Islands Trust Council regular meeting, September 25, 2024

[0:00:00] Trustee Luckham: Good morning, everybody online. Good morning, everybody here. I hope everybody's well rested and had

[0:00:06] Trustee Luckham: the opportunity to have conversations and think about the work that we've done yesterday. Good work, good conversations. Appreciate all of that.

[0:00:17] Trustee Luckham: that. We've got a speaker's list, which I'm inclined to continue. I'm going to ask you to

[0:00:28] Trustee Luckham: consider, let's get a motion of some kind on the table, or let's defer this, because I think we've

[0:00:36] Trustee Luckham: talked it through a lot. I'm not going to say that we've done it enough, but I'm not seeing a lot of

[0:00:44] Trustee Luckham: movement in any direction to advance this or defeat it completely. I think defeating it completely

[0:00:50] Trustee Luckham: completely isn't what any of us want. We know there's an issue here. We know we want the

[0:00:55] Trustee Luckham: province to assist us in doing something. What is it is the question that I have. So if somebody

[0:01:02] Trustee Luckham: wants to bring forward a motion of those that are on the speaker's list, let's get it on the table.

[0:01:06] Trustee Luckham: Let's talk about it. I'm going to suggest we go at the most to the break, 10 o'clock. And if we

[0:01:12] Trustee Luckham: haven't got a conclusion by then, I think we need to continue on with some other business.

[0:01:17] Trustee Luckham: But, and at that point, I'd entertain motions to potentially defer other items that we haven't got to. But let's see how it goes. And unless somebody else has an immediate other suggestion or direction, I'm going to start with the speaker's list. Okay, David Mott, over to you.

[0:01:40] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:01:46] Trustee Luckham: No, this one doesn't affect your mic.

[0:01:48] Voice 22: Oh, thank you.

[0:01:49] Voice 22: Thank you. Right, continuing. First of all, I'm going to thank everybody for your patience because you're going to have to endure more remarks from me this morning. I've actually quite a, it will be a mixed thing. It won't come as a surprise to you that I've got a lot to say, but it's actually, if it's any consolation, it's the last I'm going to say about this topic today.

[0:02:12] Voice 22: today. As I mentioned yesterday, the purpose of this draft letter is to start a conversation.

[0:02:22] Voice 22: And if any of you have actually read the thing, the heart and soul of it is to start the process

[0:02:30] Voice 22: of moving us into a position that will allow us to achieve meaningful reconciliation.

[0:02:38] Voice 22: But let's reflect on what has been reported to us about the province's staff's response.

[0:02:46] Voice 22: If you boil it down, if you read Toby's summary of the meeting, the province is basically saying it's not prepared to do anything unless we provide them both with an in-depth diagnosis of what our problems are and a detailed treatment plan.

[0:03:06] Voice 22: Now, if we had a discrete, isolated issue, we might be able to do that.

[0:03:13] Voice 22: But that's not the situation we're in.

[0:03:15] Voice 22: Our profound difficulty, which has been reflected in the governance review, is our structure and legislation limits us at multiple levels.

[0:03:26] Voice 22: I'll go through a couple of points here.

[0:03:29] Voice 22: Above all, we do not have the jurisdiction to negotiate co-management with first agents, which means we have found ourselves through our engagement process in something, inadvertently, something of a bait and switch situation.

[0:03:45] Voice 22: situation, at least I think I believe as far as First Nations are concerned. Why do I say that?

[0:03:52] Voice 22: Well, for example, with the TPS process, but also the development of OCPs, we will talk to the

[0:03:59] Voice 22: relevant First Nations. We are agreeable and not in agreement and say pleasant things when they

[0:04:06] Voice 22: tell us what they need. We develop a trust policy statement full of things that reflect their needs

[0:04:12] Voice 22: and interests. Then we started looking at the trust policy statement and we discover we can't

[0:04:19] Voice 22: deliver those things. And it's not our fault. I mean, that's what the law is. So we just can't

[0:04:27] Voice 22: deliver it. So we're forced to backtrack. That's what we have done with the trust policy statement.

[0:04:34] Voice 22: Now, let's think about that. Let's try to exercise some imagination and think about what that looks

[0:04:41] Voice 22: like from the First Nations perspective. Do you think they really haven't seen that movie before?

[0:04:48] Voice 22: do we as an organization do we really want to find ourselves on that same game of talking

[0:05:01] Voice 22: through both sides of our mouths even though we don't want to that's what indigenous people have

[0:05:07] Voice 22: seen for centuries now we hired consultants or less term this organization hired consultants

[0:05:15] Voice 22: that tell us why we're not being effective now this business hired consultants

[0:05:21] Voice 22: has actually gone on itself for quite a while and this governance review and i can't remember the

[0:05:31] Voice 22: exact numbers but it's i think the third one that's been conducted over the past 20 years

[0:05:36] Voice 22: hiring like high-powered outside consultants to say look we're just not functional we don't have

[0:05:42] Voice 22: public confidence we have problems this isn't new to us it's not new to the last term it's a thing

[0:05:48] Voice 22: that's gone on, bear in mind, for decades. And we have proved utterly ineffectual on our own

[0:05:57] Voice 22: to do anything about it. You get one consultant's report, recommends a bunch of things, we don't act

[0:06:04] Voice 22: on it. Second one, same thing. Third one, we're trying really hard, but it's tough. Nothing seems

[0:06:11] Voice 22: to change. Why? Well, I'll tell you why. Because we as an organization do not have the institutional

[0:06:19] Voice 22: expertise that is necessary to get our hands around the structural limitations that hold us

[0:06:25] Voice 22: back. As I mentioned before, we don't have the jurisdiction to negotiate co-management. But more

[0:06:30] Voice 22: than that, even if we did have that jurisdiction, we don't have the policy direction or guidance

[0:06:37] Voice 22: from the province about how far we can or should go with that discretion. Another issue is Trust

[0:06:44] Voice 22: Trust Council does not have a true executive with statutory authority to set direction

[0:06:51] Voice 22: for Trust Council because no one's actually elected to represent the trust area as a whole.

[0:06:55] Voice 22: And the Act actually has no provision for true leadership positions anyhow.

[0:07:01] Voice 22: And yesterday, before we ended, I was touching on the democracy deficit that we have here.

[0:07:07] Voice 22: It's important for us to recognize that it is far bigger than Salt Springs underrepresentation.

[0:07:13] Voice 22: That's not actually the issue.

[0:07:14] Voice 22: The issue is that it's absurd that my area, Gambier, with the second lowest voting population of the trust area, somewhere around 450 people, has two trustees.

[0:07:29] Voice 22: That gives those 450 people effectively, through the representatives, the same voting power as islands that have double, triple, 10 times or 25 times the voting population of my area.

[0:07:49] Voice 22: What does that translate into?

[0:07:51] Voice 22: Well, if you go and do what I did, which is actually go and look at the numbers, you will see that the 14 trustees from the seven least populated local trust areas, and those local trust areas in combined will have something less than 20% of the total trust area population.

[0:08:09] Voice 22: population. Those 14 trustees, if acting in concert, have the power to determine all trust

[0:08:17] Voice 22: council decisions, including the trust policy statements that all local trust committees are

[0:08:23] Voice 22: bound to follow. Now, I'm kind of new to this game. I mean, I was elected two years ago.

[0:08:34] Voice 22: I can't get over it. Maybe you guys are used to it, but where I come from, that's an absolute

[0:08:42] Voice 22: affront to the very principle of democratic governance it's a disgrace we are unaccountable

[0:08:53] Voice 22: power one of the reasons nothing changes is that the voting population has no recourse at the ballot

[0:09:01] Voice 22: box to fire us our issues we there's no accountability here the trust council can do all

[0:09:07] Voice 22: sorts of crazy stuff but the population of the local of the trust area can't use its votes to

[0:09:16] Voice 22: to change that because of this terrible imbalance of misrepresentation by population.

[0:09:22] Voice 22: Now, that's not anybody's fault around this table. It's just the thing we've inherited.

[0:09:29] Voice 22: I emphasize this particular point to point out how incredibly difficult these challenges are

[0:09:35] Voice 22: that we're facing. When I'm talking about the trust council democracy deficit, what I'm talking

[0:09:41] Voice 22: about is a deficient governmental design. We don't have the expertise to wade into that stuff.

[0:09:47] Voice 22: that's a big deal there's layers to it there's constitutional layers there's operational stuff

[0:09:52] Voice 22: there's the direction the province wants to go rejigging something like that requires more than

[0:09:58] Voice 22: just the province being involved obviously because where we are now we need to have engagement with

[0:10:03] Voice 22: the first nations but also the community as a whole and that's what we asked for in the letter

[0:10:08] Voice 22: instead the le and so we're being incredibly responsible with this letter about recognizing

[0:10:14] Voice 22: Recognizing that we have limitations in terms of addressing these big issues, the response we get from the province is, no, no, no, no.

[0:10:24] Voice 22: You're supposed to tell the government how to fix these problems.

[0:10:28] Trustee Luckham: So, Joe, I'm seeing some concerns around the table about the length of time we're spending here.

[0:10:36] Voice 22: Well, you know what?

[0:10:38] Voice 22: I'm sorry that people have those concerns, but I do have to finish these remarks because I think this is incredibly important.

[0:10:44] Voice 22: And as I said before, these will be my last remarks on this point today.

[0:10:50] Trustee Luckham: I want to give you that opportunity, so I'm just going to ask you to...

[0:10:54] Trustee Luckham: Can you please just

[0:10:55] Voice 22: not interrupt and just let me finish?

[0:10:57] Trustee Luckham: Yeah,

[0:10:57] Voice 32: I'm responsible to counsel.

[0:11:05] Voice 26: Just let's just...

[0:11:06] Voice 26: We

[0:11:15] Voice 8: are in charge of council and striving and I think it was a great gift in the length

[0:11:20] Voice 8: of time that we were making.

[0:11:26] Voice 22: The government's telling us that we are supposed to tell them how...

[0:11:30] Trustee Luckham: Joe, are you going to tell us anything new that we haven't heard at this table?

[0:11:38] Voice 18: Well, you know, I want to call out an order.

[0:11:40] Voice 18: This is not right.

[0:11:41] Voice 18: Yes, there is.

[0:11:42] Trustee Luckham: This isn't right.

[0:11:43] Trustee Luckham: It's not.

[0:11:44] Trustee Luckham: I'm sorry.

[0:11:46] Trustee Luckham: Jamie, blurting out is also not appropriate.

[0:11:48] Trustee Luckham: I have you blurted out.

[0:11:50] Trustee Luckham: I have a point of order on the table and I'm trying to address that.

[0:11:59] Voice 22: And I

[0:11:59] Trustee Luckham: want to say,

[0:12:00] Voice 22: yes, I do have new things to say.

[0:12:02] Voice 22: If I could be given the chance to say them, may I say them?

[0:12:08] Voice 22: Council, can we

[0:12:10] Voice 26: allow

[0:12:11] Trustee Luckham: Jo to continue?

[0:12:15] Trustee Luckham: When the government tells us...

[0:12:18] Trustee Luckham: Five minutes is a suggestion.

[0:12:21] Trustee Luckham: Go for it.

[0:12:22] Voice 22: The government is telling us, is asking us to fix these problems

[0:12:34] Voice 22: when we're the body that conducts itself like this,

[0:12:40] Voice 22: when we can't even get our own act together.

[0:12:42] Voice 22: There are things within our power that we can do,

[0:12:46] Voice 22: and we screw up reliably every time that trust policy statement it's gone on for years it's

[0:12:55] Voice 22: within our power and we can't get our act together on that corporate planning vitally important

[0:12:59] Voice 22: everybody recognizes it we can't make it happen and the government's saying oh this really big

[0:13:05] Voice 22: legislative stuff yeah you guys come back with that come on can we ourselves recognize

[0:13:12] Voice 22: uh that we don't have it in us that we actually need the help that's why we have to write that

[0:13:17] Voice 22: letter. I implore you to read that letter. What it says is that here are the biggest areas where

[0:13:24] Voice 22: we need help. Let's talk about it. And this time, we insist in the letter, the First Nations and

[0:13:30] Voice 22: the trustee area absolutely must be at the table. And we've got a problem, apparently, with doing

[0:13:35] Voice 22: that. Read Trustee Elliott's notes. See what the ministry staff said. What exactly did the ministry

[0:13:47] Voice 22: staff mean when it warned that asking for a review might be a dangerous strategy? Be careful. You

[0:13:53] Voice 22: You might find out you're not driving the bus.

[0:13:57] Voice 22: What the hell does that mean?

[0:13:59] Voice 22: Well, it's pretty obvious.

[0:14:01] Voice 22: The provincial government that has wrapped itself in the good feeling of adopting UNDRIP is now trying to scare us that First Nations might get more out of a review than we expected or want to do.

[0:14:14] Voice 22: The hypocrisy from the staff on the province side is absolutely breathtaking.

[0:14:23] Voice 22: Can you wrap it up, Joe?

[0:14:27] Voice 22: Okay, I will wrap it up.

[0:14:29] Voice 22: You obviously have heard enough, but let me tell you something.

[0:14:31] Voice 22: The reason I feel so energetic about this,

[0:14:34] Voice 22: I grew up in a small northern town in the 1960s and 1970s.

[0:14:40] Voice 22: When I look back on it, there's a lot of shame.

[0:14:46] Voice 22: It wasn't much different than the Jim Crow South.

[0:14:49] Voice 22: Henry was good enough to play on the soccer team,

[0:14:53] Voice 22: but he never went to any of the parties.

[0:15:01] Voice 22: The de facto segregation between Indigenous people

[0:15:11] Voice 22: and everywhere else was a fact of life the worst of it was how we all just took it for granted

[0:15:25] Voice 22: it's just the way things work how many times do we have to tell first nations that the time for

[0:15:31] Voice 22: justice and redress is not now no we've got details to take care of in june we were moved

[0:15:37] Voice 22: by adam olson heard his wisdom accepted it then the bureaucrats whispered in a closed meeting and

[0:15:47] Voice 22: And somehow we've been hypnotized by the proximity to power and everything Adam said doesn't matter anymore.

[0:15:55] Voice 22: Well, you know what? Nothing has ever been achieved by being scared or timid.

[0:16:02] Voice 22: Let's not be afraid. There's nothing to be afraid about.

[0:16:06] Voice 22: If we send a letter and nothing happens, we're not any worse off than we are now.

[0:16:12] Voice 22: Let's do the right thing. Let's leave.

[0:16:15] Voice 22: Thank you, Joe.

[0:16:16] Trustee Luckham: Joe, next speaker.

[0:16:19] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to ask all of you to keep your remarks new to the point.

[0:16:27] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Harris.

[0:16:29] Voice 18: Thank you.

[0:16:29] Voice 18: I want to apologize to the chair for blurting out there, but I felt very strongly that Joe was being interrupted unfairly.

[0:16:37] Voice 18: But I apologize, and maybe I read it wrong because I'm sitting here on Zoom.

[0:16:41] Voice 18: Thank you, Jim.

[0:16:41] Voice 18: Um, anyways, um, you know, one of the things I want to address is, um, some of the remarks

[0:16:47] Voice 18: about Salt Spring Island and the referendums that have been held in the past.

[0:16:51] Voice 18: Um, one of the references by one of the trustees was something about Salt Spring was afraid

[0:16:55] Voice 18: of the cost of the roads.

[0:16:56] Voice 18: Well, you know, that's to, to, to write it off like that is, is truly unfair and basically

[0:17:02] Voice 18: misinformation.

[0:17:04] Voice 18: Um, there's so many factors.

[0:17:06] Voice 18: And again, there was a non-governmental organization that had a quite a well-funded campaign that pushed misinformation, as we have seen, you know, from some of the one of the first delegations of the Islands Trust this term, we addressed a bunch of misinformation.

[0:17:25] Voice 18: information these things happen um one of the other um comments was about uh there was

[0:17:30] Voice 18: salt spring was given the chance to have four trustees and four representatives um well people

[0:17:38] Voice 18: weren't happy about that because only two were going to be able to vote in that instance and

[0:17:44] Voice 18: in order to have the four vote it was going to have to open up legislation and that's what this

[0:17:48] Voice 18: letter is asking um to have done we need to have legislation opened up to to have extra votes on

[0:17:54] Voice 18: on salt spring island um so again the the um the island didn't vote for that um you know in favor

[0:18:03] Voice 18: of that referendum at that time one of the other driving factors of salt spring not wanting to have

[0:18:08] Voice 18: the municipality um you know within that referendum or one of the referendums was that

[0:18:15] Voice 18: they didn't want lots of people didn't want to have three layers of government where we'd have

[0:18:19] Voice 18: have the crd um a municipal level and the island's trust like it talk about a gong show um i'm sure

[0:18:27] Voice 18: it would be different if if there were um you know if again the island's trust wasn't to be

[0:18:32] Voice 18: included in the municipality um so what i can see this letter

[0:18:36] Voice 18: james interrupted

[0:18:39] Voice 18: oh

[0:18:40] Trustee Luckham: i'm i don't want

[0:18:41] Trustee Luckham: to interrupt you but i appreciate you wanting to clarify the issues around salt spring island

[0:18:48] Trustee Luckham: on that's great well it

[0:18:50] Voice 18: pertains to this letter it's it it's because we have comments about why

[0:18:53] Voice 18: they don't want to send the letter but anyways so i'm done with that i'm done with that part um

[0:18:59] Trustee Luckham: jamie please so i interrupted right at the wrong moment because you got to exactly where i want you

[0:19:05] Trustee Luckham: to get to let's talk about the letter that's what's on the table and i'm going to ask everybody

[0:19:10] Trustee Luckham: in the room let's talk about the letter which is what's on the table okay

[0:19:15] Voice 18: here yesterday people

[0:19:17] Voice 18: people were speaking of this stuff and you didn't interrupt them they were talking about the

[0:19:22] Voice 18: referendums on so ultimately there's no interruptions i'm just addressing and commenting on those

[0:19:27] Voice 18: comments so why weren't they interrupted yesterday anyways um so this is exactly about

[0:19:35] Voice 18: the undemocratic representation which no people are afraid of that those terms or that term and

[0:19:43] Voice 18: And it's also about reconciliation to be done, you know, to a whole new degree.

[0:19:52] Voice 18: So that's what this letter is about.

[0:19:55] Voice 18: It's those two things is what it mainly is.

[0:19:59] Voice 18: So as I've said at the beginning of the term, I felt over the years that this is my opinion and what I've seen, you know, prior to being elected.

[0:20:10] Voice 18: i'd felt that the islands trust had used first nations disingenuously to further an

[0:20:16] Voice 18: eco-radical agenda people have heard me say that time and time again it's not not new news

[0:20:22] Voice 18: here's our chance to prove that statement wrong sending this letter as was stated if we send this

[0:20:30] Voice 18: now this is just the beginning there's nothing to be afraid of to think we're going to fine-tune it

[0:20:34] Voice 18: we got 26 trustees we know what that's like i was trying to fine-tune anything that's

[0:20:38] Voice 18: That doesn't happen in any, you know, expedient way.

[0:20:44] Voice 18: If we start fine tuning and messing around with this, a letter, you know, my prediction is it won't be sent until the end of the term or sent at all.

[0:20:51] Voice 18: So to me, a vote against sending these letters today is a vote against reconciliation and a vote against democracy.

[0:21:00] Voice 18: It's plain and simple. I don't see it any other way. Thank you.

[0:21:04] Trustee Luckham: Thank you,

[0:21:05] Voice 18: Jamie. Trustee Patrick.

[0:21:08] Voice 18: Patrick?

[0:21:21] Trustee Patrick: The responsibility to review its own act belongs to the province. And that's motion

[0:21:28] Trustee Patrick: number one. We don't have one thing on the table here. We have multiple things. So the first

[0:21:33] Trustee Patrick: motion is that we ask, that we're asking the province to do a review. It has only conducted

[0:21:41] Trustee Patrick: one review of the Islands Trust since it was formed, and that was in 1987. It instituted that

[0:21:50] Trustee Patrick: that review. And that review resulted in the last significant changes to the act. So this belongs

[0:22:00] Trustee Patrick: to the province. The second piece is the how we communicate this. All the second motion does is

[0:22:08] Trustee Patrick: outline some potential scope. Potential. Words right there. Just potential suggestions.

[0:22:14] Trustee Patrick: It doesn't limit. It doesn't do any of that. So I really see this as two issues. I think we've

[0:22:20] Trustee Patrick: got ourselves in knots i think we have general good good we can have a vote on that in a moment

[0:22:26] Trustee Patrick: here but uh that we think the province should be asked to do a review the second piece is how do

[0:22:32] Trustee Patrick: we communicate that and i think we can split that up and we have time to communicate that so that

[0:22:39] Trustee Patrick: would be my suggestion um because i think it's important and it's not you know we've heard all

[0:22:45] Trustee Patrick: all these reasons that are out there.

[0:22:47] Trustee Patrick: We have tried to do it ourselves.

[0:22:49] Trustee Patrick: We have the 2003 governance review

[0:22:54] Trustee Patrick: where they did tackle a number of issues.

[0:22:57] Trustee Patrick: We also have in 2017,

[0:23:00] Trustee Patrick: the council then even asked

[0:23:03] Trustee Patrick: that we talk to the province

[0:23:05] Trustee Patrick: about governance and operational changes

[0:23:07] Trustee Patrick: to improve the delivery and integration

[0:23:09] Trustee Patrick: of all types of services.

[0:23:11] Trustee Patrick: Nothing happened from that.

[0:23:12] Trustee Patrick: So it's getting the province back involved

[0:23:15] Trustee Patrick: to do a review. I think it's important. And if you want me, I'll put that motion on the table,

[0:23:20] Trustee Patrick: and we can just talk about the review. And then we can split the conversation of how do we

[0:23:24] Trustee Patrick: communicate that. Am I getting fear around the table? Do we want to vote on, do we want to ask

[0:23:29] Trustee Patrick: them for a review? I'm seeing nods.

[0:23:31] Trustee Luckham: You have the microphone. All

[0:23:32] Trustee Patrick: right, I'll make that motion. Then

[0:23:33] Trustee Patrick: I move that Trust Council request the Lieutenant Governor in Council for the Province of British

[0:23:39] Trustee Patrick: Columbia to conduct a review of the Islands Trust mandate, governance, and structure.

[0:23:48] Trustee Luckham: Advice is that that should be the minister, not the lieutenant governor and council.

[0:23:56] Trustee Patrick: Sorry.

[0:23:58] Trustee Patrick: The original was using the 8.2 of the Act that we have the authority to make that recommendation to the lieutenant governor and council.

[0:24:08] Voice 22: Furthermore, the legislation does not refer at Section 8, which is the request for review section that gives us the avenue to do that.

[0:24:18] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[0:24:18] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[0:24:19] Voice 22: Let's proceed to the left-handed governor, not in council, not the minister.

[0:24:25] Voice 22: Let's

[0:24:25] Trustee Luckham: proceed. Do I have a seconder for the motion? Susan Yates, thank you.

[0:24:32] Trustee Luckham: You wish to speak to the motion? I believe we've had enough discussion, or I have.

[0:24:38] Trustee Luckham: Who wishes to speak to the motion? I see Getty, Evans, Elliott. Go ahead.

[0:24:49] Voice 36: The discussion so far, what I've heard is that what we're really asking for is an opportunity to sit down with ministry staff and to try and sort out some of these problems.

[0:25:01] Voice 36: So that's quite different from asking for a full-scale review.

[0:25:11] Voice 25: Trustee Evans.

[0:25:15] Trustee Evans: So is that going to result, and I'm just going to quickly ask the question before I can put my best of my comments in, is that going to result in a new letter being drafted?

[0:25:28] Trustee Evans: yeah it's your emotion

[0:25:29] Trustee Patrick: it's your emotion i need to my idea was the next conversation would be the

[0:25:34] Trustee Patrick: how to communicate that right so

[0:25:38] Trustee Evans: not necessarily a letter then okay um so i'm a i'm a little

[0:25:50] Trustee Evans: confused now as to what we're doing um so if we are going to write a letter it needs to be

[0:25:58] Trustee Evans: explicit it cannot be written like this letter is i've read this and read this and read this

[0:26:03] Trustee Evans: um like that the the letter that we were just discussing the one that we've got in here

[0:26:08] Trustee Evans: the only paragraphs that actually say something are the last two and if we're going to ask for

[0:26:14] Trustee Evans: a review and we're going to write a new letter so you're looking confused now because i'm confused

[0:26:23] Trustee Evans: too i'm

[0:26:25] Trustee Patrick: saying split this in two do we wish to ask the province to do a review that's question

[0:26:31] Trustee Patrick: number one the next question which is the second motion in the staff report would be the how

[0:26:36] Trustee Patrick: Wow. So that would be the communications piece. So the first question is, do we wish to ask for a review?

[0:26:43] Trustee Evans: OK, that's why I was confused. So now it's just a vote on do we want to review?

[0:26:48] Trustee Evans: Got it. OK. Thank you for the clarity.

[0:26:52] Voice 25: Hey, Evan, who's to speak to us? OK. Trustee Elliot.

[0:27:00] Trustee Elliott: So thank you, counsel, for all the good thoughts. And I really do appreciate the diversity of opinions around the table.

[0:27:06] Trustee Elliott: I just want to bring our attention back to not the reason our form of government was created, but the way in which it was intended to act, which is in cooperation with.

[0:27:23] Trustee Elliott: If we make this ask alone, without hearing specifically from First Nations, from Bowen Island Municipality, from all the other agencies and the province with whom we are in partnership to do this work, then I think we will make a rash ask and we might not get another chance.

[0:27:52] Trustee Elliott: That is what we risk. Because we've had advice from the people who had received this letter about how to strategize it effectively. And I've put that to you as firmly and as clearly as possible.

[0:28:09] Voice 28: the

[0:28:09] Trustee Elliott: tone in that room was not one of fear or pushing off it was saying they were saying their

[0:28:18] Trustee Elliott: approach to legislative reform is from the bottom up working with communities as they are ready

[0:28:28] Trustee Elliott: and in partnerships with first nations and when you have a specific ask and you come together

[0:28:35] Trustee Elliott: in partnership with the agencies that we are bound to work with then we're going

[0:28:43] Trustee Elliott: to have a successful request so I cannot support this motion at this time I agree

[0:28:52] Trustee Elliott: we need help I actually think it's more internally getting some consensus

[0:29:02] Trustee Elliott: setting priorities and moving forward together and that's work that the

[0:29:07] Trustee Elliott: province is not going to help us do we have to do that work and it's hard and we need to decide

[0:29:15] Trustee Elliott: how to move forward in cooperation with nations other agencies and the province and make that ask

[0:29:24] Trustee Elliott: respectful because that's how you work together it's the same way as working with first nations

[0:29:30] Trustee Elliott: you treat them as equals not imposing your will and your vision for how it's going to be and this

[0:29:38] Trustee Elliott: is what i see that as we need help it's all about us and i want to do this work together this is not

[0:29:48] Trustee Elliott: a light thing and i don't think it's ready so i cannot support the motion at this time trustee

[0:29:58] Voice 20: Take care, everyone.

[0:29:59] Voice 20: Take care.

[0:30:01] Voice 20: um

[0:30:03] Voice 5: i my understanding of this letter historically was because of exactly the conversation

[0:30:15] Voice 5: that we've been having for the last bit of the meeting yesterday and and how dysfunctional

[0:30:23] Voice 5: our conversation is this morning uh as far as opinions are concerned um we don't have the

[0:30:33] Voice 5: ability to govern at all i don't believe i don't believe that we actually are sitting in a position

[0:30:41] Voice 5: where we can effectively make any sort of positive move for our communities we can sit in this room

[0:30:51] Voice 5: we can talk about it but at the end of the day i'm trying to think of a way to say this without

[0:31:02] Voice 5: out swearing about it but these conversations that we're having get so heavenly minded that

[0:31:13] Voice 5: they're no earthly good we start talking about things that have we don't have the ability to

[0:31:21] Voice 5: even control right now and we're not get we're not getting we're not getting anywhere we're not

[0:31:29] Voice 5: doing anything so i would support this motion because i feel like we have to get a review

[0:31:36] Voice 5: view of what it is that we're even here doing on a day-to-day basis and a quarterly basis and

[0:31:44] Voice 5: like we're not accomplishing anything if we don't start making some moves and start moving forward

[0:31:52] Voice 5: we don't even have the ability to deal with first nations right now that that in itself is a huge

[0:31:59] Voice 5: issue. We need the province to step in and redirect what this dog's breakfast has become

[0:32:08] Voice 5: that they originally created and stopped supporting years ago. So I am in support of

[0:32:16] Voice 5: moving this motion forward.

[0:32:21] Trustee Luckham: Chair Luckham. Yeah, thank you. Just interrupting the speaker's list.

[0:32:25] Trustee Luckham: Just really want to focus on, we're not talking about any specific letter at this point. Let's

[0:32:30] Trustee Luckham: set that conversation aside we're talking about requesting a review yes or no and let's keep going

[0:32:40] Trustee Luckham: on the conversation let's try and be focused because otherwise we're going to be here all day

[0:32:43] Trustee Luckham: on this topic and if that's what you want to do then we can certainly do that but that has

[0:32:48] Trustee Luckham: consequences back to the speakers list

[0:32:51] Voice 34: justy borflick uh thank you chair that was going to be

[0:32:56] Voice 34: the bulk of my comment as well was we're just talking about making the request in the first

[0:33:02] Voice 34: place um and yes there's there's nuance to how that gets done um and and you know that that's

[0:33:13] Voice 34: that's obviously a big debate and that there will be that discussion i'm sure possibly even shortly

[0:33:19] Voice 34: i i am in support of this motion um and i i want to just respond a little bit with to to uh trustee

[0:33:27] Voice 34: elliot who's you know i insight and and work on this i really respect and i has a lot of weight

[0:33:34] Voice 34: for me um and i think that it the the the heart of this request making this request and and i agree

[0:33:43] Voice 34: like i in an ideal world we would get our poop in a group and then we would bring something good

[0:33:48] Voice 34: forward and and be working you know in in that sort of concert or it would start in that way

[0:33:55] Voice 34: But I actually think that this process and this request does not preclude that working in concert and working respectfully with other groups.

[0:34:06] Voice 34: I would hope that the province would apply that such a lens as well.

[0:34:10] Voice 34: And I don't think that we need to come forward in a way that says, hey, we're a mess, fix us.

[0:34:18] Voice 34: I would hope that we would be a part of that process.

[0:34:22] Voice 34: We are the people who are best acquainted with our particular situation. We're going to be a part of, hopefully, how that moves forward. I think it's really important that we start this conversation. As Trustee Bernardo was saying, this is not going to be the end of this. It's not going to happen overnight. Doing this right now and asking this question, getting this started, and not sitting on it for another two years is not going to mean that the process happens overnight. It's still going to take us some time.

[0:34:51] Voice 26: thank

[0:34:52] Voice 34: you and i i appreciate that this has really been this is a frustrating conversation for some

[0:34:57] Voice 34: but i i think this is important and i i think we can do it we can do it you guys trust you stanford

[0:35:05] Voice 25: thank

[0:35:13] Trustee Stamford: you um i am in favor of this motion as it stands i'd like to have further conversation

[0:35:21] Trustee Stamford: about the letter um this conversation uh from yesterday and today is extremely valuable

[0:35:28] Trustee Stamford: um it gets a lot of the things that we kind of talk about in little circles out together there's

[0:35:36] Trustee Stamford: a lot of good points i know it's frustrating but it is worth the time and effort to speak to this

[0:35:42] Trustee Stamford: one of the things that i'm thinking of and and being part of the the conversations with the um

[0:35:50] Trustee Stamford: provincial staff provincial staff weren't trying to snow anybody they were just saying if you there

[0:35:56] Trustee Stamford: there's a lot of asks to the government. They're big asks. They've got 4 million people

[0:36:03] Trustee Stamford: with very serious issues, a lot of the issues we share. So number one, how do we

[0:36:13] Trustee Stamford: provide our ask in a way that is in concert with recognizing those similar issues?

[0:36:21] Trustee Stamford: and also what is different about us so what is why should this go to the top of the pile

[0:36:28] Trustee Stamford: why should the islands trust go ahead of the other issues that other local government governments are

[0:36:34] Trustee Stamford: seeing because the capacity is limited and that is what i understood they've got lots of asks

[0:36:42] Trustee Stamford: out there why is this more important and one of them is for me is is how other people have stated

[0:36:51] Trustee Stamford: how do we engage respectfully and fruitfully with 27 indigenous governments that makes us

[0:37:03] Trustee Stamford: somewhat different that makes things a bit difficult but that is what we're doing with

[0:37:10] Trustee Stamford: the letter and with this ask we're saying help us just like everybody else is in the same position

[0:37:15] Trustee Stamford: we don't have the ability to engage in the way that is being requested of us and in terms of

[0:37:25] Trustee Stamford: looking for democracy the alternative to the honest trust is zero representation

[0:37:32] Trustee Stamford: there is things we can do with support from the provincial government to make our system more

[0:37:39] Trustee Stamford: Yes, we need the help. But there are many, many populations out there that have less representation than those of us in the local trust committees. We get that extra democratic representation. As skewed as it is, I want to fix that. But the alternative is zero.

[0:38:02] Trustee Stamford: row. And so you're, you know, I want people to think about the things, some things are working

[0:38:10] Trustee Stamford: in the trust, and the local trust committees can still do good work. If we put our minds to it.

[0:38:17] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[0:38:18] Trustee Luckham: So, Kate, thank you. I know it's very tempting to want to say a lot of things that are

[0:38:24] Trustee Luckham: all bottled up in all of us. Me too. We need to focus on the question on the table, send the

[0:38:29] Trustee Luckham: letter or not the content of the sorry make a request you see make a request of the province

[0:38:37] Trustee Luckham: we can discuss the how to and put in the next in another motion send them send the request or not

[0:38:46] Voice 26: yes

[0:38:58] Voice 35: hey i'm just trying to think here if i'm actually speaking to this specific motion or

[0:39:03] Voice 35: just generally but i'm going to be very brief so hopefully that works um i just want to say that

[0:39:08] Voice 35: do we want this to be a political move or do we want this to be an effective move like it's all

[0:39:13] Voice 35: good to be political but at the same time it's we really really need some reform and review so

[0:39:20] Voice 35: there's that um right now the province is super focused on the election and they're going to be

[0:39:24] Voice 35: that doing that until october 19th i believe i believe we really should be sending this letter

[0:39:30] Voice 35: but i am with um trustee elliott that we need to make sure we're actually sending a well-thought

[0:39:37] Voice 35: out in concrete ask we need if it's vague there's wiggle room let's just do this once and do this

[0:39:42] Voice 35: right thank

[0:39:44] Voice 25: you trustee bowman i'm

[0:39:50] Voice 40: in favor of this i don't think it's disrespectful and i do

[0:39:55] Voice 40: think that first nations have indicated what they want and we are recognizing that we can't deliver

[0:40:02] Voice 40: it in what we've done to the trust policy statement so to say that we need further

[0:40:09] Voice 40: further engagement around all of this these matters is you know it's it's not useful we've

[0:40:16] Voice 40: had they've had you know we've had eight months of engagement on and the trust policy statement

[0:40:21] Voice 40: which is you know one of our things that we can't deliver so I really am in favor of asking for a

[0:40:29] Voice 40: review and I think the you know the people who've spoken in support of it have been incredibly

[0:40:36] Voice 40: eloquent and really laid out what we're trying to fix. So, thank you.

[0:40:43] Voice 25: Trustee Yates.

[0:40:48] Voice 3: I'm also in favor of the motion to have the Provincial Review. I

[0:40:54] Voice 3: would like to thank Trustee Campbell, Trustee Borthwick and a number of others

[0:40:58] Voice 3: for their very clear reasons why we need to get this done. As Trustee Patrick

[0:41:04] Voice 3: pointed out, the last one was done in 1987. I know because I have it right here

[0:41:09] Voice 3: in front of me there is one good thing about being around for a long time and the frustrations were

[0:41:15] Voice 3: similar but guess what some of them were solved so i agree absolutely we need this review and the

[0:41:22] Voice 3: points a through f under number two here are exactly what we need to be done it is not

[0:41:29] Voice 3: disrespectful we are asking for help with the declaration on the right to the indigenous people

[0:41:35] Voice 3: we know we need help the province will help us with that um and lastly uh what was i gonna say

[0:41:45] Voice 3: oh lastly um just to say echo what trustee laroni said we should wait until after the election and

[0:41:52] Voice 3: that's good advice

[0:41:53] Voice 3: thank

[0:41:56] Voice 13: you

[0:42:02] Voice 37: uh i am not in favor of this motion uh but i am in favor of a provincial review

[0:42:08] Voice 37: If we knew what we were asking them, you know, under, you know,

[0:42:13] Voice 37: in what way we want to review them, we want them to review it and what kinds of things we need out of the review.

[0:42:22] Voice 37: And what's, you know, our own review, basically, and saying what's not working.

[0:42:26] Voice 37: And I am positively for democracy and reconciliation.

[0:42:30] Voice 37: So I don't want it to be seen or understood by anybody that my vote against this motion means that.

[0:42:39] Voice 37: because it's not connected, in my view.

[0:42:42] Voice 37: Thank you.

[0:42:44] Voice 25: So I'm

[0:42:48] Trustee Evans: also in favour of getting a review done

[0:42:53] Trustee Evans: and along with Trustee Elliott and a few others,

[0:42:55] Trustee Evans: waiting until after the election.

[0:42:57] Trustee Evans: That was the advice of staff and our staff and provincial staff.

[0:43:02] Trustee Evans: So all the parties involved saying, wait until after.

[0:43:06] Trustee Evans: um i am going to like i don't so that what we're asking here is basically saying should we should

[0:43:17] Trustee Evans: we go ahead and do this but i'm kind of looking at this from a slightly different point of view

[0:43:20] Trustee Evans: based on what trustee bernardo was talking about asking for an invitation to sit down and have a

[0:43:27] Trustee Evans: discussion about all of these issues so which so should we say something like uh that we're

[0:43:33] Trustee Evans: We're requesting the lieutenant governor and council in the province of British Columbia to formally request a meeting to discuss the approach to conduct a review of the Islands Trust.

[0:43:44] Trustee Evans: Would that, because then if we can sit around a table together and hash it out versus us trying to formalize a letter that we just aren't able to land right now, is that something that could be doable?

[0:44:01] Trustee Evans: is is sort of my question because the elements that were in the previous letter the elements are

[0:44:09] Trustee Evans: good the delivery is poor so that's that's sort of my concern so i'm just going to kind of throw

[0:44:19] Trustee Evans: that out there i'm not going to make an amendment right now but are we asking for a discussion from

[0:44:24] Trustee Evans: this person to sit down and talk about it and how to get it done effectively or are we just going to

[0:44:30] Trustee Evans: to bulldoze ahead so

[0:44:32] Trustee Luckham: i'm just going to say i don't think anything ever happens without a discussion

[0:44:35] Trustee Luckham: with the with staff to staff once we make some kind of request so you you're absolutely right

[0:44:42] Trustee Luckham: that would be my expectation of how that would unfold because we do it just need what we're

[0:44:49] Trustee Luckham: trying to do here is just get this out let's talk about the content in what's potentially a second

[0:44:55] Trustee Luckham: in motion um i think that's trustee patrick's intent that's uh i'm inclined to want to call

[0:45:02] Trustee Luckham: the vote actually but we only have one more speaker well

[0:45:08] Voice 26: actually

[0:45:11] Trustee Luckham: i'm not going to disrupt

[0:45:12] Trustee Luckham: their speak we have a speaker's list trustee grant i think is next on it fast and grant and

[0:45:18] Trustee Luckham: then you we just need to respect the process i'm going to give you the microphone before we vote

[0:45:27] Voice 25: so we have trustee fast trustee scott and we're finishing with trustee patrick at this point

[0:45:32] Voice 25: So trustee, but Mary Baldwin can get it. So, all right, trustee Fast.

[0:45:40] Voice 15: Thank you, Chair. I'm mostly in agreement with others who've spoken saying not yet.

[0:45:50] Voice 15: I don't have a problem with asking the province to do a review after the election. And after

[0:45:58] Voice 15: After we have, or staff have, consulted with Bowen Island Municipality, I just mentioned that because they're at a bit of a distance.

[0:46:10] Voice 15: They see the islands currently right now.

[0:46:12] Voice 15: My impression is that Bowen Islanders see the Islands Trust as working really well.

[0:46:17] Voice 15: We just went through a process about large development and camping, and Islands Trust came in to support Bowen Island Municipality.

[0:46:26] Voice 15: It's a little different, a little distant. I would not like to have surprises.

[0:46:32] Voice 15: And as per our protocol agreement between Islands Trust and Bowen Island Municipality, I think it would be stronger if we could work together.

[0:46:43] Voice 15: Thank you.

[0:46:45] Voice 25: Jesse Scott.

[0:46:49] Voice 39: Thank you. I just see this as starting a process. It's very simple.

[0:46:55] Voice 39: Yes. Sue Ellen Hornby Island is further away than Bowen Island.

[0:47:00] Voice 39: So the complexity of going to other organizations, I understand.

[0:47:04] Voice 39: I think that will come out of the process. So I think all we need to do is send the letter in to start the process.

[0:47:11] Voice 39: Thank you.

[0:47:14] Voice 25: So, Trustee Bowen's question.

[0:47:17] Voice 25: Well, we were going to end with you, if that's OK.

[0:47:21] Voice 25: i

[0:47:23] Voice 40: i just wanted it to be really really really really clear what the motion is because the

[0:47:29] Voice 40: discussion has gone around timing and the letter content and we just need to revisit what the

[0:47:35] Trustee Luckham: motion is on the screen if it's not clear then it needs to be rewritten trustee

[0:47:42] Voice 25: patrick to conclude

[0:47:43] Voice 25: the discussion thank

[0:47:46] Trustee Patrick: you everyone wonderful discussion yeah this is about asking the

[0:47:50] Trustee Patrick: province do a review for them to do reviews this is the beginning it's their review i have every

[0:47:56] Trustee Patrick: expectation lots of conversations would come out of this this would have to be designed planned

[0:48:01] Trustee Patrick: all of that um this is this is 2024 not 1973 i think the province everyone knows that so i think

[0:48:10] Trustee Patrick: it would be a properly scoped and thought out review for today's time why we're doing the motion

[0:48:17] Trustee Patrick: motion today. Priorities get established at the beginning of a term. Now's the time to make this

[0:48:23] Trustee Patrick: request. So thank you. We have this before us and I guess it's let the chair call.

[0:48:31] Trustee Luckham: Are we ready for

[0:48:32] Trustee Luckham: the vote? All those in favor of the motion that's up on your screen. Keep your hands up.

[0:48:45] Voice 7: 15 in the

[0:48:47] Voice 7: room and seven online.

[0:48:49] Trustee Luckham: Lower your hands. Please

[0:48:52] Trustee Luckham: raise your hands if you're opposed.

[0:48:57] Voice 7: one two in the room and one in line so three opposed so

[0:49:00] Trustee Luckham: that carries thank you very much

[0:49:02] Trustee Luckham: council uh i'm going to afford the opportunity to trustee patrick to follow up with another motion

[0:49:09] Trustee Luckham: here or does somebody else got another motion with respect to you i think this is your thought

[0:49:15] Trustee Luckham: process trustee patrick go ahead well

[0:49:20] Trustee Patrick: one option is we just look to the third motion that's here

[0:49:23] Trustee Patrick: um is the language in there appropriate um about well it says informing the public so let me just

[0:49:32] Trustee Patrick: look at that for a second but there is a third motion

[0:49:33] Trustee Luckham: so i'm just going to pause for a moment

[0:49:36] Trustee Luckham: i think in the room there's certainly i heard uh none opposed but i certainly heard those in favor

[0:49:42] Trustee Luckham: of conducting this not in advance of the next election so it might just end before that

[0:49:48] Trustee Luckham: that statement but julia mobs i have noticed is at the podium and i think that is an indication

[0:49:55] Trustee Luckham: that they has she has something to offer or share at this point and i want to give you that

[0:50:00] Trustee Luckham: opportunity to think that through and i want to give the opportunity for uh ceo mobs to address

[0:50:06] Trustee Luckham: counsel so

[0:50:08] Voice 10: i was in a side conversation so i actually missed the lead-in to what you're asking

[0:50:14] Voice 10: me here you

[0:50:15] Trustee Luckham: happen to be standing at the podium and um that's not the most comfortable place to

[0:50:19] Trustee Luckham: be i'm sure so i'm i'm guessing that you have a remark that you would like to make uh with council

[0:50:26] Trustee Luckham: on possibly the topic at hand or maybe there's something else i don't know

[0:50:31] Voice 10: so i stand here so

[0:50:33] Voice 10: that i can offer my support to trustees as part of your discussion there has been no request of staff

[0:50:38] Voice 10: for advice during this discussion i certainly have thoughts to offer if there's interest well thank

[0:50:45] Trustee Luckham: you i appreciate that visible sign um i just would want to make sure that i wasn't missing some

[0:50:51] Trustee Luckham: subtlety thank you yeah

[0:50:54] Voice 26: are there

[0:50:55] Trustee Luckham: any questions for the ceo

[0:50:56] Voice 26: public health leftist

[0:51:08] Trustee Luckham: christina evans has a question for the ceo not

[0:51:12] Trustee Evans: so much a question but you said that you have advice

[0:51:14] Trustee Evans: to offer. Can you give us your thoughts and opinions?

[0:51:20] Trustee Evans: Thank you for asking.

[0:51:22] Voice 10: I mean, the motion's been put on the floor. It's been moved, seconded, and voted

[0:51:27] Voice 10: on, so my thoughts and opinions may not advance much here.

[0:51:31] Voice 10: This request, of course, it's very similar to

[0:51:35] Voice 10: what was being talked about yesterday. It is one of the

[0:51:39] Voice 10: resolutions that was presented. It doesn't speak to a specific letter.

[0:51:42] Voice 10: Next step would be to think about what does sending this request for review look like?

[0:51:49] Voice 10: So we would still need to be talking about the content of the letter.

[0:51:53] Voice 10: There's been a lot of comments around the table today that of paramount importance is getting First Nations voices to the table.

[0:52:00] Voice 10: The original draft letter did not make it clear that that was top priority.

[0:52:04] Voice 10: The provinces said to us, be specific in your asks and prioritize.

[0:52:08] Voice 10: If that's the top priority, name that, be specific about that. We could be requesting that the province convene a meeting with themselves, Bowen Island Municipal Council and First Nations, if we wanted to have a conversation around what a review of the Islands Trust Act might look like.

[0:52:27] Voice 10: I'm hearing that that's the intent of this request is to start a dialogue.

[0:52:32] Voice 10: Asking for a meeting is a specific request.

[0:52:35] Voice 10: We also need to remember that the minister and ministry staff are in Victoria.

[0:52:38] Voice 10: It's pretty easy for us to request meetings outside of conventions like UBCM.

[0:52:44] Voice 10: We don't traditionally take advantage of that.

[0:52:47] Voice 10: There's opportunity for us to do that if we really want to have strong dialogue with provincial staff and perhaps with the minister as well.

[0:52:54] Voice 10: off. So great conversation, great debate. It's good to hear all perspectives. We'll see where

[0:53:02] Voice 10: this goes.

[0:53:05] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Patrick, are you ready?

[0:53:14] Trustee Patrick: I'm just going to talk out loud. So I'll look for

[0:53:16] Trustee Patrick: nods around the room. If we were to kind of change and say that trust counsel requests the executive

[0:53:21] Trustee Patrick: committee, because I think that just implies they're going to work with staff, but we can say

[0:53:31] Trustee Patrick: with staff but to uh that uh trust council requests the executive committee to develop

[0:53:36] Trustee Patrick: a communication strategy uh for the request of a review something of that nature it's pretty

[0:53:46] Trustee Patrick: open but it turns it over to the executive committee is that generally what would be okay

[0:53:51] Trustee Patrick: for now um

[0:53:54] Trustee Luckham: let's see i'm going to go to trustee evans is the almost visible hand in the air here

[0:54:02] Trustee Luckham: I'm

[0:54:04] Trustee Evans: going to say that that's putting the cart before the horse, getting a communication strategy for the review out to the public before we've even formulated a communication strategy.

[0:54:15] Trustee Evans: Regardless, my preference in this letter for the request would be to include B, the clarification of the mandate, F, funding mechanisms, along with examples or suggestions of how we, what exactly are we asking them?

[0:54:39] Trustee Evans: like we need to we need to give them solutions not continue to say the bull's in your court

[0:54:45] Trustee Evans: um they've they've asked us to be very specific um so like and and start in in order of priorities so

[0:54:55] Trustee Evans: is the is the object the the priority is first nations cooperation

[0:55:01] Trustee Evans: priority and if we're asking them how do we how do we establish um um sorry

[0:55:10] Trustee Evans: Oh, so how do we establish creating this, getting them to the table?

[0:55:15] Trustee Evans: If those are the questions, we have to be super clear in here.

[0:55:19] Trustee Evans: This letter is not clear the way that it was previously written.

[0:55:25] Trustee Evans: Sorry, I've got a number of different notes in here.

[0:55:34] Trustee Evans: Yeah, so the governance pieces were just, I didn't understand them.

[0:55:41] Trustee Evans: I'm going to stop speaking.

[0:55:43] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[0:55:43] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. Julia, you had some remark to assist us in this conversation?

[0:55:48] Voice 10: Yeah, just a brief comment. In relation to a communication strategy to approach the province,

[0:55:54] Voice 10: that's a letter. That's a conversation. That's a request. There's no sort of communication strategy

[0:56:00] Voice 10: that's required there. And I'll look to Director of Trust Area Services to correct me if I'm

[0:56:06] Voice 10: offside there.

[0:56:11] Voice 9: Well, it depends. If it's around the communication to the province,

[0:56:14] Voice 9: it's around the key messaging that would be in the letter if you're thinking the broader public

[0:56:18] Voice 9: that would be a different undertaking so there's you've got different audiences happening so you

[0:56:22] Voice 9: would need to be clear with staff or the executive committee what you're asking for exactly if it's

[0:56:27] Voice 9: to the broader public again it's going to reflect likely the content of the letter yeah

[0:56:34] Voice 10: so i i had

[0:56:35] Voice 10: heard that the question was specifically around a communication strategy to the province um

[0:56:40] Voice 10: which is is the letter essentially um the resolution as it's crafted is identical to

[0:56:46] Voice 10: to what was in the letter, it still raises the question of, you know, it's not specific.

[0:56:50] Voice 10: The province has asked us to be specific. So there is further dialogue that's needed. I tend

[0:56:55] Voice 10: to agree with Trustee Evans that there's still a lack of clarity.

[0:57:03] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Julia. I asked to be

[0:57:06] Trustee Luckham: on the speaker's list. Strikes, we've made a request here and thankful for that to request

[0:57:15] Trustee Luckham: us to review. That's the important element. What needs to happen next, I think, to answer the

[0:57:21] Trustee Luckham: question from the province about what the specificity of it is, is we need to sit down

[0:57:28] Trustee Luckham: with the new minister to discuss the specificity of it. What do they need from us? What is this

[0:57:36] Trustee Luckham: about? And we've had enough conversation at this table today. There's enough in this letter for

[0:57:42] Trustee Luckham: Or speaking notes that could be created that could articulate the vast, wide aspect of the reasons why we want to have a governance review.

[0:57:53] Trustee Luckham: And I agree with many of those things, because ultimately the ministers are champion and needs to be able to take this through the Senate Governor Council in order to be able to get the legislature interested in this.

[0:58:12] Trustee Luckham: and I think we just need to simply have this same

[0:58:15] Trustee Luckham: what you've articulated here needs to be conveyed to the

[0:58:19] Trustee Luckham: minister to support us in that.

[0:58:25] Trustee Luckham: So if there was interest, a motion

[0:58:29] Trustee Luckham: to ask the executive committee to meet with the incoming minister

[0:58:33] Trustee Luckham: as soon as possible to discuss the review of the Alamstras.

