and move forward. And then a lot

[0:54:39] Voice 13: of the structural issues can be pinned to how that structure is created. So that's one of the

[0:54:45] Voice 13: priorities that i got out of it and also from the comments that i read from from um the different

[0:54:52] Voice 13: participants um i and also those ocps i can't understate how important it is to consolidate

[0:55:04] Voice 13: as much as possible um a lot of what i understood this uh governance report came out of was

[0:55:11] Voice 13: is inefficiencies and this charge of inefficiencies to particularly the planning department.

[0:55:20] Voice 13: When I'm working at the regional district level, we're dealing with seven OCPs and the planning

[0:55:26] Voice 13: department is hard and fast saying that's way too much. It's way too cumbersome. We have to

[0:55:32] Voice 13: break it down. And I'm looking at them and going, we've got 21 on the Islands Trust area and the

[0:55:38] Voice 13: the time that it takes just to go through that is incredible so 14 absolute maximum if we can

[0:55:46] Voice 13: get it lower that would even be better so those are my

[0:55:48] Voice 8: priorities thank you joe thank you sorry

[0:55:59] Voice 8: having trouble unmuting there uh first

[0:56:02] Trustee Bernardo: thing i wanted to say is i wanted to um jump off a comment

[0:56:06] Trustee Bernardo: that the ceo made relating to land use planning and bring it back to the need to do strategic

[0:56:13] Trustee Bernardo: planning. One of the observations in the report, and it's not original with the report, other

[0:56:19] Trustee Bernardo: previous reports have made the same observation, which is irrespective of how much emphasis

[0:56:28] Trustee Bernardo: planning should play in terms of the balance of the work that we do relative to other things,

[0:56:37] Trustee Bernardo: it's pretty clear that it's a core function. In fact, we have choices about things that we can do,

[0:56:43] Trustee Bernardo: elective things projects which we do do and then we have our kind of specialized OCP bylaw work

[0:56:50] Trustee Bernardo: which intersects with the planning and that's also a specialized project stuff but historically

[0:56:56] Trustee Bernardo: and even now it appears that just the routine day-to-day work of the planning department

[0:57:03] Trustee Bernardo: isn't efficient things take a long time because staff's over committed and I want to the thing

[0:57:12] Trustee Bernardo: thing about that is there is an answer to that and it goes back to the strategic planning function

[0:57:18] Trustee Bernardo: which is strategic planning isn't just about the bright new shiny thing that you're going to do

[0:57:23] Trustee Bernardo: and you're going to execute it it's about the plain vanilla boring stuff that trustees don't

[0:57:31] Trustee Bernardo: really have anything to do with and don't particularly get too involved unless it comes

[0:57:35] Trustee Bernardo: before them as a variance application or an approval but that's the day-to-day work of the

[0:57:39] Trustee Bernardo: staff in terms on the planning side, dealing with permitting, that kind of stuff. And a strategic

[0:57:47] Trustee Bernardo: plan is going to, at a minimum, has to establish priorities at that level to say, how much are we

[0:57:58] Trustee Bernardo: going to put this as a priority versus other things? And as I said before, that means that

[0:58:02] Trustee Bernardo: some of the things that you think are precious and valuable are just going to have to either

[0:58:06] Trustee Bernardo: either wait or not get done at all, so that you can redirect a certain amount of your energy back

[0:58:10] Trustee Bernardo: into the plain vanilla day-to-day stuff that actually amounts to the service that we're

[0:58:16] Trustee Bernardo: actually supposed to be delivering to the public. So that's just another comment about

[0:58:25] Trustee Bernardo: the urgency of needing to have a proper strategic planning function, but that the strategic planning

[0:58:29] Trustee Bernardo: function is not just about, you know, nice new things. It's about how do we manage

[0:58:37] Trustee Bernardo: the plain vanilla stuff that we're supposed to be doing uh following up on david's comment about a

[0:58:44] Trustee Bernardo: resolution uh i've got one just with respect to these legal opinions you know if that's what he

[0:58:51] Trustee Bernardo: needs and i appreciate and i appreciate david's comment that we need to be very mindful that

[0:58:57] Trustee Bernardo: this material is subject to solicitor and client privilege and it's incumbent on us to keep these

[0:59:03] Trustee Bernardo: things confidential and moreover when we discuss it i do think that's going to have to be any time

[0:59:09] Trustee Bernardo: or portion of the meeting because we'll get into that stuff but i don't think it's feasible or

[0:59:16] Trustee Bernardo: useful to have that material provided to us only within the framework of a meeting because we need

[0:59:21] Trustee Bernardo: time to read it digest it and think about it especially if we're looking at 40 years worth

[0:59:25] Trustee Bernardo: of legal opinions on a specific topic so my motion is this i move that staff provide uh

[0:59:33] Trustee Bernardo: Well, before I say that, can I have a time period that staff thinks is reasonable for

[0:59:39] Trustee Bernardo: the request?

[0:59:42] Voice 11: David, I'll take that question.

[0:59:44] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, go ahead.

[0:59:44] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:59:45] Voice 10: And, you know, I'd say within a couple of weeks we could get something to you.

[0:59:50] Voice 2: Okay.

[0:59:51] Voice 2: I never

[0:59:52] Voice 2: made it through the chair, Trustee Bernardo, just for the format of the resolution,

[0:59:57] Voice 2: I did throw one in the chat.

[1:00:00] Voice 2: could just use the start of that so indicate the name of the committee and then the request

[1:00:04] Voice 2: to staff that'd be great thanks um

[1:00:07] Trustee Bernardo: i don't have anything up here but um some suggested wording

[1:00:12] Voice 9: move that the governance committee requests staff to compile legal opinions and reports

[1:00:16] Voice 9: dealing with interpretation of the object of the islands trust provide them to the governance

[1:00:20] Voice 9: committee uh

[1:00:22] Trustee Bernardo: yes uh i i would amend that to say and provide them to the members of

[1:00:29] Trustee Bernardo: well hang on that the let me just uh think out loud here i move that the governance committee

[1:00:34] Trustee Bernardo: requests staff to compile legal opinions dealing with interpretation of section

[1:00:42] Voice 8: three of the

[1:00:43] Voice 8: islands trust act uh no dealing with the interpretation of section three who's got

[1:01:14] Voice 8: that cursor right we can be patient yeah uh we need an article in front of interpretation with

[1:01:28] Voice 8: without interpretation, section three of the Islands Trust Act, and provide them to the

[1:01:45] Voice 8: members of the governance committee on a confidential basis by February 24,

[1:02:08] Voice 8: comma, and that the members of the governance committee are required to hold such opinions

[1:02:20] Voice 8: opinions and their contents, comma, which are subject to solicitor and client privilege,

[1:02:55] Voice 8: comma, strictly confidential. And I think it makes terrific sense what David had mentioned

[1:03:15] Voice 8: before that have these opinions provided to us on a password protected basis. That's the motion.

[1:03:28] Voice 8: Any seconder? Laura? Any discussion? Peter, your hand is up. Is it discussion on this?

[1:03:41] Voice 8: um not having any um

[1:03:55] Voice 9: discussion um seconder was laura then um anybody opposed to this

[1:04:06] Voice 9: might

[1:04:07] Voice 8: be easier to count all those in favor hands going up okay it looks

[1:04:17] Voice 9: like it's unanimous

[1:04:18] Voice 9: thank you madam

[1:04:21] Voice 10: chair yes

[1:04:22] Voice 9: as

[1:04:23] Voice 10: a follow um some latitude to provide other reports that are not

[1:04:29] Voice 10: necessarily in camera and to establish sort of a a library or um intellectual working space for the

[1:04:39] Voice 10: committee um that might follow along with the the bernardo motion um but provide some alternative

[1:04:46] Voice 10: materials as well yes

[1:04:48] Voice 9: i i think that would be very helpful um susan gates has sent me a copy of an

[1:04:53] Voice 9: article that she wrote after the march 22 meeting when the consultants gave an oral report to the

[1:04:59] Voice 9: council and apparently there is a recording of that um and i haven't had time to go through it

[1:05:05] Voice 9: but i'm um i'm told uh through um kate louise and susan that that is um that was much more helpful

[1:05:14] Voice 9: than the actual written report um so i think something like that would be helpful too um and

[1:05:21] Voice 9: some of these other documents that we've got uh with respect to open and close meetings um we

[1:05:26] Voice 9: we could be sharing that possibly. Okay. Laura, your hand is up.

[1:05:32] Trustee Patrick: Yeah. I just thought it might be important to talk about now is my understanding is we are,

[1:05:39] Trustee Patrick: we are not defining what the object is. We're, we're looking at the process in which we will

[1:05:46] Trustee Patrick: come up with the object and the same with a strategic plan. We're not developing the strategic

[1:05:50] Trustee Patrick: plan. We're recommending process to get there. And I just want to make sure, because I think

[1:05:55] Trustee Patrick: that could have been lost in the conversation i

[1:05:59] Voice 9: don't want that responsibility okay here's the

[1:06:03] Voice 9: mission peter well

[1:06:06] Trustee Luckham: um i had an original mark i'll just pause on that for a moment

[1:06:09] Trustee Luckham: just to uh help the fishing expedition here whether or not um the cao needs a motion for that

[1:06:16] Trustee Luckham: additional information and um what would be helpful in that additional information which

[1:06:21] Trustee Luckham: is fairly common practice is links to the video with a time reference that we can quickly get to

[1:06:28] Trustee Luckham: that particular piece because indeed that um oral report was very different than the written report

[1:06:35] Trustee Luckham: so um if there's a motion necessary uh staff let us know uh

[1:06:40] Voice 10: i think madam chair i think this is

[1:06:42] Voice 10: direction to to us and it's a fairly low bar we can jump over here and we'll look at creating

[1:06:49] Voice 10: creating a file likely David and I'll think about it but we'll look at a place where where you can

[1:06:55] Voice 10: log behind our server and our firewall into a folder where this stuff will be curated in some

[1:07:02] Voice 10: way so that you can think it through so if you just give us a little time to think be thoughtful

[1:07:08] Voice 10: in doing that I think we've got the gist without a direct

[1:07:11] Voice 9: that'll be active and we'll keep adding

[1:07:13] Voice 9: adding to it as well. Thanks.

[1:07:15] Voice 9: Peter, your hand's still up?

[1:07:17] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, just before we move too far along,

[1:07:20] Trustee Luckham: I just wanted to capture an important element, I think, of what Joe reflected on there is,

[1:07:25] Trustee Luckham: you know, what I think he referenced as the vanilla stuff, the everyday business. Indeed,

[1:07:33] Trustee Luckham: LTCs have struggled for years with actually trying to prioritize by a percentage the amount

[1:07:40] Trustee Luckham: amount of application work versus the amount of project work to try and preserve those

[1:07:44] Trustee Luckham: spaces to provide effectiveness in the delivery of the public service that we do, which is

[1:07:49] Trustee Luckham: very right, Joe, but also achieve the opportunity to conduct project work.

[1:07:54] Trustee Luckham: And it's not necessarily homogenous across the region how that's actually done.

[1:08:00] Trustee Luckham: So, indeed, that strategic plan, that corporate plan, that, you know, it's a given that there

[1:08:05] Trustee Luckham: is a necessity to deliver the public service at a certain standard.

[1:08:08] Trustee Luckham: Maybe we need to spell that out differently and then preserve that space and indeed recognize that the project work often overwhelms the day-to-day application work, and that's why applications are slow.

[1:08:20] Trustee Luckham: There you go.

[1:08:21] Trustee Luckham: Thanks, Joe, for the tip on that.

[1:08:24] Voice 8: Joe?

[1:08:28] Voice 8: Here we go.

[1:08:28] Voice 8: Yes.

[1:08:30] Trustee Bernardo: Right.

[1:08:31] Trustee Bernardo: Right. CAO had anticipated a suggestion I was going to make, which was that the library suggested a great idea.

[1:08:39] Trustee Bernardo: And if I hear him correctly, I think it's an excellent suggestion that, especially within the interest of preserving the confidentiality of the material,

[1:08:48] Trustee Bernardo: that we have a kind of little portal that takes us behind the firewall.

[1:08:53] Trustee Bernardo: We don't get to download this stuff, but it's there available to us to read at will.

[1:08:59] Trustee Bernardo: and included in that material would be more than these legal opinions and the staff can just sort

[1:09:05] Trustee Bernardo: of dig around in the library and find the stuff that's relevant and over time we'll probably

[1:09:11] Trustee Bernardo: be able to provide more direction about what we want to see and that kind of stuff so that's a

[1:09:14] Trustee Bernardo: terrific idea i think operationally that's like sounds optimal to be able to sort of get the

[1:09:19] Trustee Bernardo: information that way um and i want to affirm what uh laura said which is uh the uh sorry trustee

[1:09:30] Trustee Bernardo: patrick which is that yeah our job here is not to uh develop a strategic plan it's to um start to

[1:09:39] Trustee Bernardo: sketch out what a strategic plan should look like it's almost like the parameters of what does it

[1:09:46] Trustee Bernardo: it ought to satisfy uh i think we can probably have a hand in helping to design the template

[1:09:53] Trustee Bernardo: for the strategic plan but i think that other committees particularly uh the one where trustee

[1:10:02] Trustee Bernardo: patrick hangs out over the over at rpc i think uh they're gonna have to take the lead together with

[1:10:10] Trustee Bernardo: with FPC to develop a muscular strategy

[1:10:14] Trustee Bernardo: for strategic planning, but with our help.

[1:10:19] Trustee Bernardo: Likewise, with respect to interpreting the trust object,

[1:10:25] Trustee Bernardo: it is not, I don't think for us to,

[1:10:30] Trustee Bernardo: it's a little different there.

[1:10:32] Trustee Bernardo: It's not for us to say what it ought to be.

[1:10:35] Trustee Bernardo: It is for us, I think, to bring to trust council

[1:10:38] Trustee Bernardo: at the end of the day uh what our best guess is as to what it might be if we can get there but if we

[1:10:46] Trustee Bernardo: don't and i would i could easily anticipate that there there could be fine points of difference

[1:10:53] Trustee Bernardo: about where the balance is in terms of what that thing is we may well find ourselves bringing

[1:10:59] Trustee Bernardo: alternative visions to trust council so i think with respect to the interpreting section three

[1:11:06] Trustee Bernardo: we're going to have to do more work i think in terms of refining what the alternatives are

[1:11:13] Trustee Bernardo: but at the end of the day uh chrissy patrick's quite right it's not for us to put our thumb

[1:11:18] Trustee Bernardo: on the scale in that respect it's to surface uh what the reasonable interpretations are and bring

[1:11:25] Trustee Bernardo: them available bring them

[1:11:26] Voice 8: forward for the trust council to deal with thank you so i can summarize

[1:11:34] Voice 8: summarize um one

[1:11:36] Voice 9: of the things when i was teaching in hong kong one of the things i had to do was

[1:11:40] Voice 9: time management and one of the things that i found the most helpful was to take a page of paper and

[1:11:44] Voice 9: divide it up into four equal squares and have on the one axis urgency and then the other access

[1:11:51] Voice 9: access importance um so that in the top right hand corner with the most importance and the most

[1:11:58] Voice 9: urgency um i've put the things that we've talked about today in terms of everybody's two top

[1:12:03] Voice 9: priorities. And I think for the other maybe 15 or 16, I'm adding representation that

[1:12:12] Voice 9: Trustee Patrick brought up in her comments, and I haven't heard of anybody else adding

[1:12:17] Voice 9: any other matters. I'm wondering if we can map these out, all of the recommendations and anything

[1:12:26] Voice 9: anything else into some sort of a schematic that gives us an idea of what's urgent and what's

[1:12:34] Voice 9: important so in the urgent and important what I think we've talked about already is to try and

[1:12:41] Voice 9: work on do some work on the mandate and help present something to trust council for work on

[1:12:48] Voice 9: that figuring out some sort of a strategic plan committee structures and policies and meeting

[1:12:57] Voice 9: process and local planning schools or problems the all of the stuff that's in annex one probably

[1:13:09] Voice 9: so that leaves election of the executive committee the size of committees

[1:13:17] Voice 9: committees um following proposals to the trust council and there's debate in terms of whether

[1:13:23] Voice 9: or not that in fact was a valid comment by the researchers the roles of the trustees

[1:13:31] Voice 9: giving them information prior to an election and then post-election

[1:13:36] Voice 9: expanding the membership on the trust council with respect to first nations and provincial

[1:13:42] Voice 9: provincial representation, advocacy, management review, and Islands Trust Conservancy and

[1:13:49] Voice 9: compensation. So if we were to look at election of the executive committee, I have put that into

[1:14:01] Voice 9: high importance, but low urgency. So top left corner. Representation of First Nations and

[1:14:11] Voice 9: And provincial members, plus the fact that it's an external matter that we don't have much control over, but it's something that we might want to figure out later how to get the province to help us with that.

[1:14:25] Voice 9: I put that into important, but also not urgent.

[1:14:31] Voice 9: The management review, I think, is of all of these things, that's something that's going to follow later.

[1:14:37] Voice 9: So it's less important and less urgent.

[1:14:39] Voice 9: Bottom left corner.

[1:14:42] Voice 9: And that's about as far as I got.

[1:14:44] Voice 9: So size and mandate of committees.

[1:14:48] Voice 9: I put that into, I lumped them together and I put them both into the important and urgent.

[1:14:57] Voice 9: I heard Peter speak to that.

[1:15:00] Voice 9: The secretariat.

[1:15:04] Voice 9: Lee, where do you think that should go?

[1:15:06] Voice 9: I know that that's urgent and important.

[1:15:10] Voice 9: Well, I know that you say it's important.

[1:15:12] Voice 9: Is it urgent?

[1:15:13] Voice 9: does it go into the upper left maybe it's important but it's not necessarily as urgent

[1:15:18] Voice 9: i

[1:15:19] Trustee Middleton: would say it it gives us the capacity to be uh more effective so the sooner we we

[1:15:27] Trustee Middleton: can look into the feasibility of that uh role as uh trustee bernardo again i'm not sure he was here

[1:15:33] Trustee Middleton: when we went over that talked about is being sort of synonymous with the general counsel role um

[1:15:40] Trustee Middleton: um is it uh do we have to stop everything until we've done it or investigated that role probably

[1:15:47] Trustee Middleton: not but i would i would suggest um sooner than later to at least have the analysis and um

[1:15:55] Trustee Middleton: decision making around what to do there okay so

[1:15:59] Voice 9: i'm putting that into high importance but

[1:16:01] Voice 9: low urgency on the understanding that it needs research and then we can shift it if we want to

[1:16:07] Voice 9: if we agreed to something to pursue that we've shifted into okay um

[1:16:15] Voice 8: advocacy where do you put

[1:16:24] Voice 8: that in terms of um urgency and importance it follows some of these other sorry i think joe

[1:16:36] Voice 8: had your hand up first yeah i did uh

[1:16:38] Trustee Bernardo: i appreciate what we're doing with this grid here and it is a

[1:16:45] Trustee Bernardo: a helpful mechanism to help clarify our thoughts, but I'm wary about accepting the assumption that

[1:16:53] Trustee Bernardo: these actually are 15 separate recommendations. They are very much interrelated. They're all kind

[1:16:59] Trustee Bernardo: of, they're like 15 blind men, you know, groping an elephant trying to figure out what it is.

[1:17:06] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, the management review, I actually consider to be fairly urgent. And it actually

[1:17:12] Trustee Bernardo: actually intersects with the business of the having an independent secretariat that's part

[1:17:19] Trustee Bernardo: of the whole management structure it's like change it's tweaking the management arrangement

[1:17:23] Trustee Bernardo: and the the problem i have with some of the language in the review is it's um it's a little

[1:17:30] Trustee Bernardo: uh intimidating in the sense that we you know use the term management review it sounds like

[1:17:35] Trustee Bernardo: some gigantic thing that you have to do that you're going to bring in experts and you're

[1:17:39] Trustee Bernardo: wheel in all this stuff. It can be that, but that's also another way of deferring having to

[1:17:48] Trustee Bernardo: do the work yourself and having to think about it. It may not be that complicated. I think the

[1:17:54] Trustee Bernardo: starting point of that is we simply examine it. We examine how far do we think it's necessary,

[1:18:03] Trustee Bernardo: determine the parameters of what needs to be reviewed, and it may well be something that

[1:18:07] Trustee Bernardo: it can be done internally but it's in and uh when we talk about or when the report talks about

[1:18:16] Trustee Bernardo: meeting policies and meeting um approaches that intersects with the whole management thing as well

[1:18:23] Trustee Bernardo: as does the strategic plan because if it turns out a strategic plan is saying look we need to

[1:18:29] Trustee Bernardo: put way more emphasis on the uh day-to-day work and we're going to allocate x percentage of our

[1:18:36] Trustee Bernardo: We're going to guarantee that it has X percentage of our resources, that it isn't the piglet at the end of the trough that keeps getting the least amount of the sloth.

[1:18:47] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, it actually gets its share that it needs to get.

[1:18:51] Trustee Bernardo: Well, that's also intersect with the management review.

[1:18:53] Trustee Bernardo: view so um i think the way i'm thinking about it is the strategic planning part of it is really

[1:19:03] Trustee Bernardo: important and with it it brings along a certain amount of the management review stuff and that

[1:19:09] Trustee Bernardo: we have to be alive to that and that the other management review stuff may well come later but

[1:19:15] Trustee Bernardo: i also share lee's view that i don't think that examining this um independent secretariat slash

[1:19:22] Trustee Bernardo: general counsel issue uh would it's not a particularly complicated thing um i view that

[1:19:31] Trustee Bernardo: as let's have a look at what some other local governments or parallel similar organizations

[1:19:35] Trustee Bernardo: how they've arranged it but that also intersects with the financial planning's concerns because we

[1:19:40] Trustee Bernardo: look at the budget there and we're spending something like 200 000 a year or setting aside

[1:19:44] Trustee Bernardo: 200 000 a year for for legal advice and you know the folks over at the law firm there seem to be

[1:19:51] Trustee Bernardo: be doing a great job and you know they're sound people and highly reputable but you know you're

[1:19:56] Trustee Bernardo: you're paying those folks you're paying for their overhead you're paying an awful lot for a letter

[1:20:03] Trustee Bernardo: uh that skill set can be brought in-house and when you have that skill set in-house it does

[1:20:10] Trustee Bernardo: make you a much more robust organization so uh i view that as kind of a an area that is

[1:20:17] Trustee Bernardo: is urgent i don't know where you put it in the list

[1:20:23] Voice 9: of things but i don't

[1:20:24] Trustee Bernardo: see it as that hard

[1:20:25] Trustee Bernardo: to do either thank you

[1:20:27] Voice 9: they're all interconnected they're all over layered it's you know that's the

[1:20:32] Voice 9: complexity of all of this but you know it's a place to start sorry laura it

[1:20:39] Trustee Patrick: it is um and

[1:20:43] Trustee Patrick: and i looked at it as sort of the strategic plan is is really the what we're doing and i and i

[1:20:49] Trustee Patrick: I agree with the trustee Bernardo. It's all that what we're doing,

[1:20:52] Trustee Patrick: we're saying this is the,

[1:20:54] Trustee Patrick: and then the organizational structure is an outcome of that.

[1:20:58] Trustee Patrick: It's aligning now, once it's clear,

[1:21:00] Trustee Patrick: what we say is important that the organization is structured behind that.

