Islands Trust Governance Committee regular meeting, May 13, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 12: I'm living and working on beautiful Bowen Island,

[0:00:02] Voice 12: and it's not an issue of stewardship so much as really appreciating just how

[0:00:11] Voice 12: fabulously beautiful this place is in the context of the Aurora this past

[0:00:17] Voice 12: weekend and this absolutely beautiful weather.

[0:00:19] Voice 12: So it's, it's a wonderful place.

[0:00:25] Voice 12: We're very, very lucky to be here and I'm,

[0:00:27] Voice 12: I'm very happy to be involved in the preserve and protect.

[0:00:31] Voice 12: the ongoing stewardship and acknowledgement of everybody that is working hard in terms of that

[0:00:38] Voice 12: stewardship. So with that, that's a nice way to open a meeting. We've got an agenda before us.

[0:00:48] Voice 12: Are there any additions? Joe, you mentioned that you want to bring up something in new business?

[0:00:59] Voice 12: Yes,

[0:00:59] Voice 8: in new business, assuming we have the time for it. It's not pressing, but I think it is

[0:01:04] Voice 8: important uh because it is a governance issue uh i would if we have the time i'd like us to discuss

[0:01:10] Voice 8: the possibility of the governance committee making a recommendation trust to the trust council

[0:01:16] Voice 8: regarding the voting threshold that's appropriate for the approval of the trust policy statement

[0:01:23] Voice 8: if and whenever that comes up for a vote it's a process issue in that

[0:01:29] Voice 8: that it is quite possible that things can pass at trust council with a majority of the trustees but

[0:01:36] Voice 8: not a majority of the population of trust a majority of trustees that collectively do not

[0:01:41] Voice 8: represent a majority of the population of trust area and the discussion i'd like us to have is

[0:01:46] Voice 8: about making a recommendation that the smart thing for trust council is to commit itself to

[0:01:53] Voice 8: making sure it's not just a majority of trustees but also a majority of the population

[0:01:57] Voice 8: is represented in any affirmative vote all

[0:02:01] Voice 12: right so um we'll add that to uh item nine

[0:02:07] Voice 12: if and when we have time for it and the seed has been planted so that we can if we don't get to it

[0:02:13] Voice 12: today we can think about it both at the committee of the whole and um at a later meeting sure thank

[0:02:20] Voice 8: you thank you all

[0:02:22] Voice 12: right other than that um any other additions or reordering i don't see any

[0:02:28] Voice 12: hands up so uh can i get a motion to approve the agenda as amended i

[0:02:37] Voice 7: saw move thank

[0:02:38] Voice 12: you a seconder

[0:02:49] Voice 12: sorry i just had my phone oh boy i have two phones and i'm trying to turn one off sorry

[0:03:00] Voice 12: okay anybody here from the public with respect to um public comment period

[0:03:07] Voice 12: lori any delegations any public comment uh

[0:03:13] Voice 8: don't we have to approve the agenda

[0:03:16] Voice 12: sorry yeah we didn't vote oh sorry and all those in favor thank you any opposed

[0:03:26] Voice 12: hands down anybody opposed thank you that's carried all right um

[0:03:35] Voice 10: public comments there is

[0:03:38] Voice 10: one attendee uh present in the meeting i can turn on that person's microphone if they wish to

[0:03:44] Voice 10: address committee. Thank you.

[0:03:52] Voice 12: Is there any

[0:03:53] Voice 12: public comment? It's just coming

[0:03:55] Voice 10: on, Chair Getty.

[0:04:03] Voice 10: I'm not seeing any response. All right. Any delegations?

[0:04:09] Voice 12: No. I don't have any

[0:04:14] Voice 12: in my agenda or notice.

[0:04:18] Voice 12: The correspondence, there was something that was circulated recently from

[0:04:21] Voice 12: a long list of previous trustees

[0:04:25] Voice 12: with respect to our Section 3 public rise and report from last September.

[0:04:37] Voice 12: So it hasn't made this agenda, but I recommend that everybody read it,

[0:04:41] Voice 12: and we need to speak to that at some point.

[0:04:44] Voice 12: And I think my suggestion would be that on the next agenda

[0:04:49] Voice 12: that we have some time to reflect on both the process of that

[0:04:55] Voice 12: and what we've been doing with this committee overall.

[0:04:59] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo?

[0:05:01] Voice 8: Yes, in relation to that correspondence,

[0:05:05] Voice 8: there seems to be continuing misunderstanding

[0:05:10] Voice 8: of the community and related anxiety

[0:05:14] Voice 8: about the interpretation of section three of the act

[0:05:18] Voice 8: that trust council settled on.

[0:05:21] Voice 8: So I agree, I think we should make room in the next meeting

[0:05:24] Voice 8: on in the agenda for discussion on that and i actually think um it should be in camera because

[0:05:32] Voice 8: some of the things that we need to i believe that we need to discuss um relate to um confidential

[0:05:39] Voice 8: uh the confidential legal opinions and i think we need to discuss um how to best handle uh this

[0:05:46] Voice 8: confusion that's out there because the public is entitled to uh a clearer explanation of how we got

[0:05:53] Voice 8: out here and we're kind of we've been struggling with how to do that we've been presenting the

[0:05:58] Voice 8: result in various ways uh but we have this difficulty in how to explain the reasoning

[0:06:07] Voice 8: i think we should try to get our hands around that and to do that i think we need to do that

[0:06:11] Voice 8: in camera because we'll need to discuss the legal opinions and decide what to do with them

[0:06:14] Voice 8: so i agree with you trustee getty but my suggestion is we do it in camera thank you

[0:06:19] Voice 8: Trustee Stamford?

[0:06:23] Trustee Stamford: At this point, I don't see what the in-camera reason is.

[0:06:27] Trustee Stamford: That's sort of what is part of the problem.

[0:06:30] Trustee Stamford: But I would really like to just add this to the next meeting

[0:06:34] Trustee Stamford: and not go into the details today.

[0:06:37] Trustee Stamford: Okay.

[0:06:39] Trustee Stamford: That was

[0:06:39] Voice 12: what I was hoping for.

[0:06:42] Voice 12: So we're going to acknowledge it.

[0:06:46] Voice 12: It's not even on the agenda for information,

[0:06:48] Voice 12: but I bring it to your attention and let you know

[0:06:53] Voice 12: that I'm going to add it to the next agenda.

[0:06:57] Trustee Luckham: Peter.

[0:07:00] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, Chair Getty, thank you.

[0:07:03] Trustee Luckham: Just trying to, you know, without being whatever,

[0:07:12] Trustee Luckham: I'm just going to put it out here.

[0:07:13] Trustee Luckham: This correspondence is not on our agenda.

[0:07:15] Trustee Luckham: It has come to us and indeed will be

[0:07:19] Trustee Luckham: be on an executive committee agenda coming up. And certainly there may be direction to forward

[0:07:25] Trustee Luckham: that to governance committee to review that. Or however, as Trustee Bernardo's remarks are

[0:07:31] Trustee Luckham: certainly significant, this is a hurdle that we need to get over. But indeed, it's not on today's

[0:07:37] Trustee Luckham: agenda and just overall just be cognizant of our own governance process to do with the agenda. If

[0:07:46] Trustee Luckham: If we wanted to have added that to the agenda,

[0:07:48] Trustee Luckham: we could have at the outset.

[0:07:51] Voice 12: Okay.

[0:07:51] Voice 12: It has come to the trust.

[0:07:53] Voice 12: It has to do with that Section 3 Verizon report,

[0:07:57] Voice 12: and it'll be wonderful to have it go to executive committee first,

[0:08:03] Voice 12: but it's not on this agenda, but I am notifying people,

[0:08:08] Voice 12: please read it.

[0:08:09] Voice 12: We're going to add it to the next one and see what we can do

[0:08:12] Voice 12: in terms of working with executive on what to do.

[0:08:15] Voice 12: I think we need to have some sort of an analysis of how we might have done things differently, as well as looking at the actual content for future reference.

[0:08:27] Voice 12: Okay, if I can leave that.

[0:08:30] Voice 12: Administrative coordination, the minutes from February the 23rd.

[0:08:38] Voice 12: Everybody had a chance to read those.

[0:08:43] Voice 12: there were two items that um some is going to be brought up again with respect to this um

[0:08:55] Voice 12: continuation there was another one that um in terms of reporting out to the um the board that

[0:09:05] Voice 12: i think we need to uh which is at the end of this agenda which i think we need to add to

[0:09:09] Voice 12: and there was one thing that was tabled that um did not make this agenda and it'll come up again

[0:09:15] Voice 12: Trustee Stamford.

[0:09:17] Trustee Stamford: Yes, sorry, Chair.

[0:09:19] Trustee Stamford: I'm just trying to find the reference.

[0:09:21] Trustee Stamford: My computer just went down,

[0:09:24] Trustee Stamford: but it's more to do with how the minutes were presented.

[0:09:30] Trustee Stamford: There's, I think, two motions that were carried

[0:09:33] Trustee Stamford: based on Roman numerals,

[0:09:35] Trustee Stamford: and I would prefer in future

[0:09:38] Trustee Stamford: that motions can stand alone as far as clarity

[0:09:43] Trustee Stamford: and that the actual point rather than just the reference to roman numerals be

[0:09:50] Trustee Stamford: the topic of the motion that's just my preference thank

[0:09:56] Voice 6: you so

[0:09:59] Voice 12: too short a form fair enough it's not

[0:10:04] Voice 12: maybe best practice so point taken any other amendments

[0:10:13] Voice 3: comments changes all right can we

[0:10:19] Voice 3: get a motion to accept the uh the minutes trustee

[0:10:26] Voice 12: stamford you can also

[0:10:27] Trustee Luckham: do that by general consent

[0:10:28] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[0:10:29] Voice 12: even better all right um anybody opposed to um adopting these minutes formally then let's do

[0:10:44] Voice 12: by general consensus that's a tiny bit faster uh no opposition then those minutes will be adopted

[0:10:52] Voice 12: business work program items the ex officio briefing David thank you for your report

[0:11:07] Voice 1: yep no problem did you want to present anything they just answer questions

[0:11:12] Voice 12: does anybody want or need David to go through the highlights of his report I

[0:11:24] Voice 8: think that might

[0:11:24] Voice 8: be helpful to hear from Director Marder.

[0:11:28] Voice 1: Okay, thank you. Yes, so the briefing,

[0:11:32] Voice 1: I was just asked to put this on here to try and just provide a little bit more

[0:11:36] Voice 1: information about ex officio. So I've done that. Just indicate that the whole point of the term

[0:11:43] Voice 1: is to indicate that it's the position, the person is appointed by virtue of the office,

[0:11:50] Voice 1: provided in there the rationale for why the chair of trust council um does not have any voting

[0:11:57] Voice 1: rights and that is because um it was removed by trust council i don't understand the reason for

[0:12:04] Voice 1: that i have had a look back um back into the 80s into the minutes and i couldn't really see anything

[0:12:10] Voice 1: it appeared to be just presented that way and accepted by council and it's been done that way

[0:12:16] Voice 1: ever since. So it's really more of a standard practice at the Islands Trust. We haven't

[0:12:22] Voice 1: really questioned why that's the case. The reason the chair is not considered quorum

[0:12:29] Voice 1: is because the chair is appointed to multiple committees by virtue of the office. So that's

[0:12:38] Voice 1: really just saying the chair obviously can attend, but it's not expected to attend.

[0:12:42] Voice 1: So by excluding the chair as from quorum means that the chair is unable to attend, the chair of trust council is not going to cause any problems from a quorum point of view for the governance committee.

[0:12:57] Voice 1: And that's out of Robert's rules. So if you have a chair that's appointed ex officio to multiple committees, then by Robert's rules, that's not counted as part of the quorum.

[0:13:10] Voice 1: uh however from looking at robert's rules and online um it's only the um privileges that have

[0:13:20] Voice 1: been removed by a bylaw or policy that apply so everything else does apply so for the chair

[0:13:27] Voice 1: according to what i've read the um which is robert's rules and a few other sources

[0:13:32] Voice 1: the chair does not allen's trust the chair does not have the ability to um to vote but can

[0:13:40] Voice 1: certainly make motions uh can second motions and can debate the issues so everything else that

[0:13:46] Voice 1: members can do the chair can do but the chair would just not be able to actually vote for any

[0:13:52] Voice 1: of the uh of the motions on the floor and then the islands trust conservancy um is appointed to only

[0:14:00] Voice 1: one of the committees which is this one and it's done a little bit differently um kind of when i

[0:14:06] Voice 1: I was writing this I was thinking you know if you look at the financial planning committee

[0:14:10] Voice 1: and the way that's appointed you could argue that all those positions with the exception of three

[0:14:16] Voice 1: appointed at large by the chair of trust council are ex-official because they're all there by

[0:14:22] Voice 1: virtue of their position either a member of the executive or the chair of one of the committees

[0:14:28] Voice 1: or been appointed by chair of one of the committees so I'm not suggesting we do that I was just

[0:14:34] Voice 1: pointing that out as a little bit of an anomaly. So it's something we could clean up if you want

[0:14:41] Voice 1: to. So I've provided some options at the bottom on what council could do. You could just leave it.

[0:14:49] Voice 1: You could add a definition of ex-official into the policy to help people understand it better.

[0:14:55] Voice 1: You could make all ex-official as non-voting members just by policy. That's what we'd like

[0:15:02] Voice 1: to do at council or we could just reframe the islands trust conservancy appointment so it's more

[0:15:08] Voice 1: like the chairs of committees appointments or something like that so I'm not suggesting that

[0:15:15] Voice 1: we do anything but I was just providing this as information to try and help you understand it

[0:15:21] Voice 1: I didn't include it in here but trustee Boland has been in touch with me wanting to bring an

[0:15:28] Voice 1: an RFD to Trust Council on making some changes to the ex-official to address the issue of the

[0:15:35] Voice 1: Islands Trust Conservancy ex-official being a voting member and wants to ask Council to make

[0:15:43] Voice 1: some changes there. So I have provided this briefing to her just to help inform her discussion

[0:15:50] Voice 1: when she puts the RFD together.

[0:15:55] Voice 1: Okay, back to the chair.

[0:15:59] Voice 12: Thank you.

[0:16:00] Voice 12: Any discussion?

[0:16:08] Voice 12: Trustee Stamford.

[0:16:09] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you, chair.

[0:16:12] Trustee Stamford: One of the things when I read this is going back to the original thoughts

[0:16:21] Trustee Stamford: behind how the governance report came about in the previous term.

[0:16:26] Trustee Stamford: And it was when I was chair of the Islands Trust Conservancy, we were definitely surprised that the ITC was not considered part of the governance review.

[0:16:41] Trustee Stamford: It was certainly something to be discussed as what role the ITC has within the Islands Trust, and that's part of governance.

[0:16:50] Trustee Stamford: so um sort of from the bigger principle point of view um that to me is the more important question

[0:16:59] Trustee Stamford: is is there a role with ic is itc part of the islands trust in what way and what role could

[0:17:09] Trustee Stamford: it play in the future because there's varying considerations about um the potential for its

[0:17:16] Trustee Stamford: role or not role you know where it could fit and i think that's worth the discussion at least so

[0:17:22] Trustee Stamford: for me that fed into this ex officio discussion that is this part of governance the itc or not

[0:17:31] Trustee Stamford: and so that's where i've been coming from with this

[0:17:36] Voice 12: trustee bernardo yeah

[0:17:39] Voice 8: my comment is related

[0:17:42] Voice 8: related to that. It's in a similar vein. The issue has come up before. What we have before

[0:17:52] Voice 8: is a question here. It's not necessarily for this committee to decide the question, but

[0:17:57] Voice 8: it's a question about our composition and our constitutional structure, if we want to

[0:18:01] Voice 8: put it that way. The Governance Committee is concerned with the governance of the Islands

[0:18:05] Voice 8: trust. The trust, the governance of the trust conservancy is another matter. As a matter of

[0:18:14] Voice 8: principle, it's not clear to me that the ITC should actually be able to vote on governance

[0:18:19] Voice 8: committee matters. As Trustee Sanford pointed out, that's a legitimate question, but we've heard,

[0:18:27] Voice 8: we've been told that it was actually never the intention to give the ITC a vote. And it seems

[0:18:34] Voice 8: to me that's a question that needs to be clarified and it's not for us to clarify but i think it may

[0:18:39] Voice 8: be for us to raise that question with trust council so the trust council can simply resolve

[0:18:44] Voice 8: the question about what they think the scope of the itc involvement should be excuse me and uh

[0:18:51] Voice 8: i thought we had refreshed my memory but i thought at a previous meeting we we had in fact resolved

[0:18:57] Voice 8: to bring the question to trust council to to resolve if i if i got that wrong you

[0:19:03] Voice 12: put it into

[0:19:04] Voice 12: too important but not urgent but

[0:19:08] Voice 8: had we not resolved to just simply bring the matter forward

[0:19:11] Voice 8: no

[0:19:13] Voice 12: okay

[0:19:14] Voice 8: trustee

[0:19:17] Voice 12: patrick you

[0:19:20] Trustee Patrick: know my comments are more along the same line i think this does need

[0:19:25] Trustee Patrick: deeper thought on the intent of the involvement of the trust conservancy because it gets complicated

[0:19:32] Trustee Patrick: more so than just the ex officio appointment is what if one of the elected trustees is also

[0:19:41] Trustee Patrick: an elected member of the trust conservancy who are they speaking for or not and and so forth so

[0:19:48] Trustee Patrick: i think there does need to be clarity as to you know who is intended to speak for trust

[0:19:53] Trustee Patrick: conservancy are they you know what is what isn't are we intended to include the governance or not

[0:19:59] Trustee Patrick: of trust conservancy so i think there's a number of questions and the complexity you know may not

[0:20:04] Trustee Patrick: have been considered when this was set up and good time to consider it could

[0:20:10] Voice 12: i um interrupt there um

[0:20:12] Voice 12: trustee patrick my understanding is that the um representative from the um conservancy onto

[0:20:21] Voice 12: the governance committee has to be an elected trustee it can't be one of the other appointments

[0:20:26] Voice 12: no that's

[0:20:28] Trustee Patrick: my understanding but what if an elected trustee was also elected to this committee

[0:20:32] Trustee Patrick: right

[0:20:35] Voice 12: that's actually the situation that we've got with um tim's not here to defend himself but

[0:20:42] Voice 12: he's a member of the executive and he's also an elected member of this committee

[0:20:46] Voice 12: throws a little wrinkle into it at any rate chair luckham um

[0:20:54] Trustee Luckham: this is a great uh topic and

[0:20:58] Trustee Luckham: And I want to thank Laura Patrick there for identifying the one complexity in the different

[0:21:05] Trustee Luckham: hats that we wear.

[0:21:07] Trustee Luckham: And certainly that applies across all of our committees.

[0:21:11] Trustee Luckham: Do we represent any particular body or do we represent or do we just discuss issues

[0:21:19] Trustee Luckham: that are relevant to the broad federation?

[0:21:21] Trustee Luckham: And are we wearing different hats?

[0:21:24] Trustee Luckham: And so that's obviously a conversation that needs to be clarified.

[0:21:26] Trustee Luckham: And in the case of the Conservancy, are they wearing a Conservancy hat or are they wearing a Federation hat in the debate about governance?

[0:21:38] Trustee Luckham: So that's a question that's out there that indeed needs clarity or needs an answer.

[0:21:43] Trustee Luckham: sir. I'm inclined not to worry at this juncture and certainly respect the fact that there may

[0:21:49] Trustee Luckham: have been some intent associated with the motion that came forward or the decision to include the

[0:21:57] Trustee Luckham: Conservancy in the Governance Committee. I think we just simply need to answer that question for

[0:22:03] Trustee Luckham: ourselves today, now that we understand it better and have some idea of what the implications are.

[0:22:11] Trustee Luckham: And indeed, let's understand all the implications of this complexity, as Laura has put it so well, and then affirm whatever decision it is that we want to make associated with this.

[0:22:25] Trustee Luckham: The question about different hats that we wear is significant across the entire trust, whether you represent a local trust committee or a committee or otherwise a council, particularly even.

[0:22:37] Trustee Luckham: So that's my thoughts.

[0:22:39] Voice 3: Thank

[0:22:40] Trustee Luckham: you. Trustee Harris?

[0:22:41] Voice 7: This doesn't seem complicated to me in any way, shape or form. Chair Luckum is the

[0:22:48] Voice 7: Chair of the EC and it was written into there, the Chair will be ex officio. As far as Chair

[0:22:52] Voice 7: Peterson goes, he was elected to here. Yes, he may be a member of the Executive Committee,

[0:22:57] Voice 7: but it doesn't seem to be complicating to me in any way, shape or form that should Tim

[0:23:03] Voice 7: Peterson be voting on the Governance Committee or not. It's clear, yes, he ought to be. He was

[0:23:07] Voice 7: elected has nothing to do with him being on the executive committee as far as the islands trust

[0:23:11] Voice 7: conservancy goes there seems to be no way in my mind and most people that i talk to in their mind

[0:23:17] Voice 7: that the islands trust conservancy representative that wasn't elected to there and is sitting on

[0:23:23] Voice 7: the gc unelected should be voting on the governance committee like it doesn't seem like rocket science

[0:23:31] Voice 7: to me so at the very least it needs to be discussed or and brought up that the trust

[0:23:36] Voice 7: trust council and until then there should be no voting

[0:23:41] Voice 7: by that member on this committee.

