Islands Trust Council regular meeting, September 6, 2023

[0:00:00] Voice 10: in recording all

[0:00:01] Trustee Patrick: right everybody ready to go not seeing any objections thumbs up let's

[0:00:06] Trustee Patrick: start this off so i'd like to call this meeting of the regional planning committee to order

[0:00:13] Trustee Patrick: i acknowledge that we are gathering today all across the territories of the coast salish peoples

[0:00:19] Trustee Patrick: i know that each one of us on this committee along with the staff are deeply committed

[0:00:25] Trustee Patrick: to reconciliation and our journey of learning and relationship building

[0:00:30] Trustee Patrick: as it relates to our lives, and in particular, to this position and to the obligations of this

[0:00:37] Trustee Patrick: office. Before I call for approval of the agenda, I want to acknowledge that this is a very full

[0:00:44] Trustee Patrick: agenda that will challenge our abilities to provide meaningful leadership. The other day,

[0:00:51] Trustee Patrick: I rode the ferry over to meet with Toby in Crofton, and I rode the ferry with a

[0:00:58] Trustee Patrick: a lovely family and their three children leaving Salt Spring because of the unstable housing

[0:01:06] Trustee Patrick: on the island. And they were able to find it on Vancouver Island. This was a person who worked

[0:01:12] Trustee Patrick: on a biodiversity foundation, someone who truly embraces the lives of the islands.

[0:01:19] Trustee Patrick: I'll also remind you of the words that our Vice Chair Sam Bothrick presented to us in an earlier

[0:01:24] Trustee Patrick: meeting. What are the seeds that we're planting today to cultivate the islands of the future?

[0:01:30] Trustee Patrick: This committee needs to lead the effort of leaving reactionary responses behind and to

[0:01:38] Trustee Patrick: drive proactive planning.

[0:01:41] Trustee Patrick: We're not alone.

[0:01:42] Trustee Patrick: I've been reading all the strategic plans coming out from all the various communities

[0:01:45] Trustee Patrick: and Whistler's said Whistler's at a critical juncture in its evolution and decisions and

[0:01:51] Trustee Patrick: actions taken now will define its future success and character.

[0:01:54] Trustee Patrick: I like Sam's words better, but they're saying the same thing. And I like their focus areas in their strategic plan. They're focusing on strengthening their First Nations relationships. They're allowing room for innovative problem solving and approaches and articulating Whistler's capacity constraints and future implications.

[0:02:16] Trustee Patrick: I mean, are we doing anything different?

[0:02:22] Trustee Patrick: My challenge today as we go through the agenda is, do we understand the problems?

[0:02:29] Trustee Patrick: Because we live on an island that are islands that are inherently constrained, are we employing

[0:02:34] Trustee Patrick: innovative and creative, innovation and creativity in solving those problems?

[0:02:42] Trustee Patrick: And are we doing it in a way that will help us realize our vision of cultivating equitable,

[0:02:47] Trustee Patrick: inclusive and resilient communities in the environment so nothing nothing short of

[0:02:53] Trustee Patrick: challenges for us today and we have an agenda before us are there any additions or changes

[0:02:59] Trustee Patrick: to the agenda and i guess i should also look before i just barreled on forward sam did you

[0:03:04] Trustee Patrick: have anything you wanted to add as a vice chair of kicking off the meeting

[0:03:10] Voice 15: no i think you captured

[0:03:12] Voice 15: captured my my feelings uh pretty succinctly um yeah i mean that's there's there's a lot here

[0:03:19] Voice 15: um and i think there's yeah there's gonna be a lot to discuss but uh i'm also you know i've got

[0:03:26] Voice 15: a very dear friend who's about to depart possibly forever from my island uh and i'm uh in no small

[0:03:34] Voice 15: part i mean she's got a two not quite two year old but i'm very fond of that it's uh a little

[0:03:39] Voice 15: heartbreaking to lose a person who's become a big part of our lives and they're not alone um so

[0:03:44] Voice 15: it's uh very near and dear to my heart to do what we can to change what's going on

[0:03:51] Trustee Patrick: thank you sam for

[0:03:53] Trustee Patrick: sharing sharing that okay we have an agenda before us are there any addition that i can speak english

[0:04:02] Trustee Patrick: addition or changes to the agenda and i see um mary mullen's hand up go ahead

[0:04:10] Voice 12: thanks um my hand is yeah my anyway my hand is up thank you uh i would like to add a very short

[0:04:18] Voice 12: introduction from me to opportunities for funding from the province some research that i've done

[0:04:29] Voice 12: and that I believe could present an opportunity to us.

[0:04:35] Voice 12: I've condensed it as much as I can,

[0:04:37] Voice 12: and I can follow up with some information that provides more,

[0:04:41] Voice 12: but I am really keen to just spread the word a bit

[0:04:45] Voice 12: about what I think is an opportunity.

[0:04:47] Voice 12: Thanks.

[0:04:49] Trustee Patrick: Can we add that under the business case conversation

[0:04:53] Trustee Patrick: or in that time of the agenda package?

[0:04:56] Voice 12: Sure.

[0:04:56] Voice 12: Sure. It fits in a number of slots, but that would probably be a good place to put it.

[0:05:02] Voice 12: So maybe at the end of the, so it would be at the end after 7.2 main business that you have there.

[0:05:09] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[0:05:10] Voice 12: 7.3, we'll call it that. All right.

[0:05:14] Voice 7: Thank you.

[0:05:15] Voice 7: Any other changes?

[0:05:20] Voice 7: Thank

[0:05:21] Voice 4: you, Chair. I may have missed this, but Trustee Yates had advanced from the Gabriel LTC request

[0:05:27] Voice 4: request for consideration of shoreline mapping and review to be considered as part of the work

[0:05:36] Voice 4: program. And I'm just not seeing it here. I know adding anything at this point, but I just wanted

[0:05:44] Voice 4: to make sure that that request was not.

[0:05:46] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, was that in our last agenda package? I'll look at

[0:05:48] Trustee Patrick: the stuff in CIRMAC. I do remember seeing that.

[0:05:53] Voice 2: Good morning, RPC, Madam Chair. So you've had

[0:05:57] Voice 2: communications from the respective um ltcs that have asked for that i believe that's uh gabriola

[0:06:04] Voice 2: gambier and perhaps another um don't have it we did uh have staff working to some degree we did

[0:06:11] Voice 2: have staff working on putting together a uh report for this this meeting and unfortunately weren't

[0:06:16] Voice 2: able to meet the timelines due to vacations and the crushing agenda of ltcs in the north

[0:06:21] Voice 2: so that was rpm uh jammer so um something had to give and that was what it was but it will be

[0:06:27] Voice 2: be coming forward to the RPC in next, I guess, November. And so she was very close to finishing.

[0:06:34] Voice 2: It just couldn't quite make the deadline, unfortunately. So, but it's heard and it's

[0:06:38] Voice 2: been, so that what she's doing is putting together that request plus some background

[0:06:41] Voice 2: information. So it's in context.

[0:06:44] Trustee Patrick: All right. Thank you. All right. Any other

[0:06:46] Trustee Patrick: questions about the agenda or comments? Can we approve the agenda as amended through general

[0:06:52] Trustee Patrick: consent? There you go. Not seeing any objections. So we'll do that. Thank you.

[0:06:57] Trustee Patrick: we do have a public comment period but i noticed there is no one in the uh attendees so we'll move

[0:07:04] Trustee Patrick: on no delegations planned we have correspondence today from um harleen holm regarding freshwater

[0:07:11] Trustee Patrick: sustainability are there any actions necessary with this one other than that we'll receive it

[0:07:20] Trustee Patrick: for information i see uh trustee bother hi

[0:07:26] Voice 15: and i will try to be brief here i have a lot of notes

[0:07:29] Voice 15: Um, I, uh, Arlene Holm is a, a former trustee, um, and, uh, a resident of Demet Island.

[0:07:38] Voice 15: She's been very engaged with the trust for a very long time, has a lot of, uh, a lot

[0:07:43] Voice 15: of knowledge.

[0:07:43] Voice 15: Um, and she's also an incredible steward of, of the land that she lives on.

[0:07:49] Voice 15: Um, and, uh, there's a lot in here that's, that's, um, I think actionable and interesting.

[0:07:56] Voice 15: interesting. And there's some parts where I really just, I guess, have questions that

[0:08:02] Voice 15: I think would be good to sort of hammer out. But I also want to respect the RPC's time.

[0:08:09] Voice 15: So I will try to rip through pretty quick if that's all right with everyone.

[0:08:15] Voice 7: No, proceed.

[0:08:19] Voice 15: So

[0:08:19] Voice 7: yeah, I'm going to just pull up my version of this because I can see what I'm

[0:08:23] Voice 7: talking to ah there we go there we go yeah i mean there's

[0:08:43] Voice 15: a lot of stuff talking and obviously we're

[0:08:44] Voice 15: we're you know we're engaging in in freshwater mapping stuff there there are concerns and i've

[0:08:50] Voice 15: heard this from a couple of quarters um and i wanted to just sort of get a better understanding

[0:08:56] Voice 15: for myself what are the the the main um methods by which we're doing freshwater mapping on the

[0:09:05] Voice 15: the islands um because there's a lot of uh pre-digital information and mapping that exists

[0:09:12] Voice 15: um that certainly in my conversations with harley and she feels we're not being uh integrated or

[0:09:20] Voice 15: we're being um superseded by by uh drone or digital mapping which doesn't capture everything

[0:09:28] Voice 15: there's she she has a specific area that she cites as having been missed uh in this process

[0:09:34] Voice 15: And I guess I'm just curious, and I wanted to just get a sense for myself of what methodology is there.

[0:09:41] Voice 15: And I know this is a bit unfair because William's not here.

[0:09:44] Voice 15: But yeah, is there an awareness or is there a sense that we're losing some of this definition and mapping?

[0:09:58] Voice 15: I'm curious.

[0:09:58] Voice 15: is what's the yeah

[0:10:00] Trustee Patrick: what my suggestion because we do have a busy agenda package today and we don't

[0:10:05] Trustee Patrick: have um i didn't

[0:10:07] Trustee Patrick: i can go in shilpa here is that how um do we need a resolution to request that we

[0:10:13] Trustee Patrick: have an item on the maybe november's getting full but i think it would be a good idea to review sort

[0:10:18] Trustee Patrick: of the status of mapping and and actions on the various islands um although the timing of that

[0:10:28] Trustee Patrick: that from a budgeting standpoint,

[0:10:31] Trustee Patrick: I noticed there was a comment that there's mapping

[0:10:34] Trustee Patrick: that hasn't been done on certain islands,

[0:10:36] Trustee Patrick: but yet there's no budget request

[0:10:38] Trustee Patrick: for further mapping for next year.

[0:10:42] Trustee Patrick: So I don't know if we need to have an agenda item

[0:10:44] Trustee Patrick: in the future meeting.

[0:10:45] Trustee Patrick: Perhaps

[0:10:46] Voice 15: I will schedule a meeting with William Shula

[0:10:51] Voice 15: and sort of go through some of my questions with him

[0:10:54] Voice 15: directly and then I can report back to the RBC

[0:10:56] Voice 15: with what I find.

[0:10:58] Voice 15: that

[0:10:58] Trustee Patrick: i think

[0:11:01] Trustee Patrick: a status okay i think a status though would be a good thing to have in a future meeting

[0:11:05] Trustee Patrick: on sort of an

[0:11:06] Trustee Patrick: update on the strategic plan where we are where we're going um because it's easy to

[0:11:12] Trustee Patrick: get lost on all of that you see trustee elliott uh thank you chair um yeah

[0:11:17] Voice 4: follow up on that i

[0:11:18] Voice 4: i would like to at some point have a broader conversation about mapping um and the shared

[0:11:26] Voice 4: resources between the islands trust conservancy and planning staff and i've been flagged at a

[0:11:33] Voice 4: number of by a of a number of deficiencies in either information sharing um or at the

[0:11:40] Voice 4: conservancy there is discussion that just like you said trustee borthwick the data that's been

[0:11:45] Voice 4: gathered by consultants has not been entered into our mapping systems because we do not have

[0:11:51] Voice 4: capacity in terms of staff or time and so going back decades this is not just a

[0:11:57] Voice 4: freshwater issue this is a wholesale information and technology synergy issue

[0:12:04] Voice 4: so there I think there's a lot of questions here maybe it's not captured

[0:12:09] Voice 4: in just this letter but there's there's a mapping project I think that we need

[0:12:15] Voice 4: to look at in terms of how the information is being used and are we

[0:12:19] Voice 4: accessing the information we've already paid to collect oh

[0:12:25] Trustee Patrick: this project's getting bigger chair

[0:12:26] Trustee Patrick: luckham

[0:12:27] Trustee Luckham: i i don't want to make anything bigger that's for sure but out of respect to harleen

[0:12:33] Trustee Luckham: home who is certainly an active participant in the denman ltc and a council historically

[0:12:39] Trustee Luckham: and is very knowledgeable and out of respect for the work that our staff and the professionals

[0:12:45] Trustee Luckham: involved have been doing with respect to the water project and indeed there's a lot of depth

[0:12:53] Trustee Luckham: and breadth and information that's out there that may not be necessarily obvious to this council

[0:12:59] Trustee Luckham: and so perhaps if it's inappropriate and I'll just through the chair staff would it be

[0:13:07] Trustee Luckham: inappropriate for us to request um that this letter be forwarded to the to stat or to staff

[0:13:15] Trustee Luckham: and that uh um uh consideration of the items that you know some consideration of the items

[0:13:22] Trustee Luckham: uh identified in the correspondence um

[0:13:27] Trustee Patrick: as i said i think step one of uh trustee borthwick

[0:13:31] Trustee Patrick: perhaps sitting down with staff and narrowing down the conversation might be useful um and then come

[0:13:39] Trustee Patrick: come back but uh trustee borthwick yeah

[0:13:42] Voice 15: i found the one part that i really wanted to to sort of

[0:13:45] Voice 15: pull out and this um this ties in that this this is this is broader implications than just

[0:13:52] Voice 15: uh freshwater mapping it's but the the the quote i thought that was really uh phenomenal in here

[0:13:59] Voice 15: and i feel is germane to a lot of what what we're dealing with and what i've seen in the last year

[0:14:04] Voice 15: is um the eternal present should not be the starting point for research and planning

[0:14:10] Voice 15: um and i just like there's there's so much information there's so much knowledge and and

[0:14:16] Voice 15: there's a lot of it that's local uh brilliant really brilliant local knowledge um and there are

[0:14:22] Voice 15: there there are serious freshwater issues and i i mean i'm obviously most acquainted with with

[0:14:29] Voice 15: with denman um but i know that um our seniors housing project didn't get off the ground because

[0:14:36] Voice 15: in in in no small part because a huge delay that centered around um a a creek which was not

[0:14:44] Voice 15: actually a creek it was a ditch that had been dug by a by a person um and so the but we seem to keep

[0:14:51] Voice 15: coming back to starting these processes again adding new studies doing more research and then

[0:14:57] Voice 15: we're not actually ever progressing to the the doing component um so yeah the eternal present

[0:15:03] Voice 15: should not be the starting point for research and planning is a banger of a quote. But yeah,

[0:15:08] Voice 15: I look forward to, I'll reach out to Staff Shulba and I look forward to having those

[0:15:12] Voice 15: conversations and figuring out how we can move past the eternal present, or at least make the

[0:15:19] Voice 15: eternal present more fruitful. Anyways, thank you.

[0:15:22] Trustee Patrick: No, thank you. And I mean, this is a very good

[0:15:25] Trustee Patrick: point as we go forward. Any of these large mapping projects are inherently challenging,

[0:15:29] Trustee Patrick: And you lose a lot of information when you do that. I'll give an example of our specialized ecosystems that we think are protected. We map them, but yet we know that the cedars are dying. But we've got places on our islands where they're thriving, yet they are outside some of these protected areas.

[0:15:51] Trustee Patrick: So on a lot side specific, we have to look at the kind of the micro ecosystems that exist that don't get captured in these large projects and that we make sure that our decisions are based on what really is there and what's happening in that location.

[0:16:06] Trustee Patrick: So thank you. I'll let you proceed with the meeting with staff on this item and we'll just receive it for information at this time. More to come as we sort all this out.

[0:16:17] Trustee Patrick: okay the next item on uh correspondence is uh is from uh mr peterson um who is

[0:16:26] Trustee Patrick: i guess he's not the on this committee um i think it's kind of funny his i know he was on this

[0:16:36] Trustee Patrick: committee with us last year and uh um and i in particular i was not in support of this approach

[0:16:42] Trustee Patrick: that we ended up taking so i don't know if we want to take any action on um on this to me

[0:16:50] Trustee Patrick: I'll look to Stefan Cermak, is there anything that we need to do with this or is this something

[0:16:57] Trustee Patrick: that each island would have to work through on its issues?

[0:17:06] Voice 7: Sorry about that, my mute button was being hidden from me.

[0:17:09] Voice 2: Yeah I think this is, I think there's no action for staff to take unless there's a request

[0:17:15] Voice 2: by RPC to trust council to review the policies.

[0:17:19] Voice 2: In the meantime, I think Mr. Peterson has, or Trustee Peterson, Vice Chair, Chair Peterson, has voiced his concern, and I'm not sure what else to do with it in the meantime.

[0:17:30] Voice 2: I think what he's actually expressing is precisely what was supposed to happen from my perspective, but I wasn't actually involved in the crafting of it as much.

[0:17:38] Voice 2: Well, I guess I was, but not heavily.

[0:17:41] Voice 2: So I'm at your whim.

[0:17:43] Voice 2: What would you like to do about it?

[0:17:44] Voice 2: So otherwise, staff don't have any follow-up action. It's just for your information.

[0:17:50] Voice 7: Trustee Boland.

[0:17:53] Voice 7: Excuse me,

[0:17:54] Trustee Patrick: I have had my hand up before.

[0:17:56] Trustee Patrick: I apologize. It fell off my list there. So go ahead, Trustee Allen.

[0:18:01] Trustee Allen: Sorry, I don't speak much, but when I do, I speak.

[0:18:04] Trustee Allen: I actually don't think this, I think we should explore this further because I find this, the whole template of the major-minor is very challenging.

[0:18:14] Trustee Allen: particularly on the Hornby Island as well.

[0:18:17] Trustee Allen: And just hearing what Stefan said regarding that

[0:18:23] Trustee Allen: maybe the way it's ended up is not necessarily

[0:18:26] Trustee Allen: the right way that's really actually helping

[0:18:29] Trustee Allen: certain islands and I think this is worthy of looking at

[0:18:33] Trustee Allen: maybe, I'm not sure about having trust looking at it

[0:18:37] Trustee Allen: or having staff look at it, but I don't want to-

[0:18:40] Trustee Patrick: Can I make a suggestion?

[0:18:41] Trustee Patrick: Because we have time here.

[0:18:43] Trustee Patrick: I think this item could be revisited

[0:18:46] Trustee Patrick: when we look at the item about the governance review in annex one i think it's quasi related

[0:18:51] Trustee Patrick: to some of the items in there um as we look at priorities and what goes forward part of that is

[0:18:57] Trustee Patrick: about how do we make decisions as to who gets work done um is that okay can we do that yeah that's

[0:19:05] Trustee Allen: fine i just don't want to be lost because i do find the minor is very challenging

[0:19:10] Trustee Patrick: so we'll revisit that unless trustee boland did you have a brilliant suggestion

[0:19:15] Trustee Patrick: jession i just think

[0:19:18] Voice 12: it's just yours was brilliant don't worry would this be simple

[0:19:22] Voice 12: um you may have two projects one of which must be a minor project uh

[0:19:31] Trustee Patrick: well let's let's revisit this

[0:19:32] Trustee Patrick: again when we look at the annex because i think that that does get to the heart of the question

[0:19:37] Trustee Patrick: how do we decide where work goes i think is the the key rather than you get one i get one

[0:19:43] Trustee Patrick: one what so it's it's making making hard decisions as we know with where do resources get directed to

[0:19:50] Trustee Patrick: so let's go back and visit this item when we get to uh not business cases when we get to the

[0:19:57] Trustee Patrick: governance review if we could somebody help me remember that when we get there okay let's keep

[0:20:05] Trustee Patrick: moving sorry i'm being pushy but we've got a lot on this agenda um all right we have some minutes

[0:20:10] Trustee Patrick: minutes here before us. We have the regular meeting from April 27th. I don't know how we

[0:20:17] Trustee Patrick: didn't get that approved before, but are there any additions or changes to that one? I guess

[0:20:21] Trustee Patrick: because we had a special meeting in there. Can we approve the meeting minutes from April 27th

[0:20:26] Trustee Patrick: through general consent? Not hearing any opposed. We have the minutes from our special meeting of

[0:20:33] Trustee Patrick: July 27th. Are there any additions or changes to those minutes? Can we approve those through

[0:20:40] Trustee Patrick: your general consent. Excellent, not hearing any. Just a reminder today, it's because it's kind of

[0:20:47] Trustee Patrick: hard always in Zoom meetings to follow things. When you have opposition, please make sure you

[0:20:52] Trustee Patrick: speak up so that I don't just rush past that and ignore that. On the screen now, we have our

[0:20:59] Trustee Patrick: follow-up action list, which is 6.3 on the agenda. Staff, would you like to go through these items

[0:21:06] Trustee Patrick: first, or do you have anything you want to address, or do you want to just take questions?

[0:21:10] Trustee Patrick: questions.

[0:21:11] Voice 2: Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that it speaks for itself. A lot of things are in

[0:21:17] Voice 2: progress, but a lot of things have been completed, and it's probably best that I just answer questions

[0:21:21] Voice 2: that you may have.

[0:21:23] Trustee Patrick: Super. Are there any questions in regards to the follow

[0:21:26] Voice 7: -up action list?

[0:21:31] Voice 7: Oh, I'm not. Oh, I see Trustee Boland. Oh, you're muted.

[0:21:42] Voice 12: Would this be unthinkable?

[0:21:43] Voice 12: it was all of these action lists sometimes nothing much happens for a very long time

[0:21:49] Voice 12: and it's not necessarily because you know it's not the actively work could can we have could

[0:21:57] Voice 12: we have a column that allowed the option to say on hold because some of the very old active

[0:22:06] Voice 12: projects reports etc you're left wondering you know what the hell and it's a pity to drop them

[0:22:13] Voice 12: off because they actually provide context and we don't reinvent the wheel too much but having

[0:22:22] Voice 12: something that said it's it's on hold it's on pause realistically nothing is happening with

[0:22:27] Voice 12: the project for the moment i think that would be really helpful but i'll just leave it at that for

[0:22:32] Voice 12: the moment yeah

[0:22:34] Trustee Patrick: it is challenging but uh this is this is our list we drive this list to staff we

[0:22:40] Trustee Patrick: we can always change our mind and remove something just because we asked for

[0:22:44] Trustee Patrick: it many months ago.

[0:22:45] Trustee Patrick: I think it is important as each member to review this list.

[0:22:48] Trustee Patrick: And sometimes we move on and find that our request that we had no longer is

[0:22:54] Trustee Patrick: relevant. So this is our list to manage staff.

[0:22:58] Trustee Patrick: Usually don't argue when we take things off lists,

[0:23:01] Trustee Patrick: they usually welcome it.

[0:23:03] Trustee Patrick: So please in the future, look at this very seriously and say,

[0:23:07] Trustee Patrick: why are we still doing this um if we need to um do we want it but i do hear you about

[0:23:14] Trustee Patrick: you know not losing items but uh i saw stephan cermak were you going to say something

[0:23:20] Voice 2: uh well thank you i do struggle myself with the options of being only in progress or complete

[0:23:26] Voice 2: um your your status of on hold if it would be relevant i will note that the follow-up action

[0:23:32] Voice 2: report it's meant to be resolutions that are actionable within three to six months but of

[0:23:38] Voice 2: course we start chronologically at the top you see February 2022 so it's not it doesn't always

[0:23:43] Voice 2: work out that way that's the purpose of this these are supposed to be small items that the RPC has

[0:23:49] Voice 2: asked us to do and we can report back in a timely manner of course quite often committees and LTCs

[0:23:56] Voice 2: and what have you make resolutions that are a bit bigger than just a little ask and it takes us time

[0:24:01] Voice 2: and then things get lost in the shuffle, et cetera.

[0:24:04] Voice 2: So I think it's not a bad idea to ask for an on-hold,

[0:24:07] Voice 2: although I'm not sure how that would,

[0:24:09] Voice 2: the status, this report is quite generic

[0:24:11] Voice 2: across the whole trust,

[0:24:12] Voice 2: but I will take it back to my team

[0:24:14] Voice 2: with the management team,

[0:24:15] Voice 2: the planning services management

[0:24:16] Voice 2: and see if there's any,

[0:24:18] Voice 2: what the standard is on that.

[0:24:20] Voice 2: I'm sort of at the moment waffling

[0:24:22] Voice 2: because it doesn't make sense to me

[0:24:24] Voice 2: to have on-hold a small immediate action.

[0:24:27] Voice 2: However, your point is I've struggled with it too.

[0:24:30] Voice 2: too. So maybe there's validating there. I'd like to report back with you on that. So I'll follow

[0:24:34] Voice 2: on.

[0:24:35] Trustee Patrick: All right. Thank you. If there are no other questions on the follow-up action list, we'll

[0:24:39] Trustee Patrick: move on and get to the meat of the matter. I am looking at the time. It's 1026. We only started

[0:24:46] Trustee Patrick: at 10. Is there any preferred time that people want to break or do you want to just keep working

[0:24:50] Trustee Patrick: and see when a natural time comes up? It's only been a half an hour. So I know we've got lots of

[0:24:55] Trustee Patrick: energy. So please do wave your hands if we're getting to needing a break. So 7-1-1 on the

[0:25:03] Trustee Patrick: agenda is a housing scan brief on page 22. I guess that's over to you, Staffan Cermak.

[0:25:14] Voice 2: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm not going to speak to this too much. The purpose here is to remind

[0:25:20] Voice 2: the RPC and I'll be attaching this briefing to our executive committee maybe trust council meeting if

[0:25:26] Voice 2: it gets there so that trustees are being kept informed of what's happening regarding housing

[0:25:31] Voice 2: you know the trust council declared a workforce housing short housing equity and workforce

[0:25:37] Voice 2: shortage crisis and so this is meant to show what's happening trust-wide and that represents

[0:25:43] Voice 2: that there's a timeline here most of the work is happening by this group but if you go back

[0:25:49] Voice 2: Back in time, it also talks about what's happening with executive committee, some trust council

[0:25:53] Voice 2: resolutions.

[0:25:54] Voice 2: It outlines some of the projects that have, you know, not necessarily directly involved

[0:25:59] Voice 2: with housing, but are certainly a component of it at the LTC level.

[0:26:02] Voice 2: Talks about bylaw enforcement.

[0:26:04] Voice 2: As I said, you're RPC, you know what's happening in your own group here.

[0:26:08] Voice 2: And then it talks about some external developments.

[0:26:11] Voice 2: Probably the most exciting from my perspective anyways, is what's happening at the CRD.

[0:26:15] Voice 2: They're very robustly addressing housing in multiple angles.

[0:26:19] Voice 2: some First Nations and then we took a crack at putting a SWOC analysis I think this is

[0:26:25] Voice 2: demonstrated by the governance committee and the way they want to do business

[0:26:29] Voice 2: this is our first crack at sort of doing something about what's happening about housing

[0:26:34] Voice 2: feel free to critique that as you wish so it's just really meant for information to give you

[0:26:40] Voice 2: keep you current what's happening housing because there's a lot happening and it's hard to always

[0:26:44] Voice 2: always keep it all together so and this can also help be a primer for the discussions later on

[0:26:49] Voice 2: today so i'm happy to answer any questions are

[0:26:52] Trustee Patrick: there any questions on this report

[0:26:55] Voice 5: trustee boland

[0:26:58] Voice 12: um i i would like to talk a bit about the housing assessment is this under this or do we know next

[0:27:06] Voice 12: next item fine okay thank you any

[0:27:11] Trustee Patrick: other questions i know i have a couple i've had my hand up again

[0:27:14] Trustee Patrick: I don't know why I'm just getting

[0:27:15] Trustee Allen: it's

[0:27:17] Trustee Patrick: just not showing up on my screen why not

[0:27:19] Trustee Patrick: I don't know

[0:27:23] Trustee Allen: does anybody else see me on the screen

[0:27:26] Trustee Allen: I

[0:27:27] Voice 7: do we can see you we

[0:27:29] Voice 7: can see you oh

[0:27:30] Voice 7: I don't

[0:27:31] Trustee Patrick: know why it's not popping to the top so but thank you trustee Allen for speaking up that

[0:27:35] Trustee Patrick: gets my attention the

[0:27:37] Trustee Allen: floor is yours okay I have two questions um one which has always been my

[0:27:41] Trustee Allen: my beef about advocacy letters where we write letters to various officials and other governments

[0:27:46] Trustee Allen: levels of government and and i never find out well did we get a follow-up letter from this

[0:27:51] Trustee Allen: individual what happened and i note that in september 2022 marie rankin there's a letter

[0:27:57] Trustee Allen: written but and if there was a response i think that should be included in here as well as further

[0:28:02] Trustee Allen: down in january 2022 what happened to that was there a follow-up so those are that question then

[0:28:10] Trustee Allen: And then the final one is mentioned First Nations page.

[0:28:17] Trustee Allen: Under First Nations, obviously.

[0:28:19] Trustee Allen: First Nations emphasise their interest in seeing members return.

[0:28:21] Trustee Allen: So I'll say this is not all islands.

[0:28:23] Trustee Allen: I would like to know which First Nations.

[0:28:25] Trustee Allen: It's kind of a generalized statement.

[0:28:27] Trustee Allen: So that's just my two questions.

[0:28:30] Trustee Allen: Thank you.

[0:28:36] Voice 2: Okay, so maybe I can

[0:28:37] Voice 2: take the first crack, sorry, at responding,

[0:28:39] Voice 2: unless Chair Luckin would like to respond.

[0:28:41] Voice 2: I believe he sends most of those correspondences to the various ministers.

[0:28:45] Voice 2: I can tell you, you're right, I made generic statements about First Nations and I apologize

[0:28:49] Voice 2: for being too generic, I should say some or be more specific, brevity sometimes has its

[0:28:57] Voice 2: faults.

[0:28:57] Voice 2: So I don't know, would ex officio Chair Luckman like to speak to those letters or shall I

[0:29:02] Voice 2: try to, just trying to find where it says.

[0:29:06] Trustee Luckham: Well, I was just going to say that all letters from the Chair are on the website under correspondence

[0:29:13] Trustee Luckham: and the chair and the answers are also always published there and so um maybe that's not clear

[0:29:22] Trustee Luckham: to everybody but there

[0:29:24] Voice 7: we go that's how it works i just think that maybe that perhaps should be

[0:29:31] Voice 7: included within this package that's all i'm not saying i don't know

[0:29:34] Trustee Allen: where they are all right okay

[0:29:38] Voice 1: so

[0:29:39] Voice 2: if i may madam chair for clarity uh trustee allen you would like to make sure that you know

[0:29:43] Voice 2: in the briefing that it indicates letters went out and if a letter came back that it's also

[0:29:47] Voice 2: captured here yeah okay all

[0:29:51] Voice 7: right trustee elliott

[0:29:56] Voice 4: thank you chair um just regarding communication

[0:30:00] Voice 4: and sort of the direction to EC that came out September 2022

[0:30:07] Voice 4: to develop communication strategy to support awareness

[0:30:11] Voice 4: of the housing affordability advocacy request.

[0:30:13] Voice 4: Are we working with the communications department

[0:30:18] Voice 4: that's developing an overall strategy?

[0:30:21] Voice 4: And I understand it's still at a draft stage.

[0:30:23] Voice 4: um so i kind of i i see this bullet as communication strategies recommended to be

[0:30:31] Voice 4: drafted within a housing strategy but so are we is rpc or staff working on communications for housing

[0:30:41] Voice 4: separate from this broader communications um strategy that needs to be uh thought through

[0:30:48] Voice 4: and is I think being worked on. How is that integrated?

[0:30:53] Voice 2: Great question if I may. So not that I'm aware of. The housing is not being integrated

[0:31:00] Voice 2: into the greater communication strategy specifically that I'm aware of. I do know

[0:31:06] Voice 2: that the communication strategy has been drafted and it will be shared with the Executive Committee

[0:31:10] Voice 2: soon or in the near future. I can't quite speak to that but I've had no direct communications

[0:31:16] Voice 2: communications about housing integrated into that. This was seen as a separate sort of

[0:31:22] Voice 2: exercise. But of course, I think if you're developing a trust-wide communication strategy,

[0:31:27] Voice 2: it behooves you to consider what the relevant issues are. And I imagine that strategy will

[0:31:31] Voice 2: incorporate issues, but maybe not speak to those individual issues, if you know what I mean. Like

[0:31:36] Voice 2: it'll have to address that there are issues, but maybe not what the, like how to unravel each

[0:31:40] Voice 2: each particular issue within it.

[0:31:42] Voice 2: So, but we've got no,

[0:31:44] Voice 2: we have no housing communication strategy right now.

[0:31:49] Voice 2: I am working on a report to executive committee

[0:31:52] Voice 2: regarding that issue and talking about some of the things

[0:31:55] Voice 2: that have been developed, such as the housing profiles,

[0:31:58] Voice 2: such as the island profiles, such as the toolkits,

[0:32:02] Voice 2: such as the strategy for housing, all these things,

[0:32:04] Voice 2: and hoping to be able to get out some communications

[0:32:08] Voice 2: first amongst trustees and staff.

[0:32:10] Voice 2: And that's been on your project for a while

[0:32:13] Voice 2: to do that post this meeting or post-November meeting

[0:32:17] Voice 2: to get, but before the end of this term.

[0:32:20] Voice 2: And you've already dedicated $5,000 towards that goal.

[0:32:24] Voice 2: So we're conscious that that's happening in a sequence.

[0:32:28] Voice 2: How that integrates with a greater

[0:32:29] Voice 2: trust-wide communication strategy, I don't know.

[0:32:32] Voice 2: And I wish I could speak to that better,

[0:32:33] Voice 2: But I think

[0:32:34] Voice 1: we'd have to see how that greater strategy goes.

[0:32:40] Trustee Patrick: Well, thank you.

[0:32:41] Trustee Patrick: These are really important points.

[0:32:43] Trustee Patrick: And I think as I look at this report, and to me, what this report should be doing is

[0:32:50] Trustee Patrick: also trying to identify some of the potential opportunities, because that's what this

[0:32:54] Trustee Patrick: committee should be doing, is sort of looking to where we could be better.

[0:32:58] Trustee Patrick: And one of those is about advocating on behalf of all of the islands.

[0:33:04] Trustee Patrick: And I'll give an example. UBCM is coming up shortly. Well, many rural municipalities have organized themselves to show up in a strong voice of speaking to the province, saying your housing plan has some challenges in rural communities.

[0:33:23] Trustee Patrick: and they're going to show up strong and united and i think rural islands is another group

[0:33:31] Trustee Patrick: that has challenges with with housing and that we need to be showing up strong

[0:33:37] Trustee Patrick: and and speaking on behalf of rural islands at the provincial level so i see that as you know

[0:33:45] Trustee Patrick: an opportunity as as we're um as we're going forward on you know defining the issues that

[0:33:52] Trustee Patrick: that we're all feeling and experiencing,

[0:33:56] Voice 7: but at various levels.

[0:33:58] Voice 7: Trustee Vorthwick?

[0:34:02] Voice 7: Yeah, absolutely.

[0:34:04] Voice 15: I think I'd like to see us,

[0:34:06] Voice 15: as you were saying, bringing that to the provincial level.

[0:34:11] Voice 15: And I've been trying to dig into the foreign buyer ban,

[0:34:19] Voice 15: which is not its proper name,

[0:34:22] Voice 15: the prohibition on the purchase of residential property

[0:34:24] Voice 15: by a non-Canadian site.

[0:34:26] Voice 15: Um, which, uh, I'm just trying to figure out sort of where it applies and whatever else

[0:34:32] Voice 15: to these islands.

[0:34:33] Voice 15: And, and currently a lot of rural areas are, uh, excluded from, from this, uh, this legislation.

[0:34:41] Voice 15: Um, and I, uh, I don't know.

[0:34:47] Voice 15: I think there's, there's, there's some problems with, with, um, assuming that they, and the

[0:34:52] Voice 15: the legislation is broadly to to you know prevent foreign investment um uh and it's it's being

[0:34:58] Voice 15: applied to to larger centers but and i and i you know i think that's um that's all well and good

[0:35:05] Voice 15: the the the part that i'm sort of trying to dig into and and and understand is or and i i feel

[0:35:13] Voice 15: that there's a need to advocate for our communities in that way too um there's a disproportionate

[0:35:19] Voice 15: effect uh when even one house is is you know sitting empty for for as an investment property

[0:35:28] Voice 15: um that you know could be housing someone who could be staying on the island and not all houses

[0:35:34] Voice 15: are appropriate for that i guess but like yeah i don't know housing for as an investment just

[0:35:38] Voice 15: rankles me but i uh and i i've been trying to do a bunch of this digging in in the last little bit

[0:35:43] Voice 15: i was going to try and bring it to trust council at the end of the month but i haven't quite

[0:35:48] Voice 15: I've had a lot of bits and pieces on my plate this month and I haven't had the chance to do that, but I don't know if this committee is the place to sort of dig into those kinds of discussions and seeing, because those to me seem like legislative tools that have been developed to sort of solve some of these problems.

[0:36:10] Voice 15: um and uh and again i mean we have a we have a a consistent problem where we do get forgotten about

[0:36:17] Voice 15: a little bit because we are only little it's only 26 000 of us um but uh i we are uh we are a

[0:36:25] Voice 15: playground for a lot of other people uh and we do have a duty to the province uh that's in our

[0:36:31] Voice 15: mandate too so i i don't know where that discussion comes through but um i'd love to sort of tease

[0:36:37] Voice 15: that are part of some point what

[0:36:39] Trustee Patrick: what I might suggest and I'm open to your thoughts on this

[0:36:43] Trustee Patrick: is we're going to talk about the housing strategy and there is a list of a whole bunch of items

[0:36:47] Trustee Patrick: there should we discuss what might be missing from whether it's a tool or an action that might

[0:36:53] Trustee Patrick: be missing from the housing strategy document because you are correct there's a whole bunch of

[0:36:59] Trustee Patrick: of other vehicles of actions

[0:37:02] Trustee Patrick: that we could be advocating for.

[0:37:06] Voice 15: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[0:37:07] Trustee Patrick: Okay, and Trustee Boland, you had your hand up,

[0:37:11] Trustee Patrick: but it's down.

[0:37:11] Trustee Patrick: Just we'll have a discussion in 7.1.3 on what's missing.

[0:37:18] Trustee Patrick: Okay, and I know I just wanted to look at this report.

[0:37:21] Trustee Patrick: Again, a couple of things here I had for comments

[0:37:24] Trustee Patrick: under bylaw compliance and enforcement on page 24.

[0:37:28] Trustee Patrick: for um i know there was an identification um of the southern gulf islands there was a numerous

[0:37:36] Trustee Patrick: motions made asking the crd to consider business licenses um as a region and i know uh i think

[0:37:43] Trustee Patrick: we're all eagerly waiting to see if the province has some announcements coming up this month on

[0:37:47] Trustee Patrick: making business licenses easier for regional districts to bring in place so um i think that

[0:37:54] Trustee Patrick: that should be mentioned because that's another area of a potential advocacy

[0:37:59] Trustee Patrick: for us. And like I said, there, there were,

[0:38:01] Trustee Patrick: there was a whole series of motions made last term of most of the Southern

[0:38:06] Trustee Patrick: Gulf islands requesting the

[0:38:10] Voice 7: CRD bring in business licenses for vacation

[0:38:15] Voice 7: rental. Sorry. I had a couple of comments.

[0:38:27] Voice 7: Sorry. I got to read my own comments. All right.

[0:38:34] Voice 7: The only, I guess I'll, oh, sorry.

[0:38:41] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[0:38:42] Trustee Patrick: Just on the SWOT analysis, I just had a couple of comments under opportunities.

[0:38:47] Trustee Patrick: Opportunities is external.

[0:38:49] Trustee Patrick: So forthcoming, the toolkit and the potential housing strategy really are strengths, not

[0:38:56] Trustee Patrick: opportunities.

[0:38:58] Trustee Patrick: Opportunities would be what's happening at the provincial level.

