Islands Trust Council regular meeting, November 5, 2024

[0:00:00] Voice 11: to order. I see the agenda here

[0:00:02] Voice 3: in

[0:00:06] Voice 11: front of us. Are there any new items or reordering of the agenda

[0:00:10] Voice 11: that anybody wants to speak to? Doesn't sound like it. Can everybody hear okay?

[0:00:22] Voice 9: Yep, I can hear you.

[0:00:25] Voice 11: Great. I'm not really used to this because I usually have the screen sort of up in front of

[0:00:31] Voice 11: me, but I've got the agenda in front of me here kind of in the forefront. So is there any public

[0:00:36] Voice 11: here to make comment to staff for that

[0:00:43] Voice 1: there's no electronic attendees if

[0:00:47] Voice 10: i may uh vice chair harris

[0:00:49] Voice 10: um uh we would generally accept the agenda by consent yeah there's a

[0:00:59] Voice 11: second that spot here

[0:01:00] Voice 11: like there's

[0:01:01] Voice 10: the approval of agenda

[0:01:01] Voice 11: 2.2 thank you very much um so we will accept the agenda as

[0:01:10] Voice 11: as as it is yeah unanimously we're

[0:01:16] Voice 11: doing that no objections thank

[0:01:20] Voice 11: you thank you

[0:01:23] Voice 11: no delegations is there correspondence nothing

[0:01:33] Trustee Luckham: listed the

[0:01:43] Voice 11: september 9th meeting is there any um

[0:01:44] Voice 11: any corrections to that you're referring to the

[0:01:49] Voice 11: minutes anybody the

[0:01:51] Trustee Luckham: minutes yes no i had no

[0:01:54] Trustee Luckham: correct none

[0:01:56] Voice 9: from here well

[0:02:12] Voice 11: i guess we can get on with um with the meat of the meeting if you may

[0:02:19] Voice 11: from from what i've from what i'm seeing we're uh going to be talking mainly about the um trustee

[0:02:26] Voice 11: remuneration yeah is that you

[0:02:29] Trustee Luckham: will uh jamie you will want to actually speak to the resolution

[0:02:32] Trustee Luckham: without meeting and the follow-up action list which is there if there's any um questions or

[0:02:37] Trustee Luckham: remarks from staff but the resolution without meeting certainly just identifying that it exists

[0:02:42] Trustee Luckham: for the public record thank

[0:02:45] Voice 11: you for that 6.2 is are there any resolutions without meeting

[0:02:51] Voice 11: see trustee gabriel stand up um please go ahead

[0:02:57] Voice 5: hey everyone happy to be here today uh did we

[0:03:01] Voice 5: skip the acknowledgement yes

[0:03:05] Voice 11: we did skip the acknowledgement um we would love it if um

[0:03:09] Voice 11: would you feel comfortable making an acknowledgement trustee gabriel

[0:03:13] Voice 11: I

[0:03:15] Voice 5: will always say yes to do an acknowledgement.

[0:03:19] Voice 5: All right.

[0:03:20] Voice 5: Thank you.

[0:03:21] Voice 5: Yep.

[0:03:22] Voice 5: All right.

[0:03:23] Voice 5: We're incredibly honored to be able to have our meeting today on the traditional and seeded lands of many Coast Salish nations.

[0:03:34] Voice 5: Particularly today, I wanted to share the news, the sad news of the passing of Murray Sinclair yesterday.

[0:03:43] Voice 5: yesterday uh he's been a uh a real force and reconciliation has been has literally changed

[0:03:49] Voice 5: the conversation around reconciliation throughout canada so i just wanted to

[0:03:56] Voice 5: say a few kind words um canada will miss his voice in the future um thank you let's have a

[0:04:02] Voice 5: great meeting yes

[0:04:05] Voice 11: um thank you very much trustee gabriel that was very well spoken yeah thank you

[0:04:11] Trustee Luckham: Trustee Gavreau. I had missed that news and that is just reflecting on what that means. It's

[0:04:19] Trustee Luckham: certainly Murray Sinclair has had an impact on me both personally and more politically

[0:04:26] Trustee Luckham: having had a chance to meet him on previous occasions. So indeed a legacy of work left behind

[0:04:35] Trustee Luckham: by Justice Murray Sinclair, thank you.

[0:04:44] Voice 11: So on to the follow-up action,

[0:04:48] Voice 11: is there any comment here?

[0:04:56] Voice 8: I don't think so, I think really, I mean,

[0:04:58] Voice 8: there's an agenda item that we have later on

[0:05:00] Voice 8: that is kind of like a big picture question

[0:05:04] Voice 8: about what we, assessing our mandate as a committee

[0:05:11] Voice 8: going forward, if that's the way of putting it.

[0:05:13] Voice 8: So a follow-up action list is all related to that.

[0:05:16] Voice 8: So we can probably just defer that discussion until then, I guess.

[0:05:21] Voice 8: I

[0:05:21] Voice 11: see CAO Mobs has her hand up.

[0:05:25] Voice 11: Please go ahead.

[0:05:26] Voice 6: Thanks, Trustee Harris.

[0:05:28] Voice 6: And apologies for no camera today.

[0:05:30] Voice 6: My computer's in the middle of an update.

[0:05:32] Voice 6: For whatever reason, my computer was missed in the update.

[0:05:35] Voice 6: But I am here, I'm present, and I can hear and see everybody.

[0:05:38] Voice 6: Just a couple of comments on the follow-up action list.

[0:05:41] Voice 6: There's two items on the follow-up action list where the Governance

[0:05:44] Voice 6: committee is making recommendations to trust council so one of those is recommending that

[0:05:49] Voice 6: trust council specifically review the governance report in a specially dedicated session and the

[0:05:54] Voice 6: other is a recommendation to trust council that it reconsider the timing of the september trust

[0:05:59] Voice 6: council meeting so just for everybody's information we do plan to advance those recommendations to

[0:06:04] Voice 6: trust council in december and hopefully trust council will make a decision there so that's

[0:06:10] Voice 6: the plan if we run out of space in the agenda we may have to um punt these but they're pretty

[0:06:14] Voice 6: quick items hopefully so that's that's the incentive to get those to december and uh as

[0:06:19] Voice 6: trustee bernardo mentioned lots of items from the fall of action which we'll tackle in today's

[0:06:23] Voice 6: meeting thank

[0:06:29] Voice 11: you so it looks like on to number seven and 7.1 is this um so we should land this

[0:06:42] Voice 11: this time and conversation uh

[0:06:48] Voice 6: yes 7.1 so i can provide some comments if you'd like chair

[0:06:52] Voice 6: That

[0:06:55] Voice 11: would be great. Thank you.

[0:06:56] Voice 6: I'll take it away. Okay. So agenda item 7.1 is looking at

[0:07:02] Voice 6: Trust Council's policy 7.2.1 on trustee remuneration. So you might recall that

[0:07:07] Voice 6: Financial Planning Committee a couple of years ago did some work over this policy

[0:07:11] Voice 6: to compare it to the UBCM's guide on board and council remuneration. So staff did compare the

[0:07:19] Voice 6: the UBCM's guide to the existing trust council policy to identify areas that could use some

[0:07:25] Voice 6: improvement. A financial planning committee did review that work and did give direction to staff

[0:07:30] Voice 6: to update the policy to reflect those improvement opportunities. So that's been sitting dormant for

[0:07:36] Voice 6: a couple of years now. We've picked it up again. I've asked Director Marler to incorporate those

[0:07:41] Voice 6: amendments from FPC into the policy itself. And you'll see that beginning on page 12 of the

[0:07:47] Voice 6: the agenda. That's an actual marked up version of Trust Council's policy and the changes are

[0:07:53] Voice 6: all in track changes so it's easy to identify what's been amended. This is here just for the

[0:07:58] Voice 6: committee's information. The plan is to have a look potentially at the remuneration values that

[0:08:09] Voice 6: are built into the policy as well as the process pieces that are built into the policy all at once

[0:08:14] Voice 6: together. The piece around looking at the values is best to be conducted by an independent third

[0:08:20] Voice 6: party, that would be a consultant, and we have a business case in the agenda that we'll be looking

[0:08:24] Voice 6: at related to that. If governance committee supports that and Trust Council supports that,

[0:08:28] Voice 6: a consultant would be hired to review the values in the policy, and then the amended values along

[0:08:35] Voice 6: with the process amendments, which you see in this agenda, would travel to Trust Council together

[0:08:39] Voice 6: together or review and approval all at once. So it's the most efficient approach is to wait for

[0:08:45] Voice 6: any consultant's work to be completed before advancing these amendments that you see in this

[0:08:49] Voice 6: agenda. So this is really just here for information, but I'm happy to respond to any questions that

[0:08:54] Voice 6: there might be. And certainly we can also take direction at this time from governance committee

[0:08:58] Voice 6: if there's additional changes that you think should be incorporated. Thank

[0:09:06] Voice 11: you for that.

[0:09:09] Voice 11: feeling now does anybody have anything to add i see a hand trustee bernardo thank you um

[0:09:23] Voice 8: yeah i uh just want to remind people in case we've forgotten just in terms of housekeeping that the

[0:09:28] Voice 8: uh fbc this work was originally associated with fbc and we had a discussion about that

[0:09:35] Voice 8: governance council and altered fbc and the bottom line here is that both committees agree that it's

[0:09:40] Voice 8: appropriate um although there's a financial component to it it's really um trustee

[0:09:46] Voice 8: remuneration is really intimately involved with governance issues all that kind of stuff so it

[0:09:49] Voice 8: properly belongs over over at this end on this committee which is which is why we're dealing

[0:09:54] Voice 8: with all of this stuff that's one point the other point is that um as uh uh director mobs pointed

[0:10:01] Voice 8: out uh and you see it in the language of this this item that uh it assumes that there will be

[0:10:08] Voice 8: be a consultant's review that will um and it kind of anticipates that we're going to agree to some

[0:10:14] Voice 8: version of the business case that that's before us today because it assumes that there's going to be

[0:10:19] Voice 8: um the result of a consultant review on remuneration values will be going into the

[0:10:25] Voice 8: what goes to trust what will be going to trust council at some point and implicit in that is

[0:10:30] Voice 8: also that the consultant's review report and i'd ask director mobs to clarify this i'm taking it

[0:10:36] Voice 8: for granted that uh notwithstanding what this little memo says that governance committee will

[0:10:41] Voice 8: be reviewing the consultant's report before um the final version of this memo ends up going to

[0:10:48] Voice 8: um a final version of this memo that proposes to amend policy 7.2.1 uh this committee will

[0:10:56] Voice 8: be having a look at uh the revised draft is that right director moms that

[0:11:03] Voice 6: is correct so any report

[0:11:05] Voice 6: from a consultant would come to this committee with some staff comments to supplement if necessary

[0:11:09] Voice 6: and then staff would receive direction from the committee to incorporate any changes into the

[0:11:15] Voice 6: policy and then governance committee would have a chance to endorse the amended policy as a whole

[0:11:20] Voice 6: and it would travel to trust council for their review and approval at that point and

[0:11:26] Voice 8: what fpc

[0:11:27] Voice 8: approved in terms of these changes it's kind of the last bit of before it basically handed off

[0:11:33] Voice 8: which is basically to accept staff's recommendations that we follow the UBCM model, really, basically.

[0:11:41] Voice 8: And so that's those changes. Have I summarized that fairly?

[0:11:46] Voice 6: That is fair. And one of the key changes that has been incorporated into this draft policy is the need for a regular review from an independent third party,

[0:11:56] Voice 6: either by task force or consultant.

[0:11:58] Voice 6: And so that is why, you know, we're sort of, as you said, assuming that approval to hire a consultant to conduct that third-party assessment will take place, and then we can roll the results in with the amendments you see here.

[0:12:13] Voice 3: Right. Thank you.

[0:12:17] Voice 11: Trustee Stanford has her hand up. Please go ahead.

[0:12:21] Trustee Stamford: Thank you, Chair. I'm just wondering, within this recommendation for external consultant,

[0:12:31] Trustee Stamford: to make sure that there's an opportunity for trustee input.

[0:12:35] Trustee Stamford: I have a few ideas and comments,

[0:12:38] Trustee Stamford: so I want to make sure that that is part of the RFP.

[0:12:43] Trustee Stamford: Thank you.

[0:12:44] Trustee Stamford: Thank

[0:12:49] Voice 11: you, Trustee Starr.

[0:12:50] Voice 11: Can I

[0:12:50] Voice 6: comment on that, Trustee Harris?

[0:12:53] Voice 11: Yes, please.

[0:12:56] Voice 6: So I just wanted to clarify,

[0:12:59] Voice 6: I think you're speaking more to the business case

[0:13:01] Voice 6: that we're going to be looking at for trustee remuneration

[0:13:03] Voice 6: and how a consultant might go about conducting their work.

[0:13:06] Voice 6: Is that fair?

[0:13:11] Trustee Stamford: Yeah, I just have a couple of little things that I've been thinking of, whether or not it impacts the policy or not. I think we'll come out when we're talking about the consultant's report. Thanks.

[0:13:31] Voice 6: Okay. Yeah. I think the consultant's report is really meant to look at remuneration values

[0:13:37] Voice 6: that are embedded in the policy. And so certainly if you've got thoughts and comments around that,

[0:13:43] Voice 6: we can address that at the time where we look at the business case and incorporate any changes

[0:13:46] Voice 6: that you might wish for. When it comes to the policy and the process itself, if there's changes

[0:13:51] Voice 6: related to that, now's the time to let staff know what you'd like to see.

[0:13:55] Voice 6: Okay. We'll think about it again.

[0:13:56] Voice 6: Thank

[0:14:02] Voice 11: you. So, we're going to move on from this, as my understanding, and we go to 7.2.2,

[0:14:23] Voice 11: Secretariat Business Case, RFD. Is there any discussion here?

[0:14:32] Voice 6: I think we missed 7.2.1, which is the Trustee Remuneration Review Business Case.

[0:14:42] Voice 11: apologies we did miss that i'm scrolling too fast here 7.2.1 as um cao mob says so graciously

[0:14:53] Voice 11: pointed out we have any discussion here i'll

[0:15:00] Voice 6: give a some brief comments just to uh lead the

[0:15:04] Voice 6: committee off um so there is a request for decision here at 7.2.1 seeking the governance

[0:15:10] Voice 6: committee's um resolution to advance this business case to financial planning committee

[0:15:15] Voice 6: and then hopefully to trust counsel to direct funds towards this exercise.

[0:15:20] Voice 6: So, again, as I mentioned, one of the key considerations that was coming out of the review of the UBCM guide on remuneration for boards and councils and our trustees

[0:15:32] Voice 6: is to have an independent third party review remuneration at periodic intervals.

[0:15:38] Voice 6: The recommendation is that the review would happen sort of midway or within the last year of a term of trustees with any changes taking effect at the start of the next term.

[0:15:50] Voice 6: That way, there's less likely to be bias from existing trustees to want to put in significant values that they would then benefit from in the very next pay cycle, for example.

[0:16:02] Voice 6: And so the timing is coming near.

[0:16:05] Voice 6: if Trust Council is going to undertake that work.

[0:16:08] Voice 6: Of course, now is the time to begin it

[0:16:09] Voice 6: so that we can actually have that work completed

[0:16:12] Voice 6: in time to make it effective for the start of next term.

[0:16:15] Voice 6: The business case begins on page 71 of the agenda.

[0:16:19] Voice 6: So we've taken a look at some of the Trust Council

[0:16:23] Voice 6: guiding documents that might support undertaking this work.

[0:16:26] Voice 6: So Trust Council's draft strategic plan,

[0:16:29] Voice 6: which of course was not yet reviewed by Trust Council,

[0:16:31] Voice 6: does include some language around implementing the recommendations of the governance report

[0:16:37] Voice 6: and reviewing trustee remuneration and the policy was actually one of the recommendations

[0:16:41] Voice 6: from the governance report of 2022. So that is a document that we could look to as a guide.

[0:16:50] Voice 6: Of course the governance committee's work program also includes this as a priority

[0:16:54] Voice 6: and the work priority matrix has it listed as well and FPC has already started the work.