[0:23:43] Voice 7: Thank you.

[0:23:44] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:23:47] Voice 8: I'm in the happy position of being able to disagree

[0:23:50] Voice 8: with both trustee Harris and trustee Luckham.

[0:23:56] Voice 8: First, I can't agree with trustee Luckham's suggestion

[0:23:58] Voice 8: basically that we leave sleeping dogs lie.

[0:24:01] Voice 8: We know actually where we stand today.

[0:24:04] Voice 8: I

[0:24:04] Trustee Luckham: don't think they said that actually.

[0:24:06] Trustee Luckham: Well,

[0:24:06] Voice 8: that's right.

[0:24:09] Voice 8: That's what I heard. We know where we stand today. And I'll agree with Trustee Harris,

[0:24:15] Voice 8: it's not that complicated. The terms of reference right now exclude the trust chair from voting.

[0:24:23] Voice 8: The terms of reference do not have that explicit exception for the representative from the ITC.

[0:24:31] Voice 8: So on its face, based on the terms of reference, as we stand today, the representative from the

[0:24:37] Voice 8: the itc is entitled to vote at the proceedings of the governance committee uh just leaving it at

[0:24:45] Voice 8: that though isn't sufficient we have that clarity but it isn't sufficient because we've been given

[0:24:50] Voice 8: information that indicates that that was never the intention uh when the governance committee

[0:24:57] Voice 8: was constituted whether that is the case or not it raises a question about how we ought to be

[0:25:05] Voice 8: running our business. It is not for us to decide that. We're a creature of trust council. It's for

[0:25:11] Voice 8: trust council to tell us how we ought to be running our business. All we've done is identified a

[0:25:16] Voice 8: question here that needs to be resolved. And so I don't agree with Trustee Harris that the IT

[0:25:22] Voice 8: representative ought not to vote going forward. As it stands right now, according to the rules

[0:25:28] Voice 8: that we have in front of us, the rep is entitled to vote. But we have this question, and I do agree

[0:25:35] Voice 8: it's trustee harris and and trustee patrick that let's just have a resolution bring this thing

[0:25:42] Voice 8: forward to trust council throw the question out to trust council and have trust council resolve it

[0:25:46] Voice 8: it should it it should be treated as a matter of housekeeping some principle will come up in it

[0:25:52] Voice 8: but it's for that body to decide this question not us and i don't think we should be hoarding

[0:25:57] Voice 8: the question keeping it away from trust council that doesn't make any sense to me thank you if i

[0:26:05] Voice 12: I can weigh in. When I was thinking about this in terms of why there would be the distinction

[0:26:10] Voice 12: about voting, it seemed to me that if a matter came up for discussion and there was a vote at

[0:26:16] Voice 12: a committee level, the governance committee, that if the trust executive members were able to vote

[0:26:25] Voice 12: here, they would also get another vote at the executive committee and a third vote at trust

[0:26:30] Voice 12: council and that um that might be somehow or other i'm not i haven't worked out the math in terms of

[0:26:40] Voice 12: the um the possibilities but that might be uh why there's a limitation in terms of um that extra

[0:26:48] Voice 12: vote at the executive committee in terms of something going forward or not um so that made

[0:26:55] Voice 12: made sense to me um there was there is something in the um terms of reference for this committee

[0:27:02] Voice 12: um in researching and going back into the background and looking at all of this that

[0:27:07] Voice 12: popped out at me in terms of um the um members of the executive um should not stand for election to

[0:27:17] Voice 12: this committee so i think we missed that um and i'm not prepared to challenge it but it is something

[0:27:23] Voice 12: that we need to possibly pay attention to in future.

[0:27:28] Voice 12: I'm quite happy with the makeup of this committee

[0:27:30] Voice 12: and I think we're functioning reasonably well,

[0:27:32] Voice 12: so I'm not going to upset the apple cart

[0:27:35] Voice 12: for something that is specific.

[0:27:38] Voice 12: This matter came up before this committee

[0:27:40] Voice 12: in terms of making a motion

[0:27:46] Voice 12: and having it seconded and voted on.

[0:27:49] Voice 12: And then the question was asked

[0:27:51] Voice 12: in terms of whether or not the chair could make a motion.

[0:27:55] Voice 12: And then we spent some time having someone else raise the same motion.

[0:28:02] Voice 12: We voted on it again, and there was no change in the vote.

[0:28:06] Voice 12: Same happened with a later meeting in terms of a vote

[0:28:13] Voice 12: that involved the representative of the Conservancy.

[0:28:16] Voice 12: and um again there um that vote was in the minority and it wouldn't have changed the

[0:28:25] Voice 12: outcome of the vote and um it's hard to predict how people would vote um on future matters but

[0:28:33] Voice 12: uh we've got eight members of this committee so there um ultimately is not going to be a tie vote

[0:28:39] Voice 12: vote or a vote to upset a tie and if there is a tie vote and we've got um you know an even number

[0:28:49] Voice 12: of voting members on this committee with the um conservancy representative that's a matter that

[0:28:55] Voice 12: definitely needs to go to council i understood of all of the work that we have to do and we spent

[0:29:03] Voice 12: spent half an hour on this um simple housekeeping matter um that this was something that um we needed

[0:29:12] Voice 12: to um put before trust council possibly with other uh amendments um to various um procedural

[0:29:22] Voice 12: documents that we've got and uh something that we could put together i'm not entirely sure that

[0:29:29] Voice 12: that this is going to fit into the timeframe that, well,

[0:29:33] Voice 12: we'd put it into our matrix in terms of important,

[0:29:39] Voice 12: but not urgent so that it was coming,

[0:29:41] Voice 12: but it wasn't something that we were going to push our forward.

[0:29:47] Voice 12: So I'm content to have this for information to figure out what,

[0:29:57] Voice 12: if any kind of resolution we would like.

[0:30:00] Voice 12: to put to the trust council um see if we can get that through executive and to get onto an agenda

[0:30:07] Voice 12: and i don't think this is in a form now that we could put forward as a motion and so it needs

[0:30:14] Voice 12: some work and that we um agree to do that work but i need us to prioritize what's urgent and

[0:30:22] Voice 12: important and we've got plenty on our agenda today to talk about that fills that mandate

[0:30:27] Voice 12: date so um i would like this um not i'm not sure what's going to happen with um trustee boland's

[0:30:38] Voice 12: request for a decision and if that were to come onto the agenda then we have to move this up

[0:30:43] Voice 12: obviously but um otherwise i think we're we need to get on with the other more important business

[0:30:49] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:30:51] Voice 8: I just don't understand the agonizing over this. It's a simple question

[0:30:59] Voice 8: that needs to be resolved. That's all. I don't understand, Chair, the additional work that

[0:31:05] Voice 8: you're talking about. There's nothing for us to do here other than to raise the question for

[0:31:11] Voice 8: Trust Council, because our composition and our constitution is not for us to decide. It's for

[0:31:17] Voice 8: for Trust Council.

[0:31:18] Voice 8: So on that basis, I would like to make a motion.

[0:31:24] Voice 8: My motion is that Governance Committee ask Trust Council

[0:31:29] Voice 8: to clarify the role of the Islands Trust Conservancy

[0:31:32] Voice 8: representative on the Governance Committee.

[0:31:35] Voice 8: I'll

[0:31:41] Voice 6: second the motion.

[0:31:47] Voice 12: Sorry, who was second?

[0:31:49] Voice 3: Harris.

[0:31:57] Voice 12: Sorry, Trustee Peterson, you had your hand up.

[0:32:01] Voice 9: Thank you, Chair, and I'll just speak to the motion.

[0:32:05] Voice 9: I am in favor because I do believe that this is for Trust Council to make the determination.

[0:32:13] Voice 9: I think there is, to my mind, there's a bit of a question on whether this committee wants

[0:32:20] Voice 9: to do any further work on framing what the question for Trust Council is in general.

[0:32:31] Voice 9: This is Trust Council's business.

[0:32:35] Voice 9: business.

[0:32:41] Voice 12: Trustee Stamford, you had your hand up, are you down now?

[0:32:46] Trustee Stamford: No, sorry, Chair, I'm having trouble with my connection.

[0:32:48] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[0:32:51] Trustee Luckham: Chair Luckham?

[0:32:53] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you, you know, I'm not speaking to the motion per se, however, I concur that

[0:33:03] Trustee Luckham: this could go to Council for clarification.

[0:33:06] Trustee Luckham: clarification. The mechanics of things at the Alice Trust is what concerns me because what's

[0:33:14] Trustee Luckham: this motion I think is maybe not complete in that I think that it might recommend that the report

[0:33:22] Trustee Luckham: be forwarded to council for discussion to clarify the role of the ITC representative.

[0:33:29] Trustee Luckham: That's not implicit in the motion and we always find ourselves getting in trouble

[0:33:34] Trustee Luckham: when the motions are not implicit

[0:33:37] Trustee Luckham: because somebody along the road has to make an assumption

[0:33:40] Trustee Luckham: about what the intent was.

[0:33:42] Trustee Luckham: And so if this is going to council,

[0:33:44] Trustee Luckham: it needs to be framed in some fashion.

[0:33:51] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardi, it's your motion.

[0:33:56] Voice 8: I don't, you know, Chair Leckham's point.

[0:34:04] Voice 8: I mean, I'm struggling to understand what that's all about.

[0:34:09] Voice 8: I mean, even before we had Director Marlowe's briefing, we'd already discussed this issue and the outline of the question, which is there's a question about whether or not the ITC representative should be able to vote or not.

[0:34:26] Voice 8: And the historical information from people over your last term is that was never the intention.

[0:34:32] Voice 8: That's the question.

[0:34:33] Voice 8: I don't know what report.

[0:34:34] Voice 8: I don't know. I mean, if the work that Director Marler prepared is useful to that question, it probably is for Trust Council. I don't see how the resolution as framed right now prevents that from happening.

[0:34:49] Voice 8: it's simply saying clarify the role and in the in the run-up to the meeting i mean the

[0:34:56] Voice 8: governance committee doesn't have to vote on whether or not the report uh that director

[0:35:03] Voice 8: marla prepared has to go i mean that can simply go into the agenda when um when the executive

[0:35:08] Voice 8: committee puts it together um so i don't i mean the question is straightforward this is simply to

[0:35:16] Voice 8: to the point of this motion is to initiate

[0:35:19] Voice 8: the asking of the question of trust council,

[0:35:22] Voice 8: let the debate take place there.

[0:35:24] Voice 8: I don't expect it will be very long

[0:35:26] Voice 8: and let trust council resolve it.

[0:35:30] Voice 8: And all this, I really don't understand all this fussing

[0:35:33] Voice 8: around the margins about how we have to somehow

[0:35:36] Voice 8: carefully wrap this in 16 different colored ribbons.

[0:35:39] Voice 8: I mean, it's a simple question, let's just ask it.

[0:35:42] Voice 12: Trustee Stamford.

[0:35:43] Voice 12: I

[0:35:44] Trustee Stamford: just want to go back to the consistent reference that the previous board did not intend for the ITC to be part of this.

[0:35:55] Trustee Stamford: The ITC was not included with the governance review.

[0:36:00] Trustee Stamford: That's what happened.

[0:36:02] Trustee Stamford: It wasn't a question of intent.

[0:36:05] Trustee Stamford: And I think the question needs to be opened up to, should it be part of the governance overall?

[0:36:12] Trustee Stamford: How are those, that is the discussion. So I'm okay with opening up the motion, the motion is quite wide, I'm okay with that, to have that particular discussion, because there wasn't really an opportunity to have it in the previous term, and that there may be a role.

[0:36:33] Trustee Stamford: And so that is one of the reasons I'm supporting having ITC represented and possibly continue to support having it as a voting member on the governance committee.

[0:36:47] Trustee Stamford: But that's the discussion I want to see at Trust Council.

[0:36:51] Voice 3: Trustee Peterson.

[0:36:56] Voice 9: Thank you. I concur with Trustee Stamford on this.

[0:36:59] Voice 9: I think it is up to Trust Council to make that determination.

[0:37:03] Voice 9: is there a role what is the role what's what's what's the function um thank you i'm going to

[0:37:14] Voice 12: move to amend this uh motion to add that the uh report the briefing by director marler dated may

[0:37:23] Voice 12: the 6th 2024 uh be added um to the um ask of trust council to the motion before trust council

[0:37:37] Voice 12: to consider this.

[0:37:49] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Harris has seconded that motion.

[0:37:53] Voice 7: No, I have not seconded the motion.

[0:37:56] Voice 7: My hand's still up.

[0:37:57] Voice 7: Is

[0:37:58] Voice 8: there a seconder?

[0:38:00] Voice 8: I'll second it.

[0:38:01] Voice 8: I mean, fine.

[0:38:01] Voice 8: Let's give trust council whatever might be useful.

[0:38:06] Voice 8: Trustee Harris.

[0:38:10] Voice 7: The thought that the Islands Trust Conservancy

[0:38:14] Voice 7: should be involved in governing is,

[0:38:17] Voice 7: it goes right against the mandate of the Islands Trust

[0:38:20] Voice 7: trust as defined now, in my opinion. It's so heavily weighted and unbalanced. So this

[0:38:27] Voice 7: is, as far as adding this, you know, I'm, I don't see, I don't see how it's necessary.

[0:38:37] Voice 12: Thank you. Let's vote on this amendment that was seconded by Bernardo.

[0:38:45] Voice 10: Thank you.

[0:38:49] Voice 12: All those in favor of the amendment?

[0:38:55] Voice 3: I can't get a full screen.

[0:39:00] Voice 12: Okay. And are those opposed?

[0:39:05] Voice 12: That's carried. Is there any more discussion on the main motion

[0:39:10] Voice 12: as amended? Sorry, Director Marler,

[0:39:15] Voice 12: you had your hand up recently.

[0:39:17] Voice 1: Yeah, no, sorry.

[0:39:23] Voice 12: Okay. Discussion on the main motion.

[0:39:29] Voice 12: All right. Let's have a vote. All those in favor?

[0:39:32] Voice 12: um patrick peterson bernardo stamford um gevro uh myself all those opposed i

[0:39:56] Voice 1: don't see any opposed

[0:39:57] Voice 1: i

[0:39:57] Voice 12: don't see any opposed either all right so then the motion is carried all right draft code of

[0:40:12] Voice 12: conduct briefing has everybody had a chance to look through that material yes

[0:40:26] Trustee Luckham: so

[0:40:27] Voice 12: the um

[0:40:28] Voice 12: Correct me if I'm wrong. This has gone to executive committee and the briefing was provided to them for the April 24th meeting of the executive committee. And is it going to trust council? What happened with the recommendations of the executive committee?

[0:40:50] Voice 12: well

[0:40:51] Voice 4: madam chair um executive committee has indicated that trust council should discuss

[0:40:56] Voice 4: the matter and i think their initial thinking was that it should be at a committee of the whole

[0:41:00] Voice 4: meeting to be scheduled um as soon as uh can reasonably be done um i don't think it's anticipated

[0:41:08] Voice 4: for trust council itself but trust council ec meets both this coming wednesday and early in

[0:41:17] Voice 4: june so their thinking may change um i don't want to get too far ahead of them but um that's what

[0:41:23] Voice 4: they left us with all

[0:41:25] Voice 12: right so um christy peterson thank

[0:41:32] Voice 9: you chair i think the um the relevant

[0:41:35] Voice 9: portion is is the last uh paragraph uh on page 14 of the that uh this has been added to governance

[0:41:45] Voice 9: committee agenda for information because appropriate code of conduct is central to

[0:41:51] Voice 9: good governance and the governance committee may want to review and provide input into development

[0:41:56] Voice 9: of the new code of conduct or provide advice to trust council on appropriate code of conduct

[0:42:01] Voice 9: language so to my mind that's that's why it's here and that's for this committee to consider

[0:42:07] Voice 9: thank

[0:42:09] Voice 12: you trustee patrick i

[0:42:13] Trustee Patrick: uh we sit here and talk about what's in what's out what should be

[0:42:16] Trustee Patrick: this committee's business developing a code of conduct is an example of something that should

[0:42:21] Trustee Patrick: be in this committee's business exactly this is the governance uh of of the islands trust

[0:42:28] Trustee Patrick: um i do have a couple of comments that are going forward is one is the clarity as to who

[0:42:35] Trustee Patrick: um who this applies to or where the complaints come from looking at other municipalities and

[0:42:40] Trustee Patrick: And it's generally regarding the direct counselors themselves, the staff, and the volunteers associated with the various advisory planning committees.

[0:42:51] Trustee Patrick: But this one seems to also allow the public to be comments.

[0:42:54] Trustee Patrick: And I thought, I guess you're shaking your head, no, it doesn't.

[0:42:56] Trustee Patrick: So I hope that's true.

[0:42:58] Trustee Patrick: The other piece is to, I know I read through this and I could have easily have missed it, but most municipalities also have sort of a blackout period of during elections that, you know, comments are sort of put to the side and not addressed during an election period.

[0:43:17] Trustee Patrick: period. So those are my immediate thoughts, as well as an informal, a very clear informal

[0:43:24] Trustee Patrick: first step process to try to settle issues, you know, between, not quietly, but an initial

[0:43:33] Trustee Patrick: informal process that should kick off first before the more formal process.

[0:43:41] Voice 12: Director Marler?

[0:43:43] Voice 1: Just, yeah,

[0:43:43] Voice 12: just to respond.

[0:43:44] Voice 12: Trustee Barnardo, but I'm going to get advice first.

[0:43:47] Voice 1: Yeah, so I just wanted to respond to Trustee Patrick. Yeah, the intent is it is only for trustees, staff and the volunteers such as APCs. So complaints from public would be through a separate policy that you have, which is administrative fairness. So if it's not in there, I'll make sure that's clear.

[0:44:05] Voice 1: I hadn't thought about the blackout period so those are the kinds of things that you might

[0:44:10] Voice 1: want to consider as well somebody also commented on having trustees sign off on the code of conduct

[0:44:16] Voice 1: in some way I've kind of addressed in the code of conduct or at least in a report on how to

[0:44:23] Voice 1: implement the code of conduct and how to keep it current and that's something you may want to think

[0:44:28] Voice 1: about because once you've drafted it it's easy for it to just sit as a policy and then kind of

[0:44:34] Voice 1: get forgotten. So keeping it front and center, I think, is also important. Thanks.

[0:44:41] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo?

[0:44:44] Voice 8: Yeah, two points. One is that although I've read it, it's always helpful to have a more

[0:44:55] Voice 8: plain language version of things explained. And I'd like Director Marler, for the benefit

[0:45:04] Voice 8: of the committee to review the high points and identify the material differences that the

[0:45:12] Voice 8: proposed new language would have compared to what we have now that's one thing the other thing is

[0:45:19] Voice 8: this is coming to us as i understand it as a proposal for new business and i think we should

[0:45:24] Voice 8: accept it as that and uh it is as trustee patrick says uh it is directly a governance issue

[0:45:35] Voice 8: So it's come up and I think it's probably something we should deal with immediately.

[0:45:40] Voice 8: And my suggestion is that we add it to the agenda for the actual discussion of the pros and cons and what needs to go into it or taken out or whatever.

[0:45:51] Voice 8: But our review of it take place at the next meeting.

[0:45:54] Voice 8: And in anticipation of that, everybody should do their homework in anticipation of the next meeting, read that code of conduct, and come prepared to the next meeting to discuss it, so that we then can provide our views in, say, a brief memo to the executive committee to say, look, this is how we see it.

[0:46:14] Voice 8: And then we'll have done our job on this.

[0:46:18] Voice 8: Thank you.

[0:46:19] Voice 8: May

[0:46:21] Voice 12: I suggest we table this for information, put it into our important but not urgent part of the matrix, and that we try to figure out and keep track of the timing of it coming to a committee of the whole through either notification from the executive in terms of timing or staff,

[0:46:44] Voice 12: and that we have ourselves prepared in whatever meeting we have scheduled this for our discussion

[0:46:51] Voice 12: in the meeting before the presentation to the whole of Trust Council.

[0:46:57] Voice 12: Does that make sense?

[0:46:59] Voice 12: So we don't necessarily spend time too far in advance.

[0:47:02] Voice 12: We keep it fresh.

[0:47:04] Voice 12: Sorry, two hands up.

[0:47:05] Voice 12: Trustee Stamford.

[0:47:08] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, I'm just looking at the timeline of this and they want to bring it.

[0:47:12] Trustee Stamford: It looks like it's supposed to go to the Cal.

[0:47:15] Trustee Stamford: in june um and we don't have another meeting till what july for this committee um it's delaying

[0:47:24] Trustee Stamford: this um i understand the process as to why but i think it is it's really important okay

[0:47:33] Voice 12: and it's good

[0:47:33] Voice 12: clarification on that um i

[0:47:37] Voice 4: can speak to that

[0:47:38] Voice 12: yeah yeah

[0:47:39] Voice 4: i think this is a great

[0:47:41] Voice 4: you know you've got members of executive committee here they received this report

[0:47:45] Voice 4: Mayor Mrakas, Some of the details in the report that's included here that went to EC has some of what trustee Bernardo was looking for some some details around the differences between the previous document and the other one, but that's a certainly could be mined a little bit more, I don't think he sees in that can speak for themselves as married to a specific sequence if governance committee wants to take this up a little bit I expect that two committees could work together, and we could.