[1:21:05] Trustee Patrick: So that's why I kind of moved the management review is a little bit lower

[1:21:09] Trustee Patrick: was we got to figure that out first and that the performance, you know,

[1:21:15] Trustee Patrick: to allow those things to line up. And then, like I said,

[1:21:17] Trustee Patrick: performance is just the report because the performance has to be that's part of the

[1:21:20] Trustee Patrick: strategic plan it lays out what are those metrics but the reporting is is how we're doing how staff

[1:21:27] Trustee Patrick: are doing how everyone's doing on meeting that meeting that i wanted the advocacy piece and that

[1:21:33] Trustee Patrick: was one of the things that i had stressed was i what i thought was missing was was you know the

[1:21:40] Trustee Patrick: in cooperation with part of our mandate kind of got lost in that report or didn't was not even

[1:21:46] Trustee Patrick: been really addressed in my opinion and and i and i saw you know just saying communications and

[1:21:53] Trustee Patrick: engagement was not the answer you know we have government government uh you know government

[1:22:00] Trustee Patrick: relations uh but there's probably first nations engagement in in relations that is you know

[1:22:09] Trustee Patrick: separate as well you know communications and then public engagement each one of those things are

[1:22:13] Trustee Patrick: of different tool sets different uh structures and and then the whole protocol agreement thing

[1:22:20] Trustee Patrick: which we have dozens of in this uh uh in this organization weren't even looked at and many of

[1:22:27] Trustee Patrick: them are 1992 vintage that have not been maintained or updated and so to me that's something that's

[1:22:33] Trustee Patrick: strategically missing that's you know going to come out of the strategic plan but we've got

[1:22:38] Trustee Patrick: a track record we have to look at.

[1:22:42] Voice 8: Kate Louise?

[1:22:48] Voice 8: Yeah, I just see in terms of process,

[1:22:51] Voice 13: I mentioned it before,

[1:22:52] Voice 13: a lot of times we get bogged down

[1:22:55] Voice 13: on how that vision is interpreted.

[1:22:59] Voice 13: And we tend to swirl around and around

[1:23:01] Voice 13: our housing versus biodiversity priorities.

[1:23:06] Voice 13: We have to get that nailed down

[1:23:08] Voice 13: to some point of trust council agreement.

[1:23:11] Voice 13: Then we can work our strategic plan out for the term, make it a corporate plan.

[1:23:20] Voice 13: Then that gives us the structure to look at how the management is in alignment with the strategic plan.

[1:23:28] Voice 13: And from there we can see where the gaps are in order to determine how a secretariat position is formed.

[1:23:38] Voice 13: if you know how that works within our structure um i i do have concerns about how it's portrayed

[1:23:46] Voice 13: in the report right now but i think there's room for better support to the council and how we align

[1:23:53] Voice 13: that is where are the gaps staff as to how it can be filled um in what capacity it could be

[1:24:01] Voice 13: completely different way but i am really concerned about coming to a trust council with yet another

[1:24:07] Voice 13: other position that we don't really have fully fleshed out and does not have a doesn't fit into

[1:24:14] Voice 13: our vision or strategic plan

[1:24:15] Voice 8: at this point thank you grant thank you um

[1:24:24] Voice 4: to be honest i'm kind of

[1:24:27] Voice 4: confused in all this everybody went away and did their homework everybody brought those comments

[1:24:33] Voice 4: back so going through those as i said earlier i tried to see mine from the lens of cornby island

[1:24:41] Voice 4: and the more I hear people speaking I think the first thing we need is the policy statement

[1:24:49] Voice 4: because in my mind isn't the strategic plan follow from the policy statement we don't have

[1:24:55] Voice 4: a policy statement first the strategic plan flows out of that it seems to me everything else we're

[1:25:01] Voice 4: talking about would flow from that logic the chapters of the strategic plan would be how and

[1:25:09] Voice 4: when and who we're going to do that stuff so looking back at the policy statement to me that

[1:25:16] Voice 4: that's the key that's got the directive policies the visions and what we're supposed to be doing

[1:25:23] Voice 4: and we took a stab at that last term but i think we have to finish that work now

[1:25:28] Voice 8: who

[1:25:29] Voice 4: does that work and when that gets done and how that flows into what we're doing here i'm

[1:25:33] Voice 4: not sure do we do it because it was the program committee peter if i'm right you did it last time

[1:25:37] Voice 4: is

[1:25:38] Voice 8: that right yeah executive committee

[1:25:47] Trustee Luckham: responsibility uh but uh tasked um in

[1:25:51] Trustee Luckham: cooperation with uh trust programs committee right

[1:25:54] Voice 4: so so that's the way i see it if we get

[1:25:57] Voice 4: the policy statement straight the strategic plan flows out of that then it's what who how and when

[1:26:03] Voice 4: do we put these things in place flow it over out over a period of time whose responsibility is

[1:26:09] Voice 4: Because then it seems to me we can get into this idea of a secretariat budgeting and we need more money to do this.

[1:26:17] Voice 4: So I'll just leave it there for now, because that sort of clarifies some of my confusion if we get into that logic flow.

[1:26:25] Voice 4: Thank you. Thank you.

[1:26:27] Voice 9: Okay. Peter and Joe, you're next.

[1:26:30] Voice 9: But I want to interject.

[1:26:32] Voice 9: We're an hour and a half into it.

[1:26:33] Voice 9: And basically this grid with the four things.

[1:26:37] Voice 9: We've got the mandate, strategic plan, I've just thrown in policy statement, committees, meeting process and policies and local planning.

[1:26:47] Voice 9: And if we end up spending either more time today figuring out how we're going to tackle those as the urgent and most important,

[1:26:58] Voice 9: then figure out a work plan that we present to Trust Council and see whether or not they agree that we should continue this way.

[1:27:06] Voice 9: then we can sort out some of these other things that will follow that are

[1:27:10] Voice 9: overlapping and inter interrelated. So Kate Louise,

[1:27:16] Voice 9: I just put advocacy and communications into urgent,

[1:27:21] Voice 9: but less important just for the sake of not putting it,

[1:27:26] Voice 9: everything into the upper right hand part of the grid so that it's,

[1:27:30] Voice 9: it's on the grid, but it's and I'm going to suggest that we've got three hands

[1:27:36] Voice 9: up that we deal with those comments and then we take a very short break and stretch our legs and

[1:27:41] Voice 9: then maybe just five ten minutes and then come back so peter yeah

[1:27:48] Trustee Luckham: well uh two uh thank yous

[1:27:51] Trustee Luckham: one to grant for bringing us back to the policy statement which is an incredibly complex

[1:27:56] Trustee Luckham: conversation in itself um and two uh judy for you bringing us back to where we started a few

[1:28:02] Trustee Luckham: minutes ago with this chart of yours. And I just want to mention, well, two things is that

[1:28:09] Trustee Luckham: complexity is something that isn't necessarily measured on a one-dimensional chart. And I do a

[1:28:16] Trustee Luckham: lot of AutoCAD work and a lot of thoughts go into extraterrestrial travel. And there's an X and Y,

[1:28:23] Trustee Luckham: certainly, but there's also a Z-axis. And to me, that Z-axis is the complexity. And of course,

[1:28:29] Trustee Luckham: when you move into a three-dimensional uh space it's a different view so i so just that that's

[1:28:37] Trustee Luckham: remarked there needs to be a z-axis or something in there and then it seems to me that i'm hoping

[1:28:42] Trustee Luckham: that this is being recorded what this chart looks like at this point and that could maybe be

[1:28:46] Trustee Luckham: circulated and maybe actually everybody in the group offline um could actually do their own chart

[1:28:53] Trustee Luckham: of that and then correlate the numbers to sort of get a consensus uh model out of that chart

[1:28:59] Trustee Luckham: to uh as you've indicated is uh a tool to get us to a place where maybe we're making some

[1:29:06] Trustee Luckham: recommendations about direction here

[1:29:08] Voice 9: i am trying to simplify and you're adding a zed access

[1:29:14] Voice 9: joe

[1:29:20] Trustee Bernardo: thank you um yeah and just following up on trustee scott's uh comment which i think he

[1:29:26] Trustee Bernardo: He draws a fair point there, and I think it's a valuable one, which is that it actually

[1:29:37] Trustee Bernardo: highlights, I think, what the mission of this committee is about, which is, I agree with

[1:29:44] Trustee Bernardo: Trustee Scott that we need to arrive, arriving at an interpretation of Section 3 and then

[1:29:52] Trustee Bernardo: developing the policy statement is pretty crucial for determining what the ultimate

[1:29:58] Trustee Bernardo: content.

[1:30:00] Trustee Bernardo: of a strategic plan is but as we were talking about before uh that's something that we don't

[1:30:09] Trustee Bernardo: develop the actual content of the plan is going to be developed by other collections of trustees

[1:30:16] Trustee Bernardo: and other committees and the fact that the policy statement hasn't been uh yet developed uh doesn't

[1:30:22] Trustee Bernardo: hold us back from developing the process for strategic planning and so the distinction i

[1:30:30] Trustee Bernardo: I think Trustee Scott has raised is, yeah, there's the content of the strategic plan and

[1:30:36] Trustee Bernardo: the policy, everything that turns on the policy statement stuff. But the process of developing

[1:30:43] Trustee Bernardo: strategic plan, which we don't have, we don't have a corporate planning process. That's something we

[1:30:48] Trustee Bernardo: can develop. And it's content free. It's actually neutral. It's how you do this work. It's the

[1:30:55] Trustee Bernardo: mechanics of managing the process. And that's, I think, where we can provide a lot of energy and

[1:31:00] Trustee Bernardo: assistance to the other committees, FPC, RPC, that are tasked with that thing by bringing it

[1:31:09] Trustee Bernardo: forward and identifying it as a matter of urgency for the trust council so they can endorse that

[1:31:14] Trustee Bernardo: and we can go from there.

[1:31:18] Voice 9: And that's like figuring out times and space and whether or not we get

[1:31:22] Voice 9: some support and all of those kinds of details of the process, that kind of thing?

[1:31:27] Trustee Bernardo: In terms of

[1:31:27] Trustee Bernardo: sort of a corporate planning process uh when one thing and i think this is something we'd have to

[1:31:33] Trustee Bernardo: work very closely with staff on uh in particular director of minister of services because it

[1:31:38] Trustee Bernardo: intersects with the budget um typically the corporate planning process involves uh a pretty

[1:31:45] Trustee Bernardo: intensive process of engaging with uh you know to use the jargon the stakeholders and that includes

[1:31:51] Trustee Bernardo: staff to develop the priorities but also to have the but that's within the framework of a mechanism

[1:31:59] Trustee Bernardo: that there's an internal consultation process that has itself as benchmarks for example this

[1:32:05] Trustee Bernardo: or that department if they're going to want anything any amount of money that year they're

[1:32:11] Trustee Bernardo: going to have to make a proposal early on justifying it and that gets that goes into the

[1:32:16] Trustee Bernardo: flow and that requires deadlines it needs uh criteria the business plans or the business

[1:32:25] Trustee Bernardo: cases for example uh right now we have business cases but we don't have business plans things

[1:32:32] Trustee Bernardo: like that developing those things those are content neutral they're process things and we

[1:32:37] Trustee Bernardo: can we can get at those right away okay

[1:32:40] Voice 9: and i think that's part of the um later conversation

[1:32:43] Voice 9: in terms of developing a work program.

[1:32:47] Voice 9: Lee.

[1:32:49] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair.

[1:32:50] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I think just echoing back to Grant's comments,

[1:32:56] Trustee Middleton: why we're focusing on governance and governance reform

[1:33:00] Trustee Middleton: is to be able to do projects like the policy statement.

[1:33:04] Trustee Middleton: I won't say just better,

[1:33:06] Trustee Middleton: I'll say in a way that we can have any hope of success

[1:33:09] Trustee Middleton: because what was talked in the report,

[1:33:11] Trustee Middleton: and we know personally there was not consensus either at the committee level or certainly at

[1:33:20] Trustee Middleton: council level about what the content of that policy statement should be and we lacked the

[1:33:24] Trustee Middleton: tools of talking across the table to arrive at sort of consensus you know not unanimity necessarily

[1:33:31] Trustee Middleton: but enough political consensus that we could go out and be champions of that policy statement

[1:33:36] Trustee Middleton: review. Indeed, we weren't. We tripped up all over ourselves. And, you know, there's nobody

[1:33:42] Trustee Middleton: to blame there. This is like, what we're saying is, we're lacking the tools to have those kind

[1:33:47] Trustee Middleton: of deep conversations to bring people who may share different values to a common place that

[1:33:54] Trustee Middleton: we can then document and go out to the public and consult on and then obviously guide our

[1:33:59] Trustee Middleton: actions over the over the coming years so having said that there is some requirement for

[1:34:06] Trustee Middleton: prioritization of the work that we're doing i've fully agreed that there there's a lot of overlapping

[1:34:11] Trustee Middleton: and intersection um but developing a framework and again this is to echo what uh trustee bernardo

[1:34:20] Trustee Middleton: said we're developing a framework we're not developing the policy statement we're developing

[1:34:24] Trustee Middleton: a framework that can be used to create um the policy statement and i mean the risk is that you

[1:34:32] Trustee Middleton: know the definition of insanity do the same thing we've always done and expect a different result

[1:34:36] Trustee Middleton: i think that's where we'd be right now if we started working on the policy statement

[1:34:39] Trustee Middleton: immediately without um without looking at sort of the framework by which we arrive at such a

[1:34:45] Trustee Middleton: document and how we judge its internal support before going out so without going on at length

[1:34:53] Trustee Middleton: I just want to reiterate that we do need to focus on some of the structures of how we tackle these big questions and talk about things that have, you know, are value laden and have those somewhat in place.

[1:35:09] Trustee Middleton: And you could have a trial version before we actually engage in sort of vision setting or the policy statement.

[1:35:18] Trustee Middleton: So, yeah, that's my that's my point it's, it is all interlinked, but there is a necessity for some prioritization and the development work that we do, I think, to better support our work as a whole this term.

[1:35:33] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[1:35:35] Voice 9: Thanks.

[1:35:36] Voice 9: So, two more hands, three more hands have been raised since I last mentioned that we need a break.

[1:35:43] Voice 9: Can we take the break and come back to you three.

[1:35:47] Voice 8: All right, five minutes.

[1:35:49] Voice 8: just want to report you can't boil a thing of water in three minutes hey

[1:42:29] Voice 9: louise your hand was

[1:42:31] Voice 9: up call the meeting back into order sorry for the record i

[1:42:35] Voice 13: think everything i wanted to say

[1:42:37] Voice 13: had been adequately said oh thank

[1:42:41] Voice 9: you russ your hand is up i

[1:42:45] Voice 8: don't see your picture though are

[1:42:45] Voice 8: you there might not be back yet maybe he's still boiling water hi tim just mentioned

[1:43:06] Voice 8: and uh can you turn your video off yeah

[1:43:10] Voice 9: it's hard to hear you're

[1:43:13] Voice 16: breaking it off because

[1:43:14] Voice 16: sometimes it gets better bandwidth yeah i was just trying to say uh connectivity is a challenge

[1:43:21] Voice 16: today so how

[1:43:23] Voice 9: are you doing are you getting any of it uh

[1:43:26] Voice 16: i'm getting i'm getting a lot but uh

[1:43:30] Voice 16: certain sections are breaking up really bad so i'll i'll probably uh i'll probably be uh looking

[1:43:37] Voice 16: at looking at the video later on yeah

[1:43:42] Voice 8: it is being recorded yeah someone else had their hand up i

[1:43:52] Voice 8: think it was peter maybe are we all back okay

[1:44:17] Voice 9: so i still see his hand up with russ but i don't see

[1:44:20] Voice 9: a picture so he may not be back in his chair um let's carry on um in terms of what this committee

[1:44:36] Voice 9: I think we have to figure out how to report to the Trust Council and what it is that we want to get, maybe not approval, but some sort of an, if we tell them, explain to them what it is that our plans are and what we're going to try and do, whether or not they agree with that, that that's a reasonably good direction and that we've made some progress.

[1:45:04] Voice 9: So, and that I think sorting out the expectations that we're not going to be coming up with the magic answers for either the mandate or the policy or a strategic plan, but we want to try and get some structure and some idea of how to get there.

[1:45:25] Voice 9: And that's the work plan.

[1:45:27] Voice 9: Would that be a fair assessment in terms of what we're going to go to the trust committee about?

[1:45:32] Voice 9: Okay, so Russ, you're back.

[1:45:33] Voice 9: You had your hand up.

[1:45:35] Voice 10: uh thank you madam chair it's just in relation to the previous comments

[1:45:40] Voice 10: discussion on the policy statement which is

[1:45:41] Voice 6: great

[1:45:42] Voice 10: to hear so that that's an imminent decision

[1:45:49] Voice 10: so you know i think executive committee is getting a draft just so you know just the context of that

[1:45:54] Voice 10: conversation it has been a substantial piece of work over the last two years and it is in a form

[1:45:59] Voice 10: that trust council said make it so and that has been developed and trust council is going to get

[1:46:06] Voice 10: to look at that in the next couple of months um and executive committee so i just attune you to

[1:46:13] Voice 10: the executive committee agenda the work plan for the upcoming policy statement work phase

[1:46:17] Voice 10: four if you want to call it that um is imminent so that's just information just in terms of the

[1:46:21] Voice 10: timeline and horizon trust council may decide to do whatever it does but it is it is at a place um

[1:46:28] Voice 10: for some consideration at some point so how you synchronize that reality right now with where

[1:46:35] Voice 10: where you're going is worthy consideration for the governance committee.

[1:46:39] Voice 10: Thank you.

[1:46:42] Voice 8: Now, Peter, before we left for the break, you had your hand up.

[1:46:45] Voice 8: It's down now.

[1:46:52] Voice 8: You're mute.

[1:46:54] Trustee Luckham: Sorry.

[1:46:55] Trustee Luckham: I got disconnected and had to figure out somewhere to plug in.

[1:46:58] Trustee Luckham: So thank you for asking me to come back.

[1:47:01] Trustee Luckham: Just reflecting on what was the conversation,

[1:47:05] Trustee Luckham: and I missed actually the CEO's remarks there.

[1:47:10] Trustee Luckham: of course in the governance process here and the revision of thinking about how we govern

[1:47:17] Trustee Luckham: we I think it's too it might be easy for us to get lost in micromanagement of how we actually

[1:47:25] Trustee Luckham: do things on the ground and so we need to provide direction about how it is that we want to do

[1:47:29] Trustee Luckham: things and indeed we have staff and resources and subcommittees and council that would provide

[1:47:35] Trustee Luckham: some more of the details and the reason I mentioned that is because of Lee raised the

[1:47:41] Trustee Luckham: topic of the policy statement and that and a framework for the policy statement

[1:47:47] Trustee Luckham: what we're actually doing with the policy statement is amendments we're not creating a

[1:47:52] Trustee Luckham: you know a semantic sure but we hadn't necessarily set out to create a brand new policy statement

[1:48:00] Trustee Luckham: never created before we've got a policy statement of which there are amendments and I think we need

[1:48:05] Trustee Luckham: to focus on that work in that direction unless council decides otherwise that create go out and

[1:48:11] Trustee Luckham: create a brand new one so and maybe it got lost in translation but anyway just be conscious about

[1:48:17] Trustee Luckham: micromanaging things with respect to providing a governance model

[1:48:23] Voice 8: trustee scott thank you

[1:48:27] Voice 8: you uh i have the policy

[1:48:30] Voice 4: statement that's in place now which is april of 2003 is that right peter

[1:48:38] Voice 4: russ is that the existing one so there's been a draft and work done on that in last term

[1:48:45] Voice 4: so could you send us the latest version of that uh what

[1:48:51] Voice 8: you're referring to russ the draft

[1:49:00] Voice 10: if i may madam chair so that's an ongoing piece of work trustee scott and uh there's a series 32

[1:49:08] Voice 10: amendments to that document that have been divined over the last two or three years

[1:49:13] Voice 10: and it's coming back to you in a new form in um the spring so that's being worked on right now

[1:49:22] Voice 10: if we if you said send me the current policy statement to be the one you're holding right now

[1:49:25] Voice 10: we can give you the last draft that went to uh trust council but trust council directed in

[1:49:31] Voice 10: september that those amendments be made and they're being made so um the

[1:49:37] Voice 11: staff have been

[1:49:40] Voice 10: directed the staff have been directed by trust programs committee and trust through trust council

[1:49:45] Voice 10: to make these amendments um which is just an ongoing element of the work and it's coming to

[1:49:52] Voice 10: you the next step in that process is um for you to for ec to approve the next stage of it it's

[1:50:00] Voice 10: through the it's um those dollars are being contemplated through the financial management

[1:50:04] Voice 10: process and you'll get a fresh draft to look at um just you

[1:50:12] Voice 8: know i would think in april or may

[1:50:19] Voice 8: trustee bernardo uh thank you um about this policy statement

[1:50:26] Trustee Bernardo: um this is really more of an

[1:50:30] Trustee Bernardo: on the order of a question, you know,

[1:50:37] Trustee Bernardo: because there's, you know,

[1:50:40] Trustee Bernardo: the majority of the trustees on this committee

[1:50:44] Trustee Bernardo: were around last term.

[1:50:46] Trustee Bernardo: So they've got a perspective that Jamie and I don't have,

[1:50:49] Trustee Bernardo: which is having experienced it.

[1:50:53] Trustee Bernardo: What's that?

[1:50:53] Trustee Bernardo: Or me.

[1:50:54] Trustee Bernardo: Or you, that's right, or the chair.

[1:50:59] Trustee Bernardo: And the experienced trustees have got a perspective

[1:51:05] Trustee Bernardo: uh on the divisions that are discussed in the governance report and anecdotally from the things

[1:51:16] Trustee Bernardo: i've heard from people and also from what i've read in the report it's pretty clear that the

[1:51:22] Trustee Bernardo: policy statement was an occasion for a substantial disagreement uh for the reasons that have been

[1:51:30] Trustee Bernardo: discussed in the report i mean there's just not there's just not consensus on the vision of what

[1:51:36] Trustee Bernardo: what the idols of trust should be.

[1:51:38] Trustee Bernardo: And so in that context,

[1:51:41] Trustee Bernardo: what I'm hearing talk about under the draft is coming

[1:51:43] Trustee Bernardo: and all that kind of stuff.

[1:51:45] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, that's fine.

[1:51:45] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, this is work that is on its way,

[1:51:47] Trustee Bernardo: but this question I'm going to ask is also colored

[1:51:52] Trustee Bernardo: by the fact that FPC is concerned about the budget,

[1:51:56] Trustee Bernardo: how realistic and the policy statement

[1:51:59] Trustee Bernardo: is an element of that.

[1:52:01] Trustee Bernardo: How realistic is it to expect that whatever the draft is

[1:52:05] Trustee Bernardo: that comes out of staff's current work

[1:52:08] Trustee Bernardo: is that it's going to cut the Gordian Knot.

[1:52:11] Trustee Bernardo: Everything I've heard from people

[1:52:13] Trustee Bernardo: and everything I've read suggests

[1:52:17] Trustee Bernardo: the odds are very low.

[1:52:19] Trustee Bernardo: Those disagreements are going to carry forward

[1:52:21] Trustee Bernardo: precisely because we don't have a common conception

[1:52:23] Trustee Bernardo: of what this organization is supposed to be doing.

[1:52:25] Trustee Bernardo: I don't know that's the case.

[1:52:27] Trustee Bernardo: I'm inferring this based on the information

[1:52:29] Trustee Bernardo: I've had before.

[1:52:30] Trustee Bernardo: So this is actually a genuine question.

[1:52:32] Trustee Bernardo: How realistic is it for us to expect

[1:52:34] Trustee Bernardo: that the next work product out of this policy statement drafting exercise is something the

[1:52:39] Trustee Bernardo: trust council is going to say hey this is terrific it's what we always wanted we're done like we've

[1:52:44] Trustee Bernardo: we've crossed the threshold or is it going to be another example of what we've seen apparently for

[1:52:51] Trustee Bernardo: years now sawing back and forth and the disagreements will come to the surface

[1:52:56] Voice 8: which

[1:52:57] Voice 8: Which one is it? Thanks.

[1:53:02] Voice 8: That's a rhetorical question, I assume.

[1:53:06] Trustee Bernardo: Oh, no, that's a legitimate question.

[1:53:08] Trustee Bernardo: I preface by saying I don't have the history of this personally.

[1:53:13] Trustee Bernardo: I'm just, I'm operating on secondhand information here.

