Islands Trust Council regular meeting, May 30, 2024

[0:00:02] Trustee Luckham: All right, looks like we're going. So let's begin. So good morning, everyone.

[0:00:09] Trustee Luckham: Welcome to Committee of the Whole. This is a new experience for us all. And I'm really

[0:00:16] Trustee Luckham: grateful that we've had the policy changes to facilitate this. And we're having this

[0:00:21] Trustee Luckham: conversation today about a singularly important topic, the policy statement.

[0:00:26] Trustee Luckham: So my name is Peter Luck. I'm elected on Thetis Island, and that trust area is in the territories of the Penelope and Alaskan nations, and I'm grateful to live and work here and have the honor to do this work that we're here to do today.

[0:00:44] Trustee Luckham: day. I'm going to just go around the room with introductions to allow the members of the public

[0:00:50] Trustee Luckham: to know who's joined us today. And then we'll dig into this as quickly as we can. And so I'm just

[0:00:58] Trustee Luckham: going to use my participants list here. And the practice has been if you rename yourself to

[0:01:08] Trustee Luckham: trustee, then that enables filtering on the participants list. So I'm going to start at

[0:01:15] Trustee Luckham: the top of my list with Trustee Evans. Your hand is up. Go ahead.

[0:01:22] Voice 16: So I just have a quick question

[0:01:23] Voice 16: on process. I thought we initiated the meeting as a trust committee meeting, a trust council meeting,

[0:01:30] Voice 16: and then we moved to go into committee of the whole. Is that not the case?

[0:01:36] Trustee Luckham: That is not the case. And I've been advised again on that this morning, that there was some misunderstanding in the process. We will be going into a Trust Council meeting proper at one o'clock today to have a special electronic meeting. Is that correct, David Marlowe, Legislative Services Manager?

[0:01:56] Voice 9: Yeah, that is correct. The resolution of Trust Council for this meeting was to call the Committee of the Whole meeting, so you've gone directly into Committee of the Whole, and that's totally fine.

[0:02:07] Trustee Luckham: Right, and I'll call the meeting to order and approve the agenda just after introductions.

[0:02:12] Trustee Luckham: So why don't you start? Oh, well, you've dropped off the list now to somewhere else on the list, so I'm just going to go with my list that I have for introductions.

[0:02:20] Trustee Luckham: Just say good morning and the island that you're from. Trustee Allen.

[0:02:22] Trustee Luckham: Hi.

[0:02:25] Trustee Allen: Good morning. I'm elected trustee on Burnby Island, the land of the unceded traditional

[0:02:30] Trustee Allen: territory of the Comox First Nations and other Coast Salish peoples.

[0:02:35] Trustee Allen: Trustee Fast.

[0:02:37] Trustee Fast: Good morning. Sue Ellen here. Sue Ellen Fast from Nuklelequem,

[0:02:42] Trustee Fast: which is Bowen Island over in Alketsam House Sound, Squamish Nation.

[0:02:47] Trustee Luckham: Good. Trustee Scott.

[0:02:49] Trustee Luckham: Thank

[0:02:51] Voice 13: you, elected official on Burnby Island and Comox and Nalaka people.

[0:02:58] Voice 13: Thank you.

[0:03:00] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Maude.

[0:03:02] Voice 8: Thank you, Chair.

[0:03:04] Voice 8: I'm David Maude from Maine Island, a traditional home of the Masonic people.

[0:03:09] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Stamford.

[0:03:11] Trustee Stamford: Good morning, everyone.

[0:03:13] Trustee Stamford: Kate Stamford calling in from Ta'altnawetch in Alcotsam, otherwise known as Gambier Island.

[0:03:20] Trustee Stamford: Happy to be here.

[0:03:22] Voice 29: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:03:30] Trustee Luckham: I'm muted, sir.

[0:03:32] Voice 6: Right. Oh, sorry about that. Right. I'm from Keats Island,

[0:03:36] Voice 6: also known as Lactine in the language of the Squamish people and whose traditional lands

[0:03:40] Voice 6: a good part of the Gambier local trust area occupies. Thank you.

[0:03:48] Voice 6: All right. Trustee Dodds.

[0:03:51] Voice 12: Janine Dodds, Maine Island, traditional territory of the Hispanic people and

[0:03:56] Voice 12: reserve lands of the sarda thank

[0:03:59] Voice 29: you trustee

[0:04:00] Trustee Luckham: borthwick uh

[0:04:04] Voice 32: yes i'm trustee borthwick uh

[0:04:06] Voice 32: elected on denman island uh traditional territories of the penlatch and comox first nations

[0:04:15] Trustee Luckham: trustee evans good

[0:04:19] Voice 16: morning this is uh chair christina evans from sedea south pender

[0:04:24] Voice 16: and territory of many of the Coast Salish nations.

[0:04:30] Voice 29: Trustee Falk?

[0:04:34] Voice 4: Dag Falk, South Bender.

[0:04:38] Voice 29: Trustee Gavreau?

[0:04:42] Voice 23: Good morning, everyone. I'm Lisa Gavreau, Trustee for Galliano Island,

[0:04:47] Voice 23: ancestral territory of the Pinolegette Tribe. Thank you.

[0:04:51] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Graham?

[0:04:54] Voice 27: Good morning, everyone, from Sunny Denman Island, traditional territory of the Comox.

[0:05:00] Voice 29: Trustee Hunter?

[0:05:02] Voice 27: Good morning. It's Ken Hunter, Cedis Island.

[0:05:06] Voice 29: Trustee Maberly.

[0:05:13] Voice 1: Good morning.

[0:05:15] Voice 3: Ben Maberly, Galliano Island, traditional territory of the Penelagut Nation, Coast Salish peoples of Galliano and the Georgian family.

[0:05:24] Voice 29: Trustee Middleton.

[0:05:29] Trustee Middleton: Good morning. Lee Middleton, Trustee for Saturna Island, traditional territory of the Wausau-Nich peoples.

[0:05:36] Trustee Middleton: Trustee Morrison.

[0:05:37] Voice 29: Arson.

[0:05:40] Voice 14: Elected official on North Pender Island, stay us, uh, home of the Wissanish nations and

[0:05:45] Voice 14: other Salish peoples. Thank you. Trustee,

[0:05:48] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Patrick.

[0:05:51] Trustee Patrick: Hello, Laura Patrick, coming to you from

[0:05:53] Trustee Patrick: Salt Spring Island territories of the St. Joplin and Holcimene, I'm speaking peoples.

[0:06:00] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Peterson.

[0:06:03] Voice 24: Uh, good morning, Tim Peterson, coming to you from Klete, Laskiti Island, um,

[0:06:08] Voice 24: in the lands of many Coast Salish peoples and the treaty territory of the Tlaman Nation.

[0:06:16] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Elliott.

[0:06:20] Voice 21: Hello, good morning, everyone.

[0:06:22] Voice 21: Here on Gabriola Island in the ancestral unceded territory of the Stunamook First Nation.

[0:06:28] Voice 21: Good to be with you all.

[0:06:30] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Yates.

[0:06:34] Voice 11: Good morning, everyone.

[0:06:35] Voice 11: Trustee Yates from the Gabriola Local Trust Area,

[0:06:38] Voice 11: which includes Mudge and DeCourcy Islands.

[0:06:41] Voice 11: Coming to you from Snenemoch First Nation Territory.

[0:06:46] Trustee Luckham: All right, thank you.

[0:06:48] Trustee Luckham: I think that captures everybody that's in attendance.

[0:06:51] Trustee Luckham: I want to provide the regrets

[0:06:52] Trustee Luckham: from Trustee Michaela Lironi from Mesquite.

[0:06:57] Trustee Luckham: And also, unfortunately, at the last minute,

[0:07:00] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Mayreed Boland is also unable to join us today,

[0:07:04] Trustee Luckham: but may attempt to join us from afar today, if she can.

[0:07:10] Trustee Luckham: So I think that captures everybody that's elected,

[0:07:13] Trustee Luckham: unless there's somebody I've missed.

[0:07:15] Trustee Luckham: And shout out now if I've missed you.

[0:07:18] Trustee Luckham: No, you just missed Trustee Harris.

[0:07:20] Trustee Luckham: Oh, okay.

[0:07:21] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Harris, are you there?

[0:07:29] Trustee Luckham: Judy.

[0:07:32] Trustee Luckham: No.

[0:07:33] Trustee Luckham: So, and I don't know that I received regrets.

[0:07:37] Trustee Luckham: Oh, Trustee Getty, I see your hand up.

[0:07:39] Trustee Luckham: I apologize.

[0:07:40] Trustee Luckham: Please.

[0:07:41] Trustee Gedye: No, I was late getting in. Sorry.

[0:07:43] Trustee Gedye: Oh, I see.

[0:07:45] Trustee Gedye: Bowen Island, unceded territory of the Squamish Nation people.

[0:07:51] Trustee Luckham: All right. So I think that covers it then. So I'm just going to do a quick introduction.

[0:07:56] Trustee Luckham: Staff, we've got CEO Russ Hotson-Piller with us today. Good morning, Russ.

[0:07:59] Trustee Luckham: We're in the boardroom there. We've got Director of Trust Area Services, Claire Frader.

[0:08:05] Trustee Luckham: Good morning. Didn't hear anything, but I'm assuming you're there.

[0:08:12] Trustee Luckham: And so we've got Director of Legislative Services Manager, David Marler.

[0:08:18] Voice 9: Hi, good morning.

[0:08:20] Trustee Luckham: We've got Stefan Cermak, Director of Regional Planning.

[0:08:25] Trustee Luckham: Good morning.

[0:08:26] Trustee Luckham: And we've got Tyler Brown, who is going to be our lead for the best part of the day here today in the discussion portion of it.

[0:08:34] Trustee Luckham: So thank you for stepping up, Tyler, when I step back as chair.

[0:08:39] Trustee Luckham: chair. And of course, we've got Alexander Tripanandas in the background there, who's so

[0:08:44] Trustee Luckham: very ably looking after our technology and our minutes and everything else associated with this.

[0:08:50] Trustee Luckham: We wouldn't be able to do this without you. Thank you. So let us then look to the agenda,

[0:08:57] Trustee Luckham: and I'll be wanting to seek approval of the agenda for committee of the whole.

[0:09:02] Trustee Luckham: So I'll just ask, are there any additional items for the agenda? We'll basically be going directly

[0:09:09] Trustee Luckham: to the discussion at 4.11 uh trustee evans hi

[0:09:15] Voice 16: i just had one topic to raise and that was at the

[0:09:19] Voice 16: last trust council meeting there had been discussion about um electing a different chair

[0:09:23] Voice 16: for the committee of the whole meetings and we'd had a discussion of that during that meeting i

[0:09:29] Voice 16: don't see it on here as something to do um and i was just wondering if you could fill us in as to

[0:09:35] Voice 16: to why it's not on the agenda, or if we're, we are going to do it, where are we going to do it?

[0:09:40] Voice 16: Thank you.

[0:09:43] Trustee Luckham: Sure. We discussed it at executive committee and, and without going into the

[0:09:50] Trustee Luckham: details, felt that it was legislatively more appropriate to, for me to step down as chair

[0:10:01] Trustee Luckham: and have the discussion facilitated by another party, and that this would allow all of us,

[0:10:08] Trustee Luckham: myself and everybody else, to participate in the discussion not encumbered with the chair role.

[0:10:15] Trustee Luckham: And I will only come back into that chair role at the end of the meeting, and I'm going to get

[0:10:22] Trustee Luckham: into that detail in a minute, at 12 o'clock, in order to facilitate voting on next steps

[0:10:30] Trustee Luckham: and or recommendations to council but the conversation itself I will not be chairing

[0:10:35] Trustee Luckham: it unless it becomes necessary to alter the direction for some reason but certainly don't

[0:10:41] Trustee Luckham: anticipate that and so that's how we determined was the best way to manage that not wanting to

[0:10:50] Trustee Luckham: not disrespecting council's desire to have an alternate chair but it's not necessarily

[0:10:55] Trustee Luckham: necessarily uh something within the legislation and um i hope that you're satisfied that i'm just

[0:11:02] Trustee Luckham: stepping away from being the chair and so that's the short answer can

[0:11:07] Voice 16: i respond quickly to that

[0:11:09] Trustee Luckham: i'm sure um

[0:11:11] Voice 16: so i'm sure that that would be fine for this first meeting but the rest of the cows

[0:11:16] Voice 16: going forward we would still need to have somebody elected to be chair so whether it's done at this

[0:11:22] Voice 16: meeting with the next meeting you stepping back in this meeting still doesn't address the issue

[0:11:26] Voice 16: that was raised at trust council and all the reasons that went along with it

[0:11:30] Trustee Luckham: absolutely and

[0:11:31] Trustee Luckham: and this that this is for this meeting the initial high level discussion and how we will facilitate

[0:11:38] Trustee Luckham: this moving forward definitely could be should be different and that conversation is yet to be

[0:11:46] Trustee Luckham: to evolve we're just sort of focused narrowly today on today's events to get this started

[0:11:52] Trustee Luckham: started is that all right okay um so no have not forgot that and absolutely want to respect that

[0:11:59] Trustee Luckham: wish for it to be more different different let's just say more objective so trustee bernardo

[0:12:05] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[0:12:06] Voice 6: thank you um i have to say i have some reservations about the about this approach

[0:12:12] Voice 6: chair that you've just outlined i understand where it's coming from and i'm sympathetic

[0:12:16] Voice 6: it does make sense to try to uh give all the trustees an opportunity to weigh in but

[0:12:21] Voice 6: But that issue is, this won't be the only meeting we have with respect to the trust policy statement.

[0:12:29] Voice 6: I'm pretty sure about that.

[0:12:30] Voice 6: So this issue of the chair of the meeting being somewhat restricted in being able to comment and participate,

[0:12:36] Voice 6: I think that's going to be a perennial issue.

[0:12:37] Voice 6: We're not going to get away from that.

[0:12:39] Voice 6: My concern here is that we're having a meeting of trustees in which we're going to, if we proceed as you've outlined,

[0:12:48] Voice 6: we're going to be putting staff in the position of having to moderate the meeting.

[0:12:52] Voice 6: and you know the trust policy statement is not regular business it is an incredibly important

[0:12:59] Voice 6: thing is going to attract a great deal of our energies and our different and we have different

[0:13:05] Voice 6: perspectives on this and what I'm trying to get at here is there's going to be debate there's

[0:13:12] Voice 6: going to be points of view there's going to be questions some people are going to ask hard

[0:13:16] Voice 6: hard questions, moderating the trustees and sort of making sure the meeting proceeds in an orderly

[0:13:23] Voice 6: and respectful fashion requires a chair who's able to impose a certain amount of discipline

[0:13:28] Voice 6: on the group, following Robert's rules and being respectful of their rights. I don't think we

[0:13:34] Voice 6: should be putting staff in that position or in the risk of that position. And my understanding

[0:13:39] Voice 6: is under Robert's rules, and a committee of the whole is supposed to elect a chair once it

[0:13:45] Voice 6: convenes who's different from the chair from regular meetings and I would ask if possible

[0:13:52] Voice 6: if we could hear from Director Marler about the propriety of proceeding without a chair to

[0:13:59] Voice 6: moderate the trustees.

[0:14:03] Trustee Luckham: So thank you for that suggestion that would be let's go to David Marley.

[0:14:09] Voice 9: Yeah thank you so committee as a whole is really however you would like to run it normally the

[0:14:16] Voice 9: chair of council would just continue to be the chair of committee of the whole unless there's

[0:14:21] Voice 9: a reason you would like to have that different and then the committee could make that decision

[0:14:25] Voice 9: most committee of the halls that i've seen the uh the chair of the the mayor uh just continues as

[0:14:31] Voice 9: that chair role and probably only step aside in certain situations where they may wish to be in

[0:14:38] Voice 9: the debate. Having a staff person come in to facilitate, as intended today, is also something

[0:14:46] Voice 9: that's done and the intent is just to facilitate a discussion. The intent of the Committee as a

[0:14:51] Voice 9: whole is to relax Robert's Rules somewhat so that you can have a discussion that's a little bit more

[0:14:56] Voice 9: freeform. So keep in mind that Trust Council tends to be a little bit more informal than most local

[0:15:05] Voice 9: local governments are. If you go to a council, you'll notice that councillors can only speak

[0:15:10] Voice 9: once on an item, and then that's it. So Committee of the Whole allows councillors to speak as many

[0:15:16] Voice 9: times as they want, and it can allow a little bit of back and forth so that the discussion is more

[0:15:20] Voice 9: free-flowing. So having a staff person in this role, I don't see that as a problem. And the

[0:15:29] Voice 9: normal really is that the mayor does continue with Committee of the Whole. However, provisions

[0:15:34] Voice 9: are in place just to allow that to relax

[0:15:36] Voice 9: in certain situations.

[0:15:39] Voice 27: Do you have any follow

[0:15:41] Voice 6: -up, Mr. Chair?

[0:15:44] Trustee Luckham: Sure.

[0:15:44] Trustee Luckham: Maybe I'll just make a remark, if that's okay,

[0:15:47] Trustee Luckham: to frame it a little bit.

[0:15:49] Trustee Luckham: And I would like to proceed with the committee

[0:15:51] Trustee Luckham: of the whole meeting itself, of course.

[0:15:54] Trustee Luckham: But all of us own the way that the meeting

[0:15:58] Trustee Luckham: is being conducted.

[0:16:00] Trustee Luckham: And I want to ask you all to share that responsibility.

[0:16:02] Trustee Luckham: responsibility and hard questions are not something we should be afraid to ask it's all

[0:16:07] Trustee Luckham: how we ask the question and so it's about being respectful and courteous to each other um in in

[0:16:14] Trustee Luckham: that respect so we shouldn't be afraid of asking hard questions it's just ask them in a respectful

[0:16:19] Trustee Luckham: way and so i'll go back to you trustee bernardo and then i've got two other speakers that wish

[0:16:24] Trustee Luckham: to speak on the topic of approving the agenda here at this point thank

[0:16:28] Voice 6: you uh this i'll be

[0:16:29] Voice 6: be very brief here um but it's interesting to hear director marler that um other local governments

[0:16:35] Voice 6: proceed by using either staff or the the regular chair uh for committees of the whole that doesn't

[0:16:42] Voice 6: square with what i've read in robert's rules could you uh explain that uh to me as to because

[0:16:49] Voice 6: my understanding is robert's rules does have that um direction to elect a chair at the commencement

[0:16:54] Voice 6: of uh when the group enters into committee of the whole to elect a chair who's different

[0:16:59] Voice 6: Do you have any explanation of the discrepancy as to why that practice that's recommended by Robert's Rules is not followed?

[0:17:10] Voice 9: I don't have an understanding of why it's not followed, but I can say that Robert's Rules is like the baseline, the floor.

[0:17:19] Voice 9: So if you've got no other regulations or other bylaws in place or policy, then you default to Robert's Rules.

[0:17:26] Voice 9: So, pretty well every local government, including yourselves, have a meeting procedures by-law and a lot have policies that support that by-law.

[0:17:35] Voice 9: So, usually the by-law will override rubbish rules.

[0:17:39] Voice 9: So, in the instances where it states how the chairing is to take place, you would follow the by-law and not rubbish rules.

[0:17:49] Voice 6: And what does our by-law say about committees as a whole?

[0:17:52] Voice 6: We

[0:17:52] Voice 9: just say that Committee Hall may select a different chair if it wishes to.

[0:17:58] Voice 9: It doesn't say you have to.

[0:18:00] Voice 6: All right, thank you.

[0:18:03] Trustee Luckham: And certainly we're going to consider this

[0:18:06] Trustee Luckham: moving on from this meeting. But let's go Trustee Fast, Elliott and Stamford.

[0:18:11] Trustee Fast: Thank you. I

[0:18:12] Trustee Fast: think I heard the CAO had a comment.

[0:18:17] Voice 8: No, all I'd say is that I've been involved in two regional districts and

[0:18:21] Voice 8: Committee Hall was run by the chair of the regional district in both cases.

[0:18:24] Voice 8: So it's a fairly regular course of business.

[0:18:27] Trustee Fast: I agree.

[0:18:28] Trustee Fast: This is what I was going to say from Bowen Island.

[0:18:29] Trustee Fast: Our mayor runs the committees of the whole, just as he does the councils.

[0:18:33] Trustee Fast: And I'm in approval of the agenda, the way it's set forth.

[0:18:37] Trustee Fast: And I'm going to vote in favor.

[0:18:39] Trustee Fast: Thank you.

[0:18:41] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[0:18:41] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Elliott.

[0:18:43] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[0:18:44] Trustee Elliott: I do support this process.

[0:18:47] Trustee Elliott: And I know it is irregular.

[0:18:49] Trustee Elliott: We're moving into something new.

[0:18:51] Trustee Elliott: um but the reflection that a staff member cannot ably facilitate this part of the meeting i don't

[0:18:58] Trustee Elliott: think has any merit here he's got plenty of experience and this staff member has um well

[0:19:06] Trustee Elliott: in effect this is essentially his last day so i would argue that there's probably nobody

[0:19:11] Trustee Elliott: in the islands trust organization who might have less bias um and be able to carry out the

[0:19:18] Trustee Elliott: facilitation role here so i would really ask that uh the plan be held and tyler brown be um able to

[0:19:27] Trustee Elliott: facilitate this discussion i think it's going to be very helpful for trustees thanks hey

[0:19:33] Trustee Luckham: uh trustee

[0:19:35] Trustee Luckham: stamford i saw your hand was up there trustee morrison did you lower it no okay trustee

[0:19:39] Trustee Luckham: stamford um

[0:19:40] Trustee Stamford: we're already 20 minutes in and we're still trying to prove the agenda i i really hope

[0:19:47] Trustee Stamford: if we can have this conversation at a later time. This is a very valuable meeting. You brought up

[0:19:53] Trustee Stamford: some good points. I don't think we need to discuss this ad infinitum right now. I really hope to get

[0:19:58] Trustee Stamford: on with this.

[0:19:59] Trustee Luckham: Great. Thank you, Kate Louise. So therefore, I haven't heard any amendments to the

[0:20:04] Trustee Luckham: agenda. So if it's all right with council, I am going to approve the agenda by general consent

[0:20:10] Trustee Luckham: as presented. And I see a hand up there. You're going to have to use your electronic hand,

[0:20:16] Trustee Luckham: Or is that a thumb up to say, yeah, so, you know, it's very confusing.

[0:20:21] Trustee Luckham: Digital thumbs up are good and digital hands up are good with 26 people on the screen.

[0:20:26] Trustee Luckham: So let's try to facilitate that.

[0:20:29] Trustee Luckham: So therefore, the agenda is approved.

[0:20:31] Trustee Luckham: And so there's no other general business other than I just want to make a few introductory

[0:20:36] Trustee Luckham: remarks.

[0:20:37] Trustee Luckham: And I am going to be very quick.

[0:20:39] Trustee Luckham: So today, there's a Trust Council meeting of Committee of the Whole.

[0:20:45] Trustee Luckham: it's a format that's being used to focus our time on a single topic and we will spend the

[0:20:51] Trustee Luckham: morning discussing the policy statement amendment project as we are meeting in a committee of the

[0:20:57] Trustee Luckham: whole no decisions of trust council will be made the committee can however move recommendations

[0:21:03] Trustee Luckham: which are subject to the same process and debate that occurs at trust council if the committee

[0:21:09] Trustee Luckham: passes a recommendation, it would be forwarded to Trust Council for their consideration.

[0:21:15] Trustee Luckham: This is an exciting topic, and I know it raises passionate viewpoints because the Islands Trust

[0:21:20] Trustee Luckham: policy shapes land use planning across the Islands Trust area. It shapes our future,

[0:21:25] Trustee Luckham: so we want to get it right. It is an important time for us as Trust Council, and there will be

[0:21:31] Trustee Luckham: areas where we all enthusiastically support our materials that are before us today, but there will

[0:21:37] Trustee Luckham: will also likely be times we find ourselves disagreeing with each other or the content in

[0:21:43] Trustee Luckham: the agenda package. So I ask that we all work to focus our passion and interest and views

[0:21:50] Trustee Luckham: constructively on the content itself. I will ask that we listen to each other deeply so we can do

[0:21:57] Trustee Luckham: our best to understand where another trustee or community may be coming from and that we make

[0:22:05] Trustee Luckham: space amongst us for everyone to feel comfortable sharing views or asking

[0:22:11] Trustee Luckham: questions. The current version of the policy statement has not been

[0:22:15] Trustee Luckham: meaningfully updated since 1994. A lot has changed in 30 years. The communities

[0:22:20] Trustee Luckham: we come from have grown. We are facing housing affordability, environmental

[0:22:24] Trustee Luckham: challenges. We look to meaningful reconciliation with First Nations while

[0:22:28] Trustee Luckham: asking hard questions about what cooperation looks like from now and into

[0:22:33] Trustee Luckham: to the future. We are having the conversation here today as a new starting point that is built

[0:22:38] Trustee Luckham: on years of work and also the ever-growing conversation of how do we preserve and protect

[0:22:43] Trustee Luckham: these beautiful islands and the waters that surround them. We know we will need to have

[0:22:49] Trustee Luckham: more conversation with First Nations, other agencies, and the communities we come from

[0:22:54] Trustee Luckham: on a draft policy statement. That is the work ahead of us, but it is also the work for another

[0:23:00] Trustee Luckham: other day. We must approach this work without having all the answers, but with the confidence

[0:23:05] Trustee Luckham: to know they will emerge through time in dialogue with First Nations and with different communities.