[0:58:38] Trustee Luckham: I'm not going to manage the speaker's list. I'm going to go to David Maud and I saw Christina Evans had a

[0:58:42] Trustee Luckham: remark so

[0:58:43] Voice 25: next up is trustee middleton thank

[0:58:50] Voice 24: you thank you david thank you chair um so firstly i

[0:58:56] Voice 24: would say we're hearing about the will of the province we don't know what the will of the

[0:59:00] Voice 24: province is that's that's misspeaking there was a meeting with mid-level bureaucrats no offense to

[0:59:06] Voice 24: them partly good jobs we need those jobs done those people are in important roles but they are

[0:59:11] Voice 24: not speaking for the province they are speaking for their own interests in a particular ministry

[0:59:16] Voice 24: We didn't hear from the ADN, we didn't hear from the Deputy Minister, we certainly

[0:59:20] Voice 24: not heard from the Minister, we're not heard from the province.

[0:59:23] Voice 24: To say we have is wrong.

[0:59:25] Voice 24: So I think what we need to do is say we have our own power and authority here.

[0:59:30] Voice 24: We know our situation better.

[0:59:33] Voice 24: Deferring to what we imagine the province is telling us in a way where we've made

[0:59:39] Voice 24: that up is not helpful.

[0:59:41] Voice 24: I'd say let's put number two on the table, as this request for decision said, defeat

[0:59:46] Voice 24: Defeat it or not, as you will, but let's not try and torture and convolute ourselves into what we imagine the provincial bureaucracy wants when it comes to interact with a separate agency of the province, which is the Analyst Trust.

[1:00:00] Voice 24: We have come up with, through the committee structure of this group, a recommendation that is on the table.

[1:00:07] Voice 24: It will be put on the table.

[1:00:09] Voice 24: In fact, I think if Trustee Patrick, if you want, I can make motion number two, but I'll leave it to you otherwise.

[1:00:14] Voice 24: And that's what we need to deal with.

[1:00:16] Voice 24: That's what the committee spent all the time working on.

[1:00:19] Voice 24: That's what we've now brought back.

[1:00:22] Voice 24: That's what staff have written reports about to on the fly start to generate, oh, geez, we could maybe, you know, have a meeting.

[1:00:29] Voice 24: No, no, no. This is intended for a particular point in time prior to an election, but whether you like it or not is the time you gain and exert political influence if you can get it. Maybe we can't get it, but that's what this letter is written for, is for this particular point in time.

[1:00:47] Voice 24: it's designed to not be specific i hear oh we need to you know they say sharpen it nonsense

[1:00:53] Voice 24: it's kept open to allow the consultation that i hear many of you asking for and so i would say

[1:01:01] Voice 24: this letter is purposefully written as it is it's specific to a task in a time and you may agree to

[1:01:08] Voice 24: send it or you may not but i think that's the discussion and the question that we need to

[1:01:12] Voice 24: answer on the table not communication strategies or what does the province think so um i defer to

[1:01:19] Voice 24: trustee patrick if you wish otherwise chair i would make the motion that is before is on the

[1:01:24] Voice 24: screen here which is uh um that trust council make the request by submitting the letter attached to

[1:01:31] Voice 24: the pendants one to lieutenant governor under section eight two e of the allen's trust that

[1:01:36] Voice 24: outlining the potential scope of review including but not limited to and i won't read those points

[1:01:41] Voice 24: but A through F on what we presented before us.

[1:01:45] Trustee Luckham: So, you know, this is a leadership opportunity.

[1:01:48] Trustee Luckham: We talk a lot.

[1:01:49] Trustee Luckham: We don't take many actions.

[1:01:50] Trustee Luckham: There is no motion on the table.

[1:01:52] Trustee Luckham: And so I am going to ask you to read that motion into the public record

[1:01:55] Trustee Luckham: if that's what you want to do.

[1:01:57] Trustee Luckham: And then we can move it and second it.

[1:01:59] Trustee Luckham: And then quite

[1:02:00] Trustee Luckham: honestly, we've talked about it plenty.

[1:02:02] Trustee Luckham: I'd like to go to a vote.

[1:02:04] Voice 24: Okay, so maybe you missed her.

[1:02:06] Voice 24: I just read the first part of the motion.

[1:02:08] Voice 24: Read the entire motion.

[1:02:09] Voice 24: Okay. So, A, an assessment of the optimum governance model to preserve and protect the trust area pursuant to the province's vision for the future of the trust area.

[1:02:18] Voice 24: The object, B, the object of the Islands Trust Act and clarification of the mandate of the organization.

[1:02:23] Voice 24: C, the governance structure of the organization.

[1:02:26] Voice 24: D, the alignment of decision-making processes and structures with the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act.

[1:02:33] Voice 24: E, the geographic scope of the organization and, in particular, authority over marine areas.

[1:02:38] Voice 24: is, and F, the funding mechanism provided to the organization in light of a clarified

[1:02:43] Voice 24: mandate.

[1:02:45] Trustee Luckham: We have a second there.

[1:02:46] Trustee Luckham: Excellent.

[1:02:47] Trustee Luckham: So, Council, have we talked about this enough?

[1:02:50] Trustee Luckham: Can we go to the vote?

[1:02:53] Trustee Luckham: All right.

[1:02:54] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor?

[1:03:01] Voice 26: I say 7, 8, 9 in the rear and 1 in the back.

[1:03:09] Voice 26: We have

[1:03:10] Trustee Luckham: 4 or 5.

[1:03:12] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:03:13] Trustee Luckham: So, I'm going to ask for everybody to lower their hands.

[1:03:16] Trustee Luckham: and now please raise your hand if you're opposed and

[1:03:30] Voice 26: opposed 14 in favor council

[1:03:31] Trustee Luckham: thank you that

[1:03:34] Trustee Luckham: carries is there a further motion on this topic and so i see hands up i'm not going to take

[1:03:42] Trustee Luckham: comments at this point we've just passed two motions further action from council there is a

[1:03:50] Trustee Luckham: motion recommended unless there's

[1:03:52] Voice 19: nobody prepared to advance it all right i just wanted my vote to

[1:03:56] Voice 19: be recorded as opposed please thank you please

[1:04:02] Voice 7: give your names to the minutes okay so thank

[1:04:09] Trustee Luckham: you names recorded to the minute taker and now christina evans so

[1:04:15] Trustee Evans: clarity questions so we so

[1:04:16] Trustee Evans: the motion that passed is that this letter be now forwarded as is yes

[1:04:23] Trustee Luckham: absolutely well done

[1:04:27] Trustee Luckham: Is there any further business on this item?

[1:04:33] Trustee Luckham: Go ahead, Ben Maberly.

[1:04:36] Voice 23: Yeah, I think I do have something.

[1:04:39] Voice 23: So I've been listening to what everybody's had to say,

[1:04:44] Voice 23: and it's in relation to Section D on that motion, I believe, right?

[1:04:50] Voice 23: Yeah.

[1:04:51] Trustee Luckham: Where's the motion?

[1:04:53] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, Section D is the alignment of decision-making processes and structures

[1:04:57] Trustee Luckham: with the Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act.

[1:05:01] Voice 23: So, and I asked staff for some advice on this, so I'm going to turn to them.

[1:05:09] Voice 23: Under the Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act, Section 7, there's legislation that actually provides for us to make agreements with the provincial government and with a local governing body and with First Nations.

[1:05:26] Voice 23: So I'm going to, just for a little bit of clarity, turn to Julia, or David.

[1:05:31] Voice 23: David, thank you.

[1:05:32] Voice 23: I was hoping I was working with staff on this earlier but I was hoping to have something more

[1:05:37] Voice 23: formal here but I'll turn to you David because I think that's important to this process

[1:05:44] Voice 7: yeah so I think what you want me to just let council know is that section 7 of DRIPA

[1:05:51] Voice 7: allows the minister to enter into agreements with First Nations on behalf of other

[1:05:59] Voice 7: other decision makers, which could be ministries, but that can also be local governments or in this

[1:06:06] Voice 7: case, trust council, local trust committees. So that is a possibility. There's no examples of

[1:06:14] Voice 7: that yet. I'm not aware of any local government that's made that request. There are some agreements

[1:06:20] Voice 7: being worked on, mostly to do with resources in different areas of the province. Young Anderson

[1:06:27] Voice 7: and did provide a public bulletin on it

[1:06:30] Voice 7: and just commented that this is a tool

[1:06:33] Voice 7: that local governments could use.

[1:06:36] Voice 7: So I think it's something council could consider

[1:06:39] Voice 7: as an ask of the province

[1:06:41] Voice 7: if you want to start looking at ways

[1:06:45] Voice 7: to enter into agreements.

[1:06:47] Voice 7: But keep in mind,

[1:06:48] Voice 7: and the young Anderson bulletin,

[1:06:50] Voice 7: and I'll send it to you if you want it,

[1:06:53] Voice 7: does say that even though it's a ministry agreement,

[1:06:57] Voice 7: is between the province and the First Nation.

[1:07:01] Voice 7: If it involves a local government,

[1:07:03] Voice 7: such as a request like this,

[1:07:06] Voice 7: it's highly likely the province will include

[1:07:08] Voice 7: the local government in those negotiations.

[1:07:11] Voice 7: But that is something you'll have to consider as well,

[1:07:14] Voice 7: is how much involvement will occur if you go that route.

[1:07:20] Voice 7: So it's a big unknown, but it is a possibility.

[1:07:25] Voice 7: Thank you, David.

[1:07:26] Voice 23: So the reason I'm bringing this up

[1:07:28] Voice 23: is because there's been a lot of talk about engagement so I want to touch on

[1:07:35] Voice 23: a few things there we do as an organization engage whether we do that

[1:07:42] Voice 23: effectively or not is thank you is up for discussion I'll give you an example

[1:07:54] Voice 23: you know trustee Elliott you talked about working on this process together

[1:08:00] Voice 23: with First Nations about, you know, from bottom up.

[1:08:04] Voice 23: Well, we have done that in a sense.

[1:08:06] Voice 23: We've done that with the trust policy statement.

[1:08:08] Voice 23: We've had a lot of engagement into the trust policy statement

[1:08:13] Voice 23: about what that should look like from First Nations' point of view.

[1:08:17] Voice 23: And there's some very clear direction in there from First Nations,

[1:08:22] Voice 23: from the local nations, from 10 of them, yeah,

[1:08:26] Voice 23: about what that should look like.

[1:08:27] Voice 23: I think it would be disingenuous of us to pretend that that didn't happen, right?

[1:08:43] Voice 23: I think there's merit in including this particular piece of legislation in the request for an ask to flesh it out.

[1:08:54] Voice 23: I'm not saying we ask that we come to an agreement.

[1:08:57] Voice 23: I'm just saying ask staff to flesh that out for us so that we can understand what that looks like, right?

[1:09:07] Voice 23: Because, forgive me for being cynical, like Joe said, we've been in this, we've done this circus before, right?

[1:09:18] Voice 23: I almost can guarantee you what's going to happen this afternoon when we get into the trust policy statement.

[1:09:25] Voice 23: Everybody around this room will pick away at that trust policy statement until there's no flesh on the bone anymore.

[1:09:37] Voice 23: All of that engagement will have been for naught.

[1:09:40] Voice 23: And then we will go back to those same nations and say, well, what do you think of this?

[1:09:47] Voice 23: And quite rightfully, I think their answer will be, sorry, but we already did this.

[1:09:54] Voice 23: Right.

[1:09:55] Voice 23: So I think there's an avenue here with DRIPA, with Section 7, to, in essence, allow, whether it's trust council as a whole,

[1:10:11] Voice 23: or individual LTCs to enter into agreements with their local First Nations.

[1:10:16] Voice 23: to look at co-management.

[1:10:22] Voice 23: So do you have a motion in mind?

[1:10:24] Voice 23: I kind of do.

[1:10:25] Voice 23: I'd like help crafting it because I'm not great at that.

[1:10:28] Voice 23: But I would make the motion that Trust Council ask staff to engage with the province

[1:10:37] Voice 23: to analyze Section 7 of DRIPA to see how it would pertain to the review that we're asking for.

[1:10:53] Voice 23: So maybe that's not quite worded right, but I'm

[1:10:56] Trustee Luckham: sure there's lots of smarter people in this room who

[1:10:58] Voice 23: can craft that.

[1:10:59] Trustee Luckham: Well, Ben, you're a smart person. That's a good motion. Let's try and get it up on the screen. And Ben, thank you very much.

[1:11:07] Voice 18: I'd second the motion.

[1:11:08] Trustee Luckham: Once it's up on the screen and we know what we're voting on, I will ask for a seconder. And I heard a voice there.

[1:11:14] Voice 18: That was Trustee Harris.

[1:11:26] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for your patience, Council. Yeah, a little bigger.

[1:11:44] Voice 25: Well, we'll go on to something else again.

[1:11:49] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, motion changes the speaker's list.

[1:11:58] Trustee Luckham: And Ben, do you want to assist staff with the final bit of the wording there and how?

[1:12:02] Trustee Luckham: We're

[1:12:10] Voice 23: asking staff and gates of the province to analyze Section 7 of the DRIP and how it pertains

[1:12:17] Trustee Luckham: to the LTCs.

[1:12:18] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, it pertains to the LTCs.

[1:12:20] Voice 23: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah.

[1:12:22] Voice 23: Laurie?

[1:12:23] Voice 23: I'm good with that.

[1:12:30] Trustee Luckham: Local trust committees, we'll spell that out.

[1:12:32] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, yeah, I think I'm good with that.

[1:12:35] Trustee Luckham: Okay, Ben, that's your motion.

[1:12:37] Trustee Luckham: I second the motion.

[1:12:39] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Jamie.

[1:12:40] Trustee Luckham: Seconded.

[1:12:43] Trustee Luckham: Do you wish to speak further to the motion?

[1:12:44] Trustee Luckham: I think you were eloquent.

[1:12:46] Voice 5: Yeah.

[1:12:47] Voice 5: Sorry to interrupt, but can we just get that up on the screen for everybody online?

[1:12:51] Voice 5: Because none of us can see what you guys are talking about right now.

[1:12:56] Trustee Luckham: Sorry, my apologies.

[1:12:57] Trustee Luckham: That will come up here instantly.

[1:13:05] Trustee Luckham: You don't wish to speak to it further?

[1:13:06] Trustee Luckham: I think I said what I was

[1:13:08] Trustee Luckham: going to say.

[1:13:09] Trustee Luckham: So can you see that online now?

[1:13:12] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.

[1:13:13] Trustee Luckham: And any other speakers on the motion?

[1:13:15] Trustee Luckham: I would love to just vote on this.

[1:13:17] Trustee Luckham: I'm not seeing any.

[1:13:22] Trustee Luckham: Oh, Dr. Fader.

[1:13:25] Trustee Luckham: So

[1:13:25] Voice 9: my only comment is the Islands Trust is not a corporate body as such.

[1:13:29] Voice 9: So I would encourage you maybe make it Islands Trust Council.

[1:13:32] Voice 9: All right.

[1:13:32] Trustee Luckham: That

[1:13:33] Voice 9: would help us in terms of tracking this forward, just as one minor suggestion.

[1:13:37] Voice 9: And then you might want to consider a conservancy board.

[1:13:38] Voice 9: if you're wanting to look at the totality of Islands Trust.

[1:13:42] Voice 9: But at the very least, I would suggest making it council rather than just Islands Trust,

[1:13:46] Voice 9: which isn't really a legal entity.

[1:13:51] Trustee Luckham: So for fullness, I think that would be the expectation.

[1:13:56] Trustee Luckham: It's not changing the motion.

[1:13:57] Trustee Luckham: Islands Trust Council, Islands Trust Conservancy, local trust committees, and Bowen Isle Municipality.

[1:14:04] Voice 22: Point of order.

[1:14:05] Voice 22: Point of order.

[1:14:06] Voice 22: It's not the chair's motion.

[1:14:07] Voice 22: It's the motion of Trustee Member Lee.

[1:14:09] Voice 22: So it's for him to decide whether the Conservancy goes in or not.

[1:14:14] Trustee Luckham: Absolutely. I think we're just looking at an amendment to the motion that does not change the intent.

[1:14:20] Trustee Luckham: And I'll turn to Ben Mobley. Are you satisfied with that, sir?

[1:14:24] Voice 23: Yeah, I'm good with that. I think the idea is to have the conversation.

[1:14:29] Voice 23: Right. The more people we have the conversation with, as we all talked about earlier, the better.

[1:14:36] Voice 23: So, yeah, I think this works.

[1:14:40] Voice 23: yeah everybody

[1:14:42] Trustee Luckham: okay online okay all those in favor please lower your hands did you get them online

[1:15:00] Voice 26: okay

[1:15:01] Trustee Luckham: so well we need specificity so um online if you can just raise your hands if you're in

[1:15:07] Trustee Luckham: favor again sorry i called too quickly thank you all

[1:15:12] Voice 26: right

[1:15:13] Trustee Luckham: and so please lower your hands everybody

[1:15:15] Trustee Luckham: everybody online? And are there any opposed? Please raise your hands.

[1:15:20] Voice 26: That was everybody.

[1:15:22] Trustee Luckham: That's unanimous council. Thank you very much. We are unanimous on that topic. Thank you.

[1:15:30] Trustee Luckham: Is there any further business on the provincial review of the Allen's trust? Trustee Evans

[1:15:35] Trustee Luckham: and Yates and Getty.

[1:15:38] Trustee Evans: So in the letter that's going to be sent, the way that it's been written,

[1:15:43] Trustee Evans: it says accordingly at its september 24th 26 2024 meeting trust council affirmed its support for the

[1:15:49] Trustee Evans: original request made under section blah blah of the unstressed act by and i believe here we have

[1:15:55] Trustee Evans: to record our vote 14 to 10 resolving i'm

[1:16:03] Trustee Luckham: sorry i was distracted what's the question

[1:16:06] Trustee Luckham: it's

[1:16:07] Trustee Evans: a statement so the letter isn't finished because we've got unanimously in brackets

[1:16:11] Trustee Evans: it's anticipating a unanimous carry on this but it was 14 to 10 so the way that the letter's written

[1:16:20] Trustee Luckham: um if

[1:16:21] Trustee Evans: we if we can put the letter up on on the screen then i can show people okay thank you

[1:16:27] Trustee Luckham: okay so you're saying the content of the letter is inaccurately um representing no

[1:16:33] Trustee Evans: no uh so now go

[1:16:35] Trustee Evans: back to the very first paragraph first paragraph first paragraph so the the sorry that the last

[1:16:44] Trustee Evans: sentence on the second paragraph second paragraph can

[1:16:47] Trustee Luckham: you make it bigger

[1:16:52] Voice 26: i'm

[1:16:52] Voice 18: sorry to interrupt if we could please see that online um thank you all right and

[1:16:59] Trustee Luckham: at the top

[1:17:00] Trustee Evans: it says third line down accordingly at its september 24 to 26 2024 meeting trust council

[1:17:09] Trustee Evans: affirmed its support for the original request made under section blah blah of the islands trust act

[1:17:15] Trustee Evans: act by, and here we have to record our vote 10, 14 to 10 resolving. So that has to be put in.

[1:17:21] Trustee Evans: Yeah.

[1:17:22] Trustee Luckham: And that's why it's in brackets there, I think. So that's fantastic. Thank you for

[1:17:25] Trustee Luckham: picking up on that. And just CAO.

[1:17:32] Voice 10: Thanks, Trustee Evans. So that word there is in brackets

[1:17:35] Voice 10: because of course we didn't know where the vote would land. The suggestion would be that, you

[1:17:41] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: know,

[1:17:41] Voice 10: it's not a unanimous vote. So that word would be removed and we wouldn't be recording

[1:17:45] Voice 10: supporting the votes in there unless requested if a motion is passed by council council as a

[1:17:51] Voice 10: body owns it um and so it would just travel as forward as such um there would need to be another

[1:18:00] Voice 10: amendment to the letter because of course resolution number three has not been passed so

[1:18:04] Voice 10: we would be looking to strike that we

[1:18:08] Trustee Luckham: haven't advanced motion three though is

[1:18:11] Voice 10: the intent to

[1:18:12] Voice 10: move to that one say

[1:18:14] Trustee Luckham: that again is

[1:18:15] Voice 10: the intent to um move to the third

[1:18:20] Trustee Luckham: motion i had heard there was

[1:18:21] Voice 10: not i

[1:18:22] Trustee Luckham: don't know i certainly didn't get the indication that there was more business to

[1:18:27] Trustee Luckham: conduct on this topic but let's just resolve this so um the third motion has not been tabled um we're

[1:18:34] Trustee Luckham: on the second the letter of the second motion it will be amended according to um the um the fact

[1:18:43] Trustee Luckham: that it was carried without any reference to the number for or against. And so I think that

[1:18:51] Trustee Luckham: concludes that second motion. And actually the third motion, which is Ben Mabry's, which we've

[1:18:59] Trustee Luckham: just passed to specifically address that section of the legislation. So now is there further

[1:19:07] Trustee Luckham: business on the provincial view of the Allianz Trust? We have a statement. All right.

[1:19:14] Voice 2: All

[1:19:14] Voice 25: right, back to the original speaker's list for Trustee Scott.

[1:19:19] Voice 39: Thank you.

[1:19:21] Voice 39: Given what Toby Elliott said originally, I mean, it might have been yesterday,

[1:19:27] Voice 39: even about meeting with the people at UBCM about this whole thing,

[1:19:34] Voice 39: that's why I voted against that earlier motion.

[1:19:36] Voice 39: So I thought what it should say, something like going down the number,

[1:19:39] Voice 39: is that the Executive Committee of the Trust Council, in conjunction with staff,

[1:19:46] Voice 39: develop the follow-up letter relating to one because of take all of the stuff that's in here

[1:19:59] Voice 39: kbcdef take that back and develop the whole thing into a comprehensive letter it's not going to be

[1:20:07] Voice 39: hold it it's not going to be done by

[1:20:10] Trustee Luckham: us okay so i have a point of order if you want to make a motion

[1:20:13] Trustee Luckham: This is the time to do it and articulate it 100%.

[1:20:17] Trustee Luckham: The point of order is?

[1:20:20] Trustee Luckham: Trust Council has voted on it.

[1:20:25] Voice 22: Trust Council has resolved to send the letter as drafted.

[1:20:28] Voice 22: We're not hearing from a trustee about amending it and editing it.

[1:20:32] Voice 22: I mean, that business has been concluded.

[1:20:36] Trustee Luckham: I'm sorry.

[1:20:37] Trustee Luckham: If I'm mistaken, please correct me.

[1:20:40] Trustee Luckham: I think Grant Scott is asking about the third motion up on the screen at the bottom there.

[1:20:47] Trustee Luckham: And I think he's wanting to advance that motion, but providing an amendment to it.

[1:20:54] Trustee Luckham: Is that correct?

[1:20:55] Trustee Luckham: I don't think that's got anything to do with business already conducted.

[1:20:59] Voice 22: Oh, in that case, I apologize.

[1:21:00] Voice 22: I misunderstood.

[1:21:01] Voice 22: That's all right.

[1:21:04] Trustee Luckham: So, Trustee Scott, do you want to advance a motion then, if you can, please?

[1:21:09] Voice 39: Yes.

[1:21:10] Voice 39: Yes. I'd like to make a motion that the Executive Committee of Trust Council, in conjunction with staff, develop the follow-up letter relating to the Trust Council request that the Governor and Council for the Province of British Columbia to conduct a review of the Islands Trust mandate, governance, and structure.

[1:21:37] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Subtly different. We can debate the merits of it, okay?

[1:21:43] Trustee Luckham: But move my point of work. No, my point of order.

[1:21:46] Voice 32: I have to get that

[1:21:47] Voice 22: the amendment to

[1:21:50] Voice 22: the proposed amendment to this draft resolution three would has the effect of actually revisiting

[1:22:00] Voice 22: the resolution that's already been passed

[1:22:01] Voice 30: because

[1:22:03] Voice 22: it's the effect of it is to have to rewrite the

[1:22:05] Voice 22: the letter so i

[1:22:06] Trustee Luckham: agree with the objection and less counsel wants to overrule the chair

[1:22:16] Trustee Luckham: well yeah we're stuck in this space right so i i think that if you want to make a motion

[1:22:22] Trustee Luckham: the along the lines of the third motion the the motion that you've made isn't the right one

[1:22:28] Trustee Luckham: because it's revisiting the content of the letter that we've just agreed to send and that's the

[1:22:33] Trustee Luckham: the objection that I'm hearing from the floor. And I am going to support that as correct. And so

[1:22:38] Trustee Luckham: unless there's somebody that wants to overrule that, then let's continue on. And so, Julia,

[1:22:44] Trustee Luckham: I think you had your hand up there. You did have your hand up there. So I've dealt with that. And

[1:22:49] Trustee Luckham: so if there's a necessity for a third motion, let's do it. But let's get it so that it doesn't

[1:22:54] Trustee Luckham: compromise the first one. Julia, your advice?

[1:22:57] Voice 10: I was just going to suggest if it's if it was

[1:23:00] Voice 10: unclear to trustees that the previous motion was to send the letter that is in this yes

[1:23:05] Voice 10: agenda that

[1:23:06] Voice 10: you might want to ask the question if it was clear or not oh

[1:23:10] Trustee Luckham: it was thank you was it unclear that the

[1:23:13] Trustee Luckham: letter that's in the package um was what the previous motion was intended to send well there's

[1:23:20] Trustee Luckham: i'm seeing some nods around the room which is interesting so um let's hear from one to seek

[1:23:27] Trustee Luckham: that clarity um yeah um the question that i'm asking council is was it clear the previous

[1:23:42] Trustee Luckham: motions actions can

[1:23:44] Voice 8: you ask the person to pass the motion that they intended

[1:23:55] Voice 26: i

[1:23:56] Voice 24: think you need to rule on it yes it's a motion to rescind your people are questioning the the

[1:24:02] Voice 24: validity of the of the motion that was dutifully passed which effectively is advancing a business

[1:24:07] Voice 24: to rescind the prior motion which is not allowed except under certain circumstances i think uh

[1:24:12] Voice 24: director marta will fill us in on on those criteria i think you're on strong ground chair

[1:24:18] Voice 24: to be able to proceed here and do business as we're currently doing without being waylaid by

[1:24:23] Voice 24: these yeah

[1:24:30] Trustee Luckham: i want to hear your point of order um but i just need to say i have not heard a motion

[1:24:35] Trustee Luckham: to rescind period and so it's it's interesting to speculate what everybody's thinking in the room

[1:24:41] Trustee Luckham: i think that's unfair and i have a point of order um and uh trustee scott please

[1:24:48] Trustee Luckham: hang on no a point of order is christina evans my

[1:24:53] Voice 26: previous

[1:24:55] Trustee Evans: point of order was to please ask the

[1:24:57] Trustee Evans: person moving the motion what their intent was before you make before you make any rulings

[1:25:05] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so what then I think you're asking me is to ask Lee Middleton, who moved the original motion,

[1:25:14] Trustee Luckham: okay, I'm just, yeah, okay, help me get to understanding what you're saying. Okay,

[1:25:22] Trustee Luckham: so your point of order is to go back to Trustee Scott to ask him about the new motion that he

[1:25:28] Trustee Luckham: was about to advance? And what is your intent? And so absolutely, do you want to advance a motion

[1:25:38] Trustee Luckham: that does not contradict the previous motion?

[1:25:42] Voice 39: I was very confused the way that earlier one went,

[1:25:47] Voice 39: adopting ABCD and ENF going into that earlier motion. So when the voting came up on that,

[1:25:55] Voice 39: Yeah, I felt that I did not get an opportunity to make the motion that I earlier made, and I didn't get an opportunity to speak on that. It seemed to come to the floor. Because I think there's a, we need another step in there that takes into account what Toby Elliott was saying, because she actually met with the staff who are going to have to take this letter and work with us to implement it.

[1:26:20] Voice 39: So that's why I thought it was important and maybe what it will take is to rescind it, but I think there are...

[1:26:26] Voice 39: Point of order.

[1:26:31] Trustee Luckham: I'll come to the point of order.

[1:26:34] Trustee Luckham: You know, the rule of policy is you come to address the point of order immediately.

[1:26:39] Trustee Luckham: And so you're being cut off. I don't know that we've ended up in a place where we understand what it is that you're attempting to do.

[1:26:47] Trustee Luckham: Well, there was opportunity for that motion to be discussed.

[1:26:51] Trustee Luckham: that perhaps I didn't provide enough opportunity it has carried

[1:26:56] Voice 27: trustee

[1:27:02] Trustee Luckham: Harris you have a point

[1:27:03] Trustee Luckham: of order trustee Harris have said I have order let's hear trustee

[1:27:10] Voice 18: Harris we have spoken in great

[1:27:12] Voice 18: depth about this motion for yesterday and today and turn out to say I would like to move on please

[1:27:20] Voice 18: thank you what is your point of order trustee Harris that we have already spoken about all

[1:27:25] Voice 18: these things yes we've already

[1:27:27] Voice 18: spoken about this like i i can't just see where are we

[1:27:34] Trustee Luckham: is there another point of order you're

[1:27:38] Voice 26: asking me that drama too

[1:27:40] Voice 39: so here i was going to rescind i was going to make a motion to step back on that earlier one

[1:27:47] Trustee Luckham: you can't do that

[1:27:48] Voice 39: okay all

[1:27:51] Trustee Luckham: right is there any further business on the provincial review of

[1:27:57] Trustee Luckham: of the Ounce Trust. We have a speaker's list. So we have a speaker's list. And so that's the

[1:28:04] Trustee Luckham: question that's been on the floor. Two minutes. We're going for a break.

[1:28:11] Voice 25: Trustee Dodds.

[1:28:15] Voice 6: I just I

[1:28:16] Voice 6: originally put my hand up because Chair Luckham asked if we were confused about the previous

[1:28:22] Voice 6: motion. I totally was not confused. I knew we were voting on what we voted on. So I'll be clear on

[1:28:27] Voice 6: that. I am a little bit concerned that number three, obviously, we need a communication strategy.

[1:28:32] Voice 6: so i think someone needs to move forward with that thank you thank

[1:28:37] Trustee Luckham: you great no i said then

[1:28:40] Trustee Luckham: in another minute oh no well 1001 it says on yours my clock is wrong council let's have a break and

[1:28:48] Trustee Luckham: uh let's let's try with all effort to wrap this up because i want to move to the exciting

[1:28:54] Trustee Luckham: opportunity to have a committee of the whole discussion which we should have started this

[1:28:59] Trustee Luckham: morning uh

[1:29:48] Voice 30: just a question from those online what uh what time are we returning chair uh

[1:30:00] Voice 30: you're muted david did

[1:30:28] Voice 31: you get a response sam no

[1:30:33] Voice 34: i think david responded but he was muted so

[1:30:40] Voice 16: okay

[1:30:41] Voice 34: i missed something

[1:30:45] Voice 34: we're not sure

[1:30:47] Voice 34: oh maybe maybe we're about to get a time that we're about

[1:30:49] Voice 34: to come back

[1:30:50] Voice 31: here we are

[1:30:52] Voice 38: i'm coughing my head off so yeah

[1:30:54] Voice 34: i uh right there with you david

[1:31:00] Voice 34: have our own little group

[1:31:02] Voice 5: online yeah

[1:31:03] Trustee Stamford: you know what i think we'd um we'd get things done so

[1:31:07] Trustee Stamford: do

[1:31:07] Voice 34: you have forum yeah

[1:31:09] Trustee Stamford: well while these guys are breaking let's just get all my stuff

[1:31:12] Trustee Stamford: we'll

[1:31:12] Voice 34: just get it all figured out

[1:45:18] Voice 31: russell council is muted to the online can i have everybody's attention

[1:45:30] Voice 31: attention,

[1:45:31] Trustee Luckham: just so we're focused and we don't misunderstand anything about where we're going

[1:45:37] Trustee Luckham: here. So we've advanced some good work here. We've advanced a letter. There is a third motion here

[1:45:44] Trustee Luckham: at the bottom, which is actually referenced in the letter. And so if we don't pass this third

[1:45:49] Trustee Luckham: motion, then the letter would have to be amended to reflect that. And I don't have any trouble

[1:45:56] Trustee Luckham: with that. Staff can amend that letter. It's just you need to know that staff aren't doing this

[1:46:01] Trustee Luckham: just because they're doing it of their own accord, it's because that motion is not carried

[1:46:06] Trustee Luckham: or a similar motion has not been carried.

[1:46:08] Trustee Luckham: So it comes down to that.

[1:46:11] Trustee Luckham: Is there any further business associated with the review of the request of the province?

[1:46:18] Trustee Luckham: And the answer is yes, there is more business.

[1:46:22] Voice 24: It's the third motion, basically, just in keeping with the idea that those thought and

[1:46:27] Voice 24: rationale put into the whole RFD.

[1:46:28] Voice 24: And there are three motions, so I'll make it.

[1:46:30] Voice 24: So,

[1:46:31] Trustee Luckham: yeah. So notwithstanding, there is a speaker's list. I want to actually get this advanced because we need to move on with the remainder of our business from yesterday.

[1:46:40] Voice 24: So over to you, Lee.

[1:46:41] Voice 24: Okay. Thank you, Chair. I move that the Executive Committee of Trust Council, in conjunction with the staff, develop a communication strategy that informs the public of Trust Council's request for a comprehensive review of the Downs Trust Act and the reasons for it in advance of the next provincial election.

[1:47:21] Voice 24: The idea being that it is understood that the letter goes out as soon as possible and

[1:47:27] Voice 24: therefore now we are switching gears in number three to make a communication about the letter

[1:47:32] Voice 24: that has been sent.

[1:47:34] Trustee Luckham: In advance of the next provincial election.

[1:47:36] Voice 24: Correct.

[1:47:36] Voice 24: Correct.

[1:47:37] Voice 24: Yeah.

[1:47:37] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[1:47:40] Trustee Luckham: In advance of the provincial election.

[1:47:42] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so that's the motion moved and seconded.

[1:47:46] Trustee Luckham: and now you know at this point it belongs to council but does the seconder have some

[1:47:51] Trustee Luckham: point to make on the motion there

[1:47:55] Voice 40: was reference to the fact that the letter would have to be

[1:47:58] Voice 40: amended in some way could you clarify that please thanks

[1:48:02] Trustee Luckham: if we don't pass oh we don't

[1:48:05] Voice 40: okay fine so

[1:48:06] Voice 40: if the motion is passed the letter stands yes thank

[1:48:09] Voice 40: you that

[1:48:10] Trustee Luckham: i'm going to let the council

[1:48:11] Trustee Luckham: staff, I believe that would be correct. Yes. Okay. So now I'm going to go to the speakers list and

[1:48:17] Trustee Luckham: David Maude, that's your role. Trustee Meverly.

[1:48:21] Voice 23: Just a question for staff. What are we at?

[1:48:26] Voice 23: September 26th, 5th or something like that? Elections October 19th. Is that physically

[1:48:33] Voice 23: possible?

[1:48:41] Trustee Luckham: Staff, what's your capacity?

[1:48:43] Voice 9: Well, it really depends on where you rank this in our

[1:48:46] Voice 9: our priority setting, and the executive committee is not scheduled to meet until October 9th.

[1:48:50] Voice 9: So there is a limited, they would have to schedule a special meeting, I would think,

[1:48:53] Voice 9: in order to achieve any outcome in a timely way that would have any hope of influencing

[1:48:58] Voice 9: an election, if that's your intention. So I think you need to tell us where it ranks in priority.

[1:49:04] Voice 9: And I'll speak later maybe around my request around the specifics of a communication strategy

[1:49:10] Voice 9: and what you might be looking for

[1:49:12] Trustee Luckham: okay and so just advising you um if there's any for this to

[1:49:17] Trustee Luckham: be different than what has been moved it would need to be an amendment and i'd look for a motion

[1:49:21] Trustee Luckham: to amend i'm not telling you you need to do that but that's how it's going to go so the speaker's

[1:49:26] Trustee Luckham: list trustees evans

[1:49:27] Trustee Luckham: i'd

[1:49:30] Trustee Evans: like to make an amendment because i don't believe that we can develop a

[1:49:33] Trustee Evans: communication strategy for the public in a week and a bit um and my amendment will be to remove

[1:49:41] Trustee Evans: move in advance of the next provincial election that does not affect when this letter goes out

[1:49:45] Trustee Evans: it affects when the communication strategy for the public gets developed and released so the motion

[1:49:54] Trustee Luckham: is to to i know that we need a secondary so the motion is to amend the motion to remove

[1:50:02] Trustee Luckham: in advance of the next provincial election so do i have a secondary for that uh lisa gabriel thank

[1:50:10] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much.

[1:50:15] Voice 23: Sorry, could this be just a friendly amendment?

[1:50:17] Voice 23: Can we ask the original motion?

[1:50:20] Trustee Luckham: No, it changes the-

[1:50:21] Voice 23: Is this a friendly amendment

[1:50:21] Voice 23: or does it even have to be a-

[1:50:24] Trustee Luckham: I think it needs to be clear to everybody.

[1:50:26] Voice 23: Okay, sure.

[1:50:27] Trustee Luckham: And thank you, Ben.

[1:50:28] Trustee Luckham: We can simply vote on this.

[1:50:30] Trustee Luckham: I don't know that we have to debate it at length.

[1:50:34] Trustee Luckham: So, council, do you understand the motion?

[1:50:36] Trustee Luckham: Are you ready to vote?

[1:50:38] Voice 7: On the amendment.

[1:50:38] Trustee Luckham: On the amendment.

[1:50:39] Trustee Luckham: That is correct.

[1:50:40] Trustee Luckham: Director Frater, your advice?

[1:50:44] Trustee Luckham: Well,

[1:50:44] Voice 9: if I might, Council, through the chair, I'd like to just ask Council. So as a person who would be scripting this and helping work with you on this communication strategy, I'm feeling ill-equipped at this point to support your primary spokesperson in explaining in detail on a radio morning show the reasons for the review.

[1:51:03] Voice 9: you. So I've heard individual trustee comments about its representation by population, or it's

[1:51:09] Voice 9: a desire for co-governance. I really think it would behoove council to linger here a little

[1:51:13] Voice 9: bit longer and support your spokesperson and support staff by articulating as a body the

[1:51:19] Voice 9: reasons. You've got some list in the governance in the draft letter, but I really think it would

[1:51:24] Voice 9: be assistive to your communication strategy to have statements and rationale of this body that

[1:51:29] Voice 9: could then be used to build out key messaging and to build out you know should you want to have an

[1:51:34] Voice 9: op-ed should you wish to have key messaging for your spokesperson all of those pieces because

[1:51:39] Voice 9: right now it's going to be very generic and simply say please read the letter unless you give us a

[1:51:44] Voice 9: little bit more to work with so

[1:51:49] Trustee Luckham: on the motion that's on the floor thank you director freighter

[1:51:53] Trustee Luckham: and with all due respect i don't think there's any opportunity with 26 people in the room to

[1:51:58] Trustee Luckham: articulate that kind of subtle messaging today um i wanna i think the executive committee is going to

[1:52:06] Trustee Luckham: have to determine when this is going to be action and how it's going to be action and we'll maybe

[1:52:11] Trustee Luckham: come back to you with that so on the motion oh sorry on the amendment for the motion is what

[1:52:17] Trustee Luckham: i'd like to focus on and if anybody objects to that i'm not seeing any on uh just speaking to

[1:52:24] Trustee Luckham: the amendment

[1:52:27] Voice 3: yes to the amendment or to any part of number three it there's a slight contradiction

[1:52:34] Voice 3: in our rfd with number three because the request calls for a review and number three calls for a

[1:52:42] Voice 3: comprehensive review yeah

[1:52:45] Trustee Luckham: we're on the amendment uh susan so

[1:52:48] Trustee Luckham: understood you can address that

[1:52:50] Trustee Luckham: so when

[1:52:51] Voice 3: we revisit the motion

[1:52:52] Trustee Luckham: so on the amendment mary i

[1:52:59] Voice 40: just have a concern that you know we were

[1:53:03] Voice 40: advised by adam olsen that timing like seize the day get after it you have a moment if we wait to

[1:53:11] Voice 40: communicate to the public until after the um provincial election we'll lose an opportunity

[1:53:19] Voice 40: So I wonder if we could create a very condensed news release.

[1:53:27] Voice 40: But also, I think that the working group who did such a fantastic job of pulling together all these opinions could be the advisers to the communication.

[1:53:39] Voice 40: Laura is shaking her head.

[1:53:41] Voice 40: Okay.

[1:53:41] Voice 40: Forget that idea.

[1:53:42] Voice 40: But I do wonder about trying to get something out before

[1:53:47] Trustee Luckham: the election.

[1:53:48] Trustee Luckham: Just simply before or after the election.

[1:53:52] Voice 22: Trustee Bernardo.

[1:53:56] Voice 22: I am opposed to this amendment because the tenor or the idea behind it is it's too late

[1:54:05] Voice 22: to do anything in advance of the next provincial election.

[1:54:08] Voice 22: I disagree.

[1:54:08] Voice 22: I disagree. Director Freighter is right. There's just a limit to what executive committee and staff can do in this amount of time that we have available, but it doesn't mean they can't do anything. It just means we heard, I believe, Director Freighter, something about generic utterances, and that may be the limit of what we can do.

[1:54:26] Voice 22: But with this resolution, if it's passed as is, it will be a direction to the executive committee and staff to send the best thing they can in the time available to simply inform the public of what's going on.

[1:54:39] Voice 22: It's not an exercise in advocacy.

[1:54:40] Voice 22: It's simply informing the public that this is happening.

[1:54:43] Voice 22: We're actually not in a position to engage in any kind of advocacy other than to say we believe a review is necessary.

[1:54:50] Voice 22: It's in the nature of the letter.

[1:54:51] Voice 22: We are not specific.

[1:54:52] Voice 22: specific we're not saying we need to have a b and c as specific outcomes we're saying we need to look

[1:54:57] Voice 22: at these things and i think we can keep it pretty simple and some kind of communication can be done

[1:55:03] Voice 22: in the time available so thank you

[1:55:05] Trustee Luckham: in favor of the amendment is that was your point of order

[1:55:10] Trustee Luckham: speak to the amendment thank you for your point of order speak to the anybody who wishes to speak

[1:55:15] Trustee Luckham: to the amendment just the evidence by

[1:55:19] Trustee Evans: removing in advance of the next provincial election for

[1:55:22] Trustee Evans: for coming up with a communication strategy that does not preclude staff from releasing a news

[1:55:28] Trustee Evans: release that points to the letter that's gone out but the big work of creating the communication

[1:55:34] Trustee Evans: strategy to our public needs to be done with thought and care we cannot just keep throwing

[1:55:42] Trustee Evans: things out we that is not good transparent work of the island trust council so let's do some good

[1:55:50] Trustee Evans: work get some good communication strategies in plan and get a good

[1:55:55] Trustee Evans: message out the news release will point to the letter as has gone to the

[1:55:59] Trustee Evans: province which will go prior to the election as will the news release right

[1:56:04] Trustee Luckham: actually yeah decisions of council are summarized and reported out as soon as

[1:56:11] Trustee Luckham: it's humanly possible director Frady oh well

[1:56:17] Voice 9: there's discussion about taking

[1:56:18] Voice 9: time to do it thoughtfully. I've now received from a major media outlet a request for an

[1:56:22] Voice 9: interview today from a spokesperson of Islands Trust on this very topic. So I would say like

[1:56:27] Voice 9: the notion that you wait for an election, not wait for an election, we are in an active media cycle

[1:56:31] Voice 9: that is already happening, such that I would again encourage you to, you know, understand what your

[1:56:37] Voice 9: messaging is going to be, regardless of whether your communication objective is to influence an

[1:56:43] Voice 9: an election, you are in real time receiving media interest on this topic and will have to provide

[1:56:49] Voice 9: some level of messaging in response to that. So just want you to be aware that we are going to

[1:56:55] Voice 9: need to, you know, be responsive to those inquiries such that you're providing the

[1:56:59] Voice 9: messaging that you would like delivered in an imminent time frame.

[1:57:05] Trustee Luckham: And we will deal with those

[1:57:06] Trustee Luckham: requests in due course. I think that that's how that would happen. On the motion to amend.

[1:57:14] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Harris.

[1:57:16] Voice 18: Thank you. I'm not in favor of the amendment. This is actually, it's quite simple, and we don't have

[1:57:24] Voice 18: to make it more complicated than it is. You know, clearly, as time progresses, the strategy will

[1:57:31] Voice 18: continue to evolve. This isn't the end of everything here. So I'm not in favor of this

[1:57:36] Voice 18: amendment to the motion. Thank you.

[1:57:41] Voice 18: No

[1:57:41] Trustee Luckham: other speakers. I'm going to move to the vote. Everybody clear on that? All those in

[1:57:48] Trustee Luckham: favor of the amendment to the motion?

[1:57:54] Voice 7: 6, 7, 11 in favor.

[1:58:00] Trustee Luckham: And online?

[1:58:02] Voice 7: Sorry, 11 total, two online.

[1:58:04] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[1:58:04] Voice 7: Three online, it looks like. Yeah, three online.

[1:58:07] Trustee Luckham: So 12 in favor. So now please lower your hands, everybody. And those opposed?

[1:58:13] Trustee Luckham: opposed.

[1:58:16] Voice 7: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten opposed. And I said

[1:58:25] Voice 7: 11 in favor, 12 in favor. Ten opposed,

[1:58:28] Voice 7: that means there are three abstaining. There are

[1:58:32] Voice 7: 25 trustees, so three have abstained. So

[1:58:37] Trustee Luckham: that motion carries. And so now let's go back to

[1:58:43] Trustee Luckham: the amended motion are we ready to vote on the amended motion and maybe just for clarity's sake

[1:58:50] Trustee Luckham: lori just make sure that's up on the screen on the amended motion who's i see a speaker over

[1:58:59] Trustee Luckham: here who else wishes to speak on the amended motion okay so

[1:59:03] Voice 25: trustee dodge or your no i forgot

[1:59:07] Voice 6: to take down my hand thank you

[1:59:08] Voice 25: trustee yates i'm

[1:59:12] Voice 3: just wondering if we can take the word comprehensive

[1:59:14] Voice 3: comprehensive out of there because it does not match what our original request number one

[1:59:23] Trustee Luckham: I think that's fair uh can if that's all right with everybody yeah Council owns the motion after

[1:59:33] Trustee Luckham: the mover he lets go of it yeah so that sounds like that's a friendly amendment despite me not

[1:59:38] Trustee Luckham: liking friendly amendments so let's strike the word comprehensive because it's not uh in line

[1:59:44] Trustee Luckham: with the original discussion.

[1:59:46] Trustee Luckham: So I'm going to call the vote on the motion as amended.

[1:59:50] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor on the motion on the screen as amended.

[1:59:53] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[2:00:00] Voice 26: 14, 15, 16, 17,

[2:00:02] Voice 7: 21,

[2:00:03] Trustee Luckham: and please lower your hands.

[2:00:08] Trustee Luckham: Those opposed?

[2:00:13] Trustee Luckham: None?

[2:00:13] Trustee Luckham: Okay, that carries then.

[2:00:16] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, counsel.

[2:00:20] Trustee Luckham: I think that concludes the work of the Alamstress Review.

[2:00:28] Trustee Luckham: Who was first?

[2:00:30] Trustee Luckham: I think Trustee Elliott had her hand up.

[2:00:33] Trustee Elliott: Before we can craft a communication strategy,

[2:00:37] Trustee Elliott: can we please get some direction from counsel?

[2:00:39] Trustee Elliott: as to the reasons why for this review in a priority order and i would like a vote

[2:00:46] Trustee Elliott: on the prioritization of what is articulated in the letter to get a sense of where council

[2:00:52] Trustee Elliott: sits on each of these um notes there's dripa there's way too much in there to to speak broadly

[2:01:02] Trustee Elliott: um i would like to separate the request for a review for the perspective of aligning our

[2:01:07] Trustee Elliott: mandate with DRIPA from the rest of

[2:01:11] Trustee Elliott: we have other structural issues, for instance.

[2:01:15] Trustee Elliott: Thank

[2:01:21] Trustee Luckham: you, Toby. I don't know how we're going to do that.

[2:01:29] Trustee Luckham: Pardon me? I still don't know how effective

[2:01:44] Trustee Luckham: that's going to be. We're falling way behind. If you want to

[2:01:48] Trustee Luckham: fall further behind, then that's your privilege to do so.

[2:01:52] Trustee Luckham: We could be here till lunchtime going through the speakers list to try and generate a list

[2:01:56] Trustee Luckham: And at the end of the day, somebody needs to craft a motion to articulate that so that that content is carried.

[2:02:03] Voice 34: Chair, if I may.

[2:02:06] Trustee Luckham: No.

[2:02:07] Voice 34: Okay.

[2:02:09] Trustee Luckham: Sorry.

[2:02:12] Trustee Luckham: I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around how we can achieve this.

[2:02:16] Trustee Luckham: I want you to be successful.

[2:02:21] Trustee Elliott: What do you want us to communicate with the public?

[2:02:24] Voice 26: Okay.

[2:02:28] Voice 26: Let's just

[2:02:29] Voice 26: roll

[2:02:31] Trustee Luckham: back here a second.

[2:02:33] Trustee Luckham: And sure, Toby Elliott has made it a recommendation that we should have a discussion about the detail associated with this work.

[2:02:43] Trustee Luckham: And so let's get a speaker's list. And off we go.

[2:02:47] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Middleton.

[2:02:52] Voice 24: Thank you. Well, I wasn't really going to respond to that.

[2:02:56] Voice 24: To

[2:02:57] Trustee Luckham: the point. OK.

[2:02:58] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:02:58] Voice 24: Well, the point being, okay, now we've completed that business. In case there's confusion, to reiterate, letter referenced in motion number two will be drafted and sent out as soon as possible following the conclusion of this meeting.

[2:03:11] Voice 24: just wanted to be clear on that point and number three i think there's plenty of um evidence

[2:03:18] Voice 24: that the executive members could bring up who sit on the governance committee who could who could

[2:03:24] Voice 24: give input into into what a as i think uh trustee manana said a simple uh release a factual release

[2:03:32] Voice 24: is really all that will be required um as step one um and there's there's tons of documentation

[2:03:40] Voice 24: through the work of the Governance Committee

[2:03:43] Voice 24: as to the rationale ending up in this RFD

[2:03:46] Voice 24: from the Governance Committee.

[2:03:48] Voice 24: So just those two points.

[2:03:50] Voice 24: Thank you.

[2:03:50] Voice 24: Thank you.

[2:03:52] Voice 24: Trustee Evans.

[2:03:54] Trustee Evans: I would like to defer this conversation

[2:03:57] Trustee Evans: to a special meeting of a committee of the whole

[2:04:00] Trustee Evans: to have a full discussion

[2:04:03] Trustee Evans: surrounding the council's positions

[2:04:06] Trustee Evans: on each of these for a communications plan or strategy.

[2:04:10] Trustee Evans: The reason why I'm saying this is because we've had a split council on the topic of

[2:04:16] Trustee Evans: the letter.

[2:04:17] Trustee Evans: So I think it would behoove us to actually sit and have a separate conversation regarding

[2:04:23] Trustee Evans: this.

[2:04:24] Trustee Luckham: So thank you, Christina.

[2:04:26] Trustee Luckham: So that would be a motion to refer to committee of the whole.

[2:04:30] Trustee Luckham: And so thank you for that.

[2:04:32] Trustee Luckham: That's a motion.

[2:04:33] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to accept that motion.

[2:04:34] Trustee Luckham: Is there a seconder on the motion to refer to committee?

[2:04:38] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Alex Allen.

[2:04:39] Trustee Luckham: So now it's debatable and we can decide.

[2:04:43] Trustee Luckham: So on the motion to refer, I'm going to turn it to...

[2:04:51] Trustee Luckham: So in due course, Laurie's typing it up.

[2:04:56] Trustee Luckham: We'll get it on the screen, but let's start the discussion.

[2:04:59] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Bernardo.

[2:05:01] Voice 22: I'm opposed to the motion

[2:05:04] Voice 22: and the motion and Trustee Elliot's points coincide.

[2:05:11] Voice 22: So Trustee Elliot's point

[2:05:15] Voice 22: point about what are the priorities. Well, the priorities are actually set out

[2:05:19] Voice 22: in the letter. They're set out in order of priority.