[0:48:14] Voice 4: um if not postpone um a delay executive committee sponsorship to a trust-wide conversation

[0:48:23] Voice 4: until the governance committees had a good an opportunity to to have a good look at it i don't

[0:48:29] Voice 4: see anything wrong with that from any administrative perspective it's probably a sound way to go

[0:48:34] Voice 4: forward so but you could turn to chair luckham or trustee peterson or anyone else and and and

[0:48:39] Voice 4: see what they think of that i don't think it was a hard and fast um recommendation going forward but

[0:48:44] Voice 4: thank you

[0:48:45] Voice 4: i'll leave it to them

[0:48:46] Voice 12: trustee patrick yeah

[0:48:49] Trustee Patrick: i actually think this is a bit urgent because

[0:48:52] Trustee Patrick: um i i'm probably the one that needled the executive committee to move on this over a year

[0:48:58] Trustee Patrick: ago um based on my observations of sort of the slowness of of complaints even making it to the

[0:49:05] Trustee Patrick: individuals that were being complained about which i thought was uh you know really not good

[0:49:11] Trustee Patrick: that if you have a complaint against you

[0:49:14] Trustee Patrick: and it's brewing around for six, seven months or a year

[0:49:18] Trustee Patrick: before the person being complained about is even told,

[0:49:21] Trustee Patrick: I just think that's awful.

[0:49:23] Trustee Patrick: So I think this is urgent.

[0:49:26] Voice 3: Mr. Peterson?

[0:49:30] Voice 9: Thank you, Chair.

[0:49:31] Voice 9: Just concur with the notion that,

[0:49:36] Voice 9: from my perspective at any rate,

[0:49:37] Voice 9: I think that executive committee

[0:49:41] Voice 9: does think this is important.

[0:49:43] Voice 9: important um and uh and that uh in my recollection of our discussion that we did think that uh it is

[0:49:54] Voice 9: a government's issue um in terms of timeline our actual our next meeting is actually not till um

[0:50:01] Voice 9: uh September our next scheduled meeting of this committee um so if we want to uh weigh in on this

[0:50:10] Voice 9: before it goes to Committee of the Whole,

[0:50:14] Voice 9: then we need to figure out how we're going to do that

[0:50:18] Voice 9: and what the timeline is.

[0:50:21] Voice 9: I don't know if we want to wait until September.

[0:50:25] Voice 9: If this committee does want to weigh in

[0:50:27] Voice 9: and go into any depth on the Code of Conduct,

[0:50:31] Voice 9: I don't think we should wait until September to do so.

[0:50:35] Voice 12: We have an existing Code of Conduct,

[0:50:37] Voice 12: or Standards of Conduct, right?

[0:50:39] Voice 12: Right. So this is bringing us up to date with the UBCM recommendation.

[0:50:47] Voice 12: So and we've got another.

[0:50:50] Voice 12: Lori's just highlighted we've got another meeting in July.

[0:50:58] Voice 12: OK. Chair Luckham.

[0:51:02] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. You know, I think there is some urgency around this.

[0:51:07] Trustee Luckham: But I also agree with the CAO that we should advance this in a way that allows us to turn our minds to it.

[0:51:18] Trustee Luckham: And whether or not this body wants to have a special meeting to discuss this particular topic or not would be a choice that could obviously be on the table.

[0:51:28] Trustee Luckham: July the 12th is not unreasonable.

[0:51:30] Trustee Luckham: And then potentially this could come to a September council as opposed to a June council.

[0:51:35] Trustee Luckham: It's not as if we're looking for things to put on our agenda for June.

[0:51:40] Trustee Luckham: It's filling up pretty fast.

[0:51:41] Trustee Luckham: But the reason I think that it's urgent is that it may surprise you, but over the years, we've had a number of complaints that we try to manage through the existing code of conduct.

[0:51:54] Trustee Luckham: And it often seems inadequate in order to remedy a situation.

[0:52:03] Trustee Luckham: And then perhaps there's a lack of understanding on what a code of conduct is and how it should

[0:52:10] Trustee Luckham: be interpreted by individuals in their behaviors.

[0:52:14] Trustee Luckham: And so it would be helpful to get this better.

[0:52:19] Trustee Luckham: And it would be useful, I think, if the governance, and it is a governance issue, and if the governance committee wishes to ponder on this and think about this, then figure out when that might be would be terrific.

[0:52:34] Trustee Luckham: And then the EC would absolutely take that under advisement. But it would be very helpful for somebody other than staff and executive committee to say, we think this draft code of conduct is what you should be considering.

[0:52:49] Trustee Luckham: So we're simply looking for more input on this so that when we do end up with council, we've got something that is more well-rounded out, because certainly people are going to ask, what does the Covenants Committee think?

[0:53:05] Trustee Luckham: And so that's the intent of it being here today.

[0:53:08] Trustee Luckham: I

[0:53:09] Voice 12: would find it helpful if there were more examples or some general description, excuse me, where the existing is lacking and where the problems are in terms of what we're trying to help with in terms of this new code of conduct.

[0:53:27] Voice 12: So I've heard stories at UBCM in terms of behavior in closed meetings, but beyond that, I'm not sure what the problems are.

[0:53:37] Voice 12: um my one comment would be that there's um there's no description of what possible penalties

[0:53:45] Voice 12: could be it's just left up to um such other um the third party investigators you know coming up

[0:53:53] Voice 12: with some ideas that might be uh imposed but there's nothing specific so that might help

[0:54:00] Voice 12: trustee bernardo yeah

[0:54:04] Voice 8: um yeah i'm wondering um if we need to schedule more meetings here

[0:54:10] Voice 8: it seems that we spend a lot of time at each meeting talking about how we should do the work

[0:54:16] Voice 8: instead of actually doing it it may and you know we're dealing with a tight budget in terms of

[0:54:23] Voice 8: our resources so it seems to me that we probably want to actually do schedule more meetings and

[0:54:27] Voice 8: with respect to this particular issue what we've been called upon is simply to do a review

[0:54:33] Voice 8: essentially the work's been done and throw in our two bits worth um i don't see the impediment to

[0:54:41] Voice 8: us actually just buckling down reading this thing and coming back at perhaps a special meeting uh or

[0:54:48] Voice 8: whatever convenient time that we can coordinate with the executive committee but i don't think

[0:54:53] Voice 8: there should be an impediment to a special meeting if it'd be helpful to move something along that

[0:54:57] Voice 8: people think is urgent that we could just simply do the review you know do our homework and then

[0:55:01] Voice 8: come prepared to sort of talk about the pros and cons as we see them and as a result of that

[0:55:07] Voice 8: after that discussion, I think it would be open to staff

[0:55:11] Voice 8: to simply, and it's not clear to me that we necessarily have to come up with any

[0:55:15] Voice 8: firm resolutions. Staff can

[0:55:21] Voice 8: summarize the pros and cons in the debate

[0:55:24] Voice 8: that we had. And that is sufficient

[0:55:28] Voice 8: I think for review for this purpose. Something like code

[0:55:32] Voice 8: and conduct doesn't need to be necessarily blessed by us, but

[0:55:36] Voice 8: But we are an advisory committee, so we don't have to come with a thumbs up, thumbs down approach.

[0:55:41] Voice 8: We can simply review it and collect the different comments and share that with the executive committee.

[0:55:47] Voice 8: And that can provide some structure for the discussion when it goes to Trust Council.

[0:55:51] Voice 8: In any event, I think we could do that in relatively short order if we simply buckle down the focus to do it.

[0:55:56] Voice 8: So my suggestion is let's consider scheduling some additional meetings to get this done.

[0:56:02] Voice 8: And the other thing is, as I mentioned before,

[0:56:04] Voice 8: Director Marler is here.

[0:56:06] Voice 8: I was hoping he'd be able to speak to it today

[0:56:09] Voice 8: in terms of providing the high-level briefing.

[0:56:13] Voice 8: Thank you.

[0:56:16] Voice 12: Through the chair, I'm happy to do that.

[0:56:19] Voice 12: All right.

[0:56:19] Voice 12: It's on our agenda.

[0:56:21] Voice 12: If you want to buckle down and deal with it today,

[0:56:26] Voice 12: we've had a chance to read it and think about it.

[0:56:29] Voice 12: I wouldn't mind some clarity in terms of what the problems have been.

[0:56:35] Voice 12: In terms of what this is trying to resolve, but we have time. It's 10 o'clock. So we've got another two hours, I believe, for this meeting. So we do have update on the corporate planning and the request to the minister.

[0:56:56] Voice 12: So we do have enough time, possibly.

[0:57:01] Voice 12: Director Marler, how about you weigh in?

[0:57:03] Voice 12: Thank

[0:57:04] Voice 1: you. Yeah. So this, the current code of conduct, standards of conduct was written originally back in 1995. And the problems that I've seen with it is the way it's worded, it's not very clear in some instances exactly what the conduct would be.

[0:57:25] Voice 1: It leaves it at a fairly high level. And I think what's needed and what's recommended by the province and its guidelines is that you need to have a look at what's happening for your particular council at the moment.

[0:57:41] Voice 1: so this is a little bit reactive and ask yourselves how can you address this in a code of conduct that

[0:57:49] Voice 1: is you almost need to be more specific by providing examples in a code of conduct of what is

[0:57:55] Voice 1: appropriate or what is not appropriate so whether either negative or positive and we don't do that

[0:58:01] Voice 1: in ours and again we haven't really changed it the world has changed over the last 20 or 30 years

[0:58:09] Voice 1: and there are things that are really just not addressed very well a good example is social media

[0:58:16] Voice 1: so we don't have anything that deals specifically with how trustees should be using the social

[0:58:24] Voice 1: media what it means we also have online meetings now which didn't exist back then so the etiquette

[0:58:35] Voice 1: around online meetings is also a little bit different and I think that needs to be addressed

[0:58:40] Voice 1: and then the other one is the way sorry the other one is freedom of information and protection of

[0:58:50] Voice 1: privacy it hasn't the current status of conduct hasn't been updated to reflect the new legislation

[0:58:59] Voice 1: around that. So I think that needs to be added in here as well. And then the final one, and this is

[0:59:06] Voice 1: the bigger one, is the current standards of conduct puts the onus on the executive committee and CAO

[0:59:12] Voice 1: to resolve the conflict. And that really is not appropriate. These are often political

[0:59:22] Voice 1: political um conflicts uh sometimes it's politicians to politicians or sometimes it's

[0:59:30] Voice 1: politicians being disrespectful to staff or another person like a advisory committee member

[0:59:36] Voice 1: something like that or staff being you know so we got those concerns and then how to deal with them

[0:59:44] Voice 1: So this draft includes a completely different approach to how you would deal with these complaints, removing the onus on the executive and CEO from actual results.

[1:00:00] Voice 1: it to just being the conduit to make sure that the process is followed.

[1:00:05] Voice 1: So that would be the responsibility of the executive committee, just to make sure that

[1:00:11] Voice 1: it's moving forward.

[1:00:13] Voice 1: And then bringing the third party in, that's pretty standard these days for most councils

[1:00:19] Voice 1: if they need somebody to come in and provide recommendations to them on what they should

[1:00:24] Voice 1: or shouldn't be doing.

[1:00:25] Voice 1: And yeah, we can certainly include a list of potential resolutions, you know, from an apology to censor or something else.

[1:00:44] Voice 1: but it's very limited what you can do. The legislation doesn't have any penalties for

[1:00:53] Voice 1: trustees that are not following codes of conduct. It really comes down to the ballot

[1:00:59] Voice 1: box at the end of the day. But councils can make public statements. They can distance themselves

[1:01:07] Voice 1: themselves from the from the individual politician.

[1:01:12] Voice 1: If there's appointments to

[1:01:16] Voice 1: certain committees or positions in the government,

[1:01:23] Voice 1: those could be revoked if somebody is not following the codes of conduct.

[1:01:29] Voice 1: So those are the main things that I see.

[1:01:37] Voice 1: So, you know, to answer Trustee Bernardo, on page 16, there is a very high level overview of the sections of the policy and where they came from.

[1:01:48] Voice 1: So just to try and show you what we kept from the existing policy and what is new.

[1:01:55] Voice 1: and as you'll see from that the first sections a through to e are all new those are mostly from

[1:02:03] Voice 1: the provincial guide uh which recommends that you put those things in there so definitions for

[1:02:10] Voice 1: example are new uh a new introduction um that makes a statement about why this code of conduct

[1:02:19] Voice 1: exist. The scope, so that section there really should address who can make complaints. So if

[1:02:27] Voice 1: it doesn't, I'll certainly make sure it does. In other words, it's not for the public, but it is

[1:02:33] Voice 1: to do with the councillors and trustees, sorry, and staff can make the complaints as well.

[1:02:43] Voice 1: And then section E, these are the foundational principles of responsible conduct. Again,

[1:02:48] Voice 1: this is from the guide um and then following that sections f1 to f4 those take those four

[1:02:57] Voice 1: principles of responsible conduct and it establishes some um codes of i guess conduct

[1:03:06] Voice 1: of trustees that would relate to those principles so it just links them together

[1:03:14] Voice 1: other. The guide then suggests that there's going to be very specific issues in your local government

[1:03:21] Voice 1: that you're going to want to address. So you can put sections in and have very specific policies

[1:03:28] Voice 1: that deal with those. So that's really what F5 down to F10 are. F5 is mostly from the existing

[1:03:39] Voice 1: policy, not very much in there has been changed. F6, which is meetings, that's also mostly from

[1:03:46] Voice 1: the existing policy with some changes. And then F7, collection and handling of information, and

[1:03:52] Voice 1: F8, staff and advisory bodies, that is some of the existing policies, but also some new language,

[1:04:00] Voice 1: which has been borrowed from other local governments. So I've had a look at several,

[1:04:04] Voice 1: role. And Saanich seems to have a pretty decent code of conduct that was useful as a starting

[1:04:12] Voice 1: point anyway. F9 is new, that's social media. So that's something we haven't really dealt with

[1:04:18] Voice 1: very much. And I think a section on that would be worthwhile. And then F10 is dealing with the

[1:04:24] Voice 1: media. And then section G is enforcement. And this was completely rewritten. And it has been

[1:04:30] Voice 1: adapted mainly from the District of Saanich. However, you might have better ideas and if you

[1:04:36] Voice 1: do, I think this is a section that can make this work, make it something that works for the Islands

[1:04:44] Voice 1: Trust. So that's where it came from. I think the one thing I didn't put in here and you might want

[1:04:52] Voice 1: want to consider is uh implementation and ongoing so how do you want to um enact the code of conduct

[1:05:02] Voice 1: so what's that going to look like um some examples i've seen from other local governments

[1:05:08] Voice 1: is a poster is made up with the code of conduct that's um put in the meeting hall or um a small

[1:05:16] Voice 1: small binder of the code of conduct or a one-pager for trustees that's on every agenda so you know

[1:05:23] Voice 1: just deals with that particular meeting or how they're going to work together what the expectations

[1:05:29] Voice 1: are could be ongoing training once a year there's a required session for the trustees to take or

[1:05:38] Voice 1: or something like that and other examples include signing a document to say you've read

[1:05:46] Voice 1: the code of conduct and you are going to abide by it sort of like a second oath of office

[1:05:52] Voice 1: in some way but related to the code of conduct so there's a lot of examples out there the

[1:06:01] Voice 1: provincial government adopted new legislation that applies to all local governments but

[1:06:06] Voice 1: does not apply to islands trust that requires that they have a code of conduct so they've all been

[1:06:12] Voice 1: working on it so there's a lot of new codes of conduct out there a lot of local governments

[1:06:18] Voice 1: are just going to work together to hire a third party to come in and help them when there is an

[1:06:26] Voice 1: enforcement issue so they built that into the code of conduct again so that they their staff don't

[1:06:31] Voice 1: have to deal with it. It's done by third parties, so it takes the pressure off staff and allows for

[1:06:39] Voice 1: an independent review of what's been happening. So this is, I think, timely. And the main thing,

[1:06:47] Voice 1: though, to keep in mind is the Code of Conduct has to be bought in, has to belong to Trust Council.

[1:06:55] Voice 1: So this is a draft. It's a collection from the guide and from other local governments.

[1:07:03] Voice 1: So right now it doesn't really belong to council. It's just something I've put together.

[1:07:07] Voice 1: So I think what's really important is a process to make it belong to council.

[1:07:13] Voice 1: So that includes taking the time to have these discussions, whether it's governance committee or a trust council committee of the whole,

[1:07:21] Voice 1: whether it goes to the other committees so they can look at it it's up to you how you do that

[1:07:27] Voice 1: so I don't think there's an urgency to adopt it right away I think what would be more important

[1:07:33] Voice 1: is to have the discussion so that you can adopt something that everybody agrees

[1:07:38] Voice 1: is trust council's code of conduct it would be nice to have it before the next election

[1:07:43] Voice 1: so that we can definitely start off the new council with the new code of conduct

[1:07:50] Voice 1: So I'll leave it at that, unless there's any questions.

[1:07:54] Voice 1: Back to the chair.

[1:07:58] Voice 12: Any questions for Director Marler?

[1:08:02] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo, your hand's up.

[1:08:05] Voice 8: Yes, it's up, but I don't actually have a question for Director Marler.

[1:08:08] Voice 8: I just had a comment about something he touched on.

[1:08:11] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:08:12] Voice 12: What's that?

[1:08:13] Voice 8: Oh, okay.

[1:08:16] Voice 8: I'm glad Director Marler raised the question of enforcement

[1:08:19] Voice 8: enforcement, because it's pretty clear that the Trust Council doesn't really have much

[1:08:29] Voice 8: jurisdiction in terms of remedies for inappropriate conduct and inappropriate behaviour.

[1:08:39] Voice 8: This draft is similar to the pre-existing Code of Conduct in the sense that there's

[1:08:46] Voice 8: a lot of emphasis on working with people to sort of getting them to yes you know getting to sort

[1:08:52] Voice 8: of resolving things in a in a by way of agreement and hopefully in virtually all cases that should

[1:09:02] Voice 8: be the way to go and i and i would think that trustees who are responsible would recognize that

[1:09:08] Voice 8: they are in fact responsible for working with a code of conduct process but having said that i

[1:09:15] Voice 8: I mean, it seems to me that what I read in this policy, the public censure is the most, is the one remedy that has some potential teeth to it.

[1:09:28] Voice 8: It's really that that's it, if you're dealing with somebody who's truly recalcitrant.

[1:09:35] Voice 8: Now, it seems to me that raises a question.

[1:09:38] Voice 8: I don't have an answer to it, but it raises a question.

[1:09:40] Voice 8: And it's not something we can dig into today, but I believe it's a topic for discussion that we should have when we are able to conduct a review.

[1:09:47] Voice 8: uh more detailed review is uh perhaps we need to consider addressing the remedy issue

[1:09:56] Voice 8: uh in our outreach to the province in terms of the legislative changes that we want to see

[1:10:02] Voice 8: in terms of and i i don't have any great ideas about this but i just have that observation i

[1:10:08] Voice 8: made that our jurisdiction is very limited in terms of to use an ugly word disciplining

[1:10:14] Voice 8: trustees and i'm not in favor of the idea of having some kind of uh draconian system but it

[1:10:22] Voice 8: is a question about whether or not we need to ask the province to give the ellis trust additional

[1:10:28] Voice 8: jurisdiction to better handle situations like that and that question including the public

[1:10:36] Voice 8: centric question also intersects with trustee patrick's concern that we need to think about

[1:10:41] Voice 8: about how to better deal with public complaints as well.

[1:10:44] Voice 8: So I'm just posting that as a thought

[1:10:47] Voice 8: for us to consider when we do have that review

[1:10:51] Voice 8: about whether or not we need to consider

[1:10:52] Voice 8: going to the province for additional jurisdiction

[1:10:59] Voice 8: so that we can have appropriate remedies.

[1:11:01] Voice 8: Thank you.

[1:11:03] Voice 3: Trustee Stamford.

[1:11:07] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you.

[1:11:10] Trustee Stamford: I listened to CBC news every morning

[1:11:13] Trustee Stamford: And if there was a alternative way of dealing with these kind of issues, Kamloops, Quesnel, Lions Bay, Harrison Lake, they are all dealing with absolutely appalling board issues and their ability to enforce anything beyond a censure.

