Islands Trust Governance Committee regular meeting, January 29, 2025

[0:00:00] Voice 15: of the Governance Committee of the Islands Trust, we've got an agenda and I'm going to call the

[0:00:07] Voice 15: meeting to order now. I want to do a land acknowledgement first of all. I'm living,

[0:00:13] Voice 15: working and playing in the traditional territory of the Squamish people and a number of other

[0:00:20] Voice 15: Coast Salish people in the area and I'm happy to be enjoying all of this bright, sunny, cold

[0:00:29] Voice 15: January weather. So here we are. We've got much to be thankful for. And as we figure out all of the

[0:00:40] Voice 15: work on our agenda today, we've got five hours set aside. And just to give you some sort of a

[0:00:48] Voice 15: brief outline, I'm thinking that a lot of the preliminary work can be done in perhaps a half

[0:00:54] Voice 15: And then we've got this governance review recommendations request for decision. And I think that should be an hour and a half, maybe a bit longer. And then we've got the business case for the secretariat and this correspondence from Trustee Middleton.

[0:01:16] Voice 15: And I see you're here now. Thanks. And whether that comes in as part of that, whether it's I'm not I'm going to be asking if you've had a chance to read that.

[0:01:28] Voice 15: But that could be another hour or so or maybe half an hour.

[0:01:32] Voice 15: And then the review of the budget requests and the review of the review of the mandate, maybe 30 minutes each.

[0:01:38] Voice 15: And then that takes us up to the five hours that are scheduled.

[0:01:43] Voice 15: scheduled so it's a long meeting it's the first five hour one that we've had and I'm sure it's

[0:01:50] Voice 15: going to be enough time to get through all of this but as I say as we get through into some of this

[0:01:59] Voice 15: we may have to go into closed and I'll get your advice and and consideration of that when we get

[0:02:06] Voice 15: to it. So that's my basic outline of how I think this meeting is going to go. So first on is the

[0:02:17] Voice 15: agenda. So there's new items with respect to this correspondence. Did everybody receive

[0:02:23] Voice 15: Trustee Middleton's letter that came out late yesterday? All right. So I'm going to suggest

[0:02:32] Voice 15: just that we put that into Section 9, New Business,

[0:02:35] Voice 15: and that we combine the Secretariat business case with that discussion, right?

[0:02:44] Voice 15: So that we don't discuss the Secretariat business case

[0:02:47] Voice 15: before we've had a chance to talk about that correspondence.

[0:02:52] Voice 15: And before we get into the correspondence,

[0:02:56] Voice 15: I'm going to be asking whether or not you've had enough time to read it, digest it,

[0:03:01] Voice 15: think about it and uh prepared to talk about it so we can it is a late item it is pretty hefty

[0:03:09] Voice 15: and uh we might want to take some time with it but in terms of where it goes on the agenda at

[0:03:16] Voice 15: this point i'm suggesting section nine new business anybody opposed to that kate louise

[0:03:24] Voice 15: is that a cat yes it is i just got rid of my dog

[0:03:32] Trustee Stamford: no no it's not it's not a cat what is it

[0:03:38] Trustee Stamford: It doesn't matter.

[0:03:39] Voice 15: We've got five hours.

[0:03:40] Voice 15: A furry beast.

[0:03:41] Voice 15: Okay.

[0:03:42] Voice 15: How are we doing with the agenda?

[0:03:45] Voice 13: Any

[0:03:45] Voice 15: other late items?

[0:03:46] Voice 15: Any other comments with respect to reorganizing it?

[0:03:51] Voice 15: All right.

[0:03:52] Voice 15: So can I get approval of the agenda?

[0:03:58] Voice 15: Thank you, Kate Louise.

[0:04:01] Voice 15: Anybody opposed?

[0:04:05] Voice 15: All right.

[0:04:05] Voice 15: That's carried.

[0:04:07] Voice 15: Any people here for public comment?

[0:04:10] Voice 8: Yes, Chair.

[0:04:11] Voice 8: There is one person, Maxine Lecter, as an attendee.

[0:04:16] Voice 15: All right.

[0:04:17] Voice 8: Will I allow her to talk?

[0:04:19] Voice 15: Does she want to say something?

[0:04:21] Voice 15: This is the time.

[0:04:26] Voice 4: I'm attending via this method because I cannot access the meeting via the other method.

[0:04:35] Voice 4: I don't have anything to say.

[0:04:37] Voice 4: I very much appreciate you letting me attend via this method.

[0:04:43] Voice 15: You're more than welcome.

[0:04:45] Voice 15: All right.

[0:04:45] Voice 15: So at the very, very end, typically there's questions in terms of what the discussions are in the agenda,

[0:04:53] Voice 15: but we're struggling a little bit with how this meeting might end in terms of if we do go into a close.

[0:05:01] Voice 15: So welcome your attendance, and any comments that you might have might have to be given to us somehow after the meeting.

[0:05:11] Voice 15: I'm not very technologically savvy, so I'm not sure how to go in and out of a closed meeting,

[0:05:15] Voice 15: But we'll deal with that when we get to it.

[0:05:18] Voice 15: Thank you for being here.

[0:05:20] Voice 15: Any delegations?

[0:05:21] Voice 15: I see none on the agenda.

[0:05:25] Voice 15: The correspondence is the letter from Trustee Middleton.

[0:05:31] Voice 15: And as I say, that should be considered later if we get to it.

[0:05:38] Voice 15: Any of the comments with respect to the draft minutes?

[0:05:44] Voice 15: Thank you again, Jamie, for chairing that.

[0:05:46] Voice 15: Trustee Harris, sorry.

[0:05:47] Voice 15: Okay, so then I'm going to suggest that by consent, the draft minutes of November 5th, the resolutions, or sorry, the follow-up action list, all be agreed to and passed by consent, unless there's somebody opposed.

[0:06:15] Voice 15: Okay, no opposition, then that's by consent.

[0:06:18] Voice 15: We'll get into the work program.

[0:06:19] Voice 15: So 7.1, the 2022 Governance Report Recommendations, a Request for Decision.

[0:06:27] Voice 15: So, sorry, Tim.

[0:06:30] Voice 10: Oh, I just wondered if there was anything on the follow-up action list that CAO Brone wanted to apprise us of.

[0:06:41] Voice 14: Thank you, Vice Chair Peterson.

[0:06:42] Voice 14: No, I think we're dealing with the most substantive item today on the agenda.

[0:06:48] Voice 14: and I think the others are fairly self-explanatory

[0:06:50] Voice 14: unless anyone has any questions.

[0:06:51] Voice 14: Thanks.

[0:06:55] Voice 15: Okay, thank you.

[0:07:00] Voice 15: So we've got this governance report recommendations

[0:07:04] Voice 15: and the motion that we had at the December meeting

[0:07:10] Voice 15: was for us to present,

[0:07:14] Voice 15: have some sort of a presentation

[0:07:15] Voice 15: at a Committee of the Whole meeting

[0:07:17] Voice 15: on or before June Trust Council meeting

[0:07:21] Voice 15: meeting so that if there were going to be any recommendations. So that means having to schedule

[0:07:29] Voice 15: a committee of the whole meeting. And I think what our discussions today are, what are we going to do

[0:07:34] Voice 15: with that committee of the whole? What content do we want to present and focus on? And how do we

[0:07:44] Voice 15: present it? And who's going to be, if we divide it up, who's going to be doing that presentation?

[0:07:49] Voice 15: So one of the recommendations is that the chair of the Governance Committee chair that committee of the whole.

[0:07:58] Voice 15: So I get a chance at wrangling cats, but I

[0:08:04] Voice 15: don't know if that's going to be in debate, but the rest is I think open for that's the major part of our discussion today.

[0:08:12] Voice 15: So we've got an attachment one that goes through the 15 recommendations from the

[0:08:19] Voice 15: the governance review. I suppose, first of all, is there anything that people want to add or

[0:08:29] Voice 15: consider in addition to that list in the attachment? I don't see any hands, right?

[0:08:38] Voice 15: Sorry, Trustee Bernardo.

[0:08:42] Voice 11: Yeah, just to get things started, I thought that this memo is quite useful

[0:08:48] Voice 11: and quite helpful um i do have some specific comments about different emphasis and you know

[0:08:56] Voice 11: there's some bits in it i don't agree but the general agree with but there's the general thrust

[0:09:02] Voice 11: of it i think is quite helpful and i think it's whatever discussion we have at trust council it's

[0:09:07] Voice 11: useful to have um a frame a framework around which the discussion can take place um and typically we

[0:09:14] Voice 11: do that by presenting trust council with a decision to make to sort of structure the thinking

[0:09:19] Voice 11: thinking. That's this component of it. But as Chair, you mentioned at the December Trust

[0:09:25] Voice 11: Council meeting, I think with the discussion there, the resolution of Trust Council there

[0:09:36] Voice 11: was for something more than this. I view this as a component of what Trust Council needs

[0:09:44] Voice 11: needs and wants and has asked for. What's been missing for the past two years is the report has

[0:09:50] Voice 11: not been on the table, put on the table for open discussion amongst trustees. This alone would

[0:09:59] Voice 11: narrow the discussion. I think it's incumbent on us, and I think this is the premise of what was

[0:10:07] Voice 11: decided in December, it's incumbent on us as the governance committee to provide the backup

[0:10:13] Voice 11: up analysis that justifies um these decisions however we land on them after we discuss the

[0:10:20] Voice 11: individual recommendations in it but uh uh they and where i'm coming from this is the government's

[0:10:27] Voice 11: report is is a bit of a mixed bag i mean there's some sort of soft things in there and just because

[0:10:33] Voice 11: the recommendations have been made doesn't necessarily

[0:10:35] Voice 11: mean they have to be accepted

[0:10:36] Voice 11: i think most of them should be but i actually more important than that i think that's a

[0:10:41] Voice 11: The discussion about what recommendations to accept and which to prioritize, that has to happen at the trustee, at the trust council level as well.

[0:10:53] Voice 11: So that's why I'm saying that I think what's outstanding here is that it is an analysis of the report that we should be able to provide to the trustees as a whole to have a discussion.

[0:11:08] Voice 11: So I would think that's kind of the missing piece here in terms of answering what we were asked to provide in December.

[0:11:16] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:11:21] Voice 15: Director Marler.

[0:11:23] Voice 1: Yeah, thank you.

[0:11:24] Voice 1: And I don't want to take away from what Trustee Bernardo just said there.

[0:11:28] Voice 1: I think that's important.

[0:11:29] Voice 1: I just wanted to just take a minute just to explain the intent of this to you and going to council.

[0:11:37] Voice 1: so what we've done is simply looked at the recommendations in the governance report

[0:11:43] Voice 1: identified the work that's already been undertaken so that's the attachment that's

[0:11:49] Voice 1: on page 17 of the agenda and came up with some recommendations for consideration by the

[0:11:56] Voice 1: governance committee to deal with each one because it would be a lot of work to analyze all 15 so you

[0:12:03] Voice 1: might want to create some sort of priority and that's the intent here is to say well these

[0:12:12] Voice 1: these particular recommendations of Great Northern we're already working on that in a different way

[0:12:19] Voice 1: so you may not want to do anything more for example a provincial request some of them can

[0:12:26] Voice 1: just be done by staff and we've identified where we can make changes and how to deal with that and

[0:12:31] Voice 1: And I think it comes down to about three that, from my point of view, seem to be the ones that you might want to focus on.

[0:12:38] Voice 1: Now, I could be wrong. So I've just put this in front of you.

[0:12:42] Voice 1: But the idea is that the governance committee will then own whatever recommendation it would like to make through Committee of the Whole to Trust Council on how it should proceed with reviewing and analysing the work done by Great Northern.

[0:12:58] Voice 1: then so I think if you can focus it to those that are more important to you right now and then

[0:13:05] Voice 1: if council agrees then we can figure out what kind of support you need to do that analysis

[0:13:13] Voice 1: whether we need to hire a consultant whether it can be done by staff or some other method

[0:13:18] Voice 1: so that's the intent here I just wanted to kind of put that out there because I don't want you

[0:13:23] Voice 1: you to feel that staff are telling you how or what should happen this is just a recommendation

[0:13:28] Voice 1: and when it gets to council i'm hoping that this the governance committee will own whatever you're

[0:13:33] Voice 1: going to recommend to council we'll do whatever you want um but just trying to get you started on

[0:13:38] Voice 1: how to approach it thank you i'm

[0:13:42] Voice 15: going to suggest that we go through the attachment one and in some

[0:13:48] Voice 15: detail and that that's possibly going to be the bulk of our discussion today and then um and if

[0:13:56] Voice 15: there's i've got some question marks around some of it but um see whether or not we can agree on

[0:14:02] Voice 15: this analysis um and whether or not we want to um put any analysis that we've got um in addition to

[0:14:12] Voice 15: this report in terms of having that as part of the committee of the whole and um then the um going

[0:14:20] Voice 15: through the the recommendations of um that have been suggested from the governance committee to

[0:14:27] Voice 15: trust council for the june meeting so that's uh page 13 and 14 of the agenda trustee peterson

[0:14:34] Voice 15: Thank

[0:14:37] Voice 10: you, Chair. I just want to support the notion that I think it is reasonable to at least set aside some time for open discussion at Committee of the Whole in a more general sense about the governance report and the recommendations,

[0:14:58] Voice 10: recommendations, which is not to say I don't support the approach to focus on the individual

[0:15:06] Voice 10: recommendations and prioritize. I do. But I think Trustee Bernardo is right. The Trust Council

[0:15:13] Voice 10: hasn't had an opportunity to have a substantive discussion in a more general sense about the

[0:15:22] Voice 10: report yet. And that's one of the things I think has been lacking. So I think we need to at least

[0:15:28] Voice 10: set aside some space at that committee of the whole meeting for that more general discussion

[0:15:34] Voice 10: as well as the recommendations from the governance committee thank you all

[0:15:41] Voice 15: right my understanding was

[0:15:43] Voice 15: that after the report was tabled in march of 22 there was i believe at the june council meeting

[0:15:51] Voice 15: there was a number of workshops with the previous council in terms of going through in detail and

[0:15:58] Voice 15: and prioritizing and commenting on the recommendations.

[0:16:04] Voice 15: I've seen a video of part of that meeting.

[0:16:09] Voice 15: Is that not the case?

[0:16:12] Voice 15: This council has not had a chance to go through it.

[0:16:16] Voice 15: If

[0:16:16] Voice 10: I made sure, my recollection, having been at that June council,

[0:16:22] Voice 10: is that essentially what happened was the governance committee was formed.

[0:16:27] Voice 10: I don't believe that there was ever a free-willing discussion.

[0:16:33] Voice 10: I'm seeing trustees that were there nodding.

[0:16:38] Voice 10: So that's what I'm trying to get at.

[0:16:43] Voice 15: I hear that, okay.

[0:16:44] Voice 15: I was under the impression I'd seen something in terms of there being a workshop

[0:16:48] Voice 15: where you broke out into groups and had discussions about it,

[0:16:51] Voice 15: but I stand corrected.

[0:16:53] Voice 15: Trustee Harris.

[0:16:56] thank

[0:16:58] Voice 7: you and hello everybody uh can you hear me all right

[0:17:02] Voice 15: yes great um

[0:17:05] Voice 7: just to go off of what you

[0:17:07] Voice 7: were um mentioning chair getty about going through this list and recommendation number one um you

[0:17:13] Voice 7: know it seems that i don't know

[0:17:16] Voice 7: if it's just a coincidence pardon me not

[0:17:20] Voice 15: we're not going through

[0:17:21] Voice 15: them in detail quite yet oh

[0:17:25] Voice 6: i must have misheard i apologize okay i'll leave it there then thank you

[0:17:31] Voice 15: trustee luckham are

[0:17:37] Trustee Luckham: we okay yes one two three okay great yeah generally i agree with

[0:17:44] Trustee Luckham: what i've been heard and what i've heard so far and um trustee bernardo captured it quite well

[0:17:52] Trustee Luckham: in that um we haven't actually agreed on which which things in the governance report that we

[0:17:58] Trustee Luckham: agree on. And certainly, there are lots of great suggestions in there, and we need to clarify what

[0:18:05] Trustee Luckham: that detail is. And I appreciate, actually, the work that's gone into creating this report and

[0:18:11] Trustee Luckham: recommendation and identifying the areas that the work could be undertaken. So perhaps this

[0:18:20] Trustee Luckham: is the starting place for the committee as a whole, council as a whole, and ideally, we get

[0:18:27] Trustee Luckham: a good participation in that because indeed, you know, half of council that attended the

[0:18:35] Trustee Luckham: previous committee of the whole meeting doesn't provide full endorsement for moving forward

[0:18:41] Trustee Luckham: with anything this substantial. And so if we can prepare this recommendation in a way that

[0:18:50] Trustee Luckham: provides that opportunity for that discussion, and then from that, it would get narrowed down

[0:18:55] Trustee Luckham: down to a list of priorities,

[0:19:00] Trustee Luckham: then we'd be in a much better place than we are presently.

[0:19:04] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:19:08] Voice 11: Yeah, thank you.

[0:19:09] Voice 11: Just to follow up as I'm bumbling along

[0:19:14] Voice 11: before trying to explain things where I was coming from.

[0:19:18] Voice 11: And Chair, you touched on a point,

[0:19:19] Voice 11: which I think is important,

[0:19:20] Voice 11: that although the previous council touched this report

[0:19:25] Voice 11: in some respect, at least to the extent of,

[0:19:27] Voice 11: as trustee peterson has pointed out to resolve to set up a governance committee sort of to deal

[0:19:32] Voice 11: with it um it certainly doesn't sound like that council uh drilled into the recommendations to

[0:19:39] Voice 11: sort of analyze and assess them uh in open debate but whether it did or it didn't i this council is

[0:19:46] Voice 11: the one that's being asked to set priorities and to advance this thing um and if that's the case

[0:19:51] Voice 11: and it's this council needs an opportunity to um the individual trustees on trust council need

[0:19:57] Voice 11: an opportunity to voice their individual assessments we did that exercise amongst

[0:20:02] Voice 11: ourselves in the governance committee in a much more detailed way of course but we did that at

[0:20:06] Voice 11: the beginning of term when we got this work underway and i think there's a lot of trustees

[0:20:11] Voice 11: who who want that opportunity to weigh in in that general way

[0:20:15] Voice 13: and

[0:20:16] Voice 11: if we work that into the process

[0:20:19] Voice 11: and i think it's actually necessary i think that can be very helpful in terms of consensus building

[0:20:24] Voice 11: And one of the things identified in the governance report was the frustration of trustees who feel like they're being asked to rubber stamp things.

[0:20:31] Voice 11: You know, you know, here's a committee. We've decided these are priorities. What do you think? Do you agree or not?

[0:20:36] Voice 11: And it's just like, hang on. Some of these trustees want a chance to work through the thinking and just presenting a decision before there's a chance for a wide open chance for discussion is one of the very frustrations that we're trying to deal with.

[0:20:49] Voice 11: with. So let's not reproduce that. Because if we do have that open discussion, wherever it goes,

[0:20:55] Voice 11: however it lands, the fact that we had the discussion in that open way is an important

[0:21:01] Voice 11: component of consensus building. And I think something that Chair Luckham had mentioned in

[0:21:07] Voice 11: passing might be helpful, which is, as I mentioned before, I think this memo is quite useful in

[0:21:12] Voice 11: structuring things. But as we do go through it, I think that's an opportunity for us to

[0:21:18] Voice 11: do a certain amount of, you know, we've all been with this work for quite a while, but I think we

[0:21:25] Voice 11: can start injecting the analysis into this document. The analysis doesn't have to be a

[0:21:30] Voice 11: separate thing. And so if we collectively agree with the recommendation, then it's not enough to

[0:21:40] Voice 11: say, okay, we recommend this. I think it's then incumbent on us to do the thing that staff can't

[0:21:44] Voice 11: do with this memo to explain why this recommendation ought to be prioritized or set aside or whatever

[0:21:50] Voice 11: um so that way we could just put the analysis and the structure that staff has has proposed

[0:21:58] Voice 11: we can sort of put that together and that might be a useful tool for the for the trustees thank

[0:22:03] Voice 11: you

[0:22:04] Voice 15: that's the function of today i think trustee luckham your hand is still up and um cao brony

[0:22:11] Voice 14: Thank you, Chair. Yeah, and I think Trustee Bernardo has provided an overview of a kind of a useful path forward there. I think for context, part of the reason that maybe that more fulsome discussion of an analysis at Trust Council of the report, by the current council, it occurs to me maybe because, of course, this governance committee was struck in its terms of reference is to initially review the governance report and submit a prioritized list of recommendations right back to Trust Council with the

[0:22:40] Voice 14: advice on possible actions and so i think that may be a bit of the rationale for the gap why that

[0:22:46] Voice 14: that more that deeper discussion hasn't happened with trust council but we can certainly facilitate

[0:22:51] Voice 14: that as part of the committee of the whole agenda um and and dig a little bit deeper in that overall

[0:22:56] Voice 14: overall analysis and then to trustee bernardo's point bring forward whatever recommendations

[0:23:01] Voice 14: with that supporting rationale from this committee um for discussion that committee the whole and

[0:23:06] Voice 14: to take forward to trust counsel all

[0:23:09] Voice 15: right um i won't tell you about my feelings of being

[0:23:15] Voice 15: defensiveness in terms of thinking that that had been delegated to this committee and that's what

[0:23:19] Voice 15: the work that we did but um cao bronies just summed that up nicely for me so um let's get into

[0:23:25] Voice 15: the um the report and the um the recommendations so we've got um a document that director marler

[0:23:34] Voice 15: has prepared for us in terms of recommendations that's in our agenda pages 10 to 15 and um then

[0:23:44] Voice 15: we've got the the actual attachment with respect to going through the um the recommendations and

[0:23:50] Voice 15: i'm going to suggest that we start with the attachment and then we go back and see whether

[0:23:55] Voice 15: or not we want to um endorse or change or um make other recommend additional recommendations to um

[0:24:04] Voice 15: um, Trust Council. So the first one is the, um, election of Trust Council leadership.

[0:24:12] Voice 15: Um, my, I had a question attached to this one. I believe that there was a, some sort of a report

[0:24:20] Voice 15: or recommendation, um, or analysis that said that there was a problem with, um, legislation,

[0:24:28] Voice 15: legislation or there was a part of the legislation that indicated a specific date that the executive

[0:24:37] Voice 15: had to be chosen by council. It was the first meeting after the inaugural or something. So

[0:24:43] Voice 15: at some point, if we can address that. Trustee Patrick?

[0:24:51] Trustee Patrick: Well, you are correct, Trustee Getty.

[0:24:53] Trustee Patrick: Being that I was on the executive last term, it wasn't as if nothing happened on all this

[0:25:00] Trustee Patrick: recommendations that came from the governance report. This issue in particular was taken up

[0:25:04] Trustee Patrick: by the executive committee of the day. And they did work on looking at the elections and how to

[0:25:12] Trustee Patrick: go about it. And I think there's even a legal opinion that goes with it on what needed to be

[0:25:18] Trustee Patrick: done there. I think the other aspect of this is that all the recommendations in this report are

[0:25:23] Trustee Patrick: interesting. I'll say there's some of the work behind or the root cause analysis or anything

[0:25:29] Trustee Patrick: thing wasn't really done. And I think as a result of when we started looking at how the elections,

[0:25:36] Trustee Patrick: Director Marler himself pulled together a document on all of the delegated responsibilities in

[0:25:43] Trustee Patrick: addition to what's in the legislation that's been put on the executive committee over time. And it's

[0:25:48] Trustee Patrick: huge. And I know I double checked it. I found a few more than Director Marler, but he got nearly

[0:25:55] Trustee Patrick: nearly all of them. There was a lot. I have 13 pages on my report of the delegated activity.

[0:26:00] Trustee Patrick: So there's a subset to this. It's not only the election, but there's a review and understand,

[0:26:05] Trustee Patrick: you know, I understand in 1991 when we delegated authorities to the EC because it was difficult to

[0:26:11] Trustee Patrick: get everybody around. But today with Zoom and other ways, is it still the appropriate level

[0:26:16] Trustee Patrick: of work that's been delegated to the executive committee? Should some of it be brought back to

[0:26:21] Trustee Patrick: it's a trust council and so forth so it's not just a an issue of who do we elect it's what do

[0:26:27] Trustee Patrick: they do and i think that needs to be combined into this recommendation trustee

[0:26:36] Voice 15: luckham you're mute

[0:26:45] Voice 15: okay trustee middleton sorry

[0:26:55] Trustee Luckham: i just wanted to say that trustee patrick had captured the essence of

[0:26:59] Trustee Luckham: the reporting that was done and i think this committee should review that again

[0:27:06] Trustee Luckham: Again, because indeed there are challenges and of course timing is critical here.

[0:27:13] Trustee Luckham: If we're going to make these changes in anticipation of a coming election, those changes need to be in place prior to that, substantially prior to that election.

[0:27:27] Trustee Luckham: So that those that are running as trustees and potentially their eye is on executive committee, what that means needs to be really clear and known. You can't change it in course.

[0:27:43] Voice 15: Is that a legislative change?

[0:27:44] Voice 15: change?

[0:27:45] Trustee Luckham: It would be, yeah. The stress act indicates the requirements of the structure of the executive

[0:27:56] Trustee Luckham: committee. David Marler could address that.

[0:27:59] Voice 15: So, Director Marler, there's reference now to a report

[0:28:03] Voice 15: that was given to the previous executive committee on this, both with respect to delegation and with

[0:28:08] Voice 15: with respect to changes in the election.

[0:28:12] Voice 15: Do you know what they're referring to?

[0:28:14] Voice 1: Yes, there is, I believe

[0:28:16] Voice 1: it's a legal opinion.

[0:28:17] Voice 1: So we could provide that in camera to Governor's Committee

[0:28:20] Voice 1: to like maybe today or later meeting,

[0:28:25] Voice 1: we can find that for you.

[0:28:26] Voice 1: But yeah, the legislation is very clear

[0:28:30] Voice 1: on when the election happens

[0:28:33] Voice 1: and does not have any provision for midterm elections

[0:28:37] Voice 1: of executive committee okay

[0:28:41] Voice 15: so then we need to get that information it seems to me at some point

[0:28:46] Voice 15: it's

[0:28:47] Voice 1: just uh before the

[0:28:48] Voice 15: june or before the cal uh committee of the whole yeah

[0:28:54] Voice 1: make sure you have

[0:28:54] Voice 1: that and just a technical thing because i'm sharing my screen i can't seem to find my

[0:28:59] Voice 1: there doesn't seem to be a visibility to raise my hand so i'm just going to have to do this okay

[0:29:05] Voice 15: i'm going to try to narrow this screen then so i can see everybody if you do raise your hand all

[0:29:10] Voice 15: right trustee middleton

[0:29:12] Voice 2: thank you yes um so a couple points on that we we as the governance

[0:29:18] Voice 2: committee in regard to recommendation one um were seeking to move on that late in the term prior to

[0:29:27] Voice 2: of the election and as director marlo points out the executive uh commissioned um a legal opinion

[0:29:35] Voice 2: which required us to have this discussion then in camera um that there were restrictions on what

[0:29:43] Voice 2: could be done in regard the election of the executive and um the illegal opinion to summarize

[0:29:51] Voice 2: if i'm not mistaken correctly basically say you can't do can't do anything it's got it's got to

[0:29:56] Voice 2: to be the way it is. Now, we have a legal opinion.

[0:30:00] Voice 2: And following the work of the consultants, which is my privilege to waive, because I paid for it, because I just felt, A, this came late in the term, it was not announced that the executive was securing a legal opinion, and so I felt somewhat blindsided at the time.

[0:30:16] Voice 2: And so I contracted Sylvain Dubois, who was the secretary of the Privy Council for several terms of federal government and was the legal consultant used by the management consultants on the report.

[0:30:34] Voice 2: And his view is basically like there's one thing that can be done, but two things that can be done.

[0:30:39] Voice 2: And he basically provided his legal opinion as to why that should be.

[0:30:44] Voice 2: So, as this was not a priority prior to now this list, it seems it's time to present that opinion and perhaps see where the committee wants to go with it.

[0:31:01] Voice 2: But basically the opinion is we have a lot more flexibility than perhaps our own interpretation would suggest.

[0:31:12] Voice 2: So, I mean, I can send that in as in-camera correspondence.

[0:31:16] Voice 2: As I say, I'm happy to make it a public document because it's my privilege to waive.

[0:31:22] Voice 2: I just want to do this in the way that's most constructive.

[0:31:27] Voice 2: And so that's around recommendation A.

[0:31:30] Voice 2: We actually have the ability to implement, to a general degree, the recommendations in the report.

[0:31:37] Voice 2: court. Secondly, I would just say that the general list makes the supposition that the secretariat

[0:31:46] Voice 2: or governance position is not to be pursued. I'm not sure we've made that decision. And if we make

[0:31:54] Voice 2: the decision to in fact pursue research into the secretariat, multiple of these recommendations

[0:32:01] Voice 2: actually would fall under the purview of the Office of the Secretary.

[0:32:06] Voice 2: So I'm thinking we've got this somewhat backwards right now

[0:32:10] Voice 2: in terms of looking at, as is quoted here,

[0:32:14] Voice 2: Recommendation No. 8, Secretary to Trust Council,

[0:32:16] Voice 2: and addressing our view on that before we actually go through

[0:32:21] Voice 2: C, D, E, all would be under the Office of the Secretary

[0:32:26] Voice 2: before we actually engage with those specific recommendations?

[0:32:35] Voice 15: Well, if we did have agreement with respect to the Secretariat,

[0:32:42] Voice 15: that's, you know, the recommendation for funding is to research it.

[0:32:46] Voice 15: And if it was something that was picked up, then that's down the road.

[0:32:53] Voice 15: So I think if we're trying to get this in place, recommendation one,

[0:32:58] Voice 15: in place before

[0:33:00] Voice 15: What is it October 26 that we might have to separate them

[0:33:07] Voice 15: So the recommendation here is that

[0:33:11] Voice 15: Trust Council requests staff to work with the executive to develop a process of election of the executive committee in 26 that

[0:33:18] Voice 15: considers recommendation one

[0:33:20] Voice 15: so it's a work project at this point and

[0:33:25] Voice 15: and we've got two legal opinions that have just popped up.

[0:33:28] Voice 15: So for consideration, Trustee Bernardo.

[0:33:35] Voice 11: Yeah, I agree with you, Chair, that, you know,

[0:33:38] Voice 11: basically, you know, the Secretariat issue is an important one,

[0:33:41] Voice 11: but we'll get to it in due course.