[2:05:23] Voice 22: Reconciliation is first. The democracy thing is second. They're actually all

[2:05:27] Voice 22: interrelated. And let's not

[2:05:31] Voice 22: forget, in fact, what the substance of

[2:05:37] Voice 22: Resolution 3 is. This body has handed off

[2:05:41] Voice 22: to Executive Committee and staff the responsibility of developing the

[2:05:45] Voice 22: communication strategy. With respect, you don't have to ask. We don't have to have that discussion

[2:05:50] Voice 22: in the Committee of the Whole. We've lobbed it into the hands of the Executive Committee to craft

[2:05:54] Voice 22: a communication strategy that's appropriate for this thing. And over to you, Trustee Elliott.

[2:06:03] Voice 22: So that's why I'm opposed to the motion.

[2:06:05] Voice 25: Thank you. Trustee Barthwick.

[2:06:08] Voice 34: Thank you. I am also opposed to the motion. I don't think that a Committee of the Whole

[2:06:13] Voice 34: discussion of this is going to uh is going to be a useful forum for that discussion um i my

[2:06:20] Voice 34: suggestion is a separate suggestion so i but i want to keep to the motion that we're speaking

[2:06:24] Voice 34: to i think there's a better way to do this um i suppose my suggestion would be that the executive

[2:06:31] Voice 34: reach out to trustees and that we can have this discussion the executive can can solicit those

[2:06:36] Voice 34: opinions without us having to bat it around a big table that would be my feeling is more effective

[2:06:42] Voice 34: and probably more productive. Okay,

[2:06:45] Trustee Luckham: on the motion.

[2:06:46] Voice 34: Say again?

[2:06:47] Trustee Luckham: You next. Oh, I'm next.

[2:06:52] Trustee Luckham: You know, without

[2:06:56] Trustee Luckham: further clarity, as your

[2:06:59] Trustee Luckham: spokesperson, it's pretty clear to me, I'm going to reference this letter

[2:07:03] Trustee Luckham: and I'm going to say the council wants a comprehensive review

[2:07:07] Trustee Luckham: of the Islands Trust Act.

[2:07:08] Trustee Luckham: yeah but sometimes my humor is very shallow and sometimes it's too much but we're going to wing

[2:07:20] Trustee Luckham: it quite honestly and i so it's up to you yeah thank you sir so i think i agree to some extent

[2:07:33] Trustee Luckham: with what trustee middleton has proposed is that there's enough conversation that we can articulate

[2:07:37] Trustee Luckham: articulate the bigger picture but it's going to be very high level and to tell you the truth the

[2:07:42] Trustee Luckham: media are not going to be satisfied with the answer they get because they're going to want more

[2:07:45] Trustee Luckham: but they're not going to get more because i don't know more and that's my commitment in this process

[2:07:51] Trustee Luckham: so let's move along uh who's next well um you get on the speakers let's

[2:07:58] Voice 32: trustee trustee evans

[2:08:02] Voice 25: the

[2:08:05] Trustee Evans: reason why i've asked for this to be deferred to council for or um committee of the whole for

[2:08:10] Trustee Evans: or for the discussion staff are the ones that said they need more information,

[2:08:14] Trustee Evans: they need clarity from this council in order for executive committee

[2:08:18] Trustee Evans: and staff to craft a proper communication strategy.

[2:08:25] Voice 25: Trustee Getty.

[2:08:29] Voice 36: Some of the things that we've heard of early on in this discussion

[2:08:33] Voice 36: was the briefing that we got from the interim CAO

[2:08:37] Voice 36: and her comments with respect to the selection of the topics

[2:08:42] Voice 36: and some issues that needed to be more thoroughly developed on that.

[2:08:47] Voice 36: There was also some other things that came up in terms of what some of the other local government bodies were doing

[2:08:56] Voice 36: and researching some of the funding proposals in a 2021 report from UBCM that we haven't looked into.

[2:09:04] Voice 36: And some of the other things that local governments are having in terms of the list of business licensing and enforcement questions that could be expanded upon.

[2:09:18] Voice 36: So I think in terms of preparing the executive committee for a meeting with the new minister.

[2:09:25] Voice 36: So

[2:09:26] Trustee Luckham: on the motion.

[2:09:27] Trustee Luckham: on the motion

[2:09:27] Voice 36: yeah the it seems to me that we've got some other things that we need to get clarity

[2:09:35] Voice 36: on so it wasn't discussed in depth at the to that depth at the governance committee

[2:09:41] Voice 36: i don't particularly want it to come back to the governance committee in terms of having more

[2:09:48] Voice 36: endless discussions but it's possible but i think that um we've got some really good advice that we

[2:09:55] Voice 36: should expand on and be clear on and I think that we do need more time on the

[2:10:07] Trustee Luckham: motion to refer the committee of the whole I

[2:10:10] Voice 36: mean I'm in favor of that so I

[2:10:13] Trustee Luckham: think yeah I was that

[2:10:14] Voice 26: instead of other speakers just yell you so you have asked

[2:10:20] Trustee Elliott: us to craft a communications strategy sending a letter posting a notice to the

[2:10:26] Trustee Elliott: the public those are strategies what is the content of what council has decided we were a

[2:10:34] Trustee Elliott: divided vote so it is not clear that there is unanimous support for what is in this letter

[2:10:40] Trustee Elliott: the letter states a bunch of different things the province said prioritize don't send a laundry list

[2:10:47] Trustee Elliott: we haven't done that we're about to send a list so if the ask is to have first nations at the table

[2:10:52] Trustee Elliott: and council is can make a decision that that is the most important thing then i can go forward

[2:10:59] Trustee Elliott: and say and we can craft some messaging around that that is the primary reason why we want this

[2:11:05] Trustee Elliott: change and if we can get just get a vote on the primary reason then we can develop some messaging

[2:11:11] Trustee Elliott: around that that can support it a communication strategy does not inform us what to say to members

[2:11:18] Trustee Elliott: members of the public and the media that are asking, why does council want this?

[2:11:23] Trustee Elliott: So representation by population, is that top of the list?

[2:11:27] Trustee Elliott: Marine jurisdiction, defining the object, or First Nations at the table?

[2:11:32] Trustee Elliott: So if we could just get a vote on what is your priority,

[2:11:35] Trustee Elliott: then we can support the development of this communication.

[2:11:43] Voice 25: Trustee Campbell.

[2:11:48] Voice 5: Can it not just be that we are requesting a review,

[2:11:52] Voice 5: you given 50 years of an entity that needs a needs a re-up needs a reboot everything else

[2:12:01] Voice 5: in our lives requires a new operating system uh uh you know plug and play readaption like

[2:12:09] Voice 5: why does it have to get so detailed that we can't move forward we're

[2:12:24] Trustee Luckham: gonna wing it or we're gonna

[2:12:25] Trustee Luckham: and be more detailed trustee harris

[2:12:28] Voice 18: thank you um it's it seems to me that the letter states it

[2:12:33] Voice 18: pretty clearly but you know just to reiterate um you know we're asking the province review the

[2:12:40] Voice 18: ability of the islands trust to initiate um true reconciliation and as equally important

[2:12:45] Voice 18: the province we want them to review the democracy deficit democracy deficit plaguing

[2:12:50] Voice 18: the island's trustability to govern those to me are the you know no not neither one is more

[2:12:56] Voice 18: important than the other they're both equally right there in the forefront those are the two

[2:13:00] Voice 18: main reasons and i think that executive committee can can wing that quite well doesn't seem

[2:13:07] Voice 18: complicated but that's through my lens thanks thank

[2:13:12] Trustee Luckham: you trustee harris that's it can i call

[2:13:16] Trustee Luckham: the vote okay all those in favor of the motion that's on your screen one two

[2:13:25] Voice 7: three four five

[2:13:26] Voice 7: six seven eight and ten in favor all

[2:13:31] Trustee Luckham: right please lower your hand you got all the counts on the

[2:13:35] Trustee Luckham: screen yeah any

[2:13:36] Trustee Luckham: opposed one

[2:13:40] Voice 26: three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve fifteen

[2:13:46] Voice 26: so that

[2:13:48] Trustee Luckham: fails all right so we're back

[2:13:56] Trustee Luckham: i've lost her right so we've already we passed the additional motion which was the communications

[2:14:02] Trustee Luckham: strategy this has failed we're back to the motion that trustee elliott has brought

[2:14:08] Trustee Luckham: no so no motion no no motions so we have then concluded this business of provincial

[2:14:15] Trustee Luckham: Inter-Review Reliance Trust.

[2:14:18] Trustee Luckham: Comment quickly.

[2:14:20] Voice 27: I just want to thank the working group

[2:14:22] Voice 27: and the governance committee for what

[2:14:25] Voice 40: they prepared for us.

[2:14:27] Voice 40: It hasn't been easy.

[2:14:29] Voice 40: I think they've done a great job

[2:14:30] Voice 40: and I'm sure they had their own debates internally.

[2:14:35] Voice 40: So without it, we couldn't have moved forward.

[2:14:39] Voice 40: And I would like to appreciate what they did.

[2:14:42] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[2:14:44] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for that acknowledgement.

[2:14:50] Trustee Luckham: yeah you're absolutely i stopped yeah but yeah so say it out loud we don't boo like you see in

[2:14:58] Trustee Luckham: other areas of the world and we also don't clap because it needs to be a totally safe place for

[2:15:04] Trustee Luckham: everybody to share their opinions wherever they happen to be and we do appreciate the work

[2:15:12] Trustee Luckham: work. That's in a point of view. We do appreciate the work. Where are we at? I think we've concluded

[2:15:22] Trustee Luckham: this business. Tim Peterson?

[2:15:24] Voice 20: Yeah, there was a suggestion from Trustee Middleton to defer

[2:15:27] Voice 20: section three. And I'm wondering what else in terms of proceeding today and trying to get

[2:15:34] Voice 20: through our agenda.

[2:15:36] Trustee Luckham: So, okay. That's okay. So we've concluded that. Let's get ourselves back

[2:15:41] Trustee Luckham: back on track okay

[2:15:44] Voice 10: i'm gonna make myself wildly unpopular but i need to ask the question there's

[2:15:52] Voice 10: been debate around timing we just pulled out of this last resolution advancing the communication

[2:15:59] Voice 10: strategy in advance of the election trustee middleton's mentioned that this letter should

[2:16:05] Voice 10: be sent as quickly as possible is that understood at all of council that that's the intent or do

[2:16:12] Voice 10: Do we need to vote on that or is that understood, Chair?

[2:16:15] Trustee Luckham: I think it's about reasonableness.

[2:16:19] Trustee Luckham: There's certainly time to get that out before the end of the election cycle has already begun.

[2:16:24] Trustee Luckham: And so I'm, yeah, I think we're OK with that.

[2:16:33] Trustee Luckham: OK, thank you. I

[2:16:35] Voice 10: need to be sure because we'd pulled that out of the resolution there.

[2:16:37] Voice 10: So

[2:16:38] Trustee Luckham: let's just take a moment to talk about the agenda.

[2:16:40] Trustee Luckham: end up. I think actually, you know, we owe it to ourselves. 6.22 is an easy item. I think we should

[2:16:47] Trustee Luckham: just get that done. We will have completed yesterday's business. I have had it on good

[2:16:52] Trustee Luckham: recommendation that we need to talk about the Allen's Trust object discussion. I have been

[2:16:59] Trustee Luckham: advised that we could actually forego the strategic plan conversation because council has already

[2:17:04] Trustee Luckham: approved, continuing to advance the existing strategic plan. So we can pick this up somewhere

[2:17:10] Trustee Luckham: along the way. And then we do need to have the policy statement amendment project. I think that's

[2:17:18] Trustee Luckham: the order in which I see these things unfolding. That's committee of the whole. And we'll see how

[2:17:25] Trustee Luckham: it goes. We may pick up some time along the way. Any other points of view? Christina Evans.

[2:17:31] Trustee Luckham: With

[2:17:32] Trustee Evans: regards to the strategic plan, if we don't have the discussion today, it does affect the budget because then I just want to have that in consideration.

[2:17:44] Trustee Luckham: You're totally correct. And I want to defer to CAO Mobs, who has considered that element of that discussion. Over to you.

[2:17:56] Trustee Luckham: um

[2:17:57] Voice 10: thanks chair so as you mentioned trust council has approved extending the 2018-2022 strategic

[2:18:04] Voice 10: plan um so there is a strategic plan that is in play currently most of the items that are slated

[2:18:12] Voice 10: for funding in next year's budget are not new pieces of work they're pieces of work that are

[2:18:17] Voice 10: already ongoing from the strategic plan that's been extended so i think if we do have to defer

[2:18:25] Voice 10: for anything to find room in the agenda,

[2:18:27] Voice 10: we could potentially do that.

[2:18:29] Voice 10: Deferring section three object discussion

[2:18:32] Voice 10: in favor of advancing the work on strategic planning

[2:18:35] Voice 10: is a little bit backwards

[2:18:36] Voice 10: because we need to understand our definition of the object

[2:18:40] Voice 10: to inform the work in this strategic plan.

[2:18:43] Voice 10: So of course at the will of council,

[2:18:45] Voice 10: but I think the object discussion is an important one.

[2:18:50] Trustee Luckham: Right.

[2:18:50] Trustee Luckham: And just help me out here for a minute.

[2:18:53] Trustee Luckham: there's no decision necessary here. We've accumulated all of the materials that we've

[2:19:00] Trustee Luckham: received with respect to the interpretation of the Islands Trust Act Section 3. And so it's just

[2:19:08] Trustee Luckham: a conversation around that. Is that correct? That we were anticipating?

[2:19:13] Voice 10: Yes. So there was considerable response from the public in relation to Trust Council's statement

[2:19:20] Voice 10: that was released on its interpretation of the object in response to that trust council in june

[2:19:25] Voice 10: passed a resolution to bring conversation to this table and have an open discussion about it and so

[2:19:29] Voice 10: that's why it's advancing here today okay

[2:19:31] Trustee Luckham: great so thank you so are we okay and you know if all

[2:19:35] Trustee Luckham: of a sudden we find ourselves with a lot of time we could talk about the strategic plan

[2:19:38] Trustee Luckham: but if that's all right let's give ourselves a little bit of an easy item here 6.22 chief

[2:19:44] Trustee Luckham: administrative officer performance evaluation policy this is a request for decision um

[2:19:49] Trustee Luckham: Um, that's on page 105 of your agenda.

[2:19:55] Trustee Luckham: And Julia, you're going to speak to this?

[2:19:57] Trustee Luckham: Excellent.

[2:19:57] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[2:20:00] Voice 10: I think Director Marler actually prepared this briefing, so he's best placed to speak

[2:20:04] Voice 10: to that one.

[2:20:05] Voice 10: Nice try, David.

[2:20:07] Voice 7: Yeah, I tried.

[2:20:09] Voice 7: Yeah, so, um, there was a request, I think it was back in December of 2023, um, when

[2:20:19] Voice 7: some materials were provided.

[2:20:20] Voice 7: and an observation that there isn't a clear policy on the evaluation

[2:20:27] Voice 7: for the chief administrative officer, at least not one of council's policies.

[2:20:34] Voice 7: So there is a desire, I believe, to create that policy.

[2:20:38] Voice 7: Given that you're hiring a new CAO in the next while,

[2:20:42] Voice 7: it would be good to have this evaluation policy in place sooner than later.

[2:20:48] Voice 7: ideally sometimes you know ideally before but i don't think that's going to happen so

[2:20:53] Voice 7: sometime during the early period of the ceo starting allen's trust so it seems that the

[2:21:02] Voice 7: current chief administrative hiring committee has a lot of experience with you know working with the

[2:21:10] Voice 7: ceo and hiring ceo but the terms of reference for that committee doesn't include the long-term

[2:21:17] Voice 7: policy development. It's just to do with the hiring and then the probationary period.

[2:21:22] Voice 7: So this recommendation number one is to create a select committee, and it happens to be the

[2:21:29] Voice 7: Chief Administrative Officer Hiring Committee. It's the executive and the chair of all four

[2:21:34] Voice 7: standing committees. So you would reconvene them as a policy committee for this purpose.

[2:21:41] Voice 7: us and then resolution two is just to establish at the very basic level the terms of reference

[2:21:47] Voice 7: that you would like to see that committee work on so in here I've included the information provided

[2:21:53] Voice 7: by trustees Falk and Patrick and then engaging a consultant to work with them to do that work

[2:22:00] Voice 7: and then make recommendations to trust council which would most likely be a draft policy for

[2:22:05] Voice 7: Council's consideration. Council already approved a $75,000 budget for the hiring of a consultant

[2:22:13] Voice 7: and the hiring of the CAO. And some of those funds are still available. So we could repurpose some of

[2:22:20] Voice 7: those funds. And that's what the last resolution there is suggesting that up to $15,000 be used

[2:22:26] Voice 7: from those funds to engage that consultant. That will allow the work to be done, started

[2:22:31] Voice 7: started immediately. We can follow our procurement policy, likely some form of an award to a

[2:22:39] Voice 7: consultant, and get that work completed before the end of this fiscal year. Okay, over to the

[2:22:47] Voice 7: chair. Thank you.

[2:22:47] Trustee Luckham: All right. Thank you very much. So that recommendation is up on the screen there.

[2:22:52] Trustee Luckham: Just want to let you know something that pertinent to this that you may not be aware of is outside

[2:22:59] Trustee Luckham: Outside of scheduling meetings, squeezing a lot of meetings into the last couple of months, working with the executive committee and the standing committee chairs has been a very rewarding and joyful process where we have a diversity of opinions at the table and we're able to discuss them and work through to solutions.

[2:23:18] Trustee Luckham: And it's been a pleasure to work with that body.

[2:23:20] Trustee Luckham: So I just want to say that.

[2:23:22] Trustee Luckham: Council, what would you like to do with this request for decision?

[2:23:26] Trustee Luckham: Are there any questions or do you want to move to motions?

[2:23:28] Trustee Luckham: Tim?

[2:23:29] Voice 20: i'm ready to make motion um and just for mr marler's uh we have a message from trustee

[2:23:34] Voice 20: stamford uh has left the meeting okay

[2:23:36] Voice 7: thank you uh

[2:23:37] Voice 20: i move that trust council establish a

[2:23:39] Voice 20: chief administrative officer post a performance evaluation policy select committee consisting of

[2:23:44] Voice 20: the members of the executive committee and the chairs of all four standing committees

[2:23:49] Trustee Luckham: moved by the seconder uh marie boland thank you any discussion thank you all those in favor

[2:24:08] Voice 26: Okay.

[2:24:09] Trustee Luckham: And in the room?

[2:24:11] Trustee Luckham: So lower your hands. Thank you, everybody. Lower your hands.

[2:24:14] Trustee Luckham: Any opposed? None opposed. That carries.

[2:24:20] Trustee Luckham: Second motion. Do you want to roll with this, Tim? Thank you.

[2:24:23] Voice 20: I move that Trust Council establish the terms of reference for the Chief Administrator

[2:24:27] Voice 20: Officer Performance Evaluation Policy Select Committee as

[2:24:31] Voice 20: follows. One, review material provided by Trustee Felk and Trustee Patrick

[2:24:35] Voice 20: to Trust Council on December 7th, 2023

[2:24:37] Voice 20: regarding evaluation of Chief Administrative Officers.

[2:24:40] Voice 20: Two, engage a consultant to work

[2:24:42] Voice 20: with the Chief Administrative Officer

[2:24:43] Voice 20: Performance Evaluation Policy Select Committee

[2:24:46] Voice 20: to develop a policy for the performance evaluation

[2:24:48] Voice 20: of the Islands Trust Chief Administrative Officer.

[2:24:51] Voice 20: And three, make recommendations to Trust Council

[2:24:54] Voice 20: on adoption of a Chief Administrative Officer

[2:24:56] Voice 20: performance evaluation policy.

[2:24:59] Trustee Luckham: Move to have a seconder.

[2:25:03] Trustee Luckham: Murray Boland again, thank you.

[2:25:07] Trustee Luckham: If you wish to speak to it, any discussion, all right, call the vote.

[2:25:12] Trustee Luckham: All those in favor?

[2:25:23] Voice 26: I've got seven on hand.

[2:25:24] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:25:25] Trustee Luckham: So any opposed?

[2:25:26] Trustee Luckham: Lower your hand, please, everybody.

[2:25:29] Trustee Luckham: Pause.

[2:25:30] Trustee Luckham: Lower your hand on the screen there.

[2:25:33] Trustee Patrick: There we go.

[2:25:34] Trustee Luckham: And any opposed?

[2:25:37] Trustee Luckham: All right, none opposed.

[2:25:38] Trustee Luckham: That carries.

[2:25:39] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[2:25:39] Trustee Luckham: Finally, go ahead.

[2:25:43] Voice 20: I move that Trust Council approve spending of up to $15,000 from the unspent funds approved

[2:25:48] Voice 20: for recruiting a new chief administrative officer to engage a consultant to develop

[2:25:52] Voice 20: a chief administrative officer policy or performance evaluation policy.

[2:25:56] Voice 20: All

[2:25:57] Trustee Luckham: right. Move. Do I have a seconder? Ben Mabry, thank you.

[2:26:02] Trustee Luckham: Any discussion on that or

[2:26:04] Trustee Luckham: somebody, do you wish to speak to it? No. Okay. Over to the speakers

[2:26:08] Trustee Luckham: on the motion. Go ahead.

[2:26:14] Voice 36: Some of the terms of references for hiring leaders was

[2:26:18] Voice 36: was for them to help us with the performance evaluation during the six months of probation.

[2:26:22] Voice 36: So is that going to be part of the discussion?

[2:26:25] Voice 36: And this would be in addition to the existing contract?

[2:26:31] Voice 7: Yeah, that would be considered as part of the procurement process.

[2:26:34] Voice 7: And this would be additional.

[2:26:37] Voice 7: So that work of leaders is separate.

[2:26:40] Voice 7: That would be to do with the interim.

[2:26:42] Voice 7: But some of that work could be evolved into this as well.

[2:26:48] Voice 7: Trustee Elliott.

[2:26:50] Trustee Elliott: Sorry, I was just noting a discrepancy.

[2:26:53] Trustee Elliott: In the lower recommendation, it says 12,000.

[2:26:56] Trustee Elliott: And in the higher one, it says 15,000.

[2:26:59] Trustee Elliott: Did we waffle between those numbers for a reason?

[2:27:03] Trustee Elliott: There's a second set of recommendation response options,

[2:27:06] Trustee Elliott: and one says 12,000.

[2:27:07] Trustee Elliott: In our discussion, we talked about 12,000.

[2:27:10] Trustee Luckham: I

[2:27:11] Voice 7: think it got bumped to 15.

[2:27:13] Trustee Elliott: It did, eh? Okay, thanks.

[2:27:15] Voice 7: Yeah, that got changed to 15.

[2:27:17] Voice 7: And when I amended it, I didn't amend the second.

[2:27:20] Voice 7: That was my fault.

[2:27:23] Voice 32: A round number.

[2:27:24] Voice 7: I'll trust the evidence.

[2:27:26] Trustee Evans: So the way that this is worded, we're approving a spending of up to $15,000,

[2:27:31] Trustee Evans: but if that person is not required and that money doesn't get spent,

[2:27:35] Trustee Evans: then that's permissible too.

[2:27:37] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, absolutely.

[2:27:38] Trustee Luckham: Exactly.

[2:27:39] Trustee Luckham: Okay, everybody ready to vote?

[2:27:42] Trustee Luckham: All right, all those in favor?

[2:27:51] Trustee Luckham: All right, so please lower your hands just to be certain.

[2:27:56] Trustee Luckham: Anybody opposed?

[2:27:59] Trustee Luckham: None opposed, so that carries.

[2:28:01] Trustee Luckham: Excellent.

[2:28:02] Trustee Luckham: That was nice.

[2:28:03] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, everybody.

[2:28:04] Trustee Luckham: So let us now go to Interpretation of the Islands Trust Act, Section 3, Islands Trust Object Briefing.

[2:28:13] Trustee Luckham: That's in the addendum for you with the supporting material that staff have pulled together.

[2:28:20] Trustee Luckham: This isn't really a briefing at all, but is there anything that staff want to make reference to the process of procuring this information and making it available to us?

[2:28:32] Trustee Luckham: ceo uh

[2:28:35] Voice 10: thanks chair so again this is coming back to trust council at this meeting uh based on

[2:28:40] Voice 10: resolution that trust council passed at its june meeting to bring this topic forward uh so the

[2:28:46] Voice 10: governance review did identify that um you know

[2:28:49] Voice 10: the trust needs to agree on how to interpret the

[2:28:52] Voice 10: preserve and protect mandate that's in the islands trust act the governance committee undertook

[2:28:58] Voice 10: initial part of this work and then advanced its discussion to Trust Council. Trust Council did

[2:29:05] Voice 10: receive legal opinions on the topic as well as a summary of those legal opinions prepared by

[2:29:10] Voice 10: Trustee Bernardo and staff. Of course, that conversation that Trust Council had was held

[2:29:16] Voice 10: in camera. Trust Council subsequently released a statement on the scope and meaning of Section 3

[2:29:22] Voice 10: of the Islands Trust Act Object Clause. There was considerable response to Trust Council's

[2:29:27] Voice 10: statement, as I mentioned. So generally what we saw from the public was a discontentment with

[2:29:33] Voice 10: the fact that Trust Council held its conversations in a closed session. There was a lack of

[2:29:38] Voice 10: understanding around how Trust Council reached its interpretation of the act given conversation

[2:29:44] Voice 10: was held in camera. And there was also some stated concerns with Trust Council's expressed view on

[2:29:50] Voice 10: its interpretation of the object. So at the direction of Trust Council, we bring the topic

[2:29:55] Voice 10: forward to an open session we have once again provided all the material associated

[2:30:00] Voice 10: with this topic in the agenda. There is an addendum to this agenda that contains all of

[2:30:05] Voice 10: the public material available on the object clause. There's also an addendum that is in camera,

[2:30:11] Voice 10: which, you know, contains confidential material. So both of those addendums are for Trust Council's

[2:30:18] Voice 10: reference to inform this conversation. So there was no specific direction that Trust Council gave

[2:30:23] Voice 10: on the nature of this conversation that it wanted to have at this particular meeting.

[2:30:27] Voice 10: meeting. And so we just turn it over to trustees to advance. I can take any questions on the

[2:30:35] Voice 10: material that's provided if there are any.

[2:30:38] Trustee Luckham: Okay, council, it's over to you. And we'll

[2:30:42] Trustee Luckham: run the speakers list and Laura Patrick.

[2:30:46] Trustee Patrick: Thank you very much for the report. There is some

[2:30:48] Trustee Patrick: information in the history piece that's missing. And because each of the protocol agreements between

[2:30:54] Trustee Patrick: the Islands Trust and the various ministries define unique amenities. So there's a definition

[2:31:01] Trustee Patrick: in each protocol agreement, like the Ministry of Highways and Transportation, roads are defined as

[2:31:06] Trustee Patrick: a unique amenity. And it goes on through each of those ministries. So I think that's just a piece

[2:31:12] Trustee Patrick: of history. I think that is relevant to this conversation.

[2:31:18] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, the

[2:31:19] Trustee Luckham: specific request was for this material to come back from the previous June Council, right? And

[2:31:26] Trustee Luckham: That's a very good point, Laura.

[2:31:29] Trustee Luckham: And do you have others on the speaker's list?

[2:31:33] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Evans?

[2:31:34] Trustee Evans: So I know that our conversation the last time was in camera

[2:31:41] Trustee Evans: due to the materials that were confidential that we were reviewing.

[2:31:46] Trustee Evans: And I think that's caused a lot of the questions

[2:31:50] Trustee Evans: because we weren't able to have that discussion

[2:31:53] Trustee Evans: and we still today can't have that particular discussion in open forum

[2:31:57] Trustee Evans: them because it's confidential. Is there a way to get some of that information in a public-facing

[2:32:04] Trustee Evans: document for clarity to the public?

[2:32:08] Trustee Luckham: Good question, and I think the CAO might be in the best position

[2:32:12] Trustee Luckham: to answer that.

[2:32:13] Voice 10: Sure, and I'll just ask Director Marler to look alive in case I misspeak.

[2:32:19] Voice 10: Trust Council may, at its discretion, release confidential information if it wishes. So if

[2:32:26] Voice 10: if there's legal opinions that Trust Council has received and looked at that it wishes to

[2:32:30] Voice 10: make public, it can do that. In the public agenda, there is one legal opinion around

[2:32:36] Voice 10: interpretation of the object, which was previously released to the public. So that is

[2:32:41] Voice 10: one legal opinion that's in the public realm already. So that is absolutely at Trust Council's

[2:32:47] Voice 10: discretion. Trustee Getty.

[2:32:54] Voice 36: When you go through the history and the briefing that we've been

[2:32:57] Voice 36: given it on february of 23 i believe it's on the first page of this briefing um the committee

[2:33:04] Voice 36: requested staff provide all existing legal opinions on file for the review i haven't gone

[2:33:09] Voice 36: back to double check what our request was um and i'm going to accept that this um i suppose what

[2:33:18] Voice 36: i need to do at this point is to apologize on behalf of the governance committee and possibly

[2:33:23] Voice 36: Possibly it's because we've got two lawyers on the committee,

[2:33:26] Voice 36: but I would have hoped that this is too narrow a request

[2:33:33] Voice 36: in terms of just getting the legal opinions.

[2:33:35] Voice 36: And that, I think, is one of the first mistakes that we made

[2:33:38] Voice 36: in getting deep into the legal opinions.

[2:33:42] Voice 36: And this briefing that we've received now

[2:33:46] Voice 36: in terms of the work that the previous trust councils had done

[2:33:49] Voice 36: and other material that had been agreed in 86

[2:33:52] Voice 36: and all the rest of it that that would have been a much more fulsome discussion at the

[2:33:57] Voice 36: the governance committee but be that as it may that's the process that we went through

[2:34:01] Voice 36: and i think that's what's um got us into this um predicament that we're in we've got

[2:34:09] Voice 36: these legal opinions and it's a difficult a bit of a difficult process to get permission from

[2:34:14] Voice 36: and a discussion about um release of all of those documents both from the people that are writing

[2:34:21] Voice 36: the opinion and council's understanding of why we need to have that level of privacy.

[2:34:32] Voice 36: But we didn't have that discussion in terms of releasing the legal opinions.

[2:34:39] Voice 36: Also, when we came out of that meeting in September, where we released our report, RISEN

[2:34:44] Voice 36: report um we might have at that point got a legal opinion in terms of now that we've had

[2:34:51] Voice 36: the discussion are we correct in terms of our assessment of those opinions and um is is there

[2:35:01] Voice 36: more that can be released and get permission then and um figure out how to explain that was a

[2:35:10] Voice 36: a difficult conversation and I think we came out of that meeting thinking that we'd gotten over a

[2:35:15] Voice 36: hurdle in terms of being able to explain and understand and come to some sort of a consensus

[2:35:20] Voice 36: and that was one word that bothered people amongst ourselves about those complicated difficult

[2:35:26] Voice 36: legal opinions it's legalese and it's a different language and it's hard for people to understand

[2:35:31] Voice 36: it was turgid and it was deep and there was lots of it so you know the the second mistake I think

[2:35:39] Voice 36: that we made was coming out of that meeting in September and not being clear in terms of what

[2:35:44] Voice 36: exactly the Verizon report would say. And there were problems afterwards in terms of the actual

[2:35:54] Voice 36: release of the document on our website was different from the very precise and careful

[2:36:03] Voice 36: warning that we had and that took some time all of which led to general

[2:36:10] Voice 36: confusion and feedback from the community in terms of the process and

[2:36:16] Voice 36: the content so there's lots and lots of lessons to be learned and if we were to

[2:36:21] Voice 36: have the discussion now both in governance committee and in this larger

[2:36:25] Voice 36: group I think that the material that we've received today with respect to

[2:36:33] Voice 36: what's happened in previous trust councils and that agreement that was signed in 86 i think that

[2:36:40] Voice 36: we could put a lot of the worry and concern and frustration that people are feeling to rest but

[2:36:46] Voice 36: that's a that's a big conversation so in terms of what happened in september i think

[2:36:52] Voice 36: i'm certainly prepared to acknowledge and take responsibility as chair of the governance

[2:36:56] Voice 36: committee in terms of what the initial ask was. And that now that we've broadened that, I think

[2:37:03] Voice 36: that I hope we could regain some of the confidence.

[2:37:10] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Trustee Getty. And I just want to note,

[2:37:15] Trustee Luckham: as I said, when we got started here, this is a team sport. We're all working together on this

[2:37:19] Trustee Luckham: and collaborating and so thank you for your um briefing there mr bernardo

[2:37:27] Voice 22: yeah thank you um uh dealing first with the material is immediately in front of us um

[2:37:35] Voice 22: you know we're looking at this 38 year old document um the legal opinion that is actually

[2:37:41] Voice 22: attached um to the materials that were provided for uh this uh agenda item uh i'm referencing

[2:37:48] Voice 22: the October 27, 2020 legal opinion, is referring to a case called Vavilov.

[2:37:54] Voice 22: I'm not going to bore you all with all that stuff, but the substance of that opinion,

[2:37:57] Voice 22: it makes it clear, if you read that opinion, that we are not bound as a body by the reasoning

[2:38:02] Voice 22: of trustees 38 years ago.

[2:38:04] Voice 22: That reasoning might be informative of how we choose this term, how do we choose to interpret

[2:38:11] Voice 22: Section 3, but there's nothing binding about what happened, the reasoning of 38 years ago.

[2:38:18] Voice 22: And I think it's kind of obvious that some of the conditions that obtained in the past no longer exist.

[2:38:26] Voice 22: And there are many new conditions that we have to cope with, you know, principally reconciliation.

[2:38:33] Voice 22: So just in terms of an analytical exercise, I don't think this old document is of much assistance.

[2:38:40] Voice 22: And with respect with the chair of the Governance Committee, if she's suggesting in any way that our deliberations last September were inadequate or incomplete, I don't agree.

[2:38:52] Voice 22: I think we had the discussion we needed to have.

[2:38:55] Voice 22: The problem is our communication of that was terrible.

[2:39:00] Voice 22: And there's layers to that, and this isn't the time or place to go into it.

[2:39:04] Voice 22: but there's some excavating that needs to be done there in terms of this whole situation we found

[2:39:11] Voice 22: ourselves in so now we have a situation where a year ago we actually as a body did settle on

[2:39:16] Voice 22: an interpretation of how to understand and deal with the unique amenities element of section three

[2:39:22] Voice 22: and what the whole purpose of section three actually is uh i think we need to revisit the

[2:39:29] Voice 22: the communication part of this.

[2:39:31] Voice 22: And properly last time,

[2:39:35] Voice 22: we felt it was incumbent to keep those,

[2:39:38] Voice 22: the legal opinions that we've relied on confidential

[2:39:43] Voice 22: because they are privileged.

[2:39:45] Voice 22: In retrospect, and I do agree with Trustee Getty

[2:39:49] Voice 22: on this front, we should have put more thought

[2:39:52] Voice 22: into how to communicate,

[2:39:54] Voice 22: like both at the committee level

[2:39:55] Voice 22: and at the trust council level,

[2:39:57] Voice 22: More thought into how to explain what we relied on.

[2:40:04] Voice 22: And I would suggest that we go back to our legal counsel and ask and just have a conversation with them about whether about the pros and cons of releasing that legal opinion that dates back some 16 years ago, which was, I think, central to our reasoning.

[2:40:29] Voice 22: Or if that's not feasible, because there's a lot in there, whether or not legal counsel would be prepared to prepare a revised version of that opinion that would be suitable for sharing with the public.

[2:40:49] Voice 22: But the point I'm struggling with here is I do think it's incumbent on us to go back to the public and be very clear about what we relied upon and how we got to this conclusion.

[2:41:01] Voice 22: And we can't do that unless we go through this portal of explaining the legal analysis that we relied on.

[2:41:06] Voice 22: And somehow we have to find a way of doing that.

[2:41:10] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Joe.

[2:41:12] Trustee Luckham: Who else?

[2:41:14] Trustee Luckham: So somebody wants to make a motion to that effect, I think.

[2:41:17] Trustee Luckham: There's an avenue of pursuit there.

[2:41:18] Trustee Luckham: Christina?

[2:41:21] Trustee Evans: Sorry for winging this.

[2:41:23] Trustee Evans: I move that Trust Council request Executive Committee to release

[2:41:35] Voice 32: a

[2:41:38] Trustee Evans: public-facing version

[2:41:42] Trustee Evans: of the legal opinion that was central to the Islands Trust mandate discussion in March

[2:41:50] Trustee Evans: of 2021.

[2:41:52] Trustee Evans: Okay.

[2:41:55] Voice 30: What every year?

[2:42:12] Voice 2: yeah

[2:42:12] Trustee Evans: apologies okay so changing it to whenever it was that we had our meeting

[2:42:17] Trustee Luckham: so

[2:42:17] Trustee Evans: september 2023 thank

[2:42:19] Trustee Luckham: you okay so that's coming up on the screen

[2:42:20] Trustee Luckham: as staff if you can confirm the date of that most recent materials that would be helpful

[2:42:28] Trustee Luckham: fall 2023.

[2:42:57] Voice 37: Please share for the online participants.

[2:43:00] Trustee Luckham: As soon as we've got it crafted,

[2:43:02] Trustee Luckham: it'll come up. Is that your intent, Trustee Evans? Yeah.

[2:43:50] Voice 26: Just

[2:43:50] Voice 22: a point of clarity. It wasn't an opinion. In September 2023, we arrived,

[2:43:58] Voice 22: We arrived at an interpretation.

[2:44:00] Voice 22: We issued an interpretation of Section 3.

[2:44:03] Voice 7: Yeah, that's correct.

[2:44:05] Voice 7: The date's correct.

[2:44:07] Trustee Luckham: Yep.

[2:44:08] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:44:09] Trustee Luckham: So is that your intention, Trustee Evans?

[2:44:14] Trustee Luckham: And is that clear to staff, what we're asking?

[2:44:16] Trustee Luckham: Because obviously this is a...

[2:44:21] Trustee Luckham: Well, let's figure out if we're in the right place.

[2:44:31] Trustee Luckham: Okay?

[2:44:32] Trustee Luckham: So let's move.

[2:44:33] Trustee Luckham: Do I have a seconder?

[2:44:37] Trustee Luckham: Are you seconding?

[2:44:39] Trustee Luckham: Let's get it seconded.

[2:44:40] Trustee Luckham: We can't amend anything until we've seconded it.

[2:44:43] Trustee Luckham: Does anybody want to second this motion?

[2:44:49] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:44:50] Trustee Luckham: Nobody wants to second it?

[2:44:52] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:44:54] Trustee Luckham: Well, that's good.

[2:44:55] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much.

[2:44:56] Trustee Luckham: That's great.

[2:44:57] Trustee Luckham: It's hard to tell whether people want to make amendments or comments, but now it's moved

[2:45:01] Trustee Luckham: and seconded.

[2:45:02] Trustee Luckham: It's on the table.

[2:45:03] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Getty, I think, has an amendment.

[2:45:07] Voice 36: There was more than one opinion that we looked at.

[2:45:09] Voice 36: There was one that was quite a surprise to people.

[2:45:12] Voice 36: They hadn't heard before, so I think that may be the one that Trustee Bernardo is referring

[2:45:17] Voice 36: to but I would say legal opinions plural yeah

[2:45:21] Trustee Luckham: so I'm gonna just take that as a

[2:45:23] Trustee Luckham: friendly opinion oh I see okay so not friendly is what I'm being told

[2:45:35] Voice 26: oh gosh

[2:45:40] Voice 26: oh

[2:45:42] Trustee Luckham: tomorrow in the in camera I like that idea better than going into in camera

[2:45:49] Trustee Luckham: now so then let somebody make a motion to defer this motion until uh right uh after the in-camera

[2:46:00] Trustee Luckham: session on thursday

[2:46:01] Voice 26: yeah all

[2:46:05] Trustee Luckham: right you got it is there a seconder oh yeah okay seconded

[2:46:13] Trustee Luckham: You wish to speak to the motion, David?

[2:46:17] Voice 19: No, I just wanted you to put 2023 in front of Trust Council

[2:46:21] Voice 19: because it doesn't read properly the way it's written there.

[2:46:24] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, that's fair enough.

[2:46:28] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so this is going to be deferred to the in-camera session

[2:46:32] Trustee Luckham: and then we'll rise and report accordingly when we come out of that.

[2:46:36] Trustee Luckham: Is that all right with Council? Understood?

[2:46:38] Trustee Luckham: Perfect. Okay, thank you very much.

[2:46:42] Trustee Luckham: We have to vote all those in favor.

[2:46:46] Voice 26: And we have

[2:46:52] Trustee Luckham: seven online sites, everybody.

[2:46:55] Voice 2: And

[2:46:55] Trustee Luckham: so certainly it looked like there was voting in favor and are there any opposed?

[2:47:04] Voice 37: Maybe this is a point of order.

[2:47:06] Voice 37: I

[2:47:07] Trustee Luckham: just want to make sure that folks online know what's going on.

[2:47:10] Trustee Luckham: And Dag, over to you.

[2:47:11] Voice 37: Yeah, you didn't ask for comments or discussion.

[2:47:16] Voice 37: and my hand was up and then you went to a vote

[2:47:19] Voice 37: before I took my comment.

[2:47:22] Trustee Luckham: Okay, let's hear your comments.

[2:47:24] Voice 37: Well, I just feel like we're not...

[2:47:29] Voice 37: To me, the central issue is trust or lack of trust

[2:47:32] Voice 37: in what we're doing and how we talk about things

[2:47:34] Voice 37: and how we arrive at things.

[2:47:36] Voice 37: This is increasing that...

[2:47:40] Voice 37: We're increasing the suspicion that we are not trustworthy

[2:47:44] Voice 37: by going into in-camera again.

[2:47:47] Voice 37: to discuss the very thing that people want to know what's going on so it just seems like a

[2:47:52] Voice 37: foolish decision to me and i just want to say that thank you so

[2:47:57] Trustee Luckham: i'm going to turn to the legislative

[2:47:58] Trustee Luckham: services manager director um to respond to that

[2:48:03] Voice 7: yeah so the concern is that um because we're

[2:48:06] Voice 7: talking about specific legal opinions the only way council can discuss whether or not it wants

[2:48:12] Voice 7: to release that information

[2:48:13] Voice 7: or have a public-facing paper written about it,

[2:48:17] Voice 7: we need to be in camera.

[2:48:19] Voice 7: So it just can't be done in open meeting,

[2:48:21] Voice 7: but you can certainly rise and report after.

[2:48:23] Voice 7: The reason why you went in camera

[2:48:25] Voice 7: and the results of the discussion.

[2:48:30] Trustee Luckham: So thank you for the concern.

[2:48:33] Trustee Luckham: I think the vote stands,

[2:48:36] Trustee Luckham: and so that's carried.

[2:48:39] Trustee Luckham: We're going to continue on

[2:48:40] Trustee Luckham: with the other business today.

[2:48:44] Trustee Luckham: 11 21 i i'm i'm thinking that at this juncture i don't really want to break up the uh policy

[2:48:54] Trustee Luckham: statement amendment project which is set up for after lunch we're at 11 20 we do have some consent

[2:49:01] Trustee Luckham: agenda items uh we created some space by not having the strategic plan discussion um let's go

[2:49:09] Trustee Luckham: go through the trust let's start trust area services and and then uh determine whether

[2:49:15] Trustee Luckham: or not there's other items we might uh be well off to advance before our lunch so the trust area

[2:49:21] Trustee Luckham: services items um are on page 130 of your agenda and their consent agenda items director trust

[2:49:32] Trustee Luckham: area services report and the legislative monitoring uh briefing um are there any questions on either

[2:49:40] Trustee Luckham: of those items trustee evans that

[2:49:43] Trustee Evans: question i thought that there was um a new business added in

[2:49:47] Trustee Evans: uh just before section seven was i incorrect in in hearing that at the beginning of the meeting

[2:49:55] Trustee Luckham: i honestly don't recall what was the potential new business there was some conversation there

[2:50:00] Trustee Luckham: there

[2:50:01] Trustee Evans: was something that was to be discussed in camera i might have got the section wrong

[2:50:06] Trustee Luckham: okay

[2:50:07] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Does anybody have a recollection on that?

[2:50:12] Trustee Luckham: We can certainly pick it up in camera

[2:50:13] Trustee Luckham: if that's where it needs to be picked up

[2:50:15] Trustee Luckham: and we'll maybe get that conversation just reviewed.

[2:50:20] Trustee Luckham: There was something,

[2:50:21] Trustee Luckham: but it seemed like it was advanced in a different way.

[2:50:25] Trustee Luckham: So with respect to section seven,

[2:50:28] Trustee Luckham: Director of Trust Area Services report

[2:50:29] Trustee Luckham: and the legislative monitoring,

[2:50:32] Trustee Luckham: Director Feder, do you want to say any,

[2:50:35] Trustee Luckham: provide any remarks on your report?

[2:50:37] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Director Fraser. I think it's important to hear from staff about the important work that's going on in their areas. Go ahead.

[2:50:51] Trustee Luckham: Thank

[2:50:51] Voice 9: you, Chair. I will assume that all have read the report. I'll just note that the department continues to be very busy, lacking a program coordinator at this stage, and also providing, as director, I'm also providing more support than typically to the Alamstress Conservancy.

[2:51:06] Voice 9: so we continue to have capacity issues within the department resulting in delays to some of

[2:51:11] Voice 9: the requests made of made of us but we are doing our best and hoping to advance all the good work

[2:51:16] Voice 9: as best we can okay

[2:51:19] Trustee Luckham: thank you very much for all of your work and your team any questions no and

[2:51:26] Trustee Luckham: so again legislative monitoring report we're satisfied with that to receive it for information

[2:51:31] Trustee Luckham: so then let's do that i'm just looking at the agenda here i think i'm going to advance

[2:51:36] Trustee Luckham: through beyond Committee of the Whole,

[2:51:40] Trustee Luckham: unless I'll turn to Trustee Elliott,

[2:51:43] Trustee Luckham: who's going to chair the Committee of the Whole.

[2:51:44] Trustee Luckham: Do you want to pick that conversation up now,

[2:51:46] Trustee Luckham: have a break in the middle, and then continue after lunch?

[2:51:52] Trustee Elliott: I'm at the pleasure of counsel.

[2:51:55] Trustee Elliott: Are you wanting to dive into it now?

[2:51:57] Trustee Elliott: It's a fairly short section that we're going to debate.

[2:52:01] Trustee Elliott: Objective 3 has about seven policies.

[2:52:06] Trustee Elliott: So I don't want us to hit our stride and then go for lunch.

[2:52:10] Trustee Elliott: But we certainly could.

[2:52:12] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, I would suggest we've got a good half an hour.

[2:52:17] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, we've got a good half an hour to start that conversation and we can pause at an appropriate time, have a rest and come back and finish it.

[2:52:25] Trustee Luckham: Is that all right with council?

[2:52:27] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[2:52:28] Trustee Luckham: So, and this is self-satisfying, and then I'm going to pass the chairing to Toby Elliott.

[2:52:37] Trustee Luckham: I'll pick one.

[2:52:39] Voice 26: That's correct.

[2:52:40] Trustee Luckham: One, seven, two.

[2:52:44] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. 7.2. Yeah. Committee of the Whole, which was intended.

[2:52:50] Trustee Luckham: Claire, go ahead.

[2:52:54] Voice 9: If I might, Chair, there are a number of items. 7.2.1 is on your agenda today, along with 7.2.2, which are intended for decisions of Council.

[2:53:02] Voice 9: So these would be matters to be dealt with by Trust Council in advance of moving into the Committee of the Whole, which is intended to talk about the content of the policy statement.

[2:53:09] Voice 9: So there are

[2:53:11] Voice 9: decisions required of council and you're not making decisions with the Committee of the Whole. Therefore, I would suggest you remain in council as council for the decisions before you. It's in items 7.1.2 and 7.2.2.

[2:53:25] Trustee Luckham: Perfect. I was confusing those two items with the Committee of the Whole. My apologies, council. So indeed, we have 7.2.1 on page 172 of our package.

[2:53:37] Trustee Luckham: Pidge? No, that's all right. I was the one that set you up for that. So apologies. Page 172.

[2:53:50] Trustee Luckham: So Director Frater, do you wish to address this request for decision to council? And then we'll

[2:53:56] Trustee Luckham: go to questions and discussion.

[2:53:59] Voice 9: Thank you, Chair. I'd be pleased to. So this request for decision

[2:54:02] Voice 9: brings you back proposed revisions to the draft items just policy statement. These advance

[2:54:07] Voice 9: recommendations from the Committee of the Whole to the body of Trust Council

[2:54:11] Voice 9: as the decision-making body. You'll note that they provide language changes

[2:54:17] Voice 9: throughout the document to enhance clarity and accuracy and also advance

[2:54:21] Voice 9: changes that ensure clarity regarding the jurisdiction of Islands Trust

[2:54:26] Voice 9: Council. Within that we've also advanced a number of other small changes our

[2:54:32] Voice 9: Executive Committee has relating to small islands and islets which was a

[2:54:36] Voice 9: a previous recommendation of the committee of the whole so it's with council today to determine if

[2:54:41] Voice 9: it would like to accept these recommendations and these proposed changes if that's the case then we

[2:54:46] Voice 9: would bring this afternoon when you move into committee of the whole we'll bring the clean

[2:54:49] Voice 9: version online as being the one that you then review and talk to it is within council's authority

[2:54:54] Voice 9: to accept these changes or make additional changes or whatever might be appropriate and i would note

[2:55:00] Voice 9: that there is a trajectory of many more conversations to come this is not an end point

[2:55:04] Voice 9: this is but one stop along the way as you amend and craft this document into what it is that you

[2:55:09] Voice 9: want to have that will be your interpretation of how you implement the mandate so i'll leave it

[2:55:14] Voice 9: there there's um a full briefing in front of you and i'd be happy to take any questions

[2:55:21] Trustee Luckham: uh david mod the questions so

[2:55:24] Trustee Evans: i guess i'm going to ask a process question here there i noticed

[2:55:27] Trustee Evans: that there was a number of things from our previous uh meeting that haven't been addressed

[2:55:32] Trustee Evans: in this version so before accepting the edits as done because some of them haven't been done do we

[2:55:39] Trustee Evans: hold off on providing that feedback but when we go back into committee of the whole or do we discuss

[2:55:46] Trustee Evans: those elements now for a clean version when we get in there okay

[2:55:54] Voice 9: if i might i i would recommend

[2:55:55] Voice 9: the you know for the ease of the conversation it might behoove you to pass this now and then have

[2:56:01] Voice 9: your deliberative discussions in committee of the whole if you feel there's something easy to bring

[2:56:06] Voice 9: forward at this point you'd like to make a decision on now but you have decided to strike committee of

[2:56:10] Voice 9: the whole to enable that deliberation um in a thoughtful way but it really is at your discretion

[2:56:15] Voice 9: if you have amendments you'd like to propose now that are worthy certainly you

[2:56:20] Trustee Evans: can bring them

[2:56:20] Trustee Evans: forward so again just for clarity for my own silly brain um so by approving this we are not precluding

[2:56:30] Trustee Evans: including ourselves from bringing back and bringing back up again things that haven't

[2:56:35] Trustee Evans: been addressed.

[2:56:38] Voice 25: Trustee Bernardo?

[2:56:39] Voice 2: Yeah.

[2:56:41] Voice 25: That's fine.

[2:56:42] Voice 25: Oh, sorry.

[2:56:43] Voice 25: Sorry.

[2:56:44] Voice 25: Go.

[2:56:49] Voice 9: Sorry if I was unclear.

[2:56:50] Voice 9: Yes, that is the entire intent.

[2:56:52] Voice 9: I expect you have months ahead of making changes to this document, and no change now precludes

[2:56:57] Voice 9: any further changes.

[2:57:01] Voice 22: This may be redundant, but perhaps Director Prater can just confirm this.

[2:57:05] Voice 22: My understanding is, as a committee of the whole, we can make recommendations to the Draft Council, but we can't actually make changes to the draft.

[2:57:14] Voice 22: So this is just carrying forward what we, I think, what we agreed as a committee of the whole, so that we actually have a revised working draft.

[2:57:23] Voice 22: And that's all we have is a working draft.

[2:57:25] Voice 22: We could, you know, depending on where the discussion goes, even these changes, we might go back and fiddle with those.

[2:57:31] Voice 22: Have I got that right?

[2:57:32] Voice 39: Correct.

[2:57:32] Voice 39: Correct.