[0:17:00] Voice 6: uh does the committee wish for me to walk through the business case in detail or should we take the

[0:17:05] Voice 6: assumption that everyone's read it and i can just respond to questions i

[0:17:10] Voice 11: see trustee bernardo has

[0:17:11] Voice 11: his hand up so maybe we'll just hear from trustee bernardo then we can go back to that if anybody

[0:17:15] Voice 11: has a wish to hear it go into more depth thank

[0:17:20] Voice 9: you for that i'm trusting bernardo

[0:17:21] Voice 9: thank you um

[0:17:23] Voice 8: yeah i uh yeah certainly i've read the uh the business case and in terms of the basic point

[0:17:31] Voice 8: which is you know making a request for funding independent consultants i mean uh i mean we've

[0:17:39] Voice 8: already talked about this before and i don't really see there being i mean we requested the

[0:17:43] Voice 8: business case because we we had already decided that we think in agreement with ubcm and all

[0:17:49] Voice 8: established decent practice that uh you know we need to have uh outside uh professional advice

[0:17:56] Voice 8: third-party independent advice when it comes up with tricky things discussions of tricky things

[0:18:02] Voice 8: like remuneration the the reason it's tricky though is because of you know and it's it this

[0:18:09] Voice 8: relates to the actual uh business case the reason it's

[0:18:12] Voice 8: tricky is because trustee remuneration

[0:18:15] Voice 8: remuneration is obviously an issue that has kind of an inherent conflict of interest issue or

[0:18:20] Voice 8: at a minimum an appearance of conflict of interest issue uh so that's why we need the

[0:18:25] Voice 8: independent advice uh i think in terms of just as an exercise as a business case i think the

[0:18:35] Voice 8: discussions of options one and two in the business case um you know there are references to ubcm but

[0:18:41] Voice 8: i think we need to go to they need to have at least a brief reference to the substance of

[0:18:45] Voice 8: the rationale here which is to say the independent consultant is required to address the question of

[0:18:55] Voice 8: a potential conflict of interest or an appearance of conflict of interest.

[0:18:59] Voice 8: That's why option one, I mean, what option one does, it addresses that risk. Option two

[0:19:06] Voice 8: is basically creates that risk. So I think that dynamic needs to be

[0:19:13] Voice 8: fleshed out just a little bit with a few sentences in options one and two.

[0:19:17] Voice 8: That's kind of the minor point. The larger point I've got to make is the language

[0:19:21] Voice 8: of the business case talks, as you mentioned before,

[0:19:24] Voice 8: Director Mobs, and this is a question that is

[0:19:27] Voice 8: going to be directed to you, the language

[0:19:29] Voice 8: in the request here talks about compensation

[0:19:33] Voice 8: levels being revised, compensation values.

[0:19:37] Voice 8: It mentions methodology

[0:19:39] Voice 8: in passing, but I'm just wondering, it's not

[0:19:42] Voice 8: explicitly stated that it, in fact, would be examined.

[0:19:45] Voice 8: And it seems to me that we don't just

[0:19:48] Voice 8: I just want, this is my opinion on this, that we just don't want an independent consultant running through the numbers to come up with, you know, using the existing methodology.

[0:19:58] Voice 8: But I think we want the methodology itself reviewed because that may be a source of some inequities here.

[0:20:05] Voice 8: That's where we need the advice.

[0:20:06] Voice 8: That's where we need the insight.

[0:20:07] Voice 8: So could you address that?

[0:20:09] Voice 8: I mean, does this request for funding the business case, is it drafted in anticipation that the methodology be looked at?

[0:20:20] Voice 8: or not? Thank you

[0:20:26] Voice 11: for your question.

[0:20:29] Voice 6: Thanks, Chair. I can respond to that.

[0:20:32] Voice 6: This type of exercise is likely to begin as a benchmarking exercise. So a consultant will come

[0:20:41] Voice 6: in, look at other jurisdictions to see what is being paid to their elected officials, make any

[0:20:45] Voice 6: adjustments as needed for any of the unique aspects of Islands Trust compared to those

[0:20:49] Voice 6: particular jurisdictions, and then assess our current remuneration against those normalized

[0:20:56] Voice 6: benchmarked figures. If there is a need for significant change from what our current

[0:21:04] Voice 6: remuneration figures are, it would then lend itself to say the methodology for annual increases

[0:21:10] Voice 6: that is built into our policy must not be sound because our starting figure in 2010

[0:21:16] Voice 6: that then had the methodology applied has not landed where it's supposed to land.

[0:21:21] Voice 6: And so I think that would be a natural fallout and certainly something that we could ask a consultant to do in any case, review the numbers themselves and then review the methodology that's applied for increases on an annual basis.

[0:21:34] Voice 6: Both of those requests are perfectly reasonable of a consultant, and I would expect that a good consultant would undertake both.

[0:21:42] Voice 8: Well, it seems to me, if I may follow up briefly, I would strongly favor doing both at one off rather than staggering it.

[0:21:51] Voice 8: I mean, there's enough delay in this sort of stuff that we don't want to drag it out.

[0:21:54] Voice 8: And it seems to me it's likely to be an obvious question.

[0:21:57] Voice 8: Is the methodology still appropriate?

[0:21:59] Voice 8: So I would like the business case to explicitly identify that reassessing the values, but also reassessing the methodology would be the task for the consultant.

[0:22:12] Voice 8: Thank you.

[0:22:14] Voice 6: I can make that clear.

[0:22:15] Voice 6: Thanks, Trustee Bernardo.

[0:22:19] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:22:20] Voice 11: That does seem very important.

[0:22:22] Voice 11: Trustee Peterson has his hand up.

[0:22:25] Voice 11: please go ahead thank

[0:22:27] Voice 10: you chair um yeah just to circle back to uh trustee stamford's question

[0:22:33] Voice 10: in the earlier item which i believe was about um uh trustee input um uh to to uh prospective

[0:22:46] Voice 10: prospective consultant. And I just wonder, CO, if you have any thoughts about that,

[0:22:57] Voice 10: how that could work. Yes,

[0:23:03] Voice 6: I can provide those. So I know in 2010, the consultant did

[0:23:08] Voice 6: conduct some interviews with trustees, or at least I've looked at their report and it alludes to

[0:23:13] Voice 6: that. Of course, I wasn't around in 2010. And it would make some sense because the consultant,

[0:23:18] Voice 6: in order to do any benchmarking exercises would have to understand what the work of a trustee

[0:23:24] Voice 6: looks like. And so there would need to be some conversation with trustees to understand

[0:23:28] Voice 6: level of work that's associated with being an elected trustee, how much work is associated with

[0:23:33] Voice 6: the local work as opposed to trust council work versus committee work, etc. Certainly we can set

[0:23:41] Voice 6: the scope of the engagement with a consultant. So if we would like to require that a consultant

[0:23:46] Voice 6: and speak to trustees just to be very clear and make sure that that happens.

[0:23:50] Voice 6: That's absolutely something we can build into the contract.

[0:23:55] Voice 10: Yeah, if I could just follow up.

[0:23:57] Voice 10: I think that's a good idea.

[0:24:00] Voice 10: I'm not certain what items Trustee Stamford was thinking about there,

[0:24:07] Voice 10: but I think there's also, from my point of view,

[0:24:11] Voice 10: there's one of the reasons that I support this review

[0:24:14] Voice 10: view is is really around the uh equity of participation from island community members

[0:24:20] Voice 10: um we know that trust council tends to skew uh a little older and maybe a little bit more

[0:24:29] Voice 10: financially secure and uh i guess my biggest concern around that is that is that we're not

[0:24:36] Voice 10: Not having as much participation from the wider, you know, a diverse spectrum of island residents, age-wise, young families, all of that, right up to where we presently skew to.

[0:24:57] Voice 10: too. So I think it'd be great if we could find ways to make that. Certainly remuneration isn't

[0:25:05] Voice 10: the whole question, but I think it's part of the question that makes those decisions for

[0:25:12] Voice 10: individuals being able to participate as trustees viable or less viable. So

[0:25:19] Voice 11: thank you.

[0:25:21] Voice 11: Thank you, Trustee Peterson. Very well put. Trustee Stanford, please go ahead.

[0:25:25] Voice 11: Thank

[0:25:26] Trustee Stamford: you, Chair. I don't want to get into the deep dive on this. I don't think it's the place for it. But in addition to Trustee Peterson's aspects of the outline, which does seem to be an obvious concern as we look around the table,

[0:25:45] Trustee Stamford: What I was thinking of is whether or not the impact of group or corporate properties have an impact on remuneration in the math of it.

[0:26:03] Trustee Stamford: And I'm not sure if this applies to all islands, but our local trust area has significant areas of populations that are not counted because they're on one property.

[0:26:16] Trustee Stamford: And because they're not full time, they're not counted in the population stats either.

[0:26:23] Trustee Stamford: And yet the level of planning and activity that goes into supporting those properties can be quite significant.

[0:26:31] Trustee Stamford: So it's corporate entities and the large properties that have leaseholders as opposed to separate property holders. So I'm just looking for a way to be able to express that and find out if that actually has an impact on remuneration or not, and whether or not that is something that is significant in other areas, and not just in the Gambier Local Justice Committee.

[0:26:57] Trustee Stamford: So that's sort of the angle I was going to and hoping to have the opportunity to speak further about or at least discuss what the impact actually is or not. I'm not wedded to any particular answer on that. Just want to have that discussion.

[0:27:14] Voice 11: Thank you, Trustee Stamford. Definitely sounds very important. Trustee Patrick, please go ahead.

[0:27:21] Trustee Patrick: Well, I think perhaps Director Mobs will be able to direct answer this. Today, what I think we're trying to make sure is that is the 8,000 that is in the business case adequate to do the work that we think needs to be done.

[0:27:36] Trustee Patrick: When the budget, if the budget's approved in March, there would then need to be a whole, you know, terms of reference created and go out. So, I think that's the next step. So, I think the question would be, is the $8,000 that's in here adequate for the type of breadth that is being talked about here? I think that's the question.

[0:28:05] Voice 9: Julia?

[0:28:05] Voice 9: Leah?

[0:28:09] Voice 6: So the $8,000 is an estimate. So we mentioned in the business case that we haven't

[0:28:14] Voice 6: done any sort of real market assessment yet. We haven't gone out to the market to request

[0:28:19] Voice 6: any draft quotes to see how close we might be with this number. We have looked at some other

[0:28:26] Voice 6: contract work that we've undertaken sort of in recent years to see if this might be a reasonable

[0:28:32] Voice 6: assessment. I also have a pretty good understanding of what the work might entail. Benchmarking is

[0:28:37] Voice 6: something I'm quite familiar with and then having a look at the methodology especially in comparison

[0:28:41] Voice 6: to other jurisdictions. So I feel like that is reasonable but if anything would be on the low

[0:28:49] Voice 6: end of reasonable we you know eight to ten thousand dollars is a possibility. I did note in

[0:28:56] Voice 6: the business case that one of the risk factors is that any potential dollar amount might come in a

[0:29:01] Voice 6: bit higher. We do have some flexibility in our approved budget every year to overspend a little

[0:29:07] Voice 6: little bit as needed as long as it's not too significant magnitudes and you know sort of two

[0:29:13] Voice 6: to four thousand dollars wouldn't be putting us in any hot water certainly if the committee is

[0:29:17] Voice 6: looking to have a much more in-depth analysis you could look to maybe increasing that number

[0:29:24] Voice 6: to about ten thousand dollars to feel safe and then if we understand that's great that's no

[0:29:27] Voice 6: problem at all since i have the floor chair could i comment briefly on trustee stamford's earlier

[0:29:43] Voice 6: comments chair

[0:29:49] Voice 10: you're being addressed it looks like he might be frozen i

[0:29:57] Voice 6: think so maybe

[0:30:00] Voice 6: i'll just

[0:30:00] Voice 6: provide my comments then while we wait for him um so the current uh remuneration

[0:30:07] Voice 6: uh methodology it does incorporate both numbers of folios in each local trust area as well as

[0:30:17] Voice 6: population numbers um population of course is something that is only as reliable as the data

[0:30:25] Voice 6: that's submitted into it so we use um stats canada information the you know consensus

[0:30:30] Voice 6: information that's received um but if you know islanders aren't reporting um into that census

[0:30:38] Voice 6: or aren't reporting accurate figures of course that would impact that number but it's difficult

[0:30:43] Voice 6: to find an alternate source of data that we would consider more reliable so when we're looking

[0:30:49] Voice 6: particularly at population i think that is the best source of data a number of land folios comes

[0:30:54] Voice 6: from bc assessment i think is also quite reliable um but of course doesn't take into account

[0:30:59] Voice 6: potentially a number of people who might be living on that folio to indicate that may or may not have

[0:31:05] Voice 6: reported into the census um so you know i think the methodology is found in that way but is it

[0:31:11] Voice 6: perfect uh not really but a consultant could certainly provide their thoughts as to whether

[0:31:15] Voice 6: or not they thought there was alternate data points that could be used thank you thank you

[0:31:25] Voice 11: um trustee bernardo uh thank you

[0:31:28] Voice 8: um yeah um i'm grateful for uh director mobs's comments because

[0:31:34] Voice 8: uh it it kind of zeroes in on some points here i mean for for fpc purposes um the business case

[0:31:44] Voice 8: actually needs to i i think it would be helpful if the business case could be amended somewhat

[0:31:48] Voice 8: to become more specific about these different areas that trustees want looked into and also

[0:31:53] Voice 8: to specifically identify that there's a the review will include a component that involves

[0:32:01] Voice 8: input from trustees but in addition to just saying input from trustees i think

[0:32:05] Voice 8: the the two points that trustee stamford peterson made i think deserve to be stated explicitly

[0:32:13] Voice 8: addressing trustee peterson's uh point yeah there's a there's a there's an issue there about

[0:32:20] Voice 8: equity it's related to equity but also equated to sort of good governance the idea of making sure

[0:32:26] Voice 8: that we have a governance arrangement that maximizes the opportunities uh within reasonable

[0:32:33] Voice 8: ranges to the extent that it's feasible maximize the opportunities for people who you know um who

[0:32:41] Voice 8: may not have you know their separate income stream or frankly i don't i'll cut to the chase i mean

[0:32:46] Voice 8: the trust council and trustees ought not to be the exclusive preserve of people who can afford it

[0:32:51] Voice 8: because they're retired or otherwise have money, other people for whom it would otherwise be an

[0:32:57] Voice 8: economic challenge, we ought to try to accommodate to the extent that that's reasonable. And I think

[0:33:01] Voice 8: some specific language, not the clumsy collection of words I've used, but some specific language

[0:33:08] Voice 8: that addresses that concern, I think is worth putting into the business case specifically,

[0:33:13] Voice 8: because when it gets to FPC and also gets to trust counsel, that's what's persuasive and

[0:33:19] Voice 8: and meaningful and helps trustees make decisions

[0:33:22] Voice 8: is a tangible reason to do a thing.

[0:33:25] Voice 8: And that's a very tangible and important governance point.

[0:33:28] Voice 8: So that's one.

[0:33:30] Voice 8: So is the much, Trustee Stamford's point,

[0:33:33] Voice 8: which I think is much more directed

[0:33:34] Voice 8: at just a simple fairness aspect of it.

[0:33:38] Voice 8: The current methodology of using folios

[0:33:41] Voice 8: and populations as metrics

[0:33:44] Voice 8: in terms of determining compensation,

[0:33:46] Voice 8: compensation, they're there because they're treated as proxies for the amount of work that

[0:33:51] Voice 8: is expected to be coming from the trustees. That may or may not be true to some extent,

[0:34:00] Voice 8: but it doesn't take into account the volunteer component of it, the amount of work that some

[0:34:06] Voice 8: trustees put into committee work or into the work they put in at the trust council level.

[0:34:12] Voice 8: I don't have any great ideas about whether or not there's a better methodology, but I think

[0:34:17] Voice 8: to the extent that the business case refers to a need to undertake a review of the methodology as

[0:34:23] Voice 8: well as the values, I think it would be very helpful to raise the points that Trustee Sanford

[0:34:31] Voice 8: had identified as illustrations of a fairness or an equity component that needs to be looked into.