[1:11:43] Trustee Stamford: is um is beyond them and this is a huge problem i i certainly know that it's not just with the

[1:11:53] Trustee Stamford: islands trust i think a better method would be to look at ubcm for a province-wide approach to

[1:12:02] Trustee Stamford: how to deal with this but the bottom line is they're elected officials and that's a very powerful

[1:12:07] Trustee Stamford: um position um there isn't a lot of recourse um that's that's what they were elected to do

[1:12:15] Trustee Stamford: was represent so i don't see the province coming necessarily with anything that's palatable

[1:12:22] Trustee Stamford: um this is just how it works they would have found something by now it's it's absolutely

[1:12:29] Trustee Stamford: outrageous but what various boards are going through on this so anyway just a comment thank

[1:12:36] Voice 7: you trustee harris i guess one of my comments would be i wonder you know going to what trustee

[1:12:41] Voice 7: stanford has just mentioned that this is going on another jurisdiction i wonder why you know

[1:12:46] Voice 7: it's interesting you could start getting different types of people running for these positions

[1:12:51] Voice 7: that um perhaps come from a very um differing background than the traditional types of folks

[1:12:58] Voice 7: that would be running for these types of positions um you know kind of a hypothetical there but i

[1:13:03] Voice 7: i wonder why i kind of know in my mind why um because the state of things these days is uh

[1:13:09] Voice 7: is not too palatable for um a lot of people um but it would be nice to hear some more specifics

[1:13:16] Voice 7: because i know i have lots of complaints that i've just let slide um but yeah it's a very

[1:13:22] Voice 7: interesting for sure trustee

[1:13:27] Voice 3: peterson yeah

[1:13:30] Voice 9: thank you uh i i'd like to see us um consider when we

[1:13:36] Voice 9: might dig in a little deeper and and um whether we can do that at the july meeting or whether we

[1:13:44] Voice 9: need to consider a special meeting um and uh other than that i think one of the things that

[1:13:52] Voice 9: that in our existing standards of conduct really stands out is as being uh a huge gap is that

[1:14:00] Voice 9: lack of notification of the person being complained against that that just is so wrong um

[1:14:07] Voice 9: so i i think i i think fairness you know really dictates that if there's complaints about you as

[1:14:16] Voice 9: a as a trustee um then you should be that should be part of it so that's that's one of the big

[1:14:22] Voice 9: pushes for me to to uh to move this forward um so yeah my question is can we can we deal with

[1:14:31] Voice 9: this at the july meeting do we need a special meeting

[1:14:34] Voice 12: what what areas are you thinking of that

[1:14:38] Voice 12: need we need to dig into deeper let's assume that this is a major uh opportunity um and we've got it

[1:14:46] Voice 12: in front of us we've all had a chance to read it um your comments i think g3 um with respect to

[1:14:55] Voice 12: that's page 28 so um under enforcement process we need some um notification and time limitations

[1:15:07] Voice 12: added in there so that it's the person being complained about has notice and gets a copy of

[1:15:14] Voice 12: of the complaint and that there's a time limit in terms of when they're notified.

[1:15:21] Voice 12: So 15 days or 10 days or 30 days or something so that it comes to either the chair or the CAO.

[1:15:33] Voice 12: And then there's a responsibility to notify, it seems to me.

[1:15:36] Voice 12: That's what I've heard today in terms of adding to that.

[1:15:41] Voice 12: I would also on D1, the scope.

[1:15:44] Voice 12: I think it applies to the members of the trust, not just local trust committees, but all trust committees, so that I would just change local to all, and we've had this discussion in terms of the jurisdiction and whether or not we've got standing committees and all the rest, but that's what this is, and we're functioning as that, and I think that this should apply to all committees.

[1:16:09] Voice 12: um and then for me the g4 um the whether or not the apology should be public or private

[1:16:20] Voice 12: and that provided as an option and other recommendations that are deemed appropriate

[1:16:26] Voice 12: i think there should be a list of um what all the potential benefits are that somebody is in

[1:16:35] Voice 12: jeopardy of losing such as appointments to committees and um positions as chairs or um

[1:16:42] Voice 12: i don't know what if we can think put our heads together and think of what all the benefits are

[1:16:50] Voice 12: that somebody is putting in jeopardy in terms of their um behavior or continued behavior i think

[1:16:57] Voice 12: that might be helpful so that at least people are notified of what they're putting in jeopardy

[1:17:07] Voice 12: i'm

[1:17:09] Voice 1: just making notes of all these comments i appreciate it trustee patrick

[1:17:14] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I think when I look at some of the other municipal codes of conduct, it's the length of time from the complaint.

[1:17:22] Trustee Patrick: We still allow six months, and I think that should be tightened up, that people should be encouraged to move a little quicker than waiting six months before they make a complaint on someone's behavior.

[1:17:34] Trustee Patrick: and so I think very clear timelines from the beginning all the way through so that it's

[1:17:41] Trustee Patrick: you know very clear not you know hidden and embedded sort of in this in the in the document

[1:17:45] Trustee Patrick: and I agree with you chair Getty that you know like I said each of these points need to have

[1:17:50] Trustee Patrick: time I also agree I think that there should be a sort of a blackout period during you know during

[1:17:59] Trustee Patrick: the election, and I know there's language in the various other municipal ones, and I

[1:18:10] Trustee Patrick: think looking at, you know, the CRD just updated their code of conduct and, or agreed or voted

[1:18:16] Trustee Patrick: on it in March after a year process to develop it through their governance committee, I might

[1:18:21] Trustee Patrick: that. Their staff reporting did have tables of the various key elements compared to the other

[1:18:32] Trustee Patrick: examples of municipal codes of conduct. So I think to help trustees see that this isn't just

[1:18:39] Trustee Patrick: something that's made up and magical just for the Islands Trust, that it really does come from

[1:18:44] Trustee Patrick: other bodies uh you know throughout the province that are um you know but this is a standard

[1:18:51] Trustee Patrick: code of conduct and expectations ceo

[1:18:57] Voice 12: hudson pillar um

[1:18:59] Voice 4: madam chair i just think you we should

[1:19:01] Voice 4: you should also consider anonymity and the role of anonymity in making complaints and get us get

[1:19:08] Voice 4: as clear there as um as you can what

[1:19:15] Voice 12: are you thinking not to allow it or to allow it i just

[1:19:18] Voice 4: think it's a nuanced consideration um we run into this quite a bit certainly if we have staff person

[1:19:24] Voice 4: who has a complaint against an elected official um the power imbalance sometimes can be challenging

[1:19:31] Voice 4: associated with that so there's a reticence to speak but nevertheless something might have

[1:19:35] Voice 4: there might be some validity to it um and there might be other instances where it's

[1:19:41] Voice 4: It's inappropriate that the person making the complaint isn't, you know, fully identified.

[1:19:48] Voice 4: So I think there just has to be some consideration around anonymity and how it functions inside any sort of code consideration for anybody.

[1:20:04] Voice 4: All right.

[1:20:08] Voice 12: That would be difficult to draft.

[1:20:12] Voice 12: Is there a precedent for that?

[1:20:14] Voice 12: Do we know?

[1:20:15] Voice 12: uh through

[1:20:16] Voice 12: the chair i

[1:20:17] Voice 1: could i could have a look at what other local governments have been doing

[1:20:20] Voice 1: yeah i think i've made a note of it so yeah

[1:20:24] Voice 12: it would be interesting too whether um if something

[1:20:28] Voice 12: if somebody observes an interaction say um staff and a trustee and it's in a public forum and they

[1:20:38] Voice 12: watch it and it puts a pall on everything but the person that is being let's say it's being yelled

[1:20:44] Voice 12: that is not prepared to file the complaint can a third party complain and if so how does that work

[1:20:53] Voice 3: yeah

[1:20:53] Voice 8: yeah

[1:20:54] Voice 12: steve bernardo thank

[1:20:58] Voice 8: you uh we're surfacing a lot of issues here but i think

[1:21:01] Voice 8: it's pretty clear that um we're not going to be able to do the review here at this meeting there's

[1:21:08] Voice 8: just a lot to go through and to consider and to debate so i'm going to revive the question about

[1:21:15] Voice 8: whether or not we should have a special meeting to carry on exactly what we've been doing right

[1:21:20] Voice 8: now, which is to start drilling into the thing. My experience with special meetings,

[1:21:26] Voice 8: Trustee Stamford might disagree, but at Gambier has been, I think they've been quite productive

[1:21:31] Voice 8: when we actually have specific drafting problems or specific issues that need to be resolved

[1:21:41] Voice 8: all fairly promptly uh having a special meeting that simply focuses on that one thing without

[1:21:47] Voice 8: the usual clutter of all this other stuff uh has been quite productive in terms of just moving

[1:21:52] Voice 8: things forward i

[1:21:54] Trustee Stamford: will agree with you on that

[1:21:55] Voice 8: thank you i'm gonna shut up

[1:22:00] Voice 12: now that there's been

[1:22:04] Voice 12: an agreement um

[1:22:06] Voice 1: if i may madam chair yes yeah i just uh we were just talking about enforcement

[1:22:13] Voice 1: and in bc as you said uh there isn't much recourse and there's probably no appetite for the province

[1:22:19] Voice 1: to um get rid of elected officials however alberta has a different approach so i just put in the chat

[1:22:25] Voice 1: where the alberta government actually fired uh chester mayor council so it's like you'd be

[1:22:31] Voice 1: be interested to see that well

[1:22:33] Voice 12: delta's just done that with their mayor out of um taking him off all

[1:22:37] Voice 12: of his duties for metro too so um all right um are there budget considerations for the third

[1:22:47] Voice 12: party investigating and reporting is anybody asking to

[1:22:54] Voice 1: me yes sorry um it'll be staff time

[1:22:58] Voice 1: mostly and once we get closer there could be some things depending what you put in here

[1:23:05] Voice 1: there could be some legal reviews so that's usually a couple thousand for legal but other

[1:23:10] Voice 1: than staff time i don't see any additional costs longer

[1:23:14] Voice 12: term though if we're bringing in this um

[1:23:16] Voice 12: third party adjudicator um investigation and reports is that yeah there would be kind of an

[1:23:24] Voice 12: idea of let's say we have one or two complaints that end up with a third party what would that

[1:23:28] Voice 12: be in terms of a budget yeah

[1:23:31] Voice 1: we'd have to look into that but i would probably budget a thousand

[1:23:34] Voice 1: dollars a day for an investigator and so maybe you know five to ten thousand dollars a year if

[1:23:40] Voice 1: you're expecting two a year i'm not sure russ agrees on that but that'd be my guess all right

[1:23:49] Voice 12: um so this was provided to us for information so i think we um accepted a document for information

[1:23:59] Voice 12: We continue to think about it, and let's sort out what executive committee is going to be doing in terms of their timeline and whether or not we need to have a special meeting before our July regularly scheduled meeting to dig into this deeper.

[1:24:17] Voice 12: Can we make it flexible like that so that we're waiting to see what the timeline is from executive?

[1:24:25] Voice 4: Madam Chair?

[1:24:26] Voice 12: Yeah.

[1:24:28] Voice 4: yeah so i think i think you should get maybe a little tighter in terms of anything you want

[1:24:34] Voice 4: david to do in terms of this discussion looking at those five or six elements or not um just that

[1:24:41] Voice 4: clarity would probably be helpful um certainly you can tell us to arrange a special meeting

[1:24:47] Voice 4: i think ec um i don't know if they're going to be coming up with anything profound in the absence

[1:24:53] Voice 4: of some communication from yourselves other than they would hold off from probably having a

[1:24:57] Voice 4: committee of the whole meeting but of course i can't speak for them um i would go to the meeting

[1:25:02] Voice 4: on wednesday and and indicate your you'd like some time is it okay to say you'd like some time

[1:25:08] Voice 4: to contemplate the matter well

[1:25:11] Voice 12: what i'm hearing is that people think that it is important and that

[1:25:16] Voice 12: it in many respects is urgent but it also needs to have some depth of discussion amongst the

[1:25:23] Voice 12: the entire group so um i think our recommendation would be to push forward um and if uh director

[1:25:33] Voice 12: marler can um he's made notes with respect to the comments that we've made at this meeting in terms

[1:25:40] Voice 12: of incorporating that into the next draft and we would um encourage and await the decision of

[1:25:50] Voice 12: executive committee in terms of when this is in fact going to go toward to the trust council

[1:25:55] Voice 12: and then we'll schedule more meetings as as appropriate depending on what that timeline is

[1:26:01] Voice 12: do

[1:26:03] Voice 4: you have that david is that yeah

[1:26:05] Voice 1: i'd help you work yeah it does i can make a um

[1:26:10] Voice 1: annotated version it just shows the governance committee recommended uh edits uh for continued

[1:26:16] Voice 1: any discussions so yeah no problem sure

[1:26:19] Trustee Luckham: not come yeah in order to be a little expedient here and i

[1:26:27] Trustee Luckham: can't speak uh for the body of executive committee but i can speak for myself um um it it strikes me

[1:26:40] Trustee Luckham: that what you're indicating the conversation is clear that you would like to provide some

[1:26:46] Trustee Luckham: some additional input on this,

[1:26:48] Trustee Luckham: just a sample of the conversation we've already had,

[1:26:51] Trustee Luckham: schedule a special meeting and have that conversation.

[1:26:55] Trustee Luckham: I think that as was indicated,

[1:26:57] Trustee Luckham: certainly it's important and it's urgent

[1:27:00] Trustee Luckham: and I'm really glad that there's an interest in this,

[1:27:04] Trustee Luckham: but I think that we could take under advice

[1:27:08] Trustee Luckham: that you are planning to have a special meeting

[1:27:12] Trustee Luckham: to discuss this

[1:27:13] Trustee Luckham: And we'll be submitting a more in-depth review to executive committee for consideration.

[1:27:20] Trustee Luckham: And then I think we could just take that and then determine that, no, let's not advance

[1:27:26] Trustee Luckham: this in June.

[1:27:27] Trustee Luckham: Let's advance this when you've concluded your work and then advance it accordingly to when

[1:27:34] Trustee Luckham: we've got an informed decision.

[1:27:36] Trustee Luckham: So rather than it kind of going back and forth about you waiting for us to make a decision,

[1:27:41] Trustee Luckham: I think you could take the lead here and say,

[1:27:44] Trustee Luckham: we're going to have a special meeting.

[1:27:46] Trustee Luckham: We're going to provide you advice as soon as we can

[1:27:48] Trustee Luckham: and stand by.

[1:27:51] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Peterson.

[1:27:54] Voice 9: Yeah, I would concur with Trustee Letcombe on that.

[1:27:59] Voice 9: I think it'd be helpful for the EC to know

[1:28:02] Voice 9: we do have here, but I think if at least this committee

[1:28:09] Voice 9: committee schedules a special meeting or mix you know to consider this and that's communicated to

[1:28:17] Voice 9: EC then EC is clear on that.

[1:28:22] Voice 3: Trustee Harris?

[1:28:24] Voice 7: I guess you know personally I'm still having a

[1:28:29] Voice 7: difficult time understanding as how this is all of a sudden something that's urgent and important

[1:28:34] Voice 7: I don't recall anything about this in the governance review I could be wrong I'd love

[1:28:41] Voice 7: to be corrected on that um i heard some people say well this is a governance issue well that's

[1:28:45] Voice 7: kind of a nice way to you know again i don't understand um although i do understand i get

[1:28:53] Voice 7: you know maybe some people have their feelings hurt um but i don't i don't understand how this

[1:28:59] Voice 7: is all of a sudden an important issue with um dealing with the dysfunction of the island's

[1:29:04] Voice 7: trust or its need of restructuring um i'll just leave it at that thank you all

[1:29:15] Voice 12: right um

[1:29:16] Voice 12: I

[1:29:17] Trustee Luckham: feel it's necessary to make a remark in response to Trustee Harris.

[1:29:26] Trustee Luckham: There are situations where public and staff feel unsafe and disrespected in our meeting spaces.

[1:29:41] Trustee Luckham: spaces. And sometimes it seems like because there's no guidance that anything goes. And I

[1:29:51] Trustee Luckham: have to say the reason the province has advanced, that this is important province-wide, is because

[1:30:00] Trustee Luckham: It does not create an environment for overall good government

[1:30:06] Trustee Luckham: where open discussion and people's opinions can be fully respected.

[1:30:12] Trustee Luckham: That's why, in my opinion.

[1:30:17] Voice 7: So in a rebuttal to that, I wonder if the public will then be able

[1:30:21] Voice 7: to make complaints about the governing body or elected officials

[1:30:27] Voice 7: based on decisions that they're making that they don't like.

[1:30:30] Voice 7: because clearly there's plenty of that going on really so again that goes but

[1:30:36] Voice 7: that goes back to what I heard um staff martyr talk about the ballot box you

[1:30:42] Voice 7: know there's

[1:30:43] Voice 12: a different if I can interrupt sorry there's a different

[1:30:46] Voice 12: process in terms of public complaints about behavior this is internal so this

[1:30:53] Voice 12: is between trustees and staff and trustees and trustees yeah okay

[1:30:58] Voice 12: um well

[1:31:04] Voice 7: i guess i'll just

[1:31:04] Voice 7: reiterate i still don't see the um how this is all of a sudden urgent and important we've got

[1:31:09] Voice 7: some huge fish to fry and um i think a lot of the um you know frustration that um you're hearing

[1:31:15] Voice 7: from some trustees um stems from the um the slow um pace of which we're seeing things um transpire

[1:31:25] Voice 7: Thank you.

[1:31:26] Voice 12: And as we get into difficult and prolonged discussions, it's important to have guidelines in terms of how we're supposed to behave and so that it can be more fully debated.

[1:31:38] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson.

[1:31:42] Voice 9: Thank you, Chair. I think the issue, from my perspective, is not whether the issue is important to this committee.

[1:31:56] Voice 9: it's whether well it is whether the issue is important to this committee does the committee

[1:32:01] Voice 9: want to weigh in on this or or not and a lot of what i've heard today is that the committee does

[1:32:07] Voice 9: want to weigh in on it and and i think that's that's the the important issue is whether whether

[1:32:15] Voice 9: governance committee wants to weigh in if we don't want to weigh in that's fine and the code of

[1:32:21] Voice 9: of conduct work will will happen uh without um without the input from this committee so that's

[1:32:28] Voice 9: all sure

[1:32:30] Trustee Luckham: welcome yeah just to be clear there is a mechanism for the public to complain about the

[1:32:38] Trustee Luckham: decisions of the elected body through administrative fairness complaints and indeed the outcome of that

[1:32:45] Trustee Luckham: That can be that a bylaw is squashed and the committee has to reconsider it.

[1:32:52] Trustee Luckham: And that goes through an extensive process.

[1:32:58] Trustee Luckham: And admittedly, the onus often is on the part of the complainant to further that.

[1:33:03] Trustee Luckham: But there is a mechanism that exists for that.

[1:33:06] Trustee Luckham: And we need to also respect that.

[1:33:08] Trustee Luckham: So, yes, the code of conduct should embrace our decision-making processes to ensure that we're being appropriately respectful and applying diligence according to a code of conduct.

[1:33:29] Trustee Luckham: So these are great questions, and it's good to have a conversation to resolve this.

[1:33:34] Trustee Luckham: All

[1:33:37] Voice 12: right. So my suggestion was that we table this and accept it for information and that we have it on our agenda for July the 12th for a more fulsome discussion, unless and until the, well, no, sorry. First of all, I had a question to CAO Hudson-Pillar. How difficult is it to set up a special meeting?

[1:34:04] Voice 4: Well, Madam Chair, if it's after June 30th, I think it's incredibly easy.

[1:34:09] Voice 4: but um what's

[1:34:13] Voice 12: june 30th well

[1:34:14] Voice 4: it's my last day here at the ounce trust just a little bit of

[1:34:17] Voice 4: cao humor for you madam chair sorry

[1:34:20] Voice 6: um yeah we can return

[1:34:23] Voice 4: to that at at any point um it's a

[1:34:27] Voice 6: relatively not

[1:34:28] Voice 4: going you see yeah no this is i might come back for this next meeting um

[1:34:34] Voice 6: yeah i

[1:34:35] Voice 4: don't think there's a it's just that all of your calendars like later on we're gonna talk

[1:34:39] Voice 4: about the corporate planning group you know it's getting you all to finding a space in your

[1:34:44] Voice 4: calendar is the only thing that's really the challenge um we need to give uh uh whoever's

[1:34:50] Voice 4: the writer of any resource materials like in this case david a little bit of runway so a couple of

[1:34:54] Voice 4: weeks out or a week and a half out so he doesn't get um run over by the thing necessarily but other

[1:35:00] Voice 4: than that um it's it's scheduling more than anything else trustee

[1:35:05] Voice 12: bernardo uh

[1:35:08] Voice 8: yeah um uh

[1:35:13] Voice 8: to address uh trustee harris's concern i mean i i do think the code of conduct is relevant to the

[1:35:19] Voice 8: uh effectiveness of how the trust does its work um all the issues raised by the governance review

[1:35:27] Voice 8: in a sense um if you think long and hard about them they're they're interrelated and

[1:35:31] Voice 8: And I've got to be careful here about making grand declarations, but from my vantage point, they all look like facets that are symptomatic of an overall outdated way of doing business.

[1:35:44] Voice 8: We have methodologies.

[1:35:46] Voice 8: I mean, I'm just talking about this straight technical stuff, but our methodologies date back to the 90s.

[1:35:53] Voice 8: We have just so many other challenges, and we actually, I think, have more work in front of us than previous generations of trustees.

[1:36:00] Voice 8: And the code of conduct is relevant in the sense that we've got to be able to sort of deal with each other in a civilized way so that when we disagree, we don't fall into acrimony.

[1:36:14] Voice 8: And a code of conduct isn't the complete answer to that, but it's part of the puzzle.

[1:36:19] Voice 8: So I think the code of conduct is, I'm not going to overstate it, it's part of the solution to the bigger problems.

[1:36:27] Voice 8: Maybe not a huge part of it, but it's a facet of that.

[1:36:30] Voice 8: So that's the one thing. The other thing is, I think if we can find the time, we ought to have a special meeting because we can just deal with this. So I'm going to move that staff be requested to schedule a special meeting at the earliest opportunity for the purposes of reviewing the draft code of conduct.

[1:36:54] Voice 3: Trustee

[1:36:55] Voice 12: Peterson seconds that.

