Islands Trust Council regular meeting, September 9, 2024

[0:00:00] Trustee Gedye: and start with a heartfelt land acknowledgement.

[0:00:07] Trustee Gedye: It looks like rain today, and if that's the case,

[0:00:11] Trustee Gedye: then we might have come out of a hot, dry summer without any fires on Bowen.

[0:00:14] Trustee Gedye: I'm quite glad for that.

[0:00:15] Trustee Gedye: And we get to enjoy this beautiful place in all of its splendor.

[0:00:21] Trustee Gedye: So I acknowledge that I'm living and working and playing

[0:00:25] Trustee Gedye: on unceded territory of the Squamish people,

[0:00:28] Trustee Gedye: and like most of us on Coast Salish territory.

[0:00:32] Trustee Gedye: So, oh, thank you, Laurie.

[0:00:35] Trustee Gedye: There's the formal acknowledgement from the Trust

[0:00:37] Trustee Gedye: with all of the different nations mentioned.

[0:00:41] Trustee Gedye: So here we are working for the Islands Trust

[0:00:45] Trustee Gedye: in this beautiful part of the world.

[0:00:48] Trustee Gedye: So we'll start with the agenda.

[0:00:50] Trustee Gedye: Are there any other new items or requests to reorder the agenda?

[0:00:55] Trustee Gedye: not seeing any hand raised then

[0:00:58] Trustee Luckham: you're too fast there all right chair luckham um well i'm just uh

[0:01:05] Trustee Luckham: noting and i've done a little bit of work i'm just noting that uh trustee bernardo had suggested that

[0:01:12] Trustee Luckham: that i think if i'm not mistaken joe at this meeting that we should have a conversation about

[0:01:17] Trustee Luckham: governance and more ostensibly around the governance report and i have uh you know like

[0:01:25] Trustee Luckham: like a five-minute sort of verbal briefing

[0:01:28] Trustee Luckham: that I would like to provide in that context

[0:01:31] Trustee Luckham: and specifically in a restructuring

[0:01:37] Trustee Luckham: of the leadership team

[0:01:39] Trustee Luckham: and executive committee specifically.

[0:01:43] Trustee Luckham: So I'd just like to ask if we could add that to the agenda.

[0:01:47] Trustee Luckham: And I don't know, Joe,

[0:01:50] Trustee Luckham: if I'm taking the wind out of your sails there or not,

[0:01:52] Trustee Luckham: But under that notion that was presented last week.

[0:01:57] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[0:01:57] Trustee Gedye: We do have to, item number 10, we do have to work on the work program in the matrix.

[0:02:02] Trustee Gedye: And I thought that the review could happen then.

[0:02:07] Trustee Gedye: And there's some of it that we're touching on in terms of these budget items and some of the other planning process in ongoing business.

[0:02:16] Trustee Gedye: So I think it will be covered.

[0:02:19] Trustee Gedye: If you want to add a specific item, that would be with the majority of the trustees agreeing.

[0:02:29] Trustee Gedye: So, Trustee Bernardo, I think your hand was up next, and I see you, Trustee Stamford, as well.

[0:02:33] Trustee Gedye: I think

[0:02:34] Voice 10: Trustee Stamford, her hand was up first.

[0:02:36] Trustee Gedye: Well,

[0:02:36] Trustee Stamford: if it's in response, go ahead.

[0:02:39] Voice 10: Yeah, it is in response.

[0:02:40] Voice 10: response um uh chair getty i was assuming in fact as you just mentioned that um the issue i raised

[0:02:47] Voice 10: my email last week would be part of the discussion of the matrix and the work program because that's

[0:02:52] Voice 10: kind of really what it was all about and i'm assuming like you know i don't have a problem

[0:02:56] Voice 10: with the pressy luck i'm weighing in whatever his thoughts are i mean just to clarify though

[0:03:02] Voice 10: is this like a separate item that you're contemplating peter or it or is it just part

[0:03:07] Voice 10: part of the discussion.

[0:03:08] Trustee Luckham: Well, it could be a separate item. It's a notion that I think I've

[0:03:13] Trustee Luckham: spoken with a couple of you about a restructuring of the executive committee in order to better

[0:03:20] Trustee Luckham: facilitate the decision-making and business of council, but it certainly fits under the

[0:03:27] Trustee Luckham: governance review because indeed that was raised in that. So

[0:03:34] Voice 1: I'm happy to

[0:03:34] Trustee Luckham: have it as part of the

[0:03:35] Trustee Luckham: the matrix and i'll just if i could just have this the time and space for just a five minute

[0:03:40] Trustee Luckham: verbal presentation great all

[0:03:42] Voice 10: right that sounds like slightly different because um uh because

[0:03:46] Voice 10: what i was talking about is really just a wholesale re-examination of the policies in a kind of

[0:03:51] Voice 10: systematic way whereas you have a specific suggestion for immediate action from the sounds

[0:03:57] Voice 10: of it which is sounds like just new

[0:03:59] Trustee Gedye: okay

[0:04:00] Voice 10: if

[0:04:01] Trustee Gedye: i may joe your um whole the review of all of the

[0:04:07] Trustee Gedye: policies that comes up in the um the report from that's attached to the budget requests i believe

[0:04:13] Trustee Gedye: with respect to david marler's um briefing on that

[0:04:18] Trustee Gedye: yes it's related yeah okay so we'll leave

[0:04:22] Trustee Gedye: it as is

[0:04:23] Voice 10: on the agenda uh unless peter thinks he'd like to have a separate item to discuss

[0:04:28] Voice 10: what he's talking about well

[0:04:30] Trustee Luckham: if at the pleasure of the of the committee um perhaps it should be a

[0:04:33] Trustee Luckham: new item and call it executive committee uh leadership um restructure all

[0:04:44] Trustee Gedye: right a new item

[0:04:46] Trustee Gedye: under new business number nine executive committee restructuring um i need a majority

[0:04:54] Trustee Gedye: of agreement on that is there any more discussion all right so let's see if we can get a majority

[0:05:03] Trustee Gedye: to agree sorry um kate louise is your hand up for this or something else i

[0:05:09] Trustee Stamford: very quickly i'm

[0:05:11] Trustee Stamford: I'm going to be away from about 10 to 10.30 in there somewhere.

[0:05:16] Trustee Stamford: But also, I just wanted to, to this particular point, this is not a five-minute discussion.

[0:05:23] Trustee Stamford: I think, to me, this is one of the things I have wanted to discuss.

[0:05:27] Trustee Stamford: It was one of the original concerns that brought the whole governance review into light.

[0:05:35] Trustee Stamford: So just as long as we start this conversation without feeling where the clock is ticking by.

[0:05:42] Trustee Gedye: Okay, if it's new business that we might sort of put some boundaries on it and then get some more feedback and filler.

[0:05:52] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[0:05:53] Trustee Gedye: So I'm going to put it into nine and new business so we'll do a 9.2.

[0:05:59] Trustee Gedye: Thank you.

[0:06:01] Trustee Gedye: All right, any other additions or reorganizing of the agenda.

[0:06:07] Trustee Gedye: All right, so then can I get approval of the amended agenda.

[0:06:13] Trustee Gedye: All those in favor. Thank you.

[0:06:15] Trustee Gedye: all right um are there any members of the public present no

[0:06:23] Voice 3: there's no attendees all right and

[0:06:25] Trustee Gedye: there are no delegations there is no correspondence that i'm aware of um or anything missed there that

[0:06:30] Trustee Gedye: needs to come to the attention of the committee all right so then um all of that then um we get

[0:06:40] Trustee Gedye: down to administrative coordination um i would think that most of this would be by consent i

[0:06:45] Trustee Gedye: I have a very tiny amendment for the August 15th minutes,

[0:06:49] Trustee Gedye: and I've given Laurie a heads up on that,

[0:06:53] Trustee Gedye: and it's just a missing quotation mark around something that we changed

[0:06:57] Trustee Gedye: in one of the amendments.

[0:06:59] Trustee Gedye: Do we need a discussion on that,

[0:07:02] Trustee Gedye: or is it agreed that that's a minor typo?

[0:07:06] Trustee Gedye: I can just go without everybody looking it up.

[0:07:11] Trustee Gedye: Sounds fine.

[0:07:12] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:07:12] Trustee Gedye: All right, so 6.12 and 3, can those be by consent?

[0:07:22] Voice 10: Yes.

[0:07:23] Trustee Gedye: Any objections?

[0:07:25] Trustee Gedye: All right, by general consent, then those items are...

[0:07:28] Trustee Gedye: So we're down to our follow-up action list, 6.4.

[0:07:33] Trustee Gedye: And I noticed that number 3 on that, which is our page 11,

[0:07:38] Trustee Gedye: was the Governance Committee recommend to Trust Council

[0:07:41] Trustee Gedye: that it review the governance review in 2024

[0:07:43] Trustee Gedye: in a specially designated or dedicated session.

[0:07:48] Trustee Gedye: That fell off the edge of our desk, I think,

[0:07:51] Trustee Gedye: when we had that conversation about having the meeting with the consultants.

[0:07:57] Trustee Gedye: And we need to put our heads around what we want to do with that

[0:08:01] Trustee Gedye: in our follow-up action list.

[0:08:04] Trustee Gedye: And that could be part of the matrix, I believe, for later discussion.

[0:08:10] Trustee Gedye: question um and number four and five on our follow-up action list with the trustee remuneration

[0:08:17] Trustee Gedye: that is going to uh come up again in the budget discussions hold on excuse me just for a second

[0:08:26] Trustee Gedye: hi microphone

[0:08:52] Trustee Luckham: thank

[0:08:57] Trustee Gedye: you so um can we agree to go on to the um business and work programs

[0:09:06] Trustee Gedye: programs with those highlights in mind with respect to the follow-up. So the next item then

[0:09:15] Trustee Gedye: would be 7.1, the provincial review of the RFD package for trust council discussion.

[0:09:21] Trustee Gedye: Question for staff, did that get into the RFD matrix or what do you call it, the form

[0:09:28] Trustee Gedye: and before executive council after our special meeting? I didn't do any work on that.

[0:09:37] Voice 7: Yes. No. So the governance committee changes that were made at last meeting, those have been reflected in the letter and the draft RFD, and they've been forwarded to the Trust Council agenda, which is on the Executive

[0:09:48] Voice 7: Committee's agenda for review this week.

[0:09:50] Trustee Gedye: Excellent. Okay. Tick that box off.

[0:09:53] Trustee Gedye: So then there was a conversation.

[0:09:56] Trustee Gedye: Oh, Trustee Middleton is not here.

[0:09:59] Trustee Gedye: There was a conversation between CAO Mobs and Trustee Middleton after that report with respect to his concerns about the CAO report to the governance committee that has been forwarded to trust.

[0:10:16] Trustee Gedye: So without him here, I'm going to put that down to the bottom of the list, assuming that he'll show up.

[0:10:26] Trustee Gedye: and if not then we had voted that it proceed to executive and then to trust council with our

[0:10:35] Trustee Gedye: amendment so I'm not sure what Lee wants to talk about at this point but I think my suggestion is

[0:10:43] Trustee Gedye: that we leave it until he join us he's able to join us okay so that takes us then to 7.2

[0:10:51] Trustee Gedye: recent and proposed meeting procedure amendments pages 13 to 37 so um thank you david for that

[0:11:03] Trustee Gedye: briefing that was helpful um so um we've got two actions now that are underway that are um with

[0:11:16] Trustee Gedye: respect to um finance and executive committee and um the issue of delegations um there's a bunch of

[0:11:24] Trustee Gedye: other policies that weren't attached that have to do with meeting procedures. And then the question

[0:11:32] Trustee Gedye: is, and I think, Joe, this is where your proposal comes up. What do we want to do? What are we

[0:11:40] Trustee Gedye: considering in terms of work? David, did you want to speak to your briefing?

[0:11:46] Voice 9: I don't have a lot to

[0:11:47] Voice 9: add. It's pretty well self-explanatory. But yeah, as you pointed out, it was just to provide you

[0:11:53] Voice 9: with an update as to what Great Northern

[0:11:57] Voice 9: said about it. I did note they

[0:12:01] Voice 9: mentioned meeting procedures in the presentation,

[0:12:06] Voice 9: the PowerPoint presentation to Trust Council, but they didn't

[0:12:09] Voice 9: include a specific recommendation. However, the

[0:12:13] Voice 9: Governance Committee did pick up meeting procedures doing something

[0:12:17] Voice 9: about Bylaw 101 and related policies. So this was just to help you

[0:12:21] Voice 9: to try and define what that work program item would be if you wanted to continue with it.

[0:12:29] Voice 9: So at the bottom of page 14, there are two suggestions of the kind of additional work

[0:12:37] Voice 9: that governance committee may want to do. You may think of something else. These are just a couple

[0:12:41] Voice 9: that seem to make sense from a staff point of view. That's all I have to add. I'm not sure

[0:12:46] Voice 9: the CAO wants to add anything on that.

[0:12:51] Voice 7: If I might share a brief comment.

[0:12:53] Voice 7: it yes please um so part of what's been uh attached to this particular item is a report

[0:13:01] Voice 7: that's going to trust council to amend uh bylaw 101 to align um meeting planning schedule from

[0:13:08] Voice 7: calendar year to fiscal year which aligns with corporate planning principles and we'll just keep

[0:13:13] Voice 7: everything cleaner um so that is already advancing to trust council um it's on their agenda so if the

[0:13:19] Voice 7: committee wishes to comment on that you certainly might but we are also looking for further

[0:13:24] Voice 7: clarification on what this committee might want to dig into in relation to meeting procedures in

[0:13:28] Voice 7: particular bylaw 101 because it is on the priorities matrix with no detail it just says

[0:13:33] Voice 7: meeting procedures bylaw 101 and related procedures so that's why this is here certainly

[0:13:39] Voice 7: open for committee discussion and we're here to support okay

[0:13:46] Trustee Gedye: trustee bernardo yeah

[0:13:49] Voice 10: i just excuse

[0:13:51] Voice 10: Excuse me. I just want to weigh in with encouragement for us as a committee to take out the staff on its, you know, on its query.

[0:14:00] Voice 10: It's like, what do we want to do with these meeting procedures?

[0:14:03] Voice 10: Since we were sworn in, I mean, certainly my own impression has been the meeting procedures are awkward and not particularly effective in giving trustees an opportunity to fully grasp all of the things that any particular issue.

[0:14:22] Voice 10: um implies i mean part of it is like uh we have meetings sometimes quite often in fact at trust

[0:14:30] Voice 10: council where trustees are effectively notified of a proposal for the first time at the trust

[0:14:38] Voice 10: trust council if the proposal or the thing that they're going to be at and they're going to be

[0:14:43] Voice 10: asked to vote on it then and there so it's like notification deliberation and voting is all

[0:14:48] Voice 10: supposed to happen at the same meeting now i know technically that sometimes there's you know

[0:14:55] Voice 10: it'll be an issue that's been bubbling away in the background for a while uh and there has been

[0:15:01] Voice 10: you know theoretically noticed in that respect but what there isn't is you know the the two weeks or

[0:15:08] Voice 10: whatever the period of time is when before when we get the agenda before the meeting that's where the

[0:15:11] Voice 10: substance to be deliberated on not just the notice but the substance to be deliberated on is often

[0:15:17] Voice 10: in the first time that we see it. That's often not enough time. And that's a riddle I think we

[0:15:24] Voice 10: have to solve, is if you look at the meeting dynamics that we often have at Trust Council,

[0:15:33] Voice 10: there's a general air of anxiety when an issue is presented and trustees aren't really

[0:15:41] Voice 10: that sure what the heck they're dealing with. They're not comfortable with it.

[0:15:44] Voice 10: and you will have seen often things get kicked down the road because people are uncomfortable

[0:15:50] Voice 10: with it or sometimes they just vote because they take it on trust neither is a great way to go

[0:15:58] Voice 10: and i i think we do need and i'm just raising this as a specific issue with the meeting procedures

[0:16:04] Voice 10: i think we also have problems with the committee stuff uh and i i think i would like us to make

[0:16:12] Voice 10: this a real priority and i think it it falls in under the category of the the larger issue that

[0:16:20] Voice 10: i was proposing in my email which is let's look at all of these policies and we don't necessarily

[0:16:25] Voice 10: have to do them sequentially we can we can do some in parallel there are policies that we might staff

[0:16:31] Voice 10: might well say look there's a whole handful here that are just junk that we don't even use them

[0:16:35] Voice 10: anymore we can just get rid of those okay fine we can just deal with that sort of thing pretty

[0:16:40] Voice 10: efficiently but something like the meeting policy is something that i think governance committee

[0:16:43] Voice 10: could put a tremendous amount of effort into working with staff to devising a plan a better

[0:16:49] Voice 10: proposal uh for trust council and i've said quite a bit now and more than enough thank you

[0:16:55] Voice 4: trustee

[0:16:56] Voice 12: peterson um thank you chair i think one of the things that stands out for me and and i agree

[0:17:06] Voice 12: certainly with uh with much of what trustee bernardo said there in terms of that sort of

[0:17:12] Voice 12: sense of uh of of getting presented something and uh being expected to uh to make a an informed

[0:17:22] Voice 12: decision on in a short time certainly something that i've brought up in the past in terms of uh

[0:17:27] Voice 12: the the amount of time we have as trust counsel um at our quarterly meetings to to deliberate

[0:17:34] Voice 12: collaborate and um and and whether or not uh there's urgency um this trust council what they

[0:17:43] Voice 12: use the committee of the whole has uh shifted gears somewhat in terms of of being willing to

[0:17:49] Voice 12: meet and and discuss more often i think that's a really positive thing of course the policy

[0:17:54] Voice 12: statement is um taking up most of the oxygen uh at this point but um i i think further use of of

[0:18:04] Voice 12: of procedures like the Committee of the Whole could help.

[0:18:09] Voice 12: That's always been my contention

[0:18:11] Voice 12: that deliberation is a really important part

[0:18:16] Voice 12: of what Trust Council needs to have space to do.

[0:18:22] Voice 12: And then there was one thing that's just highlighted

[0:18:25] Voice 12: on the agenda page that's on our screen there.

[0:18:31] Voice 12: And I just wanted to suggest

[0:18:33] Voice 12: just because it's it's point been pointed out before uh we've traditionally met june september

[0:18:40] Voice 12: december and march and i think in in light of uh certainly any anybody that's going to uh

[0:18:48] Voice 12: going to be attending the uh union of bc municipalities meeting next week i think we

[0:18:55] Voice 12: should have serious consideration of rescheduling the september meeting it puts not only the

[0:19:00] Voice 12: The trustees that go to UBCM, the executive, the Bowen trustees, Trustee Sanford in her role as regional director, but also our staff into really tight, compressed, lots of workload during September.

[0:19:17] Voice 12: So I think that should be on the list for reconsideration. Maybe early October is better, but I just wanted to not miss out that that piece should be on the table for reconsideration.

[0:19:30] Voice 12: thank you

[0:19:32] Trustee Stamford: sorry

[0:19:35] Trustee Gedye: i'm not sure who that was but uh trustee luckham yeah

[0:19:42] Trustee Luckham: um you know i'm just

[0:19:44] Trustee Luckham: reflecting um on what i'm hearing and trustee bernardo uh pointed out quite rightfully that

[0:19:51] Trustee Luckham: uh some of this work burbles along in the background and um and certainly managed by

[0:19:59] Trustee Luckham: committees, executive committee, and then is staged for trust counsel discussion. And indeed,

[0:20:06] Trustee Luckham: to many, that's perhaps the first time they've seen it. And so with respect to policies,

[0:20:13] Trustee Luckham: it's interesting as an example, I think that that is the case with the policies. And I would

[0:20:20] Trustee Luckham: actually like through the chair to hear from David Marler for the reporting that I have seen

[0:20:26] Trustee Luckham: that has also come to council in the past

[0:20:30] Trustee Luckham: that burbling along in the background, let's say,

[0:20:32] Trustee Luckham: with respect to the number of policies

[0:20:36] Trustee Luckham: that exactly capture what Trustee Bernardo has said,

[0:20:40] Trustee Luckham: either obsolete and no longer useful,

[0:20:42] Trustee Luckham: or certainly outdated and in need of adjustment.

[0:20:45] Trustee Luckham: And obviously, David, this is a bit of a surprise for you,

[0:20:49] Trustee Luckham: but I'm sure that off the top of your head,

[0:20:51] Trustee Luckham: you could give us a very brief summary on that activity through the chair.

[0:21:00] Voice 9: Yeah, if I may, through the chair, do you want me to respond?

[0:21:03] Voice 9: Please, thank you.

[0:21:04] Voice 9: Yeah, so there are currently 98 policies of trust counsel. Most of them date from 1992, which is

[0:21:12] Voice 9: when the Islands Trust Act was updated and the policies became important. A lot of them have

[0:21:20] Voice 9: been updated, some have not. We have several policies that relate to similar items, such as

[0:21:27] Voice 9: budget controls or finances, legal, which probably could be consolidated. And I think in my analysis,

[0:21:36] Voice 9: I think if we were to take what was originally 103 policies, you've since eliminated, I believe,

[0:21:43] Voice 9: believe, nine. We could reduce that to about 45 policies with some consolidation and updates.

[0:21:51] Voice 9: Of those, I would say about half of the policies are relatively useful. That is that we do refer

[0:21:59] Voice 9: to them quite often, with the other 50% being somewhat redundant or just out of date. So there

[0:22:09] Voice 9: there is a lot of work to be done. As you're aware, we're members of MIABC, and they did a

[0:22:16] Voice 9: review with us of our risk analysis for the Allens Trust, and their intent is to reduce our risk.

[0:22:23] Voice 9: And the one area that we can reduce risk is by making sure that Trust Council policies are up

[0:22:28] Voice 9: to date. So their recommendation is that on a five-year basis, the Trust Council reviews all

[0:22:34] Voice 9: all of its policies. So I think to make that work, there's a need to reduce the policies to those

[0:22:39] Voice 9: that really do mean something and remove those that are just creating administration or duplicating

[0:22:47] Voice 9: legislation, and then develop some kind of a program to make sure those policies are kept

[0:22:53] Voice 9: up to date with Trust Council.

[0:22:57] Trustee Gedye: All right. So there is going to be a larger discussion around

[0:23:01] Trustee Gedye: how much time and effort this is going to require in that budget discussion.

