Islands Trust Council regular meeting, February 23, 2024

[0:00:00] Trustee Gedye: All right. So, call the meeting to order. It's nine o'clock.

[0:00:07] Trustee Gedye: First, the land acknowledgement and the opening call to order.

[0:00:12] Trustee Gedye: I've been chained to my computer and I wish that I had more time to get out into this beautiful country that has been stewarded for millennia by the First Nations.

[0:00:24] Trustee Gedye: And I'm on Bowen Island and that's the traditional unceded territory of the Squamish Nation.

[0:00:29] Trustee Gedye: and their near neighbors, the Musqueam and the Tsleil-Waututh also use these lands and

[0:00:38] Trustee Gedye: waters frequently. So I'm very lucky to be here and I wish I was out in it more often, but

[0:00:46] Trustee Gedye: there we are. It's budget time. So with respect to the agenda, first item on our

[0:00:55] Trustee Gedye: meeting today, there's new items in reordering. So I have two items to add. One is the report to

[0:01:07] Trustee Gedye: the Trust Council that's coming up in March. And the other one is our delegate from the

[0:01:14] Trustee Gedye: Governance Committee to the Financial Planning Committee. And I need a majority vote to add

[0:01:19] Trustee Gedye: add those laura your hands up i i

[0:01:23] Trustee Patrick: just wanted to note a correction i think um item 7.1 we continue

[0:01:28] Trustee Patrick: to mix the governance review and the provincial the request of the provincial review of the

[0:01:35] Trustee Patrick: island's trust and i think we need to clarify that from the agenda going forward we're mixing

[0:01:42] Trustee Patrick: two distinctly different things okay i think the

[0:01:45] Trustee Gedye: way that came up was that we were talking about

[0:01:49] Trustee Gedye: the request to the province and in our last discussion we did or two discussions ago we

[0:01:56] Trustee Gedye: thought that what we needed was to get an update from this council so that's how it I think got

[0:02:04] Trustee Gedye: conflated but if you want to change it we can do that. Trustee Stamford?

[0:02:17] Trustee Stamford: I just want the committee

[0:02:18] Trustee Stamford: to know quick heads up that I'll be leaving the meeting for about 20 minutes at 10 o'clock

[0:02:25] Trustee Stamford: to talk to the MLA about a doc okay

[0:02:29] Trustee Gedye: and trustee Peterson indicated before the meeting started that

[0:02:33] Trustee Gedye: that he also was going to be transitioning so um we'll still have a quorum

[0:02:42] Trustee Gedye: i believe so

[0:02:46] Voice 12: so madam chair with your two items would um the delegation um fpc could that go as

[0:02:54] Voice 12: 8.3 under business other yes

[0:02:56] Trustee Gedye: please and then sorry and

[0:03:00] Voice 12: the report in march um you could

[0:03:04] Voice 12: undertake really under um anywhere administrative coordination you go 6.4

[0:03:15] Voice 12: Okay.

[0:03:16] Trustee Gedye: Yeah. All right. 6.4 to administrative coordination. I also think that we need to, 8.2 is the discussion about ex officio role responsibilities, and I think we should defer that.

[0:03:32] Trustee Gedye: that um we haven't circulated policy 2.3.1 for any kind of in-depth and david marler's on holidays

[0:03:40] Trustee Gedye: and i would like he's weighed in on a couple of emails and i'd like him included so that would be

[0:03:47] Trustee Gedye: and then 6.3 which is a follow-up action list and the work program matrix i'd like to put that

[0:03:53] Trustee Gedye: towards the end either at the end of the open or the after the closed so that we can update the

[0:03:59] Trustee Gedye: matrix once we've had all these discussions how does that sound okay so i need a majority

[0:04:07] Trustee Gedye: agreement with respect to the new items report to trust council and the delegation to

[0:04:12] Trustee Gedye: financial planning is there anybody oh sorry joe a quick

[0:04:17] Voice 6: question um i recall from other meetings

[0:04:20] Voice 6: that there was i i thought it was two-thirds majority to add an item to a late item to an

[0:04:27] Voice 6: agenda but i'm not sure because i

[0:04:31] Voice 7: ran into that

[0:04:32] Voice 6: at pc a couple of meetings ago so i actually don't

[0:04:35] Voice 6: know but i think it's i my recollection is it's two-third but i can't be sure about that i don't

[0:04:39] Voice 6: know so perhaps it could help us with this all

[0:04:44] Trustee Gedye: right i believe it was uh it might have been

[0:04:48] Trustee Gedye: 2.3.1 but i did look it up so i thought it was um i started off thinking it was unanimous but it's

[0:04:56] Trustee Gedye: It's a simple majority.

[0:04:58] Voice 7: Oh, okay.

[0:05:01] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:05:01] Trustee Gedye: So do we need a motion?

[0:05:06] Voice 12: Russ?

[0:05:09] Voice 12: You could just say as amended and by consent.

[0:05:14] Voice 12: And if you're challenged, then you'd go to a vote.

[0:05:18] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[0:05:19] Trustee Gedye: So then a motion to approve the agenda as amended.

[0:05:26] Trustee Gedye: I'll move that.

[0:05:27] Trustee Gedye: Can I get a seconder?

[0:05:28] Trustee Gedye: Kate Louise?

[0:05:29] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[0:05:31] Trustee Gedye: Anybody opposed?

[0:05:35] Trustee Gedye: jamie is that voting opposed that's

[0:05:40] Voice 5: opposed anybody

[0:05:42] Trustee Gedye: else all those in favor um

[0:05:47] Voice 6: if if it's

[0:05:49] Voice 6: not going sorry but point of order i guess uh if if it's not going by consent and you have somebody

[0:05:56] Voice 6: who's opposed doesn't that mean you're supposed to have it open for oh sorry right you have to

[0:06:00] Voice 6: fair enough you have to debate in that okay all

[0:06:03] Trustee Gedye: right so uh which are you opposed to jamie the

[0:06:09] Trustee Gedye: delegation yes all

[0:06:13] Trustee Gedye: right can we vote on the remainder of the agenda going by consent

[0:06:17] Trustee Gedye: all

[0:06:18] Voice 5: those in favor the delegate to the fpc is what i was opposed to all

[0:06:22] Trustee Gedye: right the rest of it

[0:06:23] Trustee Gedye: anybody opposed all right so the remainder of the agenda let's uh open up the delegation to

[0:06:32] Trustee Gedye: financial planning jamie yeah

[0:06:41] Voice 5: i'm quite comfortable that um the financial planning

[0:06:43] Voice 5: committee right now i think it's very important that you know due to the size

[0:06:48] Voice 5: um and tax contribution of uh salt spring island and due to the fact that the other trustee as well

[0:06:55] Voice 5: as our chair from salt spring island are on fpc and there's clearly a division and a pattern of

[0:07:02] Voice 5: voting at our ltc that it's very important that um that the side of the community that i represent

[0:07:09] Voice 5: is part of um of the financial planning when it comes to uh what's happening here at salt spring

[0:07:15] Voice 5: so um i'll leave that for

[0:07:18] Voice 6: now thank you i'm going to step in again with another point of order i'm

[0:07:22] Voice 6: sorry about this and i apologize if it isn't a proper point of order but trustee harris has just

[0:07:27] Voice 6: started to talk about this like he knows something about it the rest of us may

[0:07:32] Voice 6: not so perhaps you know perhaps the chair could introduce her reasoning as

[0:07:39] Voice 6: to why we want to have this on the agenda and then we can have the debate

[0:07:42] Voice 6: thank you Lee

[0:07:44] Voice 7: say

[0:07:46] Trustee Middleton: that was that that was Joe basically covered right I didn't

[0:07:52] Trustee Middleton: have any background or knowledge of this so sorry

[0:07:55] Trustee Gedye: Jimmy and I have talked about

[0:07:57] Trustee Gedye: this so um i as of right um am the delegate from this community this committee to the financial

[0:08:07] Trustee Gedye: planning and very early on um i think it was our first or second meeting we were not included in

[0:08:14] Trustee Gedye: the um constituents of the financial planning committee and we asked trust to reconsider that

[0:08:20] Trustee Gedye: and they agreed that we should be on it and i had said at the time i think that was back in march of

[0:08:25] Trustee Gedye: last year that um i would i was quite happy for the vice chair of this committee to sit on

[0:08:31] Trustee Gedye: financial planning um and uh jamie wanted to do it so that was uh i'm i can't find a vote anywhere

[0:08:40] Trustee Gedye: in our uh minutes and i think that was just agreed um between us that that would be the way that it

[0:08:46] Trustee Gedye: would work what's happened with this budget process the um i'm getting a lot of queries from

[0:08:52] Trustee Gedye: from council here and the mayor and a couple of people that are watching the

[0:08:59] Trustee Gedye: budget process fairly closely that we don't have,

[0:09:04] Trustee Gedye: Bowen doesn't have a direct involvement with the budget process.

[0:09:09] Trustee Gedye: And it's really hard for us to ask questions and catch up and do things sort

[0:09:13] Trustee Gedye: of secondhand. So I had,

[0:09:17] Trustee Gedye: had between Sue Ellen and I, the Bowen trustees, she's much better, I think because she was on

[0:09:27] Trustee Gedye: the executive the last time, but she's much better informed about it and the whole process

[0:09:34] Trustee Gedye: and what is happening with the fairly complicated process that Bowen has in terms of dividing off

[0:09:42] Trustee Gedye: off planning and some of the other services and um but there's no way that we can get her

[0:09:49] Trustee Gedye: because we're past the elections um there's no way that we can get her onto the financial planning

[0:09:55] Trustee Gedye: committee so um i feel like a bit of a sacrificial lamb but um i think that it's important for

[0:10:03] Trustee Gedye: we both have um getting a lot of pressure in terms of it's it's important for bowen

[0:10:09] Trustee Gedye: to have some more direct input so um i have that option and um so i had asked uh jamie if he would

[0:10:21] Trustee Gedye: mind and he likes working on the fpc and and so that's the position that we're in i think that i

[0:10:29] Trustee Gedye: have um some sort of um i can simply say that it's no longer something that thanks jamie very

[0:10:39] Trustee Gedye: very much and say that it's something that I want to take on. I'm not sure that's entirely honest.

[0:10:46] Trustee Gedye: Thanking Jamie is, but the fact that wanting to take it on is a little bit mixed feelings in my

[0:10:53] Trustee Gedye: mind. It's a lot of work, but I think that it's important for Bowen. So that's why I'm bringing

[0:10:58] Trustee Gedye: it up. And there's no representation of Bowen. There's two representatives from Salt Spring.

[0:11:05] Trustee Gedye: And it's something that I think is a little bit more complicated than the normal budget discussions and that Bowen's viewpoint needs to be added.

[0:11:16] Trustee Gedye: So that's the background.

[0:11:19] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo?

[0:11:24] Voice 6: Yeah, I've got a question about underlying all of this is, you know, whatever the merits of the decision, it seems pretty important to know what the formal structure is now.

[0:11:39] Voice 6: Like, sorry, I'm stumbling a bit here trying to find the words on this one, but Jamie was appointed to be the delegate or the representative of this committee on FPC.

[0:11:55] Voice 6: see presumably that was under some kind of authority i can't remember what it was i just

[0:12:00] Voice 6: think that when we if we're going to have this discussion we need to know what the um the

[0:12:06] Voice 6: formalities are in terms of the status of his appointment and what you can or cannot do in

[0:12:13] Voice 6: terms of revoking that delegation if you just choose to do so or whether that requires a vote

[0:12:17] Voice 6: i mean i'm in the dark here and it's unfortunate director marler isn't here but perhaps the ceo or

[0:12:23] Voice 6: somebody else from staff could just sort of unpack the uh the formalities of it so that we know

[0:12:29] Voice 6: like whatever direction we go we know what formalities to observe thank you madam chair

[0:12:35] Voice 6: yep thanks russ

[0:12:38] Voice 12: so i guess the question is i think you're debating whether this goes on the

[0:12:41] Voice 12: agenda for discussion and i'm just wondering whether you feel you're actually having the

[0:12:46] Voice 12: conversation meaning you're doing it or whether you're still debating whether or not it should

[0:12:51] Voice 12: be on the agenda or not so i think that's a consideration to um to make and then once you

[0:12:58] Voice 12: determine that i will then respond to the best of my ability to um trustee bernardo's question

[0:13:04] Trustee Gedye: fair

[0:13:04] Voice 6: enough break it down trustee that's fair i was getting ahead of myself thank you for that cao

[0:13:10] Voice 6: thank you sir

[0:13:12] Voice 13: yeah uh thank you and and this the cao is right we're we're discussing whether

[0:13:18] Voice 13: uh we want to put this on the agenda right now and the other considerations are when we actually

[0:13:23] Voice 13: get to the items okay that's it for me all right

[0:13:28] Voice 12: two-thirds vote uh 50 vote to include on the

[0:13:31] Voice 12: agenda sorry all

[0:13:33] Trustee Gedye: right so you've got a huge part of the narrative i've jumped ahead of myself sorry

[0:13:38] Trustee Gedye: so um any lee yeah

[0:13:45] Trustee Middleton: robert's rule states it's two-thirds um i'm i'm not sure where the 50

[0:13:49] Trustee Middleton: comes from to add new agenda items it

[0:13:54] Trustee Gedye: was in our uh one of our policy documents our policy

[0:13:59] Voice 12: supersede um robert's rules and we adopt a policy at trust council so i

[0:14:06] Trustee Middleton: think i would need to be

[0:14:07] Trustee Middleton: referred to that policy if you don't mind i am i would never run by that rule before to my knowledge

[0:14:13] Trustee Middleton: okay

[0:14:16] Trustee Gedye: um then i think rather than spend a whole lot of time on that um let's uh i'll pull that

[0:14:31] Trustee Gedye: and we will um put it on the next agenda and we'll get the background sorry peter uh thank you

[0:14:39] Trustee Luckham: you've uh said what i was going to suggest because this is not for furthering or impacting the

[0:14:45] Trustee Luckham: business of today let's get on with the business of today thank you thank you all right so i'm

[0:14:51] Trustee Gedye: going to withdraw that new item and we'll sort out the um the process and get it on the next agenda

[0:15:01] Trustee Gedye: all right so back to um any public comments there's no delegations there's no correspondence

[0:15:10] Trustee Gedye: so we're into administrative coordination so i'm going to suggest that the draft minutes of

[0:15:16] Trustee Gedye: the previous meeting um that the motion for closed number 11 and that the follow-up action list be

[0:15:27] Trustee Gedye: approved by consent anybody want to pull any of those all right so um 6.1 6.3 the first part of

[0:15:47] Trustee Gedye: it follow-up action and 11 by consent and nobody interested in pulling any of those for discussion

[0:15:55] Trustee Gedye: All in favor? All right. Any opposed? Thank you. By consent. So that takes us to number seven. So this is the request for governance review to the Province Trust Council review of the 2022 governance report.