[1:53:16] Trustee Bernardo: I want a realistic assessment of what we can expect the outcome of that to be,

[1:53:21] Trustee Bernardo: because that should, that will color how we approach this.

[1:53:23] Voice 9: But that's a crystal ball. So in terms of, you know, it's a Gordian knot.

[1:53:28] Voice 9: And, you know, do we have people that are interested and skilled at taking a part and unraveling those kinds of things?

[1:53:36] Voice 9: And, you know, I think our function, what we talked about before, was to figure out the process and what we can recommend in terms of getting to a point where we can have time and the ability to help us discuss that.

[1:53:51] Voice 9: that so that you know it's we're all in the same study group we're all trying to figure it out and

[1:53:56] Voice 9: we're all getting really good at unraveling you know i'm a knitter i get balls of wool that are

[1:54:01] Voice 9: all messed up and i love it so you know we'll do jigsaw puzzles on the side or something i don't

[1:54:06] Voice 9: know but um anyway sorry jamie thank

[1:54:13] Voice 8: you judy i'll

[1:54:16] Voice 3: try and um anyway one of the things that

[1:54:21] Voice 3: keeps running through my mind here uh um is the song um there's a hole in my bucket dear eliza

[1:54:27] Voice 3: i hope that's the theme song of the governance committee um anyways i hope i can tie all this

[1:54:34] Voice 3: together um the policy statement clearly is tied to things that um joe was mentioning earlier as

[1:54:46] Voice 3: as far as possibly we need to be working on the daily vanilla kind of stuff

[1:54:56] Voice 3: and focusing on that or urging Trust Council to focus on that kind of stuff

[1:55:01] Voice 3: and not be looking at big, bright, shiny things.

[1:55:07] Voice 3: Now, as far as the policy statement goes,

[1:55:11] Voice 3: You know, that's basically why I'm here is the new policy statement draft that was brought

[1:55:19] Voice 3: out on Salt Spring, anyhow, and Galliano and I've had feedback from people on Pender as

[1:55:27] Voice 3: well and Maine.

[1:55:30] Voice 3: But anyways, is, you know, there was some real contentious stuff in there that caused

[1:55:37] Voice 3: a lot of stress and anxiety for many people on the islands and on both sides of the coin,

[1:55:48] Voice 3: including many local Indigenous. So clearly something wasn't right. And I'm glad that

[1:55:53] Voice 3: we're going to try and fix this. And it goes back to this preserve and protect mandate.

[1:56:02] Voice 3: And I hope, like, can we, as a governance committee, possibly give a new clear definition or idea of a definition of the preserve and protect mandate, possibly, so that it would include, you know, include the people factor, folks living and working in our communities.

[1:56:29] Voice 3: And more importantly, there's mounting, you know, correct factual science needs to be used and vetted and, you know, checked and double checked before we initiate any new projects or restrictive regulations, you know, in the policy statement.

[1:56:53] Voice 3: and more importantly we need to look back at previous initiatives that have um that have been

[1:57:04] Voice 3: done on with possibly some incorrect science which there's there's clear evidence out there

[1:57:11] Voice 3: i've been involved with this for quite a while um regarding the postal douglas fur and that's

[1:57:17] Voice 3: the contentious end of the policy the new policy statement draft that i had the only one that i've

[1:57:22] Voice 3: seen yet i haven't seen the new revised one so i don't know what's in there but um i need to

[1:57:27] Voice 3: interrupt

[1:57:27] Voice 9: i i think there's a difference between the content and the process and i think our

[1:57:34] Voice 9: mandate is to try and help trust council figure out a process so if we spent a whole lot of time

[1:57:40] Voice 9: figuring out and coming up with an agreement amongst the 10 of us in terms of what the should

[1:57:46] Voice 9: should say in the policy statement and then it was presented to trust council that we'd repeat

[1:57:52] Voice 9: all of that and we'd probably you know come up with a different one so i don't i don't know that

[1:57:57] Voice 3: we i'm not suggesting we come up with us in the policy statement but that we at least give

[1:58:04] Voice 3: direction that well one which i was just mentioning that correct science must be used

[1:58:11] Voice 8: and

[1:58:12] Voice 3: checked and double checked by provincial experts sure and it's like the experts not

[1:58:18] Voice 3: somebody who's second hand or third hand but the experts and and i'm sure we'll come up there'll

[1:58:24] Voice 3: be new people that we'll be talking to as well um and um again the for the policy statement that's

[1:58:31] Voice 3: why that's basically why i'm here and i'll maybe i'll just leave it at that for now and see what

[1:58:37] Voice 3: Fair

[1:58:38] Voice 9: enough. And I think that it's important in terms of what the discussion is going to be around the full council table.

[1:58:44] Voice 9: We've got 26 members and staff and, you know, executive committee opinions and all the rest of it.

[1:58:50] Voice 9: So us helping to figure out how we get those discussions fully and fairly dealt with.

[1:59:00] Voice 9: I think that's our mandate to try and figure out the process.

[1:59:03] Voice 9: process. And then everybody has to come up with, if they can, what the content is going to be and

[1:59:09] Voice 9: what we can agree on, whether it's based on science. You know, I would caution all about

[1:59:15] Voice 9: experts. I've done a lot of expert opinions all through court stuff, and there's experts and

[1:59:19] Voice 9: there's experts. So, you know, we can figure out that one as well. Enough of my aside, Tim.

[1:59:27] Voice 9: Yeah,

[1:59:34] Voice 8: thank you, Chair.

[1:59:34] Voice 16: I just want to point out that the policy statement is actually foundational to all the rest of the work of the local trust committees and everything else. It's not a sidebar. It's incredibly unfortunate that it's so far behind in its review process. 18 years is so far from what we should.

[2:00:00] Voice 16: have been uh doing in terms of of regular updates um that said i think it's important for everyone

[2:00:06] Voice 16: to remember that trust council in its june and september meetings last year made 32 resolutions

[2:00:14] Voice 16: in respect to uh in respect to amending that draft and uh so at this point i think everyone needs to

[2:00:24] Voice 16: just wait until we get to that draft with those 32 amendments which i believe i mean my experience

[2:00:30] Voice 16: of that is that those spoke to the controversial aspects of what had been in the draft before

[2:00:37] Voice 16: uh 32 amendments i think is gonna is going to uh show some fairly substantial differences between

[2:00:46] Voice 16: the draft we're anticipating and the draft we uh we looked at uh previously uh so i just wanted

[2:00:54] Voice 16: to point that part out um uh let's not presuppose what the reception of of that new draft is yet

[2:01:03] Voice 16: until we've all had a chance to look at it it's gonna 32 two resolutions that's a big difference

[2:01:08] Voice 16: um that said yeah the the policy statement is foundational to all the rest of our work

[2:01:14] Voice 16: it's the it's the shoulds it's the directive policies uh that go out to ltcs so um

[2:01:20] Voice 16: Um, it, it may have become very controversial in the, in the drafting over, over the last,

[2:01:26] Voice 16: uh, the last version of it, but it's, it's, uh, it's an essential part of, of what to

[2:01:32] Voice 16: trustee Bernardo, uh, called the vanilla, um, aspect, uh, although it's hard to sort

[2:01:38] Voice 16: of assign, uh, given the history of the last two years of vanilla to it, but it's, it's

[2:01:43] Voice 16: foundational um so and again uh i think that the focus of this committee is is about uh suggesting

[2:01:53] Voice 16: processes uh to for trust council's uh approval uh if we get into the minutia of content uh we're

[2:02:03] Voice 16: gonna be spinning our wheels and i think i'm productively because if that's not our that's

[2:02:07] Voice 16: not our job in this committee um just uh while i've well i've got the floor and i've got some

[2:02:16] Voice 16: connectivity i'm just going to circle back to the uh the strategic planning process uh um and

[2:02:26] Voice 16: again reiterate it's it's our job to suggest processes how we might uh improve uh shift the

[2:02:36] Voice 16: the current version if our recommendations

[2:02:42] Voice 16: to trust council is to come up with a more long-term

[2:02:46] Voice 16: planning process as suggested in the recommendations

[2:02:49] Voice 16: of the governance report,

[2:02:51] Voice 16: then we need to be thinking about those mechanisms.

[2:02:56] Voice 16: Content is not our job in this committee.

[2:03:01] Voice 16: We're all about mechanisms, processes,

[2:03:04] Voice 16: and ultimately reaching some form of general agreement

[2:03:11] Voice 16: in this committee so that we can take recommendations

[2:03:14] Voice 16: to trust council that at least the majority of us

[2:03:18] Voice 16: think are worthy of putting in front of trust council

[2:03:21] Voice 16: for final decision.

[2:03:23] Voice 16: Thank you.

[2:03:24] Voice 16: Thanks.

[2:03:25] Voice 8: Trustee Scott.

[2:03:27] Voice 8: Thank you.

[2:03:30] Voice 8: And what you just said, if not us, who?

[2:03:37] Voice 8: who puts the words

[2:03:38] Voice 4: i mean as i understand it we're getting uh a draft from staff

[2:03:46] Voice 8: we get that draft others get that draft who actually goes through and suggests the wording

[2:03:56] Voice 8: there are changes to that wording who is it the

[2:04:01] Voice 9: trust council i would assume that's going to be

[2:04:04] Voice 9: the debate and our our suggestions might be in terms of how to handle that debate but

[2:04:10] Voice 4: excuse me that sounds to me like having 26 people wordsmith a document to me is a horror story yes

[2:04:19] Voice 4: so i think it's much better if somebody like us comes up with wording suggest suggestions based

[2:04:26] Voice 4: on what russ is talking about i'd like to get that russ a hardball date on that document because i

[2:04:33] Voice 4: think it's foundational to everything else we're doing so i'm hoping it won't be may and then it

[2:04:37] Voice 4: it gets to June and it drifts into the summer

[2:04:39] Voice 4: and you see, well, that's why it gets off into September.

[2:04:42] Voice 4: So I'm really worried.

[2:04:47] Voice 8: We're drifting away from the

[2:04:49] Voice 16: prioritizing.

[2:04:50] Voice 16: If I could just really quickly,

[2:04:53] Voice 16: Trustee Scott, the policy statement where it sits right now

[2:04:57] Voice 16: is at another committee, that's a trust programs committee

[2:05:02] Voice 16: and the executive committee.

[2:05:04] Voice 16: And those committees are going to be getting a look at it

[2:05:06] Voice 16: uh and and bringing it to to trust council and in june is my understanding so it is definitely

[2:05:13] Voice 16: not our purview of this committee to wordsmith that document you just answered

[2:05:18] Voice 16: yeah so that's

[2:05:19] Voice 16: you just

[2:05:20] Voice 4: answered my question good it's the program committee doing that then

[2:05:22] Voice 4: okay fine good

[2:05:23] Voice 4: thanks

[2:05:25] Voice 8: louise um

[2:05:28] Voice 13: i'm just going to give a very brief background um but i'm going to take this

[2:05:33] Voice 13: one on the nose um the first um motion that i saw at my very first trust council meeting back in 2011

[2:05:42] Voice 13: was whether or not we took a whole bunch of grant money from the government to

[2:05:47] Voice 13: um update our policy statement and i was one of the people that said no and we didn't get it done

[2:05:54] Voice 13: so i take that on the other hand we would never have put in the very important very necessary

[2:06:01] Voice 13: First Nations component that we're going to hopefully be looking at soon. So, you know,

[2:06:06] Voice 13: there's a side to that. But in the last term, again, I can't tell you enough how impactful

[2:06:15] Voice 13: moving to online environment and the pandemic had on our ability to get work done. And the

[2:06:22] Voice 13: policy statement was front and center in that. Yes, it took a long time. We didn't get very far.

[2:06:28] Voice 13: are. We did in some ways, but we were up against a huge, huge challenge. And then a different level

[2:06:36] Voice 13: of expectations. And I want to bring that to the upcoming term is the expectations for our

[2:06:43] Voice 13: consensus. We are going to disagree, but we have to come to a point where we can hold those

[2:06:49] Voice 13: disagreements and move forward. And also this expectation for how much our communities have,

[2:06:57] Voice 13: say in these documents, because although that's important, we cannot be milling around trying to

[2:07:05] Voice 13: gain consensus from Salt Spring, Gambier, Thetis. We're just not structured that way. We had an

[2:07:12] Voice 13: opportunity to go to first reading last term. We decided not to. That's fine. This is where we're

[2:07:18] Voice 13: at now. And I am really looking forward to the change in direction that we had, which was make

[2:07:24] Voice 13: make this a communicable document, make it something people can read. So it went from a

[2:07:30] Voice 13: very targeted review to let's turn it into something people can pick up, read, and it makes

[2:07:36] Voice 13: sense. And a final thing, I'm a little concerned about how we're starting to focus on the expert

[2:07:41] Voice 13: scientists. I'm married to an expert scientist. It is not black and white. I've seen them argue

[2:07:49] Voice 13: argue at Supreme Court level, the expert against expert, there is, especially in biology and life

[2:07:55] Voice 13: processes, there is no one answer. So I think we really have to watch how we use those terms. Thank

[2:08:03] Voice 13: you. Chair

[2:08:09] Voice 8: Luckham. Trustee

[2:08:11] Trustee Luckham: Luckham. Thank you. Actually, I want to circle back to Joe's

[2:08:17] Trustee Luckham: question. I'd like to answer Joe's question. And the answer is no. It's not going to solve

[2:08:24] Trustee Luckham: the Gordian knot. It's going to move the dial. And I think that with respect to this whole

[2:08:30] Trustee Luckham: conversation we've been having here, what the trust policy statement actually says is certain,

[2:08:37] Trustee Luckham: don't take me wrong, it's important, but it's almost not important actually what the content

[2:08:43] Trustee Luckham: is. The governance is how Islands Trust implements or manages or directs what the policy statement

[2:08:50] Trustee Luckham: says, not what it actually says. And so, you know, there's, and in fact, what the 32 recommendations

[2:08:58] Trustee Luckham: that are being embraced in the new draft is actually going to create a much more whittled

[2:09:04] Trustee Luckham: down policy statement of which we need to move to dialogue two or three major things.

[2:09:11] Trustee Luckham: and the other things we need to have more conversation about and this governance process

[2:09:14] Trustee Luckham: is about how to have those conversations so i'm right behind tim on this and i think the answer

[2:09:20] Trustee Luckham: to joe's question is no the policy statement whatever the next version of it looks like

[2:09:25] Trustee Luckham: isn't going to solve all of the problems um because as again as tim has pointed out this

[2:09:31] Trustee Luckham: should be an iterative process over time and those issues that we need to resolve further

[2:09:35] Trustee Luckham: there needs to be resolved over time and i will also say that science is a is a profession of

[2:09:41] Trustee Luckham: proving and disproving things continuously and so we have to be careful about that we have to accept

[2:09:46] Trustee Luckham: what we know today

[2:09:48] Voice 8: that's all um we seem to be getting

[2:09:56] Voice 9: away from this governance review report

[2:09:59] Voice 9: and getting into details about the policy statement that we haven't shared we haven't read

[2:10:07] Voice 9: some of you have a background in history with it but and are much more familiar with it but

[2:10:13] Voice 9: um i think we need to be careful about going down those rabbit holes so um i got two more hands up

[2:10:21] Voice 9: and then i need to come back to um we're at quarter after 11 we're going to break at noon

[2:10:27] Voice 9: for lunch so um we need to have something to accomplish i think to think about over the lunch

[2:10:35] Voice 9: break and decide how much longer we want for this meeting jamie trustee harris sorry thank you chair

[2:10:43] Voice 8: giddy i'm

[2:10:47] Voice 3: not i'm not frightened of uh correct science or experts being used and the only way

[2:10:52] Voice 3: i would be frightened is if uh perhaps i'd maybe been using the wrong science and didn't want it

[2:10:57] Voice 3: disproved um i'm not suggesting that we um craft the policy statement here i'll just reiterate that

[2:11:04] Voice 3: that once again, but I think that we could definitely

[2:11:08] Voice 3: be sending a message about correct science.

[2:11:11] Voice 3: I don't see that as shaping the policy statement

[2:11:15] Voice 3: in any way, maybe I'll

[2:11:23] Voice 3: just, I'll leave it there for now.

[2:11:24] Voice 8: So thanks.

[2:11:27] Voice 9: Trustee Bernardo.

[2:11:30] Trustee Bernardo: Right, I think chair it's fair and appropriate

[2:11:35] Trustee Bernardo: that you keep bringing us back to the matter at hand,

[2:11:40] Trustee Bernardo: which is let's stay focused on the fact

[2:11:42] Trustee Bernardo: that we're the kind of the process machine here,

[2:11:45] Trustee Bernardo: not the content machine.

[2:11:48] Trustee Bernardo: Having said that, just very quickly in passing,

[2:11:51] Trustee Bernardo: what Trustee Harris has said,

[2:11:53] Trustee Bernardo: sounds like to me a process issue,

[2:11:55] Trustee Bernardo: which is what I'm hearing him say is to the extent,

[2:11:59] Trustee Bernardo: or he's suggesting, I think,

[2:12:01] Trustee Bernardo: that whatever the policy statement draft says in the spring,

[2:12:07] Trustee Bernardo: there should be something in there to the effect

[2:12:10] Trustee Bernardo: that says to the extent that our planning

[2:12:13] Trustee Bernardo: or policies or bylaws are justified by science,

[2:12:17] Trustee Bernardo: it needs to be scrupulously the best science

[2:12:20] Trustee Bernardo: that's available at the time.

[2:12:22] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, that's a process statement.

[2:12:23] Trustee Bernardo: That's a directive that says when you're going

[2:12:28] Trustee Bernardo: in that direction, use these criteria.

[2:12:33] Trustee Bernardo: Um, and, and with respect to the, the, another process issue with respect to the, the difficulty

[2:12:41] Trustee Bernardo: of this policy statement getting through, well, the reactions that provoked to the public,

[2:12:47] Trustee Bernardo: the confusion over it, uh, it seems to me that it's so important the way it, it intersects

[2:12:54] Trustee Bernardo: and guides essentially what the local planning function is going to be.

[2:12:57] Trustee Bernardo: the trust council has to be very respectful of the democratic aspect of that again this is again

[2:13:07] Trustee Bernardo: not a content thing it's a process thing and if trust council gets to the point where it has a

[2:13:14] Trustee Bernardo: draft where it can get behind the draft you have a consensus say yeah this looks like it

[2:13:19] Trustee Bernardo: uh given its importance given its history i stumbled across something in a policy the other

[2:13:27] Trustee Bernardo: day which like i'm sorry i can't refer to but there's provision there for referenda if necessary

[2:13:33] Trustee Bernardo: and it seems to me that if this is actually something that and i'm not necessarily advocating

[2:13:39] Trustee Bernardo: i'm throwing it out as one of those things that we can consider and i do not want to throw out

[2:13:46] Trustee Bernardo: another red herring for us to sort of spin our wheels talking about it but it is like i just

[2:13:52] Trustee Bernardo: want us to be open-minded about how we resolve some of these things and it seems to me that's

[2:13:55] Trustee Bernardo: an alternative or a method a process that might be helpful in resolving the thing it's way too

[2:14:03] Trustee Bernardo: premature to think about that now because we're nowhere close we don't have a we don't have

[2:14:08] Trustee Bernardo: anything to bring there so that's on that side on the policy statement side of it uh back to the

[2:14:14] Trustee Bernardo: work plan issue um i'm wondering if in the work plan that we're proposing and if i understand you

[2:14:21] Trustee Bernardo: correctly chair uh you're hoping out of this meeting to develop at least uh the basics of

[2:14:27] Trustee Bernardo: a work plan that we propose to trust council say look this is the direction we're going to head

[2:14:33] Trustee Bernardo: like unless you guys pipe up like we think this is what it ought to be can we have your comments um

[2:14:40] Trustee Bernardo: i'm wondering if we can be a bit more specific about that with respect to the strategic stuff

[2:14:44] Trustee Bernardo: up if part of that proposal would be a very specific statement to the fact that we recommend

[2:14:54] Trustee Bernardo: that the FPC work with the director of admin services and whoever else should be in there

[2:15:00] Trustee Bernardo: I don't know I'd like it might be other committees as well to develop a corporate planning process

[2:15:04] Trustee Bernardo: that meets best practices for an enterprise of the size and character of islands trust

[2:15:11] Trustee Bernardo: us. I'm not proposing as a resolution. I'm throwing this out for, to get a bit more specific

[2:15:17] Trustee Bernardo: about the work plan, because we're not going to do the corporate planning process. We might have

[2:15:21] Trustee Bernardo: some input into what it looks like from a governance point of view, but I think what we can

[2:15:26] Trustee Bernardo: do quite immediately is set the fuse on, like to say, go to trust council, say, yeah, this part of

[2:15:34] Trustee Bernardo: the governance review, yeah, we're behind it. It makes sense. We should have a corporate planning

[2:15:38] Trustee Bernardo: planning process, get on it, right?

[2:15:42] Trustee Bernardo: And we'll work with whatever team is doing it.

[2:15:46] Trustee Bernardo: But you know, that's a concrete thing

[2:15:48] Trustee Bernardo: we can get started like right away.

[2:15:50] Trustee Bernardo: And I can tell you from the FPC side,

[2:15:53] Trustee Bernardo: we're kind of starving for that

[2:15:55] Trustee Bernardo: because in the next budget cycle,

[2:15:58] Trustee Bernardo: that would be really helpful.

[2:16:01] Voice 8: Thank you.

[2:16:03] Voice 8: Trustee Harris.

[2:16:07] Voice 8: Thanks Chair Giddey, I'll

[2:16:09] Voice 3: keep this short.

[2:16:10] Voice 3: This is in response to Kate Louise's mention

[2:16:13] Voice 3: mention of the communities and separate islands not getting caught up with maybe listening to

[2:16:19] Voice 3: to them I hope I'm not taking this the wrong way but I would think that that should be something

[2:16:25] Voice 3: that we do focus on is what the communities are saying and I would think that a stance

[2:16:32] Voice 3: otherwise would look you know aggressive and community's eyes from the islands trust so

[2:16:40] Voice 3: let's leave it at that thank you rising

[2:16:44] Voice 9: to the bait trustee stamford yeah um

[2:16:50] Voice 8: can't hear you

[2:16:53] Voice 13: of a expectation process of of public engagement in it i think we are doing our best to try and

[2:17:00] Voice 13: get out there what i'm trying to say is we are being stymied by our own island's priorities

[2:17:06] Voice 13: priorities, and some of those can be polar opposites. So how do we incorporate that into

[2:17:12] Voice 13: a policy statement that allows for those differences? And that's all I'm trying to say,

[2:17:19] Voice 13: and that sometimes we do have to take that big decision ourselves, and we can't get a consensus

[2:17:25] Voice 13: from our communities. So that's all I'm

[2:17:27] Voice 8: trying to say. Okay, thank you. Point taken. So

[2:17:36] Voice 9: here's a

[2:17:38] Voice 9: suggestion if what is in the upper right hand corner of this grid is section three mandate

[2:17:46] Voice 9: the policy statement strategic planning meeting process and policies that are in place

[2:17:53] Voice 9: local planning ocp updates and tools and i've i've moved over you'll be happy to know lee i've

[2:18:03] Voice 9: moved over the secretariat into uh research um it seems to me that what we've talked about today

[2:18:09] Voice 9: and what we're going to be reporting to the trust council very soon is that we want to get

[2:18:16] Voice 9: as much information as we can collated with respect to research that's already been done

[2:18:23] Voice 9: about section 3 mandate and we're creating a library on that that we're waiting until

[2:18:29] Voice 9: until possibly June in terms of the process from the planning committee and the executive committee

[2:18:38] Voice 9: in terms of an update on the policy statement and we're going to be trying to work on setting up

[2:18:45] Voice 9: some sort of suggestions and ideas about starting to work on a strategic plan that we think that's

[2:18:51] Voice 9: a priority that these other two pieces have to be firmed up if not in place and agreed to

[2:18:57] Voice 9: but we need to the priority has to be for the organization to come up with some sort of a

[2:19:03] Voice 9: long-range strategic or business plan we're also going to be collecting and looking at

[2:19:11] Voice 9: the existing policies to see what we've got in terms of meeting process and see if there's any

[2:19:16] Voice 9: recommendations to try and make it easier for us to have these kinds of discussions

[2:19:24] Voice 9: and similar research with respect to secretariat and whether or not we've already got that existing or we need to come up with some other plan and if so what the requirements of that are budget wise and everything else.