[0:23:05] Trustee Gedye: I should trustee Bernardo I

[0:23:09] Voice 7: may sorry

[0:23:10] Trustee Gedye: sorry yes CAO Moms

[0:23:12] Voice 7: um thanks chair I didn't mean to

[0:23:15] Voice 7: interject there but um what director Marler is speaking to is um a larger concept of reviewing

[0:23:20] Voice 7: all of our policies this particular item is just looking at the meeting procedure bylaw and its

[0:23:25] Voice 7: related policy so there's four related policies um that are named in the agenda package on page 14

[0:23:30] Voice 7: those are the ones that are primarily related to meeting procedures and the bylaw that would

[0:23:35] Voice 7: would be part of this particular discussion wanted to clarify that all

[0:23:39] Trustee Gedye: right so i think the governance

[0:23:41] Trustee Gedye: review talked about the meeting bylaw quite broadly and what trustee bernardo was talking

[0:23:52] Trustee Gedye: about is a much larger project and that's part of the discussion with respect to the budget

[0:23:56] Trustee Gedye: allocation that'd be a fair summary yeah

[0:24:01] Voice 10: trustee

[0:24:03] Trustee Gedye: patrick i

[0:24:04] Voice 10: actually i had my hand up and i took it

[0:24:05] Voice 10: down before trust or cao mobs when she um had her point to make so all right um if i may proceed yes

[0:24:17] Voice 10: thank you um i and i'm glad you made that point chair giddy of distinguishing that we're getting

[0:24:24] Voice 10: a little sidetracked here in the sense of the the larger policy question is for later discussion

[0:24:29] Voice 10: We're just dealing right now with this narrower and specific proposal to amend the meeting by-law for some specific purposes.

[0:24:40] Voice 10: And I don't have any problem with any of these changes, but I'm anticipating that, you know, in keeping with my larger point, that I view this as an interim change to the meeting by-law and that we have a larger program that we ought to be considering.

[0:24:54] Voice 10: and i don't know i doubt if this is the time for us to start brainstorming those changes and i

[0:25:00] Voice 10: appreciate trustee peterson's point but you know now we're standing i don't we don't really have

[0:25:06] Voice 10: the time to start getting into the big solve the meeting by law issue at this time just in a very

[0:25:13] Voice 10: general way uh if we are going to discuss potential changes uh the direction i'm thinking

[0:25:18] Voice 10: thinking governance committee should at least consider and discuss is the idea of having more

[0:25:24] Voice 10: frequent trust council meetings by zoom for the purposes of briefing trustees and giving them an

[0:25:31] Voice 10: opportunity to deliberate on potential proposals and i'm thinking you know one or two hour meetings

[0:25:38] Voice 10: every month by zoom and then the decisions would still be made at the quarterly trust council

[0:25:43] Voice 10: meetings so that we'd end up with a hybrid situation where we have in-person meetings

[0:25:47] Voice 10: every quarter as we do now and then uh wait a sec can

[0:25:51] Voice 6: we hold on this wait

[0:25:53] Trustee Gedye: a sec can we hold

[0:25:54] Trustee Gedye: on the specific ideas and suggestions i think in terms of our work program we have to decide how

[0:26:00] Trustee Gedye: big or how small and um we've got something in front of us now that uh we can decide fairly

[0:26:06] Trustee Gedye: quickly i would hope that uh whether or not we've got any objections to these interim

[0:26:10] Trustee Gedye: uh proposals and then working figuring out our work plan how do we go in what are we going to

[0:26:16] Trustee Gedye: to tackle and how are we going to break it up how do we eat this elephant enough

[0:26:20] Voice 10: and in that case

[0:26:22] Voice 10: no objection to this this specific proposal thanks

[0:26:25] Trustee Gedye: trustee patrick yeah

[0:26:28] Voice 3: i just see this as an

[0:26:29] Voice 3: information piece no action necessary other than um i do encourage every member of the governance

[0:26:35] Voice 3: committee to be out there looking at other forms of government and their meeting procedures

[0:26:41] Voice 3: and the way they run their their business efficiently and effectively i've been monitoring

[0:26:47] Voice 3: the crd board i know that's different beastie but effective use of committees uh no walk-in of uh

[0:26:55] Voice 3: stuff from you know one individual it's if there's process and it works um so we don't have to

[0:27:02] Voice 3: reinvent the wheel christy stamford yeah

[0:27:09] Trustee Stamford: i think um there's all sorts of opportunities here and if

[0:27:14] Trustee Stamford: the governance committee this is exactly where we do do the deep dive that's the whole point of this

[0:27:20] Trustee Stamford: was to do those those heavier discussions there are different opportunities different ways of

[0:27:26] Trustee Stamford: setting up meetings again i keep going back to that um um the overall premise for the original

[0:27:34] Trustee Stamford: governance review which was tighten up that budget and make things more efficient

[0:27:41] Trustee Stamford: so if i'm using that lens there is a lot of movement but supposedly i mean that's where

[0:27:49] Trustee Stamford: we're trying to get to so looking at it with efficiency um and i'm looking forward to the

[0:27:56] Trustee Stamford: larger discussion um hopefully that is just working on governance policies um because that's

[0:28:04] Trustee Stamford: where we need to to focus thank you all

[0:28:10] Trustee Gedye: right um do we have any comments um with respect to these

[0:28:16] Trustee Gedye: two actions that are currently underway the fiscal year changing the scheduling

[0:28:25] Trustee Gedye: of meetings it it doesn't feel like it's other than the September suggestion from

[0:28:29] Trustee Gedye: trustee Peterson it doesn't feel like it's any different it's just setting it

[0:28:34] Trustee Gedye: up so that it fits better with the fiscal year is there any discussion

[0:28:40] Trustee Gedye: around that I don't see any hand raised okay and then the there's another issue

[0:28:46] Trustee Gedye: that's gone to the executive committee with respect to the handling of delegations and i

[0:28:51] Trustee Gedye: assume that that is um something in the works we haven't heard about that yet but um we will be

[0:28:59] Trustee Gedye: hearing about it at the september meeting cao mobs yes

[0:29:05] Voice 7: that's what i was going to mention there's

[0:29:06] Voice 7: thought material on that uh going to september's trust council all

[0:29:11] Trustee Gedye: right so is there anything that

[0:29:13] Trustee Gedye: we want to comment on or make suggestions not having any of the background or the reports but

[0:29:19] Trustee Gedye: But anything beforehand coming out of anybody's ideas?

[0:29:26] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:29:27] Trustee Gedye: So we'll wait and see on that one.

[0:29:29] Trustee Gedye: Any other comments with respect to this particular briefing?

[0:29:36] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:29:37] Trustee Gedye: So the bigger question.

[0:29:38] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, Trustee Middleton, your name appears as Trustee Peterson.

[0:29:41] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, I didn't get an invite this morning, the reminder invite.

[0:29:45] Trustee Middleton: So Tim sent me his invite.

[0:29:47] Trustee Middleton: So I'm Trustee Peterson, Jr.

[0:29:49] Trustee Middleton: for purposes of this meeting and so others

[0:29:53] Trustee Gedye: how nice and

[0:29:54] Trustee Middleton: anything that i say in error

[0:29:56] Trustee Middleton: is trustee peterson's fault not my own

[0:30:00] Trustee Gedye: There you go.

[0:30:01] Trustee Gedye: That's an easy out.

[0:30:02] Trustee Middleton: I was just going to say one thing, I think, because there was reference in the report to Greg Northern's review.

[0:30:11] Trustee Middleton: They strongly felt that facilitation of the agenda was a role that would be played by the secretariat function that I know is somewhat vague in people's mind.

[0:30:24] Trustee Middleton: But the idea being that the secretary of the Islands Trust Council reports to the chair of the Islands Trust Council and works with the CAO and all members of council to basically build meeting agendas.

[0:30:37] Trustee Middleton: So that way you ensure that there's basically a political direction, there's leadership and there's consistency and there's actually facilitation between staff and the political arm of the trust in terms of building the agenda.

[0:30:52] Trustee Middleton: So I think their comments really can't be taken in isolation without consideration of that secretariat function in building the agenda.

[0:31:01] Trustee Middleton: Just a point to note.

[0:31:06] Trustee Gedye: Thank you.

[0:31:07] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Luckham.

[0:31:09] Trustee Luckham: I'm just wondering whether David expects some direction with respect to the edits that exist and that this would be as intended as an interim change to the policy in order to set up the meeting schedule synchronized with the fiscal year sooner than later, or is this just going to sit?

[0:31:35] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, Director Marler?

[0:31:38] Voice 9: Yeah, no, this was provided for information mainly because the meeting procedures by law 101 is on your work program.

[0:31:46] Voice 9: So it's just to help you to determine how you want to proceed.

[0:31:50] Voice 9: I just want you to know what's happening.

[0:31:52] Voice 9: So this those amendments are going to council.

[0:31:55] Voice 9: If you had any comments on them, sure, you can provide them.

[0:31:59] Voice 9: But council will be looking at that draft by law in September.

[0:32:03] Voice 9: All

[0:32:06] Trustee Gedye: right. Just lost my screen. So, let's open up the bigger discussion. We've got the Bylaw 101 plus these four policies that were attached on page 14 of the briefing.

[0:32:26] Trustee Gedye: thing and um then uh david has mentioned that there were 98 policies outstanding down from 103

[0:32:38] Trustee Gedye: and that um could be reduced to about 45 half are useful um so that is um just organizing all of

[0:32:49] Trustee Gedye: that is there such a thing as a policy manual like a book that has them all in one place um

[0:32:57] Voice 9: Yeah, if I may, Chair.

[0:32:59] Trustee Gedye: Yes.

[0:33:00] Voice 9: Yeah, they're all online, but I have created a single PDF of all of them,

[0:33:04] Voice 9: so I could share that with you if you want.

[0:33:07] Voice 9: I find it easier to search for items such as,

[0:33:12] Voice 9: when I find all the policies related to the executive committee,

[0:33:15] Voice 9: it allows you to search the word executive, and you can find where it shows up.

[0:33:20] Voice 9: So it's just an easy way to search it.

[0:33:24] Voice 9: So, yeah, we do have that.

[0:33:25] Trustee Gedye: That monster exists.

[0:33:27] Trustee Gedye: um that there is the elephant so then um it was require um and i would assume that we need to

[0:33:38] Trustee Gedye: spend some time figuring out how much time it would require for staff to make their suggestions

[0:33:43] Trustee Gedye: and recommendations and that i think is part of the budget piece that is uh been suggested for

[0:33:50] Trustee Gedye: later part of the conversation so um i would submit i would suggest that this committee needs

[0:33:56] Trustee Gedye: needs to have that first brush with this by staff before we start going into it.

[0:34:05] Trustee Gedye: CAO Mons, your hand is up.

[0:34:11] Voice 7: Yeah, if I may, I think the larger discussion about all of our policies should wait until

[0:34:17] Voice 7: we get to that budget discussion or review of the matrix.

[0:34:21] Voice 7: For this particular item, for the committee's information, we're submitting a change from

[0:34:25] Voice 7: calendar year to fiscal year and I didn't see any dissension related to that particular change so

[0:34:31] Voice 7: that's great. The four policies that are listed there if governance wishes for staff to dig into

[0:34:38] Voice 7: those policies that particularly relate to meeting procedures which is on the matrix

[0:34:43] Voice 7: governance committee could pass a resolution directing staff to do that and also directing

[0:34:47] Voice 7: staff to submit a further review of bylaw 101 if they would like. I think keeping the

[0:34:55] Voice 7: conversation is focused to bylaw 101 and those four meeting procedures for this particular piece

[0:34:59] Voice 7: and getting direction uh would be useful of course this uh lives on the committee's matrix it says

[0:35:04] Voice 7: bylaw 101 and related policies and there's no detail as to what the committee wishes for staff

[0:35:09] Voice 7: to undertake in relation to that um so that would be the piece that we're seeking today um and we

[0:35:16] Voice 7: can review the larger policy piece um when we get further into the agenda trustee

[0:35:21] Trustee Gedye: bernardo uh i

[0:35:23] Voice 10: I appreciate the interim CEO's comment.

[0:35:26] Voice 10: I think that's right, which is, as Chair, you pointed out yourself,

[0:35:29] Voice 10: the time to discuss the bigger picture is actually when we get into the budget part of it

[0:35:32] Voice 10: and possibly when my business item comes up.

[0:35:36] Voice 10: I just had one comment with respect to the specific thing that's in front of us.

[0:35:40] Voice 10: We've got this briefing for information.

[0:35:42] Voice 10: It is going to Trust Council.

[0:35:46] Voice 10: Staff wanted our input.

[0:35:47] Voice 10: We heard from Trustee Peterson, and I would just want to make the minor point that

[0:35:52] Voice 10: when staff presents the issue to trust council um in its briefing memo and its oral remarks

[0:35:59] Voice 10: uh probably a good idea to roll in trustee peterson's observation about the awkwardness

[0:36:04] Voice 10: of the september meeting and raise that as a potential issue that trust council might want

[0:36:09] Voice 10: to consider which is shifting it over to october uh because that's the one concrete observation

[0:36:14] Voice 10: we've had about that relates to the um specific thing that's in front of us on this agenda item

[0:36:20] Voice 10: other than that i'm not hearing any other input from the governance committee uh on this item

[0:36:26] Voice 10: that would necessarily need to go to trust um uh council thank you

[0:36:31] Voice 3: trustee patrick yeah i concur

[0:36:34] Voice 3: that um i think we need to have the greater discussion and this is a subset of that rather

[0:36:39] Voice 3: than have this discussion so we can wait that

[0:36:48] Trustee Gedye: was a little bit confusing for me which is the subset

[0:36:50] Trustee Gedye: set and which is the major and what do you my

[0:36:52] Voice 3: apologies um you know we're going to talk about

[0:36:55] Voice 3: overall how to address the 9400 and whatever policies that there are this is four of them

[0:37:02] Voice 3: um so i think we should have the discussion of a you know uh trusting mobs whatever her name is

[0:37:09] Voice 3: uh say oh mobs sorry can't do the titles um was saying if we wanted to give direction on these

[0:37:15] Voice 3: these four. I'm saying I have no direction on these four. Okay,

[0:37:19] Trustee Gedye: thank you. All right, so then

[0:37:22] Trustee Gedye: dealing first of all with what's in front of us now on the agenda, then the comment, is it fair

[0:37:28] Trustee Gedye: to say that the comments coming out of this committee are that we should re-examine the

[0:37:32] Trustee Gedye: September meeting? Would that present a problem with respect to our fiscal year? CAO Mobs? No?

[0:37:43] Voice 7: No. No problem. We would simply ask Trust Council to consider whether or not the September timing remains viable given the standard timing of UBCM and it would be up to Trust Council to deliberate that.

[0:37:55] Trustee Gedye: Okay. Director Marler, did you have your hand up for a second there?

[0:38:01] Voice 9: I did, but it's here. I'll cover it. Thanks.

[0:38:03] Voice 9: Thanks.

[0:38:04] Trustee Gedye: Okay. So do we want to make a comment? I agree with Director Peterson or Trustee Peterson in terms of September is crazy, wildly busy, especially when you've got meetings with ministers.

[0:38:21] Trustee Gedye: So, I don't know how Trust staff are handling it, but I know that the Bowen Council and staff are going slightly crazy. So, I would certainly endorse. Do we need a motion in terms of making a comment?

[0:38:42] Voice 7: If the committee wants to give direction to staff on this topic or make a recommendation to Trust Council related to this topic, a resolution is needed. Otherwise, nothing is required.

[0:38:52] Voice 7: fire trustee

[0:38:54] Voice 4: peterson i

[0:38:57] Voice 12: will take a stab at making a motion um which should be that the

[0:39:02] Voice 12: governance committee recommend to trust council a reconsideration of september trust council

[0:39:12] Voice 12: timing um to october you

[0:39:21] Trustee Gedye: have a seconder i'll second that okay and um any discussion on that

[0:39:30] Trustee Gedye: motion not seeing any hand oh trustee patrick do

[0:39:37] Voice 3: we need to be specific about the october just to

[0:39:39] Voice 3: reschedule just because if we're trying to if we have another if this changes to this policy or to

[0:39:45] Voice 3: a realign with our fiscal year there could be movement all around couldn't there cao mobs i

[0:39:57] Voice 7: don't think as long as we're planning on a fiscal year it doesn't matter when the meeting dates land

[0:40:02] Voice 7: it just helps our budgeting and planning purposes if whatever conversations we have around the

[0:40:07] Voice 7: timing focus on the fiscal year for this particular resolution I'll just make a comment

[0:40:13] Voice 7: it might be better well the committee can suggest everything but to say October in particular without

[0:40:20] Voice 7: doing a deep analysis of whether or not there's significant impacts to our work and our work plan

[0:40:26] Voice 7: if we were to move it to October as opposed to for example the end of August or another

[0:40:31] Voice 7: other particular time might be challenging. One of the things I'm just thinking of, in particular,

[0:40:36] Voice 7: is around the budgeting process. And if we don't have the September Trust Council budget assumptions

[0:40:42] Voice 7: don't advance to October, actually into the budget cycle. At that point, also, if UBCM is

[0:40:47] Voice 7: in September, it's actually great if Trust Council can have conversations around what it wants to

[0:40:51] Voice 7: advance at UBCM. And so it might be earlier. So I would suggest leaving the particulars of the

[0:40:57] Voice 7: the timing open trustee

[0:41:00] Voice 4: peterson i'm

[0:41:02] Voice 12: perfectly happy to remove a reference to a time and just

[0:41:07] Voice 12: leave it at reconsider the timing of september trust council okay

[0:41:13] Trustee Gedye: trustee bernardo yeah i'm not

[0:41:16] Voice 10: sure we need a resolution i mean aren't we really asking staff just to look into the just really

[0:41:20] Voice 10: following up on what uh interim cao moms are saying uh we just need staff to look into the

[0:41:26] Voice 10: the merits and demerits of moving the September meeting

[0:41:30] Voice 10: to some other time, can't we just ask staff to do that

[0:41:34] Voice 10: and be prepared to report when it presents this

[0:41:37] Voice 10: to Trust Council?

[0:41:39] Voice 10: Do we really need a resolution for that?

[0:41:40] Trustee Gedye: Well, we've got a resolution, so let's deal with that.

[0:41:43] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:41:45] Trustee Gedye: Director Marler.

[0:41:47] Voice 9: Yeah, I just want to point out that the months

[0:41:51] Voice 9: of the meetings were established in By-law 101,

[0:41:53] Voice 9: so that would be a by-law amendment to Trust Council.

[0:42:00] Trustee Gedye: All right. So when this comes up in our September meeting, those are the recommendations from

[0:42:06] Trustee Gedye: governance committee. Um, and the, all of the ramifications and the bylaw amendments and all

[0:42:12] Trustee Gedye: the rest of it will have to be, um, sorted out at that meeting. I would think simple recommendation

[0:42:19] Trustee Gedye: at this point. All right. So I have the governance committee recommended trust council that we

[0:42:27] Trustee Gedye: We reconsidered the timing of the September Trust Council meeting.

[0:42:33] Trustee Gedye: All those in favor?

[0:42:37] Trustee Gedye: Any opposed?

[0:42:41] Trustee Gedye: Carried.

[0:42:42] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:42:44] Trustee Gedye: Back to the elephant.

[0:42:46] Trustee Gedye: The bigger picture is 98 policies.

[0:42:51] Trustee Gedye: Not all of those have, probably very few of them,

[0:42:56] Trustee Gedye: have anything to do with governance or meetings.

[0:43:00] Trustee Gedye: Point of order.

[0:43:01] Voice 10: Point of order.

[0:43:02] Voice 10: Yes.

[0:43:03] Voice 10: Should we be sticking to the agenda here and dealing with, again, you're returning to an item I think we're going to discuss later?

[0:43:09] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:43:10] Trustee Gedye: Fair enough.

[0:43:13] Trustee Gedye: Where's that agenda?

[0:43:14] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[0:43:15] Trustee Gedye: So then let's backtrack to 7.1, the provincial review of the RFD package for Trust Council.

[0:43:25] Trustee Gedye: After our August the 15th special meeting, Trustee Middleton, are you still with us?

[0:43:34] Trustee Gedye: Yep.

[0:43:35] Trustee Gedye: There was a question that you raised with respect to possibly, I'm not sure what it was, the CAO report that was attached that was going to us and to Trust Council or some other comment that you made at the end of that meeting that you wanted to discuss.

[0:43:57] Trustee Middleton: Yes, thank you. Yes, I'm just not sure if there was anything in the agenda package or if it was just referenced in the agenda.

[0:44:04] Trustee Middleton: 7

[0:44:06] Trustee Gedye: .1. Oh, no, it

[0:44:07] Trustee Gedye: was a reference back to the August 15th committee pack or agenda package with the CAO report.

[0:44:17] Trustee Gedye: report so that's at the top yes

[0:44:21] Trustee Middleton: so um yeah just basically just a general comment is that um

[0:44:28] Trustee Middleton: my understanding was that once the committee had treated um a topic as in uh discuss the letter had

[0:44:39] Trustee Middleton: our subcommittee produced a draft we talked about it and endorsed it that that would then change

[0:44:46] Trustee Middleton: what would be presented to Trust Council because it would reflect the work that the committee had

[0:44:51] Trustee Middleton: done. We obviously reviewed in detail the work of the CAO and staff in terms of their

[0:45:02] Trustee Middleton: analysis of what the letter meant and what it would mean in terms of workload and what

[0:45:06] Trustee Middleton: their suggestions might be. And in sum, we said thank you for the input. We still wish to proceed

[0:45:14] Trustee Middleton: with this letter as a political activity,

[0:45:16] Trustee Middleton: not one necessarily driven by staff,

[0:45:20] Trustee Middleton: by the concerns that staff laid out.

[0:45:22] Trustee Middleton: We basically didn't dispute the concerns.

[0:45:25] Trustee Middleton: We just said we were doing something differently here.

[0:45:27] Trustee Middleton: So my feeling would be that that would somehow frame

[0:45:30] Trustee Middleton: the presentation of the RFD to trust counsel,

[0:45:33] Trustee Middleton: that the RFD would effectively,

[0:45:36] Trustee Middleton: the RFD package would effectively be modified

[0:45:38] Trustee Middleton: by the work we as a committee did.

[0:45:41] Trustee Middleton: Because my concern otherwise is,

[0:45:43] Trustee Middleton: if the committee does work to add efficiency to the work of trust council but that work doesn't

[0:45:50] Trustee Middleton: really um get reflected in terms of the mode of presentation um we're missing out an opportunity

[0:45:59] Trustee Middleton: here we're not taking advantage of the of the time or the or the uh the insights of the committee

[0:46:06] Trustee Middleton: um and now i could be corrected but my understanding of the rfd package is it would

[0:46:10] Trustee Middleton: would basically be the same to Trust Counsel

[0:46:14] Trustee Middleton: as that which we received as a committee.

[0:46:18] Trustee Middleton: So I guess that would be the first check-in.

[0:46:20] Trustee Middleton: And if I'm wrong about that, okay, that's great.

[0:46:23] Trustee Middleton: We can then discuss further what the package might be,

[0:46:25] Trustee Middleton: how the form of presentation of the letter

[0:46:28] Trustee Middleton: might be to Trust Counsel.

[0:46:34] Trustee Middleton: So that would be the first question is,

[0:46:36] Trustee Middleton: is the package to Trust Counsel exactly as we received it,

[0:46:41] Trustee Middleton: or is there a different presentation of the RFD to Trust Council?

[0:46:48] Trustee Gedye: Well, there's already some amendments to it

[0:46:50] Trustee Gedye: because we changed the question of the signatures

[0:46:53] Trustee Gedye: and there was another point that we had spoken to

[0:46:59] Trustee Gedye: that took the advice and followed, I think, the report.