[2:57:33] Voice 22: And if I'm right about that, it seems to me this is a housekeeping thing we're going to be doing every time we do some work,

[2:57:39] Voice 22: because we need to have a clean draft that shows up for the next committee of the whole meeting, right?

[2:57:43] Voice 22: Absolutely. That's why it's here.

[2:57:45] Voice 22: Well, I move we do this. This is basic.

[2:57:51] Trustee Luckham: Okay. So you're making the motion that's included in the...

[2:57:54] Voice 32: I move that Trust Council approve the proposed revisions to the Draft Islands Trust Policy Statement in Appendix 1.

[2:58:00] Trustee Luckham: Perfect. Thank you. Do I have a seconder?

[2:58:01] Trustee Luckham: Toby Elliott. Thank you.

[2:58:03] Trustee Luckham: any further discussion all those in favor and everybody online you're with us

[2:58:14] Voice 26: okay

[2:58:15] Trustee Luckham: please hands down hands down yeah any opposed one opposed thank you

[2:58:27] Trustee Luckham: okay that carries um there is a second element to this um at 7.2.2 uh director fader do you want to

[2:58:36] Trustee Luckham: to speak to it.

[2:58:38] Voice 9: Thank you. Well, the last decision was around the content of the document.

[2:58:41] Voice 9: This request for decision is about how you administer the project that leads to the

[2:58:46] Voice 9: amendment of the document. So with this, Executive Committee is bringing you a revised project

[2:58:51] Voice 9: charter with a revised timeline in it that reflects some of the delays and extension of

[2:58:56] Voice 9: timeline that we've had in recent months. And also there's a recommendation of Executive Committee

[2:59:02] Voice 9: to authorize additional spending in this fiscal year to support additional work that's being

[2:59:07] Voice 9: displaced by the policy statement in addition you'll see there's a detailed work plan that

[2:59:12] Voice 9: was requested by trust council for your review that outlines all the steps we are taking

[2:59:16] Voice 9: to advance the project i will leave it there generally but i'm happy to answer questions

[2:59:23] Trustee Luckham: trustee evan um

[2:59:26] Trustee Evans: on the project on the policy statement management project project charter

[2:59:31] Trustee Evans: order on page 235. The proposed next steps, the initial one, a proven principle by Trust

[2:59:39] Trustee Evans: Council January 2024. Is that correct?

[2:59:50] Voice 9: I'm sorry, I'm just catching up with here. If you could point me to the exact spot I'm

[2:59:53] Voice 9: hearing from staff in the corner here, it should have been 25, but I'm afraid I didn't

[2:59:56] Voice 9: track with you exactly.

[3:00:00] Voice 9: yeah if i could get you to restate it just so i can find the exact reference it may be a typo

[3:00:10] Trustee Evans: thanks um so the third box down just yeah so move the cursor over to the dates

[3:00:20] Trustee Evans: up a little bit uh down a little bit that one where it says 2024 i think there should be 2025.

[3:00:28] Trustee Evans: Oh, yeah.

[3:00:29] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[3:00:30] Trustee Luckham: Director Federer?

[3:00:31] Trustee Luckham: Agreed.

[3:00:32] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[3:00:32] Trustee Luckham: That'll be corrected.

[3:00:33] Trustee Evans: Okay.

[3:00:34] Trustee Evans: And then my next question is surrounding the delay, not necessarily delay, but the gap

[3:00:40] Trustee Evans: between January 2025 and the six-month public engagement not initiating until May of that

[3:00:46] Trustee Evans: year.

[3:00:47] Trustee Evans: Is there a reason for January, December, January, February, March, April, May, the five-month

[3:00:51] Trustee Evans: delay?

[3:00:52] Trustee Evans: Why do we have such a long period in between?

[3:00:56] Trustee Evans: between.

[3:00:59] Voice 9: Yes, happy to speak to that. As you can see in the detailed work plan, planning for

[3:01:04] Voice 9: a major public engagement takes time. We have to go through procurement to secure the consultants

[3:01:09] Voice 9: that we might want to engage. We would need to go ahead with booking all the venues. We need to

[3:01:15] Voice 9: engage with local trust committees around what their preferences might be for how they wish to

[3:01:18] Voice 9: undertake that engagement. So that gives us the lead time to undertake all that work. And then,

[3:01:23] Voice 9: of course, we need to undertake all the promotion to your community. And many of your communities

[3:01:26] Voice 9: only have monthly publications so there's a you know an ad placement logistics that are need to

[3:01:33] Voice 9: be undertaken that lead to that time frame is

[3:01:37] Trustee Evans: it possible to do any of that work in advance in order

[3:01:40] Trustee Evans: to keep the time frame a little closer without

[3:01:46] Voice 9: certainty of the content of the document it is

[3:01:49] Voice 9: certainly challenging to craft engagement materials with around it so and also without

[3:01:55] Voice 9: certainty of when council might reach conclusion of its deliberations it is challenging for us to

[3:02:00] Voice 9: to do that detailed planning in advance of that work so i'm afraid we will move ahead on what we

[3:02:05] Voice 9: can but we are somewhat constrained okay

[3:02:08] Trustee Luckham: any further discussion could i get a motion

[3:02:14] Trustee Luckham: go ahead i

[3:02:17] Trustee Evans: move that islands trust council endorsed policy statement amendment project

[3:02:20] Trustee Evans: charter version 9 as

[3:02:22] Trustee Luckham: amended as amended

[3:02:25] Trustee Luckham: susan yates seconding thank you uh any discussion

[3:02:30] Trustee Luckham: Okay, all those in favor?

[3:02:45] Voice 7: All 20 in favor.

[3:02:46] Trustee Luckham: Okay, hands down all around.

[3:02:50] Trustee Luckham: All right, any opposed?

[3:02:55] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Ben.

[3:02:56] Trustee Luckham: Oh, two opposed.

[3:02:57] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, let's get our hands up.

[3:02:58] Trustee Luckham: Okay, two opposed.

[3:03:00] Trustee Luckham: That carries.

[3:03:01] Trustee Luckham: Thank

[3:03:01] Voice 23: you very much.

[3:03:02] Trustee Luckham: Second motion.

[3:03:03] Voice 23: Go ahead.

[3:03:04] Voice 23: Could I please have the opposition recorded?

[3:03:06] Voice 23: Yes.

[3:03:07] Voice 23: To those last two votes, please.

[3:03:13] Voice 23: Second motion.

[3:03:14] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[3:03:15] Trustee Evans: I move that Islands Trust Council approve additional spending of up to $40,000 in the

[3:03:20] Trustee Evans: 2024-25 budget to support the work of the trust area services and advancement of the policy

[3:03:25] Trustee Evans: statement project move

[3:03:28] Trustee Luckham: to have a seconder tim peterson thank you is there any discussion

[3:03:33] Trustee Luckham: okay all those in favor

[3:03:34] Voice 28: thank

[3:03:46] Trustee Luckham: you please lower your hands okay any opposed two opposed

[3:03:55] Voice 26: and

[3:03:56] Trustee Luckham: one on line three opposed okay great so at council i just want to say thank you and i know

[3:04:02] Trustee Luckham: I know that you've really helped Director Frater

[3:04:05] Trustee Luckham: continue her work program over and above

[3:04:08] Trustee Luckham: the policy statement.

[3:04:10] Trustee Luckham: And it's very much appreciated that you've contributed

[3:04:13] Trustee Luckham: these dollars to support that work.

[3:04:16] Trustee Luckham: All right, that concludes that section.

[3:04:19] Trustee Luckham: And now I've been handed a motion here.

[3:04:21] Trustee Luckham: So I'm simply gonna make the motion

[3:04:23] Trustee Luckham: to go into committee a whole,

[3:04:24] Trustee Luckham: because I don't know that anybody else has it.

[3:04:26] Trustee Luckham: That I move that trust council will resolve itself

[3:04:28] Trustee Luckham: as a committee of the whole, full stop.

[3:04:31] Trustee Luckham: off. Do I have a seconder? Trustee Bernard, I'll recognize. Okay. So then all those in favor?

[3:04:40] Trustee Luckham: That carries. And that's it. Nice warm-up exercise. Over to Toby Elliott.

[3:04:50] Trustee Luckham: And this is a separate agenda.

[3:04:54] Trustee Elliott: So do we all have the agenda? Maybe give you a few minutes to

[3:04:58] Trustee Elliott: assemble yourselves. Yeah. So it was a separate materials.

[3:05:11] Trustee Elliott: Is it possible to get

[3:05:13] Trustee Luckham: that agenda on the screen, Rory?

[3:05:17] Trustee Luckham: I'm getting shut up, sorry.

[3:05:20] Voice 26: Oh, dear.

[3:05:22] Voice 26: Wonderful.

[3:05:54] Trustee Elliott: Everyone with us?

[3:05:56] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[3:05:57] Trustee Elliott: So this is a new meeting, and I'd like to call the meeting to order.

[3:06:03] Trustee Elliott: We'll start with, as always, a territorial acknowledgement that we are meeting here today in the lands of Snunemex First Nation.

[3:06:10] Trustee Elliott: We are grateful for their stewardship of these lands and waters, and particularly with regard to the content of this, the policy statement, which is going to inform all of our OCPs and the bylaws that we will create together.

[3:06:26] Trustee Elliott: together. So with no further ado, I'd like to approve the agenda, but amend it to add one piece

[3:06:35] Trustee Elliott: of new business with your support. So who will chair the next committee of the whole? We have

[3:06:46] Trustee Elliott: one chair remaining. Thank you, Vice Chair Peterson, for Thursday, October 3rd. So in new business,

[3:06:53] Trustee Elliott: this, we'll just add future submissions of interest for chairing future committee of the

[3:06:59] Trustee Elliott: halls, if that's okay. So by general consent, we'll adopt the agenda as amended. So we've got

[3:07:08] Trustee Elliott: item 3.1, the updated draft policy statement with potential additional revisions. And so could we

[3:07:18] Trustee Elliott: We have the clean draft on screen.

[3:07:25] Trustee Elliott: And I'll turn to staff.

[3:07:27] Trustee Elliott: Jason, did you have any opening remarks?

[3:07:30] Trustee Elliott: No.

[3:07:32] Trustee Elliott: Well, excellent.

[3:07:35] Trustee Elliott: Well, then, just give us a moment to get that up on screen.

[3:07:54] Trustee Elliott: So pages 208 in your agenda,

[3:07:57] Trustee Elliott: there is a clean copy that has all the amendments

[3:08:03] Trustee Elliott: from the previous redlined version.

[3:08:19] Trustee Elliott: I just have 208. Thank you.

[3:08:23] Trustee Elliott: Could

[3:08:31] Voice 22: the Chair clarify, when you say it's a clean version of the red line,

[3:08:34] Voice 22: this is the version that we just, in our Trust Council capacity,

[3:08:38] Voice 22: agreed we should be discussing today? Okay.

[3:08:41] Trustee Elliott: That's correct. So in a previous Committee of the Whole, which was mostly in-camera,

[3:08:46] Trustee Elliott: we made some changes to address the jurisdiction

[3:08:50] Trustee Elliott: clarity and to include

[3:08:53] Trustee Elliott: include protection of islets and so the red line version of that to show the changes

[3:09:00] Trustee Elliott: and now we're looking at a clean copy

[3:09:03] Voice 26: could

[3:09:07] Trustee Elliott: i have a volunteer to keep a speaker's list as well

[3:09:10] Trustee Elliott: please okay

[3:09:14] Voice 16: thank you

[3:09:17] Trustee Elliott: vice chair mod so we'll follow the same format um i i considered two

[3:09:24] Trustee Elliott: approaches to this, and maybe you could indicate which one would be better, is to tackle, so we're

[3:09:31] Trustee Elliott: in part three, section 3.3, objective three, preserving and protecting healthy and biodiverse

[3:09:39] Trustee Elliott: ecosystems. This could be a fairly short conversation. There's seven policies. And there

[3:09:48] Trustee Elliott: are, of course, other items that we can move to. But because the intent was to address the policy

[3:09:54] Trustee Elliott: statement in a sequential order. I propose that we start here, and then if we have more time,

[3:10:00] Trustee Elliott: we can move to other sections, the glossary, the guiding principles. You have a question,

[3:10:05] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Evans?

[3:10:07] Trustee Evans: I'd like to propose that we revisit the work that was done to make sure that all of

[3:10:11] Trustee Evans: the edits have been captured as I've identified areas that that hasn't happened from when we were

[3:10:19] Trustee Evans: working in the previous iteration.

[3:10:24] Trustee Elliott: So I'd have to turn to staff because my understanding was that

[3:10:28] Trustee Elliott: the edits were captured. If you have anything that you're concerned was not captured, perhaps

[3:10:35] Trustee Elliott: you could identify it.

[3:10:41] Trustee Evans: Do you want me to start or what are we doing?

[3:10:50] Voice 36: If we're going through

[3:10:51] Voice 36: possible revisions, that seems more clerical than policy driven. So if we could, I think there's

[3:11:19] Voice 36: enough people keeping track of both previous revisions and the ones that will come out of

[3:11:23] Voice 36: this and we can double check this is another version that we're working with.

[3:11:33] Voice 9: I've just spoken

[3:11:33] Voice 9: with trustee evans her concern is not relating to objective three so maybe if you wanted to

[3:11:38] Voice 9: move ahead with discussing objective three we might be able to work with her over lunch to

[3:11:41] Voice 9: identify where there might have been some discrepancies excellent

[3:11:48] Voice 16: that would be good

[3:11:49] Voice 16: oh yes trustee evans i have some suggestions for section three surprise surprise so

[3:11:57] Trustee Elliott: to frame this

[3:11:57] Trustee Elliott: discussion i've considered two approaches um we could establish which of these policies there's

[3:12:04] Trustee Elliott: consensus around no challenge to and then move to ones in which there's going to be changes if

[3:12:10] Trustee Elliott: all of them we've got changes to suggest we can move through them one at a time but i'd like to

[3:12:15] Trustee Elliott: some agreement on how to work through the process are there any of these policies 3.3.1 to 3.3.7

[3:12:25] Trustee Elliott: that we're all in agreement with i guess it would be pretty hard to canvas

[3:12:30] Trustee Elliott: this trustee getty the

[3:12:34] Voice 36: only comment that i had with respect to the changes that we made to the

[3:12:38] Voice 36: 2.3 the reconciliation principles we took out the large tables but i think that there's valuable

[3:12:45] Voice 36: information there that um you know we're um we've said that we're taking guidance from the various

[3:12:51] Voice 36: commissions and and the findings of the um the commissions and i think that it's important that

[3:12:58] Voice 36: that for me, it's important that those stay somehow in the document.

[3:13:02] Voice 36: And perhaps if we can consider some sort of an addendum at the end,

[3:13:11] Voice 36: some way that there's a specific reference to those findings.

[3:13:14] Voice 36: I think they're strong and important and should be included.

[3:13:18] Voice 36: If not, certainly not in the body.

[3:13:20] Voice 36: And I get that this section that we've got on page 214 of our agenda

[3:13:25] Voice 36: is much more precise and concise.

[3:13:27] Voice 36: But I would find it helpful if we had an appendix or an addendum that had the tables back in.

[3:13:37] Trustee Elliott: So just to clarify, we are going to come back to other elements after we've discussed Objective 3.

[3:13:45] Trustee Elliott: So that was the purpose of today is to actually go through these policies.

[3:13:49] Trustee Elliott: We can come back to those other.

[3:13:51] Trustee Elliott: We've got two and a half hours even after lunch.

[3:13:54] Trustee Elliott: So we want to make some progress.

[3:13:56] Trustee Elliott: so but perhaps I'll ask the question in another way which of these seven policies would we like

[3:14:05] Trustee Elliott: to discuss first you want to go through them one at a time

[3:14:07] Trustee Evans: I'd like

[3:14:10] Trustee Elliott: to start with the top box

[3:14:11] Trustee Elliott: in objective three and then go through them one by one okay so can we have a speaker's list on

[3:14:17] Trustee Elliott: the first policy just everyone put up your hands you want to speak to it one the thank you

[3:14:31] Trustee Luckham: okay

[3:14:32] Trustee Elliott: Okay. So on the introduction, who would like to speak to this introduction? A total show of hands, please. Just trustee Evans. Thank you.

[3:14:48] Trustee Evans: One thing that I'd like to bring forward is the first statement says the objective advances principle 2.1.2 and then in brackets prioritize environmental protection.

[3:14:58] Trustee Evans: action um this brings us back to a discussion that we had regarding the um the mandate where

[3:15:07] Trustee Evans: we specified that we would not prioritize one element over another environment um

[3:15:14] Trustee Evans: the economy and community so i would like to strike the word prioritize

[3:15:22] Trustee Evans: and or or actually just um strike like i i don't really know how to do this but maybe

[3:15:29] Trustee Evans: you strike that stuff that's in the brackets and just leave trust council acknowledges are

[3:15:33] Trustee Evans: preserving and protecting ecological integrity of the trust islands is essential because that's

[3:15:39] Trustee Evans: in conflict to our previous agreement so

[3:15:45] Trustee Elliott: trustee evans you're referring to page 213 if we go to

[3:15:50] Trustee Elliott: the guiding principles and priorities 2.1.2 no i'm

[3:15:57] Trustee Evans: referring to our conversation regarding the

[3:15:59] Trustee Evans: the Section 3 mandate that we had.

[3:16:03] Trustee Elliott: I understand, but the introduction of that policy refers to

[3:16:06] Trustee Elliott: 2.1.2, which is Prioritize Environmental and Indigenous Cultural Heritage Protection.

[3:16:20] Voice 16: Where are you referring to?

[3:16:27] Trustee Elliott: I'm suggesting that in order to go back and address Principle 2.1.2,

[3:16:32] Trustee Elliott: which is in the statement there, Prioritize Environmental Protection, we need to revisit

[3:16:37] Trustee Elliott: that principle. Is that where you'd like to go?

[3:16:41] Trustee Evans: You said that we weren't going to go backwards,

[3:16:42] Trustee Evans: so i'm dealing with objective three box here i know so what i'm what i recommend is that be a

[3:16:55] Trustee Evans: wholesale throughout the document change not just this one particular area

[3:17:00] Trustee Elliott: well that's a large

[3:17:02] Trustee Elliott: conversation so if we want to have that conversation now does council wish to prioritize

[3:17:09] Trustee Elliott: environmental protection which will affect principle 2.1.2 we can start there what i'm

[3:17:20] Trustee Evans: saying is we had this discussion during our mandate and we came to consensus during our

[3:17:25] Trustee Evans: mandate discussion on section three that we would not prioritize one above the other so that's that's

[3:17:33] Trustee Evans: my to be

[3:17:38] Voice 23: clear we did not have consensus i opposed any changes to the original document

[3:17:43] Voice 23: i've read this document we did our um our work with first nations to design this document

[3:17:53] Voice 23: document, and I supported the document as it was at the beginning. So there will be no consensus

[3:17:58] Voice 23: on any changes to this document moving forward. However, I gave some thought to one part of it,

[3:18:06] Voice 23: and it drew some discussion. And if you give me a little bit of leeway here, it might go off a

[3:18:12] Voice 23: little bit topic a little bit. There was some discussion around colonization and the definition

[3:18:16] Voice 23: of colonization. And so I gave that some thought onto why just the one definition was in there,

[3:18:24] Voice 23: and why there wasn't a definition for decolonization.

[3:18:28] Voice 23: And further to that, why there wasn't a definition for a decolonization plan.

[3:18:34] Voice 23: To me, without those two elements, working on any directive policies is kind of mute.

[3:18:42] Voice 23: But I understand the will of this council to move ahead and to make changes to this document as they see fit.

[3:18:52] Voice 23: But I do want to be very clear.

[3:18:54] Voice 23: there is no consensus to changes in this document in this room if

[3:19:08] Voice 9: i might i just want to read from

[3:19:10] Voice 9: the council's statement just to inform this conversation around the prioritization piece

[3:19:15] Voice 9: so it says that there must be council's determination is that every decision must

[3:19:20] Voice 9: include a reasoned recognition of all the elements in the mandate and while one element

[3:19:25] Voice 9: may gain priority reasons for that decision should be clear and have considered the other elements

[3:19:30] Voice 9: So certainly should council wish to assign a priority weighting to a theme in the policy statement, it can do so.

[3:19:37] Voice 9: It's really at council, this is your document, and this is your set of values.

[3:19:41] Voice 9: And so while you've issued a statement explaining your understanding of the object, it does not, as you've stated yourselves, it does not preclude you from setting out any prioritization that you might wish.

[3:19:55] Voice 25: Trustee Allenville.

[3:20:00] Voice 4: I'm confused where we're at with this whole thing

[3:20:02] Voice 4: but I did send

[3:20:05] Voice 4: First Nations

[3:20:06] Voice 4: all their comments to everybody

[3:20:08] Voice 4: and

[3:20:10] Voice 4: I'm not sure how to have this

[3:20:15] Voice 4: I don't want to go word for word with it

[3:20:17] Voice 4: but there's a lot of stuff they've mentioned

[3:20:19] Voice 4: and it's not been added

[3:20:21] Voice 4: or anything and I'm not sure how to present this

[3:20:24] Voice 4: like for instance

[3:20:25] Voice 4: in terms of local trust committees

[3:20:28] Voice 4: island municipalities

[3:20:28] Voice 4: blah blah blah

[3:20:29] Voice 4: blah, the five First Nations that have responded wanted to have Indigenous peoples as well

[3:20:37] Voice 4: in that line, Indigenous nations as decision makers. And I'm just wondering, all those

[3:20:44] Voice 4: things they've sent, are we not going to acknowledge that and put it into this document?

[3:20:56] Trustee Elliott: So I'll ask staff to make sure I stay in line here. So the discussion was held in camera

[3:21:03] Trustee Elliott: camera about our jurisdictional limitations. Speaking broadly about that, we were given advice

[3:21:16] Trustee Elliott: essentially that we cannot share or I really want to be careful here because we can't.

[3:21:25] Trustee Elliott: So were you there at the in-camera discussion to discuss this? Okay. So that is really important.

[3:21:32] Trustee Elliott: important we received legal advice on how our legislation is structured currently and based on

[3:21:41] Trustee Elliott: that legal advice these changes were made so indigenous governing bodies and first nations

[3:21:47] Trustee Elliott: have asked for certain things and we've been told we can't add that right now under our legislation

[3:21:55] Trustee Elliott: and so there has to be communication with first nations which staff has promised they will

[3:22:02] Trustee Elliott: undertake because they are in relationship and and have developed it over the course of

[3:22:07] Trustee Elliott: this policy statements development um i am confident staff will have those conversations

[3:22:13] Trustee Elliott: but at this point in time we can't include first nations as decision makers and that is the reason

[3:22:20] Trustee Elliott: council decided to request a review of the governance of the honest trust area am i correct

[3:22:29] Voice 9: so council let me know if i'm you know intruding in your discussions but i'd like to

[3:22:34] Voice 9: provide context. Yes, we will be talking with nations around the changes that you're seeing

[3:22:38] Voice 9: to the document. There are other instruments by which you can move into co-management,

[3:22:42] Voice 9: some of which you've discussed today, one of which is your existing statutory authority to

[3:22:46] Voice 9: enter protocol agreements. And we, I think, are tracking towards potentially undertaking 10 in

[3:22:52] Voice 9: the next while, which will take you a good way towards working well with those nations that you

[3:22:55] Voice 9: currently are active with. The other, as you mentioned today, is the UN declaration agreements.

[3:23:00] Voice 9: agreements i think in our conversations with nations around the changes that have happened

[3:23:03] Voice 9: to this document i will be showing them that motion to demonstrate council's intent to further

[3:23:09] Voice 9: examine pushing the boundaries and moving into that context so that's the conversation we'll

[3:23:15] Voice 9: be having with the nations around these changes is demonstrating we might be constrained within

[3:23:18] Voice 9: what this document can do but there are other ways by which we can move about improving relationship

[3:23:23] Voice 9: and having nations move into decision authority having authority with decisions with you if that's

[3:23:29] Voice 9: that's what you wish to offer.

[3:23:33] Trustee Elliott: So back to your point, Trustee Evans, and before I come back to

[3:23:38] Trustee Elliott: it, I think you have identified something that's missing. So in the reference to principle 2.1.2,

[3:23:46] Trustee Elliott: which is in on page 212, no, it's 217 is where what we're supposed to be discussing, but you're

[3:23:55] Trustee Elliott: absolutely right. We need to go back to principle 2.1.2. So if we could scroll up, Lori,

[3:24:02] Trustee Elliott: to the principal section it's on page 213 yeah so two so guiding principles and priorities

[3:24:15] Trustee Elliott: something was left out in that reference 2.1.2 states currently prioritize environmental and

[3:24:22] Trustee Elliott: indigenous cultural heritage protection and so it actually the principle that we're referring to

[3:24:31] Trustee Elliott: does include Indigenous heritage protection,

[3:24:35] Trustee Elliott: but it's not stated in Objective 3, that introduction.

[3:24:40] Trustee Elliott: Is that correct?

[3:24:43] Voice 9: That's correct, yes.

[3:24:44] Voice 9: That would be a drafting error where we combine two policies

[3:24:47] Voice 9: and forgot to address the reference to it lower in the document.

[3:24:55] Voice 25: Trustee Harris.

[3:25:01] Voice 18: Thanks.

[3:25:03] Voice 18: Well, since we've kind of the pages have been bouncing around here,

[3:25:08] Voice 18: initially I was wanting to speak about being in agreement

[3:25:12] Voice 18: with um trustee evans about um the prioritization of the environment being contradictory with um

[3:25:19] Voice 18: what trust council has decided um regarding section three but i'm going to where we are

[3:25:25] Voice 18: where i believe we are at this point about um environmental protection and uh indigenous

[3:25:32] Voice 18: cultural um i forget the exact language there but um i don't see how i'm really stunned that

[3:25:42] Voice 18: they're together it's it doesn't seem uh doesn't seem appropriate to me um a lot of this it seems

[3:25:51] Voice 18: real heavy-handed you know heavy reaching um or overreaching um some of the terms that i see in

[3:25:58] Voice 18: here are obviously quite concerning and i think it'll end up stirring quite a controversy um

[3:26:05] Voice 18: you know just in the in the the statement itself with the communities and if this was were to be

[3:26:11] Voice 18: be passed um as is um there'll just there's going to be huge fights and and uh and battles and and

[3:26:20] Voice 18: and on it goes um with uh you know property owners um but in and this you know this it's

[3:26:30] Voice 18: interesting to me because it just it dawns on me we're speaking this it's really it's a prime

[3:26:35] Voice 18: example of how the democracy deficit can have such devastating effects on the citizenry of the

[3:26:43] Voice 18: islands when that democracy deficit is clear we're asked yes we're asking for help from the province

[3:26:49] Voice 18: but we're still going

[3:26:50] Trustee Elliott: to call a point of order we are i thought

[3:26:53] Voice 18: we're just in conversation we're not

[3:26:54] Voice 18: in we're

[3:26:55] Trustee Elliott: not talking about a democracy deficit we're speaking about the policy statement trustee

[3:26:58] Trustee Elliott: harris yeah

[3:26:59] Voice 18: exactly but there's no point of order we're having an open committee of the whole this

[3:27:02] Voice 18: This completely pertains to what.

[3:27:07] Voice 18: Anyhow, so I think that some big changes need to be made.

[3:27:13] Voice 18: And will they?

[3:27:14] Voice 18: I don't know.

[3:27:17] Voice 18: The whole thing is troublesome to me.

[3:27:19] Voice 18: Thanks.

[3:27:23] Trustee Elliott: On that note, I'd like to call for lunch.

[3:27:26] Trustee Elliott: We're going to keep the speaker's list.

[3:27:27] Trustee Elliott: We've opened a really interesting discussion.

[3:27:30] Trustee Elliott: Thank you, Council.

[3:27:38] Voice 38: Thanks, Chair.

[4:29:34] Voice 31: okay council come

[4:29:37] Trustee Elliott: around the table

[4:29:45] Voice 26: i love the bell somebody's having fun that's like the coolest part

[4:30:00] Trustee Elliott: Whoever's at the table gets to debate.

[4:30:03] Voice 2: All right, council.

[4:30:16] Trustee Elliott: Thank you for an invigorating morning and welcome back.

[4:30:20] Trustee Elliott: We are in Committee of the Whole.

[4:30:23] Trustee Elliott: And as you know, we're not going to make decisions today.

[4:30:26] Trustee Elliott: This is an arena to have a good, productive discussion.

[4:30:30] Trustee Elliott: And really what we want to do is hear from all of you.

[4:30:34] Trustee Elliott: And so I will call on people and say, have we heard from anyone else? Is there anyone else who has something to say? Okay, I'd like to break up the usual pattern of who speaks first, second and third. Some of us are quick to the mic. And that's great. And we just want to accord the space and make it respectful for everyone to have their voices heard.

[4:31:00] Trustee Elliott: So it was brought to my attention that there may be some different views on where we are going to start today.

[4:31:09] Trustee Elliott: So at the end of the Committee of the Whole, which was in camera, Trustee Bernardo was chairing,

[4:31:17] Trustee Elliott: the minutes record that trustees generally agreed to start in sequential order and work through the draft policy statement.

[4:31:28] Trustee Elliott: but in my interpretation and some others we were looking at a slide that read objective three and

[4:31:36] Trustee Elliott: so I don't know if Laurie you have an example of that slide just for those who weren't in the

[4:31:40] Trustee Elliott: meeting we're going to put it on screen and I'll be asking you if we can make a decision on where

[4:31:46] Trustee Elliott: to start today we can start right at the very beginning which is what some members were

[4:31:51] Trustee Elliott: are expecting, or we can start at objective three. So just give a minute for that. So this was

[4:32:01] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Bernardo brought forward a, how can we move through the discussion? Do we want to talk

[4:32:07] Trustee Elliott: in sequential order and just go to third slide, I think? Five. Thank you. It's getting there.

[4:32:19] Trustee Elliott: Right. So this, oh, thanks. So this had been the direction that I was going off of, that at September Trust Council, we're going to work through Objective 3. And some others have a different interpretation. So my suggestion is that we take a straw poll. And if the majority wants to go from the very beginning, we can do that, or we can start at Objective 3.

[4:32:46] Trustee Elliott: Does that sound good? So all those in favor of starting at the very beginning of the policy statement and working our way through, could you please raise your hand?

[4:33:07] Trustee Elliott: Three, four, and two online. Thank you. And those who want to start at Objective 3 and work from there, raise your hands.

[4:33:20] Trustee Elliott: those who want to start

[4:33:22] Trustee Elliott: at

[4:33:22] Voice 26: objective

[4:33:24] Trustee Elliott: three and work

[4:33:26] Trustee Elliott: through please raise your hands

[4:33:28] Trustee Elliott: five

[4:33:29] Voice 26: seven eight

[4:33:32] Voice 26: we

[4:33:32] Trustee Elliott: need to do it again

[4:33:33] Trustee Elliott: four

[4:33:35] Voice 26: five

[4:33:36] Voice 26: six

[4:33:40] Voice 26: I see eleven

[4:33:44] Voice 26: okay

[4:33:47] Voice 26: so that one kind of wins

[4:33:49] Trustee Elliott: kind of right let's drop all

[4:33:51] Trustee Elliott: it's

[4:33:52] Voice 37: unclear what happens

[4:33:54] Voice 37: if we start at objective three what happens to what's before that we

[4:34:01] Trustee Elliott: will be debating

[4:34:02] Trustee Elliott: everything in the policy statement until council is satisfied and has reached an agreement in

[4:34:08] Trustee Elliott: principle i guess the thinking was is that we've spent a lot of time in camera on items you know

[4:34:17] Trustee Elliott: on the preamble and objective one and two and it'll be good if we can get some more discussion

[4:34:25] Trustee Elliott: in the public realm on these other substantial pieces and then we can return at any point and

[4:34:33] Trustee Elliott: council could decide at the end of or committee the whole could decide at the end of today

[4:34:37] Trustee Elliott: that we want to um go back to the beginning at the next committee of the whole would that be

[4:34:43] Trustee Elliott: be satisfactory Christina

[4:34:48] Trustee Evans: just for clarity so if we start at objective three now we can't discuss

[4:34:55] Trustee Evans: um the first the prioritize section in there because that belongs in section two correct

[4:35:00] Trustee Evans: it

[4:35:03] Trustee Elliott: since it refers to uh the guiding principles I would say we we could definitely debate that

[4:35:10] Trustee Elliott: we can go back to that section 2.1.2 because you're right it refers to that so yeah I'd be

[4:35:17] Trustee Elliott: be happy to have that discussion today why don't you start us off christina i

[4:35:25] Trustee Evans: think i've already

[4:35:26] Trustee Evans: said kind of what i was going to say earlier um and it relates to the conversations that we had

[4:35:33] Trustee Evans: in camera regarding um not prioritizing one thing over another because if we do prioritize it in the

[4:35:43] Trustee Evans: trust policy statement that means it's also prioritized in our ocps which means it's also

[4:35:48] Trustee Evans: prioritized in our bylaws because those things all have to remain in alignment and that's where

[4:35:53] Trustee Evans: i'm having a struggle prioritizing the environment and in in like here like first nations are also

[4:36:01] Trustee Evans: grouped together in that in the principles but not grouped together in objective three so there

[4:36:07] Trustee Evans: i'm having a hard time with that um i would like to remove the word prioritize and allow the ocps

[4:36:15] Trustee Evans: and the local trust committees to have some autonomy

[4:36:19] Trustee Evans: as to where priorities have to lay when decisions come down.

[4:36:24] Trustee Evans: But if we put it here, we've taken that away from them,

[4:36:27] Trustee Evans: as I understand.

[4:36:30] Trustee Elliott: So excellent question.

[4:36:31] Trustee Elliott: And I'm going to turn to staff because we've had some discussion

[4:36:35] Trustee Elliott: but maybe not enough articulation about what is a guiding principle

[4:36:40] Trustee Elliott: and is it directive?

[4:36:42] Trustee Elliott: directive will it constrain your community's ocps to follow that principle or can it be

[4:36:50] Trustee Elliott: interpreted in a different way so could we have some clarity on that director sermac were you

[4:36:55] Trustee Elliott: positioned to speak on that director freighter's not here oh you're there hi so

[4:37:03] Voice 9: if you if we go

[4:37:05] Voice 9: to the top of the document we define what the guiding principles are but essentially they're

[4:37:09] Voice 9: informative to counsel they're a statement of your values and your beliefs they are not directive

[4:37:13] Voice 9: effective policies that drive the content of official community plans and land use bylaws.

[4:37:20] Voice 9: So if we go up, if you scroll down here, we can, I want to make sure you're familiar with this

[4:37:24] Voice 9: document. As we go down a little bit further, please, Lori, keep going. I'll tell you when to

[4:37:32] Voice 9: stop. All right, we're going to have to keep going. Shortly we'll arrive where the policies

[4:37:39] Voice 9: are defined and I'll spell them out for you. All right, a little bit further. There we are. Types

[4:37:44] Voice 9: of policies. So guiding principles, if we can make it a little bit bigger. The number one there is

[4:37:48] Voice 9: what we're hoping to read. So a guiding principle, and again this is for you to determine if this

[4:37:53] Voice 9: definition works for you. A guiding principle is intended to establish a general commitments of

[4:37:58] Voice 9: trust council that center the trust object in all daily decision making across the island's trust

[4:38:03] Voice 9: by island trust bodies that are bound by the policy statement. So it's a general commitment

[4:38:08] Voice 9: and it's for you as decision makers to determine for yourselves how you'd like to apply that.

[4:38:13] Voice 9: I will note your current policy statement has both a commitment and a directive related to

[4:38:20] Voice 9: prioritization.

[4:38:22] Voice 37: Thank you. Can we have that screen up for the online participants, please?

[4:38:28] Trustee Elliott: Sure. It's page 212 in your current agenda there, Trustee Falk. On this topic, we've got a speaker's

[4:38:49] Trustee Elliott: list, and I'll turn to Chair Maud. Trustee Graham.

[4:38:54] Voice 38: Thank you. Thank you, Chair, and thank you,

[4:38:58] Voice 38: to everyone having had a good lunch.

[4:39:01] Voice 38: And I was really troubled that we were having this conversation.

[4:39:07] Voice 38: It's always been my understanding of the trust

[4:39:10] Voice 38: and the work that I've done as a chair

[4:39:12] Voice 38: and as a member of the Demand Local Trust Committee

[4:39:15] Voice 38: and as trust counsel a number of times,

[4:39:17] Voice 38: that the primary difference between a municipal councillor

[4:39:20] Voice 38: and a trustee is this mandate that we live with.

[4:39:23] Voice 38: And the very first statement of that mandate

[4:39:25] Voice 38: is the preservation and protection of the natural environment.

[4:39:28] Voice 38: And I'd be shocked if I wasn't representing that in my community decisions sitting at my local trust committee table or at the table that we all sit at as trust council.

[4:39:40] Voice 38: The preservation and protection of the environment underpins every decision that is made in land use planning as far as I'm concerned.

[4:39:50] Voice 38: concerned um it perhaps the word priority is the one that's catching people's unawares but

[4:39:59] Voice 38: really uh when we are in a decision-making environment um the unique nature of our

[4:40:07] Voice 38: positions is that the the natural environment is sitting at the table with us and has a voice it

[4:40:12] Voice 38: has the voice the principal voice and so i don't have a problem with priorizing this idea of

[4:40:20] Voice 38: preservation and protection of the natural environment. And one of the three reasons

[4:40:24] Voice 38: we're amending the policy statement, besides climate change and affordable housing, is this

[4:40:30] Voice 38: renewed and directed focus on Indigenous cultural heritage history and acknowledgement and

[4:40:39] Voice 38: conciliation. So that also becomes a priority. And I wish we could move on to the body of this

[4:40:46] Voice 38: document. I really enjoy it. It's working for me. And I think it's troubling when we're getting

[4:40:53] Voice 38: caught up on something as simple as what we are, in fact, getting caught up on. Thank you.

[4:41:00] Voice 25: Trustee Bowen.

[4:41:10] Voice 40: So I agree that this is in conflict with the mandate as we've now explained it. It's about

[4:41:19] Voice 40: about balancing different things.

[4:41:22] Voice 40: And I actually also wonder if, you know, protecting,

[4:41:31] Voice 40: we should be protecting all cultural heritage.

[4:41:34] Voice 40: So I would see prioritizing the environment

[4:41:38] Voice 40: is covered in preserve and protect.

[4:41:40] Voice 40: And I would suggest that we protect all cultural heritage.

[4:41:44] Voice 40: And I think we are mandated by the province

[4:41:46] Voice 40: to do that anyway.

[4:41:47] Voice 40: way and in fact there's kind of artificial you know timelines put around different things which

[4:41:53] Voice 40: i think just confuses things it would be better just to say um all cultural heritage so those are

[4:42:00] Voice 40: my thoughts on that particular one thank you

[4:42:02] Voice 25: trustee yates

[4:42:07] Voice 3: thank you um well like trustee

[4:42:10] Voice 3: graham on denman island i feel that the most important part of my job is thinking about

[4:42:18] Voice 3: priorities, and because I'm a trustee and not a municipal councillor, it is a priority for me to

[4:42:26] Voice 3: think about the natural environment and particularly now Indigenous cultural heritage.

[4:42:32] Voice 3: And I am so grateful that this has been added as a priority and as a guiding principle. So when we

[4:42:41] Voice 3: look at objective three i think that opening paragraph under preserving and protecting healthy

[4:42:48] Voice 3: and biodiverse ecosystems is very eloquent and it talks about how that is essential to the islands

[4:42:57] Voice 3: trust object and to supporting community well-being across the region and i would not change that i

[4:43:04] Voice 3: I think it's a really good statement.

[4:43:09] Voice 25: Trustee Barthwick.

[4:43:12] Voice 34: Yeah, I would, I think,

[4:43:15] Voice 34: echoing a little bit of what's been said,

[4:43:17] Voice 34: I think that there is, you know,

[4:43:19] Voice 34: a clear expectation that the natural environment

[4:43:25] Voice 34: is part of our prioritization broadly as a body.

[4:43:32] Voice 34: That said, and, you know,

[4:43:34] Voice 34: I would agree with something that Trustee Harris

[4:43:37] Voice 34: was talking about before although possibly from slightly different perspective i would agree that

[4:43:43] Voice 34: that um conflating the uh and i i have lost the spot now where it was but the the conflation of

[4:43:52] Voice 34: environmental protection and indigenous heritage protection should be separate things um there's

[4:44:00] Voice 34: i think those are those are different things um i do think that there is value in explicitly

[4:44:06] Voice 34: explicitly stating that indigenous Heritage is is of special interest um and this is a a

[4:44:14] Voice 34: decolonial sort of concept but because it has not been spoken of prior previously it it needs it

[4:44:22] Voice 34: clearly needs a an explicit uh call that said you know in our mandate in general it all it says you

[4:44:29] Voice 34: know we've got to preserve our communities as well they are part of that component but but the

[4:44:34] Voice 34: The natural environment is an explicit part of the mandate, needs to be part of our prioritization.

[4:44:39] Voice 34: And, you know, but, you know, this discussion has been around, yep, in different situations,

[4:44:46] Voice 34: you may prioritize one or the other over the other concerns for a specific question.

[4:44:53] Voice 34: But all of the pillars of the mandate need to be reflected in every decision that we

[4:45:00] Voice 34: make as trustees.

[4:45:02] Voice 34: So I think it's important. But I would agree that I think separating natural environment and Indigenous heritage, they are different questions. They're both important to me, but I think they are separate issues.

[4:45:17] Voice 25: Trustee Patrick?

[4:45:22] Trustee Patrick: It's interesting because I didn't pick these notes up before. I mean, I absolutely support the guiding principles and prioritizing environment. That's in the current trust policy statement. So this isn't new. It's already existing.

[4:45:33] Trustee Patrick: Interesting. My only question is a drafting question because the guiding principles are quite clear. They guide all of our decisions and then the directive policies are, you know, so do we really need in each objective a reference back to a guiding principle?

[4:45:48] Trustee Patrick: principle because i'm trying to think again from readability and our public and people who are going

[4:45:52] Trustee Patrick: to be using this policy statement do we need to have those openings because the paragraphs are

[4:45:57] Trustee Patrick: wonderful to start with this is what this objective means and tying it back i just do we need it is my

[4:46:03] Trustee Patrick: question so that each objective opens with a phrase of linking it back to a principle do we need to do

[4:46:09] Trustee Patrick: that that's just my question so

[4:46:17] Voice 9: the answer is no the legislation states that this must be a general

[4:46:20] Voice 9: principle of trust council's policies to implement the mandate so how you structure this document

[4:46:25] Voice 9: what you put in it is entirely at your discretion uh staff drafted this in attempt to try and link

[4:46:31] Voice 9: you back and provide some structure to the document but it is not a statutory requirement

[4:46:36] Voice 9: in any way and you're free to amend it as you wish yeah

[4:46:42] Voice 7: just uh in the drafting that was the

[4:46:44] Voice 7: intent guiding principles normally then you'd have objectives below that um this has now changed

[4:46:49] Voice 7: quite a bit so the the rationale for doing that i don't really think fits any longer so whether

[4:46:56] Voice 7: you want to keep it this way or simplify it even further it's totally up to council justy bernardo

[4:47:04] Voice 22: um i think i may have misunderstood um the topic i thought we were actually talking about the

[4:47:10] Voice 22: language in the guiding principles section but if we're not doing that then i don't have anything

[4:47:14] Voice 22: to say about this particular whether i mean there's a lot of discussion about the environment

[4:47:18] Voice 22: and the other aspect of it.

[4:47:19] Voice 22: But I don't think we're talking about the language

[4:47:23] Voice 22: in the guiding principles section, are we?

[4:47:26] Voice 22: No.

[4:47:26] Voice 22: All right.

[4:47:27] Voice 22: I don't have a question.

[4:47:32] Voice 25: Just go ahead.

[4:47:33] Voice 25: Well, Chair Luckham, Trustee Luckham.

[4:47:37] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Luckham, on this particular occasion,

[4:47:39] Trustee Luckham: it's such a pleasure.

[4:47:40] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[4:47:42] Trustee Luckham: I just want to acknowledge and thank Laura

[4:47:45] Trustee Luckham: for the great question that she's advanced here.

[4:47:50] Trustee Luckham: I think that's significant.

[4:47:51] Trustee Luckham: We should definitely consider this going forward, but what I was going to say before that was we have to continuously look at this document as a whole, and each one of these objectives indeed links to a principle and a priority, and so in that objective three, it happens to be about, let me scroll there, preserving and protecting healthy and biodiverse ecosystems.

[4:48:18] Trustee Luckham: system. So as a priority for that element, objective three,

[4:48:22] Trustee Luckham: protecting the environment, prioritizing environmental

[4:48:26] Trustee Luckham: protection seems to match up under objective two and

[4:48:29] Trustee Luckham: objective one, there's other prioritizations and or

[4:48:33] Trustee Luckham: acknowledgments. And if I would concur with the notion that

[4:48:42] Trustee Luckham: perhaps we could drop those elements and stick with the

[4:48:46] Trustee Luckham: broader context of it, because at all times, every decision will need to take in each of the

[4:48:54] Trustee Luckham: objectives discreetly. And as was indicated, there's a balance here. All of this is balanced.

[4:49:02] Trustee Luckham: And I wouldn't say that one priority is greater than any other priority. They're all equal. And

[4:49:07] Trustee Luckham: we need to turn our minds to them.

[4:49:10] Voice 25: Thank you. Trustee Harris.

[4:49:16] Voice 18: I'm surprised to be this close

[4:49:19] Voice 18: in the queue um i want to thank trustee borthwick for what he said that you know he's i don't think

[4:49:25] Voice 18: i could have said it better um i hope people really heard that and that influences um how we

[4:49:31] Voice 18: move forward here you know one of the questions i have over all this is to what end um does this

[4:49:37] Voice 18: protection go to you know you readable the objectives in this number three and and um

[4:49:46] Voice 18: um to what end like when does it stop how much are we going to protect salt spring island is

[4:49:53] Voice 18: quite a huge amount protected so turn island has quite a large amount of that protected already so

[4:49:58] Voice 18: to what end are we going to start depopulating what's you know it's it's it's sort of vague to

[4:50:05] Voice 18: me it opens up a lot of again there's lots of argument and controversy amongst the communities

[4:50:10] Voice 18: when it comes time to land use planning and bylaws and and ocps and all the rest of it

[4:50:15] Voice 18: But I still do see, you know, the one glaring issue is the contradiction with Section 3 of the mandate where unique amenities isn't there.

[4:50:26] Voice 18: So I guess I'll leave it there. Thanks.

[4:50:31] Voice 25: Trustee Getty?

[4:50:35] Voice 36: I think there's some overlap, and that, for me, is causing a bit of confusion.

[4:50:41] Voice 36: So if we go back to principle 2.1.2, and so that's page, I just lost it, 2.12, sorry, it's just taking me back to the, I pressed the wrong button.

[4:51:01] Voice 36: anyway um the objective uh two is talking about cultural heritage in detail and um objective three

[4:51:13] Voice 36: is talking about um the ecological the um in reviewing the in-camera session that we had in

[4:51:21] Voice 36: september of 23 um and the rise and report that came out of that was that the object the man

[4:51:30] Voice 36: and legislated object is to preserve and protect the area,

[4:51:38] Voice 36: the unique amenities, and the environment.

[4:51:41] Voice 36: And that we need to have a balance,

[4:51:45] Voice 36: and that I think what we're being asked here is to prioritize the environment.

[4:51:53] Voice 36: And if that is the decision of this council,

[4:51:55] Voice 36: then I think we need to be very careful in terms of whether or not

[4:51:59] Voice 36: we can prioritize what's a legislated mandate.

[4:52:03] Voice 36: And if we want that to take, as some of the other trustees have said they do

[4:52:10] Voice 36: and they prefer to do in their work, that we have to make sure

[4:52:14] Voice 36: that we understand how to properly prioritize that.

[4:52:19] Voice 36: So I think that we have possibly, it opened to us in terms of issues

[4:52:25] Voice 36: around climate crisis and issues around our rural status and maintaining that

[4:52:31] Voice 36: and other important factors that link to protecting the environment and having

[4:52:37] Voice 36: that as a priority assuming that we can prioritize and put an emphasis on it and

[4:52:42] Voice 36: we want to do that we have to be able to explain it and justify it and I think

[4:52:47] Voice 36: that that is something that we can do that is possibly the work that we should

[4:52:52] Voice 36: be doing at this point jesse scott

[4:53:09] Voice 25: i

[4:53:16] Voice 9: just wasn't sure i heard a question there about whether you could do this

[4:53:19] Voice 9: if yeah so what i would say it's in your current policy statement that's been adopted by the

[4:53:24] Voice 9: minister approved by the minister and it's in a similar guiding principle form so i would suggest

[4:53:29] Voice 9: that would suggest that you can do it because it's been previously approved this

[4:53:39] Voice 39: may may be

[4:53:40] Voice 39: nitpicking, but there's words here, it says

[4:53:44] Voice 39: shall, and somewhere else it says will.

[4:53:48] Voice 39: Are those words, do they have identical meaning? Because

[4:53:54] Voice 39: in here it says, sorry,

[4:53:58] Voice 39: I've got to poke him in the ear.

[4:54:02] Voice 26: Local

[4:54:02] Voice 39: trust committees and island municipalities

[4:54:04] Voice 39: shall. Okay, that means you've got to do it, right?

[4:54:09] Voice 39: and then you go up earlier

[4:54:11] Voice 39: in the earlier part and it says

[4:54:14] Voice 39: will

[4:54:16] Voice 39: now does it have a different meaning

[4:54:18] Voice 39: or are they just the same words

[4:54:20] Voice 39: because I've tripped over this before

[4:54:22] Voice 39: in sort of legal documents

[4:54:23] Voice 39: actually will is stronger

[4:54:26] Voice 39: than shall is

[4:54:28] Voice 39: that's what I thought, kind of twinkie

[4:54:30] Voice 39: so do we mean to be twinkie

[4:54:33] Voice 39: here in our meaning when we say shall

[4:54:34] Voice 39: that's the point

[4:54:35] Voice 39: I'm twinkie?

[4:54:36] Voice 31: yeah

[4:54:37] Voice 39: well that green shirt on

[4:54:48] Voice 8: Microphone. So,

[4:54:50] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Scott, are you asking for an articulation of when it's appropriate to use shall versus will?

[4:54:55] Voice 39: Well, is it clear? No, I'm asking the people who drafted this. Is the meaning clear to them?

[4:55:02] Voice 39: So the

[4:55:07] Voice 9: wills relate to the principles, which is council talking to itself about what it wants to undertake as a value that drives itself.

[4:55:14] Voice 9: The shalls are directive to local trust committees about the content or nature of policies in the official community plans.

[4:55:20] Voice 9: so they have different intents they're for different purposes so there was legislative

[4:55:24] Voice 9: intent there from us around that can

[4:55:29] Trustee Elliott: we linger on this for just a second because a penny

[4:55:31] Trustee Elliott: dropped in my head so council's direction to itself and i i'm sorry i should put myself in

[4:55:38] Trustee Elliott: the speaker's queue trust council will do this is a commitment that expresses itself how so on

[4:55:52] Voice 9: in your principles policies you will see it says often it starts with to work towards something

[4:55:56] Voice 9: thing. So you're expressing an intention to be informed by, to be guided by, to support

[4:56:01] Voice 9: planning management decisions that foster a thing. They're generic and they're intended to sort of

[4:56:07] Voice 9: signal your intentions. These are not regulatory in nature. This would be true of the guiding

[4:56:13] Voice 9: principles you've had in the policy statement to date in the past, that they're meant to be

[4:56:17] Voice 9: informative to counsel as you undertake your work. You will note that in this current draft,

[4:56:22] Voice 9: we do state, as was on screen previously, you tend to signal to all trust bodies that these

[4:56:26] Voice 9: are your values and these are your intentions. Does that answer your question? Okay.

[4:56:34] Voice 13: Trustee Faulk.