[0:39:01] Trustee Patrick: um so i just think just be aware that that's the difference between the swat analysis strengths

[0:39:07] Trustee Patrick: and weaknesses are internal opportunities and threats are external um and under threats

[0:39:14] Voice 7: um

[0:39:18] Voice 7: i was do

[0:39:21] Trustee Patrick: we to the committee do we call all out there are a couple of things there we've got

[0:39:26] Trustee Patrick: gentrification and we've got um maybe we have a politer term the nimbys but we have nimbys in all

[0:39:34] Trustee Patrick: all of our islands. Is that something we should

[0:39:39] Voice 7: call out? I'd be looking to know opinions.

[0:39:47] Voice 7: Trustee Allen, is your hand up? Oh, Trustee Borthwick?

[0:39:52] Voice 15: Yeah, I mean, I think it is important

[0:39:54] Voice 15: to find language that recognizes those, you know, there are valid concerns in lots of parties. But

[0:40:05] Voice 15: um yeah i mean i think those are those are forces that that act upon communities in in various ways

[0:40:12] Voice 15: and um i think to to not acknowledge the that uh social component that communal component is

[0:40:21] Voice 15: uh i mean it just ignores a a valuable component and our communities are constructed of of people

[0:40:32] Voice 15: who have those opinions and it's they have an effect absolutely so all

[0:40:39] Trustee Patrick: right i will we'll have

[0:40:40] Trustee Patrick: a whole conversation that i see uh um charlotte yeah

[0:40:44] Trustee Luckham: just looking for i'm sorry i'm missing the

[0:40:48] Trustee Luckham: context of the word you're suggesting the word nimby is used in this and that should that be

[0:40:53] Trustee Luckham: called out is that the question that you're asking should it

[0:40:56] Trustee Patrick: be recognized as a threat

[0:40:57] Trustee Patrick: Uh

[0:41:01] Voice 7: -huh. So that's under threat. So

[0:41:04] Voice 15: it's not in there, Peter, but Laura's asking if it should be.

[0:41:14] Voice 7: And so I'm sorry,

[0:41:18] Trustee Luckham: I'm missing the context. I don't think, I'm triggering here actually on

[0:41:24] Trustee Luckham: calling anybody a NIMBY. And I think you do need to find better language for that.

[0:41:33] Trustee Patrick: I was suggesting better language. Yes. But I also was calling out, I think the threat is, as well, is the demand of, you know, the interest of gentrification. There is a strong demand of still, and I don't see that coming down.

[0:41:55] Trustee Patrick: down. I think we probably all see that on our islands. Real estate sales are still quasi-robust

[0:42:01] Trustee Patrick: and they aren't locals that are buying. There are people moving here from elsewhere.

[0:42:09] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. And so if I might, Chair, I also see mixed up in all of this is privilege and those sorts of

[0:42:23] Trustee Luckham: context that exists around that.

[0:42:27] Trustee Patrick: I'll look to staff is there sorry Trustee Boland did you

[0:42:31] Voice 12: yes? I'm a bit challenged by the people are moving here from elsewhere because I moved here from

[0:42:38] Voice 12: elsewhere and I would suggest that many of us on this call moved here from elsewhere so the

[0:42:45] Voice 12: circumstances may be a little different in some way but that is not in and of itself a problem

[0:42:54] Voice 12: and the other one is in the threats limited water resources to support additional housing

[0:42:59] Voice 12: and that is i i definitely think that managing water resources to support additional housing

[0:43:07] Voice 12: and is a threat and in fact it's tied in with you know the people who challenge pretty much any

[0:43:13] Voice 12: development by using certain you know key phrases and this would be one of them that would be

[0:43:21] Voice 12: frequently used i definitely think that you know um managing uh making sure that additional or

[0:43:29] Voice 12: denser housing options are supported well and by innovative water solutions whatever way you want

[0:43:39] Voice 12: to put it is is something that needs to happen but i don't think that that we can make a blanket

[0:43:46] Voice 12: statement to say that limited water resources are are an issue throughout all the islands with

[0:43:53] Voice 12: respect to housing because there are places in which there is more water than you could possibly

[0:43:58] Voice 12: want so um yeah that's my point oh

[0:44:05] Trustee Patrick: thank you trustee well i think i think the overall challenge

[0:44:07] Trustee Patrick: and this is where we're mixing things up and I appreciate staff attempting the SWOT analysis here

[0:44:14] Trustee Patrick: is many of our islands still have a fair bit of potential development. Maine I know says they

[0:44:24] Trustee Patrick: don't but that that's that's good but a lot of islands still have potential development and

[0:44:33] Trustee Patrick: that is allowed through zoning and that could continue with or without limited water resources.

[0:44:40] Trustee Patrick: And we have to be careful that we're not just saying, if we're dealing with affordable housing, now that they're the that's the class that has to deal with limited water resources. So I think it's, it's being clear in our language that are we talking about housing, all housing, all forms of housing that's being built?

[0:45:04] Trustee Patrick: Are we talking only about one form of housing, which is the affordable housing?

[0:45:10] Trustee Patrick: If

[0:45:13] Voice 4: I may qualify that, your comment, Patrick, just a little bit. Not just affordable housing, but housing that the market is not driving. And so recognizing market forces are driving a certain type of homeownership, our housing strategy needs to address those gaps.

[0:45:33] Voice 4: what kind of housing is not being driven by the market and our strategy pushes for that

[0:45:40] Voice 4: those alternatives whether those are alternative builds or locations that are more suitable for

[0:45:46] Voice 4: increased intensity or it's affordable housing there's a there's a range of options that we are

[0:45:52] Voice 4: not addressing or that we need to address that the market does not drive sorry well

[0:45:57] Trustee Patrick: as well as

[0:45:58] Trustee Patrick: directing that market or affecting that market uh i think that's that is to me on the list of

[0:46:04] Trustee Patrick: things we're trying to do um trust uh trustee borthwick yeah

[0:46:09] Voice 15: and i just wanted to sort of echo

[0:46:10] Voice 15: what what um uh ex officio luckham said um and there's the privilege is a is a component of that

[0:46:21] Voice 15: And I think, Chair, you touched upon that too, and Trustee Elliott, who is able to be in those

[0:46:34] Voice 15: places. And I totally take your point, Trustee Boland, in terms of like, we all, I mean, all of

[0:46:39] Voice 15: us, all of us have come from elsewhere. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. And this is sort of

[0:46:45] Voice 15: of the heart of what I'm trying to drive at in the what seeds are we planting analogy is

[0:46:53] Voice 15: what kind of, how do we allow for the people who sustain our communities to remain in them

[0:47:01] Voice 15: and thrive in them? And there is a classist element. And right now it's, we live in a world

[0:47:08] Voice 15: that uh is becoming increasingly hostile for people of uh in in certain situations um with

[0:47:17] Voice 15: a variety of a variety of factors in that sort of equation but um it's very easy for if you've

[0:47:24] Voice 15: got the money and and there does definitely seem to be a a law for different different sets of

[0:47:31] Voice 15: laws for people who have and people who have not uh in terms of what they can build and and and

[0:47:36] Voice 15: how they can be on this land and how they can manage the resources like the trees and the water

[0:47:40] Voice 15: and and you know they have they have access to those things um and it's i i think um in terms

[0:47:48] Voice 15: of talking about gentrification uh was what chair patrick brought up and i i gentrification is is

[0:47:53] Voice 15: the correct term um i i totally agree with with uh ex-officio luckum that um and i don't think

[0:48:00] Voice 15: that chair patrick was chair patrick said from the very beginning that nimby was not the term

[0:48:04] Voice 15: but it would be good to find a definition that allows us to sort of capture that

[0:48:08] Voice 15: social element um and and yeah but gentrification i think it entirely belongs on that list

[0:48:16] Voice 15: i

[0:48:16] Trustee Patrick: got a solution i think it's under weakness because it's an internal um um weakness and that

[0:48:23] Trustee Patrick: is uh it's it's in its engagement it's it's um representative public engagement or something

[0:48:32] Trustee Patrick: something along those lines as being a potential weakness of ours, that, you know, we don't have a strong, robust public engagement process that does really go out there to get all voices represented and heard in what we're doing.

[0:48:50] Trustee Patrick: So I don't know how the committee feels is that instead of because to me, that's that's our weakness, our weaknesses.

[0:48:57] Trustee Patrick: is we're not out there hearing from all voices

[0:48:59] Voice 7: um and i think we should call

[0:49:05] Trustee Patrick: that out because

[0:49:05] Trustee Patrick: that's an area of investment and cost and money to be

[0:49:08] Trustee Patrick: spent aaron's hand is up oh sorry oh thank

[0:49:12] Trustee Patrick: you aaron go ahead i

[0:49:16] Voice 3: guess just i'm curious at what point when we start talking about gentrification

[0:49:23] Voice 3: and the direction that some of our islands have started to go and i know i only really can speak

[0:49:30] Voice 3: to pender i know what i have seen in the last nine years are happening here and there

[0:49:38] Voice 3: it would not be a popular uh opinion probably but we we're making we're trying to find ways to

[0:49:51] Voice 3: support more and more infrastructure on our islands whether it's through affordable housing

[0:49:58] Voice 3: and there is an element of bringing more workforce people to the islands that increases

[0:50:10] Voice 3: the desire for people with money to move to our islands and I wonder at what point

[0:50:18] Voice 3: do we tip the scale and start to do a disservice to our communities by chasing some of these

[0:50:27] Voice 3: these different ideas and where i i case in point being there was a lot of people that moved to

[0:50:33] Voice 3: pender during covid and we saw people uh buy up houses and snatch them up and it was typically

[0:50:41] Voice 3: all people coming out of the bigger city cores and coming in onto the island uh sort of for security

[0:50:48] Voice 3: in a sense feeling like being in a smaller community was better for them we've also seen

[0:50:54] Voice 3: a lot of houses go back up for sale two years later because people got to the island and re and

[0:51:00] Voice 3: didn't realize how limited and how small our islands were and what the uniqueness of those

[0:51:04] Voice 3: islands were and and so they they got here well what do you mean you don't have an actual hospital

[0:51:12] Voice 3: what do you mean you don't have an inter-island ferry what do you mean you don't have a grocery

[0:51:17] Voice 3: store that stays open after six o'clock at night and it and and people moved away and so i think

[0:51:25] Voice 3: that there's a that's the other side of it to consider when we start to look at um where we're

[0:51:33] Voice 3: pushing for support um we we maybe don't need to support the infrastructure of our islands any more

[0:51:44] Voice 3: than we already are and that it just comes up again and again i feel like for pender oh thank

[0:51:53] Trustee Patrick: thank you um trustee campbell you are you are correct each island and that's i think one of

[0:51:59] Trustee Patrick: the comments and why i like the statement of trustee borthwick that what are the seeds we're

[0:52:04] Trustee Patrick: planting today that cultivate the islands of tomorrow or what whistler says what are what are

[0:52:09] Trustee Patrick: you know we're we're evolving and the decisions and actions we take now define what the success

[0:52:14] Trustee Patrick: and the character of our islands are in the future.

[0:52:17] Trustee Patrick: This has a lot to do with setting that vision

[0:52:20] Trustee Patrick: of what is the island and being clear on that.

[0:52:23] Trustee Patrick: And there are islands where it is what it is.

[0:52:27] Trustee Patrick: It's not going to have a hospital.

[0:52:28] Trustee Patrick: It's not going to have the services to those levels.

[0:52:33] Trustee Patrick: And perhaps the threat is unrealistic expectations

[0:52:38] Trustee Patrick: or something of that nature.

[0:52:39] Trustee Patrick: um but anyway it's this is this is a challenge of this process i know it's kind of point in time

[0:52:48] Trustee Patrick: and staff you're getting an earful and i see trustee boland's uh um hand raised uh just

[0:52:55] Voice 12: thinking about what you said aaron and also something you said earlier laura so um on saturn

[0:53:02] Voice 12: i would say that a lot of the people who moved to the island have jumped right into island life

[0:53:08] Voice 12: life they get on Facebook and they ask can somebody come and do this or can they do the

[0:53:14] Voice 12: other and um I was really pleasantly surprised and impressed by the turnover in volunteers in

[0:53:24] Voice 12: a lot of different things and um you know the fact that there are a lot of brand new people

[0:53:30] Voice 12: who have stepped into roles I was I was really quite surprised to be honest and the other thing

[0:53:36] Voice 12: then um to speak to what laura said about engagement some of the difficulty with you

[0:53:42] Voice 12: know whatever we call it people who move in from outside people you know gentrification

[0:53:46] Voice 12: it is a thing about engagement so if you if you don't become part of the community if you become

[0:53:54] Voice 12: part of the community it doesn't matter how well off you are in fact the better off you are perhaps

[0:54:01] Voice 12: Perhaps you might spread some of your largesse around, but if you actually engage with the community and understand how the community works.

[0:54:10] Voice 12: I think the difficulty is when people, whether they're living in small houses or large houses, don't really connect with what's going on around them.

[0:54:20] Voice 12: And that's where we lose out. And I'll give you an example.

[0:54:25] Voice 12: when you were talking earlier about the empty property tax etc there are several americans

[0:54:30] Voice 12: on saturn island and they would be horribly penalized by you know foreign investors they've

[0:54:37] Voice 12: been some of them have come to the island for like 20 years they're completely invested in the

[0:54:44] Voice 12: community they do a lot of good work when they're here and they employ a lot of people you know

[0:54:51] Voice 12: they're generous and they're exactly the same as other people who come to the island but they will

[0:54:57] Voice 12: be like unjustifiably heavily penalized if a foreign investor kind of housing tax came in

[0:55:05] Voice 12: so a lot of these punitive taxes are very divisive i think and you need to be very very careful how

[0:55:11] Voice 12: you apply them thanks

[0:55:13] Voice 8: all

[0:55:16] Trustee Patrick: right well this is uh i think this is the challenge uh you know what are

[0:55:21] Trustee Patrick: are we talking about? What kind of housing are we talking about? And for whom are we talking about

[0:55:25] Trustee Patrick: it? And I think that's, that's, um, and I, and I know, uh, Trustee Campbell, I think you weren't

[0:55:30] Trustee Patrick: there at the beginning. I sort of started with, do we understand the problems? Do we clearly

[0:55:35] Trustee Patrick: understand the problem? And, um, you know, are we using, you know, creativity and innovation to

[0:55:42] Trustee Patrick: solve those problems? And, and, and that's a, that's a big deal. And I, and I'm, and I'm,

[0:55:48] Trustee Patrick: i don't feel we're clear on our problems yet to me we're kind of mixing mixing and matching and

[0:55:55] Trustee Patrick: we just did that by our conversation today um you know are we are we talking about housing

[0:56:00] Trustee Patrick: and diversity of options of housing that match the the the the community needs of each of the

[0:56:07] Trustee Patrick: individual islands will have different needs of what makes up a healthy community um this is um

[0:56:15] Trustee Patrick: um, as, as we go forward here. So I, I think at this point,

[0:56:20] Trustee Patrick: this was just a sort of a point in time report. I think, uh, uh,

[0:56:27] Trustee Patrick: Stefan Zermack,

[0:56:28] Voice 7: I think you've got a, um, an earful, uh,

[0:56:35] Voice 7: at this time, I

[0:56:37] Trustee Patrick: don't think this report's going anywhere.

[0:56:39] Trustee Patrick: Or do you need specific direction? I'll turn it over to you. Uh,

[0:56:44] Trustee Patrick: Stefan Zermack. Sorry. I always have a hard time with the director.

[0:56:50] Trustee Patrick: you're still rpm in my mind so uh can

[0:56:55] Voice 2: you for whatever reason my my uh button for video and

[0:57:01] Voice 2: mute is playing peekaboo with me okay there it is um i don't need any direction as you said it's a

[0:57:07] Voice 2: point in time snapshot it was meant to uh capture as much as we could with the um what's going on

[0:57:13] Voice 2: with housing. The SWOT analysis was an interesting exercise to try to help this group do exactly what

[0:57:21] Voice 2: you just did, and that is to sort of discuss and debate what are you doing, is it what you want to

[0:57:29] Voice 2: be doing, and what could you be doing, and all that stuff. So I think that's exactly what we

[0:57:34] Voice 2: were hoping for in terms of priming the next steps. I still have an intention to attach this

[0:57:39] Voice 2: briefing or a briefing an edited version of it to the executive committee for them to consider

[0:57:45] Voice 2: because this group is really well tuned in i don't think all the trustees are necessarily tuned in

[0:57:49] Voice 2: as much or they would benefit from this type of from this type of information in my opinion so

[0:57:54] Voice 2: so that's my intention to have that done by the end of the week and i'll make a few edits as i

[0:57:59] Voice 2: sort of heard discussed talking about including advocacy letters uh for the follow-up uh

[0:58:06] Voice 2: integrating communication strategy,

[0:58:11] Voice 2: adding the regional districts for business licenses for STVRs ask.

[0:58:15] Voice 2: I don't know where that is, but I'll find it.

[0:58:19] Voice 2: Opportunities or external.

[0:58:20] Voice 2: Oh yeah.

[0:58:20] Voice 2: Some of the switching where the opportunities being external and what have

[0:58:23] Voice 2: you.

[0:58:23] Voice 2: And then I have this ad weakness or pardon me.

[0:58:28] Voice 2: Where is it?

[0:58:30] Voice 2: Ad market forces are driving development.

[0:58:33] Voice 2: So I can clean up that language in there,

[0:58:35] Voice 2: but I think that was a threat about market forces driving development and not creating that they're

[0:58:40] Voice 2: creating the development patterns as opposed to perhaps the policy development and the land use

[0:58:45] Voice 2: bylaws and all that I think is what I heard so that's what I got from the discussion my key

[0:58:49] Voice 2: points and then I

[0:58:51] Trustee Patrick: think I just thought the wording that might help address Trustee Campbell's comments

[0:58:56] Trustee Patrick: and Trustee Campbell I'm looking to you to comment on would be under threats would be

[0:59:01] Trustee Patrick: um i i think it's either uh loss or or changes to island you know characters or or culture or

[0:59:13] Trustee Patrick: something of that nature um because that's what happens when we lose you know like parts of our

[0:59:23] Trustee Patrick: population either leave or new parts of our population come in and have different expectations

[0:59:28] Trustee Patrick: that don't match the the culture of the islands yeah

[0:59:35] Voice 7: i i guess my

[0:59:37] Voice 3: my thought was was just in

[0:59:42] Voice 3: in how we develop some of these things out um i think it was trustee elliott and and trustee

[0:59:48] Voice 3: both saying the the type of housing that we target i think is very crucial um that that we

[0:59:59] Voice 3: me.

[1:00:00] Voice 3: That we don't increase development of what we have here already, that it becomes more specifically defined, I guess.

[1:00:12] Voice 3: I don't know. I'm not sure exactly how it would go into a report.

[1:00:18] Trustee Patrick: No, thank you. I think we're all hearing you.

[1:00:21] Trustee Patrick: I know one of the ways I've been trying to describe, to stop the challenges, the islands have experienced growth and they have experienced growth for years.

[1:00:30] Trustee Patrick: And I think the challenge that we're trying to do is we're not trying to increase the growth. That's not what this is about. This is about making sure that we're increasing the options of housing and diversifying the growth that is coming instead of just attracting one type of growth.

[1:00:45] Trustee Patrick: That we're making sure that we are still continuing to have that diversity that the islands have always needed to thrive as a healthy community, that we need the diversity of people living here, and that we don't want to just be attracting and accommodating one demographic or trying to attract more demographic.

[1:01:14] Trustee Patrick: demographic. This isn't about attracting growth. This is about making sure that the growth is

[1:01:19] Trustee Patrick: healthy. I don't know if that makes sense, but there we go. And I just think a lot of people

[1:01:29] Trustee Patrick: misunderstand, you know, when I know I'm speaking, they think we're saying, oh, I'm trying to bring

[1:01:33] Trustee Patrick: in lots of people. It's like, no, let's make sure we can have healthy people. Okay, so we're going

[1:01:41] Trustee Patrick: going to move on to the next item here excuse

[1:01:43] Trustee Allen: me chair oh sorry it's not it's not me this time

[1:01:47] Trustee Allen: but there's somebody on a telephone call oh

[1:01:49] Trustee Patrick: that would be trustee campbell i believe trustee

[1:01:53] Trustee Patrick: laroni actually oh sorry that's your phone number hello

[1:01:56] Voice 11: hi okay um i understand we want to move on

[1:02:00] Voice 11: so i'll try to make this quick um basically i did a little informal questionnaire to the island

[1:02:06] Voice 11: um a couple months ago and i actually and i got 16 pages of responses and i got it down to two

[1:02:12] Voice 11: pages and i'm gonna send it to you all to take a quick look at but there's um just two quick

[1:02:20] Voice 11: perspectives one is that in a lot of cases the you know the cow's already the out of the gate

[1:02:26] Voice 11: like it's already there already has been developments like for example our ferry is

[1:02:29] Voice 11: is overcapacity with the population.

[1:02:32] Voice 11: And that's just where we're at.

[1:02:35] Voice 11: And also, I thought the best response I got was,

[1:02:40] Voice 11: you know, we have, we don't want,

[1:02:42] Voice 11: like at least this is specific to Luskeetee,

[1:02:44] Voice 11: but we want there to be a, you know,

[1:02:47] Voice 11: a bit of demographic because a lot of the population's aging

[1:02:50] Voice 11: and it would be great, you know,

[1:02:52] Voice 11: we need people to chop the wood

[1:02:53] Voice 11: and volunteer for events, et cetera, et cetera.

[1:02:56] Voice 11: We also want to keep the island really pristine

[1:02:58] Voice 11: and beautiful and you know kind of the reason people move there and then we also don't want

[1:03:02] Voice 11: too many rules and regulations and we get to choose two of those options three options

[1:03:10] Voice 11: so yeah it seems like change is inevitable and we just need to as you said plant that seed for

[1:03:16] Voice 11: the future of where we want it to go and I will leave it at that because I know we are pressed

[1:03:22] Voice 11: for time no

[1:03:24] Trustee Patrick: thank you and i mean what i'm hearing is general agreement across the board from all

[1:03:30] Trustee Patrick: members and um and i hope staff are are hearing us because i think that's where we all want to

[1:03:35] Trustee Patrick: be sort of moving forward uh you know that we are working on the same concepts and it's we all say

[1:03:41] Trustee Patrick: it in different ways um but as i'm listening i'm hearing us all say the same thing so staff think

[1:03:50] Trustee Patrick: they're hearing different things then we should talk this further i hope you're hearing very

[1:03:55] Trustee Patrick: very similar friends from the members.

[1:04:01] Trustee Patrick: Okay, so we're going to go on to the next item,

[1:04:03] Trustee Patrick: which is the housing needs gap assessment 6712 on page 28.

[1:04:08] Trustee Patrick: And again, it's this.

[1:04:09] Voice 15: Trustee Allen, do you have your, your hand is up still?

[1:04:13] Voice 15: Yeah, I

[1:04:13] Trustee Allen: think I'll just yell.

[1:04:15] Voice 15: Yes, please, please do.

[1:04:17] Voice 7: I'm

[1:04:17] Trustee Allen: starting to take this very personally.

[1:04:20] Voice 7: I'm a

[1:04:21] Trustee Allen: very sensitive guy.

[1:04:23] Trustee Allen: I was the youngest, you know what I mean?

[1:04:25] Trustee Allen: I take things personally.

[1:04:26] Trustee Allen: okay

[1:04:26] Voice 7: trustee alan i

[1:04:29] Trustee Allen: just want laura's ears you're talking interrupting me laura

[1:04:34] Trustee Allen: okay i just want to follow up with philip roni that i do have an amazing report that tony law

[1:04:40] Trustee Allen: wrote up this summer that i was going to share with you later it's a 43 page report

[1:04:46] Trustee Allen: basically in housing and land use planning on hornby island it's amazing he's given the whole

[1:04:51] Trustee Allen: uh you know histories in the 60s to the to the present and he's also got some amazing

[1:04:57] Trustee Allen: recommendations that i am going to be exploring with our local trust committee in terms of what

[1:05:03] Trustee Allen: housing we can do so it's very hopeful and uh i will forward it to you guys a little bit later

[1:05:08] Trustee Allen: thank you all

[1:05:11] Trustee Patrick: right trustee allen are you done and yes just yell that's okay i'm

[1:05:16] Trustee Allen: gonna yell and

[1:05:17] Trustee Allen: And I'm done. Thank you.

[1:05:19] Trustee Patrick: Okay. On to the next report.

[1:05:22] Voice 7: And over to you, Director Cermak.

[1:05:28] Voice 7: Thank you, Madam Chair.

[1:05:29] Voice 7: I actually figured out my mute issue.

[1:05:32] Voice 2: Okay. So what we have here is housing needs gaps analysis.

[1:05:38] Voice 2: So in April, the Regional Planning Committee allocated $10,000 out of its $30,000 placeholder funds to getting or securing a housing needs gaps analysis.

[1:05:51] Voice 2: process. That was staff who had been discussing the housing needs reports that are required

[1:05:59] Voice 2: legislative every five years. And in speaking to other sort of more very proactive planners

[1:06:10] Voice 2: out there and other staff members out there, specifically thinking of Planner Chadwick

[1:06:16] Voice 2: and planner stark over at the crd although she's a manager now sorry i shouldn't call her plan she

[1:06:22] Voice 2: is a planner but they were really quite guiding me through where they are when i came back to

[1:06:28] Voice 2: the islands trust in terms of housing needs and really opened my eye to what may be missing from

[1:06:36] Voice 2: housing needs i communicated that to this group the group agreed to be to allocate those funds to

[1:06:41] Voice 2: to try to fill the gaps or at least assess what is missing from their

[1:06:45] Voice 2: legislatively required housing needs reports.

[1:06:48] Voice 2: And is there an opportunity because they have to be replaced this year for

[1:06:52] Voice 2: all of the LTCs, except for salt spraying and Bowen's not included in that.

[1:06:57] Voice 2: I apologize if there's a confusion there. And,

[1:07:00] Voice 2: and so we did that. We got,

[1:07:03] Voice 2: we hired Urban Matters who've had other work out there in this area.

[1:07:07] Voice 2: They've worked in the trust area. Most recently, I believe it was,

[1:07:10] Voice 2: um not the housing feasibility housing but they worked with the southern gulf islands on some

[1:07:16] Voice 2: similar reports and so i obtained them and they produced this report and what they did is they

[1:07:23] Voice 2: sort of said okay what's what required information must you have what information must be in that

[1:07:29] Voice 2: report and then thirdly what supplemental data may be of use in the housing needs assessments

[1:07:35] Voice 2: And they put together the report basically saying that each island is different and some of the data, the most data that would be of use is regarding the quality of housing and the rental market itself.

[1:07:50] Voice 2: It's hard to find that through any stats, right?

[1:07:52] Voice 2: As we know, most markets are, you get rentals by word of mouth, not so much by, you know, a dedicated classified area.

[1:08:01] Voice 2: and so they recommended that if you're going to get that supplemental data it's going to be

[1:08:05] Voice 2: through various ways of conducting surveys or group engagement or interviews whether

[1:08:10] Voice 2: it's with business owners or with community groups or with just general public at large

[1:08:16] Voice 2: so they they went through all the reports that we had available and then they assessed what's

[1:08:20] Voice 2: required in legislation and then they assess what uh what the methodologies may be to get

[1:08:25] Voice 2: this supplemental data they put it to get this report the tables at the end really show the

[1:08:31] Voice 2: color coding sort of what we have what we don't have what we need what we could get

[1:08:35] Voice 2: and the long story short is that they and i also asked them to put a cost together because

[1:08:40] Voice 2: this was supposed to be for today that you could use this information to decide whether or not you

[1:08:45] Voice 2: want to get supplemental data when doing the housing needs reports for the northern and

[1:08:49] Voice 2: southern off islands i suppose that the end of the the conversation for us was that when they

[1:08:55] Voice 2: They submitted the information, their budget estimate for doing the housing needs assessments

[1:08:59] Voice 2: was about $120,000 just baseline, but that was including salt springs, so I removed that.

[1:09:06] Voice 2: And then they said it'd be about double that to get the supplementary data in a way.

[1:09:12] Voice 2: And honestly, I couldn't put that forward to this group.

[1:09:16] Voice 2: That's a lot of money for a housing needs report.

[1:09:18] Voice 2: You all know there's great needs.

[1:09:20] Voice 2: So how much data do you need for that?

[1:09:22] Voice 2: I wasn't sure.

[1:09:23] Voice 2: Sure. I do have it as an option. If you'd like to consider it in the business case section later on,

[1:09:27] Voice 2: you're more than welcome to take that option. That's your prerogative. I've recommended that

[1:09:32] Voice 2: you keep the baseline information required per legislation. You have to do that, or the trust

[1:09:37] Voice 2: has to do that. And that if each, and this is going to be more of a business case topic, but

[1:09:42] Voice 2: each LTC that's working on an OCP amendment may wish to have supplementary data in order to form

[1:09:48] Voice 2: more progressive and focused policies, then they get that supplementary data at that time,

[1:09:56] Voice 2: as opposed to this group recommending that step. So anyway, so the report's there. I'm happy to

[1:10:01] Voice 2: answer questions about it. I'm not sure I did a great summary of it, but there it is.

[1:10:06] Trustee Patrick: All right. Great. Can we keep our questions to this report? I know

[1:10:13] Trustee Patrick: it'll help inform your

[1:10:14] Trustee Patrick: question about when we do the business case afterwards because it'll be difficult to keep

[1:10:21] Trustee Patrick: that challenge. But go ahead, Trustee Allen. Why,

[1:10:25] Trustee Patrick: thank you, Chair.

[1:10:29] Trustee Allen: No, I know that when I read this, it's quite the report. What I'm kind of confused about was,

[1:10:35] Trustee Allen: first of all, in the introduction, the staff recommended RPC, recommend reports to be

[1:10:40] Trustee Allen: conducted to minimum standard and yet because this is a provincial requirement and uh you know

[1:10:47] Trustee Allen: telling us like in terms of data gaps like summary forms we don't have summary forms trend analysis

[1:10:52] Trustee Allen: on and on in terms of what's missing but yet when you go on and actually look at you know

[1:10:58] Trustee Allen: where the housing needs reports on the bc website they do have a summary form template they do have

[1:11:04] Trustee Allen: access to data to complete housing needs reports this stuff is available in fact locally we're

[1:11:09] Trustee Allen: we're doing that ourselves in terms of rentals and whatnot.

[1:11:13] Trustee Allen: But so what I want to know is why weren't these already included in our

[1:11:18] Trustee Allen: reports?

[1:11:19] Trustee Allen: If there's already templates available to help us and why, you know,

[1:11:25] Trustee Allen: this is why it's considered a gap. Do you understand what I'm asking?

[1:11:29] Voice 2: I think I do.

[1:11:30] Voice 2: And that's because all the,

[1:11:31] Voice 2: most of these housing needs reports were done before the legislation became

[1:11:34] Voice 2: enforced along with the accompanying regulations. And so,

[1:11:40] Voice 2: So, yeah, so they were done before all that came into force.

[1:11:42] Voice 2: So once it came into force, there's gaps just for meeting the legislation.

[1:11:47] Voice 2: So I think that sort of answers your question why certain forms weren't filled out in certain ways.

[1:11:53] Voice 2: So now we have a requirement to get certain information.

[1:11:57] Voice 2: It's acknowledged that not all areas are able to get all the information.

[1:12:00] Voice 2: And that's why there's a, I hate to use the word gap, there's a gap between the information that you have to get

[1:12:06] Voice 2: get information that has to be reported out, recognizing that some of the smaller communities

[1:12:11] Voice 2: may not be able to parse out that information.

[1:12:15] Voice 2: In regards to all the forms and the templates, that has been created once the legislation

[1:12:20] Voice 2: became live, but these reports that were done in 2018 were done before that.

[1:12:26] Voice 7: Thank you.

[1:12:27] Voice 7: Mm-hmm.

[1:12:28] Voice 7: All right.

[1:12:29] Voice 7: Trustee Boland.

[1:12:31] Voice 12: Thank you.

[1:12:32] Voice 12: I have a few questions, specific questions.

[1:12:35] Voice 12: uh the first one is the reports that were done in 2018 it was sort of optional that they could

[1:12:43] Voice 12: they could be included and were they included were they the starting point for our cycle let's say

[1:12:50] Voice 12: they were

[1:12:52] Voice 12: okay and my next question is there seems to be a very patchy sort of relationship

[1:12:58] Voice 12: with the different regional districts whether you're included or you're not and you know by

[1:13:04] Voice 12: By and large, I would argue that the regional districts get lots of so-called transfer funding to do these kinds of things.

[1:13:13] Voice 12: And we don't. So would it not make more sense to just jump in with the appropriate regional district,

[1:13:22] Voice 12: especially considering there's a very standard format for the data?

[1:13:27] Voice 12: So it's not as though each regional district will do something entirely different for each island.

[1:13:32] Voice 12: they have to adhere to the required format and the summary and and the third thing i would say

[1:13:39] Voice 12: is that the stats data comes from census canada so a lot of the data is you know has arguably

[1:13:46] Voice 12: already been requested by claire and the material that hasn't where they have to engage and find

[1:13:52] Voice 12: things out and that could actually be done either on a local trust committee level and or by the

[1:14:00] Voice 12: the regional district who will have to set up a process whereby they poll engage etc etc so i i

[1:14:08] Voice 12: just my reservation is why are we doing this ourselves do we could we find a way to align

[1:14:15] Voice 12: with the regional districts to achieve it given that they are given funding and um on top of that

[1:14:22] Voice 12: I would say if if we were to proceed to try and do this, either the minimum or the supplemental,

[1:14:33] Voice 12: I would recommend that we would go to the province and ask for specific funding to undertake this activity,

[1:14:40] Voice 12: because we can't just rock up the budget and say we need, you know, 50, 100,000 to do a decent job,

[1:14:49] Voice 12: because that is 1% of our total budget

[1:14:52] Voice 12: and it's probably 10% of the project budget.

[1:14:56] Voice 12: And I just think that would be unconscionable.

[1:15:00] Voice 12: And I had another point which I think I have forgotten,

[1:15:05] Voice 12: but let me think.

[1:15:10] Voice 12: Should we have done this last year?

[1:15:13] Voice 12: I can't understand the timing of all of this.

[1:15:16] Voice 12: It seems as though we are late getting this on the table.

[1:15:21] Voice 12: And did we miss something?

[1:15:23] Voice 12: And there was funding, I think, available.

[1:15:25] Voice 12: Did we miss an opportunity to seek funding to undertake this?

[1:15:31] Voice 12: Thanks.

[1:15:33] Voice 2: Lots of questions.

[1:15:34] Voice 2: May I, Madam Chair?

[1:15:35] Voice 12: Please do.

[1:15:36] Voice 2: Okay, so starting with the RDs, I did approach two of the RDs,

[1:15:40] Voice 2: Regional District of Nanaimo and CRD, and they both said no.

[1:15:45] Voice 2: no. We're doing our own housing needs assessments. You do your own. Legislatively, we're required to

[1:15:51] Voice 2: do our own. We should. So they just sort of said, thanks, but no, thanks. We're not interested in

[1:15:55] Voice 2: partnering. And those were just brief conversations with the staff. Don't get me wrong. Maybe

[1:16:00] Voice 2: politically we could have pushed, et cetera, et cetera. But certainly that's why we did it last

[1:16:05] Voice 2: time. When I was the regional planning manager in Salt Spring and the Southern Gulf Islands,

[1:16:09] Voice 2: we partnered with the CRD. They led and we've, no, pardon me. They offered the Southern Gulf

[1:16:14] Voice 2: islands but salt spring was the only one to jump on that and we sort of jumped on their tails and

[1:16:19] Voice 2: so i just worked with a committee of people to to get the work done so they said no we're not doing

[1:16:25] Voice 2: it this year with you um yeah so asking for provincial funding there was provincial funding

[1:16:31] Voice 2: in the first when they introduced the new legislation and we took advantage of that

[1:16:35] Voice 2: that's why the crd was able to to help sort of collaborate in a larger group typical to the

[1:16:41] Voice 2: province when they amend legislation they to lessen the pain they offer funding when it's new

[1:16:46] Voice 2: but then they take it away and you're just required to do it i can give countless examples

[1:16:50] Voice 2: my favorite is raw the repair and areas regulation we've spent a lot of money trying to get that

[1:16:59] Voice 2: regulation into force and greenhouse gas emissions and so on and so forth there's just a never-ending

[1:17:06] Voice 2: parade of things that get downloaded to local governments that's just rather the reality i

[1:17:10] Voice 2: I don't mean to be so cynical.

[1:17:12] Voice 2: So asking them for funding, I'm not sure what that would look like or where that would come from.

[1:17:16] Voice 2: As you know, we have legislative monitoring and we have staff who are looking at grant availability.

[1:17:23] Voice 2: It's a very large pool of opportunity out there.

[1:17:28] Voice 2: I have not seen anything for the housing needs reports.

[1:17:31] Voice 2: I try to keep, you know, they fly by and I try to look at them as they go by and I've not seen anything that's relevant.

[1:17:38] Voice 2: Are we late?

[1:17:39] Voice 2: Very well could be.

[1:17:40] Voice 2: I tried to justify that we're not so the province doesn't slap us on the wrist and start penalizing us in one way or another.

[1:17:47] Voice 2: All I can say is when I jumped into this position last year, we were right almost where we are now and flying through the budget.

[1:17:55] Voice 2: Didn't really have a sense of the landscape yet.

[1:17:58] Voice 2: As I did, I realized we needed housing needs reports.

[1:18:01] Voice 2: And so here we are.

[1:18:02] Voice 2: I sort of, you know, have been steering the ship towards this opportunity as we speak.

[1:18:07] Voice 2: So, yeah, we're working on that.

[1:18:09] Voice 2: I think we're okay if you, depending on how you count five, which I perhaps shouldn't be so curt about, but I think we're, I think we're fine as long as we get it done next year.

[1:18:20] Voice 2: And yeah, I think, oh, and one of the things about doing it internally, gathering data, I do present that as a somewhat option in the business case about using internal staff, focusing on using a potential co-op student.

[1:18:36] Voice 2: because I know we're going to ask for a co-op student again as we usually do, that's fraught

[1:18:42] Voice 2: with issues due to the lack of experience and I know we're still down a senior policy advisor,

[1:18:50] Voice 2: a permanent senior policy advisor who would be able to help do this information had that position

[1:18:54] Voice 2: be filled. So we don't really have anybody internally to gather that data and put it

[1:18:58] Voice 2: together and we did use the co-op student this summer to help create the housing profiles as

[1:19:03] Voice 2: you see them. So that's kind of as far as we were able to get, but I don't think that's a

[1:19:08] Voice 2: sustainable model to deliver something that's legislatively required. So that's my response.

[1:19:15] Trustee Patrick: We are mixing the two. We're talking about the business

[1:19:18] Voice 2: case and how we're

[1:19:19] Trustee Patrick: going to pay for it

[1:19:20] Trustee Patrick: and if we're going to do it. I think this one we should really limit to there's some supplemental

[1:19:24] Trustee Patrick: data that has been suggested. Are there gaps? Are there missing data? You are the people who live

[1:19:30] Trustee Patrick: on islands and uh and have to read these uh housing needs reports um i know one piece that

[1:19:40] Trustee Patrick: i look at uh they you know they talk about the supplemental data of um of rental housing but

[1:19:45] Trustee Patrick: there's um there's also an element of illegal rental housing um is that data that would be

[1:19:52] Trustee Patrick: helpful or not to have estimates of how much of the housing is illegal substandard uninhabitable

[1:20:01] Trustee Patrick: dangerous lots of words that come to mind for me but uh trustee boland um

[1:20:08] Voice 12: well i i agree with you

[1:20:11] Voice 12: there is supplemental data that you know could be collected but given that those don't appear

[1:20:18] Voice 12: in the census data i can't see that a poll will achieve much more because that data is by its

[1:20:28] Voice 12: nature sort of semi-underground so and the only you know the only way you're going to find out

[1:20:35] Voice 12: that kind of thing is for the local trust committees to um to engage and try and dig

[1:20:42] Voice 12: dig in and come up with some estimates because those those subtleties are not in the census data

[1:20:48] Voice 12: because people keep it concealed and it's changing all the time of course as well so i don't see a

[1:20:55] Voice 12: a lot of value i'd have to go through it line by line but a very broad generalization some of the

[1:21:00] Voice 12: supplemental data would be difficult to collect and um i just find the idea of spending a hundred

[1:21:09] Voice 12: thousand fifty or a hundred whatever you want to call it on a housing needs assessment when we

[1:21:17] Voice 12: We need to spend that money on dealing with the issue that we know exists, like spending a lot of money to quantify something which we intuitively and factually know exists is really difficult for me.

[1:21:36] Voice 12: I was going to say, I'm going to, I'm just saying, I hear you, but that's going

[1:21:39] Trustee Patrick: to be in the business.

[1:21:40] Trustee Patrick: I can't, I'm back into the money.