[0:23:11] Trustee Luckham: Focusing on today, there will be time today to ask questions and time for dialogue on the content

[0:23:17] Trustee Luckham: before you. Tyler Brown will help us move through the content, but I remind the Committee of the

[0:23:23] Trustee Luckham: Whole, this is your process. As such, the Executive Committee would like to spend the last 30 minutes

[0:23:29] Trustee Luckham: of the meeting here today to hear from trustees on how they might like to work through the document

[0:23:35] Trustee Luckham: so we can get to a place where we are sharing it again with the communities and First Nations.

[0:23:41] Trustee Luckham: I thank you, trustees, and I look forward to the conversation and how we will give the floor,

[0:23:46] Trustee Luckham: and now just in a moment, I'll give the floor to staff for a brief presentation. So just let you

[0:23:52] Trustee Luckham: know what to expect here. I'm anticipating having a break at 11 o'clock, 15 minutes,

[0:23:57] Trustee Luckham: minutes and then we will continue through to 12 o'clock with the conversation about the high

[0:24:02] Trustee Luckham: level conversation around the trust policy statement and then at 12 o'clock i want to talk

[0:24:06] Trustee Luckham: about next uh meetings further meetings bi-weekly meetings meetings in the in september or the fall

[0:24:13] Trustee Luckham: and what you might want to delegate to executive committee to determine in respect of that we will

[0:24:19] Trustee Luckham: break at 12 30 for a half hour lunch and then we do have a special electronic meeting for a report

[0:24:24] Trustee Luckham: out from the COHC committee that we would appreciate as many of you can that would

[0:24:30] Trustee Luckham: stay with us for that opportunity. So that said, I'm going to turn it to staff, but I will just

[0:24:39] Trustee Luckham: briefly, are there any questions? Is it fairly clear what we're going to do here? Okay, no hands

[0:24:47] Trustee Luckham: up. I'm going to go to, I think Director Freighter is going to kick us off.

[0:24:54] Voice 17: Yes, thank you, Chair.

[0:24:55] Voice 17: share. I'm just going to share a PowerPoint presentation here, just bear with me. Okay,

[0:25:01] Voice 17: is that now showing for you?

[0:25:03] Trustee Luckham: Nope. Yes.

[0:25:06] Voice 17: Now it is. Okay, super. Okay, so thank you. So

[0:25:10] Voice 18: thank you.

[0:25:12] Voice 18: This morning, we're going to just provide a brief presentation for you to just offer a short history

[0:25:17] Voice 18: of the project, just to place you in the trajectory of where this project's been and where it's going.

[0:25:22] Voice 18: and then after the presentation I will be passing it over to Tyler to give you a brief walk through

[0:25:27] Voice 18: the document and then we'll provide you know the floor to you for the rest of the day to

[0:25:32] Voice 18: undertake your discussions generally we expect you'll have about two hours for discussion maybe

[0:25:37] Voice 18: a little bit less now and as the chair mentioned we'll ensure that there's a break at 11 o'clock

[0:25:44] Voice 18: the presentation I'm going to give it's about 12 slides so I'm thinking maybe 10 to 15 minutes

[0:25:48] Voice 18: try and keep it brief so you can have a high overview we are always available for deeper

[0:25:53] Voice 18: questions should you want this is just meant to situate you in place for this conversation so

[0:26:03] Voice 18: we're here to talk about the islands trust policy statement and i wanted to start you off sort of

[0:26:08] Voice 18: with the big picture this document is called for out of the islands trust act and it's really the

[0:26:14] Voice 18: the only direction you have out of the legislation is that trust council must, by bylaw, adopt

[0:26:19] Voice 18: a trust policy statement that applies to the trust area, and then it needs to be a general

[0:26:24] Voice 18: statement of policies of the trust council to carry out the object of the trust.

[0:26:29] Voice 18: So generally, that's the direction you're working with, and over the various decades

[0:26:33] Voice 18: of the trust, that has been interpreted in different ways, and really it's for you, this

[0:26:37] Voice 18: term of council, to determine how you wish to interpret that, and how detailed and prescriptive

[0:26:42] Voice 18: you wish to be.

[0:26:44] Voice 18: Finally, the other direction you have out of the legislation is that a bylaw must not be approved if it is contrary to or at variance with the Trust Policy Statement.

[0:26:53] Voice 18: So you'll see on your image here, the Trust Policy Statement plays a similar but different role to regional growth strategies for regional districts.

[0:27:02] Voice 18: And essentially the role that they play is to set the overarching planning framework that guides long-term decisions and long-term land use planning decisions.

[0:27:11] Voice 18: decisions. So they have a similar but different function. And of course, within the Islands Trust

[0:27:16] Voice 18: area, you've got the object that guides the content of the policy statement and your decision

[0:27:22] Voice 18: making framework. So I'll move on there. So I'm just going to take a few slides here and just

[0:27:29] Voice 18: give you a sense of the history. The history goes back as far as 2010, but we thought we'd skip over

[0:27:34] Voice 18: ancient times and start at 2014, where this project kicked off initially with a state of

[0:27:41] Voice 18: the islands report which is still available on the island's trust website and this was meant to sort

[0:27:46] Voice 18: of develop a baseline of information around the status of community economic environment social

[0:27:53] Voice 18: activities with metrics that the island's trust could afford to study and produce

[0:27:57] Voice 18: so that was meant to inform the work moving forward council also amended three policies

[0:28:04] Voice 18: about the policy statement so guiding how the amendment process happened which was largely to

[0:28:09] Voice 18: add more engagement process to mirror what happens with regional district processes also there were

[0:28:16] Voice 18: some tweaks to the implementation policy and the rescinding of a policy called the topic inventory

[0:28:22] Voice 18: where council would have a bump and then push the topic into the topic inventory

[0:28:27] Voice 18: that would sort of devolve more of a staff function that could just be done by resolution

[0:28:33] Voice 18: um in 2017 this is when this sort of big big project as you see it today somewhat kicked off

[0:28:39] Voice 18: where council assigned executive committee with involvement from trust programs committee as

[0:28:43] Voice 18: appropriate to coordinate the review of the policy statement in those early days this was viewed as

[0:28:49] Voice 18: the warm-up phase and was meant to not have the directive policies that we i think there was we

[0:28:55] Voice 18: were naive there was an idea that by not looking at the directives this would be an easy low-cost

[0:29:01] Voice 18: undertaking to just change the preamble language um and some of the glossary stuff it did not play

[0:29:08] Voice 18: out that way into the next term last term there were some significant thematic events that happened

[0:29:17] Voice 18: that informed the work of amending the policy statement council passed three declarations

[0:29:23] Voice 18: one around its commitment to reconciliation the other was to declare a climate emergency

[0:29:28] Voice 18: and the other was to declare a housing equity and workforce housing shortage emergency

[0:29:32] Voice 18: And so those three themes really became dominant in the work, and Council subsequently sort of directed through the strategic plan that those be key themes of the update process.

[0:29:46] Voice 18: Trust Programs Committee was really assigned through that term to take on the lead around developing content of the policy statement, and trustees of that committee broke into working groups and really worked strongly helping co-operate.

[0:30:00] Voice 18: pandemic in many cases around what how they wanted the language to be um and then came back to trust

[0:30:05] Voice 18: programs committee with their recommendations trust programs committee ultimately guided the

[0:30:10] Voice 18: development of the document and then passed it to council um in the march of 2021 um meeting prior

[0:30:19] Voice 18: really essentially just in the spring before they considered first reading there was a major

[0:30:22] Voice 18: discussion paper produced which was included and linked from this um the briefing materials you've

[0:30:28] Voice 18: got given, which highlighted some of the key themes and tried to position this in the arc

[0:30:32] Voice 18: of history around the trust relationships with Indigenous peoples, the tension that's

[0:30:38] Voice 18: always existed between how prescriptive this document should be, should it be directive

[0:30:42] Voice 18: to local trust committees and not leave a lot of ambiguity, or should it be more loose

[0:30:47] Voice 18: and allow for local autonomy to be the balance.

[0:30:51] Voice 18: It's really a balancing act that goes on there, and also provide some background around the

[0:30:56] Voice 18: interpretations of unique amenities.

[0:30:59] Voice 18: Following discussion of that, there were some motions passed, and we wound up in a place

[0:31:03] Voice 18: in July of 2021 with a draft document, and Council voted to not hold first reading, did

[0:31:10] Voice 18: not pass any amendments to the document, and decided to seek feedback from First Nations

[0:31:15] Voice 18: agencies and public on that draft as it stood at that moment in time.

[0:31:20] Voice 18: So we went off and did that with probably the most major engagement effort ever held

[0:31:26] Voice 18: at the trust brought in an outside firm and went all over the trust area visited every island every

[0:31:32] Voice 18: community pretty well and had online focus as well and that resulted in trust programs committee

[0:31:39] Voice 18: incubating all that work providing recommendations with executive committee to trust council

[0:31:44] Voice 18: and they ended up passing 32 resolutions which have now guided the work we do we've done for

[0:31:49] Voice 18: you this term. Finally, from 2022 to present, so this term, essentially you have received

[0:31:58] Voice 18: orientation to this project early this term, and you've been guiding the project through

[0:32:03] Voice 18: approval of various project charters. We have faced some significant delays due to staff

[0:32:09] Voice 18: turnover and some vacancies in the key policy advisor position, so it took us longer to get

[0:32:15] Voice 18: this to you than we wanted, but we hope that from now forward we'll be well supported and can

[0:32:19] Voice 18: support you in crafting this into a document that you wish to support so just including a slide here

[0:32:26] Voice 18: on engagement and referral feedback all of this is available on the audience 2050 page

[0:32:32] Voice 18: um we encourage you to go in and read this to inform your views to understand

[0:32:36] Voice 18: what has been provided to you so far and all the thinking that has happened um and so yeah we

[0:32:42] Voice 18: encourage you to go in there and read deeply we upon request we can email this out to any of you

[0:32:46] Voice 18: that want to have it in that form.

[0:32:48] Voice 18: But this is all of the public's views, First Nations' views,

[0:32:52] Voice 18: and provincial and local agencies.

[0:32:58] Voice 18: So I wanted to take a minute and talk about the engagement process

[0:33:01] Voice 18: we've been going through with First Nations.

[0:33:03] Voice 18: Today you've received as part of the agenda feedback from Cowichan tribes,

[0:33:08] Voice 18: Sechelt Nation, Malahat Nation, Comox, Squamish, Penelaket,

[0:33:12] Voice 18: Laiakson, and Sayout First Nations.

[0:33:15] Voice 18: We are

[0:33:16] Voice 18: still awaiting feedback from Tubasset, Halal, and Sana'wis First Nations.

[0:33:20] Voice 18: As those arrive, we will be adding them to the webpage and letting you know through an email that those have arrived.

[0:33:27] Voice 18: In our conversations with First Nations, we were very clear with them, this is an early draft.

[0:33:32] Voice 18: This is a draft for comment, a draft for seeking feedback on.

[0:33:36] Voice 18: We were clear that no elected official of this term had seen the draft,

[0:33:39] Voice 18: and we have received no direction from Council on language to go in it during this term of office.

[0:33:45] Voice 18: We also made it very clear that Council could change the document significantly.

[0:33:50] Voice 18: But in making those changes, Council would enjoy having feedback in hand from nations

[0:33:56] Voice 18: that it can then balance with any public commentary it's getting.

[0:34:00] Voice 18: In the engagement meetings, we heard that general information about how First Nations would like to work with the Trust generally

[0:34:09] Voice 18: both on this project and general projects,

[0:34:12] Voice 18: which included a preference for co-design

[0:34:15] Voice 18: of amendment processes and discussion

[0:34:17] Voice 18: in advance about timelines.

[0:34:20] Voice 18: We heard that in the drafting work,

[0:34:22] Voice 18: there's a desire to have more acknowledgement

[0:34:24] Voice 18: of Indigenous self-governance and inherent rights

[0:34:26] Voice 18: to be self-governing decision makers

[0:34:29] Voice 18: within their respective territories

[0:34:30] Voice 18: and the role of stewards in the territories.

[0:34:33] Voice 18: We also heard that reflecting UNDRIP affirms their right

[0:34:36] Voice 18: to participate in decision-making matters

[0:34:38] Voice 18: and that they are looking for us to signal

[0:34:40] Voice 18: obtainment of First Nations having free, prior, and informed consent.

[0:34:46] Voice 18: Nations also generally gave us the thumbs up

[0:34:48] Voice 18: to tell you generally they're in support of proceeding with this project.

[0:34:52] Voice 18: They feel that the old document that we're currently working with

[0:34:55] Voice 18: really isn't sufficient, and they would, you know,

[0:34:58] Voice 18: despite their asks for more involvement

[0:35:00] Voice 18: and for a different way of doing it,

[0:35:02] Voice 18: at this time they'd like you to proceed

[0:35:04] Voice 18: such that you could sort of, we talked about it as raising the safety net,

[0:35:07] Voice 18: getting some stronger policy direction in place that's more suitable to the challenges of today.

[0:35:13] Voice 18: Generally, though, in those conversations, we heard some requests that are sort of outside

[0:35:17] Voice 18: of what we can achieve with current legislative restrictions. So we were clear with First Nation

[0:35:21] Voice 18: representatives that co-governance and co-decision making is not a legislatively achievable goal at

[0:35:27] Voice 18: this time. And so when those topics came up, we were clear with nations that the path to that

[0:35:32] Voice 18: has been set out through the province and is a un declaration agreement done under the un

[0:35:37] Voice 18: declaration act between the nation and the province so islands trust would be you know

[0:35:43] Voice 18: directed through that kind of an agreement um and so that's where we have suggested that that energy

[0:35:48] Voice 18: be put at this time until such time as more events happen to us or you examine your own government's

[0:35:53] Voice 18: regime in a different way um we will be coming to you with a more comprehensive um summary of

[0:36:00] Voice 18: all the feedback received there were many things mentioned that didn't directly affect the draft

[0:36:04] Voice 18: we would like you and to see that at a later time when we've had time to collate it all um here is

[0:36:13] Voice 18: the current project timeline just to again situate you in the arc of the project um we are here in

[0:36:19] Voice 18: the blue section of october to fall of 2024 but what i would say to you is that this everything

[0:36:28] Voice 18: is open now we almost wanted to just put dot dot dot rather than keep the graphic as it is you need

[0:36:33] Voice 18: to take the time that you need to take to make this what you want it to be and that could be a

[0:36:38] Voice 18: certain couple of meetings that could be an entirely different and long process this is

[0:36:43] Voice 18: entirely yours to decide um so we are here to support you you can send us back to the drawing

[0:36:48] Voice 18: board or you can tweak it really we're here to support any anywhere along that spectrum

[0:36:53] Voice 18: so this is the currently um publicized anticipated time frame this is what you've budgeted towards

[0:36:59] Voice 18: towards having public engagement for six months this year,

[0:37:02] Voice 18: but it can all change, right?

[0:37:03] Voice 18: The priority is to get it to a place

[0:37:06] Voice 18: where you are comfortable and you feel

[0:37:07] Voice 18: that this is something that you're ready

[0:37:09] Voice 18: to talk to your public about.

[0:37:11] Voice 18: In the same way, we've told nations

[0:37:13] Voice 18: that they can anticipate hearing from us

[0:37:15] Voice 18: in fall of next year.

[0:37:16] Voice 18: Should that not be ready at that time,

[0:37:18] Voice 18: we'll just advise them that legislative process

[0:37:20] Voice 18: is moving slower and that they'll hear back from us

[0:37:23] Voice 18: when we're ready.

[0:37:28] Voice 18: So taking a minute now, highlights of changes.

[0:37:30] Voice 18: changes. It's hopefully simpler to read than the last one. We got rid of the constraints about

[0:37:35] Voice 18: having three different policy types, so that has really helped us simplify it. We've removed much

[0:37:40] Voice 18: of the preamble language about interpretations of the object. We have removed advocacy policies,

[0:37:46] Voice 18: particularly the ones around seeking a tree cutting authority for local trust committees.

[0:37:51] Voice 18: We've removed policy about the desalination plants. We've refined policies related to seawalls,

[0:37:57] Voice 18: private docks and agriculture. We shifted to the term of Indigenous governing bodies

[0:38:03] Voice 18: rather than First Nations to be in keeping with the UN Declaration Act and this future proves the

[0:38:09] Voice 18: document to some degree such that we see this change is coming and so we thought we might as

[0:38:14] Voice 18: well do it now because we don't know when you might open up the document in the future. And

[0:38:18] Voice 18: finally we've added new principles and policies addressing reconciliation and cooperation with

[0:38:25] Voice 18: indigenous governing bodies we expect this is where you're going to spend some time talking

[0:38:29] Voice 18: you know around where you're comfortable um in those changes and then finally we added a glossary

[0:38:34] Voice 18: and new terms for cars for consideration um the summary of the briefing before you um we have only

[0:38:43] Voice 18: made changes based off the 32 resolutions that were given to us we have not addressed events

[0:38:49] Voice 18: that have occurred this term so for example uh the statement on the object around the definition

[0:38:54] Voice 18: of community communities and the vision statement that would be for you to

[0:38:59] Voice 18: consider now in the new draft if there's things you want to change relating to

[0:39:03] Voice 18: those deliberations that you've had we did however bump into two additional

[0:39:07] Voice 18: recommendations that were outside of the 32 that we thought it might be

[0:39:11] Voice 18: beneficial to mention to you for consideration of recommendations to

[0:39:14] Voice 18: Trust Council one was a new directive policy around protection of undisturbed

[0:39:19] Voice 18: islets and small islands this is a topic that has come up quite frequently over

[0:39:24] Voice 18: were recent times and it's felt that maybe more policy direction there would be beneficial

[0:39:29] Voice 18: and there is a policy around helicopter emergency helicopter locations this is outside your

[0:39:35] Voice 18: jurisdiction so we felt it might be as you're opening the document this might be something

[0:39:40] Voice 18: you might wish to remove sort of as a cleanup measure so now it's up to trust council this

[0:39:45] Voice 18: is over to you staff have drafted a document we know it's not perfect we expect for it to change

[0:39:51] Voice 18: change, and we're here to support that process. As you do this work, we would encourage you to

[0:39:56] Voice 18: keep your eye on the horizon here. We're not looking for you to craft it to a perfect state

[0:40:02] Voice 18: before you go to your communities. We're looking for you to get it ready for public comment.

[0:40:06] Voice 18: And so if there are matters that you are divided on, it might make sense to leave them in,

[0:40:11] Voice 18: because then you can seek the public's views on them, and then you can make a decision later

[0:40:17] Voice 18: about whether to keep them in, change them, or take them out. So we encourage you to sort of

[0:40:21] Voice 18: keep a big principled approach don't look for perfection don't look for 100% agreement at this

[0:40:26] Voice 18: stage because really you're just trying to get something that you feel is ready for public

[0:40:30] Voice 18: comment there will be many many opportunities over the next two or three years for you to change the

[0:40:36] Voice 18: document you've got this approval of principle moment you'll have other moments and then you'll

[0:40:41] Voice 18: move into the legislative process around first second and third reading sorry you can't see

[0:40:48] Voice 7: but

[0:40:48] Voice 18: Trustee Morrison has her hand up.

[0:40:50] Voice 18: Oh, okay.

[0:40:51] Voice 18: I'm sorry, we couldn't see it here,

[0:40:52] Voice 18: but Alex has just brought my attention

[0:40:53] Voice 18: that Trustee Morrison has her hand up.

[0:40:56] Voice 14: No, I'll wait to the end of your presentation, Claire.

[0:40:58] Voice 14: Thank you.

[0:40:58] Voice 18: Just a little bit to go.

[0:41:01] Voice 18: We just wanted to just linger.

[0:41:02] Voice 18: I've had a few questions around implementation.

[0:41:05] Voice 18: We really haven't put much energy into this yet

[0:41:07] Voice 18: for two reasons.

[0:41:08] Voice 18: One, we haven't had the staff capacity to do so,

[0:41:10] Voice 18: but also we don't want to go too far

[0:41:12] Voice 18: working down a road

[0:41:13] Voice 18: when you might provide a complete shift of course.

[0:41:15] Voice 18: So we have ideas about how this might work

[0:41:17] Voice 18: and how we would like to recommend changes happen but we're going to defer to your direction once

[0:41:23] Voice 18: you've really framed this up we do anticipate there'll be changes to the policy statement

[0:41:27] Voice 18: implementation policy and to the checklist directives checklist at this time staff are

[0:41:33] Voice 18: thinking of recommending to you that we move away from this yes or no black and white approach of

[0:41:37] Voice 18: compliance and move more into a narrative discussion of why things are seen to comply

[0:41:42] Voice 18: and it is more in keeping with the idea of trade-offs when you look at the document as a

[0:41:48] Voice 18: whole you'd be able to compare why certain things comply and why they don't and then make a decision

[0:41:52] Voice 18: looking at the overall nature of the document finally we are recommending in the draft itself

[0:41:59] Voice 18: that you call for a policy statement implementation plan this could then be developed you know as a

[0:42:05] Voice 18: separate document that would be a companion or a subset of your strategic plan that could have

[0:42:09] Voice 18: have timelines for updating all the official community plans and land use bylaws. It would

[0:42:14] Voice 18: then link to your strategic plan and corporate plan and feed your budget planning process.

[0:42:18] Voice 18: And potentially, that would then provide a framework for our funding request to the province

[0:42:23] Voice 18: for the effort required to do all the updating that would subsequently be required. And finally,

[0:42:30] Voice 18: we would continue to report out on the implementation of all the good work that you

[0:42:33] Voice 18: all do out there through the annual report and finally for next steps here we are now into the

[0:42:42] Voice 18: place where we're going to pass it over to you tyler's going to give you a few comments to

[0:42:46] Voice 18: provide recommendations to trust counsel you can request in these meetings staff advice or

[0:42:51] Voice 18: reporting would be prepared for future meetings and you could request legal counsel for future

[0:42:55] Voice 18: meetings should you wish once you've concluded the series of meetings that you want to have on this

[0:43:01] Voice 18: trust counsel can be convened in a special meeting if you wish to receive the recommendations out of

[0:43:07] Voice 18: this body consider approve consider approval in principle and then direct staff to proceed with

[0:43:12] Voice 18: public engagement on the draft that's been approved um finally as a note i'll just say that

[0:43:17] Voice 18: at this time really we're messaging to the public to kind of hold their commentary

[0:43:22] Voice 18: until you've had time to frame something up that you're comfortable with if correspondence

[0:43:26] Voice 18: is received we are posting it to the island's 2050 page so if you'd like to see what's coming

[0:43:30] Voice 18: and you certainly could just keep an eye on the correspondence section there.

[0:43:35] Voice 18: And so finally, you're at the beginning of a multi-year journey here. We are very pleased

[0:43:41] Voice 18: to support you. We want you to build a document that is what the Act calls for, the General

[0:43:46] Voice 18: Statement of Trust Council Policies that will be used to carry out the object of the trust.

[0:43:51] Voice 18: And so this is for you to determine how you interpret that, what you want it to look like,

[0:43:57] Voice 18: how strong you want it to be, and what themes are most important to you at this point in history and

[0:44:02] Voice 18: at this point of the term. So with that, I will conclude and be happy to take questions and then

[0:44:08] Voice 18: I'll pass it to Tyler to give you a brief run through the document. I

[0:44:15] Voice 17: see Trustee Morrison.

[0:44:16] Voice 10: Trustee Morrison.