[0:33:43] Voice 11: I mean, it does make sense for us to have a structured discussion

[0:33:45] Voice 11: where we sort of work, you know, weigh in on all these recommendations

[0:33:49] Voice 11: and how we deal with them and the analysis

[0:33:52] Voice 11: and what goes before the Trust Council, you know,

[0:33:54] Voice 11: in a sequence

[0:33:55] Voice 11: so that we can just do this in an orderly fashion.

[0:33:58] Voice 11: I just wanted to say that, first, I agree with Trustee Patrick

[0:34:02] Voice 11: and Trustee Luckin that the election of the chair

[0:34:07] Voice 11: and members of the executive committee can't be separated

[0:34:10] Voice 11: from a reassessment of the policies that define the executive committee's role.

[0:34:17] Voice 11: The recommendation in the memo that staff work on that

[0:34:22] Voice 11: that is therefore necessarily limited to sort of working on those internal policies and that can

[0:34:27] Voice 11: happen. In that respect, I'm not sure about the recommendation that the work should be done in

[0:34:35] Voice 11: conjunction with the executive committee. Arguably, there's a conflict of interest or bias issue

[0:34:41] Voice 11: there. But more globally, it seems to me that type of reassessment of those policies, what it amounts

[0:34:50] Voice 11: to is a reassessment of policies and it seems to me that is one of the handful of areas that

[0:34:58] Voice 11: the governance committee should probably work with staff on in terms of the policy side but

[0:35:03] Voice 11: those policy amendments are only one component of two components to the issue the other component

[0:35:09] Voice 11: is the legislative one that director marler was talking about and it's very clear the legislation

[0:35:16] Voice 11: legislation section 20 whatever it is is unambiguous about it an election if the executive

[0:35:21] Voice 11: committee is supposed to happen as soon as practical after elect after the election uh and

[0:35:26] Voice 11: this is one of those things that i think uh just so that all of us all trustees are thinking about

[0:35:33] Voice 11: it clearly this is where the analysis of the report has to come in because the analysis

[0:35:38] Voice 11: the report in this respect is incorrect to say that it is up to trust council uh you know

[0:35:44] Voice 11: you know, to deal with the timing of the election. That's just not true.

[0:35:52] Voice 11: The legislation says as soon as practical, and that's where we're at. And this discussion about

[0:35:57] Voice 11: electing interim members to executive committee is, I mean, that needs to be fleshed out. It's

[0:36:03] Voice 11: feasible, but only if there's some arrangement where candidates before they run agree to step

[0:36:11] Voice 11: down after a certain period of time so that there can be a new election you know they go in on the

[0:36:16] Voice 11: understanding that it's interim that's purely voluntary and we could have a policy that says

[0:36:21] Voice 11: you know that's a qualification to be a candidate to make that commitment whether that's legally

[0:36:28] Voice 11: sustainable i don't know but whether anybody would mount a legal challenge who knows i doubt it very

[0:36:33] Voice 11: much so i think there's some room there to sort of fool around at the margins in terms of our

[0:36:38] Voice 11: policies to adjust the timing but ultimately that's actually really something uh is an element

[0:36:45] Voice 11: of what the provincial review when it does if it we've managed to get a legislative review

[0:36:50] Voice 11: should look at at that but we need to be clear when we discuss this issue that um just just make

[0:36:58] Voice 11: a discussion efficient if only for that that um it's not on to sort of delay the election and

[0:37:06] Voice 11: And it's not true that we have this tremendous amount of control over the election process.

[0:37:12] Voice 11: And those nuances matter in the discussion.

[0:37:16] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:37:21] Voice 15: Trustee Peterson.

[0:37:24] Voice 10: Yeah, thank you.

[0:37:25] Voice 10: And thank you, Trustee Bernardo, for bringing up a number of those points.

[0:37:29] Voice 10: I think one of the things that I believe Trustee Patrick alluded to, but that's not really captured here, and it's separate from the legislative requirements, but I do think it's worthy every week.

[0:37:47] Voice 10: There's a number of delegated powers to executive committee that have been delegated over the years by Trust Council.

[0:37:57] Voice 10: Those, I think, are worth at the very least a review.

[0:38:03] Voice 10: I think there's a couple of ways to look at it.

[0:38:06] Voice 10: One is the level that Trust Council wants to undertake potentially some of that business and some of those sort of work items.

[0:38:21] Voice 10: And then the other lens would be from looking at the workload of members of EC.

[0:38:30] Voice 10: And certainly in my three terms, there's been several items delegated to EC.

[0:38:39] Voice 10: So I think it's worthy of sort of looking at the delegation issue as well as the election issue.

[0:38:50] Voice 10: And I think it's definitely worthwhile to do a review of what those delegated powers are from Trust Council and to see if that's what Trust Council currently wants to continue.

[0:39:05] Voice 10: I think that's, in terms of a governance topic, I think that's absolutely a reasonable topic to look at.

[0:39:11] Voice 10: It's not really captured in this, and it wasn't really captured, I don't think, in the governance report.

[0:39:17] Voice 10: But in terms of this committee's work, I think that's a very reasonable topic to have a good look at. Thank you.

[0:39:23] Voice 15: Trustee Luckham?

[0:39:27] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Tim, for your analysis there. That got me deep into thought.

[0:39:35] Trustee Luckham: But I just wanted to chime in on what Trustee Bernardo expanded on that a little bit about as soon as it's practicable or whatever the language is that's used.

[0:39:46] Trustee Luckham: used. It's fine enough to have an alternate legal opinion from somebody else that would on the

[0:39:57] Trustee Luckham: surface appear not to have provincial experience, more of a federal experience to suggest that we

[0:40:02] Trustee Luckham: can do it. I don't think our council with significant provincial experience just says

[0:40:08] Trustee Luckham: we can't do it. We can do it. We just have to realize the ramifications and repercussions of

[0:40:13] Trustee Luckham: of doing that. And I'll just maybe shed some light. That includes membership on financial

[0:40:19] Trustee Luckham: planning committee. It includes chairing of LTCs. And so the practical part is to continue business

[0:40:28] Trustee Luckham: of the Allen's Trust post-election. And if you put 50% of the membership of the financial planning

[0:40:37] Trustee Luckham: Committee on hold and stall placing chairs on local trust committee meetings, the ability to

[0:40:44] Trustee Luckham: execute the business would be limited. And certainly, that could be changed. And certainly,

[0:40:50] Trustee Luckham: you know, there's no such thing as a voluntary resignation clause when you get elected. But

[0:40:57] Trustee Luckham: that would be entirely possible as well. But it's definitely not straightforward and ultimately

[0:41:04] Trustee Luckham: would need to be embraced in the legislation.

[0:41:06] Trustee Luckham: So yes, it can be done,

[0:41:07] Trustee Luckham: but we have to be prepared to do the work

[0:41:09] Trustee Luckham: and have sufficient time to do it.

[0:41:11] Trustee Luckham: And as I said earlier, if you want to do it,

[0:41:13] Trustee Luckham: now's the time to get on it.

[0:41:17] Voice 15: Trustee Stamford.

[0:41:20] Trustee Stamford: Yes, thank you, Chair.

[0:41:22] Trustee Stamford: I'm just wondering how we are,

[0:41:26] Trustee Stamford: it's a process question,

[0:41:27] Trustee Stamford: how we're managing these questions,

[0:41:31] Trustee Stamford: because this is really vital on how this is presented

[0:41:34] Trustee Stamford: to other members of Trust Council.

[0:41:39] Trustee Stamford: They need to be somehow appraised of the background in this.

[0:41:47] Trustee Stamford: And I'm more interested in the process of how we get these complications

[0:41:53] Trustee Stamford: to a group discussion over these issues to move them forward.

[0:41:59] Trustee Stamford: Because we have gone through this before and we do tend to get caught up

[0:42:04] Trustee Stamford: um within ourselves on these big meaty questions we actually can't answer right away but um i'm

[0:42:11] Trustee Stamford: more interested in how we move this conversation into a committee of the whole with the rest of

[0:42:19] Trustee Stamford: councils so i just want to make sure that somehow this is being captured and how is it going to be

[0:42:27] Trustee Stamford: responded to when we we move forward on this so people have the right kind of information

[0:42:33] Trustee Stamford: of the complication.

[0:42:35] Trustee Stamford: And I just want to add, as far as I understand,

[0:42:39] Trustee Stamford: the provincial government is not looking at any new legislation right now.

[0:42:46] Trustee Stamford: So if that's going to be our answer,

[0:42:50] Trustee Stamford: then by its definition it's going to be sitting on the table for a long time.

[0:42:58] Voice 15: I was just thinking that much the same, or at least along the same lines

[0:43:03] Voice 15: in terms of what we're talking about today

[0:43:05] Voice 15: is how to present this material to the Trust Council

[0:43:08] Voice 15: and the Committee of the Whole situation

[0:43:10] Voice 15: so we can have a wide-open conversation.

[0:43:12] Voice 15: But we've got this one recommendation,

[0:43:14] Voice 15: the first recommendation from this review,

[0:43:17] Voice 15: and there's questions whether or not it's accurate

[0:43:20] Voice 15: and questions about understanding the legislation,

[0:43:24] Voice 15: questions in terms of how long it would take

[0:43:27] Voice 15: to get any kind of legislative changes,

[0:43:29] Voice 15: changes either because the province is not making any changes to legislation or we're not clear in

[0:43:36] Voice 15: terms of what we're asking for and this whole other subset in terms of the work that's involved

[0:43:46] Voice 15: before we elect somebody to a position are we clear in terms of the work that's involved and

[0:43:51] Voice 15: do we want to have an open discussion in terms of how to focus on that and possibly change it

[0:43:58] Voice 15: And is that a discussion for the whole committee of the whole, or do we, as a governance committee, do some narrowing down of, it's all mushrooming into bigger conversations.

[0:44:12] Voice 15: Can I just

[0:44:14] Trustee Stamford: do a quick follow-up? I think it's possible. I think it's important to have this in a Committee of the Whole discussion, but we need to be really careful on how it's presented so that there is enough background.

[0:44:30] Trustee Stamford: background it's not to hide anything it's just there's enough background for people to understand

[0:44:35] Trustee Stamford: where the starting point of the conversation is that so we're not having to review over again

[0:44:42] Trustee Stamford: why we're set up the way we are and and what the limits are that they have that material ahead of

[0:44:47] Trustee Stamford: time um and then how like i think it's important to talk about this to talk about as we said the

[0:44:54] Trustee Stamford: the job descriptions and what has been downloaded to executive so we all are at the same starting

[0:45:03] Trustee Stamford: point i

[0:45:04] Voice 15: think if you've got some ideas in terms of of what could be included in background that

[0:45:10] Voice 15: would be very helpful trustee harris thank

[0:45:14] Voice 7: you uh so at the last trust council this issue of the

[0:45:23] Voice 7: the election of trust of the executive committee was, you know,

[0:45:29] Voice 7: put onto the governance committee's high and urgent priority list,

[0:45:32] Voice 7: which is great.

[0:45:35] Voice 7: It seems to me that people want to do something in regards to this.

[0:45:39] Voice 7: And I, and in my mind with talk of legislation that perhaps these,

[0:45:46] Voice 7: the issues of delegating what EC does

[0:45:49] Voice 7: does um versus the re-election of executive committee are kind of separate and the re-election

[0:45:59] Voice 7: of executive committee is something that i'm i'm sort of correct me if i'm wrong but i'm kind of

[0:46:04] Voice 7: picking up and maybe it's worth of you have a conversation and picking up the idea or the

[0:46:08] Voice 7: notion that if governance committee was to recommend to trust council that they could

[0:46:20] Voice 7: could politely thank the current executive committee

[0:46:26] Voice 7: for the hard work that they've done thus far.

[0:46:31] Voice 7: And would they please step down

[0:46:35] Voice 7: and please feel free to run again

[0:46:39] Voice 7: and give the trust council the chance

[0:46:42] Voice 7: to reelect a new executive committee?

[0:46:46] Voice 7: Isn't that something that legally could be done

[0:46:48] Voice 7: without the legislation change?

[0:46:50] Voice 7: I'm kind of picking that up

[0:46:51] Voice 7: from some of the comments I've heard.

[0:46:52] Voice 7: I could be wrong. But if that's the case, why wouldn't we consider that? And then we could have the broader conversation with Trust Council, you know, because it will take much longer to do the delegating of what EC gets to do, again, versus the re-election of executive committee. It seems like it could be, you know, very cut and dry and done in March. I'd love to hear some thoughts on that idea. Thank you.

[0:47:19] Voice 7: I

[0:47:19] Voice 15: heard Trustee Luckham say something in terms of how there wasn't that trigger clause. And it may be part of the two legal opinions that we've had mentioned, and we need to look at those. And I'm not sure that it's quick and easy and cut and dried.

[0:47:37] Voice 15: just to

[0:47:39] Voice 7: follow up if if if vc stepped down like any other committee somebody else has to be elected

[0:47:46] Voice 7: into the position it's that simple so if if again governance committee recommended this to trust

[0:47:52] Voice 7: council and let them decide whether they want to do that or not but just throw it out there

[0:47:56] Voice 7: and it does seem that i maybe i'm wrong but i i don't think i i don't think i am anyways thank

[0:48:06] Voice 7: Thank you.

[0:48:08] Voice 15: Well, that's a whole other issue, getting this committee to agree to something like that.

[0:48:11] Voice 15: But that's not on our agenda today.

[0:48:14] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:48:17] Voice 11: Yeah, I want to follow up on Trustee Stanford's point, because I think she's made an important, crucial, practical point for how we get through this document and how we proceed today.

[0:48:30] Voice 11: There's so much in that governance report.

[0:48:32] Voice 11: There's so many issues in the memo that have to be addressed.

[0:48:36] Voice 11: rest. It's very easy for us to get drawn into the weeds about each one of them. And to a certain

[0:48:44] Voice 11: extent, we have to do that. But in that process, I mean, as you pointed out, Chair, what we're

[0:48:51] Voice 11: trying to do now is create a framework for a discussion for Trust Council. So as we go through

[0:48:59] Voice 11: this today, we need to reach agreement on how each of these recommendations should be framed

[0:49:04] Voice 11: for discussion we need a process somehow like today for staff as as we you know to collect

[0:49:12] Voice 11: those agreements or those points that we reach consensus on so that at the conclusion of today

[0:49:18] Voice 11: staff can go off and sort of amend the memo accordingly uh to reflect those changes um

[0:49:24] Voice 11: uh i you know follow you know related to what trustee paris was saying at this stage i think

[0:49:30] Voice 11: it's open for governance committee to state options. For example, the point I made before

[0:49:38] Voice 11: about how the interim election issue is far from clear, and it's not true that the Trust Council

[0:49:48] Voice 11: has control over timing. I think that is just a clarification that has to be made, that has to be

[0:49:53] Voice 11: put out there, but it's also the kind of options that Trustee Harris is talking about. Something

[0:49:59] Voice 11: something like that can be presented as an option but without being endorsed uh but it's you know

[0:50:07] Voice 11: and that depends on the committee but um the important thing is we need to collect this

[0:50:12] Voice 11: information so uh chair i would like us to sort of perhaps if we could proceed in this fashion that

[0:50:18] Voice 11: as we discuss each of these recommendations then you know take a pause see where there's you know

[0:50:23] Voice 11: know perhaps by consent see where there's agreement and then you know staff can then

[0:50:28] Voice 11: staff will then know that those are changes that need to be made or something along those lines

[0:50:33] Voice 11: thanks we

[0:50:36] Voice 15: have at the very end of our agenda you'll see that our next meeting is scheduled

[0:50:39] Voice 15: for april the 7th so if we were to have a committee of the whole meeting it would likely

[0:50:44] Voice 15: be in may once we've gone through all of the policy um committee of the whole meeting so

[0:50:49] Voice 15: So we do have another meeting before the Committee of the Whole.

[0:50:53] Voice 15: So we would, I think, be pulling a lot of this together and come back and figure out how we're going to, given more background material, how we're going to approach this at the Committee of the Whole.

[0:51:04] Voice 15: But it is blossoming.

[0:51:07] Voice 15: Trustee Harris.

[0:51:10] Voice 7: Thank you, Chair Getty.

[0:51:12] Voice 7: I'm just a little confused.

[0:51:14] Voice 7: You said something along the lines of what I was talking about wasn't on the agenda.

[0:51:18] Voice 7: Is that not exactly what we're talking about right now in this recommendation?

[0:51:23] Voice 7: Yes,

[0:51:24] Voice 15: but you said

[0:51:24] Voice 7: if governance

[0:51:25] Voice 15: committee could make a recommendation to the trust council to have, you know, some sort of a resignation of all of the trust, sorry, executive committee so that it could be, that's an option that, you know,

[0:51:46] Voice 15: if you're suggesting that this committee discuss that and come to some sort of a consensus

[0:51:50] Voice 15: agreement that that's a whole other discussion in addition to what we've got here in terms of these

[0:51:56] Voice 15: governance review recommendations i

[0:52:00] Voice 7: guess i apologize i see it somewhat differently i see

[0:52:04] Voice 7: it as that's exactly what we're talking about right now and that could be wrapped into this

[0:52:07] Voice 7: into recommendation one so thank you okay

[0:52:10] Voice 15: okay so um i don't see any other hands up we've got

[0:52:20] Voice 15: got this recommendation um trust council requests staff to work with executive committee to develop

[0:52:26] Voice 15: a process of election of the executive committee in 26 that considers recommendation one of the 22

[0:52:32] Voice 15: governance review um what i'm hearing is that um we're not ready to vote on this one

[0:52:41] Voice 15: um that or agreed with i'm thinking that we need to have um more input from both trust

[0:52:53] Voice 15: council and possibly governance committee, maybe some of the other committees, and we

[0:52:58] Voice 15: need some of this background material.

[0:53:00] Voice 15: So I'm thinking that this one gets put over to our April 7th meeting with all of that

[0:53:11] Voice 15: additional material and that we have some background with respect to what Trustee Stanford

[0:53:19] Voice 15: was talking about, how we can present this and how we can manage discussion on this so

[0:53:24] Voice 15: so that it doesn't spin out.

[0:53:28] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick?

[0:53:32] Trustee Patrick: Well, I would agree with it being a separate motion,

[0:53:36] Trustee Patrick: not trying to embed it into this issue,

[0:53:40] Trustee Patrick: but the related analysis of the delegated authority.

[0:53:45] Trustee Patrick: Do we want to identify that as a related item

[0:53:49] Trustee Patrick: through how to best deal with that?

[0:53:51] Trustee Patrick: I see Trustee Bernardo suddenly raising his hand,

[0:53:53] Trustee Patrick: so maybe his ideas are there.

[0:53:58] Voice 15: Trustee Stamford?

[0:54:01] Trustee Stamford: If Trustee Bernardo's comments are related to what Trustee Patrick mentioned, he should go first.

[0:54:08] Voice 11: Trustee Bernardo.

[0:54:10] Voice 11: Thank you for that, Trustee Sanford.

[0:54:12] Voice 11: It is related to it.

[0:54:15] Voice 11: I have to voice a disagreement here with the chair, you know, suggesting that we, you know, defer this.

[0:54:24] Voice 11: There's been an awful lot of deferring of these things.

[0:54:27] Voice 11: We need to make decisions about things.

[0:54:29] Voice 11: And I disagree also with Trustee Patrick.

[0:54:32] Voice 11: I don't think it's necessary to have a separate resolution about this.

[0:54:36] Voice 11: I mean, what's come out of or a separate mechanism, from what I've heard, it sounds like to me there is consensus that both the policy, internal policy component and the legislative aspects need to be looked at.

[0:54:53] Voice 11: And the point I made before, you know, was I actually think governance committee should do that.

[0:55:00] Voice 11: So my suggestion would be that we amend this recommendation to read something along the lines of trust council request staff to work, as I mentioned before, governance committee.

[0:55:11] Voice 11: committee to review and potentially revise the process for election of the executive

[0:55:25] Voice 11: committee, but also to review the policies that delegate authority to the executive committee.

[0:55:33] Voice 11: Because the two can't really be separated.

[0:55:35] Voice 11: I mean, the whole point of the election issue was, was, you know, is to the functionality of the executive committee and the relationship of the trustees with the executive committee.

[0:55:44] Voice 11: So it seems to me that it's perfectly reasonable to sort of just change this recommendation, assign the work to governance committee to sort of rethink this business.

[0:55:56] Voice 11: and then when we have the committee of the whole and we actually have this discussion of this

[0:56:00] Voice 11: recommendation that's when we can have the wider you know we can have the wider ranging discussion

[0:56:05] Voice 11: about what the legislation says what the boundaries are and that kind of stuff and

[0:56:11] Voice 11: together with amending the recommendation you know i would want staff to sort of uh

[0:56:16] Voice 11: identify uh put in a discussion about what the actual legislative framework is and how it

[0:56:20] Voice 11: contrasts with with um what the government report says and i think that would be sufficient to frame

[0:56:28] Voice 11: that discussion for that recommendation i'm

[0:56:35] Voice 15: not sure if that's a criticism about deferring too

[0:56:37] Voice 15: many things but it's like eating the elephant and trying to figure out how many bite-sized pieces

[0:56:42] Voice 15: there are and we you know this is the first recommendation of 15 so anyway trustee stamford

[0:56:48] Voice 15: Yeah,

[0:56:50] Trustee Stamford: thank you, Chair. I think we keep getting caught up in the actual pros and cons, which is a different point. We're not ready for that yet. So if we can just clarify how we move forward on the recommendations rather than the merits of the recommendations, it's the process that we're interested in.

[0:57:12] Trustee Stamford: And I think, yes, adding in the second recommendation that it also include the delegated authorities and detail that out so everyone's clear that that can be part of this.

[0:57:26] Trustee Stamford: And certainly if the governance committee has the bandwidth to take this on, I keep going back to the underlying tension that I keep feeling at Trust Council as a whole, that this is a question of trust.

[0:57:42] Trustee Stamford: and the executive committee's trust level with the council.

[0:57:48] Trustee Stamford: So if that helps to offset it to the governance committee, I guess,

[0:57:56] Trustee Stamford: but I don't know what the practicalities of actually managing that workload is.

[0:58:01] Trustee Stamford: But I'm certainly in favor of two recommendations coming out of this

[0:58:06] Trustee Stamford: and how we provide the background information

[0:58:09] Trustee Stamford: information to actually talk about its merits later on

[0:58:14] Voice 15: christy harris i

[0:58:19] Voice 7: i'm in support of not

[0:58:20] Voice 7: deferring um i'm in agreement that um you know we only have so much time and we do have the

[0:58:30] Voice 7: capability of

[0:58:32] Voice 15: dealing with this

[0:58:33] Voice 7: sooner um do you have a recommendation yeah well i guess the

[0:58:37] Voice 7: recommendation is not to defer um and something along the lines of trustee bernardo was saying

[0:58:43] Voice 7: saying about how we would the governance committee um would work with staff to um put something

[0:58:50] Voice 7: together to bring you know asap to whichever meeting that will be of trust council if it's

[0:58:57] Voice 7: a cow or trust council mr

[0:59:02] Voice 15: bernardo do you have a recommendation for this first one i do actually

[0:59:08] Voice 11: because as we're discussing it i thought i could frame you know i i really don't want to proceed

[0:59:14] Voice 11: I mean, we'll proceed in whatever way that works, but I always find it, frankly, tedious, the idea that we have to, you know, at every step of the way, you have to have a resolution, all that kind of stuff.

[0:59:26] Voice 11: But I guess that's the way it works, but if we could proceed by consent, if possible.

[0:59:30] Voice 11: But I would suggest that we amend this recommendation to read as follows, that Trust Council request staff to work with Governance Committee to revise the process, et cetera, et cetera.

[0:59:45] Voice 11: develop

[0:59:45] Voice 15: a process of election

[0:59:47] Voice 15: of the executive committee

[0:59:49] Voice 11: well well done

[0:59:52] Voice 11: that recommendation

[0:59:53] Voice 11: yeah that's what I was getting at

[0:59:56] Voice 11: the way that's written

[0:59:57] Voice 11: me again

[1:00:00] Voice 11: like i i see that um oh somebody has helpfully uh thank you digested uh the gibberish that's

[1:00:09] Voice 11: coming out of my mouth and turned it actually into real english and that's that's exactly the

[1:00:12] Voice 11: concept i had in mind and so uh that's very

[1:00:15] Voice 11: helpful and i would be prepared to move that

[1:00:17] Voice 11: and in fact i moved that resolution as written

[1:00:20] Trustee Patrick: before it's seconded it needs a correction

[1:00:23] Trustee Patrick: Okay. I'm

[1:00:26] Trustee Patrick: sure it's brilliant, but also bylaws. So I think it's just a delegated authority

[1:00:35] Trustee Patrick: because it's bylaws and policies are both used to delegate authority, not just policies.

[1:00:40] Voice 11: Right. And you would have to delete forward delegation there.

[1:00:55] Voice 11: Right. Is that your motion?

[1:00:57] Voice 11: okay that's my i'll read it out looks right i moved the

[1:01:02] Voice 11: trust council request staff to work

[1:01:03] Voice 11: with governance committee to revise the process for election of the executive committee and review

[1:01:07] Voice 11: delegated authorities to the executive committee in consideration of recommendation one of the

[1:01:12] Voice 11: 2022 governance report all

[1:01:17] Voice 15: right seconder please trustee patrick all right any more discussion on

[1:01:23] Voice 15: the this motion all right um all those in favor if you could raise your hand please

[1:01:29] Voice 15: if possible in the electronically i

[1:01:38] Voice 1: see seven hands all

[1:01:41] Voice 15: right hands down any opposed

[1:01:48] Voice 15: trustee stamford your hand is still up i'm trying it's hard okay that's not opposed all right

[1:01:56] Voice 15: you know it's unanimous all

[1:01:58] Voice 15: right so that's carried all right

[1:02:01] Voice 11: and i would and with that

[1:02:03] Voice 11: in terms of trying to turn this into something that's very useful for the trustees um i i would

[1:02:09] Voice 11: I would hope we wouldn't need a resolution for this, and perhaps we should hear from Director Marler about this, but I think it would be helpful to have a very brief discussion of a few sentences in the kind of supporting information of this that reproduces Section 20 of the Act and explains what that means.

[1:02:34] Voice 11: As soon as practical means, we have no choice. There has to be an election right away. That's not negotiable.

[1:02:40] Voice 11: You know, just just so that's clear.

[1:02:44] Voice 15: Well, I think for our next meeting, we need to see those two legal opinions.

[1:02:50] Voice 15: Director Marler.

[1:02:51] Voice 1: Yeah, I was going to say that that direction, that resolution is enough to ensure that we cover all of that off when we come back.

[1:03:00] Voice 11: OK, that's great. Thank you.

[1:03:02] Voice 15: But I heard Trustee Middleton say before that he had a different opinion.

[1:03:06] Voice 15: So I think that that's going to come up again.

[1:03:10] Voice 15: We need to sort that out.

[1:03:11] Voice 15: that might be an in-camera but we'll sort that out too trustee middleton sorry yeah

[1:03:17] Voice 2: it's uh it

[1:03:18] Voice 2: doesn't disagree with the essence of what trustee baranda says but it has to do with the specific

[1:03:23] Voice 2: timing of the first election the the opinion concurs that the fact that there cannot be a

[1:03:29] Voice 2: subsequent election but it disagrees with the fact that the first election has to be at the

[1:03:35] Voice 2: the first meeting and that's quotes various uh bits of provincial legislation without getting

[1:03:42] Voice 15: into the details we need that opinion right yeah

[1:03:45] Voice 2: so that that would be that's actually my question

[1:03:48] Voice 2: how chair at your pleasure how would you like to receive it um if you want to treat it in camera

[1:03:54] Voice 2: i'm happy with that i don't i don't require that but if you if you would wish to do so i'm happy

[1:04:00] Voice 2: to transmit it in that way does it refer

[1:04:03] Voice 15: to the earlier uh legal opinion that was received by

[1:04:06] Voice 15: council as um in refuting it and because i believe that's still in camera i

[1:04:14] Voice 2: i don't believe it does

[1:04:15] Voice 2: because i wasn't at liberty to you

[1:04:17] Voice 15: have to double check if you could get um director marler's

[1:04:21] Voice 15: opinion on that whether it needs to be in camera that would be helpful trustee bernardo oh sorry

[1:04:27] Voice 15: Sorry, can I do CAO Groney first?

[1:04:31] Voice 13: Go ahead.

[1:04:35] Voice 13: Thank you.

[1:04:36] Voice 14: Maybe I'll just get Director Marler to confirm.

[1:04:38] Voice 14: But I think, Director Marler, is it safe to say that when each of these recommendations come forward,

[1:04:45] Voice 14: both back to this committee, but then to committee as a whole,

[1:04:48] Voice 14: they would be supported with a supporting brief to provide some of that background contents?

[1:04:53] Voice 14: And that would, so that I think we can just operate on the assumption that each of these recommendations

[1:04:58] Voice 14: recommendations that you bring forward today will be supported with a briefing to provide the

[1:05:03] Voice 14: necessary context reference to legal opinion etc and legislation where appropriate thanks

[1:05:08] Voice 14: yeah

[1:05:09] Voice 1: i'd concur the ceo that's exactly the way i would approach it yeah

[1:05:14] Voice 15: christy bernardo yeah i'm

[1:05:17] Voice 11: sorry to be such a pest about these things but um but not having seen the legal opinion from

[1:05:24] Voice 11: what the you know references that trustee middleton may you know probably agree with it but

[1:05:30] Voice 11: I have reservations and real uncertainty about the propriety of any body of the trust relying on a private legal opinion from any source, whether it's from the public or privately obtained by a trustee.