[0:16:28] Trustee Gedye: for it um

[0:16:29] Voice 12: madam chair if i might if

[0:16:32] Trustee Gedye: we

[0:16:36] Voice 12: go to the agenda here you've approved 6.1 draft minutes to

[0:16:42] Voice 12: the previous meeting yeah and then you have the follow-up action list and work program matrix

[0:16:47] Voice 12: do you want both of

[0:16:48] Voice 12: those to go to the very end is that what you're asking for 6.3 well they can

[0:16:52] Trustee Gedye: stay together sure i mean the follow-up

[0:16:55] Trustee Gedye: list is our um our heads up in the work program matrix is

[0:16:59] Trustee Gedye: what we're working from okay so 7.1 sorry so in those minutes that we've just approved um

[0:17:17] Trustee Gedye: we talked about a uh subgroup um getting feedback from the trust count this current trust council

[0:17:27] Trustee Gedye: and staff and 7.1.1 is the staff review um that has the draft of that has been included um whether

[0:17:36] Trustee Gedye: or not we should ask the trust council to look at the march 2022 recording the presentation of the

[0:17:43] Trustee Gedye: governance review to that trust council and what our timeline would be if any homework for

[0:17:50] Trustee Gedye: ourselves in the first council and whether or not we should include and involve somehow the original

[0:17:56] Trustee Gedye: consultants so um we've got this staff review um written by our cao who's present um would you like

[0:18:09] Trustee Gedye: to present this russ i

[0:18:12] Voice 12: can um so just for context and i understand the question earlier around you

[0:18:18] Voice 12: know what are we doing when in terms of the titling of these things i think the umbrella

[0:18:23] Voice 12: discussion here is a response to the province or a refinement of the request to the province

[0:18:29] Voice 12: made to Minister Kang originally to the previous minister and now to Minister Kang for a review

[0:18:35] Voice 12: of the governance and structure of the Allens Trust and presumably the funding formula as well

[0:18:40] Voice 12: and then discussion occurred around well let's review the governance review 2022 and

[0:18:48] Voice 12: though governance committee has undertaken some of that analysis and has included in its matrix

[0:18:56] Voice 12: there was the acknowledgement that the conversation hasn't occurred at a wider level at trust council

[0:19:01] Voice 12: and that that should occur at some point to inform your refinement of that request to the minister

[0:19:07] Voice 12: and you were contemplating um for the previous trust council could we fit it in for march

[0:19:15] Voice 12: and this report was provided to you um and associated with that report is the staff have

[0:19:21] Voice 12: never done really a review of both either of the appendix or the substantial part of the

[0:19:27] Voice 12: of the of the document and provided any administrative feedback to trust council or

[0:19:33] Voice 12: any committee and so the management group and myself sat and provided i would say some some

[0:19:42] Voice 12: draft analysis associated with that to give you some context i'd certainly respond to any questions

[0:19:49] Voice 12: um i'd say that the first part of this is that there's some very valuable things in the forward

[0:19:54] Voice 12: of the governance review that don't end don't end up in a recommendation and it might be for

[0:20:00] Voice 12: the governance committee and trust council itself to consider some of those things and to turn their

[0:20:06] Voice 12: mind to whether they want to action something i include a number of examples here i think a

[0:20:13] Voice 12: significant one would be um item five and that is some sort of comprehensive analysis of um

[0:20:20] Voice 12: just you know the the uh it it it was a it was a key um either determination or conclusion of

[0:20:28] Voice 12: the governance report that this type of comprehensive analysis of the building capacity

[0:20:33] Voice 12: the environmental impacts um growth and development on a comprehensive basis really

[0:20:39] Voice 12: hasn't been done there's been various pieces but this might be a consideration for council moving

[0:20:45] Voice 12: forward we talked briefly about the methodology of the report it's a particular type of report

[0:20:52] Voice 12: where you're you're really asking people who are learned people who have an expertise in this to

[0:20:57] Voice 12: come in and give provide some recommendations and opinions and that it's it's that type of

[0:21:09] Voice 12: analysis and a little bit of a backstory on on what was done and what wasn't and then into the

[0:21:15] Voice 12: recommendations and i i think that uh you can go through these or ask any questions these are of

[0:21:21] Voice 12: course administrative considerations or viewpoints in particular i think as initially tasked

[0:21:31] Voice 12: the intention was of the report was to have a focus on things that the islands trust would be

[0:21:38] Voice 12: be able to do from a governance perspective and a number of these you'll note when it's action

[0:21:44] Voice 12: required is a legislative change and that really will be part of what you'd inform the letter to

[0:21:50] Voice 12: the minister to say we've undertaken this work here's a number of things that are that we're

[0:21:57] Voice 12: undertaking ourselves but also need you to undertake and you would list those so that's

[0:22:02] Voice 12: where you see under required action when we indicate legislative change would be required

[0:22:06] Voice 12: required um so that's and some of these are fairly well-worn topics here um we've had some

[0:22:12] Voice 12: in-camera information about them that is one is about the executive committee um elections um the

[0:22:19] Voice 12: inclusion of um co-governance um or uh to have first nations representation at the trust council

[0:22:27] Voice 12: in some form um the inclusion of provincial representative at the allens trust those those

[0:22:32] Voice 12: Those are examples of things that you're going to require some sort of legislative change associated with them.

[0:22:37] Voice 12: I think also there's talk about, you know, what is the relationship of the employees to the Islands Trust versus the province itself?

[0:22:47] Voice 12: There's a lawyer, some advice from a lawyer was provided to Trust Council.

[0:22:55] Voice 12: That's going to need some really significant thinking, I would suggest, both the pros and cons associated with that.

[0:23:01] Voice 12: and i could list two or three um right now but that's a i think that you're going to have to

[0:23:07] Voice 12: engage with the province at some level around um that understanding if you want to change from what

[0:23:13] Voice 12: is is what the province would consider um the way things are or the relationship that's been

[0:23:20] Voice 12: established um under the public service agency much of the report um is is what i would term

[0:23:27] Voice 12: is quite doable in terms of the recommendations hopefully the staff analysis provides some

[0:23:34] Voice 12: indication of what is there was a particular emphasis associated with how do we prepare

[0:23:40] Voice 12: both candidates for their role as a trustee and then new trustees for their role as a trustee

[0:23:48] Voice 12: um and given a lot of work has gone into that process um as it stands it's obvious and it

[0:23:57] Voice 12: isn't reaching the mark because much of this much of the feedback or probably almost all of the

[0:24:02] Voice 12: feedback associated this report came from the previous council's trustees and that didn't land

[0:24:07] Voice 12: um clearly enough so as you approach the next election i think there's options and i think

[0:24:12] Voice 12: they're quite achievable associated with improving that process so I think that's doable so that's

[0:24:19] Voice 12: the orientation and there's some discussion around the office of secretary in here it's kind of a

[0:24:26] Voice 12: signature piece of the recommendations it's been a it's been touched on a little bit by the

[0:24:32] Voice 12: governance committee and it's been elevated in terms of you know what is this and how how could

[0:24:36] Voice 12: we do it I think the the interest in having that type of analysis is going to help you

[0:24:42] Voice 12: the report itself refers to what could be some potential associated with this position

[0:24:49] Voice 12: but as described right now it's you're really paying a fair amount of money for the for the

[0:24:55] Voice 12: actual listed examples or responsibilities that exist at the trust right now so I think there

[0:25:01] Voice 12: you'd want to undertake some refinement and you'd also want to look at you know your relative

[0:25:07] Voice 12: authorities associated with both appointment and hiring I think there might be a distinction

[0:25:12] Voice 12: there that you're going to want to lean into as you consider this. And then finally, we get to

[0:25:18] Voice 12: the land use planning question. You know, I think the staff was roundly impressed with the Appendix

[0:25:24] Voice 12: 1. And I think that the chart here we had developed, I believe it's gone to Regional

[0:25:32] Voice 12: Planning Committee. And it talks about where we can be more efficient in our service, where the

[0:25:39] Voice 12: the focus of the trust probably should be from a land use planning perspective there's a lag

[0:25:44] Voice 12: between the number of ocps that um need amendment and are on the docket um there's talk about uh

[0:25:52] Voice 12: the offices uh salt spring um gabriela office um some refinements and recommendations associated

[0:26:00] Voice 12: with that um but taking uh indeed the idea that having a five-year target for ocp development

[0:26:07] Voice 12: and land use bylaw um development and updating would really be the bulk of the work of the

[0:26:13] Voice 12: islands trust if we put that into place so um yeah with that i would say that this is you know a

[0:26:19] Voice 12: quick three page um analysis it's it's not particularly deep but we wanted to be on record

[0:26:25] Voice 12: with some of these things and hopefully that's a value to you and ultimately a value to trust

[0:26:29] Voice 12: council as they look at um what they want to do with this report moving forward okay

[0:26:41] Trustee Gedye: so let's open up discussion about that staff um review and has anybody gone through this

[0:26:51] Trustee Gedye: with um i've made a number of comments all over my my copy and i'm wondering um

[0:26:58] Trustee Gedye: um, what we want to do with this. Um, we can gather information and reactions from each of us.

[0:27:06] Trustee Gedye: And ultimately we have to decide, um, how we're going to use some of this. If we're going to,

[0:27:12] Trustee Gedye: um, obviously we're not on the March agenda. I think we need to sort out who's going to do what,

[0:27:17] Trustee Gedye: what it is we're going to do and when. So the next opportunity would be the June, um, council.

[0:27:24] Trustee Gedye: If we ask for time on that, what are we going to do with it? Trustee Bernardo?

[0:27:34] Voice 6: Thank you. I think what we need to do before we do anything else is answer the questions that Trustee Patrick has raised at this meeting already and raised several times before,

[0:27:47] Voice 6: which is let's be very clear about the two channels that we're dealing with here.

[0:27:56] Voice 6: the governor's report is indeed as trustee patrick says preoccupied focused on analyzing

[0:28:06] Voice 6: the internal things that are within the power of trust council to do something about in terms of

[0:28:12] Voice 6: improving efficiency and effectiveness the governor's report does refer to some things

[0:28:18] Voice 6: things uh that could do with improvement that require legislative change but they're speculative

[0:28:27] Voice 6: they're kind of out there and frankly i don't think the authors of the report were necessarily

[0:28:33] Voice 6: the most qualified to think through the legislative structure uh trust council actually has the most

[0:28:41] Voice 6: experience in terms of dealing with that as does staff in terms of what works with the legislative

[0:28:46] Voice 6: structure and what doesn't but it's always very hard to to try to think outside of something like

[0:28:50] Voice 6: that thing how could you improve it because you've inherited the structure but it'd be that

[0:28:54] Voice 6: as it may see what they see whenever i get the the focus of that letter to the province

[0:29:04] Voice 6: is really has to be about these larger structural issues that trustees believe need to be addressed

[0:29:11] Voice 6: and the basic point here is this discussion about the governance report and how it should

[0:29:18] Voice 6: be prioritized within the work of the trust and uh what changes we really should prioritize and

[0:29:29] Voice 6: what support there is for various elements in the balance uh in the governance report that is

[0:29:34] Voice 6: overdue uh and i do think staff's report is very helpful in that respect especially that business

[0:29:40] Voice 6: about implementing the changes to improve our delivery delivery of planning services

[0:29:45] Voice 6: is staff could be very helpful in terms of working with trustees to sort of reform that

[0:29:51] Voice 6: to make it more efficient along the lines described but all of that business

[0:30:00] Voice 6: Doesn't have to happen first. It isn't necessary for the governance review stuff to be dealt with by trust counsel before this committee starts to work on the letter to the minister.

[0:30:10] Voice 6: They are really two different things. And I think we should I think we should reach that agreement amongst ourselves before we do anything else.

[0:30:22] Voice 6: Would it

[0:30:26] Trustee Gedye: help as we're going through this that we slotted into two categories?

[0:30:30] Trustee Gedye: categories? There's just an idea. Trustee Patrick.

[0:30:39] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, thanks. And sort of along the lines of what

[0:30:43] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Bernardo was saying and why we really can't slot it into two categories. The terms of

[0:30:51] Trustee Patrick: reference for the governance review explicitly removed the review of the legislative and higher

[0:30:58] Trustee Patrick: structures of the of the islands trust it was focused on the internal governance um yes they

[0:31:05] Trustee Patrick: made some recommendations but they did not do an exhaustive review of what would you know because

[0:31:10] Trustee Patrick: they were they were not they were asked not to explicitly in their terms of reference so i think

[0:31:15] Trustee Patrick: we have to use caution that yes they've made some recommendations but that cannot be our sole focus

[0:31:20] Trustee Patrick: of using their recommendations for asking the province so i think distinctly keeping them as

[0:31:25] Trustee Patrick: two separate things. In the original request of the RFD, we said it was very clear. We said that

[0:31:31] Trustee Patrick: Trust Council, like its predecessors, have taken steps. It conducted a governance review in 2021

[0:31:36] Trustee Patrick: and is focused on the internal governance and operations of the trust. This request for decision

[0:31:41] Trustee Patrick: does not replace nor ignore the findings of this report. RFD expects Trust Council to continue to

[0:31:47] Trustee Patrick: address the findings of the report to improve its governance and operations as it has done for

[0:31:53] Trustee Patrick: multiple terms so it was it was always separating it was the intent so i think i'm just again saying

[0:31:59] Trustee Patrick: let's focus on the governance review and those conversations but not conflate the two into the

[0:32:05] Trustee Patrick: same thing because they are different and then in relation to this report i just wanted to say

[0:32:12] Trustee Patrick: as chair of the regional planning committee we have had annex one on our agenda for every meeting

[0:32:18] Trustee Patrick: we've had since april uh and it keeps getting fallen off the table because of all the other

[0:32:22] Trustee Patrick: priorities we just passed a motion this week asking for a special meeting be set for the

[0:32:27] Trustee Patrick: regional planning committee to only discuss annex one so while we have seen it we have not discussed

[0:32:33] Trustee Patrick: it and we will sometime in the near future trustee stamford thank

[0:32:41] Trustee Stamford: you chair um i i'm

[0:32:43] Trustee Stamford: I'm trying not to slide off topic, but when we're talking about the letter to the province, aside from strictly the governance requests, what is our relationship with the UBCM legislative reform initiatives?