[0:44:19] Voice 14: Yes, thank you. In your report, Claire, not on the trust policy statement,

[0:44:23] Voice 14: I know we'll get to that, but in your reporting document, it looks like the way that you

[0:44:33] Voice 14: you interpreted our interpretation of the object is not my understanding that I have iterated

[0:44:39] Voice 14: multiple times with the leadership of the trust and at the March Trust Council. So the Trust

[0:44:46] Voice 14: Council did not come to consensus on the interpretation of the object. We came to

[0:44:51] Voice 14: consensus on the interpretation of the legal interpretation of the object. And that is a

[0:44:57] Voice 14: different thing so i just need that clarified in these documents because it really matters

[0:45:03] Voice 14: to community and to conflict that we have across like our understandings thank you

[0:45:11] Voice 10: trustee yates

[0:45:14] Voice 11: thank you i wish to uh echo exactly what trustee morrison has just said thank you thank

[0:45:24] Voice 1: you okay

[0:45:28] Voice 10: i see no uh no hands up there um that doesn't mean if there isn't questions that emerge uh

[0:45:33] Voice 10: later that we can circle back to what Claire covered.

[0:45:36] Voice 10: So good morning, Chair Luckum and trustees.

[0:45:39] Voice 10: It is really good to be in front of you on this topic.

[0:45:41] Voice 10: And I know from connecting with staff

[0:45:44] Voice 10: over the last few months,

[0:45:46] Voice 10: any direction that you provide on this,

[0:45:48] Voice 10: whether it's process, whether it's content

[0:45:50] Voice 10: is extremely welcomed.

[0:45:51] Voice 10: Whether that's today or in subsequent meetings,

[0:45:56] Voice 10: we do want that guidance from you.

[0:45:59] Voice 10: And Trustee Elliott, thank you for your vote of confidence.

[0:46:02] Voice 10: but it has been quite a few years since I've facilitated a conversation among elected

[0:46:07] Voice 10: officials this large so please go easy on me I will do my best but you know it can be challenging

[0:46:17] Voice 10: with limited time and this many people and so we we do know you've had a lot of information

[0:46:22] Voice 10: and materials in front of you probably a lot of community comments as well the last three weeks

[0:46:26] Voice 10: projects and you know we're very aware that this project has a history of it as well and can be

[0:46:32] Voice 10: the source of controversy at times. So you know acknowledging that sometimes this project probably

[0:46:41] Voice 10: has felt like it goes too slow and then too fast and all in the same week we've really trying to

[0:46:47] Voice 10: be cognizant of that and set you up for success with whatever decisions you may make and so

[0:46:53] Voice 10: So you'll notice that within that, the materials are hopefully have noticed that we've tried to present the same information to you a variety of ways.

[0:47:02] Voice 10: So you can chew on it, not necessarily digest it.

[0:47:07] Voice 10: And that's especially true, I think, of, you know, a draft policy statement in front of you.

[0:47:12] Voice 10: It's just one way of trying to present feedback in response to both First Nations input, the 32 resolutions, and for your consideration.

[0:47:22] Voice 10: But I've gone through the materials,

[0:47:24] Voice 1: especially, oh,

[0:47:25] Voice 10: is there, oh, that might have just been

[0:47:30] Voice 1: some feedback.

[0:47:31] Voice 1: I don't know.

[0:47:31] Voice 1: Oh, yeah.

[0:47:32] Voice 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[0:47:32] Voice 1: I'm here.

[0:47:33] Voice 10: I think I've caught it there.

[0:47:35] Voice 10: I'll mute it.

[0:47:38] Voice 10: Yeah, so I've gone through the, you know, all the materials and the rich history of

[0:47:41] Voice 10: this project, even as, you know, last night, just in preparation, it became fundamentally

[0:47:47] Voice 10: clear that there's you know a lot of differing of opinions on a lot of things but what unites

[0:47:53] Voice 10: all of that is a general belief that answering the question of right of how we preserve and

[0:47:59] Voice 10: protect or how we try to move forward uh and preserve the the beauty and the magic of the

[0:48:07] Voice 10: islands is a key concern of just everybody uh in their in their commentary and and whether it's in

[0:48:14] Voice 10: the public more at the trustee table and so that's been really neat from my perspective and i just

[0:48:20] Voice 10: just want to point that out as uh something i've noticed and maybe because today is sort of my last

[0:48:25] Voice 10: formal day and i am a resident of uh one of the islands um it's cool to see that you know that's

[0:48:30] Voice 10: not present in uh policy documents or policy projects uh everywhere and as claire highlighted

[0:48:37] Voice 10: we know the goal today isn't to a draft uh to adopt a draft it's a high level overview and it's

[0:48:43] Voice 10: to begin a conversation amongst you around shaping the document

[0:48:47] Voice 10: and getting it out to further input.

[0:48:51] Voice 10: And I've been sort of joking with Claire and others that, you know,

[0:48:54] Voice 10: this project may take some time, but fundamentally it's sort of about moving

[0:49:00] Voice 10: at the speed of trust with First Nations, amongst yourselves,

[0:49:03] Voice 10: and with your communities.

[0:49:05] Voice 10: And so we're here to assist in that.

[0:49:07] Voice 10: We know it's a lot of information.

[0:49:09] Voice 10: We know there's big concepts and there's big conversations that need to have.

[0:49:14] Voice 10: and we do want to hear from you, and I hope you'll ask the questions that you need to ask

[0:49:19] Voice 10: and make the points that you need to make, but I want you to be forewarned that if I may ask a

[0:49:24] Voice 10: little bit of probing questions or seek clarification, and this is mainly to try to

[0:49:29] Voice 10: get to the heart of a matter, so trustees in dialogue, so staff with takeaways, that we have

[0:49:37] Voice 10: a good understanding of where someone's coming from and how we can best answer it and best engage

[0:49:42] Voice 10: engage with it. We do have mechanisms that we can utilize to go in closed, if that's desired,

[0:49:47] Voice 10: amongst trustees. And you will probably hear at certain times, if there's a question,

[0:49:52] Voice 10: staff will simply say, we don't have the answer. We will make note of it, and we'll do our best

[0:49:57] Voice 10: to get that to you, whether it's in follow-up emails, if it's that simple, or additional

[0:50:02] Voice 10: information for other meetings. And finally, I would say that in a conversation like this,

[0:50:10] Voice 10: If we can't be in person, you know, we do, we will expect divergence at times and, you know, hopefully convergence at a certain point on other items.

[0:50:19] Voice 10: But when we can't be in person, we are going to try to keep the tiles up on the screen as much as possible so we can see each other.

[0:50:27] Voice 10: That's not to say that if someone, you know, really, if we need something up, we'll bring it up on the screen and that way people can see it together.

[0:50:34] Voice 10: But, you know, that human connection is important and we're limited when we meet virtually, so we'll do our best.

[0:50:41] Voice 10: Now, I'm aware we're a little bit behind already, and so I'm going to shorten a little bit of

[0:50:46] Voice 10: my presentation.

[0:50:47] Voice 10: Claire touched on a lot of these items.

[0:50:50] Voice 10: Alex, if we could just get the policy statement up on the draft up on screen, and I'll just

[0:50:56] Voice 10: ask you to move to the sections.

[0:50:58] Voice 10: But you will note that Section 1, as Claire highlighted, has undergone some changes for

[0:51:05] Voice 10: you to consider.

[0:51:06] Voice 10: much of the preamble has been taken out um and this content is really in response to

[0:51:14] Voice 10: feedback around some of those items raise reactions for folks in community also first nations

[0:51:22] Voice 10: and uh and then we sort of as we reflected on that sort of noted that you know it wasn't it

[0:51:28] Voice 10: was a part in a way of the last policy statement but it wasn't included as the core document and

[0:51:33] Voice 10: maybe there was some wisdom in there because some of those items are going to be framed differently

[0:51:37] Voice 10: and in other documents over time and involve over time but we did hear from first nations

[0:51:42] Voice 10: that the acknowledgement of their concerns or their rights and their titles even in understanding

[0:51:51] Voice 10: that the there's a limited legislative context of the islands trust and how it exists today

[0:51:57] Voice 10: and the scope of this project, there was the desire there to see those concerns at the

[0:52:04] Voice 10: forefront, and those acknowledgments at the forefront.

[0:52:07] Voice 10: So we've tried to provide some language that acknowledges that this is a shifting and ever-evolving

[0:52:11] Voice 10: landscape, but there are some inherent rights that aren't necessarily the Islands Trust's

[0:52:16] Voice 10: responsibility, but they do shape and they do need to be considered and acknowledged

[0:52:23] Voice 10: as part of the work the Trust does.

[0:52:26] Voice 10: but if we move on a little further uh alex we could go down to where we start with section two

[0:52:31] Voice 10: but this what is drafted essentially it builds down into a series of policies the meat of the

[0:52:39] Voice 10: document and they're divided into two the first are guiding principles and the second are directive

[0:52:44] Voice 10: policies now these could be labeled different things but essentially guiding policies the first

[0:52:51] Voice 10: type of policy are principles they're the intended established and general commitments of trust

[0:52:58] Voice 10: council that center the work that it does in the object and ties it back to legislation

[0:53:06] Voice 10: they are meant to be viewed holistically in the sense that with any given decision there's always

[0:53:16] Voice 10: going to be trade-offs and the hardest decision hardest decisions are always when you have

[0:53:21] Voice 10: your principles or in this case your guiding principles when they may be in conflict with

[0:53:28] Voice 10: each other and so what we've tried to what the crafters here have really tried to do is frame

[0:53:35] Voice 10: them in a way that we can look at these more holistically and say and there's a conversation

[0:53:40] Voice 10: and there's going to be an interplay and intersection amongst all these principles

[0:53:44] Voice 10: and that is the role of trust council as it filters down to the other committees as well to

[0:53:51] Voice 10: say hey how do these principles on balance move us forward towards our object are they is there

[0:53:57] Voice 10: alignment there again just time i want to leave a lot of time for trustee dialogue and trustee

[0:54:02] Voice 10: questions so i'm going to not get into the specifics of some of those there secondary

[0:54:07] Voice 10: to that but not of any less importance is directive policies and these are more prescriptive

[0:54:15] Voice 10: uh in the sense uh they are for local trust councils to consider as they make decisions

[0:54:21] Voice 10: decisions both at the policy level but you know we know do we know where the rubber hits the road

[0:54:25] Voice 10: and planning decisions and things like that but they have to be considered as well um and so at

[0:54:30] Voice 10: those at those more local tables uh these are fleshed out a little bit more they're more

[0:54:36] Voice 10: directive but attempts here again have really been made to not make them overly prescriptive

[0:54:41] Voice 10: and there's going to be a tension that emerges there around and you know i i definitely think

[0:54:47] Voice 10: This is reflected in community dialogue. It's been already reflected in the last few weeks around how some people have responded to it.

[0:54:55] Voice 10: If you go too prescriptive, on one hand, okay, you might be assuring certain things, but you don't leave room for adaptability, flexibility, and innovation that may emerge over time.

[0:55:09] Voice 10: and they can be that tension can be problematic at times when we when policies do collide when

[0:55:17] Voice 10: those values do collide which one takes precedence how do you how do you weigh them on balance if

[0:55:22] Voice 10: they're overly prescriptive not necessarily saying these all hit the mark absolutely a lot

[0:55:27] Voice 10: staff staff are very aware that they don't and it's a it's an attempt to step into that tension

[0:55:32] Voice 10: and provide a level of direction without being overly prescriptive and acknowledging that a lot

[0:55:39] Voice 10: of these principles are going to be put into practice or put into implementation at the

[0:55:46] Voice 10: LTC level, at the Bowling Island Municipality level, through OCPs and other zoning and other

[0:55:52] Voice 10: policies. As you can see, this section is a lot greater. There has been some sort of commentary

[0:56:02] Voice 10: we've received, especially around sort of limiting growth and items like that. A lot of these

[0:56:07] Voice 10: These policies are just merely built on the existing policy statement policies, modernized,

[0:56:15] Voice 10: and I think, too, I'd like to pull out, just don't want to dwell on them, like I said,

[0:56:20] Voice 10: because there is a lot and we do want to leave room for conversation.

[0:56:26] Voice 10: But on limiting the scale and growth and development, that's essentially matching a policy that's

[0:56:32] Voice 10: found in the policy statement already.

[0:56:35] Voice 10: already. However, you will notice that housing has been sort of pulled out of that, and I think

[0:56:40] Voice 10: that's really, it has its own section. That's really just a response to the crisis that is

[0:56:46] Voice 10: present in communities across the islands, across the province, and across the country around

[0:56:52] Voice 10: how important housing is, and it's the impacts of when it's not obtainable.

[0:56:59] Voice 10: Also, you'll notice a lot of policies in there around First Nations and reconciliation.

[0:57:05] Voice 10: As they relate to the planning matters, we've tried to capture and incorporate comments received into the work that's already happening around discretionary approvals, knowing that additional refinement decisions at the LTC tables would be needed to start to codify existing practice and policy into our processes.

[0:57:30] Voice 10: practices. And also merging some of the development items around heritage sites and important

[0:57:41] Voice 10: cultural sites and how that might get reflected into our planning practices. Again, trying

[0:57:46] Voice 10: to thread the gap between not being overly prescriptive, leaving room for those local

[0:57:50] Voice 10: conversations between whether it's Bowen Island Municipality or local trust councils with

[0:57:55] Voice 10: with the nations that have interests

[0:57:58] Voice 10: and we occupy their traditional territory,

[0:58:02] Voice 10: but at the same time, put some higher principles in place

[0:58:05] Voice 10: around how we might meet them.

[0:58:06] Voice 10: Again, do we thread that gap?

[0:58:08] Voice 10: That's a conversation for the trustees at tables like this,

[0:58:13] Voice 10: but that's really the intention there

[0:58:14] Voice 10: is trying to find that balance.

[0:58:19] Voice 10: I think that's where I'll close

[0:58:20] Voice 10: because I think Claire has really touched upon

[0:58:22] Voice 10: the evolution of the document.

[0:58:25] Voice 10: We know a lot of these items are going to be subject of debate, whether here or at the community level, and that's crucial.

[0:58:35] Voice 10: Because a lot of hands and a lot of minds had already touched the crafting and the shaping of this document,

[0:58:41] Voice 10: both at the trustee level through subsequent terms and subsequent conversations in response to the resolutions passed,

[0:58:50] Voice 10: continual feedback from first nations that has been ongoing and has been has been very useful

[0:58:55] Voice 10: to consider and you know outside agencies and community and there's a lot of that left and so

[0:59:05] Voice 10: where we're at is at a time where i think a lot of effort has gone into a little by a lot of people

[0:59:11] Voice 10: people into crafting the document that's before you but also knowing full well that still a huge

[0:59:19] Voice 10: chunk of work with respect to getting this out getting this or something else out of to community

[0:59:25] Voice 10: back to First Nations once trustees feel confidence that there's a document there

[0:59:30] Voice 10: that they really want to engage formally and more deeply on and then we'll you know hopefully get

[0:59:35] Voice 10: that back and that's going to be a multi-year process that would start to move you towards

[0:59:41] Voice 10: its first reading so yeah i cognizant how much time we've already used um to get to this point

[0:59:47] Voice 10: so at this point i think this is where we'll sort of turn it over to trustees for for questions and

[0:59:52] Voice 10: comments and i would just note um that if it does look like it's really starting to shift into

[0:59:57] Voice 10: to, I've got to recommend.

[1:00:00] Voice 10: recommendation, I want to move it. I will respectfully step back and pass the baton

[1:00:07] Voice 10: back over to Chair Luckum as that's a role more appropriate for him to facilitate debate

[1:00:12] Voice 10: on the recommendation amongst trustees. Trustee Maberly, you're muted there, sir.

[1:00:28] Voice 3: I think I've got it there. Trustee Maberly here. So at the beginning you spoke about

[1:00:34] Voice 3: inherent rights. Could you expand on that, please, a little bit? Yeah, I just want to expand on that

[1:00:41] Voice 3: a little bit. I have a couple of questions there, I think.

[1:00:45] Voice 10: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, under

[1:00:49] Voice 10: Section 35 of the Constitution, through different court rulings and judgments, and also traditional

[1:00:59] Voice 10: traditional territory maps, and the assertion of cultural interests by First Nations.

[1:01:06] Voice 10: There's a whole host of sort of legal and self-asserted rights there that First Nations,

[1:01:15] Voice 10: some of them inherent to the First Nations, feel very strongly about.

[1:01:20] Voice 10: And some of them, you know, we've seen legislation, the Drupal legislation in British Columbia,

[1:01:25] Voice 10: start to say, hey, this is where all our policy documents and legislative documents need to

[1:01:30] Voice 10: move to uh in conversation with the ministry uh we have sought some guidance on how to best

[1:01:36] Voice 10: incorporate that and and shared some of this language with them knowing full well that uh

[1:01:41] Voice 10: any policy statement document is going to require minister approval and so you know this the

[1:01:48] Voice 10: language sort of crafted is a in response to all those items trying to acknowledge those uh

[1:01:56] Voice 10: different interests but also ground the realities of what the Islands Trust Act says right now

[1:02:04] Voice 10: and the scope of this project and it's not sort of over commit or over promise on items that

[1:02:10] Voice 10: would raise expectation that we won't be able to deliver under the current legislative paradigm.

[1:02:18] Voice 3: Yeah okay so which inherent rights is the Islands Trust acknowledging

[1:02:27] Voice 3: acknowledging with this policy statement so what i'm trying to get at is i read through this policy

[1:02:34] Voice 3: statement and i'm trying to figure out how this policy statement changes um our relationship in

[1:02:44] Voice 3: regards to referrals of obviously referrals of bylaws and how we do business right um so i think

[1:02:51] Voice 3: at that point i mean we need to understand which inherent rights we're actually acknowledging

[1:02:56] Voice 3: So,

[1:02:59] Voice 10: the initial section there speaks to Section 35, but the actual more directive policies are really talking about cooperation and engagement on those discretionary land use approvals.

[1:03:15] Voice 10: Again, acknowledging that the current legislative regime, and this is actually really not a huge deviation from what's already occurring,

[1:03:24] Voice 10: where there's there's an engagement and a process in which applications on discretionary approvals

[1:03:31] Voice 10: you'll notice that language is around discretionary approvals and just exact policy I just can't pull

[1:03:40] Voice 10: it up quickly enough but that's where sort of the rubber hits the road and that's essentially

[1:03:44] Voice 10: building off existing processes that are already happening at the LPC level. So I don't know if

[1:03:49] Voice 10: that answers your question but you know one is more speaking to those aspirational goals and

[1:03:53] Voice 10: merely acknowledging that there is these these higher uh section 35 rights um but when it gets

[1:03:59] Voice 10: down to the more uh where things are actualized um it is around those planning processes and and

[1:04:07] Voice 10: those engagement processes and also some agreements you know whether it's a protocol

[1:04:11] Voice 10: agreement whether it's a drip a drip agreement with the province that could be explored to

[1:04:16] Voice 10: better better frame up the relationship between uh trust bodies and personage

[1:04:25] Voice 3: Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, I understand this is obviously going to be a long process going through this and there's going to be lots of feedback from from trustees.

[1:04:34] Voice 3: I think we just have to acknowledge that, you know, that the indigenous portion of this trust policy statement is at the forefront.

[1:04:44] Voice 3: front. And I think we have to be sort of forward thinking and more respectful of what that

[1:04:54] Voice 3: engagement is going to look like. So I appreciate it. Thank you.

[1:05:01] Voice 3: Trustee Patrick?

[1:05:03] Trustee Patrick: Good morning, Tyler. Thank you for leading us through this conversation this morning.

[1:05:09] Trustee Patrick: my question is more on what the trust policy statement is i mean i have i understand what

[1:05:19] Trustee Patrick: it is but i always think in our role we have to explain what it is and in the staff report it

[1:05:25] Trustee Patrick: refers to it as a singular purpose but it but it appears in the next paragraph you have many other

[1:05:33] Trustee Patrick: purposes you know it guides it uh it focuses it does it does a number of things um and at present

[1:05:42] Trustee Patrick: we use it to say that our that our policy or the work that we do has to be consistent with

[1:05:48] Trustee Patrick: and we're moving to a method i've heard claire say that we're no longer going to have a checklist of

[1:05:54] Trustee Patrick: yes and no it's going to be more of a weighted kind of conversation of of you know uh balancing

[1:06:01] Trustee Patrick: and that and that then gets me to who how are we ever going to um you know to do that i think as

[1:06:09] Trustee Patrick: we do our our bylaw work at local trust committees we need to proceed with we'll have a kind of a

[1:06:17] Trustee Patrick: concept of what we're what we're doing so will local trust committees be sort of stating how

[1:06:23] Trustee Patrick: how they interpret the balance through the whether or not it's consistent and then EC confirms that

[1:06:33] Trustee Patrick: or does EC do that and I also raise an interesting point that was published in the urban systems

[1:06:41] Trustee Patrick: report back in like 2015 I think or 2016 and they acknowledge that right now all all the

[1:06:51] Trustee Patrick: islands trust does is confirm whether or not you're consistent with the trust policy statement

[1:06:57] Trustee Patrick: but they raise the possibility of an enhanced trust policy statement that could effectively

[1:07:02] Trustee Patrick: function as a high level land use plan for the entire trust area and that it could stipulate

[1:07:08] Trustee Patrick: content to be included into official community plans and that your ocp would then have a context

[1:07:14] Trustee Patrick: statement very much like a regional district would with their regional growth strategies

[1:07:18] Trustee Patrick: strategies so i i see there's sort of a common you know there's some conversation as to what are

[1:07:22] Trustee Patrick: we really trying to achieve what level of control do we want and then who and how are we going to

[1:07:28] Trustee Patrick: decide consistency yeah

[1:07:31] Voice 10: um all great questions i think and big questions and that's like

[1:07:36] Voice 10: the heart of the matter you know the legislation you know i'm quite a literal person when it comes

[1:07:41] Voice 10: to legislation it makes clear the policy statement is to implement the object of the trust

[1:07:45] Voice 10: but at least it's pretty wide open I think to how the Islands Trust and how Trust Council might view

[1:07:52] Voice 10: that. I would really probably rely here I think more on the expertise of some of the directors

[1:07:59] Voice 10: that you have employed working on your behalf just with their experience

[1:08:04] Voice 10: over time could probably speak to this better than I.

[1:08:07] Voice 9: If I could Tyler I'll just speak to it a little

[1:08:11] Voice 9: bit. I'll just take you back when the Islands Trust was created back in 1974. The original design was

[1:08:19] Voice 9: two local trustees and three general trustees and the two local trustees represented the issues of

[1:08:27] Voice 9: the island and they represented the people on those islands and the three general trustees

[1:08:33] Voice 9: appointed I believe by the province represented the larger federation as well as the

[1:08:41] Voice 9: the the province as a whole and so the five of them would make decisions for the island

[1:08:48] Voice 9: um and obviously three to two means that the uh the overall federation was considered more

[1:08:55] Voice 9: important than the the local issues that was changed in 1988 um into a system where you

[1:09:04] Voice 9: actually took over the zoning um previous to that it was like a veto power uh kind of like

[1:09:09] Voice 9: agricultural land commission so when they changed the act the province abolished the three general

[1:09:16] Voice 9: trustees and replaced it with a requirement that council as a whole adopts a policy statement

[1:09:24] Voice 9: and that policy statement represents the federation as a whole uh in the dealings of the

[1:09:29] Voice 9: local trust committees which is in their lcps and land use bylaws so i think if you just take that

[1:09:35] Voice 9: is the context for it. And then as Tyler said, the legislation is pretty wide open.

[1:09:41] Voice 9: It's really up to you as a council to interpret what you would like as a federation to apply to

[1:09:50] Voice 9: all of the local islands when they're doing the local planning. And the legislation allows you

[1:09:57] Voice 9: to do it differentially. You could have policies that apply to some islands, maybe

[1:10:04] Voice 9: be population based or other reasons uh they don't apply to other ones for whatever reason you decide

[1:10:11] Voice 9: so it's kind of like you've got carte blanche within the legislation and the only restriction

[1:10:18] Voice 9: i guess is that it's a it's an overall general policy of a trust council that has to be adhered

[1:10:26] Voice 9: to by the local trust committees and point out municipality so i'm not sure that helps but that's

[1:10:33] Voice 9: kind of my response i

[1:10:35] Voice 10: would just add i think whether um you know you see this in other

[1:10:40] Voice 10: jurisdictional frameworks as well that there can emerge attention where there's a federation and

[1:10:46] Voice 10: also decision making that happens uh at a local level you know i i think the most easy parallel

[1:10:51] Voice 10: is the regional district system electoral areas in relation to their the federative board around

[1:10:57] Voice 10: regional growth strategies those tensions at times can flare up and you

[1:11:03] Voice 10: know they they just take you know diplomacy working together trying to

[1:11:08] Voice 10: find a different what hat am I putting on to was it the hat at the Federation

[1:11:14] Voice 10: level is it that more local level and and that shifts over time but you know

[1:11:19] Voice 10: those challenges are I think sort of present and there isn't always any easy

[1:11:23] Voice 10: answers for them and so that's why you know documents can be amended sometimes

[1:11:30] Voice 10: when they're not working so I just leave that as you know it's not a not an item

[1:11:35] Voice 10: that the trust and the trust alone struggles trustee Morrison yeah and just

[1:11:46] Voice 14: one quick clarification around chairing so my understanding of chairing for the

[1:11:53] Voice 14: meeting of the whole and no criticism Tyler but just is that like trustees

[1:11:57] Voice 14: need to speak with each other as well so we don't always need responses to

[1:12:01] Voice 14: every question, but thinking of and having responses from other trustees would be exceptionally

[1:12:05] Voice 14: helpful as we engage in some of these questions.