[1:05:51] Voice 11: um i don't have complete thoughts about that but it's uh my experience certainly has been

[1:05:59] Voice 11: you know no body risk put it this way if a if a body is going to rely on legal opinion it gets

[1:06:05] Voice 11: its own legal advice and um because the advice you get depends on the instructions you give

[1:06:12] Voice 11: and it's complicated so before anything like incorporating trustee middleton's the legal

[1:06:20] Voice 11: opinion trustee middleton obtained into the materials i think we need to answer that question

[1:06:25] Voice 11: about the propriety of doing that because i think just as an institutional issue that um

[1:06:29] Voice 11: to me that carries a lot of appears to carry a lot of risks but i i really am not certain about it

[1:06:35] Voice 11: it

[1:06:37] Voice 15: seems to me that it's getting unnecessarily complicated so it's a getting a legal opinion

[1:06:42] Voice 15: about a legal opinion that's about a legal opinion and um it could simply be um whether

[1:06:49] Voice 15: or not we rely on it it could be a matter of weight so uh without knowing what the instructions

[1:06:55] Voice 15: are oh so director marler there's that physical hand again that's hard to see

[1:07:00] Voice 1: yeah um yeah the

[1:07:04] Voice 1: the opinions that you would rely on would be from young anderson that's our legal that we have a

[1:07:10] Voice 1: contract and um we work with them if there is an opinion that a trustee or somebody from the public

[1:07:17] Voice 1: wants to share with us that's fine that can be received in open meeting if that person feels

[1:07:22] Voice 1: they want to waive the privilege to it but anything in there we would be subject to our

[1:07:27] Voice 1: lawyer's review of the opinion because sometimes it's the questions that you ask and how it's asked

[1:07:34] Voice 1: and there's some nuances that sometimes get missed and sometimes it's correct but it hasn't been

[1:07:40] Voice 1: presented quite in the right way so not saying that it would be discounted completely but I think

[1:07:46] Voice 1: you would be well within your right to consider it but you probably want to ask our law firm

[1:07:53] Voice 1: their opinion and see if they concur or not okay

[1:07:57] Voice 15: so before we go running off and spending money

[1:08:00] Voice 15: on another legal opinion let's have a look at it and see whether or not there's anything in there

[1:08:05] Voice 15: that we want to rely on and then we can decide whether or not we need to double check it fair

[1:08:11] Voice 15: Fair enough.

[1:08:13] Voice 11: Yeah.

[1:08:14] Voice 11: And the thing about it is we don't necessarily have to rely on it.

[1:08:16] Voice 11: It could just give us something to think about.

[1:08:19] Voice 11: Yeah, okay.

[1:08:20] Voice 11: But I really, the more I think about it, relying on an outside legal opinion arguably is kind of a fettering discretion sort of thing because somebody else's professional opinion, and that gets tricky.

[1:08:32] Voice 11: But, I mean, I don't think there's any harm in reading it and thinking about it, but I think we have to be careful in being clear.

[1:08:39] Voice 15: That's the

[1:08:39] Voice 15: stage that we're at at this point, right?

[1:08:41] Voice 15: Yeah.

[1:08:43] Voice 15: All right, so that was voted on in that pass.

[1:08:48] Voice 15: Okay, recommendation number two.

[1:08:53] Voice 15: So the number of committees and committee members, or sorry, committee mandates.

[1:09:02] Voice 15: So to start the discussion, I guess my comment is that the commentary on the recommendation,

[1:09:10] Voice 15: recommendation, well, first of all, the staff are recommending that the Trust Council not

[1:09:17] Voice 15: undertake any further work on this recommendation.

[1:09:21] Voice 15: So the consultants were suggesting that there be a comprehensive review of the committee

[1:09:28] Voice 15: structure with the idea of increasing the number of committees with mandates more focused

[1:09:32] Voice 15: on subjects.

[1:09:34] Voice 15: Frequent use should be made of subcommittees and ad hoc committees.

[1:09:37] Voice 15: committees. And the commentary was that the only way a 26-member council meeting relatively

[1:09:43] Voice 15: infrequently can govern effectively is through a robust committee system. So I'm feeling like I'm

[1:09:50] Voice 15: on too many committees. But, you know, there's trust council, executive committee, local trust

[1:09:57] Voice 15: committees, governance committee, all the different committees of the whole. And we've had,

[1:10:03] Voice 15: If you count this Friday's, we've had eight since May of last year, plus there's the Corporate Working Group, the Tiny House on Wheels Working Group, the Governance Committee Working Group,

[1:10:19] Voice 15: plus the CAO Hiring Committee that is continuing with respect to review material, plus the Financial Planning, what is that?

[1:10:30] Voice 15: um tp is the trust programs and uh regional planning and now the reconciliation and

[1:10:40] Voice 15: accessibility so i um i want that background to be considered too when we're talking about um

[1:10:49] Voice 15: this staff recommendation um anyway trustee patrick oh

[1:10:59] Trustee Patrick: i concur trustee getty um

[1:11:02] Trustee Patrick: Yeah, again, like I said, the recommendations are grouped in an unusual way, and I think it's our opportunity based on our experience and knowledge and what we've seen to group them in other ways, because there were a number of recommendations, recommendations two and three, which are recommended not to be addressed, which actually are related to this one, and I think the committee issue is a bigger committee.

[1:11:26] Trustee Patrick: The whole structure, you know, why have them? You know, it's not necessarily the structure, but the committees need to be structured to our strategic plan every term to enable the work that the Trust Council has expressed as its priorities.

[1:11:40] Trustee Patrick: So I think that and then how it does its work. And I know today are the terms of reference for the Regional Planning Committee, which I chair, is written in a way that sounds like we've been given authority to make decisions when we're not. We're an advisory body.

[1:11:59] Trustee Patrick: body so there's you know just if the structure is left as is there's there's modifications that

[1:12:05] Trustee Patrick: need to be done to clean up the language and to make them true advisory bodies um and um and i

[1:12:13] Trustee Patrick: just think they're old they've been the same committees for i don't know how many years um

[1:12:17] Trustee Patrick: that they have we haven't really updated the structure of this committee being born um are

[1:12:23] Trustee Patrick: they the right committees are they doing the right things do they align with our strategic plan um

[1:12:28] Trustee Patrick: And then how they do their work, communicate their work, and all of that needs to be, I think, collectively looked at.

[1:12:38] Voice 15: So that's the second half of the last sentence of the recommendation.

[1:12:42] Voice 15: Could now focus on using these committees in an efficient way and may consider making amendments to council committee policy and procedures.

[1:12:51] Voice 15: Okay.

[1:12:54] Voice 15: Any other discussion?

[1:12:56] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo?

[1:12:57] Voice 15: know yeah

[1:12:58] Voice 11: i i see where staff is coming from because um if you look at the language in the

[1:13:02] Voice 11: governance report um uh to a lot i mean you know i'm sympathetic to where the staff is coming to

[1:13:09] Voice 11: some extent because it's in practical terms we seem to have already been going down this path

[1:13:17] Voice 11: of sort of um like you know uh creating new creating new committees and as the staff says

[1:13:24] Voice 11: as using the select committee system or approach rather.

[1:13:28] Voice 11: But when I hear what trustee Patrick is talking about

[1:13:34] Voice 11: is frankly a little deeper

[1:13:37] Voice 11: than what the governance report recommendation was.

[1:13:41] Voice 11: And I think that it's a point that should be taken seriously

[1:13:43] Voice 11: which is, what is the,

[1:13:48] Voice 11: given the nature of the policies that create

[1:13:53] Voice 11: these um committees and how old they are uh revisiting the purpose of the committees

[1:14:02] Voice 11: and what their mandates actually are um as she mentioned corporate planning uh and she's right

[1:14:10] Voice 11: to say that right now the committee is simply acting in advisory capacity they're not you know

[1:14:16] Voice 11: to the extent that they're working committees that generate work product that's that's just

[1:14:22] Voice 11: just on individual initiative, frankly.

[1:14:24] Voice 11: And so I think there's a question there about,

[1:14:28] Voice 11: and I don't know what the answer is to it,

[1:14:29] Voice 11: but I think there's a question there that's worth asking,

[1:14:31] Voice 11: which is what do we want these committees to do

[1:14:35] Voice 11: as opposed to what they're doing now?

[1:14:37] Voice 11: Maybe what they're doing now is fine,

[1:14:39] Voice 11: but maybe they should be doing something else.

[1:14:42] Voice 11: And related to the executive committee issue,

[1:14:46] Voice 11: anything, any advice at the moment

[1:14:49] Voice 11: a committee wishes to present to trust council is subject to executive committee discretion

[1:14:56] Voice 11: of whether or not it makes it to a trust council meeting again i don't have a position on this but

[1:15:03] Voice 11: i think it's a legitimate question to say that if a committee has a and a committee is a committee

[1:15:07] Voice 11: of trust council if a committee has a report to make or has an issue to raise that emerges out of

[1:15:15] Voice 11: its work properly it may well be that we should adopt a policy where as of it is a as a matter

[1:15:22] Voice 11: of course um they get onto the agenda there's there's no filtering because when you filter

[1:15:29] Voice 11: those things and i'm not saying there's any bad intentions there but uh it's it's an exercise in

[1:15:35] Voice 11: prioritization the executive committee is taking on about the issue as opposed to giving trust

[1:15:40] Voice 11: council the opportunity to decide whether or not it should be a priority to be addressed or not

[1:15:43] Voice 11: So, again, I want to be very clear. I don't have firm ideas or positions about this, but I can see that not so much following the recommendation as it's worded in the governance report, but drilling into the mandates and an examination of the purposes of these committees and the character of the advice they give.

[1:16:08] Voice 11: I could see that could be quite worthwhile and I could support that. Thank you.

[1:16:12] Voice 11: I

[1:16:14] Voice 15: think there's some overlap. I just am thinking that this recommendation should be, the title of it could be changed in terms of number of committees, because recommendation number four is specific to mandates.

[1:16:27] Voice 15: mandates. So I think that what I'm hearing is, and what I would like to suggest, is that Trust

[1:16:41] Voice 15: Council not undertake any further work on recommendation number two, and possibly similar

[1:16:50] Voice 15: in terms of recommendation number three, but we'll get to that in a moment. But except that the

[1:16:57] Voice 15: staff recommendation

[1:16:59] Voice 15: for a governance committee to make

[1:17:01] Voice 15: to committee of the whole.

[1:17:08] Voice 11: I think, by the way,

[1:17:09] Voice 11: I want to jump in right away

[1:17:10] Voice 11: and say thank you for that, Chair,

[1:17:11] Voice 11: because although I went through this

[1:17:14] Voice 11: in some detail,

[1:17:14] Voice 11: I completely lost track of the fact that

[1:17:17] Voice 11: there's a

[1:17:18] Voice 15: lot of them.

[1:17:19] Voice 11: Recommendation number four,

[1:17:20] Voice 11: which is kind of squarely addresses

[1:17:22] Voice 15: the

[1:17:23] Voice 11: kind of the point I was trying to make there.

[1:17:26] Voice 11: So, yeah, okay.

[1:17:29] Voice 11: That changes things a little bit for me.

[1:17:31] Voice 11: yeah i on that basis i could see yeah sure uh if if the purpose of the recommendation was just to

[1:17:38] Voice 11: narrowly look at the sort of number really uh uh like the i mean there is as you say there's

[1:17:45] Voice 11: overlap but if it's about really about the number of committees that we have that's actually been

[1:17:49] Voice 11: covered through practice and yeah we could probably do without it and

[1:17:54] Voice 15: i think that is a discussion

[1:17:55] Voice 15: that we need to have um certainly by you know in terms of uh i think the quorum that we're getting

[1:18:03] Voice 15: at the committees of the whole and uh the the workload of of trustees and it ties in with our

[1:18:10] Voice 15: compensation as well um you know my calendar's filled up with a whole bunch of committee of the

[1:18:15] Voice 15: whole plus reconciliation plus the cao hiring committee and that's just you know and i took on

[1:18:21] Voice 15: on trying to figure out the budget as well.

[1:18:25] Voice 15: So it's kind of overwhelming.

[1:18:29] Voice 15: You know, the executive committee has got local trust committees

[1:18:32] Voice 15: in their meetings as well.

[1:18:34] Voice 15: It's like it's becoming unmanageable.

[1:18:37] Voice 15: But, okay, I'm going to suggest that we change the title on this

[1:18:41] Voice 15: to simply number of committees

[1:18:43] Voice 15: and that we accept the first sentence of the recommendation.

[1:18:51] Voice 15: in terms of not undertake any further work anybody opposed to that second by

[1:18:59] Voice 15: trustee stamford trustee patrick well

[1:19:02] Trustee Patrick: again i mean for me sorry i lost my phone here

[1:19:07] Trustee Patrick: popped out of my ear my only issue is that it's the alignment i i don't i think number is irrelevant

[1:19:14] Trustee Patrick: um it's the alignment of the committee structure with the with the strategic plan of the

[1:19:20] Trustee Patrick: of the organization okay

[1:19:23] Voice 15: and that gets into recommendation four the mandate yeah

[1:19:28] Voice 13: right i

[1:19:31] Voice 15: think there's mention of that or it could be or

[1:19:37] Voice 11: it can be elaborated as part of recommendation

[1:19:39] Voice 11: four i mean we could

[1:19:40] Voice 11: make it clearer but i mean that's the direction there

[1:19:42] Voice 15: yeah and it also would

[1:19:43] Voice 15: come up possibly in the recommendation for the corporate planning um or number five the role of

[1:19:52] Voice 15: committees all right so this one um the number of committees no further work any more discussion on

[1:20:02] Voice 15: this all those in favor yes

[1:20:18] Voice 1: software just drop down to three five

[1:20:22] Voice 15: six six yeah

[1:20:24] Voice 15: okay and i think

[1:20:26] Voice 15: there's a chat that uh trustee middleton has had to step off for a few minutes all right all right

[1:20:33] Voice 15: so that would be no opposed so recommendation number three so the

[1:20:49] Voice 15: committee membership the governance review says while the number of

[1:20:55] Voice 15: committee should increase the number of trustees on committees could be reduced

[1:20:58] Voice 15: membership should strive for some regional balance and a match of trustees

[1:21:02] Voice 15: interests and expertise with committee mandates um their commentary is that all trustees should

[1:21:10] Voice 15: be a member of at least one committee and uh i'm not going to read all the rest out to you you can

[1:21:18] Voice 15: read it as well as i can but um is there any discussion on the recommendation here is that

[1:21:24] Voice 15: the council not undertake any further work on this recommendation um is there any discussion

[1:21:30] Voice 15: trustee peterson oh

[1:21:34] Voice 10: my apologies i forgot to take my hand down from the vote trustee stamford

[1:21:40] Voice 10: yeah

[1:21:43] Trustee Stamford: i think with with this one it when i first read this um it wasn't really recognizing the

[1:21:51] Trustee Stamford: role of of how local trustees are elected and and um i mean we can discuss it and we can

[1:22:01] Trustee Stamford: and look for best practices,

[1:22:04] Trustee Stamford: but we really don't have a huge amount of influence

[1:22:06] Trustee Stamford: on who actually, what kind of skills come to the table.

[1:22:12] Trustee Stamford: So, you know, I found this one not as high of priority.

[1:22:17] Trustee Stamford: I mean, it's important,

[1:22:18] Trustee Stamford: but we just don't have as much influence

[1:22:20] Trustee Stamford: as to how to deal with who actually makes it

[1:22:24] Trustee Stamford: to the trust council.

[1:22:28] Voice 15: Kirsty Patrick?

[1:22:31] Trustee Patrick: Well, I think there is some merit.

[1:22:32] Trustee Patrick: I mean, if a committee has been struck to do something

[1:22:34] Trustee Patrick: and we don't have the skills at the table

[1:22:36] Trustee Patrick: or the skills didn't come forward

[1:22:38] Trustee Patrick: through the Local Government Act,

[1:22:40] Trustee Patrick: if committees would apply to the Islands Trust,

[1:22:45] Trustee Patrick: you can bring in external expertise to fill those gaps

[1:22:51] Trustee Patrick: so the committee functions completely.

[1:22:53] Trustee Patrick: So there is a broader opportunities

[1:22:56] Trustee Patrick: if the legislative applied to,

[1:23:00] Trustee Patrick: and we assume we act under it.

[1:23:02] Trustee Patrick: So we

[1:23:05] Voice 15: could make the committees

[1:23:06] Trustee Patrick: be more structured.

[1:23:07] Voice 15: That was included in the terms of reference for the governance committee that we had the power to bring in.

[1:23:14] Voice 15: I'm not sure if that's on all of the committees or terms of reference.

[1:23:17] Voice 15: And maybe that's the additional, if we're looking at the mandates, I'll just make a note.

[1:23:31] Voice 15: Sorry, Trustee Harris?

[1:23:36] Voice 7: Yeah, no need to apologize.

[1:23:38] Voice 7: thank you i seem to remember a legal opinion regarding committees so is that something that

[1:23:48] Voice 7: would need to be delved into i don't know if now is the appropriate time possibly it is um

[1:23:55] Voice 7: in an in-camera um discussion because that's something that hasn't really been i don't think

[1:24:04] Voice 15: there was

[1:24:04] Voice 7: any real follow-through and that could have an effect on exactly what we're talking about

[1:24:08] Voice 7: here as far as um committees go

[1:24:10] Voice 15: okay i don't remember it christy bernardo yeah

[1:24:16] Voice 11: um when i

[1:24:19] Voice 11: first read the jordan's report one of the issues i had was um some of the recommendations were

[1:24:26] Voice 11: clear enough and then someone experienced you know help confirm okay i can see what people

[1:24:32] Voice 11: are talking about here and i can see what the issue and the problem is uh but uh on first

[1:24:38] Voice 11: reading I mean there are some that actually just stuck out as like a little

[1:24:42] Voice 11: bewildering that wasn't quite clear what they're getting at and some of the

[1:24:45] Voice 11: wording seemed a little obscure and with some experience now when I look at the

[1:24:52] Voice 11: the reading of this a recommendation for or the original governance report

[1:25:00] Voice 11: language about it there's something indirect going on here and what I

[1:25:07] Voice 11: specifically I have and you know which I can find a

[1:25:11] Voice 11: little annoying they could

[1:25:12] Voice 1: It could

[1:25:12] Voice 11: have just been directed by it.

[1:25:13] Voice 11: The second paragraph, when you look at, say, page 19 at the top, it says, second paragraph

[1:25:18] Voice 11: of the report commentary, all committee memberships should be subject to trust council approval.

[1:25:24] Voice 11: Well, what they're really saying there is that they don't want, you know, the recommendations

[1:25:27] Voice 11: that chair ought not to be making those appointments.

[1:25:32] Voice 11: So that's at least one prominent issue.

[1:25:35] Voice 11: I don't know how to think about that, but I mean, we need to grasp what they're actually

[1:25:42] Voice 11: saying here before we decide on this.

[1:25:44] Voice 11: That's a big question. So I don't know how to deal with that one. But in any event, it seems to me that that's what they're really getting at. And certainly when I was chairing financial planning committee, it's a huge committee. There's a lot of bodies on it.

[1:26:00] Voice 11: and uh that um frankly in terms of just operating the committee it's overloaded with just simply

[1:26:09] Voice 11: too many bodies um and the point they're making here is financial planning the decisions financial

[1:26:16] Voice 11: planning committee is frankly dominated by the executive committee and the people it's appointed

[1:26:20] Voice 11: to chair and uh you can you know i don't have to elaborate what the report is implying in here

[1:26:30] Voice 11: which is that the executive committee is in a position basically for people in executive committee are in a position by virtue of the appointment function through the chair to manage outcomes on financial planning committee.

[1:26:45] Voice 11: And whether that's true or not is a separate question that that's where this is coming from.

[1:26:52] Voice 11: So that's it seems to me that's the issue that has to be discussed here.

[1:26:59] Voice 11: uh and uh i just wanted to raise that as a point of clarity uh because maybe that is something

[1:27:08] Voice 11: that we should be talking about uh and um and unlike the other one this one does not naturally

[1:27:16] Voice 11: roll into the mandate issue thanks so

[1:27:22] Voice 15: is that something that um we need to tackle right away

[1:27:30] Voice 15: Is that something and the second question would be is that something that possibly the corporate plan would help to alleviate to a certain extent in terms of setting priorities and you know so that in terms of the outcomes it's managed more by that that process as opposed to potentially a group of people that and it goes also to the question of the role and the function of the executive committee.

[1:27:59] Voice 15: and whether or not we elect people to the executive that have some balance.

[1:28:04] Voice 15: So it's complicated.

[1:28:06] Voice 15: But in terms of this recommendation, there's an issue there that needs to be discussed

[1:28:14] Voice 15: that might be teased out in some other ways, would be my thinking,

[1:28:20] Voice 15: and that we should just accept this recommendation without deleting it.

[1:28:25] Voice 15: But I don't think that working on this one is necessarily a priority.

[1:28:36] Voice 11: Well, if I may, the whole talk about priority I find difficult to manage because some of these things are so interrelated.

[1:28:46] Voice 15: Yeah.

[1:28:47] Voice 11: As you pointed out, the committee membership issue can't be separated from the role of the executive committee.

[1:28:52] Voice 11: That is definitely a priority that people want to look into.

[1:28:55] Voice 11: to and so uh they're all i don't see answering some of the or deep like dealing with these

[1:29:03] Voice 11: recommendations necessarily happening in a sequential fashion i think once we get like

[1:29:09] Voice 11: the big thing that was drilling into the executive committee's role uh it's gonna it's gonna touch

[1:29:14] Voice 11: in all of these different issues uh the virtue of dealing with them separately or at least

[1:29:21] Voice 11: identifying them separately is it confirms that we as part of that overall examination this

[1:29:28] Voice 11: this point at least will get looked at so you know the way i'm looking at it is maybe we could

[1:29:36] Voice 11: reword the recommend like again adjust what the recommendation from the report talks about narrow

[1:29:45] Voice 11: it make it more focused so it is simply addressing perhaps the membership issue

[1:29:50] Voice 11: uh and how membership is made and yeah through the question of representation uh and okay

[1:30:00] Voice 15: Fair enough. It seems to

[1:30:01] Voice 11: me that's a useful discussion for Trust Council to have.

[1:30:07] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick?

[1:30:10] Trustee Patrick: Do we have to have everything be a recommendation? Could some of our recommendations be a question?

[1:30:16] Trustee Patrick: We're asking if this is an issue to Trust Council or not, how membership is appointed, and is it a concern? Is it a priority?

[1:30:22] Trustee Patrick: you know so that we could actually pose a question to the committee of the whole rather

[1:30:27] Trustee Patrick: than just say we recommend this answer where we would like to know is this an issue

[1:30:31] Voice 13: that's fair

[1:30:33] Voice 13: that's fair

[1:30:36] Voice 7: trustee harris well i guess it depends on how one is to look at look at it but

[1:30:45] Voice 7: it could be deemed that yes this indeed is an issue um especially when we look at

[1:30:51] Voice 7: um the second paragraph of odell committee membership on being subject to trust council

[1:30:56] Voice 7: approval, that's a doozy. And we've had things just transpire recently where it's subject to

[1:31:03] Voice 7: or just trust counsel or executive committee or the executive committee chair of choosing.

[1:31:09] Voice 7: And so clearly it's something that I'm very much in support of this being delved into

[1:31:19] Voice 7: as a priority, just as our first recommendation.

[1:31:24] Voice 7: lucien trustee

[1:31:27] Voice 15: peterson there's

[1:31:31] Voice 10: an awful lot to um to consider and i think it's important to

[1:31:36] Voice 10: recognize um in response to trustee harris's comment that while the chair does appoint um

[1:31:45] Voice 10: uh trust council does um ultimately ratify uh the appointment in this case just so we don't get

[1:31:53] Voice 10: too sidetracked on that issue um but there there's a lot the whole the and i don't want to get deeply

[1:32:01] Voice 10: into the weeds but um as we consider for example the financial planning committee

[1:32:08] Voice 10: and look at the rationale behind the way uh it has been set up um i think one of the one of the

[1:32:17] Voice 10: things that needs to be considered is how, if we're going to restructure that in terms

[1:32:24] Voice 10: of executive committee membership being changed from what it currently is, then how do some

[1:32:36] Voice 10: of the functions that the executive committee is supposed to perform as in their role on

[1:32:46] Voice 10: on a financial planning committee,

[1:32:48] Voice 10: how does that get covered if we change the structure too?

[1:32:52] Voice 10: So there's a lot there.

[1:32:53] Voice 10: I don't think we have time today.

[1:32:57] Voice 10: I'll leave it there.

[1:33:00] Voice 15: Director Marler, you had your hand up.

[1:33:04] Voice 1: Yeah, thank you.

[1:33:06] Voice 1: Trustee Peterson actually said what I was going to say.

[1:33:10] Voice 1: Thank you.

[1:33:14] Voice 15: All right.

[1:33:15] Voice 15: So suggestions for recommendation on this one

[1:33:21] Voice 15: that Trustee Patrick had suggested

[1:33:26] Voice 15: that we phrase it as a question to Trust Council.

[1:33:31] Voice 15: Do we leave the recommendation as worded

[1:33:34] Voice 15: and then simply raise it in the presentation

[1:33:37] Voice 15: as a question and whether or not it's an issue

[1:33:42] Voice 15: and whether or not it's a concern?

[1:33:46] Voice 11: I like that suggestion

[1:33:48] Voice 11: because we don't necessarily have to have

[1:33:54] Voice 11: have great slots and decisions from here for everything

[1:33:57] Voice 12: it's

[1:33:58] Voice 11: a legitimate question so i think

[1:34:00] Voice 11: if we just changed it to say um our recommendation is that trust council consider uh whether any

[1:34:07] Voice 11: further work on recommendation number three is warranted or something like that all

[1:34:18] Voice 13: right and

[1:34:19] Voice 11: frankly just in in terms of just um the tone of the committee of the whole meeting i think you

[1:34:27] Voice 11: You know, following on some of the things I said before, I think quite a few trustees would welcome an open ended question presented to them.

[1:34:37] Voice 11: It's open ended, but specific so that, you know, they're not being told how to think that, you know, I think they would welcome that opportunity.

[1:34:45] Voice 11: All

[1:34:49] Voice 15: right. So amending the written recommendation so that it's Trust Council consider whether any further work on recommendation three of the governance report be considered. So I'll move that. Is there a seconder?

[1:35:09] Voice 15: I'll second.

[1:35:10] Voice 15: Oh, okay. Any more discussion?

[1:35:14] Voice 1: I missed the seconder.

[1:35:19] Voice 11: That's me.

[1:35:22] Voice 1: Trustee Bernardo?

[1:35:23] Voice 11: Correct.

[1:35:24] Voice 1: Thank you.

[1:35:28] Voice 1: Any more discussion?

[1:35:32] Voice 15: Sorry, Trustee Samford, you got bumped.

[1:35:38] Voice 15: Any more discussion?

[1:35:39] Voice 15: None?

[1:35:39] Voice 15: No hands raised?

[1:35:40] Voice 15: All right.

[1:35:40] Voice 15: All those in favor?

[1:35:50] Voice 15: That's everybody that's at this meeting.

[1:35:52] Voice 15: Okay.

[1:35:52] Voice 15: Thank you.

[1:35:53] Voice 15: That's unanimous.

[1:35:56] Voice 15: I don't know about you, but it's 11.30.

[1:36:01] Voice 15: It's an hour and a half.

[1:36:02] Voice 15: I've been drinking coffee all morning and I need a bathroom break.

[1:36:05] Voice 15: So can we take a brief, not long enough for lunch?

[1:36:08] Voice 15: I thought we'd go till noon.

[1:36:09] Voice 15: can we just take a short five or ten minutes maybe quarter two sure come back to this

[1:36:17] Voice 15: anybody opposed all right let's take a short five minute break come back at quarter two

[1:36:26] Voice 15: i think that's seven minute break i

[1:38:14] Voice 13: knew that would wake you up i knew that would wake you up

[1:38:22] Voice 13: little boy david i think your microphone's on we

[1:44:08] Voice 15: don't quite have quorum so we'll start the

[1:44:11] Voice 15: recording again. Now we do. Are we recording? We

[1:44:28] Voice 8: don't stop recording. We

[1:44:31] Voice 15: continue

[1:44:33] Voice 8: to live stream

[1:44:33] Voice 8: and record during breaks.

[1:44:38] Voice 15: All right. So welcome back. We've got a quorum back. So we're up to

[1:44:43] Voice 15: recommendation number four, committee mandates. Who would like to start discussion on this?

[1:44:49] Voice 15: Yes, we've got a recommendation that Trust Council requests staff to review how it approaches approving its committee work programs when they get presented at Trust Council.

[1:45:08] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick?

[1:45:10] Trustee Patrick: Oh, I'll dive in.

[1:45:12] Trustee Patrick: I spend a lot of time now watching very closely the CRD and its committee structure, how they report and how they work back and forth from each other.

[1:45:22] Trustee Patrick: And it works really well.

[1:45:23] Trustee Patrick: And yes, their board meeting meets monthly rather than quarterly as ours does. But there's a clear path from board asks committee for advice, committee goes off and works, committee recommends back to them.

[1:45:41] Trustee Patrick: committees do not even tell staff what to do they if they think that the advice they receive from

[1:45:47] Trustee Patrick: staff is not adequate and they have recommendations um or ask for more work um they go back to the

[1:45:55] Trustee Patrick: board and the board agrees with that or not to direct staff to do more work so it really is a

[1:46:01] Trustee Patrick: tight-fisted way of controlling staff resources if you think of it that way um but the board is

[1:46:08] Trustee Patrick: always, or the trust council in our case, would always know what the committees are doing.

[1:46:13] Trustee Patrick: I think, you know, this work program thing becomes almost artificial. It's like, you know,

[1:46:18] Trustee Patrick: the committee owns this work and they're off working on it and they may or may not be working

[1:46:22] Trustee Patrick: on it. It's not consistent. I'll take the housing needs assessment, for example, right now. There's

[1:46:27] Trustee Patrick: a survey out. Well, our committee didn't even review the terms of reference for the consultant,

[1:46:34] Trustee Patrick: yet it sits in our work program as a responsibility for the regional planning committee.

[1:46:37] Trustee Patrick: and there's a survey that's out in public that wasn't reviewed by the committee so is it our

[1:46:42] Trustee Patrick: work program or not and so i think there really needs to be a clear structure i think following

[1:46:49] Trustee Patrick: more like the regional districts do and have a clear path trust council asks for work to be done

[1:46:55] Trustee Patrick: and that work is returned so

[1:47:04] Voice 15: the recommendation then is to request staff to review and you're

[1:47:10] Voice 15: you're changing that to the process of developing a work plan?

[1:47:19] Voice 15: Well,

[1:47:19] Trustee Patrick: I'd say it's just clearly aligned with requests from the committees

[1:47:24] Trustee Patrick: to do what they're requested to do from the Trust Council.

[1:47:27] Trustee Patrick: Trustee Bernardo?