[2:19:43] Voice 9: The last item was the local planning OCP and all of the tools that are necessary to make that whole process more effective and efficient.

[2:19:53] Voice 9: And that seems to me that's Annex A, or sorry, one. And I'm not quite sure what to do in terms of this committee, trying to work on that and whether or not that is something for programs.

[2:20:12] Voice 9: That was the other question that I had. There's other committees that are working on, and not only is there overlap between all of these subjects, but there's other overlap between committees.

[2:20:21] Voice 9: so we've heard about um planning and executive committee working on policy um i would think that

[2:20:29] Voice 9: the first nations um committee if it's up and running is going to be working on representation

[2:20:34] Voice 9: on trust and or the trust council and financial planning comes into a lot of this uh on a regular

[2:20:43] Voice 9: basis so um are we going to try and and pick the brains of those committees and and take advantage

[2:20:50] Voice 9: of the work that they're doing as well.

[2:20:52] Voice 9: So I lay that out for comment.

[2:20:54] Voice 9: We've got another half an hour before the lunch break.

[2:21:00] Voice 9: Trustee Luckum.

[2:21:01] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I just wanted to add to your list there

[2:21:03] Trustee Luckham: because I didn't hear it mentioned is administrative bylaws

[2:21:07] Trustee Luckham: and that's been raised in some of the conversation

[2:21:10] Trustee Luckham: amongst the comments that we received from the group.

[2:21:14] Trustee Luckham: That administrative bylaws need to be something

[2:21:16] Trustee Luckham: we should analyze if those are the barriers

[2:21:18] Trustee Luckham: to more functional governance

[2:21:20] Voice 9: right is that the same as um the policies that are um joe had

[2:21:28] Voice 9: mentioned in his critique and the meeting process yeah

[2:21:33] Trustee Luckham: well meeting bylaw number 101 is i think

[2:21:35] Trustee Luckham: that's a bylaw not a policy

[2:21:37] Voice 9: okay okay all right so we're talking about the same thing using

[2:21:41] Voice 9: different language and yours is probably more accurate but wait a sec get your mute they are

[2:21:49] Trustee Luckham: are different and maybe through the chair staff might advise us on the difference between policy

[2:21:55] Trustee Luckham: and administrative bylaws um

[2:21:58] Voice 10: well madam chair um in for the conversation you're having i think it's

[2:22:03] Voice 10: a distinction without a difference these are things within your purview whether they're in a

[2:22:07] Voice 10: bylaw or it's an administrative policy david will refine my comments a little bit but i think that

[2:22:13] Voice 10: all of those things are how you decide um how you want to conduct things and so i would if you're

[2:22:18] Voice 10: looking at that suite you would look at the bylaws and the policies and see how they work together so

[2:22:24] Voice 10: that would be my initial um thinking there and

[2:22:28] Voice 2: if i may add to that through the chair

[2:22:31] Voice 2: yeah so yeah the policies and bylaws effectively have a very similar approach however the bylaws

[2:22:38] Voice 2: some of them you must have uh so you have to have meeting procedure bylaws um but obviously you can

[2:22:45] Voice 2: change what you have in them and bylaws are enforceable so if people believe that you're

[2:22:51] Voice 2: doing something contrary to your bylaw then you could be challenged on that as well right i'd

[2:22:57] Voice 2: just like to also comment and i think chair you you mentioned this uh there is some overlap as

[2:23:03] Voice 2: you've pointed out with some of the other committees um so there's anything we can do

[2:23:06] Voice 2: to help you to understand what some of the roles of the other committees are and how you could

[2:23:11] Voice 2: uh work with them or where you could do something a little different or complementary um definitely

[2:23:18] Voice 2: let us know that okay thanks

[2:23:20] Voice 2: trustee

[2:23:23] Voice 9: patrick well

[2:23:24] Trustee Patrick: it's on that note um the annex one i can tell you

[2:23:28] Trustee Patrick: the regional planning committee met was it last week i think it was last week i'm losing track of

[2:23:33] Trustee Patrick: time um we did direct staff to uh report to us on their sort of their take of annex one and kind of

[2:23:44] Trustee Patrick: what what's already underway or completed in their minds so the regional planning committee has taken

[2:23:51] Trustee Patrick: that step

[2:23:52] Voice 5: all

[2:23:56] Voice 9: right so um sounds to me like there's research and information that we've

[2:24:02] Voice 9: we've asked to get the confidential password protected stuff on section three and the research

[2:24:10] Voice 9: that's been done on that and the bylaws and the policies with respect to administrative

[2:24:15] Voice 9: meeting process and somehow or other secretariat research anything else madam

[2:24:30] Voice 11: chair yes

[2:24:31] Voice 9: i'm

[2:24:32] Voice 10: just wondering whether you want to start getting it you know do you want us to write this up

[2:24:36] Voice 10: on the screen does everyone got this all in their minds um or do you want us to um

[2:24:43] Voice 10: get something you know lori could just sort of you could direct her to have the

[2:24:48] Voice 10: on screen at any point if you want to just offer that so that we have clarity moving forward

[2:24:54] Voice 10: um and as you uh you know for instance take a look at bylaws and administrative policies

[2:25:02] Voice 10: well that is an immense piece of work so how that how that gets parsed out um is how we can assist

[2:25:12] Voice 10: you and the things you need to do and the resources you have available for you to do it if

[2:25:19] Voice 10: if you hone in those things we can start assisting you with that

[2:25:23] Voice 9: um so the um the suggestion was to

[2:25:29] Voice 9: to have a graphic up of the the grid chart that I've been talking about or the list of things

[2:25:36] Voice 9: that are in the upper right hand corner well

[2:25:38] Voice 10: just for you know only if the committee wants it but

[2:25:41] Voice 9: to

[2:25:42] Voice 10: have something

[2:25:43] Voice 9: you're talking about is that helpful to people or have you been making notes

[2:25:47] Voice 9: Peter's got a thumb up

[2:25:48] Voice 2: yes that would be helpful thank you

[2:25:51] Voice 9: Laurie up for it or

[2:25:55] Voice 10: maybe we can almost

[2:25:55] Voice 10: do it over lunch um oh

[2:25:57] Voice 9: good plan you know to take maybe

[2:25:59] Voice 10: what you've got and throw the four or five

[2:26:02] Voice 10: five things out and then you can start to refine your thinking from that point

[2:26:04] Voice 6: okay and

[2:26:05] Voice 10: not to say

[2:26:06] Voice 10: you can't go back and get pick up anything else and the only other thing i would say is as you

[2:26:10] Voice 10: contemplate your work cross-referencing to other committees so that you ask them a question they

[2:26:16] Voice 10: ask you a question back really think that one over um that's a lot of um there's a there's a lot of

[2:26:27] Voice 10: administrivia associated with you asking the various committees questions and you know they

[2:26:32] Voice 10: might be doing things or you might ask them to go do something but to establish dialogues on a

[2:26:38] Voice 10: consistent basis unless you have a great process which hasn't been contemplated in this discussion

[2:26:43] Voice 10: of back and forth between all of the different committees you should know what their major

[2:26:47] Voice 10: projects are so i think that's a research piece that we should get to you um and you could make

[2:26:53] Voice 10: suggestions on how they refine that uh fpc could go take an element of the corporate plan and begin

[2:26:59] Voice 10: maybe some initial discussions sounds like um rpc is contemplating the last part of

[2:27:05] Voice 10: the um the land use planning function those are great um but i just offer you that from just a

[2:27:10] Voice 10: working on it perspective which admittedly we haven't gotten to but thank you mr baylor

[2:27:19] Voice 9: marler sorry yeah

[2:27:21] Voice 2: no thank you um i just wanted to just check in with the chair and the committee so

[2:27:27] Voice 2: So I heard you say, I think, three action items

[2:27:30] Voice 2: that we're looking for us to provide.

[2:27:33] Voice 2: I'm only aware of one resolution that you've done.

[2:27:36] Voice 2: So I would encourage you to direct staff by resolution.

[2:27:41] Voice 2: J.O., you got to

[2:27:42] Voice 10: agree with me?

[2:27:45] Voice 10: If it's discrete, yes.

[2:27:46] Voice 10: If it's discrete work, yes.

[2:27:48] Voice 10: But I don't think the committee has to do every single thing by resolution.

[2:27:53] Voice 10: I think that they can ask for some general stuff.

[2:27:56] Voice 10: But yeah, if it's discreet, absolutely.

[2:28:02] Voice 9: That's a fine distinction

[2:28:03] Voice 9: that I need help with, but all right.

[2:28:10] Voice 8: So, Trustee Bernardo.

[2:28:17] Trustee Bernardo: It's a small point.

[2:28:18] Trustee Bernardo: I'm just riffing off what was just discussed there between, you know, Mr. Marler and the CAO.

[2:28:26] Trustee Bernardo: So, you know, one of the things, if we can actually model efficiency, is to get our own heads around this distinction between when we actually need a resolution or when we can simply tell staff, look, you know, you've heard us all say this.

[2:28:48] Trustee Bernardo: Everybody's behind it.

[2:28:49] Trustee Bernardo: We just want X, Y, and Z done.

[2:28:51] Trustee Bernardo: Please help us out.

[2:28:53] Trustee Bernardo: I don't think that needs a resolution.

[2:28:55] Trustee Bernardo: I'm not sure that business about I mean I'm happy enough with the resolution we did with the legal opinions the legal opinions are a little tricky and I think it is helpful to have a resolution that warns all of us to sort of be careful about it.

[2:29:08] Trustee Bernardo: But I think for most of the things we're doing research and things that we need staff to do and that kind of stuff I mean we're just going to bog ourselves down and we're just repeating, frankly, the practices that have gotten in the way in the past, if we can at all reduce the number of resolutions down to the bare minimum.

[2:29:26] Trustee Bernardo: so that they are actually properly things

[2:29:28] Trustee Bernardo: that require that sort of kind of formal decision.

[2:29:32] Trustee Bernardo: And think of ourselves more as a working group.

[2:29:34] Trustee Bernardo: I think that would be more productive for us.

[2:29:36] Trustee Bernardo: And in models, I think the kind of direction

[2:29:37] Trustee Bernardo: we would like the other committees

[2:29:39] Trustee Bernardo: and the organization to go to become more effective.

[2:29:41] Trustee Bernardo: Just a small point.

[2:29:43] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[2:29:44] Voice 9: I think that's, from my perspective,

[2:29:46] Voice 9: that's the process we just went through.

[2:29:47] Voice 9: So Mr. Marler asked whether or not

[2:29:49] Voice 9: we needed to have a resolution.

[2:29:51] Voice 9: And Russ said, you know, if it's discreet or not,

[2:29:55] Voice 9: and they can help us make that distinction.

[2:29:56] Voice 9: So we can clarify what it is.

[2:30:00] Voice 9: that we want and need and they can tell us whether or not they need a resolution and whether or not

[2:30:04] Voice 9: it just goes on the work plan and we can muddle through yeah

[2:30:08] Voice 10: madam chair sorry to interrupt if

[2:30:11] Voice 10: there's a significant resource requirement there's criteria number one so that would mean we're going

[2:30:18] Voice 10: to take work from somewhere else and we're going to direct it here that a resolution's needed you're

[2:30:22] Voice 10: making a financial corporate um decision um if it's just um get us some stuff and it's obvious

[2:30:30] Voice 10: to everybody um we need it by a certain time less so less so what happens six months later is

[2:30:38] Voice 10: everyone's forgotten unless there's a resolution quite often everyone's kind of forgotten what was

[2:30:42] Voice 10: meant um when the timeline was and all that kind of stuff so we don't this body we should not be

[2:30:48] Voice 10: over-administrated um you know by definition you're testing that ground um when you need to

[2:30:54] Voice 10: when we need to redirect direct resources and be specific in the outcome that tends to be the

[2:31:00] Voice 10: resolution criteria threshold that's that's about it i'm

[2:31:05] Voice 9: going to count on you and and um david to

[2:31:07] Voice 9: sort out when we need one or the other

[2:31:10] Voice 10: david david yeah

[2:31:11] Voice 2: yeah if i may i agree with the

[2:31:14] Voice 2: see you on that comment and the one other I would say is if there's some sort of disagreement or

[2:31:21] Voice 2: you're not sure that there is consensus of the committee then a resolution would help so that

[2:31:26] Voice 2: it's just to make sure that we know we're providing exactly what you're asking for.

[2:31:33] Voice 9: Trustee Middleton.

[2:31:36] Trustee Middleton: Thank you chair excuse me yeah just I think echo what Trustee Bernardo said

[2:31:42] Trustee Middleton: said about potentially kicking off some development of the corporate plan because

[2:31:46] Trustee Middleton: we seem to have a general consensus on that I would suggest so just you know a couple items here

[2:31:52] Trustee Middleton: that we might discuss possibly after lunch as to how we kick them off and how we how we

[2:31:59] Trustee Middleton: guide them or or or give instruction in terms of what our expectations are so perhaps we could

[2:32:07] Trustee Middleton: you know corporate plan we could discuss uh this this afternoon but i think one of the items that

[2:32:14] Trustee Middleton: i'm thinking you know how can we be most useful as a committee and i've heard discussion around

[2:32:21] Trustee Middleton: obviously um the policy statement and the fact that it will eventually be going to council and

[2:32:28] Trustee Middleton: is there anything we can do to help facilitate the discussion from a process perspective so to me

[2:32:34] Trustee Middleton: that circles back to what i think we talked about the last meeting and what we talked about the

[2:32:38] Trustee Middleton: start of this meeting is we're probably in a place where we could actually look at our meeting bylaws

[2:32:43] Trustee Middleton: bible 101 specifically take some of the research that um the chair is doing with the cao maybe we

[2:32:50] Trustee Middleton: prioritize that and speed that up and actually see if we can actually introduce some alternative

[2:32:56] Trustee Middleton: modes of meeting that could perhaps promote the deliberative conversation

[2:33:00] Trustee Middleton: that we know is going to have to happen if the if the discussion of the trust policy statement

[2:33:06] Trustee Middleton: has even a half a chance of being successful at the council level so i i would suggest we just

[2:33:11] Trustee Middleton: dive right into that bylaw 101 and see if we can revise it with some of the research

[2:33:15] Trustee Middleton: obviously we're not revising it we're going to recommend revisions uh to council but

[2:33:19] Trustee Middleton: that to me seems perhaps one of the ways we could be most helpful to the larger group right now is

[2:33:24] Trustee Middleton: if we dive into that work and um um so chair i'm not sure how where that fits in prioritization

[2:33:33] Trustee Middleton: or if we're actually talking about the elements of work plan now but i think that would be very

[2:33:37] Trustee Middleton: the sooner we could do that i think the more useful for the the whole organization that would

[2:33:42] Trustee Middleton: be thank you it's

[2:33:46] Voice 9: on the list trustee peterson yeah

[2:33:50] Voice 16: thank you chair uh i just wanted to uh uh

[2:33:53] Voice 16: speak briefly to one of Trustee Middleton's points there

[2:33:58] Voice 16: in terms of a process that can allow more time

[2:34:04] Voice 16: for deliberation and underutilized resource of Trust Council

[2:34:10] Voice 16: is the use of special meetings.

[2:34:12] Voice 16: I'd suggest that that's one of the things we should look at

[2:34:17] Voice 16: in terms of potential suggestions to the process

[2:34:20] Voice 16: for Trust Council.

[2:34:22] Voice 16: it's existing uh it's underutilized and i think for certain discussions especially if we want to

[2:34:27] Voice 16: have uh space for a lot of deliberation and discussion uh it's underutilized and i think

[2:34:33] Voice 16: we need to keep in mind that exists already and we are not using

[2:34:38] Voice 8: it as much as we could thank you

[2:34:42] Voice 8: trustee scott thank you i'm

[2:34:46] Voice 4: sitting here with the policy statement in front of me and um

[2:34:49] Voice 4: And I was on the program committee in the last term there, and I'm wondering if this is the kind of governance question that we might consider going into this.

[2:35:00] Voice 4: And that is, the directive policies, I think, is something that got certain of them anyway in the last term, got a lot of people really upset on the islands and at the local trust committee.

[2:35:12] Voice 4: So I'm wondering if, and I know the people on Burnby Island, you start trying to tell them what to do, and that's what a directive policy does, basically.

[2:35:21] Voice 4: It says you have to do this.

[2:35:22] Voice 4: I wonder if that's something we put some words around about what those directive policies might look like, or is that beyond our, does that go to the program committee?

[2:35:36] Voice 4: That's my question.

[2:35:37] Voice 4: I'm just kind of wondering.

[2:35:38] Voice 4: Program, Peter, I see you're saying.

[2:35:43] it

[2:35:44] Voice 9: sounds like wordsmithing and it sounds if it's um guidance for local um trust committees

[2:35:51] Voice 9: it sounds like that is something that the um rpc has referred to staff in terms of the

[2:35:57] Voice 9: recommendations for annex one so if that is

[2:36:01] Voice 9: um trustee patrick is that something that you think

[2:36:06] Voice 9: is going to be covered in that and we can wait for that no no

[2:36:10] Trustee Patrick: and annex one is uh local land use

[2:36:12] Trustee Patrick: planning so it's the tools uh that we do planning the trust programs committee is the policy statement

[2:36:21] Voice 9: okay madam

[2:36:22] Voice 11: chair i can answer the question if you wish thanks

[2:36:24] Voice 9: okay yeah

[2:36:26] Voice 10: um so that is contemplated

[2:36:27] Voice 10: by trust programs committee they've been looking at the strength and weaknesses and the relative

[2:36:31] Voice 10: of utility of um using uh directive policies over the last couple of years and that has been part

[2:36:39] Voice 10: of their ongoing discussions and is being reflected in the current document we'll see whether it

[2:36:43] Voice 10: it hits the mark but that's the committee that's currently undertaking that work okay

[2:36:49] Voice 8: thanks trustee

[2:36:55] Voice 8: peterson your hand is up now it's down all right um so

[2:37:08] Voice 9: we've got quarter to 12. um

[2:37:10] Voice 9: How about we break a little bit early, take a half an hour for lunch, and Laurie, does

[2:37:16] Voice 9: that give you enough time to work on some sort of a graph and get some food?

[2:37:21] Voice 9: Yes, I've got something started.

[2:37:23] Voice 9: Shall I email it to you?

[2:37:25] Voice 9: Okay.

[2:37:26] Voice 9: All right.

[2:37:28] Voice 9: Anything that we need to cover before we break for lunch?

[2:37:34] Voice 9: Think about it all.

[2:37:37] Voice 9: Contemplate everything.

[2:37:37] Voice 9: Have a good lunch, and we'll meet back in half an hour, say quarter after 12.

[2:37:44] Voice 8: Good. Okay, thanks everybody. We're doing great.

[3:10:13] Voice 8: lori are you online we're

[3:10:18] Voice 14: broadcasting and recording uh

[3:10:21] Voice 11: it's live right now

[3:10:22] Voice 14: it is and we

[3:10:24] Voice 11: do that through the lunch break it's it remains live it doesn't stop

[3:10:28] Voice 8: and

[3:10:29] Voice 11: we can't stop it it

[3:10:33] Voice 8: yeah

[3:10:34] Voice 11: okay um are you okay with

[3:10:40] Voice 10: sort of trying to

[3:10:41] Voice 10: put that together you're

[3:10:42] Trustee Patrick: broadcasting live

[3:10:43] Trustee Patrick: I

[3:10:44] Voice 10: know, but we're stuck with where we're at. But we'll, I'm just checking with Lori in terms of a schematic or getting a sort of a simple list. Is that, does that work?

[3:10:57] Voice 14: Got it.

[3:10:58] Voice 10: Okay, beauty.

[3:11:01] Voice 8: Thank you, everyone.

[3:11:14] Voice 8: Lori, did you get my email back with the graph?

[3:11:19] Voice 14: I did. I'm trying to do the importance line on the side there, but that can

[3:11:25] Voice 8: be added in later.

[3:11:26] Voice 14: Yeah, well.

[3:11:26] Voice 14: well half

[3:11:35] Voice 8: an hour is not a lot of time not

[3:11:38] Voice 11: for the boutique lunches that i create no

[3:11:42] Voice 9: i made a fish soup yesterday that's absolutely fabulous so i've got leftovers

[3:11:47] Voice 9: i barely got

[3:11:48] Voice 9: it heated oh

[3:11:52] Voice 11: you've done a lot this morning yep

[3:11:55] Voice 13: do you have like extra slow

[3:11:58] Voice 13: electricity over on bowen or something uh judy why well everything you can't boil the water and

[3:12:06] Voice 13: the the soup is taking a while to warm up oh i

[3:12:10] Voice 9: just did um i get sidetracked so i don't get it

[3:12:14] Voice 9: the first priority and

[3:12:16] Voice 9: then it's like oh okay i did the chart with laurie

[3:12:23] Voice 9: that took up the first 15 minutes

[3:12:26] Voice 8: oh my god oh there it is nice well done appreciate having

[3:12:36] Voice 8: having the chart available. Thank you. Thank you, Lori. And

[3:12:46] Voice 8: it's easier than trying to remember. Imagine it. Are we all

[3:12:55] Voice 8: back? Is everybody back? I can't tell my screen. We got a quorum

[3:13:31] Voice 8: 12345. I

[3:13:33] Voice 9: think we do.

[3:13:34] Voice 8: Okay, let's call

[3:13:35] Voice 8: the meeting back to

[3:13:35] Voice 8: order. So next steps. Can't get a bigger screen here. At any

[3:13:59] Voice 9: What's left on the agenda is, and what I had originally thought we would do after lunch

[3:14:07] Voice 9: would be to work on the draft schedule and the work program.

[3:14:16] Voice 9: Once we have finished with next steps in terms of if we can use this graph.

[3:14:23] Voice 9: so we've got um an hour and a half roughly if we use the flow up to the two o'clock

[3:14:33] Voice 9: which should should be plenty of time we don't might not even need the full amount

[3:14:39] Voice 9: um how do people feel about that process that timeline

[3:14:48] Trustee Bernardo: sounds reasonable but is the idea that

[3:14:52] Trustee Bernardo: that we're going to go through this grid to discuss it?

[3:15:01] Voice 9: Well, yes, if we want to tweak it

[3:15:03] Voice 9: and move some things around.

[3:15:06] Voice 9: And primarily if we're focusing on urgent high priority,

[3:15:10] Voice 9: what steps we're going to take.

[3:15:11] Voice 9: Seems to me that it's information gathering at this point

[3:15:15] Voice 9: for all of the things that are up in there.

[3:15:18] Voice 9: Some other committees are working on some things.

[3:15:20] Voice 9: So first step would be to tweak it and then to sort out who's going to do what following the next steps.

[3:15:33] Voice 8: So do you want to tweak it?

[3:15:35] Voice 8: Yes.

[3:15:36] Voice 8: Yeah.

[3:15:39] Voice 9: Okay.

[3:15:41] Voice 8: Grant,

[3:15:42] Voice 9: Scott, you're the first, you're the fastest with your hand up.

[3:15:46] Voice 4: That's unusual.

[3:15:47] Voice 4: But one thing I would do is I would move, I think communications is urgent high priority.

[3:15:54] Voice 4: I mean, I think it's fundamental to everything we're doing up above there.

[3:15:58] Voice 4: So I would trade it for the secretariat research.

[3:16:02] Voice 4: I don't think that's quite as critical as, you know, I think it'll come along.

[3:16:07] Voice 4: But until we get some of the other things done, I don't think the secretariat's really going to do that right away.

[3:16:15] Voice 9: With communications, I had a question.