[1:12:08] Voice 14: So and then to Trustee Maberly's comments, I would love to respond directly to that.

[1:12:14] Voice 14: So I think one of the ways that this document is framing and using the term Indigenous

[1:12:20] Voice 14: governing bodies, I think can be really helpful, actually, to address that shifting scope of

[1:12:28] Voice 14: that first nations alone aren't the only indigenous peoples in this space

[1:12:33] Voice 14: that have inherent rights and this comes down from some of the work too that's been done with

[1:12:39] Voice 14: the congress of aboriginal people in canada and so really thinking about how like what constitutes

[1:12:46] Voice 14: rights where are metis rights in this mix and so like i think it it addresses some of the nuances

[1:12:52] Voice 14: that need to be had in this conversation I do think there is a difference between

[1:13:00] Voice 14: indigenous governing bodies and any indigenous peoples in the landscape so and it doesn't mean

[1:13:06] Voice 14: that I think one is more or less relevant in the world but it's more about how governance works

[1:13:14] Voice 14: like do we work with governing bodies or do and and do they help collect and collate individual

[1:13:21] Voice 14: individual thinking and across landscape or do we prioritize individuals over governance body so I

[1:13:28] Voice 14: think that's something for us to question and think about thank you thanks trustee Morrison

[1:13:34] Voice 10: and I fully agree if uh if trustees want to engage with each other um just uh make your intention

[1:13:41] Voice 10: clear hey I have a question can staff step in or hey you know what there's a and I think trustee

[1:13:46] Voice 10: Morrison you said a good example hey I want to pick up where uh on that comment from previously

[1:13:52] Voice 10: so that's excellent trustee Elliott so

[1:13:59] Trustee Elliott: now we get into the debate I'm going to speak quietly

[1:14:02] Trustee Elliott: can everyone hear me okay so I do believe this is a strong document as a draft that upholds not

[1:14:12] Trustee Elliott: only the object of the trust but and it can help us frame how we go about that but also the

[1:14:18] Trustee Elliott: constitutional rights of all peoples including the inherent rights of First Nations. Upholding

[1:14:26] Trustee Elliott: Indigenous rights in the context of our legislation today is how we can enact environmental protection

[1:14:32] Trustee Elliott: and preservation because that's the framework that we work within. So I guess you spoke to

[1:14:40] Trustee Elliott: the point of how how we are guided in this legislative framework and i guess in my

[1:14:50] Trustee Elliott: limited experience in the last two years i've seen two examples where the minister of municipal

[1:14:55] Trustee Elliott: affairs um has been very strong in a response to in one case the development of an ocp

[1:15:04] Trustee Elliott: and the development of the conservancy's um five-year or interim plan uh the minister

[1:15:11] Trustee Elliott: response indicated that she was very strong on ensuring that Indigenous peoples have a voice

[1:15:17] Trustee Elliott: and are engaged in the development of OCPs and policies. So where there's an absence of evidence

[1:15:26] Trustee Elliott: that engagement with nations was not deep enough, the minister instructed the trust body to go back

[1:15:31] Trustee Elliott: and do that work. So basically, I see that the framework that we're working in right now

[1:15:38] Trustee Elliott: is the province is checking to ensure that we develop policies that all government bodies

[1:15:47] Trustee Elliott: develop policies that are truly in cooperation with first nations so i think this policy is

[1:15:52] Trustee Elliott: going to be no different um in canada and bc upholding indigenous rights through a preserve

[1:16:00] Trustee Elliott: and protect mandate is enshrined in our act and in the canadian constitution so if we enact policies

[1:16:07] Trustee Elliott: that contradict constitutional law, the Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, or the

[1:16:12] Trustee Elliott: Islands Trust Act, then we are out of alignment.

[1:16:15] Trustee Elliott: So those laws must all be respected and balanced and reflected in our policies.

[1:16:21] Trustee Elliott: So I guess I'm speaking to the emphasis of reconciliation and upholding Indigenous rights

[1:16:33] Trustee Elliott: you know in terms of their cultural heritage and how we consider um consider a very different

[1:16:43] Trustee Elliott: framework of decision making my question is if the enabling act that created the islands trust

[1:16:54] Trustee Elliott: originally did not include reference or allow first nations to have a voice and i understand

[1:17:02] Trustee Elliott: understand that that act was amended afterwards to include in cooperation with First Nations

[1:17:07] Trustee Elliott: along with regional districts and everyone else

[1:17:10] Voice 1: but

[1:17:11] Trustee Elliott: if they were not included in that enabling

[1:17:14] Trustee Elliott: act what is the latitude that we have I guess in respecting the limitations of the act with

[1:17:25] Trustee Elliott: its original intent and in adopting policies that are more inclusive and respectful respectful of

[1:17:33] Trustee Elliott: first nations and that align with dripa and this is why i wanted legal counsel at this meeting so

[1:17:39] Trustee Elliott: that we could ask these fundamental questions and so um i will state for the record that um

[1:17:46] Trustee Elliott: i advocated for it there was space that was going to be held for legal counsel here if we wanted to

[1:17:52] Trustee Elliott: go on camera these matters but perhaps at a later date we can do that so I just leave that question

[1:18:02] Trustee Elliott: I'm not sure if anyone can answer it but maybe we can have legal counsel at a future meeting to

[1:18:08] Trustee Elliott: start to unpack some of our limitations and also the the scope of what these policies can cover

[1:18:19] Trustee Elliott: could

[1:18:19] Voice 14: I ask a

[1:18:19] Voice 10: question oh

[1:18:21] Voice 14: go ahead yeah

[1:18:22] Voice 10: trustee Marston I

[1:18:24] Voice 14: just have a quick clarifying question

[1:18:26] Voice 14: of trustee elliott so are you are you meaning um you're using first nations are you meaning

[1:18:32] Voice 14: first nations are you meaning indigenous peoples more broadly i guess because you also used

[1:18:37] Voice 14: indigenous peoples but not indigenous governing body i would just like to understand the sort of

[1:18:42] Voice 14: clarification maybe that's the legal question that you're asking when

[1:18:45] Trustee Elliott: i was referring to first

[1:18:46] Trustee Elliott: nations um not being included in the development of the act i'm referring to the nations who hold

[1:18:56] Trustee Elliott: title, did hold title in this territorial area. Now we are moving to

[1:19:04] Trustee Elliott: recognizing First Nations because our government to government relationship is with Indigenous

[1:19:09] Trustee Elliott: governing bodies. I would say that, I think I would respect that term, Indigenous peoples

[1:19:16] Trustee Elliott: might be too broad. So in our current context, I think we're referring to Indigenous governing

[1:19:21] Trustee Elliott: running bodies.

[1:19:25] Voice 10: I see a nod in head so I will go over to Trustee Bernardo.

[1:19:30] Voice 6: Thank you. I just want

[1:19:33] Voice 6: to follow up on Trustee Elliott's comment about legal input. I guess this isn't going to meet the

[1:19:44] Voice 6: meeting when it happens but I think at some point relatively early on it's simply going to be I

[1:19:50] Voice 6: I think helpful and might cross our fingers limit what might be unnecessary debate about

[1:20:01] Voice 6: certain issues.

[1:20:03] Voice 6: If we have a legal review of the scope of where this draft trust policy statement is

[1:20:12] Voice 6: going, as Trustee Elliott pointed out, there's a pretty complex working out that has to happen

[1:20:22] Voice 6: in here between how we interpret section three of the act and what our job is to do the trust object

[1:20:30] Voice 6: and how we sort of bring that together with reconciliation and really what's the scope

[1:20:34] Voice 6: of our jurisdiction how far can we go with that and and how does that inform the trust policy

[1:20:39] Voice 6: statement uh and that's not necessarily a question of the trust trust policy statement draft being

[1:20:46] Voice 6: on side or off side it's more likely to be that it could be on the soft side or on the firmer side

[1:20:57] Voice 6: with respect to being aligned with what the legislation in general directs us to not just

[1:21:03] Voice 6: our constituting legislation but the other legislation the province has passed that

[1:21:09] Voice 6: is relevant to reconciliation so we have these big systemic type questions and

[1:21:17] Voice 6: we don't really we're not entirely clear about what the boundaries are in terms of what we're

[1:21:23] Voice 6: actually able to do with that trust policy statement and that's why i think it is going

[1:21:27] Voice 6: to be helpful at a fairly early point to to have uh the input from um from legal counsel

[1:21:34] Voice 6: how we do that i don't know if we necessarily want a written legal opinion it might be too

[1:21:38] Voice 6: early for that because this isn't a fixed document uh having a general discussion uh

[1:21:45] Voice 6: with legal counsel after they've had a chance to review it uh might be a productive way to go

[1:21:52] Voice 6: but i do second the idea that the sooner we get some input along those lines because we

[1:21:57] Voice 6: need basically guidance on those signs the better thank

[1:22:00] Voice 10: you yeah

[1:22:02] Voice 6: all

[1:22:04] Voice 10: good points and i would just

[1:22:06] Voice 10: to say that you know there has been discussions with legal counsel and attempts uh uh varying

[1:22:12] Voice 10: degrees of success to get some guidance from the province on you know how to best how to best build

[1:22:17] Voice 10: this and so it's respectful and adaptable but also rooted in you know the the pragmatism of

[1:22:26] Voice 10: limitations and what's possible and what's not under the current legislative regime um i think

[1:22:32] Voice 10: that might be a a good conversation for that last half an hour of hey you know if trustees feel like

[1:22:40] Voice 10: you know giving some feedback to the executive we would really welcome that conversation with

[1:22:44] Voice 10: legal counsel present to ask some of those questions um i would just throw that out

[1:22:48] Voice 10: there as one possible avenue that uh guidance could be achieved um trustee evans thank you

[1:22:58] Voice 16: um yeah i wanted to support i'll throw my support behind getting legal counsel into one of these

[1:23:03] Voice 16: meetings as well um i'm sure that we really should get this guidance up front um as we start down

[1:23:10] Voice 16: this process the other item that i wanted to bring up was in response to not

[1:23:26] Voice 10: sure if it's me or if

[1:23:27] Voice 10: it's trustee evans is that's okay i

[1:23:30] Voice 16: think she's frozen okay each consensus on our interpretation

[1:23:34] Voice 16: of the mandate so if we haven't

[1:23:36] Voice 10: trustee evans

[1:23:37] Voice 10: we we lost you there uh just just as you started

[1:23:42] Voice 10: Okay, so the second point,

[1:23:44] Voice 16: or the first point?

[1:23:46] Voice 10: The first point we caught, you're in support of some legal?

[1:23:49] Voice 16: Yes.

[1:23:50] Voice 10: Okay.

[1:23:51] Voice 16: So the second point that I wanted to bring up was in response to Trustee Morrison and

[1:23:56] Voice 16: Trustee Yates earlier comments regarding the interpretation of the mandate.

[1:24:04] Voice 16: My understanding was that in that meeting, we had reached a consensus as to what this

[1:24:08] Voice 16: Trust Council's interpretation of that mandate was. If that's not the case, then we have to

[1:24:14] Voice 16: absolutely go back and get that done up front, because that is an integral basis for this work

[1:24:19] Voice 16: that we're undertaking with the Trust Policy Statement. Without that, we don't have a position

[1:24:24] Voice 16: to start from. Because if we're all coming from different positions, then that's not going to

[1:24:31] Voice 16: that's not going to help us out here so i think um i'd like to see that resolution again and um

[1:24:38] Voice 16: and then also have uh an understanding either from staff as to what what what that actually was

[1:24:46] Voice 16: was that was that consensus by the trustees on the interpretation of the mandate or was that just

[1:24:52] Voice 16: consensus by the trustees on the legal interpretation of the mandate and we still

[1:24:57] Voice 16: hadn't had that conversation so i think that's that's really important to start now my third

[1:25:03] Voice 16: item so trying to get a few of them out here is i would like to be able to go through this document

[1:25:07] Voice 16: section by section at some point so we can have a an in-depth discussion on some of the changes

[1:25:12] Voice 16: that have gone through it but i don't think that's going to happen in this meeting because i don't

[1:25:15] Voice 16: think there's enough time thanks no

[1:25:19] Voice 10: worries yeah need a few meetings for that and again

[1:25:21] Voice 10: that might be valuable feedback at the executive uh that last half an hour about how might want

[1:25:26] Voice 10: want to unpack that. David Marler, I don't know if you are able or have it to just sort of answer

[1:25:35] Voice 10: that second point there around some of the interpretation and how it was viewed from a

[1:25:40] Voice 10: legislative perspective.

[1:25:43] Voice 9: Not really. That was a decision of council. So, you know, it may not be

[1:25:50] Voice 9: consensus, but it is council's decision. I'm not sure I understand the differentiation. So maybe

[1:25:56] Voice 9: that's something we can discuss offline or with the executive outside this meeting

[1:26:01] Voice 9: i don't know uh do

[1:26:03] Voice 8: you have any thoughts well i've you know just on the spot in this moment do see

[1:26:08] Voice 8: some distinctions there i think there was an exercise a necessary um legal exercise and

[1:26:14] Voice 8: discussion that um has occurred and um it seemed there seemed to be a common understanding of that

[1:26:22] Voice 8: interpretation it may be a different matter however before that is ground in the actual

[1:26:28] Voice 8: full interpretation of um section three and it's realized through the policy statement i think

[1:26:35] Voice 8: that's more involved conversation with other factors in play other than simply um the legal

[1:26:42] Voice 8: parameters that you have in place so i would anticipate that's part of the conversation going

[1:26:46] Voice 8: going forward.

[1:26:50] Voice 8: That'd be my take.

[1:26:51] Voice 8: Okay.

[1:26:56] Voice 9: Tyler?

[1:26:57] Voice 9: Did we lose Tyler?

[1:27:00] Voice 9: We might have lost Tyler.

[1:27:01] Voice 9: So I see Trustee Patrick Zander.

[1:27:05] Trustee Patrick: Oh, we're bouncing all over the place.

[1:27:07] Trustee Patrick: I just wanted to return momentarily

[1:27:09] Trustee Patrick: to the questions on reconciliation.

[1:27:15] Trustee Patrick: And there was the fact brought up

[1:27:18] Trustee Patrick: about having legal conversations,

[1:27:19] Trustee Patrick: which I agree are important.

[1:27:21] Trustee Patrick: But I think another ask

[1:27:24] Trustee Patrick: that I would probably be meandering to at some point here is I think we think we might be leading

[1:27:30] Trustee Patrick: but in some ways I went out and read a whole bunch of regional growth strategies across the province

[1:27:36] Trustee Patrick: and I think we're we're way behind a lot of them and I think there's lots of really good

[1:27:41] Trustee Patrick: examples that we should be looking to that other you know other forms of government are are using

[1:27:48] Trustee Patrick: in this area so that we can see the extent so it's not just a legal what do we do I think there's

[1:27:53] Trustee Patrick: There's lots of leaders that we can look to in language that we could look to to inspire where we're heading to.

[1:28:01] Trustee Patrick: And in particular, I think we're focusing on sort of the relationship between the island's trust and indigenous governing bodies.

[1:28:12] Trustee Patrick: I'll use the term. But another very important role I believe we have to play is it's our job to also be enhancing the relationships

[1:28:21] Trustee Patrick: relationships between Indigenous and the non-Indigenous communities. I think we really

[1:28:26] Trustee Patrick: have to play that role. It's not just us. We've got islands full of people that are living here

[1:28:32] Trustee Patrick: that we play a role on too. So I think there's a lot of language out there that we could look to

[1:28:38] Trustee Patrick: so that we can see that we're not out on some scary ledge, that we are just part of many groups

[1:28:47] Trustee Patrick: that are working together on here and toward enhancing our relationships and

[1:28:52] Trustee Patrick: we can lean on other language to just thank

[1:28:59] Voice 10: you I have a notice that it's 11

[1:29:03] Voice 10: 59 I'm just wondering if we can just wrap up not wrap up but just go to the

[1:29:08] Voice 10: last two comments here and then and then take a quick break and then we'll get

[1:29:12] Voice 10: back to it that's okay with everyone trustee Morrison I

[1:29:20] Voice 14: think it's trustee

[1:29:20] Trustee Gedye: getty first okay

[1:29:22] Voice 10: thank you trustee getty um

[1:29:25] Trustee Gedye: i think the section three mandate discussion that

[1:29:27] Trustee Gedye: we have to have is important but i think it's uh not necessarily before we have any of this i think

[1:29:34] Trustee Gedye: it's in parallel so um i think we need to to go back and clarify where there's a lot of feedback

[1:29:42] Trustee Gedye: um and editorials and and comments from the community so i think that uh yes that needs

[1:29:48] Trustee Gedye: to be done but i think that that's um something that we um we need to work up

[1:29:53] Trustee Gedye: i it hasn't we haven't reviewed um the process uh in the governance committee and i think that that

[1:30:00] Trustee Gedye: be helpful in terms of whatever mistakes were made and how we could improve and where we could

[1:30:04] Trustee Gedye: change things and clarify. But I don't want that to hold up this process.

[1:30:12] Voice 10: Trustee Morrison.

[1:30:14] Voice 14: I would echo what Trustee Getty says. So my understanding and as far as I understand,

[1:30:20] Voice 14: it's the legal understanding of going in camera with a discussion around the interpretation of

[1:30:25] Voice 14: the object is that we were examining legal decisions. This was discussed at the Trust

[1:30:29] Voice 14: Council meeting in March toward the end of the meeting. So that legal interpretation of Section

[1:30:35] Voice 14: 3, I think to Trustee Getty's point was there's no mistakes made there. That was excellent work

[1:30:41] Voice 14: and really helpful to inform our thinking on the trust policy statement. And we need to get into

[1:30:47] Voice 14: the weeds a little bit of the trust policy statement as an enactment mechanism for how

[1:30:52] Voice 14: we're taking that information from the legal decision, how we're understanding the feedback

[1:30:57] Voice 14: back from our communities, how we're understanding our obligations under DIPA, and actually

[1:31:01] Voice 14: implementing those things. So I also really appreciate the reporting at the top end from

[1:31:07] Voice 14: Director Frater, which basically names that we don't need to have a section in this trust policy

[1:31:13] Voice 14: statement that unpacks the object of the trust, because the trust policy statement is the unpacking

[1:31:18] Voice 14: of the object of the trust. Basically, that's my interpretation of Director Frater's report.

[1:31:24] Voice 14: so we don't need to get into the weeds about having a consensus vision of the object because

[1:31:30] Voice 14: the trust policy statement is our consensus vision of the object thank you okay

[1:31:37] Voice 10: um we're

[1:31:39] Voice 10: at 1101 uh so i'm going to suggest we take our our break now i see the thumbs up from chairlock

[1:31:46] Voice 10: i've got the chair's approval great uh more thumbs up so let's uh let's all take 14 minutes

[1:31:51] Voice 10: be back at 11 15 if that works for everyone um and uh we'll get back into it thanks everyone

[1:31:57] Voice 10: right 11 15 i see tiles turning on thank you everyone i'm gonna go to hopefully the tiles

[1:34:12] Voice 10: continue to turn on here but i'm going to go to uh trustee stem thank

[1:34:19] Trustee Stamford: you tyler um i'm i'm finding

[1:34:22] Trustee Stamford: this very fascinating as as we're using this new format but this is more of a commentary i'm hearing

[1:34:32] Trustee Stamford: discomfort with ambiguity and there's some of us that are more comfortable with ambiguity and some

[1:34:39] Trustee Stamford: of us that are more linear in how we see things and we keep referring back to legal counsel

[1:34:47] Trustee Stamford: and although I think legal counsel has a part in our conversations here what I keep getting back

[1:34:54] Trustee Stamford: from legal counsel is to a certain extent it's up to us to make these decisions and and we're

[1:35:02] Trustee Stamford: we're having that difficulty in in working within um a policy statement that is somewhat deliberately

[1:35:11] Trustee Stamford: vague because then we have to have those conversations and and really nail down

[1:35:17] Trustee Stamford: down how we view the policy statement within its parameters at the local level. And that's where we

[1:35:25] Trustee Stamford: have the more linear conversation and drive it into a point where it works within our regulations.

[1:35:34] Trustee Stamford: We have to start making these determinations ourselves. And then once we're at a document

[1:35:43] Trustee Stamford: that we're somewhat comfortable with not perfect then we make sure those parameters are at least

[1:35:50] Trustee Stamford: within a legal frame framework within our authority but we have to do the work first

[1:35:56] Trustee Stamford: so that's the kind of comment that's the kind of feeling i'm getting from this and i think

[1:36:00] Trustee Stamford: all aspects are valid it's just how do we move forward with that ambiguity

[1:36:04] Trustee Stamford: thank you thank

[1:36:07] Voice 10: you trustee stanford trustee fast um

[1:36:12] Trustee Fast: thank you um i'm just uh i'm going to

[1:36:17] Trustee Fast: follow up on trustee stanford and say i agree um it's why we don't have um legal staff writing

[1:36:24] Trustee Fast: planning and policy documents we get their input um but we also get input from um communities and

[1:36:33] Trustee Fast: and organizations, and people who represent those without a voice like nature.

[1:36:42] Trustee Fast: So anyway, I agree with Trustee Stamford.

[1:36:44] Trustee Fast: It's for us to take in all the different kinds of input and not just be focused on the legal.

[1:36:55] Trustee Fast: Anyway, I'll just stop there and say that's why we have professional planners.

[1:36:59] Trustee Fast: I agree, and why we have elected trustees.

[1:37:02] Trustee Fast: seas my um my uh bit that i wanted to contribute was a little more practical i really like uh the

[1:37:09] Trustee Fast: suggestion about um adding a new policy direction i'm looking at page five of the agenda um the one

[1:37:17] Trustee Fast: about um under ecosystem protection adding islets and small islands this is something that came up

[1:37:25] Trustee Fast: up on Bowen almost 20 years ago now, I think,

[1:37:29] Trustee Fast: when we did a crown lands report,

[1:37:32] Trustee Fast: a sort of inventory of what public lands did we have

[1:37:36] Trustee Fast: on Bowen Island and what were some of the features

[1:37:39] Trustee Fast: and about them and crown islets and small islands

[1:37:47] Trustee Fast: really stood out as being important to Bowen Islanders.

[1:37:53] Trustee Fast: I'm not sure about other islands.

[1:37:55] Trustee Fast: for their scenic beauty and their sense of surrounding landscape and also because they had

[1:38:09] Trustee Fast: species at risk on them like chocolate lilies and other spring wildflowers and nesting oyster

[1:38:15] Trustee Fast: catchers that couldn't be found on the main island anymore or very rarely. So they're kind of

[1:38:22] Trustee Fast: of a place for species at risk to persist partly because deer didn't use them as much either

[1:38:28] Trustee Fast: as well as dogs and all of the non-native species and also they were

[1:38:38] Trustee Fast: places that were not getting impacted as much by invasive species so they're kind of little

[1:38:44] Trustee Fast: little green oasis oases out there around our islands and um later in the meeting or right now

[1:38:53] Trustee Fast: i'd like to make a motion uh to add them ask staff ask council to ask staff to add them to the um

[1:39:02] Trustee Fast: trust policy statement would that be convenient to do that now um

[1:39:08] Voice 1: well or

[1:39:09] Trustee Fast: should we just go on

[1:39:10] Trustee Fast: i'm fine to let's just go on with discussion i'll bring it up later thank you

[1:39:13] Voice 10: okay um thank you

[1:39:16] Voice 10: trustee fest i appreciate that um um identifying that uh he might be proposing that i think is a

[1:39:24] Voice 10: good approach and um when we get a little closer i think when some questions are answered it might

[1:39:29] Voice 10: be an opportune time to to do that but uh that's when we'll shift back to uh chair luckham uh trustee

[1:39:35] Voice 10: fall yeah

[1:39:38] Voice 4: um this is a practical request just for my own processing of you know as we go through

[1:39:44] Voice 4: this is is there a black line version of the documents where you know the the current or

[1:39:52] Voice 4: you know i guess that's quotes all the way back now to 1994 policy statement versus the latest

[1:39:59] Voice 4: draft the draft that i'm presuming was presented to the first nations for their consultation

[1:40:06] Voice 4: maybe i've missed it and that's already available but i i need a i need to be pointed in the right

[1:40:11] Voice 4: direction and request that if we could have that kind of part of our process to see that as we go

[1:40:18] Voice 4: forward so i'm assuming that there's going to be sort of iterations of draft updates and it would

[1:40:25] Voice 4: be wonderful to have that and it's just personally for me i i can't get to the area very high level

[1:40:32] Voice 4: stuff unless i i'll see it kind of black and white here's what we're talking about and how it fits in

[1:40:40] Voice 4: with where we came from so that's uh that's my request thanks might

[1:40:45] Voice 10: just quickly go to claire

[1:40:47] Voice 10: um just because she's well versed in all the different iterations that have occurred

[1:40:54] Voice 10: if there's a and i'm not sure i totally understood the question so claire if you're able to jump in

[1:41:00] Voice 10: there

[1:41:01] Voice 18: is no black line version because the changes were so substantive it essentially

[1:41:05] Voice 18: emerged as unintelligible and unfollowable so as an alternative to that we may do the

[1:41:09] Voice 18: concordance tables. So you can take every policy that was in

[1:41:12] Voice 18: that July 2021 version, and track it exactly what happened

[1:41:16] Voice 18: to every policy and how is it translated into the new document.