[0:34:38] Voice 8: to. And if we do expand the business case to be more specific that way, at that point, I think

[0:34:47] Voice 8: it becomes, it does make more sense because then we're actually, by describing the breadth of the

[0:34:54] Voice 8: work, we're describing making it easier for trustees on FPC and trust counsel to recognize

[0:35:04] Voice 8: the value of what they're spending and I think it makes sense at that point given the breadth of

[0:35:08] Voice 8: what we're talking about here today to increase it to ten thousand dollars. Thank you.

[0:35:15] Voice 11: Thank you

[0:35:16] Voice 11: Trustee Bernardo. Do you have something to add to that CAO?

[0:35:24] Voice 6: Just briefly in response to a couple

[0:35:27] Voice 6: of the comments from Trustee Bernardo. So the trustee remuneration the portion that's paid to

[0:35:33] Voice 6: to trustees for their local work

[0:35:34] Voice 6: is based on folios and population.

[0:35:37] Voice 6: There is a separate pay component

[0:35:39] Voice 6: for work of trust council.

[0:35:41] Voice 6: And that amount is not based on portfolios or population.

[0:35:47] Voice 6: It's just a base amount that increases each year

[0:35:49] Voice 6: in line with inflation.

[0:35:52] Voice 6: Meeting remuneration, it was acknowledged

[0:35:55] Voice 6: that council committees were remunerated

[0:35:57] Voice 6: a number of years ago.

[0:35:58] Voice 6: And so now there is meeting remuneration, $150 or $100, I think.

[0:36:04] Voice 6: So those values would also be examined by a consultant to see if they are fair and equitable or need to be updated.

[0:36:12] Voice 6: So certainly, I think, you know, just building into the contract that a consultant would review and advise on whether or not our methodology is appropriate or if there's alternate ways to go about it, I think is fine.

[0:36:24] Voice 6: A lot of specifics would probably come up in any interviews with trustees.

[0:36:29] Voice 6: um you know we i don't think we can outline all the specifics in sort of terms of reference or

[0:36:34] Voice 6: scope of work for a consultant but um if they're conducting interviews with trustees those would

[0:36:39] Voice 6: pop out and a consultant should be addressing them at that point um very open to increasing

[0:36:44] Voice 6: the dollar value um we would look for a resolution to do that thank

[0:36:52] Voice 11: you julia trustee patrick please

[0:36:57] Voice 11: please go ahead.

[0:36:58] Trustee Patrick: I'm going to make that resolution.

[0:37:00] Trustee Patrick: I move that the business case

[0:37:05] Trustee Patrick: for trustee remuneration review be amended to $10,000.

[0:37:13] Voice 9: I second the motion.

[0:37:24] Voice 11: Okay, I'm trying to,

[0:37:26] Voice 11: I've got a Zoom thing here, pardon me,

[0:37:28] Voice 11: but I can't see how I'm supposed to raise my hand up.

[0:37:35] Voice 1: Trustee Harris, David here.

[0:37:40] Voice 1: It should be either participation or reactions.

[0:37:44] Voice 1: And if you want to see everybody's hands,

[0:37:47] Voice 1: you can click on participation and it'll list everybody

[0:37:51] Voice 1: and it'll give you the hands up there as well.

[0:37:54] Voice 1: For

[0:37:57] Voice 11: some reason, I don't seem to have that here.

[0:37:59] Voice 11: I have react, full, medium, or hidden.

[0:38:05] Voice 11: Look under react.

[0:38:06] Voice 11: It's on.

[0:38:08] Voice 11: Or participants.

[0:38:09] Voice 11: Okay, I'm under there and I'm on full.

[0:38:15] Voice 11: And again, I apologize.

[0:38:22] Voice 1: for the voting i can help you with counting the votes i can see them here and uh okay great

[0:38:29] Voice 11: helps well

[0:38:30] Voice 11: thanks so we so we have motions on the floor and it's been seconded um so we'll um

[0:38:37] Voice 11: put that up to a vote now um all in favor well

[0:38:43] Voice 8: i think i think now that it's on the floor i think

[0:38:46] Voice 8: the regular procedures sorry

[0:38:47] Voice 11: is there a discussion yes i'm very sorry yes um any discussion on the

[0:38:52] Voice 11: motion thank you uh

[0:38:56] Voice 3: trustee yeah no

[0:38:59] Trustee Patrick: i i think um seeing that this hasn't been done in close to 15

[0:39:04] Trustee Patrick: years um i think uh increasing the value uh to make sure that there is sufficient money to do

[0:39:10] Trustee Patrick: the review up to the nature that we've been talking about today is prudent thank you for

[0:39:24] Voice 11: that trustee patrick is

[0:39:25] Voice 1: there any other

[0:39:25] Voice 11: discussion i'm not seeing any hands um what will vote all in

[0:39:30] Voice 11: favor i

[0:39:41] Voice 3: see four

[0:39:42] Voice 11: hands in favor

[0:39:43] Voice 3: so

[0:39:45] Voice 11: the motion would carry um any opposed

[0:39:57] Voice 3: yeah thank

[0:40:06] Voice 10: you chair um so just in respect of our earlier conversation i prepared a motion

[0:40:13] Voice 10: motion for our consideration. Just there it's in the chat. So I move that governance committee

[0:40:24] Voice 10: amend the business case by including the following points, enabling equitable participation

[0:40:29] Voice 10: slash representation, evaluation of methodology and trustee input. Is

[0:40:39] Voice 11: there a seconder for that

[0:40:40] Voice 11: motion?

[0:40:43] Voice 8: I see trustee Sanford violently making bunny ears. So I think that's that's her.

[0:40:49] Voice 8: Okay.

[0:40:50] Voice 11: Thank you, Trustee Stanford. Would you like to speak to your motion, Trustee Peterson?

[0:40:59] Voice 10: I think this is just reflecting the conversation we've already had.

[0:41:05] Voice 11: Great. So we'll call for a vote. All in favor?

[0:41:21] Voice 1: That's four in favor and five to Harris. And there's five members able to vote.

[0:41:27] Voice 1: Thank you. Great.

[0:41:32] Voice 11: That motion carries. I don't see any opposed.

[0:41:39] Voice 11: Trustee Morado, is your hand up?

[0:41:50] Voice 11: Well,

[0:42:00] Voice 9: I don't see

[0:42:00] Voice 8: anybody else seems to have anything else to say about this.

[0:42:03] Voice 8: I mean, we also need to have a resolution to move

[0:42:07] Voice 8: the request forward, do we not?

[0:42:11] Voice 11: Okay. I was waiting to hear from you. I saw your

[0:42:13] Voice 11: hand was up. Oh, sorry. Yes.

[0:42:17] Trustee Patrick: Page

[0:42:17] Voice 11: 69. All right. Would somebody like

[0:42:24] Voice 11: like to make that motion.

[0:42:27] Voice 1: And if I may, for the person making

[0:42:29] Voice 1: it, this is David, through the chair. Because there's been amendments, I would suggest

[0:42:33] Voice 1: you add as amended to the resolution.

[0:42:42] Voice 11: We don't need to have a resolution to add as amended, or

[0:42:46] Voice 11: I guess just add that. Whoever's reading it, please add that.

[0:42:50] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:42:52] Voice 3: Yeah, that's correct. Thank you.

[0:42:59] Voice 10: I'm prepared to

[0:43:00] Voice 10: make the resolution. I move that Governance

[0:43:05] Voice 10: committee a forward or approve the trustee remuneration review business case and forward

[0:43:10] Voice 10: to financial planning committee for inclusion in the 2025 20 well let's see i'll try again

[0:43:19] Voice 10: that the governance committee approved the trustee remuneration review business case as amended and

[0:43:24] Voice 10: forward to financial planning committee for inclusion in the 2025 26 fiscal year budget

[0:43:29] Voice 10: it

[0:43:34] Voice 11: right about it i second um thank you trustee bernardo is there any discussion here i'm assuming

[0:43:43] Voice 11: not um but i'll wait for a second to see anybody so um that to a vote all in favor

[0:43:52] Voice 11: it's like that motion carries yeah that's four in favor opposed thank you thank you very much

[0:44:08] Voice 11: so on to 7.2.2 the secretary of business case um julia do you have something to add

[0:44:16] Voice 11: or some information uh

[0:44:17] Voice 6: this is actually director marler who's brought this forward today so i'd

[0:44:21] Voice 6: offer uh over to him yeah

[0:44:25] Voice 1: thank you yeah thank you uh so this was requested by governance committee

[0:44:32] Voice 1: as you can see on page 76 uh requesting to prepare a funding request for the next

[0:44:38] Voice 1: fiscal for investigation of a secretary of its staff position to trust council and this

[0:44:45] Voice 1: This comes out of the governance review

[0:44:48] Voice 1: and the business case is attached.

[0:44:51] Voice 1: It starts on page 78 of the agenda.

[0:44:58] Voice 1: The dollars here are really a bit of a guess

[0:45:04] Voice 1: because there's not really much scope

[0:45:07] Voice 1: around the kind of work that you'd be looking for

[0:45:10] Voice 1: or the types of consultants that you'd be looking for.

[0:45:13] Voice 1: so for example i put in 10 000 here for a consultant and 5 000 for potential legal

[0:45:21] Voice 1: review of whatever the consultants might recommend before you take them to council

[0:45:27] Voice 1: you probably would like to make sure it's something that we can include legally or do

[0:45:33] Voice 1: legally the um ten thousand dollars it depends on the kinds of consultants you get but

[0:45:39] Voice 1: But at the caliber of, say, Great Northern Management, who did the last work, you'd probably be looking at about 40 hours roughly of time for that amount of money.

[0:45:50] Voice 1: And again, I don't know exactly what would be involved in this.

[0:45:54] Voice 1: So it's really difficult to come up with numbers.

[0:45:58] Voice 1: This business case does need some more work in it.

[0:46:01] Voice 1: and it would be helpful if this could be scoped a little bit more

[0:46:05] Voice 1: to be more specific in exactly what we're asking the consultants to do

[0:46:12] Voice 1: so we can either increase or decrease the dollars accordingly

[0:46:15] Voice 1: as well as helps us when we're creating a contract

[0:46:23] Voice 1: and request for proposals to go out on the market.

[0:46:28] Voice 1: so I have put in here some of the things that I think should be considered so under issues

[0:46:35] Voice 1: opportunity I've reprinted from the Great Northern Management Consultants report what they had to say

[0:46:42] Voice 1: about this position and then a little bit about the current position so the current position is

[0:46:50] Voice 1: secretary is appointed by council under the Islands Trust Act along with the other positions

[0:46:57] Voice 1: that are listed there on page 79 and so this is something I think council wants to look at

[0:47:06] Voice 1: um so yeah it's it really is difficult to to scale it down given a the you know to to sculpt

[0:47:15] Voice 1: this out without a little bit more information about specifically what is it that council would

[0:47:20] Voice 1: like this position to do that's different to the way it's operating right now and what that

[0:47:25] Voice 1: And maybe that's what it is.

[0:47:27] Voice 1: Maybe council doesn't know.

[0:47:28] Voice 1: And these dollars are to get a consultant to come in and help council to do that.

[0:47:34] Voice 1: So anyway, it's here.

[0:47:37] Voice 1: I think it would be good if this committee could maybe try and think a little bit about that.

[0:47:43] Voice 1: And we can make changes to this business case to reflect those thoughts.

[0:47:50] Voice 1: thoughts and i really do think a consultant is needed because i don't think something staff

[0:47:55] Voice 1: could take on um partly from a perspective position and partly from a capacity uh position

[0:48:06] Voice 1: okay so back to the chair and i'll try and ask any questions about this thank

[0:48:11] Voice 11: you um chair luckham

[0:48:13] Voice 11: and trustee peterson a ccao mob says her hand up would you guys like to um her thoughts prior

[0:48:20] Voice 11: to speak or um you'd rather speak first i'd

[0:48:25] Trustee Luckham: uh be happy to hear from uh ceo mobs and

[0:48:30] Trustee Luckham: defer to her unless she would rather defer to the political voice

[0:48:35] Voice 11: please go ahead ceo moms if you're if you'd like

[0:48:39] Voice 11: thanks

[0:48:40] Voice 6: chair yeah just a few comments the supplements uh dr marler's review um the scope

[0:48:47] Voice 6: of this work is unclear to staff because the recommendation from the consultants is not clear

[0:48:53] Voice 6: to staff. There is a secretary that exists at Islands Trust. The secretary is a person appointed

[0:49:02] Voice 6: by Trust Council. The secretary being a staff person does the work of Trust Council, albeit

[0:49:08] Voice 6: through the CAO. And the one thing that the consultants report did say is this person should

[0:49:13] Voice 6: report directly to trust council and not go through the cao um but we we've reached out to

[0:49:20] Voice 6: i think trustee middleton has been a real champion for this particular recommendation

[0:49:24] Voice 6: um seems to have an understanding that doesn't isn't shared by everybody i'll say that um it's

[0:49:31] Voice 6: unfortunate i don't think he's at this meeting today we have asked him to provide um some

[0:49:36] Voice 6: examples of where he sees this sort of thing occurring elsewhere within british columbia

[0:49:41] Voice 6: we don't yet have that information unfortunately um but it seems as if the recommendation is very

[0:49:47] Voice 6: very close to what already exists at islands trust um and so it might not be a top priority

[0:49:52] Voice 6: um but if there's a different understanding of what this recommendation is that perhaps

[0:49:56] Voice 6: staff don't understand now it's the time for this committee to be to be raising that so we can all

[0:50:01] Voice 6: come to a common shared understanding of what this recommendation is and what work we actually want

[0:50:06] Voice 6: want to undertake to respond to it. That's all from me.

[0:50:12] Voice 11: Thank you very much for that, Julia.

[0:50:14] Voice 11: Chair Luckum, please go ahead.

[0:50:17] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, thank you. You know, I guess the

[0:50:23] Trustee Luckham: reason for this business case being here is that if there is a desire to act on this recommendation

[0:50:32] Trustee Luckham: recommendation uh in the consultant's report and the advocacy of uh trustee middleton then it's

[0:50:40] Trustee Luckham: this is the time to include your budget item in there and so i don't necessarily have uh issues

[0:50:47] Trustee Luckham: with creating a holding place i don't know what financial planning committee chair thinks of that

[0:50:52] Trustee Luckham: but create a holding place for that at some point that could be confirmed as to whether or not

[0:50:57] Trustee Luckham: there's a desire to spend the money or not. But having heard from others already today,

[0:51:03] Trustee Luckham: and after speaking with the chair yesterday in preparation for this meeting,

[0:51:09] Trustee Luckham: the direction and request is unclear. And I don't know whether or not we necessarily agree with the

[0:51:21] Trustee Luckham: consultant's report, particularly given that we've not really had a thorough discussion about

[0:51:25] Trustee Luckham: the governance report, the aspects of it that we support or not. Lee Middleton has been the key

[0:51:32] Trustee Luckham: advocate for this. And unfortunately, he's absent. There was some anticipation he might be here at

[0:51:38] Trustee Luckham: three o'clock today, and he may be able to enlighten us on the necessity for this work.

[0:51:45] Trustee Luckham: But I think it's inappropriate that staff be put in a place to make any recommendations

[0:51:52] Trustee Luckham: associated with the business case, particularly if we're going to go out to tender, you need to

[0:51:57] Trustee Luckham: tell people what it is that you want. It's not clear to me the legality of the role. And is there

[0:52:04] Trustee Luckham: somebody in a legislative services role, perhaps even at the provincial government, that could

[0:52:11] Trustee Luckham: advise us on the applicability of this suggestion that came from the governance report with much

[0:52:19] Trustee Luckham: more federal understanding than local government provincial understanding. We have written to the

[0:52:26] Trustee Luckham: province at this time to ask for assistance in understanding the governance and perhaps

[0:52:34] Trustee Luckham: changing the governance model at the Alice Trust. This may or may not be relevant to that,

[0:52:40] Trustee Luckham: so I'm not comfortable with advancing this with completely inadequate information at this time

[0:52:48] Trustee Luckham: about what it is that we're asking for

[0:52:50] Trustee Luckham: and what the purpose of it is.

[0:52:53] Trustee Luckham: So that's my two cents.

[0:52:54] Trustee Luckham: Thank you.

[0:52:57] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair.