[3:16:18] Voice 9: The new staff position, how is that going to improve the situation?

[3:16:25] Voice 9: that's

[3:16:27] Voice 8: a good question well

[3:16:30] Voice 11: there's uh madam chair there's

[3:16:32] Voice 10: three positions contemplated

[3:16:33] Voice 10: uh there's a financial uh mid-management position that's on the table there's a meeting

[3:16:39] Voice 10: administrator the meeting administrator is more functional technical um organizing position it's

[3:16:47] Voice 10: it's not a communications out is it associated with communications yes because it allows you

[3:16:53] Voice 10: to continue to have the transparency of public meetings being recorded and or live so it functions

[3:17:01] Voice 10: and it it ultimately contributes to the communications in the islands trust but it's

[3:17:06] Voice 10: not doing specific communications work and then the administrative position is interior

[3:17:14] Voice 10: administration to the trust assisting with protocol agreements with first nations communities

[3:17:18] Voice 10: communities, assist with the policy review of the trust so it's not directly associated with communications.

[3:17:25] Voice 10: I think in the document, when the notion of communications and advocacy are put against each other, what is that relationship.

[3:17:34] Voice 10: What should be more emphasis, has there been too much emphasis on advocacy with not the attendant communications that's needed.

[3:17:42] Voice 10: finding that balance and then the resources would follow where um trust council wants to go with

[3:17:49] Voice 10: that how do we communicate the story out to the public about what the trust does um right now or

[3:17:55] Voice 10: in the future okay

[3:17:58] Voice 9: i put it there it is urgent and it's important but we need to get these i think

[3:18:04] Voice 9: we need to get these other things sorted out a little bit more before we figure out what our

[3:18:08] Voice 9: communication strategy is going to be um so that's my logic around that sorry i'm

[3:18:16] Voice 9: ignoring names um trustee stamford yes

[3:18:21] Voice 13: i i have to agree with uh trustee grant i think

[3:18:24] Voice 13: communications has to be moved into a different uh area um all of this is goes back to how we

[3:18:34] Voice 13: communicate not just with each other but outward towards our communities um i think the difficulty

[3:18:41] Voice 13: is it's just a a single statement sitting there there's no context to it so we need to clarify

[3:18:48] Voice 13: uh in what terms we're talking about communications um i i'm not comfortable with how we've defined

[3:18:57] Voice 13: find these um first nations um it shouldn't be a lower priority i i sort of determined all this

[3:19:07] Voice 13: inability and doability and to me um if there's another box that just says sort of outside of

[3:19:13] Voice 13: our jurisdiction but urgent important we just can't do anything about it right now so that's

[3:19:19] Voice 13: what i would like to to see is uh unfortunately a fifth box anyway that's my suggestion because i

[3:19:27] Voice 13: I don't want to see that written out as lower priority.

[3:19:32] Voice 9: Okay. So it's a choice of words.

[3:19:35] Voice 9: It's, it definitely is not.

[3:19:37] Voice 9: It's, it's something that is very high priority.

[3:19:40] Voice 9: It's not something that's necessarily

[3:19:41] Voice 9: within our jurisdiction.

[3:19:43] Voice 9: And it's something that is also the First Nations Committee

[3:19:48] Voice 9: once they get up and running are going to be helping us with.

[3:19:52] Voice 9: So that was the only context in terms of lower priority.

[3:19:58] Voice 9: And I take your point in

[3:20:02] Voice 9: terms of the optics.

[3:20:06] Voice 9: I know it would be difficult to, we need to change the, okay.

[3:20:15] Voice 9: Sorry.

[3:20:16] Voice 9: Thank you.

[3:20:17] Voice 9: Trustee Bernardo?

[3:20:19] Trustee Bernardo: Yes.

[3:20:20] Trustee Bernardo: I think Trustee Sanford has made a really important point that we need to bear in mind

[3:20:30] Trustee Bernardo: throughout this whole process

[3:20:32] Trustee Bernardo: about how we set our priorities

[3:20:34] Trustee Bernardo: and how we go about doing this stuff

[3:20:36] Trustee Bernardo: because she's quite right.

[3:20:40] Trustee Bernardo: There are things identified in the governance report

[3:20:43] Trustee Bernardo: that rather the governance report

[3:20:46] Trustee Bernardo: has identified things that the Islands Trust is doing

[3:20:48] Trustee Bernardo: or concerned about

[3:20:51] Trustee Bernardo: that aren't really our jurisdiction

[3:20:55] Trustee Bernardo: or our jurisdiction may intersect with it,

[3:20:58] Trustee Bernardo: but we don't really have the capability to engage it

[3:21:02] Trustee Bernardo: Without participation, cooperation, or even under the leadership of a different government

[3:21:10] Trustee Bernardo: or collective governments, for example, First Nations representation, I could see overlaps

[3:21:16] Trustee Bernardo: with the advocacy component in how it's interpreted by the report, which is to say

[3:21:22] Trustee Bernardo: it's the focus there ought to be in terms of developing mechanisms to work cooperatively

[3:21:33] Trustee Bernardo: with other governments i mean it seems to me that that's all wrapped up together and but her point

[3:21:38] Trustee Bernardo: that whether we have the jurisdiction we really should identify the things that we really don't

[3:21:44] Trustee Bernardo: have as an organization don't have that much control over if we start creating subcommittees

[3:21:50] Trustee Bernardo: and basically generating i'll be blunt a lot of rhetoric about whatever issue but we don't have

[3:21:57] Trustee Bernardo: the capacity or the jurisdiction to get anywhere with it we're just wasting time so i think this

[3:22:03] Trustee Bernardo: grid is helpful in terms of organizing thoughts i don't again i'm going to warn people i don't think

[3:22:09] Trustee Bernardo: we should chain ourselves necessarily to it the one that really i mean there's only so much we

[3:22:13] Trustee Bernardo: can do at any given time the one that counts is the one in the upper right hand corner how things

[3:22:18] Trustee Bernardo: go there almost certainly is going to cause us to rejig everything else in the rest of the grid

[3:22:25] Trustee Bernardo: it so my suggestion is let's focus on the one in the upper right hand corner and everything else

[3:22:31] Trustee Bernardo: is like you know okay maybe good idea we're going to look at it later we just can't figure all this

[3:22:37] Trustee Bernardo: stuff out all at once and going back to that first the one on the right hand corner um i see all of

[3:22:46] Trustee Bernardo: those things uh are valuable and important and urgent and high priority with the exception of

[3:22:53] Trustee Bernardo: the local planning issues. I'm not saying that's not important, but when we're talking about OCPs,

[3:23:00] Trustee Bernardo: the numbers of them, reducing them, all that kind of stuff, that really goes into the content of

[3:23:06] Trustee Bernardo: what strategic planning should be like. It's not the process thing that we should be preoccupied

[3:23:11] Trustee Bernardo: with. I think, you know, it comes out in the discussions that we're having. It's very easy

[3:23:19] Trustee Bernardo: to be drawn into the content of what the policy statement, for example, should be or what the

[3:23:24] Trustee Bernardo: content of the strategic plan ought to be or what how local planning is best executed and again we

[3:23:33] Trustee Bernardo: have to exercise some discipline here to say no no no we're the process people to help the

[3:23:38] Trustee Bernardo: organization do those things but we're going to stay out of the content part of it so i would

[3:23:44] Trustee Bernardo: think the local planning issue stuff just is not i is neither urgent nor high priority because it's

[3:23:51] Trustee Bernardo: actually not within our purview the substance of it isn't within our purview as a governance

[3:23:56] Trustee Bernardo: committee

[3:23:56] Voice 8: thank you christy patrick i'm i'm

[3:24:06] Trustee Patrick: i'm i'm just trying to think of uh what um

[3:24:09] Trustee Patrick: fresno bernardo was just saying with with that uh the the while i agree um but still it's it's

[3:24:20] Trustee Patrick: It's the meat and potatoes of what we do, and perhaps it's just local planning effectiveness

[3:24:26] Trustee Patrick: and efficiency or something of that nature, because it does, there are aspects of how

[3:24:35] Trustee Patrick: the LTCs work, and there's a lot of stuff related that will come back and should be

[3:24:45] Trustee Patrick: in this committee.

[3:24:46] Trustee Patrick: It's just taking that time. That is a meaty annex. And it's not all 100% just let regional planning committee and go work with planning staff to figure out what to do. Like I said, there are some really important things that get at how we function as local trust committees in there.

[3:25:09] Trustee Patrick: there so that i would still keep it i think there are urgent and very important elements that are

[3:25:16] Trustee Patrick: parallel some of the things we're doing need to do at trust council are parallel talk about like

[3:25:21] Trustee Patrick: the secretariat is that just for trust council we've got the same problems at the local trust

[3:25:26] Trustee Patrick: committee you know how we as trustees interface with staff at that level so all of this has sort

[3:25:33] Trustee Patrick: sort of a federation level and a local trust level to some degree.

[3:25:38] Trustee Patrick: So that would be my recommendation is leave local planning in the high

[3:25:42] Trustee Patrick: priority, but give it a, give it a, you know,

[3:25:44] Trustee Patrick: just maybe efficiency or effectiveness or something of that nature,

[3:25:47] Trustee Patrick: add to it, not, you know, the OCP and numbers and things.

[3:25:52] Trustee Patrick: Communications, the report was pretty good.

[3:25:54] Trustee Patrick: The report said the communications strategy or plan and public engagement

[3:26:00] Trustee Patrick: strategy and plan. Those are different things.

[3:26:02] Trustee Patrick: We cannot do a communication strategy and solve our public engagement issues.

[3:26:08] Trustee Patrick: Now, that's a strategic planning issue.

[3:26:11] Trustee Patrick: Is that important?

[3:26:12] Trustee Patrick: Are we going to fund it?

[3:26:13] Trustee Patrick: Are we going to make those resources happen?

[3:26:15] Trustee Patrick: So those type of things, I think, could be discussed through as we get into the strategic

[3:26:22] Trustee Patrick: planning element of it, as trust counsel, when they have their conversations, is what

[3:26:31] Trustee Patrick: I mean.

[3:26:32] Trustee Patrick: Anyway, those are my initial thoughts.

[3:26:34] Voice 8: so are they sorry so i just muted myself um

[3:26:42] Voice 9: are they sub um categories under the strategic

[3:26:46] Voice 9: planning well

[3:26:48] Trustee Patrick: i'm it's it's just uh i think like trustee bernardo was alluding to this we're not

[3:26:55] Trustee Patrick: going to do it what is the priorities for us at this moment from a governance perspective

[3:27:00] Trustee Patrick: and i think that's the that is the that is the urgent thing we need to to try to work on well

[3:27:06] Trustee Patrick: while I would say public engagement and communication strategies is urgently

[3:27:10] Trustee Patrick: needed for the organization, but you know, yes,

[3:27:14] Trustee Patrick: there's governance things related to those, but that might come out of when,

[3:27:18] Trustee Patrick: when, when the strategic plan is developed, trust council might say, you know,

[3:27:22] Trustee Patrick: this is a priority and it would be addressed through that process.

[3:27:27] Trustee Patrick: Yeah.

[3:27:28] Voice 9: That's kind of why I had it as still urgent,

[3:27:31] Voice 9: but not as a higher priority as some of these others. All right.

[3:27:35] Voice 9: So if we had a separate category, Trustee Stamford, that was outside our jurisdiction, external to our jurisdiction, that would be the First Nations representation.

[3:27:47] Voice 9: Somehow or other, though, we want to say that it's a priority for us, so it's still urgent.

[3:27:52] Voice 9: urgent um so if i put uh somehow divided up that bottom line in terms of external jurisdiction

[3:27:59] Voice 9: and that would bring in the representation of provincial interests on the trust council as well

[3:28:04] Voice 9: which is less urgent but yeah

[3:28:06] Voice 13: well i again i i'm not sure we should be using like anywhere we

[3:28:11] Voice 13: should have first nation representation under something that says lower priority yeah so it's

[3:28:16] Voice 13: It's just optics, but just another line, like another square that says important outside of our jurisdiction,

[3:28:24] Voice 9: which doesn't mean

[3:28:26] Voice 13: outside this,

[3:28:27] Voice 9: a totally separate, the Z axis.

[3:28:32] Voice 13: Yeah, that three-dimensional thing.

[3:28:35] Voice 13: I am, if I get a quick chance, the secretariat, I understand it's important.

[3:28:41] Voice 13: I just don't see it coming out of urgent high priority at this point. I think we have to do other work first in order for this to make sense.

[3:28:57] Voice 9: Okay.

[3:28:58] Voice 9: Lori,

[3:28:58] Voice 13: can you put

[3:29:00] Voice 9: that graphic down? I'm missing the top line here. Thank you.

[3:29:05] Voice 9: Okay. Jamie, Trustee Harris.

[3:29:10] Voice 3: Thank you, Chair Getty.

[3:29:15] Voice 8: first

[3:29:16] Voice 3: trying to lower my hand okay so

[3:29:19] Voice 8: the

[3:29:22] Voice 3: local planning issues under the urgent high priority

[3:29:26] Voice 3: to me overlap with the election of executive committee which then goes on to appointment of

[3:29:33] Voice 3: chair to local planning and ltc's so you know i think that's very important how we get our chairs

[3:29:42] Voice 3: appointed and elected there's clearly some dysfunction there and a lot of people's view

[3:29:48] Voice 3: in the public um so maybe they kind of they sort of overlap a lot of these things overlap

[3:29:54] Voice 3: as well as communications i see maybe into the policy statement process somehow

[3:30:00] Voice 3: as well as to a degree the First Nations representation, especially in regards to local Indigenous who are affected by the policy statement process

[3:30:10] Voice 3: and haven't been taken into account anywhere to a satisfactory degree in many people's opinions in the public.

[3:30:18] Voice 3: So I see a lot of these as overlapping and we will maybe be seeing these issues being addressed in the urgent high priority box.

[3:30:30] Voice 8: Just a couple of comments there.

[3:30:31] Voice 8: So I'll leave it at that, thanks.

[3:30:35] Voice 8: Trustee Lockem.

[3:30:39] Voice 8: Yeah,

[3:30:39] Trustee Luckham: you know, this is complicated.

[3:30:42] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for including the Zed actors, by the way.

[3:30:47] Trustee Luckham: I'm trying to focus on the lead that I think it was

[3:30:51] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Bernardo gave us by focusing

[3:30:53] Trustee Luckham: on the top right-hand box.

[3:30:55] Trustee Luckham: And I can't help but look at all these boxes actually

[3:30:58] Trustee Luckham: and think about the top priorities lists,

[3:31:01] Trustee Luckham: council and LTCs and committees

[3:31:03] Trustee Luckham: is three top three priorities because that's achievable any more than that you're just

[3:31:09] Trustee Luckham: simply not going to get it done and is it sequential is it concurrent all those things

[3:31:13] Trustee Luckham: come into conversation um the role the process here for the government so therefore uh sticking

[3:31:20] Trustee Luckham: to the objective here too easy to go off on a tangent on that top priority box the honest trust

[3:31:26] Trustee Luckham: act and mandate seems to be to be fundamental there for understanding i'm not sure that anything

[3:31:33] Trustee Luckham: that ends in the word process and that's policy statement strategic plan whether we actually want

[3:31:39] Trustee Luckham: to chime in to the statement or the plan or we want to chime into the process because i think

[3:31:45] Trustee Luckham: it's a government mechanism and process that we want to address that can be equally applied

[3:31:52] Trustee Luckham: to anything we do whatever the label is that we we attach to it and indeed many respects local

[3:31:58] Trustee Luckham: planning issues um are also the same or similar and it's a process certainly um i have to and so

[3:32:07] Trustee Luckham: i'm thinking about removing some of these items from here consolidating them in a different way

[3:32:11] Trustee Luckham: um because we're being we're getting hung up with the recommendations that provided and now

[3:32:17] Trustee Luckham: Now we're changing the wording slightly to embrace something different than what the

[3:32:21] Trustee Luckham: recommendations were.

[3:32:22] Trustee Luckham: And of course, at the end, council has to be happy with us giving them this and they

[3:32:26] Trustee Luckham: understand what it is that we're saying.

[3:32:28] Trustee Luckham: I still think the secretariat needs a lot more conversation to understand better, especially

[3:32:34] Trustee Luckham: seeing, as I want to just say, with the recent change in the legislative services manager

[3:32:41] Trustee Luckham: manager role, we are doing things differently than we have done in the last five or 10 years.

[3:32:47] Trustee Luckham: And so it may be that this ultimately ends up looking like what it is that people

[3:32:52] Trustee Luckham: anticipate that it should be. And then the same with local planning, et cetera. So I'm inclined

[3:32:58] Trustee Luckham: to move things out of high priority and maybe down to the urgent lower priority. And then I think I

[3:33:04] Trustee Luckham: I heard that I'm certainly much more interested in prioritizing a process around First Nations

[3:33:11] Trustee Luckham: engagement as a high priority. And so bumping that up from a lower priority to a higher priority,

[3:33:17] Trustee Luckham: because indeed, recognition of the territorial interests of the entire Gulf Islands area

[3:33:22] Trustee Luckham: should be a high priority. And that was also clearly articulated in the report in many

[3:33:29] Trustee Luckham: roundabout ways so focusing on the top right hand square and the other items can lie where they end

[3:33:39] Voice 9: focusing on the first nations representation in that way is that not the content as opposed to

[3:33:44] Voice 9: um us recommending how we go about it and how does the first nations committee play into that

[3:33:51] Voice 9: oh

[3:33:55] Trustee Luckham: well you know i'd like to get an update from staff on um where are we at with that concept

[3:34:00] Trustee Luckham: because i don't know that we've been referenced a number of times now i don't know that we're on

[3:34:05] Trustee Luckham: our journey on on that um so be in terms of

[3:34:09] Trustee Luckham: having a committee yeah yeah okay i

[3:34:13] Voice 10: could assist if you

[3:34:15] Voice 10: want madam chair please so when you look at the first nations issues i think we have to avoid

[3:34:21] Voice 10: having it be a totality or one thing i think as it's represented on the screen it's the concept

[3:34:28] Voice 10: concept of sharing governance. The recommendation that prompted you to have this conversation

[3:34:33] Voice 10: is a governance sharing recommendation that came from the report. So that's a pretty discreet

[3:34:41] Voice 10: but fundamental consideration to be taken up at some time. I would suggest when this

[3:34:46] Voice 10: organization is mature enough to grapple with it, which we're on that journey right now.

[3:34:51] Voice 10: Now, there are other First Nations, our current engagement program exists and is maturing.

[3:34:58] Voice 10: I don't think it's referenced on here, so I don't think that you have to take that on

[3:35:02] Voice 10: necessarily.

[3:35:03] Voice 10: Executive committees in charge of that.

[3:35:05] Voice 10: And their third, there's contemplation of some form of reconciliation body at the Allens

[3:35:12] Voice 10: Trust that has a more of a political oversight or contributory or communications function.

[3:35:19] Voice 10: Mayor Mrakas, You have yet to have that conversation, a reports going to EC if you want to check that agenda out yeah it's already out there's going to be that preliminary discussion on Monday.

[3:35:29] Voice 10: Mayor Mrakas, And then some discussion, whether it's an advisory body and educational body, which I think is the regular recommendation, at least initially or ultimately something that has more official standing at some point that question would go, I would suspect to that body.

[3:35:47] Voice 10: um so that that's how i see the breakdown of sort of the three main thrusts

[3:35:55] Voice 10: outrage outreach and engagement with nations um is continuing work at the allen's trust it's being

[3:36:04] Voice 10: funded across the organization right now and i don't think that's in needs to be or is represented

[3:36:10] Voice 10: by what's on that page thank you trustee

[3:36:16] Trustee Luckham: london yeah thank you i'll just wrap up um thank you for

[3:36:20] Trustee Luckham: of that explanation, CAO. So I just need to say here that the policy statement, although I was

[3:36:26] Trustee Luckham: suggesting it should maybe be there or not there, it's an important piece of the puzzle, no matter

[3:36:33] Trustee Luckham: what it actually ends up looking like. And indeed, if we're moving the dial on anything, we need to

[3:36:38] Trustee Luckham: move the dial on First Nations. And that's in the policy statement is where we can change that from

[3:36:44] Trustee Luckham: a very insulting document to a document that seizes the moment of where we are at nationally

[3:36:51] Trustee Luckham: associated with reconciliation work through DRIPA. And so indeed there is a process and a mechanism

[3:36:59] Trustee Luckham: in place and in fact an educational body which was struck last term to assist trustees and staff in

[3:37:07] Trustee Luckham: becoming more aware and so does that work continue under that the guise of that or does it need a

[3:37:12] Trustee Luckham: populated committee because I think the rationale for having a populated committee and staff

[3:37:18] Trustee Luckham: resources in that role is to ensure that all these protocol agreements and all these things

[3:37:24] Trustee Luckham: that we need to update and all the communications that need to happen need to be done in a serious

[3:37:29] Trustee Luckham: way, not off the side of somebody's desk. And it actually, in many respects, dwarfs the number of

[3:37:37] Trustee Luckham: OCPs and the problems associated with OCPs when we're talking about updating and monitoring and

[3:37:42] Trustee Luckham: in managing protocol agreements

[3:37:44] Trustee Luckham: with 30 different First Nations.

[3:37:47] Trustee Luckham: So there we go.

[3:37:48] Trustee Luckham: I don't want to say any more at this point.

[3:37:53] Voice 8: Christy Harris.

[3:37:55] Voice 8: Thank you, Chair Getty.

[3:37:58] Voice 8: A couple of things.

[3:38:00] Voice 8: I wanted

[3:38:01] Voice 3: to finish my train of thought

[3:38:02] Voice 3: about the urgent high priority box

[3:38:07] Voice 3: and the not urgent, but high priority

[3:38:09] Voice 3: and the election of executive committee

[3:38:12] Voice 3: being related in ways to local planning issues.

[3:38:16] Voice 3: So possibly that could go into brackets

[3:38:19] Voice 3: or underneath the election,

[3:38:21] Voice 3: the local planning issues could be in the not urgent,

[3:38:23] Voice 3: but high priority.

[3:38:25] Voice 3: The policy statement process,

[3:38:27] Voice 3: I think that communications could easily be in a bracket

[3:38:32] Voice 3: beside the policy statement process.

[3:38:35] Voice 3: At the last programs committee meeting,

[3:38:38] Voice 3: We had passed a motion regarding that and that we would take the draft prior to first reading out to the public to send it to LTCs so that they could, you know, get it out to the public before first reading.

[3:38:57] Voice 3: so we already kind of are maybe we can just reinforce that recommendation um so if communications

[3:39:04] Voice 3: were up um again in brackets beside policy statement process um okay if we look at this

[3:39:09] Voice 9: sorry if

[3:39:11] Voice 3: we look at this

[3:39:11] Voice 9: chart in terms of what's going to be our homework for the next meeting

[3:39:15] Voice 9: right and it's going to be in the upper right hand corner um then it seems to me that if we

[3:39:21] Voice 9: We take local planning issues, OCP numbers and updates, and maybe move it down into it's either high priority or it's urgent.

[3:39:32] Voice 9: It seems to me it goes into the upper left or the bottom right.

[3:39:35] Voice 9: And the same with Secretariat.

[3:39:38] Voice 9: And I know that Trustee Middleton has got a particular interest in this and that he might want to take that on.

[3:39:44] Voice 9: But what the homework is going to be for this committee, it seems to me, is to gather information about Section 3, what's happening with the policy statement and what's happening with ideas that we've got about strategic planning.

[3:39:58] Voice 9: And maybe ahead of all of that is the meeting process, the bylaw and the policies.

[3:40:03] Voice 9: So if we take those bottom two out of there, change, maybe put First Nations up into there underneath.