[1:41:20] Voice 18: And at the end of that, where there was new ideas that had

[1:41:23] Voice 18: come in, we then provided a table explaining what those

[1:41:26] Voice 18: were, that was the best alternative we could give you to

[1:41:28] Voice 18: make it understandable and meaningful. So that's how we

[1:41:31] Voice 18: approached that. So I would steer you to the concordance

[1:41:34] Voice 18: tables that are posted on the 2050 page and linked from your

[1:41:38] Voice 18: agenda that was our alternative to the mess that occurred when we tried to do a black line version

[1:41:47] Voice 10: uh trustee bull and uh appreciate the effort uh for you being here thank you

[1:41:53] Voice 15: thanks i just uh

[1:41:55] Voice 15: tuned in so um i sent you some comments as you know and um i just like to say that in the context

[1:42:05] Voice 15: of the meaning of the mandate um despite the fact that we've had numerous legal opinions

[1:42:12] Voice 15: and people have agonized it and examined the entrails etc etc etc for years we are as a group

[1:42:21] Voice 15: of trustees unable to categorically agree and every term there will be this debate because the

[1:42:29] Voice 15: act is ambiguous and it is left to us to redefine over and over and over as a collective what we

[1:42:37] Voice 15: think it means. So what does that mean to the policy statement if it's actually you know a

[1:42:45] Voice 15: foundational element of the policy statement and it's you know every trustee every term the

[1:42:53] Voice 15: the trustees are at liberty to review the meaning.

[1:42:58] Voice 15: How can we write a policy statement that will stand the test of time?

[1:43:03] Voice 15: And, you know, I would say in my experience with the corporate planning,

[1:43:07] Voice 15: so far we have, you know, struggled to cut our way through

[1:43:11] Voice 15: and come up with strategic plan, goals, mission statements.

[1:43:16] Voice 15: Now we're back to the mandate again.

[1:43:19] Voice 15: again and you know all of those are fundamental building blocks and I don't believe that other

[1:43:27] Voice 15: local governments every term review and debate all of those they pick up a broad

[1:43:36] Voice 15: you know an understanding of why they're there and what they're there to do

[1:43:41] Voice 15: and they get on with projects to execute that they may prioritize or reprioritize

[1:43:47] Voice 15: and the actual work but they don't actually go back to the beginning and say why are we here

[1:43:55] Voice 15: and i find this so destructive of an erosive of our capabilities and our resources that it's quite

[1:44:04] Voice 15: depressing and i find the amount of effort that's gone into like this this trust policy update began

[1:44:12] Voice 15: in 2019 we have a 27 page document which we cannot really just go tick tick tick that makes sense

[1:44:20] Voice 15: and it's not about details like how many lampposts do we have it's about the fundamentals

[1:44:26] Voice 15: of the balance around what is the meaning of the act so I personally believe that

[1:44:34] Voice 15: if there was more evidence needed which I think there isn't this is evidence that we need an

[1:44:41] Voice 15: intervention from the province thank you justy

[1:44:49] Voice 10: bernardo thank

[1:44:50] Voice 6: you yeah i've got a somewhat

[1:44:54] Voice 6: technical question for staff about how the document is intended to work really what i'm

[1:45:01] Voice 6: thinking about here is uh the general principles on the one hand the objectives and directive

[1:45:07] Voice 6: policies and the other how are we supposed to think or uh how does staff think or you know uh

[1:45:14] Voice 6: the structure is supposed to lead trustees to think about the general guiding principles.

[1:45:21] Voice 6: There's an enormous amount of exhortation in those principles.

[1:45:26] Voice 6: And there's a lot of words there.

[1:45:28] Voice 6: I mean, there's a lot.

[1:45:32] Voice 6: Are those general principles meant to be, I don't know how to phrase this right,

[1:45:39] Voice 6: but merely encouragement to LTCs to think about going in that direction?

[1:45:43] Voice 6: or is the idea that they actually have greater weight than that,

[1:45:46] Voice 6: that they are intended in some sense to establish a framework

[1:45:50] Voice 6: for how the objective and directive policies are to be interpreted?

[1:45:58] Voice 6: And that would mean those general principles,

[1:46:01] Voice 6: are they intended to inform how we interpret

[1:46:05] Voice 6: and implement those objectives and directive principles?

[1:46:07] Voice 6: That's the question.

[1:46:11] Voice 10: that's uh yeah i i'll i'll attempt to make a an answer there but um again i would i would um

[1:46:21] Voice 10: defer or rely or welcome comments from um some of the directors at the table um just on their

[1:46:27] Voice 10: their breadth of experience and the history of the trust but guiding principles are essentially

[1:46:33] Voice 10: um meant to frame up what are we keeping top of mind as we make decisions right they're a little

[1:46:39] Voice 10: more lofty or a little less specific um for each each different body of the trust right from trust

[1:46:46] Voice 10: council uh to to the ltcs and you know the executive and the different committees of

[1:46:54] Voice 10: council uh directive policies are are aimed more more at those local decision decision-making

[1:47:03] Voice 10: tables they're slightly more specific again you know attempts made not to make them overly

[1:47:08] Voice 10: really prescriptive. But, you know, as it reads actually right in the document, you know, directive

[1:47:15] Voice 10: policies are policies that local trust committees and island municipalities must address in their

[1:47:21] Voice 10: work in local regulatory violence. So, you know, you can imagine that decisions made at those

[1:47:28] Voice 10: local levels would be evaluated against those directive policies. But then those guiding

[1:47:34] Voice 10: principles that's where the more nuance can start to enter of those conversations around okay how

[1:47:40] Voice 10: do we balance uh directive principles especially if they're at odds with each other but i would go

[1:47:45] Voice 10: to uh other staff if they have some thoughts on that as well yes

[1:47:53] Voice 18: so as we understand it and again

[1:47:54] Voice 18: you can refer with your legal counsel but guiding principles are intended to be guiding they're

[1:47:58] Voice 18: informative to your decision making and you have them in the policy statement you are currently

[1:48:04] Voice 18: working with right we have guiding principles that are meant to inform and inform your judgment

[1:48:09] Voice 18: and inform your decision making and express the values of the organization they are the guiding

[1:48:14] Voice 18: principle section is also meant to apply to more than just bylaws as you're developing your budget

[1:48:20] Voice 18: as you're undertaking advocacy as you're developing your strategic plan those are meant to be sort of

[1:48:26] Voice 18: foundational values that you go back to to take a look at to inform the other work that you do

[1:48:31] Voice 18: so they're meant to be guiding and they're meant to express your values as a group in a way that's

[1:48:37] Voice 18: different than the directive policies which are then you know translating into something that

[1:48:42] Voice 18: locally must be complied with I'd leave it there look at director of nope nothing to add okay so

[1:48:49] Voice 18: that's that staff's view of how they're meant to be applied and we would note you do have guiding

[1:48:52] Voice 18: principles in the document you've been working with since 1992.

[1:48:58] Voice 6: if I could follow up please

[1:49:01] Voice 6: Absolutely.

[1:49:04] Voice 6: I'm sorry, I'm not sure you, I don't think you've actually answered the question.

[1:49:08] Voice 6: I appreciate the guiding principles have been there in one form or another forever.

[1:49:12] Voice 6: And I appreciate that they're much more general than the directive ones.

[1:49:15] Voice 6: And in a sense, the directive ones are clearly obligatory and prescriptive.

[1:49:23] Voice 6: What I'm getting at is this.

[1:49:25] Voice 6: If an LTC interprets a directive policy in a way that goes in a different direction than what the guiding principles are talking about, would that be a basis for the executive committee to say, oh, no, no, you're going off the rails there, LTC.

[1:49:39] Voice 6: We're going to bounce this bylaw because you're not observing the guiding principle.

[1:49:43] Voice 6: That's what I'm getting at is how many, like, basically, what kind of teeth does this thing have?

[1:49:47] Voice 6: And it's important because the trust policy statement does establish the framework for advancing Section 3 of the Act, the trust object.

[1:49:55] Voice 6: It sets the framework for LTCs.

[1:49:59] Voice 6: So it's a pretty important question is, to what extent do those general principles inform the prescriptive part of the trust policy statement,

[1:50:11] Voice 6: such that a local trust committee that goes its own way in sort of interpreting the directive policies in a way that is different than the guiding principles, what happens then?

[1:50:27] Voice 6: would that be a problem for the executive committee because what turns on this is if it is

[1:50:35] Voice 6: if they are relevant and have serious weight with respect to interpretation

[1:50:42] Voice 6: then it means those general principles are going to require a lot of examination and assessment

[1:50:47] Voice 6: thank you thanks

[1:50:50] Voice 10: yeah thank you for that clarity i'll go to uh director marler here but i think in

[1:50:55] Voice 10: In essence, yes, there would be interpretation there

[1:51:00] Voice 10: that the executive could exercise if they chose.

[1:51:02] Voice 10: Director Mulharley?

[1:51:04] Voice 9: Yeah, so as stated earlier, and I think in the document,

[1:51:08] Voice 9: the document is to be read as a whole,

[1:51:10] Voice 9: and that is how legally you would look at it anyway.

[1:51:14] Voice 9: And the directive policies have been couched

[1:51:17] Voice 9: under the objectives of the goals.

[1:51:21] Voice 9: So, yeah, you would probably want to use those goals

[1:51:24] Voice 9: as part of your interpretation so the owner of the policy is trust counsel so how that policy

[1:51:31] Voice 9: is interpreted is up to trust counsel and through the legislative requirement for ec approving by

[1:51:38] Voice 9: laws ec will be doing that on behalf of counsel so there is a difference between a local trust

[1:51:44] Voice 9: committee's interpretation and trust counsels through the executive committee then trust

[1:51:49] Voice 9: councils would actually prevail that is you could say to the local trust committee we don't believe

[1:51:54] Voice 9: that that's the correct interpretation here's the reasons why and these are changes that you need to

[1:51:59] Voice 9: make so uh and i think you can go back to all of trust council if there's a disagreement yeah

[1:52:05] Voice 9: exactly yeah and sorry russ was just saying under the legislation if the local trust committee

[1:52:11] Voice 9: disagrees with the executive committee they can appeal to the full trust council and then trust

[1:52:17] Voice 9: Does council have that debate as 26 trustees sitting at the table?

[1:52:21] Voice 9: And then I think Clare wanted to mention the interpretation policy.

[1:52:26] Voice 9: So I'll pass that over to Clare.

[1:52:29] Voice 18: Generally, this is within your scope.

[1:52:31] Voice 18: You have an implementation policy.

[1:52:33] Voice 18: You can provide some language in there, providing guidance around this interpretation matter,

[1:52:38] Voice 18: to what extent and weight it's meant to have for the executive committee and council as they review it.

[1:52:43] Voice 18: so that as we noted earlier we haven't gone too deeply into some of those matters for you and we

[1:52:48] Voice 18: certainly can until we sort of you know got a read of the room here to see do you even like the

[1:52:53] Voice 18: structure do you want this this type of document but we can come back to you with more detail and

[1:52:58] Voice 18: thought and rigor around that in a future time trustee

[1:53:07] Voice 10: patrick is

[1:53:11] Trustee Patrick: it appropriate now to ask

[1:53:12] Trustee Patrick: about specific policies or are we still at the general level i don't want to dive into the

[1:53:17] Trustee Patrick: specifics if we're not ready to go there um

[1:53:20] Voice 10: yeah if there's other hands that maybe are on this

[1:53:24] Voice 10: topic it might make sense to sort of shift to those uh i'd like to speak

[1:53:28] Trustee Elliott: to the current topic

[1:53:29] Voice 10: and then we possibly but trustee factor because that's okay i

[1:53:33] Trustee Elliott: will hold off thank you

[1:53:34] Voice 10: okay trustee

[1:53:35] Voice 10: morrison you're next on my list by yeah

[1:53:39] Voice 14: i just have a quick question too or and i think it's for

[1:53:42] Voice 14: trustees as opposed to staff. But when we look at the implementation to this implementation question,

[1:53:49] Voice 14: when we look at the implementation policies, all the directive policies are really saying

[1:53:55] Voice 14: shall, most of them, but there's some cleanup there potentially, but are saying shall,

[1:54:00] Voice 14: LTC shall or municipalities. But when we look at the implementation, it's unclear that if an LTC

[1:54:08] Voice 14: doesn't implement a bylaw to address one portion of the trust policy statement is that

[1:54:18] Voice 14: compliance with the trust policy statement because like I can say anything that I do

[1:54:23] Voice 14: create at my local LTC has to meet the policy statement but what if I just am silent on a

[1:54:30] Voice 14: bunch of areas am I and am I meeting and so I don't know where that sits in here or how we

[1:54:36] Voice 14: name that? So that's just a bit of a question.

[1:54:42] Voice 10: I see some hands up going up there, but

[1:54:45] Voice 10: Trustee Elliott.

[1:54:49] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, that's a great question. So back to that point of the guiding policy or

[1:54:56] Trustee Elliott: principles, I guess, when I look at 2.2 cooperation principles, which is mentioned in the act,

[1:55:04] Trustee Elliott: Act, it would be really hard to legislate or create a directive policy that specifies exactly

[1:55:14] Trustee Elliott: what cooperation looks like. So if cooperation is a value that we hold, which is enforced in the

[1:55:22] Trustee Elliott: Act that we must do, but how do you cooperate with Islands Trust Conservancy Board? How do we

[1:55:30] Trustee Elliott: We cooperate with Indigenous governing bodies, interagency coordination, so I can see how

[1:55:36] Trustee Elliott: a set of guiding principles is useful, and I think it was really helpful to the statement

[1:55:44] Trustee Elliott: that these are values that we hold, and how we implement them is guided by policy, but

[1:55:51] Trustee Elliott: it's not a directive, you must do this, right?

[1:55:56] Trustee Elliott: It's more interpretive.

[1:55:57] Trustee Elliott: And so I'm starting to appreciate the distinction there.

[1:56:01] Trustee Elliott: Thank you for the debate and raising that point.

[1:56:06] Voice 10: Trustee Stanford.

[1:56:08] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you.

[1:56:09] Trustee Stamford: To the issue of being silent on certain aspects of the policy statement at the local level.

[1:56:19] Trustee Stamford: And a good example has always been for the Gambier local area is we do not have the same requirements for housing.

[1:56:30] Trustee Stamford: Even though that is a big part of Trust Council right now, it is an important aspect of Trust Council.

[1:56:38] Trustee Stamford: But apart from very much the required provincial government asks for OCPs, we are almost completely silent on housing.

[1:56:49] Trustee Stamford: So I want to sort of be able to know that we can keep it that way, or how much are we forced to provide much more policy guidance within our OCPs, LUBs on that topic, given its priority in the policy statement.

[1:57:11] Voice 10: if i may just and again we've we've actually had this conversation kind of at the staff level as

[1:57:18] Voice 10: we were as we were working you know working through it and um claire david if i missed

[1:57:24] Voice 10: the mark here please interrupt me and correct but in say the the case of being silent on a

[1:57:31] Voice 10: particular topic uh or the inclusion really it's around um is that decision reasonable and

[1:57:39] Voice 10: justifiable and you know that's ultimately a case that's going to be made on like an individual

[1:57:44] Voice 10: application but also on these these larger policy documents so in the gambier example

[1:57:49] Voice 10: um okay there's some there's some directive policies in there uh around housing but they

[1:57:56] Voice 10: actually really don't make a lot of sense or you can imagine industrial lands might be another one

[1:58:00] Voice 10: right where it's um for whatever the particular use case is the context it doesn't make sense

[1:58:08] Voice 10: that would be and that's sort of where Claire was indicating getting away from just the black

[1:58:12] Voice 10: and white checklist yes it meets this directive or not the LTC and the planning staff would have

[1:58:18] Voice 10: the ability to say well it doesn't meet you know as written doesn't meet this particular directive

[1:58:24] Voice 10: but these are the reasons why we believe it's justified and then the executive would make a

[1:58:30] Voice 10: determination uh based on uh their read of the poll uh you know the policy statement document

[1:58:37] Voice 10: and if there is that conflict there as highlighted you know the appeal mechanism is to trust council

[1:58:42] Voice 10: as a whole to make the determining uh determining decision claire david i don't know if you wanted

[1:58:48] Voice 10: to add in anything on that no

[1:58:56] Voice 8: no that's okay water okay

[1:58:59] Voice 10: uh trustee peterson uh

[1:59:05] Voice 24: thank you so um just

[1:59:07] Voice 24: Just my first remarks would be that I really actually appreciate from a structural point of view that this version has the directive policies grouped together.

[1:59:20] Voice 24: I think it's easier to read.

[1:59:24] Voice 24: I did spend some time with the previous version going and extracting all those directive policies to make it easier for folks to read back in the day.

[1:59:36] Voice 24: So I appreciate that change. I just wanted to identify that. But on the sort of, it's really on the topic that has just been discussed by Trustee Morrison and Trustee Stamford, some of the, like in particular, I'll use the example of Directive Policy 3.4.13.

[2:00:00] Voice 24: uh which is public and active transportation networks and so local trust committees and

[2:00:06] Voice 24: municipalities shall identify and establish appropriately situated so the established part

[2:00:14] Voice 24: is is um it that's pretty directive and uh so i just i have a little bit of concern around

[2:00:25] Voice 24: something that's so specific to take a specific action obviously it would be an

[2:00:31] Voice 24: issue with an OCPR and LUB update but I think that's just the one example

[2:00:37] Voice 24: there's a few instances of establish and certainly I think in some islands that

[2:00:44] Voice 24: may not be appropriate so just wanted to flag that particular example in terms of

[2:00:51] Voice 24: of the directive policies and the prescriptiveness

[2:00:55] Voice 24: of the language there.

[2:01:00] Voice 10: Tristi Evans.

[2:01:01] Voice 10: Thank you.

[2:01:03] Voice 16: I'm gonna say something quite similar.

[2:01:05] Voice 16: The usage of the word shall on the nine pages

[2:01:08] Voice 16: of the objectives and directive policies

[2:01:11] Voice 16: do not allow for any, you shall do these legally.

[2:01:15] Voice 16: This is our document that dictates

[2:01:20] Voice 16: how as a federated group of islands,

[2:01:23] Voice 16: we operate the use of the word shall does not leave any legal wiggle room you have to do this

[2:01:30] Voice 16: whether you whether it's appropriate or not you have to do it it's directed so i would caution

[2:01:35] Voice 16: against using the word shall so much and have it apply to nine pages um that's like having dealt

[2:01:46] Voice 16: with uh contracts and stuff in the past um that's just my caution so if you want to have things

[2:01:54] Voice 16: where it permits some of these directive policies

[2:02:00] Voice 16: to be used appropriately,

[2:02:01] Voice 16: let's use language that reflects it.

[2:02:05] Voice 16: Thanks.

[2:02:08] Voice 1: Chair, you're welcome.

[2:02:13] Voice 1: You were muted, sir.

[2:02:21] Trustee Luckham: So thank you, Tyler.

[2:02:24] Trustee Luckham: Speaking as a trustee,

[2:02:27] Trustee Luckham: I'm excited actually that we've talked about,

[2:02:30] Trustee Luckham: we're talking here now a little bit,

[2:02:31] Trustee Luckham: we're drifting into implementation.

[2:02:33] Trustee Luckham: implementation and that is really where the rubber hits the road and I'm and in fact we need to have

[2:02:40] Trustee Luckham: a lot more conversation about implementation of a policy statement and of the directors

[2:02:45] Trustee Luckham: as we move along and as we decide what the characteristics are of the guiding principles

[2:02:51] Trustee Luckham: documents and having reviewed a number of bylaws over the years whether or not they do or do not

[2:02:59] Trustee Luckham: meet the policy statement. The tools that are available to us is the policy statement checklist,

[2:03:05] Trustee Luckham: right? Where you go through that box and you tick off all the things and you, and essentially that

[2:03:10] Trustee Luckham: list for me, and I think the important part of any of this, whether you're silent on something,

[2:03:16] Trustee Luckham: whether this you approve or don't approve of a particular directive, is that you've turned

[2:03:22] Trustee Luckham: your minds to it. And so the reporting out and the conversation at the LTC, for me, I often ask

[2:03:29] Trustee Luckham: the question has the ltc turned their mind to this and then is it obvious what the conclusion

[2:03:36] Trustee Luckham: was from the ltc with respect to any given topic and um so i'm excited that we're talking about

[2:03:44] Trustee Luckham: that implementation we do need to do that and it's multi-stepped here we need to determine what the

[2:03:50] Trustee Luckham: principles are and then determine how it is we're going to measure um the implementation of those

[2:03:55] Trustee Luckham: things because uh and trust trustee evans brought us back to that point it is about the shalls and

[2:04:01] Trustee Luckham: the shoulds and um and where is it that the overarching principles of the preserve and

[2:04:07] Trustee Luckham: protect mandate really come to rest so good work everybody let's continue trustee middleton

[2:04:19] Trustee Middleton: thank you um i this document very strongly speaks to uh cool governance both um as an aspiration

[2:04:28] Trustee Middleton: operation and as a working reality. And I'm wondering if that's one of the reasons some

[2:04:35] Trustee Middleton: trustees are seeking to reach for lawyers in terms of a review of this document. I think it's probably

[2:04:41] Trustee Middleton: something that needs to be discussed because I would say that the co-governance is so prominently

[2:04:47] Trustee Middleton: outlined in this document that the hand has effectively been shown, certainly insofar as

[2:04:52] Trustee Middleton: the document has been given to first nations for some months now and i don't think uh getting a

[2:04:58] Trustee Middleton: legal review and having a lawyer say to us oh yeah great idea but you can't do it guys it's it's not

[2:05:03] Trustee Middleton: in your it's not in your legislation i don't think that's going to fly i think uh we obviously are

[2:05:10] Trustee Middleton: ahead of the law in some ways when you set policy and i'm just wondering what people's uh thoughts

[2:05:16] Trustee Middleton: are in terms of co-governance it's um as i say it's very prominently featured in this document

[2:05:23] Trustee Middleton: the only reference to it has sort of been skirted around with a request for lawyers but

[2:05:28] Trustee Middleton: from a philosophical aspirational values whatever perspective you want where are people at on this

[2:05:34] Trustee Middleton: where what do you think is this something we can get behind thanks thank

[2:05:41] Voice 10: you um trustee yates

[2:05:43] Voice 10: oh

[2:05:45] Voice 11: thank you tyler um just reflecting back on uh trustee evans comments about shells

[2:05:53] Voice 11: I actually I think a bit differently on that. I think this is a bylaw. This is a bylaw that guides our decision making at the local level and the council level.

[2:06:05] Voice 11: And if we have directives that we feel are valuable and necessary, then I think they should be accompanied by unambiguous language like shall. Thank you.

[2:06:22] Voice 4: Okay, I have trustee for.

[2:06:25] Voice 32: Yeah. And I just sort of wanted to, you know, talk to what Trustee Middleton was saying there, because, you know, a big part of reading through the binder that I got was going through the Indigenous governing bodies' responses to various lines in here.

[2:06:46] Voice 32: And yeah, I mean, we've pretty clearly got the message that, well, co-governance is currently out of scope.

[2:06:53] Voice 32: And I absolutely would like to move towards co-governance to answer Trustee Middleton directly.