[0:33:04] Trustee Stamford: initiatives because i i know that that's a big issue uh with regional districts i don't know how

[0:33:12] Trustee Stamford: islands trust fits in there but i'd hate to think that we're going to make separate requests without

[0:33:18] Trustee Stamford: um consideration of what's being done in a wider environment with local government and

[0:33:25] Trustee Stamford: and regional districts so i don't specifically need an answer i'm just putting it out there that

[0:33:31] Trustee Stamford: that's another avenue for that aspect of it and i think um you know in terms of the governance

[0:33:39] Trustee Stamford: committee it we are we will we're finding ourselves bumping up against those legislative

[0:33:47] Trustee Stamford: reforms right left and center and so that's part of the reason like we're not um seeming to be

[0:33:55] Trustee Stamford: moving forward um but i think we are um if we are strictly within those that line that lane of

[0:34:06] Trustee Stamford: what can we do operationally um within our mandate there isn't actually a huge amount

[0:34:14] Trustee Stamford: that doesn't impact legislation so you know i'd hate to ignore all those other issues

[0:34:21] Trustee Stamford: um that are part of the legislation but i do understand that in order to um move forward

[0:34:30] Trustee Stamford: there there's going to be certain limits and if we can acknowledge that in some kind of

[0:34:35] Trustee Stamford: structured way then it helps people understand why we're moving the way we are does that make any

[0:34:42] Trustee Stamford: sense is

[0:34:44] Trustee Gedye: there someone in the organization that on the trust that has um taken an interest in that

[0:34:52] Trustee Gedye: legislative reform i i don't know

[0:34:55] Trustee Stamford: uh it's peter that's sort of what i've been asking

[0:34:58] Trustee Stamford: yep well

[0:35:05] Trustee Luckham: is no um it's not an active pursuit okay certainly there's act you know has been

[0:35:15] Trustee Luckham: active conversation with the ministry on when the opportunity arrives on various uh topics

[0:35:23] Trustee Luckham: opex um and certainly um but at this point where we're at is the response from the ministry with

[0:35:32] Trustee Luckham: respect to the original ask and um

[0:35:35] Trustee Gedye: that's where we are i

[0:35:37] Trustee Luckham: think we need to um if i might just take

[0:35:40] Trustee Luckham: the opportunity you know uh we want to be successful in this endeavor and we don't want

[0:35:45] Trustee Luckham: another rebuff, I would call it, with respect to an ask.

[0:35:50] Trustee Luckham: And I think we need to think about the response that we have had with respect to the work

[0:35:56] Trustee Luckham: that this body is doing in order to prepare ourselves with, let's call it a business case

[0:36:03] Trustee Luckham: for want of a better phrase, to go to the province with, to be successful in convincing

[0:36:12] Trustee Luckham: convincing them of the necessity

[0:36:14] Trustee Luckham: for their engagement in this.

[0:36:17] Trustee Gedye: Great.

[0:36:18] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Peterson.

[0:36:21] Voice 13: Thank you, Chair.

[0:36:23] Voice 13: So from my perspective, the work of this committee

[0:36:28] Voice 13: in terms of the request of the province

[0:36:31] Voice 13: is essentially to look through these recommendations

[0:36:37] Voice 13: and decide what we want to recommend

[0:36:40] Voice 13: to trust council for decision.

[0:36:41] Voice 13: decision um I would say in addition to that uh if there's other recommendations that we think that

[0:36:51] Voice 13: trust Council ought to consider in terms of requests of the province I think that's fair game

[0:36:56] Voice 13: as well um but I would I would agree that there's a distinction between the sort of ongoing work of

[0:37:05] Voice 13: of the committee and what we want to request

[0:37:11] Voice 13: from the province in terms of legislative changes.

[0:37:15] Voice 13: I think where we're at is to,

[0:37:21] Voice 13: I think we need to do some work

[0:37:23] Voice 13: in terms of what we do have from the report

[0:37:30] Voice 13: and how we want to frame that for trust council.

[0:37:36] Voice 13: And I guess I'll leave it at that,

[0:37:38] Voice 13: but that's sort of where i i think the work is um is is what are we recommending that trust council

[0:37:46] Voice 13: uh i i i would say there's a larger thing is getting trust council's eyes on the report in

[0:37:52] Voice 13: a more general way but in terms of the the request of the province what are we recommending that

[0:37:57] Voice 13: trust council um put in a request and maybe some rationale on why so that's my my perspective at

[0:38:06] Voice 13: this point so

[0:38:08] Trustee Gedye: that and if i can rephrase that it sounds like um the work that we've done in terms

[0:38:14] Trustee Gedye: of going through the report why it's in the matrix the way it is and what we're working on and that

[0:38:20] Trustee Gedye: informs when and how and what we're going to ultimately ask uh include in their ask with the

[0:38:28] Trustee Gedye: province so we've got we've still got some sorting out to do and some working through but um i i

[0:38:35] Voice 13: think we do have some working out to do and i think that if we're if we're bringing uh essentially

[0:38:40] Voice 13: i would assume it would eventually be a request for a decision to trust council

[0:38:45] Voice 13: um saying let's let's make a request of the province that includes a b and c that we need

[0:38:51] Voice 13: to we need to think about what those recommendations are and and and some rationale for trust council

[0:38:56] Voice 13: consider anyway that's leave it at that

[0:38:58] Trustee Gedye: trustee bernardo uh

[0:39:03] Voice 6: thank you um it's um it's challenging

[0:39:07] Voice 6: because we're talking about these two different things

[0:39:09] Voice 6: at the same time.

[0:39:10] Voice 6: So I've got this-

[0:39:12] Voice 6: So the governance review on the one hand

[0:39:17] Voice 6: and the response or the entreaty to the province

[0:39:21] Voice 6: on the other, dealing with the governance report.

[0:39:25] Voice 6: Let's go back to first principles here in terms of process,

[0:39:28] Voice 6: which is governance committee was created

[0:39:29] Voice 6: in order to deal with these types of issues.

[0:39:31] Voice 6: We exist as an advisory body.

[0:39:34] Voice 6: That tells me the one thing we ought not to be doing

[0:39:37] Voice 6: is bringing a big pile of goo to Trust Council

[0:39:40] Voice 6: and say, here, what do you guys think?

[0:39:42] Voice 6: Or opening, have some wide open discussion

[0:39:44] Voice 6: about saying, you know,

[0:39:46] Voice 6: our communication strategy with Trust Council

[0:39:48] Voice 6: is to sort of just sit there dumbly

[0:39:50] Voice 6: and ask them to volunteer things.

[0:39:53] Voice 6: We know from experience that,

[0:39:55] Voice 6: which that large group of people,

[0:39:57] Voice 6: we need to have a framework for discussion

[0:39:59] Voice 6: in order to have a productive one.

[0:40:02] Voice 6: And it's on governance committee

[0:40:04] Voice 6: to create that framework.

[0:40:06] Voice 6: And what I'm envisioning is with respect

[0:40:09] Voice 6: to the governance review,

[0:40:10] Voice 6: we do need to have trust councils serious input about this,

[0:40:14] Voice 6: but we're not going to get it

[0:40:15] Voice 6: unless we do some heavy lifting.

[0:40:16] Voice 6: I think governance committee should be preparing

[0:40:18] Voice 6: a presentation with staff's input.

[0:40:21] Voice 6: And it's already produced some work that's helpful to us.

[0:40:24] Voice 6: We present a presentation on the governance report

[0:40:29] Voice 6: and we make recommendations about what priorities should be.

[0:40:33] Voice 6: And then we provide our rationale for it.

[0:40:36] Voice 6: You know, we don't have to talk about our methodology, the matrix of this. Let's just cut to the chase and say, look, we've gone through it. This is what we think matters. This is what we think doesn't matter. Here's why. And then that gets opened up for discussion and people can agree and disagree. But then we'll actually have some direction at that point and we'll have done our job as advisors.

[0:40:58] Voice 6: advisors and before we do that though I do think that we should probably hear from the consultants

[0:41:04] Voice 6: I think it's asking a lot of trustees to sort of and I commend Judy for doing it um I'm too much

[0:41:12] Voice 6: of a coward to do it myself but I don't think it's realistic to ask trustees to sit through

[0:41:16] Voice 6: three or five hours with the tape just to get the views of what people last term thought we've got

[0:41:22] Voice 6: got a puzzle to settle on our own here and uh i think it would be very helpful uh in the course

[0:41:28] Voice 6: of governance committee preparing its presentation to have the consultants come and speak to us

[0:41:33] Voice 6: and that'll help us digest that digest our thoughts that's on the governance review site

[0:41:39] Voice 6: with respect to the legislative changes um i think we need to be careful here uh in that

[0:41:45] Voice 6: i don't think it's necessarily on us to identify the solutions the legislative solutions that's a

[0:41:53] Voice 6: complicated business designing essentially or redesigning a local government how it works

[0:42:00] Voice 6: we don't necessarily we don't have the expertise there that that's a different

[0:42:05] Voice 6: thing our expertise is in our experience of what works and doesn't work under the current structure

[0:42:13] Voice 6: and i think what this committee can do and i agree as trustee peterson we've got some work

[0:42:18] Voice 6: to do about that. We have to reach agreement about these things, but it's on this committee

[0:42:24] Voice 6: to identify the areas where we believe the current legislative structure needs to be seen.

[0:42:30] Voice 6: We don't necessarily offer the solution, but we identify the roadblocks, the impediments,

[0:42:36] Voice 6: and the difficulties we're experiencing and why we think this or that part of the legislative

[0:42:41] Voice 6: structure is interfering with it. Then we've presented the government with a tangible problem

[0:42:48] Voice 6: but we're not pretending to have a solution and I think it's risky because you can identify the

[0:42:53] Voice 6: solution properly and if you come up with a bad suggestion for a problem you risk getting the

[0:42:58] Voice 6: whole thing swept out I would rather that we identify the real problems but and we might

[0:43:04] Voice 6: talk around solutions but we aren't so bold as to identify them thank you CAO Hudson Pillar

[0:43:15] Voice 12: Thank you. I'm administering the meeting today and doing a touch of CAO at the same time. So in this, I'll just speak for a moment from a CAO's perspective. And I just offer you this for you to think this over. And I'm going to actually pick up at the end of this around what Trustee Bernardo's just spoken to.

[0:43:34] Voice 12: you've got a project in front of you to improve the islands trust and you've got two approaches

[0:43:41] Voice 12: available you've got the governance review which speaks to things you're doing inside the

[0:43:45] Voice 12: organization as well as areas they've highlighted for legislative review you've already written to

[0:43:52] Voice 12: the minister asking for a wholesale reconsideration inside that request necessarily is legislative

[0:44:01] Voice 12: legislative change, but you've left it to the minister to figure out what all those things are.

[0:44:08] Voice 12: So you need a project, I would submit, you need a project that says, here's our three or four things

[0:44:14] Voice 12: from a legislative perspective that we think need addressing, and you communicate that clearly to

[0:44:20] Voice 12: the minister. At the same time you communicate to the minister, these are the things we're working

[0:44:25] Voice 12: on in-house to improve our performance and i will i will submit this um i think you do have to

[0:44:33] Voice 12: suggest some consideration of a solution because the province doesn't have the time nor the people

[0:44:41] Voice 12: with experience associated with the islands trust compared to you and your staff if you have an

[0:44:48] Voice 12: outcome and you want a legislative conclusion that's satisfactory at least give them a running

[0:44:53] Voice 12: head start um because if it's just a whole like the last letter said let's do this across a range

[0:45:01] Voice 12: of areas i can tell you that is a tough thing for what ends up being a portion of the ministry

[0:45:08] Voice 12: to prioritize a massive reconsideration so you either go in saying reconsider the whole thing

[0:45:14] Voice 12: or you go here's our four or five areas that are really important i think they're going to help

[0:45:20] Voice 12: here's what the conclusion here's how we think it would operate well at the end how can we get there

[0:45:26] Voice 12: um i think you'll have a better chance there when you speak of co-governance with first nations

[0:45:33] Voice 12: um you're going to want to think that through instead of just asking the province to facilitate

[0:45:40] Voice 12: that because you have unique insight that i'll tell you most of the people that are working at

[0:45:45] Voice 12: the province at this point some of them weren't most of them who work on this file weren't born

[0:45:49] Voice 12: when there was an islands trust and we're seeing people move through the organization um quicker

[0:45:55] Voice 12: you are the the the holders of um and the staff of specific information so

[0:46:03] Voice 12: this should be a project that includes legislative change internal change um they're wrapped together

[0:46:10] Voice 12: and um it's presented not fait accompli but with um some work done as to what you'd like to see

[0:46:17] Voice 12: at the end of the day thank you for the time very

[0:46:23] Trustee Gedye: um ex officio welcome um

[0:46:28] Trustee Luckham: thank you uh chair um

[0:46:30] Trustee Luckham: yeah it's hard to say uh anything beyond what ceo has just said but i sort of want to follow up on

[0:46:38] Trustee Luckham: and agree with what he's remarked about um i just want to follow up really more with respect to

[0:46:44] Trustee Luckham: trustee bernardo about getting the work done um the um that you know in the governance report it's

[0:46:51] Trustee Luckham: there are, I forget the exact number, but there's a number of recommendations, which I don't agree

[0:46:58] Trustee Luckham: with all of them. There are other trustees that do agree with all of them. And I don't think we've

[0:47:04] Trustee Luckham: had a discussion actually on the recommendations that were made in that report, whether or not

[0:47:10] Trustee Luckham: we agree upon them. And I think that if we want to start the work, I think we need to come to that

[0:47:15] Trustee Luckham: fundamental agreement about what it is that we agree with in that report or not and pursue them

[0:47:21] Trustee Luckham: and or seek clarification from the authors if that seems like the appropriate thing once we've

[0:47:29] Trustee Luckham: had that conversation because although there was certainly a lot of expertise on that body there

[0:47:35] Trustee Luckham: was obviously some areas where there was some shortfalls and indeed there are some recommendations

[0:47:43] Trustee Luckham: that I and others also think were not made in that report, and certainly as Trustee Patrick has, perhaps it was, indicated that some of their, in their terms of reference, there was areas that were out of bounds, but indeed, some of those areas that are out of bounds are indeed fundamental

[0:48:05] Trustee Luckham: to the advancement of supporting the Islanders Trust

[0:48:09] Trustee Luckham: and the work that it does for the province.

[0:48:12] Trustee Luckham: And so I do think that council needs to have

[0:48:17] Trustee Luckham: that conversation about the recommendations

[0:48:20] Trustee Luckham: and then determine whether or not there's a necessity

[0:48:23] Trustee Luckham: to seek any clarity on any of those topics at some point.

[0:48:28] Trustee Luckham: That's it for me.

[0:48:29] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, everybody.

[0:48:32] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Patrick?

[0:48:33] Trustee Gedye: Patrick?

[0:48:36] Trustee Patrick: We're setting ourselves up for an impossible task again. I think that seems to

[0:48:40] Trustee Patrick: be what we all do, and then we never get anything done. We have to separate the two. We're a

[0:48:46] Trustee Patrick: governance committee that was designed to deal with the internal operations of this organization,

[0:48:51] Trustee Patrick: and now suddenly we're going to be the external two. I think, again, we have to look at the

[0:48:58] Trustee Patrick: document in front of us as a result. It said, right in the terms of reference, review the

[0:49:03] Trustee Patrick: the island's trust's organizational structure, policies, and procedures, and overall effectiveness

[0:49:07] Trustee Patrick: and efficiency in achieving the organization's goals. And in the report itself, they picked some

[0:49:15] Trustee Patrick: governance principles, you know, legitimacy and voice, good direction and purpose,

[0:49:22] Trustee Patrick: performance and stewardship, accountability, and fairness. I mean, well, we could go to other

[0:49:28] Trustee Patrick: standards. The Canadian Audit Accountability Foundation also has a standard for governance

[0:49:33] Trustee Patrick: of the structure of the organization, how we do what we say we're doing and organizing and getting

[0:49:39] Trustee Patrick: things done. This is an example of why we're not getting anything done when we sit here and don't

[0:49:44] Trustee Patrick: have clear direction of what we're doing. I strongly suggest that we get on and have a

[0:49:49] Trustee Patrick: conversation about the results of the governance review report and set aside the conversation

[0:49:54] Trustee Patrick: about the request of the province to review

[0:49:57] Trustee Patrick: and deal with them as distinctly two different things

[0:50:00] Trustee Patrick: because they are.