[0:47:03] Trustee Gedye: CAO Mobs?

[0:47:06] Voice 7: Thanks, Chair.

[0:47:07] Voice 7: You are correct.

[0:47:08] Voice 7: There were a few changes that were directed by Governance Committee,

[0:47:10] Voice 7: So those have been reflected in the draft letter and the draft RFD that's been forwarded to the Draft Trust Council agenda.

[0:47:18] Voice 7: That is with the Executive Committee. They'll be looking at it on Wednesday.

[0:47:22] Voice 7: So the CAO comments do travel with the RFD to Trust Council.

[0:47:28] Voice 7: Those are staff comments. They're not influenced by trustees.

[0:47:32] Voice 7: trustees, those comments, because a few of the changes that governance committee made

[0:47:39] Voice 7: were in response to some of the CAO comments, those comments would be adjusted before this

[0:47:46] Voice 7: package advances to trust counsel. So one of the ones that just comes to mind immediately

[0:47:50] Voice 7: was aligning the wording of the object to align with what the act says so that there's no debate

[0:47:55] Voice 7: or conversation that happens around that in relation to this particular exercise. And so

[0:48:01] Voice 7: So the comments that are made in the CAO report

[0:48:03] Voice 7: related to that particular item would come out

[0:48:05] Voice 7: because of course that recommendation was undertaken.

[0:48:09] Voice 7: The remainder of the comments from the CAO,

[0:48:12] Voice 7: I will be updating them a little bit for some conversation

[0:48:15] Voice 7: that happened at the governance committee,

[0:48:16] Voice 7: but largely they will remain as they are.

[0:48:19] Voice 7: When Trust Council is looking at this exercise,

[0:48:22] Voice 7: one of the ways that I approach every exercise,

[0:48:26] Voice 7: which has always been appreciated by trustees

[0:48:28] Voice 7: and Trust Council is to examine issues from all perspectives.

[0:48:33] Voice 7: So my CAO comments are looking to provide information

[0:48:37] Voice 7: on all of the options and all of the data pieces

[0:48:41] Voice 7: that Trust Council should consider in this exercise.

[0:48:43] Voice 7: There's no staff recommendation.

[0:48:46] Voice 7: What's in the CAO report is simply council may want

[0:48:49] Voice 7: to consider these various factors.

[0:48:50] Voice 7: There's nothing in there that says staff

[0:48:51] Voice 7: are making a particular recommendation one way or the other

[0:48:54] Voice 7: but it's important for the decision maker

[0:48:55] Voice 7: to have all the information.

[0:48:58] Voice 7: Hopefully that answers the question that Trustee Middleton has posed.

[0:49:03] Voice 4: Trustee Bernardo?

[0:49:06] Voice 10: Yeah, it's fair enough.

[0:49:07] Voice 10: I mean, the staff's comments are for the staff to contribute its best professional opinion,

[0:49:13] Voice 10: whatever it is, whether we agree with it or not.

[0:49:16] Voice 10: I would make one comment, though, which is when we did look at the memo in the first instance

[0:49:21] Voice 10: since at Governance Committee we discussed it

[0:49:24] Voice 10: and frankly decided that the observations

[0:49:31] Voice 10: that being made in the memo

[0:49:32] Voice 10: were not particularly germane to the matter at hand.

[0:49:35] Voice 10: But that's fair enough.

[0:49:36] Voice 10: I mean, there are different perspectives on this.

[0:49:38] Voice 10: I would just ask that there was a, you know,

[0:49:41] Voice 10: and this is just my own view,

[0:49:42] Voice 10: that at the meeting,

[0:49:46] Voice 10: I don't think the reasoning behind the CAO comments

[0:49:50] Voice 10: was particularly clear.

[0:49:52] Voice 10: the comments were clear enough about what the suggestions were but why those suggestions

[0:49:56] Voice 10: were being made uh i think it might be helpful uh as uh you uh revise your comments you know

[0:50:04] Voice 10: in whatever way you see fit to present to trust council to consider that you might want to

[0:50:08] Voice 10: elaborate on the reasoning a little bit more because i think the discussion we had at a

[0:50:12] Voice 10: governor's committee was colored and a bit confused frankly because um as trustees objected

[0:50:21] Voice 10: some of the things that were in the comments, Julia, you ended up having to explain a lot,

[0:50:29] Voice 10: and the explanations made sense, but they weren't in the memo. So I think it might be helpful for

[0:50:34] Voice 10: Trust Council to kind of elaborate more on your reason, just for the effectiveness of the

[0:50:38] Voice 10: conversation. But, you know, to reiterate what Interim CAO Mob said, staff has its independent

[0:50:46] Voice 10: independent role to play. And it has its own discretion there. So they get to say what they

[0:50:52] Voice 10: want. Thank you. CEO Moms.

[0:50:57] Voice 7: Thanks, Trustee Murata. That's helpful. You know, I want to be able to

[0:51:01] Voice 7: best support Trust Council. So if some further groundwork is needed to explain some of the

[0:51:06] Voice 7: rationale, I'm happy to take that on. One of the things I think is important for this community

[0:51:10] Voice 7: to consider is you know as there's information going to trust council to encourage consideration

[0:51:18] Voice 7: of all aspects related to this piece of work it would be really useful for this committee

[0:51:23] Voice 7: to understand why they have taken a particular direction over another because that will help

[0:51:29] Voice 7: facilitate the conversation and the decision making at the trust council table so where there

[0:51:34] Voice 7: are three options related to timing for example it's important that this committee understand

[0:51:39] Voice 7: and be able to articulate and explain

[0:51:41] Voice 7: why a particular approach has been taken

[0:51:44] Voice 7: over and above the other approaches.

[0:51:47] Voice 7: So that's an encouragement to this committee

[0:51:50] Voice 7: to really be able to be clearly articulating that

[0:51:53] Voice 7: so that the conversation doesn't sort of take unnecessary time.

[0:52:01] Trustee Gedye: Percy Middleton.

[0:52:06] Trustee Middleton: Yeah, thank you, Trey.

[0:52:07] Trustee Middleton: I do think we've had a failure procedure here,

[0:52:09] Trustee Middleton: to be perfectly honest.

[0:52:10] Trustee Middleton: This RFD is being presented to council by this committee.

[0:52:15] Trustee Middleton: Yet this committee has not presented a document that frames the RFD to council.

[0:52:19] Trustee Middleton: We're basically piggybacking on some adjustments to the documentation that we received as the

[0:52:28] Trustee Middleton: governance committee at the last meeting.

[0:52:30] Trustee Middleton: My understanding was we had this meeting prior to the executive committee meeting so that

[0:52:34] Trustee Middleton: we may in fact fashion the documentation or at least have input into the documentation

[0:52:39] Trustee Middleton: that we wanted then to be presented to trust council.

[0:52:42] Trustee Middleton: Because as I'm sure you're all aware, the framing of that letter is crucial in terms of our ability to basically have our colleagues endorse it, which is our interest.

[0:52:52] Trustee Middleton: I mean, we're not disinterested here in presenting this letter.

[0:52:55] Trustee Middleton: And frankly, in my view, we're sort of casting it to the winds here without actually framing it for our colleagues.

[0:53:02] Trustee Middleton: We're, as I think our CEO just said, we've not given our rationale.

[0:53:09] Trustee Middleton: Well, we haven't because we've not been given the opportunity to create an RFD to frame the letter's presentation to council.

[0:53:17] Trustee Middleton: It's a failure of procedure.

[0:53:20] Trustee Gedye: But there is an RFD that's going to council.

[0:53:24] Trustee Gedye: We did end up with the RFD.

[0:53:26] Trustee Middleton: It's

[0:53:27] Trustee Gedye: the same one we

[0:53:27] Trustee Middleton: treated, though, no, is it not, Chair?

[0:53:29] Trustee Middleton: like it surely it is modified through the process of the committee otherwise what does the committee

[0:53:36] Trustee Middleton: sit for there

[0:53:37] Trustee Gedye: were several amendments and those have been incorporated it's my understanding

[0:53:42] Trustee Gedye: yeah

[0:53:43] Trustee Middleton: my past experience the committee would frame the rfd it's always been what's happened it's not

[0:53:51] Trustee Middleton: happened here i don't know why if

[0:53:55] Voice 7: i made sure yes

[0:53:56] Trustee Gedye: please um

[0:53:58] Voice 7: so the working groups uh formed

[0:54:00] Voice 7: by governance committee got together to draft that rfd on behalf of the committee that rfd

[0:54:06] Voice 7: did come forward at the august uh meeting which was a special meeting of this committee to review

[0:54:12] Voice 7: that rfd and that was the process and that was the opportunity for this committee to weigh in and say

[0:54:17] Voice 7: we believe there's pieces missing from the rfd we want to add this we want to take this out we want

[0:54:22] Voice 7: to amend it we want to change this rfd to reflect what the collective will of the committee is and

[0:54:28] Voice 7: and to frame the rationale

[0:54:29] Voice 7: for why we're presenting the letter as we have.

[0:54:32] Voice 7: So that opportunity did exist

[0:54:34] Voice 7: and it did take place at that August meeting.

[0:54:38] Voice 7: Governance Committee made a few changes to the RFD,

[0:54:41] Voice 7: nothing of great substance,

[0:54:43] Voice 7: and then passed a resolution to advance the RFD

[0:54:47] Voice 7: and the draft letter to council as amended.

[0:54:50] Voice 7: So I don't think there's been a process failure here.

[0:54:53] Voice 7: If this committee is looking back and thinks,

[0:54:58] Voice 7: oh no there's a bunch of changes we should have made that we didn't that's a different story but

[0:55:01] Voice 7: i don't think that the the procedure um was an erroneous one

[0:55:08] Trustee Gedye: christy bernardo yeah uh

[0:55:12] Voice 10: this is a little troubling i mean yes we've advanced the uh request for decision and we

[0:55:19] Voice 10: made some minor changes to um the substance of the rfd and the letter uh they weren't and you

[0:55:28] Voice 10: You know, the rationale is there in the RFD.

[0:55:32] Voice 10: What we don't have, I think what Trustee Milton is, and he'll have to correct me on this if I'm wrong,

[0:55:38] Voice 10: what we don't have here is a response to the staff's comments.

[0:55:45] Voice 10: And I think that may be what we're talking about here, because it is a little unusual to have something going from a committee,

[0:55:53] Voice 10: there's the RFD that's in it, and then the staff's comments that go with it.

[0:55:57] Voice 10: But I mean, there's no, let's not pussyfoot around.

[0:56:02] Voice 10: They counsel delay and second guessing about the strategy that we're undertaking with the letter.

[0:56:11] Voice 10: And so what we have is an RFD that takes one perspective.

[0:56:14] Voice 10: Staff has, frankly, what looks like an opposing perspective.

[0:56:18] Voice 10: And what we don't have is a rejoinder to that.

[0:56:20] Voice 10: And I don't know if it's a failure of process, but it certainly wasn't clear to me when we had the August meeting that it was, you know, yes, it was open to us to amend our part of the RFD, but it wasn't discussed and it wasn't raised the idea that we were going to, it might be prudent for us to put a rejoinder to staff's comments.

[0:56:44] Voice 10: And I'm not sure that's a desirable thing to do. So it's a little problematic in terms of how we deal with this. But I do take what Interim CEO Mobs says seriously. I think it's an important point, which is when this does go before Trust Council, it's going to have the RFD and it's going to have staff's comments.

[0:57:06] Voice 10: but uh we need to come prepared to elaborate on what we say in the rfd to to defend what

[0:57:14] Voice 10: what we've agreed on like to explain what we're doing and uh i don't think it'll do for us to

[0:57:21] Voice 10: simply just show up and just in some kind of you know uh extemporaneous way you know we all kind

[0:57:28] Voice 10: of weigh in it probably does make sense at a minimum to designate uh somebody to speak to

[0:57:36] Voice 10: this issue uh to some like somebody i think it should be something in the working group and i

[0:57:41] Voice 10: was going to suggest trustee patrick you know people are sick of hearing me because they never

[0:57:44] Voice 10: shut up but i mean the fact of the matter is trustee patrick is heavily invested in this

[0:57:49] Voice 10: this endeavor she has put more thought into this endeavor than anybody else and it seems to me that

[0:57:55] Voice 10: when it goes to the trust council she should be our spokesperson when the discussion happens

[0:58:00] Voice 10: that way you have actually you end up having a more intelligible discussion when you have one

[0:58:06] Voice 10: one interlocutor who can sort of deal with the different questions and concerns of the trustees.

[0:58:13] Voice 10: And I think that would go a long ways to answering the concern CEO mobs raised,

[0:58:19] Voice 10: which is if you don't have an intelligent discussion here, you need to do your part.

[0:58:24] Voice 10: I'm rephrasing things in a way that CEO mobs would not put it that way.

[0:58:28] Voice 10: But, you know, that we've got to do our part in terms of explaining what we're doing.

[0:58:31] Voice 10: And that's why I'm going to suggest we leave it to Trustee Patrick to be our spokesperson.

[0:58:36] Voice 10: And given what Trustee Middleton's comments are today, I think we should consider whether or not we do want to have a rejoinder to staff's comments in a written form that goes to Trust Council.

[0:58:50] Voice 10: That's going

[0:58:50] Trustee Gedye: to require another meeting.

[0:58:52] Trustee Gedye: So, or, you know, getting into stuff that we don't have in front of us today to review.

[0:58:57] Trustee Gedye: you so um now the everything has changed too so the collapse of the liberals and uh you know the

[0:59:05] Trustee Gedye: political um whatever is going on in the province in terms of the next election that's that's

[0:59:11] Trustee Gedye: shifting as well and i don't know if that's going to shift our perspective trustee peterson um i see

[0:59:19] Voice 12: director uh martyrs hand up can i defer to him and then come back to me leave your hand up

[0:59:26] Voice 9: yeah if i may i just wanted to point out to the committee that staff are following trust

[0:59:30] Voice 9: council policy so trust council policy on request for decisions requires the ceo

[0:59:38] Voice 9: to review and comment on them and trust council policy on meeting preparation requires the ceo

[0:59:45] Voice 9: to review and comment on everything going to council and it indicates the list of things

[0:59:50] Voice 9: that the CEO has to consider, which is the policy organization, financial and implementation implications.

[1:00:00] Voice 9: of the recommendation identification and evaluation of alternatives relevance to current

[1:00:05] Voice 9: organizational priorities and general completeness of the and quality of the item and that's for any

[1:00:11] Voice 9: rfd whether it's coming from the committee or staff so it is council direction for the cl to

[1:00:18] Voice 9: do that that's the policy council could consider changing if the governance committee would like to

[1:00:22] Voice 9: make those recommendations down the road but currently we are just following council's

[1:00:28] Voice 9: uh policy on uh submission to trust council just wanted to point that out to you thanks thank you

[1:00:34] Voice 4: trustee peterson yeah

[1:00:37] Voice 12: thank you certainly um it is is it is staff's um job to give us advice

[1:00:43] Voice 12: whether or not we uh choose to follow that is that's that's the political part that's that's

[1:00:49] Voice 12: our job um in terms of uh presenting to trust council i agree i don't think there's time for

[1:00:57] Voice 12: for us to hash out what a so-called rebuttal

[1:01:02] Voice 12: to staff advice.

[1:01:04] Voice 12: If trustee Patrick wants to take a stab, that's up to her.

[1:01:09] Voice 12: But I would also just point out that as members

[1:01:11] Voice 12: of this committee, we did, I think we were all in agreement

[1:01:16] Voice 12: in terms of where we got to and it's certainly our prerogative

[1:01:22] Voice 12: to speak in favor of what we think is correct.

[1:01:28] Voice 12: Time-wise, I don't think we have time for a rebuttal, but I think each of us should take the opportunity to think about what the points that we individually want to address in terms of the CAO's advice and our decision and why we support our decision over the advice of staff.

[1:01:51] Voice 12: So, it's just my perspective.

[1:01:54] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Luckham?

[1:01:57] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I don't know.

[1:01:59] Trustee Luckham: I can add much, actually. Trustee Peterson has captured what I raised my hand for was that

[1:02:11] Trustee Luckham: opportunity to make further amendments or provide different direction or support the direction

[1:02:20] Trustee Luckham: is indeed run out. Executive Committee will be examining all of the items that will be going

[1:02:26] Trustee Luckham: going to council on Wednesday this week, day after tomorrow, and then that package goes out.

[1:02:34] Trustee Luckham: I think that it's completely reasonable, expected, and appropriate that when this item comes up on

[1:02:41] Trustee Luckham: the agenda as an item which was obviously reviewed by a governance committee that certainly, you

[1:02:48] Trustee Luckham: know, normally the chair of governance committee would perhaps address particular initiatives,

[1:02:54] Trustee Luckham: But I think it's very appropriate that the Chair of Governance Committee could refer that to Trustee Patrick as the agent of change there, we'll call it.

[1:03:08] Trustee Luckham: So I think that, and then of course this committee needs to ideally speak in favor and support of the point of view recommendation advanced.

[1:03:17] Trustee Luckham: advanced. And that can happen as an offline conversation. It doesn't require decisions.

[1:03:25] Trustee Luckham: So that's all I have to say.

[1:03:29] Trustee Gedye: CAO Mobs, your hand is up. I see your hand also, Trustee Patrick.

[1:03:34] Voice 7: Thanks, Chair. I just want to encourage trustees not to refer any response to the CAO comments

[1:03:40] Voice 7: as a rebuttal. It puts a trustees versus staff perspective, which is not helpful in any

[1:03:48] Voice 7: conversation. The truth of the matter is this piece of work has been advanced through a working

[1:03:54] Voice 7: group and it's been created by trustees. In normal course of business, work is usually assigned to

[1:03:59] Voice 7: staff. Staff prepare an RFD and bring it forward to a committee or to trust counsel. The way that

[1:04:04] Voice 7: RFDs are prepared in that context is here's all the alternatives that are available. Here is an

[1:04:11] Voice 7: analysis of the alternatives and here's a recommended approach. What staff are attempting,

[1:04:16] Voice 7: well I won't say staff, what I am attempting to do with the CAO comments here is provide

[1:04:23] Voice 7: information on the alternatives that were not presented by the working group or governance

[1:04:28] Voice 7: committee in the RFD. There's a lot of talk in this organization about structured decision making.

[1:04:33] Voice 7: Structured decision making in part means looking at all of your available options and analyzing

[1:04:37] Voice 7: them and determining which one makes the most sense. In the RFD and the draft letter that's

[1:04:43] Voice 7: moved forward um analysis of alternative options isn't presented it's my job as the ceo as director

[1:04:50] Voice 7: marler's pointed out to actually in my comment be acknowledging the alternative whether or not

[1:04:56] Voice 7: they are the best alternative they need to be acknowledged so that council is the decision

[1:05:00] Voice 7: maker can have a debate and say yeah we see there's three alternatives here we don't like

[1:05:05] Voice 7: these two and we're going to advance the third um so my caution there is is really to um you know

[1:05:13] Voice 7: You know, my comments are trying to advance structured decision-making, make sure that

[1:05:16] Voice 7: the decision-maker has all the, excuse me, information.

[1:05:20] Voice 7: And I just want to encourage not to be looking at it as a rebuttal, trustee versus staff

[1:05:26] Voice 7: kind of a thing.

[1:05:27] Voice 7: As I mentioned before, if you look at the language in the CAO report, it's all about

[1:05:31] Voice 7: staff encouraging trust counsel to evaluate all the options.

[1:05:34] Voice 7: There's no particular recommendation that's made.

[1:05:38] Trustee Gedye: Thank you.

[1:05:38] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Patrick.

[1:05:41] Voice 3: And I think it's a situation of almost roll the tape.

[1:05:44] Voice 3: You know, the debate that occurred two years ago with two trustees of opposite political, opposite everything, and the power of the presentation of why this came to a recommendation, along with the words of Emily Olson last, whenever that was, June.

[1:06:08] Voice 3: soon um they're all very powerful and i think they're just reminders and i'm happy to pull

[1:06:13] Voice 3: something together and if we can cut and clip tapes i think it would be powerful christy harris

[1:06:23] Voice 13: got to be careful to not be too inflammatory but um you know history kind of at least with

[1:06:30] Voice 13: some trustees and with staff there is a clear you know us against them or them against us kind

[1:06:36] Voice 13: of thing so you know it's easy to see why some people have sort of drawn that conclusion and

[1:06:40] Voice 13: used a kind of terminology that would refer to that but it is troubling to see um you know as

[1:06:47] Voice 13: if if the staff comments are sort of contradictory or or um you know opposed to what governance

[1:06:58] Voice 13: committee has has put forward to trust council um that's it's troubling so i can see where trustee

[1:07:06] Voice 13: middleton is coming from um and let's i'm just i'm hopeful that we can get this through and

[1:07:15] Voice 13: everybody can be in agreement and um including staff trying to hopefully be behind what we're

[1:07:21] Voice 13: we're saying so we can get this opened up because this is just the start and um you know if there's

[1:07:29] Voice 13: this is a big deal so i can see why some may be reluctant but anyhow i'll leave it there thank you

[1:07:35] Trustee Gedye: trustee bernardo and i'm if i may it's 10 after 10 so we're not quite through a very dizzy agenda

[1:07:44] Voice 10: yes i move i have a motion to make because i i agree we need to move it along and i think we've

[1:07:50] Voice 10: reached actually some clarity here and we're at risk of going in circles but i want to go back

[1:07:54] Voice 10: to the point i made before which is let's have some clarity at the discussion when it happens

[1:07:58] Voice 10: at trust council and for that reason i make a motion uh i move the trustee patrick be designated

[1:08:03] Voice 10: the governance committee spokesperson on this issue at trust council any

[1:08:14] Trustee Gedye: a seconder trustee

[1:08:16] Trustee Gedye: stamford i

[1:08:17] Trustee Stamford: second for discussion purposes okay

[1:08:22] Trustee Gedye: trustee luckham yeah

[1:08:27] Trustee Luckham: um apologies but uh the

[1:08:30] Trustee Luckham: motion might want to be more specific in that on this issue isn't necessarily uh if taken out of

[1:08:40] Trustee Luckham: context isn't necessarily clear but that's my two cents well

[1:08:47] Voice 10: by that i meant just a clarification

[1:08:48] Voice 10: this rfd you know um i thought that was clear enough sorry yeah

[1:08:55] Trustee Luckham: so yeah it's just a motion

[1:08:58] Trustee Luckham: rfd uh for the whatever it is the letter to the province there's obviously some language that is

[1:09:05] Trustee Luckham: being used just specifically for that purpose right

[1:09:08] Voice 10: we all we all understand what we're talking

[1:09:10] Voice 10: about here I think.

[1:09:11] Voice 3: Thank you. Trustee Patrick. I think how I'm understanding this is I'd be the

[1:09:17] Voice 3: presenter of the RFD. Once a motion is made it belongs to trust counsel so I think everyone

[1:09:24] Voice 3: should be free to debate and you know add their voice to a debate. So I think it's just presenting

[1:09:30] Voice 3: the RFD and the arguments presented in arguments isn't the right word but presenting the RFD.