[3:40:10] Voice 9: underneath it's come into the mandate it's part of the policy statement it's less offensive in

[3:40:17] Voice 9: terms of it not saying it's lower priority on the understanding that it's everything in this

[3:40:23] Voice 9: all of the recommendations overlap and there's all sorts of linkages and everything but in terms of

[3:40:29] Voice 9: what we're going to work on next and what is our highest priority it's going to be you know

[3:40:34] Voice 9: minimizing what's in the upper right so point

[3:40:39] Voice 3: of order um chair i think that might be the right

[3:40:41] Voice 3: term just because i hadn't finished saying what i was i'm sorry

[3:40:44] Voice 8: it's

[3:40:45] Voice 3: okay it's completely fine

[3:40:46] Voice 3: i just wanted to

[3:40:47] Voice 8: point of order and do

[3:40:48] Voice 3: it um properly um uh just a note um i remember from

[3:40:54] Voice 3: our electronic trust council meeting uh the lawyer from over in the lower mainland or in that neck of

[3:41:01] Voice 3: of the woods anyhow i'd spoke about first nations and and how the islands trust has been uh kind of

[3:41:07] Voice 3: a front runner as far as governmental organizations go so something to keep in mind that we are doing

[3:41:12] Voice 3: a pretty good job there and um anyways i'll leave it at that thanks sorry

[3:41:19] Voice 8: to interrupt trustee

[3:41:20] Voice 8: bernardo yes thank you um i'm uh uh

[3:41:28] Trustee Bernardo: i'm in danger of being a broken record about this but i'm

[3:41:31] Trustee Bernardo: i'm going to keep doing it sorry uh it's i'm going to harp on this need for us to distinguish

[3:41:37] Trustee Bernardo: between policy priorities and content which is everything that we're talking about when we talk

[3:41:43] Trustee Bernardo: about first nations or local planning or some of this stuff and fixing what's busted under the hood

[3:41:50] Trustee Bernardo: i mean we're not the driver of the car we're the mechanic that's the rule we're to fix the engine

[3:41:58] Trustee Bernardo: So the driver, the trust council can take it where it wants to go. First Nations, and this is one of the things with the governance report, I mean, this grid is helpful to some extent, but I think it might be more helpful for us to take a few moments to identify what is generally governance that's engaged by the report and what's policy.

[3:42:24] Trustee Bernardo: And we don't have to feel bad and frightened that somebody's going to criticize us because we're not elevating this or that policy because that's not our job.

[3:42:36] Trustee Bernardo: Our job is to look at the mechanics of the machine here.

[3:42:39] Trustee Bernardo: So, and the reason I'm harping on this is I don't want us to sort of get lost in the anxiety of appearances and stuff.

[3:42:47] Trustee Bernardo: um so you know i'm gratified to see that you know we are focusing in the things that have to

[3:42:57] Trustee Bernardo: actually get done and i like the chair has commented about homework but let's get realistic

[3:43:01] Trustee Bernardo: i mean for political reasons we put the first nation's representation in the upper right hand

[3:43:07] Trustee Bernardo: box which didn't exist until this meeting and what does that actually mean when i hear words

[3:43:13] Trustee Bernardo: like optics i get very nervous i don't want us to be playing that game i want us to be just honest

[3:43:18] Trustee Bernardo: as to what we're doing here.

[3:43:21] Trustee Bernardo: And I should be careful here,

[3:43:23] Trustee Bernardo: otherwise I might go a bit too far.

[3:43:25] Trustee Bernardo: But in terms of the homework,

[3:43:27] Trustee Bernardo: I'm happy to, once those legal opinions are available,

[3:43:32] Trustee Bernardo: I'm happy to go through them

[3:43:34] Trustee Bernardo: and just sort of try to digest what they say

[3:43:35] Trustee Bernardo: and try to at least try to understand them

[3:43:39] Trustee Bernardo: and come back to the committee with provisional guests

[3:43:43] Trustee Bernardo: as to the state of legal knowledge at this end.

[3:43:46] Trustee Bernardo: I'm happy to do that homework.

[3:43:49] Voice 8: Trustee Scott.

[3:43:52] Voice 8: Thank you.

[3:43:54] Voice 4: I think we're turning ourselves into pretzels trying to figure out which box things fit in.

[3:44:00] Voice 4: In my mind, there's only two boxes.

[3:44:02] Voice 4: There's what we're going to be dealing with over the next, basically from now until summer.

[3:44:08] Voice 4: And what are we going to, that other box is going to change as time goes by, as we learn more what other committees are doing, as things change.

[3:44:18] Voice 4: So I'd like to just simplify this. What are we going to deal with between now? What are the four or five high priorities that we're going to deal with over the next six months? And then the others will shuffle and come in and out as time goes by.

[3:44:35] Voice 4: this the second point i'd like to make is that the first nations issue there first nations

[3:44:41] Voice 4: represent is there not a committee that's dealing specifically with this and if there is well i

[3:44:51] Voice 4: thought there's is there there's going to be one though right that's what

[3:44:54] Voice 9: i understood that's on

[3:44:55] Voice 4: the agenda

[3:44:56] Voice 9: to talk about yeah

[3:44:57] Voice 4: because if there is that maybe is where that point should live it

[3:45:02] Voice 4: shouldn't be here at all because it's a huge issue in itself and I think it takes a lot more than

[3:45:08] Voice 4: it it goes everywhere really so I'm not sure that should be there at all those are

[3:45:14] Voice 4: are my two points chair thank you CAO well

[3:45:20] Voice 10: madam chair just an opportunity as you as you narrow

[3:45:23] Voice 10: this down for staff to assist you with some reflections on the key things you're going

[3:45:27] Voice 10: forward so I just wanted to get that opportunity at some point to it doesn't have to be now but

[3:45:35] Voice 10: But you

[3:45:37] Voice 9: got the floor now.

[3:45:39] Voice 10: Well, when I when I look at your priorities, the policy statement process isn't a recommendation out of this report.

[3:45:47] Voice 10: And I don't, I haven't heard what, it seems to be part of the, if you have a robust corporate process that has inside it robust financial planning that's connected with the strategic planning process from which comes content in the form of appropriate land use planning framework underneath which are OCPs and regulatory bylaws.

[3:46:14] Voice 10: that is this is a total thing that flies in a sequence whereas just the policy statement

[3:46:20] Voice 10: process i wouldn't know what you'd really be doing next week given that two other committees

[3:46:25] Voice 10: are already working on that and it has a life of its own right now you you might be reflecting on

[3:46:31] Voice 10: its future um and how we would do it in a in a systemic way that benefits everybody into the

[3:46:38] Voice 10: future but i don't know whether you have meat and you don't have a recommendation from the

[3:46:42] Voice 10: consultants to say narrow in on the public the policy statement process i think you should refer

[3:46:48] Voice 10: some of the local planning materials to potentially the um the body that's reflecting on

[3:46:56] Voice 10: that i don't know if that's a popular opinion or not um around the appendix um and that that's uh

[3:47:03] Voice 10: the planning group because at least they're they're going to bring you an update on what

[3:47:09] Voice 10: has happened that's in the report and that's recommended and what hasn't and that would then

[3:47:15] Voice 10: inform you to have some sort of analysis um that's all i'd say um at the start madam chair just in

[3:47:22] Voice 10: terms of because i'm thinking at some point you're going to ask somebody to do something and it's

[3:47:26] Voice 10: probably going to be some of us staff at some point um in concert with the work that you're

[3:47:31] Voice 10: are doing, of course. But just a little context. Thanks.

[3:47:36] Voice 9: Fair enough. Trustee Luckham.

[3:47:40] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. You

[3:47:41] Trustee Luckham: know, it's funny. When we had the policy statement conversation before lunch there, I said a few

[3:47:47] Trustee Luckham: things that were not well articulated. And I'll just say that Trustee Bernardo has articulated

[3:47:53] Trustee Luckham: it very well. And the CAO is kind of backfilled there. That indeed, the governance committee

[3:48:00] Trustee Luckham: committee needs to deal with process. What you decide the process is going to be applied to,

[3:48:07] Trustee Luckham: whether it's policy statements, strategic planning, or First Nations, is not material.

[3:48:14] Trustee Luckham: And so, indeed, if we're creating a chart here, it needs to be addressing what the process is,

[3:48:21] Trustee Luckham: not naming the project. Because if we are successful in creating a process that works,

[3:48:28] Trustee Luckham: It can be applied across all of the projects that we choose to take on.

[3:48:39] Voice 8: Okay.

[3:48:42] Voice 8: So what do we got?

[3:48:45] Voice 9: Just a little over an hour.

[3:48:50] Voice 9: We've already asked staff to help us get some information with respect to Section 3 mandate.

[3:48:57] Voice 9: date um the policy statement is before the executive committee and um possibly one other

[3:49:07] Voice 9: committee program okay and we had meant had some discussion in terms of um the bylaw 101

[3:49:19] Voice 9: one and the huge amount of policies that are surrounding meeting process so um if we focus on

[3:49:29] Voice 9: those those two that we've talked about getting more information on the policy statement process

[3:49:37] Voice 9: and the well i think the policy statement process is um different from strategic planning process but

[3:49:45] Voice 9: but we'll see where that ends up.

[3:49:49] Voice 9: And we're waiting on the policy statement.

[3:49:51] Voice 9: That's going to be sometime in June.

[3:49:52] Voice 9: So that could come out of maybe urgent.

[3:49:59] Voice 9: Okay.

[3:49:59] Voice 9: There's a note here from trustee Peterson.

[3:50:02] Voice 9: He's not able to connect.

[3:50:06] Voice 9: Okay.

[3:50:07] Voice 9: I just lost that.

[3:50:12] Voice 8: Section three and

[3:50:13] Voice 9: bottle 101 should be top priorities.

[3:50:14] Voice 9: Okay.

[3:50:15] Voice 9: Okay. So I can't adjust this chart now that it's up here. So let's take it. Section three,

[3:50:25] Voice 9: meeting process. And we have to start thinking about how we're going to set up and try to plan

[3:50:32] Voice 9: some way of getting the Trust Council the time and the energy to do strategic planning.

[3:50:40] Voice 9: We started off the whole meeting in terms of that's everybody's priority. It's in the report,

[3:50:44] Voice 9: it's everybody's priority and you know what are we going to do about it so we need to understand

[3:50:49] Voice 9: some of these other things but um and we'll do them first but that's got to be in our in the

[3:50:55] Voice 9: back of our mind i think the whole time so if we adjust this um upper right hand uh box into um

[3:51:04] Voice 9: just the two or three things then we could maybe say to the trust council what we're working on

[3:51:13] Voice 9: and how we got here trustee patrick uh

[3:51:18] Trustee Patrick: well i was glad to see joe's hand come up uh trustee renardo

[3:51:21] Trustee Patrick: um i liked he phrased almost a directional statement about the uh strategic plan earlier

[3:51:29] Trustee Patrick: and i thought the language around requesting you know the director of or just requesting

[3:51:35] Trustee Patrick: you know some best practices was a was a good thing that maybe we could aim to have for each

[3:51:42] Trustee Patrick: of these uh statements but uh so i'd like to hear what you said again before trustee bernardo on the

[3:51:52] Trustee Patrick: strategic plan sorry

[3:52:00] Voice 8: trustee bernardo yes thank you chair

[3:52:03] Trustee Bernardo: um right well that's actually what i

[3:52:05] Trustee Bernardo: was going to get into because you know it makes sense so right now we're kind of struggling to

[3:52:10] Trustee Bernardo: figure out what direction we should set and there is a natural tendency to sort of think sometimes

[3:52:17] Trustee Bernardo: that these things are actually more difficult than they actually might be. I'm hearing an

[3:52:23] Trustee Bernardo: emerging consensus that what's important is we figure out the mandate, we get the strategic

[3:52:28] Trustee Bernardo: planning process underway, we figure out how to do our meetings better. And those three seem

[3:52:36] Trustee Bernardo: like they've already emerged as those are the dominant things. The policy statement process

[3:52:41] Trustee Bernardo: has been remarked about before, and I believe by the CAO, is really subordinate to the strategic

[3:52:47] Trustee Bernardo: planning process it's it's a it's a uh you know if we take care of the the mandate it's really

[3:52:56] Trustee Bernardo: somebody else's other people's business to develop the policy statement and figure out the content

[3:53:01] Trustee Bernardo: the question is what are the resources and what's the process to it and that does wrap up into the

[3:53:07] Trustee Bernardo: strategic planning thing so you could leave it in that list for the sake of whatever but the reality

[3:53:12] Trustee Bernardo: is it's the mandate strategic planning and meetings are probably things we're going to

[3:53:17] Trustee Bernardo: settle on and everything else is kind of subordinate or if we look at it can feed into it

[3:53:21] Trustee Bernardo: anyhow back to the strategic planning business uh it seems to me that you know we don't have to sort

[3:53:26] Trustee Bernardo: of like uh be engaging in too much navel gazing about this it's um i think a good first start

[3:53:33] Trustee Bernardo: about this is is let's go where the expertise is uh strategic planning requires a corporate

[3:53:42] Trustee Bernardo: planning process that's very much the kind of thing uh and i believe that the director of

[3:53:50] Trustee Bernardo: administrative services uh she has that skill set that's my understanding given her background and

[3:53:55] Trustee Bernardo: of course by virtue of her role as effectively you see a full-fledged organization she's the

[3:54:00] Trustee Bernardo: the natural staff person to be leading that uh that's what it's like in virtually every other

[3:54:05] Trustee Bernardo: organization that's who leads the charge on things like that so i'm thinking that we might be able to

[3:54:12] Trustee Bernardo: have a resolution today and i'm not making it now i'm just going to throw it out there and i think

[3:54:17] Trustee Bernardo: i'm repeating myself from before but if there seems a straw poll that there's some support for

[3:54:22] Trustee Bernardo: this i'd like to us to simply start doing stuff here and make a resolution that recommends that

[3:54:29] Trustee Bernardo: the fpc work with the director of administrative services to develop a corporate planning process

[3:54:36] Trustee Bernardo: for the next budget cycle that meets the best practices for enterprises of a size and character

[3:54:44] Trustee Bernardo: similar to the islands trust we don't have to reinvent the wheel this stuff is out there it's

[3:54:51] Trustee Bernardo: done by other agencies uh we probably pretty quickly can adopt a process uh and if we can

[3:55:02] Trustee Bernardo: develop uh pretty quickly what the process should look like we look it over it makes sense to us

[3:55:10] Trustee Bernardo: then we're in a position to go to trust council and say look we think this is a good idea we

[3:55:14] Trustee Bernardo: recommend you adopt this process as developed by the director of administer admin services

[3:55:18] Trustee Bernardo: together with the fpc and

[3:55:21] Voice 8: uh that's the idea thank you question for staff

[3:55:28] Voice 9: can we make a reference

[3:55:29] Voice 9: referral to another committee you

[3:55:32] Voice 10: can but i have a lot to say if you if around this matter if um

[3:55:37] Voice 10: and if if we want to go there we we can certainly the intention um of developing a corporate plan

[3:55:44] Voice 10: is fine i would

[3:55:46] Trustee Bernardo: ask you that you make a point of order point of order i'm not sure if it's a point

[3:55:49] Trustee Bernardo: of order i'm just trying to excuse my interruption apologies cao i just wanted to throw in another

[3:55:54] Trustee Bernardo: piece of information in there that is relevant to discussion because i anticipate your concern

[3:56:01] Trustee Bernardo: about intercommittee fussing and failure to communicate um i can assure you uh on the fpc side

[3:56:12] Trustee Bernardo: uh there's a tremendous sense of urgency that a corporate planning process is necessary so

[3:56:20] Trustee Bernardo: So a resolution to this effect is not going to fall on deaf ears.

[3:56:24] Trustee Bernardo: It's going to be falling on a very receptive group of people.

[3:56:27] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[3:56:32] Voice 8: Russ?

[3:56:33] Voice 8: So I think

[3:56:35] Voice 10: that's true, having been in all of the FPC meetings since I've been at the

[3:56:40] Voice 10: Allen's Trust, and that lens needs to be applied.

[3:56:44] Voice 10: It is not, however, the totality of corporate planning.

[3:56:47] Voice 10: It's the long-term budget element associated with content that comes across the floor.

[3:56:54] Voice 10: and some robustness needs to occur.

[3:56:58] Voice 10: I would ask that when motions are made

[3:57:00] Voice 10: that you don't specify the employee, but go with staff

[3:57:04] Voice 10: and I will do my best as the resource to you

[3:57:07] Voice 10: to ensure that the staff you need are there.

[3:57:09] Voice 10: I have a particular insight into what any one staff person

[3:57:13] Voice 10: has in terms of what's on their plate

[3:57:15] Voice 10: and what isn't in their plate,

[3:57:16] Voice 10: but I can tell you this is important

[3:57:21] Voice 10: and it would get its consideration.

[3:57:23] Voice 10: But that itself will need you, I think, to be thinking about what are the elements of a corporate plan, because it's not just an administrative discussion. That's the financial corporate oversight discussion. There needs to be a discussion that's above that, I humbly recommend, that discusses what a corporate plan is, the constituent elements of it, and you slowly knit these pieces together.

[3:57:48] Voice 10: I think the budget group for sure can begin having some of those conversations

[3:57:54] Voice 10: Thank you

[3:57:55] Trustee Bernardo: Sheriff on a step in to respond to that. Yes. Thank you. I

[3:58:01] Trustee Bernardo: there's nothing to disagree with what the CAO is saying there if it's

[3:58:06] Trustee Bernardo: Preferable not to name specific staff. That's fine

[3:58:12] Trustee Bernardo: and

[3:58:13] Trustee Bernardo: Point well taken which is that whatever is developed on the FPC side is

[3:58:19] Trustee Bernardo: going to be uh necessarily kind of budgetarily focused uh that's true it's not going to be the

[3:58:26] Trustee Bernardo: complete picture uh which is why my suggestion is that's at least a start and it gives us a skeleton

[3:58:34] Trustee Bernardo: or a structure and that's why i'm not suggesting that that is what goes to the trust committee

[3:58:38] Trustee Bernardo: trust council it's a that gives us something to work with that can come back here to this

[3:58:43] Trustee Bernardo: committee after we've done some preliminary work on that to say okay this is as far as we've gotten

[3:58:49] Trustee Bernardo: Now, other people are going to get their oar in on this. Over to you guys to figure out the process about how we can fill this out in terms of developing this in a better way. So, sure, it all makes sense. Thank you.

[3:59:04] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Lockham?

[3:59:05] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you. I'll just say that at this juncture, I'm prepared to follow in the direction that Trustee Bernardo is taking us there with respect to a corporate plan. We haven't used that word too much here. We've talked about strategic planning, but indeed, the corporate plan associated with strategic planning is incredibly important.

[3:59:28] Trustee Luckham: And so if there was anything that was going to be called a process here, it would be a strategic corporate plan process that can be applied to all levels of the organization. And so I'd be really happy with that. And indeed, the policy statement perhaps is moved as subjective to that.

[3:59:48] Trustee Luckham: But I just want to just chime in on, well, two other things, really, but one significant thing that I think is missing on this urgent higher priority list, and I'm not sure why it was lost.

[4:00:00] Trustee Luckham: I missed the thread, but the elements of leadership, because the leadership at the

[4:00:05] Trustee Luckham: council table from trustees is also fundamental to ensuring success with any meeting process that

[4:00:15] Trustee Luckham: we have. So hand in hand with looking at bylaws and policies associated with meetings, it's like

[4:00:23] Trustee Luckham: you can't lead a horse to water, right, thing. Council needs to embrace its responsibility with

[4:00:29] Trustee Luckham: with leadership. And I've been saying this for years now. And indeed, that needs to percolate

[4:00:34] Trustee Luckham: down or percolate up from committees. And so how do we provide the opportunity to provide

[4:00:43] Trustee Luckham: guidance around the leadership piece? And so I just want to add that. But just the urgency around

[4:00:48] Trustee Luckham: the corporate plan and FPC, and absolutely, it's going to be an exciting year. I can see that

[4:00:55] Trustee Luckham: that already. But this fiscal period ends March 31st, and beginning April 1st will be a start of

[4:01:00] Trustee Luckham: a new process. And the FPC has, within its autonomy, the ability to determine what that

[4:01:09] Trustee Luckham: new financial development process looks like that isn't dependent necessarily on the governance

[4:01:15] Trustee Luckham: committee. Certainly, you'd want to get buy-in from council, but FPC, I think, has a sufficient

[4:01:21] Trustee Luckham: sufficient amount of discretion to determine the process of the next budget development.

[4:01:25] Trustee Luckham: There you go. All right.

[4:01:30] Voice 9: Would it be helpful? I mean, I've been through half a dozen different

[4:01:35] Voice 9: corporate plan exercises or strategic planning. I don't know that I could necessarily, I'd have

[4:01:40] Voice 9: to spend some time figuring it out and mapping it out in terms of, you know, some ideas and best

[4:01:46] Voice 9: practices and different exercises that people have taken us through. But would it help this

[4:01:52] Voice 9: this group if we ask the staff to do some sort of an outline of best practices constituent elements

[4:02:00] Voice 9: what and for us then to decide what we want or what we think would be the most helpful in terms

[4:02:07] Voice 9: of guiding the trust council through this kind of process let's go there sorry russ you got your

[4:02:13] Voice 9: hand up

[4:02:13] Voice 10: well i'm just offering my professional services uh madam chair indeed i'm a minor expert

[4:02:19] Voice 10: on the strategic planning process as well

[4:02:22] Voice 10: and could certainly sort of draft

[4:02:25] Voice 10: like a backgrounding preparing report

[4:02:28] Voice 10: around a corporate planning process

[4:02:29] Voice 10: for your next meeting.

[4:02:31] Voice 10: I take it's going to be in April probably.

[4:02:33] Voice 10: And that could be where you start

[4:02:35] Voice 10: to pull some of those concepts together.

[4:02:39] Voice 10: And I could outreach actually in doing so

[4:02:41] Voice 10: to any of the other committees

[4:02:42] Voice 10: to see if they were the committee chairs at least

[4:02:45] Voice 10: to get some of their thinking around it.

[4:02:47] Voice 10: and it won't be a whole process certainly last term I came to trust council and presented a

[4:02:54] Voice 10: strategic planning process and they they were amenable to it but I can I can I can widen it

[4:03:01] Voice 10: and go and get some corporate planning information and bring it back to you in a form of a report

[4:03:06] Voice 10: all

[4:03:08] Voice 9: right do you need a resolution that

[4:03:10] Voice 10: would be great all

[4:03:12] Voice 9: right who's good at doing resolutions

[4:03:14] Voice 9: solutions. David, do you want to take that on? You suggest one for us? That's called golfing it over

[4:03:27] Voice 9: or punting maybe. I don't know.

[4:03:29] Voice 2: I can just help you get it started. So I would just suggest that

[4:03:32] Voice 2: you identify the committee and then the actions. I would say that move that the governance committee

[4:03:40] Voice 2: requests staff to, and then what specifically is it what you want, you can add that after.

[4:03:46] Voice 2: to

[4:03:46] Voice 9: create an outline of best practices for the constituent elements of a

[4:03:51] Voice 9: developing a corporate strategic

[4:03:53] Voice 9: corporate plan.

[4:03:57] Voice 9: Trustee Bernardo, you're really good at this. Do you want to,

[4:04:00] Voice 9: you got your hand up?

[4:04:01] Voice 9: Yes,

[4:04:02] Trustee Bernardo: I do. Again,

[4:04:06] Trustee Bernardo: CAO I think is, you know, cooking with gas with what he's saying here.

[4:04:10] Trustee Bernardo: It makes a lot of sense, but I do not want,

[4:04:13] Trustee Bernardo: I do feel that the FPC is the right body

[4:04:17] Trustee Bernardo: to start the process with because...

[4:04:22] Voice 9: Because you're the chair of it.

[4:04:24] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah.

[4:04:25] Trustee Bernardo: Well, no.

[4:04:26] Trustee Bernardo: Because I'm the chair of it,

[4:04:27] Trustee Bernardo: I recognize the urgent need for it over at our end.

[4:04:32] Trustee Bernardo: And I do think it's a good jumping off spot.