[1:47:31] Voice 11: Trustee Patrick will correct me, no doubt,

[1:47:34] Voice 11: but what I heard her saying is that she supports this recommendation

[1:47:36] Voice 11: that's written that the mandate should be looked at

[1:47:39] Voice 11: or the report recommendation that, you know,

[1:47:43] Voice 11: mandate committee mandate should reflect trust council priorities uh she agrees with that and

[1:47:50] Voice 11: agrees that with the recommendation that trust council requests staff to review that business

[1:47:56] Voice 11: of the work program because it's all it's all wrapped up in the mandate that's what it's all

[1:48:00] Voice 11: about um but whether she does or not i certainly that reflects my view but i think uh this one

[1:48:07] Voice 11: just on its face just makes sense for frankly for the reasons that trustee patrick put forward

[1:48:12] Voice 11: Yeah. And I like the way the staff has phrased this, which is, you know, when you're talking about the mandate, I do think that is a question of like how Trust Council itself manages committee work.

[1:48:31] Voice 11: And so I like the way the committee – I like the way the recommendation is phrased, and I would support it. Thank you.

[1:48:40] Voice 15: Any other discussion?

[1:48:42] Trustee Patrick: Sorry. Trustee Patrick?

[1:48:44] Trustee Patrick: Not to belabor the topic here, but how it works so well at the regional district level is because the agenda is structured easily.

[1:48:54] Trustee Patrick: There's a lot of things that are simply administrative or simple, and they're put in a consent agenda, so they don't take up any wind at the board table versus a real separation of the items that do need to be discussed.

[1:49:05] Trustee Patrick: And that's really what is the meat of how the committees work best.

[1:49:12] Voice 15: That's a big difference between Bonin municipality agendas, too, in terms of much more vigorous consent separation. But it's partly the way that we set up going through our work mandate.

[1:49:27] Voice 15: All right. The recommendation is that Trust Council request staff review how it approaches approving its committee work programs when presented.

[1:49:39] Voice 15: And the recommendation from the review was the committee mandate should reflect Trust Council's priorities in areas of greatest concern.

[1:49:49] Voice 15: And that puts us back into the earlier discussion that we had in terms of the corporate planning and how the mandates should tie in with that. Do we include that in some way in this recommendation, Trustee Patrick?

[1:50:05] Voice 15: Well,

[1:50:06] Trustee Patrick: I think it's how it approaches not just approving committee work plans, but how it establishes committee work plans is probably the better word, because then that links it to the priorities of Trust Council or a strategic plan.

[1:50:20] Voice 15: All right. So change approaches approving to establishing how it establishes its committee work programs?

[1:50:31] Trustee Patrick: Yes. How it establishes committee work programs.

[1:50:39] Voice 15: Any more discussion?

[1:50:41] Voice 15: on

[1:50:45] Voice 11: the editorial side that when presented at trust council could be removed because it's

[1:50:51] Voice 11: yeah

[1:50:52] Voice 15: that

[1:50:53] Voice 11: would do it yeah

[1:50:55] Voice 15: all right so uh moved by trustee patrick and seconded by

[1:51:07] Voice 15: trustee bernardo any more discussion all right all those in favor thank you that's unanimous

[1:51:24] Voice 15: picking up speed here.

[1:51:33] Voice 15: Recommendation number

[1:51:33] Voice 15: five. We're on page 20 of the agenda.

[1:51:35] Voice 15: The role of committees.

[1:51:37] Voice 15: The recommendation from the

[1:51:40] Voice 15: review is

[1:51:41] Voice 15: that recommendations

[1:51:44] Voice 15: from committees should be truly

[1:51:45] Voice 15: in quotation marks owned and championed

[1:51:48] Voice 15: by the committee.

[1:51:52] Voice 15: So

[1:51:53] Voice 15: what do we think about

[1:51:58] Voice 15: this report

[1:52:00] Voice 15: commentary on the recommendations and

[1:52:02] Voice 15: And the recommendation that we're going to be making, suggested that we make to Trust Council, staff to review how it approaches approving work programs.

[1:52:21] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo?

[1:52:22] Voice 11: Thank you.

[1:52:23] Voice 11: This is one of the recommendations in the report that I thought was very clear and made a lot of just simply practical operational sense to me.

[1:52:35] Voice 11: um you know uh the role i mean committees are going to be useful as advisory bodies they they

[1:52:44] Voice 11: need to they can't simply just be you know the first rubber stamp on the from what staff has

[1:52:53] Voice 11: developed that then moves on to trust council and you know not because staff wants a rubber stamp

[1:52:59] Voice 11: but because committee members stare at each other blankly and they sort of mumble a little of this

[1:53:03] Voice 11: a little of that, and the thing just moves on.

[1:53:08] Voice 11: When a committee truly owns an issue or owns a position and champions it,

[1:53:13] Voice 11: that's because they understand it.

[1:53:14] Voice 11: They've worked their way through it.

[1:53:16] Voice 11: And the report commentary, I think, is quite right,

[1:53:24] Voice 11: especially the last part, the importance of achieving consensus.

[1:53:29] Voice 11: As any advisory committee, I mean, I think we've all seen it.

[1:53:34] Voice 11: committees will take one position and then at the meeting we've got all sorts of people who

[1:53:39] Voice 11: were on the committee who were restless with the consensus that was reached in the first place they

[1:53:45] Voice 11: may even have voted for it but then they take another bite at the apple to undercut it at trust

[1:53:50] Voice 11: council i don't consider that that helpful um there's all sorts of things financial planning

[1:53:56] Voice 11: committee agreed to that i thought didn't make a lot of sense but in my view a committee member

[1:54:02] Voice 11: is not to be on a committee unless they're prepared to accept the decision of the committee

[1:54:09] Voice 11: and support it, even when it doesn't align necessarily with their immediate

[1:54:14] Voice 11: purposes or objectives, because that's how you give firm advice to the trust counsel. And

[1:54:23] Voice 11: so I would support this recommendation as, you know, I think it's useful. Although

[1:54:31] Voice 11: Although what I support is the examination of promotion of the idea that recommendations from committees ought to be championed, the language of the recommendation I know is exactly the same as the language for Recommendation 4, so I'm a little uncertain as to whether that's sufficient. Thank you.

[1:54:54] Voice 11: Right.

[1:54:59] Voice 15: I wondered if there was a typo in terms of it being a complete copy.

[1:55:11] Voice 15: I take a slightly different view, I think, in terms of the aim is always to provide a recommendation that will shape the debate at Trust Council in such a manner as to focus quickly on what is truly important and possibly contentious.

[1:55:27] Voice 15: So that doesn't necessarily mean to me that there needs to be consensus. If there isn't consensus at the committee level, then that is something that can be brought to the attention of Trust Council and dealt with in a way that helps to focus what the issues of the debate are.

[1:55:52] Voice 15: are. So I think that, you know, while we're all trying to achieve consensus and come to,

[1:56:00] Voice 15: and once the final vote is in, then, you know, we all have to live with that. But

[1:56:06] Voice 15: I think that if the committees do take the first run at an issue and present both sides of the

[1:56:16] Voice 15: the debate that is what will help uh council focus so that we end up with um you know as full

[1:56:24] Voice 15: of debate as possible before we actually do a final vote see two hands up trustee harris thank

[1:56:33] Voice 7: you so you know i've just heard kind of two sides to that story um or not story whatever you want

[1:56:42] Voice 7: to call it um you know from trustee bernardo and and you chair getty and and and i understand both

[1:56:48] Voice 7: I kind of struggle with that.

[1:56:51] Voice 7: I get the fact that if the committee agrees on something, you know, it ought to be brought to trust council.

[1:57:00] Voice 7: So trust, you know, and I hear this talk about the contentious, you know, possibly there's some contentiousness to some of these things.

[1:57:08] Voice 7: But to present to trust counsel that the committee didn't agree completely, that seems counterproductive in a way.

[1:57:20] Voice 7: I'm just thinking out loud here.

[1:57:22] Voice 7: I'm not trying to, you know, attack anybody.

[1:57:25] Voice 7: But it's like, it honestly doesn't seem, it seems counterproductive.

[1:57:33] Voice 7: because the committee has agreed to something even though it wasn't unanimous is it fair to

[1:57:42] Voice 7: present the to trust council though well we didn't actually agree and it you know completely i i don't

[1:57:48] Voice 7: know i guess you could say either keep it simple and say there's a unanimous a unanimous decision

[1:57:53] Voice 7: on such a topic and that would leave it open if it wasn't unanimous for trust council to understand

[1:58:01] Voice 7: Well, maybe somebody, you know, it wasn't unanimous, but, but for somebody from the

[1:58:06] Voice 7: committee to then argue against it at trust council, I, I understand where trust was coming

[1:58:12] Voice 7: from with that.

[1:58:13] Voice 7: And, um, yeah, that, that's a really good, great question.

[1:58:17] Voice 7: I think that needs to be delved into, um, anyway,

[1:58:23] Voice 15: Christy Patrick.

[1:58:25] Trustee Patrick: Yeah.

[1:58:26] Trustee Patrick: Again, I think the wording of the recommendation, um, is, is it's not again about work programs

[1:58:32] Trustee Patrick: my experience on chair at regional planning committee since the september meeting we've been

[1:58:38] Trustee Patrick: really spending more time paying attention to structuring what our ask of trust council is

[1:58:46] Trustee Patrick: so it's making sure that we aren't responding to pressure or time or challenges to get something

[1:58:54] Trustee Patrick: to meet a schedule that it really is ready to go and we're being clear on what our recommendation

[1:58:59] Trustee Patrick: is. So we're trying hard to do that. It isn't easy because recommendations aren't coming to

[1:59:06] Trustee Patrick: us in that structure. So I think there is room to really evaluate, and this is probably more,

[1:59:12] Trustee Patrick: I don't know what other recommendation that was like, but how, you know, I think there is

[1:59:19] Trustee Patrick: worthy review of how recommendations are structured, developed and structured,

[1:59:25] Trustee Patrick: and time to go back to trust counsel so that it doesn't help if you're you have really good solid

[1:59:31] Trustee Patrick: work and you're now going into like the march um trust counsel agenda package that's dominated by

[1:59:39] Trustee Patrick: budget and you're hoping to have a meaty conversation on something that your committee

[1:59:43] Trustee Patrick: has been working on bad timing so it's it all has to be thought out a bit more carefully

[1:59:51] Trustee Patrick: structured in time so that the recommendations are landing on agendas if there is expectation

[1:59:58] Trustee Patrick: that it is a meaty topic.

[2:00:00] Trustee Patrick: that needs a great deal of discussion versus just a oh it's an administrative type change to a

[2:00:05] Trustee Patrick: policy mr bernardo right

[2:00:13] Voice 13: uh i think um

[2:00:15] Voice 11: subject to hearing from director marler uh i don't think

[2:00:20] Voice 11: the recommendation is worded uh captures the the recommendation um intent as put in the

[2:00:31] Voice 11: the governance report. And I'm

[2:00:33] Voice 13: going to make a

[2:00:33] Voice 11: motion for discussion and see how that goes. But

[2:00:37] Voice 11: I move that the governance and committee recommendation with respect to item five

[2:00:44] Voice 11: here be amended or to read that Trust Council requests staff to review how committees present

[2:00:55] Voice 11: and support their advice to trust counsel and the timing of their

[2:01:03] Voice 11: presentations the

[2:01:32] Voice 15: presentations to trust counsel yes

[2:01:35] Voice 11: that's yeah then that would

[2:01:36] Voice 11: be good yeah thank you all

[2:01:46] Voice 15: right do we have a seconder is it

[2:01:51] Trustee Patrick: I guess advice recommendations or just well

[2:01:56] Voice 11: a recommendation is advice yeah

[2:01:58] Trustee Patrick: Yeah.

[2:02:01] Voice 15: Trustee Peterson.

[2:02:04] Voice 10: Oh, sorry, just seconding.

[2:02:07] Voice 15: Oh, thanks.

[2:02:10] Voice 15: All right.

[2:02:12] Voice 15: Any discussion on this?

[2:02:22] Voice 15: What are we asking staff to do?

[2:02:29] Voice 11: Well, I think that's, that's, that's, it's framed by the report commentary.

[2:02:37] Voice 12: Okay.

[2:02:37] Voice 12: All right.

[2:02:46] Voice 15: Any more discussion?

[2:02:47] Voice 15: Got enough detail in the recommendation?

[2:02:51] Voice 15: recommendation. We're going to have to explain this one, I think, to Trust Council, the committee

[2:02:58] Voice 15: of the whole, what we mean, I think. We can do that. Yep.

[2:03:04] Voice 15: All right. Let's have a vote. All those

[2:03:06] Voice 15: in favor? That's all seven of us. Okay. Another unanimous. We're almost halfway through. Number

[2:03:25] Voice 15: Number six. This goes into a new topic, Trust Council support.

[2:03:33] Voice 15: Recommendation six is helping trustees understand their role.

[2:03:42] Voice 15: So this is the difference between local issues and the federation.

[2:03:50] Voice 15: So the recommendation from here is that Trust Council requests staff to work with executive committee

[2:03:59] Voice 15: to develop communication materials in advance of the 26th election

[2:04:07] Voice 15: on the dual roles of trustees.

[2:04:10] Voice 15: I put a note in here in terms of adding not just communications prior to an election,

[2:04:18] Voice 15: but also ongoing in-house education.

[2:04:23] Voice 15: I think some of what we've had for our ongoing education is relevant to this,

[2:04:30] Voice 15: or could be.

[2:04:36] Voice 15: The other question is, just how workable is this?

[2:04:43] Voice 15: When do we know who's coming up for election?

[2:04:46] Voice 15: As soon as the time opens for election,

[2:04:51] Voice 15: there's some people that must choose at the very end, last minute.

[2:04:57] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick, oh, sorry.

[2:04:58] Voice 15: Thank you.

[2:04:58] Voice 15: Director Marler.

[2:05:01] Voice 1: Sorry.

[2:05:02] Voice 1: Yeah, just to answer your question.

[2:05:04] Voice 1: Once the election has taken place, we know who the trustees are. One of the first things we can

[2:05:09] Voice 1: send out is a package of information about the executive committee, the role of the chairs,

[2:05:16] Voice 1: the role of trustees. So we can send that out as soon as we know there's going to be an election.

[2:05:23] Voice 1: We can have all that information ready, so anybody who's interested

[2:05:27] Voice 1: can pick it up on our website or call us and receive that information.

[2:05:33] Voice 1: And then they can use that to help them decide if they want to run or not.

[2:05:38] Voice 15: Right.

[2:05:40] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick?

[2:05:44] Trustee Patrick: This issue is one that permeates everything.

[2:05:51] Trustee Patrick: Nobody in our islands understands the difference between the Federation and the local.

[2:05:57] Trustee Patrick: It's something we need to be doing at every step of the way all the time for everyone.

[2:06:02] Trustee Patrick: I mean, look at our newsletter that went out this week.

[2:06:04] Trustee Patrick: Island Trust Activities.

[2:06:07] Trustee Patrick: Gabriela Islands OCP. Is that an Islands Trust activity or is that a Gabriela Local Trust Committee activity? Even the housing survey that went out, everybody on our island thought it was our OCP project that that housing survey had to do with, not the Federation work that was being done.

[2:06:25] Trustee Patrick: so we have an obligation to do a far better job at every communication we do of what is you know

[2:06:33] Trustee Patrick: what body are we talking about and working for um you know even the headlines of you know the

[2:06:39] Trustee Patrick: september trust council meeting everyone on the island thought you know jamie and i were you know

[2:06:43] Trustee Patrick: down in the pits fighting and it was like no that was trust council that's that other body of 26

[2:06:48] Trustee Patrick: not this body nobody knows the difference so how are they gonna even run if our community doesn't

[2:06:54] Trustee Patrick: even know the difference we got to do a much better job okay

[2:06:58] Voice 15: but this is specific about letting

[2:07:01] Voice 15: people that are candidates get more information i

[2:07:05] Trustee Patrick: understand that but you know they're coming from

[2:07:07] Trustee Patrick: the constituent they're coming from our islands and they

[2:07:10] Trustee Patrick: and we we need to do it all the time

[2:07:13] Trustee Patrick: not

[2:07:13] Voice 15: just an election but i think what you're talking about is the communications and engagement

[2:07:18] Voice 15: Engagement number 12. And that is a function that needs to be much more widespread or information. But for sure, the candidates that are coming in, I think is the specific focus of this one, right? Number six. Sorry, Trustee Bernardo.

[2:07:46] Voice 15: Yeah,

[2:07:49] Voice 11: I think you're right, Chair Getty. This is narrowly spoken. I mean, I don't disagree with Trustee Patrick, and she's right that the confusion goes across the board, and candidates that run often share in that confusion.

[2:08:05] Voice 11: um it would probably be helpful to have this information issued um but you know when the

[2:08:17] Voice 11: election is called or sometime well we know it's not called it just happens but sometime beforehand

[2:08:22] Voice 11: so that prospective candidates um have the benefit of understanding what the job actually is

[2:08:30] Voice 11: rather than after having been elected because once they actually know what it is

[2:08:34] Voice 11: they may or may not want to do it. So on terms of timing, I think Trustee Patrick's onto something.

[2:08:42] Voice 11: I also agree with you, Chair Getty, that it shouldn't be narrowly focused on communication

[2:08:49] Voice 11: materials in advance of elections. It should be ongoing as well. So I would certainly support

[2:08:57] Voice 11: that. And I certainly support that with that change, I would support this recommendation

[2:09:03] Voice 11: quite strongly because certainly all the relevant information is out there and you know when i first

[2:09:11] Voice 11: came in i received a certain amount of that information that had been collated but it was

[2:09:16] Voice 11: still a little spread out and in terms of being actually having a clear explanation of what the

[2:09:23] Voice 11: job entails not just the dual role but also the character of committee work what it is what like

[2:09:29] Voice 11: like the committee is advisory, not, you know,

[2:09:32] Voice 11: it doesn't have any decision-making authority separately.

[2:09:36] Voice 11: Most importantly, how the relationship between trustees and staff operates

[2:09:40] Voice 11: in terms that staff is not there, will not and cannot do work

[2:09:46] Voice 11: without formalities having been observed and like by way of resolutions

[2:09:50] Voice 11: and there's all those type of limitations there.

[2:09:53] Voice 11: The role of executive committee in shepherding much of the work,

[2:09:57] Voice 11: all of those details about how the system operates it'd be very helpful to

[2:10:04] Voice 11: have that spelled out in crayon well ahead of an election so any candidate

[2:10:07] Voice 11: they know what they're getting into but more than that if they're elected they

[2:10:11] Voice 11: don't have a rough-and-ready roadmap of what the job actually is so I really

[2:10:17] Voice 11: think this is something that could make a big difference especially in the first

[2:10:21] Voice 11: year for a lot of trustees so I would support this one just to change

[2:10:25] Voice 11: trustee

[2:10:27] Voice 11: getty it's

[2:10:32] Voice 7: interesting uh this is it's very interesting because in a lot of ways this

[2:10:37] Voice 7: shines a light on um some of the issues the islands trust organization has structurally

[2:10:46] Voice 7: in the governance you know the governance review and the consultants that did this whole thing

[2:10:51] Voice 7: really have focused on on that and to the extent that we've sent this letter to the province and

[2:10:57] Voice 7: But this almost assumes that the province isn't going to take any – we won't get any traction with the province in opening legislation up on the Islands Trust of Man, you know, the act.

[2:11:11] Voice 7: But it – because, you know, I didn't know what was going on in Gambier Island.

[2:11:18] Voice 7: And should somebody from Salt Spring know what's going on in Gambier?

[2:11:21] Voice 7: I don't know.

[2:11:21] Voice 7: That's part of this whole structure issue.

[2:11:23] Voice 7: And should somebody from Gambier know what's going on in Salt Spring to the degree, being it's such a different beast, there's so many more people, you know, the tax contribution, on and on it goes.

[2:11:36] Voice 7: It's very in-depth compared to, you know, a smaller island or an island that's farther away.

[2:11:42] Voice 7: They have no idea.

[2:11:42] Voice 7: There are some that maybe have been in for a couple of terms or something and have a bit of an inkling of the magnitude of the issues on some of the islands.

[2:11:53] Voice 7: but this really does shine a light on the on as the governance uh review um consultants

[2:12:01] Voice 7: they use the word the dysfunction you know dysfunction i believe and um so you know i'm

[2:12:08] Voice 7: in support but at the same time this this is almost like we're assuming that we're not going

[2:12:14] Voice 7: to get any traction with a restructuring of the organization and um how how you know how

[2:12:21] Voice 7: how legitimate is it to think that we're going to school people on what's

[2:12:27] Voice 7: going on in different islands? And, and should they even, it's again,

[2:12:33] Voice 7: it shines a light on the dysfunction of the whole, uh, the whole situation.

[2:12:37] Voice 7: And hopefully we do get some traction with the province. Thank you.

[2:12:41] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick.

[2:12:43] Trustee Patrick: Oh, I think we have an opportunity to be a tad bit selfish here. Uh,

[2:12:46] Trustee Patrick: remember when I shared the Whistler's governance manual with everybody and how

[2:12:49] Trustee Patrick: how their manual that they have is the tool that they use to communicate

[2:12:54] Trustee Patrick: with their candidates as to what the job is,

[2:12:57] Trustee Patrick: and it becomes a guidance material for it.

[2:12:59] Trustee Patrick: So this might be the opportunity to take care of two issues,

[2:13:06] Trustee Patrick: and we introduced it before, that that's really what we need,

[2:13:10] Trustee Patrick: is this governance manual like Whistler has,

[2:13:12] Trustee Patrick: that it becomes the playbook for what the job is.

[2:13:17] Voice 15: That's a bigger project.

[2:13:19] Voice 15: Trustee Middleton?

[2:13:22] Voice 2: Thank you, yes.

[2:13:23] Voice 2: And my earlier comments about the secretariat, I realized I was in error.

[2:13:28] Voice 2: I was looking at the RFD document, not this attachment one, which is, I see, more useful for our conversation right now.

[2:13:38] Voice 2: know um what i would say about recommendation six and uh seven is that that would actually be the

[2:13:48] Voice 2: job of the governance professional which is otherwise we've been calling the uh the corporate

[2:13:54] Voice 2: secretary um there could they produce material uh that would be able to be distributed in advance

[2:14:02] Voice 2: of an election sure they could and probably they would um but they would also work with the um

[2:14:07] Voice 2: the incoming trustees to basically educate them on the local role versus the federation role

[2:14:17] Voice 2: and can do that in an ongoing basis and to some degree can do it in a personalized

[2:14:22] Voice 2: manner if there's some specifics of individual local trust committees that need communicating

[2:14:28] Voice 2: so I'm certainly in support of this recommendation as well as number seven

[2:14:35] Voice 2: And I just want to flag that if we do proceed with having a governance professional, and I think in recommendation number eight, which is the corporate secretary slash government professional, that actually articulates quite well what the role of that individual would be.

[2:14:52] Voice 2: I think our sticking point previously had been that the consultants talked about the professional being hired outside the public service agency and being hired directly by the reporting directly to trust counsel.

[2:15:05] Voice 2: And in the reading I've done, that's one way of doing it,

[2:15:11] Voice 2: but there are many ways of doing it,

[2:15:13] Voice 2: and I think what's probably more compatible for the Adams Trust

[2:15:16] Voice 2: is that indeed the individual is hired through the PSA

[2:15:19] Voice 2: and is an employee.

[2:15:22] Voice 15: I'm going to interrupt you.

[2:15:24] Voice 15: This is a larger conversation with respect to the secretariat

[2:15:29] Voice 15: that we've scheduled for the new business,

[2:15:34] Voice 15: your correspondence, and then I'm going to have to make some questions.

[2:15:40] Voice 15: I'm going to ask a question with respect to the recommendation number eight

[2:15:43] Voice 15: in terms of that role as well.

[2:15:44] Voice 15: So that's a bigger, deeper conversation that hopefully we'll have time for, right?

[2:15:51] Voice 2: I would suggest deferring recommendations six and seven

[2:15:54] Voice 2: until after that conversation to avoid, just to be more efficient

[2:15:58] Voice 2: and avoid repetition, because that 8 would speak directly to 6 and 7.

[2:16:07] Voice 15: Well, okay.

[2:16:15] Voice 15: We don't know how 8 is going to go.

[2:16:19] Voice 15: So we've now had some time to discuss number 6.

[2:16:25] Voice 15: I'm worried about losing that.

[2:16:27] Voice 15: Trustee Stamford.

[2:16:28] Voice 15: heard uh

[2:16:30] Trustee Stamford: yeah i mean this number six is not just standalone it does flow into others but it doesn't

[2:16:38] Trustee Stamford: mean we can't address it right now it has certain connotations but all these recommendations do they

[2:16:46] Trustee Stamford: all flow into each other so i'm comfortable looking at this recommendation the way it is now

[2:16:51] Trustee Stamford: and then whether other recommendations impact it, so be it.

[2:16:57] Trustee Stamford: I still think this is worth presenting.

[2:17:01] Trustee Stamford: It's got a specific request based on a specific recommendation

[2:17:06] Trustee Stamford: that we don't have a clear communications guide

[2:17:11] Trustee Stamford: for people that are considering running for trustee.

[2:17:15] Trustee Stamford: That's all it is.

[2:17:17] Trustee Stamford: Yes, it has implications, but let's focus on this.

[2:17:22] Voice 15: I see CAO Broney's hand

[2:17:24] Voice 14: up. Please.

[2:17:27] Voice 14: Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I would just comment on Trustee Middleton's suggestion.

[2:17:30] Voice 14: I think these two recommendations, 6 and 7, if Trust Council was to ultimately direct staff to do work in preparing, for example, the communication for potential candidates for Trust Council,

[2:17:47] Voice 14: staff regardless of who individually within staff would be tasked with that and whether that

[2:17:52] Voice 14: governance director or secretariat role came to be filled and took on that task

[2:17:57] Voice 14: staff would be obligated and would deliver on that recommendation and prepare that material

[2:18:02] Voice 14: and so my point being i think a decision on on this particular recommendation doesn't that isn't

[2:18:09] Voice 14: dependent on who would end up doing that work it's just whether or not trust council ultimately

[2:18:13] Voice 14: decides that that work is necessary and needs to be done and so I think you can address it here and

[2:18:18] Voice 14: then wherever you land on on the other recommendation may influence who actually ends up doing that work

[2:18:24] Voice 14: thanks um

[2:18:26] Voice 15: well I still have you um are there financial implications with respect to bringing

[2:18:32] Voice 15: in a new program of sending out material somehow would it all be virtual it

[2:18:37] Voice 14: would yeah it would

[2:18:38] Voice 14: The scope of any communications work is dependent on the desired outcomes and the best tactics and then the available budget and resourcing so if it was limited budget then you would most likely go exclusively digital anytime you start introducing printing costs etc that adds to it.

[2:18:55] Voice 14: And it also depends on, you know, whether or not you need to engage graphic design those kinds of things but if if we were to proceed with the project then we would scope it out and look at any necessary budget.

[2:19:07] Voice 14: So

[2:19:08] Voice 15: at this point, we're dealing with the idea, and if it does come to fruition, then the next steps would be something else.

[2:19:13] Voice 14: Right, build out a project plan, and if needed, a

[2:19:16] Voice 14: business case to support any financial resources.

[2:19:18] Voice 15: Great, thanks.

[2:19:19] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo.

[2:19:26] Voice 11: Thank you.

[2:19:28] Voice 11: Yeah, I understand where Trustee Middleton is coming from.

[2:19:30] Voice 11: And I think in some long term sense, I agree that, you know, the concept of the secretary role is ultimately probably best suited to execute this type of work, because under that role, the conception is that's where that's the core of the direct support for trust counsel.

[2:19:53] Voice 11: Council. But having said that, you know, I think Trustee Sanford makes a pretty good point,

[2:19:58] Voice 11: which is, you know, items six and seven here are pretty important. They're going to get done one

[2:20:03] Voice 11: way or the other. So there's no reason why we can't have staff starting to develop that work

[2:20:09] Voice 11: and maybe even complete that work. Because the important thing is that trustees get that

[2:20:18] Voice 11: support candidates ahead of time and and then subsequently and you know if and when uh the

[2:20:28] Voice 11: secretariat role is established um that i could easily see these responsibilities being rolled

[2:20:35] Voice 11: into that position but i i don't think we should be waiting until that gets decided before we start

[2:20:41] Voice 11: recognizing that one way or the other this work needs to get done and looking at this part i was

[2:20:47] Voice 11: was looking at uh recommendation seven and i think chair getty your your issue that um

[2:20:52] Voice 11: the education continues subsequently actually that's covered by seven so um i'm going to move

[2:21:00] Voice 11: um uh recommendation six so as written i've got another

[2:21:09] Voice 15: hand up if i may okay trustee harris

[2:21:12] Voice 15: i

[2:21:15] Voice 7: was honestly just going to speak in support of them trustee middleton being that he put together

[2:21:19] Voice 7: other presentation about you know he has he has information involving recommendation number eight

[2:21:24] Voice 7: and i didn't see the harm in speaking about that first before we because clearly i respect that he

[2:21:30] Voice 7: has you know done some work and and has you know some uh you know well-thought-out ideas in his

[2:21:38] Voice 7: mind and um but what i don't see the harm in speaking about it first as i was just in support

[2:21:43] Voice 7: of trustee middleton in that regard and um and that's it

[2:21:48] Voice 15: trustee bernardo oh sorry the other

[2:21:51] Voice 15: hand trustee middleton oh

[2:21:52] Voice 2: yeah just no just to speak in so i i i'm convinced by uh notwithstanding

[2:21:57] Voice 2: trustee harris um thank you for those comments but i think what trustee bernardo and stamford

[2:22:02] Voice 2: have said makes sense we we're not we're not necessarily going backwards if we endorse

[2:22:06] Voice 2: or that recommendation six and seven,

[2:22:09] Voice 2: and then subsequently do have the secretariat

[2:22:13] Voice 2: or governance director.

[2:22:15] Voice 2: So I was just gonna say, I support six and ultimately seven,

[2:22:19] Voice 2: if we wanna move those.

[2:22:21] Voice 15: So Trustee Bernardo, there's a motion on the recommendation

[2:22:26] Voice 15: on the screen.