[1:09:37] Trustee Gedye: right the process okay

[1:09:39] Voice 6: so

[1:09:41] Trustee Gedye: i'm assuming that what you're talking about is the process that we've

[1:09:45] Trustee Gedye: been through in terms of coming to the decision the working group and the drafting of this in

[1:09:50] Trustee Gedye: the back and the fourth and all of the impetus around it in terms of um mla olson and and um

[1:09:56] Trustee Gedye: you've got more of the history in terms of the previous two trustees so lay that all out so that

[1:10:01] Trustee Gedye: there's you know the five minute presentation we've been through this this is what we've come

[1:10:05] Trustee Gedye: to and uh you know there's more to discuss and things have changed a little bit since and

[1:10:10] Trustee Gedye: you know we've disagreed or agreed on whatever so um we've got a nomination now that uh trustee

[1:10:18] Trustee Gedye: patrick be designated as the spokesperson at trust council to present this rfd item 4.3 what is the

[1:10:26] Trustee Gedye: um what is that number 4.3 um

[1:10:31] Voice 3: i'm think i'm referring to the minute so that would be um

[1:10:35] Trustee Gedye: Whatever.

[1:10:36] Trustee Gedye: I'll

[1:10:36] Voice 3: just fill out the title of the RFD.

[1:10:38] Trustee Gedye: Yep. Thank you.

[1:10:41] Trustee Gedye: Sorry. Director Marler.

[1:10:44] Voice 9: Yeah, I just wanted to make sure the resolution is going to stand by itself.

[1:10:48] Voice 9: So it needs to say that the Governance Committee appoints Trustee Patrick to be the designated spokesperson at Trust Council on the RFD regarding.

[1:10:57] Voice 9: And then the subject, which is the letter to the province.

[1:11:01] Voice 9: as that vehicle stand by itself

[1:11:04] Voice 9: because if you look at this down the road

[1:11:06] Voice 9: you won't know what it's referring to

[1:11:07] Trustee Gedye: Governance Committee recommend that Trustee Patrick

[1:11:09] Trustee Gedye: be the designated spokesperson

[1:11:12] Trustee Gedye: at the

[1:11:13] Voice 9: appoint

[1:11:14] Voice 9: okay, appoint

[1:11:17] Voice 9: not

[1:11:18] Trustee Gedye: recommend, appoint

[1:11:20] Trustee Gedye: no, leave that Laurie

[1:11:21] Trustee Gedye: so that GC

[1:11:25] Voice 9: appoint

[1:11:28] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Patrick

[1:11:29] Trustee Gedye: designated spokesperson, take out the next

[1:11:32] Trustee Gedye: the designated

[1:11:36] Trustee Gedye: spokesperson.

[1:11:39] Voice 10: Take out the B and take out the the?

[1:11:44] Voice 10: Is that what you're saying?

[1:11:46] Trustee Gedye: Be the designated spokesperson?

[1:11:49] Voice 10: Yes.

[1:11:56] Trustee Gedye: At Trust Council on RFD

[1:11:59] Trustee Gedye: regarding the letter to the

[1:12:00] Trustee Gedye: province.

[1:12:02] Voice 8: Good, thank you.

[1:12:07] Trustee Gedye: Alright.

[1:12:10] Trustee Gedye: So that was

[1:12:11] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo's motion and we have a seconder.

[1:12:16] Trustee Gedye: I'll second that.

[1:12:17] Trustee Gedye: Any more discussion?

[1:12:23] Trustee Gedye: Alright. Call the vote. All those in

[1:12:25] Trustee Gedye: favor uh six in

[1:12:32] Trustee Gedye: favor thank you hands down any opposed none opposed

[1:12:39] Voice 8: that

[1:12:40] Trustee Gedye: carries all right

[1:12:42] Trustee Gedye: so back to the agenda um 7.3 representation on the financial planning committee

[1:12:51] Trustee Gedye: um so we have a briefing from director marler uh page 38 and 39 um

[1:13:07] Trustee Gedye: And this is, we've tried to get this on to an earlier meeting as a late item.

[1:13:15] Trustee Gedye: And that was, I didn't get the necessary vote to have it put on as a late item.

[1:13:21] Trustee Gedye: So it came, it got delayed and finally is on the agenda to today.

[1:13:26] Trustee Gedye: So this is my notice to the council, to the committee, that the delegation that I made when we first met, so that would be January of 23, I believe, was that I was swamped with the newness of all of the work at Bowen Council and the chair of this committee.

[1:13:51] Trustee Gedye: And the opportunity to sit on the governance committee was not something that I was interested in at the time. I had too much on my plate and I had asked the co-chair or the director, Tressie Harris, if he would be willing to take it on. And he agreed.

[1:14:12] Trustee Gedye: agreed. So since then, what has happened is that the financial planning committee has

[1:14:20] Trustee Gedye: ended up with two representatives from Salt Spring Island and none from Bowen Island.

[1:14:28] Trustee Gedye: And with respect to population, I think we're the second largest in the trust. There's a

[1:14:34] Trustee Gedye: lot of concern and discussion on Bowen in terms of trying to understand the particular

[1:14:40] Trustee Gedye: particular memorandum of understanding in the funding formula. And there's concern with respect

[1:14:47] Trustee Gedye: to all of the, we've got a 9% tax increase for the next five years. And there's lots of concerns

[1:14:56] Trustee Gedye: in terms of the increases in costs on Bowen. And there was some discussion and comments at the last

[1:15:04] Trustee Gedye: budget process in terms of the Bowen Island being opposed to increases in the

[1:15:14] Trustee Gedye: trust budget was linked to expenses and requests of the Islands Trust Conservancy

[1:15:23] Trustee Gedye: and there was a discussion between Sue Ellen Fast and myself, Trustee Fast,

[1:15:29] Trustee Gedye: where that we needed to better understand what those arguments were that had come through the

[1:15:36] Trustee Gedye: financial planning committee. So Trustee Fast has worked on the financial planning committee in the

[1:15:47] Trustee Gedye: past when she was on the executive committee. She's agreed to help, possibly attend meetings

[1:15:54] Trustee Gedye: as she's available in terms of listening in and not participating,

[1:15:59] Trustee Gedye: but helping me with respect to understanding and doing some of the background work.

[1:16:05] Trustee Gedye: And the final point is that I think that we have more specific budget requests

[1:16:12] Trustee Gedye: from this committee that need to be fleshed out.

[1:16:15] Trustee Gedye: And that is part of a later discussion on this meeting,

[1:16:19] Trustee Gedye: but also something that I think needs to be highlighted.

[1:16:24] Trustee Gedye: With the financial. So I am now interested and I will find the time and I've got some help with respect to the work on the financial planning committee. So I want to change the delegation that was made at the beginning of this term on the governance committee and appoint myself as the delegate as the chair of this committee to the financial planning committee.

[1:16:55] Trustee Gedye: So that is the proposal.

[1:16:59] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris.

[1:17:02] Voice 13: Thanks.

[1:17:05] Voice 13: Lots of comments there.

[1:17:09] Voice 13: Number one, I think Salt Spring ought to have two representatives on a financial planning committee.

[1:17:16] Voice 13: Clearly, it's political.

[1:17:21] Voice 13: And I kind of can see what's going on.

[1:17:24] Voice 13: I think anybody can kind of see that.

[1:17:27] Voice 13: But I'm confused, though, about the part about Trustee Fast sitting on it in your place, if you can't be on it.

[1:17:37] Voice 13: I think I heard you mention something like that.

[1:17:39] Voice 13: You know what I'm saying?

[1:17:43] Trustee Gedye: I can't delegate to her.

[1:17:50] Trustee Gedye: I can only, if I were to delegate, put somebody else on, I would have to be a member of this committee.

[1:17:59] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris?

[1:18:01] Voice 13: Can you hear me?

[1:18:03] Voice 13: Yes.

[1:18:04] Voice 13: Okay.

[1:18:05] Voice 13: My connection was getting kind of spotty.

[1:18:06] Voice 13: i was concerned that i was breaking up um anyways yeah i again i i'm troubled by this but um

[1:18:16] Voice 13: you know i've i don't really understand it um i'll leave it at that trustee peterson

[1:18:28] Voice 12: uh thank you chair uh the briefing makes makes it pretty clear that um that the chair of the

[1:18:35] Voice 12: the committee uh has the power to uh to designate um someone to to sit on financial planning

[1:18:43] Voice 12: committee in their stead or to change that designation so i don't from my perspective

[1:18:48] Voice 12: there's not a lot to discuss here it's essentially the chair informing the committee of their

[1:18:55] Voice 12: decision to put themselves back in in that seat on financial planning committee the question of

[1:19:01] Voice 12: whether salt spring deserves additional um representation on financial planning committee

[1:19:07] Voice 12: is is an entirely different question and uh that's my perspective thank you

[1:19:14] Voice 4: trustee bernardo

[1:19:17] Voice 10: yeah uh with respect to trustee peterson i don't think the briefing from

[1:19:21] Voice 10: the staff is in fact as emphatically clear as as he makes it out to be um

[1:19:31] Voice 10: on that one narrow point and that was actually a very useful memo and very helpful and it makes

[1:19:37] Voice 10: for interesting reading and

[1:19:39] Voice 6: again

[1:19:40] Voice 10: I'm going to pipe up to say it's another reason why we need

[1:19:43] Voice 10: to be looking at these policies again because in fact what Director Marner was dealing with

[1:19:47] Voice 10: here and trying to interpret is an ambiguous language which says that you know the chair

[1:19:54] Voice 10: chair sits in on FPC meetings or designate. Policy isn't clear about who does the designation. What

[1:20:02] Voice 10: we have here is an interpretation that says, look, if you look at the Interpretation Act,

[1:20:06] Voice 10: well, you know, it could reasonably be the purview of the chair to do that. And it follows,

[1:20:14] Voice 10: if that's reasonable, it would also be reasonable to have the jurisdiction sort of change its

[1:20:18] Voice 10: designation. Except I'm not sure that's a reasonable interpretation of it. I think you

[1:20:24] Voice 10: you could just as equally interpret it the other way.

[1:20:27] Voice 10: I mean, the reality is the policy isn't that clear about it

[1:20:33] Voice 10: and the Interpretation Act applies to enactments.

[1:20:36] Voice 10: This isn't an enactment and I'm not sure the analogy works

[1:20:39] Voice 10: to say a policy adopted by trust counsel

[1:20:42] Voice 10: should be interpreted the same way as an enactment.

[1:20:46] Voice 10: They're different things.

[1:20:48] Voice 10: So I think it would be, you know, the difficulty,

[1:20:51] Voice 10: and I think we have a genuine difficulty here.

[1:20:53] Voice 10: the as the memo points out the original designation of trustee harris is our representative

[1:21:00] Voice 10: was done unilaterally um and we acquiesced to that but frankly we didn't know what we were

[1:21:06] Voice 10: doing and hadn't actually i don't think any of us had directed our attention to this

[1:21:10] Voice 10: fine point about in the in the policy so i think it does uh i think the practical reality is i

[1:21:18] Voice 10: I think it rests with this governance committee to sort of decide the question after some full discussion, because it just isn't clear what the policy intends.

[1:21:29] Voice 10: And, you know, in fact, I'd argue the policy doesn't never directed its attention to the issue because it doesn't refer to it.

[1:21:38] Voice 10: And a lot of our policies are like that. So I think it's for this committee to have to figure this out.

[1:21:45] Voice 10: And just a point of correction, I think Gabriela is the local trustee that has the second largest population after Salt Spring.

[1:21:54] Voice 10: And having said all that, as I understand it, I mean, and Trustee Getty can correct me for this,

[1:22:01] Voice 10: I see her saying that principally she believes that she should be on FTC because Bowen Island deserves an advocate there.

[1:22:11] Voice 10: and also that then she would speak to other issues that directly affect governance committee.

[1:22:20] Voice 10: And that to me raises a question, which I would like Director Marler to address if it's possible,

[1:22:25] Voice 10: and it may not be possible, is that the right way for trustees to think about their appointment to FPC?

[1:22:38] Voice 10: We heard Trustee Harris said it was reasonable in his view that a jurisdiction as large as

[1:22:44] Voice 10: Salt Spring had two representatives.

[1:22:47] Voice 10: But Trustee Patrick is there in her capacity as the chair of a committee.

[1:22:53] Voice 10: Trustee Harris is there in his capacity as a representative of this committee.

[1:22:59] Voice 10: Is it appropriate for trustees, when they're sitting on FPC, to view themselves as advocates

[1:23:04] Voice 10: for their particular constituencies?

[1:23:06] Voice 10: or is their responsibility to look at the whole at financial planning issues in a global way

[1:23:14] Voice 10: without you know putting on the team sweater for the particular area

[1:23:18] Voice 10: and i don't have a view about this like this is a real question i don't know

[1:23:23] Voice 10: is it is it appropriate for for trustees to be advocates for the local trust areas

[1:23:28] Voice 10: is when they actually have been appointed to FPC

[1:23:32] Voice 10: or designated by virtue of their committee roles.

[1:23:37] Voice 10: And that's a question for Director Marler.

[1:23:40] Voice 10: Thank you.

[1:23:41] Trustee Gedye: I wasn't suggesting that I would be an advocate for it.

[1:23:45] Trustee Gedye: It's a complicated question that I wanted to try and sort out

[1:23:48] Trustee Gedye: with respect to the funding formula.

[1:23:50] Trustee Gedye: Director Marler?

[1:23:53] Voice 9: Yeah, I'll respond to that question,

[1:23:56] Voice 9: but I'm not going to get into the politics of it

[1:23:58] Voice 9: I think that is more a political question.

[1:24:01] Voice 9: But the policy that you're operating under doesn't consider island representation.

[1:24:09] Voice 9: It considers representation by virtue of the position of the trustees.

[1:24:14] Voice 9: So in this case, it's executive committee members, which presumably would gather.

[1:24:20] Voice 9: They work with all the islands, with the exception of Bourne.

[1:24:23] Voice 9: So I think that was the intention there.

[1:24:25] Voice 9: And then the council committees.

[1:24:28] Voice 9: So nowhere in the policy is there any consideration about population and whether or not certain islands should have somebody on the FPC or not.

[1:24:40] Voice 9: And maybe that's something that this committee might want to consider as a change to the policy down the road, if that is important.

[1:24:47] Voice 9: important but you know how a trustee is is thinking as a chair of a committee at the time

[1:24:53] Voice 9: for whether or not they take it on or not that's entirely their own reason whether it's personal

[1:24:59] Voice 9: or political so I'm not going to get into that part of it just what the policy says and then

[1:25:05] Voice 9: just with respect to my memo and interpretation I totally agree with um uh trustee Bernardo that

[1:25:11] Voice 9: that it is open to interpretation, and that the policy is not clear, so it puts you in a difficult

[1:25:19] Voice 9: position. But my kind of like plain language reading of it is when it says our designate,

[1:25:26] Voice 9: it's referring to the chair designating somebody, because there's no further language that says how

[1:25:33] Voice 9: that designate has to happen. And obviously, as Trustee Bernardo pointed out, it's possible to

[1:25:38] Voice 9: read it another way as well but um going off the history of what's happened at the organization

[1:25:44] Voice 9: where the chairs have generally just appointed um another person if they've been unable to and

[1:25:51] Voice 9: it's never been questioned that's kind of been the practice so that's why this uh memo was written

[1:25:57] Voice 9: the way it was written thank you christy harris thank

[1:26:03] Voice 13: you i think i misspoke when i um spoke

[1:26:08] Voice 13: I spoke earlier, you know, I said I didn't understand. I clearly do understand what's going on here. I'm just trying to, you know, refrain from, again, using inflammatory terms. I do, I'm still, I'm not sure, you know, what you said, Chair Getty, about trustee Fast helping or being at the meetings. I have more to say, but if you could clarify your comments about that.

[1:26:37] Voice 13: But

[1:26:41] Trustee Gedye: any trustee is entitled to attend a meeting.

[1:26:45] Trustee Gedye: They're not entitled to vote and they're not entitled to be part of any discussion unless the committee agrees at the time.

[1:26:54] Trustee Gedye: And she has said to me that she'll help so that if we get into complicated, detailed discussions about the budget,

[1:27:07] Trustee Gedye: that going through line by line, she's done it before.

[1:27:10] Trustee Gedye: she understands it she's somebody that i go to for comments and just you know have you looked

[1:27:20] Trustee Gedye: at this and have you spent any time on this and can you help me understand this and she's good

[1:27:25] Trustee Gedye: so she does have that background and experience and she's interested so okay

[1:27:31] Voice 13: i hear you now this

[1:27:32] Voice 13: was an elected position onto the governance committee trustee fast was not elected onto

[1:27:37] Voice 13: to the government's committee so now it's very troubling to me and i can see what's going on

[1:27:43] Voice 13: it's political um i do feel i'm happy with my position at the financial planning committee i

[1:27:48] Voice 13: think it balances it out quite well um it kind of gets us to hopefully where we need to be

[1:27:56] Voice 13: um so i'm not sure how this is supposed to proceed if there's supposed to be a vote but um

[1:28:01] Voice 13: as far as trustee fast going on there and then you just mentioned if the committee agrees that

[1:28:06] Voice 13: she can vote and no

[1:28:07] Voice 4: that's

[1:28:09] Voice 13: not what i said you just said if unless the committee agrees she can't

[1:28:12] Voice 13: vote and she can't do this unless she agrees she

[1:28:15] Trustee Gedye: can never vote she cannot speak unless the

[1:28:18] Trustee Gedye: committee agrees okay

[1:28:19] Voice 13: okay well the way it was phrased it that seemed to me that's what you

[1:28:23] Voice 13: were pertaining to um it's still troubling to me um i'll still stand back on the you know i know

[1:28:30] Voice 13: there's question as to um whether uh trustees should be wearing their team sweater for their

[1:28:36] Voice 13: island um but i'll be you know happy to put mine on for the people that elected me um salt spring

[1:28:41] Voice 13: should have two members on there um uh it's it's quite clear and hopefully this all gets changed

[1:28:49] Voice 13: and uh and our letter gets through and we can actually uh deal with this kind of troubling um

[1:28:57] Voice 4: trustee peterson so

[1:28:59] Voice 12: i take trustee bernardo bernardo's point uh about the

[1:29:04] Voice 12: The policy is not perhaps as explicit as he would like.

[1:29:12] Voice 12: Practice has been that financial planning committee consists of the vice chairs and the chair of trust council and the chairs of the committees.

[1:29:24] Voice 12: There has never been, to my knowledge, any consideration of appointing island-specific representation to financial planning committee.

[1:29:36] Voice 12: That would require policy change and probably a significant amount of analysis to get us anywhere near that being a viable option.

[1:29:47] Voice 12: So really, the question here boils down to not the representation of an island on this committee, but whether the chair of the, in this case, the governance committee.

[1:30:01] Voice 12: is able to designate who sits on a financial planning committee.

[1:30:06] Voice 12: If no designation is made, it is the chair of the governance committee in this case.

[1:30:13] Voice 12: So I don't see this as a huge question.

[1:30:16] Voice 12: I see this as the chair designated the vice chair, which is common.

[1:30:21] Voice 12: I see

[1:30:21] Voice 13: it as an attack.

[1:30:22] Voice 13: I would like you

[1:30:23] Voice 12: to please not interrupt.

[1:30:24] Voice 12: I'd

[1:30:24] Voice 13: like you to whatever

[1:30:25] Voice 12: you want to do.

[1:30:26] Voice 12: Trustee Harris.

[1:30:27] Voice 12: Out of order, sir.

[1:30:28] Voice 12: Good.

[1:30:29] Voice 12: sorry trustee peterson were you finished uh not quite uh i i see this as as as simply the

[1:30:38] Voice 12: matter of the and i was in the position as as vice chair of the trust programs committee and

[1:30:44] Voice 12: was designated to sit on financial planning committee in in place of that chair i i don't

[1:30:51] Voice 12: it was the decision of the chair i'm fine with it remaining the decision of the chair

[1:30:56] Voice 12: and that is all I have to say.

[1:31:00] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Luckham.

[1:31:03] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, this has gone further than I anticipated.

[1:31:09] Trustee Luckham: However, I think that in my mind,

[1:31:13] Trustee Luckham: we're usually a collegial bunch

[1:31:17] Trustee Luckham: and we kind of make a consensus sort of decisions

[1:31:21] Trustee Luckham: that are not recorded in the minutes.

[1:31:24] Trustee Luckham: And then we have to live with it later,

[1:31:27] Trustee Luckham: which is the lesson to learn, I guess. But certainly the policy to me is that the chair

[1:31:34] Trustee Luckham: of the committee sits on financial planning committee and the chair has the ability to

[1:31:40] Trustee Luckham: designate somebody when the chair is not able to attend. It was clear that the chair was not

[1:31:47] Trustee Luckham: able to attend in the short term or the long term. And I think it's completely appropriate for

[1:31:55] Trustee Luckham: the chair to reconsider that the designation is not no longer necessary as the chair

[1:32:04] Trustee Luckham: intends to attend financial planning committee meetings. And so I don't know that there's

[1:32:09] Trustee Luckham: necessarily any change except to ask Trustee Harris to step down until such point that

[1:32:16] Trustee Luckham: that designation is required. And then indeed, Trustee Harris can step up and fill in the role

[1:32:23] Trustee Luckham: of the chair that's sort of how i look at it as a cordial approach to this is that designation

[1:32:30] Trustee Luckham: exists and um and there's no reason to change it except that this from this juncture on we're

[1:32:35] Trustee Luckham: getting notice from the chair that she plans on attending financial planning committee on behalf

[1:32:39] Trustee Luckham: of governance committee not on behalf of any island group any more discussion

[1:32:50] Voice 4: all

[1:32:57] Trustee Gedye: right um

[1:32:58] Trustee Gedye: Um, I am, uh, I've given notice, we've had a discussion and, um, the, um, delegate from

[1:33:10] Trustee Gedye: the governance committee to the financial planning, um, committee is, um, from this

[1:33:16] Trustee Gedye: point, uh, going to be myself as chair of this committee.

[1:33:23] Trustee Luckham: And let the minutes record that.

[1:33:28] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:33:29] Trustee Gedye: I knew, sorry, Jamie, I knew that there would be, um, some resistance on your part that,

[1:33:34] Trustee Gedye: that you wanted and you'd indicated in previous meetings that you did not agree with this decision

[1:33:44] Trustee Gedye: and we can make that clear in the minutes as well but for all the reasons that I've given

[1:33:52] Trustee Gedye: I think that I am justified and intend to sit on that committee so

[1:34:02] Trustee Gedye: So next on the agenda, 7.4.

[1:34:06] Trustee Gedye: I also, with respect to your comments in terms of I know what's going on here,

[1:34:11] Trustee Gedye: and I can see what's going on here, I don't support that interpretation.

[1:34:19] Trustee Gedye: So next on the agenda, the Governance Committee Budget Requests, 7.4.

[1:34:28] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, Trustee Harris, your hand is up again.