[4:04:34] Trustee Bernardo: But the point's well taken,

[4:04:36] Trustee Bernardo: that it is more complex than just financial.

[4:04:38] Trustee Bernardo: And it does engage more than just...

[4:04:43] Trustee Bernardo: the accounting function it accounts you know it is a more complex thing i'm gratified to hear

[4:04:48] Trustee Bernardo: that the ceo has some background in this area so um maybe as a first start i'm going to suggest

[4:04:55] Trustee Bernardo: that we have a resolution along these lines which is you know that uh governance committee directs

[4:05:03] Trustee Bernardo: staff to work with fpc to develop a corporate planning process uh uh that meets best practices

[4:05:13] Trustee Bernardo: or I should go back a step,

[4:05:16] Trustee Bernardo: direct staff to work with the FPC

[4:05:18] Trustee Bernardo: to develop an outline

[4:05:20] Trustee Bernardo: of a corporate planning process

[4:05:23] Trustee Bernardo: that meets best practices

[4:05:25] Trustee Bernardo: for enterprises of a size and character

[4:05:28] Trustee Bernardo: similar to the Islands Trust

[4:05:29] Trustee Bernardo: and to return to the General Council

[4:05:32] Trustee Bernardo: with its findings by the end of the day.

[4:05:38] Voice 8: Financial planning and other committees?

[4:05:41] Voice 8: Other standing committees?

[4:05:43] Voice 8: As required, yeah.

[4:05:45] Voice 8: with

[4:05:46] Trustee Bernardo: FPC and other standing committees as required

[4:05:49] Trustee Bernardo: to develop an outline of a corporate planning process

[4:05:54] Trustee Bernardo: that meets the best practices

[4:05:56] Trustee Bernardo: for enterprises of a size and character

[4:05:59] Trustee Bernardo: similar to the Islands Trust

[4:06:01] Trustee Bernardo: and to return to the Governance Committee

[4:06:03] Trustee Bernardo: with its findings by specified the date.

[4:06:08] Voice 11: Okay.

[4:06:10] Voice 11: Any comments, Russ?

[4:06:12] Voice 11: No, I think that's a good starting point.

[4:06:15] Voice 11: Trustee Patrick?

[4:06:19] Voice 8: I was just...

[4:06:22] Trustee Patrick: Couldn't the motion just be cleaner? I mean, we're requesting that this be started. I mean, it's the review of the report that needs to be shared with FPC. If we're saying we want to hear FPC's opinions of this staff report as well, or is it the intent that FPC and this committee work together with staff to create this?

[4:06:44] Trustee Patrick: that's not what i'm i think you're asking staff to go do the work um it's how that report now is

[4:06:51] Trustee Patrick: received do we share it with the fpc for their input too is that what i'm

[4:06:56] Voice 9: laurie can we get the

[4:06:58] Voice 9: chart down and see that motion uh

[4:07:02] Trustee Bernardo: chair if my click if i can clarify trustee patrick's question

[4:07:04] Trustee Bernardo: there yep

[4:07:05] Voice 9: uh

[4:07:06] Trustee Bernardo: the intention behind this the way i've phrased the resolution is it's implicit in

[4:07:13] Trustee Bernardo: the work with yet that the fbc and understanding committees do with the staff that uh they're going

[4:07:20] Trustee Bernardo: to know what the contents of staff's work is because they worked with staff to develop it

[4:07:25] Trustee Bernardo: and then it comes over here back to governance committee to look at after fbc and other standing

[4:07:29] Trustee Bernardo: committees have had a look at it or have contributed to it or whatever you know they've

[4:07:35] Trustee Bernardo: worked on it so uh that's the idea there and in terms of i don't think we need to go to fbc to

[4:07:44] Trustee Bernardo: get its opinion generally about what the um governance report says about corporate planning

[4:07:51] Trustee Bernardo: or whether the fbc thinks it's a good idea um we're you know i mean i just can tell you the

[4:07:59] Trustee Bernardo: fbc is on board i mean it's it's it's uh it recognizes i think the need for this i mean

[4:08:06] Trustee Bernardo: And it's like we've had a lot of trouble this year struggling with some of the things that are on the budget, precisely because we were suffering from a lack of strategic planning that came into it.

[4:08:21] Trustee Bernardo: So the need is definitely there.

[4:08:22] Trustee Bernardo: So I hope that answers the question.

[4:08:26] Voice 9: So if I can clarify this motion, I see your hand up, Trustee Stamford, but it was the Governance Committee is directing staff to work.

[4:08:37] Voice 9: um now the it seems to me that the discussion is whether or not it's with fpc or with other

[4:08:42] Voice 9: any relevant committees um to develop an outline of a corporate plan do we we did talk about best

[4:08:49] Voice 9: practices and constituent elements do we need something like that in there for clarification

[4:08:59] Voice 8: russ

[4:08:59] Trustee Bernardo: but can i pipe in i mean the wording here is not very close is is uh do i need to repeat

[4:09:06] Trustee Bernardo: the wording i had done before just so we've got a draft up here that we can work with it

[4:09:10] Trustee Bernardo: yeah yes

[4:09:10] Trustee Bernardo: please send it to me i that

[4:09:12] Voice 14: would be great okay while we're

[4:09:14] Voice 9: doing that trustee stamford

[4:09:18] Voice 13: yeah i'm just um focusing on the fpc because what i'm hearing is that this is going to committees

[4:09:26] Voice 13: uh i also think the executive committee is one of those committees that needs to go to

[4:09:29] Voice 13: so um i don't think we need to focus specifically on the fbc understanding they do have a big role

[4:09:39] Trustee Bernardo: well the the point is the fbc i think um has the skill set to get it started

[4:09:48] Trustee Bernardo: i mean it's like my concern here my concern here is again you know this business about

[4:09:54] Trustee Bernardo: needing to model a different way of doing this if we're going to go through this

[4:09:57] Trustee Bernardo: going through the stations of the cross every time we try to sort of get anything done

[4:10:01] Trustee Bernardo: we're just repeating the sins of the past i mean uh there's nothing there's nothing

[4:10:07] Trustee Bernardo: undemocratic about the idea of just getting started i

[4:10:11] Voice 13: mean i'm not uh disputing that i'm

[4:10:14] Voice 13: just saying we we are sending it through to staff to start i think there are a lot of skill sets

[4:10:19] Voice 13: across the trust council um we're not implying you don't have the skill sets we're just saying

[4:10:25] Voice 13: for this particular motion we're giving staff direction that's all um i'm not sure why there's

[4:10:33] Voice 13: the focus on the financial planning committee when the um strategic plan covers everything we do

[4:10:40] Voice 13: staff

[4:10:44] Voice 10: so uh madam chair you shut me down as soon as i'm saying something you don't want to hear okay

[4:10:52] Voice 10: okay do you have a button no you can press

[4:10:55] Voice 10: the button oh

[4:10:58] Voice 9: i made i might have a button

[4:10:59] Voice 10: well you just you just email laurie and she'll hit the button yeah

[4:11:03] Voice 9: i've got this uh participants

[4:11:05] Voice 9: thing where i can mute you go ahead and

[4:11:07] Voice 10: i appreciate the indulgence there's two ways

[4:11:09] Voice 10: this concept can go forward to my thinking one is governance committee could own it

[4:11:14] Voice 10: and then say fpc go think about this thing and come back to us and i don't think you have to

[4:11:21] Voice 10: go to rp you can go to rpc with the land use planning piece um and then you are the top of

[4:11:27] Voice 10: the triangle that manages the constituent elements underneath it and you gather those things

[4:11:31] Voice 10: the alternative view which i think is being presented here is you start with something

[4:11:36] Voice 10: and it goes to fbc and they provide the corporate backbone of where corporate planning and the

[4:11:46] Voice 10: sequence of events and the key elements that might be needed from a financial perspective

[4:11:51] Voice 10: perspective, which never goes away, despite the content. So if they provided that roadmap

[4:11:59] Voice 10: and some robustness around the thinking, they would then bring that back to you. And it would

[4:12:04] Voice 10: be your job to then go, okay, how does the strategic planning process synchronize with that

[4:12:10] Voice 10: or not? How does the communications function sequence that? No one's talked about business

[4:12:16] Voice 10: continuity and business risk for the organization. That's another function that needs to be addressed

[4:12:21] Voice 10: in a corporate planning process like risk management um so the way i'm hearing this

[4:12:28] Voice 10: resolution is that this body starts just with because here's what i don't recommend you do

[4:12:34] Voice 10: don't send the same question out to all committees and ask them to come back with their view on it

[4:12:40] Voice 10: um i don't it's best to send people things for them to contemplate as opposed to them to come

[4:12:46] Voice 10: up with ideas um so i just offer that that what i'm hearing is this is a way to sort of start this

[4:12:54] Voice 10: out no matter whether it's simple or complex it then gets the governance committee a chance to

[4:12:59] Voice 10: start looking at something and say going how does this feel or you might even need some professional

[4:13:03] Voice 10: guidance outside this organization to come in and um take a look at it i'm not sure um but there's

[4:13:10] Voice 10: those are the two options i think you have in front of you and the second one is the one

[4:13:13] Voice 10: specifically in the agenda and i apologize if i've mischaracterized anything but i think i

[4:13:20] Voice 10: think we could we could support this it wouldn't just be the admin people i would be involved in

[4:13:25] Voice 10: this we would bring marler into it to advise fpc as they do this so we would just resource it that

[4:13:31] Voice 10: way all

[4:13:36] Voice 9: right so um are we amending this are we leaving it so we're getting this motion says

[4:13:45] Voice 9: we're directing staff to work with financial planning and other standing committees

[4:13:50] Voice 9: to develop a corporate planning process that meets best practices for enterprise size and

[4:13:58] Voice 9: character similar to Islands Trust and return to governance committee with its finding by a certain

[4:14:05] Voice 9: date.

[4:14:10] Trustee Bernardo: I'm sorry to interrupt, Chair. I realized that I didn't send the completely correct

[4:14:17] Trustee Bernardo: correct text for this if I could just add something to it right thank you uh it should read GC direct

[4:14:27] Trustee Bernardo: staff to work with the FPC and understanding committees to develop uh an outline of a

[4:14:34] Trustee Bernardo: corporate planning process and that's to take into account the points that the CAO has made which is

[4:14:43] Trustee Bernardo: um there are dimensions to this thing uh and FPC is certainly not going to be able to pull it all

[4:14:49] Trustee Bernardo: all off. And as for the date, I think we're going to be in the CAO's hands to sort of give us what's

[4:14:55] Trustee Bernardo: a realistic date to expect the comeback on this. Thank you.

[4:15:00] Voice 8: Mr. Marler.

[4:15:02] Voice 2: Yeah, thank you. So I've

[4:15:04] Voice 2: just got my legislative services hat on. I just want to help you craft motions that are correct.

[4:15:10] Voice 2: So generally, this looks okay. The only thing I would recommend you change to keep it normal is

[4:15:17] Voice 2: is motion should be in the subjunctive mood.

[4:15:21] Voice 2: So I would say change the directs to direct

[4:15:24] Voice 2: with remove the S.

[4:15:25] Voice 2: I also recommend you don't use direct.

[4:15:29] Voice 2: Request is sometimes used, that's usually a better word,

[4:15:32] Voice 2: but it doesn't really matter

[4:15:34] Voice 2: as long as it's in the subjunctive, it's fine, thanks.

[4:15:37] Voice 9: All right, let's use request.

[4:15:41] Voice 9: We'll ask nicely.

[4:15:46] Voice 9: All right.

[4:15:47] Voice 9: Right. So, Christy Patrick, does that fit with what you were saying earlier?

[4:15:59] Trustee Patrick: I think so, but do we, so is the intent then to ask the other committees, so is Regional Planning

[4:16:08] Trustee Patrick: Committee going to be asked to also provide their input? So it's, when you get it back,

[4:16:13] Trustee Patrick: it's been run through all those committees, which I guess, or is it just Financial Planning

[4:16:20] Trustee Patrick: committee at this point russ

[4:16:24] Voice 9: what would you my

[4:16:25] Voice 10: recommend my recommendation is that you're asking

[4:16:28] Voice 10: fpc to take a look on your behalf and you bring it back to the governance committee for its thought

[4:16:33] Voice 10: and then if it holds water then you'd go out i don't think you need to send the same thing to

[4:16:38] Voice 10: all committees that actually slows the stuff down at the trust a little bit i think

[4:16:44] Voice 10: just just my observation but so

[4:16:47] Voice 9: take out other standing committees well

[4:16:49] Voice 10: we could refer to them

[4:16:50] Voice 10: if needed um other

[4:16:53] Trustee Bernardo: standing committees

[4:16:53] Voice 10: as needed to

[4:16:55] Trustee Bernardo: develop as required yeah as

[4:16:57] Voice 10: required um and

[4:17:01] Voice 10: keep in mind in my role i keep dc involved of like i report to them on a weekly basis

[4:17:07] Voice 10: um this is a research action that you provide function that you're providing for the betterment

[4:17:13] Voice 10: of the organization so i think this is so

[4:17:17] Voice 9: we're basically delegating the research part of it

[4:17:21] Voice 9: through a filter or focus of a financial planning committee,

[4:17:25] Voice 9: which is a major part of strategic planning.

[4:17:32] Trustee Bernardo: Yeah, that's my, I'm sorry to jump in,

[4:17:35] Trustee Bernardo: but just to clarify, that's my intention.

[4:17:38] Trustee Bernardo: That's the purpose of this resolution

[4:17:40] Trustee Bernardo: is to start the process,

[4:17:42] Trustee Bernardo: come back with an outline of a product

[4:17:45] Trustee Bernardo: for this committee to consider.

[4:17:46] Trustee Bernardo: And then this committee decides

[4:17:48] Trustee Bernardo: what the next step is, if any.

[4:17:50] Trustee Bernardo: And that would

[4:17:51] Trustee Bernardo: include, as a CEO,

[4:17:53] Trustee Bernardo: You know, I put very well, the more efficient process is if you've got a product, I mean, you can, then you can get the other committees to start stress testing and contributing as they see fit.

[4:18:05] Voice 9: Okay.

[4:18:06] Voice 9: Personally, I think I would like a wider lens than just the finance.

[4:18:11] Voice 9: So, you know, it's best practices for this analysis, the planning, strategic planning, but it certainly is, you know, a major focus from finance.

[4:18:22] Voice 9: that's you know a major part of it but sorry um trustee harris i

[4:18:30] Voice 3: was going to say something

[4:18:31] Voice 3: sort of opposite um and suggest that it's state um the staff work with financial planning committee

[4:18:38] Voice 3: primarily and other standing committees as required so there's more of a focus on the

[4:18:43] Voice 3: financial planning committee just as a jumping off point to get this done um sooner than later

[4:18:47] Voice 3: and then we take it um but just the thought that's

[4:18:51] Voice 9: a substantial amendment i think it's not

[4:18:53] Voice 9: that something that um trustee bernardo you can endorse i'm

[4:19:01] Trustee Bernardo: i'm comfortable with it um i could i

[4:19:04] Trustee Bernardo: would certainly be happy to for the financial planning committee to take the lead on it but

[4:19:08] Trustee Bernardo: that's subject to whether or not you know i'm hearing some concerns here and you know we have

[4:19:13] Trustee Bernardo: to develop a certain amount of frankness and trust here i mean if people are worried that

[4:19:17] Trustee Bernardo: that somehow fbc is going to hijack this and try to you know ram some fiscally conservative

[4:19:24] Trustee Bernardo: conservative agenda down people's throats well we might try but we won't get away with it

[4:19:32] Trustee Bernardo: well no i'm

[4:19:33] Voice 9: not i'm not into conspiracies but i'm thinking that um there's there's equal

[4:19:37] Voice 9: balancing in terms of just um you

[4:19:41] Trustee Bernardo: know well no there isn't with respect it what i what i

[4:19:46] Trustee Bernardo: i find myself in agreement here with the ceo on this which is that it's it's a pragmatic approach

[4:19:53] Trustee Bernardo: it's it's not to be more serious about this it's not about squeezing out the other interests or

[4:20:00] Trustee Bernardo: other voices of other people it's like everything has to start with the beginning okay this is just

[4:20:06] Trustee Bernardo: the beginning and then other people are going to get involved or whether it says primarily with

[4:20:11] Trustee Bernardo: the financial planning committee and other standing committee sending committees or it

[4:20:15] Trustee Bernardo: It doesn't say that. The reality is, in order to get it started, it's going to start with the FPC, because that's the community that has to get it for

[4:20:24] Voice 8: the first part of it, I think.

[4:20:27] Voice 8: Trustee Luckham.

[4:20:29] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, so I want to chime in here because I think this is a real, as indicated in the governance report, this is a real leadership opportunity and the opportunity for a committee to champion ideas and advance them.

[4:20:45] Trustee Luckham: um i've seen this in the past where it goes off and and all of a sudden it takes a different turn

[4:20:52] Trustee Luckham: um and um and um it's it slows us down so i i think that the conversation here is clear

[4:21:01] Trustee Luckham: that we want to engage with others and um those that are concerned about the activities of the

[4:21:05] Trustee Luckham: committee can certainly review the minutes and the conversation that's been held here today

[4:21:09] Trustee Luckham: and but i think this is an opportunity for leadership and to champion uh the issues and

[4:21:15] Trustee Luckham: is an example of a good governance so let's go i'm

[4:21:21] Voice 9: sorry does that mean uh leave it the way it

[4:21:24] Voice 9: is in terms of giving it over to the finance committee as opposed to somehow

[4:21:29] Voice 8: keeping control

[4:21:35] Voice 8: okay trustee middleton

[4:21:38] Trustee Luckham: sorry sorry i'm just gonna note the chair i'm sorry for interrupting

[4:21:44] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to have to go off video and go directly to phone only and I probably won't be able to participate because it doesn't look like it'll let me speak on the phone so I'll just be listening.

[4:21:54] Trustee Luckham: Thank you everybody for today.

[4:21:57] Voice 9: Trustee Middleton.

[4:21:59] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I think this is a good place to start definitely.

[4:22:06] Trustee Middleton: It sows the thread between financial planning and what we've currently called a strategic plan.

[4:22:14] Trustee Middleton: We're maybe now going to start aiming towards a corporate plan or some other wording, but it starts to build that connection.

[4:22:21] Trustee Middleton: But I think we're under no illusion.

[4:22:25] Trustee Middleton: vision. This is a very large project to come up with a corporate plan that integrates vision

[4:22:35] Trustee Middleton: and metrics for looking at our success and feedback mechanism to adjust if we need to.

[4:22:44] Trustee Middleton: And so we certainly as the governance committee are going to keep working on those components

[4:22:47] Trustee Middleton: and it'd be very helpful that the financial planning committee looks at the elements of

[4:22:52] Trustee Middleton: the plan that they're going to be looking at um and yeah it it i think this is a great way to

[4:22:59] Trustee Middleton: to get it started and then we'll look down the road at what elements we want to look at in terms

[4:23:03] Trustee Middleton: of how do you identify strategic priorities and then how does that get fed back into the funding

[4:23:09] Trustee Middleton: cycle and um um and so i i don't think anything that this motion suggests would hinder us doing

[4:23:17] Trustee Middleton: that work in the future okay so

[4:23:19] Trustee Middleton: so

[4:23:22] Voice 9: um trustee patrick you had your hand up and now you've gone

[4:23:27] Voice 9: to a full screen so um did oh you still have your hand up good i

[4:23:34] Trustee Patrick: i didn't know i didn't move

[4:23:36] Trustee Patrick: something happened on your somehow or other yeah on my end

[4:23:39] Trustee Patrick: probably no i'm not worried at all about

[4:23:41] Trustee Patrick: the fpc being involved and they absolutely do need to and the regional planning committee uh

[4:23:47] Trustee Patrick: is preparing to do an in-person strategic planning session for itself

[4:23:54] Trustee Patrick: because we've never incorporated the local planning work

[4:24:00] Trustee Patrick: of local trust committees inside the strategic plan.

[4:24:03] Trustee Patrick: So the regional planning committee is already moving in that direction

[4:24:06] Trustee Patrick: because the strategic plan, I mean, our budget processing

[4:24:10] Trustee Patrick: is going to start April 1.

[4:24:12] Trustee Patrick: We're about to start our whole process again.

[4:24:15] Trustee Patrick: So we'll be feeding into it.

[4:24:17] Trustee Patrick: good trustee scott can

[4:24:21] Voice 4: i ask is a corporate plan the same as a strategic plan yes

[4:24:27] Voice 9: could we stick

[4:24:29] Voice 4: to one phrase please we've got corporate plan here we've been using strategic plan

[4:24:34] Voice 4: all day long so i

[4:24:36] Voice 9: may be wrong

[4:24:37] Voice 10: staff don't thank you matt thank you madam chair uh no i i think

[4:24:44] Voice 10: I think they're slightly different. I think a strategic plan, you know, some of this can be semantics, but I would think a corporate plan would have the financial elements associated that trigger strategic direction and business continuity of the organization, like the staff and the buildings and, you know, our leaseholds.

[4:25:05] Voice 10: And, you know, so that's like the business continuity risk element.

[4:25:08] Voice 10: And those three or four things are sort of the corporate plan.

[4:25:12] Voice 10: Another way to think about it is some local governments have a corporate plan and decided

[4:25:17] Voice 10: a strategic plan.

[4:25:19] Voice 10: The corporate plan speaks to the more necessary budget, leaseholds, land, you know, its own

[4:25:26] Voice 10: holding, staffing, and then it has its political aspirations inside the strategic planning

[4:25:32] Voice 10: process.

[4:25:32] Voice 10: but i wouldn't get i think you have to first the islands trust hasn't thought corporately

[4:25:40] Voice 10: as much as it could so i would say it's corporate planning and the financial plan strategic plan

[4:25:46] Voice 10: are constituent elements of that until that turns out to be a bad idea i think you should think of

[4:25:50] Voice 10: it that way it's if we just do strategic planning we won't touch on all of those elements so i think

[4:25:59] Voice 10: I think this is a chance to reframe how this is done.

[4:26:02] Voice 10: The report talks about it.

[4:26:04] Voice 10: Why not follow that flow and go to think of more of a corporate function?

[4:26:11] Voice 10: So I'd go with the corporate plan.

[4:26:13] Voice 10: That's my recommendation to you.

[4:26:16] Voice 4: As long as

[4:26:17] Voice 4: we're very clear on the difference between the two, which...

[4:26:23] Voice 10: I wasn't until then.

[4:26:24] Voice 10: The problem you're about to have, and specifically Joe Bernardo's about to have,

[4:26:29] Voice 10: is that in May and June, you'll start the budget process for the next year.

[4:26:35] Voice 10: And if there's no strategic direction developed by the organization,

[4:26:42] Voice 10: the financial planning committee won't have anything to work with.

[4:26:46] Voice 10: So then you'll be not strategic planning for another year.

[4:26:50] Voice 10: So there's some timing, and that's okay,

[4:26:53] Voice 10: but you have to tell Trust Council we're thinking this over,

[4:26:57] Voice 10: or we have to come up with a strategic plan pretty darn quickly.

[4:27:01] Voice 10: So those, I think, are some of the elements that

[4:27:03] Voice 6: need to happen.

[4:27:04] Voice 10: Yeah, or a corporate plan.

[4:27:07] Voice 10: That conversation will come up in March.

[4:27:09] Voice 10: Some trustee is going to put their hand up and say, when are we starting the strategic planning process?

[4:27:13] Voice 6: And

[4:27:14] Voice 10: the budget process for that starts in May and June.

[4:27:17] Voice 10: And I don't think this body is ready for that at this point.

[4:27:21] Voice 10: Thank you.

[4:27:23] Voice 9: Trustee Bernardo?

[4:27:24] Trustee Bernardo: I don't see a problem with that because the fact of the matter is you have to start sometime.