[2:22:30] Voice 11: Yes, and that I'm uncertain at the moment,

[2:22:35] Voice 11: but whether we should be tweaking the word dual roles

[2:22:37] Voice 11: to encompass all the other stuff i was talking about committee work and um you know better

[2:22:42] Voice 11: communication in advance

[2:22:43] Voice 13: yeah

[2:22:45] Voice 11: just the roles take out dual perhaps and um i think that should cover

[2:22:51] Voice 11: the whole territory okay so

[2:22:53] Voice 11: the focus of

[2:22:54] Voice 15: this recommendation from the review though is in

[2:22:56] Voice 15: particular to the um local trust committees and federation i think that's what the dual is

[2:23:02] Voice 15: referring to so that was an emphasis yes

[2:23:05] Voice 11: but usually yes

[2:23:08] Voice 12: because

[2:23:10] Voice 11: the word just having the

[2:23:13] Voice 11: general term roles and referencing this recommendation let's let's always remember

[2:23:18] Voice 11: i mean there's an eagerness obviously on this committee to get into the weeds about

[2:23:22] Voice 11: okay uh the different issues but let's let's remind ourselves what we're doing here is crafting

[2:23:28] Voice 11: Council and and the term rules covers everything okay including the committee work and including

[2:23:36] Voice 11: the relationship with executive committee and so forth

[2:23:38] Voice 11: that I was rattling on before and with

[2:23:41] Voice 11: the

[2:23:42] Voice 15: way this is edited sorry if

[2:23:45] Voice 11: I could just finish the way this is presented will be it'll

[2:23:50] Voice 11: be correlated to recommendation six so that dual aspect is going to come out anyhow so that's the

[2:23:56] Voice 11: motion i'm making as written i don't think i need to read it

[2:23:58] Voice 15: thank you trustee peterson second the

[2:24:02] Voice 10: motion okay

[2:24:03] Voice 15: any more discussion all those in favor okay um lower your hands um any opposed

[2:24:23] Voice 15: all right so um trustee harris you didn't vote so i'm assuming that you've abstained and that's

[2:24:36] Voice 15: a vote in favor so that's uh you know i wasn't i

[2:24:40] Voice 6: didn't uh i didn't vote against that sorry

[2:24:46] Voice 7: saying no i didn't vote against that was um you're correct all right

[2:24:52] Voice 6: abstained all right

[2:24:54] Voice 15: recommendation number seven we're coming up to 12 30 and that's when i was thinking it would

[2:24:59] Voice 15: be a good time to take a break and that's just before the um recommendation number eight

[2:25:05] Voice 15: Secretariat and the all the other material that is related to that so I'm

[2:25:13] Voice 15: going to take the lunch break I think we'll finish this one up take the lunch

[2:25:17] Voice 15: break and then see what we want to do with the rest of these recommendations

[2:25:20] Voice 15: so number seven is the helping trustees fulfill their role I have some concerns

[2:25:30] Voice 15: with respect to the report as drafted in terms of the Islands Trust actions taken to date

[2:25:37] Voice 15: to address this recommendation, and I think that there's some things that have been done.

[2:25:43] Voice 15: The Alamina workshop that we did, the work that we've done with respect to reconciliation

[2:25:50] Voice 15: and some legal opinions on that, the media relations workshop that we did,

[2:25:55] Voice 15: and some other opinions that we've received from legal opinions

[2:26:02] Voice 15: so that we've been educated with respect to a number of others.

[2:26:05] Voice 15: So I would think that the recommendation should be something in terms of requesting staff

[2:26:13] Voice 15: to update ongoing education for trustees, not necessarily just the orientation approach.

[2:26:22] Voice 15: approach. And it doesn't, I'm not sure that it's necessarily in advance of the election.

[2:26:31] Voice 15: So those are the issues that I saw with respect to this. Trustee Harris.

[2:26:38] Voice 7: Thank you. It's, this can be more contentious than not the recommendation itself, but as actual

[2:26:49] Voice 7: being, you know, the implementing of it in trust counsel, because so much of this hinges on

[2:26:55] Voice 7: the mandate and you know what have we agreed on section three and how is that um conveyed

[2:27:01] Voice 7: to new trustees and and on and on um i remember a line from the cao at the beginning of our

[2:27:09] Voice 7: orientation at the beginning of the term um where he was you know speaking and and i'm pretty sure

[2:27:17] Voice 7: the quote was um all you have to do is fly over the um the islands trust area and see that it has

[2:27:26] Voice 7: been a success and um to me that really i sunk really really low when i heard that because

[2:27:33] Voice 7: there was no mention of the people that are there in the communities and so there's there's

[2:27:38] Voice 7: anyhow it can be a very contentious thing on what is conveyed to trustees so

[2:27:42] Voice 7: So, you know, how are we helping trustees fulfill the role with what information and on and on it goes.

[2:27:49] Voice 7: But those are my thoughts at this point.

[2:27:51] Voice 7: Thank you.

[2:27:53] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo.

[2:27:56] Voice 11: Thank you.

[2:27:59] Voice 11: I support doing this with just a point of clarification or qualification, which is first to address the issue you raised before, Chair.

[2:28:13] Voice 11: I think it needs to be done in advance of the election.

[2:28:16] Voice 11: So the orientation approach is ready for new trustees when they come in.

[2:28:21] Voice 11: But and you were quite correct to identify a whole bunch of different things have been provided to us in terms of corporate education, if you want to put it that way.

[2:28:34] Voice 11: But it's all over the map. I mean, it's it's it's some of it is educational in the sense of giving us information to help us execute the duties.

[2:28:44] Voice 11: and then there's orientation which is different which is information to help us understand

[2:28:50] Voice 11: what those duties actually are and i think that's the most important part

[2:28:55] Voice 11: of what this is trying to get at so um my concern is that we have a structured orientation approach

[2:29:05] Voice 11: from what i've seen over the past two and some years uh it all and it could just be a matter

[2:29:12] Voice 11: out of appearances but um it just appears to me to be kind of a collection of good ideas that have

[2:29:19] Voice 11: been sort of jumbled together or just arise and then it happens it's not a program and i think

[2:29:26] Voice 11: i would support this resolution but with the understanding with the view that uh it would

[2:29:32] Voice 11: be to be designing like a structured program of orientation uh and that it wouldn't be contingent

[2:29:39] Voice 11: or occasional, but within the first six months, say, of a new term, all trustees and, you

[2:29:48] Voice 11: know, and we have assistance in new trustees, all trustees will have been, you know, oriented

[2:29:54] Voice 11: about what the job is and given all the information they need in a structured seat.

[2:30:00] Voice 11: So I really think it's really important to emphasize the structure part of it. I don't think that's necessarily something we have to get into here in terms of bringing this forward to Trust Council. Very long-winded way of saying I support the recommendation.

[2:30:15] Voice 11: All

[2:30:18] Voice 15: right. So I think to be fair to staff that our orientation was relatively new and fresh in terms of being a recommendation from the review that got picked up by the governance committee the last time and recommended to staff.

[2:30:40] Voice 15: so they were trying to they were um pulling it together um and i think i would guess um that they

[2:30:49] Voice 15: would probably critique it themselves in terms of they could you know bring in other people and do

[2:30:55] Voice 15: it different ways and um so what this is asking that we request trust council request staff to

[2:31:02] Voice 15: update the orientation approach for trustees in advance of the 2026 election so that presumably

[2:31:10] Voice 15: that we've got it ready and ready to go when that new council comes in focus on both procedural and

[2:31:16] Voice 15: substantive matters in accordance with this recommendation so my suggestion was on including

[2:31:23] Voice 15: ongoing education but that is separate from the orientation package trustee stamford yeah i i

[2:31:33] Trustee Stamford: I think, like, having gone through four orientations, each one is different.

[2:31:40] Trustee Stamford: Each one builds on the other.

[2:31:41] Trustee Stamford: Some are more detailed than the other.

[2:31:45] Trustee Stamford: I think this recommendation can move forward with an amendment to adding a focus on structured procedural and substantive matters.

[2:31:59] Trustee Stamford: Would that help, Trustee Bernardos?

[2:32:05] Trustee Stamford: comments about the the requirement for structure uh

[2:32:11] Voice 11: if i may answer the question um

[2:32:16] Voice 11: uh i appreciate the suggestion i uh i don't think it's necessary to to get into the wordsmithing

[2:32:23] Voice 11: the point of this is it's is is to bring the question forward to trust council let's update

[2:32:29] Voice 11: the orientation

[2:32:30] Voice 11: approach and i think in the presentation that comes from staff they've

[2:32:35] Voice 11: you know they're sensible people they've heard the point i could be wrong by the way about this

[2:32:41] Voice 11: structured stuff maybe they think it's already structured they've got the point and it will come

[2:32:45] Voice 11: it will get elaborated one way or the other when the trustees discuss it so i don't think it's

[2:32:49] Voice 11: strictly speaking it's necessary i'm happy with the resolution as it is yeah

[2:32:53] Trustee Stamford: and and and um

[2:32:57] Trustee Stamford: just to follow up i'm i would like to move the motion as it stands um

[2:33:05] Voice 15: so we've got a motion now

[2:33:06] Voice 15: that is the oh um it's included my language in terms of ongoing education and orientation

[2:33:14] Voice 15: approach is that uh ongoing education part included now i thought we oh the second one

[2:33:24] Voice 15: there it is

[2:33:25] Voice 1: yeah if i may um i just put that on there in case you wanted to move that but i think

[2:33:30] Voice 1: you're going with the original so i'm going to delete this yep

[2:33:33] Voice 15: okay

[2:33:34] Voice 1: okay

[2:33:35] Voice 15: who and that's what

[2:33:37] Voice 15: what you're moving, Trustee Stamford?

[2:33:39] Voice 15: Nodding yes.

[2:33:40] Voice 15: Okay, do we have a seconder?

[2:33:42] Voice 13: I'll second it.

[2:33:43] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo.

[2:33:45] Voice 15: All right, any more discussion?

[2:33:48] Voice 15: No hands raised.

[2:33:50] Voice 15: Let's have a vote.

[2:33:51] Voice 15: All those in favor?

[2:33:59] Voice 15: Trustee Harris, you want to raise your hand physically?

[2:34:01] Voice 15: Oh, there it is.

[2:34:03] Voice 15: All right, that's unanimous.

[2:34:04] Voice 15: Lower your hand.

[2:34:07] Voice 15: 1236, I suggest we take a half an hour for a lunch break.

[2:34:11] Voice 15: and um recommendation eight is next and in addition to the recommendation that's in this

[2:34:20] Voice 15: report we've got um the correspondence from uh trustee middleton with respect to uh the

[2:34:27] Voice 15: secretariat position and the um report from director marler with respect to a request for

[2:34:38] Voice 15: decision page 28 excuse me and 29 of our agenda so um we need to decide when we get back from lunch

[2:34:47] Voice 15: um how we want to handle that all of that material and um i think it's a bigger discussion that uh

[2:34:53] Voice 15: is separate from these recommendations but um i await your pleasure that'll be our first order

[2:35:00] Voice 15: our business when we get back how to best deal with this um so um have a good lunch

[2:35:08] Voice 1: i'll just check what time you want to come

[2:35:11] Voice 1: back chagetti so

[2:35:12] Voice 15: what do we got what's half an hour

[2:35:14] Voice 15: after 37 that's uh 107 minutes after yeah 107 thanks microphone's off

[3:06:02] Voice 13: Chair Getty.

[3:06:09] Voice 8: Hello.

[3:06:10] Voice 8: For some reason, some red lines have appeared.

[3:06:14] Voice 8: Yeah.

[3:06:14] Voice 8: Are they showing up?

[3:06:16] Voice 15: They are.

[3:06:17] Voice 8: I

[3:06:18] Voice 15: have no idea

[3:06:18] Voice 8: where they came from.

[3:06:22] Voice 8: I was away from lunch and I just came back and they're all over.

[3:06:26] Voice 8: Okay.

[3:06:30] Voice 8: Well.

[3:06:31] Voice 8: Luckily,

[3:06:32] Voice 15: they're very faint.

[3:06:34] Voice 8: Red lines.

[3:06:35] Voice 8: Where are you seeing those?

[3:06:37] Voice 8: On the screen, I'm showing the notice that the Governance Committee has recessed.

[3:06:43] Voice 8: And I've got red lines all over my screen suddenly.

[3:06:50] Voice 1: I'm not seeing that at all where I'm at.

[3:06:52] Voice 8: Oh, good.

[3:06:55] Voice 8: But you are, Chair Getty?

[3:06:56] Voice 13: I do.

[3:06:57] Voice 13: Yeah.

[3:06:58] Voice 13: I can

[3:06:58] Voice 8: see it too.

[3:06:59] Voice 13: I see it as well.

[3:07:02] Voice 8: Okay.

[3:07:03] Voice 8: Just another mystery.

[3:07:05] Voice 1: I'm sharing the agenda.

[3:07:07] Voice 1: Can you see that now?

[3:07:09] Voice 8: No, I will stop sharing.

[3:07:11] Voice 8: sharing not on the agenda

[3:07:13] Voice 15: okay oh were you sharing

[3:07:17] Voice 15: robert yes

[3:07:18] Voice 1: interesting so

[3:07:21] Voice 8: is i uh i

[3:07:24] Voice 8: the host trumps if i could

[3:07:27] Voice 8: use that word um the anyone else sharing okay please

[3:07:34] Trustee Stamford: don't use that

[3:07:34] Trustee Stamford: word sorry sorry

[3:07:37] Voice 1: sorry have you stopped sharing else awesome yeah i

[3:07:42] Voice 1: like the word

[3:07:46] Voice 15: okay um i think we're back got quorum yeah so um we're back to the uh recommendations from

[3:07:57] Voice 15: governance council to uh committee of the whole with respect to the recommendations of the

[3:08:03] Voice 15: governance review 2022 governance review and we're up to their number eight uh recommendation

[3:08:09] Voice 15: about a secretary to the Trust Council.

[3:08:13] Voice 15: What we also have on our agenda is, with respect to the same issue,

[3:08:18] Voice 15: is 7.2, a business case for funding of a position,

[3:08:25] Voice 15: a consultant to research this suggestion,

[3:08:30] Voice 15: and late correspondence that we received late yesterday afternoon

[3:08:34] Voice 15: from Trustee Middleton with respect to his support and recommendation for this.

[3:08:42] Voice 15: So I think the, personally, I think that our discussion about the recommendation

[3:08:51] Voice 15: in the governance review is, might have, well, it's complicated in terms of there's overlap

[3:09:03] Voice 15: lap between the recommendation and the budget item. And the explanation and the discussion

[3:09:12] Voice 15: that is part of the correspondence, it seems to me, is at some point we have to have some

[3:09:20] Voice 15: pretty basic discussion about what the issues are and what the problems are that we're going

[3:09:28] Voice 15: going to be dealing with that this position would alleviate. And that, I think, takes us into the

[3:09:36] Voice 15: potential for a discussion about past and or current staffing and responsibilities and roles

[3:09:45] Voice 15: and whether or not there's going to be any specific mention of staff and what they've

[3:09:57] Voice 15: been doing and any sort of criticism and critiquing. And that must be held for their

[3:10:05] Voice 15: sake and for our sake in a closed meeting. So if we go into closed now, then it's something that

[3:10:18] Voice 15: the staff could and should be excused from. And that presents technical difficulties in terms of

[3:10:25] Voice 15: of how to get back into a public meeting and calling staff back in,

[3:10:31] Voice 15: stopping the live streaming and bringing that back in.

[3:10:35] Voice 15: And that's complicated in terms of my lack of understanding and training.

[3:10:45] Voice 15: So how would you like to handle this?

[3:10:50] Voice 15: Trustee Middleton.

[3:10:51] Voice 15: I'm

[3:10:52] Voice 2: not at all clear on what the need for a closed session is at this point, Chair Getty.

[3:11:00] Voice 2: Maybe I missed something.

[3:11:03] Voice 2: But could you elaborate?

[3:11:06] Voice 2: Because I think that the discussion of secretariat very much involves the trustees and how the trustees are coordinated or coordinate themselves.

[3:11:15] Voice 2: themselves and then the connection with staff is just a standard matter that it's not specific to

[3:11:25] Voice 2: any one individual.

[3:11:28] Voice 15: It's along the lines of some of the comments that were made when we were talking

[3:11:32] Voice 15: about recommendations six and seven that some of this work is being done currently by staff and

[3:11:41] Voice 15: And that this would be a position that would take over and do the same work or do the same work differently or whatever the proposal is all about.

[3:11:58] Voice 15: So if we're getting into a discussion about the roles and functions of existing staff and why we need this, in your opinion, this position, then I think that that is something that we need to be very, very careful about.

[3:12:15] Voice 2: We're not getting into that discussion. That's completely not the case.

[3:12:20] Voice 15: Okay. Trustee Bernardo?

[3:12:22] Voice 15: no thank

[3:12:24] Voice 11: you um i could see how a discussion like this uh if loosely conducted by trustees could

[3:12:31] Voice 11: go into the area that you're right would be rightly concerned about

[3:12:36] Voice 11: um i'm inclined to agree with trustee middleton in that i don't think the discussion as framed by

[3:12:45] Voice 11: the recommendation at eight needs to get into anything to do with the staff because

[3:12:51] Voice 11: Because the report talks about the actual governance report.

[3:12:59] Voice 11: It's not in any sense critical of what staff is doing at that level.

[3:13:05] Voice 11: What it's identifying is support that Trust Council is missing that it could do with.

[3:13:12] Voice 11: So when the question comes up, it's like, why is it not getting that support?

[3:13:16] Voice 11: That's actually not the nature of the support that the Trust Council gets.

[3:13:21] Voice 11: It's not up to staff.

[3:13:23] Voice 11: Staff operates at that level in constructing the agendas, is subject to the policy, our meeting policy, which, I mean, there's volumes to talk about that, but I won't.

[3:13:35] Voice 11: But it's also basically at the direction of executive committee.

[3:13:39] Voice 11: So, first of all, I don't think, I mean, the discussion about secretariat is to make things better, to sort of go to a more optimal approach.

[3:13:49] Voice 11: That's, I think, what Trustee Middleton is about, and I think that's what the report

[3:13:55] Voice 11: was aiming at.

[3:13:57] Voice 11: I don't think it's necessary to criticize anybody, including the executive committee.

[3:14:01] Voice 11: What we have is an existing structure, and we're talking about supplementing it with

[3:14:07] Voice 11: something different.

[3:14:08] Voice 11: So, if we're careful, I think we can stay away from trouble.

[3:14:11] Voice 15: Trustee Stamford?

[3:14:16] Trustee Stamford: I have a hard out at two, so let's get on with the discussion and see where we

[3:14:23] Trustee Stamford: we go all

[3:14:26] Voice 15: right um so we've got uh the budget item the correspondence um has everybody had a

[3:14:36] Voice 15: chance to read and um spend enough time reflecting on the correspondence that was late yesterday

[3:14:43] Voice 15: yes

[3:14:44] Voice 13: i have anybody

[3:14:50] Voice 15: else yes all good

[3:14:56] Voice 6: here thank you i

[3:14:57] Voice 10: i've read it but i wouldn't say i've had

[3:14:59] Voice 10: had opportunity to deeply reflect on it so just well

[3:15:06] Voice 15: do we need time oh

[3:15:11] Trustee Luckham: yeah i'll just chime in

[3:15:13] Voice 15: as

[3:15:13] Trustee Luckham: well as it's it's less than optimal to receive information of this nature late um that needs

[3:15:21] Trustee Luckham: serious consideration i've certainly looked at it um but point of order i don't

[3:15:26] Trustee Luckham: i don't understand

[3:15:33] Voice 7: My point of order is that

[3:15:36] Voice 7: Chair Luckham is ex officio and can't vote on any of the motions

[3:15:40] Voice 7: that happen in this committee, so I'm not sure how relevant

[3:15:44] Voice 7: his opinion on whether we can look at this today or not.

[3:15:47] Voice 15: He's a member

[3:15:48] Voice 7: of the committee.

[3:15:48] Voice 15: He has an opinion.

[3:15:52] Voice 15: Director Marler?

[3:15:54] Voice 1: Yeah, I was just going to say that the only restriction is the voting.

[3:15:57] Voice 1: the ex-officials can certainly debate sorry

[3:16:04] Voice 6: then i apologize trustee

[3:16:06] Trustee Luckham: luckham uh no i just uh think

[3:16:11] Trustee Luckham: there needs to be more time to consider that report thank you did

[3:16:20] Voice 7: we have a vote on it well

[3:16:26] Voice 11: we've already agreed to treat it as new business i mean we're revisiting an issue we already

[3:16:36] Voice 11: decided at the outset of this meeting i sorry i should say point of order um to um to make that

[3:16:43] Voice 11: point.

[3:16:45] Voice 15: Say that again, please.

[3:16:47] Voice 11: My point of order is, you know, we've already decided at the outset

[3:16:52] Voice 11: of this meeting that we were going to discuss it as new business. And of course, nothing at this

[3:17:00] Voice 11: meeting, let's remind ourselves, is permanent or final. And Trustee Middleton's memo is more about

[3:17:09] Voice 11: more a piece of advocacy in favor of the secretariat issue, the immediate matter at

[3:17:14] Voice 11: hand before it and it can inform this decision but the decision before us right now is um about

[3:17:22] Voice 11: what goes before trust council and what we have is a recommendation from staff that we ought to

[3:17:27] Voice 11: drop it which is uh but contrary to the decision this committee made back in may and the staff

[3:17:34] Voice 11: dutifully has done what we asked it for and has come up with the budgetary request for to explore

[3:17:39] Voice 11: it but its advice here is we ought not to explore it so i think that's the thing we have to decide

[3:17:45] Voice 11: now okay

[3:17:47] Voice 15: excuse me your point of order was that we had agreed to discuss it as new business

[3:17:51] Voice 15: that's item number nine and we're halfway through not only just halfway through this list of

[3:17:58] Voice 15: recommendations which is our main focus of this meeting to try and set up what we're going to be

[3:18:03] Voice 15: be doing at this Committee of the Whole, and to have any kind of a lengthy and, you know,

[3:18:11] Voice 15: to understand this proposal and to, you know, put it into the context of these recommendations

[3:18:16] Voice 15: and the budget proposal and, you know, consideration for both Finance Committee and

[3:18:23] Voice 15: Trust ultimately, and, you know, whether or not we do and how we present this at Committee of the

[3:18:28] Voice 15: a whole it's it's deeper than possibly we've got time for is my consideration so the priority was

[3:18:35] Voice 15: to get through all the recommendations and some of this other extra business and this has come in

[3:18:40] Voice 15: primarily as a late item although it is part of section eight so um if that's the complication

[3:18:48] Voice 15: if we don't have to have an in-house or sorry in camera that's a help but it still is something

[3:18:55] Voice 15: something that I think is going to take some time and I don't want it to

[3:18:59] Voice 15: necessarily push the rest of this

[3:19:03] Voice 15: organizing for the committee of the whole out. Your hand is still up

[3:19:10] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo?

[3:19:11] Voice 13: Sorry. Trustee Harris?

[3:19:18] Voice 15: And again

[3:19:19] Voice 7: I guess the fact is that we did accept this as new business

[3:19:23] Voice 7: already and so I don't understand the

[3:19:27] Voice 7: item

[3:19:27] Voice 15: nine after we get through the

[3:19:29] Voice 15: rest of the agenda is my point director marler yeah i was

[3:19:34] Voice 1: actually just going to uh comment that the the recommendation here was based on the lack of

[3:19:42] Voice 1: understanding of what the problem was from a staff perspective uh so what you might want to do is

[3:19:48] Voice 1: just to advance through like leave number eight go through nine to fifteen and then you may want

[3:19:54] Voice 1: to have a discussion around the work that trustee middleton has presented because that might actually

[3:20:00] Voice 1: help you to come to a definition of what the um the problem is that you're trying to solve

[3:20:06] Voice 1: and then you can come back to this recommendation here and um decide what you want to advance

[3:20:12] Voice 1: that way you can at least get through the rest of this document without getting

[3:20:16] Voice 1: caught up in this discussion at this stage that's just a suggestion it's

[3:20:23] Voice 15: helpful any other comments

[3:20:32] Voice 15: So I'm going to recommend that we skip number eight for the time being, and as Director Marler has suggested, deal with the proposal, the correspondence, and finish the rest of this document, and then deal with the, I guess, the budget proposal and the correspondence.

[3:21:00] Voice 15: Sorry, Trustee Middleton.

[3:21:02] Voice 15: Excuse

[3:21:05] Voice 2: me. I'm just clarifying that what we're talking about with number eight is whether to proceed to a research phase of the governance professional, not that we actually flesh out exactly what it would look like and how it would function.

[3:21:25] Voice 2: because I think what I found is there are a lot of options

[3:21:28] Voice 2: and professional guidance would be very useful there.

[3:21:32] Voice 2: And I took from my fellow trustees that the issue was

[3:21:36] Voice 2: they didn't understand what it might look like

[3:21:38] Voice 2: or ways it might operate.

[3:21:42] Voice 2: And I've seen now that there are many ways

[3:21:45] Voice 2: that it could operate and function in context

[3:21:47] Voice 2: of the provincial public service.

[3:21:50] Voice 2: So just circling back that that's the ask

[3:21:53] Voice 2: is that we spend some money on professional research

[3:21:57] Voice 2: as to how the role might function with trust,

[3:22:03] Voice 2: with the Islands Trust.

[3:22:05] Voice 2: And then I imagine there'd be another phase

[3:22:07] Voice 2: to actually design the role with input, obviously,

[3:22:09] Voice 2: of trustees, staff, and a professional.

[3:22:13] Voice 2: So just to kind of point out the stakes

[3:22:16] Voice 2: are maybe not quite as high at this point

[3:22:18] Voice 2: as they might seem with this discussion.

[3:22:20] Voice 2: discussion we're actually talking about further research at this point okay

[3:22:25] Voice 15: trustee Peterson uh

[3:22:28] Voice 10: yeah I I tend to agree we're not deciding or defining the role today uh in my view either

[3:22:36] Voice 10: it's just in terms of the recommendation um that's before us whether we think setting it aside is the

[3:22:45] Voice 10: the thing to do or or indeed um advancing um the the essentially the research work that will flesh

[3:22:53] Voice 10: out the information not just i think for us but for um trust council when the time comes um

[3:23:01] Voice 10: potentially for trust council to have a look at this so um based on my understanding of of what

[3:23:09] Voice 10: what Trustee Middleton is requesting here.

[3:23:13] Voice 10: I don't see that we need to necessarily skip ahead.

[3:23:17] Voice 10: If it's too contentious for us to just come to a vote,

[3:23:21] Voice 10: whether we advance the work in relation to the, you know,

[3:23:27] Voice 10: a funding request for research,

[3:23:30] Voice 10: then I guess that could be potentially a problem.

[3:23:32] Voice 10: But I think it's, to me, it's fairly straightforward.

[3:23:35] Voice 10: We're not deciding or defining everything today.

[3:23:38] Voice 10: we're we're deliberating on whether or not we want to advance any work on this so

[3:23:46] Voice 15: you're suggesting

[3:23:48] Voice 15: we work on the finance before this uh

[3:23:52] Voice 10: not necessarily i think i think that would be

[3:23:54] Voice 10: putting the cart before the horse i think we need to decide whether in principle whether we want to

[3:24:01] Voice 10: do the work and then if that is the case then we can continue going through our list here of the

[3:24:06] Voice 10: the rest of the items and then that business case shows up later in the agenda so that would be my

[3:24:12] Voice 10: preference trustee

[3:24:16] Voice 15: harris i

[3:24:18] Voice 7: find it a little no this is no attack on anybody i find it a bit

[3:24:22] Voice 7: troubling that we spent this time arguing great

[3:24:25] Voice 15: whether we can talk

[3:24:26] Voice 7: about it or not we should

[3:24:28] Voice 7: i'm sorry can you hear me now yeah

[3:24:30] Voice 15: maybe if you turned off your video

[3:24:32] Voice 15: sometimes that helps with

[3:24:34] Voice 15: the audio is that better

[3:24:38] Voice 7: yes can

[3:24:40] Voice 7: you hear me now yes um anyways i was just saying that it's we've

[3:24:48] Voice 7: spent so much time deliberating whether we can talk about this or not if we had just talked about

[3:24:53] Voice 7: it we maybe would be you know well on our way so it would be nice just to continue and and you know

[3:24:59] Voice 7: with on with what we were doing which

[3:25:01] Voice 15: part would you like to talk about first trustee bernardo i

[3:25:11] Voice 11: I would like to just wade into this because I actually don't think this particular thing is that this recommendation before us is particularly complicated.

[3:25:22] Voice 11: As Trustee Middleton himself had said, I mean, what we're meeting today is not to decide the preferred form of corporate secretary,

[3:25:33] Voice 11: and we're not even necessarily recommending that there be a corporate secretary performing those functions.

[3:25:42] Voice 11: it's in keeping i mean what we're in a sense we're doing is revisiting the question we already

[3:25:47] Voice 11: answered for ourselves back in may we we asked for the funding to be developed because we'd agreed

[3:25:53] Voice 11: as a committee that this was worth pursuing it was a recommendation in the report that had merit

[3:25:58] Voice 11: and deserved research and now we're doing what we i'm afraid to have to say this that we do a little

[3:26:04] Voice 11: too often around here which is keep circling back and keep asking ourselves do we really want to do

[3:26:08] Voice 11: it we decided this so uh i'd like to make one practical point here sorry are we having

[3:26:18] Voice 11: that

[3:26:19] Voice 11: discussion now uh i shouldn't say anything more unless we're going to have that discussion

[3:26:24] Voice 15: this was put on our agenda as an urgent and important by trust council um this was not um

[3:26:33] Voice 15: although i missed the last meeting um this was not a discussion of this committee

[3:26:40] Voice 15: Well,

[3:26:41] Voice 11: the funding request, with respect to Chairman Giddens, the funding request was

[3:26:47] Voice 11: the decision of this committee.

[3:26:49] Voice 11: So this committee already put its mind to the merits of this, of the exploration.

[3:26:55] Voice 11: The

[3:26:56] Voice 15: funding proposal from the last meeting was that there wasn't enough information that

[3:27:02] Voice 15: was put over till today.

[3:27:04] Voice 15: and we've got a new funding proposal that is our agenda number 7.2 and that is to be discussed at

[3:27:16] Voice 15: some next and then okay but

[3:27:22] Voice 11: um we have before us this item well i don't know i i'm i said a bit of

[3:27:30] Voice 11: a loss i don't understand why we're going in circles in this i i'm going to add my voice to

[3:27:34] Voice 11: To those who think that we should just, let's not forget, Trustee Stamford has our heart out in a half hour.

[3:27:40] Voice 11: This

[3:27:40] Voice 15: is an important one.

[3:27:41] Voice 11: Let's

[3:27:42] Voice 15: get into it.

[3:27:42] Voice 11: That's my suggestion.

[3:27:44] Voice 15: This recommendation, then, is that Trust Council not advance the Recommendation 8 of the Governance Report pending the outcome of the request to the province to review the Islands Trust governance structure.