[4:56:39] Voice 37: Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to say about the word prioritization. I tend to think

[4:56:46] Voice 37: it's misplaced in the context where it is there because I don't see a conflict between, you know,

[4:56:53] Voice 37: Indigenous cultural heritage and environmental protection, for instance. And with most of our

[4:56:59] Voice 37: tasks there shouldn't be a conflict like they should be accomplished together in parallel

[4:57:06] Voice 37: and considered in parallel and so i think it's kind of miss framing to think about prioritization

[4:57:17] Voice 37: we should work for all of it you know and it's i just don't see a conflict and

[4:57:23] Voice 37: yeah thanks that's it trustee

[4:57:28] Voice 25: evans um

[4:57:32] Trustee Evans: so again going back to the object of the trust which is

[4:57:35] Trustee Evans: to preserve and protect the trust area and its unique amenities and environment for the benefit

[4:57:41] Trustee Evans: of the residents of the trust area and of british columbia generally by prioritizing the environment

[4:57:48] Trustee Evans: in this entire section that is mandated to be reflected we are directed that this has to be

[4:57:56] Trustee Evans: prioritized in our ocp we are directed that this has to be prioritized in all of our bylaws

[4:58:02] Trustee Evans: that takes away um the ability to prioritize something else that may have come up that um

[4:58:14] Trustee Evans: would be like in for for a unique amenity if there if there's a conflict the environment

[4:58:19] Trustee Evans: has to take priority because we have directed it here which is what i'm saying i think by removing

[4:58:26] Trustee Evans: moving the word prioritize, it doesn't decrease its importance in the document and the direction

[4:58:33] Trustee Evans: to the LTCs. What it is doing, it permits the rest of the things in the document and the bylaws

[4:58:41] Trustee Evans: and the OCP to be taken into consideration. If it's prioritized here, then I'm foreseeing

[4:58:52] Trustee Evans: issues when we're coming to do our bylaws. I'm foreseeing issues when we're coming to do our OCP

[4:58:57] Trustee Evans: because we are directed in this that we shall prioritize in each of these areas in this section

[4:59:05] Trustee Evans: yeah

[4:59:10] Voice 7: okay so from a drafting perspective I don't think that's the intent I think the intent is

[4:59:16] Voice 7: when it comes to a conflict so in your LCP when you're making a decision let's say it's about a

[4:59:24] Voice 7: a new development whether it's residential and you're looking at the the values of that

[4:59:31] Voice 7: development versus the values of the environment that you'll certainly make the environment a

[4:59:37] Voice 7: priority in your decision making you can still allow that development to go ahead but you need

[4:59:44] Voice 7: to consider mitigating factors on the environment to protect the environment it's not saying that

[4:59:50] Voice 7: when you open your LCP for review, you have to prioritize the environment in

[4:59:55] Voice 7: that review. You're totally open to look at everything

[5:00:00] Voice 7: else in that document so maybe if that's not clear that's something we can probably make clear

[5:00:05] Voice 7: but i just want to make that clear that the current policy statement is read that way it

[5:00:12] Voice 7: says in the current policy statement where there's a conflict between policies the environment shall

[5:00:18] Voice 7: be given priority so maybe the word priority might be the wrong word to use but um i just

[5:00:25] Voice 7: just wanted to point out that's not the intent from a drafting perspective and claire can you

[5:00:31] Voice 7: confirm or deny what i just said um

[5:00:37] Voice 9: so yes so again i'll take you back to how do you define

[5:00:39] Voice 9: guiding principles and how do you intend to apply them is the question as i stated earlier they're

[5:00:44] Voice 9: not mandatory they're not directive in nature so if you wished to somehow signal a softer language

[5:00:52] Voice 9: language, you could certainly do that in how you define what is a guiding principle. I would also

[5:00:57] Voice 9: suggest the consideration of the environment as it's being proposed is not unique to Islands Trust.

[5:01:03] Voice 9: I would say good planning everywhere ensures that communities are founded in healthy ecosystems that

[5:01:08] Voice 9: have sufficient water, have biodiversity, have protected areas that support people's well-being

[5:01:13] Voice 9: and mental health. All of those pieces are just part of good land use planning. So that's what I

[5:01:19] Voice 9: i think is being signaled here that you want to

[5:01:21] Voice 9: undertake good well-principled land use planning

[5:01:24] Voice 9: that acknowledges that fact that you you know for example if you have a community that has

[5:01:29] Voice 9: insufficient water or doesn't have any forest cover and is therefore subject to floods and

[5:01:34] Voice 9: landslides whatever it may be you're you're asked to look at that as a priority for your community

[5:01:39] Voice 9: insofar as it makes sense i

[5:01:47] Trustee Elliott: don't want to get hung up on this one topic in a back and forth

[5:01:51] Trustee Elliott: if we've had sufficient clarity from staff can we move back through the speakers list

[5:01:56] Trustee Elliott: no we do need to move through the speakers list no you don't get just to rebut

[5:02:01] Trustee Elliott: the topic

[5:02:09] Trustee Evans: is not about uh principle number two it's the section of objective three

[5:02:15] Trustee Evans: all of it it's 3.32 3.33 3.34 3.36 3.37 and the box not just the principle

[5:02:27] Voice 28: So

[5:02:28] Trustee Elliott: I'd like clarity on whether the description of Objective 3 constitutes a policy against which a community's OCP would be measured, whether it conforms to the policy statement.

[5:02:41] Trustee Elliott: My understanding is the directive policies, 3.3.1 and following, are not constrained by principle 2.1.2.

[5:02:52] Trustee Elliott: the principle guides our decision making but it does not it is not a policy of itself

[5:03:02] Voice 9: i'll attempt to answer that again keeping an eye on the director of legislative services here

[5:03:06] Voice 9: um the document is meant we we stayed at the bottom and in the interpretation section it's

[5:03:12] Voice 9: intended to be read as a whole so those those introductory sections are not required you could

[5:03:17] Voice 9: choose to take them out they would aid in interpretation broadly in terms of how how

[5:03:22] Voice 9: how the policies are situated in your mental frame.

[5:03:27] Voice 9: And I think should there ever be a court challenge,

[5:03:29] Voice 9: it might be that the entirety of the document is looked at

[5:03:33] Voice 9: to provide interpretative guidance.

[5:03:34] Voice 9: So in that way, they might have some utility.

[5:03:37] Voice 9: I suspect it's low, if I'm guessing.

[5:03:40] Voice 9: I'm looking at the director who's nodding at me.

[5:03:41] Voice 9: I suspect they're of low consequence, really,

[5:03:44] Voice 9: as introductory paragraphs.

[5:03:49] Voice 25: Trustee Patrick.

[5:03:52] Voice 15: We have a solution to help you.

[5:04:02] Trustee Patrick: I wanted to thank

[5:04:05] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Lockham

[5:04:06] Trustee Patrick: because I reacted

[5:04:08] Trustee Patrick: because like I said, this wasn't an issue

[5:04:09] Trustee Patrick: but I think it does make so much more sense now

[5:04:12] Trustee Patrick: I think we were trying to be linear

[5:04:14] Trustee Patrick: which is the old way of thinking

[5:04:16] Trustee Patrick: we did this for the environment

[5:04:18] Trustee Patrick: this for the community

[5:04:18] Trustee Patrick: it's right in the description

[5:04:20] Trustee Patrick: every one of these guiding principles

[5:04:23] Trustee Patrick: relate to ecological protection

[5:04:26] Trustee Patrick: so I think just removing that open

[5:04:28] Trustee Patrick: sentence, it flows so much better

[5:04:30] Trustee Patrick: we have guiding principles

[5:04:31] Trustee Patrick: which apply to all the decisions, we don't need that opening because you can't, it's not a linear

[5:04:35] Trustee Patrick: connection. So it's just a drafting clarity to just remove those opening sentence of each of

[5:04:42] Trustee Patrick: the objective statements. I'll work on a motion.

[5:04:50] Voice 22: Trustee Bernardo. Yeah, I confess I'm having

[5:04:55] Voice 22: trouble following the discussion because we're hopping back and forth between this desire to

[5:05:01] Voice 22: drill into the objectives part of this thing and then getting ourselves wrapped around the axle

[5:05:07] Voice 22: about what is the guiding principle and all that kind of jazz.

[5:05:10] Voice 22: So I apologize if my comment is misdirected here,

[5:05:14] Voice 22: but I need some clarity here for myself.

[5:05:16] Voice 22: And it does go back to this prioritization business language

[5:05:20] Voice 22: that is discussed in the guiding principle stuff at 2.1.2,

[5:05:27] Voice 22: which connects back to Objective 3.

[5:05:32] Voice 22: I appreciate that the prioritized language is already present

[5:05:36] Voice 22: it in the current trust policy statement and the minister approved it um that's one thing but i'm

[5:05:44] Voice 22: struggling with how we how it's possible for us to use prioritize in that sense when the actual

[5:05:52] Voice 22: statute in section three directs us to preserve and protect three separate things trust area

[5:05:57] Voice 22: unique amenities and the environment that is an order from the legislature to advance those three

[5:06:05] Voice 22: objectives and the order does not include giving priority to one or the other it's just that's

[5:06:11] Voice 22: what the language says so uh i don't know i mean what we're doing here is we're adding to what the

[5:06:19] Voice 22: legislature has said when the legislature has basically identified three objects that we should

[5:06:23] Voice 22: be advancing equally we're saying no we want to advance the environment more than those other two

[5:06:29] Voice 22: objects that are in the mandate. I'm not sure that that's a smart thing to do. And I'm going

[5:06:36] Voice 22: to suggest we might need to change the language to account for the legal reality that we have

[5:06:40] Voice 22: those three objectives or those three purposes to advance under Section 3. And a separate point

[5:06:48] Voice 22: here is I appreciate what Director Frater is saying, that the guiding principles are not

[5:06:55] Voice 22: binding but they the language there uses the word commitment it's actually not

[5:07:00] Voice 22: obvious from the language that the guiding principles are not binding and I

[5:07:04] Voice 22: think definitely that needs to be tweaked somehow to make it clear because

[5:07:09] Voice 22: we all know I mean we keep getting these delegations from people and they're

[5:07:15] Voice 22: they're coming to us with their interpretations of everything that we've

[5:07:18] Voice 22: ever done and saying no this is what it means and that's what that means we just

[5:07:22] Voice 22: talked this morning about you know

[5:07:25] Voice 22: The drama we've had with Section 3 before, so I wouldn't want us to recapitulate that confusion, that trust policy statement.

[5:07:33] Voice 22: So if the guiding principles are not binding, I think we need to be fairly explicit about that in some sense.

[5:07:38] Voice 22: And maybe that'll help when we try to deal with these objectives. Thank you.

[5:07:45] Voice 22: Trustee Scott.

[5:07:50] Voice 39: Thank you. Again, I don't know if I've got this right, but when I look at 2.11, these are guiding principles and priorities.

[5:08:00] Voice 39: priorities? Is that jumping ahead? One and two speak to cultural heritage protection of First

[5:08:10] Voice 39: Nations values. I think each one of these should have a reference to First Nations cultural values.

[5:08:19] Voice 39: Because you look at 2.13, limit the rate and development of, I mean, the rate and scale of

[5:08:25] Voice 39: development, and the last part, to preserve and protect the trust area, its unique amenities

[5:08:29] Voice 39: and environment i think it should say to protect unique first nations cultural values and the

[5:08:35] Voice 39: environment because again you know i i think first nations values come in as a priority everywhere

[5:08:43] Voice 39: and i'm not sure i haven't gotten guidance for precautionary principles again i mean we got to

[5:08:49] Voice 39: be precautionary in protecting culturally modified trees burial sites all these things they come as

[5:08:56] Voice 39: a priority like i'm thinking what brought it up about uh a unique environment grassy point on

[5:09:03] Voice 39: hornby is all the midden now it's also a unique environmental value but there's one particular

[5:09:09] Voice 39: do we say we we have to protect uh you know you start getting into that priority i think we have

[5:09:16] Voice 39: to put those unique first nations values in all of these things so consider it anyway i won't say

[5:09:23] Voice 39: we have to let's just think about it as we're going through these trustee

[5:09:30] Voice 25: harris thank

[5:09:35] Voice 18: you um

[5:09:36] Voice 18: going back to i've heard um staff say that it doesn't really mean what it says and if you know

[5:09:42] Voice 18: so if that's the case then clearly there needs to be some tweaking um software language i heard

[5:09:47] Voice 18: that statement yes i would agree with that um uh you know to a large degree um you know regarding

[5:09:56] Voice 18: Regarding First Nations, and what Trustee Scott just said, First Nations should be something that's much broader than just this environmental end of it.

[5:10:08] Voice 18: There needs to be a separate directive, in my opinion, about First Nations.

[5:10:12] Voice 18: And that isn't just about the environment.

[5:10:15] Voice 18: There's plenty of First Nations who want to develop, and there's all kinds of talk about just that.

[5:10:21] Voice 18: and and uh you know economic prosperity for first nations which will have to utilize some uh ground

[5:10:27] Voice 18: that is you know in um in the islands trust area so you know that type of thing should be mentioned

[5:10:35] Voice 18: when it if we take um uh one of the directive priorities 3.3.3 the um forest ecosystem

[5:10:44] Voice 18: ecosystem um protection it's coming up here i see um when i see when i see this

[5:10:53] Voice 18: and um you know clearly i i look through i look at this stuff with um with a biased lens um

[5:11:02] Voice 18: it's it seems very um very troubling um to me you know these words mean a lot it's not just

[5:11:12] Voice 18: a simple statement this is you know this will also affect first nations who have um plenty of

[5:11:19] Voice 18: fee simple uh forest land that are going to be uh you know that could be impacted by this broad you

[5:11:28] Voice 18: know again to what end is it being protected and why we've had a huge thing about the cdf zone

[5:11:33] Voice 18: you know we don't need to get into that but um this just you know again i'm looking through a

[5:11:39] Voice 18: biased lens and and my my view isn't um you know an anomaly here um to many this seems like

[5:11:47] Voice 18: eco-radical rhetoric sorry to use the term i'm not accusing anybody of anything but that's how

[5:11:53] Voice 18: much of the public um will perceive this stuff as so i think the softer language harris could

[5:11:59] Trustee Elliott: you speak for yourself you are representative of the public to speak for your own views and values

[5:12:04] Trustee Elliott: use thank you well

[5:12:06] Voice 18: no i'll speak for the people that elected me and many of them who talked to

[5:12:10] Voice 18: me about about these things so um i'm here representing the people who support me and

[5:12:16] Voice 18: there's lots of them many of them first nations um anyway um clearly there needs to be tweaking

[5:12:23] Voice 18: um i i think that the first uh there should be a separate a separate directive regarding first

[5:12:29] Voice 18: nations we made a huge step this morning with the um you know this letter um clearly big things are

[5:12:34] Voice 18: coming um a separate directive regarding first nations would be great thank you yes you're

[5:12:42] Voice 25: welcome um

[5:12:47] Trustee Luckham: a couple of thoughts may or may not be helpful and and i may or may not be right even

[5:12:53] Trustee Luckham: um but i said earlier we have to look at this document as a whole each one of these individual

[5:13:00] Trustee Luckham: individual uh items is measured in context context i'd say equally with all the others

[5:13:09] Trustee Luckham: and particularly the objectives themselves of which these are all sub elements of when i uh

[5:13:18] Trustee Luckham: sitting in my role on executive committee to process this is about bylaws right when they

[5:13:23] Trustee Luckham: come through have we considered all this stuff and i always ask myself and i go through the

[5:13:30] Trustee Luckham: the directives checks list, and I look at every single item, and I ask myself, has that been

[5:13:35] Trustee Luckham: addressed in any of the information that I've received? Because I believe the principle is,

[5:13:41] Trustee Luckham: on all of these elements, is have you turned your minds to it in your decision making,

[5:13:47] Trustee Luckham: and have you weighed all of the priorities and objectives against each other in order to come

[5:13:54] Trustee Luckham: to a decision because all of this stuff is not outside a context of a philosophical conversation

[5:14:02] Trustee Luckham: it's in reference to a decision that you're about to make with some bylaw and have you are all these

[5:14:10] Trustee Luckham: elements being respected in that to ensure that we're meeting the guiding principles and that's

[5:14:17] Trustee Luckham: principles plural not just singular but all of the principles to help us in our work that's how

[5:14:24] Trustee Luckham: how I think about this. So, and let's not turn it into

[5:14:27] Trustee Luckham: a word soup. We could really easily add, start adding words

[5:14:31] Trustee Luckham: which is going to make it less comprehensible to everybody.

[5:14:40] Voice 25: Thank you.

[5:14:43] Trustee Evans: It actually does tie into what I wanted to state.

[5:14:46] Trustee Evans: So, because the section of object three,

[5:14:50] Trustee Evans: I'm not talking about that box at the top, because the section itself in

[5:14:53] Trustee Evans: each of the statements after it all say prioritize,

[5:14:56] Trustee Evans: prioritize, then this one section is prioritized over the other sections in this document.

[5:15:03] Trustee Evans: This has to be taken into account and it's directed, it's a directive. This is where I'm

[5:15:09] Trustee Evans: having an issue of all I'm asking is that we remove the word prioritize from each of these

[5:15:12] Trustee Evans: sections. That way it remains the same. I'm not looking for word soup. I'm not looking for

[5:15:18] Trustee Evans: anything else. I just want to remove that word prioritize so that it is, it stays in the same

[5:15:24] Trustee Evans: because the next one is fostering sustainable inclusive and resilient communities well we've

[5:15:29] Trustee Evans: just prioritized in every single line that environment comes before that so if we're

[5:15:37] Trustee Evans: taking this document as a whole and we are not prioritizing one thing above another do not direct

[5:15:42] Trustee Evans: us that we have to trustee

[5:15:48] Voice 25: board um

[5:15:52] Voice 40: i'm finding it really difficult i do think we have a bit of

[5:15:57] Voice 40: a word soup and removing some words would really help. So we start out at the top with there are

[5:16:04] Voice 40: three kinds of policies. Then we jump to guiding principles. If we go down to part two, we've got

[5:16:12] Voice 40: a heading that says guiding principles. And the next heading is general guiding principles. And

[5:16:18] Voice 40: the next heading is guiding principles and priorities. So and that happens in section

[5:16:24] Voice 40: three as well. So in my view, guiding principles should be guiding principles full stop or guiding

[5:16:32] Voice 40: policies, whatever you want. In fact, from the top level, it should be guiding policies. And then

[5:16:39] Voice 40: we go to direct. So in part three, it becomes objectives and directive policies. So we have

[5:16:46] Voice 40: this two two things in each which do not cleanly go back and reflect the three types of policies

[5:16:54] Voice 40: that we're going to put in there so i think there needs to be a kind of a very comprehensive table

[5:17:00] Voice 40: of contents which actually allows us to go you know we're talking about guiding principles they

[5:17:09] Voice 40: don't become general guiding principles and then become general guiding principles and priorities

[5:17:13] Voice 40: like we map that out and clean it up because that's partly what's causing our confusion here

[5:17:18] Voice 40: and then we could go back into the words within which are should we be saying prioritize etc yes

[5:17:27] Voice 40: or no but I'm finding it really hard to just navigate because it starts out you know with

[5:17:33] Voice 40: the very clear there are three types of policies and then it muddies the waters and the headers

[5:17:41] Voice 40: within part two and part three thanks just

[5:17:46] Trustee Elliott: for clarity because i've got a little bit lost there

[5:17:50] Trustee Elliott: and i want to be clear on what you're suggesting that part two guiding principles should not list

[5:17:57] Trustee Elliott: the word priorities we should stick with principles part

[5:18:05] Voice 40: two says header is guiding

[5:18:07] Voice 40: guiding principles. The next header, 2.1, is general guiding principles. And the next header

[5:18:13] Voice 40: is guiding principles and priorities. And then there's cooperation principles, reconciliation

[5:18:20] Voice 40: principles. So I just find it very hard to navigate in a very systematic way. And I would

[5:18:28] Voice 40: just ask for help and clarity.

[5:18:29] Trustee Elliott: I'm clear on that. Do we want to have further debate on the idea of

[5:18:35] Trustee Elliott: of whether the word priorities should be embedded

[5:18:39] Trustee Elliott: in this part two guiding principles

[5:18:41] Trustee Elliott: and then further in the directive policies.

[5:18:44] Trustee Elliott: We could have a discussion on that.

[5:18:45] Trustee Elliott: Or do we want to go back to the directive policies

[5:18:49] Trustee Elliott: and ecosystem integrity?

[5:18:51] Trustee Elliott: Like, do we need to clear this up before we move forward?

[5:19:12] Trustee Elliott: On this question of whether guiding principles

[5:19:17] Trustee Elliott: should include the word priorities,

[5:19:20] Trustee Elliott: because I think it is an important point.

[5:19:21] Trustee Elliott: If it's inconsistent with the other sections, and if we're going to debate whether priorities live inside the policies, or they're alongside our guiding principles, perhaps we want to make a decision on that.

[5:19:39] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Peterson? Vice Chair?

[5:19:41] Trustee Elliott: um

[5:19:42] Voice 20: yeah in the part two i think my perspective is that removing uh priorities from the header

[5:19:51] Voice 20: that says guiding principles and priorities or removing and priorities i suppose it does make

[5:19:57] Voice 20: those section headers more consistent and i don't see that it changes the meaning um

[5:20:06] Voice 20: in any significant way and if if i'm wrong i'd like to hear that

[5:20:10] Voice 20: no

[5:20:16] Voice 31: sorry

[5:20:26] Trustee Elliott: we have a mo recommendation from trustee patrick is there any more speakers on

[5:20:32] Trustee Elliott: this idea of prioritization before we move to a recommendation may

[5:20:47] Voice 36: not knowing what the

[5:20:48] Voice 36: recommendation is going to be we start off with the objective number three and that is

[5:20:56] Voice 36: If I can go back, first of all, objective number one was reconciliation, and objective number two was cultural heritage, preserving and protecting Indigenous cultural heritage, culturally significant areas, sites, and species.

[5:21:14] Voice 36: And then objective three, which is where we started, is preserving and protecting healthy and biodiverse ecosystems.

[5:21:22] Voice 36: systems that in the first sentence references principle 2.1.2 and that got us back into the

[5:21:29] Voice 36: discussion in terms of do we want to use the word prioritize in that section because that has

[5:21:37] Voice 36: specific connotations with respect to all the work that we did on section three so we can

[5:21:44] Voice 36: we're going to have to justify it and it's you know something that would be binding

[5:21:50] Voice 36: So that, it seems to me, is the breakdown of the issues. I think that it would help greatly if 2.1.2 were separated. 2.1.1 talks about acknowledge and respect Indigenous rights and talks about reconciliation and is referred to, I think, in the reconciliation section.

[5:22:14] Voice 36: And the 2.1.2 has those two elements. And I think that if we divide it up and make it so that it fits with objectives one, two, and three more easily, that that would help in terms of some of the confusion that we've had and overlapping. But we still come back to that word prioritize in terms of that's a conscious decision that we are being asked to make with respect to the environment.

[5:22:46] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Patrick?

[5:22:48] Trustee Patrick: Shall I make a recommendation?

[5:22:50] Trustee Patrick: I did send it.

[5:22:51] Trustee Patrick: Oh, it is there.

[5:22:52] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[5:22:54] Trustee Patrick: Do I still make, I'd say I recommend, I move that the Committee of the Whole recommend

[5:23:00] Trustee Patrick: that the first sentence in each objective description box be removed, put a first, for

[5:23:06] Trustee Patrick: example, in there, because it's not necessary to link each objective to only one guiding

[5:23:12] Trustee Patrick: principle and priorities.

[5:23:18] Trustee Elliott: Seconded by Trustee Evans.

[5:23:20] Trustee Elliott: That's a great recommendation.

[5:23:22] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[5:23:23] Trustee Elliott: Any discussion on the recommendation?

[5:23:27] Trustee Elliott: To you first?

[5:23:29] Trustee Patrick: Sure.

[5:23:29] Trustee Patrick: As I mentioned before, I think it is old thinking.

[5:23:32] Trustee Patrick: Things aren't linear anymore.

[5:23:34] Trustee Patrick: I think the guiding principles are great the way it's written and presented, and I think

[5:23:38] Trustee Patrick: it just cleans up the text and makes it a much tighter document.

[5:23:43] Voice 27: Thank you.

[5:23:48] Voice 27: Trustee Getty?

[5:23:50] Voice 36: So on page 212 of our agenda, there's three types of policies in the policy statement.

[5:23:56] Voice 36: the guiding principles, directive policies, and advisory policies. And if you go down to

[5:24:03] Voice 36: one of these, let's say page 215, then you've got at the top under objective, the

[5:24:12] Voice 36: guiding principle, that's the sentence that you're suggesting be taken out, and then directive

[5:24:18] Voice 36: policies, and then advisory policies. So the three different categories are there in one place when

[5:24:24] Voice 36: we get into talking about so um i think it's helpful to have both the guiding principles

[5:24:33] Voice 36: and the directive policies and then the advisory policies all in one place and it doesn't i don't

[5:24:39] Voice 36: think it hurts at all in terms of repetition as long as we're clear in terms of what it is

[5:24:45] Voice 36: we are repeating and it's accurate

[5:24:47] Voice 28: is

[5:24:51] Voice 27: that fair i

[5:24:53] Voice 26: think that's

[5:24:54] Voice 27: anywhere speakers jesse bernardo did

[5:24:58] Voice 25: you want on this topic or you're just on the speakers list okay

[5:25:07] Trustee Elliott: are we ready to vote on the

[5:25:12] Trustee Elliott: motion anybody unclear on the meaning or the recommendation sorry thank you all those in

[5:25:20] Trustee Elliott: favor on the motion on the recommendation i'm

[5:25:23] Voice 18: sorry i'm i had a question pardon me yes trustee

[5:25:27] Trustee Elliott: harris so

[5:25:29] Voice 18: again this i'm confused with this committee the whole thing so we're just making

[5:25:35] Voice 18: a recommendation to trust counsel that's what's happening here yep

[5:25:40] Voice 27: thank you

[5:25:42] Voice 18: excellent

[5:25:45] Trustee Elliott: is everyone clear on the recommendation on the screen great ready

[5:25:49] Trustee Elliott: to vote all those in favor

[5:25:54] Voice 26: and

[5:26:01] Trustee Elliott: it's down 18 in favor and hands down please any

[5:26:05] Trustee Elliott: opposed these

[5:26:10] Voice 26: three three

[5:26:12] Trustee Elliott: opposed one online for opposed okay that is carried

[5:26:18] Trustee Elliott: So, on the new speakers list, who have we got next?

[5:26:27] Voice 25: Trustee Bernardo.

[5:26:31] Voice 22: Thank you.

[5:26:33] Voice 22: This is sort of related to this issue of prioritization in a tangential way, but it does apply to this larger scope question that we've heard from Chair Leckham from time to time.

[5:26:57] Voice 22: Trustee Harris raised a very interesting point, I think, just a little while ago about the potential effect of the trust policy statement on lands held in fee simple by First Nations.

[5:27:08] Voice 22: Acquiring fee simple title is definitely something First Nations are doing and exploring to kind of advance their purposes.

[5:27:15] Voice 22: And my understanding, and this is tricky here, where I'm going to get to at the end of this is a request that staff do some research and help us out with this thing.

[5:27:26] Voice 22: My understanding of Aboriginal title, which is quite different from fee simple, is a distinct constitutional rule, which gives First Nations some pretty amazing jurisdiction over what can be done on Aboriginal title ends, to the point that, to a great extent, a First Nation that has Aboriginal title over a piece of land, that excludes the authority of the province in many ways.

[5:27:57] Voice 22: I confess I don't know the exact details of that, but there certainly are cases along those lines.

[5:28:02] Voice 22: And we derive our authority from the province.

[5:28:06] Voice 22: And so to me, that raises a question about kind of a policy question, kind of almost an ethical question, because, as I say, my understanding is, you know, because we're a creature of the province, we don't have the authority to tell a First Nation what to do on its aboriginal title land.

[5:28:25] Voice 22: theoretically we've got the authority to tell them what to do on fee simple land so that to me that

[5:28:32] Voice 22: raises a question about whether or not we ought to be doing that whether lands held by first nations

[5:28:38] Voice 22: and fee simple uh and uh should be exempted altogether from the application of our bylaws

[5:28:45] Voice 22: and the reason we might do that would be uh as a matter of recognizing first nation needs and

[5:28:51] Voice 22: interests and all that historical stuff. But I'll be honest, it's absolutely unclear to me what the

[5:28:58] Voice 22: right answer is in that thing. I mean, we can easily imagine there's pros and cons on both

[5:29:02] Voice 22: sides. And that gets me to the point where I would really, on that narrow point, and I think

[5:29:08] Voice 22: I would like to get staff's insights on what seems to me a potentially tricky policy issue.

[5:29:14] Voice 22: you. Thank you.

[5:29:16] Trustee Elliott: Okay. So just to clarify, you would like staff advice on the application of

[5:29:23] Trustee Elliott: our bylaws to fee simple land that is held, a property that is held by a First Nations person.

[5:29:32] Trustee Elliott: Okay. Does staff feel able to answer this question?

[5:29:36] Voice 22: Well, when you say First Nations person,

[5:29:40] Voice 22: you know, there's a distinction there between individuals, but there's also corporate entities

[5:29:44] Voice 22: that First Nations form for the purposes of advancing the interests of the First Nation

[5:29:49] Voice 22: as a whole. It gets very complicated, which is why I'd be grateful for the staff to drill into that.

[5:29:54] Trustee Elliott: And are we talking about a First Nations person, an Indigenous person?

[5:30:00] Trustee Elliott: First Nations person with treaty rights, there's a lot of distinctions here.

[5:30:05] Trustee Elliott: So I'm just wanting to clarify before we turn to staff.

[5:30:11] Voice 22: Well, what I'm getting at is that there's a potential analogy between, like, Aboriginal title,

[5:30:17] Voice 22: and then there's an analogy between a First Nation that holds Aboriginal title over a stretch of land,

[5:30:23] Voice 22: and that holds, for example, we could start out with just a narrow question, deal with a First Nation.

[5:30:29] Voice 22: not an individual but a first nation that holds land and fee simple whether directly or indirectly

[5:30:34] Voice 22: through a corporation i think that's a narrow question i would like answered first it's only

[5:30:39] Trustee Elliott: recently been settled though that yeah okay so start to stop yeah okay

[5:30:47] Voice 9: hi cancel i'll try my

[5:30:48] Voice 9: best to address this by prefacing this i am not a lawyer and you may wish to seek legal advice at

[5:30:53] Voice 9: at some point. Indigenous rights are collective rights held through, you know, a nation. And so

[5:31:01] Voice 9: when we have lands that are part of a reserve, they're not subject to your bylaws.

[5:31:05] Voice 9: The provinces recently empowered nations to hold fee simple land. Fee simple land is indeed subject

[5:31:11] Voice 9: to your bylaws until such time as, as I understand it, it becomes addition to reserve should the

[5:31:16] Voice 9: wish to go through that federal process. In my conversations with nations, I have never heard a

[5:31:21] Voice 9: nation express an unwillingness to be subject to a bylaw and part of reconciliation is working

[5:31:27] Voice 9: together if a nation had an ambition for a piece of land and somehow the bylaw didn't permit it

[5:31:33] Voice 9: the understanding is they would come and speak with you about that and work it through community

[5:31:38] Voice 9: to community around how to best achieve those objectives that the nation has for its own

[5:31:42] Voice 9: community and for the land that it it is protecting and and whatever for whatever

[5:31:47] Voice 9: interests it may have. Should we reach a point where we've got a real world scenario, I would

[5:31:51] Voice 9: say, where a nation has an ambition for land that is thwarted through either a bylaw, an official

[5:31:58] Voice 9: community plan, or the policy statement, I think that's an opportunity for you to then drill into

[5:32:04] Voice 9: how that might look. But so far to date, the understanding has been that we would work

[5:32:09] Voice 9: cooperatively towards the best objectives of all communities. I would leave it to my colleagues to

[5:32:14] Voice 9: supplement that if i've gone off script can

[5:32:17] Voice 27: we go to director margaret just quickly

[5:32:20] Voice 7: yeah so i'm not

[5:32:22] Voice 7: going to contradict anything because that's i agree what the director said uh the other principle

[5:32:28] Voice 7: to keep in mind too is that um any owner of few simple land regardless of who they are you would

[5:32:35] Voice 7: want to treat them equally so the process could be the same um actually would be the same for

[5:32:40] Voice 7: or anybody making a zoning or an OCP change or whatever they need,

[5:32:45] Voice 7: because that's one of the fairness principles.

[5:32:47] Voice 7: It's not the person, it's not the people,

[5:32:49] Voice 7: it's about the land uses that you're dealing with.

[5:32:52] Voice 7: However, politically, how you, you know, your decisions

[5:32:56] Voice 7: and what factors into your decisions and how you make those decisions,

[5:32:59] Voice 7: that is, that's really up to the table.

[5:33:02] Voice 7: That's up to the committee that has that jurisdiction to make those decisions.

[5:33:07] Voice 7: But the main thing is that the procedure, the process,

[5:33:10] Voice 7: the tree to the same way, because it's peace in Poland.

[5:33:15] Voice 22: Thank you for that.

[5:33:16] Voice 22: And just this last comment to respond to Director Frater

[5:33:21] Voice 22: and maybe get some more clarification from her.

[5:33:25] Voice 22: Everything you've said, Director Frater, makes sense.

[5:33:27] Voice 22: I mean, it's a practical approach,

[5:33:30] Voice 22: but I'm intrigued that the fact that it hasn't come up

[5:33:36] Voice 22: in the discussions doesn't mean that it's not necessarily

[5:33:40] Voice 22: something that might be material in the future it might be just one of those things that we

[5:33:45] Voice 22: haven't gotten to yet and as you've described the scenario if we get to the point uh where

[5:33:53] Voice 22: first nation wants an exception we we get we get it or a variance i i it gets us into what to me is

[5:34:00] Voice 22: an uncomfortable situation of where we put this first nation situation of having to come to us

[5:34:05] Voice 22: for permission because that's how it works and the question i asked before was at the policy level

[5:34:12] Voice 22: Is that what we want to do with respect to lands that are held by a First Nation in Fee Simple?

[5:34:19] Voice 22: Or do we want to take it upon ourselves to, as a policy, not a legal matter, but as a policy matter, to treat those lands more akin to how Aboriginal title lands are treated?

[5:34:32] Voice 22: That's a big question. I don't expect you to answer it today. Thank you.

[5:34:39] Voice 7: well i've emerged i think that might be a legal question so if council's interested that's

[5:34:44] Voice 7: something we could pursue if you go in that way if

[5:34:50] Voice 9: i might just answer that that's where i think

[5:34:53] Voice 9: u.n declaration agreements come in if you have a nation and they would like to work with you to

[5:34:58] Voice 9: change the statutory instruments that is currently the legal path available to you to achieve that

[5:35:03] Voice 9: aim it's you know until you are in a place of true co-governance i think that the current

[5:35:07] Voice 9: current statutory path you have. You've got protocol agreements that allow for those conversations

[5:35:12] Voice 9: in a structured way to happen, but if you want to go beyond that, that's where a nation

[5:35:15] Voice 9: would then ask for a UN, or the trust would ask for a UN declaration agreement

[5:35:19] Voice 9: such that you could truly undertake that co-decision making together and craft

[5:35:23] Voice 9: changes to official community plans together, for example.

[5:35:28] Voice 22: You're talking about the Section 7 tool. Oh, okay. All right. Well, thanks.

[5:35:32] Voice 22: Thanks. Trustee Getty.

[5:35:44] Voice 25: Trustee Mary Woodley.

[5:35:45] Voice 25: Thank you.

[5:35:47] Voice 23: Sorry. So this is really interesting, because this is something that we are exploring on Galliano, right? I've asked that an exemption be put into a bylaw. Is it a bylaw? Yeah, I think it's a bylaw.

[5:36:04] Voice 23: know um but there's a distinction when you talk about first nations so a first nations like you

[5:36:14] Voice 23: say um reserve lands is obviously exempt the government has changed the legislation to allow

[5:36:19] Voice 23: nations to own private land whether they add that to reserve or keep it as private land

[5:36:24] Voice 23: and work with the local trust committee to develop that land is is their decision right

[5:36:30] Voice 23: Right. But the interesting thing is, is in a lot of these areas, there are First Nations peoples with status cards, with territorial rights.

[5:36:43] Voice 23: They're living in their territory. Right. They don't belong to a nation, but they're living in their traditional territory.

[5:36:51] Voice 23: And so there's there's a difference there. And many of them own fee simple land.

[5:36:57] Voice 23: And so we would like to think, okay, we're all going to be treated equal, but that's not how the Charter works. There's a section in the Charter which grants them additional rights. And so are we going to respect those rights, or are we going to say, no, those don't count if you own fee-simple land?

[5:37:17] Voice 23: Because, quite honestly, one of those rights is the right to occupy.

[5:37:22] Voice 23: And so if the piece of land that they own in your bylaws doesn't have a residential

[5:37:30] Voice 23: component, then as a local trust committee, you say, well, sorry, you can't live on your

[5:37:35] Voice 23: land because it's not like that in our thing.

[5:37:38] Voice 23: But under the Charter, they're clearly allowed to live on their own land.

[5:37:42] Voice 23: But so the distinction I think I make is is that it would be a First Nations person living in their traditional territory that is able to prove their lineage in that territory.

[5:37:57] Voice 23: So have a status card to have the number on it.

[5:38:00] Voice 23: It's it's that's a fairly simple process.

[5:38:02] Voice 23: Right.

[5:38:03] Voice 23: And we did get a legal opinion on it.

[5:38:06] Voice 23: And the exemption right now is in.

[5:38:11] Voice 23: We're going to public hearing.

[5:38:12] Voice 23: so we'll see if it stays there but uh um you know technically yeah we can do it right we've

[5:38:23] Voice 23: been through the process staff is drafted with it in right and so we're going to test the waters

[5:38:32] Voice 23: we'll see well we'll see whether it succeeds or not but i firmly believe like i believe that if a

[5:38:39] Voice 23: indigenous person living in their traditional territory who has proof of lineage in that

[5:38:44] Voice 23: that territory has additional rights to what we afford them in the bylaws those we don't have the

[5:38:50] Voice 23: right to extinguish those rights just because we hold the bylaws right the right to occupy the

[5:38:55] Voice 23: right to gather sustenance you know those they're they're charter rights and so it's an interesting

[5:39:01] Voice 23: so i i mean technically i i wholeheartedly agree with you if you want to put forward a motion to

[5:39:07] Voice 23: exempt First Nations territory. I'm all over it. But I like the point being brought up because it

[5:39:15] Voice 23: shows just kind of the dilemma we're going down here, right? We're talking about reconciliation

[5:39:21] Voice 23: and we're going, whoa, but not there.

[5:39:28] Trustee Elliott: We're going pretty deeply into territory in which

[5:39:31] Trustee Elliott: we're going to need a lot of advice and opinions. And I really appreciate the conversation. I do

[5:39:38] Trustee Elliott: want to um perhaps bring us back to uh ecosystem protection at some point we do have a speaker's

[5:39:46] Trustee Elliott: list and i want to recognize director freighter had something to add so no apologies so go back

[5:39:53] Trustee Elliott: to the speaker's list and thank you for your insight there

[5:39:56] Voice 25: trustee um

[5:40:00] Voice 36: i guess one of the

[5:40:03] Voice 36: problems that we've got in terms of having these um detailed discussions and while the community

[5:40:09] Voice 36: the whole is certainly an ideal way of doing it is um trustee bernardo you've introduced a concept

[5:40:17] Voice 36: that is completely separate from the objective number three it fits really really well under

[5:40:24] Voice 36: objective number one in terms of the reconciliation point that's the principle that's here in terms of

[5:40:30] Voice 36: land use management decisions that impact territories we can have a really important

[5:40:36] Voice 36: discussion in terms of the distinctions between about land and title and

[5:40:44] Voice 36: occupation and the whole issue of Crown land and all that that implies and you

[5:40:52] Voice 36: know how we can help with advancing the transition period so that it doesn't

[5:40:58] Voice 36: take as long as what's been going on between the province and the feds but

[5:41:01] Voice 36: But, you know, it's, this is, it's, the question that was raised is both remote in terms of

[5:41:11] Voice 36: it hasn't come up, and, you know, whether or not there's an issue with a specific item

[5:41:16] Voice 36: around fee simple, it's complex.

[5:41:20] Voice 36: And at this point, you know, I think we're getting diverted.

[5:41:23] Voice 36: So, yes, we've got to have these conversations, and they're really important.

[5:41:28] Voice 36: But, you know, in terms of the time that we've got set aside today, if we're getting into that, then let's get into that one. And if we're getting into environmental, then let's dig into that one, figure out which one we're actually focusing on, try and get through this.

[5:41:43] Voice 36: so we skipped over one and two agreed that we would come into and work today on three and then

[5:41:49] Voice 36: the other ones on four and five and whatever um it's important maybe that we if these were our

[5:41:55] Voice 36: you know first and second priorities that we rethink skipping over them obviously it's come up

[5:42:03] Voice 36: but um you know what time is it quarter after two and we haven't started on the environment yet

[5:42:11] Voice 36: Yeah.

[5:42:12] Trustee Elliott: So, and that was my point in asking where we want to go with this discussion today. We spent

[5:42:18] Trustee Elliott: a lot of time on reconciliation, but there are such deep fundamental questions that we still need

[5:42:25] Trustee Elliott: to understand. I'd like to see council make some progress in the public realm on some of the other

[5:42:33] Trustee Elliott: aspects of the policy statement, which are also important. So if we can bring ourselves back to

[5:42:40] Trustee Elliott: to Objective 3. I would really appreciate it.

[5:42:46] Voice 25: Trustee Boland.

[5:42:52] Voice 40: I'm still buried in the weeds of the taxonomy,

[5:42:55] Voice 40: which I think is causing confusion.

[5:42:57] Voice 40: So Part 3 says Objectives and Directive Policies,

[5:43:01] Voice 40: but actually for each objective,

[5:43:03] Voice 40: there's both a directive policy and an advisory policy.

[5:43:09] Voice 40: So I would say that that header should say

[5:43:12] Voice 40: Objectives and Supporting Policies

[5:43:14] Voice 40: or objectives and directive and advisory policies.

[5:43:22] Voice 40: And that's my recommendation.

[5:43:24] Voice 40: I don't know how to move that forward.

[5:43:28] Voice 40: And I also, okay, I'm sticking with part three.

[5:43:31] Voice 40: Not going back to part two, stick with part three.

[5:43:35] Voice 40: That is, I just find the taxonomy confusing.

[5:43:38] Voice 40: We go policies which are either guiding principles

[5:43:43] Voice 40: or directive or advisory policies.

[5:43:47] Voice 40: those are the three kind of things we have but then you flip over and we've got objectives

[5:43:54] Voice 40: so the construct is making it harder for us to really navigate through um however i i i understand

[5:44:05] Voice 40: that we start out with principles then we go to uh objectives and um but for part three there

[5:44:15] Voice 40: there are directive and advisory policies so each of those it should say directive and advisory

[5:44:22] Voice 40: policies in the header if you go to objective one that was a

[5:44:28] Trustee Elliott: recent that was a fairly recent

[5:44:30] Trustee Elliott: change so it may not be the advisory policies there was only originally two categories of

[5:44:35] Trustee Elliott: policies from what i can understand yeah and advisory was just added as a result of in-camera

[5:44:42] Trustee Elliott: or discussion so it is possible maybe we need to change objectives directives directive policies

[5:44:50] Trustee Elliott: and advisory policies um to make it

[5:44:54] Trustee Elliott: clearer yeah and so that's a good suggestion um i think staff

[5:45:00] Trustee Elliott: have recorded it and um we could move on okay thanks so

[5:45:10] Voice 9: this would be one if i'm not hearing

[5:45:11] Voice 9: otherwise we'll note it requested by consent if there's general agreement it's a minor change to

[5:45:17] Voice 9: a heading okay so

[5:45:19] Voice 9: do we need to vote on that or can we just that's the question of the body would

[5:45:22] Voice 9: you like a motion or can staff note it in the minutes as

[5:45:24] Trustee Elliott: staff decided by general consent that

[5:45:26] Trustee Elliott: we add the word uh to the title of objectives and directives policies they would now say

[5:45:33] Trustee Elliott: objectives directive policies and advisory policies hello can i

[5:45:47] Trustee Elliott: trustee fast thank

[5:45:50] Voice 15: you um maybe because i'm remote or because i've got this cold but i'm

[5:45:55] Voice 15: having difficulty following if people could give page numbers because every page has these words

[5:46:01] Voice 15: and i was looking somebody mentioned part three and i'm looking at objective three is that what

[5:46:07] Voice 15: what you meant. And page numbers would be really helpful. Because when I'm looking at objective

[5:46:13] Voice 15: three, I don't even see the word advisory. So I'm not sure what we're voting on. And if that I would

[5:46:19] Voice 15: be hating to do it by consent, if I don't know what my consent would be assumed to be. So if

[5:46:25] Voice 15: somebody can clarify that and page numbers would be fantastic. Thank you.

[5:46:29] Voice 15: 2

[5:46:30] Trustee Elliott: .15, I believe, where we are getting into part three, and it's titled Objectives and

[5:46:39] Trustee Elliott: Directive Policies.

[5:46:40] Trustee Elliott: Since a new category, Policy Policies, was added as a result of the in-camera Committee

[5:46:48] Trustee Elliott: of the Whole meetings, we haven't yet, or staff have not yet amended the title there.

[5:46:53] Trustee Elliott: And so that's all we're suggesting adding at this point.

[5:46:57] Trustee Elliott: but if we want to have a vote so that it's clear we can do that we're all good

[5:47:05] Trustee Elliott: not good okay would you like to advance a recommendation trustee Boland on sure

[5:47:20] Trustee Elliott: thank you I

[5:47:23] Trustee Evans: move that the committee of the whole

[5:47:25] Trustee Evans: request staff to adjust part three title to read objectives comma directive and

[5:47:37] Trustee Evans: and advisory policies and

[5:47:49] Trustee Elliott: seconded uh to your motion do you wish to speak to your motion

[5:47:54] Voice 9: uh speakers

[5:47:55] Trustee Elliott: on the motion

[5:47:55] Voice 9: or staff yes if i might counsel just remind you as you're in committee of

[5:47:59] Voice 9: the whole it's best to phrase your motions as recommendations rather than requests to staff

[5:48:04] Voice 9: thank you so

[5:48:07] Trustee Elliott: the motion if we could have it on or the recommendation apologies recommend to staff

[5:48:16] Trustee Elliott: adjust part three to read objectives directives and advisory policies just as

[5:48:21] Trustee Elliott: it is on the screen is everyone clear on the recommendation I'll call for the

[5:48:31] Trustee Elliott: vote all those in favor I'm

[5:48:44] Voice 7: 15 in favor

[5:48:46] Trustee Elliott: these lower your hands any opposed three

[5:48:57] Trustee Elliott: opposed the recommendation passes okay are we ready to we have a speaker's list

[5:49:06] Trustee Elliott: still so we're moving through the speaker's list and i believe uh trustee harris is next

[5:49:10] Trustee Elliott: thank

[5:49:11] Voice 18: you i'll keep it very short i just wanted to clarify something from the discussion we were

[5:49:17] Voice 18: having

[5:49:17] Trustee Elliott: okay point of privilege trustee bernardo i will ask you to pay attention to the table and

[5:49:24] Trustee Elliott: not side chatter you're distracting other trustees

[5:49:26] Voice 26: that is

[5:49:29] Trustee Elliott: disrespectful thank

[5:49:34] Voice 27: you trustee harris

[5:49:37] Voice 27: Thank

[5:49:38] Voice 18: you. I just wanted to speak shortly about our conversation about fee simple First Nations owned land. Just to clarify. So there, you know, there was some comments made that this isn't really a real world situation, but we're having this, this stuff is going on right now on Salt Spring Island.

[5:50:01] Voice 18: um so there are first nations that don't be simple land that are being affected and and coming to me

[5:50:09] Voice 18: um saying what what can we do we want to do this but we can't do it and the analyst trust is saying

[5:50:13] Voice 18: no so anyways um i it to me it's not complex in any way shape or form um this is a very very

[5:50:22] Voice 18: simple concept and if we were real about reconciliation um i would hope that we could

[5:50:27] Voice 18: actually um forward um a motion uh later today or tomorrow exempting um first nations um for

[5:50:37] Voice 18: my own stress bylaws thank you

[5:50:40] Voice 16: you're welcome you're next oh

[5:50:44] Trustee Luckham: thank you chair actually time

[5:50:46] Trustee Luckham: has marched on and i was gonna say what ben maybelley said and i'm in support of what

[5:50:52] Trustee Luckham: what Ben

[5:50:52] Voice 19: Mabry said earlier.

[5:50:54] Voice 19: Thank you.

[5:50:56] Trustee Elliott: Can you articulate?

[5:50:58] Trustee Luckham: Oh, fee-simple lands, First Nations title, persons,

[5:51:02] Trustee Luckham: and actually I'd add into that crown lands,

[5:51:05] Trustee Luckham: actually we zone crown lands without consideration

[5:51:07] Trustee Luckham: of First Nations title, and it's complex.

[5:51:11] Trustee Luckham: So, and I'll just add, I'm a little uncomfortable

[5:51:14] Trustee Luckham: about talking about First Nations individuals

[5:51:17] Trustee Luckham: and others' rights without those voices in the room.

[5:51:27] Voice 25: Thank you.

[5:51:30] Voice 39: I just want to, I said earlier that I think First Nations issues are kind of all-encompassing on all these things.

[5:51:42] Voice 39: So what I would like to propose is that we go to Section 3, the environment, which you want to get to.

[5:51:49] Voice 39: And, but what we do is, I just want to read what it says in the, it says in here that 95% of British Columbia, including Vancouver, is on unceded First Nations lands.

[5:52:07] Voice 39: So what that says is for us to go around the edges of it and say what we have to do, what we don't have to do in relations to First Nations.

[5:52:14] Voice 39: When we're all talking about land use planning on land on our island, it's all unceded.

[5:52:20] Voice 39: What they've agreed to at the treaty table, and I don't know about all of them, but many of the treaty tables simply said they will not apply the treaty lands on fee-simple land.

[5:52:34] Voice 39: Because they know it's politically impossible for the province or the federal government to enter into a treaty that would take away fee-simple land from people.

[5:52:46] Voice 39: So they're just being realistic in their treaty negotiations.

[5:52:48] Voice 39: So let's just leave it as a cloud that we can go back to later

[5:52:53] Voice 39: where we get these more detailed issues on the environment sorted out.

[5:52:57] Voice 39: Let's just leave it and not try to figure out what it means all over the place

[5:53:01] Voice 39: because I think we'll be here.

[5:53:02] Voice 39: There's not enough coffee over there to keep us all awake long enough.

[5:53:07] Voice 39: Thank you.

[5:53:13] Voice 25: Trustee Peters.

[5:53:18] Voice 20: Thank you.

[5:53:19] Voice 20: While we're busily twisting ourselves in knots over minutia on all of these items,

[5:53:25] Voice 20: And don't get me wrong, we need to do this work.

[5:53:28] Voice 20: But I do want to remind everyone, there is a policy statement amendment, policy 1.2.1.

[5:53:39] Voice 20: We're supposed to be doing this work on a regular basis.

[5:53:42] Voice 20: Notwithstanding the fact it's been 18 years, I just want to remind everyone, when we've completed this round, when we've completed all of this, we should be putting our minds,

[5:53:54] Voice 20: this work needs to be done on a regular basis.

[5:53:57] Voice 20: This work shouldn't be waiting 18 years in between reviews.

[5:54:01] Voice 20: And with that in mind,

[5:54:03] Voice 20: I think instead of getting caught up

[5:54:05] Voice 20: in theoretical future considerations,

[5:54:10] Voice 20: keeping in mind administrative fairness rules,

[5:54:14] Voice 20: that we need to remember,

[5:54:17] Voice 20: this is intended to be an iterative document.

[5:54:20] Voice 20: This is intended to be reviewed on a regular basis.

[5:54:25] Voice 20: That said, I'm not concerned about the words prioritize in these directives section on ecosystem integrity. Thank you.

[5:54:42] Voice 20: So

[5:54:46] Voice 25: I

[5:54:50] Trustee Evans: am concerned about those words prioritize in the directives policy because of the implications that they have.