[0:50:04] Voice 7: Trustee Middleton.

[0:50:09] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair.

[0:50:10] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I mean, I do think that is the case that we,

[0:50:14] Trustee Middleton: obviously they intersect

[0:50:16] Trustee Middleton: because they're dealing with the same organization,

[0:50:18] Trustee Middleton: but I think it's true that we need to treat them separately

[0:50:21] Trustee Middleton: as their genesis was separate.

[0:50:24] Trustee Middleton: And to that end, I think that what I'm hearing,

[0:50:27] Trustee Middleton: And at first, maybe I was rebelling against this a little bit, but what I'm hearing is that the issues that were perhaps legitimized by the last trust council aren't necessarily the issues that this council wants to take on, or this council wants to be given the space to make that decision.

[0:50:45] Trustee Middleton: And I respect that now. And I think that what we've heard from Trustee Bernardo in terms of let's have a discussion about the governance report, let's get the consultants in and put them in the hot seat, question them about the recommendations or what's agreed with, not agreed with, so that this committee, as servants to this council, can have an understanding or a view on what is important.

[0:51:10] Trustee Middleton: Because I've heard quite a few times that largely the data used in the report came from the last term's trustees, and it's not necessarily the case that that would be something that this term's trustees agree with.

[0:51:25] Trustee Middleton: So I think a solution there is to actually get the resources in front of this committee and see if this committee lands on different priorities or comes out with some different nuances on the recommendations.

[0:51:38] Trustee Middleton: recommendations and then as far as the request to the province goes i think what trust council

[0:51:44] Trustee Middleton: did is a variant of that uh same quandary to say this letter came out of last council

[0:51:51] Trustee Middleton: operations it was a conclusion the last council came to the reason i think there's been no response

[0:51:58] Trustee Middleton: formal real formal response back to the ministers i think this council isn't sure that it holds the

[0:52:04] Trustee Middleton: the same view and and and that may be perfectly legitimate but i think that that's what the

[0:52:10] Trustee Middleton: council asked us to do is to look at that request to the province and say do we want to do we want

[0:52:15] Trustee Middleton: to get behind this still is this right is this where our thinking is and i guess that would have

[0:52:21] Trustee Middleton: to be another separate discussion that we would have to say are we are we are we backing that

[0:52:28] Trustee Middleton: same request for wholesale review that the last council um basically endorsed at the end of its

[0:52:33] Trustee Middleton: last term and I think it's an open question I think that might be some of the reason we're not

[0:52:38] Trustee Middleton: we're not moving forward as uh as maybe as efficiently as as you know you you referenced

[0:52:43] Trustee Middleton: trustee Patrick but I think so two two things I would say we gotta we gotta wrestle with the

[0:52:48] Trustee Middleton: recommendations using I would say the authors to see what we are endorsing as this this council

[0:52:56] Trustee Middleton: servants on the governance committee and then secondly wrestle with are we behind this request

[0:53:01] Trustee Middleton: to the province um and i don't think we are to be honest so that's my reading but i don't want

[0:53:06] Trustee Middleton: to telegraph that i think that has to be a separate conversation and that that is i think

[0:53:11] Trustee Middleton: how we move forward we have to start with where we now are as opposed to what we think we picked

[0:53:16] Trustee Middleton: up from the torch from the last council as inefficient as that may be but i kind of come

[0:53:22] Trustee Middleton: to the conclusion that is our reality and that is where we need to be in thank you and we agree

[0:53:28] Trustee Gedye: that we're separating out the presentation of the governance review to this trust council

[0:53:36] Trustee Gedye: and we can work on and analyze what if anything goes to the province after that that would be the

[0:53:44] Trustee Gedye: what we're aiming for the result we're aiming for to have this council up to speed on this

[0:53:51] Trustee Gedye: governance review period and then we can figure out next steps afterwards i see nodding heads

[0:53:59] Trustee Gedye: Does that help this conversation?

[0:54:02] Voice 6: Yes.

[0:54:03] Voice 6: I mean, we've got to do, I mean, you know, you've got to eat the elephant one mouthful at a time, you know.

[0:54:09] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris.

[0:54:11] Voice 5: I have an agreement about hearing from the consultants.

[0:54:15] Voice 5: And I just, the question I ask, I hear about the separating the legislative and the internal.

[0:54:23] Voice 5: I just feel that is, I'm not even sure.

[0:54:28] Voice 5: Sure. You know, isn't it the case that any real meaningful internal change will require some legislative change?

[0:54:42] Voice 5: You know, I think that maybe is a conversation that we

[0:54:45] Voice 7: could have. Thank you.

[0:54:49] Voice 7: Trustee Bernard.

[0:54:50] Voice 7: Hi. Yeah,

[0:54:52] Voice 6: I want to follow up on some of Trustee Lucknum's remarks, which is I agree with him that, you know,

[0:55:01] Voice 6: If we move away from the generalities of, you know, we need to analyze the governance report and provide recommendations, et cetera, et cetera, well, he's starting to drill down a little bit into, like, there's some recommendations in there that I think all trustees can get behind.

[0:55:13] Voice 6: There's other recommendations that there's probably a fair bit of division.

[0:55:18] Voice 6: And there's also, I think, probably a few recommendations that all trustees would probably respectfully decline to deal with and just shove away because they think they're kind of dopey.

[0:55:28] Voice 6: And Trustee Leckham is right that we as a committee need to have that discussion.

[0:55:36] Voice 6: We need to reach consensus of what should be pursued and what shouldn't.

[0:55:40] Voice 6: And bring that recommendation to Trust Council so they can have that discussion.

[0:55:44] Voice 6: And the way for us, I think, on the Governance Committee to do that, you know, is to hear from the consultants very soon.

[0:55:57] Voice 6: We've worked with the Governance Report now for about a year.

[0:55:59] Voice 6: are and at the outset of this committee we all did some work in terms of reading the report and

[0:56:03] Voice 6: coming up with our own analysis of it if we all go back to the work that we did beforehand and

[0:56:09] Voice 6: sort of bone up on our thoughts about the governance review and then we have the consultants

[0:56:14] Voice 6: or representative consultants come to us and speak to what they believe to be their the you know

[0:56:21] Voice 6: a report's one thing somebody making an oral presentation where they cut to the heart of

[0:56:26] Voice 6: the matter and say look this is what we thought was the real issue could be helpful to us in terms

[0:56:30] Voice 6: of setting our own priorities but equally it's an opportunity for us to engage in a certain amount

[0:56:36] Voice 6: of critical exchange with the consultants to say look how did you get to this conclusion

[0:56:41] Voice 6: because the one thing that's always given me pause about that report is although i think most

[0:56:51] Voice 6: of its recommendations and we'll go back and set most of its observations are sound

[0:56:55] Voice 6: there is very little actual analysis in the report what what it is it collects the views

[0:57:02] Voice 6: basically of most of the trustees and other stakeholders from last term and then implicitly

[0:57:09] Voice 6: prioritizes those things in the way it orders the information but there's no overt analysis and i

[0:57:14] Voice 6: think the consultants can be pressed to say look you're identifying these things as priorities why

[0:57:20] Voice 6: this and not that and that critical exchange can be friendly but it's like you know let's drill

[0:57:25] Voice 6: into it that needs to happen for us i think to get to the bottom of it and i think we should have

[0:57:30] Voice 6: that that discussion with with the consultants pretty soon and shifting again to the yes i'm

[0:57:37] Voice 6: agreeing with the chair that yes let's leave at least this meeting with an understanding that

[0:57:42] Voice 6: we're going to deal with these two things separately governance review on the one hand

[0:57:46] Voice 6: legislative response on the other and i think in parallel with while we're working on the

[0:57:52] Voice 6: governance review part of it i think one component that might be helpful and i'm throwing this other

[0:57:57] Voice 6: suggestion is one of the issues that we know that has plagued us for a long time is a lack

[0:58:05] Voice 6: of consistent or coherent provincial funding for uh things that the province has prioritized

[0:58:13] Voice 6: staff is in the best position to prepare a report for governance committee

[0:58:18] Voice 6: committee on the challenges we face with provincial funding and that could form the basis of a chunk

[0:58:26] Voice 6: of what goes to the province to say look we've got some legislative issues yeah there's another

[0:58:31] Voice 6: issue we have here how about some money because the funding structure sucks and that belongs in

[0:58:38] Voice 6: that letter as much as this abstract stuff and staff didn't actually help us right now because

[0:58:43] Voice 6: Because let's face it, you know, and I'm sensitized to this because we just had a very seven-hour Zoom meeting on FBC earlier in the week.

[0:58:51] Voice 6: It would be, I think, helpful to have staff prepare that so that we would have the start of a chunk to go into the letter to the province.

[0:58:59] Voice 6: Thank you.

[0:59:02] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stamford.

[0:59:04] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[0:59:06] Trustee Stamford: This is exactly the reason I voted against the review last year.

[0:59:12] Trustee Stamford: it's put us in the position where I thought we'd be in is you've got a new council we we had the

[0:59:18] Trustee Stamford: report lands just before the end of the term and we don't have we didn't have time to really work

[0:59:26] Trustee Stamford: it through so now this group is struggling because it's a new council it has different priorities

[0:59:33] Trustee Stamford: different focus different perspective part of the reason this whole governance review

[0:59:41] Trustee Stamford: review began with efficiency. It was drilled in. We are inefficient. We're inefficient. We need

[0:59:47] Trustee Stamford: to demonstrate why we're inefficient, how to fix it. That was the original purpose. There was also

[0:59:55] Trustee Stamford: underlying concerns about structure.

[1:00:00] Trustee Stamford: inequities between the different regions um and how to alleviate that so that built trust with

[1:00:07] Trustee Stamford: the different levels especially around executive committee i i don't want to have to go back to

[1:00:13] Trustee Stamford: the beginning um i think yes let's bring these guys in again to talk to the committee if that

[1:00:22] Trustee Stamford: is helpful but i keep feeling we're going back to the beginning and and it's really frustrating

[1:00:28] Trustee Stamford: because efficiency and and streamlining our processes was part of the goals of this whole

[1:00:37] Trustee Stamford: process to begin with um anyway just a thought trustee

[1:00:51] Trustee Gedye: luckham you're

[1:00:58] Trustee Luckham: mute i can't help but

[1:01:02] Trustee Luckham: think that in consideration of uh bringing the consultant back and that's a you know i trustee

[1:01:10] Trustee Luckham: Bernardo has caused me to reflect a little bit more carefully about that. The homework for council

[1:01:17] Trustee Luckham: and trustees, every trustee, is actually to watch the video when they came to council. And because

[1:01:25] Trustee Luckham: I think generally, if there's anybody that disagrees, I'd like to hear that. I think that

[1:01:31] Trustee Luckham: the summary at that council session when we received that report was considered to be better

[1:01:37] Trustee Luckham: than the report was. And so I think the homework needs to start right there and then have some kind

[1:01:45] Trustee Luckham: of a conversation. And yeah, if we want some clarity on some areas and as Trustee Bernardo

[1:01:52] Trustee Luckham: has said, how did you get to this conclusion other than a summary of opinion, which I do think

[1:01:59] Trustee Luckham: think it's short on analysis, strong on opinion. And I'd like to get to that place where we can

[1:02:08] Trustee Luckham: have a meaningful conversation about advancing it. This is the most exciting conversation I think

[1:02:13] Trustee Luckham: that we've actually had about it because we're moving the dial a bit here. And I really appreciate

[1:02:17] Trustee Luckham: that. Thank you.

[1:02:23] Trustee Gedye: Great. Trustee Stanford, is your hand still up or is it again?

[1:02:26] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, just to emphasize what Peter said, I don't think it's five hours.

[1:02:35] Trustee Stamford: It wasn't five hours when I was sitting there.

[1:02:38] Trustee Stamford: It was a good presentation.

[1:02:41] Trustee Stamford: I think we can shorten it.

[1:02:44] Trustee Stamford: If there's ways of editing it, at least take out the breaks or something.

[1:02:51] Trustee Stamford: It was a very good presentation.

[1:02:54] Trustee Stamford: the

[1:02:55] Trustee Gedye: whole tape was five hours but that's the entire meeting of

[1:02:58] Trustee Gedye: that day and the the actual

[1:03:00] Trustee Gedye: consultant time and discussion was about three hours and there was a 50 minute break in there

[1:03:05] Trustee Gedye: and um a lot of questions and answers i think the actual presentation was about half an hour

[1:03:11] Trustee Gedye: yeah but the

[1:03:12] Trustee Gedye: questions and answers are good too yeah

[1:03:14] Trustee Stamford: it was a very informative

[1:03:16] Trustee Stamford: afternoon i

[1:03:17] Trustee Gedye: sat through five hours so i was complaining trustee middleton thank you karen

[1:03:26] Trustee Middleton: and I agree with Trustee Stamford

[1:03:29] Trustee Middleton: that there is some frustration in there

[1:03:30] Trustee Middleton: and I certainly felt it at the beginning

[1:03:32] Trustee Middleton: because I've been educated here

[1:03:35] Trustee Middleton: about the transition from the last council to this one.

[1:03:39] Trustee Middleton: There is a degree of independence of thinking

[1:03:42] Trustee Middleton: that simply must be honoured.

[1:03:44] Trustee Middleton: I mean, it's not going to go away.

[1:03:47] Trustee Middleton: I mean, from everything like from your chair

[1:03:49] Trustee Middleton: talking about rubber stamping,

[1:03:51] Trustee Middleton: what I just thought was a very simple administrative matter

[1:03:53] Trustee Middleton: matter on the ex-officio role, I realize this council wants to legitimize everything that it

[1:04:03] Trustee Middleton: touches through its own action. And I think the only way we're going to be able to sort through

[1:04:09] Trustee Middleton: the governance review is if we give this committee a chance to engage with the consultants to agree

[1:04:15] Trustee Middleton: or disagree or hammer things out or blow things up or whatever it may be. But I don't see this

[1:04:20] Trustee Middleton: this committee functioning as effectively or smoothly as it can be until we

[1:04:27] Trustee Middleton: actually give this committee a chance to make these ideas,

[1:04:30] Trustee Middleton: whatever collection of the ideas emerge our own,

[1:04:35] Trustee Middleton: and then take that spirit to, to council. So, so I,

[1:04:39] Trustee Middleton: I'm echoing trustee Bernardo. I think as soon as we can,

[1:04:42] Trustee Middleton: we can get the consultants before us and actually answer those questions,

[1:04:46] Trustee Middleton: you know, not, not withstanding the excellent advice from our chair,

[1:04:50] Trustee Middleton: to review the um the presentation but i i'm strongly hearing that until a kind of a critical

[1:04:57] Trustee Middleton: analysis of back and forth is conducted this committee won't will still always feel somewhat

[1:05:03] Trustee Middleton: alienated from the report to a degree that we won't be able to move forward as effectively

[1:05:08] Trustee Middleton: um as we could if we we really were to make this our own for this term now thank you um

[1:05:18] Trustee Gedye: if i can

[1:05:18] Trustee Gedye: interject joe before i put myself on the speaker's list i have looked at that and spent the time

[1:05:24] Trustee Gedye: going through that and um my i was frustrated in terms of the vagueness of it and the um you know

[1:05:34] Trustee Gedye: they talked about a whole lot of holistic and a whole lot of um you know systemic and and um

[1:05:41] Trustee Gedye: i think they they indicated that what they were dealing with was a whole lot of um they had spent

[1:05:48] Trustee Gedye: spent all of their time and a considerable amount of time

[1:05:50] Trustee Gedye: having intense interviews with each and every trustee.