[1:34:31] Voice 13: There's no point in me speaking.

[1:34:33] Voice 13: It'll just be inflammatory, so I'll rescind my hand raising.

[1:34:38] Trustee Gedye: Thank you. Okay. So, page 40 of the agenda, it's up on the screen now. There are things in our urgent and important part of the matrix that we have indicated we intend to work on.

[1:34:57] Trustee Gedye: So staff, CAO Mobs has put together this briefing and a request from governance committee for staff to work on developing budget requests to go into the decision making of the financial planning committee.

[1:35:21] Trustee Gedye: so this is a really good reminder this is something that we could have should

[1:35:27] Trustee Gedye: have been working on probably from the beginning of this committee and now it's

[1:35:34] Trustee Gedye: we're going to look at it in detail so we've got three items here and there is

[1:35:43] Trustee Gedye: in my mind that's consideration possibly of a fourth that that follow-up action

[1:35:50] Trustee Gedye: list that had the putting together some sort of a presentation to the Trust Council about the

[1:35:56] Trustee Gedye: governance review. And there was a budget item that we talked about in the spring in terms of

[1:36:03] Trustee Gedye: the costs of involving the consultants, again, to either meet with this committee and further costs

[1:36:11] Trustee Gedye: with respect to potentially meeting with the whole of Trust Council. So while I hesitate to a certain

[1:36:18] Trustee Gedye: extent in terms of opening that up again. It is something that is still in our follow-up action

[1:36:23] Trustee Gedye: list. So, let's start a discussion on this recommendation. Anybody want to speak to it?

[1:36:35] Trustee Gedye: CAO Mobs, do you want to start? Oh, Trustee Patrick's hand is up.

[1:36:40] Voice 3: Oh, you can let Trustee Mobs, Trustee Mobs, CAO Mobs wishes to speak. I will wait.

[1:36:49] Voice 7: Please.

[1:36:50] Voice 7: I'll just provide a few brief comments.

[1:36:53] Voice 7: Chair, thank you for the opportunity.

[1:36:55] Voice 7: You've stated a lot of what's in the report,

[1:36:57] Voice 7: which is great.

[1:36:58] Voice 7: I don't think I need to speak extensively to it,

[1:37:00] Voice 7: but having Governance Committee

[1:37:01] Voice 7: have a distinct conversation

[1:37:02] Voice 7: about its budget requests is corporate policy.

[1:37:06] Voice 7: It's what all the other committees do.

[1:37:07] Voice 7: And so this committee should start

[1:37:09] Voice 7: to be undertaking those conversations as well.

[1:37:11] Voice 7: Budget requests, of course,

[1:37:13] Voice 7: most supportable when they are tied

[1:37:14] Voice 7: to the committee's terms of reference

[1:37:16] Voice 7: and work that Trust Council has directed

[1:37:18] Voice 7: or requested the committee to undertake the suggestions that are put forward by staff are

[1:37:22] Voice 7: based on a review of both of those things um the uh first item about hiring a consultant to review

[1:37:29] Voice 7: trustee remuneration that is an item that's not on the high priority and urgent part of the matrix

[1:37:34] Voice 7: but as we move through time it does become more urgent as this kind of a review uh should really

[1:37:40] Voice 7: be conducted about a year out from elections and so the conversation is happening now the work would

[1:37:46] Voice 7: be slated for next fiscal so the timing feels appropriate.

[1:37:50] Voice 7: Conversations around this I know have already happened at this committee prior to when I was

[1:37:54] Voice 7: a support staff. I don't think they advanced in a significant way. A lot of the work of that

[1:38:00] Voice 7: policy review has already been completed by staff. A consultant would primarily be looking at our

[1:38:06] Voice 7: review of the remuneration values to support the review that staff has undertaken, particularly

[1:38:12] Voice 7: particularly in related to the process.

[1:38:15] Voice 7: So the timing for that makes sense.

[1:38:17] Voice 7: Reviewing all trust council policies is the second item

[1:38:20] Voice 7: that staff are putting forward as a consideration

[1:38:22] Voice 7: for a budget request that of course is conversation

[1:38:24] Voice 7: that trustee Bernardo had advanced by email

[1:38:28] Voice 7: and this committee has touched on here today.

[1:38:31] Voice 7: Trust council has already given direction

[1:38:32] Voice 7: on this piece of work.

[1:38:34] Voice 7: There's already a resolution at the council table

[1:38:36] Voice 7: to direct staff to look at all of our policies

[1:38:39] Voice 7: to see where there's opportunities for consolidation

[1:38:41] Voice 7: and improvement. So again, that aligns nicely with the terms of reference to this committee

[1:38:45] Voice 7: and also council-directed work. The third item is a little bit less clear, at least from the

[1:38:51] Voice 7: staff perspective. The governance review did have a recommendation that the office of the secretary

[1:38:57] Voice 7: that is named in the Islands Trust Act should be staffed and report directly to trust counsel

[1:39:02] Voice 7: through the chair. So of course, we already do have an office of the secretary. That's the

[1:39:06] Voice 7: the Director of Legislative Services position,

[1:39:09] Voice 7: so David Marler.

[1:39:11] Voice 7: And that position does have the ability

[1:39:13] Voice 7: to report directly to Trust Council

[1:39:16] Voice 7: in the same way that the appointed treasurer does.

[1:39:19] Voice 7: So the matrix seems to acknowledge

[1:39:21] Voice 7: that more research is required on this particular topic.

[1:39:24] Voice 7: It actually says more research is needed.

[1:39:25] Voice 7: So from staff perspective, we would agree with that.

[1:39:28] Voice 7: Understanding exactly what it is

[1:39:30] Voice 7: that this committee wishes to dig into with that

[1:39:32] Voice 7: will help us understand if it's something

[1:39:34] Voice 7: that perhaps should be advancing

[1:39:36] Voice 7: thing as a budget request for next fiscal year or if there's another piece of work the committee

[1:39:40] Voice 7: wishes to um take on as a higher priority um i think that's about it i can respond to any other

[1:39:48] Voice 7: questions as they come up

[1:39:52] Trustee Gedye: anybody got questions i don't see hand raised oh sorry i do have some

[1:39:59] Trustee Gedye: hands raised it's on a different screen trustee patrick

[1:40:03] Voice 3: hi i don't want the risk of uh the budget

[1:40:07] Voice 3: budget item agenda item that's yet to come on the policies of policies we can either hold number two

[1:40:15] Voice 3: until after we have that but um i think we need to talk about what it is you know we're just

[1:40:21] Voice 3: reviewing policies are we creating a trust council governance manual um and i think that's something

[1:40:29] Voice 3: we'll have to discuss later in the agenda and will affect this item all

[1:40:38] Trustee Gedye: right can you help me keep

[1:40:40] Trustee Gedye: track of that so you remind me trustee middleton thank

[1:40:45] Trustee Middleton: you yes and thanks for the report just to

[1:40:49] Trustee Middleton: clarify the the office of the secretary is completely separate and the governance report

[1:40:55] Trustee Middleton: is very clear on this so i just want to underline this again i don't would not like to see a

[1:41:02] Trustee Middleton: reference to the director of legislative and information services as co-equivalent to the

[1:41:09] Trustee Middleton: secretariat function proposed by the consultants. It is a completely different role, confused only

[1:41:16] Trustee Middleton: by the fact that it uses the same name. The consultants were very clear that the position

[1:41:21] Trustee Middleton: would be hired outside of the public service agency by trust counsel. The corporate secretary

[1:41:28] Trustee Middleton: still functions inside the organization and does the duties that are currently assigned to him or

[1:41:34] Trustee Middleton: her so i just want to stress once again that the the secretary to trust council works on behalf of

[1:41:43] Trustee Middleton: the chair and council members to do such things as perhaps as trustee patrick just pointed out

[1:41:49] Trustee Middleton: facilitate the creation of governance manual from the perspective of the legislative branch of the

[1:41:55] Trustee Middleton: the trust. I know that members of the committee don't necessarily see the clarity of what this

[1:42:06] Trustee Middleton: role is and the impact that it could have in the efficiency and the effectiveness of our political

[1:42:11] Trustee Middleton: leadership. But my understanding is if we begin to research this, we will see how prevalent this

[1:42:18] Trustee Middleton: is in other agencies of the provincial government and other corporate bodies. And we'll begin to

[1:42:26] Trustee Middleton: um see quite a significant opportunity were we to actually seek to um um engage and indeed hire

[1:42:36] Trustee Middleton: such an individual so i strongly encourage the additional research to allow people to better

[1:42:42] Trustee Middleton: understand the opportunity and i i want to again stress the difference between the office of

[1:42:48] Trustee Middleton: secretary um as currently held in an established position there's a different role thank you

[1:42:55] Voice 4: Trustee Bernardo?

[1:42:58] Voice 10: Yes, thank you.

[1:42:59] Voice 10: I'm in favor of all of this approach and all three of the areas to be investigated to prepare funding requests for all three of them.

[1:43:12] Voice 10: As CEO and Mobs pointed out before, the trustee remuneration issue has been basically being worked on.

[1:43:21] Voice 10: It's in the pipeline for a while.

[1:43:22] Voice 10: Now, I mean, it just makes terrific sense to have an independent third party do the review of the actual values.

[1:43:30] Voice 10: I mean, staff can talk about process, but once you start getting into values, there's just a whole conflict of interest issue there.

[1:43:37] Voice 10: So that makes perfect sense. Trustee remuneration hasn't been looked at for a long time.

[1:43:42] Voice 10: I don't see how we have any option. This has to happen.

[1:43:45] Voice 10: And I think we should support this resolution to sort of get these funding requests developed.

[1:43:53] Voice 10: With respect to the Trust Council policies, well, that's why I sent out that email last week.

[1:43:58] Voice 10: I really think it's a pressing issue, and that's going to take time, effort, probably not a lot of money, but it will take staff resources.

[1:44:04] Voice 10: So that needs to go into the budget.

[1:44:06] Voice 10: So by all means, that as well.

[1:44:08] Voice 10: And finally, the third item, I think Trustee Middleton is right in what he's saying there, which is, in fact, I know he's right.

[1:44:16] Voice 10: I mean, the governance report was very clear that the thing to be investigated is an independent position.

[1:44:23] Voice 10: It's not a staff position.

[1:44:24] Voice 10: It's independent to the staff and accountability to the CEO.

[1:44:28] Voice 10: The accountability is direct to the trust counsel.

[1:44:32] Voice 10: That's what the governance report contemplated.

[1:44:35] Voice 10: But moreover, I think if, and staff will do the research,

[1:44:39] Voice 10: if we approve the funding request,

[1:44:41] Voice 10: I think comprehensive research will disclose

[1:44:43] Voice 10: that that's not an unusual arrangement.

[1:44:47] Voice 10: It has a logistical sense to it.

[1:44:51] Voice 10: It means that the Trust Council, when it needs independent advice, especially with respect to matters that relate to where the staff has a conflict or has an interest, a conflict may be a bit strong, that's when that office really comes into its own.

[1:45:13] Voice 10: And for all the reasons that were put out in the governance report, this is definitely something that's worth investigating.

[1:45:18] Voice 10: So I support that one as well.

[1:45:20] Voice 10: Thank you.

[1:45:22] Voice 4: Trustee Stamford.

[1:45:25] Trustee Stamford: Thank you, Chair.

[1:45:27] Trustee Stamford: I can see us moving for budgetary support for items one and two.

[1:45:35] Trustee Stamford: Number three, secretary of staff position.

[1:45:38] Trustee Stamford: It's almost a chicken and egg for me.

[1:45:40] Trustee Stamford: I still need more clarity on what that investigation is going to look at.

[1:45:46] Trustee Stamford: I'd love to see those examples.

[1:45:48] Trustee Stamford: I'd like to see a potential job description.

[1:45:51] Trustee Stamford: I just do not understand that, you know, obviously this looks like a senior level.

[1:45:57] Trustee Stamford: This is, if we're going to spend money doing research, I want more information ahead of time.

[1:46:07] Trustee Stamford: So I know what they are researching and examples would be very helpful.

[1:46:14] Trustee Stamford: The other two things that I'm thinking of is, you know, we haven't really looked at communication from this particular committee. I think we suffer from a lack of very clear communication out, not just to the Trust Council, but to the public at large.

[1:46:37] Trustee Stamford: And it keeps coming back in various ways that I'm not, we're kind of hit sideways with, with arguments that it's because the public don't understand where we're heading that we get criticized on.

[1:46:55] Trustee Stamford: And it's reactive communication.

[1:46:57] Trustee Stamford: I'd like to see more proactive, some budget put towards proactive communication from this particular committee.

[1:47:05] Trustee Stamford: And I'm not sure, again, one of these original concerns that came out to this whole process was the executive committee.

[1:47:17] Trustee Stamford: And have we spent enough time and effort looking at ways that the executive committee could be set up in such a way that people have, trustees primarily have more understanding and I have to say the word trust in how the executive committee operates.

[1:47:41] Trustee Stamford: Is that still an issue? I haven't really seen it addressed by this committee in a way that makes sense. Otherwise, it could go through the policies. And finally, back to those policies, I'm just hoping that we are relying on the expertise of staff to narrow down what actually does need reviewing and perfectly happy with the idea of reducing those policies down.

[1:48:08] Trustee Stamford: So that's my comments on this.

[1:48:12] Trustee Stamford: Thank you. Trustee Luckham.

[1:48:15] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you. I'm hopeful that the committee will support all three of these elements in this

[1:48:23] Trustee Luckham: RFD. And particularly, I think that the investigation of the Secretary of Staff position

[1:48:31] Trustee Luckham: is critically important to clarify the context of that advice that was provided to us

[1:48:37] Trustee Luckham: and the legislative ability or requirements necessary in order to facilitate that.

[1:48:45] Trustee Luckham: And simply because at this time, my interpretation is that council has one employee and that's the

[1:48:52] Trustee Luckham: CAO. And if there's a change in that, which I'm thinking is that's the intention, and it's a

[1:49:01] Trustee Luckham: a reasonable intention, that we want to have clarity on how it is that we can do that,

[1:49:07] Trustee Luckham: if we can do that. So I recommend that you forward all three of these items.

[1:49:19] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo?

[1:49:21] Voice 10: In response to where Trustee Stanford's coming from, I think she's quite right. I mean,

[1:49:27] Voice 10: We need to develop a better idea of what would be involved with a secretary position.

[1:49:36] Voice 10: And I think that's what this item is all about.

[1:49:41] Voice 10: It's not about developing a recommendation that we adopt a corporate secretary position with a particular profile along the lines of what the governance report is saying.

[1:49:54] Voice 10: It's about gathering that preliminary information about the pros and cons and finding the examples and explaining what the secretary would actually do.

[1:50:05] Voice 10: So I don't see a contradiction here between what Trustee Sanford would like to see, and I think we all need to see, and this investigation.

[1:50:14] Voice 10: I think this is the, my reading of this is that this is a proposed funding request to do the preliminary work.

[1:50:24] Voice 10: And I think that's as far as it goes, as far as I understand it.

[1:50:28] Voice 10: But perhaps staff can clarify.

[1:50:34] Trustee Gedye: Christy Stanford?

[1:50:36] Trustee Stamford: All I'm looking for, it's like, if I'm going to agree to spending money,

[1:50:44] Trustee Stamford: Even one example of what this is, because I keep hearing there's a lot of examples. I want a title, a committee, and a job description, just so I can understand where we could be going.

[1:51:03] Trustee Stamford: Because I would rather spend money on communication than the investigation of a secretary of staff position if at this point, just because I still, after all these years, don't have a clear sense of what we're trying to investigate.

[1:51:25] Voice 10: Trustee Bernardo.

[1:51:27] Voice 10: I can answer that.

[1:51:28] Voice 10: um and uh if if the um i don't know if it's the closest analogy but um if you look what a

[1:51:38] Voice 10: corporate secretary position is in any corporation uh that position is independent of i mean the

[1:51:47] Voice 10: president okay the president ceo of a corporation um you know is in charge of the staff that's

[1:51:54] Voice 10: analogous to what the ceo does corporate secretary position

[1:51:57] Trustee Gedye: i can interrupt sorry

[1:51:59] Trustee Gedye: Mary, I heard Trustee Stamford saying that, you know, give me an example of an organization that has one and what the job description is and, you know, what the function is.

[1:52:08] Trustee Gedye: So we can talk about it in terms of our understanding.

[1:52:11] Trustee Gedye: But, you know, I would have the same request in terms of, you know, is there a regional district?

[1:52:18] Trustee Gedye: Is there a corporation?

[1:52:19] Trustee Gedye: Is there another form of government that has this position?

[1:52:22] Trustee Gedye: And, you know, let me dig into that a little bit and just see what that is.

[1:52:27] Trustee Gedye: um with respect to um well can i finish my comments okay go

[1:52:34] Voice 10: ahead yeah what you're discovering

[1:52:35] Voice 10: what you're uh i mean both you and trustee stanford are basically describing a chicken

[1:52:41] Voice 10: and egg problem i'm going to go back to what i said before that's why we have to investigate it

[1:52:44] Voice 10: you said before we spend money on it well you have to spend a certain i don't think this is

[1:52:48] Voice 10: going to involve much money at all it's going to it's going to require a certain amount of effort

[1:52:52] Voice 10: to get the information together and as i was saying before a corporate secretary is independent

[1:52:57] Voice 10: of the CEO, reports directly to the board of directors and provides advice to the board of

[1:53:03] Voice 10: directors, typically also, you know, in conjunction with in-house legal counsel. So that, you know,

[1:53:15] Voice 10: independence on corporate boards is difficult. And the corporate secretary does perform a certain

[1:53:19] Voice 10: amount, not the same as an independent committee, but does provide a certain amount of independent

[1:53:24] Voice 10: independent advice to the board of directors about what is um uh much of what in fact much of

[1:53:31] Voice 10: what director marler does now in terms of providing legislative advice would be provided without um

[1:53:40] Voice 10: would be provided independently on a neutral basis and so that's one element of it but you know

[1:53:48] Voice 10: just hearing me from me anecdotally saying what that means that's not going to be helpful to

[1:53:52] Voice 10: to anybody, really.

[1:53:54] Voice 10: That's why we need to do this investigation.

[1:53:56] Voice 10: Wow.

[1:53:57] Voice 10: Trustee Gavril.

[1:54:00] Voice 1: Hi, I just wanted to highlight that

[1:54:02] Voice 1: since the secretariat staff position

[1:54:04] Voice 1: is recommended from the governance review,

[1:54:07] Voice 1: trust council's yet to consider the governance review

[1:54:11] Voice 1: in that special meeting.

[1:54:12] Voice 1: So we're not sure that trust council

[1:54:14] Voice 1: would be in favor of the secretariat position

[1:54:16] Voice 1: nor they had that conversation.

[1:54:19] Voice 1: And I confess myself first,

[1:54:20] Voice 1: I don't understand the role of the secretariat position.

[1:54:23] Voice 1: and it does sound like we would need to see a job description first.

[1:54:36] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, CAO Mobs.

[1:54:39] Voice 7: Thanks, Chair.

[1:54:40] Voice 7: This item has come forward solely because it's the next item

[1:54:43] Voice 7: that makes sense in the committee's matrix.

[1:54:47] Voice 7: I know the committee will be reviewing the matrix

[1:54:50] Voice 7: and if there's a shift in priorities that may impact this conversation as well.

[1:54:55] Voice 7: I will just provide some support for the comments that have been made

[1:54:59] Voice 7: that this isn't as clear to everybody as to what exactly this recommendation is about

[1:55:05] Voice 7: and what exactly this position would do.

[1:55:08] Voice 7: I've, you know, in my handover picking up this committee,

[1:55:11] Voice 7: I've had conversations with trustees and with staff,

[1:55:14] Voice 7: and there hasn't been a solid understanding or a cohesive understanding on the part of everybody.

[1:55:20] Voice 7: So I think, you know, at the very least, we need to be having a conversation around,

[1:55:25] Voice 7: you know, what exactly does this mean?

[1:55:27] Voice 7: What is the governance report really recommending, and does it make sense in our context, and how would we advance something like that?

[1:55:35] Voice 7: I think if this is a piece of work that is going to remain as high priority and urgent for the governance committee and the matrix, it does make sense to look at it.

[1:55:46] Voice 7: It might be that we don't need to direct significant funding towards the work.

[1:55:50] Voice 7: Staff could be undertaking this exercise.

[1:55:52] Voice 7: size um there may be some legal funds required that um would uh need to be tucked into our legal

[1:55:58] Voice 7: budget um but yeah i just wanted to provide support that i think if if this is going to

[1:56:04] Voice 7: advance more information is needed and i agreed that you know council should be weighing in

[1:56:09] Voice 7: at some point as well all

[1:56:14] Trustee Gedye: right this is a recommendation that we um ask staff to do

[1:56:20] Trustee Gedye: some background work and help us prepare a budget request. So we're not deciding on any of these

[1:56:28] Trustee Gedye: particular issues. I have a question with respect to the hiring of a consultant to review compensation.

[1:56:35] Trustee Gedye: So if it's a year before the end of term, that's October of 25, correct? Correct. Okay. So then

[1:56:46] Trustee Gedye: if we're going to hire a consultant, how long does the budget process, when do we do the final

[1:56:53] Trustee Gedye: budget?

[1:56:54] Voice 7: March, at the end of March.

[1:56:56] Trustee Gedye: So that would be March of 25, if we got approval by Trust

[1:57:02] Trustee Gedye: Council to hire a consultant to work on. So that would give us the basically spring and summer

[1:57:08] Trustee Gedye: with a report and a decision by October, right? Six months? Yes.

[1:57:19] Trustee Gedye: Okay. I

[1:57:20] Voice 7: think it's achievable.

[1:57:21] Voice 7: It would be fairly easy for us to hire a consultant early on in next fiscal year, and it's a relatively easy piece of work for them, I would say.

[1:57:30] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[1:57:30] Trustee Gedye: So this is to figure out what a consultant would cost, the extent of the research that they would have to do, and the number of hours, and that would be basically the outline of the budget request.

[1:57:45] Trustee Gedye: All of those costs and staff support, correct?

[1:57:50] Voice 7: Yes.

[1:57:50] Voice 7: Yes, so we'd be laying out the alternative approaches

[1:57:53] Voice 7: that are available to do this type of review.

[1:57:56] Voice 7: We'd be looking at potential costs.

[1:57:58] Voice 7: All of that would be included in a business case.

[1:58:01] Trustee Gedye: And is there any of this that can be done in-house

[1:58:04] Trustee Gedye: that would assist a consultant in terms of figuring out

[1:58:08] Trustee Gedye: all of the communities that might be equivalent

[1:58:12] Trustee Gedye: and in terms of size and responsibilities?