[1:21:42] Trustee Patrick: Okay, fair enough. I'll stop.

[1:21:44] Trustee Patrick: this is the theoretical content of the reports we may or may not agree to fund later um so

[1:21:52] Trustee Patrick: are there any other comments on the report trustee allen your hand is not raised

[1:22:05] Trustee Patrick: okay well with that we will probably reflect back on this report when we get to the business case

[1:22:10] Trustee Patrick: item coming up shortly so i'm going to keep us moving how are we doing on time it's 11 30 are

[1:22:17] Trustee Patrick: Are we going to crack through till noon?

[1:22:19] Trustee Patrick: Is that general?

[1:22:21] Trustee Patrick: Should we keep going?

[1:22:22] Trustee Patrick: I'm seeing thumbs up.

[1:22:24] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[1:22:24] Trustee Patrick: So we're going to keep on heading, try to get to noon.

[1:22:27] Trustee Patrick: So we have 713, which is the housing strategy.

[1:22:30] Trustee Patrick: This is a request for decision.

[1:22:32] Trustee Patrick: It begins on page 41.

[1:22:34] Trustee Patrick: Is that over to you again, Director Cermak?

[1:22:38] Voice 2: Can you tell everybody was on vacation?

[1:22:40] Voice 2: My name's on all the reports.

[1:22:43] Voice 2: Okay.

[1:22:43] Voice 2: Okay, so as a way of a background, the Regional Planning Committee supported draft work that was presented by Planner Chadwick and Planner Yeomans back in April for the Housing Strategy and Housing Options Toolkit.

[1:23:01] Voice 2: So staff advanced the work. It came back in July at the special meeting to talk about the Housing Toolkit, but you did not talk about the strategy.

[1:23:09] Voice 2: And it was our hope that we would get both together for this meeting.

[1:23:13] Voice 2: We're not able to meet that deadline, which is okay.

[1:23:16] Voice 2: We're still on track to meet the November deadline.

[1:23:18] Voice 2: So instead, this is meant to focus you just on the strategy, not the toolkit.

[1:23:23] Voice 2: But of course, the two speak to each other quite a bit.

[1:23:27] Voice 2: So what you have before you is attached to this report is an amended draft housing strategy.

[1:23:35] Voice 2: And I just want to make sure.

[1:23:37] Voice 2: Yeah, so what do we do?

[1:23:40] Voice 2: we pretty much what we've done is just attached a bit of a table to say what's completed what's

[1:23:44] Voice 2: ongoing and what future actions are there's some explanatory notes uh our hope is that you have

[1:23:50] Voice 2: we're able to review the table which i'll scroll to in a second and that um you're able to comment

[1:23:56] Voice 2: on it and we can bring you back something the toolkit and the draft together with the feedback

[1:24:02] Voice 2: we've got we've been receiving from some of the housing groups for your consideration which would

[1:24:06] Voice 2: be your first draft in November and then we can take that draft the complete kit so to speak

[1:24:14] Voice 2: which of course will have gaps and holes and it won't be perfect especially phase two or part two

[1:24:18] Voice 2: of the housing options toolkit and present it to trust council in December and that if that's able

[1:24:26] Voice 2: to make it on that agenda with the concept that they endorse the regional planning committee to

[1:24:31] Voice 2: continue working on this as part of their strategic plans and priorities so we're not

[1:24:35] Voice 2: we're kind of, the RPC has been able to allocate resources to this because the strategic plan had

[1:24:41] Voice 2: some directions to sort of have staff rethink what the items in the strategic plan are to

[1:24:48] Voice 2: develop model bylaws. We were able to focus those resources into much more effective toolkit and

[1:24:52] Voice 2: strategy, but we're going to need to take it to Trust Council to get their endorsement for

[1:24:56] Voice 2: your work program. As you know, the Trust Council pretty much tells you guys, you know, you have to

[1:25:02] Voice 2: do a lot of things but they endorse your work program so that's what we're working towards

[1:25:06] Voice 2: so we're hoping to get your feedback on this today so we can bring it back in november for

[1:25:11] Voice 2: you get the whole package so here it is it's a very simple table and i'm not repeating what

[1:25:21] Voice 2: was in the previous request for decision which included had your goals it had your objectives

[1:25:27] Voice 2: objectives this is really boils down to the housing action list on this page these pages

[1:25:32] Voice 2: pardon me and then follows up with a little bit of discussion about the objectives and some of the

[1:25:37] Voice 2: a little bit of discussion on that and i might ask rpm kojima to pop in and help me with this he

[1:25:43] Voice 2: did a lot of editing on this and the two of us have worked on it since planner chadwick and

[1:25:48] Voice 2: planner yeomans so i'm not sure where to start with this i could go one by one or we you could

[1:25:56] Voice 2: just start asking me questions how would you like me to proceed chair presenting the housing actions

[1:26:00] Voice 2: list and the accompanying object discussion of the objectives in here um

[1:26:07] Trustee Patrick: i'll look to the members but

[1:26:09] Trustee Patrick: i would think just going down through the actions and then make sure we have at the end of the

[1:26:14] Trustee Patrick: conversation you know what are we missing just that we uh because i think some of us may have

[1:26:19] Trustee Patrick: notes of things that um may be missing okay

[1:26:22] Voice 8: does

[1:26:23] Trustee Patrick: that make sense to members any disagreement

[1:26:25] Trustee Patrick: I think they're being an agreeable lot today, so carry on.

[1:26:30] Voice 2: Excellent.

[1:26:31] Voice 2: Okay, so this was slightly edited to make it clear what's internal to the Islands Trust

[1:26:37] Voice 2: and what's advocacy and partnerships.

[1:26:39] Voice 2: Although I might argue, when reviewing it again, there's some things in here like

[1:26:44] Voice 2: streamline and support process for NGO-led rezoning applications and support housing

[1:26:49] Voice 2: affordability through agreements and land acquisition.

[1:26:51] Voice 2: that's kind of straddles internal external but without getting too much

[1:26:56] Voice 2: more I'll start at the top what you'll see here is the potential action and in

[1:27:01] Voice 2: blue the color item are the various objectives so the objectives are

[1:27:06] Voice 2: starting with identify and communicate housing needs and activities we were

[1:27:10] Voice 2: talking about that already a bit today about communication strategies and

[1:27:14] Voice 2: you'll see that the actions there's three potential actions create housing

[1:27:17] Voice 2: profiles for all LTCs and using consistent methodologies, number one, that's done. That's

[1:27:22] Voice 2: in your housing toolkit. So while we were creating the strategy, we were also doing the toolkit.

[1:27:28] Voice 2: Update housing needs assessments. We just talked about that. That needs to be done legislatively,

[1:27:33] Voice 2: so it's pending. Number three, develop communication materials identifying housing

[1:27:38] Voice 2: needs and activities being done to address them. As you can see, that's ongoing. That's one of the

[1:27:43] Voice 2: the reasons I did the housing scan to help keep the elected officials informed beyond the RPC

[1:27:48] Voice 2: and then with that we also have five thousand dollars that you have allocated for communications

[1:27:53] Voice 2: purposes which we're hoping to apply after November once we've got assuming you endorse

[1:27:59] Voice 2: you may not the draft there's no point really taking the community too much and saying this

[1:28:05] Voice 2: look what you're doing if you haven't endorsed a draft and then so that's ongoing the next one

[1:28:12] Voice 2: has developed trust-wide consistency in housing policy and objectives um

[1:28:17] Trustee Patrick: did you want to have a

[1:28:19] Trustee Patrick: like a pause

[1:28:20] Trustee Patrick: yeah do you want to have any comments on

[1:28:22] Trustee Patrick: that first block of um

[1:28:23] Trustee Patrick: thank

[1:28:24] Voice 1: you are

[1:28:26] Trustee Patrick: there any comments on the identify communicating housing needs i think

[1:28:31] Trustee Patrick: uh toby elliott you were talking about communications earlier uh

[1:28:36] Trustee Allen: trustee allen here

[1:28:37] Trustee Allen: oh

[1:28:37] Trustee Patrick: sorry trustee allen here go um i

[1:28:42] Trustee Allen: just because in terms of what uh report from tony mentioned

[1:28:46] Trustee Allen: certainly other islanders is that we have all these things these initiatives on hornby island

[1:28:51] Trustee Allen: we have density bonuses we have secondary suite zoning we have accessory drilling units with the

[1:28:57] Trustee Allen: tup we have all these things but there there's no appetite for it and

[1:29:01] Voice 8: and

[1:29:03] Trustee Allen: um so we're trying to

[1:29:04] Trustee Allen: to figure out you know we're like is it lack of awareness do people not want to do this and um

[1:29:09] Trustee Allen: i'm just wondering whether this could be captured under some title here because i'm not sure what

[1:29:16] Trustee Allen: other islands going through but you know we've got a lot of things available on our island and

[1:29:20] Trustee Allen: they're just nobody's not they're not interested or i don't know what it is and so we were going

[1:29:24] Trustee Allen: to explore that as a trust committee this year in terms of what what is going on why is it lack

[1:29:30] Trustee Allen: awareness what is it so i'd like to

[1:29:32] Trustee Patrick: hear because we are in under communication so is that something

[1:29:36] Trustee Patrick: you're suggesting as a potential topic is that we're communicating what you can do yes

[1:29:41] Trustee Allen: okay good

[1:29:43] Trustee Patrick: i'm hearing yeah anyone else uh toby elliott yes

[1:29:49] Voice 4: i i totally agree and trustee boland to

[1:29:52] Voice 4: your point earlier um what are we doing you know instead of investing resources is

[1:30:00] Voice 4: more reports notwithstanding the housing needs assessment is legislative requirement we have to

[1:30:06] Voice 4: do it so not talking about that but communicating back out to the public of about what is available

[1:30:14] Voice 4: and the tools that we do have is critical because we can have all of these internal

[1:30:22] Voice 4: tools and this toolkit and if there's no way to communicate that out in a consistent way

[1:30:28] Voice 4: and have the conversation with our communities it may as well not exist and everyone will be rightly

[1:30:35] Voice 4: um able to say that they have no idea what the islands trust does and how is it actually meeting

[1:30:41] Voice 4: the needs of people and creating a strategy for sustainable communities so we can do the work

[1:30:47] Voice 4: but if it's not communicated out it is essentially irrelevant because people don't know

[1:30:54] Voice 4: what the work is. So I strongly support the development of communications materials. I can

[1:31:01] Voice 4: see that coming back at this through the housing toolkit and the work that was done last term,

[1:31:08] Voice 4: they really did identify that budgets, you know, the business cases need to include communications

[1:31:16] Voice 4: materials and engagement materials for these projects. I think that was the assessment and

[1:31:21] Voice 4: And why this keeps coming back to us is because we're not communicating.

[1:31:25] Voice 4: We're not conveying to the public, here's what your community is at.

[1:31:29] Voice 4: We see the problems.

[1:31:30] Voice 4: Here are the trends.

[1:31:31] Voice 4: Here's how we're going to work to address them.

[1:31:33] Voice 4: So that needs to be synergized with the holistic communication strategy, which I think EC is undertaking.

[1:31:44] Voice 4: So we need to work together on this, I think.

[1:31:48] Voice 4: um

[1:31:51] Trustee Patrick: i heard you mention trends and sizes and i think that's that is some communication data

[1:31:57] Trustee Patrick: that i'm interested in if we if we're like housing profiles and census data we're dealing with stuff

[1:32:03] Trustee Patrick: that's already happened it's five years old and i think we're in a position between our staff and

[1:32:09] Trustee Patrick: our regional districts that you know handle building permits or other except for a few

[1:32:14] Trustee Patrick: islands that don't have them but you know the sizes and trends and things that we see happening

[1:32:19] Trustee Patrick: as very I think more timely data and could be the audience may be more directed to the local trust

[1:32:26] Trustee Patrick: committee so that they have information of what's happening but also that can be communicated to the

[1:32:31] Trustee Patrick: the community so they can

[1:32:33] Voice 7: see what is happening oh trustee Boland you're muted again I can only

[1:32:55] Voice 12: handle one activity I can raise my hand I'm not able to unmute um so you know to build on that

[1:33:02] Voice 12: For instance, I know on Facebook, either I or somebody else posted that there were housing strategies happening, for instance, on Main Island, which were designed to enable affordable housing.

[1:33:22] Voice 12: And somebody came back and they said, OK, what has happened?

[1:33:26] Voice 12: Has there been a single unit of affordable housing, you know, attempted because of this?

[1:33:32] Voice 12: So, I mean, that would be a great starting point, like take Main Island to appear to have led the charge and give a really good practical update on, you know, boil it down to we did ABCD.

[1:33:44] Voice 12: It took three years. We believe that we're now in a position to, you know, what is needed now is an investor or, you know, whatever the next steps are.

[1:33:54] Voice 12: but really maybe take it and use it as a kind of use case to describe how this could work

[1:34:02] Voice 12: because it is all very esoteric at the moment and it's also quite detailed and I know there's

[1:34:12] Voice 12: an enormous amount of work being done and that urban matters report was great but somehow boil

[1:34:18] Voice 12: it down into something that people can actually relate to yeah

[1:34:23] Voice 7: thanks me again okay go ahead trustee

[1:34:32] Voice 7: also

[1:34:32] Trustee Allen: um in terms of policy and regulatory constraints that exist out there constraints i

[1:34:40] Trustee Allen: mean you know in terms of everything from behind sewage and water and those things are not really

[1:34:48] Trustee Allen: captured there either and subdivision and alr and bc building codes and not recognizing little homes

[1:34:57] Trustee Allen: and

[1:34:58] Voice 7: i'm not sure where whether that's no i think that i

[1:35:07] Trustee Patrick: think you're on to it's yes i think

[1:35:09] Trustee Patrick: i think

[1:35:10] Trustee Patrick: what i'm hearing from you is the what we were just talking about is uh communicating what

[1:35:15] Trustee Patrick: you can do but you're right there's a lot of steps involved in what you um that are that are

[1:35:22] Trustee Patrick: constraints from building permits and building codes to um water to all

[1:35:29] Trustee Patrick: of these things that

[1:35:30] Trustee Patrick: have

[1:35:30] Voice 7: to be accomplished and i believe salt salt spring

[1:35:40] Trustee Patrick: the ltc on salt spring has asked staff to

[1:35:42] Trustee Patrick: try to describe all of that so that might might be pulled together hopefully um in a way that will

[1:35:49] Trustee Patrick: work so i think you're hearing communications and i and i is important i'm glad it is kind of first

[1:35:58] Trustee Patrick: stuff on this on this list because it is important and I think um and I think one of the things that

[1:36:04] Trustee Patrick: might be helpful um director Cermak under communications is to maybe to break that down

[1:36:11] Trustee Patrick: into audience because there's some things that are public that we want to share publicly and

[1:36:16] Trustee Patrick: there's some things that need would be you know sharing amongst uh you know trust local trust

[1:36:22] Trustee Patrick: committees so that they they're informed in the decision making that they're that they're making

[1:36:26] Trustee Patrick: I

[1:36:30] Voice 12: was just wondering with respect to what Trustee Allen said, is that content in the toolkit? Because the toolkit is referenced, is the content that you're asking for, i.e., you know, the things you need to do, the things that work, the things that don't work, are they all described in the toolkit? I think many of them may be. What do you think, Stefan?

[1:36:55] Voice 12: Second, I'm

[1:36:57] Voice 7: hearing Trustee Allen say about communicating

[1:36:59] Trustee Patrick: to the public.

[1:37:03] Voice 2: I'm sorry, I'm getting lost in the various questions.

[1:37:05] Voice 2: So maybe I'll start with Trustee Boland and work my way backward.

[1:37:10] Voice 2: Oh, see, I'm getting lost.

[1:37:12] Voice 2: I'm making notes of communications for different audiences.

[1:37:15] Voice 2: I kind of started writing that and I got distracted.

[1:37:18] Voice 2: Perhaps I could ask some grace, maybe work with Boland and then Allen backwards.

[1:37:23] Voice 2: Trustee Boland, could you repeat your question so I can answer it?

[1:37:27] Voice 2: You're on mute.

[1:37:28] Voice 12: I was actually just reflecting on, I thought I heard Trustee Allen say that things like the difficulties with aspects of permits and zoning and land, etc., throughout the process were not, he couldn't see them here in this.

[1:37:49] Voice 12: That's what I thought I heard. And I'm just saying that perhaps that is in the toolkit, but I may be misinterpreting what he said. So over to you, Trustee Allen.

[1:38:03] Voice 12: You're not

[1:38:03] Trustee Allen: misinterpreting what I said, Trustee Bowling.

[1:38:08] Voice 2: Excellent. Well then maybe I'll jump into that part of the conversation if you don't mind.

[1:38:12] Voice 2: The toolkit does have, it used to be Tool 10, I think we've reordered them,

[1:38:16] Voice 2: but does show the various jurisdictions involved in developing housing. If you recall,

[1:38:21] Voice 2: it had the federal government, the provincial government, it broke it down to regional

[1:38:25] Voice 2: districts, Islands Trust and so on and so forth. And it tried to show how development is a tricky

[1:38:30] Voice 2: business, especially for affordable housing. So instead of sort of saying they are constraints,

[1:38:36] Voice 2: These are just realities of developing and these are the things you have to do.

[1:38:41] Voice 2: And you may recall that part two of the housing option of the housing toolkit was to further develop those out to help nonprofit groups who are wishing to develop so that they're not spending all their time and efforts going through regulatory hoops.

[1:38:55] Voice 2: We can help them a bit more, be more advocates on their behalf, as opposed to for developers who can spend their own money doing that.

[1:39:02] Voice 2: And thank you very much.

[1:39:03] Voice 2: so that's part two and i think that'll play into this you'll see that reflected in strategy here

[1:39:09] Voice 2: but you're right uh trustee bull and alan that the housing options toolkit or the housing toolkit

[1:39:16] Voice 2: has uh does identify those uh regulatory um necessities you have to go through to

[1:39:24] Voice 2: develop and in here it sort of communicates advocacy and ways to minimize that working

[1:39:29] Voice 2: with regional districts working with the province working with other groups to try to get rid of

[1:39:34] Voice 2: those hurdles such as for you know the most common one you hear is legalizing tiny homes on wheels

[1:39:40] Voice 2: that that type of thing those are you know it's a popular option and there's a lot of activity

[1:39:45] Voice 2: happening to try to make that

[1:39:46] Voice 7: happen but it's a it's a provincial constraint so

[1:39:53] Voice 2: i'm happy to

[1:39:53] Voice 2: proceed or ask more questions about communications i will remind you that you will be getting a

[1:39:58] Voice 2: communications plan what you should be getting a communications plan or at least a draft outline

[1:40:02] Voice 2: Line F1 in the November meeting to address your $5,000 that you have.

[1:40:07] Voice 2: And hopefully, Trustee Elliott, as being on the executive committee, can keep it fresh.

[1:40:12] Voice 2: And I'll try to work with her to make sure that that housing issue with the greater

[1:40:15] Voice 2: communication strategy, to see how those two marry together.

[1:40:18] Voice 2: And we'll walk gum and, what do you say?

[1:40:22] Voice 2: Walk and chew

[1:40:23] Voice 7: gum at the same time.

[1:40:27] Voice 2: So

[1:40:28] Voice 7: I'll proceed if

[1:40:29] Voice 2: I don't hear any other voices.

[1:40:30] Voice 7: Please proceed.

[1:40:30] Trustee Patrick: Yep.

[1:40:31] Voice 2: Okay.

[1:40:31] Voice 2: So develop trust-wide consistency in housing policy and project processes.

[1:40:36] Voice 2: So these are numbers four through to eight, revise the policy statement, I'm not even going to go any further, that is being worked on, I was just, I spent far too many hours yesterday working on it, although I shouldn't say that, it was actually, I was really honoured to work on the policy statement and to help trust area services, so there are, as you know, affordable housing points in there, it was a key issue in the policy statement amendment project,

[1:41:02] Voice 2: project and that's being worked on as we speak. Prioritize funding to LTC housing projects that

[1:41:07] Voice 2: will result in effective and or innovative bylaws increasing housing options. I'm not sure that all

[1:41:12] Voice 2: those criteria being met but certainly funding for OC projects that as you saw my housing scan

[1:41:17] Voice 2: had a whole list of OC projects that are working on housing issues. Whether they're innovative or

[1:41:22] Voice 2: not it's kind of up to the individual LTCs themselves. Identify and recommend oh and I

[1:41:29] Voice 2: should also add to that that I should read the comments on this that you have developed a

[1:41:35] Voice 2: screening criteria for LTC projects and again that could be a November issue about you commenting on

[1:41:44] Voice 2: the LTC various projects for whether you think they're advancing planning objectives as from

[1:41:52] Voice 2: this group's perspective number six identify and recommend LTCs to adopt consistent definitions of

[1:41:58] Voice 2: affordable housing and other related terms. That has been promoted again in the Housing Options

[1:42:03] Voice 2: Toolkit. But of course, in order for LTCs to implement it, this is always one of the challenges

[1:42:09] Voice 2: of the trust. This group can make all the great recommendations in the world, but it's going to be

[1:42:13] Voice 2: eventually up to the individual LTCs to implement them. But at least we have, as opposed to having

[1:42:19] Voice 2: a model bylaw, we have model language, model processes, which makes it so much easier for

[1:42:24] Voice 2: the LDCs and staff person to help guide them through that process. Create housing toolkit

[1:42:29] Voice 2: for planners. That's done. And create a model engagement project process for LDCs that will

[1:42:35] Voice 2: educate and effectively engage communities in affordable housing discussions that the regional

[1:42:41] Voice 2: planning team is looking to review and expand on that engagement plan. And these include the

[1:42:47] Voice 2: questions. I believe Trustee Patrick flagged most of these questions last time. And I've heard this

[1:42:52] Voice 2: discussion several times already today or at least you know heading towards a similar direction you

[1:42:57] Voice 2: know these are when an ltc is making a project and they're trying to ask themselves you know

[1:43:01] Voice 2: what makes up a healthy and diverse island community what kinds of housing is needed for

[1:43:06] Voice 2: a healthy and diverse island community where should growth be directed as opposed to it's

[1:43:11] Voice 2: not additional growth necessarily it's focused growth into an area and uh how do we help first

[1:43:16] Voice 2: nations return to the island community so those were some of the the questions we captured from

[1:43:20] Voice 2: last time and so they're meant to be captured here such that um yeah so

[1:43:25] Voice 2: when you're asking

[1:43:26] Voice 2: the beginning of the process of an ltc ocp and lub amendment project these are the questions

[1:43:31] Voice 2: that are at the forefront some of the questions of course so

[1:43:35] Voice 7: i'll pause there and

[1:43:38] Voice 12: not the content

[1:43:41] Voice 12: as such but um stefan where can we get copies of the latest versions of the toolkit or the

[1:43:50] Voice 12: engagement process etc etc because um it would be helpful to be able to access those and review them

[1:44:01] Voice 12: in the context of this that you've provided thank you that's

[1:44:06] Voice 2: an easy answer that'd be from your last

[1:44:08] Voice 2: july rpc meeting okay

[1:44:13] Voice 12: i wasn't at that meeting that's fine i can come on i can go there and

[1:44:21] Voice 12: is probably in web dev which of course i can't access but it'll be online

[1:44:25] Voice 12: north america

[1:44:28] Voice 12: um okay that's fine but those those are the most recent okay thank you that's right

[1:44:37] Voice 7: any other questions

[1:44:38] Trustee Patrick: i know i have one and i'm and i know this was i think something we talked

[1:44:44] Trustee Patrick: about last time too and that is to me there's some corrections pieces all of our islands were

[1:44:52] Trustee Patrick: dealt pretty much the zoning that's in place was was put here by someone else not even the

[1:44:59] Trustee Patrick: islands trust and which creates a potential for for development that may or may not be in the

[1:45:08] Trustee Patrick: right places because the zoning was never really done on any you know real basis of of importance

[1:45:16] Trustee Patrick: importance. And that would also could be related to some of our rules like lot coverage and setbacks

[1:45:25] Trustee Patrick: and things that were perhaps dated from a time when we were building cottages and cabins instead

[1:45:32] Trustee Patrick: of large homes. Is there a corrections piece that's sort of missing our opportunity? We seem

[1:45:41] Trustee Patrick: to be focusing on on potential opportunities of what we can do to create the options but we're

[1:45:48] Trustee Patrick: not focusing on the opportunities perhaps correct um zoning that uh isn't in place and i know you

[1:45:57] Trustee Patrick: know down zoning and words like that are are challenges and hard but could there be or should

[1:46:04] Trustee Patrick: there be guidance that helps helps direct you know things possible corrections in existing

[1:46:11] Trustee Patrick: existing zoning. Maybe I'm not wording that correctly. I don't know if anyone else feels

[1:46:14] Voice 7: that way. Perhaps I

[1:46:19] Voice 2: could speak to that, Madam Chair.

[1:46:20] Voice 5: Go for it.

[1:46:21] Voice 2: Yeah, I think that's the purpose

[1:46:23] Voice 2: of, you're right, you know, all the islands were gifted zoning when the, pardon me, when the

[1:46:29] Voice 2: regional districts took over and then islands just inherited them. You know, your OCP is your

[1:46:36] Voice 2: vision document. You're free, that doesn't, that document is what creates the vision. It should be

[1:46:42] Voice 2: redone as needed. It's recommended every five to 10 years. And of course, it's very difficult when

[1:46:47] Voice 2: you have 23 or 20 to 23 OCPs and a difficult budget to manage all those changes. But that's

[1:46:55] Voice 2: the freedom that you have to envision what it is you want your community to be. What is it healthy?

[1:47:00] Voice 2: What is it a diverse? How did those policies affect things? So that's your key document,

[1:47:04] Voice 2: your official community plan. It should reflect the community as it is today and as they want

[1:47:09] Voice 2: to be tomorrow in the future implementing from the ocp to the land use bylaw is always the trickiest

[1:47:15] Voice 2: component and hopefully that always follows right after you finish an ocp but in practice i notice

[1:47:20] Voice 2: that's not true but it should be as true as possible and and that is the hard part because

[1:47:26] Voice 2: you have to really you could take away um what people perceive as their rights or their wishes

[1:47:32] Voice 2: or their wants and i can i can think of countless examples where that's true where people you

[1:47:37] Voice 2: recommend pushing them in a direction to support rental housing and they push back and they say no

[1:47:43] Voice 2: and so I think I think that's inherent in the policy in the toolkit that says your OCP can

[1:47:53] Voice 2: do very many things and then follow up with your land use bylaw they can do them all that's all in

[1:47:57] Voice 2: baked in there and but I think the process that you're talking about here Patrick and perhaps

[1:48:01] Voice 2: I'm wrong but is the very tricky business of converting or implementing your OCP

[1:48:06] Voice 2: into a land use bylaw, because it's one thing to dream, but when the rubber hits the road

[1:48:12] Voice 2: with regulations, I think that's when people get a little bit

[1:48:15] Voice 1: sketchy.

[1:48:16] Voice 1: But so I would argue that it's there, I guess my whole point.

[1:48:21] Voice 1: Is it here?

[1:48:22] Trustee Patrick: I'll go to other members.

[1:48:23] Trustee Patrick: How do people feel about that?

[1:48:25] Trustee Patrick: Do you feel that that's there?

[1:48:27] Trustee Allen: Trustee Allen?

[1:48:28] Trustee Patrick: Sorry, Trustee Allen.

[1:48:30] Trustee Patrick: Go for it.

[1:48:31] Trustee Allen: I'm getting used to this now.

[1:48:33] Trustee Allen: I just want to clarify, are you talking about sort of enabling density bonuses?

[1:48:38] Trustee Allen: and things like secondary dwelling units through TUPs?

[1:48:43] Trustee Allen: Is that what you mean?

[1:48:43] Trustee Allen: I'm just wondering what

[1:48:45] Trustee Patrick: you mean by rezoning.

[1:48:47] Trustee Patrick: I'm looking at a lot of times this conversation is about the new, the more,

[1:48:51] Trustee Patrick: the added, which always gets conversations up on our islands.

[1:48:59] Trustee Patrick: We have existing zoning and land use bylaws that can continue to be built out.

[1:49:08] Trustee Patrick: Houses can go where they're going.

[1:49:10] Trustee Patrick: whether or not it's the right place but it's already been zoned that zoning exists

[1:49:14] Trustee Patrick: or setbacks are you know are very large or a lot coverage is very large um so it's it's the options

[1:49:24] Trustee Patrick: you have as a trustee or a local trust committee to correct or try to you know minimize the impacts

[1:49:30] Trustee Patrick: of just housing in general as it carries on.

[1:49:36] Voice 7: Okay.

[1:49:41] Voice 7: Trustee Luck, oh, now you're muted.

[1:49:50] Trustee Luckham: Well, you raise a great point.

[1:49:52] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, some of that conversation exists

[1:49:55] Trustee Luckham: on all the islands that include everything

[1:49:58] Trustee Luckham: from getting rid of the zoning

[1:49:59] Trustee Luckham: and getting rid of all the regulation

[1:50:01] Trustee Luckham: and stopping doing environmental protection

[1:50:03] Trustee Luckham: in order to give everybody a free hand

[1:50:07] Trustee Luckham: to the other side of the spectrum

[1:50:09] Trustee Luckham: Where we need to down zone and create more restrictions in order to protect the environment. And ever it was thus, I guess, is the phrase, and we're stuck in the middle. But certainly the OCP review is, I think, and the staff can correct me if I'm wrong, if you really want to down zone properties or change community,

[1:50:31] Trustee Luckham: community, the design that's on the table in terms of commercial, recreational, or otherwise,

[1:50:38] Trustee Luckham: and setbacks and all the rest of it. That opportunity exists, but that would be a pretty

[1:50:43] Trustee Luckham: brave trustee to wade into that water to make those kinds of changes, which Stefan has suggested,

[1:50:52] Trustee Luckham: and entitlement was a word that occasionally is used, is that when somebody buys a piece of

[1:50:58] Trustee Luckham: of property, they assume that they are entitled to undertake certain kinds of activities,

[1:51:04] Trustee Luckham: some assured by the OCPs and LUBs and others that they think is a natural right of title.

[1:51:11] Trustee Luckham: But that's sort of straying a little further afield.

[1:51:15] Trustee Luckham: But the potential is, you know, it doesn't, I think there's a handful, smaller than a

[1:51:22] Trustee Luckham: handful of situations where LTCs have actually downzoned a property.

[1:51:27] Trustee Luckham: and um it gets uh pretty painful for everybody

[1:51:32] Voice 7: there you go um

[1:51:40] Trustee Patrick: that's okay i just was throwing

[1:51:42] Trustee Patrick: that out there if that's uh interest to trustee elliott this

[1:51:47] Voice 4: is um the crux of the problem

[1:51:49] Voice 4: actually it's trying to wrangle a set of tools that are progressive and proactive and address

[1:52:00] Voice 4: the needs of communities today but based on mapping and zoning that has already been decided

[1:52:07] Voice 4: and so at what point can we have that conversation with our communities is it in the ocp review which

[1:52:14] Voice 4: gabriela is going into and i know salt spring is in the midst of is down zone is there appetite

[1:52:19] Voice 4: for down zoning certainly no political person wants to introduce that topic because um i think

[1:52:28] Voice 4: I think it was the former senior governmental policy advisor, Lisa Wilcox, who said that landholder rights have always been held as the highest sort of rights to be protected.

[1:52:46] Voice 4: And now we are trying to address the underlying rights of nations and of communities and settlements who have been there for a couple of decades, as others have pointed out, and are uncomfortable with the direction their communities are going.

[1:53:05] Voice 4: and how do we address the bigger principles of those underlying rights and title in these

[1:53:13] Voice 4: communities while still holding up this principle that somehow you own land and therefore you get

[1:53:21] Voice 4: to decide what what is done with that property so the collective rights undrip indigenous rights

[1:53:28] Voice 4: and title this is a really hard conversation to have with our communities it needs to be directed

[1:53:35] Voice 4: by the policy statement amendment project, and it needs to keep coming back to first principles that,

[1:53:41] Voice 4: yes, this was the scheme in which lots were divided up and allocated on essentially what

[1:53:49] Voice 4: was stolen land, but how do we do this differently? Do we need to downzone? And

[1:53:55] Voice 4: as a political person, we have to take the lead on that and have the conversation in our

[1:54:02] Voice 4: communities is down zoning going to happen so i'm not quite ready for it but i think it's a

[1:54:09] Voice 4: necessary conversation to have thank

[1:54:13] Voice 7: you thank you trustee bowman okay

[1:54:18] Voice 12: i got my own muting right

[1:54:20] Voice 12: um down zoning first of all if you consider the ocps as they were and then you look at the islands

[1:54:27] Voice 12: some of them more so than others uh there's effective down zoning in the covenanting and

[1:54:33] Voice 12: and the protection under Parks Canada, the Gulf Islands Reserve, etc., etc.,

[1:54:40] Voice 12: you know, land has been purchased and lot densities have been removed

[1:54:46] Voice 12: from the original planned OCP lot densities.

[1:54:52] Voice 12: So that's worth looking at before you start to talk about downzoning.

[1:54:57] Voice 12: Downzoning and recognising Indigenous rights,

[1:55:00] Voice 12: that would have to be a negotiation and I don't think that the trust has the capacity to do that

[1:55:06] Voice 12: but it certainly doesn't have the capacity to provide funding to compensate people who might

[1:55:12] Voice 12: be affected so I would see that as very very talking about private land it's quite dangerous

[1:55:22] Voice 12: dangerous waters, I would say. And I don't think we are really set up to undertake that.

[1:55:33] Voice 12: Yeah,

[1:55:33] Trustee Patrick: I mean, please don't mistake me. What I was trying to make my point was that we tend to

[1:55:39] Trustee Patrick: have these conversations about loading all this on to affordable housing or more options of housing

[1:55:46] Trustee Patrick: for people who can't afford it and yet we tend to not talk about what's already allowed and will

[1:55:54] Trustee Patrick: continue to happen you know so it's kind of an unfair balance in which we we lump all of this

[1:56:01] Trustee Patrick: on to the most vulnerable in our communities and the least able to afford what needs to be done

[1:56:07] Trustee Patrick: what I was what I talk about a tool is more your down zoning is sort of the last resort and that

[1:56:13] Trustee Patrick: That wasn't I wasn't saying that's where we go first. To me, there's a hierarchy of you could start with setbacks.

[1:56:19] Trustee Patrick: There's there's lot coverage, there's clustering, there's home plating, there's all these words that could happen that are help correct the pattern of growth and without having to affect the rights of the people,

[1:56:35] Trustee Patrick: except for encouraging them and nudging them to build respectfully or small prints and things of

[1:56:44] Trustee Patrick: that nature. That was the tool I was looking at more was there's a choice of tools there or

[1:56:50] Trustee Patrick: options that we could be thinking about and considering when we look at our OCPs, just as

[1:56:54] Trustee Patrick: there is a list of tools that we could do to expand the housing options. To me, they kind of

[1:57:00] Trustee Patrick: go hand in hand and should be the conversations we're having in the community. So we're not just

[1:57:05] Trustee Patrick: talking about always just about affordable housing and and those people who need that housing it's

[1:57:12] Trustee Patrick: like no no we're a community we need to be looking at all forms of housing across the spectrum

[1:57:16] Trustee Patrick: and be

[1:57:17] Trustee Patrick: equitable in

[1:57:19] Voice 7: our way forward trustee boland yeah

[1:57:27] Voice 12: just a different uh take on it so

[1:57:29] Voice 12: something that i don't understand and perhaps it could be discussed here is so assuming you know

[1:57:36] Voice 12: a piece of land is uh you know the zoning the requirements you know are suitable how do people

[1:57:47] Voice 12: achieve funding what is the funding model to make that housing initiative work who buys the land

[1:57:56] Voice 12: builds the house creates the agreement to allow other people use those properties or rent them

[1:58:05] Voice 12: or buy them that's something that you know it's it's not our responsibility but it's perhaps our

[1:58:11] Voice 12: responsibility to understand the interface between where ours stops and that begins and even to

[1:58:20] Voice 12: consider how and who you would like who would you communicate to like I don't know I'm just

[1:58:26] Voice 12: Just imagining, are there credit unions, are there banks, are there individual investors who, if the Islands Trust went and said, you know, we've put all this effort into making it possible and making it easy.

[1:58:43] Voice 12: We have planners standing by to help you. We have, you know, a community engaged.

[1:58:49] Voice 12: engaged. Who are those people? What are those opportunities that we could help bring to the

[1:58:56] Voice 12: table by just engaging in dialogue?

[1:59:01] Trustee Patrick: Well, I think that's probably another tool set. This one was

[1:59:04] Trustee Patrick: sort of the consistency with the housing policy. So if that's okay, I think we'll pick that kind

[1:59:11] Trustee Patrick: of comment up in one of the later advocacy and partnership pieces. So I think with that,

[1:59:17] Trustee Patrick: Stefan, please move on.

[1:59:19] Voice 2: Sure.

[1:59:20] Voice 2: Madam Chair, I just

[1:59:21] Trustee Patrick: want to comment.

[1:59:21] Voice 2: I was counting on time.

[1:59:22] Trustee Patrick: 12 o'clock.

[1:59:23] Trustee Patrick: Sorry.

[1:59:23] Trustee Patrick: Go ahead.

[1:59:25] Voice 2: Okay.

[1:59:26] Voice 2: I just wanted to comment, you know, dangerous waters, I caught that.

[1:59:30] Voice 2: LTCs are legally well within the right to change the zoning.

[1:59:34] Voice 2: You need not feel dangerous waters.

[1:59:36] Voice 2: It's political dangerous waters, perhaps, but certainly legally not.

[1:59:40] Voice 2: You're more worth, you're perfectly fine to do it.

[1:59:43] Voice 2: it just sometimes takes my favorite story is having the community throw the new bylaw at

[1:59:50] Voice 2: the representatives at a table so it takes that kind of fortitude I suppose if you believe in

[1:59:55] Voice 2: your convictions but with that I'll move on to well

[1:59:59] Trustee Patrick: actually it is new

[2:00:00] Trustee Patrick: noon um thank

[2:00:01] Voice 2: you and

[2:00:02] Trustee Patrick: we have a lot of stuff we need to get through i guess we're kind of a

[2:00:06] Trustee Patrick: talkative group and uh she's going to make the november meeting challenging to make a december

[2:00:12] Trustee Patrick: meeting but that's okay let's get it right um it's noon is 30 minutes uh well going to be

[2:00:22] Trustee Patrick: sufficient do you want to start 12 30 or 12 35 since we're already eating into that time what

[2:00:27] Trustee Patrick: what do we have? 1235.

[2:00:32] Trustee Patrick: 1235 has my vote. 1235. 1235 I'm

[2:00:35] Trustee Patrick: hearing. So let's take a break. We'll

[2:00:38] Trustee Patrick: come back at 1235. Let's pick up the pace and get through this. All right.

[2:00:43] Voice 7: All right. Thanks.

[2:34:13] Voice 7: we are just

[2:34:14] Voice 7: still eating that's

[2:34:16] Trustee Patrick: all right you're not the only one that appears to be chewing

[2:34:21] Trustee Patrick: that's all right it's trustee allen back yes

[2:34:24] Voice 7: i am all right

[2:34:25] Voice 7: just i'll make sure

[2:34:26] Voice 7: i should have

[2:34:38] Trustee Patrick: mentioned the uh trustee grahams did send me comments so i i do have comments

[2:34:43] Trustee Patrick: on the table just uh his comments will be beginning in this next section that i have here

[2:34:48] Trustee Patrick: so i'll try to remember to share them as i go forward do

[2:34:56] Voice 7: we have enough people back

[2:34:57] Voice 7: I hear

[2:35:07] Trustee Patrick: trustee Allen you know trustee Elliott's eating so yes I think we've got a quorum to carry

[2:35:13] Trustee Patrick: on so we'll we'll get started for those who were good enough to be back on time because we have

[2:35:19] Trustee Patrick: things to get to here okay so we're carrying on the table and I think we're on the section

[2:35:25] Trustee Patrick: on the suitable land for additional housing go ahead director Sarmack thank

[2:35:35] Voice 2: you okay so number

[2:35:36] Voice 2: nine through eleven is identify suitable oops where's my book suitable land analysis or suitable

[2:35:42] Voice 2: land for additional housing uh use evidence-based research of course that's uh required that we

[2:35:48] Voice 2: do things with you know it's planning not guessing uh so that's ongoing we're the suitable land

[2:35:55] Voice 2: analysis initiative um that this group has sponsored or supported staff doing um of course

[2:36:02] Voice 2: we've just lost um mark and bakel who is uh more institutional knowledge and we can possibly

[2:36:09] Voice 2: quantify he was helping us with uh backfilling some uh gis support uh geographic information

[2:36:17] Voice 2: services uh and that he i'm not sure where it's at right now robert kojima has been sort of working

[2:36:25] Voice 2: with him i think we still have the staff person working to deliver that product so as far as i

[2:36:30] Voice 2: know it's still ongoing and uh robert could

[2:36:34] Voice 7: correct me if i'm wrong yeah thanks stephanie

[2:36:40] Voice 7: yeah it's still on

[2:36:41] Voice 13: it's still ongoing um i'll find out more friday perfect

[2:36:45] Voice 2: thank you uh consider

[2:36:48] Voice 2: social and economic implications of housing location and evaluation of suitable land for

[2:36:52] Voice 2: additional housing um yeah that wasn't it's really hard to put you know social economic

[2:36:59] Voice 2: economic data into a GIS map, although of course not impossible. I've seen some amazing maps that

[2:37:05] Voice 2: do that. So future action, we have not started that. And consider First Nations interests when

[2:37:13] Voice 2: identifying land suitable for additional development. As you all know, one way or

[2:37:18] Voice 2: another, we're working with First Nations as much as possible in which ways that they wish to be

[2:37:22] Voice 2: worked with within the confines that we're able to. So that work is ongoing and it's also, of

[2:37:28] Voice 2: of course, future action. So I'll pause there. That's that one objective.