[1:05:55] Trustee Gedye: And that they basically gave a summary of all of the concerns

[1:06:00] Trustee Gedye: and the issues that were raised in answer to a series of questions.

[1:06:04] Trustee Gedye: It was quite a long series of questions.

[1:06:07] Trustee Gedye: It was attached to that March the 8th agenda.

[1:06:11] Trustee Gedye: But, you know, that was a different council and they were going through COVID

[1:06:15] Trustee Gedye: And they hadn't had meetings. And there was mention of collegiality, you know, at least three or four times in their presentation. And the emphasis in terms of the role, I mean, I got more clarity in that presentation in terms of the role of the secretariat, but it was more trying to help counsel in their divisiveness.

[1:06:40] Trustee Gedye: effectiveness and um you know at one point they mentioned that the secretariat would be responsible

[1:06:46] Trustee Gedye: for disciplining trustees if they were out of line in terms of their behavior with each other

[1:06:51] Trustee Gedye: and it's like okay um you know if if that's an expectation of the chair or staff and it's

[1:07:00] Trustee Gedye: nobody would take that on then it's understandable that this would become an important function

[1:07:06] Trustee Gedye: um if it's a dysfunctional uh council um but you know in terms of trying to get them to get back up

[1:07:15] Trustee Gedye: to speed not having interviewed half of this council and maybe the the people that they were

[1:07:22] Trustee Gedye: raising the most concerns have left the council i i don't know um there's no mention in terms of

[1:07:28] Trustee Gedye: they talked about the cone of silence so it wasn't um clarified in terms of who had what concerns but

[1:07:35] Trustee Gedye: But, you know, they said that there's the tension between the federal system and the local government that, I mean, yeah, they said there was a tension, but they didn't give any examples in terms of how to actually make recommendations to help.

[1:07:55] Trustee Gedye: You know, the whole thing in terms of consensus decision making as opposed to deliberative.

[1:08:00] Trustee Gedye: If consensus decision-making is we just keep talking until we finally agree and deliberative is, you know, limiting the discussion and then calling the question, you know, then I see the staff's concern in terms of getting into a consensus decision-making process is very different from what we're working with now.

[1:08:23] Trustee Gedye: So, you know, in terms of bringing the consultants in and having and asking them specific questions and getting help, they've spent a whole lot of time and blew their budget on, you know, all of the details of the, and they complained that they went, they ended up spending more time trying to sort through all of the interviews.

[1:08:46] Trustee Gedye: interviews. And, you know, whether those were the terms of reference, or that's just how it

[1:08:52] Trustee Gedye: grew. I think it's not a simple matter of just bringing the consultants back in and asking them

[1:08:59] Trustee Gedye: pointed questions. I think them getting up to speed, figuring out what this council and half

[1:09:04] Trustee Gedye: of it has changed. And, you know, whether or not I, it's a whole new problem, I think, you know,

[1:09:13] Trustee Gedye: if we're struggling with what's internal and what's external and you know whether or not we are

[1:09:19] Trustee Gedye: wanting to move towards consensus and deliberative if we understand the different things if we want

[1:09:24] Trustee Gedye: to get into the details of the the federal versus the local um and you know what's what hasn't been

[1:09:33] Trustee Gedye: um considered in them they they're not um they don't give any recommendations or suggestions

[1:09:39] Trustee Gedye: in terms of how to have a representative

[1:09:42] Trustee Gedye: from the province.

[1:09:43] Voice 6: Point of order.

[1:09:45] Trustee Gedye: Yep.

[1:09:48] Voice 6: I'm sorry, Chair, but you're repeating yourself.

[1:09:52] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[1:09:53] Trustee Gedye: No First Nations, no legislation.

[1:09:57] Trustee Gedye: And things have changed in terms of

[1:09:59] Trustee Gedye: we're doing the strategic planning

[1:10:01] Trustee Gedye: and we've got this committee.

[1:10:03] Trustee Gedye: And, you know, we could ask questions

[1:10:05] Trustee Gedye: in terms of this is where we are now.

[1:10:07] Trustee Gedye: What do we, you know,

[1:10:08] Trustee Gedye: do you have suggestions for where to go next?

[1:10:10] Trustee Gedye: But I think going back

[1:10:12] Trustee Gedye: and trying to clarify their opinions I'm not sure how helpful that would be and

[1:10:21] Trustee Gedye: whether there's an expense involved and whether that helps us with this council

[1:10:27] Trustee Gedye: understanding the what we've prioritized and what we want to work on from this

[1:10:33] Trustee Gedye: review trustee Bernardo thank

[1:10:38] Voice 6: you you said a lot there which I kind of I feel

[1:10:45] Voice 6: like I need to respond to it because your chair has expressed some skepticism about the value of

[1:10:53] Voice 6: having consultants come in. And I confess I'm bewildered by the critique. I don't believe

[1:11:00] Voice 6: there's any necessity to have the consultants get up to speed on what the opinions of the current

[1:11:04] Voice 6: trust counsel or current trustees happens to be. That's not the point. We're here to make up our

[1:11:09] Voice 6: our own minds about it we don't need them to help us out of thing what we need to know is

[1:11:16] Voice 6: where are they coming from how did they get to those conclusions because the fact of the matter

[1:11:21] Voice 6: is notwithstanding that this was a report that was prepared last term it isn't stale because

[1:11:27] Voice 6: we're working with it and every expectation of trust council is that we're going to act on it

[1:11:32] Voice 6: so the authors of this instrument that we're being the expectation is we're going to act on it

[1:11:38] Voice 6: have things to say about what they intended and i think we have to be kind of realistic about how

[1:11:43] Voice 6: consultants reports work um the hard things never get put on the table in an overt way you have to

[1:11:50] Voice 6: read between the lines and have to ask the hard questions and when you the chair was referring

[1:11:54] Voice 6: to things like systemic words like systemic holistic yeah you read words like that they're

[1:12:00] Voice 6: telling you you have big problems you have systemic problems you have the whole organization

[1:12:05] Voice 6: the structure of the organization has things that need fixing they didn't they transmitted

[1:12:12] Voice 6: the opinions of trustees they were caging about expressing their own opinions i see great value

[1:12:21] Voice 6: impressing them on that they're supposed to be experts about this they did draw up all sorts

[1:12:25] Voice 6: of easter eggs in there about how there's a need for a management review and you know perhaps i'm

[1:12:31] Voice 6: overly cynical about such things when i read that i read that as an invitation to to let out

[1:12:37] Voice 6: in other contracts that they could they could do that work as well what did they mean by management

[1:12:42] Voice 6: review the report is relatively silent about that but that's a pretty important thing to be talking

[1:12:48] Voice 6: about what do they mean because if you ask that question you start finding out getting a little

[1:12:54] Voice 6: closer to what they think is the real problem so uh i don't think we have to bring them up to speed

[1:12:59] Voice 6: uh we want to know what they were thinking when they wrote that report so that we know how to

[1:13:05] Voice 6: deal with the report today we can make up our own minds about that going back to the other issue i

[1:13:11] Voice 6: wanted to really address which is actually a more trivial one it's this business about listening to

[1:13:15] Voice 6: the tape which is like yeah i think uh the governance committee can and probably should

[1:13:20] Voice 6: listen to the tape uh in preparation for when we meet with the experts or the consultants

[1:13:27] Voice 6: i don't think the committee is doing our job if we find ourselves in a situation where we tell

[1:13:32] Voice 6: tell the trustees and trust counsel to go listen to the tape we're here to provide them advice not

[1:13:40] Voice 6: to say look you make up your own mind go look over here um we have to do the heavy lifting

[1:13:47] Voice 6: and grinding through that tape debating it amongst ourselves and then or dealing with

[1:13:52] Voice 6: it somehow in the context of having that expert to come in that's us doing our job thank you

[1:13:59] Voice 6: sure

[1:14:06] Trustee Gedye: look him i'm

[1:14:07] Trustee Luckham: sorry my hand got taken down maybe i did that um um i just want to uh sort of

[1:14:17] Trustee Luckham: say that um in reflection on uh what has happened in the past and what might happen in the future

[1:14:25] Trustee Luckham: is that i wouldn't want to discount and anything that i any remarks that i've made certainly are

[1:14:32] Trustee Luckham: are not out to discount the opinions gathered

[1:14:36] Trustee Luckham: from the previous council.

[1:14:38] Trustee Luckham: I think that that is a snapshot in time

[1:14:43] Trustee Luckham: from a council with a lot of experienced membership

[1:14:49] Trustee Luckham: on board that provided their thoughts and criticisms,

[1:14:53] Trustee Luckham: et cetera, to help us create that report.

[1:14:57] Trustee Luckham: And that snapshot in time is important.

[1:15:00] Trustee Luckham: And certainly a new perspective based upon new points of view fresh, particularly now that we're more than two years into this term, certainly the current trustees have some new perspectives on that.

[1:15:16] Trustee Luckham: And somehow we need to look at what the common thread is and what new themes there might be associated with that.

[1:15:24] Trustee Luckham: So there's certainly at this juncture, there's a lot of work to be done in order to prepare ourselves for coming back to successfully lobbying the government to, one, contribute additional funding,

[1:15:39] Trustee Luckham: And two, assist us with legislative amendments based on a full analysis of that original work and where we're at today. And even I was actually going through the minutes of this meeting. Boy, we've had a lot of meetings.

[1:15:53] Trustee Luckham: And so, you know, all of this work needs to come together to determine the direction that we want to take on the original topics. And just dropping in on the consensus thing, I think that indeed, perhaps we have consensus on separating these things.

[1:16:12] Trustee Luckham: and i think that is sort of agreed upon um we can move forward from this topic on that notion

[1:16:19] Trustee Luckham: of splitting these up and obviously there's a lot more discussion about how we're going to get to

[1:16:24] Trustee Luckham: um uh uh the next step okay

[1:16:31] Trustee Gedye: we're quarter after 10 um i've got two more hands up um lee and

[1:16:37] Trustee Gedye: and Trustee Patrick.

[1:16:42] Trustee Middleton: I'll defer and then for Trustee Patrick.

[1:16:46] Trustee Middleton: Thank you, Chair.

[1:16:48] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Patrick.

[1:16:50] Trustee Patrick: Well, I just wanted to take us back to the table

[1:16:52] Trustee Patrick: that's in front of us that staff prepared for the meeting

[1:16:55] Trustee Patrick: and start with like looking at recommendation number one.

[1:16:59] Trustee Patrick: So the report came to the conclusion that the problem was

[1:17:03] Trustee Patrick: we didn't have enough time to elect who the chair

[1:17:06] Trustee Patrick: and the executive was and that would require

[1:17:08] Trustee Patrick: legislative change to fix that.

[1:17:09] Trustee Patrick: But I think this committee is going into what's the underlying issue regarding that. And I took the time to look at how much has been delegated to the executive committee from Trust Council, that in the history of this organization, we've essentially delegated everything to the executive committee.

[1:17:26] Trustee Patrick: So, of course, we're extremely interested in who gets elected as the vice chairs because we've delegated them all that authority. What's underlying that is all the delegated authority. Is it appropriate today with our modern techniques and being able to Zoom and talk and have decisions a little bit quicker?

[1:17:43] Trustee Patrick: speaker, you know, is that the issue? And that might be getting at the management review. Is

[1:17:49] Trustee Patrick: that what the management review is that they're talking about to look at how the structure

[1:17:52] Trustee Patrick: has been designed of what delegated authorities have been given away from trust counsel to other

[1:17:58] Trustee Patrick: bodies and what's left at the trust counsel table for decision-making. So I think those would be the

[1:18:06] Trustee Patrick: fun conversations to have is to get at the underlying issues. And as a group agree, are

[1:18:11] Trustee Patrick: Are these, you know, what is the issue?

[1:18:13] Trustee Patrick: Is it just we need more time to elect who's there?

[1:18:15] Trustee Patrick: Or is it, should we be reviewing

[1:18:17] Trustee Patrick: what we've given those people for authority?

[1:18:27] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo.

[1:18:30] Voice 6: Thank you.

[1:18:33] Voice 6: We, you know, we have limited time

[1:18:36] Voice 6: and we have things to do.

[1:18:37] Voice 6: We want to make some sort of progress

[1:18:39] Voice 6: and I'm going to canvas the suggestion.

[1:18:41] Voice 6: I want to be careful here.

[1:18:43] Voice 6: I don't want to put something out there

[1:18:44] Voice 6: that's going to create more time wasting

[1:18:49] Voice 6: because we start squabbling over it.

[1:18:51] Voice 6: But I'm wondering whether we should have, I should make a motion at this juncture asking that the consultants who, asking staff to invite the consultants who authored the governance report to come to perhaps the next

[1:19:06] Voice 6: meeting or subsequent meeting.

[1:19:10] Voice 6: That's the thought, but I'm not making that motion, but I'm throwing it out there. Is this the time to do that?

[1:19:16] Voice 6: To come to the governance committee or to come to the trust council?