[1:58:17] Voice 7: So there was consultants that was hired in 2010

[1:58:21] Voice 7: tend to undertake review of these values. And so, you know, the jurisdictions that the consultant

[1:58:27] Voice 7: looked into at that time still exist. And so that might be a comparable group of jurisdictions to

[1:58:32] Voice 7: hand over. Certainly staff could support any consultant with suggestions of what other

[1:58:37] Voice 7: jurisdictions to look at if we're undertaking a benchmarking exercise, which I suspect this would

[1:58:41] Voice 7: be. Any work that's already been done over the policy in the process, we would be able to share

[1:58:49] Voice 7: with a consultant to support their work um the the conclusions of an analysis or putting forward

[1:58:56] Voice 7: recommendations um should be from an independent third party so the uvcm's best practice guide

[1:59:03] Voice 7: indicates that an independent task force or the hiring of an independent consultant

[1:59:07] Voice 7: take on that work so staff absolutely can support um but the independence of a consultant is

[1:59:13] Voice 7: is important.

[1:59:13] Trustee Gedye: All right. So figuring out the parameters of any kind of staff support would

[1:59:20] Trustee Gedye: be part of the budget calculation. Correct. Okay. Trustee Bernardo.

[1:59:27] Voice 10: Yes. Sorry to sort of keep me

[1:59:30] Voice 10: hammering on about this particular item, but I think it's quite important. Just a point of

[1:59:34] Voice 10: clarification. I've heard from some of the trustees concerns about, look, are we going to end up,

[1:59:38] Voice 10: you know, what are you asking us to spend money on? I don't think we're asking, I don't think this

[1:59:42] Voice 10: This recommendation is about asking for money.

[1:59:48] Voice 10: And I think the CEO, Bob, used a helpful phrase there.

[1:59:53] Voice 10: It's about developing the business cases for doing these things.

[1:59:58] Voice 10: We're going to get a chance to look at the...

[2:00:00] Voice 10: business cases that's where the information is going to be in that's going to help us make a

[2:00:03] Voice 10: decision about whether or not we really want to make the funding request or not so we're not

[2:00:08] Voice 10: preparing the funding request here as i understand it i'm going to ask co moms to confirm this

[2:00:13] Voice 10: it's it's not to prepare a funding request and send it and put it into the budget it's to prepare

[2:00:17] Voice 10: a funding request that will come back to us in the form of the business case for our approval

[2:00:22] Voice 10: as to whether we agree it's worth doing or not and it you know to answer trustee stanford's you know

[2:00:29] Voice 10: you know on point you know observation well we need to have some facts here but like what are

[2:00:34] Voice 10: we really getting ourselves into with respect to item three and i and i think it's all items one

[2:00:39] Voice 10: two and three it's all about developing business cases that's how i understand it and if perhaps

[2:00:43] Voice 10: the co mobs could respond to that

[2:00:46] Voice 7: that's correct any prepared funding requests in the form of

[2:00:50] Voice 7: business cases would return to this committee for review and endorsement before advancing to

[2:00:54] Voice 7: financial planning committee and trust council as part of the budget cycle because the first

[2:00:58] Voice 7: draft of the budget will be advancing to FPC in October of course these funding requests won't

[2:01:04] Voice 7: have a chance to come

[2:01:04] Voice 1: back to this

[2:01:05] Voice 7: committee in advance of that so what we do in that situation

[2:01:09] Voice 7: is to simply include a placeholder for an item if we believe it might be advanced by a committee or

[2:01:16] Voice 7: alternatively to not include funding for that particular item and wait for the committee to

[2:01:20] Voice 7: review the business case and then put the funding in at that point in time either is workable and

[2:01:25] Voice 7: and acceptable um but yes these would return to this committee for review all

[2:01:31] Trustee Gedye: right so um i've

[2:01:33] Trustee Gedye: got 11 o'clock i'm going to put this to um do we need a vote we're making a request for staff to

[2:01:42] Trustee Gedye: work on certain items sorry trustee stanford um

[2:01:47] Trustee Stamford: um you know i do understand that's the direction

[2:01:50] Trustee Stamford: we were going in with this recommendation.

[2:01:53] Trustee Stamford: What is the will of the committee

[2:01:56] Trustee Stamford: to consider a fourth recommendation?

[2:01:59] Trustee Stamford: And that is a review of budget business case

[2:02:03] Trustee Stamford: for a external communication strategy

[2:02:06] Trustee Stamford: for the governance committee.

[2:02:17] Voice 4: CAO Mobs?

[2:02:20] Voice 7: So obviously, Trustee Sanford's question

[2:02:23] Voice 7: is posed to the committee,

[2:02:23] Voice 7: so I absolutely will not respond

[2:02:25] Voice 7: to the will of the committee.

[2:02:26] Voice 7: However, it's an interesting thing to think about. Our communication strategy, of course, is something that applies to all of Islands Trust and the positions of the Islands Trust and Trust Council.

[2:02:38] Voice 7: Governance Committee is simply a recommending body to Trust Council.

[2:02:43] Voice 7: So to have official communications, which typically represent a position of Trust Council or a legislated body, might be a bit of a strange space.

[2:02:55] Voice 7: I'd want to sort of flesh that out a little bit. Certainly, we can receive directions to go away and do some investigating on how appropriate or inappropriate that might be. But it might not be as simple as just a business case to do this thing.

[2:03:08] Voice 7: So

[2:03:10] Trustee Stamford: I certainly recognize that. The reason it keeps niggling for me is the way the original governance review report was put out to the public at the same time as we received the review.

[2:03:27] Trustee Stamford: you. And it's still sitting out there without any kind of trust counsel response. And it keeps

[2:03:35] Trustee Stamford: coming back to us in various ways, again, without a proper response. So that's sort of the angle I'm

[2:03:45] Trustee Stamford: looking at. I'm willing to look at this through the trust counsel direction. But it just feels

[2:03:52] Trustee Stamford: like it's a dangler that keeps coming back to bite us. So that's through the

[2:03:59] Trustee Stamford: angle I'm looking at. Just a comment.

[2:04:03] Trustee Stamford: Theo, mom?

[2:04:06] Voice 7: I'll just throw out a comment there. It's not really related to budget requests, but it is related

[2:04:10] Voice 7: to what Trustee

[2:04:10] Voice 7: Sanford is getting at. I've had that observation as well, that we have the

[2:04:17] Voice 7: governance report, we have the governance committee who sort of has listed a few

[2:04:20] Voice 7: things that are falling out of that report, not providing a lot of detail as to how we're

[2:04:27] Voice 7: interpreting recommendations and what we're doing to advance recommendations and which ones we

[2:04:31] Voice 7: are choosing not to advance because of X, Y, or Z. What I think would be really valuable for this

[2:04:36] Voice 7: committee and also for Trust Council is actually to have a summary report of here's all the

[2:04:41] Voice 7: recommendations from the governance review. Here's how we interpret them. Here's what we've done to

[2:04:46] Voice 7: to advance or evaluate each of these recommendations

[2:04:49] Voice 7: to date and here is future plans

[2:04:53] Voice 7: for each of the recommendations.

[2:04:54] Voice 7: I have not seen a report

[2:04:57] Voice 7: that really concisely summarizes that.

[2:05:01] Voice 7: I have actually started to put something together

[2:05:03] Voice 7: along those lines just for myself

[2:05:06] Voice 7: and for any future CAO to help understand

[2:05:10] Voice 7: where we're at with this report.

[2:05:11] Voice 7: I think something like that could really help facilitate

[2:05:14] Voice 7: a conversation that Trust Council, which aligns with this governance committee's

[2:05:18] Voice 7: recommendation to council to hold a specific session on the governance report. So I think

[2:05:25] Voice 7: there's a convergence of will there that could align quite nicely.

[2:05:31] Trustee Gedye: That was the work that we

[2:05:33] Trustee Gedye: did the first three months or so of this committee, just to dig deep into that report

[2:05:38] Trustee Gedye: report through governance review all right i'm going to take this one at a time um so uh do we

[2:05:46] Trustee Gedye: request staff to prepare a funding request a business model for the 2025-26 budget for the

[2:05:52] Trustee Gedye: following initiative initiative sorry number one hiring a consultant to review the trustee

[2:05:57] Trustee Gedye: remuneration values is there anybody opposed to that going forward all right so i will assume

[2:06:11] Trustee Gedye: that that means that everybody is in

[2:06:13] Trustee Gedye: favor?

[2:06:14] Voice 3: Who moved that?

[2:06:15] Trustee Gedye: Who seconded that?

[2:06:18] Trustee Gedye: I

[2:06:18] Voice 3: didn't hear the seconder.

[2:06:19] Voice 3: Sorry.

[2:06:21] Voice 3: Do we need a motion?

[2:06:22] Voice 10: Point of order?

[2:06:24] Voice 10: Chair, I don't understand why

[2:06:26] Voice 10: you've made the decision to take these one by

[2:06:28] Voice 10: one. We have a recommendation here

[2:06:30] Voice 10: from the staff of all three of these

[2:06:32] Voice 10: items. I anticipate that they've

[2:06:35] Voice 10: got a resolution somewhere in the background

[2:06:36] Voice 10: for us if we agree.

[2:06:38] Voice 10: So shouldn't we just be dealing with it with a resolution

[2:06:41] Voice 10: to whether or not we adopt the recommendation as presented.

[2:06:45] Trustee Gedye: Well, we've had discussion pro and con on some of these.

[2:06:48] Trustee Gedye: And so that is why I decided I thought it would be best to split it up.

[2:06:56] Voice 9: If I may, Chair, the recommendation is actually on the screen.

[2:07:00] Voice 9: Yes.

[2:07:01] Voice 9: If you want to split it up, you can use the wording

[2:07:03] Voice 9: and then just do one of those at a time.

[2:07:07] Trustee Gedye: So the Governance Committee requests staff to prepare funding requests

[2:07:10] Trustee Gedye: for the 2025-26 budget for the following initiatives.

[2:07:13] Trustee Gedye: Number one, hiring a consultant to review the trustee remuneration values.

[2:07:23] Trustee Gedye: I will move that as the request, the first part of the recommendation.

[2:07:29] Trustee Gedye: Is there a second?

[2:07:32] Trustee Gedye: Stanford, thank you.

[2:07:34] Trustee Gedye: Any more discussion?

[2:07:37] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris.

[2:07:40] Voice 13: I'm not in support of it, honestly.

[2:07:46] Voice 13: I don't think the public is getting their money's worth as it is now.

[2:07:52] Voice 13: um anyway i'll leave it there any

[2:07:57] Trustee Gedye: other discussion all right i'm going to call the vote then um all

[2:08:04] Trustee Gedye: those in favor there's

[2:08:15] Voice 8: six in favor lower

[2:08:17] Trustee Gedye: your hands please any opposed i'm not seeing any

[2:08:26] Trustee Gedye: opposed all right so that one is carried the second one is the the government governance

[2:08:32] Trustee Gedye: committee request staff repair funding request for the 2025-26 budget for the following initiative

[2:08:37] Trustee Gedye: two review of all all trust council policies i'll move that one is there a seconder i'll second

[2:08:48] Voice 10: okay

[2:08:50] Trustee Gedye: and um is there any more discussion on that one trustee stanford yeah

[2:09:01] Trustee Stamford: i'm it's pretty vague

[2:09:03] Trustee Stamford: um i you may probably vote for it but i i'd rather it said specifically

[2:09:11] Trustee Stamford: specifically governance trust council policies do are we honestly going to review all our

[2:09:17] Trustee Stamford: everything um do we need to um is that part of the business case was

[2:09:30] Trustee Gedye: that sort of the discussion

[2:09:32] Trustee Gedye: um sorry trustee patrick yeah

[2:09:37] Voice 3: i think i think it could be modified to say you know the review of

[2:09:44] Voice 3: all trust consult policies uh governance policies because that's really what we're talking about

[2:09:54] Trustee Gedye: trustee bernardo well

[2:09:57] Voice 10: uh with respect to my colleagues i don't think you're thinking right

[2:10:00] Voice 10: about the policies they're all about governance you can have policies that that relate specifically

[2:10:07] Voice 10: to executive committee and what's delegated to it what isn't or how committee meetings are supposed

[2:10:12] Voice 10: to be run but every policy is a rule that applies to how we run the organization and it's a rule

[2:10:17] Voice 10: that we choose to apply to ourselves so it applies to how we govern some are more important than

[2:10:23] Voice 10: others some are more directly concerned with how we operate the organization but staff is it's

[2:10:29] Voice 10: incumbent on staff whenever it brings a proposal to us because they're all policies and when they

[2:10:35] Voice 10: bring a proposal to us for decision they have to consider all of the policies and that makes them

[2:10:41] Voice 10: all relevant to governance and when we're what i suggested before in terms of reviewing all of the

[2:10:47] Voice 10: trust council public policies there's obviously going to have to be some uh approach puzzling out

[2:10:54] Voice 10: a strategy about which are more important to address first and that sort of thing but all of

[2:11:00] Voice 10: the trust council policies are more or less out of date and they should all be reviewed we've already

[2:11:04] Voice 10: heard from um uh director marler that staff is in a pretty close to a position to make a

[2:11:12] Voice 10: a recommendation that chuck about half of them uh that's important you know it's in a sense it's

[2:11:19] Voice 10: housekeeping but it's really important housekeeping so i'm strongly in favor of let's not condition

[2:11:26] Voice 10: this by saying review of all trust council governance policies for one thing that starts

[2:11:30] Voice 10: getting very confusing how do you distinguish between what is and what isn't and as i said

[2:11:35] Voice 10: before they're actually all relevant governments all

[2:11:38] Trustee Gedye: right so it is it fair to say that what we're

[2:11:40] Trustee Gedye: asking is a review of funding to for us to review all of the trust policies to determine which ones

[2:11:49] Trustee Gedye: are specific to governance and need to be reviewed and which ones are perhaps specific to other

[2:11:55] Trustee Gedye: committees or other parts of the organization that are not anything that we have to dig into

[2:12:01] Trustee Gedye: so that the initial research is going to be you know the whole policy manual that

[2:12:09] Trustee Gedye: that giant PDF that Director Marler talked about

[2:12:12] Trustee Gedye: and which ones are ones that we want to dig into and help with

[2:12:17] Trustee Gedye: so that this funding is to help us sort that out in part?

[2:12:21] Voice 10: Well, to be clear, this isn't about funding, really, at this moment.

[2:12:25] Voice 10: It's about building a business case,

[2:12:27] Voice 10: and I would

[2:12:27] Voice 10: anticipate a business case would have to rough out a general approach.

[2:12:33] Trustee Gedye: Yes. Okay.

[2:12:35] Trustee Gedye: Director Marler, sorry, CAO Moms.

[2:12:37] Trustee Gedye: um

[2:12:39] Voice 7: what i would envision for a funding request or business case of this nature

[2:12:45] Voice 7: aligns with trust counsel's already given direction yeah which is go away review all of

[2:12:51] Voice 7: her policies see what can be revised amended consolidated etc governance committee in its

[2:12:58] Voice 7: terms of reference does have the authority to be recommending um on work of that nature

[2:13:06] Voice 7: sure. Any business cases put together would look at how we can approach trust counsel's direction

[2:13:13] Voice 7: to review all of our policies. And in that, if there are policies that this committee should

[2:13:18] Voice 7: be reviewing versus other committees, that would be acknowledged within there. And it might be that

[2:13:23] Voice 7: there are certain policies that another committee should take on instead of this committee, perhaps

[2:13:28] Voice 7: some financial related policies, for example. And we can flush all of those pieces out in a

[2:13:34] Voice 7: business case um you know i agree policies are all you know all the council policies are governing

[2:13:41] Voice 7: policies because that's the governing body um and i i think this approach to look at all of them

[2:13:47] Voice 7: would just align with what council's already told us to do thanks

[2:13:51] Voice 4: trustee harris i'm

[2:13:53] Voice 13: in favor of the

[2:13:54] Voice 13: motion as it sits thank

[2:13:57] Trustee Gedye: you anything else okay trustee middleton

[2:14:02] Trustee Middleton: excuse me yeah i i i think the

[2:14:06] Trustee Middleton: motion captures what we were seeking to do creating the um the business case and then proceeding

[2:14:12] Trustee Middleton: from there encompassing all policy as uh elements of governments okay

[2:14:19] Trustee Gedye: good any other discussion

[2:14:21] Trustee Gedye: then call the vote um all those in favor i

[2:14:32] Voice 9: see seven in favor lower

[2:14:34] Trustee Gedye: your hands that means no

[2:14:36] Trustee Gedye: opposed right all right that one carries all right so then the last one is um governance

[2:14:45] Trustee Gedye: committee request staff to prepare a funding request for a 2025-26 budget for the following

[2:14:50] Trustee Gedye: initiative three investigation of a secretariat staff position for trust council i'll move that

[2:14:57] Trustee Gedye: is there a seconder trustee harris is that a second yes thank you any more discussion

[2:15:06] Trustee Gedye: question. Trustee Middleton.

[2:15:12] Trustee Middleton: Thanks, Jan. I appreciate that it's a new concept and appreciate

[2:15:18] Trustee Middleton: that also there is a role of corporate secretary and there's confusion of terms. But I think what

[2:15:26] Trustee Middleton: we recognize here is that over the last 20 years, there's been a great evolution in requirements for

[2:15:32] Trustee Middleton: independent guidance and oversight in corporate bodies, be they public or private. And so I've

[2:15:40] Trustee Middleton: I've seen that one of the names for it.

[2:15:43] Trustee Middleton: So instead of a corporate secretary, the full name is the corporate board secretary, or

[2:15:48] Trustee Middleton: in our case, it could be the corporate council secretary.

[2:15:51] Trustee Middleton: But there's also other words like you could have the governance officer or governance

[2:15:57] Trustee Middleton: lead or, you know, it doesn't have to be if that word is confusing.

[2:16:01] Trustee Middleton: using. It's basically somebody tasked with a bunch of vital functions and ensure the independence

[2:16:12] Trustee Middleton: and legal compliance of the governing body of the entity, be it a public agency, a government,

[2:16:19] Trustee Middleton: or a corporation. It's a much more prominent role in the last 20 years. And so I understand

[2:16:25] Trustee Middleton: why there's confusion, but I think some simple research, some inexpensive research will flesh out

[2:16:30] Trustee Middleton: the role in a very clear way for for people like trustee stanford who's legitimately pointed out

[2:16:36] Trustee Middleton: that it's it's not clear or staff are saying hey we already have this legitimately like you know

[2:16:42] Trustee Middleton: there's there's a content uh across wire on corporate versus board secretary so i i strongly

[2:16:48] Trustee Middleton: encourage that we support this it needn't be expensive it will give us all the information

[2:16:53] Trustee Middleton: we need and it will allow us to kind of step in with our peers like bc housing have a very clear

[2:16:59] Trustee Middleton: corporate secretary position with a job description on their their website we won't take a lot of

[2:17:05] Trustee Middleton: research to provide that for us to review so i just strongly encourage us all to support this

[2:17:11] Trustee Middleton: third point thank you any

[2:17:15] Trustee Gedye: more discussion all right let's call the vote um um the secretariat

[2:17:23] Trustee Gedye: position all those in favor you

[2:17:25] Voice 6: got

[2:17:35] Voice 4: that david yeah

[2:17:38] Voice 8: there's five in favor okay hands down

[2:17:42] Voice 8: those

[2:17:43] Trustee Gedye: opposed uh

[2:17:47] Voice 8: sorry that's one opposed all right sorry is that two opposed yeah okay thank

[2:17:59] Voice 8: you all

[2:18:00] Trustee Gedye: right so that one carries as well so then there's the uh fourth matter that um

[2:18:07] Trustee Gedye: trustee samford has raised um do we want to include a fourth with respect to

[2:18:12] Trustee Gedye: to getting a business case together

[2:18:15] Trustee Gedye: with respect to communications.

[2:18:17] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stamford?

[2:18:19] Trustee Stamford: I think I appreciated...

[2:18:25] Trustee Gedye: CAO Mobs?

[2:18:27] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, that's the one.

[2:18:30] Trustee Stamford: Her reference,

[2:18:32] Trustee Stamford: and I'm going to follow up with CAO Mobs and yourself

[2:18:38] Trustee Stamford: And just find if there's a different way of approaching this. It's just, you know, not necessarily through a business case, but through an approach to trust counsel. But anyway, it's a topic for another day.

[2:18:53] Trustee Stamford: All

[2:18:54] Trustee Gedye: right. So not to proceed with it then as an additional item. All right. So we finished then the three recommendations on that note. I'm going to suggest that we take a 10 minute break. It's 1120 and come back at 1130. That gives us the last half hour. Anybody opposed to that? All right.

[2:19:25] Trustee Gedye: um let's uh meet back at uh we'll adjourn briefly meet back at 11 30. thank you

[2:30:42] Voice 4: Thank you, Laurie. I

[2:30:59] Trustee Gedye: think we need one more voting trustee to have a quorum. All right. Call the meeting back to order.

[2:31:22] Trustee Gedye: We're at new business 9.1, and we've got this RFD from Trustee Fast with respect to trustee leadership development as a topic for governance committee.

[2:31:44] Trustee Gedye: And the comments from the CAO on this are that there's something coming up in terms of reporting the members that do go to UBCM and AVICC, that there be formalized reporting to Trust Council with respect to the learnings that happen there.

[2:32:06] Trustee Gedye: And there's other recommendations or other suggestions in terms of other resources.

[2:32:13] Trustee Gedye: What about, my suggestion is to maybe get more information, have more discussion at the next council meeting and put this into our matrix, but maybe in the lower left, not one of our priorities and not something that we want to necessarily spend a lot of time on now.

[2:32:35] Trustee Gedye: and just try and figure out what the budget implications are

[2:32:40] Trustee Gedye: and have some more background before we get into it

[2:32:44] Trustee Gedye: and deciding whether or not, in fact, it is an executive.

[2:32:48] Trustee Gedye: We've delegated this to the executive.

[2:32:50] Trustee Gedye: It was a part of the governance review,

[2:32:52] Trustee Gedye: but is it something that is solely the discretion of the governance,

[2:32:57] Trustee Gedye: or sorry, executive, or is this something that we should wade into?

[2:33:01] Trustee Gedye: And what are some of the other things that we need to consider?

[2:33:07] Trustee Gedye: What say you? Any comment on just putting it into the matrix and having a thought about it? Maybe more informal discussions first? Trustee Patrick?

[2:33:24] Voice 3: Sure, we can always park it in a lower area. It is a budget issue. Executive does have that role, and I think they're going to have to make those decisions to recommend spending more money to provide training or not.

[2:33:39] Voice 3: Yeah.

[2:33:40] Trustee Gedye: But I think there is potentially some encouragement or role that we could play in

[2:33:46] Trustee Gedye: terms of what's available and what might be helpful. Sorry, CAO Moms, you're

[2:33:58] Voice 4: mute or something.