[2:37:33] Voice 7: Question. Go ahead.

[2:37:34] Voice 7: Yeah. So

[2:37:35] Voice 4: those last two, they're different aspects of the same issue or opportunity,

[2:37:45] Voice 4: perhaps, which is how do we identify these non-ecological factors that need to be taken

[2:37:55] Voice 4: it into account and I would suggest that the two the referral process so having a draft map that

[2:38:03] Voice 4: is sent to First Nations and asking them where would you consider is you know important integral

[2:38:13] Voice 4: to your interests at this time or in the future flagging some areas that we might not be aware of

[2:38:21] Voice 4: They may not want to tell us why or what's there, but do we have a tool to do that?

[2:38:27] Voice 4: And then the social and economic implications, can we do the same thing with not just housing

[2:38:32] Voice 4: groups, but community wellness groups that have collected a lot of data and information

[2:38:37] Voice 4: about the social and wellness factors in their communities?

[2:38:42] Voice 4: And so that we don't have to do all this in-house, can it be a collaborative project with our

[2:38:48] Voice 4: community groups and stakeholders?

[2:38:49] Voice 4: stakeholders and then with First Nations sort of having a draft map would be great draft map would

[2:38:56] Voice 4: be great here's all the ecological factors here's what we know here's the different layers but those

[2:39:01] Voice 4: social things really we shouldn't have to quantify our communities know and First Nations know where

[2:39:08] Voice 4: the suitable and non-suitable land would be.

[2:39:15] Voice 2: I'll respond to that if that's okay.

[2:39:17] Voice 1: Okay.

[2:39:17] Voice 2: So great questions. And this is why their sort of future action is the first phase we're

[2:39:25] Voice 2: working on suitable land analysis is using all the data that we do have that's relevant.

[2:39:30] Voice 2: And so making sure we kind of get the methodology down correct. One thing about having someone like

[2:39:37] Voice 2: Mark in our system for so long, he knows everything, but didn't necessarily document

[2:39:41] Voice 2: document everything so we're that was our first foremost trying to document that so the first

[2:39:47] Voice 2: iteration of the suitable land analysis is to present to you a map based on what we know

[2:39:52] Voice 2: then this next phase would be including things that we don't know and we're not sure how we'd

[2:39:58] Voice 2: like to do that my hunch is that each LTC would probably like something slightly different but

[2:40:04] Voice 2: this is indeed why this strategy if this is important this is the type of thing that we're

[2:40:09] Voice 2: suggesting say next year with with some support uh for implementation of the strategy that we've we

[2:40:15] Voice 2: we dig up some of those

[2:40:16] Voice 7: answers well um

[2:40:24] Trustee Patrick: i know since i don't see other hands up or where's oh

[2:40:28] Trustee Patrick: my list of hands as i said make sure trustee allen's hand isn't up um i do like i said repeat

[2:40:35] Trustee Patrick: concerns with mapping i've done a lot of reading and you know this is i know you're calling it

[2:40:45] Trustee Patrick: different than a build-out analysis, but a build-out analysis really is about testing your

[2:40:48] Trustee Patrick: models. It's based on what I, you know, if we do nothing, this is what it's going to look like. If

[2:40:54] Trustee Patrick: we change this, this is what it could look like. And the suitability analysis, creating a map

[2:41:04] Trustee Patrick: that has these bases in it, and then, okay, somebody donates land for a housing project

[2:41:09] Trustee Patrick: that's outside the map. You know, we're going to be right in it of, is this the right place or not?

[2:41:15] Trustee Patrick: was the map didn't factor in these other things but yet the map exists and there will be people

[2:41:19] Trustee Patrick: that are holding up the map saying well you can't have that property or shouldn't develop that one

[2:41:22] Trustee Patrick: because it's not applicable um so we have to i think we have to think very carefully on this one

[2:41:27] Trustee Patrick: of you know what it where it's going how it's being used and that it's um um you know who's

[2:41:37] Trustee Patrick: judging what's suitable not suitable and and you know so like i said this one's full of landmines

[2:41:42] Trustee Patrick: for me and my concerns? I see Trustee Bullen's hands up.

[2:41:49] Voice 12: Could we have a demo? I think that

[2:41:51] Voice 12: would be really helpful for us to try and understand both what you're doing and maybe

[2:41:57] Voice 12: we can contribute some ideas, but certainly I would love to see how you do it.

[2:42:05] Voice 2: Well, if I may,

[2:42:06] Voice 2: I'll say that the first use of that has been on the main islands use for developing a pilot area

[2:42:11] Voice 2: area for increased density so that's the first example of it that has been sort of applied

[2:42:17] Voice 2: and that was a very sort of it was an early attempt to do exactly this and that's what's

[2:42:22] Voice 2: fed the model so far what i don't think that did and they could correct me if i'm wrong i don't

[2:42:27] Voice 2: think it necessarily included uh although it would have ignored the uh in the mapping itself

[2:42:34] Voice 2: the the sort of environmental protection side of things where not to develop it was really focused

[2:42:39] Voice 2: on where's the water where's the potential density and sort of zeroed in on that but i think i might

[2:42:44] Voice 2: be speaking a little bit too um out of turn maybe uh mr kojima is still online and um he could sort

[2:42:50] Voice 2: of speak to that main as a demonstration that maybe actually could even talk about where the

[2:42:54] Voice 2: model is and such that we could um have a demo i'm not sure that we're there yet

[2:42:59] Voice 7: but um mr kojima

[2:43:01] Voice 7: robert um

[2:43:05] Voice 13: the main it's called the project was called flex housing and yeah primarily focused

[2:43:10] Voice 13: focused on groundwater availability.

[2:43:13] Voice 13: It was an early version of the land suitability mapping.

[2:43:21] Voice 13: Having a demo, yeah, I would expect

[2:43:23] Voice 13: by the November meeting,

[2:43:24] Voice 13: we could probably have a version of it.

[2:43:27] Voice 13: Again, like I said earlier, I'll find out more shortly.

[2:43:30] Voice 7: Right.

[2:43:31] Voice 7: All right.

[2:43:39] Voice 7: Well, I guess for that these,

[2:43:44] Voice 7: do

[2:43:46] Trustee Patrick: you need, oops, Trustee Leckham?

[2:43:49] Trustee Luckham: a little slow on the draw there sorry just on this topic suitable lands because i don't see

[2:43:56] Trustee Luckham: it referenced anywhere but on all just as background on pretty much all of the islands

[2:44:03] Trustee Luckham: there's always a conversation about agricultural uh land and land that's unsuitable for agriculture

[2:44:09] Trustee Luckham: and yet land that sits inaccessible because it's zoned for agriculture and is that part of the

[2:44:17] Trustee Luckham: suitable land analysis initiative to determine whether or not there's some suitability with

[2:44:25] Trustee Luckham: lands. Often they're looked at for industrial uses and other uses. But the most obvious one

[2:44:33] Trustee Luckham: is that housing opportunities that exist on land that is maybe undervalued and not being

[2:44:39] Trustee Luckham: utilized in a good way. And of course, the opportunity to provide farm worker housing

[2:44:45] Trustee Luckham: obviously exists on those patches as well well

[2:44:50] Voice 2: I'll start this but perhaps

[2:44:52] Voice 2: you know Robert would like to contribute if land as you know is in the

[2:44:55] Voice 2: Agricultural Land Commission there's a whole patchwork of work to go through to

[2:45:01] Voice 2: get it out in order to make it suitable for for affordable hand I'm aware on

[2:45:05] Voice 2: some islands that there's some societies are advancing development in the

[2:45:11] Voice 2: agricultural land commission uh knowing or assuming they won't be um let's see

[2:45:19] Voice 2: yeah they're just going to build it anyways and sort of catch me if you can we don't care what

[2:45:24] Voice 2: you say type thing so naming no names but going to the agricultural land commission and having

[2:45:30] Voice 2: it removed that'd be up to the ltc to identify those suitable areas i think as a broad stroke

[2:45:35] Voice 2: choked, we would not recommend development in the ALC. But if the individual LTC wanted

[2:45:40] Voice 2: to do a development in the ALC, they would have to make that application to have it removed.

[2:45:46] Voice 2: And as you know, having seen applications many times over your time with the trust,

[2:45:51] Voice 2: it's

[2:45:51] Voice 7: not an easy process.

[2:45:53] Voice 2: Oh, interesting. So, yeah,

[2:45:56] Voice 7: I think it's

[2:45:57] Voice 2: a broad... Sorry, that's a fun noise to have

[2:46:00] Voice 2: I've interrupted you.

[2:46:02] Voice 2: There it is.

[2:46:04] Voice 2: Perhaps I can advise whomever's got a phone dial

[2:46:06] Voice 2: doing a funky thing to hang it up.

[2:46:09] Trustee Luckham: I think they just muted.

[2:46:11] Voice 2: There you go.

[2:46:13] Voice 2: Yeah, so I think, like I said,

[2:46:15] Voice 2: Broadstroke, ALC, not an area

[2:46:17] Voice 2: that we'd ever advise to develop,

[2:46:19] Voice 2: but up to the individual LTC,

[2:46:21] Voice 2: if they say, we like this spot.

[2:46:23] Voice 2: And of course, I live on Salt Spring.

[2:46:24] Voice 2: It makes a lot of sense surrounding Ganges in some places.

[2:46:27] Voice 2: But then that's a process that the LTC would have to engage.

[2:46:30] Voice 2: Or I guess it's local government, First Nations, and other institutes can apply.

[2:46:36] Voice 2: It's not just the LTC, but predominantly would be.

[2:46:39] Voice 2: Anything you want to add to that, Robert, about agricultural lands or other suitable lands?

[2:46:44] Voice 13: So, yeah, the mapping analysis will identify the agricultural land reserve lands.

[2:46:50] Voice 13: It's not intended to do any sort of analysis on the actual capability,

[2:46:58] Voice 13: capability agricultural capability of land within the ALR um like Stefan said that would you know be

[2:47:04] Voice 13: up to a local trust committee um if there's a proposal on agricultural land to um have a look

[2:47:11] Voice 13: at whether it's um not suitable for or less suitable for agriculture thank

[2:47:21] Voice 7: you these are

[2:47:23] Voice 7: are challenging issues through the chair yes

[2:47:28] Trustee Allen: oh trustee allen yeah and i would add um crown land

[2:47:32] Trustee Allen: which is what we're looking at right now in our community

[2:47:36] Voice 7: for a possible housing project i i think

[2:47:49] Trustee Patrick: as staff carry on with looking at this i understand that the the the desire that we're trying to go to

[2:47:55] Trustee Patrick: to a map that if this becomes a complex problem,

[2:48:01] Trustee Patrick: which it may, is more of almost like a matrix

[2:48:05] Trustee Patrick: or listing method or checklisting of suitability qualities

[2:48:14] Trustee Patrick: and things of that nature,

[2:48:17] Trustee Patrick: maybe something else to consider as we go forward

[2:48:21] Trustee Patrick: rather than a map or the public facing piece

[2:48:24] Trustee Patrick: is more of that, maybe an accompanying.

[2:48:29] Trustee Patrick: So just something to think about as we go forward

[2:48:32] Trustee Patrick: if a map

[2:48:32] Voice 8: becomes

[2:48:34] Trustee Patrick: too challenging.

[2:48:38] Voice 2: And if I may, Terry, before I go on,

[2:48:41] Voice 2: the RPC has expressed this before,

[2:48:44] Voice 2: and staff shared that communicating outwards

[2:48:48] Voice 2: what the map is and the assumptions that are behind it

[2:48:52] Voice 2: and the purpose of it will be critical.

[2:48:54] Voice 2: are totally aware that map conveys information and it's always going to be biased whatever map

[2:48:58] Voice 2: you produce for whatever purpose and that has to be clearly communicated it's meant to be a tool

[2:49:05] Voice 2: to help first blush any tool like this as soon as you get down to the the lot level it becomes

[2:49:12] Voice 2: less reliable right it's meant to be a broad swath just like an ocp so but we'll we'll when we bring

[2:49:19] Voice 2: it back and if we are ready to use it or recommend it to ldcs on a regular basis we'll make sure

[2:49:22] Voice 2: there's communications with it and i thought we had agreed before that any map would have a

[2:49:26] Voice 2: covering page outlining the assumptions and the history of how it was made and why it was made so

[2:49:32] Voice 2: yeah i'm very conscious to that yeah

[2:49:34] Trustee Patrick: um because the other thing to me is suitable is is intensity

[2:49:41] Trustee Patrick: of use it's one thing to say someone's putting a secondary suite into their house versus it's

[2:49:46] Trustee Patrick: another to say i'm building a multi-family complex of 24 units um you know so we should be very clear

[2:49:54] Trustee Patrick: as to what intensity we are trying to capture with this map um going

[2:50:02] Voice 7: forward all right

[2:50:04] Trustee Patrick: um

[2:50:05] Voice 7: with that

[2:50:06] Trustee Patrick: um i think we're i think that's all we can talk about so then keep going next one sure uh okay

[2:50:15] Voice 2: Okay. Encourage LTC land use policy review. Encourage LTCs to update OCPs to facilitate

[2:50:21] Voice 2: the development of housing to address housing needs. And number 13, encourage LTCs to create

[2:50:26] Voice 2: opportunities through zoning for housing forms. And of course, this is being done by several LTCs

[2:50:32] Voice 2: and it's ongoing and I suspect it'll be forever ongoing. Okay.

[2:50:40] Voice 1: I'm going to move on.

[2:50:42] Trustee Patrick: I was going to say, I'm wondering at some point too, like I noticed there are a number of LTCs

[2:50:48] Trustee Patrick: that are working very similar overlapping projects that they're to me that's something

[2:50:52] Trustee Patrick: that could be of interest to a trust council meeting it may not could be a a dinner time talk

[2:50:58] Trustee Patrick: you know or something

[2:50:59] Trustee Patrick: of that to see what's happening so some trustees may not be aware

[2:51:04] Trustee Patrick: of what's happening at in at a number of trust uh local trust committees so

[2:51:08] Trustee Patrick: we should make sure we're communicating that okay carry on

[2:51:13] Trustee Patrick: yeah i see you oh sorry

[2:51:17] Trustee Allen: trustee alan

[2:51:19] Trustee Allen: No, and I would say, well, also, you know, how we always have the trustee roundtable as council, you know, and sometimes I like it when it's focused on something. So maybe we could do that with a trustee roundtable as well.

[2:51:33] Trustee Patrick: So executive member, members, you just heard a suggestion. Think about it.

[2:51:40] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[2:51:41] Trustee Patrick: All right, carry on. Director Zermack.

[2:51:44] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[2:51:45] Voice 2: Just capturing that note. Okay. So where are we? We're on streamline and support process

[2:51:50] Voice 2: for NGO-led rezoning applications, develop communication materials on pre-development

[2:51:56] Voice 2: steps for community organizations. That really describes part two of the toolkit. That's a

[2:52:02] Voice 2: future item. We have not started any of that work. Number 15 is resource a technical services fund

[2:52:09] Voice 2: to commission professional reports

[2:52:11] Voice 2: for site-specific affordable housing projects

[2:52:13] Voice 2: on a granting function

[2:52:15] Voice 2: to support pre-development costs

[2:52:17] Voice 2: for affordable housing, future action.

[2:52:19] Voice 2: I'm going to pause there for a second.

[2:52:22] Voice 2: I've seen a lot of budgetary changes.

[2:52:24] Voice 2: Budget seems to change all the time

[2:52:25] Voice 2: how we budget within the trust over the decades.

[2:52:28] Voice 2: And it used to be that the director,

[2:52:30] Voice 2: this was many moons ago,

[2:52:31] Voice 2: had a technical fund,

[2:52:33] Voice 2: I believe it was $100,000,

[2:52:34] Voice 2: that they could apply to doing

[2:52:36] Voice 2: whatever technical study was required

[2:52:38] Voice 2: required that wasn't anticipated. Now, I understand the current nature of sort of the

[2:52:44] Voice 2: fiscal conservative nature that's sort of should be, you know, regular, but that really helped

[2:52:50] Voice 2: streamline getting necessary reports done that were requested that were unanticipated. And this

[2:52:57] Voice 2: is one of those types of things is if we're able to help applicants get through things.

[2:53:03] Voice 2: So $100,000, though, just as an example, and you'll not see a business case from me yet this year because this is ongoing and you'll want to certainly dive into this.

[2:53:13] Voice 2: But it used to be a methodology that was quite effective at getting various mapping that was needed or getting reports done.

[2:53:20] Voice 2: And last thought about this is you'll see what's happening right now in the CRD in the Southern Gulf Islands is they've developed a robust program to address housing needs.

[2:53:30] Voice 2: needs. One of the key things, at least in my opinion, is they're seeking to use funding

[2:53:37] Voice 2: to actually develop affordable housing, which is what everyone's trying to do, by supporting

[2:53:44] Voice 2: getting funds for cisterns or creating the secondary suite and doing the actual soundproofing

[2:53:52] Voice 2: and fire separation and access egress, or whatever it is that they need, creating a

[2:53:58] Voice 2: fund for that and it is hoped by some of these housing accelerator funds that have been applied

[2:54:03] Voice 2: for that can help actually fund some of those projects going forward so that one of the largest

[2:54:08] Voice 2: costs or barriers to getting affordable housing relying on private landowners is the cost this

[2:54:14] Voice 2: the return isn't there for them right it's too expensive for them to do it legally so they do it

[2:54:17] Voice 2: in an unpermitted way and therefore ever we've had that cycle forever but if we can help them

[2:54:24] Voice 2: finance that creation of the type of housing we want it could go a long ways and this type this

[2:54:29] Voice 2: is what this is meant to do this item about uh creating a technical services fund so just food

[2:54:34] Voice 2: for thought that that used to happen uh number 16 convene pre-development meetings to assess

[2:54:39] Voice 2: feasibility

[2:54:40] Voice 4: before you move on director sir i have a question

[2:54:42] Voice 2: uh

[2:54:44] Voice 4: through the chair um does this

[2:54:46] Voice 4: is this relatable at all to the provincial chain potential change in legislation that

[2:54:54] Voice 4: um i'm just reading back on page 26 which i hadn't seen this before mandating that secondary

[2:55:01] Voice 4: suites be allowed across the province and including forgivable loans for secondary

[2:55:04] Voice 4: suite renovations that secure five years of affordable housing rates

[2:55:09] Voice 4: um i've always been interested in understanding how the trust can leverage incentives uh you know

[2:55:18] Voice 4: for cisterns like you were talking about or forgivable loans through the province so how

[2:55:22] Voice 4: how does that work? Because I thought we couldn't hold funds for landowners to access that was only

[2:55:30] Voice 4: through RDN granting programs. So I'm probably mixing two things that are not similar but sound

[2:55:38] Voice 4: the same.

[2:55:38] Voice 2: No, no, you're right. And I honestly don't have the full answers for you. The technical

[2:55:44] Voice 2: services fund historically was used for staff to achieve trust-wide objectives. It generally was

[2:55:51] Voice 2: was not it's not a grant application for someone to do something so it would have to be the LTC

[2:55:55] Voice 2: or the RPC actually sponsoring that work to get the work done it's not giving money to a landowner

[2:56:02] Voice 2: to get the work done so a bit of a nuance there and that's my interpretation but I haven't dug

[2:56:06] Voice 2: into it too much otherwise you're right most of the best tools I've seen are when regional districts

[2:56:13] Voice 2: have a some sort of grant system whereby you buy something and they'll rebate you right if you want

[2:56:18] Voice 2: a low flush toilet they'll give you a rebate if you buy a electric bike they'll give you a rebate

[2:56:23] Voice 2: and so on and so forth so well

[2:56:26] Voice 4: this this leads to my second question i guess this is sort of on the

[2:56:29] Voice 4: policy end of things if our reading of the provincial um push to uh increase the amount

[2:56:38] Voice 4: of dwelling units is that we would be excluded and yet the province is potentially going to

[2:56:43] Voice 4: embark on a granting scheme of forgivable loans for secondary suite creation renovations which

[2:56:49] Voice 4: i've heard from many landowners it's like that's the barrier i'm not going to build a secondary

[2:56:53] Voice 4: suite for a long-term rental but if the government gave me a loan for those building materials i

[2:56:58] Voice 4: absolutely would so would we you know if we're going to be carved out of this legislation are

[2:57:07] Voice 4: we also carved out of the benefits and what are the implications of that like we can't incentive

[2:57:14] Voice 4: to how do we incentivize landowners to create housing when they're the only ones that

[2:57:18] Voice 4: have the pressure to do so and without money it's not going to happen sorry it's just a question

[2:57:24] Voice 4: directed at you it's just a broader it's yeah we're in a rock and a hard place here because

[2:57:31] Voice 4: we're so special anyway i'm gonna stop talking i

[2:57:38] Voice 2: don't know if i should comment on it now i'm

[2:57:40] Voice 2: actually curious what robert kojima might say about that he tends to have a keener mind with

[2:57:43] Voice 2: legislation um

[2:57:45] Voice 13: well i guess we don't we don't know yet that the trust area is going to be excluded

[2:57:51] Voice 13: from changes to legislation specifically around secondary suites um because it hasn't hasn't

[2:57:58] Voice 13: been announced yet publicly um and yeah i don't see any indication that like a granting program

[2:58:08] Voice 13: program or a loan program that the province is offering to you know install a secondary suite

[2:58:16] Voice 13: and to bring it up to code standards would be tied to any such legislation like the two there would

[2:58:24] Voice 13: be two different initiatives right there's a legislative change applying to local governments

[2:58:29] Voice 13: and what they can or cannot preclude in in their bylaws and then there's a program like an

[2:58:37] Voice 13: incentive grant program and local trust committees many local trust committees do permit secondary

[2:58:42] Voice 13: suites for example so presumably if someone has a secondary suite on a local trust area that

[2:58:51] Voice 13: permits secondary suites and there's some sort of incentive program by the province i don't see why

[2:58:56] Voice 13: they could apply if it becomes available

[2:59:02] Voice 7: i was just going to

[2:59:03] Trustee Patrick: chime in since we were talking more

[2:59:04] Trustee Patrick: about this item is i think there's a combination of things here one there's an advocacy role

[2:59:08] Trustee Patrick: to work with partners like you've mentioned the regional district a couple of times

[2:59:13] Trustee Patrick: and the province as well that there is there is just a need there are more expenses to develop

[2:59:18] Trustee Patrick: especially multi-family housing projects on islands just just is bc housing is learning that

[2:59:25] Trustee Patrick: here on salt spring big time so they are getting educated um which may be helpful

[2:59:33] Trustee Patrick: and i think that's a role we could play to help set set that up the second piece that's related

[2:59:38] Trustee Patrick: to this is timing of the need of the professional reports that we hear a lot from the not-for-profits

[2:59:44] Trustee Patrick: that we are loading up the the pre-development costs with a lot of these technical

[2:59:51] Trustee Patrick: studies that we require that that they're they're not opposed to the technical study

[2:59:56] Trustee Patrick: it's the timing of when to do the technical study in relation

[3:00:00] Trustee Patrick: to securing more funding or funding for the project of, you know,

[3:00:04] Trustee Patrick: are they at the risk phase or are they at the post-funding award stage?

[3:00:09] Trustee Patrick: And I think that's a critical element in

[3:00:12] Voice 7: this as well.

[3:00:18] Voice 7: So did you want to talk about

[3:00:20] Trustee Patrick: that last item?

[3:00:22] Voice 2: Sure. Sorry, you actually got me really to think about that.

[3:00:24] Voice 2: That statement was quite accurate of my interaction over the years with NGOs

[3:00:30] Voice 2: about timing and cost.

[3:00:31] Voice 2: We call them soft development costs, all the reports,

[3:00:34] Voice 2: It's the hard costs or the construction costs.

[3:00:36] Voice 2: Convene pre-development meetings to assess feasibility

[3:00:39] Voice 2: for all proposed multifamily rezonings.

[3:00:42] Voice 2: That should be happening.

[3:00:44] Voice 2: Our doors are always open.

[3:00:46] Voice 2: We're actually quite excited to work with NGOs

[3:00:49] Voice 2: or anybody creating affordable housing.

[3:00:51] Voice 2: And I know in Salt Spring,

[3:00:53] Voice 2: I was just on the island last week

[3:00:54] Voice 2: working with various groups in that matter.

[3:00:56] Voice 2: So that's ongoing and yeah, I'll stop there.

[3:01:02] Trustee Patrick: And any other comments? I do have David's comment. Number 14, he has in his notes is high priority, which is the communications material.

[3:01:12] Voice 8: Okay.

[3:01:14] Trustee Patrick: Any other comments on this session?

[3:01:16] Trustee Patrick: Yeah,

[3:01:16] Voice 4: can I ask a question on what was the feedback from, did we get a lot of response from community NGOs, Stephan, about this part two of the toolkit?

[3:01:28] Voice 4: Great

[3:01:28] Voice 2: question. I don't know. I've seen a few, but I've just made sure that they were filed. I haven't really read them because I wasn't reporting back to you about them yet. So I encourage you to go out, shake your trees if you haven't already and try to get some more feedback. More is better. I think Trustee Allen was the first to get his group to respond. So kudos to Trustee Allen.

[3:01:51] Voice 7: Yeah.

[3:01:57] Voice 7: Okay.

[3:01:57] Voice 7: Okay. I'll move on.

[3:01:58] Voice 7: Carry on.

[3:01:58] Voice 7: Yeah.

[3:01:59] Voice 2: Support housing affordability through housing agreements and land acquisition.

[3:02:04] Voice 2: So there's four here. Adopt revised housing agreement template for multifamily developments.

[3:02:08] Voice 2: Again, that's future action. That's already contemplated in part two of the toolkit action,

[3:02:13] Voice 2: which Trustee Campbell says is number one priority. I love it. Part two.

[3:02:18] Voice 2: 18, coordinate with regional districts to develop a simple program to administer housing agreements.

[3:02:25] Voice 2: future action

[3:02:26] Voice 2: explore how Islands Trust could hold land

[3:02:28] Voice 2: for housing in a manner consistent with its

[3:02:30] Voice 2: mandate

[3:02:32] Voice 2: again future action and encourage LTCs

[3:02:34] Voice 2: to develop policies that will encourage and

[3:02:36] Voice 2: facilitate land donation

[3:02:38] Voice 2: this is already in the toolkit

[3:02:40] Voice 2: option I'm just I'm not even going to

[3:02:45] Voice 2: comment I'm going to listen

[3:02:47] Trustee Patrick: I have I know

[3:02:50] Trustee Patrick: David Graham had 17 and 18 as

[3:02:52] Trustee Patrick: high priority

[3:02:54] Trustee Patrick: trustee Bolin

[3:02:55] Trustee Patrick: um

[3:02:57] Voice 12: number 20 um you know there is that whole tax incentive program from the island's trust

[3:03:06] Voice 12: conservancy could that material that mechanism those communications be reused

[3:03:15] Voice 12: to encourage donation of land for this purpose instead i mean we have you know i assume we have

[3:03:25] Voice 12: you know communication material we have sign here whatever just thinking that if you paralleled it

[3:03:31] Voice 12: with something similar then uh it would be a lot easier to put it out there well

[3:03:40] Voice 2: i think there's

[3:03:41] Voice 2: the naptep program which is a natural areas uh protection tax exemption program something like

[3:03:47] Voice 2: that i think

[3:03:48] Voice 12: about the covenanting or donation of land i mean i don't know enough about it really

[3:03:54] Voice 12: as you can probably guess by now. But I'm just thinking there is a process whereby people can

[3:04:00] Voice 12: donate, I believe, land or covenant it. And I wonder if the same process could be used,

[3:04:08] Voice 12: but just for a different purpose.

[3:04:13] Voice 2: I think it's something we'd have to explore. But certainly

[3:04:15] Voice 2: within the legal authority of Trust Council to hold lands, I believe, and maybe Robert,

[3:04:20] Voice 2: too bad David Marder's not here. I believe that's an authority that Trust Council could defer to a

[3:04:25] Voice 2: local trust committee so i'd have to double check my own trust act but i believe that's in there

[3:04:30] Voice 2: that have to be done by bylaw um and of course regional districts hold land trust council i think

[3:04:36] Voice 2: holds one piece of land that i recall some sort of school maybe on denman something like that and of

[3:04:41] Voice 2: course the conservancy owns some land but mostly they have things so i do think there's parallels

[3:04:45] Voice 2: there but i think as soon as you start exploring um trust owning land in any capacity i think that'd

[3:04:50] Voice 2: be a quite a large program to dive into and explore and look at all the options i think it'd

[3:04:56] Voice 2: be it'd be a big program certainly worthy if this is where uh rpc wants to recommend trust council

[3:05:02] Voice 2: to go i

[3:05:04] Voice 13: just uh distinguish between 19 on this list and 20. so action 19 is about you know um

[3:05:13] Voice 13: uh trust council or local trust committees even holding land and that's this like stefan said

[3:05:19] Voice 13: there's there's issues potentially with that and number 20 is more about providing opportunities

[3:05:26] Voice 13: through rezoning applications or other mechanisms where landowners can donate land to a non-profit

[3:05:35] Voice 13: group for example that already exists that wants to develop land so it's the local trust committee

[3:05:42] Voice 13: committee ensuring its policies and regulations would support um uh that a mechanism like that

[3:05:50] Voice 13: an example is what main island local trust committees look potentially looking at is

[3:05:55] Voice 13: a mechanism to allow or encourage or facilitate landowners to create an additional lot for

[3:06:03] Voice 13: for donation to a group like Habitat for Humanity.

[3:06:13] Voice 7: Here's the chair.

[3:06:14] Voice 7: Yes.

[3:06:15] Trustee Allen: Me again.

[3:06:16] Trustee Allen: Yeah, well, on Hornby, we just did that.

[3:06:19] Trustee Allen: Well, not just did that.

[3:06:20] Trustee Allen: It was a long time ago.

[3:06:21] Trustee Allen: It's been a long and whiny road with Beulah Creek.

[3:06:23] Trustee Allen: That land was donated by the neighboring property.

[3:06:28] Trustee Allen: There's been little issues with,

[3:06:30] Trustee Allen: he wanted it to be more ownership, not rental,

[3:06:33] Trustee Allen: and it proved to be very cumbersome

[3:06:34] Trustee Allen: in terms of getting funding and whatnot.

[3:06:38] Trustee Allen: And, but I do know like San Juan Island,

[3:06:40] Trustee Allen: I don't know they must have some really good tax rebate or something because they're constantly

[3:06:44] Trustee Allen: having land donated for housing all the time if you look at their housing groups on all their

[3:06:50] Trustee Allen: islands and I just wonder if we could get some better incentive in terms of tax lower tax but

[3:06:56] Trustee Allen: I guess that's a provincial thing so.

[3:06:58] Trustee Patrick: The San Juan counties also get a percentage of the real

[3:07:01] Trustee Patrick: estate transfer tax.

[3:07:03] Voice 7: Ah okay. Money makes a difference. Well different form of government

[3:07:12] Voice 7: makes a difference too well

[3:07:14] Trustee Patrick: different laws yeah all

[3:07:17] Trustee Patrick: right any other comments on that piece there

[3:07:20] Trustee Patrick: keep going stephan we gotta

[3:07:24] Voice 2: get through these

[3:07:25] Trustee Patrick: business cases will be far more exciting

[3:07:27] Trustee Patrick: oh

[3:07:27] Voice 2: don't forget we have governance to talk about okay

[3:07:29] Voice 2: so we have um the last three uh which are

[3:07:33] Voice 2: identified as advocacy and partnerships first one develop partnerships to improve existing and

[3:07:38] Voice 2: delivery

[3:07:39] Voice 1: and

[3:07:41] Voice 2: delivered new housing no established regional interagency cooperation such as round

[3:07:45] Voice 2: tables to coordinate servicing and zoning requirements and remove barriers in support

[3:07:49] Voice 2: of the development of housing future action although there's some ongoing with that to

[3:07:54] Voice 2: some degree so there's a southern gulf islands round table not to mention on i know in salt

[3:07:58] Voice 2: spring there's some some advocacy going on and some coordination amongst groups number 22 work

[3:08:03] Voice 2: with regional districts to facilitate the development and implementation of affordable

[3:08:07] Voice 2: affordable housing strategies for the islands

[3:08:09] Voice 1: and

[3:08:10] Voice 2: again it's mentioning CRD they're quite active on

[3:08:12] Voice 2: that but these are both mentioned as future because if you really want to go there we'd

[3:08:17] Voice 2: have to dedicate resources to it as opposed to kind of the

[3:08:19] Voice 7: ad hoc nature that's currently happening

[3:08:22] Voice 7: seeing a lot of comments I think it's I mean

[3:08:30] Trustee Patrick: it's interesting when the southern Gulf Islands and

[3:08:33] Trustee Patrick: Salt Spring be clear that it's both because it's in the CRD is a huge percentage of the people that

[3:08:40] Trustee Patrick: that live in the trust area.

[3:08:43] Trustee Patrick: And we seem to have somewhat of a willing partner

[3:08:45] Trustee Patrick: that wants to work on things.

[3:08:47] Trustee Patrick: So it is

[3:08:50] Trustee Patrick: a big region.

[3:08:53] Voice 7: Trustee Allen.

[3:08:54] Voice 7: Yeah, it

[3:08:56] Trustee Allen: was to be not lunch I had.

[3:08:59] Trustee Allen: So yeah, I had a meeting with High Seek

[3:09:02] Trustee Allen: or Economic Enhancement Group

[3:09:05] Trustee Allen: and the consultant they hired

[3:09:08] Trustee Allen: regarding looking at affordable housing.

[3:09:10] Trustee Allen: And it was really very encouraging.

[3:09:13] Trustee Allen: and we're looking at changing we've had an issue with wrong wording in our public use zone in terms

[3:09:19] Trustee Allen: of community housing but they've managed they're looking at the green infrastructure funds through

[3:09:24] Trustee Allen: the province as well as the complete communities through the regional district and then of course

[3:09:30] Trustee Allen: the letter of support from us as islands trust and they're looking both crown land and private

[3:09:36] Trustee Allen: parcel at this particular time on one b but there is uh it's been it's been good you know we are

[3:09:42] Trustee Allen: we're getting support but it does it does help having a consultant in

[3:09:47] Voice 7: the background on that one

[3:09:48] Voice 7: for sure all right

[3:09:59] Voice 8: i'll

[3:09:59] Voice 2: continue advocate for policy changes that will address housing challenges

[3:10:03] Voice 2: on the island so encourage island health here we're talking about septic guidance for unplumbed

[3:10:09] Voice 2: sewage disposal such as composting toilets and alternative water solutions such as gray water

[3:10:15] Voice 2: recycling and rainwater catchment i think i've heard this group mention such things many times

[3:10:19] Voice 2: advocate for changes at the provincial and regional level to support tiny homes on wheels

[3:10:25] Voice 2: i can see one particular trustee on this screen call who might be really interested in that

[3:10:29] Voice 2: and number 25 enable improvement districts to access infrastructure grants and if you didn't

[3:10:35] Voice 2: know being in a rural area most the service provisions such as water communities community

[3:10:42] Voice 2: water community sewer fire those are improvement districts and they don't have access to grants

[3:10:49] Voice 2: France which is the most absurd thing in my mind but that was you know it's speculated a policy

[3:10:54] Voice 2: it's only a policy it's not an act but it's a policy of the provincial government and the

[3:10:58] Voice 2: speculation is that trying to force everybody to become a municipality so don't give them funding

[3:11:03] Voice 2: force them to become a municipality and fund themselves but I am speculating and there you go

[3:11:09] Voice 1: so that's 23 through 25.

[3:11:13] Voice 7: Question? Rossella.

[3:11:15] Voice 4: Oh yep um what can anyone remember who's been here

[3:11:19] Voice 4: in the last two or three terms or robert what's the latest conversation with island health on um

[3:11:27] Voice 4: unplumbed sewage disposal like have we ever advocated for this uh has this ever been a

[3:11:33] Voice 4: conversation before for

[3:11:38] Voice 13: the chair it's there's been conversations um about it but it's never

[3:11:43] Voice 13: been an advocacy initiative like a fully supported trust-wide advocacy initiative the position

[3:11:49] Voice 13: of island health or their interpretation I guess of their health regulations is that something like

[3:11:56] Voice 13: a composting toilet's fine but you have to have a backup septic field it kind of defeats the savings

[3:12:04] Voice 13: would come actually

[3:12:06] Voice 4: it's it's about water it's anyway

[3:12:09] Trustee Patrick: okay well um I do have um trustee Graham

[3:12:16] Trustee Patrick: Pam, that is what we just talked about, a priority for him.

[3:12:20] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Bolin.

[3:12:23] Voice 12: We did have a presentation from Gord Baird,

[3:12:27] Voice 12: and he is director of the CRD Water Board.

[3:12:34] Voice 12: So he is very active on water collection and quite an expert.

[3:12:39] Voice 12: But he's also an expert on composting toilets,

[3:12:42] Voice 12: And he certainly has opinions about how regulations should accommodate, you know, those kind of initiatives.

[3:12:54] Voice 12: So it might be worth, I did suggest it as one of the webinar series on stewardship, but particularly like his take on where the regulations are creating blocks to kind of innovative use of those kinds of things.

[3:13:11] Voice 12: he's very engaging and i really recommend him so um apparently he's written the definitive book

[3:13:18] Voice 12: on composting toilets it's

[3:13:21] Voice 4: on my bedside table and i read it

[3:13:23] Voice 4: almost weekly i refer to it his

[3:13:26] Voice 4: the science that he uses is not island health is not using the science let's just put it that way

[3:13:32] Voice 4: if you're composting your humanure properly it is completely safe and there's there's a lot of data

[3:13:39] Voice 4: to back it up and they're not looking at that so i

[3:13:42] Voice 12: totally agree with you maria yeah maybe we could

[3:13:45] Voice 12: kind of align ourselves with gourd and support him and use him as an advocate because he is

[3:13:54] Voice 12: such an expert like really sort of just you know and he's a director at highlands

[3:13:59] Voice 4: he's

[3:14:00] Voice 12: like a

[3:14:01] Voice 4: counselor at highlands right that's it yeah

[3:14:03] Voice 12: so he's got quite a position but maybe

[3:14:06] Voice 12: he could become a champion for our cause to explain and consider because he was talking

[3:14:13] Voice 12: about even in terms of regulation around water and water collection and potable water non-potable and

[3:14:19] Voice 12: the use of it for multi-housing and he was talking I think about talking at UBCM to try and

[3:14:27] Voice 12: influence people so um i i would really love him to become our you know our go-to person to

[3:14:37] Voice 12: represent us in some of these issues yeah

[3:14:40] Trustee Patrick: the other issue that should probably be added under

[3:14:43] Trustee Patrick: this that he talks about um uh director sarmac is the province right now if you have more than

[3:14:50] Trustee Patrick: and two connections, you trigger an operating permit

[3:14:53] Trustee Patrick: under for the water, whatever the Potable Water Act is.

[3:14:59] Trustee Patrick: And he's saying in Washington State, they use three.

[3:15:05] Trustee Patrick: So if you have a secondary suite on your well,

[3:15:08] Trustee Patrick: you trigger an operating permit,

[3:15:10] Trustee Patrick: whereas that should just be removed so it goes higher.

[3:15:16] Trustee Patrick: So if you have three or more connections.

[3:15:20] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Allen, is that your hand up?

[3:15:22] Trustee Allen: Yes. Oh, you don't believe me. Do you actually see my hand?

[3:15:26] Trustee Patrick: I do if I look to a separate list. I

[3:15:28] Trustee Allen: just can't see you.