[1:36:57] Voice 12: All right.

[1:36:58] Voice 12: So that would be some sort of a doodle poll to see whether or not we can get it into our calendar.

[1:37:04] Voice 12: So we try and do that before the July 12th or before June 30th?

[1:37:09] Voice 8: For the earliest opportunity.

[1:37:11] Voice 12: Yeah.

[1:37:12] Voice 12: Okay.

[1:37:13] Voice 12: All right.

[1:37:14] Voice 12: Got me.

[1:37:15] Voice 12: We've got a seconder.

[1:37:16] Voice 12: Any discussion on the motion?

[1:37:20] Voice 12: Not seeing any.

[1:37:21] Voice 12: Let's have a vote.

[1:37:22] Voice 12: All those in favor?

[1:37:27] Voice 12: Thank you.

[1:37:28] Voice 12: Any opposed?

[1:37:29] Voice 12: Opposed? Hands down. Any opposed? That's carried.

[1:37:38] Voice 12: All right. Thank you all. I'm going to suggest that we take a 10-minute break.

[1:37:44] Voice 12: I've got 10.38 on my watch, so how much time would people like? 10 minutes?

[1:37:53] Voice 12: Okay. 10.48.

[1:37:57] Voice 3: Thank you.

[1:37:59] Voice 3: Thanks.

[1:37:59] Voice 3: Thanks. Okay,

[1:48:59] Voice 12: I think we're all back. I'm having trouble with my the view screen, but that's my

[1:49:08] Voice 12: problem. Next on the agenda is an update on the corporate planning process. And CAO has provided

[1:49:18] Voice 12: us with a briefing. Do you want to go over that briefly? Please? Sure.

[1:49:23] Voice 4: Thanks very much, Madam

[1:49:24] Voice 4: Madam Chair. So since you last met, I'd say there's two or three of the more important

[1:49:34] Voice 4: developments. The first of which was at the last Trust Council. If you look in your agenda at page

[1:49:46] Voice 4: stage 32 or your

[1:49:52] Voice 3: briefing starts at 31 yep i

[1:49:54] Voice 4: know so go to 32 and you'll see

[1:49:58] Voice 4: um just where it goes to phase two step four determine and prioritize goals and objectives

[1:50:04] Voice 4: so normally what occurred at the last trust council meeting was the the first discussion

[1:50:08] Voice 4: of this trust council around three to five um them contemplating three to five um subject areas

[1:50:15] Voice 4: or goal areas, and there was some discussion that followed around what would be some of the

[1:50:20] Voice 4: strategic directions we'd like to follow associated with those. So that moment was held, and then we

[1:50:26] Voice 4: brought that back following to the, I call it the corporate working group or the subgroup

[1:50:33] Voice 4: that was struck out of this body, and they've made the point that it's time for the seas to part,

[1:50:40] Voice 4: and really that the ongoing corporate planning process would remain with them. That's what

[1:50:44] Voice 4: there they think is the best way forward and that the the real-time strategic planning process go

[1:50:50] Voice 4: back to executive committee and they tied to that recommendation um you know there's a couple of

[1:50:56] Voice 4: different options going forward with the work that trust council did in march but they wanted to

[1:51:00] Voice 4: extend that and to to engage in a a deeper strategic planning session they recommended

[1:51:06] Voice 4: that to executive committee so i'm in the process of getting um a consultancy to assist in a longer

[1:51:13] Voice 4: more refined discussion around those three to five you know purpose or focus

[1:51:19] Voice 4: goal areas and that's happening hopefully in June meanwhile we're then

[1:51:25] Voice 4: we've gone through this document there's certainly some challenges with getting

[1:51:32] Voice 4: everyone together in the same place just because a number of trustees and staff

[1:51:37] Voice 4: have very full calendars but we're moving into really the key question is

[1:51:42] Voice 4: part two strategy um implementation so following june um the executive committee is going to see

[1:51:50] Voice 4: some specific actions and that that that there will be costing associated with those and cost

[1:51:55] Voice 4: benefit and those will you know hopefully flow into the real world decision making process of

[1:52:01] Voice 4: trust council on the corporate planning side um you know this is my my priority piece of work over

[1:52:08] Voice 4: for the next month or a little bit more it's taking the the current draft we have refining it

[1:52:14] Voice 4: and moving into what I consider to be some of the key the key questions moving forward

[1:52:23] Voice 4: so that is is moving into we've started phase three which is the development of

[1:52:30] Voice 4: developing departmental plans and that is having a suite of products that

[1:52:36] Voice 4: that trustees, trust council, and committees can work with that are consistent.

[1:52:41] Voice 4: One, we have an overall departmental plan, so this would change from previous years,

[1:52:47] Voice 4: where we'd have aggregated work that would be coming out of land use planning

[1:52:50] Voice 4: that would include both strategic planning projects as well as ongoing planning administration work

[1:52:57] Voice 4: or policy-driven work, as well as we would have project plans,

[1:53:01] Voice 4: As opposed to using the business case or the project charter as the key document for managing work going forward, we'd have an initial project plan that's supported by a project charter.

[1:53:13] Voice 4: And ultimately, if there's decisions, financial decisions made in any given year or in totality, you'd have a business case associated with those.

[1:53:25] Voice 4: So that's phase three.

[1:53:26] Voice 4: The bigger or the biggest work coming up, I think, is going to be phase four, and that's synchronizing the corporate planning process with the annual budget and the long-term financial plan.

[1:53:39] Voice 4: I am personally of the view that, and I'll speak to two things quickly, I'm personally of the view that the way this is done now is not conducive to a well-considered,

[1:53:53] Voice 4: The process could be improved to end up with a well-considered decision with those needing to make decisions at the right time and with the right information, passing information on throughout the financial planning and the budget process.

[1:54:08] Voice 4: So that discussion is imminent with the Corporate Planning Group.

[1:54:12] Voice 4: And the second is, so really what I just spoke to is really the business cycle.

[1:54:18] Voice 4: The business cycle, who's weighing in when?

[1:54:20] Voice 4: Then is it committees with the role of FPC more specifically, the role of executive committee and trust counsel itself in that process.

[1:54:28] Voice 4: And if the current process stands the test, then that's fine.

[1:54:32] Voice 4: But I think it should have some refinement.

[1:54:34] Voice 4: And the second is the level of the what's on the table at the working group is a high level of specificity around information with any given project, including a raft of resources and a fairly high frequency return to trust counsel with reporting and monitoring and progress.

[1:54:59] Voice 4: and um fully acknowledging that that that back end piece is something that the trust has to get

[1:55:05] Voice 4: better at how do we get reasonable progress monitoring and resource allocation without

[1:55:13] Voice 4: making it a job for three more administrative people at the islands trust where the next budget

[1:55:17] Voice 4: cycle the ceo is going hey we need three more people to administer the corporate plan i'm being

[1:55:22] Voice 4: a little facetious but um it's how to get the sweet spot if you've got enough information

[1:55:27] Voice 4: we can get it to you um and acknowledging that land use planning work isn't um we're not producing

[1:55:35] Voice 4: units um of things so we so i think that conversation i don't think it's it's been

[1:55:40] Voice 4: fully had yet at the corporate planning group um that needs to happen and then the last question

[1:55:45] Voice 4: is what final product what product gets returned to you gets returned to ec gets returned to trust

[1:55:53] Voice 4: council in what form um trust council passed the corporate the basically the framework um i'm of

[1:56:00] Voice 4: the view that that framework with the detailed appendices um and then the corresponding policy

[1:56:05] Voice 4: changes that will come um as a companion to it would essentially be the um would encapsulate

[1:56:12] Voice 4: most of that work but in fact i think we have a meeting with the corporate planning group tomorrow

[1:56:16] Voice 4: so um we'll collectively have that conversation and probably report back at your special meeting

[1:56:24] Voice 4: Sorry if that was a bit much, Madam Chair, but that's the current overview.

[1:56:28] Voice 4: And, of course, you've got these documents here on page 31 and on.

[1:56:34] Voice 12: All right.

[1:56:34] Voice 12: What can we do to help?

[1:56:38] Voice 4: You're exhibiting great patience, noting the difference.

[1:56:43] Voice 4: So now we have two projects underway, the real-world strategic planning process.

[1:56:47] Voice 4: Please encourage your colleagues to participate and engage in this.

[1:56:52] Voice 4: It's not perfect.

[1:56:53] Voice 4: um but it's close um i i think um taking that time is going to be of real value to trustees

[1:57:01] Voice 4: and just guiding the corporate planning process i mean obviously this is a piece for this term

[1:57:07] Voice 4: um as it bridges past me into whoever else is going to pick up this um this group um keep your

[1:57:13] Voice 4: your subgroup working and keep that communication going just be aware that we've got a lot of

[1:57:19] Voice 4: different committees working on the same thing and um just moving forward to keep an eye on that

[1:57:27] Voice 4: so thank you

[1:57:29] Trustee Patrick: trustee patrick oh well thank you russ um well it's you know the the being on the

[1:57:39] Trustee Patrick: committee of the corporate planning it's there's lots of little pieces and parts they're all being

[1:57:44] Trustee Patrick: built in real time uh which i think is a great thing to see i think it's being well embraced by

[1:57:49] Trustee Patrick: by staff and trustees as we're building this new way of planning.

[1:57:56] Trustee Patrick: And if you want to see, I think, for Salt Spring under our OCP project,

[1:58:01] Trustee Patrick: it's called a Terms of Reference.

[1:58:02] Trustee Patrick: It's on our project page if you want to look at it.

[1:58:05] Trustee Patrick: I think that's an example of the document that Russ referred to

[1:58:09] Trustee Patrick: that is more than the project charter and more detail on the project.

[1:58:16] Trustee Patrick: And like I said, I appreciate staff's efforts on building these pieces, and I think we'll all have better decision-making tools.

[1:58:26] Voice 12: Anybody else?

[1:58:32] Voice 12: So this isn't a request for us to actually do anything other than pay attention and respond when appropriate?

[1:58:41] Voice 4: Yeah, I mean, you've been tasked with this, which, you know, I don't know if it's a perfect fit for you, but you're the champion of the corporate planning process framework piece.

[1:58:54] Voice 4: So you want to see something on your desks at some point that is referred from staff and the working group, and you take it and hand review it and recommend it to trust counsel.

[1:59:07] Voice 4: You're halfway there because you've already forwarded the framework itself to Trust Council in last September.

[1:59:14] Voice 4: They seem to nod.

[1:59:15] Voice 4: They moved along.

[1:59:16] Voice 4: They asked you to keep the work going.

[1:59:18] Voice 4: So you're to monitor, and it's to you that we owe a finished product.

[1:59:25] Voice 12: Fair enough.

[1:59:27] Voice 12: All right.

[1:59:29] Voice 12: So in terms of what we have in front of us, we'll table this briefing for information and keep ourselves attuned.

[1:59:38] Voice 12: and

[1:59:39] Voice 4: it's on your um a follow-up action list so you'll always be at every meeting you should be

[1:59:44] Voice 4: getting an update as to its status all

[1:59:49] Voice 12: right thank you um next is uh the big item for uh

[1:59:56] Voice 12: today's discussion update on the project to request

[2:00:00] Voice 12: to ministerial changes with regards to islands trust a briefing so again russ you have provided

[2:00:08] Voice 12: us with a briefing and more

[2:00:13] Voice 4: angels fair to fear to tread uh chair getty so i've just really

[2:00:16] Voice 4: summarized um if you want one minute on this um there's nothing new in my briefing um

[2:00:23] Voice 4: Um, uh, just, just from a very high level perspective, trust council, um, referred the

[2:00:32] Voice 4: letter, uh, the request to the province, to the governance committee for you to further

[2:00:37] Voice 4: that.

[2:00:38] Voice 4: And as part of that, of your discussions, you're going, well, we want to make sure we're

[2:00:41] Voice 4: asking of the province, what we believe in meaning this trust council.

[2:00:45] Voice 4: And in order to do that, you contemplated, should we have a conversation around the,

[2:00:50] Voice 4: uh, the 2022 governance report?

[2:00:52] Voice 4: And if we're going to do that, should we talk with the actual contracted people who produced that report?

[2:01:01] Voice 4: And there's been emails back and forth around those things.

[2:01:06] Voice 4: Nevertheless, the overall task that you've been given has not changed.

[2:01:11] Voice 4: And that is some furthering of that letter or perhaps a recommendation to trust counsel to go one way or another.

[2:01:20] Voice 4: other and so I've just pulled those various elements together in a very

[2:01:24] Voice 4: short briefing to go what is the temperature on this project do you want

[2:01:29] Voice 4: to continue in the in your current direction or discuss how you want to

[2:01:34] Voice 4: deal with the governance review an alternative would be to you know park

[2:01:38] Voice 4: that concept you are actually working through the governance review yourselves

[2:01:43] Voice 4: maybe you engage with three or four focus areas that were embedded in the

[2:01:48] Voice 4: first letter test those with trust counsel to see you know do we have um the support of this body

[2:01:55] Voice 4: um or uh maintain the status quo um but anyway here it is uh for your consideration

[2:02:04] Voice 4: and i attached uh the summary document of um in the fall that we presented to you which was the

[2:02:11] Voice 4: original letter um the chronology and um sort of the history of it so you have some context

[2:02:23] Voice 4: And this, of course, is one of your follow-up action items.

[2:02:26] Voice 12: So where do we want to go from here?

[2:02:29] Voice 12: It seems to me that it's becoming clear to me that there's two different things between the governance review and the letter to the province.

[2:02:39] Voice 12: The governance review is internal and the letter to the province is wider.

[2:02:44] Voice 12: um and that um we've got the fallout from the meeting with the consultants and how we deal

[2:02:55] Voice 12: with that and regardless of um people's reactions to that where do we go from here so um i got some

[2:03:06] Voice 12: hands up trustee patrick you

[2:03:08] Trustee Patrick: know i'm beginning to feel like a broken record but um i do absolutely

[2:03:13] Trustee Patrick: concur that we have to keep the governance review report the internal work separate from our request

[2:03:19] Trustee Patrick: of the province also time is of the essence we're about to go into an election and the election

[2:03:25] Trustee Patrick: generally sets the tone in the term for the work that's going to be done into the next term of the

[2:03:32] Trustee Patrick: of the province so if our request for a review is not in prior to the election and becomes at least

[2:03:39] Trustee Patrick: to conversation during the election, it will remain not an issue at all in the next term of

[2:03:45] Trustee Patrick: whatever government is formed. So I actually encourage that we should probably just vote on

[2:03:52] Trustee Patrick: the original motion or tweak it if it wishes to be tweaked. But that requesting a review,

[2:03:58] Trustee Patrick: I think the part of the letter from Minister Cullen asked to hear about the trustees this

[2:04:02] Trustee Patrick: this term, did they concur and want to review?

[2:04:06] Trustee Patrick: And so I think we need to clarify

[2:04:09] Trustee Patrick: that the governance internal work is important

[2:04:12] Trustee Patrick: and will carry on and be addressed by this trust council.

[2:04:16] Trustee Patrick: But I would hope that's trust council would support

[2:04:18] Trustee Patrick: that we're also looking at the province to behave

[2:04:21] Trustee Patrick: as a parent of this organization

[2:04:24] Trustee Patrick: to review these larger issues in a more meaningful way.

[2:04:30] Trustee Patrick: way. Thank you, Trustee Bernardo.

[2:04:37] Voice 8: Right. I mean, it's remarkable to me that, you know, we're still

[2:04:41] Voice 8: wandering around with this, you know, distinction between what's in the governance review

[2:04:46] Voice 8: and the letter to the province or the outreach to the province. As Trustee Patrick has pointed

[2:04:51] Voice 8: out many times and Chair Getty, you've referred to it now. I mean, there is a definite distinction

[2:04:57] Voice 8: between what the governance report deals with and legislative change. The governance report at best

[2:05:03] Voice 8: brushes by the question of potential legislative changes but does not really get into it it's not

[2:05:09] Voice 8: useful in that respect and so it's a bit of a distraction to sort of like model the two together

[2:05:18] Voice 8: from the looking at the governance review from the report from the outside i think any sensible

[2:05:26] Voice 8: person it will occur to them that maybe one of the issues here is that all of these problems that are

[2:05:34] Voice 8: are discussed in it are related to the structure of the trust it's a question and the history of

[2:05:43] Voice 8: the initial overture to the province we all know what happened they bounced it back i don't think

[2:05:48] Voice 8: we're going to get traction unless when we go back we have actually a fairly specific

[2:05:57] Voice 8: list of issues not necessarily solutions but list of specific issues that we have identified

[2:06:03] Voice 8: identified, that have the potential or that intersect with the need for legislative change

[2:06:10] Voice 8: to make the trust work better. We don't know what those are. I have some ideas of my own about

[2:06:17] Voice 8: the composition of trust council and voting there. But I think, you know, trust council has

[2:06:26] Voice 8: tasked this committee with developing basically a draft to bring to trust council.

[2:06:32] Voice 8: so i don't understand why we're still clearing our throats on this i mean how about we just get

[2:06:40] Voice 8: on with it and you know instead of referring to the old work that was done in the last term

[2:06:47] Voice 8: we need we need to apply our own thinking to what we think is necessary in terms of or at least

[2:06:55] Voice 8: what we think it's necessary to explore in terms of legislative change that's what we're here for

[2:07:01] Voice 8: that's the job of this committee so my point here is um trust council needs and wants a start

[2:07:12] Voice 8: on how to communicate with the province they've asked us to get them started let's do it let's

[2:07:19] Voice 8: get to work on it let's you know we've got this this code of conduct thing to deal with but um

[2:07:25] Voice 8: i think our priority for our very next meeting should be virtually wholly dedicated to dealing

[2:07:30] Voice 8: with this issue that we bring our points to the meeting to discuss about about what we think

[2:07:37] Voice 8: uh the province needs to know and that's a start and you know if we keep working at it in very

[2:07:42] Voice 8: short order we'll actually have some sort of communication i don't expect it'll be tremendously

[2:07:46] Voice 8: long but it's incumbent on us to identify where we think legislative change may be necessary and

[2:07:53] Voice 8: uh i think we should stop delaying on this let's get on with it it's

[2:07:58] Voice 12: on the agenda for today trustee

[2:08:00] Voice 12: peterson yeah

[2:08:02] Voice 9: i concur with a lot of what uh trustee bernardo said i i think we do want to

[2:08:07] Voice 9: consider um specifics uh that we do want to get something before trust council um

[2:08:17] Voice 9: whether we're whether the format of trust council's consideration now that we do have

[2:08:23] Voice 9: committee of the whole as an option uh is committee of the whole or or we just bring

[2:08:29] Voice 9: a request for a decision i think that that's open for us to discuss but i do i i strongly agree that

[2:08:36] Voice 9: we need specifics to to bring to trust council to consider um approving as as a request for

[2:08:45] Voice 9: the province around the legislative issues um if we're not if if we don't have specifics i

[2:08:52] Voice 9: don't think we're going to get any traction um there is as trustee patrick pointed out there is

[2:08:59] Voice 9: is the timeline consideration of the looming election.

[2:09:05] Voice 9: That's certainly an issue we need to be aware of

[2:09:09] Voice 9: and I support trying to get this done sooner than later.

[2:09:16] Voice 9: And then the other thing that was brought up before,

[2:09:21] Voice 9: but was the suggestion of going back

[2:09:28] Voice 9: to talk to the consultants.

[2:09:29] Voice 9: And, and again, if, if, if we want to consider that we need specifics, what, what do we want specifically? So, um, I agree. Let's, let's all do our homework and come back to our, our next meeting with our specific requests for the province, um, that, that we think trust council should consider.

[2:09:52] Voice 9: consider you know you're

[2:09:58] Voice 12: breaking up and maybe turn your uh camera off yeah

[2:10:09] Voice 9: sorry about that

[2:10:10] Voice 9: i'm in motion again um and uh but i i did conclude my remarks okay

[2:10:16] Voice 12: anyone else trustee stanford

[2:10:21] Voice 12: yes

[2:10:25] Trustee Stamford: thank you um i i agree we need to move forward with this i think getting bogged down

[2:10:32] Trustee Stamford: and reviewing the governance report with the consultants again

[2:10:39] Trustee Stamford: will only confuse matters.

[2:10:42] Trustee Stamford: It's a resource.

[2:10:43] Trustee Stamford: It's a valuable resource.

[2:10:44] Trustee Stamford: It's a perspective.

[2:10:46] Trustee Stamford: And that gets us to a point with which we then move on towards an ask.

[2:10:52] Trustee Stamford: Going over it again, I think we're in a different position now.

[2:10:58] Trustee Stamford: There's different issues.

[2:10:59] Trustee Stamford: issues um i still am concerned about the fact we never did respond to it publicly so it sits there

[2:11:07] Trustee Stamford: um but that that is what it is i i just feel we need to make use of are the resources we have

[2:11:16] Trustee Stamford: including that and move forward with a an appropriate ask to the government okay um

[2:11:27] Voice 12: i'm a little bit worried that um we keep kicking the can down the road it's on the

[2:11:32] Voice 12: the agenda for today and um you know to put it on the agenda for july and dig deep into it um

[2:11:41] Voice 12: i think is uh another we have an hour or a bit today and i think we should try and dig into it

[2:11:52] Voice 12: as much as we can and um you know the the reason why we wanted to involve the consultants um

[2:12:02] Voice 12: And you'll see in the minutes that one of the things was that we needed to be specific in terms of what our questions were going to be.