[2:34:01] Voice 7: Thanks, Chair. I don't particularly recall this tying back to the governance review report,

[2:34:07] Voice 7: but there's a lot in there. So maybe I'm just not recalling it. Certainly the terms of reference

[2:34:12] Voice 7: friends of executive committee do speak to trustee training. They do have responsibility

[2:34:16] Voice 7: and oversight for that function. One of the things that I've noticed since stepping into

[2:34:23] Voice 7: the interim CAO role is the continuous learning plan, which is usually looked at each term and

[2:34:30] Voice 7: maintained and taken to trust counsel each of the quarterly meetings has not been something that's

[2:34:35] Voice 7: been taking place in the current term. So I've resurrected the continuous learning plan,

[2:34:41] Voice 7: which supports trustee training and have returned a draft to executive committee and will be

[2:34:47] Voice 7: continuing to refine that so that it can once again become part of Trust Council's regular

[2:34:51] Voice 7: meetings. And there's a space there for all of trustees to weigh into future training sessions.

[2:34:55] Voice 7: So there is a process that seemed to have gone dormant that we are now resurrecting that I think

[2:35:01] Voice 7: will support stronger advancement of trustee training. In relation to UBCM, AVIC, the Trust

[2:35:07] Voice 7: council does have a particular policy on that already i mentioned it here simply because trustee

[2:35:11] Voice 7: fast had mentioned those particular conventions um in her briefing all

[2:35:18] Trustee Gedye: right trustee middleton

[2:35:23] Trustee Middleton: yeah thank you um i think two of you might be unhappy to hear this but one of the key competencies

[2:35:29] Trustee Middleton: or roles of a corporate secretary or a board council secretary is actually the facilitation

[2:35:35] Trustee Middleton: and development of competence development amongst the members.

[2:35:39] Trustee Middleton: And basically, that's done through an assessment of required competencies

[2:35:47] Trustee Middleton: and a gap analysis and a determination of where competence needs to be developed.

[2:35:51] Trustee Middleton: So I encourage an open mind on the role of the board secretary.

[2:35:58] Trustee Middleton: And you will see that there's all manner of beautiful medicine that that role can provide,

[2:36:03] Trustee Middleton: including developing and facilitating competence building

[2:36:07] Trustee Middleton: amongst elected members.

[2:36:09] Trustee Middleton: Thank you.

[2:36:12] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Middleton, contrary to popular voting in the last vote,

[2:36:16] Trustee Gedye: I find it helpful when there's some description of things

[2:36:21] Trustee Gedye: that could fall into that role, the job description.

[2:36:25] Trustee Gedye: So bring it on, but whether or not we'll actually have the money to do it

[2:36:31] Trustee Gedye: is the whole other next stages.

[2:36:33] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo.

[2:36:36] Voice 10: Thank you.

[2:36:39] Voice 10: I mean, the idea has merit.

[2:36:41] Voice 10: I mean, it's a little hard to argue with the idea that, you know, developing leadership and trustees and sort of getting to having some space for trustees to be reflective and consider their approaches to doing their jobs.

[2:36:58] Voice 10: I think that's always helpful.

[2:36:59] Voice 10: full um i'm not sure though that it's a topic for the governance committee uh at this stage um

[2:37:10] Voice 10: and it's intriguing to me that really we already have a policy in place for this and a responsibility

[2:37:15] Voice 10: the executive committee uh is actually has oversight over this and perhaps a way for us

[2:37:21] Voice 10: to approach this is to take trustee bass suggestion seriously and uh forward it to

[2:37:28] Voice 10: executive committee and say look you do your job um you guys have allowed this to sort of sit

[2:37:33] Voice 10: foul for a while no criticism there's only so much time in a day you've got a zillion things in front

[2:37:38] Voice 10: of you but you might want to reconsider this one i don't see it at this point being particularly

[2:37:45] Voice 10: useful or helpful for the governance committee to take this on even as a low priority item on

[2:37:51] Voice 10: on the matrix.

[2:37:51] Voice 10: If we put it as a low priority item on the matrix,

[2:37:58] Voice 10: in a sense, we take possession of an issue

[2:38:00] Voice 10: that could be dealt with in parallel with our work.

[2:38:04] Voice 10: It could be dealt with by executive committee

[2:38:06] Voice 10: and compliment what we're doing.

[2:38:08] Voice 10: If we put it on the matrix,

[2:38:10] Voice 10: it's basically gonna go at the back of the line

[2:38:12] Voice 10: because we have these other priorities.

[2:38:13] Voice 10: And I think for us on the governance committee,

[2:38:16] Voice 10: it's premature to even talk about

[2:38:20] Voice 10: developing trustee leadership

[2:38:21] Voice 10: leadership, because, I mean, we just last meeting, I mean, we resolved on the draft of a letter to go

[2:38:29] Voice 10: to the province that identifies structural issues and asks for help with them. And the thrust of our

[2:38:34] Voice 10: case is no amount of internal leadership is going to solve those things. So we've got that whole

[2:38:40] Voice 10: thing up there that is basically leadership neutral. It's structural. Then we have the policy

[2:38:46] Voice 10: issues that I've just talked about today and other issues that we have in the matrix that are all

[2:38:49] Voice 10: related to that so in terms of governance structure um you know let's get real here

[2:38:57] Voice 10: this governance committee for the rest of this term we've got plenty that's going to occupy us

[2:39:01] Voice 10: and that we're going to put um focus on and in fact we need to clear that stuff up before we

[2:39:07] Voice 10: actually know what kind of leadership we need from trustees that includes corporate planning

[2:39:11] Voice 10: so as a governance committee i'm not saying leadership training is irrelevant but i'm saying

[2:39:18] Voice 10: as a governance committee issue i don't think it is germane to this term's work it is germane

[2:39:25] Voice 10: though to the executive committee's mandate so i i would view the recommendation here for us to

[2:39:31] Voice 10: um forward trustee fat's suggestion uh to executive committee and urge executive committee to

[2:39:39] Voice 10: um reassess it's probably it's not for us to tell what the ec's priority should be too but

[2:39:44] Voice 10: But please re-examine this and reassess its priorities as to leadership because the suggestions seem to be good.

[2:39:54] Trustee Gedye: Did this not come from, did it not first go to executive committee and then came back to us?

[2:40:02] Trustee Gedye: Sorry, that's Chair Luckham, your hand is up, but Trustee Harris was up ahead of you.

[2:40:08] Voice 13: Well, I can wait to hear if it went to executive committee first.

[2:40:13] Trustee Gedye: Okay,

[2:40:13] Voice 13: Trustee Luckham?

[2:40:19] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Luckham?

[2:40:20] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, sorry about that. Yeah, whether this came from Executive Committee to Governance Committee, I don't honestly recall. Apologies for that. However, certainly this has been a discussion at Executive Committee and never achieves a high enough level of priority to be undertaken.

[2:40:48] Trustee Luckham: taken, but certainly, you know, under the auspices of Trust Council orientation and

[2:40:58] Trustee Luckham: revisiting orientation and providing opportunities for learning and working within a governance

[2:41:04] Trustee Luckham: framework is critically important and indeed instilling and developing leadership skills

[2:41:13] Trustee Luckham: and awareness.

[2:41:14] Trustee Luckham: So I would just say that I would be, I don't know about my colleagues on executive committee, would be grateful for an endorsement that this is an important topic and should be prioritized because I do believe that there are elements of this that could be prioritized,

[2:41:34] Trustee Luckham: particularly as we go into the second half of our term here, this is the opportunity for us to take

[2:41:39] Trustee Luckham: leadership and advance those items that are important to council. I just note briefly,

[2:41:48] Trustee Luckham: structured decision-making has come up quite often at executive committee and facilitating

[2:41:53] Trustee Luckham: a session for council to develop structured decision-making. And indeed, that's part and

[2:41:59] Trustee Luckham: parcel of this uh conversation there you go thank you christy harris

[2:42:05] Voice 13: it's it's kind of my

[2:42:07] Voice 13: understanding that we've had some opportunities for developing leadership amongst ourselves as

[2:42:16] Voice 13: elected um elected officials um i forget the you know the titles of the things that have gone on

[2:42:24] Voice 13: but i think there was a chair orientation thing that went on and um so anyways i don't know where

[2:42:30] Voice 13: this is supposed to sit at this point i'm it's kind of i'm not sure why i'm even i'm not uh

[2:42:39] Voice 13: it's not that i'm against this but i don't i don't see its place here right now is there

[2:42:43] Voice 13: so much going on um i'll just leave it at that thank you

[2:42:47] Voice 4: trustee stamford yes

[2:42:50] Trustee Stamford: thank you chair

[2:42:50] Trustee Stamford: i i see this under the um trustee orientation in that build up um that we're looking at um

[2:42:59] Trustee Stamford: for new trustees. I think one of the things we need to get our heads around is, unlike other

[2:43:09] Trustee Stamford: structures, like a corporate structure, we get who we get. We don't have control over who comes to

[2:43:19] Trustee Stamford: the table. And so we're often missing critical skill sets. And if that kind of thing could be

[2:43:27] Trustee Stamford: identified early, and then an opportunity for specific or for trustees to make use of specific

[2:43:36] Trustee Stamford: skill building, I think it would help not just in the term that we're looking at, but in long term

[2:43:44] Trustee Stamford: succession and leadership, skill development. And so that's sort of how I see this, it's more of a

[2:43:50] Trustee Stamford: long term it certainly doesn't need to be dealt with right now but in terms of building our skill

[2:43:58] Trustee Stamford: sets for new trustees and trustees over terms um in the long run that helps our governance and our

[2:44:06] Trustee Stamford: leadership all

[2:44:07] Trustee Gedye: right um we're running out of time so um trustee harris i

[2:44:14] Voice 13: guess what i forgot to add

[2:44:15] Voice 13: That is, this also seems vague to me.

[2:44:18] Voice 13: The specifics aren't there.

[2:44:20] Voice 13: There's clearly, it's a pretty deep dive to get into all that.

[2:44:24] Voice 13: And, you know, off the top of my head, just thinking out loud, I would think that it would

[2:44:27] Voice 13: need to be a voluntary type of thing.

[2:44:30] Voice 13: As far as, you know, we get who we get.

[2:44:32] Voice 13: Well, yeah, the public elects us.

[2:44:35] Voice 13: And I realize in some instances, it's because people are just in their position because

[2:44:40] Voice 13: no one else ran against them.

[2:44:41] Voice 13: Um, but, um, anyway, I, I don't, I'm not sure why it's here at this point.

[2:44:47] Voice 13: Um, I won't be voting in favor of it.

[2:44:49] Voice 13: Thank you.

[2:44:52] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[2:44:53] Trustee Gedye: So given that, um, CAO Mobs has indicated that there's a continuous learning plan that

[2:44:59] Trustee Gedye: has been dormant and that that is going, sorry, CAO Mobs.

[2:45:03] Voice 7: I'm happy for you to finish your comment, sir.

[2:45:06] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[2:45:07] Trustee Gedye: That that is going to be, um, revived and, um, either put to executive committee or put

[2:45:13] Trustee Gedye: to trust committee somehow or other back on um have another look at it that um we park this for

[2:45:20] Trustee Gedye: now um i'm i was suggesting it go on to the matrix just so that we didn't forget about it

[2:45:25] Trustee Gedye: uh not necessarily that it was going to be something that we would pick up and work on but

[2:45:29] Trustee Gedye: we just get a bit more information in terms of what's happening with that continuous learning

[2:45:34] Trustee Gedye: plan and um it come may come up in terms of the next the last point on our agenda which is the

[2:45:41] Trustee Gedye: executive committee restructuring. So my recommendation was that we just park this

[2:45:49] Trustee Gedye: in the bottom left of the matrix just to have a placeholder to keep an eye on it, not forget about

[2:45:55] Trustee Gedye: it. Or maybe the follow-up action list, but that should coincide with our matrix. Is there any

[2:46:03] Trustee Gedye: opposition to that? CAO Moms.

[2:46:10] Voice 7: Encourage the committee to keep items on the matrix to work

[2:46:14] Voice 7: pieces that this committee will be advancing there's some comments below the priorities

[2:46:21] Voice 7: matrix around what other committees are doing that might be advancing so if you wanted it on

[2:46:27] Voice 7: this particular reference piece that's where I would suggest it lands again I do encourage that

[2:46:32] Voice 7: this simply be forwarded to executive committee it's in their terms of reference the trustee

[2:46:36] Voice 7: training policy is a council policy 6.12.1 it has a clause in there that indicates it's expected

[2:46:44] Voice 7: that trustees, if they wish to attend training in the upcoming fiscal year, will submit a training

[2:46:49] Voice 7: request to the budget cycle. I never see that happen. It might be that trustees are unaware

[2:46:59] Voice 7: of this. We have a lot of policies as we've identified here. It's easy to forget about

[2:47:05] Voice 7: one clause in one policy. So certainly that might be something that we can simply prompt

[2:47:10] Voice 7: to trustees about if there's particular training you know or conferences you're interested in next

[2:47:16] Voice 7: fiscal to put something into the budget cycle and yes the continuous learning plan is being

[2:47:21] Voice 7: resurrected with the executive committee all

[2:47:24] Trustee Luckham: right chair luckham yeah thank you uh just kind

[2:47:31] Trustee Luckham: of thinking you know have you ever gone into a grocery store with a basket and realized you

[2:47:34] Trustee Luckham: should have got the shopping cart because this is one of those things um i would say i'm just

[2:47:41] Trustee Luckham: going to say, time marches on. And in the next 12 to 18 months, the consideration of a future

[2:47:49] Trustee Luckham: trust counsel orientation is going to be the subject of discussion. And anything that the

[2:47:55] Trustee Luckham: governance committee, by considering this at some other point in time, to help inform that process

[2:48:02] Trustee Luckham: of an appropriate orientation package would be appreciated

[2:48:07] Trustee Luckham: because often historically webinars and training sessions

[2:48:12] Trustee Luckham: are pushed back and yet there seems to be difficulty

[2:48:17] Trustee Luckham: in understanding or remembering the things that you learned

[2:48:21] Trustee Luckham: on the first three days of being elected.

[2:48:25] Trustee Luckham: And this is a really important thing.

[2:48:29] Trustee Luckham: We need to invest in the skills of our trustees.

[2:48:33] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[2:48:33] Trustee Gedye: So then I'm going to amend my suggestion that it go below the matrix into the non-urgent important items under close exam, close examined by other council committees.

[2:48:46] Trustee Gedye: And we put ongoing leadership training dealt with by executive.

[2:48:58] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Harris.

[2:49:00] Voice 13: Thank you.

[2:49:00] Voice 13: yeah i was just going to add um i didn't feel that it belonged in the matrix um you know a small

[2:49:06] Voice 13: addition you know the quality of the training means something too i'll leave it there trustee

[2:49:14] Voice 4: bernardo

[2:49:15] Voice 13: thank

[2:49:17] Voice 10: you um uh and also thank you for your just most recent suggestion i think that's

[2:49:22] Voice 10: the way to go with this thing um uh this issue as ceo mobs just pointed out actually falls under

[2:49:28] Voice 10: under the executive committee's terms of reference,

[2:49:30] Voice 10: it just hasn't been acting on it.

[2:49:33] Voice 10: For that reason, that's my main reason

[2:49:35] Voice 10: for opposing putting it on the matrix,

[2:49:36] Voice 10: which is I don't think we want to set up anything

[2:49:39] Voice 10: that frankly gives executive committee a reason

[2:49:43] Voice 10: to think that somebody else is doing its job.

[2:49:45] Voice 10: We're not going to, I think we do want executive committee

[2:49:49] Voice 10: to confront its responsibilities and putting it there

[2:49:54] Voice 10: as you've just suggested, Chair Getty, is the right place

[2:49:57] Voice 10: because that enables us to sort of continue what i'm advocating for what i'm suggesting which is

[2:50:02] Voice 10: an advocacy role which is come on executive committee this is important pick it up

[2:50:07] Voice 10: thank you all

[2:50:10] Trustee Gedye: right so um i'm going to suggest that this get parked then below the matrix under

[2:50:15] Trustee Gedye: that non-urgent um non-urgent important items under the closed yeah it's hard difficult wording

[2:50:26] Trustee Gedye: but um into that section of the matrix um any more discussion i don't think this is a motion

[2:50:37] Trustee Gedye: i think this is just an agreement that this is where we park it for now okay anybody opposed to

[2:50:45] Trustee Gedye: that all right let's uh let's try to finish up we've got about um 10 minutes left nine minutes

[2:50:52] Trustee Gedye: um to the schedule and we've got this edition of the executive committee restructuring this was

[2:50:58] Trustee Gedye: your item joe 9.2 uh

[2:51:05] Voice 10: it's actually peter's oh

[2:51:07] Trustee Gedye: sorry you're

[2:51:08] Trustee Luckham: right peter yeah thank you um this

[2:51:12] Trustee Luckham: was not intended to be a lengthy conversation mostly a heads up with something that i've been

[2:51:18] Trustee Luckham: working on and thinking about for a number of months and of course as i said earlier time

[2:51:24] Trustee Luckham: marches on so i'm just going to be really brief here um this is not fully uh flushed out in this

[2:51:30] Trustee Luckham: sort of synopsis. But I wanted to gather whether or not there's support for this sort of thinking

[2:51:38] Trustee Luckham: and work, and whether or not the governance committee wanted to have a subcommittee of sorts

[2:51:43] Trustee Luckham: to flush out the concept. So I'm just going to provide, so the rationale for this is that

[2:51:50] Trustee Luckham: the review of the governance structure has been identified in the governance report.

[2:51:54] Trustee Luckham: court. The province, historically, when we ask them to advise us on different or better ways to

[2:52:00] Trustee Luckham: do things, the standard response always seems to be that we are the best informed to lead change

[2:52:07] Trustee Luckham: and we should get on with it. And then furthermore, the reason to raise this at this time rather than

[2:52:14] Trustee Luckham: continue to think about it is that if we want to realize any change in our term, now is the time to

[2:52:20] Trustee Luckham: undertake those initiatives. So, in thinking about how we govern and how we do things and

[2:52:26] Trustee Luckham: how we manage the work that we do, of course, in my role on executive committee, that's the focus.

[2:52:33] Trustee Luckham: And in very simplistic terms, the executive committee has two roles at the Island Trust,

[2:52:38] Trustee Luckham: one being the overall administrative oversight, political guidance and direction,

[2:52:42] Trustee Luckham: direction, and two, local trust committee chairing and policy oversight. The staff ostensibly in all

[2:52:53] Trustee Luckham: the variety of roles support the administration of the Islanders Trust, the local trust committees,

[2:52:58] Trustee Luckham: standing committees, and council. It has been noted significantly that the committees of council

[2:53:05] Trustee Luckham: are or should be the workhorses of the Islanders Trust, as this committee is.

[2:53:09] Trustee Luckham: So it's my observation that all of these committees end up working in silos.

[2:53:16] Trustee Luckham: This is an inadequate communication between committees in order to develop a strategic approach to the overall work that we do, despite the fact that the common purpose and goals and objectives of these bodies is to support local trust committees and land use planning and council and policy development.

[2:53:37] Trustee Luckham: development. So jumping to solutions, which is what this sort of briefing is about, is it occurs

[2:53:43] Trustee Luckham: to me that the executive committee structure and membership and the roles and leadership of the

[2:53:49] Trustee Luckham: standing committees of council needs to change and we need to reconsider it. And certainly the

[2:53:57] Trustee Luckham: The two obvious things are is that chairing and policy oversight of LTCs is a unique and singular activity of which is very different from the overall administration and oversight of the Islands Trust through the Executive Committee.

[2:54:16] Trustee Luckham: There's a significant amount of work, I'll admit, in considering any of these changes.

[2:54:23] Trustee Luckham: changes, they would require provincial support, legislative change, and financial considerations,

[2:54:31] Trustee Luckham: structural configurations, all manner of issues. But just trying to stick to the focus of, without

[2:54:38] Trustee Luckham: necessarily leading to solutions, that we should consider changing the structure of the executive

[2:54:44] Trustee Luckham: committee. So let me share with you what I think that that might look like as one possible scenario.

[2:54:52] Trustee Luckham: But I want to open up the conversation to just determine any number of options associated

[2:54:58] Trustee Luckham: with it to better govern the Islanders Trust.

[2:55:02] Trustee Luckham: The two roles noted at the beginning that I mentioned at the beginning should be entirely

[2:55:06] Trustee Luckham: separate, although the reporting needs to be continued in some fashion or another.

[2:55:13] Trustee Luckham: Overall administration, oversight, political guidance and direction should be continued

[2:55:17] Trustee Luckham: under executive committee.

[2:55:18] Trustee Luckham: local trust committee chairing and policy oversight should be undertaken by a new committee.

[2:55:23] Trustee Luckham: I envision the executive committee in this change be composed of elected by council members

[2:55:31] Trustee Luckham: from council that are a chair and each of the chairs of the standing committees. This would

[2:55:40] Trustee Luckham: be a five-person executive committee. Further, I believe it would be in the best interest of

[2:55:44] Trustee Luckham: council and the province to appoint at least one, if not two members to the executive committee

[2:55:50] Trustee Luckham: that will represent the interests of First Nation and the province at large. I'd suggest

[2:55:55] Trustee Luckham: that the LTC chairs be either elected or appointed by executive committee, expressions of interest

[2:56:02] Trustee Luckham: from council, and that opportunities be provided for local trustees to provide formal input on the

[2:56:09] Trustee Luckham: the actual appointments. There's so much more to discuss on this. But what I realize and have

[2:56:16] Trustee Luckham: observed over the years is that decisions that executive committee make often don't have the

[2:56:20] Trustee Luckham: information of their needs from committees. And therefore, it gets deferred out or referred to,

[2:56:27] Trustee Luckham: such as the topic we just had now that may or may not have been referred to governance committee,

[2:56:31] Trustee Luckham: because we don't have a governance committee representative sitting on the executive

[2:56:35] Trustee Luckham: Committee. And those chairs are the decision makers and certainly stewarding the work of

[2:56:43] Trustee Luckham: the committees made up of trust counsel trustees, but that a more effective executive committee

[2:56:50] Trustee Luckham: may be had by bringing the chairs, the leadership teams together to actually undertake the

[2:56:58] Trustee Luckham: administrative oversight and political guidance and direction of the Alliance Trust.

[2:57:03] Trustee Luckham: us so interested in whether or not there's any interest in that and and then how it is that we

[2:57:09] Trustee Luckham: might pursue it i'm happy to have more discussions but i wanted to i've talked to a few trustees

[2:57:14] Trustee Luckham: about this and it's time for uh me to take some more positive direction trustee harris

[2:57:21] Voice 13: well i'm hoping that this letter to the province will open this type of thing up to a huge degree

[2:57:27] Voice 13: But, Chair Luckum, did I hear you say that Executive Committee doesn't have representatives on the Governance Committee?

[2:57:36] Voice 4: Vice versa.

[2:57:38] Trustee Luckham: Vice versa, yeah.

[2:57:39] Trustee Luckham: Vice

[2:57:39] Voice 13: versa? Okay, thank you.

[2:57:43] Trustee Stamford: Trustee Stamford?

[2:57:46] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, there's a whole lot in there, and I'm really excited to be part of that conversation.

[2:57:53] Trustee Stamford: I'd like to see us just discuss it, either in committee or as a trust council.

[2:57:59] Trustee Stamford: It seems to be this ongoing concern and I keep saying distrust, but it just keeps going on term after term.