[3:15:30] Trustee Allen: No, I just want to say we're right. No, you don't need to see me.

[3:15:33] Trustee Allen: We're right in the middle of an initiative with the regional district and our repairs association.

[3:15:39] Trustee Allen: And they're looking at a composting toilet residuals management program.

[3:15:45] Trustee Allen: So I can provide a lot of background on that in terms of where we're heading.

[3:15:48] Trustee Allen: And also, we have a great local guy, Ed Heppner, who's been spearheading this, and he's a great resource for giving a talk at Future Trust Council or even a regional planning meeting or something.

[3:16:02] Trustee Allen: So I was glad he sent you all that information regarding where we're at on that one.

[3:16:09] Trustee Patrick: Well, thank you.

[3:16:10] Trustee Patrick: In relationship to the tiny homes, Trustee Elliott is not the only one that's been active on this.

[3:16:16] Trustee Patrick: I think there's lots of people advocating for the tiny homes on wheels. But one of the things that other municipalities are doing is they're continuing their advocacy for the province to develop the building code to allow them.

[3:16:29] Trustee Patrick: But they're moving ahead with siting and use on CSA stamped units so that at least they're getting the structure in place to where, you know, a tiny home could go within their zoning bylaws while they continue their advocacy.

[3:16:46] Trustee Patrick: So something to consider.

[3:16:50] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Bolin.

[3:16:51] Voice 12: Just quickly.

[3:16:52] Voice 12: So listening to Trustee Allen and Trustee Elliott, you know, they're putting these webinar series together.

[3:16:59] Voice 12: and or a mini small workshop i was just thinking that there are quite a few people who have a level

[3:17:08] Voice 12: of expertise or experience you know there are things going on that they could say like spend

[3:17:13] Voice 12: 10 minutes on you know here's the status this is what we're trying to do this is our approach i

[3:17:19] Voice 12: think it would be really helpful to build a little list of those and put together an hour an hour and

[3:17:24] Voice 12: and a half of sharing um uh you know topics and sharing information on different topics

[3:17:31] Voice 12: because it sounds like we have quite a lot of expertise and things going on that aren't

[3:17:37] Voice 12: necessarily formally part of our you know islands trust they're kind of local level but they could

[3:17:45] Voice 12: be shared would be

[3:17:46] Trustee Patrick: great i was gonna say trustee boland that's something we as a committee could

[3:17:50] Trustee Patrick: could decide later if we have time is to make that suggestion to the folks that are asking for

[3:17:55] Trustee Patrick: ideas for stewardship um we could we can certainly make a recommendation as a committee if we think

[3:18:00] Trustee Patrick: that's appropriate okay let's wrap up this

[3:18:03] Voice 7: section here i

[3:18:09] Voice 1: might just throw it out there while we

[3:18:11] Voice 2: segue you

[3:18:11] Voice 2: know these people with human who are an experts at those types of things maybe they're

[3:18:16] Voice 2: worthy of a stewardship award maybe you start thinking that way you can nominate that and

[3:18:19] Voice 2: bring attention to these things but i'll move on to the last thing advocate advocate for funding

[3:18:26] Voice 2: to support housing needs on the islands and of course uh advocate to the provincial government

[3:18:31] Voice 2: and encourage bc housing and chamc and advocate for provincial funding to help address housing need

[3:18:37] Voice 2: oh how's that different from the other one to fund growth limits assessments

[3:18:41] Voice 2: and the other one is to address housing needs in the islands to build housing um so there you go

[3:18:47] Voice 2: Oh, sorry. I think I'm getting tired. I just flew over those.

[3:18:51] Voice 2: We're

[3:18:52] Trustee Patrick: wearing you out.

[3:18:53] Voice 2: I got lots of great notes.

[3:18:55] Voice 2: An

[3:18:56] Trustee Patrick: interesting advocacy approach that we should, I don't know,

[3:18:59] Trustee Patrick: has there been any local trust committee in the entire trust area that's been

[3:19:04] Trustee Patrick: successful with CMHC funding or even not

[3:19:09] Trustee Patrick: even a local trust committee,

[3:19:10] Trustee Patrick: even projects or, or initiatives I've noted,

[3:19:14] Trustee Patrick: at least here on Salt Spring has been a huge, you know, we've,

[3:19:16] Trustee Patrick: we've not been successful with CMHC funding, you know, the housing accelerator program will be

[3:19:22] Trustee Patrick: interesting to see does any local trust committee succeed in getting funding. If we don't, we might

[3:19:27] Trustee Patrick: want to consider an advocacy program. I think those folks in Ottawa need some education on

[3:19:33] Trustee Patrick: what the trust area is and our challenges and our housing because, you know, we just don't fit all

[3:19:38] Trustee Patrick: the time and what they they're just not aware who we are and why our challenges are what we are and

[3:19:43] Trustee Patrick: why we keep asking for money anyway trustee elliott so

[3:19:48] Voice 4: this last point the mrdt um tax is

[3:19:52] Voice 4: the most interesting to me and i think it's the point where we can actually take action now and so

[3:20:00] Voice 4: the gabriella ltc um i've had this conversation with our rdn director vanessa craig um the mrdt

[3:20:08] Voice 4: is collected for the north part of the rdn through an agreement with um parksville qualicum tourism

[3:20:14] Voice 4: Beach Association no MRDT is collected for our area or three others but she indicated the approach

[3:20:23] Voice 4: that would be most likely to benefit Gabriela and other Gulf Islands I think if you can explore this

[3:20:29] Voice 4: is if the Gabriela Housing Society or an NGO was the applicant and that the funds collected

[3:20:37] Voice 4: through the tour or the hotel tax would be dispersed to this housing society for

[3:20:44] Voice 4: affordable housing initiatives and so there's been a lot of press lately about Cortez Island

[3:20:49] Voice 4: and I think the legislation just recently changed the Cortez model changed the legislation so it

[3:20:55] Voice 4: could be used entirely for housing which allows an affordable housing non-profit to be able to

[3:21:01] Voice 4: apply and before that this was typically used for tourism initiatives so I think we're in a

[3:21:06] Voice 4: changing landscape right now the mrdt is a really when i was at the housing summit um sunshine coast

[3:21:16] Voice 4: um they have a sort of a affordable housing coalition and a full-time person is staffed

[3:21:24] Voice 4: through the collection of the mrdts that was the first time i'd heard about this and i've

[3:21:28] Voice 4: been following up with it so i think this tax collected from your legally operating bnbs your

[3:21:35] Voice 4: um resorts whatever you have um can be funneled directly to housing societies now so i think

[3:21:43] Voice 4: this should move to the top of the list because it's an immediate um

[3:21:47] Voice 7: potential win right any other

[3:21:54] Voice 7: comments oops i said trustee allen

[3:21:56] Trustee Allen: me again um well we actually are doing that right now we've

[3:21:59] Trustee Allen: we are we have that tax in place through high seek and um it's looking at yeah they're just

[3:22:05] Trustee Allen: starting to the funds are just starting to be collected and uh it's not all in housing it's uh

[3:22:10] Trustee Allen: so i'm having a conversation with that but it's definitely looking at worker housing etc so it's

[3:22:17] Voice 7: glad to share you more on that yeah thanks and i

[3:22:25] Trustee Patrick: do do know that david graham mentioned that the

[3:22:29] Trustee Patrick: number 27 as a high priority all right are there any other input and i noticed you you did you

[3:22:40] Trustee Patrick: You were hoping, do we need to give you a motion because you had one at the front of the package or what direction do you need further?

[3:22:49] Trustee Patrick: You've got a wallowing a bit of feedback from this group as usual.

[3:22:56] Voice 2: Yeah, that's a good question.

[3:22:59] Voice 2: So, yeah, I have like extensive notes.

[3:23:05] Voice 2: That's a good question.

[3:23:06] Voice 2: I mean, in a perfect world, I get a resolution and it's all really easy to do.

[3:23:10] Voice 2: do. But I would challenge anybody to be able to go backwards in time and make that all

[3:23:13] Voice 2: into a motion. So for brevity, I would say amend the draft housing strategy as discussed.

[3:23:23] Voice 2: And I'll compare my notes to others notes and to whatever Robert Barlow has managed

[3:23:29] Voice 2: to capture. He's usually quite by the book and make sure that we're capturing minutes,

[3:23:33] Voice 2: not notes. But I think he might surprise me this time. And so I think that's about as

[3:23:40] Voice 2: best as we can do is that you make a motion to amend the draft housing strategy as discussed

[3:23:45] Voice 2: and of course you'll get it back to in uh in november and you'll be able to assess the changes

[3:23:50] Voice 2: as discussed do

[3:23:52] Trustee Patrick: you want that included in the resolution that would be that you bring a pack

[3:23:55] Trustee Patrick: or is that implied yeah

[3:23:57] Voice 2: that's the second bullet that i have there a request staff to return the

[3:24:00] Voice 2: revised housing strategy and housing options toolkit so you notice now i put the two together

[3:24:04] Voice 2: again not just the strategy but also the options toolkit uh to the next regular business meeting

[3:24:09] Voice 2: of course if feasible but and that just gives us clear direction to prioritize work on that

[3:24:13] Voice 2: all

[3:24:15] Voice 7: right who would like to attempt this resolution trustee bolin you're going to attempt it

[3:24:27] Voice 7: i

[3:24:28] Voice 12: am considering i can hardly read what's on the screen i have to go to my own version

[3:24:32] Voice 12: so i move that regional planning committee requests staff to amend the draft housing strategy

[3:24:41] Voice 12: strategy per, I don't know how to describe what you said, Stefan, as discussed, and request staff

[3:24:51] Voice 12: to return the revised housing strategy and housing options toolkit to the next regular business

[3:24:57] Voice 12: meeting.

[3:24:59] Trustee Patrick: All right, seconded by Trustee Elliott. Any discussion? If not, I'll call the vote. All

[3:25:07] Trustee Patrick: all those in favor you can raise your electronic hand that would be appreciated i think i'm seeing

[3:25:16] Trustee Patrick: everybody's hands up so you can take your hands down and that is carried and

[3:25:22] Voice 12: should i say thank

[3:25:23] Voice 12: you stephan and co because this is a huge piece of work i mean i'm exhausted just reading it

[3:25:31] Voice 12: remind me yeah yeah second that yeah and i and trying to even keep track of where you are in it

[3:25:38] Voice 12: and what you're trying to communicate to it very impressive well i can

[3:25:43] Voice 2: take none of the credit

[3:25:44] Voice 2: that's all uh you know really planner chadwick who led the charge and then she's pulled in all

[3:25:49] Voice 2: her resources and i can't even describe how she does that she's amazing and we're just holding

[3:25:54] Voice 2: on to her reins so you know so you know kudos to the team all

[3:26:00] Trustee Patrick: right thank you very much and i'm

[3:26:02] Trustee Patrick: i'm going to keep us moving because we still have lots to do it's 1 30 and we're going to move on to

[3:26:08] Trustee Patrick: the far more exciting topic of money, the business cases.

[3:26:12] Trustee Patrick: So who's going to present that?

[3:26:15] Voice 1: Oh, I thought I was.

[3:26:18] Voice 1: I

[3:26:18] Voice 2: am. Sorry, Madam Chair. I'm not sure if I'm...

[3:26:20] Voice 2: There we are.

[3:26:21] Voice 2: You can see my screen, I assume.

[3:26:23] Voice 2: I lost it there for a sec.

[3:26:24] Voice 2: Okay, so I'll try to be brief,

[3:26:27] Voice 2: although I know there's a lot of interest.

[3:26:28] Voice 2: So the RPC asked in April for us to come back to this meeting

[3:26:33] Voice 2: with four business cases, complete eelgrass mapping,

[3:26:38] Voice 2: or pardon me, I'll put it here, complete eelgrass mapping, implement the freshwater sustainability

[3:26:42] Voice 2: strategy, update housing needs assessments, and advance development and implementation of an

[3:26:48] Voice 2: Islands Trust housing strategy and toolkit. You have three of those. You do not have the

[3:26:53] Voice 2: freshwater sustainability strategy business case. One was not submitted on time.

[3:26:59] Voice 2: So each one is attached. I've sort of tried to summarize it in the report so it's up front for

[3:27:05] Voice 2: you before having to dig into the report the appendices and i'm going to just briefly speak

[3:27:11] Voice 2: to the key points of that so the mapping eelgrass is identified very specifically as an action in

[3:27:18] Voice 2: the islands trust strategic plan mapping eelgrass and kelp beds are noticed as as a specific action

[3:27:24] Voice 2: This mapping was done last year, or 2022, where are we, 2022, and it was presented,

[3:27:34] Voice 2: but unfortunately it found that over 40% of the data was unusable.

[3:27:40] Voice 2: And so then we presented that to this group, the RPC, and asked to bring a business case

[3:27:47] Voice 2: for it to complete or to get a more accurate assessment of the mapping.

[3:27:52] Voice 2: In terms of background, you know, I'm aware of some mapping done back in the 80s.

[3:27:58] Voice 2: I'm not sure we have access to it.

[3:27:59] Voice 2: Certainly mapping was done in 2011 or 2012 to 2014.

[3:28:04] Voice 2: And this was to update that mapping and to compare it.

[3:28:07] Voice 2: There are multiple sources of this data, but only in very specific, like nothing knits it all together.

[3:28:13] Voice 2: And this is what it was supposed to do, is knit it all together for use.

[3:28:16] Voice 2: use and this data is extraordinarily useful eelgrass in terms of why it's a strategic priority

[3:28:22] Voice 2: i won't wax poetic about it but suffice to say that's probably the most important exchange area

[3:28:26] Voice 2: for uh where the shore foreshore meets the marine area so went out i've tried to find what

[3:28:32] Voice 2: information i could about previous mapping and found what information i could get about current

[3:28:36] Voice 2: mapping hence you have an estimate of about a hundred thousand dollars to get the mapping done

[3:28:40] Voice 2: done using a methodology which resolved the issue of unusable data but found that again I recognize

[3:28:47] Voice 2: the the current fiscal period that we're in that probably wouldn't be palatable certainly seemed

[3:28:52] Voice 2: like a lot of money to get to verify information that should be incorrect the first time which is

[3:28:57] Voice 2: frustrating and I happen to know that I'm close with number of I'm not close but I'm aware of a

[3:29:04] Voice 2: lot of people and I volunteered with people to do some mapping and cleanup of shorelines and that

[3:29:09] Voice 2: kind of thing removing boats and things out of the shoreline i just i clean up the shoreline quite a

[3:29:14] Voice 2: bit and so asked hey what about drones how do you do current mapping and drones is the way things

[3:29:21] Voice 2: are done these days right they're following the marine mammal monitoring is done that way now i

[3:29:25] Voice 2: believe uh trustee boland i think they fire from your island over to other islands watching how the

[3:29:30] Voice 2: marine how people are being interacting with the marine mammals and they've also used it i looked

[3:29:37] Voice 2: at some recent demonstrations i saw some some data that was produced looking at the derelict vessels

[3:29:44] Voice 2: and realizing that they have they can just simply put a nice filter on on the mapping and they can

[3:29:49] Voice 2: be actually cognizant of the angle of the sun unlike a helicopter pilot i don't know that's kind

[3:29:54] Voice 2: of what the central issue was with the last mapping and anyways but i don't know have a cost

[3:30:00] Voice 2: I don't know how much that stuff costs.

[3:30:01] Voice 2: I was getting all kinds of funky numbers, which I couldn't trust.

[3:30:03] Voice 2: So I recommended putting a placeholder here for $100,000 for the eelgrass mapping based

[3:30:09] Voice 2: on a proven methodology, which has been done before and it would still work today.

[3:30:15] Voice 2: But I recommended that we put a placeholder there and then you request that I go out and

[3:30:20] Voice 2: do a request for information, which is my way of reaching out to the drone operators

[3:30:26] Voice 2: operators of BC and say, if you tell me how you would accomplish this goal, and then once we get

[3:30:33] Voice 2: the methodology down right, then I could do a request for a proposal to see, bring the cost

[3:30:37] Voice 2: down. My hunch is just based on the amount of time it takes to put things in a boat and drag it around

[3:30:42] Voice 2: in the water versus get onto an island and zoom a little drone around. It's the main cost is,

[3:30:49] Voice 2: you know, they say boots on the ground, right? It's having people in the field doing the work,

[3:30:54] Voice 2: reduced number of amount of days in the field should be reduced cost but i can't guarantee

[3:30:58] Voice 2: that so anyhow that's what mapping eelgrass is i could speak i i think i should pause there so you

[3:31:04] Voice 2: can talk about eelgrass before i go to the other two thank

[3:31:07] Trustee Patrick: you i think that would be appropriate

[3:31:08] Trustee Patrick: to see trustee elliott

[3:31:09] Voice 7: sound raised oh you're muted you're still muted trustee elliott

[3:31:20] Voice 7: you good

[3:31:21] Voice 4: i'm here you can hear me trustee allen go oh

[3:31:25] Trustee Patrick: sorry the name fell

[3:31:28] Trustee Patrick: off the list again

[3:31:29] Trustee Patrick: hello thank

[3:31:30] Trustee Allen: you so much trustee elliott okay there i just looked at her longingly okay um

[3:31:36] Voice 8: my

[3:31:36] Trustee Allen: concern is drones are not very nice they disturb birds and seabirds and whatnot and um

[3:31:45] Trustee Allen: So, and I know we've had issues with some tourists bringing drones and zooming along

[3:31:50] Trustee Allen: above the neighborhoods and whatnot. They're really loud, they're really obnoxious. So,

[3:31:54] Trustee Allen: I do have concerns with using drones. Maybe it's the time of year, but yeah, that's my...

[3:32:01] Trustee Allen: Maybe I'm channeling chair fast. Yes, I am. Or sorry, trusty fast. But yes, I'm concerned about

[3:32:06] Trustee Allen: seabirds and the drones and has that ever been done, drone studies, you know, in that kind of

[3:32:13] Trustee Allen: environment without

[3:32:15] Voice 7: disturbing the habitat well good question i see trust well we'll keep

[3:32:23] Voice 7: conversing here

[3:32:24] Voice 4: trustee elliott um if in your research um director cermak you go in the

[3:32:31] Voice 4: direction of liaising with existing groups um synonymic marine division is one that is already

[3:32:39] Voice 4: doing work on mapping eelgrass in their territories and to create a baseline inventory

[3:32:46] Voice 4: of species um they use i think both drones and remote operated robot basically robots underwater

[3:32:54] Voice 4: and they have the they've been building their marine division i think for the last eight to

[3:32:59] Voice 4: ten years and so they've got the technical um expertise and the boots on the ground as you say

[3:33:06] Voice 4: so working with groups that are already collecting the data i'm not sure what you know whether we'd

[3:33:12] Voice 4: need to have an information sharing agreement definitely that would be we're not even in that

[3:33:17] Voice 4: conversation yet but um that could be an opportunity for working collaboratively with

[3:33:22] Voice 4: um first nations that are already undertaking the

[3:33:25] Voice 7: work all right trustee yeah um

[3:33:31] Trustee Luckham: so on the drone

[3:33:33] Trustee Luckham: topic um stefan you might want to check the sailor sea conference um in washington a few

[3:33:42] Trustee Luckham: couple of years ago um where they were doing exactly what you're talking about with drones

[3:33:49] Trustee Luckham: low altitude flying with filters on cameras and we're we're doing uh that was actually all part

[3:33:57] Trustee Luckham: and parcel of salvaging creosote logs and stuff but they were able to see through the water into

[3:34:03] Trustee Luckham: the shallows where the eelgrass is and so there's a whole body of professional work there that you

[3:34:09] Trustee Luckham: you could probably tap into by finding out who did those presentations, and that's through the

[3:34:15] Trustee Luckham: University of Washington. And then, of course, just on Trustee Allen's remarks there, there are

[3:34:22] Trustee Luckham: professional drone operators that do scientific work that make a single pass along an area, a

[3:34:28] Trustee Luckham: beach, we'll say, and you would hardly know it was there, compared to a tourist, unprofessional

[3:34:36] Trustee Luckham: operator that is buzzing around looking at sunbathers. And it's just a totally different

[3:34:41] Trustee Luckham: thing. So I think we certainly need to be concerned about that. But there's really a difference

[3:34:46] Trustee Luckham: between a professional operator and a professional machine compared to an amateur and an amateurish

[3:34:52] Trustee Luckham: home consumer machine. There you go.

[3:34:55] Trustee Patrick: Thank you. Before I call on Trustee Boland, I wanted to read

[3:34:58] Trustee Patrick: uh uh trustee graham's notes on this topic uh he said because because of the uh the the 41

[3:35:07] Trustee Patrick: of low confidence polygons he said his suggestion would be to require any proposed development

[3:35:12] Trustee Patrick: within these polygons to require eelgrass study prior to consideration therefore avoiding study

[3:35:19] Trustee Patrick: by the trust right

[3:35:21] Voice 7: uh trustee bolin oh now you're

[3:35:26] Voice 7: muted just

[3:35:28] Voice 5: forthwick was before me oh sorry

[3:35:31] Voice 5: god

[3:35:32] Trustee Patrick: i'll use too many screens here

[3:35:34] Voice 7: all right trustee borthwick yeah

[3:35:39] Voice 15: um i mean i've definitely

[3:35:41] Voice 15: i've been approached by a couple of of people in in advance of this meeting uh concerned about the

[3:35:49] Voice 15: the cost with this and um i mean i i think um trustee graham's comments are are are a good

[3:35:56] Voice 15: thing i i'm like i want us to be able to do uh this sort of research i've been trying to find

[3:36:03] Voice 15: out somebody was saying that they thought that the province was already doing this to some degree

[3:36:06] Voice 15: i haven't been able to find um specific examples of them doing it i did see that the

[3:36:12] Voice 15: have been doing some work and um uh i didn't make a good note there was somebody else who

[3:36:20] Voice 15: was doing a bunch of this kind of work um and i on the back of the work that i've seen with

[3:36:26] Voice 15: the band sound slammer channel eco forum um there's a lot of uh um like the dfo is doing

[3:36:35] Voice 15: some very extensive mapping across the whole area across all of bc's waters um on fish populations

[3:36:46] Voice 15: and it's obviously not not the same thing but um i wonder if it's not worth um just seeing if

[3:36:54] Voice 15: there's any double work that's happening uh or if there are other other um efforts that we can

[3:36:59] Voice 15: partner with um to to yeah to to to reduce some cost here um because i do and i i again i i think

[3:37:10] Voice 15: it's really important to do this kind of work i also recognize that we're not always the best

[3:37:15] Voice 15: resource to to um do those things so i'm just i'm really conscious of that cost i i think it's good

[3:37:23] Voice 15: to know where stuff is and i think i want to do the environmental stuff but also we're um yeah

[3:37:29] Voice 15: Yeah. Anyways, I think everybody knows where I'm going.

[3:37:31] Voice 7: Thank you. Trustee Boland.

[3:37:36] Voice 12: Yeah. I don't believe that we can afford to do this.

[3:37:41] Voice 12: I think the amount of money and in fact, the scale of the endeavour is beyond us.

[3:37:48] Voice 12: And I think there are many others doing it.

[3:37:51] Voice 12: I would first of all talk about the fact that I think if we were to do it, there's probably funding coming down the line in the next whenever.

[3:37:59] Voice 12: ever the federal government ocean strategy uh is a huge piece of work uh there's the province

[3:38:06] Voice 12: who have the bc's first ever coastal marine strategy they've done the what we heard they've

[3:38:15] Voice 12: got an intentions paper we've all been involved in providing feedback and in december 2022 they

[3:38:22] Voice 12: They explicitly say the coastal marine strategy will focus on areas close to shore where estuaries, kelp beds, eelgrass meadows, rocky shorelines and sandy beaches support an abundance and diversity of marine life.

[3:38:37] Voice 12: So I feel like we should just let them get on with it.

[3:38:42] Voice 12: And if they ask us to do something, well and good.

[3:38:45] Voice 12: but in addition to that you know 100 000 is as i said before 1.2 percent of the entire budget

[3:38:53] Voice 12: it's possibly 10 percent of the capital projects budget or the projects budget budget and staff

[3:39:01] Voice 12: costs aren't included yet you know staff calls to manage a contract define the scope and the

[3:39:07] Voice 12: deliverables the format of the data delivery review the data for quality data loading updating

[3:39:13] Voice 12: dating 200 hours plus who knows eelgrass comes and goes how will the data set be updated and i

[3:39:22] Voice 12: have a question a specific question um and it refers back to what trustee elliot said has the

[3:39:28] Voice 12: information to date eelgrass and kelp for instance being loaded to the gist system and how has it

[3:39:35] Voice 12: been used by the trust um there's plenty of good work being done by other bodies um sea change

[3:39:43] Voice 12: I think you spoke of. And, you know, I personally have seen sea change come to consult with people about where to put boys so that they don't interfere with.

[3:39:53] Voice 12: I know that on Saturna they planted seagrass. So there's an enormous amount of work being done.

[3:39:59] Voice 12: I was recommended Dr. May Sira Costa from UVic and Luba Resnick from the Hakai Institute.

[3:40:08] Voice 12: Institute. And to come back to what Trustee Graham said, I believe that there's enough

[3:40:17] Voice 12: information out there and that we should look at it on an ad hoc basis. In fact, if you apply for

[3:40:26] Voice 12: a doc, you have to do a survey of potential seagrass. So I really don't believe that we

[3:40:33] Voice 12: should be in this pond at all i think we should step out and leave it to um the federal government

[3:40:43] Voice 12: and the province and then rejoin as needed later if there is funding available and it's appropriate

[3:40:50] Voice 12: for us to do that thanks thank

[3:40:54] Trustee Patrick: you trustee bolin not seeing any other hands up i'm going to add

[3:40:59] Trustee Patrick: had myself to speak. And I mean, I have to agree. I kind of like Trustee Graham's suggestion there

[3:41:07] Trustee Patrick: that if you fall in those areas of low confidence, it falls on to you as the developer or the

[3:41:13] Trustee Patrick: applicant to do the mapping if it's required to make a decision for you. I think it's also,

[3:41:20] Trustee Patrick: this is an area of opportunity for our in cooperation with part of our mandate. And I

[3:41:26] Trustee Patrick: I know a number of nations are taking strong interest in the marine waters and developing licensing permitting processes and so forth.

[3:41:35] Trustee Patrick: And I think this is a real opportunity to work in cooperation with them.

[3:41:39] Trustee Patrick: And I think I absolutely agree. It would be nice to know about the state of our environment and how that data gets collected.

[3:41:52] Trustee Patrick: And I'll take the kelp was a good example where there was a big die off up north and we didn't really know about it. So it'd be nice to have timely information that we know about the quality and the health of our ecosystems. But I think that's an in cooperation with part of our mandate. And I see Trustee Luckum's hand has been raised.

[3:42:14] Trustee Patrick: Yeah,

[3:42:16] Trustee Luckham: good conversation. Just noting that there's value, essential value in having some baseline data about our environment so that when people do come forward and people are not required to do studies unless somebody asks them to do it.

[3:42:41] Trustee Luckham: and um often there's a pushback uh with respect to well you know what eelgrass or what kelp beds or

[3:42:52] Trustee Luckham: you know where's the science that says that this is a concern and so without even some baseline

[3:42:57] Trustee Luckham: science we don't necessarily aren't necessarily aware of it and so and that whole awareness thing

[3:43:04] Trustee Luckham: actually laura is interesting the die off of the kelp and other in regions certainly some of us are

[3:43:10] Trustee Luckham: well aware of these things but um it's how that filters up in terms of an information

[3:43:17] Trustee Luckham: loop um you have to obviously demonstrate an interest um with respect to that there's other

[3:43:23] Trustee Luckham: agencies doing this a number of the individuals or organizations that were mentioned there hakai

[3:43:30] Trustee Luckham: and sea change and others um those are scientific in nature academic in nature

[3:43:38] Trustee Luckham: that depended upon grants and funding to do that work.

[3:43:42] Trustee Luckham: In fact, SeaChange, we have provided funding

[3:43:45] Trustee Luckham: and the government has provided matching funding

[3:43:48] Trustee Luckham: to facilitate that work.

[3:43:50] Trustee Luckham: It isn't necessarily funded by other agencies

[3:43:55] Trustee Luckham: and working with other agencies

[3:43:56] Trustee Luckham: actually does involve us providing some funding

[3:44:00] Trustee Luckham: to support the mapping.

[3:44:02] Trustee Luckham: And working together is how this stuff gets done

[3:44:05] Trustee Luckham: done because it doesn't happen by itself. And we saw that a couple of years ago at the

[3:44:11] Trustee Luckham: Allens Trust where some work didn't happen because some funding wasn't made available

[3:44:15] Trustee Luckham: from another agency. So we want to be cautious about our work with preserving and protecting

[3:44:22] Trustee Luckham: and building our scientific data to indicate why it is that we have some of the concerns

[3:44:27] Trustee Luckham: concerns that some folks have with respect to this and this and the nations as another example

[3:44:34] Trustee Luckham: have plenty of things that they need to do and mapping the eelgrass may or may not

[3:44:42] Trustee Luckham: serve their purposes compared to us protecting the shorelines so that's my two cents up to you

[3:44:50] Trustee Luckham: what you do as a committee director

[3:44:52] Voice 7: sir mac you have your hand raised thank

[3:44:58] Voice 2: you madam chair i i'm

[3:45:00] Voice 2: I'm glad you pointed out that Sea Change did the last significant mapping in the area from 2012 to

[3:45:05] Voice 2: 2014. So they were the ones who actually mapped this area on the data you're talking about funded

[3:45:11] Voice 2: by the Islands Trust Conservancy. And that was in partnership with other groups. So this mapping

[3:45:18] Voice 2: that has been created has actually been at the facilitation of the Islands Trust one way or

[3:45:22] Voice 2: another. But the question about how is eelgrass instead of being used, we cannot generally in

[3:45:29] Voice 2: in planning, I'm just going to speak to planning for the time being, we cannot make or cannot

[3:45:34] Voice 2: recommend regulations be made or development permit errors, for example, without evidence.

[3:45:40] Voice 2: We need the evidence. And we cannot rely on inaccurate or known faulty information. That

[3:45:47] Voice 2: would be, we could get a lot of trouble doing that. So in terms of creating this information,

[3:45:52] Voice 2: we cannot make a bylaw based on information that's considered false or untrue or et cetera.

[3:45:56] Voice 2: so how has it been done in the past i know for example on salt spring we have setbacks required

[3:46:03] Voice 2: from known eelgrass maps and that's captured in the bylaw itself where those egress that mapping

[3:46:08] Voice 2: is provided and so people know ahead of time where they can and cannot do put things and of course

[3:46:14] Voice 2: there's other regulations out there from other bodies but that's one example of how it's been

[3:46:18] Voice 2: done in terms of setbacks another example is done in marine protected areas sensitive ecosystem

[3:46:23] Voice 2: system protected areas protecting the shorelines that's a very significant way of doing things

[3:46:28] Voice 2: and then you can that's what actually requires them then to get the further mapping that we

[3:46:32] Voice 2: were talking about for for um for putting in docks and what have you and then um yeah but

[3:46:38] Voice 2: what i'm hearing from this group is a lack of a desire to spend this much money on this project

[3:46:43] Voice 2: and if you go that way i wouldn't really want to encourage you to not i i would hope that you all

[3:46:49] Voice 2: understand that the trust council has asked you to do this through the strategic plan.

[3:46:55] Voice 2: So you've been tasked to do this and you're choosing not to, and that's your prerogative

[3:46:59] Voice 2: because you don't want to spend the money, which kind of seems like an FPC thing. But if you do

[3:47:03] Voice 2: that, we would want to get to a place, I would think, that maybe you're ready to respond to

[3:47:07] Voice 2: these grants if they're available. Because what I'm hearing is this is a financial constraint,

[3:47:12] Voice 2: you're concerned about the money. So yeah, it's sort of, I don't know, maybe a resolution if

[3:47:18] Voice 2: if you're going to head down that path is that, you know,

[3:47:21] Voice 2: be prepared to respond to any grants that are available in order to complete

[3:47:25] Voice 2: the mapping or something like that.

[3:47:27] Voice 2: I would encourage you not to totally kill the idea because it's too expensive,

[3:47:30] Voice 2: even though it's being tasked to you,

[3:47:31] Voice 2: but that's a whole lot of things all at once in responding to all your

[3:47:35] Voice 2: comments.

[3:47:37] Trustee Patrick: Before you leave that point,

[3:47:39] Trustee Patrick: what would be required to put this in a state of a shovel ready for a grant?

[3:47:47] Voice 2: Great question. I'm glad you asked.

[3:47:48] Voice 2: so we would have to establish a um i would want to have a like not a request for proposal but

[3:47:54] Voice 2: at least a terms of reference for developing a term a proposal and that terms of reference

[3:47:59] Voice 2: i could bring it back to this group at a future date to be ready for consideration of future

[3:48:05] Voice 2: mapping and so that terms of reference because then that way the bulk of the work to create a

[3:48:09] Voice 2: contract is done and i can just quickly apply it to a grant or quickly apply it to something but

[3:48:14] Voice 2: But if I have to start the wheel spinning at terms of reference, I could be, I just might not get to it.

[3:48:20] Voice 2: Because you know how it goes, Grant.

[3:48:21] Voice 2: Oh, you've got two weeks.

[3:48:22] Voice 2: How lucky of you, right?

[3:48:23] Voice 2: It's like, no.

[3:48:25] Voice 2: So that's what I would need.

[3:48:26] Voice 2: I would need direction to create a terms of reference for future mapping.

[3:48:30] Voice 12: Thank you.

[3:48:31] Voice 12: Trustee Boland.

[3:48:35] Voice 12: So I would like to take issue with something, which is that, as they say, not my strategic plan.

[3:48:41] Voice 12: so the ear grass mapping was from the strategic plan 2018 so having parked that and left it aside

[3:48:52] Voice 12: to me it's not just about the money it's also about the the um is it let's see you know it

[3:49:01] Voice 12: it's below high water i mean where does it end our control um there are setbacks for housing

[3:49:09] Voice 12: closing 25, 50 feet from the shore. There is a provincial requirement if you want to apply for

[3:49:17] Voice 12: a dock to do quite a bit of work. And there are many Parks Canada areas where they've put in

[3:49:24] Voice 12: mooring buoys. There are businesses where they've put in mooring buoys with attention to protect

[3:49:29] Voice 12: eelgrass. So I just feel that the scale of this endeavour will not give us back any value in

[3:49:39] Voice 12: in terms of protecting the islands, that is proportional to, A, the cost,

[3:49:47] Voice 12: but B, the management of the information and the continual updating of that information.

[3:49:53] Voice 12: When both the federal government and the province may be embarking on a very large-scale program

[3:49:59] Voice 12: to take care of some of those issues, we just become a piece of unintegrated data,

[3:50:06] Voice 12: data which we you know can't even necessarily deliver to others so I'm thinking about you know

[3:50:14] Voice 12: value for for the trust in terms of the endeavor not just the money but also what's achieved by it

[3:50:24] Voice 12: and I think there are easier ways to achieve the same we can protect eelgrass by having a survey

[3:50:31] Voice 12: they done as needed i mean i believe that you actually have mapped the areas that are sandy

[3:50:38] Voice 12: rocky whatever muddy and even for that you can you know estimate whether it's a suitable environment

[3:50:45] Voice 12: for eelgrass and maybe make investigation um you know necessary when that environment is there

[3:50:54] Voice 12: to me that's even better because what you're saying is this environment theoretically could

[3:50:59] Voice 12: could have eelgrass let's check if that's true rather than um you know that means it's kind of

[3:51:06] Voice 12: focused what you're trying to do i think it's just too unfocused and too labor intensive and expensive

[3:51:14] Voice 12: to to undertake this but that's where i'm coming from thank you thank

[3:51:20] Trustee Patrick: you trustee campbell

[3:51:21] Trustee Patrick: i

[3:51:23] Voice 3: just just wanted to sort of support what was saying pardon pardon the madness behind me right

[3:51:29] Voice 3: now um and uh and just to comment that something that was was actioned in 2018 is very much out

[3:51:40] Voice 3: of date given what we went through with covid and what we're seeing uh jump up as a as a need with

[3:51:48] Voice 3: housing and if we have the ability to uh invest a hundred thousand dollars in in anything that we're

[3:51:56] Voice 3: that we're working on right now i think that that would be better spent that way that's

[3:52:03] Voice 17: my own two

[3:52:03] Voice 3: cents thank

[3:52:04] Trustee Patrick: you very much i know at the last trust council meeting there was an added filter of

[3:52:09] Trustee Patrick: putting priority on uh wasn't it projects for land use planning or i can't i don't remember

[3:52:16] Trustee Patrick: the wording of it but there was something of that nature that was intended to filter

[3:52:20] Trustee Patrick: I am generally, I mean, I'm hearing mild support, but I'm probably hearing more caution being tossed on this conversation.

[3:52:31] Trustee Patrick: I think Stefan, our director, CIRMAC, had put out a potential recommendation there of saying, could this be prepared to be grant worthy, grant ready, so that if a grant comes available, that this could be ready to go.

[3:52:53] Trustee Patrick: Is that an option that people are more interested in?

[3:52:58] Trustee Patrick: I see Trustee Borthwick's hand is raised.

[3:53:02] Voice 15: Yeah, and I want to say, sort of echo a little bit, Trustee Boland and Trustee Campbell, I think those are really good points, and well made. And I do understand, I understand Director Cermak's position as well.

[3:53:22] Voice 15: And I, you know, I recognize that. And I, it's not about killing projects, but I think as Trustee Campbell was saying, it's about making sure that we're making sure that those projects, we can make those projects count.

[3:53:37] Voice 15: And I would be open to talking about how to make this grant ready. I'd also be, I mean, I don't know that.

[3:53:45] Voice 15: So this is 100,000 for a comprehensive map, is my, and maybe Director Cermak can sort of correct me here, is it, would this 100,000 be going towards revising the mapping for all of areas or just for those polygons where there was insufficient information or uncertain information?

[3:54:10] Voice 15: There's

[3:54:11] Voice 7: a better word for it, but.

[3:54:15] Voice 1: So if I may, Madam Chair,

[3:54:17] Voice 2: I'll just answer that question.

[3:54:18] Voice 2: I mean, the most immediate need, of course, is to correct the data of the low confidence

[3:54:28] Voice 2: polygons.

[3:54:29] Voice 2: But I don't see how you can tow a camera and know where you are on the boat too well without

[3:54:33] Voice 2: knowing you've crossed one polygon to the next.

[3:54:35] Voice 2: So logically, there would be overlap, it wouldn't be 100%.

[3:54:41] Voice 2: And I'll remind all of you too that a new strategic plan was approved by Trust Council.

[3:54:47] Voice 2: So I know it's interim, but it is approved.

[3:54:50] Voice 2: Trust Council did vote that in.

[3:54:51] Voice 2: So staff are working under those directions.

[3:54:54] Voice 2: And also I gave you an alternative recommendation.

[3:54:57] Voice 2: You could use this as a placeholder.

[3:54:59] Voice 2: Aside from just preparing in terms of reference for potential future use,

[3:55:03] Voice 2: I could simply do a request for information from drone operators and see what it would cost them.

[3:55:08] Voice 2: Like I said, my early conversation suggests it's cheaper,

[3:55:12] Voice 2: But I don't know if there's a threshold of which it may or may not become palatable in terms of value. And I'm sorry if I misspoke, Trustee Boland, about summarizing fiscal conservancy versus value. The value is certainly what this group is speaking about. So you have three options as far as I see it in terms of approve, don't approve, or terms of reference, or go out and seek more information.

[3:55:37] Trustee Patrick: Well, I'm looking to members as to a direction. I think the terms of reference is not saying, it's basically trying to get it ready for looking for seeking other funding sources other than taxation as the method, I think is what I'm hearing.

[3:55:55] Trustee Patrick: But Trustee Elliott, do you have a suggestion here?

[3:55:59] Trustee Patrick: I think Trustee

[3:56:00] Voice 5: Campbell had his hand up first.

[3:56:01] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Campbell, did you have your hand up again?

[3:56:05] Voice 3: No, I just didn't put it down.

[3:56:06] Voice 3: them.

[3:56:07] Voice 4: There you go. Yeah,

[3:56:11] Voice 4: I think a course of action would be, I would like to request more

[3:56:17] Voice 4: information before embarking on either, you know, fully redoing the mapping that we have.