[2:12:13] Voice 12: And we didn't do that prior to my meeting with Russ and the consultants.

[2:12:19] Voice 12: And then they pointedly said, despite what they had said in their review, that the mandate was ultimately important in terms of getting clarification and some sort of consensus around that.

[2:12:37] Voice 12: They started off part of the conversation in terms of why in the world would we ever start with that?

[2:12:42] Voice 12: um so it was i was a little thrown off but uh in terms of them pointedly asking why did we want to

[2:12:51] Voice 12: meet now two years after they had presented it um so that's when i went back to um everybody here

[2:13:00] Voice 12: and said you know we need specifics and i didn't get any reply to that so um that was the the re and

[2:13:09] Voice 12: And plus one of the comments from one or two of the members

[2:13:16] Voice 12: was that the cost was taking up all of our budget.

[2:13:20] Voice 12: So they're not averse to meeting with us.

[2:13:26] Voice 12: They just need to know why.

[2:13:27] Voice 12: And I keep thinking through that

[2:13:32] Voice 12: and trying to come up with something in terms of why,

[2:13:36] Voice 12: but I haven't had anything from any of you.

[2:13:38] Voice 12: So maybe if we don't want to get an opinion from this council in terms of what they think about the review, if we don't want to spend the time and the money preparing to meet with the consultants ourselves, let alone them meeting with council, that's been suggested in the past.

[2:14:04] Voice 12: And we want to focus instead more on what is the request to the province and the four or five specifics that were mentioned in the letter to the province back in, whenever that was, July of 22.

[2:14:27] Voice 12: and we won't take advantage of the conversations

[2:14:30] Voice 12: that are going to come up in the election

[2:14:32] Voice 12: and whether we can raise this onto the radar.

[2:14:38] Voice 12: I think those are the competing interests

[2:14:41] Voice 12: that we have to sort out

[2:14:42] Voice 12: and we need to spend some time doing that today.

[2:14:45] Voice 12: So, sorry, Trustee Harris.

[2:14:50] Voice 7: Well, as far as I remember,

[2:14:52] Voice 7: we made a motion to speak with a consultant,

[2:14:54] Voice 7: so I would hope that is still going to be the case.

[2:14:56] Voice 7: It's strange to me that this is a discussion at this point.

[2:15:00] Voice 7: One of the questions that I will have for the consultants,

[2:15:04] Voice 7: it could be easily said to them, though, prior to me mentioning what my question,

[2:15:10] Voice 7: one of my questions would be, is that we want to meet with them

[2:15:14] Voice 7: to discuss the governance review, which they pen.

[2:15:17] Voice 7: One of the questions that I have would be regarding the undemocratic nature

[2:15:21] Voice 7: of the islands trust and and how that plays into the dysfunction of the the

[2:15:29] Voice 7: structure of the organization specifically and importantly of you

[2:15:37] Voice 7: know as far as Salt Spring Island goes with its population but that would be

[2:15:42] Voice 7: one of my questions for them I'll leave it at that thank you

[2:15:49] Voice 12: trustee Bernardo

[2:15:51] Voice 12: know thank

[2:15:52] Voice 8: you um i like the idea of us drilling into this right now but i you know uh again i've

[2:16:00] Voice 8: got to make the same point that keeps getting made and somehow we ignore it which is yeah the

[2:16:05] Voice 8: governance report yeah we do need to talk to the authors we did resolve on that we do need to take

[2:16:10] Voice 8: a clear position of what's worthwhile and what isn't in that report we need to provide a value

[2:16:15] Voice 8: judgment to trust council about that but that's all a different thing from the provincial outreach

[2:16:21] Voice 8: outreach so what are we doing bumbling around tripping over that piece of business which is

[2:16:27] Voice 8: a separate thing that belongs in a separate room when we have this provincial outreach which is

[2:16:32] Voice 8: frankly a bigger priority uh there's for the reasons that trustee patrick gave there's some

[2:16:38] Voice 8: urgency to do it to doing it but at the point i've made before it is that uh this is a personal

[2:16:45] Voice 8: belief issue many of the things that we see in the governance report are a consequence of our

[2:16:51] Voice 8: structure and our procedures the procedures we can handle you know with enough effort we can

[2:16:58] Voice 8: figure that out but we have to think about the structure of the thing there's no point talking

[2:17:02] Voice 8: to the province unless it's something that only the province can deal with the previous letter

[2:17:08] Voice 8: got bounced because we didn't draw the trust didn't draw a distinction between those things

[2:17:14] Voice 8: and the province needs specific guidance from us about what the issues are that are potentially

[2:17:20] Voice 8: potentially legislative so that's all different from the governance review i share the view that

[2:17:27] Voice 8: it's important to talk to the authors and we ought to have some specific questions for them

[2:17:30] Voice 8: but that's a different item that's a different work item than developing this this this um

[2:17:37] Voice 8: proposal to sort of reach out to the province and to follow up on chair getty's you know i think

[2:17:45] Voice 8: appropriate direction or suggestion that we sort of do some work on this today like actual concrete

[2:17:50] Voice 8: rework um yeah there's i i've got i'll introduce two problems that i think uh we should be

[2:18:00] Voice 8: considering discussing in a in a letter to the province one is if you look at the way the trust

[2:18:07] Voice 8: is structured we don't really have a trustee executive function what you have is trust council

[2:18:15] Voice 8: Council that authorizes things. And we have an executive committee that isn't trusted to some

[2:18:25] Voice 8: extent with day-to-day operations and providing guidance to the staff through the CAO on that

[2:18:32] Voice 8: front. But in terms of having trustees who, or a mechanism that speaks for all of the trust area,

[2:18:43] Voice 8: For example, the executive committee is not in a position to demonstrate leadership for the trust area as a whole.

[2:18:55] Voice 8: There is no executive function other than the CAO.

[2:19:00] Voice 8: I don't know what the solution to that is, but what we have is a legislature without a cabinet and without a prime minister.

[2:19:06] Voice 8: And so it's no mystery that we are constantly getting bogged down with lots of great ideas that come from trust counsel, but it's impossible to prioritize them.

[2:19:18] Voice 8: And staff ends up with a gazillion things on its list and sorting things out and having the kind of managerial direction that sets clear political priorities for the staff and is authorized to do so.

[2:19:34] Voice 8: We don't have an executive that's in a position to do that.

[2:19:38] Voice 8: And that's a direct consequence of giving all of the responsibility to Trust Council for these trust area issues, but not having an executive function built into the legislation.

[2:19:50] Voice 8: So that's one issue. The other issue touches on the points that Trustee Harris was talking about, which is it takes a majority.

[2:19:58] Voice 8: If everybody attends a Trust Council meeting, that's where the budget's decided and that's where the trust policy statement will be decided.

[2:20:05] Voice 8: A majority of 14 trustees can get anything passed. Now, because of the way we elect our trustees, the situation is the 14 lowest population local trust areas, if you add up their total population, that represents roughly 15% of the trust area population.

[2:20:29] Voice 8: population what that means is that we have a structure in which it is possible for

[2:20:36] Voice 8: trustees who represent roughly 15 percent of the trust area population if they vote en masse they

[2:20:43] Voice 8: can get anything they want done they could pass a trust policy statement that everybody else the

[2:20:50] Voice 8: other 85 percent have to live with trust council is not democratic that's that's a problem it's

[2:21:00] Voice 8: not democratic because it doesn't observe the principle of representation by population

[2:21:07] Voice 8: now if you did have something like that i like there are no easy solutions to this by the way

[2:21:12] Voice 8: which is it because if you did have representation by population salt spring gabriola together could

[2:21:20] Voice 8: probably get anything they want done everybody else would have to sit by and watch i don't know

[2:21:25] Voice 8: what the solution to the problem is uh but there's a structural issue here about trust council is

[2:21:31] Voice 8: fundamentally not democratic in how it makes its decisions. I'm not saying that as a criticism of

[2:21:39] Voice 8: anybody's goodwill or the sincerity of the trustees. They have not played those political

[2:21:47] Voice 8: games. But because we have that structure, what we actually have is a lack of accountability to

[2:21:52] Voice 8: the trust area population for trust council decisions. That ties back to the executive

[2:21:57] Voice 8: point i made before trust council could get completely lost and make a complete mess of

[2:22:02] Voice 8: things and in the next election there's no accountability for the popular the population

[2:22:07] Voice 8: has no tools to rope it in so those are two issues that i think uh we need to explore um

[2:22:14] Voice 8: in uh our outreach to the province thank you

[2:22:20] Voice 3: cao hudson pillar uh

[2:22:23] Voice 4: i'll decline until the

[2:22:25] Voice 4: elected officials have

[2:22:26] Voice 7: spoken trustee harris uh you know one simple solution um i see is that um

[2:22:33] Voice 7: in the letter to the province we uh we simply state what trustee bernardo was was you know

[2:22:44] Voice 7: something along the lines of what he was saying there and um it's clear that salt spring island

[2:22:51] Voice 7: should be released from the island's trust organization.

[2:22:55] Voice 7: It doesn't fit anymore, it's not working.

[2:22:57] Voice 7: The undemocratic nature of it is completely out of skew.

[2:23:04] Voice 7: And it's clear the island needs to be a municipality.

[2:23:07] Voice 7: So that would be my suggestion.

[2:23:18] Voice 12: Trustee Stamford.

[2:23:21] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, and Trustee Harris, we tried that a few years ago

[2:23:25] Trustee Stamford: and and salt spring spoke um we tried that in 2007 with the governance review for salt spring

[2:23:33] Trustee Stamford: specifically to provide more um um representation uh at trust council i'm

[2:23:42] Voice 7: sorry but we did not ask

[2:23:43] Voice 7: to be released from the islands trust that was with the islands trust still um attached

[2:23:49] Trustee Stamford: Okay, you know what, excuse me, but I am speaking, and I would like some kind of...

[2:23:57] Voice 7: I apologize, I had to rebuttal that.

[2:23:59] Trustee Stamford: Okay, forget it.

[2:23:59] Voice 7: That wasn't true. Thank you.

[2:24:01] Voice 7: Excuse

[2:24:01] Trustee Stamford: me, but if this is not going to be held like a proper meeting, I will have to stop speaking. Thank you.

[2:24:09] Voice 8: Point of order.

[2:24:12] Voice 8: I asked the chair to intervene here. I mean, this is something the chair should be managing, please.

[2:24:16] Voice 8: Thank

[2:24:17] Voice 12: you. So we're going to let Trustee Stamford complete and nobody's going to interrupt. You get a chance to speak afterwards.

[2:24:27] Voice 12: Thank

[2:24:28] Trustee Stamford: you. There was another opportunity for the representation to be augmented through the governance review in 2007. We could review that and make that as an opportunity or an option for the government to look at.

[2:24:49] Trustee Stamford: That may be correct that, yes, Salt Spring needs to go in a different direction, but we have to do that through a democratic way, too. So, I mean, there are options out there. I'm not sure if it's going to be simple, as simple as, oh, they're no longer part of the Islands Trust.

[2:25:08] Trustee Stamford: trust? I think these questions, like we do need to talk about this, but stop going over the problems

[2:25:17] Trustee Stamford: and start actually looking at suggestions, because that's when it becomes hard, is when we don't have

[2:25:25] Trustee Stamford: a specific suggestion. We're just throwing out problems all the time, over and over and over

[2:25:30] Trustee Stamford: again. So I would like to see some solutions and then be able to debate those rather than going

[2:25:37] Trustee Stamford: going over the problems again.

[2:25:40] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[2:25:41] Voice 12: There was a comment somewhere

[2:25:43] Voice 12: that you have to be careful too.

[2:25:45] Voice 12: If you just hand it over to the province,

[2:25:47] Voice 12: you might not like the response.

[2:25:49] Voice 12: So if we don't have suggestions,

[2:25:51] Voice 12: we could open ourselves up to some unknowns.

[2:25:56] Voice 12: Trustee Patrick.

[2:26:01] Trustee Patrick: I was gonna make a suggestion.

[2:26:02] Trustee Patrick: Well, that, you know, we had one, two, three, four,

[2:26:06] Trustee Patrick: six points in the previous motion

[2:26:09] Trustee Patrick: that if we were to look at each of those

[2:26:11] Trustee Patrick: and talk about what are the issues behind that to see, you know, are we missing something?

[2:26:16] Trustee Patrick: Are they still relevant today? Could they be bundled differently?

[2:26:21] Trustee Patrick: That that would be a good way to structure this conversation.

[2:26:24] Trustee Patrick: And those are on page 36 of the agenda package, or the A through F.

[2:26:33] Voice 12: Right. We've also had some discussions in terms of this is a larger issue than just the governance

[2:26:40] Voice 12: so that we need to figure out how to work with some other inside and outside other committees

[2:26:47] Voice 12: and outside agents, possibly getting some advice in terms of people that lobby provincial governments.

[2:26:57] Voice 12: CAO Hudson-Piller?

[2:26:59] Voice 4: Yes, Madam Chair.

[2:27:00] Voice 4: So I heartily agree with Trustee Patrick.

[2:27:03] Voice 4: A great starting point for you would be those A, B, C, D, E, and F,

[2:27:09] Voice 4: notwithstanding b and i mean a and c are kind of the same um or maybe a distinction without

[2:27:17] Voice 4: a difference but you could take those and then because i don't think that i think the province

[2:27:24] Voice 4: was forced to extrapolate when they received this letter what those various elements meant so if you

[2:27:30] Voice 4: lingered over each of those identified the problem maybe solutions would follow um associated with it

[2:27:36] Voice 4: And or at least get that, you know, we'd have a recorded way of starting to build your thinking that ultimately will end up with Trust Council with some key points.

[2:27:48] Voice 4: And then I can speak a little bit about just having spoken with provincial officials around the Islands Trust and the population, the voting mechanisms and so forth, which is one of the, so it looks like you're talking about one of the topics.

[2:27:59] Voice 4: and um with regards salt springs certainly there would be um as has been described there's been a

[2:28:06] Voice 4: couple instances where um there's been some attempt to shift that the province also looks

[2:28:11] Voice 4: at what you know what is the ultimate impact associated with um let's say a voting imbalance

[2:28:20] Voice 4: or perceived one meaning that 75 of the decisions are made by the ltc associated with any local trust

[2:28:26] Voice 4: committee so you're really talking when you're approaching the province around trust council

[2:28:31] Voice 4: decisions that pertain to gabriela saltspring or anywhere else um so those would be things

[2:28:39] Voice 4: like the policy statement or or um overall reconciliation policy but it's not the whole

[2:28:46] Voice 4: enchilada so when you go back and have that conversation with the province you have to i

[2:28:50] Voice 4: think nuance it um a little bit or think through you know what do you where's the inequity presenting

[2:28:56] Voice 4: itself, if that's what's a consideration. Anyway, I offer those two thoughts.

[2:29:03] Voice 3: Trustee Harris.

[2:29:05] Voice 7: And I apologize for interrupting, but I will say loudly that what I'm proposing

[2:29:12] Voice 7: and what would be happening, what needs to happen, is far different from the previous

[2:29:17] Voice 7: referendum and referendums that have been held in Salt Spring, and it will be coming up to,

[2:29:22] Voice 7: you know, about the time for another one fairly shortly. In the past, the Island's Trust would

[2:29:28] Voice 7: still be um or the salt spring island will still would still have been beholden to the islands

[2:29:33] Voice 7: trust as well as being a municipality and many people were not um in favor of having another

[2:29:39] Voice 7: uh added layer of government we already have the crd islands trust and then a municipality we got

[2:29:43] Voice 7: three like talk about a gong show um there was also um quite a well-organized effort by a certain

[2:29:49] Voice 7: NGO, a fear-mongering effort to influence people to vote against the municipality idea.

[2:30:00] Voice 7: So, what I'm suggesting is that islands over a certain population threshold be released from the Islands Trust fully and completely, and the province, you know, clearly, there could be some sort of mechanism put in place where the municipality would have a mandate of its own, but not be beholden to any other organizations, such as the Islands Trust or the Islands Trust Conservancy.

[2:30:24] Voice 7: um so far different than um than what we've had in the past and um i'll leave it at that for now

[2:30:34] Voice 7: thank you

[2:30:35] Voice 12: trustee bernardo uh

[2:30:39] Voice 8: responding to uh uh but the stanford's welcome encouragement that we

[2:30:47] Voice 8: like would get on with the business of actually talking about solutions

[2:30:51] Voice 8: i'm going to throw out a couple of thoughts out here and i'm not invested in either one of them

[2:30:56] Voice 8: I want to be clear about this, but it's for the purposes of sort of energizing discussion and getting people to think about it.

[2:31:04] Voice 8: This democracy deficit I've talked about, you know, and it is interrelated to this problem of not having executive, you know, executive leadership that has the authority to actually lead.

[2:31:16] Voice 8: uh regional districts in terms they have a similar problem of um trying to make regional

[2:31:25] Voice 8: district-wide decisions but they have different municipalities and other bodies and representatives

[2:31:31] Voice 8: who are representing different amounts of people different populations and the way they deal with

[2:31:36] Voice 8: that is they they do they have weighted voting so uh that's based on one vote for each uh unit

[2:31:46] Voice 8: of population that has the least amount of population that becomes a denominator figuring

[2:31:50] Voice 8: out how many people that you have how many votes you have for example if you got a village of a

[2:31:55] Voice 8: thousand people they get one vote if there's a town that's got 10 000 people well they get 10 votes

[2:32:02] Voice 8: uh how that form of weighted voting uh uh is if that was accepted or adopted i think it would

[2:32:12] Voice 8: would bring in a whole host of problems, a whole host of different problems. Like I said before,

[2:32:17] Voice 8: you would have a domination problem. Having said that, some form of weighted voting

[2:32:26] Voice 8: might be a solution to adjusting this deficit we have in terms of fair representation,

[2:32:32] Voice 8: in terms of the population of Trust Council. Another solution, and this is very dramatic,

[2:32:37] Voice 8: uh you'll recall when the folks when we heard from the folks from san juan county they discussed

[2:32:44] Voice 8: their history to a certain extent and uh explained that they'd had a similar similar governance

[2:32:50] Voice 8: challenges due to having their decision making uh formally uh done by delegates from different

[2:32:58] Voice 8: communities municipalities and towns and different areas similar to regional districts but without

[2:33:03] Voice 8: proper executive leadership and they too found themselves in a situation

[2:33:07] Voice 8: where it was very hard for the county government to actually get anything

[2:33:11] Voice 8: done. And they had a lot of acrimony. The solution

[2:33:16] Voice 8: was to change the structure of the county government so that what they have now

[2:33:20] Voice 8: is, yes, you've got all these different constituent governments

[2:33:24] Voice 8: but the actual county-wide work, the leadership for that

[2:33:28] Voice 8: is conducted by commissioners who are elected

[2:33:32] Voice 8: countywide. So one solution, very dramatic, would be to basically get rid of Trust Council and

[2:33:37] Voice 8: replace it with an area-wide commission that's elected to be responsible for area-wide issues.

[2:33:46] Voice 8: That would be a complicated and difficult piece of business. And as I said, I'm not

[2:33:50] Voice 8: invested in either one of those solutions. But I think that's the kind of thinking we need to get

[2:33:58] Voice 8: into which is when we're talking about governance structure for example in that resolution we saw

[2:34:04] Voice 8: item c you know like what is the government what should be the governance structural organization

[2:34:10] Voice 8: that's that raises this type of question it is by nature a big deal it means really changing

[2:34:18] Voice 8: the way the organization operates and uh that requires a lot of thinking but it's that's the

[2:34:25] Voice 8: the direction I think we need to go into. We have to challenge ourselves

[2:34:29] Voice 8: to be brave enough to think outside of the traditional

[2:34:33] Voice 8: way of doing things. My own view is that the organization

[2:34:36] Voice 8: is outdated in terms of its structure. Not its mission, but its structure

[2:34:41] Voice 8: is outdated. All right, that's all I've got to say on that for now.

[2:34:46] Voice 8: Thank you.

[2:34:50] Voice 12: Anyone else? All right, so

[2:34:55] Voice 12: let's turn to page 36 and these

[2:34:59] Voice 12: what's up on the screen in terms of the

[2:35:03] Voice 12: content of the letter that was sent back in 22.

[2:35:10] Voice 12: I'm just trying to get my head around Joe's

[2:35:12] Voice 12: suggestion. That is very interesting.

[2:35:16] Voice 12: But what of these

[2:35:21] Voice 12: six items could we drill into today?

[2:35:26] Voice 12: I think the funding mechanism

[2:35:32] Voice 12: that's a whole other strategy in terms of of getting the government to prioritize getting

[2:35:38] Voice 12: the province to prioritize better funding and we have to i think figure out a way of justifying

[2:35:48] Voice 12: that and backing it up and i think the expanded jurisdiction in terms of reconciliation and

[2:35:54] Voice 12: housing and all of the other things we've been getting a little bit of money for

[2:35:59] Voice 12: um we could work on that one trustee patrick being

[2:36:09] Trustee Patrick: involved in and how these came up about

[2:36:12] Trustee Patrick: in the beginning the funding was purposely put at item f because it was we need to do those other

[2:36:17] Trustee Patrick: things we need to look at the you know the governance structure and and the clarification

[2:36:22] Trustee Patrick: of the mandate and and and the provinces and you know how we are going to implement uh um

[2:36:30] Trustee Patrick: um drippa and as well as you know that's the outcome is now to once those clarities are made

[2:36:38] Trustee Patrick: you know what is the budget and where does that money come from how much is from the elected

[2:36:43] Trustee Patrick: in the elected from the constituents living in the island versus important to the province to

[2:36:48] Trustee Patrick: put funding on the table permanent funding not just little grants here and there the thought

[2:36:57] Voice 12: That just occurred to me that if we're going to muddle through some of this, you know, I'm not sure that it's going to be the level of sophistication that is needed in terms of it actually being, I don't know, productive and persuasive with the government, with the province.