[2:07:02] Voice 32: I think that's a really important part of colonizing the systems within which we exist already.

[2:07:09] Voice 32: already. I, you know, I think there's a lot of big questions, obviously, that need to be asked

[2:07:15] Voice 32: at a level higher than our own. And the legislative structure that we exist within

[2:07:20] Voice 32: is predicated on law that is based on some, some weird old things. And we are all here as

[2:07:26] Voice 32: artifacts of colonialism. But, you know, I think that needn't, that needn't be a barrier for us

[2:07:37] Voice 32: to advocate for that for for co-governance and prepare for co-governance um and and to you know

[2:07:44] Voice 32: to ask our provincial overseers to to prioritize that as part of this this moving forward and it

[2:07:50] Voice 32: to me it's that's something that's important and obviously there will be different different

[2:07:53] Voice 32: opinions in this group um but i think if we if we can be laying the groundwork for that i think

[2:07:59] Voice 32: it certainly to me it would be important to have that embedded in this document and have us ready

[2:08:03] Voice 32: to go to move towards those things and obviously it's a long road there's a lot of stuff that will

[2:08:08] Voice 32: have to be figured out about how that will work um but being unambiguous about that intention i

[2:08:13] Voice 32: think is important and i appreciate uh trustee middleton sort of posing the question directly

[2:08:18] Voice 32: thank

[2:08:21] Voice 10: you i have um trustee evans and trustee peterson i'm just trying to be mindful of the

[2:08:25] Voice 10: time and the executive's desire to carve out the last portion of the meeting just to talk about

[2:08:30] Voice 10: process moving forward um i see trustee bernardo so i think if we can draw the line there with

[2:08:37] Voice 10: respect to the content um i've got a few notes i can just kind of highlight maybe the summit where

[2:08:43] Voice 10: that some of that discussion went and and just provide it before we move into that next half

[2:08:48] Voice 10: hour for you to figure out how you might want to move through the uh the content further i'll do

[2:08:54] Voice 10: do so so we'll just go to the uh i see trustee scott and i don't think they've spoken either so

[2:09:00] Voice 10: we have 10 minutes if we can keep it uh as brief just to try to respect some of those first time

[2:09:05] Voice 10: speakers trustee evans thank

[2:09:08] Voice 16: you i'll be quick yeah i would very much like to have a legal opinion

[2:09:13] Voice 16: come in regarding first nations um i'd like to understand um where we are sitting uh as far as

[2:09:20] Voice 16: where the federal and the provincial government are on these issues and how we fit in to the

[2:09:27] Voice 16: direction that they're wanting to go in. So very much would like to get legal opinion in. And

[2:09:34] Voice 16: going back to the shells, there are other words like must that are also very strong.

[2:09:40] Voice 16: And I would like to caution that we take the time to go through each of these

[2:09:45] Voice 16: objectives and directives to make sure that the shells, when they use the shells,

[2:09:49] Voice 16: because that is so legally binding that they're applicable must be used where musts are appropriate

[2:09:55] Voice 16: because if there may be a little bit of areas where it may not be as applicable to every single

[2:10:01] Voice 16: island in every single situation so that's sort of getting into the weeds of things and i think

[2:10:07] Voice 16: we can get into those discussions later i'm just raising it as far as making sure that when we do

[2:10:14] Voice 16: have these very strong legally binding words that they are appropriate using must which is also a

[2:10:20] Voice 16: very strong but not as binding a word so that's that's sort of where i get into thank you thank

[2:10:28] Voice 10: you trustee peterson uh

[2:10:31] Voice 24: perfect back into the shells from me i think that um if directive

[2:10:37] Voice 24: policies are to be directive then then shall might be very important but i think when we say

[2:10:44] Voice 24: shall consider it's different than shall identify or shall establish and so i just wanted to point

[2:10:53] Voice 24: that that what follows the shall is is quite important in terms of how prescriptive um

[2:11:00] Voice 24: any of those directives might be uh as far as the uh the question around co-governance um

[2:11:07] Voice 24: Um, I, I think, I hope that it's the way, the way of the future.

[2:11:12] Voice 24: Um, clearly we have, and I know staff has, um, highlighted that the fact that, that,

[2:11:19] Voice 24: uh, it's to have made it clear to first nations and indigenous governing bodies, um, the limits

[2:11:27] Voice 24: are legislative limits.

[2:11:28] Voice 24: And, and so there is that, that, um, that reality.

[2:11:33] Voice 24: And I think it's really important that we're clear on what we can and can't do both, both

[2:11:37] Voice 24: for ourselves and in our communications um with those indigenous uh governing bodies

[2:11:43] Voice 24: first nations individuals it's really important to know and be clear about what you know what

[2:11:49] Voice 24: what what are our legislative limitations um so that's just really up front thank you trustee

[2:11:59] Voice 10: peterson uh trustee bernardo i'll

[2:12:02] Voice 6: try to be quick here um uh i want to address uh trustee

[2:12:05] Voice 6: Middleton's um a comment um uh full governance is a concept that's discussed in the brand general

[2:12:11] Voice 6: principles in my recollection while the directive policies uh are limited to talking about engagement

[2:12:17] Voice 6: and requiring uh engagement with First Nations so this harkens back to my question about

[2:12:24] Voice 6: interpretation because I think a lot turns on it uh the the directive policy that directs

[2:12:30] Voice 6: engagement that's a clear obligation under existing provincial law anyhow and and also

[2:12:35] Voice 6: provincial guidance that we get from the minister but the fact is under the current legislation the

[2:12:40] Voice 6: staff's been clear about this we don't have the jurisdiction to enter into co-government

[2:12:44] Voice 6: co-governance arrangements at this stage that would require provincial legislation and leadership on

[2:12:50] Voice 6: their part to set the stage for that so i worry a little that the way the draft is prepared at

[2:12:58] Voice 6: this stage uh risks setting us up setting ltcs up to put them in a potential bind because if

[2:13:04] Voice 6: If the general principles are intended indeed to be clear guidance on how one is to apply

[2:13:11] Voice 6: the directive policies, then that means the encouragement to advance co-governance in

[2:13:20] Voice 6: the general principles is meant to inform what engagement looks like.

[2:13:25] Voice 6: It conditions what engagement is supposed to be looking like.

[2:13:28] Voice 6: so we have a legal obligation and moral obligation to engage in engagement but to then take the next

[2:13:36] Voice 6: step to say engagement should be directed towards developing some sort of co-governance it's

[2:13:41] Voice 6: directing us to do something that we don't actually have the jurisdiction at this point to do

[2:13:45] Voice 6: so I worry about that putting the LTCs in a kind of a bind that's all I have to say about that at

[2:13:52] Voice 6: this point. Thank you. Thank you, Trustee Bernardo. Trustee Stanford.

[2:13:57] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you. I just want to

[2:14:00] Trustee Stamford: conclude the conversation for me in that this is a far more readable document. Over the 12 years

[2:14:09] Trustee Stamford: since 2014 that it's been on our Trust Council table, this is the most coherent

[2:14:16] Trustee Stamford: coherent uh approach to uh reviewing and redoing the policy statement um but in that light there's

[2:14:24] Trustee Stamford: a part that doesn't i have a question about and that is uh pages 15 to 18 or 19 where we have the

[2:14:32] Trustee Stamford: three external tables of language from uh truth and reconciliation commission undrip and the

[2:14:39] Trustee Stamford: the National Inquiry for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, really important

[2:14:46] Trustee Stamford: parts of those foundational documents that are hugely influential throughout British Columbia.

[2:14:55] Trustee Stamford: I'm not sure how exactly verbatim, putting those particular points in verbatim is appropriate

[2:15:04] Trustee Stamford: within our document, and if the Trust Council decides that it is important to have those as

[2:15:13] Trustee Stamford: part of the overall document, then I would consider looking at also the UN 17 Goals for

[2:15:20] Trustee Stamford: Sustainable Development and other such foundational approaches to governance in the province. So,

[2:15:29] Trustee Stamford: I just want to put it out there. I'm not wedded to anything, yes or no, but that is the part

[2:15:34] Trustee Stamford: that I felt didn't really flow

[2:15:37] Trustee Stamford: in an overall well-balanced document.

[2:15:40] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[2:15:42] Voice 10: Thanks, Trustee Stamford.

[2:15:43] Voice 10: And I'll go to Trustee Scott here,

[2:15:44] Voice 10: but I'll just briefly say,

[2:15:45] Voice 10: you can note in the report, Claire,

[2:15:50] Voice 10: from Claire on your agenda,

[2:15:51] Voice 10: where it kind of highlights that as a section

[2:15:54] Voice 10: that for trustees to engage with

[2:15:56] Voice 10: and maybe chew on the approach.

[2:15:58] Voice 10: What's attempted to be here

[2:15:59] Voice 10: is kind of capture some of those principles,

[2:16:01] Voice 10: also capture a little bit of that feedback

[2:16:03] Voice 10: from First Nations on those.

[2:16:07] Voice 10: that's not to say that there isn't likely a better way of doing that whether it's

[2:16:12] Voice 10: developing a second a secondary framework that would allow some deeper engagement just on those

[2:16:18] Voice 10: principles and a little bit of co-creation you know I'm just sort of spitballing here in the

[2:16:22] Voice 10: moment but you can imagine that the policy statement could capture those principles and

[2:16:27] Voice 10: set up another process that can be and just very

[2:16:31] Trustee Stamford: quickly just to finalize that

[2:16:34] Trustee Stamford: But I'm not against those principles per se,

[2:16:37] Trustee Stamford: and I think reference can be made to them in a shorter form.

[2:16:40] Trustee Stamford: But yes, I would just like to see further discussion

[2:16:43] Trustee Stamford: about that particular aspect of the document.

[2:16:47] Voice 10: Absolutely.

[2:16:48] Voice 10: Trustee Scott and Trustee Yates,

[2:16:50] Voice 10: and we'll close this section of the committee meeting.

[2:16:55] Voice 13: Thank you.

[2:16:56] Voice 13: I think it's good to have those pages 16 and 17 in here,

[2:17:01] Voice 13: or 15 to 17, just to remind us of that.

[2:17:04] Voice 13: I mean I agree I don't think they might they might not be there in the final policy statement but to

[2:17:10] Voice 13: keep them here now while we're doing this work on the earlier page 14 there council's cooperation

[2:17:18] Voice 13: principles I think we should always have First Nations governance anything to do with First

[2:17:24] Voice 13: Nations should be first I think it's just a respect thing it should be up above the collaborate

[2:17:30] Voice 13: collaborate with the islands trust conservancy board not as and that's a very minor point but

[2:17:36] Voice 13: i think just to be consistent the the other thing um i'm concerned about how much we go and seek

[2:17:45] Voice 13: legal advice or going to the province for direction because the idea is to get this

[2:17:51] Voice 13: thing done by 2026 or we'll go into a new term and we go into a new term probably half the

[2:17:58] Voice 13: the trustees will be elected, it becomes endless again.

[2:18:05] Voice 13: So I don't know whether at this stage going to the province is the right idea.

[2:18:09] Voice 13: It does end up going to the province.

[2:18:11] Voice 13: So at this stage, I'd just like to keep us getting this draft together,

[2:18:16] Voice 13: which then we can send to the province rather than sending it too soon.

[2:18:22] Voice 13: So the only other thing is I fully support Sue Allen Fast

[2:18:26] Voice 13: on the thing about the the islets and it's it's mentioned in the importance of islets it's it's

[2:18:34] Voice 13: mentioned on page five in here and it's absolutely critical there's so many islets around hornby and

[2:18:39] Voice 13: over at luskeety that just have so many values just as she well pointed that out so thank you

[2:18:46] Voice 13: very much i'll just leave that there for now thank

[2:18:50] Voice 10: you trustee scott um i did say trustee

[2:18:52] Voice 10: Yates would be the last word on this and I will provide you my quick reflections on some of the

[2:18:58] Voice 10: comments just to maybe help assist your next half an hour with Chair Luckham back in the helm

[2:19:02] Voice 10: around the executive hearing from how you may want to unpack this going forward Trustee Yates.

[2:19:11] Voice 11: Oh thank you so much and thank you so much Trustee Scott for this most recent comment about legal

[2:19:17] Voice 11: Council because I was going to reflect back on the earlier comments by Trustee

[2:19:24] Voice 11: Stamford about not seeking a legal opinion now this is our job to do this

[2:19:31] Voice 11: work now ourselves and please keep in mind we have a budget that was approved

[2:19:36] Voice 11: for legal advice and counsel and we need that budget to be there when we really

[2:19:42] Voice 11: need the legal advice for local trust committees and for council and at some

[2:19:49] Voice 11: point this probably will get legal counsel but now this is our job to work

[2:19:53] Voice 11: through this thank you thank

[2:19:57] Voice 10: you trustee gates um yeah thank you everyone it's

[2:20:01] Voice 10: amazing how quickly the time can go by once the conversation gets going and I

[2:20:05] Voice 10: think there was some big questions asked that definitely need working through but

[2:20:10] Voice 10: also hearing you that you know we just simply didn't have the time to go

[2:20:13] Voice 10: through the specifics and I apologize Trustee Patrick I didn't loop back to you and you had one

[2:20:20] Voice 10: that you did want to speak to so my apologies on that. Yes the next half an hour the executive

[2:20:29] Voice 10: staff had brought a report to the executive on how some of this content might be tackled

[2:20:36] Voice 10: and the executive wanted to hear from trust counsel on just their thoughts about what

[2:20:44] Voice 10: what is needed, what are preferences on the type of information that you'd want at the meetings,

[2:20:52] Voice 10: how the meetings are held, the frequency, one big one, shorter ones, you know, you can imagine,

[2:20:58] Voice 10: you know, you can slice this different ways. What I did here today was a little bit,

[2:21:03] Voice 10: that there's a desire to go through section by section and be able to spend the time, whether

[2:21:10] Voice 10: it's on the directives and the shells and the shoulds and the musts and and diving into those

[2:21:15] Voice 10: a little deeper or the uh the first guiding principles or even sessions on how guiding

[2:21:20] Voice 10: principles relate to uh directives and that framework and what it might look like um

[2:21:27] Voice 10: i also heard some sentiment around some of those other questions the trust council has been

[2:21:34] Voice 10: engaged with and wrestling with and the idea that the policy statement as a process and as

[2:21:39] Voice 10: a document might actually answer some of that and or help answer that or help provide clarity

[2:21:46] Voice 10: uh and finally you know a little bit mixed but there is some desire for legal um legal advice

[2:21:54] Voice 10: i would just put forward that doesn't necessarily mean a full legal review of the document

[2:21:58] Voice 10: it could just be simply having legal counsel available to answer some of these questions

[2:22:04] Voice 10: to help trust counsel shape the documents and help trustees think about the document

[2:22:11] Voice 10: That would be a very different process, I think, than taking a document to them and asking them to do a full legal review.

[2:22:17] Voice 10: So I present my reflections to you on some of those themes that I picked up on in the conversation that are less content dependent and more about process.

[2:22:29] Voice 10: And so I would turn it over to Chair Luckum with thanks to you all, because I think this has been very useful from my perspective and I imagine staff's perspective.

[2:22:36] Voice 10: and I hope it's been useful for all of you

[2:22:38] Voice 10: as you think about how you want to work together as a group

[2:22:43] Voice 10: to ask some more big questions

[2:22:45] Voice 10: and try to get to a place

[2:22:47] Voice 10: where you're moving the document forward.

[2:22:49] Voice 10: Thank you.

[2:23:00] Voice 10: Chair Luckom, you are muted, though.

[2:23:04] Voice 7: Sorry, Peter.

[2:23:08] Trustee Luckham: They're muting you now.

[2:23:10] Trustee Luckham: Anyway, so yeah, sorry.

[2:23:12] Trustee Luckham: I guess the host is muting me there.

[2:23:14] Trustee Luckham: there. Anyway, thank you. So, thank you, Tyler, for the conversation. Certainly, we could all use

[2:23:21] Trustee Luckham: more time to dig deeper here, but this was a first stab at this and a high-level view. The report

[2:23:29] Trustee Luckham: that's at 4.1.2 certainly lays out some options for us, and Tyler has summarized some of the

[2:23:37] Trustee Luckham: highlights there. I have my own notes here that simply ask the questions of you. Next meeting,

[2:23:46] Trustee Luckham: when is that and what should the topic be? And then should we be having regular meeting schedule

[2:23:53] Trustee Luckham: here? Is that weekly or bi-weekly? What happens when we get through the summer and coming out in

[2:24:01] Trustee Luckham: in September. And then what options would you like to offer executive committee to help

[2:24:08] Trustee Luckham: steward this process, advancing it forward? Certainly, there's a number of folks that

[2:24:16] Trustee Luckham: want to hear something about legal opinion. And I certainly think there's an opportunity to inform

[2:24:22] Trustee Luckham: us to determine how deep we want to go there, because there's obviously different points of

[2:24:26] Trustee Luckham: view on that as well so um we're this body can make recommendations to council um we can to some

[2:24:36] Trustee Luckham: extent provide direction to executive committee and staff um uh but anyway recommendations to

[2:24:42] Trustee Luckham: council which would then be the merits of the question would be debated at council and so i

[2:24:48] Trustee Luckham: think any recommendations to council are questions that you ultimately want to ask yourselves in in

[2:24:54] Trustee Luckham: in a formal decision-making forum.

[2:24:55] Trustee Luckham: So let's go to Trustee Patrick.

[2:25:00] Trustee Patrick: I'm not trying to move things along,

[2:25:01] Trustee Patrick: but I did submit a motion on a request for more information

[2:25:05] Trustee Patrick: related to a conversation I had earlier.

[2:25:08] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:25:11] Trustee Patrick: So I can

[2:25:12] Trustee Patrick: either read it or I don't know.

[2:25:15] Trustee Luckham: Let's kick it off.

[2:25:17] Trustee Luckham: Look

[2:25:17] Trustee Patrick: at that, he's on it.

[2:25:21] Trustee Patrick: I'll just make the motion and I can see where it goes.

[2:25:23] Trustee Patrick: I move that the Committee of the Whole

[2:25:26] Trustee Patrick: recommend that Trust Council request staff to provide a staff briefing that presents examples

[2:25:30] Trustee Patrick: from other jurisdictions, for example, regional growth strategies, goals, objectives, policies,

[2:25:35] Trustee Patrick: and indicators related to relations with Indigenous governing bodies.

[2:25:40] Trustee Luckham: All right. Thank you very much

[2:25:42] Trustee Luckham: for the preparation there. So I see Trustee Peterson has seconded the motion. So do you

[2:25:47] Trustee Luckham: wish to speak to your motion?

[2:25:48] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, I'm not looking. This is just a briefing. I'm not looking

[2:25:51] Trustee Patrick: for an exhaustive search. I think there's some good examples out there that will help give

[2:25:55] Trustee Patrick: give us indication that we're not just leaders,

[2:26:00] Trustee Patrick: that there's others out there that are ahead of us.

[2:26:03] Trustee Patrick: And I think it would give people comfort

[2:26:04] Trustee Patrick: because that part of our job

[2:26:05] Trustee Patrick: is to also talk to the community

[2:26:07] Trustee Patrick: and let them understand

[2:26:08] Trustee Patrick: that this is happening across British Columbia.

[2:26:12] Trustee Luckham: All right. Thank you.

[2:26:15] Trustee Luckham: Any other wish to speak to the motion here?

[2:26:23] Trustee Luckham: Okay. There's Sue Ellen Fast.

[2:26:26] Trustee Fast: Yes. Thank you, Chair.

[2:26:27] Trustee Fast: I'm in support of this motion.

[2:26:29] Trustee Fast: I think that there are lots of regional governments doing, sorry, local governments of all kinds doing work in this area. And I think it would be really helpful for all trustees to take a look at lots of examples.

[2:26:50] Trustee Fast: examples. And so to have some that are picked out would be really helpful. I think a lot of times

[2:26:56] Trustee Fast: people just focus on their own smaller area and it can be inspiring to see what other people are

[2:27:04] Trustee Fast: doing. Thank you.

[2:27:08] Voice 29: Okay, so to the motion, Trustee Stanford and Trustee Boland.

[2:27:13] Trustee Stamford: Thank you, Chair.

[2:27:14] Trustee Stamford: I'm just wondering, are there specific wording in this current draft that is not adequate or

[2:27:22] Trustee Stamford: Or is, like, what is exactly the problem we're trying to resolve here?

[2:27:30] Voice 29: Okay, so it's a question to the mover.

[2:27:33] Trustee Patrick: Sure. I think it's more, like I said, to see examples out there.

[2:27:38] Trustee Patrick: I think, I know Trustee Stanford, you, I, others have sat through AVICC, UBCM meetings, where we sit in panels and hear from other areas.

[2:27:48] Trustee Patrick: Not every trustee has that opportunity, nor does our constituents, our islanders.

[2:27:56] Trustee Patrick: So it just helps us have the context to have these conversations.

[2:28:01] Voice 29: All right. Trustee Boland, and there's a hand up in the boardroom.

[2:28:07] Voice 15: Yeah, I would be, I don't know how easy it would be to do this, and it's a very, you know, short, non-exhaustive review.

[2:28:19] Voice 15: view, but I would also like to hear from jurisdictions who chose to say, okay, Mr.

[2:28:26] Voice 15: Province, you need to tell us how to do this, because I feel that we are with good intent

[2:28:36] Voice 15: moving into uncharted territory, and we risk making mistakes, creating divisiveness and

[2:28:47] Voice 15: and friction. And so I'd be curious to know what other jurisdictions are as nervous as, if not

[2:28:55] Voice 15: all of us, but certainly I am, about the kind of things that we're proposing. I support the intent,

[2:29:05] Voice 15: but I am very nervous about how we're going about it. Thanks.

[2:29:13] Voice 29: Thank you, Trustee Boland.

[2:29:14] Trustee Luckham: So the hand up in the boardroom, I just want to flag maybe Director Freyder, if you have any remarks on the potential for help that we might find from the province on this, if that seems appropriate, with respect to Trustee Boland's question there.

[2:29:31] Trustee Luckham: So over to the boardroom, whoever wants to speak to us.

[2:29:33] Voice 8: It's Russ, Chair Luckum. We can certainly do this. I know you've got a serious question of how you want to progress with this body meeting or not associated with the policy statement project.

[2:29:47] Voice 8: So I can assure you that staff can just get on this and provide some information for you, as suggested.

[2:30:01] Trustee Luckham: Okay. All right. So with respect to the motion, then, is there any further comments? And so

[2:30:13] Trustee Luckham: just going to pause. And I'm going to then ask for the vote. All those in favor,

[2:30:20] Trustee Luckham: please raise your hands digitally. And David Marlowe, I'm going to continue to lean on you to

[2:30:25] Trustee Luckham: do the vote counting here.

[2:30:27] Voice 9: Yeah. Yeah, will do. I have 20 hands up.

[2:30:35] Voice 15: Can I just ask, are we committee of the whole or trust council right now with this motion?

[2:30:41] Trustee Luckham: We're committee of the whole and we're making a recommendation.

[2:30:44] Voice 15: Yeah. So it's not a motion actually. Yeah. That was my point. I don't know if we need to-

[2:30:48] Voice 15: That's from our info.

[2:30:50] Voice 8: Like here we go.

[2:30:52] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. So hands down, I think that carries. Well, certainly it does carry, but just for those,

[2:30:59] Trustee Luckham: for the record um are there any opposed one opposed so indeed that carries um so thank you

[2:31:09] Voice 1: so thank you

[2:31:10] Trustee Luckham: you have the floor go ahead thank

[2:31:15] Voice 9: you i just wanted to clarify committee the whole

[2:31:17] Voice 9: can ask for information to be provided so you can pass resolutions to ask for information

[2:31:23] Voice 9: as executive to try to comment that to you let's be just clear we're just going to do it

[2:31:27] Voice 27: and

[2:31:28] Trustee Luckham: there's some other conversations going on in the background as well so i just want to note here

[2:31:32] Trustee Luckham: actually um i'm surprised because i didn't think we had chat enabled there's a string of material

[2:31:41] Trustee Luckham: conversations or questions that are in the chat and so i want to make sure alexandra that we

[2:31:46] Trustee Luckham: capture that so that we're not losing anything there because i know the chat expires at the end

[2:31:53] Trustee Luckham: of this session so just want to flag that um so with respect to the question on the table uh

[2:32:00] Trustee Luckham: regularly scheduled meetings uh uh further guidance legal and otherwise um what's the

[2:32:07] Trustee Luckham: interest of council here anybody judy getty uh

[2:32:12] Trustee Gedye: with respect to legal advice um and i haven't

[2:32:15] Trustee Gedye: watched the and or read through my notes but we had an introductory session with restarting

[2:32:20] Trustee Gedye: with respect to the range of possibilities

[2:32:25] Trustee Gedye: in terms of reconciliation and First Nations

[2:32:29] Trustee Gedye: working with First Nations.