[3:56:25] Voice 4: What is the method that's going to be the most cost effective and going to deliver the best

[3:56:30] Voice 4: results is it partnership um with different stakeholder groups is it um drone mapping and so

[3:56:38] Voice 4: i do support um option three but it's hard to director sir matt can you get more information

[3:56:49] Voice 4: and we we just hold some budget for this not knowing how it's going to be spent i guess that's

[3:56:55] Voice 4: what the placeholder is that's

[3:56:59] Voice 2: what my proposal was is a hundred thousand as a placeholder just

[3:57:03] Voice 2: to signal the intent of this group to do the mapping and then i could come back and try to

[3:57:08] Voice 2: refine that cost but if there's no interest in doing it using taxpayers dollars or i guess it's

[3:57:13] Voice 2: all taxpayers dollars using uh this budget i suppose um and you would like to do it in a

[3:57:21] Voice 2: different method like you know i'm hearing interest in the marine planning or the marine

[3:57:26] Voice 2: mapping going on by dfo we don't know the extent of that is this is it double dipping that kind of

[3:57:31] Voice 2: thing so what i'm hearing is concern don't want to do it until you have more information and if

[3:57:38] Voice 2: that's the case and i don't think i would return with a um with another business case but what i

[3:57:43] Voice 2: would return i would report back over time what i understand is to be the current status of mapping

[3:57:47] Voice 2: and i would perhaps dig more into that and maybe we we try this again next year if we find out that

[3:57:53] Voice 2: the mapping is not still not being achieved i

[3:57:55] Voice 4: i think that would be supportive i would be supportive

[3:57:58] Voice 4: of that direction because i think federally the initiative with the oceans protection plan

[3:58:03] Voice 4: there's been conversation about um working together with dfo and how the island's trust

[3:58:10] Voice 4: might fit into that i think this is a a strong direction from the federal government and it's

[3:58:16] Voice 4: It's maybe too soon for us to try to redo our faulty mapping if we could work on partnerships instead and access.

[3:58:27] Voice 4: Yeah, I don't know what I'm saying.

[3:58:29] Voice 4: So

[3:58:29] Voice 2: my understanding, if I may just interrupt you, sorry, is there may be grants coming available for their ocean from DFO for ocean cleanup.

[3:58:39] Voice 2: I think they're calling it clean water or clean ocean.

[3:58:42] Voice 2: I think that's the name of the program.

[3:58:44] Voice 2: program and this

[3:58:45] Voice 4: there's two different programs i think the ocean's protections does involve

[3:58:48] Voice 4: mapping it's the fresh

[3:58:50] Voice 4: water um but

[3:58:53] Voice 2: that usually means that they'll do exactly what we're talking

[3:58:56] Voice 2: about is spot work with groups and other groups and this is where the islands just can be involved

[3:58:59] Voice 2: with those groups and stuff like that so but nonetheless i can report back as we understand

[3:59:03] Voice 2: more and if there's an opportunity and perhaps again maybe then the best way is to um prepare

[3:59:10] Voice 2: terms of reference for potential future use if we need to apply it in order to access the grants for

[3:59:16] Voice 2: the mapping product if because quite often the feds in the province they say great we're going

[3:59:22] Voice 2: to do all this work but really what they're saying is we've got money for you to go do the work

[3:59:26] Voice 2: if you know what i mean like they generally don't go around to the work themselves right

[3:59:29] Voice 4: but we have

[3:59:29] Voice 2: to

[3:59:29] Voice 4: be ready with a potential program

[3:59:31] Voice 4: to receive that money for the work i see yeah all right who

[3:59:35] Trustee Patrick: wants to make a stab at

[3:59:36] Voice 7: that motion do we have some suggested wording i'll

[3:59:45] Trustee Patrick: look to uh uh you

[3:59:48] Trustee Patrick: think trustee mullen you want to try it or i was going to say it looks like dr sermac do you have

[3:59:52] Trustee Patrick: some suggested wording that

[3:59:54] Voice 2: might help us i'll wait for trustee bowling i'll defer okay it's

[3:59:57] Voice 12: fine and thank you uh trustee

[4:00:00] Voice 12: Cermak for being so gracious I am tired and I was getting a bit irritable etc so I'm sure you

[4:00:06] Voice 12: didn't intend the meaning that I took perhaps who knows but anyway let's agree let's agree that

[4:00:12] Voice 12: we're all friends so I move that the RPC go no further with the proposal as it stands to map

[4:00:19] Voice 12: eelgrass but um reviews the situation throughout the year with a view to partnering with um

[4:00:30] Voice 12: ocean initiatives that are ongoing before

[4:00:33] Trustee Patrick: we second that do we want to i mean there was a

[4:00:36] Trustee Patrick: terms of reference or grant ready worthiness do we need to say go no i don't think we

[4:00:42] Trustee Patrick: did we want to say go no further or or

[4:00:46] Voice 12: go no further with the

[4:00:48] Voice 4: proposal at this time or

[4:00:50] Voice 5: well

[4:00:50] Voice 4: not allocate funding i think is is the point the project still potentially has

[4:00:56] Voice 4: has correct work to be done in creating the terms of reference but if you go no further with the

[4:01:00] Voice 4: entire project it essentially

[4:01:02] Trustee Patrick: kills yeah so i

[4:01:04] Voice 4: was gonna say

[4:01:04] Trustee Patrick: let's see if director sermac i mean

[4:01:06] Trustee Patrick: if he's got a special wording in his

[4:01:08] Trustee Patrick: mind that might solve our problem

[4:01:09] Voice 12: please yes i'd be glad

[4:01:11] Voice 12: well

[4:01:12] Voice 2: that now i'm trying to figure out how to fix the wording that you had so

[4:01:16] Voice 2: perhaps or not but i was just going to say um that

[4:01:19] Trustee Patrick: hasn't been seconded so so for clarity

[4:01:23] Voice 2: we'll be looking for a request for decision to advance certain business cases so when you make

[4:01:30] Voice 2: that resolution I'm assuming you're going to do at least one you just won't include this so you

[4:01:34] Voice 2: don't have to say you're not including it right so what you're asking me is to do something in the

[4:01:38] Voice 2: positive and so that would be request staff to prepare terms of reference for potential

[4:01:45] Voice 2: potential for future eelgrass mapping potentials or something like that

[4:01:50] Trustee Patrick: grant funding potential

[4:01:52] Trustee Patrick: Yeah,

[4:01:53] Voice 2: prepare a Terms of Reference for potential future grant funding supporting eelgrass mapping.

[4:01:58] Voice 4: And might we be able to add, I'm just looking back on page 52, explore options with qualified local stewardship groups for partnership?

[4:02:12] Voice 4: I don't want to task you with...

[4:02:17] Voice 4: Or just explore partners.

[4:02:19] Voice 4: Explore partners or partnerships with...

[4:02:23] Voice 2: Yeah, I did this discussion with the Islands Trust Conservancy early days.

[4:02:28] Voice 2: Like one of the first things they did is mob me when I became a director and said, you have to do this, you have to do this.

[4:02:32] Voice 2: So this was one of those things that they were really making sure I reminded this group that the mapping was inadequate and that they can't use the data either.

[4:02:41] Voice 2: And they would really value the data as well.

[4:02:43] Voice 2: So I think partnership in any marine stewardship program is inherent.

[4:02:48] Voice 2: But if you want to add the words, certainly welcome.

[4:02:50] Voice 2: i

[4:02:50] Voice 12: was thinking that with the bc province plan which is called the marines coastal marine whatever

[4:02:58] Voice 12: i mean if you were to see those as the people that you tune into they possibly will have a

[4:03:06] Voice 12: kind of an umbrella relationship with multiple other groups and because of course they did all

[4:03:12] Voice 12: of that engagement and seeking feedbacks so they probably have a list of everybody who um

[4:03:18] Voice 12: you know we could partner with them and inflation okay but

[4:03:23] Trustee Patrick: anyway i was going to say robert do you

[4:03:25] Trustee Patrick: have anything that you've captured for a readable motion or you're still waiting for and i say

[4:03:32] Trustee Patrick: trustee campbell your hands up again or is it meant to be up well

[4:03:36] Voice 17: i put it i put it up just

[4:03:40] Voice 17: dawned on me couldn't the conservancy fund something like this if it's useful to them

[4:03:46] Voice 17: wouldn't that be uh something that they could

[4:03:50] Voice 17: they certainly

[4:03:52] Trustee Patrick: could the project i think they

[4:03:54] Trustee Patrick: certainly could could move a business case forward and their own um in their own but i think at this

[4:04:00] Trustee Patrick: point we're going to be making this suggestion so how's that reading marine

[4:04:04] Voice 4: ecosystem mapping

[4:04:05] Voice 4: was included in the last budget and there isn't staff capacity to do it and there wasn't enough

[4:04:10] Voice 4: money in the budget to tender for a third party contract so there isn't capacity they're very

[4:04:16] Voice 4: very tightly, like they work very close to the margins with the conservancy budget. So

[4:04:24] Voice 4: there just isn't the money right now

[4:04:26] Trustee Patrick: or staff. Our capacity is, we've only got 2.5 full-time

[4:04:30] Trustee Patrick: equivalents for doing long-term planning projects on this side. And we're trying to do housing.

[4:04:35] Trustee Patrick: There are over a hundred

[4:04:36] Voice 4: properties that the conservancy manages with two people.

[4:04:40] Voice 4: So it's a lot.

[4:04:42] Trustee Patrick: So anyway, let's see. How's the wording looking here?

[4:04:46] Trustee Patrick: Request staff to prepare terms of reference for potential grant funding

[4:04:50] Trustee Patrick: for eelgrass mapping and explore partnerships.

[4:04:53] Trustee Patrick: Does that do the trick?

[4:04:57] Voice 2: The intent is conveyed.

[4:04:59] Voice 2: There's a few as and does type thing missing, but it works for me.

[4:05:03] Voice 2: I understand the intent, but what is the

[4:05:08] Voice 2: will of the committee?

[4:05:10] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Boland, is that a motion you're willing to make?

[4:05:13] Trustee Patrick: Yes,

[4:05:13] Voice 12: to request staff to prepare terms of reference for potential grant funding.

[4:05:17] Voice 12: um yes i mean we are making it clear that i mean this if you read this in isolation it sounds like

[4:05:26] Voice 12: we're all gung-ho about it which isn't really the case so i'm just not sure how to reflect that

[4:05:35] Voice 12: because you were saying that just by not including it in the ones that went forward

[4:05:40] Voice 12: that message came across i'm sorry to be negative and contrary about this but that's

[4:05:47] Voice 12: then i'll

[4:05:48] Voice 4: put forward the motion yeah i'm comfortable with it all right then go ahead

[4:05:53] Voice 5: trustee also move it

[4:05:54] Voice 4: uh trustee alan has his hand up as well

[4:05:56] Trustee Patrick: my list disappeared again every time

[4:05:58] Trustee Patrick: the screen changes i lose my list off the thing trustee alan yeah

[4:06:03] Trustee Allen: i just uh clarify is there a

[4:06:05] Trustee Allen: time frame for this is this for next november is this next year is there should there be a time

[4:06:09] Trustee Allen: frame at all yeah

[4:06:10] Trustee Patrick: that would help yeah director sermac what could be a time frame that you would

[4:06:16] Trustee Patrick: like to see in this one well

[4:06:18] Voice 2: if i'm if i'm deadly honest with you guys developing in terms of

[4:06:22] Voice 2: reference for a maybe is a low priority in my world so i'm sure i would be punting that into

[4:06:27] Voice 2: probably just past christmas i mean maybe

[4:06:31] Voice 2: i get it done on a on a good day but there's a lot of

[4:06:34] Voice 2: things coming down and the reason i say that is the biggest thing which i haven't reported about

[4:06:38] Voice 2: is city view um and that implementing that software is going to take many many many hours

[4:06:43] Voice 2: And we've lost Mark, and that's not now my project I'm working with.

[4:06:47] Voice 2: So that's going to take a

[4:06:49] Voice 2: lot of effort.

[4:06:50] Voice 2: So

[4:06:50] Trustee Patrick: in early 24?

[4:06:52] Trustee Patrick: Yeah,

[4:06:53] Voice 2: certainly before the end of the fiscal

[4:06:54] Voice 2: would be my intent.

[4:06:55] Voice 2: Not that I'm looking to get anything done.

[4:06:57] Voice 2: But, you know, as

[4:06:58] Trustee Patrick: soon as we

[4:06:58] Voice 2: hit April, we're off implementing whatever the new fiscal is.

[4:07:01] Voice 2: So I think there'll be a small window of opportunity somewhere between January and March.

[4:07:05] Voice 12: There you go.

[4:07:06] Voice 12: Timing

[4:07:07] Voice 2: is in there now.

[4:07:07] Voice 12: If there's any contacts in the province, I mean, I have the names of those people who did the sessions with us seeking feedback, it's possible maybe to ask them just for a rough idea of timing so that you don't kind of push all your resources into doing it and they go, yeah, you've loads of time, don't worry.

[4:07:29] Voice 12: You know, they might say, give you some sort of ballpark estimate.

[4:07:32] Voice 12: estimation well

[4:07:34] Voice 2: i if you don't mind me expressing one i'd be grateful for any context you forward

[4:07:37] Voice 2: my way and two i am aware of marine mapping strategies we'd want to map at low tide which

[4:07:44] Voice 2: of course corresponds with the solstices which means that uh you know summer day is the best

[4:07:49] Voice 2: time to do the mapping of surrounding that that moon cycle those kind of two or three moon cycles

[4:07:54] Voice 2: surrounding solstice so that's when the mapping would have to be done because you're sure not

[4:07:58] Voice 2: going to do it at midnight over winter so i

[4:08:01] Voice 12: know i did it kept mapping

[4:08:04] Voice 7: okay yeah brusty elliott

[4:08:07] Voice 7: do you want to make this motion i

[4:08:12] Voice 4: so move um although i'm not in favor of tying it to deadlines

[4:08:16] Voice 4: because they just become irrelevant as other work piles on but i will move that the regional

[4:08:22] Voice 4: planning committee requests that staff prepare oh request staff to prepare terms of reference

[4:08:27] Voice 4: before the end of the current fiscal year for potential grant funding for eelgrass mapping

[4:08:32] Voice 4: and explore partnerships is

[4:08:34] Voice 7: there a second is

[4:08:38] Trustee Patrick: there a second who's seconding i

[4:08:41] Voice 7: see lots of

[4:08:42] Trustee Patrick: hands up there trustee campbell was okay sorry too many screens i apologize here is there any

[4:08:49] Trustee Patrick: discussion i'll call the

[4:08:53] Voice 7: vote then all those in favor raise your electronic hands i'm not seeing

[4:09:05] Trustee Patrick: anyone not raise their hands so that is carried so you can lower your hands thank you guys that's

[4:09:10] Trustee Patrick: a lot and we have two more business cases to talk about can

[4:09:12] Voice 4: i request a five minute break just to

[4:09:17] Voice 4: set refresh our coffee cups all

[4:09:20] Voice 7: right five minutes fill your water glasses

[4:09:24] and

[4:09:27] Voice 7: i know trustee laroni has her hand up did people return from their quick break

[4:15:30] Voice 7: enough folks hopefully here trustee allen are you out there you didn't even hear me say anything

[4:15:38] Trustee Allen: god it's just i'll tell you this i'm used to this abuse by women because i had two older sisters

[4:15:43] Trustee Allen: laura that's all i'm gonna say

[4:15:45] Trustee Patrick: trustee allen please no there is no personal thing here you're

[4:15:50] Trustee Patrick: just i don't i cannot

[4:15:52] Trustee Patrick: see your face and you don't show up on my main screen and you're on the list

[4:15:56] Trustee Patrick: screen that keeps disappearing off of my so

[4:16:00] Trustee Allen: please do not take it personally kind of funny enough

[4:16:04] Trustee Allen: but here i'll show you my

[4:16:06] Voice 7: there he is there's my hat

[4:16:08] Voice 15: i've noticed uh alex i've noticed this

[4:16:13] Voice 15: happened with your yeah with other chairs as well um i've noticed you not your for some reason your

[4:16:21] Voice 15: hand doesn't pop up on things i've noticed that uh once at one of the trust councils and then

[4:16:26] Voice 15: And something else as well.

[4:16:29] Voice 15: So I don't know what that's about.

[4:16:32] Voice 15: But we're

[4:16:32] Trustee Patrick: all working collectively.

[4:16:34] Trustee Patrick: So thank you, everyone.

[4:16:35] Trustee Allen: The audience sees

[4:16:36] Trustee Allen: my hand all the time.

[4:16:37] Trustee Allen: You're

[4:16:37] Voice 4: a Sagittarius.

[4:16:38] Voice 4: For some reason, my Capricorn-ness just dials into you.

[4:16:41] Voice 4: I will see you and

[4:16:43] Voice 4: advance your questions every time.

[4:16:46] Voice 4: I got you back.

[4:16:46] Voice 15: I can see you all the time, Alex.

[4:16:48] Voice 15: But I don't know.

[4:16:50] Trustee Patrick: All right.

[4:16:50] Voice 15: Let's

[4:16:51] Trustee Patrick: get on with more conversations here.

[4:16:53] Trustee Patrick: We've got one business case down, two to go.

[4:16:55] Trustee Patrick: So, over to you, Director Cermak.

[4:17:02] Voice 7: Of course.

[4:17:03] Voice 2: Okay.

[4:17:03] Voice 2: Next one is housing needs reports.

[4:17:05] Voice 2: We've had a lot of conversation about the housing needs gaps analysis that was used to inform what this business case was or was not.

[4:17:13] Voice 2: I don't recommend applying any of the housing needs gaps to this.

[4:17:18] Voice 2: As I said earlier, I recommend just doing the legislative required minimum, which is to gather the necessary information and to report it out in the format that's been legislated.

[4:17:28] Voice 2: And as was indicated earlier, the legislation changed after the last round of housing needs reports was issued.

[4:17:35] Voice 2: So there's a slight difference in formatting and information required.

[4:17:38] Voice 2: It is a legislative requirement.

[4:17:40] Voice 2: We have to do it every five years.

[4:17:42] Voice 2: The purpose is to understand change over time.

[4:17:45] Voice 2: And there you go.

[4:17:47] Voice 2: So I've included an estimate.

[4:17:49] Voice 2: I based it on a couple of factors.

[4:17:52] Voice 2: one I looked at the previous ones that were done and I just carried them the amount forward in

[4:17:57] Voice 2: terms of using you know what's the word not cost of living but the other one interest rates are oh

[4:18:04] Voice 2: my gosh I can't think of the right term I'm having a brain fart in the afternoon but I just brought

[4:18:08] Voice 2: the cost forward to modern days and I also used the housing needs gaps analysis I asked them for

[4:18:15] Voice 2: a high level cost estimate to do their work and so I compared the two and found the average and

[4:18:19] Voice 2: there you go you have before you a business case happy to discuss all

[4:18:24] Voice 7: right i'm sure there will be

[4:18:25] Voice 7: discussion who's up first hands aren't rising like crazy oops

[4:18:33] Trustee Patrick: let's see the list disappeared again so

[4:18:35] Trustee Patrick: i have to see if that's trustee elliott see sure

[4:18:38] Voice 4: i'll jump in um i think it's pretty evident this

[4:18:41] Voice 4: is a legislative requirement we would be out of compliance if we don't advance it i'm supportive

[4:18:47] Voice 4: supportive of option three. We have to do it. So it sucks that this has been downloaded to

[4:18:56] Voice 4: local governments once again, and we're not going to be able to do a complete

[4:19:04] Voice 4: analysis and fill in the gaps. But there is the opportunity, as you've identified through

[4:19:09] Voice 4: through our LTCs to fill in those gaps.

[4:19:16] Voice 4: Actually, interestingly,

[4:19:17] Voice 4: I don't know if this is something to watch,

[4:19:18] Voice 4: but on Gabriela Island where they've been working

[4:19:23] Voice 4: for a long time on a social,

[4:19:27] Voice 4: not a social services coordinator,

[4:19:29] Voice 4: but basically somebody who would coordinate

[4:19:32] Voice 4: between the regional district,

[4:19:34] Voice 4: the Islands Trust and stakeholder groups.

[4:19:36] Voice 4: And so we, I think we have the data that would fill in the gaps. So I, from a Gabriela trustee perspective, I'm actually comfortable not going after the supplemental data. I think we're going to be able to collect that.

[4:19:52] Voice 4: If there was some way for LTCs to work towards collecting that data, that would be great, but we need to do the housing needs report. So I support options three and would advance that.

[4:20:11] Voice 7: Trustee Borthwick?

[4:20:13] Voice 7: like um

[4:20:16] Voice 15: yeah i i definitely agree um that uh you know obviously there's legislative requirement

[4:20:22] Voice 15: that's that's a no-brainer um i'm just extremely aware that there's there's uh like i i you know

[4:20:33] Voice 15: obviously they see that that um you know uh government would love to have all that information

[4:20:38] Voice 15: and also uh there is there can be harm in in that information there's not ever it's not safe for

[4:20:46] Voice 15: everyone to speak in that way. And that's, um, uh, I trust, I trust my fellow trustees, uh,

[4:20:56] Voice 15: pretty, pretty fully. Um, but I, I definitely understand why those, some of those gaps exist.

[4:21:04] Voice 15: And I, um, it's, it's inherently difficult for a government or a contractor to acquire that kind

[4:21:14] Voice 15: of information um and that is you know not an accident on behalf of a lot of communities and

[4:21:20] Voice 15: i i think that's i don't know i have complicated feelings about it um i do um i do really want to

[4:21:29] Voice 15: like shout out the the denman uh housing apc um who through whom i'm hoping to and i have been

[4:21:38] Voice 15: getting um getting a lot of input from people who wouldn't won't otherwise feel comfortable

[4:21:43] Voice 15: speaking to government, but nevertheless need their voices to be heard. And the value of having

[4:21:49] Voice 15: a civilian offshoot of the trust that can be a buffer or a filter for those people to still

[4:21:57] Voice 15: have input into housing questions and also feedback on their situation without necessarily

[4:22:03] Voice 15: identifying themselves in a way that would open themselves up to problems is extremely valuable.

[4:22:10] Voice 15: and and the the people on the ground here have done uh really great work in in bringing those

[4:22:16] Voice 15: voices into a space that can be heard without exposing them to or you know having them feel

[4:22:22] Voice 15: that they have to expose themselves to government um which you know that's i think that's really

[4:22:27] Voice 15: valuable and it just from a trauma perspective it's really valuable to be able to honor that

[4:22:32] Voice 15: for people um so yeah that's that's my 10 cents thank

[4:22:37] Voice 7: you trustee alan thank you chair uh

[4:22:43] Voice 7: yeah

[4:22:44] Trustee Allen: so i'm looking at what's written under recommended option so one i just have a question

[4:22:50] Trustee Allen: uh quote somewhat addresses the updated strategic plan so my first question is what would make it

[4:22:58] Trustee Allen: like what is missing what's what's missing that's not quite addressing it more robustly i guess and

[4:23:05] Trustee Allen: then the uh and the second bullet i mean i do have concerns that we don't have it's all about

[4:23:12] Trustee Allen: community engagement of course right that's why we exist for the community and um and if it's only

[4:23:17] Trustee Allen: we're going to be able to only address that through ocp led amendments and nothing no other

[4:23:21] Trustee Allen: avenue for feedback that's another concern i have so if i could hear from director surma

[4:23:28] Trustee Allen: Sure,

[4:23:31] Voice 2: thank you. So your strategic plan includes the objective to strengthen

[4:23:35] Voice 2: affordable housing throughout the Islands Trust area. Within that it has certain actions it asks,

[4:23:44] Voice 2: it seeks to achieve and this is not one of those specific actions.

[4:23:48] Voice 2: Instead this is a legislative action which will help achieve the objective. So that's why

[4:23:55] Voice 2: the strategic plan it somewhat addresses the strategic plan in in that it addresses the

[4:23:59] Voice 2: objective but it does not meet the objective the strategic plan in that there's no specific action

[4:24:04] Voice 2: it's accomplishing does that make sense trustee allen okay so then they uh shoot i've forgotten

[4:24:11] Voice 2: the next question i felt so smart

[4:24:12] Voice 4: making this isn't work on creating housing this is to trustee

[4:24:17] Voice 4: boland's point earlier it's it's a report that we have to produce and it's unfortunate but this is

[4:24:23] Voice 4: is not the actual work right it's very interesting

[4:24:25] Voice 2: thank you my

[4:24:27] Trustee Allen: story was uh just well it's the only

[4:24:30] Trustee Allen: way it can be addressed with with our community through um if they're doing an ocp and lgb review

[4:24:36] Trustee Allen: is that correct unless we actually do something on our you know our own direction as local trust

[4:24:43] Trustee Allen: committee separately that's

[4:24:44] Voice 2: that's a great question i'm glad you asked it so individually

[4:24:47] Voice 2: Individually, of course, each housing needs report does speak to your individual local trust areas.

[4:24:53] Voice 2: So, yes, but there's nothing precluding the Regional Planning Committee to take that information and apply it in a certain way.

[4:25:04] Voice 2: And that might be the housing strategy in general, seeing that there's greater demand in a certain area.

[4:25:09] Voice 2: Therefore, they're going to apply more resources to address it or something to that effect.

[4:25:13] Voice 2: So, the information is how you use it.

[4:25:15] Voice 2: It can be used on a local level or at a regional level.

[4:25:18] Voice 7: All right. Trustee Boland?

[4:25:27] Voice 12: Yeah. Is this option three, you're still estimating that it will cost $100,000 to $120,000?

[4:25:37] Voice 12: I had a look at the requirement and the format, and I may be looking at the wrong one,

[4:25:45] Voice 12: but it seemed like a lot of the data came straight out of the census,

[4:25:49] Voice 12: census you know similar to the fact that claire had put in a request and got you know information

[4:25:55] Voice 12: formatted for those island profiles so um i hate to be picky but it just seems how it's i'm just

[4:26:05] Voice 12: surprised that it's going to cost so much money since a lot of the data is going to come straight

[4:26:11] Voice 12: out of census canada am i being too picky if

[4:26:19] Voice 2: i may through the chair the i don't think all the

[4:26:22] Voice 2: information comes from census data but i forget exactly where it is it's in the report and forgive

[4:26:26] Voice 2: me for not being totally clear in all the sources that's what i had the contractor do so both this

[4:26:32] Voice 2: report and specifically the urban matters report they submitted identify some of the potential

[4:26:37] Voice 2: locations of the data certainly the bulk of it comes from stats but then of course interpreting

[4:26:42] Voice 2: that and putting it to report and putting into that's required does take time and effort

[4:26:46] Voice 2: And we don't have those in-house resources, but I did put it as an option.

[4:26:52] Voice 2: That's why I used, for example, an option two.

[4:26:56] Voice 2: There it is.

[4:26:56] Voice 2: Using a co-op student, because a competent co-op student, you get the right one, may

[4:27:01] Voice 2: be able to do this information as they've sort of already demonstrated being able to.

[4:27:04] Voice 2: But I asked them how long to take.

[4:27:06] Voice 2: I sort of sussed it out.

[4:27:07] Voice 2: It took them 40 hours per housing profile.

[4:27:11] Voice 2: file so if you copy that for the 11 or 12 that need to be done that's a lot of hours and we're

[4:27:18] Voice 2: not then we're spending a lot of time reviewing the process and so on and so forth so you can

[4:27:22] Voice 2: see it mushrooms out of control and so it's a much more cost effective and time efficient to

[4:27:27] Voice 2: to hire a contractor hence my recommendation but it's not that we don't necessarily get the

[4:27:32] Voice 2: information it's just that we don't have the time necessarily to process it in the way that's

[4:27:35] Voice 2: required it's

[4:27:36] Trustee Patrick: you know the interpretation of the data um i want to kind of put myself on the

[4:27:41] Trustee Patrick: discussion here too it's interesting the province did did pay for almost all of the housing

[4:27:48] Trustee Patrick: assessments done needs assessments in this last round that was done um both none of these islands

[4:27:56] Trustee Patrick: got funded so we paid for this once before and did the housing needs assessment so i think there's

[4:28:03] Trustee Patrick: an argument to go back to the province that we didn't get to dip the first time. So this is

[4:28:07] Trustee Patrick: dipping only once that we're asking for funding to do this work. The municipalities, the majority

[4:28:15] Trustee Patrick: of them have adopted the base information into their performance indicators or performance

[4:28:21] Trustee Patrick: wellness or a criteria for how they're doing in their communities so that the next time they have

[4:28:28] Trustee Patrick: have to do it it will be less expensive because they've built it into their their indicator reports

[4:28:34] Trustee Patrick: um and i'd be curious if the province uh this program only just expired in 22 was the deadline

[4:28:43] Trustee Patrick: for um the last round of funding that was available at the province that'll be interesting

[4:28:50] Trustee Patrick: to see if they do provide more funding once again to do this work so i i'm kind of curious if there's

[4:29:00] Trustee Patrick: an opportunity to explore or kick that can and ask the province saying you know we didn't we

[4:29:04] Trustee Patrick: weren't funded last time none of these islands we know the results of the housing needs assessments

[4:29:09] Trustee Patrick: are going to say it's worse I think it'd be very surprising that a single island in this

[4:29:13] Trustee Patrick: this region comes back with oh it's all better now I think we're going to find it's all worse

[4:29:20] Trustee Patrick: and that we're taking a region that already is the most expensive to develop any housing and

[4:29:25] Trustee Patrick: having to spend more money to report to the province on it so I think we could make a really

[4:29:29] Trustee Patrick: darn good argument that um that this collection of islands would benefit from the province funding

[4:29:37] Trustee Patrick: this to be done well um and i think there is some conversation to have on you know some of the

[4:29:48] Trustee Patrick: supplemental information some of the supplemental information might be just to develop those

[4:29:52] Trustee Patrick: performance indicators so that we do start collecting that data so that we don't get

[4:29:56] Trustee Patrick: caught up in the next five years of having to do

[4:29:59] Trustee Patrick: Thank you.

[4:30:00] Trustee Patrick: this again um as so dramatic so is it possible to explore a provincial funding request i think we

[4:30:08] Trustee Patrick: could build a strong case uh

[4:30:13] Voice 2: through the chair i could certainly put out a few calls i honestly i

[4:30:18] Voice 2: can't think of whom specifically to call and target and request those funds but um if anybody

[4:30:23] Voice 2: has any leads or any ideas i can certainly pull my team and we can go from there but um i you know

[4:30:28] Voice 2: generally if funds are available they they indicate they're available we usually when we

[4:30:33] Voice 2: ask for things we usually don't get them that's my experience but um it's it's always worth the

[4:30:37] Voice 2: crack and i i hear what you're saying well

[4:30:39] Trustee Patrick: we have a section in the act that we get to make

[4:30:41] Trustee Patrick: recommendations so uh we should pull that one out uh trustee boland uh

[4:30:47] Voice 12: yeah i agree and it is it

[4:30:50] Voice 12: aligns with you know the short intro i was going to give to uh the funding model that i believe

[4:30:58] Voice 12: exists so both the act the regulations and the protocol agreement that the ministry has with

[4:31:07] Voice 12: the islands trust speaks over and over and over again to the fact that the trust will be funded

[4:31:15] Voice 12: to undertake planning you know growth management um you know creation of the trust policy statement

[4:31:24] Voice 12: I mean, it's very, very specific. And I don't see why we shouldn't go directly to the province and make the case, as Laura has suggested, which is we didn't get any funding to date.

[4:31:37] Voice 12: And furthermore, this act, these regulations and the protocol agreement you have with us states that you will fund us to do these activities.

[4:31:48] Voice 12: And especially it does say a provincial, if there's a special project that is of particular provincial interest, they will fund it.

[4:31:59] Voice 12: I mean, not guaranteed, but they will consider, they will, you know, enter a dialogue about funding it because, and this definitely classifies as that to me.

[4:32:12] Trustee Patrick: Thank you. Trustee Elliott.

[4:32:14] Trustee Patrick: uh

[4:32:16] Voice 4: thank you chair um yes perfectly aligned with the strategic uh requests to the province to

[4:32:24] Voice 4: revisit the funding formula that ec is um is working on we are tasked with this so um i think

[4:32:33] Voice 4: this is a very specific request it should be part of the strategy um i would love to work with staff

[4:32:38] Voice 4: on this and and have advice from you know you Laura Patrick is a former vice chair who to speak

[4:32:47] Voice 4: to in the ministry we've got UBCM coming up this is both a lobbying component to this but it should

[4:32:54] Voice 4: be folded into the strategic ask to revisit the funding formula I think this is a very good

[4:32:59] Voice 7: angle to take all right so I'm hearing

[4:33:06] Trustee Patrick: one I'm hearing the minimal

[4:33:09] Trustee Patrick: sorry sorry trustee uh trustee campbell i'm

[4:33:16] Voice 16: curious what the ramifications are for not

[4:33:19] Voice 16: doing the study and does that force a conversation

[4:33:28] Trustee Patrick: we have a negotiator amongst us oh i like this interesting trustee cermak happens to have his

[4:33:36] Trustee Patrick: hand up you

[4:33:39] Voice 2: know i that always comes up that question right for whether whatever the province

[4:33:45] Voice 2: tells an elected official to do an elect official doesn't want to do it i think every project that's

[4:33:52] Voice 2: ever come out of the province of course so yeah they they could choose how to penalize uh an ltc

[4:33:58] Voice 2: or the islands trust for not doing the information uh they could withhold uh approving budgets they

[4:34:04] Voice 2: could with like your actual overall annual report they could withhold projects money they could do

[4:34:09] Voice 2: all kinds of stuff is it that important to them unlikely but we all have sworn oaths one way or

[4:34:15] Voice 2: another to follow the law this is the law and you're required to do it so i don't think saying

[4:34:20] Voice 2: i'm going to break the law willingly is an acceptable thing for an elected official or

[4:34:25] Voice 2: staff to do so i'll leave that with you to ponder although i know it's always desirable to to push

[4:34:32] Voice 2: envelopes so uh i'm going to be blunt with you if i may i think the province is going to tell you to

[4:34:38] Voice 2: go take a hike in terms of funding doing what they're telling you is required for you to do

[4:34:43] Voice 2: so i hope you take that with a grain of salt i i really think it's a waste of time

[4:34:48] Voice 2: and i don't think it's a waste of time to say uh we want to get help funding all these things that

[4:34:54] Voice 2: need to get done but i think when all the province is required to do a housing needs report i don't

[4:35:00] Voice 2: they're going to care one way or another maybe there's an argument that they didn't fund it last

[4:35:04] Voice 2: time maybe not but i hope you don't mind my being as blunt as i can with you on that one um i just

[4:35:10] Voice 2: don't think that they're going to have any sympathy well

[4:35:14] Trustee Patrick: i say for me it's a combination of

[4:35:17] Trustee Patrick: also educating them to our specific needs um that the rural islands already are facing immense

[4:35:26] Trustee Patrick: immense challenges with, with any affordable housing project. And I think this, whether we

[4:35:33] Trustee Patrick: were to be successful in getting funding or not, we could perhaps move that needle further with

[4:35:38] Trustee Patrick: the province, understanding the complications of our region, that we are not an urban region. We

[4:35:45] Trustee Patrick: are not even a rural municipality. We are rural islands that are very challenging. And we,

[4:35:53] Trustee Patrick: we, this group was not funded before. And this group of islands,

[4:35:59] Trustee Patrick: Salt Spring was the only one that got provincial funding last in the grant

[4:36:03] Trustee Patrick: process. So I, what I'm, what I was about to say,

[4:36:08] Trustee Patrick: so I'm kind of hearing that there's general agreement on the minimal

[4:36:11] Trustee Patrick: requirements. There would be some,

[4:36:18] Trustee Patrick: some hopes that, you know, if,

[4:36:20] Trustee Patrick: if a co-op student could be retained that had this, this set of, of,

[4:36:24] Trustee Patrick: of qualities, it would be interesting, but we understand there's high risk that that's

[4:36:31] Trustee Patrick: could, might not happen. But I'm also hearing that it's worth a try to kick the tires on the

[4:36:39] Trustee Patrick: province to say, how about it? Would you, would you chip in? Even if they were to chip in 50%,

[4:36:47] Trustee Patrick: that would be a movement in a direction that would be quite helpful. Am I, is that what I'm

[4:36:53] Trustee Patrick: hearing from people generally is that what

[4:36:58] Voice 7: i heard um that's what i heard yeah so

[4:37:05] Trustee Patrick: how i'm so i think

[4:37:07] Trustee Patrick: we're saying we're not saying we want to ignore the requirement we're just saying we have a path

[4:37:13] Trustee Patrick: in which we would um uh that we were going to

[4:37:17] Voice 7: aim for the minimal standards uh request the province

[4:37:24] Trustee Patrick: and potentially even attempt to get a co-op student that has the right standards and if not

[4:37:30] Trustee Patrick: then it would have been you know it's the

[4:37:34] Voice 7: timing of those asks in what order can

[4:37:40] Voice 4: we leave the

[4:37:40] Voice 4: determination of of whether this would be a consultant contract or a co-op student to staff

[4:37:46] Voice 4: or do we need to specify that in the resolution

[4:37:49] Trustee Patrick: so we could say option three ask the staff ask the

[4:37:54] Trustee Patrick: and also but also make an ask to the province um

[4:38:00] Voice 4: so i would suggest oh option

[4:38:04] Voice 4: three to

[4:38:06] Voice 4: minimal requirements using a contractor or or

[4:38:10] Voice 4: yeah a co-op student and and then a second

[4:38:16] Voice 4: resolution would be advance the request to executive committee that um housing needs

[4:38:26] Voice 4: needs assessments uh request for

[4:38:30] Voice 4: funding yeah yeah request for support to conduct housing

[4:38:34] Voice 4: needs assessment um be considered in the strategy um for revisiting the funding formula or something

[4:38:42] Voice 4: I think those are two separate resolutions but it would be great to have direction from RPC

[4:38:47] Voice 4: that this might be a good place to lobby the the provincial government I don't know I'm new to all

[4:38:54] Trustee Patrick: all this it's just it's sounding good okay there's a good case to be made here because we did not

[4:39:01] Trustee Patrick: receive any funding um trustee

[4:39:05] Voice 12: bolin i can just read you so so just a point uh you know when you

[4:39:11] Voice 12: talk about the funding formula that funding formula refers to what is called the unconditional grant

[4:39:17] Voice 12: so that what we're talking about here is a whole other section which is conditional grants

[4:39:23] Voice 12: and it's just what you know we just should be careful to distinguish because under the

[4:39:30] Voice 12: conditional grants it says conditional grants to the islands trust are and this is one of many

[4:39:37] Voice 12: line items you know planning grants to study and plan activities of local governments that have

[4:39:43] Voice 12: special significance to the province and that is the local government grants regulations and it's

[4:39:50] Voice 12: a section explicitly about the islands trust it is not about you know municipalities etc in general

[4:39:57] Voice 12: they they do the general and then they go to and furthermore for the islands trust this is the deal

[4:40:03] Voice 12: and they say planning grants to study and plan activities that have special significance to the

[4:40:09] Voice 12: province so i think we have an opportunity to make a good case and to say that they should

[4:40:15] Voice 12: they should fund this on a conditional grant basis it's

[4:40:20] Voice 4: it's part of a coordinated strategy

[4:40:22] Voice 4: so it's going to work in alignment with the other pieces it's not just asking

[4:40:27] Voice 4: give us funding but

[4:40:29] Voice 4: this forms part of a strategy

[4:40:32] Voice 4: to request provincial support for the work of the islands trusted

[4:40:36] Voice 4: how that's how that's done whether conditional grants unconditional grants it might be a one-time

[4:40:43] Voice 4: grant like the reconciliation um grant to my understanding

[4:40:48] Trustee Patrick: yeah oh uh director sir mac

[4:40:53] Voice 2: correct me if i'm wrong members of the ec did not director mother have a conversation with ec about

[4:41:00] Voice 2: that topic of um where the history of um that mou that uh trustee boland was talking about

[4:41:07] Voice 2: and why it came into existence or was that even a trust council um but i thought that conversation

[4:41:12] Voice 2: have been sort of explained that it came through when they required official community plans and

[4:41:17] Voice 2: they were funneling money for that way and that MOU has really been

[4:41:22] Voice 2: dormant ever since now so

[4:41:24] Voice 2: granted it's there it's worth exploiting however I think the conversation to go from where we are

[4:41:30] Voice 2: to where you're talking about going and leveraging this piece of information in the in between

[4:41:35] Voice 2: I think I think you're you're putting too many eggs in a basket to be honest

[4:41:40] Voice 2: it's certainly you want to get that funding certainly encourage you to have

[4:41:43] Voice 2: those discussions but I don't see really how that funding formula and this

[4:41:48] Voice 2: housing needs assessments are so related and so my recommendation would certainly

[4:41:53] Voice 2: be to continue at least put this aside you've got till March to decide if this

[4:41:59] Voice 2: funding will be applied or not and you can withdraw it in March but you're

[4:42:04] Voice 2: making an assumption that you'll know an answer by the end of March and certainly

[4:42:07] Voice 2: Certainly, I would say anybody with experience with the province, when they move, they move super quick, but generally they don't move at all, and you probably won't have an answer.