[1:19:19] Voice 6: come to the governance committee to to to speak to the to the report so the consultants can answer

[1:19:26] Voice 6: our questions and given the the way things are going around here there's different views about

[1:19:30] Voice 6: it but i'm just thinking okay i mean let's make it just i don't want to press the decision if

[1:19:36] Voice 6: people feel it's the right time to do it but i'm feeling that maybe we should make a decision yes

[1:19:40] Voice 6: or no are we going to have these guys come to talk to us and get it on the record make the

[1:19:45] Voice 6: the decision invite them and get the process going but i'm not going

[1:19:50] Trustee Gedye: to take that push

[1:19:50] Voice 6: i had

[1:19:51] Trustee Gedye: written down the same suggestion um trustee harris i'm

[1:19:57] Voice 5: in support of that i think that's um

[1:19:59] Voice 5: really the next logical step at this point so trustee

[1:20:08] Voice 3: gavro um i would be worried about the

[1:20:13] Voice 3: consultant coming to meet just with our committee and i would suggest if we do end up doing that

[1:20:18] Voice 3: that they should meet with trust counsel so that the opportunity for all the trustees to

[1:20:22] Voice 3: uh ask their questions i i agree that the uh my struggle the governance review and that it does

[1:20:31] Voice 3: sometimes it makes great suggestions but it does seem to kind of be a little bit disjointed at

[1:20:36] Voice 3: times um my page two it'll talk about fairness um under fairness the comment is processes are

[1:20:43] Voice 3: obscure and overly bureaucratic we hear that all the time yet it doesn't offer any comment any

[1:20:49] Voice 3: comment to what that process is um so an opportunity for the trustees to speak with um

[1:20:58] Voice 3: yeah it looks like it's an opportunity for trustees to ask those questions about the

[1:21:02] Voice 3: government's review that um have a more thorough understanding of what's in it and then proceeding

[1:21:07] Voice 3: from there but there's also been a tremendous amount of work done in the past uh in the last

[1:21:12] Voice 3: term as well so i support what louise was saying about uh starting from the beginning again so i

[1:21:19] Voice 3: just offer that for a comment thanks

[1:21:23] Trustee Gedye: trustee harris you

[1:21:26] Voice 5: know it brings me back to um what

[1:21:28] Voice 5: trustee bernardo said earlier about the governance committee being created to deal with the governance

[1:21:32] Voice 5: review that's what our job is here um and and uh i think that the consultants coming to the

[1:21:38] Voice 5: the governance committee so we can do our job is the next logical step and I wouldn't encourage

[1:21:46] Voice 5: at this point the consultants going to all of the trust council I think that we need to talk to them

[1:21:52] Voice 5: as the governance committee thank you anybody

[1:22:00] Trustee Gedye: else Lee yeah

[1:22:03] Trustee Middleton: I would support them coming to

[1:22:05] Trustee Middleton: the governance committee but it doesn't preclude that once we've had the discussion and landed on

[1:22:09] Trustee Middleton: on our understanding that they could not also speak

[1:22:15] Trustee Middleton: to those points or be part of a presentation we make

[1:22:18] Trustee Middleton: to council as a whole,

[1:22:21] Trustee Middleton: but step one would be getting them

[1:22:22] Trustee Middleton: to the governance committee, I believe.

[1:22:27] Trustee Gedye: Okay, so we have a meeting scheduled for May

[1:22:32] Trustee Gedye: and that would be very, very tight in terms

[1:22:37] Trustee Gedye: if the consultants are available

[1:22:39] Trustee Gedye: and we've managed to get ourselves organized

[1:22:42] Trustee Gedye: to ask questions of the consultants

[1:22:43] Trustee Gedye: for our next meeting in May,

[1:22:47] Trustee Gedye: that would probably not give us enough time

[1:22:49] Trustee Gedye: to have sorted out who, what, and how

[1:22:54] Trustee Gedye: with the Trust Council

[1:22:56] Trustee Gedye: in terms of what our presentation would be

[1:22:59] Trustee Gedye: on this governance review.

[1:23:01] Trustee Gedye: So that would put us into September, I believe.

[1:23:04] Trustee Gedye: leave. So there's, but that doubt is an idea for the timeline. Trustee Bernardo?

[1:23:14] Voice 6: Yeah, the timing is what it is. I mean, how much we can do about it. I, given what I heard before,

[1:23:22] Voice 6: I am going to make the motion and we'll see where the chips fall. I move that the consultants who

[1:23:28] Voice 6: authored the governance report be invited to attend the next governance committee meeting

[1:23:33] Voice 6: to answer questions and to brief the committee.

[1:23:43] Trustee Gedye: Seconder?

[1:23:44] Trustee Middleton: I'll second that. Thank you.

[1:23:48] Trustee Gedye: Any comments on the motion?

[1:23:58] Trustee Gedye: CAO,

[1:23:59] Voice 3: oh sorry, Trustee Givereau. Yeah, my only comment

[1:24:03] Voice 3: is that if we do bring them to this governance committee meeting

[1:24:06] Voice 3: that costs money, and then we bring them back to trust council, that'll cost

[1:24:11] Voice 3: money again, and we are in the middle of our budget cycle

[1:24:15] Voice 3: where we're trying to make cuts is it the best decision i'm not i'm not questioning the decision

[1:24:20] Voice 3: i just want to make sure that i point that out

[1:24:25] Trustee Gedye: cao hudson pillar any comments with respect to

[1:24:29] Trustee Gedye: either costs or timing um anything else not

[1:24:37] Voice 12: really um i don't know whether it's you know i think you

[1:24:41] Voice 12: should talk about whether you need to listen to the consultants and then be determinative to tell

[1:24:46] Voice 12: trust council what it wants to what your recommendations are or not that influences

[1:24:52] Voice 12: how much time you need between talking to the consultant and then bringing the conversation

[1:24:56] Voice 12: to trust council i don't think you should take six more months to have a comp you know frankly

[1:25:01] Voice 12: a conversation about the governance review um into september or december of next year um

[1:25:08] Voice 12: so uh just in terms of the resolution uh that the consultants that authored the governance

[1:25:14] Voice 12: and I just want to follow up with the trustee Bernardo just to get it on the screen too.

[1:25:23] Voice 6: No, just the next governance committee meeting.

[1:25:26] Voice 6: Okay.

[1:25:29] Voice 6: To answer questions and brief the committee.

[1:25:37] Voice 12: We can certainly, and just back to your question, Chair Getty,

[1:25:40] Voice 12: we can certainly reach out to them and see what's available.

[1:25:44] Voice 12: And I feel that we could communicate with the governance committee through email

[1:25:48] Voice 12: and update them as to the progress of that.

[1:25:50] Voice 12: right

[1:25:51] Trustee Gedye: um so i'm going to ask that this before the consultants show up that this committee

[1:26:00] Trustee Gedye: undertake to look at that tape of the march the 8th 22 meeting presentation and i had a problem

[1:26:09] Trustee Gedye: trying to figure out what the documents were that she was um marie antoinette was going through in

[1:26:15] Trustee Gedye: terms of um she was saying i'm on page 12 now i'm on page 18 whatever it didn't appear to be

[1:26:22] Trustee Gedye: attached to the agenda so if we could hunt that up as well i believe

[1:26:27] Trustee Gedye: we have the powerpoint

[1:26:28] Voice 12: madam chair from that meeting okay

[1:26:31] Trustee Gedye: so we've got a motion on the floor is there any more discussion

[1:26:39] Trustee Gedye: okay call the vote all those in favor okay let's see five

[1:26:52] Voice 10: six in favor yeah

[1:26:54] Trustee Gedye: okay and there's two

[1:26:56] Trustee Gedye: Two people absent, and Peter did not vote.

[1:27:03] Trustee Gedye: All right, so that would be unanimous at this point.

[1:27:09] Trustee Gedye: All right, so I'm going to assume that we have,

[1:27:15] Trustee Gedye: we're going to have that meeting with the consultants

[1:27:18] Trustee Gedye: before we work any further in terms of what, who, what, when.

[1:27:25] Trustee Gedye: We're going to present to Trust Council,

[1:27:28] Trustee Gedye: mindful of um russ's idea that it's this is delaying things a considerable amount

[1:27:36] Trustee Gedye: lee thank

[1:27:41] Trustee Middleton: you just a quick administrative matter i seem to have not recorded the name

[1:27:45] Trustee Middleton: sorry the date in may for the next meeting do do do we have that available i

[1:27:51] Trustee Gedye: believe it was

[1:27:52] Trustee Gedye: may the 20th i looked that up yesterday but i

[1:28:04] Trustee Middleton: think that's the that's victoria day um trustee

[1:28:08] Voice 16: it's may

[1:28:08] Voice 16: 13th yeah yeah and

[1:28:19] Trustee Gedye: then there's a june council meeting and then there's um i can't

[1:28:22] Trustee Gedye: remember what our meetings are after that but um so we should um is it the the um desire of this

[1:28:34] Trustee Gedye: committee to meet with the consultants first and then do more planning on presentation to the trust

[1:28:39] Trustee Gedye: council after we've talked to them yeah all

[1:28:47] Trustee Gedye: right so then well

[1:28:49] Voice 6: it's to answer that if i can answer

[1:28:51] Voice 6: that i had my hand just answer that question um you know i i don't know why we have to do

[1:29:00] Voice 6: deal with this in such a linear fashion why can't we do i mean we have been working with this report

[1:29:06] Voice 6: and it's valuable to get the input from the consultants but by making that motion

[1:29:13] Voice 6: i'm not suggesting that we're like you know we're waiting on bated breath and we're chained to

[1:29:18] Voice 6: absolute you know we can't think for ourselves until we we get the blessing of these guys i mean

[1:29:23] Voice 6: I think we can work on a presentation between now and the time that we meet with the consultants, and we may well decide between now and then that you might have an interim report or discussion with the Trust Council, and then another one after we talk to the consultants.

[1:29:39] Voice 6: I don't know, but I think we can do some of the work, quite a bit of the work in terms of the presentation beforehand.

[1:29:46] Voice 6: And what I have in mind there is amongst ourselves from the beginning on this committee, we haven't had that discussion about what we think about the recommendations and the analysis.

[1:30:00] Voice 6: and we can have that discussion anytime.

[1:30:03] Voice 6: And in fact, if we have that discussion

[1:30:06] Voice 6: before the consultants come,

[1:30:08] Voice 6: we will be better prepared to ask them hard questions.

[1:30:11] Voice 6: So I would say that, you know,

[1:30:13] Voice 6: we don't sit around on our hands waiting for these guys.

[1:30:15] Voice 6: Like, yeah, let's start thinking,

[1:30:17] Voice 6: let's think about, you know,

[1:30:19] Voice 6: what are the hard points that we want to bring up

[1:30:21] Voice 6: at this juncture based on our experience

[1:30:23] Voice 6: that we think, hard points that we think

[1:30:25] Voice 6: need to be brought up before trust counsel.

[1:30:30] Voice 6: and see where we get with that.

[1:30:31] Voice 6: And then certainly, you know,

[1:30:32] Voice 6: we may or may not bring it to Trust Council

[1:30:34] Voice 6: before they see the consultants,

[1:30:35] Voice 6: but at least we'll be well prepared

[1:30:38] Voice 6: when we do see the consultants.

[1:30:42] Trustee Gedye: We had all of those discussions

[1:30:45] Trustee Gedye: from our first three or four meetings.

[1:30:48] Trustee Gedye: So it's not that we haven't done it.

[1:30:50] Trustee Gedye: But I do think, yes, I agree.

[1:30:53] Trustee Gedye: We need to refresh ourselves on that.

[1:30:55] Voice 6: Well, just

[1:30:56] Voice 6: a clarification there, Chair.

[1:30:59] Voice 6: sorry to interrupt but we talked about the recommendations but my clear recollection is

[1:31:04] Voice 6: that time is but we fell very quickly into prioritizing the recommendations as opposed

[1:31:09] Voice 6: to applying critical analysis to them which might have resulted in us ditching some of the

[1:31:15] Voice 6: recommendations or actually taking some of those recommendations apart and doing it our own way

[1:31:19] Voice 6: we didn't really critically analyze the recommendations that's still waiting we were

[1:31:25] Trustee Gedye: pretty green when we've started okay chair luckham i'm

[1:31:31] Trustee Luckham: uh fully behind uh joe bernardo here in let's

[1:31:36] Trustee Luckham: do the preparation work in order to prepare us to ask the hard questions what when and if the

[1:31:42] Trustee Luckham: consultant uh comes before us um and indeed uh in your remarks there trust uh chair getty um

[1:31:49] Trustee Luckham: indeed we have done some of that work and those notes were all submitted to the to the body

[1:31:54] Trustee Luckham: and I think we can review those.

[1:31:57] Trustee Luckham: We've learned a little bit more since.

[1:31:58] Trustee Luckham: And then new member, Trustee Gavreau,

[1:32:03] Trustee Luckham: should also have the opportunity

[1:32:04] Trustee Luckham: to contribute to that conversation.

[1:32:06] Trustee Luckham: So let's bring that back, refresh it,

[1:32:09] Trustee Luckham: refresh our thoughts and be prepared

[1:32:11] Trustee Luckham: to indeed have some consensus

[1:32:14] Trustee Luckham: around the hard questions that we want to ask

[1:32:17] Trustee Luckham: when we have the consultant in front of us.

[1:32:21] Trustee Luckham: That's in parallel.

[1:32:23] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:32:24] Trustee Gedye: okay so what's the timing on that we've got a whole bunch of material and um you know we don't

[1:32:31] Trustee Gedye: meet that very frequently so this is february the next one is may with the council meeting in between

[1:32:38] Trustee Gedye: so um trying to organize this chair luckham well

[1:32:44] Trustee Luckham: to be honest the sooner the better and um

[1:32:49] Trustee Luckham: i'm hesitant to say if we need to have a special meeting to

[1:32:52] Trustee Luckham: for this preparation then let's have it but let's determine what the availability of the consultant

[1:32:58] Trustee Luckham: is and then provide us a window of opportunity to engage them as soon as possible um and um and

[1:33:05] Trustee Luckham: then have that preparatory meeting because quite honestly council is hungry um for us to take

[1:33:12] Trustee Luckham: action on some of these items particularly going to the province particularly for asking for more

[1:33:17] Trustee Luckham: more money and um uh i think putting it off uh for putting some of this initial work off um is not

[1:33:25] Trustee Luckham: helpful um to the confidence of council and it's certainly not meeting the interests of council so

[1:33:31] Trustee Luckham: the sooner we can arrange this the better

[1:33:34] Voice 6: trustee

[1:33:35] Trustee Gedye: bernardo uh

[1:33:36] Voice 6: yeah i like uh trustee

[1:33:38] Voice 6: luckman's suggestion here and this is a terrible precedent we're agreeing too much um the uh i like

[1:33:45] Voice 6: his suggestion that if we need to let's have a special meeting and indeed you know uh as

[1:33:52] Voice 6: he mentioned if the consultants are available we might well have a special meeting for that

[1:33:59] Voice 6: purpose alone just to to do that briefing and uh and doing that before may 29th and then that helps

[1:34:07] Voice 6: us in the preparation piece of it so that might work thank you um

[1:34:16] Trustee Gedye: i understood that we were talking

[1:34:18] Trustee Gedye: about preparation for the consultants as well so um cao hudson pillar well

[1:34:27] Voice 12: madam chair just to to

[1:34:28] Voice 12: get to the point uh or to understand it you're asking for a meeting with the consultants we'll

[1:34:34] Voice 12: focus on the may 13th meeting i think that's when it is and i'll look for a time that's mutually

[1:34:40] Voice 12: beneficial for a special meeting some week or two before that where you could sit um as a group just

[1:34:47] Voice 12: focused on this topic prepare yourselves for having that conversation and then depending

[1:34:53] Voice 12: upon the outcome you will then go let's take this to trust council or not or take something to trust

[1:35:00] Voice 12: council or not or is so that's part one that's just my understanding where the conversation's

[1:35:05] Voice 12: going or do you want to get something going to june trust council either way you're thinking

[1:35:12] Voice 12: or not so out of this meeting you know give me some direction there for how I can assist you

[1:35:18] Voice 12: but otherwise we'll canvas you later we'll check the consultant's availability and then we'll

[1:35:26] Voice 12: canvas you as to when would be a time a week or two or something before that meeting for you to

[1:35:31] Voice 12: prepare good

[1:35:33] Trustee Gedye: trustee Middleton yeah

[1:35:37] Trustee Middleton: thanks for that so based on that timing what I would suggest

[1:35:41] Trustee Middleton: is we actually have the special meeting with the consultants so that the May 13th or the May

[1:35:49] Trustee Middleton: meeting date, we can actually prepare a package to go to trust counseling in June. Because I think

[1:35:56] Trustee Middleton: everybody has their minds fairly well set on what they think about the recommendations in the

[1:36:02] Trustee Middleton: governance report. I mean, except in everyone's editorial comments that we get into, fair enough.