[3:27:56] Voice 13: Right.

[3:27:59] Voice 15: That's a whole other issue.

[3:28:01] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo.

[3:28:03] Voice 11: So I am assuming we're now going to proceed with this.

[3:28:05] Voice 11: Is that right?

[3:28:06] Voice 11: Right. Apparently, that's the. Thank you.

[3:28:11] Voice 11: I disagree with the recommendation. I think it should be the other way around.

[3:28:15] Voice 11: I think the recommendation should be that we should examine the issue of the potential value of the secretariat.

[3:28:26] Voice 11: I don't understand how staff reached the conclusion.

[3:28:32] Voice 11: And I would ask Director Marler to explain this at the right moment.

[3:28:36] Voice 11: reached the conclusion that this was something that would be subsumed under the request of the

[3:28:42] Voice 11: province. I don't see it that way at all. And I think it's really important that we remember that

[3:28:51] Voice 11: the position of both corporate secretary and corporate treasurer with specific duties is

[3:29:00] Voice 11: actually, those are statutory positions that are within the act. The position of corporate

[3:29:07] Voice 11: The corporate secretary already exists, as does the position of treasurer.

[3:29:12] Voice 11: And the corporate secretary does actually have some specific responsibilities, which would, broadly speaking, could be seen as encompassing all of the things that Trustee Middleton cares about.

[3:29:24] Voice 11: I mean, the room is within the legislation to turn that position, the corporate secretary position, as contemplated by the legislation.

[3:29:31] Voice 11: legislation, the way it's contemplated by the legislation gives us the room to expand

[3:29:36] Voice 11: that role or to shape that role to be the kind of trust council support concept that

[3:29:44] Voice 11: Trustee Middleton has in mind.

[3:29:46] Voice 11: With respect to our, in fact, I think it's important to make this point, I have real

[3:29:51] Voice 11: reservations with how under our current policies how we

[3:30:00] Voice 11: deal with these positions of corporate secretary and the appointments to them section 17 of the

[3:30:06] Voice 11: act says trust council must appoint the corporate secretary must appoint the treasurer we don't do

[3:30:13] Voice 11: it that instead what happens is it's the appointment through some policy is whoever

[3:30:19] Voice 11: occupies the position of i believe director of legislative services is the corporate secretary

[3:30:24] Voice 11: And whoever is the person who is responsible to the director of administrative services, now financial services, is the person who's responsible for treasurer.

[3:30:36] Voice 11: Those become CAO appointments because the CAO is actually the person who makes those decisions.

[3:30:43] Voice 11: That is, I don't think we should be doing it that way.

[3:30:47] Voice 11: The appointment should be directly from Trust Council because the way the Act phrases it, and it certainly looks like to me, that the Corporate Secretary and Treasurer are both intended to be directly accountable to Trust Council.

[3:31:05] Voice 11: So, with that…

[3:31:06] Voice 11: I have Dr.

[3:31:07] Voice 15: Marler's hand up.

[3:31:09] Voice 11: Right.

[3:31:10] Voice 11: So, I'll finish my thought and we can race over to Director Marler.

[3:31:14] Voice 11: So my thought of it is, yes, let's do what Trustee Middleton is suggesting. Let's explore it. But for the purposes of Trust Council, for this recommendation, let's bring before Trust Council our endorsement of the idea we should explore the role of corporate secretary and all the stuff I've said before is to explain to us as a group that we have a lot of room within the organization to adapt the existing corporate secretary position.

[3:31:41] Voice 11: So we do have that room to explore.

[3:31:43] Voice 1: Thank you. Director Marler. Yeah, thank you. So on the appointment of the officer positions. So yes, Trustee Bernardo is correct that that is a Trust Council requirement. And Trust Council has a bylaw that delegates the appointment of the officer positions to the executive committee.

[3:32:06] Voice 1: So the executive committee has, so what happens is the CAO will hire, so I was hired into this position, and then a report goes to the executive committee recommending that this position be appointed secretary under that section of the Act.

[3:32:21] Voice 1: Same thing would happen for the treasurer.

[3:32:23] Voice 1: The bylaw that council adopted also created the bylaw enforcement officer as an officer as well, and that position is also appointed.

[3:32:36] Voice 1: Under the Interpretation Act, the ability to appoint positions like officers includes the ability to appoint deputies.

[3:32:46] Voice 1: So Executive Committee also appoints the deputy secretaries, which are the three clerks that we have in each of the offices.

[3:32:54] Voice 1: And again, under the Interpretation Act, the ability to appoint also includes the ability to rescind.

[3:33:00] Voice 1: And again, so all that has been delegated by bylaw of Trust Council to the Executive Committee.

[3:33:05] Voice 1: So, Trust Council could certainly revisit that and rescind that bylaw or do it a different way, but we do follow the Act and those positions have been delegated that way, appointed, sorry, that way.

[3:33:22] Voice 1: So, it's not the CEO that's doing it, it's the elected are doing it as per the Act.

[3:33:29] Voice 1: the only other one comment while i've got the floor is that the recommendation was just based

[3:33:35] Voice 1: on the fact that the last discussion we had uh there wasn't a clear understanding of the need

[3:33:42] Voice 1: uh for the review but if you you know can articulate that and i can get that into a business

[3:33:49] Voice 1: case uh to support the business case then yeah that's totally fine so this is not uh i'm not

[3:33:56] Voice 1: trying to say don't do it i'm just saying based on what i've heard uh i can't see how this could

[3:34:02] Voice 1: be advanced um given all the other priorities that you have okay thank you

[3:34:07] Voice 15: thank you um i'm

[3:34:09] Voice 15: going to skip to um trustee stamford if i may so that we've got her well before she has to leave

[3:34:15] Voice 15: uh

[3:34:18] Trustee Stamford: okay um you're really quick i i i think part of the problem is we keep circling around because

[3:34:26] Trustee Stamford: we're we still have to articulate the problem um trustee middleton provided an outline of a position

[3:34:34] Trustee Stamford: that seems perfectly something that we can work towards um i really appreciated that there was

[3:34:42] Trustee Stamford: a comment this can be a staff position it's not outside the the staffing component it's it's

[3:34:50] Trustee Stamford: something that could be within a current setup. And that is one of my biggest concerns, because

[3:34:58] Trustee Stamford: I just didn't see how that could fit outside of how our staff is structured. So I would like to

[3:35:06] Trustee Stamford: see us work on what specifically those what areas is it that this will resolve some issues. And

[3:35:20] Trustee Stamford: advance the business case around expanding a position that encompasses this. And I would

[3:35:27] Trustee Stamford: support that. And that articulates the position. And, you know, for context, everything that was

[3:35:36] Trustee Stamford: described in Trustee Middleton's letter last night is a corporate secretary that I work with

[3:35:43] Trustee Stamford: at the regional district, which is a much more engaged staff person with the board that works

[3:35:53] Trustee Stamford: very closely in maintaining what we can and cannot do, weighted votes, which is something else you

[3:36:01] Trustee Stamford: may want to look at eventually when we look at governance. And it's quite an integral part of

[3:36:08] Trustee Stamford: of how we manage our day-to-day meetings.

[3:36:11] Trustee Stamford: So it all fit within that realm.

[3:36:14] Trustee Stamford: The distinction that I've always had concern with,

[3:36:17] Trustee Stamford: but it's outside the staff.

[3:36:21] Trustee Stamford: And that was the part I've always been concerned about.

[3:36:24] Trustee Stamford: So I think we can work with this,

[3:36:26] Trustee Stamford: but it doesn't have to be a massive legislative change.

[3:36:32] Trustee Stamford: It's just really clarifying the problems

[3:36:34] Trustee Stamford: that we're trying to resolve here.

[3:36:36] Trustee Stamford: I

[3:36:38] Voice 15: like the idea that there's an example that we can look at I didn't that's not included in it I

[3:36:44] Voice 15: was wondering about that so trustee Middleton I've got two other speakers that haven't spoken yet so

[3:36:51] Voice 15: yeah

[3:36:52] Voice 2: no I can I perhaps offer as a suggestion to help move forward here I appreciate what

[3:36:59] Voice 2: trustee Stanford said and I think also with director Marla and trustee Bernardo I think

[3:37:05] Voice 2: we already have the framework it sounds like not just have the framework we have these these exact

[3:37:10] Voice 2: this exact office it's just we need to uh flush it out more and resource it um and i think that the

[3:37:19] Voice 2: the crux of the matter is as the phrase i've used that i read the corporate secretary often

[3:37:25] Voice 2: performs the function of the conscience of the organization and in so doing has to be protected

[3:37:32] Voice 2: from either advocating something out of favor with trustees, some trustees, or frankly,

[3:37:39] Voice 2: some staff members, anyone in the organization. We're all part of the culture of the organization.

[3:37:44] Voice 2: And so as a result, he or she is hired or fired by trust counsel, not by a committee of trust

[3:37:51] Voice 2: counsel, but by the broadest body of representatives as possible, exactly the same as the CEO would be.

[3:37:57] Voice 2: So we would use even that exact structure. I think that's just the caveat that gives the secretary or the governance professional, shall we say, the independence of latitude of action to try to allow the organization and work with individuals to do the best they possibly can and be honest where that isn't happening.

[3:38:20] Voice 2: thing. So I think we're quite a long way there. And here's my bold suggestion, and perhaps it's

[3:38:26] Voice 2: rude. I suspect our new CEO probably knows a lot more about this than many of us coming from the

[3:38:34] Voice 2: PSA. And my suspicion is the PSA probably liaises with this individual in different

[3:38:39] Voice 2: agencies or parts of the provincial government quite frequently. And my suggestion would be

[3:38:45] Voice 2: perhaps he could lend a hand to basically developing the business case from the perspective

[3:38:51] Voice 2: of what he knows about how this position works or might work with the province and or with

[3:38:58] Voice 2: therefore with the trust and that that's the case we then use to take forward to justify the

[3:39:04] Voice 2: investment in further research. It might be rude of me, I apologize in advance if I put you on the

[3:39:09] Voice 2: spot there, CEO Broney, but I just think it's, I couldn't resist. I think it's probably quite

[3:39:14] Voice 2: fitting.

[3:39:20] Voice 15: CAO Broney?

[3:39:22] Voice 14: Yeah, I'll just, I'll, I thank Trustee Middleton for his vote of confidence

[3:39:27] Voice 14: in my knowledge. I would say it's a role that doesn't have widespread use within the core

[3:39:34] Voice 14: public service, the public service agency overseas. I think I'm happy to work, to work with

[3:39:41] Voice 14: members of this committee or, or Trust Council to look at what, how that role might be structured

[3:39:47] Voice 14: and whether or not it is a fit for this organization.

[3:39:49] Voice 14: I think the decision point for this particular recommendation

[3:39:53] Voice 14: is really just how do you want to frame the recommendation

[3:39:55] Voice 14: of whether or not the committee wants to recommend

[3:40:01] Voice 14: that Trust Council continue to advance this work

[3:40:03] Voice 14: and then getting into the details of how,

[3:40:06] Voice 14: and that's the conversation around the business case.

[3:40:08] Voice 14: But I think there are models to look at.

[3:40:11] Voice 14: I suspect, you know, in a nutshell,

[3:40:13] Voice 14: it really is just a question around

[3:40:14] Voice 14: we have the obligation to have a secretary.

[3:40:17] Voice 14: it's a question of what that job is and or could be if you wanted to conceive of it in some

[3:40:23] Voice 14: different way and then how it would be resourced but that's the bigger question to explore i think

[3:40:27] Voice 14: the the more pressing uh matter in this for this topic is just whether or not how you want to frame

[3:40:33] Voice 14: the recommendation to go ahead with that work or not that

[3:40:39] Voice 15: ties in with the um the business case

[3:40:41] Voice 15: in terms of doing the research that sort of puts a change in there, but not necessarily

[3:40:49] Voice 15: this recommendation. Okay, Trustee Peterson.

[3:40:56] Voice 10: Well, I couldn't have asked for a better segue,

[3:40:59] Voice 10: CAO, so I really appreciate that. I was going to say that the question before us is about the

[3:41:05] Voice 10: recommendation. And in fact, the way I'm feeling at the moment is that I don't support the

[3:41:11] Voice 10: recommendation to not advance this. And I also think that before this committee is ready to make

[3:41:22] Voice 10: that recommendation to Trust Council, that it would be helpful to at least have gone through

[3:41:30] Voice 10: the business case and either approved the further research or not. If we're going to approve the

[3:41:37] Voice 10: further research then i think we uh then i think we make the recommendation to trust council based

[3:41:43] Voice 10: on what that that research tells us um so i actually think that that um despite our

[3:41:52] Voice 10: our earlier discussion and and even perhaps points that i made i i actually don't support

[3:41:59] Voice 10: this recommendation nor its exact opposite um i think what we need to decide here is if we're

[3:42:07] Voice 10: going to put the uh the effort and money into um doing further research um then let's make

[3:42:18] Voice 10: that determination and let's not make this recommendation to um to trust council to not

[3:42:25] Voice 10: advance or to advance today so

[3:42:34] Voice 15: are you saying that um the recommendation might be trust council not

[3:42:40] Voice 15: advance recommendation eight of the governance review pending uh the outcome of the um business

[3:42:49] Voice 15: case with respect to further research something along those lines

[3:42:53] Voice 10: uh well i think that that

[3:42:57] Voice 10: that it would actually be pending the outcome of the research,

[3:43:00] Voice 10: but that would be moot if we don't get the research dollars.

[3:43:05] Voice 15: Yeah.

[3:43:08] Voice 15: Although it was just mentioned that possibly the research could be in-house

[3:43:13] Voice 15: with CAO Broney.

[3:43:22] Voice 10: Well, okay.

[3:43:23] Voice 10: Fair enough.

[3:43:24] Voice 10: I suppose that's an option that I haven't really delved into much,

[3:43:28] Voice 10: and I'm not sure,

[3:43:28] Voice 10: um notwithstanding his um earlier comment about willingness to work uh with trustees or committee

[3:43:38] Voice 10: members of whether that's um whether he has the ongoing capacity to do all of the work that's

[3:43:46] Voice 10: contemplated in the business case yeah

[3:43:48] Voice 15: trustee bernardo yeah

[3:43:53] Voice 11: wow there's a lot there um in may

[3:43:58] Voice 11: we asked staff to prepare a business case to do research into the secretariat position

[3:44:05] Voice 11: following a discussion you know really instigated by trustee middleton who was keen on this thing

[3:44:10] Voice 11: uh in doing that and ask i mean it's implicit in asking a business case be prepared that you know

[3:44:19] Voice 11: the committee was behind the idea of doing the research we wouldn't have asked for it but for

[3:44:24] Voice 11: for the fact that we had already decided looking into it

[3:44:28] Voice 11: was worth it.

[3:44:30] Voice 11: We've already reached that conclusion.

[3:44:32] Voice 11: All this item eight is about is a sense,

[3:44:36] Voice 11: in a sense is looking for a ratification

[3:44:38] Voice 11: for when we go to trust council and say, look,

[3:44:41] Voice 11: that's one of the recommendations governance report.

[3:44:44] Voice 11: We're behind it.

[3:44:45] Voice 11: We think we ask you to endorse the idea

[3:44:48] Voice 11: that we keep exploring this.

[3:44:50] Voice 11: It's basically ratifying what we already decided in May.

[3:44:54] Voice 11: And it doesn't seem that complicated to me.

[3:44:56] Voice 11: I mean, I appreciate the CEO's point that this is an unusual, would be an unusual position for most local governments.

[3:45:09] Voice 11: I don't have a problem with that.

[3:45:10] Voice 11: We are the most unusual local government there is.

[3:45:13] Voice 11: I mean, we have this federated structure, which makes things very challenging.

[3:45:18] Voice 11: And it's precisely because we're federated and the trustees meet collectively only occasionally.

[3:45:25] Voice 11: So organizing those meetings and getting the information to trustees and making sure they're properly informed so that they can make their decision is a challenge.

[3:45:38] Voice 11: And Chair Getty, you had asked before, you know, what's the problem actually we're trying to address with this?

[3:45:44] Voice 11: Well, the governance report is pretty clear about it.

[3:45:47] Voice 11: It's that the trustees are at trust council meetings are not in control of their own proceedings.

[3:45:53] Voice 11: They're not in control of the content of the meetings.

[3:45:55] Voice 11: and this secretary position the idea of it can't be separated from the re-examination of the role

[3:46:00] Voice 11: of executive committee i mean putting a corporate secretary in place who is who reports to trust

[3:46:07] Voice 11: council and essentially serves the needs of the trustees on trust council is really about putting

[3:46:13] Voice 11: a responsibility for organizing those meetings and setting those agendas uh more in the hands

[3:46:18] Voice 11: of trust council working collaboratively with executive committee not just leaving it to

[3:46:23] Voice 11: executive committee to decide you know what goes on the agenda that's part of it the other part of

[3:46:29] Voice 11: it is there's been widespread dissatisfaction with the nature of the materials that we receive

[3:46:33] Voice 11: that's an organic thing that i think has happened because this organization has grown from having a

[3:46:39] Voice 11: relatively small organization with a kind of a limited remit to recognizing how broad the remit

[3:46:45] Voice 11: actually is and that's made the work quite a bit more complex and so as a result the meeting

[3:46:51] Voice 11: meeting materials have taken on this character where we get a tremendous amount of material

[3:46:57] Voice 11: on fairly short notice. Again, it's not anybody's fault. It's a situation that we've evolved into.

[3:47:04] Voice 11: Corporate secretary role, person responsible for making sure these meetings proceed in a

[3:47:08] Voice 11: orderly and effective fashion. That person, I would think, would take over the role of

[3:47:15] Voice 11: organizing and conducting meetings. That's what the governance report talked about.

[3:47:21] Voice 11: so that's a problem that this would address and um it seems again i'm voicing support for the idea

[3:47:29] Voice 11: that we simply proceed with exploring it and i don't understand this anxiety about oh will we

[3:47:35] Voice 11: get the business case or not and all the rest of it i mean this is about i just see it as ratifying

[3:47:40] Voice 11: a decision we'd already made back in may and finally um with respect and i'd like if it's

[3:47:46] Voice 11: possible for Director Martin to clarify this. I appreciate the delegation of this

[3:47:55] Voice 11: appointment power to the position is by way of bylaw. But the point I was trying to make is that

[3:48:04] Voice 11: in effect, because it's been delegated to the positions are assigned to the position holder

[3:48:12] Voice 11: holder appointed to those two director positions, in effect, that puts the CEO in the driver's seat

[3:48:17] Voice 11: of appointing, of making an appointment that the act specifically says it should be made

[3:48:23] Voice 11: by trust counsel. And when I look at, and perhaps the director can explain this to me,

[3:48:28] Voice 11: but when I look at the delegation power that's given to trust counsel in the act under section

[3:48:33] Voice 11: 10, it says, well, you can delegate any of the powers under eight or a bunch of powers under

[3:48:37] Voice 11: under 8 and 9. It doesn't say anything about Section 17.

[3:48:41] Voice 11: So that's where my reservation is, and I would appreciate if Director Marla could address that

[3:48:45] Voice 11: narrow point. Thank you.

[3:48:47] Voice 1: Yeah, thank you. If I may, through the

[3:48:49] Voice 1: chair, respond to that. The delegation

[3:48:53] Voice 1: is legal. I did look into that because I saw the same thing, but there

[3:48:57] Voice 1: is a provision to allow that delegation. So I will find that

[3:49:01] Voice 1: link for you and provide it to you so you can see it.

[3:49:04] Voice 1: um and it so yeah the executive committee does work on behalf of trust council executive committee

[3:49:12] Voice 1: could choose not to appoint um staff by name but sorry it's not i'll say it again the executive

[3:49:21] Voice 1: committee is not appointing by position they're appointing by name so when that person leaves

[3:49:27] Voice 1: that position and somebody else comes in the executive committee then also has to reappoint

[3:49:32] Voice 1: that position so they can reconsider whether that is the correct person for it or they may decide

[3:49:38] Voice 1: somebody else in the organization is better suited to do that particular role so it is totally up to

[3:49:46] Voice 1: the executive committee as per the bylaw staff just make recommendations as we would for council

[3:49:52] Voice 1: if council was took that on so you can rescind the bylaw it's bylaw number three it was adopted

[3:50:00] Voice 1: in 1990, so it's fairly old. You can either rescind it, you can leave it as is, or you can

[3:50:05] Voice 1: update it. So it's something you might want to look at as part of the review. Thank you.

[3:50:13] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick.

[3:50:16] Trustee Patrick: Well, thank you, David. I'll segue on your comments. Like so many things,

[3:50:20] Trustee Patrick: our policies are so old, and even the definition of who the corporate secretary is. What is the

[3:50:24] Trustee Patrick: job description? I think I was on Trust Council and I've appointed corporate secretary. There's

[3:50:28] Trustee Patrick: no job description. We just appoint you. So we need to update, understand, review what is this

[3:50:35] Trustee Patrick: role documented so we all know what it does and what its responsibilities are. I'd also like to

[3:50:41] Trustee Patrick: point out the governance report in the land use section. There's a recommendation that says

[3:50:46] Trustee Patrick: planners should not be participating in meetings as de facto corporate officers. Their role should

[3:50:51] Trustee Patrick: be focused on planning matters. So this also applies to this local trust committees. How do

[3:50:56] Trustee Patrick: of these corporate officers support us in our local trust committee work which i would say is

[3:51:01] Trustee Patrick: so important we keep talking only about trust council and we you know we have all these trust

[3:51:07] Trustee Patrick: committees that have the same needs um varying needs um so yes i support refreshing and reviewing

[3:51:13] Trustee Patrick: and deciding and updating what this role should be um absolutely rusty

[3:51:22] Voice 15: peterson yeah

[3:51:24] Voice 10: i just wanted

[3:51:25] Voice 10: wanted to clarify um i'm not suggesting that we need to um put off the work i'm suggesting that

[3:51:33] Voice 10: in terms of this committee making a recommendation to trust council on advancing or not advancing

[3:51:39] Voice 10: recommendation eight let's do the research and then we and then we can make the decision to

[3:51:46] Voice 10: recommend or not recommend that's my position i support the research i support spending the money

[3:51:52] Voice 10: if need be let's do that but i'm not comfortable either recommending we don't or recommending we

[3:51:59] Voice 10: do until we've got that information in front of us period so

[3:52:06] Voice 15: how do we word this recommendation

[3:52:11] Voice 15: trustee bernardo this is multiple times speaking on the same issue

[3:52:15] Voice 11: yes i know um if other people

[3:52:18] Voice 11: want to speak ahead of me they're welcome to do so um the uh i i don't i'm struggling a bit here

[3:52:27] Voice 11: because I don't actually think there's a lot of daylight

[3:52:28] Voice 11: between what Trustee Peterson is saying

[3:52:30] Voice 11: and frankly what Trustee Middleton was saying,

[3:52:33] Voice 11: which is the

[3:52:38] Voice 13: opposite

[3:52:40] Voice 11: of what the staff is saying here

[3:52:43] Voice 11: isn't that we recommend that a corporate secretary position be adopted.

[3:52:49] Voice 11: It's that Trust Council requests staff to review,

[3:52:57] Voice 11: it may be in conjunction with the Governance Committee,

[3:52:59] Voice 11: but requests staff to review the function of the corporate secretary.

[3:53:01] Voice 11: secretary. We have that position. It exists. That's the tenor of, let's remember, we're not

[3:53:08] Voice 11: talking about separate things here. We're talking about what's in the governance report. And at the

[3:53:14] Voice 11: right moment, maybe it's soon, I'd like to make a motion just simply requesting that staff review

[3:53:18] Voice 11: the function of the corporate secretary per recommendation eight of the governance report.

[3:53:22] Voice 11: That doesn't mean adopting it. It means doing the research that Trustee Peterson wants done.

[3:53:30] Voice 11: done. That's what the point of the funding request is, to do the research. So it seems to me we're

[3:53:36] Voice 11: actually kind of in agreement, but we're kind of like going in circles around what each of us are

[3:53:41] Voice 11: saying. Thank you.

[3:53:42] Voice 10: If I could, I'd just say yes, Trustee Bernardo, that's what I was trying to

[3:53:47] Voice 10: say. We are in agreement. Yes, thank you.

[3:53:54] Voice 2: Are we, and this question, are we, to follow up Trustee

[3:53:58] Voice 2: Trustee Bernardo's point and the preamble to a possible motion,

[3:54:03] Voice 2: would that motion not be the one that supports the business case in 7.2,

[3:54:10] Voice 2: that we actually request the funds to get the research done?

[3:54:13] Voice 2: Or is there a precursor motion to that that, Trustee Bernardo, you had in mind?

[3:54:19] Voice 11: I have something in mind.

[3:54:21] Voice 2: Okay.

[3:54:24] Voice 15: Anybody else?

[3:54:27] Voice 15: We've got a proposed motion on the floor, I believe.

[3:54:29] Voice 15: Trust Council requests staff to review the function of the Corporate Secretary according to Recommendation 8 of the Governance Review.

[3:54:41] Voice 11: Well, the exact wording I had in mind is pretty simple, that Trust Council requests staff review the function of the Corporate Secretary per Recommendation 8 of the Governance Report or Review.

[3:54:53] Voice 15: I thought that was what I just said, but okay.

[3:54:56] Voice 15: So for this portion, is there a seconder to that motion?

[3:55:02] Voice 15: Trustee Peterson.

[3:55:03] Voice 15: Anderson and Stamford.

[3:55:04] Voice 15: Okay.

[3:55:09] Voice 15: All right.

[3:55:13] Voice 15: So any more discussion?

[3:55:19] Voice 15: Don't see any hands raised.

[3:55:20] Voice 15: Then all those in favor.

[3:55:29] Voice 15: Any opposed?

[3:55:32] Voice 15: Hands down, first of all.

[3:55:37] Voice 15: Trustee Stamford, your hand has come up late.

[3:55:39] Voice 15: Is that a for or against?

[3:55:45] Voice 15: Where'd she go?

[3:55:48] Voice 11: Well, she had to leave.

[3:55:49] Voice 11: She may have departed.

[3:55:50] Voice 15: Oh.

[3:55:51] Voice 15: All right.

[3:55:56] Voice 15: I'm...

[3:55:57] Voice 15: the only one opposed to this that carries all right so we're up to recommendation nine

[3:56:16] Voice 15: expanding the trust council membership um the first one is first nations and the second one

[3:56:25] Voice 15: is recommendation 10 is provincial representation very similar discussion um

[3:56:34] Voice 15: both in the comments, I guess it's staff comments,

[3:56:40] Voice 15: about the recommendations for this body to Trust Council.

[3:56:49] Voice 15: The only comment that I had with respect to number nine

[3:56:52] Voice 15: was the wording of,

[3:56:58] Voice 15: under report commentary on recommendation,

[3:57:01] Voice 15: Trust Council does not include trustees who represent First Nation.

[3:57:04] Voice 15: And I would, that's a reality, but I think that it's, there's no mechanism to allow for trustees who represent First Nations, per se, but they could, and they could run as local trustees without a direct representation of First Nation.

[3:57:32] Voice 15: So, a

[3:57:35] Voice 11: point of order?

[3:57:37] Voice 11: Yes.

[3:57:37] Voice 15: us?

[3:57:38] Voice 11: Sorry to interrupt, Chair Getty. I just received a text from Trustee Stamford, just out

[3:57:45] Voice 11: of an abundance of clarity. She said, I'm reading a text verbatim. If there was any question and I

[3:57:51] Voice 11: was in favor of that last motion, I had to leave.

[3:57:54] Voice 15: Okay. Thanks. I

[3:57:56] Voice 11: think

[3:57:59] Voice 15: it was recorded as myself

[3:58:00] Voice 15: being the only one voting against it. Recommendation nine. How do we want to word this

[3:58:09] Voice 15: recommendation not advance recommendation nine pending the outcome of the request to the province

[3:58:18] Voice 15: trustee bernardo uh

[3:58:21] Voice 11: i'm i'm afraid i'm not going to be that helpful in terms of wording i just

[3:58:23] Voice 11: wanted to um go to the substantive point uh in that i think both recommendations nine and ten

[3:58:32] Voice 11: are on very firm ground in pointing out that um these are both items that would require

[3:58:37] Voice 11: require legislative change. Unlike the corporate secretary thing, there's no room there to sort of

[3:58:43] Voice 11: tweak the margins or to sort of amend. There just isn't room for this type of representation. And I

[3:58:49] Voice 11: think the staff is quite right. This is something that is, if we get the provincial review, is

[3:58:57] Voice 11: something that will need to be addressed in that framework. But we just aren't, we don't have the

[3:59:01] Voice 11: jurisdiction to deal with it now. So I'm in firm support of both of these recommendations. As to

[3:59:07] Voice 11: of the wording, I leave that to others. Thank you.

[3:59:13] Voice 15: That was our conclusion very early on when we did

[3:59:16] Voice 15: our first analysis of the report. And I can't find the matrix right now, but that's

[3:59:26] Voice 15: off the matrix in terms of us not having the jurisdiction. But should there be mention of the

[3:59:32] Voice 15: the agreements that we've got

[3:59:35] Voice 15: and the efforts that we're making

[3:59:39] Voice 15: in terms of including First Nations comments.

[3:59:44] Voice 11: Can we ask staff to simply include that material

[3:59:47] Voice 11: in the explanatory part of the revised

[3:59:50] Voice 11: or of the information that goes to Trust Council?

[3:59:55] Voice 15: So that would be our recommendation to the staff

[3:59:57] Voice 15: with respect to the background information.

[4:00:00] Voice 15: um how do we feel about these um does everybody agree with that statement that we recommend to

[4:00:07] Voice 15: staff that they um supplement or add to the background information the steps that we are

[4:00:14] Voice 15: taking to um involve as much as we possibly can first nations trustee middleton i'm just

[4:00:27] Voice 2: wondering if this is a most powerful left as is that this is our um request to the province

[4:00:34] Voice 2: as part of our desire to see regulatory change

[4:00:40] Voice 2: and that giving it any caveats is really unnecessary.

[4:00:46] Voice 2: If we believe in First Nations representation

[4:00:49] Voice 2: at the Trust Council table,

[4:00:50] Voice 2: we don't have to then point and say,

[4:00:52] Voice 2: look what we're doing.

[4:00:53] Voice 2: We're obviously making a strong statement

[4:00:55] Voice 2: that there should be broader representation

[4:00:57] Voice 2: and I think it should just be left to stand

[4:00:59] Voice 2: in the context that we can't move on this

[4:01:02] Voice 2: unless the province does.