[4:42:15] Voice 2: So I'm just worried that you're not going to put funding here.

[4:42:17] Voice 2: You're going to put yourself at risk, all for a maybe.

[4:42:23] Trustee Patrick: Director Cermak, I think you're hearing that if a motion gets made that we're going to say move forward the project, but there's also going to be add this to the – so it's going to be a both, not an either or.

[4:42:35] Trustee Patrick: I'm getting excited.

[4:42:36] Voice 1: is

[4:42:36] Trustee Patrick: is what i'm what i'm hearing here um that we have the ability to make a good case and we should

[4:42:44] Trustee Patrick: try um and the downside is we educate the province on our challenges of being housing on islands um

[4:42:52] Trustee Patrick: so i think it fits into a lot of advocacy work that we need to do with the province and the

[4:42:57] Trustee Patrick: bonus would be we get some money out of it hopefully hopefully if we don't we got some

[4:43:05] Trustee Patrick: education out of it to them so

[4:43:08] Voice 4: are we close to a resolution because i i think so pretty sure

[4:43:12] Voice 4: i'm hearing support that for option three and yes tied to the budget that is listed 110 000

[4:43:24] Voice 4: or sorry um so so for me it would be the rpc direct staff to update the northern and southern

[4:43:37] Voice 4: southern gulf islands how they need reports to minimal requirements i

[4:43:41] Voice 5: think it's forward the

[4:43:41] Voice 5: business is it for

[4:43:42] Trustee Patrick: the business case for

[4:43:44] Voice 4: the business case yeah

[4:43:46] Voice 7: um is that what the motion

[4:43:49] Voice 7: would be i'm sorry inclusion budget case for oh okay we have to pick an option though no

[4:44:00] Voice 7: um are we just running a whole

[4:44:05] Voice 4: business case to fpc i thought we were discussing the four options

[4:44:10] Voice 4: yeah

[4:44:10] Trustee Patrick: no i that's what we could say recommending i think you could say forward recommend for

[4:44:15] Trustee Patrick: inclusion of this was a recommending option three three

[4:44:20] Voice 4: um we're changing the wording to

[4:44:23] Voice 4: minimal requirements using a contractor or a co-op student and then there would be a separate

[4:44:32] Voice 4: resolution if we want to make a request that executive committee consider yeah

[4:44:37] Trustee Patrick: okay yeah

[4:44:38] Trustee Patrick: Yeah. Shoot.

[4:44:41] Trustee Patrick: There's a lot of steps here, but I'm fine.

[4:44:47] Trustee Patrick: I think it's okay to do this motion.

[4:44:49] Trustee Patrick: We don't, we can just do this business case and we'll consider the next business case.

[4:44:52] Trustee Patrick: So I think we can have a separate motion for this business case is fine, makes it clean.

[4:45:00] Voice 7: But do we need to amend, do we need

[4:45:04] Trustee Patrick: to amend the option first on the business case?

[4:45:06] Trustee Patrick: Would that work, Director Cermak?

[4:45:10] Trustee Patrick: We're kind of combining option two and three.

[4:45:13] Voice 2: I think your resolution will do that.

[4:45:15] Voice 2: So when I forward the business case, I'll reflect it to show that, right?

[4:45:20] Voice 2: Like whatever your amended option is,

[4:45:22] Voice 2: I'll make sure I amend the business case before it gets forward to FPC.

[4:45:25] Trustee Patrick: Okay. All

[4:45:26] Voice 7: right. So who wants to attempt this motion?

[4:45:28] Voice 7: Oh, we're making it so complicated. Poor Robert.

[4:45:34] Trustee Patrick: Robert, we can just work it on the fly and then we'll see if someone braves.

[4:45:38] Trustee Patrick: So we're taking the motion that the regional planning committee forward to the

[4:45:42] Trustee Patrick: financial planning committee for inclusion in the fiscal year 2024-25 budget

[4:45:46] Trustee Patrick: budget business case for updating the housing needs reports for all local trust committees

[4:45:53] Trustee Patrick: except salt spring island um

[4:45:57] Voice 7: can we say and recommend and recommending

[4:46:01] Voice 7: option three as

[4:46:05] Trustee Patrick: as amended as as amended yeah and director sir mac knows what that is but she's just adding

[4:46:13] Trustee Patrick: as amended

[4:46:14] Trustee Patrick: per discussion or something if that makes sense but robert how would you do on

[4:46:18] Trustee Patrick: on capturing all that you want to put that up and then we'll see

[4:46:21] Voice 7: if the wording looks all right

[4:46:22] Voice 7: a couple of forwards in there but he'll find that one i'm comfortable with that i'll move that

[4:46:42] Voice 7: if seconded

[4:46:43] Voice 4: trustee borthwick just because

[4:46:44] Voice 4: i'm seeing hands ah sorry just a friendly reminder

[4:46:47] Voice 2: oh yes i

[4:46:49] Voice 2: know it's not a i just i should have put in there except for saltsburg island local

[4:46:53] Voice 2: trust area and bowen island municipality i realized that we should have that in there

[4:46:57] Voice 2: and make

[4:46:58] Voice 2: it clear all

[4:47:03] Voice 7: right trustee elliot

[4:47:04] Trustee Patrick: you're going to need to read this out loud as that's our

[4:47:06] Trustee Patrick: practice when we are sure people are on audio i

[4:47:10] Voice 4: move the regional planning committee forward to

[4:47:12] Voice 4: financial planning committee for inclusion in the fiscal year 2024-25 budget the business case for

[4:47:19] Voice 4: updating housing needs reports for all local trust areas comma except salt spring island local trust

[4:47:28] Voice 4: area and bowen island municipality and recommend option three as amended and i think borthwick

[4:47:38] Voice 4: trustee borthwick had his hand up for somebody

[4:47:40] Trustee Patrick: you're second that thank you very much is there

[4:47:43] Trustee Patrick: any discussion now heads up that we have a second motion about the funding

[4:47:49] Voice 7: request all right i'll

[4:47:53] Voice 7: call the vote all those in favor raise your electronic hands once again trustee lorione

[4:48:03] Trustee Patrick: rioni is the only one so i'll call that uh lower your hands unless she just oh wait yep and then

[4:48:11] Trustee Patrick: are there any

[4:48:12] Voice 7: opposed i'll just ask jesse boland were you opposed yes okay but

[4:48:21] Trustee Patrick: uh carries all right

[4:48:22] Trustee Patrick: thank you so now we were going to attempt a second motion if i

[4:48:29] Trustee Patrick: go ahead

[4:48:30] Voice 7: i can have a go oh sure

[4:48:33] Voice 7: Sure. So I move

[4:48:40] Voice 12: that staff request funding from the province for the Trust Housing Needs

[4:48:45] Voice 12: Assessment, as described in the Urban Matters Report, but perhaps we don't need that.

[4:48:52] Voice 12: No, full stop. The request should be based on the Local Government Grants Act, the Local

[4:48:57] Voice 12: Government Grants Regulations and the Protocol Agreement between the Ministry of Municipal

[4:49:03] Voice 12: affairs and the trust on the provincial funding process i could send this to you if that would

[4:49:09] Voice 12: help

[4:49:10] Trustee Patrick: do we need to have that level of detail and it should it be it's requesting the executive

[4:49:14] Trustee Patrick: committee i believe yeah

[4:49:16] Voice 4: it's not staff that would be it's it's it's to to fold this into

[4:49:21] Voice 4: the strategic request that we've already been directed by trust council um to undertake i'm

[4:49:28] Voice 4: looking for that resolution right now when

[4:49:30] Voice 12: would that actually take place do you know is there is

[4:49:34] Voice 12: it ready to go anyway i move that the executive commission requests funding from the province for

[4:49:41] Voice 12: the trust housing needs assessment full stop how

[4:49:46] Voice 4: about that and we request that executive committee

[4:49:49] Voice 4: consider adding this

[4:49:53] Trustee Patrick: well i think we're recommending we're recommending this be added i

[4:49:58] Trustee Patrick: think the the regional planning committee request uh recommends that

[4:50:04] Voice 4: recommends um add this to their

[4:50:08] Voice 4: strategic request to the province or something yeah includes

[4:50:12] Trustee Luckham: might be a good word includes

[4:50:14] Trustee Patrick: includes okay that regional plan recommends that the executive committee include the

[4:50:22] Voice 7: request for

[4:50:25] Voice 7: or the the funding for the

[4:50:29] Trustee Patrick: funding for housing needs assessments in

[4:50:32] Voice 12: the request from the

[4:50:33] Trustee Patrick: province there we go oops i think you you undo what you just undid um there you go include

[4:50:41] Trustee Patrick: after include robert include there you go the um is it the is it the funds or the the cost of the

[4:50:53] Trustee Patrick: support

[4:50:54] Voice 4: for completing housing needs assessment in the gulf islands yeah or in the housing needs

[4:51:00] Voice 7: assessments financial support for yes financial so after includes financial

[4:51:21] Voice 4: instead of the

[4:51:22] Voice 4: includes financial support for completing the housing needs assessments plural in the trust

[4:51:29] Voice 4: after trust area in its strategic request

[4:51:32] Voice 7: for funding from the province.

[4:51:42] Voice 7: I wish we had a

[4:51:43] Voice 4: list of resolutions to pull from.

[4:51:46] Voice 4: That's all right. We're doing

[4:51:47] Voice 4: it on the fly.

[4:51:48] Trustee Patrick: We're doing a good job.

[4:51:49] Trustee Patrick: So that's fine. Just

[4:51:49] Voice 5: an S on the end of assessment.

[4:51:52] Voice 5: After trust area is in the strategic request.

[4:52:00] Voice 5: within or within within the

[4:52:03] Voice 10: sorry chair i can't the too many people speaking at the same time i

[4:52:07] Voice 10: yeah i

[4:52:08] Voice 10: think i'm losing i'm

[4:52:10] Trustee Patrick: not sure what's

[4:52:10] Voice 10: being said you're

[4:52:11] Trustee Patrick: you're doing great the one thing you

[4:52:14] Trustee Patrick: can so after trust area you're

[4:52:18] Voice 7: just going to say within the strategic request for funds just

[4:52:28] Voice 7: just how's that look everybody love it all right who's going

[4:52:38] Trustee Patrick: to make this motion is that trustee

[4:52:39] Trustee Patrick: boland did you want to make this motion trustee campbell had his hand up trustee campbell but

[4:52:48] Trustee Patrick: they went down again who would uh who wants to make this motion okay thank you okay trustee

[4:52:53] Trustee Patrick: boland can you read that out

[4:52:55] Voice 12: i moved that the region i don't really anyway i moved that the

[4:52:59] Voice 12: regional planning committee recommend that the executive committee includes the financial support

[4:53:04] Voice 12: board for completing the housing needs assessments in the trust area strategic within the strategic

[4:53:12] Voice 12: request for funds

[4:53:13] Voice 5: from the province yeah i'll second that all right any discussion

[4:53:21] Trustee Patrick: see when we do these group effort resolutions we have less discussion

[4:53:25] Trustee Patrick: all right i'll call the vote then all those in favor raise your electronic hands

[4:53:31] Trustee Patrick: and okay lower them any opposed none so that's carried all right

[4:53:42] Voice 7: one more business case

[4:53:45] Voice 7: director sermac okay

[4:53:57] Voice 2: yep sorry a lot of clicking there sharing screens and whatnot okay last one

[4:54:01] Voice 2: is i'll just get to the punchline staff recommend you have a thirty thousand dollar placeholder to

[4:54:07] Voice 2: to continue work on the housing strategy and housing options toolkit.

[4:54:14] Voice 2: Discuss.

[4:54:17] Voice 7: So

[4:54:18] Trustee Patrick: this is just a parking lot number.

[4:54:21] Voice 2: There's because you haven't really adopted this strategy, but it's,

[4:54:25] Voice 2: it's advancing the same with the toolkit.

[4:54:27] Voice 2: You've got a lot of NGOs that are looking for support.

[4:54:30] Voice 2: And if you look at the bulk of the work that's to be done is to help NGOs in

[4:54:34] Voice 2: developing that part of the toolkit and that part of the strategy. So,

[4:54:39] Voice 2: but what exactly that is will be based on the feedback you haven't considered and so on and

[4:54:44] Voice 2: so forth. So the best success we've had to date was because we were able to use some of the funds

[4:54:49] Voice 2: that the RPC had for doing some model by-laws which then we had a staff sort of when we all

[4:54:56] Voice 2: got together and brainstormed updating the housing options toolkit and then we were able to get some

[4:55:01] Voice 2: staffing through Planner Yeomans for a while to actually develop that material. So that found a

[4:55:06] Voice 2: a lot of success in that model being able to give you those tools and like to be able to

[4:55:10] Voice 2: continue that success but not precisely knowing how thirty thousand dollars seemed like a reasonable

[4:55:15] Voice 2: placeholder for us to at minimum have a little bit of backspace that we could secure that resource

[4:55:20] Voice 2: to go from a basically to go from a 2.5 fde to a 3.0 fde all

[4:55:26] Voice 4: right trustee elliott thank you um

[4:55:30] Voice 4: so a question about communication uh and engagement with community um engagement strategies

[4:55:36] Voice 4: is recommended to be drafted within the housing strategy.

[4:55:38] Voice 4: If we don't use that $5,000 in this fiscal,

[4:55:41] Voice 4: can we request that it be rolled forward

[4:55:43] Voice 4: and made part of this project

[4:55:45] Voice 4: so that there's a communication strategy with the toolkit

[4:55:48] Voice 4: or is that a separate piece?

[4:55:52] Voice 2: Yeah, the money transfers through,

[4:55:55] Voice 2: it goes into, I guess, a general surplus

[4:55:57] Voice 2: and then it's up to the budget how it gets allocated.

[4:56:00] Voice 2: I don't think you can carry it forward necessarily

[4:56:02] Voice 2: from one to the other.

[4:56:03] Voice 2: I could be wrong.

[4:56:04] Voice 2: Of course, Director Mobbs is,

[4:56:07] Voice 2: brilliant in that area i am not but i've been told many times we cannot carry funds over from

[4:56:12] Voice 2: one fiscal to the other so yeah so there

[4:56:18] Trustee Patrick: would have to be a business case added but we could

[4:56:21] Trustee Patrick: always attempt a late business case

[4:56:23] Voice 2: especially for five

[4:56:25] Trustee Patrick: is popular never

[4:56:28] Voice 2: done it before well i think

[4:56:30] Trustee Patrick: um i think the engagement piece in my mind is far larger um than what you know what's needed

[4:56:38] Trustee Patrick: but but uh we need to have the conversation on

[4:56:42] Trustee Patrick: the annex of the governance report but see if we have

[4:56:45] Voice 4: the conversation the communications piece is a lot larger and that's why i don't want to see it

[4:56:49] Voice 4: lost and if we're not going to come up with a communication strategy this year i would like

[4:56:54] Voice 4: to add that five thousand dollars into this business case so that we can have some budget

[4:57:01] Voice 4: it to communicate out that's so

[4:57:06] Voice 2: as as you did last term or last fiscal uh you had a thirty

[4:57:10] Voice 2: thousand dollar placeholder of which five thousand was allocated to the communications fund so again

[4:57:16] Voice 2: we're recommending a thirty thousand placeholder which you could easily then allocate the five

[4:57:19] Voice 2: thousand if it's if it's unallocated do you know what i mean so if you have a placeholder saying

[4:57:23] Voice 2: we right so then it'll be up just like we did in april this year we said listen you've got a thirty

[4:57:28] Voice 2: thousand dollar placeholder we recommend you spend it in certain ways and then the rpc sure enough

[4:57:33] Voice 2: passed the resolution saying ten thousand for the housing needs gaps analysis five thousand for the

[4:57:39] Voice 2: communications and fifteen thousand for the suitable land analysis so that's how you

[4:57:45] Voice 2: allocate so yeah i think actually

[4:57:46] Voice 1: leaving a placeholder might give you that flexibility

[4:57:48] Voice 1: you're seeking yep

[4:57:50] Trustee Patrick: thanks all right then does someone want to make a motion to push this

[4:57:55] Trustee Patrick: push this make carry this forward yeah um it would be a combination

[4:58:04] Voice 7: of the resolution there

[4:58:05] Voice 7: that's now up on the screen i'll i'll make the motion

[4:58:15] Voice 7: go for it i

[4:58:17] Voice 4: move that regional planning

[4:58:18] Voice 4: committee forward to financial planning committee for inclusion in the fiscal year 2024-25 budget

[4:58:24] Voice 4: the business case for advancing and implementing a housing strategy and housing options toolkit

[4:58:31] Voice 4: kit with the associated well no that is the business case

[4:58:34] Voice 7: period is there a second to that

[4:58:37] Voice 7: motion uh it's trusted uh trustee campbell thank you very much any discussion i'll

[4:58:49] Trustee Patrick: just add for

[4:58:50] Trustee Patrick: discussion for last term we did this we carried a placeholder through and um i think well most of

[4:58:55] Trustee Patrick: you were here in march when we had to make the arguments there there was there was quite a bit

[4:58:59] Trustee Patrick: of attempt and we we stuck to our guns and said that this was important and we got through with

[4:59:04] Trustee Patrick: that and it did it did end up being uh helpful so um the

[4:59:09] Voice 4: placeholder not argued down from a hundred

[4:59:11] Voice 4: thousand to thirty it could have been

[4:59:14] Voice 5: our entire budget

[4:59:15] Voice 4: the placeholder carried over from last

[4:59:18] Voice 4: year was a hundred thousand dollars and everybody here argued

[4:59:21] Voice 4: what the heck are we going to spend

[4:59:22] Voice 4: that money on and then we're like oh wait if we don't have any money what are we going to do

[4:59:26] Voice 4: projects with so glad for remembering

[4:59:30] Voice 4: okay

[4:59:31] Trustee Patrick: uh if there's no discussion i'll call the vote all

[4:59:35] Trustee Patrick: those in favor raise your electronic hands all right blow your hands any opposed that's carried

[4:59:46] Trustee Patrick: yay all right business cases as fun as that is so uh we are approaching three o'clock we are at

[4:59:57] Trustee Patrick: at 3 o'clock. This meeting is supposed to be over.

[5:00:00] Trustee Patrick: we have some additional business here we have the biodiversity framework which

[5:00:09] Trustee Patrick: I guess we could defer we've got the governance review that we have already deferred

[5:00:15] Trustee Patrick: what is the will of this committee I really want to have that discussion because there

[5:00:21] Trustee Patrick: could be budget implications if we were to have this discussion what is the will I'm also very

[5:00:28] Trustee Patrick: very cognizant of people's time.

[5:00:31] Voice 7: You know, I unfortunately have to leave at 3.30.

[5:00:35] Voice 7: All right.

[5:00:40] Voice 4: I'm game to

[5:00:40] Voice 4: continue with the agenda for another hour.

[5:00:43] Voice 4: Can we carry

[5:00:43] Voice 7: on until 3

[5:00:44] Trustee Patrick: .30, Trustee Boland?

[5:00:47] Trustee Patrick: I can carry on for an hour or two.

[5:00:49] Trustee Patrick: An hour, or at least we'll aim,

[5:00:50] Trustee Patrick: how about we'll aim for 3.30?

[5:00:53] Trustee Allen: I'll try, I'll just have to make a few phone calls.

[5:00:55] Trustee Patrick: That's all right.

[5:00:57] Trustee Patrick: Director Cermak?

[5:00:57] Voice 2: Could I just pull staff?

[5:00:59] Voice 2: I'm not sure we have

[5:01:00] Voice 2: Robert Kajima and Robert Barlow.

[5:01:02] Voice 2: what's their

[5:01:03] Voice 1: timing look like

[5:01:07] Voice 13: i'm okay to carry

[5:01:08] Voice 7: on sure i

[5:01:10] Voice 10: work until four i can be here

[5:01:12] Voice 1: okay thank

[5:01:13] Voice 1: you both

[5:01:14] Trustee Patrick: all right um do we want to defer the biodiversity conversation and spend the majority

[5:01:21] Trustee Patrick: of our time on the governance review yeah uh trustee zermack

[5:01:27] Voice 2: i'm just getting a text from

[5:01:28] Voice 2: claire saying i can't defer trust council directed input by december so if that's by december you

[5:01:35] Voice 2: You could defer, I suppose, to November, but you're pushing it.

[5:01:38] Voice 2: It's a real quick, please appoint two people

[5:01:40] Voice 2: to the Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework Working Group.

[5:01:45] Voice 2: It's just a real, who wants to be appointed and go.

[5:01:49] Voice 12: I actually found it hard to get to grips

[5:01:52] Voice 12: with what exactly we were being asked, to be honest.

[5:01:55] Voice 12: By the time I had waded through all the...

[5:02:00] Voice 12: I thought

[5:02:00] Voice 12: exactly what is on the table here for us to do.

[5:02:04] Voice 12: What is the action that's being asked of us?

[5:02:07] Voice 12: So

[5:02:08] Trustee Patrick: that's all I want right now is two people to be appointed.

[5:02:11] Voice 2: Correct.

[5:02:12] Trustee Patrick: So, all right.

[5:02:14] Trustee Patrick: I see

[5:02:14] Voice 2: Claire has popped up in there.

[5:02:17] Trustee Patrick: So, I mean, we could defer the conversation to understand this further or ask the two people to report.

[5:02:23] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Borthwick?

[5:02:24] Trustee Patrick: Oh, Trustee Allen.

[5:02:26] Voice 15: Well, yeah.

[5:02:27] Voice 15: So Alex is already on this working group from the TPC.

[5:02:32] Voice 15: so you may be able to speak to it to some degree thank

[5:02:36] Trustee Allen: you go ahead trustee alan well i thought

[5:02:39] Trustee Allen: sue ellen faster and i were appointed so i'm not sure am i losing my mind it was a long day but

[5:02:45] Trustee Allen: it

[5:02:47] Voice 12: says from the

[5:02:48] Voice 2: trust programs committee yeah

[5:02:50] Voice 12: you were appointed from trust programs

[5:02:52] Voice 12: and this is from regional planning but to

[5:02:55] Voice 7: be honest somebody

[5:02:56] Voice 12: tell me where in the pdf what

[5:02:58] Voice 12: What page, which paragraph it says, here's the deal.

[5:03:02] Voice 12: This is what we're asking you.

[5:03:03] Voice 12: Because I've read through it and I can see the whole timeline, but I can't get to the bottom line for today.

[5:03:10] Voice 12: I can't see it.

[5:03:11] Trustee Allen: I'll tell you, trustee Boland, it's on page 64.

[5:03:16] Trustee Allen: And it's just under the background.

[5:03:18] Trustee Allen: It's just basically, we're actually right in the first paragraph.

[5:03:22] Trustee Allen: It's a purpose.

[5:03:23] Trustee Allen: But there is a motion passed saying, I think it was Sue Ellen that brought it up.

[5:03:28] Trustee Allen: I'm not sure somebody did.

[5:03:30] Trustee Allen: To consider the Montreal Charter of Biodiversity Impacts, the work of Island's Trust, and share their thinking back with Trust Council in this calendar year.

[5:03:38] Trustee Patrick: I got it. It's on the top of page 65.

[5:03:41] Trustee Patrick: And do we have two volunteers? That'll make it easier.

[5:03:44] Trustee Patrick: Do we have two people who want to volunteer from this committee to be on this working group?

[5:03:54] Voice 7: Look at the hands go up.

[5:03:58] Voice 7: It's going

[5:03:58] Trustee Allen: to be really fun.

[5:03:59] Trustee Patrick: It's going to be fun. You have to work with Trustee Allen.

[5:04:02] Trustee Allen: You can't see his hand.

[5:04:06] Trustee Allen: um short and quick that's what i'll say

[5:04:08] Trustee Allen: i

[5:04:09] Trustee Patrick: shouldn't volunteer but i can volunteer is there anyone else that wishes to volunteer

[5:04:17] Trustee Patrick: so we can say we have two people we could appoint i'll throw my hand in there because

[5:04:22] Trustee Patrick: trustee elliot so there we go we have two

[5:04:25] Voice 4: people is there anyone balance out the housing work that

[5:04:27] Trustee Patrick: I'm doing I would love

[5:04:36] Voice 15: to be on it unfortunately I'm really aware I'm going away for a while with

[5:04:41] Voice 15: my my sister's getting married and I have to go to the UK for a chunk of that time in the middle

[5:04:46] Voice 15: that I think just I won't be as useful as I could be I'm very interested though all

[5:04:52] Trustee Patrick: right so here

[5:04:55] Trustee Patrick: I'm going to say the motion, then I guess we have to say that the regional, I move that the regional planning committee appoint myself, Laura Patrick, and Toby Elliott, our trustees, to the working, the biodiversity, or the working group of the Kahn-Ming Montreal Protocol.

[5:05:17] Voice 7: I'll second.

[5:05:18] Voice 7: second all

[5:05:20] Trustee Patrick: right and any anyone opposed i'm gonna throw that in there raise your no one raised their

[5:05:27] Trustee Patrick: hands so it looks like we

[5:05:29] Voice 4: are opposed you're on the working group

[5:05:30] Trustee Patrick: that's right if you oppose it

[5:05:33] Trustee Patrick: you replace one of us so uh that carries um a little different way to get there so i like the

[5:05:40] Voice 15: way you do politics toby oh

[5:05:45] Trustee Patrick: we had to

[5:05:46] Voice 15: do that you get voluntold

[5:05:47] Trustee Patrick: all right let's get on to this

[5:05:50] Trustee Patrick: item that we've already deferred multiple times the governance review 8.2 it's on page 74 of the

[5:05:56] Trustee Patrick: agenda package we have a report i did ask everybody to read that this is staff's report um i'm looking

[5:06:06] Trustee Patrick: for ideas on how best to go through this i know i've made some comments on the comments of the

[5:06:13] Trustee Patrick: staff from the comments that i had um do we want to go through this following the table that's in

[5:06:20] Trustee Patrick: in this report, would that be useful?

[5:06:23] Trustee Allen: No.

[5:06:25] Trustee Allen: No?

[5:06:25] Trustee Allen: Sorry, that's gonna take forever, a long time.

[5:06:28] Trustee Patrick: Well, what's your suggestion?

[5:06:29] Trustee Allen: I think maybe under each particular category,

[5:06:33] Trustee Allen: see if anybody has any comments or questions,

[5:06:35] Trustee Allen: just zoom on. Sure.

[5:06:37] Trustee Patrick: I'm happy to do that.

[5:06:38] Trustee Patrick: I've got a list in front of me that has that breakdown.

[5:06:42] Trustee Patrick: First being official community plans.

[5:06:49] Voice 7: So that would be the first seven items that are here.

[5:06:54] Voice 7: aka bylaws

[5:07:03] Voice 7: okay

[5:07:07] Voice 7: who

[5:07:09] Voice 12: has a question which has occurred to me multiple times and it's kind of one of those

[5:07:14] Voice 12: really stupid questions why do some places have more than one ocp how is that possible

[5:07:23] Voice 12: each

[5:07:25] Trustee Patrick: because of the associated islands gabriela

[5:07:29] Voice 4: has three distinct communities de courcy

[5:07:32] Voice 4: mudge and gabriola and their ocps are quite different and okay much is you know 300 people

[5:07:40] Voice 4: which is almost the size of liskiti so um it's a distinct community i

[5:07:46] Voice 12: do have a comment um you know

[5:07:48] Voice 12: whenever we talk about model bylaws standardizing format etc i know that there are a lot of people

[5:07:56] Voice 12: on different islands who get bent out of shape because they think all the islands are different

[5:08:00] Voice 12: you can't make us all be the same so I think it would be really helpful to be absolutely you know

[5:08:09] Voice 12: anal about making it clear that you're laying out a formatting template you're not going to force

[5:08:18] Voice 12: the content to be the same because model bylaws sometimes are an attempt to say the content will

[5:08:25] Voice 12: will be similar, if not the same.

[5:08:27] Voice 12: And I think it would help people to move towards

[5:08:34] Voice 12: a sort of a common format layout

[5:08:36] Voice 12: if you really separated it from the content.

[5:08:39] Voice 12: I mean, one example would be,

[5:08:41] Voice 12: section 7.2 is the setback from the shore.

[5:08:47] Voice 12: Well, on one island it could be 25 feet and on another 40,

[5:08:52] Voice 12: but people think you're going to tell them

[5:08:54] Voice 12: that you have to settle on 40 you know and I've heard that over and over and I think it would be

[5:09:01] Voice 12: helpful if that was really made clear so in the section the second one it's used the same format

[5:09:09] Voice 12: you're saying and content but it's not the content to me it's just used the same format

[5:09:16] Voice 4: that's in this that's in the comments that it's a template but the content is

[5:09:24] Voice 4: to be filled in by the community yeah

[5:09:27] Voice 7: um

[5:09:28] Voice 4: so i guess speaking as the trustee from gabriella

[5:09:32] Voice 4: island and having spoken extensively with planner chadwick on this the intent i hear from regional

[5:09:42] Voice 4: planning staff is to use the gabriella ocp and lub project which is slated for a full review

[5:09:50] Voice 4: as the pilot, as the test case that would establish here is the process for good engagement

[5:09:59] Voice 4: with the community using the housing toolkit that we're developing and using the regional approach.

[5:10:07] Voice 4: So I believe the intent is to use Gabriel's OCP and LUB review for that purpose. We're the right

[5:10:14] Voice 4: size in which we've got we've experienced tremendous growth and change

[5:10:19] Voice 4: we're also small enough to get extensive community consultation done in a good

[5:10:25] Voice 4: way and so I think that project potentially satisfies two three four

[5:10:37] Voice 4: five of the recommendation this is the direction that I hear we're going that

[5:10:45] Voice 4: that is my intent to to make this uh as as replicable as possible so that other ltcs can

[5:10:56] Voice 4: sort of copy and paste not necessarily the content but the framework and the process

[5:11:00] Voice 4: so that's my argument for ideas

[5:11:05] Voice 12: yeah no i just heard you say framework and i was thinking what

[5:11:09] Voice 12: could be used instead of the minute you say content it rings alarm bells with people and

[5:11:14] Voice 12: And even with me.

[5:11:15] Voice 12: So I would say use the same format and framework for all OCPs.

[5:11:20] Voice 12: That would be that kind of more neutral thing.

[5:11:24] Voice 12: And it makes sense.

[5:11:26] Voice 12: It's just the minute you say content, people think you're going to make us have the same setback as, you know, island, whatever.

[5:11:35] Voice 12: They

[5:11:35] Voice 4: all have the same content areas, like sustainable communities and ecosystem protection.

[5:11:41] Voice 4: protection and so

[5:11:42] Voice 12: those are like

[5:11:43] Voice 4: the big content areas how those are filled in is distinct to each

[5:11:48] Voice 4: community well

[5:11:50] Voice 12: i would call that the framework and the content is that how it's different anyway

[5:11:55] Voice 12: i think our framework would be good um

[5:11:59] Trustee Patrick: what i sort of see in this section is a couple of things

[5:12:05] Trustee Patrick: is

[5:12:05] Voice 7: one is um i think there still could be work done

[5:12:13] Trustee Patrick: on uh on what does combining some of these

[5:12:19] Trustee Patrick: things look like or what is an area plan versus an ocp are some of these associated islands should

[5:12:26] Trustee Patrick: they be their own separate ocp or should they be an area plan and sort of more embedded into the

[5:12:31] Trustee Patrick: local trust area that they're in anyway um you know does that save us any time if it's an area

[5:12:38] Trustee Patrick: plan versus an ocp what does that mean um and i think there's some opportunities for process i

[5:12:49] Trustee Patrick: think if we're looking at framework content all these words to me there's processes what we're

[5:12:53] Trustee Patrick: trying to develop is process and there are some things in this report that that i have you know

[5:13:00] Trustee Patrick: that he says, why do OCP processes get bogged down?

[5:13:04] Trustee Patrick: You know, this is because there's not a clear understanding

[5:13:06] Trustee Patrick: by the public.

[5:13:07] Trustee Patrick: And he said, sometimes the decision makers either

[5:13:10] Trustee Patrick: about the purpose of an OCP.

[5:13:13] Trustee Patrick: And that's leading to expectations

[5:13:14] Trustee Patrick: that some OCPs end up with regulatory bylaws in them.

[5:13:19] Trustee Patrick: I know they cite Gabriela,

[5:13:22] Trustee Patrick: but I think Salt Spring's got the same problem

[5:13:24] Trustee Patrick: and it probably exists in others.

[5:13:26] Trustee Patrick: And so I think there's some opportunity here

[5:13:28] Trustee Patrick: to clean up process so that we avoid these mistakes from happening again where we end up

[5:13:36] Trustee Patrick: with inappropriate content in OCPs. The other thing that I think is not being addressed here is

[5:13:45] Trustee Patrick: whose OCP is this? We probably put an Islands Trust logo on the front of every one of these OCPs,

[5:13:52] Trustee Patrick: but yet we're supposed to be doing things in cooperation with. And we've got regional

[5:13:58] Trustee Patrick: districts we've got improvement districts we got other other major players on some of our islands

[5:14:05] Trustee Patrick: that need to fit under an OCP and I think when we stick one logo on it they ignore it they don't see

[5:14:15] Trustee Patrick: it as theirs and I think there's there's opportunities here to really make the OCP

[5:14:19] Trustee Patrick: belong to the community in a stronger way and I and I'm not certain we're hitting that yet

[5:14:27] Trustee Patrick: yet um there was a somebody was that trustee allen that had his hand up and then it went right down

[5:14:36] Trustee Allen: yeah um sorry i was just gonna raise many moons ago went up many moons like well two terms ago um

[5:14:42] Trustee Allen: jared hodge i'm sure the planners have heard of him he wrote the textbook of planning

[5:14:48] Trustee Allen: way back when and he actually lived in hornby island and he was laura beshaken's stepdad

[5:14:53] Trustee Allen: but anyways he goes went on and on to me about you know your the ocps are way too

[5:14:58] Trustee Allen: they're huge it's ridiculous how the islands are they're way too big and they're way too long and

[5:15:03] Trustee Allen: you got to shorten them and he also and he recommended saskatoon as the best ocp saskatoon

[5:15:09] Trustee Allen: is 145 pages and i think if anything i think it would be really good if we could attain that is

[5:15:17] Trustee Allen: actually have because the reason why we're having to explain to all our community members constantly

[5:15:23] Trustee Allen: i think it's because they don't want to go into that huge you know unless you're a lawyer maybe

[5:15:27] Trustee Allen: it's fun to look at but we could make these things a lot more approachable and way more

[5:15:32] Trustee Allen: user-friendly and it's they're just not and I think we could just this would be a great time

[5:15:37] Trustee Allen: to actually do something

[5:15:39] Voice 7: exciting make them smaller all of them check out Saskatoon probably

[5:15:49] Voice 7: a lot of good examples out there anyway what was I looking here I

[5:16:05] Trustee Patrick: think the key thing that to me

[5:16:07] Trustee Patrick: comes out of this section is would we or should we recommend to trust council that there be a

[5:16:15] Trustee Patrick: strategic objective to update the ocps and land use bylaws because that's a way of i mean we cannot

[5:16:24] Trustee Patrick: get funding for local trust committees to do this work um unless it's done through a

[5:16:31] Voice 7: strategic

[5:16:33] Voice 7: objective and

[5:16:37] Trustee Patrick: i think the opportunity there is if it is a strategic objective but then it will as

[5:16:41] Trustee Patrick: as we move into the corporate planning,

[5:16:43] Trustee Patrick: allow staff to really align

[5:16:44] Trustee Patrick: how they could do this more effectively

[5:16:49] Trustee Patrick: and respond to,

[5:16:51] Trustee Patrick: if we have three islands

[5:16:52] Trustee Patrick: that want to do their OCPs,

[5:16:53] Trustee Patrick: where are the commonalities?

[5:16:55] Trustee Patrick: Where are the savings?

[5:16:56] Trustee Patrick: How can they be done in a way

[5:16:58] Trustee Patrick: to be most efficient?

[5:17:01] Trustee Patrick: Ooh, I got some questions there.

[5:17:02] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Boland.

[5:17:05] Voice 12: I think it would be a really good idea.

[5:17:08] Voice 12: And it circles back to funding again,

[5:17:10] Voice 12: because that protocol agreement

[5:17:13] Voice 12: covered funding of every kind you know conditional and unconditional the whole gamut

[5:17:20] Voice 12: it was set up in the early 1990s and within it there was a small paragraph which addressed the

[5:17:28] Voice 12: fact that they recognized that at that time all the OCPs and LUBs had to be updated and they set

[5:17:36] Voice 12: set up a five-year funding model where they would provide, I think it was 130,000, which is the

[5:17:43] Voice 12: equivalent of 250 now, every year for five years in support of that five-year plan to update the

[5:17:51] Voice 12: OCPs and the LUBs. That's only a small paragraph within that protocol agreement. And that template,

[5:17:58] Voice 12: in my view, could be used again if you came up with a five-year plan or whatever, because they

[5:18:04] Voice 12: They are bigger and more complicated. Went to the province and said on this protocol agreement, we're replicating what happened then.

[5:18:14] Voice 12: 25 years later, it seems reasonable that we should, you know, repeat that exercise and ask you for a similar level of funding again.

[5:18:24] Voice 12: So, yes, I would support making it a strategic objective that we create a multi-year focus plan to review and update as needed all the OCPs and LUBs.

[5:18:40] Trustee Patrick: All right, getting excited. Oh, somebody had their hand up and put it down. Is that you, Trustee Elliott?

[5:18:45] Trustee Allen: No, it's me.

[5:18:46] Trustee Allen: Sorry, Trustee Allen.

[5:18:47] Trustee Patrick: I

[5:18:48] Trustee Allen: agree as well. But I think the biggest challenge is that we do that at all different times of year, different terms. And in each term, something comes up, but yet it's not our turn to have our OCP review that until maybe a few more years later.

[5:19:04] Trustee Allen: And that's what I find a particular challenge as a trustee is that it's just, it's excruciatingly, like here we are just doing a target review, but meanwhile, there's so many other things that I'd love to add on that have appeared in the last four or five, six months.

[5:19:22] Trustee Allen: And it's a real challenge to do these reviews within our timeframes and with funding and with capacity. So I wish the world was easier.

[5:19:36] Trustee Allen: we

[5:19:37] Trustee Patrick: had a comprehensive project that had all of them laid out over a period of time

[5:19:42] Trustee Patrick: whatever that is you might think that times the staff are going five years is not possible

[5:19:47] Trustee Patrick: um it

[5:19:50] Voice 7: lays it out there interesting trustee luckham yeah you know i'm sort of developing

[5:19:58] Trustee Luckham: this notion that um if it's not broken don't fix it um and i'll just note that the fetus island otp

[5:20:07] Trustee Luckham: last updated in 2011 is 54 pages it's not huge by any stretch of the imagination that includes a lot

[5:20:18] Trustee Luckham: of repetition um but you know the the theta solid ocp doesn't really need any kind of an overhaul

[5:20:27] Trustee Luckham: it might need a few couple of amendments because there were mistakes that were made

[5:20:32] Trustee Luckham: in 2011, that were not incorporated. But the world hasn't changed since then. And I think if

[5:20:40] Trustee Luckham: there's one thing that creates a lot of anxiety in the islands, it's somebody talking about an

[5:20:47] Trustee Luckham: OCP review, because it means for some reason, you're going to be changing something that's

[5:20:51] Trustee Luckham: going to affect individuals. And I don't necessarily agree that all OCPs need to be

[5:20:57] Trustee Luckham: be reviewed. If they're not broken, why fix them? And I think about the Associated Islands here,

[5:21:03] Trustee Luckham: Reed Island, we actually managed to get that particular community of people to appreciate

[5:21:09] Trustee Luckham: why it is that they needed an OCP, and that it was going to protect some of their inherent values.

[5:21:14] Trustee Luckham: And so they came along with that, and it was very successful. And to tell you the truth,

[5:21:21] Trustee Luckham: it doesn't need amending. We protected the values that the ongoing generations

[5:21:27] Trustee Luckham: of the families that have been there all this time don't require it. And I suspect that there

[5:21:32] Trustee Luckham: are other places that the OCPs don't necessarily need fixing. Maybe the major islands do, where

[5:21:38] Trustee Luckham: there's more significant growth, but certainly a lot of the smaller islands, and certainly there's

[5:21:46] Trustee Luckham: some that haven't been done in a long time that need to be done now. But I don't know that we

[5:21:50] Trustee Luckham: need to really necessarily consider doing everybody. And of course, that is going to take,

[5:21:55] Trustee Luckham: I would suggest a minimum of six or more years, which is certainly more than one term, to be able to accomplish that round-robin approach.

[5:22:05] Trustee Luckham: There you go.