[1:36:08] Trustee Middleton: off. So I don't know that there's that much work needed to be done before engaging with the

[1:36:12] Trustee Middleton: consultants. It actually, if we have a conversation amongst ourselves, I think we wouldn't get the

[1:36:18] Trustee Middleton: best benefit without actually having access to them to bounce these questions off or, as you say,

[1:36:24] Trustee Middleton: ask the hard questions. So I would suggest the special meeting be the one with the consultants.

[1:36:31] Trustee Middleton: And then in May, we actually craft for ourselves what we want to send forward to Trust Council.

[1:36:36] Trustee Middleton: council okay

[1:36:40] Trustee Gedye: um we've spent an hour and a half now um organizing this a little bit um if we

[1:36:47] Trustee Gedye: we have a meeting scheduled for may the 13th and organizing a consultant to um we're already

[1:36:55] Trustee Gedye: organized and have it in our calendars to to ask a specific date about the consultants that's easier

[1:37:01] Trustee Gedye: than organizing all of us and the consultants it seems to me in terms of a special meeting before

[1:37:06] Trustee Gedye: for that so um just logistically i think that um do we need to um are we each going to prepare

[1:37:18] Trustee Gedye: ourselves in the questions that we would ask the consultants without having any discussion

[1:37:23] Trustee Gedye: amongst ourselves in terms of how to best use that time um sorry chair muckham your hands up

[1:37:31] Trustee Gedye: I

[1:37:32] Trustee Luckham: prefer the latter. I think that, of course, the dilemma, you know, ideally we work as a committee, and committees do recommendations, you know.

[1:37:45] Trustee Luckham: And in this particular case, as working as a committee, we sort of need to have some

[1:37:51] Trustee Luckham: basic framework to work around and know amongst ourselves what are the avenues that we want

[1:37:59] Trustee Luckham: to pursue more wholeheartedly and others that we don't want to die on that hill, so

[1:38:04] Trustee Luckham: to speak, because although each of us might have our own individual points of view, I

[1:38:11] Trustee Luckham: think we need to come to some consensus about a shared perspective on this and indeed even sway

[1:38:18] Trustee Luckham: some of us to join one side or the other in order to strengthen that resolve to do this work. So I

[1:38:26] Trustee Luckham: think there's real value in what hasn't happened is for us to have that conversation. We certainly

[1:38:32] Trustee Luckham: put together our thoughts and we discussed them, but really we didn't dig into that very much.

[1:38:37] Trustee Luckham: We just kind of received it at face value. And I think if we're hiring, we're spending money on hiring a consultant, we want to make the most effective use of their time by knowing what the most important areas of clarification that we require in order to get that information.

[1:38:55] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, come to council and bring the consultant to council as well.

[1:39:00] Trustee Luckham: But I think there's a necessity to do some homework here and be respectful of the time and cost associated with engaging with the consultant.

[1:39:11] Trustee Luckham: I really think a pre-meeting to the May meeting, ideally where the consultant attends, would be ideal.

[1:39:20] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:39:23] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo.

[1:39:24] Trustee Gedye: Yeah,

[1:39:26] Voice 6: to answer the question you asked before, you know, this organization, we do a tremendous amount of throat clearing before we do anything.

[1:39:35] Voice 6: There is this timidity about simply taking action and a lack of confidence in our ability to sort of adapt to circumstances.

[1:39:44] Voice 6: I see no need whatsoever for this committee to spend a whole bunch of time

[1:39:52] Voice 6: nattering back and forth with each other about what questions should be asked of the consultants.

[1:39:59] Voice 6: We're all on this committee to exercise our best judgment and to bring our analysis to it.

[1:40:04] Voice 6: Every other in this committee is entitled to ask the consultant whatever questions they want.

[1:40:09] Voice 6: We should prepare, much as I dread it.

[1:40:14] Voice 6: yes all of us before we meet with that consultant ought to listen to that watch that tape we ought

[1:40:19] Voice 6: to reread the report we ought to reread the notes that we prepared at the outset that will refresh

[1:40:27] Voice 6: our memories about the issues and concerns that we have and we ought to come to that meeting prepare

[1:40:32] Voice 6: to ask questions but i think it's going to be most fruitful if everybody shows up ask their questions

[1:40:37] Voice 6: And you're going to have a richer discussion if you do it that way.

[1:40:44] Voice 6: And if we try to have some pre-meeting where we're sitting around going back and forth, we're not going to uncover anything new.

[1:40:52] Voice 6: We've had a year of that pre-meeting.

[1:40:54] Voice 6: That's what we've been doing.

[1:40:56] Voice 6: Thank you.

[1:40:58] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:40:59] Trustee Gedye: So your suggestion then is that we do our homework, look at all the stuff that's been written, look at the tape, formulate our own questions.

[1:41:08] Trustee Gedye: have the consultants and then we can that's a three-hour meeting that we have scheduled and

[1:41:14] Trustee Gedye: then continue with our whatever our planning is going to be for presentation as

[1:41:20] Voice 6: i mentioned before

[1:41:20] Voice 6: my suggestion is let's take up trustee luckham's suggestion let's have a special meeting before

[1:41:25] Voice 6: the next general one and before that meeting everybody does their homework what

[1:41:29] Trustee Gedye: are we doing

[1:41:30] Trustee Gedye: at the special meeting we're

[1:41:32] Voice 6: going to hear from the consultants and we're

[1:41:35] Trustee Gedye: going to ask a bunch

[1:41:36] Trustee Gedye: of questions okay so we don't have a time that we're asking the consultants okay trustee harris

[1:41:45] Voice 5: i i just agree with that i you know i i don't think we need to spend time

[1:41:49] Voice 5: um debating which questions we should ask and i'm all for the homework and watching the video and

[1:41:56] Voice 5: rereading the review okay

[1:42:00] Trustee Gedye: anybody else trustee middleton yeah

[1:42:08] Trustee Middleton: i i support the special meeting

[1:42:10] Trustee Middleton: with the consultants i think it gets us uh you know as chair luck had talked about the confidence

[1:42:16] Trustee Middleton: uh that has been placed in us by trust council this gets us um uh gets some wind in our sails

[1:42:23] Trustee Middleton: and will allow us to do some more in may that we can then present to trust council in june

[1:42:30] Trustee Middleton: but it's key that we have that special meeting before the main meeting with the

[1:42:33] Trustee Middleton: so

[1:42:39] Trustee Gedye: then i guess uh is there consensus on that that we try to find out when the consultants

[1:42:46] Trustee Gedye: are available and when all of us are available for a special meeting between now and may

[1:42:51] Trustee Gedye: i trustee stamford sorry

[1:42:58] Trustee Stamford: i i kept hearing two different things and then um um trustee middleton

[1:43:03] Trustee Stamford: cut out are we having a special meeting to talk about questions are we having a special meeting

[1:43:08] Trustee Stamford: to bring the consultants in to just ask the questions we've come up with by ourselves

[1:43:14] Trustee Stamford: the latter great thank you so

[1:43:20] Voice 12: madam chair we've got a motion here that isn't that motion

[1:43:23] Voice 12: um so be asked to attend the next governance committee meeting so is it to be changed to

[1:43:32] Voice 12: and please don't do this to me make me rewrite this thing six times for a simple idea but

[1:43:37] Voice 12: but is it being changed to organize a special meeting

[1:43:40] Voice 12: to ask the consultants to attend?

[1:43:44] Voice 12: Is that where, that's what I'm hearing.

[1:43:46] Trustee Gedye: It has morphed into the latter, yeah.

[1:43:49] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo.

[1:43:51] Voice 6: Yes, it has morphed into the latter

[1:43:52] Voice 6: and the resolution probably has to have, you know,

[1:43:58] Voice 6: something about staff scheduling a special meeting,

[1:44:01] Voice 6: blah, blah, blah,

[1:44:02] Voice 6: before the next regularly scheduled meeting,

[1:44:05] Voice 6: something along those lines.

[1:44:07] Voice 6: And I can't remember, we are,

[1:44:10] Voice 6: i can't remember have we voted on this we have already have we you

[1:44:13] Voice 12: have voted on it that's

[1:44:15] Voice 12: we've we've returned to the question can

[1:44:18] Voice 6: do we resolve this by having another resolution that

[1:44:21] Voice 6: schedules the next meeting which is turns out to be a special meeting yes uh

[1:44:30] Voice 6: i move that uh the

[1:44:33] Voice 6: uh governance or i move that the governance committee asks staff to schedule a special

[1:44:40] Voice 6: special meeting for the purpose of hearing the consultants who authored the governance report.

[1:45:15] Voice 6: Yeah, the consultants who authored the governance report and that the meeting be scheduled before

[1:45:41] Voice 6: the next regularly scheduled meeting of the committee. Okay. If anybody has any suggestions,

[1:46:05] Voice 6: I'll take them on as, well, if I like them, I'll take them on as friendly amendments.

[1:46:10] Trustee Patrick: trustee patrick the the consultant was a team of consultants they did governance and they also

[1:46:19] Trustee Patrick: brought in eric vance who is a land use planning expert um i i i think i'm we're having questions

[1:46:28] Trustee Patrick: about the parts of the consulting team that really deal with organizational governance

[1:46:35] Trustee Patrick: is that so I think we should be clear when we request the consultant are they reassembling

[1:46:41] Trustee Patrick: their entire team and we're going to spend you know a lot of time talking about land use planning

[1:46:47] Trustee Patrick: departments or are we talking about governance of the organization so I think I'm hearing

[1:46:52] Trustee Patrick: governance and I think we should just

[1:46:53] Trustee Patrick: be clear when we make that request if

[1:46:55] Voice 6: I may speak that

[1:46:56] Voice 6: is a useful clarification but I don't think we can micro I don't think we need to micromanage

[1:47:02] Voice 6: through the resolution provided if if we simply transmit that to staff we've asked staff to

[1:47:09] Voice 6: schedule the meeting uh you know if we just simply make it clear to staff that that that we have that

[1:47:14] Voice 6: distinction in mind that we want the consultants to be coming to speak to the governance issues

[1:47:18] Voice 6: not the land planning issues i'm sure staff can simply deal with it when they when they connect

[1:47:22] Voice 6: with the consultants and not all of them will be able probably to show up but trustee patrick's

[1:47:29] Voice 6: made an important point yeah let's make sure the consultants understand the purpose of the meetings

[1:47:34] Voice 6: talked about the governance issues i'm sure staff can make that clear thank you i'm

[1:47:39] Trustee Gedye: not sure what

[1:47:40] Trustee Gedye: their roles were in the whole process but um mary antoinette flumian and james roach were the ones

[1:47:45] Trustee Gedye: that spoke to the um the recommendations most of the time eric vance um i'd be most interested in

[1:47:53] Trustee Gedye: him he was really i thought what he had to say was excellent but um it is mostly planning and

[1:47:59] Trustee Gedye: Charles Kelly is the organizer of the team, but he made very few comments, as did Sylvain Dubois.

[1:48:09] Trustee Gedye: So he was the federal, the expert in terms of federal governance structures.

[1:48:16] Trustee Gedye: And he made a lot of comments in terms of the public service aspect.

[1:48:22] Trustee Gedye: But, so I'm thinking it's Mary Ann Pounette-Lumien and James Roach that we're primarily interested in.

[1:48:30] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, Trustee Gavril.

[1:48:36] Voice 3: Yes, thank you.

[1:48:38] Voice 3: Right on, yeah.

[1:48:39] Voice 3: Charles Keldy was the project manager, so I imagine they would be here.

[1:48:42] Voice 3: I agree with Laura that if we brought in the land use planner that it might kind of take the, be a very long conversation.

[1:48:50] Voice 3: I also suggest that we reach out to Great Northern and see if they actually are available and if that team that offered that offered this report is actually still with that firm.

[1:49:00] Voice 3: I know that people do move around quite a bit, but maybe we need to reach out first and establish what dates they would be available, make sure that we can be there. A little bit of coordination first.

[1:49:11] Voice 3: Trustee Middleton?

[1:49:14] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. Yes, I concur that I think Mary Antoinette Fleming and I know is still working half of the month with the Musqueam Nation and Sailor Tooth on their governance issues.

[1:49:25] Trustee Middleton: So she's she's working and I'm sure available as is Jim Roche.

[1:49:29] Trustee Middleton: I believe Charles Kelly is retired. But as Trustee Gavro said, he played the role of project manager.

[1:49:35] Trustee Middleton: interest so he doesn't he won't really be the person who will be speaking to the report would

[1:49:40] Trustee Middleton: be the primary authors which would be mary and jim roche and then sylvan dubois was their legal

[1:49:46] Trustee Middleton: uh consultant uh who was the um uh secretary of the privy council at one point and um he he

[1:49:55] Trustee Middleton: they went to him to get a legal opinion on on uh on matters of law but he he wasn't an author of

[1:50:03] Trustee Middleton: of the report so I don't anticipate that he would be brought in so I think I echo from my

[1:50:09] Trustee Middleton: understanding of working with them that that's who would probably come and I believe both would

[1:50:14] Trustee Middleton: be available can't speak to timing but I know that we're still working Jim Roshan Merrington

[1:50:18] Trustee Middleton: well can

[1:50:24] Voice 6: we just leave the logistics to the staff so

[1:50:28] Trustee Gedye: we have this motion um do we have a seconder

[1:50:31] Trustee Gedye: okay trustee stamford and oh you're

[1:50:45] Voice 6: muted chair yeah

[1:50:47] Trustee Gedye: okay i didn't see lee's hand up sorry um

[1:50:50] Trustee Gedye: all right so any further discussion all right i'm going to call the vote all those in favor

[1:50:58] Trustee Gedye: that looks unanimous thank you hi tim all right so um what do we do about the first motion

[1:51:16] Voice 6: they're not contradictory let's just move on i

[1:51:22] Voice 10: mean the overlap i get it

[1:51:23] Voice 7: i think

[1:51:25] Voice 10: we're okay i think we're okay you're

[1:51:31] Voice 6: muted again chair i

[1:51:33] Trustee Gedye: got a dog that's barking

[1:51:34] Trustee Gedye: in the background sorry i'm going to suggest we take a break we've got the lawyers scheduled to

[1:51:39] Trustee Gedye: show up at 11 and um we reconvene back in what is that about uh 10 minutes from now

[1:51:47] Voice 12: so let me just madam chair um alexander are you on this call i

[1:51:53] Voice 16: am are

[1:51:54] Voice 12: we moving to a separate

[1:51:55] Voice 12: zoom or is this the zoom we're going to have the in-camera session in this

[1:51:58] Voice 16: is the uh same zoom

[1:52:00] Voice 16: we'll have the camera

[1:52:01] Voice 16: we'll just stop the

[1:52:02] Voice 16: recording and everything so let's take a break

[1:52:04] Voice 16: and then let the lawyer join and then we'll go to the in-camera motion before excellent

[1:52:10] Voice 10: okay just

[1:52:11] Voice 10: want to make sure that was um all figured out sure getty thank

[1:52:17] Trustee Gedye: you okay all right take a break

[1:52:21] Trustee Gedye: See you at 11.