[2:37:19] Voice 12: So, and it could get worse instead of better if we open it up to the entire Trust Council in terms of, you know, having, as we've said before, so many great ideas and really a lot of difficulty getting into it.

[2:37:36] Voice 12: So, how do we, how do we get help with this?

[2:37:44] Voice 12: Trustee Bernardo?

[2:37:45] Voice 12: Yeah,

[2:37:47] Voice 8: I want to address the point you just made about, you know, you know, the nervousness about bringing whatever work product that we develop, bringing it to Trust Council.

[2:37:56] Voice 8: First of all, it's unavoidable. Trust Council gets to decide. It's not our business. I mean, again, we're advisory.

[2:38:02] Voice 8: But having said that, I think we should take some comfort from the fact that when we've actually gone to Trust Council with a very focused analysis and a clear recommendation that's supportable, that's supported by a rational argument, it has done quite a bit to focus the discussion at Trust Council and it's led to some actually productive outcomes.

[2:38:27] Voice 8: comes so i think if we do that with this letter and i i want to point out that i think the ceo

[2:38:33] Voice 8: is quite right that uh that little shopping list from a to f that uh the previous um council had

[2:38:44] Voice 8: developed uh is a sound framework it probably needs some work as he says some of these things

[2:38:50] Voice 8: are repetitive of each other but it does cover more or less the territory of the big issues the

[2:38:56] Voice 8: the big questions that we need to look at and i think his suggestion is well taken that which is

[2:39:01] Voice 8: that um we can make good progress by filling those things out uh they're all very general

[2:39:08] Voice 8: but if we fill them out by being very specific about what how we see those issues uh i think

[2:39:16] Voice 8: we will get some traction with the province and we'll get traction with trust council and i don't

[2:39:20] Voice 8: think i i do agree with trustee stamford that the way we provoke productive discussion is by coming

[2:39:26] Voice 8: coming up with solutions or proposals, it's not necessary to have a solution to every problem.

[2:39:35] Voice 8: If you can have a mix of saying, look, this seems like a solution going forward,

[2:39:40] Voice 8: or there are some options here, so long as we, whether we offer a proposal or simply ask

[2:39:49] Voice 8: really sharp questions that are very focused, both will serve to focus the province what the

[2:39:57] Voice 8: issues are. For example, that democracy issue I'm obsessing about. Whatever we tell the province

[2:40:03] Voice 8: about that, it's going to have to be tentative. But it is sufficient, I think, if we ask questions

[2:40:10] Voice 8: in that range to say, look, this is the problem, you know, the governance problem. We need to think

[2:40:17] Voice 8: outside the box, blah, blah, blah. Here are some thoughts. By doing that, without necessarily

[2:40:23] Voice 8: settling on a solution, that creates a framework for the province to think, oh, okay, that's what

[2:40:29] Voice 8: they're thinking about it's not just some generic abstract language but no this is concrete and i

[2:40:37] Voice 8: don't think we should expect that when we send whatever we do send to the province that's like

[2:40:42] Voice 8: hey presto there's going to be a magic solution and the problems will say okay we'll do this or

[2:40:46] Voice 8: that i would view that to be that the beginning of what should be a productive dialogue between

[2:40:52] Voice 8: the ministry and ourselves in terms of developing things together. Thank you.

[2:40:59] Voice 12: I agree with you that, you know, when we can come up with a focused analysis and rational arguments

[2:41:05] Voice 12: that we can be persuasive and we can help people come to some sort of an agreement, but we're not

[2:41:11] Voice 12: there. So my question was, how do we get there on this issue? Right? So we have a little bit of time

[2:41:18] Voice 12: today do we dig into one of these um do we you know come out of that saying okay let's divide

[2:41:24] Voice 12: it up and people put their minds to it um you know how do we how do we fill in that um blah blah blah

[2:41:32] Voice 12: that you know here we have a list of suggestions and ideas that we want to talk about seriously

[2:41:38] Voice 12: um and we're still at this point talking about shoulda woulda um coulda but you know we need

[2:41:49] Voice 12: to get into some of the specifics, I think.

[2:41:53] Voice 8: If I may, Chair, I would appreciate hearing from other trustees

[2:41:57] Voice 8: about whether or not the concern that I've expressed

[2:42:01] Voice 8: about the representation deficit on Trust Council,

[2:42:04] Voice 8: whether they agree, whether they think it's a problem or not.

[2:42:10] Voice 8: I mean, it's all fine and well for all of us

[2:42:13] Voice 8: to sort of throw out our different ideas,

[2:42:14] Voice 8: but at some point we actually have to engage with each other's ideas.

[2:42:17] Voice 8: I think that's the starting point.

[2:42:18] Voice 8: and okay

[2:42:20] Voice 12: so let's do a straw poll does everybody agree that there's a vast difference between

[2:42:24] Voice 12: two representatives for salt spring and two representatives for i

[2:42:28] Voice 6: don't

[2:42:29] Voice 12: know fetus

[2:42:30] Voice 12: a

[2:42:31] Voice 8: gambier we're we're second lowest population i think south pender is the lowest absolutely

[2:42:36] Voice 8: all

[2:42:38] Voice 12: right everybody's hands up i think i don't think there's disagreement on some of those

[2:42:49] Voice 12: was pretty fundamental, but coming up with solutions, I mean, it's certainly worth thinking

[2:42:56] Voice 12: about the, and I'm glad you mentioned the San Juan County. That's a good reminder in terms of

[2:43:04] Voice 12: how they came out of this. Trustee Patrick.

[2:43:08] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, well, when I look at item A, I think that

[2:43:11] Trustee Patrick: that's an example we just talked about. I think I hope we can agree that there's a representation

[2:43:16] Trustee Patrick: or democracy question that we're raising.

[2:43:21] Trustee Patrick: The San Juan model is an example

[2:43:24] Trustee Patrick: that we can point the province

[2:43:26] Trustee Patrick: to where the lessons learned there.

[2:43:29] Trustee Patrick: There could be other things.

[2:43:30] Trustee Patrick: And I think what happened

[2:43:32] Trustee Patrick: when we were looking at this last time

[2:43:36] Trustee Patrick: was the province had basically only done

[2:43:39] Trustee Patrick: two reviews of the trust area.

[2:43:41] Trustee Patrick: One was in 1972 when it struck a special committee

[2:43:45] Trustee Patrick: to go out and look at the Islands Trust and they came out and they met with people, went through

[2:43:51] Trustee Patrick: all the islands, did their research and ended up with a report. And then in 1987, they did a similar

[2:43:57] Trustee Patrick: thing where they struck a committee to review and make recommendations. So that was the kind of

[2:44:04] Trustee Patrick: thought was that the province would have to strike some form of a committee or task force or

[2:44:10] Trustee Patrick: or, you know, Citizens Assembly, or whatever model that was appropriate to really dig into

[2:44:16] Trustee Patrick: these issues. So I think for each of these items, we can easily list a number of things, and where

[2:44:22] Trustee Patrick: there are solutions, so to speak, we can put them out, like number B, the object of the Islands

[2:44:29] Trustee Patrick: Trust, we can provide what we just did, and what Trust Council approved in September,

[2:44:34] Trustee Patrick: September and explain the issues of still having people in the community that disagree or that

[2:44:42] Trustee Patrick: there isn't clear, ask them to basically concur or whatever that we're looking at. So I don't

[2:44:47] Trustee Patrick: think we have to work the solutions and sell our solutions as here's the solution. Certainly where

[2:44:52] Trustee Patrick: we have them, we should offer them.

[2:44:56] Voice 12: Thank you. Trustee Harris?

[2:44:59] Voice 7: So I'm looking at C, obviously.

[2:45:03] Voice 7: Obviously, it seems to me if everybody's in agreement about the democratic nature, undemocratic nature of the organization as it is now, then that's something that we need to put in the letter, clearly.

[2:45:18] Voice 7: Clearly, Trustee Patrick did just mention being in the object and it's, you know, there's an example of the letter that was received back to the LTC regarding self-sprangling being put into under the umbrella of Bill 44.

[2:45:33] Voice 7: And the letter from the minister quoted the mandate, but didn't seem to recognize that the mandate was the way it had been defined last September.

[2:45:47] Voice 7: So that's a concern clearly.

[2:45:48] Voice 7: So maybe that is something that needs to be put in there.

[2:45:51] Voice 7: But I would say the undemocratic nature

[2:45:55] Voice 7: and if there's something about a certain population

[2:45:58] Voice 7: threshold, I don't know what it is,

[2:46:00] Voice 7: but that's something that needs to be in the letter.

[2:46:04] Voice 7: I'll leave it there.

[2:46:05] Voice 3: Trustee Peterson.

[2:46:10] Voice 9: Thank you, Madam Chair.

[2:46:13] Voice 9: Looking at these, the aid F,

[2:46:17] Voice 9: um i think we have identified some of the issues um again i don't i don't know precisely what the

[2:46:28] Voice 9: uh solutions are for example the executive function or the executive authority was one

[2:46:34] Voice 9: thing that uh trustee bernardo brought up earlier talked about the representation um

[2:46:41] Voice 9: um population imbalance um certainly i think we have we have done our go at section three but we

[2:46:53] Voice 9: haven't heard from the province i think that when we go to um alignment of decision making process

[2:47:01] Voice 9: processes uh with the declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples act um one thing that's

[2:47:09] Voice 9: that we're hearing is that there is a desire from First Nations

[2:47:16] Voice 9: to be more involved or to do co-governance.

[2:47:21] Voice 9: And again, that is something that's clearly within the province's bailiwick

[2:47:27] Voice 9: to enable or not to enable.

[2:47:31] Voice 9: So that one is obvious that if the province is going to consider

[2:47:40] Voice 9: consider co-governance models, that would be good to know.

[2:47:46] Voice 9: And if not, that would also be good to know

[2:47:48] Voice 9: because we need to be able to have those clear conversations

[2:47:52] Voice 9: with First Nations that are interested in that.

[2:47:54] Voice 9: We only have the jurisdiction and powers

[2:47:58] Voice 9: that we are given by the province.

[2:48:01] Voice 9: In terms of the geographic scope

[2:48:03] Voice 9: and particularly the authority on marine areas,

[2:48:06] Voice 9: as big problems as were brought up in the recent CRD workshop there

[2:48:15] Voice 9: about the overlapping jurisdictions.

[2:48:17] Voice 9: We have four jurisdictions of which we are the junior

[2:48:21] Voice 9: that have levels of jurisdiction over the marine areas.

[2:48:28] Voice 9: So again, I don't have strong solutions to propose,

[2:48:38] Voice 9: But I do think that this putting some more work, I know we're, I don't think we're going to solve any of this today. But I think that for each of us to put our minds to that list of A to F in preparation for our next go around, this is probably a good way to prioritize our thinking in terms of enumerating problems and possible solutions or suggestions.

[2:49:09] Voice 9: thank you

[2:49:12] Trustee Luckham: trustee luckham yeah i'm gonna follow on the good words of trustee peterson here and

[2:49:22] Trustee Luckham: that um we there needs to be a much more fulsome conversation than what i think is probably the

[2:49:29] Trustee Luckham: time available today which looks to me like less than 10 minutes but um um where there's some

[2:49:38] Trustee Luckham: some materials for us to digest, Trustee Bernardo's suggestions, Trustee Harris' suggestions,

[2:49:45] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Patrick's suggestions, more than this motion here, which is certainly a good start.

[2:49:54] Trustee Luckham: And then, of course, one has to be careful about the question and how things are

[2:50:04] Trustee Luckham: created. In fact, the straw poll question that you just conducted a moment ago,

[2:50:11] Trustee Luckham: sure we may or may not be concerned about the democracy of the organization. I don't know that

[2:50:18] Trustee Luckham: I necessarily think that I'm concerned about the undemocracy of the situation, which is how that

[2:50:23] Trustee Luckham: has immediately been spun. There is definitely an issue with representation and land mass.

[2:50:33] Trustee Luckham: Just because there's a small population doesn't mean that the land associated with it isn't large

[2:50:39] Trustee Luckham: Or vice versa. 168-lot islands, actually, are tiny, have also disproportionate electoral capabilities. So I think we need to drill into this stuff in a structured way, get the ideas on the table, and have a conversation around them.

[2:51:01] Trustee Luckham: Indeed, as was sort of stated right at the beginning, is to have a solid business case, for want of a better word, but articulated story about where the deficiencies are and how there needs to be improvement.

[2:51:20] Trustee Luckham: And then we need to figure out when we're actually going to stage this, because, of course, we're about to see a transition to government and there'll be different ministers and there'll be different agendas and different objectives.

[2:51:30] Trustee Luckham: and but we need to be prepared for the time when it's our opportunity to take a floor

[2:51:36] Trustee Luckham: and ask the hard questions all

[2:51:40] Voice 12: right i lost track of the time so we do only have 10 minutes and

[2:51:44] Voice 12: we've got a couple of other items on the agenda uh i'm going to go to cao and i see trustee patrick

[2:51:50] Voice 12: and bernardo uh with your hands up again you've spoken a couple of times so um we need to keep it

[2:51:56] Voice 12: brief and I'm going to make some suggestions

[2:51:59] Voice 12: for follow up. Hudson Pillar

[2:52:03] Voice 12: Madam Chair

[2:52:05] Voice 4: you know

[2:52:08] Voice 4: take this as some advice

[2:52:10] Voice 4: I think that what you're

[2:52:13] Voice 4: you've got a deep and profound

[2:52:15] Voice 4: set of questions that you're asking

[2:52:16] Voice 4: and that you are needing to

[2:52:18] Voice 4: nurture through to Trust Council

[2:52:20] Voice 4: you may want to communicate to

[2:52:22] Voice 4: Trust Council that that is the case

[2:52:24] Voice 4: and that they need

[2:52:25] Voice 4: this is some work that needs to be done

[2:52:28] Voice 4: and it's probably

[2:52:30] Voice 4: can't be solely on your shoulders i mean any one of these is a two-hour discussion potentially or

[2:52:35] Voice 4: not um so you might want to just update trust council to say the first version of this letter

[2:52:43] Voice 4: left it to the province to figure all the solutions out and and it didn't identify the

[2:52:50] Voice 4: problems or any of the solutions it asked the province to do both from first reading and you're

[2:52:57] Voice 4: wandering into being more specific of what those things are um so i would communicate that back to

[2:53:05] Voice 4: them if and then just more globally if you're going to move this dial you're either going to

[2:53:10] Voice 4: have the large p political ability to to to get some of these things through or have to have great

[2:53:16] Voice 4: arguments one of those two things um to get the attention of the the minister and and and so forth

[2:53:27] Voice 4: So there would be some strategy associated with that, I would think.

[2:53:31] Voice 12: I don't even know how many of the people in the province have property on the Gulf Islands.

[2:53:37] Voice 12: That would be interesting.

[2:53:39] Voice 12: All right.

[2:53:39] Voice 12: Where do we, in terms of drilling into this in a structured way, and, okay, so Trustee Peterson is just saying that his connection's unstable.

[2:53:55] Voice 12: We need to do further work on each of these.

[2:53:57] Voice 12: So I would like suggestions from you in terms of the structured way that we can get into this, whether we break it down into each one and divide it up so that we put individual or small group thinking hats on to the extent of both the problems and the solutions.

[2:54:17] Voice 12: or if we report out to Trust Council that we're starting to get into this

[2:54:24] Voice 12: and it's very complicated and we want and need their input on some of these

[2:54:30] Voice 12: and hope to get some feedback, or how would you like to do next?

[2:54:36] Voice 12: What do you want to do for next steps?

[2:54:38] Voice 12: Joe Bernardo.

[2:54:41] Voice 8: I think the CEO's suggestion that it would be wise to keep Trust Council informed

[2:54:49] Voice 8: foreign vote what our thinking is and the direction that we're going in and uh the to identify the

[2:54:58] Voice 8: scope of what we what we're uh getting into because he's quite right it's enormous i i think we can do

[2:55:04] Voice 8: that at the same i mean it's not a sequential thing i mean we can that's an easy enough thing

[2:55:09] Voice 8: to do like and we can do that briefly at the next trust council meeting or if you do it by way of

[2:55:13] Voice 8: of email but that shouldn't get in the way of us actually doing this work and i my suggestion is

[2:55:21] Voice 8: that um everybody in this committee uh look you know there seems to be a consensus that

[2:55:28] Voice 8: these items a to f more or less cover the waterfront but we can revisit that if we have

[2:55:35] Voice 8: to later but my suggestion is that everybody in this committee identify for themselves the ones

[2:55:40] Voice 8: that they they think they've got something useful to say about it and prepare a little memo uh uh

[2:55:47] Voice 8: that everybody has ready before the july meeting and they submit it to the group and then we've got

[2:55:53] Voice 8: something to work with here instead of just you know orally discussing these things with one thing

[2:55:59] Voice 8: having to write down your ideas and figuring out the logic and rationality of the stuff i mean

[2:56:05] Voice 8: I mean, things get a lot clearer when you're forced to write them down.

[2:56:08] Voice 8: And I think that's a way for us to start doing thinking.

[2:56:11] Voice 8: People don't have to work on everything.

[2:56:14] Voice 8: They can work on the items they care about or that they think they have something useful to say.

[2:56:18] Voice 8: But if we then have that work product from everybody, then we've got something to work with as a group in July.

[2:56:25] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:56:26] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Luckham?

[2:56:28] Trustee Luckham: I agree with Joe.

[2:56:31] Trustee Luckham: Just out loud, I'll say that.

[2:56:33] Trustee Luckham: We've got eight sections here.

[2:56:35] Trustee Luckham: here, let's have two-hour conversations about each one of these. Let's submit our thoughts in

[2:56:39] Trustee Luckham: advance, and then let's hash it out. And be prepared that if you're not wanting to chime

[2:56:45] Trustee Luckham: in on one conversation, those people that are in on that conversation are going to lead the way.

[2:56:51] Trustee Luckham: And so be thoughtful about what areas that you want to be engaged in. But it does strike me

[2:56:59] Trustee Luckham: me that uh eight two-hour sessions would get us way further along the road than we presently are

[2:57:05] Trustee Luckham: thank you all right we'll um we'll

[2:57:10] Voice 12: have a follow-up uh in terms of um getting your ideas

[2:57:16] Voice 12: about which one you want to work on and um what the expectations are in terms of both identifying

[2:57:22] Voice 12: identifying the problem and possible solutions.

[2:57:27] Voice 12: How's that?

[2:57:29] Trustee Luckham: So do you want to take,

[2:57:30] Trustee Luckham: or somebody wants to take a lead on soliciting that input

[2:57:34] Trustee Luckham: and correlating it and then advising council

[2:57:38] Trustee Luckham: could just be a reporting out from the governance chair

[2:57:41] Trustee Luckham: at council and just tossing that out

[2:57:45] Trustee Luckham: because that was the other suggestion from Joe

[2:57:46] Trustee Luckham: and from the CEO.

[2:57:48] Voice 12: I'll do that.

[2:57:48] Voice 12: I'll follow up and I'll get feedback from each of you

[2:57:52] Voice 12: and I'll report out on all of this to council.

[2:57:58] Voice 12: I'm going to leave it there.

[2:57:59] Voice 12: I will follow up.

[2:58:02] Voice 12: So what's left on our agenda is other business, 8.1, the annual report.

[2:58:11] Voice 12: Has everybody had a chance to read that in terms of what was going out to council?

[2:58:22] Voice 12: I can't find it.

[2:58:24] Voice 12: What page is that?

[2:58:26] Voice 12: um hey 42

[2:58:28] Voice 10: 42 yeah 42 just bringing that

[2:58:30] Voice 12: up thank you okay so the actual um report was on 44

[2:58:43] Voice 12: um collaboration with a three-member working group from the financial planning committee

[2:58:49] Voice 12: on a draft corporate plan um and a few more words reported to council on its review of trust

[2:58:55] Voice 12: mandate in section three advice on the visioning exercise held by trust council and continues its

[2:59:02] Voice 12: priority work according to its matrix um seems like we did a whole lot more but i think a lot

[2:59:07] Voice 12: of that was in closed meetings um is there anything that we can add this is going into

[2:59:16] Voice 12: the annual report trustee

[2:59:20] Trustee Luckham: luckham it strikes me that you know this annual report is going

[2:59:26] Trustee Luckham: to the provincial government and is a document that some may read and um therefore i think that

[2:59:34] Trustee Luckham: that it is worthy of flagging in this statement that there is an ongoing question about the

[2:59:44] Trustee Luckham: provincial, a provincial review of the Islands Trust and that the work is being undertaken

[2:59:49] Trustee Luckham: by the Governance Committee to formulate questions and ask or something around that idea to just

[2:59:57] Trustee Luckham: Just keep that on the radar.