[0:52:58] Voice 11: Welcome.

[0:53:00] Voice 11: Trustee Peterson, please go ahead.

[0:53:03] Voice 10: Thank you, Chair.

[0:53:06] Voice 10: Yeah, it is unfortunate that Trustee Middleton's

[0:53:09] Voice 10: not here today.

[0:53:10] Voice 10: He has been the champion of this particular,

[0:53:14] Voice 10: advancing this particular recommendation

[0:53:17] Voice 10: from the governance report.

[0:53:19] Voice 10: port um it's nice to know that i'm not alone and not fully understanding what uh the proposed role

[0:53:29] Voice 10: of this position would be um and when i look at the business case itself on page 80 under critical

[0:53:38] Voice 10: success factors uh one of them is the recruitment of the consultant but the other one i think is

[0:53:46] Voice 10: is very important, which is clear understanding

[0:53:48] Voice 10: of the desired outcomes by Trust Council.

[0:53:51] Voice 10: Without a clear understanding of what those desired outcomes are,

[0:53:55] Voice 10: how are we to direct staff to, you know,

[0:54:01] Voice 10: set up the terms of reference for this consultancy work?

[0:54:05] Voice 10: I feel like there's an information gap

[0:54:08] Voice 10: from my personal understanding of this request that,

[0:54:13] Voice 10: That, well, I wouldn't stand in the way of this work happening, let's put it that way, but it's hard for me to support it without really having a clear understanding of what's the function and purpose of this, other than that it's been identified in this governance report.

[0:54:37] Voice 11: Thank you.

[0:54:40] Voice 11: Thank you, Trustee Peterson.

[0:54:41] Voice 11: Trustee Bernardo, you're next on the speaker's list.

[0:54:45] Voice 8: Thank you.

[0:54:47] Voice 8: um i i can understand why people are a little perplexed and it is unfortunate that trustee

[0:54:53] Voice 8: milton isn't here since it is something that he has like uh been kind of leading the charge on

[0:54:59] Voice 8: but um the reasons for it i mean he's been leading on the charge on it the charge on it because he's

[0:55:06] Voice 8: taking his inspiration for what's actually in the governance review and the recommendation and

[0:55:10] Voice 8: that's something that has tickled his attention i guess but um you know it'd be better if he was

[0:55:16] Voice 8: here but the reality is you know we've all read the governance review and you know it's there's a

[0:55:20] Voice 8: lot in there and i guess maybe you have not remember it but the reason for this is actually

[0:55:25] Voice 8: spelled out in the governance review uh and yes staff does this work already but the point that

[0:55:34] Voice 8: was made in the governance review is staff is not independent of the cao uh staff is and uh the

[0:55:42] Voice 8: the identified need was that trust council ought to have independent advice

[0:55:47] Voice 8: separate from the CAO in terms of its role and its function.

[0:55:52] Voice 8: And that's where this corporate secretary comes into it.

[0:55:55] Voice 8: And that jumps off from the point that both the corporate secretary and the

[0:55:59] Voice 8: treasurer are independent. They're not really those roles.

[0:56:04] Voice 8: They may be employees that are within the, the staff existing staff,

[0:56:09] Voice 8: staff structure, but they are,

[0:56:11] Voice 8: they're statutory appointments that trust council is responsible for we do have a kind of tension

[0:56:17] Voice 8: that needs to be um puzzled out here and uh and after i'm finished with my remarks and appreciate

[0:56:24] Voice 8: if somebody on staff perhaps director margaret can explain something here but i mean in the um

[0:56:29] Voice 8: the business case um there's mentioned that you know the secretary and the treasurer are required

[0:56:37] Voice 8: to report the cao uh well in their capacities as employees as staff employees okay that's there

[0:56:47] Voice 8: but uh it seems a little odd to me that um there is no comment there about the fact that they are

[0:56:57] Voice 8: appointees of trust council and one would think uh if they're being appointed by trust council

[0:57:03] Voice 8: because they have specific roles to perform

[0:57:06] Voice 8: for the benefit of Trust Council directly.

[0:57:10] Voice 8: And it follows from that,

[0:57:14] Voice 8: that they ought to be reporting to Trust Council as well

[0:57:18] Voice 8: so that there's some form of direct accountability

[0:57:21] Voice 8: to the ultimate customer, so to speak,

[0:57:25] Voice 8: which is of the corporate secretary,

[0:57:27] Voice 8: which is to say Trust Council.

[0:57:28] Voice 8: So there's a tension there that needs to be explained

[0:57:31] Voice 8: between our current position and our current policies

[0:57:33] Voice 8: that make the secretary and the treasurer employees

[0:57:37] Voice 8: who simply report up the pyramid to the CAO

[0:57:40] Voice 8: and the fact that they're actually employees of trust counsel.

[0:57:43] Voice 8: That needs to be sorted out.

[0:57:44] Voice 8: And it may be that a consultant's advice is something

[0:57:46] Voice 8: that we need in that respect.

[0:57:48] Voice 8: But the reason for this is what we're really trying to do,

[0:57:53] Voice 8: I think, with this is answer some questions.

[0:57:56] Voice 8: Governance review is talking about there's a need

[0:57:58] Voice 8: for independent advice.

[0:57:59] Voice 8: and we don't have a model to work with with that and we don't none of us really has the

[0:58:05] Voice 8: the knowledge or the experience with that i mean i and others could talk about what it's like in

[0:58:10] Voice 8: the corporate world and you know um corporate secretary reports to the you know um board of

[0:58:18] Voice 8: directors and you know not necessarily to the ceo so i mean it's that kind of thing but i'm not sure

[0:58:24] Voice 8: that's portable or that translates like that. So it's really the independence point. And if you'll

[0:58:29] Voice 8: recall, Trustee Middleton, when he's talked about it, he has a conception that independent advice

[0:58:36] Voice 8: function would also be merged with the role of having a general counsel. And his conception is

[0:58:40] Voice 8: that it would be a general counsel and corporate secretary. And I confess, I'm pretty attracted to

[0:58:44] Voice 8: that idea myself, because as you've heard me go on at any number of times, I think it'd be valuable

[0:58:50] Voice 8: for us to have in-house legal counsel so i'm not saying that any of these and i'm not saying the

[0:58:56] Voice 8: business case should be framed in a way that it advocates for any of these things uh what am i

[0:59:03] Voice 8: i'm contemplating and my understanding of it is it's uh we want the consultant um to provide it

[0:59:09] Voice 8: provide us with professional advice on the advisability and the feasibility of going down

[0:59:15] Voice 8: on that path and to sort of uh unpack uh those tensions and those questions and as the business

[0:59:21] Voice 8: case points out in passing but i think it's and director marla made the point and i think it's

[0:59:26] Voice 8: but i think it's very important for us to bear in mind this is not work that that um it's useful

[0:59:33] Voice 8: to ask staff to do um it is fundamentally a kind of governance slash political sort of issue but

[0:59:42] Voice 8: But more important than that, staff has got plenty to do already.

[0:59:46] Voice 8: This would be a complicated bit of research.

[0:59:49] Voice 8: It requires a certain amount of expertise.

[0:59:52] Voice 8: It's just that much more efficient to hand it off to a consultant.

[0:59:57] Voice 8: I mean, it's not for staff to fill in these blanks, which are, you know.

[1:00:00] Voice 8: to answer these questions anyhow that's what it seems like to me that this business case is really

[1:00:04] Voice 8: a a matter of posing questions that we need answered uh to help make the decision about

[1:00:09] Voice 8: whether we want to go down that path or not thank you thank

[1:00:14] Voice 11: you trustee bernardo that was very well

[1:00:15] Voice 11: put um will we hear from director marler from any comments from trustee bernardo's um remarks

[1:00:22] Voice 1: uh yeah sure through the chair um there's nothing uh trustee bernardo said that i would disagree

[1:00:29] Voice 1: agree with as a staff person the one thing that's on my mind is that the legislation does require

[1:00:36] Voice 1: that positions be appointed and those are positions that i've listed in the business case

[1:00:42] Voice 1: which is the secretary and treasurer and council does have a bylaw where they actually appointed

[1:00:47] Voice 1: a violent enforcement officer as a officer as well and one way you can look at that is that's

[1:00:54] Voice 1: obviously for the reasons of the legislation that requires secretary and treasurer to do certain

[1:00:59] Voice 1: things which we obviously do but maybe this is the area that you want to explore is maybe we

[1:01:08] Voice 1: already have the structure you know my advice as secretary could be independent to the

[1:01:16] Voice 1: council as could say the advice of the treasurer doesn't you know ceo doesn't necessarily have to

[1:01:22] Voice 1: to agree um but we would provide the advice so long as it's within our

[1:01:26] Voice 1: area of um of jurisdiction

[1:01:28] Voice 1: and authority under this uh legislation so this could be an area that you could have a consultant

[1:01:34] Voice 1: review how um we're operating is at that level and maybe there's things that could be done

[1:01:40] Voice 1: differently or could be uh restructured a little bit more to bring that um that level of independence

[1:01:48] Voice 1: independence into the um and the transparency around it into the way we do business assuming

[1:01:54] Voice 1: that's the way it's intended under the legislation i could be reading that completely wrong but

[1:02:00] Voice 1: that's just a thought that you know you could start by saying does our current structure

[1:02:05] Voice 1: allow us to do uh what we would like to do and i think that's what i'm seeing missing is what is

[1:02:14] Voice 1: the need of council so that to me even in the report from great north management i haven't

[1:02:19] Voice 1: seen that so from that perspective it's difficult to understand what is the end result that you're

[1:02:25] Voice 1: looking for out of a position that's a secretary i'll leave it there because obviously it's more

[1:02:33] Voice 1: political than uh factual so i just want to talk about

[1:02:37] Voice 1: that

[1:02:38] Voice 11: thank you director marler um some good

[1:02:41] Voice 11: good conversation happening here um trustee stamford i saw your did you yeah you were next

[1:02:45] Voice 11: in queue thank you um

[1:02:47] Voice 11: do you like to speak now or are you deferring no

[1:02:49] Trustee Stamford: my hand just disappeared

[1:02:51] Trustee Stamford: for some random reason i see

[1:02:53] Trustee Stamford: yeah um yeah i'm i'm a little bit uncomfortable here again because uh

[1:02:59] Trustee Stamford: um we don't have the person here that is that's really focused on this and we did vote on this

[1:03:08] Trustee Stamford: I voted against it and it passed.

[1:03:11] Trustee Stamford: So I feel this is a motion of our committee.

[1:03:15] Trustee Stamford: So as it goes forward, it's how to rationalize it.

[1:03:21] Trustee Stamford: Whenever I look at this, it feels like it's a solution with a problem to solve.

[1:03:27] Trustee Stamford: And we're looking for what exactly is the problem.

[1:03:29] Trustee Stamford: And I don't think we've really answered that yet.

[1:03:33] Trustee Stamford: Great Northern made many recommendations.

[1:03:35] Trustee Stamford: This is one of them, and I'm not quite sure why we focus so much on this before we've really discussed what we are accepting and not accepting from the report as a whole.

[1:03:50] Trustee Stamford: There may be a problem here that we are trying to resolve.

[1:03:55] Trustee Stamford: Let's figure that out first before we state that with confidence that this particular position is what we're looking for.

[1:04:04] Trustee Stamford: And I did hear Trustee Bernardo talk about independence. I'm hearing it more as a level of trust. You've hired staff to give you the appropriate expertise and information to consider that they don't have biases or that those biases will impact trust counsel is a little disingenuous to me.

[1:04:30] Trustee Stamford: that's what we've hired staff to do is to provide us with good counsel and if we don't trust that

[1:04:37] Trustee Stamford: counsel then we have a different problem and that's what we need to look at what we're trying

[1:04:42] Trustee Stamford: to solve here um i i did um lee did send out he did mention an organization that has the structure

[1:04:53] Trustee Stamford: So I looked it up. It was BC Housing. They have a specific position, secretariat and corporate secretariat and legal counsel.

[1:05:04] Trustee Stamford: They are looking at several billion dollars of assets that they manage.

[1:05:10] Trustee Stamford: And I can certainly see how that would fit into that kind of administrative structure.

[1:05:16] Trustee Stamford: How that fits into a publicly elected local governance structure, I'm not sure. So at this point, I'm still not able to support this as a business case, because I don't know what the problem is we're trying to solve.

[1:05:35] Trustee Stamford: And once that is clear, then I'm happy to move forward. And I'd much rather look at other recommendations that Great Northern made, which was really specifying what our communication strategy is, doing feasibility studies on that. That's certainly more along the lines of something I can support. Thank you.

[1:05:59] Voice 11: Thank you, Trustee Stanford. Trustee Patrick, please go ahead.

[1:06:04] Trustee Patrick: um yeah i think some of the issue is here it is true that the act says that trust council appoints

[1:06:10] Trustee Patrick: these positions secretary and and treasurer but it's delegated that responsibility to executive

[1:06:18] Trustee Patrick: committee who makes those appointments so the fact that it's a bit at arm's length from trust

[1:06:25] Trustee Patrick: council isn't a surprise that many of the trust council might not even know what those roles are

[1:06:30] Trustee Patrick: or the fact that they had been appointed or filled.

[1:06:34] Trustee Patrick: And I think the issue is potentially needs to start with a re-examination

[1:06:43] Trustee Patrick: of the understanding of the various roles in the organization,

[1:06:47] Trustee Patrick: all of these appointed roles, what they are, what they could be,

[1:06:51] Trustee Patrick: what are they doing, what could they do, what should they do.

[1:06:54] Trustee Patrick: Those are the conversations that we should be having

[1:06:56] Trustee Patrick: having and also look at you know restoring trust counsel's involvement in making those

[1:07:04] Trustee Patrick: appointments so that they feel that these are people you know that they understand the roles

[1:07:08] Trustee Patrick: they understand the responsibilities that they've been given that they have under the act so i think

[1:07:15] Trustee Patrick: generally i think joe was getting closer to this by asking the questions that he posed of you know

[1:07:21] Trustee Patrick: know what is this um and what could it be and i think to me some of this wraps into the policy

[1:07:30] Trustee Patrick: conversation we're going to have in the very next business case as what is it we need for

[1:07:36] Trustee Patrick: governance of this organization what tools do we need for governance of this organization to be

[1:07:41] Trustee Patrick: clear and part of that is roles and responsibilities and clarity on roles and responsibilities and

[1:07:48] Trustee Patrick: agreement on roles and responsibilities, including the appointments. So I would say I think it's a

[1:07:53] Trustee Patrick: little too soon. Maybe we will need consulting help to get through some of this. Is it as specific

[1:07:59] Trustee Patrick: as just one position?

[1:08:04] Voice 11: Thank you, Trustee Patrick. I understand the idea of in-house legal counsel

[1:08:10] Voice 11: and how that could be very, very effective and how that would continue to prove a real positive

[1:08:17] Voice 11: thing for the organization as time went on to get same person anyhow um CAO Mobs please go ahead

[1:08:25] Voice 11: um

[1:08:28] Voice 6: thanks chair so I I'll look to director Marla to correct me if I'm wrong but I do not believe

[1:08:35] Voice 6: the ability to appoint the treasurer and the secretary has been delegated to executive

[1:08:40] Voice 6: committee um but uh I see he's got his hand up we'll let him clarify when it's his turn to speak

[1:08:46] Voice 6: speak. But I agree with what Trustee Sanford has said. Some of this feels more like a trust issue

[1:08:52] Voice 6: than a structural issue. And there may be opportunities for us to work differently

[1:08:59] Voice 6: within our existing structure. So for example, you know, there's restricted in-camera sessions

[1:09:05] Voice 6: each trust council with the CAO, perhaps with appointed persons in just specific roles.

[1:09:11] Voice 6: Those staff persons would also have the opportunity to speak directly with trust council

[1:09:14] Voice 6: without the CAO present so that their boss essentially is not there.

[1:09:20] Voice 6: So that's a way to work within our existing structure.

[1:09:23] Voice 6: Also, staff are directed through the CAO and the CAO's performance is reviewed by Trust Council.

[1:09:30] Voice 6: And so if there is clear performance metrics and a performance evaluation plan

[1:09:36] Voice 6: and a CAO is held to that standard and held to directing staff

[1:09:42] Voice 6: in accordance with what Trust Council has asked for.