[2:58:13] Trustee Stamford: So, yeah, I'm looking forward to this. One of the things I wouldn't mind, Peter, is do you have that written out?

[2:58:19] Trustee Stamford: Can you send it to me? There was a lot.

[2:58:22] Trustee Stamford: I

[2:58:22] Trustee Luckham: would offer to send it. It continues to change.

[2:58:26] Trustee Luckham: I would offer to send it to the committee. I chose not to send it because it just continuously evolves. And I wanted to see whether or not there was any interest. And in which case, I'm more than happy to circulate a more refined version of it.

[2:58:41] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, there's an interest sort of on a vague sense for me, like, you know, as far as a conversation starter, I'd like to see it. Thank you.

[2:58:48] Trustee Stamford: so

[2:58:50] Trustee Gedye: this is new business so um you know wanting to get into more depth is the the question for today

[2:58:57] Trustee Gedye: not getting into more depth today that's right

[2:59:01] Trustee Luckham: not getting into more depth today yeah

[2:59:03] Trustee Gedye: we've got

[2:59:04] Trustee Gedye: one minute left no i've got 12 o'clock on my clock so trustee bernardo uh

[2:59:10] Voice 10: yes i do think this

[2:59:11] Voice 10: is worth exploring uh the dimensions of the exploration how we do it i think is a real

[2:59:16] Voice 10: question as trustee harris pointed out we've made an overture where we propose to make an

[2:59:21] Voice 10: overture to the province it is going to address it it raises the question of structural change

[2:59:26] Voice 10: and the points that peter referred to uh with respect to the executive committee that that um

[2:59:32] Voice 10: that would require legislative change uh i think in that area um it can't hurt for us to start

[2:59:41] Voice 10: developing our own thoughts we don't have a we're nowhere close to having proposals to get to the

[2:59:46] Voice 10: province but for us to develop our own thoughts for when we do start having that conversation

[2:59:50] Voice 10: with the province i think can be helpful i also think though um in keeping with what

[2:59:55] Voice 10: peter had pointed out which is the province

[3:00:00] Voice 10: likes to say we're the experts so we should be the ones who do a lot of this stuff um easy for

[3:00:06] Voice 10: them to say until they actually get a proposal and then let's see how they act but um i think

[3:00:11] Voice 10: what peter's suggesting is complementary to what we're doing the overture of the province i think

[3:00:15] Voice 10: it dovetails with the idea of a policy review and really i think peter it's an argument in favor of

[3:00:21] Voice 10: moving um a reassessment of the terms of reference for the executive committee to

[3:00:27] Voice 10: somewhere near the top of the policy review part you know if we end up doing a policy review that

[3:00:33] Voice 10: would be somewhere near the top and i would suggest that uh yes let's explore it but let's

[3:00:38] Voice 10: reassess let's do the exploration in the first instance by focusing on what is actually within

[3:00:43] Voice 10: our power to do now without legislative change and that will leave the legislative change

[3:00:48] Voice 10: discussion under the big umbrella of the thing with the province and in the meantime we do

[3:00:53] Voice 10: By doing the interim work of what we can do now, that will educate us in terms of what structural changes we think might be useful.

[3:01:04] Voice 10: It'll be a learning exercise.

[3:01:05] Voice 10: To just work within the existing framework will be a learning exercise that will help us develop proposals for statutory changes.

[3:01:12] Voice 10: So, yes, let's explore.

[3:01:14] Voice 3: Christy Patrick.

[3:01:16] Voice 3: I say, yes, let's explore, but I think the issue is larger than just structural.

[3:01:20] Voice 3: I mean, I've got 13 pages of delegated authorities to executive committee, and so there's a review of that.

[3:01:27] Voice 3: That would come through the policy review of what belongs to trust counsel, what belongs to executive committee.

[3:01:33] Voice 3: We also know that we need to review our committees and structure of our committees and put them more in align with corporate planning.

[3:01:40] Voice 3: We may need different types of committees each term based on what the strategic priorities and objectives are of trust counsel.

[3:01:48] Voice 3: So there's a lot of moving parts that need to change, and I think this is just one of them.

[3:01:54] Voice 3: So, yes, interested, but let's make sure we're looking at the right order and package.

[3:02:01] Trustee Gedye: And that comes with the policy review work we want to do.

[3:02:06] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Peterson.

[3:02:10] Voice 12: Yeah, thank you.

[3:02:13] Voice 12: Excellent thoughts so far.

[3:02:15] Voice 12: I think this is worth exploring.

[3:02:17] Voice 12: exploring uh nothing should be off the table in terms of uh of uh reimagining how things might

[3:02:25] Voice 12: work better uh more efficiently more equitably all of those things so i appreciate uh i appreciate

[3:02:31] Voice 12: you bringing this uh to us chair luckham and uh hope that we get an opportunity to discuss it

[3:02:37] Voice 12: uh further at a later date thank you all

[3:02:44] Trustee Luckham: right chair if i might yes so thank you for the feedback

[3:02:48] Trustee Luckham: back. And actually, I'm going to take it that Stanford, Bernardo, Patrick and Peterson,

[3:02:53] Trustee Luckham: I'll circulate these original thoughts. And perhaps we can develop them together and bring

[3:02:59] Trustee Luckham: them back to this committee.

[3:03:02] Trustee Gedye: All right, well, I would ask that you

[3:03:04] Trustee Gedye: circulate it to the to the

[3:03:07] Trustee Gedye: membership. Okay. And then anybody that wants to work on it, put your hand up.

[3:03:12] Trustee Luckham: All right. Thank

[3:03:13] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, then.

[3:03:16] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stanford?

[3:03:18] Trustee Stamford: Yes, I'd love to work on it.

[3:03:21] Trustee Gedye: Okay.

[3:03:23] Trustee Gedye: So we now have, I've got a council meeting at 1 o'clock,

[3:03:31] Trustee Gedye: so I have to work on wrapping this up.

[3:03:35] Trustee Gedye: Pages 48 and 49 of our agenda are the active projects report,

[3:03:40] Trustee Gedye: and that's all the material that we've been through already in terms of,

[3:03:44] Trustee Gedye: I think that unless there's more clarification needed that those have been

[3:03:48] Trustee Gedye: dealt with CAO moms,

[3:03:51] Trustee Gedye: you got any lingering problems with that work active research,

[3:03:56] Trustee Gedye: whatever active projects report.

[3:04:00] Voice 7: No, it's here for the committee's review. You know,

[3:04:03] Voice 7: we have had some conversations today around priorities and work that wants to

[3:04:09] Voice 7: be advanced sort of in the next quarter or so.

[3:04:12] Voice 7: So if there's pieces not reflected here, we could certainly add them.

[3:04:16] Voice 7: There's already five there, which is more than enough work.

[3:04:21] Voice 7: But if there's other things, it's a good way to track the committee's priorities.

[3:04:24] Voice 7: Of course, there's a priority matrix as well.

[3:04:26] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[3:04:27] Trustee Gedye: So then last on the agenda is the matrix.

[3:04:32] Trustee Gedye: Second to last.

[3:04:33] Trustee Gedye: Then there's the next meeting.

[3:04:35] Trustee Gedye: So page 50 of the agenda is the existing work matrix.

[3:04:39] Trustee Gedye: metrics so um cao mobs has added a legend in terms of not started in progress and complete

[3:04:47] Trustee Gedye: um so you'll see that that has um changed slightly um the the other things that have

[3:04:56] Trustee Gedye: been completed in the urgent and high priority is the uh open closed meetings in section three

[3:05:01] Trustee Gedye: mandate examination um so if we want to keep track of all the work that we have done then those

[3:05:07] Trustee Gedye: could go back in. Is there any, are there any other changes? I had thought that the compensation

[3:05:16] Trustee Gedye: was, we were requested at one of the previous council meetings to move that into the high and

[3:05:23] Trustee Gedye: important. So I see that it's over in the upper left and what we've worked on today in terms of

[3:05:31] Trustee Gedye: the budget request puts it into the urgent and high priority. So if we need to keep up to date

[3:05:37] Trustee Gedye: with the matrix i think that needs to work be moved over anybody opposed to that i think you're

[3:05:46] Voice 10: right all

[3:05:49] Trustee Gedye: right and the other thing that um was in our follow-up action list that isn't on the matrix

[3:05:55] Trustee Gedye: is the um discussion with trust council about the governance review and that's come up in our

[3:06:02] Trustee Gedye: discussions today so where do we park do we include that in the matrix and where do we park it

[3:06:07] Trustee Gedye: i

[3:06:08] Voice 10: think it's high priority and uh urgent uh we we have not provided well first of all trust

[3:06:16] Voice 10: council has not for itself assessed the governance report it created a governance committee us

[3:06:23] Voice 10: um to sort of be at least the first cut and thinking about these things and when we a couple

[3:06:29] Voice 10: of years ago looked at this you know we didn't really do a huge amount of analysis in terms of

[3:06:35] Voice 10: of weighing the merits of the report we looked at the we looked at the recommendations that were

[3:06:40] Voice 10: feasible for us to grasp our hands around which is to say the ones that didn't require legislative

[3:06:45] Voice 10: reform and we simply ordered them by order of priority as opposed to sort of doing a larger

[3:06:51] Voice 10: or deeper analytical drill into it and I think the policy review is part of that because I think many

[3:06:58] Voice 10: of the issues in the governance report stem from inadequate policies but what we have not done

[3:07:04] Voice 10: is have that conversation at trust council about weighing the merits of the governance report and

[3:07:09] Voice 10: it's incumbent on us as a committee to start that conversation and actually have a position

[3:07:14] Voice 10: and actually provide a starting point for trustees to either agree or disagree with our analysis but

[3:07:20] Voice 10: it's for us i think to analyze this thing uh and and to to weigh the different recommendations

[3:07:27] Voice 10: uh as you pointed out before chair getty we started to some extent doing that uh in the

[3:07:33] Voice 10: the first few months of our work as a committee. Different trustees produced some written work

[3:07:38] Voice 10: in terms of providing analysis. And I think if we circle back to that, and I think we've had

[3:07:45] Voice 10: enough experience with these issues that I think in a reasonably, you know, if we had a committee

[3:07:52] Voice 10: of the whole meeting of this committee, in order to sort of just look at that one question,

[3:07:57] Voice 10: and we just bang things back and forth in terms of getting to an analysis, I think we might be

[3:08:01] Voice 10: be able to get to an assessment fit

[3:08:06] Voice 10: for referring to Trust Council pretty quick.

[3:08:09] Trustee Gedye: Do we want to try and organize a Committee of the Whole

[3:08:12] Trustee Gedye: or a special meeting to do that

[3:08:15] Trustee Gedye: before our next Governance Committee work meeting?

[3:08:20] Trustee Gedye: That's November 18th.

[3:08:22] Trustee Gedye: So that would be sometime in October.

[3:08:25] Voice 10: I would be supportive of that.

[3:08:26] Trustee Gedye: Early November.

[3:08:28] Trustee Gedye: If we wanted to get it,

[3:08:29] Trustee Gedye: But how do we get it into the December meeting?

[3:08:34] Trustee Gedye: Is that time all allocated for Trust Council?

[3:08:39] Voice 7: I can weigh in, Chair.

[3:08:41] Trustee Gedye: Yep.

[3:08:43] Voice 7: So Governance Committee has a recommendation to Council to hold a special session to look at this report.

[3:08:50] Voice 7: We did consider or I consider taking this to September as Trust Council just to see if Council wants to do that.

[3:08:56] Voice 7: Right.

[3:08:56] Voice 7: We need to know that they're interested in that.

[3:08:58] Voice 7: There's no room on the September agenda.

[3:09:01] Voice 7: So that hasn't been placed there as a decision item.

[3:09:07] Voice 7: The resolution from governance committee does suggest it happened in 2024.

[3:09:13] Voice 7: The earliest place would be December or the only place would be December.

[3:09:19] Voice 7: If we're going to do that, March might be a reasonable place as well.

[3:09:22] Voice 7: March, 2025,

[3:09:25] Voice 7: but the December trust council schedule has not yet been officially set.

[3:09:30] Voice 7: We've got the three day outline,

[3:09:31] Voice 7: line but the particular items are not uh specifically set however usually they're

[3:09:35] Voice 7: driven by the work programs of committees the governance committee work program doesn't have

[3:09:40] Voice 7: this on it um it would need to be added all

[3:09:44] Trustee Gedye: right so there's potentially space uh and time in the

[3:09:50] Trustee Gedye: december meeting and we've got a whole bunch of work to do between now and then if we're going to

[3:09:54] Trustee Gedye: get it in there and one of which is to have a discussion with trust council maybe well

[3:10:01] Trustee Gedye: Well, obviously, the first step in terms of whether or not they want to spend time reviewing it and understanding it.

[3:10:09] Trustee Gedye: So we have done a fairly good job in terms of understanding what's in there, not analyzing and not going into any more detail than a very early go around.

[3:10:22] Trustee Gedye: So what about, should we try and organize the Committee of the Whole working meeting for this whole committee and have maybe the results of that reported to the December Trust Council meeting?

[3:10:39] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Stamford?

[3:10:41] Trustee Stamford: Yes, I'd be interested in participating in that, any of the whole setup.

[3:10:50] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Bernardo?

[3:10:52] Voice 10: likewise i'd be supportive but i would want the committee of the whole meeting to also

[3:10:56] Voice 10: the way we would structure it is at the conclusion the committee the whole meeting we shift into a

[3:11:01] Voice 10: proper committee meeting because whatever the committee as a whole meeting is a committee of

[3:11:05] Voice 10: the whole all we can do is recommend to actually move something for the trust council we have to

[3:11:13] Voice 10: sit at the committee proper and i would anticipate if we have success in terms of

[3:11:17] Voice 10: reaching some conclusions uh it would be helpful to be able to sort of resolve at the end of that

[3:11:24] Voice 10: um something along the lines of yes we want this to go forward to trust council and we have a

[3:11:33] Voice 10: position that we take to trust council so that we so we can actually frankly lead a fruitful

[3:11:39] Voice 10: discussion over there about the analysis of it so okay you know just opening up this just having a

[3:11:46] Voice 10: meeting in december and saying should we discuss it in march that's not helpful let's actually

[3:11:50] Voice 10: discuss the governance review in december all

[3:11:56] Trustee Gedye: right maybe ceo moms um

[3:12:01] Voice 7: i just wanted to clarify

[3:12:01] Voice 7: that what i'm hearing correctly is there's a desire to have a committee of the whole of

[3:12:06] Voice 7: governance committee and i would seek director marler's input there because um you know committee

[3:12:13] Voice 7: of the whole has no decision making power it can only make recommendations council committees have

[3:12:18] Voice 7: have no decision making power, they can only make recommendations. So it's unclear to me what the

[3:12:22] Voice 7: distinction might be. It might simply be that we have a committee meeting. And it's not in a sort

[3:12:29] Voice 7: of Committee of the Whole type format. But I would need to see clarification from Director Marler

[3:12:34] Voice 7: on that front. And I see he's turned his camera on. If we may go over

[3:12:39] Trustee Gedye: to the chair.

[3:12:39] Trustee Gedye: Director Marler.

[3:12:41] Voice 9: Yeah, Committee of the Whole is intended for Trust Council or the whole of

[3:12:45] Voice 9: of trust council so the committees themselves by definition can't be committees of the whole you

[3:12:51] Voice 9: already are a committee and you're already having discussions so i would just have a committee

[3:12:55] Voice 9: meeting and just agree on how you're going to have the discussion at that meeting all

[3:13:01] Trustee Gedye: right i thought

[3:13:01] Trustee Gedye: i just read through section 10a that it was something committees could do but and we'll

[3:13:06] Trustee Gedye: leave that well let's just organize a special committee and or a special meeting uh to talk

[3:13:12] Trustee Gedye: about presentation of the governance review to Trust Council and if we can

[3:13:18] Trustee Gedye: come to an agreement at our whatever special meeting then we can refer it to

[3:13:25] Trustee Gedye: our November 18th meeting and that would give us barely enough time to get it on

[3:13:30] Trustee Gedye: to the Executive Committee agenda for the next the December Trust Council

[3:13:36] Trustee Gedye: right november 18th that's is that three weeks before

[3:13:44] Voice 6: barely

[3:13:46] Trustee Gedye: laurie

[3:13:52] Voice 7: might have some logistics

[3:13:53] Voice 7: for us um i think december council is three four five yeah i

[3:13:58] Voice 7: have that date correctly

[3:14:01] Voice 7: um so agenda

[3:14:02] Voice 6: would be going out

[3:14:03] Voice 7: november 22nd so the draft agenda would be going out with ec on

[3:14:09] Voice 7: the 15th of november this committee does seem to be meeting sort of immediately after executive

[3:14:13] Voice 7: committee is receiving the draft agenda um seems to be the way things have been planned i'm not

[3:14:20] Voice 7: sure why yep

[3:14:22] Trustee Gedye: that's something we need to pay attention to i think next time so that if we

[3:14:27] Trustee Gedye: are going to try and get something moving that it um give ourselves an opportunity all right so then

[3:14:33] Trustee Gedye: it's um it's special permission and a late item chair luckham yeah

[3:14:39] Trustee Luckham: it seems obvious can we not

[3:14:40] Trustee Luckham: move the governance committee meeting is there a particular reason why it was scheduled after the

[3:14:47] Trustee Luckham: agenda preparation um

[3:14:51] Voice 7: i wasn't part of this committee or in the interim

[3:14:53] Voice 7: caoc that i'm unsure of that we'd have to look into what's logistically possible yeah well the

[3:14:58] Voice 10: history is irrelevant i mean the fact the matter peter's suggestion is a good one if we need to

[3:15:02] Voice 10: get something to trust council and our meeting needs to be rescheduled well let's just do it

[3:15:06] Voice 10: you know and lori can send out a doodle poll over to those things are called we can sort out our

[3:15:11] Voice 10: dates okay

[3:15:13] Voice 4: director marler your

[3:15:19] Voice 8: hand is up okay my apologies i should have lowered it trustee peterson

[3:15:24] Voice 8: um

[3:15:25] Voice 12: yeah i was going to move that the governance committee requests staff to schedule a special

[3:15:32] Voice 12: meeting in october i'll

[3:15:37] Trustee Gedye: second that any um further discussion in october for

[3:15:42] Voice 3: the purposes of deciding

[3:15:44] Voice 3: how you're going to talk about the Governance Committee reviewer presented to Trust Council.

[3:15:49] Trustee Gedye: Thank you. Yes. Trustee Middleton.

[3:15:53] Trustee Middleton: Thank you. I'm not clear why we couldn't just do that

[3:15:58] Trustee Middleton: at the next meeting. Why do we have to have a meeting prior to

[3:16:03] Trustee Middleton: a meeting prior to a meeting? It seems burdensome to me.

[3:16:09] Trustee Gedye: We need the extra time to just talk about the Governance Review

[3:16:13] Trustee Gedye: and not all the other business. That was the original suggestion.

[3:16:18] Trustee Gedye: suggestion, whether it's a COW or whether it's a special meeting.

[3:16:25] Trustee Gedye: Right, well,

[3:16:26] Trustee Gedye: OK, CEO mobs.

[3:16:31] Voice 7: So I guess the two options are move the

[3:16:34] Voice 7: existing governance committee meeting or schedule a special one.

[3:16:36] Voice 7: Those are two distinct options.

[3:16:38] Voice 7: I don't see the resolution on the screen,

[3:16:39] Voice 7: so I don't recall which one is moving forward.

[3:16:43] Voice 7: Planning something for October.

[3:16:44] Voice 7: I will need I do need to mention that's really tough.

[3:16:48] Voice 7: We're in September now

[3:16:50] Voice 7: um and the next two weeks of september one of those um all you know senior staff and executive

[3:16:56] Voice 7: committee are at uvcm we've also got trust council uh the other week and this is the the next week of

[3:17:02] Voice 7: september where we're working to advance to that so i don't think um october october's tough we

[3:17:10] Voice 7: might want a bit of flexibility there um in terms of the date early november might be easier as a

[3:17:15] Voice 7: the reschedule.

[3:17:16] Trustee Gedye: Okay. Trustee

[3:17:17] Trustee Luckham: Luckham. It makes no sense that the governance committee meeting

[3:17:24] Trustee Luckham: where there may be an opportunity to advance something to council happens after executive

[3:17:27] Trustee Luckham: committee considers the council agenda. Whatever the sequence of events is, it would make more

[3:17:36] Trustee Luckham: sense for governance committee to have their final meeting before council in a timely fashion. So

[3:17:41] Trustee Luckham: So whatever's on the agenda doesn't matter.

[3:17:44] Trustee Luckham: We have to plan a little better.

[3:17:46] Trustee Luckham: So back to you.

[3:17:49] Trustee Gedye: Does that mean we should move the November meeting up so that it's before the agenda

[3:17:54] Trustee Gedye: setting session of executive?

[3:17:57] Trustee Luckham: Yes.

[3:17:59] Trustee Luckham: That's how the other committees work.

[3:18:02] Trustee Gedye: All right.

[3:18:03] Trustee Gedye: That might be more likely to happen and easier.

[3:18:07] Trustee Gedye: Any other discussion?

[3:18:09] Trustee Gedye: Trustee Peterson.

[3:18:10] Trustee Gedye: uh

[3:18:11] Voice 12: certainly happy to uh amend the motion to reschedule the november meeting uh prior to

[3:18:19] Voice 12: the executive committee meeting yeah

[3:18:21] Trustee Luckham: and not the day before but laurie knows that

[3:18:25] Trustee Luckham: all

[3:18:27] Trustee Gedye: right so we're amending that motion to request staff to reschedule our november meeting

[3:18:33] Trustee Gedye: so that it is prior to the executive committee agenda

[3:18:37] Trustee Gedye: agenda meeting do we know the date of that yes

[3:18:44] Trustee Luckham: could we get

[3:18:51] Trustee Luckham: that specific inadequate time for

[3:18:55] Trustee Luckham: agenda preparation all that's necessary all

[3:18:59] Trustee Gedye: right inadequate time for the agenda preparation

[3:19:03] Trustee Gedye: all right so that's um an amendment that's accepted by the mover all second the amendment

[3:19:08] Trustee Gedye: as well um is there any more discussion okay call a question all those in favor

[3:19:29] Trustee Gedye: all right so um the last item on the agenda is the next meeting so um it's presently scheduled

[3:19:42] Trustee Gedye: uh and all of our documents is november the 18th we've just moved to ask staff to try and find

[3:19:47] Trustee Gedye: an earlier time so um i guess for our purposes today it has to stay at november 18th um subject

[3:19:58] Trustee Gedye: to um us being able to find uh an alternative time that's before the agenda setting so if that

[3:20:06] Trustee Gedye: fails then we continue on the 18th right motion to adjourn okay trustee peterson are you waving

[3:20:23] Trustee Gedye: goodbye or are you making the motion all right waving goodbye oh okay bye

[3:20:30] Voice 3: everybody thank you

[3:20:32] Trustee Gedye: all it was a really good meeting oh thank you got

[3:20:35] Trustee Gedye: through the agenda thanks