[3:00:00] Trustee Luckham: this is a good place for that but i might be wrong that's my opinion got

[3:00:10] Voice 12: one thumb up

[3:00:11] Voice 12: anybody else all right what's the deadline on this uh russ day

[3:00:23] Voice 12: sorry may like now it's

[3:00:27] Voice 4: pretty now

[3:00:29] Trustee Luckham: yep not your next meeting for sure this

[3:00:34] Voice 10: will come on the

[3:00:35] Voice 10: June 5th executive committee meeting for forwarding to trust council's approval in the

[3:00:40] Voice 10: June meeting thank

[3:00:41] Voice 12: you okay so we have until the June 5th executive I'd like you to put your

[3:00:48] Voice 12: thinking caps on first and foremost in terms of what we could add without breaking the the

[3:00:54] Voice 12: privacy of the closed meetings and with respect to our ongoing conversations and all the work we

[3:01:02] Voice 12: did today for instance um so if there's revisions to that and additions um then we'll have a request

[3:01:09] Voice 12: for a decision uh let's make a deadline for may the 30th and we'll have a request for decision

[3:01:16] Voice 12: in terms of what goes to um the executive committee that work no russ has got his hand up

[3:01:23] Voice 4: so madam chair um ec's run into this kind of thing in the past you could take submissions

[3:01:31] Voice 4: from all the members of the committee and then make the and they could task you with making those

[3:01:37] Voice 4: changes to the document to generate an rfd oh you would you would have to have um some sort of

[3:01:46] Voice 4: okay um

[3:01:47] Voice 4: rwm and for sure someone's going to say something about i don't like that word or i don't

[3:01:53] Voice 4: like this word because that's the nature of editing together and you would then be outside

[3:01:58] Voice 4: side of an rwm and have to have a special meeting to do this i

[3:02:01] Voice 12: got two hands up

[3:02:02] Voice 9: trustee peterson

[3:02:03] Voice 9: i just want to concur with the notion that it's i think it's worth putting

[3:02:09] Voice 9: that uh something around the governance committee is considering uh the legislative request of the

[3:02:16] Voice 9: province and also considering uh the financial aspect because i think that's that it's been on

[3:02:24] Voice 9: on our radar there's no reason we shouldn't make sure it's on their radar so i think both of those

[3:02:30] Voice 9: things are worthy of including in the report because that is part of what we're doing

[3:02:35] Voice 3: director marler yeah

[3:02:37] Voice 1: i just wanted to remind you it's an annual report for the last fiscal

[3:02:40] Voice 1: so it's the work you've done to the end of march 31st 2024 so having said that if you've got

[3:02:47] Voice 1: something that's continuing i think it's okay to say that but you don't want to be reporting on

[3:02:52] Voice 1: or anything new that you've started since April 1st.

[3:02:55] Voice 12: Okay.

[3:02:56] Voice 12: All right.

[3:03:00] Voice 12: Suggestions to me.

[3:03:02] Voice 12: Can I get agreement from this committee to delegate any additions

[3:03:08] Voice 12: to the annual report statement that goes to the executive for their approval?

[3:03:18] Voice 12: Do we need a motion to that effect, or are we just agreement?

[3:03:24] Trustee Luckham: It's always a good idea to have a motion.

[3:03:26] Trustee Luckham: Okay,

[3:03:28] Voice 12: I move that the Governance Committee delegate any amendments to the report of the Governance Committee for the annual report to me to be sent to the Executive Committee no later than, give me a date.

[3:03:46] Voice 12: When's your next meeting?

[3:03:49] Voice 4: Let's go May 31st.

[3:03:52] Voice 12: Okay, no later than May 31st.

[3:03:56] Voice 12: I love giving myself homework.

[3:03:59] Voice 12: Can I get a seconder?

[3:04:03] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson, thank you.

[3:04:06] Voice 12: Any more discussion?

[3:04:09] Voice 12: Let's have a vote.

[3:04:11] Voice 12: All those in favor?

[3:04:16] Voice 12: Thank you, hands down.

[3:04:18] Voice 12: Any opposed?

[3:04:19] Voice 12: All right, thank you.

[3:04:26] Voice 12: All right, so last item is a new business item,

[3:04:32] Voice 12: voting on the policy statement.

[3:04:35] Voice 12: And the issue that you raised earlier, Joe,

[3:04:39] Voice 12: can that be raised at the Committee of the Whole

[3:04:42] Voice 12: when we're talking about the policy statement?

[3:04:45] Voice 12: Or do you need to have some general discussion

[3:04:48] Voice 12: by this committee to support that?

[3:04:51] Voice 12: I think the process is going to be longer

[3:04:53] Voice 12: than just having everything.

[3:04:56] Voice 8: Yeah, my hope was that,

[3:05:01] Voice 8: it's the same point I made before

[3:05:03] Voice 8: about the representation challenge

[3:05:05] Voice 8: of the Trust Council,

[3:05:07] Voice 8: but it becomes very specific

[3:05:09] Voice 8: when you're dealing with a trust policy statement.

[3:05:11] Voice 8: I would have preferred to have this committee basically make a recommendation that at least 50 plus percent of the population needs or like representatives of at least 50 plus percent of the population ought to be in favor of whatever version of the trust policy statement eventually gets approved.

[3:05:37] Voice 8: approved um it doesn't strike me as a particularly i mean because i've convinced myself it doesn't

[3:05:44] Voice 8: strike me as a particularly complicated thing to to agree to but i mean we've run out of time here

[3:05:49] Voice 8: so yeah whether the committee endorses or not i will make that point at at um committee of the

[3:05:55] Voice 8: whole i just thought that it would be uh more likely to get

[3:06:00] Voice 8: some traction if they came from

[3:06:01] Voice 8: the committee all

[3:06:03] Voice 12: right well i think it's fair to say that it you know it's something that we'd

[3:06:06] Voice 12: be interested in discussing what we ran out of time at this meeting, but there will be time in

[3:06:11] Voice 12: the future before we finally get to a vote, I would think. Or we can raise it as a flag that

[3:06:17] Voice 12: it shouldn't go to vote until we've got that sorted. All right. We have not dealt with the

[3:06:24] Voice 12: matrix. I don't think that that is critical at this point. We've got enough on our plates. I'm

[3:06:30] Voice 12: going to um hold that review off and um so that's right

[3:06:37] Voice 1: yes sorry and trustee peterson had his hand

[3:06:41] Voice 1: up and said i just for i had a comment on that last night sorry

[3:06:44] Voice 6: didn't

[3:06:45] Voice 1: see that sorry yeah i was

[3:06:48] Voice 9: i was just wanting to um check in with staff whether our motion to delegate the annual report

[3:06:57] Voice 9: item to the chair committee chair is sufficient direction for staff um i don't know if we wanted

[3:07:06] Voice 9: to if they want a resolution that um that covers that because we didn't actually approve anything

[3:07:14] Voice 9: uh for the report itself i'm

[3:07:19] Voice 4: pretty clear madam chair i think okay

[3:07:22] Voice 12: sorry i'm gonna mute myself

[3:07:24] Voice 12: So I've got a yappy dog.

[3:07:28] Voice 9: Fair enough then, thank you.

[3:07:32] Voice 1: All right, David.

[3:07:35] Voice 1: Yeah, I just thought I'd offer this,

[3:07:38] Voice 1: maybe it could save you some time.

[3:07:40] Voice 1: So in the legislation,

[3:07:42] Voice 1: there is no provision for weighted voting

[3:07:46] Voice 1: at the Islands Trust.

[3:07:47] Voice 1: Under the legislation,

[3:07:49] Voice 1: all of your bylaws are adopted the same way.

[3:07:52] Voice 1: So it's a simple majority of those in the meeting.

[3:07:56] Voice 1: so it's 51% of whoever happens to be there

[3:08:00] Voice 1: as long as you have quorum

[3:08:02] Voice 1: there's only a couple of bylaws

[3:08:06] Voice 1: delegation bylaws that have a two-third vote

[3:08:08] Voice 1: but beyond that, that's it

[3:08:10] Voice 1: so if you want voting by population

[3:08:14] Voice 1: that would be a legislative change

[3:08:18] Voice 1: so I was going to offer that

[3:08:20] Voice 1: because it's not something that's going to be a quick fix

[3:08:24] Voice 1: that would be years of work at the BC legislature

[3:08:27] Voice 1: if

[3:08:29] Voice 8: i may chair yes

[3:08:32] Voice 12: i

[3:08:33] Voice 8: i fully appreciate that's a case and i've understood that from the start

[3:08:36] Voice 8: that that's not how we do votes what i'm talking about basically is not obliging trust council to

[3:08:45] Voice 8: do this that not setting up a rule but basically reaching a moral consensus that that's how we

[3:08:51] Voice 8: ought to do it with the trust policy statement you know it's uh

[3:08:57] Voice 6: if

[3:08:58] Voice 8: we get a big enough consensus

[3:08:59] Voice 8: and people agree that that's a destination we should get to

[3:09:02] Voice 8: when we pass the trust policy statement, that's enough.

[3:09:07] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Lutton?

[3:09:09] Trustee Luckham: On that note, I would just like to say that if we can't get a vast majority

[3:09:15] Trustee Luckham: of support for the policy statement, we would have to question ourselves

[3:09:18] Trustee Luckham: why we would be advancing it.

[3:09:21] Trustee Luckham: If we don't have, and I would say that, you know, on serious matters,

[3:09:25] Trustee Luckham: There's a 70% or 75% majority is required.

[3:09:29] Trustee Luckham: I would like to see as much as we can get.

[3:09:33] Trustee Luckham: We won't get consensus, I don't imagine.

[3:09:35] Trustee Luckham: Maybe we will.

[3:09:36] Trustee Luckham: But I think we need to be clear that the majority of council would support something.

[3:09:41] Trustee Luckham: And we have to keep having the conversation until we get there.

[3:09:45] Trustee Luckham: So I definitely support the notion of this needs to advance in a strong, positive way.

[3:09:53] Voice 7: Trustee Harris?

[3:09:54] Voice 7: What Trustee Bernardo was suggesting with the 50% of the population being in favor of the policy statement is very important.

[3:10:05] Voice 7: I'm behind that 100%.

[3:10:06] Voice 7: All right.

[3:10:10] Voice 12: Any other discussion?

[3:10:15] Voice 12: Any other items other than next meeting is scheduled electronically July the 12th at 9 a.m.?

[3:10:23] Voice 12: Trustee Harris?

[3:10:26] Voice 7: i'm on i'm just unclear on what what we came up with regarding the consultants of the governance

[3:10:31] Voice 7: review there can be a recap on that thank you madam

[3:10:35] Voice 4: chair i have to excuse myself thank you

[3:10:37] Voice 4: very much all

[3:10:38] Voice 12: right thank you okay thank you

[3:10:39] Voice 12: we did not um decide on that we did not discuss it

[3:10:47] Voice 12: we talked about the um question and the referral to the province so it's left up in the air

[3:10:57] Voice 12: there trustee peterson yeah

[3:11:05] Voice 9: just uh on that item i think that um what i heard back from the cao and

[3:11:12] Voice 9: from the chair of this committee is that the consultants want some specifics about what it

[3:11:18] Voice 9: is we want to hear from them and uh i think it my position is until we um as as a committee

[3:11:26] Voice 9: generate some of those specifics that it should be on hold until maybe we don't waste their time

[3:11:31] Voice 9: or our money and I'm not at all against meeting with the consultants but that was the message

[3:11:38] Voice 9: back so let's get some specifics together and then we can advance it

[3:11:43] Voice 12: trustee Bernardo my suggestion

[3:11:46] Voice 8: is uh as I've pointed out before and others have pointed out these are separate items but

[3:11:51] Voice 8: um it's you know we can do things in parallel we can chew gum and walk at the same time

[3:11:56] Voice 8: my suggestion is we add that as a separate item on the agenda for the next regularly scheduled

[3:12:02] Voice 8: meeting uh and that we set aside some time at that meeting for the nuts and bolts work of uh

[3:12:11] Voice 8: starting to develop some questions we're not likely to get them all done at that meeting but

[3:12:16] Voice 8: we need to get started on it so we might as well start it you know i always get nervous and like

[3:12:21] Voice 8: let's put things on hold yeah well this organization specializes in putting things on

[3:12:25] Voice 8: to hold let's just get to work so let's add it to the agenda do some work on it next meeting

[3:12:30] Voice 8: see how far we get keep at it until we get it done and then we'll have our list of questions

[3:12:35] Voice 8: and we can go in that direction over there and at the same time we need to work on the letter

[3:12:39] Voice 8: to the province we can do both things at the same time all

[3:12:43] Voice 12: right i'm open to any suggestions for

[3:12:45] Voice 12: specific questions not beyond why they wrote it trustee peterson yeah

[3:12:52] Voice 9: um i personally as i say i'm

[3:12:55] Voice 9: I'm not opposed to meeting with the consultants at all.

[3:12:58] Voice 9: I'm not one of the people that have made the strong push for it.

[3:13:02] Voice 9: So I actually don't have those specifics myself,

[3:13:05] Voice 9: but I would strongly encourage anyone that does want to forward that meeting

[3:13:10] Voice 9: with the consultants to develop those questions in advance of our next meeting

[3:13:15] Voice 9: so that we can have a go at it.

[3:13:19] Voice 12: I agree. Thank you.

[3:13:20] Voice 9: All right.

[3:13:23] Voice 12: Motion to adjourn.

[3:13:26] Voice 12: Trustee Peterson.

[3:13:28] Voice 12: I'll second that.

[3:13:29] Voice 12: all those in favor oh okay thank you all i got some more bye everyone bye bye thanks thanks bye

Governance Committee 
Minutes of a Regular Meeting 
May 13, 2024 ADOPTED Page 1 of 5 
 
Governance Committee 
Minutes of Meeting 
 
Date:  
Location:  
May 13, 2024 
Electronic Zoom Meeting 
 
Members Present: Judith Gedye, Chair, Bowen Island Municipal Trustee 
 Jamie Harris, Vice-Chair, Salt Spring Island Trustee 
 Joe Bernardo, Gambier Island Trustee 
 Laura Patrick, Salt Spring Island Trustee 
 Timothy Peterson, Lasqueti Island Trustee,  
 Kate-Louise Stamford, Gambier Island Trustee 
Peter Luckham, Thetis Island Trustee &Trust Council Chair (ex-officio) 
Lisa Gauvreau, Galiano Island Trustee, Islands Trust Conservancy (ex-officio) 
  
Regrets: Lee Middleton, Saturna Island Trustee 
  
Staff Present: Russ Hotsenpiller, Chief Administrative Officer (CAO) 
David Marlor, Director, Legislative Services (DLS) 
Lori Foster, Executive Assistant/Recorder 
  
Members of the 
Public Present: 
There was one member of the public in attendance. 
1. CALL TO ORDER 
At 9:00 a.m., Chair Gedye called the meeting to order and provided a land acknowledgement 
that the meeting was being held on Coast Salish traditional and treaty territory. 
2. AGENDA 
2.1 New Items and Re-Ordering of the Agenda 
For consideration to add the following at: 
9.1 Discuss the possibility of a Governance Committee recommendation to Trust 
 Council regarding a voting threshold for the Islands Trust Policy Statement  
2.2 Approval of Agenda 
GC-2024-013 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the agenda be approved as amended. 
CARRIED 
3. PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD - None 

Governance Committee 
Minutes of a Regular Meeting 
May 13, 2024 ADOPTED Page 2 of 5 
4. DELEGATIONS - None 
5. CORRESPONDENCE 
Discussion ensued regarding Executive Committee’s May 15, 2024, agenda item 10.5 
correspondence 2024-05-02 K. Langereis re: Islands Trust concerns about Section 3.   
Governance Committee discussed adding the correspondence to its next business meeting 
agenda. 
6. ADMINISTRATIVE COORDINATION 
6.1 Governance Committee February 23, 2024 meeting minutes  
Comments were heard that the Roman numeral point form used in a resolution was not 
best practice. 
By general consent the minutes were adopted as presented. 
6.2 Follow up Action List 
For information. 
6.3 Resolutions Without Meeting - None 
7. BUSINESS - WORK PROGRAM ITEMS 
7.1 Ex officio – Briefing 
DLS Marlor spoke to the briefing as presented and addressed the history of ex officio 
appointments to committees within Islands Trust.   
It was noted that Trustee Boland wishes to bring a request for decision regarding ex 
officio roles on committees to June Trust Council. 
GC-2024-014 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the Governance Committee ask Trust Council to clarify the role of the 
Islands Trust Conservancy representative on the Governance Committee. 
 
GC-2024-015 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that motion GC-2024-014 be amended by changing the “period” to a “comma” 
adding “and that the May 6, 2024, briefing “Ex officio” be added to Governance 
Committee’s request to Trust Council”. 
CARRIED 
 
Chair Gedye called the question on motion GC-2024-014 as amended. 
 
 
 
 

Governance Committee 
Minutes of a Regular Meeting 
May 13, 2024 ADOPTED Page 3 of 5 
 
 
GC-2024-014 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
that the Governance Committee ask Trust Council to clarify the role of the 
Islands Trust Conservancy representative on the Governance Committee and 
that the May 6, 2024, briefing “Ex officio” be added to Governance Committee’s 
request to Trust Council. 
CARRIED 
 
7.2 Draft Code of Conduct Update – Briefing 
DLS Marlor spoke to the briefing as presented.   
Discussion ensued on next steps the Committee wished to take to address the draft 
Code of Conduct. 
Chair Gedye commented that this item to be added to the work program matrix as 
urgent and important/high priority. 
GC-2024-016 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
That Governance Committee schedule a Special Meeting at the earliest possible 
convenience to discuss and work on the Code of Conduct draft policy. 
CARRIED 
The meeting recessed for a break at 10:38 a.m., and reconvened at 10:48 a.m. 
7.3 Update on the Corporate Planning Process – Briefing 
CAO Hotsenpiller spoke to the briefing and noted the following: 
 The draft corporate plan process remains with the sub-working group and the draft 
strategic plan process is under Executive Committee’s purview.   
 June’s Trust Council meeting will continue with the development of a strategic plan. 
 Every Governance Committee meeting should include an update on the sub-working 
group’s progress. 
7.4 Update on Project to Request Ministerial Changes with regards to Islands Trust – 
Briefing 
CAO Hotsenpiller introduced the briefing. 
Discussion ensued on the following: 
 There should be a clear distinction between work on the March 2022 Governance 
Review Report, and a request to the Province for a review and changes. 
 Development of a structured process for the Committee to address what legislative 
changes to consider. 
 Committee members to bring discussion points regarding what legislative changes 
they wish the Province to make. 

Governance Committee 
Minutes of a Regular Meeting 
May 13, 2024 ADOPTED Page 4 of 5 
 Detailed consideration of resolution TC-2022-072, items a. through f. and whether 
those requests still apply: 
a. An assessment of the optimum governance model to preserve and protect the 
Trust area pursuant to the Province's vision for the future of the Trust area. 
b. The object of the Islands Trust Act and clarification of the mandate of the 
organization. 
c. The governance structure of the organization. 
d. The alignment of decision-making processes and structures with the Declaration 
on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act. 
e. The geographic scope of the organization and in particular authority over 
marine areas. 
f. The funding mechanisms provided to the organization in light of a clarified 
mandate. 
 The democratic principle of representation by population. 
 Governance Committee Chair to update Trust Council at its June/September 
meeting regarding its next steps to address this work item. 
 Discussion followed that, in addition, for the July 12, 2024, Governance Committee 
meeting, members come prepared with any specific questions to ask the 
consultants of the Governance Review report.  
 
Trustee Gauvreau left the meeting at 11:56. a.m. 
8. BUSINESS - OTHER 
8.1 2023/24 Annual Report Approval of Governance Committee Section - RFD 
The Governance Committee reviewed the request for decision.   
Discussion to add to the draft text for inclusion in the Annual Report (Attachment 1. 
Page 44 of the agenda package) under the 2023-24 Highlights, a bullet to describe the 
following: 
 The Governance Committee continues work regarding a Provincial Review 
request on the legislative and governance structure of the Islands Trust.  
 
GC-2024-017 
It was Moved and Seconded, 
That the Governance Committee delegate any amendments to Chair Gedye for 
revisions to the Annual Report text as presented, for Executive Committee’s 
approval to Trust Council by May 28, 2024. 
CARRIED 
9. BUSINESS – NEW 
9.1 Discuss the possibility of a Governance Committee recommendation to Trust Council 
 regarding a voting threshold for the Islands Trust Policy Statement 
Discussion followed that, this issue may be considered at the Committee of the Whole 
meeting being held May 30, 2024. 
10. MATRIX WORK PROGRAM 

Governance Committee 
Minutes of a Regular Meeting 
May 13, 2024 ADOPTED Page 5 of 5 
Received as presented. 
11. NEXT MEETING 
The next Governance Committee meeting is scheduled to be held electronically July 12, 2024, 
beginning at 9:00 AM. 
12. CLOSED MEETING - None 
13. RISE AND REPORT - None 
14. ADJOURNMENT 
GC-2024-018 
It was MOVED and SECONDED, 
That the Governance Committee meeting be adjourned at 12:13 p.m. 
 
CARRIED 
 
 
_________________________ 
Judith Gedye, Chair 
 
Certified Correct 
 
_________________________ 
Lori Foster, Recorder