[4:27:30] Trustee Bernardo: now's the time to do this and the reality is if we don't if we have not been able to institute

[4:27:38] Trustee Bernardo: a corporate planning process between now and then uh yeah well that's the way it goes we'll have to

[4:27:44] Trustee Bernardo: work with the system as it exists now and continue to work on the corporate planning process in the

[4:27:51] Trustee Bernardo: hopes of somehow roping it into this budget cycle if it can happen or not i mean it's just

[4:27:57] Trustee Bernardo: We work hard, try to make it happen. In that process, even if we don't have a corporate planning process established, working on it and thinking about it in those terms will affect the existing process.

[4:28:11] Trustee Bernardo: process I could easily see changes to the business case arrangements that kind of stuff

[4:28:17] Trustee Bernardo: changes to the criteria of that FPC considers certainly the FPC is going to be sensitized

[4:28:28] Trustee Bernardo: as a result of this and also the needs that we've recognized for more strategic thinking

[4:28:33] Trustee Bernardo: and engagement with the other committees so it's just a fact of life that this is what it's like

[4:28:38] Trustee Bernardo: when you're trying to change things or you're trying to ride two horses at once and you do

[4:28:42] Trustee Bernardo: your best uh i originally put my hand up here because i i wanted to address what seems to be

[4:28:48] Trustee Bernardo: this concern about how we move it forward and i'm not sure about this and i'm really looking to

[4:28:55] Trustee Bernardo: hear from trustee patrick about this uh you know just to be clear that this is not about

[4:29:01] Trustee Bernardo: fbc taking ownership of the whole thing it's just about it sort of starting the fire uh and

[4:29:07] Trustee Bernardo: And I'm wondering if the findings that come out of that process with the FPC and staff,

[4:29:14] Trustee Bernardo: it says instead of return to the governance committee, should it say return to the governance committee and the RPC?

[4:29:22] Trustee Bernardo: Because the RPC has, or the other committees?

[4:29:28] Trustee Bernardo: And I guess I'd like to hear both from Trustee Patrick and the CAO about whether or not that's advisable,

[4:29:33] Trustee Bernardo: but I'm wondering if that starts the process of input from other quarters.

[4:29:38] Trustee Bernardo: so it's not a suggestion or amendment it's a question as to whether people think that's a

[4:29:42] Trustee Bernardo: good idea or not thank you

[4:29:45] Voice 9: i'm wondering if we can call the question soon i but i we don't have

[4:29:52] Voice 9: a seconder for this motion so if there's going to be an amendment let's play with that trustee harris

[4:30:02] Voice 3: I think Lee was in front of me.

[4:30:04] Voice 3: I

[4:30:06] Voice 9: don't see his hand.

[4:30:08] Voice 9: Sorry.

[4:30:08] Voice 9: Oh, sorry.

[4:30:09] Voice 9: There you are, Lee.

[4:30:12] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[4:30:13] Trustee Middleton: I guess one can wait until after the motion.

[4:30:16] Trustee Middleton: I was just going to speak to the fact that I think we should pause our regular strategic planning process for this next year of Trust Council to give us a chance to basically integrate strategic planning and financial planning into the corporate plan.

[4:30:35] Trustee Middleton: And we could have a mechanism where we have an interim strategic plan where we choose those activities that must continue, but don't basically try to shape a plan that guides us for the next four years, because we know from the report that our tools aren't sufficient for that need.

[4:30:56] Trustee Middleton: So, you know, we can come back to that after this motion, but I would just maybe request a slight amendment to the motion.

[4:31:03] Trustee Middleton: I didn't notice this before.

[4:31:04] Trustee Middleton: I think this should be focused, this initial kickoff effort should be focused on the financial planning committee to, I think, our CEO's point, burdening ourselves with too much intercommittee communication at this point will just slow us down.

[4:31:18] Trustee Middleton: And when it comes back to the governance committee, we can then shape or frame it and put it out to other committees for the kind of input we feel is missing or that we need.

[4:31:27] Trustee Middleton: so i would um i i i would offer this as a friendly amendment it may not be felt that way but that we

[4:31:34] Trustee Middleton: just removed the phrase and other standing committees um as required from that motion

[4:31:45] Trustee Bernardo: just to clarify i don't object to that but i'm in the hands of the rest of the committee as to

[4:31:51] Trustee Bernardo: whether or not they want to do that or not but i don't object to it is

[4:31:57] Voice 9: it not a good idea for staff

[4:31:59] Voice 9: staff to um have contact and and questions and input from other standing committees as required

[4:32:05] Voice 9: if it appears to be appropriate it leaves it as an option um

[4:32:13] Trustee Middleton: I would I well what I would I would

[4:32:15] Trustee Middleton: say just if with your velocity chair in response is that that will be happening this is sort of

[4:32:20] Trustee Middleton: the kickoff point for an initial outline uh as as hashed out by the financial planning committee it

[4:32:27] Trustee Middleton: It comes back to us, and then we guide that process as to how we want to see the foundational

[4:32:33] Trustee Middleton: work the FPC did built on, where we aspire to a vision and then work backwards to fund

[4:32:39] Trustee Middleton: it, and basically that creates the corporate plan.

[4:32:43] Trustee Middleton: So I'd say it's in our hands, and would that happen, the activity you just suggested?

[4:32:47] Trustee Middleton: Yes, it would, but I think further down the road.

[4:32:53] Voice 9: Okay.

[4:32:54] Voice 9: Now, we are running out of time, so we've got two other major things to discuss.

[4:32:59] Voice 9: So Trustee Harris.

[4:33:02] Voice 3: I'll keep it short.

[4:33:04] Voice 3: Thank you, Madam Chair.

[4:33:06] Voice 3: I'm in full support of what Trustee Middleton

[4:33:10] Voice 3: has just outlined,

[4:33:13] Voice 3: you know, in the spirit of showing good leadership

[4:33:16] Voice 3: from possibly from the GC at this point and being firm

[4:33:20] Voice 3: and would also let us then be able to send out the findings

[4:33:25] Voice 3: to the other committees afterward.

[4:33:27] Voice 3: word and it would also expedite the process, something that I think has been a problem

[4:33:34] Voice 3: in the past and maybe that's something we can start right now by trying to address that.

[4:33:41] Voice 3: So I would support what Lee Middleton has just mentioned about removing other standing

[4:33:45] Voice 3: committees as required and then adding that the governance committee will then put this

[4:33:52] Voice 3: out to the other standing other standing committees um once received and um and examined

[4:34:00] Voice 9: trustee patrick i mean

[4:34:06] Trustee Patrick: yeah no i'm sorry i'm just i'm trying to form words um because i mean we

[4:34:15] Trustee Patrick: can't just say we're going to not do strategic planning or put it off for a year because we're

[4:34:19] Trustee Patrick: going to have to we are going to we're going right into the budget cycling process it's not going to

[4:34:24] Trustee Patrick: to be perfect we're not going to have a finished corporate plan but i think the key part is i see

[4:34:30] Trustee Patrick: and one of the words that's missing from this motion now is sort of the elements or the

[4:34:33] Trustee Patrick: the of a corporate plan um there's certainly things that should come as recommendations to

[4:34:40] Trustee Patrick: start this year so if a regional planning committee is starting to work on coming up with ways to

[4:34:47] Voice 6: what

[4:34:48] Trustee Patrick: how to start they want to do their strategic planning for the whole four years

[4:34:53] Trustee Patrick: of including local trust committee work are there metrics you know should we should we be

[4:34:58] Trustee Patrick: considering metrics as as we do it you know so there should be things that come out this year

[4:35:03] Trustee Patrick: that we start applying as soon as possible so there is some urgency of parts of this

[4:35:16] Trustee Bernardo: trustee bernardo okay uh in the interest of time and uh everything else uh let's see if we can

[4:35:23] Trustee Bernardo: advance this uh somewhat uh before i make the motion i hear what trustee patrick is saying

[4:35:29] Trustee Bernardo: uh that that's um but with respect i think we i don't think we should be anticipating what the

[4:35:38] Trustee Bernardo: contents of the outline should be uh it makes perfect sense what trustee patrick is saying

[4:35:44] Trustee Bernardo: that that something like metrics uh you know there's an urgency to that because that's

[4:35:51] Trustee Bernardo: something that we probably want to have sooner rather than later so it can be fed into the

[4:35:56] Trustee Bernardo: existing planning process to the extent that we can work with it uh again that's i think something

[4:36:03] Trustee Bernardo: that we maybe i'm being naive but i'm just kind of confident that yeah i mean that's what the

[4:36:08] Trustee Bernardo: financial planning committee is going to be focused on and working with and uh as chair of

[4:36:15] Trustee Bernardo: of the RPC, Trustee Patrick Happily is on the FPC.

[4:36:19] Trustee Bernardo: And I think just as a practical matter,

[4:36:23] Trustee Bernardo: we have the right voices available

[4:36:26] Trustee Bernardo: to go in the direction that we need to go

[4:36:29] Trustee Bernardo: and to satisfy those concerns.

[4:36:32] Trustee Bernardo: So we've got to get started as I keep repeating here.

[4:36:37] Trustee Bernardo: So I'm going to move after hearing

[4:36:39] Trustee Bernardo: what people have got to say here.

[4:36:41] Trustee Bernardo: here I'm not concerned about the FPC and staff getting distracted as the chair pointed out the

[4:36:53] Trustee Bernardo: it is staffs being asked to work with the FPC and other standing committees as required

[4:37:01] Trustee Bernardo: I would just adjust the wording slightly just to be a little clearer grammatically and then we do

[4:37:06] Trustee Bernardo: have that flexibility I don't think a heck of a lot turns on whether standing committee language

[4:37:10] Trustee Bernardo: which is there or not, because as has been mentioned,

[4:37:13] Trustee Bernardo: that consultation is going to happen.

[4:37:15] Trustee Bernardo: So I'm going to suggest, I'm going to move this,

[4:37:17] Trustee Bernardo: that the governance committee request staff

[4:37:18] Trustee Bernardo: to work with the financial planning committee

[4:37:22] Trustee Bernardo: and comma, as required, comma,

[4:37:30] Trustee Bernardo: other standing committees to develop an outline

[4:37:35] Trustee Bernardo: of a corporate planning process and meets best practices

[4:37:38] Trustee Bernardo: for enterprises of a size and character

[4:37:40] Trustee Bernardo: similar to the Islands Trust

[4:37:41] Trustee Bernardo: and return to the governance committee with its findings

[4:37:44] Trustee Bernardo: by cao perhaps you could give me a date um

[4:37:56] Voice 10: your next contemplated meeting that's coming up to

[4:38:01] Voice 10: that decisions in april 14th that might be tight but i think you could we could be well onto the

[4:38:10] Voice 10: work by then you might be able to report out to trust council by june april 14th april 14th first

[4:38:20] Voice 10: some initial that's your next governance committee so i'd suggest an update back to

[4:38:26] Voice 10: governance committee it won't be probably finished we've got a trust council to get

[4:38:31] Voice 10: through and all that kind of stuff i i don't know how often fpc meets in that window

[4:38:36] Voice 10: but um i'd expect we would have initial thoughts to come back for

[4:38:42] Voice 10: april 14th it won't be complete

[4:38:46] Voice 10: i'll tell you that but

[4:38:47] Trustee Bernardo: that's fair enough that's understood and that's

[4:38:50] Trustee Bernardo: it that's the resolution

[4:38:51] Voice 8: seconder

[4:38:54] Voice 9: um trustee stamford all right um so it's moved by uh bernardo i'm not sure m is

[4:39:02] Voice 9: but um all right any more discussion all those in favor raise your hand say i thank you

[4:39:12] Voice 9: looks like it's unanimous and are there any in a in opposition good no all right so

[4:39:21] Voice 9: So that's our I think our work plan for the next meeting. That's the I'm going to tweak that chart and send it out to you as some sort of a summary of this.

[4:39:38] Voice 9: And what's left on the agenda is some sort of a discussion about the draft schedule of meeting dates, 7.2 and 10, the work program, reporting out to the Trust Council.

[4:39:59] Voice 9: So, can we pull up the draft schedule?

[4:40:05] Voice 9: Do everybody have a chance to look at that?

[4:40:09] Voice 5: No.

[4:40:11] Voice 5: i

[4:40:16] Voice 9: think there were four meetings that were yeah

[4:40:19] Voice 10: i'm not i'm sure we can provide you an overview

[4:40:21] Voice 10: just quickly for everybody who hasn't read it maybe april

[4:40:26] Voice 9: 17th may 29th july 31st and october

[4:40:28] Voice 9: 16th so two months from now um next month is the trust council so the month after that and then may

[4:40:39] Voice 9: and then there's a june trust council correct there

[4:40:43] Voice 11: is and

[4:40:44] Voice 9: then july and the next one would

[4:40:47] Voice 9: be october do

[4:40:53] Voice 10: you want a quick summary madam chair or no sure yep so other committees there's

[4:40:58] Voice 10: no nightmare like a new standing committee and looking down and seeing how can we sequence it

[4:41:02] Voice 10: with trust council um i don't think humbly that you're as pegged to the trust council schedule

[4:41:09] Voice 10: as other committees um but that's for you to determine this is laurie's work she's gone

[4:41:16] Voice 10: to look at available dates when most of you would be available this you've had two meetings if you

[4:41:24] Voice 10: have these other four meetings that's six sort of official meeting notwithstanding some sub-quorum

[4:41:30] Voice 10: of trustees gets together and thinks something through and brings it back um so i don't know if

[4:41:37] Voice 10: lori wants to mention anything but we've tried to get you sequenced with trust council the best way

[4:41:41] Voice 10: we can but it's not necessarily perfect and there is a little bit of a delay in the process so

[4:41:46] Voice 10: bit of time between july 31st and october 16th you see but this is really what we have to offer

[4:41:52] Voice 10: given all the other committees and the pending accessibility committee that's coming on and

[4:41:57] Voice 10: potentially another reconciliation body as well so if you approve this rfd we would make these

[4:42:05] Voice 10: your meeting dates trustee

[4:42:12] Voice 9: scott your name your hand was up and it's gone now any discussion

[4:42:20] Voice 9: question sorry

[4:42:25] Voice 8: um go ahead um i'm not in favor of meeting on july 31st um the

[4:42:35] Voice 4: summer it's uh

[4:42:38] Voice 4: it's cornby islands creek is full of activity and everything family and gonna be here and i i'm just

[4:42:44] Voice 4: not

[4:42:45] Voice 8: in favor of it thank you is the um june

[4:42:57] Voice 9: trust meeting in person well

[4:43:00] Voice 10: they're all contemplated

[4:43:02] Voice 10: to be in person but we we have some mildly bad news in in and this is preempting ec meeting on

[4:43:10] Voice 10: monday but right now for the locations that have been indicated for trust council for june which

[4:43:17] Voice 10: we normally plan a year ahead for a live meeting we don't have venues so it might be electronic

[4:43:26] Voice 10: by just a practical matter um and that might have some budget implications but that's another story

[4:43:32] Voice 10: So, right now, it's supposed to be live somewhere, that Trust Council meeting, but there are current events in play.

[4:43:43] Voice 9: Trustee Stamford?

[4:43:46] Voice 13: Yes, in reference to Trustee Scott, I do understand his concern about the summer schedule on Hornby.

[4:43:53] Voice 13: But I thought Trustee Scott is here as an ex officio member for the Islands Trust Conservancy.

[4:44:00] Voice 13: see um so um you know if the rest of us can make it um it would be important to have that meeting

[4:44:10] Voice 13: a

[4:44:12] Voice 9: long time in between from may until october certainly

[4:44:16] Voice 4: yeah absolutely

[4:44:17] Voice 4: if you if you want to have that meeting at all i'll try to make it or

[4:44:22] Voice 4: i'll see how yeah schedule we'll see how it works thank you any other comments

[4:44:32] Voice 11: Laurie, do you want to come on screen? Do you have anything to add here?

[4:44:40] Voice 14: The only thing is after determining the dates is the in-person or the electronic formats.

[4:44:47] Voice 10: So I think financially we've allowed for one in-person meeting.

[4:44:53] Voice 10: And you don't have to make necessarily that decision right now.

[4:44:56] Voice 10: But as you look at this, you might want to sit face to face at some point or not.

[4:45:08] Voice 8: trustee samford yes

[4:45:13] Voice 13: if everybody's ready i'd like to put the motion on the floor

[4:45:15] Voice 13: that the governance committee adopt the meeting dates of april 17th may 29th july 31st october

[4:45:22] Voice 13: 16th for the 2023 calendar year

[4:45:25] Voice 9: seconder to trustee bernardo and any sorry any more discussion

[4:45:34] Voice 8: discussion okay all those in favor okay unanimous all right in person or electronic

[4:45:50] Voice 8: your hand's still up um

[4:45:52] Voice 13: uh yeah i'd like to see one electronic or sorry one in person i mean

[4:45:58] Voice 13: if possible trustee

[4:46:01] Voice 4: scott i'd like to see them all electronic thank you i'd rather i'd rather

[4:46:07] Voice 4: focused to trust council meetings on meeting with people rather than the committee here or the or

[4:46:15] Voice 4: the conservancy sonia that would be my priority to have them all electronic thank you trustee bernardo

[4:46:24] Trustee Bernardo: uh yes i was just gonna uh suggest that uh perhaps we can just defer the decision until

[4:46:29] Trustee Bernardo: another meeting i'm not sure or do we need or perhaps staff clarify whether or not we need to

[4:46:35] Trustee Bernardo: book it now in order to sort of

[4:46:38] Trustee Bernardo: No. Let's just have to

[4:46:40] Trustee Bernardo: organize it.

[4:46:41] Voice 11: No. You've

[4:46:42] Voice 11: got some time. But it

[4:46:44] Voice 10: has to be 10 days from a legislative

[4:46:46] Voice 10: perspective out ahead of that. Isn't that

[4:46:48] Voice 10: right, Laurie? I think it's 10 days that you have to indicate

[4:46:50] Voice 10: whether the location of a

[4:46:52] Voice 10: public meeting. At least

[4:46:54] Voice 14: 48 hours. Oh.

[4:46:57] Voice 10: Even less so.

[4:46:58] Trustee Bernardo: Well, I'm going to suggest

[4:46:59] Trustee Bernardo: that can we defer

[4:47:00] Trustee Bernardo: the decision perhaps to the next meeting?

[4:47:04] Trustee Bernardo: Okay. And then we'll decide then.

[4:47:05] Trustee Bernardo: that's

[4:47:06] Voice 9: april 17th okay so in person or electronic decision over to april the 17th

[4:47:13] Voice 9: do we need a motion to that electronically

[4:47:16] Voice 14: is april 17 going to be electronic then yes yes i

[4:47:22] Voice 9: believe so yeah okay can we agree on april 17th is electronic and we'll just bump this over to that

[4:47:30] Voice 9: date hands raised okay let's do that thanks so work program what are we going to report to

[4:47:39] Voice 9: our trust colleagues what are you going to report because i'm not going to be there

[4:47:49] Voice 9: tell them that we've looked at and everybody's done a summary and that that's available

[4:47:53] Voice 9: in the documents and that we went through those summaries and came up with our

[4:47:57] Voice 9: high priority high urgency and we're doing some homework on that and we're going to um

[4:48:05] Voice 9: be going forward with a strategic planning through or corporate planning with the finance committee

[4:48:13] Voice 8: anything else that we're working well we're all

[4:48:17] Voice 9: intelligent we've done our homework

[4:48:19] Voice 9: showed up for long meetings we've been collegial

[4:48:22] Trustee Bernardo: three of those five are right um

[4:48:25] Trustee Bernardo: Um, that was a joke folks.

[4:48:28] Trustee Bernardo: Uh, I think

[4:48:30] Trustee Bernardo: if I can pipe in, uh, I think, uh, what you're saying makes sense.

[4:48:36] Trustee Bernardo: We'll just report what we've done in a summary fashion.

[4:48:38] Trustee Bernardo: And, uh, I think we've made a certain amount of progress

[4:48:42] Trustee Bernardo: here for a new committee.

[4:48:43] Trustee Bernardo: I mean, we're getting some traction.

[4:48:44] Trustee Bernardo: We're actually doing things.

[4:48:46] Trustee Bernardo: Uh, that's a good start.

[4:48:47] Trustee Bernardo: So there you go.

[4:48:49] Trustee Bernardo: I think that report makes a lot of sense.

[4:48:51] Trustee Bernardo: Thank you.

[4:48:54] Trustee Bernardo: Staff.

[4:48:54] Trustee Bernardo: Ralph.

[4:48:55] Voice 10: Madam Chair, I think you should report the following four things that you met and you had

[4:49:00] Voice 10: your priority discussions and these are what they are. I think you should indicate that you're

[4:49:05] Voice 10: looking at the open meetings and meeting administration question. I think you should

[4:49:12] Voice 10: say you've redirected the corporate planning thing as his initial thing to financial planning

[4:49:16] Voice 10: committee um and the last was um research uh or indication around um what part three of the

[4:49:24] Voice 10: islands trust act means and collating that information for some future trust council

[4:49:28] Voice 10: discussion and we can either put that in a brief for you to sign off or you could write that and

[4:49:35] Voice 10: then we could um a summary of those things and put it on most committees would do some version

[4:49:39] Voice 10: of what i've described you

[4:49:41] Voice 9: could do that for me

[4:49:42] Voice 10: excellent

[4:49:43] Voice 9: that

[4:49:45] Voice 10: that sounds like a voluntold but uh

[4:49:48] Voice 10: um i don't think it has to be i think all right

[4:49:52] Voice 9: i'll write something real

[4:49:53] Voice 10: yeah yeah i'll write

[4:49:55] Voice 10: something

[4:49:55] Voice 9: up and if i can do it on paper that's fine um trustee harris you're going to be at the

[4:50:01] Voice 9: meeting and you're going to be talking about the um request for us to get on to the financial

[4:50:07] Voice 9: financial planning committee yes

[4:50:09] Voice 3: okay

[4:50:10] Voice 9: and the budget do we have to speak to that that budget

[4:50:15] Voice 9: item it was the last action item no okay you

[4:50:18] Voice 10: made a motion last meeting and that's gone to forward

[4:50:21] Voice 10: to fpc right

[4:50:22] Voice 9: i think that is everything that is on we don't have anything for a closed meeting

[4:50:26] Voice 9: we've got the next meeting

[4:50:28] Voice 4: glory's got her hand up there g sorry

[4:50:32] Voice 14: i just want

[4:50:34] Voice 14: to clarify your start

[4:50:37] Voice 14: It was nine o'clock today. We lost a person. So just want to know what time you start. These meetings are all on Mondays, by the way. Start time.

[4:50:47] Voice 13: It was my bad. I just didn't. I assume that our meetings always start at 10, but I should read more carefully.

[4:50:53] Voice 13: It

[4:50:54] Voice 9: can

[4:50:55] Voice 11: be whatever you wish.

[4:50:58] Voice 9: So April 17th is a Monday. And the nine actually worked pretty well for me.

[4:51:07] Voice 9: Anybody works

[4:51:08] Voice 4: well for me anybody

[4:51:11] Voice 9: got a problem with it, other than keeping track getting the alarm set all right let's do nine i'm not sure that we need to go till two every time but.

[4:51:21] Voice 9: we'll see if we get our business done by lunchtime and and early alright so motion to adjourn Thank you everybody trustee Stanford and trustee Harris first and second and.

[4:51:35] Voice 9: And we'll see you on the 17th.

[4:51:38] Voice 9: I won't be at the Trust Council meeting.

[4:51:40] Voice 9: So I'm getting knee replacement surgery on the 17th this month.

[4:51:45] Voice 9: So I'm going to be, I might be there by Zoom,

[4:51:48] Voice 9: but otherwise I'm going to be high on painkillers and moaning a lot.

[4:51:54] Voice 6: Thank

[4:51:55] Voice 9: you, Mary Jane.

[4:51:56] Voice 9: Thank you.

[4:51:56] Voice 9: Thanks.

[4:51:57] Voice 9: Well, that's on the record too.

[4:51:58] Voice 9: Yeah, great.

[4:52:01] Voice 2: Thank you.

[4:52:01] Voice 2: Bye-bye.