[5:54:56] Trustee Evans: and i had given laurie a motion or a recommendation or whatever they're called

[5:55:03] Trustee Evans: i'm not sure if she's so okay i'll just wait for that to come up if she's got it ready

[5:55:15] Trustee Luckham: no

[5:55:15] Trustee Evans: that's that's the old no that's

[5:55:17] Trustee Evans: the old there is

[5:55:22] Trustee Elliott: still the speakers list um

[5:55:25] Trustee Elliott: which yeah i'm just letting everyone know yeah you're still on the list and that's

[5:55:30] Trustee Elliott: that's great so thank you for bringing a recommendation so

[5:55:33] Trustee Evans: um i can kind of do you

[5:55:35] Voice 29: have it ready um i thought this was amending this first um recommendation

[5:55:41] Voice 29: no okay

[5:55:44] Voice 26: so

[5:55:45] Trustee Evans: i'll speak to it first then while she's typing it up it's short

[5:55:48] Trustee Evans: i

[5:55:48] Trustee Elliott: carried that one

[5:55:49] Trustee Evans: um again these are directive policies they direct local trust committees and

[5:55:56] Trustee Evans: island municipalities in preparation of the official community plans and the bylaws and

[5:56:00] Trustee Evans: amendments that they shall identify and prioritize the environment above everything else so because

[5:56:10] Trustee Evans: it's being prioritized again above everything else i'm going to ask that i'm going to move

[5:56:20] Trustee Evans: that the Committee of the Whole recommend that the words and prioritize be removed

[5:56:41] Trustee Evans: in sections 3.3.2 to 3.3.7. So

[5:57:09] Trustee Elliott: it looks like we're having technical difficulties.

[5:57:13] Voice 27: Oh,

[5:57:16] Trustee Elliott: actually, and thank you for the motion. I just want to clarify, someone said that

[5:57:22] Trustee Elliott: the first motion that by trustee patrick was not voted on we voted on it thank you i'm not crazy

[5:57:29] Trustee Elliott: i feel like i'm on mushrooms

[5:57:30] Voice 26: would

[5:58:01] Trustee Elliott: you like to read out your motion and uh and then we can have

[5:58:04] Trustee Elliott: a discussion

[5:58:05] Trustee Evans: thank you i recommend that the committee of the whole recommend that the words

[5:58:10] Trustee Evans: and prioritize be removed from sections 3.3.2 to 3.3.7 i guess of objective three for clarity

[5:58:21] Trustee Evans: Can I

[5:58:21] Trustee Elliott: have a seconder on the motion? Seconded by Trustee Hunder. And to your motion? Discussion? No. Any speakers on the motion?

[5:58:31] Voice 18: Trustee Harris. Yes.

[5:58:32] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Harris and then staff.

[5:58:35] Voice 18: Sorry, my hand was up from before. I don't have anything to say on this.

[5:58:39] Trustee Elliott: And Trustee Bast, were you on the previous motion or do you want to, or?

[5:58:47] Trustee Elliott: I'd like to speak to this.

[5:58:48] Trustee Elliott: Speak to this motion. Excellent. Trustee Luckham also is on the list.

[5:58:52] Voice 15: I just want to say I won't be in voting in favor of this list, of this, sorry, recommendation.

[5:59:00] Voice 15: I think that the words and prioritize should stay in.

[5:59:05] Voice 15: As somebody who is a municipal councillor, I can see that there are municipalities that would not have language like this.

[5:59:12] Voice 15: But having this and prioritized language is one of the key special features of Islands Trust.

[5:59:23] Voice 15: And this is something that our community over on Bowen Island really values.

[5:59:28] Voice 15: And they would not become a they didn't vote to become a municipality until they were sure they would still be a member of the Islands Trust.

[5:59:38] Voice 15: It's key. And I'll be voting against this. Thank you.

[5:59:49] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Chair. I just would like to ask that in the abbreviations that we use, that we're consistent and that CO lowercase TW is much more preferable.

[6:00:00] Trustee Luckham: And I see you fixed it already.

[6:00:01] Trustee Luckham: Wow.

[6:00:02] Trustee Luckham: Awesome.

[6:00:02] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[6:00:07] Trustee Elliott: So any more speakers?

[6:00:09] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Patrick?

[6:00:13] Trustee Patrick: This section, I mean, the prioritize is about sensitive habitats.

[6:00:18] Trustee Patrick: It's about old forest.

[6:00:19] Trustee Patrick: It's about watersheds, marine shorelines, and near shorelines.

[6:00:23] Trustee Patrick: These are specific.

[6:00:26] Trustee Patrick: So it's asking, it's not generic of just prioritize environment.

[6:00:30] Trustee Patrick: It's about specific types of environment that this word prioritize is being linked to.

[6:00:35] Trustee Patrick: and i think it's appropriate i

[6:00:40] Trustee Elliott: put myself on the list um so i'm not in favor of this motion

[6:00:46] Trustee Elliott: um it's a really important point and i think it actually deserves more discussion than

[6:00:53] Trustee Elliott: three speakers i'd love to hear from other people in the room um and i want to reflect on

[6:01:01] Trustee Elliott: director marler what you were saying just going back to my notes here no

[6:01:21] Voice 27: i'm just thinking

[6:01:22] Voice 27: Can you give me a

[6:01:24] Trustee Elliott: second? So if we remove prioritization, what does that leave us with? You have to clarify that you have identified that area. What do you do about it? Your bylaw just says, identify the area. There's a sensitive ecosystem. You're not.

[6:01:53] Trustee Elliott: well and that's worthy of a conversation is what replaces prioritize if you're not

[6:01:57] Trustee Elliott: going to prioritize it what what consideration does it have in your decision making you've

[6:02:03] Trustee Elliott: considered all the other elements but you're not going to prioritize the environment then

[6:02:09] Trustee Elliott: why are we here i

[6:02:11] Voice 18: have an idea you're

[6:02:13] Trustee Elliott: out of order

[6:02:17] Trustee Elliott: so speakers on the motion do i have a list let's have a debate folks

[6:02:25] Voice 25: trustee evans i

[6:02:29] Trustee Evans: like that suggestion and so instead of and prioritize use and advance

[6:02:35] Trustee Evans: um that addresses the issue for me uh if by removing the word and prioritize all i'm saying

[6:02:42] Trustee Evans: for these sections because the very next one is healthy communities um and i'm looking at the

[6:02:50] Trustee Evans: object of the trust where it says unique amenities and the environment for the benefit blah blah blah

[6:02:55] Trustee Evans: so if we if i can amend the recommendation and instead of and and replace the word prioritize

[6:03:10] Trustee Evans: with advance yeah it's really distracting i i really suffer from from from that thank you

[6:03:20] Trustee Evans: so

[6:03:20] Trustee Elliott: we have a motion to amend which we'll have to vote on so

[6:03:27] Trustee Evans: again uh replace replace be replaced

[6:03:35] Trustee Evans: with advance so replace the word prioritize and replace with the word advance so the recommend

[6:03:50] Trustee Elliott: the original recommendation was moved and seconded now we have a motion to amend by the

[6:03:57] Trustee Elliott: original mover well which now belongs to the committee of the whole so do we want to vote on

[6:04:03] Trustee Elliott: the amendment can

[6:04:05] Trustee Evans: we remove the word and before prioritize that that so two

[6:04:10] Trustee Elliott: amendments okay no

[6:04:11] Trustee Evans: no it's the same one she just missed the removal of the word and or at and with advance one or the

[6:04:18] Trustee Evans: other okay

[6:04:20] Trustee Elliott: is council comfortable with not voting on an amendment and just allowing this okay

[6:04:29] Voice 26: recommends

[6:04:30] Trustee Elliott: that the words and prioritize be replaced with the word advance oh

[6:04:37] Voice 26: lori

[6:04:37] Trustee Elliott: could you remove the word and before prioritize

[6:04:48] Voice 26: yeah there

[6:04:49] Voice 27: we go okay

[6:04:51] Voice 26: that works okay okay so

[6:04:53] Trustee Elliott: continuing on with the speakers list

[6:04:58] Voice 25: just again i'll

[6:05:02] Voice 36: remove myself i'm satisfied with this

[6:05:06] Voice 25: trustee harris

[6:05:09] Voice 25: trustee harris um

[6:05:10] Voice 18: i would be more comfortable with something along the terms of may consider

[6:05:15] Voice 18: or consider or something along those lines something that isn't so um you know and all

[6:05:28] Voice 25: trustee graham

[6:05:32] Voice 38: thank you um well thank you for that uh addition there to and advance if those

[6:05:40] Voice 38: Those are equivalent terms, and I'm no sesquipedalian.

[6:05:45] Voice 38: I'm okay with that, but I don't want to wade into whether they're an equivalent.

[6:05:49] Voice 38: But if they are, then that's just fine by me.

[6:05:54] Voice 22: Trustee Bernardo.

[6:05:57] Voice 22: I'm withdrawing my place.

[6:05:59] Voice 22: I just wanted to address that advanced thing I'd spoken at a turn before, but that's all been covered.

[6:06:06] Voice 22: Trustee Fass.

[6:06:09] Voice 15: Thank you.

[6:06:10] Voice 15: I don't think that prioritize means the same as and advance.

[6:06:18] Voice 15: Prioritize says it goes to the front of the line,

[6:06:23] Voice 15: and advance means it could go just a little bit,

[6:06:26] Voice 15: and other things could go further.

[6:06:28] Voice 15: So I don't think they mean the same thing.

[6:06:31] Voice 15: And I think advance is a softer, less directive word.

[6:06:38] Voice 15: and I think the idea of prioritize is clear

[6:06:44] Voice 15: and I think it would help planners

[6:06:47] Voice 15: and community members and organizations in the future

[6:06:51] Voice 15: to understand what the Islands Trust is trying to do

[6:06:56] Voice 15: and of course us trustees.

[6:06:57] Voice 15: So I prefer, I'll be voting against this motion as well.

[6:07:02] Voice 15: Thank you.

[6:07:05] Voice 34: Trustee Bartholomew.

[6:07:09] Voice 34: And I'm just, I had a different point

[6:07:11] Voice 34: but it has changed as this language has shifted uh okay this is helping what laura is doing now

[6:07:19] Voice 34: it's advanced preservation protection uh okay i think that probably answers my question i i think

[6:07:25] Voice 34: uh i think this is very important i i would like for us to be very clear about what we

[6:07:32] Voice 34: um what we mean by advance and um but i yeah i i think my my point has shifted so

[6:07:42] Voice 34: jesse

[6:07:45] Voice 25: harris it

[6:07:47] Voice 18: still seems contradictory to section three the mandate i'd be more comfortable

[6:07:51] Voice 18: with the may put in in front of advance um i i'm so i'm not in favor of uh of either of these words

[6:07:59] Voice 18: Trustee Dodds?

[6:08:02] Voice 6: I really like advanced because to me it actually means you're going to do something.

[6:08:07] Voice 6: I see it as a more forward-thinking word. Obviously everything that we do is in balance

[6:08:13] Voice 6: between what people's needs are who live in our communities and of course preserving the natural

[6:08:19] Voice 6: environment that we have. So I really like the word advanced. I think we should keep that.

[6:08:24] Voice 6: Priorize is just not as, to me, user-friendly.

[6:08:30] Voice 25: Trustee Luckman?

[6:08:31] Voice 25: No,

[6:08:33] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Dodds let the cat out of the bag there, and I am in support of the change of the word.

[6:08:39] Trustee Luckham: It might be softer, but it is also purposeful, and it doesn't lose the original intent.

[6:08:47] Trustee Luckham: And so I'm in support of it.

[6:08:50] Trustee Luckham: And, Councillor, I'm really pleased that we're able to collaborate and work together to come up with solutions.

[6:08:55] Voice 19: Thank you.

[6:08:59] Voice 25: Trustee Yates.

[6:09:00] Voice 25: Thank you.

[6:09:02] Voice 3: if advance means we're actually going to do something about it that's great um but i'm

[6:09:09] Voice 3: pretty sure that anyone who voted for me knows that i with every decision i make for the islands

[6:09:18] Voice 3: trust both at council and locally that i prioritize environmental protection and indigenous cultural

[6:09:26] Voice 3: cultural heritage. And I, I want to continue to do that.

[6:09:32] Voice 25: Good work

[6:09:37] Trustee Elliott: council. Um,

[6:09:39] Trustee Elliott: are we ready to vote on the recommendation? Oh,

[6:09:43] Trustee Elliott: anyone?

[6:09:48] Voice 9: Okay. This is another moment where I'm going to ask council's indulgence to,

[6:09:52] Voice 9: to steer you a little bit and just encourage as you undertake these

[6:09:56] Voice 9: conversations.

[6:09:56] Voice 9: What I haven't heard during this debate is reflecting back on what you heard

[6:10:00] Voice 9: from nations there's been a lot of conversation earlier in the day around a desire to really

[6:10:05] Voice 9: accommodate the desires of nations to work in co-governance but i would just encourage you as

[6:10:09] Voice 9: you reflect on this you've you've got comments from nations about this language and these concepts

[6:10:15] Voice 9: not to say that you're on the wrong track or the right track i would just encourage as you

[6:10:19] Voice 9: undertake these debates it may be that you want to appoint someone to have the commentary and bring

[6:10:23] Voice 9: bring that voice into this conversation because as you're undertaking this i'm under you know

[6:10:27] Voice 9: we're sort of steering back into our past patterns i think of of reacting on the fly and not

[6:10:33] Voice 9: necessarily giving the commentary that a lot of work and thought has gone into necessarily the

[6:10:38] Voice 9: weight that it's been given i don't want to steer this conversation i just want to take this moment

[6:10:42] Voice 9: because i think it's an apropos moment to just reflect that to you that as you undertake this

[6:10:47] Voice 9: we've we've joked as staff sometimes it would be good to have whereas clauses to really explain

[6:10:52] Voice 9: the rationale for a choice this is the circumstance where it might be really helpful as i go back

[6:10:57] Voice 9: to nations and explain why we're choosing the word if you choose to advance this why you would

[6:11:02] Voice 9: choose the word advance over prioritize um i'm just wanting to note that for you as you're having

[6:11:07] Voice 9: this conversation before you move on to the next step um as this is one i will have to take back

[6:11:11] Voice 9: for you and provide your rationale for why this change is occurring if you choose to undertake it

[6:11:18] Voice 9: and i just wanted to raise those points with you before you move forward not to caution this is

[6:11:22] Voice 9: a point of caution. It's just a point of reflection, I guess, as we undertake these debates.

[6:11:30] Voice 9: Thank you. Trustee Getty?

[6:11:35] Voice 36: Director Frieder, can you help us and remind us some of the comments

[6:11:38] Voice 36: with respect to this language?

[6:11:43] Voice 9: I've simply been able to quickly, as I stand here, go back through

[6:11:46] Voice 9: what was said in response to the draft in written form on the submissions that you've got on the

[6:11:51] Voice 9: the website. That's all he was able to do. And simply, you find agreement with it as drafted now.

[6:11:56] Voice 9: There's no particular commentary one way or the other. And of course, we can't reflect what they

[6:12:00] Voice 9: might think of the word advance versus prioritize. Just as a point, as you undertake this work,

[6:12:05] Voice 9: I think it would be in keeping with the mood and the intention expressed this morning to try and

[6:12:10] Voice 9: weave that in in some manner as you undertake these debates.

[6:12:22] Trustee Elliott: I actually just want to note,

[6:12:24] Trustee Elliott: Alex Allen, you did provide us

[6:12:27] Trustee Elliott: a consolidated list of First Nations feedback in an email.

[6:12:32] Trustee Elliott: Thank you for that. Does Council want to take a little more time

[6:12:36] Trustee Elliott: with this? It's a recommendation.

[6:12:47] Voice 26: If

[6:12:48] Trustee Elliott: we're ready to vote, all those in favour

[6:12:51] Trustee Elliott: of the recommendation, raise your hand.

[6:13:01] Voice 26: I've got nine. Nine in

[6:13:04] Trustee Elliott: favour. Please lower your hands.

[6:13:09] Trustee Elliott: All those opposed, please raise your hand.

[6:13:11] Trustee Elliott: Do I get to vote?

[6:13:12] Trustee Elliott: Yes.

[6:13:12] Trustee Elliott: 1, 2,

[6:13:13] Voice 26: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 opposed, that fails.

[6:13:23] Trustee Elliott: 14 opposed, that fails.

[6:13:25] Trustee Elliott: There's 24 trustees.

[6:13:26] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[6:13:27] Trustee Elliott: 24 trustees total.

[6:13:29] Trustee Elliott: Excellent discussion.

[6:13:30] Trustee Elliott: Thank you, council.

[6:13:32] Trustee Elliott: Do we have an original speaker's list on something before that topic?

[6:13:38] Trustee Elliott: No.

[6:13:38] Trustee Elliott: Don't think we did.

[6:13:40] Trustee Elliott: okay 246 let's do a check-in we're meant to go to 330 yeah

[6:13:48] Voice 26: we got 45 minutes

[6:13:49] Voice 26: oh

[6:13:50] Trustee Elliott: wow you really wanted to give me some sharing time here

[6:14:03] Trustee Elliott: bio break

[6:14:05] Voice 26: well

[6:14:06] Trustee Elliott: at 3 30 it's 45 minutes

[6:14:07] Voice 26: your phone where

[6:14:10] Trustee Elliott: do you want to go from here

[6:14:16] Trustee Elliott: object we can if there's still discussion on this section objective three if folks want to

[6:14:23] Trustee Elliott: address anything else yes let's go uh trustee bernardo yeah roland uh

[6:14:28] Voice 22: 3.31

[6:14:29] Voice 22: one um there's supposed to be a policy right a directive policy so it's kind of like an

[6:14:39] Voice 22: instruction about how we're supposed to design the bylaws so every time we design a bylaw we're

[6:14:44] Voice 22: spoke to spoke supposed to take into consideration these factors apply them if necessary and i am

[6:14:51] Voice 22: perplexed as to how we do this one in the preparation of a bylaw because it's not a

[6:14:59] Voice 22: consideration it's an operational directive identify establish and maintain a network

[6:15:04] Voice 22: of protected areas etc etc identify okay protect i could get but to establish

[6:15:14] Voice 22: how does that work in a bylaw which is about managing and

[6:15:19] Voice 22: putting conditions on land use on private property how do we establish networks in

[6:15:26] Voice 22: in passing regulatory by-laws?

[6:15:27] Voice 22: It seems a little, I'm not sure the wording is right.

[6:15:40] Voice 40: Yeah, I have a problem with the word restore, restoration.

[6:15:45] Voice 40: It's sprinkled throughout and I can understand Parks Canada,

[6:15:51] Voice 40: I can understand the Island Trust Conservancy perhaps,

[6:15:54] Voice 40: but we're about protecting and managing

[6:16:00] Voice 40: managing and preserving what's there i think to say that we could have a restoration aspect is a

[6:16:10] Voice 40: bit ambitious but i'm open to discussion i want to hear what other people think about the word

[6:16:14] Voice 40: restoration sprinkled throughout i think it's you know rather typical of our um large-scale

[6:16:24] Voice 40: ambitions let's say thanks um

[6:16:31] Voice 3: yeah i think this is great because it's not just about bylaws

[6:16:36] Voice 3: established um it's also about how council works in collaboration and cooperation with other

[6:16:42] Voice 3: agencies it's about a lot of our advocacy work it's about islands trust conservancy work where

[6:16:49] Voice 3: where, in fact, we do support restoration and we do support integrated networks of protection.

[6:16:57] Voice 3: So I think this fits very nicely in with the trust policy statement.

[6:17:08] Voice 15: Trustee Fast.

[6:17:11] Voice 15: Thank you.

[6:17:13] Voice 15: I'll give a couple of examples from Bowen Island that I hope will support the idea of keeping 3.3.1 and 3.3.2 as they are.

[6:17:26] Voice 15: And I kind of hope that word advance goes out of 3.3.2 when you get a chance, Laurie.

[6:17:30] Voice 15: But anyway, it's distracting.

[6:17:34] Voice 15: I, oh, where did my notes go?

[6:17:38] Voice 15: There they are.

[6:17:39] Voice 15: In 3.3.1, I agree with the previous speaker who I couldn't see, but it might have been Susan Yates, was saying we don't just work through bylaws.

[6:17:52] Voice 15: We also have relationships and we do Islands Trust Conservancy things and we have OCPs or we approve OCPs and we amend official community plans.

[6:18:03] Voice 15: And in our official community plan on Bowen, we have language around greenways.

[6:18:10] Voice 15: And in our parks plan, we have a conceptual greenway plan that shows some parts of the network of protected areas is still to be established.

[6:18:26] Voice 15: Part of it is established and you can see the connections and it points out where those connections might be made.

[6:18:32] Voice 15: So that's the kind of island-wide planning. And it also helps others in our community, like the conservation groups or the individual landowners who might want to contribute to a network of protected areas.

[6:18:47] Voice 15: areas. Moving on to 3.3.2, the word restoration. This is something that the community groups on

[6:18:57] Voice 15: Bowen Island have been involved in, and more recently, Bowen Island Municipality. But before

[6:19:03] Voice 15: that, Bowen Island Conservancy restored, in partnership with others, a quarry that had been

[6:19:13] Voice 15: dug out of a wetland and eventually it became a park so that's just a few examples I think

[6:19:22] Voice 15: restoration is happening on lots of the islands not always by the islands trust but prioritizing

[6:19:30] Voice 15: those kinds of work preservation protection and restoration I think is really important and it

[6:19:39] Voice 15: It is happening on our islands now.

[6:19:41] Voice 15: Thank you.

[6:19:43] Voice 25: Trustee Borswick.

[6:19:49] Voice 34: Yeah, I mean, I also, I don't have a problem with the word restoration.

[6:19:54] Voice 34: I think because, and I understand the concerns that Trustee Boland was bringing up, but as Susan Yates said, I think that this is about, I mean, this is a broad document.

[6:20:11] Voice 34: This is a broad set of guiding principles. And, you know, we do have many of the islands, I know, I know, Gabriela and both, both Demin and Gabriela have had, you know, pretty, pretty severe deforestation histories, and the recovery of those, those areas is a key part of, of what our communities, you know, want to see for the future.

[6:20:40] Voice 34: and uh having that through line of of you know yeah it's it's not just preservation and protection

[6:20:49] Voice 34: it's also allowing for the healing and restoration of those those those lands to uh support our

[6:20:55] Voice 34: communities in the long run and i i think this document is supposed to be high level enough that

[6:21:00] Voice 34: this is not uh about going around you know telling people to go and plant more trees i think there's

[6:21:06] Voice 34: plenty of people who want to do that but we should be supporting that generally through the work

[6:21:12] Trustee Elliott: And we originally had Trustee Getty on the list and she deferred to Trustee Fass.

[6:21:17] Trustee Elliott: We'll go back to Trustee Getty and then Hunter.

[6:21:19] Voice 36: In addition to what Trustee Fass was talking about on Bowen, we also in the mapping can identify

[6:21:27] Voice 36: and a lot of times with members of the Conservancy identify areas that need protecting

[6:21:33] Voice 36: or that have critical habitat for species at risk.

[6:21:38] Voice 36: And, you know, it gets down to little red-legged frogs and newts and different owls and things, but we can put that in as an amenity in terms of somebody wanting to develop and keep them away from certain areas and maybe give them a little bit more density or allow them to be a little farther over towards their property line.

[6:21:58] Voice 36: So it does come into zoning and planning as well in terms of preserving.

[6:22:02] Voice 36: And we've done a lot of restoration with groups from UBC and the Conservancy and a whole bunch of other local groups,

[6:22:13] Voice 36: the Nature Club in terms of the eelgrass meadows and the fresh water and the remote little springs that come up and have wetlands

[6:22:24] Voice 36: so that we don't have development and septics going in there.

[6:22:27] Voice 36: So, all of this is quite important on Bowen.

[6:22:31] Voice 36: No time.

[6:22:36] Voice 36: Whoops, sorry.

[6:22:38] Voice 19: Thank you. I'd like to talk about 3.3.3 for a minute. Forest ecosystems.

[6:22:45] Voice 19: I'm wondering why the Western Red Cedar is left off that list, which I think is probably the most important species to the natives.

[6:22:55] Voice 19: Anyway, also, this doesn't apply, of course, to managed forest land.

[6:23:01] Voice 19: And I wonder if the public's reading this, do we need to put a disclaimer or is it just obviously obvious that it doesn't apply?

[6:23:10] Voice 19: I mean, I have a contract with the provincial government to manage it, which I have to follow certain rules and they inspect it every five years.

[6:23:19] Voice 19: And so I'll leave it there.

[6:23:25] Voice 22: Trustee Bernardo.

[6:23:28] Voice 22: Yeah. When I raised this point about 3.1, it's a genuine question because I don't understand how it's going to work. If you look at the preamble language, it says local trust committee shall in preparation of regulatory bylaws and amendments, blah, blah, blah, it goes on with the subsections.

[6:23:48] Voice 22: When it says that, it says local trust, that's saying that local trust committee shall do that in the preparation of all regulatory bylaws.

[6:24:00] Voice 22: There's no qualification here.

[6:24:01] Voice 22: What I'm struggling with is 3.3.1 isn't a regulatory provision.

[6:24:08] Voice 22: It's an operational provision.

[6:24:12] Voice 22: It's an objective to actually get a kind of a service outcome.

[6:24:16] Voice 22: It's not regulating land use.

[6:24:19] Voice 22: it's an objective like i mean how does it work in a regulatory land use bylaw

[6:24:24] Voice 22: unless you work in something nutty like expropriation how do you establish a network

[6:24:31] Voice 22: uh of these properties through you know uh you know of what that thing is contemplating

[6:24:36] Voice 22: um so really this is a question for for staff operationally like the staff has to screen all

[6:24:44] Voice 22: all proposed bylaws against the trust policy statement.

[6:24:47] Voice 22: How the heck does that happen with respect to that provision

[6:24:51] Voice 22: when frankly, most of our bylaws have nothing to do

[6:24:56] Voice 22: with establishing things.

[6:24:59] Voice 22: They're about regulating what people do with their property,

[6:25:02] Voice 22: not forcing them to do things with their land.

[6:25:06] Voice 22: So how does staff interpret this

[6:25:09] Voice 22: in the practical application term?

[6:25:11] Voice 22: How would that work?

[6:25:15] Trustee Elliott: Yeah,

[6:25:15] Voice 7: I'll respond to the second part first, actually. So the current policy statement

[6:25:22] Voice 7: has similar type of policies in it. And the way that happens is the staff review the actual

[6:25:31] Voice 7: rezoning, or the actual amendment that the Trust Committee is making, and look at whether

[6:25:36] Voice 7: or not any of the policies are engaged and how they're engaged. So right now, we'll indicate

[6:25:41] Voice 7: this one doesn't apply when you know we're not looking at that it may just be

[6:25:47] Voice 7: four or five the policies would apply and those are the ones that we would

[6:25:50] Voice 7: focus on and that can be addressed through the implementation policy that

[6:25:56] Voice 7: can address how staff would be making recommendations so it recognizes that

[6:26:03] Voice 7: some of these policies are kind of island wide and it makes sense when

[6:26:08] Voice 7: when you're doing an LCP review of the entire island,

[6:26:11] Voice 7: that you're opening it up and you want to rewrite your LCP.

[6:26:14] Voice 7: That makes sense.

[6:26:16] Voice 7: But it doesn't really make sense if you're dealing with a site-specific rezoning

[6:26:19] Voice 7: that really doesn't have any ecosystems or anything like that.

[6:26:24] Voice 7: But it might make sense if you're dealing with really large parcels of land

[6:26:28] Voice 7: where there is potential for protection in different areas.

[6:26:32] Voice 7: So it comes down to a bit of a judgment by the local trust committee.

[6:26:36] Voice 7: and then staff would provide the advice on that.

[6:26:39] Voice 7: So the implementation policy can help

[6:26:42] Voice 7: by clarifying how these policies would be implemented

[6:26:47] Voice 7: or how staff will make recommendations.

[6:26:50] Voice 7: And then just the first question,

[6:26:52] Voice 7: how can you maintain or create protected areas in your bylaws?

[6:26:58] Voice 7: You start with your official community plan at a high level

[6:27:01] Voice 7: and just identify using overlays,

[6:27:04] Voice 7: maybe sensitive ecosystem mapping

[6:27:06] Voice 7: where these things exist in very general terms

[6:27:09] Voice 7: and then in your OCP you'd have

[6:27:13] Voice 7: policies around how you would protect them. It may be

[6:27:16] Voice 7: that when a rezoning comes in you want to

[6:27:19] Voice 7: divert development away from those

[6:27:22] Voice 7: locations or you want to establish

[6:27:25] Voice 7: development permit areas to protect them. So there's a whole bunch of tools

[6:27:28] Voice 7: that we can use to do that. So I hope that helps

[6:27:31] Voice 7: So that's how that would actually be practically operationalized.

[6:27:38] Voice 22: Well, it is helpful.

[6:27:39] Voice 22: Thank you, because what I heard from that, and I hope I'm right, is that when the staff applies, you know, screens a bylaw against the trust policy statement, there's a relevance criterion here in terms of, like, this policy just, it's just not relevant to the thing, so you move on.

[6:27:56] Voice 22: So I get it.

[6:27:56] Voice 22: Thank you.

[6:28:00] Voice 25: Chair Elliott.

[6:28:02] Trustee Elliott: Oh, the power of that word.

[6:28:04] Trustee Elliott: right um i actually wanted to go back to the word maintain so identify establish and maintain

[6:28:13] Trustee Elliott: i do wonder if that's appropriate um maintain is a an active ongoing activity usually undertaken by

[6:28:24] Trustee Elliott: um community groups um or the conservancy and this is a directive policy uh towards

[6:28:31] Trustee Elliott: towards having that in your official community plan i wonder if it could be better used the word

[6:28:37] Trustee Elliott: support instead of maintain so that was trustee yates idea my goodness shocking so i can put

[6:28:49] Trustee Elliott: together a recommendation but let's keep moving through the speaker's list trustee

[6:28:54] Voice 25: harris thank

[6:28:58] Voice 18: you this it still brings us back to the point that this is contradictory to section three of

[6:29:06] Voice 18: the mandate that these policies that are that are being stated here in this whole directives

[6:29:11] Voice 18: policies list all of them make it harder to protect um the unique amenities which may include

[6:29:24] Voice 18: housing community livelihoods this car it's you know it has a negative value to those things that

[6:29:29] Voice 18: we need to protect um and it brings us right back to the conversation that people wanted to stop

[6:29:34] Voice 18: that there's plenty of first nations who own fee simple land that this is going to

[6:29:38] Voice 18: impact so hugely people say you don't feel comfortable without them in the room speaking

[6:29:43] Voice 18: about it but you're happy to speak about it and it will affect their um their livelihoods and way

[6:29:49] Voice 18: of life so i'm really confused how this can just be completely ignored and going on as business as

[6:29:55] Voice 18: usual um i'm perplexed at this whole uh thing

[6:29:59] Voice 18: Thank you.

[6:30:03] Voice 25: I

[6:30:05] Trustee Evans: have a question, 3.3.2 to 3.3.7, uses the word restoration, and I may have missed a bit of the conversation.

[6:30:17] Trustee Evans: How does the LTC in their official community plans and bylaws and amendments restore all of this stuff?

[6:30:36] Trustee Elliott: Good points.

[6:30:37] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[6:30:41] Trustee Elliott: Director Zermatt.

[6:30:43] Voice 21: Pardon me, I haven't spoken in a while.

[6:30:44] Voice 21: Hi, thank you very much.

[6:30:46] Voice 21: This is, you know, the LTC is not going to get the shovels in the ground,

[6:30:50] Voice 21: but these are policies meant to support those groups that will be doing so.

[6:30:54] Voice 21: And we can find numerous examples whereby people, you know,

[6:30:58] Voice 21: are going through, for example, a rezoning application.

[6:31:01] Voice 21: They propose to protect an area via covenant in those terms of the agreements,

[6:31:06] Voice 21: have things like restore.

[6:31:07] Voice 21: So this is meant to guide.

[6:31:09] Voice 21: It doesn't have to be word-by-word every single part of it, but it certainly is a very useful term to have from a planner perspective.

[6:31:21] Voice 25: So, Trustee Yates and Patrick.

[6:31:24] Voice 3: My comment was just to replace the word maintain with support, as Trustee Elliott already asked.

[6:31:32] Voice 8: I think

[6:31:37] Trustee Patrick: restoration is a very important part because that's been commented quite often when we have our preserve and protect mandate.

[6:31:43] Trustee Patrick: data we're just presuming technically what we have are we trying to improve in and improve the

[6:31:49] Trustee Patrick: overall values of what we have and i think it's important i think it it is an important word

[6:31:55] Trustee Patrick: because we're not just trying to hang on to what's left we want to actually restore and make things

[6:31:59] Trustee Patrick: even better as regard to maintain i understand what you're trying to do but i think protective

[6:32:05] Trustee Patrick: areas and and um you know a network of protected areas these are all we're dealing with live

[6:32:14] Trustee Patrick: things, change and grow, and I think actually the word

[6:32:18] Trustee Patrick: maintain, because it's just being aware of as you're not

[6:32:21] Trustee Patrick: taking away from the protected areas that are being there either, so

[6:32:25] Trustee Patrick: I think maintain is actually an okay word. Just a grant

[6:32:33] Voice 25: of Scott.

[6:32:39] Voice 25: I'd just like

[6:32:43] Voice 39: to add the words that Ken

[6:32:46] Voice 39: mentioned, Western Red Cedar, it's absolutely

[6:32:50] Voice 39: it should say douglas for western red cedar in that order i think

[6:32:57] Trustee Elliott: and so that's it 3

[6:32:58] Trustee Elliott: .3.3 you're suggesting the word western red cedar be added okay

[6:33:05] Trustee Elliott: we'll have to we might do a group of recommendations um okay

[6:33:12] Voice 25: so we're bernardo

[6:33:13] Voice 25: bernardo who's there trustee bernardo then trustee getty

[6:33:22] Voice 22: um uh with this uh as we're playing line with language here about this maintain aspect i mean

[6:33:28] Voice 22: that the trustee elliott's got a a fair point here because the word maintain does have a

[6:33:35] Voice 22: among its potential meanings there's a kind of a service delivery component to that and we're not

[6:33:41] Voice 22: in the service delivery business i think the word maintain here is trying to get at the preserve

[6:33:46] Voice 22: concept which is you have this network and then you preserve it so perhaps you might want to

[6:33:52] Voice 22: consider replacing maintain with preserve i'm not going to make the motion i'm just throwing the

[6:33:57] Voice 22: idea out and yet again for me another dreary lawyer comment um this use of this concept of

[6:34:06] Voice 22: restore uh my spidey sense starts to tingle because i i just i'm pretty simplistic about

[6:34:12] Voice 22: these things i go back to section three what's our jurisdiction it's not clear to me we've got

[6:34:16] Voice 22: the jurisdiction to be thinking in terms of restoration that's not what the statute says

[6:34:22] Voice 22: statute doesn't as far as i you know director marler can correct me but as far as i can tell

[6:34:28] Voice 22: uh that concept does not exist inside the islands trust act either rehabilitation or restoration so

[6:34:34] Voice 22: So are we going too far afield outside of our jurisdiction to attempt to impose that on LTCs through the trust policy statement?

[6:34:44] Voice 22: Again, I'm not arguing the point one way or the other.

[6:34:47] Voice 22: It's another one of, and I think we're going to have to do this with a lot of this stuff.

[6:34:52] Voice 22: It's a legal interpretive point that I'd like to get some clarity on.

[6:34:55] Voice 22: Thank you.

[6:34:58] Voice 7: Yeah, I don't think it is outside.

[6:35:00] Voice 7: I believe it is not outside the jurisdiction in my mind a couple of reasons one is that

[6:35:09] Voice 7: case law applies and one of the biggest case laws was Denman Island local trust committee versus

[6:35:17] Voice 7: who was that yeah it's on commerce bluff to do with the development permit and the judge did

[6:35:25] Voice 7: that required restoration and felt that that was

[6:35:29] Voice 7: an appropriate request. That was because

[6:35:33] Voice 7: it was a violation of the development permit area.

[6:35:37] Voice 7: Local trust communities can also use covenants. So an example of restoration

[6:35:41] Voice 7: could be a rezoning application where

[6:35:45] Voice 7: there's identified on the property and you have policies saying that

[6:35:49] Voice 7: you want to preserve, protect and restore sensitive ecosystems.

[6:35:53] Voice 7: ecosystems. And so rezoning comes in and there's a

[6:35:57] Voice 7: identified ecosystem. The trust committee would be well within its rights

[6:36:01] Voice 7: to require that that be restored as part of the

[6:36:05] Voice 7: agreement to rezone and could require confidence to make sure that

[6:36:09] Voice 7: that restoration occurs. So I think you have the tools and I think

[6:36:13] Voice 7: you have the jurisdiction. So I've got no concerns

[6:36:17] Voice 7: with it being in here.

[6:36:20] Voice 25: Trustee Fast.

[6:36:29] Voice 15: sorry switching around between screens um with regard to um the western red cedar uh comment

[6:36:39] Voice 15: i see that in 3.3.3 it says uh stands of relatively undisturbed coastal douglas fir

[6:36:46] Voice 15: uh and we could put western red cedar in and then at the end there is where it gets mixed up i

[6:36:53] Voice 15: I wonder if it could say and stands in associated ecosystems or something.

[6:36:59] Voice 15: There needs to be where it just says and their associated ecosystems.

[6:37:05] Voice 15: I think it needs, at the very end, it needs to be clear that it's also stands of trees in associated ecosystems of coastal Douglas fir and western red cedar, whatever.

[6:37:27] Voice 15: If staff can tweak that wording, right now it's talking about trees in the first half of the sentence, stands of trees.

[6:37:34] Voice 15: And then in the last little bit there, and associated ecosystems, it's talking about ecosystems, some of which might not have trees in them, if I'm understanding this correctly.

[6:37:47] Voice 15: But I have no problem with putting Western Red Cedar in there.

[6:37:50] Voice 15: Maybe it could be cleaned up so that it's clear to everybody, including me.

[6:37:55] Voice 15: And then going back to the word maintain.

[6:37:59] Voice 15: Can you

[6:37:59] Trustee Elliott: pause before we add two points?

[6:38:04] Trustee Elliott: So we want clarification as to the intent of adding and their associated ecosystems.

[6:38:13] Trustee Elliott: So 3.3.3.

[6:38:15] Trustee Elliott: So can you pause on your second point and we can get some clarity on that?

[6:38:20] Trustee Elliott: Sure.

[6:38:22] Voice 15: And their associated ecosystems is in there already.

[6:38:28] Voice 15: So I guess if I was reading this, it would say,

[6:38:31] Voice 15: and particular focus on remaining da da da da da da da and their associated ecosystems

[6:38:39] Voice 15: it seems like one part of the sentence says stands that looks like trees and i can totally

[6:38:45] Voice 15: understand trustee scott and others who want to make sure the cedar are in there

[6:38:52] Voice 15: but usually in conservation planning through the island's trust conservancy and

[6:38:58] Voice 15: And usually it's in terms of which ecosystems are rare and which, and coastal Douglas fir and their associated ecosystems is a phrase you hear a lot because Bowen, for example, doesn't have any coastal Douglas fir.

[6:39:16] Voice 15: Like, why does it say, I'm just confused, concerned that the ideas are getting confused.

[6:39:22] Voice 15: It says coastal Douglas fir, why wouldn't it just say Douglas fir?

[6:39:25] Trustee Elliott: Let's get clarity from staff.

[6:39:26] Trustee Elliott: staff, does their associated ecosystems relate to those stands? Or is this a separate piece that is

[6:39:35] Trustee Elliott: also to be identified and protected?

[6:39:42] Voice 9: So this is one where you may want us to do further work and

[6:39:45] Voice 9: come back to you. Because as I read it here, it says identify the forest ecosystems and

[6:39:51] Voice 9: prioritize preservation, protection, restoration of these unfragmented forest ecosystems

[6:39:56] Voice 9: ecosystems, with a particular focus on a type of stand, those last four words and their

[6:40:01] Voice 9: associated ecosystems does add an entirely new concept around ecosystems that might not

[6:40:07] Voice 9: be stands of forests.

[6:40:08] Voice 9: So it may be that we could remove those, and those associated ecosystems are highly likely

[6:40:13] Voice 9: to have been covered off in the policy above, which is the sensitive ecosystems.

[6:40:17] Voice 9: But not being a biologist, I wouldn't want to state that categorically in this moment,

[6:40:21] Voice 9: but i suspect we can probably take off those that final clause without impacting you know the the

[6:40:29] Voice 9: actual impact on ecology too badly um but would want to just check in with a biologist first

[6:40:36] Voice 15: uh back if if it's back to me that would satisfy me there's just some disconnect there that i

[6:40:41] Voice 15: wouldn't want people to um be confused and not carry it out you know and uh um so that would

[6:40:51] Voice 15: would be great if staff can come back with about that and the second one in 3.3.2 above

[6:40:59] Voice 15: I like the word oh sorry yeah the word maintain I like the word maintain because it implies

[6:41:10] Voice 15: ecological processes without which an ecosystem can't live so outside of the dotted lines around

[6:41:20] Voice 15: the little let's say wetland that is that is protected there's all the

[6:41:26] Voice 15: surface water moving and if it you know some development or or drainage happens

[6:41:32] Voice 15: next door that's going to affect the protected area that has the wetland in

[6:41:40] Voice 15: it so I like the idea of keeping the word maintained there because it gives

[6:41:43] Voice 15: gives a more of a, I hate to say,

[6:41:48] Voice 15: freshwater infrastructure,

[6:41:50] Voice 15: but there's other processes as well,

[6:41:53] Voice 15: such as maintaining predators in the bigger landscape

[6:41:56] Voice 15: so that your protected areas can continue.

[6:42:01] Voice 15: And so I support the word maintain

[6:42:04] Voice 15: because it relates to processes

[6:42:07] Voice 15: that can happen beyond the boundaries.

[6:42:10] Voice 15: Thank you.

[6:42:12] Voice 15: Thank you, Trustee Fass.

[6:42:13] Trustee Elliott: And your passion for conservation is definitely showing through.

[6:42:19] Trustee Elliott: On the speaker's list?

[6:42:21] Voice 25: Trustee Boland.

[6:42:22] Trustee Elliott: Boland.

[6:42:25] Voice 40: It's a different topic.

[6:42:27] Voice 40: Is that all right?

[6:42:28] Voice 40: Or do you want to finish this first?

[6:42:30] Trustee Elliott: Well, we've got a number of amendments proposed.

[6:42:34] Trustee Elliott: And so I'm thankful staff is tracking them.

[6:42:37] Trustee Elliott: I do think we should, as long as we're sticking with this section.

[6:42:43] Trustee Elliott: Yeah.

[6:42:45] Trustee Elliott: I'd rather not skip into another part of the document

[6:42:48] Voice 40: I'm in part three

[6:42:50] Voice 40: objectives

[6:42:51] Voice 40: is that okay

[6:42:52] Voice 40: but I have gone back to advancing

[6:42:55] Voice 40: reconciliation

[6:42:58] Voice 40: okay

[6:43:04] Voice 40: okay I'll do it later

[6:43:08] Voice 25: Trustee Allen

[6:43:09] Voice 25: I

[6:43:16] Voice 4: was just going to give another example

[6:43:17] Voice 4: restoration

[6:43:19] Voice 4: Trustee Bernardo

[6:43:20] Voice 4: on Hormie, an individual bought some property and started building

[6:43:25] Voice 4: right next to a Gary Oak Covenant and totally

[6:43:28] Voice 4: damaged a very huge section of it.

[6:43:33] Voice 4: And so we did have to work with the Conservancy on restoration.

[6:43:39] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Luckum. Thank you.

[6:43:44] Trustee Luckham: We get spread around quite a bit. Thanks for the focus,

[6:43:49] Trustee Luckham: Chair Elliott. I just, on that

[6:43:52] Trustee Luckham: whole uh their associated ecosystems i'm concerned about letting getting too lost in too much detail

[6:44:00] Trustee Luckham: but um strikes me that gary oak and their associated ecosystems is the phraseology i'm

[6:44:07] Trustee Luckham: familiar with and because there's a specific ecosystem type associated with gary oak which

[6:44:12] Trustee Luckham: is very different than stands of timber and i wouldn't want to lose that yeah

[6:44:22] Voice 25: trustee scott

[6:44:24] Voice 25: and professional forester this

[6:44:28] Voice 39: is something I'm actually supposed to know

[6:44:30] Voice 39: something about now I'm not going to say in relation to everything else I've said

[6:44:37] Voice 39: today but I like the term I like the way it was before because standard trees is

[6:44:45] Voice 39: just a bunch of trees but it's just as important to have the salal you know

[6:44:50] Voice 39: Simone Simard you know the thing about all the micro rhizomes all that stuff is

[6:44:54] Voice 39: It's vitally important to the trees and the stands.

[6:44:57] Voice 39: So I'd like to see that and their associated ecosystems left in.

[6:45:02] Voice 39: I kind of liked it.

[6:45:11] Voice 25: Trustee Evans.

[6:45:14] Trustee Evans: I'm also going to mirror what Trustee Grant said.

[6:45:23] Trustee Evans: Because, for example, with the Gary Oaks, you have the camas flowers you've got.

[6:45:27] Trustee Evans: They are related together.

[6:45:29] Trustee Evans: You can't have one without the other.

[6:45:31] Trustee Evans: So the ecosystems has to stay in.

[6:45:33] Trustee Evans: in my opinion filthy

[6:45:36] Voice 25: fast thank

[6:45:38] Voice 15: you and that's a great point and uh i think i've got a possibility

[6:45:42] Voice 15: would be to replace the words and their associated ecosystems with and the associated ecosystems

[6:45:49] Voice 15: that support them or that support the trees that support the stands or them yeah

[6:46:07] Trustee Elliott: treading in the

[6:46:09] Trustee Elliott: biologist

[6:46:09] Trustee Elliott: waters here.

[6:46:13] Voice 25: Trustee Patrick.

[6:46:14] Trustee Patrick: Is that wrong?

[6:46:17] Trustee Patrick: I went back and looked at the

[6:46:18] Trustee Patrick: former policy statement and I think

[6:46:20] Trustee Patrick: I can see kind of what happened. I think there was

[6:46:22] Trustee Patrick: just some mix up of, there were two concepts

[6:46:24] Trustee Patrick: that were put together. I think

[6:46:26] Trustee Patrick: this is a return to

[6:46:29] Trustee Patrick: biologists and get some clarity to

[6:46:30] Trustee Patrick: make sure this is read correctly.

[6:46:32] Trustee Patrick: So I think that would be the advice

[6:46:34] Trustee Patrick: on this one.

[6:46:37] Trustee Elliott: So just before we move on,

[6:46:39] Trustee Elliott: if somebody could make a recommendation to refer this section to some of our professionals

[6:46:46] Trustee Elliott: on staff, that would be helpful. Thanks.

[6:46:51] Voice 25: So Trustee Boland, then Trustee Getty.

[6:46:55] Voice 40: In the context of all of this, protecting, maintaining, restoring, I don't think we have

[6:47:02] Voice 40: anything specific in there about what we do about invasive species, which would include deer.

[6:47:07] Voice 40: Is it in there? Apologies. Where is it, if you don't mind?

[6:47:13] Voice 40: Quickly, is it?

[6:47:21] Voice 40: Well, apologies if it's there.

[6:47:24] Voice 40: Yeah.

[6:47:24] Voice 40: Oh,

[6:47:25] Voice 26: the nature might have the phone.

[6:47:29] Voice 26: Pardon?

[6:47:34] Voice 36: I'd like to recommend that the policies

[6:47:37] Voice 36: under the directive policies for ecosystem integrity

[6:47:41] Voice 36: be reviewed by a qualified botanist or biologist

[6:47:46] Voice 36: with respect to the issues that we've

[6:47:48] Voice 36: got about 3.3.3 and their associated ecosystems and I would all have we

[6:47:55] Voice 36: already got an amendment to include red cedar

[6:47:58] Voice 29: okay

[6:48:00] Voice 36: the biologist or botanist

[6:48:17] Voice 36: botanist

[6:48:23] Trustee Elliott: so okay so we've got a recommendation and then I think I just

[6:48:28] Trustee Elliott: privilege can we please stop the side chatter you two are going to be

[6:48:34] Trustee Elliott: separated

[6:48:34] Voice 26: pick up

[6:48:42] Trustee Elliott: your knitting okay so we've got ten minutes left we've got a

[6:48:48] Trustee Elliott: recommendation and then we've got a list of amendments we could do this in two

[6:48:53] Trustee Elliott: ways take that one recommendation separately because it is direction to

[6:48:57] Trustee Elliott: staff well how did we do that that's fine that's okay great um and then have a vote on these as a

[6:49:07] Trustee Elliott: whole or have them one by one may

[6:49:11] Voice 15: we online folks see trustee getty's um suggestion yes absolutely

[6:49:18] Voice 28: so

[6:49:21] Trustee Elliott: for item 3.3.3 request that a qualified professional biologist review the wording

[6:49:32] Trustee Elliott: and amendments and what was it

[6:49:38] Voice 26: okay to clarify

[6:49:52] Trustee Elliott: the relationship between

[6:49:53] Voice 26: okay

[6:49:58] Trustee Elliott: well you please help with the wording so that Laurie can know it's in the middle

[6:50:04] Trustee Elliott: item 3.3.3

[6:50:06] Trustee Elliott: requests that staff

[6:50:16] Voice 26: we've got

[6:50:17] Voice 26: thanks

[6:50:18] Voice 9: Claire can you help us out

[6:50:21] Trustee Elliott: I

[6:50:21] Voice 9: can I have some draft wording I can read out

[6:50:23] Voice 9: for you that I thought might be helpful and I can

[6:50:25] Voice 9: provide this to Laurie if it sounds

[6:50:27] Voice 9: useful that the committee

[6:50:29] Voice 9: of the whole recommend that staff be directed

[6:50:31] Voice 9: to seek a qualified biologist

[6:50:33] Voice 9: to review draft policy statement policy

[6:50:35] Voice 9: 3.3.3 to

[6:50:37] Voice 9: assess if the phrase and associated ecosystem is required if that's in keeping with the intention

[6:50:46] Voice 9: of the group okay

[6:50:47] Trustee Elliott: wonderful yes

[6:50:53] Voice 26: i think we'll we'll work on that we're just having

[6:50:57] Voice 26: just a

[6:50:59] Trustee Evans: quick question do we have anyone on staff that can do this rather than seeking

[6:51:02] Trustee Evans: out an external person good

[6:51:07] Trustee Elliott: ecosystem manager this

[6:51:11] Voice 9: is where the in cooperation with phrase

[6:51:13] Voice 9: comes in, I would simply lean into colleagues at the province who are qualified to ask

[6:51:17] Voice 9: if someone could take a look at this for us.

[6:51:23] Trustee Elliott: Okay. So

[6:51:28] Trustee Elliott: we'll leave it to staff. Yeah, we can sort it out.

[6:51:32] Trustee Elliott: We still have a few bits of business to get through.

[6:51:36] Trustee Elliott: So once we voted on this and we vote on the other amendments,

[6:51:41] Trustee Elliott: we're not going to discuss any new content. Is that good?

[6:51:45] Trustee Elliott: Yes. Thanks.

[6:51:47] Voice 3: sorry invasive

[6:51:48] Voice 3: species is mentioned at the very beginning under objective three in that

[6:51:55] Voice 3: that paragraph last sentence

[6:52:03] Voice 27: right the box

[6:52:08] Voice 27: okay okay

[6:52:13] Trustee Elliott: so we have a motion that do we have a seconder trustee luckham seconds excellent

[6:52:29] Trustee Elliott: We're just voting on this motion to seek a qualified biologist to review draft policy statement policy 3.3.3 to assess if the phrase, quote, and associated ecosystems, unquote, is required.

[6:52:44] Trustee Elliott: Everyone ready to vote?

[6:52:47] Trustee Elliott: Clear?

[6:52:48] Trustee Elliott: On the motion, all those in?

[6:52:51] Trustee Elliott: We did second it by Trustee Luckham.

[6:52:54] Trustee Elliott: Not clear?

[6:52:55] Trustee Elliott: Okay.

[6:52:56] Voice 4: We haven't done this question.

[6:52:58] Voice 4: We're

[6:52:59] Trustee Elliott: going to go back to all of those.

[6:53:01] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, this is just on Trustee Getty's motion.