[1:09:45] Voice 6: That's another way to achieve what might be desired

[1:09:48] Voice 6: within our existing structure.

[1:09:50] Voice 6: The independence piece, I agree with Director Marler,

[1:09:53] Voice 6: you know, staff as professionals are hired

[1:09:56] Voice 6: to give our professional advice,

[1:09:59] Voice 6: independent of what others might wish us to say,

[1:10:04] Voice 6: but also understand there could be

[1:10:05] Voice 6: a perceived independence issue there for sure.

[1:10:08] Voice 6: And also, you know, potentially some in fact as well,

[1:10:12] Voice 6: because of course the CAO is establishing wages

[1:10:15] Voice 6: for all the director team in the organization.

[1:10:19] Voice 6: So also I think it was Trustee Stanford who mentioned

[1:10:22] Voice 6: there's a lot of recommendations

[1:10:22] Voice 6: in the governance review report.

[1:10:24] Voice 6: There's 15 in total, I've counted them.

[1:10:27] Voice 6: And it

[1:10:28] Voice 6: might be that this one is important,

[1:10:30] Voice 6: but maybe not for now.

[1:10:31] Voice 6: Maybe there's some more work that needs to be undertaken

[1:10:34] Voice 6: before this can advance as a business case

[1:10:36] Voice 6: and we could look to it in a different fiscal year.

[1:10:39] Voice 6: But that's up to this committee.

[1:10:40] Voice 6: Oh, also one other quick thing. As I understand it, Trust Council appoints a person into the role of treasurer and secretary, not a role. So, you know, my role has always been appointed as treasurer because that sort of makes sense, given the skill set you're hiring for in the Director of Urban Services role.

[1:11:02] Voice 6: but you could decide to make the treasurer david marler for example so there's some flexibility

[1:11:09] Voice 6: there to appoint a person that you wish into a particular role it doesn't have to stay with

[1:11:14] Voice 6: the roles that are currently assigned thank

[1:11:22] Voice 11: you julia i'm director marler please go ahead

[1:11:26] Voice 11: yeah

[1:11:28] Voice 1: thank you uh just go back to a comment that um trustee stamford raised which was the bc

[1:11:34] Voice 1: housing example i have looked at that i just want to just advise you that the structure is similar

[1:11:40] Voice 1: to the allen's trust so when you read the act it very clearly states that the those positions are

[1:11:47] Voice 1: appointed officers similar to trust council but it does say that that those persons actually report

[1:11:54] Voice 1: to the ceo for hiring and firing purposes so ceo can is the only person that can hire and fire

[1:12:01] Voice 1: into those positions so it's very similar to what you have at the islands trust maybe they use it

[1:12:06] Voice 1: differently so that's where my comments came where maybe a consultant could look at how

[1:12:13] Voice 1: the interaction between the officer of secretary relates to council at the islands trust to make

[1:12:22] Voice 1: recommendations for changes the other comment is in relation to the authority for executive

[1:12:31] Voice 1: committee to appoint officers actually it does have the authority because trust

[1:12:36] Voice 1: council bylaw number three which was adopted in 1990 authorizes and delegates

[1:12:42] Voice 1: to the executive committee to appoint the officers of secretary and treasurer

[1:12:47] Voice 1: and other officer positions that is a council bylaws of course trust council

[1:12:52] Voice 1: could rescind that and then trust council would take on the authority as

[1:12:58] Voice 1: as a whole rather than the executive committee.

[1:13:01] Voice 1: Okay, thank you.

[1:13:11] Voice 1: I think Chair Harris might have frozen or I've frozen.

[1:13:17] Voice 8: I think Chair Harris has frozen.

[1:13:21] Voice 8: With the consent of the group,

[1:13:23] Voice 8: I'll proceed since I was next in the lineup here,

[1:13:26] Voice 8: if that's okay.

[1:13:31] Voice 8: It's an interesting discussion we're having

[1:13:33] Voice 8: and I think it is valuable.

[1:13:34] Voice 8: And it may be that we need to fill this out some more.

[1:13:39] Voice 8: and um but you know the point of this business case as i understand it is to fund a project

[1:13:46] Voice 8: that answers the questions that we're raising and it seems to me what we need to do is some

[1:13:50] Voice 8: more work here in terms of framing the questions and to address the important point that was raised

[1:13:55] Voice 8: i think by trustee stanford and director mobs you know i this business about you know you know

[1:14:06] Voice 8: is it a matter of you know what's going on here is this a matter of trust well i think we need to

[1:14:10] Voice 8: be honest with ourselves the governance review and the report that comes out of it i mean

[1:14:14] Voice 8: it's a bill of particulars that is um to a great extent emerges from a lack of trust

[1:14:23] Voice 8: um but the fact that you know the the point of having an independent corporate secretary the

[1:14:29] Voice 8: idea behind that is to have a second voice a second voice that is insulated from the dynamics

[1:14:35] Voice 8: that happens over on the staff side and there's no need to go into the history and belabor all that

[1:14:40] Voice 8: but a question we have to ask ourselves is like is it valuable is it useful for us to have the

[1:14:46] Voice 8: independent advice when we go to legal counsel that's what we're getting we're getting legal

[1:14:50] Voice 8: advice that staff and trustees may or may not agree with or may or may not like but it is

[1:14:56] Voice 8: independent and it's expert advice about what the law says and what the law compels us to do

[1:15:02] Voice 8: and we have to live with it and uh in terms of how we do our day-to-day corporate activities we don't

[1:15:09] Voice 8: get that at the secretary level uh it's just it's just not independent it is subject to all

[1:15:16] Voice 8: the tensions and dynamics and needs of staff and all those you know i'm not going to call them

[1:15:22] Voice 8: conflict of interest it's just like just that muddle of different interests that people have

[1:15:26] Voice 8: you know as a not personal interest but as an organization and uh there is a question to be

[1:15:34] Voice 8: be asked here about whether or not we do need i mean i think director mobs makes a good point if

[1:15:41] Voice 8: we need a first of all i think you know we have to frame this in a way so we can raise it at some

[1:15:47] Voice 8: point to trust council to ask the question do we need do you think we need independent advice on

[1:15:52] Voice 8: this order if so here's how it would work uh but director mobs raises a good point which is there

[1:16:00] Voice 8: There may be other ways of getting to the same place, but that doesn't necessarily, that's where the independent advice comes in.

[1:16:09] Voice 8: You know, I can conceive of a situation where the independent advisor, somebody with some expertise here, tells us, yeah, well, I know where you're trying to get to.

[1:16:16] Voice 8: You don't need to have this elaborate separate corporate secretary.

[1:16:18] Voice 8: You could do it this way or you could do it that way.

[1:16:21] Voice 8: uh for me um uh the starting point of this is trying to understand how we're dealing

[1:16:28] Voice 8: with these separate i mean these are these are unique positions the secretary the corporate

[1:16:35] Voice 8: corporate secretary and the treasurer they're identified in the act and because they're

[1:16:41] Voice 8: identified in the act as a responsibility for the trust council uh to take care of

[1:16:47] Voice 8: uh i could be wrong about this but i'm a little uneasy well i'm a lot uneasy about the fact that

[1:16:53] Voice 8: we've got some policy that goes back 34 years to 1990 that hands off the responsibility of making

[1:17:01] Voice 8: those appointments to executive committee it's not clear to me that that's a jurisdiction that

[1:17:06] Voice 8: we can do so that's a question i've got and perhaps director marla can answer it i mean

[1:17:11] Voice 8: is that something that trust council can in fact lawfully delegate to executive committee

[1:17:17] Voice 8: committee i don't know if it is uh and uh and perhaps we should be answering that question

[1:17:27] Voice 8: uh um depending on if the answer to that is there's some doubt or if the answer is as blatant

[1:17:34] Voice 8: as no we're kind of been doing it wrong well that's something that should let's remember we're

[1:17:38] Voice 8: not deciding on whether to create this position or not we're talking about exploring it and it

[1:17:45] Voice 8: it seems to me if there is some doubt or some ambiguity about the appointment process that's

[1:17:50] Voice 8: currently in place, that's something that needs to be examined. And that would be one of the

[1:17:55] Voice 8: questions that we would be saying in the business case that we need to have answered. And that's

[1:18:02] Voice 8: not the complete justification for proceeding with this, but it's partially, it's part of the

[1:18:07] Voice 8: justification. But I mean, it's pretty clear from what people are saying here that as currently

[1:18:14] Voice 8: drafted there's just a lot of uncertainty here about what this is you know exactly what are we

[1:18:19] Voice 8: asking for and yeah it sounds like this isn't ready for prime time but the question is do we

[1:18:23] Voice 8: develop it here or do we table it and and develop it at a later point but i certainly whatever we

[1:18:29] Voice 8: do with this i would like us to answer this question one way or the other about what are

[1:18:33] Voice 8: we actually doing here are we actually are we sure we're on side with the statute in the way that we

[1:18:39] Voice 8: are taking care of these appointments of corporate secretary and treasurer because without knowing

[1:18:44] Voice 8: knowing that much about it i would be assuming and that's all it is that if it's in the statute

[1:18:50] Voice 8: that's that's something that trust council ought to be doing on its own and it implies that that

[1:18:54] Voice 8: ought to be there ought to be um that advice that comes from a staff person when they are the

[1:19:01] Voice 8: corporate secretary or they are the treasurer ought to be articulated to trust council very

[1:19:07] Voice 8: clearly by that person saying today i'm setting aside my responsibility as directors director of

[1:19:13] Voice 8: of A or B, I'm now coming here as your corporate secretary or as your treasurer and independently

[1:19:19] Voice 8: giving you this advice. We don't have that, but it seems to me that even if we end up changing

[1:19:26] Voice 8: nothing, something like that has to happen. Sorry, I've been rambling on at length. Apologies for

[1:19:31] Voice 8: that. But if Director Marlowe could answer that question, are we entirely sure about this

[1:19:35] Voice 8: delegation business, about how we're doing it, whether it's entirely on side the statute? Thank

[1:19:40] Voice 8: you if

[1:19:42] Voice 1: i may through the chair i can just answer that quickly yes

[1:19:45] Voice 11: please yeah

[1:19:47] Voice 1: so yes uh islands

[1:19:49] Voice 1: trust act clearly states that um that section of the act which is section 17 uh where is it uh 17

[1:19:57] Voice 1: one of the island's trust act uh under section uh where is it anyway i got this section 10

[1:20:05] Voice 1: 10 delegation of powers clearly states that trust council can delegate those powers to

[1:20:12] Voice 1: the executive committee. Thank

[1:20:21] Voice 9: you. If I may just follow up. Yeah. Director Marler, that's

[1:20:26] Voice 9: specifically enumerated, is it?

[1:20:30] Voice 1: Yeah. It's 10 refers to section 8.1 D to F. If you go

[1:20:35] Voice 1: back to 8.1 D to F, F is hang on a second. D is appoint officers and other employees

[1:20:43] Voice 1: in accordance with section 17 and auditors in accordance with sections 18 and 45 so it

[1:20:49] Voice 1: specifies the sections and

[1:20:53] Voice 8: we're sure in that that reference to employees encompasses

[1:20:58] Voice 8: this being very fussy in particular but we're sure there's there's no distinction in the

[1:21:04] Voice 8: legislation when it refers to employees we're sure that it's actually referring to corporate

[1:21:08] Voice 8: Secretary and Treasurer as well?

[1:21:11] Voice 1: Yeah, because Section 17 just says Trust Council must appoint

[1:21:15] Voice 1: a person to the Office of Secretary, a person to the Office of Treasurer, persons to any other

[1:21:20] Voice 1: offices that it has by bylaw designated as Officer Positions, and then other employees that it

[1:21:26] Voice 1: considers necessary to carry out the operations of Trust Council, Executive Committee, Local Trust

[1:21:30] Voice 1: Committees, and the Alice Trust Conservancy.

[1:21:33] Voice 8: But am I correct? Sorry to take up this time,

[1:21:36] Voice 8: But am I correct in understanding, though, that under our current policy, executive committee doesn't actually appoint a person as required, but has this mechanism where it says the person who occupies this or the office, the office of this or that also occupies the position of corporate secretary or treasurer.

[1:22:03] Voice 8: and that it actually there's no decisions actually being made here by through the go ahead yeah i can

[1:22:10] Voice 1: answer that for you yeah so through the chair the um uh when a the position becomes vacant so say if

[1:22:18] Voice 1: i quit or julia quit and the position was replaced by another person we would then go to the executive

[1:22:25] Voice 1: committee with rfd there to appoint the person by name uh to that position of officers so it doesn't

[1:22:33] Voice 1: run with the position but it's assumed that they would want the same position to be doing that work

[1:22:40] Voice 1: but as the CEO indicated earlier for whatever reason trust council could decide that there's

[1:22:47] Voice 1: somebody else in the organization that's better suited to be the secretary or to be the treasurer

[1:22:53] Voice 1: so executive committee on behalf of council could really in theory pick anybody at the

[1:23:00] Voice 1: Allen's trust that it feels is appropriate.

[1:23:03] Voice 8: Well, I'm sorry to take up this time, but just one last question,

[1:23:05] Voice 8: just to be, I'm not, I'm not clear about what you're saying here, David,

[1:23:08] Voice 8: are you saying that you and Julia were appointed by name?

[1:23:12] Voice 1: Yes, I was appointed by name and Julia would have been appointed by name.

[1:23:16] Voice 1: I should have been.

[1:23:18] Voice 8: All right. Thank you.

[1:23:24] Voice 11: Trustee Peterson, you're next on the speaker's list. Please go ahead.

[1:23:28] Voice 10: I'm going to defer to trustee Luckham because I think he had his hand up

[1:23:32] Voice 10: before I did.

[1:23:34] Voice 11: I thought his hand has just been up in perpetuity and hadn't taken it down from the last time,

[1:23:38] Voice 11: but I forgot to mention that. But trust me, you're welcome. Please, if your hand is up waiting to

[1:23:41] Voice 11: speak, please go ahead.

[1:23:43] Trustee Luckham: Yeah, no, I did lower my hand earlier. And if I do leave it up accidentally,

[1:23:48] Trustee Luckham: please let me know. Yeah, my apologies. That's all right. You know, I think

[1:23:55] Trustee Luckham: I think there's too much ambiguity here and too many questions.

[1:24:03] Trustee Luckham: And I did mention earlier, we've just written to the province to ask them to help us out

[1:24:07] Trustee Luckham: with governance.

[1:24:08] Trustee Luckham: The fact that these appointments are made in the act and in the legislation, I think

[1:24:19] Trustee Luckham: that what would be interesting would be to clarify what is the expectation of the province

[1:24:24] Trustee Luckham: with these roles being appointed and designated in the way

[1:24:28] Trustee Luckham: and in the fashion that they are.

[1:24:32] Trustee Luckham: And I don't know that we need, at this juncture,

[1:24:35] Trustee Luckham: we necessarily need to hire a consultant to do that.

[1:24:38] Trustee Luckham: We could just simply, outside of even the letter to the province,

[1:24:41] Trustee Luckham: we could just simply ask for clarification on those roles

[1:24:44] Trustee Luckham: as described in the Act and the expectations of the province

[1:24:48] Trustee Luckham: with respect to those roles.

[1:24:51] Trustee Luckham: We definitely need more clarity.

[1:24:53] Trustee Luckham: This has been a great conversation, by the way.

[1:24:55] Trustee Luckham: It's been enlightening, and I can definitely see from the conversation there's room for improvement and room for understanding.

[1:25:06] Trustee Luckham: I have appointed a number of people to those positions over the years by name.

[1:25:13] Trustee Luckham: It just happens, and maybe that's part of the problem.

[1:25:18] Trustee Luckham: That's all.

[1:25:18] Trustee Luckham: I'll take my hand down.

[1:25:21] Voice 11: Thank you, Chair Locke.

[1:25:23] Voice 11: Trustee Peterson, please go ahead.

[1:25:27] Voice 10: Thank you.

[1:25:28] Voice 10: I agree.