[2:32:31] Trustee Gedye: So I would, and I asked on the chat

[2:32:34] Trustee Gedye: whether or not it had been recorded

[2:32:37] Trustee Gedye: and apparently it's part of the video

[2:32:38] Trustee Gedye: of the December 22 Trust Council meeting.

[2:32:41] Trustee Gedye: So I think it might be helpful

[2:32:43] Trustee Gedye: if we had a chance to look at that and review it

[2:32:47] Trustee Gedye: and then we can fine tune

[2:32:48] Trustee Gedye: whether or not we want to get Reese back

[2:32:51] Trustee Gedye: or there's other legal opinions that we need.

[2:32:54] Trustee Gedye: But I think it might be enough to help guide us

[2:32:58] Trustee Gedye: in terms of working through some of this

[2:33:00] Trustee Gedye: without spending more money

[2:33:02] Trustee Gedye: in terms of a more detailed legal opinion at this point.

[2:33:11] Trustee Luckham: Sure.

[2:33:12] Trustee Luckham: I think that, you know, it's interesting decision-making.

[2:33:14] Trustee Luckham: There were pillars of information required.

[2:33:19] Trustee Luckham: although certainly we should always be respective at cost,

[2:33:21] Trustee Luckham: money shouldn't be one of the deciding factors

[2:33:23] Trustee Luckham: if there's information that's necessary.

[2:33:25] Trustee Luckham: So, Trustee Bernardo.

[2:33:28] Voice 6: Thank you.

[2:33:30] Voice 6: I just want to clarify something.

[2:33:31] Voice 6: I mean, we're kind of being a little indiscriminate

[2:33:34] Voice 6: in the use of getting,

[2:33:36] Voice 6: not drawing the distinction between getting legal advice,

[2:33:38] Voice 6: getting legal opinion.

[2:33:39] Voice 6: I don't support the idea of getting a legal opinion

[2:33:41] Voice 6: because we don't actually have anything

[2:33:43] Trustee Luckham: that a

[2:33:44] Voice 6: lawyer would feel comfortable drilling into

[2:33:46] Voice 6: to provide an actual opinion.

[2:33:48] Voice 6: opinion. It's not mature enough a document at that stage. What I'm talking about is really

[2:33:55] Voice 6: something quite a bit less formal than that. And because you ask for a legal opinion, you're

[2:34:00] Voice 6: asking for a level of real definite reasoning and a conclusion from legal counsel that is

[2:34:10] Voice 6: typically very hard to get to. It requires a lot of work. Something, legal advice, can

[2:34:16] Voice 6: be quite a bit more wide-ranging a lot more general about it and can be assisting to

[2:34:23] Voice 6: drill into the issues and to highlight what some considerations are and what i was talking about

[2:34:29] Voice 6: before and i think some other people are talking about before it's getting an informal legal

[2:34:33] Voice 6: assessment input for the purposes of just getting clear on what our baseline jurisdiction is to do

[2:34:40] Voice 6: or not do the things that the tps is contemplating contemplating it and i don't think it has to be

[2:34:46] Voice 6: that complicated um or that expensive uh one other issue i'd like to touch on with respect to process

[2:34:53] Voice 6: since we're in the process part of the meeting uh is i'd like us to address uh how we go forward in

[2:34:59] Voice 6: terms of chairing the meetings uh this meeting's gone pretty well but uh at some point we are going

[2:35:05] Voice 6: to need a traffic cop to deal with um trustees and their points of view and that sort of thing

[2:35:11] Voice 6: and I do think I mean Robert's rules contemplates that meetings have chairs for a reason I mean you

[2:35:19] Voice 6: just do need a traffic cop just to organize and make sure a debate proceeds in an orderly

[2:35:25] Voice 6: respectful fashion I think there's a limit to what we can expect staff to do at that front

[2:35:30] Voice 6: I don't know what the answer is but how we do the chairing but we are going to need a chair

[2:35:34] Voice 6: I think, in subsequent meetings. Thank you.

[2:35:39] Trustee Luckham: Well, thank you, Trustee Bernardo. And just

[2:35:42] Trustee Luckham: for fact, thank you for your advice on legal opinion. And also want to acknowledge

[2:35:49] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Getty's advice on that as well. And so if we want to have a session with legal advice,

[2:35:57] Trustee Luckham: I think from Trustee Getty, certainly worth reviewing the material that we've already had,

[2:36:02] Trustee Luckham: formulate the questions that we want to ask on as trustee Bernardo said advice because I think

[2:36:10] Trustee Luckham: there are just simply questions that some of us need to have answered so we'll need some direction

[2:36:15] Trustee Luckham: for that in terms of next meetings and whether that's the next meeting topic or not or it's more

[2:36:20] Trustee Luckham: broad at another meeting and I just want to answer the thing about the chairing absolutely you're

[2:36:26] Trustee Luckham: You're right. And this was a one-off here as a way to get this started, but certainly there's

[2:36:33] Trustee Luckham: more conversation to have. And if the Committee of the Whole wants to have another arrangement,

[2:36:40] Trustee Luckham: and certainly that's been indicated, then let's figure out how to do that. Absolutely support

[2:36:44] Trustee Luckham: that. So I see Trustee Maberly, Elliott, and Morrison, and we've got 12 minutes left remaining

[2:36:51] Trustee Luckham: remaining in this session with some discretion.

[2:37:00] Voice 3: I just wanted to inquire,

[2:37:02] Voice 3: how much time are we setting aside at Trust Council

[2:37:04] Voice 3: and on Salt Spring to discuss the policy statement?

[2:37:10] Trustee Luckham: Well, not much, but this is part of the session here,

[2:37:15] Trustee Luckham: but CEO Hotzenpiller or whomever's got the finger

[2:37:20] Trustee Luckham: on the pulse of the current version of the agenda,

[2:37:23] Trustee Luckham: which we're gonna be revisiting next week.

[2:37:26] Trustee Luckham: how much time if any do we have on that for a policy statement discussion yeah

[2:37:31] Voice 8: the whole concept

[2:37:32] Voice 8: is uh the use of the committee of the whole for the informal discussion around the document until

[2:37:37] Voice 8: such time as it matures enough to get in front of trust council for specifics that's really up to

[2:37:43] Voice 8: you and it's the question in front of you right now um so the the quick answer is there is no

[2:37:49] Voice 8: schedule time at trust council for other than just an update as to anything else but there is

[2:37:55] Voice 8: no scheduled discussion time at trust council the intention was that these would be committee of the

[2:38:01] Voice 8: whole meetings until you directed otherwise exactly

[2:38:05] Trustee Luckham: so

[2:38:06] Voice 8: there's lots of work and it might

[2:38:09] Voice 8: take up too much of your sitting time yeah

[2:38:12] Trustee Luckham: and so that's why we were suggesting well

[2:38:15] Voice 3: i mean i just

[2:38:15] Voice 3: think it's important that if we're going to be yeah peter i just uh just saying i think it's

[2:38:22] Voice 3: important that we understand i mean we all know what happened last time um if we continue to

[2:38:32] Voice 3: pretend that we're doing everything in private so to speak um and not have public discussions

[2:38:40] Voice 3: discussions not have our discussions public um i mean we're going to go down the same path and

[2:38:47] Voice 3: we're going to we're going to end up at a wall where the public has you know not been part of

[2:38:53] Voice 3: the conversation um you know we continue to run into this even with um indigenous engagement so

[2:39:01] Voice 3: um i i mean i i think this is something that we should have on the agenda at trust council i think

[2:39:06] Voice 3: there should be enough time set aside so that we can have a wholesome discussion about the direction

[2:39:11] Voice 3: that we're going so the public has an understanding about the direction that trust council is going

[2:39:16] Voice 3: and can comment on that i mean the process is almost as important as the final product

[2:39:22] Voice 3: thank you and

[2:39:23] Trustee Luckham: so just to be clear this is a live streamed meeting and is public

[2:39:29] Trustee Luckham: and um so indeed you're absolutely right we need to do these in public it doesn't

[2:39:34] Trustee Luckham: always, we're breaking the mold, so to speak. It doesn't always have to happen now at Trust

[2:39:39] Trustee Luckham: Council, which is what we've been restricted with before. Staff have advised that weekly or

[2:39:45] Trustee Luckham: bi-weekly meetings, the frequency of the meetings, and I'll tell you this, outside of everybody's

[2:39:50] Trustee Luckham: already full schedules, there's flexibility around the hours of the day or night.

[2:39:55] Trustee Luckham: night. Evenings maybe might be a better word than night. But I think that there's a lot of work to

[2:40:04] Trustee Luckham: do, as the CAO has said, and we need to get on with it. And so we need to make some determination

[2:40:08] Trustee Luckham: about how frequent, how often, and when we want to meet and whether we want to focus it on topics.

[2:40:16] Trustee Luckham: So I'm going to go to Trustee Elliott as next, and I'll get you to lower your hand, Ben. Thank

[2:40:20] Trustee Luckham: you for your comments thank

[2:40:23] Voice 21: you um so i sent a motion to alexandra

[2:40:28] Trustee Elliott: um and i would just read it

[2:40:32] Trustee Elliott: out it's regarding having legal counsel available so this would simply recommend that the committee

[2:40:38] Trustee Elliott: of the whole recommend to trust counsel that it has legal counsel available for a future committee

[2:40:44] Trustee Elliott: of the whole meeting and i think that gives us some flexibility um whether that's in camera or

[2:40:51] Trustee Elliott: or not. But just that it be available.

[2:40:54] Trustee Luckham: Right. Okay. So do I have a seconder? I see a bunch of

[2:41:01] Trustee Luckham: hands up. Trustee Morrison, are you seconding there? No. Somebody else seconding? I see Trustee

[2:41:06] Trustee Luckham: Barnardo's lifted his hand. So I'm going to go with that. Wish to speak to your motion,

[2:41:12] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Elliott?

[2:41:14] Trustee Elliott: No. Simply that some of us have fundamental questions. Others are more

[2:41:20] Trustee Elliott: comfortable moving forward with ambiguity I just think having a session where legal counsel is

[2:41:26] Trustee Elliott: available if those questions can be need to be asked at this point or even a month from now

[2:41:32] Trustee Elliott: we can set the the process in motion and yes we want to support trust counsel in its decision

[2:41:39] Trustee Elliott: making this is one of the tools thank you okay

[2:41:43] Trustee Luckham: thank you so on the motion that's on the floor I

[2:41:46] Trustee Luckham: and we're recognizing still and fast and then there's a hand up in the boardroom that maybe

[2:41:51] Trustee Luckham: has some advice i

[2:41:52] Trustee Fast: have another motion so i'm going to pass for now if you can keep my okay

[2:41:57] Trustee Luckham: we'll come back to you uh so trustee bernardo is elected do you have a um a remark on the motion

[2:42:04] Trustee Luckham: that's on the floor yes

[2:42:05] Voice 6: i wish to speak to the motion uh briefly um i just want to be clear this

[2:42:11] Voice 6: This is not about limiting what the trustees can do or the range of reasoning or how far they go.

[2:42:17] Voice 6: It's simply about trying to develop a baseline understanding of what our jurisdiction is.

[2:42:23] Voice 6: And the idea behind that is to save us the trouble of stepping in the glue.

[2:42:28] Voice 6: I mean, we could have, you know, we could proceed without consulting legal counsel until the end of the piece.

[2:42:33] Voice 6: But then if we're wandering all over the place with that, we could easily end up with conclusions that aren't sustainable.

[2:42:41] Voice 6: let's save ourselves the time and the trouble by at least understanding what the broad framework is

[2:42:47] Voice 6: there's regardless of what that advice is i'm quite sure it's going to leave this group with

[2:42:53] Voice 6: a tremendous amount of discretion but it's a question of where the boundaries are and it's

[2:42:59] Voice 6: it's i don't view this as a particularly complicated exercise i view this as an

[2:43:03] Voice 6: occasion where legal counsel will be able to just provide us with the broad parameters

[2:43:07] Voice 6: and that gives us something to work with when we get to it and I and I don't think it should

[2:43:12] Voice 6: getting legal advice should provoke some complicated difficult discussion it's just

[2:43:18] Voice 6: about getting oriented thank you

[2:43:20] Voice 29: so boardroom I'm certainly just

[2:43:27] Voice 6: wondering if you wanted to

[2:43:28] Voice 18: recommend this to the executive committee as they'll be the ones taking charge of organizing

[2:43:33] Voice 18: your future meetings so you could you could consider there might be a friendly amendment

[2:43:37] Voice 18: to the motion should recommend to executive committee and if not we'll just execute as

[2:43:44] Voice 18: efficiently as we can i

[2:43:45] Trustee Elliott: thought we had to make a recommendation to trust council that was just my

[2:43:50] Trustee Elliott: understanding of the committee of the whole process

[2:43:51] Voice 9: yeah if i made it it really doesn't

[2:43:56] Voice 9: matter because executive committee is uh tasked with this project anyway and so anything that

[2:44:03] Voice 9: says the trust council would take it to executive committee in respect to this so just keep it as

[2:44:07] Voice 9: is i think it's simpler apologies that's

[2:44:10] Voice 9: okay just keep it that way simpler uh for you don't

[2:44:13] Voice 9: have to keep thinking about who it needs to go to so i just recommend to counsel

[2:44:21] Trustee Luckham: yeah so you know we're breaking new ground here except to remind us all of that and learning our

[2:44:27] Trustee Luckham: way forward here um and so whether it's to counsel or executive committee i don't want to i don't

[2:44:35] Trustee Luckham: want to um debate it with director marler at all but um you know it begs the question as motions

[2:44:42] Trustee Luckham: are coming up here um does council have to meet to decide these things and and so yes um and so

[2:44:50] Trustee Luckham: if it's forwarded to executive committee uh uh that uh that indeed executive committee has the

[2:44:57] Trustee Luckham: ability to direct this work um and we could obviously decide to do that and that would be

[2:45:03] Trustee Luckham: supported by uh whether or not this motion carries or not and so although it's not a decision of

[2:45:09] Trustee Luckham: council it's a decision or committee of the whole um it certainly reflects council's opinion if it's

[2:45:15] Trustee Luckham: a majority or not one way or the other so let's just speak to the motion and let's just i think

[2:45:21] Trustee Luckham: the recommendation is keep it simple so let's keep it simple um on the motion is there anybody else

[2:45:26] Trustee Luckham: that wishes to speak uh trustee scott yes

[2:45:33] Voice 13: thank you i tend to vote against this motion because i

[2:45:39] Voice 13: think we have smart enough and legal enough minds within the council itself within the staff and the

[2:45:46] Voice 13: people i don't think we need to have a lawyer on the side to tell us what we might or might not

[2:45:54] Voice 13: do to avoid us as somebody said going down some long path that's a waste of time i cannot see

[2:46:01] Voice 13: us doing that so i'm going to vote against this motion thanks okay

[2:46:07] Trustee Luckham: um if there's no further given

[2:46:10] Trustee Luckham: the time we've got if there's no further speakers on the motion i am going to call for the vote

[2:46:15] Trustee Luckham: and so all those in favor please raise your hands david i

[2:46:31] Voice 9: see 13 hands up

[2:46:35] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so then those in favor, please lower your hands. And those, those, that's weird, wrong clicker. So now those opposed to the motion, please raise your hands.

[2:46:56] Voice 9: I see seven hands up.

[2:46:59] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[2:46:59] Trustee Luckham: So

[2:46:59] Voice 9: that would pass with the abstains.

[2:47:02] Trustee Luckham: okay so then that does carry and so um we'll um uh determine how to advance that accordingly

[2:47:09] Trustee Luckham: so uh suelen fast you had your hand up earlier for order

[2:47:14] Trustee Luckham: oh point of order go ahead sorry

[2:47:16] Voice 14: because of

[2:47:17] Voice 14: the electronic system of hands going up and down i actually was before suelen fast i'm sorry you

[2:47:23] Trustee Luckham: were which i

[2:47:25] Voice 14: also have had my hand up in a motion into the motions thing and um uh was was there

[2:47:31] Voice 14: before Sue Ellen, I think, as far as I can see it on how things came up

[2:47:34] Voice 27: in

[2:47:35] Voice 14: the chat about that,

[2:47:37] Voice 14: because if you don't keep a physical list on the side, you're losing order.

[2:47:48] Voice 9: Yeah, I can confirm that Trustee Morrison's resolution came in ahead of

[2:47:55] Voice 9: Is that or David, please?

[2:47:57] Voice 9: Oh, sorry.

[2:47:58] Voice 9: Yeah, it's David here. I can confirm that Trustee Morrison's

[2:48:01] Voice 9: resolution came into us before Trustee Fast.

[2:48:05] Voice 9: Okay.

[2:48:06] Trustee Luckham: Well, let's, that's a reasonable approach. Let's go with that, Trustee Morrison.

[2:48:12] Voice 14: Sorry, Director Marler, was there another person's motion that came in before mine?

[2:48:17] Trustee Luckham: No.

[2:48:18] Trustee Luckham: No, just Tobit's.

[2:48:20] Voice 14: Okay. So, I move that the Committee of the Whole recommend to Executive Committee to provide significant time for discussion of the Trust Policy Statement in Committee of the Whole format at the June 2024 Trust Council Meeting.

[2:48:36] Voice 4: Oh,

[2:48:39] Voice 14: that's not the motion that I'm talking about. It's the motion that I, I sent two motions in.

[2:48:48] Trustee Luckham: Okay. So this motion on the screen is not what you've just moved.

[2:48:52] Voice 14: Not right now. Not right now. I had two motions, but I think it's more important

[2:48:56] Voice 14: given your limited time and how we're running this meeting to get the motion

[2:49:01] Voice 14: on the table.

[2:49:01] Trustee Luckham: Let's get the second motion on the screen. Thank you.

[2:49:11] Trustee Luckham: okay um i'm going to seek a seconder for this motion

[2:49:19] Voice 21: okay

[2:49:21] Trustee Luckham: um and now i see it a hand went up trustee maybe later seconded i said a hand

[2:49:27] Trustee Luckham: went up in the boardroom immediately and i imagine they have some advice about

[2:49:30] Trustee Luckham: our june council which is already mostly prepared go ahead

[2:49:36] Voice 1: boardroom

[2:49:41] Trustee Luckham: your hand up

[2:49:42] Trustee Luckham: uh

[2:49:44] Voice 8: direct uh trustee morrison i was about to speak and then she's indicated she wishes to

[2:49:48] Voice 8: speak so i it's up to you sir oh

[2:49:52] Trustee Luckham: i see okay so uh fair enough so you're absolutely right let's uh

[2:49:57] Trustee Luckham: trustee morrison speak to the motion thank

[2:50:01] Voice 14: you so as ben um trustee maberly had mentioned

[2:50:04] Voice 14: i do think this is actually priority work for the council it's been ongoing since 2019 and i think it

[2:50:10] Voice 14: um other types of reporting especially in the june meeting um we're post-budget we're not prepping

[2:50:16] Voice 14: for the next budget like we are in a perfect space to be able to deeply consider this and we need to

[2:50:22] Voice 14: have the time so i think this um other types of reporting we can make them um what do you call

[2:50:29] Voice 14: them uh consent agenda items people can read them check through them but these are the deep

[2:50:36] Voice 14: conversations that we need to have thanks um

[2:50:41] Trustee Luckham: so is it okay with council we hear from uh staff at

[2:50:44] Trustee Luckham: this point they they wanted to speak i see trustee evans is nodding so go ahead uh boardroom so yes

[2:50:52] Voice 8: substantially the june trust council's planned out and a significant element associated with it

[2:50:56] Voice 8: is a follow-up on the strategic planning session that we had in march for a full day session it's

[2:51:03] Voice 8: a recommendation of both executive committee and the um the corporate planning group um we've been

[2:51:09] Voice 8: working with a consultant to to continue to work on the on the um five focus areas um and and what's

[2:51:18] Voice 8: important about that session is that then leads right into the as you reflect and refine um on

[2:51:25] Voice 8: those and the goals and outcomes you want and the projects that will follow that follows into your

[2:51:29] Voice 8: budget cycle for the coming year's approval in 2025 so that's scheduled from wednesday

[2:51:37] Voice 8: um from nine o'clock till about three that being said free time you have available is you could

[2:51:44] Voice 8: remove sort of the staff updates on the tuesday afternoon or you could take a couple hours later

[2:51:52] Voice 8: on the wednesday following the strategic planning session so that's just some context for you um

[2:51:57] Voice 8: in the plan. You know, the June Trust Council agenda goes out in tomorrow afternoon

[2:52:05] Voice 8: for approval by EC. So it's been worked to the point I've described right now. Thank you.

[2:52:13] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. Trustee Evans, Trustee Graham.

[2:52:17] Voice 16: Thank you. One of the recommendations that was in the briefing was that we can set a schedule,

[2:52:23] Voice 16: we can have meetings every two or three weeks or however we seem, whatever is going to work for us.

[2:52:29] Voice 16: i think that would be a good idea to to come to a consensus as to how often we should meet

[2:52:35] Voice 16: and i know that that trust council meeting is happening in three weeks so that we'll kind of

[2:52:41] Voice 16: fall in line with the timing um and as um as the staff have just brought to our attention there is

[2:52:50] Voice 16: the possibility of carving out an hour or two um but i don't think it's going to be a full day

[2:52:56] Voice 16: that we're going to be able to do at this point in time seeing as though the schedule for trust

[2:53:00] Voice 16: council has already been set um there are options like you said of staying late one of the evenings

[2:53:06] Voice 16: and uh and having this discussion so i'm i'm definitely in favor of finding time um but if

[2:53:14] Voice 16: it doesn't happen for this trust council meeting then either we can book another cow the week

[2:53:19] Voice 16: before the week after trust council um i'm i'm gonna be doing my best to keep my my schedule

[2:53:26] Voice 16: and availability open to to keep these meetings going so yeah

[2:53:31] Trustee Luckham: thank you trustee evans and i'll

[2:53:33] Trustee Luckham: get the boardroom to lower their hand unless there's some other remark from there i'm going

[2:53:37] Trustee Luckham: to go trustee graham bernardo peterson thank

[2:53:44] Voice 27: you chair i'm going to vote against the motion

[2:53:47] Voice 27: I can appreciate where it's coming from, but the fact that the work of scheduling the June

[2:53:56] Voice 27: Trust Council meeting is basically done, the ink is dry, I think that's an unfair request.

[2:54:04] Voice 27: And it's based on the fact that I don't really feel the urgency.

[2:54:08] Voice 27: Yes, this project has been taking a long, long time.

[2:54:11] Voice 27: I don't have a problem with that.

[2:54:13] Voice 27: I think we should take our time with this particular project.

[2:54:15] Voice 27: And I understood that working with the committee of the whole was our tool for us to take the time to talk apparently more relaxed rather than a trust council environment.

[2:54:34] Voice 27: This one was a little bit busy.

[2:54:37] Voice 27: It kind of got us up to speed.

[2:54:39] Voice 27: But the next one, we wouldn't need all of the preamble that preceded this meeting.

[2:54:43] Voice 27: and we perhaps would have three hours of really good discussion.

[2:54:47] Voice 27: I've enjoyed most of what I've heard today, but it was limited.

[2:54:50] Voice 27: I think we only had about 45 minutes where we could actually engage the topic.

[2:54:54] Voice 27: But that wouldn't happen the next time.

[2:54:55] Voice 27: As I say, we've done the preliminary work.

[2:54:58] Voice 27: So from my perspective, let's back off the urgency issues.

[2:55:03] Voice 27: Let's enjoy June Trust Council as it has been laid out

[2:55:07] Voice 27: by our very competent staff and executive.

[2:55:10] Voice 27: And let's continue having meetings, a committee of the whole,

[2:55:13] Voice 27: and focus on this very important work of the policy statement and not rush anything thank you

[2:55:19] Voice 28: trustee bernardo uh

[2:55:23] Voice 6: thank you um i um i understand where the motion is coming from but i can't

[2:55:28] Voice 6: support it and i'll explain why um you know we can and should be able to do our normal course work

[2:55:36] Voice 6: in tandem with the important work of developing the tps um us talking in june or making you know

[2:55:45] Voice 6: moving things around on the June agenda for the trust council meeting that's not going to

[2:55:50] Voice 6: materially advance this project by itself and I don't see a reason for us to interfere with

[2:56:00] Voice 6: the agenda for the trust council meeting and derail the normal course work that's work that

[2:56:05] Voice 6: has to happen we don't want to lose that including the reports from staff my suggestion is instead

[2:56:12] Voice 6: And this, you know, follows up on something the chair had mentioned before and some other people had mentioned in passing, which is this is not a project that is going to get done in a hurry.