[6:53:07] Voice 25: Trustee has questions.

[6:53:09] Trustee Elliott: And Claire, on the motion?

[6:53:11] Trustee Evans: Yep.

[6:53:12] Trustee Evans: Clarifying question.

[6:53:13] Trustee Evans: Can we, like, I don't know how we can get this in,

[6:53:15] Trustee Evans: but just making sure that the conversation that we've had

[6:53:19] Trustee Evans: regarding the, so whether I'm looking for the,

[6:53:23] Trustee Evans: how they rely on each other in order to exist,

[6:53:26] Trustee Evans: like the the camas flower and the gary oak um making like that that is in there that is not

[6:53:33] Trustee Evans: just that set aside

[6:53:34] Trustee Elliott: absolutely we have trustee scott well

[6:53:41] Voice 39: i just think it's unnecessary because

[6:53:43] Voice 39: i think those words are enough that can take that out to go and hire someone i think there's a lot

[6:53:51] Voice 39: of other places here we could use the money or their expertise or the people behind us to do

[6:53:56] Voice 39: rather than that because i think that covers it okay

[6:53:59] Trustee Elliott: on the motion any other speakers seeking

[6:54:03] Trustee Elliott: clarity okay all those in favor raise your hands one

[6:54:10] Voice 26: two three four four five five six seven

[6:54:18] Voice 26: nine

[6:54:18] Trustee Elliott: nine in favor lower your hands please those opposed one

[6:54:26] Voice 26: two eight eight

[6:54:31] Voice 26: It's a little passivist thing, so...

[6:54:34] Trustee Elliott: And that passes.

[6:54:35] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[6:54:37] Voice 26: Thank you.

[6:54:39] Voice 26: So can

[6:54:40] Trustee Elliott: we go back to the document

[6:54:41] Trustee Elliott: with all the suggested amendments, Laurie, please?

[6:54:46] Trustee Elliott: Yeah, the CEDAW ones included.

[6:54:50] Trustee Elliott: No, we haven't voted on any suggested amendments

[6:54:52] Trustee Elliott: in the document.

[6:54:53] Trustee Elliott: So just working through them one by one,

[6:55:02] Trustee Elliott: and I see you, Trustee Boland.

[6:55:06] Trustee Elliott: Three minutes to break.

[6:55:07] Trustee Elliott: 3.3.1, the suggestion was made to replace,

[6:55:11] Trustee Elliott: maintain with something like support trustee bernardo said protect we are keeping prioritized

[6:55:19] Trustee Elliott: throughout adding western red cedar in 3.3.3 and were there any other changes you don't think so

[6:55:33] Trustee Elliott: this is great

[6:55:39] Trustee Evans: may i ask that we do all of them except 3.3.3 and do that one separately okay

[6:55:48] Trustee Elliott: Okay. So let's have a vote on, we haven't decided on the word for 3.3.1, if that's going to be

[6:55:55] Trustee Elliott: changed or not. So let's go to 3.3.3 to amend by adding Western Red Cedar after the words

[6:56:04] Trustee Elliott: Coastal Douglas Fir. Is that clear? I

[6:56:10] Trustee Elliott: moved it actually. I moved that we add the words

[6:56:14] Trustee Elliott: western red cedar following coastal douglas for in policy draft policy 3.3.3 do i have a seconder

[6:56:22] Trustee Elliott: seconded by trustee allen any further discussion all those in favor that is carried

[6:56:29] Trustee Elliott: hands down any opposed one about two

[6:56:33] Voice 26: two one

[6:56:34] Trustee Elliott: two opposed that is carried back to 3.3.1

[6:56:41] Trustee Elliott: there is we're getting we're seeking direction on that okay

[6:56:48] Voice 8: no

[6:56:49] Trustee Elliott: i think staff understand what to do

[6:56:55] Trustee Elliott: with that yeah yeah so back to 3.3.1 we had discussion on the word maintain uh do we have

[6:57:02] Trustee Elliott: a motion to amend to replace it with support protect or keep it staff

[6:57:10] Voice 9: if i can add the

[6:57:12] Voice 9: The conversations during drafting was not so much as councils discussed around helping the sustaining of it in practice.

[6:57:19] Voice 9: It was more sustaining it in policy.

[6:57:21] Voice 9: So you had identify and establish, which is a one-time act.

[6:57:25] Voice 9: There was an attempt to how do you protect it into the future from chipping away at it through one-off land use bylaw changes.

[6:57:33] Voice 9: So that's what that verb was intended to accomplish.

[6:57:36] Voice 9: And maybe the word sustain might better accomplish that.

[6:57:40] Voice 9: That was the intention in terms of the drafting.

[6:57:45] Trustee Elliott: Excellent. Recognize Trustee Evans.

[6:57:48] Trustee Evans: I recommend that the word maintain be replaced with the word sustain.

[6:57:55] Trustee Elliott: Excellent. Moved and seconded. Any further discussion?

[6:57:59] Trustee Elliott: Call for the vote. All those in favor?

[6:58:02] Trustee Elliott: Oh, sustain. Apologies.

[6:58:05] Trustee Elliott: Are we ready to vote? All those in favor? Hands up.

[6:58:09] Trustee Elliott: One, two, three, four, five, six,

[6:58:18] Trustee Elliott: seven, eight.

[6:58:19] Trustee Elliott: 17 in favor hands down please all those opposed uh two to oppose that is carried thank you council

[6:58:31] Trustee Elliott: take a deep breath done great work we still have a little bit of business to get through so

[6:58:36] Trustee Elliott: please forgive me switching screens uh okay so back to our agenda follow-up action list and

[6:58:46] Trustee Elliott: updates is on oh wait am i on the wrong agenda probably oh it is page six okay let's get the

[6:58:52] Trustee Elliott: the drafts um we adopted the minutes right yeah thank

[6:58:58] Voice 26: you we didn't

[6:59:01] Voice 26: no you didn't we

[6:59:02] Trustee Elliott: didn't okay

[6:59:03] Trustee Elliott: so let's go back to adoption of the minutes of august 22nd 2024 committee of the whole special

[6:59:09] Trustee Elliott: meeting minutes can i take it by general consent that the minutes be adopted thank you follow-up

[6:59:15] Trustee Elliott: action list uh i'm assuming there's no questions on that if there are please raise your hands

[6:59:21] Trustee Elliott: no rise and report so new business um is there anyone who'd like to excuse me can you give a

[6:59:28] Trustee Elliott: page number i'm having trouble following we're back on the agenda for this meeting so it's just

[6:59:34] Trustee Elliott: the cover page of the agenda and what's the number beside it i'm on page five follow-up action list

[6:59:42] Trustee Elliott: we've moved to seven no rise and report and we're into eight new business which i've added one item

[6:59:50] Trustee Elliott: of new business.

[6:59:50] Trustee Elliott: Laura, do you think you could get that on the screen?

[6:59:53] Voice 15: Okay, that's it.

[6:59:54] Voice 15: I just had caught the flip over to eight.

[6:59:56] Voice 15: Thank you very much.

[7:00:00] Voice 39: Are we finished with section 3?

[7:00:03] Voice 39: Because I was on the list to speak

[7:00:06] Voice 39: to that.

[7:00:12] Trustee Elliott: We have run out of time,

[7:00:16] Trustee Elliott: Trustee Scott. We've concluded the debate.

[7:00:20] Voice 39: Can I make an observation? You

[7:00:23] Trustee Elliott: can make an observation.

[7:00:24] Trustee Elliott: Thank

[7:00:24] Voice 39: you. Hornby Island is in the middle of doing our

[7:00:28] Voice 39: OCP and land use bylaw review. And I think

[7:00:32] Voice 39: it is going to be incredibly problematic for us to be able to do those at the local level with

[7:00:37] Voice 39: the planners with the skills that we have to do all these things because it says the local trust

[7:00:44] Voice 39: committees shall we're going to have we're going to have to do that i think if it said we'll consider

[7:00:52] Voice 39: that gives us the to look through this and of course we want to do these things but which one

[7:00:59] Voice 39: One of them, can we do and which ones are for a next time review?

[7:01:02] Voice 39: So I think it's a little overly restrictive on the local trust committees when they're

[7:01:09] Voice 39: trying to do their bylaw reviews.

[7:01:12] Voice 39: I'll leave it at that.

[7:01:13] Trustee Elliott: Thank you, Trustee Scott.

[7:01:15] Trustee Elliott: And shall is an item that we will come back to and promise council, but we are not going

[7:01:21] Trustee Elliott: to entertain further debate on the policy statement right now, draft policy statement.

[7:01:26] Trustee Elliott: We need to move on to other business.

[7:01:27] Trustee Elliott: so with your permission we'll go on to the new business which would anyone like to chair future

[7:01:34] Trustee Elliott: committee of the whole meetings so the process before was to email executive committee saying

[7:01:42] Trustee Elliott: yes i'd like to express interest in chairing committee of the whole the intention is to spread

[7:01:47] Trustee Elliott: the responsibility allow the tradition the chair of trust council to rest and uh and perhaps you

[7:01:55] Trustee Elliott: you know, have another experience. Maybe somebody will get you to do gymnastics. So, um, yes.

[7:02:07] Voice 20: Just clarification. If nobody else joins up, I think our, our previous decision was to keep

[7:02:13] Voice 20: rotating through the list that we have, which is the members of the executive and trustee Bernardo.

[7:02:18] Voice 20: Is that correct?

[7:02:19] Voice 26: Yep. So

[7:02:21] Voice 20: just encourage people, put your name on the list. It's fun.

[7:02:27] Trustee Elliott: certainly is so if let's set a deadline when is the next executive committee or

[7:02:33] Trustee Elliott: the next meeting of committee of the whole is fairly soon october 3rd if we do not have

[7:02:41] Trustee Elliott: expressions of interest by october 3rd we will simply circulate back through the list starting

[7:02:47] Trustee Elliott: with trustee bernardo and you get to go again unless you do not want to so trustee uh vice

[7:02:57] Trustee Elliott: Vice Chair Peterson is doing October 3rd, so we'll start back through the list.

[7:03:02] Trustee Elliott: November 6th, you would chair the next one.

[7:03:06] Trustee Elliott: Okay, so if we do not receive expressions of interest by October 3rd, we will go back to the list as is.

[7:03:14] Trustee Elliott: Excellent. Thank you.

[7:03:16] Trustee Elliott: Next meeting to be scheduled electronically, Thursday, October 3rd, from 2 p.m. to 5 p.m.,

[7:03:22] Trustee Elliott: chaired by our excellent Vice Chair

[7:03:24] Trustee Elliott: Peterson and

[7:03:26] Trustee Elliott: unknown on Wednesday

[7:03:28] Trustee Elliott: November 6th

[7:03:30] Voice 26: can you adopt those three resolutions

[7:03:32] Voice 26: oh we need

[7:03:34] Trustee Elliott: to adopt our next

[7:03:35] Trustee Elliott: the list of our next scheduled meetings

[7:03:38] Trustee Elliott: so can I have a resolution to

[7:03:40] Trustee Elliott: I move that

[7:03:42] Trustee Elliott: no Chair shut up

[7:03:44] Voice 26: anybody

[7:03:45] Trustee Elliott: just

[7:03:46] Voice 26: move that the adopt those

[7:03:47] Voice 26: no not yet

[7:03:50] Voice 26: yes Trustee Getty

[7:03:54] Trustee Elliott: microphone please

[7:03:58] Voice 36: I'll propose a future committee

[7:04:00] Voice 36: of the whole meeting dates and times for consideration

[7:04:02] Voice 36: be as listed in the agenda

[7:04:04] Voice 36: so that's

[7:04:05] Voice 36: October 3rd, November 6th

[7:04:08] Voice 36: and December 12th

[7:04:10] Trustee Elliott: so moved

[7:04:12] Trustee Elliott: seconded by Trustee Peterson

[7:04:13] Trustee Elliott: any further discussion

[7:04:15] Trustee Elliott: all those in favor

[7:04:16] Trustee Elliott: thank you council

[7:04:21] Trustee Elliott: I believe that is carried

[7:04:22] Trustee Elliott: moved to adjourn by general consent

[7:04:25] Trustee Elliott: sent? Aye. Thank you. I'm out.

[7:04:30] Voice 27: Let's

[7:04:30] Trustee Elliott: have a break.

[7:15:57] Voice 31: We're

[7:15:59] Voice 26: back at it.

[7:16:14] Trustee Luckham: Toby said

[7:16:15] Voice 26: no response either.

[7:16:17] Trustee Luckham: Toby said no response either.

[7:16:21] Trustee Luckham: You know what they're thinking.

[7:16:27] Voice 26: That's a little

[7:16:41] Trustee Luckham: Don't forget your password in the middle of council.

[7:16:44] Voice 26: There you go.

[7:16:49] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[7:16:50] Voice 26: There we go.

[7:16:58] Trustee Luckham: We've got a quorum.

[7:17:01] Trustee Luckham: So thank you very much, Toby.

[7:17:04] Trustee Luckham: Excellent job getting us through that difficult topic.

[7:17:07] Trustee Luckham: So we're at Planning Services, Section 9.1, page 256 of the agenda.

[7:17:18] Trustee Luckham: The first items there are the consent agenda items.

[7:17:21] Trustee Luckham: We have a Director of Planning Services report and a Bylaw Enforcement Statistical Reports briefing.

[7:17:28] Trustee Luckham: Both of those there are for information, unless there's something that you'd like to hear from the director or with regards to any of the reports.

[7:17:39] Trustee Luckham: And out of courtesy, Stefan, do you have anything that you need to say with respect to your report?

[7:17:45] Trustee Luckham: It's all contained therein. Awesome job.

[7:17:48] Trustee Luckham: Anybody have any questions online?

[7:17:56] Trustee Luckham: Aha. Maraid Boland.

[7:17:59] Trustee Luckham: I

[7:18:00] Voice 40: don't expect this to be solved right now, but when we had a discussion after the delegations from Mudge, I asked if we had a record of complaints made which did not have a file opened or were not investigated.

[7:18:18] Voice 40: Actually, evidence of discretion being used, and I think that would be a helpful number that should be captured going forward, even if it's not possible to collect that retrospectively.

[7:18:35] Trustee Luckham: Thanks.

[7:18:35] Voice 40: All right.

[7:18:36] Trustee Luckham: Well, that's great, and I think staff heard that yesterday and repeated it again now, and you can take that into consideration going forward.

[7:18:42] Trustee Luckham: Okay, so then I'm going to take it then that the items at 9.11 and 9.12 be received for information. And we're going to continue on to the discussion and decision items in this section. The first being at 9.2.1, page 265 of the agenda, bylaw and compliance enforcement policy review updates. So this is a request for decision. And Director Sturmeck has put the podium there. So I'm assuming you're going to start us off.

[7:19:10] Trustee Luckham: Thank

[7:19:13] Voice 21: you, Mr. Chair. I sure am. So I'm going to assume that everybody's read this. It's

[7:19:19] Voice 21: quite detailed, many components to it. What you have before you is a request that Trust

[7:19:24] Voice 21: Council approves the amended bylaw compliance and enforcement policy review updates project

[7:19:30] Voice 21: charter to include an LTC bylaw compliance enforcement policy template. Some of you have

[7:19:37] Voice 21: have already seen an example of that at your respective LTCs.

[7:19:41] Voice 21: And secondly, you're being asked to endorse the draft amendments that you see before

[7:19:45] Voice 21: you, which is in the Enforcement Policy 551,

[7:19:49] Voice 21: as well as what the Regional Planning Committee's directions

[7:19:53] Voice 21: were involved to change that. Now, I apologize

[7:19:57] Voice 21: that we were not able to find time to incorporate all the changes

[7:20:01] Voice 21: that the Regional Planning Committee asked to have these documents and present them to you in

[7:20:05] Voice 21: that format that was by nature of the timing having a meeting end at four o'clock one day

[7:20:10] Voice 21: and then the agenda for this being then the very next day so we weren't able to incorporate those

[7:20:14] Voice 21: changes um and i'll go through what they asked for in a moment so i'm just telling you what the

[7:20:19] Voice 21: summary of overall is so well pardon me the rfd before you advances the bylaw compliance and

[7:20:31] Voice 21: review project as purchase council's approved project charter and work plan as per the approved

[7:20:38] Voice 21: work plan, the RFPC considered the project in May and again in September. In September,

[7:20:44] Voice 21: the RFPC reviewed the draft work attached to the RFD that you see before you. And after

[7:20:50] Voice 21: consideration, the RFPC made a few recommended changes, and that was to the project charter

[7:20:56] Voice 21: as attached to and called version two in your RFD, the first attachment. And this is to include

[7:21:05] Voice 21: include a policy template for local trust committees.

[7:21:09] Voice 21: Now, as most of you know, bylaw enforcement, the rubber hits the road at the LTC table.

[7:21:14] Voice 21: That's where bylaw enforcement is directed.

[7:21:16] Voice 21: And this is a model template meant to achieve the objectives of your project.

[7:21:22] Voice 21: And it's so that LTCs can direct more effectively than standing resolutions

[7:21:28] Voice 21: how and when you want bylaw enforcement to enforce, to investigate, and the whole bit.

[7:21:36] Voice 21: It's a significant improvement in staff's opinion to the standing resolutions, for me,

[7:21:41] Voice 21: and that the template may be discussed, amended, and adapted at your respective LTC tables.

[7:21:47] Voice 21: So just a reminder that what you see is a template, and then you can decide at your

[7:21:53] Voice 21: local LTC tables how you'd like to address the details within that.

[7:21:57] Voice 21: It's just a template.

[7:21:59] Voice 21: RPC had other recommended changes that are not reflected in the draft amendments, as

[7:22:06] Voice 21: I said, but instead it's captured in the RFD for you to consider, and those are, one, amending

[7:22:13] Voice 21: the notification period for inspection to two weeks.

[7:22:16] Voice 21: That was a recommended change, as well as permitting some discretion to the manager

[7:22:21] Voice 21: of the bylaw compliance and enforcement to open files and launch an investigation based

[7:22:26] Voice 21: on available resources.

[7:22:29] Voice 21: RFPC also requested a plain language version of the best practices manual, which fits well

[7:22:34] Voice 21: within the deliverables that trust council approved to create public facing documents

[7:22:38] Voice 21: and staff have begun this work rpc also considered the draft amendments to trust council's

[7:22:45] Voice 21: administrative fairness complaints policy and that's policy 712 you don't have a copy of that

[7:22:50] Voice 21: in your agenda package because the regional planning committee thought it was not well

[7:22:54] Voice 21: formed enough for trust council to be able to discuss further and a little bit about that is

[7:23:00] Voice 21: is that it's the Administrative Fairness Complaint Policy,

[7:23:03] Voice 21: and it was creating a complaint policy based on the above person's report

[7:23:07] Voice 21: to separate the simplicity of being able to complain about staff conduct,

[7:23:12] Voice 21: and it was a bit, I guess, too simple to advance at this stage.

[7:23:17] Voice 21: But it will come back to Trust Council,

[7:23:19] Voice 21: and it will go back to the Regional Planning Committee to inform this discussion.

[7:23:24] Voice 21: Regional Planning Committee also asked that that Administrative Fairness Complaints Policy Amendment

[7:23:29] Voice 21: amendment be vetted, I guess, or considered through the self-assessment checklist of the

[7:23:35] Voice 21: ombudsperson's complaint guide to determine if the recommended components were included.

[7:23:41] Voice 21: And that's all to say is that the ombudsperson has some amazing materials, checklists and

[7:23:47] Voice 21: things like that, that the RPC wanted to be very clear that we use those documents to

[7:23:52] Voice 21: review the documents before they come to you.

[7:23:54] Voice 21: I'm seeing some confused looks.

[7:23:56] Voice 21: I hope I'm not losing anybody.

[7:23:59] Voice 21: And let's see. Staff included bylaw compliance review as a key initiative in the draft strategic plan. You're not going to see strategic plan this now. You've deferred that item. But if you did open that up in your Trust Council agenda package, we've made sure to capture that as a key initiative, recognizing that there's more work to be done beyond just updating the policies and procedures as per the ombudsperson's report.

[7:24:24] Voice 21: so that work is recommended to continue and that's also to address the results

[7:24:30] Voice 21: from the gaps and opportunities for future work should there be result so

[7:24:36] Voice 21: next steps Trust Council may comment on the direction the RPC is taking in a

[7:24:40] Voice 21: project we're simply looking for an endorsement of the work that's being

[7:24:43] Voice 21: done and your endorsement to continue we recognize that there's a lot of work to

[7:24:48] Voice 21: be done I've had some very specific feedback from a few of you really value

[7:24:53] Voice 21: you that feedback it's been very constructive and i recommend if you have a lengthy list of

[7:24:57] Voice 21: things written down to submit it either to me personally in writing or to submit it to me via

[7:25:02] Voice 21: email if you if it's too difficult to do it um over over today in a constructive way i know the

[7:25:10] Voice 21: rpc struggled to give a recommendation as per each document whether it be the policy the best manage

[7:25:16] Voice 21: the best practices or the model template and said it kind of got muddled all together the

[7:25:24] Voice 21: The recommended resolutions from the RBC are to approve the project charter, which you have before you, and to continue with the project.

[7:25:30] Voice 21: The Trust Council and whatever revisions Trust Council approves today or recommends going forward,

[7:25:37] Voice 21: the ombudsperson staff are standing by ready to review this to make sure to re-evaluate whatever is happening meets their best practices.

[7:25:47] Voice 21: We had it in the work plan that they would review it before it came to you at this meeting,

[7:25:51] Voice 21: but in fact it made more sense that you all get a chance to edit it before it goes to them

[7:25:55] Voice 21: and it comes back. You also have it in your project charter to have a legal review but we

[7:26:02] Voice 21: have no budget associated with that. So I haven't wrestled with how to get around that. I may have

[7:26:07] Voice 21: to come back at the next meeting and ask for a bit of a budget associated with that if Trust

[7:26:12] Voice 21: Council wants us to do that. A plain language version as I said is being worked on and some

[7:26:19] Voice 21: Some of the feedback I got about that, it's kind of an aha moment.

[7:26:23] Voice 21: It's not that I don't think that personally that's in plain language.

[7:26:27] Voice 21: It's pretty plain, but it's not really written from the point of view of somebody who's going through enforcement, kind of a how-to guide what's going on.

[7:26:35] Voice 21: So that's great feedback.

[7:26:37] Voice 21: And as a reminder, the project includes the implementation phase at the end of it, which includes procedural updates for staff, communications, training.

[7:26:46] Voice 21: It just doesn't end as soon as you adopt it.

[7:26:48] Voice 21: there's more to it than that. And as well, as I remind you, I've captured it on the strategic

[7:26:52] Voice 21: plan for you. So with that, I'm not going to review all the its and bits and pieces to it,

[7:26:59] Voice 21: because I figured we have limited time. You're going to have lots of questions.

[7:27:03] Voice 21: I know I have Manager Dingman standing by to help answer questions as well,

[7:27:09] Voice 21: and happy to take any questions you have.

[7:27:12] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Thank you. Given what you said about

[7:27:16] Trustee Luckham: the recommendations and amendments, et cetera,

[7:27:20] Trustee Luckham: advice from RPC and not being

[7:27:24] Trustee Luckham: included in the package is what I'm understanding. I wonder whether or not we

[7:27:28] Trustee Luckham: might allow the chair of the RPC or, and I know that

[7:27:32] Trustee Luckham: Laura, you weren't chairing that meeting, I think, and so it could also be the chair

[7:27:37] Trustee Luckham: of the previous, whoever was chairing. I think it was Sam

[7:27:40] Trustee Luckham: actually. But do you want to speak to it?

[7:27:46] Trustee Patrick: Thank you. And I think also it might be good to divide the work on the conversation here, because there are two motions. So I'll run into the second part, because I think they're distinctly different, motion one. So it might be good to get that done.

[7:28:00] Trustee Patrick: um first i think it's just a reminder and the terms of reference uh the project charter at the

[7:28:10] Trustee Patrick: top what it says there that um you know our purpose is that the policies and procedures

[7:28:15] Trustee Patrick: to be administratively fair reasonable and transparent and with the aim to restoring

[7:28:20] Trustee Patrick: public confidence so i think when we're looking and talking today we should have that lens from

[7:28:25] Trustee Patrick: from our perspective, are we getting there?

[7:28:31] Trustee Patrick: I also, you know, I think the committee, you know,

[7:28:37] Trustee Patrick: we weren't really opposing, I think, endorsement of policy,

[7:28:41] Trustee Patrick: the first policy, the policy.

[7:28:47] Trustee Patrick: What we stopped was staff was going to send their recommendations

[7:28:52] Trustee Patrick: to the ombudsman, and we thought, well,

[7:28:54] Trustee Patrick: instead of getting another set of comments,

[7:28:56] Trustee Patrick: we've got the ombudsman report before you, which I assume every one of you reread before you

[7:29:02] Trustee Patrick: looked at this policy, that you're looking at this draft of the policy with that lens of the

[7:29:09] Trustee Patrick: current comments. We should, as a group, should be satisfied that we think the draft policy

[7:29:16] Trustee Patrick: generally meets our understanding of this ombudsman recommendations and suggestions

[7:29:22] Trustee Patrick: questions, before we send it back to them and ask them to take another look at it, because then

[7:29:27] Trustee Patrick: we're going to be confused as to what set we're looking at. So I think

[7:29:31] Trustee Patrick: we should be satisfied

[7:29:32] Trustee Patrick: first. And I'd again ask you to look at it from that lens. Are you satisfied that the issues and

[7:29:38] Trustee Patrick: comments have been addressed in there? So I think that's really all I want to add. And I don't know

[7:29:43] Trustee Patrick: if Sam wants to add more specifically when he was chairing.

[7:29:48] Trustee Luckham: Sam, do you want to chime in?

[7:29:49] Trustee Luckham: uh

[7:29:51] Voice 34: i think laura's kind of captured most of most of the the feelings of the rest of of rpc and

[7:29:58] Voice 34: certainly mine um

[7:30:00] Voice 34: I mean, I think we've had some very compelling public comment on this topic. And I think it really it this is one of the main ways in which the public interact with the trust.

[7:30:13] Voice 34: um and it's often not been a good experience of late and i i feel very strongly about

[7:30:20] Voice 34: uh that it that it behoves us to make sure that we are making sure that that experience is is uh

[7:30:28] Voice 34: is good for for for people and at least clear and is is un indisputably fair um we need to that is a

[7:30:36] Voice 34: top priority and i i really think it's an important part of how this trust council is going to uh you

[7:30:42] Voice 34: you know, be seen to be interacting and responsive to the public, because clearly there's a focus on

[7:30:48] Voice 34: this. And it's extremely important. It's had, it has real impacts for people on the ground

[7:30:53] Voice 34: in our communities, and it's currently not doing us any favors. So, yeah.

[7:31:01] Trustee Luckham: Okay. Thank you very much, Sam. So I'd like to just be clear about addressing each of these two

[7:31:07] Trustee Luckham: motions separately. And so the first one, if there's any questions or somebody would like

[7:31:12] Trustee Luckham: to make the motion perhaps the chair of rpc make the motion and we can discuss the motion

[7:31:16] Trustee Luckham: specifically um what's your pleasure council and i'll let david maude handle it

[7:31:24] Voice 25: speaker was grant

[7:31:26] Voice 25: scott thank

[7:31:30] Voice 39: you stephan um issues this is incredibly important issue on her and beyond

[7:31:37] Voice 39: probably on all the islands because they just as you say it's one of the way it's one of the

[7:31:41] Voice 39: a kind of a negative way that people get

[7:31:44] Voice 39: dealt with on the trust because somebody comes and says you're breaking

[7:31:48] Voice 39: the bylaw. So one of the things that

[7:31:52] Voice 39: I've heard is that they're not, this speaks to

[7:31:56] Voice 39: Section 7 of the proposed. It says that

[7:32:00] Voice 39: complaints aren't taken off the

[7:32:04] Voice 39: list. You know, they feel like

[7:32:09] Voice 39: They feel like they've satisfied

[7:32:11] Voice 39: what it is the complaint was about, and yet the file still remains open.

[7:32:19] Voice 39: So they think that there's something wrong with what they're doing.

[7:32:23] Voice 39: So to close the file off very quickly would be a very good thing to do.

[7:32:28] Voice 39: and um and there's section 5.1 says that it's some the bylaw enforcement people can it's legal

[7:32:39] Voice 39: for them to enter on on private land and yet it yet in uh 5.5.7 5.8 um no i'm sorry 5.1 and 5.3

[7:32:51] Voice 39: seem to be in conflict with each other one says they can enter private land and the other says

[7:32:57] Voice 39: there has to be a notice given for me

[7:33:01] Voice 27: 277.

[7:33:03] Voice 39: oh for me

[7:33:04] Voice 27: 277.

[7:33:08] Voice 39: thank you

[7:33:09] Trustee Luckham: okay do you have any remarks

[7:33:11] Trustee Luckham: with respect to that feedback stephan not

[7:33:19] Voice 21: immediately i just need to find out as you

[7:33:22] Voice 21: know that there this is um i think the inspection uh i think it's part of the policy speaking to

[7:33:28] Voice 21: to the legal right that's in the local government bylaw enforcement act that

[7:33:34] Voice 21: allows bylaw enforcement officers who've been given that right via the LTC

[7:33:38] Voice 21: bylaws to enter property.

[7:33:40] Voice 21: So I think that's what it's saying.

[7:33:41] Voice 21: So we have the right as per given to us by legislation and through the LTCs

[7:33:46] Voice 21: to enter property.

[7:33:47] Voice 21: And then the following one says we're going to do it with 24 hours notice.

[7:33:51] Voice 21: So I don't think they're meant to be in conflict with each other.

[7:33:55] Voice 21: However,

[7:33:55] Voice 21: However, you bring that up and I'll certainly be happy to go back and revise it to make sure that that's clear.

[7:34:01] Trustee Luckham: Right. So we're about to potentially approve this and we need some certainty of that.

[7:34:11] Voice 21: Right. So, as I said, I imagine there's going to be a lot of feedback.

[7:34:15] Voice 21: And so one way to do this is either to make a resolution and say amend the following things like you did with the policy statement.

[7:34:22] Voice 21: or we can have the minutes track certain issues as we go

[7:34:27] Voice 21: and then get a summary of those at the end

[7:34:28] Voice 21: and then endorse as per the recommended changes

[7:34:32] Voice 21: and so on and so forth.

[7:34:33] Voice 21: So I'd look to your lead how you'd like to do that.

[7:34:35] Voice 21: Okay.

[7:34:37] Trustee Luckham: Who else wanted to speak or make a motion?

[7:34:39] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Boland.

[7:34:44] Voice 40: I have a big problem with all of this material as it stands.

[7:34:47] Voice 40: plans the first recommendation is that we adopt the updates to the project charter

[7:34:55] Voice 40: so I read through the ombudsman's report very carefully because I hadn't done it properly before

[7:35:02] Voice 40: and I came to the conclusion that the project charter deliverables are flawed so I'll give

[7:35:11] Voice 40: you an example. In the project charter deliverables, it says revisions to bylaw compliance and

[7:35:19] Voice 40: enforcement policy 5.5.1. If you go down to others, it says a public bylaw complaints and enforcement

[7:35:27] Voice 40: document. In the Ombudsman's report, that thing, the public bylaw complaints and enforcement

[7:35:35] Voice 40: document that is the primary deliverable that they suggest that we need and you might achieve

[7:35:42] Voice 40: it by updating 5.5.1 but that an update to 5.5.1 was not what they really suggested it was almost

[7:35:51] Voice 40: like you need to rethink you've got material in 5.5.1 you've got material in an internal policy

[7:35:59] Voice 40: you've got material in the best practices guide and you've got all of the links that we're giving

[7:36:05] Voice 40: you and we're giving you a table of contents about what a document should contain if you look at one

[7:36:12] Voice 40: from I don't know Coquitlin I can't even remember they gave some great examples where

[7:36:20] Voice 40: the language was very descriptive and it was very easy to read and it was very comprehensive

[7:36:26] Voice 40: and what we've got is like tables with you know constantly 2.1.1 2.1.3 it's very and and they

[7:36:36] Voice 40: actually advised to lose the formal language to reach and you know make it more accessible

[7:36:43] Voice 40: so by just jumping immediately to updating 5.5.1 we're not making a change we're doing

[7:36:52] Voice 40: doing a very mechanistic edit on something which was flawed in its very first instance.

[7:37:03] Voice 40: So it's not a big enough change, I think.

[7:37:08] Voice 40: At the last meeting, one of the reasons that we never really discussed the bylaw complaints

[7:37:16] Voice 40: sorry, which document, the one about the handling complaints

[7:37:22] Voice 40: was because it was mistitled.

[7:37:24] Voice 40: It was titled LTC Complaints Handling.

[7:37:29] Voice 40: So we had a weird discussion about what document are we actually looking at

[7:37:34] Voice 40: and what does it mean?

[7:37:35] Voice 40: And the third point I'd make is that, you know, producing an LTC template,

[7:37:40] Voice 40: it's too fast.

[7:37:42] Voice 40: I think we should focus on making the first thing we're asked to make is a public bylaw

[7:37:49] Voice 40: complaints and enforcement document that should be our entire focus until that's done

[7:37:55] Voice 40: if you start to create these other documents then you have to align the content so your chances of

[7:38:02] Voice 40: them diverging because they're all sort of nested within each other but they all rely on that top

[7:38:08] Voice 40: top level document and its content to really, then the other documents become subsets of it.

[7:38:15] Voice 40: So trying to move all of the documents along in parallel, I think is a really flawed premise.

[7:38:21] Voice 40: So my recommendation would be that the deliverables are altered to put that public

[7:38:27] Voice 40: bylaw complaints thing at the top. And that the way of tackling it, it needs a rethink.

[7:38:34] Voice 40: think the ombudsman provided a table of contents that suggested you need this you need that you

[7:38:40] Voice 40: need the other and then where that content could and should come from some of their guides are

[7:38:46] Voice 40: excellent so I don't think what we have right now we could go to the ombudsman with and have them

[7:38:55] Voice 40: give us a great job guys I think they would probably say I don't know what they would say

[7:39:03] Voice 40: but I doubt they'd say terrific job.

[7:39:06] Voice 40: I think there's an opportunity to just step back,

[7:39:09] Voice 40: look at the content, look at the deliverables

[7:39:11] Voice 40: and really look at it properly

[7:39:13] Voice 40: and maybe come back in December again.

[7:39:16] Voice 40: But I find it, I think the approach was just very narrow

[7:39:21] Voice 40: and didn't really grasp the intent of the ombudsman.

[7:39:27] Voice 40: Thank you.

[7:39:28] Voice 40: Okay.

[7:39:31] Trustee Luckham: That's a fulsome list of concerns. And so, we will need an alternate motion if there's an intent to ask staff to go back and work on this. And so, just place that into your minds, and let's continue on the speaker's list.

[7:39:49] Voice 25: Dr. Campbell.

[7:39:50] Voice 25: Yeah,

[7:39:52] Voice 5: thanks. I think what led to requesting a bylaw review two years ago is very similar to what was just outlined both at the RPC and then for Trust Council with the members of MUDGE coming forward to speak about how they feel that we're missing the mark as far as this is concerned.

[7:40:20] Voice 5: And so I guess my question would be, having been given this feedback now, what are the changes that are actually in this document that are going to fix the issues that we're having in our communities?

[7:40:37] Voice 5: because it's great to say that we're updating things and that we're actually making some changes,

[7:40:43] Voice 5: but we're being faced two years later with an almost exact carbon copy of complaints that we were receiving before.

[7:40:52] Voice 5: So what have we done in this document that's actually going to make any sort of a change for the people that live in our communities?

[7:41:01] Trustee Luckham: Great. Thank you. And Stepan Sermak, you raised your hand there. Please go ahead.

[7:41:06] Trustee Luckham: Thank

[7:41:07] Voice 21: you, Mr. Chair. You know, I'm going to try to be brief. You know, I don't have all my notes from what the people from Mudge Island said, but they have had a couple of meetings with the Gabriel to LTC.

[7:41:21] Voice 21: I'd like to compliment the bio enforcement team for hosting public webinars with them to address their questions. They've gone out of the way to be helpful, supportive, informative, the rest.

[7:41:33] Voice 21: So that's different. The other one would be they talked about vexatiousness. What to do when somebody's making vexatious complaints. You'll see that there's draft language in there. Is it enough? I leave that to you to decide. I think after reviewing some of the things that I heard from other trustees, probably not.

[7:41:50] Voice 21: not. We talked about discretion. Is there discretion? Again, you'll see amendments and

[7:41:58] Voice 21: inclusions in your policy documents here to talk about discretion. RPC made some recommendations

[7:42:02] Voice 21: that are in your RFD recommending some discretion. So I would argue that those policies are,

[7:42:08] Voice 21: we're listening, they're being addressed. And moreover, the actual customer service aspect of

[7:42:14] Voice 21: helping, I think we have to recognize that your bylaw officers are responding within 24 hours to

[7:42:20] Voice 21: you and they're holding public meetings and they're trying to help is it perfect no but

[7:42:25] Voice 21: that's what we're here to help so trustee

[7:42:31] Voice 25: evans i

[7:42:34] Trustee Evans: will not be able to um um agree that this is ready

[7:42:39] Trustee Evans: to to to be approved in in its current state i feel it hasn't gone far enough with the changes

[7:42:45] Trustee Evans: that were identified with the ombudsperson's report uh specifically around five uh so it's

[7:42:52] Trustee Evans: the local trust committee bylaw compliance and enforcement policy on page 277 specifically

[7:42:57] Trustee Evans: section 5.1 um where it says bylaw enforcement officers are authorized under the land use bylaw

[7:43:03] Trustee Evans: to enter any lot at any reasonable time to determine if regulations are being observed

[7:43:08] Trustee Evans: that in itself says that there doesn't even have to be a complaint um so the ombudsperson's report

[7:43:16] Trustee Evans: report was quite clear that notice of inspections of private property are required and a minimum

[7:43:24] Trustee Evans: of 24 hours is recommended, except where there is immediate threat to life, environment or human

[7:43:30] Trustee Evans: health. So I'd like to see some of that language in here instead of what we've currently got.

[7:43:36] Trustee Evans: The whole purpose of doing the review and the revisions here is to change how things are being

[7:43:42] Trustee Evans: currently done because it hasn't been working uh 5.3 says bylaw enforcement offices are encouraged

[7:43:48] Trustee Evans: to request mutually agreeable times to arrange inspections um i i would i would like that a

[7:43:55] Trustee Evans: little stronger is that they shouldn't just be encouraged to request agreeable times to meet but

[7:44:01] Trustee Evans: um maybe a little stronger there um going down to uh 6.1 if a bylaw contravention is confirmed

[7:44:09] Trustee Evans: confirmed, the notice in writing has been removed. I think it's really important to have notice in

[7:44:15] Trustee Evans: writing. So I'd like to see that kept back in. And then going over to 7.5, it's also been removed

[7:44:26] Trustee Evans: that the LTC will be notified when a file is closed. I think that's important for an LTC to

[7:44:31] Trustee Evans: know because half the time we don't even know that they've been opened. So I think it's really,

[7:44:36] Trustee Evans: we have to have a little bit more transparency here which was the reason why we were doing this

[7:44:42] Trustee Evans: and changing the methodology that we have become used to using because the ombudsperson

[7:44:53] Trustee Evans: hinted that we might need to look at the legalities of the activities and the approaches

[7:45:00] Trustee Evans: that we're using. So they said on page nine of the ombudsperson's report that it's not consistent

[7:45:09] Trustee Evans: with legal and fairness principles, specifically talking about entry on private property. So I

[7:45:16] Trustee Evans: strongly, strongly recommend that this go back and be revised before we approve it.

[7:45:29] Trustee Luckham: Stefan, do you want to add something more? I

[7:45:32] Voice 21: just want to be clear that we're not asking

[7:45:33] Voice 21: you to approve the policy just endorse the draft and keep moving forward so that the draft you're

[7:45:40] Voice 21: probably going to get another draft coming to you for revision later on at another meeting

[7:45:43] Voice 21: yeah

[7:45:44] Trustee Luckham: so uh we've got two things on the go here and there that's mixed up the focus i think but

[7:45:52] Trustee Luckham: nonetheless very valid comments but we've got approving the amended bylaw compliance and

[7:45:58] Trustee Luckham: enforcement and endorsing the draft amendments so uh let's keep going who is it lee middleton next

[7:46:07] Voice 25: justy elliott oh

[7:46:08] Trustee Luckham: oh

[7:46:09] Trustee Elliott: so i hope i can clarify some of this it has been a real learning curve going

[7:46:14] Trustee Elliott: back to may 4th was a rpc meeting that i stepped into chair in which we inadvertently endorsed

[7:46:25] Trustee Elliott: endorsed, adding this deliverable, the development and review of an LTC bylaw enforcement policy,

[7:46:34] Trustee Elliott: not understanding that this is council's work to direct, and it should have been directed by

[7:46:40] Trustee Elliott: council. So council committees can only do work that council directs it to do. I was chairing

[7:46:46] Trustee Elliott: that meeting. Staff brought forward this amendment to the project charter that you see on page 269

[7:46:52] Trustee Elliott: and said, look, all the other local governments have policies such as you see on this LTC draft

[7:47:01] Trustee Elliott: enforcement policy of how they do their work. We don't have that. It would be a good idea.

[7:47:10] Trustee Elliott: And so Toby, not knowing what to do, thought this is great. Let's include it in the project charter.

[7:47:18] Trustee Elliott: So we amended the charter at that time, and then that work proceeded. And so with my experience on Mudge Island, we actually have been working through this draft LTC enforcement policy to good effect.

[7:47:36] Trustee Elliott: we're having conversations about well how many days is acceptable on this island do two neighbors

[7:47:44] Trustee Elliott: need to give a complaint so we're actually working on a draft much focused enforcement policy

[7:47:52] Trustee Elliott: with the community members who have very clear concerns and articulated them all through this

[7:48:00] Trustee Elliott: process but this is coming back to council to say can we do this work so that's all the project

[7:48:07] Trustee Elliott: charter is doing is actually would council please endorse and i'm really asking you to do this

[7:48:13] Trustee Elliott: because it's critical to mudge island right now we've kind of like the the horse has left the barn

[7:48:19] Trustee Elliott: and is down the racetrack and now we're kind of going council can you please endorse this our

[7:48:24] Trustee Elliott: community desperately needs it so that's the one piece that is the development and review of an

[7:48:29] Trustee Elliott: LTC bylaw enforcement policy. What staff proposed was a model policy that could be tailored by your

[7:48:36] Trustee Elliott: LTC. Denman LTC, I think, adopted one. Gabriela is considering one. But we have to come back to

[7:48:45] Trustee Elliott: council and say, please tell us to do this work. So that's that piece. Going back to the question

[7:48:51] Trustee Elliott: of revisions to bylaw compliance and enforcement policy 5.5.1 this is a council held policy this

[7:49:00] Trustee Elliott: directs all the work for staff because we don't have a local trust policy that says how that work

[7:49:06] Trustee Elliott: is done this is the only policy that we hold and so there was no um the priority of investigation

[7:49:16] Trustee Elliott: Investigation has been adjusted to, I think, good effect.

[7:49:19] Trustee Elliott: And the directing the LTC to have discretion, so the discretionary enforcement policies, that's been added in there so that each LTC can say, here's our list of how we want enforcement to be done.

[7:49:37] Trustee Elliott: It's different on different islands.

[7:49:39] Trustee Elliott: On Gabriela Island, we have a problem with short-term vacation rentals.

[7:49:43] Trustee Elliott: We want proactive enforcement on that.

[7:49:45] Trustee Elliott: So this gives the power for the LTC to direct and how much discretion we have.

[7:49:54] Trustee Elliott: The frivolous, repeat, or vexatious complaints that you see on 274, we don't have a policy like that.

[7:50:01] Trustee Elliott: And so what we've gotten back from bylaw staff was, I can't, I must open all these, I must investigate all these complaints.

[7:50:08] Trustee Elliott: complaints when we had a pattern of too many complaints obviously one or two sources there

[7:50:16] Trustee Elliott: was no policy that said staff could dismiss some because there was evidently a pattern of repeat

[7:50:22] Trustee Elliott: complaints so all we're saying this is a work in progress i would say we desperately need these

[7:50:30] Trustee Elliott: changes to policy 5.5.1 to your point trustee boland you cannot create a public facing document

[7:50:37] Trustee Elliott: document that is a manual that says how you're going to do this without the policy that is the

[7:50:42] Trustee Elliott: backbone that says this is what we do this is our internal coherence for the organization

[7:50:47] Trustee Elliott: giving direction to staff it is essential that that policy is clear before you can give public

[7:50:54] Trustee Elliott: facing information to say this is how our organization works how you're going to engage

[7:50:59] Trustee Elliott: with the islands trust how you will be treated and all those other pieces they must work together in

[7:51:04] Trustee Elliott: concert. So I implore you to please amend the deliverables for the project charter. That's the

[7:51:15] Trustee Elliott: first piece because that work has already begun. And in my view, it's good work and it's essential

[7:51:19] Trustee Elliott: work. The second piece, I think policy 5.5.1 does still need work. RPC has said that. And we're

[7:51:30] Trustee Elliott: We're asking that you endorse these draft amendments so that we can continue work on it.

[7:51:34] Trustee Elliott: The bylaw compliance and enforcement best practices manual, you don't see that in any shape ready to go to the public before you.

[7:51:43] Trustee Elliott: So that's my understanding of the work to date.

[7:51:47] Trustee Elliott: There's been a lot of learnings.

[7:51:48] Trustee Elliott: I guess one final point, we had Trust Council had allocated $30,000 to RPC to do some work.

[7:51:57] Trustee Elliott: We're asking for $20,000 at the very end of tomorrow's agenda

[7:52:02] Trustee Elliott: for work on tiny homes and setting up a regulatory framework.

[7:52:08] Trustee Elliott: So potentially there's $10,000 left in that budget,

[7:52:11] Trustee Elliott: and perhaps that could be applied to the legal review

[7:52:14] Trustee Elliott: or work with consultants for plain language in the manual.

[7:52:20] Trustee Elliott: So thank you.

[7:52:20] Trustee Elliott: I think the work is proceeding as it needs to,

[7:52:24] Trustee Elliott: and we really need council's endorsement.

[7:52:25] Trustee Elliott: Thank you.

[7:52:28] Voice 24: trustee middleton hi a couple points i i'm not sure why you need councils and endorsement uh

[7:52:35] Voice 24: trustee elliott for the simple reason that the ltc has the ability to generate uh policy and

[7:52:41] Voice 24: directives from bylaw enforcement and you can simply take what's done if you find it suitable

[7:52:46] Voice 24: and put it into into play um the the the change shall we say to more enlightened by law enforcement

[7:52:55] Voice 24: is not in this draft and what's not in this draft is the the key fact that the local trust committee

[7:53:04] Voice 24: enables entry onto private property through its bylaws it's nothing to do with trust council

[7:53:10] Voice 24: policy statements so you'll find that in your land use bylaws you have enforcement details

[7:53:17] Voice 24: and you will have a separate bylaw called the enabling bylaw it's took me a long time to find

[7:53:22] Voice 24: out because i basically have been working with my colleagues on saturn about how we change

[7:53:29] Voice 24: enforcement now keep in mind we don't have the bylaw enforcement notification system on saturn

[7:53:34] Voice 24: we rejected it it wasn't appropriate for our island and so what you have is you have the full

[7:53:40] Voice 24: power to direct how bylaw enforcement officers interact with the public on their private property

[7:53:46] Voice 24: hundred percent complete full power this is important because if you want to change

[7:53:53] Voice 24: how people perceive violent enforcement as something that's um you know heavy-handed

[7:54:01] Voice 24: threatening you change how the interaction happens so we we changed the notification

[7:54:07] Voice 24: the notification period from you can enter any property to 24 hours i've since felt that that

[7:54:15] Voice 24: been looking at the work of the the the ombudsperson is not sufficient and we've

[7:54:20] Voice 24: changed it by a standing resolution to two weeks we asked we asked bylaw staff

[7:54:28] Voice 24: basically about making this now part of our land use bylaw and they said that this work

[7:54:32] Voice 24: which was coming forward would basically provide the context for that change but it clearly doesn't

[7:54:38] Voice 24: as um i think uh trustee evans pointed out there's statements like we are not required to

[7:54:45] Voice 24: to provide prior notice.

[7:54:48] Voice 24: The manual under 5.1 says that entry can be affected immediately.

[7:54:54] Voice 24: There's no mention of where the real authority lies,

[7:54:57] Voice 24: at the LTC level, under those two sets of bylaws.

[7:55:00] Voice 24: So I would say that this is crucial for the work of this body,

[7:55:05] Voice 24: is that we go back to our LTCs and we look at,

[7:55:09] Voice 24: if we want a different dialogue-based enforcement regime,

[7:55:12] Voice 24: the power is in those two bylaws how it's in they mirror each other your land use bylaws

[7:55:19] Voice 24: basically how notice is given for entry onto private property and the enabling bylaw which

[7:55:25] Voice 24: basically gives permission to an agent of the trust to enter private property um i think if

[7:55:33] Voice 24: there were a period of two weeks and you know it's for your guys for your local islands to

[7:55:38] Voice 24: decide for yourself i mean but what we're thinking is if you basically have a period of two weeks

[7:55:43] Voice 24: which is required before an enforcement officer can enter um a site and there could be guidelines

[7:55:49] Voice 24: around in the event of environmental emergency that can all be worked out i'm sure but keep in

[7:55:54] Voice 24: mind we're talking land use infractions we're not typically talking emergency situations right

[7:56:00] Voice 24: um the two weeks gives a chance for dialogue to occur the enforcement officer can be in touch

[7:56:06] Voice 24: with the respondent, and basically a dialogue can ensue about what actually is happening or

[7:56:12] Voice 24: what compliance looks like. And by the end of the two weeks, the individual could potentially be

[7:56:16] Voice 24: compliant. I think it just changes the whole, it's not anti-bylaw enforcement, it's just saying for

[7:56:22] Voice 24: the purposes of a land use, environmentally focused organization, what has been perceived

[7:56:28] Voice 24: as a heavy handed enforcement strategy is not appropriate. And we have the tools to do it

[7:56:34] Voice 24: differently. Do we have to learn? Do we have to flesh out policy? Yeah, sure we do. But starting

[7:56:40] Voice 24: from here is just starting from what we've heard is already the issue. And I would say that just

[7:56:47] Voice 24: to urge my colleagues on the Gabriel LTC, you have a lot of the power you already need in order

[7:56:52] Voice 24: to address the situation. Can it be helpful to combine more policy work at the committee level?

[7:56:58] Voice 24: Well, sure, but you're not being held back, and none of us are, and I think what we can do is say, please have a look at this work, and in a meaningful, open-minded way, look at what a longer notice period would look like, and how an enforcement regime would work, and a compliance regime with a longer notice period.

[7:57:18] Voice 24: And that is not in here, and it's not even admitted that it could be a fact in here, and that's not good, and not something we want to see go forward.

[7:57:27] Voice 24: Thank you.

[7:57:28] Trustee Luckham: so um stephan before we go to the next speaker i'm not sure if you were anticipating this kind of

[7:57:35] Trustee Luckham: information coming forward um it seems to be that there's a lot here to consider what would

[7:57:42] Trustee Luckham: you recommend with respect to these bylaws in front of us today or these recommendations in

[7:57:47] Trustee Luckham: front of us today well

[7:57:49] Voice 21: thank you mr chair i mean we have a trust council approved project

[7:57:52] Voice 21: if you'd

[7:57:52] Voice 21: like to move the project charter happy to amend it and and do as directed

[7:57:57] Voice 21: Trustee Middleton is correct about, you know, they're directing enforcement at the LTC level.

[7:58:03] Voice 21: I thought I opened up with that statement, trying to say the same thing, not quite as eloquently as perhaps Trustee Middleton.

[7:58:11] Voice 21: I'm happy to follow your direction.

[7:58:12] Voice 21: I think there's a place for good policy work, right down to the model template and the best management practice,

[7:58:20] Voice 21: as well as the extra work that Trustee Middleton is talking about at the LTC level.

[7:58:24] Voice 21: I think those are two different things, a Trust Council project versus an LTC project.

[7:58:29] Voice 21: I don't think a Trust Council meddles in LTC business.