[5:22:06] Trustee Patrick: Well, I think the recommendations in here were clear that the priority was to be given to the islands that are experiencing growth and change, not just update them for the sake of updating.

[5:22:16] Trustee Patrick: But anyway, Trustee Boland.

[5:22:19] Voice 12: I was going to say pretty much that.

[5:22:21] Voice 12: I mean, it wasn't we will do them whether they need to be done or not.

[5:22:25] Voice 12: but even creating a matrix where you establish like this one is okay you get a pass mark don't

[5:22:32] Voice 12: keep revisiting it it's fine and that would be helpful and i'd like to say that the saturn ocp

[5:22:39] Voice 12: is 55 pages well

[5:22:43] Trustee Patrick: i think the ocp project also included sort of a health health assessment of

[5:22:47] Trustee Patrick: the state of the ocps was i not correct so to me there is there's an overall project that has

[5:22:53] Trustee Patrick: process associated with it and um um and i think what we've had is historically the ocp projects

[5:23:01] Trustee Patrick: are being prioritized by who screams the loudest and that there's potentially an opportunity for

[5:23:08] Trustee Patrick: a project that aligns the priorities based on a process that makes sense of uh what what they're

[5:23:16] Trustee Patrick: needed um oops i see trustee luckham's hands up oh

[5:23:22] Voice 7: and he's muted i

[5:23:25] Trustee Luckham: certainly agree with what was

[5:23:27] Trustee Luckham: said earlier about a framework um that should be the same throughout the trust area that's

[5:23:33] Trustee Luckham: that's something we could definitely work towards in the long run but i think that one of the most

[5:23:38] Trustee Luckham: significant things is to have a common set of definitions and ensure that the language that

[5:23:43] Trustee Luckham: we use including and excluding and all that sort of stuff also be the same so that planning staff

[5:23:50] Trustee Luckham: can move around the trust area and not have to reinterpret every ocp because that is is time

[5:23:55] Trustee Luckham: consuming and also the public um often compare ocps to ocps and it would be better if they were

[5:24:02] Trustee Luckham: more similar than they are presently different thank you all

[5:24:08] Trustee Patrick: right i guess my question would

[5:24:09] Trustee Patrick: would be to staff who have made some comments um would you see any benefits of looking at this from

[5:24:15] Trustee Patrick: an overall process rather than just waiting for a local trust committee just to say they want to do

[5:24:23] Trustee Patrick: one would there be any benefits of looking at this holistically and coming up with a like your

[5:24:28] Trustee Patrick: recommendation of who needs to be done first second third fourth fifth sixth yes

[5:24:34] Voice 13: uh chair uh

[5:24:35] Voice 13: So we did present a kind of a matrix with the, I think it was called the health of OCPs

[5:24:41] Voice 13: and land use bylaws, and it included the dates they were adopted and if there have been significant

[5:24:46] Voice 13: amendments since they were adopted and some other criteria.

[5:24:51] Voice 13: So that is one tool to suggest which LTCs might want to consider an OCP review.

[5:25:02] Voice 13: view also note that you know you're going to see business cases coming next meeting

[5:25:09] Voice 13: for the ltc's projects and you know there's not there's not a huge lineup of ltc's wanting to

[5:25:17] Voice 13: complete ocp and lub reviews um it was gabriel started this fiscal year and it's going to carry

[5:25:24] Voice 13: on for at least one more if not two more fiscal years but um um sort of echoes what what trustee

[5:25:31] Voice 13: like

[5:25:31] Voice 7: i'm like i'm sad so they're all healthy i wouldn't say they're

[5:25:45] Voice 8: all healthy but no that's

[5:25:47] Trustee Patrick: what i'm saying yeah um yeah i think i think the challenge that we're trying to move to in the

[5:25:53] Trustee Patrick: budgeting process is it would be nice to show that we've got sort of a a rolling project that

[5:25:58] Trustee Patrick: we're guessing every year it's up amount down amount up and down a down amount you know that

[5:26:02] Trustee Patrick: if we had sort of a standard level of effort

[5:26:07] Trustee Patrick: that we were putting toward OCPs and land use bylaw,

[5:26:11] Trustee Patrick: updating projects that kind of helps

[5:26:14] Trustee Patrick: to equal out the budget process.

[5:26:17] Trustee Patrick: So I think that,

[5:26:18] Trustee Patrick: and also your department planning process

[5:26:20] Trustee Patrick: that this is the staff that they're doing the work.

[5:26:26] Trustee Patrick: And so I think that's kind of the mindset

[5:26:29] Trustee Patrick: I'm bringing to the project.

[5:26:31] Trustee Patrick: It's not which islands,

[5:26:33] Trustee Patrick: it's more standardizing the amount of work that's there,

[5:26:36] Trustee Patrick: which I think you're really trying to move toward.

[5:26:40] Trustee Patrick: But it's nudging the LTCs sort of into this process

[5:26:45] Trustee Patrick: so that we're not just having budgets up and down.

[5:26:50] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Olin.

[5:26:52] Voice 12: I'd love to see your health dashboard or whatever that you had, Robert.

[5:26:59] Voice 12: That would be really helpful.

[5:27:00] Voice 12: for not

[5:27:01] Voice 13: you know the November meeting with the business cases

[5:27:05] Voice 12: it would sort of give everybody

[5:27:07] Voice 12: something kind of um tangible to use to think about creating this process where you do a health

[5:27:15] Voice 12: check and then prioritize and set your multi-year sort of schedule yeah thanks

[5:27:23] Voice 13: correct that's the

[5:27:24] Voice 13: intent um the other thing we're doing through this process we're hoping to do this to build

[5:27:29] Voice 13: rebuild I guess you'd say the staff's experience doing OCP reviews because of the last few years

[5:27:36] Voice 13: of doing mostly targeted updates I think it's only myself and Sonia that have actually done

[5:27:44] Voice 13: complete OCP or LUB reviews that are still on staff well

[5:27:53] Voice 7: I think I think

[5:27:53] Trustee Patrick: some of the challenge

[5:27:54] Trustee Patrick: and I know from my experience of chairing North Pender is well I think focused reviews are really

[5:28:01] Trustee Patrick: the reality going forward watching other communities other municipalities that

[5:28:05] Trustee Patrick: doing full reviews should only be reserved for I guess large significant circumstances

[5:28:13] Trustee Patrick: but generally they're focused but as we move to the template because that's what happened in North

[5:28:18] Trustee Patrick: Pender was we had a focused land use bylaw review but we were updated in the template

[5:28:25] Trustee Patrick: and it really confused the community because they they just now they were like well where's

[5:28:31] Trustee Patrick: that piece that we talked about and you know it became a real focus of the conversation when it

[5:28:36] Trustee Patrick: was um to them it looked like a whole brand new land use bylaw review when we upgraded a template

[5:28:43] Trustee Patrick: on that so it's things we have to be aware of as we go through and i think making that that's

[5:28:50] Trustee Patrick: probably more the expectations of the project that you know this is this is what's going to happen

[5:28:54] Trustee Patrick: and how do we track that information

[5:28:57] Voice 7: yeah um okay we'll

[5:29:03] Trustee Patrick: keep on moving through as our discussions

[5:29:05] Trustee Patrick: we're going to use up all our time here uh land use bylaws section is the next piece here

[5:29:11] Trustee Patrick: 8 through 11 i think it really mimics what we just talked about i think we kind of combined it

[5:29:17] Trustee Patrick: any other comments that's

[5:29:26] Voice 7: not me purring sorry i've got a very loud cat not seeing comments

[5:29:37] Voice 7: the next section then was the model bylaws which is 12 and 13 so i know i'm

[5:29:50] Voice 7: sorry go ahead nope

[5:29:52] Voice 7: This is

[5:29:52] Voice 4: a really interesting subject, and I think it.

[5:30:00] Voice 4: was russ who said this was in a this was a direction that was attempted and we don't

[5:30:06] Voice 4: understand why there is an uptake um and so i'd like to know does staff have any information as

[5:30:14] Voice 4: to why model bylaws are not um

[5:30:17] Voice 7: being implemented oops i don't i don't see

[5:30:33] Trustee Patrick: staff jumping in there

[5:30:34] Trustee Patrick: but

[5:30:34] Voice 7: I got three

[5:30:35] Trustee Patrick: hands.

[5:30:36] Voice 13: Go ahead, there you go, Robert.

[5:30:39] Voice 13: So when model bylaws,

[5:30:42] Voice 13: usually it's an issue that arises

[5:30:44] Voice 13: and it's referred to our regional plan,

[5:30:50] Voice 13: to the regional planning committee

[5:30:51] Voice 13: to develop a model regulation

[5:30:53] Voice 13: or a model policy or some model provisions

[5:30:57] Voice 13: to include in an OCP or land use bylaw.

[5:31:00] Voice 13: Given the meeting schedule,

[5:31:04] Voice 13: You know, it can be three RPC meetings go past, there's a finally a sort of a model, a set of regulations or policies are presented and reported back, goes back to Trust Council, Trust Council says this is great, send it out to all local trust committees, it goes to local trust committees.

[5:31:22] Voice 13: In that year that's passed, local trust committees have moved on to other things, they've either addressed the issue through their own projects, or it's no longer an issue or they've moved on to something else.

[5:31:34] Voice 13: So that's my, just my kind of impression about why it was model bylaws, this hasn't been much uptake with them. Where they do work is with administrative bylaws. Fees bylaw, development procedures bylaw, meeting procedures bylaw, those sort of bylaws.

[5:31:52] Trustee Patrick: okay thank you thanks that's great i

[5:31:55] Trustee Patrick: i think what you've written here i think is the way to go i

[5:31:59] Trustee Patrick: think creating actual bylaws in a real local trust committee environment just makes it far more

[5:32:08] Trustee Patrick: robust and tested um and then it kind of becomes almost a model by by um you

[5:32:16] Voice 7: know association it's

[5:32:18] Voice 7: It's been done now. It could be repeated.

[5:32:22] Voice 7: Trustee Luckham.

[5:32:27] Voice 7: Oh, he's muted again.

[5:32:30] Trustee Luckham: I see. I'm trying not to all the background noise here to worry you folks.

[5:32:34] Trustee Luckham: Anyway, Robert kind of captured the essence of what I was going to say at the end there is that time marches on and a certain amount of time lapses.

[5:32:45] Trustee Luckham: And maybe there's even an election in between.

[5:32:48] Trustee Luckham: And the interest in that, whatever that particular subject matter was, wanes.

[5:32:55] Trustee Luckham: And so that becomes a new set of priorities.

[5:32:58] Trustee Luckham: And I think that, in fact, it's a really good comparison or note that Robert made there with respect to administrative bylaws.

[5:33:07] Trustee Luckham: I remember one of the biggest projects was the climate change targets.

[5:33:14] Trustee Luckham: And there was one other one that was mandated that we make these things.

[5:33:18] Trustee Luckham: And they get done because it's sort of an external pressure.

[5:33:23] Trustee Luckham: It's administrative in nature.

[5:33:25] Trustee Luckham: And I would say that it doesn't affect the capacity of each individual local trust committee

[5:33:31] Trustee Luckham: because they come in and they get massaged a little bit and passed.

[5:33:37] Trustee Luckham: The dilemma is, and that's what we see every day, is that you have, and we're all going

[5:33:42] Trustee Luckham: through that process now, you have to decide, do you want a major project or a minor project?

[5:33:46] Trustee Luckham: Do you want one of those things to be something even lower than that, that isn't necessarily a project that's in your mind, but would be a nice to have, or when we get around to it, we'll do that. And we just never seem to get around to doing those things. Because most of the model bylaws are good tools, could easily be implemented. But when we're allocating resources to our projects, they don't tend to be a high enough priority.

[5:34:12] Trustee Luckham: If we had a mechanism to roll those out without it impacting the work priorities of the LTCs,

[5:34:19] Trustee Luckham: I think they would be more successful.

[5:34:21] Trustee Luckham: There you go.

[5:34:23] Voice 7: All right.

[5:34:24] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Allen.

[5:34:26] Trustee Allen: Just to be clear, we're talking about model fee bylaws?

[5:34:29] Trustee Allen: Just

[5:34:30] Trustee Patrick: model bylaws in general.

[5:34:32] Trustee Allen: Okay.

[5:34:33] Trustee Allen: I was just curious about the two trusts, I guess the Liskety and Serturner are the ones

[5:34:39] Trustee Allen: that are holding out on the model fees bylaw, if I'm correct.

[5:34:41] Trustee Allen: and i'd be curious because i think we've got yes we do i think

[5:34:45] Trustee Patrick: that that was another section of

[5:34:47] Trustee Patrick: this report but uh oh

[5:34:49] Trustee Allen: okay we'll talk

[5:34:52] Trustee Allen: about it another time

[5:34:53] Trustee Patrick: make fees fees

[5:34:55] Voice 7: are another spot

[5:34:57] Voice 7: we're getting to it hold your horses all right

[5:35:00] Trustee Patrick: let's keep moving through then we have bylaw

[5:35:02] Trustee Patrick: enforcement staff's comment or more or less this ombudsman review that's coming i just had an

[5:35:11] Trustee Patrick: interesting question is we've talked about all the differences in the you know the in the ocp

[5:35:17] Trustee Patrick: and land use bylaws section where we have 21 ocps and whoever how many land use bylaws have we ever

[5:35:24] Trustee Patrick: estimated the impact on our bylaw enforcement costs for having all these different versions

[5:35:33] Trustee Patrick: like uh you know is is there is that another way to look at reasons to have more consistency is

[5:35:40] Trustee Patrick: because it's costing us more money to enforce bylaws because of the interpretations that are

[5:35:46] Trustee Patrick: necessary i

[5:35:51] Voice 7: was looking at them i'll take

[5:35:52] Voice 2: that question is not that i'm aware of not not from

[5:35:56] Voice 2: that angle of analysis unless robert can correct me i'm not aware of any analysis that says

[5:36:03] Voice 2: we have so many bylaws therefore it takes more bylaw enforcement staff but certainly more bylaws

[5:36:09] Voice 2: requires more interpretation which is understood yeah

[5:36:14] Voice 13: i'm not aware of any sort of quantitative

[5:36:16] Voice 13: analysis of that impact i don't know if it's possible but you're correct stephan it's just

[5:36:21] Voice 13: it's that much more pressure on the bylaw enforcement officers because they have to

[5:36:27] Voice 13: interpret different bylaws um you know across the whole region

[5:36:33] Voice 7: all right i see trustee boland

[5:36:36] Voice 7: Yeah,

[5:36:40] Voice 12: I mean, the complexity can't make life easier. But I actually feel that even in the introduction of new bylaws, which LTCs do willy nilly, you know, the cost benefit of that bylaw and the impact on enforcement requirements is never really discussed.

[5:37:06] Voice 12: It's just another regulation is a good idea, but it's not necessarily if it just overloads the system.

[5:37:13] Voice 12: I've had people recently say to me, there's nothing as infuriating as being relatively law abiding and seeing other things going on that are not enforced against.

[5:37:26] Voice 12: And I'm not saying that we should just allow people to do anything, but, you know, prioritizing resources against really egregious things.

[5:37:35] Voice 12: and i think we do create bylaws for things that don't necessarily need bylaws you know common

[5:37:42] Voice 12: sense might prevail anyway just my take but i do think i don't know how the bylaw officers

[5:37:49] Voice 12: manage to keep it all in their heads because it is very very

[5:37:54] Voice 12: i

[5:37:54] Voice 8: assume

[5:37:56] Trustee Patrick: they look at the books i hope uh trust up trustee allen's hand was up it's down

[5:38:01] Trustee Patrick: Oh, no, it's up. Sorry.

[5:38:04] Trustee Allen: Yeah, I was just going to throw a follow-up on Trustee Boland.

[5:38:07] Trustee Allen: When it were me, we've had the proactive enforcement on permitted vacation rentals,

[5:38:13] Trustee Allen: and it's just not being enough.

[5:38:16] Trustee Allen: Not enough is being done at all.

[5:38:18] Trustee Allen: Not enough is being done at all.

[5:38:22] Trustee Allen: And people I'm getting from community members, you know, I can go online,

[5:38:29] Trustee Allen: I can see all the ones that are illegal, and why aren't they doing something?

[5:38:32] Trustee Allen: and and uh and in the meantime you hear about some other issue being brought up that wasn't proactive

[5:38:38] Trustee Allen: that um the violent enforcement officers you know coming to ireland for something like that so

[5:38:44] Trustee Allen: there's a kind of a a dichotomy in terms of what they choose to go after and not after and i i've

[5:38:53] Trustee Allen: had this issue with this whole proactive thing and i'm not sure i know chair patrick it's you

[5:38:58] Trustee Allen: you have proactive and vacation rentals in your island and are you happy with it is it

[5:39:04] Trustee Allen: oh

[5:39:04] Trustee Patrick: it's whack-a-mole it's it's it's whack-a

[5:39:07] Trustee Patrick: -mole we need better tools and i know that's that's

[5:39:10] Trustee Patrick: going to be another another discussion coming up here once we hear some announcements from

[5:39:14] Trustee Patrick: the province which hopefully is going to make things easier so okay by law enforcement i guess

[5:39:20] Trustee Patrick: we're going to have a big conversation at trust council eventually when that report is up there so

[5:39:24] Trustee Patrick: So that issue, I guess, is more trust counsel.

[5:39:27] Trustee Patrick: So

[5:39:27] Voice 7: planning projects, 19 and 20.

[5:39:34] Voice 7: I know I have a comment, and that is,

[5:39:36] Trustee Patrick: we only have 2.5 FTE for long-term planning projects.

[5:39:44] Trustee Patrick: Is there any way that we can, you know,

[5:39:47] Trustee Patrick: is this committee interested in, do we make it a,

[5:39:50] Trustee Patrick: how do we get more resources, I guess,

[5:39:52] Trustee Patrick: is the question directed toward long-term planning?

[5:39:56] Trustee Patrick: because

[5:39:58] Voice 7: this comes up you know the question that uh trustee peterson asked you know you can only

[5:40:04] Voice 7: get you can only allocate so much work because we only have don't have a lot of people to do it

[5:40:10] Voice 7: oh well that's something we'll have to think about in priorities so we'll keep moving then

[5:40:23] Trustee Patrick: development applications this

[5:40:29] Voice 7: is 20 this is a

[5:40:30] Voice 7: really tough one oh man not all development

[5:40:36] Voice 7: applications are equal. I guess I have a question. The

[5:40:45] Trustee Patrick: staff have moved toward delegated authority

[5:40:50] Trustee Patrick: for development permits. When will we expect to see process for potential delegated authority

[5:40:59] Trustee Patrick: for minor

[5:41:00] Voice 7: DVPs? Is there a timing associated with that? Not that

[5:41:08] Voice 13: I'm aware of. Stefan, do you have

[5:41:09] Voice 13: any no

[5:41:12] Voice 2: um i'm aware when heather cower was with us that was going to be one of her next projects

[5:41:18] Voice 2: with us and when she left she kind of took that project with her and as we all scrambled to get

[5:41:23] Voice 2: myself in place and two new rpms that has hasn't been picked up since it is certainly on my to-do

[5:41:28] Voice 2: list um and but as we get our our two latest rpms you know firmly grounded which i'd argue they're

[5:41:36] Voice 2: you know they are somewhat now um this could be picked up again but there's no there's no timeline

[5:41:41] Voice 2: for it but it's certainly we're aware that um development very variance permits may be delegated

[5:41:47] Voice 2: via bylaw and as long as we interpret what minor means and i think that's pretty much where we

[5:41:52] Voice 2: stopped when heather left so um yeah certainly interesting getting this going but it hasn't

[5:41:56] Voice 2: been a priority as we sort of gear up trying to get everybody orientated through the you know

[5:42:00] Voice 2: the budget cycle and the so on and so forth so yeah

[5:42:04] Voice 13: the initial priority if i may was on the

[5:42:06] Voice 13: delegation of development permits and developing that trust council policy and the model bylaw

[5:42:12] Voice 13: which is because it's an administrative bylaw so model bylaw is developed and policies to support

[5:42:18] Voice 13: it and uh today two ltcs that i'm aware of have adopted the delegation bylaw salt spring and

[5:42:25] Voice 13: And Galliano and North Pender, it's highly recommended they adopt it.

[5:42:29] Voice 13: And hopefully they will revisit that in, I think it's December, and request that it be brought back.

[5:42:37] Trustee Patrick: I mean, this is just, it's funny, we use delegations for external parties only at our trust council,

[5:42:43] Trustee Patrick: where I notice a lot of municipal councils use internal staff delegations to their council bodies in that use of time.

[5:42:52] Trustee Patrick: Because I think, you know, I think trustees forget about this or don't know about it when it's not, when we talk about it, that there's opportunities to have a presentation to Trust Council about the, you know, the two islands that have done it, what's happening, is it saving time?

[5:43:09] Trustee Patrick: You know, I think that's something we should look at going forward is to keep things active through actually making delegations to Trust Council on various topics.

[5:43:20] Voice 4: Trustee Elliott.

[5:43:21] Voice 4: I would support that. It would probably have to be with a different council schedule, though. We're always so pressed to discuss the matters. But yeah, inter-regional coordination needs work, and we need to be sharing information.

[5:43:38] Voice 4: I was just curious, Robert, does the delegation bylaw need to be accompanied with the DAI development application information bylaw, which not all LTCs have adopted?

[5:43:55] Voice 4: And I'm only recently becoming aware of how important that might be.

[5:43:58] Voice 4: So

[5:43:59] Voice 13: it's not a requirement of delegating development permits, but in reviewing all the DPAs and the various local trust committees, and then recommending those that, if you like, ready for delegation to staff, having a DAI bylaw, having an up-to-date DAI bylaw was one of the criteria,

[5:44:25] Voice 13: along with the actual development permit area provisions

[5:44:28] Voice 13: being up to date as well,

[5:44:30] Voice 13: because what we want to avoid is delegating to staff

[5:44:35] Voice 13: the issuance of DPs where the guidelines are vague

[5:44:41] Voice 13: and uncertain and subjective in the OCPs

[5:44:44] Voice 13: and where there's no development approval information bylaw

[5:44:49] Voice 13: that will be the basis for getting the professional report

[5:44:53] Voice 13: or reports to support that development permit so it's yes having a d having a up-to-date da bylaw

[5:45:02] Voice 13: is although not it's it's not a legal precedent um to giving a delegated delegation of dps it's

[5:45:09] Voice 13: certainly recommended you

[5:45:13] Trustee Patrick: know it's interesting we have a health of the ocps process we really

[5:45:17] Trustee Patrick: should have a health assessment of the development permit areas across the islands trust um like i

[5:45:23] Trustee Patrick: I was surprised. I thought like our steep slope. So it's like, Oh,

[5:45:26] Trustee Patrick: that'll be the, you know, it won't change. It would be the same.

[5:45:30] Trustee Patrick: But then I found out that the base, it was not done on LIDAR.

[5:45:33] Trustee Patrick: It was done on some, you know,

[5:45:35] Trustee Patrick: a couple of guys driving around the island where that looks steep.

[5:45:40] Trustee Patrick: Cause I think there's probably opportunities again for efficiencies.

[5:45:43] Trustee Patrick: If we find certain development area permit areas across different islands,

[5:45:47] Trustee Patrick: if we need to get the LIDAR data and the interpretation or update to update

[5:45:51] Trustee Patrick: some development permits we might be able to bundle the work again and say well we'll update

[5:45:55] Trustee Patrick: you know these five islands because they're out of date uh it'll be one one consultant that

[5:46:01] Trustee Patrick: evaluates the the data and updates the maps um and

[5:46:07] Voice 13: the and the provisions of any of the provisions

[5:46:09] Voice 13: would be easily translatable from bylaw to bylaw correct for a steep slope development permit area

[5:46:15] Voice 13: you know it's likely that the geology isn't going to vary that much that the provisions would vary

[5:46:21] Voice 13: and with sensitive ecosystems yeah the provisions should be pretty close so

[5:46:26] Trustee Patrick: that's a potential

[5:46:27] Trustee Patrick: project it's not funded it's not supported at this time sorry i see poor stuff around god more work

[5:46:32] Trustee Patrick: but i'm just throwing these things out there to put conversations that where we could find

[5:46:37] Trustee Patrick: efficiencies um and whether or not this is something that could help and the result would

[5:46:45] Trustee Patrick: be that maybe more could develop to uh delegate permits if they were brought up to date

[5:46:51] Voice 7: i think we're all

[5:46:58] Trustee Patrick: getting tired okay we'll keep the conversations going we're gonna clearly have

[5:47:03] Trustee Patrick: to have more so or oh funding number 23 trustee

[5:47:08] Voice 7: allen this was your uh two by two to have not

[5:47:19] Voice 7: not share the two that have not

[5:47:20] Voice 13: are north pender and saturn and

[5:47:23] Voice 12: i can't tell you why other than

[5:47:27] Voice 12: that it happened before my term and i haven't had a chance to speak to lee about it and brad

[5:47:36] Voice 12: did bring it to one of the saturn meetings and we deferred it because i just haven't had a chance to

[5:47:45] Voice 12: ask for lee's input so yeah i don't understand i don't have a particular opinion either way but

[5:47:52] Voice 12: i just want to understand their point of view yeah thanks

[5:47:58] Voice 7: and

[5:48:00] Trustee Patrick: this issue is not going to go

[5:48:01] Trustee Patrick: away as we have to you know except we we don't have we need more resources dedicated long-term

[5:48:07] Trustee Patrick: planning uh last year we only we brought in just under 200 000 in in fees um we so i think we gotta

[5:48:19] Trustee Patrick: get clear yet still where you know how we can get more resources to long-term planning um but we'll

[5:48:28] Trustee Patrick: move on

[5:48:29] Voice 7: okay next section is organization 24 and 25. um go ahead trustee allen well as a northern

[5:48:53] Trustee Allen: than trustee and being a few terms it's it's amazing it's such a revolving door with staff

[5:48:58] Trustee Allen: from the northern office and if indeed moving it to Nanaimo would help retain staff

[5:49:04] Voice 7: that would be

[5:49:05] Voice 7: a great thing all right I'm sorry I'm just trying to flip through all my notes here I

[5:49:20] Voice 4: would just

[5:49:21] Voice 4: suggest that it would also provoke some reaction in our communities that we're moving to urban

[5:49:29] Voice 4: been centers and there isn't representation on the island so that's a tough call as though yeah

[5:49:36] Voice 4: how

[5:49:37] Trustee Allen: many staff members in the northern office actually live on gabrielle at this particular

[5:49:44] Trustee Allen: time i

[5:49:46] Voice 7: think two versus

[5:49:49] Trustee Allen: well

[5:49:50] Voice 7: i

[5:49:52] Trustee Patrick: think this is a larger issue but i think

[5:49:55] Trustee Patrick: i think it this one it resides on the books i think uh financial planning committee or um

[5:50:04] Trustee Patrick: i i know that this gets reported through julia mobs to financial planning committee

[5:50:08] Trustee Patrick: often on offices and that there's more

[5:50:11] Voice 7: work being done and it is a sensitive issue yes

[5:50:20] Voice 7: okay trustee borthwick

[5:50:23] Voice 4: sorry there's five five live on gabriela that's the answer i think

[5:50:27] Voice 4: okay trustee barthwick yeah

[5:50:31] Voice 15: and i like i i'm definitely feeling the the um

[5:50:37] Voice 15: the results of that high turnover um you know i mean denman doesn't have a dedicated island

[5:50:43] Voice 15: planner and we're lucky to have her day jammer at our rpm doing that but it's uh she's got a lot

[5:50:50] Voice 15: of other things on her plate and we're definitely paying the price uh for and you know i and renee

[5:50:57] Voice 15: was not there when i started either so there's definitely a lot of orientation elements that

[5:51:00] Voice 15: just like fell through the cracks for me and it's it's been a major impact um that said i really i

[5:51:07] Voice 15: really uh hear uh trustee elliott in that i think uh i mean and and knockback from community is one

[5:51:17] Voice 15: thing but but i think it is valuable to have staff who are personally uh acquainted with with the the

[5:51:26] Voice 15: the nuances of island life

[5:51:29] Voice 15: and who are affected by those same issues.

[5:51:33] Voice 15: And that's not to say that anyone not living on an island

[5:51:37] Voice 15: can't possibly fathom how things are,

[5:51:39] Voice 15: like that's not the case,

[5:51:40] Voice 15: but there is a difference and it is valuable.

[5:51:47] Voice 15: And I think, as Toby says,

[5:51:49] Voice 15: I think it sends a message as an organization

[5:51:55] Voice 15: that we are choosing to house our infrastructure where we live um and like you know there's lots

[5:52:03] Voice 15: of reasons that that we've got the main trust office in in oak bay but it's uh it's very

[5:52:09] Voice 15: different even than you know i mean yeah it's just very different so i i certainly would

[5:52:15] Voice 15: like to see us keep our our infrastructure based on islands but i understand that there's

[5:52:20] Voice 15: there's a a trade-off for that and yeah I mean it's not the only reason that that I think we

[5:52:27] Voice 15: have a high staff turnover but um yeah I'd like to see us support our staff in all the ways that

[5:52:34] Voice 15: we can thank

[5:52:36] Voice 7: you trustee Allen is

[5:52:37] Trustee Allen: your hand up again yeah I just want to follow up that I'm not

[5:52:40] Trustee Allen: anti-islanders having the office at all I just remember our CAO alluding to the fact that

[5:52:47] Trustee Allen: but it was an issue in terms of retaining staff

[5:52:50] Trustee Allen: in the Northern office.

[5:52:51] Trustee Allen: That's all.

[5:52:52] Trustee Allen: Thank you.

[5:52:53] Trustee Allen: All right.

[5:52:55] Voice 7: I think staff resources.

[5:52:57] Trustee Patrick: Now, I really think that a couple of these items,

[5:53:03] Trustee Patrick: I think 26 and 27 really is the governance committee

[5:53:10] Trustee Patrick: as it goes through and addresses some of these issues

[5:53:15] Trustee Patrick: are also reflected

[5:53:17] Voice 7: in the other issues

[5:53:19] Voice 7: and the office locations i think we just sort of talked about on the planning so i don't know if

[5:53:33] Trustee Patrick: there's any other questions there up trustee elliot sorry

[5:53:37] Voice 4: no i was moving on to staff resources

[5:53:38] Voice 4: in this uh corporate

[5:53:40] Trustee Patrick: we are in staff resources are there yeah

[5:53:42] Voice 4: the i i hear and i'm starting to

[5:53:45] Voice 4: hear and see and understand the need now for a corporate officer or corporate secretary that

[5:53:53] Voice 4: attends meetings i think we grew from a very small local government in which planners were

[5:54:01] Voice 4: intimately connected with the community and the bylaws and understood our processes and now we're

[5:54:07] Voice 4: not in that position and we're trying to bring planners on from other areas and they're doing

[5:54:14] Voice 4: the best they can but they can't answer questions about process and about history the way robert

[5:54:20] Voice 4: kojima could or someone who's been with the island stress for a long time so i am hearing

[5:54:26] Voice 4: a need for a corporate secretary that would help with the meetings i don't i know there's no

[5:54:32] Voice 4: appetite to keep adding staff um but there is a there's a built-in inefficiency here for sure

[5:54:41] Voice 4: in which planners are being asked questions that are completely outside of not only the scope of

[5:54:47] Voice 4: their profession but the applications that they are tasked with and we're burning them out and so

[5:54:54] Voice 4: um i think this is a structural

[5:54:57] Trustee Patrick: problem there's also sort of this the governance relations or

[5:55:03] Trustee Patrick: government relations with the in cooperation with part of our mandate working with other

[5:55:07] Trustee Patrick: agencies and having that relationship and making sure they are represented at the right times and

[5:55:12] Trustee Patrick: and things of that nature.

[5:55:13] Trustee Patrick: So I think there are huge opportunities

[5:55:16] Trustee Patrick: to improve kind of where we are in the world.

[5:55:20] Trustee Patrick: We've grown, but our structure has sort of remained the same.

[5:55:24] Trustee Patrick: Yep, I agree.

[5:55:26] Trustee Patrick: I think this is gonna-

[5:55:28] Voice 7: Chair Patrick.

[5:55:28] Trustee Patrick: Sorry, yes, Trustee Allen.

[5:55:31] Trustee Allen: I just want to add about

[5:55:34] Trustee Allen: having more specialist planner positions.

[5:55:36] Trustee Allen: I really feel like it doesn't see much mobility

[5:55:39] Trustee Allen: for planners and Islands Trust

[5:55:41] Trustee Allen: as an organization to me at all.

[5:55:44] Trustee Allen: and uh and i hear often that people don't leave for jobs because of money so it's for other other

[5:55:50] Trustee Allen: things and so i really would encourage planning staff well director cermak to look into having

[5:55:57] Trustee Allen: planners having more opportunity to be specialized and more training in terms of housing social

[5:56:02] Trustee Allen: issues environment etc and maybe we would have more people sticking around and and actually have

[5:56:09] Trustee Allen: have that information stay within Biden's trust.

[5:56:12] Trustee Allen: I still have issues with consultants doing our OCPs.

[5:56:16] Trustee Allen: It's all about planning.

[5:56:17] Trustee Allen: That's what we do.

[5:56:19] Trustee Allen: And the more money we can invest in training the planners

[5:56:23] Trustee Allen: to be more specialized,

[5:56:24] Trustee Allen: they might stick around and be more engaged.

[5:56:29] Voice 7: All right, we're just about

[5:56:31] Voice 7: at four o'clock here.

[5:56:32] Trustee Patrick: So I'm gonna wrap up.

[5:56:33] Voice 7: I

[5:56:33] Trustee Patrick: don't know if we're gonna have any summaries today.

[5:56:37] Trustee Patrick: The last is

[5:56:37] Voice 7: sort of the planning reports.

[5:56:39] Voice 7: reports and I think generally I still

[5:56:48] Trustee Patrick: think there's opportunities here

[5:56:52] Trustee Patrick: reports are very different I read a lot of reports and go out there and I see Robert

[5:56:56] Trustee Patrick: Stima you can solve this just

[5:56:58] Voice 13: saying just saying as a manager reviews reports I try

[5:57:01] Voice 13: I cut out you know you see my signature at the bottom of the southern planning team reports and

[5:57:06] Voice 13: I often the reports that go to you have been large chunks have been I've cut out of them so

[5:57:11] Voice 13: So we're trying at that level

[5:57:14] Voice 13: and also looking at the templates staff use.

[5:57:19] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, no, I think that's good.

[5:57:20] Trustee Patrick: And I think let's, we worked hard last term

[5:57:23] Trustee Patrick: to get the you are here graphics in the reports.

[5:57:26] Trustee Patrick: And I'd say they're not 100% yet showing up in the bylaws,

[5:57:31] Trustee Patrick: but to try to help people understand

[5:57:33] Trustee Patrick: where you are in the process of first reading

[5:57:37] Trustee Patrick: versus especially bylaws that are reports

[5:57:40] Trustee Patrick: that are related to bylaws,

[5:57:41] Trustee Patrick: us where are you

[5:57:42] Voice 7: or rezonings where are you clarity clarity clarity no

[5:57:51] Trustee Patrick: i appreciate i do we

[5:57:52] Trustee Patrick: do know and do recognize staff are working hard at addressing um a lot of these issues appreciate it

[5:57:59] Trustee Patrick: really appreciate it um we know we're a complex organization and i think i think it's the

[5:58:08] Trustee Patrick: opportunities of where we can use this committee better like i said we're throwing out the

[5:58:13] Trustee Patrick: the development variance or the development permit.

[5:58:16] Trustee Patrick: So is there a way of looking at them and the health of them

[5:58:19] Trustee Patrick: and trying to bring some of these projects together

[5:58:21] Trustee Patrick: into workable overall projects

[5:58:25] Trustee Patrick: so that we can coordinate around the work better

[5:58:29] Trustee Patrick: and more strategically as we go forward,

[5:58:35] Trustee Patrick: we could be allies, this committee and staff.

[5:58:43] Trustee Patrick: Okay, we really didn't think about priorities.

[5:58:46] Trustee Patrick: we had a good discussion i don't know if we're done with this discussion members do we want to

[5:58:50] Trustee Patrick: have a little more time on this um on this table and maybe come out of this with some priorities

[5:59:01] Voice 7: um i'm just oh sorry

[5:59:03] Voice 12: i didn't put my hand no that's all right keep talking um i'm just wondering

[5:59:08] Voice 12: i would ask staff what would they like from us because they're kind of you know muddling along

[5:59:16] Voice 12: as best they can but would they like us to set priorities or I don't really know whether we

[5:59:23] Voice 12: should just leave staff alone to continue or they're asking us to to say something to them

[5:59:31] Voice 12: does that make sense

[5:59:35] Voice 7: do

[5:59:38] Voice 12: you want something from us or are you happy enough to continue or what

[5:59:43] Voice 12: all

[5:59:44] Trustee Patrick: right I thought I saw somebody's staff hand go up but you want to wait till

[5:59:47] Trustee Patrick: go ahead robert uh

[5:59:51] Voice 13: yeah direction or suggestions is is welcomed maybe one suggestion for the

[5:59:58] Voice 13: committee is

[6:00:02] Voice 13: After November's meeting, you're going to go through the process of reviewing the business

[6:00:07] Voice 13: cases for the major projects that are being proposed for next fiscal year.

[6:00:12] Voice 13: So going through that process might give you some of that, really for the first time with

[6:00:19] Voice 13: the new regional planning team approach, might give you some experience and allow some sort

[6:00:27] Voice 13: of feedback based on that experience.

[6:00:31] Voice 7: Okay trustee Elliott. Yes thank you. I

[6:00:36] Voice 4: would suggest that we I don't know if it's possible

[6:00:40] Voice 4: to table this but bring this back in our November meeting and request that staff update the table

[6:00:48] Voice 4: on any items that we've seen any progress on and we keep this as a running conversation.

[6:00:56] Voice 4: conversation i think now that we're all more familiar with annex one and we've just had the

[6:01:01] Voice 4: conversation about the different implications of each recommendation and i don't feel ready we're

[6:01:08] Voice 4: i don't feel ready to to prioritize anything i think a lot of these are moving forward at

[6:01:14] Voice 4: different paces and i'd like to continue the conversation we have to

[6:01:20] Trustee Patrick: continue the conversation

[6:01:20] Trustee Patrick: because we're out of time um robert the needs to go and record minutes need to be taken so um

[6:01:29] Trustee Patrick: um i agree uh let's let's bring this back on the next you know if we've got time for this now the

[6:01:37] Trustee Patrick: november agenda is going to be crazy um and we can also look at do we just need to you know make the

[6:01:46] Trustee Patrick: the time somehow to have a conversation more deeply on this um do you have something quickly

[6:01:51] Trustee Patrick: there trustee boland

[6:01:52] Voice 12: just that i wouldn't be adverse to having a short meeting sometime to

[6:01:58] Voice 12: deal with some of the things that we've deferred more than once or whatever you know a quick you

[6:02:05] Voice 12: know hour or hour and a half to catch up yep i don't know how you call what you call that but

[6:02:11] Voice 12: anyway yeah yes

[6:02:14] Trustee Patrick: we don't want to have things linger okay guys it's after four we're all

[6:02:20] Trustee Patrick: exhausted and tired not thinking anymore um our next meeting is going to be november 15th it will

[6:02:26] Trustee Patrick: be a full meeting again with more business case conversations coming and the toolkits and

[6:02:32] Trustee Patrick: everything there um i will work with uh i'll get you drag a trustee barthrock into it and

[6:02:41] Trustee Patrick: with Director Cermak

[6:02:43] Trustee Patrick: and make sure we try to really schedule this meeting

[6:02:45] Trustee Patrick: to be effective and if we need to make it two meetings

[6:02:47] Trustee Patrick: we'll have to say that

[6:02:49] Trustee Patrick: so that we can get through the material

[6:02:51] Trustee Patrick: while our brains are functioning

[6:02:54] Trustee Patrick: with that

[6:02:57] Trustee Patrick: is there any other business we have to

[6:02:59] Trustee Patrick: attend to today

[6:03:02] Trustee Patrick: see that's what happens when you wear everybody down

[6:03:05] Trustee Patrick: okay

[6:03:07] Trustee Patrick: with that

[6:03:08] Trustee Patrick: we just need to have a consensus

[6:03:11] Trustee Patrick: to adjourn

[6:03:13] Trustee Patrick: no one's going to argue back so we are adjourned thank you everyone thank you

[6:03:18] Voice 4: for hanging in there

[6:03:19] Trustee Patrick: it's a long day thank

[6:03:21] Voice 4: you chair thank you co-chair

[6:03:23] Voice 4: and stuff you're all great

[6:03:24] Voice 4: thank

[6:03:25] Voice 1: you everybody we'll

[6:03:26] Voice 4: see you bye-bye bye