[2:56:22] Voice 6: It's going to require a lot of diligence and attention and hard thought on the part of all of the trustees working in a respectful manner.

[2:56:30] Voice 6: And this meeting, I think, is a success.

[2:56:32] Voice 6: And I suggest that we consider, instead of derailing the June meeting, consider scheduling a series of short meetings.

[2:56:40] Voice 6: we're all under time crunch and you know we can't afford to have three-hour meetings

[2:56:44] Voice 6: weekly but we can

[2:56:46] Voice 6: i think contemplate scheduling perhaps bi-weekly meetings that are no longer

[2:56:51] Voice 6: than 90 minutes perhaps in the evenings to drill into specific topics we have a lot there's no

[2:56:56] Voice 6: getting away from it we have a lot of work ahead of us and i think we need a much more deliberate

[2:57:02] Voice 6: plan on how we will come together as a committee of a whole to hash through all those things so

[2:57:08] Voice 6: So I'm going to suggest we start considering setting up a schedule of short meetings as a

[2:57:14] Voice 6: committee as a whole to deal with this. Thank you.

[2:57:19] Trustee Luckham: Indeed. Thank you, Trustee Bernardo.

[2:57:21] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Peterson and then Trustee Morrison, you had your hand up before Trustee Allen,

[2:57:26] Trustee Luckham: but Trustee Allen hasn't spoken. And if it's all right, I'd like to go with him and I'll

[2:57:30] Trustee Luckham: come back to you. Trustee Peterson.

[2:57:32] Voice 24: Thank you, Chair. I'm speaking against the motion

[2:57:36] Voice 24: for one simple reason and that is that we haven't gone through the

[2:57:41] Voice 24: recommendation of how we're going to lay out the next set of Cal meetings

[2:57:46] Voice 24: certainly I think in addition to Cal meetings as needed we can schedule a

[2:57:51] Voice 24: special meetings of Trust Council and then one final point is because of the

[2:57:59] Voice 24: ambiguity but also the insignificant I I'd love to see us take significant time

[2:58:06] Voice 24: at a trust council meeting,

[2:58:08] Voice 24: but I would suggest that it's more appropriate

[2:58:10] Voice 24: given the timeline to that council,

[2:58:13] Voice 24: to the June council meeting

[2:58:14] Voice 24: that that might be recommended for September

[2:58:18] Voice 24: rather than June.

[2:58:20] Voice 24: Thank you.

[2:58:24] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you, Trustee Allen.

[2:58:28] Trustee Allen: Yes, thank you, Chair.

[2:58:29] Trustee Allen: Well, I'm in favor of this motion

[2:58:31] Trustee Allen: from hearing Trustee Mabry and Trustee Morrison

[2:58:37] Trustee Allen: regarding there's an opportunity in this meeting

[2:58:39] Trustee Allen: to really delve into it deeper.

[2:58:42] Trustee Allen: I mean, we have these town meetings

[2:58:43] Trustee Allen: and there's only two people, you know,

[2:58:44] Trustee Allen: participants watching this meeting.

[2:58:46] Trustee Allen: And at Trust Council, you've got far more people

[2:58:48] Trustee Allen: that are going to be watching.

[2:58:49] Trustee Allen: And because I didn't attend the in-camera meeting

[2:58:53] Trustee Allen: in September, there was five of us

[2:58:54] Trustee Allen: that weren't even at that meeting.

[2:58:57] Trustee Allen: You know how the reaction is in the communities

[2:59:00] Trustee Allen: out there regarding that.

[2:59:01] Trustee Allen: And, you know, I've got people in the community

[2:59:06] Trustee Allen: here on Hornby saying that, you know,

[2:59:07] Trustee Allen: that's just ridiculous.

[2:59:09] Trustee Allen: they can't attend necessarily this Cal meeting and trust council meetings we get far more people

[2:59:16] Trustee Allen: attending and they do need to see this and I'd rather see the staff reports we'll just read them

[2:59:22] Trustee Allen: and not extend time on Wednesdays we all know Wednesdays are just horrible and have some time

[2:59:29] Trustee Allen: to discuss this openly in front of more people than two thank you

[2:59:34] Trustee Luckham: okay thank you trustee Allen

[2:59:36] Trustee Luckham: one um trustee morrison and i would like to make my own remark but i can do that after you or before

[2:59:44] Trustee Luckham: you depending on how you want to if

[2:59:46] Voice 14: you haven't spoken on this topic you should speak before me

[2:59:48] Voice 14: that's robert's rules

[2:59:49] Trustee Luckham: very kind thank you um yeah you know i think we have to realize that

[2:59:56] Trustee Luckham: we're changing our our course here and

[2:59:59] Trustee Luckham: And...

[3:00:00] Trustee Luckham: how we're doing decision-making and providing access to the public. And sure, there's only

[3:00:05] Trustee Luckham: two people today, but ideally when it becomes clear of what's going on, we would attract more.

[3:00:12] Trustee Luckham: Maybe we need to do more work in terms of marketing that. This is serious work and we

[3:00:20] Trustee Luckham: need to take it on, but we don't need to do it within the framework of trust counsel is

[3:00:23] Trustee Luckham: essentially what I'm saying. So September is way too late to start having more discussions about

[3:00:28] Trustee Luckham: about this and June is tomorrow and well day after tomorrow

[3:00:34] Trustee Luckham: and we need to schedule as Trustee Bonato has said

[3:00:39] Trustee Luckham: is regular meetings that are manageable

[3:00:41] Trustee Luckham: within people's times and let's get on with that

[3:00:44] Trustee Luckham: and Executive Committee is gonna consider

[3:00:46] Trustee Luckham: some recommendations to you with respect to that I think

[3:00:50] Trustee Luckham: in absence of something more formally advanced.

[3:00:54] Trustee Luckham: So that's it for me, over to you Trustee Morrison.

[3:00:58] Voice 14: Thank you. So a couple things that I've been hearing, and I like some of the suggestions

[3:01:03] Voice 14: that have been made. I actually think that we're going to have to do it either in June or September

[3:01:07] Voice 14: from a community transparency perspective. So if it's not June, we should have some time in

[3:01:13] Voice 14: September around this. And I do think that we should have some time in June. We should figure

[3:01:20] Voice 14: out how to get a couple hours in the schedule, no matter what. I think the issue when we start

[3:01:26] Voice 14: scheduling regular meetings and i've named this multiple times in trust council is there's an

[3:01:32] Voice 14: equity issue for those who work and those who are retired and so like we cannot be putting

[3:01:38] Voice 14: meetings of the whole and expecting us to be there when some people's schedules are like set like we

[3:01:44] Voice 14: don't have control over all of those meetings and we can't necessarily come to meetings

[3:01:48] Voice 14: that are scheduled on short notice so and that goes this that is the same for our community

[3:01:53] Voice 14: We cannot expect that our community can attend virtual meetings in the middle of the day without significant advance notice for us to be able to get these meetings into people's awareness.

[3:02:04] Voice 14: So those are all things that we have to consider.

[3:02:08] Voice 14: Framing trust council time when it hasn't been fully approved by agenda as what free time we have is misleading.

[3:02:16] Voice 14: leading. The executive committee has the authority to go ahead and determine what the agenda is. So

[3:02:24] Voice 14: if we only have like whatever it was, CAO, Hudson Pillar that you named as what are the free times

[3:02:30] Voice 14: are outside, I do understand the issues with consultants. So taking into account that and

[3:02:35] Voice 14: figuring out how it can be appropriately done regardless of which way we vote on this motion

[3:02:39] Voice 14: is something for EC to consider and then maybe the last thing this is our normal course of work

[3:02:47] Voice 14: this is part of the core effort that we need to be doing and it needs to be seen even in committee

[3:02:54] Voice 14: of the whole conversation framing because I think that does help us I've really enjoyed this meeting

[3:02:58] Voice 14: it does need to be seen as part of our our regular course of work that's included in trust council

[3:03:04] Voice 14: Council meetings. So thank you very much for that. And I'm good to go ahead and call.

[3:03:10] Trustee Luckham: Okay. I want to, I really want to call the vote here because we're now 15 minutes over time.

[3:03:16] Trustee Luckham: I'm asking you to come back at one o'clock for another session, brief, ideally. So Trustee

[3:03:23] Trustee Luckham: Evans, if you don't mind, you can quickly and Trustee Harris, and then I'd like to call the

[3:03:28] Trustee Luckham: vote.

[3:03:30] Voice 16: Okay. You might not like what I'm going to suggest. I can't support the motion, the way that

[3:03:34] Voice 16: it's written if i could make an amendment to remove the word significant then i could support

[3:03:38] Voice 16: it uh

[3:03:46] Trustee Luckham: you know it doesn't really change the context of the points of view we've heard um so

[3:03:54] Trustee Luckham: then i won't do that and i just can't support it at the way it's currently written that's fine

[3:04:00] Trustee Luckham: trustee i respect that um um just the time that's available to us is challenging so trustee harris

[3:04:07] Trustee Luckham: uh you'll have to unmute yourself no

[3:04:17] Voice 31: thank you for that thank you chair welcome i i'm in support

[3:04:21] Voice 31: of this motion um i i'm troubled by by a lot of this um just you know i think it's a good thing

[3:04:28] Voice 31: that we can bring it in front of this big trust council that's coming up um hopefully we have some

[3:04:34] Voice 31: some uh attendees there um it'd be nice to shine a light on you know what is troubling to me um

[3:04:41] Voice 31: You know, the governance review we had last term, Dean Leone's trust, this, you know, dysfunctional, in need of a major restructuring. And so I find it difficult to see how we can even think that we're capable of solving this policy statement issue without us having looked at that.

[3:05:01] Voice 31: you know what I've written down here is um you know how can we do that how can we deal with this

[3:05:09] Voice 31: and and it seems that we're incapable of dealing with this at this point um being that we're still

[3:05:16] Voice 31: in this dysfunctional state we haven't really addressed the governance review in any meaningful

[3:05:21] Voice 31: way and until we have proper lengthy engagement with the province regarding such um I find all

[3:05:28] Voice 31: this very troubling and almost in in my view it looks like we're really wasting time um but i'll

[3:05:34] Voice 31: leave it there thank you okay

[3:05:36] Trustee Luckham: i'm going to call the vote um all those in favor please raise your

[3:05:41] Trustee Luckham: hands digitally in favor i

[3:05:49] Voice 9: see nine in favor sorry

[3:05:52] Trustee Luckham: i was voting in the wrong direction there

[3:05:54] Trustee Luckham: sorry

[3:05:54] Voice 9: all right there's currently seven hands up so seven in favor okay

[3:05:59] Trustee Luckham: so please lower your hands

[3:06:04] Trustee Luckham: and okay and

[3:06:06] Voice 29: now those opposed that's

[3:06:16] Voice 9: 13 opposed okay that's

[3:06:19] Voice 9: the majority opposed okay thank you

[3:06:21] Trustee Luckham: and you know this result so that fails and so this motion the outcome of this motion doesn't

[3:06:27] Trustee Luckham: mean we're not going to try and have more meetings because this is a top priority and we're going to

[3:06:32] Trustee Luckham: have more meetings and i want to try and make sure that everybody can attend and i totally

[3:06:37] Trustee Luckham: understand and respect, myself included, we have other work that needs to be done in order to

[3:06:43] Trustee Luckham: maintain our lives, let alone the work of Trust Council. So I think at this juncture, I want to,

[3:06:51] Trustee Luckham: well, you know what, Sue Ellen Fast, you had your name on the list of motions that have been

[3:06:57] Trustee Luckham: advanced. I would like to respect that. If we can please get this on the table and discuss it

[3:07:03] Trustee Luckham: in short order, I want to close this Committee of the Whole

[3:07:09] Trustee Luckham: and move into, maybe you want to just go directly

[3:07:14] Trustee Luckham: into the council meeting,

[3:07:16] Trustee Luckham: but I think I want to provide you a break.

[3:07:18] Trustee Luckham: So see well and fast.

[3:07:19] Trustee Luckham: And I see three other-

[3:07:20] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair.

[3:07:21] Trustee Fast: Thank you, Chair.

[3:07:22] Trustee Fast: I just have a motion here that's basically out of page five

[3:07:26] Trustee Fast: and pages 45 of our agenda.

[3:07:30] Trustee Fast: I move that the Committee of the Whole

[3:07:31] Trustee Fast: recommend to Trust Council that it amend

[3:07:33] Trustee Fast: in the draft updated policy statement April 2024 version by adding a new directive policy re

[3:07:38] Trustee Fast: islets and small islands to identify and prioritize the preservation protection and

[3:07:44] Trustee Fast: restoration of relatively undisturbed islets and small islands.

[3:07:49] Trustee Luckham: Okay do I have a seconder for that

[3:07:51] Trustee Luckham: there's a ton of hands up who's second trustee Allen I'm going to take you because I see a

[3:07:56] Trustee Luckham: physical hand that's great so just to speak to the motion further Sue Ellen.

[3:08:01] Trustee Fast: I spoke to it earlier

[3:08:03] Trustee Fast: and I'm fine with that. Thank you.

[3:08:06] Trustee Luckham: Thank you. That's great. Any other speakers on the motion?

[3:08:11] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Scott. Trustee Scott, are you there? I'm going to move on. Trustee Evans, are you there?

[3:08:23] Trustee Luckham: It looks like you might be frozen. No, there you are. On the motion. You're muted. Sorry,

[3:08:33] Voice 16: I thought my hand was down. I don't know why it went up.

[3:08:36] Trustee Luckham: That's fine. Yeah, I understand. I had

[3:08:37] Trustee Luckham: the same problem. Trustee Bernardo, is your hand up? Yes,

[3:08:41] Trustee Luckham: it is. Thank you.

[3:08:42] Voice 6: Speaking to the motion,

[3:08:43] Voice 6: uh i appreciate and respect where trustee fast is coming from uh and indeed uh at the right juncture

[3:08:51] Voice 6: i might well support something along these lines but my feeling at this juncture is that it's

[3:08:56] Voice 6: premature to start getting into the nuts and bolts of redrafting at this stage uh i would uh my view

[3:09:04] Voice 6: of it is this is an important point that we ought to hold in reserve until we get a little closer

[3:09:09] Voice 6: and we've done some of the we've cleared out some of the more general work i think it's a little

[3:09:13] Voice 6: premature to start redrafting it now thank you okay

[3:09:16] Voice 28: um trustee boland on the motion yes

[3:09:23] Voice 15: in that context is there a record of suggestions being kept at the moment i mean i don't mean

[3:09:33] Voice 15: minutes and a webinar recording but you know specific points that were raised that in the

[3:09:40] Voice 15: context of general feedback from trustees that will be

[3:09:44] Voice 15: presented in some way or filed.

[3:09:47] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I'm sorry, Trustee Boland, we actually have a motion on the floor

[3:09:50] Trustee Luckham: that we're debating.

[3:09:52] Voice 15: Okay, but what happens to this if it doesn't go forward? I'm talking about Trustee Bernard.

[3:09:58] Trustee Luckham: It's part of the record, it would remain on the record. And certainly I am personally interested.

[3:10:03] Trustee Luckham: yeah

[3:10:03] Voice 15: in the context though of compiling information that will inform how we edit

[3:10:10] Voice 15: amend the trust policy statement it needs to be more than just a general record i think but i

[3:10:18] Voice 15: would ask tyler and claire to speak to that after we've voted on this motion thank you

[3:10:24] Trustee Luckham: yeah um all

[3:10:28] Trustee Luckham: All right, so the motion that's on the floor,

[3:10:31] Trustee Luckham: all those in favor, please.

[3:10:40] Trustee Luckham: And I'll ask David to, no?

[3:10:45] Trustee Luckham: Hmm?

[3:10:46] Voice 9: I see 12 hands up, 12 in favor.

[3:10:48] Trustee Luckham: 12 in favor, okay.

[3:10:50] Trustee Luckham: And so please lower your hands.

[3:10:52] Trustee Luckham: And

[3:10:55] Voice 29: those opposed, please.

[3:11:03] Voice 8: Luckum's voting twice.

[3:11:06] Voice 29: No, Luckum's voting once.

[3:11:12] Voice 9: So excluding Sherlockham there's nine opposed and that was so that carries.

[3:11:22] Trustee Luckham: Okay for the record I did not vote in favour.

[3:11:25] Voice 9: Okay the opposite.

[3:11:28] Trustee Luckham: Okay so please

[3:11:30] Trustee Luckham: lower your hand that carries and so that's great and I would like to conclude this committee of the

[3:11:38] Trustee Luckham: whole and

[3:11:40] Voice 15: my question to claire and tyler are we are they compiling a i don't know compendium

[3:11:46] Voice 15: of ideas which weren't necessarily voted on but came up um you know and not we don't need minutes

[3:11:54] Voice 15: we don't need a webinar we need a kind of a compilation of ideas that might come up again

[3:12:01] Voice 15: and thanks

[3:12:03] Voice 28: Tyler or Claire uh

[3:12:06] Voice 10: yeah welcome um I think that present it can present challenges if

[3:12:12] Voice 10: not done in a formalized way which uh you know meetings do present in the sense that they are

[3:12:18] Voice 10: recorded all Trust Council or all trustees that presents are involved um uh you know so you know

[3:12:24] Voice 10: staff do we take our direction from from Trust Council as a whole so uh if there's desire there

[3:12:31] Voice 10: around a process and i think that could be designed for a meeting and how how it could be

[3:12:37] Voice 10: input in advance um but uh we'd have to turn our minds to that i think but uh player are there

[3:12:43] Voice 15: minutes being written i'm just

[3:12:46] Voice 15: thinking that the committee of the whole is like a free flowing

[3:12:51] Voice 15: discussion and there may be specific things where you think i don't want to forget that because we

[3:12:56] Voice 15: should come back to that i'm just curious suggesting you know how we'll um reap the

[3:13:04] Voice 15: benefits of this kind of discussion without just it being a kind of another version of trust council

[3:13:11] Voice 15: where if there's no motion it never happened i'm

[3:13:16] Trustee Gedye: not sure if it's a point of order but um

[3:13:18] Trustee Gedye: This is administrative and not content.

[3:13:23] Trustee Gedye: Yeah, thank you.

[3:13:24] Voice 28: Thank you, Judy.

[3:13:25] Voice 15: This can be done outside.

[3:13:26] Voice 15: Yeah, fair point, but it's still valid at some stage.

[3:13:30] Voice 15: We need to talk about it.

[3:13:32] Voice 15: Okay, thanks.

[3:13:33] Trustee Luckham: Let's proceed.

[3:13:35] Trustee Luckham: And I want to conclude this.

[3:13:37] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Evans?

[3:13:39] Voice 16: Just for a point of clarification,

[3:13:41] Voice 16: could you just let us know what the final voting numbers were?

[3:13:45] Voice 16: Because I got confused because I know that they're really close

[3:13:47] Voice 16: and you were counted twice and i just don't know how the numbers actually fell out

[3:13:51] Trustee Luckham: david marler on

[3:13:53] Trustee Luckham: the last vote

[3:13:54] Voice 9: yeah i reduced the um the yes vote by one so it was 11 in favor and and uh 10 against

[3:14:01] Voice 9: and then the abstains on top of that so it carried on that basis all

[3:14:07] Trustee Luckham: right and so how many abstentions

[3:14:09] Trustee Luckham: were there make

[3:14:13] Voice 9: me do math yeah i'm sorry

[3:14:16] Voice 9: at least three okay

[3:14:18] Trustee Luckham: thank you so there we go so um

[3:14:21] Trustee Luckham: let's recess the committee, the whole, and I want to ask you, council, we have a briefing from COHC

[3:14:28] Trustee Luckham: for a special meeting. Do you want to start that meeting now or do you want a break? And so those

[3:14:34] Trustee Luckham: that want a break, please raise your hands. Okay. So I'm seeing enough that I think that I need to

[3:14:48] Trustee Luckham: respect that we have a break. Do we need a full half an hour or 15 minutes? And again, raise your

[3:14:54] Trustee Luckham: your hands 15 minutes is that adequate

[3:14:57] Voice 1: 10

[3:15:00] Trustee Luckham: minutes yep okay let's let's do 10 minute break and come

[3:15:11] Trustee Luckham: back and um we'll uh convene a meeting of council in camera and have a brief conversation

[3:15:18] Trustee Luckham: all

[3:15:19] Voice 7: right so we have it publicly announced that it's going to start at one o'clock

[3:15:25] Voice 7: uh the trust council special meeting so what i'm going to do because we've run so late is

[3:15:30] Voice 7: i'm going to quickly turn around the meeting and then i'm going to broadcast a message saying that

[3:15:35] Voice 7: our previous meeting where all trust council attended ran late and we'll we can we will

[3:15:41] Voice 7: convene at can you give me a specific time to put

[3:15:45] Trustee Luckham: out 10 sorry

[3:15:47] Voice 7: 110 or

[3:15:49] Trustee Luckham: 110 thank you yes

[3:15:50] Trustee Luckham: and

[3:15:51] Voice 7: we can always

[3:15:52] Trustee Luckham: start late it's not a legislative problem okay but

[3:15:56] Trustee Luckham: a notice to

[3:15:57] Trustee Luckham: that effect would be fantastic so and so do we need to log back in then you

[3:16:02] Voice 7: do and i've sent

[3:16:03] Voice 7: other links about 20

[3:16:04] Voice 7: minutes ago so you should have new

[3:16:05] Voice 7: links in your emails okay

[3:16:07] Trustee Luckham: so see you

[3:16:08] Trustee Luckham: back here at 110 thank you for your kindness

Island Trust Council Special Meeting Minutes 
May 30, 2024 ADOPTED Page 1 of 2 
Trust Council              Trust Council  
Minutes of a Special Meeting 
 
Date of Meeting:  
Location:  
 
Thursday, May 30, 2024 
Electronic Meeting 
  
Executive Present: 1. Peter Luckham, Chair, Thetis 
 2. David Maude, Vice-Chair, Mayne 
 3. Tim Peterson, Vice-Chair, Lasqueti 
4. Tobi Elliott, Vice-Chair, Gabriola 
 
Trustees Present: 5. Judith Gedye, Bowen Island Municipal Trustee 
6. Sue Ellen Fast, Bowen Island Municipal Trustee 
 7. Sam Borthwick, Denman Trustee 
 8. David Graham, Denman Trustee 
 9. Susan Yates, Gabriola Trustee 
 10. Lisa Gauvreau, Galiano Trustee 
 11. Kate-Louise Stamford, Gambier Trustee 
 12. Mikaila Lironi, Lasqueti Trustee 
13. Jeannine Dodds, Mayne Trustee  
 14. Deb Morrison, North Pender Trustee 
15. Aaron Campbell, North Pender Trustee 
 16. Laura Patrick, Salt Spring Trustee 
 17. Mairead Boland, Saturna Trustee  
 18. Kristina Evans, South Pender Trustee 
 19. Dag Falck, South Pender Trustee  
20. Ken Hunter, Thetis Trustee 
21. Grant Scott, Hornby Trustee 
22. Lee Middleton, Saturna Trustee  
23. Jaime Harris, Salt Spring Trustee 
24. Alex Allen, Hornby Trustee 
25. Joe Bernardo, Gambier Trustee 
26. Ben Mabberley, Galiano Trustee  
Staff Present:  Alexandra Trifonidis, Acting Executive Coordinator/Recorder 
   
Members of the public 
present:            No members of the public were present.  
1. CALL TO ORDER 
 At 1:10 p.m., Chair Luckham called the meeting to order.  
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 

Island Trust Council Special Meeting Minutes 
May 30, 2024 ADOPTED Page 2 of 2 
2.1 Introduction of New Items 
  No new items were introduced.  
2.2 Approval of Agenda 
   By general consent the agenda was approved as presented.   
3. CLOSED SESSION 
  TC-2024-050 
  It was MOVED by Trustee Fast, and SECONDED by Trustee Yates,  
that the Islands Trust Council close this meeting to the public subject to Section 90(1)(a) 
of the Community Charter in order to consider matters related to personal information 
about an identifiable individual who holds or is being considered for a position as an 
officer, employee or agent of the Islands Trust or another position appointed by the 
Islands Trust; and that staff not attend the meeting.  
CARRIED 
 
The meeting was closed to the public at 1:16 p.m. and staff left the meeting.  
4. ADJOURNMENT 
  By general consent the meeting adjourned at 2:07 p.m. 
 
 
 
_________________________ 
Peter Luckham, Chair 
 
Certified Correct: 
 
_________________________ 
Alexandra Trifonidis, Recorder