[7:58:33] Voice 21: And so I think what Trustee Middleton is talking is a little bit of a segue.

[7:58:37] Voice 21: However, if you're looking for some general guidance, next steps, perhaps there's an implementation phase where we put together a package of some sort to inform the LTCs a little bit better to guide them in that level or something along those lines.

[7:58:52] Voice 21: Happy to go down that way.

[7:58:55] Trustee Luckham: okay so obviously we need to provide you direction with amendments all right

[7:58:59] Trustee Luckham: back to the speakers

[7:59:00] Voice 25: trustee harris thank

[7:59:04] Voice 18: you the way this is written now and by some of the things that people have um

[7:59:10] Voice 18: clearly mentioned already um i can't in good conscience um endorse this um i do have a question

[7:59:16] Voice 18: for staff um regarding the complaint driven process is that something that can be controlled

[7:59:24] Voice 18: rolled by the LTC or is that a trust council um would that be a trust council matter to them if

[7:59:32] Voice 18: that if it were to you know to suggest changes to the complaint driven process where would that be

[7:59:36] Voice 18: trust council or LTC thank you thank

[7:59:43] Voice 21: you that's a good question I'm actually gonna uh call a friend

[7:59:47] Voice 21: and see if uh manager Dingman is online and can help answer that um I think I'll be spitballing

[7:59:54] Voice 21: if I answer that.

[7:59:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So, Chair, the current policy.

[8:00:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: that are set down by trust counsel dictate uh how we handle the initial complaint uh what

[8:00:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: complaints we can actually process it must be in writing it must be a per from a person so it can't

[8:00:12] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: be anonymous um and it's very basic uh as far as the receiving of the complaint it's actually not

[8:00:20] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: well detailed so what we have set up is a process where we have a report of concern on the website

[8:00:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: site or an email by law enforcement email that can be used those complaints come to me i process

[8:00:35] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the email by trying to identify is this a contravention of a local trust committee land

[8:00:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: use bylaw soil bylaw is it an ocp contravention because there's work without a development permit

[8:00:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: and if there is then a file is opened and we go through the notification process

[8:00:55] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: process, to the property owner, tell the complainant that there's a file open, and the

[8:01:02] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: notices to the LTC. So right now you have, it's not set out to great detail within policy 551.

[8:01:13] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: It's just you, with the policies that you have set down is, we'll only open files if you've

[8:01:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: received a written complaint from a person, or files can be opened proactively if the

[8:01:24] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the bi-officer observes work in a DPA without a permit, work near a water body if there's

[8:01:31] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: health and safety issues.

[8:01:34] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Now, once the file is opened, the LTC policies, what is being, with the work that I've started

[8:01:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: with the LTC compliance and enforcement policies, is once the file is open and we begin to

[8:01:49] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: investigate, what happens subsequently is going to be set down by each LTC.

[8:01:56] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: they're going to have control as, okay, are we actually going to do enforcement

[8:02:00] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: once there's been a determination made of a contravention?

[8:02:03] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Are we going to have, are we going to proceed based on two complaints or not?

[8:02:10] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Provisions such as this.

[8:02:11] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: Trust Council could put in their policy, say, we're not going to open files,

[8:02:15] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: say, unless we receive two written complaints.

[8:02:19] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I believe they could do the same thing.

[8:02:21] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: I think it's better to leave it at the LTC level to say, okay,

[8:02:26] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: okay, we have a contravention.

[8:02:28] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: How are we going to enforce our bylaw in these specific circumstances?

[8:02:32] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And we should only proceed based on these criteria.

[8:02:37] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: And to provide some background on the LTC policy template,

[8:02:43] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: each LTC can change the language, the sections within that policy document.

[8:02:50] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: So if there's sections that they don't believe is right for their community,

[8:02:53] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: they can be removed.

[8:02:54] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: moved okay

[8:02:57] Voice 18: so that sort of answers my question um maybe i'll follow it up with a more direct one

[8:03:01] Voice 18: um if if an ltc wanted to charge a complaint if someone's complaining um with a fee to complain

[8:03:12] Voice 18: and if the complaint turned out to be bogus um they would forfeit the bond that they put up

[8:03:19] Voice 18: making that that complaint would that be something that we've done at the ltc or is that something

[8:03:23] Voice 18: that trust council would have to endorse i

[8:03:25] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: don't believe that is something that is authorized by

[8:03:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the community charter or the local government act at all so

[8:03:32] Voice 18: that would be legislative change

[8:03:33] Voice 18: at the provincial level yes

[8:03:36] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: which i think would be highly unlikely there is no repercussions for

[8:03:40] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: telling law enforcement of any kind that you believe that some wrong type of unlawful activity

[8:03:46] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: has taken place punishing the complainant well

[8:03:51] Voice 18: we've had those kind of issues of you know people

[8:03:52] Voice 18: this is a vexatious complaint we had the you know delegation for mudge and and there's clearly

[8:03:58] Voice 18: people out there that um so maybe that's something that could be looked into in the future clearly

[8:04:03] Voice 18: not by yourself but thank you for answering the question so

[8:04:07] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: chair within these both the trust

[8:04:09] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: council policies you can adopt vexatious complaint policies and at the ltc level they can also adopt

[8:04:16] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: stopped vexatious frivolous repeat complaint policies to try and prevent or stop any of

[8:04:22] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: the abuse of the system that some are concerned about because right now you don't have any

[8:04:27] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: anything that deals with vexatious complaints at all and they that's why they're included in

[8:04:33] Manager of Bylaw Compliance and Enforcement: these policies right

[8:04:36] Trustee Luckham: thank you uh warren and back to the speakers list

[8:04:39] Voice 25: justin bernardo thank you

[8:04:47] Voice 22: About 20 minutes after I got elected, I got a phone call from some people up North Thornby Island who had – they were up in arms because Warren and his gang had issued a whole bunch of – what's that?

[8:05:05] Voice 22: No disrespect.

[8:05:06] Voice 22: I was trying to be – I was trying to take a light tone.

[8:05:10] Voice 22: And what didn't mean to be disrespectful, I'll change my term, and I'll say Warren and his team received some complaints.

[8:05:19] Voice 22: lanes. They went up there. There was a lot to deal with, and we cleaned it up at the LTC level,

[8:05:25] Voice 22: okay? And as a result of that, you know, of having to deal with that issue, I had occasion to look

[8:05:34] Voice 22: at our policy. I was appalled. I sent a very long email to Russ, and I said, look, I've got some

[8:05:41] Voice 22: experience with this stuff. A big chunk of my career was in regulatory prosecutions. I know

[8:05:47] Voice 22: know how it works. I know how it's supposed to work. This is not what we're doing. And if somebody

[8:05:51] Voice 22: wants to dig into the bowels of our records, you're going to find in that email, I said a lot

[8:05:56] Voice 22: of things that subsequently the ombudsperson has told us. I have a really big problem here with

[8:06:06] Voice 22: the whole process about how we're dealing with this. And I'll get to the punchline first, which

[8:06:11] Voice 22: is I think I disagree with the project charter. I don't think we should be doing this work. I think

[8:06:16] Voice 22: we should pony up the money, hire an expert to design the right system, and get the staff off

[8:06:24] Voice 22: this. And I say that, and first of all, I want to acknowledge that the effort that staff has put

[8:06:29] Voice 22: into this is real work, and it was a good faith effort. But what's missing from this is the

[8:06:35] Voice 22: necessary expertise to understand how this type of work operates. I could go on at length. I won't.

[8:06:43] Voice 22: But there are a couple of examples. For example, what's carried over from the past policy is the idea that the director of planning, no disrespect intended here, Stephen, is supposed to be managing this business.

[8:06:54] Voice 22: I would disagree with that. I don't think the planning staff or any other operational staff should be having that level of influence over enforcement.

[8:07:03] Voice 22: Enforcement really should operate as an independent arm of the organization, and enforcement should report either directly to the CAO or somebody like an in-house counsel, if we had one, that reported otherwise directly to trust counsel.

[8:07:20] Voice 22: There's a lot of other things.

[8:07:22] Voice 22: We spend a lot of time talking today about vexatious complaints.

[8:07:25] Voice 22: complaints. I have never seen such a thing that we're going to deal with vexatious complaints by

[8:07:30] Voice 22: creating categories of how they're going to be treated. Look, I'll be honest, this strikes me

[8:07:36] Voice 22: as weird and unnecessary. It's a subset of exercising proper discretion, of exercising

[8:07:39] Voice 22: good judgment. What we need is a process where our bylaw officers are given proper direction

[8:07:49] Voice 22: and guidance about in a general way about how to exercise discretion and if that doesn't work out

[8:07:56] Voice 22: okay eventually it might get get it make its way to the local trust committee but the idea that

[8:08:02] Voice 22: you start specifying this is the case vexatious and this isn't without actually having the facts

[8:08:08] Voice 22: in front of you it's some sort of general rule i'm telling you it won't work and the idea that

[8:08:12] Voice 22: you have two complaints before you sort of move forward look if something's wrong and it's really

[8:08:17] Voice 22: really bad. And that's the evidence that you're getting. One should do it. Again, it's a matter

[8:08:24] Voice 22: of, you know, you can't legislate common sense. And in this context, common sense requires a

[8:08:28] Voice 22: certain amount of context and a certain amount of education, policy direction, but not that specific.

[8:08:37] Voice 22: And what we're trying to do here is trying to do something on the cheap. I mean, another thing

[8:08:42] Voice 22: that's carried forward, it's this weird provision we have that's carried forward from the other

[8:08:45] Voice 22: policy that somehow we're going to follow mediation principles in resolving cases what

[8:08:50] Voice 22: the hell does that mean there's no such thing as mediation when one party holds the whip that's us

[8:08:56] Voice 22: you have settlement you have plea bargaining you don't have mediation somebody's broken the law

[8:09:03] Voice 22: you know what they either comply or they go through the process so that mediation i believe

[8:09:14] Voice 22: is an attempt to encourage discussions, encourage discretion,

[8:09:19] Voice 22: but also encourage discussions about trying to work out compliance solutions

[8:09:23] Voice 22: because the fundamental thing about regulatory prosecutions

[8:09:28] Voice 22: and regulatory enforcement work is it's not intended and cannot be.

[8:09:33] Voice 22: As a matter of constitutional law, it can't be punitive.

[8:09:36] Voice 22: It's purely with a view to encouraging compliance in a specific case

[8:09:41] Voice 22: and also by creating a certain amount of general insurance.

[8:09:44] Voice 22: Our goal is compliance. If we can get to compliance without beating somebody over the head, then that's how we do it.

[8:09:51] Voice 22: And what we don't have in our system is that understanding. And it's not Warren's fault. It's not anybody's fault. It's just how this thing is organically developed.

[8:09:59] Voice 22: But we haven't matured that part of it. And that's why I'm going to counsel that let's think long and hard about this project charter. Let's

[8:10:07] Voice 22: let's spend the money. Let's hire

[8:10:10] Voice 22: somebody who knows a lot about this, who has had experience

[8:10:15] Voice 22: either running or having developed in some of the local government a sophisticated and competent regulatory enforcement process.

[8:10:26] Voice 22: They're out there.

[8:10:27] Voice 22: We don't have to reinvent the wheel.

[8:10:28] Voice 22: And everything I've heard is, again, you know, it's going to jump at me for being disrespectful.

[8:10:35] Voice 22: I'm hearing a lot of plucky amateurs who are trying to solve a problem, which is real problems, but with respect.

[8:10:44] Voice 22: You don't know what you're talking.

[8:10:45] Voice 22: let's spend the money let's hire somebody i'm sorry but that's that's what that's where i come

[8:11:01] Voice 22: from from my experience so

[8:11:03] Trustee Luckham: let's not yell at each other that's not helpful either and let's try not

[8:11:09] Trustee Luckham: to label individuals let's try and stick to the facts you've been you've been providing us some

[8:11:15] Trustee Luckham: useful information trustee bernardo well

[8:11:17] Voice 22: i want to be clear i want to look i want to be clear about

[8:11:19] Voice 22: something i'm getting a little tired of constantly being jumped at for being disrespectful when i'm

[8:11:23] Voice 22: I'm actually trying my best here, and I did not intend to be disrespectful to the staff,

[8:11:28] Voice 22: but I think we have to be realistic about what's working and what isn't.

[8:11:31] Voice 22: So I don't – I try to be careful in prefacing my remarks that I recognize this is a good faith effort

[8:11:37] Voice 22: done by good people who are trying their best.

[8:11:40] Voice 22: But, you know, this is a very specialized form of law enforcement,

[8:11:46] Voice 22: and, you know, it behooves us to be incredibly careful about this.

[8:11:51] Voice 22: All right. I've said enough.

[8:11:52] Voice 22: No.

[8:11:52] Trustee Luckham: Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Certainly welcome a motion from the floor to take any actions

[8:11:59] Trustee Luckham: associated with amendments or bringing in consultation. Let's continue with the speaker's

[8:12:08] Trustee Luckham: list and let's get to some place where we're making some advancements on this.

[8:12:14] Voice 34: Trustee Borthwick. Thank you. Yeah. And I wanted to speak to some bits that are a little ways

[8:12:21] Voice 34: is behind us now and i will keep myself brief i haven't got a motion i i certainly support us

[8:12:27] Voice 34: moving forward with this i can sense the the the mood in the room um for what it's worth i think

[8:12:35] Voice 34: that there's a lot of what trustee bernardo bernardo was just saying that that does have

[8:12:40] Voice 34: merit and i i understand the concerns around the top of the discussion as well but i i think there's

[8:12:44] Voice 34: a lot in there in terms of the systemic issue um that that plagues this and i i i really appreciate

[8:12:53] Voice 34: uh the work that that uh uh manager dingman has done um uh denman has a as of you know earlier

[8:13:02] Voice 34: this year denman has a bylaw enforcement policy in our standing resolutions um and and as trustee

[8:13:07] Voice 34: middleton was saying absolutely the the ltcs have the power to to dictate a lot of how bylaw

[8:13:14] Voice 34: enforcement is carried out on their islands and i i would encourage all of the ltcs even if you

[8:13:19] Voice 34: don't think that you have uh you don't you're not seeing issues with bylaw enforcement uh in your

[8:13:25] Voice 34: day-to-day which may be true for some islands um you know it's worth it to have a look at those

[8:13:30] Voice 34: through those things and make sure that they reflect how your community wants to to operate

[8:13:35] Voice 34: and own their bylaws. We largely rescinded the ban process earlier in the term, and we now have

[8:13:46] Voice 34: a bylaw enforcement policy, which is a great deal more proactive. The work that I see happening from

[8:13:53] Voice 34: the RPC level is about trying to bring a greater level of awareness and care to this process

[8:14:00] Voice 34: process at a trust-wide level. It does behoove us to work within, you know, to have our work

[8:14:09] Voice 34: take care of business at the LTC level, but also part of what we learn on each island,

[8:14:14] Voice 34: we can transplant to one another. And yeah, I mean, I can certainly see, I would absolutely

[8:14:21] Voice 34: agree with Trustee Bernardo's point that I think the work of doing that review might be challenging

[8:14:29] Voice 34: to do from within the body um and and and this is not in any way to disparage the work that's

[8:14:35] Voice 34: been done i think there's really valuable stuff and clearly there's issues with what we've got

[8:14:39] Voice 34: so far i do want to see this work continue um and and yeah to those islands who do have

[8:14:46] Voice 34: crucial problems or critical issues uh you know i'm not saying that the work that denman has done

[8:14:52] Voice 34: at this point is by any way going to fix all the problems but you do have the power to go in and

[8:14:57] Voice 34: make some change on on on the current level for me like looking at through the work of ltcs in

[8:15:03] Voice 34: general i want to move from standing having standing resolutions prop up the work it's it's

[8:15:09] Voice 34: about getting that into bylaw and it's about trying to make that that awareness and have that

[8:15:14] Voice 34: consistency across the the island's trust area so that we're dealing with these you know the moments

[8:15:19] Voice 34: when our planning work becomes uncomfortable in a way that's as equitable and and fair for everyone

[8:15:25] Voice 34: one involved.

[8:15:27] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, looking for some specific direction that would be helpful. Let's get these

[8:15:32] Trustee Luckham: ideas on the table. I think we've heard lots of comments and remarks on the shortfalls. Let's get

[8:15:38] Trustee Luckham: some direction.

[8:15:39] Voice 25: Trustee Patrick. I

[8:15:49] Trustee Patrick: think this is definitely a work in progress. I think the Regional

[8:15:52] Trustee Patrick: Planning Committee only received it just the week before September 4th for the first time. And

[8:15:58] Trustee Patrick: And this has got a lot more cooking to do.

[8:16:02] Trustee Patrick: So feedback is critically important.

[8:16:05] Trustee Patrick: This is vitally important work.

[8:16:08] Trustee Patrick: For most people living in the trust area, 35,000 of them, plus the visitors who have homes here,

[8:16:18] Trustee Patrick: their only interaction with the Islands Trust is when they receive a notice of a problem.

[8:16:27] Trustee Patrick: and i think it is a source of a lot of the the mistrust that has been directed our way

[8:16:37] Trustee Patrick: right from the beginning i think there's there's we're complicated we're hearing this belongs to

[8:16:42] Trustee Patrick: the trust this is a policy thing you know my brain goes to we need pictures where to go flow charts

[8:16:48] Trustee Patrick: starts, the Ombudsman made it very clear that the policy does two things. It provides direction to

[8:16:58] Trustee Patrick: staff and information for public. And I can tell you at the Regional Planning Committee, we did

[8:17:04] Trustee Patrick: have a split. Some trustees were comfortable saying, nope, the policy can be wonky and be

[8:17:09] Trustee Patrick: policy because that's policy and policy is dry. And some of us said, no, it doesn't have to be.

[8:17:15] Trustee Patrick: So I think that's the kind of feedback that would be useful.

[8:17:19] Trustee Patrick: I hear what's being, this is vitally important,

[8:17:23] Trustee Patrick: but we also have a time period here

[8:17:25] Trustee Patrick: where there will be a permanent CAO soon.

[8:17:30] Trustee Patrick: And I think this is a big item.

[8:17:34] Trustee Patrick: So I would say that perhaps before we jump in and say,

[8:17:38] Trustee Patrick: go this way, go this way, go this way,

[8:17:41] Trustee Patrick: that we return it to the Regional Planning Committee

[8:17:43] Trustee Patrick: committee and defer for the permanent CAO to have the opportunity to weigh in as well on advising

[8:17:52] Trustee Patrick: direction. Because I think this is not something that's going to be done quickly because we want

[8:17:58] Trustee Patrick: it done well. And that would be my advice is just let's return it and hold it. And if you want a

[8:18:07] Trustee Patrick: with a motion, I'll have to work on it.

[8:18:11] Trustee Patrick: Okay.

[8:18:11] Trustee Luckham: Work on it.

[8:18:13] Trustee Luckham: Anybody else? Motion? More

[8:18:15] Trustee Luckham: remarks? Oh,

[8:18:16] Voice 25: sorry. We have a speaker

[8:18:17] Voice 25: but we also have some people indicating they want to do

[8:18:19] Voice 25: a motion.

[8:18:22] Trustee Luckham: I'd like to move to a motion.

[8:18:23] Trustee Luckham: So Trustee Bernardo was first.

[8:18:28] Voice 22: Yep.

[8:18:31] Voice 22: Alright. This doesn't have to be complicated.

[8:18:33] Voice 22: I move that staff be

[8:18:35] Voice 22: requested to engage a qualified expert

[8:18:36] Voice 22: legal consultant to develop an enforcement

[8:18:38] Voice 22: policy and design a management

[8:18:40] Voice 22: for the trust bylaw enforcement capability.

[8:18:46] Trustee Luckham: Moved.

[8:18:46] Trustee Luckham: Do I have a seconder?

[8:18:49] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, it's good for now.

[8:18:50] Trustee Luckham: Oh, thank you.

[8:18:52] Trustee Luckham: Let's get it up on the screen.

[8:18:54] Trustee Luckham: Thank you for our

[8:18:54] Trustee Luckham: members at home.

[8:18:57] Trustee Luckham: And maybe there's some other crafting going on here,

[8:19:01] Trustee Luckham: but it's just pause.

[8:19:05] Trustee Luckham: I'm sorry, what?

[8:19:07] Voice 26: I'm not sure if Trustee Campbell is seconding,

[8:19:09] Voice 26: but I know he's also asking for a motion.

[8:19:12] Trustee Luckham: Okay, Trustee Campbell,

[8:19:14] Trustee Luckham: are you looking for some clarity on the motion no trying to second it yeah well let's wait till we

[8:19:19] Trustee Luckham: see what it says although it seemed pretty clear to me are we happy to proceed based upon what we

[8:19:26] Trustee Luckham: heard from trustee bernardo and online did you hear the motion i'm not seeing any problems in

[8:19:35] Voice 22: fairness it should be up on the screen so yeah okay

[8:19:38] Trustee Luckham: so then let's pause having some issues with

[8:19:40] Trustee Luckham: this

[8:19:40] Voice 19: campus. Yes.

[8:19:47] Voice 10: Did I hear correctly

[8:19:48] Voice 10: that this is a request to engage with legal counsel on

[8:19:52] Voice 10: this piece of work? Trustee Bernardo?

[8:19:59] Voice 10: Okay, so

[8:20:00] Voice 10: that doesn't sound

[8:20:01] Voice 10: inexpensive to me. No.

[8:20:03] Voice 10: So we should be talking about

[8:20:05] Voice 10: how that will be funded?

[8:20:12] Voice 22: I don't know if it's going to be

[8:20:13] Voice 22: like really expensive, but it won't be cheap. I agree. And I agree with

[8:20:17] Voice 22: So Julia's point that we need to, we'll have to find, we'll have to budget the funds for it.

[8:20:25] Trustee Luckham: Well, let's see if council is interested in this.

[8:20:28] Trustee Luckham: And clearly it can come through executive committee and determine some further action associated with funding.

[8:20:36] Voice 10: Well, you know, council has an approved budget.

[8:20:40] Voice 10: I'll give you a preview of what's coming tomorrow.

[8:20:43] Voice 10: We are overspent on our legal budget.

[8:20:44] Voice 10: if council wishes to engage in this work you should be at least setting a cap i would suggest

[8:20:52] Voice 10: okay talking about where um if you're willing to overspend on your approved budget further

[8:20:57] Voice 10: um in terms of our legal budget that should be coming from this table i

[8:21:07] Trustee Luckham: trust you've been

[8:21:07] Trustee Luckham: your folders there and okay that's completely fair um a little hard to second guess what that

[8:21:14] Trustee Luckham: that cost might be.

[8:21:16] Trustee Luckham: So are we gonna get that up on the screen or no?

[8:21:19] Trustee Luckham: There we go, perfect.

[8:21:21] Trustee Luckham: And for our friends at home?

[8:21:52] Okay,

[8:22:14] Trustee Luckham: is that obvious to the viewers remotely?

[8:22:20] Trustee Luckham: Okay, thank you.

[8:22:30] Voice 26: All

[8:22:32] Trustee Luckham: right. There we go. So is everybody clear on the motion? I'm seeing thumbs up from on the

[8:22:39] Trustee Luckham: screen, rooms in the hand. So moved by Trustee Bernardo. I think seconded by, was it Sam

[8:22:47] Trustee Luckham: Borthwick? Campbell. Campbell. Thank you, Aaron. And do you wish to speak to the motion further,

[8:22:55] Trustee Luckham: of the drill well

[8:22:57] Voice 22: i'll just get in trouble but uh i i think uh yeah i do want to speak to it briefly

[8:23:02] Voice 22: um i want to be clear about something i you know sometimes i'm hasty with my words but i didn't

[8:23:10] Voice 22: mean any disrespect to any of our staff here

[8:23:12] Voice 29: what

[8:23:13] Voice 22: i'm trying to point out is this is an extraordinarily

[8:23:17] Voice 22: difficult and sensitive type of work the reason we're getting such frankly uh really excited

[8:23:24] Voice 22: excited reactions from the community consistently is because we're actually not doing it right.

[8:23:30] Voice 22: And there are there's nothing new here.

[8:23:35] Voice 22: We don't have to reinvent the wheel. This this there's local government after local government does this work some better than others.

[8:23:44] Voice 22: And that's why I think we should get some professional assistance.

[8:23:47] Voice 22: insistence and um because this does work this if anything that we do requires us to be as

[8:23:56] Voice 22: professional as possible it's this there's absolutely nothing worse we can do than take

[8:24:02] Voice 22: a run at somebody for a bylaw infraction when the circumstances are make that unfair or unreasonable

[8:24:10] Voice 22: we're here to try to get compliance anything more than that that visits trouble discomfort and pain

[8:24:16] Voice 22: on people is illegitimate. We ought not to do it. That's why I'm saying let's design this the best

[8:24:22] Voice 22: way we can. Bring in the appropriate professional expertise to design the thing, and then we're

[8:24:28] Voice 22: golden. Thank you. Thank you, Joe.

[8:24:31] Voice 26: And back

[8:24:32] Voice 25: to you. Trustee Fast.

[8:24:38] Voice 15: Thank you. I just want to offer

[8:24:41] Voice 15: for two points one is that um uh it's probably closer to 30 000 people who and uh experience or

[8:24:50] Voice 15: uh interact with bylaw uh from the islands trust because bowen island municipality does our own

[8:24:56] Voice 15: so that's just uh five four thousand two hundred something like that on bowen and uh i'm hoping

[8:25:04] Voice 15: Hoping that whatever, maybe there's some sharing that can go on of the expertise with Bowen staff.

[8:25:12] Voice 15: And if there's some good things about the Bowen enforcement bylaw, then I'm sure you're welcome to them.

[8:25:20] Voice 15: Anyway, I just hope that there can be some collaboration there.

[8:25:23] Voice 15: Thank you.

[8:25:24] Trustee Luckham: CAO Mobbs wishes to advise us.

[8:25:26] Trustee Luckham: I

[8:25:28] Voice 10: foresee potentially some issues with this moving forward with this resolution in so much as that there would be options within this type of policy and any legal counsel would need to understand and would need to know what counsel wants to build into that policy.

[8:25:48] Voice 10: Yes, there might be pieces that are legal or illegal, and a lawyer would know what to include there. But there are options that are available that trust counsel would be the decision makers on. And this resolution doesn't give any direction to a legal counsel on the options. Is it one complaint? Is it two complaints? Both are legal. Both are options. A lawyer is not going to know what to include. So I'm challenged with how that would be addressed.

[8:26:10] Trustee Luckham: I think this is a big conversation that has to happen. It could happen in the context of this.

[8:26:19] Trustee Luckham: Stefan, do you want to add in? I see Joe Bonato wanted to make a remark, but maybe we need to be

[8:26:26] Trustee Luckham: hearing the other points of view around the table, whether or not this is of interest to

[8:26:29] Trustee Luckham: council or not.

[8:26:31] Voice 21: Thank you. Pardon me. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm not reading that the necessary

[8:26:35] Voice 21: qualified legal consultant has to be a lawyer. It has to be somebody who's an expert in bylaw

[8:26:39] Voice 21: enforcement. Maybe they're two different things. Maybe I can stand to be corrected. A lawyer knows

[8:26:45] Voice 21: is law and a lot of this is implementing policy and engaging with the community and i've heard

[8:26:50] Voice 21: from our legal team before we don't do policy so

[8:26:53] Trustee Luckham: yeah i'm i guess i'm not reading the word

[8:26:57] Trustee Luckham: lawyer in there but maybe that's my mistake um our speakers list or we went into customer artists

[8:27:04] Trustee Luckham: sure do

[8:27:05] Voice 22: you have to have some clarity there uh first of all um the ceo is correct to observe

[8:27:11] Voice 22: that anybody who undertakes this type of assignment to design an enforcement policy

[8:27:19] Voice 22: in a management structure is going to have to make some choices. I don't view this as just a

[8:27:27] Voice 22: one-off, like we hire somebody and just send them on their way. Just as we've had a project charter

[8:27:33] Voice 22: for all the things we do here, I'm anticipating that with this resolution, we get the process

[8:27:38] Voice 22: is underway of engaging the appropriate person. And those options come up in that process and we

[8:27:45] Voice 22: develop it. It's a question of just managing the outside expertise. I don't think, I mean,

[8:27:51] Voice 22: I don't think Trust Council has to micromanage that process. Secondly, to address

[8:27:58] Voice 22: Stefan's point, it isn't a matter of enforcing policy. It's enforcing the law.

[8:28:09] Voice 22: that's what the bylaws are it's legislation the most important thing here is that we do that part

[8:28:15] Voice 22: of it properly because enforcement is about distributing pain to people that's what it is

[8:28:22] Voice 22: that's how you get compliance that's how you punish people on the criminal side

[8:28:27] Voice 22: there's the law is very i mean it can only operate within the legal framework and we know this because

[8:28:33] Voice 22: because how many cases have we had that end up in the courts when they go

[8:28:37] Voice 22: sideways, whether it's our fault or somebody else's, you know, aggression.

[8:28:43] Voice 22: You do need a lawyer to design this. Thank you.

[8:28:49] Voice 22: Trustee Harris.

[8:28:51] Voice 18: Thank you. So clearly there's some, some major problems.

[8:28:59] Voice 18: Going back to what, you know, I've heard somebody say that, well, you know,

[8:29:02] Voice 18: you couldn't imagine charging the person complaining to money or whatever,

[8:29:05] Voice 18: but we have to remember there's people that have complaints put against them

[8:29:10] Voice 18: that are, that are false. And even if it's a small one,

[8:29:13] Voice 18: it's still enforcement goes out to see them.

[8:29:17] Voice 18: They could lose a day or two of work and then go through undue stress.

[8:29:22] Voice 18: And then nothing is ever done for them. Like they're just,

[8:29:25] Voice 18: we just kind of, Oh, well, whatever we got to remember,

[8:29:28] Voice 18: there's a human factor here and it needs bylaw needs to be done. Right.

[8:29:31] Voice 18: right and this this actually touches on everything we do we have to remember there's a human factor

[8:29:37] Voice 18: there's people that are affected negatively and by many of our policies in many of the ways

[8:29:41] Voice 18: that the island's trust is run um so again i'm not i can't endorse the the um the uh whatever

[8:29:51] Voice 18: the heck it's called um but this motion you know maybe this is the way we have to go thank you

[8:29:56] Voice 18: okay

[8:29:57] Trustee Luckham: and let's

[8:29:59] Trustee Luckham: Thank you very much.

[8:30:00] Trustee Luckham: Try and speak to the motion here. This is an action to take something. We know, we've talked about it. We understand there are some issues that appear to be unresolvable in the present context. Let's talk to the motion, whether you're in support of it or not.

[8:30:16] Voice 25: Trustee Getty.

[8:30:19] Voice 36: So what we've got on the agenda are some documents

[8:30:21] Voice 36: with a whole bunch of amendments and red lines,

[8:30:24] Voice 36: and there's been more that myself and Trustee Evans

[8:30:29] Voice 36: have been given to the director.

[8:30:31] Voice 36: Mine are mostly typos and minor, but a little bit of content.

[8:30:36] Voice 36: And my understanding is that this ultimately would go back

[8:30:40] Voice 36: to the ombudsperson's office,

[8:30:42] Voice 36: and they've got this best practice manual,

[8:30:45] Voice 36: and they've got considerable expertise.

[8:30:48] Voice 36: And I think this is, I would vote against this

[8:30:50] Voice 36: because I think it's at the very least premature

[8:30:54] Voice 36: in terms of we don't have an idea of how much it would cost.

[8:30:57] Voice 36: We don't know what the extent of it would be.

[8:30:59] Voice 36: And I think we need the feedback from the ombudsperson

[8:31:02] Voice 36: at the very least before we,

[8:31:03] Voice 36: I think that staff and the committee

[8:31:06] Voice 36: want to do some more work on this.

[8:31:08] Voice 36: And then the next step after that

[8:31:10] Voice 36: would be the ombudsperson.

[8:31:12] Voice 36: And if we're still confused or it's too complex

[8:31:15] Voice 36: And we need to have more advanced opinions than I think we would consider spending whatever amount of money, whatever that might be.

[8:31:27] Voice 25: Trustee Evans.

[8:31:30] Trustee Evans: Thank you. You just said a lot of what I was going to say. There is work that's still to be done. This is early days. This is still early draft.

[8:31:37] Trustee Evans: um if we were to go and hire someone to do this we still have to get this work done ourselves

[8:31:45] Trustee Evans: in order to hand it over to make sure that it's polished off correctly we've got we've got to get

[8:31:52] Trustee Evans: our positions in here first so that work still has to go back to rpc and trustee getty's correct

[8:31:59] Trustee Evans: it still has to go back to the ombudsperson that's already i believe in there and as well

[8:32:04] Trustee Evans: Well, a legal opinion is already lined up to go through this.

[8:32:09] Trustee Evans: So I don't I'm not going to be in support of this at this stage.

[8:32:15] Trustee Evans: Should this come back at a later date after we've got our position and everything ready and then we decide that we need to do this, then I would be better positioned to agree.

[8:32:27] Trustee Evans: But today I cannot.

[8:32:30] Voice 25: Mr. Graham, as

[8:32:32] Trustee Luckham: long as your speakers listen.

[8:32:33] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[8:32:36] Voice 38: I'm always troubled when I see a trust bylaw enforcement, because it's bylaw compliance and enforcement. And I appreciate from Joe's experience that how he eloquently said enforcement is about distributing pain.

[8:32:50] Voice 38: but our goal of course is to is to bring the problem in a compliant and happy often I would

[8:33:00] Voice 38: think that the bylaw officers are dealing with someone who didn't know that they were doing

[8:33:05] Voice 38: something wrong that that's been my experience on Denman I do appreciate having the ability to

[8:33:10] Voice 38: tailor our bylaw enforcement mechanism on Denman it's I think it's worked really really well

[8:33:16] Voice 38: Well, that's worked.

[8:33:18] Voice 38: On the other hand, I was a bit shocked when I read the best practices guide, because I

[8:33:26] Voice 38: really thought that was the, what's the current term you guys are using, public face document.

[8:33:32] Voice 38: And that, the way I read it was the antithesis of a public document.

[8:33:37] Voice 38: So I was a little worried that we didn't have the expertise to put that particular document

[8:33:42] Voice 38: together.

[8:33:43] Voice 38: So I'm on the fence on this particular motion. I really appreciate Joe for bringing his professional expertise to the table. That's one of the advantages of hiring, or I'm sorry, electing people like him with their experience to trust counsel. We have the, you know, the advantage of having their experience here at the table. So, yeah, confused at the moment.

[8:34:08] Trustee Luckham: So I think we have six or eight people, maybe more on the speaker's list on this. I would like I would like to actually go to a vote because I haven't heard a lot. There is a motion in the wings to take it back to RPC. Oh, I'm not going to then. So, OK, that was what I heard half an hour ago or 20 minutes ago. So what do you want to do, counsel?

[8:34:33] Trustee Luckham: Council. Okay. Well, a motion to postpone requires vote. And so I'm going to go to Laura.

[8:34:53] Trustee Patrick: I'll try it. I did send it in. I move that the motion be postponed until a permanent

[8:35:01] Trustee Patrick: CEO has advised Trust Council on the bylaw enforcement review project.

[8:35:06] Trustee Luckham: Right. Do I

[8:35:07] Trustee Patrick: have a seconder?

[8:35:08] Trustee Luckham: Seconded Lisa Gavro. All right. This is debatable.

[8:35:13] Voice 31: yeah

[8:35:14] Trustee Luckham: so on on the motion to

[8:35:16] Voice 22: postpone could um the director martyr please explain how that works

[8:35:21] Voice 22: like is this i i was under the understanding that once the motion's on the floor it has to

[8:35:27] Voice 22: be dealt with now we have the second motion so i i don't understand the process so perhaps you

[8:35:31] Voice 22: can explain thank you yeah

[8:35:33] Voice 7: so motions like motion to postpone override the main motion so now it's

[8:35:39] Voice 7: on the floor you need to make a decision on this and then after that you can go back to the main

[8:35:43] Voice 7: motion and because it's postponed to a future meeting it is debatable and

[8:35:49] Trustee Luckham: we could debate it

[8:35:50] Trustee Luckham: at infinitum or we could just simply vote on it so uh new speakers list off you go

[8:35:55] Trustee Luckham: so i

[8:35:58] Trustee Evans: guess my question is if this decision is postponed then that also means that rpc cannot

[8:36:04] Trustee Evans: continue its work on this because you need to have the first item which is the ltc compliance

[8:36:12] Trustee Evans: and enforcement policy template added to the um uh project charter and you also can't continue

[8:36:19] Trustee Evans: work on the amendments on the um the second document and you also can't create the plain

[8:36:27] Trustee Evans: language version of the public facing one as part of the second amendment is that correct

[8:36:35] Trustee Luckham: i'd like to uh comment on that but it seems to me that if we don't endorse these two motions

[8:36:40] Trustee Luckham: that are in here the work comes to a grinding halt and whether or not we go out for a legal

[8:36:45] Trustee Luckham: counsel on developing a policy or we do this um unless you uh endorse these the work is in the

[8:36:53] Trustee Luckham: stasis at the moment correct and

[8:36:57] Voice 21: that's that's what it says to me absolutely we'll stop work

[8:37:00] Voice 21: immediately okay

[8:37:02] Trustee Luckham: uh next speaker i

[8:37:05] Voice 20: support motion to postpone um i am not able to support uh

[8:37:13] Voice 20: an unspecified amount i would certainly want to know what uh financial commitment would be

[8:37:22] Voice 20: be looking at um i'll leave it at that thank you that's

[8:37:30] Trustee Luckham: it okay um i was gonna say i think there's

[8:37:34] Trustee Luckham: merit in joe's motion however i don't know that we're ready to go there yet so let's uh call the

[8:37:40] Trustee Luckham: vote oh is there somebody over here to vote no so let's uh go to the motion it's up on the on the

[8:37:47] Trustee Luckham: the wall there those in favor please raise your hands

[8:37:52] Voice 20: postponing postponing

[8:37:55] Trustee Luckham: we're going to postpone

[8:37:59] Trustee Luckham: are you postponing

[8:38:00] Trustee Luckham: okay

[8:38:01] Voice 26: um

[8:38:08] Trustee Luckham: lower your hands please those opposed okay so uh let's respond to and so um there we

[8:38:28] Trustee Luckham: We haven't.

[8:38:28] Trustee Luckham: And so I think something of the intention here is that this precludes advancing the

[8:38:35] Trustee Luckham: two motions that are in our package today.

[8:38:37] Trustee Luckham: And so if there's no motions, then...

[8:38:41] Voice 26: No, we're proposing the motion.

[8:38:45] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[8:38:45] Trustee Luckham: So what do you want to do with these things then?

[8:38:49] Trustee Luckham: Perfect.

[8:38:55] Trustee Luckham: Do we have an existing speaker list or are we in a different place now?

[8:38:58] Trustee Luckham: We're in a different place.

[8:38:59] Trustee Luckham: Okay.

[8:39:00] Trustee Luckham: I'm going to start from the beginning and I'm going to go to Christina Evans.

[8:39:03] Trustee Evans: I would like to make the first motion that Trust Council approves the amended bylaw compliance

[8:39:10] Trustee Evans: and enforcement policy review updates project charter to include a local trust committee

[8:39:17] Trustee Evans: bylaw compliance and enforcement policy template.

[8:39:22] Trustee Luckham: Seconded by Trustee Elliott.

[8:39:24] Trustee Luckham: Excellent.

[8:39:25] Trustee Luckham: Wish to speak to the motion?

[8:39:27] Trustee Evans: I would just like to get this on the project charter so that we can actually officially

[8:39:31] Trustee Evans: carry on.

[8:39:32] Trustee Evans: this is not as thank you so much for clarifying earlier this is not to

[8:39:37] Trustee Evans: endorse what's in this package that is just to show where they got to the work

[8:39:43] Trustee Evans: has to continue they are aware of it right any

[8:39:47] Trustee Luckham: other speakers on the motion

[8:39:48] Trustee Luckham: all right I'm gonna call the vote hold on a second just hang on a second there

[8:39:56] Trustee Luckham: Jamie I heard from Jamie oh I say it's hard to tell whose voice it is over the

[8:40:03] Trustee Luckham: thing but then that must be trustee campbell well

[8:40:06] Voice 18: how about an apology from the chair it wasn't

[8:40:08] Voice 18: trustee harris i

[8:40:10] Voice 5: thought i thought we were just informed that if the postponement went through

[8:40:18] Voice 5: that we were not moving this forward that's what was just was just the discussion before the vote

[8:40:24] Voice 5: so

[8:40:25] Trustee Luckham: let me be clear then that if the what i said was that if these two motions are not moved and

[8:40:31] Trustee Luckham: carried the work would be postponed but there is an interest in the work going forward and so the

[8:40:37] Trustee Luckham: motion is on the floor and it was moved was it seconded yes and so is there any further discussion

[8:40:50] Trustee Luckham: not seeing any hands up anywhere i'm going to call the vote all those in favor which motion

[8:40:58] Trustee Luckham: the motion on this on the screen which is that the trust council approved the amended bylaw

[8:41:04] Trustee Luckham: law compliance and enforcement policy review updates project charter to include a local

[8:41:10] Trustee Luckham: trust committee bylaw compliance and enforcement policy template please raise your hand if you're

[8:41:15] Trustee Luckham: in favor

[8:41:20] Voice 26: 16 all right

[8:41:24] Trustee Luckham: so you lower your hand and please those opposed to the motion raise your

[8:41:30] Trustee Luckham: hands all

[8:41:36] Voice 26: right

[8:41:38] Trustee Luckham: so that motion carries thank you council um is there another motion

[8:41:43] Trustee Luckham: trustee evans i'm

[8:41:47] Trustee Evans: going to adjust this one ever so slightly

[8:41:48] Voice 26: that

[8:41:50] Trustee Evans: trust council endorse the

[8:41:52] Trustee Evans: continuation of drafting the amendments to trust council bylaw compliance and enforcement policy

[8:42:00] Trustee Evans: policy 5.5.1 and provide regional planning committee direction to create a plain language

[8:42:07] Trustee Evans: version of the bylaw compliance and enforcement best practices manual all

[8:42:13] Trustee Luckham: right that's coming

[8:42:14] Trustee Luckham: up on the screen there so bear with us a moment everybody online and in the room

[8:42:19] Trustee Luckham: and we'll get it a bit bigger when that's finished being edited

[8:43:31] Voice 28: You

[8:43:36] Trustee Luckham: satisfied with that? Okay, so the motion is on the screen. It's moved. Did I have a seconder?

[8:43:43] Trustee Luckham: Susan Yates, thank you. And you wish to speak to the motion.

[8:43:50] Trustee Evans: I wish for this work to go back to RPC to continue with the changes that they were making to this

[8:43:57] Trustee Evans: document. This is just a snapshot in time, as I understand it, so that they have an opportunity

[8:44:02] Trustee Evans: to position where Trust Council should land.

[8:44:06] Trustee Evans: And at that point,

[8:44:07] Trustee Evans: should Trustee Bernardo's motion come back,

[8:44:12] Trustee Evans: then we will have a document

[8:44:13] Trustee Evans: that can go forward to a review somewhere else.

[8:44:18] Trustee Luckham: All right.

[8:44:20] Trustee Luckham: Any other speakers on the motion, Trustee Harris?

[8:44:27] Voice 18: Trustee Harris?

[8:44:29] Voice 18: Thank you.

[8:44:30] Voice 18: Yeah, with what's written in the thing now,

[8:44:34] Voice 18: Now, you know, Section 5.1, bylaw enforcement officers are authorized under the land use bylaw to enter any lot at any reasonable time to determine if regulations are being observed.

[8:44:45] Voice 18: I can't, in good conscience, and honestly, I'm appalled at the thought of endorsing anything with that language on it.

[8:44:51] Voice 18: If that was removed, then yeah, but I can't vote in favor of this. Thank you.

[8:44:56] Voice 18: Thank

[8:44:57] Trustee Luckham: you. I think members of RPC and staff have heard those remarks from you and others,

[8:45:03] Trustee Luckham: and I'm sure that it will be taken into consideration. Other speakers? Trustee Bowen.

[8:45:10] Voice 27: I'm still ambivalent.

[8:45:13] Voice 40: I'm still ambivalent because I'd probably vote for it, but I just

[8:45:20] Voice 40: want to make the point that it implies that editing policy 5.5.1, like just manually and

[8:45:28] Voice 40: mechanically editing that is going to deliver us something that will make our hearts feel better

[8:45:34] Voice 40: and I don't think so I think what we at RPC have to do is go back and look at the ombudsman's report

[8:45:43] Voice 40: and the very starting point of trying to do what the ombudsman asked us to do so you know I don't

[8:45:54] Voice 40: know how to rephrase that here but that's what the work is not you know just continue to you know

[8:46:03] Voice 40: swap out a word here swap out a phrase there like there's fundamental stuff that we have to tackle

[8:46:09] Voice 40: in this that go beyond that thank you right

[8:46:13] Trustee Luckham: so thank you for those remarks that's obviously on

[8:46:16] Trustee Luckham: the audio record and again uh hopefully those involved will consider it any other speakers

[8:46:22] Trustee Luckham: Here's Dr. Evans.

[8:46:25] Trustee Luckham: So

[8:46:25] Trustee Evans: I'd just like to also state that I spent quite a long period of time with

[8:46:32] Trustee Evans: Steph Zermack yesterday going over,

[8:46:34] Trustee Evans: because I went and studied the report from the ombudsperson's office and this

[8:46:40] Trustee Evans: in great detail.

[8:46:41] Trustee Evans: And I have given him a lot of suggestions and edits to bring us into alignment

[8:46:50] Trustee Evans: with that report.

[8:46:51] Trustee Evans: court. So I know that this is going to go back to the RPC. This is a work in progress. This has

[8:46:56] Trustee Evans: just started. They haven't had a chance to do this work yet. So they're asking for the ability

[8:47:03] Trustee Evans: to continue doing the work that is necessary. And like I said earlier, if we can get this work done

[8:47:10] Trustee Evans: and position ourselves, then at that point, if we decide to go with Trustee Bernardo's suggestion

[8:47:15] Trustee Evans: and hire someone we at least have our position to give them thank

[8:47:22] Trustee Luckham: you trustee evans and the other

[8:47:24] Trustee Luckham: speakers i see a hand up

[8:47:29] Voice 18: there uh jamie harris i don't understand that rationale um i'm sorry

[8:47:34] Voice 18: maybe someone can explain it to me but if if it's going to be changed why i i almost feel like we're

[8:47:40] Voice 18: being strong-armed into endorsing this thing with that kind of language on it if it can be if it's

[8:47:44] Voice 18: going to be changed it's going to work in progress then why are we being asked to endorse it there's

[8:47:48] Voice 18: There's no way I will ever endorse anything with that kind of language on it.

[8:47:51] Voice 18: Thank you.

[8:47:53] Trustee Luckham: Julia Mobs.

[8:47:55] Voice 10: As I understand the motion on the floor, it's not endorsing the drafts that are in this agenda.

[8:48:01] Voice 10: It is endorsing continuation of the work so that this policy can go back to the Regional Planning Committee and trustees there can give staff direction as to the changes it does want to see.

[8:48:12] Voice 10: That policy would then travel back to Trust Council.

[8:48:16] Voice 10: So Trust Council as a whole could weigh in on the draft amendments.

[8:48:20] Voice 10: This policy ultimately belongs to Trust Council and trustees have the authority to amend it as they see fit.

[8:48:27] Voice 10: This motion helps staff continue to move this piece of work along.

[8:48:32] Voice 10: We have been hearing comments that bylaw enforcement is an important topic right now that needs focus.

[8:48:39] Voice 10: This allows us to continue giving that work the focus it needs.

[8:48:49] Voice 25: trustee you're collecting your thoughts you want to speak yeah

[8:48:53] Voice 22: um bylaw enforcement um was actually

[8:48:57] Voice 22: one of the very first things that came up at one i'd maybe the first or one of the very first

[8:49:02] Voice 22: meetings that we had we had somebody who had similar um that made a similar delegation to

[8:49:09] Voice 22: the one we heard from the much residents um similar objections and problems and

[8:49:14] Voice 22: And that precipitated the overture to the ombudsperson's office.

[8:49:20] Voice 22: That was almost two years ago.

[8:49:23] Voice 22: My concern about this motion is I understand the merits of it.

[8:49:28] Voice 22: And, Trustee Evans, you know, there's some good sense in the idea that we would develop, you know, an outline or our own approach.

[8:49:34] Voice 22: And then, if necessary, have it vetted by the ombudsperson.

[8:49:39] Voice 22: And then, if necessary, after that, take it to an expert to deal with.

[8:49:43] Voice 22: That might work.

[8:49:44] Voice 22: we might well end up in the right place after that my concern is this um we had you know i started

[8:49:52] Voice 22: out two years ago we had these complaints i had the issue i talked about before my previous remarks

[8:49:56] Voice 22: that i had to deal with and we had to deal with at our ltc my concern is the amount of time this

[8:50:03] Voice 22: is taking because the the longer we don't reach clarity and effectiveness and you know land at

[8:50:12] Voice 22: the right level for enforcement the more the prospect is that we visit unnecessary trouble

[8:50:19] Voice 22: on people and i would have thought i had hoped at the beginning of this thing two years ago

[8:50:26] Voice 22: that we'd have a sense of urgency about doing the right thing by our residents

[8:50:31] Voice 22: i know we're all trying to do that but i'm very worried that if we continue down this path

[8:50:35] Voice 22: we're looking at you know another year or longer before we ever get anywhere whereas if actually

[8:50:42] Voice 22: you know, we cut to the chase. Hire the right expert. We could get the deliverable done in

[8:50:48] Voice 22: three months. Now, I know that motion fell away, but that's why I have to vote against this motion.

[8:50:56] Voice 25: Thank you, Joe.

[8:50:59] Voice 25: Trustee Borthwick.

[8:51:02] Voice 34: Yeah, I was just going to respond very quickly. Trustee Harris, I share your concern about

[8:51:08] Voice 34: entering properties and so on and so forth. Should this go forward, let me be very clear

[8:51:16] Voice 34: that rbc will be having that discussion that was the whole crux of our bylaw enforcement policy on

[8:51:21] Voice 34: on denman about putting in some guidelines around that and i i think that's very important and i

[8:51:26] Voice 34: yeah if this does go forward that will absolutely be front and center in our my deliberations on

[8:51:32] Voice 34: this topic christy

[8:51:38] Voice 25: yates is the last speaker

[8:51:39] Voice 29: i

[8:51:41] Voice 3: can't tell you how grateful i am to even

[8:51:45] Voice 3: even contemplate this work moving forward and how grateful I am that the Regional Planning Committee

[8:51:51] Voice 3: is willing to take it on because that's where the work needs to be done to provide all of us

[8:51:59] Voice 3: a template, a model, something to go forward with. And I can tell you right now that even in the last

[8:52:09] Voice 3: few months that the bylaw enforcement officer and manager Dingman have been

[8:52:15] Voice 3: using some of this good work to do some of the work supporting our local trust

[8:52:22] Voice 3: committee and I am so grateful for that it has really been helpful and just

[8:52:28] Voice 3: lastly incorporating mediation principles is how you get to good

[8:52:36] Voice 3: good compliance. It doesn't mean that you're a mediator or that you're going into mediation.

[8:52:41] Voice 3: It means you're using mediation principles, which are a really good thing to do with bylaw

[8:52:50] Voice 3: compliance. So thank you so much for this good work, Director Cermak, and also for the review,

[8:52:57] Voice 3: Director Mobs. Thank you.

[8:53:02] Trustee Luckham: If there's no more speakers, I'll call the vote. All those in favor,

[8:53:07] Trustee Luckham: favor please lower your hands and please those opposed raise your hands

[8:53:29] Voice 26: so that

[8:53:33] Trustee Luckham: carries so council at four minutes before our scheduled break i think we all

[8:53:39] Trustee Luckham: deserve a break let us adjourn let us recess till tomorrow morning at 8 30 we will be going

[8:53:47] Trustee Luckham: in camera at that time and the public meeting ideally will convene at 9.30. Julia Mobs or

[8:53:58] Trustee Luckham: Lori, do you have any logistics or other remarks for the end of the day? Yes, after the in-camera.

[8:54:09] Trustee Luckham: Yeah.