[1:25:28] Voice 10: it has been a good um discussion and i think this is a discussion we need to have at trust council

[1:25:38] Voice 10: i'm a little um i'm a little leery of advancing this business case to financial planning committee

[1:25:45] Voice 10: at this point because of the level of ambiguity um it's possible that that financial planning

[1:25:54] Voice 10: committee will say hey great let's let's push this off to trust council for the decision

[1:26:01] Voice 10: decision but if that is the case then when this business case as it's presently presented get to

[1:26:09] Voice 10: trust counsel how is this explained in a way that that comes to trust counsel uh and trust

[1:26:19] Voice 10: trustees around the table can go okay i see what we're talking about here i just don't feel like

[1:26:24] Voice 10: we're there um notwithstanding the potential value of of the investigation and the role

[1:26:35] Voice 10: So I've been sitting on financial planning committee for the last two years and I was in my role as a vice chair of trust programs committee before that.

[1:26:53] Voice 10: Every year we get to really some hammer and tongs with trying to make sure that we're reducing the budget as much as feasible.

[1:27:06] Voice 10: And honestly, if this were sitting before me at Financial Planning Committee, I'd have to ask the question, what is it you're asking for and what's the need?

[1:27:16] Voice 10: And I just don't see this as spelled out in the business case.

[1:27:21] Voice 10: That said, I don't have a personal position against doing this, but I just feel like the business case isn't making the case.

[1:27:30] Voice 10: If I hadn't been in these discussions in this committee, I don't see anything in the business case that would, you know, lead me to make any sense of what's going on here.

[1:27:43] Voice 10: So that's my primary concern.

[1:27:47] Voice 10: Chair Lucka mentioned the review to the province.

[1:27:49] Voice 10: Yes, we don't know what the uptake would that be.

[1:27:52] Voice 10: but on our governance committee follow-up action list something that we still haven't managed to

[1:27:59] Voice 10: to action yet is the discussion about the governance report and the 15 recommendations

[1:28:07] Voice 10: and out of trust council hasn't had a meaningful discussion about the report and the recommendations

[1:28:15] Voice 10: and i'd really like to see that happen and i'd like to see trust council have that discussion

[1:28:20] Voice 10: discussion before we advance i just don't see advancing this business case i'll leave it there

[1:28:28] Voice 10: thank you thank

[1:28:29] Voice 11: you um i you know i understand some of these arguments um you know but when i

[1:28:35] Voice 11: think about you know the idea that we've got this letter off to the province so that's you know a

[1:28:43] Voice 11: reason to uh perhaps hold off on things well you know just in my simple mind i think well

[1:28:50] Voice 11: that's maybe a reason to hold off on doing anything but um i do understand maybe just

[1:28:55] Voice 11: because i understand and i've heard you know the conversations that we have had on this

[1:29:00] Voice 11: business case um i'm you know i feel very comfortable moving this ahead i don't see

[1:29:05] Voice 11: this as a make or break um thing for financial planning and um and i can only see positive

[1:29:12] Voice 11: coming from it i don't see how there's going to be a negative please trust you bernardo you're

[1:29:16] Voice 11: next on the speaker's list please go ahead uh

[1:29:21] Voice 8: thank you um as um i think trustee peterson has

[1:29:26] Voice 8: made a really important point actually um as you can tell from my remarks earlier uh i'm kind of a

[1:29:32] Voice 8: fan of the idea of having independent second voices and you know as i've said before i like

[1:29:39] Voice 8: the idea of having a general counsel because i actually think there's potential economic

[1:29:43] Voice 8: efficiencies there, among other things, as well as the tremendous utility for having

[1:29:51] Voice 8: somebody on call within the office.

[1:29:53] Voice 8: But that's something that has to be developed.

[1:30:00] Voice 8: What's been happening in the discussion today, we're talking about all these great ideas, but they're actually, the issue before us is this business case.

[1:30:07] Voice 8: And although the discussion has been useful, we haven't reached a consensus amongst ourselves about getting for compelling understanding about the utility of moving forward with this as a business case.

[1:30:20] Voice 8: case uh so you know as much as i like the idea of this stuff and i'm uh i actually like trustee

[1:30:29] Voice 8: harris you know because i'm biased in favor of this i'd be inclined to vote for it regardless

[1:30:36] Voice 8: because i just want to push it ahead but i have to be honest with you as well as chairs as a chair

[1:30:42] Voice 8: of the fpc i've been pretty critical of business cases that just don't give trustees enough

[1:30:48] Voice 8: information to make a reasonable judgment. And what I'm hearing from the rest of us,

[1:30:55] Voice 8: from our colleagues here on the committee, and also, frankly, from staff is, yeah, this,

[1:31:02] Voice 8: you know, a lot of ambiguity, we're not clear about, like, what are we going to be? What do

[1:31:06] Voice 8: we really want the consultant to do? What is the problem we're trying to solve? And those questions

[1:31:13] Voice 8: will get repeated at FPC. And if I'm going to be honest about it, I mean, if it was it,

[1:31:17] Voice 8: If it was something that I didn't want to put my thumb on the scale on, I'd be critical of this as well.

[1:31:23] Voice 8: So I think in fairness, it does look like this thing is just not ready for prime time because it doesn't put forward an argument that people like other trustees who aren't part of this whole governance thing can get their hands around to try to understand what the issues are.

[1:31:42] Voice 8: I've got a pretty clear understanding of it in my head about the utility of this

[1:31:47] Voice 8: but it's not in the business case and that's what's before us at the moment

[1:31:51] Voice 8: and we are suffering for the fact that we don't have the strongest advocate for this who might

[1:31:57] Voice 8: be in a position to provide more information and help us amend the business case and make it clear

[1:32:02] Voice 8: he's not here today so I think we're either in the position of tabling this thing till next term

[1:32:12] Voice 8: which i don't want to do or perhaps um using this business case as some kind of place or you know

[1:32:21] Voice 8: approving it as some sort of placeholder but pending further work being done on it

[1:32:26] Voice 8: with some input from from the trustees on this on this committee i'm not quite sure whether that

[1:32:31] Voice 8: i'm not quite sure whether the latter is feasible and perhaps director mobs can advise us on that

[1:32:35] Voice 8: thank you thank

[1:32:38] Voice 11: you for that trustee bernardo something along those lines seems to make

[1:32:41] Voice 11: a lot of sense. Chair Lockham, you referred to something to that nature earlier, one of your

[1:32:47] Voice 11: first remarks on this business case, sort of placeholder for this, if that's possible. I like

[1:32:55] Voice 11: that idea. I clearly am not in favor of pushing this off until next fiscal. But with that, CAO

[1:33:01] Voice 11: Mobs, please go ahead.

[1:33:04] Voice 6: Thanks, Chair. I would not recommend or be in favor of a placeholder for this

[1:33:09] Voice 6: work for the fact that, as stated, Trust Council has not reviewed this recommendation specifically

[1:33:15] Voice 6: to say it is in support of investigating it. Usually when we have placeholders in the budget

[1:33:22] Voice 6: for business cases that are still being fleshed out or still being worked on, it's because the

[1:33:27] Voice 6: work itself has at least been approved by Trust Council already, usually as part of an overall

[1:33:33] Voice 6: strategy, fresh water strategy, for example, or the strategic plan, for example. In this instance,

[1:33:39] Voice 6: Trust Council has not had that distinct conversation around the recommendations in

[1:33:43] Voice 6: the governance review. And so I wouldn't want to include a placeholder in our budget until

[1:33:49] Voice 6: that time. So that would be my recommendation is not to go that route, but instead to wait to

[1:33:55] Voice 6: flesh out this business case a bit more. I tend to agree with those that are saying we are unable

[1:34:01] Voice 6: able to identify what this problem is. We're hearing that, you know, well, we value independence

[1:34:05] Voice 6: in principle. Okay, well, what problems are we seeing arising from that actual or perceived

[1:34:12] Voice 6: lack of independence, perhaps? So, yes, fully fleshing out this business case will be tough

[1:34:19] Voice 6: until we can perhaps get more trustee input. But as far as placeholder, I wouldn't be in favor,

[1:34:25] Voice 6: and i say that as your treasurer thank you and

[1:34:32] Voice 11: i i get this is impossible to put can we not

[1:34:36] Voice 11: this off until the next day or months uh

[1:34:45] Voice 6: you broke up there chair harris but i think you

[1:34:47] Voice 6: were asking could we put this off until the next governance committee meeting is that what you're

[1:34:51] Voice 6: asking

[1:34:52] Voice 11: yes that's correct uh

[1:34:55] Voice 6: yes certainly that would be doable the first draft of the budget

[1:35:00] Voice 6: will be going to trust council in december i don't believe governance committee meets until january

[1:35:06] Voice 6: so governance committee could have a look at this um in january and then it would be advancing only

[1:35:12] Voice 6: with the second version of the budget uh in march well

[1:35:17] Voice 11: in light of all the work that's gone on thus

[1:35:19] Voice 11: far and input from trustees it seems to me that would be the the better thing to do um i'd love

[1:35:26] Voice 11: to hear what kind of appetite the rest of the committee has trustee peterson you have your hand

[1:35:30] Voice 11: up yeah

[1:35:33] Voice 10: thank you chair um that was going to be my recommendation uh later in the agenda we have um

[1:35:39] Voice 10: uh uh proposed meeting dates um for next year and um january 29th is identified as

[1:35:48] Voice 10: as the proposed next date for this uh committee to meet so i would propose that we um that we

[1:35:57] Voice 10: reconsider this at that meeting um hopefully uh trustee middleton um is available for that

[1:36:05] Voice 10: meeting and uh of course he's not here today to vote on the on on the meeting dates so we don't

[1:36:11] Voice 10: know for sure um and uh you know in in in anticipation of this coming back um um certainly

[1:36:22] Voice 10: i don't mind reaching out to trustee middleton and i'd encourage anyone else who has those

[1:36:27] Voice 10: those questions or would like to have a little bit more explanatory sort of

[1:36:36] Voice 10: look at what needs to be in the business case. And, and because as I said before,

[1:36:40] Voice 10: we need to as governance committee advancing this to FPC and then to trust

[1:36:48] Voice 10: council, ultimately we need to have something that,

[1:36:51] Voice 10: that trustees can understand.

[1:36:53] Voice 10: So I'm in favor of recon just setting this aside and having it on our next

[1:36:57] Voice 10: agenda.

[1:37:00] Voice 11: Thank you for that, Trustee Peterson. Trustee Bernardo, please go ahead.

[1:37:05] Voice 8: Yeah, we've been pounding away on this for a while. We have other things to do,

[1:37:09] Voice 8: and I think we've kind of run out the string on this. It's pretty clear the consensus is that

[1:37:14] Voice 8: this isn't ready for prime time yet, but it does need work, and we seem to be drifting in the

[1:37:20] Voice 8: direction of kicking this over to the next regularly scheduled governance committee meeting.

[1:37:26] Voice 8: my only thought is it's not going to be much you know we've heard from staff the document isn't

[1:37:32] Voice 8: going to be much different unless it gets some input um and some elaboration on what the point

[1:37:37] Voice 8: of this is and um i'm wondering if staff would be comfortable with a you know a resolution the

[1:37:45] Voice 8: tables is the next scheduled meeting and ask staff to work with trustee middleton to further

[1:37:51] Voice 8: elaborate the rationale for it um is that okay with the staff that we would identify trustee

[1:37:58] Voice 8: middleton as somebody to go to to work with to fill out this business case um cao moms if i could

[1:38:04] Voice 8: ask through the chair absolutely

[1:38:10] Voice 6: i mean we have reached out to trustee middleton um and he has

[1:38:13] Voice 6: responded and said he would um be happy to work with us but we have not received any information

[1:38:17] Voice 6: um to date although actually i think there was a follow-up email um maybe just yesterday um that

[1:38:24] Voice 6: said he thought maybe the unbiased staff approach would be better but certainly um no issues working

[1:38:31] Voice 6: with trustee middleton um it would be obviously whatever information comes out of that conversation

[1:38:39] Voice 6: or whatever views are shared in that conversation would then still have to travel to trust council

[1:38:43] Voice 6: to make sure that the problem identified is actually a shared one of

[1:38:46] Voice 8: course um i see trustee

[1:38:48] Voice 8: sanford has her hand up but um you know i subject to what other people say i'd be prepared to make

[1:38:54] Voice 8: that motion to table it and kick it over to staff and trustee middleton and to to fill this out to

[1:38:59] Voice 8: what extent they can but um i i won't make that motion until people have run you know their

[1:39:06] Voice 8: comments yes

[1:39:08] Voice 11: let's hear let's hear from the speaker's list and um i like that idea um

[1:39:11] Voice 11: trustee stanford please go ahead um

[1:39:14] Trustee Stamford: again i am feeling uncomfortable about where i sit on this

[1:39:19] Trustee Stamford: i think people understand my my particular views on it and and without trying to prejudice it

[1:39:25] Trustee Stamford: We are spending a lot of staff time as well as our own time

[1:39:30] Trustee Stamford: pretzeling a problem into a solution.

[1:39:34] Trustee Stamford: And I would much rather see this be stayed, not go any further,

[1:39:40] Trustee Stamford: and really be able to have the opportunity to hash out

[1:39:43] Trustee Stamford: what is the problem and what is the potential solutions

[1:39:46] Trustee Stamford: and then come forward with an appropriate business case.

[1:39:50] Trustee Stamford: We're giving ourselves a lot of leeway

[1:39:56] Trustee Stamford: um trying to make this work and i i would rather go back to the drawing board and really look at

[1:40:05] Trustee Stamford: what the problem is and look at the the report as a whole and and understand how we fit into all this

[1:40:12] Trustee Stamford: it's a much bigger conversation than trying to get a business case through

[1:40:16] Trustee Stamford: um and and yet we keep trying to winkle it through and i'm not sure we would give

[1:40:21] Trustee Stamford: have another uh group if it was on the finance committee uh any other business case like this

[1:40:28] Trustee Stamford: they're just it would not get the attention that we're giving it to it now um it's important

[1:40:33] Trustee Stamford: issues but let's find out what those important issues are and then solve them rather than trying

[1:40:39] Trustee Stamford: to make this fit anyway that's

[1:40:42] Voice 11: my thought thank you thank you trancy stemford i think the idea

[1:40:46] Voice 11: idea is that we would have robust conversation and it would be made clear. That's the idea of

[1:40:51] Voice 11: waiting until the next meeting and having Trustee Middleton weigh in between now and then. And of

[1:40:56] Voice 11: course, we'd have more conversation in the future. Chair Luffin, please go ahead.

[1:41:03] Trustee Luckham: Thank you, Chair. Yeah. What Trustee Stamford's saying there about the problem versus the

[1:41:12] Trustee Luckham: solution or a solution versus a problem, it does beg the question, where has this been,

[1:41:19] Trustee Luckham: the circumstance of this situation, outside of a necessity of trust and the need to know, I guess,

[1:41:28] Trustee Luckham: where has this been a problem in our day-to-day governance? I don't think that this has

[1:41:32] Trustee Luckham: has been raised as a problem in terms of our process of governance.

[1:41:39] Trustee Luckham: But that said, I'll just move on from there and just come back to,

[1:41:44] Trustee Luckham: and I'm sorry if I'm reiterating the same thing over again.

[1:41:49] Trustee Luckham: I'd like to ask through the chair staff,

[1:41:54] Trustee Luckham: can we clarify what the intention of the province is with respect to the

[1:42:00] Trustee Luckham: inclusion of this mechanism in the legislation. I would like to know what problem is it that the

[1:42:11] Trustee Luckham: intentions are intended to solve or what problems is it intended to avoid in the governance of the

[1:42:22] Trustee Luckham: Islands Trust and or any other local government? It's great that the BC Housing has a mechanism

[1:42:28] Trustee Luckham: in there, clearly a different kind of an animal, certainly unique like the Hellenist Trust.

[1:42:33] Trustee Luckham: But what other local governments are there that have this distinction or this issue

[1:42:40] Trustee Luckham: or have dealt with this in a different way? Most of them all have secretaries and treasurers.