[4:01:04] Voice 15: trustee peterson um

[4:01:09] Voice 10: if we wanted to add anything it could be at the beginning of the recommendation

[4:01:14] Voice 10: um something on the order of recognizing um recognizing that this is outside of our

[4:01:23] Voice 10: legislative purview uh the recommendation trust council will be to not advance it something like

[4:01:30] Voice 10: that if it's felt that's necessary great let's add that but i don't think we need to um add a

[4:01:37] Voice 10: a lot of background. Just make it clear. We can't do it. It's not up to us to do it.

[4:01:43] Voice 15: I think that some sort of clarification would be helpful in terms of the public audience.

[4:01:49] Voice 15: Trustee Luckham?

[4:01:52] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, you know, this is an interesting conversation. And I just want to

[4:01:57] Trustee Luckham: share with you that we received significant criticism recently about advancing the letter

[4:02:10] Trustee Luckham: to the province. A couple of other issues from Bowen Island Municipality to start with. You all

[4:02:22] Trustee Luckham: remember Mayor Leonard came to council and said, how come you didn't consult with us on this?

[4:02:27] Trustee Luckham: And of course, we've also had a lot of criticism from the community, but why didn't you consult

[4:02:31] Trustee Luckham: with us on this? And this is significant legislative change that for sure the province

[4:02:37] Trustee Luckham: is going to ask us, how much consultation have you done on this? So just consider that before

[4:02:44] Trustee Luckham: advancing this too far, what conversations you've had with other agencies and community.

[4:02:54] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo?

[4:02:57] Voice 11: Well, I'm afraid I have to respond to Trustee

[4:03:01] Voice 11: Whatcom's point. I'll try to do that very briefly. It is not a given, in my view,

[4:03:08] Voice 11: that the consultation process didn't proceed as it should have given the wording of the policies.

[4:03:14] Voice 11: I appreciate that there were objections to it by both from Bowen Island and the Conservancy,

[4:03:20] Voice 11: but simply because they have those objections doesn't mean they're sound and they're grounded.

[4:03:27] Voice 11: The fact of the matter is their request has gone to the province. It's in process.

[4:03:31] Voice 11: That was a decision of Trust Council and it's incumbent on all of us to abide by it.

[4:03:36] Voice 11: And I think in terms of dealing with the immediate matter at hand with this recommendation number nine, the actual language that is reproduced in the memo that comes from the commentary from the report is actually pretty strong.

[4:03:52] Voice 11: I mean, it says Trust Council must now both prepare for and encourage the advancement of the co-governance proposition as it applies to both Trust Council and LTCs.

[4:04:02] Voice 11: It's an immediate priority.

[4:04:03] Voice 11: Take steps, consult, et cetera, et cetera.

[4:04:05] Voice 11: It's all there.

[4:04:07] Voice 11: And I would think that if we make any changes in order to sort of provide greater clarity to the public as to where we're coming from, that it might be in amending and just leave it to staff to do the work smithing that we don't waste our time doing it.

[4:04:22] Voice 11: But amending the language that immediately below that says, well, the actions taken to date right now to the council sent a request to the province for review of its legislation.

[4:04:33] Voice 11: And then it says, well, not specified in that ask.

[4:04:36] Voice 11: It's possible the problem could continue.

[4:04:38] Voice 11: It's going to hang

[4:04:38] Voice 11: up on the model.

[4:04:39] Voice 13: Yeah, yeah.

[4:04:41] Voice 13: It's a black problem.

[4:04:43] Voice 13: That'd be good.

[4:04:44] Voice 13: Thank you.

[4:04:45] Voice 13: All right, Chair Luckham.

[4:04:46] Voice 15: Yeah, thanks.

[4:04:48] Voice 13: Go ahead.

[4:04:50] Voice 11: I think if we got rid of that second sentence and replaced it with some statement to the effect that it's explicit,

[4:05:05] Voice 11: actually in that letter. I'm

[4:05:08] Voice 15: sorry, which is the second sentence

[4:05:10] Voice 15: you're referring to?

[4:05:11] Voice 11: The second sentence at page 23.

[4:05:14] Voice 11: Yes, where it says on top of page

[4:05:18] Voice 12: 23, and

[4:05:20] Voice 11: it says

[4:05:22] Voice 11: while not specified, take that out and just make a statement to the effect

[4:05:26] Voice 11: that it's explicit in the letter to the province and it's clear intention

[4:05:30] Voice 11: whatever language staff thinks that they can work with, that

[4:05:33] Voice 11: that First Nations, or sorry, the interests of Indigenous governing bodies and addressing the

[4:05:42] Voice 11: interests of Indigenous governance body is a highest priority for the trust, because that's

[4:05:49] Voice 11: what the letter says, and that a review of the Islands Trust governance model, although we didn't

[4:05:57] Voice 11: make any specific asks, it is, in a sense, the whole thing is an ask that the governance model

[4:06:01] Voice 11: to be reviewed. So if we could change the language along those lines, I think it follows up in what

[4:06:07] Voice 11: the report says about how urgent the matter is. And then the action taken to date is basically

[4:06:13] Voice 11: Trust Council recognizes the urgency, which is why we sent that darn letter to the province and why

[4:06:19] Voice 11: dealing with reconciliation is the number one thing. And that, you know, we really emphasize

[4:06:25] Voice 11: in that letter how important it is to engage First Nations in the consultation that is part

[4:06:31] Voice 11: Part of the review of the legislation itself.

[4:06:34] Voice 11: So I think that would be a pretty powerful explanation as to why it's not necessary to go into this.

[4:06:42] Voice 11: And, you know, because, A, it's the province's jurisdiction, not ours.

[4:06:46] Voice 11: But, B, we're pleading to the province to look at that very thing.

[4:06:50] Voice 12: All right.

[4:06:50] Voice 11: Now, obviously, I've said in a million words something that probably should be said in 25.

[4:06:55] Voice 11: But that's what I'm suggesting for that section.

[4:06:57] Voice 15: So the recommendation here is with respect to these two recommendations of the governance review that Trust Council not advance recommendation nine pending the outcome of the request of the province to review the governance structure, which covers what you've got.

[4:07:19] Voice 15: It doesn't have all the emphasis.

[4:07:21] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick.

[4:07:21] Voice 15: trick maybe

[4:07:23] Trustee Patrick: it's um instead of having it read in the negative it could be that uh you know trust

[4:07:30] Trustee Patrick: council has advanced this work by making the request of the province to review so it's just

[4:07:37] Trustee Patrick: a statement you know and then you could say this

[4:07:41] Voice 15: is a recommendation to trust council with respect

[4:07:45] Trustee Patrick: to

[4:07:45] Voice 15: what to do with the recommendations of the review so it's not a statement of what actions

[4:07:50] Voice 15: that have been taken well

[4:07:53] Voice 11: actually it is i mean that's the preamble yeah but that's right and

[4:07:57] Voice 11: all i'm suggesting is that we change the words of the preamble to make clear why we're not

[4:08:01] Voice 11: recommending that we advance it i mean like in the letter we say we don't have the power to

[4:08:07] Voice 15: don't repeat it got it so then we're do we accept this recommendation and make

[4:08:17] Voice 15: further recommendations to staff to supplement the preamble yes

[4:08:25] Voice 11: at least that's my position

[4:08:28] Voice 11: all

[4:08:29] Voice 15: right so let's the recommendation then is that trust council not advance recommendation

[4:08:34] Voice 15: nine of the 22 governance report pending the outcome of the request of the province to review

[4:08:39] Voice 15: the island's trust governance structure so i'll move that do we have a seconder

[4:08:47] Voice 11: i second

[4:08:48] Voice 15: bernardo any more discussion not seeing any hands raised then let's vote

[4:08:56] Voice 15: all those in favor all right oh okay so that's a physical hand up for trustee harris

[4:09:16] Voice 15: lower your hands i think that's all of us that are here at this point

[4:09:23] Voice 15: okay so the

[4:09:24] Voice 15: supplementary

[4:09:24] Voice 15: motion was

[4:09:25] Voice 15: that

[4:09:29] Voice 1: Evan

[4:09:29] Voice 1: Maycher

[4:09:30] Voice 1: yep

[4:09:31] Voice 1: yeah I

[4:09:32] Voice 1: don't think

[4:09:32] Voice 1: Trustee

[4:09:33] Voice 1: Bernardo

[4:09:33] Voice 1: quite finished

[4:09:34] Voice 1: the sentence

[4:09:35] Voice 1: so I just

[4:09:36] Voice 1: added a few

[4:09:36] Voice 1: words to

[4:09:37] Voice 1: finish the

[4:09:37] Voice 1: sentence

[4:09:38] Voice 1: you might

[4:09:39] Voice 1: want to

[4:09:39] Voice 1: reword that

[4:09:40] Voice 1: so can you

[4:09:41] Voice 1: have a look

[4:09:41] Voice 1: at that

[4:09:41] Voice 1: maybe

[4:09:41] Voice 1: listen in

[4:09:43] Voice 15: the letter

[4:09:43] Voice 15: to the

[4:09:44] Voice 15: province

[4:09:44] Voice 15: that the

[4:09:44] Voice 15: interest of

[4:09:45] Voice 15: indigenous

[4:09:45] Voice 15: governing

[4:09:46] Voice 15: bodies is

[4:09:47] Voice 15: the highest

[4:09:47] Voice 15: priority for

[4:09:48] Voice 15: the trust

[4:09:48] Voice 15: and a

[4:09:48] Voice 15: review of

[4:09:49] Voice 15: the trust

[4:09:49] Voice 15: governance

[4:09:49] Voice 15: should address

[4:09:50] Voice 15: this

[4:09:50] Voice 15: um

[4:09:53] Voice 11: uh the one thing i would say is it's it's it is explicit in the letter to uh the province that

[4:10:03] Voice 11: addressing the interest interests yep

[4:10:08] Voice 15: and

[4:10:11] Voice 11: that should do the that should do the job

[4:10:13] Voice 11: all

[4:10:19] Voice 15: right we got a seconder for that trustee peterson any more discussion all those in favor

[4:10:33] Voice 15: that's six of us okay that's unanimous same uh situation with 10 the um slightly different in

[4:10:50] Voice 15: terms of provincial representation where'd it go trustee peterson yeah

[4:11:08] Voice 10: i think this is a bit

[4:11:09] Voice 10: simpler i think we can just advance it as it's as it's stated here any

[4:11:16] Voice 15: more discussion all right

[4:11:21] Voice 15: All right. So motion by Peterson, seconded by Bernardo.

[4:11:28] Voice 15: Any more discussion? I already asked that. I'm repeating myself.

[4:11:32] Voice 15: Raise your hands if you agree. All those in favor.

[4:11:42] Voice 15: Rusty Harris?

[4:11:50] Voice 15: Abstaining.

[4:11:51] Voice 15: Okay. Five, one abstention. So that's, that is unanimous.

[4:12:00] Voice 15: Number 11, adoption of the comprehensive multi-year planning document.

[4:12:05] Voice 15: And the recommendation is that Trust Council request and staff updates Trust Council policies to incorporate corporate plan planning framework to operations and budgeting processes in relation to Recommendation 11.

[4:12:27] Voice 15: I had added the word recommend in there.

[4:12:29] Voice 15: So request to have update and recommend to Trust Council policies to incorporate.

[4:12:35] Voice 15: and we get some help in terms of moving that one forward from staff that was a big part of

[4:12:45] Voice 15: our consideration when we were doing that um cao hiring trustee

[4:12:59] Voice 10: peterson chair getty uh

[4:13:02] Voice 10: go ahead and move it and i'll second it

[4:13:04] Voice 15: okay i'll move that um trust council request staff

[4:13:09] Voice 15: update and recommend trust council policies to incorporate the corporate plan planning framework

[4:13:14] Voice 15: and its operations and budgeting processes

[4:13:16] Voice 15: in relation to Recommendation 11 of the 2022 Governance Report.

[4:13:24] Voice 10: I second the motion.

[4:13:26] Voice 15: Any more discussion?

[4:13:28] Voice 15: All right.

[4:13:33] Voice 15: All those in favor?

[4:13:43] Voice 15: Trustee Harris, what's happening?

[4:13:54] Voice 15: All right.

[4:13:55] Voice 15: So we've got five in favor.

[4:13:57] Voice 15: Lower your hands.

[4:13:58] Voice 15: All those opposed?

[4:14:02] Voice 15: All right.

[4:14:03] Voice 15: One abstention.

[4:14:05] Voice 15: Carried.

[4:14:06] Voice 15: Thank you.

[4:14:09] Voice 15: Number 12.

[4:14:10] Voice 15: So we're getting into another topic area called Advocacy and Recommendation 12 about communications and engagement.

[4:14:22] Voice 15: And the recommendation is that Trust Council request staff work with Executive Committee to review and update Trust Council advocacy policies as per Recommendation 12.

[4:14:39] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick?

[4:14:40] Voice 15: This

[4:14:43] Trustee Patrick: is another one. I think the recommendation is muddled and it's not clear. I think they're confusing a bunch of stuff. And I think we confuse a bunch of stuff when we do it as well. There's communications, there's engagements, and there is government relations. And I think we try to mix everything up into what we call advocacy.

[4:15:08] Trustee Patrick: advocacy. So I think this issue is a lot more than just simply going in and cleaning up our

[4:15:14] Trustee Patrick: policies. I think we've got to really sort out and make sense out of what we're doing. Our, you know,

[4:15:21] Trustee Patrick: our policy seems to be anyone that comes in and asks us for something, we go, okay, and we often

[4:15:25] Trustee Patrick: do it. You know, we need to have a far more structured approach, and we also have to have

[4:15:30] Trustee Patrick: deliberate governance relationship building, which is different from public engagement on

[4:15:38] Trustee Patrick: the activities we do, which is different than communications.

[4:15:42] Voice 15: Yeah, one of the things that I,

[4:15:44] Voice 15: one word that I added in terms of the report commentary and the recommendations, the last

[4:15:50] Voice 15: paragraph, communications and consultation strategy would identify specific strategic

[4:15:55] Voice 15: And I think that if we got into the strategy around all of those issues, whether it's communications engagement or intergovernmental, that it would be helpful if we had some sort of a strategic plan or suggestions in terms of how to separate what to focus on, who to do it.

[4:16:17] Voice 15: So, if that is part of the request for staff to work with executive committee, is that the appropriate committee and workload in terms of recommending that they work with executive?

[4:16:41] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick?

[4:16:44] Trustee Patrick: I would say yes, but the development of a communication strategy and an engagement strategy has been a piece of work that's been on the table forever.

[4:16:51] Trustee Patrick: ever. I think there are some drafts and things that are coming out, but it's not making it to

[4:16:57] Trustee Patrick: our tables. And this is a major area that needs work. Like I said, you know, this housing survey

[4:17:04] Trustee Patrick: came out recently and nobody on our island, everyone thinks it's the OCP project, you know,

[4:17:09] Trustee Patrick: so we're not communicating basic things and we've got to get better at it fast. So I think this

[4:17:15] Trustee Patrick: needs to be broken down and not just somebody go fix some policies. I think there's a whole

[4:17:20] Trustee Patrick: lot more thinking behind it sorry

[4:17:24] Voice 15: trustee middleton thank

[4:17:29] Voice 2: you excuse me um yeah echoing

[4:17:32] Voice 2: trustee patrick we're now getting into obviously the the it doesn't mean it's less important but

[4:17:40] Voice 2: in terms of sort of his prioritization it just ended up further down the list by simple fact that

[4:17:46] Voice 2: what comes before is large a lot of work clearly would strain an organization of this size and

[4:17:54] Voice 2: And I agree with her that echoing the governance report,

[4:17:58] Voice 2: they were after a complete rethink about the definition of advocacy

[4:18:02] Voice 2: and how it's applied and how it's linked to the strategic objectives

[4:18:06] Voice 2: that come out of the corporate plan in the Islands Trust

[4:18:10] Voice 2: and then how in terms of those activities are measured

[4:18:14] Voice 2: and reformulated based on their effectiveness.

[4:18:18] Voice 2: So it does a lot of work here.

[4:18:21] Voice 2: So, I mean, leaving it as Stan, I think is fine, but we might want to indicate that this is the expectation that this kind of has to take its place in the line and the work on the corporate planning and alignment with strategic objectives has to come first.

[4:18:40] Voice 2: This

[4:18:44] Voice 15: was one that we put into the matrix in terms of important but not urgent, just because of the resource question, I believe.

[4:18:55] Voice 15: So how do we, if the question is that it's important and we're not doing a particularly good job on it, but we're stretched, how do we move it?

[4:19:08] Voice 15: Director Marler.

[4:19:09] Voice 15: yeah

[4:19:10] Voice 1: i just wanted to point out in the rfd that is proposed to go from you to trust council via

[4:19:18] Voice 1: the committee of the whole all of these recommendations here which i'll update after

[4:19:22] Voice 1: this discussion are included but there's also a recommendation near the end that recommends a

[4:19:28] Voice 1: priority for the three big ones that are going to take a lot of time so you might want to look

[4:19:33] Voice 1: at that rfd towards the end and ask yourself do you agree with the suggestion from the staff or

[4:19:38] Voice 1: would you have a different priority order thanks

[4:19:42] Voice 15: all right so then um should we just deal with this

[4:19:50] Voice 15: recommendation and then um play with the priority question later trustee patrick i'm just wondering

[4:19:59] Trustee Patrick: in the commentary you know do we or do we add i don't know where we would add it because it it

[4:20:04] Trustee Patrick: stresses here that it's just basically communications and engagement and so i think

[4:20:10] Trustee Patrick: specific government relations or stakeholder relations is a very different activity

[4:20:17] Trustee Patrick: and it's not mentioned here so you would add those words i'd like to see those words or whatever

[4:20:30] Trustee Patrick: would be appropriate all

[4:20:35] Voice 15: right so then we're expanding on the recommendation to include that

[4:20:40] Voice 15: commentary and you want to add the words engagement with

[4:20:46] Trustee Patrick: stakeholders

[4:20:48] Trustee Patrick: I think it's government relations, government-slash-stakeholder relations,

[4:20:53] Trustee Patrick: or I don't first, and maybe it's intergovernment.

[4:20:55] Trustee Patrick: I don't know what the proper word is.

[4:20:57] Trustee Patrick: I'd be looking to staff for advice on what would be the correct term today.

[4:21:04] Trustee Patrick: Any comments, Director Marler?

[4:21:07] Voice 1: I'm not great on that.

[4:21:08] Voice 1: I think we understand what you mean if you say government relations.

[4:21:11] Voice 1: We take that to be all governments, like any level, local to provincial to First Nations.

[4:21:18] Voice 1: so

[4:21:23] Voice 15: then updated policy would refresh the approach to advocacy communication engagement by trust

[4:21:28] Voice 15: council with other stakeholders does

[4:21:36] Trustee Patrick: that work well it's they're distinctly different things

[4:21:40] Trustee Patrick: so it's not just okay stakeholders and local governments yeah well

[4:21:44] Voice 15: i mean it's communications

[4:21:45] Trustee Patrick: engagement and government you know relations they are three different things yes they

[4:21:52] Trustee Patrick: have different components come together at different times but we need different strata

[4:21:56] Trustee Patrick: three strategies not one okay

[4:22:01] Voice 15: so after engagement then uh government relations

[4:22:05] Voice 15: comma by trust council and ensure the work is relevant trustee bernardo sorry your hand's been

[4:22:10] Voice 15: out yeah

[4:22:12] Voice 11: i would just comment that the reason the recommendation comes to us like this because it's

[4:22:16] Voice 11: staff necessarily has to deal with the governance report as it was drafted and again this is one of

[4:22:23] Voice 11: the things that i hope comes out when we discuss this at the trust council level committee of the

[4:22:27] Voice 11: the whole, which is that, you know, there's, there's, there's interesting and challenging

[4:22:32] Voice 11: and useful stuff in the governance report. And then there's a lot of woolly stuff that is actually

[4:22:35] Voice 11: a little hard to understand. And I think trustee Patrick is quite right to zero in on this in the

[4:22:40] Voice 11: sense that this is pretty general, you know, it's just like the strategy focus on two goals,

[4:22:47] Voice 11: one of which is strengthening the brand by increasing awareness and support relevant

[4:22:52] Voice 11: stakeholders, influencers, policymakers, and decision makers. Well, that's okay. That's from

[4:22:57] Voice 11: 100 000 feet that's but that's not helpful in terms of operationalizing improving advocacy

[4:23:04] Voice 11: uh and uh i i think trustee i i you know we can't change the report commentary commentary

[4:23:10] Voice 11: uh it is what it is it's what they said so but i i do agree with trustee patrick that

[4:23:15] Voice 11: we should um amend the recommendation to clarify exactly what we're talking about that there are

[4:23:21] Voice 11: these different categories and they are different things here it's not just about having a pleasant

[4:23:25] Voice 11: communication strategy with all these different bodies advocacy with privilege

[4:23:29] Voice 11: other governmental units or like for example principally regional districts

[4:23:34] Voice 11: in the province I mean we should probably be explicit in the

[4:23:39] Voice 11: recommendation so that when this does goes to Trust Council Trust Council

[4:23:43] Voice 11: knows exactly what we're talking about about what we want staff to do that

[4:23:48] Voice 11: because it's this vagueness of the language and again that's not that's all

[4:23:52] Voice 11: on the staff that's on the report um that leads to uh you know sometimes circular discussion so

[4:23:57] Voice 11: i'm all for beefing up the recommendation to be more um to draw distinctions and to be more

[4:24:03] Voice 11: explicit in doing so thank you

[4:24:05] Voice 15: okay so we've got a recommendation uh doesn't sound like there's any

[4:24:09] Voice 15: um problems with that um and we've got um an amendment in addition to the uh once

[4:24:17] Voice 15: one sentence that follows that in terms of commentary to add um government relations

[4:24:24] Voice 15: right so um who's going to move that one i'll move it i forgot a seconder

[4:24:37] Voice 15: thank you trustee middleton all right any more discussion trustee pat um

[4:24:51] Trustee Patrick: we keep only talking

[4:24:53] Trustee Patrick: about trust you know government relations by trust council um i think and how do we and its

[4:24:59] Trustee Patrick: bodies and local trust committees. We keep forgetting that we have government relations

[4:25:05] Trustee Patrick: that we have to do as well. So that's my only concern is we keep saying trust council, trust

[4:25:11] Trustee Patrick: council, trust council. It does that absolutely. That to me doesn't imply that we are separate

[4:25:18] Trustee Patrick: corporate bodies.

[4:25:19] Voice 15: Okay. So that is implicit, isn't it? In terms of we're asking council to ask staff,

[4:25:25] Voice 15: we're going to this community of the whole meeting and we're asking council to endorse

[4:25:29] Voice 15: these recommendations staff to work with executive committee to review and update

[4:25:34] Voice 15: trust council advocacy policies and that's where that comes in in terms of figuring out something

[4:25:39] Voice 15: for local trust councils right that's the fine print of that work trustee bernardo uh in terms

[4:25:48] Voice 11: of wording uh this is directed to trustee patrick and her discomfort with the potential

[4:25:55] Voice 11: potential Naranosa Trust Council. The term trust body is a defined term. It encompasses

[4:26:01] Voice 11: everything, local trust committees, the trust council, the ITC. So I'm wondering if that would

[4:26:10] Voice 11: work, if the resolution was worded that executive committee review and update trust body advocacy

[4:26:18] Voice 11: advocacy policies. Is

[4:26:26] Voice 15: that satisfactory, Trustee Patrick? Yes. Okay. So is that in the original

[4:26:37] Voice 15: recommendation?

[4:26:40] Voice 1: If I may, Chair? No, this was the preamble. Yep. So if you want to amend the

[4:26:47] Voice 1: original resolution to

[4:26:49] Voice 15: include that. Trust bodies, advocacy policies.

[4:26:54] Voice 11: Yeah, it's not the world's

[4:26:56] Voice 11: greatest grammar but you know this is

[4:26:58] Voice 8: what you're suggesting here sorry

[4:27:14] Voice 1: you've been seconded that

[4:27:15] Voice 1: should really have been an amendment um

[4:27:21] Voice 15: i'll take it as a friendly amendment

[4:27:24] Voice 15: and trustee middleton before you go off is that uh agreeable amendment okay

[4:27:31] Voice 15: any more discussion let's have a vote all of those in favor

[4:27:43] Voice 15: there's six of us good uh unanimous okay page 25 of the agenda almost coming up the end number 13

[4:27:55] Voice 15: management alignment with trust council uh

[4:27:58] Voice 1: sorry for me chair sorry yeah

[4:28:01] Voice 1: did you want to address

[4:28:02] Voice 1: the um preamble or just leave it as is in the report so the language

[4:28:08] Voice 1: on the screen was oh sorry

[4:28:10] Voice 15: sorry that was the recommendation to from yeah so we're going to include that in the recommendation

[4:28:18] Voice 15: to trust council it's

[4:28:20] Voice 1: just if i may that's the direction to staff to update the the information

[4:28:25] Voice 1: to include that language instead of what's in there right now to add government relations

[4:28:29] Voice 1: i'll

[4:28:30] Trustee Patrick: make that motion okay now

[4:28:36] Voice 15: trustee middleton you had a comment with respect to

[4:28:42] Voice 15: Sorry. Won't you comment, Trustee Middleton? Or is he gone with his hand left out? Oops.

[4:28:54] Voice 11: I'll second the motion.

[4:28:56] Voice 15: Thank you. Okay, I don't see any spelling things there. But

[4:29:06] Voice 15: all right. So any more discussion on the second motion? I'll call the vote. All those in question?

[4:29:17] Voice 15: All those in favor? Now, Trustee Middleton's hands up, but I got a chat that he had to leave

[4:29:23] Voice 15: the meeting. So I think he's just gone with his hand up. So we still have quorum, but I don't

[4:29:32] Voice 15: think that counts. So carried. Number 13, management alignment. A management review

[4:29:50] Voice 15: should be undertaken to identify measures that will improve alignment of staff to trust council

[4:29:54] Voice 15: and improve reporting and accountability.

[4:30:00] Voice 15: recommendation that Trust Council request staff work with executive

[4:30:03] Voice 15: committee to review staff support to Trust Council identified gaps in that

[4:30:08] Voice 15: support and options for addressing those gaps as per recommendation 13 any

[4:30:17] Voice 15: comments on that Christy Patrick all right

[4:30:33] Trustee Patrick: um it's again this is a bit

[4:30:39] Trustee Patrick: muddled I think I think it's in the land use section there is a rec there's

[4:30:45] Trustee Patrick: recommendations regarding reporting so staff reporting clarifying and dealing with staff

[4:30:50] Trustee Patrick: reports that's that's there um i i think you know the way this is written that there's gaps and

[4:31:00] Trustee Patrick: there's i to me what really is missing here is the alignment of staff resources with priority work

[4:31:08] Trustee Patrick: whether it's at trust council or local trust committees, that to me is what's there, you know, because of the way just identifying gaps and options to address those gaps.

[4:31:26] Trustee Patrick: Like I said, I think it's more of a question of understanding who's doing what work and it matching priorities.

[4:31:37] Voice 15: Okay. The commentary is a lot from the consultants is quite challenging in some ways. So we're basically asking staff to review staff support. Is this come into the corporate planning as well, once we have a better handle of priorities and workloads?

[4:32:11] Voice 15: Well,

[4:32:14] Voice 11: if I may, to answer your question, I think it comes into reassessing the role of

[4:32:18] Voice 11: the executive committee, what, if anything, a corporate secretary could do.

[4:32:22] Voice 11: It's both really virtually all of this is of a piece with refreshing these ancient policies

[4:32:31] Voice 11: that we have and bring them up to date.

[4:32:36] Voice 11: So because staff support to Trust Council is really at the direction of executive committee

[4:32:42] Voice 11: and further to the policies.

[4:32:44] Voice 11: i don't know to me the recommendation looked like the recommendation together with

[4:32:52] Voice 11: the the language the commentary from the report i think it's pretty clear it's uh and i'm not

[4:33:00] Voice 11: sure if trustee patrick was getting at this but i mean what that recommendation was addressed at

[4:33:05] Voice 11: was really about um how trust council meetings proceed um not so much other support uh say in

[4:33:16] Voice 11: a local trust committee capacity that trustees receive. So I view this as somewhat narrow,

[4:33:21] Voice 11: that it supports a trust council, not LTCs. That's what we're getting at here, and that's

[4:33:26] Voice 11: the substance of this one. In any event, I'd be prepared to support this recommendation as written.

[4:33:36] Voice 15: Can you think of an alternative for the word gaps?

[4:33:43] Voice 11: Can I ask somebody to clarify what is the objection to the word gaps?

[4:33:46] Voice 11: It's

[4:33:48] Voice 15: a little bit more complex, I think, in terms of the commentary that's above. Disconnect and questioning and not fully understanding or considering.

[4:34:05] Voice 15: I'll

[4:34:06] Voice 11: consider a word that's harsher, identified deficiencies.

[4:34:12] Voice 15: Yeah, that's a little too harsh.

[4:34:15] Voice 15: Even I...

[4:34:16] Voice 15: it's a disconnect um and it's you know coming in from uh director marler yeah

[4:34:26] Voice 1: i don't have a um

[4:34:28] Voice 1: a replacement for that word but it comes from usually when you do swatter analysis you

[4:34:33] Voice 1: look at your strengths weaknesses and what you're looking for is where you're doing a good job and

[4:34:38] Voice 1: where there are things that are missing which we usually call gaps in in the provision so really

[4:34:45] Voice 1: it's just uh that's where it comes from so it wasn't intended to be um you

[4:34:51] Voice 15: know we use that

[4:34:51] Voice 15: language identify the strengths and weaknesses and that support and options for addressing

[4:34:57] Voice 15: um those that analysis okay

[4:35:02] Voice 1: yeah i can just let me have a go at seeing what i can put in here

[4:35:05] Voice 15: that work for everybody actually

[4:35:10] Voice 11: i think that's an improvement because you know um it emphasizes

[4:35:14] Voice 11: emphasizes that let's look at the whole thing as how it's working now and there may be things about

[4:35:20] Voice 11: it and there are things about it that are working well don't want to chuck those out so uh yeah

[4:35:25] Voice 11: let's focus on both of those so i think strengths and weaknesses works quite well all

[4:35:33] Voice 15: right so then

[4:35:35] Voice 15: we've got um i'll move the trust council requests staff to work with the executive committee to

[4:35:40] Voice 15: review staff support to trust council identifying strengths and weaknesses in that support and

[4:35:46] Voice 15: and options for addressing that analysis, as per Recommendation 13 in the 2022 Governance Report.