[1:59:32] Voice 9: Hey, Alyssa.

[1:59:33] Voice 9: Russ here.

[1:59:36] Voice 8: Hello.

[1:59:36] Voice 8: Good

[1:59:37] Voice 9: to see you.

[1:59:37] Voice 9: Good to see you.

[1:59:40] Voice 16: So, Russ, if you bring up the motion on the agenda to go on camera.

[1:59:52] Voice 12: Okay, from the package?

[1:59:54] Voice 16: Yeah, the first page.

[1:59:57] Voice 12: Everyone close their eyes as I whip through.

[2:00:00] Voice 12: this thing there

[2:00:05] Voice 16: okay

[2:00:16] Voice 7: okay

[2:00:51] Trustee Gedye: we've got a quorum i'm going to call the meeting back to order it is uh

[2:00:55] Trustee Gedye: 11 o'clock um and um we have alicia bradley here to help us with our

[2:01:14] Trustee Gedye: um legal opinion so are we in closed at this point no

[2:01:19] Voice 12: madam cherry if you look on the screen

[2:01:21] Voice 12: item 11 closed meeting all right if we made that

[2:01:24] Voice 12: motion then we would be able to go into camera

[2:01:26] Voice 12: and i'll put the closed agenda up on the screen okay

[2:01:29] Trustee Gedye: i included that in the um consent agenda

[2:01:32] Trustee Gedye: so that's already been approved okay

[2:01:35] Voice 12: and so alex we'll just have to stop the live stream

[2:01:40] Voice 16: yes just one moment okay we're good to go thank

[2:01:43] Trustee Gedye: you okay we're coming back into the open meeting

[2:01:46] Trustee Gedye: and the only item that's left in this agenda i believe is the update of the matrix um so that's

[2:01:53] Trustee Gedye: It's page 14 of our agenda.

[2:01:57] Trustee Gedye: Is there anything, first of all, that needs to be added?

[2:02:01] Trustee Gedye: Oh, corporate planning.

[2:02:03] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, I forgot that too.

[2:02:05] Voice 11: I could do a very brief update if you wish, Madam Chair.

[2:02:09] Trustee Gedye: Let's do that first.

[2:02:13] Voice 12: Thanks very much.

[2:02:15] Voice 12: I really just want to appeal to Governance Committee to get behind,

[2:02:19] Voice 12: I think it is a reasonable decision of your subgroup,

[2:02:24] Voice 12: your sub-FPC group in the Executive Committee to Advance Corporate Planning, and that is after

[2:02:29] Voice 12: having worked on the mission, worked on the vision, undertaking a SWOT analysis that we're really at

[2:02:34] Voice 12: step four, determining and prioritizing goals and objectives. We've gone to some lengths to

[2:02:39] Voice 12: organize a conversation for Trust Council, the one that was delayed from last year,

[2:02:44] Voice 12: around its long-range goals. I think we've hired someone who's got a lot of experience.

[2:02:49] Voice 12: experience we didn't have a long window but we pitched the idea and we've got someone from

[2:02:56] Voice 12: WCS engagement and planning experience facilitator that's going to help you have that conversation

[2:03:02] Voice 12: so that's that's scheduled for this upcoming meeting we've sent out a survey for you to just

[2:03:06] Voice 12: get some of these ideas out and I'm really hoping that this is broad far-reaching not overly led

[2:03:14] Voice 12: and it really you're just going to get the a tidied up version of the SWAT that will go to

[2:03:20] Voice 12: all trustees in the package by the way the package is getting sent out later today hence the speed

[2:03:25] Voice 12: by which I'm talking and then once we've got that out there we'll collate those results and

[2:03:33] Voice 12: we'll bring it back to you and it actually in the session and then the next three months it is

[2:03:38] Voice 12: is um very important and that is if we can land on some of these key initiatives

[2:03:45] Voice 12: determining reasonable implementation strategies and actions which leads to the to the core part

[2:03:52] Voice 12: of the corporate planning process and that is how are those things budgeted

[2:03:56] Voice 12: how are those things monitored and how do we at the end of the day we see measure success

[2:04:02] Voice 12: so that's part two of strategy implementation will be the next couple months of work going

[2:04:07] Voice 12: into June and hopefully in June there'd be a reveal around some of what um what some of those

[2:04:12] Voice 12: initiate initiatives would be and that would start to flow into the budget process

[2:04:17] Voice 12: so I just want to give you a brief update make that appeal for your uh your strong support of

[2:04:23] Voice 12: that session that's coming up um and the group has met a couple times since you've last met

[2:04:28] Voice 12: and once we've met here um I might meet with the the subgroup next week um it may perhaps

[2:04:34] Voice 12: perhaps introduce them to the consultant, but then we'll move forward.

[2:04:39] Voice 12: So Madam Chair, back to you.

[2:04:40] Trustee Gedye: Thank you. Any questions? All right.

[2:04:48] Trustee Gedye: So the report to the Trust Council,

[2:04:53] Trustee Gedye: that was the other new item that came in.

[2:04:55] Trustee Gedye: So we last reported in December and we've had one meeting,

[2:05:01] Trustee Gedye: two meetings since January 15th and today.

[2:05:03] Trustee Gedye: so to bring them up to date um we we have had a conversation on compensation two requests of staff

[2:05:11] Trustee Gedye: and the follow-up action list says that we're going to get reports on that in may um section

[2:05:19] Trustee Gedye: three communications i i haven't checked the website but i'm assuming um i'm told that it's

[2:05:24] Trustee Gedye: been completed so that was the cleaning up of the section three communications and the other

[2:05:30] Trustee Gedye: point was the cao hiring committee so there's um i think three of us as chairs there's a four

[2:05:38] Trustee Gedye: members of the executive committee governance committee financial planning

[2:05:42] Trustee Gedye: um and the planning and programs committee are all excuse me the hiring committee so that's

[2:05:52] Trustee Gedye: three or four of us here and we don't it's interesting we don't have a representative

[2:05:57] Trustee Gedye: on the islands trust uh conservancy on that and i meant to bring that up with lisa to see whether

[2:06:03] Trustee Gedye: or not that was of concern to that committee but um most of the meetings have been closed

[2:06:08] Trustee Gedye: uh there's was a rise of report from the last meeting with respect to um us having consulted

[2:06:15] Trustee Gedye: with public service people and that we've created a request for proposals to hire a

[2:06:22] Trustee Gedye: consultant for the hiring process and we've got a business plan that's coming into the

[2:06:27] Trustee Gedye: March meeting with respect to budget allocation for that yeah and we've got today's legal report

[2:06:38] Trustee Gedye: about open meetings so I'm not sure how we report on a closed meeting to the trust council but

[2:06:45] Trustee Gedye: But I'll work with Russ in terms of trying to figure that out and when.

[2:06:54] Trustee Gedye: So the other thing that was left was the matrix.

[2:06:59] Trustee Gedye: So anything to add to that report to Trust Council?

[2:07:05] Trustee Gedye: I think there's a form that has to be filled out.

[2:07:07] Trustee Gedye: So I can do that and provide that to this committee, if you want, before it goes to Council.

[2:07:15] Trustee Gedye: Joe?

[2:07:16] Trustee Gedye: Yeah,

[2:07:17] Voice 6: I think when we report to Trust Council, we should report on the big discussion we had this morning or earlier this morning about drawing a dividing line between dealing with the governance review and approaching the province and basically the report and the take home message from where we landed at the end of that discussion.

[2:07:39] Voice 6: because that's actually a pretty important direction we've chosen and

[2:07:45] Voice 6: that's actually ends up being essentially a recommendation that we're

[2:07:49] Voice 6: making the Trust Council that it to follow our advice that we do it that way

[2:07:53] Voice 6: right

[2:07:54] Trustee Gedye: I had it on my list of things to report back and I crossed it out because

[2:07:59] Trustee Gedye: it was linked to June but um well um I'll report out on today okay so the

[2:08:08] Trustee Gedye: the matrix um the part about the meeting process bylaw 101 and policies we've we um got snagged

[2:08:18] Trustee Gedye: on the open meeting and the existence of committees um i'm not sure that we've have

[2:08:24] Trustee Gedye: actually looked at bylaw 101 and any other related policies but i think that is close

[2:08:29] Trustee Gedye: to coming out of the matrix and um the rest stays the um ex officio might um when we bring

[2:08:41] Trustee Gedye: that up that might change the not immediate but important about the part of the question

[2:08:47] Trustee Gedye: about committees um any other anybody want to change anything oh sorry laura

[2:08:59] Trustee Patrick: trust council at the december i guess was the last time we met uh i think gave director marler

[2:09:07] Trustee Patrick: are agreed with director marler to update the meeting procedure bylaws um bylaws sorry policies

[2:09:16] Trustee Patrick: um it i mean we're the governance committee should we not be we're seeing that draft or

[2:09:24] Trustee Patrick: having some input into that draft before it goes to trust council wouldn't i mean that's maybe not

[2:09:30] Trustee Patrick: how it was directed or do we just stay out of it and we remove it off our matrix so i said i think

[2:09:35] Trustee Patrick: that's one item to deal with and then the other item i'd have question is the committee i think

[2:09:40] Trustee Patrick: there's two parts to the committee issue and one is just a review of procedures and practices um

[2:09:46] Trustee Patrick: and is that a higher priority

[2:09:53] Trustee Gedye: all right we um we haven't emptied out the box in urgent and high

[2:10:00] Trustee Gedye: priority but we can still move things in joe yeah um

[2:10:05] Voice 6: i was um a little taken aback chair by your

[2:10:08] Voice 6: comment that we could pull the meeting maybe we could pull the meeting process out of the matrix

[2:10:12] Voice 6: um uh along the lines what trustee patrick was mentioning uh that's kind of a big deal and that's

[2:10:21] Voice 6: been a source of concern for a lot of trustees and i do appreciate that director marler has been

[2:10:26] Voice 6: working on that but i'm inclined to agree with the direction that jesse patrick was going which is

[2:10:31] Voice 6: no we're not done with it because uh the meeting process is not just a something that can be left

[2:10:40] Voice 6: as a technical issue to staff there's a question about how we run these meetings and we've had

[2:10:45] Voice 6: kind of an aborted attempt several attempts to have that discussion at trust council about

[2:10:50] Voice 6: how do we run our meetings and as trustee patrick pointed out that really is something that

[2:10:57] Voice 6: governance committee can be helpful to trust council with and so i would i don't think we

[2:11:02] Voice 6: can take it out of out of the matrix i think it remains an important thing that we need to

[2:11:06] Voice 6: be working with director marler and actually banging out some of our own ideas on a policy

[2:11:11] Voice 6: basis about what we think will work well for meetings on that point and i think uh

[2:11:19] Voice 6: the chairman agree with me as my trustee patrick it has been very interesting to me to watch how

[2:11:25] Voice 6: the how effective uh the hiring committee has been so far what seems to be making it effective

[2:11:31] Voice 6: is that we have meetings that have a limited agenda with very specific concrete things that

[2:11:36] Voice 6: need to be done and we're able to focus on what matters and make a decision and move on to the

[2:11:42] Voice 6: next thing uh it's got something to do with uh the need to sort of air out issues before we decide

[2:11:51] Voice 6: them and we error them out and then we decide them and then we move on to the next thing.

[2:11:56] Voice 6: I think we can learn from something like that. And it operates just a little bit differently

[2:12:01] Voice 6: than regular meetings. And I think governance committee has to do some work in that area,

[2:12:08] Voice 6: puzzling out what might be the best recommendation to make in terms of how we run these committees.

[2:12:14] Voice 6: Thank you.

[2:12:18] Trustee Gedye: I don't think I said to take it out of the matrix. I said that we had

[2:12:21] Trustee Gedye: had taken uh one part of it but um i take your point okay anything to add or delete all right

[2:12:34] Trustee Gedye: so not hearing of any oh sorry lee yes

[2:12:37] Trustee Middleton: sorry for being late on that um would we not remove

[2:12:40] Trustee Middleton: not because we're not working on it but because we've decided to separate it

[2:12:45] Trustee Middleton: into another stream of work the response to the province is that my understanding is the matrix

[2:12:51] Trustee Middleton: matrix refers to our work program from the governance review and we've just now talked

[2:12:57] Trustee Middleton: about how the response to the province which as I think the letter and the request for review

[2:13:03] Trustee Middleton: will now be treated as a separate item or do you view this matrix as sort of the overall

[2:13:08] Trustee Middleton: work program for the committee?

[2:13:13] Trustee Gedye: I believe the matrix we'd agreed was the overall work thing

[2:13:17] Trustee Gedye: and I think that the four words that are there in terms of response to the province it's much

[2:13:22] Trustee Gedye: more complicated than that um and we did divide it up earlier today um

[2:13:30] Trustee Middleton: yeah yeah exactly that's

[2:13:32] Trustee Middleton: just my question is that maybe the title of the uh matrix should be just adjusted to reflect that

[2:13:39] Trustee Middleton: it's our overall work priorities not not just the response to the governance review that's

[2:13:46] Trustee Middleton: maybe a minor thing worth tripping up right now yeah

[2:13:51] Trustee Gedye: yeah we started off as just the 15

[2:13:55] Trustee Gedye: recommendations and that's a lot of what's below it up it has morphed from that certainly

[2:14:02] Trustee Gedye: so let's just remove that title 15 recommendations of governance review and just have the matrixes

[2:14:09] Trustee Gedye: updated so

[2:14:13] Voice 12: what's that direction madam chair just so i'm clear yes

[2:14:16] Trustee Gedye: please what

[2:14:17] Voice 12: is it do

[2:14:18] Trustee Gedye: you want to

[2:14:18] Trustee Gedye: remove the 15 the title that says 15 recommendations of governance review is categorized by the

[2:14:24] Trustee Gedye: committee in february 23. take that out completely and just leave the updated um

[2:14:30] Voice 12: february 21st 2024

[2:14:35] Trustee Gedye: okay all right anything else i think we have gotten through our agenda anything else i'll

[2:14:48] Trustee Gedye: take a motion to adjourn i'll move that we adjourn this meeting can i have a seconder

[2:14:55] Trustee Gedye: joe bernardo thank you all right all in favor thank you thanks

[2:15:04] Voice 8: everyone good day

[2:15:05] Trustee Gedye: try

[2:15:06] Voice 8: and

[2:15:06] Trustee Gedye: find some of that sun