[1:42:46] Trustee Luckham: We're not a corporation, which is clearly different. But just through the chair,

[1:42:52] Trustee Luckham: is there potential to answer the question, is there some way of seeking advice from the province

[1:42:56] Trustee Luckham: with respect to this without actually writing a letter you know like who can we talk to about this

[1:43:03] Voice 11: um director merler do you have anything to add to chair welcome's question

[1:43:07] Voice 1: yeah probably answer

[1:43:10] Voice 1: that there i mean we could certainly you know talk to staff at the province who have a bit more

[1:43:15] Voice 1: knowledge about how legislation works uh one thing i will say though is that trust committees and

[1:43:21] Voice 1: trust council are corporations under the um under the act just as local governments are corporations

[1:43:28] Voice 1: And so there's a requirement, for example, I think it's mostly to do with a legal requirement around receipt of information.

[1:43:36] Voice 1: So, you know, Trust Council would have to receive something legally.

[1:43:41] Voice 1: And obviously, you know, putting it on Trust Council's agenda and all of you receiving it is very cumbersome.

[1:43:48] Voice 1: So you're required to appoint a secretary and appoint a treasurer for those purposes to handle those things.

[1:43:55] Voice 1: So if I receive something, I'm receiving it on behalf of Trust Council.

[1:43:59] Voice 1: So I think at the very basic level, that's the intent of the appointments of the officers and treasurers.

[1:44:04] Voice 1: But there could be other ones that I'm not aware of.

[1:44:07] Voice 1: And maybe Interim CO might have some further comments on that.

[1:44:13] Voice 11: I was hoping that we'd just have a unanimous agreement to move this on to the next meeting.

[1:44:19] Voice 11: Trustee Bernardo was talking about putting forward a motion.

[1:44:21] Voice 11: Are you still prepared to do a motion, Trustee Bernardo?

[1:44:25] Voice 11: Yes,

[1:44:26] Voice 8: that's what I was about. That's why I put my hand up because with respect, colleagues, I think we're going in circles here. And we need to break the logic to move on to the next item. So I move that item 7.2.2 in the agenda be tabled to the next regularly scheduled meeting of the Governance Committee, and that staff be requested to consult with Trustee Middleton to further develop the business case.

[1:44:56] Voice 11: is there anybody seconding the motion i can't see the whole screen so um i'll second the motion if

[1:45:07] Voice 11: nobody else has um i don't know if we need any discussion on this because um you know i think

[1:45:20] Voice 11: we've kind of ran the course of discussion here but if somebody really wants to speak to this um

[1:45:25] Voice 11: i don't see any hands other than chair luckens which i'm assuming is just up

[1:45:34] Voice 11: absolutely

[1:45:35] Trustee Luckham: right thank

[1:45:37] Voice 11: you uh okay um do we need to see this on the screen i'd

[1:45:47] Voice 10: like it if we could

[1:45:47] Voice 10: see it please are

[1:46:06] Voice 11: you content with um that language trustee bernardo yes

[1:46:12] Voice 8: i am thank you

[1:46:14] Voice 11: hey um let's put it up to a vote all in favor um moving this up your hand looks like

[1:46:28] Voice 11: uh three in favor for all those opposed please give me a chance to lower my hand

[1:46:40] Voice 11: i see two opposed that's like two opposed correct motion carries thank you very much

[1:46:47] Voice 11: for all that discussion um let's move on we have the um policy review business case

[1:47:02] Voice 11: 7.2.3 next on the agenda um who's speaking to this um staff please go ahead yeah

[1:47:10] Voice 1: i could unless

[1:47:11] Voice 1: unless COO would like to open it.

[1:47:13] Voice 1: All you, David.

[1:47:17] Voice 1: Okay, thank you.

[1:47:18] Voice 1: Yeah, so this, again, was a request

[1:47:21] Voice 1: to the Governance Committee for a business case

[1:47:24] Voice 1: to deal with the policies.

[1:47:26] Voice 1: So if you go on to page 85 of the business case,

[1:47:30] Voice 1: I just laid out the number of policies

[1:47:33] Voice 1: that we have by the sections.

[1:47:35] Voice 1: There's a total of about 91 policies.

[1:47:38] Voice 1: Also note that we had some information

[1:47:42] Voice 1: from MIABC and they do recommend that local governments keep the policies up to date and

[1:47:51] Voice 1: have a system in place to systematically review and update the policies and we may have policies

[1:47:58] Voice 1: that are non-existent that we probably should have so we need to take a look at those so on

[1:48:05] Voice 1: the next section under the deliverables i've just kind of drafted up this is just my staff

[1:48:11] Voice 1: interpretation of what you're looking to do and i could be completely wrong so what i'm thinking

[1:48:18] Voice 1: that you would like to do is establish essentially a methodology and a strategy that sets out the

[1:48:26] Voice 1: criteria for prioritization of the policies to be reviewed because there's so many you're not

[1:48:31] Voice 1: going to be able to do them all all at once and also criteria for any new policies and then

[1:48:38] Voice 1: establishing schedule for review and update which could just be once a term for review and update is

[1:48:43] Voice 1: necessary as an example so about once every four years prioritized policies for review and update

[1:48:50] Voice 1: once that's been done given there's 91 you may decide that you can do five or ten before the

[1:48:58] Voice 1: the end of term or there's a need to do that number i'm not sure and then undertake those

[1:49:04] Voice 1: actual uh review those policies so actually do the work to review them and then recommend updates

[1:49:11] Voice 1: to trust council um and then the final bullet there is just identifying gaps where we should

[1:49:17] Voice 1: have some policies um but they're not in place and i think staff could help the committee

[1:49:22] Voice 1: with uh with that and that's mostly around um uh risk and uh insurance requirements where

[1:49:30] Voice 1: a policy will actually help us rather than hinder us uh so i did um this business case

[1:49:39] Voice 1: does need a little bit more work uh i did two options here it should be a third one which is

[1:49:44] Voice 1: hiring of a consultant as an option which i didn't get a chance to put in here but generally

[1:49:51] Voice 1: the staff thinking was that we could do this in-house. The money would just be mostly to

[1:49:57] Voice 1: cover legal advice because some of these policies are going to require some review. But for

[1:50:05] Voice 1: this to be successful, the governance committee would have to create this as a priority to

[1:50:11] Voice 1: carve out the time for staff to do this as an in-house project. The reason I'm feeling

[1:50:17] Voice 1: in-house and I'll again I'll update the business case to provide this information before it goes

[1:50:22] Voice 1: to FPC the reason I feel it should be done in-house is because the policies are very specific

[1:50:29] Voice 1: to the nuances of the way the Allen's Trust works and we have unique legislation so I think staff

[1:50:37] Voice 1: might be in a better position to help you with reviewing what's necessary and what's not necessary

[1:50:43] Voice 1: bringing a consultant would probably require staff to spend quite a bit of time with the consultant to bring them up to speed on the way the Islands Trust works.

[1:50:55] Voice 1: So unlike the last one, this one I think will benefit from the staff's understanding of the Islands Trust.

[1:51:04] Voice 1: So that's the rationale for why we're recommending it be done in-house and with staff.

[1:51:09] Voice 1: staff. If staffing is an issue, like if you feel that you would like a lot more time is

[1:51:19] Voice 1: required than we have, then you could consider increasing the business case dollars to include

[1:51:27] Voice 1: administrative staff support, which would act as backfill. So it would provide some

[1:51:33] Voice 1: relief we could bring in somebody at the administrative level to help out with some administrative

[1:51:38] Voice 1: administrative work and then get our current administrative staff that have experience

[1:51:44] Voice 1: with these policies to do some of the work to help with the updating and drafting of

[1:51:53] Voice 1: the strategy to update the policies.

[1:51:57] Voice 1: So yes, this is before you.

[1:52:00] Voice 1: So like the last one, I'd like to make sure that the governance committee feels that this

[1:52:06] Voice 1: This is what you want to do.

[1:52:07] Voice 1: And if I've missed the mark completely, that's totally fine.

[1:52:10] Voice 1: You can let me know and I'll completely rewrite the business case.

[1:52:13] Voice 1: So over to you.

[1:52:15] Voice 1: Thank you.

[1:52:17] Voice 11: Thank you, Director Marler.

[1:52:20] Voice 11: Trustee Bernardo, start us off.

[1:52:22] Voice 8: Thank you very much.

[1:52:23] Voice 8: I am strongly in favor of this.

[1:52:28] Voice 8: And our policies are, for the most part, very old, which doesn't necessarily mean that they're out of date, but it's strongly suggestive that they might well be.

[1:52:38] Voice 8: we already know from previous comments we've had from staff that there is a

[1:52:43] Voice 8: collection of policies that are time has passed them by and they're basically useless they're

[1:52:48] Voice 8: just dead letters they're just sitting in there gathering dust nobody pays attention

[1:52:51] Voice 8: they don't apply but they're still like official policies those things need to be purged there's

[1:52:56] Voice 8: too many policies anybody from the outside and frankly even trustees from the inside you're

[1:53:01] Voice 8: trying to understand how the organization works it's just this clutter of policies are all over

[1:53:06] Voice 8: the place and um reviewing these policies by one by one uh is the process that's most likely to

[1:53:16] Voice 8: result uh so in solutions to our governance issues to the extent that they are the the we

[1:53:24] Voice 8: these are problems that are within our power to address a lot of the province went because there

[1:53:29] Voice 8: are some things we that are outside of our power to deal with we don't have to rehash that but

[1:53:35] Voice 8: But there are internal things that we can, you know, how we conduct our own business internally, you know, the relationship with the executive committee and trust council, who does what, when, that kind of thing.

[1:53:47] Voice 8: And I also agree with what Director Marler is talking about, that really the emphasis here in terms of who does the work ought to be the staff.

[1:53:55] Voice 8: The reality is this, Director Marler and the rest of the staff are going to be better positioned to do this work than any outside consultant, because the staff has the working knowledge.

[1:54:05] Voice 8: of how these policies work.

[1:54:09] Voice 8: It's aware by dint of experience

[1:54:10] Voice 8: which ones are frankly relevant

[1:54:12] Voice 8: and which are useless

[1:54:13] Voice 8: and can be just ditched without much work.

[1:54:16] Voice 8: They also have an intimate working knowledge

[1:54:19] Voice 8: of which policies we need to have

[1:54:23] Voice 8: working well and aren't.

[1:54:25] Voice 8: They work with these policies day in and day out.

[1:54:29] Voice 8: They're positioned to tell us what,

[1:54:33] Voice 8: to provide us with really good advice

[1:54:34] Voice 8: about what's workable what isn't what needs to be fixed and so i would favor taking that approach

[1:54:43] Voice 8: we don't need i don't think we ought to be looking into the idea of a consultant at this point but

[1:54:47] Voice 8: um one of the remarks director martyr made was you know if we think it's a good idea that you

[1:54:54] Voice 8: know to provide some little extra funding more than five thousand dollars to provide perhaps

[1:54:59] Voice 8: perhaps, some backup support or room for staff.

[1:55:06] Voice 8: My mind is certainly open to that, but on that, I would be frankly looking to staff to tell us

[1:55:14] Voice 8: in a practical way, you know, let's just be upfront about it. I mean, if you, if staff

[1:55:20] Voice 8: thinks it would be prudent and helpful to set aside, not five, but say $10,000, just to create

[1:55:25] Voice 8: a little extra slippage to make it easier for Director Marler and staff to actually

[1:55:32] Voice 8: get this work underway and ensure continuity, then I'd be in favor of that.

[1:55:38] Voice 8: But I think we really are in staff's hands there in terms of giving us the advice of

[1:55:41] Voice 8: whether they think that's something that's advisable or not.

[1:55:45] Voice 8: Thank you.

[1:55:47] Voice 11: Thank you for that, Trustee Bernardo.

[1:55:49] Voice 11: Very well put.

[1:55:51] Voice 11: Trustee Patrick, please go ahead.

[1:55:52] Voice 11: Good.

[1:55:55] Trustee Patrick: Under the executive committee, the policy review or renewal has been going on for

[1:56:01] Trustee Patrick: a long time. It was David's predecessor, I remember coming to executive committee last term

[1:56:07] Trustee Patrick: with prioritizing certain policies and getting to work on them. And it is an overwhelming task

[1:56:14] Trustee Patrick: because there are a lot of policies. I have a suggestion and one that might be helpful or

[1:56:20] Trustee Patrick: or something we should look at. We're supposed to be the governance committee, and the governance

[1:56:24] Trustee Patrick: committee of trying to help trust counsel in particular, we are a standing committee to trust

[1:56:29] Trustee Patrick: counsel, do their job better, the governance of their committee. At Whistler, they have a governance

[1:56:36] Trustee Patrick: manual. And there are a number of the policies or a subset of the policies that are more pertinent to

[1:56:46] Trustee Patrick: elements of direct governance of how we function and how we should function.

[1:56:53] Trustee Patrick: And for Whistler, they use their governance manual for two things. One, it's an orientation

[1:56:58] Trustee Patrick: manual for new counselors. And second, it's a reference manual. And it's a manual. It's got a

[1:57:04] Trustee Patrick: table of contents. You can find it. And it covers a vast number of our policies, but it organizes it

[1:57:12] Trustee Patrick: under governance. So I think this, like I said, this task is a bit of, it's like,

[1:57:22] Trustee Patrick: how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? Because that's what we've got. We've got a pile

[1:57:26] Trustee Patrick: of policies that have built over the years, and some of them are redundant and some are out of

[1:57:32] Trustee Patrick: date, that we should be looking at what would serve us better going forward. I think we should

[1:57:39] Trustee Patrick: should have a manual of governance. And to do that manual, it would make us choose what are

[1:57:45] Trustee Patrick: the topics that are of the highest priority that are directly related to the governance of Trust

[1:57:50] Trustee Patrick: Council, and that we end up with something that's better, more user-friendly, and actually helps

[1:57:57] Trustee Patrick: trustees learn their job, understand their job better, and be that reference going forward,

[1:58:02] Trustee Patrick: rather than policies that nobody goes and reads, and they're hard to find one individual policy

[1:58:08] Trustee Patrick: that's out there. So I would be more in favor of moving towards a governance manual and picking

[1:58:14] Trustee Patrick: the policies that need to go be restructured and put into the manual. Now, can our staff do that?

[1:58:21] Trustee Patrick: Yes, they'll have to be doing that work, but that might need some more help in writing and

[1:58:26] Trustee Patrick: organizing and make this into a more plain language, easier to understand and be useful.

[1:58:33] Trustee Patrick: Thank

[1:58:40] Voice 11: you, Trustee Patrick. Well, that sure changes things. I appreciate all that input, Trustee Patrick. Trustee Peterson, please go ahead.

[1:58:52] Voice 11: Yeah,

[1:58:55] Voice 10: thank you, Chair. Certainly there's 91 policies and there's an awful lot of policies. Trust Council and its committees alone, 23 policies. There's a lot here. I support the work. It needs to get done.

[1:59:19] Voice 10: And I like trustee Patrick's idea.

[1:59:22] Voice 10: I'm not sure how we get there.

[1:59:24] Voice 10: And of course, that's not what we're that's not what's in the business case today.

[1:59:31] Voice 10: And maybe that's the follow on from from doing this work.

[1:59:36] Voice 10: I'd love to love to talk more about that.

[1:59:38] Voice 10: But here we are today doing this.

[1:59:40] Voice 10: um so yeah i i i'm i think we should uh i'm in favor of advancing this business case and

[1:59:49] Voice 10: getting staff the direction to do the work thank you thank

[1:59:55] Voice 11: you for that trustee peterson

[1:59:56] Voice 11: trustee bernardo i see your hand up um you know

[2:00:00] Voice 11: somebody's prepared to make a motion to to move this forward um you know maybe that's something

[2:00:04] Voice 11: we've got to do and then uh have a conversation from there just uh for expedience uh sake but

[2:00:10] Voice 11: please go ahead trustee bernardo well

[2:00:12] Voice 8: i'd be happy to make a motion but i see other trustees

[2:00:15] Voice 8: have got their hands up and so i think it's probably prudent for us to air it out a bit more

[2:00:20] Voice 8: before we go down that direction but um i don't i don't think we have to sort of belabor this

[2:00:26] Voice 8: particular topic like we did the last one i just want to address the point that trustee patrick

[2:00:30] Voice 8: made about you know she's thinking that you know the governance manual is is a better way to go

[2:00:38] Voice 8: and focus on that and and amend policies as required to develop the policy manual

[2:00:43] Voice 8: you know i i um i'm having trouble with the idea because i i um getting to the getting to getting

[2:00:56] Voice 8: to the point where you could develop a manual and actually have a manual is going to be a kind of

[2:01:00] Voice 8: of iterative process where you go to the policies you look at the policy you say well that was kind

[2:01:05] Voice 8: of messed up you sort of fix it up and then you sort of start looking at what the hell that would

[2:01:09] Voice 8: work in a manual uh i'm not sure the difficulty i have with that is that in a sense and it's not

[2:01:17] Voice 8: a trivial sense every one of our policies is a governance instrument even the ones that seem

[2:01:25] Voice 8: kind of trivial and strange. Or, you know, the policies that we have that govern how we run our

[2:01:34] Voice 8: meetings, that's a governance issue. But also our policies that relate to finance, that's a

[2:01:38] Voice 8: governance issue. What is a policy? A policy is a decision by the Trust Council that this is the

[2:01:44] Voice 8: procedure by which we want to proceed going forward on this or that issue in the future.