[4:35:53] Voice 15: Does that work? Sorry, David, was that too?

[4:35:56] Voice 1: No, that's fine. I'm just writing it in here, and I'm just going to switch the screen in a second.

[4:36:04] Voice 1: All right, good to go. Once I can get my screen to come up.

[4:36:08] Voice 15: That caveat needs to be included, though, once we get into a discussion at the Committee of the Whole, I think,

[4:36:14] Voice 15: that it's a major work program.

[4:36:19] all

[4:36:20] Voice 15: right um i'll move that how about a seconder i'll second

[4:36:27] Voice 15: bernardo thank you any more discussion

[4:36:34] Voice 15: okay let's vote all those in favor that's five of us um that's all that's here so that's carried

[4:36:48] Voice 15: and mr barlow if you took down mr middleton's trustee middleton's um hand up thank you very

[4:37:00] Voice 15: much it's a little bit less confusing for me um number 14 islands trust conservancy

[4:37:11] Voice 15: um with a recommendation that trust council request staff report back on the current

[4:37:18] Voice 15: situation and gaps and options for addressing those gaps in synergy between islands trust

[4:37:25] Voice 15: Trust Conservancy, and Islands Trust Operations, as per Recommendation 14.

[4:37:35] Voice 15: Trustee Patrick, thank you.

[4:37:40] Trustee Patrick: This one, I think I know more about sort of what was below the surface

[4:37:47] Trustee Patrick: or what this was about was there were a lot of demands last term.

[4:37:52] Trustee Patrick: It's funny, it doesn't seem to be as much this term

[4:37:55] Trustee Patrick: or something was solved from last term to this term.

[4:37:57] Trustee Patrick: for the one biologist that worked at the Islands Trust Conservancy

[4:38:03] Trustee Patrick: was being drawn into local trust committee work

[4:38:06] Trustee Patrick: and all over the map on supporting various things.

[4:38:10] Trustee Patrick: And that was not helpful.

[4:38:14] Trustee Patrick: So to me, this is somewhat of, you know,

[4:38:18] Trustee Patrick: yes, they're an independent, quasi-independent agency,

[4:38:22] Trustee Patrick: But they are also one of the places that they're building those strengths for different specialist approaches. I think the question is more, you know, it's better alignment of resources, but it's also the options of building in-house versus using, you know, external subject matter experts from, you know, from biologists to zoologists.

[4:38:49] Trustee Patrick: You know, we never know who it is we need. So do we retain them in-house or, you know, are they on Island's Trust side? Are they on Island's Trust Conservancy side? Are they, you know, consultants or subject matter experts that we rely on? So I think, to me, that's more of the issue of having, building that bench strength, so to speak, at the organization, but sort of sharing it better amongst the two agencies and between internal and external resources.

[4:39:18] Trustee Patrick: resources.

[4:39:20] Voice 15: Thank you. Trustee Harris? Thank you.

[4:39:28] Voice 7: You know, it's interesting to me, you know,

[4:39:31] Voice 7: the whole mandate and we've got, you know, supposed to be a balanced approach taken.

[4:39:37] Voice 7: You know, in my view, and many of the people who supported, you know, my election aren't really

[4:39:44] Voice 7: comfortable with the Allen's Trust Conservancy, you know, not being an elected body. And where's

[4:39:50] Voice 7: the balance why isn't there a community conservancy you know it's just this heavy eco

[4:39:57] Voice 7: bent and and a lot of people question well how much more protection do we need is it not already

[4:40:03] Voice 7: protected enough 30 of salt spring is already protected blah blah blah um so you know i don't

[4:40:10] Voice 7: know where to go with this but i i want i'd like to know where i'd like to know where it's gonna

[4:40:17] Voice 7: when it's going to end.

[4:40:21] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo, I'm just going

[4:40:24] Voice 11: to miss the time, too.

[4:40:25] Voice 15: We've got 15 minutes left.

[4:40:29] Voice 11: I don't know if it's helpful to Trustee Harris,

[4:40:31] Voice 11: but the Island Trust Conservancy, I mean, you know,

[4:40:37] Voice 11: and I think we have to be cautious following up on something

[4:40:39] Voice 11: Trustee Patrick said.

[4:40:40] Voice 11: Yeah, we're affiliated with them.

[4:40:41] Voice 11: We're associated with them.

[4:40:42] Voice 11: But under the legislation, they are separate corporate entities

[4:40:45] Voice 11: with separate corporate responsibilities.

[4:40:48] Voice 11: And to address specifically Trustee Harris's point,

[4:40:52] Voice 11: the Conservancy is doing what the legislation assigns it to do the larger idea of like there

[4:40:59] Voice 11: being some sort of emphasis on preserving the community or enhancing the community that's

[4:41:06] Voice 11: really a responsibility really of us over our Trust Council in terms of how we apply the mandate

[4:41:11] Voice 11: generally but in terms of the Islands Trust Conservancy has it has a very specific and

[4:41:17] Voice 11: narrow and very clear conservancy mandate that's what its work is so the question that's before us

[4:41:24] Voice 11: is really um uh do we think trust council should ask staff to report back on how that relationship

[4:41:34] Voice 11: is working and uh frankly personally i don't have strong views about it uh and uh but the thing

[4:41:44] Voice 11: about it is, it's not about us necessarily endorsing this. For example, when this gets

[4:41:51] Voice 11: to the Trust Council, we're going to have to have a discussion about priorities. Although

[4:41:55] Voice 11: this I can see is very important and for some people, some trustees in particular, it might

[4:41:59] Voice 11: be an issue of great moment. I think we can have a debate about where to prioritize this

[4:42:08] Voice 11: in terms, I mean, there's only so much staff resources we've got, but we're not dealing

[4:42:12] Voice 11: with the priority of it now that's going to be dealt with at the trust council level the question

[4:42:16] Voice 11: is it's a very simple one in front of us do we want we think trust council should request after

[4:42:22] Voice 11: to to look into the relationship basically between the the conservancy and um and the trust itself

[4:42:31] Voice 11: and that's not necessarily putting a finger on the scale one way or the other not actually extra

[4:42:37] Voice 11: extra environmental protection or lessening it.

[4:42:40] Voice 11: It's looking at the operating relationship.

[4:42:43] Voice 11: So on that basis, I think I'd be fine

[4:42:46] Voice 11: with this recommendation as is.

[4:42:48] Voice 11: Thank you.

[4:42:49] Voice 15: Okay, gentlemen, as I say, we've got 15 minutes left

[4:42:54] Voice 15: and we've got one more recommendation

[4:42:57] Voice 15: on this part of our agenda,

[4:42:59] Voice 15: and that is leaving a big gap in terms of the other matters.

[4:43:03] Voice 15: So, Trustee Harris, I'll allow you to speak a second time.

[4:43:08] Voice 15: you um yeah

[4:43:10] Voice 7: well i'm honored um oh i wish that page would be back up there i can go to my agenda

[4:43:17] Voice 7: i suppose can we perhaps get that last page back up on the uh screen this is the government

[4:43:31] Voice 15: recommendation okay the

[4:43:32] Voice 7: report okay the report commentary on recommendation is that that's from

[4:43:37] Voice 15: the where's that from

[4:43:39] Voice 15: consultants okay

[4:43:41] Voice 7: okay thank you all

[4:43:49] Voice 15: right um we've got a recommendation on the

[4:43:53] Voice 15: um as written um has that been moved and seconded dr marler oh sorry trustee patrick well i was

[4:44:01] Trustee Patrick: gonna say can we do strengths and weaknesses again for the first gaps sure i think that's more

[4:44:07] Trustee Patrick: more specific.

[4:44:13] Voice 15: And options for addressing

[4:44:16] Voice 15: those strengths

[4:44:20] Voice 15: and weaknesses

[4:44:20] Voice 15: in synergy between

[4:44:25] Voice 15: the Trust Conservancy and the

[4:44:28] Voice 15: Islands Trust Operations as per

[4:44:29] Voice 15: recommendation 14.

[4:44:33] Voice 11: I don't think we need

[4:44:35] Voice 11: to address strengths.

[4:44:37] Voice 11: The way it's worded, I don't think

[4:44:40] Voice 11: that's better.

[4:44:44] Trustee Patrick: Or opportunities.

[4:44:46] Trustee Patrick: Addressing opportunities to improve

[4:44:48] Trustee Patrick: the synergies.

[4:44:49] Trustee Patrick: sorry i like positive words all right

[4:44:56] Trustee Patrick: i will make that motion

[4:44:59] Voice 15: seconder second bernardo thank you

[4:45:03] Voice 15: um any more discussion well that

[4:45:08] Voice 7: that wording changes it for me i'm not in support

[4:45:10] Voice 7: at this point because i don't agree with addressing opportunities to improve synergy between the

[4:45:16] Voice 7: two um bodies um the wording before i could get behind but this i i just can't get behind

[4:45:23] Voice 7: And people that voted for me wouldn't be behind you.

[4:45:26] Voice 15: All right.

[4:45:27] Trustee Patrick: Any other comments?

[4:45:29] Trustee Patrick: I'll answer.

[4:45:30] Trustee Patrick: To me, I see the synergies about the sharing of resources.

[4:45:33] Trustee Patrick: So we're not duplicating resources and costing more.

[4:45:36] Trustee Patrick: So that's the opportunities I see is it's that we function better between as two organizations.

[4:45:41] Trustee Patrick: So hopefully reducing cost or improving efficiencies.

[4:45:47] Voice 15: Any other discussion?

[4:45:49] Voice 15: Let's have a vote.

[4:45:50] Voice 15: All those in favor?

[4:45:58] Voice 15: Lower your hands, please.

[4:45:59] Voice 15: opposed okay that's carried last one compensation um we know the recommendation from the um

[4:46:14] Voice 15: consultants and we've got um the recommendation to the committee of the whole trust council not

[4:46:22] Voice 15: undertake any further work on 15 of the governance report um do we say at this time

[4:46:34] Voice 15: pending the business case request?

[4:46:44] Voice 15: Sorry, Trustee Peterson.

[4:46:47] Voice 10: Yeah, I was going to suggest that the wording is

[4:46:53] Voice 10: after governance report would be pending the trustee remuneration review.

[4:47:02] Voice 15: Trustee Bernardo?

[4:47:05] Voice 11: Yeah, I actually think my preference would be

[4:47:09] Voice 11: we just completely strike this whole thing from it

[4:47:12] Voice 11: because there is no further work.

[4:47:15] Voice 11: really, for staff to do. And this is, I don't know if it's not misleading, but it's a little

[4:47:21] Voice 11: distracting and confusing in the sense that at governance committee, we'd already recommended,

[4:47:27] Voice 11: and I think trust council supported that this review hand over, be handed over to, you know,

[4:47:35] Voice 11: be proceed on an independent basis, independent consultant, to the extent that trustees or staff

[4:47:42] Voice 11: can actually do anything in a way that is credible with the public i.e our fingerprints ought not to

[4:47:49] Voice 11: be in our judgment ought not to have form any part of the assessment of you know proposals as to what

[4:47:55] Voice 11: compensation should be so there's in a sense this recommendation has been dealt with

[4:48:01] Voice 11: it's being reviewed so i'm just wondering whether or not we should just drop it

[4:48:07] Voice 15: Okay, but we don't have that decision yet. It's just gone in as a business case. And one of our things on the recommendations in the business case was that if it isn't funded by a consultant, then should it be in-house? And if so, how do we do it?

[4:48:25] Voice 15: So we've got a suggestion that we reduce our budget, but it's still not approved.

[4:48:32] Voice 15: So I think that it's pending the decision on that.

[4:48:37] Voice 15: Is it not?

[4:48:39] Voice 15: Decision on the business case?

[4:48:43] Voice 15: And it's easily dealt with at the Committee of the Whole.

[4:48:45] Voice 15: We might even have a decision then if that's a May meeting and we've got past our budget.

[4:48:50] Voice 15: Trustee Peterson?

[4:48:54] Voice 10: Yeah, I agree.

[4:48:55] Voice 10: uh it it we actually haven't completed the work um so i that's why i suggested pending the trustee

[4:49:03] Voice 10: remuneration review so i'm going to go ahead and make the motion for the sake of argument

[4:49:07] Voice 10: that trust that uh the recommendation read that trust counsel not undertake any further work

[4:49:13] Voice 10: on recommendation 15 of the 2022 governance uh report pending the trustee remuneration review

[4:49:21] Voice 10: you

[4:49:22] Voice 15: second any more discussion sorry

[4:49:30] Voice 1: we need a second there did we thank

[4:49:32] Voice 15: you

[4:49:34] Voice 1: um

[4:49:36] Voice 15: no more discussion

[4:49:38] Voice 15: let's have a vote all those in favor that's all of us good unanimous all right so um now that's

[4:49:50] Voice 15: That's the Appendix 1, and there was, as Director Marler pointed out, there was a, pages 10-11,

[4:50:05] Voice 15: or 10-14, 15, there was a Forward the Attach Request for Decision.

[4:50:14] Voice 15: So that had multiple recommendations.

[4:50:18] Voice 15: recommendations um i was a little bit confused uh with respect to pages 15 and 16 um being

[4:50:27] Voice 15: response options and that was basically a repetition of all of the um recommendations

[4:50:35] Voice 15: that were on page 13 is that director marler yeah

[4:50:39] Voice 1: so given that you've made changes uh obviously

[4:50:43] Voice 1: of these recommendations on page 13, we'd need to change.

[4:50:50] Voice 1: So what we can do is if you're meeting again

[4:50:53] Voice 1: before you have a committee of the whole,

[4:50:56] Voice 1: I can make all the changes, update this RFD

[4:51:00] Voice 1: to reflect the changes that you've made.

[4:51:02] Voice 1: And then at that time, you can also consider, yeah,

[4:51:10] Voice 1: Yeah. Recommendation J here, which is the prioritization of three of them.

[4:51:16] Voice 1: Those are those big ones. You may want to do that at the next meeting, given you're out of time today anyway.

[4:51:24] Voice 15: All right. So then let's table specifically recommendation J that we prioritize certain of these recommendations that we've just worked through.

[4:51:36] Voice 15: and and we can think about that in the um our between now and our next meeting which is april

[4:51:45] Voice 15: 7th so anybody opposed to that particular recommendation being tabled

[4:51:51] Voice 1: and could i just

[4:51:53] Voice 1: ask maybe through the chair of the cao is okay with um that coming back to april will that still

[4:51:58] Voice 1: work from planning a committee at the hall before the june meeting

[4:52:03] Voice 14: yes i think so i think we're

[4:52:06] Voice 14: looking at probably mid to late may well hopefully early early to mid-may but we should be able to

[4:52:12] Voice 14: make that work yeah okay

[4:52:14] Voice 15: hopefully a month in between yeah good thank you

[4:52:17] Voice 1: yeah so that's all

[4:52:19] Voice 1: i need for this particular item on the agenda all

[4:52:23] Voice 15: right so um that and the agenda takes us from

[4:52:29] Voice 15: that is 7.1 so we've got 7.2 the secretary at business case request for decision

[4:52:36] Voice 15: excuse me is trustee middleton back i

[4:52:41] Voice 11: don't believe so all

[4:52:43] Voice 15: right um i'm going to suggest

[4:52:45] Voice 15: that we move on to um uh number eight item number eight business review of

[4:52:52] Voice 11: the point of order

[4:52:52] Voice 15: point

[4:52:53] Voice 11: of order yep i

[4:52:54] Voice 11: i don't know i mean we've discussed this and trustee middleton's an advocate

[4:53:00] Voice 11: for this thing yeah

[4:53:01] Voice 15: the

[4:53:02] Voice 11: issue is before all of us and uh you know we have this but you know the

[4:53:08] Voice 11: budget's got to come up we need to have we actually if we want this funding we have to i think we have

[4:53:12] Voice 11: to make a decision uh at this meeting because the budget's going to be decided in march so that's

[4:53:19] Voice 11: the business case that we asked staff to prepare uh we had it in mind that we you know um as i

[4:53:26] Voice 11: they keep saying in may this body had decided it's good to explore it we're going to ask trust

[4:53:32] Voice 11: council to endorse the idea of exploring it and doing the review this is where the money comes

[4:53:37] Voice 11: from to do the review in a competent fashion so it seems to me

[4:53:40] Voice 11: that we should actually be voting

[4:53:42] Voice 11: on this one today all right

[4:53:47] Voice 13: and it's not complicated so

[4:53:50] Voice 15: um i think we're going to have

[4:53:52] Voice 15: to go over is that a problem for anybody trustee peterson sorry yeah

[4:53:59] Voice 10: i was going to suggest that

[4:54:00] Voice 10: we deal with um this uh issue and uh the review of the budget and then um and and then we're gonna

[4:54:10] Voice 10: have to defer the rest i think because i think um uh speaking for myself anyway i can't stay

[4:54:16] Voice 10: indefinitely um uh so i'd like to um i'd like to do this and if we need to get any any anywhere on

[4:54:26] Voice 10: on the review of the other business cases, fine,

[4:54:29] Voice 10: but then I think that's about all I think we are capable of time-wise today.

[4:54:33] Voice 12: And in the

[4:54:34] Voice 10: interest of expedience,

[4:54:38] Voice 10: I move that Governance Committee approve the Secretariat Business Case

[4:54:42] Voice 10: of Origin of Financial Planning Committee for Inclusion

[4:54:44] Voice 10: in the 2025-26 fiscal year budget.

[4:54:49] Voice 7: I second.

[4:54:50] Voice 7: Trustee Harris.

[4:55:01] Voice 15: all right so we've got a motion on the floor discussion um

[4:55:17] Voice 11: i just very quick comment on my

[4:55:19] Voice 11: part uh in that um i just think it follows doing this follows logically in the previous discussion

[4:55:25] Voice 11: um and i'd be prepared to vote on it now thank you i

[4:55:34] Voice 15: have i have trouble with respect to um us having

[4:55:40] Voice 15: more information. And, you know, it's part of the research, but it's also, you know, part of

[4:55:48] Voice 15: even just getting into the expense of the research and that we've, you know, it's all sort of last

[4:55:54] Voice 15: minute. And we don't have a real clear idea of what we would say to a consultant in terms of

[4:56:01] Voice 15: what it is that we're looking for. So this comment with respect to risk assessment, clear project

[4:56:08] Voice 15: charter and terms of reference. And, you know, some clear idea of what the outcome is. So the

[4:56:16] Voice 15: fact that there's an executive director at the regional council is of interest, and I'd like to

[4:56:25] Voice 15: know about that. But, you know, even if this all goes through, and it's something that we want,

[4:56:31] Voice 15: I'm not sure about the rush in terms of of this year. And so, you know, we're looking at ultimately a position that's going to be expensive and whether or not this is something that we can justify as curious as we might be.

[4:56:51] Voice 15: So I'd like to personally have some sort of a, I'd like to know from staff, I don't have the same sorts of problems, I guess, in terms of what we're getting for our services and from the existing rules.

[4:57:10] Voice 15: And I'd like to know from staff if that were removed from their work plan, whether or not that was something that would help in terms of all the other things that need to get done or not.

[4:57:24] Voice 15: And I'm not sure how this, and I guess that's part of the research.

[4:57:33] Voice 15: Well, that's an ultimate question in terms of how this reports to who.

[4:57:36] Voice 15: But I think that it's it just is rushed and it's not spelled out enough.

[4:57:43] Voice 15: But point

[4:57:44] Voice 11: of order, point of order.

[4:57:46] Voice 11: Thank you. Yes.

[4:57:47] Voice 11: With respect, Chair.

[4:57:52] Voice 11: You want

[4:57:52] Voice 15: me to rule on a point of order myself?

[4:57:54] Voice 15: Go for it.

[4:57:55] Voice 11: Yes, I'm afraid I have to.

[4:57:57] Voice 11: It's that you're revisiting an issue that we've already decided.

[4:58:02] Voice 11: it when we voted on uh the recommendation eight um we're recommending to trust council that they

[4:58:10] Voice 11: do this that we do this exploration and you were opposed to it now you're revisiting it and what

[4:58:17] Voice 11: you're trying to say well okay we have that but let's not fund it i mean that's um uh i don't

[4:58:25] Voice 11: think that's appropriate with respect i mean it's um the issue is before us uh and um i i just i

[4:58:36] Voice 11: just you know i i don't understand how it's possible to sort of uh take another bite at

[4:58:41] Voice 11: the apple here in terms of opposing i mean everything that you're saying with respect

[4:58:45] Voice 11: chair is casting doubt on the merit of doing the exploration and when you say that this this

[4:58:51] Voice 11: position could cost a lot of money nobody's talking about spending the funding or funding

[4:58:55] Voice 11: the position. It's getting the funding to do a really important job into looking into

[4:59:04] Voice 11: the feasibility of a secretariat position. And on the

[4:59:09] Voice 11: scale of what our expenditures are,

[4:59:11] Voice 11: $15,000 isn't huge. In any event, my point of order is you seem to be attempting to revisit

[4:59:17] Voice 11: a decision that's already been made.

[4:59:19] Voice 7: Trustee Harris. I guess I feel that this

[4:59:28] Voice 7: has been spoken about for a long time um not today but in many meetings and this is this isn't

[4:59:34] Voice 7: something new um to me you know i've been hearing about this almost from since the beginning of the

[4:59:39] Voice 7: term um and this isn't the end all be all um of the matter um and i find it very appropriate to

[4:59:46] Voice 7: go ahead um with this motion and i'm in favor of it trustee

[4:59:52] Trustee Patrick: patrick i think the business case is

[4:59:56] Trustee Patrick: generally written well enough to be focused on the corporate

[5:00:00] Trustee Patrick: secretary position or you know within the legislation that we have the one thing i would

[5:00:06] Trustee Patrick: ask is um and i is if by either the financial financial planning committee's meeting in

[5:00:14] Trustee Patrick: february or by the march trust council if staff could be in a position to either provide a bit

[5:00:21] Trustee Patrick: more more information on whether or not option two of staff undertaking the review would be

[5:00:27] Trustee Patrick: be possible so i'm not putting them on the hook today to answer that question but if by you know

[5:00:33] Trustee Patrick: fpc or tc in march that we had a better indication if they had the ability to do this in-house

[5:00:39] Trustee Patrick: through option two that's on page 32 christy

[5:00:51] Voice 15: peterson yeah

[5:00:54] Voice 10: thank you i think um in terms of

[5:00:57] Voice 10: of not uh delaying the work uh until following fiscal that um we need to get something off to

[5:01:06] Voice 10: fpc um i i i just that's kind of basically it if if there's issues around refining the

[5:01:17] Voice 10: business case i believe cao uh said earlier that he'd be willing to work with interested trustees

[5:01:24] Voice 10: on that um but we've got to get something out the door uh to financial planning committee and

[5:01:32] Voice 10: march trust council if we're going to do anything this fiscal and that's it for me any other

[5:01:41] Voice 15: discussion so we've got a recommendation a motion governance committee approve the secretary at

[5:01:51] Voice 15: business case and forward it to financial planning committee for inclusion in the 2025-26 fiscal year

[5:01:57] Voice 15: And that is with the recommended question, recommended option that's on page 32, consultant undertake the review.

[5:02:08] Voice 15: That was just highlighted by Trustee Patrick as possibly changing as part of following the discussion that we had earlier in terms of whether or not any of this could be done in-house.

[5:02:22] Voice 15: So is that recommended option?

[5:02:26] Voice 15: Is that just an alternative?

[5:02:27] Voice 15: alternative yeah

[5:02:28] Trustee Patrick: no my understanding is we're going forward with option one today and i'm just

[5:02:32] Trustee Patrick: saying it'd be nice to have that information by the time we make the final budget call in march

[5:02:36] Trustee Patrick: on whether or not option two is a possibility for a budget reduction all

[5:02:41] Voice 12: right so

[5:02:44] Voice 15: moved and

[5:02:45] Voice 15: seconded any more discussion all right let's vote all those in favor okay hands down opposed

[5:02:59] Voice 15: proposed just the one all right so that's 7.2 um the 8.1 or other business is a review of the

[5:03:19] Voice 15: other budget requests and the second one was the review of the committee mandate and i can speak

[5:03:26] Voice 15: to that very briefly and then there's um the next meeting date um so let's do very quickly the

[5:03:33] Voice 15: The review of the 8.1 review of fiscal year budget items.

[5:03:39] Voice 1: Do you want me to just brief the comment?

[5:03:43] Voice 1: Yeah.

[5:03:44] Voice 1: So as it says,

[5:03:45] Voice 1: trust counselors request all standing committees to review the budgets and

[5:03:49] Voice 1: look for reductions.

[5:03:51] Voice 1: So until now you had to 10,000 for a trust council policy review and 10,000

[5:03:58] Voice 1: for trustee remuneration.

[5:04:01] Voice 1: So of the two,

[5:04:03] Voice 1: the Trust Council policy review the funding there was intended to cover legal and some

[5:04:09] Voice 1: administrative staff backup because most likely staff will be undertaking this work on behalf of

[5:04:15] Voice 1: the Governance Committee. In review I think you can probably safely reduce it by about $4,000

[5:04:23] Voice 1: that is reducing the legal to about $2,000 mostly so you could change this ask to $6,000 and I still

[5:04:33] Voice 1: think it'll be supportive of the work that you need to do and just while we're here you've just

[5:04:43] Voice 1: added $15,000 with the secretary business case so you'll be looking at a net increase if you

[5:04:50] Voice 1: you reduce this by $6,000, you'll be looking at a net increase

[5:04:54] Voice 1: of a mass turtle of $9,000.

[5:04:59] Voice 15: All right.

[5:05:00] Trustee Patrick: So any discussion?

[5:05:03] Trustee Patrick: I'll make the motion, except unless there's,

[5:05:08] Trustee Patrick: although there isn't a motion there,

[5:05:09] Trustee Patrick: but I'll move that the Governance Committee reduce the budget

[5:05:15] Trustee Patrick: for the Trust Council policy review by $6,000.

[5:05:21] Voice 15: Seconded by Peterson.

[5:05:26] Voice 15: Was your hand raised to second?

[5:05:29] Voice 15: trustee peterson yes okay

[5:05:31] Voice 15: thank you any more discussion all right all those in favor

[5:05:37] Voice 15: three hands down all those opposed one opposed so trustee bernardo you're abstaining yes i am

[5:05:56] Voice 15: all right so um very very very quickly i put the mandate on the um november meeting and it

[5:06:05] Voice 15: It showed up again, this one, we still haven't, and I wanted it to, I thought then we could

[5:06:11] Voice 15: have a midterm reassessment and discussion in terms of how we're doing and look at the

[5:06:16] Voice 15: mandate in terms of what we're supposed to be doing and whether or not we're meeting

[5:06:21] Voice 15: everything.

[5:06:21] Voice 15: So there's no time for that discussion today.

[5:06:24] Voice 15: I'm going to ask that it be put over again and hopefully sometime in the future we'll

[5:06:30] Voice 15: have a chance to um think about and uh reconsider or or just cogitate in terms of uh how we're doing

[5:06:38] Voice 15: and our with respect to our mandate trustee patrick how

[5:06:42] Trustee Patrick: about we run a little survey or

[5:06:44] Trustee Patrick: something that we just a simple survey that we write it amongst ourselves or between the

[5:06:50] Trustee Patrick: meeting so that we actually have some material to chew on all

[5:06:55] Voice 15: right got any time to organize a

[5:06:58] Voice 15: the survey?

[5:07:01] Trustee Patrick: I'll volunteer to work with you.

[5:07:06] Voice 15: You're volunteering me. Thanks. All right. Let's

[5:07:10] Voice 15: see if we can pull something off before April. All right. So can I ask you a question? Yes. How

[5:07:18] Voice 11: is viewing the mandate any different than our usual review of the matrix?

[5:07:25] Voice 15: Our usual review of

[5:07:27] Voice 15: what?

[5:07:28] Voice 11: The matrix.

[5:07:29] Voice 15: The matrix is specific so far. And one of the questions is that that is primarily

[5:07:37] Voice 15: all the recommendations from the governance review, with the exception of the recording

[5:07:44] Voice 15: of negative votes. I think that came from trust counsel. So it's the question that you've raised

[5:07:50] Voice 15: a couple of times in terms of do we limit ourselves to those recommendations? And another

[5:07:56] Voice 15: other question is with respect to part of the mandate is for us to recommend best practices

[5:08:01] Voice 15: and we've been concentrating almost entirely on the governance review and we haven't gotten into

[5:08:08] Voice 15: any kind of thoughts about and consideration of what the best practices are and where we can get

[5:08:15] Voice 15: resources one of the comments that was made by the ministry of municipal affairs staff when we

[5:08:22] Voice 15: were at UBCM was that there are other resources that they could recommend and that in terms of

[5:08:29] Voice 15: us understanding best practices and having some access to other resources so it's it is the matrix

[5:08:37] Voice 15: but it's more than the matrix as well I think so that was part of the discussion you've raised it

[5:08:43] Voice 15: a couple of times yourself in terms of we're limiting ourselves to just the governance review

[5:08:48] Voice 15: view and the matrix or the uh mandate is you know four points as opposed to just that first one so

[5:08:55] Voice 15: and we are

[5:08:56] Voice 15: getting through um not all certainly but some and um it's we're halfway through what

[5:09:03] Voice 15: do we want to do for the rest of the term so okay

[5:09:07] Voice 11: thank you all

[5:09:10] Voice 15: right so we've got a work program

[5:09:13] Voice 15: I have to report to council in March, so I will cobble together some sort of a report, and it's going to be probably based on today's work on that governance review and the preparation for the committee of the whole.

[5:09:35] Voice 15: And I'll try and get that out to you before I actually give it to the trust council.

[5:09:39] Voice 15: Trustee Peterson.

[5:09:43] Voice 10: okay i move that governance committee approve its work program and forward it to trust council

[5:09:48] Voice 10: you're referring to the

[5:09:51] Voice 15: matrix okay seconded by bernardo um any more discussion on that

[5:09:57] Voice 15: all right let's vote all those in favor thank you that's everybody all right um we didn't have

[5:10:12] Voice 15: a closed meeting the next one is april the 9th 10 till 3 and um i'll move that we adjourn this

[5:10:18] Voice 15: this meeting. Any opposed? Nope.

[5:10:25] Voice 15: Thank you, Mr. Barlow. Thank you, Mr. Marlowe and Mr. Broney.

[5:10:30] Voice 15: And if Director Mobs is still there, thank you too.