[2:01:50] Voice 8: This is how we're going to run ourselves. So that's why I say it's not trivial to say that

[2:01:55] Voice 8: every one of the policies is relevant to governance. And that's why I think I like the way

[2:02:00] Voice 8: the approach that's recommended here, which is, let's leave it to staff to identify the more

[2:02:06] Voice 8: pressing ones that need to be looked at at this juncture from an operational point of view.

[2:02:13] Voice 8: Because they're actually better, the staff is better positioned to make that assessment than

[2:02:17] Voice 8: we are. And in the process of working with the staff, as it develops improvements to policies

[2:02:26] Voice 8: and chucking the ones that are pointless and improving the ones that are most urgent and

[2:02:34] Voice 8: getting to the more trivial ones later on, that is going to be a process where we get to work with

[2:02:39] Voice 8: the staff. And that's how we start developing the manual. And so I think we can get to where

[2:02:48] Voice 8: trustee patrick wants to get to but i think the way to do it is to follow the path that

[2:02:53] Voice 8: the staff has recommended thank you thank

[2:02:58] Voice 11: you for that trustee bernardo um trustee patrick clearly

[2:03:01] Voice 11: that's um you know the goal it seems like the ultimate goal to get um to where where you wanted

[2:03:08] Voice 11: to go there and and um it makes nothing but sense what you've posed um trustee stanford please go

[2:03:13] Voice 11: ahead yes

[2:03:15] Trustee Stamford: i would like to move the motion um on page 82 um if we can put it up oh there we are um

[2:03:28] Voice 11: yes please go ahead

[2:03:30] Voice 11: do

[2:03:31] Trustee Stamford: we need to there's been talk about advancing the like building the budget

[2:03:36] Trustee Stamford: a little bit does that need to go into this recommendation because it isn't clearly outlined

[2:03:40] Trustee Stamford: in the the amount is not in the recommendation does staff want to see a um so i will um put the

[2:03:58] Trustee Stamford: motion um that the governance committee approved the policy review business case and forward to

[2:04:06] Trustee Stamford: financial committee for inclusion for 25 26 fiscal budget year with an increased budget

[2:04:14] Trustee Stamford: to a total of $10,000 I'm

[2:04:21] Voice 9: happy to second the motion thank

[2:04:26] Voice 11: you any discussion on this I'm sure

[2:04:29] Voice 11: luck I'm I see your hand up oh

[2:04:32] Trustee Luckham: you know my hand is up because I had another remark and I'll keep

[2:04:35] Trustee Luckham: lower it but would look to you to acknowledge me after the voting

[2:04:41] Voice 11: got it okay the motion is

[2:04:45] Voice 11: on the table all in favor it

[2:04:59] Voice 3: looks like okay well

[2:05:03] Voice 11: i'm not opposed um looks like the motion carries

[2:05:09] Voice 3: um

[2:05:09] Voice 11: thank you uh everybody up so it's great um chair luckham please what did you have to say

[2:05:17] Trustee Luckham: well thank you i'm just picking up on um trustee patrick's um suggestion about a

[2:05:24] Trustee Luckham: policy manual. I, too, support this as a terrific idea. It begs the question, however,

[2:05:33] Trustee Luckham: how did Whistler develop that manual? Did they develop that internally? Do you know? Did they

[2:05:37] Trustee Luckham: develop it internally, or did they hire a consultant? Because that seems to me like

[2:05:41] Trustee Luckham: something that a consultant might be able to do, because it doesn't require any policy to be

[2:05:47] Trustee Luckham: written. It just requires an assemblage of the information. And given that staff are overburdened

[2:05:54] Trustee Luckham: with all the policy review work, having somebody put that together would be fantastic. And of

[2:05:58] Trustee Luckham: course, it isn't written in stone. It would be a continuous work in progress. Is there an answer

[2:06:06] Trustee Luckham: to that, Trustee Patrick, through the chair?

[2:06:11] Trustee Patrick: I don't know, but I will send you all a link to

[2:06:14] Trustee Patrick: their governance manual, and you can read and look through it and see how it's put together.

[2:06:18] Trustee Patrick: thank

[2:06:19] Trustee Luckham: you okay

[2:06:23] Voice 11: thank you for that everybody that was great some really good discussion there um

[2:06:27] Voice 11: i'm i'm assuming we're on to um 8.1 um their business um committee meeting dates

[2:06:34] Voice 11: is we have to hear you

[2:06:42] Voice 6: want me to review the report chair yes

[2:06:46] Voice 11: please thank you julia

[2:06:48] Voice 11: uh

[2:06:50] Voice 6: you're very welcome okay so staff have worked really hard to organize uh committee meeting dates

[2:06:57] Voice 6: across the organization making sure that there's no conflicts with local trust

[2:07:01] Voice 6: committees is of course trustees if they're in a local trust committee

[2:07:04] Voice 6: meeting are unavailable to attend a council meeting so we've coordinated

[2:07:09] Voice 6: those two things as well as executive committee meetings and of course trust

[2:07:13] Voice 6: council meetings and all of that work has resulted in the proposed governance

[2:07:18] Voice 6: committee meeting dates that are on page 89 of the agenda they were making a

[2:07:24] Voice 6: a transition in the current year, moving our meeting planning from a calendar year basis

[2:07:28] Voice 6: into a fiscal year basis. And so what that means in this year of transition is we have an extra

[2:07:34] Voice 6: meeting to plan for. So you see we're planning from January 2025 all the way to the end of January

[2:07:41] Voice 6: 2026. Governance Committee has proposed four meetings per 12-month period. That does align

[2:07:49] Voice 6: align with other council committees we're also proposing that the meeting start times and

[2:07:54] Voice 6: duration also align with other council committees for consistency there seems to be a bit of a

[2:08:01] Voice 6: history with this committee in particular of inconsistent days that meetings take place

[2:08:05] Voice 6: sometimes inconsistent times so for consistency with other council committees staff are proposing

[2:08:10] Voice 6: meetings from 10 till 3 5 hours for each meeting and we've also made sure that the meeting dates

[2:08:19] Voice 6: could properly align with executive committee agendas where they are reviewing material that's

[2:08:24] Voice 6: advancing to trust council so the work of governance committee can properly enter the

[2:08:29] Voice 6: flow of work that has to travel for trust council for approval which does also include the budget

[2:08:33] Voice 6: cycle meeting format is important as of course meeting in person requires financial dollars and

[2:08:40] Voice 6: meeting electronically does not and staff are suggesting that the committee continue with its

[2:08:44] Voice 6: practice of holding electronic meetings happy to take questions if there's any otherwise this

[2:08:49] Voice 6: This is a fairly administrative task.

[2:08:54] Voice 11: Thank you for all that, CEO Mobs.

[2:08:58] Voice 11: Is there any comments or questions?

[2:09:02] Voice 3: If

[2:09:04] Voice 11: not, I see Trustee Peterson.

[2:09:07] Voice 10: Go ahead.

[2:09:09] Voice 10: I am happy to make the motion, if that's acceptable, Chair.

[2:09:18] Voice 11: Yes, very much so.

[2:09:19] Voice 11: Thank you.

[2:09:20] Voice 10: I move that the Governance Committee adopt the proposed meeting date of January 29th

[2:09:25] Voice 10: for the remainder of the 2024-25 fiscal year

[2:09:28] Voice 10: and the proposed meeting dates of April 9th, August 13th,

[2:09:33] Voice 10: November 3rd, and January 28th

[2:09:37] Voice 10: for the 2025-26 fiscal year

[2:09:40] Voice 10: and that the Governance Committee request staff

[2:09:43] Voice 10: to schedule all adopted Governance Committee meeting dates

[2:09:46] Voice 10: as electronic meetings.

[2:09:51] Voice 11: Do we have a seconder for that motion?

[2:09:53] Voice 11: I'm assuming somebody's hand's waving.

[2:09:58] Voice 11: If not, I'll second the motion.

[2:10:03] Voice 11: Any discussion?

[2:10:05] Voice 11: I'm not seeing any hands.

[2:10:07] Voice 11: All in favor?

[2:10:14] Voice 11: Anonymous.

[2:10:15] Voice 11: We.

[2:10:16] Voice 11: Carries.

[2:10:18] Voice 11: Thank you kindly for that.

[2:10:24] Voice 11: Number 9.1, review of governance committee mandate discussion.

[2:10:31] Voice 11: Where are we with this?

[2:10:33] Voice 11: I'd love to hear from somebody.

[2:10:37] Voice 11: Thank you, CEO Moms.

[2:10:40] Voice 6: Yeah, you're welcome.

[2:10:41] Voice 6: This was added by Chair Getty.

[2:10:44] Voice 6: so she had proposed a committee review of its terms of reference at this meeting

[2:10:50] Voice 6: because it was an item specifically added by trustee Getty you may wish to defer it to the

[2:10:55] Voice 6: next meeting if not certainly director Marler is prepared to walk the committee through its

[2:11:01] Voice 6: terms of reference so there's common understanding and focus well

[2:11:08] Voice 11: I would love to hear what the

[2:11:09] Voice 11: appetite of the committee is I don't personally I'd be happy to defer this does anybody else have

[2:11:14] Voice 11: have other wishes trustee bernardo please go ahead uh

[2:11:22] Voice 8: yes i think in this instance you know

[2:11:26] Voice 8: discretion is probably the better part of valor i mean the matrix is a conception and a tool that

[2:11:35] Voice 8: trustee or chair getty likes to use and it's her kind of way of organizing our priorities

[2:11:41] Voice 8: i think we know what our terms of reference are i don't think we need to walk through that all

[2:11:45] Voice 8: all over again um it's really you know trustee getty put it forward because she wants us to

[2:11:52] Voice 8: discuss our priorities so i think the smart thing is to just kick this over until she has a chance

[2:11:57] Voice 8: to speak to it because i i don't think we're going to have as productive or frankly as useful

[2:12:03] Voice 8: well i don't think it's gonna be that productive unless we have her weighing in on it and frankly

[2:12:10] Voice 8: i think we ought to be respectful and let her take the lead on what the points that she wants

[2:12:16] Voice 8: to make before we start weighing in with our own you know more casual thoughts about it so i i would

[2:12:21] Voice 8: uh be in favor of uh tabling this until uh the next meeting okay

[2:12:29] Voice 11: thank you for that um i couldn't

[2:12:31] Voice 11: agree more um does anybody else anybody else like to weigh in i'm not seeing any movement in that

[2:12:38] Voice 11: regard so can we just by unanimous consent defer this until the next meeting or would you like a

[2:12:43] Voice 11: commotion staff i

[2:12:47] Voice 8: think if nobody objects you can just be kicked over okay

[2:12:51] Voice 11: great um well that's

[2:12:54] Voice 11: what's happening on to number 10 work program what can we hear about this

[2:13:05] Voice 6: so yeah so page 92

[2:13:09] Voice 6: this is the governance committee work program matrix um so this is standard you see this at

[2:13:14] Voice 6: all of your meetings there's been no changes since this was uh last before you uh just a

[2:13:18] Voice 6: reminder that we have added a legend to go along with the matrix so that there's sort of a visual

[2:13:23] Voice 6: understanding of what's being worked on what's completed what's yet to come um so this is the

[2:13:28] Voice 6: opportunity to make changes if there are any but there's plenty on there that is still in progress

[2:13:32] Voice 6: or not yet started so recommendation would not be to add anything new um

[2:13:39] Voice 11: thank you well well taken

[2:13:41] Voice 11: by myself um does anybody else uh have any comments on this trustee peterson yeah just a

[2:13:50] Voice 10: a question really um in terms of uh preparing a trust council session for a review of the

[2:13:57] Voice 10: governance report um co mobs i i am i remembering correctly that um you mentioned that this might

[2:14:05] Voice 10: be coming to december trust council or at least uh the first blush at it partially correct so

[2:14:14] Voice 6: there will be no material to review governance committee has recommended that trust council

[2:14:19] Voice 6: dedicate time to undertaking that exercise so the request of trust council in december will simply

[2:14:26] Voice 6: be you know governance committee recommends this would you like to take the recommendation

[2:14:29] Voice 6: and approve that that take place at a future council meeting that will be the extent of what's

[2:14:34] Voice 6: happening in december's trust council um hopefully uh i well my assumption will be trust council will

[2:14:40] Voice 6: be very excited to undertake that exercise and we can get it on a future meeting not too far in the

[2:14:46] Voice 6: the future great

[2:14:48] Voice 9: thank you thank

[2:14:55] Voice 11: you for that i don't see any other hands up um the next meeting

[2:14:59] Voice 11: you know if i'm not mistaken um we just um figured that out earlier um staff julia please go ahead

[2:15:08] Voice 11: uh

[2:15:11] Voice 6: yes i just wanted to turn our attention to page 93 of the agenda so we just looked at the

[2:15:17] Voice 6: matrix on page 92 page 93 is the active projects for governance committee this is the work program

[2:15:22] Voice 6: that will travel to Trust Council.

[2:15:25] Voice 6: So we'll need approval from the governance committee

[2:15:28] Voice 6: to send this forward.

[2:15:33] Voice 11: Can we approve this by unanimous consent?

[2:15:35] Voice 11: Is that, or we need a motion for this?

[2:15:38] Voice 9: No objection from me.

[2:15:42] Voice 6: We usually

[2:15:43] Voice 6: prefer motion if we could get one.

[2:15:47] Voice 10: I'm happy to make a motion.

[2:15:49] Voice 10: I move that governance committee

[2:15:54] Voice 10: forward its work program to Trust Council.

[2:15:58] Voice 10: all for approval

[2:16:01] Voice 9: thank you

[2:16:05] Voice 11: the motion seconded um all those in favor unanimous consent thank you

[2:16:22] Voice 11: very much closed meeting um or sorry the next meeting but we did we've already we've decided

[2:16:34] Voice 11: all this um julia i see your hand is still up sorry

[2:16:42] Voice 6: chair that was an error oh

[2:16:45] Voice 11: okay no problem

[2:16:47] Voice 11: at all um no apology necessary um so the next meeting though just to be clear we've we've come

[2:16:55] Voice 11: to that consensus with that um an earlier motion somebody else has a glaring comment there um

[2:17:03] Voice 11: closed meeting does anybody have the desire to go into a closed meeting seeing any eagerness

[2:17:14] Voice 11: us to go in that direction um is there a rise in report requested

[2:17:28] Voice 6: okay

[2:17:31] Voice 11: thank you for that well thank you everybody it was an honor to sit here and

[2:17:41] Voice 11: blunder through as chair of the governance committee but thanks for your patience

[2:17:45] Voice 11: really a pleasure to see all of you and um we'll call for adjournment great

[2:17:52] Trustee Luckham: good job jamie thank

[2:17:53] Trustee Luckham: Thank you

[2:17:53] Voice 11: very much, Jamie.

[2:17:56] Voice 11: Thank you very much.

[2:17:58] Voice 11: Thanks,

[2:18:01] Voice 10: everybody. See you next

[2:18:02] Voice 10: month. Good job there,

[2:18:04] Voice 10: Jamie.

[2:18:06] Voice 10: Hopping in the hot seat.

[2:18:09] Voice 11: Oh, yeah.